From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65933 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2005 20:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2005 20:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.62) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2005 20:11:42 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n9.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 20:11:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by mailer1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 20:11:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2005 20:11:40 -0000 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:11:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3286 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Announce: yes X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Getting This Group Started.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=IFQ6NE37KreXnlOp9rzDErMh1hxEgMuUQ9tmuYXAoB41lt04vAe_ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, Welcome, again, to everyone and thanks for joining the group. I have a lot of questions for you all and points for discussion, so I apologize if this becomes a bit long and rambley.... First of all, I should give you my reasons for starting this group. I wanted there to be a place to discuss The Sil and work on writing about it. While I love my general Tolkien communities--like Henneth Annun--my primary interest lies with The Sil, not LotR, and so it often seemed like I was sifting through posts and stories and colleagues to find others like myself. So I started SWG. I actually started it back in March (or something), but alas, real life interfered, and I didn't think it right to seek out members only to have to tell them, "I'm too busy right now; mind waiting?" Either way, I don't envision this being a group that *I* run. I want it to be a group for its members, that does what its members want. I hope not to lord over you all with senseless regulations, and if I do, you may feel free to tell me where to go and how to get there :) So, even though this is a "writer's workshop" group, I have done little in the way of figuring out how the workshop will actually work. Well, I wrote a few drafts but then figured it better to ask the members--who will actually use it--what they thought best. I am open to a variety of suggestions. We can use our LJ community solely, or we can discuss writing here also. I am willing to meet with group members "live" for discussions on YIM or AIM, if any of you would like that. Or we can do a combination of all of the above. Any thoughts on this? :D If any of you have writing that you would like to workshop now, I am willing to get the process started. Please email me privately so that we can work things out. (My email is dawnfelagund@comcast.net or you can send a message to the group owner--that's me!--through our Yahoo! homepage, at the bottom of this email.) Right now, I am in the process of finding Sil writers and attempting to connive them into joining the group. If you, likewise, have any Sil-writing friends, turn them in! :) Workshops will be more productive if we get more voices giving opinions and thoughts. In the meantime, though, the Yahoo! group exists for discussion and the LJ community for posting your writing...feel free to use them! Uli has kindly volunteered to serve as a co-mod for this group. So if I fall off the planet and have trouble climbing back up (not likely to happen, but you never know), then she has Powers that might assist you in any dilemmas! :) One of my grander goals for this project is to eventually create an archive for Silmarillion writing. However, as my Internet skills were nil until I discovered fan fiction and LiveJournal about a year ago, then I'm not sure this is a project I want to jump into unassisted! If there are any techie-types out there with experience in (or knowledge about!) designing webpages, and you are interested in helping me get this project started, then drop me a line. It seems that, at last, I am out of things to write. As this is generally only a *very* temporary condition, then I will sign off before any more ideas bite me! Have a great day, everyone, and best regards, Dawn Felagund From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2 Return-Path: X-Sender: maedhros@himring.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4494 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2005 22:38:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2005 22:38:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-01.servidoresdns.net) (82.223.190.24) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2005 22:38:20 -0000 Received: from sonyxg73w16mqg (unknown [82.223.64.36]) by smtp-01.servidoresdns.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8842535F6 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 00:38:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <009b01c593c5$0f965d00$0401a8c0@sonyxg73w16mqg> To: References: Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 00:38:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0098_01C593D5.D0370130" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2741.2600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2742.200 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Maedhros" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Getting This Group Started.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=176570930; y=JWrRhYaFr30mS6xGJrlv6-2Og3ZLRL6bXZ63yH3f6Hdj-yvPANksL1lSZU2FZXg X-Yahoo-Profile: maedhros_curufinwion ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C593D5.D0370130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am no "techie-type" (:D) but have desgined and build up a few websites (a= nd forums etc). Despite I couldn't build sites as FF or HASA or SoA or, at = least, I never tried (since, besides, it would require to have a lot of res= ources I don't think we would have), well, I am here. If I can help the gro= up, feel free to contact me :) M. ----- Original Message ----- From:= Dawn Felagund To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu= rsday, July 28, 2005 10:11 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Getting= This Group Started.... One of my grander goals for this project is to = eventually create an archive for Silmarillion writing. However, as my In= ternet skills were nil until I discovered fan fiction and LiveJournal ab= out a year ago, then I'm not sure this is a project I want to jump into = unassisted! If there are any techie-types out there with experience in (= or knowledge about!) designing webpages, and you are interested in he= lping me get this project started, then drop me a line. ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C593D5.D0370130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =

Well, t= he thing is that one of the sections of (the future) SWG Archives site wil= l be devoted to the Authors, so we would put there some info about them, w= ho are they, what they like to write about (or not), etc. Shall we say, som= e sort of introduction, the Authors' profiles. Of course, each Author= would choose what info s/he wants the rest know or not.=

 

<= SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: line; COLOR: = black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">So, = please... don=92t be shy and send me your card/profile? ;) Or I might sear= ch for that info on my own and, you know, f=EBanorians take badly to be ig= nored, just ask Dior ;)

 

If you ask me for a =93standard profile= =94 well, as I said, it depends of what the author wishes to let the world= know about him/her, there's no limit :) But, for example, something like = these fields? What do you think about?:

 <= /P>

Pen Name:

=

Fav chars:

<= P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify">Fav scenes:

Fav genres:

What I like to write about:

What I like to read about:

I don=92t write...

I don=92t read.= ..

Website:

Email (?):<= /o:p>

-> Links to the = works published in SWG

 

Personal fields are, as the word says, =93personal=94. If someone wants t= o add his/her RL name, age, status, job, hubby=92s name (ex-hubby=92s emai= l so we might spam him to die if need be? ;P), pets, name of the children.= .. Anything goes! :)

 

M.

&nbs= p;

Ps Ooops! Dawn, = you there? ;D Since Jenni mentioned your home comp was down... Check the s= ite when you have some time; I neglected it a bit these days but I am done= with the Welcome and the About sections :) Waiting for your approval :)

 

------=_NextPart_000_0090_01C5ACF0.84FA6CA0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 102 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44925 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2005 00:28:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2005 00:28:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc14.comcast.net) (204.127.202.59) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2005 00:28:40 -0000 Received: from 204.127.205.147 ([204.127.205.147]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005082923582501400ssgnpe>; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:58:25 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by 204.127.205.147; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:58:23 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:58:23 +0000 Message-Id: <082920052358.11868.4313A11F0006F64000002E5C22007621940B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_11868_1125359903_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Parody in SWG? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=0YT-dEtWivcyu1M1gCqFA8hvJihF0refZgu5mwt2tGoTuDen54In X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_11868_1125359903_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Maedhros wrote: > I still wonder if Parody is or not an acceptable genre for SWG :) Any genre that has to do with the Sil is acceptable! And now I am very intrigued to read it :) Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_11868_1125359903_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Maedhros wrote:
> I still wonder if Parody is or not an acceptable genre for SWG :)
 
Any genre that has to do with the Sil is acceptable!
 
And now I am very intrigued to read it :)
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund
~oOo~
 
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_11868_1125359903_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 103 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 536 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2005 01:15:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2005 01:15:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.202.56) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2005 01:15:04 -0000 Received: from 204.127.205.142 (sccrwbc66.asp.att.net[204.127.205.166]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20050830011401012000df5ne>; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 01:14:01 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by 204.127.205.142; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 01:13:57 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 01:13:57 +0000 Message-Id: <083020050113.4483.4313B2D30007F09E0000118322070210530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4483_1125364437_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Website needs Authors' info :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=MWZIxcTldH0hWB8eSTjLMDv_YfBTxn7ROxHGbdF2lgC7pafMSpfV X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4483_1125364437_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Maedhros wrote: > Ps Ooops! Dawn, you there? ;D Since Jenni mentioned your home comp was down... Check the site when you have some time; I neglected it a bit these days but I am done with the Welcome and the About sections :) Waiting for your approval :) I'm here! :D The Internet was fixed this afternoon. Technology, it seems, has been against me lately, with my work comp acting all funky this morning and then our cable box blew up tonight.... Grrr, I say.... I checked out the site--everything looks awesome! Some of the phraseology in the About section sounds a little odd since it was designed to be presented in the LJ, but that's only a matter of tweaking words; the spirit is perfect :) I guess as owner and mod I would be setting a poor example if I didn't send you an author profile, eh? ::sigh:: I will send mine tomorrow. (And anyone who wants their stuff archived on our site should follow my lead! ;D) It is uncanny to me how three days away from online life is like three weeks away from real life! Anyway, I'm glad to be back and hoping that my work comp behaves for me tomorrow. Good night, everyone (or morning, depending on where you are on this big ball of dirt :D), and talk to you later, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund ~oOo~ -------------- Original message -------------- Well, the thing is that one of the sections of (the future) SWG Archives site will be devoted to the Authors, so we would put there some info about them, who are they, what they like to write about (or not), etc. Shall we say, some sort of introduction, the Authors' profiles. Of course, each Author would choose what info s/he wants the rest know or not. So, please... don�t be shy and send me your card/profile? ;) Or I might search for that info on my own and, you know, f�anorians take badly to be ignored, just ask Dior ;) If you ask me for a �standard profile� well, as I said, it depends of what the author wishes to let the world know about him/her, there's no limit :) But, for example, something like these fields? What do you think about?: Pen Name: Fav chars: Fav scenes: Fav genres: What I like to write about: What I like to read about: I don�t write... I don�t read... Website: Email (?): -> Links to the works published in SWG Personal fields are, as the word says, �personal�. If someone wants to add his/her RL name, age, status, job, hubby�s name (ex-hubby�s email so we might spam him to die if need be? ;P), pets, name of the children... Anything goes! :) M. Ps Ooops! Dawn, you there? ;D Since Jenni mentioned your home comp was down... Check the site when you have some time; I neglected it a bit these days but I am done with the Welcome and the About sections :) Waiting for your approval :) YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4483_1125364437_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Maedhros wrote:
> Ps Ooops! Dawn, you there? ;D Since Jenni mentioned your home comp was down... Check the site when you have some time; I neglected it a bit these days but I am done with the Welcome and the About sections :) Waiting for your approval :)
 
I'm here! :D The Internet was fixed this afternoon. Technology, it seems, has been against me lately, with my work comp acting all funky this morning and then our cable box blew up tonight.... Grrr, I say....
 
I checked out the site--everything looks awesome! Some of the phraseology in the About section sounds a little odd since it was designed to be presented in the LJ, but that's only a matter of tweaking words; the spirit is perfect :)
 
I guess as owner and mod I would be setting a poor example if I didn't send you an author profile, eh? ::sigh:: I will send mine tomorrow. (And anyone who wants their stuff archived on our site should follow my lead! ;D)
 
It is uncanny to me how three days away from online life is like three weeks away from real life! Anyway, I'm glad to be back and hoping that my work comp behaves for me tomorrow. Good night, everyone (or morning, depending on where you are on this big ball of dirt :D), and talk to you later,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund
~oOo~
 
-------------- Original message --------------

Well, the thing is that one of the sections of (the future) SWG Archives site will be devoted to the Authors, so we would put there some info about them, who are they, what they like to write about (or not), etc. Shall we say, some sort of introduction, the Authors' profiles. Of course, each Author would choose what info s/he wants the rest know or not.

 

So, please... don�t be shy and send me your card/profile? ;) Or I might search for that info on my own and, you know, f�anorians take badly to be ignored, just ask Dior ;)

 

If you ask me for a �standard profile� well, as I said, it depends of what the author wishes to let the world know about him/her, there's no limit :) But, for example, something like these fields? What do you think about?:

 

Pen Name:

Fav chars:

Fav scenes:

Fav genres:

What I like to write about:

What I like to read about:

I don�t write...

I don�t read...

Website:

Email (?):

-> Links to the works published in SWG

 

Personal fields are, as the word says, �personal�. If someone wants to add his/her RL name, age, status, job, hubby�s name (ex-hubby�s email so we might spam him to die if need be? ;P), pets, name of the children... Anything goes! :)

 

M.

 

Ps Ooops! Dawn, you there? ;D Since Jenni mentioned your home comp was down... Check the site when you have some time; I neglected it a bit these days but I am done with the Welcome and the About sections :) Waiting for your approval :)

 

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4483_1125364437_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 104 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11692 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2005 03:12:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2005 03:12:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2005 03:12:12 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2005 03:12:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2005 03:12:12 -0000 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 03:12:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 298 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Looking for Finarfin Fics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=AjXboykZQaCx0rU6ErRlKRvdw5kj5ByExdKWjgImdqoh5f4syts X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Does anybody know where I can find some good Finarfin fics to read? I've read the ones at Open Scrolls and I think I've read all of the ones at Henneth Annun, too. I love Finarfin and there is preciuos little written about him. I could do with some good Earwen fics too. Can anybody help? Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 105 Return-Path: X-Sender: maedhros@himring.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38511 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2005 09:08:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2005 09:08:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-01.servidoresdns.net) (82.223.190.28) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2005 09:08:33 -0000 Received: from sonyxg73w16mqg (36.64.223.82.arsystel.com [82.223.64.36]) by smtp-01.servidoresdns.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AF7743F25 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:08:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001001c5ad42$63f19270$0401a8c0@sonyxg73w16mqg> To: References: Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:08:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5AD53.27264F00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2741.2600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2742.200 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Maedhros" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for Finarfin Fics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=176570930; y=ESmRIsOYnxF6x5z760hZNeuxhjcjNrJzBIMfsVEZ_tyBSyUJ1oaQvL7VeOSK8Gc X-Yahoo-Profile: maedhros_curufinwion ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5AD53.27264F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Did you try Fanfiction.net? I did a search for "Finarfin" (listing "Story b= y Summary) and I got 29 entries (dunno if you have read them all, though). = M. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5AD53.27264F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Hi,
I'm also a lurker here, as I haven't had the guts to post any of my Silm fic on the LJ yet.  I'm space_weavil on LJ. 
 
I've recently joined a Harry Potter archive that lets members upload their own fictions and chapters, and according to them, the software / template thing is called eFiction 2, if that is of any help?  I know nothing about HTML, PHP or CSS so I'm not a hell of  a lot of use there.
 
Like Brittany, my only real contribution I could offer would be graphics.  I'm also a PSP user and I've made a few banners and things for friends' stories, so if you needed help with something like that.
 
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Alassante
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Archive Site



DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote:
My only concern with accepting all stories is that I'm currently working on this alone and am afraid of not being able to keep up.
 
The options, then, as I see them (and feel free to add your ideas to the list):
-accept only SWG member's work for the time being, until we get something of a staff or Dawn learns how to code so people can add their own stories (this would be ideal but I'm still really new to web design and have NO IDEA how to do this; anyone have any clues? :^D <--hopeful grin)
-accept anyone's work, SWG or not.
-accept anyone's work, but SWG gets priority with non-members archived on a first come, first served basis after.
-accept all SWG member's stuff and non-member's stuff based on a merit/election/review proces s
-accept all SWG member's stuff and non-member's stuff as we can, closing the archive to new submissions should we develop a backlog and reopening once the backlog is cleared.
 
-accept all SWG member's stuff and non-member's stuff based on a merit/election/review process
 
I think that's the best idea personally. Maybe have a committee to reviews it. That way you have some control but its not only based on one person's thoughts and the work can be spread between a few people. Have standards/guidelines set that are pretty clear so there is little room to debate (such as no crossovers or whatever or require beta'd docs) But if you had a guideline such as no Mary Sues, thats a very hot topic and so many different opinions on what a MS is so that could cause conflicts. Just an example.
 
One thing I wonder - since there are people who write in other languages as well, would you have a foreign language section for them? I think that would be neat. Even if I didn't understand what they are saying, it would be cool to see other languages.
 
I think there is a software that can be used for uploading stories that they use at places like HASA. I saw it on Sweet Dreams Sanctuary. Maybe you could contact that Admin and ask? She seems super sweet and its a small site too.Lemme know if you want her details. Or actually Rhapsody has helped on their website as well. (Sorry to put you on the spot Rhaps!)
 
Furthermore, what's everyone's thoughts on organizing a chat/conference to discuss these issues in real-time? Are there any of you who would be willing to meet with me on YIM or AIM to talk about our site and upcoming plans for the group?
 
If you wish to volunteer or chat, you may email me at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or--of course--post to the group.
 
I know little about website programming but if you need some one to ooohhh and ahhhh over it, just hollar and I'm there. Or I can also help out with naked elf pics. LOL Can we have a section for that too? hehe


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Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-2132811117-1136577225=:9024-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 263 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60345 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 20:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 20:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 20:04:03 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0BDF748090 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2006 21:03:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 21:06:57 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <622466219.20060106210657@tlen.pl> To: Alassante In-Reply-To: <20060106194656.33867.qmail@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <23093859.20060106203205@tlen.pl> <20060106194656.33867.qmail@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=scV6QgZ4qqpUQ3F8GI47ozTzTEUW1vya-Bb097odUj9ZfZyTt_U X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante, A> I just realized you are the one who did Cousins!!! Squeeeeeeeee I really like that pic!! Oh no, I am not the one - Ivanneth made this masterpiece ^_^ You can find her art here - http://www.geocities.com/ivanneth63/index.html Perfect Feanorians, she is great :) Regards, Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 264 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19066 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 20:39:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 20:39:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 20:39:42 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87CDB137890 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2006 21:39:40 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 21:43:06 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <82453931.20060106214306@tlen.pl> To: Alassante In-Reply-To: <20060106195003.93943.qmail@web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <344776859.20060106203729@tlen.pl> <20060106195003.93943.qmail@web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=bxbk52ROzF4aHclvaCQWayqLTKb4_cmK9ai50c1DMWwVeTfBt9g X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante, A> Well my friend Binka is Polish and she'd probably love to read them! Then she might be interested visiting the Minas Tirith archive - you may pass her the url: http://fanfiki.tolkien.com.pl/ A few stories so far, but all really good in quality. I highly reccommend Kasiopea's stories (you all are probably already familiar with her art). Only general stuff is there so far and I don't expect it will change. A> Especially if it had anything with Beleg in it. Um, I think no Beleg, so far. But a lot Maedhros *looove* A> I am just fascinated with other languages and think it would be neat to see them there as well A> but hey, maybe I'm way off. One thing is for sure, if we have a moderated site, those would A> probably not be moderated! LOL I guess German, Spanish and Russian part might work, for there is a lot fics in these languages at ff.net, also in the Silmarillion part. In Polish is only one - mine. But as you said - no control. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 265 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22410 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 20:53:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 20:53:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.223) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 20:53:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n3.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 20:51:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by mailer2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 20:51:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 20:51:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 20:51:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <010520062142.25204.43BD92AD000840D20000627422070206530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=6vcNSrjOINP0IYAFU4KqItmnSnciMWgwv4yeKjDjR6JvS3ITctcUaEE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard > The options, then, as I see them (and feel free to add your ideas to < th= e list): > -accept only SWG member's work for the time being, until we get = > something of a staff or Dawn learns how to code so people can add < the= ir own stories (this would be ideal but I'm still really new to < web desi= gn and have NO IDEA how to do this; anyone have any clues? > :^D <--hopefu= l grin) < -accept anyone's work, SWG or not. >-accept anyone's work, but SW= G gets priority with non-members > archived on a first come, first served = basis after. >-accept all SWG member's stuff and non-member's stuff based o= n a > merit/election/review process > -accept all SWG member's stuff and n= on-member's stuff as we can, > closing the archive to new submissions shou= ld we develop a backlog > and reopening once the backlog is cleared. Oh l= ords, this is a huge deja-vu. Just some background, I am a member of a smal= l story archive called Sweet Dreams Sanctuary. We had a same discussion mon= ths ago, where some back-then members insisted on maintaining quality once = the thought got born to promote it more. But what is true quality? A minefi= eld if you ask me. In the end, I ended up musing about this with the site a= dmin and a kinda submitting-admin idea was born. Forgive me, my memory is a= sieve, but a pool of volunteers looks at new submissions and allow a new m= ember to submit a story twice. The persons who do this get these stories as= signed at random. Is it not really that good, beta assistance is offered, s= ince the aim is to *help* the author in improving, it is up to the author t= o say yes or no. It is a kind a subgoal of the group to help each other out= while growing into writing. We formulated the basic things a story will ne= ed and to that a volunteer (who said it will be available for beta-work) wi= ll uphold the stories. If the stories submitted meet up to that, the author= will be familiar with the quality the archive wants to promote and hopeful= ly wants to return the favour as well and sign up as a beta. Also, it never= becomes known to the authors, besides the head admins themselves, who are = part of this group in order to prevent people think that they know someone = personally and try to get their stories submitted as a personal favour. S= orry to be this long winded.. > Anyone who wants to volunteer their time a= nd/or skill to this > project, please let me know. Even if you have no exp= erience (and you < can't have much less than I do!), I appreciate the help.= I have experience as a webdesigner/webmistress with CMS's (like Phpnuke, = Mambo), (x)html and CCS. I do take on free lance assignments, but currently= cooking a baby has it's priority so I have no clients right now. This summ= er I build a website in mambo for a group of scifi & fantasy fans and I bui= ld my own story archive with mambo which has an elaborate back module syste= m that allows a lot with members (on several admin levels) and such. It mig= ht be the very very easy way out for you Dawn. Most often, I know my host p= rovides it, they have scripts for this that gives you a clean installation = of for example Mambo/PhpNuke this, from there a lot can happen. Just snag m= e and I can see what is possible. http://www.scribesoferiador.com/story/in= dex.php?option=3Dcom_ewriting&Itemid=3D42 Just an idea how it can look lik= e. I am aware that it is far from perfect right now, but it is just an idea= how it looks like (I haven't been able to do a proper maintenance lately).= The fun part from mambo/joomla is that you can insert so many modules (a f= orum or a story archive module)... The pain with mambo is that AOL hates i= t, but then again, what doesn't AOL like these days? But what is importan= t and I can't stress it enough is to think out a structure of the site firs= t. From there, any webdesigner can build something for you. > Furthermore,= what's everyone's thoughts on organizing a > chat/conference to discuss t= hese issues in real-time? Are there any > of you who would be willing to m= eet with me on YIM or AIM to talk > about our site and upcoming plans for = the group? You can always tackle me for a webdesigner's pov. I have years = of experience in this and I am willing to contribute... but I hope you can = understand that putting Tigger on this world gets the priority now. I am go= ing to be a full time mommy, but I can't predict how things will go. Rhap= sody (I hope I made any sense) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 266 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75902 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 20:54:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 20:54:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 20:54:33 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 20:53:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 20:53:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 20:53:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=zhNqyjzsnfOBurdyp_TzMt2w32_qVRat-d8fhrJzVy_DgbOKcrORVL8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Alina" wrote: > > > Hi! *tries to remain sitting normally while her baby bounce= s > > around eagerly inside her* > > That is so wonderfully cute! I hope = the last weeks of your pregnancy > will be smooth sailing and giving birth= will not be a terrible > ordeal. I hope so too, we are expecting a big = boy who most likely had ent draught ;) >> I am a complete stranger to Fin= arfin (so come on Dawn!! Where is >> the wealth of Finarfin?), but a very = avid and eager Maglor writer >> and Celegorm gets his fair share of attent= ion too. Which reminds me >> to see what I need to share regarding that goo= dness. I at least >> have a kinda & new Maglor vignette. > > I'm not very= familiar to Finarfin either and I've always kinda > ignored him in favor = of his elder, hawt(er) brothers. But Dawn has > made all of us think a lit= tle and pay some attention to this > character. I am just going to see w= hat is so special about him ;) > My true passion are the Feanorians. I lo= ve all of them and I'm > interested in anything that has something to do w= ith them. I'd love > to read your work on Maglor. As for absolute favorite= s, I'm proud to > admit that I'm a raving Feanor fangirl! Hehehee :) >= > I am not so active currently with 19 days on the calendar to go, > > bu= t welcome here oh Feanor lover ;). > > Thank you so much! > > I'll proba= bly not be the most active of members either, since I'll > be caught up in= exams and preparing for Uni graduation this summer, > but I will certainl= y try my best to learn as much as I can from > yourself and the other memb= ers. On what will you be graduating if I may ask? Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 267 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47571 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 20:57:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 20:57:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 20:57:10 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 20:56:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 20:56:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 20:56:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <010620061443.22573.43BE8214000D77DD0000582D22070215530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=p2SzgYlafQpnukSi4VV4qwEMES8LrKAjzOREPrFXVUNDMacHNIjyXVE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@c... wrote: >= > Thanks to everyone who has given thoughts and ideas on the archive > si= te so far! Of course, more opinions are always welcome, but I had > to thr= ow in my requisite two cents. ;) > > Mirien and Isabeau both mentioned cod= ing the site so that people > could add/update their own stories. This, I = agree, would be ideal > and is my goal eventually. However, I'm new at web= design, and while > I have a good grasp of (X)HTML and am learning CSS, th= is remains > beyond my scope of knowledge at this time. Does anyone know h= ow to > do this? Yes. With CMS's I mentioned earlier on for sure. What is= important though is that your host does allow php- and sql scripts. >As i= t stands now, I will have to do weekly site updates with the new >stories,= which will become tedious. It would be much easier to have >everyone ente= r their own stories, and I agree with you, Isabeau, that > the site will at= tract more users and visitors then. Yes, but my other suggestion is to tes= t it thoroughly before you take it online and let fellow SWG members play w= ith it. This is most certainly experience speaking here. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 268 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12799 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 21:02:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 21:02:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 21:02:51 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:01:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:01:53 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 21:01:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=RTovUuuMX4wC-Hxh78hH-CRa_cCzAaiyTV_4BsVEALpHqLQZ7c8dhNQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Oh and as for artwork... = or banners, I made so many banners for the MEFAs this year, it almost feels= like I got bummed out on it. But, you know if you tell me what you want to= see in a banner, I can make something... depending on time, energy... Rha= psody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 269 Return-Path: X-Sender: vanatuivana@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48024 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 23:04:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 23:04:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.224) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 23:04:27 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n4.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 23:02:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by mailer2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 23:02:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 23:02:35 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 23:02:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <010520062142.25204.43BD92AD000840D20000627422070206530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "vanatuivana" Subject: Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253019508; y=nymwb0MDzAVov6d9iweXLG-KzDfEk-rZnGovLG57OTAqvGVh_U4 X-Yahoo-Profile: vanatuivana Hi all, I'm delurkifying for this discussion. *waves* Dawn, I'm availabl= e to help out with anything you need. I know HTML on the very basic level = of being able to code links or page formatting, and I also know a bit (but = a very shaky and uncertain bit) of CSS. And I can always be hired as an un= skilled laborer for anything else. Another thing you mentioned was a colle= ction of Silm research and knowledge. Which would be amazing, actually, an= d I'd love to see something like a database or collection of essays on Silm= subjects, or a place with varying opinions on different points, like a hug= e point/counterpoint debate. :-D *envisions paradise* --Vana From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 270 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32211 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 23:08:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 23:08:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 23:08:59 -0000 Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.fe.22fbe62d (4552) for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:08:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:08:52 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1136588931" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=KEqerpY9dzTmzwKd_l3V0_lKOLVtUSOVQ9xADt4yz-ji7nmn2S9-0EZwZWE -------------------------------1136588931 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/6/2006 7:11:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jen@yellowspoon.co.uk writes: PS Hello Isabeau! How's Hethlin and the gorgeous Elrohir?? *grin* Very quiet and subdued right now, unfortunately. Isabeau -------------------------------1136588931 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 1/6/2006 7:11:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jen@yellowspoon.co.uk= writes:
In a message dated 1/6/2006 3:53:36 A= M Pacific Standard Time, ejackamack@aol.com writes:
Lurker chiming in here. 
Stop lurk= ing and get to work, lol.
 
People who know mor= e about this kind of thing than me and bring up crap I never thought of are= so annoying....
 
Lurker chiming in here. = ; The review process opens a whole can of worms which I'm not sure you've g= ot the manpower to deal with.  There seems to me to be a lot less garb= age writing in the Silmfic community in general than in LOTR.  I think= if you either limit it to members only, or have a complaint procedure like= we do at TFF, you'd be all right in terms of quality most of the time.
 
As far as accepting everything but closing the ar= chive when you've got a backlog, I don't think you should go there, or you'= ll get a situation like Library of Moria, where people regularly waited a m= onth or more to see their story posted and which is now a dead archive as f= ar as I'm concerned.  Code the site so people can put their own stuff = up.  I won't waste my time with a site that won't let me do that and I= stop reading at sites that update infrequently.
-------------------------------1136592705-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 272 Return-Path: X-Sender: GhettoElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34825 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 00:14:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 00:14:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 00:14:17 -0000 Received: from GhettoElleth@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.213.107ef03c (4238) for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:14:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <213.107ef03c.30f061d2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:14:10 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1136592850" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: ghettoelleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: I'm new around here... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=208054976; y=XuJMfN3mQs2KrJAI5d9S4V5KxNB7wfRhgcCDBdEDCy4Bn3gVjtsixZ8 X-Yahoo-Profile: ghettoellethla -------------------------------1136592850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/6/2006 4:08:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, alina_moi2004@yahoo.com writes: Anyhow, is there any chance of getting the name of that hot guy, so I can look him up on the net? 'Cause, you see, I'm pretty much a (pervy) Elf fancier and I'd like to drool a little while looking at that hawt thing too! :) Alassante and I are the resident purveyors of porn at OSA. If she won't cough up the long haired hotties sites, give me a buzz, I've got a link or two. ghettoelleth@aol.com Jes -------------------------------1136592850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/6/2006 4:08:31 A= M Pacific Standard Time, alina_moi2004@yahoo.com writes:
= Anyhow, is there any chance of
getting the name of t= hat hot guy, so I can look him up on the
net? 'Cause, you see, I'm pret= ty much a (pervy) Elf fancier and I'd
like to drool a little while look= ing at that hawt thing too! :)
Alassante and I are the re= sident purveyors of porn at OSA.  If she won't cough up the long haire= d hotties sites, give me a buzz, I've got a link or two. 
 = ;
 
Jes
-------------------------------1136592850-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 273 Return-Path: X-Sender: GhettoElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26008 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 00:17:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 00:17:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 00:17:46 -0000 Received: from GhettoElleth@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.ba.7fd6257d (4238) for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:17:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:17:35 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1136593055" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: ghettoelleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=208054976; y=WwG1ezn85PRwwiWF34ASXUNSZhTeMJ0MLb__XQdUv4TEBSfKAmhyvOo X-Yahoo-Profile: ghettoellethla -------------------------------1136593055 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/6/2006 6:44:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: Mirien and Isabeau both mentioned coding the site so that people could add/update their own stories. This, I agree, would be ideal and is my goal eventually. However, I'm new at web design, and while I have a good grasp of (X)HTML and am learning CSS, this remains beyond my scope of knowledge at this time. Does anyone know how to do this? As it stands now, I will have to do weekly site updates with the new stories, which will become tedious. It would be much easier to have everyone enter their own stories, and I agree with you, Isabeau, that the site will attract more users and visitors then. Dawn, I have a friend who is a programmer and owes me a favor. I'll try to cash in and see if he can give you some sort of write up on how you would go about doing this. Jesxxx -------------------------------1136593055 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/6/2006 6:44:38 A= M Pacific Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes:
Mirien and Isabeau both mentioned coding the site= so that people could add/update their own stories. This, I agree, would be= ideal and is my goal eventually. However, I'm new at web design, and while= I have a good grasp of (X)HTML and am learning CSS, this remains beyond my= scope of knowledge at this time. Does anyone know how to do this? As it st= ands now, I will have to do weekly site updates with the new stories, which= will become tedious. It would be much easier to have everyone enter their = own stories, and I agree with you, Isabeau, that the site will attract more= users and visitors then.
Dawn, I have a friend who=  is a programmer and owes me a favor.  I'll try to cash in and se= e if he can give you some sort of write up on how you would go about doing = this. 
 
Jesxxx
<= /HTML> -------------------------------1136593055-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 274 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79237 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 00:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 00:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.206.129) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 00:38:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 13219 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jan 2006 00:37:55 -0000 Message-ID: <20060107003755.13217.qmail@web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.148.130.47] by web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 16:37:55 PST Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:37:55 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <213.107ef03c.30f061d2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-966466979-1136594275=:10197" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Alassante Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: I'm new around here... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=dKHRodx4HCIgl_DBi9GkW7lPZ4v_PzPmB5z-e_QHuW-VhoeKfA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-966466979-1136594275=:10197 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I didn't want to volunteer your stash buddy! But I am selfish when it comes to my Elrohir and Curufin. Any other elf I can supply you with and if not me - I bet Ghetto could. ghettoelleth@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 1/6/2006 4:08:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, alina_moi2004@yahoo.com writes: Anyhow, is there any chance of getting the name of that hot guy, so I can look him up on the net? 'Cause, you see, I'm pretty much a (pervy) Elf fancier and I'd like to drool a little while looking at that hawt thing too! :) Alassante and I are the resident purveyors of porn at OSA. If she won't cough up the long haired hotties sites, give me a buzz, I've got a link or two. ghettoelleth@aol.com Jes --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- What great things could you accomplish if you knew you could not fail? --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-966466979-1136594275=:10197 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I didn't want to volunteer your stash buddy!  But I am selfish when it comes to my Elrohir and Curufin. Any other elf I can supply you with and if not me - I bet Ghetto could.

ghettoelleth@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 1/6/2006 4:08:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, alina_moi2004@yahoo.com writes:
Anyhow, is there any chance of
getting the name of that hot guy, so I can look him up on the
net? 'Cause, you see, I'm pretty much a (pervy) Elf fancier and I'd
like to drool a little while looking at that hawt thing too! :)
Alassante and I are the resident purveyors of porn at OSA.  If she won't cough up the long haired hotties sites, give me a buzz, I've got a link or two. 
 
 
Jes



What great things could you accomplish if you knew you could not fail?

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-966466979-1136594275=:10197-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 275 Return-Path: X-Sender: alina_moi2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84640 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 13:02:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 13:02:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53211.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.81) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 13:02:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 15009 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jan 2006 13:01:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20060107130149.15007.qmail@web53211.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.225.141.210] by web53211.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 05:01:49 PST Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 05:01:49 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1197623832-1136638909=:8846" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: alina nicoleta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Thanks for the welcome! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235462409; y=021CwkxbCN5iCpDJCjktTfkBXJfXdK4mp-T1cUejQxangoP8fp2f0A X-Yahoo-Profile: alina_moi2004 --0-1197623832-1136638909=:8846 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I hope so too, we are expecting a big boy who most likely had ent draught ;) He, he... Have you been strolling through Fangorn lately? I am just going to see what is so special about him ;) O, knowing Dawn and her writing, she will probably make me think of Finarfin as more then the one who turned back. Being a raving Feanorians fangurl, I don't have a very good oppinion of the Arafinwe side of the family (except Finrod who is a major hottie!). But I'm willing to find out more and give them some thought. On what will you be graduating if I may ask? Of course you may ask. I will be graduating University this summer and I'll be getting a degree in Management. Your question reminds me of a little joke I made with Dawn. I told her that I think two people live inside of me: an airhead, dreamy, Elf-loving writer and a down to Earth economist. :) As much as I can, I'll try to keep both sides of me happy and busy in the upcoming months. Best wishes, Alina. SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative writing program Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and fantasy --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-1197623832-1136638909=:8846 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I hope so too, we are expecting a big boy who most likely had ent draught ;)
He, he... Have you been strolling through Fangorn lately?

I am just going to see what is so special about him ;)

O, knowing Dawn and her writing, she will probably make me think of Finarfin as more then the one who turned back. Being a raving Feanorians fangurl, I don't have a very good oppinion of the Arafinwe side of the family (except Finrod who is a major hottie!). But I'm willing to find out more and give them some thought.
 
On what will you be graduating if I may ask?
 
Of course you may ask. I will be graduating University this summer and I'll be getting a degree in Management. Your question reminds me of a little joke I made with Dawn. I told her that I think two people live inside of me: an airhead, dreamy, Elf-loving writer and a down to Earth economist. :) As much as I can, I'll try to keep both sides of me happy and busy in the upcoming months.
 
Best wishes,
 
Alina.


Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-1197623832-1136638909=:8846-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 276 Return-Path: X-Sender: alina_moi2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70707 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 13:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 13:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53209.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.79) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 13:17:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 77416 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jan 2006 13:16:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20060107131616.77414.qmail@web53209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.225.141.210] by web53209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 05:16:16 PST Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 05:16:16 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20060107003755.13217.qmail@web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-846479245-1136639776=:75410" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: alina nicoleta Subject: *snifs* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235462409; y=-tCSvn89XHioTKxYVXyf2S2hzWEkqSonBsohvs5Fj_ZRU8jrKyBN4g X-Yahoo-Profile: alina_moi2004 --0-846479245-1136639776=:75410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I didn't want to volunteer your stash buddy! But I am selfish when it comes to my Elrohir and Curufin. Don't worry! *makes mental note to stay away from Elrohir also* I'm an Elladan fancier, myself. As for the stash... I've got my own little(pervy) collection of hawt Elves, raised along my Elf-loving years. I was just curious&I wanted to see a bigger pic of your fellow. Besides, I like my Elves less hunky and more...er...delicate. Any other elf I can supply you with and if not me - I bet Ghetto could. Ok, thanks for the tip. I'm off to pester her then! Alina. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos � Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we�ll bind it! --0-846479245-1136639776=:75410 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I didn't want to volunteer your stash buddy!  But I am selfish when it comes to my Elrohir and Curufin.
 
Don't worry!
 
*makes mental note to stay away from Elrohir also*
 
I'm an Elladan fancier, myself. As for the stash... I've got my own little(pervy) collection of hawt Elves, raised along my Elf-loving years. I was just curious&I wanted to see a bigger pic of your fellow. Besides, I like my Elves less hunky and more...er...delicate.
 
 
Any other elf I can supply you with and if not me - I bet Ghetto could.
 
Ok, thanks for the tip. I'm off to pester her then!

Alina.

Yahoo! Photos � Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and we�ll bind it! --0-846479245-1136639776=:75410-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 277 Return-Path: X-Sender: Juno@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71911 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 16:01:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 16:01:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 16:01:32 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jan 2006 16:01:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jan 2006 16:01:02 -0000 Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 16:01:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Exercise #13 is posted at the writers' workshop "There and Back Again"! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=199036170; y=pRvmiO1tcVDuEZBv2IjI2kxpG3MgU06-PKt8TNQXtH8DZn-dWQ X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic Hi all, Exercise #13 is posted at the writers' workshop "There and Back Ag= ain". The exercise is: critique =96 comment - concrit How to critique a= nd how to accept critique. Feedback is very important for every writer. Bu= t how to write a critique well, how to beta-read well, is just as difficult= as writing a story, maybe even more difficult. We feel that this is a very= important exercise, therefore please read the explanations post and the li= nked essays carefully! The exercise can be found here: http://www.livejour= nal.com/community/there_n_back/59883.html The explanations to go with it a= re here: http://www.livejournal.com/community/there_n_back/60078.html *** = But we have even more news than that exercise #13 is posted! Today "There= and Back Again" celebrates its first anniversary. We congratulate the wi= nners of last year's exercises: Jenni/Digdigil and Aranel Took completed a= ll exercises at "There and Back Again" 2005! Tied for second place are: Ed= oraslass and JunoMagic. For third place: Allie Meril and Bookwormauthor. T= hree cheers for our successful members! *** And if you want to celebrate = the first birthday of "There and Back Again" with us, we would like to invi= te you to today's anniversary Instant Drabbling session, on YIM and at the= lj community "Instant Drabblers Anonymous" (http://www.livejournal.com/use= rinfo.bml?user=3Dinsta_drabblers), this (American) afternoon and (European)= evening. Yours Aranel Took and JunoMagic ~~~*~~~ "There and Back Again= (and how to get there in the first place)" - a writers' workshop for Tolki= en fan fiction in LJ style: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3D= there_n_back From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 278 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16192 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 18:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 18:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.202.55) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 18:40:33 -0000 Received: from smailcenter43.comcast.net ([204.127.205.143]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006010718403201100ddii2e>; Sat, 7 Jan 2006 18:40:32 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter43.comcast.net; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 18:40:31 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 18:40:31 +0000 Message-Id: <010720061840.26399.43C00B1E000DF4990000671F22007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: My Apologies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=BvgN3HGVmh-Lj-tNpZ6-SaptFqPQtMraybGzciTxI2q9mSohfugu X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hello, everyone, It has been brought to my attention that our discussion about submission standards for our archive site has been bothersome to some. I do apologize to all of you if the many ideas flying around--some of which are openly contradictory to each other--has been in any way hurtful or offensive to anyone. I have purposefully refrained from offering my own opinions on this matter because I did not want to stifle or bias the ideas being shared, nor did I feel that the tone being taken at any time during these discussions was offensive or intended to be hurtful. However, if this has been anyone's perception, I apologize and renew my offer that I am available privately on email or IM at any time (if I have my AWAY message up, please interrupt me or send me an offline) to discuss your concerns. As many of you know, I am very new in the fandom in terms of becoming involved in groups, forums, and belonging to archives. Indeed, aside from the requisite membership to ff.net, I created SWG before I joined any other groups or archives. As a result, I do not know most of you, nor do I know what history might exist between members that may color perceptions of what is said or discussed here. Unfortunately, I have learned, misconception is very easy online, where we must attempt to convey our tone and emotions in black and white type, without reliance on tone of voice and body language the way we do in daily conversation or even on the telephone. I ask everyone to please be mindful when dashing off posts in haste, how easily one's intentions may be misread. Despite my short stay in this fandom, I have been involved now in three instances where a person's post--that I doubt was intended to be in any way insulting--was taken to be so simply because their tone seemed to convey disrespect rather than haste. Also, I ask that you bear in mind when reading replies to your posts or your stories that may seem disrespectful that the person may not have replied in a hurry, may not be as familiar with English as you are, or may have simply been in a cranky mood that day yet did not mean to disrespect you personally. In an instance where you feel that a member's reply to you has been too harsh, you need to contact me immediately, privately, through email or IM so that we may deal with the problem off-list. I do not know which of you are friends and may be comfortable replying sarcastically or harshly, nor do I know which of you may have had past problems, so--aside from blatantly disrespectful posts--I am leaving it up to each member's discretion to contact me if they feel the conversation has taken a wrong turn. I am aware that issues pertaining to "quality control" in fan fiction is a hot-button topic for many people, however, I felt this group mature and reasonable enough to handle it. As you all are the ones who will be using our website, if it conforms to my ideas alone of what is fandom paradise, that does not make us much of a "group" but more of dictatorship. Many--indeed most--of you have much more experience in this fandom than I do, and I had hoped that this experience would guide our group and our archive in a positive direction. So, the question remains: Can we handle this discussion? Or shall Uli and I make the decision as to how submissions to SWG will be handled alone, without member contribution? Truthfully, the latter option is much easier for me, but I do value everyone's opinions enough that I am carefully reading each of your posts, even if I am not replying right away to keep my own opinions from skewing the conversation or showing favoritism to any single member. Furthermore, it was also brought to me attention that my failure to mention individual names when expressing my gratitude for offers of assistance was amiss and may have been interpreted as rudeness. I should have mentioned in that same post--which was unfortunately dashed off in haste, perhaps serving to exemplify the dangers that this form of instantaneous conversation provides--that I will be contacting each of you who have volunteered individually to express my gratitude. However, I do have a fulltime job and cannot do this instantaneously, but if you are willing to wait a few days, trust that I will do so. In the meantime, I hope that all who have volunteered their time and skill know that I am extremely grateful for this, although I am forgoing the mention of individuals at this time lest I accidentally forget to mention a name and hurt someone's feelings. Please let me know if we are going to continue this conversation about the archive site. Once again, I am available for private discussion and will be contacting many of you personally in the next few days. I hope that you are all having a wonderful weekend. Best regards, as always, to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 279 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12081 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 18:59:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 18:59:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 18:59:45 -0000 Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.249.4daac05 (4529) for ; Sat, 7 Jan 2006 13:52:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <249.4daac05.30f167d2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 13:52:02 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1136659922" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=h-IaBkPoaIRY2w8zT1TAosM54UQD_Y7Ri8X1oGcrXcT2w5PKFChi_TZMN6Y -------------------------------1136659922 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/6/2006 10:44:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com writes: > Furthermore, what's everyone's thoughts on > organizing a chat/conference to discuss these issues > in real-time? Are there any of you who would be > willing to meet with me on YIM or AIM to talk about > our site and upcoming plans for the group? I'm llamasorceress on AIM. --viv And I'm Ejackamack on AIM. Isabeau -------------------------------1136659922 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 1/6/2006 10:44:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, spacellamaprincess@y= ahoo.com writes:
> Furthermore, what's= everyone's thoughts on
> organizing a chat/conference to discuss = these issues
> in real-time? Are there any of you who would be
= > willing to meet with me on YIM or AIM to talk about
> our sit= e and upcoming plans for the group?

I'm llamasorceress on AIM.
--viv
And I'm Ejackamac= k on AIM.
 
Isabeau
 -------------------------------1136659922-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 280 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51778 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 20:07:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 20:07:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 20:07:23 -0000 Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.28d.3bc31e4 (4529) for ; Sat, 7 Jan 2006 15:07:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <28d.3bc31e4.30f17968@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 15:07:04 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1136664424" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] My Apologies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=xWREnFe-WA70cg4t0Bm7RGLE_ymuVc9v6cQDgnsW2HZ3KdOQ9uDENP-eu_Q -------------------------------1136664424 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/7/2006 1:40:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: It has been brought to my attention that our discussion about submission standards for our archive site has been bothersome to some. I do apologize to all of you if the many ideas flying around--some of which are openly contradictory to each other--has been in any way hurtful or offensive to anyone. I've gone back through what's been said to date and can't find anything that was over the top, Dawn. I don't think you need to apologize. And if someone has a bone to pick with anything I've said, feel free to e-mail me. But I stand by what I said-I don't think the Silmfic fandom is as prone to fangurl disease as LOTR. I won't say I've never read a bad Silmfic, but the proportion of really good stuff to drek is much, much higher. The Silm is not a particularly accessible book for the reader-you have to really work at it to write Silmfic. I'm still waiting for my First Age muse to show up, but when I've got a yen for some good Tolkien fic, I tend to go read Silmfic, just because I'll have a better chance of getting what I want. And in fact, I find the Silmarillion easier reading now that I've read some good Silmfic, because I have a better idea of what is going on. So I don't think quality control is as much of an issue Silmficcers. It might be somewhat more important if you allowed fics from outside the group. I have friends who manage/write for archives in other fandoms, and some of those archives are updated regularly by the owners on a weekly basis. That's a hell of a lot of work-those people basically give up one evening a week or more to maintain that archive. It seems an unfair imposition to put upon anyone. This is supposed to be a hobby, and fun, and not an unpaid part-time job. That sort of situation leads to burn-out. And if an archive is not updated consistently, because its owners are burnt-out, it becomes irritating to both submitters and readers, who soon vote with their feet. I don't know that we will necessarily achieve that sort of volume, but it could happen-I don't see the Silmfic aspect of Tolkien fandom being affected by the drawdown now that the movies are over like LOTR is. The complaint process on TFF has been utilized once to date, and the complaint was about my fic Discretion. The grammar reason was checked, with no further explanation. When the complainant was contacted, he turned out to be Mongolian, and with such a fractured command of English that none of us are even sure he knew that he was complaining, and to this day we can't figure out what his email said, other than that he wanted to correspond with English writers to improve his English! So I don't feel inclined to count that one, but even if we did, it's one complaint so far for 491 stories by 132 different authors. And we let everyone post everything they want. I will also stand by what I said about the review process. Either you make reviewing voluntary, whereupon the burden of reviewing will fall upon those individuals willing to do the work, usually a small core group, and their preferences will dictate what the archive contains; or you make it mandatory as a requirement for including stories in the archive which will make some people resentful, and they will tend to rush through their required chores as quickly as possible. And the whole concept of someone passing judgment on someone else's work just invites trouble. There's no way to make a process that is by its nature subjective fair and objective to everyone. A review archive is also problematical for someone like me, who tends to write stories that are interconnected. If part of my work is passed, and part is not, then readers won't be getting the whole picture. Most of us here are connected with one archive or another, and we all shop around different archives enough to have some pretty strong ideas about what works for us and what doesn't. I don't think anyone has been disrespectful to date, but if we can't bring what we know and have experienced to the discussion, then we might just as well let Dawn and Uli set the archive up in whatever way seems best to them. Isabeau -------------------------------1136664424 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 1/7/2006 1:40:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.= net writes:
It has been brought to my att= ention that our discussion about submission standards for our archive si= te has been bothersome to some. I do apologize to all of you if the many= ideas flying around--some of which are openly contradictory to each oth= er--has been in any way hurtful or offensive to anyone.
I've gone back through what's been said to date an= d can't find anything that was over the top, Dawn.  I don't think you= need to apologize.  And if someone has a bone to pick with anything = I've said, feel free to e-mail me.  But I stand by what I said-I don'= t think the Silmfic fandom is as prone to fangurl disease as LOTR.  I= won't say I've never read a bad Silmfic, but the proportion of really goo= d stuff to drek is much, much higher.  The Silm is not a particularly= accessible book for the reader-you have to really work at it to write Sil= mfic.  I'm still waiting for my First Age muse to show up, but when I= 've got a yen for some good Tolkien fic, I tend to go read Silmfic, just b= ecause I'll have a better chance of getting what I want.  And in fact= , I find the Silmarillion easier reading now that I've read some good Silm= fic, because I have a better idea of what is going on.  So I don't th= ink quality control is as much of an issue Silmficcers.  It might be = somewhat more important if you allowed fics from outside the group.
=
 
I have friends who manage/write for archives in othe= r fandoms, and some of those archives are updated regularly by the ow= ners on a weekly basis.  That's a hell of a lot of work-those people = basically give up one evening a week or more to maintain that archive.&nbs= p; It seems an unfair imposition to put upon anyone.  This is suppose= d to be a hobby, and fun, and not an unpaid part-time job.  That sort= of situation leads to burn-out.  And if an archive is not updated co= nsistently, because its owners are burnt-out, it becomes irritating to bot= h submitters and readers, who soon vote with their feet.  I don't kno= w that we will necessarily achieve that sort of volume, but it could = happen-I don't see the Silmfic aspect of Tolkien fandom being affected by = the drawdown now that the movies are over like LOTR is.
 
The complaint process on TFF has been utilized once to date, and = the complaint was about my fic Discretion.  The grammar reason was ch= ecked, with no further explanation.  When the complainant was contact= ed, he turned out to be Mongolian, and with such a fractured command of En= glish that none of us are even sure he knew that he was complaining, and t= o this day we can't figure out what his email said, other than that he wan= ted to correspond with English writers to improve his English!  So I = don't feel inclined to count that one, but even if we did, it's one compla= int so far for 491 stories by 132 different authors.  And we let ever= yone post everything they want.
 
I will also st= and by what I said about the review process.  Either you make re= viewing voluntary, whereupon the burden of reviewing will fall upon those = individuals willing to do the work, usually a small core group, and their = preferences will dictate what the archive contains; or you make it mandato= ry as a requirement for including stories in the archive which will make s= ome people resentful, and they will tend to rush through their required ch= ores as quickly as possible.  And the whole concept of someone passin= g judgment on someone else's work just invites trouble.  There's no w= ay to make a process that is by its nature subjective fair and objective to= everyone.  A review archive is also problematical for someone l= ike me, who tends to write stories that are interconnected.  If part = of my work is passed, and part is not, then readers won't be getting the w= hole picture.
 
Most of us here are connected wi= th one archive or another, and we all shop around different archives enoug= h to have some pretty strong ideas about what works for us and what doesn'= t.  I don't think anyone has been disrespectful to date, but if we ca= n't bring what we know and have experienced to the discussion, then we mig= ht just as well let Dawn and Uli set the archive up in whatever = way seems best to them.
 
Isabeau
 -------------------------------1136664424-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 281 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84701 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 08:06:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 08:06:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.206.123) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 08:06:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 79511 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jan 2006 08:05:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20060108080528.79509.qmail@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.148.130.47] by web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 00:05:28 PST Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 00:05:28 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <010720061840.26399.43C00B1E000DF4990000671F22007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1653208571-1136707528=:78586" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Alassante Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] My Apologies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=iCMwP7zEifHLKUIChNgwWN3RRWQVGmKDbAmIuGxVqxjSykQwoA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1653208571-1136707528=:78586 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I had to put some thought into this one cause its been a rollercoaster week. As for the archive, Dawn, SWG is your baby. Being a mod on three groups I know how difficult this stuff is. Personally I feel grateful you asked for my opinion, I know its your site and you gotta do whats right for you. If everyone wants to do the archive one certain way and its the total opposite of what you want, is it going to make you happy? I think you should do what you think is right. After all, we all joined your group so obviously we liked something about the way your style - right? So I trust you to design the site with the same style and good sense you run the SWG yahoo group/LJ. And if you don't, we'll just call you names and throw rotten eggs at you. DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: Hello, everyone, It has been brought to my attention that our discussion about submission standards for our archive site has been bothersome to some. I do apologize to all of you if the many ideas flying around--some of which are openly contradictory to each other--has been in any way hurtful or offensive to anyone. I have purposefully refrained from offering my own opinions on this matter because I did not want to stifle or bias the ideas being shared, nor did I feel that the tone being taken at any time during these discussions was offensive or intended to be hurtful. However, if this has been anyone's perception, I apologize and renew my offer that I am available privately on email or IM at any time (if I have my AWAY message up, please interrupt me or send me an offline) to discuss your concerns. As many of you know, I am very new in the fandom in terms of becoming involved in groups, forums, and belonging to archives. Indeed, aside from the requisite membership to ff.net, I created SWG before I joined any other groups or archives. As a result, I do not know most of you, nor do I know what history might exist between members that may color perceptions of what is said or discussed here. Unfortunately, I have learned, misconception is very easy online, where we must attempt to convey our tone and emotions in black and white type, without reliance on tone of voice and body language the way we do in daily conversation or even on the telephone. I ask everyone to please be mindful when dashing off posts in haste, how easily one's intentions may be misread. Despite my short stay in this fandom, I have been involved now in three instances where a person's post--that I doubt was intended to be in any way insulting--was taken to be so simply because their tone seemed to convey disrespect rather than haste. Also, I ask that you bear in mind when reading replies to your posts or your stories that may seem disrespectful that the person may not have replied in a hurry, may not be as familiar with English as you are, or may have simply been in a cranky mood that day yet did not mean to disrespect you personally. In an instance where you feel that a member's reply to you has been too harsh, you need to contact me immediately, privately, through email or IM so that we may deal with the problem off-list. I do not know which of you are friends and may be comfortable replying sarcastically or harshly, nor do I know which of you may have had past problems, so--aside from blatantly disrespectful posts--I am leaving it up to each member's discretion to contact me if they feel the conversation has taken a wrong turn. I am aware that issues pertaining to "quality control" in fan fiction is a hot-button topic for many people, however, I felt this group mature and reasonable enough to handle it. As you all are the ones who will be using our website, if it conforms to my ideas alone of what is fandom paradise, that does not make us much of a "group" but more of dictatorship. Many--indeed most--of you have much more experience in this fandom than I do, and I had hoped that this experience would guide our group and our archive in a positive direction. So, the question remains: Can we handle this discussion? Or shall Uli and I make the decision as to how submissions to SWG will be handled alone, without member contribution? Truthfully, the latter option is much easier for me, but I do value everyone's opinions enough that I am carefully reading each of your posts, even if I am not replying right away to keep my own opinions from skewing the conversation or showing favoritism to any single member. Furthermore, it was also brought to me attention that my failure to mention individual names when expressing my gratitude for offers of assistance was amiss and may have been interpreted as rudeness. I should have mentioned in that same post--which was unfortunately dashed off in haste, perhaps serving to exemplify the dangers that this form of instantaneous conversation provides--that I will be contacting each of you who have volunteered individually to express my gratitude. However, I do have a fulltime job and cannot do this instantaneously, but if you are willing to wait a few days, trust that I will do so. In the meantime, I hope that all who have volunteered their time and skill know that I am extremely grateful for this, although I am forgoing the mention of individuals at this time lest I accidentally forget to mention a name and hurt someone's feelings. Please let me know if we are going to continue this conversation about the archive site. Once again, I am available for private discussion and will be contacting many of you personally in the next few days. I hope that you are all having a wonderful weekend. Best regards, as always, to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative writing program Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and fantasy --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- What great things could you accomplish if you knew you could not fail? --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-1653208571-1136707528=:78586 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I had to put some thought into this one cause its been a rollercoaster week.
 
As for the archive, Dawn, SWG is your baby. Being a mod on three groups I know how difficult this stuff is. Personally I feel grateful you asked for my opinion, I know its your site and you gotta do whats right for you. If everyone wants to do the archive one certain way and its the total opposite of what you want, is it going to make you happy? I think you should do what you think is right. After all, we all joined your group so obviously we liked something about the way your style - right? So I trust you to design the site with the same style and good sense you run the SWG yahoo group/LJ. And if you don't, we'll just call you names and throw rotten eggs at you.

DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote:
Hello, everyone,
It has been brought to my attention that our discussion about submission standards for our archive site has been bothersome to some. I do apologize to all of you if the many ideas flying around--some of which are openly contradictory to each other--has been in any way hurtful or offensive to anyone. I have purposefully refrained from offering my own opinions on this matter because I did not want to stifle or bias the ideas being shared, nor did I feel that the tone being taken at any time during these discussions was offensive or intended to be hurtful. However, if this has been anyone's perception, I apologize and renew my offer that I am available privately on email or IM at any time (if I have my AWAY message up, please interrupt me or send me an offline) to discuss your concerns.

As many of you know, I am very new in the fandom in terms of becoming involved in groups, forums, and belonging to archives. Indeed, aside from the requisite membership to ff.net, I created SWG before I joined any other groups or archives. As a result, I do not know most of you, nor do I know what history might exist between members that may color perceptions of what is said or discussed here. Unfortunately, I have learned, misconception is very easy online, where we must attempt to convey our tone and emotions in black and white type, without reliance on tone of voice and body language the way we do in daily conversation or even on the telephone. I ask everyone to please be mindful when dashing off posts in haste, how easily one's intentions may be misread. Despite my short stay in this fandom, I have been involved now in three instances where a person's post--that I doubt was intended to be in any way insulting--was taken to be so simply because their tone seemed to convey disrespect rather than haste.

Also, I ask that you bear in mind when reading replies to your posts or your stories that may seem disrespectful that the person may not have replied in a hurry, may not be as familiar with English as you are, or may have simply been in a cranky mood that day yet did not mean to disrespect you personally. In an instance where you feel that a member's reply to you has been too harsh, you need to contact me immediately, privately, through email or IM so that we may deal with the problem off-list. I do not know which of you are friends and may be comfortable replying sarcastically or harshly, nor do I know which of you may have had past problems, so--aside from blatantly disrespectful posts--I am leaving it up to each member's discretion to contact me if they feel the conversation has taken a wrong turn.

I am aware that issues pertaining to "quality control" in fan fiction is a hot-button topic for many people, however, I felt this group mature and reasonable enough to handle it. As you all are the ones who will be using our website, if it conforms to my ideas alone of what is fandom paradise, that does not make us much of a "group" but more of dictatorship. Many--indeed most--of you have much more experience in this fandom than I do, and I had hoped that this experience would guide our group and our archive in a positive direction.

So, the question remains: Can we handle this discussion? Or shall Uli and I make the decision as to how submissions to SWG will be handled alone, without member contribution? Truthfully, the latter option is much easier for me, but I do value everyone's opinions enough that I am carefully reading each of your posts, even if I am not replying right away to keep my own opinions from skewing the conversation or showing favoritism to any single member.

Furthermore, it was also brought to me attention that my failure to mention individual names when expressing my gratitude for offers of assistance was amiss and may have been interpreted as rudeness. I should have mentioned in that same post--which was unfortunately dashed off in haste, perhaps serving to exemplify the dangers that this form of instantaneous conversation provides--that I will be contacting each of you who have volunteered individually to express my gratitude. However, I do have a fulltime job and cannot do this instantaneously, but if you are willing to wait a few days, trust that I will do so. In the meantime, I hope that all who have volunteered their time and skill know that I am extremely grateful for this, although I am forgoing the mention of individuals at this time lest I accidentally forget to mention a name and hurt someone's feelings.

Please let me know if we are going to continue this conversation about the archive site. Once again, I am available for private discussion and will be contacting many of you personally in the next few days. I hope that you are all having a wonderful weekend.
Best regards, as always, to all,
Dawn Felagund

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~



What great things could you accomplish if you knew you could not fail?

Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-1653208571-1136707528=:78586-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 282 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14832 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 20:32:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 20:32:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.202.55) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 20:32:55 -0000 Received: from smailcenter74.comcast.net ([204.127.205.174]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006010820051501100dg5iie>; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 20:05:15 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter74.comcast.net; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:05:14 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:05:14 +0000 Message-Id: <010820062005.298.43C1707A000422570000012A22070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_298_1136750714_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Archive Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=kQzA_-Td3JyfbHD3uYpWCNLFFFn33l5L3sBIOfJoaMRQvzo1BcBp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_298_1136750714_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, everyone, Judging from the posts to the list and the posts I have received privately, I think it is fair and safe to assume that we can continue discussing the archive. A lot of you have made posts to which I want to personally reply, and I will be doing so over the next few days. I haven't had a lot of time online since my initial post on Wednesday afternoon/evening, so I hope to begin slowly answering questions and addressing ideas over the next couple of days. Thanks to everyone for your patience with this! The most popular ideas so far--to pare things down a bit--seem to be: 1) Having some form of review system that can address the fact that we are a small group, perhaps approving authors and granting free posting rights after. 2) Having a complaint system where anyone can post and inappropriate posts are addressed on an as-needed basis. 3) Unmoderated posting for all. If you have mentioned another idea and I have not listed it here, please know that this is unintentional, and I will amend later, once I have time to go through all of the posts again. Those of you who have volunteered will be hearing from me personally soon, and again, thank you! Thanks also to all who have participated in this conversation. Once again, if you have a problem on this list, it is important to contact me immediately and privately. All of the "drama" of this past day could have been avoided if this was done, I believe. My email is DawnFelagund@comcast.net, and I am DawnFelagund on YIM. Please don't hesitate to contact me at any time. Best regards to all of you, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_298_1136750714_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, everyone,
Judging from the posts to the list and the posts I have received privately, I think it is fair and safe to assume that we can continue discussing the archive.
 
A lot of you have made posts to which I want to personally reply, and I will be doing so over the next few days. I haven't had a lot of time online since my initial post on Wednesday afternoon/evening, so I hope to begin slowly answering questions and addressing ideas over the next couple of days. Thanks to everyone for your patience with this!
 
The most popular ideas so far--to pare things down a bit--seem to be:
 
1) Having some form of review system that can address the fact that we are a small group, perhaps approving authors and granting free posting rights after.
 
2) Having a complaint system where anyone can post and inappropriate posts are addressed on an as-needed basis.
 
3) Unmoderated posting for all.
 
If you have mentioned another idea and I have not listed it here, please know that this is unintentional, and I will amend later, once I have time to go through all of the posts again.
 
Those of you who have volunteered will be hearing from me personally soon, and again, thank you! Thanks also to all who have participated in this conversation.
 
Once again, if you have a problem on this list, it is important to contact me immediately and privately. All of the "drama" of this past day could have been avoided if this was done, I believe. My email is DawnFelagund@comcast.net, and I am DawnFelagund on YIM. Please don't hesitate to contact me at any time.
 
Best regards to all of you,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_298_1136750714_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 283 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73251 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 20:40:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 20:40:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.233) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 20:40:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n10.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2006 20:39:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2006 20:39:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2006 20:39:52 -0000 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:39:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060106190727.88766.qmail@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=OjG-kkMoMLMmF7eCq9sizRf2F4FQp2ULSvTBRjT7-_K0r6agNib0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante wrote: > One thing I wonder - since there are people who write in oth= er languages as well, would you have a foreign language section for them?= I think that would be neat. Even if I didn't understand what they are say= ing, it would be cool to see other languages. My opinion would certainly b= e that if people are willing to write stories in a language other than Eng= lish, then I'm happy to host those stories. Sirielle mentioned, I know, th= at there isn't much of an audience in some languages, but if people want t= o see their stuff posted in their native language, I agree, Al, that this = would be a cool thing. ;) > Or I can also help out with naked elf pics.= LOL Can we have a section for that too? hehe Also agree that this would= be a cool thing.... >:^D Regards, Dawn, slowly catching up :) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 284 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93546 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 20:48:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 20:48:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 20:48:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2006 20:48:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2006 20:48:25 -0000 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:48:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=mNjmlMFIz4uYIYvuzYgJUlfUnxxGooVbrFsNDAcx8_lLaLfANgKH X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > This summer I build a website in mambo for a group of= scifi > & fantasy fans and I build my own story archive with mambo which = has > an elaborate back module system that allows a lot with members (on > = several admin levels) and such. It might be the very very easy way out > f= or you Dawn. Easy sounds good at this point...as awful as that sounds to = me as I type it. :^/ But I don't have *any* experience in php but think it= would be lovely for people to be able to upload their own stories...but = as Sirielle pointed out, php can have holes, and I don't want any weirdos = hacking in and doing strange things to our characters. Not that I think th= at would happen...but I think everyone would feel better about sharing the= ir work on a secure site. Rambling...I know.... > Just an idea how it can= look like. I think your site is beautiful, Rhapsy, and wouldn't mind SWG= going along those lines at all! > You can always tackle me for a webdesi= gner's pov. I have years of > experience in this and I am willing to contri= bute... but I hope you > can understand that putting Tigger on this world g= ets the priority > now. I am going to be a full time mommy, but I can't pre= dict how > things will go. Of course. :) I hope you and Tigger are both do= ing well. I keep you (both) in my thoughts! Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 285 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84698 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 21:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 21:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 21:00:23 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2006 20:59:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2006 20:59:14 -0000 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:59:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=1YPeNTFwpXPTacJIJEe4rkot0SZcyg854d2HF_cUra-IiAh-Bwn3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "vanatuivana" wrote: > Another thing you mentioned was a collection of Silm resea= rch and > knowledge. Which would be amazing, actually, and I'd love to see= > something like a database or collection of essays on Silm subjects, or = > a place with varying opinions on different points, like a huge > point/co= unterpoint debate. :-D *envisions paradise* Fanged Geranium did some mar= velous character research over at the Yahoo group a few months ago, and I = hope to at least have that at our archive. To start. Like you, Vana, I thi= nk my imagination tends to run wild on this notion, and I have some pretty= wild and crazy ideas for things we might eventually do! Actually, I had h= oped to bring up to the group next about research and maybe having a forum= for discussions...so hopefully, we'll be addressing these things in the = weeks to come! Dawn Felagnd From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 286 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40948 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 10:10:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 10:10:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 10:10:23 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 10:08:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 10:08:28 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 10:08:27 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=SjBUHKw4p7s3ReHO9prdCHhg3Oj9HcxN4ApaFH7tUhCTdgPCXN6bjXk X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "vana= tuivana" > wrote: >> Another thing you mentioned was a = collection of Silm research and >> knowledge. Which would be amazing, actu= ally, and I'd love to see >> something like a database or collection of ess= ays on Silm >> subjects, or a place with varying opinions on different poi= nts, >> like a huge point/counterpoint debate. :-D *envisions paradise* = > > Fanged Geranium did some marvelous character research over at the > Y= ahoo group a few months ago, and I hope to at least have that at > our arc= hive. To start. Like you, Vana, I think my imagination tends > to run wild= on this notion, and I have some pretty wild and crazy > ideas for things = we might eventually do! Actually, I had hoped to > bring up to the group n= ext about research and maybe having a forum > for discussions...so hopeful= ly, we'll be addressing these things in > the weeks to come! Oi, you are = venturing on dangerous grounds here. I am not so sure if the Tolkien Estate= would allow material from HOME or any other source being blatantly copied = for a database. That is my issue with 'resource' sections on archives becau= se basically even if you put so much work in copying from the books, it rem= ains a pure violation of copyright. They can argue that without using the m= aterial before asking permission to do so will damage their sales of their = own books. Because a fan fic writer will think: well the info is up there s= o why bother buying the books... And they do have a valid point there. Even= if you claim fair use and live up to that, they won't be very happy pups a= nd unfortunately will go after you (yes this happens, they are quite on the= prowl). This is the whole reason why I would never ever support a resourc= e section like that. Or even volunteer for it. Don't get me wrong please, = when I exchange material with someone else and I am certain it won't be pas= sed on to many other hands (like with pictures and such) I will do it becau= se it remains private and will be guaranteed it will remain private. If not= , you simply won't get it from me. Publishing it on a website and putting i= t out there to be used for all is a complete different matter and it should= be given thought before you actually consider it. In case you wonder, I g= raduated from college on copyright and information systems. I am not a lawy= er, but in my line of profession I worked daily with copyright and fair use= to be sure my company would pay enough to comply to regulations when publi= shing research (even non-profit companies have to pay loads). It's complex = material, that's for sure. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 287 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15361 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 10:35:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 10:35:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 10:35:33 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 10:35:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 10:35:25 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 10:35:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=y3C-Ji33oRznakH7gVXUnHCqOi-BjrLf0eMLl6PJev-aIHFip1eqOkA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhap= sody_the_bard" > wrote: > > This summer I build a websit= e in mambo for a group of scifi > > & fantasy fans and I build my own story= archive with mambo which > has > > an elaborate back module system that a= llows a lot with members (on > > several admin levels) and such. It might b= e the very very easy way > out > > for you Dawn. > > Easy sounds good at= this point...as awful as that sounds to me as I > type it. :^/ But I don'= t have *any* experience in php but think it > would be lovely for people t= o be able to upload their own > stories...but as Sirielle pointed out, php= can have holes, and I > don't want any weirdos hacking in and doing stran= ge things to our > characters. Not that I think that would happen...but I = think > everyone would feel better about sharing their work on a secure >= site. PHP nuke or Phpp boards, yes those are very vulnerable. Still they = both are so nice to play around with :) Mambo/Joomla is based on Open Sourc= e and not that exciting to be hacked, I mean it's like telling folks 'hey t= his is how the key looks like, got nothing to hide, so make my day'. But ba= sically Dawn, everything you will do can never be protected or shielded eno= ugh from hackers. The more tightly you try to secure it, the more people wi= ll try to break in. Secure sites are a relative matter. If you want utter s= ecurity, just don't publish online. There is no such thing as privacy on th= e Internet. Maybe this sounds very cynical, but i don't think you ever get= it completely secure. > > You can always tackle me for a webdesigner's po= v. I have years of > > experience in this and I am willing to contribute...= but I hope > > you can understand that putting Tigger on this world gets = the > > priority now. I am going to be a full time mommy, but I can't > >= predict how things will go. > > Of course. :) I hope you and Tigger are b= oth doing well. I keep you > (both) in my thoughts! We're doing fine, jus= t a bit worn down at the moment. I had a very rough week and it will take s= ome time to regain my footing again. Your AMC chapters... and works of oth= ers for that matter keep me going. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 288 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97194 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 18:45:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 18:45:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.202.56) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 18:45:56 -0000 Received: from smailcenter61.comcast.net ([204.127.205.161]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006010918060601200jos9je>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:06:06 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter61.comcast.net; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:06:05 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:06:05 +0000 Message-Id: <010920061806.13271.43C2A60D00070BB1000033D722058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13271_1136829965_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=-gBzo_55n50KipXN8RdtaHt23KJqy1zv_gAGLQjJ74cENQfph08J X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13271_1136829965_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rhapsody wrote: > Oi, you are venturing on dangerous grounds here. I am not so sure if the Tolkien Estate would allow material from HOME or any other source being blatantly copied for a database. Hmm...good point. Copyright issues are a place I really don't want to go...I'm too poor to be sued, that's for sure! But the possibility of a discussion forum still remains, I think. Do you know how sites like Encyclopedia of Arda pertain to this? Do they have permission from the estate, are they likewise in risk, or is it a different issue entirely, as they are more research articles than listing of facts? The reason I ask is because of the possibility, as Vana suggested, of research essays...but before I would ever undertake such a thing or ask people to help, I'd like to make sure that it's safe ground to walk! > If you want utter security, just don't publish online. There is no such thing as privacy on the Internet. I suppose that, like so many things, the key is to find the balance between security--where any idiot could meddle with someone's work--and practicality. For example, I am funding this website myself and (as I mentioned above), I'm far from being an affluent person, so expensive software is a bit out of the question, for example. As are really complicated codes that I can't maintain more or less by myself...unless I get a masochistic expert willing to help me out. ;) I'm delighted to see the number of people on this list who seem to have some knowledge of this stuff, so that makes finding some sort of balance easier. > We're doing fine, just a bit worn down at the moment. I had a very rough week and it will take some time to regain my footing again. > Your AMC chapters... and works of others for that matter keep me going. Bad weeks are going around, it seems. :) Well, we're in a new one now, so let's hope that it's better for all! And you now have less than a day to wait for AMC.... ;) Best wishes to all! Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13271_1136829965_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Rhapsody wrote:
> Oi, you are venturing on dangerous grounds here. I am not so sure if the Tolkien Estate would allow material from HOME or any other source being blatantly copied for a database.
 
Hmm...good point. Copyright issues are a place I really don't want to go...I'm too poor to be sued, that's for sure! But the possibility of a discussion forum still remains, I think.
 
Do you know how sites like Encyclopedia of Arda pertain to this? Do they have permission from the estate, are they likewise in risk, or is it a different issue entirely, as they are more research articles than listing of facts? The reason I ask is because of the possibility, as Vana suggested, of research essays...but before I would ever undertake such a thing or ask people to help, I'd like to make sure that it's safe ground to walk!
 
> If you want utter security, just don't publish online. There is no such thing as privacy on the Internet.
 
I suppose that, like so many things, the key is to find the balance between security--where any idiot could meddle with someone's work--and practicality. For example, I am funding this website myself and (as I mentioned above), I'm far from being an affluent person, so expensive software is a bit out of the question, for example. As are really complicated codes that I can't maintain more or less by myself...unless I get a masochistic expert willing to help me out. ;) I'm delighted to see the number of people on this list who seem to have some knowledge of this stuff, so that makes finding some sort of balance easier.
 
> We're doing fine, just a bit worn down at the moment. I had a very rough week and it will take some time to regain my footing again.

> Your AMC chapters... and works of others for that matter keep me going.
 
Bad weeks are going around, it seems. :) Well, we're in a new one now, so let's hope that it's better for all!
 
And you now have less than a day to wait for AMC.... ;)
 
Best wishes to all!
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13271_1136829965_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 289 Return-Path: X-Sender: fanged_geranium@hotmail.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1455 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 19:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 19:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 19:03:29 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 19:03:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 19:03:24 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 19:03:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <010920061806.13271.43C2A60D00070BB1000033D722058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "fanged_geranium" Subject: Re: Archive Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235039109; y=U8_il8obI5EzaMNkTVGOIMhvOXLibv-USW3dn2bpsu3saQ15EfkkXPbr X-Yahoo-Profile: fanged_geranium Copyright shouldn't be a problem, since no more than a few consecutive par= agraphs are quoted and the source is referenced, but I agree with Rhapsody= that it's worth checking. (Also, in this particular case it's all from t= he Silm, which I would suppose every member of SilWritersGuild owns= , rather than HoMe! Not that that should make any difference, of course.)= --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@c... wrote= : > > Rhapsody wrote: > > Oi, you are venturing on dangerous grounds here. = I am not so sure if the Tolkien Estate would allow material from HOME or a= ny other source being blatantly copied for a database. > > Hmm...good poi= nt. Copyright issues are a place I really don't want to go...I'm too poor = to be sued, that's for sure! But the possibility of a discussion forum sti= ll remains, I think. > > Do you know how sites like Encyclopedia of Arda p= ertain to this? Do they have permission from the estate, are they likewise= in risk, or is it a different issue entirely, as they are more research a= rticles than listing of facts? The reason I ask is because of the possibi= lity, as Vana suggested, of research essays...but before I would ever unde= rtake such a thing or ask people to help, I'd like to make sure that it's = safe ground to walk! > > > If you want utter security, just don't publish = online. There is no such thing as privacy on the Internet. > > I suppose = that, like so many things, the key is to find the balance between security= --where any idiot could meddle with someone's work-- and practicality. For = example, I am funding this website myself and (as I mentioned above), I'm = far from being an affluent person, so expensive software is a bit out of t= he question, for example. As are really complicated codes that I can't mai= ntain more or less by myself...unless I get a masochistic expert willing t= o help me out. ;) I'm delighted to see the number of people on this list w= ho seem to have some knowledge of this stuff, so that makes finding some s= ort of balance easier. > > > We're doing fine, just a bit worn down at th= e moment. I had a very rough week and it will take some time to regain my = footing again. > > > Your AMC chapters... and works of others for that mat= ter keep me going. > > Bad weeks are going around, it seems. :) Well, we'= re in a new one now, so let's hope that it's better for all! > > And you = now have less than a day to wait for AMC.... ;) > > Best wishes to all! > = Dawn Felagund > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > Read my stories or visit = me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund = > > Are you a relentless First-Ager? > Check out the Silmarillion Writer= s' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild= . > ~oOo~ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 290 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladypear@blazemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23167 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 16:10:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 16:10:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.223) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 16:10:35 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n3.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:07:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:07:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:07:57 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:07:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <010920061806.13271.43C2A60D00070BB1000033D722058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "vanatuivana" Subject: Re: Archive Site (copyright issues) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253685802; y=WPe8VizB23c8gzUeCXMXPu7LSzPdxkkxnA8a_tur8gT7RRxSq_4 X-Yahoo-Profile: vanatuivana --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@c... wrote: >= > Rhapsody wrote: > > Oi, you are venturing on dangerous grounds here. I a= m not so sure if the Tolkien Estate would allow material from HOME or any o= ther source being blatantly copied for a database. > > Hmm...good point. C= opyright issues are a place I really don't want to go...I'm too poor to be = sued, that's for sure! But the possibility of a discussion forum still rema= ins, I think. > Parma Eruseen recently published a collection of the essa= ys found on their site in book form, and they maintain a collection of the = essays online for all to see. In such a case, under US law, it's only requ= ired that each essay cites its sources. As far as putting material from H= oME or the Silm online, that's probably not covered by fair use laws. Essa= ys and commentary *incorporating* quotes from the sources, however, are fai= r game, again as long as the works are cited. So I don't think it would be= unreasonable to possibly have a collection of essays meant to help us writ= ers sort through the myriad branches of Tolkien-information; as long as the= re's the interest for it, of course. What do you all think? --Vana From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 291 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84266 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 17:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 17:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52515.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.198) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 17:25:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 58976 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jan 2006 17:25:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20060110172508.58974.qmail@web52515.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.130.18] by web52515.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:25:08 PST Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:25:08 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Archive Site (copyright issues) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=kbe264FgukRU2kT6Xl1cl_ywSS68-ltBjDDUOV9UUrBJLO2qd8-Aq6SNPhzd X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess I work for a publishing company, and our rule of thumb is that if a quote exceeds 300 words, we ask permission from the copyright holder to reprint. Ususally they give that permission without charge. I suspect that the length of quotation can be longer with academic-type (not for profit) writings. viv --- vanatuivana wrote: > As far as putting material from HoME or the Silm > online, that's > probably not covered by fair use laws. Essays and > commentary > *incorporating* quotes from the sources, however, > are fair game, again > as long as the works are cited. So I don't think it > would be > unreasonable to possibly have a collection of essays > meant to help us > writers sort through the myriad branches of > Tolkien-information; as > long as there's the interest for it, of course. > > What do you all think? > > --Vana http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 292 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19323 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 23:00:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 23:00:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 23:00:47 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 23:00:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 23:00:40 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:00:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060110172508.58974.qmail@web52515.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Archive Site (copyright issues) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=rD52hlOArEc2khlwxbDMrIfq8td2JIzTM2R0rzyn_oTDCaKuq4oV8tY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Viv wrote: > > I work for a publishing company, and our rule of thumb > is= that if a quote exceeds 300 words, we ask > permission from the copyright = holder to reprint. > Ususally they give that permission without charge. I >= suspect that the length of quotation can be longer > with academic-type (n= ot for profit) writings. I've been doing enough calculating for readers (a= s in a book with a collection articles kinda thing, but with original mate= rial as well) or for scientific papers, articles and even news items, that= in the scientific world it is about the same, and this is Dutch/ European= copyright law. And 300 words... you approach that fast. (LOL, I am so gl= ad to be on maternity leave because imagine a lot of rolling eyes when a r= esearcher comes to you with shining eyes and says, hey I am going to publi= sh an article reader, but I need to have the copyright thing checked for a= ll the references, quotations =E1nd images used). The thing is, essays I = don't mind, really, it is an author *interpretating things* of how Tolkien= might have meant something. Parma Endermion (sp? sorry it's late and I ha= d a broken night with lots of pain) is a collection of essays from Michael= Martinez and he simply states that he is just merely interpretating thing= s his way and can't be seen (and neither does he want others to see that) = as canon. But for example when I make a 32 page profile of a character fr= om Tolkien's world (pure canon material) like I did very recently for one= of my authors, in the back of my mind I know I am violating the copyright= law, despite the fact that the author and I have all the volumes of HOME,= the Silm, UT and so on ourselves (so it is for purely private use, so we = aren't breaking the law LOL). No, before anyone replies: I am not passing = on this file to someone else, neither will I place it online, because if I= do, I am violating it... (and I do expect from every author I do this kin= d of research for that they never pass it on to someone else). Now if I ca= n come up with 32 pages (15908 words, I just checked) about one Silm (kind= a minor) character alone, can you imagine how easy it is to cross this li= ne if you start a database on a character with material from the books? My= mind just starts to reel when I think of doing a Feanor profile LOL. I k= new also that the ency of arda question would come, they do also get their= material printed on cd, and I checked their FAQ when I posted the message= yesterday, when they state all rights reserved, you can be certain of it = that they have a legal agreement with the Tolkien Estate. So enough rambl= ing, I have a Curufin to write. If the baby stops kicking me so hard that = is. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 293 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33264 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2006 18:25:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2006 18:25:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2006 18:25:43 -0000 Received: from smailcenter57.comcast.net ([204.127.205.157]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006011117222301100dc94pe>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:22:23 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter57.comcast.net; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:22:23 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:22:23 +0000 Message-Id: <011120061722.5329.43C53ECE000A3948000014D122058860140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5329_1137000143_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: I Will Be Gone for a Few Days X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=Fa-XH99qHkikVzWz492O6CB6SZYfRChq8pKIiRXaICJWLMmmxlh4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5329_1137000143_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, everyone, I just wanted to let everyone know that I will be gone for a few days. My grandmother died yesterday, and so I will be absent through the weekend to spend time with my family. I will probably be checking in occasionally but will not reply to emails or offlines until next week except in legitimate emergencies. I thank you all for your understanding and leave you with my best regards, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5329_1137000143_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, everyone,
I just wanted to let everyone know that I will be gone for a few days. My grandmother died yesterday, and so I will be absent through the weekend to spend time with my family.
 
I will probably be checking in occasionally but will not reply to emails or offlines until next week except in legitimate emergencies.
 
I thank you all for your understanding and leave you with my best regards,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5329_1137000143_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 294 Return-Path: X-Sender: fanged_geranium@hotmail.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50768 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2006 21:47:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2006 21:47:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.221) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2006 21:47:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2006 21:46:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2006 21:46:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2006 21:46:27 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:46:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "fanged_geranium" Subject: Re: Archive Site (copyright issues) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235039109; y=a2e05A3rh0RaB7X0l_Q5iq-sQNs9rvt5yOCkSkmfLUvvnIKqKxtXkWmx X-Yahoo-Profile: fanged_geranium I'm being rather slow at the moment, which is why it's only just occurred = to me that the entire site will be in violation of copyright, since it wil= l contain fanfic! --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rh= apsody_the_bard" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGu= ild@yahoogroups.com, Viv > wrote: > > > > I work= for a publishing company, and our rule of thumb > > is that if a quote exc= eeds 300 words, we ask > > permission from the copyright holder to reprint.= > > Ususally they give that permission without charge. I > > suspect that = the length of quotation can be longer > > with academic-type (not for profi= t) writings. > > I've been doing enough calculating for readers (as in a b= ook with a > collection articles kinda thing, but with original material a= s well) > or for scientific papers, articles and even news items, that in= the > scientific world it is about the same, and this is Dutch/ European = > copyright law. And 300 words... you approach that fast. (LOL, I am > so= glad to be on maternity leave because imagine a lot of rolling > eyes whe= n a researcher comes to you with shining eyes and says, hey > I am going t= o publish an article reader, but I need to have the > copyright thing chec= ked for all the references, quotations =E1nd > images used). > > The thin= g is, essays I don't mind, really, it is an author > *interpretating thing= s* of how Tolkien might have meant something. > Parma Endermion (sp? sorry= it's late and I had a broken night with > lots of pain) is a collection o= f essays from Michael Martinez and he > simply states that he is just mer= ely interpretating things his way > and can't be seen (and neither does he= want others to see that) as > canon. > > But for example when I make a 3= 2 page profile of a character from > Tolkien's world (pure canon material)= like I did very recently for > one of my authors, in the back of my mind = I know I am violating the > copyright law, despite the fact that the autho= r and I have all the > volumes of HOME, the Silm, UT and so on ourselves (= so it is for > purely private use, so we aren't breaking the law LOL). No,= before > anyone replies: I am not passing on this file to someone else, = > neither will I place it online, because if I do, I am violating > it... = (and I do expect from every author I do this kind of research > for that t= hey never pass it on to someone else). Now if I can come > up with 32 page= s (15908 words, I just checked) about one Silm (kinda > minor) character = alone, can you imagine how easy it is to cross this > line if you start a= database on a character with material from the > books? My mind just star= ts to reel when I think of doing a Feanor > profile LOL. > > I knew also = that the ency of arda question would come, they do also > get their materi= al printed on cd, and I checked their FAQ when I > posted the message yest= erday, when they state all rights reserved, > you can be certain of it tha= t they have a legal agreement with the > Tolkien Estate. > > So enough ra= mbling, I have a Curufin to write. If the baby stops > kicking me so hard = that is. > > Rhapsody > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 295 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36795 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2006 06:17:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2006 06:17:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2006 06:17:50 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2006 06:17:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2006 06:17:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 06:17:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Archive Site (copyright issues) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=b0nG5DaU7fZwE8LfB3ZmA7mEgW3w1-6_0B8y9Tv0BzyPRyyA0qWROAc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "fanged_geranium" wrote: > > I'm being rather slow at the moment, which is why= it's only just > occurred to me that the entire site will be in violation= of > copyright, since it will contain fanfic! > Derivative work, fair = use and the opinion or clear wishes of the author should be taken into acco= unt when writing fan fic for whatever fandom. Two good links and very cle= arly written for a non-professional in this field: http://whoosh.org/issue2= 5/lee1.html http://whoosh.org/issue62/ecks2.html But just for those who wa= nt an answer right now (from the site, which actually makes a good read): = 2.3) Can I hide under the "Fair Use Doctrine" tunic? Fair Use is a very com= plicated doctrine developed for policy and utilitarian reasons. It allows y= ou to make limited use of a copyrighted work without an author's permission= . It is not a wholesale license to copy, even if you don't charge for it. B= y way of example, a movie critic showing clips from a movie is fair use. U= sually, only a short excerpt of the protected work is used, and it is almos= t always attributed. Also, your usage cannot damage the commercial value o= f the original work, i.e. to the extent where people no longer need to buy = the original: borrowing your classmate's book and copying it so that you do= n't need to buy your own copy for class is not fair use, even though it's e= ducational use. (However, note the difference between this and "lethal paro= dy" discussed below.) Basically, fair use is an affirmative defense. It is= only used when there's infringement. (Copy. Sec. 107). What you do when yo= u're sued is that you admit there's infringement, but you claim your infrin= gement to be fair use. To decide whether or not something constitutes fair= use, the courts look at: 2.3.1) the purpose and character of use; = 2.3.2) the nature of the copyrighted work; 2.3.3) the amount and subst= antiality of copying; and 2.3.4) the market effect. Bear in mind, howe= ver, that these factors are not exclusive, nor are they conclusive. The cou= rts will consider all relevant factors to decide whether or not the use was= fair. 2.3.1) Purpose and character of use. The courts look at a number of= factors in evaluating this: 2.3.1.1) Commercial v. Transformative (de= rivative) use; and 2.3.1.2) Commercial v. Academic use/Research. 2.3.1= .1) Commercial v. Transformative (derivative) use. For example, if you're c= opying/bootlegging a video tape, that's pure consumption and fair use defen= se will not be available. But, if you're adding your own originality to the= protected parts you took and creating something that's beneficial to the s= ociety, then the use would be transformative. The court would be more likel= y find fair use in this situation. 2.3.1.2) Commercial v. Academic use/Res= earch The law provided that the use of a copyrighted work for "criticism, = comment, [ . . . ], teaching, scholarship, or research," is allowable as fa= ir use. (Copy. Sec. 107). For example, if I were to quote copyrighted works= in this article, it would most likely be okay because that would fall unde= r academic use. 2.3.2) Nature of copyrighted work. The courts might look a= t whether the original work is one of fiction/imagination or whether it's a= fact-based work, and whether it is published or not published. It would b= e more reasonable for an Author to quote fact-based work while trying to cr= eate her own work. Whereas, in the eyes of the law, it's seldom necessary f= or an Author to quote works of fiction, beyond academic use. Unauthorized = pre-publication use of a work is usually viewed as unfair use. The Author h= as the exclusive right to decide when to first publish the work, or to whom= she assigns this right. 2.3.3) Amount and substantiality of copying. In = deciding this factor, the courts would often look at the qualitative and th= e quantitative value of the material taken. For example, if you copy a smal= l paragraph from a long article, and that paragraph turned out to be the he= art of the copied work, it would not be considered fair use. The inquiry a= lso focuses on whether the copied work is essential to copying work's exist= ence. Using the same example, if your own article revolves entirely around = the paragraph you copied, then the use wouldn't be fair either. 2.3.4) Mar= ket effect. This is possibly the most important factor of all. The inquiry= is whether there's a market for infringing material, and how it would affe= ct the market for the original work. The copyright owner has the right to = reserve unexploited markets, and that includes any potential market for der= ivative works. However, if it is unlikely that the owner of the original wo= rk would exploit that market, it would be fair use for other persons to do = so. For example, the unauthorized biographies we see popping up on book she= lves; or books that take a critical view on particular T.V. shows, or other= things of popular culture are examples of fair use. Another inquiry is wh= ether the copying work fulfills the same function as the copied work, and i= ts importance to the sale of original work. If the functions are the same, = the copying work may supersede, and would probably cut into, the original A= uthor's market. A proof of potential harm is required, and the courts would= be especially persuaded by a show of actual harm. In the case of Xena, if = TPTB could show that fan fictions displace the market for the official nove= ls (IMHO, highly unlikely), then the court may find a fanfic writer's use u= nfair. Also, there is a presumption that if the use is noncommercial or if= the work is transformative/ derivative, then there's no market effect unle= ss proven by the Plaintiff. (So, be sure you aren't writing the fanfics for= profit, and explicitly say so.) One exception to this is Parody. The crea= tion of "lethal parody", i.e. a derivative work that would kill the market = for the original work, would be all right. To qualify, the work must be a p= arody of the work and not on society itself. However, satire is not protect= ed and requires permission. For example, the Animaniacs comic (Feb '98, No.= 34) featuring Minerxa: Warrior Princess is a parody (and a fairly hilariou= s one... Ok, I admit, I love WB cartoons). Note: The First Amendment "free= dom of speech" provision is not a license to trample on legally protected r= ights. That the infringing work is not published is not determinative; if = the use of the infringing work is commercial, there's a presumption of mark= et effect; fair use is a very subjective inquiry. The result often differs = on a case by case basis, and may also vary according to the case law previo= usly established in the jurisdiction where the case is brought; and while s= cholarship/research use is not infringement of copyright, the courts distin= guish between private and commercial research, for example, research done b= y a scientist at I.I.T. versus one carried out by a researcher at DuPont Co= rp. 2.4) What kind of punishment would the Furies invoke? Copyright infri= ngement suit is a civil action. Because it's based on a federal statute, di= strict court shall have original jurisdiction of the suit. (28 USC 1338). = Damages: * actual damages + infringer's profit; or * statutory dam= age of $500 to $20,000 (decided by court) (Copy. Sec. 503). For statutory d= amages, if there's willful infringement, the court may increase damages to = $100,000. Whereas, if there's a finding of innocent infringement, the court= may lower the damage to $200. There's no provision for punitive damages. = Meanwhile, a single infringer of single work is liable for a single amount= , no matter how many acts of infringement are involved in the action. This = is true regardless of whether the acts were separate, isolated, or occurred= in a related series. (So, I guess your 100-piece series of XWP fanfic is s= till one "act".) Also, under certain circumstances, it could also be a cri= minal action, but that usually involves willful infringement for commercial= purposes. (Which is not what we're doing, right? Right.) Part 3 - More I= mportant Stuff: What Can I Borrow? 3.1) There's this nifty song I wanna qu= ote... Is it in the "Public Domain"? A work falls into public domain when: = * the copyright expired; * the copyright is abandoned; or * th= e copyright is forfeited by failure to publish with notice prior to elimina= tion of the notice requirement. (Note, however, Sec. 1.7.4, on restoration = of copyright to foreign works). No matter how widely an Author distributes= her work, and even if she does so for free, the work will not fall into pu= blic domain. Nowadays, in order for a copyrightable work to be in public d= omain, the Author must expressly release it. (Saying something like "I here= by release this fan fiction into public domain" would work.) Bear in mind t= hough, once you put something into public domain, you give up all your righ= ts to the work, and even Zeus can't bring it back. Works now in public dom= ain include all 75 years old published work and pre-1964 works that weren't= renewed on time. Chances are, traditional songs are okay. Pop songs are c= opyrighted. Meanwhile, if you're quoting from works like the Tao Te Ching, = know that while the originals are in public domain, the translations are of= ten copyrighted, so you'll need to attribute the translators as well. Also,= copyright law considers things like titles, names, short phrases,...etc., = to be noncopyrightable and in public domain. However, these same things mig= ht still be protected under trademark laws, so use them with caution. 3.2= ) Can I use something without permission? Anything that has fallen into pub= lic domain, you may use without permission. (You can quote Shakespeare to y= our heart's content, for example.) Otherwise, unless it falls into the cate= gory of "fair use" discussed above (Sec. 2.3), you can't use something with= out an author's permission. That's the case even if that something has no c= ommercial value. (If a fellow fanfic writer wrote this really beautiful poe= m, and you want to use it in your own story, you'll have to ask for permiss= ion.) One thing though, and this is my personal belief: even though the aut= hor no longer has any legally protected rights, out of general respect for = the creator and her creation, you should still cite and attribute the parts= you're copying. Part 4 - Still More Important Stuff: What Do I Have? 4.= 1) What's "Derivative Work"? The law defines Derivative Work as "work based= upon one or more preexisting works such as a translation, musical arrangem= ent, dramatization, fictionalization, [ . . . ], abridgment, condensation o= r any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted". (= Copy. Sec. 101). Also, "[a] work consisting of editorial revisions, annotat= ions, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an = original work of authorship is a 'derivative work'." (Copy. Sec. 101). In o= ther words, a derivative work is a second generation work. It is based on p= reexisting material and does not imply exclusive right to the preexisting m= aterial. Fan fictions are derivative works. Specifically, Bardwynna's exce= llent "Gaslight" series is a derivative work on two levels: Sherlock Holmes= a la Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and XWP. Note: Compilations are another type= of second generation work protected by the law. (Copy. Sec. 101). To decid= e whether a compilation is protectable, the court will look at the followin= g factors: originality in selection and coordination and arrangement of dat= a. Basically, even though novelty is not required, there must be a showing= of a minimal level of creativity (i.e. alphabetical sorting is not good en= ough). Creative spark, subjectivity, and comprehensiveness in selections ar= e required. Further, the copyright is on the particular arrangement and not= on the works themselves. (Lunacy's fan fiction reviews are copyrightable c= ompilations; and her copyright would include her reviews, but not the revie= wed works. Whereas, a mere alphabetical listing of fan fictions on a web pa= ge is probably not a copyrightable compilation.) Author's notes btw: Autho= r's Note: This article is for educational purposes only. It is a brief over= view of copyright issues that fan fiction writers in the United States of A= merica may find useful. While all information in this article is believed t= o be correct at the time of writing, it does not purport to cover all aspec= ts of copyright, and may not be construed as legal advice. If you require l= egal advice, you should consult with a legal practitioner licensed to pract= ice in your jurisdiction. There may be not-for-profit legal services availa= ble to creative artists in your area. This article is provided as is withou= t any express or implied warranty. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 296 Return-Path: X-Sender: WolfwindHA@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90144 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 03:09:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 03:09:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.21) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 03:09:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2006 21:09:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2006 03:09:25 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 03:09:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Wolfwind" Subject: New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=-wzMHFFz_d_rQxvyBAUQAUM9wT5m2DM_mLvZHmSw9G3zbVgelj8JeR8 X-Yahoo-Profile: bookwormauthor *peeks in* Hi, everyone! I'm new around here, although I know many of yo= ur names from other Tolkien venues. I really have no business joining ano= ther Tolkien group; I'm an undergraduate student doing my History thesis a= nd I have no time for this! But I read Dawn's story "Return to Me," found= out about this group, and couldn't resist. I read The Silmarillion for th= e first time about a year and a half ago, when I joined other Tolkien grou= ps and read conversations that made me think it might not be as impossible= as my dad (who introduced me to Tolkien) always told me it was. I fell i= n love with it at once. I think I like it for the same reason I like stud= ying history; it gives an outline of events and leaves it to the reader to= imagine the details. But it's better than real-life history because ther= e's a limited number of sources you have to search before you can write a= bout it, and because there are people willing to debate with you! (Try fi= nding that for the Congress of Vienna.) I'm going to confess up-front: the= first time I read Silm, I thought Feanor was horrible, his sons were a pa= ck of fools, and most of the Noldor were intolerable. *realizes she has j= ust offended thirty-odd Feanor muses, a couple hundred Feanorion muses, an= d who-knows-how- many kinslayer muses, and runs for the bomb shelter* But!= Silmarillion fanfiction has changed my view on that. I can appreciate = how complex these characters are now. Still, my first loves are the Avari= , the Nandor, and to a lesser extent the Sindar. I prefer the people the = Noldor-centric writer of Silm left out. However, Finarfin Appreciation Mon= th might have created me a Finarfin muse. Oh, dear. ~Wolfwind From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 297 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85161 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 03:34:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 03:34:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.127) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 03:34:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 67615 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jan 2006 03:34:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20060114033433.67613.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.87.137.58] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 19:34:33 PST Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 19:34:33 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-802507121-1137209673=:67594" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=L-fpoqOV6zbP7v5kYc9m16KccehB9IXUM0Ux1jy27KIcR60uK-MryQg X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-802507121-1137209673=:67594 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Wolfwind! No worries, I've locked the muses in the closet and have "NO pyrotechnics" as a rule...;-) Can you do your thesis on the History of the Elves??? ;-) ~ Tarion --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos � Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we�ll bind it! --0-802507121-1137209673=:67594 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello, Wolfwind!
 
No worries, I've locked the muses in the closet and have "NO pyrotechnics" as a rule...;-)
 
Can you do your thesis on the History of the Elves??? ;-)
 
~ Tarion

Yahoo! Photos � Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and we�ll bind it! --0-802507121-1137209673=:67594-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 298 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf02@googlemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70047 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 09:37:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 09:37:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO xproxy.gmail.com) (66.249.82.204) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 09:37:46 -0000 Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id t10so685129wxc for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 01:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.34.20 with SMTP id h20mr5009560wxh; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 01:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.48.2 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 01:37:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:37:45 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7700_13446832.1137231465017" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Tuxedo Elf Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253843753; y=iDJCjC2qiWOXls9_29RU9E1W0bykZU5QcGydzn-Rv_-kR8Xp1PGW0Q X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf ------=_Part_7700_13446832.1137231465017-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 299 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85461 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 16:31:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 16:31:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 16:31:47 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 934A71376B5 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:31:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:35:16 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1223135222.20060114173516@tlen.pl> To: Wolfwind In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=8bL4RqPhFbh02r33bW0fc_TQg9Z73BbnDL3SffrKzsh8b2rAZFM X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle W> *peeks in*� Hi, everyone!� Hi Wolfwind! I see the Silmarillion as a nice piece of mythological history, too :) W> I'm going to confess up-front: the first time I read Silm, I thought W> Feanor was horrible, his sons were a pack of fools, and most of the W> Noldor were intolerable.� When I have red it the first time I loved Noldor from the start, especially those crossing ice and Finw� with Felagund, but I faintly remembered the F�anorians, maybe except Maedhros and Maglor. And F�anor, of course, hard to miss him. But Elw� was my favorite one, later Finw�. Ingw� would go along, but he exists in a few lines only :( The first 3 elves brave enough to not flee from Orom�. Now I keep teasing Elw� about hiding in the cave after Melian's skirt. I can't forgive him that he didn't aid the Union at the Vth Battle. W> *realizes she has just offended thirty-odd Feanor muses, a couple hundred Feanorion muses, and W> who-knows-how- many kinslayer muses, and runs for the bomb shelter*� Easy, my F�anorians are reembodied and look at the world a bit differently. Can you hear, Celegorm is laughing from your idea already. But he is also asking what a bomb is, dammit. W> But!� Silmarillion fanfiction has changed my view on that.� Unfortunately. Read a story and the characters are not the same anymore, especially when the author really loves them. Then you have no choice, but to share the love. The same goes with art. The most horrible thing possible - a talented author who is also an artist. Good Eru! Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 300 Return-Path: X-Sender: wolfwindha@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57731 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 20:31:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 20:31:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.194) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 20:31:57 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i28so968185wra for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.105.1 with SMTP id h1mr2402160qbm; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.126.14 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:31:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1ca65e040601141231t122a3bd6l40eb060851039f6b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:31:56 -0700 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20060114033433.67613.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_121039_11297551.1137270716342" References: <20060114033433.67613.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Wolfwind Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=cibbiTvPT_EjH-XGrtIeJTJv-i-hEISSrWDjBA9_LCHTp1DYNAzte8M X-Yahoo-Profile: bookwormauthor ------=_Part_121039_11297551.1137270716342-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 301 Return-Path: X-Sender: wolfwindha@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78304 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 20:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 20:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.162.193) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 20:42:48 -0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n1so889259nzf for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:42:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.53.18 with SMTP id b18mr2357852qba; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:42:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.126.14 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:42:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1ca65e040601141242m78812e54n1766933ea247b696@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:42:48 -0700 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_121123_1116861.1137271368103" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Wolfwind Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=oR1Jbg5SUkMliZKH-NRTCa1Ez3Ltn0WUF-DPYpiNfQhwnxdLrft_0Vo X-Yahoo-Profile: bookwormauthor ------=_Part_121123_1116861.1137271368103-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 302 Return-Path: X-Sender: wolfwindha@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64918 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 20:53:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 20:53:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.201) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 20:53:25 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i5so867000wra for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.252.7 with SMTP id e7mr2431104qbs; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.126.14 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:53:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1ca65e040601141253k3de714a2i7df96600c49509f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:53:24 -0700 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1223135222.20060114173516@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_121287_661548.1137272004550" References: <1223135222.20060114173516@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Wolfwind Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=23rCISKCvw9p7dA-QFIsGKLkry8anl56Bcs3-yCi4-DQG16KxX8a5Ps X-Yahoo-Profile: bookwormauthor ------=_Part_121287_661548.1137272004550-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 303 Return-Path: X-Sender: alina_moi2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83027 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2006 11:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2006 11:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2006 11:49:01 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2006 11:49:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2006 11:49:01 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 11:48:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Alina" Subject: Re: New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235462409; y=DzF_b7ImzBczHPqlU4aX14DYk4hBI6D9hFs_vREI-iYn1YcsV2GW7w X-Yahoo-Profile: alina_moi2004 > *peeks in* Hi, everyone! I'm new around here, although I know many > = of your names from other Tolkien venues. I really have no business > joi= ning another Tolkien group; I'm an undergraduate student doing my > Histo= ry thesis and I have no time for this! But I read Dawn's > story "Return = to Me," found out about this group, and couldn't resist. Hello and welcom= e. I'm a newbie myself, only nosing around at the moment. I know exactly w= hat you mean by having little time to join yet another group, as I'm prett= y much in the same situation as you, working on a graduation paper of non-= profit organisations' management. And swamped with all that school stuff t= hat being in the last year at Uni usually means. I've joined this group = due to Dawn's writing too. I think that it's impossible not to love her wr= ititng, not to be deeply impressed by it (I still get the shivers when I t= hink about "Return to me") and not to want to know a little more about her= and her work. I fell in love with Dawn's writitng while reading "Another = Man's Cage", over at her LJ. Even if you do not fancy the Feanorians too m= uch, AMC is a must. You will love it, if you have not checked it out alrea= dy. > I read The Silmarillion for the first time about a year and a half = > ago...I fell in love with it at once. So did I, although the first ti= me I've read it, a few years ago, my English was not so good and I focused= more on understanding than the characters. Ofcourse it drew me in and I'v= e read it lots of times since (either all or parts of it). But I avidly re= ad everything Elves related, whether it's Tolkien's work or fanfiction. = > I'm going to confess up-front: the first time I read Silm, I thought Fea= nor was horrible, his sons were a pack of fools, and most of the Noldor we= re intolerable. LOL, they were pretty nasty, weren't they? I think I'd hav= e loathed the Feanorians a lot if I were not instinctively attracted to c= omplicated, often misunderstood, easy to hate and silghtly evil characters= . I remember wanting to kick Feanor's butt for the way he treaed Finglofin= , and thinking he was a major SoB, but when he got himsef killed I almost = screamed out loud "Nooooo!" Like you said, fanfiction and a little patienc= e while trying to understand a character's background and reasons, made al= l the difference. Now I'm one of the biggest Feanor&Feanorions fans out th= ere and I love them pretty much unconditionally. I do appreaciate all El= ves, in general, but I have to say Elwe gets on nerves a little. Doh, figu= res, being a Noldor lover and all. > However, Finarfin Appreciation Month= might have created me a Finarfin > muse. Oh, dear. I'd love to see what= that muse has to say :) Oh, my... I should have warrned you from the begi= nning, I do tend to ramble quite a bit. Sorry if I've bored you. ;) Annar= ien. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 304 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56385 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2006 19:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2006 19:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.202.56) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2006 19:52:56 -0000 Received: from smailcenter66.comcast.net ([204.127.205.166]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006011519423101200h6o51e>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:42:31 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter66.comcast.net; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:42:30 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:42:30 +0000 Message-Id: <011520061942.3689.43CAA5A600083CBB00000E6922070210530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3689_1137354150_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Well, I'm Back :) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=MrdMT2mRX7ZhXcqfgzP4TtXwyncMBkndObcpbDYfY_3pldu5A5Lk X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3689_1137354150_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, everyone, I'm more or less back for the next two days--tomorrow being a State holiday--and will be back into full swing on Tuesday. I would really like to thank all of you for your support and patience with me at this difficult time for my family and me. Those of you who emailed me or left comments in my LJ, I wish I could express how truly grateful I am to each of you. It reminded me that I really do believe that I know the most wonderful and kindest people on the Internet. :) And welcome also to Wolfwind! I'm glad to see you're joining up with our crazy bunch. Your Avarin perspective will be much appreciated...although I wouldn't mind hearing from the newly acquired Finarfin muse either. ;) I hope to be replying to each of you who offered help during our recent conversation about the Silmfic archive within the next few days. I haven't forgotten you! Thanks again to everyone and my best regards to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3689_1137354150_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, everyone,
I'm more or less back for the next two days--tomorrow being a State holiday--and will be back into full swing on Tuesday. I would really like to thank all of you for your support and patience with me at this difficult time for my family and me. Those of you who emailed me or left comments in my LJ, I wish I could express how truly grateful I am to each of you. It reminded me that I really do believe that I know the most wonderful and kindest people on the Internet. :)
 
And welcome also to Wolfwind! I'm glad to see you're joining up with our crazy bunch. Your Avarin perspective will be much appreciated...although I wouldn't mind hearing from the newly acquired Finarfin muse either. ;)
 
I hope to be replying to each of you who offered help during our recent conversation about the Silmfic archive within the next few days. I haven't forgotten you!
 
Thanks again to everyone and my best regards to all,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3689_1137354150_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 305 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37094 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2006 03:56:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2006 03:56:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2006 03:56:24 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2006 03:55:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2006 03:55:53 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:55:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=rrz3aUJCgSsj2dvr2Frep7953AML7Sf_LymlzGJpJKYM0e6j0M8 X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Hi and welcome to the group! I'm not a Feanorian either, I must admit. I'= m a huge fan of Finarfin and his clan, Glorfindel, Olwe, and Ecthelion, as = well as a Moriquendi lover (love the Galadhrim, too). Sadly, I can't subm= it anything new for the Finarfin appreciation month as my two latest Finarf= in fics were entered in a contest at another group and I can't post them an= ywhere else for 30 days from today or something like that. Anyway, glad y= ou are here! I'm a member of way too many groups, too, so I sporadically ch= at at each of them, but try to skim if not read at all of them. Cheers, El= lie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 306 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75304 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2006 04:03:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2006 04:03:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2006 04:03:11 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2006 04:02:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2006 04:02:27 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 04:02:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Birthdays and Such X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=jC2t9Rz8JJ6wfMAd_sUOPEgxsj-nz-c6zWcv94D4KrAoFiVM7Ak X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I'm a January birthday person, and I must say I'm thrilled that January is = Finarfin Appreciation month. I don't have any new Finarfin stories I can po= st at this time due to restrictions at the contest where they are currently= entered (I never win, but I always enter for the sake of the muse and comp= etitive spirit and self-esteem bashing and whatnot). I think that all of my= other Finarfin stories have already been posted here. Been super busy at= home with construction/renovation to the house and of course the holidays,= and the kids. Anyway, just wanted to express my appreciation for the mont= h's challenge subject. Cheers, Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 307 Return-Path: X-Sender: wolfwindha@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66382 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2006 18:16:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2006 18:16:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.162.203) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2006 18:16:46 -0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m7so1400471nzf for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:16:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.251.9 with SMTP id d9mr3214719qbs; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.126.14 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:16:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1ca65e040601161016y6f4076f3s3736c9dfd768b9ee@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:16:45 -0700 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6655_23510980.1137435405231" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Wolfwind Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=XLyA-N4XikrqFsZXADY_1YkFLllcWdTLpqj78U50fmYA6myiLfjDqHI X-Yahoo-Profile: bookwormauthor ------=_Part_6655_23510980.1137435405231-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 308 Return-Path: X-Sender: wolfwindha@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27615 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2006 18:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2006 18:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.162.206) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2006 18:22:20 -0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r28so1184919nza for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:21:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.177.10 with SMTP id e10mr3167074qbp; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:21:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.126.14 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:21:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1ca65e040601161021x344c2d69x11a99d2287894a47@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:21:46 -0700 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6783_25785191.1137435705999" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Wolfwind Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=JXio8sAZklFXx7cDyQcAomO5f3UPQbbn05IfjxnIWMJz3KJNFSN_PKY X-Yahoo-Profile: bookwormauthor ------=_Part_6783_25785191.1137435705999-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 309 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64784 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 02:18:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 02:18:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (63.240.77.83) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 02:18:17 -0000 Received: from smailcenter66.comcast.net ([204.127.205.166]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2006011702161501300oasj8e>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 02:16:15 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter66.comcast.net; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 02:16:14 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 02:16:14 +0000 Message-Id: <011720060216.2059.43CC536D000C0BDD0000080B22070210530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Why We Should Appreciate Finarfin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=m4v5UciLieaLovV4EBctP32IHmk98ctS1_pZBRaFgegMgyT9RBLR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Ask, SWG members, and ye shall receive.... Thanks to the encouragement of so many who wanted to know why Finarfin earned his own month, I have written an essay extolling his (many) virtues as High King of the Noldor. The essay is posted in our LJ community: http://www.livejournal.com/community/silwritersguild/36082.html and in my personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dawn_felagund/82505.html I'm far from being a canatic, so I always welcome corrections in the likelihood that I make a canon error. I am also happy to hear any thoughts--good or bad--that you wish to offer. Best regards to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 310 Return-Path: X-Sender: alina_moi2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54082 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 10:19:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 10:19:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53208.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.78) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 10:19:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 24290 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jan 2006 10:17:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20060117101740.24288.qmail@web53208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.157.179.93] by web53208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 02:17:40 PST Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 02:17:40 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1ca65e040601161016y6f4076f3s3736c9dfd768b9ee@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-422815732-1137493060=:24274" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: alina nicoleta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235462409; y=TPTkcVOxi0A-8J6OCcKJGCOyXgXIdJD99oDXYFWJh5teVBEbswBSVQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alina_moi2004 --0-422815732-1137493060=:24274 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Annarien! Glad to hear I'm not the only newbie with far too much to do. I tend to slip in and out of lurkage depending on how the schoolwork's going. Right now, I'm ignoring it. :-) Hi right back! Wish I could ignore school so much, but I have seven exams comming up in the next three weks and if I ignore those I am toast! Dawn's writing is indeed amazing. I am so tempted to read Another Man's Cage. I have a personal rule against adult-rated fics, because I'm easily squicked, but I might have to make an exception. It sounds so cool. Oh, do not worry about AMC squicking you. There are hardly any graphic sexual or gory scenes, it is mostly innuendo and there are warnings before every chapter so you know what to expect. Besides, Dawn can give you a cosmetic version of the adult chapters, without the stuff that gives them the rating, if you ask her. I'd give it even odds that before the end of this semester, this list will turn me into a reluctant Feanorian. I am certain it will. AMC will surely change your mind as far as Feanor and his family are concerned. They will grow on you for sure. My Finarfin muse hasn't shut up since I acquired him - I should have something finished for Finarfin Appreciation Month before the week is out - and he seems to be spawning other Valinorians. Maedhros is beginning to lurk in the dark corners of my brain. *runs* Oh, there is no need to run from Maedros... at least if you have no Silmaril on you and if he is not carrying a sword :) I was hoping I would have something finished for FAM, but all I have, so far, is Maedhros and Caranthir bickering over Elwe, after that council when the message from Elwe is brought by either Angrod or Aegnor (I sould kick myself for not remembering which!) I'm hard to bore when the subject has anything to do with Tolkien, so ramble away! Whew! I sure am glad you do not mind... because I sure do ramble. Anyway, best of luck in school and I look forward to checking out your contribution to FAM. I'm hard to bore when the subject has anything to do with Tolkien, so ramble away! ~Wolfwind --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-422815732-1137493060=:24274 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi, Annarien!  Glad to hear I'm not the only newbie with far too much to do.  I tend to slip in and out of lurkage depending on how the schoolwork's going.  Right now, I'm ignoring it.  :-)
 
Hi right back!
 
 Wish I could ignore school so much, but I have seven exams comming up in the next three weks and if I ignore those I am toast!
 
Dawn's writing is indeed amazing.  I am so tempted to read Another Man's Cage.  I have a personal rule against adult-rated fics, because I'm easily squicked, but I might have to make an exception.  It sounds so cool.
 
Oh, do not worry about AMC squicking you. There are hardly any graphic sexual or gory scenes, it is mostly innuendo and there are warnings before every chapter so you know what to expect. Besides, Dawn can give you a cosmetic version of the adult chapters, without the stuff that gives them the rating, if you ask her.
 
I'd give it even odds that before the end of this semester, this list will turn me into a reluctant Feanorian. 
 
I am certain it will. AMC will surely change your mind as far as Feanor and his family are concerned. They will grow on you for sure.
 
My Finarfin muse hasn't shut up since I acquired him - I should have something finished for Finarfin Appreciation Month before the week is out - and he seems to be spawning other Valinorians.  Maedhros is beginning to lurk in the dark corners of my brain.  *runs*
 
Oh, there is no need to run from Maedros... at least if you have no Silmaril on you and if he is not carrying a sword :) I was hoping I would have something finished for FAM, but all I have, so far, is Maedhros and Caranthir bickering over Elwe, after that council when the message from Elwe is brought by either Angrod or Aegnor (I sould kick myself for not remembering which!)
 
I'm hard to bore when the subject has anything to do with Tolkien, so ramble away!
 
Whew! I sure am glad you do not mind... because I sure do ramble.
 
Anyway, best of luck in school and I look forward to checking out your contribution to FAM.
 
I'm hard to bore when the subject has anything to do with Tolkien, so ramble away!
 
~Wolfwind

Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-422815732-1137493060=:24274-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 311 Return-Path: X-Sender: wolfwindha@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77609 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 22:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 22:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.162.202) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 22:24:43 -0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1267428nzp for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:24:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.220.8 with SMTP id s8mr3269154qbg; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:24:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.126.14 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:24:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1ca65e040601171424w14998b3eh876a29ac790a7548@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:24:43 -0700 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20060117101740.24288.qmail@web53208.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_26915_30459389.1137536683057" References: <1ca65e040601161016y6f4076f3s3736c9dfd768b9ee@mail.gmail.com> <20060117101740.24288.qmail@web53208.mail.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Wolfwind Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=Dwku9W3eCuyWE-jaHl7cgkssgTx36nnzP7y6ex8Tq6ppQSu3R81EfxI X-Yahoo-Profile: bookwormauthor ------=_Part_26915_30459389.1137536683057-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 312 Return-Path: X-Sender: zippygeek@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21844 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 04:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2006 04:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 04:36:47 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2006 04:36:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2006 04:36:40 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 04:36:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jeanngenie" Subject: Another newbie! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30424462; y=bUkvGOmg_JT6-pTLcEQ-aQRzl9NqYMSQ0v4Gk_iE1lg9pXBg X-Yahoo-Profile: jeanngenie Hi everyone! I'm so excited to find a Silmarillion Writer's Group, as I too= am one of those few people who actually prefer the Silmarillion to Lord of= the Rings. Don't get me wrong, I love LOTR, and The Hobbit, but to me the = Silmarillion is IT. I'm looking forward to getting to know you all and to s= haring our love of this fantastic piece of fiction. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 313 Return-Path: X-Sender: alina_moi2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62367 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 10:30:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2006 10:30:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53209.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.79) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 10:30:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 71219 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jan 2006 10:29:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20060121102910.71216.qmail@web53209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.225.142.195] by web53209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 02:29:10 PST Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 02:29:10 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-65850755-1137839350=:70107" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: alina nicoleta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Another newbie! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235462409; y=Pmy6zx9bMFJYowLb98ckTSGdNo6Ires9tBzmoP9lFUGHRV2zYJXlFw X-Yahoo-Profile: alina_moi2004 --0-65850755-1137839350=:70107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi everyone! Hi, and welcome. I'm pretty much a newbie myself, with little time on my hands to be part of any group as "real life" is hectic for me this time of year, but I'm keeping an eye on this group and I'm happy to welcome another Silmarillion lover. I'm so excited to find a Silmarillion Writer's Group, as I too am one of those few people who actually prefer the Silmarillion to Lord of the Rings. Don't get me wrong, I love LOTR, and The Hobbit, but to me the Silmarillion is IT. I'm looking forward to getting to know you all and to sharing our love of this fantastic piece of fiction. I'm sure you will enjoy yourself a lot over here. The group owner is an amazing lady and the group members, as far as I know them, will also give you a warm welcome and an enjoyable time. I'm a Silmarillion and History of Middle-Earth fan above all the other Tolkien works, myself. I think that these books are not just entertaining fiction, but more like historical documents in which the writer has created worlds, people, deities, kingdoms, wars and so on. These books are less Hobbit-like child's play and adventure, but focused on vast conflicts, in a far more serious note and from a cosmic perspective, too. Eh, I should refrain from rambling, which I usually excell at, and admit that I love the Silmarillion so much because it's mainly about Elves(whom I )and it contains the live-stories of my favorite characters: Feanor and his sons (whom I furiously ). If you wish to share your likes, dislikes and favorite parts of the Silm, I'd be more than happy to hear them. Welcome once again, Annarien. SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative writing program Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and fantasy --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-65850755-1137839350=:70107 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi everyone!
 
Hi, and welcome. I'm pretty much a newbie myself, with little time on my hands to be part of any group as "real life" is hectic for me this time of year, but I'm keeping an eye on this group and I'm happy to welcome another Silmarillion lover.
 
I'm so excited to find a Silmarillion Writer's Group, as
I too am one of those few people who actually prefer the Silmarillion
to Lord of the Rings. Don't get me wrong, I love LOTR, and The Hobbit,
but to me the Silmarillion is IT. I'm looking forward to getting to
know you all and to sharing our love of this fantastic piece of fiction.
I'm sure you will enjoy yourself a lot over here. The group owner is an amazing lady and the group members, as far as I know them, will also give you a warm welcome and an enjoyable time.
I'm a Silmarillion and History of Middle-Earth fan above all the other Tolkien works, myself. I think that these books are not just entertaining fiction, but more like historical documents in which the writer has created worlds, people, deities, kingdoms, wars and so on. These books are less Hobbit-like child's play and adventure, but focused on vast conflicts, in a far more serious note and from a cosmic perspective, too. Eh, I should refrain from rambling, which I usually excell at, and admit that I love the Silmarillion so much because it's mainly about Elves(whom I )and it contains the live-stories of my favorite characters: Feanor and his sons (whom I furiously ).
If you wish to share your likes, dislikes and favorite parts of the Silm, I'd be more than happy to hear them.
 
Welcome once again,
 
Annarien.




Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-65850755-1137839350=:70107-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 314 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf02@googlemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31548 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 10:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2006 10:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 10:54:18 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2006 10:51:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2006 10:51:46 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:51:45 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1ca65e040601141242m78812e54n1766933ea247b696@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "tuxedo_elf" Subject: Re: New Member Intro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253843753; y=y3c3o5-EPpaa-N5DrGh9oQEt_Yc9KsYpjA9l5jivSWO44h6kKHwtPQ X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf You've got to watch them though! Celegorm snuck into my brain during a rol= e-play and before I knew it he was using my shampoo and drinking my coffee= ! :P But he is heavily out-numbered by Silvans, so they keep him in check!= ;) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Wolfwind wrote: > > Yay, I'm not the only anti-Feanorion! I have a group o= f militant Moriquendi > muses (don't tell them I called them that!) who ke= ep sending me propaganda > on *their* side of the story and how the Valar = and the Noldor ruined > everything. If I can get rid of them, I can appre= ciate the great stories > that there are to tell about the Noldor, but tha= t doesn't happen too often. > And I definitely don't *like* the Sons of Fe= anor. Glad to know I'm not > alone! > > ~Wolfwind > > > On 1/14/06, Tu= xedo Elf wrote: > > > > Oh good, someone after my own h= eart. LOL. Most of my muses live in > > Lothlorien, so I'm very much a Sil= van-lover! (And the Sindar too, almost by > > default!) I was very anti-Fe= anorion for ages, so don't worry about it! If > > I'm honest, Celegorm is = still the only one I really like! (Blame role-play!) > > > > > > In other = words - welcome! > > > > Tux > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 315 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf02@googlemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48209 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 10:54:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2006 10:54:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.85) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 10:54:41 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2006 04:55:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2006 10:53:40 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:53:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060121102910.71216.qmail@web53209.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "tuxedo_elf" Subject: Re: Another newbie! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253843753; y=liuAqh8NJuCboFITr8AMJp6S6PTcaxFzM9bWpGBAq3eUFU5dA3x94A X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf Hi, hello and welcome! :) Tux From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 316 Return-Path: X-Sender: wolfwindha@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97086 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 19:09:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2006 19:09:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.193) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 19:09:56 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i2so636326wra for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:09:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.148.13 with SMTP id a13mr1942538qbo; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:09:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.126.14 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:09:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1ca65e040601211109u189ed374rd8becdde7956e548@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:09:54 -0700 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19592_14786616.1137870594453" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Wolfwind Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Another newbie! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=9VxFK_PAe3HEQe1Opi-Ocby_met7Q7v8D9ZDFKNH1-03bkLgiTX-vIA X-Yahoo-Profile: bookwormauthor ------=_Part_19592_14786616.1137870594453-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 317 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34349 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 22:47:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2006 22:47:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 22:47:44 -0000 Received: from smailcenter71.comcast.net ([204.127.205.171]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <200601212147230120061fude>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:47:23 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter71.comcast.net; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:47:21 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:47:21 +0000 Message-Id: <012120062147.18302.43D2ABE90000C4310000477E22007636920B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18302_1137880041_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Another newbie! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=NxRuEt9crZKiqIzwtnMvIfF7ABpdTsmtMVuT_EWzk8u-xcs53OuN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18302_1137880041_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Welcome to the group! :) This is an exciting time for our group, and I'm thrilled to have new voices to contribute thoughts and ideas. I've noticed that we now have a lot of new members who like characters other than Feanorians. *gasp* (For those of you who haven't been around for the whole six months of SWG's existence, most of our original members were bona fide Feanatics.) Finarfin Appreciation Month has been a lot of fun to get people interested in a character who doesn't get a whole lot of press. Would anyone be game for a challenge where we read/write a character we've never liked or given much attention before? Perhaps we could have a story swap: Someone who is a Sindarin sympathizer and despises the Feanorians, for example, could trade a story with a Feanatic. It might be a fun way to try some new things and explore some new ideas. Let me know if anyone's interested and we'll work out the details! Best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ -------------- Original message -------------- From: "jeanngenie" Hi everyone! I'm so excited to find a Silmarillion Writer's Group, as I too am one of those few people who actually prefer the Silmarillion to Lord of the Rings. Don't get me wrong, I love LOTR, and The Hobbit, but to me the Silmarillion is IT. I'm looking forward to getting to know you all and to sharing our love of this fantastic piece of fiction. SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative writing program Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and fantasy YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18302_1137880041_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Welcome to the group! :)
This is an exciting time for our group, and I'm thrilled to have new voices to contribute thoughts and ideas.
 
I've noticed that we now have a lot of new members who like characters other than Feanorians. *gasp* (For those of you who haven't been around for the whole six months of SWG's existence, most of our original members were bona fide Feanatics.) Finarfin Appreciation Month has been a lot of fun to get people interested in a character who doesn't get a whole lot of press. Would anyone be game for a challenge where we read/write a character we've never liked or given much attention before? Perhaps we could have a story swap: Someone who is a Sindarin sympathizer and despises the Feanorians, for example, could trade a story with a Feanatic. It might be a fun way to try some new things and explore some new ideas.
 
Let me know if anyone's interested and we'll work out the details!
Best regards to all,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "jeanngenie"
Hi everyone! I'm so excited to find a Silmarillion Writer's Group, as
I too am one of those few people who actually prefer the Silmarillion
to Lord of the Rings. Don't get me wrong, I love LOTR, and The Hobbit,
but to me the Silmarillion is IT. I'm looking forward to getting to
know you all and to sharing our love of this fantastic piece of fiction.



--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18302_1137880041_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 318 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40252 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 04:50:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 04:50:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 04:50:16 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2006 04:46:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2006 04:46:40 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 04:46:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: OT: Capitalization Questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=YZItiPaIWDOsdOopYj9PeNCKjghInNFj5v8iVqVqzJWnOUOT07Q X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 When a character is addressing a lord what is proper capitalization for lor= d: "My Lord" or "My lord"? Also in court would a king ever be called Sir= or would he be called only my king or my lord or my liege? Also, is it M= andos' Halls or Mandos' halls? I've totally forgotten all of this and need= to sort out the inconsistent mess I've made of my chapter. Help! Thanks= ! Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 319 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65825 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 05:33:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 05:33:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.127) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 05:33:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 32884 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Jan 2006 05:06:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20060124050647.32882.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.82.63.229] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:06:47 PST Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:06:47 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-478487488-1138079207=:29747" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Capitalization Questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=ge_GKfOercMHDxVKlrg2eIyuZgInCYHumQXCFKB5lVPhU2iPX8n5t-0 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-478487488-1138079207=:29747 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think it would be "My lord" unless the person is saying "My Lord So-so"... Not sure about "sir" - author's choice? :) And I guess "Mandos' halls"...I mean, you wouldn't say "Tarion's Halls" - at least I don't think you would. It'd be "Tarion's halls"... Of course, to me, all these are very minor, so as long as you pick one and stick to it, I don't see why it should be a problem. :) Hope this helps. ~Tarion ellfine2000 wrote: When a character is addressing a lord what is proper capitalization for lord: "My Lord" or "My lord"? Also in court would a king ever be called Sir or would he be called only my king or my lord or my liege? Also, is it Mandos' Halls or Mandos' halls? I've totally forgotten all of this and need to sort out the inconsistent mess I've made of my chapter. Help! Thanks! Ellie --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-478487488-1138079207=:29747 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I think it would be "My lord" unless the person is saying "My Lord So-so"...
 
Not sure about "sir" - author's choice? :)
 
And I guess "Mandos' halls"...I mean, you wouldn't say "Tarion's Halls" - at least I don't think you would. It'd be "Tarion's halls"...
 
Of course, to me, all these are very minor, so as long as you pick one and stick to it, I don't see why it should be a problem. :)
 
Hope this helps.
 
~Tarion

ellfine2000 wrote:
When a character is addressing a lord what is proper capitalization
for lord:  "My Lord"  or "My lord"?

Also in court would a king ever be called Sir or would he be called
only my king or my lord or my liege?

Also, is it Mandos' Halls or Mandos' halls?

I've totally forgotten all of this and need to sort out the
inconsistent mess I've made of my chapter.

Help!

Thanks!

Ellie

Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-478487488-1138079207=:29747-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 320 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladypear@blazemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77894 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 06:56:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 06:56:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 06:56:17 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2006 06:56:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2006 06:56:00 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 06:56:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060124050647.32882.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Vana Tuivana" Subject: Re: OT: Capitalization Questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253685802; y=tjsPqwT6UX9WQCfaXsclGwYCmOKGyXaaGPXDQcd9c78jwsN7SVs X-Yahoo-Profile: vanatuivana --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore wrote: > > I think it would be "My lord" unless the person is sa= ying "My Lord So-so"... > > Not sure about "sir" - author's choice? := ) > > And I guess "Mandos' halls"...I mean, you wouldn't say "Tarion= 's Halls" - at least I don't think you would. It'd be "Tarion's halls"... >= > Of course, to me, all these are very minor, so as long as you pick= one and stick to it, I don't see why it should be a problem. :) > > = Hope this helps. > > ~Tarion I think that "Mandos' Halls" might als= o be right. Because I know you are supposed to capitalize "Halls of Mandos= " and "Halls of Awaiting"... *shrugs* As a matter of opinion, I also prefe= r "Mandos' halls", but I just wanted to throw that out there. Perhaps it = depends on your style of writing... more formal might tend to capitalize "H= alls", and more casual might not. Alternatively, you could just say "Mando= s" and have done with it. :-) As for one of the other questions, I would = think that "Sir" might be used to address a king by people who are nearly h= is equal in status (high lords, princes and so on), and by family members (= when "king" is just too formal but "father" or "brother" or whatever is too= intimate for public use, perhaps?). But I can't find anything on this, so= I have no authority whatsoever about this issue. :-) Vana > > ellfine2= 000 wrote: > When a character is addressing a lord what i= s proper capitalization > for lord: "My Lord" or "My lord"? > > Also in = court would a king ever be called Sir or would he be called > only my king = or my lord or my liege? > > Also, is it Mandos' Halls or Mandos' halls? >= > I've totally forgotten all of this and need to sort out the > inconsist= ent mess I've made of my chapter. > > Help! > > Thanks! > > Ellie > = > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Photos > Got holiday prints?= See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 321 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72105 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 14:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 14:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.26.24) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 14:38:43 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 05:55:15 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.26.200 by by112fd.bay112.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:55:15 GMT X-Originating-Email: [atanwende@hotmail.com] X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:55:15 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2006 13:55:15.0409 (UTC) FILETIME=[CD860C10:01C620ED] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Unsung Heroine" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Capitalization Questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=cG318n4plnwZnNTfc6-MJuOA8XmUSHp4ivDeOE63nh7rXuKd X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende

I don't know if this is much of a help, but I'd capitalize both "Lord" and "Halls", but I'm not certain if this is the correct way! :-)

-- UH

From: "ellfine2000"
Reply-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Capitalization Questions
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 04:46:38 -0000

When a character is addressing a lord what is proper capitalization
for lord:  "My Lord"  or "My lord"?

Also in court would a king ever be called Sir or would he be called
only my king or my lord or my liege?

Also, is it Mandos' Halls or Mandos' halls?

I've totally forgotten all of this and need to sort out the
inconsistent mess I've made of my chapter.

Help!

Thanks!

Ellie





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From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 322 Return-Path: X-Sender: wolfwindha@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81034 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 16:25:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 16:25:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.162.197) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 16:25:23 -0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r28so1145203nza for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:25:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.123.3 with SMTP id a3mr2165552qbn; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:25:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.126.14 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:25:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1ca65e040601240825p2c9c6abmfa6eb065a6d1f0d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:25:16 -0700 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_54111_25471114.1138119916204" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Wolfwind Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Capitalization Questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=cRJ2FarmbMmPcedbFCGi-ba4QkUb91Yl1cq-Y1VkkU8wLD2pO39aBhY X-Yahoo-Profile: bookwormauthor ------=_Part_54111_25471114.1138119916204-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 323 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10113 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 16:38:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 16:38:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 16:38:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2006 16:37:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2006 16:37:17 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:37:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1ca65e040601240825p2c9c6abmfa6eb065a6d1f0d@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: OT: Capitalization Questions - Thanks! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=sllqkZMGqEXiDlnGAFmjRDcFGYsbA5OTq1tZpT0AYoTvdeG0Lfc X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Thanks for all of the opinions on this. In looking back over my story, my b= etas argued this point more than once and I have noticed discrepencies over= the other 19 chapters where I just got sick of worrying about it and gave = up. Unfortuantely I have a degree in writing and editing, so I am bothered = by these sorts of details and even more more bothered by the facts that I h= ave discrepencies in my story and that all of my editing books are in a box= somewhere lurking in my attic or my basement (a tree fell on the house in = August and we still have much of the contents of the attic in the basement = or scattered throughout the house out of laziness and extreme extenuating c= urcumstances). Anyway, your comments have helped. Thank you very much! El= lie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 324 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29693 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2006 14:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2006 14:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.232) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2006 14:37:12 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n9.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2006 14:29:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2006 14:29:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2006 14:29:24 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:29:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: OT: Capitalization Questions - Thanks! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=MjiIBifvDFywxxn2HmMCfkCLIFSTZi70XW7pVcJZv5o7cMHvAL5d2z0 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "ellfine2000" wrote: > > Thanks for all of the opinions on this. In looking back over= my > story, my betas argued this point more than once and I have noticed = > discrepencies over the other 19 chapters where I just got sick of > worry= ing about it and gave up. Unfortuantely I have a degree in > writing and ed= iting, so I am bothered by these sorts of details and > even more more both= ered by the facts that I have discrepencies in my > story and that all of m= y editing books are in a box somewhere > lurking in my attic or my basemen= t (a tree fell on the house in > August and we still have much of the cont= ents of the attic in the > basement or scattered throughout the house out = of laziness and > extreme extenuating curcumstances). If you don't mind m= e chiming in... Ellie. This is a style issue. I went to my Hodges Harbrace = Handbook (the stylebook for colleges). But bear in mind. Tolkien always wro= te UK English style and there are huge difference between his style and tha= t of American English-style. So maybe what your beta's are argueing about i= s the mixing of two styles (ain't I lucky that I write English UK style LOL= ). Anyway, it says: Proper names are captitalized and so usually are thei= r abbreviations and acronyms. 1) Names and nicknames of persons or things = or trade names are capitalized. Nike, Academy Award, USS Cole, Honda Accor= d, John Paul II 2) Names of peoples and their languages are capitalized: = English, Swahili ect 3) Names of geographical features and of bridges, mon= uments and buildings are capitalized Artic Circle, Ellis Island. Seventh S= treet. Note: when referring to two or more geographical features, however,= do not capitalize the generic term: Lincoln and Jefferson memorials, Yello= wstone and Grand Canyon national parks. 4) Names of organizations, goverme= nt agences, institutions, and companies are capitalized 5) Names for days = of the week,months and holidays are capitalized Note: names of the seasons= - spring, summer, fall, winter- are not capitalized unless followed by a y= ear: Spring 2004. 6) Designations for historical documents, periods, event= s and movements are capitalized Declaration of Independence, Gulf War, Wor= ld Series. 7) Notes of religions, their adherents, holy days, titles of ho= ly books, and word denoting the Supreme Being are cap italized. 8) Words d= erived from proper names are capitalized Note: when a proper name becomes = the name of a general class of objects or ideas, it is no longer capitalize= d Capitalization style: Most style books recommend that initial letters of= words derived from proper names not to be capitalized. Merriam-Wenbster's = Collegiate Dictionary comments that such words are often capitalized, but i= t shows most of them in lower case. 9) abbreviations and acronyms often ap= pear in capticals 9b) Titles that precede the name of a person are capital= ized, but not those that follow it or stand alone: Governor Peter Dunn vs = Peter Dunn, the governor Captain Machado vs Machado, our captian President = Lincoln vs the president of the United States Words denoting family relati= onships are captitalized only when the words substitute for proper names.= Tell Mother I'll write soon vs My mother wants me to write. 9c The first= , last and all major words in titles of works are capitalized The Scarlett= Letter, Frome Here to Eternity ect.. > Anyway, your comments have helped.= Thank you very much! Well if you write: My Lord F=EBanor... then it shoul= d be capitalised because you adress a character by a title, but if you say,= F=EBanor, our lord has looked after us well... Good luck! Rhapsody (a Fe= anian if any of the newbies were wondering) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 325 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27450 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2006 23:44:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2006 23:44:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2006 23:44:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 23:42:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 23:42:51 -0000 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:42:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: OT: Capitalization Questions - Rhapsody! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=7bkHbt7JkbRkg1sVzRF0x0MIgNj3s0OMJ-iVCN9zAsGTLcKUM0s X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 You're right, it is a style issue. I've been sorely confused by my betas ov= er time though as they have given me Australian, American, and British pers= pecitves as well as technical writer, business writer, internet writer, and= romance writer perspectives. Thanks for the info you provided! I apprec= iate it a lot! Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 326 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38667 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2006 03:39:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2006 03:39:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.222) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2006 03:39:18 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 03:39:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 03:39:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 03:39:15 -0000 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 03:39:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Silm character popularity questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=1KXszTwfbItoyqPt14vy5dhSGQuPxPLI6xbLEKmHDhXcwCuWtto X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I was hunting for something to read tonight, and began to wonder just who a= re the most popular Silm characters as far as number of tales about them is= concerned. My guesses are below. What do you think? 1) Who is the most po= pular Feanorian? In my opinon it's Maglor. 2) Who is the most popular of= the Moriquendi? Celeborn or Thingol. 3) Who is the most popular of the = Finwions who aren't Feanorians? Gil-galad for House of Fingolfin (I know i= t is a subject of debate as to which house he actually belongs, but most fa= nfic attributes him to Fingolfin's house) and Finrod for House of Finarfin.= 4) What are the most popular events in the Silm according to fanfic auth= ors? Kinslaying at Alqualonde and Fall of Gondolin 5) Who is the most po= pular non-Finwion? Glorfindel Any other most populars that anyone can th= ink of? Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 327 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66846 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2006 08:01:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2006 08:01:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.202.55) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2006 08:01:43 -0000 Received: from smailcenter65.comcast.net ([204.127.205.165]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006012807153101100hooh8e>; Sat, 28 Jan 2006 07:15:31 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter65.comcast.net; Sat, 28 Jan 2006 07:15:30 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 07:15:30 +0000 Message-Id: <012820060715.17906.43DB1A120003E62B000045F222070215530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17906_1138432530_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silm character popularity questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=VNVHt1encA2RKLqx2WiFOWUO1g4Yoviszml81l1yOd95f7082JJF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17906_1138432530_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ellie (ellfine2000) wrote: > 1) Who is the most popular Feanorian? > In my opinon it's Maglor. Maglor, yes, or Maedhros? Given the number of Maedhros/Fingon fics in the slash community, I think he gets a good deal of weight too. I'd say the *least* popular Feanorians are the twins. I don't see much where Amrod and/or Amras have a pivotal role. *waits for Rhapsody to pounce* ;) > 3) Who is the most popular of the Finwions who aren't Feanorians? > Gil-galad for House of Fingolfin Really? I would've gone with Fingon for the reason of Thangorodrim rescue fics and, again, the slash card has to be played.... ;) > 4) What are the most popular events in the Silm according to fanfic authors? Agreed with your votes but must add Thangorodrim rescue and crossing of the Ice. > 5) Who is the most popular non-Finwion? I was going to add Maeglin before remembering: He *is* a Finwion! Doh! Don't mind me...it's far to late to be typing emails, but I couldn't resist chiming in on this one! Dawn Felagund, who is going to bed now.... -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17906_1138432530_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: "ellfine2000" To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silm character popularity questions Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 03:39:22 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17906_1138432530_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17906_1138432530_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was hunting for something to read tonight, and began to wonder just
who are the most popular Silm characters as far as number of tales
about them is concerned. My guesses are below. What do you think?

1) Who is the most popular Feanorian?

In my opinon it's Maglor.


2) Who is the most popular of the Moriquendi?

Celeborn or Thingol.


3) Who is the most popular of the Finwions who aren't Feanorians?

Gil-galad for House of Fingolfin (I know it is a subject of debate as
to which house he actually belongs, but most fanfic attributes him to
Fingolfin's house) and Finrod for House of Finarfin.


4) What are the most popular events in the Silm according to fanfic
authors?

Kinslaying at Alqualonde and Fall of Gondolin


5) Who is the most popular non-Finwion?

Glorfindel


Any other most populars that anyone can think of?

Ellie







 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17906_1138432530_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17906_1138432530_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 328 Return-Path: X-Sender: flying_acid_monkey@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78978 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2006 17:04:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2006 17:04:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2006 17:04:44 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 17:04:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 17:04:07 -0000 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:04:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "evils_heros" Subject: SSP: Dance With Me X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229170370; y=tQNyU5OS2g4z_YAO-qPsf9U0JXHpyieteD1UOxRWzKPh-vOT47F7DVpKmHzd X-Yahoo-Profile: evils_heros Hi guys :) Just an SSP for 'Dance With Me' - a short story written fo= r a challenge over on HASA, and posted in the SWG LJ :). Mild slash, ju= st kissing, and containing some of my personal fave characters :D Enjoy! = Curuevo From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 329 Return-Path: X-Sender: maeglin.lomion@gmx.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50931 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2006 18:51:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2006 18:51:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.225) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2006 18:51:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n5.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 18:50:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 18:50:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 18:50:42 -0000 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 18:50:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Aearwen_=F3_Romendor?= Subject: Introduction of new member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228411408; y=c6ixwCThL0XR75rDD3Tk9NXu6Tbr6gMkMyUqKZU1HXazMtGfsRe9 X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 Hello! Ok, now I should introduce myself. My name is Marina, I am from Aust= ria (second language English, so please do not torture me if I make mistak= es from time to time). I do write fan fiction since several years but star= ted to publish last year. Since I am a so called "hard core" Silmarillion = fan (guess I could recite it backwards by now :)The topics of this group t= otally caught me. http://www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin/index.html is my Maeg= lin website. It contains an AU novel as well as a variety of other things.= I am writing right now on two major projects (each a novel itself). Both= go as side stories of the Silmarillion and the canon is woven into them. = In my other life (besides writing fan fiction) I work as a teacher for Ge= rman, World History, classical music. I am also a rabbit breeder and write= color genetical essays for the Veterinarian University. The place I am l= iving in looks like Gondolin in the 21st century. A city encircled by gian= t mountains and glaciers in the heart of Europe (where it is DARN cold rig= ht now). What brought me to the Silmarillion? A friend gave me the book in= 1991 and ever since, I am glued to it. Hugs Marina From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 330 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5897 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2006 02:25:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2006 02:25:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2006 02:25:50 -0000 Received: from smailcenter65.comcast.net ([204.127.205.165]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006012902254901200kf65ne>; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 02:25:49 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter65.comcast.net; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 02:25:48 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 02:25:48 +0000 Message-Id: <012920060225.27376.43DC27AC0009A35100006AF022070215530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27376_1138501548_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Introduction of new member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=D86owacbt0gvpGvG-3waZRgpNW15dmn0shpd7fYNI9dMJp9arMk0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27376_1138501548_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Marina! Welcome to the group! > My name is Marina, I am from Austria (second language English, so please do not torture me if I make mistakes from time to time). No problem. :) We're laid back and have lots of ESL members. Or people like me who just type to quickly or too late and night to be responsible for their rampant typos.... ;^P > I do write fan fiction since several years but started to publish last year. Since I am a so called "hard core" Silmarillion fan (guess I could recite it backwards by now :)The topics of this group totally caught me. http://www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin/index.html is my Maeglin website. It contains an AU novel as well as a variety of other things. I am writing right now on two major projects (each a novel itself). Both go as side stories of the Silmarillion and the canon is woven into them. This sounds familiar, right down to publishing starting last year, only my drug...*ahem*...Elves of choice tend to be the Feanorians. And my work also tends to ramble to the point of a novel. I have a couple of muses bound and gagged in the closet, hoping they'll leave me in peace to finish my original novel. We'll see. ;) Welcome again to you and I look forward to hearing Maeglin's perspective on things! ;) Warmest regards, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27376_1138501548_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, Marina!
Welcome to the group!
 
> My name is Marina, I am from Austria (second language English, so
please do not torture me if I make mistakes from time to time).
 
No problem. :) We're laid back and have lots of ESL members. Or people like me who just type to quickly or too late and night to be responsible for their rampant typos.... ;^P
 
> I do write fan fiction since several years but started to publish last year. Since I am a so called "hard core" Silmarillion fan (guess I could recite it backwards by now :)The topics of this group totally caught me. http://www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin/index.html is my Maeglin
website. It contains an AU novel as well as a variety of other things. I am writing right now on two major projects (each a novel itself). Both go as side stories of the Silmarillion and the canon is woven into them.
 
This sounds familiar, right down to publishing starting last year, only my drug...*ahem*...Elves of choice tend to be the Feanorians. And my work also tends to ramble to the point of a novel. I have a couple of muses bound and gagged in the closet, hoping they'll leave me in peace to finish my original novel. We'll see. ;)
 
Welcome again to you and I look forward to hearing Maeglin's perspective on things! ;)
Warmest regards,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27376_1138501548_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 331 Return-Path: X-Sender: enismirdal@caths.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89148 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2006 14:01:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2006 14:01:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.221) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2006 14:01:46 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2006 14:01:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2006 14:01:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2006 14:01:31 -0000 Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:01:29 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Enismirdal" Subject: Re: Introduction of new member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187516735; y=aE822dDA41lSxDsrBGtXu1OEiA4eDA8yixn-UT3VLKYC1ulo X-Yahoo-Profile: tentrevir Hi Marina! Welcome to the group! I'm a hopeless lurker here - I realised t= oday that I hadn't posted for aaages, so I thought I'd say hi to you and ho= pefully start commenting on this group more frequently! I like rabbits too= - what kind do you breed? I've just been reading your story "Lossfaeniel"= - Awwwww! You paint the family scene at the beginning so beautifully, and = I love the way you weave the story together like a real, traditional fairy-= tale! Oh, and cute ending! *giggle* I hope you have fun here! Eni --- In = SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Aearwen =F3 Romendor wrote: > > Hello! > Ok, now I should introduce myself. > My name = is Marina, I am from Austria (second language English, so > please do not = torture me if I make mistakes from time to time). From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 332 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36858 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2006 17:16:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2006 17:16:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2006 17:16:05 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 816ED137A08 for ; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:15:52 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:19:23 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1987831784.20060129181923@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <012820060715.17906.43DB1A120003E62B000045F222070215530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <012820060715.17906.43DB1A120003E62B000045F222070215530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silm character popularity questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=BHxFZ0BIA1WSM52A7BmcAUKxx1PKxKgdeFyPB_LahkDBlwQc1MA X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Hello everybody :) Nice idea to think of that. Dcn> Maglor, yes, or Maedhros? Given the number of Maedhros/Fingon fics in the slash Dcn> community, I think he gets a good deal of weight too. I agree, I would vote for Maedhros - and Fingon. But I can't be reliable source since these are the names I type first in every archive search engine ;) Or art portal. Dcn> Really? I would've gone with Fingon for the reason of Thangorodrim rescue fics and, again, the Dcn> slash card has to be played.... ;) Fingon, definitely Fingon. >> 5) Who is the most popular non-Finwion? I agree about Glorfindel. To see the real amount someone would have to devote their time and add the search engines results from various archives. But I don't think anyone is that bored to do it ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 333 Return-Path: X-Sender: maeglin.lomion@gmx.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29788 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2006 22:55:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2006 22:55:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2006 22:55:29 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2006 22:55:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2006 22:55:11 -0000 Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:55:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <012920060225.27376.43DC27AC0009A35100006AF022070215530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Aearwen_=F3_Romendor?= Subject: Re: Introduction of new member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228411408; y=xlUVrh9psqExJtPXnXRmrgDYls_y3HOVTTHkVM8iTzXHo_uuK6ly X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 Thanks Dawn, for the nice welcome. MAeglin's point of view of history is d= ifferent :)It drove me nuts to see him only always as the mean elf....The = fall of Gondolin was important for elvendom. And without Maeglin, no Fall.= ... I love the Feanorians..I wrote an extreme steamy smutty thing for a c= hallenge about Maglor and Maedhros meeting a lady. I prefer to write adven= tures, whole life stories, side stories to Tolkien's work, but the audienc= e seems often to prefer smut...and there we go. But even in those things I= try to brign as much as possible information about life, circustances..an= d history in. Where do you post your stories? Marina > Hi, Marina! > Welc= ome to the group! > > > al years but started to From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 334 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82237 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2006 23:00:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2006 23:00:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2006 23:00:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2006 23:00:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2006 23:00:09 -0000 Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 23:00:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Aearwen_=F3_Romendor?= Subject: Re: Introduction of new member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=H93R2_2FwGKgdJgGqj9jaoXGqxruqd7p7UCKTcrfk8uWbtCRnUbk X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 Hi there! > Hi Marina! > ! > > I like rabbits too - what kind do you bre= ed? I breed US Mini Rex. Imported them to Europe to get the breed accepte= d. I do have currently 50 rabbits (babies not counted) and you can see the= m under www.kleinrex.com > > I've just been reading your story "Lossfaeni= el" - Awwwww! You paint > the family scene at the beginning so beautifully,= and I love the way > you weave the story together like a real, traditiona= l fairy-tale! Oh, > and cute ending! *giggle* Thank you for reading it! I= t happened that my daugther wanted an elven tale. So, of course I found no= ne out there on the webs...I went to write them myself and of course had t= o embed them into a Maeglin story :) I am sure I will love it here. MArin= a > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 335 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1643 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 00:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 00:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 00:05:14 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 00:05:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 00:05:06 -0000 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 00:05:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Introduction of new member-Marina X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=q0HY_G2Gbe_nStlgmIcIBBHR13Y6LGeRB0cxQEhDGyJ0-bBykM8 X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Welcome to the club! Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 336 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91789 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 00:14:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 00:14:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 00:14:08 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 00:14:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 00:14:05 -0000 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 00:14:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Need help with Moriquendi Issues X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=vYK0eg5MMRMMXuF1GEH1bC_c8VuySl86tbGkBqQSvC7sXBzwWGU X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I have begun a story that involves Moriquendi and takes place before Doriat= h was formed or right around that time. First of all, does anyone know if= Beleg and Mablung were serving Thingol when Doriath was formed? Second o= f all, does anyone know which of the Moriquendi lived in trees (like the Ga= ladhrim)? Were the Galadhrim the only ones or were there other tree dweller= s as well? Third of all, I need someone who's comfy with the Moriquendi to= pretty please with a cherry on top take a look at my one chapter I've writ= ten so far (maybe 3 pages long) and tell me to which Moriquendi group the e= lves described in this chapter would belong most likely and where they woul= d be located on the map of Beleriand. I know it's an odd request, but it's= an odd story. I like mixing the sand from differnt sand boxes and seeing w= hat I can come up with. Whoever gets blessed or cursed with reading my chap= ter will understand. Thanks! Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 337 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50376 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 08:47:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 08:47:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.69) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 08:47:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 10046 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 08:46:18 -0000 Received: from m173p007.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.189.135]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub72.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 30 Jan 2006 08:46:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43DDD272.000001.03592@MARINA> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:46:42 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_UPDWQL80000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: 7BF381D7-FEE3-48EA-8FE2-56AF936ABA49 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Need help with Moriquendi Issues X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=VlDHgjBONaObknoM4oeFA8C86_Nrk_2gkBu1uuZtf2AxKY7a6bjt X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_UPDWQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_UPDWLVC0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_UPDWLVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Mablung and Beleg were Elu Thingol's marchwardens, so when the girdle was = made, they were there. Matter of fact, that his people waited and waited, w= hile Thingol was holding hands in Nan Elmoth, I am sure that Beleg and Mabl= ung were already there :) The Galdadhrim lived in Telain like later also the elves of the woodland r= ealm. Elu Thingol's people lived in the thousand caves and probably many ot= her elven tribes too, because when the Sindar started to mix with the Noldo= r they tended to move into caves, houses.... E=F6l in Nan Elmoth lived in a= house and not in the trees either...so, I am guessing, they would not be i= n the trees. If you email it to me privately, I am more than willing to look through fo= r you :) Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: ellfine2000 Date: 01/30/06 01:14:19 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Need help with Moriquendi Issues =20 I have begun a story that involves Moriquendi and takes place before Doriath was formed or right around that time. =20 First of all, does anyone know if Beleg and Mablung were serving Thingol when Doriath was formed? =20 Second of all, does anyone know which of the Moriquendi lived in trees (like the Galadhrim)? Were the Galadhrim the only ones or were there other tree dwellers as well? =20 Third of all, I need someone who's comfy with the Moriquendi to pretty please with a cherry on top take a look at my one chapter I've written so far (maybe 3 pages long) and tell me to which Moriquendi group the elves described in this chapter would belong most likely and where they would be located on the map of Beleriand. =20 I know it's an odd request, but it's an odd story. I like mixing the sand from differnt sand boxes and seeing what I can come up with. Whoever gets blessed or cursed with reading my chapter will understand. Thanks! Ellie =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_UPDWLVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = =
Hi,
Mablung and Beleg were Elu Thingol's = marchwardens, so when the girdle was made, they were there. Matter&nbs= p;of fact, that his people waited and waited, while Thingol was holdin= g hands in Nan Elmoth, I am sure that Beleg and Mablung were already t= here :)
 
The Galdadhrim lived in Telain li= ke later also the elves of the woodland realm. Elu Thingol's people li= ved in the thousand caves and probably many other elven tribes too, be= cause when the Sindar started to mix with the Noldor they tended to move in= to caves, houses.... E=F6l in Nan Elmoth lived in a house and not = ;in the trees either...so, I am guessing, they would not be in the tre= es.
 
If you email it to me privately, I am more= than willing to look through for you :)
Marina 
 
-------Original Message--= -----
 
Date: 01/30/06 01:14:19
Subject: [SilmarillionWriter= sGuild] Need help with Moriquendi Issues
 
I have begun a story that involves Moriquendi and takes place before=
Doriath was formed or right around that time.
 
=
First of all, does anyone know if Beleg and Mablung were serving
Thingol when Doriath was formed?
 
Second= of all, does anyone know which of the Moriquendi lived in trees
(like the Galadhrim)? Were the Galadhrim the only ones or were there
=
other tree dwellers as well?
 
Third of al= l, I need someone who's comfy with the Moriquendi to pretty
plea= se with a cherry on top take a look at my one chapter I've written
so far (maybe 3 pages long) and tell me to which Moriquendi group the
elves described in this chapter would belong most likely and where=
they would be located on the map of Beleriand.
 = ;
I know it's an odd request, but it's an odd story. I like mixi= ng the
sand from differnt sand boxes and seeing what I can come = up with.
Whoever gets blessed or cursed with reading my chapter = will understand.
Thanks!
Ellie
 
 
 
 
 
<= DIV> 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
<= *> To visit your group on the web, go to:
 =
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups= is subject to:
&nbs= p;
 
 
 
 <= /DIV>
3D"Add= --------------Boundary-00=_UPDWLVC0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_UPDWQL80000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 338 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32612 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 08:51:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 08:51:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.94) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 08:51:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 18770 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 08:50:52 -0000 Received: from m173p007.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.189.135]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub73.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 30 Jan 2006 08:50:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43DDD384.000007.03592@MARINA> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:51:16 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_GXDWWCW0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: 7BF381D7-FEE3-48EA-8FE2-56AF936ABA49 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Introduction of new member-Marina X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=HiN4ifZWRA6jBR_K0iXpR1S-PI729j7iS-h5RyENJfwXLLfTpAw6 X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_GXDWWCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_GXDWRN00000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_GXDWRN00000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Ellie! MArina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: ellfine2000 Date: 01/30/06 01:05:18 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Introduction of new member-Marina =20 Welcome to the club! =20 Ellie =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 . --------------Boundary-00=_GXDWRN00000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Thank you Ellie!
MArina 
 = ;
-------Original Message-------<= /I>
 
<= B>Date: 01/30/06 01:05:18
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild]= Re: Introduction of new member-Marina
 
W= elcome to the club!
 
Ellie
 
 
 
 
 
=
 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
&l= t;*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
&nbs= p;
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Grou= ps is subject to:
&n= bsp;
 
 
 
.
=
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_GXDWRN00000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_GXDWWCW0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 339 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21011 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 15:15:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 15:15:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 15:15:49 -0000 Received: from smailcenter61.comcast.net ([204.127.205.161]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006013015152301200kilu1e>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:15:23 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter61.comcast.net; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:15:21 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:15:21 +0000 Message-Id: <013020061515.21707.43DE2D88000A3CA0000054CB22058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21707_1138634121_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Introduction of new member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=O0KVRdr2xXyqE8OrfVM4OdU4JnOlghsQhQp0nknpl_Zy3bkAZy2v X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21707_1138634121_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Marina wrote: > MAeglin's point of view of history is different :)It drove me nuts to see him only always as the mean elf....The fall of Gondolin was important for elvendom. And without Maeglin, no Fall.... I couldn't agree more. :) I have gotten stuck in debates like this several times with people, though never about Maeglin yet but always Feanor, who's much the same. Flat "evil" characterization in general tends to drive me nuts; nothing makes a story unmemorable faster, in my opinion anyway. I've yet to write Maeglin, although explaining his story to my husband one day, I had to admit that I probably will, for the reasons you say: He's a nicely complicated and important character, and it's frustrating to see him always reduced to the demon in stories. Even if one disagrees with what he did, I don't think that he can be written off as evil and without his reasons. As a totally random aside, I've named my iPod "Maeglin," and he seems to like randomly selecting New Order's "Bizarre Love Triangle." :^)) Appropriate, I think! > I love the Feanorians..I wrote an extreme steamy smutty thing for a challenge about Maglor and Maedhros meeting a lady. I prefer to write adventures, whole life stories, side stories to Tolkien's work, but the audience seems often to prefer smut...and there we go. I sympathize. :) I found myself with many requests for Elf pr0n this year when I offered to write stories for people as holiday gifts. Actually, after I'm finished answering my email, I'm off to work on a smutty tale for a friend as a belated birthday gift. Any chance of a link to said steamy smutty thing? :^D > Where do you post your stories? I have a whopping one story up at ff.net and also at Tolkien Fanfiction! The rest is all still living in my LiveJournal at the moment, as I lack the time for proper revision and am a hopeless perfectionist. The only reason that one story got posted at all was because we'd decided to name January as Finarfin Appreciation Month, and so I was sharing the Finarfin love (against the wishes of my nitpicky muses). All of my stories are linked on my userinfo page at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund. I hope to start revising/posting my Feanorian novel outside of my LJ sometime soon (but I started saying that six months ago). Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21707_1138634121_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Marina wrote:
> MAeglin's point of view of history is different :)It drove me nuts to see him only always as the mean elf....The fall of Gondolin was important for elvendom. And without Maeglin, no Fall....
 
I couldn't agree more. :) I have gotten stuck in debates like this several times with people, though never about Maeglin yet but always Feanor, who's much the same. Flat "evil" characterization in general tends to drive me nuts; nothing makes a story unmemorable faster, in my opinion anyway.
 
I've yet to write Maeglin, although explaining his story to my husband one day, I had to admit that I probably will, for the reasons you say: He's a nicely complicated and important character, and it's frustrating to see him always reduced to the demon in stories. Even if one disagrees with what he did, I don't think that he can be written off as evil and without his reasons.
 
As a totally random aside, I've named my iPod "Maeglin," and he seems to like randomly selecting New Order's "Bizarre Love Triangle." :^)) Appropriate, I think!
 
> I love the Feanorians..I wrote an extreme steamy smutty thing for a challenge about Maglor and Maedhros meeting a lady. I prefer to write adventures, whole life stories, side stories to Tolkien's work, but the audience seems often to prefer smut...and there we go.
 
I sympathize. :) I found myself with many requests for Elf pr0n this year when I offered to write stories for people as holiday gifts. Actually, after I'm finished answering my email, I'm off to work on a smutty tale for a friend as a belated birthday gift.
 
Any chance of a link to said steamy smutty thing? :^D
 
> Where do you post your stories?
I have a whopping one story up at ff.net and also at Tolkien Fanfiction! The rest is all still living in my LiveJournal at the moment, as I lack the time for proper revision and am a hopeless perfectionist. The only reason that one story got posted at all was because we'd decided to name January as Finarfin Appreciation Month, and so I was sharing the Finarfin love (against the wishes of my nitpicky muses).
 
All of my stories are linked on my userinfo page at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund. I hope to start revising/posting my Feanorian novel outside of my LJ sometime soon (but I started saying that six months ago).
Best regards,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21707_1138634121_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 340 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48852 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 16:08:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 16:08:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.90) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 16:08:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 7576 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 16:07:22 -0000 Received: from m090p014.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.179.46]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub78.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 30 Jan 2006 16:07:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43DE39D1.000007.02700@MARINA> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:07:45 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_X4YWWCW0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <013020061515.21707.43DE2D88000A3CA0000054CB22058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: ] Re: Introduction of new member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=m3k8dhmnw8cWlsowfUboYnVME3tCmesL5e3-ssb5wcN_sooTcU7K X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_X4YWWCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 I couldn't agree more. :) I have gotten stuck in debates like this several= times with people, though never about Maeglin yet but always Feanor, who's= much the same. Flat "evil" characterization in general tends to drive me n= uts; nothing makes a story unmemorable faster, in my opinion anyway. =20 I write mainly Maeglin fiction, often with the canon and sometimes AU. I w= rote this 10 month project called: The Return of the Fallen, where Maeglin = gets his second chance.We all know about the reforging of Narsil. Nobody to= ld us WHO did it. And looking at the elves of the third age, there was none= known, who could have done it. I hope not to offend anyone, but often I ha= ve the feeling that the elves of later ages did not care anymore, were slig= htly boring compared to the ones of the first age. All the smiths of elvend= om were long in the halls of Mandos. And to reforge the weapon of old, only= one had the power. =20 I've yet to write Maeglin, although explaining his story to my husband one= day, I had to admit that I probably will, for the reasons you say: He's a = nicely complicated and important character, and it's frustrating to see him= always reduced to the demon in stories. Even if one disagrees with what he= did, I don't think that he can be written off as evil and without his reas= ons. My husband suffers through my Maeglin obsession but he wrote the check for= the variety of paintings that we have by now. He is not very fond of elves= , but understands that I write. He betas even some of my smut :) that I wri= te. .(Nan Elmoth Diaries at OSA) "My" Maeglin (meaning the way I write him) is a little rough around the ed= ges, a "manly man", a crafts man and serious, though able to love and not a= ll dark...some darkness I let him have.=20 =20 =20 I sympathize. :) I found myself with many requests for Elf pr0n this year = when I offered to write stories for people as holiday gifts. Actually, afte= r I'm finished answering my email, I'm off to work on a smutty tale for a f= riend as a belated birthday gift. The Feanorians are wonderful to write. Do you happen to know Ithilwen (tho= ugh she has not updated in a while). I admire her characterizations, her wa= y of writing and that unbelievable background knowledge that she has. Gosh = you should read her MAedhros, Caranthir....awesome. And perfectly mixed wi= th canon. When I stumbled across her first, I thought of having found a sid= e story to the Silmarillion.=20 =20 Any chance of a link to said steamy smutty thing? :^D Sure!!!!! http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2467 or at http:/= /swoon.dreamelf.com/viewstory.php?sid=3D332 and hopefully soon on my Maegli= n website http://www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin/index.html=20 Hope you like it.... I gave up the perfectionist, when my betas let me run into a wall. But I s= oon will work "The Return of the Fallen" over, because now a half year afte= r finishing I found many things that bothered me and that escaped me and my= betas first. So, who are you muses...do you have space for the whole gang? I only keep Maeglin, because he turns my life upside down enough and somet= imes I hire an elf for musing: Gildor, Saelbeth, Erestor (named Gilgaron in= my first age project), Fingon, Maedhros.....I have even a little story on = the website (really a little silly story) how the muse and I found each oth= er (I was so fed up with the bdsm, incest stories about Maeglin, even I sti= ll admire some of the writers for their background info) =20 All of my stories are linked on my userinfo page at http://www.livejournal= com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund. I hope to start revising/posting my= Feanorian novel outside of my LJ sometime soon (but I started saying that = six months ago). Oh, I will have a look and read. Under which name do you post and Tolkien = Fanfiction and FF.net so that I can leave you a feedback and can rate? Cheers MArina Best regards, --------------Boundary-00=_X4YWWCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
I couldn't agree more. :) I have gotten stuck in debates like this sever= al times with people, though never about Maeglin yet but always Feanor, who= 's much the same. Flat "evil" characterization in general tends to drive me= nuts; nothing makes a story unmemorable faster, in my opinion anyway.
 
I write mainly Maeglin fiction, ofte= n with the canon and sometimes AU. I wrote this 10 month project called: Th= e Return of the Fallen, where Maeglin gets his second chance.We all know about the reforging of Narsil. Nobody told us WH= O did it. And looking at the elves of the third age, there was none known, = who could have done it. I hope not to offend anyone, but often I have the f= eeling that the elves of later ages did not care anymore, were slightly bor= ing compared to the ones of the first age. All the smiths of elvendom were long in the hall= s of Mandos. And to reforge the weapon of old, only one had the power.
 
I've yet = to write Maeglin, although explaining his story to my husband one day, I ha= d to admit that I probably will, for the reasons you say: He's a nicely com= plicated and important character, and it's frustrating to see him always re= duced to the demon in stories. Even if one disagrees with what he did, I do= n't think that he can be written off as evil and without his reasons.
 
My husband su= ffers through my Maeglin obsession but he wrote the check for the variety o= f paintings that we have by now. He is not very fond of elves, but understa= nds that I write. He betas even some of my smut :) that I write...(Nan Elmo= th Diaries at OSA)
=  
"My" Maeglin (meaning the = way I write him) is a little rough around the edges, a "manly man", a craft= s man and serious, though able to love and not all dark...some darkness I l= et him have.
 
 
I sympathiz= e. :) I found myself with many requests for Elf pr0n this year when I offer= ed to write stories for people as holiday gifts. Actually, after I'm finish= ed answering my email, I'm off to work on a smutty tale for a friend as a b= elated birthday gift.
 
The Feanorians are wonderful to write. Do you happen to know = Ithilwen (though she has not updated in a while). I admire her characteriza= tions, her way of writing and that unbelievable background knowledge that s= he has. Gosh, you should read her MAedhros, Caranthir....awesome. And perfe= ctly mixed with canon. When I stumbled across her first, I thought of havin= g found a side story to the Silmarillion.
 
Any chance of a link to said steamy smutty thing? := ^D
Hope you like it....
 
 
 
I gave up the perfectionist, when my betas let me run into a wall.= But I soon will work "The Return of the Fallen" over, because now a half y= ear after finishing I found many things that bothered me and that escaped m= e and my betas first.
 
So, who are you muses...do you have space for the whole gang?=
I only keep Maeglin, because he = turns my life upside down enough and sometimes I hire an elf for musing: Gi= ldor, Saelbeth, Erestor (named Gilgaron in my first age project), Fingon, M= aedhros.....I have even a little story on the website (really a little sill= y story) how the muse and I found each other (I was so fed up with the bdsm= , incest stories about Maeglin, even I still admire some of the writers for= their background info)
 
All of my stories are linked on my userinfo page at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user= =3Ddawn_felagund. I = hope to start revising/posting my Feanorian novel outside of my LJ sometime= soon (but I started saying that six months ago).
 <= /DIV>
Oh, I will have a look and read. = Under which name do you post and Tolkien Fanfiction and FF.net so that I ca= n leave you a feedback and can rate?
 
Cheers
MArina
&n= bsp;
 
Best regards,
<= TR> =
=3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_X4YWWCW0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 341 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21765 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 19:32:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 19:32:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 19:32:12 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E4E137910 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:32:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:35:39 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <134035813.20060130203539@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <013020061515.21707.43DE2D88000A3CA0000054CB22058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <013020061515.21707.43DE2D88000A3CA0000054CB22058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Introduction of new member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=3065kHZZWWrnvMF7fOVUWSIkSYBLSfIlSRTOY_hWZMbHW3YN3pY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle >> Where do you post your stories? Maybe that is too obvious, so no one said it? People post stories in the group's Live Journal account. [And also in their's journals and in their web sites and in various archives). Maybe this info is at group's start page at yahoo, maybe not, I don't remember, so don't scold me ;) The journal is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/ Maeglin is welcome :) Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 342 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61877 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 19:45:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 19:45:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.94) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 19:45:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 16168 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 19:44:27 -0000 Received: from m104p027.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.180.251]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub73.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 30 Jan 2006 19:44:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43DE6CB2.000016.00164@MARINA> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:44:50 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_Q68XTSM1VA4000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <134035813.20060130203539@tlen.pl> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Introduction of new member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=DcqWbsmLBRuY_KuSrbGxlikytPPjNt3kuLLQ_bC1VCu0fEivFgwO X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_Q68XTSM1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No, please do not beat me *ducks* but being stupid, when it comes to livejo= urnal....how do I post there? Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Sirielle Date: 01/30/06 20:32:21 To: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Introduction of new member =20 >> Where do you post your stories? =20 Maybe that is too obvious, so no one said it? People post stories i= n the group's Live Journal account. [And also in their's journals and in their web sites and in var= ious archives). Maybe this info is at group's start page at yahoo, maybe not, I don't remember= , so don't scold me ;) The journal is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/ Maeglin= is welcome :) =20 =20 Sirielle =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 . --------------Boundary-00=_Q68XTSM1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = <= /TBODY>
No, please do not beat me *ducks* but being stupid, when it comes t= o livejournal....how do I post there?
Marina 
&n= bsp;
-------Original Message-----= --
 
From: Sirielle
Date:= 01/30/06 20:32:21
Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Introductio= n of new member
 
>> Where do you po= st your stories?
 
Maybe  that &n= bsp;is  too  obvious,  so  no =  one said it? People post stories in the group's Live Journal
account.  [And  also in their's journals and in thei= r web sites and in various archives). Maybe this
info  = ;is  at  group's  start  page =  at  yahoo, maybe not, I don't remember, so don't scold me ;= ) The
journal is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/ = Maeglin is welcome :)
 
 
Siriel= le
 
 
 
 <= /DIV>
 
 
 
 
 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
= <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
&n= bsp;
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:=
 
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Gr= oups is subject to:
=  
 
 
 
.
3D"Add<= /HTML> --------------Boundary-00=_Q68XTSM1VA4000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 343 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10008 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 19:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 19:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.202.56) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 19:53:06 -0000 Received: from smailcenter61.comcast.net ([204.127.205.161]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006013019525001200keagbe>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:52:50 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter61.comcast.net; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:52:49 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:52:49 +0000 Message-Id: <013020061952.2838.43DE6E9100071EAB00000B1622058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_2838_1138650769_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Introduction of new member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=YCI9rtYDNUc_iwJpJ2ifroEjtzWOaM1LuFODlUOWPasEPO8XJjXE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_2838_1138650769_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Marina, You are not stupid at all! LJ is quite the beast to the uninitiated (and that was me, up until very recently, so I feel your pain). But once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy. The only prerequisite to post in our community journal is to have an LJ account. The free variety will do just fine! Anyone with an LJ account can post in our journal; you do not have to be a member of the community. The easiest way to go about posting is to visit our userinfo page at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. At the top, under the heading "Community Information" is a toolbar. The second button on the toolbar is a little blue pencil; if you click that button, a fresh page will open up that will post directly to the silwritersguild community. On the same userinfo page linked above are links to our posting format and other tidbits that might be generally useful. If you have any problems (and this goes for everyone!) please, please, please do not hesitate to contact me, either on the list or in private at DawnFelagund@comcast.net. There is no such thing as a stupid question, and I am always happy to help. Best wishes to all! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_2838_1138650769_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, Marina,
You are not stupid at all! LJ is quite the beast to the uninitiated (and that was me, up until very recently, so I feel your pain). But once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy.
 
The only prerequisite to post in our community journal is to have an LJ account. The free variety will do just fine! Anyone with an LJ account can post in our journal; you do not have to be a member of the community.
 
The easiest way to go about posting is to visit our userinfo page at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. At the top, under the heading "Community Information" is a toolbar. The second button on the toolbar is a little blue pencil; if you click that button, a fresh page will open up that will post directly to the silwritersguild community.
 
On the same userinfo page linked above are links to our posting format and other tidbits that might be generally useful.
 
If you have any problems (and this goes for everyone!) please, please, please do not hesitate to contact me, either on the list or in private at DawnFelagund@comcast.net. There is no such thing as a stupid question, and I am always happy to help.
Best wishes to all!
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_2838_1138650769_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 344 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87729 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 20:49:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 20:49:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 20:49:32 -0000 Received: from smailcenter61.comcast.net ([204.127.205.161]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006013020111101100hqjs3e>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:11:11 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter61.comcast.net; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:11:08 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:11:08 +0000 Message-Id: <013020062011.27931.43DE72DB000B0F6E00006D1B22058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27931_1138651868_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] ] Re: Introduction of new member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=E-CcN9TaOQDnNvYyeS_NEqAM4obVEzwCRYxTnxhqA0Z-LtiqEesm X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27931_1138651868_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Marina wrote: > We all know about the reforging of Narsil. Nobody told us WHO did it. This is a very interesting point. I'd always figured it was one of Celebrimbor's little crafting club (the precise name of said crafting club eludes me at the moment, and I seem to have left my book at home.) > He is not very fond of elves, but understands that I write. He betas even some of my smut :) that I write...(Nan Elmoth Diaries at OSA) :^D Your husband betas your smut! That is simply awesome! My husband just "doesn't get" the Elf obsession. He likes to irritate me by comparing Elves to the heavy metal hair bands of the '80s. (His most recent--rather heinous--comparison was drawn to Poison. o.O) But then, I don't get some of his obsessions, so we tease each other about it sometimes and go along the rest of the time. He claims not to read my smut...I have yet to decide if I believe him. ;) He and I RP together in another group that also functions through LJ, so he has an LJ account and is on my friends' list. Since I post my stories in my LJ, he has access to them, but he claims that he doesn't read it. Heh. > The Feanorians are wonderful to write. Do you happen to know Ithilwen (though she has not updated in a while). Ithilwen was one of the first authors I really admired when I discovered Silmfic. (She's on this list too, incidentally! *waves to Ithilwen*) I admire her stories a lot, and her shameless Feanorian obsession helped to inspire *my* shameless Feanorian obsession! > Hope you like it.... Thank you! Teh Boss has just left the office, leaving one Dawn Felagund alone to do what she would like for the remaining hour-and-a-half of her workday.... >:^] > So, who are you muses...do you have space for the whole gang? Yeah, there's quite a few of them. I have muses for all of the Feanorians so far except for the twins, who I haven't had featured in a story yet. I have quite an admant Finarfin muse and a pretty decent Fingolfin muse, and their wives also like to chat on occasion. And of course, Fingon, Finrod, comic!Orodreth, Finwe, Miriel, Indis, Elladan, Elrohir, Glorfindel, Ecthelion.... Ai, I sound like a sick woman.... Oh, and there's original!fic Elf muses there too, but they tend to get beaten up by the Feanorians. > (I was so fed up with the bdsm, incest stories about Maeglin, even I still admire some of the writers for their background info) That was me with Feanor, although it was less an issue of incest and BDSM than people writing him as pretty much an evil character, incapable of love, teeming with madness...or worse, an abusive father and husband. To each his/her own, but I see so much more to his story than that, and I cannot believe that he could inspire the sorts of loyalty that he did if he was always heartless. I think of Maeglin much of the same way, incidentally, and Eol too, as well, though to a lesser degree, as we know so little of his backstory. Frighteningly enough, I even found myself defending Melkor on a discussion on another list. o.O It seems I have a soft spot for the baddies! (Or at least those who act bad on occasion, such as Feanor.) > Under which name do you post and Tolkien Fanfiction and FF.net so that I can leave you a feedback and can rate? I am Dawn Felagund at both places. Heck, I am Dawn Felagund everywhere! (Sometimes, I almost slip and answer my office phone "Dawn Felagund," truth be told. :^P) Have a good day, Dawn Felagund :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27931_1138651868_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Marina wrote:
> We all know about the reforging of Narsil. Nobody told us WHO did it.
 
This is a very interesting point. I'd always figured it was one of Celebrimbor's little crafting club (the precise name of said crafting club eludes me at the moment, and I seem to have left my book at home.)
 
> He is not very fond of elves, but understands that I write. He betas even some of my smut :) that I write...(Nan Elmoth Diaries at OSA)
 
:^D Your husband betas your smut! That is simply awesome! My husband just "doesn't get" the Elf obsession. He likes to irritate me by comparing Elves to the heavy metal hair bands of the '80s. (His most recent--rather heinous--comparison was drawn to Poison. o.O) But then, I don't get some of his obsessions, so we tease each other about it sometimes and go along the rest of the time.
 
He claims not to read my smut...I have yet to decide if I believe him. ;) He and I RP together in another group that also functions through LJ, so he has an LJ account and is on my friends' list. Since I post my stories in my LJ, he has access to them, but he claims that he doesn't read it. Heh.
 
> The Feanorians are wonderful to write. Do you happen to know Ithilwen (though she has not updated in a while).
 
Ithilwen was one of the first authors I really admired when I discovered Silmfic. (She's on this list too, incidentally! *waves to Ithilwen*) I admire her stories a lot, and her shameless Feanorian obsession helped to inspire *my* shameless Feanorian obsession!
 
> Hope you like it....
 
Thank you! Teh Boss has just left the office, leaving one Dawn Felagund alone to do what she would like for the remaining hour-and-a-half of her workday.... >:^]
 
> So, who are you muses...do you have space for the whole gang?
 
Yeah, there's quite a few of them. I have muses for all of the Feanorians so far except for the twins, who I haven't had featured in a story yet. I have quite an admant Finarfin muse and a pretty decent Fingolfin muse, and their wives also like to chat on occasion. And of course, Fingon, Finrod, comic!Orodreth, Finwe, Miriel, Indis, Elladan, Elrohir, Glorfindel, Ecthelion....
 
Ai, I sound like a sick woman....
 
Oh, and there's original!fic Elf muses there too, but they tend to get beaten up by the Feanorians.
 
> (I was so fed up with the bdsm, incest stories about Maeglin, even I still admire some of the writers for their background info)
 
That was me with Feanor, although it was less an issue of incest and BDSM than people writing him as pretty much an evil character, incapable of love, teeming with madness...or worse, an abusive father and husband. To each his/her own, but I see so much more to his story than that, and I cannot believe that he could inspire the sorts of loyalty that he did if he was always heartless. I think of Maeglin much of the same way, incidentally, and Eol too, as well, though to a lesser degree, as we know so little of his backstory. Frighteningly enough, I even found myself defending Melkor on a discussion on another list. o.O It seems I have a soft spot for the baddies! (Or at least those who act bad on occasion, such as Feanor.)
 
> Under which name do you post and Tolkien Fanfiction and FF.net so that I can leave you a feedback and can rate?
 
I am Dawn Felagund at both places. Heck, I am Dawn Felagund everywhere! (Sometimes, I almost slip and answer my office phone "Dawn Felagund," truth be told. :^P)
Have a good day,
Dawn Felagund :)
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27931_1138651868_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 345 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39510 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 21:17:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 21:17:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 21:17:06 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D085137982 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:16:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:20:27 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <128445195.20060130222027@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <013020062011.27931.43DE72DB000B0F6E00006D1B22058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <013020062011.27931.43DE72DB000B0F6E00006D1B22058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Gwaith-i-Mirdain X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=vYoiZYUBZDsZecsJVnMQB9xIV9FT-SevEsod77ruEkAVqEk6OQY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai DawnFelagund, Dcn> (the precise name of said crafting club eludes me at the moment, and I seem to have left my Dcn> book at home.) Gwaith-i-M�rdain :) BTW people, are there any more resources about the Mirdain except the short info in the Silmarillion? I need to know more of them, so please direct me if you know any other resources! PS. Dawn, where is the mail you answer to? I didn't get it... Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 346 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52251 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 22:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 22:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc14.comcast.net) (63.240.77.84) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 22:22:37 -0000 Received: from smailcenter61.comcast.net ([204.127.205.161]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2006013021252801400g9b6le>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:25:28 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter61.comcast.net; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:25:27 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:25:27 +0000 Message-Id: <013020062125.21919.43DE84470007B39C0000559F22058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21919_1138656327_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Gwaith-i-Mirdain X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=ogn_xtvKEfA5___rQdu-3ruXXlMb935ZnAbBQNHca9aOKvKpJ8A5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21919_1138656327_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> Dcn> (the precise name of said crafting club eludes me at the moment, and I seem to have left my book at home.) > Gwaith-i-M�rdain :) Thanks, Sirielle! :) I can never remember that name. > BTW people, are there any more resources about the Mirdain except the short info in the Silmarillion? I need to know more of them, so please direct me if you know any other resources! The only one of which I know offhand is "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age," although I seem to recollect reading of them somewhere else. In "Of Galadriel and Celeborn" in UT, perhaps? But even so, I don't recall ever seeing more than a passing mention, although I am admittedly not well-versed in the HoMe books. Anyone else have any insights? :( <--that's my pleading face > PS. Dawn, where is the mail you answer to? I didn't get it... Hmmm...it was Marina's reply to me in the "Introduction by a New Member" thread, talking about Maeglin and the forging of Narsil and the apathy of Third Age Elves. (Sorry to Marina for the less-than-perfect summary!) Perhaps Yahoo hasn't delivered it to you yet; lately, I've been getting mail from my Yahoo groups out-of-order and also sometimes hours after it's been sent. But I know for a fact that it's in the Messages section of our Yahoo homepage 'cause I just looked at it there to get links to Maedhros and Maglor smut.... ;) Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21919_1138656327_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>> Dcn> (the  precise  name  of  said crafting club eludes me at the moment, and I seem to have left my book at home.)

> Gwaith-i-M�rdain :)
Thanks, Sirielle! :) I can never remember that name.
 
> BTW  people,  are  there  any  more  resources  about  the  Mirdain  except  the  short  info in the Silmarillion? I need to know more of them, so please direct me if you know any
other resources!
 
The only one of which I know offhand is "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age," although I seem to recollect reading of them somewhere else. In "Of Galadriel and Celeborn" in UT, perhaps? But even so, I don't recall ever seeing more than a passing mention, although I am admittedly not well-versed in the HoMe books.
 
Anyone else have any insights? :( <--that's my pleading face
 
> PS. Dawn, where is the mail you answer to? I didn't get it...
 
Hmmm...it was Marina's reply to me in the "Introduction by a New Member" thread, talking about Maeglin and the forging of Narsil and the apathy of Third Age Elves. (Sorry to Marina for the less-than-perfect summary!) Perhaps Yahoo hasn't delivered it to you yet; lately, I've been getting mail from my Yahoo groups out-of-order and also sometimes hours after it's been sent. But I know for a fact that it's in the Messages section of our Yahoo homepage 'cause I just looked at it there to get links to Maedhros and Maglor smut.... ;)
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21919_1138656327_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 347 Return-Path: X-Sender: a_tehta@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48399 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 13:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 13:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 13:06:00 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2006 13:04:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2006 13:04:18 -0000 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:04:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "a_tehta" Subject: Re: Silm character popularity questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=172959048; y=vvlryIxN9dyyJi91a3xVqbZHuVxRmhaBtuCR7YCUGwpIvg X-Yahoo-Profile: a_tehta Is it all right if I join in? First of all--the answers to (some of) these= questions will no doubt be different in different subgroups of the fandom,= and also across time. (Characters do seem to go up and down in popularity,= say I with my *ancient* two years of fandom experience... well, three if y= ou count lurking.) Also, we could try to resolve this by doing searches in= the popular archives and counting up the hits. However, I am too lazy. > = I was hunting for something to read tonight, and began to wonder just > who= are the most popular Silm characters as far as number of tales > about the= m is concerned. My guesses are below. What do you think? > > 1) Who is the= most popular Feanorian? > > In my opinon it's Maglor. I would have said = Maedhros. > 2) Who is the most popular of the Moriquendi? > > Celeborn or= Thingol. Legolas, surely? Or do we not count him? If we're Silm-only, Bel= eg might be another possibility. Or Daeron: he's kind of like the Maglor of= Doriath. Many fics have them meet up, actually. > 3) Who is the most popu= lar of the Finwions who aren't Feanorians? > > Gil-galad for House of Fing= olfin (I know it is a subject of debate as > to which house he actually bel= ongs, but most fanfic attributes him to > Fingolfin's house) and Finrod for= House of Finarfin. I would say Finrod overall. Everybody loooves Finrod. = > 4) What are the most popular events in the Silm according to fanfic > a= uthors? > > Kinslaying at Alqualonde and Fall of Gondolin Like Dawn said,= the torment/rescue/recovery of Maedhros are topics that most the authors I= read seem to have handled. But, yes, the Fall is insanely popular. So popu= lar that I am sitting on my hands so as not to write about the whole thing,= since Everything I Could Possibly Say Has Been Said. I have not seen all = that much of Alqualonde or the Ice, though. Hardly anything, actually. Any = recs? (If there's enough, I sense some Mithril categories in the making...)= > 5) Who is the most popular non-Finwion? > > Glorfindel I would have = to agree completely. As with Finrod, everybody loooves Glorfindel. I have = in the past amused myself for doing Elfwood picture searches for all my mus= es, and Glorfindel won by a large margin. (And some of he other Gondolindri= m had zero, too tragic.) And I'm pretty sure Maedhros beats Maglor, there. = It's the hair, I think. > Any other most populars that anyone can think of= ? Most popular female character? (Are any female characters popular?) Pro= bably Galadriel, no? Most popular pairings? Slash would obviously be Maed= hros/Fingon, het would be... er... Feanor/Nerdanel? T From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 348 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56340 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 17:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 17:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (204.127.200.83) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 17:17:15 -0000 Received: from smailcenter71.comcast.net ([204.127.205.171]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060131163254013002r360e>; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:32:54 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter71.comcast.net; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:32:54 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:32:54 +0000 Message-Id: <013120061632.517.43DF9135000CCF380000020522007636920B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_517_1138725174_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Silm character popularity questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=FAZfVc8Sgn35sEoO4UdFD7ty_MORyszLB6cx-yeJOMTRjSNVfumc X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_517_1138725174_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tehta wrote: > Is it all right if I join in? But of course! Your three years of wisdom beats my one-and-a-half (half of which was extreme lurking). ;) > I have not seen all that much of Alqualonde or the Ice, though. Hardly anything, actually. Any recs? (If there's enough, I sense some Mithril categories in the making...) Really? Back in the day when I used to have time to regularly troll ff.net, I felt like every author who did a lot of work in the Sil had done one of these. I should have also counted the burning at Losgar in there...perhaps the whole experience from Alqualonde to Losgar? My brain is mush at the moment, but if I think of any recs, I'll post them. (Anyone else have any ideas?) > Most popular female character? (Are any female characters popular?) > Probably Galadriel, no? I would have gone with Aredhel. I've seen a lot more Sil stories involving Aredhel, I think, than Galadriel, in terms of a leading role anyway. Actually, I haven't seen much Galadriel at all. (Any recs? ;^D) Nerdanel also remains very popular, in my perception, although that could be because I hang out with a bunch of Feanor fangurls. > Most popular pairings? Slash would obviously be Maedhros/Fingon, het would be... er... Feanor/Nerdanel? I'd agree, but then again, I hang out with Feanor fangurls.... Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_517_1138725174_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Tehta wrote:
> Is it all right if I join in?
 
But of course! Your three years of wisdom beats my one-and-a-half (half of which was extreme lurking). ;)
 
> I have not seen all that much of Alqualonde or the Ice, though. Hardly anything, actually. Any recs? (If there's enough, I sense some Mithril categories in the making...)
 
Really? Back in the day when I used to have time to regularly troll ff.net, I felt like every author who did a lot of work in the Sil had done one of these. I should have also counted the burning at Losgar in there...perhaps the whole experience from Alqualonde to Losgar?
 
My brain is mush at the moment, but if I think of any recs, I'll post them. (Anyone else have any ideas?)
 
> Most popular female character? (Are any female characters popular?)

> Probably Galadriel, no?
 
I would have gone with Aredhel. I've seen a lot more Sil stories involving Aredhel, I think, than Galadriel, in terms of a leading role anyway. Actually, I haven't seen much Galadriel at all. (Any recs? ;^D)
 
Nerdanel also remains very popular, in my perception, although that could be because I hang out with a bunch of Feanor fangurls.
 
> Most popular pairings? Slash would obviously be Maedhros/Fingon, het would be... er... Feanor/Nerdanel?
 
I'd agree, but then again, I hang out with Feanor fangurls....
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_517_1138725174_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 349 Return-Path: X-Sender: elennf569@rogers.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83934 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 17:54:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 17:54:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web88102.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.203) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 17:54:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 67568 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jan 2006 17:54:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20060131175418.67566.qmail@web88102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.30.217.51] by web88102.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:54:18 EST Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:54:18 -0500 (EST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <013120061632.517.43DF9135000CCF380000020522007636920B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-116181482-1138730058=:67028" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: ED LENNOX Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Silm character popularity questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226967330; y=vQQqwqquKrJ6r18WaEu2gODtfQA3Bav01pJ4qunjc0s7cP-LbIJ2DU4_dJ7PIUs X-Yahoo-Profile: tenehil --0-116181482-1138730058=:67028 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, all!. This is a very interesting discussion on the most popular characters in the Silm, especially the female ones. Funnily enough, if I had to answer this question coming straight from reading the book and without reading any fanfic at all, I would have thought that Luthien would have been the favourite. As far as Galadriel goes, think she may be popular to write about, although not necessarily in a good way. I agree with Dawn that Aredhel is likely the most popular female, as there are quite a few fics that link her with either Celegorm or Curufin romantically, or are about her tragic life with E�l. Unfortunately, the most worthy (IMO) female, Idril, does not have that many stories written about her. I've even written about Aredhel myself, and in that story entitled "The Marring of Bliss", I have a chapter (the seventh, I believe) that describes the crossing of the ice. However, this story is not beta'd and if I had to go back and do it again, I would make the description of the journey longer and more detailed. DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: Tehta wrote: > Is it all right if I join in? Jenni/digdigil "And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-116181482-1138730058=:67028 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, all!.
 
This is a very interesting discussion on the most popular characters in the Silm, especially the female ones.  Funnily enough, if I had to answer this question coming straight from reading the book and without reading any fanfic at all, I would have thought that Luthien would have been the favourite.  As far as Galadriel goes, think she may be popular to write about, although not necessarily in a good way.  I agree with Dawn that Aredhel is likely the most popular female, as there are quite a few fics that link her with either Celegorm or Curufin romantically, or are about her tragic life with E�l.  Unfortunately, the most worthy (IMO) female, Idril, does not have that many stories written about her.
 
I've even written about Aredhel myself, and in that story entitled "The Marring of Bliss", I have a chapter (the seventh, I believe) that describes the crossing of the ice.  However, this story is not beta'd and if I had to go back and do it again, I would make the description of the journey longer and more detailed.

DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote:
Tehta wrote:
> Is it all right if I join in?
 
 


Jenni/digdigil

"And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-116181482-1138730058=:67028-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 350 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21499 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 18:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 18:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.97) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 18:01:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 18659 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 18:01:06 -0000 Received: from m1593p012.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([80.121.71.12]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub75.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 31 Jan 2006 18:01:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43DFA5FA.000001.03852@MARINA> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:01:30 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_I2YYQL80000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <20060131175418.67566.qmail@web88102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Silm character popularity questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=wagFkNzAK3BDLw9HcllrE_BaoFwM8nw07A02HMpEp19fnnYnzlYq X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_I2YYQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, I would be very interested in this story about Aredhel! I think Galadri= el got a lot of her popularity through the movies. I would also consider Luthien as the Silmarillion "Superstar" so to say. Would you mind to share your story about Aredhel? Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: ED LENNOX Date: 01/31/06 18:54:39 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Silm character popularity ques= tions =20 Hi, all!. =20 This is a very interesting discussion on the most popular characters in th= e Silm, especially the female ones. Funnily enough, if I had to answer thi= s question coming straight from reading the book and without reading any fa= nfic at all, I would have thought that Luthien would have been the favourit= e. As far as Galadriel goes, think she may be popular to write about, alth= ough not necessarily in a good way. I agree with Dawn that Aredhel is like= ly the most popular female, as there are quite a few fics that link her wit= h either Celegorm or Curufin romantically, or are about her tragic life wit= h E=F6l. Unfortunately, the most worthy (IMO) female, Idril, does not have= that many stories written about her. =20 I've even written about Aredhel myself, and in that story entitled "The Ma= rring of Bliss", I have a chapter (the seventh, I believe) that describes t= he crossing of the ice. However, this story is not beta'd and if I had to = go back and do it again, I would make the description of the journey longer= and more detailed. DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: Tehta wrote: > Is it all right if I join in? =20 =20 Jenni/digdigil "And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and rememb= er who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in p= eace and held redressed, if others will release thee."=20 SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative w= riting program=20 Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and = fantasy=20 YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS=20 Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 --------------Boundary-00=_I2YYQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = <= /TABLE>3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_I2YYQL80000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 351 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladypear@blazemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65024 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 07:26:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 07:26:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.223) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 07:26:39 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n3.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 07:26:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 07:26:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 07:26:10 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 07:26:08 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Vana Tuivana" Subject: Favorite Silm quotes, anyone? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253685802; y=fNNk0_cuHZ4NUuezdLa_ZoiBtkUzZ9PWmcuTFSZSe-Ce8UEJ-vE X-Yahoo-Profile: vanatuivana I let a friend look through my well-worn copy of the Silm today (so well-wo= rn that the cover had to be taped back on... twice... in the past two month= s... sound familiar? :-P), because he had some slight interest in maybe re= ading it at some point. He leafed through a couple of pages and looked up = at me with a funny kind of smirk on his face. "You highlight passages in t= his book?" he asked. "You dork." Well, it's true, I highlight my favorite= sections of the Silm, and in some cases I even memorize them. ("And last = of all the mounting wave, green and cold and plumed with foam, climbing ove= r the land, took to its bosom Tar-Miriel the Queen, fairer than silver or i= vory or pearls..." *shivers*) Which made me rather curious. Does anyone e= lse have quotes from the Silm that they particularly like? Not sections or= events or pages, but the actual words themselves? I'd be really intereste= d in hearing what you all have to say. :-) Vana (P.S. Needless to say, m= y friend will not be borrowing my copy of the Silm anytime soon.) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 352 Return-Path: X-Sender: a_tehta@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72033 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 10:11:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 10:11:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.86) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 10:11:05 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 04:10:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 10:09:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 10:09:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <013120061632.517.43DF9135000CCF380000020522007636920B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "a_tehta" Subject: Re: Silm character popularity questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=172959048; y=PzhNKdZrH0y-oSwSNMSMXxRK8Phguhw4Y6UU_MGxHS_i2g X-Yahoo-Profile: a_tehta --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@c... wrote: = > > I have not seen all that much of Alqualonde or the Ice, though. Hardly = anything, actually. Any recs? (If there's enough, I sense some Mithril cate= gories in the making...) > > Really? Back in the day when I used to have t= ime to regularly troll ff.net, I felt like every author who did a lot of wo= rk in the Sil had done one of these. I should have also counted the burning= at Losgar in there...perhaps the whole experience from Alqualonde to Losga= r? It may be a newer development, then. The authors I used to fangirl as a= lurker--Finch, Ithilwen, Claudio, Nol--don't seem to have done much with a= ll that. The only Alqualonde story I remember is a Maglor one where he was = really aware of the beauty of the tragedy; I think it's by Joan Milligan. A= nd the only Helcaraxe stories I remember are either atmospheric drabbles or= (pre)slash--you know, Fingon angsting about Maedhros. I have actually loo= ked for Ice stories, too, since I have a draft of a one and after I wrote i= t I wanted to see how other people had handled the logistics. > > Most po= pular female character? (Are any female characters popular?) > > > Probabl= y Galadriel, no? > > I would have gone with Aredhel. I've seen a lot more = Sil stories involving Aredhel, I think, than Galadriel, in terms of a leadi= ng role anyway. Actually, I haven't seen much Galadriel at all. (Any recs? = ;) Oh yes. Marnie aka Galadhir is a great writer who focuses mostly on Cel= eborn, so there's lots of Galadriel. But you may be right about Aredhel. = > Nerdanel also remains very popular, in my perception, although that coul= d be because I hang out with a bunch of Feanor fangurls. I think she's pop= ular even with people who think Feanor was a bit of a prat. T From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 353 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27891 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 14:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 14:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 14:41:17 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CF2F748072 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:40:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:44:18 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <422901768.20060201154418@tlen.pl> To: a_tehta In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: Silm character popularity questions - some recs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=b42qepg9xIK9sN7jMk3XdgNAKdVyfUOv9u41iyIWaUXikcOFRrA X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Hi all! No recs? So a few from me, though these stories are old, so all of you may know them already. T> I have not seen all that much of Alqualonde or the Ice, though. Hardly anything, actually. Any T> recs? Hmmm, I don't think you wouldn't know them - the only I've red so far and remember 'Across the ice' Deborah Jugde http://www.fanfiction.net/s/777577/1/ and 'The ice' by Itarille http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1790857/1/ Plus the story about Anair� and Fingolfin which you already know, but maybe others do not - 'Separation' by Finch http://www.fanfiction.net/s/722002/1/ - almost on the ice. I still think of Anair�'s choice. Dawn> I would have gone with Aredhel. I've seen a lot more Sil stories involving Aredhel, I think, Dawn> than Galadriel, in terms of a leading role anyway. Actually, I haven't seen much Galadriel at Dawn> all. (Any recs? ;^D) This Galadriel is a must. (Galadriel? This F�anor is a must! :D ). ... What was I talking about? Oh yes, Galadriel - 'A single strand' by Maura Mellon http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1274479/1/ Can't think of any other, but you'll find Galadriel in the Deborah's fic mentioned above. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 354 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36769 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 14:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 14:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc14.comcast.net) (204.127.200.84) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 14:46:52 -0000 Received: from smailcenter46.comcast.net ([204.127.205.146]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2006020114463601400a3oc8e>; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:46:36 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter46.comcast.net; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 14:46:35 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 14:46:35 +0000 Message-Id: <020120061446.26439.43E0C9CA00070A230000674722007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26439_1138805195_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: February Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=ExasMoBKneiTHCW2OP6e_UrOhw-jwwzmr6iCTc72j6yXZfZk7nXp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26439_1138805195_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, everyone! The group newsletter for February is posted in our LiveJournal community here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/39213.html This month, we have three new challenges, including the first Quote of the Month challenge. (Vana had asked in an earlier post for people's favorite quotes; I'm also open to suggestions for quotes for future challenges as well!) Just a reminder, as I have been asked this a lot in the past month, that *all* Silmarillion-based writing is welcome in our community. You do not need to have permission to post, and postings do not have to be challenge responses. If you need help with posting, contact me at DawnFelagund@comcast.net. Best regards to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26439_1138805195_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Greetings, everyone!
The group newsletter for February is posted in our LiveJournal community here:
 
 
This month, we have three new challenges, including the first Quote of the Month challenge. (Vana had asked in an earlier post for people's favorite quotes; I'm also open to suggestions for quotes for future challenges as well!)
 
Just a reminder, as I have been asked this a lot in the past month, that *all* Silmarillion-based writing is welcome in our community. You do not need to have permission to post, and postings do not have to be challenge responses. If you need help with posting, contact me at DawnFelagund@comcast.net.
 
Best regards to all,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26439_1138805195_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 355 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66849 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 14:48:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 14:48:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.93) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 14:48:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 24617 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 14:46:31 -0000 Received: from m129p024.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.184.24]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub77.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Feb 2006 14:46:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43E0C9E1.00000B.03856@MARINA> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:46:57 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_9QJ0CJD0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Favorite Silm quotes, anyone? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=act6ebHOwDym5Oam9-8fEG7p7PfhtOMRfDN8BPlvKigIDZbs6rbe X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_9QJ0CJD0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Vana, I have two Silmarillion versions meanwhile: the work version and the "Do n= ot dare to touch it or you are dead". Latter one has a custom made leather = cover.... I too do highlight certain passages to memorize them easier too. I have us= ed in my FF several quotes especially out of speeches (Aredhel: This is my = son Maeglin! Feanor: I do not say aye nor nay...) My favorite passage tha= t I used in characterizing Maeglin is one quote that I cut a litte. It is o= ut of that troubles Maeglin made because or Hurin's and Turgon's friendshi= p after the Nirnaeth: "But Maeglin....did not grieve at all.....for he felt= no love. ..for any of the kindred of men..." I used this quote in several stories under several meanings by now. Marina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Vana Tuivana Date: 02/01/06 08:26:50 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Favorite Silm quotes, anyone? =20 I let a friend look through my well-worn copy of the Silm today (so well-worn that the cover had to be taped back on... twice... in the past two months... sound familiar? :-P), because he had some slight interest in maybe reading it at some point. He leafed through a couple of pages and looked up at me with a funny kind of smirk on his face. "You highlight passages in this book?" he asked. "You dork." =20 Well, it's true, I highlight my favorite sections of the Silm, and in some cases I even memorize them. ("And last of all the mounting wave, green and cold and plumed with foam, climbing over the land, took to its bosom Tar-Miriel the Queen, fairer than silver or ivory or pearls..." *shivers*) =20 Which made me rather curious. Does anyone else have quotes from the Silm that they particularly like? Not sections or events or pages, but the actual words themselves? =20 I'd be really interested in hearing what you all have to say. =20 :-) Vana =20 (P.S. Needless to say, my friend will not be borrowing my copy of the Silm anytime soon.) =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_9QJ0CJD0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Oh, I would be very interested in this story about Aredhel! I think= Galadriel got a lot of her popularity through the movies.
=
I would also consider Luthien as the Silmarillion "Superstar"= so to say.
 
Would you mind to share your story= about Aredhel?
Marina 
 
-------Original Message-------
&nbs= p;
From: ED LENNOX<= /DIV>
Date: 01/31/06= 18:54:39
DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote:
Tehta wrote:
> Is it all right if I join in?
 
 


Jenni/digdigil

"= And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember= who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in pea= ce and held redressed, if others will release thee."
 
Hi Vana,
 
I have two Silmarillion versi= ons meanwhile: the work version and the "Do not dare to touch it or yo= u are dead". Latter one has a custom made leather cover....
&nbs= p;
I too do highlight certain passages to memorize them eas= ier too. I have used in my FF several quotes especially out of sp= eeches (Aredhel: This is my son Maeglin!   Feanor: I do not say&n= bsp;aye nor nay...) My favorite passage that I used in characterizing Maegl= in is one quote that I cut a litte. It is out of that troubl= es Maeglin made because or Hurin's and Turgon's  friendship after= the Nirnaeth: "But Maeglin....did not grieve at all.....for he = felt no love....for any of the kindred of men..."
&= nbsp;
I used this quote in several stories under several meaning= s by now.
 
Marina
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 02/01/06 08:26:50
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Favorite Sil= m quotes, anyone?
 
I let a friend look th= rough my well-worn copy of the Silm today (so
well-worn that the= cover had to be taped back on... twice... in the
past two month= s... sound familiar?  :-P), because he had some slight
interest in maybe reading it at some point.  He leafed through a=
couple of pages and looked up at me with a funny kind of smirk = on his
face.  "You highlight passages in this book?" h= e asked.  "You dork."
 
Well, it's tru= e, I highlight my favorite sections of the Silm, and in
some cas= es I even memorize them.  ("And last of all the mounting wave,
green and cold and plumed with foam, climbing over the land, took = to
its bosom Tar-Miriel the Queen, fairer than silver or ivory o= r
pearls..." *shivers*)
 
Which made = me rather curious.  Does anyone else have quotes from the
<= DIV>Silm that they particularly like?  Not sections or events or = pages,
but the actual words themselves?
 
=
I'd be really interested in hearing what you all have to say.
 
:-) Vana
 
(P.S.  = ;Needless to say, my friend will not be borrowing my copy of the
Silm anytime soon.)
 
 
 <= /DIV>
 
 
 
 &nbs= p;
=
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_9QJ0CJD0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 356 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28512 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 14:48:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 14:48:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.94) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 14:48:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 24047 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 14:47:20 -0000 Received: from m129p024.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.184.24]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub76.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Feb 2006 14:47:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43E0CA12.00000D.03856@MARINA> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:47:46 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_MRJ024L0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <422901768.20060201154418@tlen.pl> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Silm character popularity questions - some recs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=P-XOT-lUFs_vyxm6mCoKprnSNfvOHFIHeQ71NDiagH9lBd8lhW9z X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_MRJ024L0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I do have written recently about this event, but it is not published yet, t= hough if you desire to read it, I will send it privately to you... Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Sirielle Date: 02/01/06 15:41:23 To: a_tehta Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Silm character popularity question= s - some recs =20 Hi all! =20 No recs? So a few from me, though these stories are old, so all of you may= know them already. =20 T> I have not seen all that much of Alqualonde or the Ice, though. Hard= ly anything, actually. Any T> recs? =20 Hmmm, I don't think you wouldn't know them - the only I've red so far and= remember 'Across the ice' Deborah Jugde http://www.fanfiction.net/s/777577/1/ and 'The= ice' by Itarille http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1790857/1/ --------------Boundary-00=_MRJ024L0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I do have written recently about this event, but it is not publishe= d yet, though if you desire to read it, I will send it privately to yo= u...
Marina 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From= : Sirielle
Date: 02/01/06 15:41:23
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGu= ild] Re: Silm character popularity questions - some recs
&= nbsp;
Hi all!
 
No recs? So a few fro= m me, though these stories are old, so all of you may know them already.
 
T>  I  have  no= t seen all that much of Alqualonde or the Ice, though. Hardly anything, act= ually. Any
T>  recs?
 
H= mmm,  I don't think you wouldn't know them - the only I've red so= far and remember 'Across the ice'
Deborah   &nbs= p; Jugde     http://www.fanfiction.net/s/777577/1/    an= d    'The    ice'   =  by    Itarille
<= TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100%">
3D"Add= --------------Boundary-00=_MRJ024L0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 357 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33754 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 14:50:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 14:50:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.69) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 14:50:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 7237 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 14:49:25 -0000 Received: from m129p024.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.184.24]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub72.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Feb 2006 14:49:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43E0CA8E.000013.03856@MARINA> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:49:50 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_2VJ08WA1VA4000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <020120061446.26439.43E0C9CA00070A230000674722007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] February Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=rbQyIo5gNIVWLH2GKnGPPcecVkdbvH0Ko-euB5j6akYVn1MkxKnW X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_2VJ08WA1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dawn, does a smutty story count for the quote challenge? Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 02/01/06 15:47:01 To: SWG Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] February Newsletter =20 Greetings, everyone! The group newsletter for February is posted in our LiveJournal community h= ere: =20 http:// --------------Boundary-00=_2VJ08WA1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Dawn,
does a smutty story count for the quote chall= enge?
Marina 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
<= DIV id=3Dreceivestrings>
Date:= 02/01/06 15:47:01
To:= SWG
Subject: [Si= lmarillionWritersGuild] February Newsletter
 
<= DIV>Greetings, everyone!
The group newsletter for February is po= sted in our LiveJournal community here:
 
=
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_2VJ08WA1VA4000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 358 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29656 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 15:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 15:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc14.comcast.net) (63.240.77.84) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 15:17:16 -0000 Received: from smailcenter74.comcast.net ([204.127.205.174]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2006020115154601400a8aq9e>; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:15:46 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter74.comcast.net; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:15:45 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:15:45 +0000 Message-Id: <020120061515.19376.43E0D0A1000C77B800004BB022070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19376_1138806945_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] February Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=st6VitP2itPImkqw6L-41MYs3udTbXXnslVt2A0eiB572WNYtLOI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19376_1138806945_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Marina wrote: > does a smutty story count for the quote challenge? Absolutely! Especially this month, since the other two challenges this month center on love and romance. ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19376_1138806945_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Marina wrote:
> does a smutty story count for the quote challenge?
 
Absolutely! Especially this month, since the other two challenges this month center on love and romance. ;)
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19376_1138806945_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 359 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46885 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 16:51:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 16:51:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 16:51:34 -0000 Received: from smailcenter46.comcast.net ([204.127.205.146]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006020115451101200eollne>; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:45:11 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter46.comcast.net; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:45:08 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:45:08 +0000 Message-Id: <020120061545.13901.43E0D783000E4F910000364D22007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13901_1138808708_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Favorite Silm quotes, anyone? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=xKNyikhI5e0rktG7b1mU9Kmrd8tbh8RekknTC5Huysc43VK8h4iY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13901_1138808708_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Vana wrote: > Does anyone else have quotes from the Silm that they particularly like? I also underline and make notes in my battered paperback Sil, although mostly passages that I want to remember for the purpose of defending the points I make in my writing. (I am totally un-canatic, and so when one of my notions actually *is* based off of the canon, then I make sure that I can find the reference if challenged!) I own three copies of the Sil: my paperback, scribbled-in copy; an old hardback the my husband got from a book club; and the version illustrated by Ted Nasmith, given to me by a friend. People are welcome to borrow the latter two, but the first I guard as jealously as Feanor guarded the Silmarils. ;) Most of my favorite quotes, I find, come from dialogue. For some reason, I find myself really liking the scene between Feanor and Fingolfin when Feanor threatens Fingolfin: "See, half-brother! This is sharper than thy tongue." Why do I like that? I have no idea. Perhaps because it's an easy quote to act out with my husband while playing around with medieval weaponry. And more Feanor, from "Of the Flight of the Noldor": "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest. It may be that I can unlock my jewels, but never again shall I make their like; and if I must break them, I shall break my heart, and I shall be slain; first of all the Eldar in Aman." I think I've always liked this one because I empathize with it, as a creator of both visual artwork and stories, and the fear of losing something into which I have poured my heart. After completing painting projects for miniature painting competitions, I used to have nightmares of varnishing my finished work and having it all melt away. The same fear makes me obsessive about backing up files with stories on them. More Feanor: "But if any will come with me, I say to them: Is sorrow foreboded to you? But in Aman we have seen it. In Aman we have come through bliss to woe. The other now we will try: through sorrow to find joy; or freedom, at the least." ("Of the Flight of the Noldor") My favorite description is of Alqualonde, from "Of Eldamar": "Many jewels the Noldor gave them, opals and diamonds and pale crystals, which they strewed upon the shores and scattered in the pools; marvelous were the beaches of Elende in those days. And many pearls they won for themselves from the sea, and their halls were of pearl, and of pearl were the mansions of Olwe at Alqualonde, the Haven of Swans, lit with many lamps." It's just the idea of the lamplight on all the pearls and gemstones.... *shivers delightedly* But my all-time favorite quote, so favorite that my husband and best friend have been known to also recite it at whim: "Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!" I have a weakness for interesting insults, and "jail-crow of Mandos" certainly tops the list. Plus, I imagine in the background, Maedhros, Maglor, and Finwe listening at the door. Feanor: Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos! Maedhros: Oooohhhh.... Maglor: Face! Finwe: (*facepalm*) Oh, $*#+.... As I have exceeded my allotted rambling today.... Dawn Felagund the Loquacious -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13901_1138808708_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Vana wrote:
> Does anyone else have quotes from the Silm that they particularly like?
 
I also underline and make notes in my battered paperback Sil, although mostly passages that I want to remember for the purpose of defending the points I make in my writing. (I am totally un-canatic, and so when one of my notions actually *is* based off of the canon, then I make sure that I can find the reference if challenged!) I own three copies of the Sil: my paperback, scribbled-in copy; an old hardback the my husband got from a book club; and the version illustrated by Ted Nasmith, given to me by a friend. People are welcome to borrow the latter two, but the first I guard as jealously as Feanor guarded the Silmarils. ;)
 
Most of my favorite quotes, I find, come from dialogue. For some reason, I find myself really liking the scene between Feanor and Fingolfin when Feanor threatens Fingolfin: "See, half-brother! This is sharper than thy tongue." Why do I like that? I have no idea. Perhaps because it's an easy quote to act out with my husband while playing around with medieval weaponry.
 
And more Feanor, from "Of the Flight of the Noldor": "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest. It may be that I can unlock my jewels, but never again shall I make their like; and if I must break them, I shall break my heart, and I shall be slain; first of all the Eldar in Aman." I think I've always liked this one because I empathize with it, as a creator of both visual artwork and stories, and the fear of losing something into which I have poured my heart. After completing painting projects for miniature painting competitions, I used to have nightmares of varnishing my finished work and having it all melt away. The same fear makes me obsessive about backing up files with stories on them.
 
More Feanor: "But if any will come with me, I say to them: Is sorrow foreboded to you? But in Aman we have seen it. In Aman we have come through bliss to woe. The other now we will try: through sorrow to find joy; or freedom, at the least." ("Of the Flight of the Noldor")
 
My favorite description is of Alqualonde, from "Of Eldamar": "Many jewels the Noldor gave them, opals and diamonds and pale crystals, which they strewed upon the shores and scattered in the pools; marvelous were the beaches of Elende in those days. And many pearls they won for themselves from the sea, and their halls were of pearl, and of pearl were the mansions of Olwe at Alqualonde, the Haven of Swans, lit with many lamps." It's just the idea of the lamplight on all the pearls and gemstones.... *shivers delightedly*
 
But my all-time favorite quote, so favorite that my husband and best friend have been known to also recite it at whim: "Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!" I have a weakness for interesting insults, and "jail-crow of Mandos" certainly tops the list.
 
Plus, I imagine in the background, Maedhros, Maglor, and Finwe listening at the door.
 
Feanor: Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!
Maedhros: Oooohhhh....
Maglor: Face!
Finwe: (*facepalm*) Oh, $*#+....
 
As I have exceeded my allotted rambling today....
Dawn Felagund the Loquacious
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13901_1138808708_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 360 Return-Path: X-Sender: elennf569@rogers.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3150 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 18:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 18:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web88112.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.233) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 18:07:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 47336 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2006 18:06:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20060201180646.47334.qmail@web88112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.30.217.51] by web88112.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:06:46 EST Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:06:46 -0500 (EST) To: Silmarillion Writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1396537494-1138817206=:46994" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: ED LENNOX Subject: Favourite Quotes From The Silmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226967330; y=1cs-462khPpBeIA7vkO2AGYB5d8_wBzy68gc1S9dqUTvm1qLERjYr62t_se4Buw X-Yahoo-Profile: tenehil --0-1396537494-1138817206=:46994 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In answer to Vana's question about peoples' favourite quotes from the Silm, here are some of mine: SOME OF MY FAVOURITE QUOTES FROM THE SILMARILLION P. 29: �For Elves and Men are the Children of Il�vatar --- and if ever in their dealings with Elves and Men the Ainur (Valar) have endeavoured to force them when they would not be guided, seldom has this turned to good, howsoever good the intent�. P. 66: �---for West of the Pelori was an empty land in twilight, and eastward the mountains looked out, save for forgotten Avathar, only upon the dim waters of the pathless sea�. P. 74: �But from Valmar no message came, and Manw� was silent. He would not yet either forbid or hinder F�anor�s purpose ---. Now they watched and waited, for they did not yet believe that F�anor could hold the host of the Noldor to his will�. P. 217: �Evil have been all thy ways, son of H�rin. Thankless fosterling, outlaw, slayer of thy friend, thief of love, usurper of Nargothrond, captain foolhardy, and deserter of thy kin�. P. 215: �Then Gwindor said to T�rin: �---And though I love thee, son of H�rin, yet I rue the day that I took thee from the Orcs. ---Now if you love me, leave me!� P. 217: Re: F�anor: �It is said that he also took this name as his chosen name, in honour of his mother, whom he never saw�. P. 207: Re: The love between Beleg & T�rin: �Thus Beleg returned once more to T�rin, and their meeting was glad; ---but still T�rin would not return to Doriath; and Beleg yielding to his love against his wisdom remained with him�. P. 209: �But Beleg would not abandon T�rin---� P. 210: �Thus ended Beleg Strongbow, ---at the hand of him whom he most loved; and that grief was graven on the face of T�rin and never faded�. P. 166: �For the Silmarils are cursed with an oath of hatred, and he that even names them in desire moves a great power from slumber;---� P. 222: HoME, Vol. 10: �For there was, for all the f�ar of the Dead, a time of Waiting, in which, howsoever they had died, they were connected, instructed, strengthened or comforted, according to their needs or deserts. If they would consent to this. But the f�a in its nakedness is obdurate, and remains long in the bondage of its memory and old purposes (especially if those were evil.)� P. 260: �And Maedhros answered: �But how shall our voices reach to Il�vatar beyond the Circles of the World? And by Il�vatar we swore in our madness, and called the Everlasting Doom upon us, if we kept not our word. Who shall release us?� �Yet Maglor still held back, saying: �If Manw� and Varda themselves deny the fulfillment of an oath, to which we named them in witness, is it not made void?� �If none can release us�, said Maglor, �then indeed the Everlasting Darkness shall be our lot, whether we keep our oath or break it; but less evil shall we do in the breaking�. Jenni/digdigil "And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-1396537494-1138817206=:46994 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In answer to Vana's question about peoples' favourite quotes from the Silm, here are some of mine:
 
SOME OF MY FAVOURITE QUOTES FROM THE SILMARILLION
 
 
P. 29:               �For Elves and Men are the Children of Il�vatar --- and if ever in their dealings with Elves and Men the Ainur (Valar) have endeavoured to force them when they would not be guided, seldom has this turned to good, howsoever good the intent�.
 
P. 66:               �---for West of the Pelori was an empty land in twilight, and eastward the mountains looked out, save for forgotten Avathar, only upon the dim waters of the pathless sea�.
 
P. 74:               �But from Valmar no message came, and Manw� was silent.  He would not yet either forbid or hinder F�anor�s purpose ---.  Now they watched and waited, for they did not yet believe that F�anor could hold the host of the Noldor to his will�.
 
P. 217:             �Evil have been all thy ways, son of H�rin.  Thankless fosterling, outlaw, slayer of thy friend, thief of love, usurper of Nargothrond, captain foolhardy, and deserter of thy kin�.
 
P. 215:             �Then Gwindor said to T�rin:  �---And though I love thee, son of H�rin, yet I rue the day that I took thee from the Orcs. ---Now if you love me, leave me!�
 
P. 217:             Re: F�anor:  �It is said that he also took this name as his chosen name, in honour of his mother, whom he never saw�.
 
P. 207:             Re:  The love between Beleg & T�rin:  �Thus Beleg returned once more to T�rin, and their meeting was glad; ---but still T�rin would not return to Doriath; and Beleg yielding to his love against his wisdom remained with him�.
 
P. 209:             �But Beleg would not abandon T�rin---�
 
P. 210:             �Thus ended Beleg Strongbow, ---at the hand of him whom he most loved; and that grief was graven on the face of T�rin and never faded�.
 
 
 
P. 166:             �For the Silmarils are cursed with an oath of hatred, and he that even names them in desire moves a great power from slumber;---�
 
P. 222:  HoME, Vol. 10:          �For there was, for all the f�ar of the Dead, a time of Waiting, in which, howsoever they had died, they were connected, instructed, strengthened or comforted, according to their needs or deserts.  If they would consent to this.  But the f�a in its nakedness is obdurate, and remains long in the bondage of its memory and old purposes (especially if those were evil.)�
 
P. 260:             �And Maedhros answered:  �But how shall our voices reach to Il�vatar beyond the Circles of the World?  And by Il�vatar we swore in our madness, and called the Everlasting Doom upon us, if we kept not our word.  Who shall release us?�
 
�Yet Maglor still held back, saying:  �If Manw� and Varda themselves deny the fulfillment of an oath, to which we named them in witness, is it not made void?�
 
�If none can release us�, said Maglor, �then indeed the Everlasting Darkness shall be our lot, whether we keep our oath or break it; but less evil shall we do in the breaking�.


Jenni/digdigil

"And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-1396537494-1138817206=:46994-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 361 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17092 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 19:06:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 19:06:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.93) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 19:06:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 23460 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 19:04:08 -0000 Received: from m150p011.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.186.171]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub74.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Feb 2006 19:04:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43E10640.000001.03128@MARINA> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 20:04:32 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_KNV0QL80000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <020120061545.13901.43E0D783000E4F910000364D22007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Favorite Silm quotes, anyone? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=otoo2d125fgjX2jZ4I-bQjizZe_crI6AfEeqydriziNkDfzdWLoZ X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_KNV0QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dawn! I love the last phrases! The family dialog! Wonderful!!! The other quotes I know very well, for I admire this elven f= amily. Great choice! MArina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 02/01/06 17:51:47 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Favorite Silm quotes, anyone? =20 Feanor: Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos! Maedhros: Oooohhhh.... Maglor: Face! Finwe: (*facepalm*) Oh, $*#+.... =20 As I have exceeded my allotted rambling today.... Dawn Felagund the Loquacious =20 -- ~oOo~=20 Dawn Felagund=20 Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund=20 Are you a relentless First-Ager?=20 Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.=20 ~oOo~ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS=20 Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 --------------Boundary-00=_KNV0QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Dawn!
I love the last phrases! The family dialog!
=
 
 
 Wonderful!!! The other = quotes I know very well, for I admire this elven family. Great choice!
MArina
 
-= ------Original Message-------
 
<= DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Date: 02/01/06 17:51:= 47
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Favorite Silm quotes, anyo= ne?
 
 
Feanor: = Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!
Maedhros: Oooohhhh....
Maglor: Face!
Finwe: (*facepalm*) Oh, $*#+....
 
As I have exce= eded my allotted rambling today....
Dawn Felagund the Loquacious
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stor= ies or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dda= wn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silm= arillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ds= ilwritersguild.
~oOo~
 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_KNV0QL80000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 362 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17800 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 19:09:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 19:09:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.90) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 19:09:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 19509 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 19:08:43 -0000 Received: from m150p011.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.186.171]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub78.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Feb 2006 19:08:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43E10754.00000B.03128@MARINA> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 20:09:08 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_8VV0CJD0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <020120061515.19376.43E0D0A1000C77B800004BB022070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] February Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=MhOk-UCROt__CYHbhyL-0CLPgynQEfN_cZQNPdc34LuAIJ5Yo2G9 X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_8VV0CJD0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, so I will go over to the journal thingy (hope I will figure it out and = post that naughty thing of mine...with the quote in it!. Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 02/01/06 16:17:34 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] February Newsletter =20 Marina wrote: > does a smutty story count for the quote challenge? =20 Absolutely! Especially this month, since the other two challenges this mon= th center on love and romance. ;) Dawn =20 -- ~oOo~=20 Dawn Felagund=20 Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund=20 Are you a relentless First-Ager?=20 Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.=20 ~oOo~ SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative w= riting program=20 Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and = fantasy=20 YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS=20 Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 --------------Boundary-00=_8VV0CJD0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Ok, so I will go over to the journal thingy (hope I will figure it out a= nd post that naughty thing of mine...with the quote in it!.
Mari= na 
 
------= -Original Message-------
 
Date: 02/01/06 16:17:34
Subj= ect: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] February Newsletter
=
 
Marina wrote:
> does a smutty story c= ount for the quote challenge?
 
Absolu= tely! Especially this month, since the other two challenges this month cent= er on love and romance. ;)
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my sto= ries or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dd= awn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Sil= marillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3D= silwritersguild.
~oOo~
 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_8VV0CJD0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 363 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32605 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 19:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 19:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.200.81) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 19:11:53 -0000 Received: from smailcenter46.comcast.net ([204.127.205.146]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060201191047011003an2pe>; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:10:47 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter46.comcast.net; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 19:10:45 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 19:10:45 +0000 Message-Id: <020120061910.16473.43E107B500083D930000405922007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16473_1138821045_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Favourite Quotes From The Silmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=_q9j9Ikgx0v6HdX-s6cQrXR-p0zi1u32-EC7siO2qyFgSbdqtAbT X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16473_1138821045_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jenni (Digdigil) wrote: > �If none can release us�, said Maglor, �then indeed the Everlasting Darkness shall be our lot, whether we keep our oath or break it; but less evil shall we do in the breaking�. Oh, Jenni, I'm glad you named that one! I'd forgotten it...that line makes me shiver. So sad and hopeless.... *sobs* On my way out to lunch, I was thinking of my *least* favorite line: "And being in anguish and despair he cast himself into a gaping chasm filled with fire, and so ended...." ("Of the Voyage of Earendil") "And so ended"?? It seems so anticlimactic, given the struggle and turmoil that has been Maedhros' life, given the first part of the line, even, with all its fire and gaping chasms and volcanic drama.... I lack the audaciousness to claim to be able to say it better. Suffice to say that this is not my favorite line. ;) Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16473_1138821045_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Jenni (Digdigil) wrote:
> �If none can release us�, said Maglor, �then indeed the Everlasting Darkness shall be our lot, whether we keep our oath or break it; but less evil shall we do in the breaking�.
 
Oh, Jenni, I'm glad you named that one! I'd forgotten it...that line makes me shiver. So sad and hopeless.... *sobs*
 
On my way out to lunch, I was thinking of my *least* favorite line: "And being in anguish and despair he cast himself into a gaping chasm filled with fire, and so ended...."  ("Of the Voyage of Earendil")
 
"And so ended"?? It seems so anticlimactic, given the struggle and turmoil that has been Maedhros' life, given the first part of the line, even, with all its fire and gaping chasms and volcanic drama....
 
I lack the audaciousness to claim to be able to say it better. Suffice to say that this is not my favorite line. ;)
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16473_1138821045_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 364 Return-Path: X-Sender: Juno@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50437 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 20:13:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 20:13:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 20:13:26 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 20:12:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 20:12:50 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 20:12:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Exercise #14 is posted at the writers' workshop "There and Back Again" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=199036170; y=1KjIsksxu-dPKz2sYmyDQs35yt5rSF5UyWe8LGRd_eBINvQWbQ X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic Hi all, exercise #14 is posted at the writers' workshop "There and Back Ag= ain". After the exertions of exercise #13 it's time to have fun. Therefore= exercise #14 is another genre exercise. Write whatever you feel like: a d= rabble, a short story, a poem, a novella or a novel. Write a self-insertio= n. Details about this exercise can be found here: http://community.livejou= rnal.com/there_n_back/66007.html Have fun! Yours JunoMagic and Aranel Too= k *** "There and Back Again (and how to get there in the first place)" -= a writers' workshop for Tolkien fan fiction in LJ style: http://www.livejo= urnal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dthere_n_back From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 365 Return-Path: X-Sender: alina_moi2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59190 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 21:21:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 21:21:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 21:21:01 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 21:18:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 21:18:05 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 21:18:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Alina" Subject: Re: Favorite Silm quotes, anyone? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235462409; y=zHcrrNtfq8mxUpwMf1FNyJhx11nPl7gQ3XYV2jrwPAuA4l1rRXoe3A X-Yahoo-Profile: alina_moi2004 Unfortunately, I do not have a published version of the Silm, but a printe= d one... and I might have to print it again because I've made all sorts of= highlights and scribbled notes on the pages! Here are some of my favorite= quotes (the ones I know by heart, anyway!) "'My half-brother would be be= fore me with my father, in this as in all other matters.' Then turning upo= n Fingolfin he drew his sword, crying:'get thee gone, and take thy due pla= ce!' Fingolfin bowed before Finwe, and without word or glance to Feanor h= e went from the chamber. But Feanor followed him, and at the door of the k= ing's house he stayed him; and the point of his bright sword he set agains= t Fingolfin's breast 'See, half-brother!' he said. 'This is sharper than t= hy tongue. Try but once more to usurp my place and the love of my father, = and maybe it will rid the Noldor of one who seeks to be the master of thra= lls.'" (Chapter 7: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor) "Then F= ingolfin said: 'I will release my brother.' But Feanor spoke no word in an= swer, standing silent before the Valar. Then he turned and left the counci= l, and departed from Valmar." (Chapter 7: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest = of the Noldor) "and Feanor looked upon Melkor with eyes that burned throug= h his fair semblance and pierced the cloaks of his mind, perceiving there = his fierce lust for the Silmarils. Then hate overcame Feanor's fear, and = he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying: 'Get thee gone from my gate= , thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the fac= e of the mightiest of all the dwellers in Ea." (Chapter 7: Of the Silmaril= s and the Unrest of the Noldor) " For Fingolfin held forth his hand, sayi= ng: 'As I promised, I do now. I release thee, and remember no grievance.' = Then Feanor took his hand in silence; but Fingolfin said: 'Half- brother= in blood, full brother in heart will I be. Thou shalt lead and I will fol= low. May no new grief divide us.' 'I hear thee,' said Feanor. 'So be it.'= But they did not know the meaning that their words would bear. " (Chapter= 8: Of the Darkening of Valinor)*favorite quote by far!* " But Feanor s= poke then, and cried bitterly: 'For the less even as for the greater there= is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his h= eart shall rest. It may be that I can unlock my jewels, but never again sh= all I make their like; and if I must break them, I shall break my heart, a= nd I shall be slain; first of all the Eldar in Aman.' 'Not the first,' sa= id Mandos, but they did not understand his word;" (Chapter 8: Of the Darke= ning of Valinor)*sniffs* " 'Fair shall the end be,' he cried, though long = and hard shall be the road! Say farewell to bondage! But say farewell also= to ease! Say farewell to the weak! Say farewell to your treasures! More s= till shall we make. Journey light: but bring with you your swords! For we = will go further than Orome, endure longer than Tulkas: we will never turn = back from pursuit. After Morgoth to the ends of the Earth! War shall he h= ave and hatred undying. But when we have conquered and have regained the S= ilmarils, then we and we alone shall be lords of the unsullied Light, and = masters of the bliss and beauty of Arda. No other race shall oust us!'" (C= hapter 8: Of the Darkening of Valinor) There are still things that Feanor = has said and I've not managed to memorize yet. o_O ! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 366 Return-Path: X-Sender: a_tehta@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21204 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 21:25:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 21:25:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 21:25:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 21:23:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 21:23:30 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 21:23:29 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <422901768.20060201154418@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "a_tehta" Subject: Re: Silm character popularity questions - some recs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=172959048; y=5P6mJPx89NSB-xMMWeoHE_AQWy3GB81LtI2f7fgQw_ppNA X-Yahoo-Profile: a_tehta --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Hi all! > > No recs? So a few from me, though these stories are o= ld, so all of you may know them already. > > T> I have not seen all tha= t much of Alqualonde or the Ice, though. Hardly anything, actually. Any > T= > recs? > > Hmmm, I don't think you wouldn't know them - the only I've r= ed so far and remember 'Across the ice' > Deborah Jugde http://www.= fanfiction.net/s/777577/1/ and 'The ice' by Itarille > http:= //www.fanfiction.net/s/1790857/1/ Yes, those are two of the stories I mean= t--Maedhros preslash and a drabble series. I certainly do know them: in fac= t I betad the second one. Heh. But they're both great stories, and worth r= eading. T From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 367 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladypear@blazemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32069 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 21:29:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 21:29:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 21:29:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 21:25:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2006 21:25:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 21:25:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <020120061910.16473.43E107B500083D930000405922007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Vana Tuivana" Subject: Re: Favourite Quotes From The Silmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253685802; y=x55ynnGosmueXL2N8tGE3sEPGrRi0UM8nXLYmM62vKphvDP0RHM X-Yahoo-Profile: vanatuivana --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > On my way out to lunch, I was thinking of my *least* favorite line: "And= being in anguish and despair he cast himself into a gaping chasm filled wi= th fire, and so ended...." ("Of the Voyage of Earendil") > > "And so ende= d"?? It seems so anticlimactic, given the struggle and turmoil that has bee= n Maedhros' life, given the first part of the line, even, with all its fire= and gaping chasms and volcanic drama.... > If the sentence ended there, I= think I might agree with you, but I prefer to look at the sentence as a wh= ole: "And being in anguish and despair he cast himself into a gaping chasm= filled with fire, and so ended; and the Silmaril that he bore was taken in= to the bosom of the Earth." I actually really like this line, because it i= llustrates the indomitable power of the Silmaril -- it has literally overwh= elmed Maedhros as a person; he has become merely an extension of the "angui= sh and despair" that the hunt for the Silmarils and to fulfil the Oath has = brought about. In this sense, then, once he has the Silmaril he becomes on= e with it -- his life and death no longer matter, which is why he dies in t= hree words and the fate of the Silmaril is given more importance. I think = that Tolkien is really making a strong point by ending the sentence with th= e fate of the Silmaril, rather than (what would be to the readers more impo= rtant) the death of Maedhros. Since the Feanorians swore the oath "that no= ne shall break, and none should take", they have basically bound themselves= to the fate of the Silmarils, and set the jewels as more important than th= eir own lives. And this sentence definitely illustrates that idea, by shun= ting Maedhros' death to the middle in favor of the Silmarils. As for his d= eath being anticlimactic -- I have to disagree there, too. Maedhros was de= ad from the moment he laid hands on the Silmaril. By fulfilling (well, not= really, but let's go with it) the Oath, he has laid to rest his purpose in= life, and really, there's nothing left for him to live for. He's a dead m= an walking in the last half-page of his life, and I find it fitting that hi= s death scene, after all that, is understated. Just my take on it, of cour= se. :-) --Vana From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 368 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89752 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 21:53:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 21:53:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.117) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 21:53:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 55977 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2006 21:03:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20060201210352.55975.qmail@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.82.63.229] by web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:03:52 PST Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:03:52 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <020120061910.16473.43E107B500083D930000405922007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-550197884-1138827832=:53471" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Favourite Quotes From The Silmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=3V33wzIkwFfC9AiL92JKzbBlCyzwnoTQ3vUgGrYdOKU65AZfz44tkBs X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-550197884-1138827832=:53471 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Okay, all you angsty people, I'll pick for you something happy. :P I'm rather partial to: "The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" (Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad) "And when this new star was seen at evening, Maedhros spoke to Maglor his brother, and he said: 'Surely that is a Silmaril that shines now in the West?' And Maglor answered: 'If it be truly the Silmaril which we saw cast into the sea that rises again by the power of the Valar, then let us be glad; for its glory is now seen by many, and yet is secure from all evil.' Then the Elves looked up, and despaired no longer; but Morgoth was filled with doubt." (Of the Voyage of Earendil) And of course, "Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!" (Of the Silmarils) There, now wasn't that much more uplifting than quotes about everyone's trials and sufferings?? ;P ~Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Bring words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. --0-550197884-1138827832=:53471 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Okay, all you angsty people, I'll pick for you something happy. :P
 
I'm rather partial to:
 
"The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" (Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad)
 
"And when this new star was seen at evening, Maedhros spoke to Maglor his brother, and he said: 'Surely that is a Silmaril that shines now in the West?'
      And Maglor answered: 'If it be truly the Silmaril which we saw cast into the sea that rises again by the power of the Valar, then let us be glad; for its glory is now seen by many, and yet is secure from all evil.' Then the Elves looked up, and despaired no longer; but Morgoth was filled with doubt." (Of the Voyage of Earendil)
 
And of course,
 
"Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!" (Of the Silmarils)
 
There, now wasn't that much more uplifting than quotes about everyone's trials and sufferings?? ;P
 
~Tarion


~T�rion

Bring words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. --0-550197884-1138827832=:53471-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 369 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94704 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 22:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 22:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (63.240.77.83) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 22:44:33 -0000 Received: from smailcenter46.comcast.net ([204.127.205.146]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2006020121454101300pu7vve>; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 21:45:41 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter46.comcast.net; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 21:45:40 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 21:45:40 +0000 Message-Id: <020120062145.15796.43E12C040004108700003DB422007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15796_1138830340_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Favourite Quotes From The Silmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=0cU6IkRpXfVOf688k8udlDskDOOdPA5nkHv9xNwrwgVHtntlsLWl X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15796_1138830340_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Vana wrote: > If the sentence ended there, I think I might agree with you, but I prefer to look at the sentence as a whole You bring up an excellent point with this. I am guilty of cutting the sentence off early. I simply do not like this wording--"and so ended"--here. It feels too abrupt, even though I do like (and agree) with the way it compliments the ending of the Silmaril, as you pointed out. > By fulfilling (well, not really, but let's go with it) the Oath, he has laid to rest his purpose in life, and really, there's nothing left for him to live for. Does fulfilling the Oath mean there's nothing left to live for? On the contrary, I've always seen fulfilling the Oath as a *beginning* for the Feanorians: The chance to resume their lives without the weight of the Oath constantly following them. (Not that I think this would happen, as they'd likely wile away their days until the ending of the world in a constant state of paranoia and excessive guardedness, but it's kind of the ideal situation.) I could ramble on and on but it's fifteen minutes past my time to go home, and for a goverment bureaucrat, that is thoroughly unacceptable! I've probably made little sense but might be able to make better sense tomorrow. Have a good night, all! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15796_1138830340_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Vana wrote:
> If the sentence ended there, I think I might agree with you, but I prefer to look at the sentence as a whole
 
You bring up an excellent point with this. I am guilty of cutting the sentence off early. I simply do not like this wording--"and so ended"--here. It feels too abrupt, even though I do like (and agree) with the way it compliments the ending of the Silmaril, as you pointed out.
 
> By fulfilling (well, not really, but let's go with it) the Oath, he has laid to rest his purpose in life, and really, there's nothing left for him to live for.
 
Does fulfilling the Oath mean there's nothing left to live for?
 
On the contrary, I've always seen fulfilling the Oath as a *beginning* for the Feanorians: The chance to resume their lives without the weight of the Oath constantly following them. (Not that I think this would happen, as they'd likely wile away their days until the ending of the world in a constant state of paranoia and excessive guardedness, but it's kind of the ideal situation.)
 
I could ramble on and on but it's fifteen minutes past my time to go home, and for a goverment bureaucrat, that is thoroughly unacceptable! I've probably made little sense but might be able to make better sense tomorrow.
 
Have a good night, all!
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15796_1138830340_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 370 Return-Path: X-Sender: elennf569@rogers.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58256 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 23:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 23:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web88111.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.232) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 23:32:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 41964 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2006 23:32:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20060201233254.41962.qmail@web88111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.30.217.51] by web88111.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 18:32:53 EST Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 18:32:53 -0500 (EST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <020120061910.16473.43E107B500083D930000405922007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-642480978-1138836773=:41937" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: ED LENNOX Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Favourite Quotes From The Silmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226967330; y=lBDddQl9o01ddTYqO-GVBF7BcD2TAHQvvdJ4qZPoIz5ZHkwPUXW4fJqz254uXe8 X-Yahoo-Profile: tenehil --0-642480978-1138836773=:41937 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi! Yes, indeed, that is truly one of my favourite quotes! I just love it, and I love the whole scene surrounding that quote. DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: Jenni (Digdigil) wrote: > �If none can release us�, said Maglor, �then indeed the Everlasting Darkness shall be our lot, whether we keep our oath or break it; but less evil shall we do in the breaking�. Oh, Jenni, I'm glad you named that one! I'd forgotten it...that line makes me shiver. So sad and hopeless.... *sobs* Jenni/digdigil "And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-642480978-1138836773=:41937 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi!
 
Yes, indeed, that is truly one of my favourite quotes!  I just love it, and I love the whole scene surrounding that quote. 

DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote:
Jenni (Digdigil) wrote:
> �If none can release us�, said Maglor, �then indeed the Everlasting Darkness shall be our lot, whether we keep our oath or break it; but less evil shall we do in the breaking�.
 
Oh, Jenni, I'm glad you named that one! I'd forgotten it...that line makes me shiver. So sad and hopeless.... *sobs*
 


Jenni/digdigil

"And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-642480978-1138836773=:41937-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 371 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladypear@blazemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91446 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 07:55:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 07:55:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.233) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 07:55:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n10.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 07:55:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 07:55:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2006 07:55:09 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 07:55:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <020120062145.15796.43E12C040004108700003DB422007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Vana Tuivana" Subject: Re: Favourite Quotes From The Silmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253685802; y=xkxMs1Uf_RkObElhJvTZRjU3BXjTvTkQL6r4FxpC2eB-hu3P_cI X-Yahoo-Profile: vanatuivana --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Does fulfilling the Oath mean there's nothing left to live for? > > On t= he contrary, I've always seen fulfilling the Oath as a *beginning* for the = Feanorians: The chance to resume their lives without the weight of the Oath= constantly following them. (Not that I think this would happen, as they'd = likely wile away their days until the ending of the world in a constant sta= te of paranoia and excessive guardedness, but it's kind of the ideal situat= ion.) > Hmm, that's an interesting point, but I have to disagree with you = again. After taking the Silmaril, what else does Maedhros really have in l= ife? What remains of his almost 600 years in Beleriand? Everyone he loves= and cares for is dead (except Maglor, whom I'll get to later), and his gre= at plans of unity and alliance among the Elves of Beleriand have been swept= away by Morgoth and treachery. He probably remembers the words of the Pro= phecy of the North all too well: "...the Valar shall fence Valinor against= you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall= pass over the mountains. On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar li= eth from the West unto the uttermost East... The Disposessed shall they be = for ever." If this holds true after the War of Wrath, then even if they go= back to Valinor as Eonwe tells them to face "the judgement of the Valar", = there is no hope: there is nothing for them in Valinor but bitterness and = shame. Maedhros cannot hope for forgiveness, either from the Valar or from= the kin of those who have been killed over the years in the three Kinslayi= ngs (and, yet more daunting, those slain Elves in their re-embodied forms).= Consider, when Maglor and Maedhros are discussing whether to give up the = Oath and return to Valinor as Eonwe offers them after the War of Wrath: "M= aedhros answered that if they returned to Aman but the favour of the Valar = were withheld from them, then their oath would still remain, but its fulfil= lment be beyond all hope..." And yet if he keeps the Silmaril and remains = in Middle-earth, what remains for him? He cannot hope to ever regain the t= rust, much less friendship, of those whom he or his kin threatened or attac= ked during the past Age; that includes most of the Elves who remain (except= those living in the east who stayed out of the power struggles in Belerian= d, I guess... will have to check on that, I don't know much about them). T= here are few of the House of Finwe remaining: Galadriel, Gil-galad, Celebr= imbor, the sons of Earendil if they count; I don't know what the relationsh= ip between Maedhros and these might have been, but I'm willing to bet that = it was something less than a warm happy fuzzy feeling. ;-P So, really, I = don't think that Maedhros had any life to resume, to put it bluntly. Perha= ps it's because of his position as eldest and de facto leader of the Feanor= ians; or his captivity by Morgoth; or the fact that he was the one who trie= d hardest to forge peace between the Elves and failed. But for whatever re= ason, his entire being, his *soul* or fea, was tied up in the Oath and the = Silmaril. And once that quest was over, he had nothing left to live for. = Maglor is a different story. He is not as fixated on the "fulfil-the-Oath"= mentality as his brother; he wanted, in fact, to give up the ghost and go = home: "Then Maglor desired indeed to submit, for his heart was sorrowful, = and he said: 'The oath says not that we may not bide our time, and it may b= e that in Valinor all shall be forgiven and forgot, and we shall come into = our own in peace.'" He still has hope -- some might call it naivete -- tha= t they can go back and resume their old lives. And so, dim and unlikely as= that hope may be, it's something to live for all the same. My theory as t= o why Maglor remains to wander the shores of Middle-earth after throwing th= e Silmaril into the Sea is that he is waiting, still holding on to that dim= hope that Eonwe might come back and offer him another chance to go back to= Valinor. Again, just my little ideas, but I like them. :-) (And yes, I = realize that I just deviated almost 180 degrees from the original topic, wh= ich was simply about quotes. Whoops. I think all this Silm-reading-discus= sion over at HA has gotten my mind in permanent debating mode. :-/) :-) = Vana (very, very tired at 2 a.m. and hoping that she didn't make too great = a fool of herself with her rambling ideas) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 372 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57192 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2006 16:19:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2006 16:19:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2006 16:19:35 -0000 Received: from smailcenter61.comcast.net ([204.127.205.161]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <200602021531480120084a8ge>; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:31:48 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter61.comcast.net; Thu, 02 Feb 2006 15:31:46 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 15:31:46 +0000 Message-Id: <020220061531.25367.43E225E1000F32D50000631722058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25367_1138894306_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Favourite Quotes From The Silmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=xCV761WQ9b-2eks_XVTsCmEpRte_H1yDiwbEkHdqXEAsnYQK_PnJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25367_1138894306_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Vana wrote: > Hmm, that's an interesting point, but I have to disagree with you again. No problem. It's just different interpretations. :) (That fact that I'm a hopeless Maedhros fangurl doesn't help! :^P) > After taking the Silmaril, what else does Maedhros really have in life? I can't say that he *does* have anything...but I can't say that he doesn't either. The fact that he's immortal makes it hard for me to gauge his perspective on this. To me, as a mortal, to lose the thing that I have been striving for for the last significant portion of my life might lead me to the thought that I have nothing left to live for...but Maedhros doesn't have twenty or thirty years left in front of him but the rest of time until the ending of the world. That's a lot of time to find some wisdom, a different outlook, a few new hobbies.... ;)Also, I've always been under the impression from LaCE (which I know is dodgy in terms of whether it is "canon" or not) that Elves often radically change their life's goals, so to speak, as they live their very, very long lives. This gives me hope that a guy who has lived his life pursuing revenge and trying to ally his dysfunctional family might eventually find something new to keep himself busy. (Now I have the funny image of Maedhros starting a 24-hour diner or taking up ballet in the very distant future.... :^P) > Maedhros cannot hope for forgiveness, either from the Valar or from the kin of those who have been killed over the years in the three Kinslayings (and, yet more daunting, those slain Elves in their re-embodied forms). As for the re-embodied Elves, it was always my impression (from LaCE again...and usually I shun that essay!) that they had to forgive all of those still living before they were granted a new body. This could be my Swiss-cheese memory--I am at work at don't have HoMe with me--but I seem to remember reading that. I'm not sure that I buy that forgiveness was beyond hope for any of the Exiles, including Maedhros and Maglor, by any living, including the Valar. But that could just be my pie-eyed optimist's outlook! But I believe that after a few millenia, maybe a few of them at least might begin to entertain the notion of forgiveness. > "Maedhros answered that if they returned to Aman but the favour of the Valar were withheld from them, then their oath would still remain, but its fulfillment be beyond all hope..." Yes, but Maedhros is not certain whether he will find forgiveness from the Valar...I don't think that he's stating in absolute terms, "The Valar will never forgive us." He's faced with two options: 1) Remain in Beleriand and pursue his Oath. 2) Return to Valinor and chance that the Valar will not forgive him for his Oath and will not allow him to pursue it...then he's really in trouble. He's probably figuring that, with all they've already done, there's not much more anger that the Valar can have against them. So why not stay and try to finish the job? If they get to Valinor and the Valar throw them to the depths of Mandos until the ending of time, then their Oath is lost and they face the Everlasting Darkness. I suppose that we differ mainly in our idea of whether Maedhros can ever restore hope and a reason for living: I like to think that--had he taken Maglor's road and taken a couple thousand years for thought and reflection--that he might have found that hope. > (And yes, I realize that I just deviated almost 180 degrees from the original topic, which was simply about quotes. Whoops. I think all this Silm-reading-discussion over at HA has gotten my mind in permanent debating mode. :-/) Lol! That's understandable. :) There seems to be a lot of online-list love for The Sil these days. :) (I always like when innocuous conversations take a turn for the deep end...but then, I have been known to ramble and worship the Patron Saint of Tangents!) > (very, very tired at 2 a.m. and hoping that she didn't make too great a fool of herself with her rambling ideas) Nah...you're more coherent than I tend to be at 2 a.m. I'm also hoping that I make better sense than I did yesterday, when I couldn't resist replying and typing like a madwoman to get home in time not to be late for my skating class! (the rambly) Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25367_1138894306_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Vana wrote:
> Hmm, that's an interesting point, but I have to disagree with you again.
 
No problem. It's just different interpretations. :)
 
(That fact that I'm a hopeless Maedhros fangurl doesn't help! :^P)
 
> After taking the Silmaril, what else does Maedhros really have in life? 
 
I can't say that he *does* have anything...but I can't say that he doesn't either. The fact that he's immortal makes it hard for me to gauge his perspective on this. To me, as a mortal, to lose the thing that I have been striving for for the last significant portion of my life might lead me to the thought that I have nothing left to live for...but Maedhros doesn't have twenty or thirty years left in front of him but the rest of time until the ending of the world. That's a lot of time to find some wisdom, a different outlook, a few new hobbies.... ;)Also, I've always been under the impression from LaCE (which I know is dodgy in terms of whether it is "canon" or not) that Elves often radically change their life's goals, so to speak, as they live their very, very long lives. This gives me hope that a guy who has lived his life pursuing revenge and trying to ally his dysfunctional family might eventually find something new to keep himself busy.
 
(Now I have the funny image of Maedhros starting a 24-hour diner or taking up ballet in the very distant future.... :^P)
 
> Maedhros cannot hope for forgiveness, either from the Valar or from the kin of those who have been killed over the years in the three Kinslayings (and, yet more daunting, those slain Elves in their re-embodied forms).
 
As for the re-embodied Elves, it was always my impression (from LaCE again...and usually I shun that essay!) that they had to forgive all of those still living before they were granted a new body. This could be my Swiss-cheese memory--I am at work at don't have HoMe with me--but I seem to remember reading that.
 
I'm not sure that I buy that forgiveness was beyond hope for any of the Exiles, including Maedhros and Maglor, by any living, including the Valar. But that could just be my pie-eyed optimist's outlook! But I believe that after a few millenia, maybe a few of them at least might begin to entertain the notion of forgiveness.
 
> "Maedhros answered that if they returned to Aman but the favour of the Valar were withheld from them, then their oath would still remain, but its fulfillment be beyond all hope..."
 
Yes, but Maedhros is not certain whether he will find forgiveness from the Valar...I don't think that he's stating in absolute terms, "The Valar will never forgive us." He's faced with two options:
 
1) Remain in Beleriand and pursue his Oath.
2) Return to Valinor and chance that the Valar will not forgive him for his Oath and will not allow him to pursue it...then he's really in trouble.
 
He's probably figuring that, with all they've already done, there's not much more anger that the Valar can have against them. So why not stay and try to finish the job? If they get to Valinor and the Valar throw them to the depths of Mandos until the ending of time, then their Oath is lost and they face the Everlasting Darkness.
 
I suppose that we differ mainly in our idea of whether Maedhros can ever restore hope and a reason for living: I like to think that--had he taken Maglor's road and taken a couple thousand years for thought and reflection--that he might have found that hope.
 
> (And yes, I realize that I just deviated almost 180 degrees from the original topic, which was simply about quotes.  Whoops.  I think all this Silm-reading-discussion over at HA has gotten my mind in permanent debating mode.  :-/)
 
Lol! That's understandable. :) There seems to be a lot of online-list love for The Sil these days. :)
 
(I always like when innocuous conversations take a turn for the deep end...but then, I have been known to ramble and worship the Patron Saint of Tangents!)
 
> (very, very tired at 2 a.m. and hoping that she didn't make too great a fool of herself with her rambling ideas)
 
Nah...you're more coherent than I tend to be at 2 a.m. I'm also hoping that I make better sense than I did yesterday, when I couldn't resist replying and typing like a madwoman to get home in time not to be late for my skating class!
(the rambly) Dawn Felagund


 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25367_1138894306_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 373 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22087 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2006 07:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Feb 2006 07:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.122) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Feb 2006 07:17:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 54520 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Feb 2006 07:16:41 -0000 Message-ID: <20060204071640.54518.qmail@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.82.63.229] by web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Feb 2006 23:16:40 PST Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 23:16:40 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <020220061531.25367.43E225E1000F32D50000631722058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-586967630-1139037400=:49227" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Favourite Quotes From The Silmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=IPmZQ7FDv_U_Et0DIOWoxvk05R2VSBq15V_Yx_l8ZXiTQJDsIS6NQAQ X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-586967630-1139037400=:49227 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Methinks we have another Game Theory choice here... (Who was it who brought that up over at HA Sil reading? Gwynnyd? Ahhhh!) The payoff of #1 is zero, the payoff of #2 is negative, and the only better option involves relying on someone else to act in your favor...Hmmm... ~Tarion DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: He's faced with two options: 1) Remain in Beleriand and pursue his Oath. 2) Return to Valinor and chance that the Valar will not forgive him for his Oath and will not allow him to pursue it...then he's really in trouble. ~T�rion --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. --0-586967630-1139037400=:49227 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Methinks we have another Game Theory choice here...
(Who was it who brought that up over at HA Sil reading? Gwynnyd? Ahhhh!)
The payoff of #1 is zero, the payoff of #2 is negative, and the only better option involves relying on someone else to act in your favor...Hmmm...
 
~Tarion

DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote:
He's faced with two options:
 
1) Remain in Beleriand and pursue his Oath.
2) Return to Valinor and chance that the Valar will not forgive him for his Oath and will not allow him to pursue it...then he's really in trouble.


~T�rion

Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. --0-586967630-1139037400=:49227-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 374 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladypear@blazemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94133 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2006 07:19:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2006 07:19:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.224) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2006 07:19:48 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n4.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2006 07:19:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2006 07:19:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2006 07:19:26 -0000 Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 07:19:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <020220061531.25367.43E225E1000F32D50000631722058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Vana Tuivana" Subject: Re: Favourite Quotes From The Silmarillion - Maedhros' Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253685802; y=frAxNJLLv-VkBCiZi8EKyFU0_HHWroF9YtPRGLiP5S5LRxQ7bhI X-Yahoo-Profile: vanatuivana --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > I can't say that he *does* have anything...but I can't say that he doesn= 't either. The fact that he's immortal makes it hard for me to gauge his pe= rspective on this. To me, as a mortal, to lose the thing that I have been s= triving for for the last significant portion of my life might lead me to th= e thought that I have nothing left to live for...but Maedhros doesn't have = twenty or thirty years left in front of him but the rest of time until the = ending of the world. That's a lot of time to find some wisdom, a different = outlook, a few new hobbies.... ;) > It's definitely true that Maedhros wou= ld not think in the same way as you or I think, so we really can't know wha= t was in his mind (except, as we've said, the "pain and despair" or whateve= r it was, me being too lazy to go look up the quote again. :-P) But by th= e same token that he has all eternity ahead of him, I would argue that he s= till might think of that eternity as empty and worthless. Again, look at h= is situation: he has few friends left, almost no family, very little remai= ning of a long life spent in Beleriand. I've always viewed Maedhros as bei= ng very connected with his family -- he was the one who always tried to kee= p them together, tried to patch things up with Fingolfin and his people (re= linquishing the position of King to him, for one thing), tried to be the pe= acemaker and protector (the Union of Maedhros, as well as him taking up his= abode in the spot most vulnerable to attack from the North). Almost every= thing he ever did was done with respect to his family, friends and allies. = What is there for him to do with no one left? > > Also, I've always been = under the impression from LaCE (which I know is dodgy in terms of whether i= t is "canon" or not) that Elves often radically change their life's goals, = so to speak, as they live their very, very long lives. This gives me hope t= hat a guy who has lived his life pursuing revenge and trying to ally his dy= sfunctional family might eventually find something new to keep himself busy= . > Hmm... interesting point. I've never read LaCE (which is mostly due, = incidentally, to my poor Tolkien-book ownership strategies: I try to get p= eople to buy me volumes of HoME as presents, since I'm flat broke all the t= ime, but all they say is "Lord of the Rings? You already have all the Lord= of the Rings books, don't you?" and buy me gift cards for Target. And YOU= CAN'T BUY HoMEs AT TARGET!), but I do believe you when you say that; it se= ems reasonable. But even when changing the goals of your life, it seems to= me, there must be something there to build on, something to form the found= ation, to be the "rock", like God says in the Bible about faith. And Maedh= ros has *nothing*. Except Maglor, actually... Which is an interesting tho= ught in itself, because maybe he thought of that and *tried* to work it out= , *tried* to find something else to live for, for his brother who would oth= erwise be left alone, but failed. I've often thought of that, especially i= n conjunction with the quote on Maglor, where he couldn't bear the burning = of the Silmaril and threw it "at last" into the Sea... which does suggest t= o me that he held onto it for a while before tossing it. And if he could d= o that, why not Maedhros? The Silm never tells us how long after the recla= iming of the Silmarils it was that Maedhros threw himself into the fiery ch= asm, so it's possible that he might have tried to keep it for a while. Som= eone should write about that. (Or has someone already? I've never read on= e, but does anyone know of any fics on this topic? I'd love to know of the= m. :-D) > > (Now I have the funny image of Maedhros starting a 24-hour d= iner or taking up ballet in the very distant future.... :^P) > If he did = start a diner, might he possibly call it "Nelyo's"? :-P > > As for the r= e-embodied Elves, it was always my impression (from LaCE again...and usuall= y I shun that essay!) that they had to forgive all of those still living be= fore they were granted a new body. This could be my Swiss-cheese memory--I = am at work at don't have HoMe with me--but I seem to remember reading that.= > They had to forgive those *still living*? Did they have to forgive th= ose who were dead as well? If not, it would seem a good tactic to wait unt= il all one's enemies were dead and then be free to just stroll on out of Ma= ndos, free as a bird... *wink* Just call me the Miss Loophole. Or, if yo= u prefer, Miss Unbearable Smart-Aleck. :-) > > I suppose that we differ m= ainly in our idea of whether Maedhros can ever restore hope and a reason fo= r living: I like to think that--had he taken Maglor's road and taken a coup= le thousand years for thought and reflection--that he might have found that= hope. > Yes, I think so. And I think that perhaps, if Maedhros had had = enough energy and will to live remaining, he might have been able to do as = Maglor did and, as you said, in a few more milennia find something else to = live for. But because of all that he suffered, everything that he worked f= or turning badly and destroying his dearest hopes and the bonds of his fami= ly and friends, he just didn't have it in him, at the time when he made his= choice, to keep going. Very tragic, and so terribly inevitable. :-( Tha= nks for that interesting repartee, Dawn -- my mind is now sufficiently refr= eshed to be able to try to stomach a few more chapters of Ann Radcliffe's "= The Mysteries of Udolpho" yet tonight. People say the Silm is tough to get= through, but Tolkien's got nothing on Radcliffe. Talk about dense languag= e... and I have to read 300 pages of it in the next two days. *dies a litt= le inside* :-) Vana (who is progressively becoming a nocturnal creature) = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 375 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76052 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2006 18:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2006 18:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2006 18:54:17 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2006 18:53:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2006 18:53:52 -0000 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:53:51 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: My Precious Awards (MPAs) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=3kteijhpdC9yIujEqUNrApcMaQa0IDrqGiAh1hzSfKyOV4JCYDx-RHo X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Currently the MPAs is struggling to get enough nominations and volunteers t= o run this year. This is a great time to nominate your favorite authors/sto= ries. Or even help in the awards themselves. Here is the link to the webpag= e: http://www.elvenlords.net/MPA/MPA2006library.htm The categories this= year are: Warm and Fuzzy Slash Het Elves Ficlet (includes drabbles an= d poems) Humour Song Fic Newcomer Known Author General Drama/Angst N= aughty MIA (Missing in Action) Please nominate some of your favorite sto= ries!! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 376 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32213 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2006 07:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Feb 2006 07:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 2006 07:27:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Feb 2006 07:26:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Feb 2006 07:26:29 -0000 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:26:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: My Precious Awards (MPAs) : update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=8fLgowvicx0qT4QaaCj6S5ns0pMcE3ZjTYR4llCSJJE87SllHWWat2A X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard For those interested: they have a LJ now! Please join! http://community.l= ivejournal.com/mpas_awards/profile From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 377 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25643 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 12:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2006 12:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2006 12:53:39 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2006 12:53:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2006 12:53:27 -0000 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:53:27 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=UGytt68RmYpIjGRQlC8WtcvwI7Gc4KW01-7H0C4jNJNy_mLcgBmq0oQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, since my brain is still pretty much awol after I gave birth to my = son more then 3 weeks ago, there is a plotbunny that is hopping around and = only got fueled when I read this line: Actually, seen in that light, Indis= really isn't much of a diplomat. Having Nerdanel move in was probably the = last thing she could have done to improve matters between her and Feanor. = (it was said in a comment on Dawn's chapter 41 of Another Man's Cage). Ca= n someone please help me out locating the exact canon quote where Tolkien s= tated Nerdanel moved in with Indis after she and F=EBanor broke up for real= ? It feels weird to ask it, but I really can't concentrate on things like t= his now and I don't want to base a plot element on a fanon factoid. Pesky b= unnies ;) Thanks in advance, I really appreciate the help. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 378 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8224 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 19:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2006 19:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc14.comcast.net) (63.240.77.84) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2006 19:08:59 -0000 Received: from smailcenter43.comcast.net ([204.127.205.143]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2006021918064501400e52s6e>; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:06:45 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter43.comcast.net; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:06:44 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:06:44 +0000 Message-Id: <021920061806.801.43F8B3B40005EEF90000032122007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=Cfw-Spu_JrMioIa3qk9N9Fm8A5oD4PGHkNmU5EYxPoi1zrz2rtTF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, Rhapsody, I found a footnote reference in "The Later Quenta Silmarillion" from Morgoth's Ring: "17 In the account of the marriage of Finwe and Indis in the present work (p. 238) thre is no mention of this estrangement, or at least separation. In the final work on Chapter 6 of the Quenta Silmarillion, however, it is implied that Indis did not depart with Finwe to Formenos, because it is told that Feanor's wife Nerdanel would not go with him into banishment and 'asked leave to abide with Indis' (p. 279, 53d). This is page 253 in my version. And the original quote, from the same source: "But Nerdanel would not go with him, and she asked leave to abide with INdis, whom she had ever esteemed, though this had been little to the liking of Feanor." This is page 279 in my version. I hope this helps! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 379 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87667 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 19:29:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2006 19:29:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.93) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2006 19:29:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 15577 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 19:28:23 -0000 Received: from m187p015.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.191.79]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub77.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 19 Feb 2006 19:28:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43F8C6FA.000064.02536@MARINA> Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 20:28:58 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_AS8YZRI66RO000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <021920061806.801.43F8B3B40005EEF90000032122007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=BwQePcmX8H78a0cChDVDLr4N52LJYWhaCeXMU01XQJ04NowcWMgK X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_AS8YZRI66RO000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can guess that Feanor was not at least happy with that. Dawn, where do I find your version? I would love to read it. Marina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 02/19/06 20:24:32 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question =20 Hi, Rhapsody, I found a footnote reference in "The Later Quenta Silmarillion" from Morgo= th s Ring: =20 "17 In the account of the marriage of Finwe and Indis in the present w= ork (p. 238) thre is no mention of this estrangement, or at least separatio= n. In the final work on Chapter 6 of the Quenta Silmarillion, however, it i= s implied that Indis did not depart with Finwe to Formenos, because it is t= old that Feanor's wife Nerdanel would not go with him into banishment and '= asked leave to abide with Indis' (p. 279, 53d). =20 This is page 253 in my version. =20 And the original quote, from the same source: =20 "But Nerdanel would not go with him, and she asked leave to abide with INd= is whom she had ever esteemed, though this had been little to the liking o= f Feanor." =20 This is page 279 in my version. =20 I hope this helps! :) Dawn =20 -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund =20 Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild. ~oOo~ =20 =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_AS8YZRI66RO000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
I can guess that Feanor was not at least happy with that.  
 
Dawn, where do I find your version? I= would love to read it.
Marina
 
-------Original Message-------
=  
Date: 02/19/06 20:24:32
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGui= ld] Nerdanel/Indis question
 
Hi, Rhapsody= ,
I found a footnote reference in "The Later Quenta Silmarillion= " from Morgoth's Ring:
 
"17   &n= bsp; In the account of the marriage of Finwe and Indis in the present work = (p. 238) thre is no mention of this estrangement, or at least separation. I= n the final work on Chapter 6 of the Quenta Silmarillion, however, it is im= plied that Indis did not depart with Finwe to Formenos, because it is told = that Feanor's wife Nerdanel would not go with him into banishment and 'aske= d leave to abide with Indis' (p. 279, 53d).
 
Th= is is page 253 in my version.
 
And the original= quote, from the same source:
 
"But Nerdanel wo= uld not go with him, and she asked leave to abide with INdis, whom she had = ever esteemed, though this had been little to the liking of Feanor."
=
 
This is page 279 in my version.
 
I hope this helps! :)
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
 
Are you a relentless First-Ager?
=
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.c= om/userinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.
~oOo~
&nb= sp;
 
 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
 
<*> To unsubscribe from this= group, send an email to:
 
<*&= gt; Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 
 
 
<= DIV> 
 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_AS8YZRI66RO000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 380 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26314 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 19:42:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2006 19:42:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.222) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2006 19:42:29 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2006 19:42:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2006 19:42:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2006 19:42:27 -0000 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:42:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <021920061806.801.43F8B3B40005EEF90000032122007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=uuSEf2luV9Jzcr3nhwqj4eZZdPrMK_WGXsOga9DsP44nAhug7d6wZFY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Hi, Rhapsody, > I found a footnote reference in "The Later Quenta Silmari= llion" from Morgoth's Ring: > I hope this helps! :) Yes! Yes! *gi= ves Dawn a very warm {{{hug}}}* Thank you so much!!!! You're incredible! = Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 381 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66468 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 20:43:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2006 20:43:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.200.82) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2006 20:43:07 -0000 Received: from smailcenter58.comcast.net ([204.127.205.158]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006021919554901200ivg7ke>; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:55:49 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter58.comcast.net; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:55:48 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:55:48 +0000 Message-Id: <021920061955.16542.43F8CD440007E98E0000409E22058863600B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16542_1140378948_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=JVwEWfIWad44jtXZPQ8C9XIZkacVuQOAT39-ukFjkrN1vt0cH-qY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16542_1140378948_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Marina wrote: > Dawn, where do I find your version? I would love to read it. I got those quotes from HoMe 10: Morgoth's Ring. I have the Houghton Mifflin hardcover version. It's a really hard book to find in stores--at least in my area--so I had to order it from BarnesandNoble.com. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=Jg0IrdMCH0&isbn=0395680921&itm=1 I highly recommend Morgoth's Ring, not only for the later version of the Quenta but because it contains LaCE, Anthrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, and the Annals of Aman. Most of the time, I complain about this "extra" canon, but it's nice to have for reference and there are plotbunnies to be found. ;) ~Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16542_1140378948_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: "MARINA" To: Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:29:39 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16542_1140378948_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16542_1140378948_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I can guess that Feanor was not at least happy with that.
 
 
Dawn, where do I find your version? I would love to read it.
Marina
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 02/19/06 20:24:32
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question
 
Hi, Rhapsody,
I found a footnote reference in "The Later Quenta Silmarillion" from Morgoth's Ring:
 
"17     In the account of the marriage of Finwe and Indis in the present work (p. 238) thre is no mention of this estrangement, or at least separation. In the final work on Chapter 6 of the Quenta Silmarillion, however, it is implied that Indis did not depart with Finwe to Formenos, because it is told that Feanor's wife Nerdanel would not go with him into banishment and 'asked leave to abide with Indis' (p. 279, 53d).
 
This is page 253 in my version.
 
And the original quote, from the same source:
 
"But Nerdanel would not go with him, and she asked leave to abide with INdis, whom she had ever esteemed, though this had been little to the liking of Feanor."
 
This is page 279 in my version.
 
I hope this helps! :)
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
 
Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
 
 
 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
 
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 
 
 
 
 
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE! --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16542_1140378948_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16542_1140378948_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 382 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86842 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 20:56:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2006 20:56:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.97) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2006 20:56:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 8511 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 20:55:35 -0000 Received: from m187p015.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.191.79]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub75.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 19 Feb 2006 20:55:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43F8DB69.000005.02624@MARINA> Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 21:56:09 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_LTCY6RO0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <021920061955.16542.43F8CD440007E98E0000409E22058863600B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=TyRcTyuJbrlOW9XcIaMhxAPcRPRZa0gFG191aN1hT24-8aInimJV X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_LTCY6RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Dawn, I probably wrote it wrong. I was thinking about YOUR story :) Can not get Barnes&Noble in Europe (which is a pity). I will check your life journal :) MArina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 02/19/06 21:43:14 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question =20 Marina wrote: > Dawn, where do I find your version? I would love to read it. =20 I got those quotes from HoMe 10: Morgoth's Ring. I have the Houghton Miffl= in hardcover version. It's a really hard book to find in stores--at least i= n my area--so I had to order it from BarnesandNoble.com. =20 http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry asp?userid=3DJg0Ir= dMCH0&isbn=3D0395680921&itm=3D1 =20 I highly recommend Morgoth's Ring, not only for the later version of the Q= uenta but because it contains LaCE, Anthrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, and the A= nnals of Aman. Most of the time, I complain about this "extra" canon, but i= t's nice to have for reference and there are plotbunnies to be found. ;) ~Dawn =20 -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejourI nal.com/userinf= o bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund =20 Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild. ~oOo~ =20 =20 =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_LTCY6RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Thanks Dawn,
I probably wrote it wrong. I was think= ing about YOUR story :)
Can not get Barnes&Noble i= n Europe (which is a pity).
 
I will check your = life journal :)
MArina
 
-------Original Message-------
 = ;
Date= : 02/19/06 21:43:14
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] = Nerdanel/Indis question
 
Marina wrote:
> Dawn, where do I find your version? I would love to read it.<= /DIV>
 
I got those quotes from HoMe 10: Morgoth's Rin= g. I have the Houghton Mifflin hardcover version. It's a really hard book t= o find in stores--at least in my area--so I had to order it from BarnesandN= oble.com.
 
 =
I highly recommend Morgoth's Ring, not only for the later versi= on of the Quenta but because it contains LaCE, Anthrabeth Finrod ah Andreth= , and the Annals of Aman. Most of the time, I complain about this "extra" c= anon, but it's nice to have for reference and there are plotbunnies to be f= ound. ;)
~Dawn
 
--
~oOo~<= /DIV>
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at <= A href=3D"http://www.livejourI nal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund">h= ttp://www.livejourI nal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund
 
Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out t= he Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?u= ser=3Dsilwritersguild.
~oOo~
 
&n= bsp;
 
 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:<= /DIV>
 
<*> To unsubscribe from thi= s group, send an email to:
 
<*= > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 
 
 
<= /TD>
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_LTCY6RO0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 383 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27329 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 22:25:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2006 22:25:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.223) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2006 22:25:51 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n3.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2006 22:25:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2006 22:25:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2006 22:25:50 -0000 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 22:25:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <43F8DB69.000005.02624@MARINA> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Pa4zGhgefW3u6Vp9t05AzYPnDDhD9myFkF26esEcNr7KEZrfmmhqi54 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "MARINA" wr= ote: > > Thanks Dawn, > I probably wrote it wrong. I was thinking about YOU= R story :) > Can not get Barnes&Noble in Europe (which is a pity). Being a= n European myself, I have the beautiful version of Morgoth's Ring from Harp= er Collin's... all in very shiny black, so you can obtain them Marina. So = very precioussss: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0261103008/qid= =3D1140387674/sr=3D1-1/ref=3Dsr_1_2_1/203-0377686-3995939 http://www.tolkie= n.co.uk/books/default.asp?id=3D21950 http://www.tolkien.co.uk/ Dawn wrote:= > I highly recommend Morgoth's Ring, not only for the later version of = > the Quenta but because it contains LaCE, Anthrabeth Finrod ah > Andreth,= and the Annals of Aman. Most of the time, I complain about > this "extra"= canon, but it's nice to have for reference and there > are plotbunnies to= be found. ;) I thought the sometimes very confusing Tale of the years as = well. But yeah Morgoth's Ring is a good buy, well all of them, but if you h= ave to pool your money ;) *Feeds her Nerdanel-bunny another carrot* Rhap= sody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 384 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90907 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 22:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2006 22:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (204.127.200.83) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2006 22:36:33 -0000 Received: from smailcenter48.comcast.net ([204.127.205.148]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060219223207013001qjlqe>; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 22:32:07 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter48.comcast.net; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 22:32:07 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 22:32:07 +0000 Message-Id: <021920062232.24931.43F8F1E6000EB6A10000616322007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24931_1140388327_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=BHI6B-iMIW5rrI-z8jheYwpdNTLwW9VvVpBG2Dyud6EWyr4VFyXg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24931_1140388327_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Marina wrote: > I probably wrote it wrong. I was thinking about YOUR story :) Oops. Sorry! *blushes* Yes, AMC is currently only available in its (still unfinished) entirety in my LJ. It will eventually be posted at lots of different and more accessible places, but since this is only the first draft and some of it is very rough, I'm not comfortable throwing it to the mercy of the general public yet. (Of course, it is available to the public in my LJ. But it just feels less available than to be on, say, ff.net or OSA or TFF.) But it is tagged here: http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/tag/amc The story is completely written and posted every Friday. (So long as Dawn finishes tinkering with the chapters on time!) Hope that's more helpful. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24931_1140388327_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: "MARINA" To: Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 20:56:45 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24931_1140388327_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24931_1140388327_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks Dawn,
I probably wrote it wrong. I was thinking about YOUR story :)
Can not get Barnes&Noble in Europe (which is a pity).
 
I will check your life journal :)
MArina
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 02/19/06 21:43:14
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question
 
Marina wrote:
> Dawn, where do I find your version? I would love to read it.
 
I got those quotes from HoMe 10: Morgoth's Ring. I have the Houghton Mifflin hardcover version. It's a really hard book to find in stores--at least in my area--so I had to order it from BarnesandNoble.com.
 
 
I highly recommend Morgoth's Ring, not only for the later version of the Quenta but because it contains LaCE, Anthrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, and the Annals of Aman. Most of the time, I complain about this "extra" canon, but it's nice to have for reference and there are plotbunnies to be found. ;)
~Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
 
Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
 
 
 
 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
 
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 
 
 
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE! --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24931_1140388327_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24931_1140388327_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 385 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92152 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 20:33:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2006 20:33:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.200.81) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2006 20:33:29 -0000 Received: from smailcenter58.comcast.net ([204.127.205.158]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006021919580501100klitne>; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:58:05 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter58.comcast.net; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:58:02 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:58:02 +0000 Message-Id: <021920061958.18130.43F8CDCA000D321B000046D222058863600B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18130_1140379082_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=SeF5Sgmp1kBZQPqs6m_RCfhgf6NgBLfXFjQVQg44vshYzwxErgFR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18130_1140379082_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You're welcome, Rhapsy. I'm glad it was helpful. :) I may not know a lot of obscure canon, but if "Feanor" is mentioned somewhere in it, chances are that I've read (and memorized!) it. ;^P Good luck with your plotbunny! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18130_1140379082_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:42:32 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18130_1140379082_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18130_1140379082_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote:
>
> Hi, Rhapsody,
> I found a footnote reference in "The Later Quenta Silmarillion" from
Morgoth's Ring:


> I hope this helps! :)

Yes! Yes! *gives Dawn a very warm {{{hug}}}*  Thank you so much!!!!
You're incredible!

Rhapsody






 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18130_1140379082_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18130_1140379082_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 386 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37082 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 23:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2006 23:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.97) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2006 23:13:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 22264 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 23:13:54 -0000 Received: from m162p003.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.188.35]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub75.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 19 Feb 2006 23:13:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43F8FBD7.00002A.03404@MARINA> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 00:14:31 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_78JY1OW2QL8000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <021920062232.24931.43F8F1E6000EB6A10000616322007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=C1_hPOAD3k1XM2mHTyddQHSjOykULbonuPjYmQKPdKhUaBJ_ujJx X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_78JY1OW2QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I do not dare to post at the ff.net at all. I saw so many weird things happ= ening there. Posted every Friday? That is good. Now I have a date for Frida= y :) Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 02/19/06 23:36:37 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel/Indis question =20 Marina wrote: > I probably wrote it wrong. I was thinking about YOUR story :) =20 Oops. Sorry! *blushes* =20 Yes, AMC is currently only available in its (still unfinished) entirety in= my LJ. It will eventually be posted at lots of different and more accessib= le places, but since this is only the first draft and some of it is very ro= ugh, I'm not comfortable throwing it to the mercy of the general public yet= . =20 (Of course, it is available to the public in my LJ. But it just feels less= available than to be on, say, ff.net or OSA or TFF.) =20 But it is tagged here: http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/tag/amc =20 The story is completely written and posted every Friday. (So long as Dawn = finishes tinkering with the chapters on time!) =20 Hope that's more helpful. :) Dawn =20 -- --------------Boundary-00=_78JY1OW2QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = <= TR>
I do not dare to post at the ff.net at all. I saw so many weird thi= ngs happening there. Posted every Friday? That is good. Now I have a d= ate for Friday :)
Marina 
 
-------Original Message-------
=  
Date: 02/19/06 23:36:37
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGui= ld] Nerdanel/Indis question
 
Marina wrote= :
> I probably wrote it wrong. I was thinking about YOUR stor= y :)
 
Oops. Sorry! *blushes*
 <= /DIV>
Yes, AMC is currently only available in its (still unfinished) e= ntirety in my LJ. It will eventually be posted at lots of different and mor= e accessible places, but since this is only the first draft and some of it = is very rough, I'm not comfortable throwing it to the mercy of the general = public yet.
 
(Of course, it is available to the= public in my LJ. But it just feels less available than to be on, say, ff.n= et or OSA or TFF.)
 
 
The story is comple= tely written and posted every Friday. (So long as Dawn finishes tinkering w= ith the chapters on time!)
 
Hope that's more he= lpful. :)
Dawn
 
--
<= SPAN id=3DIncrediStamp>3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_78JY1OW2QL8000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 387 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4880 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 23:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2006 23:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.97) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2006 23:16:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 25617 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2006 23:16:42 -0000 Received: from m162p003.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.188.35]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub75.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 19 Feb 2006 23:16:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43F8FC7E.00002C.03404@MARINA> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 00:17:18 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_UCJYR942QL8000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=JbBrqdPjgW477mhNCYoSv3mC1sYRPt3jCzMQ368SviJzZa1s2IRS X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_UCJYR942QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, yes! That is good! Thank you so much. I prefer to read them all in Engl= ish, because the German versions are sounding awkward to me. Just the Hobbi= t was translated so fantastic that I am still grinning.=20 Rhapsody, you shall rest a little. Sleep when baby sleeps and collect the = plot bunnies for the long naps of the baby :) Congratulations! Marina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: rhapsody_the_bard Date: 02/19/06 23:25:57 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question =20 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "MARINA" wrote: > > Thanks Dawn, > I probably wrote it wrong. I was thinking about YOUR story :) > Can not get Barnes&Noble in Europe (which is a pity). =20 Being an European myself, I have the beautiful version of Morgoth's Ring from Harper Collin's... all in very shiny black, so you can obtain them Marina. =20 So very precioussss: --------------Boundary-00=_UCJYR942QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Oh, yes! That is good! Thank you so much. I prefer to read them all=  in English, because the German versions are sounding awkward to = me. Just the Hobbit was translated so fantastic that I am still grinni= ng. 
Rhapsody, you shall rest a little. Sleep when baby sle= eps and collect the plot bunnies for the long naps of the baby :)
Congratulations!
Marina
 
-------Original Message-------
 <= /DIV>
Date: 02/= 19/06 23:25:57
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis= question
 
wrote:
>
> Thanks Dawn,
> I probably wrote it wrong. I was= thinking about YOUR story :)
> Can not get Barnes&Noble = in Europe (which is a pity).
 
Being an European= myself, I have the beautiful version of Morgoth's
Ring from Har= per Collin's... all in very shiny black, so you can
obtain them = Marina.
 
So very precioussss:
 =
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_UCJYR942QL8000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 388 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3486 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 00:06:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2006 00:06:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2006 00:06:36 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30EFB7480B6 for ; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 01:06:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 01:06:32 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <264304665.20060220010632@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <43F8DB69.000005.02624@MARINA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question - books on the net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=FsowGt2_QEdg0Xi2CHcwrwp7DRq_TJG_4Rh6sat0XMKD5N2K7Ho X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Hi :) r> http://www.amazon.co.uk/ I don't buy often on the net, but my friends who buy a lot of JRRT related stuff told me that the same books are cheaper in Amazon US than UK - the book and delivery price, too. Sounds strange, but probably true ;) I haven't checked the prices, but if you can compare them before buying the book. I'm European, too, BTW. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 389 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25982 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 00:12:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2006 00:12:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2006 00:11:59 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17B07480C4 for ; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 01:11:57 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 01:11:55 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1145293870.20060220011155@tlen.pl> To: MARINA In-Reply-To: <43F8FC7E.00002C.03404@MARINA> References: <43F8FC7E.00002C.03404@MARINA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=CmwEPkZB16cz-dQGi4wmMPvHOJRrMugV48UI477-FRZRvRZ_L7M X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Marina, M> Oh, yes!�That is good! Thank you so much. I prefer to read them all�in English, because M> the�German versions are sounding awkward to me. Have you got German translation of HoME? As far as I know only Spanish version was issued so far. Tolkien Estate or Christopher himself disagreed with translations of this series. There are some people here in Poland ready to translate the books if only TE agreed and they could find a company to issue it. For sure the stuff is not commercial, so chances are small. But if there was German translation and not so old that might mean that TE is willing to add another permission for others :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 390 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18640 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 11:46:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2006 11:46:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.222) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2006 11:46:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2006 11:45:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2006 11:45:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2006 11:45:29 -0000 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:45:29 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <264304665.20060220010632@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Nerdanel/Indis question - books on the net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=RTcA7-zf_tlzODNlFkSXJQP_XTM2DxcUJ3B-u0RefPpnFIWf4Ojf8Iw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Hi :) > > > r> http://www.amazon.co.uk/ > > I don't buy o= ften on the net, but my friends who buy a lot of < JRRT related stuff told= me that the same books are cheaper in > Amazon US than UK - the book and= delivery price, too. Sounds > strange, but probably true ;) No not re= ally because folks forget about taxes because you import them from the Stat= es. ;c) Within the European Union on the other hand. *grin* there are some = benefits. My hubby bought the books through play.com for me btw. But I thin= k, Marina, Amazon.de or Bol.de can deliver them as well, just as long if yo= u have the right isbn's. > I'm European, too, BTW. Nice, where from if I = may ask? Then I know in what direction to wave. Marina is next door to me o= r so it seems LOL. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 391 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59322 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 11:51:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2006 11:51:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.226) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2006 11:51:22 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n6.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2006 11:49:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2006 11:49:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2006 11:49:00 -0000 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:48:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <43F8FC7E.00002C.03404@MARINA> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=q3JG2Q8AhuEmIy7fuf65t8YZOs9SMCSRR9AgohM4p0WPBqL4yPJZjrI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "MARINA" wr= ote: > > Oh, yes! That is good! Thank you so much. I prefer to read them al= l > in English, because the German versions are sounding awkward to me. >= Just the Hobbit was translated so fantastic that I am still > grinning. = I know, I have the same with Dutch. Tolkien was very involved with the Du= tch translation. If I remember it correctly LOTR was the first book to be t= ranslated... in Dutch. > Rhapsody, you shall rest a little. Sleep when bab= y sleeps and > collect the plot bunnies for the long naps of the baby :) = You mean it's not weird to be half asleep and wonder why Maglor hasn't fed = the baby at all and you have to get up? ;c) I am working on a heavy Maglo= r/Celegorm chapter currently and somehow those two elves also surface durin= g the night LOL. What Fingon was doing there all of a sudden was beyond me.= > Congratulations! Thanks, we are very happy with our bundle of joy. Rh= apsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 392 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40891 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 19:30:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2006 19:30:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.94) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2006 19:30:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 4505 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 19:30:23 -0000 Received: from m147p022.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.186.86]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub76.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Feb 2006 19:30:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43FA18F2.000005.03404@MARINA> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:30:58 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_MJ306RO0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question - books on the net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=pdJ_7-_nyqAEKTbQk-BYCdnyqODTBuxwG00hp6r_AYmmxqdC2JDB X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_MJ306RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 The dollar is still below the Euro but adding shipping and if the customs = have a bad day, that too, I would freak out. I do have still my US shipping= adress for my ebay stuff (all those nice LOTR things).=20 I buy from amazon.de or from my local book store, where I only need to app= ear and they will say: Still no new manuscripts of Tolkien have turned up := ( I am south of you, in the middle of too much snow this year. Waves up to t= he Netherlands! Marina > > > r> http://www.amazon.co.uk/ > > I don't buy often on the net, but my friends who buy a lot of < JRRT related stuff told me that the same books are cheaper in > Amazon US than UK - the book and delivery price, too. Sounds > strange, but probably true ;) =20 No not really because folks forget about taxes because you import them from the States. ;c) Within the European Union on the other hand. *grin* there are some benefits. My hubby bought the books through play.com for me btw. But I think, Marina, Amazon.de or Bol.de can deliver them as well, just as long if you have the right isbn's. =20 > I'm European, too, BTW. =20 Nice, where from if I may ask? Then I know in what direction to wave. Marina is next door to me or so it seems LOL. =20 Rhapsody =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Y --------------Boundary-00=_MJ306RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
 
The dollar is still below the Euro but adding shipping= and if the customs have a bad day, that too, I would freak out. I do have = still my US shipping adress for my ebay stuff (all those nice LOTR things).=
 
I buy from amazon.de or from my local book s= tore, where I only need to appear and they will say: Still no new manuscrip= ts of Tolkien have turned up :(
 
I am south of = you, in the middle of too much snow this year. Waves up to the Netherlands!=
Marina
>
>
> r>&nb= sp;  http://www.amazon.co.uk/=
>
> I  don't  buy &nb= sp;often on the net, but my friends who buy a lot of
< JRRT r= elated stuff told me that the same  books are cheaper in
> Amazon US than UK - the book and delivery price, too. Sounds =
> strange, but probably  true  ;)
&n= bsp;
No not really because folks forget about taxes because you = import them
from the States. ;c) Within the European Union on th= e other hand.
*grin* there are some benefits. My hubby bought th= e books through
play.com for me btw. But I think, Marina, Amazon= .de or Bol.de can
deliver them as well, just as long if you have= the right isbn's.
 
> I'm European, too, BTW= .
 
Nice, where from if I may ask? Then I know i= n what direction to wave.
Marina is next door to me or so it see= ms LOL.
 
Rhapsody
 
=  
 
 
 
&nb= sp;
 
Y
=
<= /TD>
= 3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_MJ306RO0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 393 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38207 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 19:32:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2006 19:32:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.93) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2006 19:32:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 13312 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 19:32:20 -0000 Received: from m147p022.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.186.86]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub74.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Feb 2006 19:32:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43FA183C.000003.03404@MARINA> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:27:56 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_KE30G6G0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=RomTwPS3kVMED9mvkcNdt4xO9LmVV0hNL2BL6nwFX8Xt70nrj8Uf X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_KE30G6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Tolkien was also involved into the German translation and put his foot do= wn that the elves were translated with "Elben" and had hoped that they woul= d be the "Alben"...though latters one spook us Austrians very, very much :) =20 I know, I have the same with Dutch. Tolkien was very involved with the Dutch translation. If I remember it correctly LOTR was the first book to be translated... in Dutch. =20 > Rhapsody, you shall rest a little. Sleep when baby sleeps and > collect the plot bunnies for the long naps of the baby :) =20 You mean it's not weird to be half asleep and wonder why Maglor hasn't fed the baby at all and you have to get up? ;c) I wonder sometimes what stories Maeglin tells my daugther...when she tells= me that she wants to become and orc! =20 I am working on a heavy Maglor/Celegorm chapter currently and somehow MArina=20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_KE30G6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
 
 Tolkien was also involved into the German transl= ation and put his foot down that the elves were translated with "Elben" and= had hoped that they would be the "Alben"...though latters one spook us Aus= trians very, very much :)
 
 
I = know, I have the same with Dutch. Tolkien was very involved with the
=
Dutch translation. If I remember it correctly LOTR was the first book<= /DIV>
to be translated... in Dutch.
 
> = Rhapsody, you shall rest a little. Sleep when baby sleeps and
&g= t; collect the plot bunnies for the long naps of the baby :)
&nb= sp;
You mean it's not weird to be half asleep and wonder why Mag= lor hasn't
fed the baby at all and you have to get up? ;c)
=
 
I wonder sometimes what stories Maeglin tells my da= ugther...when she tells me that she wants to become and orc!
&nb= sp;
I am working on a heavy Maglor/Celegorm chapter currently an= d somehow
 
 
MArina 
=
 
 
=
--------------Boundary-00=_KE30G6G0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 394 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79098 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 19:36:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2006 19:36:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2006 19:36:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 18211 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 19:36:00 -0000 Received: from m147p022.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.186.86]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub72.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Feb 2006 19:36:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43FA1A42.000007.03404@MARINA> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:36:34 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_YS30WCW0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <1145293870.20060220011155@tlen.pl> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=Aqi6CqkoCbFOOVl8R01ynDDp_tULh01nCxrwFumzYwkyn9qeMPso X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_YS30WCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ai Sirielle, I only snooped into the books and decided to go for the english ones. I h= ave heard about HoME from a friend. Must be terrible. It would be nice to s= ee them translated into correctly. German needs more words than english to = describe things, now when Feanor would be translated correctly, they have t= o go to "old German" and Ai Elbereth, that would be too much for most peopl= e here to understand :) I guess I would be very alone pretty soon :) Where in Poland are you? Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Sirielle Date: 02/20/06 01:12:02 To: MARINA Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question =20 Ai Marina, =20 M> Oh, yes! That is good! Thank you so much. I prefer to read th= em all in English, because M> the German versions are sounding awkward to me. =20 Have you got German translation of HoME? As far as I know only Spanish = version was issued so far. Tolkien Estate or Christopher himself disagreed with translations of t= his series. There are some people here in Poland ready to translate the books if only TE agreed and= they could find a company to issue it. For sure the stuff is not commercial, so chances are smal= l. But if there was German translation and not so old that might mean that TE is willing to add ano= ther permission for others :) =20 =20 Suilad, Sirielle =20 sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ =20 =20 =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_YS30WCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
ai Sirielle,
 I only snooped into the books and decided = to go for the english ones. I have heard about HoME from a friend= . Must be terrible. It would be nice to see them translated into corre= ctly. German needs more words than english to describe things, now&nbs= p;when Feanor would be translated correctly, they have to go to "old G= erman" and Ai Elbereth, that would be too much for most people here to= understand :) I guess I would be very alone pretty soon :)
 
Where in Poland are you?
Marina 
<= DIV> 
-------Original Messag= e-------
 
From: Sirielle
Date: 02/20/06 01:12:02
To: MARINA
Sub= ject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question=
 
Ai Marina,
 
M> Oh,  yes! That  is  good! &n= bsp;Thank  you  so  much.  I &= nbsp;prefer  to read them all in English, because M> the German versions are sounding awkward to me.
&nbs= p;
Have  you  got  German translat= ion of HoME? As far as I know only Spanish version was issued so far.
=
Tolkien  Estate  or  Christopher &= nbsp;himself disagreed with translations of this series. There are some
people  here  in Poland ready to translate the = books if only TE agreed and they could find a company
to &n= bsp;issue  it.  For  sure the stuff is not co= mmercial, so chances are small. But if there was German
translat= ion  and  not so old that might mean that TE is willing= to add another permission for others
:)
 
=
 
Suilad,
  Sirielle
 = ;
=
 
 
 
 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
<*&g= t; To visit your group on the web, go to:
 
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
=
 
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is= subject to:
 <= /DIV>
 
 
 
 
=
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_YS30WCW0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 395 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30622 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 23:56:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2006 23:56:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2006 23:56:22 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE7E1376C8 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:55:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:37:29 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <535707842.20060220223729@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <264304665.20060220010632@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question - books on the net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=J9TIvy56U2x0TwafWuy_7wpzZCauPBh7hnFvTJn7Exm5jtZeAkc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, r> No not really because folks forget about taxes because you import them from the States. I don't think so, people in Poland really count every cent ;) But still they prefer to buy in US. Maybe the shopping costs the same if you count that Harper Collins wants more for the same book than US the company? I don't remember the name. So they find it cheaper. I mean regular prices, not promotions. I've just checked it on our JRRT board - post was written in August 2005, so we were already in the EU. According to author's example Letters of Tolkien were half a price in amazon.com comparing to amazon.uk. All depends on the currency rate, too. It might be different here and in Holland. Books from UK come faster, but it costs more - as he says. So he always buys from amazon in USA or Canada. r> Nice, where from if I may ask? Then I know in what direction to wave. Marina is next door to me r> or so it seems LOL. You need to turn East, for I'm waving from Poland :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 396 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39265 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2006 23:56:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2006 23:56:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2006 23:56:23 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19BB1376EB for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:55:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:22:26 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <841848518.20060220232226@tlen.pl> To: MARINA In-Reply-To: <43FA1A42.000007.03404@MARINA> References: <1145293870.20060220011155@tlen.pl> <43FA1A42.000007.03404@MARINA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=lLq1nn4g3DIgobevH5bZt6kO_5XQVfoX1HKPBCP2adcUDr-y238 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Marina, M> �It would be nice to see them translated into�correctly. German�needs more words than english to M> describe things, now�when Feanor�would be translated correctly, they have to go to "old German" M> and�Ai Elbereth, that would be too much for most people here to understand :) I guess I would M> be�very alone pretty soon :) I'm afraid it's the same with Polish - often a text after translation into English is much shorter. But it might need less words than German. I'm afraid that's the reason Christopher Tolkien disagrees for other translations - for they might be not adequate, changing the style to make language easier etc. And the other condition is - all 12 volumes must be issued at once, which is quite impossible when the books are not commercial, rather might bring some lost ;) Only maniacs would buy them , no one else now. The LotR movie madness is over, the market shrinks. M> Where in Poland are you? Beleriand, Himring, of course ;) In Szczecin, North West of Poland, close to German border. And where are you in Germany? Apart Gondolin ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 397 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37466 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2006 21:58:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2006 21:58:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.93) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2006 21:58:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 21117 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2006 21:58:33 -0000 Received: from m077p026.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.177.154]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub77.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 21 Feb 2006 21:58:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43FB8D2D.00000E.03876@MARINA> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:59:09 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_L252XFP0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <841848518.20060220232226@tlen.pl> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=XB6Il9xWc8ZKYL4-wT79_tfsIZ4Ud7dJ5-a9v248hc3x6E_tRcyr X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_L252XFP0000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_L252SPT1VA4000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_L252SPT1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Ai, Sirielle, Yeah, it is not easy with the translations. On the other hand I prefer to = read English to keep my language skills up. I should read more french, ital= ian and finnish too, but darn, there are no first age stories to be found := )=20 Himring is a nice place. I have an aquarelle drawing here of the castle. H= ow is Maedhros doing? I am acutally living in a town that is like Gondolin totally encircled by = mountains! A blast. I love it. It is Saalfelden in Austria, state of Salzbu= rg (yeah were good old Mozart is from). LIke you I am close to the German b= order, but on the southern end :) Marina Ai Marina, =20 =20 M> It would be nice to see them translated into correctly. German needs = more words than english to M> describe things, now when Feanor would be translated correctly, they = have to go to "old German" M> and Ai Elbereth, that would be too much for most people here to und= erstand :) I guess I would M> be very alone pretty soon :) =20 I'm afraid it's the same with Polish - often a text after translation int= o English is much shorter. But it might need less words than German. I'm afraid that's the reason Chr= istopher Tolkien disagrees for other translations - for they might be not adequate, changing the sty= le to make language easier etc. And the other condition is - all 12 volumes must be issued at once,= which is quite impossible when the books are not commercial, rather might bring some lost ;) Only ma= niacs would buy them , no one else now. The LotR movie madness is over, the market shrinks. =20 M> Where in Poland are you? =20 Beleriand, Himring, of course ;) In Szczecin, North West of Poland, c= lose to German border. And where are you in Germany? Apart Gondolin ;) =20 =20 Suilad, Sirielle =20 sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ =20 =20 =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_L252SPT1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
 
Ai, Sirielle,
Yeah, it is not easy with the= translations. On the other hand I prefer to read English to keep my langua= ge skills up. I should read more french, italian and finnish too, but darn,= there are no first age stories to be found :)
 
Himring is a nice place. I have an aquarelle drawing here of the castle. = How is Maedhros doing?
 
I am acutally living in= a town that is like Gondolin totally encircled by mountains! A blast. I lo= ve it. It is Saalfelden in Austria, state of Salzburg (yeah were good old M= ozart is from). LIke you I am close to the German border, but on the s= outhern end :)
 
 
Marina
 
 
Ai Marina,
 <= /DIV>
 
M>  It  would be nice to see= them translated into correctly. German needs more words than eng= lish to
M> describe  things,  now wh= en Feanor would be translated correctly, they have to go to "old Germa= n"
M> and Ai  Elbereth,  that &= nbsp;would  be too much for most people here to understand :) I g= uess I would
M> be very alone pretty soon :)
=  
I'm  afraid it's the same with Polish - often a= text after translation into English is much shorter.
But it mig= ht need less words than German. I'm afraid that's the reason Christopher To= lkien disagrees
for  other translations - for they mig= ht be not adequate, changing the style to make language easier
e= tc.  And  the other condition is - all 12 volumes must = be issued at once, which is quite impossible
when the books are = not commercial, rather might bring some lost ;) Only maniacs would buy them= , no
one else now. The LotR movie madness is over, the market s= hrinks.
 
M> Where in Poland are you?
<= DIV> 
Beleriand,  Himring,  of &nb= sp;course  ;)  In Szczecin, North West of Poland, close= to German border. And
where are you in Germany? Apart Gondolin = ;)
 
 
Suilad,
 = Sirielle
 
 
 
 
 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
<= DIV>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild= /
 
<*> To unsubscribe from this group= , send an email to:
 
<*> Yo= ur use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    <= A href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ter= ms/
 
 
 
&n= bsp;
3D"Add= --------------Boundary-00=_L252SPT1VA4000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_L252XFP0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 398 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40734 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2006 19:19:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2006 19:19:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.85) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2006 19:19:32 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2006 13:25:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2006 19:18:09 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:18:08 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Doriath question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=bUJkruXYELLDGY0DOjEHpR_UWPeyT4fdbWUsWbw6vI0dNKzkz0E X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Anybody know what ever happened to Celeborn's father or to Nimloth's father= ? Did they die in the fall of Doriath or before? Also, did any of Celeborn'= s kin besides Elwing make it out of Doriath after the fall? Thanks! Ellie = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 399 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49074 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2006 19:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2006 19:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.93) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2006 19:40:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 31035 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2006 19:40:11 -0000 Received: from m1697p016.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([80.121.84.16]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub74.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 23 Feb 2006 19:40:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <43FE0FC0.00005C.02844@MARINA> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:40:48 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_00O53EL5BHK000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Doriath question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=rRWnFktjtgJcBciXos4erNZVigsOuH6pjiM3cTEXGhgx8vUDMJ5l X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_00O53EL5BHK000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oropher did as far as I know and E=F6l had left way earlier. MArina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: ellfine2000 Date: 02/23/06 20:19:36 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Doriath question =20 Anybody know what ever happened to Celeborn's father or to Nimloth's father? Did they die in the fall of Doriath or before? Also, did any of Celeborn's kin besides Elwing make it out of Doriath after the fall? =20 Thanks! Ellie =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_00O53EL5BHK000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Oropher did as far as I know and E=F6l had left way earlier.
= MArina 
 
--= -----Original Message-------
 
Date: 02/23/06 20:19:36
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Doriath question
 
=
Anybody know what ever happened to Celeborn's father or to Nimloth's<= /DIV>
father? Did they die in the fall of Doriath or before? Also, did= any
of Celeborn's kin besides Elwing make it out of Doriath aft= er the fall?
 
Thanks!
Ellie
 
 
 
 
=  
 
<= TR> =
=3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_00O53EL5BHK000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 400 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 545 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 17:00:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2006 17:00:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.200.82) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 17:00:32 -0000 Received: from smailcenter48.comcast.net ([204.127.205.148]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006022416025501200itao0e>; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:02:55 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter48.comcast.net; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:02:54 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:02:54 +0000 Message-Id: <022420061602.7074.43FF2E2E000820F400001BA222007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7074_1140796974_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Website Update! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=6R5qgvyWj6YLJoLDVK0ZcAFvkhTGlSMxxeh2fTyHOkG8crf_tp0P X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7074_1140796974_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, all, Good news! I have completed the layout for our homepage, after much cursing and tugging of hair. Only my own, of course. ;) Once I have some actual content on the pages (versus the made-up stuff that I have there now), I will probably post the site to a free domain so that I can get feedback, test links, etc while working on putting in the archive and forums on our actual, bona fide domain. I have "recruited" my willing and ever-helpful family members to help me beta-test the archive once I get the courage to fiddle around with it, to test uploading stories, posting comments, all that good stuff. I might need to ask around here too, but that remains to be seen. I have a mind overflowing with ideas (hours coding in CSS, apparently, does that to me!) and so I will be sending out a much longer, rambling email sometime later to get the group's thoughts on these things. This email comes with the intent of proving that I *have* been working on the site (despite the snail-slow progress) and, yes, to squee a bit too. ;) Aside from some "webpages" I made for my RPG, this is my first actual webpage and my first attempt at CSS. For those of you overflowing with curiosity, I do have a screenshot of the layout, and I am open to feedback on it. I must ask you, though, to disregard the text, which is largely fictional (at this point) and was simply added to give me an idea of how the homepage will look once it's got actual content on it. Also, the screenshot was taken on my work computer, which has an ungodly huge monitor, so it'll look different on most other screens. (I have tested it on normal-sized monitors and it looks fine, if not better.) So I'll shut up and post the link: http://photobucket.com/albums/a265/dawnfelagund/?action=view¤t=screenshot.jpg Oh, and the white box in the corner is where our logo will go. Brittany is kindly helping me with this, as I am a disaster when it comes to web graphics. That's all! If you all have any thoughts on this, let me know. :) Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7074_1140796974_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, all,
Good news! I have completed the layout for our homepage, after much cursing and tugging of hair. Only my own, of course. ;)
 
Once I have some actual content on the pages (versus the made-up stuff that I have there now), I will probably post the site to a free domain so that I can get feedback, test links, etc while working on putting in the archive and forums on our actual, bona fide domain. I have "recruited" my willing and ever-helpful family members to help me beta-test the archive once I get the courage to fiddle around with it, to test uploading stories, posting comments, all that good stuff. I might need to ask around here too, but that remains to be seen.
 
I have a mind overflowing with ideas (hours coding in CSS, apparently, does that to me!) and so I will be sending out a much longer, rambling email sometime later to get the group's thoughts on these things. This email comes with the intent of proving that I *have* been working on the site (despite the snail-slow progress) and, yes, to squee a bit too. ;) Aside from some "webpages" I made for my RPG, this is my first actual webpage and my first attempt at CSS.
 
For those of you overflowing with curiosity, I do have a screenshot of the layout, and I am open to feedback on it. I must ask you, though, to disregard the text, which is largely fictional (at this point) and was simply added to give me an idea of how the homepage will look once it's got actual content on it. Also, the screenshot was taken on my work computer, which has an ungodly huge monitor, so it'll look different on most other screens. (I have tested it on normal-sized monitors and it looks fine, if not better.)
 
So I'll shut up and post the link:
 
Oh, and the white box in the corner is where our logo will go. Brittany is kindly helping me with this, as I am a disaster when it comes to web graphics.
 
That's all! If you all have any thoughts on this, let me know. :)
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7074_1140796974_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 401 Return-Path: X-Sender: alina_moi2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54552 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 17:45:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2006 17:45:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53206.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.76) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 17:45:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 55181 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Feb 2006 17:45:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20060224174538.55179.qmail@web53206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.225.142.195] by web53206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:45:38 PST Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:45:38 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <022420061602.7074.43FF2E2E000820F400001BA222007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-324519393-1140803138=:54445" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: alina nicoleta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Website Update! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235462409; y=wrGzetEOlI6DylWgv8QSLe8UEdtfoAV8DQs00DzyE0WH4oU2ZxlsWw X-Yahoo-Profile: alina_moi2004 --0-324519393-1140803138=:54445 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello! I've taken a look at the website layout and I think you have every reason to squee about it. It might not be the most spectacular and complicated thing around, but it is comprehensible, I like the way you have organized the menu and the other options. Navigating the site will be an easy task. And I like the way you have matched the colors, too. :) You should be very proud of yourself for getting this job done. I can see the screen-shot quite well, on my computer, and my screen is not the biggest one around, by far. I don't think that will be a problem for anyone, while viewing the site. Keep up the good work and I look forward to the site beginning to function. Great job and hugs, Alina. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --0-324519393-1140803138=:54445 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello!
 
I've taken a look at the website layout and I think you have every reason to squee about it. It might not be the most spectacular and complicated thing around, but it is comprehensible, I like the way you have organized the menu and the other options. Navigating the site will be an easy task. And I like the way you have matched the colors, too. :) You should be very proud of yourself for getting this job done.
I can see the screen-shot quite well, on my computer, and my screen is not the biggest one around, by far. I don't think that will be a problem for anyone, while viewing the site. Keep up the good work and I look forward to the site beginning to function.
 
Great job and hugs,
 
Alina.

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http://mail.yahoo.com --0-324519393-1140803138=:54445-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 402 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46694 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 18:44:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2006 18:44:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (63.240.77.83) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 18:44:30 -0000 Received: from smailcenter48.comcast.net ([204.127.205.148]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060224181942013001vuqne>; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:19:42 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter48.comcast.net; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:19:42 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:19:42 +0000 Message-Id: <022420061819.7512.43FF4E3E00024BB200001D5822007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7512_1140805182_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Website Update! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=XNntcQgKlH0OsuZojXjYLNtuyr_-j6VJGL19liEmJEM9D5akcGXU X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7512_1140805182_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, Alina. :) I'll probably redo the menu a bit; reorder the listings, add, take away. I just needed to prove to myself that the CSS code would work, so I tossed some random stuff together! I'm not going for a fancy, graphics-laden site; I'd much sooner have it be straightforward and comprehensible! So I'm pleased to hear that you find my rugged first attempt to have turned out that way. I'd sooner spent our bandwidth on more stories and resources than pretty graphics. Thanks again and *hugs back* Have a nice weekend! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ -------------- Original message -------------- From: alina nicoleta Hello! I've taken a look at the website layout and I think you have every reason to squee about it. It might not be the most spectacular and complicated thing around, but it is comprehensible, I like the way you have organized the menu and the other options. Navigating the site will be an easy task. And I like the way you have matched the colors, too. :) You should be very proud of yourself for getting this job done. I can see the screen-shot quite well, on my computer, and my screen is not the biggest one around, by far. I don't think that will be a problem for anyone, while viewing the site. Keep up the good work and I look forward to the site beginning to function. Great job and hugs, Alina. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative writing program Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and fantasy YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7512_1140805182_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Thanks, Alina. :)
 
I'll probably redo the menu a bit; reorder the listings, add, take away. I just needed to prove to myself that the CSS code would work, so I tossed some random stuff together!
 
I'm not going for a fancy, graphics-laden site; I'd much sooner have it be straightforward and comprehensible! So I'm pleased to hear that you find my rugged first attempt to have turned out that way.  I'd sooner spent our bandwidth on more stories and resources than pretty graphics.
 
Thanks again and *hugs back* Have a nice weekend! :)
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: alina nicoleta
Hello!
 
I've taken a look at the website layout and I think you have every reason to squee about it. It might not be the most spectacular and complicated thing around, but it is comprehensible, I like the way you have organized the menu and the other options. Navigating the site will be an easy task. And I like the way you have matched the colors, too. :) You should be very proud of yourself for getting this job done.
I can see the screen-shot quite well, on my computer, and my screen is not the biggest one around, by far. I don't think that will be a problem for anyone, while viewing the site. Keep up the good work and I look forward to the site beginning to function.
 
Great job and hugs,
 
Alina.

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--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7512_1140805182_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 403 Return-Path: X-Sender: alina_moi2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13801 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 19:31:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2006 19:31:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53202.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.72) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 19:31:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 60082 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Feb 2006 19:31:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20060224193122.60080.qmail@web53202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.225.142.195] by web53202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:31:22 PST Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:31:22 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <022420061819.7512.43FF4E3E00024BB200001D5822007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-118097415-1140809482=:46477" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: alina nicoleta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Website Update! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235462409; y=EMy7w6FMS-6SO9YbYRubCLUozD0Ma2GTFRrtjTKXaeOYtOJx_IGGxA X-Yahoo-Profile: alina_moi2004 --0-118097415-1140809482=:46477 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, Alina. :) You are most welcome. And I agree with your wish to make the site easy on the graphics, comprehensible, nice and smooth in terms of navigation. You are doing a great job so far. Let me know if there is any way I can help you, with my tiny, limited knowledge of anything internet-wise. I hope you have a nice week-end too. You have just made my evening and probably the following days really, really great with the new AMC chapter. The fangurl in me is floating in cloud nine right now. Thanks a million. Love and hugs, Alina. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --0-118097415-1140809482=:46477 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Thanks, Alina. :)
 
You are most welcome.
 
And I agree with your wish to make the site easy on the graphics, comprehensible, nice and smooth in terms of navigation. You are doing a great job so far. Let me know if there is any way I can help you, with my tiny, limited knowledge of anything internet-wise.
 
I hope you have a nice week-end too. You have just made my evening and probably the following days really, really great with the new AMC chapter. The fangurl in me is floating in cloud nine right now. Thanks a million.
 
Love and hugs,
 
Alina.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com --0-118097415-1140809482=:46477-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 404 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46133 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2006 12:55:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2006 12:55:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.226) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2006 12:55:19 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n6.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2006 12:54:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2006 12:54:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2006 12:54:47 -0000 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:54:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <022420061819.7512.43FF4E3E00024BB200001D5822007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Website Update! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=5KPrtm3mVA4NEe-zuV8H8Wq8uJsksSIuj8rRkZ_JoTgrEisD_XvzH9M X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: >= I'm not going for a fancy, graphics-laden site; I'd much sooner have > it= be straightforward and comprehensible! So I'm pleased to hear that > you = find my rugged first attempt to have turned out that way. I'd > sooner sp= ent our bandwidth on more stories and resources than pretty < graphics. = Ergo: user friendly. My first impression, besides the calming choice of col= ours. Congrats Dawn! Happy further fiddling, the groundwork has been laid, = now comes the fun part! Be sure it is tested fully, although I think everyo= ne on this list would love to have a go at it :) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 405 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52286 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2006 12:56:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2006 12:56:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2006 12:56:52 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2006 12:56:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2006 12:56:50 -0000 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:56:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <43F8FBD7.00002A.03404@MARINA> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=fVn7su-cyPWl9ue-t2amosJbG544b9_qL07tI27vjko_7Fu2p9T-vB0 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "MARINA" wr= ote: > > I do not dare to post at the ff.net at all. I saw so many weird >= things happening there. Heh, I saw this one and wondered what weird thin= gs were happening there. I am there, LOL, but I hardly upload things there = because it's a pain to do so. Dawn: important feature for the site. User f= riendly way to upload your material...;c) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 406 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93435 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2006 13:04:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2006 13:04:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2006 13:04:01 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2006 13:03:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2006 13:03:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 13:03:44 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <535707842.20060220223729@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Nerdanel/Indis question - books on the net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=J375RWiWx5AsR_2d3-3RGANa1WUpJqN_iNksBv6QGcIhgRLW35Sbjho X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai Rhapsody, > > r> No not really because folks forget about ta= xes because you > import them from the States. > > I don't think so, pe= ople in Poland really count every cent ;) But > still they prefer to buy i= n US. Heh *smile* I shop anywhere, being Dutch as I am, I go for whatever = place it is the cheapest. Sometimes I end up in Australia, sometimes in Jer= sey ;) > Maybe the shopping costs the same if you count that Harper Collin= s > wants more for the same book than US the company? I don't > reme= mber the name. So they find it cheaper. I mean regular prices, > not prom= otions. Nopes, didn't buy them directly from Harper Collins. As I wrote be= fore, we purchased them at play.com. Located I believe in Jersey (not the s= tates but those isles between Britain and France). > I've just checked= it on our JRRT board - post was written in > August 2005, so we were alr= eady in the EU. According to author's > example Letters of Tolkien were h= alf a price in amazon.com > comparing to amazon.uk. All depends on the= currency rate, too. And well, actions and such. I have dealt with enough= taxes when importing things. It's always that nasty bite that follows afte= r it. > It might be different here and in Holland. Oh you bet! > Books = from UK come faster, but it costs more - as he says. So he > always buys f= rom amazon in USA or Canada. Here we have a fixed price for books, even fo= r books published in other countries. So where in London I would buy a book= for 3 pounds, here in this country I pay the fixed price, no matter what t= he publisher priced it themselves in the said country. I felt like a kid in= the candy store when we were in London last year. Like... hubby, maybe we = should buy another suitcase.. for the books. > You need to turn East, for= I'm waving from Poland :) *waves back* My co-author for Written in Starl= ight is from Poland too! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 407 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15624 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2006 13:58:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2006 13:58:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.94) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2006 13:58:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 7698 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2006 13:58:04 -0000 Received: from m106p010.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.181.42]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub76.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 25 Feb 2006 13:58:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <44006293.000001.03032@MARINA> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:58:43 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_VHX8QL80000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=FgWlo6qL-Ihw2s2XwjmjnnBPv_2FIU5soNzYxHC3_k-jGVcicVRv X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_VHX8QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rhapsody, Well I watched stories disappear without reason, author had no idea either= why...stealing of stories... The uploading drove me nuts too and therefore I use now my website, OSA (t= hough so little Sil writters), dreamelf and this lovely place...once I have= figured all out how to do so :) Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: rhapsody_the_bard Date: 02/25/06 13:56:55 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question =20 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "MARINA" wrote: > > I do not dare to post at the ff.net at all. I saw so many weird > things happening there. =20 Heh, I saw this one and wondered what weird things were happening there. I am there, LOL, but I hardly upload things there because it's a pain to do so. =20 Dawn: important feature for the site. User friendly way to upload your material...;c) =20 Rhapsody =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 . --------------Boundary-00=_VHX8QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = <= /TABLE>3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_VHX8QL80000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 408 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36654 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2006 17:24:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2006 17:24:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2006 17:24:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2006 17:23:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2006 17:23:54 -0000 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:23:54 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <44006293.000001.03032@MARINA> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Nerdanel/Indis question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=2xCVNOXXZ1rHux8efW2GP6HDojWEeW5l-s6telStG5Dv776gt26pkXI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "MARINA" wr= ote: > > Hi Rhapsody, > > Well I watched stories disappear without reason,= author had no idea > either why...stealing of stories... It sometimes ha= ppens that they pull stories if the violate the terms.. without warning.. = > The uploading drove me nuts too and therefore I use now my website, > O= SA (though so little Sil writters), I am one of the OSA Silm writers and I= know plenty there... > dreamelf and this lovely place...once I have figur= ed all out how to > do so :) Isil (only active over at the Silm writers g= uild LJ) and I have a co-owned website :), anyway. Yeah. I know what you me= an! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 409 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69186 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2006 00:48:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2006 00:48:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2006 00:48:52 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2006 00:48:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2006 00:48:22 -0000 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 00:48:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <43FE0FC0.00005C.02844@MARINA> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Doriath question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=3aavX2L0h3clM-v7mhzXzlv1WfpU6No1jC06GeQ57b5-4VlDFOE X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Thanks. Ellie > > Oropher did as far as I know and E=F6l had left way earli= er. > MArina > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 410 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69366 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2006 05:34:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2006 05:34:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.197) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2006 05:34:00 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 68so598174wra for ; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 21:34:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.109.15 with SMTP id h15mr1202939wrc; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 21:33:59 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from ?192.168.1.4? ( [72.146.171.242]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 34sm2048787wra.2006.02.25.21.33.58; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 21:33:59 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 00:33:57 -0500 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3223758839_293875" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Marta Layton Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Website Update! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=-18gzWgzOfc2o7-FV7aiLJqM3xNQOI-q2031nzWeoC20EdPOq1i4gQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva --B_3223758839_293875 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: = > >> I'm not going for a fancy, graphics-laden site; I'd much sooner have = >> it be straightforward and comprehensible! So I'm pleased to hear that >>= you find my rugged first attempt to have turned out that way. I'd >> soon= er spent our bandwidth on more stories and resources than pretty > < graphi= cs. > > > Ergo: user friendly. My first impression, besides the calming c= hoice > of colours. Congrats Dawn! Happy further fiddling, the groundwork h= as > been laid, now comes the fun part! Be sure it is tested fully, > altho= ugh I think everyone on this list would love to have a go at it :) > Hey= guys... I know it=B9s been a while since I=B9ve posted here, and how this = topic isn=B9t closed, if so I=B9ll happily let it drop. :-) The first plac= e I post is my own website and HASA. That means that when I=B9m writing my = stories I automatically enter the HTML tags for bold, underline, links ot f= ootnotes, and so on. So it would be nice to have the ability to have the st= ory upload feature recognise these codes as HTML and mark the text accordin= gly. All my stories needs would be for the editor to enter the coding for l= ine bgreaks. If absolutely necessary I will enter

at the end of ev= ery paragraph =8B I do this for HTML anyway, where I don=B9t trust their ri= ch text editor. I know a lot of people like to be able to hilight text, cl= ick a button, and have the site make that text bold (or whatever) for them.= I am not one of them, personally. :-) Hope this helps you decide how to d= o your site. Marta ***** The problem with the French is that they don=B9t= have a word for "entrepreneur" - George W. Bush --B_3223758839_293875 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Website Update!</TI= TLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Lucida Grande, Verdana, = Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10.0px'>> --- In Silmarillion= WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote:<BR> > <BR> >>= ; I'm not going for a fancy, graphics-laden site; I'd much sooner have <BR>= >> it be straightforward and comprehensible! So I'm pleased to hear = that <BR> >> you find my rugged first attempt to have turned out that= way.  I'd <BR> >> sooner spent our bandwidth on more stories an= d resources than pretty <BR> > < graphics.<BR> > <BR> > <BR> &g= t; Ergo: user friendly. My first impression, besides the calming choice<BR>= > of colours. Congrats Dawn! Happy further fiddling, the groundwork has= <BR> > been laid, now comes the fun part! Be sure it is tested fully,<BR= > > although I think everyone on this list would love to have a go at it= :)<BR> > <BR> <BR> <BR> Hey guys... I know it’s been a while sinc= e I’ve posted here, and how this topic isn’t closed, if so I= 217;ll happily let it drop. :-)<BR> <BR> The first place I post is my own w= ebsite and HASA. That means that when I’m writing my stories I automa= tically enter the HTML tags for bold, underline, links ot footnotes, and so= on. So it would be nice to have the ability to have the story upload featu= re recognise these codes as HTML and mark the text accordingly. All my stor= ies needs would be for the editor to enter the coding for line bgreaks. If = absolutely necessary I will enter <br><br> at the end of every = paragraph — I do this for HTML anyway, where I don’t trust thei= r rich text editor. <BR> <BR> I know a lot of people like to be able to hil= ight text, click a button, and have the site make that text bold (or whatev= er) for them. I am not one of them, personally. :-)<BR> <BR> Hope this help= s you decide how to do your site.<BR> <BR> Marta<BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT></F= ONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0p= x'>*****<BR> The problem with the French is that they don’t have a wo= rd for "entrepreneur" - George W. Bush<BR> </SPAN></FONT> </BODY>= </HTML> --B_3223758839_293875-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 411 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34300 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2006 14:11:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2006 14:11:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (204.127.200.83) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2006 14:11:44 -0000 Received: from smailcenter59.comcast.net ([204.127.205.159]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060227141141013001sdroe>; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:11:41 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter59.comcast.net; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:11:40 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:11:40 +0000 Message-Id: <022720061411.18101.4403089C000D1A30000046B522070032010B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18101_1141049500_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Website Update! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=GQFo-wK9m39M_Ld8Lmx8SK7BXi_a55n9kJnintciEeNwwxcN8bwC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18101_1141049500_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rhapsody wrote: > Ergo: user friendly. My first impression, besides the calming choice of colours. Congrats Dawn! Happy further fiddling, the groundwork has been laid, now comes the fun part! Be sure it is tested fully, although I think everyone on this list would love to have a go at it :) Thanks, Rhapsody! :) My original choice of colors--when I shared them with Brittany for purposes of working on the logo--made her more or less go o.O, so I thought a change was in order. Viv had sent me a while back a link for a fic archive shell: http://www.efiction.wallflowergirl.com/forums/ That's what I'm going to use so far, as other archives have made use of it. I just don't have time to learn php well enough to write my own from scratch. Look how long it took me just to do the layout! o.O What did you use for the Sweet Dreams Sanctuary, if I may ask? Or did you write your own? Dawn, who's scared of php.... -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18101_1141049500_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html><body> <DIV>Rhapsody wrote:</DIV> <DIV>> <FONT face="Courier New">Ergo: user friendly. My first impression, besides the calming choice of colours. Congrats Dawn! Happy further fiddling, the groundwork has been laid, now comes the fun part! Be sure it is tested fully, although I think everyone on this list would love to have a go at it :)</FONT><BR><BR>Thanks, Rhapsody! :) My original choice of colors--when I shared them with Brittany for purposes of working on the logo--made her more or less go o.O, so I thought a change was in order.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Viv had sent me a while back a link for a fic archive shell: <A href="http://www.efiction.wallflowergirl.com/forums/" target=_blank>http://www.efiction.wallflowergirl.com/forums/</A> That's what I'm going to use so far, as other archives have made use of it. I just don't have time to learn php well enough to write my own from scratch. Look how long it took me just to do the layout! o.O<BR></DIV> <DIV>What did you use for the Sweet Dreams Sanctuary, if I may ask? Or did you write your own?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dawn, who's scared of php....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV></body></html> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18101_1141049500_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 412 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75897 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2006 14:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2006 14:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (63.240.77.83) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2006 14:17:24 -0000 Received: from smailcenter59.comcast.net ([204.127.205.159]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060227141709013001onnee>; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:17:09 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter59.comcast.net; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:17:08 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:17:08 +0000 Message-Id: <022720061417.24871.440309E40004ECE70000612722070032010B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24871_1141049828_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Website Update! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=2VaEJg0upOmQrfbGfyQRxV4IXMwuf8ZCskBfqUZzHdH9Cc91adDC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24871_1141049828_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Marta wrote: > The first place I post is my own website and HASA. That means that when I�m writing my stories I automatically enter the HTML tags for bold, underline, links ot footnotes, and so on. So it would be nice to have the ability to have the story upload feature recognise these codes as HTML and mark the text accordingly. Hi, Marta. Good to hear from you again. :) I don't know php, so I will be using a fiction archive shell. So--until I learn php--I will be kind of limited to the features that they offer. I'm in agreement with you that it would be ideal to be able to change formating with html. I can work either way but have certainly had times where entering the html is *much* easier. Btw, if anyone else knows of fiction archive shells out there, I'd be glad to hear it! Viv has already kindly sent me one link. (http://www.efiction.wallflowergirl.com/forums/ ) That certainly seems suitable for our purposes, but multiple options never hurt. :) Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24871_1141049828_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html><body> <DIV>Marta wrote:</DIV> <DIV>> The first place I post is my own website and HASA. That means that when I�m writing my stories I automatically enter the HTML tags for bold, underline, links ot footnotes, and so on. So it would be nice to have the ability to have the story upload feature recognise these codes as HTML and mark the text accordingly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hi, Marta. Good to hear from you again. :)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know php, so I will be using a fiction archive shell. So--until I learn php--I will be kind of limited to the features that they offer. I'm in agreement with you that it would be ideal to be able to change formating with html. I can work either way but have certainly had times where entering the html is *much* easier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Btw, if anyone else knows of fiction archive shells out there, I'd be glad to hear it! Viv has already kindly sent me one link. (<A href="http://www.efiction.wallflowergirl.com/forums/" target=_blank>http://www.efiction.wallflowergirl.com/forums/</A> ) That certainly seems suitable for our purposes, but multiple options never hurt. :)</DIV> <DIV>Dawn Felagund</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV></body></html> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24871_1141049828_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 413 Return-Path: <Juno@magic.ms> X-Sender: Juno@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80178 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 16:58:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2006 16:58:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 16:58:23 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 16:58:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2006 16:58:16 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:58:13 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <du4jr5+uuuj@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" <Juno@magic.ms> Subject: Exercise #15 is posted at "There and Back Again" & B2MEM X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=199036170; y=fIP1xYeNK4f1M-P5CbBiyT-3Rwr_Thmw6h-f0yHsGj6lSXwIHw X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic Hi all, Exercise #15 is posted at the writers' workshop "There and Back Ag= ain". "A Fish Out of Water" Sometimes our characters can become stuck in = a rut, doing the same things in every scene with the same results. So... W= rite a scene for your character--drabble, vignette, short story--that force= s him/her to deal with an unfamiliar situation. If you are interested in p= articipating, please visit the workshop and have a look at the details of t= his exercise: http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/69286.html **= * We would also like to invite you to join "Ring-a-Ring-a-Challenge", our = take on "B2MEM", the "Back to Middle-earth Month", which is taking place th= is March. The Henneth Annun Yahoo Group, the Henneth Annun Story Archive,= the writers' workshop "There and Back Again" and Tolkien Fan Fiction are w= orking together to challenge all writers of Tolkien fan fiction for B2MEM. = And here's the Challenge: In the "Tale of the Years" Tolkien tells us abo= ut what happens to certain characters each day of March 3019. We challenge = you to write about the character(s) he does NOT mention. ~~~ Today's entr= y in the "Tale of the Years" is: "March 1. Frodo begins the passage of the= Dead Marshes at dawn. Entmoot continues. Aragorn meets Gandalf the White. = They set out for Edoras. Faramir leaves Minas Tirith on an errand to Ithili= en." ~~~ So what happens to the characters NOT mentioned in this entry by= name? Or characters, such as wives, children or bad guys, that must have e= xisted, but were never mentioned at all? Here's your chance: tell us about= the characters that Tolkien did not mention for this day in Middle-earth, = March 3019! Every day the entry of the "Tale of the Years" will be posted = as a new writing cue at "There and Back Again" and the other participating = groups and sites. Visit "There and Back Again", have a look at the daily wr= iting cue and come back to Middle-earth! Yours Aranel Took and JunoMagic, = the moderators of "There 'n' Back" *** "There and Back Again (and how to = get there in the first place)" - a writers' workshop for Tolkien fan fictio= n in LJ style: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dthere_n_back = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 414 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5601 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 17:50:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2006 17:50:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 17:50:12 -0000 Received: from smailcenter76.comcast.net ([204.127.205.176]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006030116552501100kpt1ee>; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:55:25 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter76.comcast.net; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:55:24 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:55:24 +0000 Message-Id: <030120061655.20897.4405D1FC00028B95000051A122070245530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20897_1141232124_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: March 2006 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=F7rZ1tuW1pa2QhjRoUP2QpDw_kqX61gy5LMnRe73vlI1PBZ7kV7b X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20897_1141232124_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, everyone! Our March 2006 newsletter is posted in our LiveJournal community: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/46370.html A new month brings a new challenge and a new quote to (hopefully) inspire you. In addition, SWG will be participating in "Back to Middle-earth Month," so check it out and feel free to share your Sil-related B2MEM stuff on our list and/or in our LJ! Please remember that challenges do not expire here. You are welcome to write for one of the challenges whenever you wish, and all Sil-related writing--including challenge entries--can be shared in our LJ. You do not have to be a member to post in our LJ but must only have a (free) LJ account. Also, new ideas for challenges are always welcome; simply drop me a line, and we'll take it from there. And those of you with favorite quotes, I'd love to hear your suggestions for our quote-of-the-month challenge. (Didn't we just have a discussion about favorite quotes here as well?) Best wishes to all for a prosperous, inspired month! Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@comcast.net -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20897_1141232124_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html><body> <DIV>Greetings, everyone!</DIV> <DIV>Our March 2006 newsletter is posted in our LiveJournal community:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/46370.html">http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/46370.html</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A new month brings a new challenge and a new quote to (hopefully) inspire you. In addition, SWG will be participating in "Back to Middle-earth Month," so check it out and feel free to share your Sil-related B2MEM stuff on our list and/or in our LJ!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please remember that challenges do not expire here. You are welcome to write for one of the challenges whenever you wish, and all Sil-related writing--including challenge entries--can be shared in our LJ. You do not have to be a member to post in our LJ but must only have a (free) LJ account.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, new ideas for challenges are always welcome; simply drop me a line, and we'll take it from there. And those of you with favorite quotes, I'd love to hear your suggestions for our quote-of-the-month challenge. (Didn't we just have a discussion about favorite quotes here as well?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best wishes to all for a prosperous, inspired month!</DIV> <DIV>Dawn Felagund</DIV> <DIV><A href="mailto:DawnFelagund@comcast.net">DawnFelagund@comcast.net</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV></body></html> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20897_1141232124_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 415 Return-Path: <samthase@aon.at> X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96873 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 19:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2006 19:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.97) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 19:37:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 2022 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 19:37:56 -0000 Received: from m1725p024.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([80.121.87.152]) (envelope-sender <samthase@aon.at>) by smarthub75.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; 1 Mar 2006 19:37:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <4405F83C.00001A.02124@MARINA> Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:38:36 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_CWRG9Y21VA4000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <030120061655.20897.4405D1FC00028B95000051A122070245530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" <samthase@aon.at> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] March 2006 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=xOCAk5tEMwEw2cx4DrYDfGb_bTJJ3j911aTfFjtlx8HTfJo2dPBV X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_CWRG9Y21VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dawn, only Feanorians? Can I....you know...there is that elf...that I like....so= much....of maybe...another one? Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 03/01/06 18:50:21 To: SWG Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] March 2006 Newsletter =20 Greetings, everyone! Our March 2006 newsletter is posted in our LiveJournal community: =20 http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/46370.html =20 A new month brings a new challenge and a new quote to (hopefully) inspire = you. In addition, SWG will be participating in "Back to Middle-earth Month,= " so check it out and feel free to share your Sil-related B2MEM stuff on ou= r list and/or in our LJ! =20 Please remember that challenges do not expire here. You are welcome to wri= te for one of the challenges whenever you wish, and all Sil-related writing= --including challenge entries--can be shared in our LJ. You do not have to = be a member to post in our LJ but must only have a (free) LJ account =20 Also, new ideas for challenges are always welcome; simply drop me a line, = and we'll take it from there. And those of you with favorite quotes, I'd lo= ve to hear your suggestions for our quote-of-the-month challenge. (Didn't w= e just have a discussion about favorite quotes here as well?) =20 Best wishes to all for a prosperous, inspired month! Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@comcast.net =20 -- ~oOo~=20 Dawn Felagund=20 Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund=20 Are you a relentless First-Ager?=20 Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.=20 ~oOo~ SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative w= riting program=20 Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and = fantasy=20 YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS=20 Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 --------------Boundary-00=_CWRG9Y21VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset= =3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"IncrediMail 1.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> = <BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: 0px 0px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 5px 1= 0px 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D"" scroll=3Dye= s ORGYPOS=3D"0"> <TABLE id=3DINCREDIMAINTABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding= =3D2 width=3D"100%" border=3D0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; CURSOR: auto; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" width=3D"100%"> <D= IV>Dawn,</DIV> <DIV>only Feanorians? Can I....you know...there is that elf.= ..that I like....so much....of maybe...another one?</DIV> <DIV>Marina = </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=3DIncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Origina= l Message-------</I></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=3Dreceivestrings> <DIV= dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>From:</B></I> <A href=3D"mailto:= DawnFelagund@comcast.net">DawnFelagund@comcast.net</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>Date:</B></I> 03/01/06 18:50:21</DIV> <DIV= dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>To:</B></I> <A href=3D"mailto:Si= lmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com">SWG</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style= =3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>Subject:</B></I> [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Marc= h 2006 Newsletter</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Greetings, everyone!</= DIV> <DIV>Our March 2006 newsletter is posted in our LiveJournal community:= </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href=3D"http://community.livejournal.com/s= ilwritersguild/46370.html">http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild= /46370.html</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A new month brings a new chall= enge and a new quote to (hopefully) inspire you. In addition, SWG will be p= articipating in "Back to Middle-earth Month," so check it out and feel free= to share your Sil-related B2MEM stuff on our list and/or in our LJ!</DIV> = <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please remember that challenges do not expire here. = You are welcome to write for one of the challenges whenever you wish, and a= ll Sil-related writing--including challenge entries--can be shared in our L= J. You do not have to be a member to post in our LJ but must only have a (f= ree) LJ account.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, new ideas for challenge= s are always welcome; simply drop me a line, and we'll take it from there. = And those of you with favorite quotes, I'd love to hear your suggestions fo= r our quote-of-the-month challenge. (Didn't we just have a discussion about= favorite quotes here as well?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best wishes to= all for a prosperous, inspired month!</DIV> <DIV>Dawn Felagund</DIV> <DIV>= <A href=3D"mailto:DawnFelagund@comcast.net">DawnFelagund@comcast.net</A></D= IV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=3Dsignature id=3Dsignature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR= >Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejou= rnal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless Fir= st-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejo= urnal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV> <DIV> <= /DIV></TD></TR> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDIFOOTER width=3D"100%"> <TABLE cellSpac= ing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD width=3D"100%"></T= D> <TD id=3DINCREDISOUND vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dmiddle></TD> <TD id=3DINCR= EDIANIM vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dmiddle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>= </TBODY></TABLE><SPAN id=3DIncrediStamp><SPAN dir=3Dltr><A href=3D"http://w= ww.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=3D96917"><IMG alt=3D"Add FUN to your email = - CLICK HERE!" hspace=3D0 src=3D"http://www2.incredimail.com/contents/stamp= s/imstp_heads_en.gif" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></A></SPAN></SPAN></BODY>= </HTML> --------------Boundary-00=_CWRG9Y21VA4000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 416 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6489 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 20:05:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2006 20:05:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 20:05:53 -0000 Received: from smailcenter48.comcast.net ([204.127.205.148]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006030119441201100kmneme>; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:44:12 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter48.comcast.net; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:44:10 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:44:10 +0000 Message-Id: <030120061944.22796.4405F98A0006213E0000590C22007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_22796_1141242250_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] March 2006 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=h6WbTGG37aW19CHRzShUql9u5nFuD9jNivd-N0gnCjnBLzRhuULZ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_22796_1141242250_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Marina, Nope, any character is fair game for any of our challenges or activities. So that Elf that you kinda sorta like just a lil bit...go for it! :^D Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_22796_1141242250_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html><body> <DIV>Hi, Marina,</DIV> <DIV>Nope, any character is fair game for any of our challenges or activities. So that Elf that you kinda sorta like just a lil bit...go for it! :^D</DIV> <DIV>Dawn</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV></body></html> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_22796_1141242250_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 417 Return-Path: <samthase@aon.at> X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91239 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 20:43:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2006 20:43:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.93) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 20:42:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 9572 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 20:42:53 -0000 Received: from m185p007.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.191.7]) (envelope-sender <samthase@aon.at>) by smarthub74.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; 1 Mar 2006 20:42:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <44060775.000064.02124@MARINA> Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:43:33 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_LWUGZRI66RO000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <030120061944.22796.4405F98A0006213E0000590C22007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" <samthase@aon.at> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] March 2006 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=vSt0k_TjNmMjArFMReAA6KRcSHtfK86DHJETqYLIdzeF1aYaGsgS X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_LWUGZRI66RO000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dawn, thank you very much!=20 I will bug you for the uploading then again :) Marina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 03/01/06 21:06:01 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] March 2006 Newsletter =20 Hi, Marina, Nope, any character is fair game for any of our challenges or activities. = So that Elf that you kinda sorta like just a lil bit...go for it! :^D Dawn =20 -- ~oOo~=20 Dawn Felagund=20 Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund=20 Are you a relentless First-Ager?=20 Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.=20 ~oOo~ SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative w= riting program=20 Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and = fantasy=20 YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS=20 Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 --------------Boundary-00=_LWUGZRI66RO000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset= =3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"IncrediMail 1.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> = <BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: 0px 0px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 5px 1= 0px 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D"" scroll=3Dye= s ORGYPOS=3D"0"> <TABLE id=3DINCREDIMAINTABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding= =3D2 width=3D"100%" border=3D0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; CURSOR: auto; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" width=3D"100%"> <D= IV>Dawn,</DIV> <DIV>thank you very much! </DIV> <DIV>I will bug you for the= uploading then again :)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Marina</DIV> <DI= V> </DIV> <DIV id=3DIncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-= ------</I></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=3Dreceivestrings> <DIV dir=3Dltr= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>From:</B></I> <A href=3D"mailto:DawnFelagu= nd@comcast.net">DawnFelagund@comcast.net</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"= FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>Date:</B></I> 03/01/06 21:06:01</DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>To:</B></I> <A href=3D"mailto:Silmarillion= WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com">SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com</A><= /DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>Subject:</B></I> Re: [= SilmarillionWritersGuild] March 2006 Newsletter</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DI= V> <DIV>Hi, Marina,</DIV> <DIV>Nope, any character is fair game for any of = our challenges or activities. So that Elf that you kinda sorta like just a = lil bit...go for it! :^D</DIV> <DIV>Dawn</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class= =3Dsignature id=3Dsignature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stori= es or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ddaw= n_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silma= rillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dsi= lwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></TD></TR> <TR> <TD id=3DIN= CREDIFOOTER width=3D"100%"> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D= "100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD width=3D"100%"></TD> <TD id=3DINCREDISOUND vAlign= =3Dbottom align=3Dmiddle></TD> <TD id=3DINCREDIANIM vAlign=3Dbottom align= =3Dmiddle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><SPAN id=3DIn= crediStamp><SPAN dir=3Dltr><A href=3D"http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?= id=3D96917"><IMG alt=3D"Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!" hspace=3D0 src= =3D"http://www2.incredimail.com/contents/stamps/imstp_heads_en.gif" align= =3Dbaseline border=3D0></A></SPAN></SPAN></BODY></HTML> --------------Boundary-00=_LWUGZRI66RO000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 418 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89340 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 21:13:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2006 21:13:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (204.127.200.83) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 21:13:09 -0000 Received: from smailcenter76.comcast.net ([204.127.205.176]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060301204921013001vrvhe>; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:49:21 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter76.comcast.net; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:49:19 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:49:19 +0000 Message-Id: <030120062049.17879.440608CF000851C6000045D722070245530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17879_1141246159_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] March 2006 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=Z1ppug9GM4RXjwt7mkilzBwGGu2WPCWKv4oL_qBTe7hI-9hHFzaE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17879_1141246159_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Any time. :) That's what mods are for! (And there's not much else to do around here--"here" being work--truth be known. ;^D) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17879_1141246159_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html><body> <DIV>Any time. :) That's what mods are for! (And there's not much else to do around here--"here" being work--truth be known. ;^D)</DIV> <DIV>Dawn</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV></body></html> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17879_1141246159_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 419 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31628 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 17:35:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 17:35:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (63.240.77.83) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 17:35:46 -0000 Received: from smailcenter73.comcast.net ([204.127.205.173]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2006030817234101300o138le>; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:23:41 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter73.comcast.net; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:23:41 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:23:41 +0000 Message-Id: <030820061723.1317.440F131C000A40DD0000052522070216330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1317_1141838621_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Silmarillion Group Directory X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=cT8GF8qkTWsszDJQHorwpV8K7THGiN7DASsU_4x53LPXvEmRuWK2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1317_1141838621_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, all! I'm hoping over the next few weeks, when I can grab a spare moment, to run some ideas by the group regarding things that I want to do once we have our new website. I appreciate any suggestions, additions, or concerns that you all might have. If you're not comfortable posting to the list as a whole, I can always be reached at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or DawnFelagund on YIM. One of the things I would like to do is to have a Reference section. And within this Reference section, I would like to have a directory of groups related to The Sil (or Tolkien in general, including The Sil). This way, writers can find archives/references/groups that suit their needs and groups can reach members who share their interests. I know from experience that it can be frustrating--as a member--to find a place to meet your needs and frustrating also as a moderator to meet an audience that might be interested in your group. As far as I know--and correct me if I'm wrong--no such animal yet exists. Anyway, I've been pondering this the past few weeks and writing notes to myself, and here is what I have so far. I would like to organize the directory alphabetically by name *and* by category, kind of like the Yellow Pages. So a slash writer interested in finding slash archives could search "Archives" or "Slash" and hopefully--between the two--meet her needs. Here are the categories I have come up with so far. Please let me know if you think of anything to add. Of course, we can continue to add categories once the site is running, but I would like to have as many options for owners/mods to choose from as possible. -Archive (example: OSA, HASA, SoA) -Canon reference (example: Encyclopedia of Arda) -Language/naming (example: Ardalambion) -Character fan listing (example: the Feanor fanlisting) -Character community (example: House of Feanor) -Discussion group/forum (example: Silmfic, Henneth-Annun, or our Yahoo! group) -Slash (example: Library of Moria, Of Elves and Men) -Het (example: OSA) -Adult (example: adult ff.net) -Family-friendly (example: Stories of Arda) -RPG -LJ community (example: house_of_feanor, silwritersguild) -Other journal communities?--I only belong to LJ, so I don't know how other journal services like Greatest Journal, MySpace, etc work. Do they also have communities? -"Mary Sue" * -Crossover -AU -Elf-centric (example: Elf Fetish) -Men-centric -Art gallery (example: tolkienfanart.com, Elfwood) -Writers' workshop (example: There 'n' Back) -Writers' resource/reference (example: online dictionaries/thesauri, grammar guides) -Humor -Drabbles -Poetry -Challenges (example: Tolkien Weekly) -General Tolkien (example: theonering.net) -Reading groups -Awards (example: the Mithril Awards, the Galvorn Awards) *I hate to call this category "Mary Sue" because I find it a mostly empty and insulting label. However, I know that some "Mary Sue" writers proudly label themselves as such. I'd like to include a category for such groups and archives, but I'm at a loss of what to call it, as I don't want to insult anyone's choice of topic or genre. Any suggestions? In general news, as many of you know, I have the layout of our site just about how I want it. I will be working on the page content throughout the month, then previewing it on free webspace to check that everything works and get feedback/suggestions on the content. Thanks to all for the help and input! Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1317_1141838621_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html><body> <DIV>Hi, all!</DIV> <DIV>I'm hoping over the next few weeks, when I can grab a spare moment, to run some ideas by the group regarding things that I want to do once we have our new website. I appreciate any suggestions, additions, or concerns that you all might have. If you're not comfortable posting to the list as a whole, I can always be reached at <A href="mailto:DawnFelagund@comcast.net">DawnFelagund@comcast.net</A> or DawnFelagund on YIM.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the things I would like to do is to have a Reference section. And within this Reference section, I would like to have a directory of groups related to The Sil (or Tolkien in general, including The Sil). This way, writers can find archives/references/groups that suit their needs and groups can reach members who share their interests. I know from experience that it can be frustrating--as a member--to find a place to meet your needs and frustrating also as a moderator to meet an audience that might be interested in your group. As far as I know--and correct me if I'm wrong--no such animal yet exists.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I've been pondering this the past few weeks and writing notes to myself, and here is what I have so far. I would like to organize the directory alphabetically by name *and* by category, kind of like the Yellow Pages. So a slash writer interested in finding slash archives could search "Archives" or "Slash" and hopefully--between the two--meet her needs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here are the categories I have come up with so far. Please let me know if you think of anything to add. Of course, we can continue to add categories once the site is running, but I would like to have as many options for owners/mods to choose from as possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Archive (example: OSA, HASA, SoA)</DIV> <DIV>-Canon reference (example: Encyclopedia of Arda)</DIV> <DIV>-Language/naming (example: Ardalambion)</DIV> <DIV>-Character fan listing (example: the Feanor fanlisting)</DIV> <DIV>-Character community (example: House of Feanor)</DIV> <DIV>-Discussion group/forum (example: Silmfic, Henneth-Annun, or our Yahoo! group)</DIV> <DIV>-Slash (example: Library of Moria, Of Elves and Men)</DIV> <DIV>-Het (example: OSA)</DIV> <DIV>-Adult (example: adult ff.net)</DIV> <DIV>-Family-friendly (example: Stories of Arda)</DIV> <DIV>-RPG </DIV> <DIV>-LJ community (example: house_of_feanor, silwritersguild)</DIV> <DIV>-Other journal communities?--I only belong to LJ, so I don't know how other journal services like Greatest Journal, MySpace, etc work. Do they also have communities?</DIV> <DIV>-"Mary Sue" *</DIV> <DIV>-Crossover</DIV> <DIV>-AU</DIV> <DIV>-Elf-centric (example: Elf Fetish)</DIV> <DIV>-Men-centric</DIV> <DIV>-Art gallery (example: tolkienfanart.com, Elfwood)</DIV> <DIV>-Writers' workshop (example: There 'n' Back)</DIV> <DIV>-Writers' resource/reference (example: online dictionaries/thesauri, grammar guides)</DIV> <DIV>-Humor</DIV> <DIV>-Drabbles</DIV> <DIV>-Poetry</DIV> <DIV>-Challenges (example: Tolkien Weekly)</DIV> <DIV>-General Tolkien (example: theonering.net)</DIV> <DIV>-Reading groups</DIV> <DIV>-Awards (example: the Mithril Awards, the Galvorn Awards)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*I hate to call this category "Mary Sue" because I find it a mostly empty and insulting label. However, I know that some "Mary Sue" writers proudly label themselves as such. I'd like to include a category for such groups and archives, but I'm at a loss of what to call it, as I don't want to insult anyone's choice of topic or genre. Any suggestions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In general news, as many of you know, I have the layout of our site just about how I want it. I will be working on the page content throughout the month, then previewing it on free webspace to check that everything works and get feedback/suggestions on the content.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks to all for the help and input!</DIV> <DIV>Dawn Felagund</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV></body></html> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1317_1141838621_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 420 Return-Path: <elennf569@rogers.com> X-Sender: elennf569@rogers.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94504 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 17:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 17:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web88111.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.232) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 17:44:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 99707 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2006 17:44:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20060308174429.99705.qmail@web88111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.30.217.51] by web88111.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:44:29 EST Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:44:29 -0500 (EST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <030820061723.1317.440F131C000A40DD0000052522070216330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-599653879-1141839869=:96749" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: ED LENNOX <elennf569@rogers.com> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion Group Directory X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226967330; y=hzNofPJ_xb0GU-pkEcz2VfUtAdMxqZVOHVlRNjkqzAJ0xkh2kT3gxSAx1M69F6I X-Yahoo-Profile: tenehil --0-599653879-1141839869=:96749 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Dawn! All of the categories look good to me and I like the idea of having a Reference section. I really cannot think of anything to add, as you seem to have everything covered. I am sure someone else will come up with a great idea. I just wanted to check in and give you my . DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: Hi, all! I'm hoping over the next few weeks, when I can grab a spare moment, to run some ideas by the group regarding things that I want to do once we have our new website. I appreciate any suggestions, additions, or concerns that you all might have. If you're not comfortable posting to the list as a whole, I can always be reached at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or DawnFelagund on YIM. One of the things I would like to do is to have a Reference section. And within this Reference section, I would like to have a directory of groups related to The Sil (or Tolkien in general, including The Sil). This way, writers can find archives/references/groups that suit their needs and groups can reach members who share their interests. I know from experience that it can be frustrating--as a member--to find a place to meet your needs and frustrating also as a moderator to meet an audience that might be interested in your group. As far as I know--and correct me if I'm wrong--no such animal yet exists. Anyway, I've been pondering this the past few weeks and writing notes to myself, and here is what I have so far. I would like to organize the directory alphabetically by name *and* by category, kind of like the Yellow Pages. So a slash writer interested in finding slash archives could search "Archives" or "Slash" and hopefully--between the two--meet her needs. Here are the categories I have come up with so far. Please let me know if you think of anything to add. Of course, we can continue to add categories once the site is running, but I would like to have as many options for owners/mods to choose from as possible. -Archive (example: OSA, HASA, SoA) -Canon reference (example: Encyclopedia of Arda) -Language/naming (example: Ardalambion) -Character fan listing (example: the Feanor fanlisting) -Character community (example: House of Feanor) -Discussion group/forum (example: Silmfic, Henneth-Annun, or our Yahoo! group) -Slash (example: Library of Moria, Of Elves and Men) -Het (example: OSA) -Adult (example: adult ff.net) -Family-friendly (example: Stories of Arda) -RPG -LJ community (example: house_of_feanor, silwritersguild) -Other journal communities?--I only belong to LJ, so I don't know how other journal services like Greatest Journal, MySpace, etc work. Do they also have communities? -"Mary Sue" * -Crossover -AU -Elf-centric (example: Elf Fetish) -Men-centric -Art gallery (example: tolkienfanart.com, Elfwood) -Writers' workshop (example: There 'n' Back) -Writers' resource/reference (example: online dictionaries/thesauri, grammar guides) -Humor -Drabbles -Poetry -Challenges (example: Tolkien Weekly) -General Tolkien (example: theonering.net) -Reading groups -Awards (example: the Mithril Awards, the Galvorn Awards) *I hate to call this category "Mary Sue" because I find it a mostly empty and insulting label. However, I know that some "Mary Sue" writers proudly label themselves as such. I'd like to include a category for such groups and archives, but I'm at a loss of what to call it, as I don't want to insult anyone's choice of topic or genre. Any suggestions? In general news, as many of you know, I have the layout of our site just about how I want it. I will be working on the page content throughout the month, then previewing it on free webspace to check that everything works and get feedback/suggestions on the content. Thanks to all for the help and input! Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative writing program Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and fantasy --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Jenni/digdigil "And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-599653879-1141839869=:96749 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <div>Hi, Dawn!</div> <div> </div> <div>All of the categories look good to me and I like the idea of having a Reference section.  I really cannot think of anything to add, as you seem to have everything covered.  I am sure someone else will come up with a great idea.  I just wanted to check in and give you my .<BR><BR><B><I>DawnFelagund@comcast.net</I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <DIV>Hi, all!</DIV> <DIV>I'm hoping over the next few weeks, when I can grab a spare moment, to run some ideas by the group regarding things that I want to do once we have our new website. I appreciate any suggestions, additions, or concerns that you all might have. If you're not comfortable posting to the list as a whole, I can always be reached at <A href="mailto:DawnFelagund@comcast.net">DawnFelagund@comcast.net</A> or DawnFelagund on YIM.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the things I would like to do is to have a Reference section. And within this Reference section, I would like to have a directory of groups related to The Sil (or Tolkien in general, including The Sil). This way, writers can find archives/references/groups that suit their needs and groups can reach members who share their interests. I know from experience that it can be frustrating--as a member--to find a place to meet your needs and frustrating also as a moderator to meet an audience that might be interested in your group. As far as I know--and correct me if I'm wrong--no such animal yet exists.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I've been pondering this the past few weeks and writing notes to myself, and here is what I have so far. I would like to organize the directory alphabetically by name *and* by category, kind of like the Yellow Pages. So a slash writer interested in finding slash archives could search "Archives" or "Slash" and hopefully--between the two--meet her needs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here are the categories I have come up with so far. Please let me know if you think of anything to add. Of course, we can continue to add categories once the site is running, but I would like to have as many options for owners/mods to choose from as possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Archive (example: OSA, HASA, SoA)</DIV> <DIV>-Canon reference (example: Encyclopedia of Arda)</DIV> <DIV>-Language/naming (example: Ardalambion)</DIV> <DIV>-Character fan listing (example: the Feanor fanlisting)</DIV> <DIV>-Character community (example: House of Feanor)</DIV> <DIV>-Discussion group/forum (example: Silmfic, Henneth-Annun, or our Yahoo! group)</DIV> <DIV>-Slash (example: Library of Moria, Of Elves and Men)</DIV> <DIV>-Het (example: OSA)</DIV> <DIV>-Adult (example: adult ff.net)</DIV> <DIV>-Family-friendly (example: Stories of Arda)</DIV> <DIV>-RPG </DIV> <DIV>-LJ community (example: house_of_feanor, silwritersguild)</DIV> <DIV>-Other journal communities?--I only belong to LJ, so I don't know how other journal services like Greatest Journal, MySpace, etc work. Do they also have communities?</DIV> <DIV>-"Mary Sue" *</DIV> <DIV>-Crossover</DIV> <DIV>-AU</DIV> <DIV>-Elf-centric (example: Elf Fetish)</DIV> <DIV>-Men-centric</DIV> <DIV>-Art gallery (example: tolkienfanart.com, Elfwood)</DIV> <DIV>-Writers' workshop (example: There 'n' Back)</DIV> <DIV>-Writers' resource/reference (example: online dictionaries/thesauri, grammar guides)</DIV> <DIV>-Humor</DIV> <DIV>-Drabbles</DIV> <DIV>-Poetry</DIV> <DIV>-Challenges (example: Tolkien Weekly)</DIV> <DIV>-General Tolkien (example: theonering.net)</DIV> <DIV>-Reading groups</DIV> <DIV>-Awards (example: the Mithril Awards, the Galvorn Awards)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*I hate to call this category "Mary Sue" because I find it a mostly empty and insulting label. However, I know that some "Mary Sue" writers proudly label themselves as such. I'd like to include a category for such groups and archives, but I'm at a loss of what to call it, as I don't want to insult anyone's choice of topic or genre. Any suggestions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In general news, as many of you know, I have the layout of our site just about how I want it. I will be working on the page content throughout the month, then previewing it on free webspace to check that everything works and get feedback/suggestions on the content.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks to all for the help and input!</DIV> <DIV>Dawn Felagund</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Jenni/digdigil<br><br>"And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-599653879-1141839869=:96749-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 421 Return-Path: <elennf569@rogers.com> X-Sender: elennf569@rogers.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23341 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 17:48:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 17:48:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web88108.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.209) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 17:48:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 95721 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2006 17:44:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20060308174423.95719.qmail@web88108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.30.217.51] by web88108.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:44:23 EST Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:44:23 -0500 (EST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <030820061723.1317.440F131C000A40DD0000052522070216330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1097870904-1141839863=:87416" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: ED LENNOX <elennf569@rogers.com> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion Group Directory X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226967330; y=Xx-qObcw9inXL_yhpESBwD7I5xoPq329TO6NQIcg5eBezDw2hO6E5t8tenjbTJg X-Yahoo-Profile: tenehil --0-1097870904-1141839863=:87416 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Dawn! All of the categories look good to me and I like the idea of having a Reference section. I really cannot think of anything to add, as you seem to have everything covered. I am sure someone else will come up with a great idea. I just wanted to check in . DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: Hi, all! I'm hoping over the next few weeks, when I can grab a spare moment, to run some ideas by the group regarding things that I want to do once we have our new website. I appreciate any suggestions, additions, or concerns that you all might have. If you're not comfortable posting to the list as a whole, I can always be reached at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or DawnFelagund on YIM. One of the things I would like to do is to have a Reference section. And within this Reference section, I would like to have a directory of groups related to The Sil (or Tolkien in general, including The Sil). This way, writers can find archives/references/groups that suit their needs and groups can reach members who share their interests. I know from experience that it can be frustrating--as a member--to find a place to meet your needs and frustrating also as a moderator to meet an audience that might be interested in your group. As far as I know--and correct me if I'm wrong--no such animal yet exists. Anyway, I've been pondering this the past few weeks and writing notes to myself, and here is what I have so far. I would like to organize the directory alphabetically by name *and* by category, kind of like the Yellow Pages. So a slash writer interested in finding slash archives could search "Archives" or "Slash" and hopefully--between the two--meet her needs. Here are the categories I have come up with so far. Please let me know if you think of anything to add. Of course, we can continue to add categories once the site is running, but I would like to have as many options for owners/mods to choose from as possible. -Archive (example: OSA, HASA, SoA) -Canon reference (example: Encyclopedia of Arda) -Language/naming (example: Ardalambion) -Character fan listing (example: the Feanor fanlisting) -Character community (example: House of Feanor) -Discussion group/forum (example: Silmfic, Henneth-Annun, or our Yahoo! group) -Slash (example: Library of Moria, Of Elves and Men) -Het (example: OSA) -Adult (example: adult ff.net) -Family-friendly (example: Stories of Arda) -RPG -LJ community (example: house_of_feanor, silwritersguild) -Other journal communities?--I only belong to LJ, so I don't know how other journal services like Greatest Journal, MySpace, etc work. Do they also have communities? -"Mary Sue" * -Crossover -AU -Elf-centric (example: Elf Fetish) -Men-centric -Art gallery (example: tolkienfanart.com, Elfwood) -Writers' workshop (example: There 'n' Back) -Writers' resource/reference (example: online dictionaries/thesauri, grammar guides) -Humor -Drabbles -Poetry -Challenges (example: Tolkien Weekly) -General Tolkien (example: theonering.net) -Reading groups -Awards (example: the Mithril Awards, the Galvorn Awards) *I hate to call this category "Mary Sue" because I find it a mostly empty and insulting label. However, I know that some "Mary Sue" writers proudly label themselves as such. I'd like to include a category for such groups and archives, but I'm at a loss of what to call it, as I don't want to insult anyone's choice of topic or genre. Any suggestions? In general news, as many of you know, I have the layout of our site just about how I want it. I will be working on the page content throughout the month, then previewing it on free webspace to check that everything works and get feedback/suggestions on the content. Thanks to all for the help and input! Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative writing program Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and fantasy --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Jenni/digdigil "And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-1097870904-1141839863=:87416 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <div>Hi, Dawn!</div> <div> </div> <div>All of the categories look good to me and I like the idea of having a Reference section.  I really cannot think of anything to add, as you seem to have everything covered.  I am sure someone else will come up with a great idea.  I just wanted to check in .<BR><BR><B><I>DawnFelagund@comcast.net</I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <DIV>Hi, all!</DIV> <DIV>I'm hoping over the next few weeks, when I can grab a spare moment, to run some ideas by the group regarding things that I want to do once we have our new website. I appreciate any suggestions, additions, or concerns that you all might have. If you're not comfortable posting to the list as a whole, I can always be reached at <A href="mailto:DawnFelagund@comcast.net">DawnFelagund@comcast.net</A> or DawnFelagund on YIM.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the things I would like to do is to have a Reference section. And within this Reference section, I would like to have a directory of groups related to The Sil (or Tolkien in general, including The Sil). This way, writers can find archives/references/groups that suit their needs and groups can reach members who share their interests. I know from experience that it can be frustrating--as a member--to find a place to meet your needs and frustrating also as a moderator to meet an audience that might be interested in your group. As far as I know--and correct me if I'm wrong--no such animal yet exists.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I've been pondering this the past few weeks and writing notes to myself, and here is what I have so far. I would like to organize the directory alphabetically by name *and* by category, kind of like the Yellow Pages. So a slash writer interested in finding slash archives could search "Archives" or "Slash" and hopefully--between the two--meet her needs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here are the categories I have come up with so far. Please let me know if you think of anything to add. Of course, we can continue to add categories once the site is running, but I would like to have as many options for owners/mods to choose from as possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Archive (example: OSA, HASA, SoA)</DIV> <DIV>-Canon reference (example: Encyclopedia of Arda)</DIV> <DIV>-Language/naming (example: Ardalambion)</DIV> <DIV>-Character fan listing (example: the Feanor fanlisting)</DIV> <DIV>-Character community (example: House of Feanor)</DIV> <DIV>-Discussion group/forum (example: Silmfic, Henneth-Annun, or our Yahoo! group)</DIV> <DIV>-Slash (example: Library of Moria, Of Elves and Men)</DIV> <DIV>-Het (example: OSA)</DIV> <DIV>-Adult (example: adult ff.net)</DIV> <DIV>-Family-friendly (example: Stories of Arda)</DIV> <DIV>-RPG </DIV> <DIV>-LJ community (example: house_of_feanor, silwritersguild)</DIV> <DIV>-Other journal communities?--I only belong to LJ, so I don't know how other journal services like Greatest Journal, MySpace, etc work. Do they also have communities?</DIV> <DIV>-"Mary Sue" *</DIV> <DIV>-Crossover</DIV> <DIV>-AU</DIV> <DIV>-Elf-centric (example: Elf Fetish)</DIV> <DIV>-Men-centric</DIV> <DIV>-Art gallery (example: tolkienfanart.com, Elfwood)</DIV> <DIV>-Writers' workshop (example: There 'n' Back)</DIV> <DIV>-Writers' resource/reference (example: online dictionaries/thesauri, grammar guides)</DIV> <DIV>-Humor</DIV> <DIV>-Drabbles</DIV> <DIV>-Poetry</DIV> <DIV>-Challenges (example: Tolkien Weekly)</DIV> <DIV>-General Tolkien (example: theonering.net)</DIV> <DIV>-Reading groups</DIV> <DIV>-Awards (example: the Mithril Awards, the Galvorn Awards)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*I hate to call this category "Mary Sue" because I find it a mostly empty and insulting label. However, I know that some "Mary Sue" writers proudly label themselves as such. I'd like to include a category for such groups and archives, but I'm at a loss of what to call it, as I don't want to insult anyone's choice of topic or genre. Any suggestions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In general news, as many of you know, I have the layout of our site just about how I want it. I will be working on the page content throughout the month, then previewing it on free webspace to check that everything works and get feedback/suggestions on the content.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks to all for the help and input!</DIV> <DIV>Dawn Felagund</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Jenni/digdigil<br><br>"And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-1097870904-1141839863=:87416-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 422 Return-Path: <spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com> X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19211 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 18:01:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 18:01:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52508.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.191) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 18:01:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 9001 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2006 18:01:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20060308180101.8999.qmail@web52508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.242.130.18] by web52508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:01:01 PST Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:01:01 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <030820061723.1317.440F131C000A40DD0000052522070216330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Viv <spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion Group Directory X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=dYDyi-SmwI1_1lR6zudbp9Ov57haYsAHWngMjV0IFAmTo5JViwASGsf1n4Xw X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess Groovy! Like a fanfic dating service! For the Mary Sue category, how about OFC, or even OC? "Original character" seems a non-insulting way of describing not only Mary Sues but also characters that people don't want to admit are Mary Sues. ;) viv --- DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: > *I hate to call this category "Mary Sue" because I > find it a mostly empty and insulting label. However, > I know that some "Mary Sue" writers proudly label > themselves as such. I'd like to include a category > for such groups and archives, but I'm at a loss of > what to call it, as I don't want to insult anyone's > choice of topic or genre. Any suggestions? http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 423 Return-Path: <samthase@aon.at> X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64561 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 18:35:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 18:35:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.90) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 18:35:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 17036 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 18:35:07 -0000 Received: from m192p004.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.191.228]) (envelope-sender <samthase@aon.at>) by smarthub78.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; 8 Mar 2006 18:35:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <440F2408.00000D.00612@MARINA> Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:35:52 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_SNNT24L0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <20060308180101.8999.qmail@web52508.mail.yahoo.com> To: <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 From: "MARINA" <samthase@aon.at> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion Group Directory X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=DbW--_Z3Bj3vNFZ_uRQVZA4qBa95HKy3A4NtpVcagD9RoSu-qlXx X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_SNNT24L0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Elvish dating service....that is what I am looking for! :) Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Viv Date: 03/08/06 19:01:20 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion Group Directory =20 Groovy! Like a fanfic dating service! =20 For the Mary Sue category, how about OFC, or even OC? "Original character" seems a non-insulting way of describing not only Mary Sues but also characters that people don't want to admit are Mary Sues. ;) =20 viv =20 --- DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: > *I hate to call this category "Mary Sue" because I > find it a mostly empty and --------------Boundary-00=_SNNT24L0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset= =3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"IncrediMail 1.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> = <BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: 0px 0px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 5px 1= 0px 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D"" scroll=3Dye= s ORGYPOS=3D"0"> <TABLE id=3DINCREDIMAINTABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding= =3D2 width=3D"100%" border=3D0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; CURSOR: auto; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" width=3D"100%"> <D= IV>Elvish dating service....that is what I am looking for! :)</DIV> <DIV>Ma= rina </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=3DIncrediOriginalMessage><I>----= ---Original Message-------</I></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=3Dreceivestr= ings> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>From:</B></I> <A href= =3D"mailto:spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com">Viv</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style= =3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>Date:</B></I> 03/08/06 19:01:20</DIV> <DIV dir= =3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>To:</B></I> <A href=3D"mailto:Silmar= illionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com">SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.co= m</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>Subject:</B></I>= Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion Group Directory</DIV></DIV> <D= IV> </DIV> <DIV>Groovy! Like a fanfic dating service!</DIV> <DIV> = ;</DIV> <DIV>For the Mary Sue category, how about OFC, or even OC?</DIV> <D= IV>"Original character" seems a non-insulting way of</DIV> <DIV>describing = not only Mary Sues but also characters that</DIV> <DIV>people don't want to= admit are Mary Sues. ;)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>viv</DIV> <DIV> = </DIV> <DIV>--- <A href=3D"mailto:DawnFelagund@comcast.net">DawnFelagund@co= mcast.net</A> wrote:</DIV> <DIV>> *I hate to call this category "Mary Su= e" because I</DIV> <DIV>> find it a mostly empty and </DIV></TD></TR> <T= R> <TD id=3DINCREDIFOOTER width=3D"100%"> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPaddin= g=3D0 width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD width=3D"100%"></TD> <TD id=3DINCRED= ISOUND vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dmiddle></TD> <TD id=3DINCREDIANIM vAlign=3Db= ottom align=3Dmiddle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><S= PAN id=3DIncrediStamp><SPAN dir=3Dltr><A href=3D"http://www.incredimail.com= /index.asp?id=3D96917"><IMG alt=3D"Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!" hsp= ace=3D0 src=3D"http://www2.incredimail.com/contents/stamps/imstp_heads_en.g= if" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></A></SPAN></SPAN></BODY></HTML> --------------Boundary-00=_SNNT24L0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 424 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32496 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 19:59:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2006 19:59:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.200.82) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 19:59:51 -0000 Received: from smailcenter73.comcast.net ([204.127.205.173]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006030819223101200c5oo6e>; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:22:31 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter73.comcast.net; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:22:31 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:22:31 +0000 Message-Id: <030820061922.24926.440F2EF60008AC150000615E22070216330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24926_1141845751_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion Group Directory X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=5bcaThDXLEMHznJmalMIfBCTFucOJ_38lOwYIf2AiJ0EbCdevkPg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24926_1141845751_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Viv wrote: > For the Mary Sue category, how about OFC, or even OC? Good idea. :) And "OC" covers those infamous Gary Stus too, I guess. ;) (the politically correct) Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24926_1141845751_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html><body> <DIV>Viv wrote:</DIV> <DIV>> <FONT face="Courier New">For the Mary Sue category, how about OFC, or even OC?</FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV>Good idea. :) And "OC" covers those infamous Gary Stus too, I guess. ;)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(the politically correct) Dawn Felagund</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV></body></html> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24926_1141845751_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 425 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19190 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 18:37:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2006 18:37:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 18:37:35 -0000 Received: from smailcenter67.comcast.net ([204.127.205.167]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060316173949012007rn3de>; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:39:49 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter67.comcast.net; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:39:48 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:39:48 +0000 Message-Id: <031620061739.20309.4419A2E40002EDCB00004F5522070215730B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20309_1142530788_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Workshop Challenges X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=qVSSc6D8dAUzERBaiz-g_XI7JzK7AHJFI3ETuihOGAXgi6xsXv7q X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20309_1142530788_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, all! When I started this group, I started it as a "writer's workshop for Silmarillion writers." Over time, however, it became pretty clear that most of us were more interested in a place to share our stories, get general feedback, and ask questions, and I was more than fine with that. I know that time is in short supply, and to do an in-depth "workshop" of a story every few weeks is probably more than most of us can spare. (Myself included...I look at my reading list alone and shudder...but those of you whom I need to read your stories, I have not forgotten!) However, I still persist in my hope that this group can also be a place for new and experienced writers alike to hone their craft, even if my original idea for the workshop is clearly something that will not work at the moment. Chatting with Jenni (Digdigil) today about a writing exercise she'd done, she expressed the wish that there be a workshop where writers could practice those sorts of exercises. I had been tossing the idea around in my cluttered skull for some time about introducing a workshop component to SWG, to provide monthly (or more frequent) "exercises" alongside our normal challenges, only less with the intent to inspire stories and more with the hope of practicing an aspect of the writing craft. Of course, participation would always remain voluntary, and workshop participants could do whichever exercises they feel would help them the most, whether it is one or all. And in contrast to challenge entries--which are often full stories or multi-chapter works--workshop exercises are much shorter, less ambitious undertakings, even just a few passages. The intent is to practice a skill more so than to complete an entire story. (Although this is acceptable too, as is applying exercises to existed works.) I'm hoping, once the site is built, that we can have a special section just for this, so that our workshop exercises need not be lumped in with--and subjected to the same scrutinty as--full, proofread stories. So what are your thoughts on this? This is a really rough idea that hasn't had much thought given to the specifics of how it would work. And would anyone be interested in helping me to devise workshop exercises? This is one area where I think a wider range of experience and writing styles is definitely beneficial to participants. I look forward to hearing people's opinions on this. Until then, best wishes to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20309_1142530788_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html><body> <DIV>Hi, all!</DIV> <DIV>When I started this group, I started it as a "writer's workshop for Silmarillion writers." Over time, however, it became pretty clear that most of us were more interested in a place to share our stories, get general feedback, and ask questions, and I was more than fine with that. I know that time is in short supply, and to do an in-depth "workshop" of a story every few weeks is probably more than most of us can spare. (Myself included...I look at my reading list alone and shudder...but those of you whom I need to read your stories, I have not forgotten!)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, I still persist in my hope that this group can also be a place for new and experienced writers alike to hone their craft, even if my original idea for the workshop is clearly something that will not work at the moment. Chatting with Jenni (Digdigil) today about a writing exercise she'd done, she expressed the wish that there be a workshop where writers could practice those sorts of exercises. I had been tossing the idea around in my cluttered skull for some time about introducing a workshop component to SWG, to provide monthly (or more frequent) "exercises" alongside our normal challenges, only less with the intent to inspire stories and more with the hope of practicing an aspect of the writing craft.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course, participation would always remain voluntary, and workshop participants could do whichever exercises they feel would help them the most, whether it is one or all. And in contrast to challenge entries--which are often full stories or multi-chapter works--workshop exercises are much shorter, less ambitious undertakings, even just a few passages. The intent is to practice a skill more so than to complete an entire story. (Although this is acceptable too, as is applying exercises to existed works.) I'm hoping, once the site is built, that we can have a special section just for this, so that our workshop exercises need not be lumped in with--and subjected to the same scrutinty as--full, proofread stories.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what are your thoughts on this? This is a really rough idea that hasn't had much thought given to the specifics of how it would work. And would anyone be interested in helping me to devise workshop exercises? This is one area where I think a wider range of experience and writing styles is definitely beneficial to participants.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I look forward to hearing people's opinions on this. Until then, best wishes to all,</DIV> <DIV>Dawn Felagund</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV></body></html> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20309_1142530788_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 426 Return-Path: <samthase@aon.at> X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46754 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 20:18:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2006 20:18:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.90) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 20:18:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 4813 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 20:18:43 -0000 Received: from m169p008.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.189.8]) (envelope-sender <samthase@aon.at>) by smarthub78.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; 16 Mar 2006 20:18:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <4419C854.000001.04004@MARINA> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:19:32 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_KSL8QL80000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <031620061739.20309.4419A2E40002EDCB00004F5522070215730B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" <samthase@aon.at> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Workshop Challenges X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=KPGxOMWKzSnAZ_z-rI6OKXNMrj2Vy_c-Tfwl5tkIf34okwZEQ3Bg X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_KSL8QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This indeed sounds very interesting. I could even see something like a grou= pstory.... What exactly do you have in mind for the workshop? Marina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 03/16/06 19:37:42 To: SWG Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Workshop Challenges =20 Hi, all! When I started this group, I started it as a "writer's workshop for Silmar= illion writers." Over time, however, it became pretty clear that most of us= were more interested in a place to share our stories, get general feedback= , and ask questions, and I was more than fine with that. I know that time i= s in short supply, and to do an in-depth "workshop" of a story every few we= eks is probably more than most of us can spare. (Myself included...I look a= t my reading list alone and shudder...but those of you whom I need to read = your stories, I have not forgotten!) --------------Boundary-00=_KSL8QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset= =3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"IncrediMail 1.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> = <BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: 0px 0px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 5px 1= 0px 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D"" scroll=3Dye= s ORGYPOS=3D"0"> <TABLE id=3DINCREDIMAINTABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding= =3D2 width=3D"100%" border=3D0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; CURSOR: auto; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" width=3D"100%"> <D= IV>This indeed sounds very interesting. I could even see something like a&n= bsp;groupstory....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What exactly do you have in= mind for the workshop?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Marina</DIV> <DIV>&nbs= p;</DIV> <DIV id=3DIncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------= </I></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=3Dreceivestrings> <DIV dir=3Dltr style= =3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>From:</B></I> <A href=3D"mailto:DawnFelagund@com= cast.net">DawnFelagund@comcast.net</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-S= IZE: 11pt"><I><B>Date:</B></I> 03/16/06 19:37:42</DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style= =3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>To:</B></I> <A href=3D"mailto:SilmarillionWriter= sGuild@yahoogroups.com">SWG</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11= pt"><I><B>Subject:</B></I> [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Workshop Challenges</= DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hi, all!</DIV> <DIV>When I started this g= roup, I started it as a "writer's workshop for Silmarillion writers." Over = time, however, it became pretty clear that most of us were more interested = in a place to share our stories, get general feedback, and ask questions, a= nd I was more than fine with that. I know that time is in short supply, and= to do an in-depth "workshop" of a story every few weeks is probably more t= han most of us can spare. (Myself included...I look at my reading list alon= e and shudder...but those of you whom I need to read your stories, I have n= ot forgotten!)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></TD></TR> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDIFOOTE= R width=3D"100%"> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"> <T= BODY> <TR> <TD width=3D"100%"></TD> <TD id=3DINCREDISOUND vAlign=3Dbottom a= lign=3Dmiddle></TD> <TD id=3DINCREDIANIM vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dmiddle></T= D></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><SPAN id=3DIncrediStamp><S= PAN dir=3Dltr><A href=3D"http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=3D96917"><= IMG alt=3D"Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!" hspace=3D0 src=3D"http://ww= w2.incredimail.com/contents/stamps/imstp_heads_en.gif" align=3Dbaseline bor= der=3D0></A></SPAN></SPAN></BODY></HTML> --------------Boundary-00=_KSL8QL80000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 427 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24566 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 21:34:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2006 21:34:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.200.81) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 21:34:17 -0000 Received: from smailcenter70.comcast.net ([204.127.205.170]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060316211319011002vuhse>; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:13:19 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter70.comcast.net; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:13:18 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:13:18 +0000 Message-Id: <031620062113.20581.4419D4EE000891700000506522007343640B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20581_1142543598_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Workshop Challenges X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=yzKRsuUqave0Uvj9BGpSCl4Pd4mHLRuSHvEEGJfzhbYyHM_dYDUo X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20581_1142543598_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Marina wrote: > What exactly do you have in mind for the workshop? It's exercises for people who want to work on certain aspects of their writing. For example, the exercise that inspired this idea asked writers to take a drabble and remove all adjectives and adverbs, replacing them with metaphor and action instead to describe the scene. Other exercises might work on characterization, point of view, setting, mood...the possibilities go on and on. :) One of our list members, JunoMagic, also co-mods a writers' workshop for Tolkien authors called "There and Back Again" on LiveJournal (among other places!), and TnB is a good place to look for an example of workshop exercises: http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/tag/exercises+and+explanations Exercises are more focused on working on a particular skill than coming out with a complete story, and concrit focuses more on that skill as well. So a characterization workshop might ask you to write a physical description of a character. While you could later include this in a story, it likely wouldn't stand as a story of its own. Nor would it be acceptable for me--in providing you with feedback--to criticize your use of canon or setting, since it is a characterization exercise. I hope this helps a bit! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20581_1142543598_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html><body> <DIV>Marina wrote:</DIV> <DIV>> What exactly do you have in mind for the workshop?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's exercises for people who want to work on certain aspects of their writing. For example, the exercise that inspired this idea asked writers to take a drabble and remove all adjectives and adverbs, replacing them with metaphor and action instead to describe the scene. Other exercises might work on characterization, point of view, setting, mood...the possibilities go on and on. :)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of our list members, JunoMagic, also co-mods a writers' workshop for Tolkien authors called "There and Back Again" on LiveJournal (among other places!), and TnB is a good place to look for an example of workshop exercises: <A href="http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/tag/exercises+and+explanations">http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/tag/exercises+and+explanations</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Exercises are more focused on working on a particular skill than coming out with a complete story, and concrit focuses more on that skill as well. So a characterization workshop might ask you to write a physical description of a character. While you could later include this in a story, it likely wouldn't stand as a story of its own. Nor would it be acceptable for me--in providing you with feedback--to criticize your use of canon or setting, since it is a characterization exercise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope this helps a bit!</DIV> <DIV>Dawn</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>~oOo~ <BR>Dawn Felagund <BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund <BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. <BR>~oOo~</DIV></body></html> --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20581_1142543598_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 428 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86605 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2006 23:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2006 23:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2006 23:17:17 -0000 Received: from smailcenter44.comcast.net ([204.127.205.144]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060317231717011002pv9ue>; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:17:17 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter44.comcast.net; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:17:16 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:17:16 +0000 Message-Id: <031720062317.27178.441B437C0002C7C800006A2A22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: "F?anorian" versus "F?anorion" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=n4VEk-c2yBzWBtGcdRyBkO0yTnck702ZXM2DMsUj88NEJ5w-cqNj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all! It has come to my attention that I don't know the actual, technical, canonically correct use of "F�anorian" versus "F�anorion." Now, I've always used "F�anorion" only when referring specifically to the sons of F�anor, since the word literally means "son of F�anor." So if I'm talking about the sons of F�anor getting together to plan a soiree for dear ol' dad, I might write, "The F�anorions gathered to talk about their plans for F�anor's begetting day party." For "F�anorian," I've always taken it to mean something belonging to or associated with F�anor. I have no backing for this--being weak in Elvish--except that "F�anorian lamps" are credited to him. So I tend to refer to his family at large--including Nerdanel and his daughters-in-law--as F�anorians, as well as his followers. Is this correct or am I a victim of fanon? ;) Have a nice weekend, everyone! Dawn Felagund the Hopeless -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 429 Return-Path: <sirielle@tlen.pl> X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8238 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2006 00:15:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2006 00:15:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2006 00:15:44 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD821376B5 for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 01:15:43 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 01:15:43 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <9310316324.20060318011543@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> In-Reply-To: <031720062317.27178.441B437C0002C7C800006A2A22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <031720062317.27178.441B437C0002C7C800006A2A22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> Reply-To: Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> Subject: =?Windows-1250?Q?Re=3A_=5BSilmarillionWritersGuild=5D_=22F=EBanorian=22?= =?Windows-1250?Q?_versus_=22F=EBanorion=22?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=aUawmxPQU-y6VoJlZ5tqVkyMWQjN9pYPYw1HFpXNG0LtW4dKjL0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Hi! Dcn> Now, I've always used "F�anorion" only when referring specifically to the sons of F�anor, Dcn> since the word literally means "son of F�anor." So if I'm talking about the sons of F�anor Dcn> getting together to plan a soiree for dear ol' dad, I might write, "The F�anorions I am not an expert nor in English (LOL - me expert), nor in Quenya or Sindarin, but it sounds correct to my ear. Probably you could use here elven plural form either, since the word is elvish itself. That might be Feanorioni in Quenya (probably, if it's created the same as Elendili and Silamrili). But better if any Noldorin loremaster answers this question ;) Dcn> For "F�anorian," I've always taken it to mean something belonging to or associated with F�anor. I use it to the whole House of F�anor, as the followers of F�anor or his family. Mainly because I saw others doing that. I wonder if it's correct? And that would be in English not Elvish. Jenny Dolfen used also 'Feanoreans' in image's title - 'Feanoreans - family picture'. BTW, spam washer in my mail server washed some mails from the group before I noticed that. *sigh* Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 430 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28932 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2006 03:54:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2006 03:54:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (204.127.200.83) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2006 03:54:12 -0000 Received: from smailcenter61.comcast.net ([204.127.205.161]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2006031802544601300ebvuee>; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 02:54:46 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter61.comcast.net; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 02:54:45 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 02:54:45 +0000 Message-Id: <031820060254.24490.441B7675000CD0FB00005FAA22058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] "F?anorian" versus "F?anorion" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=-rGj9HGtxtVVSdy9LDhbrfmf8VtUQRqGDUhG2o3e6rlf-szmOQxX X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Thanks, Sirielle! I had forgotten about "F�anorean." *sigh* I really wish I had time for learning more about Elvish languages. Alas.... *eyes to-do list five miles long* I've seen "F�anorian" too in lots of fanfics...which is why I worry that I might be susceptible to fanon. > BTW, spam washer in my mail server washed some mails from the group before I > noticed that. *sigh* Oh, boo. Comcast seems rather lax in this...along with customer service. ;) Take care and have a nice weekend! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 431 Return-Path: <sirielle@tlen.pl> X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5733 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2006 15:22:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2006 15:22:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2006 15:22:17 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7A37480CE for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:21:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:21:35 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <269382070.20060318162135@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> In-Reply-To: <031820060254.24490.441B7675000CD0FB00005FAA22058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <031820060254.24490.441B7675000CD0FB00005FAA22058844840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> Reply-To: Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> Subject: =?Windows-1250?Q?Re=5B2=5D=3A_=5BSilmarillionWritersGuild=5D_=22F=EBano?= =?Windows-1250?Q?rian=22_versus_=22F=EBanorion=22?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=73N7KDOAWCYQ6MdnrDbmDZJs0tn1e45on3VovAjO_h0rQIu4zIg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai DawnFelagund, Dcn> I've seen "F�anorian" too in lots of fanfics...which is why I worry that I might be susceptible Dcn> to fanon. I don't think so, I have taken that not from fan fiction, but from artists inspired by Tolkien, like Peter X. Price for example. We've been even talking about Feanorian vs Feanorean and decided, that Tolkien used the Feanorian form. As Noldorin not Noldorian. This is English, not Elvish, so I guess Peet being Englishman is right ;) Heh, I had to add you to my 'white list' in the spam washer, for it didn't want to let pass dreamcast.com. But I can't add the whole yahoo.com, for a lot of spam is coming from there, too. I just hope it works with the groups name on the list :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 432 Return-Path: <tuxedo.elf02@googlemail.com> X-Sender: tuxedo.elf02@googlemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99224 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2006 15:32:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2006 15:32:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO xproxy.gmail.com) (66.249.82.205) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2006 15:32:46 -0000 Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i28so570458wxd for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:32:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.79.2 with SMTP id c2mr551888wxb; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:32:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.47.3 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:32:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <fb9831d70603180732u400274ecv7fd75804644863b8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:32:45 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <031720062317.27178.441B437C0002C7C800006A2A22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_361_1501327.1142695965120" References: <031720062317.27178.441B437C0002C7C800006A2A22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Tuxedo Elf" <tuxedo.elf02@googlemail.com> Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[SilmarillionWritersGuild]?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_"F=EBanorian"_versus_"F=EBanorion"?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253843753; y=LIR6w4kEJVhm3oAVi4zbon9MTKG7Xhr1kXLEFrnZkp0w88X1sBoQUg X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf ------=_Part_361_1501327.1142695965120-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 433 Return-Path: <elennf569@rogers.com> X-Sender: elennf569@rogers.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13741 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2006 23:55:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2006 23:55:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.206) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2006 23:55:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 37418 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2006 23:55:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20060317235557.37416.qmail@web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.30.217.51] by web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:55:57 EST Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:55:57 -0500 (EST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <031720062317.27178.441B437C0002C7C800006A2A22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1676340400-1142639757=:37071" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: ED LENNOX <elennf569@rogers.com> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] "F�anorian" versus "F�anorion" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226967330; y=DP1SZO6OlZG5vbYVGRStMQrqpqDhLf6hkmuTY_id_szYXXNFc4oMA7yMX8Y0GwA X-Yahoo-Profile: tenehil --0-1676340400-1142639757=:37071 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Dawn, I think you are right. I always call his immediate family "F�anorions". And your explanation of the other use for "F�anorians" makes perfect sense to me. Sorry this was no help at all except just to back you up. Cheers! DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: Hi, all! It has come to my attention that I don't know the actual, technical, canonically correct use of "F�anorian" versus "F�anorion." Now, I've always used "F�anorion" only when referring specifically to the sons of F�anor, since the word literally means "son of F�anor." So if I'm talking about the sons of F�anor getting together to plan a soiree for dear ol' dad, I might write, "The F�anorions gathered to talk about their plans for F�anor's begetting day party." For "F�anorian," I've always taken it to mean something belonging to or associated with F�anor. I have no backing for this--being weak in Elvish--except that "F�anorian lamps" are credited to him. So I tend to refer to his family at large--including Nerdanel and his daughters-in-law--as F�anorians, as well as his followers. Is this correct or am I a victim of fanon? ;) Have a nice weekend, everyone! Dawn Felagund the Hopeless -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ Yahoo! Groups Links Jenni/digdigil "And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-1676340400-1142639757=:37071 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <div>Hi, Dawn,</div> <div> </div> <div>I think you are right.  I always call his immediate family "F�anorions".  And your explanation of the other use for "F�anorians" makes perfect sense to me.  Sorry this was no help at all except just to back you up.</div> <div> </div> <div>Cheers!<BR><BR><B><I>DawnFelagund@comcast.net</I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Hi, all!<BR>It has come to my attention that I don't know the actual, technical, canonically correct use of "F�anorian" versus "F�anorion."<BR><BR>Now, I've always used "F�anorion" only when referring specifically to the sons of F�anor, since the word literally means "son of F�anor." So if I'm talking about the sons of F�anor getting together to plan a soiree for dear ol' dad, I might write, "The F�anorions gathered to talk about their plans for F�anor's begetting day party."<BR><BR>For "F�anorian," I've always taken it to mean something belonging to or associated with F�anor. I have no backing for this--being weak in Elvish--except that "F�anorian lamps" are credited to him. So I tend to refer to his family at large--including Nerdanel and his daughters-in-law--as F�anorians, as well as his followers.<BR><BR>Is this correct or am I a victim of fanon? ;)<BR><BR>Have a nice weekend, everyone!<BR>Dawn Felagund the Hopeless<BR><BR>--<BR>~oOo~<BR>Dawn Felagund<BR>Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund<BR><BR>Are you a relentless First-Ager? <BR>Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.<BR>~oOo~<BR><BR><BR><BR>Yahoo! Groups Links<BR><BR><*> To visit your group on the web, go to:<BR>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/<BR><BR><*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR><BR><*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:<BR>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Jenni/digdigil<br><br>"And Mandos said to him: In that time take counsel with thyself and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee." --0-1676340400-1142639757=:37071-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 434 Return-Path: <glenceol@bellsouth.net> X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62064 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2006 21:20:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2006 21:20:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2006 21:20:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2006 21:20:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2006 21:20:12 -0000 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:20:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <dvhtic+4kpj@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <031720062317.27178.441B437C0002C7C800006A2A22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" <glenceol@bellsouth.net> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_"F=EBanorian"_versus_"F=EBanorion"?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=AgQugvVlAO3t64wrj3Q9cBr7ZhsOOkelEhwGLKo1BZsOjtWnM_g X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 For whatever it is worth, Encyclopaedia of Arda uses "Feanorian" to refer= to things of Feanor such as his scrip and his lamps. I usually use "Fea= norean" to refer to a fan of Feanor as in this group is full of Feanoreans.= The -ion ending is of course for a son of Feanor as you said. Ellie = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 435 Return-Path: <ladypear@blazemail.com> X-Sender: ladypear@blazemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33164 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2006 23:55:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2006 23:55:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2006 23:55:16 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2006 23:55:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2006 23:55:16 -0000 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:55:15 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <dvi6l3+eb2n@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <031720062317.27178.441B437C0002C7C800006A2A22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Vana Tuivana" <ladypear@blazemail.com> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_"F=EBanorian"_versus_"F=EBanorion"?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253685802; y=DacXlVFJy7hi2YiSwM-6eFg3Inqs95nt-ZmjN6IOBJSb6PLCu6o X-Yahoo-Profile: vanatuivana I studied Quenya semi-seriously, once upon a time... it's tricky, with all = the different endings! > Now, I've always used "F=EBanorion" only when ref= erring specifically to the sons of F=EBanor, since the word literally means= "son of F=EBanor." So if I'm talking about the sons of F=EBanor getting to= gether to plan a soiree for dear ol' dad, I might write, "The F=EBanorions = gathered to talk about their plans for F=EBanor's begetting day party." > = That's definitely how I would use "Feanorion" - in a very specific sense, t= o mean an actual Son of Feanor. It could also very well be used as a patro= nymic in names: Maedhros Feanorion and so on. Note that this is for the u= se of the Sindarin names of Feanor's sons (Maedhros, Maglor, Celegorm, Cara= nthir, Curufin, Amrod, Amras/Amros). If you're using the Quenya names (Mai= timo, Makalaure, Tyelkormo, Karnistir, Curufinwe, Ambarto, Ambarusso), you = should also use the Quenya version of Feanor's name -- "son of Feanaaro" be= comes "Feanaarion" (with the accented "a" in place of the "aa"). > For "F= =EBanorian," I've always taken it to mean something belonging to or associa= ted with F=EBanor. I have no backing for this--being weak in Elvish--except= that "F=EBanorian lamps" are credited to him. So I tend to refer to his fa= mily at large--including Nerdanel and his daughters-in-law--as F=EBanorians= , as well as his followers. > "Feanorian" is an Anglicized word -- we've E= nglished it up, so to speak. You mentioned that Tolkien and/or Christopher= used it, so it's definitely workable in that context: anything commonly a= ssociated with Feanor would work. So in my mind you could talk about the F= eanorians and mean all those who followed Feanor, including his sons. Ther= e has to be a Quenya ending you could actually use to mean the same thing, = but I don't remember which one it is. I'm thinking it's the genitive, "-o"= (plurals "-ron" and "-ion") -- so "Feanaarion Silmarilli" =3D "the Silmari= ls of Feanor"? I'm not a good enough scholar of Quenya to know if that's r= ight or not, but it would be my guess. :-) Cheerfully yours, linguistica= l!Vana From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 436 Return-Path: <sirielle@tlen.pl> X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53715 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 00:41:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 00:41:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 00:41:40 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D06BB1376A5 for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 01:41:39 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 01:41:40 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <507284933.20060319014140@tlen.pl> To: ED LENNOX <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20060317235557.37416.qmail@web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <031720062317.27178.441B437C0002C7C800006A2A22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> <20060317235557.37416.qmail@web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> Reply-To: Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=5B2=5D=3A_=5BSilmarillionWritersGuild=5D_=22F=EBanori?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?an=22_versus_=22F=EBanorion=22?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=bYhh5Qj1S9WcGfEZeOF5gn8tS-ow53_rgt7srYeKmRcksvopaT0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai ED, Saturday, March 18, 2006, 12:55:57 AM, you wrote: EL> Hi, Dawn, EL> � EL> I think you are right.��I always call his immediate family "F�anorions".� Hmmm, it would apply only to his sons, as that;s the meaning ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 437 Return-Path: <glenceol@bellsouth.net> X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85187 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 16:10:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 16:10:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.175) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 16:10:35 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n8.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 16:10:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2006 23:51:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2006 23:51:20 -0000 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:51:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <dvi6dn+dhd6@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" <glenceol@bellsouth.net> Subject: OT: Looking for something new to read X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=WaUMED-gTRwCg-DEJf7BxcFOSojKT5KAv9jY1tML7MMUIFFakRo X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I'm bored and looking for something new to read. I like Glorfindel, the Twi= ns, Elrond, Haldir and his brothers, Celeborn, Finarfin and his sons, and M= aglor. I've already been through FF.net and OSA and Stories of Arda and T= FF. Any suggestions? Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 438 Return-Path: <alina_moi2004@yahoo.com> X-Sender: alina_moi2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62155 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 17:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 17:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53202.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.72) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 17:21:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 9735 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2006 17:21:35 -0000 Message-ID: <20060319172135.9733.qmail@web53202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.225.142.195] by web53202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:21:35 PST Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:21:35 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <031720062317.27178.441B437C0002C7C800006A2A22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-247885721-1142788895=:9687" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: alina nicoleta <alina_moi2004@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] "F�anorian" versus "F�anorion" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235462409; y=mfkjjT5v00i072jzfdHDsoAJcRZ8vcRaA6AHV1LCkWyRCKeyHBxh1Q X-Yahoo-Profile: alina_moi2004 --0-247885721-1142788895=:9687 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Dawn. I don't know if this is a result of fanon or not, but I use "F�anorion" when speaking about one of the Magnificent Seven (Feanorions is only right if it's considered English, to the best of my shabby Elvish knowledge) I go for "F�anorians" when talking about the sons&dad. And "F�anorian" goes for stuff made by/belonging to Feanor, in my stories et all. This is not much help, I know, but I thought I should add my 0.02$. Alina. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --0-247885721-1142788895=:9687 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Dawn.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <div>I don't know if this is a result of fanon or not, but I use "F�anorion" when speaking about one of the Magnificent Seven (Feanorions is only right if it's considered English, to the best of my shabby Elvish knowledge) I go for "F�anorians" when talking about the sons&dad. And "F�anorian" goes for stuff made by/belonging to Feanor, in my stories et all.</div> <div> </div> <div>This is not much help, I know, but I thought I should add my 0.02$.</div> <div> </div> <div>Alina.</div></BLOCKQUOTE><p> <hr size=1> Yahoo! Mail<br> <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/pmall2/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com">Use Photomail</a> to share photos without annoying attachments. --0-247885721-1142788895=:9687-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 439 Return-Path: <glenceol@bellsouth.net> X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66454 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 17:23:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 17:23:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.221) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 17:23:34 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 17:23:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 17:23:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 17:23:33 -0000 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:23:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <dvk42j+4sq7@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" <glenceol@bellsouth.net> Subject: Need Info on the remnants of Hador's and Beor's houses X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=2C9WTiCX8vj2Tb_Guboddbs7ohZCvzmeiZ_Vxj77h7FF3unKALI X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Does anyone know where these folks dwelt at the time of the War of Wrath? T= hey were said to have taken part in the war, but there doesn't seem to be a= ny good info on where they dwelt. The people of Haleth were in the Northwes= t corner of the forest where Doriath was, I think, but I'm not sure about t= he other two houses of the Edain. Anybody know or have a rough educated gue= ss? Thanks! Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 440 Return-Path: <samthase@aon.at> X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67402 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 18:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 18:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.93) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 18:39:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 14465 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 18:39:21 -0000 Received: from m1724p002.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([80.121.87.98]) (envelope-sender <samthase@aon.at>) by smarthub74.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; 19 Mar 2006 18:39:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <441DA58C.000005.03768@MARINA> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:40:12 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_071E6RO0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <dvi6dn+dhd6@eGroups.com> To: <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" <samthase@aon.at> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Looking for something new to read X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=AHK3MrkxrLtfP3-FifJF4pF3HyIzbpNqs7-Rv7VGaCLS5IZnO8Pk X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_071E6RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is smut, but did you read this? Maglor is pretty important in that story= :) =20 http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2467 Marina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: ellfine2000 Date: 03/19/06 17:10:39 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Looking for something new to read =20 I'm bored and looking for something new to read. I like Glorfindel, the Twins, Elrond, Haldir and his brothers, Celeborn, Finarfin and his sons, and Maglor. =20 I've already been through FF.net and OSA and Stories of Arda and TFF. =20 Any suggestions? =20 Ellie =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 . --------------Boundary-00=_071E6RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset= =3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"IncrediMail 1.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> = <BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: 0px 0px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 5px 1= 0px 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D"" scroll=3Dye= s ORGYPOS=3D"0"> <TABLE id=3DINCREDIMAINTABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding= =3D2 width=3D"100%" border=3D0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; CURSOR: auto; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" width=3D"100%"> <D= IV>It is smut, but did you read this? Maglor is pretty important in th= at story:)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href=3D"http:/= /www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2467">http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfi= c/story.php?no=3D2467</A></DIV> <DIV>Marina</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>&n= bsp;</DIV> <DIV id=3DIncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-----= --</I></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=3Dreceivestrings> <DIV dir=3Dltr sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>From:</B></I> <A href=3D"mailto:glenceol@bells= outh.net">ellfine2000</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I= ><B>Date:</B></I> 03/19/06 17:10:39</DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE= : 11pt"><I><B>To:</B></I> <A href=3D"mailto:SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoog= roups.com">SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dlt= r style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>Subject:</B></I> [SilmarillionWritersGuil= d] OT: Looking for something new to read</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV= >I'm bored and looking for something new to read. I like Glorfindel,</DIV> = <DIV>the Twins, Elrond, Haldir and his brothers, Celeborn,</DIV> <DIV>Finar= fin and his sons, and Maglor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've already bee= n through FF.net and OSA and Stories of Arda and TFF.</DIV> <DIV> </DI= V> <DIV>Any suggestions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ellie</DIV> <DIV>&nbs= p;</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <= /DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yahoo! Groups Links</DIV> <D= IV> </DIV> <DIV><*> To visit your group on the web, go to:</DIV>= <DIV>    <A href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Silm= arillionWritersGuild/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGui= ld/</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><*> To unsubscribe from this gro= up, send an email to:</DIV> <DIV>    <A href=3D"mailto:= SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com">SilmarillionWritersGu= ild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><*> = Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:</DIV> <DIV>    = ;<A href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/t= erms/</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>=  </DIV> <DIV>.</DIV></TD></TR> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDIFOOTER width=3D"10= 0%"> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <T= D width=3D"100%"></TD> <TD id=3DINCREDISOUND vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dmiddle= ></TD> <TD id=3DINCREDIANIM vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dmiddle></TD></TR></TBOD= Y></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><SPAN id=3DIncrediStamp><SPAN dir=3Dltr= ><A href=3D"http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=3D96917"><IMG alt=3D"Ad= d FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!" hspace=3D0 src=3D"http://www2.incredimai= l.com/contents/stamps/imstp_heads_en.gif" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></A><= /SPAN></SPAN></BODY></HTML> --------------Boundary-00=_071E6RO0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 441 Return-Path: <sirielle@tlen.pl> X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17125 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 18:40:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 18:40:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 18:40:46 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6569213781F for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:40:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:40:15 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1541526483.20060319194015@tlen.pl> To: ellfine2000 <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> In-Reply-To: <dvk42j+4sq7@eGroups.com> References: <dvk42j+4sq7@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> Reply-To: Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Need Info on the remnants of Hador's and Beor's houses X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=fFqsu6wG-yvZYIjhfNeUX4DeM3Jzn05WIphU4hZ_KLKQBvL-xlw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai ellfine2000, e> The people of Haleth were in the Northwest corner of the forest where Doriath was, I think, but e> I'm not sure about the other two houses of the Edain. Tuor was Easterling's slave, as the remnants of Hador people who survived the Nirnaeth. I guess some Edain escaped to Doriath area and later the Mouth of Sirion, but that's just a guess. More on the Hador people here: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/p/peopleofhador.html I just checked it, I was right about Easterlings, though not Angband as they say, I think...Hmmm. When Turin comes back to his village there are Easterlings living there, who married Hador women and took all the goods Hador people had. No word of slaves in Angband, I think elves were more useful in Angband - better strength and endurance ;) Beor people: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/p/peopleofbeor.html As I remember Beren was the last survivor from his group, though I am not sure if that was the only group. Haleth People dwelt in the Brethil forest. No idea if they took a part in the War of Wrath. Men of Hador revolted and run away from slavery to join the war. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 442 Return-Path: <glenceol@bellsouth.net> X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80957 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 19:44:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 19:44:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 19:44:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 19:44:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 19:44:38 -0000 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:44:37 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <dvkcb5+of7b@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1541526483.20060319194015@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" <glenceol@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Need Info on the remnants of Hador's and Beor's houses- Sirielle X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=p6PYxrlwW6sgVmlvM0xL1n17WtUEAwdfK1DWEB4Ubrmce9KqSP8 X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Do you think it would be possible that some of the survivors of the peoples= of Hador and Beor would have settled together and intermingled? I am writi= ng a story where one of the main characters lives in such a settlement. Whe= re do you think such a settlement would have been located? Doriath perhaps?= Ellie > > Ai ellfine2000, > > e> The people of Haleth were in the No= rthwest corner of the forest where Doriath was, I think, but > e> I'm not = sure about the other two houses of the Edain. > > Tuor was Easterling's sl= ave, as the remnants of Hador people who survived the Nirnaeth. I guess som= e > Edain escaped to Doriath area and later the Mouth of Sirion, but tha= t's just a guess. > > More on the Hador people here: http://www.glyphweb.c= om/arda/p/peopleofhador.html > > I just checked it, I was right about E= asterlings, though not Angband as they say, I think...Hmmm. > When Turin co= mes back to his village there are Easterlings living there, who married Had= or women and > took all the goods Hador people had. No word of slaves in An= gband, I think elves were more useful in > Angband - better strength and en= durance ;) > > Beor people: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/p/peopleofbeor.= html As I remember Beren was the last > survivor from his group, though= I am not sure if that was the only group. > > Haleth People dwelt in th= e Brethil forest. No idea if they took a part in the War of Wrath. Men of >= Hador revolted and run away from slavery to join the war. > > > > Suila= d, > Sirielle > > sirielle@... > http://siriell= e.deviantart.com/ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 443 Return-Path: <glenceol@bellsouth.net> X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55574 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 19:59:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 19:59:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 19:59:12 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 19:59:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 19:59:05 -0000 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:59:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <dvkd67+699k@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <441DA58C.000005.03768@MARINA> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" <glenceol@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: OT: Looking for something new to read X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=yVOj20kDx3-fuL0Eq_2ZsBA3dp2CT94boVfJKUeGrU140TqloMg X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Nope, I hadn't read this one, yet. Thanks! Ellie > > It is smut, but did y= ou read this? Maglor is pretty important in that > story:) > > > http://= www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2467 > Marina > > > -------Origin= al Message------- > > From: ellfine2000 > Date: 03/19/06 17:10:39 > To: S= ilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuil= d] OT: Looking for something new to read > > I'm bored and looking for so= mething new to read. I like Glorfindel, > the Twins, Elrond, Haldir and his= brothers, Celeborn, > Finarfin and his sons, and Maglor. > > I've alread= y been through FF.net and OSA and Stories of Arda and TFF. > > Any sugges= tions? > > Ellie > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > = > > > > > > . > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 444 Return-Path: <sirielle@tlen.pl> X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59865 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 20:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 20:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 20:16:56 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECC2E137781 for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:16:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:16:57 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1141515501.20060319211657@tlen.pl> To: ellfine2000 <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> In-Reply-To: <dvkcb5+of7b@eGroups.com> References: <1541526483.20060319194015@tlen.pl> <dvkcb5+of7b@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> Reply-To: Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Need Info on the remnants of Hador's and Beor's houses- Sirielle X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=P-8tQ7wCv9bgIZVEBbtXmYQbrI5QVwdXtpby2fXgft-qQpgXJ3Q X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle e> Do you think it would be possible that some of the survivors of the peoples of Hador and Beor e> would have settled together and intermingled? I am writing a story where one of the main e> characters lives in such a settlement. Where do you think such a settlement would have been e> located? Doriath perhaps? I think that would be possible, since some people escaped from the enemies and hid in forests and caves, as Turin and his 'marry company' (bandits or what is the English name?). They were a group of survivors, but I have no idea what was these people's origin. Others might survive in such groups, too. Doriath. Elwe's policy changed after the situation with Beren, he took care of young Turin, so maybe he has helped the others as well. Dior for sure would be open to every refugee. That's my feeling only, of course. Ossiriand for me is a white spot on the map. We know that remnants of House of F�anor escaped there after Nirnaeth (later located on Amon Ereb). Maybe in hard times Laiquendi let the others pass into their realm, too. They didn't want the first people in the beginning, but Beleriand was much safer place then. I think Balar and Ossiriand were the last safe places before the War of Wrath, but I wonder what others think of that? Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 445 Return-Path: <dawnfelagund@comcast.net> X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57818 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 21:30:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 21:30:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.200.81) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 21:30:00 -0000 Received: from smailcenter43.comcast.net ([204.127.205.143]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060319204116011002qfnpe>; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:41:16 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter43.comcast.net; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:41:14 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:41:14 +0000 Message-Id: <031920062041.17986.441DC1EA000D69A40000464222007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Looking for something new to read X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=uMbxma1ojWMJsPHB_AFXIxtuq84qsunwWVtRu6KysLjXk_luAGv5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, Ellie! Well, there's always "Another Man's Cage," which features chapters by Maglor and Finarfin, among others. Checking in at 46 chapters (so far), it's guaranteed to pass an afternoon...or a month of afternoon's. :^P *runs and hides* Seriously, aside from SSPing my long-winded novels, the first Maglor story that I thought of offhand that might not be in any of the places you've checked is Jenni's "Let the Songbird Sing." Now this is slash (Daeron/Maglor) and I don't know if you read slash...but if you do, what I've read of this story so far is lovely. (This is one of the stories on my ten-mile reading list! My dilemma is opposite yours, it seems: not enough time to read all of the stories that I love and want to finish, including yours.) Jenni's also done some stuff with Finrod, but again, it's slash. Let me know if you're interested, and I'll track these down! If you've searched ff.net and TFF for Elrond, you've doubtlessly encountered her; if not, JunoMagic is an excellent author and Elrond's number one fangurl. She's written entire AU novels about him as well as a lot of short stuff. Her stuff on TFF is found here: http://www.tolkienfanfiction.com/Library_Main.php?SELau=90&SELcr=0&SELag=0&SELgn=0&GO=GO She also has a website, which my computer refuses to show at the moment. Grrr. But it is here, if your comp decides to be more agreeable than mine: http://juno-magic.fancrone.net/ I know some Finarfin stories too...but I also know that you've read all of them. ;) And some of them are yours! (But if anyone else wants to show some love for blond peaceniks, let me know, and I spout them off for you.) That's what I have at the moment, but I'll keep thinking about it. (I've been thinking about this all afternoon to get just this far. *sigh*) Best wishes! Dawn PS: Thanks to everyone who answered my question about the Feanorian versus Feanorion versus Feanorean! I'm not going to spam the list with individual replies to each, but know that I'm grateful and appreciate everyone's (superior) knowledge on this. PPS: Any masochists out there *really* interested in reading my forty-six-chapter (so far) epic novel "Another Man's Cage," it is currently appearing only in my LJ and tagged at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/tag/amc . If I ever get my lazy behind in gear, I will revise it and post it in other, more user-friendly places that allow me less inane blathering and hand-wringing than my own LJ. ;) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 446 Return-Path: <melayton@gmail.com> X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48300 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 21:44:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 21:44:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.196) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 21:44:27 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i5so909080wra for <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:44:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.153.12 with SMTP id a12mr1014506wre; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:44:26 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: <melayton@gmail.com> Received: from ?192.168.1.4? ( [65.1.190.126]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 45sm646563wri.2006.03.19.13.44.22; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:44:24 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:44:18 -0500 To: <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <C0433AE3.17AF%melayton@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <031920062041.17986.441DC1EA000D69A40000464222007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3225631462_35238554" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Marta Layton <melayton@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Looking for something new to read X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=BV1o2KCP7boTJPxTyYssBEjxga0z9J3tvOsxQZLfY88akJZS7YmkoA X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva --B_3225631462_35238554 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable > Seriously, aside from SSPing my long-winded novels, the first Maglor stor= y > that I thought of offhand that might not be in any of the places you'v= e > checked is Jenni's "Let the Songbird Sing." Now this is slash (Daeron/M= aglor) > and I don't know if you read slash...but if you do, what I've read= of this > story so far is lovely. (This is one of the stories on my ten-mi= le reading > list! My dilemma is opposite yours, it seems: not enough time = to read all of > the stories that I love and want to finish, including your= s.) Somehow I missed the original email, but from this I=B9m guessing that= someone is asking for Maglor recs. Assuming that=B9s correct, you may fin= d =B3Alqualonde=B2 by Joan Milligan interesting. It=B9s a gut-wrenching vig= nette about Maglor after the kinslaying at Alqualonde =AD very intense, but= VERY well-done, IMO. You can find it at HASA by selecting =B3Joan Milligan= =B2 from the author drop-down list at http://www.henneth-annun.net/ HTH, M= arta --B_3225631462_35238554 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Looking for somethi= ng new to read > S= eriously, aside from SSPing my long-winded novels, the first Maglor story <= BR> > that I thought of offhand  that might not be in any of the pl= aces you've
> checked is Jenni's "Let the Songbird Sing."= Now this is slash (Daeron/Maglor)
> and I don't know if you read s= lash...but if you do, what I've read of this
> story so far is love= ly. (This is one of the stories on my ten-mile reading
> list! My d= ilemma is opposite yours, it seems: not enough time to read all of
>= ; the stories that I love and want to finish, including yours.)

So= mehow I missed the original email, but from this I’m guessing that so= meone is asking for Maglor recs.

Assuming that’s correct, yo= u may find “Alqualonde” by Joan Milligan interesting. It’= s a gut-wrenching vignette about Maglor after the kinslaying at Alqualonde = – very intense, but VERY well-done, IMO. You can find it at HASA by s= electing “Joan Milligan” from the author drop-down list at http://www.henneth-annun.net/
=
HTH,
Marta --B_3225631462_35238554-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 447 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91521 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 23:41:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 23:41:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.232) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 23:41:34 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n9.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 23:41:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 23:41:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 23:41:33 -0000 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:41:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1141515501.20060319211657@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Need Info on the remnants of Hador's and Beor's houses- Sirielle X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=kHg0Go6dutOtZangiWPpMl1s6gC7wXw1_r49-T08R-jkxCPWxjs X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 In my story, an elven warrior from one of the hosts from Valinor encounters= some of the survivors and so far the story is set about 7 years after the = War of Wrath started (I'm going with the briefer version of the war which l= asted for about 25 years or so). I'm trying to place the location of the vi= llage, which is why I'm asking all of these questions. Doriath would have b= een deserted by then except for a few hidden remnants of elves or men, of s= o I think anyway. Does that sound reasonable? Or is there a better location= considering the troops from Valinor need to be able to come into contact w= ith these human survivors? Thanks! Ellie > > I think that would be pos= sible, since some people escaped from the enemies and hid in forests and > = caves, as Turin and his 'marry company' (bandits or what is the English nam= e?). They were a group of > survivors, but I have no idea what was these = people's origin. Others might survive in such groups, > too. Doriath. Elwe= 's policy changed after the situation with Beren, he took care of young Tur= in, so > maybe he has helped the others as well. Dior for sure would b= e open to every refugee. That's my > feeling only, of course. > > Ossirian= d for me is a white spot on the map. We know that remnants of House of F= =EBanor escaped there > after Nirnaeth (later located on Amon Ereb). Maybe= in hard times Laiquendi let the others pass into > their realm, too. The= y didn't want the first people in the beginning, but Beleriand was much saf= er > place then. I think Balar and Ossiriand were the last safe places = before the War of Wrath, but I > wonder what others think of that? > > > = Suilad, > Sirielle > > sirielle@... > http://si= rielle.deviantart.com/ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 448 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4337 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 23:45:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2006 23:45:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 23:45:15 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 23:43:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2006 23:43:58 -0000 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:43:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: OT: Looking for something new to read X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=qGS3jGHS2MINnA-337jhN1HMni4cI-C_cpKuBYZqofHo_wpD5ec X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Marta, Thanks! Actually I'm looking for suggestions of anything new to r= ead (non-slash) about Finarfin or his sons, Maglor, Haldir or his brothers,= Elrond or his sons, Glorfindel, or Celeborn. I've been through much of TFF= , FF.net, Stories of Arda, and OSA already looking for something to tickle = my fancy. Do you have any other suggestions? Ellie > > > Seriously, aside = from SSPing my long-winded novels, the first Maglor story > > that I though= t of offhand that might not be in any of the places you've > > checked is = Jenni's "Let the Songbird Sing." Now this is slash (Daeron/Maglor) > > and = I don't know if you read slash...but if you do, what I've read of this > > = story so far is lovely. (This is one of the stories on my ten-mile reading = > > list! My dilemma is opposite yours, it seems: not enough time to read a= ll of > > the stories that I love and want to finish, including yours.) > = > Somehow I missed the original email, but from this I=B9m guessing that so= meone > is asking for Maglor recs. > > Assuming that=B9s correct, you may = find =B3Alqualonde=B2 by Joan Milligan > interesting. It=B9s a gut-wrenchin= g vignette about Maglor after the kinslaying > at Alqualonde =AD very inten= se, but VERY well-done, IMO. You can find it at > HASA by selecting =B3Joan= Milligan=B2 from the author drop-down list at > http://www.henneth-annun.n= et/ > > HTH, > Marta > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 449 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68270 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2006 00:57:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2006 00:57:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2006 00:57:56 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD76748063 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 01:57:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 01:57:56 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <35131831.20060320015756@tlen.pl> To: ellfine2000 In-Reply-To: References: <1141515501.20060319211657@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Need Info on the remnants of Hador's and Beor's houses- Sirielle X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=6qFF_TWtoWSU9ucObWlasQENwCoIHVEGxd3A1gGI2yP0z46PJGY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Ellie, e> In my story, an elven warrior from one of the hosts from Valinor encounters some of the e> survivors and so far the story is set about 7 years after the War of Wrath started (I'm going e> with the briefer version of the war which lasted for about 25 years or so). I didn't know of the shortest war version. All I know is the short description from the Silmarillion, nothing more. And some hints from HoME coming from ffiction footnotes. Where the description is from? I was discussing the War of Wrath with people on one of Polish JRRT boards and I've learned from them that Manw� wasn't present during the war. [So this way Ingwe really could stay in Valinor, too. As the line in Silmarillion says that he never came back to the East. (But I doubt single lines sometimes, especially when they do not fit into my ideas ;) ).] Manwe stayed at home when I for a change wasn't writing, but preparing to paint him in the war. What a naughty trickster! Maybe in the other description of the war he appears in the battle field? e> I'm trying to place the location of the village, which is why I'm asking all of these questions. I got it. And I think that Brethil was quite safe, but then elves were still active in the area. I guess they travelled in the area of their households to make some order in the foul beasts population. With time and kinslayings the population grew weaker and I expect the regions to be more dangerous, so a single village might be in danger. That's why I was rather thinking of Ossiriand, not Doriath - now exposed to every danger. Elves went away to Cirdan, I expect it was really deserted place. But I think the land after the rivers guarded by Ulmo was still quite safe. e> Doriath would have been deserted by then except for a few hidden remnants of elves or men, of so e> I think anyway. Does that sound reasonable? Or is there a better location considering the troops e> from Valinor need to be able to come into contact with these human survivors? The trips from Valinor sailed to the south Beleriand and were marching north. I expect they passed by the Isle of Balar, where they stopped to chat with Ereinion and survivors. According to HoME even Maedhros and Maglor finally ended on Balar, for the land was taken over by the enemy (that puts Ossiriand in danger, too). Maybe that is early and rejected idea, maybe not - I don't know. The first battles must have taken the place in south and slowly move north to get to Angband in the end. Doriath would be a point on the way during the war - if Morgoth has taken over the land. So I don't see it as a good place for a village, it would have to be a really well hidden place. In this case I guess Hador people didn't escape right away but it took them some time, till the forces of Valinor came closer. Another point to place the village near Ossiriand or inside - not much of the rest of Beleriand survived the war. But what way and direction the land distraction happened - no idea. Maybe the land broke when Tulkas was running across it to fight Morgoth ;) I'm inspired a lot by fan fiction - the 'Paradise Lost' or rather the second series - 'Paradise Regained' by Cirdan - have you red it? Some nice ideas are there and since you are looking for something to read, search for these stories - present on HASA, FF.net, probably in other archives, on Cirdan's site as well. History written from the House of Feanor point of view. Pity the second series is just sketched, not finished, but you'll find there not only fiction but also some info from HoME on the subject :) Good luck with your story, I'll be happy to read it :) Heyyyyyy, but I really would ask other people in the group to say something. I don't trust myself here that much ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 450 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84359 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2006 17:11:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2006 17:11:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.224) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2006 17:11:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n4.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2006 17:11:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2006 17:11:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2006 17:11:36 -0000 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:11:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Sindarin Translation Question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=6VB3AMEL5IZrtigpxUKQbYrsMq-oaJefES3-Q1pUtQYvytZHePE X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I've asked a number of different people this question and keep getting diff= erent answers from people who swear up and down that they are right and eve= ryone else is wrong. I need "nameless one" or "one without a name" transla= ted into Sindarin. Would it be pen-eneth or ben-eneth or, if it is neither = of those, then what is it? Thanks! Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 451 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9279 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2006 21:08:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2006 21:08:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2006 21:08:11 -0000 Received: from smailcenter42.comcast.net ([204.127.205.142]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060327201602012007jdj6e>; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:16:02 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter42.comcast.net; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:16:00 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:16:00 +0000 Message-Id: <032720062016.14400.4428480000083E0C0000384022007481840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14400_1143490560_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: FAQs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=GHQaqiaFL9Z8ZEWKBJ1zbqF0HokiI6WSkgbFtVUVxdSoJHz_r5Zj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14400_1143490560_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, all! Progress on our homepage is coming along. As I mentioned before, the layout is basically finished. My goal this month was to finish the content so that I can have the site posted in some free space while I study up on PHP and get the archive running. This will allow you all to give me feedback on the design and content of the site before it's launched for the general public to use. I am in the process of working on some FAQs for the group. I've fielded lots of questions since starting this group, but most have to do with technical sorts of things. (How do I post to the LJ? How do I do an LJ cut?) I hope to eventually develop FAQs for this technical sort of stuff too, but in the meantime, I'm interested to know if you all can think of questions that would be practical to address in the FAQ. So far, I have some stuff about our different groups (Yahoo, LJ, homepage) and posting guidelines (not very strict), and I hope to add some stuff on challenges. I'm open to ideas! So...any questions? What sorts of things do you like to know when first checking out or joining a group? Is there anything specific that you wonder(ed) about SWG that you would have like--or continue to wish--to see addressed? What kinds of things do you think the average Silmfic author might want/need to know about our group? Ideas can be posted to the list or sent to me privately at DawnFelagund@comcast.net. Those of you with YIM can send an offline or try to catch me on YIM under the screenname DawnFelagund. I appreciate your thoughts and input! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14400_1143490560_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, all!
Progress on our homepage is coming along. As I mentioned before, the layout is basically finished. My goal this month was to finish the content so that I can have the site posted in some free space while I study up on PHP and get the archive running. This will allow you all to give me feedback on the design and content of the site before it's launched for the general public to use.
 
I am in the process of working on some FAQs for the group. I've fielded lots of questions since starting this group, but most have to do with technical sorts of things. (How do I post to the LJ? How do I do an LJ cut?) I hope to eventually develop FAQs for this technical sort of stuff too, but in the meantime, I'm interested to know if you all can think of questions that would be practical to address in the FAQ. So far, I have some stuff about our different groups (Yahoo, LJ, homepage) and posting guidelines (not very strict), and I hope to add some stuff on challenges. I'm open to ideas!
 
So...any questions?
 
What sorts of things do you like to know when first checking out or joining a group? Is there anything specific that you wonder(ed) about SWG that you would have like--or continue to wish--to see addressed? What kinds of things do you think the average Silmfic author might want/need to know about our group?
 
Ideas can be posted to the list or sent to me privately at DawnFelagund@comcast.net. Those of you with YIM can send an offline or try to catch me on YIM under the screenname DawnFelagund.
 
I appreciate your thoughts and input!
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14400_1143490560_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 452 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36218 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2006 19:50:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2006 19:50:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2006 19:50:44 -0000 Received: from smailcenter48.comcast.net ([204.127.205.148]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006040418324201100ll97se>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:32:42 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter48.comcast.net; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 18:32:40 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 18:32:40 +0000 Message-Id: <040420061832.19815.4432BBC7000F341A00004D6722007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19815_1144175560_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: April Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=6jECeSSTBl-OuAOldIw2s3EfT4xv5LqbqKd5CUTZm6S7ssXnvkya X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19815_1144175560_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, all! I was driving into work this morning and it occurred to me that I forgot to post a notice about the April newsletter to the Yahoo! list. *facepalm* Well, here it is, four days late. The April newsletter can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/47628.html We have a new challenge this month, and--by demand of the masses--it's Celegorm Appreciation Month! So if you have any old Celegorm fics lurking in the dark corners of your hard drive, now is a good time to dust them off and appreciate the most controversial of Feanor's sons. Of course, fresh inspiration is welcome too. :) There are a couple of new stories posted at the LJ community already this month, so if you're looking for something good to read, go check them out! http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/ As always, have a great week and best wishes to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19815_1144175560_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, all!
I was driving into work this morning and it occurred to me that I forgot to post a notice about the April newsletter to the Yahoo! list. *facepalm* Well, here it is, four days late.
 
The April newsletter can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/47628.html
 
We have a new challenge this month, and--by demand of the masses--it's Celegorm Appreciation Month! So if you have any old Celegorm fics lurking in the dark corners of your hard drive, now is a good time to dust them off and appreciate the most controversial of Feanor's sons. Of course, fresh inspiration is welcome too. :)
 
There are a couple of new stories posted at the LJ community already this month, so if you're looking for something good to read, go check them out!
 
 
As always, have a great week and best wishes to all,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19815_1144175560_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 453 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87823 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2006 17:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2006 17:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.155) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2006 17:57:12 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n12.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2006 17:57:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2006 17:57:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2006 17:57:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:57:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Celegorm appreciation month X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=_CZ4qkDDaxCVUtrisW7E4_4Vj0MX57jABXfwsMDZBMHVR4UH2yw6OW0 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all! I kicked off the Celegorm appreciation month... if you don't mind.= :c) I just posted Autumn Hunter (rating R/adult) to LJ. And I am looking f= or a beta who has time to look at a tripple drabble or possibly a vignette = featuring him. So it would be great if that could be posted this month as w= ell. Is anyone willing to help me out? Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 454 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99201 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2006 20:27:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2006 20:27:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.77) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2006 20:26:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 23981 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2006 20:26:27 -0000 Received: from m117p004.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.182.132]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub78.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 4 Apr 2006 20:26:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <4432D6AF.000061.01216@MARINA> Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 22:27:27 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_RTS7EV666RO000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <040420061832.19815.4432BBC7000F341A00004D6722007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] April Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=Jmtgp2i3n6-WR2yPGNNd-WRLU7EpGtFNT9j92sdDXbtH73TV7YFU X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_RTS7EV666RO000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darn, Celegorm...I have only chapter where he is coming along, petting his = hound.....But I am working on a novel about some Valinorian elf and it goes= over 4 ages (including Valinor forth and back).=20 Dawn, I still am tooooo stupid to post my stories!!! MArina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 04/04/06 21:50:52 To: SWG Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] April Newsletter =20 Hi, all! I was driving into work this morning and it occurred to me that I forgot t= o post a notice about the April newsletter to the Yahoo! list. *facepalm* W= ell here it is, four days late. =20 The April newsletter can be found here: http://community.livejournal com/s= ilwritersguild/47628.html =20 We have a new challenge this month, and--by demand of the masses--it's Cel= egorm Appreciation Month! So if you have any old Celegorm fics lurking in t= he dark corners of your hard drive, now is a good time to dust them off and= appreciate the most controversial of Feanor's sons. Of course, fresh inspi= ration is welcome too. :) =20 There are a couple of new stories posted at the LJ community already this = month, so if you're looking for something good to read, go check them out! =20 http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/ =20 As always, have a great week and best wishes to all, Dawn Felagund =20 -- ~oOo~=20 Dawn Felagund=20 Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund=20 Are you a relentless First-Ager?=20 Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.=20 ~oOo~ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS=20 Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 --------------Boundary-00=_RTS7EV666RO000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Hi Rhapsody,
 
Well I watched stories disappe= ar without reason, author had no idea either why...stealing of stories...
 
The uploading drove me nuts too and therefore I= use now my website, OSA (though so little Sil writters), dreamelf and this= lovely place...once I have figured all out how to do so :)
Marina 
 
-= ------Original Message-------
 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel/Indis question
<= DIV>  =
wrote:
>
> I do not = dare to post at the ff.net at all. I saw so many weird
> thin= gs happening there.
 
Heh, I saw this one and wo= ndered what weird things were happening
there. I am there, LOL, = but I hardly upload things there because it's
a pain to do so.
 
Dawn: important feature for the site. User frie= ndly way to upload your
material...;c)
 
<= DIV>Rhapsody
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
=  
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
<*>= ; To visit your group on the web, go to:
 
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
<= DIV>    SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.c= om
 
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is = subject to:
 
 
 
 
.
=
Darn, Celegorm...I have only chapter where he is coming along, pett= ing his hound.....But I am working on a novel about some Valinorian elf and= it goes over 4 ages (including Valinor forth and back).
&= nbsp;
Dawn, I still am tooooo stupid to post my stories!!!
=
MArina 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: = DawnFelagund@comcast.net
Date: 04/04/06 2= 1:50:52
To: SWG
Subject: [SilmarillionW= ritersGuild] April Newsletter
 
Hi, al= l!
I was driving into work this morning and it occurred to me th= at I forgot to post a notice about the April newsletter to the Yahoo! list.= *facepalm* Well, here it is, four days late.
 
= The April newsletter can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwr= itersguild/47628.html
 
We have a new challe= nge this month, and--by demand of the masses--it's Celegorm Appreciation Mo= nth! So if you have any old Celegorm fics lurking in the dark corners of yo= ur hard drive, now is a good time to dust them off and appreciate the most = controversial of Feanor's sons. Of course, fresh inspiration is welcome too= . :)
 
There are a couple of new stories posted = at the LJ community already this month, so if you're looking for something = good to read, go check them out!
 
 
As always, have a = great week and best wishes to all,
Dawn Felagund
&nbs= p;
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagun= d
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/user= info.bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
= Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/use= rinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.
~oOo~
 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_RTS7EV666RO000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 455 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80536 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2006 20:44:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2006 20:44:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (63.240.77.83) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2006 20:44:41 -0000 Received: from smailcenter48.comcast.net ([204.127.205.148]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2006040419302701300btg50e>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 19:30:27 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter48.comcast.net; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 19:30:26 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 19:30:26 +0000 Message-Id: <040420061930.20038.4432C951000EE13E00004E4622007354460B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20038_1144179026_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: SSPs--"Constellation" and "Forgotten Lore" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=IWx0c2oSwxO4qtFjmyIzlOUryhVhYxRgW149OeGD_qW-eqSoh3fX X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20038_1144179026_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, everyone, Last month, I wrote two short stories as birthday gifts for friends. *waves to Tarion and Allie* They are currently posted in my LJ for the reading pleasure of Silmaniacs everywhere. The first is called "Constellation" and is slightly AU (in that I use my personal "verse" versions of the characters, with some invention), looking at the friendship between the loremaster Rumil of Tirion and Caranthir. It begins in Caranthir's early childhood and ends shortly after the Noldor arrive in Middle-earth. "Constellation" can be found at: http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/99279.html It is rated "General" but be forewarned of some violent content. The second story is actually a series of eight double drabbles called "Forgotten Lore." Allie wanted birthday stories having to do with students and so I chose to write about the different lessons Nerdanel has learned over the course of her life, starting in her childhood until shortly after her separation from Feanor. "Forgotten Lore" can be found at: http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/101371.html I kept the rating at "General" also, but there is nudity and some sexual content (Nerdanel/Feanor) but nothing graphic. Did anyone else do any writing last month and want to share some stories? :) Best regards to all! Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20038_1144179026_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Greetings, everyone,
Last month, I wrote two short stories as birthday gifts for friends. *waves to Tarion and Allie* They are currently posted in my LJ for the reading pleasure of Silmaniacs everywhere.
 
The first is called "Constellation" and is slightly AU (in that I use my personal "verse" versions of the characters, with some invention), looking at the friendship between the loremaster Rumil of Tirion and Caranthir. It begins in Caranthir's early childhood and ends shortly after the Noldor arrive in Middle-earth.
 
"Constellation" can be found at: http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/99279.html   It is rated "General" but be forewarned of some violent content.
 
The second story is actually a series of eight double drabbles called "Forgotten Lore." Allie wanted birthday stories having to do with students and so I chose to write about the different lessons Nerdanel has learned over the course of her life, starting in her childhood until shortly after her separation from Feanor.
 
"Forgotten Lore" can be found at: http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/101371.html   I kept the rating at "General" also, but there is nudity and some sexual content (Nerdanel/Feanor) but nothing graphic.
 
Did anyone else do any writing last month and want to share some stories? :)
Best regards to all!
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20038_1144179026_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 456 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58761 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2006 02:05:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2006 02:05:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2006 02:05:35 -0000 Received: from smailcenter68.comcast.net ([204.127.205.168]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006040501291101100lauc2e>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 01:29:11 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter68.comcast.net; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 01:29:10 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 01:29:10 +0000 Message-Id: <040520060129.931.44331D660009F43C000003A322070206530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_931_1144200550_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] April Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=kY9hpxbFY3aemWBxVXpkrtFB8IcNg52nU_OVjgq2coYNphsSekZF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_931_1144200550_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Marina, Well, if you ever want another go at Dawn Felagund's Tech Support, I'm generally on the comp all day during work. Doing...erm...work, of course. ;) Just drop me an email, and I'll talk you through it. :) This goes for everyone. Hopefully, once the bona fide archive is going, it will be easier to post than LiveJournal. *hopes* Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_931_1144200550_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: "MARINA" To: Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] April Newsletter Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 20:28:46 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_931_1144200550_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_931_1144200550_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Darn, Celegorm...I have only chapter where he is coming along, petting his hound.....But I am working on a novel about some Valinorian elf and it goes over 4 ages (including Valinor forth and back).
 
Dawn, I still am tooooo stupid to post my stories!!!
MArina 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 04/04/06 21:50:52
To: SWG
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] April Newsletter
 
Hi, all!
I was driving into work this morning and it occurred to me that I forgot to post a notice about the April newsletter to the Yahoo! list. *facepalm* Well, here it is, four days late.
 
The April newsletter can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/47628.html
 
We have a new challenge this month, and--by demand of the masses--it's Celegorm Appreciation Month! So if you have any old Celegorm fics lurking in the dark corners of your hard drive, now is a good time to dust them off and appreciate the most controversial of Feanor's sons. Of course, fresh inspiration is welcome too. :)
 
There are a couple of new stories posted at the LJ community already this month, so if you're looking for something good to read, go check them out!
 
 
As always, have a great week and best wishes to all,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
 
Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE! --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_931_1144200550_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_931_1144200550_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 457 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91795 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2006 12:41:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2006 12:41:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.91) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2006 12:41:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 28710 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2006 12:41:39 -0000 Received: from m1725p006.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([80.121.87.134]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub73.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 5 Apr 2006 12:41:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <4433BB40.000003.02452@MARINA> Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:42:40 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_4Z19G6G0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <040520060129.931.44331D660009F43C000003A322070206530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] April Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=FQEB9JF7U2J33rSXY_6cqdGPvneBi30YldrljaaGqreNNEmlLzDr X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_4Z19G6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You are a blast! I will email you off list then :) Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 04/05/06 04:06:09 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] April Newsletter =20 Hi, Marina, Well, if you ever want another go at Dawn Felagund's Tech Support, I'm gen= erally on the comp all day during work. Doing...erm...work, of course. ;) J= ust drop me an email, and I'll talk you through it. :) =20 This goes for everyone. =20 Hopefully, once the bona fide archive is going, it will be easier to post = than LiveJournal. *hopes* Dawn =20 -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund =20 Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild. ~oOo~ =20 =20 =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_4Z19G6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
You are a blast! I will email you off list then :)
Marina&nbs= p;
 
-------Origi= nal Message-------
 
Date: 04/05/06 04:06:09
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogro= ups.com
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] April Newsletter
&nb= sp;
Hi, Marina,
Well, if you ever want another go at = Dawn Felagund's Tech Support, I'm generally on the comp all day during work= . Doing...erm...work, of course. ;) Just drop me an email, and I'll talk yo= u through it. :)
 
This goes for everyone.
=
 
Hopefully, once the bona fide archive is going, it = will be easier to post than LiveJournal. *hopes*
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
 
Are you a relentless= First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http:/= /www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.
~o= Oo~
 
 
 
 =
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
<*> To v= isit your group on the web, go to:
 
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subjec= t to:
 
<= DIV> 
 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_4Z19G6G0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 458 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57351 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2006 15:24:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2006 15:24:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2006 15:24:07 -0000 Received: from smailcenter43.comcast.net ([204.127.205.143]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006040514352801200m0c8le>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:35:28 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter43.comcast.net; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:35:27 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:35:27 +0000 Message-Id: <040520061435.17296.4433D5AF000A68F00000439022007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17296_1144247727_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Celegorm appreciation month X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=xBVjsl1endyDTZeBvJq-1MxQkGUTWSCBl5UuKXlJxd4SnN6PSVjj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17296_1144247727_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Rhapsody, I'm happy to look at it, if you want. I'm not the fastest beta, but since it's short, I could probably have it done in a few days. Just let me know! Happy Celegorm Appreciation Month! ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17296_1144247727_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, Rhapsody,
I'm happy to look at it, if you want. I'm not the fastest beta, but since it's short, I could probably have it done in a few days. Just let me know!
Happy Celegorm Appreciation Month! ;)
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17296_1144247727_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 459 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60009 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2006 16:42:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2006 16:42:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2006 16:42:22 -0000 Received: from smailcenter43.comcast.net ([204.127.205.143]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006040516114101200m069je>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:11:41 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter43.comcast.net; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:11:40 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:11:40 +0000 Message-Id: <040520061611.23861.4433EC3C0008821A00005D3522007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23861_1144253500_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] April Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=0A4ZHXRCHtguoy6IQjfERX2fTvN3VdoWY2A5pYH9kKV4RSAfnH0T X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23861_1144253500_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, everyone, I have updated our LiveJournal a bit. I have removed the now-defunct FAQs and replaced them with an instructional post on how to post writing to the community, illustrated with screen captures. It can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/813.html However, I am *always* willing to help you if you have problems or want me to talk you through it individually. Please do not hesitate to email me at DawnFelagund@comcast.net, send a YIM message to DawnFelagund, or reply in a comment to the post I've linked above. (The first and last are likely to get the quickest response, as I can only use YIM at home and don't tend to log onto my home computer every day.) I'm always happy to help. :) Best wishes to all! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23861_1144253500_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, everyone,
I have updated our LiveJournal a bit. I have removed the now-defunct FAQs and replaced them with an instructional post on how to post writing to the community, illustrated with screen captures. It can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/813.html
 
However, I am *always* willing to help you if you have problems or want me to talk you through it individually. Please do not hesitate to email me at DawnFelagund@comcast.net, send a YIM message to DawnFelagund, or reply in a comment to the post I've linked above. (The first and last are likely to get the quickest response, as I can only use YIM at home and don't tend to log onto my home computer every day.) I'm always happy to help. :)
 
Best wishes to all!
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23861_1144253500_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 460 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7165 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2006 18:12:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2006 18:12:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.213) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2006 18:12:34 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n22.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2006 18:12:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2006 18:12:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2006 18:12:08 -0000 Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 18:12:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <040520061435.17296.4433D5AF000A68F00000439022007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Celegorm appreciation month X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=-U7HAhxvg-l35gYPk_cVzYzSbyKV92yKETI0b6mFR-N_oXNsnsB9fzI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Hi, Rhapsody, > I'm happy to look at it, if you want. I'm not the fastest= beta, but > since it's short, I could probably have it done in a few days= . Just > let me know! I did found a beta, thanks. This thing is still a = wip, because I am contemplating another chapter. > Happy Celegorm Appreci= ation Month! ;) Yay! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 461 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37211 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2006 09:15:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2006 09:15:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2006 09:15:28 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2006 09:15:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2006 09:15:26 -0000 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 09:15:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: MEFA Announcement: Nominations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=6cSAnVPwxbJTzvnnKQeQLacblbGbC5KePuotrEUcWCmU4nO60jihHos X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard On behalf of Marta, I am passing this on: It's almost that time again! The= Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards will be accepting nominations throughout th= e month of May. You may nominate any story, drabble, poem, essay, or other = style of fanfic provided it is accessible to the public without logging in = and that it is rated G-R. Pieces are eligible once as an incomplete story a= nd again once completed. Anyone can nominate a story by joining the [MEFAw= ards] Yahoo group. If you do not have a Yahoo ID please email the awards ad= ministrators at mefasupport@gmail.com, and we will send you an invitation t= o join. Once we see that you are a member, we will also send you log-in inf= ormation for the website where you may enter the nominations. Each person m= ay nominate up to twenty pieces of any length. Self-nominations are absolut= ely allowed and encouraged, and count to the personal limit of twenty piece= s just like any other nomination. If you participated in last year's MEFAs= your password from last year will still work. This year nominating and vot= ing will be done at our new website: http://www.mefawards.net/mefa2006/ I= f you do not remember your password or have trouble logging in please email= us at mefasupport@gmail.com. We will do our best to resolve the situation.= If you are new to the awards, feel free to check out the awards rules and= FAQs. They are both available at: http://www.mefawards.net/faq/ One othe= r important change: this year the award's calendar will be based on GMT. Th= at means nomination season will open at 12:00:01 AM GMT on May 1 and close = at 11:59:59 GMT on May 31. If you are in a different time zone you will nee= d to adjust your times accordingly. For example, for the US East Coast (fiv= e hours behind GMT) nominations will open at 7:00:01 PM on April 30. We're= looking forward to a great year, and hope everyone else is, too! Please fe= el free to share this announcement with any other group who might find it o= f interest, and pass along any questions to mefasupport@gmail.com Cheers, = Marta (Humble MEFA Admin) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 462 Return-Path: X-Sender: kun@frappr.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37492 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2006 05:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2006 05:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dm0.slide.com) (64.147.162.142) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2006 05:18:41 -0000 Received: from bakura1.365.slide.com (lvs0.mrlventures.com [64.147.162.138]) by dm0.slide.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6169D94027 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:18:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bakura1.365.slide.com (Postfix, from userid 575) id 34B6414724; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:18:07 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Frappr-Ident: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: <20060419051807.34B6414724@bakura1.365.slide.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:18:07 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Wolfwind Subject: See where all our friends are on my Friend Map! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=91c8wmYXg9ZA2EcQozgMU6rEiizXquTj8n3M04EatGtzgU_Nf3QOjVY X-Yahoo-Profile: bookwormauthor Wolfwind started a Friend Map on Frappr so your friends can all see each other on a map. Come put yourself on the map! To see Wolfwind's Friend Map, click below or paste the url into a browser: http://www.frappr.com/?a=widgetlandingf&id=433705&iv=1&hash=0p4r8&re=1 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 463 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61374 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 06:04:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 06:04:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.208) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 06:04:50 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n17.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 06:04:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 06:04:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 06:04:36 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 06:04:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: 2006 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards Start Delayed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=06JsfQCSC_SkmobXBbBZYF2HASurXWKW24UOnF_MIthUlb5x8COYEqw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard On behalf of Marta, I am passing on this news The Middle-earth Fanfiction = Awards (MEFAs for short) are gearing up for the 2006 season. Many of us hav= e been working very hard over the last few weeks to make sure that everythi= ng is in order. We had originally hoped to begin accepting nominations on M= ay 1, but have decided to delay that a few days so we can make sure all of = the guidelines and forms are as correct as they can be. We want to avoid co= nfusion as much as possible. We expect to be able to start within the next = day or two. You will still be able to make nominations throughout the mont= h of May. Hopefully having a few less days to do so will not inconvenience = anyone too much, and we do not want to confuse people by changing more date= s than we have to. Please make sure that you make any nominations you wish = to by 11:59:59 PM GMT on May 31. What can you do in the meantime? You can = certainly start thinking about the pieces you would like to nominate. The M= EFAs accept virtually any type of Tolkien fanfic, both fiction and nonficti= on, and every member can nominate up to twenty pieces. We allow authors to = nominate their own work, and such nominations count toward the twenty-piece= limit. For more information on eligibility please see http://www.mefawards= .net/faq/viewforum.php?f=3D1 If you are not already a member and would li= ke to nominate stories, you should join the Yahoo group [MEFAwards]. This l= ets us reach all of our members quickly and easily. If you do not have a Ya= hoo account just send an email to mefasupport(a)gmail.com, and I will send = you an invitation that allows you to join by email. If you participated las= t year but have forgotten your password, you can email mefasupport(a)gmail= .com. I will go ahead and resend your password so you will be ready to begi= n nominating when we begin that in a few days. Anyone interested can also= review the FAQs and rules for 2006. You can find the FAQs at http://www.m= efawards.net/faq/ , and the rules at http://www.mefawards.net/faq/viewforum= .php?f=3D10 . Thank you for your patience! Watch this forum for another an= nouncements when we open up nominations. Cheers, Marta (humble MEFA admin)= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 464 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89521 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 16:28:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 16:28:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc14.comcast.net) (204.127.200.84) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 16:28:49 -0000 Received: from smailcenter60.comcast.net ([204.127.205.160]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2006050115443401400267mue>; Mon, 1 May 2006 15:44:34 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter60.comcast.net; Mon, 01 May 2006 15:44:33 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 15:44:33 +0000 Message-Id: <050120061544.14680.44562CE100058FFD0000395822070029530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14680_1146498273_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: May 2006 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=NOiwrn-K82c3NF919cNJO2-qUB46cNM0Y36nD9cWZ3IaveFGbf4o X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14680_1146498273_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, all! Our May newsletter with our latest challenges and announcements is out! And you can view it in pretty format on the shiny, new beta-version of our homepage: http://www.geocities.com/dawnfelagund/news/newsletter.html Or on LiveJournal: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/51603.html Or read the synopsis here. Choices, choices! MAY'S CHALLENGES *Canon with a Twist* Have you ever wondered, what if just one thing had been done differently in the canon? Maedhros had decided to hold off on meeting Morgoth? What if Orome had taken a different road and hadn't discovered the Elves for another five centuries? What if Haleth had taken Caranthir's offer to stay in Thargelion? What would have changed? This challenge asks you to think about just that. Choose a single moment in Tolkien's canon and have the character make a different choice. How does history change? Or how does fate fulfill itself? The response may be any length and format--poetry, drabble, or fiction--but should ask what might have happened if one thing had changed. *Quote of the Month Challenge* This month's quote: "Now in Mithrim there dwelt Grey-elves, folk of Beleriand that had wandered north over the mountains, and the Noldor met them with gladness, as kinsfolk long sundered; but speech at first was not easy between them, for in their long severance the tongues of the Calaquendi in Valinor and of the Moriquendi in Beleriand had drawn far apart." -The Silmarillion, "Of the Return of the Noldor" WELCOMES AND BIRTHDAYS I would like to extend warmest welcome wishes to kaizer_ken_ichijouji, lenajade9, ceana33003, and Dean, our new members who joined the Yahoo! portion of our group in April! Welcome also to those who have joined or are following our LiveJournal. No members with birthdays in May have signed up for stories. NEWS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS *The Beta-Version of Our Homepage Is Launched!* The biggest news this month was the launch of a beta-version of our homepage! This is an exciting time for SWG, and I would like to encourage all interested persons to get involved with building our site. As a recent initiate into web design, I am always open to suggestions and offers of help. Please don't hesitate to drop me at a line at DawnFelagund@comcast.net. In the months to come, our site will sport many new and exciting features. Chief of these will be our forums and archives, which I am currently researching. In early July, our site will be moving from free Geocities space to our own domain. Keep checking back for updates! Check out our homepage here: http://www.geocities.com/dawnfelagund/index.html *List Your Group in the Yellow Pages* As discussed, one of the features of the Reference section of our website will be the Silmarillion Yellow Pages, a listing of groups and sites that have to do with The Silmarillion and writing. If you have a group or site that you think fits the bill for our Yellow Pages, don't be shy: sign up! Hopefully, this will one day be a good way to connect Silmarillion groups with people who might otherwise have never found--or found only with difficulty--the group or site that fits their needs. No group is too large or too small, and everything from canon resources to fiction archives to RPGs are acceptable! Guidelines for submitting a group and the necessary forms can be found on our site here: http://www.geocities.com/dawnfelagund/reference/joinyellowpages.html *LiveJournal Posting Tutorial* Because posting to LiveJournal can be tough for the uninitiated, I have replace our old and no-longer-pertinent FAQs with a step-by-step illustrated tuturial about how to post in the SWG LiveJournal community. All you need to post in our community using this tutorial is a free LiveJournal account; you do not need to be a member of or have SWG friended in order to post. The tutorial can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/813.html (It is also linked on our LJ userinfo page.) As always, if the tutorial does not help you or you prefer to interact with a real person, please do not hesitate to contact me for help. That's why Eru made moderators. ;) Best wishes to all for a happy May filled with well-behaved muses (however you may define that)! Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@comcast.net -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14680_1146498273_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Greetings, all!
Our May newsletter with our latest challenges and announcements is out! And you can view it in pretty format on the shiny, new beta-version of our homepage:
 
Or on LiveJournal:
 
Or read the synopsis here. Choices, choices!
 
MAY'S CHALLENGES
*Canon with a Twist*
Have you ever wondered, what if just one thing had been done differently in the canon? Maedhros had decided to hold off on meeting Morgoth? What if Orome had taken a different road and hadn't discovered the Elves for another five centuries? What if Haleth had taken Caranthir's offer to stay in Thargelion? What would have changed?
 
This challenge asks you to think about just that. Choose a single moment in Tolkien's canon and have the character make a different choice. How does history change? Or how does fate fulfill itself? The response may be any length and format--poetry, drabble, or fiction--but should ask what might have happened if one thing had changed.
 
*Quote of the Month Challenge*
This month's quote:
"Now in Mithrim there dwelt Grey-elves, folk of Beleriand that had wandered north over the mountains, and the Noldor met them with gladness, as kinsfolk long sundered; but speech at first was not easy between them, for in their long severance the tongues of the Calaquendi in Valinor and of the Moriquendi in Beleriand had drawn far apart."
-The Silmarillion, "Of the Return of the Noldor"
 
WELCOMES AND BIRTHDAYS
I would like to extend warmest welcome wishes to kaizer_ken_ichijouji, lenajade9, ceana33003, and Dean, our new members who joined the Yahoo! portion of our group in April! Welcome also to those who have joined or are following our LiveJournal.
 
No members with birthdays in May have signed up for stories.
 
NEWS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS
*The Beta-Version of Our Homepage Is Launched!*
The biggest news this month was the launch of a beta-version of our homepage!
 
This is an exciting time for SWG, and I would like to encourage all interested persons to get involved with building our site. As a recent initiate into web design, I am always open to suggestions and offers of help. Please don't hesitate to drop me at a line at DawnFelagund@comcast.net.
 
In the months to come, our site will sport many new and exciting features. Chief of these will be our forums and archives, which I am currently researching. In early July, our site will be moving from free Geocities space to our own domain. Keep checking back for updates!
 
Check out our homepage here:
 
*List Your Group in the Yellow Pages*
As discussed, one of the features of the Reference section of our website will be the Silmarillion Yellow Pages, a listing of groups and sites that have to do with The Silmarillion and writing.
 
If you have a group or site that you think fits the bill for our Yellow Pages, don't be shy: sign up! Hopefully, this will one day be a good way to connect Silmarillion groups with people who might otherwise have never found--or found only with difficulty--the group or site that fits their needs. No group is too large or too small, and everything from canon resources to fiction archives to RPGs are acceptable! Guidelines for submitting a group and the necessary forms can be found on our site here: http://www.geocities.com/dawnfelagund/reference/joinyellowpages.html
 
*LiveJournal Posting Tutorial*
Because posting to LiveJournal can be tough for the uninitiated, I have replace our old and no-longer-pertinent FAQs with a step-by-step illustrated tuturial about how to post in the SWG LiveJournal community. All you need to post in our community using this tutorial is a free LiveJournal account; you do not need to be a member of or have SWG friended in order to post. The tutorial can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/813.html (It is also linked on our LJ userinfo page.)
 
As always, if the tutorial does not help you or you prefer to interact with a real person, please do not hesitate to contact me for help. That's why Eru made moderators. ;)
 
Best wishes to all for a happy May filled with well-behaved muses (however you may define that)!
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14680_1146498273_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 465 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63306 invoked from network); 3 May 2006 10:33:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2006 10:33:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.90) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2006 10:33:51 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 May 2006 10:33:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 May 2006 10:33:33 -0000 Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 10:33:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: MEFA Nomination Season Open X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=XJC6v4opTIN9TErvhjM3UzaowZYNvRtRGoPCXsSi8Pla_m3FfNl_AyU X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi guys, I'm proud to announce that the 2006 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awar= ds are open for nominations. To vote, please go to http://www.mefawards.net= /MEFA2006 . Some important reminders: 1. Each member is limited to nomina= ting twenty pieces. 2. Nominators this year provide the story URL, the sto= ry title, and the author's name. (If the author does not already have a sto= ry nominated, the nominator also needs to provide the author's email addres= s). All other information is provided by the authors. 3. The rules and sev= eral FAQs about different aspects of the awards are available at http://www= .mefawards.net/faq/ . If you have any questions you may find this site help= ful. 3. The nomination form has changed substantially, hopefully for the b= etter. Authors will now select a time period, genre, and race the story is = about, and rank their preference as to which category they most want their = story to take place in. This replaces the question last year where authors= were asked to give their first-, second-, and third-choice categories. 4.= Authors will be asked a series of questions about their stories and this i= nformation will be used to form sub-categories. This replaces the question = last year where you were asked to list some potential sub-categories. 5. N= ominators may now nominate stories posted after the start of nomination sea= son. The only requirement is that the piece be posted at the time you nomin= ate it. 6. Authors may vote on other authors' pieces without being require= d to join the MEFAwards group. To nominate other stories (by themselves or = other authors) they must still join the MEFAwards group. If the author does= not have a Yahoo account they can be added as an email only member if they= would like. 7. Not a change, but a reminder: make sure the piece you nomi= nated was not nominated before. Each piece can be nominated once as a WIP a= nd once again as a completed piece. 2004's nominations are available at htt= p://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa/final2004noms.html; 2005's nominations at http= ://gabrielle.sytes.net/MEFA2005/ . Members of the MEFAwards Yahoo group can= also find stories previously nominated in the databases "Ineligible Comple= te Works" and "Ineligible Incomplete Works" at http://groups.yahoo.com/grou= p/MEFAwards/database . Those are the most significant changes. Please make= sure you are familiar with the pertinent rules and FAQs, and if you have a= ny question feel free to email mefasupport@gmail.com . Marta (MEFA Admin) = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 466 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83446 invoked from network); 19 May 2006 12:26:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2006 12:26:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.159) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2006 12:26:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n16.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2006 12:25:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2006 12:25:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2006 12:25:11 -0000 Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:25:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: MEFA Nomination Season Extended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=IkhW-OgSyX7Z5anlGYEXJtAe0JcDVwlvwQqYF5ph8l1hKkqmbM0vbd0 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hey guys, The Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards has decided to extend its nom= ination season an extra two weeks, through June 15. To nominate you need t= o be a member of the [MEFAwards] Yahoo group. Once you join you will be sen= t a username and password to log in to http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2006/ ,= where you can nominate stories, poems, and essays by your favourite Tolkie= n fanfic writers. Including yourself! You can nominate up to twenty pieces = by yourself or others. I have also posted some reminders about what is eli= gible and what's not. See http://community.livejournal.com/mefas/9267.html = You can also view our FAQs on eligibiility at http://www.mefawards.net/faq= /viewforum.php?f=3D1 . If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to= ask - simply email me at mefasupport(a)gmail.com . If you aren't a member = of the [MEFAwards] Yahoo group and need help joining, you can also request = help at that same email address. Marta (MEFA Admin) *** On a more person= al note, congrats to all SWG-members who were nominated!! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 467 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24372 invoked from network); 19 May 2006 17:30:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2006 17:30:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.200.82) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2006 17:30:03 -0000 Received: from smailcenter88.comcast.net ([204.127.205.188]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060519150856012006earce>; Fri, 19 May 2006 15:08:56 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter88.comcast.net; Fri, 19 May 2006 15:13:28 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 15:13:28 +0000 Message-Id: <051920061513.20971.446DE09800041E9C000051EB22135396530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20971_1148051608_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] MEFA Nomination Season Extended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=-BgjiYz4-gTlrBBSizf0yGQcXzlnlJySWXldqRtR-z2iWyyfGy1e X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20971_1148051608_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rhapsody wrote: > On a more personal note, congrats to all SWG-members who were nominated!! Seconded! :) JunoMagic did this over at the There and Back Again writer's workshop, and it seemed a good idea, so being the meme-sheep that I am: If you have a story, poem, or essay nominated to the MEFAs, share a summary and url with us so that we can go and read it! And if you don't, why not share one or two of your favorites? Real-life has been busy for me, I know, and for a lot of you with school ending and summer starting up, and I miss the chatter. So let's share some ideas for great summer reading! :) (Also, we've had a lot of new folks join over the last few months. If you'd like to introduce yourselves, please feel free! Or share some of your own favorite stories.) Best regards to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20971_1148051608_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Rhapsody wrote:
> On a more personal note, congrats to all SWG-members who were nominated!!

Seconded! :)
 
JunoMagic did this over at the There and Back Again writer's workshop, and it seemed a good idea, so being the meme-sheep that I am: If you have a story, poem, or essay nominated to the MEFAs, share a summary and url with us so that we can go and read it! And if you don't, why not share one or two of your favorites?
 
Real-life has been busy for me, I know, and for a lot of you with school ending and summer starting up, and I miss the chatter. So let's share some ideas for great summer reading! :)
 
(Also, we've had a lot of new folks join over the last few months. If you'd like to introduce yourselves, please feel free! Or share some of your own favorite stories.)
 
Best regards to all,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20971_1148051608_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 468 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58550 invoked from network); 19 May 2006 19:26:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2006 19:26:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.102) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2006 19:26:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 19157 invoked from network); 19 May 2006 19:26:10 -0000 Received: from m132p014.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.184.110]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub71.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 19 May 2006 19:26:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <446E1C25.000003.02416@MARINA> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 21:27:33 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_X12JG6G0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <051920061513.20971.446DE09800041E9C000051EB22135396530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] MEFA Nomination Season Extended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=8X_joxYHgIkSeuMfvnpTsB3HHRUu1h0ScODTWFnGza9pVLOUfgOb X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_X12JG6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I actually got nominated and I was impressed. Well, let's say super surpris= ed and I feel soooooo honored to be nominated at MEFA's. It is posted here= : http://www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin/_pgg10.php3 or when you want to go to = OSA, then it is there http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story php?no=3D2270=20 So, if you go to the second area, please let me know what you think. I wou= ld like to learn more and to write better. Marina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 05/19/06 19:30:09 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] MEFA Nomination Season Extended =20 Rhapsody wrote: > On a more personal note, congrats to all SWG-members who were nominated!= ! Seconded! :) =20 JunoMagic did this over at the There and Back Again writer's workshop, and= it seemed a good idea, so being the meme-sheep that I am: If you have a st= ory, poem, or essay nominated to the MEFAs, share a summary and url with us= so that we can go and read it! And if you don't, why not share one or two = of your favorites? =20 Real-life has been busy for me, I know, and for a lot of you with school e= nding and summer starting up, and I miss the chatter. So let's share some i= deas for great summer reading! :) =20 (Also, we've had a lot of new folks join over the last few months. If you'= d like to introduce yourselves, please feel free! Or share some of your own= favorite stories.) =20 Best regards to all, Dawn Felagund =20 -- ~oOo~=20 Dawn Felagund=20 Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund=20 Are you a relentless First-Ager?=20 Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.=20 ~oOo~ SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative w= riting program=20 Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and = fantasy=20 YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS=20 Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 --------------Boundary-00=_X12JG6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
I actually got nominated and I was impressed. Well, let's say super= surprised and I feel soooooo honored to be nominated at MEFA's.  It i= s posted here: h= ttp://www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin/_pgg10.php3 or when you want to = go to OSA, then it is there http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2270 = ;
 
So, if you go to the second area, please let= me know what you think. I would like to learn more and to write better.
 
Marina
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date:= 05/19/06 19:30:09
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] MEFA N= omination Season Extended
 
Rhapsody wrote= :
> On a more personal note, congrats to all SWG-members who = were nominated!!

Seconded! :)
 
JunoMagic= did this over at the There and Back Again writer's workshop, and it seemed=  a good idea, so being the meme-sheep that I am: If you have a story, = poem, or essay nominated to the MEFAs, share a summary and url with us so t= hat we can go and read it! And if you don't, why not share one or two of yo= ur favorites?
 
Real-life has been busy for me, = I know, and for a lot of you with school ending and summer starting up, and= I miss the chatter. So let's share some ideas for great summer reading! :)=
 
(Also, we've had a lot of new folks join over= the last few months. If you'd like to introduce yourselves, please feel fr= ee! Or share some of your own favorite stories.)
 
Best regards to all,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read = my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?us= er=3Ddawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out t= he Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?u= ser=3Dsilwritersguild.
~oOo~
 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_X12JG6G0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 469 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladypear@blazemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59203 invoked from network); 19 May 2006 22:13:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2006 22:13:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.157) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2006 22:13:33 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.163.187.121] by n14.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2006 22:13:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2006 22:13:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2006 22:13:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 22:13:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <051920061513.20971.446DE09800041E9C000051EB22135396530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="2-2196068596-4673867467=:5" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Vana Tuivana" Subject: Re: MEFA Nomination Season Extended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253685802; y=gs8J4rvcDAiBIzj5FihSoVy_Glg1-WP7b-luLSbpB8w1WruAbsU X-Yahoo-Profile: vanatuivana --2-2196068596-4673867467=:5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: = > JunoMagic did this over at the There and Back Again writer's workshop, an= d it seemed a good idea, so being the meme-sheep that I am: If you have a s= tory, poem, or essay nominated to the MEFAs, share a summary and url with u= s so that we can go and read it! And if you don't, why not share one or two= of your favorites? > I'm so happy to have one of my poems nominated for t= he MEFAs, and since you're asking, well... :-) Conversational, of Cousins= This is a conversation, in loose = verse, between Maedhros and Fingon some time after the return from Thangoro= drim. Non-slash unless you hold it upside down and squint, and even then i= t's iffy. Rated PG-13 for the macabre subject of the discussion. --Vana --2-2196068596-4673867467=:5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote= :
 
> JunoMagic did this over at the There and Back Again wri= ter's workshop, and it seemed a good idea, so being the meme-sheep that I a= m: If you have a story, poem, or essay nominated to the MEFAs, share a summ= ary and url with us so that we can go and read it! And if you don't, why no= t share one or two of your favorites?
>

I'm so happy to have = one of my poems nominated for the MEFAs,  and since you're asking, wel= l... :-)

Conversa= tional, of Cousins
This is a conversation, in loose verse, between M= aedhros and Fingon some time after the return from Thangorodrim.  Non-= slash unless you hold it upside down and squint, and even then it's iffy.&n= bsp; Rated PG-13 for the macabre subject of the discussion.

--Vana --2-2196068596-4673867467=:5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 470 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92110 invoked from network); 19 May 2006 22:37:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2006 22:37:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2006 22:37:54 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n16.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2006 22:37:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2006 22:37:46 -0000 Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 22:37:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <446E1C25.000003.02416@MARINA> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: MEFA Nomination Season Extended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=lNsIIEbsV9EqRYB14QSY98QLL50tyKW9-Kofru9J5Gp4w7WXFxMVOV8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "MARINA" wr= ote: > > I actually got nominated and I was impressed. Well, let's say supe= r > surprised and I feel soooooo honored to be nominated at MEFA's. It is = > posted here: http://www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin/_pgg10.php3 or when > yo= u want to go to OSA, then it is there > http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/sto= ryphp?no=3D2270 > > So, if you go to the second area, please let me know = what you think. I > would like to learn more and to write better. Well hon= estly, this is one of my fav's that I nominated. It simply moves me to the= core, the way Maeglin misses his mother, his love for the city he feels :c= ) Go and read, it's such a gem of a poem. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 471 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88909 invoked from network); 19 May 2006 23:04:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2006 23:04:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2006 23:04:54 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2006 23:04:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2006 23:04:47 -0000 Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 23:04:44 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <051920061513.20971.446DE09800041E9C000051EB22135396530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: MEFA Nomination Season Extended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=VwUr0-oTfw81m44vGb8u0xsPkn58zaTn1IewvIzM0PBcZLZSqFkyty8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Rhapsody wrote: > > On a more personal note, congrats to all SWG-members = who were > > nominated!! > > Seconded! :) > > JunoMagic did this over at = the There and Back Again writer's > workshop, and it seemed a good idea, s= o being the meme-sheep that I > am: If you have a story, poem, or essay no= minated to the MEFAs, > share a summary and url with us so that we can go = and read it! And > if you don't, why not share one or two of your favorite= s? Heh... ok, I'll keep it short. Letters in the sand http://www.scribeoz= .com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2406 Story Summary: Maglor is trapped within a c= ircle regarding his fate and destiny. Requiem (WIP) http://www.scribeoz.co= m/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2646 Story Summary: Celegorm reflects on Huan's pas= sing. But so does Huan. Will both achieve redemption for their deeds? Shat= tered Twilight http://www.sweetdreamssanctuary.net/sanctuary/viewstory.php?= sid=3D229 Story Summary: Maeglin cannot let go of his muse during his final= moments. Oaths Foresworn http://www.sweetdreamssanctuary.net/sanctuary/vi= ewstory.php?sid=3D91 Story Summary: On the docks of the Mouth of Sirion, Ma= glor finds his brother Amrod injured. What transpired between them before A= mrod passed away? Autumn Hunter (yes! omg squeee!) http://www.scribeoz.com= /fanfic/story.php?no=3D2365 Story Summary: Celegorm returns home after the = autumn hunt. Written in the Starlight (co authored with Robinka, a WIP) ht= tp://www.sweetdreamssanctuary.net/sanctuary/viewstory.php?sid=3D205&warning= =3DR Story Summary: Thus ended Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest= in skill of all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days= , at the hand of him whom he most loved. Or did he not? What would have hap= pened if, by a slight change of fate, Beleg Strongbow survived? This story = stars the Feanorians (we so lovingly call them the magnificent seven), Gwin= dor, Maeglin, Turin, Nellas, Beleg, Mablung, Melian and Thingol. So far....= currently everyone is in Menegroth and or male reviewers have commentend w= hat will happen now that we threw in a pinless grenade... > Real-life has = been busy for me, I know, and for a lot of you with > school ending and su= mmer starting up, and I miss the chatter. So > let's share some ideas for = great summer reading! :) Hmm I've been doing loads for the MEFA's, am work= ing on a romance story and Written in the Starlight and I have some more bu= nnies gnawing (a hell of a bunny for digdigil). And a young baby and.... I = need more hours in a day. > (Also, we've had a lot of new folks join over= the last few months. > If you'd like to introduce yourselves, please feel= free! Or share > some of your own favorite stories.) Well my favs that c= ome to me now: Another Man's cage - Dawn, A song on the wind - digdigil, Th= e true meaning of Sport (this is a must read, especially when you had a bad= day) - Aearwen, Alone at home...or...Disaster will strike - Aearwen (the l= ast line is just... excellent!), A Tale of Feanor: A Light in the Darkness = - Digdigil, Little Stars - Spaceweavil, Son of Finw=EB - Minuialeth, Raven= Hair and Silver Eyes - Ellie, The First Age of the Sun: Triumph - Inglor, = House of Finw=EB - Ghettoelleth, Voices on the Wind - Phyncke, The Gift - D= awn, Stigmas - Robinka.... and many many more. I read so many stories... *s= ighs* Whoops you said two... Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 472 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78385 invoked from network); 20 May 2006 04:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 May 2006 04:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc14.comcast.net) (63.240.77.84) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2006 04:17:28 -0000 Received: from smailcenter69.comcast.net ([204.127.205.169]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2006052002314301400knp78e>; Sat, 20 May 2006 02:31:43 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter69.comcast.net; Sat, 20 May 2006 02:31:42 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 02:31:42 +0000 Message-Id: <052020060231.19640.446E7F8E0009A12A00004CB822028887440B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: MEFA Nomination Season Extended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=cYLz2YNFXcpx32QsInDyJ9lEs6dNSS4X7nusNTZop5O0qqMz2fEC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund I wrote: > JunoMagic did this over at the There and Back Again writer's > workshop, and it seemed a good idea, so being the meme-sheep that I > am: If you have a story, poem, or essay nominated to the MEFAs, > share a summary and url with us so that we can go and read it! And > if you don't, why not share one or two of your favorites? And then I replied to my own post (since I'd be setting a poor example otherwise :^P): My stories nominated (with sincerest gratitude to the nominators): "Another Man's Cage" An ordinary year in the life of Feanaro's young family begins to reveal the conflicts and motivations that will shape their later tragic history. (This story is rated ADULT for sexuality, violence, mature themes...pretty much everything. And for being a ginormously long novel with exactly a year's worth of chapters...ai....) http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/109473.html "The Gift" On the journey of the exiled Noldor to Middle-earth, Celegorm learns the special meaning of gifts from his year-old nephew Celebrimbor. http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/72312.html "Return to Me" Finarfin is summoned to the Halls of Mandos to assist in the first re-embodiment of one of the Exiles: his son Finrod Felagund. His unexpected reunion with his son leads him to question the conflicting roles of father, hero, and king. (This story is rated ADULT for scary themes, some blood and gore, and mild sexuality.) http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/67397.html "Paper" Curufin--the favorite son of Feanor--finds himself a stranger in his huge family, often at odds with his envious brothers. Through the magic of his imagination, he discovers the freedom of fantasy. http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/56308.html Remember, even if you're not participating in this year's MEFAs, to suggest to us a few of your favorite of your stories (or someone else's!) Thanks to all who have done so already...my summer reading list has grown already. ;) Best regards, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 473 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 444 invoked from network); 20 May 2006 19:35:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 May 2006 19:35:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.89) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2006 19:35:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 14608 invoked from network); 20 May 2006 19:35:44 -0000 Received: from m092p014.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.179.110]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub74.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 May 2006 19:35:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <446F6FE1.000051.03184@MARINA> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 21:37:05 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_T5XKM5C5BHK000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <052020060231.19640.446E7F8E0009A12A00004CB822028887440B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: MEFA Nomination Season Extended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=p6-NqE7nckhbNNSUQJ4sSYh_2RMadyBmn5cYuXj1eW7gNRHx_JH9 X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_T5XKM5C5BHK000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am going to print that out and on monday....I will have a nice lunch brea= k :) MArina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 05/20/06 06:17:37 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: MEFA Nomination Season Extende= d =20 I wrote: > JunoMagic did this over at the There and Back Again writer's > workshop, and it seemed a good idea, so being the meme-sheep that I > am: If you have a story, poem, or essay nominated to the MEFAs, > share a summary and url with us so that we can go and read it! And > if you don't, why not share one or two of your favorites? =20 And then I replied to my own post (since I'd be setting a poor example oth= erwise :^P): =20 My --------------Boundary-00=_T5XKM5C5BHK000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
I am going to print that out and on monday....I will have a nice lunch b= reak :)
MArina 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
=
Date: 05/20/06 06:17:37
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: MEFA= Nomination Season Extended
 
I wrote:
> JunoMagic did this over at the There and Back Again writer's
> workshop, and it seemed a good idea, so being the meme-sheep= that I
> am: If you have a story, poem, or essay nominated t= o the MEFAs,
> share a summary and url with us so that we can= go and read it! And
> if you don't, why not share one or two= of your favorites?
 
And then I replied to my o= wn post (since I'd be setting a poor example otherwise :^P):
&nb= sp;
My
=
<= /TD>
<= A href=3D"http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=3D96917">3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_T5XKM5C5BHK000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 474 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82278 invoked from network); 20 May 2006 19:37:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 May 2006 19:37:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.113) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2006 19:37:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 21249 invoked from network); 20 May 2006 19:37:06 -0000 Received: from m092p014.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.179.110]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub79.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 May 2006 19:37:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <446F7034.000053.03184@MARINA> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 21:38:28 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_48XKCRK5BHK000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: MEFA Nomination Season Extended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=QNKDkWG-NbCu6OjKf9UsARUtPg4wky0pN5T710YDVL252qdexE_O X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_48XKCRK5BHK000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I remember reading both and I was so impressed. I would love to see them no= minated... MArina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: rhapsody_the_bard Date: 05/20/06 01:05:00 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: MEFA Nomination Season Extended =20 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > > Rhapsody wrote: > > On a more personal note, congrats to all SWG-members who were > > nominated!! > > Seconded! :) > > JunoMagic did this over at the There and Back Again writer's > workshop, and it seemed a good idea, so being the meme-sheep that I > am: If you have a story, poem, or essay nominated to the MEFAs, > share a summary and url with us so that we can go and read it! And > if you don't, why not share one or two of your favorites? =20 Heh... ok, I'll keep it short. =20 Letters in the sand http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2406 Story Summary: Maglor is trapped within a circle regarding his fate and destiny. =20 Requiem (WIP) http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2646 Story Summary: Celegorm reflects on Huan's passing. But so does Huan. Will both achieve redemption for their deeds? =20 Shattered Twilight http://www.sweetdreamssanctuary.net/sanctuary/viewstory.php?sid=3D229 Story Summary: Maeglin cannot let go of his muse during his final moments. =20 Oaths Foresworn http://www.sweetdreamssanctuary.net/sanctuary/viewstory.php?sid=3D91 Story Summary: On the docks of the Mouth of Sirion, Maglor finds his brother Amrod injured. What transpired between them before Amrod passed away? =20 Autumn Hunter (yes! omg squeee!) http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2365 Story Summary: Celegorm returns home after the autumn hunt. =20 Written in the Starlight (co authored with Robinka, a WIP) http://www.sweetdreamssanctuary.net/sanctuary/viewstory php?sid=3D205&warn= ing=3DR Story Summary: Thus ended Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days, at the hand of him whom he most loved. Or did he not? What would have happened if, by a slight change of fate, Beleg Strongbow survived? This story stars the Feanorians (we so lovingly call them the magnificent seven), Gwindor, Maeglin, Turin, Nellas, Beleg, Mablung, Melian and Thingol. So far.... currently everyone is in Menegroth and or male reviewers have commentend what will happen now that we threw in a pinless grenade... =20 > Real-life has been busy for me, I know, and for a lot of you with > school ending and summer starting up, and I miss the chatter. So > let's share some ideas for great summer reading! :) =20 Hmm I've been doing loads for the MEFA's, am working on a romance story and Written in the Starlight and I have some more bunnies gnawing (a hell of a bunny for digdigil). And a young baby and.... I need more hours in a day. =20 > (Also, we've had a lot of new folks join over the last few months. > If you'd like to introduce yourselves, please feel free! Or share > some of your own favorite stories.) =20 Well my favs that come to me now: Another Man's cage - Dawn, A song on the wind - digdigil, The true meaning of Sport (this is a must read, especially when you had a bad day) - Aearwen, Alone at home...or...Disaster will strike - Aearwen (the last line is just... excellent!), A Tale of Feanor: A Light in the Darkness - Digdigil, Little Stars - Spaceweavil, Son of Finw=EB - Minuialeth, Raven Hair and Silver Eyes - Ellie, The First Age of the Sun: Triumph - Inglor, House of Finw=EB - Ghettoelleth, Voices on the Wind - Phyncke, The Gift - Dawn, Stigmas - Robinka.... and many many more. I read so many stories... *sighs* Whoops you said two... =20 Rhapsody =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/_nkqlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_48XKCRK5BHK000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I remember reading both and I was so impressed. I would love to see= them nominated...
MArina 
 
-------Original Message-------
=  
Date:<= /I> 05/20/06 01:05:00
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: MEFA No= mination Season Extended
 
--- In SilmarillionWritersGu= ild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote:
>
> Rhapsody wrote:
> > On a more personal note, congrat= s to all SWG-members who were
> > nominated!!
&= gt;
> Seconded! :)
>
> JunoMagic = did this over at the There and Back Again writer's
> workshop= , and it seemed a good idea, so being the meme-sheep that I
>= am: If you have a story, poem, or essay nominated to the MEFAs,
> share a summary and url with us so that we can go and read it! And
> if you don't, why not share one or two of your favorites?
 
Heh... ok, I'll keep it short.
 <= /DIV>
Letters in the sand
Story Summary:
Maglor is trapped within a= circle regarding his fate and destiny.
 
Requie= m (WIP)
= Story Summary:
Celegorm reflects on Huan's passing. But so does = Huan. Will both
achieve redemption for their deeds?
&= nbsp;
Shattered Twilight
Story Summa= ry:
Maeglin cannot let go of his muse during his final moments.<= /DIV>
 
Oaths Foresworn
Stor= y Summary:
On the docks of the Mouth of Sirion, Maglor finds his= brother Amrod
injured. What transpired between them before Amro= d passed away?
 
Autumn Hunter (yes! omg squeee!= )
Story Su= mmary:
Celegorm returns home after the autumn hunt.
&= nbsp;
Written in the Starlight (co authored with Robinka, a WIP)=
Story Summary:=
Thus ended Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skil= l of
all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder D= ays, at the
hand of him whom he most loved. Or did he not? What = would have
happened if, by a slight change of fate, Beleg Strong= bow survived?
This story stars the Feanorians (we so lovingly ca= ll them the
magnificent seven), Gwindor, Maeglin, Turin, Nellas,= Beleg, Mablung,
Melian and Thingol. So far.... currently everyo= ne is in Menegroth and
or male reviewers have commentend what wi= ll happen now that we threw
in a pinless grenade...
&= nbsp;
> Real-life has been busy for me, I know, and for a lot= of you with
> school ending and summer starting up, and I mi= ss the chatter. So
> let's share some ideas for great summer = reading! :)
 
Hmm I've been doing loads for the = MEFA's, am working on a romance
story and Written in the Starlig= ht and I have some more bunnies
gnawing (a hell of a bunny for d= igdigil). And a young baby and.... I
need more hours in a day.
 
> (Also, we've had a lot of new folks join o= ver the last few months.
> If you'd like to introduce yoursel= ves, please feel free! Or share
> some of your own favorite s= tories.)
 
Well my favs that come to me now: Ano= ther Man's cage - Dawn, A song on
the wind - digdigil, The true = meaning of Sport (this is a must read,
especially when you had a= bad day) - Aearwen, Alone at
home...or...Disaster will strike -= Aearwen (the last line is just...
excellent!), A Tale of Feanor= : A Light in the Darkness - Digdigil,
Little Stars - Spaceweavil= , Son of Finw=EB - Minuialeth, Raven Hair and
Silver Eyes - Elli= e, The First Age of the Sun: Triumph - Inglor, House
of Finw=EB = - Ghettoelleth, Voices on the Wind - Phyncke, The Gift -
Dawn, S= tigmas - Robinka.... and many many more. I read so many
stories.= .. *sighs* Whoops you said two...
 
Rhapsody
 
 
 
 
=
 
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -----= ---------------~-->
Everything you need is one click awa= y.  Make Yahoo! your home page now.
---------------------------= -----------------------------------------~->
 
 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
<*&= gt; To visit your group on the web, go to:
 
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
=
 
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups i= s subject to:
 =
 
 
 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_48XKCRK5BHK000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 475 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21289 invoked from network); 21 May 2006 06:50:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2006 06:50:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO qb-out-0506.google.com) (72.14.204.231) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2006 06:50:41 -0000 Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id e11so161546qbe for ; Sat, 20 May 2006 23:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.153.18 with SMTP id a18mr3635065wre; Sat, 20 May 2006 23:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?192.168.1.4? ( [72.146.132.141]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 25sm2867565wra.2006.05.20.23.50.30; Sat, 20 May 2006 23:50:31 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 02:43:00 -0400 To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <052020060231.19640.446E7F8E0009A12A00004CB822028887440B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Marta Layton Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: MEFA Nomination Season Extended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=k7zHU-pjKLK6nRc-jmUftUijpobZ4isUoNfV0RvEIxwsJnrB9eB4Bw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva On 19/5/06 10:31 pm, "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" = wrote: > I wrote: >> JunoMagic did this over at the There and Back Again w= riter's >> workshop, and it seemed a good idea, so being the meme-sheep tha= t I >> am: If you have a story, poem, or essay nominated to the MEFAs, >> s= hare a summary and url with us so that we can go and read it! And >> if you= don't, why not share one or two of your favorites? > I've had several no= minated, though most aren't Silm-oriented. First the pre-Ring War ones: Be= ware the Sea - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/bewarethesea.htm Sea-longing ta= kes many different forms. A series of drabbles featuring an elf from Alqual= onde, Maglor, Aldarion, Elrond, Legolas, and Sam. Spirit of Fire - http://= www.freewebs.com/aure/spiritoffire.htm Nerdanel muses on different types of= fire. (Drabble) Truly Exposed - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/trulyexposed= .htm Galadriel muses on rings, governance, and silver-haired lords. (Drabbl= e) Stronger Songs - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/strongersongs.htm The fir= st meeting of Tom Bombadil and Treebeard, late in the First Age. (Drabble) = Until the King Returns - http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter.cfm?= STID=3D5238 "Then Mardil could no longer restrain [E=E4rnur], and he rode w= ith a small escort of knights to the gate of Minas Morgul." But why would a= ny competent steward let a childless king confront such a dangerous enemy, = and with such a small guard? We Shall Return - http://www.freewebs.com/au= re/weshallreturn.htm The thoughts of one of the followers of Castamir's son= s, after the Kinstrife. (Drabble) And now for those involving our favourit= e LOTR characters. ;-): The Age of Men - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/thea= geofmen.htm Treebeard's rather rambling thoughts just before his last parti= ng with Merry and Pippin. Hidden Wonders - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/h= iddenwonders.htm =C9owyn explores Faramir's personal library at Emyn Arnen.= (Double Drabble) Holding the Line - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/holdingt= heline.htm Just what was Legolas thinking when he attacked that mum=E2k at = the Battle of the Pelennor Fields? 200 words; movieverse. Homecomings - ht= tp://www.freewebs.com/aure/homecomings.htm Of the Fellowship, one did not s= urvive the War of the Ring and another had no parents in Middle-earth. But = what about the remaining seven? This drabble series focuses on the thoughts= of the fathers (or foster-fathers) of Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Frodo, Sam,= Merry, and Pippin, on seeing them for the first time after the Quest. Inh= eritances - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/inheritances.htm Aragorn was servi= ng in Gondor under Denethor's father Ecthelion when Boromir was born. What = would the Heir of Isildur have thought of the child who might grow up to be= come Steward? A Lesser and Alien Race - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/aless= erandalienrace.htm The people of Gondor await the arrival of a new noblewom= an from the North. (Drabble) Make It One for Paladin - http://www.freewebs= .com/aure/makeitoneforpaladin.htm Robin Smallburrow tries to come to terms = with what he saw and did during the occupation of the Shire. Man of the No= rth - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/manofthenorth.htm Thengel decides whethe= r to accept Thorongil's service. (Drabble) A New Age - http://www.freewebs= .com/aure/anewage.htm Celeborn and Thranduil meet after the War of the Ring= . (Drabble) Object Lessons - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/objectlesson.htm= A teenage Faramir helps his brother to the Houses of Healing. (Double dra= bble) Ships Passing - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/shipspassing.htm In th= e days between the Battle of the Pelennor and the Battle of the Black Gate,= Faramir spends some time at Halbarad's bier in the Citadel The Steward's = Dream - http://www.freewebs.com/aure/thestewardsdream.htm Faramir and Borom= ir discuss their hopes for the future. (Drabble) That Immortal Sea - http= ://www.freewebs.com/aure/thatimmortalsea.htm Faramir dreams of N=FAmenor. = (Drabble) Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 476 Return-Path: X-Sender: Juno@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55785 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 19:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 19:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.175) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 19:14:15 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n8.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2006 19:14:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2006 19:14:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2006 19:14:03 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:14:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Exercise #18 - 'Original Characters' posted at 'There and Back Again' X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=199036170; y=yvSmPrMbKBCZloS61AoYasvva7kWWTq2PMVg1ra_kcJuyFxOtQ X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic Hi all, exercise #18 is posted at "There and Back Again", a writers' works= hop for Tolkien fan fiction. This month's exercise deals with original cha= racters. We want to try different methods of really 'fleshing out' our ori= ginal characters. Every member has to introduce an original character to th= e community, using either a biographical sketch, a timeline, a psychologica= l analysis or a character test. Then all members, their own original charac= ters, and all canon characters may ask that original character questions - = and they have to answer! We hope that this will not only help with writing= original characters, but that the exercise will be a lot of fun! Have a l= ook at the exercise here: http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/82= 721.html Yours JunoMagic and Aranel Took *** "There and Back Again (and = how to get there in the first place)" - a writers' workshop for Tolkien fan= fiction in LJ style: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dthere_= n_back From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 477 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21381 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 19:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 19:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.119) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 19:56:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 18373 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 19:56:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) ([172.18.5.228]) (envelope-sender ) by fallback01.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Jun 2006 19:56:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 9682 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 19:49:59 -0000 Received: from m080p006.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.177.230]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub75.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Jun 2006 19:49:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <447F4540.000001.03740@MARINA> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:51:28 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_ST57QL80000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: BA06AE75-DD5B-48C6-8FB2-26FE4293C1D2 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Exercise #18 - 'Original Characters' posted at 'There and Back Again' X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=N5kkZcIjVcrswUCB7IjpYtngYob3hvZ4Hy5jzMts69YbLIVHYKoi X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_ST57QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_ST57LVC0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_ST57LVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So, in my case...what I am planning, if I got that right and understood all= that on the post, I will take that one character, will write what Tolkien = said, but give him a life as well, right? Do we make a list, who is taking = who? So we do not end up with 24 Haldirs, 46 Legolas....19 Elrond and so on= ? If so, I would like to claim Maeglin for this event :) - did you expect an= yone else? The idea is amazing. I am totally looking forward to it. MArina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: JunoMagic Date: 06/01/06 21:16:41 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Exercise #18 - 'Original Characters' p= osted at 'There and Back Again' =20 Hi all, --------------Boundary-00=_ST57LVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
<= TABLE contentEditable=3Dtrue style=3D"SCROLLBAR-FACE-COLOR: #c6d7ff; MARGIN= : 3px; SCROLLBAR-HIGHLIGHT-COLOR: #ffffff; WIDTH: 100%; SCROLLBAR-SHADOW-CO= LOR: #ffffff; SCROLLBAR-3DLIGHT-COLOR: #7b9ed6; SCROLLBAR-ARROW-COLOR: #4a6= 184; SCROLLBAR-DARKSHADOW-COLOR: #bebebe" width=3D"100%" bgColor=3D#fff7ef>=

3D""

So, in my case...what I am planning, if I got that right and u= nderstood all that on the post, I will take that one character, will w= rite what Tolkien said, but give him a life as well, right? = Do we make a list, who is taking who? So we do not end up with 24 Hald= irs, 46 Legolas....19 Elrond and so on?
 
If so,= I would like to claim Maeglin for this event :) - did you expect anyone el= se?
 
The idea is amazing. I am totally loo= king forward to it.
 
MArina 
&n= bsp;
-------Original Message-----= --
 
From: JunoMagic
Date: 06/01/06 21:16:41
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Exercise= #18 - 'Original Characters' posted at 'There and Back Again'
<= DIV> 
Hi all,
 
<= /TABLE>

3D""

3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_ST57LVC0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_ST57QL80000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 478 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47608 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 20:39:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 20:39:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc15.comcast.net) (63.240.77.85) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 20:39:10 -0000 Received: from smailcenter68.comcast.net ([204.127.205.168]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc15) with SMTP id <200606012021370150071mfae>; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:21:37 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter68.comcast.net; Thu, 01 Jun 2006 20:21:35 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 20:21:35 +0000 Message-Id: <060120062021.4860.447F4C4F0009895C000012FC22070206530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4860_1149193295_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Exercise #18 - 'Original Characters' posted at 'There and Back Again' X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=z6e9rknNA2fZrbVZBpiZT7bFkl-M3Q083VOorKpQHmkaUR7AoVk0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4860_1149193295_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Marina Since Juno doesn't (I don't think) get emails for this list, I hope she does not mind me answering. :) The exercise as I understand it is for original characters. So Maeglin wouldn't work for this particular exercise...but his girlfriend (*cough* named Marina *cough cough*) would. ;) Or any other OC affiliated with him, certainly the OFCs from your stories. The outline for the exercise helps a lot in explaining it: http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/82721.html But it is fun, certainly! Jenni (Digdigil) and I spend a lot of hours--too many, we sometimes think--"conversing" with two of our original characters from an original fantasy universe that I created. And not only is it fun and entertaining...but it really works in helping to develop these characters! I'm thinking of participating in this one too, if I can rustle up an OC first. :) Hope this helps and best wishes to you! Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4860_1149193295_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, Marina
Since Juno doesn't (I don't think) get emails for this list, I hope she does not mind me answering. :)
 
The exercise as I understand it is for original characters. So Maeglin wouldn't work for this particular exercise...but his girlfriend (*cough* named Marina *cough cough*) would. ;) Or any other OC affiliated with him, certainly the OFCs from your stories.
 
The outline for the exercise helps a lot in explaining it:
 
But it is fun, certainly! Jenni (Digdigil) and I spend a lot of hours--too many, we sometimes think--"conversing" with two of our original characters from an original fantasy universe that I created. And not only is it fun and entertaining...but it really works in helping to develop these characters!
 
I'm thinking of participating in this one too, if I can rustle up an OC first. :)
 
Hope this helps and best wishes to you!
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4860_1149193295_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 479 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20042 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 20:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 20:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.119) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 20:57:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 25294 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 20:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) ([172.18.5.238]) (envelope-sender ) by fallback01.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Jun 2006 20:57:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 19146 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 20:53:41 -0000 Received: from m080p006.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.177.230]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub74.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Jun 2006 20:53:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <447F542D.000024.03740@MARINA> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 22:55:09 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_XR87VW72QL8000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <060120062021.4860.447F4C4F0009895C000012FC22070206530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Exercise #18 - 'Original Characters' posted at 'There and Back Again' X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=uSo5ysCnpJ1la2I6hIj2iM75o8lao5rOzXkRQjwd-9BlCTPuqC-E X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_XR87VW72QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OH, even better! I will then go now to my living room and grab Lith=F4nion on his collar, j= erk him, that naughty elf, into my office and then we see.=20 I have actually written backgrounds to ALL my OMCs and OFCs. Now, with bei= ng four days off work, I will have time to make an interview with him. I r= eally like this idea.=20 Thank you Dawn, I will contact you prior to posting offlist, for the case I do not underst= and something else :) darn language barrier! Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 06/01/06 22:39:16 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Exercise #18 - 'Original Character= s' posted at 'There and Back Again' =20 Hi, Marina Since Juno doesn't (I don't think) get emails for this list, I hope she do= es not mind me answering. :) =20 The exercise as I understand it is for original characters. So Maeglin wou= ldn't work for this particular exercise...but his girlfriend (*cough* named= Marina *cough cough*) would. ;) Or any other OC affiliated with him, certa= inly the OFCs from your stories. =20 The outline for the exercise helps a lot in explaining it: http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/82721.html =20 But it is fun, certainly! Jenni (Digdigil) and I spend a lot of hours--too= many, we sometimes think--"conversing" with two of our original characters= from an original fantasy universe that I created. And not only is it fun a= nd entertaining...but it really works in helping to develop these character= s! =20 I'm thinking of participating in this one too, if I can rustle up an OC fi= rst. :) =20 Hope this helps and best wishes to you! Dawn Felagund =20 -- ~oOo~=20 Dawn Felagund=20 Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund=20 Are you a relentless First-Ager?=20 Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.=20 ~oOo~ SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing school Creative writing course Creative w= riting program=20 Creative writing class Online creative writing course Science fiction and = fantasy=20 YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS=20 Visit your group "SilmarillionWritersGuild" on the web. =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 --------------Boundary-00=_XR87VW72QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
OH, even better!
I will then go now to my living room and gra= b Lith=F4nion on his collar, jerk him, that naughty elf, int= o my office and then we see. 
 
I have= actually written backgrounds to ALL my OMCs and OFCs. Now, with being four= days off work, I will have time to make an interview with him.&n= bsp; I really like this idea.
 
Thank you Dawn,=
I will contact you prior to posting offlist, for the case I do = not understand something else :) darn language barrier!
 
Marina 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 06/01= /06 22:39:16
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Exercise #18 - '= Original Characters' posted at 'There and Back Again'
&nbs= p;
Hi, Marina
Since Juno doesn't (I don't think) get = emails for this list, I hope she does not mind me answering. :)
=  
The exercise as I understand it is for original character= s. So Maeglin wouldn't work for this particular exercise...but his girlfrie= nd (*cough* named Marina *cough cough*) would. ;) Or any other OC affiliate= d with him, certainly the OFCs from your stories.
 
<= DIV>The outline for the exercise helps a lot in explaining it:
<= A href=3D"http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/82721.html">http://= community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/82721.html
 
But it is fun, certainly! Jenni (Digdigil) and I spend a lot of hou= rs--too many, we sometimes think--"conversing" with two of our original cha= racters from an original fantasy universe that I created. And not only is i= t fun and entertaining...but it really works in helping to develop these ch= aracters!
 
I'm thinking of participating in thi= s one too, if I can rustle up an OC first. :)
 
= Hope this helps and best wishes to you!
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Fe= lagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com= /userinfo.bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?=
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.co= m/userinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.
~oOo~
 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_XR87VW72QL8000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 480 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23320 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2006 17:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2006 17:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.200.81) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2006 17:45:39 -0000 Received: from smailcenter44.comcast.net ([204.127.205.144]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006061415360101100r8nq6e>; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:36:01 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter44.comcast.net; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:35:59 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:35:59 +0000 Message-Id: <061420061535.7668.44902CDF00020B3E00001DF422007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7668_1150299359_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Mod Change for 17 June through 25 June X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=BMSHOg_nCQTSUBuKlFN5dye9zZ11px_jkMi1Eu4DGELpbe0H4702 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7668_1150299359_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, everyone! I will be on holiday in Puerto Rice 17 June through 25 June and will not--by order of The Husband--have Internet access. During this time, Jenni (Digdigil) will be running the group in my stead. Any questions or problems that you have during that time should be directed to her. She can be reached at elennf569@rogers.com . After I return, I will be purchasing webspace for the group and starting to work on our archives and forums. Because our focus will then be shared between three places--the Yahoo group, LiveJournal, and our homepage--then I will need more help from my co-mods. Jenni will continue to be a co-mod after my return, as will Uli (ford_of_bruinen), our current co-mod. As usual, if you're more comfortable speaking to them, you may direct questions or problems to them rather than me. (Please understand that Uli is currently having Internet problems; if you try to contact her and don't get a reply, it is not rudeness on her part.) As the group continues to expand, those who are interested in helping as mods or leaders for various projects should feel free to contact me. I will provide more information on this when I return. As always, feel free to contact me for ANY reason at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or DawnFelagund on Yahoo Instant Messenger with questions, concerns, suggestions, and ideas. I will be checking my email regularly and my offline YIM messages somewhat regularly until Friday evening. To those to whom I will not speak again until my return, I send my best regards for a safe and happy June! Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7668_1150299359_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, everyone!
I will be on holiday in Puerto Rice 17 June through 25 June and will not--by order of The Husband--have Internet access. During this time, Jenni (Digdigil) will be running the group in my stead. Any questions or problems that you have during that time should be directed to her. She can be reached at elennf569@rogers.com .
 
After I return, I will be purchasing webspace for the group and starting to work on our archives and forums. Because our focus will then be shared between three places--the Yahoo group, LiveJournal, and our homepage--then I will need more help from my co-mods. Jenni will continue to be a co-mod after my return, as will Uli (ford_of_bruinen), our current co-mod. As usual, if you're more comfortable speaking to them, you may direct questions or problems to them rather than me. (Please understand that Uli is currently having Internet problems; if you try to contact her and don't get a reply, it is not rudeness on her part.)
 
As the group continues to expand, those who are interested in helping as mods or leaders for various projects should feel free to contact me. I will provide more information on this when I return.
 
As always, feel free to contact me for ANY reason at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or DawnFelagund on Yahoo Instant Messenger with questions, concerns, suggestions, and ideas. I will be checking my email regularly and my offline YIM messages somewhat regularly until Friday evening.
 
To those to whom I will not speak again until my return, I send my best regards for a safe and happy June!
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_7668_1150299359_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 481 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4575 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2006 09:33:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2006 09:33:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.183) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2006 09:33:19 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n16.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2006 09:32:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2006 09:32:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2006 09:32:53 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:32:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: MEFA 2006 author roundup X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=bPP8Xn3Gez1kBJyB3-i3lX-CDsHDEBQi4ybx9yRTtq9nVAreWgUkZTM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard (okay, the previous announcement, posted 3 days ago, disappeared into the b= lack hole named internet, so there is hoping ...) Nominations for the 2006= Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards have ended on June 15, and nominated author= s need to have all their nominated stories ready to compete by June 22. To = be ready to compete you must have done the following: 1. Complete the form= providing information about your piece at our website. 2. Email the volunt= eer assigned to you telling them you approve the nomination. Your nominati= on isn't finished until you hear back from your volunteer that everything i= s in order. I have compiled a list of authors who have been nominated but = whose stories are not quite ready to compete. Check it out at http://commu= nity.livejournal.com/mefas/10218.html If you are on this list and didn't k= now you were nominated, please contact mefasupport(at)gmail(dot)com. If you= think your nomination is finished but you are listed on this list please d= rop me a line at the same address. Thanks, Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 482 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90384 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2006 09:44:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2006 09:44:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.175) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2006 09:44:39 -0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id m3so1923959ugc for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.19.13 with SMTP id w13mr3565713ugi; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.16.19 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 10:44:32 +0100 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6918_32748864.1150537472962" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Tuxedo Elf" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] MEFA 2006 author roundup X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219404730; y=YestY9bIQXTqJAScivaRSfZkK_FpEKXjoR2o5fxPO_vcvc89HovnaA X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf ------=_Part_6918_32748864.1150537472962-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 483 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68711 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2006 09:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2006 09:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2006 09:51:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2006 09:51:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2006 09:51:14 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:51:13 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: MEFA 2006 author roundup X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=8nkGZIAZS9KCDXPPV8zI4THpLkPbpn6HuV3rxV69AUPqPbZ4-tapRYs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Tuxedo Elf" wrote: > > Hiya, > > I'm on the 'not responded' list, but I completed = the form and > emailed Radbrooks on Thursday. Another victim of the black = hole? I'd > appreciate it if someone could tell me if I need to fill out th= e > form again! No honey, you are good, I checked it this morning and you= are competing!!!!! I believe most of the SWG members that were nominated h= ave completed nominations. Your nomination is complete. But there might b= e others that haven't responded yet, so if you do know a person on the list= (for example Space Weavil hasn't replied yet or Noldo for that matter) tha= t has an incomplete nom, point them to that LJ post. Thanks!!!! Rhapsody = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 484 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65234 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2006 10:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2006 10:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.168) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2006 10:01:55 -0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id m2so1919606uge for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.19.13 with SMTP id w13mr3579201ugi; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.16.19 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:01:43 +0100 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6990_1319446.1150538503345" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Tuxedo Elf" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: MEFA 2006 author roundup X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219404730; y=HTp_Z6nLYrNlIrgqK0QfWD5qIAIjY6W90Lm5RvUk3EUbsX6z2KD6sw X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf ------=_Part_6990_1319446.1150538503345-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 485 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76767 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2006 10:11:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2006 10:11:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.170) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2006 10:11:01 -0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id u2so1875093uge for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.103.7 with SMTP id f7mr82906ugm; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.16.19 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:00:58 +0100 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6982_30960731.1150538458119" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Tuxedo Elf" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: MEFA 2006 author roundup X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219404730; y=9-Al_ypQNIMRLyEh-qkOqIGeHkFW2SONNVSfRlPUQXlR0A2FAtm6GA X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf ------=_Part_6982_30960731.1150538458119-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 486 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 319 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2006 13:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2006 13:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.177) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2006 13:35:47 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.121] by n10.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2006 13:35:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2006 13:35:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2006 13:35:34 -0000 X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47208 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2006 13:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2006 13:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.190) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 2006 13:06:26 -0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id m19so1024382nfc for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 06:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.29.19 with SMTP id g19mr5795611nfj; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.78.61]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id k24sm1397550nfc.2006.06.13.05.56.19; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 05:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <448EB600.3000207@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:56:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: 2006 MEFAs Nominations to Close Soon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=ub6e1P52JEPaH8ozbPDxiG27sx7U2AJcDKTKrqSXUx06Ithsc-0IxRo X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 01 Jul 2006 13:35:34 -0000 On behalf of Marta, I am passing on this announcement: The end of nomination season is about to close soon, so perhaps some reminders are in order. :-) First, it is coming. Nomination Season ends on June 15, one second after 23:59:59 GMT. All times are GMT and based on the official time used for the MEFA website. See "Page Served At: " at the bottom left corner of any MEFA page; this will display the official time that you displayed that page at. Make sure you get any stories you want to nominate, nominated by then. GMT probably isn't the same as your local time. It's currently 04:12:57 AM on 6/6/06. For the current time around the world please see http://www.worldtimezones.com/ . For the convenience of Americans, New York is GMT-5 hours (it's currently 11:12:57 PM on 6/5/06). Second, don't forget poetry. If you have nominations left and would like to nominate your favourite poem, please go ahead and do that. Poetry is definitely eligible. Essays and WIPs, too. Third, if you are an author who has had a story nominated, make sure that you email your author liaison to let them know you've finished the nomination form when you have done that. You can see whether your nomination is complete by logging in to http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2006/, clicking on "Browse Nominated Stories", and finding your story. If it says anything besides "Nomination Complete" and you think you've done everything you need to do, please email mefasupport@gmail.com. Nominators can also check this page to see if stories they nominated have been finalized. If you see one that hasn't and would like to offer help getting in touch with the author, please feel free to email the above email. Authors have until June 22 (one week after nominations close) to get their nominations finished. Otherwise they can't compete. If you haven't tried to nominate yet and plan to, please try sooner rather than later. If there's anything that needs fixing we want to have time to do it. :-) Please feel free to email mefasupport @ gmail.com with password requests, questions, and concerns. And I think that's about it! Happy nominating. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 487 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42734 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2006 14:51:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2006 14:51:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc14.comcast.net) (63.240.77.84) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2006 14:51:43 -0000 Received: from smailcenter44.comcast.net ([204.127.205.144]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <200607011421480140089fnoe>; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 14:21:48 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter44.comcast.net; Sat, 01 Jul 2006 14:21:46 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 14:21:46 +0000 Message-Id: <070120061421.34.44A684FA00092AAA0000002222007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_34_1151763706_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] 2006 MEFAs Nominations to Close Soon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=jEqipuBwx1eAmWXa3HPjSpmUwE558xEfIUSeZXpmllulpKtbjte6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_34_1151763706_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry, Rhapsody, that this took so long to come through. I was working on the newsletter and noticed that we had a message caught in our "spam filter." I didn't even know that we had a spam filter. Yay for informing group owners about such details. ;) Anyway, I've set our spam filter to notify me when messages get caught in it, so hopefully it won't happen again. I'm a bit baffled too about how an on-topic message from one of our members who contributes the most could ever be read as spam, but there ya go.... Hooray for Yahell. Well, I guess we get what we pay for. ;) Regards, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_34_1151763706_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: Rhapsody To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] 2006 MEFAs Nominations to Close Soon Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 13:36:16 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_34_1151763706_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_34_1151763706_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On behalf of Marta, I am passing on this announcement:

The end of nomination season is about to close soon, so
perhaps some reminders are in order. :-)

First, it is coming. Nomination Season ends on June 15, one second after
23:59:59 GMT. All times are GMT and based on the official time used for
the MEFA website. See "Page Served At: " at the bottom left corner of
any MEFA page; this will display the official time that you displayed
that page at. Make sure you get any stories you want to nominate,
nominated by then.

GMT probably isn't the same as your local time. It's currently 04:12:57
AM on 6/6/06. For the current time around the world please see
http://www.worldtimezones.com/ . For the convenience of Americans, New
York is GMT-5 hours (it's currently 11:12:57 PM on 6/5/06).

Second, don't forget poetry. If you have nominations left and would like
to nominate your favourite poem, please go ahead and do that. Poetry is
definitely eligible. Essays and WIPs, too.

Third, if you are an author who has had a story nominated, make sure
that you email your author liaison to let them know you've finished the
nomination form when you have done that. You can see whether your
nomination is complete by logging in to
http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2006/, clicking on "Browse Nominated
Stories", and finding your story. If it says anything besides
"Nomination Complete" and you think you've done everything you need to
do, please email mefasupport@gmail.com. Nominators can also check this
page to see if stories they nominated have been finalized. If you see
one that hasn't and would like to offer help getting in touch with the
author, please feel free to email the above email.

Authors have until June 22 (one week after nominations close) to get
their nominations finished. Otherwise they can't compete.

If you haven't tried to nominate yet and plan to, please try sooner
rather than later. If there's anything that needs fixing we want to have
time to do it. :-)

Please feel free to email mefasupport @ gmail.com with password
requests, questions, and concerns.

And I think that's about it! Happy nominating.

Marta

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_34_1151763706_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_34_1151763706_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 488 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 79042 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2006 16:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2006 16:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.183) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2006 16:15:52 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n16.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:14:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:14:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:14:09 -0000 Date: 2 Jul 2006 16:14:07 -0000 Message-ID: <1151856847.504.85547.w120@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the SilmarillionWritersGuild group: Which features of our website would you use? Please check all that apply; please see http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/57163.html#cutid2 for descriptions of each site feature. o story archive o discussion forum o writer's workshop o art gallery o directory of organizations o encyclopedia/resource section To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=2272089 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 489 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 90984 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2006 16:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2006 16:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2006 16:17:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:17:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:17:41 -0000 Date: 2 Jul 2006 16:17:41 -0000 Message-ID: <1151857061.110.43798.w121@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the SilmarillionWritersGuild group: Would you use the discussion forums? o I would definitely use it. o I would probably use it. o I would probably not use it. o I would definitely not use it. o I am unsure or my usage would depend on other factors, i.e. content or site regulations. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=2272093 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 490 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89395 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2006 16:17:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2006 16:17:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.172) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2006 16:17:48 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n5.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:16:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:16:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:16:56 -0000 Date: 2 Jul 2006 16:16:56 -0000 Message-ID: <1151857016.173.99748.w119@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the SilmarillionWritersGuild group: Would you use the story archive, as a reader and/or author? o I would definitely use it. o I would probably use it. o I would probably not use it. o I would definitely not use it. o I am unsure or my usage would depend on other factors, i.e. content or site regulations. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=2272092 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 491 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 98403 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2006 16:18:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2006 16:18:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.86) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2006 16:18:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:18:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:18:31 -0000 Date: 2 Jul 2006 16:18:29 -0000 Message-ID: <1151857109.181.55022.w114@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the SilmarillionWritersGuild group: Would you use the writer's workshop? o I would definitely use it. o I would probably use it. o I would probably not use it. o I would definitely not use it. o I am unsure or my usage would depend on other factors, i.e. content or site regulations. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=2272094 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 492 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 97194 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2006 16:19:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2006 16:19:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.186) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2006 16:19:16 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.121] by n19.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:19:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:19:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:19:08 -0000 Date: 2 Jul 2006 16:19:07 -0000 Message-ID: <1151857147.93.65983.w112@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the SilmarillionWritersGuild group: Would you visit the art gallery? o I would definitely use it. o I would probably use it. o I would probably not use it. o I would definitely not use it. o I am unsure or my usage would depend on other factors, i.e. content or site regulations. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=2272097 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 493 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2949 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2006 16:21:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2006 16:21:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2006 16:21:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:20:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:20:57 -0000 Date: 2 Jul 2006 16:20:56 -0000 Message-ID: <1151857256.126.42018.w116@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the SilmarillionWritersGuild group: Would you use the encyclopedia/resource section? o I would definitely use it. o I would probably use it. o I would probably not use it. o I would definitely not use it. o I am unsure or my usage would depend on other factors, i.e. content or site regulations. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=2272100 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 494 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 44628 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2006 16:20:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2006 16:20:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2006 16:20:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:19:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2006 16:19:56 -0000 Date: 2 Jul 2006 16:19:55 -0000 Message-ID: <1151857195.107.42673.w116@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the SilmarillionWritersGuild group: Would you use the directory of organizations? o I would definitely use it. o I would probably use it. o I would probably not use it. o I would definitely not use it. o I am unsure or my usage would depend on other factors, i.e. content or site regulations. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=2272099 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 495 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92516 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2006 17:20:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2006 17:20:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.200.81) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2006 17:20:44 -0000 Received: from smailcenter88.comcast.net ([204.127.205.188]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <200607021626470110064m3ke>; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 16:26:47 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter88.comcast.net; Sun, 02 Jul 2006 16:26:46 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 16:26:46 +0000 Message-Id: <070220061626.22886.44A7F3C60009FF540000596622135396530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Poll! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=F0v3KhaTZ1VaDZON5j21xCRe57w-ihzjSutwmS0Td288nKhh--k8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Greetings, everyone! As you can tell from the poll spam *winces and shakes fist and Yahell overkill* I have posted some questions that I hope will focus me in the weeks to come, as I begin to add features to our website. I would appreciate everyone's opinion on this. If you have a moment, please vote in the polls on our Yahoo homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/polls Or on LiveJournal: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/57163.html PLEASE DO NOT VOTE IN BOTH PLACES but choose which format you are most comfortable with. You must have an LJ account to vote on LJ, but the voting is not restricted to members only. In fact, if any of you know Silmarillion authors who might be interested in out site and archive once they're completed, their opinions are welcome too. And don't be afraid to be honest. I have kept all of the polls as anonymous as possible. I am not interested in who will use what but rather in devoting my energy to tasks that will be most useful to the group. If you will not use a feature, do not be afraid to say so. I will be collecting results from both places on 17 July 2006. Thanks in advance and best wishes to all! Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 496 Return-Path: X-Sender: Juno@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84893 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2006 17:35:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2006 17:35:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.187) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2006 17:35:53 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n20.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2006 17:31:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2006 17:31:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2006 17:31:49 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:31:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Exercise_#19:_'Clich=E9s'_is_posted_at_'There_and_Back_Again'?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=199036170; y=Z9DBWS9aD2iRHF__JhfdjzBcM_d1NOw7D_gvyjg3DXIWnE1fcw X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic Hi all, The new exercise of the month has been posted at the writers' work= shop "There and Back Again". This month we are working at overcoming clich= =E9s, the overuse of trite and hackneyed phrases, expressions and ideas. T= his is the exercise: # visit the Random Clich=E9 Generator: http://www.wes= tegg.com/cliche/random.cgi # generate ten random clich=E9s # use five of = the ten random clich=E9s in a way that is NOT clich=E9d, but appropriate an= d interesting in a ficlet or short story (genre is up to you: Silmarillion,= UT, HoME, Hobbit or LOTR, anything goes) # you may add a new twist to the= clich=E9s, but you may NOT change them beyond recognition # if that's too= easy for you, take the other five clich=E9s and make up completely new exp= ressions for those phrases and use those, too # please list the clich=E9s = you have used and explanations for their meaning at the end of your exercis= e Sounds like fun? Then join the LiveJournal community "There and Back Ag= ain" ( http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/profile )and jump righ= t in, with your take on how to battle clich=E9s! Yours JunoMagic & Aranel = Took *** "There and Back Again (and how to get there in the first place)"= - a writers' workshop for Tolkien fan fiction in LJ style: http://www.live= journal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dthere_n_back From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 497 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45045 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2006 16:24:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2006 16:24:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2006 16:24:33 -0000 Received: from smailcenter74.comcast.net ([204.127.205.174]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006072515374601100sm32ae>; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:37:46 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter74.comcast.net; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:37:46 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:37:46 +0000 Message-Id: <072520061537.21612.44C63AC9000EDAF80000546C22070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21612_1153841866_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: HoMe Reading and Discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=sGHoAXBonlJNot6SGyZHVsHOuGMrOQTbjxpA9VTLaG8dWMgs7Cdj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21612_1153841866_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, all! I have just finished leading a Silmarillion reading/discussion for another list, and the suggestion arose that a reading and discussion of The History of Middle-earth books would also be appreciated. Jenni and I have decided to go ahead with it. If there is an interest, we would like to also post our summaries here, for discussion on this list as well. If you're on this list, presumably you have an interest in First-Age Middle-earth, and since much of HoMe deals with The Silmarillion, it makes sense that it would be of interest to us as well. (Besides the fact that there are many, many plotbunnies in HoMe....) This is going to be a big project, and we've yet to work out the logistics completely, but we hope to start posting summaries soon! Best wishes to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21612_1153841866_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Greetings, all!
I have just finished leading a Silmarillion reading/discussion for another list, and the suggestion arose that a reading and discussion of The History of Middle-earth books would also be appreciated. Jenni and I have decided to go ahead with it. If there is an interest, we would like to also post our summaries here, for discussion on this list as well. If you're on this list, presumably you have an interest in First-Age Middle-earth, and since much of HoMe deals with The Silmarillion, it makes sense that it would be of interest to us as well. (Besides the fact that there are many, many plotbunnies in HoMe....)
 
This is going to be a big project, and we've yet to work out the logistics completely, but we hope to start posting summaries soon!
 
Best wishes to all,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21612_1153841866_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 498 Return-Path: X-Sender: alina_moi2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59947 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2006 16:51:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2006 16:51:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2006 16:51:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n16.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2006 16:50:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2006 16:50:53 -0000 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:50:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <072520061537.21612.44C63AC9000EDAF80000546C22070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Alina" Subject: Re: HoMe Reading and Discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=235462409; y=SgpmhaSOfhKlGI-E9IiYDnGfUR4Fi299OOte2zuWtBioUUJg9r-bGQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alina_moi2004 Oh, if you, Jenni and other generous members of this group have the time t= o write summaries of HoME, I would be eternally grateful. Because, no, I h= ave not read HoME. Not all of HoME. Probably only 50- 60% of it. O_O! The h= orror, I know. :) Truth be told, I couldn't make myself read the HoME part= s which show the evolution of "Lord of the Rings". The only things I've lo= oked out in those books were refferences to Glorfindel and Erestor, of cou= rse. The rest of HoME, though, and especially the parts that concern the = Noldor are well worth the read. And beware of the plot-bunny hoards runnin= g freely. So, if I could read summaries of the parts I haven't tackled my= self, I would be very, very happy and grateful. Thanks, Alina. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 499 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64717 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2006 17:42:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2006 17:42:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.122) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2006 17:42:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 79608 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Jul 2006 17:41:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20060725174153.79606.qmail@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.87.137.58] by web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:41:53 PDT Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:41:53 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2004336062-1153849313=:78304" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: HoMe Reading and Discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=Uic3da-xMBIVoRCTDviGr4JrHCkTXQIScb3rSbkvCPa8ABl8-39e4qE X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-2004336062-1153849313=:78304 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would be interested in reading summaries, but I wouldn't be able to "read along" unless there was some .pdf or something floating around somewhere. I only own HoME I and X (poor college student!). Which is another question - would we be doing all the volumes? These summaries should tell me which ones are absolute must haves, right? ;) Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. --0-2004336062-1153849313=:78304 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would be interested in reading summaries, but I wouldn't be able to "read along" unless there was some .pdf or something floating around somewhere. I only own HoME I and X (poor college student!). Which is another question - would we be doing all the volumes?

These summaries should tell me which ones are absolute must haves, right? ;)

Tarion


~T�rion

Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --0-2004336062-1153849313=:78304-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 500 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55593 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2006 18:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2006 18:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web38507.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.125.53) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2006 18:07:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 88987 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Jul 2006 18:06:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20060725180654.88985.qmail@web38507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.126.248.92] by web38507.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:06:54 PDT Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:06:54 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <072520061537.21612.44C63AC9000EDAF80000546C22070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1123179508-1153850814=:86107" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Marcela Zuffo Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] HoMe Reading and Discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=tUwIHy-Cvwz8J4RSy6wMmsgdKj9P5MP3A9m8yfkXzAVtkR_bpygx5KNP X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --0-1123179508-1153850814=:86107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Dawn I read your kind offer at the HASA list (is it considered bad manners to belong to two lists at the same time?). I'd love to read your summaries as I only own volumes 1 and 2, and 10, 11 and 12 and I've read them rather superficially. I'll be looking forward to reading your work Regards Angelica DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: Greetings, all! I have just finished leading a Silmarillion reading/discussion for another list, and the suggestion arose that a reading and discussion of The History of Middle-earth books would also be appreciated. Jenni and I have decided to go ahead with it. If there is an interest, we would like to also post our summaries here, for discussion on this list as well. If you're on this list, presumably you have an interest in First-Age Middle-earth, and since much of HoMe deals with The Silmarillion, it makes sense that it would be of interest to us as well. (Besides the fact that there are many, many plotbunnies in HoMe....) This is going to be a big project, and we've yet to work out the logistics completely, but we hope to start posting summaries soon! Best wishes to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. --0-1123179508-1153850814=:86107 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, Dawn
I read your kind offer at the HASA list (is it considered bad manners to belong to two lists at the same time?).
 I'd love to read your summaries as I only own volumes 1 and 2, and 10, 11 and 12 and I've read them rather superficially.
I'll be looking forward to reading your work
Regards
Angelica
 

DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote:
Greetings, all!
I have just finished leading a Silmarillion reading/discussion for another list, and the suggestion arose that a reading and discussion of The History of Middle-earth books would also be appreciated. Jenni and I have decided to go ahead with it. If there is an interest, we would like to also post our summaries here, for discussion on this list as well. If you're on this list, presumably you have an interest in First-Age Middle-earth, and since much of HoMe deals with The Silmarillion, it makes sense that it would be of interest to us as well. (Besides the fact that there are many, many plotbunnies in HoMe....)
 
This is going to be a big project, and we've yet to work out the logistics completely, but we hope to start posting summaries soon!
 
Best wishes to all,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~

Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --0-1123179508-1153850814=:86107-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 501 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35451 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2006 18:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2006 18:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc14.comcast.net) (63.240.77.84) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2006 18:31:26 -0000 Received: from smailcenter74.comcast.net ([204.127.205.174]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <20060725173942014009069ne>; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:39:42 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter74.comcast.net; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:39:41 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:39:41 +0000 Message-Id: <072520061739.21313.44C6575D000C0D910000534122070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21313_1153849181_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: HoMe Reading and Discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=oCXhGvQwZT49IsudpfnqLMQl_Tzz1nWO7WdTsCb7786b8VXsqUhC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21313_1153849181_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alina wrote: > Because, no, I have not read HoME. Not all of HoME. Probably only 50-60% of it. O_O! The horror, I know. :) I haven't read it all either! Which is part of the reason that I'm so excited about continuing to give my Sunday afternoons to writing book summaries. ;) I know myself, and I'll never read it if I don't have some motivation for doing so. I am bad with things like that. I've read the "Shibboleth of Feanor" (multiple times), LaCE, half of "Anthrabeth Finrod a Andreth," and bits and pieces of some of the others. So I am interested to read the whole thing just after having finished reading the Sil in its entirety again. > Truth be told, I couldn't make myself read the HoME parts which show the evolution of "Lord of the Rings". Because we're a Silmarillion group, I'm not going to post those here. We will be doing the whole series on another list, so they'll be available. I'm also going to convert all of my summaries to .pdf and put them on the website. I might put the LotR summaries there too, just as reference material, but I don't see the point of discussing LotR in a Sil group either! There's already plenty of LotR groups out there and not *nearly* enough love for we First (and Second) Agers. ;) Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21313_1153849181_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Alina wrote:
> Because, no, I have not read HoME. Not all of HoME. Probably only 50-60% of it. O_O! The horror, I know. :)
 
I haven't read it all either! Which is part of the reason that I'm so excited about continuing to give my Sunday afternoons to writing book summaries. ;) I know myself, and I'll never read it if I don't have some motivation for doing so. I am bad with things like that.
 
I've read the "Shibboleth of Feanor" (multiple times), LaCE, half of "Anthrabeth Finrod a Andreth," and bits and pieces of some of the others. So I am interested to read the whole thing just after having finished reading the Sil in its entirety again.
 
> Truth be told, I couldn't make myself read the HoME parts which show the evolution of "Lord of the Rings".
 
Because we're a Silmarillion group, I'm not going to post those here. We will be doing the whole series on another list, so they'll be available. I'm also going to convert all of my summaries to .pdf and put them on the website. I might put the LotR summaries there too, just as reference material, but I don't see the point of discussing LotR in a Sil group either! There's already plenty of LotR groups out there and not *nearly* enough love for we First (and Second) Agers. ;)
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_21313_1153849181_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 502 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39955 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2006 19:56:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2006 19:56:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2006 19:56:50 -0000 Received: from smailcenter74.comcast.net ([204.127.205.174]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006072518541501200t9am3e>; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:54:15 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter74.comcast.net; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:54:14 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:54:14 +0000 Message-Id: <072520061854.2342.44C668D6000D48020000092622070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_2342_1153853654_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] HoMe Reading and Discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=Ukt0C_KnpDRm4hj3W22TzbUet-Nn1pvb3n8HKyK-jSce6iWwqstB X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_2342_1153853654_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Angelica wrote: > I read your kind offer at the HASA list (is it considered bad manners to belong to two lists at the same time?). I hope not! I belong to three Yahoo groups that are Tolkien-related (and more Tolkien-related LiveJournal communities than I care to disclose! :^P) I'm glad that there seems to be an interest here as well. I know that a lot of times, HoMe enters into Silmfic because we like the HoMe version of events better (i.e. that Orodreth--not Fingon--is Gil-Galad's father) or get tidbits that didn't make it into the Sil, not to mention that some of the essays--LaCE, for example--give an idea of how Tolkien viewed the cultures of his world or their philosophies towards love, death, et cetera. So I've always wanted to read HoMe completely but never had the time, then Jenni suggested, "Why not do summaries like we've been doing for The Silmarillion?" And there you have it. A monster is born. :) I look forward to starting too. I have "Of the Rings of Power" left to do for The Silmarillion and then I suppose we'll start on HoMe! Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_2342_1153853654_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Angelica wrote:
> I read your kind offer at the HASA list (is it considered bad manners to belong to two lists at the same time?).
 
I hope not! I belong to three Yahoo groups that are Tolkien-related (and more Tolkien-related LiveJournal communities than I care to disclose! :^P)
 
I'm glad that there seems to be an interest here as well. I know that a lot of times, HoMe enters into Silmfic because we like the HoMe version of events better (i.e. that Orodreth--not Fingon--is Gil-Galad's father) or get tidbits that didn't make it into the Sil, not to mention that some of the essays--LaCE, for example--give an idea of how Tolkien viewed the cultures of his world or their philosophies towards love, death, et cetera.
 
So I've always wanted to read HoMe completely but never had the time, then Jenni suggested, "Why not do summaries like we've been doing for The Silmarillion?" And there you have it. A monster is born. :)
 
I look forward to starting too. I have "Of the Rings of Power" left to do for The Silmarillion and then I suppose we'll start on HoMe!
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_2342_1153853654_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 503 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86185 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2006 17:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jul 2006 17:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.67) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jul 2006 17:41:26 -0000 Received: from ibm60aec.bellsouth.net ([72.152.1.250]) by imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060726174124.VWKZ21715.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm60aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:41:24 -0400 Received: from jerryhycpkuq27 ([72.152.1.250]) by ibm60aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060726174124.PDJU16573.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@jerryhycpkuq27> for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:41:24 -0400 To: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:29:09 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c6aff6$b4a0f1e0$d5a4fea9@jerryhycpkuq27> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6AFD5.2D8F51E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Subject: Re: HoMe Reading and Discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=eyUxgDJvz70Vs4d9LfUAWM-xDg1xq-deHf0kt1SVDxiFdR8C744 X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6AFD5.2D8F51E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have read the elfy parts of HoME a number of times (a number which exceeds 1 and in some cases exceeds 10 ahahaha) though I do own all of the HoME books. I'm not as interested in the LOTR parts either. I'm thrilled that you will be doing the summaries of these books. I hope you will also include the (was it 2 chapters? ) Tolkien wrote of Lost Road (I think that is the title anyway). It was a sort of ancestral memory kind story dealing with Numenor and a modern day man and Earendil coming and asking the man to help out with the fight against a new kind of evil threat. It was fascinating, to me at least. I enjoyed reading as a lurker the Silmarillion stuff at the other group. Ellie ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6AFD5.2D8F51E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= link rel=3DFile-List href=3D"cid:filelist.xml@01C6AFD5.29C50370"> <= /head>

I have read th= e elfy parts of HoME a number of times (a number which exceeds 1 and in some cases exceeds 10 = ahahaha) though I do own all of the HoME books. I’m not as interested in the LOTR parts = either. I’m thrilled that you will be doing the summaries of these bo= oks. I hope you will also include the (was it 2 chapters? ) Tolkien wrote of Lost Road (I think that is the title anyway). It was a sort of ancestral memor= y kind story dealing with Numenor and a modern day man and Earendil coming = and asking the man to help out with the fight against a new kind of evil th= reat. It was fascinating, to me at least.

 

I enjoyed reading as a lurker the Silmarillion stuff at the oth= er group.

&nb= sp;

Ellie

 

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6AFD5.2D8F51E0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 504 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71631 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2006 00:50:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2006 00:50:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.150) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2006 00:50:24 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n7.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2006 00:50:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2006 00:50:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2006 00:50:20 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:50:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Question about Ungoliant X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=2Qr_K4VVe92mGYeZYrIMHXQAwmcwKf71iB1VvYMnqtbzqdm-8ro X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Does anyone know what MIGHT kill or defeat Ungoliant? I am pursuing a wild = plot bunny and need this info. Even theories of what could be deadly to her= would be good. I seem to remember that Ungoliant was from beyond the confi= nes of Arda and that even Morgoth feared her after she consumed the light o= f the two trees for she had grown to such an enormous size. Help! Ellie = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 505 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48441 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2006 01:07:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2006 01:07:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.238) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2006 01:07:27 -0000 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 36so16881wra for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.144.7 with SMTP id r7mr2628398wrd; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?192.168.1.4? ( [65.80.155.189]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 45sm6910643wri.2006.07.26.18.07.19; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44C811C2.9020904@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 21:07:14 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Macintosh/20060530) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Marta Layton Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Ungoliant X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=iQrObQUMqvkvg18HJAvJMzY0Slv-7YiB6NGleHmHYw48QhgQxw9eoA X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva ellfine2000 wrote: > > > Does anyone know what MIGHT kill or defeat Ungoliant? I am pursuing a > wild plot bunny and need this info. Even theories of what could be > deadly to her would be good. I seem to remember that Ungoliant was > from beyond the confines of Arda and that even Morgoth feared her > after she consumed the light of the two trees for she had grown to > such an enormous size. > > Help! > > Ellie > Just wild speculation here, but she seems pretty scared of light. She can swallow the silmarils because they are encased in crystal, but what about a particularly pure fire or light? Death by burning might be an appropriate weakness. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 506 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31985 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2006 02:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2006 02:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2006 02:17:31 -0000 Received: from smailcenter70.comcast.net ([204.127.205.170]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006072701150901200sj00ue>; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:15:09 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter70.comcast.net; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:15:08 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:15:08 +0000 Message-Id: <072720060115.14329.44C8139B000C3236000037F922007343640B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14329_1153962908_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Ungoliant X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=Jx2X-RdQatcE2PEy4slonIy475X2PtKQQG4SXQ1xXpR5OJUkszbB X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14329_1153962908_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ellie wrote: > Does anyone know what MIGHT kill or defeat Ungoliant? Hmm. I like Marta's answer of light or fire; most animals have a natural fear of fire. What about Shelob? I've seen the LotR movies many times but only read the book once, almost three years ago now. *hangs head in shame* In the movie, I know that she is frenzied by the light of Earendil and then stabbed in the belly. Is this the same in the book? Since Ungoliant is Shelob's mother, I would think that they have similar weaknesses, although Ungoliant is of course much larger and more powerful. Now I just had the wicked thought: If Ungoliant is Shelob's mother than who is the father? *shudders and refuses to contemplate any further* Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14329_1153962908_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: "ellfine2000" To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Ungoliant Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:51:14 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14329_1153962908_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14329_1153962908_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Does anyone know what MIGHT kill or defeat Ungoliant? I am pursuing a
wild plot bunny and need this info. Even theories of what could be
deadly to her would be good. I seem to remember that Ungoliant was
from beyond the confines of Arda and that even Morgoth feared her
after she consumed the light of the two trees for she had grown to
such an enormous size.

Help!

Ellie

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14329_1153962908_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14329_1153962908_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 507 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60631 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2006 20:57:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2006 20:57:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.72) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2006 20:57:55 -0000 Received: from ibm68aec.bellsouth.net ([67.35.10.103]) by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060727205703.QQMK20864.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm68aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:57:03 -0400 Received: from jerryhycpkuq27 ([67.35.10.103]) by ibm68aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060727205702.OIHL17714.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@jerryhycpkuq27> for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:57:02 -0400 To: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 01:14:59 -0400 Message-ID: <002101c6b072$749e4e90$d5a4fea9@jerryhycpkuq27> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01C6B050.ED8CAE90" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Subject: Re: Question about Ungoliant - Marta and Dawn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=DUNX9FwPMdFaWBRGtga50htuSj05HOCufJDOl8Z6lknNh77E2Fo X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C6B050.ED8CAE90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you very much! The light and Fire ideas are quite useful in coming up with the way to help the hero to win and defeat the darkness. Now I just need the time to write this dark, wicked mystery. Thanks! Ellie ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C6B050.ED8CAE90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =

Thank you very much! The light and Fire ideas are quite useful in coming= up with the way to help the hero to win and defeat the darkness. Now I jus= t need the time to write this dark, wicked mystery…=

 

Thanks!

Ellie

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C6B050.ED8CAE90-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 508 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57507 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2006 11:06:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2006 11:06:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.191) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2006 11:06:10 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.121] by n24.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2006 11:03:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2006 11:03:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2006 11:03:36 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 11:03:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <072520061537.21612.44C63AC9000EDAF80000546C22070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: HoMe Reading and Discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=8_ae_EUc3MQ7TsgZNaND_Oh95EyD0S5RhOmJ61BEAER-VBxEM1xaZO4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Greetings, all! > I have just finished leading a Silmarillion reading/dis= cussion for > another list, and the suggestion arose that a reading and di= scussion > of The History of Middle-earth books would also be appreciated. = > Jenni and I have decided to go ahead with it. Wow! I am happy for you t= hat it was such a success! > If there is an interest, we would like to als= o post our summaries > here, for discussion on this list as well. If you'r= e on this list, > presumably you have an interest in First-Age Middle-eart= h, and since > much of HoMe deals with The Silmarillion, it makes sense tha= t it > would be of interest to us as well. (Besides the fact that there ar= e > many, many plotbunnies in HoMe....) Well The Silmarillion is more tha= n 1st age... 2nd age and 3rd age are in the Silmarillion too (The chapter o= f the Rings of Power does narrate the Ring war in a different way), but of = course I am very fond of my Noldo elves ;) So if you only want to summarize= the parts involving the Quenta Silmarillion (which I think you mean here).= . that would be more doable. As for the plotbunnies, yes, that is why I am= a bit hesistant, because nowadays I can't seem to open any work of Tolkien= and not end up with a plotbunny or five. I'm afraid the same will happen w= ith this LOL > This is going to be a big project, and we've yet to work ou= t the > logistics completely, but we hope to start posting summaries soon! = \o/ Good luck with that. Another question I have to ask, will it also be a= t LJ? Rhapsody (wants more hours in a day) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 509 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49249 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2006 11:34:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2006 11:34:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.168) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2006 11:34:29 -0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id u40so1291006ugc for ; Tue, 01 Aug 2006 04:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.220.17 with SMTP id s17mr708992ugg; Tue, 01 Aug 2006 04:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.118.20 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Aug 2006 04:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <998429f80608010434x794ad329n668dc4f416e042ba@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 07:34:29 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <072520061537.21612.44C63AC9000EDAF80000546C22070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Marta Layton" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: HoMe Reading and Discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=xyLJWTMAJmUOF0xy-U4wfnQ-F2CWTKnXjITcoh7rGdKqXfzPEtLFoQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, > > If there is an interest, we would like to also post our summaries > > here, for discussion on this list as well. If you're on this list, > > presumably you have an interest in First-Age Middle-earth, and since > > much of HoMe deals with The Silmarillion, it makes sense that it > > would be of interest to us as well. (Besides the fact that there are > > many, many plotbunnies in HoMe....) > Am I understanding you correctly that you're only looking at doing HoMe summaries for the First Age parts of HoMe? I am thankful for that but would ask that you consider broadening it just a bit. I agree that the LOTR drafts might be a bit out of this group's interest (though I think they'd be a first-rate way of getting people talking at HA), but still there are other passages that might be of interest to people here. Like the drafts of the Akallabeth and the drafts of the appendices that have a lot of information on the line of the Dol Amroth princes (which is in turn tied in to relns of elves and men in Middle-earth, and to the history of Numenor). > > This is going to be a big project, and we've yet to work out the > > logistics completely, but we hope to start posting summaries soon! > > \o/ Good luck with that. Another question I have to ask, will it also > be at LJ? > I'd actually recommend against posting them at both places. The more places you post, the more you split up debate. I'll probably still be posting my thoughts at HA, but I'd hate to see this group's discussions split in half. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 510 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12847 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2006 14:11:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2006 14:11:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc15.comcast.net) (204.127.200.85) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2006 14:11:15 -0000 Received: from smailcenter65.comcast.net ([204.127.205.165]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc15) with SMTP id <2006080113553001500lk19de>; Tue, 1 Aug 2006 13:55:31 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter65.comcast.net; Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:55:50 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:55:50 +0000 Message-Id: <080120061355.24822.44CF5D66000AC5ED000060F622070215530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24822_1154440550_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: HoMe Reading and Discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=QZUWP1UdaR9wR2tqllJ_-Oy3L7BtoCRC0ET4FTylt70KnY1MTaHl X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24822_1154440550_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, all, Since there seems to be some question of the exact logistics of the HoMe reading, I hope to clarify some things! I apologize if the first email was a bit vague, but I'd yet to really discuss it yet with my co-conspirators, and we weren't exactly certain which groups would be interested and in what. But we've worked things out better now. :) What parts of HoMe will we be doing? On *this* list, we will be doing anything that relates to The Silmarillion. This includes First Age (and earlier), Second Age, and anything Third Age as it relates to the section "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age." The Henneth-Annun Yahoo list will be doing *all* of HoMe, including parts that pertain to LotR. Since we aren't affiliated with this group in any way, this won't affect us. Being a Silmarillion group, we won't be doing the LotR sections. Those who are interested in LotR should either join the reading at Hennth-Annun or may contact me, and I will send you the summaries as they become available. Where will the summaries be posted? Of course, they will be posted here, though we haven't decided how often we will be posting new summaries. Depending on the state of the Never-ending Project that is our website, I would either like to create a space in the forum to post and discuss them or include .pdf downloads of each summary. Which I do will depend on the interest in discussing versus simply using the summaries for research purposes. If there is an interest on LiveJournal, I certainly would not mind sharing them there as well, since the LJ community is set aside for sharing stories and research. We are still a couple weeks away at least from beginning this, so I am open to ideas and suggestions for how you all would like to handle the reading/discussion for SWG. Either post to the group or drop me a line at DawnFelagund@comcast.net! Best regards to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24822_1154440550_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Greetings, all,
Since there seems to be some question of the exact logistics of the HoMe reading, I hope to clarify some things! I apologize if the first email was a bit vague, but I'd yet to really discuss it yet with my co-conspirators, and we weren't exactly certain which groups would be interested and in what. But we've worked things out better now. :)
 
What parts of HoMe will we be doing?
On *this* list, we will be doing anything that relates to The Silmarillion. This includes First Age (and earlier), Second Age, and anything Third Age as it relates to the section "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age."
 
The Henneth-Annun Yahoo list will be doing *all* of HoMe, including parts that pertain to LotR. Since we aren't affiliated with this group in any way, this won't affect us. Being a Silmarillion group, we won't be doing the LotR sections. Those who are interested in LotR should either join the reading at Hennth-Annun or may contact me, and I will send you the summaries as they become available.
 
Where will the summaries be posted?
Of course, they will be posted here, though we haven't decided how often we will be posting new summaries. Depending on the state of the Never-ending Project that is our website, I would either like to create a space in the forum to post and discuss them or include .pdf downloads of each summary. Which I do will depend on the interest in discussing versus simply using the summaries for research purposes. If there is an interest on LiveJournal, I certainly would not mind sharing them there as well, since the LJ community is set aside for sharing stories and research.
 
We are still a couple weeks away at least from beginning this, so I am open to ideas and suggestions for how you all would like to handle the reading/discussion for SWG. Either post to the group or drop me a line at DawnFelagund@comcast.net!
Best regards to all,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24822_1154440550_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 511 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63401 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2006 14:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2006 14:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2006 14:14:25 -0000 Received: from smailcenter44.comcast.net ([204.127.205.144]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060801141333011008ji8qe>; Tue, 1 Aug 2006 14:13:33 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter44.comcast.net; Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:13:31 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:13:31 +0000 Message-Id: <080120061413.13985.44CF618A000DA89B000036A122007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13985_1154441611_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: August 2006 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=k4DWkbbbq4g273ln2UiWkPiJ92BFuZD-oaG2j4f0lePpTJ0gyqI2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13985_1154441611_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The monthly newsletter is also available in prettier format on the silwritersguild LiveJournal community. AUGUST'S CHALLENGES ***Akallab�th in August*** This month, we focus on one of the most tumultuous times in Arda's history: the Second Age and the rise and fall of N�menor. But even as N�menor was the central player during these times, the whole of Arda was affected by the events that affected the prideful and unfortunates alike of this doomed island. Any story that is or might conceivably be part of the Akallab�th is acceptable for this challenge. If it's been a while since you've read the tales of the Second Age of Arda, why not crack open this oft-neglected chapter and see if inspiration finds you? Here are a few plotbunnies that might find a home in this challenge: --Elrond and especially Elros are important players in the Second Age, and they set the stage for Tolkien's later mythology as well. But behind these mythical figures are two brothers who made the choice to be parted in life and in fate. How did the brothers make their decision and deal with being parted? Did they see each other after Elros was established as the king of N�menor? What was this visit like? --The Elves of Avall�n� lost not only allies but also friends when the N�menoreans turned against the people of the west. Follow an Elf of Tol Eress�a as he or she strikes up friendship with the new neighbors, grows accustomed to losing friends to mortality, and then loses them for good when the kings of the House of Elros rebel against the west. --Dare to step into uncomfortable shoes and ponder why the kings of N�menor chose the road that they did and followed Sauron. Ar-Pharaz�n felt doubts as he moored off the coast of Aman, so it is likely that those who came before him also felt uncertainty along their treacherous road. Did they question the justice of what they were doing? Did they ever fear the retribution that they knew would come? What were the private thoughts and counsels of Arda's most wicked kings? --What was Amandil's fate? The Silmarillion doesn't tell us what became of him or even if he was successful in his quest. Consider what might have happened: Did he make it to Aman? Speak to the Valar? Or was he lost along the way? Take your readers on a daring journey as one man dares to defy the gods to save his people. ***Hot Summer, Hot Stories*** As much of the world experiences one of the hottest summers in history, we turn up the heat in our stories for this challenge. Whether the literal heat of Glorfindel's battle with the Balrog or the figurative heat of Nerdanel and F�anor's steamy romance, this challenge asks you to create a story worthy of the most sweltering summer! ***The Quote of the Month Challenge*** The Quote of the Month challenge asks you to write based on the themes and thoughts the quote inspires or about the event in which the quote occurred. You may write in any format--poem, story, essay, or drabble--with any characters, genre, or rating. �'But be comforted; for I return to Nargothrond of the house of Finarfin, and you shall come with me, and be healed and renewed.'� -Gwindor speaks to T�rin following Beleg's death, The Silmarillion, �Of T�rin Turambar� ***Character of the Month: Elu Thingol*** This August, we honor Elw� Singollo, or Elu Thingol. We hope that this white-haired, �tallest-of-the-Elves� and ruler of Doriath, L�thien�s father�the only Elf to marry a Maia and possessor of one of the Silmarils (albeit briefly)�and reason for much of the conflict between the Sindar and the Dwarves will inspire new stories and discussions! Thingol is one of the most controvesial characters of The Silmarillion: What do *you* think of him? What did he do well and what did he do wrong? From Melian to E�l to Beren, few characters have had as many profound and ardent relationships as Elu Thingol. ***Other Ongoing Challenges*** At SWG, challenges never die. You are welcome to write for a challenge at any time. All of our past challenges have been tagged in our LJ community here: http://www.livejournal.com/community/silwritersguild/tag/challenge ***A Call for New Challenges!*** At SWG, the challenges are for members to create! If you have an idea for a challenge, would like to suggest a quote for the monthly quote challenge, or would like to see your favorite character honored as our character of the month, please do not hesitate to suggest it on-list or email Jenni, our challenge coordinator, at elennf569@rogers.com. As always, all Silmarillion writing, including challenge responses, is welcome in our LJ community. WELCOMES AND BIRTHDAYS Welcome to leadsingersrus, our newest member to join our Yahoo! group in July! Welcome also to all who have joined or are watching our LiveJournal community. No members with August birthdays have signed up to receive stories. Do you want to get stories for your birthday and other special occasions Sign up on our "Give Someone a Silmaril" database, located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/database or post your request to the list or the LiveJournal. NEWS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS ***Changes to Challenges*** Jenni (Digdigil) will now be organizing and creating our challenges. Does this mean that members no longer create the challenges? Not at all! But for the months when we receive no member input, Jenni will be the mastermind behind the month's challenges, and you should feel free to contact her with your ideas. Some of you might also have noticed that we have begun having a Character of the Month. This began when I teasingly suggested that January should be Finarfin Appreciation Month, and the idea caught on. We will feature a new character each month. As with challenges, we would love to hear which of your favorite characters you would like to see featured next! So how will we honor the Character of the Month? Feel free to drag out your old stories that feature this character or write new ones; non-fiction and essays are always welcome as well. Take the opportunity to learn something new or find fresh inspiration from a character you might not have considered before. In order to contribute an idea for the monthly challenges, the quote of the month, or the character of the month, please leave a comment to the newsletter post on LJ, post your ideas to the Yahoo! group, or email Jenni, our new challenge coordinator, at elennf569@rogers.com. ***Happy Birthday, SWG!*** As of 31 July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild is one year old! One year ago, Uli and I began pestering our friends to join our new group. In the past year, we have grown to almost forty members on our Yahoo! list and many more follow our LiveJournal; we have shared stories and wisdom, ideas and challenges; and we are in the process of getting our own website, discussion forum, writer's workshop, and story archive in an effort to provide an online home for Silmarillion enthusiasts and fan fiction authors around the world. A lot has happened in a year, and I thank you all for your help and support and look forward to a great second year! *** At any time, I encourage people--both members and non-members--to contact me with inquiries. I may be reached at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or on either of the SWG groups. Best wishes to all for a pleasant August! -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13985_1154441611_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
The monthly newsletter is also available in prettier format on the silwritersguild LiveJournal community.
 
AUGUST'S CHALLENGES
***Akallab�th in August***
This month, we focus on one of the most tumultuous times in Arda's history: the Second Age and the rise and fall of N�menor. But even as N�menor was the central player during these times, the whole of Arda was affected by the events that affected the prideful and unfortunates alike of this doomed island.
 
Any story that is or might conceivably be part of the Akallab�th is acceptable for this challenge. If it's been a while since you've read the tales of the Second Age of Arda, why not crack open this oft-neglected chapter and see if inspiration finds you? Here are a few plotbunnies that might find a home in this challenge:
 
--Elrond and especially Elros are important players in the Second Age, and they set the stage for Tolkien's later mythology as well. But behind these mythical figures are two brothers who made the choice to be parted in life and in fate. How did the brothers make their decision and deal with being parted? Did they see each other after Elros was established as the king of N�menor? What was this visit like?
--The Elves of Avall�n� lost not only allies but also friends when the N�menoreans turned against the people of the west. Follow an Elf of Tol Eress�a as he or she strikes up friendship with the new neighbors, grows accustomed to losing friends to mortality, and then loses them for good when the kings of the House of Elros rebel against the west.
--Dare to step into uncomfortable shoes and ponder why the kings of N�menor chose the road that they did and followed Sauron. Ar-Pharaz�n felt doubts as he moored off the coast of Aman, so it is likely that those who came befor e him also felt uncertainty along their treacherous road. Did they question the justice of what they were doing? Did they ever fear the retribution that they knew would come? What were the private thoughts and counsels of Arda's most wicked kings?
--What was Amandil's fate? The Silmarillion doesn't tell us what became of him or even if he was successful in his quest. Consider what might have happened: Did he make it to Aman? Speak to the Valar? Or was he lost along the way? Take your readers on a daring journey as one man dares to defy the gods to save his people.
 
***Hot Summer, Hot Stories***
As much of the world experiences one of the hottest summers in history, we turn up the heat in our stories for this challenge. Whether the literal heat of Glorfindel's battle with the Balrog or the figurative heat of Nerdanel and F�anor's steamy romance, this challenge asks you to create a story worthy of the most sweltering summer!
 
***The Quote of the Month Challenge***
The Quote of the Month challenge asks you to write based on the themes and thoughts the quote inspires or about the event in which the quote occurred. You may write in any format--poem, story, essay, or drabble--with any characters, genre, or rating.
 
�'But be comforted; for I return to Nargothrond of the house of Finarfin, and you shall come with me, and be healed and renewed.'�
-Gwindor speaks to T�rin following Beleg's death, The Silmarillion, �Of T�rin Turambar�
 
***Character of the Month: Elu Thingol***
This August, we honor Elw� Singollo, or Elu Thingol.  We hope that this white-haired, �tallest-of-the-Elves� and ruler of Doriath, L�thien�s father�the only Elf to marry a Maia and possessor of one of the Silmarils (albeit briefly)�and reason for much of the conflict between the Sindar and the Dwarves will inspire new stories and discussions! Thingol is one of the most controvesial characters of The Silmarillion: What do *you* think of him? What did he do well and what did he do wrong? From Melian to E�l to Beren, few characters have had as many profound and ardent relationships as Elu Thingol.
 
***Other Ongoing Challenges***
At SWG, challenges never die. You are welcome to write for a challenge at any time. All of our past challenges have been tagged in our LJ community here:
 
***A Call for New Challenges!***
At SWG, the challenges are for members to create! If you have an idea for a challenge, would like to suggest a quote for the monthly quote challenge, or would like to see your favorite character honored as our character of the month, please do not hesitate to suggest it on-list or email Jenni, our challenge coordinator, at elennf569@rogers.com.
 
As always, all Silmarillion writing, including challenge responses, is welcome in our LJ community.
 
WELCOMES AND BIRTHDAYS
Welcome to leadsingersrus, our newest member to join our Yahoo! group in July! Welcome also to all who have joined or are watching our LiveJournal community.
 
No members with August birthdays have signed up to receive stories.
 
Do you want to get stories for your birthday and other special occasions Sign up on our "Give Someone a Silmaril" database, located  at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/database or post your request to the list or the LiveJournal.
 
NEWS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS
***Changes to Challenges***
Jenni (Digdigil) will now be organizing and creating our challenges. Does this mean that members no longer create the challenges? Not at all! But for the months when we receive no member input, Jenni will be the mastermind behind the month's challenges, and you should feel free to contact her with your ideas.
 
Some of you might also have noticed that we have begun having a Character of the Month. This began when I teasingly suggested that January should be Finarfin Appreciation Month, and the idea caught on. We will feature a new character each month. As with challenges, we would love to hear which of your favorite characters you would like to see featured next!
 
So how will we honor the Character of the Month? Feel free to drag out your old stories that feature this character or write new ones; non-fiction and essays are always welcome as well. Take the opportunity to learn something new or find fresh inspiration from a character you might not have considered before.
 
In order to contribute an idea for the monthly challenges, the quote of the month, or the character of the month, please leave a comment to the newsletter post on LJ, post your ideas to the Yahoo! group, or email Jenni, our new challenge coordinator, at elennf569@rogers.com.
 
***Happy Birthday, SWG!***
As of 31 July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild is one year old! One year ago, Uli and I began pestering our friends to join our new group. In the past year, we have grown to almost forty members on our Yahoo! list and many more follow our LiveJournal; we have shared stories and wisdom, ideas and challenges; and we are in the process of getting our own website, discussion forum, writer's workshop, and story archive in an effort to provide an online home for Silmarillion enthusiasts and fan fiction authors around the world. A lot has happened in a year, and I thank you all for your help and support and look forward to a great second year!
 
***
At any time, I encourage people--both members and non-members--to contact me with inquiries. I may be reached at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or on either of the SWG groups.
 
Best wishes to all for a pleasant August!
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_13985_1154441611_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 512 Return-Path: X-Sender: wolfwindha@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58478 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2006 19:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2006 19:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.184) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2006 19:11:53 -0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l35so422797nfa for ; Sat, 05 Aug 2006 12:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.21.8 with SMTP id y8mr6842079nfi; Sat, 05 Aug 2006 12:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.48.245.4 with HTTP; Sat, 5 Aug 2006 12:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1ca65e040608051211x6fd6f21dm97c67921f2665368@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 12:11:50 -0700 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Wolfwind Subject: A Bientot X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=f2dtDqF91-3wrQrkmBkMVomZMe4vXeTSWMFJhXFti5XNGpYyIxluXEM X-Yahoo-Profile: bookwormauthor I know I've just recently joined this group, but I'm leaving already. Luckily, it should be temporary. I'm serving a mission for my church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) for the next year and a half. I'll be in Madagascar, without the internet. I'll miss the Silm discussions and plotbunnies I've gotten from you all, but I'll be back in February 2008, excited to see what's been done in that time. (You will have the website done, right Dawn? :-P) Thank you all for the fun I've had! ~Wolfwind (Apologies to those who see multiple copies of this notice, since I'm posting them to all the lists I'm on) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 513 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladypear@blazemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68158 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2006 02:53:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Aug 2006 02:53:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Aug 2006 02:53:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Aug 2006 02:50:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Aug 2006 02:50:35 -0000 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 02:50:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Vana Tuivana" Subject: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253685802; y=_ERVFcVVOOJDrz768bMLcxnOHryKQy9bXmra-KISQhrYvU-wDQw X-Yahoo-Profile: vanatuivana Um. This may be a really stupid and obvious question. But I have to ask i= t or risk being wrong on the details in a fic, which would be far worse, IM= O. After the Hiding of Valinor at the end of the Second Age, in which the = Undying Lands were taken away from Middle-earth proper, how was Valinor lit= ? Where is Valinor, actually, in the grand scheme of things? Does light f= rom the Sun reach the undying lands, and if so, would the days be the same = length as on M-E, or would they be on opposite day/night schedules? What a= bout the moon? It seems to me that if Valinor is truly in a different plac= e, then the normal rules of sun/moon and day/night wouldn't apply, and they= 'd have to either have some other system or live in perpetual darkness, whi= ch doesn't seem likely. So how does it work? I've wracked my brains and c= an't recall any solutions to this problem... if anyone has any thoughts or = ideas on the matter, I'd *really* appreciate knowing them. Thanks! --Vana = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 514 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56536 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2006 17:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Aug 2006 17:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.65) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Aug 2006 17:05:15 -0000 Received: from ibm57aec.bellsouth.net ([67.35.10.103]) by imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060813170510.YLH12386.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm57aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:05:10 -0400 Received: from jerryhycpkuq27 ([67.35.10.103]) by ibm57aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060813170509.ZIWW29821.ibm57aec.bellsouth.net@jerryhycpkuq27> for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:05:09 -0400 To: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 04:51:56 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c6beb5$be89fcb0$d5a4fea9@jerryhycpkuq27> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6BE94.37785CB0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Subject: Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=HKZHvZWvLMHLZ9NUm6NCr1CAgUoKYMHN0S4QYV2VnSUM-X1uEGs X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6BE94.37785CB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Valinor would have the sun and the moon as Middle-earth does. Valinor is just "removed from the circles of the world" but still a part of Arda. I would think that their days and nights would be the same as ours. My own theory is that Valinor simply exists in another dimension sort of "overlaid" on the "real" world of Arda, but still a part of Arda since Manwe is the King of Arda and the elves fates are tied to Arda's fate. I think that a doorway is opened (the Straight Road) for elvish ships to pass through and occasionally a hapless mortal sailor may partially pass through it get to catch glimpses of Valinor while lost at sea (isn't that in the Silmarillion?). Since none of this is really explored in HoME or the Silmarillion, you are most likely free to use your own interpretation. I have given you mine. Anybody else out there have an opinion? Ellie ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6BE94.37785CB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= link rel=3DFile-List href=3D"cid:filelist.xml@01C6BE94.33B7AB30">
<= p class=3DMsoNormal>Valinor would have the sun and the moon as Middle-= earth does. Valinor is just “removed from the circles of the world= 221; but still a part of Arda. I would think that their days and nights wou= ld be the same as ours. My own theory is that Valinor simply exists in anot= her dimension sort of “overlaid” on the “real” worl= d of Arda, but still a part of Arda since Manwe is the King of Arda and the= elves fates are tied to Arda’s fate. I think that a doorway is opene= d (the Straight Road<= /font>) for elvish ships to pass through and= occasionally a hapless mortal sailor may partially pass through it get to = catch glimpses of Valinor while lost at sea (isn’t that in the Silmar= illion?). Since none of this is really explored in HoME or the Silmarillion= , you are most likely free to use your own interpretation. I have given you= mine.

 =

= Anybody else out there = have an opinion?

 

Ellie

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6BE94.37785CB0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 515 Return-Path: X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84633 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2006 21:16:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Aug 2006 21:16:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc1-s22.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.94) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Aug 2006 21:16:11 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.51.14]) by bay0-omc1-s22.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 13 Aug 2006 14:14:20 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 Aug 2006 14:14:20 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.51.220 by by107fd.bay107.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 13 Aug 2006 21:14:20 GMT X-Originating-Email: [jilba25@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:14:20 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2006 21:14:20.0246 (UTC) FILETIME=[714CE760:01C6BF1D] Return-Path: jilba25@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Jillian Baade" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7317848; y=Zd0w7UCxp5UONGeWaOg1-XS-rD2RDuT0gqsAnzHCJg1Wxtw- X-Yahoo-Profile: jilba25au Indulge me for a minute...imagine Tolkien's world as real. Then, the 'entrance' to the straight road would be somewhere like the Bermuda Triangle, famed for it's weird disappearances, and those lost planes and ships would end up in Valinor. What happens to them once they are there, I don't know, but I don't believe mortals die quicker there. That's a scare tactic spread by the Valar to stop us all stampeding to Valinor for a longer life! Jillian, who is up too early today > >Valinor would have the sun and the moon as Middle-earth does. Valinor is >just "removed from the circles of the world" but still a part of Arda. I >would think that their days and nights would be the same as ours. My own >theory is that Valinor simply exists in another dimension sort of >"overlaid" on the "real" world of Arda, but still a part of Arda since >Manwe is the King of Arda and the elves fates are tied to Arda's fate. I >think that a doorway is opened (the Straight Road) for elvish ships to >pass through and occasionally a hapless mortal sailor may partially pass >through it get to catch glimpses of Valinor while lost at sea (isn't >that in the Silmarillion?). Since none of this is really explored in >HoME or the Silmarillion, you are most likely free to use your own >interpretation. I have given you mine. > >Anybody else out there have an opinion? > >Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 516 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72640 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2006 22:40:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Aug 2006 22:40:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Aug 2006 22:40:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Aug 2006 22:40:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Aug 2006 22:40:45 -0000 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:40:44 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c6beb5$be89fcb0$d5a4fea9@jerryhycpkuq27> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=xnwLhbXv3TRjLPBF81Wz9ZP8dw9ru-eKxSfGrP-cTgbqbpUYdXTnTaE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > = Valinor would have the sun and the moon as Middle-earth does. > Valinor is= just "removed from the circles of the world" but still a > part of Arda. = I would think that their days and nights would be the > same as ours. My o= wn theory is that Valinor simply exists in another > dimension sort of "ov= erlaid" on the "real" world of Arda, but still > a part of Arda since Manwe= is the King of Arda and the elves fates > are tied to Arda's fate. I thin= k that a doorway is opened (the > Straight Road) for elvish ships to pass = through and occasionally a > hapless mortal sailor may partially pass thro= ugh it get to catch > glimpses of Valinor while lost at sea (isn't that in= the > Silmarillion?). Since none of this is really explored in > HoME or = the Silmarillion, you are most likely free to use your own > interpretation= . I have given you mine. Yeps, the Silmarillion says that edain sailors o= nce a while catch a glimpse of Valinor or Tol Eressa. But they can never re= ach it. I also remember that the Silmarillion says that Arien & Tillion rep= lace the trees as in providing the lights. I think it is covered somewhere.= I need to find the exact quote on that, but it is late and I am tired, so= someone has to remind me to do this. :c) > Anybody else out there have = an opinion? Well I completely agree with you. There is a nice map in the a= tlas of Middle Earth that gives you a nice visual. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 517 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1445 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2006 01:28:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2006 01:28:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (63.240.77.83) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2006 01:28:23 -0000 Received: from smailcenter50.comcast.net ([204.127.205.150]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2006081501281301300np074e>; Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:28:13 +0000 Received: from [69.250.48.165] by smailcenter50.comcast.net; Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:28:23 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:28:23 +0000 Message-Id: <081520060128.16545.44E12336000EC1A5000040A122007511500B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16545_1155605303_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=uqM1iL_IH4asAa3GxhpvOAI5jKnV0KXB74Idd4WjlVmidEwn0Mom X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16545_1155605303_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ellie wrote: > My own theory is that Valinor simply exists in another dimension sort of �overlaid� on the �real� world of Arda, but still a part of Arda since Manwe is the King of Arda and the elves fates are tied to Arda�s fate. You put it better than I ever could have. :) That's exactly how I see it too. > I think that a doorway is opened (the Straight Road) for elvish ships to pass through and occasionally a hapless mortal sailor may partially pass through it get to catch glimpses of Valinor while lost at sea (isn�t that in the Silmarillion?). Yep. :) The last line of "The Akallabeth," one that gives me shivers (and plotbunnies): "And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the sea concerning mariners and men forlorn upon the water who, by some fate or grace or favour of the Valar, had entered in upon the Straight Way and seen the face of the world sink below them, and so had come to the lamplit quays of Avallone, or verily to the last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had looked upon the White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died." And yes, I am flinging bunnies; this month's challenge is "Akallabeth in August," after all! :^D Then Jillian wrote: > Indulge me for a minute...imagine Tolkien's world as real. Then, the 'entrance' to the straight road would be somewhere like the Bermuda Triangle, famed for it's weird disappearances, and those lost planes and ships would end up in Valinor. And so we get our "girl falls into Valinor" stories? ;) Really, this is a cool overlap of modern myth and Tolkien's myth. Oh, that I had the time to start more stories.... > What happens to them once they are there, I don't know, but I don't believe mortals die quicker there. That's a scare tactic spread by the Valar to stop us all stampeding to Valinor for a longer life! Lol! Valarin conspiracy theories, anyone? :^D Aaaand Rhapsody wrote: > I also remember that the Silmarillion says that Arien & Tillion replace the trees as in providing the lights. I think it is covered somewhere. I need to find the exact quote on that, but it is late and I am tired, so someone has to remind me to do this. :c) Since I already have my book out and my fingers are warmed up from typing out passages in various groups all night: "But the tears of Nienna availed not to heal their [the Trees'] mortal wounds; and for a long while Yavanna sang alone in the shadows. Yet even as hope failed and her song faltered, Telperion bore at last upon a leafless bough one great flower of silver, and Laurelin a single fruit of gold. "These Yavanna took; and then the Trees died, and their lifeless stems stand yet in Valinor, a memorial of vanished joy. But the flower and the fruit Yavanna gave to Aule, and Manwe hallowed them, and Aule and his people made vessels to hold them and preserve their radiance: as is said in the Narsilion, the Song of the Sun and Moon." -"Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor" Was that the quote you were thinking of? :) The "Sun and Moon" chapter is one of my favorites, so this came immediately to mind. Okay I've rambled enough. ;) Best regards to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16545_1155605303_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: To: Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:05:22 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16545_1155605303_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16545_1155605303_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Valinor would have the sun and the moon as Middle-earth does. Valinor is just “removed from the circles of the world” but still a part of Arda. I would think that their days and nights would be the same as ours. My own theory is that Valinor simply exists in another dimension sort of “overlaid” on the “real” world of Arda, but still a part of Arda since Manwe is the King of Arda and the elves fates are tied to Arda’s fate. I think that a doorway is opened (the Straight Road) for elvish ships to pass through and occasionally a hapless mortal sailor may partially pass through it get to catch glimpses of Valinor while lost at sea (isn’t that in the Silmarillion?). Since none of this is really explored in HoME or the Silmarillion, you are most likely free to use your own interpretation. I have given you mine.

 

Anybody else out there have an opinion?

 

Ellie

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16545_1155605303_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16545_1155605303_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 518 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48340 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2006 12:43:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2006 12:43:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.173) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2006 12:43:48 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n6.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2006 12:43:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2006 12:43:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2006 12:43:41 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:43:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <081520060128.16545.44E12336000EC1A5000040A122007511500B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=LZKJno9oXS9DS0GsdDwNXR_DcO_G0k4JyNLo3PQwavtmXbr_MbOIASo X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Was that the quote you were thinking of? :) The "Sun and Moon" cha= pter > is one of my favorites, so this came immediately to mind. > > Okay = I've rambled enough. ;) Best regards to all, > Dawn Felagund Yeps!!!!! Th= anks! I've been spending most of my time today finding a date when Thandrui= l sailed to Valinor and ended up with much research stating that he most li= kely never sailed to Valinor (found out about Oropher's desire to become on= e of the Silvan elves and such), well at least Tolkien never wrote that. Un= finished Tales is a dangerous book to open people! But since another theme = of this month is Second Age... Two citiations that might unleash some bunn= ies: "In the Second Age their king, Oropher [the father of Thranduil, fath= er of Legolas], had withdraw northward beyond the Gladden Fields. This he d= id to be free from the power and encroachments of the Dwarves of Moria, whi= ch had grown to be the greatest of the mansions of the Dwarves recorded in = history; and also he resented the intrusions of Celeborn and Galadriel into= L=F3rien. But as yet there was little to fear between the Greenwood and th= e Mountains and there was constant intercourse between his people and their= kin across the river, until the War of the Last Alliance.Despite the desir= e of the Silvan Elves to meddle as little as might be in the affairs of the= Noldor and Sindar, or of any other peoples, Dwarves, Men, or Orcs, Oropher= had the wisdom to foresee that peace would not return unless Sauron was ov= ercome." or "Oropher was of Sindarin origin, and no doubt Thranduil his s= on was following the example of King Thingol long before, in Doriath; thoug= h his halls were not to be compared with Menegroth. He had not the arts nor= wealth nor the aid of the Dwarves; and compared with the Elves of Doriath = his Silvan folk were rude and rustic. Oropher had come among them with only= a handful of Sindar, and they were soon merged with the Silvan Elves, adop= ting their language and taking names of Silvan form and style. This they di= d deliberately; for they (and other similar adventurers forgotten in the le= gends or only briefly named) came from Doriath after its ruin and had no de= sire to leave Middle-earth, nor to be merged with the other Sindar of Beler= iand, dominated by the Noldorin Exiles for whom the folk of Doriath had no = great love. They wished indeed to become Silvan folk and to return, as they= said, to the simple life natural to the Elves before the invitation of the= Valar had disturbed it. " Happy writings! *runs off* Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 519 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladypear@blazemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96999 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2006 22:39:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2006 22:39:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.180) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2006 22:39:33 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n13.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2006 22:37:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2006 22:37:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2006 22:37:28 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:37:27 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c6beb5$be89fcb0$d5a4fea9@jerryhycpkuq27> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Vana Tuivana" Subject: Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253685802; y=uqujcnDJ6D40Q-WH-tE0NVEuG22Y4Ka7Rqefr_t4R6QlLLCacYw X-Yahoo-Profile: vanatuivana --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > = Valinor would have the sun and the moon as Middle-earth does. Valinor is > = just "removed from the circles of the world" but still a part of Arda. I > = would think that their days and nights would be the same as ours. My own > = theory is that Valinor simply exists in another dimension sort of > "overla= id" on the "real" world of Arda, but still a part of Arda *snips* Aha. T= his is spacey stuff, alternate dimensions and the Trousers of Time and all,= but I get the gist of it. Yes to Sun and Moon in Valinor, unless I choose= for it not to be so, in which case it shall not be so. And if anyone asks= ... I'll just say "'Cos of quantum, I expect," and then it will be all sort= ed out nicely. Thanks for your thoughts, all! This helps a great deal. = :-) Vana From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 520 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97099 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2006 22:06:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Aug 2006 22:06:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.172) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 2006 22:06:46 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n5.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Aug 2006 22:05:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Aug 2006 22:05:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Aug 2006 22:05:11 -0000 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 22:05:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Voting for the MEFAs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=8h_JQz6OJO-p9BQH-L-DqfKdA40feVnPOURh_Jz_RS6uoZEVcHPgmSw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Voting for the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards is well underway, but it is n= ot too late to start. Voting is open through November 20. Write a review fo= r your favourite nominated story or author; the longer the review, the more= points you give to that story or author. You can vote for as many or as fe= w as you like, and the competition can be quite close so every vote really = could make a difference. In order to vote you will need to either be a nom= inated author or a member of the [MEFAwards] Yahoo group. If you are not ye= t a member you can join by clicking the blue button in the top of the page = at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/ . If you do not have a Yahoo ac= count please contact mefasupport(at)gmail(dot)com and I will help you get s= igned up. If you have previously logged in to either http://gabrielle.syte= s.net/MEFA2005/ or http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2006/ but have forgotten yo= ur password please email mefasupport(at)gmail(dot)com. Now, for some quick= announcements of interest to MEFA voters and authors. Remember, these date= s are based on GMT. If you are the author of a work-in-progress competing = in the MEFAs, please remember to contact mefasupport(at)gmail(dot)com if it= is completed before the end of voting on November 20. For a list of the no= minations we have listed as works-in-progress as of 8/12 please see http:/= /groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/message/7360 (Some of these authors have= already contacted us regarding their WIP.) Reviewers, please take note th= at if you have labelled one or more of your reviews as "final", you will be= unable to edit it yourself beginning September 1. If you think you will wa= nt to edit your review please change it to "draft" or "hidden" before then.= For more information please see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/m= essage/7364 The MEFAs recognizes both stories and authors. The process for= reviewing authors is similar to that for reading stories, but it is one th= at many people struggle with. I have posted an explanation of author review= s at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/message/7368 And last but ce= rtainly not least, we are discussing how to improve our nomination form at = our [mefa-discussion] Yahoo group. If you are not a member and would like t= o participate, please join by clicking the blue button in the top-right cor= ner of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mefa-discussion/ The discussion of t= he first part of our nomination form begins at http://groups.yahoo.com/gro= up/mefa-discussion/message/92 and I would appreciate any and all suggestio= ns that people have. If you have any questions or need help participating = in the award, please do not hesitate to post at our [Mefawards] Yahoo group= or by emailing me at mefasupport(at)gmail(dot)com . At your service (and = your family's), Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 521 Return-Path: X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87039 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2006 08:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2006 08:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s17.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.153) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2006 08:40:17 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.51.36]) by bay0-omc2-s17.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 21 Aug 2006 01:39:53 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 01:39:52 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.51.220 by by107fd.bay107.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:39:48 GMT X-Originating-Email: [jilba25@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <081520060128.16545.44E12336000EC1A5000040A122007511500B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 18:39:48 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2006 08:39:52.0799 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F1AA6F0:01C6C4FD] Return-Path: jilba25@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Jillian Baade" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7317848; y=F2haPug-ZiKARDq8uaeo0lCtfXwdiIV9NLTIR4p1v3D4fCsM X-Yahoo-Profile: jilba25au > >Then Jillian wrote: > > Indulge me for a minute...imagine Tolkien's world as real. Then, the >'entrance' to the straight road would be somewhere like the Bermuda >Triangle, famed for it's weird disappearances, and those lost planes and >ships would end up in Valinor. > >And so we get our "girl falls into Valinor" stories? ;) > >Really, this is a cool overlap of modern myth and Tolkien's myth. Oh, that >I had the time to start more stories.... > > > What happens to them once they are there, I don't know, but I don't >believe mortals die quicker there. That's a scare tactic spread by the >Valar to stop us all stampeding to Valinor for a longer life! > >Lol! Valarin conspiracy theories, anyone? :^D > Now, don't. I need more plot bunnies....even my giant evil!ferrets can't cope anymore. Still, I will finish a story I have half written, concerning Maeglin and a mortal girl, two more elves, and the Bermuda Triangle, this year, I hope. NO more bunnies, please.... Jillian From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 522 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64258 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2006 10:06:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2006 10:06:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2006 10:06:07 -0000 Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.568.445f1ca (40521) for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 06:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <568.445f1ca.321adf75@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 06:05:41 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1156154741" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=Ngf0IO8oMZgB2vwu2FI-zEFxl13QKkkmjjVtFhoXp0ehLpK1iLda4g_muCE -------------------------------1156154741 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/21/2006 4:40:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jilba25@hotmail.com writes: Still, I will finish a story I have half written, concerning Maeglin and a mortal girl, two more elves, and the Bermuda Triangle, this year, I hope. I certainly hope so too. Sounds like fun. Isabeau -------------------------------1156154741 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 8/21/2006 4:40:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jilba25@hotmail.com = writes:
Still, I will finish a story I ha= ve half written, concerning
Maeglin and a mortal girl, two more elve= s, and the Bermuda Triangle, this
year, I hope.
I certainly hope so too.  Sounds like fun.
=
 
Isabeau
 -------------------------------1156154741-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 523 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72027 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2006 10:08:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2006 10:08:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.173) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2006 10:08:12 -0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id m2so1622661ugc for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 03:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.244.10 with SMTP id r10mr3487437ugh; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 03:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.3 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 03:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:07:10 +0100 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_38666_5350613.1156154830596" References: <081520060128.16545.44E12336000EC1A5000040A122007511500B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Tuxedo Elf" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219404730; y=EwvDv51NQdj4uKqjkVY8WDM-_o46_lJLMPZNUQV485FnFX4kpNzxuw X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf ------=_Part_38666_5350613.1156154830596-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 524 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60537 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2006 10:10:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2006 10:10:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.169) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2006 10:10:13 -0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id u2so1692302uge for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 03:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.105.19 with SMTP id h19mr3481442ugm; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 03:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.3 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 03:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:09:10 +0100 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000001c6beb5$be89fcb0$d5a4fea9@jerryhycpkuq27> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_38690_13159410.1156154950987" References: <000001c6beb5$be89fcb0$d5a4fea9@jerryhycpkuq27> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Tuxedo Elf" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219404730; y=B0Cw9uMLtjFgui-NLO7_JMuTq3Mr_f34ae8SMBmpmAXydX5JSIrLRA X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf ------=_Part_38690_13159410.1156154950987-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 525 Return-Path: X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47774 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2006 11:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2006 11:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc3-s8.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.208) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2006 11:37:14 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.51.29]) by bay0-omc3-s8.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 21 Aug 2006 04:36:28 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 04:36:27 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.51.220 by by107fd.bay107.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:36:22 GMT X-Originating-Email: [jilba25@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <568.445f1ca.321adf75@aol.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:36:22 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2006 11:36:27.0647 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A2028F0:01C6C516] Return-Path: jilba25@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Jillian Baade" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7317848; y=Ea4rQYEQ9I3fZQvPdxTGLHrO-cViu9vTBF5HedpkJ-E3meGc X-Yahoo-Profile: jilba25au >In a message dated 8/21/2006 4:40:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >jilba25@hotmail.com writes: > >Still, I will finish a story I have half written, concerning >Maeglin and a mortal girl, two more elves, and the Bermuda Triangle, this >year, I hope. > > >I certainly hope so too. Sounds like fun. > >Isabeau That's done it. I must finish it for you, Isabeau, who has entertained us so with Hethlin's antics for what, 3 or 4 years now? Jillian From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 526 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56766 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2006 22:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2006 22:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2006 22:38:31 -0000 Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.52a.58b1371 (14501) for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 18:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <52a.58b1371.321b8fd6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 18:38:14 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1156199894" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=VBL4X4pf1pGhGiT9P2XqCTc-ERjmApW-qNgUXgYr9JlTGpUf6hDApDhh4E0 -------------------------------1156199894 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/21/2006 7:38:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jilba25@hotmail.com writes: That's done it. I must finish it for you, Isabeau, who has entertained us so with Hethlin's antics for what, 3 or 4 years now? Jillian Gosh, has it been that long? Seems like only yesterday. Oh well, I'll twist your arm any way I can! Isabeau -------------------------------1156199894 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 8/21/2006 7:38:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jilba25@hotmail.com = writes:
That's done it. I must finish it = for you, Isabeau, who has entertained us so
with Hethlin's antics fo= r what, 3 or 4 years now?

Jillian
Gosh, has it been that long?  Seems like only yesterday.=   Oh well, I'll twist your arm any way I can!
 
=
Isabeau
 -------------------------------1156199894-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 527 Return-Path: X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87966 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2006 03:47:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2006 03:47:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc1-s34.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.106) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2006 03:47:39 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.51.19]) by bay0-omc1-s34.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:41:10 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:41:10 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.51.220 by by107fd.bay107.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 03:41:06 GMT X-Originating-Email: [jilba25@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <52a.58b1371.321b8fd6@aol.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:41:06 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Aug 2006 03:41:10.0687 (UTC) FILETIME=[CF1B22F0:01C6C59C] Return-Path: jilba25@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Jillian Baade" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Valinor post-Second Age X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7317848; y=3fE9TGcCZOhWqmSS6WFGALB2VWZbGErPbHb7y7TsBoZKZS6c X-Yahoo-Profile: jilba25au >That's done it. I must finish it for you, Isabeau, who has entertained us >so >with Hethlin's antics for what, 3 or 4 years now? > >Jillian > > > >Gosh, has it been that long? Seems like only yesterday. Oh well, I'll >twist your arm any way I can! > >Isabeau My arm is officially twisted, and I'll get on to it, I promise! And yes, it has been that long... Jillian From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 528 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92733 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2006 04:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2006 04:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2006 04:29:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 04:28:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 04:28:59 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 04:28:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Aearwen_=F3_Romendor?= Subject: OT: an apology X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=U5e_R2OMbnVMlksHvjZPk-C8_FWw3DDieV5uLVKyTKuXafRR3F8L X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 My dear friends of far and distant lands! I am sorry I was lately not part= icipating in any discussions but I spent the whole summer in the US and so= mething went wrong with my email. I could read them straight on the server= but not answer and it drove me nuts. Seriously! On the second of Septemb= er Ol'Europe will have me again and after some days of jetlag I should be,= as the people say here in Texas, back in the saddle. Now while being her= e I encountered numerous health issues which you do not want to have when = being in a foreign country - sorry to the US members of the list, but as a= n Austrian America is a foreign country to me and I am the legal alien her= e :) After the long flight the veins on my right leg started to pop one a= fter the other and I spent paying an arm and a leg for treatment - gave th= em the bad leg. And as if not challenged enough with having to live vegan,= which I do not like at all (due to a hormone caused brain tumor - so I am= not allowed to eat any US beef, pork...dairy products due to the growth = hormons used in farming), I suddenly got terribly sick. Constant nausea, d= izzyness, morning sickness, lunch sickness, night sickness.....and everyth= ing on the this green planet that I could eat turned into yuck, ewww and y= ikes...I realized that I am going to bring a special gift to Austria from = my trip visiting my husband in Texas. I am due with this baby in March. S= o, I hope you all except this apology and once I am back, I will have to l= et you read a whole bunch of FA stories that the muse whispered into my ea= rs here! @Dawn, you will please help me again to upload stories...I am ob= viously not able to. Hugs to all of you! Marina BTW I got a gift from two= ladies that love my stories (even I never think I can compete with most o= f you). They got me and the muse painted by Ebe Kastein! http://www.orgsit= es.com/wa/maeglin/_pgg8.php3 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 529 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12763 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2006 10:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2006 10:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.175) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2006 10:21:55 -0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id c2so3868771ugf for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 03:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.21.11 with SMTP id y11mr4243447ugi; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 03:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.3 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 03:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:21:53 +0100 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_69678_3572511.1156242113785" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Tuxedo Elf" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: an apology X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219404730; y=Bde6S6vC9R2D11bZ_JHIl86YPDDoBv7WRb1owPoRDZxADelQxlnHbQ X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf ------=_Part_69678_3572511.1156242113785-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 530 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7748 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2006 14:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2006 14:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc15.comcast.net) (204.127.200.85) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2006 14:35:18 -0000 Received: from smailcenter75.comcast.net ([204.127.205.175]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc15) with SMTP id <20060822143408015000k7one>; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:34:08 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter75.comcast.net; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:34:27 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:34:27 +0000 Message-Id: <082220061434.9867.44EB15F30001CCF10000268B22070209530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9867_1156257267_0" X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: an apology X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=lA3RZPI43XA8ZPBD1vdADW5yzdX8E2_SzFQqALgNHFtSKIJprQge X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9867_1156257267_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Goodness, Marina! I'm so sorry to hear about your awful experiences. (But congratulations too! :^D) Whenever you're ready to upload some stories, just email me (DawnFelagund@comcast.net) or YIM me (DawnFelagund...I am *so* original!), and I'll talk you through it. There is also a posting tutorial on the userinfo page for our community if you decide to tackle it at a time when I'm not online. And maybe the lazy moderator will get off her bum and get the archive running? :^P Take care of yourself (and your imminent little one) and best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9867_1156257267_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Goodness, Marina! I'm so sorry to hear about your awful experiences. (But congratulations too! :^D)
 
Whenever you're ready to upload some stories, just email me (DawnFelagund@comcast.net) or YIM me (DawnFelagund...I am *so* original!), and I'll talk you through it. There is also a posting tutorial on the userinfo page for our community if you decide to tackle it at a time when I'm not online. And maybe the lazy moderator will get off her bum and get the archive running? :^P
 
Take care of yourself (and your imminent little one) and best wishes,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9867_1156257267_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 531 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18261 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2006 16:04:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2006 16:04:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2006 16:04:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n16.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 16:02:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 16:02:44 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:02:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Aearwen_=F3_Romendor?= Subject: Re: OT: an apology X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=yUpvzHNInEdfgeCD_wgDoLo2n0LfTiO9TKHpDZxh2Vsu_xyrgGbu X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 Yes, Tux, that is always my worst fear to get sick here and while living i= n the US, I feared it also, even we had great insurance here, but that thi= ng with copay is scary....Yes, my insurance at home will take over 100%. = Husband will be in Austria when the baby is due, but then will go back to = the US to work. I can not convince him to work in Europe :( The picture st= unned me too, when it suddely arrived. I nearly fell from the chair. My hu= sband stood next to me and got all jealous about the muse and said: I wish= you would look at me once in a while like that! Hugs Marina > > Eeep!= What a horrible thing to go through! I hope you're feeling better now! > = *Hugs you* I also hope your travel insurance covered the treatment costs..= . > one of my biggest fears about visiting the US is getting sick there. >= > Congratulations on the baby though, I hope your Husband will be in Aus= tria > by the time of the birth! > > And that pic is stunning! > > Take c= are, > Tux > > On 22/08/06, Aearwen =F3 Romendor wrote: > >= > > My dear friends of far and distant lands! > > > > I am sorry I was l= ately not participating in any discussions but I > > spent the whole summe= r in the US and something went wrong with my > > email. I could read them s= traight on the server but not answer and > > it drove me nuts. Seriously! = > > > > On the second of September Ol'Europe will have me again and after >= > some days of jetlag I should be, as the people say here in Texas, > > ba= ck in the saddle. > > > > Now while being here I encountered numerous healt= h issues which you > > do not want to have when being in a foreign country= - sorry to the > > US members of the list, but as an Austrian America is = a foreign > > country to me and I am the legal alien here :) > > > > After = the long flight the veins on my right leg started to pop one > > after the= other and I spent paying an arm and a leg for treatment - > > gave them t= he bad leg. > > > > And as if not challenged enough with having to live veg= an, which I > > do not like at all (due to a hormone caused brain tumor - = so I am > > not allowed to eat any US beef, pork...dairy products due to th= e > > growth hormons used in farming), I suddenly got terribly sick. > > Co= nstant nausea, dizzyness, morning sickness, lunch sickness, night > > sick= ness.....and everything on the this green planet that I could > > eat turne= d into yuck, ewww and yikes...I realized that I am going to > > bring a sp= ecial gift to Austria from my trip visiting my husband in > > Texas. I am = due with this baby in March. > > > > So, I hope you all except this apology= and once I am back, I will > > have to let you read a whole bunch of FA st= ories that the muse > > whispered into my ears here! > > > > @Dawn, you wil= l please help me again to upload stories...I am > > obviously not able to. = > > > > Hugs to all of you! > > > > Marina > > BTW I got a gift from two la= dies that love my stories (even I never > > think I can compete with most = of you). They got me and the muse > > painted by Ebe Kastein! http://www.o= rgsites.com/wa/maeglin/_pgg8.php3 > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 532 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81009 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2006 16:04:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2006 16:04:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.23) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2006 16:04:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 16:04:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2006 16:04:36 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:04:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <082220061434.9867.44EB15F30001CCF10000268B22070209530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Aearwen_=F3_Romendor?= Subject: Re: OT: an apology X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=huUmHdfRjDZGQKozvEBGER2svJPK6DqwPCEJvG7gn8UcF3IVodml X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 Thanks Dawn, I am always very grateful for your help! I hope to be ready in= the second half of the first September week with uploading. Need to kick = the husband real fast to beta three more chapters :) Marina > Goodness, = Marina! I'm so sorry to hear about your awful experiences. (But congratula= tions too! :^D) > > Whenever you're ready to upload some stories, just ema= il me (DawnFelagund@...) or YIM me (DawnFelagund...I am *so* original!), = and I'll talk you through it. There is also a posting tutorial on the user= info page for our community if you decide to tackle it at a time when I'm = not online. And maybe the lazy moderator will get off her bum and get the = archive running? :^P > > Take care of yourself (and your imminent little o= ne) and best wishes, > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > Read my st= ories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user= =3Ddawn_felagund > > Are you a relentless First-Ager? > Check out the Si= lmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user= =3Dsilwritersguild. > ~oOo~ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 533 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51861 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2006 21:52:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2006 21:52:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2006 21:52:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2006 21:47:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2006 21:47:54 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:47:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: OT: an apology X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=X_PxcUzK_Yt2lQNOAFK4n-8WSfbTsj2mlxjoFdgQjg2TU6oRbob4A6M X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Aearwen =F3 Romendor wrote: > > My dear friends of far and distant lands! {{{tacklehu= gs Aearwen}}}} I missed you girl! I've been ill myself the past days, but = wow you had some nasty things going on. {{{hugs}}} you more, as of Septem= ber you are back on this side of the pond \o/ :) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 534 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40451 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2006 13:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2006 13:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.189) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2006 13:21:08 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n22.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2006 13:20:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2006 13:20:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2006 13:20:48 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:20:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <080120061413.13985.44CF618A000DA89B000036A122007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Another man's cage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=xJ5ppeFAESKBeKmCF9wJBKb29Ituw3HvP1edBHV9pvOdVSiUZ3c9z_fy X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses Hi, Dawn I remember reading that you're posting your story in different pla= ces, bur I don't seem to be able to remember where (nor find the right me= ssage). Could you tell me where (and when) I can find it? Thanks a lot Ang= elica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 535 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39732 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2006 14:12:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2006 14:12:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc15.comcast.net) (63.240.77.85) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2006 14:12:17 -0000 Received: from smailcenter46.comcast.net ([204.127.205.146]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc15) with SMTP id <2006082814112501500d2tise>; Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:11:25 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter46.comcast.net; Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:11:25 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:11:25 +0000 Message-Id: <082820061411.20552.44F2F98D0007ECC90000504822007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20552_1156774285_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Another man's cage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=i6Rw0xCdwkb46hvt2GOtcNgYqhSgfhoaMM9B5pqF-H7eU6lpkHsO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20552_1156774285_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Angelica, Yes, I am posting the second draft of AMC one chapter at a time on various archives. I don't think that I ever officially SSPed it here. Bad 'gund. ;) You may find it at these archives at the moment: Tolkien Fan Fiction: http://www.tolkienfanfiction.com/Story_Read_Head.php?STid=693 fanfiction.net: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3070350/1/ Open Scrolls Archive: http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=2857 HASA (members side only; readers must be registered with the site and logged in to view the chapters): http://www.henneth-annun.net/members/stories/chapter.cfm?STID=5420 I try to post a new chapter weekly by Friday morning in each of these places, and five chapters are posted so far. Thank you for your interest! :) I hope that you enjoy reading the story as much as I enjoyed writing it. Have a nice day, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20552_1156774285_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, Angelica,
Yes, I am posting the second draft of AMC one chapter at a time on various archives. I don't think that I ever officially SSPed it here. Bad 'gund. ;)
 
You may find it at these archives at the moment:
 
 
HASA (members side only; readers must be registered with the site and logged in to view the chapters):
http://www.henneth-annun.net/members/stories/chapter.cfm?STID=5420
 
I try to post a new chapter weekly by Friday morning in each of these places, and five chapters are posted so far.
 
Thank you for your interest! :) I hope that you enjoy reading the story as much as I enjoyed writing it. Have a nice day,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20552_1156774285_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 536 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5885 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2006 17:01:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2006 17:01:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2006 17:01:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Aug 2006 17:01:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Aug 2006 17:01:41 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:01:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=yfISh9cGG1fj-AcKSx4wOkVH6xda1kgj0ms2NVp3AABjcX0plK4 X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I was wondering if anyone has any theories or knowledge on the origins of G= aladriel's vial comtaining the light of Earendil. It seems to me that the c= ontents of the vial may have come from her mirror. Was it liquid light or w= as it water containing the light? Did she use knowledge gained from Aule to= devise a way to capture light or did she learn it from Feanor perhaps? OR = did she come with it on her own? I need this information for a story I'm w= riting. Help? Anybody? Please? Pretty please with a cherry on top? Ah, I= 've got it. Pretty please with a naked son of Feanor on top? Now there's in= centive for you to answer my questions... Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 537 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13649 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2006 20:20:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2006 20:20:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2006 20:20:49 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7306D580F7 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:18:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:18:55 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1329669295.20060829221855@tlen.pl> To: ellfine2000 Resent-from: Sirielle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-Id: <20060829201856.7306D580F7@poczta.o2.pl> Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:18:56 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ckCSvgjKeI6j7jBhiDTIUEv6CZ_Zhf6be6LIAXzkMZd5hldYSfA X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Ellie, e> Help? Anybody? Please? Pretty please with a cherry on top? Ah, I've e> got it. Pretty please with a naked son of Feanor on top? Now there's e> incentive for you to answer my questions... That's very tempting, I wish I could answer and got this topping as a reward ^_^ I can only use imagination here. I guess it was the star light contained in the water from her mirror, more possible, though the liquid form of light possibility is more interesting. But she was not one of Gwaith-i-Mirdain to capture the light and close it in a bottle. So the usage of her mirror is more realistic in this case. I guess only Mirdain in ME might know a little of F�anor's secret, if they knew anything at all... Of course no one really knew the whole capturing the light of the trees recipe, that's for sure. But maybe something was passed to Curufin, who might later whisper the family secret to his son. Celebrimbor might have captured the light and transform it into liquid to present it to Galadriel - unless there are specific origins of the vial given in books, I don't remember. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 538 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32194 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2006 20:38:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2006 20:38:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2006 20:38:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Aug 2006 20:37:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Aug 2006 20:37:49 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:37:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1329669295.20060829221855@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=e2IWNOEuymDpiIn1QdVt9DOUMAV1JczgA2rVKh4ulmG7iYXvs9g X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 The story is set in the Third Age so none of the Mirdain are left. Weren't = they all killed with Celebrimbor? That is an interesting notion that Celeb= rimbor may have held the secret and passed it on. Any other thoughts, anyo= ne? Ellie > > Ai Ellie, > > > e> Help? Anybody? Please? Pretty please= with a cherry on top? Ah, I've > e> got it. Pretty please with a naked so= n of Feanor on top? Now there's > e> incentive for you to answer my questi= ons... > > That's very tempting, I wish I could answer and got this toppin= g as a reward ^_^ > > I can only use imagination here. I guess it wa= s the star light contained in the water from her > mirror, more possible, = though the liquid form of light possibility is more interesting. But she wa= s > not one of Gwaith-i-Mirdain to capture the light and close it in = a bottle. So the usage of her > mirror is more realistic in this case. > >= I guess only Mirdain in ME might know a little of F=EBanor's secret, if = they knew anything at all... > Of course no one really knew the whole captu= ring the light of the trees recipe, that's for sure. But > maybe something= was passed to Curufin, who might later whisper the family secret to= his son. > Celebrimbor might have captured the light and transform it int= o liquid to present it to Galadriel - > unless there are specific origins o= f the vial given in books, I don't remember. > > > > > Suilad, > Sirie= lle > > sirielle@... > http://www.isle.px.pl > h= ttp://sirielle.deviantart.com/ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 539 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81265 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2006 22:28:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2006 22:28:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2006 22:28:46 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95C627480BB for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:28:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:28:13 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <623330246.20060830002813@tlen.pl> To: ellfine2000 In-Reply-To: References: <1329669295.20060829221855@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=z8REkN1TZ7qzP2XD68E_PvYm0HatIDEyQH9p3G2hNDsUpcF6bKw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle e> The story is set in the Third Age so none of the Mirdain are left. Weren't they all killed with e> Celebrimbor? All depends what do we know about the vial origins, how old it is. It might have been made in the II Age as well, why not? For sure it can't be older than Earendil appearing on the night sky ;) Celebrimbor was killed for sure, Mirdain's abode destroyed, but I am not sure if all of them were killed. e> That is an interesting notion that Celebrimbor may have held the e> secret and passed it on. I'm sure he would not passed such secret; if so only to his heir, someone who he could trust. Galadriel rejected his feelings (in one version of her history), so I don't think he would be inclined to share any secret knowledge with her. She got the ring, that's enough. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 540 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2113 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2006 22:45:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2006 22:45:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2006 22:45:01 -0000 Received: from smailcenter59.comcast.net ([204.127.205.159]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060829213656011008d400e>; Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:36:56 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by smailcenter59.comcast.net; Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:36:54 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:36:54 +0000 Message-Id: <082920062136.880.44F4B376000A5D840000037022070032010B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_880_1156887414_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=LUY6bM1p8IGSvePJ9jYBsUG3XUmNhb9e941i0EagWmzlXq3T01ep X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_880_1156887414_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Ellie, I like Sirielle's idea of taking the starlight from the mirror. I have no canonical backing for that, it just appeals to me as a reader/writer. > The story is set in the Third Age so none of the Mirdain are left. Weren't they all killed with Celebrimbor? Wasn't the Gwaith-i-Mirdain responsible for reforging Narsil? Or is this fanon? If they were, then some would have lived into the Third Age. I have all of the books now digitally (thanks to the lovely Gwynnyd), so I might be able to scare up the hours to search them one by one. (It's much easier to type in a search term than to keep flipping pages!) I don't remember any word on this, but the Third Age, particularly LotR, is really not my forte. > That is an interesting notion that Celebrimbor may have held the secret and passed it on. I believe it is said also in the "Tale of Galadriel and Celeborn" in UT (I think??) that Celebrimbor was enamored of Galadriel. I can see him maybe slipping her a secret in hopes of winning her love. I don't know if you would be interested in such an angle, but if one was to take this fact as truth, it seems plausible to me. Good luck! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_880_1156887414_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: "ellfine2000" To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:43:19 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_880_1156887414_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_880_1156887414_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=

The story is set in the Third Age so none of the Mirdain are left. Weren't they all killed with Celebrimbor?

That is an interesting= notion that Celebrimbor may have held the
secret and passed it on.
=
Any other thoughts, anyone?

Ellie
>
> Ai Ellie= ,
>
>
> e> Help? Anybody? Please? Pretty please= with a cherry on top? Ah, I've
> e> got it. Pretty please with = a naked son of Feanor on top? Now there's
> e> incentive for you= to answer my questions...
>
> That's very tempting, I wish = I could answer and got this topping as
a reward ^_^
>
> = I can only use imagination here. I guess it was the star light
co= ntained in the water from her
> mirror, more possible, though the l= iquid form of light possibility
is more interesting. But she was
&g= t; not one of Gwaith-i-Mirdain to capture the light and close it
= in a bottle. So the usage of her
> mirror is more realistic in this = case.
>
> I guess only Mirdain in ME might know a little o= f F=EBanor's secret,
if they knew anything at all...
> Of course= no one really knew the whole capturing the light of the
trees recipe, = that's for sure. But
> maybe something was passed to Curufin, = who might later
whisper the family secret to his son.
> Celebr= imbor might have captured the light and transform it into
liquid to pr= esent it to Galadriel -
> unless there are specific origins of the v= ial given in books, I
don't remember.
>
>
>
= >
> Suilad,
> Sirielle
&g= t;
> sirielle@...
> http:/= /www.isle.px.pl
> http://sirielle.deviantart.com/
>

=
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_880_1156887414_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_880_1156887414_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 541 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74381 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2006 23:16:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2006 23:16:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2006 23:16:38 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7726158084 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:16:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:16:36 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <463726565.20060830011636@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <082920062136.880.44F4B376000A5D840000037022070032010B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <082920062136.880.44F4B376000A5D840000037022070032010B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=nvGCuZp3Vjt9JyZQU7KAtz_t27svV9ux9aDn1AKWpZC77cD5fBg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai DawnFelagund, Dcn> Hi, Ellie, I like Sirielle's idea of taking the starlight from the mirror. Oh no, it was Ellie's idea, I just like it. Dcn> I believe it is said also in the "Tale of Galadriel and Celeborn" in UT (I think??) that Dcn> Celebrimbor was enamored of Galadriel. I can see him maybe slipping her a secret in hopes of Dcn> winning her love. I don't know if you would be interested in such an angle, but if one was to Dcn> take this fact as truth, it seems plausible to me. Hearing this granddaddy roles around in his grave... I mean revolts in Mandos ;) Galadriel rejected Celebrimbor, so no sharing secrets. Especially to this huge enemy of Massster F�an�ro! [Yup, it comes from UT.] My letters has got recently troubles to get to the list, I had to send the former twice, for it has returned, eh. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 542 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20578 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2006 23:53:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2006 23:53:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.200.81) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2006 23:53:29 -0000 Received: from smailcenter75.comcast.net ([204.127.205.175]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060829233151011008bu29e>; Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:31:51 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by smailcenter75.comcast.net; Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:32:15 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:32:15 +0000 Message-Id: <082920062332.17122.44F4CE7F0006B35C000042E222070209530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=8zyXgP5EUIk1Tu5wOtmtbFXWcyW_cCHq82nKchJRToxyDZZOSJE5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Sirielle wrote: > My letters has got recently troubles to get to the list, I had to send the > former twice, for it has > returned, eh. Yes, I've had troubles too. I haven't gotten all of the posts (I only got Marina's post the other day because I saw Tuxie's reply and checked the homepage). I guess it's Yahell acting up again...and after I'd had hope of improvement, since messages seem to be coming through faster. :^/ And thanks for the clarification of UT! I read it not too long ago, but my Swiss-cheese brain.... ;) Dawn, hoping this sends properly -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 543 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77201 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2006 00:48:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2006 00:48:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.177) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2006 00:48:48 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b36so19532pyb for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.98.6 with SMTP id a6mr372779pym; Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?192.168.1.66? ( [75.33.50.161]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id m39sm48302pye.2006.08.29.17.48.13; Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:48:13 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:48:11 -0400 To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Marta Layton Subject: Earendil's light X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=rBKE64F34wE60OM--Pd6FJpryQBYBUEtinodki6qd7hEYTZpGFVhig X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi guys, I'm going to provide two alternate explanations for Galadriel's phial. Providing it's not too late. And I have no more of a basis for this than anything else. I quite like the idea of the light coming from her mirror, but here are two others to bear in mind: 1. Galadriel forged them in Valinor, circa silmarils' creation. I am no expert, so do we know what she was studying in those days? If the mirror was actually her handiwork, then it makes sense she had to learn how to make magical artifacts somewhere. There's the problem that if anyone knew about her creation's existence she'd be expected to give it up when Feanor refused. But Feanor's silmarils he made from "imperishable crystal" and displayed to everyone; that screams to me that he wanted bragging rights. If Galadriel was more possessive and wanted something beautiful all her own she might have hidden it. If she did so successfully it wouldn't be uncanonical. On the other hand, it wouldn't properly be called the light of Earendil. That would have to be explained as a half-truth she gave Frodo to explain it when she thought he might have learned of someone more recent like Earendil when he wouldn't have learned of the more ancient and disreputable Feanor. Or maybe she was saying it was the same type of light that Earendil had, without saying one came from the other. Or if she had hidden it that long maybe she was embarrassed about that. *shrug* Not sure what the best explanation would be in this scenario. 2. It is a relic of Doriath. Melian and Galadriel create it together in the time that the silmaril comes to Thingol before it passed to Dior and Elwing. They couldn't actually tap into the silmaril, but maybe Melian used her superior magic to capture the light in water from a stream in Doriath and Galadriel put that water into strong crystal. (2) manages to sidestep the two major problems of (1), but I like (1) just because it plays to my notion of Galadriel really needing Celeborn's anchoring to save her from the fate of the other Noldor. And I don't think the problems with (1) are fatal, they'd just take more explaining. Use whichever you like, or neither. :-) Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 544 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43716 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2006 01:54:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2006 01:54:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.21) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2006 01:54:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 01:53:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 01:53:54 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:53:54 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <082920062136.880.44F4B376000A5D840000037022070032010B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=Z6u0I2krDJSyN8iNPYYuOFFNs4tvtHaFwggfXdR4QAhzaEsM1io X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 These are all interesting thoughts, (Marta's, too). Thank you very much! I= 'm too sick to do any writing today and maybe not tomorrow either, so keep = the thoughts coming! This light and it's containment and it's ability to = be poured forth are vital to my story, so you are all helping to push me in= what is appearing more and more to be the right direction. How cool is tha= t, I'm being guided by the light of Earendil... Woohoo! Anwyay... Those wh= o answered so far get first dibs on naked sons of Feanor. So I'm tossing th= em all in the pool and you go rescue the one you want. The story I'm writ= ing is my first dabble in thriller/adventure, so it may not go well, but at= least it will be well researched and the plot is different! Thanks oodles= and bunches for your help! Ellie > > Hi, Ellie, > I like Sirielle's idea o= f taking the starlight from the mirror. I have no canonical backing for tha= t, it just appeals to me as a reader/writer. > > > The story is set in the= Third Age so none of the Mirdain are left. Weren't they all killed with Ce= lebrimbor? > > Wasn't the Gwaith-i-Mirdain responsible for reforging Narsi= l? Or is this fanon? If they were, then some would have lived into the Thir= d Age. > > I have all of the books now digitally (thanks to the lovely Gwy= nnyd), so I might be able to scare up the hours to search them one by one. = (It's much easier to type in a search term than to keep flipping pages!) I = don't remember any word on this, but the Third Age, particularly LotR, is r= eally not my forte. > > > That is an interesting notion that Celebrimbor m= ay have held the secret and passed it on. > > I believe it is said also in= the "Tale of Galadriel and Celeborn" in UT (I think??) that Celebrimbor wa= s enamored of Galadriel. I can see him maybe slipping her a secret in hopes= of winning her love. I don't know if you would be interested in such an an= gle, but if one was to take this fact as truth, it seems plausible to me. >= > Good luck! > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > Read my stories or = visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ddawn_fela= gund > > Are you a relentless First-Ager? > Check out the Silmarillion Wr= iters' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersgu= ild. > ~oOo~ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 545 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16782 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2006 15:10:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2006 15:10:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.203) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2006 15:10:31 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n12.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 15:09:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 15:09:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 15:09:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:09:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=rnld0-ym8fwJ44h6iGyWpxFi9d23Fv4lNSzj5bjjyR0WIBDGtRv90mQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "ellfine2000" wrote: > > These are all interesting thoughts, (Marta's, too). Thank you= very > much! > > I'm too sick to do any writing today and maybe not tomo= rrow either, > so keep the thoughts coming! Well for a naked Feanorian..= . This is from LOTR: "And you, Ring-bearer," she said, turning to Frodo. "= I come to you last who are not last in my thoughts. For you I have prepared= this." She held up a small crystal phial: it glittered as she moved it, an= d rays of white light sprang from her hand. "In this phial," she said, "is = caught the light of Earendil's star, set amid the waters of my fountain. It= will shine still brighter when night is about you. May it be a light to yo= u in dark places, when all other lights go out." The Fellowship of the Ring= : "Farewell to Lorien," p. 393 Looks like she made it herself, especially = the part: 'is caught the light of Earendil's star, set amid the waters of m= y fountain.' Well to me it does. I found this in HOME 7 The treason of Ise= ngard: The phial in which was caught the light of Earendel's star,(22) her= gift to Frodo, now appears, and this passage also is almost word for word = as in FR. It looks as i= f Ingold's (=3DAragorn) gift was omitted inadvertently; or else my father = may have briefly intended to make it the last. There are four versions des= cribing it, the final one being a rider marked for insertion into the tex= t at the beginning of the gift-giving. Tolkien never speculated further= on it (I checked all the HOME parts) > This light and it's containment an= d it's ability to be poured forth > are vital to my story, so you are all h= elping to push me in what is > appearing more and more to be the right dire= ction. How cool is that, > I'm being guided by the light of Earendil... Woo= hoo! Anwyay... LOL! I have another theory if you are interested. > The st= ory I'm writing is my first dabble in thriller/adventure, so > it may not = go well, but at least it will be well researched and the > plot is differe= nt! Nice!!! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 546 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19871 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2006 15:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2006 15:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.172) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2006 15:11:33 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n5.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 15:11:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 15:11:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 15:11:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:11:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Important Announcement about MEFA Fanart Competition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=1pX6CP-brh2Ro08MmxKDkYTgbQnRXMKhQabSAI71RnOwRGYaoQLiNlE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard At this very moment, all participating readers and reviewers of the MEFA's = are writing the gifts every author will receive in November: reviews. But f= or the award winners we do need many banners to hand out at the end of this= year's MEFA's. So far, we have received lovely banners made by Thevina Fi= nduilas, Nienor Niniel, and myself. But we are still looking for more banne= rs in the following categories, which are: Times: First Age and Earlier, E= arly Third Age, Late Third Age, The Great Years, The Fourth Age and Beyond = and Multi-Age Genre: Adventure, Alternate Universe, Drama, Humour, Nonfict= ion and Romance Races: Cross-cultural, Dwarves, Elves, Hobbits, Men and Vi= llains Now you might think, I'd like to make a banner. What do I need to k= now? You can read all about it here in the FAQ: http://www.mefawards.net/fa= q/viewtopic.php?t=3D72 There is no need to sign up for the fanart section = of the MEFA awards, all banners can be sent to the following address: banne= rs@mefawards.net . You should receive an email when the banner is received= by the fanart admin. If you have not heard from us in a week, please email= us to make sure everything is okay. The fanart admin will take care of pla= cing the banner at right spot on the site, giving it the correct title and = filling out the details. If you do have additional questions, your fanart a= dmin Rhapsody will gladly answer them. But before that, if you have more q= uestions regarding which images to use and such, please read the FAQ first:= http://www.mefawards.net/faq/viewforum.php?f=3D7 We hope before the 20th = of November to have a banner or banners for every category. Between the 21s= t and 24th of November 2006 members of the MEFA community can vote for the = banners at the MEFA-awards site and not through the yahoo groups as it happ= ened the previous years. But we will notify all participants in time. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 547 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96394 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2006 19:51:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2006 19:51:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.210) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2006 19:51:08 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n19.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 19:51:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 19:51:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 19:51:00 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:50:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <082820061411.20552.44F2F98D0007ECC90000504822007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Another man's cage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=Wix1jcHxZpfdKmaEKKwSNZE3P8j23evxS3a677i7QRVa62ga7pp8wLsz X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses Hi, Dawn Yes, I've really enjoyed reading the story and I've sneaked a peek= at the next chapters in LJ. A questions: will Nelyo always be so nice wi= th everybody it makes you feel like hitting him? Won't he ever turn just a= little mean? Also, I read a review at FF by a guy who thought the Feanoria= ns were being too cuddly: well, I live in a country -Argentina- where guys= all ages, friends/coworkers/classmates/of course, relatives greet each o= ther with a kiss on the cheek (unless the situation is very formal) and wh= ere fathers are expected and encouraged to kiss, hold and have all kinds o= f physical contact with their children so they will have strong father fig= ures. And these guys think of themselves as very macho and nobody conside= rs either behaviour gay. It's all a matter of culture. So your Feanorians = would be very much at home in Buenos Aires. Can Elves live south of the Eq= uator? I hope so. Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 548 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64748 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2006 20:52:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2006 20:52:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (63.240.77.83) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2006 20:52:03 -0000 Received: from smailcenter44.comcast.net ([204.127.205.144]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060830203226013005aoqce>; Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:32:26 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter44.comcast.net; Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:32:18 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:32:18 +0000 Message-Id: <083020062032.19952.44F5F5D200082E5800004DF022007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19952_1156969938_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Another man's cage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=bjXZ5qzn2dbnOhgI5kxsp52mrPBguDVXojPZvYw3_B4iQEUiJnLn X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19952_1156969938_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Angelica, I'm so pleased to hear that you have read (and liked!) AMC! It is probably the dearest story to me, though I no longer count it as my best. > A questions: will Nelyo always be so nice with everybody it makes you feel like hitting him? Won't he ever turn just a little mean? Lol! Here's a secret to the writing of Dawn Felagund: Whenever a character is so unbearably happy and sweet, that generally means that I am about to push him down a loooong flight of stairs. Not literally, of course, but I am setting him up for a figurative fall. *rubs hands in evil glee* Though Nelyo in AMC is not too gritty (though angsty), he gets a bit more rebellious in later stories. (Most of which are unwritten in my head at the moment, so not a whole lot of help to you, but "Essecarme" hints at some of it.) > Also, I read a review at FF by a guy who thought the Feanorians were being too cuddly: well, I live in a country -Argentina- where guys all ages, friends/coworkers/classmates/of course, relatives greet each other with a kiss on the cheek (unless the situation is very formal) and where fathers are expected and encouraged to kiss, hold and have all kinds of physical contact with their children so they will have strong father figures. And these guys think of themselves as very macho and nobody considers either behaviour gay. It's all a matter of culture. So your Feanorians would be very much at home in Buenos Aires. I once dated a man from Peru who behaved in much the same way. Americans, in my experience, are very uptight about such matters. We seem always too be worried about appearing "gay" or being charged with sexual harassment or having our intentions misread as being "perverted" somehow. I remember that my best friend and I used to hold hands on the playground when I was seven years old, and a classmate called us "gay," for example, and thought us quite weird for it. (And we continued to hold hands on the playground anyway!) I thought that, if nothing else, the fact that Elves don't have to fear pedophilia or sexual assault or infidelity or any manner of sexual indiscretions would make it unlikely that they would have the same aversions as Americans do to such contact. Never mind that Elven families seem much more closely knit than most American families. But thank you for your reassurances! :) That particular reviewer and I corresponded a bit back and forth, and it became pretty clear to me after only a short while that we were not going to see eye-to-eye on this particular issue. And honestly, probably about fifty people have read and reviewed these chapters, and two have expressed dislike for this particular aspect, so it's not something that I am even considering changing. It's just my own interpretation of things. :) > Can Elves live south of the Equator? I hope so. I would think so! :^D *sends a few your way* Thank you again and best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19952_1156969938_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, Angelica,
I'm so pleased to hear that you have read (and liked!) AMC! It is probably the dearest story to me, though I no longer count it as my best.
 
> A questions: will Nelyo always be so nice with everybody it makes you feel like hitting him? Won't he ever turn just a little mean?
Lol! Here's a secret to the writing of Dawn Felagund: Whenever a character is so unbearably happy and sweet, that generally means that I am about to push him down a loooong flight of stairs. Not literally, of course, but I am setting him up for a figurative fall. *rubs hands in evil glee* Though Nelyo in AMC is not too gritty (though angsty), he gets a bit more rebellious in later stories. (Most of which are unwritten in my head at the moment, so not a whole lot of help to you, but "Essecarme" hints at some of it.)
 
> Also, I read a review at FF by a guy who thought the Feanorians were being too cuddly: well, I live in a country -Argentina- where guys all ages, friends/coworkers/classmates/of course, relatives greet each other with a kiss on the cheek (unless the situation is very formal) and where fathers are expected and encouraged to kiss, hold and have all kinds of physical contact with their children so they will have strong father figures. And these guys think of themselves as very macho and nobody considers either behaviour gay. It's all a matter of culture. So your Feanorians would be very much at home in Buenos Aires.
 
I once dated a man from Peru who behaved in much the same way. Americans, in my experience, are very uptight about such matters. We seem always too be worried about appearing "gay" or being charged with sexual harassment or having our intentions misread as being "perverted" somehow. I remember that my best friend and I used to hold hands on the playground when I was seven years old, and a classmate called us "gay," for example, and thought us quite weird for it. (And we continued to hold hands on the playground anyway!) I thought that, if nothing else, the fact that Elves don't have to fear pedophilia or sexual assault or infidelity or any manner of sexual indiscretions would make it unlikely that they would have the same aversions as Americans do to such contact. Never mind that Elven families seem much more closely knit than most American families.
 
But thank you for your reassurances! :) That particular reviewer and I corresponded a bit back and forth, and it became pretty clear to me after only a short while that we were not going to see eye-to-eye on this particular issue. And honestly, probably about fifty people have read and reviewed these chapters, and two have expressed dislike for this particular aspect, so it's not something that I am even considering changing. It's just my own interpretation of things. :)
 
> Can Elves live south of the Equator? I hope so.
 
I would think so! :^D *sends a few your way*
 
Thank you again and best wishes,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19952_1156969938_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 549 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42308 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2006 21:34:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2006 21:34:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2006 21:34:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n16.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 21:34:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 21:34:25 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:34:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=ktgRg7yIRvkkgRW81U60mOLUqfBeujTFbd-scSbyYAeQmHp-1Ck X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Rhapsody, Thanks so much for this info! Extrememly helpful! Tell me your= other theory and you can have your Feanorian. Ellie > > --- In Silmarilli= onWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "ellfine2000" > wrote: > > > > = These are all interesting thoughts, (Marta's, too). Thank you very > > muc= h! > > > > I'm too sick to do any writing today and maybe not tomorrow eit= her, > > so keep the thoughts coming! > > Well for a naked Feanorian... = > > This is from LOTR: > "And you, Ring-bearer," she said, turning to Frod= o. "I come to you > last who are not last in my thoughts. For you I have pr= epared this." > She held up a small crystal phial: it glittered as she move= d it, and > rays of white light sprang from her hand. "In this phial," she = said, > "is caught the light of Earendil's star, set amid the waters of my = > fountain. It will shine still brighter when night is about you. May it > = be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out." > The Fell= owship of the Ring: "Farewell to Lorien," p. 393 > > Looks like she made i= t herself, especially the part: 'is caught the > light of Earendil's star, = set amid the waters of my fountain.' Well to > me it does. > > I found thi= s in HOME 7 The treason of Isengard: > The phial in which was caught the li= ght of Earendel's star,(22) her > gift to Frodo, now appears, and this pas= sage also is almost word for > word as in FR. = > It looks as if Ingold's (=3DAragorn) gift was omit= ted inadvertently; or > else my father may have briefly intended to make i= t the last. There > are four versions describing it, the final one being a= rider marked > for insertion into the text at the beginning of the gift-= giving. > > Tolkien never speculated further on it (I checked all the H= OME parts) > > > This light and it's containment and it's ability to be po= ured forth > > are vital to my story, so you are all helping to push me in = what is > > appearing more and more to be the right direction. How cool is = that, > > I'm being guided by the light of Earendil... Woohoo! Anwyay... > = > LOL! I have another theory if you are interested. > > > The story I'm w= riting is my first dabble in thriller/adventure, so > > it may not go well= , but at least it will be well researched and the > > plot is different! >= > Nice!!! > > Rhapsody > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 550 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 786 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2006 21:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2006 21:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2006 21:56:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 21:56:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 21:56:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:56:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=nAlAElguFlq8nhIoaPFDbyMaz00qiAdRMh0l4tbeXZluqsW7cvwDlqQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "ellfine2000" wrote: > > Rhapsody, > > Thanks so much for this info! Extrememly help= ful! > > Tell me your other theory and you can have your Feanorian. See y= our inbox! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 551 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94639 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2006 22:45:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2006 22:45:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2006 22:45:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 22:44:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Aug 2006 22:44:18 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:44:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Need Info on the Vial of Galadriel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=FVOd2zuUvfPNRtf3scqhALZJzyZAp83HVqRp4Hl7Diysmxmrneg X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Go it. Thanks! Be sure to pick your son of Feanor on the way out... Ellie = > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "ellfine2000" > wrote: > > > > Rhapsody, > > > > Thanks so much for this info! Ex= trememly helpful! > > > > Tell me your other theory and you can have your = Feanorian. > > See your inbox! > > Rhapsody > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 552 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49833 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2006 13:28:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2006 13:28:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7c.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.198) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2006 13:28:04 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.121] by n7.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2006 13:26:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2006 13:26:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2006 13:26:36 -0000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:26:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <083020062032.19952.44F5F5D200082E5800004DF022007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Another man's cage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=Zo_B1TowCfC4c1zP1GeIV4TOkshQKz4hJO9ST2nW0IjSc6r3A0cz-DAh X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses Hi, Dawn I've read "Essecarme" and really liked it, though Maitimo seems st= ill too perfect. Will this be his turning point? Feanor deserves some rat= tling after choosing Curufin's father name the way he did. I enjoy Makalau= re as POV very much because he has this mix between teenage rebelliousness= and self-assertion and doubts about who he is and what he really wants fi= tting his age. I hope he becomes more obviously self confident (he well sh= ould: after all he has everything going for him). The letter writing with = Vingarie (that's the right spelling?) is great. Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 553 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95291 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2006 15:37:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2006 15:37:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc15.comcast.net) (63.240.77.85) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2006 15:37:06 -0000 Received: from smailcenter43.comcast.net ([204.127.205.143]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc15) with SMTP id <2006083114331101500cvmage>; Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:33:11 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter43.comcast.net; Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:33:09 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:33:09 +0000 Message-Id: <083120061433.28803.44F6F32500074DE30000708322007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_28803_1157034789_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Another man's cage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=RVmRN36qGo3I3vBIqtgayVFwdM7x9YomqCZVoNDJc2Xgx4LEBXkq X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_28803_1157034789_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Angelica wrote: > I've read "Essecarme" and really liked it, though Maitimo seems still too perfect. Will this be his turning point? Sort of. :) What I am trying to do with the character of Maitimo is to portray someone who is unusually gifted in interpersonal interactions. He is very poised, collected, very aware of people's feelings and impressions of him, and quite good at altering his own behavior as a result. In AMC, he is still at the point where he assumes that he will go into his father's work, although not necessarily working with his hands so much as his mind. Over the course of AMC, he begins to question whether he wants to do this. Somewhere between AMC and "Essecarme," in the story that exists so far only in my mind, he comes to the realization that while he is intelligent enough for the sort of work that Feanaro wishes for him to do, it is not what he loves. He will go to live in Tirion, to serve his grandfather, first as a scribe, which Feanaro considers "beneath" his intelligent, well-born son. (Finwe's perspective is that if he wishes Maitimo to become the sort of councillor that he wants, he should start at the very bottom and work up, much as Finwe did himself. Finwe and Feanaro both wish Maitimo to be their proteges. Maitimo, of course, chooses Finwe.) Naturally, Feanaro is displeased. He sees Maitimo's choice as a betrayal of him and the values which he has tried to teach his children, Maitimo included. In AMC, I think that it is somewhat apparent that Feanaro looks down on "politicians," even his own father's lifestyle to a certain degree, and this is what his eldest son--his heir--wishes to become. He is hurt and angry, and we all know what happens when Feanaro gets hurt and angry. ;) *This* is what I see as the turning point. There is naturally much argument between father and son with the result that Maitimo leaves for Tirion on bad terms and Feanaro is suddenly left without his most promising student. "Essecarme" occurs sometime shortly thereafter; when Curufinwe is born, Feanaro decides that *this* will be the child who will be his protege, who will be more perfect even than his perfect eldest brother. And from Feanaro's PoV, he is. I made Maitimo's character in this way because I have always seen him (along with Fingon) as one who possesses extraordinary gifts in leadership and in uniting his people. My husband is a political scientist, and so I have talked to him about diplomacy and such, since I use these ideas on occasion in my stories, and about my character of Maitimo (as a diplomat), and he always tells me a quote that I love: "[A diplomat is] a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you actually look forward to the trip." With this in mind, I have made Maitimo a character who *appears* quite perfect indeed, even though he may not be. When he is nasty or rude to someone, I try to do it subtly. I don't know if you've read so far as chapter 8 (I think?) and his discussion with the sons of the lords of Tirion, but when he implies there that one of the lord's sons is lying about his hunting prowess, subtly so that everyone knows what he's saying but can't necessarily attach an aggressive m otive to it, that is how he generally interacts with people in the negative sense. Whew. Sorry for that looong explanation. Does this seem to make sense to you, as a reader? I tend to dislike perfect characters myself, but I made Maitimo so quite deliberately. (Naturally, he becomes considerably less perfect once the rebellion of the Noldor starts. :^P) > I enjoy Makalaure as POV very much because he has this mix between teenage rebelliousness and self-assertion and doubts about who he is and what he really wants fitting his age. I hope he becomes more obviously self confident (he well should: after all he has everything going for him). No worries, he does! :) But in the meantime, I am having such fun with awkward, adolescent Macalaure! Thanks so much for the thoughts, Angelica. I really appreciate it! Best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_28803_1157034789_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Angelica wrote:
> I've read "Essecarme" and really liked it, though Maitimo seems still too perfect. Will this be his turning point?
 
Sort of. :) What I am trying to do with the character of Maitimo is to portray someone who is unusually gifted in interpersonal interactions. He is very poised, collected, very aware of people's feelings and impressions of him, and quite good at altering his own behavior as a result. In AMC, he is still at the point where he assumes that he will go into his father's work, although not necessarily working with his hands so much as his mind. Over the course of AMC, he begins to question whether he wants to do this.
 
Somewhere between AMC and "Essecarme," in the story that exists so far only in my mind, he comes to the realization that while he is intelligent enough for the sort of work that Feanaro wishes for him to do, it is not what he loves. He will go to live in Tirion, to serve his grandfather, first as a scribe, which Feanaro considers "beneath" his intelligent, well-born son. (Finwe's perspective is that if he wishes Maitimo to become the sort of councillor that he wants, he should start at the very bottom and work up, much as Finwe did himself. Finwe and Feanaro both wish Maitimo to be their proteges. Maitimo, of course, chooses Finwe.) Naturally, Feanaro is displeased. He sees Maitimo's choice as a betrayal of him and the values which he has tried to teach his children, Maitimo included. In AMC, I think that it is somewhat apparent that Feanaro looks down on "politicians," even his own father's lifestyle to a certain degree, and this is what his eldest son--his heir--wishes to become. He is hurt and angry, and we all know what happens when Feanaro gets hurt and angry. ;)
 
*This* is what I see as the turning point. There is naturally much argument between father and son with the result that Maitimo leaves for Tirion on bad terms and Feanaro is suddenly left without his most promising student.  "Essecarme" occurs sometime shortly thereafter; when Curufinwe is born, Feanaro decides that *this* will be the child who will be his protege, who will be more perfect even than his perfect eldest brother. And from Feanaro's PoV, he is.
 
I made Maitimo's character in this way because I have always seen him (along with Fingon) as one who possesses extraordinary gifts in leadership and in uniting his people. My husband is a political scientist, and so I have talked to him about diplomacy and such, since I use these ideas on occasion in my stories, and about my character of Maitimo (as a diplomat), and he always tells me a quote that I love: "[A diplomat is] a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you actually look forward to the trip." With this in mind, I have made Maitimo a character who *appears* quite perfect indeed, even though he may not be. When he is nasty or rude to someone, I try to do it subtly. I don't know if you've read so far as chapter 8 (I think?) and his discussion with the sons of the lords of Tirion, but when he implies there that one of the lord's sons is lying about his hunting prowess, subtly so that everyone knows what he's say ing but can't necessarily attach an aggressive motive to it, that is how he generally interacts with people in the negative sense.
 
Whew. Sorry for that looong explanation. Does this seem to make sense to you, as a reader? I tend to dislike perfect characters myself, but I made Maitimo so quite deliberately. (Naturally, he becomes considerably less perfect once the rebellion of the Noldor starts. :^P)
 
> I enjoy Makalaure as POV very much because he has this mix between teenage rebelliousness and self-assertion and doubts about who he is and what he really wants fitting his age. I hope he becomes more obviously self confident (he well should: after all he has everything going for him).
 
No worries, he does! :) But in the meantime, I am having such fun with awkward, adolescent Macalaure!
 
Thanks so much for the thoughts, Angelica. I really appreciate it! Best wishes,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_28803_1157034789_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 554 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8806 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2006 18:56:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2006 18:56:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.160) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2006 18:56:51 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n17.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2006 18:56:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2006 18:56:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Aug 2006 18:56:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:56:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <083120061433.28803.44F6F32500074DE30000708322007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Another man's cage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=cL4b5p4HX4YjE8IFdxal68oQ5bU0WzSfJ09dS0-BlH1aVQxthPJ-QWoe X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses Hi, Dawn, Have you already started writing this story? Will you start it s= oon? I can't wait to read it. In the meantime, I'll go back to AMC -I hav= e lots of chapters still ahead of me, and all the story to reread more car= efully. Best regards Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 555 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46017 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2006 20:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2006 20:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2006 20:45:56 -0000 Received: from smailcenter59.comcast.net ([204.127.205.159]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060831202014011008c4p5e>; Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:20:14 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter59.comcast.net; Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:20:11 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:20:11 +0000 Message-Id: <083120062020.1095.44F7447B000B325A0000044722070032010B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1095_1157055611_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Another man's cage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=VtVVadwyKJ91lTg0McAKTNP6bW3-MFpNawhARyBSBygu0XmDnL19 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1095_1157055611_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Angelica wrote: > Have you already started writing this story? Will you start it soon? > I can't wait to read it. Not yet, but I will! I do a lot of writing in my head, sometimes years before actually starting a story. Much of AMC, for example, was "mentally written" before I committed a word to paper. :^P The next story in the "AMC series" is actually going to be the prequel, the romance of Nerdanel and Feanor. I am very tempted to continue onward (because I really, really want to write angry!Nelyo :^P) but think it's best to get the background completely painted to minimize the chance of inconsistencies. Plus, I really, really want to write that story too. Too many stories, too little time. *sigh* I hope you enjoy the rest of AMC. It gets much darker and much angstier as time goes by, naturally. But when I finish the sequel, that will be the SSP heard around the world! Thanks for all your thoughts and have a nice weekend, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1095_1157055611_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Angelica wrote:
> Have you already started writing this story? Will you start it soon?
> I can't wait to read it.
 
Not yet, but I will! I do a lot of writing in my head, sometimes years before actually starting a story. Much of AMC, for example, was "mentally written" before I committed a word to paper. :^P
 
The next story in the "AMC series" is actually going to be the prequel, the romance of Nerdanel and Feanor. I am very tempted to continue onward (because I really, really want to write angry!Nelyo :^P) but think it's best to get the background completely painted to minimize the chance of inconsistencies. Plus, I really, really want to write that story too.
 
Too many stories, too little time. *sigh*
 
I hope you enjoy the rest of AMC. It gets much darker and much angstier as time goes by, naturally. But when I finish the sequel, that will be the SSP heard around the world!
Thanks for all your thoughts and have a nice weekend,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1095_1157055611_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 556 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7810 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2006 02:11:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2006 02:11:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (63.240.77.81) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2006 02:11:40 -0000 Received: from smailcenter69.comcast.net ([204.127.205.169]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <200609010115000110087064e>; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 01:15:00 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by smailcenter69.comcast.net; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 01:15:00 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 01:15:00 +0000 Message-Id: <090120060115.4263.44F78993000BAFA9000010A722028887440B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: September Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=a3llYqhxB3a7124FMLo7tFGeMDT8jr8ibRbA4zRzBaDjM7PfWDEx X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund The newsletter can be read in prettier format in our LJ here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/61513.html CHALLENGES **A Lesson Learned** This month, as students in many parts of the world head back to class, shops advertise their back-to-school sales, and many new university students (and their parents!) adjust to their new lifestyle, education is on the forefront of the minds of many! In keeping with this idea, this month's challenge deals with lessons learned. Write a story, drabble, or poem that features a character learning something new. The character could learn something very tangible--like forging, the alphabet, or how to tie his or her shoes--or a "life lesson": the meaning of love, friendship, betrayal, or any number of others. Some writers might find it interesting to explore what sorts of education systems--if any--existed in the different cultures of Middle-earth. Many times, Silmarillion-based stories features apprentices or formal schooling. Do you think that this is probable for a specific culture? Other authors might enjoy imagining how different cultures and races interacted and subsequently learned from each other. Were the Edain literate before they met the Elves? What did the Elves teach them of art and war? What might E�l, Maeglin, and the Gwaith-i-Mirdain have learned from the Dwarves and vice versa? Or what did the Valar teach the Elves when they first arrived in Aman? **An Elf Falls into Modern-earth...** Many writers have done successful comedies and dramas based around the idea of Tolkien's characters arriving somehow in modern times. What if a character arrived somehow in the modern world? What might s/he think? Or perhaps the character has been here all along: Maglor, Daeron, or Celeborn, to name three examples. Whatever the means you use to get them here, this challenge asks you to experience modern life through the eyes of First-, Second-, and Third-Age Silmarillion characters. **The Quote of the Month Challenge** The Quote of the Month challenge asks you to write based on the themes and thoughts the quote inspires or about the event in which the quote occurred. You may write in any format--poem, story, essay, or drabble--with any characters, genre, or rating. �At the first rising of the Sun the Younger Children of Il�vatar awoke in the land of Hild�rien in the eastward regions of Middle-earth; but the first Sun arose in the West, and the opening eyes of Men were turned towards it, and their feet as they wandered over the Earth for the most part strayed that way.� -The Silmarillion, �Of Men� **Characters of the Month: Amrod and Amras** Last year, September was declared the Official Month of the F�anor Fanfolk, so it seems appropriate to honor a son--or two sons--of F�anor for our Character of the Month. Writings about F�anor and his family are some of the most prevalent in the fandom, yet not much is said on Amrod and Amras. The twins often fall into the background of stories but could be intriguing characters in their own right. The twins are commonly used for comic relief; others find their bond mysterious and even a little eerie. Other authors go to great lengths to defy the fanon conventions that surround Elven twins, including the sons of F�anor. If you want to learn more about how Amrod and Amras feature in The Silmarillion, our wonderful research guru Fanged Geranium has compiled each mention of them here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/17934.html If you have an idea for a challenge or would like to suggest a quote or featured character, please contact our challenge moderator, Jenni at elennf569@rogers.com. All past challenges are open for writing and are tagged in our LiveJournal here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/challenge WELCOMES AND BIRTHDAYS Welcome to ab_fan14, anyachico, Claudio, and didus.ineptus, our newest memberS to join our Yahoo! group in August! Welcome also to all who have joined or are watching our LiveJournal community. Jenni's (digdigil) birthday is this Saturday, 2 September. Jenni's favorite characters are listed as F�anor, Maedhros, Maglor, Melian, Est�, Irmo, Galadriel, Fingolfin, Finrod Felagund, and Voronw�. She loves dramatic and sexy stories (slash and het) and lists her favorite scenes as "F�anor yelling at Manw� and Manw�'s herald, F�anor yelling at Fingolfin, F�anor yelling at anybody, really; Maedhros hanging around on Thangorodrim; Fingolfin coming up the beach as the Sun shines for the first time; Voronw� waiting at the cliffs by the sea." Dawn's (dawn_felagund) birthday is 16 September. Dawn is a sucker for any F�anorian but recently finds herself also enamored of Finrod Felagund, Finarfin, and E�rwen. She loves geeky stories that deal with psychology and culture but appreciates just about anything of any rating. NEWS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS **History of Middle-earth Reading** SWG will be hosting a reading of the HoMe series dealing with events and material pertinent to The Silmarillion. We are in the process of organizing this, but weekly or bi-weekly summaries will likely be posted on both the Yahoo! group and the LiveJournal community for easy access for research purposes. Discussion is encouraged during the reading, so be sure to bring all of your wild and crazy theories (and the tame ones too) and thoughts on the History of Middle-earth. **Website Stuff** We are still going to have an archive and website. The financer of the website (me, Dawn) met with an unexpected expense of buying SCUBA equipment and an underwater digital camera but has told her husband in no uncertain terms that webspace must be next on the list. Anyone with experience in building websites--particularly PHP--who would like to help our rookie web designer (me again) should email me at DawnFelagund@comcast.net. I will be asking for help soon: probably for additional moderators to help Uli, Jenni, and me keep tabs on the forums, for folks to help new members around the site, and for people interested in compiling research for our resources section. If you think you might be interested in any of these things, drop me (Dawn) a line or keep an eye on this Yahoo! group, where all announcements will be posted first. As usual, please direct all comments and questions to Dawn at DawnFelagund@comcast.net. I'm amiable and would love to hear from you! Happy September everyone and best of luck to the students starting back to school! Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 557 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70836 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2006 06:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2006 06:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.190) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2006 06:40:43 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.121] by n23.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 06:40:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 06:40:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 06:40:26 -0000 Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 06:40:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Niki the Wanderer" Subject: A newbie says a rambly hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=iH8B8TMrpcrUEZkvL1okl0Xu8HDBEDg2qaYfm1hihx87DgEdSw X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes Umm... hi! Obviously, I'm new here, and this is the first time in a LONG wh= ile that I've joined a group like this (the *very* first time ever on Yahoo= , certainly). So I'm a bit shy here and for all I know, the link I *think* = is meant to post a message is really posting embarrassing pictures of every= body to a high-speed website and will get a crowd of you with flames and pi= tchforks chasing me out at top speed or something. ;) Anyway, I'm Niki, bu= t if you hang around LiveJournal, you may very well have seen me harrass on= e of your friends (or possibly even you) with a rambly comment left under t= he name of Pulsarkat. I'm 23 years old, have a degree in English with empha= sis on creative writing (not an honor meant to be mistaken for "actually a = decent writer" ;)), and am currently unemployed but trying to go back to sc= hool to get a degree in Computer Science. And I've never written fanficti= on in my life--at least not yet. But I love reading (and discussing) it, an= d I find that throughout my life, there's always been one fandom above all = others that, while I don't quite *obsess* about it, I can't seem to get bor= ed with researching it. Currently, that fandom for me is Tolkien, or most s= pecifically, the Silmarillion. LotR and the Hobbit are cool, too, but just = don't hold my attention the same way. My (slightly shortened, if you'll b= elieve it when you read it) life's story with Tolkien: My mom tried to get = me into Tolkien when I was 11 or 12 years old, but I judged "The Hobbit" by= its "cutesiness" and by the fact that it was more "fantasy-ish" than the s= orts of science fiction I loved at the time and refused to touch it. When= I was 18, The Lord of the Rings came out in theaters, and my dad, who had = been a fan of Tolkien's since he was 18 (and later admitted to me he couldn= 't read Tolkien before he was 18 either), insisted on taking us for Christm= as. I was thoroughly impressed: the costumes, the music, the scenery, the l= anguages... there was no way I couldn't read the books after seeing the fir= st movie. Which I did (and also read The Hobbit as well), and the charact= ers who stood out the most to me were surprisingly not the hobbits or the "= Men" (why do I think of deodorant commercials everytime I see that capitali= zed word? :P), but the Elves--I admit I'm fascinated by the intelligent and= ancient, both when they're kind and wise, and when they're flawed and the = conflict is largely generated by the fact that the rest of the world has to= deal with their mistakes in the past. When I was done with LotR and Th= e Hobbit, naturally I wanted more. So I went to the bookstore and saw that = there was indeed more--a LOT more, and decided to start with the Silmarilli= on, seeing how that seemed logical. I fell in love after the first few chap= ters. Since the Silm, I've been trying to trudge my way through the rest of= HoME, but that's no small task--there are a few gems of passages here and = there, but I'll admit sometimes it's a real chore. O_o Currently, I'm neari= ng the end of The Lost Road and Other Writings (which has a large white "5"= on it). Tolkien interests me personally because, well, I've always had a= fascination with other times and cultures, and I apparently have this rule= of "the older, the better" (I've appreciated ancient civilization units mo= re than World War units in any history class I've ever taken), but I'm also= interested in my (and other fans') reactions to his tales. His "old cultur= es" almost seem believable to me, and as I watched the movies and read the = books, I wanted to learn more about them. And then there are the characters= --aggravating because of how little is said about some of my favorites, but= they're just very memorable, all the same... Furthermore, he concocts th= is "myth," apparently for himself, but you see his son publishing all these= little notes and details about it after his death, people paying money for= them, discussing and debating (and sometimes wanking over ^_^;) them, crea= ting theories about them, writing fanfiction about them... it almost feels = like an actual ancient religion or something at times. And then, of course,= there are things like characters who barely have *anything* canonical said= about them getting people fanatical and "lusting" after them... I can't he= lp but be interested in that. (That is, of course, not unique to Tolkien's = fandom, but as I'm currently looking at Tolkien's fandom for myself, that's= the fandom I'm seeing this in.) My very favorite character of all-time w= ould have to be Finrod--while I was reading the Silm, he was just kind of a= cool character I didn't pay much attention to (plus there was the fact tha= t there was little reason (such as kinslayings) *not* to like him that I co= uld remember), but when I got to read "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth," the co= mbination of how he was more of a philosopher than most other great Noldor = and how he spoke to Andreth and just how he spoke and thought in general ju= st made me fall totally in love with him. (And I wish I could see a piece o= f writing where Tolkien himself shows another Silm Elf as up close and pers= onal as he does with Finrod there, you know?) My second favorite Elf is Ma= glor (he caught my attention with the love between him and Elrond and Elros= , and with wanting to rescind the Oath), followed closely by Maedros, and I= 'm also a fan of Elrond, Glorfindel, Finarfin (I just get the impression th= at if I had a collection of Plush Noldor, I'd find myself wanting to hug Fi= narfin the most every time I walked by), and Nerdanel (wow, a female Elf wh= o's admirability and virtue isn't obvious in her stunning beauty! :P) And = why I'm here: I've been lurking quietly around the LJ community for a while= , and figured, "Why not see what the Yahoo community's like, as well?" I ha= ve no fanfiction to offer and don't know if I'm a great discusser or anythi= ng, but I have been thinking about seeking a decent Silmarillion group for = a while, so I guess we'll see... *waves shyly* Hullo! Hope I didn't bore = anyone to death with all that... if there's anything else you want to know = about me, I guess my Yahoo profile or my LiveJournal profile are the places= to look... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 558 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18011 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2006 15:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2006 15:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (204.127.200.83) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2006 15:35:18 -0000 Received: from smailcenter57.comcast.net ([204.127.205.157]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060902152732013007g6p5e>; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 15:27:32 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by smailcenter57.comcast.net; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 15:27:31 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 15:27:31 +0000 Message-Id: <090220061527.20401.44F9A2E3000D006F00004FB122058860140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20401_1157210851_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] A newbie says a rambly hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=VMIqhXFTgDBqvAG2XXNb9VqZBhvp_XLnkDAZ6qrmbUC5p7M2Rxvm X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20401_1157210851_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Niki! I'm so pleased to see you here! :) Yahell actually sent me the "new member" notification this time (it forgot for two of the four new members last month, so I was pleasantly surprised when time came to write the welcomes in the newsletter!), but I did not recognize your email. Bad 'gund.... Your story sounds a lot like mine, actually. :) I was forced into reading "The Hobbit" in an "Academically Talented English" class in fifth grade and pretty much hated it. Next year, it was FotR; I made it through two chapters of that before officially deciding to pretty much hate it too and reading no further. (That may have actually been the first time that I didn't finish the assigned book and coasted by on the essays and exams based on hearsay and common sense alone! :^P) When the movies came out, I loved them and sought the book, then couldn't get enough and picked up the Sil, and the rest is history. :) I'm always pleasantly surprised by the number of people in the Silm fandom because of the movies. Say what you will about Peter Jackson's portrayal and interpretation of things, but at least he got people interested who would not have otherwise discovered Middle-earth! > Since the Silm, I've been trying to trudge my way through the rest of HoME, but that's no small task--there are a few gems of passages here and there, but I'll admit sometimes it's a real chore. I'm with you there too! I generally look up my favorite characters in the index and read what is said about them. :^P But we are getting ready to start a HoMe reading here, so maybe that will help motivate us both. > And then there are the characters--aggravating because of how little is said about some of my favorites, but they're just very memorable, all the same... I think that I've always been attracted to writing and discussing the Sil (whereas I play in no other fandoms except a teensy-tiny bit in LotR) *because* of this; because there's so little information and, in many cases, no absolutes, so it's like putting together a puzzle or solving a mystery. For example, in my stories, I make Maedhros diplomatic and Celegorm needy, and this is based off lots of tiny details and connections and deductions made over the years. It seems much more fun to me than having a ready-made character complete with a ready-made personality, motivations, and history. Erm...that's a bit off-topic from what you said.... :^P > My very favorite character of all-time would have to be Finrod *coughcough* *points to pen name* Not that I would agree with you here or anything.... ;) > And why I'm here: I've been lurking quietly around the LJ community for a while, and figured, "Why not see what the Yahoo community's like, as well?" We're a nice bunch of people, a new and growing group (that now has 51 members as of yesterday--*squee!*) but I am often in awe of the knowledge and insight that people have and are willing to share around here. We're going to someday have our own website (but I suppose you know that by now) but the webmaster is very slow with things (and I suppose you know that too!) So welcome again, and I hope that you enjoy the company. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20401_1157210851_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: "Niki the Wanderer" To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] A newbie says a rambly hello Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 06:40:45 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20401_1157210851_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20401_1157210851_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Umm... hi! Obviously, I'm new here, and this is the first time in a
LONG while that I've joined a group like this (the *very* first time
ever on Yahoo, certainly). So I'm a bit shy here and for all I know,
the link I *think* is meant to post a message is really posting
embarrassing pictures of everybody to a high-speed website and will
get a crowd of you with flames and pitchforks chasing me out at top
speed or something. ;)

Anyway, I'm Niki, but if you hang around LiveJournal, you may very
well have seen me harrass one of your friends (or possibly even you)
with a rambly comment left under the name of Pulsarkat. I'm 23 years
old, have a degree in English with emphasis on creative writing (not
an honor meant to be mistaken for "actually a decent writer" ;)), and
am currently unemployed but trying to go back to school to get a
degree in Computer Science.

And I've never written fanfiction in my life--at least not yet. But I
love reading (and discussing) it, and I find that throughout my life,
there's always been one fandom above all others that, while I don't
quite *obsess* about it, I can't seem to get bored with researching
it. Currently, that fandom for me is Tolkien, or most specifically,
the Silmarillion. LotR and the Hobbit are cool, too, but just don't
hold my attention the same way.

My (slightly shortened, if you'll believe it when you read it) life's
story with Tolkien: My mom tried to get me into Tolkien when I was 11
or 12 years old, but I judged "The Hobbit" by its "cutesiness" and by
the fact that it was more "fantasy-ish" than the sorts of science
fiction I loved at the time and refused to touch it.

When I was 18, The Lord of the Rings came out in theaters, and my dad,
who had been a fan of Tolkien's since he was 18 (and later admitted to
me he couldn't read Tolkien before he was 18 either), insisted on
taking us for Christmas. I was thoroughly impressed: the costumes, the
music, the scenery, the languages... there was no way I couldn't read
the books after seeing the first movie.

Which I did (and also read The Hobbit as well), and the characters who
stood out the most to me were surprisingly not the hobbits or the
"Men" (why do I think of deodorant commercials everytime I see that
capitalized word? :P), but the Elves--I admit I'm fascinated by the
intelligent and ancient, both when they're kind and wise, and when
they're flawed and the conflict is largely generated by the fact that
the rest of the world has to deal with their mistakes in the past.

When I was done with LotR and The Hobbit, naturally I wanted more. So
I went to the bookstore and saw that there was indeed more--a LOT
more, and decided to start with the Silmarillion, seeing how that
seemed logical. I fell in love after the first few chapters. Since the
Silm, I've been trying to trudge my way through the rest of HoME, but
that's no small task--there are a few gems of passages here and there,
but I'll admit sometimes it's a real chore. O_o Currently, I'm nearing
the end of The Lost Road and Other Writings (which has a large white
"5" on it).

Tolkien interests me personally because, well, I've always had a
fascination with other times and cultures, and I apparently have this
rule of "the older, the better" (I've appreciated ancient civilization
units more than World War units in any history class I've ever taken),
but I'm also interested in my (and other fans') reactions to his
tales. His "old cultures" almost seem believable to me, and as I
watched the movies and read the books, I wanted to learn more about
them. And then there are the characters--aggravating because of how
little is said about some of my favorites, but they're just very
memorable, all the same...

Furthermore, he concocts this "myth," apparently for himself, but you
see his son publishing all these little notes and details about it
after his death, people paying money for them, discussing and debating
(and sometimes wanking over ^_^;) them, creating theories about them,
writing fanfiction about them... it almost feels like an actual
ancient religion or something at times. And then, of course, there are
things like characters who barely have *anything* canonical said about
them getting people fanatical and "lusting" after them... I can't help
but be interested in that. (That is, of course, not unique to
Tolkien's fandom, but as I'm currently looking at Tolkien's fandom for
myself, that's the fandom I'm seeing this in.)

My very favorite character of all-time would have to be Finrod--while
I was reading the Silm, he was just kind of a cool character I didn't
pay much attention to (plus there was the fact that there was little
reason (such as kinslayings) *not* to like him that I could remember),
but when I got to read "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth," the combination
of how he was more of a philosopher than most other great Noldor and
how he spoke to Andreth and just how he spoke and thought in general
just made me fall totally in love with him. (And I wish I could see a
piece of writing where Tolkien himself shows another Silm Elf as up
close and personal as he does with Finrod there, you know?)

My second favorite Elf is Maglor (he caught my attention with the love
between him and Elrond and Elros, and with wanting to rescind the
Oath), followed closely by Maedros, and I'm also a fan of Elrond,
Glorfindel, Finarfin (I just get the impression that if I had a
collection of Plush Noldor, I'd find myself wanting to hug Finarfin
the most every time I walked by), and Nerdanel (wow, a female Elf
who's admirability and virtue isn't obvious in her stunning beauty! :P)

And why I'm here: I've been lurking quietly around the LJ community
for a while, and figured, "Why not see what the Yahoo community's
like, as well?" I have no fanfiction to offer and don't know if I'm a
great discusser or anything, but I have been thinking about seeking a
decent Silmarillion group for a while, so I guess we'll see...

*waves shyly* Hullo! Hope I didn't bore anyone to death with all
that... if there's anything else you want to know about me, I guess my
Yahoo profile or my LiveJournal profile are the places to look...

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20401_1157210851_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20401_1157210851_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 559 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59511 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2006 16:59:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2006 16:59:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2006 16:59:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 16:58:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 16:58:56 -0000 Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 16:58:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <090220061527.20401.44F9A2E3000D006F00004FB122058860140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Niki the Wanderer" Subject: Re: A newbie says a rambly hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=CVxviXO7uy6iG3D_SwEnGUb3RxEFAlUqaFQ677gHP7KLQHZq6w X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes Thanks :) > I'm always pleasantly surprised by the number of people in the= Silm fandom because of the movies. Say what you will about Peter Jackson's= portrayal and interpretation of things, but at least he got people interes= ted who would not have otherwise discovered Middle-earth! Me too! Why is i= t such a comfort to know I'm not the only one who was introduced through th= e movies, considering I've never actually seen anyone act all "Nyah nyah, I= 'm a better fan because I read the books first!"? (Perhaps because I like t= he movies despite the flak purists give them?) And yeah... whatever issues = I have with the movies myself, I think Jackson and Co. handled the project = pretty well--besides entertaining a lot of people for all the hours the mov= ies lasted, they made old fans reread the books and new fans pick them up f= or the first time. > I'm with you there too! I generally look up my favor= ite characters in the index and read what is said about them. :^P But we ar= e getting ready to start a HoMe reading here, so maybe that will help motiv= ate us both. Heh heh, I think I've done that, myself. ;) And that sounds l= ike fun... > I think that I've always been attracted to writing and discus= sing the Sil (whereas I play in no other fandoms except a teensy-tiny bit i= n LotR) *because* of this; because there's so little information and, in ma= ny cases, no absolutes, so it's like putting together a puzzle or solving a= mystery. For example, in my stories, I make Maedhros diplomatic and Celego= rm needy, and this is based off lots of tiny details and connections and de= ductions made over the years. It seems much more fun to me than having a re= ady-made character complete with a ready-made personality, motivations, and= history. As much as I like a good puzzle, I'm afraid I generally prefer h= aving as much "official" information as possible... I just like to "know" t= hings and be certain about my "knowledge" (and don't always trust my own ju= dgment, or else am just bored by having to do the work myself), I guess, bu= t on the plus side in regards to fanfiction, that means that it's actually = a *really* good feeling when I read a fanfic that tricks me into thinking t= hat what information I'm gathering about a character from a story is "offic= ial." I guess that's what leads me to read fanfic in the first place--I w= ant knowledge I can't get from canon, and have to get it from fandom, even = if I have to trick myself into thinking someone else's interpretation *coul= d* be "truth." > So welcome again, and I hope that you enjoy the compa= ny. :) Thanks again, and I'm sure I shall :) --- In SilmarillionWriter= sGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > > Hi, Niki! > I'm so plea= sed to see you here! :) Yahell actually sent me the "new member" notificati= on this time (it forgot for two of the four new members last month, so I wa= s pleasantly surprised when time came to write the welcomes in the newslett= er!), but I did not recognize your email. Bad 'gund.... > > Your story sou= nds a lot like mine, actually. :) I was forced into reading "The Hobbit" in= an "Academically Talented English" class in fifth grade and pretty much ha= ted it. Next year, it was FotR; I made it through two chapters of that befo= re officially deciding to pretty much hate it too and reading no further. (= That may have actually been the first time that I didn't finish the assigne= d book and coasted by on the essays and exams based on hearsay and common s= ense alone! :^P) When the movies came out, I loved them and sought the book= , then couldn't get enough and picked up the Sil, and the rest is history. = :) > > I'm always pleasantly surprised by the number of people in the Silm= fandom because of the movies. Say what you will about Peter Jackson's port= rayal and interpretation of things, but at least he got people interested w= ho would not have otherwise discovered Middle-earth! > > > Since the Silm,= I've been trying to trudge my way through the rest of HoME, but that's no = small task--there are a few gems of passages here and there, but I'll admit= sometimes it's a real chore. > > I'm with you there too! I generally look= up my favorite characters in the index and read what is said about them. := ^P But we are getting ready to start a HoMe reading here, so maybe that wil= l help motivate us both. > > > And then there are the characters--aggravat= ing because of how little is said about some of my favorites, but they're j= ust very memorable, all the same... > > I think that I've always been attr= acted to writing and discussing the Sil (whereas I play in no other fandoms= except a teensy-tiny bit in LotR) *because* of this; because there's so li= ttle information and, in many cases, no absolutes, so it's like putting tog= ether a puzzle or solving a mystery. For example, in my stories, I make Mae= dhros diplomatic and Celegorm needy, and this is based off lots of tiny det= ails and connections and deductions made over the years. It seems much more= fun to me than having a ready-made character complete with a ready-made pe= rsonality, motivations, and history. > > Erm...that's a bit off-topic from= what you said.... :^P > > > My very favorite character of all-time would = have to be Finrod > > *coughcough* *points to pen name* Not that I would a= gree with you here or anything.... ;) > > > And why I'm here: I've been lu= rking quietly around the LJ community for a while, and figured, "Why not se= e what the Yahoo community's like, as well?" > > We're a nice bunch of peo= ple, a new and growing group (that now has 51 members as of yesterday--*squ= ee!*) but I am often in awe of the knowledge and insight that people have a= nd are willing to share around here. We're going to someday have our own we= bsite (but I suppose you know that by now) but the webmaster is very slow w= ith things (and I suppose you know that too!) > > So welcome again, and I = hope that you enjoy the company. :) > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund = > Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo= .bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund > > Are you a relentless First-Ager? > Check ou= t the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bm= l?user=3Dsilwritersguild. > ~oOo~ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 560 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40750 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2006 18:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2006 18:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2006 18:48:51 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 318EB58068 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:48:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:48:25 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <352075387.20060902204825@tlen.pl> To: Niki the Wanderer In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] A newbie says a rambly hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=xwCv9tNjpuSMGMqOg0vmU1c1PePqdiTzH0LR7GzKOCeZ6dyofOY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Niki, NtW> *waves shyly* Hullo! Hope I didn't bore anyone to death with all that... What an interesting introduction! Welcome in, nice to see you here, too :) Voices whisper that small love has Sirielle ever had for the LotR and the Hobbit. Some say these are only gossips spoken by evil tongues, some say this is truth.... She favours the Silmarillion above others, that is certain. NtW> My very favorite character of all-time would have to be Finrod--while NtW> I was reading the Silm, he was just kind of a cool character I didn't NtW> pay much attention to (plus there was the fact that there was little NtW> reason (such as kinslayings) *not* to like him that I could remember), Ahhh, he didn't participate in the kinslaying. Only Fingon apart of F�anorions has got blood on his hands... Or maybe it is that Finrod didn't want to tell Elw� all the truth about Alqualond�? I agree that studying the legendary created by JRRT is like studying ancient history ^_^ Especially when one has to push their way through dustied HoME scrolls written in this barbarian language of the West ;) You're lucky native speakers!! Fortunatelly "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth" has been translated into Polish. Still this is not an easy text and leaves a lot of things to ponder about. And reveals how much more complicated the world of E� is :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 561 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72999 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2006 20:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2006 20:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.188) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2006 20:20:24 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.123] by n21.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 20:20:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 20:20:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2006 20:20:02 -0000 Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 20:20:01 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: A newbie says a rambly hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=O3R_H63MaUbeQJjzXFEZlCPAIb-VA1C_jOfMKq-C4cd6eIhq3TOYxkA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Niki the Wanderer" wrote: > > Umm... hi! Obviously, I'm new here, and this is the f= irst time in a > LONG while that I've joined a group like this (the *very* = first time > ever on Yahoo, certainly). So I'm a bit shy here and for all I= know, > the link I *think* is meant to post a message is really posting > = embarrassing pictures of everybody to a high-speed website and will > get a= crowd of you with flames and pitchforks chasing me out at top > speed or s= omething. ;) Sorry... LOL. Well if you want too ;c) > Anyway, I'm Niki, b= ut if you hang around LiveJournal, you may very > well have seen me harrass= one of your friends (or possibly even you) > with a rambly comment left un= der the name of Pulsarkat. I'm 23 years > old, have a degree in English wit= h emphasis on creative writing (not > an honor meant to be mistaken for "ac= tually a decent writer" ;)), > and am currently unemployed but trying to g= o back to school to get a > degree in Computer Science. Ah, that is an in= teresting combination! I think I saw your lj-name come by ... > And I've n= ever written fanfiction in my life--at least not yet. But > I love reading = (and discussing) it, and I find that throughout my > life, there's always = been one fandom above all others that, while I > don't quite *obsess* abou= t it, I can't seem to get bored with > researching it. Currently, that fan= dom for me is Tolkien, or most > specifically, the Silmarillion. LotR and = the Hobbit are cool, too, > but just don't hold my attention the same way.= Well I started out as a reader & reviewer and slowly got encouraged in w= riting. I used to start out with a love for Rangers and Numenoreans (my fir= st stories featured Aragorn & Isildur), but by now I am almost completely a= ssimilated by those Feanorians, Maglor and Celegorm in particular. > My = (slightly shortened, if you'll believe it when you read it) > life's story= with Tolkien: My mom tried to get me into Tolkien when > I was 11 or 12 y= ears old, but I judged "The Hobbit" by its > cutesiness" and by the fact t= hat it was more "fantasy-ish" than the > sorts of science fiction I loved = at the time and refused to touch > it. > > When I was 18, The Lord of th= e Rings came out in theaters, and my > dad, who had been a fan of Tolkien'= s since he was 18 (and later > admitted to me he couldn't read Tolkien bef= ore he was 18 either), > insisted on taking us for Christmas. I was thorou= ghly impressed: the > costumes, the music, the scenery, the languages... th= ere was no way > I couldn't read the books after seeing the first movie. = Wow! I am kinda stuck in between. My husband told me so many times over to= read the Lords of the Rings, given my absolute love for fantasy. I tried t= o get through the fellowship of the ring 4 times and only the last time the= re was a spark once Aragorn popped up. So just when I read the whole Glorfi= ndel kicks serious Nazgul ass chapter, we went to see the movie Fellowship = of the Ring, and I was enchanted! I think I started to mutter out loud when= I saw Arwen popping up (I was so looking forward to Glorfindel ;)) and the= next day I got floored by a nasty and heavy flue. Those three weeks in bed= I had Lotr to keep me occupied when I was awake and I think I finished tha= t in one rush. I really needed to read more of that and I did. :c) > Whic= h I did (and also read The Hobbit as well), and the characters > who stood= out the most to me were surprisingly not the hobbits or > the "Men" (why = do I think of deodorant commercials everytime I see > that capitalized wor= d? :P), but the Elves--I admit I'm fascinated by > the intelligent and anc= ient, both when they're kind and wise, and > when they're flawed and the c= onflict is largely generated by the > fact that the rest of the world has = to deal with their mistakes in > the past. Interesting huh? But then t= he Edain live with so much passion and vigour... and they are so nice to ba= the too... *ahem* > When I was done with LotR and The Hobbit, naturally I = wanted more. > So I went to the bookstore and saw that there was indeed mo= re--a LOT > more, and decided to start with the Silmarillion, seeing how th= at > seemed logical. I fell in love after the first few chapters. Since > = the Silm, I've been trying to trudge my way through the rest of > HoME, bu= t that's no small task--there are a few gems of passages > here and there,= but I'll admit sometimes it's a real chore. O_o > Currently, I'm nearing = the end of The Lost Road and Other Writings > (which has a large white "5"= on it). The Lost Road is one of my absolute favourites! A wealth of info= rmation about Numenor is in there. > Tolkien interests me personally becau= se, well, I've always had a > fascination with other times and cultures, an= d I apparently have > this rule of "the older, the better" (I've appreciat= ed ancient > civilization units more than World War units in any history c= lass > I've ever taken), but I'm also interested in my (and other fans') = > reactions to his tales. His "old cultures" almost seem believable to > me= , and as I watched the movies and read the books, I wanted to > learn more= about them. And then there are the > characters--aggravating because of h= ow little is said about some of > my favorites, but they're just very memo= rable, all the same... I think that when you re-read the Silmarillion or = any other work for that matter, you discover the layers, the gems you know.= I frequently have that when I do research and end up really suprised about= that character. > Furthermore, he concocts this "myth," apparently for h= imself, but > you see his son publishing all these little notes and detail= s about > it after his death, people paying money for them, discussing and= > debating (and sometimes wanking over ^_^;) them, creating theories > a= bout them, writing fanfiction about them... it almost feels like an > actua= l ancient religion or something at times. And then, of course, > there are= things like characters who barely have *anything* > canonical said about = them getting people fanatical and "lusting" > after them... I can't help b= ut be interested in that. (That is, of > course, not unique to Tolkien's f= andom, but as I'm currently looking > at Tolkien's fandom for myself, that'= s the fandom I'm seeing this > in.) LOL, well, sometimes a character get= s under your skin. I have that in particular with Maglor and I just love to= see how others write him, explore him and come up with such different pers= pectives. I think that I am sometimes so pleasantly surprised when I read s= omething where you thought that would be your verse or opinion before, you = suddenly find a fellow writer almost at the same wavelength. > My very fav= orite character of all-time would have to be > Finrod--while I was reading= the Silm, he was just kind of a cool > character I didn't pay much attent= ion to (plus there was the fact > that there was little reason (such as ki= nslayings) *not* to like him > that I could remember), but when I got to re= ad "Athrabeth Finrod ah > Andreth," the combination of how he was more of = a philosopher than > most other great Noldor and how he spoke to Andreth a= nd just how he > spoke and thought in general just made me fall totally in= love with > him. (And I wish I could see a piece of writing where Tolkien= > himself shows another Silm Elf as up close and personal as he does > w= ith Finrod there, you know?) Well with the Silm you just have simply a lot= of narrative going on and an incredibly world- and character building. I s= ometimes wish that Tolkien would have written more instead of finetuning ev= ery detail (I am reading his biography now, really great) > My second fav= orite Elf is Maglor (he caught my attention with the > love between him an= d Elrond and Elros, and with wanting to rescind > the Oath), followed clos= ely by Maedros, and I'm also a fan of > Elrond, Glorfindel, Finarfin (I ju= st get the impression that if I > had a collection of Plush Noldor, I'd fi= nd myself wanting to hug > Finarfin the most every time I walked by), and = Nerdanel (wow, a > female Elf who's admirability and virtue isn't obvious = in her > stunning beauty! :P) :) No Beleg C=FAthalion? He's great too! = > And why I'm here: I've been lurking quietly around the LJ community > for= a while, and figured, "Why not see what the Yahoo community's > like, as w= ell?" I have no fanfiction to offer and don't know if I'm > a great discuss= er or anything, but I have been thinking about > seeking a decent Silmaril= lion group for a while, so I guess we'll > see... You never know! But we= lcome on board! > *waves shyly* Hullo! Hope I didn't bore anyone to death= with all > that... if there's anything else you want to know about me, I g= uess > my Yahoo profile or my LiveJournal profile are the places to look..= . Nah, I liked your introduction, it made me go like: yeah me to or hey I = recognise that! I hope you have a great time here! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 562 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73453 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2006 12:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Sep 2006 12:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2006 12:06:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Sep 2006 12:04:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Sep 2006 12:04:24 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:04:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <082820061411.20552.44F2F98D0007ECC90000504822007347480B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Another man's cage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=iT3K0ve-z4F0VLVS_6UBLZESIGlyXP5CxtojZfS-Fb4KYZgVCO99Rpl1 X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses Hi, Dawn I've just finished reading AMC and I wanted to tell you how much I= enjoyed it (I'll have to start rereading it to get my daily dose of elve= nness) I have to go back on my earlier idea that Nelyo was being too nice. = There's a wonderful comment by one of the little ones (Findekano? I can't= find the quote) that goes something like his beauty doesn't come mainly f= rom his perfect face but from the fact that he puts other people's needs a= head of his own. Really lovely. Poor kid, he's really messed up at the end= . I don't terribly like Annawende but I think that's just jealousy on my p= art. One of the best character developments is Makalure who starts as chil= dish and awkward and grows up into a guy who you can easily imagine in the= future breaking the heart of every Noldor in Beleriand with a song, then = turning round, drawing his sword and killing Uldor. I wouldn't like to be = in your shoes writing about him at the Alqualonde kinslaying, though. You = wanted to know what happened to him after throwing the Silmaril into the s= ea? In my opinion, he decided to stay here (no fading, or going mad or oth= er sissy stuff) He was the last surviving Son of Feanor and that means tou= gh. He wouldn't go back to Valinor and ask the Valar to forgive him. I thi= nk he wanted to return with Maedhros and the Silmarils because that would = have meant some sort of healing but after Maedhros's suicide and the loss = of the stones, what point was there in going back? There's a very nice sto= ry where he stays over and spends the millenia looking after orphaned kids= . All this and AMC convinced me even more of the inevitability of the Nold= or rebellion. Of course, Feanor and the Silmarils played a key role in the= actual events but I think that in the long run, things would have gone la= rgely the same way without them. What did the rational, practical Noldor h= ave in Valinor? The Vanyar had faith and worship, the Teleri, art but it's= hard to have scientific revolutions in a place where the gods are the kee= pers of learning ("Listen Manwe boy, I think your explanation of the origi= n of the universe/evolution/the psyche/you name it sucks. Mine is much be= tter"). Exploration can only go so far if Middle Earth was off bounds. Pro= duction of wealth per se doesn't fit elven society. So after the first 10 = or 20 thousand years of bliss, what do you do? This turned out much longer = than I had planned. I apologize for rambling. I also found out that Last S= aturday was your birthday (I'm sure one of the reasons for misunderstandin= gs between North and South Americans is the way we read the same dates, th= ough I agree that the 9th day of the 16th month doesn't make much sense he= re)I hope you had a great day and that this year will be just as great Bes= t regards Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 563 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20405 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2006 18:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Sep 2006 18:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (63.240.77.83) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2006 18:24:49 -0000 Received: from smailcenter44.comcast.net ([204.127.205.144]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <200609201824440130046b78e>; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:24:44 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter44.comcast.net; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:24:30 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:24:30 +0000 Message-Id: <092020061824.11941.4511875E0009F7C000002EA522007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_11941_1158776670_0" X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Another man's cage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=bcKxqJswBMC4U3OTVdEorhpBTQtSkl6yp0kuRUzNELA4r0shYbzw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_11941_1158776670_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Angelica! > I've just finished reading AMC and I wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed it Firstly, thank you! Secondly, wow! It's a very long story, and it didn't really take you long at all! *is impressed* :) > I have to go back on my earlier idea that Nelyo was being too nice. There's a wonderful comment by one of the little ones (Findekano? I can't find the quote) that goes something like his beauty doesn't come mainly from his perfect face but from the fact that he puts other people's needs ahead of his own. I've always seen this in the canon. He took on the most dangerous post in northern Beleriand, even after experiencing Angband firsthand. I have also imagined that he was the only Feanorian captured by Melkor because he would not let his brothers go along. (I cannot believe that the sons of Feanor--at least a few of them--would not leap to the chance to meet with Morgoth.) No matter how much trouble his brothers cause him, he smooths over their mistakes and takes them in. This was really instrumental for me in shaping his character; he is a foil to Feanor in many ways. > I don't terribly like Annawende but I think that's just jealousy on my part. *evil grin* I don't like her either and I *know* that's jealousy on my part! If someone was to say, "Dawn, you clearly wrote Maedhros like you did because you have the hots for him," I would have to nod and say, "Yep, you got me!" :^P > One of the best character developments is Makalure who starts as childish and awkward and grows up into a guy who you can easily imagine in the future breaking the heart of every Noldor in Beleriand with a song, then turning round, drawing his sword and killing Uldor. It was funny because when I started this story, I did not have a Macalaure muse at all. And it seemed that *everyone* had a Macalaure muse. Not counting slash, he is probably the most written-about Feanorian, I think. But I never connected with him. I actually had my mind made up that he wouldn't get any chapters at all. Then, one day, I thought, "Why not?" and tried giving him a chapter. He quickly took over and became one of my favorite characters to write. I love the paradox about him that you point out: He is sensitive enough for making heartbreaking music and yet clearly strong and courageous too. Pansy!Maglor is one of my personal fanon peeves, if we're being honest. ;) What I wanted to do in this story was to show the evolution of a character who is strong enough to hold one of the most dangerous realms in Middle-earth, to slay a traitor, and the only one with courage enough to even consider forsaking the oath while also having the gifts to be named the second-greatest singer among the Elves. > I wouldn't like to be in your shoes writing about him at the Alqualonde kinslaying, though. Lol! I have set myself up, haven't I? And I gave him a half-Telerin wife too. Ai.... > You wanted to know what happened to him after throwing the Silmaril into the sea? In my opinion, he decided to stay here (no fading, or going mad or other sissy stuff) He was the last surviving Son of Feanor and that means tough. Every summer, I look for him among the street performers in Ocean City, Maryland. :) Without saying too much about my own story concerning this (that is probably thirty years in the future given the amount of epic left to write!), I agree that he stayed in "Middle-earth" to the point where he probably experienced a good deal of "modern" life. Actually, of the drabbles I've written so far, most are about him surviving into some sort of recent historical period. I have lots of ideas that don't necessarily keep with this idea, but I've only found myself writing those that do. I think that says something about my preferences as an author! > All this and AMC convinced me even more of the inevitability of the Noldor rebellion. Of course, Feanor and the Silmarils played a key role in the actual events but I think that in the long run, things would have gone largely the same way without them. Oh, I'd never thought of it in this particular way before! I've always believed that Feanor was probably very bored in Valinor, hence the idea that I tend to develop in my stories that he has a bit of an obsession with the culture and history of the "Outer Lands" and also loves to travel to places that seem forbidding to the other Eldar. I'd never thought particularly of the possibility of their society evolving to a standstill, but that makes sense. An idea that I've considered in my Silm fanfiction and also in my original work as well is the idea that living in paradise--while it affords the opportunity to develop extensive knowledge, technology, science, et cetera--must make one feel rather worthless after a while. I see this as one of Feanor's motivations too. (Again, not necessarily canon per se, but just how I put the canon together to make sense of things.) While he did great things in Valinor, what did he really accomplish of significance? He created beauty and joy, but his work couldn't advance civilization in the same way that it might in Middle-earth. For example, he invented Feanorian lamps--stones that hold light--but what good were they in a realm that was always light? Not nearly as good as they would have been in Middle-earth. Even the Silmarils--while lovely and still adored in Valinor--would have been much more valuable in Middle-earth and may have done some good for people who did not otherwise have access to that sort of light. (Seeing as the Silmarils seem to have healing qualities, if we believe Elwing's assertions for wanting to keep them around.) > This turned out much longer than I had planned. I apologize for rambling. My reply turned out much longer than planned too, so it must be going around. :^P And no need to apologize...I don't think that I can tire of discussing these things, and the new ideas are not only exciting for me but unleashing droves of plotrabbits! >:oE > I also found out that Last Saturday was your birthday (I'm sure one of the reasons for misunderstandings between North and South Americans is the way we read the same dates, though I agree that the 9th day of the 16th month doesn't make much sense here)I hope you had a great day and that this year will be just as great Thank you! (And for the record, I prefer your way of writing dates, though it leads to terrible confusion here at home. ;) ) It was a great day, though I pulled a muscle the day after my birthday from hauling my scuba gear around, so I've been hobbling about like an old lady since. And I'm only 25, so that's a bit too young to be feeling (and acting!) over the hill! :^P Best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_11941_1158776670_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, Angelica!
> I've just finished reading AMC and I wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed it
 
Firstly, thank you! Secondly, wow! It's a very long story, and it didn't really take you long at all! *is impressed* :)
 
> I have to go back on my earlier idea that Nelyo was being too nice. There's a wonderful comment by one of the little ones (Findekano? I can't find the quote) that goes something like his beauty doesn't come mainly from his perfect face but from the fact that he puts other people's needs ahead of his own.
 
I've always seen this in the canon. He took on the most dangerous post in northern Beleriand, even after experiencing Angband firsthand. I have also imagined that he was the only Feanorian captured by Melkor because he would not let his brothers go along. (I cannot believe that the sons of Feanor--at least a few of them--would not leap to the chance to meet with Morgoth.) No matter how much trouble his brothers cause him, he smooths over their mistakes and takes them in. This was really instrumental for me in shaping his character; he is a foil to Feanor in many ways.
 
> I don't terribly like Annawende but I think that's just jealousy on my part.
*evil grin* I don't like her either and I *know* that's jealousy on my part! If someone was to say, "Dawn, you clearly wrote Maedhros like you did because you have the hots for him," I would have to nod and say, "Yep, you got me!" :^P
 
> One of the best character developments is Makalure who starts as childish and awkward and grows up into a guy who you can easily imagine in the future breaking the heart of every Noldor in Beleriand with a song, then turning round, drawing his sword and killing Uldor.
 
It was funny because when I started this story, I did not have a Macalaure muse at all. And it seemed that *everyone* had a Macalaure muse. Not counting slash, he is probably the most written-about Feanorian, I think. But I never connected with him. I actually had my mind made up that he wouldn't get any chapters at all.
 
Then, one day, I thought, "Why not?" and tried giving him a chapter. He quickly took over and became one of my favorite characters to write. I love the paradox about him that you point out: He is sensitive enough for making heartbreaking music and yet clearly strong and courageous too. Pansy!Maglor is one of my personal fanon peeves, if we're being honest. ;) What I wanted to do in this story was to show the evolution of a character who is strong enough to hold one of the most dangerous realms in Middle-earth, to slay a traitor, and the only one with courage enough to even consider forsaking the oath while also having the gifts to be named the second-greatest singer among the Elves.
 
> I wouldn't like to be in your shoes writing about him at the Alqualonde kinslaying, though.
Lol! I have set myself up, haven't I? And I gave him a half-Telerin wife too. Ai....
 
> You wanted to know what happened to him after throwing the Silmaril into the sea? In my opinion, he decided to stay here (no fading, or going mad or other sissy stuff) He was the last surviving Son of Feanor and that means tough.
 
Every summer, I look for him among the street performers in Ocean City, Maryland. :) Without saying too much about my own story concerning this (that is probably thirty years in the future given the amount of epic left to write!), I agree that he stayed in "Middle-earth" to the point where he probably experienced a good deal of "modern" life. Actually, of the drabbles I've written so far, most are about him surviving into some sort of recent historical period. I have lots of ideas that don't necessarily keep with this idea, but I've only found myself writing those that do. I think that says something about my preferences as an author!
 
> All this and AMC convinced me even more of the inevitability of the Noldor rebellion. Of course, Feanor and the Silmarils played a key role in the actual events but I think that in the long run, things would have gone largely the same way without them.
 
Oh, I'd never thought of it in this particular way before! I've always believed that Feanor was probably very bored in Valinor, hence the idea that I tend to develop in my stories that he has a bit of an obsession with the culture and history of the "Outer Lands" and also loves to travel to places that seem forbidding to the other Eldar. I'd never thought particularly of the possibility of their society evolving to a standstill, but that makes sense. An idea that I've considered in my Silm fanfiction and also in my original work as well is the idea that living in paradise--while it affords the opportunity to develop extensive knowledge, technology, science, et cetera--must make one feel rather worthless after a while. I see this as one of Feanor's motivations too. (Again, not necessarily canon per se, but just how I put the canon together to make sense of things.) While he did great things in Valinor, what did he really accomplish of s ignificance? He created beauty and joy, but his work couldn't advance civilization in the same way that it might in Middle-earth. For example, he invented Feanorian lamps--stones that hold light--but what good were they in a realm that was always light? Not nearly as good as they would have been in Middle-earth. Even the Silmarils--while lovely and still adored in Valinor--would have been much more valuable in Middle-earth and may have done some good for people who did not otherwise have access to that sort of light. (Seeing as the Silmarils seem to have healing qualities, if we believe Elwing's assertions for wanting to keep them around.)
 
> This turned out much longer than I had planned. I apologize for rambling.
My reply turned out much longer than planned too, so it must be going around. :^P And no need to apologize...I don't think that I can tire of discussing these things, and the new ideas are not only exciting for me but unleashing droves of plotrabbits! >:oE
> I also found out that Last Saturday was your birthday (I'm sure one of the reasons for misunderstandings between North and South Americans is the way we read the same dates, though I agree that the 9th day of the 16th month doesn't make much sense here)I hope you had a great day and that this year will be just as great
 
Thank you! (And for the record, I prefer your way of writing dates, though it leads to terrible confusion here at home. ;) ) It was a great day, though I pulled a muscle the day after my birthday from hauling my scuba gear around, so I've been hobbling about like an old lady since. And I'm only 25, so that's a bit too young to be feeling (and acting!) over the hill! :^P
Best wishes,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_11941_1158776670_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 564 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70890 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2006 20:18:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Sep 2006 20:18:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2006 20:18:07 -0000 Received: from smailcenter44.comcast.net ([204.127.205.144]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060920201421012002h461e>; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:14:21 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter44.comcast.net; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:14:08 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:14:08 +0000 Message-Id: <092020062014.23851.4511A1100008303C00005D2B22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23851_1158783248_0" X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Theories about Maglor's Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=p2Zvq1zX7zz3EjvJ7S82fZEoMEgqnwB7fEQEG37PixV_jivsV0ZZ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23851_1158783248_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, all, Angelica mentioned in her email about my story AMC that I had been collecting ideas about the different fates that Sil researchers and writers envision for Maglor. And I'm glad that she did because I meant to post the same question over here and forgot. *facepalm* I am temporarily paused in working on fan fiction to concentrate on my original work. However, to keep the fanfic muscles flexed, I have started two projects that hopefully won't take over my life and will let me continue with my original writing. One of them is a series of drabble-series about the various fates that people envision for Maglor. I am using a variety of possibilities: common fanon ideas, canon-based possibilities, outcomes that place Maglor in major historical events et al. And I am looking for ideas! If you want me to write a drabble-series about Maglor's fate for you, just give me an idea, and I'll take it from there. Also, any common trends that people have noticed would be appreciated; for example, having Maglor meet Daeron has been done in several stories, as has having him meet up with Elladan and Elrohir sometime in the Fourth Age. I'd like to give a nod to common fanon outcomes, so any that you all know of would be appreciated. Thanks in advance and best wishes to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23851_1158783248_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, all,
Angelica mentioned in her email about my story AMC that I had been collecting ideas about the different fates that Sil researchers and writers envision for Maglor. And I'm glad that she did because I meant to post the same question over here and forgot. *facepalm*
 
I am temporarily paused in working on fan fiction to concentrate on my original work. However, to keep the fanfic muscles flexed, I have started two projects that hopefully won't take over my life and will let me continue with my original writing. One of them is a series of drabble-series about the various fates that people envision for Maglor. I am using a variety of possibilities: common fanon ideas, canon-based possibilities, outcomes that place Maglor in major historical events et al. And I am looking for ideas! If you want me to write a drabble-series about Maglor's fate for you, just give me an idea, and I'll take it from there. Also, any common trends that people have noticed would be appreciated; for example, having Maglor meet Daeron has been done in several stories, as has having him meet up with Elladan and Elrohir sometime in the Fourth Age. I'd like to give a nod to common fanon outcomes, so any that you all know of would be appreciated.
 
Thanks in advance and best wishes to all,
Dawn Felagund
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23851_1158783248_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 565 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46476 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2006 12:25:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2006 12:25:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2006 12:25:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Sep 2006 12:24:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Sep 2006 12:24:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:24:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <092020062014.23851.4511A1100008303C00005D2B22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=bpqE0EtxuAWsXuwiNcIwJ8WrPbOAVIoU6okxJyylTVaWJEbg8KlgeAA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Hi, all, > Angelica mentioned in her email about my story AMC that I had = been > collecting ideas about the different fates that Sil researchers and= > writers envision for Maglor. And I'm glad that she did because I > mea= nt to post the same question over here and forgot. *facepalm* That's okay.= I love the idea, but I am giving you the same answer as I did on LJ a whil= e ago. I have some theories drabbled or written and I am working on a large= r piece and for personal reasons (& bad experiences too) I rather keep my t= heories & bunnies regarding Maglor to myself. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 566 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26813 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2006 13:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2006 13:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.22) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2006 13:27:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Sep 2006 13:25:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Sep 2006 13:25:11 -0000 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:25:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <092020062014.23851.4511A1100008303C00005D2B22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Niki the Wanderer" Subject: Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=UcviRCKPVoEe9SDLE-bVA9VdGPux7lilvVh-ORcqkkALU7SYZg X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes "Maglor's fate" stories actually depress me, but here goes... My own imagi= nation, if I don't indulge in any stretches, usually has it pretty boring: = he just stays in Middle-Earth and is never confirmed to be seen again by El= ves, and any other races that might see him in their wanderings don't know = who he really is. People sometimes wonder what he's up to, and some people = sometimes wonder if that familiar face in the crowd *might* be him, but the= y're never sure. When I do "stretch" my imagination, maybe it's not "Magl= or" who never goes back among Elves, but he takes on another identity or so= mething. Cheap, yeah, but whatever. :P Otherwise, I'd also take interest in= the idea that the Silm's narrative isn't guaranteed to be "100% omnicient = truth" in this case and maybe the narrator was being poetic (or wishful?) a= bout Maglor's fate of eternal wandering. (It'd be fun if Maglor read that a= nd met up with that writer one day!) Let's see, fanon ideas I've run into.= .. Maglor meeting Elrond just before he sails with Galadriel and Frodo and = all them... Elrond seeking Maglor out just before he sails to beg him one l= ast time to come (or to say goodbye or whatever)... Elrond being sick or in= some other trouble and Maglor showing up in the nick of time to save him..= . other stuff I can't remember at the moment... Hope that helps somewhat = :) -Niki From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 567 Return-Path: X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30677 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2006 01:57:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2006 01:57:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc3-s2.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.202) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2006 01:57:59 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.9.245]) by bay0-omc3-s2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:57:59 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:57:59 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 207.46.9.251 by by120fd.bay120.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 01:57:54 GMT X-Originating-Email: [jilba25@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:57:54 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2006 01:57:59.0472 (UTC) FILETIME=[B212B300:01C6DEB3] Return-Path: jilba25@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Jillian Baade" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7317848; y=gtAPO4VzJ1tWgbrFIB3BFB9kRrxrpJce-Z5ax8sH1F9wZDdV X-Yahoo-Profile: jilba25au I see that Maglor stayed in touch with Elrond. He wanders about Middle-earth, mostly the sea and stops by Rivendell at times, using an assumed name. In my universe, he was one of the riders Elrond sent to seek Aragorn and the Hobbits as they came to Rivendell from Bree. Maglor could have been trusted not to seek the Ring, and he would be one of the few elves still alive who had lived in Valinor...and it was elves who had known the Blessed Realm Elrond sent out. Jillian >"Maglor's fate" stories actually depress me, but here goes... > >My own imagination, if I don't indulge in any stretches, usually has >it pretty boring: he just stays in Middle-Earth and is never confirmed >to be seen again by Elves, and any other races that might see him in >their wanderings don't know who he really is. People sometimes wonder >what he's up to, and some people sometimes wonder if that familiar >face in the crowd *might* be him, but they're never sure. > >When I do "stretch" my imagination, maybe it's not "Maglor" who never >goes back among Elves, but he takes on another identity or something. >Cheap, yeah, but whatever. :P Otherwise, I'd also take interest in the >idea that the Silm's narrative isn't guaranteed to be "100% omnicient >truth" in this case and maybe the narrator was being poetic (or >wishful?) about Maglor's fate of eternal wandering. (It'd be fun if >Maglor read that and met up with that writer one day!) > >Let's see, fanon ideas I've run into... Maglor meeting Elrond just >before he sails with Galadriel and Frodo and all them... Elrond >seeking Maglor out just before he sails to beg him one last time to >come (or to say goodbye or whatever)... Elrond being sick or in some >other trouble and Maglor showing up in the nick of time to save him... >other stuff I can't remember at the moment... > >Hope that helps somewhat :) > >-Niki > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 568 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67848 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2006 21:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2006 21:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.92) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2006 21:40:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Sep 2006 21:40:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Sep 2006 21:40:49 -0000 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:40:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <092020062014.23851.4511A1100008303C00005D2B22007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=cSxC03c8L9BANbXjN4Xj6e3ssQcgcUA5_8QQXYk-lpD3pQbRaP-59YWk X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: >= I am using a variety of possibilities: common fanon ideas, canon- based po= ssibilities, outcomes that place Maglor in major historical events et al. = And I am looking for ideas! >Also, any common trends that people have noti= ced would be appreciated; for example, having Maglor meet Daeron has been = done in several stories, as has having him meet up with Elladan and Elrohi= r sometime in the Fourth Age. I'd like to give a nod to common fanon outc= omes, so any that you all know of would be appreciated. As Maglor is one o= f my favourite elves, I've tried to read as many stories as I've been able= to lay my hands on so I think, there are a number of common outcomes for = him: *he meets other people form the Tolkien canon who, sometimes try to = talk him into going West (Daeron is a classic, Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf,= Boromir and Faramir when they were little boys) *he meets historical figu= res or is present at important historical events (the Trojan war, Dante, B= uddah, Ghandi, Rasputin, the fall of the Berlin Wall) *he meets Tolkien a= t the trenches *he lives unobtrusively into the 21th century singing in th= e Paris subway or in Californian beaches *he lives with Maedhros fightin= g the welfare state in Lipstick's wildly AU, marvelous series starting wit= h "Epilogue" Any other? Tell me. I'm in the mood for doing some research B= est wishes Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 569 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53336 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2006 21:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2006 21:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.127) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2006 21:57:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 98172 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Sep 2006 21:57:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20060923215721.98170.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.82.63.229] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:57:21 PDT Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:57:21 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-489641431-1159048641=:96581" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=LmQKy2S3tgq6UEI0nZ1uSdfgy41zqSWv1-lKyMMD1zgO_qH0PRz-Sgk X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-489641431-1159048641=:96581 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I rather like those two (related) theories. I also saw a challenge somewhere that was basically "What if Maglor came to Rivendell and took the name Erestor", which I found intriguing too. I also have seen a story where Maglor/his soul was basically trapped in a painting that moved (kind of like a Harry Potter style painting). For myself, I don't really have any theories, per se. I haven't given it much thought, aside from wandering down the beach and wishing he'd appear. ;-) And I rather like the theory of him assimilating into the "real world" and trying to be inconspicuous about being immortal and all that. But I haven't subscribed to any one theory yet, or come up with my own. Haven't thought much about it at all, really. ~Tarion Niki the Wanderer wrote: Let's see, fanon ideas I've run into... Maglor meeting Elrond just before he sails with Galadriel and Frodo and all them... Elrond seeking Maglor out just before he sails to beg him one last time to come (or to say goodbye or whatever)... ~T�rion --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. --0-489641431-1159048641=:96581 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I rather like those two (related) theories. I also saw a challenge somewhere that was basically "What if Maglor came to Rivendell and took the name Erestor", which I found intriguing too. I also have seen a story where Maglor/his soul was basically trapped in a painting that moved (kind of like a Harry Potter style painting).

For myself, I don't really have any theories, per se. I haven't given it much thought, aside from wandering down the beach and wishing he'd appear. ;-) And I rather like the theory of him assimilating into the "real world" and trying to be inconspicuous about being immortal and all that. But I haven't subscribed to any one theory yet, or come up with my own. Haven't thought much about it at all, really.

~Tarion

Niki the Wanderer wrote:
Let's see, fanon ideas I've run into... Maglor meeting Elrond just
before he sails with Galadriel and Frodo and all them... Elrond
seeking Maglor out just before he sails to beg him one last time to
come (or to say goodbye or whatever)...



~T�rion

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. --0-489641431-1159048641=:96581-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 570 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54362 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2006 22:11:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2006 22:11:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.171) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2006 22:11:23 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n4.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Sep 2006 22:09:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Sep 2006 22:09:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Sep 2006 22:09:58 -0000 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:09:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <092020061824.11941.4511875E0009F7C000002EA522007348400B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Another man's cage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=hHcV5VbkOtiyJ5QMGLuigV9ZI5Y_M3bO5bZIetkPhmV6f4dp9dB4gT-B X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses Hi, Dawn, > ! It's a very long story, and it didn't really take you long = at all! *is impressed* :) Thenk you! I've always been a fast reader but th= is was my first experience reading a loooong piece of fiction on a screen.= Well, I think I still prefer paper books and lying on the sofa. > Pansy!= Maglor is one of my personal fanon peeves, if we're being honest. ;) Mine = too! Maglor the Wimp bothers me almost as much as Maedhros the Thug. > = > I've always believed that Feanor was probably very bored in Valinor Yes, = I agree with you. My idea is that over the long run most of the Noldor wou= ld have become bored too. Feanor is only an early representative of a prob= able trend among them. Sooner or later Valinor would become some kind of d= ead end where few things would be challenging enough and original achievem= ents harder for people who enjoy studying, manufacturing, creating. >th= e idea that living in paradise--while it affords the opportunity to develo= p extensive knowledge, technology, science, et cetera--must make one feel = rather worthless after a while. And not only worthless but almost fruitless= and sterile. After all this is paradise and things are as good as they ca= n get. What's the point of trying to improve on them? Art, philosophy, tha= t might be different but Noldorin applied science with eternity ahead of y= ou? Best wishes Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 571 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42935 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2006 00:59:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2006 00:59:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.71) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2006 00:59:24 -0000 Received: from ibm66aec.bellsouth.net ([72.152.1.240]) by imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060925005923.HTUR13564.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm66aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:59:23 -0400 Received: from jerryhycpkuq27 ([72.152.1.240]) by ibm66aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060925005922.VVVY28021.ibm66aec.bellsouth.net@jerryhycpkuq27> for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:59:22 -0400 To: Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 04:10:10 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c6dfb0$de9b36b0$d5a4fea9@jerryhycpkuq27> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C6DF8F.578996B0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Subject: Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=T0PO3sDZtArgRTOiyG2X1JSwNZ7DcwRrLnNvy6iyYf8WgF00sNU X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C6DF8F.578996B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are some of the Maglor stories I have read which may or may not interest you. Hope they help! http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3818 http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=4281 http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3940 Ellie ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C6DF8F.578996B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
=

Here are some of the Maglo= r stories I have read which may or may not interest you. Hope they h= elp!

 

http://www.storiesofarda.com/= chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D3818

 

http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D4281

 

http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistvi= ew.asp?SID=3D3940

 

Ellie

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C6DF8F.578996B0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 572 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71586 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2006 12:11:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2006 12:11:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.173) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2006 12:11:26 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n6.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Sep 2006 12:07:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Sep 2006 12:07:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Sep 2006 12:07:06 -0000 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:07:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001601c6dfb0$de9b36b0$d5a4fea9@jerryhycpkuq27> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=YAeexR3aFRt8bshPzIbHEuHUC1jhmMkoSgclB1G4G9xPmYut-qH85Fg X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > = Here are some of the Maglor stories I have read which may or may not > inte= rest you. Hope they help! > > http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistvie= w.asp?SID=3D3818 > > http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID= =3D4281 > > http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D3940 = Oh well while we are at it. Letters in the sand (Maglor is trapped within = a circle regarding his fate and destiny & well, I think he's still on that = beach if you ask me) http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2406 Th= e Inner light (which is basically about Erestor, his history and his reason= s to remain that long on Middle Earth, all tied to Maglor) http://www.scrib= eoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2884 On the Shores of Redemption (Arda's mig= htiest singer reflects on his life.) http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.p= hp?no=3D2723&chapter=3D1 I really like this one (also since I love Ireland= so much) http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D704 This one is sp= ecial too http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D471 Another one by= Tinni: http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D702 This one is set = in present day: http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2899 Then th= ere is Maglor in Greece... Trojan War http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/= chapter_view.cfm?stid=3D2668&SPOrdinal=3D1 I fully support the Maglor work= ing at a gym nearby you theory though ;) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 573 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75875 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2006 12:15:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2006 12:15:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.77) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2006 12:15:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 17657 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2006 12:15:06 -0000 Received: from m098p019.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.180.51]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub78.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 25 Sep 2006 12:15:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <4517C8DE.00002B.01192@MARINA> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:17:34 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_A5E5WY02QL8000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=ncE_gJcpTTEgnaKgX18OaG1Dof59-2wGqim2bIWejXqU14HDEUzf X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_A5E5WY02QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow! that is a wonderful collection of links. And NOw I will read, read. re= ad.... Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: rhapsody_the_bard Date: 09/25/06 14:12:26 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate =20 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Here are some of the Maglor stories I have read which may or may not > interest you. Hope they help! >=20 > http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D3818 >=20 > http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D4281 >=20 > http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D3940 Oh well while we are at it. Letters in the sand (Maglor is trapped within a circle regarding his fate and destiny & well, I think he's still on that beach if you ask me) http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2406 The Inner light (which is basically about Erestor, his history and his reasons to remain that long on Middle Earth, all tied to Maglor) http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2884 On the Shores of Redemption (Arda's mightiest singer reflects on his life.) http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2723&chapter=3D1 I really like this one (also since I love Ireland so much) http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D704 This one is special too http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D471 Another one by Tinni: http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D702 This one is set in present day: http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2899 Then there is Maglor in Greece... Trojan War http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter_view.cfm?stid=3D2668&SPOrdina= l=3D1 I fully support the Maglor working at a gym nearby you theory though ;) Rhapsody =20 --------------Boundary-00=_A5E5WY02QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= TD id=3DINCREDIFOOTER width=3D"100%">
Wow! that is a wonderful collection of l= inks. And NOw I will read, read..read....
Marina 
 
-------Original Message-= ------
 
Date: 09/25/06 14:12:26
Subject: [SilmarillionWri= tersGuild] Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate
 
<= DIV id=3Dygrp-text>

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, &l= t;glenceol@...> wrote:
>
> Here are some of the Maglor = stories I have read which may or may not
> interest you. Hope they he= lp!
>
> http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D3818
>
> http://www.storiesofarda.com/= chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D4281
>
> http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D3940

Oh well wh= ile we are at it.

Letters in the sand (Maglor is trapped within a ci= rcle regarding his
fate and destiny & well, I think he's still on th= at beach if you ask me)
http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no= =3D2406

The Inner light (which is basically about Erestor, his h= istory and his
reasons to remain that long on Middle Earth, all tied to = Maglor)
h= ttp://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2884
On the Shores of Redemption (Arda's mightiest singer reflects on his
li= fe.)
http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D27= 23&chapter=3D1

I really like this one (also since I lov= e Ireland so much)
http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D704

This one is special too
http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?= no=3D471

Another one by Tinni:
http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D702

This one is set in present day:
http://www.scr= ibeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2899

Then there i= s Maglor in Greece... Trojan War
http://www.henneth= -annun.net/stories/chapter_view.cfm?stid=3D2668&SPOrdinal=3D1

I fully support the Maglor working at a gym= nearby you theory though ;)

Rhapsody

 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_A5E5WY02QL8000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 574 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5021 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2006 16:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2006 16:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc3-s23.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.223) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2006 16:02:39 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.26.26]) by bay0-omc3-s23.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:01:33 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:01:22 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.26.200 by by112fd.bay112.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:01:21 GMT X-Originating-Email: [atanwende@hotmail.com] X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:01:21 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2006 16:01:22.0416 (UTC) FILETIME=[D89AAF00:01C6E0BB] Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com From: "Unsung Heroine" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=Xg0YsfM5lbLtc9gt93xlWFODAMSMEAX_KzKRwkRl2AzlbRrY X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende >From: "angelica.ramses" >Reply-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate >Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:40:49 -0000 > >*he lives with Maedhros fighting the welfare state in Lipstick's wildly AU, >marvelous series starting with "Epilogue" Oh, I totally love those! :) Wow. That was my marvellously eloquent contribution to the discussion. ;) - UH :) _________________________________________________________________ Die neue MSN Suche Toolbar mit Windows-Desktopsuche. Suchen Sie gleichzeitig im Web, Ihren E-Mails und auf Ihrem PC! - http://desktop.msn.de/ Kostenlos downloaden! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 575 Return-Path: X-Sender: Fingolfin65@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27116 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2006 20:39:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2006 20:39:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.155) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2006 20:38:52 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.122] by n12.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2006 20:38:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2006 20:38:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2006 20:38:51 -0000 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:38:51 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Fingolfin" Subject: Fic: Walls of His Heart (Prologue/? * G-rated for now * Fingolfin/Ariannon-OC) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180869218; y=1YSsNeW6f6nChBe4EHwx17FpgdlU4_iPXm-wv00qDDQm X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 Title: Walls of His Heart Chapter: Prologue/? Author: phyncke Character(s):= Fingolfin and Ariannon (OC) Beta(s): jaiden_s (with reads by tuxedo_elf an= d khylea) Rating: G (this chapter) (may be NC-17/undecided) Disclaimer: I d= o not own these characters, they are the property of JRR Tolkien and his es= tate, and I have borrowed them for my own amusement and for yours I hope. F= eedback: Much appreciated. Summary: The tale of the love that develops betw= een the high king and his loyal arundar in the First Age. Set in Hithlum. A= uthor's Notes: This is a backstory for an RP character but I thought that i= t would make a good fiction arc. Walls of His Heart Prologue He dreamt of= it often; thought of it often; the sensation of falling through the icy su= rface with nothing to hold him and no warning. One moment he had been stan= ding in the wind, drinking from his water skin, lagging behind the others. = The next moment he was tumbling down into the dark crevice, a dull thud as = he hit the snowy bottom. He did not have time to call out to anyone. It was= that sudden. He looked up, blinking at the clouded sky through the jagged = hole he had made in the surface of the crusty layer. He was sure no one had= seen; surer still that he was going to die, alone in the wasteland. He tr= ied to climb, but it was no use. The walls were sheer ice, smooth, blue and= he had nothing to penetrate them with. His pack was lying useless above. H= e dug into the ice with his fingernails but did not make enough of an inden= tation to lift him from the bottom. "Helloooooo=85down there! Are you alri= ght? What is your name? I will get you. Do not be afraid! You are unhurt?" = A deep voice called down to him, and he looked up in surprise. He saw dark= hair surrounding a pale face peering over the edge but could not make out = enough to distinguish the features . "I am Ariannon...Be careful! You will= fall too!" "I will not. I am sending down a rope with knots at the bottom= . Hold onto it tightly and I will pull you up. Stop worrying so much about = me. You are the one down there, after all." There was a bit of laughter in= the voice, which had a calming effect on him. He would never forget the ot= her Elf's amusement at his fretting. He did have that tendency, it was true= , but the other would not know that about him, surely? The silver rope sli= thered through the air, dropping in fits and starts, closer and closer, shi= mmering in the fading light. Ariannon grabbed it when it reached him, gripp= ing it tightly with both fists. "I am ready!" "Good...up you come!" He f= elt the surge and was lifted off his feet. He held the rope with all his st= rength, keeping perfectly still. He rose at a steady, even pace, marveling = at the strength of his rescuer. As he got nearer the top, he could see him = straining, face furrowed in concentration, the muscles of his neck tense wi= th effort. "Almost got you....keep still now and I will pull you over the = top." He was lifted under his arms and hefted over the lip of the hole. Bo= th of them rolled, ending up laying facing each other on the icepack. His s= avior breathed hard, the air expelling from his lungs. The grey eyes looked= him over, checking for wounds and any lingering harm His rescuer asked him= gruffly, "You are well?" "Yes, my lord." "That is good. Your family is = with you? Shall we find them?" "They stayed behind, m-my lord." "Ahh... t= hen you will come with me now." And with that, his life irrevocably change= d. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 576 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82813 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2006 14:31:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Sep 2006 14:31:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.200.81) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2006 14:31:15 -0000 Received: from smailcenter42.comcast.net ([204.127.205.142]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060928134922011005tp3ae>; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:49:22 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter42.comcast.net; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:49:21 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:49:21 +0000 Message-Id: <092820061349.5058.451BD2E100034FD1000013C222007481840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5058_1159451361_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Theories about Maglor's Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=ni5rj0dxXMNMQYaaNy5WQUuj-H3BUM7nKqYdERdoE-8gu-bQdH8Q X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5058_1159451361_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, all, Thanks so much to everyone who sent along ideas and links about Maglor's fate. Wow, I've certainly got enough to get a good start on my project! I really appreciate the help. :) (And sorry for the slow reply. Real life has been...real. But in good news, I will finally be buying our webspace this week and yesterday looked into finally downloading the fiction archive shell that Viv so kindly recommended. So things *are* moving...albeit at a very slow pace.) Well, it's off to see if I can coax the muses out of hiding. Have a great day, everyone! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5058_1159451361_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, all,
Thanks so much to everyone who sent along ideas and links about Maglor's fate. Wow, I've certainly got enough to get a good start on my project! I really appreciate the help. :)
 
(And sorry for the slow reply. Real life has been...real. But in good news, I will finally be buying our webspace this week and yesterday looked into finally downloading the fiction archive shell that Viv so kindly recommended. So things *are* moving...albeit at a very slow pace.)
 
Well, it's off to see if I can coax the muses out of hiding. Have a great day, everyone!
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5058_1159451361_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 577 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73625 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2006 23:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2006 23:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.200.81) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2006 23:04:47 -0000 Received: from smailcenter42.comcast.net ([204.127.205.142]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20061001230243011006202ge>; Sun, 1 Oct 2006 23:02:43 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by smailcenter42.comcast.net; Sun, 01 Oct 2006 23:02:42 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 23:02:42 +0000 Message-Id: <100120062302.14834.452049110009E35D000039F222007481840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: October Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=9kwKTrIKiVd-rJ6D2VdWigAsMk-u2MKKFDc1OVOZzgQSeDek-UNt X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Check out the pretty version of our newsletter here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/64628.html Or read it here! ***October's Challenges*** The Nature of Fear The month of October, for many, is a time for celebrating that which is supernatural, misunderstood, or fearful. In Tolkien's universe, people and places are often scary. From Ered Gorgoroth to characters like Sauron and Gothmog, there is plenty that is dark and spooky in Tolkien's world! This month's challenge asks you to write a story that explores fear in some way. Whether you try to scare your readers with a horror story or show how a character perceives and reacts to fear, your goal is to gain a greater understanding of this powerful emotion through your writing. Here are some examples of stories that might fit this challenge: --A character is forced to journey to or through one of the darker regions of Arda: Angband, Avathar, or the Temple of Armenelos. What challenges does she or he face, both physical and psychological? How might such a journey change the character? --Explore some of the supernatural elements of The Silmarillion: the terror of Ered Gorgoroth, the debilitating power of Melkor's gaze in the depths of Angband, or what it means to use mind-speak or undergo re-embodiment in the Halls of Mandos. --Plenty of stories in The Silmarillion are scary with few or no supernatural elements at all: the Darkening of Valinor, the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, or Sauron's control of N�menor. --Tell a spooky legend or story that might have been part of your character's heritage or culture. How did the early Elves explain the disappearance of those captured by Melkor? How did the Edain perceive Melkor's influence in the world? What myths and beliefs surround death and afterlife? New Beginnings Most of our members are welcoming the autumn season and preparing for the cold months ahead, and it is easy to forget that for a good part of the world--and several of our members--the spring is warming toward summer. Whether you are feeling chilly at the thought of winter ahead or eagerly welcoming spring, this challenge asks you to write a story or poem celebrating new beginnings. Birth, marriage, first love, a journey to a new home, or the rebirth of hope following success in battle--all of these and more will satisfy this challenge! The Quote of the Month Challenge The Quote of the Month challenge asks you to write based on the themes and thoughts the quote inspires or about the event in which the quote occurred. You may write in any format--poem, story, essay, or drabble--with any characters, genre, or rating. �But as the host of Fingolfin marched into Mithrim the Sun rose flaming in the West; and Fingolfin unfurled his blue and silver banners, and blew his horns, and flowers sprang beneath his marching feet, and the ages of the stars were ended.� -The Silmarillion, �Of the Return of the Noldor� Character of the Month: Daeron A bard and loremaster of Doriath, Daeron is a fascinating character to explore in fiction. Whether pining for the unrequited love of L�thien Tin�viel or constructing the Cirth alphabet, Daeron is a complex and interesting character and a favorite in fan fiction. Similarly, Daeron's uncertain fate makes him a common subject of stories set in the future or speculating about his fate. How far into the future did he live? What historical events did he witness? Who did he meet that was important in the history of Middle-earth or our modern world today? A scholar, a traitor, and a musician of exceptional talents, Daeron's complexity as a character and contributions to the history of Arda are honored in this month's Character of the Month. Other Ongoing Challenges At SWG, challenges never die. You are welcome to write for a challenge at any time. All of our past challenges have been tagged and may be found at http://www.livejournal.com/community/silwritersguild/tag/challenge. A Call for New Challenges! At SWG, the challenges are for members to create! If you have an idea for a challenge, would like to suggest a quote for the monthly quote challenge, or would like to see your favorite character honored as our character of the month, please do not hesitate to suggest it on-list or email Jenni (Digdigil), our challenge coordinator, at elennf569@rogers.com. ***Welcomes and Birthdays*** Welcome to Lady Elleth, Phyncke, fauna_lind, Niki the Wanderer, and neldhw, our newest member to join our Yahoo! group in September! Welcome also to all who have joined or are watching our LiveJournal community. Fanged Geranium's birthday is 19 October. Her favorite characters are any of the Finwians, Celeborn, Turin, and Brandir, and her favorite chapters are Of the Flight of the Noldor, Of the Return of the Noldor, Of Maeglin, Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Of Turin Turambar, and Akallabeth. Happy birthday, Fanged Geranium! Do you want to get stories for your birthday and other special occasions? Sign up on our "Give Someone a Silmaril" database, located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/database or post your request to the list or the LiveJournal. ***News and Announcements*** Web Space Purchased! I am prepared to set up our domain silmarillionwritersguild.org> and purchase webspace for our archive and resources! ----- At any time, I encourage people--both members and non-members--to contact me with inquiries. I may be reached at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or through either the Yahoo! or LiveJournal groups. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 578 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61544 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2006 23:38:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2006 23:38:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2006 23:38:21 -0000 Received: from smailcenter62.comcast.net ([204.127.205.162]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20061001232320012002f6fne>; Sun, 1 Oct 2006 23:23:20 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by smailcenter62.comcast.net; Sun, 01 Oct 2006 23:23:56 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 23:23:56 +0000 Message-Id: <100120062323.23073.45204E0B000CB53700005A2122070016410B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: It's Official.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=dIapMVQdu6-U32vGHUCYS_57yjlc2HJtKT1x6c7kqgbIkrcE3dbt X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ...we now own the domain silmarillionwritersguild.org! I will begin moving pages from our current experimental webpage over the next couple of days (since it takes a couple of days for the domain to be active.) I've started reading up on the archive shell software, so one day when I'm feeling brave, I'll begin work on that too. (The good thing is that--now that I am paying for webspace--that should be sooner rather than later!) This is an exciting moment, and I just had to share.... :) Have a nice week everyone! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 579 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44656 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2006 02:20:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2006 02:20:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2006 02:20:34 -0000 Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.3f4.b64637f (40520) for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2006 22:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3f4.b64637f.3251d070@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 22:16:16 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1159755376" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] It's Official.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=AioVr7bdYGqquO-Lj0fLVJblC83L8YMd-rckIyiMilcp2qPix_FBgzt2aS4 -------------------------------1159755376 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/1/2006 7:45:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: ...we now own the domain silmarillionwritersguild.org! I will begin moving pages from our current experimental webpage over the next couple of days (since it takes a couple of days for the domain to be active.) I've started reading up on the archive shell software, so one day when I'm feeling brave, I'll begin work on that too. (The good thing is that--now that I am paying for webspace--that should be sooner rather than later!) Congratulations, Dawn! I know this is something you've been working toward a long time! Now if only I had a Silm-muse! Isabeau -------------------------------1159755376 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 10/1/2006 7:45:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast= .net writes:
...we now own the domain sil= marillionwritersguild.org!

I will begin moving pages from our cur= rent experimental webpage over the next couple of days (since it takes a= couple of days for the domain to be active.) I've started reading up on= the archive shell software, so one day when I'm feeling brave, I'll beg= in work on that too. (The good thing is that--now that I am paying for w= ebspace--that should be sooner rather than later!)
=
Congratulations, Dawn!  I know this is somethi= ng you've been working toward a long time!  Now if only I had a Silm-= muse!
 
Isabeau
 -------------------------------1159755376-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 580 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68085 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2006 18:38:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2006 18:38:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2006 18:38:21 -0000 Received: from smailcenter71.comcast.net ([204.127.205.171]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20061002183748012002heo5e>; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 18:37:48 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter71.comcast.net; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:37:48 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:37:48 +0000 Message-Id: <100220061837.19988.45215C7C0002AE6D00004E1422007636920B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19988_1159814268_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] It's Official.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=S0dyKan-Ov_zlJ2g-X18BfYkdviHBRRhHJ88Vppw9UVVg9AcLGbI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19988_1159814268_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, Isabeau! > Now if only I had a Silm-muse! You want one of mine? I seem to have too many.... :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19988_1159814268_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Thanks, Isabeau!
 
> Now if only I had a Silm-muse!
 
You want one of mine? I seem to have too many.... :)
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19988_1159814268_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 581 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78577 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2006 08:36:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2006 08:36:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2006 08:36:28 -0000 Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.522.38de8fc (14501) for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 04:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <522.38de8fc.32537b03@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 04:36:19 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1159864579" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] It's Official.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=glUTcBs2fFNHFSV6k5B_k23vEXvrOFU6Z2iQZU-Wmg_ccgeLYPNAy7y-Gps -------------------------------1159864579 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/2/2006 2:40:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: You want one of mine? I seem to have too many.... :) Dawn She'd just probably turn all contrary and dilatory, like my LOTR muse! Isabeau -------------------------------1159864579 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 10/2/2006 2:40:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast= .net writes:
You want one of mine? I= seem to have too many.... :)
Dawn
She'd just probably turn all contrary and dilatory, l= ike my LOTR muse!
 
Isabeau
= -------------------------------1159864579-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 582 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3873 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2006 07:25:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2006 07:25:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.150) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2006 07:25:57 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n7.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Oct 2006 07:25:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Oct 2006 07:25:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Oct 2006 07:25:44 -0000 Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 07:25:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Niki the Wanderer" Subject: Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=PQbVGk8AecEZzNxkIUHnafbiBMelrwQCONMixTbm5xpUIYAZcg X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes I was just looking at a picture with Maedhros and Maglor in it and noticed = that while Maedhros was dressed in colorful but practical clothing it'd be = easy to move about in, Maglor looked rather... well, like he was wearing a = dress it'd be easy to stain. Somehow, that lead me to realize that it se= ems like every time I read a Tolkien fanfic, an Elf is either dressed in "r= obes" (or a "gown" or "dress" if it's female), or "a tunic and leggings," o= r... well, whatever creative thing smut writers can put them in (or not in)= . I realize there are exceptions to that, but I don't encounter them very o= ften. And that in turn lead me to wonder... are any of these clothing idea= s based on more than just the LotR movie costumes and/or fannon? When I loo= ked at LotR (the book), I mainly saw either references to jewelry or orname= nts ("circlet of silver" or "girdle of leaves wrought in silver") or the co= lor of the clothes, but little more description than that ("he was clad in = green and brown" or "her rainment was of white" and that sort of thing)--th= e most specific descriptions I remember were that Glorfindel wore a cloak w= ith a hood, and Legolas wore shoes (whatever "shoes" are to an Elf)--I don'= t remember anything about "robes" or "leggings" (for all I know, Legolas wa= s clad in green and brown footie pajamas when he attended the Council of El= rond :P). And I don't recall that much more about the Silmarillion, besides= armor and jewelry and symbols and colors and all that. I could very well= be missing missing a huge part where Tolkien himself described a whole Elv= en wardrobe, of course, but I can only remember so many details at once. ;)= So out of curiousity, does anyone else have any more clues about how the = Elves dressed, besides their jewelry and armor and the colors they wore, or= else care to share their ideas? Like, which (if any) of the Elves could we= ar "robes" or other fancy clothing and which of even the wealthy or importa= nt Elves found it particularly impractical, how much did the clothing style= s of the Noldor have to change once they went to Middle-Earth, could any ge= nerations of Elves have done the "Kids these days wear such trashy clothes!= In my day, we wore actual PANTS over our underoos!" head-shakings, or anyt= hing anyone else wants to bring up... (silly or serious) (I'll save my "I = don't think Maglor needs to be portrayed as *that* much more girly than his= brothers!" ramblings for another time, I guess...) Right, shutting up no= w. ^_^; pulsarkat.livejournal.com From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 583 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65442 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2006 10:48:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2006 10:48:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2006 10:48:19 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CAD8B3A6F for ; Sun, 8 Oct 2006 12:47:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 12:47:15 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1501516905.20061008124715@tlen.pl> To: Niki the Wanderer In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=DHDxh0eeXSvMr9KTaVpC_Egi2BmXpQM2TrkVw4RnONG_lgDHJ_A X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Niki, NtW> I was just looking at a picture with Maedhros and Maglor in it and noticed that while Maedhros NtW> was dressed in colorful but practical clothing it'd be easy to move about in, Maglor looked NtW> rather... well, like he was wearing a dress it'd be easy to stain. Which one? NtW> And that in turn lead me to wonder... are any of these clothing ideas based on more than just NtW> the LotR movie costumes and/or fannon? I'm sure the style looked different in the first Age and I wouldn't base everything on LotR. I would rather try to avoid it. But indeed, that's style - robes and tunics. Looking at the universe they were wearing mainly clothes worn in Middle Ages, that will give a lot of tunics, pants (trousers, folks!), maybe also leggins etc.; gowns for girls. I am not specialist in this matter, but that's what I think. LotR clothes are very oriental, nice , but also impractical - try to do anything with these sleeves. Good only for standing on a balcony ;) If anyone has got better ideas I'm really curious. Personally I don't like the idea of Men in Tights ;) so I don't like leggins option. ["Robin Hood: Men in Tights"] Maybe world 'leggings' has got a wider meaning but what I see are aerobic clothes put on ;) So no, my elves wear leather trousers or more loose cotton breeches. Tunics of various kind and the robes on ceremonial occasions. Simple tunics to work. But in fact - I must see it first, then I will know what do they wear. I thing that in different realms they wore different style of clothes, according to the climate and some other factors. We know that Luthien wore simple blue gown - if I remember well. Was she unique, extravagant or statistical example of elven maiden? ;) That was warmer in Aman, I suspect, no winter and freezing cold, so different style. Different clothes for Vanyar and Teleri, different for Noldor. And different for Sindar beyond the sea. NtW> When I looked at LotR (the book), I mainly saw either NtW> references to jewelry or ornaments ("circlet of silver" or "girdle of leaves wrought in NtW> silver") or the color of the clothes, but little more description than that Maybe author of this book was not so keen in styles? ;) Or it wasn't important. Wasn't Galadriel's dress described more? NtW> for all I know, Legolas was clad in green and brown footie pajamas when he attended the Council NtW> of Elrond :P What are footie pajamas? Sounds oriental XD NtW> Like, which (if any) of the Elves could wear "robes" or other fancy clothing In Aman every one at celebrations. In ME - no idea, maybe all folks had some clothes for celebrations when elves finally settled in ME - talking of Noldor - but maybe only royalties? Poor Luthien, a princess had only one simple blue gown :( ;) No idea. NtW> and which of even the wealthy or important Elves That's another question if there were wealthy elves among them or more or less the same level of wealths plus importance of being a king? Some people invent money in Aman or in ME, I wouldn't go that far. No money in Aman, F�anor was first who didn't want to share with others, the rest of folks for sure were exchanging goods all the time. As presents, trade, out of boredom and for fun. It might play a role when Noldor entered ME and had to survive in harsher conditions. But still no money, rather barter. E�l pays with a sword for Nan Elmoth, that;s the only example of trade I remember now. NtW> could any generations of Elves have done the "Kids these days wear such trashy clothes! In my NtW> day, we wore actual PANTS over our underoos!" Hehhe, did they wear pants in Middle Ages? I'm afraid underwear we know is quite new invention. I think the styles changed, but I was discussing it with someone just yesterday and she thinks elves age differently so they change their styles differently, too - very slowly. So there would be no great differences ion elvish clothing styles in years. For me they had too much time on hands and were to creative to wear the same every year ;) NtW> (I'll save my "I don't think Maglor needs to be portrayed as *that* much more girly than his NtW> brothers!" ramblings for another time, I guess...) You need to link me that pic, if not in public, than in priv. I need to know what you didn't like to see on Maglor, since I still owe you the kiriban ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 584 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17122 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2006 11:21:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2006 11:21:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.174) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2006 11:21:25 -0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id z36so500733uge for ; Sun, 08 Oct 2006 04:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.19 with SMTP id w19mr5470390ugg; Sun, 08 Oct 2006 04:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.34.250]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id x37sm56761ugc.2006.10.08.04.20.11; Sun, 08 Oct 2006 04:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4528DEF0.3010604@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 13:20:16 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=ijyqfqZtvQJO8f8H8hpiMayF0plhyOZK-iCG8ABKynXJtlV1_UBopiw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Niki the Wanderer wrote: > I was just looking at a picture with Maedhros and Maglor in it and > noticed that while Maedhros was dressed in colorful but practical > clothing it'd be easy to move about in, Maglor looked rather... well, > like he was wearing a dress it'd be easy to stain. Well I can think of several reasons why Maglor and a robe would be ten thousand times more practical, but I think my mind just plunged into the sewers thinking: Maglor needs no pants. > Somehow, that lead me to realize that it seems like every time I read > a Tolkien fanfic, an Elf is either dressed in "robes" (or a "gown" or > "dress" if it's female), or "a tunic and leggings," or... well, > whatever creative thing smut writers can put them in (or not in). I > realize there are exceptions to that, but I don't encounter them very > often. Well. Here is a different view. I have a hard time with narrative and descriptions. Most of the time the image I have in my head gets lost in translation because I simply cannot come up with the correct terminology for clothing. So well, if I can get away with it, I skip it. I don't want to jarr the reader with an utterly wrong translation of what I might consider the right term in Dutch. I just don't want to spend a full afternoon in looking that up when a story begs to be written, especially when my time is already so limited. So most often: Maglor wears clothes, but don't ask me what exactly. > And that in turn lead me to wonder... are any of these clothing ideas > based on more than just the LotR movie costumes and/or fannon? When I > looked at LotR (the book), I mainly saw either references to jewelry > or ornaments ("circlet of silver" or "girdle of leaves wrought in > silver") or the color of the clothes, but little more description than > that ("he was clad in green and brown" or "her rainment was of white" > and that sort of thing)--the most specific descriptions I remember > were that Glorfindel wore a cloak with a hood, and Legolas wore shoes > (whatever "shoes" are to an Elf)--I don't remember anything about > "robes" or "leggings" (for all I know, Legolas was clad in green and > brown footie pajamas when he attended the Council of Elrond :P). And I > don't recall that much more about the Silmarillion, besides armor and > jewelry and symbols and colors and all that. I think regarding the movie book, don't forget that 3rd ages elves are different than 1st age elves. They are lingering and trying to conserve what once was. When I think of the 1st age or the times of the trees, and combine that with Noldor elves: I don't see them digging for stones in the earth while wearing a flashy robe. Noldor are the most practical ones. Maybe the Vanyar elves would dress themselves to the image of the Vanyar and I think the Teleri would be practical as well, especially with robes because they are impractical around water. When in battle, you will see that the elves of the last alliance are dressed in more practical eum armour. The circlets have a more practical use (for example keeping the hair out of your face). I have some notes somewhere what kinda armour the 1st age elves had, but they cannot be compared to what the Gondorians wear in the movie book. > I could very well be missing missing a huge part where Tolkien himself > described a whole Elven wardrobe, of course, but I can only remember > so many details at once. ;) Well, it is in there. But I think he didn't wanted to spend much time on that. Maybe that is the great thing about reading fantasy: that the writer leaves it up to you what a robe or a tunic or breeches looks like. > So out of curiousity, does anyone else have any more clues about how > the Elves dressed, besides their jewelry and armor and the colors they > wore, or else care to share their ideas? Like, which (if any) of the > Elves could wear "robes" or other fancy clothing and which of even the > wealthy or important Elves found it particularly impractical, how much > did the clothing styles of the Noldor have to change once they went to > Middle-Earth, could any generations of Elves have done the "Kids these > days wear such trashy clothes! In my day, we wore actual PANTS over > our underoos!" head-shakings, or anything anyone else wants to bring > up... (silly or serious) Well once the Noldor set out to ME, there was not much time in packing clothes. You can imagine that they left with with their travel clothes, their armour (forged in secret), but more fancy things would only delay them. Besides that during the journey (whether over seas or the ice) belongings might have get lost too, so what I can imagine is that once on the hither shores, they simply adapted (just as they did with other things like language) to the style and fashion over there. But the focus would be on journeying. > (I'll save my "I don't think Maglor needs to be portrayed as *that* > much more girly than his brothers!" ramblings for another time, I > guess...) LOL I hear you and my Maglor has no hint of any girlyness. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 585 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74970 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2006 16:05:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2006 16:05:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.102) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2006 16:05:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 23212 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2006 16:05:06 -0000 Received: from m190p008.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.191.168]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub71.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 8 Oct 2006 16:05:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <45292247.000007.01692@MARINA> Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 18:07:35 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_NGRTWCW0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <4528DEF0.3010604@gmail.com> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=b_bdC-zHC43bJd2A6gyccHo6b9HHXO1NvUhaO03SL8ftJUQM8lGA X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_NGRTWCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 .=20 >=20 Well. Here is a different view. I have a hard time with narrative and=20 descriptions. I totally agree with you Rhasody, because in German all is lost also. Ther= efore I read it in English, but still sometimes, I simply stunned and think= : huh? . > And that in turn lead me to wonder... are any of these clothing ideas > based on more than just the LotR movie costumes and/or fannon?=20 I did not find many references, but I did a research on ancient clothing i= n Finnland. We know that Tolkien was inspired by the finnish Kalevala and s= o (typical teacher) I sat down and went deep into history...what would some= one in the high North having worn...thousands of years ago? I also started = to compare my results with what we know about Norse and celtic clothing.=20 I came to the result, that elves, even they were not SOOO effected by the = cold of the North as what we would be, they actually would clad themselves = well. I think of those on the ice who died of exposure to the cold.=20 I guess there would be no sweet and fancy robes in Beleriand...not even in= Himring or Nagothrond, because it was no practical. Formal robe stuff, pro= bably yes and there probably more the Noldor then the others. But when goin= g out into the wilderness, the silky "elf nighty" was put into the trunk an= d instead fur stuffed hooded cloak, doubled leather breeches, undertunic an= d jerkin....etc. That is my wild guess. But only my personal opinion! Marina .=20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_NGRTWCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
 
 

.



>
Well. Here is a different view. I have a h= ard time with narrative and
descriptions.

 

I totall= y agree with you Rhasody, because in German all is lost also. Therefore I r= ead it in English, but still sometimes, I simply stunned and think: huh?

.

> And that in turn lead me to wonder... are any of these c= lothing ideas
> based on more than just the LotR movie costumes and/o= r fannon?

I did not find many references, but I did a research on a= ncient clothing in Finnland. We know that Tolkien was inspired by the finni= sh Kalevala and so (typical teacher) I sat down and went deep into history.= ..what would someone in the high North having worn...thousands of years ago= ? I also started to compare my results with what we know about Norse and ce= ltic clothing.

I came to the result, that elves, even they were not= SOOO effected by the cold of the North as what we would be, they actually = would clad themselves well. I think of those on the ice who died of exposur= e to the cold.

I guess there would be no sweet and fancy robes in B= eleriand...not even in Himring or Nagothrond, because it was no practical. = Formal robe stuff, probably yes and there probably more the Noldor then the= others. But when going out into the wilderness, the silky "elf nighty" was= put into the trunk and instead fur stuffed hooded cloak, doubled leather b= reeches, undertunic and jerkin....etc. That is my wild guess. But only my p= ersonal opinion!

Marina

<= /DIV>
.
<= BR>
 
<= /TR>
--------------Boundary-00=_NGRTWCW0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 586 Return-Path: X-Sender: deand12000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1651 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2006 01:23:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2006 01:23:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web56011.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (216.252.110.190) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2006 01:23:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 83028 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Oct 2006 01:23:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20061009012329.83026.qmail@web56011.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.154.118.152] by web56011.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Oct 2006 18:23:29 PDT Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 18:23:29 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Dean Rowley Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=114134930; y=yC37Zip1g88je1HnLHDP0WC1LWlvmVcGeWj0MKko4hu_WUzvnA X-Yahoo-Profile: deand12000 SEE END --- Niki the Wanderer wrote: > I was just looking at a picture with Maedhros and > Maglor in it and > noticed that while Maedhros was dressed in colorful > but practical > clothing it'd be easy to move about in, Maglor > looked rather... well, > like he was wearing a dress it'd be easy to stain. > > Somehow, that lead me to realize that it seems like > every time I read > a Tolkien fanfic, an Elf is either dressed in > "robes" (or a "gown" or > "dress" if it's female), or "a tunic and leggings," > or... well, > whatever creative thing smut writers can put them in > (or not in). I > realize there are exceptions to that, but I don't > encounter them very > often. > > And that in turn lead me to wonder... are any of > these clothing ideas > based on more than just the LotR movie costumes > and/or fannon? MUCH CUT If fannon it is somewhat accurate fannon. Tolkien based LotR on early Middle Age (historical) myths and history. Back then what people actually wore looked like 'Robes', 'Gowns', or 'Tunic and Leggings'. For males, the 'Robes' would be a longer version of 'Tunic and Leggings' and would grace the chief or the elder when he did not have to move around much. Think business suit vs. golf togs. Putting Elves in these is an attempt to be accurate. Dean Maia of Este __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 587 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77061 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2006 21:52:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2006 21:52:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2006 21:52:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Oct 2006 21:52:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Oct 2006 21:52:32 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 21:52:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=p3PItbU7eGKXuteVE5Oo4eta5eMaJCRjURIv17DZx_HreOL5yozZbJli X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses I'm also curious about what picture you're talking about. I was thinking a= bout Jenny Dolfen's portrait of Maglor where the sleeves of his robe? cloa= k? (I have the same 2nd language speaker issue with this vocabulary) woul= d make it hard for him to play the harp. Also trousers and regular boots = would give poor Maedhros with one hand much less trouble to deal with than= leggings and laced-up boots so some practical Noldorin mind should have t= hought them up. Regards From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 588 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6610 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2006 13:32:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2006 13:32:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2006 13:32:43 -0000 Received: from smailcenter74.comcast.net ([204.127.205.174]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20061010133211012002fr88e>; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:32:11 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter74.comcast.net; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:33:23 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:33:23 +0000 Message-Id: <101020061333.15743.452BA1230000B74800003D7F22070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15743_1160487203_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=US1D0nOMlMsCnqCcek9efLABOvakGMP-gjQBq36b9zV0fqUgWXLt X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15743_1160487203_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Niki, I've done some thinking about Elven dress too. Lots of other good points have been made, but you know me...gotta put in my two cents. ;) > Like, which (if any) of the Elves could wear "robes" or other fancy clothing and which of even the wealthy or important Elves found it particularly impractical, how much did the clothing styles of the Noldor have to change once they went to Middle-Earth, could any generations of Elves have done the "Kids these days wear such trashy clothes! In my day, we wore actual PANTS over our underoos!" head-shakings, or anything anyone else wants to bring up... (silly or serious) I've given this some thought too and explored some of these ideas in my stories. (Since most of my stories are pre-Darkening, then most of my ideas apply to life in Valinor.) My own opinion on the issue of robes (not at all based in canon) is that robes were ceremonial or "official business" attire and not likely to be worn every day. In my Felakverse, the lords and official persons of Tirion tend to wear robes in the same way that elected representatives and their assistants wear suits or business dress. I find it hard to believe, though, that these were practical "daily-use" clothes. Especially among the Noldor, who often practice trades where long or voluminous clothing would not only be impractical but dangerous. There is also the issue of weather: Valinor seems to have a year-round pleasant climate that does not seem particularly conducive to heavy or even long-sleeved clothing. Add this to working in an environment like a forge that is hot to begin with, and I'd imagine that unless they had a reason for doing otherwise, the Elves would have dressed according to this sort of climate. As such, when I do have my Elves in robes, they tend to be of a light, cool material rather than the heavy velvets and brocades that often seem popular in stories. I'd imagine, also, that there would be a difference between the different races of Elves. Perhaps it is colder on Taniquetil so this--coupled with the sort of work that the Vanyar do compared to the Noldor--would cause them to dress more in robes or gowns. The Teleri I have trouble imagining in robes at all. Not only would it be impractical for their sort of work but, again, possibly dangerous as well if they needed to swim for whatever reason. The long material would not only be heavy once soaked in water but also hamper free motion necessary to swim and maneuver in the water. Also, my impression of the Teleri is that they care far less for the formalities of Valinor, so I cannot imagine them adopting this style. Nor can I imagine that this was something that was developed in Middle-earth prior to the Elves emigrating to Valinor. Personally, I most often dress my male Feanorians in trousers and tunics. If they are playing outside or riding horses, they wear breeches and tunics. Nerdanel wears either ordinary dresses or trousers and tunics. All of my characters tend to wear robes or gowns for special or official occasions. The families of Fingolfin, Finarfin, and Finwe tend to dress in robes and gowns more often since they are primarily concerned with matters of lore and governance rather than craft (in Felakverse). There actually is a bit of canon support for the idea that Elves had different types of clothing for different occasions in Valinor: When exiled Feanor returned to Tirion at the summons of the Valar: "And Feanor came not in raiment of festival, and he wore no ornament, neither silver not gold nor any gem...." -"Of the Darkening of Valinor" This suggests to me that there is not only a difference in clothing based on use or occasion but that Elves remain aware of the significance of wearing the wrong thing at the wrong time. I've always equated Feanor's actions here with showing up at a black-tie affair in jeans and a T-shirt. (Knowing Feanor, it was probably a dirty T-shirt last worn while mowing the lawn in Formenos!) I'll admit that I've exploited this idea in my stories too, where Fingolfin's people tend to talk about Feanor and his family for their tendency to show up under-dressed for occasions and Feanor tends to look down on his half-brother for his useless frippery. But again, these are only my own ideas and interpretations and nothing in the canon. :) Hope this helps somewhat! Have a nice day, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15743_1160487203_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, Niki,
I've done some thinking about Elven dress too. Lots of other good points have been made, but you know me...gotta put in my two cents. ;)
 
> Like, which (if any) of the Elves could wear "robes" or other fancy clothing and which of even the wealthy or important Elves found it particularly impractical, how much did the clothing styles of the Noldor have to change once they went to Middle-Earth, could any generations of Elves have done the "Kids these days wear such trashy clothes! In my day, we wore actual PANTS over our underoos!" head-shakings, or anything anyone else wants to bring up... (silly or serious)
I've given this some thought too and explored some of these ideas in my stories. (Since most of my stories are pre-Darkening, then most of my ideas apply to life in Valinor.) My own opinion on the issue of robes (not at all based in canon) is that robes were ceremonial or "official business" attire and not likely to be worn every day. In my Felakverse, the lords and official persons of Tirion tend to wear robes in the same way that elected representatives and their assistants wear suits or business dress. I find it hard to believe, though, that these were practical "daily-use" clothes. Especially among the Noldor, who often practice trades where long or voluminous clothing would not only be impractical but dangerous.
 
There is also the issue of weather: Valinor seems to have a year-round pleasant climate that does not seem particularly conducive to heavy or even long-sleeved clothing. Add this to working in an environment like a forge that is hot to begin with, and I'd imagine that unless they had a reason for doing otherwise, the Elves would have dressed according to this sort of climate. As such, when I do have my Elves in robes, they tend to be of a light, cool material rather than the heavy velvets and brocades that often seem popular in stories.
 
I'd imagine, also, that there would be a difference between the different races of Elves. Perhaps it is colder on Taniquetil so this--coupled with the sort of work that the Vanyar do compared to the Noldor--would cause them to dress more in robes or gowns. The Teleri I have trouble imagining in robes at all. Not only would it be impractical for their sort of work but, again, possibly dangerous as well if they needed to swim for whatever reason. The long material would not only be heavy once soaked in water but also hamper free motion necessary to swim and maneuver in the water. Also, my impression of the Teleri is that they care far less for the formalities of Valinor, so I cannot imagine them adopting this style. Nor can I imagine that this was something that was developed in Middle-earth prior to the Elves emigrating to Valinor.
 
Personally, I most often dress my male Feanorians in trousers and tunics. If they are playing outside or riding horses, they wear breeches and tunics. Nerdanel wears either ordinary dresses or trousers and tunics. All of my characters tend to wear robes or gowns for special or official occasions. The families of Fingolfin, Finarfin, and Finwe tend to dress in robes and gowns more often since they are primarily concerned with matters of lore and governance rather than craft (in Felakverse). There actually is a bit of canon support for the idea that Elves had different types of clothing for different occasions in Valinor: When exiled Feanor returned to Tirion at the summons of the Valar:
 
"And Feanor came not in raiment of festival, and he wore no ornament, neither silver not gold nor any gem...."
-"Of the Darkening of Valinor"
 
This suggests to me that there is not only a difference in clothing based on use or occasion but that Elves remain aware of the significance of wearing the wrong thing at the wrong time. I've always equated Feanor's actions here with showing up at a black-tie affair in jeans and a T-shirt. (Knowing Feanor, it was probably a dirty T-shirt last worn while mowing the lawn in Formenos!) I'll admit that I've exploited this idea in my stories too, where Fingolfin's people tend to talk about Feanor and his family for their tendency to show up under-dressed for occasions and Feanor tends to look down on his half-brother for his useless frippery. But again, these are only my own ideas and interpretations and nothing in the canon. :)
 
Hope this helps somewhat! Have a nice day,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15743_1160487203_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 589 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85557 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2006 14:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2006 14:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2006 14:45:48 -0000 Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C4658006 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:44:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:44:42 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <199567212.20061010164442@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <101020061333.15743.452BA1230000B74800003D7F22070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <101020061333.15743.452BA1230000B74800003D7F22070229330B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=9_lcbN00zXTCt85LHX8DMwq6r5PQ6OPZcilonjHSgWGpaAyeOu8 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai DawnFelagund, Dcn> There is also the issue of weather: Valinor seems to have a year-round pleasant climate that Dcn> does not seem particularly conducive to heavy or even long-sleeved clothing. Ha, so it's not only me, that must be something in it XD I agree about robes being suits for them. We know some people who wear suits whenever they can for they like it and those who wear suits when they have to. Dcn> Perhaps it is colder on Taniquetil so this--coupled with the sort of work that the Vanyar do Dcn> compared to the Noldor--would cause them to dress more in robes or gowns. Oops! But are they staying at Taniquetil? I always thought Valimar is located in a valley at feet of Taniquetil. And for unknown reason in my Valimar is much warmer than in Tirion, so Vanyar dress appropriately to the weather and their customs, embarrassing stiff Noldor from time to time ;) Dcn> The Teleri I have trouble imagining in robes at all. All the point you make are good. If I imagine Valimar being warmer than Tirion it should be colder in Alqualond�, but I see Teleri always shirtless, only Olw� wears something more official. The rest is busy with fish nets etc., too occupied to pay attention to styles and trinkets. Dcn> Also, my impression of the Teleri is that they care far less for the formalities of Valinor, so Dcn> I cannot imagine them adopting this style. Nor can I imagine that this was something that was Dcn> developed in Middle-earth prior to the Elves emigrating to Valinor. I don't catch last sentence. You can't imagine they developed such style in ME or that they developed it in Valinor? Dcn> (Knowing Feanor, it was probably a dirty T-shirt last worn while mowing the lawn in Formenos!) Ouch, no, impossible. He had decent but totally plain clothes, I would say a travellers uniform or something else that could be never called official nor decorative. He came because he had to and thus he dressed appropriate. He would never go in dirty t-shirt O_o At least my F�anor ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 590 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90426 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2006 15:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2006 15:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc12.comcast.net) (63.240.77.82) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2006 15:21:39 -0000 Received: from smailcenter49.comcast.net ([204.127.205.149]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20061010152130012002i0r2e>; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:21:30 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by smailcenter49.comcast.net; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:21:28 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:21:28 +0000 Message-Id: <101020061521.22881.452BBA780007774F0000596122007589420B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_22881_1160493688_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=OktIfDbcGi1MSIo01ahPklWwD35Vao5g0TZVfCgRpyAcT5DHx14d X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_22881_1160493688_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Sirielle, > But are they staying at Taniquetil? I always thought Valimar is located in a valley at feet of Taniquetil. You're totally right. I can see that I'm going to have to do more research on the Vanyar before attempting to write them! :^D > If I imagine Valimar being warmer than Tirion it should be colder in Alqualond�, but I see Teleri always shirtless, only Olw� wears something more official. Oh, really? >:^D I like your Teleri.... The coastal towns of my state do tend to have milder weather--cooler summers and warmer winters--than the rest of us, so this makes sense. Though it can still get unbearably hot there in the summer, I would hope that the Valar in their wisdom did not build Valinor in a place with 100F temperatures and 100% humidity that we have in Maryland! > I don't catch last sentence. You can't imagine they developed such style in ME or that they developed it in Valinor? I can't imagine that robes or formal dress would develop in Middle-earth. As a hiker, I can't imagine walking for the whole day, scrambling on rocks, and slogging across streams in long dresses or robes. They would drag in the dirt and water, get snagged on thorns, et cetera. Nor can I imagine a use even around Cuivienen for such formalities. Personally, I think that such styles developed in Valinor, perhaps mimicking the Ainur themselves. This isn't canon but just my own pet theory. :) If the Sindar used such formalities, perhaps it was a mimicry based on what Thingol had seen while briefly visiting Valinor? But most of the Elves I see more concerned with survival than formalities, and hunting or defending a home aren't easily done in long robes, I wouldn't think. > Ouch, no, impossible. He had decent but totally plain clothes, I would say a travellers uniform orsomething else that could be never called official nor decorative. He came because he had to and thus he dressed appropriate. He would never go in dirty t-shirt O_o At least my F�anor ;) Yes, my Feanor tends to get rather disheveled. He can tidy up when it suits him, but he tends to get distracted by his work to care much for tidiness when he's at home. I guess we have very different Feanors then! :^D (I'll admit that my Feanor is a little bit patterned after me when I am in a creative mood and tend to put on whatever clothes are closest to where my feet fall on the floor in the mornings, and I will walk about with paint on my lips or bumping into things until Hubby admonishes me, "Dawn! What are you doing??" If only I knew....;) Best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_22881_1160493688_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, Sirielle,
> But are they staying at Taniquetil? I always thought Valimar is located in a valley at feet of Taniquetil.
 
You're totally right. I can see that I'm going to have to do more research on the Vanyar before attempting to write them! :^D
 
> If I imagine Valimar being warmer than Tirion it should be colder in  Alqualond�, but I see Teleri always shirtless, only Olw� wears something more official.
 
Oh, really? >:^D I like your Teleri....
 
The coastal towns of my state do tend to have milder weather--cooler summers and warmer winters--than the rest of us, so this makes sense. Though it can still get unbearably hot there in the summer, I would hope that the Valar in their wisdom did not build Valinor in a place with 100F temperatures and 100% humidity that we have in Maryland!
 
> I  don't  catch  last  sentence.  You  can't  imagine  they  developed such style in ME or that they developed it in Valinor?
I can't imagine that robes or formal dress would develop in Middle-earth. As a hiker, I can't imagine walking for the whole day, scrambling on rocks, and slogging across streams in long dresses or robes. They would drag in the dirt and water, get snagged on thorns, et cetera. Nor can I imagine a use even around Cuivienen for such formalities.
 
Personally, I think that such styles developed in Valinor, perhaps mimicking the Ainur themselves. This isn't canon but just my own pet theory. :)
 
If the Sindar used such formalities, perhaps it was a mimicry based on what Thingol had seen while briefly visiting Valinor? But most of the Elves I see more concerned with survival than formalities, and hunting or defending a home aren't easily done in long robes, I wouldn't think.
 
> Ouch,  no,  impossible. He had decent but totally plain clothes, I would say a travellers uniform orsomething  else  that  could  be never called official nor decorative. He came because he had to and thus he dressed appropriate. He would never go in dirty t-shirt O_o At least my F�anor ;)
 
Yes, my Feanor tends to get rather disheveled. He can tidy up when it suits him, but he tends to get distracted by his work to care much for tidiness when he's at home. I guess we have very different Feanors then! :^D (I'll admit that my Feanor is a little bit patterned after me when I am in a creative mood and tend to put on whatever clothes are closest to where my feet fall on the floor in the mornings, and I will walk about with paint on my lips or bumping into things until Hubby admonishes me, "Dawn! What are you doing??" If only I knew....;)
Best wishes,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_22881_1160493688_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 591 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21650 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2006 15:32:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2006 15:32:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.120) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2006 15:32:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 11291 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2006 15:32:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) ([172.18.5.238]) (envelope-sender ) by fallback01.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Oct 2006 15:32:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 11426 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2006 15:26:58 -0000 Received: from m158p011.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.187.171]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub74.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Oct 2006 15:26:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <452BBC5B.000039.03844@MARINA> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:29:31 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_71FXY3L3LVC000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <101020061521.22881.452BBA780007774F0000596122007589420B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=wGRrlPiOFHOUcHmcCEz2q-fpDMVFA7SFcQglWzengGQ8muW-D0lT X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_71FXY3L3LVC000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am going to move to Alqualonde! I always imagine this place like the Paci= fic Northwest...kind of like the San Juan de Fucca area....Port Angeles, Vi= ctoria Island...Seattle...or for Europe: Norway, Sweden....on the coast sid= e. MArina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 10/10/06 17:22:18 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves= wear pants :P =20 Hi, Sirielle, > But are they staying at Taniquetil? I always thought Valimar is located = in a valley at feet of Taniquetil. =20 You're totally right. I can see that I'm going to have to do more research= on the Vanyar before attempting to write them! :^D =20 > If I imagine Valimar being warmer than Tirion it should be colder in Al= qualond=EB, but I see Teleri always shirtless, only Olw=EB wears something = more official. =20 Oh, really? >:^D I like your Teleri.... =20 The=20 =20 Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)=20 Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format= to Traditional=20 Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe .=20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_71FXY3L3LVC000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am going to move to Alqualonde! I alwa= ys imagine this place like the Pacific Northwest...kind of like the San Jua= n de Fucca area....Port Angeles, Victoria Island...Seattle...or for Europe:= Norway, Sweden....on the coast side.
 
MArina
 
-------Original = Message-------
 
Date: 10/10/06 17:22:18
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves wear p= ants :P
 

Hi, Sir= ielle,
> But are they staying at Taniquetil? I always thought= Valimar is located in a valley at feet of Taniquetil.
 
You're totally right. I can see that I'm going to have to do more = research on the Vanyar before attempting to write them! :^D
&nbs= p;
> If I imagine Valimar being warmer than Tirion it should = be colder in  Alqualond=EB, but I see Teleri always shirtless, only Ol= w=EB wears something more official.
 
Oh, really= ? >:^D I like your Teleri....
 
The
.

Exactly Dawn!
We should go an= d ship ourselves off to Alqualonde. I am going to open a bed and break= fast right away and I am put signs on teh door:
 =
Instead of the ususal US signs for: no smoking, no dogs, n= o guns..I will get those stickers with No Hobbits, No dwarfs.... :)
<= DIV> 
You can then stay with me until we are able= to find somewhere south a nice place for you to build.....let's keep dream= ing...
 
Marina 
 
-------Original Message------- =
 
= Date: 10/11/06 23:37:07
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Silmarilli= onWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P
=  

Marina wrote:
> I = am going to move to Alqualonde! I always imagine this place like the Pacifi= c Northwest...kind of like the San Juan de Fucca area....Port Angeles,= Victoria Island...Seattle...or for Europe: Norway, Sweden....on the c= oast side.
 
Oh, I'm with you here! I would glad= ly live in Alqualonde, though--to me--any gorgeous seaside Elven settlement= will be more like Guanica, Puerto Rico than anything else. *sigh* And what= am I doing in cold, dreary, rainy Maryland again? :^D
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
D= awn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejour<= WBR>nal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund

Are you a r= elentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http= ://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild. =
~oOo~

 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_THM0O2Q1VA4000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 598 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7112 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2006 13:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Oct 2006 13:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.171) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Oct 2006 13:55:49 -0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id x30so289243ugc for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 06:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.89.5 with SMTP id r5mr2748933ugl; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 06:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.34.250]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id a1sm2123070ugf.2006.10.12.06.52.45; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 06:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <452E48BE.7040508@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 15:53:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <101120062018.4529.452D5180000EBF41000011B122070215730B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <101120062018.4529.452D5180000EBF41000011B122070215730B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Just wondering if any Elves wear pants :P X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=w-Hg76RzP598zWXfum5g849LLq-dPGbwzUc0snBgOCa5SKxmwy3zwuI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: > Sirielle wrote: > >>I'm too lazy now to check what is 100 F in Celsius but I believe you that it's too hot. > > Oh, it's much too hot! It's around 37C. Add 100% humidity to that, and stepping outside here in the summer, it's like being smacked in the face with a wet blanket that's been microwaved. :^P Yeah we had this kinda summer. Actually I think you can compare our climate to that of Alqualonde, depending also on where the wind is coming from (sea or land). This summer we had three heat waves with a continential wind coming from Germany (for us the east), but if it is a sea wind the summers can be so delightful. In general our seasons are very evenly, but the past years we are feeling the effects of global warming and the seasons have changed too, today I heard again that a past month has been exceptional in our country's history. Blizzards in November or March (really weird) or very hot summers with short Autumns and Spring. I prefer Ireland, yes you can have four seasons in one day there, but at least there you have the feeling rain clouds will pass by fast 'cause it is an island. >>I thought Teleri should have colder climate because there is no Tree light in Alqualond�, but I guess trees didn't work the same way as Sun is. > > I've always thought that Laurelin did give off a certain amount of heat. That is one of the reasons why Arien is chosen to guide the Sun, iirc: because she never flinched from Laurelin's heat. Of course, that doesn't mean that it's intense enough to influence the weather..... This makes sense actually. But what about Tillion then? > (Which gets me wondering what *did* control the weather during the many years of darkness. Or maybe I should just stop thinking so hard about it and credit divine intervention?) Depending on where you are wondering what happened... on Middel Earth or Valinor. I think the Valar with their special Ainur never gave thought of that, but both the Edain and Eldar awoke under the stars. >>I think the same! All the royal hierarchy, robes and formal things are a part of fun developed in Valinor. > > Great minds think alike! ;) Yeah. I think you have a great chapter of AMC in that where Nelyo ponders about that. >>In my vision they have no clothes nor formalities at Cuivi�nen. Naive children learning world. Till Morgoth sends the first wave of freezing cold in their direction. They invented clothes after that (and learned what is grief and mourning), but had no kings nor leaders. These came when 3 brave hunters came back from Valinor to talk the rest to go West ;) > > That's pretty much how I see it too, though I'd never figured Morgoth to be responsible for the cold. Interesting idea! So is it safe for me to assume that you don't necessarily agree, then, with Nasmith's painting of the Elves awakening at Cuivienen, wearing their little Elfy togas and sandals? :^D (I've always found that painting beautiful and a little silly at the same time, personally! I think that the Tolkien Estate just wouldn't let him paint them naked. >:^D) LOL But then again, Adam and Eve didn't wear any clothes either (as far as I know that is). Rhapsody (who throws in her 2 eurocents) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 599 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82957 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2006 19:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Oct 2006 19:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Oct 2006 19:58:06 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12.go2.pl [193.17.41.142]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 19FB02319DA for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:21:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35BAF628082 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:11:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:11:09 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <885620186.20061012211109@tlen.pl> To: Rhapsody In-Reply-To: <452E48BE.7040508@gmail.com> References: <101120062018.4529.452D5180000EBF41000011B122070215730B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> <452E48BE.7040508@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Sun and Moon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=LxDZg96yn4XhuEgVJIR3N0zWYdsOTZMubdtO5FCKEdVjsgsuKaM X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, R> Depending on where you are wondering what happened... on Middel Earth or Valinor. I think the R> Valar with their special Ainur never gave thought of that, but both the Edain and Eldar awoke R> under the stars. What do you mean? Men were to wake up with the first sunrise on Arda. If you talking of the second version of legendarium (am I naming it right?) then Sun and Moon graced Arda from the beginning and I have no idea when Elves and Men were born. And why we would need trees in Valinor then ;) Tolkien never finished that (and I never red of it carefully so might be telling now some untruths). Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 600 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 838 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2006 21:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Oct 2006 21:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.170) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Oct 2006 21:18:56 -0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id z35so449480ugc for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.19 with SMTP id w19mr3334308ugg; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.34.250]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id s7sm2541261uge.2006.10.12.14.08.52; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <452EAEF5.1030902@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 23:09:09 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <101120062018.4529.452D5180000EBF41000011B122070215730B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> <452E48BE.7040508@gmail.com> <885620186.20061012211109@tlen.pl> In-Reply-To: <885620186.20061012211109@tlen.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Sun and Moon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=WpEOPAbpvayRvGtOqV2C4MImnT9Kd8qD8Wy0BRlEPJ9tUiUHtVK8MF4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Sirielle wrote: > Ai Rhapsody, > > R> Depending on where you are wondering what happened... on Middel Earth or Valinor. I think the > R> Valar with their special Ainur never gave thought of that, but both the Edain and Eldar awoke > R> under the stars. > > What do you mean? Men were to wake up with the first sunrise on Arda. If you talking of the second > version of legendarium (am I naming it right?) then Sun and Moon graced Arda from the beginning and > I have no idea when Elves and Men were born. And why we would need trees in Valinor then ;) Tolkien > never finished that (and I never red of it carefully so might be telling now some untruths). When I read Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth it becomes clear that the Edain woke up in darkness and shadow too. "'What then was this hope, if you know?' Finrod asked. 'They say,' answered Andreth: 'they say that the One will himself enter into Arda,and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end. This they say also, or they feign, is a rumour that has come down through years uncounted, even from the days of our undoing.'(16) 16. It was of course fundamental to the whole conception of the Elder Days that Men awoke in the East at the first Sunrise, and that they had existed for no more than a few hundred years when Finrod Felagund came upon Beor and his people in the foothills of the Blue Mountains. There have been suggestions earlier in the Athrabeth that Andreth was looking much further back in time to the awakening of Men (thus she speaks of 'legends of days when death came less swiftly and our span was still far longer', p. 313); in her words here, 'a rumour that has come down through years uncounted', a profound alteration in the conception seems plain. The chronology of the Years of the Sun is however maintained in the Athrabeth, with the dating of the meeting of Finrod and Andreth as 'about 409 during the Long Peace (260 - 455)' (see p. 306). See further p. 378. In the Athrabeth Finrod approaches this 'rumour' directly: Therefore I say to you, Andreth, what did ye do, ye Men, long ago in the dark? How did ye anger Eru? ... Will you say what you know or have heard?' He is met by a blank refusal: '"I will not," said Andreth. "We do not speak of this to those of other race"'; but to Finrod's subsequent question 'Are there no tales of your days before death, though ye will not tell them to strangers?' Andreth replies: 'Maybe. If not among my folk, then among the folk of Adanel, perhaps.' The legend of the Fall of Man preserved among certain of the Edain was (as will be seen shortly) about to enter." What happened during the those years in darkness is told in the Tale of Adanel in Morgoth's ring. It's four pages so I hope you don't mind me copying it here. But I read that tale too and boy, bunnies pop up everywhere, but I needed it for my Aegnor/Andreth romance story. Rhapsody (so much to do, so little time) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 601 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46916 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2006 23:20:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Nov 2006 23:20:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc14.comcast.net) (204.127.200.84) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Nov 2006 23:20:26 -0000 Received: from smailcenter43.comcast.net ([204.127.205.143]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2006110122295001400qd8h8e>; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 22:29:50 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by smailcenter43.comcast.net; Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:29:50 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:29:50 +0000 Message-Id: <110120062229.1800.45491FDD000A2B0C0000070822007637040B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: November Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=mTWzUPEKnp_Xc-oGgkUKD4-iLn_1KRR4v9NbgKgFh0_16Dqc-wBP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund A pretty version of our newsletter can be read on our LiveJournal community: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/68379.html ***November's Challenges*** Four Elements The four elements--earth, fire, air, and water--are commonly used in fantasy stories, and Tolkien is no exception. Literally and symbolically, Tolkien's works are filled with mentions of the four elements. Beyond that, fan fiction writers often use this theme to connect ideas in meaningful ways. This month's challenge asks you to write four pieces, each of the four centered around a different one of the four elements. You are welcome to be as ambitious as you'd like with this project, and entries ranging from four hundred-word drabbles to four full-length stories are all welcome. Or four poems, or four nonfiction pieces, each exploring a topic that can be tied back to one of the four elements. The ideas are limitless, but here are some possibilities: * Consider the races of Arda. How does each relate to the elements of Arda compared to the others? Why is this meaningful for that race? Each story could show a young citizen of one of four different races learning his or her relationship with the element most important to his or her people. * Follow a group of people or a character and how each of the elements was important over the course of their history. How did early Men discover fire? What about the role of Water to the Quendi? * Explore the meaning behind the fates of the Silmarils or the three Elven Rings of Power and how they relate to the different elements. The Quote of the Month Challenge The Quote of the Month challenge asks you to write based on the themes and thoughts the quote inspires or about the event in which the quote occurred. You may write in any format--poem, story, essay, or drabble--with any characters, genre, or rating. “And Varda hallowed the Silmarils, so that thereafter no mortal flesh, nor hands unclean, nor anything of evil will might touch them, but it was scorched and withered; and Mandos foretold that the fates of Arda, earth, sea, and air, lay locked within them. The heart of Fëanor was fast bound to these things that he himself had made.” -The Silmarillion, “Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor” Character of the Month: Námo Mandos A few months ago, I wasn't in the mood to work yet found myself curious about how other Tolkienites' interests compared to my own, and so I devised a completely frivolous poll and posted it in my LiveJournal. One of the questions asked people to choose their favorite Vala. Mine has always been Námo, but since my tastes in fiction are sometimes rather dark, I thought myself alone in this. Apparently not. Námo won that day, and since then, I have read some stories involving him that are intriguing, complex, and thought-provoking. This month, I wanted to deviate the character of the month from the Children of Eru and consider some of the world's makers--the Ainur--and Námo seemed an intriguing choice. Pronouncing dooms, making judgments, and guarding the spirits of the dead...Námo is indeed a fascinating character whose purpose and personality often seem shrouded in mystique. Tolkien himself said that little is known about what went on in the Halls of Mandos, and as a result, this has become a fun playground for many fanfic writers. This month, we honor the character of Námo and all fiction that dares to explore the character of the mysterious Vala a little deeper. As usual, please feel free to share your stories and thoughts on this character (and any others that catch your fancy!) or toss a few story recommendations out for those eager to learn more about Námo Mandos. Other Ongoing Challenges At SWG, challenges never die. You are welcome to write for a challenge at any time. All of our past challenges have been tagged and may be found here or on our website. A Call for New Challenges! At SWG, the challenges are for members to create! If you have an idea for a challenge, would like to suggest a quote for the monthly quote challenge, or would like to see your favorite character honored as our character of the month, please do not hesitate to suggest it on-list or email Jenni (Digdigil), our challenge coordinator, at elennf569@rogers.com. As always, all Silmarillion writing, including challenge responses, is welcome in our LJ community. ***Welcomes and Birthdays*** Welcome to Ilmarienastiniel, Anuhealani, Nerdanel Istarnie, and Kirsty1775 our newest members to join our Yahoo! group in October! Welcome also to all who have joined or are watching our LiveJournal community. No members with November birthdays have signed up in our database. Do you want to get stories for your birthday and other special occasions? Sign up on our "Give Someone a Silmaril" database, located on our Yahoo! Groups homepage or post your request to the list or the LiveJournal. ***News and Announcements*** Volunteers Needed As I announced last month, I have purchased for our group the domain silmarillionwritersguild.org. This will become the online home for our group (though the LiveJournal and Yahoo! groups will remain in existence and hopefully as active as they are now!) and, eventually, a fiction archive where we can share our Silmarillion writing. I have a basic website designed already, but there is some old material in the Yahoo! archives and LiveJournal that I would like to put up on the website. Several members have expressed their interest and willingness in helping to work in HTML, so if anyone is available and wants to help out, I would be very grateful! At the moment, I would first like to get all of our old newsletters ready to put up on the webpage. This is a simple matter of copying, pasting, and inserting the necessary HTML tags; unfortunately, it's not something that I have room to fit on my own agenda for this month. Even if you have time to only convert a few old newsletters, that would put me that much closer to getting them all finished and publicly available. I ask only that volunteers for this task have some basic understanding of HTML. By "basic," I mean very basic--enough to insert paragraph and heading tags and do minimal work with changing the style of text. The layout of the webpage is entirely based in CSS, so no knowledge of layout or tables is necessary. I will send anyone interested a newsletter shell into which to copy and paste the material. Additionally, I have been trying for some time now to get our LiveJournal community properly tagged to make finding stories by a particular author or on a particular character a single click away. However, it has become fairly clear to me also that this is something that I would love to do but will never get to in time to tag all of our old entries. Anyone who would be willing to help me with tagging old LJ entries would be much appreciated by me and by readers on our LJ who, at the moment, are left navigating more than a year's worth of archive material. All that you need for this task is an understanding of how the LiveJournal tagging system works. If you aren't entirely clear on this, I'd be happy to help you out. Again, even if you can only tag a month or two, that would be a tremendous help! If you are interested in either or both of these jobs, please email me at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or leave a comment in this entry with a way that I can contact you. Again, all help is appreciated! My Website Goals My goal this month is to get all of our files updated and transferred to the new host. I am in the process of writing an email that doesn't want to end to our other moderators so that we can get an idea of where we will be focusing our energy in the coming months. As usual, member ideas and input is highly appreciated, so feel free to email me at any time if you have any ideas, suggestions, or want to help out. National Novel Writing Month This month is National Novel Writing Month (popularly known as NaNoWriMo), and I know that many of our members will be particpating! Best of luck to everyone writing novels this year and may the muses smile upon you! -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 602 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94077 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2006 23:23:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2006 23:23:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.214) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2006 23:23:34 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2006 23:20:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2006 23:20:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2006 23:20:47 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 23:20:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "alassante7" Subject: Drabble Madness X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=30xkJKrse6ZTfEJNxvJZXe0oxjx9nS1J7EHrZzQvh_vmxNU99w X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 I don't know if its okay to advertise another LJ community on here so if n= ot, I apologize. But I have a multi-fandom Drabble community that I am try= ing to revitalize. I know alot of you love to drabble so if you're interes= ted please join in. :) http://community.livejournal.com/drabble_madness/pr= ofile From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 603 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6855 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2006 03:52:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2006 03:52:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.200.81) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2006 03:52:54 -0000 Received: from smailcenter76.comcast.net ([204.127.205.176]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006112203295801100rj9fme>; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 03:29:58 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by smailcenter76.comcast.net; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 03:29:57 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 03:29:57 +0000 Message-Id: <112220060329.26774.4563C43500031D4B0000689622070245530B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26774_1164166197_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Drabble Madness X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=utVpItfKFX8GGz80xh5_aldsaS1HdWLmy_c21HSdOK2v8bOYl6d5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26774_1164166197_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No need to apologize! Other groups that our members might be interested in are always welcome to give everyone a heads up. :) Best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "alassante7" > I don't know if its okay to advertise another LJ community on here so > if not, I apologize. But I have a multi-fandom Drabble community that I > am trying to revitalize. I know alot of you love to drabble so if > you're interested please join in. :) > > http://community.livejournal.com/drabble_madness/profile > > > --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26774_1164166197_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: "alassante7" To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Drabble Madness Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 23:31:43 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26774_1164166197_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26774_1164166197_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I don't know if its okay to advertise another LJ community on here so
if not, I apologize. But I have a multi-fandom Drabble community that I
am trying to revitalize. I know alot of you love to drabble so if
you're interested please join in. :)

http://community.livejournal.com/drabble_madness/profile

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26774_1164166197_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26774_1164166197_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 604 Return-Path: X-Sender: Juno@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59040 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 15:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 15:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.183) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 15:52:52 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 15:50:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 15:50:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 15:50:17 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:50:16 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: The 'There and Back Again' Fan Fiction Advent Calendar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=199036170; y=quEaRlMJLFl7QVj0gI8DaLjXZmt0MYTZ2TfNPe-z6bNAsKGfXw X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic The "There and Back Again" - fan fiction advent calendar is back! Last yea= r we had a lot of fun with our fan fiction advent calendar. We would like t= o revive that fun. And here are the rules for this year: http://community= .livejournal.com/there_n_back/89473.html Have FUN! Yours JunoMagic and Ar= anel Took *** "There and Back Again (and how to get there in the first pl= ace)" - a writers' workshop for Tolkien fan fiction in LJ style: http://www= .livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dthere_n_back From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 605 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42003 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 15:54:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 15:54:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 15:54:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 15:50:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 15:50:06 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:50:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: MEFA Banner voting X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=o7IEWCLwSAp7RvU4q2DCwac08H35j6q3esfU6cRNBJ4RH4Qt7E4A9FQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all! Voting for stories and authors are over. We had an amazing turn-ou= t, and a group of volunteers including myself are busy getting the results = ready to post. We hope to do that in a few days. In the meantime, there's o= ne more thing you can vote on: award banners. Over the past months we have= received eighty-four banners created by Nienor Niniel, Rhapsody, and Thevi= na Finduilas. This is enough to give us a banner in every category. For eig= hteen of those awards more than one banner was submitted, so we have polls = decide which one will be used. The one that gets the most votes will be mad= e available to be used for the final banners. The polls will run through t= he end of December 4. As always we use the official timestamp of our websit= e. To see this, go to http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2006/ and look in the bo= ttom-left corner. This year the polls to decide this are hosted at our web= site instead of at our Yahoo group. This is a big change from last year, bu= t we hope it will be much more convenient. You do not need a log-in to our = website to vote on this. The polls record your IP address so that the same = computer can only vote once. To vote, please go here: http://www.mefawards= .net/poll/polls2006/index.htm If you are curious which banners will be giv= en to the winners where only one was submitted, feel free to visit http://= www.mefawards.net/fanart/categories.php?cat_id=3D2 to see which banners ha= ve been created. If you run into any problems, please contact the fanart a= dmin at: banners (at) mefawards.net Happy voting! Marta (MEFA Admin) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 606 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61158 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2006 10:25:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2006 10:25:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.184) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2006 10:24:58 -0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id p77so555064nfc for ; Wed, 06 Dec 2006 02:23:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.254.1 with SMTP id b1mr1971196nfi.1165400026059; Wed, 06 Dec 2006 02:13:46 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.34.250]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id q27sm1135616nfc.2006.12.06.02.13.45; Wed, 06 Dec 2006 02:13:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <457697E4.6010807@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 11:13:56 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sweetdreamsanc@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: and the winners are... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=u11t3npICDtSYN7UBfKd73ckb0YhtILv2lO9K8py_yrSWA8z4dcLHkY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard On behalf of Marta I am passing on this great news: The 2006 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards are concluded. Many, many thanks to everyone who participated, including authors and volunteers as well as volunteers who worked so hard to make this year's awards happen. You can see a full list of this year's winners at our LJ, http://community.livejournal.com/mefas/16108.html#cutid1 You can also read the reviews left for these stories and access the rest of our site's features at http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2006/. If you do not have an account you can access many of the features by clicking the "login as guest" link. In the next few weeks we will begin our annual post-mortem. Was a certain aspect of the awards confusing? Is there a policy you would like for us to consider changing? If so, please email mefasupport (at) gmail.com. You can also join the Yahoo group mefa-discussion to participate in these discussions. Thanks again for all of your support of these awards, and I look forward to 2007. :-) Marta (MEFA Coordinator) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 607 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79479 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2006 20:48:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2006 20:48:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.119) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2006 20:48:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 4976 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2006 20:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) ([172.18.5.228]) (envelope-sender ) by fallback01.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Dec 2006 20:41:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 23475 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2006 20:36:50 -0000 Received: from m084p009.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.178.105]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub75.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Dec 2006 20:36:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <45772A98.00000C.03840@MARINA> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 21:39:52 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_GEDV7TH0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) To: , "Lynn" , , , , , X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Thank you for all your support X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=SPZDJrSOIE6Dd8tF7clK_yPo4MU4drtCL9BzrdrxFy9cGHMHK4Hm X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_GEDV7TH0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My dear friends! I am back at home now. I try to do all step by step. I thank you for the h= undreds of messages, for the uncountable prayers during the darkest days of= my life, where I thought sun will never shine.=20 On Monday a 7.25 am 64 hours after my waters broke it took my 15 hours to = deliver my dying child. I christianized him in my arms. I must say that the hospital staff cared for me day and night and they wan= ted me to feel no pain but neither an epidural nor even opiats and morphin= e worked at all and I suffered extreme. I thank you all very much for your prayers, for you thoughts and for your = support. I do have a little memorial letter that I will send out via email. For tho= se that would like it, please send me a short off list note. Thank you once again. Love Marina --------------Boundary-00=_GEDV7TH0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My dear friends!
 
I am ba= ck at home now. I try to do all step by step. I thank you for the hundreds = of messages, for the uncountable prayers during the darkest days of my life= , where I thought sun will never shine.
 
On Mo= nday a 7.25 am 64 hours after my waters broke it took my 15 hours to delive= r my dying child. I christianized him in my arms.
 
<= DIV>I must say that the hospital staff cared for me day and night and they = wanted me to feel no pain but neither an epidural  nor even opiats and= morphine worked at all and I suffered extreme.
 
I thank you all very much for your prayers, for you thoughts and for your= support.
 
I do have a little memorial letter t= hat I will send out via email. For those that would like it, please send me= a short off list note.
 
Thank you once again.<= /DIV>
 
Love
 
Marina
=
=
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_GEDV7TH0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 608 Return-Path: X-Sender: Fingolfin65@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37662 invoked from network); 29 Dec 2006 16:17:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Dec 2006 16:17:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.215) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Dec 2006 16:17:57 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2006 16:17:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2006 16:17:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2006 16:17:09 -0000 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:17:08 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Fingolfin" Subject: And We Danced * Fingon/Aegnor *(PG) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180869218; y=VT0-f4Eqg0VObWdS1ClNi36cyVcHRsky6ifVSSHgiSIY X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 I had a lot of fun writing for Slashy Santa. This was my first time. A big= thank you to keiliss for her wondrous beta of this work. Title: And We D= anced Author: phyncke Beta: Keiliss Email: jhfink@sbcglobal.net Rating: PG = Pairing: Fingon/Aegnor Warnings: Character death implied. Written for: Clau= dielf Summary: Fingon is sent to Dorthinion for the Yule season. He falls = prey to the unexpected charms of his cousin. And We Danced=85 One day we= 'll dance on their graves One day we'll sing our freedom One day we'll laug= h in our joy And we'll dance Sting They Dance Alone 1987 The Flow of Yea= rs If people wondered why I went so often to Dorthinion, it was not broug= ht up to me. I managed my duties very responsibly, assisting my father whe= n I could, maintaining my defense of Dor-l=F3min as best I could. Those we= re dark years, indeed. We laid siege to the enemy and held him, with much = loss, sorrow and pain. My time in the highlands was precious to me. I went= back each Yule and stayed as long as I could, some months if I could mana= ge it. The time always seemed so short but we loved each other enough to l= ast for an eternity. Light in his gaze, a face haloed by golden hair, tha= t is what I see when I think of him, my lover. He was my opposite in so ma= ny ways. He was intense, brooding,, but possessed of a quick wit and a sen= se of humour that could put me into stitches, a buffoon really. He would d= o anything to make me laugh; such antics=85 cartwheels, funny faces, what= ever it took. He died in flames, the fire for which he was named. Now, I = fight as though I want to die myself. My father would not like it but he i= s gone, too, so what does it matter? So many gone, so many dead. ---Perso= nal journal of King Findek=E1no, in year 457 of the First Age 1. Well = met! The arrow grazed my hair, hitting a nearby tree with a dull thud, and= I could not see where it had come from. If they had wanted to hit me, th= ey would have. I was not wearing armour, as I was on a fact finding missio= n, not to engage the enemy. Stealth was the key to my success. Yes, I carr= ied weapons, but those were a last resort. "Hold your fire, imbecile! That= is an elf out there! Are you blind as well as stupid?" Then came the sou= nd of muffled curses and scuffling. I could not help but smile as I drew u= p my horse, the snow crunching under her hooves. She snorted derisively as= if in response to the noise beyond the clearing. I waited calmly for some= one to show themselves. Soon enough they did. "My most humble apologies f= or the manner of your greeting..." Charming. The leader leapt down from th= e trees and shook the snow out of his wavy, blonde locks. He walked with a= swaggering arrogance and spoke with a rich, deep voice. I knew he could s= ing as I had heard his voice raised in song many a time. He could carry a = tune quite well. It had been a comfort on the long crossing of the ice thr= ough the cold, star filled nights. "Cousin?" He stopped and I enjoyed hi= s surprise. "I am sent to see you, upon the order of the King." "Why, wha= t have I done?" Aikan=E1ro looked petulant and I could tell he did not lik= e the idea he was being checked on. "There is nothing wrong, cousin. It i= s to see how you fare and if you need anything from Hithlum," I assured hi= m as I dismounted, boots landing on the snow covered ground. "We have all= we need, " he muttered, and whistled to his company to be underway. "Come= , it is dark and the sun will fade soon. You are staying, I assume?" "I w= ill be staying." I grabbed the reins and followed him through the trees. = 2. Yule is upon us In my haste to leave Hithlum, I had forgotten the s= eason, Yule. In Dorthonion they celebrated simply, a meal, music, the danc= e and mead. Ahh, the mead. Angar=E1to , brute that he was, held sway in t= he corner, challenging warrior after warrior to drinking bouts. I watched = him from across the room and sipped my goblet by the fire, keeping warm. I= t was colder here in the mountains. The mead was a nice way to heat the b= ody and the spirit. "He is an uncouth barbarian, is he not? I cannot belie= ve we are related. He must seem doubly so to one like you, Fin." Shouts b= roke out as his brother won yet again. The elf in question swayed but did = not topple, ready to go another round. There was more laughter at this. "= He will pass out ere long, just you watch. There is only so much one can d= rink." Aikan=E1ro held his first glass of the evening, seemingly a moderat= e elf. I found this surprising given his nature. His eyes held mine and I= raised an eyebrow. "You will join in the dance later? I insist on it." "= I think not. I do not know how." His expression softened at my sullen relu= ctance. "I will show you. Do not worry in that regard." There was an elem= ent in his voice I could not define, but I remember thinking just then wha= t a startling blue his eyes were, as alive and open, as a cloudless sky. = "Dancing is not my strong suit." "I am a very good teacher." His voice wa= s warm and wrapped around me like a soft fur. I could not help it, I nodde= d in agreement, letting him lead me to the other room where the revels wer= e to take place. First there was the feast, and then on to the dance. = 3. The feasting As we entered the celebration room, I watched the lantern= light play in his golden hair. Our entrance was marked, which made me ner= vous. I dropped his hand. It was not seemly to be seen thus. This resulted= in a frown leveled my way over a broad shoulder. I almost laughed but ga= ve him a frown right back, to keep him in his place. My cousin was trouble= , I had no doubt about that. "My lord, will you sit?" We were met by a yo= ung elleth or perhaps she was mortal. The races mingled freely in these te= rritories, so the rumour went. Her gaze lingered a bit too long, trying to= figure out something or so it seemed. "Yes, we will. Tell them to start = serving - and get Angar=E1to in here no matter what his condition. Come, F= indek=E1no ." Half of the great room was taken up by a very large, low tab= le which was set with rustic, country-style place settings in colors of th= e season; rich gold and red and green. Much care had been taken to make i= t festive even in these dark times. The lanterns were set low and their fl= ames flickered, casting an inconstant light in the room. No music yet, now= was the time for eating and conversation. "You will sit with me, cousin."= I sat dutifully down on the plush pillows as he did the same. The food w= as served, venison and other fare, a worthy feast for the night's festivit= ies. Soon I had to lie back, having had my fill. "Oh...I could not dance n= ow to save my life..." I groaned. "It will be the elleths and women folk f= irst, so you have some time to recover." Angar=E1to sat at the far end of= the table, being tended to by a kind- looking elleth who seemed far too go= od for him. She got him water and made him comfortable as he settled back = after the meal, face obscured by his dark blonde hair. The youngest son o= f Arafinw=EB leaned over the table with his legs crossed, nibbling on frui= ts and nuts to finish off his meal. The building we were in had the appear= ance of an oversized hunting lodge, wood beamed and rough hewn, but the ro= oms were large for gatherings of all the local folk. Yule was the favorit= e time of year in these parts, and Aikan=E1ro clapped his hands for the mu= sic to begin. The elleths took their places in the center of the room. Aft= er much scurrying and giggling, faces flushed, eyes shining, they formed a= circle. Finally with a quick bow, they were set to begin. I watched from = where I sat with keen interest, keeping one eye on my cousin. He intereste= d me as well, though I was loathe to admit it even to myself. 4. The = dance begins " You may begin=85" It surprised me the authority he held, s= o quietly taken, so completely followed. His brother was the elder but it = was the Fell Fire they followed. I wondered at this. Why would that be? T= he maids twirled in time to the drum and lute, skirts billowing behind in = their wake. They were dressed in bright colors so it was a spectacle to se= e, a feast for the eyes. Most of the males wore forest green to match the = season but the females wore any color imaginable to cheer up the gathering= , with ribbons in their hair that trailed through the air as they turned a= nd swayed. I felt a touch to my palm and looked up. "Beautiful, no?" I s= miled and nodded as the first dance ended and the elleths bowed, laughing = breathlessly as they returned to the first circle position. Applause erupt= ed and there were shouts throughout the room. They prepared for the second= dance, which would be more energetic than the first. "The males dance as= though on the hunt=85" he remarked, eyeing me carefully to judge my react= ion. "And what do you hunt?" "Ohh=85that remains to be seen." And then h= e winked at me. I did not know what to make of that but it stirred somethi= ng in me. I cannot deny now that I found him exciting. There was a wildnes= s to him that drew me like a moth to that sharp flame. The next dance had= a lot of clapping and whooping, jumping and swooping, swinging from arm t= o arm around and around the room. It was good fun. The rest of us tapped o= ur feet in time to it and the noise peaked as the music got faster and fas= ter. It ended with a flourish and a stomp. The roar shook the rafters. . = "Now I will show you. There is one more dance for them and I will instruct= you while it is performed." "Oh cousin, I don't know=85" I pulled back f= rom the breath on my skin. He was far too close and I was not drunk enough= yet. My refusal was not to be accepted apparently, as I was pulled to my = feet. We left the room. Again my hand was taken, but this time I did not p= ull away. 5. Hunter or hunted? I took my place in the middle of a dim= ly-lit room, listening to the muted sound of the music from the hall. I co= uld hear laughter as well. It was a jovial gathering. My cousin looked at= me intently. "So I am the hunter and you are the prey=85" "Why don't I h= unt you?" I folded my arms and he threw his head back to laugh. "That par= t is much harder. I cannot teach it in one night, but you may hunt me next= year." He seemed so sure I would be there that I smiled. I am not lackin= g in coordination, so I learned what was expected of me. He was exactly my= height, and I could look him in the eye. He stalked me well, a prelude to= what was to come. 6. And we danced It went on forever. This chase. T= he music thrummed, egging us on, and we would feint and dip, towards then = away from each other, skin glistening in the golden light of the lanterns.= It was both primal and natural, a tribute to the woodland realm which gav= e us so much. I did feel hunted. I played my part to the very end, fallin= g into my pursuer's arms as though dead, killed by my hunter's arrow. Ther= e was an exultant response from the crowd and I looked up into his face, s= trong, honest, and handsome. "I have you=85" "Hmm..." "Shall I take you= to rest now?" "We are done?" Aikan=E1ro nodded, his shoulder length hair= falling in his eyes. Not thinking, I brushed it aside. We moved out of th= e room. The hour was late, though the festivities still went on. Our part = was over. "I can walk, cousin." "I like carrying you. You are far from he= lpless but I enjoy this." I snorted as we went upstairs. 7. I fall pr= ey We passed my room and I had to wonder at that. "Where are we going?" = I looked back to see my door recede into the distance. Over the weeks I ha= d grown comfortable in my room, the bed, the furniture. It was small and I= liked it. "You are coming with me tonight. I hunted you, remember?" "Tha= t does not mean..." "It means what I say it means." There it was again, t= hat quiet authority that I would not argue with. We had both been there at= the dance. Had I known, would I have stopped it? Nay. A boot kick to the= door as we entered sealed us off from the rest of the gathering. For one = who had shown such grace in movement, Aikan=E1ro certainly could be loud. = He brought me into the center of the room. This was my first time within h= is private chambers so I looked around curiously. The fire was lit in the = hearth. Furs covered the large, welcoming bed which lay opposite. He live= d in uncluttered, masculine surroundings, which bespoke the personality of= their occupant. He put me down, giving my hand a comforting squeeze. "Sh= all I order a bath drawn? Might be nice, hmm?" "Nice?" I echoed. I was fa= lling prey again, this time to the soothing sound of his voice. I wondered= what he had in mind now. I paced to the window and looked out at the nigh= t. A storm had come in and the ground was covered in fresh snow; it was st= ill falling very heavily. I could see myself in the glass of the window. I= looked into my own eyes trying to figure out what I wanted. "You are goi= ng to join me, is that it?" "Don't think about it too much, Findek=E1no . = Let your feelings be your guide. How did you feel during the dance?" "I w= as dead at the end=85so I did not feel anything." I was being deliberately= difficult because I was nervous now. I had felt the sensual pull of the d= ance. How could I not? And now he stood close behind me, letting me feel h= ow much he desired me. I should refuse him and go to my room but I felt th= at pull again, and an answering fire inside of me. "You danced beautifull= y for your first time..." He brushed my plait aside and let his lips graze= the skin at the top of my shoulder. We both heard the door open and he pa= used a moment, though not moving away from me. "We need a bath drawn and = I would like some wine brought to us as well." "Yes, my lord." The door = closed with a click as the latch caught. I felt him link our fingers, graz= ing his thumbs over the soft skin of my palms. "You will stay until Spring= ." "I=85I=85" "I need this time with you. Things will keep until then." = My heart opened at his statement. He was not one for flowery pleas and lof= ty language. This was all I was going to get. I leaned back against his ch= est, letting my head fall back on his shoulder, a silent acquiescence. I w= ould agree. How could I not? My father would just have to=85well, that wou= ld be settled in some manner. 8. Together The bath water arrived in b= ig, steaming tubs, carried over the threshold to the interior chamber. It = was done quickly. The wine was delivered shortly after, the jug set on the= table by the bed. The servants retreated silently, leaving us to our priv= acy. I sank down into the hot water, letting my body relax. It was a large= tub, thus I could sit upright and be completely submerged. Oh gods. It w= as delicious. I wondered what my cousin was doing out there, but soon was = just resting back against the stone side with my eyes closed. "Good? You m= ust be sore, Fin. Let me wash you. I will even do your hair." The surface= of the water splashed as my cousin got in, and he sighed as he sat down o= pposite me. His hair clung to his face from the moisture in the air. I mo= ved towards him, shaking my long, black hair out of its plait. The ends go= t wet in the water so I just submerged completely, coming up with a gasp. = We both laughed. I sat close by him, letting him run his hands over my sor= e, aching muscles. He poured the soap and worked it into my scalp, using h= is strength to good effect. "Eru, that feels good, cousin." "Relax, then.= Let me take care of you=85" "Mmm=85" I swayed as he worked and soon my m= ind was occupied by nothing else but him, his hands and his touch to my bo= dy and soul. Too soon he whispered softly by my ear, "Time to rinse your h= air." "Finished?" I could not help the disappointment in my voice. "For = now, cousin. Dunk." I turned and lay back, submerging my hair in the water= to rinse it of the soap. He held a palm to my spine, supporting me, and I= looked up into his clear, blue eyes. When my cousin smiled at me I could = feel it in my soul, and it graced his rough face with a gentleness that o= pposed his temperament. "Go dry off and I will come join you shortly. You = do not have to wait for me here." I rose from the bath and climbed out to= the woven rug. The towels were within easy reach there, so I dried off qu= ickly. I could feel the blush rise to my face, turned away from him as I w= as. I took the comb, lounging pants and another towel and left the room to= go by the fire. The heat was making me sleepy but I stayed awake as best= I could, pulling the comb through my hair and letting it dry by the warmt= h of the fire. There were rugs and pillows by the hearth for comfort. It = was much bigger than the fireplace in my room. I braided my damp hair neat= ly and lay back to wait, eyelids drooping halfway closed. The loose pants = I wore were a finely woven material and very comfortable. The flames dance= d, putting me into a bit of a trancelike state. I was more tired than I th= ought as I rested draped over the large, hand-crafted pillows. I heard hi= s deep voice sing to me, very close by, yet very softly. "No sleep, we can= not sleep the night is not our friend. No sleep, we cannot sleep, we march = until the end..." "I remember that song. You sang that with the elflings o= n the march..." I opened my eyes, rolling to my back so I could look up a= t him as he rested on his side. "The little ones were so brave, little so= ldiers every one of them." "Cousin, it was your spirit that got them throu= gh. I remember that very clearly.* He blushed slightly in embarrassment. = "Well anyone would have done that=85" His blonde hair was tousled and dam= p, falling to his shoulders, his skin scrubbed clean from the bath. He had= put on loose fitting sleeping pants as well, and I tried not to touch his= bare, well muscled torso. "Not anyone, Aikan=E1ro =85you. You kept them = alive." "It was necessary," he muttered. "Come here." I pulled him down = to me, a hand at the back of his neck for encouragement. . It was for me t= o bring our lips together in a soft kiss, to show him I needed his touches= . I could feel the smile form on his mouth and I kissed it away, tasting h= is mead-tinged flavor. Our caress deepened and I could feel his smooth ski= n against my own. Sinking my hands into his hair, I opened to him, letting= him drink from me. For one so hard at times, he was deceptively soft in l= ove; he had lips like the petal of a flower. We breathed for a moment. "= Come to bed, Fin. I want to hold you this long night, safe in my arms." H= e sprang away and up from me, reaching down to help me up. I looked at him= in a disgruntled manner but held out my hand. He pulled. "Come to bed." = It was a command now. He was the lord of this realm and would have his way= . "You always get what you want?" He gave me a brooding look over his sho= ulder as he led me to the bed. "In most things, yes. You would do well to = remember that." "I suppose I better." I laughed at that as he turned down= the feather coverlet, getting all ready for our slumber. He left me to go= douse the lanterns that stood at different locations in the room, bidding= me lay down. Soon the light of the fire was all that illuminated the room= . I watched the shadows flicker on the walls, and my eyes followed him as = he made his rounds. "You do not want to=85?" "Oh, it is not a question o= f that, my love." I felt the bed dip as he sat down, and slipped under the= covers towards me. I should not have asked but I wanted to know. "Well t= hen, what=85" "I want us to be sure how we feel when we do." He settled o= n his pillow and watched for a response in my face. I knew then what would= happen and that he would be my love, despite those downstairs, despite th= e judgment of others, despite these impossible times. I wondered if he saw= it in my eyes. I could surely see it in his. I turned over, away from hi= m, and curved my back into his body. "Let's go riding in the new snow tomo= rrow, hmm? My mare needs a good run." "Right after we break fast=85" I a= lways slept so well with him, protected and warm. The hunt is over He= is so beautiful. Pale skin, limitless grey eyes and hair so dark it absor= bs the light. He is sleeping now, so peacefully, and I had to record this = moment for myself so I know that I am not dreaming. It will not be easy to= love him, for he has as unruly a nature as I do, but that will make it al= l the more satisfying to have him with me. I could not leave his side toni= ght. I choose Findek=E1no and I know he does me. I know his father did not= intend for this to happen between us when he sent him here. I will not l= et him go, not even when I die. ---Personal journal of Lord Aikan=E1ro, in= the year 110 of the First Age * * * the end * * * To read more of these = wonderful stories go here: http://geocities.com/slashysanta/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 609 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15238 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2007 21:48:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2007 21:48:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc11.comcast.net) (206.18.177.51) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2007 21:48:17 -0000 Received: from amailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.225.101]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070107205135b1100k0n3me>; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 20:51:35 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter01.comcast.net; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 20:51:34 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 20:51:34 +0000 Message-Id: <010720072051.1348.45A15D560008BEF80000054422120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Help Finding a First Age Story X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=HPq3I490tSL8jP9U0BkcK-tKgjTz3DBaAHwBQJf8f7uA8uy0rNkQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, I was contacted by someone who really wants to find a First Age story that she read and enjoyed, but unfortunately, she cannot remember the title or author and did not bookmark it. I've never read it, but I was hoping that one of you might be able to help...might have written it, even? Here's the description that she sent me: > I read, quite some time ago, just a chapter about something in the First Age > in Valinor or Tol Eressea - the West... > > It was about two brothers - one was in a prison of some kind - while there, > his brother (or twin) was thrown in with him - the brother had been beaten > mercilessly - I lost the story and have wanted to find it. Might you be able > to help? I'm sorry - I have no names because the author used the Quenya > names which I always get mixed up with. Any ideas? Thanks! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 610 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35562 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2007 22:40:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2007 22:40:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.120) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2007 22:40:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 24924 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2007 22:33:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) ([172.18.5.238]) (envelope-sender ) by fallback01.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Jan 2007 22:33:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 24745 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2007 22:30:33 -0000 Received: from m1622p008.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([80.121.74.168]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub74.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Jan 2007 22:30:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <45A1754D.00001D.01080@MARINA> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 23:33:49 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_D0SIUUF1VA4000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <010720072051.1348.45A15D560008BEF80000054422120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Finding a First Age Story X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=CUKPrW_Fn9EkMJgKUBzkpbuo7KviFLQ5asqoxhkHGV1rIJapzTo0 X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_D0SIUUF1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable boah! that gave me a plot bunny...awesome!=20 Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 01/07/07 23:19:11 To: SWG Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Finding a First Age Story =20 Hi, all, I was contacted by someone who really wants to find a First Age story that= she read and enjoyed, but unfortunately, she cannot remember the title or = author and did not bookmark it. I've never read it, but I was hoping that o= ne of you might be able to help...might have written it, even? Here's the description that she sent me: > I read, quite some time ago, just a chapter about something in the First= Age > in Valinor or Tol Eressea - the West... >=20 > It was about two brothers - one was in a prison of some kind - while the= re > his brother (or twin) was thrown in with him - the brother had been beat= en > mercilessly - I lost the story and have wanted to find it. Might you be = able > to help? I'm sorry - I have no names because the author used the Quenya > names which I always get mixed up with. Any ideas? Thanks! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager?=20 Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild. ~oOo~ =20 --------------Boundary-00=_D0SIUUF1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
boah!
 that gave m= e a plot bunny...awesome!
Marina 
 
=
-------Original Message-------
 
To: SWG
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Finding a First Age Story=
 

Hi, all,
I was co= ntacted by someone who really wants to find a First Age story that she read= and enjoyed, but unfortunately, she cannot remember the title or author an= d did not bookmark it. I've never read it, but I was hoping that one of you= might be able to help...might have written it, even?

Here's the des= cription that she sent me:

> I read, quite some time ago, just a = chapter about something in the First Age
> in Valinor or Tol Eressea = - the West...
>
> It was about two brothers - one was in a pri= son of some kind - while there,
> his brother (or twin) was thrown in= with him - the brother had been beaten
> mercilessly - I lost the st= ory and have wanted to find it. Might you be able
> to help? I'm sorr= y - I have no names because the author used the Quenya
> names which = I always get mixed up with.

Any ideas? Thanks!
Dawn

--
= ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.li= vejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund

A= re you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Gui= ld at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwri= tersguild.
~oOo~

 
=
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_D0SIUUF1VA4000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 611 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77044 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2007 01:13:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2007 01:13:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc13.comcast.net) (206.18.177.53) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2007 01:13:28 -0000 Received: from amailcenter04.comcast.net ([204.127.225.104]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070108004905b1300q6q8ge>; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 00:49:05 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter04.comcast.net; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 00:49:05 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 00:49:05 +0000 Message-Id: <010820070049.28177.45A19501000620B600006E1122165499760B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Finding a First Age Story X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=A9TG_AiEGbtIljlhlT_WRknYS7HAamyHHKtXV7D4-x_45_suEp9V X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Marina wrote: > boah! > > that gave me a plot bunny...awesome! Well even if we don't figure out the name of the story, at least one has gotten inspiration from the mere summary of it! So some good comes of it. ;) Best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 612 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52320 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2007 07:25:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2007 07:25:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.112) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2007 07:25:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 15634 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2007 07:24:45 -0000 Received: from m139p027.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.185.91]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub72.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 8 Jan 2007 07:24:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <45A1F283.000003.01024@MARINA> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 08:28:03 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_RQGJG6G0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <010820070049.28177.45A19501000620B600006E1122165499760B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Finding a First Age Story X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=WdGg-Eq9E-1Jq-KjGCudTAQssTjPmz8L8HX4_v1eaknGl4iqApun X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_RQGJG6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable YES!!! That launched something in my head :) I really had to write that bun= ny down.. Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 01/08/07 02:23:05 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Finding a First Age Story =20 Marina wrote: > boah! >=20 > that gave me a plot bunny...awesome!=20 Well even if we don't figure out the name of the story, at least one has g= otten inspiration from the mere summary of it! So some good comes of it. ;) Best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager?=20 Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild. ~oOo~ =20 --------------Boundary-00=_RQGJG6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
YES!!! That launched something in my he= ad :) I really had to write that bunny down..
Marina <= /DIV>
 
-------Original= Message-------
 
Date: 01/08/07 02:23:05
Subject:<= /I> Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Finding a First Age Story
 

Marina wrote:
> boah!>
> that gave me a plot bunny...awesome!

Well even if we= don't figure out the name of the story, at least one has gotten inspiratio= n from the mere summary of it! So some good comes of it. ;)
Best,
Daw= n

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online= at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ddawn_felagu= nd

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarilli= on Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?use= r=3Dsilwritersguild.
~oOo~

 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_RQGJG6G0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 613 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27394 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2007 01:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2007 01:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2007 01:51:27 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2007 01:50:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2007 01:50:32 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 01:50:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Looking for Stories X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=SIRkvWae_W4CH6nUKszXhuluqBYqkYwJ4ocSa2BoiI5ssBUcCw8 X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I've been suffering from a lot of nights where I wake up between 2 and 4AM = and lie awake until 6 or 7AM unable to go back to sleep. I'm desperate for = something to read. I'm looking for good First Age stories or even just good= LOTR stories involving Finwe, Fingolfin or his decendants (down through El= rond and the twins), Finarfin or his decendants, Glorfindel, or Haldir. I g= enerally keep up to date with stories at Stories of Arda, Open Scrolls, and= FF.Net. I don't want heavy sex stories and I don't like slash. Anyone hav= e any suggestions? Desperately bleary, Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 614 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37960 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 16:50:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2007 16:50:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc13.comcast.net) (204.127.225.93) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2007 16:50:18 -0000 Received: from amailcenter03.comcast.net ([204.127.225.103]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070111164619b130032gb8e>; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:46:19 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter03.comcast.net; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:46:19 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:46:19 +0000 Message-Id: <011120071646.27766.45A669DA000E0CCE00006C7622165279660B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27766_1168533979_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for Stories X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=3VbA9fe907mckF3gpK-pcIC4XoH0Vigq75pstXb9_TkFYIaStnFU X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27766_1168533979_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, Ellie, I've been wracking my brain to think of stories for you. Unfortunately, the stories/authors whom I usually rec post on one of those sites you've named, so I suspect that you've probably seen most of them before. Most of the authors who *don't* post on those sites are slash authors, which doesn't do you much good either. However, I have a few ideas! For one, HASA changed their policy at the beginning of the year so that all stories listed as "general" status are now available to the public. As most are probably aware, it used to be that unless a reader had an account with them, only stories that had passed review were viewable. Now, however, reviewed *and* general stories are available, making many hundreds of stories that were previously behind lock and key available to a larger audience. So I'm hoping that there might be stories there that you have not read. :) Secondly, I will recommend the work of JunoMagic, knowing that you like stories about Elrond's descendants. Not only is Juno a fantastic writer (and Elrond's number one fangirl) but she has written several fanfic novels, which should be enough to keep you company across many sleepless nights. :) I've only ever read her shorter work since most fanfic sites are blocked at my workplace (i.e., where I do most of my reading *evil grin*), but I know many who have read her novels and find them utterly addictive. You can find her stories on ff.net, HASA, and Tolkien Fan Fiction. (I would give you links, but I'm at work and.... *see earlier comment about blocked sites* :) ) And lastly, what about the smaller archives? Sweet Dream Sanctuary and Quills and Ink spring first to mind, but I know that there are many more. (Anyone have additional suggestions?) Also FicWad...I've never even visited this site but know that many authors have used it in the past or continue to use it now. Sorry I can't be more help than this! (Though this post really reminds me that I need to finish my Earwen novella....) But I hope that your insomnia comes to an end soon and that you find some good stories in the meanwhile. :) Best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27766_1168533979_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi, Ellie,
I've been wracking my brain to think of stories for you. Unfortunately, the stories/authors whom I usually rec post on one of those sites you've named, so I suspect that you've probably seen most of them before. Most of the authors who *don't* post on those sites are slash authors, which doesn't do you much good either.
 
However, I have a few ideas! For one, HASA changed their policy at the beginning of the year so that all stories listed as "general" status are now available to the public. As most are probably aware, it used to be that unless a reader had an account with them, only stories that had passed review were viewable. Now, however, reviewed *and* general stories are available, making many hundreds of stories that were previously behind lock and key available to a larger audience. So I'm hoping that there might be stories there that you have not read. :)
 
Secondly, I will recommend the work of JunoMagic, knowing that you like stories about Elrond's descendants. Not only is Juno a fantastic writer (and Elrond's number one fangirl) but she has written several fanfic novels, which should be enough to keep you company across many sleepless nights. :) I've only ever read her shorter work since most fanfic sites are blocked at my workplace (i.e., where I do most of my reading *evil grin*), but I know many who have read her novels and find them utterly addictive. You can find her stories on ff.net, HASA, and Tolkien Fan Fiction. (I would give you links, but I'm at work and.... *see earlier comment about blocked sites* :) )
 
And lastly, what about the smaller archives? Sweet Dream Sanctuary and Quills and Ink spring first to mind, but I know that there are many more. (Anyone have additional suggestions?) Also FicWad...I've never even visited this site but know that many authors have used it in the past or continue to use it now.
 
Sorry I can't be more help than this! (Though this post really reminds me that I need to finish my Earwen novella....) But I hope that your insomnia comes to an end soon and that you find some good stories in the meanwhile. :)
Best wishes,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_27766_1168533979_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 615 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20069 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 17:01:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2007 17:01:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.89) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2007 17:01:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 2736 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2007 17:00:24 -0000 Received: from m1666p028.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([80.121.80.60]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub74.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 11 Jan 2007 17:00:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <45A66DEC.00000B.00564@MARINA> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:03:40 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_4ERPCJD0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <011120071646.27766.45A669DA000E0CCE00006C7622165279660B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for Stories X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=SQjQlDOR4hVuhNV9Jx7l7pnVXcKH0feHl7FijfIyeAOWx-_7gLNN X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_4ERPCJD0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ellie,..I do not have much Fingolfin fic on my site..but I do have lots of = Gondolin and Nan Elmoth stories of all kinds on my site. If you really want= something extraordinaire..there is LOCHTAER on my site..(Gondolindrim)... =20 =20 http://www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin/index.html Marina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Date: 01/11/07 17:51:08 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for Stories =20 Hi, Ellie, I've been wracking my brain to think of stories for you. Unfortunately, th= e stories/authors whom I usually rec post on one of those sites you've name= d, so I suspect that you've probably seen most of them before. Most of the = authors who *don't* post on those sites are slash authors, which doesn't do= you much good either. =20 However, I have a few ideas! For one, HASA changed their policy at the beg= inning of the year so that all stories listed as "general" status are now a= vailable to the public. As most are probably aware, it used to be that unle= ss a reader had an account with them, only stories that had passed review w= ere viewable. Now, however, reviewed *and* general stories are available, m= aking many hundreds of stories that were previously behind lock and key ava= ilable to a larger audience. So I'm hoping that there might be stories ther= e that you have not read. :) =20 Secondly, I will recommend the work of JunoMagic, knowing that you like st= ories about Elrond's descendants. Not only is Juno a fantastic writer (and = Elrond's number one fangirl) but she has written several fanfic novels, whi= ch should be enough to keep you company across many sleepless nights. :) I'= ve only ever read her shorter work since most fanfic sites are blocked at m= y workplace (i.e., where I do most of my reading *evil grin*), but I know m= any who have read her novels and find them utterly addictive. You can find = her stories on ff.net, HASA, and Tolkien Fan Fiction. (I would give you lin= ks, but I'm at work and.... *see earlier comment about blocked sites* :) ) =20 And lastly, what about the smaller archives? Sweet Dream Sanctuary and Qui= lls and Ink spring first to mind, but I know that there are many more. (Any= one have additional suggestions?) Also FicWad...I've never even visited thi= s site but know that many authors have used it in the past or continue to u= se it now. =20 Sorry I can't be more help than this! (Though this post really reminds me = that I need to finish my Earwen novella....) But I hope that your insomnia = comes to an end soon and that you find some good stories in the meanwhile. = :) Best wishes, Dawn =20 -- ~oOo~=20 Dawn Felagund=20 Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo = bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund=20 Are you a relentless First-Ager?=20 Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal com/us= erinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.=20 ~oOo~ =20 --------------Boundary-00=_4ERPCJD0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Ellie,..I do not have much Fingolfin fi= c on my site..but I do have lots of Gondolin and Nan Elmoth stories of= all kinds on my site. If you really want something extraordinaire..there i= s LOCHTAER on my site..(Gondolindrim)...
 
 = ;
 
Marina<= /U>

 

-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 01/11/07 17:51:08
Subject: Re: [Silmarill= ionWritersGuild] Looking for Stories
 

Hi, Ellie,
I've been wracking my brain to= think of stories for you. Unfortunately, the stories/authors whom I usuall= y rec post on one of those sites you've named, so I suspect that you've pro= bably seen most of them before. Most of the authors who *don't* post on tho= se sites are slash authors, which doesn't do you much good either.
 
However, I have a few ideas! For one, HASA changed the= ir policy at the beginning of the year so that all stories listed as "gener= al" status are now available to the public. As most are probably aware, it = used to be that unless a reader had an account with them, only stories that= had passed review were viewable. Now, however, reviewed *and* general stor= ies are available, making many hundreds of stories that were previously beh= ind lock and key available to a larger audience. So I'm hoping that there m= ight be stories there that you have not read. :)
 
Secondly, I will recommend the work of JunoMagic, knowing that you like = stories about Elrond's descendants. Not only is Juno a fantastic writer (an= d Elrond's number one fangirl) but she has written several fanfic novels, w= hich should be enough to keep you company across many sleepless nights. :) = I've only ever read her shorter work since most fanfic sites are blocked at= my workplace (i.e., where I do most of my reading *evil grin*), but I know= many who have read her novels and find them utterly addictive. You can fin= d her stories on ff.net, HASA, and Tolkien Fan Fiction. (I would give you l= inks, but I'm at work and.... *see earlier comment about blocked sites* :) = )
 
And lastly, what about the smaller archives?= Sweet Dream Sanctuary and Quills and Ink spring first to mind, but I know = that there are many more. (Anyone have additional suggestions?) Also F= icWad...I've never even visited this site but know that many authors have u= sed it in the past or continue to use it now.
 
= Sorry I can't be more help than this! (Though this post really reminds me t= hat I need to finish my Earwen novella....) But I hope that your insomnia c= omes to an end soon and that you find some good stories in the meanwhile. := )
Best wishes,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stor= ies or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml= ?user=3Ddawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Che= ck out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/u= serinfo.bml?user=3Dsilwritersguild.
~oOo~

=
 
<= TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100%">
3D"Add= --------------Boundary-00=_4ERPCJD0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 616 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70150 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2007 15:08:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m38a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2007 15:08:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.206) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2007 15:08:49 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2007 15:08:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2007 15:08:38 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:08:37 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Fingolfin" Subject: **Dreaming Spires RPG Looking for Players** X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=zNVB-hQXEecEnGHiZ8IwIJyt4e2NCx5Y1Lu1amst8tVp X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 Calling all RP-ers Tolkien characters from any age or persuasion wanted to= play in Modern Era Game!!! Dreaming Spires is looking for players=85. AB= OUT THE GAME Dreaming Spires is a LOTR/Silmarillion AU (Alternate Universe)= RPG set in modern Arda. Specifically, today, in Oxford, England, the bir= thplace of JRR Tolkien himself. The premise of the game is that Valinor, t= he Undying Lands of the West, have been destroyed; like Beleriand before i= t, the earth simply sank into the sea and is no more. You, as a character = in the game, do not understand what happened or why; all you know is that = you were caught up in the cataclysm, and when it was finally over, you wer= e here, in modern Arda, in the 21st century, finding yourself drawn to th= e birthplace of Tolkien himself, in Oxford. The game is played in a journa= l format on Greatest Journal at the community: http://dreamingspires.grea= testjournal.com/ There is also an OOC community for the game at: http://d= reamspires-ooc.greatestjournal.com/ CHARACTER OPTIONS There are four opti= ons for player characters in this game---Elf, mortal (Human, Hobbit, Dwarf= ), Supernatural being (Valar, Maiar, Istari), and Actors/Celebs. Evil cha= racters may also be played with permission from the moderator. All must ha= ve a plausible reason for their appearance in Oxford and a bio. *More info= rmation available on request.* RULES -This is a slash and het friendly ga= me. All players must be 18 or older. -All game play will be on the game j= ournal (on Greatest Journal, see above). NC-17 material should be marked a= s such and posted behind a cut. -All players should have an active AIM ID= and be accessible online and have a valid email account listed on their g= ame journal. -Any IC or OOC disputes should be brought to the attention of= the moderator immediately. HOW TO APPLY: Characters currently in play a= re: Celebrian, Maeglin, Peregrin Took, Fingolfin, Aragorn/Viggo Mortensen,= The Ents, Galadriel, Mahtan and Alasse, Yavanna and Varda, Ecthelion of G= ondolin, Maglor, Faramir, Ecthelion of Gondor, Denethor and Orodreth. Char= acters on hold are: Aredhel, Elrond, Marton Csokas, Glorfindel, Idril, Tuo= r, Maedhros, Karl Urban. Any other LOTR or Silmarillion characters are fai= r game and can be requested for play. You should send an email to Jane a= t jhfink@sbcglobal.net with an idea for the character you would like to pl= ay. Send in a brief description of how you will situate the character in t= he Oxford setting and a short sample of your RP writing, no more than one = paragraph. You will be notified immediately of your acceptance into the ga= me and how to get started. Note that you can play more than one character= and can develop secondary (OC) characters as are necessary for the action= . I look forward to hearing from you and feel free to contact me with q= uestions about the game. There are many characters available and it is ope= n to players of all levels. This game was originally started by arhuaine b= ut is now under my management. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 617 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3581 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2007 02:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2007 02:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc14.comcast.net) (204.127.225.94) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2007 02:38:14 -0000 Received: from amailcenter04.comcast.net ([204.127.225.104]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070118023312b1400s1qq6e>; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:33:12 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter04.comcast.net; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:33:11 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:33:11 +0000 Message-Id: <011820070233.28972.45AEDC66000B33690000712C22165499760B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: The Book of Lost Tales I X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=m01q32ngCXAGVO9UM2IjRYFpudzgxhpkSCOtjEQI03HOYGtWKcGf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, A while back, we discussed doing a reading/discussion of the History of Middle-earth series. I have begun compiling my summaries of the Silm-related content. I will be working on this project as I have time to do so, so there is no set schedule. However, I have started on the Foreword to the first HoMe book, The Book of Lost Tales I. This document contains insights on how Christopher Tolkien reworked his father's notes and manuscripts into the published Silmarillion and has several intriguing bits on how it relates to The Lord of the Rings in terms of content and style. Because I know that many of you don't have all of the HoMe books, I have uploaded the foreword to the Files on our Yahoo group. In order to access the foreword, you will need to do the following: 1) Log into Yahoo! and visit our group site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/ 2) If you are logged in, you will see a menu on the left side of the screen. Choose the third option, FILES. 3) Open the second folder called "The History of Middle-earth." The Foreword can be downloaded as a PDF there. Because I am working with scanned text files, I had to do all of the formating on this document myself and there is also the usual array of typos that come with scanned documents. For this reason, please don't use this as a source for quotes or research. Please use the original, in the book. I did my best to remove any inconsistencies between the book and the file, but short of spending a week on this, there is no way for me to get it perfect. I'll be making notes and compiling a summary in the days to come. Please feel free to contribute your own thoughts and ideas at any time! Best wishes, Dawn Felagund ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 618 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50798 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2007 22:16:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2007 22:16:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.225.91) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2007 22:16:51 -0000 Received: from amailcenter05.comcast.net ([204.127.225.105]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070120215625b11000svtve>; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:56:25 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter05.comcast.net; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:56:24 +0000 To: henneth_annun@yahoogroups.com (Henneth Annun), SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:56:24 +0000 Message-Id: <012020072156.7531.45B29008000056AC00001D6B22155670740B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: HoMe1--Foreword--Summary X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=0IQg5IN-_n5aYhMxXk3oCl1zW_q4STYyVbjCJ8XmBoX4k8g3jQ2C X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Well, here is our first of the HoMe summaries! I skipped doing a summary of the Foreword for the Silm reading, which I now regret. The Foreword to BoLT1 had lots of insights to make a little geek like me very happy indeed. :) Just a reminder that if you need the Foreword, it can be found on the group's Yahoo page. Simply log in, select FILES from the left sidebar, and find the folder named "The History of Middle-earth." I will be putting all of the essays and chapters that I summarize in there as PDF files a few days before posting the summary so that everyone has a chance to read them. Please don't hesitate to email me if you have trouble getting the essays; I'm happy to help. Next up for summary will be "The Cottage of Lost Play." I will be making a PDF of it in the days to follow and will let everyone know when it is available. (I'm hoping to get on some sort of schedule where, as the summary is ready, the next PDF file is also ready, but knowing the chaos of my life, this might be wishful thinking!) Enjoy and please share your thoughts! :) Dawn --- The Book of Lost Tales 1 Foreword Summary The Book of Lost Tales was J.R.R. Tolkien's earliest work. Many of the ideas in the Tales were later rejected or the stories abandoned entirely, but in the Tales, we can see some of the roots for the stories and legends that later made up Middle-earth. The Book of Lost Tales I as we have it was published six years after The Silmarillion was published posthumously. The Foreword addresses many of the issues that arose in the wake of The Silmarillion's publication and also explains the purpose of the History of Middle-earth project. The History of Middle-earth series seeks to show the evolution of the published stories as we know them and to do so with minimal complication for readers. The series includes complete or mostly-complete works of J.R.R. Tolkien interspersed with commentary from his son Christopher Tolkien, the author of the Foreword. Perhaps most interesting about the Foreword, however, is its discussion of some of the issues and complications associated with The Silmarillion's publication after J.R.R.T.'s death, particularly as it relates to The Lord of the Rings. Anyone who has ever struggled with understanding--or liking--The Silmarillion should be heartened by this Foreword: Here, the "experts" themselves admit that it is a challenging book and that its publication after LotR is particularly problematic. C.T. describes a sense of outrage in many readers who, expecting another LotR, found themselves with a book of cursory myths written in a "Biblical," archaic style. What is it that makes The Silmarillion such a challenge? J.R.R.T. himself admitted that the lack of Hobbits would be perceived by many as a loss, even by those without a particular liking for them. The Silmarillion lacks the "mediating" characters of LotR, those who take the strange world of Middle-earth and interpret it in a way that we residents of Modern-earth can easily understand. The Silmarillion, on the contrary, is said to "move the heart and the imagination, directly," without the intervention of a narrator(s). Some critics have also speculated that The Silmarillion destroys some of the depth of LotR. The songs and stories barely alluded to in LotR create a sense of depth, of a very distant past that is barely glimpsed and so stirs the imagination. Some have wondered if expanding upon these stories was a wise course of action; if this might have destroyed some of the magic of those stories as they appear, briefly, in LotR. C.T. replies to this concern by acknowledging that many readers of LotR will have no need to delve further into the history of Middle-earth, but that it would be a mistake to deny those whose curiosity was awakened by LotR by claiming that the history his father had created was but an illusion rather than detailed stories in their own right. He further adds that there is depth in The Silmarillion as much of the history, songs, and lore is only barely alluded to and lends to a sense of times and places outside of The Silmarillion proper. There is also discussion as to who is the true "narrator" of The Silmarillion and of the stories contained within The Book of Lost Tales. J.R.R.T.'s original idea had an explorer from England called "Eriol" (or "�lfwine") journey to Tol Eress�a and hear the tales from the Elves themselves. As his work progressed, however, J.R.R.T. seems to have lost sight of this idea. There is allusion made that suggests that his later thinking may have placed The Silmarillion as part of the Red Book of Westmarch that Bilbo compiled and wrote and later gave to Frodo. At the time of publishing The Silmarillion, this was C.T.'s private belief, but he avoided putting The Silmarillion into this context for its readers, a decision that he later came to regret. The conclusion of C.T. and other scholars of Tolkien's work and world is that The Silmarillion was part of the Red Book of Westmarch, written by Bilbo using the written and living sources available to him in Rivendell. Finally, C.T. sheds some light on the evolution of J.R.R.T.'s mythology that would become fixed in The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, and later, The Silmarillion. Middle-earth and its mythology was something evolving over the course of its author's lifetime, and in commiting The Silmarillion to print, perhaps lends a mistaken impression of finality. Some of the ideas in the HoMe books were not rejected, even if they didn't make it into the published version as C.T. saw it. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 619 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12833 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2007 22:55:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m40a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2007 22:55:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.217) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2007 22:55:37 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2007 22:54:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2007 22:54:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2007 22:54:19 -0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 22:54:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <012020072156.7531.45B29008000056AC00001D6B22155670740B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: HoMe1--Foreword--Summary X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=nA2DP-DAwukqCyFIzs-zmgmSBpJatf_voDF8jVpAsSZTQ-saig3h7KM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: H= i > Next up for summary will be "The Cottage of Lost Play." I will be > = making a PDF of it in the days to follow and will let everyone know > when= it is available. (I'm hoping to get on some sort of schedule > where, as = the summary is ready, the next PDF file is also ready, but > knowing the ch= aos of my life, this might be wishful thinking!) I hope you have more luck= this time. I am a bit torn between commenting on LJ or here, I know I don'= t have the energy right now to discuss it in both places... should I post i= t in both places? > Perhaps most interesting about the Foreword, however,= is its > discussion of some of the issues and complications associated wi= th > The Silmarillion's publication after J.R.R.T.'s death, particularly = > as it relates to The Lord of the Rings. Anyone who has ever > struggled = with understanding--or liking--The Silmarillion should be > heartened by t= his Foreword: Here, the "experts" themselves admit > that it is a challeng= ing book and that its publication after LotR is > particularly problematic.= C.T. describes a sense of outrage in many > readers who, expecting anothe= r LotR, found themselves with a book of > cursory myths written in a "Bibli= cal," archaic style. What I hear often is that it has so many names. I fou= nd the pacing quite different, where in LOTR I read page after another, her= e after reading 4 pages, an hour passed by and I put it down. But I now wis= h there was so much more in the Silmarillion, I really wanted to read so mu= ch more when I finished it. > What is it that makes The Silmarillion such= a challenge? J.R.R.T. > himself admitted that the lack of Hobbits would b= e perceived by many > as a loss, even by those without a particular liking = for them. Well yes, another thing is that there is no record of where the= hobbits came from, how they suddenly popped up East of Mirkwood ect. This = left many hobbity writers in confusion and I know of two author's who wrote= a great explanation of it. I think the Silm could have been enriched with = the creation and origin of the hobbits. Imho of course. > The Silmarillion= lacks the "mediating" characters of LotR, those who > take the strange wor= ld of Middle-earth and interpret it in a way > that we residents of Modern= -earth can easily understand. The > Silmarillion, on the contrary, is said= to "move the heart and the > imagination, directly," without the interven= tion of a narrator(s). I don't know what you mean here with mediating. >= There is also discussion as to who is the true "narrator" of The > Silmar= illion and of the stories contained within The Book of Lost > Tales. J.R.R= .T.'s original idea had an explorer from England called > "Eriol" (or "=C6= lfwine") journey to Tol Eress=EBa and hear the tales > from the Elves them= selves. As his work progressed, however, J.R.R.T. > seems to have lost sigh= t of this idea. Oh the famous =C6lfwine of LACE. ;c) I still believe he s= imply misunderstood the elves ;) > There is allusion made that suggests th= at his later thinking may > have placed The Silmarillion as part of the Re= d Book of Westmarch > that Bilbo compiled and wrote and later gave to Frod= o. At the time > of publishing The Silmarillion, this was C.T.'s private b= elief, but > he avoided putting The Silmarillion into this context for its= > readers, a decision that he later came to regret. The conclusion of > = C.T. and other scholars of Tolkien's work and world is that The > Silmaril= lion was part of the Red Book of Westmarch, written by Bilbo > using the wr= itten and living sources available to him in Rivendell. I really really li= ke this idea, to see the Silmarillion through Bilbo's eyes, well I admit I = really like Bilbo, but it creates such a different dimension if the Silmari= llion we came to read, is told through a hobbit's perspective. Knowing thei= r nature and that he based his stories on his sources who might hold grudge= s to, for example the Feanorians and might not have told the full truth...= *ignores the bunnies popping up* > Finally, C.T. sheds some light on the= evolution of J.R.R.T.'s > mythology that would become fixed in The Lord o= f the Rings and The > Hobbit, and later, The Silmarillion. Middle-earth an= d its mythology > was something evolving over the course of its author's l= ifetime, and > in commiting The Silmarillion to print, perhaps lends a mist= aken > impression of finality. Some of the ideas in the HoMe books were no= t > rejected, even if they didn't make it into the published version as > = C.T. saw it. Interesting, makes you wonder about the canonity of Home and = if we shouldn't pass it of as semi-canon so easily. Thanks Dawn for the su= mmary, Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 620 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51991 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2007 16:29:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2007 16:29:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.225.91) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 16:29:19 -0000 Received: from amailcenter03.comcast.net ([204.127.225.103]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070122152742b110012a71e>; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:27:42 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter03.comcast.net; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:27:41 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:27:41 +0000 Message-Id: <012220071527.20028.45B4D7ED00008A3C00004E3C22165279660B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20028_1169479661_0" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: HoMe1--Foreword--Summary X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=qpnfI2x6NpO10bhBVt90HKkIKghEd-aPpHEWZO028lHKf9_liTpP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20028_1169479661_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rhapsody wrote: > I am a bit torn between commenting on LJ or here, I know I don't have the energy right now to discuss it in both places... should I post it in both places? It's certainly welcome in either place, though I think it's easier to discuss things here than on LJ since only I get notifications of new comments posted to the summaries on LJ. (Unless people use that tracking feature for each entry...but does anyone actually use that? :^D) I see LJ as being a more accessible archive, with tagging and all, so if you'd like to have your thoughts archived there, that would certainly be a good reason to double-post! :) > I don't know what you mean here with mediating. I think that what C.T. meant when he made mention of the lack of Hobbits as "mediating" character in The Silm was this: The Elves and other races of Arda (Ents, for example, or even noble Men) are societies very different from our modern human society. It is hard for us to comprehend them. The Hobbits, however, are much more like us, having similar values, culture, and worldview. By having LotR from the PoV of the Hobbits, this provides a way for a strange world to be interpreted in a way that makes sense to us, as modern-day humans. So the Hobbits serve as a link between the strange world of Middle-earth and our more familiar "Modern-earth." Perhaps better than "mediators" is "interpreters," to describe one of their roles in the story. Does that make better sense? The Silm, of course, is raw. It is not interpreted through a friendly, familiar character; we are given the characters and deeds and expected to make sense of them more or less ourselves. It occurred to me while compiling my notes for the Foreword that I really began to appreciate The Silm once I started reading it as historical documents. Suddenly, I had a "narrator," in a way, through which to make sense of things. > Oh the famous �lfwine of LACE. ;c) I still believe he simply misunderstood the elves ;) Lol, I can't wait to get to LaCE! I'm kind of chomping at the bit, actually...I might move it ahead, since it is of interest to so many people. I have issues with �lfwine too, but I can rant and ramble for hours on this, so I'll save this for when we actually get to LaCE.... > I really really like this idea, to see the Silmarillion through Bilbo's eyes, well I admit I really like Bilbo, but it creates such a different dimension if the Silmarillion we came to read, is told through a hobbit's perspective. Knowing their nature and that he based his stories on his sources who might hold grudges to, for example the Feanorians and might not have told the full truth... *ignores the bunnies popping up* Exactly! This is always one of my points when I'm forced to engage in...erm, discussions (to be nice about it) with canatics. (And I should say that I have nothing against canatics; I am myself a canatic in many ways. I should say vicious, proselytizing, single-minded canatics.) While J.R.R.T. may have waffled a bit about who "wrote" the various parts of The Silm, it seems fairly certain that he always envisioned an author other than himself. And once we give The Silm an "author" who was a part of Arda, then we remove omniscience, for one. If Pengolodh, for example, wrote the bits of the Quenta that take place in Beleriand, then how did he know what went on among the Feanorians before Fingolfin's people arrived many years later? (And actually, I'm pretty sure that Pengolodh was born in Nevrast, so he wasn't even alive for the events of the early First Age.) How did he later know what happened outside of Gondolin, once his people were sequestered from the rest of Beleriand? He had t o get his information from others, others who may have lied or skewed the truth for various reasons that aren't too hard to imagine. Also, the narrator himself possesses a bias and motives for presenting history in a certain way. To use Pengolodh again, as a subject of Turgon, there were some things that he simply couldn't say unless he really wanted to stir things up. And perhaps, even then, his words were under the control of his King? To give a real-life scenario, Person A and Person B have a terrible argument in sight and earshot of a dozen friends and coworkers. If you, as the historian, are trying to get an accurate account of this fight, then you go and interview each of the dozen witnesses. Now depending on each person's allegiance (to Person A? or to Person B?) and ulterior motives (perhaps Person B is a person of power worth appeasing?), each will present the scenario differently. So who do you trust? Well, you have your own allegiances and motives that effect how you weigh and interpret information. Suppose that Person A embodies an ethic that you favor; it is to your advantage to cast her favorably. Or perhaps Person B is *your* boss; now you are casting *her* favorably out of fear of retribution. Even if without doing so consciously, bias is a part of all of us that exists outside of our conscious control. My point is that I think it's silly to assume that the narrators of The Silm were likewise withou t bias and personal motives when they presented the history. Bilbo as a narrator, actually, might be one that I trust the most. I can't think of any reason that he would have to skew things in a particular way, since the history is so long past and does not involve him--or even Hobbits at all--in any way. But it says in the Foreword that he wrote the Red Book of Westmarch using sources "written and living" in Rivendell. *These* sources certainly cast things a certain way. Surely, he spoke at length with Elrond; as the son of Earendil and Elwing, having been fostered by Maedhros and Maglor, surely he has his own private allegiances that prevent him from ever being entirely neutral. Perhaps this is why Maedhros and Maglor are treated more gently in The Silm while Celegorm and Curufin are vilified, for example? I try to remember that each character had to sleep at night. Each character had to justify his actions to *himself* (or herself) above all others. And so there is a second side--or many sides, even--to every story that bears consideration. But then, I like untangling complex canon, so this is fun for me. :) And I really did *not* intend to ramble about canon first thing Monday morning. Alas, I could be up to worse things! ;) Take care, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20028_1169479661_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Rhapsody wrote:
> I am a bit torn between commenting on LJ or here, I know I don't have the energy right now to discuss it in both places... should I post it in both places?
It's certainly welcome in either place, though I think it's easier to discuss things here than on LJ since only I get notifications of new comments posted to the summaries on LJ. (Unless people use that tracking feature for each entry...but does anyone actually use that? :^D) I see LJ as being a more accessible archive, with tagging and all, so if you'd like to have your thoughts archived there, that would certainly be a good reason to double-post! :)
 
> I don't know what you mean here with mediating.
I think that what C.T. meant when he made mention of the lack of Hobbits as "mediating" character in The Silm was this: The Elves and other races of Arda (Ents, for example, or even noble Men) are societies very different from our modern human society. It is hard for us to comprehend them. The Hobbits, however, are much more like us, having similar values, culture, and worldview. By having LotR from the PoV of the Hobbits, this provides a way for a strange world to be interpreted in a way that makes sense to us, as modern-day humans. So the Hobbits serve as a link between the strange world of Middle-earth and our more familiar "Modern-earth." Perhaps better than "mediators" is "interpreters," to describe one of their roles in the story. Does that make better sense?
 
The Silm, of course, is raw. It is not interpreted through a friendly, familiar character; we are given the characters and deeds and expected to make sense of them more or less ourselves. It occurred to me while compiling my notes for the Foreword that I really began to appreciate The Silm once I started reading it as historical documents. Suddenly, I had a "narrator," in a way, through which to make sense of things.
 
> Oh the famous �lfwine of LACE. ;c) I still believe he simply misunderstood the elves ;)
Lol, I can't wait to get to LaCE! I'm kind of chomping at the bit, actually...I might move it ahead, since it is of interest to so many people.
 
I have issues with �lfwine too, but I can rant and ramble for hours on this, so I'll save this for when we actually get to LaCE....
 
> I really really like this idea, to see the Silmarillion through Bilbo's eyes, well I admit I really like Bilbo, but it creates such a different dimension if the Silmarillion we came to read, is told through a hobbit's perspective. Knowing their nature and that he based his stories on his sources who might hold grudges to, for example the Feanorians and might not have told the full truth... *ignores the bunnies popping up*
 
Exactly! This is always one of my points when I'm forced to engage in...erm, discussions (to be nice about it) with canatics. (And I should say that I have nothing against canatics; I am myself a canatic in many ways. I should say vicious, proselytizing, single-minded canatics.) While J.R.R.T. may have waffled a bit about who "wrote" the various parts of The Silm, it seems fairly certain that he always envisioned an author other than himself. And once we give The Silm an "author" who was a part of Arda, then we remove omniscience, for one. If Pengolodh, for example, wrote the bits of the Quenta that take place in Beleriand, then how did he know what went on among the Feanorians before Fingolfin's people arrived many years later? (And actually, I'm pretty sure that Pengolodh was born in Nevrast, so he wasn't even alive for the events of the early First Age.) How did he later know what happened outside of Gondolin, once his people were sequestered from the rest of Bele riand? He had to get his information from others, others who may have lied or skewed the truth for various reasons that aren't too hard to imagine. Also, the narrator himself possesses a bias and motives for presenting history in a certain way. To use Pengolodh again, as a subject of Turgon, there were some things that he simply couldn't say unless he really wanted to stir things up. And perhaps, even then, his words were under the control of his King?
 
To give a real-life scenario, Person A and Person B have a terrible argument in sight and earshot of a dozen friends and coworkers. If you, as the historian, are trying to get an accurate account of this fight, then you go and interview each of the dozen witnesses. Now depending on each person's allegiance (to Person A? or to Person B?) and ulterior motives (perhaps Person B is a person of power worth appeasing?), each will present the scenario differently. So who do you trust? Well, you have your own allegiances and motives that effect how you weigh and interpret information. Suppose that Person A embodies an ethic that you favor; it is to your advantage to cast her favorably. Or perhaps Person B is *your* boss; now you are casting *her* favorably out of fear of retribution. Even if without doing so consciously, bias is a part of all of us that exists outside of our conscious control. My point is that I think it's silly to assume that the narrators of The Silm were likewise w ithout bias and personal motives when they presented the history.
 
Bilbo as a narrator, actually, might be one that I trust the most. I can't think of any reason that he would have to skew things in a particular way, since the history is so long past and does not involve him--or even Hobbits at all--in any way. But it says in the Foreword that he wrote the Red Book of Westmarch using sources "written and living" in Rivendell. *These* sources certainly cast things a certain way. Surely, he spoke at length with Elrond; as the son of Earendil and Elwing, having been fostered by Maedhros and Maglor, surely he has his own private allegiances that prevent him from ever being entirely neutral. Perhaps this is why Maedhros and Maglor are treated more gently in The Silm while Celegorm and Curufin are vilified, for example?
 
I try to remember that each character had to sleep at night. Each character had to justify his actions to *himself* (or herself) above all others. And so there is a second side--or many sides, even--to every story that bears consideration. But then, I like untangling complex canon, so this is fun for me. :)
 
And I really did *not* intend to ramble about canon first thing Monday morning. Alas, I could be up to worse things! ;)
Take care,
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild.
~oOo~
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_20028_1169479661_0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 621 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36558 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2007 01:27:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2007 01:27:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2007 01:27:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 01:27:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 01:27:00 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 01:27:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: HoMe1--"The Cottage of Lost Play" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=Q4FYrunhWlRvP3NjI--xR_j8yMCNn8WiOhWyy_yyXYQtojUQyZna X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, For those of you following along with the History of Middle-earth = reading, the next bit we will be discussing is posted in our group's files.= "The Cottage of Lost Play" is one of J.R.R.T.'s earliest works, and it int= roduces the immortal realm of the Elves as seen through the eyes of the Eng= lish explorer Eriol (=C6lfwine). Early ideas about the fates of the immorta= l Elves are presented, and some familiar people and places begin to assume = their identities. I will be posting a summary in a few days, so this shoul= d give those of you who would like to read it before the summary the time t= o do so. FYI, since I've been approached about archiving the summaries, th= ey are archived for the time being on our LJ community. This link should gi= ve you all of the summaries that I've posted so far: http://community.live= journal.com/silwritersguild/tag/home+reading Eventually, they will make th= eir way as webpages and downloadable PDF files onto our webpage. For those= who might need a reminder of how to access the material being discussed: = 1) Log into our group's homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Silmarillio= nWritersGuild/ 2) On the left sidebar, choose FILES. 3) Open the folder cal= led "The History of Middle-earth" and select the piece that you would like = to download and read. As usual, feel free to contact me if you have questi= ons or need help. Best regards, Dawn Felagund From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 622 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59120 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2007 05:37:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2007 05:37:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc11.comcast.net) (206.18.177.51) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2007 05:37:24 -0000 Received: from amailcenter07.comcast.net ([204.127.225.107]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070203051909b1100lfbsme>; Sat, 3 Feb 2007 05:19:09 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter07.comcast.net; Sat, 03 Feb 2007 05:19:09 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 05:19:09 +0000 Message-Id: <020320070519.11577.45C41B4C000D1F8C00002D3922165514060B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Newsletter--February 2007 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=auUa1cstgyyiHCuwH2bVDl9t6pQm_Ki2K6Dt-FFfPIlSGNqbD0ct X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, Our newsletter--including new challenges--is now posted in our LiveJournal community! http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/79781.html Best wishes for a month of happy muses! Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 623 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22455 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2007 21:50:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2007 21:50:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.214) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2007 21:50:29 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2007 21:50:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2007 21:50:12 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 21:50:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <020320070519.11577.45C41B4C000D1F8C00002D3922165514060B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: job posting X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=j2Lz06gFoS_3V6j1wwJVF_xE-RKs-it365WfuvV1YBtIBg7PHC2ofDQG X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses Hi, Dawn, I've been meaning to write to you since the end of last year but = it's been quite a rough time - nothing bad really but, as a friend said, = too many windows open on the screen. December was kind of hell with millio= ns of things to do and in January I was blissfully away from Buenos Aires.= February has come and I'm still procrastinating so here comes the officia= l offer: I am willing to try my hand as reference reader. I promise to be = as open-minded as I can and to stop putting things off. About access to so= urce materials, I have the obvious (Sil + LOTR + Hobbit, the last two in S= panish also) and HOME 1, 2, 10, 11 and 12 (little wonder). I don't seem to= have neither the energy nor the time for creative writing but I do enjoy = helping and, in some way, return part of the pleasure I've had reading th= e stories. And talking about stories, for some time I have also been meanin= g to ask you one (more) question about a detail in AMC - blame it on the = repeated readings of the Makalaure chapters which I find really delightful= . You wrote in ch 18: "...as the messenger speaks of the other students an= d of the performances done in the city squares, a visceral giddiness makes= me long for the ending of summer and then autumn, for the passing of my = begetting day and the Winter Feast, so that Nelyo and I may journey to Alq= ualond=EB." Then on ch 44: "...On an ordinary morning, a month before the N= ew Year Festival, Nelyo and I depart for Alqualond=EB from Tirion. It is = late autumn and as bland a day as any in Valinor..." (the trip was moved f= orward to the end of autumn?) and then in ch 47, he celebrates his begetti= ng day in Alqualonde. Do I get it wrong or is there a slip-up in the time = line of the story? I tried unsuccessfully to finish reading The Tapestries= while on the beach (there was a place with Internet connection with a vie= w to the sea, really nice but not very conducive to concentrating on a sto= ry about dead people). I'll try to start all over from chapter 1 now. On a= different issue, I found your post about the Proud to be white message d= isturbing, unsettling, even frightening and very, very interesting. To us = it seems like something that you can only find in movies, not real people = that are sitting next to you at work. Quite an eye opener. And by the way,= it was great to learn that was everything was ok with your health -hugs= and kisses- Take care Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 624 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9509 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2007 21:08:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m38a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2007 21:08:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.225.92) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 2007 21:08:55 -0000 Received: from amailcenter06.comcast.net ([204.127.225.106]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070216201500b12001o7upe>; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 20:15:00 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter06.comcast.net; Fri, 16 Feb 2007 20:14:59 +0000 To: henneth_annun@yahoogroups.com (Henneth Annun), SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 20:14:59 +0000 Message-Id: <021620072014.20971.45D610C30006DB8B000051EB22165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: HoMe1--"The Cottage of Lost Play"--summary X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=QYpT_3y8Q5J3jX6Lta1_ke5-_UFFx3-L8qV4evITsFw3MrdtcIwG X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund History of Middle-earth, Volume I: The Book of Lost Tales I "The Cottage of Lost Play" Summary --- "The Cottage of Lost Play" was probably written around 1916-1917 and details the first leg of the journey of the wanderer Eriol after he sails from the Great Lands to the island of Tol Eress�a. After arriving upon Tol Eress�a and travelling for many days, the evening hours came upon Eriol, and he wished to rest. He arrived at a town upon a hill at the center of the island and found a cottage lit enticingly from within. Upon sight of the cottage, his wanderlust died, and he inquired if he might stay there. He was told that the cottage was built by Lindo and Vair� and--despite its tiny size--was home to many people and many children. All who entered must become very small themselves, and consenting to this, Eriol was taken as a guest in the cottage. His hosts welcomed him and invited him to supper. The children were summoned to supper with the sound of a gong; later, they will be summoned for stories with three chimes of the gong. As the supper began, Eriol inquired about the cottage. Lindo his host explained that Alalmin�r� is the centremost and fairest realm of the island, and that the town is called Koromas or Kortirion. Here, in a circle of elms, lives Meril-i-Turinqi, a descendent of Inw�. The Eldar had come to the island after Inw� led them forth to the lands of Men, and his son Ingil gathered on Tol Eress�a the fairest and wisest of the Eldar, among whom were the fathers of Lindo and Vair�. Ingil had been the one who built the tower of Kortirion. As the meal ended, all but Eriol filled their cups with a drink called limp� that keeps the Eldar young and full of song. As Lindo explained, only Meril-i-Turinqi may offer this to visitors, and those who drink of it must remain on the island until the Faring Forth. After this, the gong sounded three times, and all departed to hear stories. Eriol asked to hear stories of the island. Vair� told of how in the days of Inw�, in Valinor near to K�r, there had been a wondrous garden and, at the end of a path called Ol�r� Mall� (the Path of Dreams), a cottage called the Cottage of the Children. Mistakenly, in the legends of Men, this is called the Cottage of Lost Play. During their dreams, the earliest children of Men could visit the Cottage of the Children, and the Eldar sought to guide them here, for the children that strayed beyond to the city of K�r either failed to return--and were a grief to their parents--or could not forget the wonder of that realm and were regarded as strange by other Men. Those who did return from K�r went on to pen songs and stories that were a delight to many generations of Men. Most of the children, however, were content to play in the cottage and its gardens. But when the fairies left K�r, the path to the cottage was blocked, and there was no longer a safe way for the children to visit. Without this, the thoughts of Men became bleak, and Meril-i-Turinqi asked Lindo to devise a solution. This was how the cottage that Eriol had found--the Cottage of Lost Play--came into existence. The children who had wandered to and remained in K�r were brought to the Cottage of Lost Play, where they rehearse the songs and stories of the Eldar. On occasion, they are sent into the lands of Men and, sometimes, do not return. Those who do return bring strange and often sad tidings. These children are sent to whisper to sleeping children in the lands of Men and ease their loneliness. Eriol recalled that his ancestors had spoken of visiting such a place as Vair� had described. Afterward, he had been seized with restlessness and had died while trying to find the place again. Vair� agreed that he likely had come to Eldamar. "The Cottage of Lost Play" is interesting, as it shows the beginnings of some of the legends that will comprise The Silmarillion and also includes some ideas that J.R.R.T. quickly abandoned. The whole "Eriol story"--of which "Cottage" is part--was an attempt by J.R.R.T. to provide a distinctly English fairy story. He attempted to tie his mythology in with the actual history of England, and the original conception of his myth ended with the English occupation of Britain. Based on J.R.R.T.'s notes, it is fairly clear that he connected Eriol with the brothers Hengest and Horsa. While the existence of these men as historical figures is called into question, they are credited with the conquest of Britain in the 5th century A.D. In J.R.R.T.'s version of the tale, these (possibly) historical figures were connected to the mythological figure of Eriol. Eriol was a son of Eoh, who had been slain by his brother Beorn. Eriol later went on to father two sons--Hengest and Horsa--who would avenge Eoh's death and conquer Britain. Tol Eress�a itself would become England, and two particular English towns were held synonymous with places in Tol Eress�a. While the "Faring Forth" is not discussed in great detail this early in the story, C.T. does mention briefly in the commentary that it was a time when Tol Eress�a was uprooted and brought near to the Great Lands with the intention of rescuing the Eldar who were stranded there. At this time, Men invaded the island, claimed it as their own (as the land that would become England), and as the Elves were forced into hiding, their fading began. The early versions of the tale, then, are set before the Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain, and were never completed. Later, the story underwent some changes: Eriol became �lfwine, who sailed to Tol Eress�a during the Anglo-Saxon period of English history. There were several aspects of the early mythology that were quickly abandoned by Professor Tolkien. The first--and perhaps most noticeable in this particular tale--was the notion that children are able to visit Valinor in their dreams and the idea that the roads to Valinor will one day be "thronged with�Men." This stands in stark contrast to the ideas presented in The Silmarillion, where mortal Men are strictly barred from any entry into the Blessed Realm. Also abandoned was the notion that the Elves become diminutive in stature and "filmy" in appearance as Men become dominant and the Elves begin to fade. However, even in this very early work, one can find allusions to the legends that will later feature in The Silmarillion. When the town of Kortirion was built after the Elves returned from the Great Lands, this refers to the return of the Eldar after the war with Melkor at the end of the First Age. (With one small inconsistency: Inw�--who becomes Ingw� in the later stories--is said here to die during the battle. In The Silmarillion, though many of the Vanyar go to Beleriand to fight Melkor, Ingw� remains in Valinor.) A reference is also made to E�rendel's voyage to K�r (Tirion), and the mention of the "Magic Sun" of Valinor might suggest an early version of the Two Trees. Because the Elvish language was evolving rapidly at this time, many of the names used in this particular story later evolved into names more familiar to those who have read The Silmarillion. -K�r represents here Tirion and T�na, as the name for both the city and the hill. -Inw� becomes Ingw�. -The Great Lands are an early version of the Outer Lands, which includes Middle-earth. -The Solosimpi will later be known as the Teleri. The Telleli will later be known as the Vanyar. In early versions of the mythology, the Vanyar were known as the Teleri. -Manw� as the name of Lindo's father does not refer to the Vala and was possibly in error. Likewise, Vair� in this story is not one of the Valar either. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 625 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27378 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 22:51:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 22:51:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc16.comcast.net) (206.18.177.56) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 22:51:54 -0000 Received: from amailcenter02.comcast.net ([204.127.225.102]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070224223403b1600apul9e>; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:34:03 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter02.comcast.net; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:34:03 +0000 To: henneth_annun@yahoogroups.com (Henneth Annun), SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:34:03 +0000 Message-Id: <022420072234.9998.45E0BD5A000A3C4E0000270E22165258060B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: "The Music of the Ainur" Is Available! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=u_ipXp8P5MdF6vGadPHqSEnU7qcO_ffI9BfZAFP1t28At7dYEtw8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, Just a quick note to let you know that HoMe1, "The Music of the Ainur" is next up in the HoMe reading, and a copy is now available on our Yahoo! homepage for those who do not have access to the book. Accessing the file is easy. Simply log onto Yahoo, visit the group's homepage, choose FILES from the left sidebar, and find the folder called "The History of Middle-earth." The file is called "HoMe1--The Music of the Ainur" and is available for download in .pdf format. As usual, if you have trouble getting the file, simply drop me a private email, and I will send it to you. Also, keep in mind that I have proofed the piece for errors, but it should never be used as a replacement for the original. These files were originally scanned from the book, and text conversion of scanned files always results in boo-boos (and my eye is far from perfect!) I think that this one is a quicker, easier read than "The Cottage of Lost Play," particularly for those of you already familiar with "The Ainulindale." I will have a summary available very soon and look forward to hearing any thoughts others might have to offer. My best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 626 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95856 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2007 11:34:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2007 11:34:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.25) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2007 11:34:50 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2007 11:33:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2007 11:33:57 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 11:33:56 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: The Alphabet of Middle-earth - Writing Cues for B2MeM X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=S8l_fihmy1sv5ASgZ9qC_9QVBky4kbx5CdV5ltS-5eYiSOxCdw X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic To celebrate the "Back to Middle-earth Month 2007" the writers' workshop= "There and Back Again" ( http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/ )= presents: The Alphabet of Middle-earth - A series of short cues to inspi= re you throughout March. We have included some very special "characters" so= that there are exactly 31 cues to titillate your muses. One cue for each d= ay of B2MeM. We invite you to pick up any cue, any time, and to post your = take as a comment for the relevant entry. No matter if you write a drabble = or a quibble (500 words), no matter if it's serious or silly, anything goes= . And here's already the first cue for the first day of the "Back to Middle= -earth Month 2007": A - like an antagonistic Arwen. Have fun, have muses= , have drabbles! Yours JunoMagic & Aranel Took *** "There and Back Again= (and how to get there in the first place)" - a writers' workshop for Tolki= en fan fiction in LJ style: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3D= there_n_back From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 627 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45409 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2007 01:49:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2007 01:49:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc12.comcast.net) (206.18.177.52) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2007 01:49:12 -0000 Received: from amailcenter04.comcast.net ([204.127.225.104]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070302013751b1200o1qeue>; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 01:37:51 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter04.comcast.net; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:37:51 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:37:51 +0000 Message-Id: <030220070137.5908.45E77FEF00078EC10000171422165499760B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: March Newsletter and B2MeM X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=HqbRbjpEEijYrvSDU7QUIFFUeNCIXnSMoLo7rIlBPRWJQiO0ttOM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, Our March newsletter and new challenges are posted! You can check them out on our LJ community here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/81827.html Also, as many of you might already know, March is Back to Middle-earth Month. This year, for B2MeM, we will be taking a journey through the history of Arda, beginning in the Deeps of Time and ending in the Third Age. There will be a different "stop" every day and a new quote from The Silmarillion. If these quotes inspire you to create something--stories, poems, drabbles, or art--or come up with new ideas, then please feel free to share them! Or just follow along with a new quote from The Silmarillion every day. The quotes will be tagged in our journal community here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2mem+2007 Does anyone else have B2MeM plans that you'd like to share? Please feel free to do so! :) Best wishes (and happy muses) to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 628 Return-Path: X-Sender: rykscoogan@cox.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74381 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2007 09:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2007 09:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.163) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2007 09:58:28 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n6.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2007 09:58:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2007 09:58:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2007 09:58:18 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:58:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ennorwen" Subject: JingleBells in June Fic Swap... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190060963; y=7h2DBzk3oz_3gsuM348_TXbgEArTOpt1ZMlbCLugXh1FUwxzwA X-Yahoo-Profile: ennorwen Thanks to DawnFelagund who allowed me to post this here - Really - we'd lo= ve to have lots 'o First Age Fics to read and write...Please consider part= icipating... Sign up now for the mid-summer FP Slashy Santa exchange! Fro= m the Years of the Trees through the Fourth Age =96 it's time once again t= o make your Tolkien FPS fanfic dreams come true=85 Have you always wanted = to read a certain pairing or scenario, but couldn't write it yourself? Or= have a plot bunny that's been rolling around in your mind, but just can't= see yourself writing that particular story? Have it written for you =96 = specifically and especially for your own sweet self! And share your own f= ic gift in exchange - That's right, it's time for `JingleBells in June 20= 07,' the second annual mid-season fiction exchange, brought to your fandom= by the same folks who sponsor the renowned Slashy Santa Fiction Exchange.= This year, the exchange will focus solely on the fantasy world of J.R.R.= Tolkien. Whether it's Elves, Men, Valar, Maiar, Hobbits, or Dwarves (or = even Orcs!) that strike your fancy =96 from the First Age to the Fourth = =96 spread the word, recruit your friends and fellow authors, and have som= e fun! Sign-ups begin Monday, March 12, 2007 and will close at midnight (G= MT- 5:00) on Monday, March 26, 2007. All stories will be unveiled on the = http://www.geocities.com/slashysanta/ site on Monday, June 25, 2007. How d= oes a fiction exchange work? It's simple. Sign up at http://www.geocitie= s.com/slashysanta/signup.html to specify a pairing, rating, and the plot e= lements you would like to read, as well as the elements you are willing to= write, and someone will write a story for you. In exchange, you will wri= te a story for someone else using the specifications they provide. All st= ories will be submitted directly to the swap coordinators =96 you will not= know whom you are writing for, nor will you know who has your request, un= til all fiction is posted on the Slashy Santa website. Even if you don't = want to take part in the exchange, you can still elect to be a reserve wri= ter to be called upon in case of an emergency. Just say so on the signup = form. All we ask is that you adhere to some basic rules =96 If you sign up= , please make sure that you can follow through and write at least 1,200 w= ords. Please note also that this is a SLASH only FPS exchange (no RPS or = het, please). Visit http://geocities.com/slashysanta/rules.html for the = full set of rules and Frequently Asked Questions. Here are some importa= nt dates to make note of: **Sign-up period: March 12 - 26 **Assignments t= o be distributed: by April 9 **Deadline for story submissions: June 4 **P= ublication Date: June 25 Come check out our site at http://www.geocities.= com/slashysanta/ and peruse some of the past entries =96 they're terrific = and will give you an idea of what's in store! Hope to see you there! The= Admins Slashy Santa `'Tis Always the Season for Slash!' (Please feel fre= e to copy this message and post on any groups you manage or in which you a= re a member.) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 629 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33168 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2007 23:02:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2007 23:02:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.108) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2007 23:02:50 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n11.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2007 23:02:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2007 23:02:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2007 23:02:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:02:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=jFsMDPjMJ2eIjEJr5savxUNoo1Q_4psF3myH_MGGbFWabQ_h4SI X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Based on the stories you have read/written, what would you say is the most = frequent injury sustained by elves in fan fiction and why? Poisoning? Brok= en bones? Which bones? Stab wounds? Stabbed where? Flesh wounds sustained d= uring torture or a romp through the brambles/woods/low-ceilinged caves? Any= thing else I've missed? I was pondering this while paying bills last even= ing (obviously I felt tortured with the amount our bank account is hemorrha= ging this month :-( ahahhahha) I have noticed that certain types of inju= ries seem to be common depending on the elf(ves) used in the story (that co= uld so be taken wrong in many ways, but I am referring to elves "STARRING" = in the stories). Anyway, in my observation, Haldir gets a lot of broken ri= bs, dislocated shoulders, and gashes to the arms and legs. Elrond's sons ge= t a lot of head injuries, sprained ankles, broken arms/legs, occasionally b= roken ribs and dislocated shoulders. Glorfindel rarely gets injured at all = and his hair always looks good - unless he's in one of my stories in which = case I can beat the dude up pretty good. Elrond's sons and Haldir all seem = to get poisoned a lot, too, and tortured. Rumil and Orophin seem to get a l= ot of broken arms and legs and shoulder injuries, but I can't really think = of what else seems to plague them. I haven't noticed as much injury in Fir= st Age fics as they seem to focus elsewhere. The injuries are usually battl= e injuries, though, unless little Elrond or Elros are getting hurt in some = way. What injuries usually plague Elrond, Legolas, Erestor, Celeborn, and = Galadriel? I rarely see anything about them, but I don't read Legolas fics = really either so it's not surprising I know nothing about him. As far as b= roken hearts are concerned, it seems to me that Haldir and Maglor get a lot= of those. Who do you see getting beat up on in the romance arena? Anyway,= I'm interested in other opinions on this subject. Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 630 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87786 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2007 23:15:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2007 23:15:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2007 23:15:52 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA2E58009 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:15:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:15:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:15:21 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <767062964.20070314001521@tlen.pl> To: ellfine2000 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=7iKh4jbeeo4I0z51gR0YN2R0VPGXFCTfSsPAxpt8kd-NpfW4a3A X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Ellie, for some, unknown reason Maedhros gets to have cut hand often, I have no idea why. What a pervy authors ;) Sorry for silliness - interesting thread, good to know more of that. I agree with Maglor's broken heart - of in fact - soul, he is always the most suffering one of the 7 - from the oath and all the crime they have done for it. Maedhros would be the second one in line in this competition. He also tends to have bruises after Angband, lasting for loooong time, even till his end. I always wondered if in fact any wound would be so long lasting for an elf. Expect parts of flesh cut out, but I think it wasn't that horrible with him. Have the authors such wounds in mine when they wrote about scars visible for example after the Mouth of Sirion assault? No idea. I wish to discuss more, but can't doing it now (packing and leaving home for a while), hope others will :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 631 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70082 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2007 23:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2007 23:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2007 23:45:44 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.d07.b12245c (41810) for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:44:36 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1173829476" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5037 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=gTcBfhX6CCjPN-el8_RJ-I1KVBivM-JQ8UDm5BirMAo7NeibUl1d X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1173829476 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fascinating--when I received this email, I was at that exact moment dealing with injuries received by Maedhros. I had actually spent a great deal of time recently thinking about the extent of his injuries and damage. I decided that after the missing hand, I was going with lesser permanent damage, rather than maximum imaginable injuries, based upon the accomplishments of Maedhros and Fingon immediately following upon his rescue from the cliffs. My logic was twofold: 1) elves heal; 2) if Maedhros were the basket case he is usually presented as being, he could not have pulled off the feats of diplomacy required around the abdication of the kingship and the reunification of the Noldor. Meanwhile, I also am breaking with tradition on the question of the state of Maglor at that point in history and am painting him as sad and upset, but effective and determined, rather than falling to pieces and destroyed. He did hold his people together; kept his brothers from running off and smashing themselves to bits up against the cliffs of Thangorodrim and destroying themselves and all of their people before Fingolfin, Fingon, et al. could even show up. Time will tell if my tactics work, or if I am making a big mistake. On other elves--I've noticed Haldir gets hurt a lot (accident prone?), often times badly. Also, Legolas in fanon is the sickest little elf of all. He apparent has none of the immunity to illnesses of his kind. He also gets tortured, beaten and starved, even gnawed on by rats.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1173829476 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Fascinating--when= I received this email, I was at that exact moment dealing with injur= ies received by Maedhros.
 
I had actually spen= t a great deal of time recently thinking about the extent of his injuries = and damage. I decided that after the missing hand, I was going with lesser= permanent damage, rather than maximum imaginable injuries, based upon the= accomplishments of Maedhros and Fingon immediately following upon his res= cue from the cliffs. My logic was twofold: 1) elves heal; 2) if Maedh= ros were the basket case he is usually presented as being, he could n= ot have pulled off the feats of diplomacy required around the abdication o= f the kingship and the reunification of the Noldor. Meanwhile, I also am b= reaking with tradition on the question of the state of Maglor at that poin= t in history and am painting him as sad and upset, but effective and deter= mined, rather than falling to pieces and destroyed. He did hold his people = together; kept his brothers from running off and smashing themselves to bi= ts up against the cliffs of Thangorodrim and destroying themselves and all= of their people before Fingolfin, Fingon, et al. could even show up. Time= will tell if my tactics work, or if I am making a big mistake.
 
On other elves--I've noticed Haldir gets hurt a lot (acc= ident prone?), often times badly. Also, Legolas in fanon is the sickest li= ttle elf of all. He apparent has none of the immunity to illnesses of his = kind. He also gets tortured, beaten and starved, even gnawed on by rats.


AOL now offers free email= to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------------------------1173829476-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 632 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91257 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 00:03:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 00:03:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.127) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 00:03:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 92236 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2007 00:03:11 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: pFYy3.cVM1kDVW2QYKgy7xYg4GutvYin4xagilDLORchUqcKuqzEy5_zJEbnigRVHKbdM2MEG0KpoVxg4XwCQs2SS3Q4abUukPfJcNqJMyLzVoi3LWDlHpjL5T1SWrkfdyV0NmMOl99ezJ11HYrJZvhfHA-- Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:03:10 PDT Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:03:10 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <767062964.20070314001521@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-542227844-1173830590=:92233" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <924864.92233.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=TZ_jOC8mqv5MdU6stwY5em261g6WJ8XTFLYpwIZWYGHFADi94nJPqWE X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-542227844-1173830590=:92233 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey all, >for some, unknown reason Maedhros gets to have cut hand often, I have no idea why. What a pervy authors ;) I've noticed this too!! It's as though one sick person thought of it, and it just sort of...caught on. Everyone's doing it! I confess to have the urge to follow this trend myself sometimes...;P >I always wondered if in fact any wound would be so long lasting for an elf. I've actually wondered sort of the opposite. Is there a quote somewhere in Tolkien's works that says elves don't scar? Did I miss it/forget it? If it doesn't exist, where did the idea come from and why is it so prevalent? I can't remember any specific passages about elves and scarring, but maybe someone else can point out one (if there is one. And if it's in HoME, that's why I haven't read it. ;-) ) I've seen stories where elves never show scarring, some where they only show scarring if the wound is self-inflicted, some where they scar like humans do, only to a lesser extent... At any rate, I myself think that it's unlikely that elves never have any scarring. It's hard to say. One one...er, side, scars generally tend to fade over time. What could be a lifelong scar for a human might not be so for an elf. Then again, major scars (such as from a quick-n-dirty amputation or X-years-long torture session in Angband) last a loooooong time, and it's hard to say exactly how long such a scar would take to disappear completely. Whether or not something like that would be visible after 500 years is a guess at best. Anyways........Sorry to deviate from the topic already!! I'll go answer the original questions now, I swear! ;-P Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --0-542227844-1173830590=:92233 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hey all,
>for some, unknown reason Maedhros gets to have cut hand often, I have no idea why. What a pervy authors ;)
I've noticed this too!! It's as though one sick person thought of it, and it just sort of...caught on. Everyone's doing it! I confess to have the urge to follow this trend myself sometimes...;P
>I always wondered if in fact any wound would be so long lasting for an elf.
I've actually wondered sort of the opposite. Is there a quote somewhere in Tolkien's works that says elves don't scar? Did I miss it/forget it? If it doesn't exist, where did the idea come from and why is it so prevalent?

I can't remember any specific passages about elves and scarring, but maybe someone else can point out one (if there is one. And if it's in HoME, that's why I haven't read it. ;-) ) I've seen stories where elves never show scarring, some where they only show scarring if the wound is self-inflicted, some where they scar like humans do, only to a lesser extent... At any rate, I myself think that it's unlikely that elves never have any scarring. It's hard to say. One one...er, side, scars generally tend to fade over time. What could be a lifelong scar for a human might not be so for an elf. Then again, major scars (such as from a quick-n-dirty amputation or X-years-long torture session in Angband) last a loooooong time, and it's hard to say exactly how long such a scar would take to disappear completely. Whether or not something like that would be visible after 500 years is a guess at best.

Anyways........Sorry to deviate from the topic already!! I'll go answer the original questions now, I swear! ;-P

Tarion



~T�rion

Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --0-542227844-1173830590=:92233-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 633 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36798 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 00:20:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 00:20:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.127) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 00:20:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 98175 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2007 00:20:14 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _s_MlrEVM1lAMFYHU2Wk7iDMtq2MFbXpj_3BfNsPZdEk8zUvslZX7hiZmK0uBztXU.dFdIryhN2diSlUUjkzdAXsovslgC0RKFUQE5XGsPQhskTsLuMsCzRZlJDN1GFB75037JTK13wjPKPja95a_RqwFw-- Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:20:14 PDT Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:20:14 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1783935301-1173831614=:97833" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <103609.97833.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=kwZEiZw2gg8ZvCVDMHF8e_ZWDQABZeSUB5T4cAAqbj5Zy-ZGFDT6Xqk X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1783935301-1173831614=:97833 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Ellie, To start, I will definitely agree with you and Sirielle that Maglor does seem to get a heavy dose of heartache. So does Maedhros, though less in the romantic sense than the "oh, my life sucks!" sense. (Yes, Nelyo, we've all acknowledged that your life sucks. So does mine. Now hush. ;-P ) I seem to recall a lot of the classic "tie 'em up and beat 'em" elf torture fics. Whipping and the like. Or maybe a poisoned whip for added pain! Also a lot of "watch-your-companion-be-tortured!!" scenes for intense emotional agony. I'm not sure about the other characters you mentioned, but Erestor (if he's not captured and tortured so that fair Glorfindel can save him) it seems is usually depressed and suicidal, and his wounds are self-inflicted. I don't see so much of this need to injure and torture in First Age fics - maybe because it's already there, without authors adding it in. Injuries mine get usually are minor wounds or battle wounds - or they die their gruesome deaths (par for the course in the First Age though, ;-P ). Though I am suddenly tempted to have Asfaloth stomp on Glorfindel's foot.........>:D Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. --0-1783935301-1173831614=:97833 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Ellie,

To start, I will definitely agree with you and Sirielle that Maglor does seem to get a heavy dose of heartache. So does Maedhros, though less in the romantic sense than the "oh, my life sucks!" sense. (Yes, Nelyo, we've all acknowledged that your life sucks. So does mine. Now hush. ;-P )

I seem to recall a lot of the classic "tie 'em up and beat 'em" elf torture fics. Whipping and the like. Or maybe a poisoned whip for added pain! Also a lot of "watch-your-companion-be-tortured!!" scenes for intense emotional agony. I'm not sure about the other characters you mentioned, but Erestor (if he's not captured and tortured so that fair Glorfindel can save him) it seems is usually depressed and suicidal, and his wounds are self-inflicted.

I don't see so much of this need to injure and torture in First Age fics - maybe because it's already there, without authors adding it in. Injuries mine get usually are minor wounds or battle wounds - or they die their gruesome deaths (par for the course in the First Age though, ;-P ). Though I am suddenly tempted to have Asfaloth stomp on Glorfindel's foot.........>:D

Tarion


~T�rion

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. --0-1783935301-1173831614=:97833-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 634 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50806 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 00:32:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 00:32:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 00:32:27 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.cde.b9d61c0 (41810) for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:32:21 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1173832341" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5037 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ZhnNOMWcGUD_O6ogpWQuuPZiYs4RVwpPsblL0tUptGExEAUOmruc X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1173832341 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think Tarion is right about the First Age--no need to dream up gratuitous gore and violence. Plenty of it for everyone. Take Fingon, for example: "At last Fingon stood alone with his guard dead about him; and he fought with Gothmog, until another Balrog came behind and cast a thong of fire about him. Then Gothmog hewed him with his black axe, and a white flame sprang up from the helm of Fingon as it was cloven. Thus fell the High King of the Noldor; and they beat him into the dust with their maces, and his banner, blue and silver, they trod into the mire of his blood." Can't get much bloodier and more violent than that.


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1173832341 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I think Tarion is= right about the First Age--no need to dream up gratuitous gore and violen= ce. Plenty of it for everyone. Take Fingon, for example:
 =
"At last Fingon stood alone with his guard d= ead about him; and he fought with Gothmog, until another Balrog came behin= d and cast a thong of fire about him. Then Gothmog hewed him with his blac= k axe, and a white flame sprang up from the helm of Fingon as it was clove= n. Thus fell the High King of the Noldor; and they beat him into the dust = with their maces, and his banner, blue and silver, they trod into the mire= of his blood."
 
<= DIV>Can't get much bloodier and more violent than that.<= /SPAN>



AOL now offers = free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1173832341-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 635 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54305 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 02:01:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 02:01:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.132) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 02:01:58 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2007 02:01:56 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2007 02:01:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2007 02:01:56 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 02:01:54 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=RYoTTSzwj4rwDnSq-O9PCTic9vMgi6zSTWvQughLNdZtfbDHHlg X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 It also seems to me that First Age fics - along with having violent encount= ers readily available - have much more emotion attached to their life situa= tions and much more drama than say the fics of later ages. I think the Sil = has more to work with in the emotion and angst departments and perhaps that= is why we don't have to be so violent with our characters of the First Age= . They have already suffered greatly just by virtue (or would that be vice?= ) of being a First Age elf in Middle-Earth. Still though, aren't the tren= ds in the consistent kinds of injuries suffered by certain elves interestin= g? Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 636 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22923 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 02:37:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 02:37:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.116) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 02:37:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 6866 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2007 02:37:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: qL0K.5wVM1loZp7idnXTXsl08H5KUNBqd5Gw33EgD9L8ajJipmgfyyaTaZg1XLt5p0._dc_qeKEKZOFsOSK_yHSRm0a.7pF1z.F6IyKoR9lbQCRU.WPUyKvz1fKeGqekePdsxsV7N_yPQJS58mc6hzwvNQ-- Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:37:40 PDT Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:37:40 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2044125176-1173839860=:6623" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <192240.6623.qm@web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=So5Dj57_k0Pp2hTuQVdkd9_e62W7ZHTpHKOYVvv4s7EvQUFqPzP2ua8 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-2044125176-1173839860=:6623 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think that's true too. A lot of Third Age torture fics seem emotionally detached - some elf/elves, maybe even your favorite elf, is/are being beaten, whipped, etc...yet, that isn't really bothersome. But you add the same directed violence to an emotion laden fic, it's perhaps too much. You don't *want* to know the gory details. The first is kind of liking watching the proverbial train wreck, the second is like being in the wreck. At least that's how I see it. Tarion ellfine2000 wrote: >It also seems to me that First Age fics - along with having violent encounters readily available - have much more emotion attached to their life situations and much more drama than say the fics of later ages. ~T�rion --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. --0-2044125176-1173839860=:6623 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think that's true too. A lot of Third Age torture fics seem emotionally detached - some elf/elves, maybe even your favorite elf, is/are being beaten, whipped, etc...yet, that isn't really bothersome. But you add the same directed violence to an emotion laden fic, it's perhaps too much. You don't *want* to know the gory details. The first is kind of liking watching the proverbial train wreck, the second is like being in the wreck.

At least that's how I see it.

Tarion

ellfine2000 wrote:
>It also seems to me that First Age fics - along with having violent
encounters readily available - have much more emotion attached to
their life situations and much more drama than say the fics of later
ages. 



~T�rion

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. --0-2044125176-1173839860=:6623-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 637 Return-Path: X-Sender: DAWNFELAGUND@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85764 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 15:53:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 15:53:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc13.comcast.net) (206.18.177.53) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 15:53:20 -0000 Received: from amailcenter06.comcast.net ([204.127.225.106]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070314145316b1300rrpnee>; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:53:16 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter06.comcast.net; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:53:16 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:53:16 +0000 Message-Id: <031420071453.17132.45F80C5B000E7871000042EC2216557996BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: REFXTkZFTEFHVU5EQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: DAWNFELAGUND@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=Fl1uqRWL6-INas86snM3Ctk_ktL0Ygsz2np8SuyepA7x55ULwdVE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Fascinating question, Ellie! :) Most of my stories are set before the Darkening, yet I still manage to injure my Elves on occasion. In "Another Man's Cage," Maglor falls off his horse while trying to stop wee!Celegorm's pony from bolting; he dislocates and lacerates his shoulder. Wee!Celegorm collides with Maedhros's beloved (Annawende) in the forge, and they both get burned. Rumil is described as having survived Angband, though he was deafened, muted, and mutilated in the process. In terms of broken hearts, Maedhros has his heart trod upon on several occasions. Nerdanel and Feanor hurt each other pretty regularly too. In "Salt," Caranthir gets a leg cramp and fakes drowning ... and nearly drowns for real. Curufin gets mortally wounded at Doriath. In "He Came Home" (unpublished story about the Darkening of Valinor), the Noldor in Valinor stand on the brink of starvation. Finarfin falls off his horse and breaks his arm. Earwen falls down the stairs on several occasions but manages to remain uninjured. In "Return to Me," Finrod's injuries at the hands/paws/jaws of the werewolf are described in loving detail as he is healed in Mandos. In "The Tapestries," Feanor plays tag with a bunch of Balrogs and loses. Maedhros gets captured and tortured. In "The Choices of Spirits," Caranthir has his arm cut by Orcs and his heart broken by Haleth. I could keep going ... but I'll spare you. ;) But I notice that a lot of these injuries are canon-based, particularly those that occur in Middle-earth. The Silmarillion is a violent book! Last night, I was thinking last night about the various ends that the Elves in The Silmarillion: Feanor gets wrapped in whips of flame by Balrogs and is mortally wounded. Maedhros is captured by Morgoth, hung by his wrist; his wrist is amputated by Fingon; he is wounded at the Battle of Unnumbered Tears; he kills himself by diving into a fiery chasm. In one of the HoMe, Celegorm is pierced by one thousand arrows. Regardless, he was slain at Doriath. So were Caranthir and Curufin. Curufin is also almost choked to death by Beren. Fingon is nearly chopped in half lengthwise and is finished off by being stomped into a bloodied pulp. Fingolfin suffers a severe beating by Morgoth and dies by having his throat crushed. Ecthelion drowns. Eol, Maeglin, Glorfindel, and Saeros all take tumbles from high places thanks to execution, treachery, heroism, and tomfoolery-by-hapless-mortal, respectively. Finrod and his closest buddies become chew toys for Sauron's werewolves. Again, I could keep going, but I am beginning to depress myself! :) Has anyone else ever noticed that in some places, there is a pretty large cache of Elf-torture fics related to the creation of Orcs? I remember finding a lot of these when I first started reading Silmfic. What really drew my attention was that the stories were pretty much just excuses to describe gruesome torture; there was really no other purpose behind them. (To each his/her own; I am not saying that this is a bad thing, if this is what people want to write ... it was just interesting.) Okay, now I'm off to eat lunch and finish a story for my husband about gladiator fights. Happy Wednesday! :^P Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 638 Return-Path: X-Sender: DAWNFELAGUND@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84905 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 15:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 15:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc13.comcast.net) (206.18.177.53) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 15:53:50 -0000 Received: from amailcenter06.comcast.net ([204.127.225.106]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070314153950b1300rtfmbe>; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:39:50 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter06.comcast.net; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:39:49 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:39:49 +0000 Message-Id: <031420071539.2838.45F817450003FCC800000B162216557996BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: REFXTkZFTEFHVU5EQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: DAWNFELAGUND@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=3F0xyWlR7rdJ1wTzSjiHtHd56cSsziEDgm_OLDY0EaaHTPlaFUzm X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Tarion wrote: > I can't remember any specific passages about elves and scarring, but maybe > someone else can point out one (if there is one. And if it's in HoME, that's why > I haven't read it. ;-) ) Glad to oblige! :) I did a search of The Silmarillion, LotR, The Hobbit, Tolkien's Letters, and the HoMe for the word "scar." (Oh, how digital books make research so much easier! :^D) In all of these, I found four instances where physical scars on characters were mentioned. The first was a brown scar on the forehead of Merry in LotR. The second was the scar left on the face of Morgoth by Thorondor following Fingolfin's death; this evolves through the HoMe and into The Silmarillion. In HoMe 3, Morgoth earns a scar and a limp from Fingolfin: Thus Bauglir earned the furrowed scar that his dark countenance doth mar, and thus his limping gait he gained The same is mentioned in HoMe 4: Thus was Fingolfin overcome, for the earth was broken about his feet, and he tripped and fell, and Morgoth put his foot, that is heavy as the roots of hills, upon his neck. But this was not done before Ringil had given him seven wounds, and at each he had cried aloud. He goes halt in his left foot for ever, where in his last despair Fingolfin pierced it through and pinned it to the earth.(22) But the scar upon his face Fingolfin did not give. This was the work of Thorndor. The same is mentioned in HoMe 5: Neither Orc nor Balrog dared ever after to pass over the mount of Fingolfin or draw nigh his tomb, until the doom of Gondolin was come and treachery was born among his kin. Morgoth goes ever halt of one foot since that day, and the pain of his wounds cannot be healed; and in his face is the scar that Thorondor made. All of this reflects in the final version that appears in The Silmarillion: Morgoth went ever halt of one foot after that day, and the pain of his wounds could not be healed; and in his face was the scar that Thorondor made. ("Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin") Likewise, in the third instance, Morgoth's hands are said to have been permanently burned black by the touch of the Silmarils: His hands were burned black by the touch of those hallowed jewels, and black they remained ever after; nor was he ever free from the pain of the burning, and the anger of the pain. ("Of the Flight of the Noldor") The Silmarillion also mentions Gwindor not necessarily as being scarred but certainly damaged physically from his captivity in Angband: Grieving Beleg looked upon him; for Gwindor was now but a bent and fearful shadow of his former shape and mood, when in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad that lord of Nargothrond rode with rash courage to the very doors of Angband, and there was taken. ("Or Turin Turambar") This incident is elaborated further in HoMe 3 (Gwindor's name is Flinding here), and scars are specifically mentioned: 'Twas frail Finduilas, fleet and slender, to woman's stature, wondrous beauty, now grown in glory, that glad welcome there raised in ruth, and wrath was stilled. Locked fast the love had lain in her heart that in laughter grew long years agone when in the meads merrily a maiden played with fleet-footed Fuilin's youngling. No searing scars of sundering years could blind those eyes bright with welcome, and wet with tears wistful trembling at the grief there graven in grim furrows on the face of Flinding. I did not find any mention of Elves being immune to scarring, so unless it is in the UT (which I don't have a digital copy of, unfortunately) or in another source, then it seems perfectly within the realm of canon to have our Elves bear scars. :) In fact, given the fact that Ainur are certainly prone to scars (as exemplified by the two mentions of Morgoth bearing scars) and the strong possibility that Gwindor was scarred by his ordeal in Angband, then I would personally find it more feasible to declare that Elves _do_ scar. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 639 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80769 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 20:24:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 20:24:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.114) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 20:24:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 50880 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2007 20:24:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: iR8gQ8oVM1nyNRnjJdgriYUWHoqKpNHPjhV5owxYsjJCxfwXW1ccWOLLoKy.Ki2_T41BC_35rn94WsQN4qPVdVImeI5NFnGbYnNLkwDFKQFRr8vjK2almwxLV3YzEAwjFrvaIwW1L1zm8Q-- Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:24:49 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:24:49 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <031420071453.17132.45F80C5B000E7871000042EC2216557996BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-195773992-1173903889=:47629" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <723591.47629.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=fef55umrwIAqUZHR1d4m6VM9Hhu0NV7N2Omrp51BJRA7GZXBnLOKN9w X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-195773992-1173903889=:47629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well Dawn, there is an illustration for all these gruesome deaths... http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/tarion_anarore/14081.jpg *grin* All too true... Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-195773992-1173903889=:47629 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well Dawn, there is an illustration for all these gruesome deaths...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/tarion_anarore/14081.jpg

*grin* All too true...

Tarion


~T�rion

Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-195773992-1173903889=:47629-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 640 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93972 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 20:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 20:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.117) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 20:34:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 53799 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2007 20:33:59 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: JdDv9K8VM1m0sriJqplyGrfGHsHro8AVv5AAzPtG7Yf9Kn6Yh2B3LpcgHtPLw674o.J6nl8ZWnYxnJXqGwLawhbl2ptOKhAXhVIhijMmDStjMcSfu0EBq1VDbsmCidx8uu2tOC9Yr7atINPWVKEuwXsYIrP6neKkfw-- Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:33:54 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:33:54 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <031420071539.2838.45F817450003FCC800000B162216557996BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1085909862-1173904434=:53703" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <285743.53703.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=ndxfIQEt1sKSEKGN8DhmCk5TQXuM9qT7JYffomik21B9G6-Gb25GTqQ X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1085909862-1173904434=:53703 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>In fact, given the fact that Ainur are certainly prone to scars (as exemplified by the two mentions of Morgoth bearing scars) and the strong possibility that Gwindor was scarred by his ordeal in Angband, then I would personally find it more feasible to declare that Elves _do_ scar. Ah, I knew it! Actually, I did find it interesting that of the examples, only one of them actually referred specifically to elves! But I agree, if a Vala can bear scars, it's more than likely that an elf would too. And I'm glad that the examples support my scar theories. ;-) Thanks for the use of your vast knowledge and e-copies of books! :-) Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --0-1085909862-1173904434=:53703 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>In fact, given the fact that Ainur are certainly prone to scars (as exemplified by the two mentions of Morgoth bearing scars) and the strong possibility that Gwindor was scarred by his ordeal in Angband, then I would personally find it more feasible to declare that Elves _do_ scar.

Ah, I knew it! Actually, I did find it interesting that of the examples, only one of them actually referred specifically to elves! But I agree, if a Vala can bear scars, it's more than likely that an elf would too. And I'm glad that the examples support my scar theories. ;-)

Thanks for the use of your vast knowledge and e-copies of books! :-)

Tarion


~T�rion

Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --0-1085909862-1173904434=:53703-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 641 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10823 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 20:40:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 20:40:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.122) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 20:40:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 20580 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2007 20:39:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: fT9OcJkVM1lmSeJd9TcJEuMmB9pVQdgGGGgOz4po0QKT2Ff8Dd_CoxhE1lMTDfQLAZzWTJyFssEOMn0MuZN7VGq_DgKca8IzdYD29uniBySXjDCtTBkfTGULI71LJz6md9m3ja7nxBzSDWH7qabih38h Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:39:20 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:39:20 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <723591.47629.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1355341324-1173904760=:19809" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <867187.19809.qm@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=TBnrlSgTwd-5O0TFtc91me4YyqpKzphoyfHUa-tSOXyREO7pLsgENS4 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1355341324-1173904760=:19809 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Urgh! Photobucket hates me. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/tarion_anarore/wheelofmisfortune.jpg Sorry guys! My personal favorite is "subject for genetic experiment". *evil grin* ~T�rion --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. --0-1355341324-1173904760=:19809 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Urgh! Photobucket hates me.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/tarion_anarore/wheelofmisfortune.jpg

Sorry guys!

My personal favorite is "subject for genetic experiment". *evil grin*


~T�rion

It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. --0-1355341324-1173904760=:19809-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 642 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18539 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 21:07:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 21:07:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 21:07:33 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.c54.ecc4552 (41810) for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:50:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:50:06 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1173905406" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5037 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=xNzAxGt0P4gLsGylCNdvCFNWdImpp_6zdxSDAVJEhJoFA9WhW9ho X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1173905406 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Tarion. That's delightful. However, I find "subject for genetic experiment" to be almost more than I can bear--"balrog fodder" is plenty bad enough for me.


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1173905406 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Thanks, Tarion. T= hat's delightful. However, I find "subject for genetic experiment" to be a= lmost more than I can bear--"balrog fodder" is plenty bad enough for = me.



AOL now offers free= email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1173905406-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 643 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15213 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 21:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 21:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.116) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 21:19:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 9501 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2007 21:19:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: kMIHHngVM1nfhxU1puhFH07eTRwpL9hgZx958TDjO2oQ7AYjMKSkip7eDBsU3abjSvSnvNnpaVmB1loSNkdPaD1HogVY_5._G7eIbNK9OH9LhG5hln7ECmgV2MZRcIeJIc79dnNaAjluMo1GilxuzCmURg-- Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:19:55 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:19:55 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-62017636-1173907195=:9077" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <432200.9077.qm@web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=RtZ3CEB32RRj3DKk6MfAaJOXH7gZGlgzwexlpF09_OfbyNz8UBM6ffA X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-62017636-1173907195=:9077 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hehe, well, I'm a science nerd and find genetics very interesting...*eyes elves* Only kidding! I'm not *that* mean to my elves. ;D ~T�rion --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. --0-62017636-1173907195=:9077 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hehe, well, I'm a science nerd and find genetics very interesting...*eyes elves*
Only kidding! I'm not *that* mean to my elves. ;D


~T�rion

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. --0-62017636-1173907195=:9077-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 644 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37340 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 21:46:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 21:46:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.220) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 21:46:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2007 21:45:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2007 21:45:54 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:45:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <867187.19809.qm@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=mcsu7-96kwlODd8Mot2saGU1CAHzovku_hl4YQXCYiPnVR4L6D0 X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I can't get the link to work :-( Ellie Tarion Anarore wrote: > > Urgh! Photobucket hates me. > > http://i4.photobucket.com/al= bums/y130/tarion_anarore/wheelofmisfortune.jpg > > Sorry guys! > > My per= sonal favorite is "subject for genetic experiment". *evil grin* > > > ~T= =E1rion > > --------------------------------- > It's here! Your new messa= ge! > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 645 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80571 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 22:01:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 22:01:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web58311.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.164) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 22:01:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 29070 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2007 22:01:43 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: miVIwU4VM1lkh5ij8IFemDA8dpB_g5tO0uLn_BaeP3ppanalwB3JDwvtwALFQ8zSYP.Gj8HZTyPWDllW5N.TUspOgGs2dUOM.ERp_Bd7dsXr3YV.J9O8K__noyDHuVml.42BxUnxGNtFB6g- Received: from [71.235.106.34] by web58311.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:01:43 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:01:43 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1728734401-1173909703=:28824" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <397171.28824.qm@web58311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Niki S." Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=Qsr5WzjrIr3l_JBK2h-xNIcnxUs27i47wutFX6E7LECdcWo2nQ X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes --0-1728734401-1173909703=:28824 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For everyone trying to view the link and is having trouble with it: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/tarion_anarore/wheelofmisfortune.jpg For some reason, some spaces got inserted into it and are breaking the link--try copying and pasting the link into your URL bar, and then going through it and getting rid of any spaces you see in the URL before hitting "enter" (I had to delete three spaces before the link worked for me). Hope that helps :) -Pulsarkat ellfine2000 wrote: I can't get the link to work :-( Ellie Tarion Anarore wrote: > > Urgh! Photobucket hates me. > > http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/tarion_anarore/wheelofmisfortune.jpg > > Sorry guys! > > My personal favorite is "subject for genetic experiment". *evil grin* > > > ~T�rion > > --------------------------------- > It's here! Your new message! > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. --0-1728734401-1173909703=:28824 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For everyone trying to view the link and is having trouble with it:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/tarion_anarore/wheelofmisfortune.jpg

For some reason, some spaces got inserted into it and are breaking the link--try copying and pasting the link into your URL bar, and then going through it and getting rid of any spaces you see in the URL before hitting "enter" (I had to delete three spaces before the link worked for me).

Hope that helps :)

-Pulsarkat

ellfine2000 wrote:
I can't get the link to work :-(
Ellie

Tarion Anarore ...> wrote:
>
> Urgh! Photobucket hates me.
>
>
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/tarion_anarore/wheelofmisfortune.jpg
>
> Sorry guys!
>
> My personal favorite is "subject for genetic experiment". *evil grin*
>
>
> ~T�rion
>
> ---------------------------------
> It's here! Your new message!
> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
>


Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. --0-1728734401-1173909703=:28824-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 646 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19534 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 22:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 22:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.21) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 22:12:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2007 22:12:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2007 22:12:55 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 22:12:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031420071539.2838.45F817450003FCC800000B162216557996BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=1UFJUBrB0OsCCLluwisO4dacvDRxnPL8w07mrtoV_RiZ_PjmcgJu6HPb X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses So actually there's no textual reference to Maglor's scarred hand after th= e Silmaril incident? It is so recurrent in stories that I somehow expected= to find it on the list. Another instance of the power of fanon. All the b= est Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 647 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33205 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 00:02:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 00:02:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.106.32) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 00:02:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 47674 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Mar 2007 00:01:57 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: huuy7zoVM1nlk.Yf.Go9HsMdaiYzQuhF2EY2hjiU7vJ_ZLC18cSeujvn26V.nRjkrL4BvjP2y8GFV7yP1c2SZBdMOGdLIdkqtbvk4H_1in_Y4umzXsBBV5UJ6u.F83Nq Received: from [67.80.109.175] by web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 17:01:57 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 17:01:57 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-771920191-1173916917=:45831" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <621153.45831.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Calenlass Greenleaf Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=s-qYEb1E--b0stzi60Em6oDn1kb7ttj06OQURSLUxRt9-fV2yYi6QwTNAA X-Yahoo-Profile: eldariel_perdhel --0-771920191-1173916917=:45831 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I consider myself a Legolas fan (though Finrod has already long stolen the position of "favorite elf")...and as far as I can see, the elf usually suffers anything a writer can imagine. His most frequent injuries seem to be these: arrow wounds dislocated and broken bones (any) getting poisoned getting whipped That's mostly it, I think. ~Calenlass Greenleaf --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. --0-771920191-1173916917=:45831 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I consider myself a Legolas fan (though Finrod has already long stolen the position of "favorite elf")...and as far as I can see, the elf usually suffers anything a writer can imagine.
His most frequent injuries seem to be these:
arrow wounds
dislocated and broken bones (any)
getting poisoned
getting whipped
That's mostly it, I think.

~Calenlass Greenleaf

TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. --0-771920191-1173916917=:45831-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 648 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89647 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 01:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 01:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc11.comcast.net) (206.18.177.51) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 01:19:28 -0000 Received: from amailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.225.101]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070315005125b1100a6kbre>; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:51:25 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter01.comcast.net; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:51:24 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:51:24 +0000 Message-Id: <031520070051.12074.45F8988C0001008600002F2A22120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=mhUwNIT0vY2L_LLigIZc-Ur5H4MWHDXZnUzBqyqWhBN2Kd5F9Sti X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "angelica.ramses" > So actually there's no textual reference to Maglor's scarred hand > after the Silmaril incident? It is so recurrent in stories that I > somehow expected to find it on the list. Another instance of the power > of fanon. I remember being surprised at this too, though I think my realization came when summarizing the "Of Earendil" chapter for the Silm reading that I did on another list. I remember thinking, "Isn't something _missing_ here??" then, "Duh, Dawn, this is the original source!" ;) But this is the passage: And it is told of Maglor that he could not endure the pain with which the Silmaril tormented him; and he cast it at last into the Sea, and thereafter he wandered ever upon the shores, singing in pain and regret beside the waves. For Maglor was mighty among the singers of old, named only after Daeron of Doriath; but he came never back among the people of the Elves. And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters. So nope, no scarred hand. ;) Unless it's in the HoMe or another book somewhere, but I don't recall that it is (and it didn't use the word "scar" if it is!) I think it's reasonable to put two and two together here: Maglor endured the same pain upon touching the Silmaril that Morgoth had and Morgoth was permanently scarred by the Silmaril ... it makes sense that Maglor might be the same. So it seems that Maglor's hand will live next to Nerdanel's red hair as something that we all swear is canon but really is not. ;) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 649 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38528 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 01:19:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 01:19:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc11.comcast.net) (206.18.177.51) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 01:19:33 -0000 Received: from amailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.225.101]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070315005527b1100a4fvje>; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:55:27 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter01.comcast.net; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:55:25 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:55:25 +0000 Message-Id: <031520070055.2785.45F8997C000AB02100000AE122120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=J3y9bfvYWnossYSNNoGsayY0NmM72fcf3zekYRhN7Wrgl6MvG4jW X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Calenlass Greenleaf > I consider myself a Legolas fan (though Finrod has already long stolen the > position of "favorite elf")...and as far as I can see, the elf usually suffers > anything a writer can imagine. I'm with you on Finrod. *nods at pen name* ;) And I'm also a sucker for long-suffering Elves: My imaginary boyfriend ... erm, I mean, favorite Elf is Maedhros. So one gets thrown in a dungeon and eaten by werewolves and the other gets hung off a cliff and ends up committing suicide. Way to go, Dawn! ;) In my defense, I also really like Finarfin ... ~Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 650 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94404 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 01:24:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 01:24:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.115) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 01:24:27 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 01:24:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 01:24:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 01:24:20 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 01:24:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031520070055.2785.45F8997C000AB02100000AE122120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "eldariel_perdhel" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=VR3OcU6hUnMM752sDAueeNhJAL7sd7-9ugmmvC5MuiLs487dEbbGMdaljQ X-Yahoo-Profile: eldariel_perdhel I like seeing my favorite elves in pain...poor Finrod. My weakness is angst= , torture, and hut/comfort scenes. I currently am torturing a poor Legolas.= ..I mean, in a fic. *snicker* I'm beginning to find myself attracted to Mae= dhros and Maglor. ;-) Something about those two--I don't know what. ~Calen= lass Greenleaf --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagu= nd@... wrote: > > From: Calenlass Greenleaf > > I co= nsider myself a Legolas fan (though Finrod has already long stolen the > >= position of "favorite elf")...and as far as I can see, the elf usually suf= fers > > anything a writer can imagine. > > I'm with you on Finrod. *nods= at pen name* ;) > > And I'm also a sucker for long-suffering Elves: My im= aginary boyfriend ... erm, I mean, favorite Elf is Maedhros. So one gets th= rown in a dungeon and eaten by werewolves and the other gets hung off a cli= ff and ends up committing suicide. Way to go, Dawn! ;) > > In my defense, = I also really like Finarfin ... > > ~Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund = > Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo= .bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund > > Are you a relentless First-Ager? > Check ou= t the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bm= l?user=3Dsilwritersguild. > ~oOo~ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 651 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47387 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 01:40:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 01:40:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.120) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 01:40:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 90593 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Mar 2007 01:40:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: jqSIeo4VM1l8v8aA8fbzLn4Bv6.jpvxHmz65Bb10.kdAPtjxsI7FPt2CYOzjN2bzEoyy24.NEAk9PnN8dAea0WbO4r6FdG6KzRIydjqliOpy1bvw3cz3gQ5WLaxQY.8krYqaFVidX.V.9Pn_AbR0qXhbWw-- Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:40:31 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:40:31 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <031520070051.12074.45F8988C0001008600002F2A22120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1991227057-1173922831=:84747" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <738657.84747.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=fWmVYR7kx8Ov-bmljb2lbqHul9USwxQLRKA0ew7qh5nNtqkgrQq6XE8 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1991227057-1173922831=:84747 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> And it is told of Maglor that he could not endure the pain with which the Silmaril tormented him So it doesn't even say what kind of pain. We assume it burned, but it might have been a different pain...It could be that Morgoth was burned because physical pain was a punishment he would understand easily... Maybe it was some other pain that the jewel tormented Maglor with...(Magic jewels and all) Hmmm..... Back, evil thoughts! ~T�rion --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. --0-1991227057-1173922831=:84747 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> And it is told of Maglor that he could not endure the pain with which the Silmaril tormented him

So it doesn't even say what kind of pain. We assume it burned, but it might have been a different pain...It could be that Morgoth was burned because physical pain was a punishment he would understand easily... Maybe it was some other pain that the jewel tormented Maglor with...(Magic jewels and all) Hmmm.....

Back, evil thoughts!


~T�rion

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. --0-1991227057-1173922831=:84747-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 652 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88743 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 02:15:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 02:15:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc14.comcast.net) (206.18.177.54) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 02:15:16 -0000 Received: from amailcenter06.comcast.net ([204.127.225.106]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070315020619b1400ftrohe>; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 02:06:19 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter06.comcast.net; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 02:06:18 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 02:06:18 +0000 Message-Id: <031520070206.17272.45F8AA1A000C89DB0000437822165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=HZ9lpm-RHQf081YmY1RD8YtIXeytNotBN0GPQff29cfHy3Urs5Bm X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Tarion wrote: > So it doesn't even say what kind of pain. We assume it burned, but it might > have been a different pain... One of the most interesting fanfics I remember reading--and this was when I first started reading Silmfic, so I have no idea as to the author or title!--made the pain M&M suffered from the Silmarils not a physical one but a spiritual one: The realization that many had been killed, including their own brothers, for something that wasn't worth all of the bloodshed. It was this realization of the evil of the acts they'd committed in the name of the Silmarils, the realization that came when they held the Silmarils again for the first time since Valinor, that caused Maedhros to commit suicide and Maglor to wander forevermore in lament. I found this really interesting, a creative take on the canon. I wish I could remember who wrote the story ... :^/ I also sometimes wonder if--when Melkor had Maedhros in captivity--he taunted him with the Silmarils. "I have them, you don't! Nyah nyah nyah nyah-nyah nyah!" That sort of thing. :) *beats off bunnies* Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 653 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24603 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 02:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 02:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.213) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 02:16:10 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 02:15:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 02:15:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 02:15:56 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 02:15:56 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031420071453.17132.45F80C5B000E7871000042EC2216557996BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "tuxedo_elf" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219404730; y=GzperG8gFWCructQYC0rUq8AH7UYyRyxsi51ne75kP01G7qnM6NgBQ X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf Dawn, you enjoy tormenting your Elves more than I do! LOL! Personally, I= like the long-term injuries because of the physical *and* mental issues yo= u can explore. When I wrote 'Silent Song' (In which R=C3=BAmil of L=C3=B3ri= en is left mute after getting his throat slit) I wanted to see how an immor= tal Elf might cope with something that life-changing. Interestingly, I got= far more reaction from readers after describing his injuries in some detai= l than I did for effectively ruining his life! There's something about the = violence that shocks people. It seems to me that, in some ways, death is e= asier on an Elf than an injury, since its far more likely to get fixed! = Tux --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wr= ote: > > Fascinating question, Ellie! :) > > Most of my stories are set be= fore the Darkening, yet I still manage to injure my Elves on occasion. > >= In "Another Man's Cage," Maglor falls off his horse while trying to stop w= ee!Celegorm's pony from bolting; he dislocates and lacerates his shoulder. = Wee!Celegorm collides with Maedhros's beloved (Annawende) in the forge, and= they both get burned. Rumil is described as having survived Angband, thoug= h he was deafened, muted, and mutilated in the process. In terms of broken = hearts, Maedhros has his heart trod upon on several occasions. Nerdanel and= Feanor hurt each other pretty regularly too. > > In "Salt," Caranthir get= s a leg cramp and fakes drowning ... and nearly drowns for real. Curufin ge= ts mortally wounded at Doriath. > > In "He Came Home" (unpublished story a= bout the Darkening of Valinor), the Noldor in Valinor stand on the brink of= starvation. Finarfin falls off his horse and breaks his arm. Earwen falls = down the stairs on several occasions but manages to remain uninjured. > > = In "Return to Me," Finrod's injuries at the hands/paws/jaws of the werewolf= are described in loving detail as he is healed in Mandos. > > In "The Tap= estries," Feanor plays tag with a bunch of Balrogs and loses. Maedhros gets= captured and tortured. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 654 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27701 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 02:31:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 02:31:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.121) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 02:31:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 81922 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Mar 2007 02:31:22 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: SvIJiIwVM1leinp9z6UOvP24bVmLo.eF8VsOqTdT7bbs.8APCDh9thW.13hZ1PrrNntw_U1gEH.G5QTZUqYwgDd0GQXDBLj.CcryD_QunzEfkDlUd2rSpKutLav7D0b_8dYtEKwR._S2Uvw- Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:31:22 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:31:22 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <031520070206.17272.45F8AA1A000C89DB0000437822165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1652905428-1173925882=:81898" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <447510.81898.qm@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=2ARAt-phnS1qbDFV6J6U36lIYlO2H7db8PZRI9HR4_kCyqLdezRjJYM X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1652905428-1173925882=:81898 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>It was this realization of the evil of the acts they'd committed in the name of the Silmarils, the realization that came when they held the Silmarils again for the first time since Valinor, that caused Maedhros to commit suicide and Maglor to wander forevermore in lament. That was along the same line that I was thinking. For one, I doubt that the physical pain would be enough for Maedhros to commit suicide - we've already been shown he can handle that. And similarly, I doubt that Maglor would be overly concerned about a physical injury either, all else considered. ~T�rion --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --0-1652905428-1173925882=:81898 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>It was this realization of the evil of the acts they'd committed in the name of the Silmarils, the realization that came when they held the Silmarils again for the first time since Valinor, that caused Maedhros to commit suicide and Maglor to wander forevermore in lament.

That was along the same line that I was thinking. For one, I doubt that the physical pain would be enough for Maedhros to commit suicide - we've already been shown he can handle that. And similarly, I doubt that Maglor would be overly concerned about a physical injury either, all else considered.


~T�rion

Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --0-1652905428-1173925882=:81898-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 655 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54411 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 13:20:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 13:20:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.246) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 13:20:24 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 13:20:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 13:20:12 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:20:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "eldariel_perdhel" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=MdfmoOIH8AMJpA9sqUZA1r9sZmxHVdJI6e2mQMG4WruPSHUAM_ZvP7FWGg X-Yahoo-Profile: eldariel_perdhel Dawn, where can I find your stories? They sound quite intriguing to me...*g= rin* ~Calenlass Greenleaf --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com,= "tuxedo_elf" wrote: > > > Dawn, you enjoy tormenting you= r Elves more than I do! LOL! > > Personally, I like the long-term injurie= s because of the physical > *and* mental issues you can explore. When I wro= te 'Silent Song' (In > which R=C3=BAmil of L=C3=B3rien is left mute after g= etting his throat slit) I > wanted to see how an immortal Elf might cope wi= th something that > life-changing. > > Interestingly, I got far more react= ion from readers after describing > his injuries in some detail than I did = for effectively ruining his > life! There's something about the violence th= at shocks people. > > It seems to me that, in some ways, death is easier o= n an Elf than an > injury, since its far more likely to get fixed! > > >= Tux > > > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagu= nd@ wrote: > > > > Fascinating question, Ellie! :) > > > > Most of my stor= ies are set before the Darkening, yet I still manage > to injure my Elves o= n occasion. > > > > In "Another Man's Cage," Maglor falls off his horse wh= ile trying to > stop wee!Celegorm's pony from bolting; he dislocates and la= cerates his > shoulder. Wee!Celegorm collides with Maedhros's beloved (Anna= wende) in > the forge, and they both get burned. Rumil is described as havi= ng > survived Angband, though he was deafened, muted, and mutilated in the = > process. In terms of broken hearts, Maedhros has his heart trod upon > on= several occasions. Nerdanel and Feanor hurt each other pretty > regularly = too. > > > > In "Salt," Caranthir gets a leg cramp and fakes drowning ... = and > nearly drowns for real. Curufin gets mortally wounded at Doriath. > >= > > In "He Came Home" (unpublished story about the Darkening of > Valinor= ), the Noldor in Valinor stand on the brink of starvation. > Finarfin falls= off his horse and breaks his arm. Earwen falls down the > stairs on severa= l occasions but manages to remain uninjured. > > > > In "Return to Me," Fi= nrod's injuries at the hands/paws/jaws of the > werewolf are described in l= oving detail as he is healed in Mandos. > > > > In "The Tapestries," Feano= r plays tag with a bunch of Balrogs and > loses. Maedhros gets captured and= tortured. > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 656 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56087 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 22:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 22:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.170) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 22:52:52 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n8.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 22:52:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 22:52:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 22:52:38 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:52:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031520070206.17272.45F8AA1A000C89DB0000437822165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=7X878vWVz7YGNuJ9iQlF7cng-Qa5lBcIZ5kLF09wV-8RNgqS9O_k6ga_ X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: = > One of the most interesting fanfics I remember reading--and this was wh= en I first started reading Silmfic, so I have no idea as to the author or = title!--made the pain M&M suffered from the Silmarils not a physical one b= ut a spiritual one: The realization that many had been killed, including t= heir own brothers, for something that wasn't worth all of the bloodshed. I= t was this realization of the evil of the acts they'd committed in the nam= e of the Silmarils, the realization that came when they held the Silmarils= again for the first time since Valinor, that caused Maedhros to commit su= icide and Maglor to wander forevermore in lament. Yes, I fully agree: phy= sical pain -burning or otherwise- is not an issue here but the realization= that they had wasted their lives trying to get something that was not rea= lly worth the effort and done horrible things on top. (Why does this sound= so familiar?) > I found this really interesting, a creative take on the = canon. I wish I could remember who wrote the story ... :^/ Not even a clu= e? > I also sometimes wonder if--when Melkor had Maedhros in captivity= -- he taunted him with the Silmarils. "I have them, you don't! Nyah nyah n= yah nyah-nyah nyah!" That sort of thing. :) I think he must have. Most wr= iters I've read seem intent on the physical torture but the phsychological= aspect must have been just as bad, and the Silmarils play a key role ther= e. Poor Maedhros! Really a tough elf to survive. Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 657 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38016 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 23:01:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 23:01:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 23:01:27 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.cd9.ccb87a9 (39330) for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 19:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 19:00:54 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1173999654" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5037 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction i... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ovO7R3oKjeJ9IS0Ecc9J2DnioSqyLWMFMBMqbGpJGeS0fP1L7fQZ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1173999654 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/15/2007 5:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, angelica.ramses@yahoo.com writes: phsychological aspect must have been just as bad, and the Silmarils play a key role there. Poor Maedhros! Really a tough elf to survive. I have been thinking a lot about this lately for a story I am working on now. I think the psychological torture would be the real torture and would include things around and concerning the Silmarils and a lot of lying. Morgoth already discovered that lying and rumors were rather effective in Valinor, so probably tried some variations on the theme in M-e. I think he definitely would have tried to lie to Maedhros about his brothers and Fingon. Saying that they agreed to give him up in exchange for the Silmarils. Ort that he had offered Fingon a deal for Maedhros and he turned it down, that sort of thing. Also lying about what he might have already done to his brothers or cousins to make Maedhros think it was already over, that they were dead or captured already, and he was holding on for nothing. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1173999654 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/15/2007 5:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, angelica.ramses@yahoo.= com writes:
phsychological aspect must = have been just
as bad, and the Silmarils play a key role there. Poor= Maedhros!
Really a tough elf to survive.
I have been thinking a lot about this lately for a sto= ry I am working on now. I think the psychological torture would be the rea= l torture and would include things around and concerning the Silmarils and= a lot of lying. Morgoth already discovered that lying and rumors were rat= her effective in Valinor, so probably tried some variations on the theme i= n M-e. I think he definitely would have tried to lie to Maedhros about his= brothers and Fingon. Saying that they agreed to give him up in exchange f= or the Silmarils. Ort that he had offered Fingon a deal for Maedhros and h= e turned it down, that sort of thing. Also lying about what he might have = already done to his brothers or cousins to make Maedhros think it was alre= ady over, that they were dead or captured already, and he was holding= on for nothing.
 
 


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-------------------------------1173999654-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 658 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5995 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 01:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 01:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc13.comcast.net) (204.127.225.93) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 01:38:04 -0000 Received: from amailcenter08.comcast.net ([204.127.225.108]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070316003732b1300r216ae>; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 00:37:32 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter08.comcast.net; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 00:37:30 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 00:37:30 +0000 Message-Id: <031620070037.23080.45F9E6CA000D4FE800005A2822165662760B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=szKiNXBYMzk7LXfRZVStsZ9Il8XqvL8EGMjui_rzk2VKtrT6lC6l X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, Calenlass, The complete list is here: http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/141049.html Thanks for the interest; I hope that the prove as interesting as they sound! :^D Oh, and there's a Legolas story in there too that I wrote for a friend ... though it's a bit naughty, just to warn you, if you don't go for that sort of thing. ;) I manage _not_ to torture him, though an OFC does fall out of a tree ... Have a nice weekend! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 659 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85436 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 14:11:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 14:11:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.106.38) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 14:11:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 5184 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2007 14:11:17 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: g1p5dIMVM1keEvoLJ.f5D7bcsGkgRews9mvZ3dHeB_krJeTPbJA5FgTtSZqqw7zYnOhb46sAKAWHFiCel2HEZWRfc6aNPV6TdN7R23NNxI.F4.t8yRlvTBi19gFDsnNUrIJyBmCRFAsLQQxVBrDYJAto8w-- Received: from [67.80.109.175] by web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 07:11:16 PDT Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 07:11:16 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1141750482-1174054276=:4784" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <90222.4784.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Calenlass Greenleaf Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=B3PUYNgd4wNNL1ii3ZD7vdV5ArLQn3bDJ-jpnn2YKsUgOVKfEkbpMwKaEQ X-Yahoo-Profile: eldariel_perdhel --0-1141750482-1174054276=:4784 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit thanks. :-) Now I'm off to read them! ~Calenlass --------------------------------- Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. --0-1141750482-1174054276=:4784 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit thanks. :-)
Now I'm off to read them!
~Calenlass

Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. --0-1141750482-1174054276=:4784-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 660 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31812 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 15:25:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 15:25:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc16.comcast.net) (206.18.177.56) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 15:25:07 -0000 Received: from amailcenter12.comcast.net ([204.127.225.112]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070316151252b160078s1se>; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:12:52 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter12.comcast.net; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:12:51 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:12:51 +0000 Message-Id: <031620071512.20012.45FAB3F3000A409700004E2C22165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=0f5iKatwVSyfkZjmk9YK7QIQrcS2PLRmoTjXbBasmJDsXcbj0Yrp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Tux wrote: > Dawn, you enjoy tormenting your Elves more than I do! LOL! I know. I'm a bad 'gund. *hangs head* ;) Though you should read my original fiction; it's much worse ... o.O > Personally, I like the long-term injuries because of the physical > *and* mental issues you can explore. This is another interesting angle. :) Since I can't mentally torture my Maedhros like Oshun suggested, part of the post-Angband story will deal with him learning to cope with the injuries caused by his torment, scars both physical and mental. (Now that we've established that it's okay for Elves to have scars. :^P) Writing violence, for me, is not particularly challenging. This is part of the reason why I find myself getting so frustrated with horror movies lately--despite being a fan of both horror movies and stories--because the level of violence eliminates the need for any creative storytelling or empathetic characterization. At least in my humble opinion. :) But as you said, violence is naturally shocking; it is normal to feel uncomfortable when reading a graphic depiction of an Elf having his throat cut or being being whipped by Balrogs, to name to examples. Not that this sort of thing doesn't have its place, but I agree that the issues that it causes in the long-run are far mo re intriguing, personally, for me as a reader and a writer. > It seems to me that, in some ways, death is easier on an Elf than an > injury, since its far more likely to get fixed! I'd never thought of this before, but it is a really good point! Best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 661 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6294 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 15:35:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 15:35:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc15.comcast.net) (204.127.225.95) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 15:35:44 -0000 Received: from amailcenter12.comcast.net ([204.127.225.112]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070316153343b1500c7nv7e>; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:33:43 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter12.comcast.net; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:33:43 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:33:43 +0000 Message-Id: <031620071533.25088.45FAB8D70004B9F80000620022165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=CVzc3FOZR_EfDmWVEqLjECBoetc13sEc4_0F_KEqiFJaZMhH5oaZ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Tarion wrote: > Well Dawn, there is an illustration for all these gruesome deaths... > > http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/tarion_anarore/14081.jpg Thanks, Tarion, you had me seriously pondering a Silmarillion boardgame in the car this morning, featuring something like the spinner on the cover of that book ... ~Dawn, really going to lunch now (this serves as a reminder about the perils of neglecting one's email ;) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 662 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78175 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 15:45:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 15:45:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.187) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 15:45:52 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n5.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 15:44:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 15:44:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 15:44:49 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:44:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction i... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=6p5_TzTHpgg5wOk3K1aMVKT2NIO0bC_7I0sDKiguMd1PaKOBzXrBiEWU X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >= > > > > I have been thinking a lot about this lately for a story I am = working on > now. I think the psychological torture would be the real to= rture and would > include things around and concerning the Silmarils and= a lot of lying. Morgoth > already discovered that lying and rumors were= rather effective in Valinor, so > probably tried some variations on the= theme in M-e. I think he definitely would > have tried to lie to Maedhr= os about his brothers and Fingon. Saying that they > agreed to give him = up in exchange for the Silmarils. Ort that he had offered > Fingon a dea= l for Maedhros and he turned it down, that sort of thing. Also > lying a= bout what he might have already done to his brothers or cousins to make >= Maedhros think it was already over, that they were dead or captured > = already, and he was holding on for nothing. > Great ideas! I hope we can= read your story soon. > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 663 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1603 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 15:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 15:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc12.comcast.net) (206.18.177.52) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 15:46:15 -0000 Received: from amailcenter12.comcast.net ([204.127.225.112]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070316145350b1200e104le>; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:53:50 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter12.comcast.net; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:53:48 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:53:48 +0000 Message-Id: <031620071453.18016.45FAAF7C000761E40000466022165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction i... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=tFLIVvVYVxZouH9B8oIzC4nzORKreOzjpX9Q_tq9NSV8Ws2fSdQ5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Oshun wrote: > I have been thinking a lot about this lately for a story I am working on > now. I think the psychological torture would be the real torture Isn't that always the best way to go about it? >:^) > Morgoth > already discovered that lying and rumors were rather effective in Valinor, so > probably tried some variations on the theme in M-e. I think he definitely would > have tried to lie to Maedhros about his brothers and Fingon. Saying that they > agreed to give him up in exchange for the Silmarils. Ort that he had offered > Fingon a deal for Maedhros and he turned it down, that sort of thing. Also > lying about what he might have already done to his brothers or cousins to make > Maedhros think it was already over, that they were dead or captured > already, and he was holding on for nothing. I like this idea; it makes sense. It doesn't work in my personal verse, unfortunately, because of that pesky mindspeak thing that I have going on with my Caranthir character. But to see a story done in this fashion could be really intriguing, I think. :) Which leads me to want to open another can of worms and ask others _why_ the brothers of Maedhros did not try to rescue their brother. Or maybe they did, and it simply wasn't mentioned by the historians who wrote The Silm? I've seen lots of stories take lots of different angles on this (one of our first challenges here, actually, was to write a story that answered that question); I have my own theory, but am interested in others' opinions and so will keep my two cents in my pocket for the moment. ;) Best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 664 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84115 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 15:58:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 15:58:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m17.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.207) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 15:58:57 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.d40.482b457 (39329) for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:58:22 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174060702" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5037 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction i... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=JjPu458RIMKha7XaNXW8wOM312uyM6AtJ0zdVFDp9xS6QchGZ3B4 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174060702 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/16/2007 10:46:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: I have my own theory, but am interested in others' opinions and so will keep my two cents in my pocket for the moment. ;) Funny you should ask just now--I also have a theory and am in the process of writing it up in the chapter I am working on right now. Don't know if I am quite ready to spill all right here and now today, but it should be done in a couple of the days. I'll leave it for today I think and listen to what others have to say. One thing that I will let go is that the brothers did consider rescue, but decided they could not, and Fingon agreed with them totally when he heard their theory on it, but had his own idea of how he could go about it and decided to do it without consulation or any help, which according to his logic might have screwed the whole thing up. (I still hold the position, however, that Fingon got lucky--his method could have gone terribly wrong.) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174060702 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/16/2007 10:46:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.= net writes:
I have my own theory, but a= m interested in others' opinions and so will keep my two cents in my poc= ket for the moment. ;)
Funny= you should ask just now--I also have a theory and am in the process of wr= iting it up in the chapter I am working on right now. Don't know if I am q= uite ready to spill all right here and now today, but it should be done in = a couple of the days. I'll leave it for today I think and listen to what o= thers have to say. One thing that I will let go is that the= brothers did consider rescue, but decided they could not, and F= ingon agreed with them totally when he heard their theory on it, but had h= is own idea of how he could go about it and decided to do it without = consulation or any help, which according to his logic might have screwed t= he whole thing up. (I still hold the position, however, that Fingon got lu= cky--his method could have gone terribly wrong.)


=
=
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find= out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174060702-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 665 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95784 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 16:19:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 16:19:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc13.comcast.net) (206.18.177.53) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 16:19:01 -0000 Received: from amailcenter12.comcast.net ([204.127.225.112]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070316153009b1300qodlne>; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:30:09 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter12.comcast.net; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:30:08 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:30:08 +0000 Message-Id: <031620071530.14122.45FAB800000D8AC10000372A22165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=ONIGNYy42JqHprpvy4czjkBfZ-5OR6aX1WO2Bg6-n8NbGyAyNeaG X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Calenlass Greenleaf wrote: > I'm beginning to find myself attracted to Maedhros and Maglor. ;-) > Something about those two--I don't know what. Oh, I understand. Believe me. ;) Maedhros has been my favorite character since first reading The Silm. Actually, he was one of the only characters I actually remembered upon finishing The Silm for the first time. The other was Felagund ... though only because he got the awesome title of being "Lord of Caves." Hence the pen name. ;) Maedhros and Maglor--actually all of the Feanorians--intrigue me because I can't help but to want to figure out how Elves born in the Blessed Realm ever came to commit such dark deeds. But Maedhros and Maglor are especially intriguing in this sense: The 3Cs are portrayed as being somewhat bad right from the start (though I have qualms with that too ... but I will resist that tangent ;) and the twins strike me as being somewhat apathetic or perhaps sheltered. Maedhros and Maglor sit along the front lines, the first line of defense against Morgoth, performing some of the most heroic acts of the First Age ... and then they commit some of the vilest deeds as well. They're just fascinating characters. And Maedhros is hott too and Maglor ain't too bad himself. ;) (Oh, how quickly Dawn can devolve a serious conversation ...) Also, we see more of those two across the whole story than almost anyone else. They even get a complete conversation together, at the end! This makes them apt to be noticed, I think, and considered more than some of the other characters who are probably just as fascinating but don't get much beyond a walk-on role (Ecthelion and Glorfindel, for example). Having _well_ exceeded my two cents for the day on this list, I will wish everyone a pleasant weekend and scurry off to lunch! :) Dawn the Chatty -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "eldariel_perdhel" > I like seeing my favorite elves in pain...poor Finrod. My weakness is > angst, torture, and hut/comfort scenes. I currently am torturing a > poor Legolas...I mean, in a fic. *snicker* > > ~Calenlass Greenleaf > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > > > > From: Calenlass Greenleaf > > > I consider myself a Legolas fan (though Finrod has already long > stolen the > > > position of "favorite elf")...and as far as I can see, the elf > usually suffers > > > anything a writer can imagine. > > > > I'm with you on Finrod. *nods at pen name* ;) > > > > And I'm also a sucker for long-suffering Elves: My imaginary > boyfriend ... erm, I mean, favorite Elf is Maedhros. So one gets > thrown in a dungeon and eaten by werewolves and the other gets hung > off a cliff and ends up committing suicide. Way to go, Dawn! ;) > > > > In my defense, I also really like Finarfin ... > > > > ~Dawn > > > > -- > > ~oOo~ > > Dawn Felagund > > Read my stories or visit me online at > http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund > > > > Are you a relentless First-Ager? > > Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at > http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. > > ~oOo~ > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 666 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83089 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 16:26:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 16:26:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc16.comcast.net) (204.127.225.96) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 16:26:12 -0000 Received: from amailcenter12.comcast.net ([204.127.225.112]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070316154638b16007bucce>; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:46:38 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter12.comcast.net; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:46:37 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:46:37 +0000 Message-Id: <031620071546.4978.45FABBDD000377AE0000137222165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: G-Mail Problems? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=hXcnjbgbBP5hsWC9e1b0vwEjRCdvIjBqIShAoBoPHdiieJA8nmAr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, Twice now, I have gotten delivery failures from most (possibly all?) of the users on our list who use G-Mail. The failure notice claimed that they are "over quota." Has anyone else gotten a similar message when trying to send to G-Mail users (or maybe know of any problems the system is experiencing)? Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 667 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62643 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 17:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 17:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.122) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 17:10:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 2578 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2007 17:10:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 8XxoTgkVM1mS8Xq.nnL46OQZhjwCWARRaBH59Hh6KyOmi8l8UqWyS37VCO0agAcinDlZa7OA52uxHLwGTclRStHJHSfFKyKLBO0pR.Mq4f7FSqeeBsPrCDvGohFtiJqK2IObf5CcJXJtOdDH7JcC3PXI Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:10:28 PDT Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:10:28 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <031620071533.25088.45FAB8D70004B9F80000620022165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-132005355-1174065028=:1240" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <417082.1240.qm@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=a9WDTugHwZz7ekaPJ_hnEYUEcsUJANi6fOhQkD2Y3z8Nulw_0YO4lLE X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-132005355-1174065028=:1240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *grin* Or maybe something like a Silmarillion version of Twister?? *innocent look* Tarion DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: Thanks, Tarion, you had me seriously pondering a Silmarillion boardgame in the car this morning, featuring something like the spinner on the cover of that book ... ~T�rion --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. --0-132005355-1174065028=:1240 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *grin* Or maybe something like a Silmarillion version of Twister?? *innocent look*

Tarion

DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote:
Thanks, Tarion, you had me seriously pondering a Silmarillion boardgame in the car this morning, featuring something like the spinner on the cover of that book ...



~T�rion

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. --0-132005355-1174065028=:1240-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 668 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83848 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 17:21:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 17:21:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.120) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 17:21:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 32929 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2007 17:21:10 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: OI5wskMVM1npW8DQZrCiug1l7kQ.KkmBsgQETWK7KwAcGwjE1A98KF66BF9A1ZrpOgPYIBLKQ7gaPOGItvS1WbnsjeLuRO_kZSCXIMEhFcev88M9wUu7zrX9ifloiJkq Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:21:09 PDT Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:21:09 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <031620071512.20012.45FAB3F3000A409700004E2C22165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-749200080-1174065669=:32131" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <21732.32131.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=EBnq4IBeD8rlrP4AcAHRX-4tdG4q9VpJtJw2jCJ6KNVhxQC_Z1yq0nY X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-749200080-1174065669=:32131 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This leads me to a new question: Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine). Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting) at least two of the above. ;-) Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. --0-749200080-1174065669=:32131 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This leads me to a new question:

Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine).

Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting) at least two of the above. ;-)

Tarion


~T�rion

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. --0-749200080-1174065669=:32131-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 669 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22348 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 17:34:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 17:34:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.116) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 17:34:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 66212 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2007 17:34:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 3t48CZoVM1ns7DfbDdbLz9NBQfmsiFfiYMSQa05xzVh6SjbrGh6B_SwGfv6.kBUbZBIjrR3vMlIyaS5VFcRiyI2Z5HCQ9ZxWaUI6Zxb3YKFP07vYsK0e2w0Pi2ZNmZ1xg48Cqy9LAO7JeGmlJOhoNl0TlA-- Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:34:27 PDT Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:34:27 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <031620071453.18016.45FAAF7C000761E40000466022165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-671256586-1174066467=:65520" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <978814.65520.qm@web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] SSP (was: Elven scarring) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=upNFVLaMtGMe1HfLMVDZw0naTsJ-_pzJSn1UVBN33Oa2oe9bTIOcHtA X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-671256586-1174066467=:65520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I've seen lots of stories take lots of different angles on this (one of our first challenges here, actually, was to write a story that answered that question); I have my own theory, but am interested in others' opinions and so will keep my two cents in my pocket for the moment. ;) Weeellll............. I haven't decided on a concrete theory concerning this question, and I haven't really thought about it recently. But I did happen to answer this challenge (sadly, the only one I've done, I think). So I will pimp my ficlet (I think this might be my first SSP, too). :-) The original, unedited version is here (like someone suggested for the picture, if the link doesn't work, try copying & pasting, and removing any spaces that got inserted) The slightly edited version is here Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. --0-671256586-1174066467=:65520 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I've seen lots of stories take lots of different angles on this (one of our first challenges here, actually, was to write a story that answered that question); I have my own theory, but am interested in others' opinions and so will keep my two cents in my pocket for the moment. ;)

Weeellll............. I haven't decided on a concrete theory concerning this question, and I haven't really thought about it recently. But I did happen to answer this challenge (sadly, the only one I've done, I think). So I will pimp my ficlet (I think this might be my first SSP, too). :-)

The original, unedited version is here

(like someone suggested for the picture, if the link doesn't work, try copying & pasting, and removing any spaces that got inserted)

The slightly edited version is here




Tarion


~T�rion

No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. --0-671256586-1174066467=:65520-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 670 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92777 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 18:42:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 18:42:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.40) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 18:42:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 58152 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2007 18:40:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20070316184025.58150.qmail@web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: LhE8YlMVM1mK89_k8CMcgHIlQacylPkEBJ_zZ9pRugGWUUjP0yESXhBbaycwx_n1Gw-- Received: from [206.251.8.147] by web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:40:25 GMT Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:40:25 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <21732.32131.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1599839449-1174070425=:56729" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=meMLyOGjyHA-ULx_0TT3CVu8eDzjwzMcImRS9YPMbczTGDIwKl76 --0-1599839449-1174070425=:56729 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I haven't -- the only Maedhros fic I've written was more of really short a Maedhros-in-Mandos fic. But then, I haven't really started writing much Silm fic. I love reading them, but am just starting to write them. Cel Helyanwe Tarion Anarore wrote: This leads me to a new question: Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine). Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting) at least two of the above. ;-) Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A. --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-1599839449-1174070425=:56729 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I haven't -- the only Maedhros fic I've written was more of really short a Maedhros-in-Mandos fic.  But then, I haven't really started writing much Silm fic.  I love reading them, but am just starting to write them.

Cel Helyanwe

Tarion Anarore wrote:
This leads me to a new question:

Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine).

Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting) at least two of the above. ;-)

Tarion


~T�rion
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-1599839449-1174070425=:56729-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 671 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80110 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 18:47:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 18:47:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 18:47:02 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.d23.2274e6e (39329) for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:45:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:45:53 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174070753" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5037 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=J7d_7pfuMbUptcT3aJsWHdIpZv1TBLZj6z3Yqi2yvP-1Toowid6t X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174070753 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/16/2007 1:43:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk writes: Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting) at least two of the above. ;-) Apparently this is so--I just started writing Silmarillion fics and I couldn't wait long. Since my second real story deals with the theme and my first real story was basically written as a prequel. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174070753 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/16/2007 1:43:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.= uk writes:
Just curious, since this gro= up of fics seems to be a rite of passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors= ! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting) at least two of the above.= ;-)
Apparently this is so--= I just started writing Silmarillion fics and I couldn't wait long. Since m= y second real story deals with the theme and my first real story was basic= ally written as a prequel.



AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free = from AOL at A= OL.com.
-------------------------------1174070753-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 672 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4316 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 20:31:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 20:31:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53004.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.34) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 20:31:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 44493 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2007 20:31:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20070316203114.44491.qmail@web53004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: VyZPHRsVM1kcWikanhztSXT89h._cTJrqctiIbcXB5e2L48FJyqj.blvaMO6nR7BglDzaN1mpt8fo7ies1L45ebuh.s2fHViLJpO3H6QtIazCplerpXkvlOUMwt8wsIbjyMRSu8fb5bJ4mmC3XQ6OFxy Received: from [206.251.8.147] by web53004.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 20:31:14 GMT Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 20:31:14 +0000 (GMT) To: haldirlovers@yahoogroups.com, henneth_annun@yahoogroups.com, silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com, royal_mirkwood_home@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-297018705-1174077074=:42779" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Semi-OT: Sindarin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=kQv4DsnmaVVIuNla4-J79DTtSFt58-xB7OTYYXBkWWxxVtwpdZKn --0-297018705-1174077074=:42779 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone know of any good resources I could use to refresh my Sindarin and pick up some new vocabulary? I really enjoy the language and would like to be able to do more with it than I currently can. Cel Helyanwe --------------------------------- Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. --0-297018705-1174077074=:42779 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone know of any good resources I could use to refresh my Sindarin and pick up some new vocabulary?  I really enjoy the language and would like to be able to do more with it than I currently can.

Cel Helyanwe

Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. --0-297018705-1174077074=:42779-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 673 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61164 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 22:15:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 22:15:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web58306.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.159) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 22:15:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 94352 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2007 22:15:52 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: fYV6_yQVM1m6Ooc.jskNas7oZQNVGGgMoTCmcwlcX6EMYBIpHf4N_zNZ4S6PlBrEsfkhNXeIV5_B08rIt_k2X74iHWib5OmSuo3vrFfCku_2AqB2tWLKld1FyVi8ZBNCwjmfXmyyFh6FchQ- Received: from [71.235.106.34] by web58306.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:15:52 PDT Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:15:52 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <21732.32131.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-608662465-1174083352=:94300" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <171730.94300.qm@web58306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Niki S." Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=5ZNZkXHBtR6dqlZBfqaxEkOn47OBoAp6JI9wgQRwmeISe5_GXg X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes --0-608662465-1174083352=:94300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, as I haven't written any fanfiction at all yet, I have to say I haven't written a Maedhros-having-anything-to-do-with-Angband fic. ;) I don't think I would, either... I'm guessing I'd be more likely to write a "Maedhros getting frustrated over a more everyday problem" or "Maedhros getting a small scar from doing something embarrassingly stupid as an adolescent and perhaps making the even dumber mistake of not telling his parents right away" fic or something. :) Now I wonder if there was a huge shift in attitude between Aman and Middle-earth towards seeing scars on an Elf. Like, if a scar in Aman would be seen as evidence of foolishness or wrecklessness (or being older than those who were born there), and a scar in Middle-earth would be, "Oh, you were in battle?" or something... (assuming scars weren't next to absolutely impossible for an Elf to get, of course...) --Pulsarkat Tarion Anarore wrote: This leads me to a new question: Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine). Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting) at least two of the above. ;-) Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A. --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. --0-608662465-1174083352=:94300 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, as I haven't written any fanfiction at all yet, I have to say I haven't written a Maedhros-having-anything-to-do-with-Angband fic. ;) I don't think I would, either... I'm guessing I'd be more likely to write a "Maedhros getting frustrated over a more everyday problem" or "Maedhros getting a small scar from doing something embarrassingly stupid as an adolescent and perhaps making the even dumber mistake of not telling his parents right away" fic or something. :)

Now I wonder if there was a huge shift in attitude between Aman and Middle-earth towards seeing scars on an Elf. Like, if a scar in Aman would be seen as evidence of foolishness or wrecklessness (or being older than those who were born there), and a scar in Middle-earth would be, "Oh, you were in battle?" or something... (assuming scars weren't next to absolutely impossible for an Elf to get, of course...)

--Pulsarkat

Tarion Anarore wrote:
This leads me to a new question:

Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine).

Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting) at least two of the above. ;-)

Tarion


~T�rion
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.

TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. --0-608662465-1174083352=:94300-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 674 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47594 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 23:11:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 23:11:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53001.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.31) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 23:11:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 18063 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2007 23:11:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20070316231121.18061.qmail@web53001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: XHtwi0sVM1mBdRaL3Gv7G1or0yQSFU9SJxSTC1o5IKOrK9rdawHo3P5TQu_LpXvUR56PCvUJAZG_uMYwqwRkC3YgjSU0D87489HO1F6HcpDepkI4XXDYoY0c39SPafjFfnFIWHklDG9Gg8c- Received: from [206.251.8.147] by web53001.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:11:21 GMT Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:11:21 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <171730.94300.qm@web58306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1012333701-1174086681=:17948" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=eDYguqk8sl2IAa4URZ0CQOdTjGuOxJZvF6nuu5QZyu1tFTgn0vOB --0-1012333701-1174086681=:17948 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Your idea about scars... Now that *is* interesting. And I would imagine that elves could get scars, but that most, if not all of them, would eventually fade and would fade quicker than human scars. But I would suspect that elves in Middle-Earth probably *would* view scars differently than elves in Aman. After all, they wouldn't have been near as likely to injure themselves that badly there. Unless a young elf was just learning smithing and made a mistake... Cel Helyanwe "Niki S." wrote: Well, as I haven't written any fanfiction at all yet, I have to say I haven't written a Maedhros-having-anything-to-do-with-Angband fic. ;) I don't think I would, either... I'm guessing I'd be more likely to write a "Maedhros getting frustrated over a more everyday problem" or "Maedhros getting a small scar from doing something embarrassingly stupid as an adolescent and perhaps making the even dumber mistake of not telling his parents right away" fic or something. :) Now I wonder if there was a huge shift in attitude between Aman and Middle-earth towards seeing scars on an Elf. Like, if a scar in Aman would be seen as evidence of foolishness or wrecklessness (or being older than those who were born there), and a scar in Middle-earth would be, "Oh, you were in battle?" or something... (assuming scars weren't next to absolutely impossible for an Elf to get, of course...) --Pulsarkat Tarion Anarore wrote: This leads me to a new question: Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine). Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting) at least two of the above. ;-) Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A. --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. --------------------------------- What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. --0-1012333701-1174086681=:17948 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Your idea about scars...  Now that *is* interesting.  And I would imagine that elves could get scars, but that most, if not all of them, would eventually fade and would fade quicker than human scars.  But I would suspect that elves in Middle-Earth probably *would* view scars differently than elves in Aman.  After all, they wouldn't have been near as likely to injure themselves that badly there.  Unless a young elf was just learning smithing and made a mistake...

Cel Helyanwe

"Niki S." wrote:
Well, as I haven't written any fanfiction at all yet, I have to say I haven't written a Maedhros-having-anything-to-do-with-Angband fic. ;) I don't think I would, either... I'm guessing I'd be more likely to write a "Maedhros getting frustrated over a more everyday problem" or "Maedhros getting a small scar from doing something embarrassingly stupid as an adolescent and perhaps making the even dumber mistake of not telling his parents right away" fic or something. :)

Now I wonder if there was a huge shift in attitude between Aman and Middle-earth towards seeing scars on an Elf. Like, if a scar in Aman would be seen as evidence of foolishness or wrecklessness (or being older than those who were born there), and a scar in Middle-earth would be, "Oh, you were in battle?" or something... (assuming scars weren't next to absolutely impossible for an Elf to get, of course...)

--Pulsarkat

Tarion Anarore yahoo.com> wrote:
This leads me to a new question:

Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine).

Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting) at least two of the above. ;-)

Tarion


~T�rion
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.

TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. --0-1012333701-1174086681=:17948-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 675 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1946 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 23:45:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 23:45:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 23:45:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 23:45:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 23:45:13 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:45:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031620071546.4978.45FABBDD000377AE0000137222165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: G-Mail Problems? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=O1GYU79CoxANhSHyspxYg3_GohG1gwy5FAklcdGNPE3MmZnXNP3Ljgg X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Hi, all, > Twice now, I have gotten delivery failures from most (possibly= all?) > of the users on our list who use G-Mail. The failure notice claim= ed > that they are "over quota." Has anyone else gotten a similar message = > when trying to send to G-Mail users (or maybe know of any problems the >= system is experiencing)? I do use gmail, but I am a no-mail member here..= . Did I bounce back? I have plenty of space left at gmail. Weird. Rhapsod= y From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 676 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65746 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 23:49:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 23:49:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.187) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 23:49:52 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n5.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 23:49:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 23:49:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 23:49:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:49:51 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031420071539.2838.45F817450003FCC800000B162216557996BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=mYvaaP6bW1oaMI0UP7qKRUChD7mnGatsFcRl9RmgkttYsm4Drnhwmts X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Tarion wrote: > > I can't remember any specific passages about elves and = scarring, but maybe > > someone else can point out one (if there is one. A= nd if it's in HoME, that's why > > I haven't read it. ;-) ) > > Glad to = oblige! :) > > I did a search of The Silmarillion, LotR, The Hobbit, Tolki= en's > Letters, and the HoMe for the word "scar." (Oh, how digital books = > make research so much easier! :^D) In all of these, I found four > insta= nces where physical scars on characters were mentioned. The > first was a = brown scar on the forehead of Merry in LotR. The second > was the scar lef= t on the face of Morgoth by Thorondor following > Fingolfin's death; this = evolves through the HoMe and into The > Silmarillion. Can I suggest othe= r search entries than scars? Tolkien used quite a lot of different words to= say the wame: wither, marred, burnt are words that come to mind, I had my = nose stuck in BOTL lately and those words were used quite often... I know,= maybe semantics, but still it would give you a better oversight. Rhapsody= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 677 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1477 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 00:00:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 00:00:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.56) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 00:00:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:00:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:00:42 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:00:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=W5xbbrugbmimTDmfQKlO9Bz6CZnDnx3BmcD5sm5W-XQTKeYZ1JcrLV8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "angelica.ramses" wrote: > > So actually there's no textual reference to Maglor= 's scarred hand > after the Silmaril incident? It is so recurrent in stori= es that I > somehow expected to find it on the list. Another instance of t= he power > of fanon. No it's quite everywhere in the books, this is most = definitely not fanon. The thing is, where did I read it.... darn. It was v= ery very recently *looks around* I will get back on this. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 678 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9119 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 00:05:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 00:05:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.220) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 00:05:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:05:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:05:55 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:05:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031420071453.17132.45F80C5B000E7871000042EC2216557996BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=VPG0eVb_9ZNbihLOi1oF_CvHbnxQ6gYiMuMcCOib_C5eqWVBHMJxM2c X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Fascinating question, Ellie! :) > Feanor gets wrapped in whips = of flame by Balrogs and is mortally > wounded. Oh whips! > Maedhros is c= aptured by Morgoth, hung by his wrist; his wrist is >amputated by Fingon; = he is wounded at the Battle of Unnumbered Tears; > he kills himself by divi= ng into a fiery chasm. All seven are wounded at the Nirnaeth. > In one o= f the HoMe, Celegorm is pierced by one thousand arrows. Regardless, he was = slain at Doriath. Hmmm, what a hero, last elf standing while he goes toe t= o toe with Dior. *nods* > Ecthelion drowns. Poor guy! He did slay the so= n of Melkor though while he was at it. My hero! > Eol, Maeglin, Glorfinde= l, and Saeros all take tumbles from high > places thanks to execution, tre= achery, heroism, and > tomfoolery-by-hapless-mortal, respectively. They s= hould stop doing that. My flash fic Shattered Twilight decribes the tumble = of Maeglin. Aredhel dies of poison... Idril's mom drowns (Elenwe, wasn't i= t?), not sure what happened to Idril though. Hmmm Rhapsody (is busy taming= rabid bunnies now) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 679 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92878 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 00:12:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 00:12:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.121) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 00:12:13 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:12:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:12:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:12:13 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:12:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031620071453.18016.45FAAF7C000761E40000466022165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction i... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=k5TNJ4p7Oy1Qs3GQLmvri71Lng0EOCmRxMPj3HbZs3qhgWHvqLsYUOo X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: = > Which leads me to want to open another can of worms and ask others > _wh= y_ the brothers of Maedhros did not try to rescue their brother. > Or mayb= e they did, and it simply wasn't mentioned by the historians > who wrote T= he Silm? I've seen lots of stories take lots of different > angles on this= (one of our first challenges here, actually, was to > write a story that = answered that question); I have my own theory, > but am interested in othe= rs' opinions and so will keep my two cents > in my pocket for the moment.= ;) Oh I have a drabble regarding that (named True Diplomacy drabbled from= celegorm's perspective) and a vignette should be finished next week about = the why. The dialogue is just magnificent, but I have been doing a chuckloa= d of betaing this week, let alone finising Requiem (yeah finally!): but nex= t week. Yay! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 680 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81639 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 00:15:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 00:15:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.163) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 00:15:19 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n6.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:15:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:15:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:15:19 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:15:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <21732.32131.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=xf_sHw0auOH7cfdaGKxISKcN0eZbKpgNopBYb6YEr4slFIuYOPeel2s X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore wrote: > > This leads me to a new question: > > Is there anyone= here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband > fic, Maedhros-hanging-= around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros > post-rescue fic? It doesn't= have to be published anywhere. It can be > rotting away on your hard drive= or in a notebook somewhere (like > mine). Hehehehe: no. I don't have a = Maedhros muse at all, I wrote him maybe four times, but not about that, wel= l define post-rescue. Hmmm. I kinda have my hands full with Celegorm and Ma= glor, so I gladly leave all those angsty driven Maedhros in pain stories to= others. > Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of p= assage > for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well,= > starting) at least two of the above. ;-) Nah. Not really. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 681 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72091 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 00:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 00:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 00:19:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:19:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 00:19:18 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:19:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20070316203114.44491.qmail@web53004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Semi-OT: Sindarin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=yR9Z9AeGxjNqqI6KcwKpAjC8rD-6fckXWgcXb22c2GPVdGHYDWaA9Uo X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: > > Does anyone know of any good resources I could use t= o refresh my Sindarin and pick up some new vocabulary? I really enjoy the = language and would like to be able to do more with it than I currently can.= It would be helpful if you said which sources you do use already. *dives= into her bookmarks* Ardalambion http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ * Summari= es of Sindarin, Quenya, Ad=FBnaic, Westron, Telerin, Doriathrin, Mannish To= ngues, Nandorin, Old Sindarin, Ilkorin, Avarin, Khusdul, Entish, Black Spee= ch, Valarin, Primitive Elvish, and Tolkien's other languages that don't hav= e anything to do with E=E4. * Many useful articles about Sindarin and Queny= a. Parma Tyelpelassiva-The Book of Silver Leaves http://www.phy.duke.edu/~= trenk/elvish/ * A Sindarin Textbook * A Quenya Textbook * Many useful artic= les about reconstructing words * Some poetry in Sindarin and Quenya. Fello= wship of the Wordsmiths http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/language.htm * A list = of articles and resources. Sindan=F3ri=EB http://sindanoorie.atspace.com/ = * Linguistic essays about Quenya and Telerin. Mellonath Daeron http://www.= forodrim.org/daeron/md_home.html * Many specialized wordlists * A phraseboo= k * Various Sindarin and Quenya compositions, as well as Tengwar calligraph= y. I hope this helps Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 682 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87714 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 00:41:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 00:41:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53007.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.37) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 00:41:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 96793 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2007 00:41:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20070317004115.96791.qmail@web53007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: nWFRmIwVM1k9j0x4QjgWTtlgy5b9JvYl9x59_I_F1DXHQIZ4Tj8hWCwah1OryY0FdsguWyiPWUoDrne6ijt862bNIyK1mXL8TW8eFSaP5fLX3eEqMYQCQGVrHe8N1x.7 Received: from [206.251.8.147] by web53007.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:41:15 GMT Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:41:15 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1894161160-1174092075=:96478" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Semi-OT: Sindarin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=tXTC9qqvT0aPbugbv2uCCiqdCi7ANhw6moNQ_HmtBITSZsCtcuLj --0-1894161160-1174092075=:96478 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you! :-) Cel Helyanwe rhapsody_the_bard wrote: --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: > > Does anyone know of any good resources I could use to refresh my Sindarin and pick up some new vocabulary? I really enjoy the language and would like to be able to do more with it than I currently can. It would be helpful if you said which sources you do use already. *dives into her bookmarks* Ardalambion http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ * Summaries of Sindarin, Quenya, Ad�naic, Westron, Telerin, Doriathrin, Mannish Tongues, Nandorin, Old Sindarin, Ilkorin, Avarin, Khusdul, Entish, Black Speech, Valarin, Primitive Elvish, and Tolkien's other languages that don't have anything to do with E�. * Many useful articles about Sindarin and Quenya. Parma Tyelpelassiva-The Book of Silver Leaves http://www.phy.duke.edu/~trenk/elvish/ * A Sindarin Textbook * A Quenya Textbook * Many useful articles about reconstructing words * Some poetry in Sindarin and Quenya. Fellowship of the Wordsmiths http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/language.htm * A list of articles and resources. Sindan�ri� http://sindanoorie.atspace.com/ * Linguistic essays about Quenya and Telerin. Mellonath Daeron http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/md_home.html * Many specialized wordlists * A phrasebook * Various Sindarin and Quenya compositions, as well as Tengwar calligraphy. I hope this helps Rhapsody --------------------------------- What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. --0-1894161160-1174092075=:96478 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you! :-)

Cel Helyanwe

rhapsody_the_bard wrote:
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Celebrian Helyanwe
...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of any good resources I could use to refresh my
Sindarin and pick up some new vocabulary? I really enjoy the language
and would like to be able to do more with it than I currently can.

It would be helpful if you said which sources you do use already.

*dives into her bookmarks*

Ardalambion
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/
* Summaries of Sindarin, Quenya, Ad�naic, Westron, Telerin,
Doriathrin, Mannish Tongues, Nandorin, Old Sindarin, Ilkorin, Avarin,
Khusdul, Entish, Black Speech, Valarin, Primitive Elvish, and
Tolkien's other languages that don't have anything to do with E�.
* Many useful articles about Sindarin and Quenya.

Parma Tyelpelassiva-The Book of Silver Leaves
http://www.phy.duke.edu/~trenk/elvish/
* A Sindarin Textbook
* A Quenya Textbook
* Many useful articles about reconstructing words
* Some poetry in Sindarin and Quenya.

Fellowship of the Wordsmiths
http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/language.htm
* A list of articles and resources.

Sindan�ri�
http://sindanoorie.atspace.com/
* Linguistic essays about Quenya and Telerin.

Mellonath Daeron
http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/md_home.html
* Many specialized wordlists
* A phrasebook
* Various Sindarin and Quenya compositions, as well as Tengwar
calligraphy.

I hope this helps
Rhapsody


What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. --0-1894161160-1174092075=:96478-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 683 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59968 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 02:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 02:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.115) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 02:40:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 51404 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2007 00:54:15 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: HcWLGdcVM1kKXkEC369IapuJ.XaMsTG1_i2ZcEXbhtRw3Q7avxBrE_KA9GZijsRdQFiKeBueyfLmPfny9ULNfAZib_u_I4D6DrFljNRO4K8gaGxMW7q.n7.1xx6j6FWj40tODwi8B9hXWI8FFGZE7nfd Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:54:14 PDT Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:54:14 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <171730.94300.qm@web58306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-364497301-1174092854=:50814" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <919549.50814.qm@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=0S0RUyiAIzwVyJfkrFmdD11BMesQQSwoNgw6AVFbWHkR82SiE4LrLg8 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-364497301-1174092854=:50814 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>"Maedhros getting a small scar from doing something embarrassingly stupid as an adolescent and perhaps making the even dumber mistake of not telling his parents right away" Hahaha, now that sounds like a fun story!! Be sure to SSP when you write it. ;-D ~T�rion --------------------------------- Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. --0-364497301-1174092854=:50814 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>"Maedhros getting a small scar from doing something embarrassingly stupid as an adolescent and perhaps making the even dumber mistake of not telling his parents right away"

Hahaha, now that sounds like a fun story!! Be sure to SSP when you write it. ;-D


~T�rion

Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. --0-364497301-1174092854=:50814-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 684 Return-Path: X-Sender: deand12000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40605 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 12:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 12:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web56014.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (216.252.110.193) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 12:25:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 69150 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2007 12:24:26 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: OSP6oskVM1lUz3tdQdrqcMYGZ1.glZnD2Ul_oZFmjIkVB2cyFXGGPlWR00BhF1vakTKROfq5.EXN8cQMoviJpwo0PauPu6Bhy0lO4zewpsM1xdH69ISI3Q-- Received: from [165.83.104.199] by web56014.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 17 Mar 2007 05:24:26 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/471 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.4 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 05:24:25 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1767553324-1174134266=:68914" Message-ID: <144148.68914.qm@web56014.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Dean Rowley Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=114134930; y=ZZx0OwI61qd9q3UoWk6s3GU8p9dTUezUf0wQs4xgF2XylhFVww X-Yahoo-Profile: deand12000 --0-1767553324-1174134266=:68914 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable None of the below, but Maedhros-the-biography is next after the latest nove= l (in progress). Dean Maia of Este ----- Original Message ---- From: Tar= ion Anarore To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogr= oups.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:21:09 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWri= tersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros This le= ads me to a new question: Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Ma= edhros-in- Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging- around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, = or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It c= an be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine= ). Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage f= or Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting)= at least two of the above. ;-) Tarion ~T=E1rion Food fight? Enjoy som= e healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A. _______________= _____________________________________________________________________ Now t= hat's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations= on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generi= c-14795097 --0-1767553324-1174134266=:68914 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
None of the below, but Maedhros-the-biography is = next after the latest novel (in progress).
 
Dean Maia of Este

----- Original Message --= --
From: Tarion Anarore
To: Silmaril= lionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:21:09 P= M
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwi= se being mean to Maedhros

This leads me to = a new question:

Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhr= os-in- Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging- around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or M= aedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can b= e rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine). <= BR>
Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage= for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, startin= g) at least two of the above. ;-)

Tarion


~T=E1rion

Food= fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.

<= /P>



It's here! You= r new message!
Get new email alerts with = the free Yahoo! Toolbar. --0-1767553324-1174134266=:68914-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 685 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11888 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 13:05:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 13:05:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.113) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 13:05:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 16476 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 13:01:50 -0000 Received: from m107p014.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.181.78]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub81.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 17 Mar 2007 13:01:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <45FBE7A9.000001.03860@MARINA> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 14:05:45 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_LPT1QL80000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <144148.68914.qm@web56014.mail.re3.yahoo.com> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=0kDyYbqJmOIhaz-Du6PvqdO_kAdUhe4B0sQiv_xESmPg-3vzyQYW X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_LPT1QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I confess guilty of NOT having written any of those fics in question. I do = have a PRE Angband and Co story :D Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Dean Rowley Date: 03/17/07 13:25:31 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise b= eing mean to Maedhros =20 None of the below, but Maedhros-the-biography is next after the latest nov= el (in progress). =20 Dean Maia of Este ----- Original Message ---- From: Tarion Anarore To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:21:09 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being= mean to Maedhros This leads me to a new question:=20 Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in- Angband fic, Mae= dhros-hanging- around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic= ? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be rotting away on your = hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine).=20 Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage for S= ilmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well, starting) at = least two of the above. ;-) Tarion ~T=E1rion=20 Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.=20 It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. =20 --------------Boundary-00=_LPT1QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= /TBODY>
I confess guilty of NOT having written = any of those fics in question. I do have a PRE Angband and Co sto= ry :D
 
Marina 
 
-------Original Message------- <= DIV> 
Date: 03/17/07 13:25:31
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing= , Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros
 <= /DIV>

None of the below, but = Maedhros-the-biography is next after the latest novel (in progress).
 
Dean Maia of Este

----- Original Message ----
Fro= m: Tarion Anarore yahoo.com>
To: Silmarillion= WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:2= 1:09 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Torturing, Rescuing, &a= mp; otherwise being mean to Maedhros

This l= eads me to a new question:

Is there anyone here who has *not* writt= en a Maedhros-in- Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging- around fic, Maedhros rescu= e fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywher= e. It can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (li= ke mine).

Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite= of passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (we= ll, starting) at least two of the above. ;-)

Tarion


~T=E1= rion

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&am= p;A.



= It's here! Your new message!
Get new email a= lerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

 
3D"Add<= /HTML> --------------Boundary-00=_LPT1QL80000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 686 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64155 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 13:37:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 13:37:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.106.33) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 13:37:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 36819 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2007 13:37:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 38y5KqcVM1mv05rvx5gbzpbIYZbLUUwYWnmXRAEH8fJaQo12Jq0O9meAZx.9GT8znCsJQdlPdPae9P9DX2Z1jSuBzrZPpMw8fjey068ZusB4qmYvGvMxLLAwFiyk_WOj Received: from [67.80.109.175] by web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 17 Mar 2007 06:37:50 PDT Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 06:37:50 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-994090415-1174138670=:35040" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <120429.35040.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Calenlass Greenleaf Subject: Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=-PLUF_AViHsAubaxoqCa1oQi6v9xURPBiGR29OtB7XveQoyt9Tjdrs_SFg X-Yahoo-Profile: eldariel_perdhel --0-994090415-1174138670=:35040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have yet to write a Silm fic. *guilty look* But I will...someday. ~Calenlass P.S. I also keep getting those weir failure-mail notes. --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. --0-994090415-1174138670=:35040 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have yet to write a Silm fic. *guilty look* But I will...someday.
~Calenlass
P.S. I also keep getting those weir failure-mail notes.

Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. --0-994090415-1174138670=:35040-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 687 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86599 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 17:06:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 17:06:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.21) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 17:06:12 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 17:05:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 17:05:56 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 17:05:54 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <21732.32131.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Torturing,... Maedhros to gifted elves not coping well X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=rc6q5fY9sCBCi6tV-gbtLqAyvPMktw3bDForSCjwsZZmakl3S6s X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I confess to NOT having written one and I don't intend to either. I think I= 've written or started at least 25 to 30 stories now. There is a strong Fea= norean presence in Sil writing, but my love lies (and always has) with the = more obscure characters. I love Finarfin and his line and I like Fingolfin= , though not his sons and daughter. I love writing Indis and Anaire and Ear= wen and Ingwe. I read the occasional Feanorean fic, but I've only ever desi= red to write something about Maglor or Nerdanel, and even then, I only wrot= e about Maglor's daughter (who I invented for my story). I'm just not into = bad boys, I'm afraid, or elves with deep seeded psychological problems. I= n counter to the question about everyone writing a Maedhros fic as a "write= " of passage in Sil writing (teehee), what do you think about this: I have = recently read a lot about gifted children and their inability to interact s= ocially with their peers because their intellectual age far exceeds their e= motional age (I have a child with this problem). It has occurred to me that= Feanor, said to have been the greatest elf in mind and body, clearly suffe= red from this (in addition to having OCD). Additionally, it is not unheard = of for someone to have an incredible amount of book sense and not a lick of= common sense. I see Feanor falling into this category. However there are d= ifferent forms of giftedness and Finarfin for example has an abundance of w= isdom and strength of character. Fingolfin I see as being jealous and falli= ng somewhere in between his brothers in many things (perhaps he is more lik= e Finwe in this regard than the others). What do you think about this? E= llie Tarion Anarore wrote: > > > Is there anyone h= ere who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-aroun= d fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? > Just curious, s= ince this group of fics seems to be a rite of passage for Silmarillion fanf= ic authors! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 688 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4913 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 19:14:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 19:14:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.122) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 19:14:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 42601 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2007 19:14:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: EbeBnIcVM1nFrJjOmmxfAWefl8uBr2.7BQI187O_ML.H4AsgNwBG7hunv2rfi.msd6nCn98PQ1iJkmReerIwF9Eb1.hiTK5JNVHoMGWbK5jqsf4hmSiRxuzuBodRtUv7wfoz7A_8.RTkKUsw6Tz1wESqmg-- Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 17 Mar 2007 12:14:06 PDT Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 12:14:06 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1172929406-1174158846=:39848" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <350109.39848.qm@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Torturing,... Maedhros to gifted elves not coping well X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=O_s44mv9WrymPdk4cvfpGLBbicL8xbqdKp5uR3NuoxBIMlOKslFhRh4 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1172929406-1174158846=:39848 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> I'm just not into bad boys, I'm afraid, or elves with deep seeded psychological problems. Lol. Yeah, that rules out a few. ;-) And it's a challenge, and rather out of my area of expertise. But I'm drawn like a moth to flame (oh, the irony of that analogy kills). >>I have recently read a lot about gifted children and their inability to interact socially with their peers because their intellectual age far exceeds their emotional age I agree, I can definitely see Feanor falling into this category. And the "smart but not all that sensible" part fits him too. Gah, I can't quite organize my exact thoughts or reactions to these two generalities and how they apply to various characters, but it's certainly a very interesting point! ~T�rion --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-1172929406-1174158846=:39848 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> I'm just not into bad boys, I'm afraid, or elves with deep seeded psychological problems.

Lol. Yeah, that rules out a few. ;-) And it's a challenge, and rather out of my area of expertise. But I'm drawn like a moth to flame (oh, the irony of that analogy kills).

>>I have recently read a lot about gifted children and their
inability to interact socially with their peers because their
intellectual age far exceeds their emotional age

I agree, I can definitely see Feanor falling into this category. And the "smart but not all that sensible" part fits him too. Gah, I can't quite organize my exact thoughts or reactions to these two generalities and how they apply to various characters, but it's certainly a very interesting point!


~T�rion

Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-1172929406-1174158846=:39848-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 689 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2326 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 19:53:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 19:53:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.215) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 19:53:33 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 19:53:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 19:53:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 19:53:10 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:53:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <417082.1240.qm@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=8reEn1zdvd1_DBxjyv3x-b5cNZszr50_Ppvqc7Z48Wtp9Dbv42Y X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I could so see this causing many arguements. *spin* put your right hand on = Finrod* Then next turn, 'put your right hand on Fingon'. "No! I'm not takin= g my hand off of Finrod!" Ellie Tarion Anarore wro= te: > > *grin* Or maybe something like a Silmarillion version of Twister?? = *innocent look* > > Tarion > > DawnFelagund@... wrote: = > Thanks, Tarion, you had me seriously pondering a Silmari= llion boardgame in the car this morning, featuring something like the spinn= er on the cover of that book ... > > > > > > > ~T=E1rion > > ------= --------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to = love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 690 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29643 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 20:01:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 20:01:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m17.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.207) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 20:01:50 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.ca7.bd8d241 (30739) for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:58:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:58:49 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174161529" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5037 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=jxFwaVOMvYWz8z52-dPrllLTy-ZVsPfmOeQRhohks9bVifUhbgDK X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174161529 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Silmarillion version of Twister?? *innocent look* Maybe it is just me--but I cannot see ANYTHING innocent about the Silmarillion version of Twister. But that is probably why my work does not bear close examination by canatics when it comes to questions of innocence or lack thereof. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174161529 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Silmarillion version of Twister??
*innoc= ent look*
Maybe it is just = me--but I cannot see ANYTHING innocent about the Silmarillion version of T= wister. But that is probably why my work does not bear close examination b= y canatics when it comes to questions of innocence or lack thereof.
=


AOL now offers free email to = everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174161529-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 691 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50410 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 20:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 20:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.59) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 20:05:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 20:05:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 20:05:24 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 20:05:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031620071530.14122.45FAB800000D8AC10000372A22165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=UjGbiB6ktRVje1KKZ6j8GdivY44il_AGOLmrxvKR80O2QkR1977agvlc X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: >= They even get a complete conversation together, at the end! And in that = conversation Maglor gets to say prossibly the most lucid words uttered by = a Feanorian ("If none can release us ... then indeed the Everlasting Darkn= ess shall be out lot" etc, etc) which show an enviable intellectual clarit= y even at the end of his tether. And then - fully aware of the consequences= of what they are about to do- he goes with Maedhros to steal the Silmaril= s, mostly out of love for him and commitment to a lifetime together. Irres= istible, even if you're not in for musicians. (pats little Cano who's prac= tising his scales) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 692 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88894 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 20:07:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 20:07:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.113) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 20:07:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 79285 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2007 20:07:19 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: D9e0nPwVM1kV7ZR_ooxgseXbttCZ6iIl8TXlI8.Mxq1O0R7dX8SL2W33KeM5b7gADGD2rOGirXGOONOFtj1jzow4VahOnOjTgL89t2d_OJ86g4qc.L4jy9wikeg6TGor Received: from [71.164.130.185] by web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 17 Mar 2007 13:07:19 PDT Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 13:07:19 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1439601132-1174162039=:52478" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <227169.52478.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=xrOEQpntiBWBMnie0e2IFE0dogjJXEcQFFXftq-fxLuC5FkeOkvEgls X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1439601132-1174162039=:52478 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lol!! And of course, you have to be careful of where on Finrod you put your hand...so that you don't lose your balance, of course. 0;-) Tarion ellfine2000 wrote: I could so see this causing many arguements. *spin* put your right hand on Finrod* Then next turn, 'put your right hand on Fingon'. "No! I'm not taking my hand off of Finrod!" Ellie Tarion Anarore wrote: > > *grin* Or maybe something like a Silmarillion version of Twister?? *innocent look* --------------------------------- Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. --0-1439601132-1174162039=:52478 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lol!! And of course, you have to be careful of where on Finrod you put your hand...so that you don't lose your balance, of course. 0;-)

Tarion

ellfine2000 wrote:
I could so see this causing many arguements. *spin* put your right
hand on Finrod* Then next turn, 'put your right hand on Fingon'. "No!
I'm not taking my hand off of Finrod!"

Ellie

Tarion Anarore ...> wrote:
>
> *grin* Or maybe something like a Silmarillion version of Twister??
*innocent look*

Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. --0-1439601132-1174162039=:52478-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 693 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67300 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 20:18:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 20:18:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m17.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.207) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 20:18:14 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.c76.d74d32f (30739) for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:17:38 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174162658" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5037 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=9aryJms7k_MvFiQasMKTNosuxhk1yzH81WqykwsrxGGcDuqskoIC X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174162658 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sorry, but all of the love, loyalty, commitment, and the undeniable pain and suffering, makes the story of the Feanorians a real tragedy on the grand scale for me and not simply a question of violent, reckless, disturbed boys, gone terribly wrong. But there is a lot of careless tossing around of those concepts, especially outside of the circle of writers who concentrate on the Silmarillion. It gets a bit tiresome at times to always be fending off stupid Feanor jokes. (Oh, poor me--don't I sound tragic! Sounds like I need to think more about that Twister game and where on Finrod I do or do not want to place my hand.) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174162658 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I'm sorry, but al= l of the love, loyalty, commitment, and the undeniable pain and suffering,= makes the story of the Feanorians a real tragedy on the grand scale for m= e and not simply a question of violent, reckless, disturbed boys, gon= e terribly wrong. But there is a lot of careless tossing around of those c= oncepts, especially outside of the circle of writers who concentrate on th= e Silmarillion. It gets a bit tiresome at times to always be fending off s= tupid Feanor jokes.
 
(Oh, poor me--don't I sou= nd tragic! Sounds like I need to think more about that Twister game and wh= ere on Finrod I do or do not want to place my hand.)

=

AOL now offers free email to everyone. = Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
= -------------------------------1174162658-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 694 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19346 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 21:32:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 21:32:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 21:32:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 21:32:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 21:32:48 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:32:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <031620071453.18016.45FAAF7C000761E40000466022165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction i... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=wIT_3HIrpY5AgY2bf6YW9y60iM3Xiec9DP95PYzKQLXwkoDe-8dnscPD X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: >= > Which leads me to want to open another can of worms and ask others _why= _ the brothers of Maedhros did not try to rescue their brother. Or maybe t= hey did, and it simply wasn't mentioned by the historians who wrote The Si= lm? I've seen lots of stories take lots of different angles on this (one o= f our first challenges here, actually, was to write a story that answered = that question); I have my own theory, but am interested in others' opinion= s and so will keep my two cents in my pocket for the moment. ;) > Dawn,= this seems to be an issue that keeps bothering you, doesn't it? I _do_ re= meber it because our first conversation, about a year ago, dealt precisely= with this. Maybe I can try to add something to what I said: First, they d= idn't know if Maedhros had really survived the ambush as all the others we= re killed, maybe Morgoth was tricking them again (this would be ruled out = in your verse with your Caranthir-the-mind- reader thing). Secondly, they = were rather tight on resources and would not want to use what they had in = one attack on Angband which could mean an almost irreversible defeat and w= ould prevent them fom ever trying to fulfil the Oath. On top they must ha= ve thought they were on their own in M-e (no idea that Fingolfin and the o= thers were attempting to cross the Ice). Thirdly, the overwhelming power o= f the Oath that bound them to do what they were sworn to rather than what = they must have wanted (rescuing their brother). All this required a more c= autious leadership style, possible evidence that Maglor has asserted his p= osition as head of the family and was keeping his brothers under control, = bidding his time and minimizing risks? For what it is worth, this is my $0= .00002 (due to the exchange rate) Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 695 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96505 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 21:49:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 21:49:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc14.comcast.net) (206.18.177.54) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 21:49:43 -0000 Received: from amailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.225.101]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070317205310b14006vo05e>; Sat, 17 Mar 2007 20:53:10 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter01.comcast.net; Sat, 17 Mar 2007 20:53:10 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG), henneth_annun@yahoogroups.com (Henneth Annun) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 20:53:10 +0000 Message-Id: <031720072053.9470.45FC5535000B6768000024FE22120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: HoMe Reading--"The Music of the Ainur"--summary X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=EVJr_M3R9v9YQXSU9yUUoq3Tk3qopygqOP2ZRbejB602Zas_1Bic X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund HoMe 1: The Book of Lost Tales 1 "The Music of the Ainur" Summary At least two years after writing The Cottage of Lost Play, J.R.R. Tolkien wrote The Music of the Ainur. The two documents are connected into a continuous whole by a linking passage, and The Music is also one with the myth that follows it, The Building of Valinor. The Music was written some time between 1918 and 1920. The Link section of the myth picks up where The Cottage of Lost Play left off. Eriol is still in the Room of the Log Fire with his hosts, Lindo and Vair�. Eriol inquires after the Valar--wishing to know more about them--but Vair� suggests that they retire instead, reminding Eriol that he may remain with them until his curiosity is sated. Eriol is led to a bedroom and sleeps soundly, awaking the next morning and deciding to explore the grounds where he is staying. While wandering down a path, he encounters the Elf called R�mil, who was the door-warden who admitted him to the house the day prior. R�mil is angry with a strange blackbird who has happened into his garden, speaking a language that R�mil--a great loremaster--does not know. Once a thrall of Melko, R�mil has learned even the language of the dark beings that serve Melko; he speaks the languages of the Elves, the Valar, and all of animal-kind, though he claims that the language of Men changes too frequently for him to master it. Eriol is made curious by R�mil's words and asks if there is more than one Elven language. R�mil explains that the Noldoli speak a different language than the other three kindreds (Solosimpi, Teleri, and Inwir). He explains that the deviation occurred when the Noldoli traveled to the Great Lands and were sundered for many years from their kin. Those Elves who remain in the Great Lands, R�mil imagines, would speak stranger still. At this point, the two have reached a meadow, where they stop to rest upon a rock as Eriol asks R�mil about the Valar and the creation of the universe. R�mil explains that it began with Il�vatar, who made the Valar. Eriol has never heard of Il�vatar, though this comes as no great surprise to R�mil: The early legends are neglected among the Elves and completely unknown to Men. Here, the Link passage ends and The Music of the Ainur begins as R�mil tells Eriol the creation story. Creation began when Il�vatar sang the Ainur into being and built homes for them in the Void. He taught them many things, the chief of which was Music, and had them sing for him many themes. In this manner, the Music of the Ainur that called the world into being began. This theme was greater than the others, and Il�vatar invited the Ainur to sing of what he had described, adding their own adornments to the theme. The Music flowed out to dark places in the Void, and Il�vatar listened, pleased by the skill of his children. At this time, Melko began to weave elements into the Music that were not of Il�vatar's design. Melko was known to wander off into the Void, seeking the Secret Fire and desiring to create life of his own, going to dark and ugly places where Il�vatar had not yet been. Melko's contributions to the Music became harsh, and those near to him fell into despondency or began to follow his lead. When the Music became its harshest, Il�vatar raised his left hand, and a second theme began. However, Melko continued to strive against it, and his contributions created chaos with the main theme. Weeping, Il�vatar raised his right hand, and a third theme began. Now, there were two separate strains of music: one deep and sorrowful and the other brash and attempting to trump the first with its volume. At times, the two would inadvertently harmonize, despite Melko's efforts. Il�vatar raised both hands, and the Music ended. Il�vatar reminded the Ainur that the Music was not played by them but through them, and that they were only carrying out his wishes. Even Melko's attempt at disharmony would only do greater glory to Il�vatar's purposes in the end, and though Melko's music had introduced evil into the world, it would serve Il�vatar in the end and make the world a more beautiful place. Some of the Ainur were puzzled by this revelation. Melko was ashamed. Il�vatar led the Ainur first to show them the results of their Music, and they saw that the history of the world had begun. The contributions of each Ainu would form a part of the world. To Melko's credit was all that was harsh or violent in the world, yet Il�vatar pointed out that his attempts to dominate the works of his peers had only made them lovelier still. He used the water created by Ulmo as an example: the extreme colds of Melko had created ice and snow, substances more beautiful than Ulmo alone had imagined. The Ainur then wished to enter the world, and Il�vatar permitted this. Some of the Ainur remained behind, but the most beautiful and powerful sought to shape and protect that which they had created. Melko went along under the pretense of wishing to control the violence that he'd unleashed upon the world, though in truth, he sought to dominate Elves and Men, the gifts of whom he was envious. Elves and Men are chiefly of Il�vatar's thought, and none of the Ainur dared to add to this part of the theme. Elves are most like the Ainur in stature and mood, and the Ainur have dealt chiefly with them. Men are given strange gifts. Their time in the world is short, but they will endure forever, whereas the fate of the Elves after the world's ending is not known. Men are not constrained by the Music of the Ainur--and so they are not constrained by fate--and they are free to add to and finish the world in ways that go beyond what was sung in the Music. Because of this, Men often commit acts that go against Il�vatar's will, but Il�vatar is patient with them, knowing that in the end, the harm that they commit will only glorify his purpose. The Link and The Music of the Ainur introduce many ideas that will remain consistent over the thirty-year development of the creation myth, through to the published Ainulindal� that appears in The Silmarillion. In fact, The Music of the Ainur--unlike the rest of the mythology--remains remarkable consistent through several drafts, each of which builds on the next and involves the same general themes and ideas. The Exile of the Noldor receives its first mention here when R�mil discusses how the Noldor were long sundered in the Great Lands from the other Eldar who remained in Valinor. At this point, there are three major kindreds of the Eldar: the Noldoli (or Gnomes), the Solosimpi, and the Teleri. The Inwir are a royal clan within the Teleri. This idea is used to explain the development of the two Elvish languages that will later be known as Quenya and Sindarin. The modes by which a single language diverged into two different languages is different between the Tales and The Silmarillion, however. In the Tales, all of the Elves began speaking a single language; the language diverges into two languages relatively late in their history. When the Noldor were exiled to the Great Lands, the long estrangement between them and the "Koreldar"--the Elves who remained in Valinor--caused a single language to deviate into two. On the other hand, The Silmarillion describes the deviation of the two Elvish languages as occurring much earlier in the history when the Eldar journey to Valinor and leave the Sindar in Middle-earth. Here, the long separation of the Eldar and Sindar results in the development of two languages that share a common source: Quenya and Sindarin, respectively. Comparing the texts side by side, several important differences can be seen. While the early passages of The Music of the Ainur are very consistent--even identical--when compared with the published Ainulindal�, the ending of The Music did not make it into the Ainulindal�. Parts of it, however, were transposed to the first chapter of the Quenta Silmarillion. Christopher Tolkien points out in his commentary that the results of the Music are considerably different between The Music of the Ainur and the Ainulindal�. While the Ainur in The Music find that their song has created a world into which they may descend, the Ainur of the Ainulindal� are only given a vision which Il�vatar makes into a reality with his pronouncement of "E�! Let these things Be!" The Ainur then must bring into reality the world that they have seen in their vision. But several other notable differences exist as well. The Music of the Ainur makes no mention of Maiar distinct from the Valar; these lesser Ainur do not yet exist in the mythology. Many who will later come to play valuable roles as Maiar are now considered Valar, i.e. Oss� and �nen (later called Uinen). The Valar are capable of having children and Manw� and Varda are said to have a son and daughter; in the later mythology, the Ainur cannot procreate. The Music also discusses in greater details the differences between Elves and Men, including differences in their fates at the world's end. Also interesting to note is the fact that Il�vatar in The Music of the Ainur lacks omniscience: Melko journeys to places in the Void that are untouched by Il�vatar and even keeps his thoughts secret. No similar mentions are made in the Ainulindal�. --- I would like to thank Pandemonium for her help in analyzing the differences between the documents, particularly as they pertain to Il�vatar's omniscience. --- Name equivalencies between The Silmarillion and The Music of the Ainur � Telvido Prince of Cats is a servant of Melko and an early predecessor of Sauron. � Melko, of course, becomes Melkor. � Omar is a Vala who appears in the Tales but later disappears entirely from the mythology. � The Noldoli and Gnomes are the Noldor. � Gnomish is a precursor of Sindarin, though it is important to note the Gnomish and Sindarin come to differ from Quenya by very different means in their respective legends. � The Solosimpi are the Teleri. � The Teleri of the Tales become the Vanyar of The Silmarillion. The Inwir are a royal clan within the Teleri (later Vanyar). � K�r is the name given the Noldorin city of Tirion. � The Great Lands refer to what will later be called the Outer Lands, including Beleriand and Middle-earth. � �nen becomes Uinen in The Silmarillion. � Fionw�-�rion, here a son of Manw� and Varda, becomes Manw�'s herald Eonw� in The Silmarillion. � Erinti, here a daughter of Manw� and Varda, becomes Ilmar� the handmaiden of Varda in The Silmarillion. � Vai is the Outer Sea. � Inw� is an early form of Ingw�. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 697 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63556 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 23:24:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 23:24:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 23:24:10 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.d17.92b3169 (30739) for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:23:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:23:56 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174173836" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5037 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Speaking of bad boys, a SSP ;) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=-DCc0iF9TlvHekrGHXkN6Wm4FDoIuD114ffW_3AJurPMK4677QVP X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174173836 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/17/2007 5:21:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes: Well, hmm Celegorm is not a bad boy. Just a very intriguing character, but not evil and bad... Rhapsody, Celegorm is not a bad boy in my view. People do a couple of not-so-wonderful things in several hundred years and everyone gets all upset. (Teasing you--you're supposed to laugh here.) I will definitely read your "Requiem" story. I also have Celegorm doing something nice right away in the current chapter of my post-Thangorodrim story which I am working on now. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174173836 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/17/2007 5:21:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com w= rites:
Well, hmm Celegorm is not a bad = boy. Just a very intriguing character,
but not evil and bad...
Rhapsody, Celegorm is not a bad boy i= n my view. People do a couple of not-so-wonderful things in several hundre= d years and everyone gets all upset. (Teasing you--you're supposed to laug= h here.) I will definitely read your "Requiem" story. I also have Celegorm=  doing something nice right away in the current chapter of my po= st-Thangorodrim story which I am working on now.



<= DIV>
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out = more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------------------------1174173836-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 698 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82805 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2007 22:29:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2007 22:29:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.167) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2007 22:29:27 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2007 22:29:27 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2007 22:29:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2007 22:29:27 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 22:29:27 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <21732.32131.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=otxVTMwnTpQ-CwgWPAnfuDLFD1ZLNUo5BxUVOJMy3DN8cqQQPROPJA X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser Does it count if it's only a retelling, memory, or re-living of the exper= ience? I've only written (part of) 2 Silm fanfics, but these events crop = up in both of them. In one, Maedhros explains his battle scars, and Maglo= r tells someone about what Maedhros was like when he was brought back (whi= ch naturally involves a retelling of some of what happened while he was in= Angband). But the second fic could be subtitled "torturing Maedhros," as = I make him relive everything...in the Ring of Doom. He's very matter-of-f= act about most of it (having the perspective of time), but still, I cover = all 4 of the scenarios you mentioned, and will add all 3 kinslayings to i= t before I'm done. Poor Maedhros! MithLuin --- In SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore wrote: > > This= leads me to a new question: > > Is there anyone here who has *not* writt= en a Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue= fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywher= e. It can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (l= ike mine). > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 699 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46957 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2007 23:16:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2007 23:16:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53003.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.33) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2007 23:16:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 64444 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Mar 2007 23:15:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20070318231554.64442.qmail@web53003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: qEML8_wVM1l.QX0byRjvbCnYz.Jyf44vYvDC4gcqYnZVT3BgURbkGfOJUyWXxhRNSw-- Received: from [206.251.8.147] by web53003.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 23:15:54 GMT Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 23:15:54 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1837378505-1174259754=:62914" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=1HLseJgPYDtFjNtyuiMkfXi8Is5zVyFVz187UmRddwk9PKdlsx2L --0-1837378505-1174259754=:62914 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't know if the first one counts, but I think I'd count the second one... Could you give me titles and links for them? They sound quite intriguing... Cel Helyanwe marielprosser wrote: Does it count if it's only a retelling, memory, or re-living of the experience? I've only written (part of) 2 Silm fanfics, but these events crop up in both of them. In one, Maedhros explains his battle scars, and Maglor tells someone about what Maedhros was like when he was brought back (which naturally involves a retelling of some of what happened while he was in Angband). But the second fic could be subtitled "torturing Maedhros," as I make him relive everything...in the Ring of Doom. He's very matter-of-fact about most of it (having the perspective of time), but still, I cover all 4 of the scenarios you mentioned, and will add all 3 kinslayings to it before I'm done. Poor Maedhros! MithLuin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore wrote: > > This leads me to a new question: > > Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like mine). > --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-1837378505-1174259754=:62914 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't know if the first one counts, but I think I'd count the second one...  Could you give me titles and links for them?  They sound quite intriguing...

Cel Helyanwe

marielprosser wrote:

Does it count if it's only a retelling, memory, or re-living of the
experience? I've only written (part of) 2 Silm fanfics, but these
events crop up in both of them. In one, Maedhros explains his battle
scars, and Maglor tells someone about what Maedhros was like when he
was brought back (which naturally involves a retelling of some of what
happened while he was in Angband).

But the second fic could be subtitled "torturing Maedhros," as I make
him relive everything...in the Ring of Doom. He's very matter-of-fact
about most of it (having the perspective of time), but still, I cover
all 4 of the scenarios you mentioned, and will add all 3 kinslayings
to it before I'm done.

Poor Maedhros!

MithLuin

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore
...> wrote:
>
> This leads me to a new question:
>
> Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-Angband
fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros
post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be
rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like
mine).
>


New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-1837378505-1174259754=:62914-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 700 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59401 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2007 23:19:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2007 23:19:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m16.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.206) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2007 23:19:09 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.cda.a331c2f (58677) for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:18:51 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174259931" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5037 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mea... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=UPbZB8FLP7IARuezkadEwBxEwrPaawqKQqpJRfSgM9qeyWZ7UlU5 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174259931 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Definitely want to read them too--although I might get upset. I'll just have to be extra brave. I don't know if the first one counts, but I think I'd count the second one... Could you give me titles and links for them? They sound quite intriguing.. Cel Helyanwe marielprosser wrote: Does it count if it's only a retelling, memory, or re-living of the experience? I've only written (part of) 2 Silm fanfics, but these events crop up in both of them. In one, Maedhros explains his battle scars, and Maglor tells someone about what Maedhros was like when he was brought back (which naturally involves a retelling of some of what happened while he was in Angband). But the second fic could be subtitled "torturing Maedhros," as I make him relive everything..him relive everything...in the Ring about most of it (having the perspective of time), but still, I cover all 4 of the scenarios you mentioned, and will add all 3 kinslayings to it before I'm done. Poor Maedhros! MithLuin ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174259931 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Definitely = want to read them too--although I might get upset. I'll just have to be ex= tra brave.

I don't know if the first= one counts, but I think I'd count the second one...  Could you giv= e me titles and links for them?  They sound quite intriguing..= .

Cel Helyanwe

marielprosser = yahoo.com> wrote:


Does it count if it's only a retelling, memory, or re-l= iving of the
experience? I've only written (part of) 2 Silm fanfic= s, but these
events crop up in both of them. In one, Maedhros expl= ains his battle
scars, and Maglor tells someone about what Maedhro= s was like when he
was brought back (which naturally involves a re= telling of some of what
happened while he was in Angband).

= But the second fic could be subtitled "torturing Maedhros," as I make =
him relive everything...in the Ring of Doom. He's very matter= -of-fact
about most of it (having the perspective of time), but st= ill, I cover
all 4 of the scenarios you mentioned, and will add al= l 3 kinslayings
to it before I'm done.

Poor Maedhros!
MithLuin
=
 



AOL n= ow offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL= at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174259931-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 701 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42201 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 00:47:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 00:47:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31411.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.123) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 00:47:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 41807 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2007 00:46:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: zMfTRa0VM1k3SGVrQjxjHnysK_VOpKezYTq7J1oDQnr7fopI.VoZq_Ay8zgWN1XSSwSsHEC5dlTpeovKni.u.Gp0VZX3NgdNOD3GeOaIrZE.FGViefne5Z3_Hxc.WiQHNq8ikla41MNtiXTZhI.T68hH Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31411.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:46:50 PDT Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:46:50 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1521668391-1174265210=:41489" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <663138.41489.qm@web31411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mea... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=4EBNwLPYIp2yBlfK2tr_9m_OJPllqpS9updA0kh84CDZfMh4adtkD_U X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1521668391-1174265210=:41489 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>But the second fic could be subtitled "torturing Maedhros," as I make him relive everything...in the Ring of Doom. Yeah, I'd say that counts. ;-) And I agree, do SSP here when you're done. :-) ~T�rion --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. --0-1521668391-1174265210=:41489 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>But the second fic could be subtitled "torturing Maedhros," as I make
him relive everything...in the Ring of Doom.

Yeah, I'd say that counts. ;-)

And I agree, do SSP here when you're done. :-)


~T�rion

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. --0-1521668391-1174265210=:41489-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 702 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33257 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 19:41:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 19:41:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 19:41:22 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 19:41:20 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 19:41:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 19:41:20 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:41:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20070318231554.64442.qmail@web53003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=syWgtOijSioRlTvIW1egxjyUoZG025KHFFFlIBAfR8gvdON5LipCLg X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser Thank you for the interest, but sorry, they aren't finished yet, so they = aren't posted anywhere. When I do finish them, I'll be sure to come back = with links. The first story is very long, so it will be an indefinite amo= unt of time before I finish it, but the second story is already coming alo= ng nicely (I have 3 chapters done, and would be surprised if it were any m= ore than 8). The title should be "Lessons from the Mountain," [unless I c= hange it, of course *grin*] and I plan to finish it sometime this spring. = MithLuin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Celebrian Hel= yanwe wrote: > > I don't know if the first one counts, = but I think I'd count the second one... Could you give me titles and link= s for them? They sound quite intriguing... > > Cel Helyanwe > > marielp= rosser wrote: > Doe= s it count if it's only a retelling, memory, or re-living of the > exper= ience? I've only written (part of) 2 Silm fanfics, but these > events c= rop up in both of them. In one, Maedhros explains his battle > scars, a= nd Maglor tells someone about what Maedhros was like when he > was broug= ht back (which naturally involves a retelling of some of what > happened= while he was in Angband). > > But the second fic could be subtitled "to= rturing Maedhros," as I make > him relive everything...in the Ring of Do= om. He's very matter-of- fact > about most of it (having the perspective= of time), but still, I cover > all 4 of the scenarios you mentioned, an= d will add all 3 kinslayings > to it before I'm done. > > Poor Maed= hros! > > MithLuin > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.co= m, Tarion Anarore > wrote: > > > > This leads me to a= new question: > > > > Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Mae= dhros-in- Angband > fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic= , or Maedhros > post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywher= e. It can be > rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewher= e (like > mine). > > > > > > > > = > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate for= ce in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships= . Plus: play games and win prizes. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 703 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92196 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 19:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 19:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m16.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.206) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 19:59:25 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.cbc.d9d21a7 (43932) for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:43:58 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174333438" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mea... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=P9u_p-EHk9obXo_okqMp6e7IIFIpmqyzsZZ8tziHBXQx7zeYXFBP X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174333438 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will definitely be on the look-out for them. Oshun ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174333438 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I will definitely= be on the look-out for them.
 
Oshun
 
 



AO= L.com.
-------------------------------1174333438-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 704 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56833 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 21:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 21:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.40) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 21:09:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 79176 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2007 21:09:35 -0000 Message-ID: <20070319210935.79174.qmail@web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: U03ENNQVM1nmciy8sL.ayoTSPOHOhE6a1JGP97LOHncfmCWToBlSAnlBXqGiElz7RsJBFp5_bu.VEG8o1vikZRJZNeyzkpG3U8ty5Ld2nUOZb1efs8R80ZTB9jIRFqY9Q1hyGV1UNuJLoA-- Received: from [206.251.8.147] by web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:09:35 GMT Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:09:35 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1612028071-1174338575=:78441" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=Ni6SmgUI9UPxdLiMhBZN_aweK7oxt4RmiGLIeR1obmkgYM4spw4A --0-1612028071-1174338575=:78441 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Then I shall look forward to reading the second one in the near future! :-) And I totally understand not posting until you've completed a fic. I seem to finally have the discipline to do that now. Then I don't have to worry about getting writer's block *after* I have a whole bunch of readers chasing me because they want an update! Cel Helyanwe marielprosser wrote: Thank you for the interest, but sorry, they aren't finished yet, so they aren't posted anywhere. When I do finish them, I'll be sure to come back with links. The first story is very long, so it will be an indefinite amount of time before I finish it, but the second story is already coming along nicely (I have 3 chapters done, and would be surprised if it were any more than 8). The title should be "Lessons from the Mountain," [unless I change it, of course *grin*] and I plan to finish it sometime this spring. MithLuin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: > > I don't know if the first one counts, but I think I'd count the second one... Could you give me titles and links for them? They sound quite intriguing... > > Cel Helyanwe > > marielprosser wrote: > Does it count if it's only a retelling, memory, or re-living of the > experience? I've only written (part of) 2 Silm fanfics, but these > events crop up in both of them. In one, Maedhros explains his battle > scars, and Maglor tells someone about what Maedhros was like when he > was brought back (which naturally involves a retelling of some of what > happened while he was in Angband). > > But the second fic could be subtitled "torturing Maedhros," as I make > him relive everything...in the Ring of Doom. He's very matter-of- fact > about most of it (having the perspective of time), but still, I cover > all 4 of the scenarios you mentioned, and will add all 3 kinslayings > to it before I'm done. > > Poor Maedhros! > > MithLuin > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore > wrote: > > > > This leads me to a new question: > > > > Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in- Angband > fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or Maedhros > post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can be > rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like > mine). > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. > --------------------------------- What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. --0-1612028071-1174338575=:78441 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Then I shall look forward to reading the second one in the near future! :-) And I totally understand not posting until you've completed a fic.  I seem to finally have the discipline to do that now.  Then I don't have to worry about getting writer's block *after* I have a whole bunch of readers chasing me because they want an update!

Cel Helyanwe

marielprosser wrote:

Thank you for the interest, but sorry, they aren't finished yet, so
they aren't posted anywhere. When I do finish them, I'll be sure to
come back with links. The first story is very long, so it will be
an indefinite amount of time before I finish it, but the second
story is already coming along nicely (I have 3 chapters done, and
would be surprised if it were any more than 8). The title should
be "Lessons from the Mountain," [unless I change it, of course
*grin*] and I plan to finish it sometime this spring.

MithLuin

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Celebrian Helyanwe
...> wrote:
>
> I don't know if the first one counts, but I think I'd count the
second one... Could you give me titles and links for them? They
sound quite intriguing...
>
> Cel Helyanwe
>
> marielprosser ...>
wrote:
> Does it count if it's only a retelling, memory, or re-living of
the
> experience? I've only written (part of) 2 Silm fanfics, but
these
> events crop up in both of them. In one, Maedhros explains his
battle
> scars, and Maglor tells someone about what Maedhros was like when
he
> was brought back (which naturally involves a retelling of some of
what
> happened while he was in Angband).
>
> But the second fic could be subtitled "torturing Maedhros," as I
make
> him relive everything...in the Ring of Doom. He's very matter-of-
fact
> about most of it (having the perspective of time), but still, I
cover
> all 4 of the scenarios you mentioned, and will add all 3
kinslayings
> to it before I'm done.
>
> Poor Maedhros!
>
> MithLuin
>
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore
> > wrote:
> >
> > This leads me to a new question:
> >
> > Is there anyone here who has *not* written a Maedhros-in-
Angband
> fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic, or
Maedhros
> post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It can
be
> rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like
> mine).
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing.
Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and
win prizes.
>


What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. --0-1612028071-1174338575=:78441-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 705 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97707 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 03:11:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 03:11:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc12.comcast.net) (206.18.177.52) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 03:11:59 -0000 Received: from amailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.225.101]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070320031151b1200e1m1me>; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:11:51 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter01.comcast.net; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:11:50 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG), henneth_annun@yahoogroups.com (Henneth Annun) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:11:50 +0000 Message-Id: <032020070311.10741.45FF50F60007A70D000029F522120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: "The Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor" Is Uploaded! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=PBKaKi5kJa5QSjmW5zc1YoFc6p-3_5xDHzIyOQH9TutRe-w9zwwS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, The next chapter from HoMe 1: The Book of Lost Tales 1 is posted on our Yahoo group. The next chapter is "Of the Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor" and introduces in detail the Valar as JRRT first envisioned them as well as describing their early conflicts with Melkor. To access the file: -Log into Yahoo! and visit the group's page. -Choose FILES from the menu on the left side. -Scroll down to the folder called "The History of Middle-earth." All of the chapters are available there in PDF format. I've done my best to correct any mistakes that occurred while scanning and to restore the original formating, but as usual, please use the published books as your primary reference as I'm dealing with a huge amount of material in a very short time; I make a lot of mistakes. :) Also, for those who want access to my chapter annotations and other notes compiled during this project, I am making them available on my LiveJournal. You will need a free account to access them; please visit the link below and leave me a comment indicating your interest, and I will add you to the list! http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/173429.html Best regards to all, Dawn Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 706 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87180 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 14:42:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 14:42:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.32) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 14:42:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 57338 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Mar 2007 14:41:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20070320144102.57336.qmail@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: DPLJn4wVM1kxGsD43xPB1_87MIXdIVkSYieR8V4g0KpiZMW7BBpOFP2QntKV2An7yQPlVNDj6Ax7.KDsesTi40TuSovLNYj8aprAy03IcFklf8bydHwmK3.IRuc.HSo- Received: from [206.251.8.147] by web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:41:02 GMT Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:41:02 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1624594150-1174401662=:57318" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=jopEeifX9O2AU-ER9Hx4kdtpR4dY_A5-z4q1Rg8nZfu9XHMv3EGD --0-1624594150-1174401662=:57318 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Did Elenwe drown or did she freeze to death? Considering that it was while they were crossing the Helcaraxe (sp), either's possible, or a combination of both... Such as she slipped and fell, but died from the cold after someone pulled her out... Cel Helyanwe rhapsody_the_bard wrote: Aredhel dies of poison... Idril's mom drowns (Elenwe, wasn't it?), not sure what happened to Idril though. Hmmm --------------------------------- What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. --0-1624594150-1174401662=:57318 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Did Elenwe drown or did she freeze to death?  Considering that it was while they were crossing the Helcaraxe (sp), either's possible, or a combination of both...  Such as she slipped and fell, but died from the cold after someone pulled her out...

Cel Helyanwe

rhapsody_the_bard wrote:
Aredhel dies of poison... Idril's mom drowns (Elenwe, wasn't it?), not
sure what happened to Idril though. Hmmm


What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. --0-1624594150-1174401662=:57318-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 708 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99732 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 16:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 16:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.122) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 16:21:40 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 16:21:24 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 16:21:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 16:21:24 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:21:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Looking for fic to read... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=ftdfEuEgTmEGQpeG3rNVkp08MOKvmAXnqLOddiz3BT1pytzlq65u X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Klose wrote: > (hoping she won't get into trouble for spamming the list :P)= Nevah! Not here. :) Please feel free to share story recommmendations and= SSPs (shameless self-promotion) whenever you'd like! This list is general= ly pretty quiet and, even when it's not (like lately ;), Yahoo allows memb= ers to change their email settings if they find they receive too many mess= ages from us, so on-topic posts about Tolkien and writing are always welco= me. :) I posted a link to all of my stories for Calenlass the other day, = but here it is again: http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/141049.html I= t's on LJ so not the best for printing, probably, but if any of the summar= ies intrigue you, feel free to email me (DawnFelagund@comcast.net) and I'l= l send you a copy in a more printable format. :) Another Man's Cage, The = Tapestries, and By the Light of Roses are a novel and two novellas, respec= tively. (Though be forewarned that BtLoR is slash.) The rest are short sto= ries. Enjoy your journey! :) Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 709 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10243 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 16:29:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 16:29:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.91) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 16:29:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 8344 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 16:26:06 -0000 Received: from m132p013.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.184.109]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub76.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Mar 2007 16:26:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <46000C0C.000001.03436@MARINA> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:30:04 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_46N7QL80000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for fic to read... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=hMm5zYVsv42l1Ydil93RL9tQgrzQzQ2eCCW2P4sIzLU63vkXqn8k X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_46N7QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Have a look at www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin There are a several lots of chapter stories....one about Glorfindel before= he was named that way (gondolindrim) a novel about Maeglin...(Return of the Fallen) Some real good darkfiction (the captive) or go to=20 www.orgsites.com/wa/lithonion Have fun there Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Klose Date: 03/20/07 16:53:02 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for fic to read... =20 Hi guys, I'm looking for some reading material of the Arda-verse persuasion to keep me occupied during a train journey to London this weekend. I seem to have run out of things to read - from the usual sources anyway, like HASA, ff.net and SoA.=20 If anyone would like to share their story links with me (offlist, that is!), that would be absolutely brilliant. Points to multi-chaptered stories that are found on archives like Open Scrolls and Stories of Arda that let you view all chapters at one go. :P I would appreciate any and all help in this regard - replies to anarchy[at]gmail[dot]com, if you will! :) Thanks much, -k. (hoping she won't get into trouble for spamming the list :P) =20 --------------Boundary-00=_46N7QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Have a look at
 
=
 
There are a several lots of chap= ter stories....one about Glorfindel before he was named that way (gondolind= rim)
 
a novel about Maeglin...(Return of the&nb= sp;Fallen)
 
Some real good darkfiction (the cap= tive)
 
or go to
=
 
Have fun there
 
Marina&n= bsp;
 
-------Ori= ginal Message-------
 
=
From: Klose
Date: 03/20/07 16:53:02
Subject: [SilmarillionWrit= ersGuild] Looking for fic to read...
 

Hi guys,

I'm looking for some reading material of t= he Arda-verse persuasion to
keep me occupied during a train journey to L= ondon this weekend. I seem
to have run out of things to read - from the = usual sources anyway,
like HASA, ff.net and SoA.

If anyone would= like to share their story links with me (offlist, that
is!), that would= be absolutely brilliant. Points to multi-chaptered
stories that are fou= nd on archives like Open Scrolls and Stories of
Arda that let you view a= ll chapters at one go. :P

I would appreciate any and all help in thi= s regard - replies to
anarchy[at]gmail[dot]com, if you will! :)
=
Thanks much,
-k.
(hoping she won't get into trouble for spamming = the list :P)

Somelike that has killed her. I guess a=  bunch also broke into the ice and was killed..so bad...Idril mig= ht have gotten a traumata from it..
 
Maegl= in got quiet after his mother died.
 
Marin= a 
 
-------= Original Message-------
 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for di= scussion
 

Did Elenwe d= rown or did she freeze to death?  Considering that it was while they w= ere crossing the Helcaraxe (sp), either's possible, or a combination of bot= h...  Such as she slipped and fell, but died from the cold after someo= ne pulled her out...

Cel Helyanwe

rhapsody_the_bar= d com> wrote:

=
Aredhel dies of poison... Idril's mom drowns (Ele= nwe, wasn't it?), not
sure what happened to Idril though. Hmmm


=

What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a fre= e analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship= .

 
=
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_6CN76RO0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 711 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58142 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 16:34:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 16:34:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.184) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 16:34:03 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 16:33:09 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 16:33:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 16:33:09 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:33:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20070320144102.57336.qmail@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=2Z3wE2Oc6dLux0-tJR1IxsD9dkd7jZSVzbiVRnufVfa_nJnyBf0h X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Cel wrote: > Did Elenwe drown or did she freeze to death? Considering tha= t it was while they were crossing the Helcaraxe (sp), either's possible, = or a combination of both... Such as she slipped and fell, but died from t= he cold after someone pulled her out... >From HoMe XII, "The Shibboleth of = Feanor," this is said about Elenwe: Irisse who went ever with the people o= f Turgon was called Ireth,(39) by substitution of Sindarin -eth (< -itta) = frequent in feminine names for Quenya -isse. Elenwe her mother had no Sind= arin name, for she never reached Beleriand. She perished in the crossing = of the Ice; and Turgon was thereafter unappeasable in his enmity for Feano= r and his sons. He had himself come near to death in the bitter waters wh= en he attempted to save her and his daughter Itaril, whom the breaking of = treacherous ice had cast into the cruel sea. Itaril he saved;(40) but the = body of Elenwe was covered in fallen ice. Hope that helps! :) Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 712 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25352 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 16:53:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 16:53:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.120) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 16:53:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 21538 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 16:46:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) ([172.18.5.229]) (envelope-sender ) by fallback02.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Mar 2007 16:46:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 13712 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 16:41:23 -0000 Received: from m132p013.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.184.109]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub76.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Mar 2007 16:41:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <46000FA1.000007.03436@MARINA> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:45:21 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_LVN7WCW0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=Nwhd44vNu5TLxgN01wF-4jfEZ5b89CjWa7M4GS44GYTK2ZJVmYQH X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_LVN7WCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wonderful!!! Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Dawn Felagund Date: 03/20/07 17:34:09 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for di= scussion =20 Cel wrote: > Did Elenwe drown or did she freeze to death? Considering that it=20 was while they were crossing the Helcaraxe (sp), either's possible,=20 or a combination of both... Such as she slipped and fell, but died=20 from the cold after someone pulled her out... >From HoMe XII, "The Shibboleth of Feanor," this is said about Elenwe: Hope that helps! :) Dawn =20 --------------Boundary-00=_LVN7WCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wonderful!!!
Marina 
 
-------Original M= essage-------
 
Date: 03/20/07 17:34:09
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Silmaril= lionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion
 

Cel wrote:

> Did Elen= we drown or did she freeze to death? Considering that it
was while they= were crossing the Helcaraxe (sp), either's possible,
or a combination = of both... Such as she slipped and fell, but died
from the cold after s= omeone pulled her out...

From HoMe XII, "The Shibboleth of Feanor," = this is said about Elenwe:



Hope that helps! :)
Dawn

&nbs= p;
=
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_LVN7WCW0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 713 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73601 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 16:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 16:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.250) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 16:58:58 -0000 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d11so1636297and for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:58:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=W2moNZWEXMo6tpwt9W6LI7l/ExUloH0qbwwcb0UZRkom0Wv6LHozUUpS5iNBVPUFncML0K1/bcUChnrpRemRXzlp/+3uhVAj/Zi68dEAncNzXFMEPmLOf2c0KB6RS1SYyMKD5dNzPzRKbyBjpP3APA0LyNHKg/ApyLO08IAXw6E= Received: by 10.100.132.16 with SMTP id f16mr5266195and.1174409937313; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.123.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:58:57 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_127949_6514067.1174409937260" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Tuxedo Elf" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for fic to read... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219404730; y=Y0Rm7ffjVaJth0N-m6kb1FbYLNIMsW5LYffNnOL72_L_FflH6qBFIQ X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf ------=_Part_127949_6514067.1174409937260-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 714 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82050 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 17:55:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 17:55:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 17:55:13 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 17:52:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 17:52:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 17:52:10 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:52:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <21732.32131.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mean to Maedhros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=ZhuY4hVdycC6A3sUjaMHAIwy0hBFHbg7O2NfZEXTq1G2zmAwzuTb X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund wrote: > Is there anyone here who has *not* written a = Maedhros-in-Angband fic, Maedhros-hanging-around fic, Maedhros rescue fic,= or Maedhros post-rescue fic? It doesn't have to be published anywhere. It= can be rotting away on your hard drive or in a notebook somewhere (like = mine). > > Just curious, since this group of fics seems to be a rite of = passage for Silmarillion fanfic authors! Even I'm guilty of writing (well,= starting) at least two of the above. ;-) I haven't written a full-length = story on any of these things yet (though I have a ficlet about Caranthir c= ommunicating with Maedhros using mindspeak during Maedhros's captivity), t= hough not for lack of interest. I'm trying to keep my stories in some sort= of order, as writing this now would give away details that I hope to be a= surprise in the stories following "Another Man's Cage." I figure that in= about ten years, I will be to the point of writing about Thangorodrim. ;)= Another rite of passage is also "Maglor in lament," either wandering the= shores or appearing somewhere in later history. I have a couple of ficlet= s about that too. Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 715 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63491 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 17:57:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 17:57:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.128) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 17:57:45 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 17:56:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 17:56:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 17:56:59 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:56:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: G-Mail Problems? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=jNItHuPnObTDWyfTYZQUyFDWuo86KoM-hyrpHHm7-X33j1jR6lgr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund wrote: > I do use gmail, but I am a no-mail member here..= . Did I bounce back? I > have plenty of space left at gmail. No, you were= n't one of them, which originally puzzled me even more (since I remembered= that you use G-mail), but then I thought that you didn't get individual m= ails on this list. I think it was six or seven users whom I got "bounces" = from: Tux, Marta, Appoggiato, Phynke, and Marina are five that I can recal= l off the top of my head. Since I've seen Tux and Marina post recently, th= en I'm guessing they're getting at least some messages? I haven't gotten = a bounce notification since, so maybe the problem is solved. Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 716 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73484 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 18:00:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 18:00:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 18:00:26 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 18:00:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 18:00:20 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:00:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Elven scarring, (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=q9Y9cr0N-GeKyPWwsy4oSTShanYGKzo4c53loWFG1gvhzVNf7HQ1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Rhapsody wrote: > Can I suggest other search entries than scars? Tolkien us= ed quite a > lot of different words to say the wame: wither, marred, burnt = are > words that come to mind, I had my nose stuck in BOTL lately and those= > words were used quite often... > > I know, maybe semantics, but still i= t would give you a better oversight. Thanks, Rhapsy, if I investigate it = further, than I'll check these words too! :) At the time of search, I didn= 't have time but for a quickie, and from "scar" I got enough evidence (for= me) to conclude that it is within canon to say that Elves can scar. Now I= 'm trying to resist the urge to see what I can find for those words ... :^= D Dawn the Research Geek From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 717 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88422 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 18:04:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 18:04:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 18:04:25 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.c88.d01a00b (43932) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:03:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:03:39 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174413819" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mea... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=bvZokTdN1VQsU3jd3wErDRdiUOM7oq13_9amSL-uuhbOOiKtBZBm X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174413819 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/2007 12:56:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: I haven't written a full-length story on any of these things yet (though I have a ficlet about Caranthir communicating with Maedhros using mindspeak during Maedhros's captivity), though not for lack of interest. I'm trying to keep my stories in some sort of order, as writing this now would give away details that I hope to be a surprise in the stories following "Another Man's Cage." I figure that in about ten years, I will be to the point of writing about Thangorodrim. Dear, lord, Dawn! You make me feel so silly and light-minded to jump right into the whole mess and try to tell the story with so little thought behind it. I am quite certain, however, for as much influence as your novel and your world view have had upon my vision of these characters, that we will tell very different stories. But I cannot believe that I am actually going to have to wait ten years for your version of the story. Oh, my. I am stunned. Meanwhile, I am plodding away at my second chapter in what I think of as "My Thangorodrim" story, which has precious little about Thangorodrim in it and was shamelessly plotted and written only a couple of months after it first occurred to me to take a chance on it... ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174413819 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/20/2007 12:56:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.= net writes:
I haven't written a full-le= ngth story on any of these things yet
(though I have a ficlet about = Caranthir communicating with Maedhros
using mindspeak during Maedhro= s's captivity), though not for lack of
interest. I'm trying to keep = my stories in some sort of order, as
writing this now would give awa= y details that I hope to be a
surprise in the stories following "Ano= ther Man's Cage." I figure
that in about ten years, I will be to the = point of writing about
Thangorodrim.
<= /DIV>
Dear, lord, Dawn! You make me feel so silly and light-minded to = jump right into the whole mess and try to tell the story with so little th= ought behind it. I am quite certain, however, for as much influence as&nbs= p;your novel and your world view have had upon my vision of these characte= rs, that we will tell very different stories. But I cannot believe that I = am actually going to have to wait ten years for your version of the&n= bsp;story. Oh, my. I am stunned. Meanwhile, I am plodding away at my secon= d chapter in what I think of as "My Thangorodrim" story, which has preciou= s little about Thangorodrim in it and was shamelessly plotted and wri= tten only a couple of months after it first occurred to me to take a chanc= e on it...



AOL now offer= s free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. =
-------------------------------1174413819-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 718 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11027 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 18:08:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 18:08:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.249) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 18:08:17 -0000 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b33so1918746ana for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:08:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=aTZtoy3ZHe001COV/q4CjTvvODw37nSY30/uFYlrqPM3f6k5XI4Tzp3Ua7QQ9a6Nt8eJazWGtfYKQPzizmukDCIGlmB5aYAhN8SNfXDxyXu3A/7afVKnb7UU1awnEcg0bDTqUIO0YCXEpDsUphigYcMTHIa2Ijw1hlbb8JJKzOM= Received: by 10.100.93.5 with SMTP id q5mr5399409anb.1174414096828; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.123.14 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:08:16 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_129253_25853648.1174414096784" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Tuxedo Elf" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: G-Mail Problems? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219404730; y=C-NtbnBNZ3zgZU0KD3si_mZVMV1vVqfarizW57IWHfluBUbTQPTZjA X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf ------=_Part_129253_25853648.1174414096784-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 719 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36679 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 18:12:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 18:12:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 18:12:26 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 18:12:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 18:12:19 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:12:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mea... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=O-mFbI72305YAhBzd5jstK6CakDC_LZ5hy_-g4eRT2oiu1WHM6wJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Oshun wrote: > Dear, lord, Dawn! You make me feel so silly and light-minded= to jump right > into the whole mess and try to tell the story with so l= ittle thought behind it. > I am quite certain, however, for as much infl= uence as your novel and your > world view have had upon my vision of the= se characters, that we will tell very > different stories. But I cannot = believe that I am actually going to have to > wait ten years for your ve= rsion of the story. Oh, my. I am stunned. > Meanwhile, I am plodding awa= y at my second chapter in what I think of as "My > Thangorodrim" story, = which has precious little about Thangorodrim in it and was > shamelessly= plotted and written only a couple of months after it first occurred to = > me to take a chance on it... I think you're definitely the more normal o= f the two of us, Oshun. ;) And I definitely don't recommend getting so ena= mored with the idea of startling and surprising one's readers with revelat= ions that one refuses to write the most compelling stories. The Thangorod= rim story was one of the first that I "wrote," at least in terms of mental= ly plotting and coming up with complete scenes. So, in short, there's abso= lutely nothing wrong with how you're doing things, imho. I love what I've = seen of your story ... and I don't have to wait ten years for it. ;) Daw= n From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 720 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12403 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 18:14:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 18:14:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m18.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.208) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 18:14:55 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.cd3.d2bf133 (43932) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:12:08 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174414328" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for fic to read... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=rQZoLHP_0eVoWPXT4qrlMcIRYUnUtyUt6jrOh8A7eON1iPFNvZfd X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174414328 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/2007 12:56:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, anarchy@gmail.com writes: I'm looking for some reading material of the Arda-verse persuasion to keep me occupied during a train journey to London this weekend. I seem to have run out of things to read - from the usual sources anyway, like HASA, ff.net and SoA. Hey, Klose, I am within a hair's breadth of finishing my first draft of the next chapter of the my latest Maedhros/Fingon piece... If you would be interested, I could send you the draft chapter before the weekend. (You should feel comfortable saying "no" because it will not be entirely finished and you will have the opportunity to read the finished piece in the future and I know it gets tiresome reading the same piece in various permutations over and over. But, I have very much appreciated you as a sounding board.) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174414328 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/20/2007 12:56:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, anarchy@gmail.com wri= tes:
I'm looking for some reading mater= ial of the Arda-verse persuasion to
keep me occupied during a train j= ourney to London this weekend. I seem
to have run out of things to re= ad - from the usual sources anyway,
like HASA, ff.net and SoA.
Hey, Klose, I am within a hair's = breadth of finishing my first draft of the next chapter of the my latest M= aedhros/Fingon piece... If you would be interested, I could send you the d= raft chapter before the weekend. (You should feel comfortable sa= ying "no" because it will not be entirely finished and you will have the o= pportunity to read the finished piece in the future and I know it&nbs= p;gets tiresome reading the same piece in various permutations over and ov= er. But, I have very much appreciated you as a sounding board.)



AOL now offers free email to every= one. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
<= /HTML> -------------------------------1174414328-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 721 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26750 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 18:49:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 18:49:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 18:49:19 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.d44.45c4d1b (43932) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:31:32 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174415492" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mea... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=fNVpgtNpWrnP4dx3pV_OUqqYlLzjxDY0-vNljDrLOkJPbUXZTWJp X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174415492 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are too nice to me, Dawn! I just hope I don't write and write and then decide in a few months, that it couldn't have possibly happended the way I wrote it. That is always the danger when writing something down without spending years working it up! ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174415492 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
You are too nice = to me, Dawn! I just hope I don't write and write and then decide in a few = months, that it couldn't have possibly happended the way I wrote it. That = is always the danger when writing something down without spending years wo= rking it up!



AOL now off= ers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com= .
-------------------------------1174415492-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 722 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96056 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 19:28:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 19:28:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 19:28:09 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (unknown [193.17.41.142]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id B62452302C7 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:16:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A92F62809F for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:52:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:52:45 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:52:47 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1397623297.20070320195247@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund Resent-From: sirielle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-Id: <20070320185245.7A92F62809F@poczta.o2.pl> Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:52:45 +0100 (CET) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: sirielle From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Torturing, Rescuing, & otherwise being mea... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=jhGTeoLvhrVaoBR6CH4Kly1UL_t7L5hG-zqdyg5HA9vZO35v-JU X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, > and I don't have to wait ten years for it. ;) Maybe we need to make a group conspiracy and write a few really interesting stories which you'll be able to read after ten years, then? just to have some balance between us ;P Joking, of course! Mails from yahoo groups and your own e-mail used to go to my spam folder at my e-mail server level, but I'm checking it often and finally the while list seems to work, for I've received a lot of letters from the list (80 or more since the first question about scars; though I had no time to read them, yet) and I see none in the spam system. So I guess it's not my e-mail bouncing messages. Only some messages get here in wrong order from time to time. Regards to all Silmarillion freaks ;D Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 723 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81613 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 19:56:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 19:56:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.125) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 19:56:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 24515 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Mar 2007 19:56:24 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: RltJgYgVM1l0Eyzj3xVB3mbzimR.zh61itDJGHBLCMvvD1TgQDG7Bi7EM56pttEsvQSGDuho_O9nzjFx8zucg0BadHnRHhk_HAHiia5OCvXZqfHdfW7meL2rZVOY4xTZzuz9kBnE4Z1oSmh2kAp2YR_NuQ-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:56:24 PDT Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:56:24 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1857898168-1174420584=:21706" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <586657.21706.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=pD3-jHbfwir4M7ZaGvDx9pbDgAvbJh65h4vF8IStb0TjzAsPShsyjt4 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1857898168-1174420584=:21706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> From HoMe XII, "The Shibboleth of Feanor," this is said about Elenwe: >From this passage, it is obvious to infer that Elenwe was, in fact, eaten by a bunch of carnivorous sea turtles. *crickets chirp* ...What? ;-) *stops being cheeky* Interestingly, the passage still doesn't quite say how she died, aside from in the water and under ice. But was it the cold of the water that killed her? Did she drown? Break her neck when the ice crashed down? ~T�rion --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. --0-1857898168-1174420584=:21706 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> From HoMe XII, "The Shibboleth of Feanor," this is said about Elenwe:

From this passage, it is obvious to infer that Elenwe was, in fact, eaten by a bunch of carnivorous sea turtles.

*crickets chirp*

...What? ;-)

*stops being cheeky*

Interestingly, the passage still doesn't quite say how she died, aside from in the water and under ice. But was it the cold of the water that killed her? Did she drown? Break her neck when the ice crashed down?


~T�rion

Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
always stay connected to friends. --0-1857898168-1174420584=:21706-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 724 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95988 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 20:05:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 20:05:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 20:05:07 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.cf5.8e10faf (43932) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:04:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:04:33 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174421073" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=8H0X6yt9Z6SfntkSq-EerqUl5Cv022mwzq77FRlLWSya06evhpM6 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174421073 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From this passage, it is obvious to infer that Elenwe was, in fact, eaten by a bunch of carnivorous sea turtles. Amen! this is some interesting stuff. I was always partial to the idea that falling ice broke her pretty neck, but this is good. And no way can the canatics prove you wrong! (Just please don't joke about Fingon being trampled into the bloody mire--that's where I draw the line.) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174421073 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
From this passage, it is obvious to infer that Elenwe was, in fact, eaten = by a bunch of carnivorous sea turtles.
 
Amen! this is some interesting stuff. I was always partial to the idea = that falling ice broke her pretty neck, but this is good. And no way can t= he canatics prove you wrong! (Just please don't joke about Fingon being tr= ampled into the bloody mire--that's where I draw the line.)
<= DIV>

 =



AOL now offers free ema= il to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------------------------1174421073-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 725 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36544 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 22:08:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 22:08:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 22:08:44 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E79BA6280AE for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:08:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:08:36 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:08:38 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1318238275.20070320230838@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=YnCkhxnDrDfApDIIcgHAtyLlOTLcWNlsMuT-hoIex5xXAmGRKbw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, > And no way can the canatics prove you wrong! They can't prove it any way for there's no other info on that. She died underwater, under ice, that's all we know. The rest is author's imagination, make it believable and stay in Helcaraxe reality, all should be fine. In my verse there are evil forces in Helcaraxe who make Fingolfin's host march harder, who break the ice under Noldor's feet, make them circle around in blizzards etc. Independent neutral forces who just hate these invaders. I guess I was inspired by the "The Ice" by Itarille a bit, ice itself is hostile there if I remember well, but my vision is more fantasy - the evil gods of the North hating life ;) > (Just please don't joke about Fingon being trampled into the bloody mire--that's where I > draw the line.) Joke? Isn't it what really happened to him? Brutal reality, nothing funny and apart AU ideas there is no way to save him :( Wait, no there is a reasonable explanation which saved him without any mysterious intervention, don't want to spoil it, it's in "Morning Mist" by Ramlatch, which I like for it's mysterious mood first. That would be recommendation for the person who asked for a story to read on a train, too. http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter_view.cfm?STID=4117&SPOrdinal=1 Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 726 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93030 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 22:30:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 22:30:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 22:29:59 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id r.cb8.db96ad5 (43932) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:25:44 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174429544" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for dis... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=QRGEzTN_z89zddR5ZxCEK0V9YJS5ATI6Bfvho7FaNAR_aREVFeNE X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174429544 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/2007 5:09:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: "Morning Mist" by Ramlatch, which I like for it's mysterious mood first. That would be recommendation for the person who asked for a story to read on a train, too. _http://www.henneth-http://wwwhttp://www.hennehttp://wwhttp://ww&SPOrd_ (http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter_view.cfm?STID=4117&SPOrdinal=1) Sirielle Thanks so much, Sirielle! That is really a lovely story. Oshun ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174429544 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/20/2007 5:09:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl write= s:
"Morning Mist" by Ramlatch, which I<= BR>like for it's mysterious mood first. That would be recommendation for=
the person who asked for a story to read on a train, too.

http://www.henneth-annun.net/= stories/chapter_view.cfm?STID=3D4117&SPOrdinal=3D1

Sirielle

Thanks so much, Sirielle! That is really a lovely story.
 = ;
Oshun



AOL n= ow offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL= at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174429544-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 727 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63258 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2007 20:21:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2007 20:21:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.32) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2007 20:21:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 70325 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2007 20:21:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20070321202140.70323.qmail@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: b0u9iI4VM1kRpQQ7piU50rN.e2cf.3wlnlq6ahXE8MtXYR8zY5Wl4uKs6bRzB3lUtGuuUlozDBK83FCROPYpkJWuH.DW05suIRD9PBmI8aGldaYDy3BX6WNohBC_m0ljLSvleRWIXPwWRlU- Received: from [206.251.8.147] by web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:21:40 GMT Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:21:40 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1504480602-1174508500=:70304" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=WcvkZCOgg1SaBwJoIiGCiPHxDB9zcdFQ3vuBg9wYh_5613ZDWRul --0-1504480602-1174508500=:70304 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So... Now we're left to decide if that's to specify how she died or if that's talking about her burial... *eg* And now I have this mental image of someone crossing the Helcaraxe in the Second Age or so and finding Elenwe's body encased in ice, still as beautiful as it would have been when she was alive... And I'll bet that her's wasn't the only body to end up like that... The Helcaraxe could easily have been the First/Second Age equivalent of the Third/Fourth Age Dead Marshes... Cel Helyanwe Dawn Felagund wrote: From HoMe XII, "The Shibboleth of Feanor," this is said about Elenwe: Irisse who went ever with the people of Turgon was called Ireth,(39) by substitution of Sindarin -eth (< -itta) frequent in feminine names for Quenya -isse. Elenwe her mother had no Sindarin name, for she never reached Beleriand. She perished in the crossing of the Ice; and Turgon was thereafter unappeasable in his enmity for Feanor and his sons. He had himself come near to death in the bitter waters when he attempted to save her and his daughter Itaril, whom the breaking of treacherous ice had cast into the cruel sea. Itaril he saved;(40) but the body of Elenwe was covered in fallen ice. Hope that helps! :) Dawn --------------------------------- Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. --0-1504480602-1174508500=:70304 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So...  Now we're left to decide if that's to specify how she died or if that's talking about her burial... *eg* And now I have this mental image of someone crossing the Helcaraxe in the Second Age or so and finding Elenwe's body encased in ice, still as beautiful as it would have been when she was alive...  And I'll bet that her's wasn't the only body to end up like that...  The Helcaraxe could easily have been the First/Second Age equivalent of the Third/Fourth Age Dead Marshes...

Cel Helyanwe

Dawn Felagund wrote:
From HoMe XII, "The Shibboleth of Feanor," this is said about Elenwe:

Irisse who went ever with the people of Turgon was called Ireth,(39)
by substitution of Sindarin -eth (< -itta) frequent in feminine
names for Quenya -isse. Elenwe her mother had no Sindarin name, for
she never reached Beleriand. She perished in the crossing of the
Ice; and Turgon was thereafter unappeasable in his enmity for Feanor
and his sons. He had himself come near to death in the bitter waters
when he attempted to save her and his daughter Itaril, whom the
breaking of treacherous ice had cast into the cruel sea. Itaril he
saved;(40) but the body of Elenwe was covered in fallen ice.

Hope that helps! :)
Dawn


Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. --0-1504480602-1174508500=:70304-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 728 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87184 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2007 21:42:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2007 21:42:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.127) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2007 21:42:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 25504 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2007 21:42:20 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: SP9y7d8VM1njzC6HfO8nLsfF_L68AJTnj0Bco1dMqR6hbOsuc32kUjVC0EWJLE_56Q-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:42:20 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:42:20 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070321202140.70323.qmail@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-579076602-1174513340=:20192" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <29402.20192.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=inswC5v5KNvh4P-hnFMJDicq-3D4KMVRWVfC6XMXBvxtsjL41e017G4 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-579076602-1174513340=:20192 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Another thing I thought of: In my mind at least, Elenwe must've died nearer to the end of the trek across the Helcaraxe as opposed to the beginning, seeing as her genius husband decided to jump in the water after her and lived. A human can catch hypothermia at 55 F/ 13 C. Let's say that the Helcaraxe is the approximate equivalent of what was the Bering Strait (we won't even get into the effects of global warming!). Right now in Hooper Bay, Alaska, it is a nice 9 F/ -13 C. Wind chill brings that down to -10 F/ -23 C. Animals & humans (& elves, I would guess/in my opinion) do not handle being cold AND wet very well. Now, we don't know for certain *how much* more tolerant Elves are of cold compared to humans, but we know that they *are* susceptible to it. And for me, I'd have to suspend too much disbelief to accept that Turgon managed to survive the long, arduous journey across the ice after being wet. Just my thoughts though. Tarion Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: Dawn Felagund wrote: He had himself come near to death in the bitter waters when he attempted to save her and his daughter Itaril, whom the breaking of treacherous ice had cast into the cruel sea. ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --0-579076602-1174513340=:20192 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Another thing I thought of:
In my mind at least, Elenwe must've died nearer to the end of the trek across the Helcaraxe as opposed to the beginning, seeing as her genius husband decided to jump in the water after her and lived. A human can catch hypothermia at 55 F/ 13 C. Let's say that the Helcaraxe is the approximate equivalent of what was the Bering Strait (we won't even get into the effects of global warming!). Right now in Hooper Bay, Alaska, it is a nice 9 F/ -13 C. Wind chill brings that down to -10 F/ -23 C. Animals & humans (& elves, I would guess/in my opinion) do not handle being cold AND wet very well. Now, we don't know for certain *how much* more tolerant Elves are of cold compared to humans, but we know that they *are* susceptible to it. And for me, I'd have to suspend too much disbelief to accept that Turgon managed to survive the long, arduous journey across the ice after being wet.

Just my thoughts though.

Tarion

Celebrian Helyanwe wrote:
Dawn Felagund comcast.net> wrote:
He had himself come near to death in the bitter waters
when he attempted to save her and his daughter Itaril, whom the
breaking of treacherous ice had cast into the cruel sea.



~T�rion

Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --0-579076602-1174513340=:20192-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 729 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46468 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2007 23:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2007 23:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.35) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2007 23:14:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 17856 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2007 23:14:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: rvlyde8VM1k7lGp0bD2JIfoSOrL8zlJKor.21Y75vZiFlmWcNBOkBHs3OCGBT9uPi_r0djw097JKOdNPWQc9aoqcFKhOTyclLL_S0XX9qbK4aRP6Z5yGl5pfMGw394RPWa4GzdyN5es1pYmXsF5A6ZqG3w-- Received: from [206.251.9.39] by web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:14:16 GMT Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:14:16 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <29402.20192.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-813799808-1174518856=:16501" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <512073.16501.qm@web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=wu_DU44vuIp0nhp7gcUSWO028WnwfhmRM-Ck8LyEPZ5NqPL-b7NV --0-813799808-1174518856=:16501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good point. And I can't picture them building a fire to warm him or Idril on the Helcaraxe. Not only did they not have the firewood, it would have made the already treacherous ice even more dangerous. Unless he had a change of clothes... I'll bet it happened something like the last day of the trek. Cel Helyanwe Tarion Anarore wrote: Another thing I thought of: In my mind at least, Elenwe must've died nearer to the end of the trek across the Helcaraxe as opposed to the beginning, seeing as her genius husband decided to jump in the water after her and lived. A human can catch hypothermia at 55 F/ 13 C. Let's say that the Helcaraxe is the approximate equivalent of what was the Bering Strait (we won't even get into the effects of global warming!). Right now in Hooper Bay, Alaska, it is a nice 9 F/ -13 C. Wind chill brings that down to -10 F/ -23 C. Animals & humans (& elves, I would guess/in my opinion) do not handle being cold AND wet very well. Now, we don't know for certain *how much* more tolerant Elves are of cold compared to humans, but we know that they *are* susceptible to it. And for me, I'd have to suspend too much disbelief to accept that Turgon managed to survive the long, arduous journey across the ice after being wet. Just my thoughts though. Tarion --------------------------------- Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail. --0-813799808-1174518856=:16501 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good point.  And I can't picture them building a fire to warm him or Idril on the Helcaraxe.  Not only did they not have the firewood, it would have made the already treacherous ice even more dangerous.  Unless he had a change of clothes...  I'll bet it happened something like the last day of the trek.

Cel Helyanwe

Tarion Anarore wrote:
Another thing I thought of:
In my mind at least, Elenwe must've died nearer to the end of the trek across the Helcaraxe as opposed to the beginning, seeing as her genius husband decided to jump in the water after her and lived. A human can catch hypothermia at 55 F/ 13 C. Let's say that the Helcaraxe is the approximate equivalent of what was the Bering Strait (we won't even get into the effects of global warming!). Right now in Hooper Bay, Alaska, it is a nice 9 F/ -13 C. Wind chill brings that down to -10 F/ -23 C. Animals & humans (& elves, I would guess/in my opinion) do not handle being cold AND wet very well. Now, we don't know for certain *how much* more tolerant Elves are of cold compared to humans, but we know that they *are* susceptible to it. And for me, I'd have to suspend too much disbelief to accept that Turgon managed to survive the long, arduous journey across the ice after being wet.

Just my thoughts though.

Tarion


Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail. --0-813799808-1174518856=:16501-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 730 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12308 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2007 23:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2007 23:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2007 23:19:39 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.d31.6b6ed4d (43932) for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:18:50 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174519130" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=lhH3HC2Sg0iBw964LxOJWiEzvdqJaycvx3i888UEGxNSuv-4MNlS X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174519130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmm. Wonder if they could build igloos and have fires inside? Pretty grim even for elves. Did they have any horses or were those all on the ships with the Feanorians? Oshun ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174519130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Hmmm. Wonder if&n= bsp;they could build igloos and have fires inside? Pretty grim even for el= ves. Did they have any horses or were those all on the ships with the Fean= orians?
 
Oshun



 -------------------------------1174519130-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 731 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92599 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2007 23:24:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2007 23:24:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.35) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2007 23:24:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 21211 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2007 23:24:44 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 3.D6pJwVM1kTAq.hm18HgSv3KI28BpweUy3kHnc8eqDT9lkJS_wX0MdVCwm5AAw5lGBnKtrYok5vFOLq06_lCLaKLfjegvGWMY95qIqCwk3GIdFyDJXMDgiIIloaETjsJCSJUNElas_K8zst9cHvq9H69A-- Received: from [206.251.9.39] by web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:24:44 GMT Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:24:44 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-96196244-1174519484=:21043" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <655643.21043.qm@web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=338ilN27gtbSIAnrPy8whudLchbwzTaFsRljmz0kU06ExMcncGUm --0-96196244-1174519484=:21043 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: Hmmm. Wonder if they could build igloos and have fires inside? Pretty grim even for elves. Did they have any horses or were those all on the ships with the Feanorians? New Members 21 New Files Visit Your Group SPONSORED LINKS Online creative writing course Creative writing course Creative writing class Creative writing school Creative writing online Apprentice LA Who will be next? Play the Bix.com faceoff to see! Yahoo! Movies What's Hot Now Check out the top rated movies. Yahoo! News World News Get the latest world news now . --------------------------------- Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy and free. Do it now... --0-96196244-1174519484=:21043 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
Hmmm. Wonder if they could build igloos and have fires inside? Pretty grim even for elves. Did they have any horses or were those all on the ships with the Feanorians?
 
  
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Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy and free. Do it now... --0-96196244-1174519484=:21043-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 732 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96343 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2007 23:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2007 23:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53007.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.37) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2007 23:27:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 12292 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2007 23:27:00 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: UMKsJ9UVM1k1LQvuE84F9CRToGNFn43O38P2CMZ.WY0yT_JFEAFsuSE9rRj2vQ51CV1klLpY2aSIaDjJMvsVdBbJOpQnFFC7yS9Y2Onj9yEoW7EOu1K1vgPrlNr786Y4R0RSFagwDX6AIbA- Received: from [206.251.9.39] by web53007.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:27:00 GMT Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:27:00 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1976948906-1174519620=:11914" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <165301.11914.qm@web53007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=obbWv82Lk2gYPKESPAzIKGx28cps38eVjr991NUusNbzA_Y3itil --0-1976948906-1174519620=:11914 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hmm... Perhaps... I don't think the horses would have made it over the Helcaraxe. I seriously don't see any way for that to have happened. The footing would have been far too treacherous. Cel Helyanwe heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: Hmmm. Wonder if they could build igloos and have fires inside? Pretty grim even for elves. Did they have any horses or were those all on the ships with the Feanorians? Oshun --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-1976948906-1174519620=:11914 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hmm...  Perhaps...  I don't think the horses would have made it over the Helcaraxe.  I seriously don't see any way for that to have happened.  The footing would have been far too treacherous.

Cel Helyanwe

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
Hmmm. Wonder if they could build igloos and have fires inside? Pretty grim even for elves. Did they have any horses or were those all on the ships with the Feanorians?
 
Oshun



New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-1976948906-1174519620=:11914-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 733 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10860 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2007 23:47:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2007 23:47:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.121) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2007 23:47:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 26810 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2007 23:47:11 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: j5Y42rcVM1k1Y1fX0ukFz0.Ilrr4Ha_MgnHy0uUhyqhMbN_5RmlBojDjJO4ISPvYwW69oCgTRkMrbVQ1Ls3ejTg5AX..NISkPR_9a9u0dtP1WwXEPZLCZqhS9lRqPHGDTb1I.3ml6mFnTe4- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:47:11 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:47:11 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2099037099-1174520831=:25559" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <834151.25559.qm@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=09WPaz01vjw7dWKUf7zGYE4dOgSMW1mzGGa3PXbNrsTmprZlggAWOUI X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-2099037099-1174520831=:25559 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Seems like it'd be a lot of work to build igloos, and I seriously doubt that they could have lit fires in the high wind. Plus, with that cold, warming up every so often would likely be worse in some ways than being constantly cold. So far as I know, all the horses were on the ships. And as Cel said, their horses - at least the majority of them - would probably die, especially since, where an Elf could slip and break an ankle and still survive, a horse could not. Tarion heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: Hmmm. Wonder if they could build igloos and have fires inside? Pretty grim even for elves. Did they have any horses or were those all on the ships with the Feanorians? Oshun ~T�rion --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --0-2099037099-1174520831=:25559 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Seems like it'd be a lot of work to build igloos, and I seriously doubt that they could have lit fires in the high wind. Plus, with that cold, warming up every so often would likely be worse in some ways than being constantly cold.

So far as I know, all the horses were on the ships. And as Cel said, their horses - at least the majority of them - would probably die, especially since, where an Elf could slip and break an ankle and still survive, a horse could not.

Tarion

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
Hmmm. Wonder if they could build igloos and have fires inside? Pretty grim even for elves. Did they have any horses or were those all on the ships with the Feanorians?
 
Oshun



~T�rion

Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --0-2099037099-1174520831=:25559-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 734 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33743 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 00:03:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 00:03:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.127) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 00:03:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 26057 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2007 00:01:52 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ZZJSK9gVM1k73bivZ69o9.T6lc3B1EkjtOWbmC5E4PnuoAnOLw1DlUnnGcwpQiEcqkPcJGJpTnvMu9xqKsHYrJ3G9XEIhSCk1k7.cgkSgBCW9ojHM190B_q1pwhkTj1s6tcDZqVIMKMvR5M5Dz3sOIk2nQ-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:01:52 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:01:52 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <512073.16501.qm@web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1257672-1174521712=:22557" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <513639.22557.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=iYjklLiaaTVvgzdhTbOHMxUVZyXylQ0RJy0clrlpu3OqhRM596jZDH4 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1257672-1174521712=:22557 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I'll bet it happened something like the last day of the trek. Haha, yeah really....That would explain the Xtreme bitterness too... ~T�rion --------------------------------- Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. --0-1257672-1174521712=:22557 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I'll bet it happened something like the last day of the trek.

Haha, yeah really....That would explain the Xtreme bitterness too...


~T�rion

Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. --0-1257672-1174521712=:22557-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 735 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52670 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 00:11:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 00:11:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.40) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 00:11:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 15659 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2007 00:10:53 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: PnabJEUVM1mVF_oWaiEGiIi6.ecI4CqbcG8am9Qw8zs1hlqjl9Dx4peoWNt3uVi2P8B7k_yhZ9Ly03UGnpWoDNC6wsM2guXw3nhiUYrK54uQbxr6F0AI6I1eOQJkN2JNu.u79dnMBKuMVg-- Received: from [206.251.9.39] by web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:10:53 GMT Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:10:53 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <513639.22557.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1883290195-1174522253=:15378" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <787624.15378.qm@web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=a0cYDnY6ZznCXbExCAmVbkWnfEmXIGrmINjFRaIy0e9mRCK-row0 --0-1883290195-1174522253=:15378 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *rolls eyes* I meant that Elenwe's death and Turgon's swim took place on the last day. Not that no one died until the last day! ;-P And I have a feeling that other people dove in after loved ones only to die of hypothermia a short time later. Cel Helyanwe Tarion Anarore wrote: >>I'll bet it happened something like the last day of the trek. Haha, yeah really....That would explain the Xtreme bitterness too... ~T�rion --------------------------------- Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-1883290195-1174522253=:15378 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *rolls eyes* I meant that Elenwe's death and Turgon's swim took place on the last day.  Not that no one died until the last day! ;-P And I have a feeling that other people dove in after loved ones only to die of hypothermia a short time later.

Cel Helyanwe

Tarion Anarore wrote:
>>I'll bet it happened something like the last day of the trek.

Haha, yeah really....That would explain the Xtreme bitterness too...


~T�rion
Never miss an email again!
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New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-1883290195-1174522253=:15378-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 736 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90867 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 01:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 01:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc15.comcast.net) (204.127.225.95) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 01:25:27 -0000 Received: from amailcenter09.comcast.net ([204.127.225.109]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070322004211b1500ccdpae>; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:42:11 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter09.comcast.net; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:42:10 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:42:10 +0000 Message-Id: <032220070042.13088.4601D0E2000912340000332022155751140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=9SDkDh4i2pHQqTA-YXWtjEnJv6fOfZZcNuXBz9R5Y4QZtHmSNvJr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund I think it's actually quite possible that _someone_ crossing the Ice had an extra change of clothes. Possibly, everyone did. They were migrating to a new land, and even if The Silm does give the feeling that they all sort of decided to leave pretty much in the instant that Feanor gave his speech on the palace steps, it's always been my personal belief that people probably got supplies and affairs in order before they left, even if only a few hours or days were spared. Which for an immortal Elf is probably next to instantaneously (especially if they walk as slowly as they do in the LotR movies. ;) Feanor says, "Journey light: but bring with you your swords!" which implies to me that he expected people to return to their homes to gather a few essentials before leaving Tirion with him. And Finrod brought with him gobs of treasure ... enough to pay off the Dwarves who helped him to build Nargothrond. And so it seems logical to me that they would have also packed a change or two of clothing and so Turgon could have been put into this, though I don't doubt that he suffered and that his circumstances were dangerous. Also, they were planning on traveling a long distance: They probably would have also had blankets, bedrolls, and possibly even tents or other temporary structures that could have been used to aid those who fell through the Ice but did not perish, like Turgon. Just one person's take on the issue, of course. :) On horses, I think it's pretty safe to say that Fingolfin's people did _not_ have horses. Besides Tarion's point about horses being very unstable on ice (and at one point, the Helcaraxe is described as "hills of ice" ... I think that riding a horse on a hill of soil and rock is scary enough without it being icy! :^D), mention is made in "Of Beleriand and Its Realms" that Maedhros gave horses to Fingolfin in reparation for his losses: "Of those horses many of the sires came from Valinor, and they were given to Fingolfin by Maedhros in atonement of his losses, for they had been carried by ship to Losgar." Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 737 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50275 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 01:35:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 01:35:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.124) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 01:35:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 58676 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2007 01:35:24 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: tGdBbcMVM1keP6EMESyAKD_.03gCZc6rVjbPtqf4KPX5xHIm5c_As9CSHRUIp0sDbw-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:35:24 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:35:24 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <787624.15378.qm@web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-597397943-1174527324=:57847" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <13397.57847.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=HBdOHqSFRmdDEOKDdyqnyFPFLMCLmymWQGV8RaucpGR5QFBydnceX3o X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-597397943-1174527324=:57847 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Haha, no, I knew you didn't mean that *no one* died until the last day. No one dying until the last day would just be...well, unbelievable really. After all, it's freezing, there's a limited amount of food, grief...the whole nine yards, as they say. Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: *rolls eyes* I meant that Elenwe's death and Turgon's swim took place on the last day. Not that no one died until the last day! ;-P And I have a feeling that other people dove in after loved ones only to die of hypothermia a short time later. Cel Helyanwe ~T�rion --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. --0-597397943-1174527324=:57847 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Haha, no, I knew you didn't mean that *no one* died until the last day. No one dying until the last day would just be...well, unbelievable really. After all, it's freezing, there's a limited amount of food, grief...the whole nine yards, as they say.

Celebrian Helyanwe wrote:
*rolls eyes* I meant that Elenwe's death and Turgon's swim took place on the last day.  Not that no one died until the last day! ;-P And I have a feeling that other people dove in after loved ones only to die of hypothermia a short time later.

Cel Helyanwe



~T�rion

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. --0-597397943-1174527324=:57847-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 738 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54078 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 01:39:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 01:39:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 01:39:46 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.d54.4d3a5f2 (43932) for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 21:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 21:39:09 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174527549" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=tFDNE29bsGUn3AwyrUAYh0VXw-GCjNaUbZYJDJ5xL5Wo6p93NV5Z X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174527549 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "(especially if they walk as slowly as they do in the LotR movies.)" I got a good laugh out of this comment, Dawn! ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174527549 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
"(especially if t= hey walk as slowly as they do in the LotR movies.)"
 
=
I got a good laugh out of this comment, Dawn!


AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find o= ut more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174527549-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 739 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99405 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 02:01:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 02:01:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.120) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 02:01:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 77262 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2007 02:01:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: eFSKBlwVM1lt0aBVLA_pV8_zOPlD0qHjWxkBL.ajMG2edVQbdntk2NsT8M6ri4PErsJVPJI4Ijl9A.ErT6uBFNps2DcQHjeAsyGkkdnhi51ciW__aslPGmCvsHUvYX8x7VH4Dr5_FDuiGIHGw2eChFPTwQ-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:01:54 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:01:54 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <032220070042.13088.4601D0E2000912340000332022155751140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-10147311-1174528914=:70714" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <439630.70714.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=-L8MV6VBGkC0brLypAqVBLpKeSr_Av5J9GNPW_PFArPkkvrM1ZVzmS8 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-10147311-1174528914=:70714 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ah, but did anyone have a hair dryer?? ;-P No really, my hair takes *hours* to dry. Even with dry clothes, his hair would still be wet (well, it'd probably be ice after a few minutes!). Big problem. And I think it's safe to say that no one had a hair dryer for multiple reasons. ;-) And considering how *I* imagine the Helcaraxe at least, it would still be very difficult to warm back up, even with some dry clothes and a couple of blankets. My take on supplies is that well, the didn't plan ahead *that* well. I am sort of under the impression that they weren't exactly planning on crossing the Grinding Ice. The Sil even says it was even deemed impassable. Plus, if you go with the idea that Valinor is like sunny California and has mild temperatures year round, the majority of people probably were ill-prepared for the freezing cold of the Helcaraxe. It seems that Feanor was pretty much counting on the aid of the Teleri. "Ok, we'll go down to Alqualonde, book one-way tickets to Middle-Earth, and off we go!" So even having tents could be subject to debate. If it's nice and warm between Tirion and Alqualonde, it's possible the Elves would just opt to sleep under the stars. Also, if you believe that the I'm-going-to-go-swimming! thing happened toward the end of the trek (like I do), then tents might have been abandoned as people got weary, since (again, how I imagine the Grinding Ice) tents maybe didn't provide as much shelter from the elements as thought, and because they would be rather heavy and cumbersome to carry. I'd imagine that clothing and food would be seen as more important, and would be the last things a person would abandon on the wayside. I don't doubt that they had some clothing and supplies. But I think that 1) they were planning on a much easier trip, so were not well equipped for a really long haul, especially a long haul across miles of glaciers, and 2) they had absolutely no idea what they would face. How can you plan for something you've never faced or perhaps even dreamed of facing? Even people well equipped for a nice camp-out in a blizzard still lose the battle with good ol' mother nature, and end up freezing to death. As for Finrod and his, uh, treasure...I've wondered about that. I eventually just chalked it up to Finrod being Not-So-Bright. Or maybe he was the only one of the Noldor to have one of those rolly suitcases. ;-P More than my 2 copper coins, probably. ;-) Tarion DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: I think it's actually quite possible that _someone_ crossing the Ice had an extra change of clothes. Possibly, everyone did. They were migrating to a new land, and even if The Silm does give the feeling that they all sort of decided to leave pretty much in the instant that Feanor gave his speech on the palace steps, it's always been my personal belief that people probably got supplies and affairs in order before they left, even if only a few hours or days were spared. Which for an immortal Elf is probably next to instantaneously (especially if they walk as slowly as they do in the LotR movies. ;) Feanor says, "Journey light: but bring with you your swords!" which implies to me that he expected people to return to their homes to gather a few essentials before leaving Tirion with him. And Finrod brought with him gobs of treasure ... enough to pay off the Dwarves who helped him to build Nargothrond. And so it seems logical to me that they would have also packed a change or two of clothing and so Turgon could have been put into this, though I don't doubt that he suffered and that his circumstances were dangerous. Also, they were planning on traveling a long distance: They probably would have also had blankets, bedrolls, and possibly even tents or other temporary structures that could have been used to aid those who fell through the Ice but did not perish, like Turgon. ~T�rion --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. --0-10147311-1174528914=:70714 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ah, but did anyone have a hair dryer?? ;-P

No really, my hair takes *hours* to dry. Even with dry clothes, his hair would still be wet (well, it'd probably be ice after a few minutes!). Big problem. And I think it's safe to say that no one had a hair dryer for multiple reasons. ;-) And considering how *I* imagine the Helcaraxe at least, it would still be very difficult to warm back up, even with some dry clothes and a couple of blankets.

My take on supplies is that well, the didn't plan ahead *that* well. I am sort of under the impression that they weren't exactly planning on crossing the Grinding Ice. The Sil even says it was even deemed impassable. Plus, if you go with the idea that Valinor is like sunny California and has mild temperatures year round, the majority of people probably were ill-prepared for the freezing cold of the Helcaraxe. It seems that Feanor was pretty much counting on the aid of the Teleri. "Ok, we'll go down to Alqualonde, book one-way tickets to Middle-Earth, and off we go!" So even having tents could be subject to debate. If it's nice and warm between Tirion and Alqualonde, it's possible the Elves would just opt to sleep under the stars. Also, if you believe that the I'm-going-to-go-swimming! thing happened toward the end of the trek (like I do), then tents might have been abandoned as people got weary, since (again, how I imagine the Grinding Ice) tents maybe didn't provide as much shelter from the elements as thought, and because they would be rather heavy and cumbersome to carry. I'd imagine that clothing and food would be seen as more important, and would be the last things a person would abandon on the wayside.

I don't doubt that they had some clothing and supplies. But I think that 1) they were planning on a much easier trip, so were not well equipped for a really long haul, especially a long haul across miles of glaciers, and 2) they had absolutely no idea what they would face. How can you plan for something you've never faced or perhaps even dreamed of facing? Even people well equipped for a nice camp-out in a blizzard still lose the battle with good ol' mother nature, and end up freezing to death.

As for Finrod and his, uh, treasure...I've wondered about that. I eventually just chalked it up to Finrod being Not-So-Bright. Or maybe he was the only one of the Noldor to have one of those rolly suitcases. ;-P

More than my 2 copper coins, probably. ;-)

Tarion

DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote:
I think it's actually quite possible that _someone_ crossing the Ice had an extra change of clothes. Possibly, everyone did. They were migrating to a new land, and even if The Silm does give the feeling that they all sort of decided to leave pretty much in the instant that Feanor gave his speech on the palace steps, it's always been my personal belief that people probably got supplies and affairs in order before they left, even if only a few hours or days were spared. Which for an immortal Elf is probably next to instantaneously (especially if they walk as slowly as they do in the LotR movies. ;)

Feanor says, "Journey light: but bring with you your swords!" which implies to me that he expected people to return to their homes to gather a few essentials before leaving Tirion with him. And Finrod brought with him gobs of treasure ... enough to pay off the Dwarves who helped him to build Nargothrond. And so it seems logical to me that they would have also packed a change or two of clothing and so Turgon could have been put into this, though I don't doubt that he suffered and that his circumstances were dangerous. Also, they were planning on traveling a long distance: They probably would have also had blankets, bedrolls, and possibly even tents or other temporary structures that could have been used to aid those who fell through the Ice but did not perish, like Turgon.




~T�rion

TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. --0-10147311-1174528914=:70714-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 740 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8415 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 02:06:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 02:06:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 02:06:50 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.bf5.fe09798 (43932) for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:05:34 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174529134" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=LBSjQtmAHCjST2IOMPd9CUKwxBUnB8WvvgmTI3aNCEo4IEf9waP7 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174529134 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/21/2007 9:02:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com writes: Ah, but did anyone have a hair dryer?? ;-P That's why the genre is called fantasy and not socialist realism or other schools of art or literature that I studied as a kid! LOL ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174529134 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/21/2007 9:02:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.c= om writes:
Ah, but did anyone have a ha= ir dryer?? ;-P
That's why t= he genre is called fantasy and not socialist realism or other schools of a= rt or literature that I studied as a kid! LOL



AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out mor= e about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------------------------1174529134-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 741 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7744 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 02:19:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 02:19:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.124) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 02:19:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 72814 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2007 02:19:03 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 9w9jIL0VM1l8N8I7ruCghLqaFKobg7z7EegeCMNfcTh.uJLEyDBb60tW7mROM.YUwg-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:19:03 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:19:03 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-161999215-1174529943=:72254" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <238786.72254.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=jI25Kx1pHeudnAyI7cbVTuuEVeGtNVVCNdYvxLHFRf4G8SHi-YFQiEQ X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-161999215-1174529943=:72254 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>That's why the genre is called fantasy and not socialist realism or other schools of art or literature that I studied as a kid! LOL Haha! And here I was thinking that the whole story was meant to illustrate the glory of socialism... I mean lookit the Valar. "Now Feanor, *everyone* has ownership rights on the Silmarils..." ;-P ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --0-161999215-1174529943=:72254 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>That's why the genre is called fantasy and not socialist realism or other schools of art or literature that I studied as a kid! LOL

Haha! And here I was thinking that the whole story was meant to illustrate the glory of socialism... I mean lookit the Valar. "Now Feanor, *everyone* has ownership rights on the Silmarils..." ;-P


~T�rion

Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --0-161999215-1174529943=:72254-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 742 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4881 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 09:01:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 09:01:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web58302.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.155) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 09:01:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 46032 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2007 09:01:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: PIsFVhUVM1myUnyz_w8bOsyZke1aVi9pyB_38bkFnEgY0B9uezN5n_f5uEgFWXjbu1ojc_aySX.M3NfSrI064wrRt6BUdHow4MEnxMfde_d2iZYcgRWDJp6WXRygPJuEHGeZV8hpurKUs6I- Received: from [71.235.106.34] by web58302.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:01:47 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 02:01:47 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <29402.20192.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1941300124-1174554107=:44137" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <462194.44137.qm@web58302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Niki S." Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=RckFf8F0b6Y3O5utVZtHhDGH42-nCHAX8WWwU8qiseEyoCVgdQ X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes --0-1941300124-1174554107=:44137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hmm, this makes me wonder--if Turgon was as bitter as he was towards the Feanoreans because Elenwe died, how would Fingolfin have changed if Turgon had died as well? (Or how much *did* the death of Elenwe and the near deaths of Turgon and Idril affect him (more than other peoples' deaths/near deaths on the journey affected him)?) -Pulsarkat Tarion Anarore wrote: Another thing I thought of: In my mind at least, Elenwe must've died nearer to the end of the trek across the Helcaraxe as opposed to the beginning, seeing as her genius husband decided to jump in the water after her and lived. A human can catch hypothermia at 55 F/ 13 C. Let's say that the Helcaraxe is the approximate equivalent of what was the Bering Strait (we won't even get into the effects of global warming!). Right now in Hooper Bay, Alaska, it is a nice 9 F/ -13 C. Wind chill brings that down to -10 F/ -23 C. Animals & humans (& elves, I would guess/in my opinion) do not handle being cold AND wet very well. Now, we don't know for certain *how much* more tolerant Elves are of cold compared to humans, but we know that they *are* susceptible to it. And for me, I'd have to suspend too much disbelief to accept that Turgon managed to survive the long, arduous journey across the ice after being wet. Just my thoughts though. Tarion Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: Dawn Felagund wrote: He had himself come near to death in the bitter waters when he attempted to save her and his daughter Itaril, whom the breaking of treacherous ice had cast into the cruel sea. ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. --0-1941300124-1174554107=:44137 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hmm, this makes me wonder--if Turgon was as bitter as he was towards the Feanoreans because Elenwe died, how would Fingolfin have changed if Turgon had died as well? (Or how much *did* the death of Elenwe and the near deaths of Turgon and Idril affect him (more than other peoples' deaths/near deaths on the journey affected him)?)

-Pulsarkat

Tarion Anarore wrote:
Another thing I thought of:
In my mind at least, Elenwe must've died nearer to the end of the trek across the Helcaraxe as opposed to the beginning, seeing as her genius husband decided to jump in the water after her and lived. A human can catch hypothermia at 55 F/ 13 C. Let's say that the Helcaraxe is the approximate equivalent of what was the Bering Strait (we won't even get into the effects of global warming!). Right now in Hooper Bay, Alaska, it is a nice 9 F/ -13 C. Wind chill brings that down to -10 F/ -23 C. Animals & humans (& elves, I would guess/in my opinion) do not handle being cold AND wet very well. Now, we don't know for certain *how much* more tolerant Elves are of cold compared to humans, but we know that they *are* susceptible to it. And for me, I'd have to suspend too much disbelief to accept that Turgon managed to survive the long, arduous journey across the ice after being wet.

Just my thoughts though.

Tarion

Celebrian Helyanwe yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Dawn Felagund comcast.net> wrote:
He had himself come near to death in the bitter waters
when he attempted to save her and his daughter Itaril, whom the
breaking of treacherous ice had cast into the cruel sea.



~T�rion
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with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. --0-1941300124-1174554107=:44137-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 743 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30693 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 10:21:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 10:21:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 10:21:00 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C8B62805C for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:20:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:20:27 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:20:31 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <575356617.20070322112031@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=lRB7jCfQVlFo6qZwlpT-IbiYxfus8NOCu4mLR2nh7pXe-DXRnEQ X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, > Hmmm. Wonder if=A0they could build igloos and have fires insid= e? > Pretty grim even for elves. Did they have any horses or were those > = all on the ships with the Feanorians? I think most of horses went with Fe= anorians, but these who went with Fingolfin - I guess they were eaten. Sad,= but true - elves had to eat, too and if there was no other prey they had t= o eat their horses, as people do during wars and harsh conditions. But we = can't rationalize it all - remember Tolkien's world is fantasy, not everyth= ing can be explained. Like Turgon being wet in freezing weather conditions.= Elf is more resistant than a human, how much more? To survive Helcaraxe an= d Thangorodrim? ;) Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 744 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72917 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 11:16:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 11:16:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 11:16:33 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0448158045 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:16:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:16:10 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:16:15 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <359101605.20070322121615@tlen.pl> To: Tarion Anarore In-Reply-To: <439630.70714.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <032220070042.13088.4601D0E2000912340000332022155751140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> <439630.70714.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=JzexrndEeFeQp6iyXuFla-zq3d48nEoj8OPA0a3WsXhQHwcSDro X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai T=E1rion, > No really, my hair takes *hours* to dry. Even with dry clot= hes, > his hair would still be wet (well, it'd probably be ice after a few = > minutes!). Good point, but I know some people walking outside with still= damp hair while there is minus outside and they survive it. I bet elves we= re all the time a bit frozen - hair, clothes, frozen tears on cheeks etc. = > And considering how *I* imagine the Helcaraxe at least, it would still be= very difficult to > warm back up, even with some dry clothes and a couple = of blankets. I guess it took them some years in Beleriand to warm up after= Helcaraxe. Impossible to warm on the ice; frozen bodies and minds just kee= p on walking, don't stop or you'll die. > I don't doubt that they had som= e clothing and supplies. But I > think that 1) they were planning on a much= easier trip, so were not > well equipped for a really long haul, especiall= y a long haul across > miles of glaciers, and As you said Valinor has got = warm climate, I see it that way, too. It's easy to imagine elves in light c= lothes and boots trying to survive the ice. Light shoes and dresses, the mo= st of them in Finarfin's host, good that they turned back ;) They were not= going abroad forever - maybe Feanor did, but not every one. They knew ther= e is no turning back after the prophecy of Mandos, but they packed bags bef= ore that knowing only Feanor's words about the sweet waters under the stars= etc. Elves were marching East to have a short war with Morgoth to avenge t= heir beloved king Finwe, some were counting on adventures, treasures and ki= ngdoms in sort of "happy lands" their ancestors abandoned cheated by Valar = - if we believe Feanor, of course. I doubt anyone except the oldest elves w= ho came from the East had any idea what way the eastern lands look like, ho= w dangerous they are. And I believe most of elves who came west after Orome= decided to stay in blessed realms knowing how dangerous life outside it is= . In my vision only younger generations of unprepared elves went after Fean= or, filled with might and life, hungry of adventures. No mature sanity on b= oard ;) They had no idea what does it mean to march, to have a war (and wit= h Vala!), to fight, what suffering and dying is. Alqualonde should open the= ir eyes on that, but didn't, I guess. > 2) they had absolutely no idea wha= t they would face. How can you plan for something you've never faced or > = perhaps even dreamed of facing? Even people well equipped for a nice camp-o= ut in a blizzard still lose the battle with good ol' mother > nature, and e= nd up freezing to death. Agree on that - they were not prepared. Some camp= equipment - maybe, but prepared rather for camping in Aman's wild woods th= an in Beleriand or Helcaraxe. It was not enough time to really think of it,= talk to the oldest, take a good advice from the Powers. They left in haste= , in shock after the Nightfall, we might say "on high" after the events and= hearing of the new possibilities, charmed by Feanor's words. I don't expec= t any mature decisions there and real preparations. So any Helcaraxe surviv= or is a miracle. They crossed only because it was sung in the music of Ainu= r ;) > As for Finrod and his, uh, treasure...I've wondered about that. I >= eventually just chalked it up to Finrod being Not-So-Bright. Or > maybe he= was the only one of the Noldor to have one of those rolly > suitcases. ;-P= House of Finarfin left in the end with the biggest luggage and many belo= ngings, I would see not only jewels there, but also fav cushions and sets o= f clothes, art pieces, toys. A lot of materials to burn on ice, if the temp= erature allowed to set any fire there. Well, my not well thought take on i= t, at least at the while, too many things disturb me right now - from TV an= d family to foreign language ;) Last thing is to count how much time it r= eally took them - 40 years of sun or only trees years which we would count = just as trees/starts years, without counting it in sun years which didn't e= xist then, yet. Every year of Sun / Trees/ Valian year would be subjectivel= y felt as a year, not 40 sun years or something. From some time I stopped c= ounting in the years of sun anything which happened before Sun appeared on = sky, so it took them less time and is more possible to happen, than the 40 = years in freezing cold. If you already discussed it, then I haven't red it= , yet, started reading the last part of letters only. Regards, Sirielle = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 745 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16967 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 11:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 11:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 11:38:27 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC1258021 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:38:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:38:25 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:38:29 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1364893954.20070322123829@tlen.pl> To: "Niki S." In-Reply-To: <462194.44137.qm@web58302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <29402.20192.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <462194.44137.qm@web58302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=o1ev5IALpF7nHIOtpEzWForDGhVk-F_4RpB568KVDfKcy7fM6bE X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Niki, > Hmm, this makes me wonder--if Turgon was as bitter as he was > towards the Feanoreans because Elenwe died, how would Fingolfin have > changed if Turgon had died as well? (Or how much *did* the death of > Elenwe and the near deaths of Turgon and Idril affect him (more than > other peoples' deaths/near deaths on the journey affected him)?) A lot depends on how close he was with his daughter in law, but I'm sure he was more and more angry on his half bro with every death of his people because of Feanor's charming story, but also because of his own stupidity to let them all follow his crazy brother. He might have said "no" and talk his people to stay, some would listen to his words as most of Finarfin's people went back with Finarfin. I'm sure Fingolfin had more respect among Noldor than Finarfin and Feanor, they already treated him as the right king, not Feanor, so even more elves would listen to him. Though as we've already said once he had follow Feanor not only because his own oath but also to take care of his people who decided to follow Feanor. But how many of his people would follow Feanor if he didn't? How many elves would really follow Feanor after hearing the prophecy of Mandos if Fingolfin didn't? They were already cursing Feanaor for the harsh conditions, witnessed kinslaying at Alqualonde etc. They didn't trust Feanor, but travelled after Fingolfin. So what would happen if Fingolfin said he is coming back to Aman? He was called the wise after all, he should make a wise decision. Looking at Fingolfin's reaction after Bragollah every death affected him, so I guess Elwnwe's had a huge impact on him, but maybe the lost of Arakano in Lammoth was greater. All depends what was seen as more tragic - death on ice or in battle? Going to Mandos freezing or in battle glory? What ever, to both elves the journey was over, time for healing and coming back to Aman, they were lucky. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 746 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12953 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 14:46:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 14:46:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 14:46:33 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 14:45:48 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 14:45:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 14:45:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:45:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <439630.70714.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=CU-QhhgLkYUOTSeiAtbj5no5KR4wFM4v018Vkof9DvlzKWZc4huh X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore wrote: > Ah, but did anyone have a hair dryer?? ;-P > > No re= ally, my hair takes *hours* to dry. Even with dry clothes, his hair would = still be wet (well, it'd probably be ice after a few minutes!). Big proble= m. Now I'm having memories of arguing with my grandmother-in-law, who th= inks that going outside with wet hair is what causes colds. ;) But I still= think that it's possible to survive something like the Helcaraxe if we co= nsider it not only probable but likely that they had changes of clothes an= d blankets. Again, it is uncomfortable and certainly dangerous, but these = are Elves of Aman: I've always assumed them to be much hardier than modern= Humans. We certainly have instances of even modern Humans surviving extre= me cold while also wet. When the _Titanic_ sank, I think that four people= were pulled out of the water when the lone lifeboat returned to search fo= r survivors. I believe (and I am going on a study of _Titanic_ history fro= m almost ten years ago, so please don't quote me!) that the water was 28F/= -2C and it took about 45 minutes for the lifeboat to return. They weren't = taken aboard a ship for some hours after that, so they were (like the Elve= s on the Helcaraxe) left soaking wet, exposed to the elements, and with li= ttle aside from dry blankets and other people for comfort. I do not mean = to discount the explanation that Turgon took his dive at the end of the tr= ek across the Ice; it is certainly a nice explanation for how he may have = survived while others didn't and also works well in a literary sense. :) B= ut if I saw a story where Elenwe dies at the middle or even the beginning = of the walk, I do not think that there is adequate support to dismiss this= on the grounds of canon or logic, depending on how the author handled the= details (blankets, dry clothes, et cetera) in her/his story. And even if= she does die on the last day upon the Helcaraxe, that still doesn't fully= address the issue of hypothermia in Turgon, as they still had many miles = and weeks (months?) of walking left before reaching more moderate climates= . It would probably be easier to build a fire off of the Helcaraxe, but I = imagine that Lammoth (being on the same parallel, it appears, as Himring t= he Ever-cold) was tundra and probably very forbidding as well. > My take = on supplies is that well, the didn't plan ahead *that* well. I am sort of = under the impression that they weren't exactly planning on crossing the Gr= inding Ice. I didn't mean to imply that they planned to cross the Ice or w= ere equipped to do so. But I thought I remembered a comment somewhere abo= ut how Turgon may have been threatened by the lack of dry clothes on the H= elcaraxe, and I've always felt it possible and probable that the Elves bro= ught at least clothing and blankets. They may not have been ideal for the = Grinding Ice, but it would have been _something_ ... better at least than = the thought that poor Turgon went about for a month after his wife's death= with soaking-wet knickers frozen to his backside. ;) Though that would ce= rtainly explain his grouchiness as well ... It also leads me to wonder if= /how they prepared for and what they expected to find in the Outer Lands. = At least Feanor and his sons (and possibly Aredhel as well, since she is k= nown to have run around with them) had traveled and hunted extensively acr= oss Aman; they may have had a better idea of what the world was like outsi= de the Valinor, a.k.a. sunny southern California. ;) Also, what sort of k= nowledge/legends survived of the Outer Lands and may have influenced the N= oldorin perception of them? Survival in the Outer Lands more so than expec= ted hardship in Aman is why I think that at least some of the Noldor may h= ave prepared for harsher conditions than that to which they were accustome= d. Of course, this is my personal interpretation and largely based on the= way that I see and write these eras of Elven history. I can't see anythin= g wrong with the explanations that other people are offering: that Turgon = fell near the end of the crossing, for example, or that the Noldor were la= rgely unprepared for the hardships they'd face. Neither do I think that my= interpretations and explanations can be dismissed by logic or canon, thou= gh I'm always open to discussion and debate. ;) Best regards to all, Dawn= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 747 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70302 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 15:28:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 15:28:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 15:28:47 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.d52.5003b72 (48624) for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:28:11 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174577291" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=fDmtp2xvA3c8mxpvslAIbw5BH9fuQa9WVyv-Sd1YE1X-QEH5Zg2R X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174577291 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/22/2007 9:54:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: soaking-wet knickers frozen to his backside. ;) Though that would certainly explain his grouchiness as well ... Love this discussion. I definitely think that I owe Turgon an apology for being unfairly judgmental. Now I'm having memories of arguing with my grandmother-Now I'm havi thinks that going outside with wet hair is what causes colds. ;) I remember arguing as a pre-teen with my grandmother (after having read the Microbe Hunters--great book by the way) that germs, not wet hair, caused colds. I still think the key for me is that these stories are mythic and not based on hard reality. The delicate part for me remains is that I enjoy writing about the events with a nod in the direction of realism that makes me also want to find explanations. A loophole in this case that I would use is that elves do have stamina and their semi-immortal state means they can survive a lot more than we could. However, I still find a lot of the detail hard to difficult--the most most recent discussion I had in the concrete ended up with me being unable to accept the canon fact that Maedhros could have possibly survived hanging from the cliffs of Thangorodrim by one hand for years. While other have pursued complicated explanations for how this might be possible, I decided, for the sake of my current story line, that I would consider this fact pure literary hyperbole or poetic exaggeration and dramatically collapsed the entire timeframe for the series of events around his capture and rescue. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174577291 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/22/2007 9:54:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.n= et writes:
soaking-wet
knickers fro= zen to his backside. ;) Though that would certainly
explain his grou= chiness as well ...
Love thi= s discussion. I definitely think that I owe Turgon an apology for being un= fairly judgmental.
 
Now I= 'm having memories of arguing with my grandmother-in-law, who
thi= nks that going outside with wet hair is what causes colds. ;)
I remember arguing as a pre-teen with my grandmother (after having read = the Microbe Hunters--great book by the way) that germs, not wet h= air, caused colds.
 
I still think the key for m= e is that these stories are mythic and not based on hard reality. The deli= cate part for me remains is that I enjoy writing about the events with a n= od in the direction of realism that makes me also want to find explanation= s. A loophole in this case that I would use is that elves do have stamina = and their semi-immortal state means they can survive a lot more than we co= uld. However, I still find a lot of the detail hard to difficult--the most= most recent discussion I had in the concrete ended up with me being unable= to accept the canon fact that Maedhros could have possibly survived hangi= ng from the cliffs of Thangorodrim by one hand for years. While other have= pursued complicated explanations for how this might be possible, I decide= d, for the sake of my current story line, that I would consider this fact = pure literary hyperbole or poetic exaggeration and dramatically collapsed = the entire timeframe for the series of events around his capture and resc= ue.



AOL now offers free = email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. =
-------------------------------1174577291-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 748 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60576 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 17:34:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 17:34:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.117) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 17:34:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 26259 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2007 17:34:41 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: UYu0e_kVM1maIQ3AfvHS0yfP4jfazEEHmCLBqQPaeaUxOZfmUqLxSNKtsSr70tlLJ.Yul94eiPlgEMoaTkCe9HIpJXKlQTzY1m1tTVs4taWEhM88Jc.liKGNe3m.4MvvcvrDRksK3t_PpQrcRMla04qgnw-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:34:41 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:34:41 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1157197597-1174584881=:26246" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <329116.26246.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=ojLUrGnf1rdaXjmvEwn9Ize7HxrGkG6QZ1dABP8HS6qmOpbyLUEBqAk X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1157197597-1174584881=:26246 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I believe (and I am going on a study of _Titanic_ history from almost ten years ago, so please don't quote me!) that the water was 28F/-2C and it took about 45 minutes for the lifeboat to return. 28 F/-2 C is what I remember too. I was actually going to use this to argue the other way, but couldn't find the time it took to return. GMTA it seems, even when said minds are disagreeing. ;-) Anyways, I'm certainly not arguing that it is impossible to survive the Helcaraxe. Obviously not everyone died. ;-) But at the same time, only four or six (I'm remembering six, but it might have been six pulled from the water, and two died in the boat) were pulled from the water when it that same time frame, 1,500 or so died. The lifeboats were picked up by the Carpathia by around sunrise (the last lifeboat was picket up around 8:30 AM). I am assuming that the Helcaraxe took much longer than six hours to cross. >>But if I saw a story where Elenwe dies at the middle or even the beginning of the walk, I do not think that there is adequate support to dismiss this on the grounds of canon or logic, depending on how the author handled the details (blankets, dry clothes, et cetera) in her/his story. Yes, it would certainly depend on the details and how the author handled them. We don't have enough info to make a concrete judgment (not enough info? Silmarillion? Big surprise there!! ;-) ); there are too many variables! It's just my interpretation of when things happened that makes the story believable for me. :-) I can't say I can recall seeing all that many stories involving this scenario, whether Turgon decided to go swimming at the beginning, middle, or end! >>And even if she does die on the last day upon the Helcaraxe, that still doesn't fully address the issue of hypothermia in Turgon, as they still had many miles and weeks (months?) of walking left before reaching more moderate climates. True enough, though for me that makes it even less likely that this whole business happened at the beginning. It depends heavily on how long it took to get from Araman to warmer climates. Certainly being an Elf works to Turgon's advantage here, but given that many others died on the Helcaraxe, I personally think it's more likely that the whole thing happened toward the end (not necessarily on the last day). Of course, maybe he just got lucky (or unlucky) and was saved by Fate (with much head banging by Mandos, probably). ;-) >>But I thought I remembered a comment somewhere about how Turgon may have been threatened by the lack of dry clothes on the Helcaraxe Hmm, I might have accidentally implied that, but I didn't mean to say that they had only the clothes on their back. Although, considering that they might not have been dressed for the cold, it could be that many of the Elves put on as many extra layers of clothing as they could. And depends on how many clothes they brought, and how many of those they were wearing; who knows how many pieces of clothing Turgon soaked when he jumped in? Personally, I think even then it's probable that there was *something* to put on, and wearing one dry shirt is better than three wet shirts...Like you said, it's really up to the individual to decide these details... >>better at least than the thought that poor Turgon went about for a month after his wife's death with soaking-wet knickers frozen to his backside. ;) Though that would certainly explain his grouchiness as well ... Hehehe!! I think you're on to something here, Dawn...>;-) >> It also leads me to wonder if/how they prepared for and what they expected to find in the Outer Lands. Good question. I have no idea. ;-) Harsher conditions, sure, but which way to go? Will it be colder? Hotter? How much so? Even then, would they have many supplies appropriate for those climates, even if they did expect them? I don't personally think they had the time to knit heavy sweaters before leaving. ;-) Ahh, so many details! Of course, I think this is why I find Sil-fic more fascinating that LotR fic. But that's a completely different discussion! ;-) Tarion, who is going to be a poor girl if she keeps throwing in so many cents! ~T�rion --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-1157197597-1174584881=:26246 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I believe (and I am going on a study of _Titanic_ history from almost ten years ago, so please don't quote me!) that the water was 28F/-2C and it took about 45 minutes for the lifeboat to return.

28 F/-2 C is what I remember too. I was actually going to use this to argue the other way, but couldn't find the time it took to return. GMTA it seems, even when said minds are disagreeing. ;-)

Anyways, I'm certainly not arguing that it is impossible to survive the Helcaraxe. Obviously not everyone died. ;-) But at the same time, only four or six (I'm remembering six, but it might have been six pulled from the water, and two died in the boat) were pulled from the water when it that same time frame, 1,500 or so died. The lifeboats were picked up by the Carpathia by around sunrise (the last lifeboat was picket up around 8:30 AM). I am assuming that the Helcaraxe took much longer than six hours to cross.

>>But if I saw a story where Elenwe dies at the middle or even the beginning of the walk, I do not think that there is adequate support to dismiss this on the
grounds of canon or logic, depending on how the author handled the details (blankets, dry clothes, et cetera) in her/his story.

Yes, it would certainly depend on the details and how the author handled them. We don't have enough info to make a concrete judgment (not enough info? Silmarillion? Big surprise there!! ;-) ); there are too many variables! It's just my interpretation of when things happened that makes the story believable for me. :-) I can't say I can recall seeing all that many stories involving this scenario, whether Turgon decided to go swimming at the beginning, middle, or end!

>>And even if she does die on the last day upon the Helcaraxe, that still doesn't fully address the issue of hypothermia in Turgon, as they still had many miles and weeks (months?) of walking left before reaching more moderate climates.

True enough, though for me that makes it even less likely that this whole business happened at the beginning. It depends heavily on how long it took to get from Araman to warmer climates. Certainly being an Elf works to Turgon's advantage here, but given that many others died on the Helcaraxe, I personally think it's more likely that the whole thing happened toward the end (not necessarily on the last day).

Of course, maybe he just got lucky (or unlucky) and was saved by Fate (with much head banging by Mandos, probably). ;-)

>>But I thought I remembered a comment somewhere about how Turgon may have been threatened by the lack of dry clothes on the Helcaraxe

Hmm, I might have accidentally implied that, but I didn't mean to say that they had only the clothes on their back. Although, considering that they might not have been dressed for the cold, it could be that many of the Elves put on as many extra layers of clothing as they could. And depends on how many clothes they brought, and how many of those they were wearing; who knows how many pieces of clothing Turgon soaked when he jumped in? Personally, I think even then it's probable that there was *something* to put on, and wearing one dry shirt is better than three wet shirts...Like you said, it's really up to the individual to decide these details...

>>better at least than the thought that poor Turgon went about for a month after his wife's death with soaking-wet knickers frozen to his backside. ;) Though that would certainly explain his grouchiness as well ...

Hehehe!! I think you're on to something here, Dawn...>;-)

>> It also leads me to wonder if/how they prepared for and what they expected to find in the Outer Lands.

Good question. I have no idea. ;-) Harsher conditions, sure, but which way to go? Will it be colder? Hotter? How much so? Even then, would they have many supplies appropriate for those climates, even if they did expect them? I don't personally think they had the time to knit heavy sweaters before leaving. ;-)

Ahh, so many details! Of course, I think this is why I find Sil-fic more fascinating that LotR fic. But that's a completely different discussion! ;-)

Tarion, who is going to be a poor girl if she keeps throwing in so many cents!


~T�rion

Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-1157197597-1174584881=:26246-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 749 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14195 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 17:59:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 17:59:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.121) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 17:59:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 9034 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2007 17:58:20 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: E9ohUscVM1k9RUNNfVQHYCdavlkuoVY.BG6kJdMJebbPbQ.G22KoFDOSQyiv3_WddwqMDm172R_yUBKQ0EPfXYgcCYOOkny6_FuiKeunogPKXyV3O6My8EcNe8m7aNcITsuzhUBefsWfUn4VTTQ8VFqgVw-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:58:20 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:58:20 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <462194.44137.qm@web58302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1306398909-1174586300=:9011" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <410818.9011.qm@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=5TwM9jHIxAhhU2nOM4z_28G6v_zoGsgPzVe-IKVkD89_ZsP7EhP3nCI X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1306398909-1174586300=:9011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hmm, interesting question!! *shoos bunnies in everyone else's direction b/c doesn't have time for another plot bunny - and would have to buy a new bunny cage ;-) * Tarion "Niki S." wrote: Hmm, this makes me wonder--if Turgon was as bitter as he was towards the Feanoreans because Elenwe died, how would Fingolfin have changed if Turgon had died as well? (Or how much *did* the death of Elenwe and the near deaths of Turgon and Idril affect him (more than other peoples' deaths/near deaths on the journey affected him)?) -Pulsarkat ~T�rion --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. --0-1306398909-1174586300=:9011 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hmm, interesting question!! *shoos bunnies in everyone else's direction b/c doesn't have time for another plot bunny - and would have to buy a new bunny cage ;-) *

Tarion

"Niki S." wrote:
Hmm, this makes me wonder--if Turgon was as bitter as he was towards the Feanoreans because Elenwe died, how would Fingolfin have changed if Turgon had died as well? (Or how much *did* the death of Elenwe and the near deaths of Turgon and Idril affect him (more than other peoples' deaths/near deaths on the journey affected him)?)

-Pulsarkat



~T�rion

Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. --0-1306398909-1174586300=:9011-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 750 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17957 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 17:54:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 17:54:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.126) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 17:53:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 76087 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2007 17:53:52 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 2CMoRLYVM1lVCY2pNLI6Vk6c7jNZk.ZAnm4ADi_cNCWf8YRYJHnUxZFiF5QuarQHg2YUIJkJhO2HbZG_cDn.An0go7iDAnB_hH5nGbBi3zTiWbnQNGmb1G5MHOAHniMQvdLBL8eOXt9GwefB1L.oqz6qbQ-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:53:52 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:53:52 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <359101605.20070322121615@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1793137198-1174586032=:75345" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <643646.75345.qm@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=heR1rZxmg_q6h7hKcz1qgP1SdM4ktnD8LBII1I8-Z9_56Tspk-k0oZ4 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1793137198-1174586032=:75345 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Good point, but I know some people walking outside with still damp hair while there is minus outside and they survive it. I bet elves were all the time a bit frozen - hair, clothes, frozen tears on cheeks etc. I have a friend who goes outside with wet hair in the winter too. She gets icicles in her hair, and you can break off pieces of hair. I think she's crazy. ;-) I certainly think the Elves were all pretty cold - I don't think that the Helcaraxe being ice was a coincidence. (Could be wrong on that though.) I think the fact that the elves were able to cross the Helcaraxe is miraculous because of the icy, blizzard conditions, not just the unstable footing; otherwise, JRRT could have had them crossing an earthquake-prone land-bridge without the cold. >>frozen bodies and minds just keep on walking, don't stop or you'll die. That's the theory I have too. The longer you stop, the harder it is to get up and keep going. >>No mature sanity on board ;) They had no idea what does it mean to march, to have a war (and with Vala!), to fight, what suffering and dying is. Haha, well put! I agree, they didn't know what they were getting into, especially concerning war. They all had to do some quick (mental) growing-up. And I agree that those who came to Aman with the Valar probably stayed behind, knowing the dangers of Middle Earth and also probably not believing the stuff about the Valar caging the Elves in Valinor. >>A lot of materials to burn on ice, if the temperature allowed to set any fire there. Interesting thought. Though, if it were possible to light fires, it might be counter productive, depending on how much the elves knew at that point about frostbite. Thawing out those cold extremities only to have them freeze again is bad. >>Last thing is to count how much time it really took them That is one thing I don't have any clue about 1) not having HoME (too expensive!) and 2) not being able to wrap my brain around the whole Sun year versus Tree year versus Valian year versus the slow clock on my microwave...;-) Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. --0-1793137198-1174586032=:75345 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Good point, but I know some people walking outside with still damp hair while there is minus outside and they survive it. I bet elves were all the time a bit frozen - hair, clothes, frozen tears on cheeks etc.

I have a friend who goes outside with wet hair in the winter too. She gets icicles in her hair, and you can break off pieces of hair. I think she's crazy. ;-) I certainly think the Elves were all pretty cold - I don't think that the Helcaraxe being ice was a coincidence. (Could be wrong on that though.) I think the fact that the elves were able to cross the Helcaraxe is miraculous because of the icy, blizzard conditions, not just the unstable footing; otherwise, JRRT could have had them crossing an earthquake-prone land-bridge without the cold.

>>frozen bodies and minds just keep on walking, don't stop or you'll die.

That's the theory I have too. The longer you stop, the harder it is to get up and keep going.

>>No mature sanity on board ;) They had no idea what does it mean to march, to have a war (and with Vala!), to fight, what suffering and dying is.

Haha, well put! I agree, they didn't know what they were getting into, especially concerning war. They all had to do some quick (mental) growing-up. And I agree that those who came to Aman with the Valar probably stayed behind, knowing the dangers of Middle Earth and also probably not believing the stuff about the Valar caging the Elves in Valinor.

>>A lot of materials to burn on ice, if the temperature allowed to set any fire there.

Interesting thought. Though, if it were possible to light fires, it might be counter productive, depending on how much the elves knew at that point about frostbite. Thawing out those cold extremities only to have them freeze again is bad.

>>Last thing is to count how much time it really took them

That is one thing I don't have any clue about 1) not having HoME (too expensive!) and 2) not being able to wrap my brain around the whole Sun year versus Tree year versus Valian year versus the slow clock on my microwave...;-)

Tarion


~T�rion

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. --0-1793137198-1174586032=:75345-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 751 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68898 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 22:02:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 22:02:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 22:02:13 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 22:00:41 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 22:00:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 22:00:41 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:00:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=egB10NSk7AOeCUssKYkZ3Uq6zQ01r1Ldte1AKPq5qu1EiZmHEP7l-w X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser I think that the sparsity of the text lends itself to creating explanatio= ns, not to being fanciful. There is nothing to say that the Noldor of Tir= ion were unable to harpoon walruses, eat the flesh, and turn the pelts int= o warm clothing/blankets/sleeping rolls. Of course, there is nothing to s= uggest that they *did* or even that there are walruses in ME ;). If the I= sraelites can wander for 40 years in the desert, Fingolfin's host can wand= er for 40 years on the Helcaraxe. Not happily, perhaps, and not without l= oss - but we have to assume that they were resourceful, able to take care = of themselves, and decently well equipped for traveling and settling in f= oreign lands. They left in haste, yes, but not instantly. They didn't f= orget to pack! F=EBanor left behind much of his work, I'm sure, thinking = he could always make new treasures in the new land. But he thought to br= ing horses, and he thought they'd need boats to carry all their stuff.....= I mean, they were companies with provisions, not just a bunch of people ou= t for a stroll. And it wasn't just the youngsters, because only 1/10 stay= ed behind (originally). Those who did stay stayed out of love for their h= omes and the Valar, not out of fear of the elements! Anyone who has rea= d "To Build A Fire" knows what happens if you get wet in the bitter cold a= nd cannot warm up. But that man's problem was that he was alone...Turgon = would be travelling with people who could bundle him up and keep him warm = - at the very least with their own body heat! I know the lack of trees is= a difficulty, but I imagine they brought at least some wood from Araman a= nd had some fires sometimes. Also, you can burn dried dung. Even if thei= r animals died, there is always their own wastes. Without fire, I think = they all would have died eventually. So, I presume they were somewhat res= ourceful enough to build fires. Maybe not every day, but as often as need= ed. I can think of several simple explanations for Maedhros' survival. = -Some orc had "feed the captive" duty and was lowered over the cliff on a= rope each week to give him some water and food. When Maedhros was still = strong enough, he would try to take the food and kill the orc, so this dut= y was not really relished ;) -Morgoth used magic to suspend him in some so= rt of stasis where he would not need food. He was just really hungry when= he got back to Mithrim! -The iron band on his wrist acted as a magical I= V, dripping necessary nutrients into him as needed. It was, after all, he= ll- wrought iron ;) This could be part of the torture, knowing that he re= lied on Morgoth for life. -The eagles of Manw=EB sustained his life by b= ringing him food. It doesn't say they did, but they certainly lived in th= at area of the world and *could* have. -"Starving to death" is not one of= the things that can kill elves. They just get weaker and weaker and weak= er.... Unpleasant to contemplate, but the only canon characters who starv= e are Morwen and Elur=E9d/Elurin, neither of whom were elves from Aman (a = mortal and half-elven mortals, respectively). I actually think it would= be more difficult to explain H=FArin's survival in Angband, since he is a= mortal man. But there, I just assume he's being fed or that Morgoth's ma= gic is taking care of that for him. ~ MithLuin --- In SilmarillionWri= tersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: However, I still find a= lot of the detail hard to > difficult--the most most recent discussion I= had in the concrete ended up with me being > unable to accept the canon= fact that Maedhros could have possibly survived > hanging from the clif= fs of Thangorodrim by one hand for years. While other > have pursued com= plicated explanations for how this might be possible, I decided, > for th= e sake of my current story line, that I would consider this fact pure > = literary hyperbole or poetic exaggeration and dramatically collapsed the = > entire timeframe for the series of events around his capture and resc= ue. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 752 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1435 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 22:30:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 22:30:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 22:30:34 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3D65805F for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 23:25:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 23:25:01 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 23:25:06 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <12163356.20070322232506@tlen.pl> To: marielprosser In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=3JIsZwwEVmt27hhrm59PKsjFN66L3CmW_m66Q7Bo_qW7UcRwceY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Hi, > -Some orc had "feed the captive" duty and was lowered over the clif= f > on a rope each week to give him some water and food. The vampires fly= ing to him in my AU way, but I rather bet on Morgoth's black magic, what ev= er way he put his spell on, it kept Maedhros alive. > -"Starving to deat= h" is not one of the things that can kill elves. > They just get weaker an= d weaker and weaker.... Unpleasant to > contemplate, but the only canon = characters who starve are Morwen and > Elur=E9d/Elurin, neither of whom we= re elves from Aman (a mortal and > half-elven mortals, respectively). Th= is always amaze me - where is that idea from that elves can't die of famine= ? Fact, that none of the elves we know died of starving doesn't mean none o= f them did. I'm sure they are dying from starvation and lack of water as an= y other alive being on Arda - apart the Powers, of course, but they only we= ar bodies as clothes, while elves and humans are made of flesh and bones. = The only canonical prove would be if Tolkien ever wrote that elves can't di= e of famine. Anyone recalls such statement? > I actually think it would = be more difficult to explain H=FArin's > survival in Angband, since he is = a mortal man. But there, I just > assume he's being fed or that Morgoth'= s magic is taking care of that > for him. Totally agree with the magic id= ea. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 753 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54938 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 05:02:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 05:02:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.113) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 05:02:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 84334 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Mar 2007 05:02:22 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: iVP8xcAVM1kilIrrEQxeQB96ajTtNFuw6gadaMbOfYlmqouDDZBHARVjQnX9oT3XqTu2S2stvXEyeOsc9VIbir4sRSRWmsXROEjpxZdQhNGqW2Lijt88kbRkUakUit9hf.Ms09KhgG9g4loAMKMnnlPsJw-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:02:21 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:02:21 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-765265814-1174626141=:83720" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <6473.83720.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=RldqezzetMR0-Q1ysJqK8zdOIyL-cIyj2sR6XmQUcKVv2TmhQaMiTqk X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-765265814-1174626141=:83720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>If the Israelites can wander for 40 years in the desert, Fingolfin's host can wander for 40 years on the Helcaraxe. That's certainly a valid reasoning/interpretation. However, for myself I have to question the validity of the parallel for two reasons: 1) the Israelites wandering 40 years in the desert is an account of the Bible, therefore I think that any reasoning based on it is highly subject to a person's own beliefs; and 2) the Israelites were God's chosen people, in his favor. The Noldor are basically the opposite, having fallen out of favor with the Valar. "The Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains." (The Silmarillion, Of the Flight of the Noldor). A perfectly acceptable interpretation though. I am now tempted to write about elves and their first encounter with walruses...;-) Tarion (do I qualify as Devil's Advocate yet? ;-) ) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --0-765265814-1174626141=:83720 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>If the Israelites can wander for 40 years in the desert, Fingolfin's host can wander for 40 years on the Helcaraxe.

That's certainly a valid reasoning/interpretation. However, for myself I have to question the validity of the parallel for two reasons: 1) the Israelites wandering 40 years in the desert is an account of the Bible, therefore I think that any reasoning based on it is highly subject to a person's own beliefs; and 2) the Israelites were God's chosen people, in his favor. The Noldor are basically the opposite, having fallen out of favor with the Valar. "The Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains." (The Silmarillion, Of the Flight of the Noldor).

A perfectly acceptable interpretation though. I am now tempted to write about elves and their first encounter with walruses...;-)

Tarion (do I qualify as Devil's Advocate yet? ;-) )


~T�rion

Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --0-765265814-1174626141=:83720-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 754 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82031 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 05:07:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 05:07:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 05:07:28 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.d28.7ebcf9f (43932) for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 01:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 01:06:05 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174626365" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=SRLPVWtJGYS7XeBKSyeton5wBZ1xqxtDVPR5LqZC7zti-p_lzlHT X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174626365 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/23/2007 12:02:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com writes: "The Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains." (The Silmarillion, Of the Flight of the Noldor). Just makes me want to slap those nasty Valar! Hey, I read a lot worse than a first encounter with the walrus every day. (Ain't no fic so bad I won't read it!) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174626365 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/23/2007 12:02:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.= com writes:
"The Valar will fence Valin= or against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lame= ntation shall pass over the mountains." (The Silmarillion, Of the Flight= of the Noldor).

Just m= akes me want to slap those nasty Valar! Hey, I read a lot worse than = a first encounter with the walrus every day. (Ain't no fic so bad I won't = read it!)



AOL now offers= free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. <= /FONT>
-------------------------------1174626365-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 755 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74264 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 05:11:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 05:11:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.122) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 05:11:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 73058 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Mar 2007 05:11:48 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: fDavA3wVM1lMi3dg28GIcGQlDzUYbEf9QXpDfwnbgjghfjhz90f57HZUwFcTbrKXyGNwiFgSo3QUYvs1LUxiwYMxXSsA.Bs4HKQUVWnBuo3xZBVtX3ZvpLqmq3K4cq8aE6e_v38jtou.4VOE6ZKvIa.c Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:11:48 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:11:48 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-112767599-1174626708=:73052" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <770580.73052.qm@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=Er9MNtnKzU2xPcH2MUbX2r7AiIrrPQ7m7BSQki0lO5gwAs7VStc6GqY X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-112767599-1174626708=:73052 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Just makes me want to slap those nasty Valar! Yeah, there's only one thing worse they could have added to the whole Doom: "You can't come to my birthday!" ~T�rion --------------------------------- Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. --0-112767599-1174626708=:73052 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Just makes me want to slap those nasty Valar!

Yeah, there's only one thing worse they could have added to the whole Doom:

"You can't come to my birthday!"




~T�rion

Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. --0-112767599-1174626708=:73052-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 756 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33546 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 05:24:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 05:24:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 05:24:01 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.ca0.cfdac2d (43932) for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 01:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 01:23:44 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174627424" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=F9-4Csu1NQO0jXBIcr9SDvQHh8Hdq_p-fAR5R7MItPZ68pCpcwfK X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174627424 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/23/2007 12:20:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com writes: "You can't come to my birthday!" There is a certain quality of that to their response to the whole mess. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174627424 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/23/2007 12:20:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.= com writes:
"You can't come to my birthda= y!"
There is a certain qual= ity of that to their response to the whole mess.



=
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out= more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174627424-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 757 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24709 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 15:33:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 15:33:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 15:33:32 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 15:32:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 15:32:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:32:51 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Speaking of bad boys, a SSP ;) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=VnQyJ9dCiF_oUUkD_45kN5cruN5MjoQ5weJJfcDnzN8yaA4VEADonf8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > In a message dated 3/17/2007 5:21:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rh= apsody74@... writes: > > Well, hmm Celegorm is not a bad boy. Just a very= intriguing > character,but not evil and bad... > > > Rhapsody, Celego= rm is not a bad boy in my view. People do a couple > of not-so-wonderful t= hings in several hundred years and everyone > gets all upset. > (Teasing= you--you're supposed to laugh here.) Yeah but still, it are those few tim= es compared to the other heroic deeds that still gives him the stamp: utter= evol, walk around him with a 100 yard radius at the very least. It someti= mes gets a bit frustrating, but even more the challenge to make readers fee= l for Celegorm, explore his past, how he came to be and well yeah. It gets = more frustrating when you know people skewer around stories featuring him a= nd say: oh one of the 3C's. No thanks, I'd rather read something else. Yes,= I do get comments like that. I do approach him from a certain angle and n= o I won't excuse what he did, I rather dive deeper into the character to di= scover the why. It's so fascinating, the more I write him the more layers y= ou can peel away. > I will definitely read your "Requiem" story. I also h= ave Celegorm > doing something nice right away in the current chapter of = my > post-Thangorodrim story which I am working on now. Well, not many r= eaders or feedback so far. So I'd probably messed up somewhere with this st= ory, so don't be surprised if it is pulled offline soonish when I will try = to figure out what is wrong with it. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 758 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33002 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 15:40:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 15:40:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 15:40:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 15:40:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 15:40:45 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:40:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20070321202140.70323.qmail@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=QJlxb-qE-CUjIfgo9dg0R4tQNrw38q7gGJeEGu_5Q_JDl1iX_MpTtaI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: > > So... Now we're left to decide if that's to specify= how she died or > if that's talking about her burial... *eg* And now I ha= ve this mental > image of someone crossing the Helcaraxe in the Second Age= or so and > finding Elenwe's body encased in ice, still as beautiful as i= t would > have been when she was alive... And I'll bet that her's wasn't = the > only body to end up like that... The Helcaraxe could easily have be= en > the First/Second Age equivalent of the Third/Fourth Age Dead Marshes = That could work weren't it for the breaking of Beleriand and such at the en= d of the First Age. Any connection to the Helcaraxe got lost from that side= .. Then there was the downfall of Numenor of which Valinor is removed from = the Circle of the world.. A lot gets drowned so the question would be: how = much is left of the Helcaraxe and how to get there with Valinor gone at one= side, Beleriand at the other... Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 759 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95730 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 15:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 15:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.8) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 15:45:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 15:45:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 15:45:38 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:45:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=RFTWScqF_zrKO0UEDjFM2hk2tAwQvg-DqTe4lv2WYuFkbU4B95NAQnM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > I'm sorry, but all of the love, loyalty, commitment, and the > undeniabl= e pain and suffering, makes the story of the Feanorians a > real tragedy = on the grand scale for me and not simply a question of > violent, reckless= , disturbed boys, gone terribly wrong. But there > is a lot of careless t= ossing around of those concepts, especially > outside of the circle of wr= iters who concentrate on the > Silmarillion. It gets a bit tiresome at tim= es to always be fending > off stupid Feanor jokes. Ah well, as I was ta= lking about this with an author who writes an awesome Caranthir: those Nold= or shrug it off and really don't care about what others say. Think Marc Ant= hony of Rome ;) It's both a strengt and a weakness, the pride that boils ho= t through their veins, the untouchable attitude, their fierce battles again= st the evil creatures of Melkor and himself. The self-confidence that is th= em makes him so intriguing to study and write. > (Oh, poor me--don't I s= ound tragic! Sounds like I need to think more > about that Twister game an= d where on Finrod I do or do not want to > place my hand.) Be sure that = you put him in an angle where we all can enjoy a magnificent view ;) Rhap= sody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 760 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8003 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 15:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 15:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.132) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 15:49:34 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 15:49:33 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 15:49:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 15:49:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:49:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <238786.72254.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=71ls3Urg2ud-Rqpq_TtWsfPVhxNImiMir4u2nR8MJRIIENyZilBLzZs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore wrote: > >>That's why the genre is called fantasy and not sociali= st realism or >>other schools of art or literature that I studied as a ki= d! LOL > > Haha! And here I was thinking that the whole story was meant t= o > illustrate the glory of socialism... I mean lookit the Valar. "Now > = Feanor, *everyone* has ownership rights on the Silmarils..." ;-P *giggle*= snort* Yeps, makes sense ;) I'd be angry too. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 761 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64866 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 16:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 16:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.114) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 16:27:23 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 16:27:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 16:27:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 16:27:02 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:27:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1364893954.20070322123829@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=dBh_jxiQNPbXJIYNrMcYhTfZu3EgJJj2690PT4pHlkpQFat5hd8Lav8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai Niki, > > > > Hmm, this makes me wonder--if Turgon was as bit= ter as he was > > towards the Feanoreans because Elenwe died, how would Fin= golfin > > have changed if Turgon had died as well? (Or how much *did* the= > > death of Elenwe and the near deaths of Turgon and Idril affect him > = > (more than other peoples' deaths/near deaths on the journey > > affected= him)?) > > A lot depends on how close he was with his daughter in law, b= ut I'm > sure he was more and more angry on his half bro with every death o= f > his people because of Feanor's charming story, but also because of > h= is own stupidity to let them all follow his crazy brother. He might > have = said "no" and talk his people to stay, some would listen to his > words as = most of Finarfin's people went back with Finarfin. Good points, however, = the tragedy of Finarfin is that his children did chose to follow their uncl= es, so that must have drawn many followers of Finarfin's house as well. > = I'm sure Fingolfin had more respect among Noldor than Finarfin and > Feano= r, they already treated him as the right king, not Feanor, so > even more = elves would listen to him. Though as we've already said > once he had foll= ow Feanor not only because his own oath but also to > take care of his peo= ple who decided to follow Feanor. Yes and no. I am not certain if Fingolfi= n was respected more than Feanor, the fact that Finwe went with his eldest = instead of making things easier for Fingolfin in Tirion is a signal his peo= ple could not ignore. It almost feels like Finwe endorsed Feanor instead of= Fingolfin. That would explain why so many were rallied on that square to b= egin with. The chosen son who will avenge *our* king Finwe! Also don't forg= et that the brothers reconciled and if memory serves me correctly it was Fi= ngolfin who said he'd follow Feanor. *looks around for the Silm* "For Fing= olfin held forth his hand, saying: 'As I promised, I do now. I release thee= , and remember no grievance.' Then F=EBanor took his hand in silence; but F= ingolfin said: 'Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart will I be. Tho= u shalt lead and I will follow. May no new grief divide as.' 'I hear thee,'= said F=EBanor. 'So be it.' But they did not know the meaning that their wo= rds would bear." Chapter 8 Of the Darkening of Valinor > But how many of = his people would follow Feanor if he didn't? How > many elves would really= follow Feanor after hearing the prophecy of > Mandos if Fingolfin didn't?= Don't underestimate the children of Fingolfin and Finarfin. Galadriel rea= lly wanted to go, so did Fingon for example. "Finrod was with Turgon, his = friend; but Galadriel, the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day tall = and valiant among the contending princes, was eager to be gone. No oaths sh= e swore, but the words of F=EBanor concerning Middle-earth had kindled in h= er heart, for she yearned to see the wide unguarded lands and to rule there= a realm at her own will. Of like mind with Galadriel was Fingon Fingolfin'= s son, being moved also by F=EBanor's words, though he loved him little; an= d with Fingon stood as they ever did Angrod and Aegnor, sons of Finarfin. B= ut these held their peace and spoke not against their fathers." Chapter 9 O= f the Flight of the Noldor > They were already cursing Feanaor for the har= sh conditions, > witnessed kinslaying at Alqualonde etc. They didn't trust= Feanor, > but travelled after Fingolfin. I don't know if they mistrust = Feanor, Tolkien writes 'feeling the constraint of kinship and the will of F= =EBanor'. That sounds to me that they still held hope at that moment. "But= his sons were not with him, for they would not forsake the sons of Fingolf= in; and all Fingolfin's folk went forward still, feeling the constraint of = their kinship and the will of F=EBanor, and fearing to face the doom of the= Valar, since not all of them had been guiltless of the Kinslaying at Alqua= lond=EB. Moreover Fingon and Turgon were bold and fiery of heart, and loath= to abandon any task to which they had put their hands until the bitter end= , if bitter it must be. So the main host held on, and swiftly the evil that= was foretold began its work." Chapter 9 Of the Flight of the Noldor > So= what would happen if Fingolfin said he is coming back to Aman? He > was ca= lled the wise after all, he should make a wise decision. But he didn't, he= was bound by oath to F=EBanor. > Looking at Fingolfin's reaction after B= ragollah every death affected > him, so I guess Elwnwe's had a huge impact = on him, but maybe the > lost of Arakano in Lammoth was greater. Ehh... Fi= ngolfin didn't die during the Battle-under-Stars on the plains of Lammoth. = F=EBanor did. I think you are mixing up battles and locations. Actually Fin= golfin arrived long after this battle was over. Fingolfin died at Angband, = so I wonder who you meant here. > All depends what was seen as more tragic= - death on ice or in > battle? Going to Mandos freezing or in battle glor= y? I think it's all about what you as a reader values greater: the silent = cold death of your love or the valiant death while killing evil. Rhapsody = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 762 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31519 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 16:38:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 16:38:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.167) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 16:38:41 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 16:37:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 16:37:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 16:37:43 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:37:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=t_KMHgq0Su3HzwKRWSRJoyIZGKlfIUg9uz7NPDFYpFUC3OQw3Iw0JjQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > >> From this passage, it is obvious to infer that Elenwe was, in fact, = >> eaten by a bunch of carnivorous sea turtles. > > > Amen! this is so= me interesting stuff. I was always partial to the > idea that falling ice= broke her pretty neck, but this is good. And > no way can the canatics p= rove you wrong! (Just please don't joke > about Fingon being trampled int= o the bloody mire--that's where I > draw the line.) Well at least you ar= e not claiming that Elenwe never existed as I encountered a person who thou= ght that was the case (even with the canonical references..) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 763 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38664 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 16:38:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 16:38:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 16:38:27 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 16:36:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 16:36:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:36:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <032220070042.13088.4601D0E2000912340000332022155751140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=OXd-gsSwgovp4Y3K8qL9FkBucQTAeG7atlQEYdX49cqZnQc05wo-G_c X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > I think it's actually quite possible that _someone_ crossing the Ice > ha= d an extra change of clothes. Possibly, everyone did. They were > migratin= g to a new land, and even if The Silm does give the feeling > that they al= l sort of decided to leave pretty much in the instant > that Feanor gave h= is speech on the palace steps, it's always been my > personal belief that = people probably got supplies and affairs in > order before they left, even= if only a few hours or days were > spared. Which for an immortal Elf is p= robably next to > instantaneously (especially if they walk as slowly as th= ey do in the > LotR movies. ;) lol, I don't know Dawn, he (Feanor), didn't= wanted people to waste time. Don't forget that Feanor already arrived jour= neying from Formenos, so he didn't had many possessions himself, so he mus= t have had a secret stack somewhere ;) "At length after long debate F=EBan= or prevailed, and the greater part of the Noldor there assembled he set afl= ame with the desire of new things and strange countries. Therefore when Fin= arfin spoke yet again for heed and delay, a great shout went up: 'Nay, let = us be gone!' And straightway F=EBanor and his sons began to prepare for the= marching forth. Little foresight could there be for those who dared to tak= e so dark a road. Yet all was done in over-haste; for F=EBanor drove them o= n, fearing lest in the cooling of their hearts his words should wane and ot= her counsels yet prevail; and for all his proud words he did not forget the= power of the Valar." Hmmm. Over-haste doesn't say they could select and p= ack their necessary things. I'd say that people could pack their belongings= in the same time Feanor and his sons could. I can see them marshalling peo= ple, going from door to door, telling people to travel light and leave behi= nd big trunks and what more. I am going to give my theory, if they had mor= e than one set of clothes and it is in the hour of survival, why not strip = the death of their clothes and necessary blankets? Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 764 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74665 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 17:04:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 17:04:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 17:04:45 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 17:02:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 17:02:13 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:02:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=mjdIMnXMs3z-y8U7F0Q1xFk1mU6W7SAxOWnAoykenD3pk_W_qMbM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" > Yet= all was done in over-haste; for F=EBanor drove them on, > fearing lest in = the cooling of their hearts his words should wane and > other counsels yet = prevail; and for all his proud words he did not > forget the power of the V= alar." > > Hmmm. Over-haste doesn't say they could select and pack their >= necessary things. I'd say that people could pack their belongings in > the= same time Feanor and his sons could. I can see them marshalling > people, = going from door to door, telling people to travel light and > leave behind = big trunks and what more. But you're still allowing them to bring some bel= ongings? The issue I had was with the interpretation that the Noldor liste= ned to Feanor's speech and marched out of the city with naught but the cl= othes on their backs. I don't think that this is necessarily what _must_ h= ave happened (though I see no reason why it is not itself a valid interpre= tation); personally, I favor the notion that the Noldor journeyed with som= e measure of supplies. Feanor tells them, "Journey light: but bring with y= ou your swords!" To me, he is making some sort of concession to the fact t= hat they will all take a moment to stop at home, pick up a few things, and= then be on their way. Also, we have Finrod traveling with enough treasure= to pay the Dwarves; unless he carried this sort of thing around with him = all the time, then he must have taken a moment to stop somewhere and pick = it up. Also, I think that "over-haste" needs to be considered in the conte= xt of what the Noldor are trying to do. If I am planning to go away for t= he weekend, then a day's worth of planning and preparing is not over- haste= ; it's just about right. Now if I'm planning to move overseas to England f= or the rest of my life, then a day's worth of planning and preparing--in t= hat context--would certainly be over-haste. Considering that Feanor was mo= ving 90% of the Noldor over the ocean, in the dark, to a completely new la= nd, then I think that a mere month of preparations would have been over-ha= ste! :) My personal view is that they took several days, maybe a week, to = prepare themselves, which is nowhere near as long as would be sensible for= such an undertaking, imho. Though again, this is just my personal interp= retation. Others are equally valid; I've just yet to come up against hard = evidence--logical or canonical--that dismisses mine. Best wishes, Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 765 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60518 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 17:40:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 17:40:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.250) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 17:40:28 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n29.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 17:37:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 17:37:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 17:37:44 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:37:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Fp_5Lix1mhbPjs7GgsUuS6idKJWX9s3iXZbjnRyTFeZi3_TqHebbTnA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhaps= ody_the_bard" > > Yet all was done in over-haste; for F=EBanor drove them = on, > > fearing lest in the cooling of their hearts his words should wane a= nd > > other counsels yet prevail; and for all his proud words he did not >= > forget the power of the Valar." > > > > Hmmm. Over-haste doesn't say th= ey could select and pack their > > necessary things. I'd say that people co= uld pack their belongings in > > the same time Feanor and his sons could. I= can see them marshalling > > people, going from door to door, telling peop= le to travel light and > > leave behind big trunks and what more. > > But = you're still allowing them to bring some belongings? Yes, marshalling tend= s to cover that as well. Think of how the Rohirrim could break camp within = moments. > The issue I had was with the interpretation that the Noldor li= stened > to Feanor's speech and marched out of the city with naught but th= e > clothes on their backs. I don't think that this is necessarily what >= _must_ have happened (though I see no reason why it is not itself a > val= id interpretation); personally, I favor the notion that the > Noldor journ= eyed with some measure of supplies. Feanor tells them, > "Journey light: b= ut bring with you your swords!" To me, he is making > some sort of concessi= on to the fact that they will all take a moment > to stop at home, pick up = a few things, and then be on their way. Yes, within a day. Maybe hours, n= ot a month or a week. The point of the citation was that F=EBanor wanted to= get people moving while their hearts and minds were still rallied/hot/infl= amed. He did speak against Finarfin that any delay would not be allowed. A = month would be a huge delay for any leader. > Also, we have Finrod travel= ing with enough treasure to pay the > Dwarves; unless he carried this sort= of thing around with him all > the time, then he must have taken a moment= to stop somewhere and > pick it up. I wonder where that came from. I nev= er read it before. Don't forget that before Finrod wanted to build his dwel= ling Nargothrond, he lived in Hitlum for quite a while and founded Minas Ti= rith before that. The area is surrounded by mountains and any Noldo might h= ave gone digging for treasures. So no, there would be no time to go through= trunks (which he must have carried on his back, besides his bedroll, cloth= es, sword, rations...) to select treasures. I'd suspect he would spend time= with Amarie instead, and what was left of that besides councilling, urging= his dad to go *now*. > Also, I think that "over-haste" needs to be consid= ered in the > context of what the Noldor are trying to do. If I am plannin= g to go > away for the weekend, then a day's worth of planning and prepari= ng > is not overhaste; it's just about right. Now if I'm planning to move = > overseas to England for the rest of my life, then a day's worth of > pla= nning and preparing--in that context--would certainly be > over-haste. I = don't think you can compare the moment on the city square with a deliberate= planning to emigrate. Both are planned: a weekend away or emigration. This= decision was taken at the moment: now or never. > Considering that Feano= r was moving 90% of the Noldor over the ocean, > in the dark, to a complet= ely new land, then I think that a mere > month of preparations would have = been over-haste! :) You can start negotiations or preparing that in a mon= th: the Silmarillion passages, the heated debates with Olwe show nothing of= that kind: Feanor wanted to leave now and not tarry around for a month: he= feared any kind of delay. Nothing was planned, done in a hurry. The Silm a= lso says that later on in the journey to the East, Feanor realised he neede= d a fleet. > My personal view is that they took several days, maybe a week= , to > prepare themselves, which is nowhere near as long as would be > se= nsible for such an undertaking, imho. Yeah but that's the thing: you appro= ach this from a rational and sensible perspective. There was nothing ration= al about the flight of the Noldor. Finarfin tried by got gainsayed. > Tho= ugh again, this is just my personal interpretation. Others are > equally v= alid; I've just yet to come up against hard > evidence--logical or canonic= al--that dismisses mine. I did, shall I do it again? Here is more: "And = indeed when F=EBanor began the marshalling of the Noldor for their setting-= out, then at once dissension arose. For though he had brought the assembly = in a mind to depart, by no means all were of a mind to take F=EBanor as Kin= g. Greater love was given to Fingolfin and his sons, and his household and = the most part of the dwellers in Tirion refused to renounce him, if he woul= d go with them; and thus at the last as two divided hosts the Noldor set fo= rth upon their bitter road. F=EBanor and his following were in the van, but= the greater host came behind under Fingolfin; and he marched against his w= isdom, because Fingon his son *so urged* him, and because he would not be s= undered from his people that were eager to go, nor leave them to the rash c= ounsels of F=EBanor. Nor did he forget his words before the throne of Manw= =EB. With Fingolfin went Finarfin also and for like reasons; but most loath= was he to depart. And of all the Noldor in Valinor, who were grown now to = a great people, but one tithe refused to take the road: some for the love t= hat they bore to the Valar (and to Aul=EB not least), some for the love of = Tirion and the many things that they had made; none for fear of peril by th= e way." "In that *hour* the voice of F=EBanor grew so great and so potent = that even the herald of the Valar bowed before him as one full-answered, an= d departed; and the Noldor were over-ruled. Therefore they continued their = march; and the House of F=EBanor hastened before them along the coasts of E= lend=EB: not once did they turn their eyes back to Tirion on the green hill= of T=FAna. Slower and less eagerly came the host of Fingolfin after them. = Of those Fingon was the foremost; but at the rear went Finarfin and Finrod,= and many of the noblest and wisest of the Noldor; and often they looked be= hind them to see their fair city, until the lamp of the Mindon Eldali=E9va = was lost in the night. More than any others of the Exiles they carried then= ce memories of the bliss they had forsaken, and some even of the things tha= t they had made there they took with them: a solace and a burden on the roa= d." "Now F=EBanor led the Noldor northward, because his first purpose was = to follow Morgoth. Moreover T=FAna beneath Taniquetil was set nigh to the g= irdle of Arda, and there the Great Sea was immeasurably wide, whereas ever = northward the sundering seas grew narrower, as the wasteland of Araman and = the coasts of Middle-earth drew together. *But as the mind of F=EBanor cool= ed and took counsel he perceived overlate* that all these great companies w= ould never overcome the long leagues to the north, nor cross the seas at th= e last, save with the aid of ships; yet it would need long time and toil to= build so great a fleet, even were there any among the Noldor skilled in th= at craft." The host was divided in 3 parts, Finarfin taking the longest, b= ut given that Finrod rallied his dad in leaving asap, I don't believe an mo= nth or a week sounds reasonable. A greek army of ten thousand men could lea= ve within a morning, this includes breaking camp as well. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 766 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86446 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 17:37:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 17:37:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.59) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 17:37:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 17:36:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 17:36:20 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:36:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Speaking of bad boys, a SSP ;) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=g4XmDYp5g3GowYPKwjpAnobYcEFmOL-rZMwkKHJuToGTHCY_waeqgZua X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > > > Well, not many readers or feedback so far. So I'd= probably messed up > somewhere with this story, so don't be surprised if i= t is pulled > offline soonish when I will try to figure out what is wrong w= ith it. > > Where can I find "Requiem"? I apologize if it is in an obvio= us place but I don't recall the name and I'm always ready to try anything = with Feanor's boys in it. Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 767 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66216 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 17:54:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 17:54:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 17:54:06 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6928A748080 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:54:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:54:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:53:59 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1639018382.20070323185359@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <1364893954.20070322123829@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=X-fxf9XTDMKoRrlIFERAmljxXUsL74OZwzC43mx2lmIC4CROGS4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, >> Looking at Fingolfin's reaction after Bragollah every de= ath affected >> him, so I guess Elwnwe's had a huge impact on him, but may= be the >> lost of Arakano in Lammoth was greater. > Ehh... Fingolfin d= idn't die during the Battle-under-Stars on the > plains of Lammoth. F=EBan= or did. I think you are mixing up battles and > locations. Actually Fingol= fin arrived long after this battle was over. > Fingolfin died at Angband, = so I wonder who you meant here. Arakano, the youngest son of Fingolfin, me= ntioned in HoME XII - he died in the Lammoth Battle, the first encounter of= Fingolfin's Host with orcs. The tallest of Fingolfin's children and the mo= st valiant one. I can't quote anything for I have nothing with me here, but= maybe anyone else can provide it - in The Shibboleth of Feanor if I rememb= er well. More later, have to run! ;) Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 769 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95683 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 19:01:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 19:01:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 19:01:21 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 19:01:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 19:01:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 19:01:14 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:01:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1639018382.20070323185359@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Mothername Fingolfin vs fathername son (Re: Freezing) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=1YfA9SQWOUDT9qWFPPyFAsK4TVdWrcq-IeflJQhgyn_N6CGMwp3A_Sk X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai Rhapsody, It can't be that bad? ;) Or is Celegorm being nasty = to you? >>> Looking at Fingolfin's reaction after Bragollah every death = >>> affected him, so I guess Elwnwe's had a huge impact on him, but >>> ma= ybe the lost of Arakano in Lammoth was greater. > >> Ehh... Fingolfin did= n't die during the Battle-under-Stars on the >> plains of Lammoth. F=EBanor= did. I think you are mixing up battles >> and locations. Actually Fingolf= in arrived long after this battle >> was over. Fingolfin died at Angband, = so I wonder who you meant >> here. > > Arakano, the youngest son of Fingo= lfin, mentioned in HoME XII - he > died in the Lammoth Battle, the first en= counter of Fingolfin's Host > with orcs. The tallest of Fingolfin's childre= n and the most valiant > one. I can't quote anything for I have nothing wit= h me here, but > maybe anyone else can provide it - in The Shibboleth of F= eanor if I > remember well. I know Arakano or Arac=E1no is Fingolfin's mo= thername and since it is a given that I always get lost once I have to reme= mber names *outside* the House of Finwe... If I recall my notes correctly t= his host of Orcs were driven away at the end of the battle, but the battle = was over, thusly they were overwhelmed by them and did not face them in bat= tle as the commanders F=EBanor and Celegorm did. Cracking open HOME XII, p= age 345 and I read: 4. The children of Fingolfin. Fingolfin's wife Anaire = refused to leave Aman, largely because of her friendship with Earwen wife o= f Arafinwe (though she was a Noldo and not one of the Teleri). But all her = children went with their father: Findekano, Turukano, Arakano, and Irisse h= is daughter and third child; she was under the protection of Turukano who l= oved her dearly, and of Elenwe his wife.(34) Findekano had no wife or child= ;(35) neither had Arakano. These names were probably fathernames, though Ar= akano had been the mothername of Fingolfin. Kano meant in Quenya 'commander= ', usually as the title of a lesser chief, especially one acting as the dep= uty of one higher in rank.(36) The Sindarizing of these names as Fingon and= Turgon shows knowledge of the soundchanges distinguishing Sindarin from Te= lerin, but disregards meaning. If these names had actually been ancient Sin= darin names they would at the time of the coming of the Exiles have taken t= he forms Fingon and Turgon, but they would not have had their Quenya meanin= gs, if interpretable at all. Possibly they would have conveyed 'Hair-shout'= and 'Master-shout' [see note 36]. Arakano was the tallest of the brother= s and the most impetuous, but his name was never changed to Sindarin form, = for he perished in the first battle of Fingolfin's host with the Orks, the = Battle of the Lammoth (but the Sindarin form Argon was often later given as= a name by Noldor and Sindar in memory of his valour).(38) Notes, lovely = notes: 30. [In earlier texts (see X.265 note 10) the name Ingoldo was the m= other-name of Nolofinwe (Fingolfin), 'signifying that he came of both the k= in of the Ingar and of the Noldor'; while the mother- name of Arafinwe (Fin= arfin) was Ingalaure 'for he had the golden hair of his mother's people'. A= part from the first one, the genealogical tables give Fingolfin and Finarfi= n the mother-names Arakano and Ingoldo as here.] 38. The third son of Fin= golfin, Arakano (Argon), emerged in the course of the making of the genealo= gies. A pencilled note on the last of the four tables says that he fell in = the fighting at Alqualonde; this was struck out, and my father noted that a= preferable story was that he perished in the Ice. It is curious that this = third son, of whom there had never before been any mention, entered (as it = seems) without a story, and the manner of his death was twice changed befor= e the remarkable appearance here of 'the first battle of Fingolfin's host w= ith the Orks, the Battle of the Lammoth', in which he fell. In the account = in the Grey Annals (XI.30) Fingolfin, after the passage of the Helkaraxe, '= marched from the North unopposed through the fastness of the realm of Morgo= th, and he passed over Dor-Daedeloth, and his foes hid beneath the earth'; = whereas in the present note his host was attacked in Lammoth 'at unawares a= s they marched southwards' (see the map, XI.182).] It feels like Tolkien = couldn't make up his mind where Argon was supposed to die. > More later, h= ave to run! ;) Nooooo!!! Darn! :P Btw when I was scanning over it, I notic= ed this: 5. The children of Finarfin. These were named: Findarato Ingoldo= ; Angarato; Aikanaro; and Nerwende Artanis, surnamed Alatariel. The wife of= Angarato was named Eldalote, and his son Artaher. The most renowned of the= se were the first and the fourth (the only daughter), and only of these two= are the mother-names remembered. The names of Sindarin form by which they = were usually called in later song and legend were Finrod, Angrod (with wife= Edellos and son Arothir), Aegnor, and Galadriel. In the next stage my fa= ther (recalling, apparently, the story in the Grey Annals) noted that Finro= d 'had no child {he left his wife in Aman)', and moved Artanaro Rhodothir t= o become, still in the same generation, the son of Finrod's brother Angrod = (who with Aegnor held the heights of Dorthonion and was slain in the Battle= of Sudden Flame). Angrod being married and a son who survives the battle = of the Sudden Flame! *ignores charming bunny* Still that gives me hope :) = Rhapsody (ai all those names!) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 770 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79448 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 19:09:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 19:09:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 19:09:06 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 19:07:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 19:07:47 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:07:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=tkb0bjTd8mu8FHlaFFK3XLeKY9yJPDxYgpfHqtvYP0cMu1HVpZO_ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > I wonder where that came from. I never read it before= . Don't forget > that before Finrod wanted to build his dwelling Nargothron= d, he lived > in Hitlum for quite a while and founded Minas Tirith before = that. The > area is surrounded by mountains and any Noldo might have gone = digging > for treasures. So no, there would be no time to go through trunk= s > (which he must have carried on his back, besides his bedroll, clothes,= > sword, rations...) to select treasures. I'd suspect he would spend > tim= e with Amarie instead, and what was left of that besides > councilling, urg= ing his dad to go *now*. It's in "Of the Return of the Noldor": "In that = labour Finrod was aided by the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains; and they wer= e rewarded well, for Finrod had brought more treasures out of Tirion than = any other of the princes of the Noldor." So yes, it came from Tirion. So, = as I said, unless he makes a habit of going about with enough gold in his = back pocket to pay for a realm to be built, then he must have stopped to g= ather it, pack it, and bring it along. :) > I don't think you can compare= the moment on the city square with a > deliberate planning to emigrate. Bo= th are planned: a weekend away or > emigration. This decision was taken at= the moment: now or never. Okay, we'll scratch the word "plan" then. :) "O= ver-haste" needs to be considered in the context of what was being done. I= f I am moving an entire population of people to a new country, then "over-= haste" emcompasses a bit more time than if I am setting out by myself. Mo= ving an entire people with less than a year's worth of preparations--espec= ially given the circumstances, traveling just after the death of the Trees= --is, in my opinion, over-haste. In short, I do not think that "over-haste= " is in anyway synonymous with "instantaneous." It has to be considered in= the context of the task being untaken, which was my point with drawing a = comparison between a weekend holiday and a life-long emigration: "over-has= te" would be defined very differently in each situation. > Yeah but that'= s the thing: you approach this from a rational and > sensible perspective. = There was nothing rational about the flight of > the Noldor. Finarfin trie= d by got gainsayed. Well, rational and sensible, imo, would have several y= ears of planning. Moving an entire population to a new country even a week= after Feanor's speech is neither rational nor sensible. Moving out an en= tire people in the moments following the speech is downright deadly. The = people still needed food and provisions, and all of this was being done in= the dark. We have in the canon that horses and treasure were brought from= Tirion. Given this, I cannot believe that no one thought to pack clothing= , blankets, waterskins, food, and a first-aid kit. ;) I'm going to offer = the section between Feanor's speech and the moment that they set out on th= e road from Tirion. This is the time span that is under question; I mainta= in that it is within the bounds of canon (though certainly not the only in= terpretation) to assert that several days passed between Feanor's speech a= nd the Noldor departing Tirion, during which they made simple preparations= for leaving, such as gathering supplies. After the Oath of Feanor, we ha= ve a lengthy debate right away about the best way to proceed with things. = What is lengthy? Well, this is everyone's right to decide ... for me, leng= thy is several hours at least. But I am a mortal Human; who knows what is = "lengthy" to an immortal Elf with all of the time in the world. "At lengt= h after long debate F=EBanor prevailed, and the greater part of the Noldor= there assembled he set aflame with the desire of new things and strange c= ountries." Now Feanor is back to talking again. He rambles more than me! ;= ) But this is still yet more time spent. "Therefore when Finarfin spoke y= et again for heed and delay, a great shout went up: 'Nay, let us be gone!'= And straightway F=EBanor and his sons began to prepare for the marching f= orth." Finarfin asks for a greater delay. He's probably thinking, as I am,= that such an undertaking would best be done with a year or more to assur= e that everyone is ready and prepared for the trip. However, this passage = does not itself show that Feanor was advocating that the Noldor march out = from Tirion _in that very instant._ It is showing that Finarfin wishes the= m to give more thought than Feanor to what they are about to undertake. I= n the next sentence, the Feanorions "began to prepare for the marching for= th." Again, though, what is "prepare"? I read this as gathering supplies t= hat they will need on the road, thus allowing time for those marching with= them to do the same. Of course, one could just as easily argue that "bega= n to prepare" meant lining up everyone alphabetically in two parallel line= s and starting to walk, but my point is that this passage does not dismiss= the notion that the Noldor prepared a bit for their departure ... in fact= , it almost supports it. Now we get to the bit about "over-haste" ... "L= ittle foresight could there be for those who dared to take so dark a road.= Yet all was done in over-haste; for F=EBanor drove them on, fearing lest = in the cooling of their hearts his words should wane and other counsels ye= t prevail ..." But I will not bore you with anything further on this. :) I= still maintain that "in over-haste" does _not_ mean "in that exact moment= " and that it must be considered in the context of what is being undertak= en. Now the bit about cooling hearts ... yes, this is why Feanor needed t= he Noldor out of Tirion quickly. But again, I do not think that this neces= sarily supports that it needed to be instantaneous. The hearts of the Nold= or were not going to cool quickly. Their King had been murdered, the Trees= had been killed, and their finest treasures had been robbed by an individ= ual whom the Valar gave leave to roam freely in their land. They were goin= g to stay angry for a good, long while. Consider examples from modern lif= e: How long did peoples' hearts cool following 9/11 or the train bombings = in London or Madrid? I still cry on these anniversaries; I am still bitter= ly angry over things that allowed these events to happen in the first plac= e. Yet none of these events had anywhere near the personal impact on me t= hat the death of the Trees had on the Eldar. So I think that Feanor had a = few days before the impetus of passion and anger wore off and forced the N= oldor to slow down and consider what they were doing. Again, this is just = my personal interpretation. But I don't see anything in canon or logic to = disprove it. *little snip* "[Manwe] would not yet either forbid or hinde= r F=EBanor's purpose; for the Valar were aggrieved that they were charged = with evil intent to the Eldar, or that any were held captive by them again= st their will. Now they watched and waited, for they did not yet believe t= hat F=EBanor could hold the host of the Noldor to his will." Here, the Va= lar are watching and waiting. If the Noldor marched right out of Tirion, t= hen what were they waiting for? "And indeed when F=EBanor began the marsha= lling of the Noldor for their setting-out, then at once dissension arose."= _Now_ Feanor _begins_ to lead the Noldor from the city. I find this inte= resting because "began to prepare" and "began the marshalling" are very di= stinct in this section. If the preparing that his sons were doing early wa= s synonymous with marshalling/leading the Noldor from Tirion, then why the= distinction? How much time passes between them? Of course, we don't know = ... And this is the point where the Noldor are _further_ delayed by debat= e, this time over who is the rightful king. *snip the debate over kingship= * "... and thus at the last as two divided hosts the Noldor set forth upo= n their bitter road." Now they are finally departing. So between Feanor's = speech, the Noldor have had a debate over the best way to proceed, the Fe= anorians have "began to prepare" (while the Valar wait to see what is goin= g to happen), Feanor has "began the marshalling," the Noldor have had anot= her debate over who is the rightful king, and finally, they leave the city= . This is the timeframe for which I am concerned, and except for a few se= ntences that are not relevant, this is the whole passage from the speaking= of the Oath until the Noldor pass through the gates of the city. The pas= sage where Feanor tells off the herald of Manwe ("In that hour the voice o= f F=EBanor grew so great and so potent") occurs when the Noldor are in the= process of leaving Tirion; Feanor has already passed through the gates ("= But even as the trumpet sang and F=EBanor issued from the gates of Tirion = a messenger came at last from Manw=EB"). And so events at this point do no= t address the amount of time it took for the Noldor to leave Tirion follow= ing Feanor's first speech; they have already left. The same goes for Fean= or's behavior at Alqualonde; the Noldor are already on the road and so wha= t occurred there does little to answer how long it took them to get on the= road in the first place. > The host was divided in 3 parts, Finarfin taki= ng the longest, but > given that Finrod rallied his dad in leaving asap, I = don't believe an > month or a week sounds reasonable. And that's certain= ly your right! I am not claiming that my interpretation is the only one ou= t there; I recognize that it is not and am fully respectful of those who c= hoose to interpret the relevant passages differently. But I've still yet t= o see concrete evidence that the Noldor marched right off the palace steps= and out the gate. Furthermore, seeing as this discussion arose because o= f the question of what (if any) supplies the Noldor would have had upon th= e Helcaraxe, that Fingolfin and Finarfin's people took longer yet to leav= e Tirion lends support to the idea that it is quite likely that they did h= ave extra clothes, blankets, and basic provisions upon the Ice. > A greek= army of ten thousand men > could leave within a morning, this includes bre= aking camp as well. But we are not talking about an army--who maintains a = certain degree of preparedness at all times, even when not in battle--but = a group of civilians who, before Feanor's speech, had no doubt that they'd= be living out their days in Tirion. Add the chaos and the darkness (whic= h many of the Noldor had never experienced) and the high emotions surround= ing Finwe's murder and the death of the Trees, and I don't think it's prac= tical to hold Noldorin civilians to the same standards as the Greek army. = But that is just my personal interpretation. :) In conclusion, we have ca= non evidence that the Noldor brought horses and treasure from Valinor to B= eleriand. The passages between the Oath and the moment when Feanor actuall= y passes through the gates of Tirion contain no concrete time references b= ut do contain a number of passages that are curious or open to interpretat= ion. And so I still believe that multiple interpretations of the timeframe= involved here are possible. :) And anyone who has made it to the end of = this dissertation deserves an Elf cookie! Have a nice weekend, Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 771 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60650 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 19:16:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 19:16:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.117) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 19:16:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 96352 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Mar 2007 19:16:05 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: pMQQN0gVM1mL72F95xrbZFPGUrqUQLSv.P2WYivki6uIPFegt.ySG4UPQiU1a_BeZ7QmGiR9wDD76J_yIvbBvVSa0pOorhYJn3LEKWOwh.zbK7QDNsm_N.TfGkJUQmGzeJaX3__B3D6oJvoviStzh9rd Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:16:05 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:16:05 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1639018382.20070323185359@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1132163910-1174677365=:95832" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <620472.95832.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Arakano/Pointless thought (was: freezing) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=dLOZpmDVrQ-DdLseb_GomlMv4rrU7f5Pfk5qSnmgz6gVNz_QXaPejeg X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1132163910-1174677365=:95832 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Arakano of Questionable Existence... Personally, I just like to keep him in the non-existent fashion as he appears (rather, does not appear) in The Silmarillion. Nothing personal but...I just can't take any character seriously whose Sindarin name (Argon) is also one of the elements on the periodic table, even if it *is* a noble gas! ;-) /end random pointless thought ~T�rion --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. --0-1132163910-1174677365=:95832 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Arakano of Questionable Existence... Personally, I just like to keep him in the non-existent fashion as he appears (rather, does not appear) in The Silmarillion. Nothing personal but...I just can't take any character seriously whose Sindarin name (Argon) is also one of the elements on the periodic table, even if it *is* a noble gas! ;-)

/end random pointless thought


~T�rion

No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. --0-1132163910-1174677365=:95832-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 772 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40711 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 19:17:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 19:17:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 19:17:43 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.c56.10d87554 (41811) for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:11:42 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174677102" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mothername Fingolfin vs fathername son (Re: Fr... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=zrbm2rJ0aqDtXNv4PHKWQcWadlJ3Yz8sbV3rX1a0zbljbJP-3kJs X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174677102 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (ai all those names!) It gets kind of overwhelming. I just left Arakano out of my version of this world. Too much to keep track of since I am working on a stories which seems to be ending up with me expecting the reader to keep track of all the cousins... ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174677102 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
(ai all those names!)
It gets kind of overwhelming. I just left Arakan= o out of my version of this world. Too much to keep track of since I am wo= rking on a stories which seems to be ending up with me expecting the reade= r to keep track of all the cousins... 



<= FONT style=3D"color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;">
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more= about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174677102-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 773 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33821 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 19:31:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 19:31:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.23) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 19:31:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 19:27:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 19:27:30 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:27:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <620472.95832.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Arakano/Pointless thought (was: freezing) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=S_0XNwK4wH5js-4xBBpbYbv6wMd-qJygxBeLjt44dAK7K-O5M-LD1CQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore wrote: > > Arakano of Questionable Existence... Personally, I jus= t like to keep > him in the non-existent fashion as he appears (rather, do= es not > appear) in The Silmarillion. Nothing personal but...I just can't = > take any character seriously whose Sindarin name (Argon) is also one > of= the elements on the periodic table, even if it *is* a noble gas! > ;-) L= OL!!! I wonder where this leaves Orodreth for example. Wasn't he.. *thinks*= Finarfin's son? I always remember the family trees in the Silm, and Argon = isnt on there. That's why he slips my mind I guess. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 774 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38499 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 19:36:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 19:36:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.22) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 19:36:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 19:35:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 19:35:25 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:35:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=CVM0Yme44euNr_ZtEVNpmlcJ7DEwFQlvR0rOb83uRir8a0ol8SIvvOs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhaps= ody_the_bard" > wrote: > > > And= anyone who has made it to the end of this dissertation deserves > an Elf = cookie! Yay! The thing is, we can discuss endlessly about semantics of wor= ds. Over haste does not tell me, oh let's wait for a while and see if we le= ave the next month. Shall we add this one to the, by now, long list of ques= tions to ask of the professor if we could? I see them march in a day, you g= ive them a month (I think Turko is rubbing off on me in that respect wantin= g things now!) Finrod has a bag of holding*, F=EBanor wanted out and dragg= ed everone along under the promise of dancing dolphins ;) Rhapsody * in D&= D, a bag of holding is a popular magical item, capable of containing a lot = more than one would expect. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 775 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52174 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 19:46:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 19:46:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 19:46:11 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.c69.e84f283 (41811) for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:42:17 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174678937" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Arakano/Pointless thought (was: freezing) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=wBQzpaEZUcWjJ8ZtFvHjBLTxcSaApckAUncAm-KY_CP3WJ4gvESQ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174678937 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/23/2007 2:31:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes: Orodreth for example Poor guy! Not a much-loved character. Convenient only for those who are looking for a father for Gil-Galad (other than Fingon). Presumably he fell after Finrod in birth order because he ruled Nargothrond after Finrod. Also father of Finduilas (not the same one who mothered Faramir and Boromir-hehehe). (Hey, who said my canon was spotty. Not everybody has searchable copies of HoME!!) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174678937 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/23/2007 2:31:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com w= rites:
Orodreth for example
Poor guy! Not a much-loved character. Conve= nient only for those who are looking for a father for Gil-Galad (other tha= n Fingon). Presumably he fell after Finrod in birth order because he = ruled Nargothrond after Finrod. Also father of Finduilas (not the same one= who mothered Faramir and Boromir-hehehe). (Hey, who said my canon was spo= tty. Not everybody has searchable copies of HoME!!)


AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find o= ut more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174678937-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 776 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32209 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 19:47:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 19:47:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 19:47:14 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.c86.d7b97ce (41811) for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:46:50 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174679210" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=k8l_gdueR26svhFsFoiOy3iFklU7LxYPuHh2anAHqNEvfVVcy5-k X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174679210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/23/2007 2:12:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: And anyone who has made it to the end of this dissertation deserves an Elf cookie! I'll take that cookie whenever it's convenient. Meanwhile, I tend to agree with your arguments that an "instaneous" move of this nature would require some considerable amount of time and organization. Having lived through the great New York City blackout of a couple of years ago, I can completely appreciate the inconvenience over the loss of the Trees! (And, I moved from one country to another in a very short period of time once and spent years mourning lost books and abandoned small kitchen applicances!) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174679210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/23/2007 2:12:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.n= et writes:
And anyone who has made it t= o the end of this dissertation deserves
an Elf cookie!
I'll take that cookie whenever it's convenien= t. Meanwhile, I tend to agree with your arguments that an "instaneous= " move of this nature would require some considerable amount of time = and organization. Having lived through the great New York City blackout of= a couple of years ago, I can completely appreciate the inconvenience over= the loss of the Trees! (And, I moved from one country to anothe= r in a very short period of time once and spent years mourning lost books = and abandoned small kitchen applicances!)  


=
=
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find= out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174679210-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 777 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45043 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 20:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 20:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.60) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 20:21:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 20:20:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 20:20:48 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:20:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Arakano/Pointless thought (was: freezing) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=UjFyM2iH_ClvuUA9wtdFcTikqv1BTqOLWRZyRstsg2tLNp0rpqiyCOI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > In a message dated 3/23/2007 2:31:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rh= apsody74@... writes: > >> Orodreth for example > > > Poor guy! Not a muc= h-loved character. Convenient only for those who > are looking for a father= for Gil-Galad (other than Fingon). > Presumably he fell after Finrod in b= irth order because he ruled > Nargothrond after Finrod. Well yes after C= elegorm and Curufin were banned, in between they ruled Narhothrond for a wh= ile after Finrod left. ;) > Also father of Finduilas (not the same one wh= o mothered Faramir and > Boromir-hehehe). > (Hey, who said my canon was = spotty. Not everybody has searchable > copies of HoME!!) The index to HO= ME is my best friend. It's a thick volume but it's worth the money because = quickly you can see where your character pops up. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 778 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1209 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 21:28:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 21:28:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.120) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 21:28:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 2019 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Mar 2007 21:26:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: V1sAoG0VM1kQyBUrpJeXy1ohuICd1H3a3_Ic6ComXr6nOvsekoYCD1xSm3KVT31qnQ-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:26:16 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:26:16 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-766333655-1174685176=:2006" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <751330.2006.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=EmafRonm5ToKd5H7cymAn-FuYdR3UdGWTNxWUx_wCADX15HzRJj_XA8 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-766333655-1174685176=:2006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I get an elf cookie!! ^__^ On Finrod's treasure...perhaps we should think in relative terms here too. More than the other princes - that doesn't say much if the other princes were all more practical and didn't bring much "treasure". Also, it could be that the Tirion treasure is worth a lot more to the dwarves than its relative value to an Elf of Tirion. A piece of Elven gold from the Valinor, a place where the dwarves can't go. Plus, the Noldor were favored by Aule, who created the dwarves, so it's possible that Noldorin treasure might have some kind of religious value, making it much more valuable than the gold itself. Or maybe there was even a trinket made by Aule himself and given to Finrod at some festival when he was young - even more valuable!! Just a thought - not even sure if it's my interpretation! ;-) - but it could explain Finrod's payment method without having Finrod filling his pillowcase with coins & jewels instead of feathers and lug it across the Helcaraxe. At any rate, to quote Captain Jack Sparrow, "Not all treasure comes in silver and gold, mate." ;-) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. --0-766333655-1174685176=:2006 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I get an elf cookie!! ^__^

On Finrod's treasure...perhaps we should think in relative terms here too. More than the other princes - that doesn't say much if the other princes were all more practical and didn't bring much "treasure". Also, it could be that the Tirion treasure is worth a lot more to the dwarves than its relative value to an Elf of Tirion. A piece of Elven gold from the Valinor, a place where the dwarves can't go. Plus, the Noldor were favored by Aule, who created the dwarves, so it's possible that Noldorin treasure might have some kind of religious value, making it much more valuable than the gold itself. Or maybe there was even a trinket made by Aule himself and given to Finrod at some festival when he was young - even more valuable!!

Just a thought - not even sure if it's my interpretation! ;-) - but it could explain Finrod's payment method without having Finrod filling his pillowcase with coins & jewels instead of feathers and lug it across the Helcaraxe.

At any rate, to quote Captain Jack Sparrow, "Not all treasure comes in silver and gold, mate." ;-)


~T�rion

Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. --0-766333655-1174685176=:2006-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 779 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70520 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 21:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 21:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 21:46:59 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 21:46:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 21:46:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 21:46:43 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:46:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <751330.2006.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=PulbF5SvCQdq_Y0odFuEgAX9mxWmz-ngWwLC32qyOisE7ujXAHmUj-U X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore wrote: > > I get an elf cookie!! ^__^ > > On Finrod's treasure.= ..perhaps we should think in relative terms > here too. More than the othe= r princes - that doesn't say much if the > other princes were all more pra= ctical and didn't bring much > "treasure". Also, it could be that the Tiri= on treasure is worth a > lot more to the dwarves than its relative value t= o an Elf of Tirion. > A piece of Elven gold from the Valinor, a place where= the dwarves > can't go. Plus, the Noldor were favored by Aule, who create= d the > dwarves, so it's possible that Noldorin treasure might have some = > kind of religious value, making it much more valuable than the gold > it= self. Or maybe there was even a trinket made by Aule himself and > given t= o Finrod at some festival when he was young - even more > valuable!! Oh = yeah, great analogy. I wonder how Noldor coin would look like and whose hea= d would be on it. Hmmmm :) > Just a thought - not even sure if it's my in= terpretation! ;-) - but > it could explain Finrod's payment method without= having Finrod > filling his pillowcase with coins & jewels instead of fea= thers and > lug it across the Helcaraxe. LOL true! It just seems extra w= eight to drag along with you under very harsh conditions. > At any rate, = to quote Captain Jack Sparrow, "Not all treasure comes > in silver and gol= d, mate." ;-) *nods* True! Maybe his valuable items came in flasks and bot= tles... Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 780 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26758 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 22:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 22:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.127) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 22:21:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 33076 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Mar 2007 22:19:17 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: i1xFlsYVM1mNBf9xqPbpC5NoBep_sfe1PDV0nlO7BnPTH3KaxmSdjoif2gW9jgC3SQ-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:19:17 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:19:17 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-825615047-1174688357=:32723" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <738345.32723.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=vZ6LAWwFFyr3yflhkzehpG3UTAPi8XCwsYBS4mezutnWmhX2vEbPlKs X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-825615047-1174688357=:32723 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I wonder how Noldor coin would look like and whose head would be on it. Whoever's head it would be, it's bound to be more handsome than an American coin! ;-) I wonder if Melkor tried to make counterfeit money with *his* head on it! >> LOL true! It just seems extra weight to drag along with you under very harsh conditions. I agree. Even if I had a lot of time to plan, if I were going to be walking/riding a long way, copious amounts of jewels/coins/traditional treasure would not be on my list of things to pack! ~T�rion --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. --0-825615047-1174688357=:32723 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I wonder how Noldor coin would look like and whose head would be on it.

Whoever's head it would be, it's bound to be more handsome than an American coin! ;-)

I wonder if Melkor tried to make counterfeit money with *his* head on it!

>> LOL true! It just seems extra weight to drag along with you under very harsh conditions.

I agree. Even if I had a lot of time to plan, if I were going to be walking/riding a long way, copious amounts of jewels/coins/traditional treasure would not be on my list of things to pack!



~T�rion

Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. --0-825615047-1174688357=:32723-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 781 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86652 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 22:46:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 22:46:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.183) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 22:46:38 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 22:45:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 22:45:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 22:45:08 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:45:06 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=r3ho0oJxgPLRLRiwVwCi-h-nqt3vdur5q_54cDLKqsmKiZo_1VE X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Yay! I get an elf cookie! This whole series of discussions has made for so= me very interesting reading! It's amazing where asking one simple question = can lead... Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 782 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43397 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 23:13:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 23:13:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 23:13:16 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2.go2.pl [193.17.41.42]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 3A92A230012 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:13:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A7A7748078 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:10:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:10:40 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:10:41 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <502910007.20070324001041@tlen.pl> To: Tarion Anarore In-Reply-To: <738345.32723.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <738345.32723.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=FdUuXbZlw_5WPO39vhVgOCtd5OtQYqbad2lL4jbMNFYRCCgRA0Q X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle >>>I wonder how Noldor coin would look like and whose head would be on it. > Whoever's head it would be, it's bound to be more handsome than an American coin! ;-) > I wonder if Melkor tried to make counterfeit money with *his* head on it! Money are human invention, IMHO no coins in Aman nor Beleriand. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 783 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81809 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 23:59:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 23:59:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.246) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 23:59:23 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 23:58:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2007 23:58:07 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 23:58:06 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=OGm938sGFCs7LxYEazfGNlDn3Fv7Z33DF7o0VnFL7cfmIh1YpBEy88c X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "ellfine2000" wrote: > > Yay! I get an elf cookie! > > This whole series of discussio= ns has made for some very interesting > reading! It's amazing where asking = one simple question can lead... If you are not careful you end up with a t= ruckload of bunnies (although I think they by now they breed like tribbles)= , all so sweet and nice. So many people, so many angles and perspectives: I= just love it. :c) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 784 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38749 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 00:11:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 00:11:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.30) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 00:11:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 00:11:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 00:11:39 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:11:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <502910007.20070324001041@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=BcnAp63PF8PPaNeymk33T9OGvpEv0yRr65Yzab5KWdDnlrQyedyM7Gs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle wr= ote: > >>>>I wonder how Noldor coin would look like and whose head would be= >>>> on it. > >>> Whoever's head it would be, it's bound to be more hands= ome than an >>> American coin! ;-) > >> I wonder if Melkor tried to make = counterfeit money with *his* head > on it! > > Money are human invention, = IMHO no coins in Aman nor Beleriand. Have you read this? http://www.shirep= ost.com/CoinQuotes.html This is what Michael Martinez says: : This is som= ething I am kinda curious about. What money are used : in middle-earth... o= f course that is a pretty easy question. : But in what value are each coin,= e.g how much is a silver : piece worht in copper? How common are various m= aterials? There are gold, silver, and possibly copper coins in Middle-eart= h. There is insufficient information to form a valuation system, however. I= 've scanned some of the replies you got and have to agree with Martin for t= he most part. If you'd like to know where money is referred to, check out = "A Knife in the Dark" in THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING. Barliman has to compen= sate people for the loss of their horses and ponies and he pays in silver p= ennies. In the story about Thror's death Tolkien wrote that Azog threw out = a bag with a few coins of little value to Nar, Thror's companion. Bilbo lu= gged back a couple of bags of gold to the Shire -- presumably there were go= ld coins in the bags. There is indeed an Elvish word for "gold coin", kulus= ta. The Merchants of Middle-earth: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tol= kien/28208 For the first agers amongst us: "The Elven equivalents for thar= ni and castar were canath (from kanat-, 'four') and mirian (from mir, 'a je= wel or precious thing'). "The Etymologies" provides a root-word, mbakh, mea= ning 'exchange', from which words for 'trade', 'tradesman', and 'commerce' = were derived in Qenya (the precursor to Quenya). There were also words for = 'pedlar' and 'ware' in Noldorin (Sindarin). That the ancient languages of = Middle-earth acknowledged trade and commerce implies that Tolkien gave some= thought to the economic activities of the early Elves and Dwarves, althoug= h he did not provide details of these activities. We don't actually know if= money was used in Beleriand, for example, although Cirdan reportedly trade= d or gave pearls to Thingol, who in turn supplied them to the Dwarves of Er= ed Luin (the Firebeards and Broadbeams of Nogrod and Belegost). The Dwarve= s built roads throughout Middle-earth early in its history. The Dwarves of = Ered Luin built one or two roads leading to Doriath, and the road eventuall= y extended all the way to Nargothrond (which they helped to build). Dwarven= trade passed through the Dor Caranthir, and Caranthir is said to have beco= me wealthy because of this. So he presumably charged tolls or fees of some = sort in exchange for ensuring the roads remained safe. He may also have sup= plied the Dwarves with food, since in The Peoples of Middle-earth we are to= ld the Dwarves did not grow their own food. The Dwarves only helped build = two cities in Beleriand of which we know (Menegroth and Nargothrond). The N= oldor had their own stonemasonry to rely upon and they presumably built the= ir towers of stone without Dwarven help. But the Dwarves and Noldor exchang= ed knowledge and forged goods, it seems. The potential for trade is thus co= nsuiderable, at least in eastern Beleriand. Beyond Beleriand the Dwarves h= ad a road system extending at least from Ered Luin all the way to the Iron = Hills and apparently beyond. The Dwarves apparently engaged in some sort of= trade with Avari and Nandorin Elves as well as Edainic Men, but we don't k= now if money was a medium of exchange or if barter of goods and service was= the primary means of commerce." So yeah, there was a Quenyan word for it,= the professor didn't give it that much thought. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 785 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70316 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 00:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 00:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.32) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 00:41:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 79275 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2007 00:41:04 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: uq5vv6EVM1kP9fiLtPFrBP02bOxg8v74UuvmFgUrYcZe2fpNHUzmmCpcshBR99RRf5uAgmaGK0v3vRoR1mwAIatoCWIMnDRp3zY2gNwHA2jXot9WARgIYRuG0BRgWIhQ513LyvAGDuCeWawEJLM2Zm1_PQ-- Received: from [206.251.9.39] by web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:41:03 GMT Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:41:03 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <13397.57847.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2042206549-1174696863=:79222" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <995507.79222.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=QhHJ7zRRgkEwsZQliLHNJ9WUWwies1AE3bxBybdeZFUriJpI9Gx0 --0-2042206549-1174696863=:79222 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *innocent grin* Why did you think I was rolling my eyes? I figured you knew that and were hassling me. Cel Helyanwe Tarion Anarore wrote: Haha, no, I knew you didn't mean that *no one* died until the last day. No one dying until the last day would just be...well, unbelievable really. After all, it's freezing, there's a limited amount of food, grief...the whole nine yards, as they say. --------------------------------- The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. --0-2042206549-1174696863=:79222 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *innocent grin* Why did you think I was rolling my eyes?  I figured you knew that and were hassling me.

Cel Helyanwe

Tarion Anarore wrote:
Haha, no, I knew you didn't mean that *no one* died until the last day. No one dying until the last day would just be...well, unbelievable really. After all, it's freezing, there's a limited amount of food, grief...the whole nine yards, as they say.

The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. --0-2042206549-1174696863=:79222-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 786 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20908 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 01:05:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 01:05:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.241) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 01:05:32 -0000 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d26so1469110and for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:05:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=utdrCsxqeAc2e/JnCG/n3DZj/kPwF+Xk4M66+uLR8JDE2FjPTzR5dQiwCrbzeBpw6NaO1ueI1oUN1HvXGUyRtSFDnKRNIy7yjwj2TBvotAjQrODfUC2GiFhE63Y0qJGZoNZxXzWuMI6dn1QPrzyqvpB6doDRxZYGZuU9H41XgWM= Received: by 10.100.144.11 with SMTP id r11mr3112159and.1174698329864; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.123.14 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:05:29 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_184676_13698278.1174698329795" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Tuxedo Elf" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219404730; y=Rmk-cQjgTvzrD72kHXbKRWsrgb1MWn3s3afMsu96g9nMbnSI_HEwIQ X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf ------=_Part_184676_13698278.1174698329795-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 787 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73244 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 01:24:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 01:24:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 01:24:42 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.c5e.10e1f2e0 (41811) for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:24:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:24:06 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174699446" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=OO29YasP6GCHbAqWhwfo0d6_W_h72HauJkSUiohEa-qSt9plT7HR X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174699446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/23/2007 8:05:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, tuxedo.elf@gmail.com writes: I personally think that starvation can't kill an Elf... Tolkien was reasonably specific about what could and couldn't kill them. That makes more sese too in my opinion... I can't really see Morgoth worrying that much if Maedhros lived or died. I am sympathetic to Tuxedo elf's points here. I think Tolkien was specific about what killed elves and starvation was never mentioned. Violent death and "fading" seemed to be pretty much it. He did also mention drowning--as in the case of Amroth. I also believed that Elenwe slipped under a chunk of ice and couldn't be found and drowned. (Something I was always warned about as a kid--ice skating in a rural/small town environment. Never heard of it happening to anyone, but my mother and grandmother carried on like it was an everyday experience!) I always thought that Elured and Elurin were probably killed by wild beasts rather than starved--but I'm always easily swayed by a good plot with its own internal logic. (My impulse on most of these questions is "try it and see if it works.") In the case of Morgoth worrying about whether Maedhros lived or died at that point: I suspect (no proof in canon!) that Morgoth actually planned on Maedhros being found, but being unreachable and, therefore, having the agony further prolonged for all involved. But Fingon's intervention, intercession with Manwe, and Manwe's unexpected (to me at least) positive response undid that little plan. I would be sympathetic with fanfic writers playing around with the details of that whole sequence of events, but am not inclined to think that Morgoth had to literally lower or raise bags of groceries to Maedhros to keep him alive. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174699446 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/23/2007 8:05:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, tuxedo.elf@gmail.com w= rites:
I personally think that starvati= on can't kill an Elf... Tolkien was reasonably specific about what could= and couldn't kill them. That makes more sese too in my opinion... I can= 't really see Morgoth worrying that much if Maedhros lived or died.
=
I am sympathetic to Tuxedo = elf's points here. I think Tolkien was specific about what killed elves an= d starvation was never mentioned. Violent death and "fading" seemed to be = pretty much it. He did also mention drowning--as in the case of Amroth. I = also believed that Elenwe slipped under a chunk of ice and couldn't be fou= nd and drowned. (Something I was always warned about as a kid--ice skating= in a rural/small town environment. Never heard of it happening to an= yone, but my mother and grandmother carried on like it was an everyday exp= erience!) I always thought that Elured and Elurin were probably killed by = wild beasts rather than starved--but I'm always easily swayed by a good pl= ot with its own internal logic. (My impulse on most of these questions is = "try it and see if it works.")
 
In the case of = Morgoth worrying about whether Maedhros lived or died at that point: I sus= pect (no proof in canon!) that Morgoth actually planned on Maedhros being = found, but being unreachable and, therefore, having the agony further prol= onged for all involved. But Fingon's intervention, intercession with Manwe= , and Manwe's unexpected (to me at least) positive response undid that lit= tle plan. I would be sympathetic with fanfic writers playing around wi= th the details of that whole sequence of events, but am not inclined to th= ink that Morgoth had to literally lower or raise bags of groceries to=  Maedhros to keep him alive.



AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what= 's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174699446-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 788 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58670 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 01:34:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 01:34:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.35) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 01:34:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 5799 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2007 01:33:52 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: i78UhBcVM1mNFaI_B3ZbeO6QYvlQGNf9ctH.DXZ6kvyEZ1SVz7Lyrl2b4EMjHmernQc.4WXfDqjnTz5F0T.aPZB2bgRJTPKXJrZ60SJoxIhykEMjPueDgkmHQAoEFYPxLH.a6YK2siQung-- Received: from [206.251.9.39] by web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:33:52 GMT Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:33:52 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-968425269-1174700032=:4107" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <865961.4107.qm@web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Common fan fiction injuries for discussion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=umIFrGgdcWk_7o652SapEylWY8jqK1ktUYdTvV9afvowR1pi2dgu --0-968425269-1174700032=:4107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was thinking primarily First Age and some pre-downfall Second Age. But even during the Third/Fourth Age... Sure, you couldn't come Middle Earth, but suppose some elf from Aman went to the Helcaraxe from that end for some reason? Perhaps Finrod and/or Galadriel, going to show their children the place where so many elves had died? Cel Helyanwe rhapsody_the_bard wrote: That could work weren't it for the breaking of Beleriand and such at the end of the First Age. Any connection to the Helcaraxe got lost from that side.. Then there was the downfall of Numenor of which Valinor is removed from the Circle of the world.. A lot gets drowned so the question would be: how much is left of the Helcaraxe and how to get there with Valinor gone at one side, Beleriand at the other... Rhapsody --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-968425269-1174700032=:4107 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was thinking primarily First Age and some pre-downfall Second Age.  But even during the Third/Fourth Age...  Sure, you couldn't come Middle Earth, but suppose some elf from Aman went to the Helcaraxe from that end for some reason?  Perhaps Finrod and/or Galadriel, going to show their children the place where so many elves had died?

Cel Helyanwe

rhapsody_the_bard wrote:
That could work weren't it for the breaking of Beleriand and such at
the end of the First Age. Any connection to the Helcaraxe got lost
from that side.. Then there was the downfall of Numenor of which
Valinor is removed from the Circle of the world.. A lot gets drowned
so the question would be: how much is left of the Helcaraxe and how to
get there with Valinor gone at one side, Beleriand at the other...

Rhapsody


New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-968425269-1174700032=:4107-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 789 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77491 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 01:36:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 01:36:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.225.92) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 01:36:09 -0000 Received: from amailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.225.101]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070324013213b1200samefe>; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:32:13 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter01.comcast.net; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:32:12 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:32:12 +0000 Message-Id: <032420070132.9262.46047F9C000628620000242E22120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=TmWPwBQVHBURUJXTUStbgnfkvfHPVZZH-LOVUsrFdS60uHR8GIhY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Rhapsody wrote: > Yay! The thing is, we can discuss endlessly about semantics of words. > Over haste does not tell me, oh let's wait for a while and see if we > leave the next month. Shall we add this one to the, by now, long list > of questions to ask of the professor if we could? I see them march in > a day, you give them a month (I think Turko is rubbing off on me in > that respect wanting things now!) *gives Rhapsody an Elf cookie* Yes, I would certainly ask for a good timeline with birth years for all the Finwions, et cetera. Or ... maybe not! I have loved the spirited debates of the past few days, and taking some of the mystery away would take away a good amount of my fun with this book, I'll admit. (As I was telling Ellie, who first opened the can of worms, this is the most posts this group has had in any single month since its inception!) So thanks to all for the thought-provoking conversation! And now I see that I have a dozen more posts to read ... yikes! ;) Best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 790 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98133 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 01:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 01:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc16.comcast.net) (206.18.177.56) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 01:59:16 -0000 Received: from amailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.225.101]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070324013927b1600djg1pe>; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:39:27 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter01.comcast.net; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:39:26 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:39:26 +0000 Message-Id: <032420070139.25037.4604814E0003A208000061CD22120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=3dUTjqF0J2r8juWc-gfDNtr7hlTAibvQAw_wQudRmrlcWVxVIych X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Rhapsody wrote: > LOL true! It just seems extra weight to drag along with you under very > harsh conditions. Honestly, the detail about Finrod dragging along treasure across the Ice has always been one of those details that never felt quite right to me, that honestly made me wonder if this was a place where JRRT hadn't completely put two and two together and, if he'd thought about it more, might have done something differently. I just have this vision of poor Elenwe falling through the ice and Finrod chuggin' along, dragging his bag of gold ... I also like your rationalization, Tarion. That's an interesting solution to the conundrum, imo! :) *proffers Elf cookies to Tarion and Oshun* Best wishes to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 791 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18137 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 03:18:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 03:18:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.181) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 03:18:08 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so507323pyb for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:16:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:in-reply-to:thread-index:x-mimeole; b=BpBZw9Aqcto7lf9BqbJ2N99anloMEhFVuxWbTjDZMXYA3LhoyMP6uKHErEjf9Bb6ZRJDZa4lSybwmArn6VM8qTVGA/KQGyA4fqkXhqPfTmZjNIFRqhE3CUeIa5qOxA4ynByahtAcEN+2lG7/7dh7SuaC+gT3EsBaOezSgAV05+c= Received: by 10.35.99.17 with SMTP id b17mr7094045pym.1174706218584; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from THORONGIL ( [75.43.182.60]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id f55sm10079359pyh.2007.03.23.20.16.53; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:16:57 -0700 (PDT) To: Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 23:16:11 -0400 Message-ID: <00b001c76dc2$ca09a060$4001a8c0@THORONGIL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acdts2aGJ3U4b6VgRuu12z5IoJG7OQABa7Fg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Marta" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=FwP0D-UCij7xwTr1dXJIUeVyqQ7RYfnxZGYhKjxXYzMIFRQPY3en2w X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva > I personally think that starvation can't kill an Elf... [much snipped] Hey guys, These are all interesting points to me, and I see what you're saying about Tolkien specifying how Elves died. But if Elves aren't susceptible to hunger, then why did they have lembas? It seems to me that if the elves needed a special food, that suggests that hunger could be a real problem for them. Personally, I think Morgoth might have fed Maedhros because he seems the sort who could be very "into" causing pain. If Maedhros dies he gets sent right back to the Halls of Mandos and is eventually reborn. He escapes that way, and Morgoth knows it. But if Morgoth can keep him alive then he holds on to his captive, and Maedhros remains in "limbo" as long as he wants - and so Morgoth can torment him indefinitely. So I think Morgoth would feed him, but just enough to keep him alive. IIRC Elves can die from injury. Might starvation be viewed in the same way? It's sort of like the body injuring itself. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 792 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92656 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 04:18:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 04:18:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web58302.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.155) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 04:18:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 19272 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2007 04:18:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: NON0g6YVM1m6z9R5QRJuNxKipF53wkxSTRW3fojSArGKgTxrJqibAGdIxqXJtLbNedQ6LXlmwe7T6AfOTq9dRjU4kMp7QToxLdzP2Q7jGB7acVwMLrn7FMkIUkcl0JAezuPn8EG7hiLLaRs- Received: from [71.235.106.34] by web58302.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:18:23 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:18:23 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00b001c76dc2$ca09a060$4001a8c0@THORONGIL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1611410833-1174709903=:18526" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <179089.18526.qm@web58302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Niki S." Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=SuA9A4fa7pYNhy6pX8f2RtXgp3blkyX9_nVxBhGcnJ-8ihF0HQ X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes --0-1611410833-1174709903=:18526 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >But if Elves aren't susceptible to hunger, then why did they have lembas? It >seems to me that if the elves needed a special food, that suggests that hunger >could be a real problem for them. I suppose the lembas and other foods might have served some sort of "spiritual" or ritual purpose, like to honor Yavanna or something, if the Elves didn't need food for staying alive... I personally have a hard time buying that the Elves could survive without food forever myself, though--even if I try to set aside my preference for the idea that they are biologically pretty much just pointy-eared super humans. If only because it's just not interesting to me--unless the truth is that their skin can photosynthesize starlight instead. ;) And I actually vaguely recall a part in one of the Turin story versions about Beleg being in a sort of weak and "haggard" state after being caught by the outlaws Turin was hanging around with and not fed anything or given water to drink, and needing to heal (though he healed quickly) after the ordeal--can't find it in the Silmarillion itself, though, so it might be somewhere in HoME (which I admittedly don't treat as canon, but I guess it's worth a mention). But one could attribute his weakness at the time to the fact that he was "mistreated" (according to the Silmarillion)--and mistreated could mean beaten as well as it could mean starved and taunted. And one could also interpret it to mean that Elves need food for strength and energy, but not necessarily to stay alive. -Pulsarkat Marta wrote: > I personally think that starvation can't kill an Elf... [much snipped] Hey guys, These are all interesting points to me, and I see what you're saying about Tolkien specifying how Elves died. But if Elves aren't susceptible to hunger, then why did they have lembas? It seems to me that if the elves needed a special food, that suggests that hunger could be a real problem for them. Personally, I think Morgoth might have fed Maedhros because he seems the sort who could be very "into" causing pain. If Maedhros dies he gets sent right back to the Halls of Mandos and is eventually reborn. He escapes that way, and Morgoth knows it. But if Morgoth can keep him alive then he holds on to his captive, and Maedhros remains in "limbo" as long as he wants - and so Morgoth can torment him indefinitely. So I think Morgoth would feed him, but just enough to keep him alive. IIRC Elves can die from injury. Might starvation be viewed in the same way? It's sort of like the body injuring itself. Marta --------------------------------- The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. --0-1611410833-1174709903=:18526 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >But if Elves aren't susceptible to hunger, then why did they have lembas? It >seems to me that if the elves needed a special food, that suggests that hunger >could be a real problem for them.

I suppose the lembas and other foods might have served some sort of "spiritual" or ritual purpose, like to honor Yavanna or something, if the Elves didn't need food for staying alive...

I personally have a hard time buying that the Elves could survive without food forever myself, though--even if I try to set aside my preference for the idea that they are biologically pretty much just pointy-eared super humans. If only because it's just not interesting to me--unless the truth is that their skin can photosynthesize starlight instead. ;)

And I actually vaguely recall a part in one of the Turin story versions about Beleg being in a sort of weak and "haggard" state after being caught by the outlaws Turin was hanging around with and not fed anything or given water to drink, and needing to heal (though he healed quickly) after the ordeal--can't find it in the Silmarillion itself, though, so it might be somewhere in HoME (which I admittedly don't treat as canon, but I guess it's worth a mention). But one could attribute his weakness at the time to the fact that he was "mistreated" (according to the Silmarillion)--and mistreated could mean beaten as well as it could mean starved and taunted. And one could also interpret it to mean that Elves need food for strength and energy, but not necessarily to stay alive.

-Pulsarkat

Marta wrote:
> I personally think that starvation can't kill an Elf...

[much snipped]

Hey guys,

These are all interesting points to me, and I see what you're saying about
Tolkien specifying how Elves died. But if Elves aren't susceptible to
hunger, then why did they have lembas? It seems to me that if the elves
needed a special food, that suggests that hunger could be a real problem for
them.

Personally, I think Morgoth might have fed Maedhros because he seems the
sort who could be very "into" causing pain. If Maedhros dies he gets sent
right back to the Halls of Mandos and is eventually reborn. He escapes that
way, and Morgoth knows it. But if Morgoth can keep him alive then he holds
on to his captive, and Maedhros remains in "limbo" as long as he wants - and
so Morgoth can torment him indefinitely. So I think Morgoth would feed him,
but just enough to keep him alive.

IIRC Elves can die from injury. Might starvation be viewed in the same way?
It's sort of like the body injuring itself.

Marta


The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. --0-1611410833-1174709903=:18526-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 793 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51862 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 04:28:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 04:28:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web25014.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.171) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 04:28:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 53930 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2007 04:26:49 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: PeqGyfsVM1kYj7SKiNU.WAHrHRRoz2isOTX4Vb5PSs49dOQdMzcQy3G0V.gdJs6hpunQoob77uFYohxOkceZjEByNYy.cCWK02zKoLgalghiGDENtrc.40P4d4wC.NNrWQ2WgytgKcIccYCufJ8- Received: from [71.17.164.118] by web25014.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 04:26:49 GMT Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 04:26:49 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1174706290.1724.18142.m23@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <234913.52815.qm@web25014.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Claudielf Subject: Elvish money X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=qtXk8uDcIbYv5mnXPDL9C_sQrtfUxvPmefL16-e-T0zND6x4rA X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido > Posted by: "sirielle" > Money are human invention, IMHO no coins in Aman nor > Beleriand. A-ha, something I can contribute that doesn't require too much thought or typing... Elves did indeed have money. A gold coin was a kulusta, and silver was a telpilin (would evolve to tyelpilin in later Quenya). No description or relative value is given, or even when these coins were used: just the names of the coins in the Qenya Lexicon. CGL http://elffetish.com/elffetish.html ___________________________________________________________ Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 794 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66609 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 04:32:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 04:32:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 04:32:30 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.bef.110138e3 (41811) for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:32:16 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174710736" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elvish money X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=f1wftjmSsckw4DzqfXYbC6MJRbWCtQ1sVMSXhpf6Alg99hWV-mkD X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174710736 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/23/2007 11:28:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk writes: Elves did indeed have money. A gold coin was a kulusta, and silver was a telpilin (would evolve to tyelpilin in later Quenya). No description or relative value is given, or even when these coins were used: just the names of the coins in the Qenya Lexicon. No shit! Wow! Thank you.Fascinating. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174710736 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/23/2007 11:28:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, il_perfido@yahoo.co.u= k writes:
Elves did indeed have money. = A gold coin was a
kulusta, and silver was a telpilin (would evolve to=
tyelpilin in later Quenya). No description or
relative value is g= iven, or even when these coins were
used: just the names of the coins= in the Qenya
Lexicon.

No shit! Wow! Thank you.Fascinating.


AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about = what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174710736-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 795 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64317 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 05:41:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 05:41:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.125) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 05:41:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 63476 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2007 05:40:52 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: FPchUfEVM1m7.YJ9BwoUxyMfY0lndqhuh_UpqHiNNRRYjUv4ZiC03GhI52bvan.t_sPttGZtFTkYcCY8aK6ERckQSINnu.yPOuHcZk5eTGbuFx9YvSHLn0PjVeaaj60mTba_ovJY6UcwUqIZnUmRPRAh8g-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:40:52 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:40:52 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00b001c76dc2$ca09a060$4001a8c0@THORONGIL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2047959872-1174714852=:61096" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <370494.61096.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=Ay0I7yrf1D2Y8EFJQ2LC1kHBAueDGOVdBYufT0XkAh007zvBu3CcZGw X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-2047959872-1174714852=:61096 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Might starvation be viewed in the same way? It's sort of like the body injuring itself. Well put. This is what happens during starvation. 1st, the body uses up its glucose stores (which doesn't take long) 2nd, it begins to break down fat 3rd, it breaks down protein (muscles, screws up enzymes, all that). This happens after approximately 3-4 days of fasting, iirc. (How long it would be in an Elf - if you believe Elves to be susceptible to starvation - is anyone's guess). 4th, it goes *back* to breaking down fat, since it doesn't want to break down proteins of the heart, brain, etc. Once there's no more fat and the body has to break down these proteins, *makes slitting throat motion* you're screwed. Sorry - I'm in a nutrition class. We talk about starved states a lot - awfully distracting really. ;-) Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. --0-2047959872-1174714852=:61096 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Might starvation be viewed in the same way? It's sort of like the body injuring itself.

Well put. This is what happens during starvation.

1st, the body uses up its glucose stores (which doesn't take long)
2nd, it begins to break down fat
3rd, it breaks down protein (muscles, screws up enzymes, all that). This happens after approximately 3-4 days of fasting, iirc. (How long it would be in an Elf - if you believe Elves to be susceptible to starvation - is anyone's guess).
4th, it goes *back* to breaking down fat, since it doesn't want to break down proteins of the heart, brain, etc. Once there's no more fat and the body has to break down these proteins, *makes slitting throat motion* you're screwed.

Sorry - I'm in a nutrition class. We talk about starved states a lot - awfully distracting really. ;-)

Tarion


~T�rion

Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. --0-2047959872-1174714852=:61096-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 796 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53925 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 05:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 05:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.127) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 05:42:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 83994 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2007 05:42:11 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _C0.55gVM1lhPzVrf4qOdoVCdiD5IZklvErh5fbVFf0pvIZq7hy.MCfK8cERyv0oR4QQjdpdgCs8i8jnrrtDkNE51OaVPgxCR_OF9VbW6odd0gpfFhFn7kBFco2zJO0cyo0bN8RLPXEu_8_fHng9gX7b Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:42:11 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:42:11 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <995507.79222.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1469050495-1174714931=:81951" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <881386.81951.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=Ey8QmX6bR_k0BzjveByBWvmxHSQk2J-V4_v095U5NbRqnBCZj-mt9Ew X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1469050495-1174714931=:81951 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, sometimes things just go *whoosh!* over my head. ;-) Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: *innocent grin* Why did you think I was rolling my eyes? I figured you knew that and were hassling me. Cel Helyanwe ~T�rion --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. --0-1469050495-1174714931=:81951 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, sometimes things just go *whoosh!* over my head. ;-)

Celebrian Helyanwe wrote:
*innocent grin* Why did you think I was rolling my eyes?  I figured you knew that and were hassling me.

Cel Helyanwe



~T�rion

Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. --0-1469050495-1174714931=:81951-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 797 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44916 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 14:11:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 14:11:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 14:11:57 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 808E974807C for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:11:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:11:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:11:25 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1086308008.20070324151125@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <032420070132.9262.46047F9C000628620000242E22120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <032420070132.9262.46047F9C000628620000242E22120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=oikx5cLCBCeDf5ep9Y145DADVdjx0iUVnz3_Pyb66UG8wuZHbSc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, > Yes, I would certainly ask for a good timeline with birth years > for all the Finwions, et cetera. I think Fanged Geranium has got such in LJ list with every elf's date of birth. I've got it in memories, let me see... Some dates are here: http://fanged-geranium.livejournal.com/18539.html Can't find the other entry now, but there were dates of Fingon's and Maedhros birth etc. Ask Lois about it :) Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 798 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91155 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 15:25:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 15:25:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 15:25:32 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D568D58016 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:25:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:25:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:25:10 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1796333474.20070324162510@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <032420070139.25037.4604814E0003A208000061CD22120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <032420070139.25037.4604814E0003A208000061CD22120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=4gG4W1uf4Ja-PxtXRgg6WT620CialQq5YoTGvDtoynG7aIeUZ6o X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle

> that honestly made me wonder if this was a place where

> JRRT hadn't completely put two and two together and, if he'd thought

> about it more, might have done something differently.


He would, if he ever finished. It would also looked different if he was editor of the Silmarillion, not Christopher. There is a lot of contradictions and silly ideas which Tolkien didn't finish/delete/etc. Though I miss some of the fairy elements, such as Tevildo the Prince of Cats. Even if the kitty was evil ;)




What worries me a bit is that you all more or less try to explain events on Arda as it was our Earth and elve's behavior as they were humans, but it's still Arda and Eldar, not us. They think, feel and behave differently and live in a different sense of time; also the events we all try to explain are extraordinary - darkening of Valinor. I'm trying to find rational explanation, too, and judge all from human point of view, a human can't avoid it, but let's remember it's still fantasy.

Of course, you can write a fic where there is no fantasy elements (expect the fact that elves inhabit your fictional world), but the canonical world is fantasy; not high fantasy, especially late ideas, but still not realistic historical fiction.


But let's try to imagine and judge it again. Skip it if you're already bored.


I don't know how to describe it to let you imagine the best what I see. Maybe closing oneself in a dark room after watching a thriller about serial murder would be a good thing, with Diamnda Gallas from "Plague Mass" on a soundtrack ;) I know you all know the text well, of course. But you seem to judge it from your safe place in front of your computer screen and most of you are coming from really safe parts of our world. I'm sure people who just survived a war, a natural disaster or any other catastrophe can imagine it much better. (No, I haven't, if anyone wondered, but I know how different is every day life's reality in East and West of Europe alone - for example - in peaceful times.)


You are an elf, a Noldo. You live a safe life in a place where there is no death, sickness (illness? never know which is which) ageing, serious worries and problems. No harsh responsibilities, either; Valar provide goods and take care of you, nature breeds for you (nothing comes without work but the work is not that harsh as in mortal realms). Everyone live in peace, sharing their goods (till the moment when one certain elf refuses to share his trinkets). In other words - you live in a _total_blessed_utopia. A comparison with theoretical communism was a very good one (though I don't know the theory well and don't remember the awful socrealistic practice well, too - I'm from Poland). No money, but exchange of goods and sharing with others - no matter there are Quenya words on that or not (on this subject later, OK?). 


And suddenly the Sun is dying, disappearing. The world you knew just _died_.


You are in panic, terrified, there is no safety anymore and you are surrounded by lies and the only cure seems to have this haughty elf, the new leader. You will believe him and follow, not wasting time to pack everything, not thinking clearly (you're in shock - death is real! Valar are liars!). 

[They left soon after the speech as I remember, not days or weeks later; Feanor hurried all before elves will cool down and think of what they are doing.] 

Before you can calm down Manwe will speak to talk you to stay. More lies to keep you in a cage, you're not listening. Next - again before you calm down - you see Noldor and Teleri fighting/dying/dead in Alqualonde. Unbelievable, impossible, it's not real. It simply can't happen. If you are not scared enough you still follow him. 

Haven't drown on a ship, yet? So you are listening to the words of the prophecy. Now what ever you do, you are lost, but still you can go back and pay for your revolt. 

If you still believe that Valar lie, you go further. In the fancy dress you had on that day and a few layers of clothes over it "on default"; in good travel clothes if you're from Formenos - but you will not experience the ice then, don't worry. More or less good travel clothes in case of better prepared elves, but still I don't believe they were prepared for the arctic reality they will face.


Only House of Feanor was really prepared to leave, in their best judgement of what a war is and Beleriand looks like - the promised land of the ancestors as we may put. The cool, safe realm Valar stole from Eldar and prepared for teh Aftercomrs. But as I said before - they knew only tales of old, colored probably and they were acting in affect, left Formenos in terror, shock, sadness and pain. Don't expect good choices from anyone in such state of mind.



Well, that was rationalization from my human POV. As I said in the beginning elves can react differently, no one of us has got the best recipe for that.




Finrod was among elves who were the slowest in decision and wanted to stay the most - not he himself, but he wasn't leaving on his own, alone but in his group. So they took what they could reach out for - jewelry, nice clothes, artworks of other kind possible to carry away. And I believe as someone else said a mere trinket from Valinor was more valuable for dwarves and elves of Beleriand than any treasures created there, so Finrod was able to pay the dwarves well. They had mithril, elves had Valinorean jewels. 

There should be more about Finrod's treasures in description of teh ring he gave Beren - in Silm or LotR.



OK, I said too much when I wanted to say little, just about Finrod ;)



Sirielle

From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 799 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48207 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 15:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 15:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.244) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 15:31:56 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n27.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 15:31:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 15:31:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 15:31:50 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:31:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Speaking of bad boys, a SSP ;) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=9b4k4B2gyYMeGz7Rqj_HP_yPHOLTR3EjKbu8LeFUm6jdj0Muzat31hKI X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses Thank you for the links. I'll try to have a look during the weekend. = > I gave the archive links earlier on, but the story is completely up at: = > > Requiem is up at: > > Quills & Ink: http://www.quillsandink.com/ficti= on/viewstory.php? sid=3D1568 > > Open Scrolls Archive: > http://www.scribe= oz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D2646 > > And my writing LJ: > http://rhapsody= thebard.livejournal.com/14888.html > > :c) I hope you like it. > > Rhapso= dy > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 800 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5577 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 15:38:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 15:38:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 15:38:26 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C94D65803F for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:36:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:36:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:36:21 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <994986648.20070324163621@tlen.pl> To: sirielle In-Reply-To: <1796333474.20070324162510@tlen.pl> References: <032420070139.25037.4604814E0003A208000061CD22120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> <1796333474.20070324162510@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=cK_4W0Iy_m_61Yxdj6oSyjs36Cx4tGq8yJPQeZHGWPrMpoPCdZs X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle > And suddenly the Sun is dying, disappearing.=A0The world you knew just _d= ied_. Erm, the Trees are dying, but that means the same for a Valinorean = Noldo ;) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 801 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56209 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 15:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 15:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 15:42:33 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.bf1.109485bb (30740) for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 11:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 11:41:57 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174750917" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=LhyekwzJZDnU-SPDUJr4WzZegDzojjmCNFqm9nWqf_aD5BAqlF9K X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174750917 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What worries me a bit is that you all more or less try to explain events on Arda as it was our Earth and elve's behavior as they were humans, but it's still Arda and Eldar, not us. They think, feel and behave differently and live in a different sense of time; also the events we all try to explain are extraordinary - darkening of Valinor. I'm trying to find rational explanation, too, and judge all from human point of view, a human can't avoid it, but let's remember it's still fantasy. I appreciate these comments very much. I have an outgoing discussion in another writers forum over realism vs. fantasy when it comes to a Third Age novel I am writing. I would probably feel even more strongly if I were pushed to be more realistic in my First Age writing or before. Although I think there is room for quite a range of ideas. (My tired old joke with my Third-Age buddies is when they gave me too hard of a time and claim that something is anarchronistic to them, I just tell them that if they read the Silmarillion they would discover Feanor had invented whatever it is they are anxious about.) No, I haven't, if anyone wondered, but I know how different is every day life's reality in East and West of Europe alone - for example - in peaceful times. Having lived in the so-called Third-World. I have some idea of what it is like to live in a less perfect reality. It is different, but life goes on... I am more interested in the character development side than the strictly accurate canon side, although Tolkien fanfiction which is written without attention to canon detail is deadly dull. You are in panic, terrified, there is no safety anymore and you are surrounded by lies and the only cure seems to have this haughty elf, the new leader. You will believe him and follow, not wasting time to pack everything, not thinking clearly (you're in shock - death is real! Valar are liars!). [They left soon after the speech as I remember, not days or weeks later; Feanor hurried all before elves will cool down and think of what they are doing.] Tolkien's point was that Feanor wanted to leave as soon as possible while his words still had the maximum effect. Before you can calm down Manwe will speak to talk you to stay. More lies to keep you in a cage, you're not listening. Next - again before you calm down - you see Noldor and Teleri fighting/dying/Before you can calm Unbelievable, impossible, it's not real. It simply can't happen. If you are not scared enough you still follow him. Haven't drown on a ship, yet? So you are listening to the words of the prophecy. Now what ever you do, you are lost, but still you can go back and pay for your revolt. If you still believe that Valar lie, you go further. In the fancy dress you had on that day and a few layers of clothes over it "on default"; in good travel clothes if you're from Formenos - but you will not experience the ice then, don't worry. More or less good travel clothes in case of better prepared elves, but still I don't believe they were prepared for the arctic reality they will face. Only House of Feanor was really prepared to leave, in their best judgement of what a war is and Beleriand looks like - the promised land of the ancestors as we may put. The cool, safe realm Valar stole from Eldar and prepared for teh Aftercomrs. But as I said before - they knew only tales of old, colored probably and they were acting in affect, left Formenos in terror, shock, sadness and pain. Don't expect good choices from anyone in such state of mind. Finrod was among elves who were the slowest in decision and wanted to stay the most - not he himself, but he wasn't leaving on his own, alone but in his group. So they took what they could reach out for - jewelry, nice clothes, artworks of other kind possible to carry away. And I believe as someone else said a mere trinket from Valinor was more valuable for dwarves and elves of Beleriand than any treasures created there, so Finrod was able to pay the dwarves well. They had mithril, elves had Valinorean jewels. I greatly appreciate all of the above points, Sirielle. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174750917 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =

What worr= ies me a bit is that you all more or less try to explain events on Arda as= it was our Earth and elve's behavior as they were humans, but it's still = Arda and Eldar, not us. They think, feel and behave differently and live i= n a different sense of time; also the events we all try to explain are ext= raordinary - darkening of Valinor. I'm trying to find rational explanation,= too, and judge all from human point of view, a human can't avoid it, but = let's remember it's still fantasy.

I appreciate these = comments very much. I have an outgoing discussion in another writers forum= over realism vs. fantasy when it comes to a Third Age novel I am writing.= I would probably feel even more strongly if I were pushed to be more real= istic in my First Age writing or before. Although I think there is room fo= r quite a range of ideas. (My tired old joke with my Third-Age buddies is = when they gave me too hard of a time and claim that something is anarchroni= stic to them, I just tell them that if they read the Silmarillion they wou= ld discover Feanor had invented whatever it is they are anxious about.)

No, I haven't, if anyone wondered, but I know how differe= nt is every day life's reality in East and West of Europe alone - for exam= ple - in peaceful times.

Having lived in the so-called= Third-World. I have some idea of what it is like to live in a less perfec= t reality. It is different, but life goes on... I am more interested in th= e character development side than the strictly accurate canon side, althou= gh Tolkien fanfiction which is written without attention to cano= n detail is deadly dull.

You are in panic, terrified, t= here is no safety anymore and you are surrounded = by lies and the only cure seems to have this haughty elf, the = new leader. You will believe him and follow, not wasting time to pack ever= ything, not thinking clearly (you're in shock - = death is real! Valar are liars!). 

[They left = soon after the speech as I remember, not days or weeks later; Feanor hurri= ed all before elves will cool down and think of what they are doing.] = ;

Tolkien's point was that Feanor wanted to leave as soon as po= ssible while his words still had the maximum effect.

Before you= can calm down Manwe will speak to talk you to stay. More lies to keep you= in a cage, you're not listening. Next - again before you calm down - you = see Noldor and Teleri fighting/dying/dead in Alqualonde. Unbelievable, impossible, it's not real. It simply can't happen. If you are not scared = enough you still follow him. 

Haven't drown on a ship, yet? So you are listening to the words of= the prophecy. Now what ever you do, you are lost, but still you can go ba= ck and pay for your revolt. 

If you still believe tha= t Valar lie, you go further. In the fancy dress you had on that day and a = few layers of clothes over it "on default"; in good travel clothes if you'= re from Formenos - but you will not experience the ice then, don't worry. = More or less good travel clothes in case of better prepared elves, but sti= ll I don't believe they were prepared for the arctic reality they will fac= e.

Only House of Feanor was really prep= ared to leave, in their best judgement of what a war is and Beleria= nd looks like - the promised land of= the ancestors as we may put. The cool, safe realm Valar stole from Eldar = and prepared for teh Aftercomrs. But as I said before - they knew only tal= es of old, colored probably and they were acting in affect, left Formenos = in terror, shock, sadness and pain. Don't expect good choices from anyone = in such state of mind.

Finrod was among elves who were the = slowest in decision and wanted to stay the most - not he himself, but he w= asn't leaving on his own, alone but in his group. So they took what they c= ould reach out for - jewelry, nice clothes, artworks of other kind possibl= e to carry away. And I believe as someone else said a mere trinket from Va= linor was more valuable for dwarves and elves of Beleriand than any treasu= res created there, so Finrod was able to pay the dwarves well. They had mi= thril, elves had Valinorean jewels. 

I greatly= appreciate all of the above points, Sirielle.

 =

 




AOL now offers free email to ev= eryone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174750917-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 802 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73364 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 16:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 16:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 16:29:16 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34BAF58055 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:28:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:28:39 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:28:40 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1335761414.20070324172840@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=pRd9b-S3-erog0i1FItLe1e878cCDFiLcYWKrtm45pB-mXhkSRA X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, > I appreciate these comments very much. I have an outgoing > d= iscussion in another writers forum over realism vs. fantasy when > it come= s to a Third Age novel I am writing. I would probably feel > even more str= ongly if I were pushed to be more realistic in my > First Age writing or b= efore. Although I think there is room for > quite a range of ideas. There= is a lot of room while writing a story, all depends how stick to canon one= wants to be. And sticking to canon is quite possible regarding III Age, bu= t not that easy in the I Age as there are at least two main canon definitio= n and every one of us sees different things as canon. > (My tired old jok= e with my Third-Age buddies > is when they gave me too hard of a time and = claim that something is > anarchronistic to them, I just tell them that if= they read the > Silmarillion they would discover Feanor had invented what= ever it is > they are anxious about.) Good idea! ;D > Having lived in the= so-called Third-World. I have some idea of > what it is like to live in a= less perfect reality. It is different, > but life goes on... It goes on = and one judges differently what is hard and easy, cheap and expensive, dang= erous and safe, healthy and unhealthy etc. Third World must show more diffe= rence in that case. > I am more interested in the character development s= ide than the strictly accurate canon side, > although=A0Tolkien fanfiction= which is written without attention to=A0canon detail is deadly dull. I p= refer better character development and twisted canon, than perfect canon an= d paper personalities. I'm interested the most in personalities and possibi= lities, a story retelling things without any personal or emotional input wi= ll never satisfy me, no matter canon or not. I like both well mirrored cano= n and well thought AU, created with canon knowledge. > Tolkien's point wa= s that Feanor wanted to leave as soon as > possible while his words still = had the maximum effect. That's what I mean, you put it much better in word= s :) > I greatly appreciate all of the above points, Sirielle. I'm gla= d it was useful. I was worried that might be boring to discuss/retell again= , but decided to post it anyway if anyone could had a use of it :) Siriell= e From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 803 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56068 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 17:56:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 17:56:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 17:56:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 17:56:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 17:56:13 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:56:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1086308008.20070324151125@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=gFHOomqkYsaiqEp3wGidzn0vXsvp6ku4UrsuaEvqNhPm4lj92QQIhO0 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle w= rote: > > Ai Dawn, > > > Yes, I would certainly ask for a good timeline w= ith birth years > > for all the Finwions, et cetera. > > I think Fanged Ge= ranium has got such in LJ list with every elf's > date of birth. I've got i= t in memories, let me see... Some dates > are here: > > http://fanged-ger= anium.livejournal.com/18539.html > > Can't find the other entry now, but t= here were dates of Fingon's and > Maedhros birth etc. Ask Lois about it :) = Whereever you look in the Silm, HOME or the Letters of Tolkien, the profe= ssor never gave dates for this. Any calculation is simply fanon, but I thi= nk that was adressed when she made the profiles. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 804 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18143 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 18:16:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 18:16:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.251) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 18:16:46 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n29.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 18:13:46 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 18:13:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 18:13:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:13:45 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1796333474.20070324162510@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=8L1CHBqYd2RCmmVqy6jjJ0GtQAM0akpFWtRL5VKHCvjdJxBoiHSqz8I X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard > But you seem to judge it from your safe place in front of your > comput= er screen and most of you are coming from really safe parts > of our world= . I'm sure people who just survived a war, a natural > disaster or any oth= er catastrophe can imagine it much better. (No, > I haven't, if anyone won= dered, but I know how different is every > day life's reality in East and = West of Europe alone - for example - > in peaceful times.) I think where = you life in the world, experiences and such will absolutely have impact in= how you interpretet things. I always have these interesting discussion to= show people on a political forum that you cannot compare living in Europe= with the States for example. That is why I rather not engage in discussio= ns that will always end up in semantics. Before you know you and your disc= ussion partner have dug yourself in, with your own background and debating= a word like haste, fair and what more. So many people, so many views. > = A comparison with theoretical communism was a very good one (though > I do= n't know the theory well and don't remember the awful > socrealistic pract= ice well, too - I'm from Poland). No money, but > exchange of goods and sh= aring with others - no matter there are > Quenya words on that or not (on = this subject later, OK?). Okay! I'd love to hear your thoughts about that= , I have some observations and ponderings too. >You are in panic, terrifi= ed, there is no safety anymore and you are > surrounded by lies and the onl= y cure seems to have this haughty > elf, the new leader. You will believe = him and follow, not wasting > time to pack everything, not thinking clearl= y (you're in shock - > death is real! Valar are liars!). Yes, the shock-= experience and what I know about going through this is that it will be a n= atural reaction, human, elf or animal alike, to turn to those who lead and= come across powerful. Someone in charge is the person to turn to and don'= t forget the lies that have been sown in their hearts for so long: all it = needed was it to be kindled. >Only House of Feanor was really prepared to = leave, in their best >judgement of what a war is and Beleriand looks like = - the promised >land of the ancestors as we may put. The cool, safe realm = Valar >stole from Eldar and prepared for teh Aftercomrs. But as I said >b= efore - they knew only tales of old, colored probably and they were >actin= g in affect, left Formenos in terror, shock, sadness and pain. >Don't expe= ct good choices from anyone in such state of mind. I agree. >OK, I said t= oo much when I wanted to say little, just about >Finrod ;) Knowing how mu= ch you like him :c) But I completely agree with your assessment. Rhapsody= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 805 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6132 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 18:26:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 18:26:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.244) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 18:26:58 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n27.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 18:26:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 18:26:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 18:26:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:26:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: birth dates (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=hJqZChQQhp1AGuDOVJlwA06rS4heGwVD7fP_ZPFf7qYNn-x325TByw X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser Of course information we don't have is fairly flexible! For choosing birt= h dates, I think all we have to do is make sure everyone is an adult by th= e Darkening of the Trees. (Well, except Idril or anyone of her generation= ). It is also possible to 'match up' the ages of the cousins that seemed = to be friends....so Aredhel and Celegorm/Caranthir/Curufin would be close = in age, and perhaps Fingon and Aegnor/Angrod. And it goes without saying = to mention that their parents had to be adults when they were born! So, i= f you consider those stipulations, you can easily pick dates that will wo= rk. It would be nice to know, though ;) ~ MithLuin --- In Silmarillion= WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: = > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle > wrote: > > > > Ai Dawn, > > > > > Yes, I would certainly ask for a good= timeline with birth years > > > for all the Finwions, et cetera. > > > >= I think Fanged Geranium has got such in LJ list with every elf's > > date = of birth. I've got it in memories, let me see... Some dates > > are here: = > > > > http://fanged-geranium.livejournal.com/18539.html > > > > Can't f= ind the other entry now, but there were dates of Fingon's and > > Maedhros= birth etc. Ask Lois about it :) > > Whereever you look in the Silm, HOME = or the Letters of Tolkien, the > professor never gave dates for this. Any= calculation is simply fanon, > but I think that was adressed when she ma= de the profiles. > > Rhapsody > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 806 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90647 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 18:30:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 18:30:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 18:30:55 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 18:22:03 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 18:22:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 18:22:02 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:22:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1335761414.20070324172840@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=2tPXStuVTE4ZYCnabIrG_V7PPa1nRavrRjqAonmT-qrGGDjzhyd4pIA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle w= rote: > > I appreciate these comments very much. I have an outgoing > > di= scussion in another writers forum over realism vs. fantasy when > > it com= es to a Third Age novel I am writing. I would probably feel > > even more = strongly if I were pushed to be more realistic in my > > First Age writing= or before. Although I think there is room for > > quite a range of ideas.= > > There is a lot of room while writing a story, all depends how stick >= to canon one wants to be. And sticking to canon is quite possible > regard= ing III Age, but not that easy in the I Age as there are at > least two mai= n canon definition and every one of us sees different > things as canon. T= hat is sometimes when I keep on saying and keep on climbing upon a soapbox= about. Of course even for the 1st age glaring errors can be made, but wit= h the Silm, UT, HOME, The Letters of Tolkien and later on the Children of = Hurin... good lord, just when you think you got a good picture of somethin= g, the professor comes up with another observation and I bet it wasn't har= d for Christopher to execute his father's legacy. It would be the same tha= t something might happen to me and my husband will finish my novel. We're = so different and I can imagine he would make his choices differently, leav= e things out where I would rather have them in. I think in this all, I alw= ays love reading the notes, compare manuscripts and oh the Letters, the l= etters of the professor are such gems to read. I love the process of thoug= ht behind something. >> (My tired old joke with my Third-Age buddies >> is= when they gave me too hard of a time and claim that something is >> anarch= ronistic to them, I just tell them that if they read the >> Silmarillion th= ey would discover Feanor had invented whatever it >> is they are anxious = about.) > > Good idea! ;D LOL! Those crafty Feanorians :) >> I am more = interested in the character development side than the >> strictly accurat= e canon side, although=A0Tolkien fanfiction which >> is written without a= ttention to=A0canon detail is deadly dull. > > I prefer better character d= evelopment and twisted canon, than > perfect canon and paper personalities= . I'm interested the most in > personalities and possibilities, a story ret= elling things without > any personal or emotional input will never satisfy= me, no matter > canon or not. I like both well mirrored canon and well th= ought AU, > created with canon knowledge. Oh yeah, I read about everythin= g I can get my hands on. AU or not, canon, or people who take a bit of can= on and spin a story around that (which I just love to do). What I do take = issue with is with stories based on works of others where things are inven= ted for the purpose of a plot and it becomes fanon suddenly: like invented= brothers, uncles. It usually makes me go like: eh? > > Tolkien's point w= as that Feanor wanted to leave as soon as > > possible while his words sti= ll had the maximum effect. > > That's what I mean, you put it much better = in words :) Yeah. Me3. > > I greatly appreciate all of the above poin= ts, Sirielle. > > I'm glad it was useful. I was worried that might be bor= ing to > discuss/retell again, but decided to post it anyway if anyone cou= ld > had a use of it :) I always appreciate it :) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 807 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82642 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 18:40:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 18:40:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.127) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 18:40:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 48599 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2007 18:38:59 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: nFO4sfMVM1m1z1AalML7vFiteXaYZnaMsdyvLkWjoMnKg36hgvOOyxjoJxDPb.65DJ0MsIKoyrI5p_R36apqMjRMDXWfw4K65iR0rSga1v3avh0.o8MEyIUU4pZ5EwUO.lakrhX1rSkX_3_LMFuArCd8Yg-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 11:38:59 PDT Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 11:38:59 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1796333474.20070324162510@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-358410303-1174761539=:48445" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <760886.48445.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=LRX1fTjqnfxJM440_xYZvZHQiA7-H77mVZdzUd4vKZdeVNqDPR0qzr0 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-358410303-1174761539=:48445 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>What worries me a bit is that you all more or less try to explain events on Arda as it was our Earth and elves' behavior as they were humans Well, wasn't Tolkien's Middle-Earth supposed to be "our" Earth, once upon a time? So it makes sense on some level to "explain" the events of the Silmarillion and LotR as though it were "our Earth" - because it is. As for Elven behavior, well, I think it's close to impossible to work backwards and say, "This is how Elves behaved compared to humans." We only know what we're given. The Silmarillion is a historical account basically written by Pengolodh, who was/is an Elf. So to me, it makes sense that the accounts we are given are in some way accurate depictions of Elven behavior. Certainly the accuracy and bias inherent in all historical accounts may be called into question, but I can't quite see Tolkien's Elves writing their entire history as a big lie. The other point on this is that stories we're given were told/translated or whatever by Aelfwine, so they already have been anthropomorphised in the telling. Thus, there's no way that, as we seek to understand the stories, Elves can be completely 100% "Elvish", if you will. This is where "working backwards" does not work - we're human, so until one of us meets up with Maglor or Celeborn, we'll never know what "Elven" behavior is. Which means we also can't say whether it is or is not similar to human behavior. (This could get especially interesting depending on if you believe that Elves and Humans are the same species or not.) All that to say that I think that explaining is, on some level, what we're meant to do with the Silmarillion. Kind of like teaching children history. We teach kids, "this is what we know, this is what we *interpret* as true..." Even our own history is riddled with some degree of bias and uncertainty concerning people's behaviours, motivations, emotions, etc. ;-) Just my two cents (and my stack of pennies is quickly diminishing...;-) ) Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --0-358410303-1174761539=:48445 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>What worries me a bit is that you all more or less try to explain events on Arda as it was our Earth and elves' behavior as they were humans

Well, wasn't Tolkien's Middle-Earth supposed to be "our" Earth, once upon a time? So it makes sense on some level to "explain" the events of the Silmarillion and LotR as though it were "our Earth" - because it is.

As for Elven behavior, well, I think it's close to impossible to work backwards and say, "This is how Elves behaved compared to humans." We only know what we're given. The Silmarillion is a historical account basically written by Pengolodh, who was/is an Elf. So to me, it makes sense that the accounts we are given are in some way accurate depictions of Elven behavior. Certainly the accuracy and bias inherent in all historical accounts may be called into question, but I can't quite see Tolkien's Elves writing their entire history as a big lie.

The other point on this is that stories we're given were told/translated or whatever by Aelfwine, so they already have been anthropomorphised in the telling. Thus, there's no way that, as we seek to understand the stories, Elves can be completely 100% "Elvish", if you will. This is where "working backwards" does not work - we're human, so until one of us meets up with Maglor or Celeborn, we'll never know what "Elven" behavior is. Which means we also can't say whether it is or is not similar to human behavior. (This could get especially interesting depending on if you believe that Elves and Humans are the same species or not.)

All that to say that I think that explaining is, on some level, what we're meant to do with the Silmarillion. Kind of like teaching children history. We teach kids, "this is what we know, this is what we *interpret* as true..." Even our own history is riddled with some degree of bias and uncertainty concerning people's behaviours, motivations, emotions, etc. ;-)

Just my two cents (and my stack of pennies is quickly diminishing...;-) )

Tarion


~T�rion

Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --0-358410303-1174761539=:48445-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 808 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82592 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 18:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 18:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.23) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 18:44:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 18:43:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 18:43:34 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:43:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <032420070132.9262.46047F9C000628620000242E22120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Freezing (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=IxzQm8W112ZmmjUMJher7FPEbKCm7r2RJrZUKEWQ5o3yVG_2SDM7Ki0 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: >= > Rhapsody wrote: > > Yay! The thing is, we can discuss endlessly about se= mantics of > > words. Over haste does not tell me, oh let's wait for a whi= le and > > see if we leave the next month. Shall we add this one to the, b= y > > now, long list of questions to ask of the professor if we could? > = > I see them march in a day, you give them a month (I think Turko > > is r= ubbing off on me in that respect wanting things now!) > > *gives Rhapsody = an Elf cookie* Does it have chocolate? Hmm :) > Yes, I would certainly as= k for a good timeline with birth years for > all the Finwions, et cetera. = Or ... maybe not! I have loved the > spirited debates of the past few days= , and taking some of the > mystery away would take away a good amount of m= y fun with this > book, I'll admit. Ah yeah, I was reading a blog entry = of Michael Martinez the other day where he says this: "Regrettably, for t= hose people who care about canon and authenticity, the ambiguous status of= authorial responsibility for The Silmarillion has caused many years of un= necessary debate and grief. We could reasonaly say, "Who could have forese= en the amount of discussion that would ensue in the first generation after= the death of Tolkien?" And the answer is that no one foresaw that much co= mmentary. But here we are today, trapped in a world of silly arguments abo= ut Balrogs and whether they should have run in the train of Glaurung or w= hether they should have been mentioned at all in the description of the Da= gor Bragollach. There are people who want to know if Gothmog in The Lord o= f the Rings is somehow connected to the First Age Gothmog. I don't expect = these questions to be answered definitively." Martinez always manages to h= elp me keeping my sanity. I think I referred to this article months back o= n my LJ, but I fully agree with this: The rewriting of the Tolkien canon:.= http://tolkien- studies.com/blog/index.php/michael/2007/01/02/the_rewriti= ng_of_the_tol kien_canon > (As I was telling Ellie, who first opened the c= an of worms, this is > the most posts this group has had in any single mon= th since its > inception!) So thanks to all for the thought-provoking conv= ersation! LOL, yes a couple of days back when I checked in and saw 75 mess= ages posted.. that surely made me curious! But I love hearing the thoughts= of others because with discussions like this you always learn something = new and get stuck with bunnies (for example Finrod taking his time going t= hrough his jewerly box (or even worse Amarie's) while his love taps her fe= et). Any takers? I have antsy plot bunnies enough by now! Rhapsody (who w= ill pre-order Children of H=FArin quickly) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 809 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54081 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 18:45:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 18:45:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 18:45:52 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.d2a.a463f83 (41811) for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 14:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 14:42:47 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174761767" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: birth dates (was: Common fan fiction injur... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=xjfrZv0ba9QkeYy5lcIXmUeUjpqJAE8RNwjgeM7cccepNU0Fv887 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174761767 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/24/2007 1:27:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, marielprosser@yahoo.com writes: (Well, except Idril or anyone of her generation). It is also possible to 'match up' the ages of the cousins that seemed to be friends....so Aredhel and Celegorm/Caranthir/and Celegorm/Caranthir/Curufin would be cl Fingon and Aegnor/Angrod. I so agree with your logic and examples. I also do like a very young--even baby--Celebrimbor (just personal taste there). ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174761767 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/24/2007 1:27:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, marielprosser@yahoo.co= m writes:
(Well, except
Idril or an= yone of her generation). It is also possible to 'match
up' the ages = of the cousins that seemed to be friends....so Aredhel
and Celegorm/= Caranthir/Curufin would be close in age, and perhaps
Fingon and= Aegnor/Angrod.
I so agree with = your logic and examples. I also do like a very young--even baby--Celebrimb= or (just personal taste there).



AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's = free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174761767-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 810 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67691 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 18:49:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 18:49:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 18:49:15 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.c37.e7df532 (41811) for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 14:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 14:47:34 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174762054" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=NvDFLB8ZmcxkQcQyvAsa8dZ_fh9xY6KR56d6QNYiHAmDht_5aKp- X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174762054 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/24/2007 1:31:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes: What I do take issue with is with stories based on works of others where things are invented for the purpose of a plot and it becomes fanon suddenly: like invented brothers, uncles. It usually makes me go like: eh? Oh, yes! Rhapsody! I am so in agreement with you there. Except somethings occur to a lot of people simultaneously that seem logical and are not really canon. For example: red-haired Nerdanel. I also like Dawn giving Maglor a musician as a wife. Makes so much sense to me... But I know what you are talking about--silly fanon that just gets endlessly and pointlessly perpetuated. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174762054 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/24/2007 1:31:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com w= rites:
What I do take issue with is wit= h stories
based on works of others where things are invented for the= purpose of
a plot and it becomes fanon suddenly: like invented brot= hers, uncles.
It usually makes me go like: eh?
=
Oh, yes! Rhapsody! I am so in agreement with you th= ere. Except somethings occur to a lot of people simultaneously that seem l= ogical and are not really canon. For example: red-haired Nerdanel. I also = like Dawn giving Maglor a musician as a wife. Makes so much sense to me...=
 
But I know what you are talking about--silly= fanon that just gets endlessly and pointlessly perpetuated.
<= BR>

AOL now offers free email to everyone= . Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174762054-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 811 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59822 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 18:52:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 18:52:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.125) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 18:52:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 24280 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2007 18:52:12 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: QhGjiqAVM1lxqdy3rCHED_DfhuICCR_vyAkkt37wFMmNcRYDe_OqWx_fhdzHhscqKw00yjc_wQR2ax5z0iu4bgkr8ZKHli.BiH5zdd0wz_teZV581H0mesTqYPFnxh8EFMTH0eFoRnqpXQ-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 11:52:12 PDT Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 11:52:12 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-436339807-1174762332=:23992" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <680605.23992.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Plot Bunnies (was: Freezing) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=k0GRTsooTDUc5iZjYzDXuQhvWCY31vU0SL7TQp5NBb6JOnzkB89N2z0 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-436339807-1174762332=:23992 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Any takers? I have antsy plot bunnies enough by now! Maybe after these discussion we need to have a sort of plot bunny garage sale! ;-) Tarion ~T�rion --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --0-436339807-1174762332=:23992 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Any takers? I have antsy plot bunnies enough by now!

Maybe after these discussion we need to have a sort of plot bunny garage sale! ;-)

Tarion


~T�rion

Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --0-436339807-1174762332=:23992-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 812 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84972 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 19:22:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 19:22:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 19:22:58 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 19:22:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 19:22:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 19:22:55 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:22:54 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=I_Hp7yA7MtGNK64FFzdbfoFR0uTVNfoPhOictojENFgN0sfwX2e5gA X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser Elves did need to eat - Tolkien specifically mentions that the Valar *didn= 't* need to when he explains the habit of feasting in Valinor. The Valar = only did that in their guise of 'dressing up' as the Children. So...elves= needed to eat to maintain their bodies. The lembas was designed to sust= ain them in dire straits, or at least, that is how it was used by the Nume= noreans. But the best passage I know to explain this is about Tuor (a man= , of course) and Voronw=EB, an elf of the Noldor. It's in Unfinished Tale= s: "Thereafter, the snow and ice relented not at all, and for five months= the Fell Winter, long remembered, held the North in bonds. Now Tuor and = Voronw=EB were tormented by the cold, and feared to be revealed by the sno= w to hunting enemies, or to fall into hidden dangers treacherously cloaked= . Nine days they held on, ever slower and more painfully, and Voronw=EB t= urned somewhat north... Then Tuor said to Voronw=EB: 'Fell is this = frost, and death draws near to me, if not to you.' For they were now in e= vil case: it was long since they had found any food in the wild, and the w= aybread was dwindling, and they were cold and weary. 'Ill is it to be tra= pped between the Doom of the Valar and the Malice of the Enemy,' said Vor= onw=EB. 'Have I escaped the mouths of the sea but to lie under the snow?'= 'I counted myself the hardiest of Men,' said Tuor, 'and I have= endured many winters' woe in the mountains; but I had a cave at my back = and fire then, and I doubt now my strength to go much further thus hungry = through the fell weather. But let us go on as far as we may before hope f= ails.' 'No other choice have we,' said Voronw=EB, 'unless it be to lay us = down here and seek the snow-sleep.' Therefore all through that bitter day= they toiled on. ... " The fact that Voronw=EB has a word for freezing to= death suggests to me that it can happen to elves. But the fact that Tuor= says that death is near to him, if *not* to Voronw=EB suggests that the e= lves' endurance is such that short rations does not finish them off nearly= as quickly. They both suffer from the cold, but Tuor more obviously suf= fers from the hunger. No living being with a body can survive without fo= od. You can either eat it, absorb it, or make your own, but you do need i= t! I did not mean to suggest that I thought elves could go about their l= ives unconcerned about food. I meant...that perhaps as their bodies shut = down from starvation, they did not die, but went into some sort of hiberna= tion/stasis state. And, yes, eventually death, but not nearly as quickly = as a human would starve. I don't think this is what happened to Maedhros,= but I just meant that something like this could be used to explain what h= appened to him. Tolkien lists what can slay an elf (wounds and grief), b= ut the only things he specifically says they were not suceptible to were = sickness and old age. So, I imagine that hunger and cold and drowning wou= ld affect them just as we would think. I imagine poison could kill them, = for instance, even though that is not specifically a wound. (Oh right...i= t *did* kill Aredhel, silly me.) I know I am "soft" and come from an envi= ronment where I have never had to worry about safety or survival or war. = Lucky me. I would not have made it across the Helcarax=EB, either ;). Bu= t what I do know of refugee camps and such is that many people do survive,= despite the awful conditions. The death toll is more than sobering, but= it is usually not...total. Even something awful like the Trail of Tears = had survivors. Even Nazi concentration camps... As for Elured and Elurin= , you are right, their fates are unknown. But they are presumed to have s= tarved in the forest. If so...it was thought they could starve, anyway! = But they are half-elven. Their father Dior was very young (by elven stand= ards) when they were born, suggesting that he came to manhood at the age o= f Men, not Elves. (Same with Earendil and Elwing, btw). So, they definat= ely matured as mortals. Based on Manw=EB's statement of the choice of the= Peredhel, it seems that mortal is the "default" setting, and immortality= was only a special case offered to Earendil and Elwing (and any descenden= ts who might choose to forego mortality). The descendants of the lords of= Dol Amroth were certainly mortal, despite having an elven ancestrix, for = example. Since Dior and his sons died prior to that pronouncement, they c= an all be assumed to be mortal (though Dior's marriage to Nimloth suggests= that, given a choice, he would have chosen to be counted with the Eldar).= But again, this is open to interpretation. ~ MithLuin --- In Sil= marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Tuxedo Elf" wrote= : > > I personally think that starvation can't kill an Elf... Tolkien was >= reasonably specific about what could and couldn't kill them. That makes m= ore > sese too in my opinion... I can't really see Morgoth worrying that m= uch if > Maedhros lived or died. > > Erm, actually we don't know if Elured= and Elurin starved or not after they > were abandoned, or if they were mo= rtal, for that matter. > > On 22/03/07, marielprosser = wrote: > > > > > > I think that the sparsity of the text lends itself to cr= eating > > explanations, not to being fanciful. There is nothing to say tha= t > > the Noldor of Tirion were unable to harpoon walruses, eat the flesh,= > > and turn the pelts into warm clothing/blankets/sleeping rolls. Of > > = course, there is nothing to suggest that they *did* or even that > > there = are walruses in ME ;). If the Israelites can wander for 40 > > years in the= desert, Fingolfin's host can wander for 40 years on the > > Helcaraxe. No= t happily, perhaps, and not without loss - but we have > > to assume that = they were resourceful, able to take care of > > themselves, and decently we= ll equipped for traveling and settling in > > foreign lands. > > > > They = left in haste, yes, but not instantly. They didn't forget to > > pack! F=EB= anor left behind much of his work, I'm sure, thinking he > > could always m= ake new treasures in the new land. But he thought to > > bring horses, and= he thought they'd need boats to carry all their > > stuff.....I mean, they= were companies with provisions, not just a > > bunch of people out for a s= troll. And it wasn't just the > > youngsters, because only 1/10 stayed behi= nd (originally). Those who > > did stay stayed out of love for their homes= and the Valar, not out > > of fear of the elements! > > > > Anyone who ha= s read "To Build A Fire" knows what happens if you get > > wet in the bitt= er cold and cannot warm up. But that man's problem > > was that he was alon= e...Turgon would be travelling with people who > > could bundle him up and= keep him warm - at the very least with their > > own body heat! I know th= e lack of trees is a difficulty, but I > > imagine they brought at least so= me wood from Araman and had some > > fires sometimes. Also, you can burn dr= ied dung. Even if their > > animals died, there is always their own wastes.= Without fire, I > > think they all would have died eventually. So, I presu= me they were > > somewhat resourceful enough to build fires. Maybe not eve= ry day, > > but as often as needed. > > > > I can think of several simple e= xplanations for Maedhros' survival. > > > > -Some orc had "feed the captiv= e" duty and was lowered over the cliff > > on a rope each week to give him= some water and food. When Maedhros > > was still strong enough, he would = try to take the food and kill the > > orc, so this duty was not really rel= ished ;) > > > > -Morgoth used magic to suspend him in some sort of stasis = where he > > would not need food. He was just really hungry when he got ba= ck to > > Mithrim! > > > > -The iron band on his wrist acted as a magical = IV, dripping > > necessary nutrients into him as needed. It was, after all,= hell- > > wrought iron ;) This could be part of the torture, knowing that = he > > relied on Morgoth for life. > > > > -The eagles of Manw=EB sustaine= d his life by bringing him food. It > > doesn't say they did, but they cert= ainly lived in that area of the > > world and *could* have. > > > > -"Star= ving to death" is not one of the things that can kill elves. > > They just= get weaker and weaker and weaker.... Unpleasant to > > contemplate, but th= e only canon characters who starve are Morwen and > > Elur=E9d/Elurin, nei= ther of whom were elves from Aman (a mortal and > > half-elven mortals, res= pectively). > > > > I actually think it would be more difficult to explain = H=FArin's > > survival in Angband, since he is a mortal man. But there, I j= ust > > assume he's being fed or that Morgoth's magic is taking care of th= at > > for him. > > > > ~ MithLuin > > > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild= @yahoogroups.com, > > heartofo= shun@ > > wrote: > > However, I still find a lot of the detail hard to > > = > difficult--the most most recent discussion I had in the concrete > > end= ed up with me being > > > unable to accept the canon fact that Maedhros cou= ld have possibly > > survived > > > hanging from the cliffs of Thangorodri= m by one hand for years. > > While other > > > have pursued complicated exp= lanations for how this might be > > possible, I decided, > > > for the sake= of my current story line, that I would consider this > > fact pure > > > = literary hyperbole or poetic exaggeration and dramatically > > collapsed th= e > > > entire timeframe for the series of events around his capture and >= > rescue. > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 813 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4577 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 20:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 20:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 20:38:00 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 20:37:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 20:37:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 20:37:59 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:37:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=AjIGSlJrW5A6_XaGVXmtlK8HXbYsqjmZc2rMKUWJHsv5v84DymbjT20 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >= > > In a message dated 3/24/2007 1:31:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, > r= hapsody74@... writes: > > What I do take issue with is with stories > ba= sed on works of others where things are invented for the purpose > of a p= lot and it becomes fanon suddenly: like invented brothers, > uncles. It u= sually makes me go like: eh? > > Oh, yes! Rhapsody! I am so in agreement = with you there. Except > somethings occur to a lot of people simultaneousl= y that seem > logical and are not really canon. For example: red-haired Ne= rdanel. That's in canon... I read it in POME I think when I was researchi= ng Mathan for someone else. Might be for Sirielle. > I also like Dawn giv= ing Maglor a musician as a wife. Makes so much > sense to me... That's = in canon too. What isn't canon is to have someone saying to me: oh but To= lkien said Maglor's wife is named Vingarie because Dawn wrote it. You and = I know who Vingarie is and how they fell in luv in AMC, but an outsider wh= o read the books and perhaps HOME would go like: w00t? This is an example= btw, what I did encounter was the fanon turned into canon was a big famil= y of Thranduil, it really made me go like... eh? I immediately reached for= the Hobbit to see if I missed something. I so love original characters in= stories, so I am not against that a writer createsa whole family for a ch= aracter, but I do know at that moment that it are characters of the author= and not of Tolkien. Or when I create a complete backstory for Erestor in = the Inner light, given that there isn't so much about the elf in canon, I = do know that *I* am making it up. > But I know what you are talking about= --silly fanon that just gets > endlessly and pointlessly perpetuated. Whe= n history becomes legend and legend becomes myth... ;) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 814 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96101 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2007 21:25:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2007 21:25:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.205) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2007 21:25:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 21:25:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2007 21:25:15 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 21:25:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00b001c76dc2$ca09a060$4001a8c0@THORONGIL> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=heFu4rMaCH3ABLNRTS22hKQx1TeHwKBlQlxnhCYvCa_Th9qlcbsPZjk X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Marta" wro= te: Hey Marta! > These are all interesting points to me, and I see what y= ou're saying > about Tolkien specifying how Elves died. But if Elves aren't= > susceptible to hunger, then why did they have lembas? It seems to me > = that if the elves needed a special food, that suggests that hunger > could= be a real problem for them. I went to Tinni's site for this, she has a gr= eat site named Canon? No its Fanon (http://tinni.s43.eatj.com/index.jsp) = "Lembas form part of Elvish daily meals " 'I thought it was only a kind of= cram, such as the Dale-men make for journeys in the wild,' said the Dwarf.= 'So it is,' they answered. 'But we call it lembas or waybread, and it is m= ore strengthening than any food made by Men, and it is more pleasant than c= ram, by all accounts.' " Farewell to Lorien, Lord of the Rings: The Fellows= hip of the Ring "Pippin afterwards recalled little of either food or drink= , for his mind was filled with the light upon the elf-faces, and the sound = of voices so various and so beautiful that he felt in a waking dream. But h= e remembered that there was bread, surpassing the savour of a fair while lo= af to one who is starving;" Three is company, Lord of the Rings: The Fellow= ship of the Ring As it can be seen, for everyday consumption the elves had= 'ordinary' bread and Lembas was really for long journeys and such. If the = above does not convince you than the following passage from History of Midd= le-earth should settle this one once and for all. "This food the Eldar alo= ne knew how to make. It was made for the comfort of those who had need to g= o upon a long journey in the wild, or of the hurt whose life was in peril. = Only these were permitted to use it. The Eldar did not give it to Men, save= only to a few whom they loved, if they were in great need." Of Lembas, His= tory of Middle-earth: People of Middle-earth" I believe there is also a Le= mbas essay out there. > Personally, I think Morgoth might have fed Maedhr= os because he seems > the sort who could be very "into" causing pain. If Ma= edhros dies he > gets sent right back to the Halls of Mandos and is eventu= ally > reborn. He escapes that way, and Morgoth knows it. But if Morgoth = > can keep him alive then he holds on to his captive, and Maedhros > remai= ns in "limbo" as long as he wants - and so Morgoth can torment > him indef= initely. So I think Morgoth would feed him, but just enough > to keep him a= live. I'd be careful with words like Limbo, imho, Mandos isn't exactly he= ll. Basically all creatures on Arda, Children of Eru, have a F=EBar and a H= rondo. The Fea was the spirit, Hrondo the body. From Morgoth's Ring: "If t= hen the hrondo [> hroa] be destroyed, or so hurt that it ceases to have hea= lth, sooner or later it 'dies'. That is: it becomes painful for the fea to = dwell in it, being neither a help to life and will nor a delight to use, so= that the fea departs from it, and its function being at an end its coheren= ce is unloosed, and it returns again to the general hron [> orma] of Arda. = Then the fea is, as it were, houseless, and it becomes invisible to bodily = eyes (though clearly perceptible by direct awareness to other fear). This d= estruction of the hrondo [> hroa], causing death or the unhousing of the fe= a, was soon experienced by the immortal Eldar, when they awoke in the marre= d and overshadowed realm of Arda. Indeed in their earlier days death came m= ore readily; for their bodies were then less different from the bodies of M= en, and the command of their spirits over their bodies less complete." > = IIRC Elves can die from injury. Might starvation be viewed in the > same w= ay? It's sort of like the body injuring itself. If it becomes very painful= for the fea, it would. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 815 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97430 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 02:42:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 02:42:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.72) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 02:42:15 -0000 Received: from ibm68aec.bellsouth.net ([68.209.19.62]) by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070325024144.KBHE806.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm68aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 22:41:44 -0400 Received: from jerryhycpkuq27 ([68.209.19.62]) by ibm68aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20070325024144.VDVG17298.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@jerryhycpkuq27> for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 22:41:44 -0400 To: Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 02:16:23 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c76ddb$f5eec5c0$d5a4fea9@jerryhycpkuq27> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C76DBA.6EDD25C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Jerry and Ellen Finegan" Subject: Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=dOVxrCC_BLRvBrHTzT2TUkRNwcls_7qeyU8xPubL4BpVyG5DklM X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C76DBA.6EDD25C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On the elf starvation point, it says in one of the HoME books, in a chapter on Tuor and his coming to Gondolin that Voronwe had some lembas bread in his belt when he washed up on shore in Vinyamar and that lembas was that which all mariners kept until the last and they only used it in great need. Then he and Tuor eventually discuss how they will have to carefully hunt for food. So I take this as elves could indeed starve to death, but they were hardier and it took longer, but it could happen or mariners wouldn't need lembas. In fact, no elf would need lembas ever if they couldn't starve to death. Ellie Outside a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read. ~Groucho Marx ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C76DBA.6EDD25C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =

On the elf starvation = point, it says in one of the HoME books, in a c= hapter on Tuor and his coming to Gondolin that Voronwe= had some lembas bread in his belt when = he washed up on shore in Vinyamar and that lembas was that which all mariners kept until the l= ast and they only used it in great need. Then he and Tuor eventually discus= s how they will have to carefully hunt for food. So I take this as elves co= uld indeed starve to death, but they were hardier and it took longer, but i= t could happen or mariners wouldn’t need lembas<= /span>. In fact, no elf would need lembas ever = if they couldn’t starve to death.

 

Ellie

 

Outside a dog, a bo= ok is a man's best friend.
Inside a dog, it's too dark to read.
~Groucho Marx=

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C76DBA.6EDD25C0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 816 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65872 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 11:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 11:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.217) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 11:49:22 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 11:46:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 11:46:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 11:46:05 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 11:46:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c76ddb$f5eec5c0$d5a4fea9@jerryhycpkuq27> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=k4BBgBGX7bCRH2szFAkBBcgxP7ZpXx3sPDwn79G2Abj1-WYT-KAXSWY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry and Ellen Finegan" = wrote: > > On the elf starvation point, it says in one of th= e HoME books, in a > chapter on Tuor and his coming to Gondolin that Voronw= e had some >lembas bread in his belt when he washed up on shore in Vinyama= r and >that lembas was that which all mariners kept until the last and the= y >only used it in great need. Then he and Tuor eventually discuss how >t= hey will have to carefully hunt for food. So I take this as elves >could i= ndeed starve to death, but they were hardier and it took >longer, but it c= ould happen or mariners wouldn't need lembas. In >fact, no elf would need = lembas ever if they couldn't starve to death. True. I think it all comes d= own to will power and the mastery of the body before a person would give in= . In Maedhros case I can imagine for example that his anger towards Morgo= th would triumph over any feeling of hunger to sustain him. I am not sure h= ow long he was forced to hang there (The Silm gives no date), but even on r= ock life can exist (plants, insects ect ect), so I am not sure if Maedhros = was starving. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 817 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24933 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 13:49:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 13:49:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 13:49:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 13:49:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 13:49:06 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:48:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=zAarT8xgHsBaUeYnStOWujZ5rX_43CvhYb8SPAhuGX_E3-Bhc1dd X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund > > Except > > somethings occur to a lot of people simultaneously that see= m > > logical and are not really canon. For example: red-haired Nerdanel. = > That's in canon... I read it in POME I think when I was researching > = Mathan for someone else. I'm interested where you found this quote because= I've looked and never been able to find anything in the HoMe that states t= hat Nerdanel had red* hair. (*And when I say red, I include all the variat= ions: copper, reddish, red-brown, auburn ... I've been told off enough time= s for using "red hair" for these colors, but it's simply easier to type! :)= A while back, on another Tolkien discussion group, someone asked for info= rmation about Nerdanel, and I (and several others) provided her with a summ= ary, including the fact that Nerdanel had red hair. Another member wrote ba= ck to ask for quotes supporting this since she had compiled a database of e= ye and hair colors of the characters and had never been able to find canon = support for the idea that Nerdanel had red hair. I was certain that I had r= ead it, but when I checked "The Shibboleth of Feanor" and "The Problem of r= os" (both in HoMe XII: The Peoples of Middle-earth) where red hair is expre= ssly mentioned, I could find nothing saying that Nerdanel had red hair. Sev= eral others who'd sworn--as I did--that Nerdanel had red hair joined the se= arch and came up similarly empty-handed. There were lots of attributions f= or Mahtan, Maedhros, Amrod, and Amras but none for Nerdanel specifically. T= his lead me to the conclusion that Nerdanel's red hair began as the logical= result of the fact that her father and three of her children had red hair;= it is likely that she did as well. And like so many things in fanon that a= ppear to have canon support, it perpetuated itself over the years until eve= ryone believed that it was canon. But if there is support for the fact that= it's canon, then I'd love to hear it! :) As it is, I am sorely tempted to= write a story with a dark-haired Nerdanel and watch the fur fly. *evil gri= n* > > I also like Dawn giving Maglor a musician as a wife. Makes so much= > > sense to me... > That's in canon too. That Maglor's wife was a mus= ician? I know that the footnote in "Of Dwarves and Men" says that Maglor (= and Caranthir and Curufin) had a wife, but I've never seen anything else th= at mentions her, much less her profession. I'd assumed that it was an origi= nal idea on my part (acknowledging that I am likely not the only author out= there with the same "original idea" about this ;). > Or when I create a c= omplete backstory for Erestor in the Inner light, > given that there isn't= so much about the elf in canon, I do know that > *I* am making it up. Ye= s, I did this too in "By the Light of Roses," so I feel your pain. :) And b= eing somewhat lazy when it comes to Erestor, I will admit that I stuck to m= any of the fanon ideas about him. I simply lacked the strength to get into = drawn-out debates with readers about a text with which I am not too familia= r. (BtLoR was written for a good friend; she requested Erestor, so I oblige= d. :) I love to discuss canon in groups like this, where we're all just bat= ting around ideas, interpretations, and our own collection of obscure quote= s and information. ;) But I will admit that it is terribly frustrating to h= ave spent years researching this book and its attendant works to have a rea= der fly off the handle because I don't adhere to fanon or necessarily agree= with and use his/her personal interpretation of what is said in the books.= But that is a rant/ramble for another time. :) Best regards, Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 818 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19387 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 17:11:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 17:11:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 17:11:43 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id AED055805F for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:11:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:11:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:11:39 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1356261996.20070325191139@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=nFk-sHTmhBGUCaEJWpb5BoaxAJaeaAiyVIBIPQsHk76JJVOrt00 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, > Another member wrote back to ask for quotes supporting this since she had > compiled a database of eye and hair colors of the characters and had > never been able to find canon support for the idea that Nerdanel had > red hair. That's great! I was going to do such "registry", too, but I've never completed it. Can you link us to that database or tell who is making it? > Several others who'd sworn--as I did--that Nerdanel had red hair joined the search > and came up similarly empty-handed. Add me to the group, it was so obvious that I would swear it's in books. I can't check any sources here, but I would look in the Shibboleth, too, as you already checked it there is nothing to add. I thought it was in her red haired son's names descriptions. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 819 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91188 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 17:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 17:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 17:35:00 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3461E58053 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:31:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:31:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:31:09 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1127965319.20070325193109@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <1796333474.20070324162510@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=27DwEb7iVT9VzidgvWRO7XvwRe5mmzxqH-tik2bO8rI2-PD8Dmc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle > Okay! I'd love to hear your thoughts about that, I have some > observations and ponderings too. And I would love to discuss and comment more, but I can't do it all now. Not when I'm scold for sitting too much in front of PC or at nights etc. I need to be home and alone again ;) And I have the 80 letters to read, still ;) All try to come back to the themes I can't discuss now. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 820 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69635 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 17:35:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 17:35:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 17:35:02 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0FE15804E for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:27:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:27:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:27:53 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1047567141.20070325192753@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <1335761414.20070324172840@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=tH3Kz2fzhVUzA644GvfnLSG4YxgKih7df4Q0dIRmwcCLAznNQNg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, > and I bet it wasn't hard for Christopher to execute his father's legacy. I guess you wanted to say "it wasn't easy"? He did it with someone else in so short period of time, that misinterpretations were inevitable, even if he discussed many times the legendary with his father. I relate to a discussion we had on it somewhere else and people agreed that if the editors allowed themselves to have more time, the final Silmarillion would be more coherent and whole. > I always love reading the notes, compare manuscripts and oh the Letters, the > letters of the professor are such gems to read. I love the process of > thought behind something. Having a possibility to compare all the possible materials is great, but not everyone of us can do it. So it's great to have discussions and others sharing their interpretations. Also I wonder how valid information from letters is - in the end they are not essays, but thoughts Tolkien had in a moment of writing to someone, it might be temporarily idea, rejected later or something he had in mind but never out in words again. > What I do take issue with is with stories > based on works of others where things are invented for the purpose of > a plot and it becomes fanon suddenly: like invented brothers, uncles. > It usually makes me go like: eh? And I borrowed something from someone once, too. It should become fanon ;) It doesn't worry me until people take it for canon. I'm rather irritated by Sindar being blond or silver and such ideas. I must say I teat elves not being able to starve to death as fanon, too. But that's another thread for it. > I always appreciate it :) Glad to hear it :) Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 821 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85235 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 18:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 18:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.209) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 18:05:13 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n31.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 18:05:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 18:05:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 18:05:10 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:05:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=y5Ks1Qi51T8XWTwMo9S4PRtbpmOt-I_YpgICOiUsFIhNS27PDZi70A X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser I am quite certain that, without outside aid, Maedhros was indeed starvin= g. Now, his spirit may have been too stubborn to give up, as you suggest,= and thus he inhabited a broken body long past other's endurance limits. = Quite possible. But there is no way he lived on bugs for years. True, th= e dates are not included in the Sil. But the Silm. dates correspond to th= e Tale of Years Tolkien was using (ie, Battle of Sudden Flame occuring 455= years after the rising of the sun), so we can use dates from that to figu= re out how long Maedhros was in bondage. And it was quite awhile.... For= example, in The Grey Annals in HoME XI: War of the Jewels, we find that i= n 1497 (Year of the Trees) Maidros [sic] was taken captive by Morgoth, and= , after his brothers refused to meet Morgoth's terms, in 1498: "Therefore= Morgoth took Maidros, and setting a band of hellwrought steel about his r= ight wrist, hung him thereby above a precipice upon the west-tower of Than= gorodrim, where none could reach him. But his brethren drew back and fort= ified a great camp in Hithlum." 1500 is the arrival of Fingolfin, when we = start counting in years of the Sun. It was in YS 5 that Fingon rescued Mai= dros. So, it would not be unreasonable to say that Maedhros was hanging = by his wrist for about 15+ years before the sun rose, and then another 5 = years after that. So, that's 20-25 years of the sun. Of course, if you c= ount Years of the Trees as "years" it's only 2 1/2 years. But either way,= it is *far* too long to survive without food, even if you are a hardy Fir= stborn newcome from Aman. ~ MithLuin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@= yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > True. I t= hink it all comes down to will power and the mastery of the > body before = a person would give in. > > In Maedhros case I can imagine for example th= at his anger towards > Morgoth would triumph over any feeling of hunger to = sustain him. I am > not sure how long he was forced to hang there (The Sil= m gives no > date), but even on rock life can exist (plants, insects ect ec= t), so I > am not sure if Maedhros was starving. > > Rhapsody > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 822 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98748 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 18:23:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 18:23:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.253) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 18:23:29 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 18:22:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 18:22:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 18:22:17 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:22:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1356261996.20070325191139@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=Bi_6XMfFIhpwooNgaHSJ1_7f0NNpuLmmdmNtksfAz45UAWdLdPG7wg X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser The genetics of elven hair color is so fun to play with :) As in humans, = dark hair is a dominant trait. So, *if* red hair in elves is similar to r= ed hair in humans, we should be able to work out the liklihood of Nerdanel= being a redhead. F=EBanor had dark hair, correct? But 3 of his 7= children have red hair, so clearly he was heterozygous - carrying the gen= e for red hair, but not expressing it himself. Mahtan, the father of Nerd= anel, had red hair. So, either she has red hair herself, or else she is c= arrying the gene for red hair, but expressing something different (ie, dar= k hair). IF Nerdanel and F=EBanor are both dark haired, but both carry t= he gene for red hair, then they have a 1/4 chance of each of their childre= n having red (or blond) hair. (The difference between red and blond is m= ore complicated, and I'm not getting into that here!) But in reality, only= 3 of their seven sons had dark hair - 3 of the others were red-haired, an= d one was blond (Celegorm the Fair). Amrod/Amras were likely identical tw= ins, so they could be counted as a single conception - but that is still h= alf and half. So, a dark-haired Nerdanel is certainly possible, but she = had more red-haired children than one would suspect from such a scenario. = With only 7 children, probability breaks down a bit, so that doesn't mea= n much ;). But then consider, what IF Nerdanel was red-haired, while F= =EBanor was dark-haired? We know he carries the gene for red hair, becaus= e his children have it. But we would expect the children to have a 50/50 = chance of red (or non-dark) hair in this scenario, and that is precisely = what we see; only three dark-haired children. If Mahtan's wife (who is nev= er named, I know) had red hair, then Nerdanel would have to have it, too. = As it is, she *could* have dark hair, but is more likely to have red hair= (based on what we know). So a red-haired Nerdanel may be fanon, but a= t least it is very reasonable fanon based on the details we know from cano= n. The only strike against this point is that if Maedhros is specifically= said to have gotten his red hair from his grandfather, then it is possib= le his mother didn't have it. Recessive traits *can* skip a generation. = ~ MithLuin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle <= sirielle@...> wrote: > > Ai Dawn, > > > Another member wrote back to ask= for quotes supporting this since she had > > compiled a database of eye = and hair colors of the characters and had > > never been able to find can= on support for the idea that Nerdanel had > > red hair. > > That's great= ! I was going to do such "registry", too, but I've never > completed it. C= an you link us to that database or tell who is making > it? > > > > Seve= ral others who'd sworn--as I did--that Nerdanel had red hair joined the se= arch > > and came up similarly empty-handed. > > Add me to the group, it = was so obvious that I would swear it's in > books. I can't check any source= s here, but I would look in the > Shibboleth, too, as you already checked i= t there is nothing to > add. I thought it was in her red haired son's names= descriptions. > > Sirielle > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 823 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96256 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 18:57:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 18:57:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.124) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 18:57:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 32285 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2007 18:56:39 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: BqSCPREVM1mdtm5BZTOVwTBwUxcwaJ2k.qqD5uV6mDO6PboeanrhrbJNPn1ownPKXg-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 11:56:39 PDT Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 11:56:39 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-421854171-1174848999=:31918" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <467861.31918.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Hair Color X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=jfy2KIA7LwS5Ii4Rva-xOdN-ChXK0F9dCdrlgu1PWlT_ZS0IvPU88F8 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-421854171-1174848999=:31918 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Uh oh, here we go! And I thought I was done with genetics...;-) Unfortunately for us, red-hair is *not* a simple autosomal recessive gene. Close, but not quite. There is evidence that red is hypostatic to brown/black (i.e. when brown/black is present, the red gene does not produce the usual effect). There is also evidence of incomplete dominance, producing colors like auburn (red-brown). I don't know what HoME says word-for-word regarding red hair colors, and it seems semantics could be a deciding factor. It also depends on whether you think Celegorm is blonde or dark-haired, as this another thing that is often debated. Of course, questions like this plagued me in genetics class. I am not kidding when I say that the thought, "so, if Fingolfin is dark haired, and Finarfin is blonde, then Finwe must be heterozygous..." ran through my mind! ;-) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. --0-421854171-1174848999=:31918 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Uh oh, here we go! And I thought I was done with genetics...;-)

Unfortunately for us, red-hair is *not* a simple autosomal recessive gene. Close, but not quite. There is evidence that red is hypostatic to brown/black (i.e. when brown/black is present, the red gene does not produce the usual effect). There is also evidence of incomplete dominance, producing colors like auburn (red-brown). I don't know what HoME says word-for-word regarding red hair colors, and it seems semantics could be a deciding factor. It also depends on whether you think Celegorm is blonde or dark-haired, as this another thing that is often debated.

Of course, questions like this plagued me in genetics class. I am not kidding when I say that the thought, "so, if Fingolfin is dark haired, and Finarfin is blonde, then Finwe must be heterozygous..." ran through my mind! ;-)


~T�rion

Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. --0-421854171-1174848999=:31918-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 824 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94282 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 19:19:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 19:19:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 19:19:32 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.be5.1359c45c (43930) for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 15:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 15:19:18 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174850358" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Wh_-vYmxdGhN5G7waho0KO4sL-qxSDu76xxJRpFyl93XnfUKOUBv X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174850358 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/25/2007 1:24:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, marielprosser@yahoo.com writes: So a red-haired Nerdanel may be fanon, but at least it is very reasonable fanon based on the details we know from canon. The only strike against this point is that if Maedhros is specifically said to have gotten his red hair from his grandfather, then it is possible his mother didn't have it. Recessive traits *can* skip a generation. All of this speculation is inrteresting and logical, but I have no idea if Tolkien knew anything whatsoever about genetics, recessive traits, red hair, etc. Also, I like the idea of Celegorm being blond. But the word "fair" as used by Tolkien, if you look it up in the OED, does not exclusively mean blond at all, but simply pleasant to look at. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174850358 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/25/2007 1:24:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, marielprosser@yahoo.co= m writes:
So a red-haired Nerdanel may = be fanon, but at least it is very
reasonable fanon based on the deta= ils we know from canon. The only
strike against this point is that i= f Maedhros is specifically said
to have gotten his red hair from his= grandfather, then it is
possible his mother didn't have it. Recessi= ve traits *can* skip a
generation.

<= DIV> -------------------------------1174929410-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 859 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88884 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 17:22:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 17:22:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 17:22:59 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81F1E58058 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:17:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:17:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:17:47 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1332340351.20070326191747@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=W-BJaj0h4RZlJaMKGZY2Xq5Bqjgv7ABTyJlwOKJS3P9SR_Orjpo X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, > I agree with this one. Since my elves have very human emotions, I > am always trying to find other ways to distinguish them from > people. Eyes are always first, but then pale skin might be another factor. And of course more reach hair than human kind can ever have. Plus height and "vitality". Pointy ears are a matter of test, but should never be the main difference; if they are the only difference then we're talking of a pointy eared people. > It noticed switching from LOTR to Silm fiction writing the > difference became harder--in LOTR fiction making an elf alien is > easier to do by contrast and remarks humans, for example, make. Especially if you write of elves alone, not elves vs humans etc. > In Silm fiction, of course, they are never weird to one another. But they are extremely beautiful sometimes and etc. One should never overdose the beauty factor ;) It would be interesting if for example Sindar were weird to Noldor and such differences, as Eol is weird to Sindar of Doriath. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 860 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93541 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 17:33:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 17:33:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc15.comcast.net) (206.18.177.55) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 17:33:34 -0000 Received: from amailcenter10.comcast.net ([204.127.225.110]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070326164433b1500b557ne>; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:44:33 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter10.comcast.net; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:44:33 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:44:33 +0000 Message-Id: <032620071644.307.4607F8710006C7FD0000013322165258560B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Searching the Yahoo Group X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=yq-tPMEim_JLE5qeUY0M5YJAcFywdqfIn83F_g8M5yJeDfg2Ru3B X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, Since the issue has arisen of "losing" old posts on the Yahoo group, I think that now is a good time to mention how easy it is to search the message archive in the SWG Yahoo group. If you visit the group's homepage on Yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/ there is a handy little menu on the lefthand side. One of the selections that you can choose is MESSAGES. Here is every message that has ever been posted to this group. (As group owner, I have the option of deleting messages, but I do not nor will I.) Of course, since there are currently more than 850 messages here, trying to find one specific message can seem difficult or impossible. However, Yahoo has a rather handy Advanced Search option to search the group's message archive. Right under the MESSAGES header is a basic search box. To the right of the search fields is a link marked "Advanced Search." Or, you can find it here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/msearch_adv This allows you to input whatever information that you remember about the post for which you are searching: words that appeared in the title, words that appeared in the message body, the message's author, and the date or approximate date when the message was posted. To give an example, I wished to find the post in the "Celegorm's Hair" thread where Rhapsody discusses the different meanings of the word "fair." I set the date within seven days, put "rhapsody" in the field for author name, and put "celegorm hair" in both the fields for message title and message body. I came up with one message that matches what I was looking for. In another group that I belong to where the archive contains over 68,000 messages, I once needed a very specific post that I'd made about Feanor and the Silmarils. I entered myself as the author ("dawn") and entered "feanor silmaril" into the field for the message body and came back with nine matches ... much easier to peruse than 68,000! :) So this is a handy tool, even if you're wondering if a topic has been addressed before. I just searched "celegorm hair" in the message body and found 18 matches; this would be a good place to start to see whether we've discussed Celegorm's hair before. (Which I think is an inevitable topic on any Silmarillion group! :) Of course, our messages (and hence, the message archive) are only available to members of the Yahoo group. I can open it to the public but chose not to. Because we are also a writer's group, then I feel that it's important that discussions of our stories or any fiction that we post here be limited only to group members rather than being open to public scrutiny. As for starting a forum/message board for SWG, this is something that I recently discussed with the other group mods. We decided that, at the moment, this is not a direction that we want to take. Firstly, my priorities for the website at the moment are the reference section and the archive; since both the Yahoo group and LJ community exist for discussions, spending time on creating a third discussion forum seemed impractical when these two features (that we do not already have) are not yet available. Secondly, I am not sure that this is a feature that most of our members would use. When I polled the group a while back about what features they most wanted to see on the site, support for a forum was comparatively low. This does not mean that we someday will not have a forum, but at the moment, I am focusing my efforts in other directions. Certainly, once the main site is completed (and I am *so* close! :) and the archive is ready, if I felt that people wanted to see a forum and would use it, then I would look into putting one on the site. So, certainly, if you think that you'd use a forum on the website (versus this group or the LJ community), then please let me know! I do take everyone's suggestions and feedback very seriously, so please do not hesitate to email me privately with suggestions or ideas. That said, I think I've learned more from you all in the past few weeks of discussion than I have in a long time! Thanks for the thought-provoking discourse. :) Best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 861 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50403 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 17:42:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 17:42:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 17:42:27 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B73D6280C8 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:37:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:37:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:36:30 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <692485282.20070326193630@tlen.pl> To: marielprosser In-Reply-To: References: <101489.64667.qm@web58313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=C4q7y590iZYFrktjQe4WTnFZAcKZiIBTdwLF0n5AUb5EM9VLd5Q X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai MithLuin, > Where did the "no mutation" idea come from? *confuzzled* I would > think the inability to adapt would eventually prove fatal.... As result of the elven vs human bodies difference.I know not every mutation is dangerous, some are needed, but I'm not sure if elves need them. > Catherine Karina Chmiel gives freckles to her Maedhros, sometimes, > and I think he looks quite believable with them. I know, she is the one on a freckles party in a discussion I said about before ;) I would link it, but that's ion Polish so it's a bit pointless. She said Caranthir might have the same type of beauty as A girl named Kate Freckles or such in "lost" I don't watch it, so can't compare. > But if ever anyone's skin is described as 'clear' I take it to mean > no blemishes - so no moles, no freckles, no scars, no pimples. > Arwen in FotR is described this way, I think. I would understand it the same way, though I like freckles itself. I just need one more difference, even if it make elves look more like porcelain dolls ;) > so that is certainly left to the freedom of the author/artist in most cases. Agree on that. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 862 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96992 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 17:42:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 17:42:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 17:42:36 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09DCB62805E for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:42:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:42:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:42:36 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1387326981.20070326194236@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <032620071644.307.4607F8710006C7FD0000013322165258560B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <032620071644.307.4607F8710006C7FD0000013322165258560B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Searching the Yahoo Group X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=nldooD9UNFsEJi5d6ciyL39OAgqsazM5pYJfrB5CB-NHnOPvCdc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai DawnFelagund, > "Advanced Search." I had no idea such search engine exists, then we need no board for all can be found in the group archive. I also agree to keep it closed to the group members. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 863 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17836 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 18:04:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 18:04:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 18:04:28 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7BD58011 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:54:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:54:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:54:06 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <13310152339.20070326195406@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=IsXQ96kczvD1-cBHvIYlryxVPxITwxdDasTyD2ky7BtQTmpsNgs X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle > Freckles--love Sirielle's=A0concept that they would disappear > almost i= nstantaneously. After a thought that's the most possible theory for me - t= emporary freckles, permanent pale skin. > I also had some moments of musin= g over the effects of > direct sunlight from overhead versus the sort of s= urrounding effect > of the Light of the Trees and what if any effect that = would have on > elven skin. That's interesting, difference in lights itse= lf and the way elves saw them, also their impact on skin. On the whole ca= non case - we can't agree all on one conception regarding elven look, behav= ior and personalities other way fan fiction will be dull. But it's nice to = discuss what is closes to Tolkien's word. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 864 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98358 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 17:46:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 17:46:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 17:46:23 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.d1c.76c8961 (48600) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:45:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:45:44 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174931144" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=B-EseFELSh6fcXGj9yhdPvcGojSFeTBBMiuqY0RGb1WPbxiYR1Gf X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174931144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/2007 12:33:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: But they are extremely beautiful sometimes and etc. One should never overdose the beauty factor ;) It would be interesting if for example Sindar were weird to Noldor and such differences, as Eol is weird to Sindar of Doriath. Sirielle Never overdose the beauty factor? You are making me laugh at myself, Sirielle! Should I take that personally? Have you been reading my stuff? I tend to get more than a little caught up in physical description. Actually I have just begun a First Age piece and having the experience of writing Noldor and Sindar observing one another. It is a lot of fun to imagine what they see as differences and I think that given the Noldor are fresh from Aman in my fic does effect the way they are perceived and perceive. Two of my favorite quotes deal with eyes--make me melt/shiver when I read them: First, Feanor (of course) "He was tall, and fair of face, and masterful, his eyes piercingly bright and his hair raven-dark" Secondly, what Morgoth's host saw when first confronted by the Feanorians in M-e: "The Noldor, outnumbered and taken at unawares, were yet swiftly victorious; for the light of Aman was not yet dimmed in their eyes, and they were strong and swift, and deadly in anger, and their swords were long and terrible" Definitely not humans that are being described here. Much too beautiful. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174931144 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/26/2007 12:33:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writ= es:
But they are extremely beautiful sometimes a= nd etc. One should never
overdose the beauty factor ;) It would be in= teresting if for example
Sindar were weird to Noldor and such differe= nces, as Eol is weird to
Sindar of Doriath.

Sirielle
Never overdose the beauty factor? You= are making me laugh at myself, Sirielle! Should I take that personal= ly? Have you been reading my stuff? I tend to get more than a little = caught up in physical description.
 
Actually I = have just begun a First Age piece and having the experience of writing Nol= dor and Sindar observing one another. It is a lot of fun to imagine what t= hey see as differences and I think that given the Noldor are fresh from Am= an in my fic does effect the way they are perceived and perceive. Two = of my favorite quotes deal with eyes--make me melt/shiver when I read them= : 
 
First, Feanor (of course) "He was tall, an= d fair of face, and masterful, his eyes piercingly bright and his hair rav= en-dark"
<= FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> 
Secondly, what = Morgoth's host saw when first confronted by the Feanorians in M-e: "The Noldor, = outnumbered and taken at unawares, were yet swiftly victorious; for the li= ght of Aman was not yet dimmed in their eyes, and they were strong and swi= ft, and deadly in anger, and their swords were long and terrible"
 
Definitely not humans that = are being described here. Much too beautiful.
 
= =  



AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what= 's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174931144-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 865 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35287 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 17:59:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 17:59:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 17:59:56 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.d41.552ab87 (48600) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:59:04 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174931944" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=5lHiAzDwxGIOyxd2NQgSvZCIHYGVF0wzOnk8JPzbNVPE68meuOqJ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174931944 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/2007 12:43:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: > Catherine Karina Chmiel gives freckles to her Maedhros, sometimes, > and I think he looks quite believable with them. I love her Maedhros, with and without freckles. I just wish she did more from the happier parts of his life. Love Maedhros in this one of hers, without freckles (although it is black and white). _http://tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/strony/Maitimo_Moryo_Findekano_Tyelko.htm_ (http://tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/strony/Maitimo_Moryo_Findekano_Tyelko.htm) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174931944 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/26/2007 12:43:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writ= es:
> Catherine Karina Chmiel gives = freckles to her Maedhros, sometimes,
> and I think he looks quite= believable with them.
I lov= e her Maedhros, with and without freckles. I just wish she did more from t= he happier parts of his life. Love Maedhros in this one of hers, without f= reckles (although it is black and white).
 



AOL now= offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL a= t AOL.com= .
-------------------------------1174931944-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 866 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71470 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 17:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 17:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 17:42:39 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790F46280D3 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:30:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:30:06 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:30:08 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1929830622.20070326193008@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=l_N0cmzQt3Kb2w0paFQ4md9wstJ1eQ2vgml9lfr63Q6iqVAJT3U X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, > However, if memory serves correctly, this idea was abandoned, and so > I would never make the claim that this is definitive proof that > Celegorm is blond. If you find a proof that it was rejected by John not Christopher I will note down "Celegorm is dark haired in canon" and have my own Cel as I had before ;) But I believe it wasn't John, so I still treat it as another possibility. I fully agree that his hair color should not dismiss any story about him just because of that. I hate blond Fingolfin but it didn't stop me enjoying a story where he was blond, though I would enjoy it more if his blond hair didn't eyeblind me ;) I can't promise I'll never mention that a certain character is different hair colored in canon, but if that was the only thing I had to say I wouldn't comment at all; and I usually comment when I like a story or an image, so it's not dangerous, really, minor fact I may never mention. Especially after I've seen all Jenny Dolfen went through with her canonically black haired Fingolfin I will not nitpick on that anyone but me. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 867 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27013 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 18:03:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 18:03:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 18:03:28 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 18:03:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 18:03:25 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 18:03:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=75G6rHpShaIwFqwgmxwuYuybtl9c4Dji0bJVLkuqhwecCfXFH8FYEac X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "marielprosser" wrote: > > Where did the "no mutation" idea come from? *confuzzle= d* I would > think the inability to adapt would eventually prove fatal...= . I really don't have a clue. I just keep on wondering... but what about O= rcs? Elves mutilated, crossbred and mutated.. I know that not only redhair= ed people can get freckles. I've met plenty of people who have them and hav= e blonde and brown hair.... Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 868 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45434 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 18:09:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 18:09:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 18:09:18 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ADF358013 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:04:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:04:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:03:50 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1106356146.20070326200350@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <484034330.20070326191127@tlen.pl> References: <1568742541.20070326151746@tlen.pl> <101489.64667.qm@web58313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <484034330.20070326191127@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------7A9513427E7CC7A" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Fwd: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=fk6lxnEv-oE3t8JP_hO4co6GLmMo0KvVreYvGBY1BGIRXzP_klg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle ------------7A9513427E7CC7A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wiadomo=9C=E6 przekazana Od: sirielle Do: "Niki S." Data: 26 marca 2007, 19:11:27 Temat:= [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome =3D=3D=3D8<=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DTre=9C=E6 oryginalnej wiadomo=9Cc= i=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Ai Niki, > Are freckles rea= lly any more of a mutation than red hair (or any > hair color) or ruddy com= plexions would be, though? Perhaps some of > the first Elves to awaken by L= ake Cu--Cuiven-- (argh, can't spell > today) Lake Whatchamacallit could hav= e been created with freckles... I remember it's a result of mutation in sk= in exposed to sun. > I kind of think it'd be cute if some Elves could have= freckles, > especially as young children. :) In my !verse in will make cu= te Edain children only. And when Mr Nelyafinwe will meet a red haired Elda = they will have this little difference visible in the first sight. Unless I'= ll change my mind ;) > Though I could well buy the idea that if Elves ha= d freckles, they'd be less common and/or less > noticeable than human freck= les. That is also nice idea - elven freckles would last just for an instan= t, a few minutes till their extra powerful nanotechnology removes the mutat= ions to keep the body in perfect shape ;) > Or else simply left out of ph= ysical descriptions--is there anything said about how Elves look at skin as= > far as beauty goes? They are light, pale, only Caranthir has got the ru= ddy complexion - if we believe Nerdanel - so his skin is red hues or he's g= ot freckles. We discussed what might that mean on a message board and there= are different opinions. He is tawny for someone, has got reddish cheeks fo= r others and freckles for the third option. I bet there are mixed ideas, to= o. Some people wonder what would happen if Feanor never made Silamrili, oth= er what was Caranthir's face like ;) > (Though one could also imagine that= Elves don't > have or use melanin in their bodies for pigmentation, if the= ir > bodies don't need it for sun protection...) I see it that way - for s= ome reason they didn't tan - as I understand forever pale skin (or maybe wa= lked always under umbrellas) so their skin had a different security against= sun. It must be connected with elvish eyes looking directly in Sun and ext= remely immune bodies. Sirielle =3D=3D=3D8<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3DKoniec tre=9Cci oryginalnej wiadomo=9Cci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D -- Pozdrowienia, sirielle ------------7A9513427E7CC7A-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 869 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67162 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 18:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 18:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.119) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 18:21:36 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 18:21:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 18:21:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 18:21:35 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 18:21:35 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Ca5n2atX3-9zYSk1FYWBJCvo10bsdb5W11zxQzKhS599brKU6MH6XBc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhaps= ody_the_bard" > wrote: > > > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGui= ld@yahoogroups.com, sirielle > > wrote: > > > > > I was rather= thinking of the HoME quotation given there, which I > > > think Niki provi= ded here, too, not the meaning of the word > > > "fair" > > > > > > "In t= he Lay at this point (line 1844) Celegorm has 'gleaming > > > hair'; his O= ld English name was Cynegrim Fogerfeax > > >'Fair-hair'), IV. 213." > > >= > Any hair colour can gleam. So I take this with a pinch of salt: > > red= hair, black hair, silver hair... all can gleam so this is a > > bit point= less. Also Tolkien in HOME IV you see all the sons come > > up with severa= l other names and well *shrugs* > > The key for me here isn't the gleaming= so much as the Old English > translation to "fair-hair." In the context o= f hair, I've never seen > fair used to mean anything but "light in color,"= so this tells me > that JRRT at one time thought that Celegorm would be g= olden-haired > in color. Just as Tolkien had many blonde Noldo in the beg= inning. I just can't help thinking it can't be like that when I write Celeg= orm, especially since Tolkien states it so clearly in the LOTR appendices, = that only insides Finarfin's house there were blondes... which just leads m= e to this.. http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39012142/ ;) or the Vanya= r milkman. *grin* > On that note, I found it really interesting that Rhap= sody had never > seen a blond Celegorm until my AMC ... and I had never me= t a dark- > haired Celegorm until reading Rhapsody's stories! :) I also agr= ee > with you, Rhapsody, that Celegorm's hair color in a story will never = > impede my enjoyment of that story. Ah yeah, I embraced your Tyelko imm= ediately. Everone was going like oo Kano, Maedhros or litlle Carnistir, but= for me the fav bits (even when I reread it now) is just about him. Well yo= u know that :) > For me hair colour is such a sidenote that I just forget = about it. > It is fun for discussion and debate on groups like this, but wh= en it > comes to reviewing stories, I would never mention it. There are so = > many interpretations and bits of conflicting evidence that it's rare > w= hen our "canon" becomes an issue of right and wrong. As obsessed as > I may= personally be with learning every detail of Tolkien's world, I > find thos= e readers/reviewers who try to beat down every > interpretation that does = not match their own to be incredibly > tedious individuals. Imho, of cours= e. ;) Well yeah, I encountered those, drabbled about it and after that it = went silent ;) I usually get swept of my feet by good storytelling and th= ose details just slip by me. It surely isn't going to ruin my enjoyment, ne= ither with fanart or fanfic. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 870 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 884 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 18:25:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 18:25:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 18:25:08 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.be7.11b68626 (48600) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:24:19 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174933459" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=UjMcXVUHr4hG9wtc6MoKWsO90bygTTKyLa-hFs9aw8iR26TeC6R9 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174933459 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/2007 1:21:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes: I've met plenty of people who have them and have blonde and brown hair.... I have black hair and have no freckles on my face, but a few on my shoulders and back (after some particularly bad sunburns in exotic places--probably very bad for me). ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174933459 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/26/2007 1:21:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com w= rites:
I've met
plenty of people who= have them and have blonde and brown hair....
I have black hair and have no freckles on my face, but= a few on my shoulders and back (after some particularly bad sunburns in e= xotic places--probably very bad for me).



AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more abo= ut what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174933459-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 871 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1665 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 18:25:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 18:25:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 18:25:17 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.d6a.272d2ef (48600) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:20:43 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174933243" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ocGzqCl4oTweoRxLpEGfsPel43eIPbV_wynQD2bJ5IUaIrVzoWoz X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174933243 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/2007 1:18:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: Jenny Dolfen went through with her canonically black haired Fingolfin Honestly? I did not know that. He looks very canon to me. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174933243 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/26/2007 1:18:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl write= s:
Jenny Dolfen went through with her c= anonically black
haired Fingolfin
Honestly? I did not know that. He looks very canon to me.



AOL now offers free email to ever= yone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
= -------------------------------1174933243-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 872 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41018 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 19:28:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 19:28:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.114) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 19:28:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 16666 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2007 19:26:58 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: uTf51xgVM1kO2rurKBe_NQoixBkdHHYRYkjwG8ofWszAcflikpRzCLhcsRRY.d2hUw-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:26:57 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:26:57 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <484034330.20070326191127@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1952152342-1174937217=:5298" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <987310.5298.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freckles & Skin(was The Eldar Hair Color Genome) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=qhNi2JbQn2gMdU9gODi3t7rk1A5EJzfEFFb5HKuEQ4Kd-yUFtAkdewU X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1952152342-1174937217=:5298 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> I remember it's a result of mutation in skin exposed to sun. That is one way freckles appear. However, freckles can also be in the genetic code from birth - a gene on chromosome 16, iirc, consequently the same chromosome with the gene for red hair. Personally, I can't really see Elves with freckles, but I am a science geek and just had to throw that out there. Also I agree with MithLuin about no mutation leading to no adaptation. Now, are Elves going to get skin cancer because of point mutations? Doubtful. My take is that Elves do get mutations in the DNA, but that they are much, much more adept at repairing them. And remember, not all mutations in DNA are deleterious. :) Also, regarding melanin: There are multiple polymers of melanin, and melanin is found not only in skin, but hair, the pigmented cells of the iris, and many other places. My guess is that Elves generally have *less* melanin in the skin - light skinned people still have some melanin, just not as much. Also, your skin is not monochromatic. Different areas can differ in color (think lips versus cheek, etc.). /End biology lesson. :) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. --0-1952152342-1174937217=:5298 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> I remember it's a result of mutation in skin exposed to sun.

That is one way freckles appear. However, freckles can also be in the genetic code from birth - a gene on chromosome 16, iirc, consequently the same chromosome with the gene for red hair.

Personally, I can't really see Elves with freckles, but I am a science geek and just had to throw that out there.

Also I agree with MithLuin about no mutation leading to no adaptation. Now, are Elves going to get skin cancer because of point mutations? Doubtful. My take is that Elves do get mutations in the DNA, but that they are much, much more adept at repairing them. And remember, not all mutations in DNA are deleterious. :)

Also, regarding melanin: There are multiple polymers of melanin, and melanin is found not only in skin, but hair, the pigmented cells of the iris, and many other places. My guess is that Elves generally have *less* melanin in the skin - light skinned people still have some melanin, just not as much. Also, your skin is not monochromatic. Different areas can differ in color (think lips versus cheek, etc.).

/End biology lesson.
:)


~T�rion

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Games. --0-1952152342-1174937217=:5298-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 873 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97809 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 19:41:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 19:41:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc15.comcast.net) (204.127.225.95) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 19:41:53 -0000 Received: from amailcenter10.comcast.net ([204.127.225.110]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070326193710b1500b20bae>; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:37:10 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter10.comcast.net; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:37:09 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:37:09 +0000 Message-Id: <032620071937.29902.460820E5000975E1000074CE22165258560B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Searching the Yahoo Group X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=Go-Aa2aTHzRYstp0xHhFVgkGEtChQCV2rkdxktQsQ_k0h0gfJPa1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: sirielle > > "Advanced Search." > > I had no idea such search engine exists, then we need no board for > all can be found in the group archive. I also agree to keep it closed > to the group members. I'm glad that my little note was helpful! :) This group has got me quite adept at finding the gems on both Yahoo Groups and LJ ... they are often hidden and not readily apparent to the casual user. I didn't discover Advanced Search until I needed to find one post I'd made in a sea of 68,000. It is quite a handy tool! :) Eventually, I will develop an illustrated FAQ for both the Yahoo and LJ portions of the group (as well as the group in general and our eventual archive) that will be available on the website. In the meantime, I'd be interested to know if there are any issues/questions that you all think I should address in the FAQ. What aspects of LJ or Yahoo have been challenging for you or do you think might be challenging for first-time users? When you first joined SWG, what were you uncertain about? (I am well aware that my "welcome email" needs some serious revamping! :) FAQ topics/questions would be greatly appreciated; simply send them along to my private email: DawnFelagund@comcast.net. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 874 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68787 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 19:53:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 19:53:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web58301.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.154) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 19:53:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 90727 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2007 19:53:41 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 6ORC_fQVM1k.35w_zwbmcE5XrNGdYMX5yoK6cXYmf7X8dGznR_dDN6rer56pH1Hi1TwbrUI5ulEewg1xHInfGG31kmTlYXvxtu.LX1_UH20pDRE5QpoU01TMgIwSWfr3Wuo8Wt4X84TChNA- Received: from [71.235.106.34] by web58301.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:53:41 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:53:41 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <987310.5298.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1474540179-1174938821=:90533" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <837728.90533.qm@web58301.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Niki S." Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freckles & Skin(was The Eldar Hair Color Genome) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=9gcV6jc-nLJa2ldLB3vM1Fq6W4kSd8TeXBoLmp-ZiMSthR-Eww X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes --0-1474540179-1174938821=:90533 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, Tarion--I was trying to figure out how to say the same thing, but my brain is mush! :) And this brings to mind a quote from some version of Hurin's story (I can't recall which book it was in)--people compared his younger sister Lalaith to an Elven child, saying the difference was that she didn't last as long, and then there was some note somewhere saying that humans and Elves are most like each other when they're children. I'd personally use that as an excuse for putting freckles on a young Elf, but I'm sure it gives more to think about than just freckles... And I like the idea of Elves possibly having slight mutations, but their bodies usually being better at repairing mutations that you don't have super huge varieties in different Elves... Now I wonder if Elves who grew up getting less nutrition are shorter and smaller as adults than those who grew up with adequate nutrition... (Blast it, I'm supposed to be doing homework, and it's too much fun pondering Elven genetics!) -Pulsarkat Tarion Anarore wrote: >> I remember it's a result of mutation in skin exposed to sun. That is one way freckles appear. However, freckles can also be in the genetic code from birth - a gene on chromosome 16, iirc, consequently the same chromosome with the gene for red hair. Personally, I can't really see Elves with freckles, but I am a science geek and just had to throw that out there. Also I agree with MithLuin about no mutation leading to no adaptation. Now, are Elves going to get skin cancer because of point mutations? Doubtful. My take is that Elves do get mutations in the DNA, but that they are much, much more adept at repairing them. And remember, not all mutations in DNA are deleterious. :) Also, regarding melanin: There are multiple polymers of melanin, and melanin is found not only in skin, but hair, the pigmented cells of the iris, and many other places. My guess is that Elves generally have *less* melanin in the skin - light skinned people still have some melanin, just not as much. Also, your skin is not monochromatic. Different areas can differ in color (think lips versus cheek, etc.). /End biology lesson. :) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. --------------------------------- Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. --0-1474540179-1174938821=:90533 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, Tarion--I was trying to figure out how to say the same thing, but my brain is mush! :)

And this brings to mind a quote from some version of Hurin's story (I can't recall which book it was in)--people compared his younger sister Lalaith to an Elven child, saying the difference was that she didn't last as long, and then there was some note somewhere saying that humans and Elves are most like each other when they're children. I'd personally use that as an excuse for putting freckles on a young Elf, but I'm sure it gives more to think about than just freckles...

And I like the idea of Elves possibly having slight mutations, but their bodies usually being better at repairing mutations that you don't have super huge varieties in different Elves...

Now I wonder if Elves who grew up getting less nutrition are shorter and smaller as adults than those who grew up with adequate nutrition... (Blast it, I'm supposed to be doing homework, and it's too much fun pondering Elven genetics!)

-Pulsarkat

Tarion Anarore wrote:
>> I remember it's a result of mutation in skin exposed to sun.

That is one way freckles appear. However, freckles can also be in the genetic code from birth - a gene on chromosome 16, iirc, consequently the same chromosome with the gene for red hair.

Personally, I can't really see Elves with freckles, but I am a science geek and just had to throw that out there.

Also I agree with MithLuin about no mutation leading to no adaptation. Now, are Elves going to get skin cancer because of point mutations? Doubtful. My take is that Elves do get mutations in the DNA, but that they are much, much more adept at repairing them. And remember, not all mutations in DNA are deleterious. :)

Also, regarding melanin: There are multiple polymers of melanin, and melanin is found not only in skin, but hair, the pigmented cells of the iris, and many other places. My guess is that Elves generally have *less* melanin in the skin - light skinned people still have some melanin, just not as much. Also, your skin is not monochromatic. Different areas can differ in color (think lips versus cheek, etc.).

/End biology lesson.
:)


~T�rion
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Answers users. --0-1474540179-1174938821=:90533-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 875 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20836 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 19:59:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 19:59:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc16.comcast.net) (206.18.177.56) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 19:59:43 -0000 Received: from amailcenter10.comcast.net ([204.127.225.110]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070326192707b1600dmvece>; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:27:07 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter10.comcast.net; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:27:06 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:27:06 +0000 Message-Id: <032620071927.26630.46081E8A0009369F0000680622165258560B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=_BD4sTK2bWYruwrK6JUb8Obe8rcbxsKa2c4JQvtfdOWjNMlGeh_K X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: sirielle > If you find a proof that it was rejected by John not Christopher I > will note down "Celegorm is dark haired in canon" and have my own Cel > as I had before ;) But I believe it wasn't John, so I still treat it > as another possibility. Oh, I treat it as a strong possibility too! My Celegorm has dark blond or honey-colored hair. Probably just a bit lighter than my own hair color, though that wasn't my reason for choosing it. ;) (And for those who are wondering, I am dark blond, have a few natural freckles across the bridge of my nose that darken in the summer sun, and darker freckles on my shoulders that, like Oshun said, are sun-induced. ;) And even though my Elves are not freckled, I have no strong feelings on freckled Elves either way! :^D) Honestly, I'm not too familiar with the source from which the Old English names/translations come. When I get there in the HoMe reading, I should have a better perspective on that particular passage and how it came to be rejected from the final Silmarillion; at the moment, I'm afraid that I have to take the passage at face value and group it with as nebulous "quasi-canon" as I do the rest of the HoMe. > I fully agree that his hair color should not dismiss any story about > him just because of that. I hate blond Fingolfin but it didn't stop me > enjoying a story where he was blond, though I would enjoy it more if > his blond hair didn't eyeblind me ;) I can't promise I'll never > mention that a certain character is different hair colored in canon, > but if that was the only thing I had to say I wouldn't comment at all; and I > usually comment when I like a story or an image, so it's not > dangerous, really, minor fact I may never mention. Especially after > I've seen all Jenny Dolfen went through with her canonically black > haired Fingolfin I will not nitpick on that anyone but me. If there was a detail that I found jarring, then I might mention to the author that his/her interpretation differs from mine if only in hopes that the author might provide a source or information that is new for me! :) I have learned a lot from reading fan fiction and discussing details with other authors in this way. But what I will admit gets on my nerves is comments of the unequivocal sort: "Oh, that's not the way that it is," when the "it" in question is a matter of interpretation or personal opinion rather than actual canon. If I make a legitimate blunder and someone calls me on it, okay. If I say that Feanor was a blond while the Silm says that his hair was raven-dark, then that is probably a mistake on my part, and if it was intentional, then my story should be listed as AU and the deviation done with good reason. I simply do not understand the point of these comments on stories. They are not made to generate discussion--which is my reason for bringing up differences in interpretation and seems yours as well, Sirielle--but to make it into an issue of right versus wrong ... and it's rarely that simple. In this discussion alone, I have seen four different suggestions about how to interpret the canon regarding Celegorm's hair color: he was a bright blond, dark blond, pale brown, or very dark. All make excellent points. Rhapsody gave a good half-dozen ways to interpret his epithet "the Fair." MithLuin gave several explanations for how Maedhros might have been conceivably kept alive on Thangorodrim. Yet if I wrote that he was enchanted by Morgoth, I would get at least one reviewer (I almost typed "moron," but that would not be nice now, would it? :^P) who would say, "That wasn't the way it was at all!" Which makes me want to ask where they got such a kick-ass Ouija board because, short of communi ng with Tolkien's ghost, how else could s/he know? Again, this differs for me than a comment like, "I always thought Maedhros existed on bugs and lichen for those x-number of years; I found your explanation interesting; where did you get the idea?" This generates discussion versus pitting author against reviewer in a battle royal to determine who holds the geek-crown of the Silmdom. It takes the fun out of sharing stories and, yes, also discussing canon, when we feel that we must always be on guard against attack rather than agreeing that we will all necessarily see things differently ... and that is not only inevitable but okay. Wonderful, even, because it is what keeps this community so lively! :) I simply cannot write to everyone's interpretation and it boggles me how some readers--who are often authors themselves--could ever expect that I would. And like so many have said here, what keeps me reading a story is not hair colors or Quenya translations or Orodreth's paternity but the strength of the characters and the story. To quote a good friend, if I want to read Middle-earth exactly as JRRT would have wanted it, then I will pick up LotR or The Hobbit or The Silmarillion (which is darned close, I think, even if CT admits to the occasional editorial error). I will not read fan fiction. Whee ... quite the rant just to say that I agree with you! :^D Sorry ... more Elf cookies to those who made it to the end of that! Best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 876 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14855 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 21:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 21:00:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.23) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 21:00:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 21:00:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 21:00:26 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 21:00:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <032620071937.29902.460820E5000975E1000074CE22165258560B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: learned exchanges (was: Elven Hair Color Genome) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=F2-lH7XMC4XTKvZglROMEDcdI5-EWWKy-K3DWhvZ8Sl0OiOL6-30a4aY X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses Hi, all, Since these very learned discussions started, what, two weeks ago?= , I've been feeling that I'm watching a tennis match with the ideas/sugge= stions/quotations/links flying back and forth at dazzling speed. Congratu= lations to everybody involved. Angelica (crawls back to the stands before = a block of ice from Helcaraxe with bits of elven DNA hits me on the head) = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 877 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22763 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 21:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 21:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.125) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 21:36:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 60041 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2007 21:36:34 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: EkEM.qsVM1klkNkGFUQrH1h8lVjzb9D.ZsHhj6n6RKqtmZDz4Z8ZNFA0OynXLV7R7O5vEWRPtrfUa_Uxm3p_blss.Gx41md873A2oWWcvyG2zRf_6BfmMR5Oi30ikGp1W1ZigDPW6nnemU4xKNG7947I Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:36:34 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:36:34 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <837728.90533.qm@web58301.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-308439306-1174944994=:59897" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <145434.59897.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Freckles & Skin(was The Eldar Hair Color Genome) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=L9rkBfsTKlj5ArfQ9qCaJUqDtWV2GJ-taOrnFy2M6m5-Ia1i2conER8 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-308439306-1174944994=:59897 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No problem. :-) Homework? Pah. This is just as educational! ;-) And yes, my mind strays to Elves during class to Elves at least once per day!!! Of course, if I am pondering Elven genetics in a genetics class, I don't feel too guilty. ;-) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. --0-308439306-1174944994=:59897 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No problem. :-)

Homework? Pah. This is just as educational! ;-) And yes, my mind strays to Elves during class to Elves at least once per day!!! Of course, if I am pondering Elven genetics in a genetics class, I don't feel too guilty. ;-)


~T�rion

Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
always stay connected to friends. --0-308439306-1174944994=:59897-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 878 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43903 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 22:03:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 22:03:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 22:03:56 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F07062809C for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:03:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:03:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:04:01 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <402482042.20070327000401@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=VYToyHSWIkLLeLbWHwnEBg12Sxo2ju64MqqCyWCrDpo7d3p_4uk X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, just a short note, it's after midnight: > Never overdose the be= auty factor? You are making me=A0laugh at > myself, Sirielle! Should I tak= e that personally? No, I haven't! I saw the link and remember to read it, = but I have a long list of fan fics to read, I talk too much and read or cre= ate to little recently ;) But I will read, how could I not - Maitimo and Fi= ndekano :D Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 879 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63665 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 22:08:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 22:08:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 22:08:03 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FCD258047 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:08:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:08:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:08:07 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1338503751.20070327000807@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=7b1nvvLhkrSYW3E-iVymmwPmKClRBtDmleCgnZ27EwyXQwCM-3U X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle > I love her Maedhros, with and without freckles. I love the "Dispossessed" one. > http://tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/strony/Maitimo_Moryo_Findekano_Tyelko.htm Illustration to "The Follower" by Ivanneth, these two are genius artists and writers ^_^ Goodnight! Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 880 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25721 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 22:14:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 22:14:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 22:14:01 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.d0a.bed3a33 (48600) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 18:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 18:11:57 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174947117" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=W_qxfWa2chXa8eQJoHKvCuInlKlSRQVCw3GqogzwgMh2gimWEe7_ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174947117 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/2007 5:08:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: Illustration to "The Follower" by Ivanneth, these two are genius artists and writers ^_^ Does the story exist in English? I am getting very upset these days that I cannot read Polish. I am always wondering what fics these great illustrations go with... ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174947117 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/26/2007 5:08:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl write= s:
Illustration to "The Follower" by Iv= anneth, these two are genius
artists and writers ^_^

Does the story exist in English? I am ge= tting very upset these days that I cannot read Polish. I am always wonderi= ng what fics these great illustrations go with...



=
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out= more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174947117-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 881 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87761 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2007 09:58:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2007 09:58:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2007 09:58:13 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7293748095 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 11:52:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 11:52:38 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 11:52:40 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1805632702.20070327115240@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=UdUqX5oGNA8v7kQiumE5KVrsVKI0gvEUFm-c9jMQ6psuRKtmizQ X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle > Does the story exist in English? I am getting very upset these > days that I cannot read Polish. I am always wondering what fics > these great illustrations go with... Ivanneth is native English speaker AFAIK, at least she writs in English - The Follower is a must :D http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1645746/1/ Kasiopea's "Dispossessed" are available in English issue of "Aiglos": http://aiglos.tolkien.com.pl/english/ I haven't heard if she has posted it anywhere else in English, but you may try to find it by the title. Or just ask her of it :) Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 882 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89378 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2007 16:33:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2007 16:33:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2007 16:33:19 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.be9.122aa789 (29672) for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 12:33:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 12:33:08 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1175013188" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=cu6AybJuFGaVdNtPGpSoPAg7r6nieaiN6frW1OWKplBAjihd9r2n X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1175013188 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/27/2007 4:58:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: Ivanneth is native English speaker AFAIK, at least she writs in English - The Follower is a must :D _http://www.fanfictihttp://wwhttp://www_ (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1645746/1/) Kasiopea's "Dispossessed" are available in English issue of "Aiglos": _http://aiglos.http://aiglohttp://aigl_ (http://aiglos.tolkien.com.pl/english/) Oh, thanks so much for the references! I read Ivanneth's The Follower last night and really liked it. Also, it did give me that nothing-new-under-the-sun feeling. Her Maitimo and Findekano reminded me a lot of mine and hers were created years and years ago and I already thought mine were so heavily influenced by Dawn F.'s. Oh well. Guess I am not as original as I wish I were. But you are so right. It is a great read. I will try to get my hands on The Dispossessed. From her illustrations I have seen that go with it and the title, I expect that it will break my heart. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1175013188 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/27/2007 4:58:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl write= s:
Ivanneth is native English speaker A= FAIK, at least she writs in
English - The Follower is a must :D
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1645746/1/=

Kasiopea's "Dispossessed" are available in English issue of = "Aiglos":

http://aiglos.tolkien.com.= pl/english/

Oh,= thanks so much for the references! I read Ivanneth's The Follower last ni= ght and really liked it. Also, it did give me that nothing-new-under-= the-sun feeling. Her Maitimo and Findekano reminded me a lot of mine and h= ers were created years and years ago and I already thought mine were so he= avily influenced by Dawn F.'s. Oh well. Guess I am not as original as I wi= sh I were. But you are so right. It is a great read.
 
I will try to get my hands on The Dispossessed. From her illustratio= ns I have seen that go with it and the title, I expect that it will break = my heart.
 
 



AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out mor= e about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1175013188-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 883 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44939 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2007 00:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2007 00:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.8) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2007 00:38:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2007 00:37:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2007 00:37:22 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 00:37:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="2-4151049103-8294935397=:8" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "eldariel_perdhel" Subject: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=FfV0bWn-WS_cqa1KYVsiiSSQoXlD7u6-vERR3sw5AiF_c-FQOV8mkF1how X-Yahoo-Profile: eldariel_perdhel --2-4151049103-8294935397=:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Title: Inseparable, Even Unto Death Author: Calenlass Greenleaf Disclaim= er: Tolkien owns Elrond and Elros. I own nothing. Spoilers: Tiny spoilers = for the Silmarillion. Rating: PG-13 for angst. No slash. Any mentioned lov= e is either familial or brotherly love. I don't write slash. Summary: My f= irst Silmarillion fan fic and non-LOTR fanfic=97a prose poem about Elrond a= nd Elros. Inseparable, Even Unto Death I chose the way of the Firstborn= , The way of immortality, Of unending life. oOo My choice was not an ea= sy one, But a hard one, One that took much thought. oOo I wonder what i= t would be like if I chose something different, Like my brother. oOo Had= I chosen a mortal's life, My life on this earth would be short, Ephemera= l. oOo But I do not regret my choice. It was destiny. =97Elrond TTTTTT= TTTTTT I chose the way of the Secondborn, The way of mortality, Of a sho= rt life. oOo My choice was not an easy one, But a hard one, One that to= ok much thought. oOo I wonder what it would be like if I chose something = different, Like my brother. oOo Had I chose an immortal's life, My life= on earth would be long, Everlasting. oOo But I do not regret my choice.= It was destiny. =97Elros TTTTTTTTTTTTTT Though we chose two different = roads, Two different lives, Many things do not change. oOo We are still= brothers, Bound by blood, By our oaths. oOo Though the years will stre= tch long, Though a time may come when we can no longer meet, We are insep= arable, Even unto death. oOo We will never say goodbye, Only a last far= ewell. =97Elrond and Elros The End --2-4151049103-8294935397=:8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Title: Inseparable, Even Unto Death

Author: Calenlass Greenleaf=

Disclaimer:= Tolkien owns Elrond and Elros. = I own nothing.

Spoilers: Tiny = spoilers for the Silmarillion.

Rating: PG-13 for angst. No slash. Any mentioned love is either fam= ilial or brotherly love. I don't write slash.

Summary: My first Silmarillion fan fic and non-LOTR fanfi= c=97a prose poem about Elrond and Elros.

Inseparable, Even Unto Death

=

 

I chose the way of the Firstborn,

The way of immortality,

Of unending life.

oOo<= o>

My choice was not an easy one= ,

But a hard one,

One that took much thought.

oOo

I wonder what it would be like if I chose something different,<= /o>

Like my brother.<= /p>

= oOo

Had I chosen a mortal's life,

My life on this earth would be short,

Ephemeral.

oOo

But I do not regret my= choice.

It was destiny.

=97Elrond<= /p>

= TTTTTTTTTTTT

I chose the way of the Secondborn,

The way of mortality,

Of a short life.

oOo

My choice was not an e= asy one,

But a hard one,

One that took much thought.<= /o>

oOo

I wonder what it would be like if I chose something di= fferent,

Like my brother.<= /o>

oOo

Had I chose an immortal's life,

My life on earth would be long,

=

Everlasting.

oOo

But I do not r= egret my choice.

It was desti= ny.

=97Elros=

TTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Though we chose two different roads,

<= span style=3D"font-size: 9pt;">Two different lives,

Many things do not change.

oOo

We a= re still brothers,

Bound by b= lood,

By our oaths.

oOo

Though the years will stretch long,

Though a time may come when we can no longer meet,<= /o>

We are inseparable,

Even unto death.

oOo

W= e will never say goodbye,

O= nly a last farewell.

=97El= rond and Elros

The End

=

--2-4151049103-8294935397=:8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 884 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53720 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2007 21:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2007 21:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc16.comcast.net) (206.18.177.56) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2007 21:08:30 -0000 Received: from amailcenter04.comcast.net ([204.127.225.104]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070401210705b1600hkvjse>; Sun, 1 Apr 2007 21:07:05 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter04.comcast.net; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:07:04 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:07:04 +0000 Message-Id: <040120072107.24034.46101EF80002A15600005DE222165499760B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: April 2007 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=45Z25fOAaA9LC3_lCRX4D6AUzgvhKqkK3F5m5ahWRCPQxCxmnNkE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Our newsletter for April is up, along with new challenges! Aaaand ... You can read it on our website! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/april2007.php Yes, after much tinkering and hair-pulling (my own, don't worry), I have _finally_ finished building the basic website, and it is ready for the public. The coming months will see us expanding our Reference Library and debuting our fiction archive. With our web service, we also have a new email address: moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org. The new email will forward your message to the moderator who's in charge of the group at the moment. This should allow you to get a quick reply in the instance that I am away for vacation. If you want to speak directly to me, of course, you are welcome to continue using my personal email account, DawnFelagund@comcast.net. (99% of the time, I will be the mod who replies to the new email as well, but the other mods will have access to that account as well, so personal correspondence is best kept on my private account.) As usual, we appreciate any comments, suggestions, or ideas that our members have to offer! So feel free to test that new email account as much as you'd like. ;) My best wishes to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=silwritersguild. ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 885 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92058 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2007 18:26:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2007 18:26:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.225) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2007 18:26:28 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2007 18:26:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2007 18:26:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2007 18:26:16 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 18:26:16 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=PVB2bgFqnsSKPXOAwVTHDnOYQf8-pnYwGO_g-WRcMWR5KGZeY5zk X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, Calenlass, Very nice poem! I've always found the story of Elrond and El= ros with their separate fates to be one of the saddest in The Silmarillion= . Your last line here is beautiful and heart-rending! :) Of course, being= a hopeless sentimentalist and a sucker for happy endings, I like to think= that the fates of Elves and Men eventually includes a reunion for all of = those parted, including Elrond and Elros, after Arda is remade. Dawn P.S= .-Does anyone know: Is there definitive canon on whether Elrond and Elros = were twins or different ages? I've seen both in stories but have never rea= lly researched it myself. I'm collecting different fanons and wondered if = the notion of E&E being twins was canon, fanon, or an ambiguity (like Cele= gorm's hair color ... *ducks and hides*) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 886 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49789 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2007 18:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2007 18:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2007 18:31:59 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r8.1.) id r.c98.d573d54 (32915) for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:31:38 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1175711498" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=BgyeaB5Mq43a9uSDPoYJiMDW-rKrlEuSsx-rMIeZqzl0p3jAyZes X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1175711498 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/4/2007 1:27:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: I'm collecting different fanons and wondered if the notion of E&E being twins was canon, fanon, or an ambiguity (like Celegorm's hair color ... *ducks and hides*) My friend Gandalfs_apprentice just told me a day or two ago that she did a search on this one and concluded that it does not say anywhere in canon that they are twins. I will doublecheck with her on where she looked. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1175711498 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 4/4/2007 1:27:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.ne= t writes:
I'm collecting different fano= ns and
wondered if the notion of E&E being twins was canon, fano= n, or an
ambiguity (like Celegorm's hair color ... *ducks and hides*= )

My friend Gandalfs_app= rentice just told me a day or two ago that she did a search on this one an= d concluded that it does not say anywhere in canon that they are twins. I = will doublecheck with her on where she looked.



See what's free at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1175711498-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 887 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88770 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2007 19:06:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2007 19:06:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.108) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2007 19:06:29 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n11.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2007 19:04:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2007 19:04:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2007 19:04:57 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:04:56 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=ZEEt-NNOL4hSRl6f_8HOifpZeFa3BL6uNiMYfbjGP1f59CPA_J8t X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >= My friend Gandalfs_apprentice just told me a day or two ago that she did = a > search on this one and concluded that it does not say anywhere in ca= non that > they are twins. I will doublecheck with her on where she look= ed. I know it's not in The Silmarillion, but I wondered if there was a no= te in the HoMe somewhere. I could do a search for "Elrond" in the entire s= eries, but I know it would come up with a gazillion matches and my brain f= eels like oatmeal ... so yes, I'm too lazy to look through them all. ;) I= just looked up Elured and Elurin too ... according to the Index in The Si= lm, they aren't twins either! Elured is specifically named as the elder th= ere and Elurin as the younger. I couldn't find anything similar in the act= ual text (nor could I find that they _were_ twins either, though). Huh. I = always thought for certain that they were twins at least; I've seen them w= ritten that way more often than not and have written them that way myself!= I've always thought that having Amrod & Amras, Elured & Elurin, Elrond &= Elros, and Elladan & Elrohir _all_ as twins when "Shibboleth of Feanor" s= pecifically says that twins are rare among the Eldar was a bit too conveni= ent. (And dang, that's a lot of names that start with the letter E!) Any t= houghts or arguments for or against Elrond and Elros being twins is apprec= iated! Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 888 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80710 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2007 19:52:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2007 19:52:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2007 19:52:02 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r8.1.) id r.d2e.32c37f3 (32914) for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:51:27 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_d2e.32c37f3.33455bbf_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=BNU5EFMQ-TOnGB0xV8mTMlgutWwj-uQJLDP-AyNZMypYr6ubs_IL X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun --part1_d2e.32c37f3.33455bbf_boundary Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="part1_d2e.32c37f3.33455bbf_rel_boundary" --part1_d2e.32c37f3.33455bbf_rel_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="d2e.32c37f3_alt_bound" --d2e.32c37f3_alt_bound Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/4/2007 2:06:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: Any thoughts or arguments for or against Elrond and Elros being twins is appreciated! G.A. and I decided for our own artistic reasons that we wanted Elrond and Elros to be twins. The symmetry is just too pleasing--tantilizing and tragic--the two parts of one self (Eldar and Edain, the whole mess). If they are not they should have been; Tolkien missed real poetry there if he intended them to be simply brothers. Obviously others did not feel the same way as I do about it.... Gorgeous illustration (Kasiopea). She clearly does not think they are the same age: ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --d2e.32c37f3_alt_bound Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = <= /HEAD>
In = a message dated 4/4/2007 2:06:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@co= mcast.net writes:
Any thoughts or arg= uments for
or against Elrond and Elros being twins is appreciated!
G.A. and I decided for our ow= n artistic reasons that we wanted Elrond and Elros to be twins. The symmet= ry is just too pleasing--tantilizing and tragic--the two parts of one self= (Eldar and Edain, the whole mess). If they are not they should have been;= Tolkien missed real poetry there if he intended them to be simply br= others. Obviously others did not feel the same way as I do about it....
 
Gorgeous illustration (Kasiopea). She clearly do= es not think they are the same age:
 
 



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--d2e.32c37f3_alt_bound-- --part1_d2e.32c37f3.33455bbf_rel_boundary-- --part1_d2e.32c37f3.33455bbf_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 889 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62648 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2007 11:45:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2007 11:45:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2007 11:45:55 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2007 11:45:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2007 11:45:01 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 11:45:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=2GW2POUGIkjfzIzmKVjgCU7RODQ45wJlEMXTbsBP3Gl893tmh-r3Wzs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, hearto= foshun@ > wrote: >> My friend Gandalfs_apprentice just told me a day or tw= o ago that >> she did a search on this one and concluded that it does not = say >> anywhere in canon that they are twins. I will doublecheck with her = >> on where she looked. > > I know it's not in The Silmarillion, but I w= ondered if there was a > note in the HoMe somewhere. I could do a search f= or "Elrond" in the > entire series, but I know it would come up with a gaz= illion matches > and my brain feels like oatmeal ... so yes, I'm too lazy = to look > through them all. ;) It's in.... the Tale of the Years, War of= the Jewels where the birthdate is given and they are listed as twins. I ju= st stored the books... let me see... page 348 and it says... [> 530 > 534]= . Voyages of Earendil begin. [Added entry:] 5= 28 [> 532] Elros and Elrond twin sons of Earendil born. a bit= below: 528 (added entry) On the statement that Elros and Elrond = were twins see V.152. It is stated in The Line of Elros (Unfinished T= ales p. 218) that Elros was born 58 years before the Second Age began: t= his agrees with the changed date here (532) and the end of the First Age = in 590 (p. 346). Then.. Finally, we come to stage 'D', the typescr= ipt of The Tale of Years; but before turning to the entries beginning = with the return of Hurin there are two pencilled entries on the typescrip= t at a slightly earlier point which must be noticed: = = 497. Dior weds of the Green-elves > Dior weds Niml= oth. 500. Birth of the twin sons of Dior, Elrun and Eldun. Ther= e you go! Canon! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 890 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35093 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2007 14:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2007 14:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc14.comcast.net) (206.18.177.54) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2007 14:25:11 -0000 Received: from amailcenter05.comcast.net ([204.127.225.105]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070405135116b1400nqi5ue>; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 13:51:16 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter05.comcast.net; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 13:51:15 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 13:51:15 +0000 Message-Id: <040520071351.19337.4614FED3000639E300004B8922155670740B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=IihJBPZUhTP7LHy5Hoj81HNDYqjSHcx4rP-htAlAl-js_He4sndG X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Thanks, Rhapsody and Oshun, for the Elrond & Elros quotes! You've saved my oatmeal brain from having to sift through the books. :) It's good that I can keep both Elrond & Elros and Elured & Elurin as twins for "A Song and a Story." I could have changed "the other twins" to 'the other brothers" but then the nice parallelism with Amrod & Amras would have been lost ... it works much better to keep it this way. :) On Elured and Elurin ... the Silm index clearly says that Elured is the elder and Elurin the younger while the quote that Rhapsody gave from WotJ makes it clear that J.R.R.T. thought of them as twins at that point. But this makes me wonder: Is the Silm Index canon? This is the second time that I've come across a fact in the Index that I could not account for in the text. (The first was the declaration that Formeno was built after Feanor's banishment. Anyone who's read my stories probably knows that in the Felakverse version of things, Formenos was a town built before Feanor was even born that he later chose to make into their fortress/stronghold. There's nothing in The Silm itself that makes this impossible ...) But this Elured & Elurin example is more extreme than that because we have in the HoMe that J.R.R.T. had considered at one time Elured and Elurin to be twins. I wonder if there's a note or entry somewhere that shows the opposite: that they were just normal brothers like the Index claims. Ai, the rocky road that is Tolkien's canon ... My oatmeal brain might be coaxed into doing some research yet. ;) Thanks again and have a great day! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 891 Return-Path: X-Sender: ford_of_bruinen@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85506 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2007 16:35:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2007 16:35:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web23206.mail.ird.yahoo.com) (217.146.189.61) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2007 16:35:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 86206 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Apr 2007 16:24:09 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: yeNYVfUVM1nIN.ZCMsvGtzjPl456Wc1u62G7ZmdDdUyz6Zs5QS2070MH9o8U9HoZH49rql7wc1tISvd5c8U5cL2II0oRGcnOx8k0dkRYfz0R Received: from [86.150.75.148] by web23206.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:24:09 BST Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 17:24:09 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-6993565-1175790249=:85220" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <756775.85220.qm@web23206.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Uli ." Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=186403428; y=L4tKd_vziaumAshHeaNLfdCiNZ9P7Z4B22mghybuCAq6bVEvFFZUMRPh X-Yahoo-Profile: ford_of_bruinen --0-6993565-1175790249=:85220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi :) Well the entire Silmarillion is really finished by Christopher Tolkien and GGK (wonderful writer that he is). Which is why I admit I view it as no more or less canon than HoME. The index in particular I would set at the same level but that is me. I could also point out that even among twins one sort of has to be the elder :P So Elured can still be the elder and a twin whichout much of a problem. I won't babble on for long since my brain is surrounded by allergysnot and Not Working As It Should. I enjoy reading the debates here lately. *hugs* Uli --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-6993565-1175790249=:85220 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi :)
 
Well the entire Silmarillion is really finished by Christopher Tolkien and GGK (wonderful writer that he is). Which is why I admit I view it as no more or less canon than HoME. The index in particular I would set at the same level but that is me.
 
I could also point out that even among twins one sort of has to be the elder :P So Elured can still be the elder and a twin whichout much of a problem.
 
I won't babble on for long since my brain is surrounded by allergysnot and Not Working As It Should.
 
I enjoy reading the debates here lately.
 
*hugs*
 
Uli

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. --0-6993565-1175790249=:85220-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 892 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21381 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2007 18:09:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2007 18:09:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.106.35) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2007 18:09:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 12843 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Apr 2007 18:09:02 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: id5.0TkVM1lCcFZBrkEHPxXNR3x8DKkaDVU4_7lVVeiQgY35f2lM9i.FRmTQKVnZO8zkgyrWqPyOZ2VO8CgZZZCUhqkM.XJndToq.W7ev_dbh1yMEbbG0PsHNtcI.Q-- Received: from [67.80.109.175] by web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 11:09:02 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:09:02 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-44117140-1175796542=:10075" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <127953.10075.qm@web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Calenlass Greenleaf Subject: Re: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=OU8joo352mrOTmv7Aaj8yiCM2mGY1OjgM6F_7kouoLUrZtM6smFxhIM-2Q X-Yahoo-Profile: eldariel_perdhel --0-44117140-1175796542=:10075 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree with you, Dawn. I'm a sucker for happy endings, so I say to myself, "Tolkien wouldn't be that mean. All the good characters *must* see each other again." Glad that you liked it. :-) ~Calenlass --------------------------------- Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. --0-44117140-1175796542=:10075 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree with you, Dawn. I'm a sucker for happy endings, so I say to myself, "Tolkien wouldn't be that mean. All the good characters *must* see each other again."
Glad that you liked it. :-)
~Calenlass

Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. --0-44117140-1175796542=:10075-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 893 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38641 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2007 18:11:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2007 18:11:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.106.35) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2007 18:11:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 13786 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Apr 2007 18:11:11 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: IjxzFC4VM1kfPSOdckp3CzEv8qD7zSIGgJeBnbsEfA_uF5LpzhUL1tKcBV8e.D2uthZMALjeU9HrUx.A1UQLIN_saUnhU_vN9tsz Received: from [67.80.109.175] by web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 11:11:11 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:11:11 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-209771914-1175796671=:13018" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <580246.13018.qm@web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Calenlass Greenleaf Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=2-6tZrlB4tqui3AhOpee2mlQpuAoW2yYNtALBYkGIcFAraJpBy6vUJJ-4Q X-Yahoo-Profile: eldariel_perdhel --0-209771914-1175796671=:13018 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I noticed Kasiopia's pic. I always thought of Elrond and Elros as twins, from the first time I read about them in the Sil. ~Calenlass --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. --0-209771914-1175796671=:13018 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I noticed Kasiopia's pic. I always thought of Elrond and Elros as twins, from the first time I read about them in the Sil.
~Calenlass

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. --0-209771914-1175796671=:13018-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 894 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83449 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2007 18:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2007 18:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2007 18:29:36 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r8.1.) id r.d59.6295926 (32914) for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 14:28:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 14:28:59 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1175797739" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=NiIlVdDwpCwmB2jfCsiqpmEeqc6DTYxuQWx4isaTOpmIwqBihHsb X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1175797739 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/5/2007 1:10:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com writes: I agree with you, Dawn. I'm a sucker for happy endings, so I say to myself, "Tolkien wouldn't be that mean. All the good characters *must* see each other again." Glad that you liked it. :-) ~Calenlass To tell the truth, I must agree. Although, I have been rankling (when I am not examining my conscience and my writing) for a couple of weeks, because I heard third-hand that someone said something about my writing that I interpreted to mean that they think it is too sweet and sappy already (not whining for sympathy here--there is a healthy basis for the judgment). Oh, well. Not like I'm being paid or anything. But there is a school that posits that fics based on The Silmarillion really ought to be relentlessly dreary and despairing (OK maybe not relentlessly so--I do tend to exaggerate). But my pet peeve is still the creation of cardboard villians where, in fact, Tolkien gave real depth and contradictions. I do like the fact that the characters are not perfect and that things don't resolve cleanly and tidily, but real life is plenty grim, I like to ferret out a little humor and warmth here and there. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1175797739 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 4/5/2007 1:10:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.= com writes:

I agree with you, Dawn. = I'm a sucker for happy endings, so I say to myself, "Tolkien wouldn't be= that mean. All the good characters *must* see each other again."
Gla= d that you liked it. :-)
~Calenlass

<= DIV>
To tell the truth, I must agree. Although, I have been rank= ling (when I am not examining my conscience and my writing) for a couple o= f weeks, because I heard third-hand that someone said something about my w= riting that I interpreted to mean that they think it is too= sweet and sappy already (not whining for sympathy here--there is a health= y basis for the judgment). Oh, well. Not like I'm being paid or anything. = But there is a school that posits that fics based on The Silmarillion real= ly ought to be relentlessly dreary and despairing (OK maybe not relentless= ly so--I do tend to exaggerate). But my pet peeve is still the c= reation of cardboard villians where, in fact, Tolkien gave real depth= and contradictions. I do like the fact that the characters are not perfec= t and that things don't resolve cleanly and tidily, but real life is plent= y grim, I like to ferret out a little humor and warmth here and there.


See what's free at AOL.com. -------------------------------1175797739-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 895 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65292 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2007 18:32:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2007 18:32:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2007 18:32:25 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r8.1.) id r.d44.5b12753 (32914) for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 14:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 14:32:09 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1175797929" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=59pA0B2SYcXF5JfhNOilZ73rV2bn1hJdHqQNBlCZeEIGs4zLmJsT X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1175797929 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gorgeous picture and she has another of them on horseback with Meadhros and Maglor where they clearly are not twins. I am glad we found the canon sources, because for me the twin thing does make the whole story that much more poignant. Also I like the theme of a few sets of twins throughout the history of the Eldar for the same reason. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1175797929 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Gorgeous picture = and she has another of them on horseback with Meadhros and Maglor where th= ey clearly are not twins. I am glad we found the canon sources, because fo= r me the twin thing does make the whole story that much more poignant. Als= o I like the theme of a few sets of twins throughout the history of the Eld= ar for the same reason.



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-------------------------------1175797929-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 896 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36758 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2007 19:33:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2007 19:33:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc14.comcast.net) (204.127.225.94) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2007 19:33:40 -0000 Received: from amailcenter05.comcast.net ([204.127.225.105]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070405192439b1400nq4l9e>; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 19:24:39 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter05.comcast.net; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:24:38 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:24:38 +0000 Message-Id: <040520071924.26515.46154CF6000595860000679322155670740B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=fThs05Rc1-FohGvz_Dys2wV6Emt8q5Oqmrk42zuE3JrZ0AXDBMhP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: heartofoshun@aol.com > To tell the truth, I must agree. Although, I have been rankling (when I am > not examining my conscience and my writing) for a couple of weeks, because I > heard third-hand that someone said something about my writing that I > interpreted to mean that they think it is too sweet and sappy already (not > whining for > sympathy here--there is a healthy basis for the judgment). Oh, well. Not > like I'm being paid or anything. But there is a school that posits that fics > based on The Silmarillion really ought to be relentlessly dreary and despairing > (OK maybe not relentlessly so--I do tend to exaggerate). But my pet peeve is > still the creation of cardboard villians where, in fact, Tolkien gave real > depth and contradictions. I do like the fact that the characters are not > perfect and that things don't resolve cleanly and tidily, but real life is > plenty > grim, I like to ferret out a little humor and warmth here and there. I've been accused of the same thing, Oshun, so I empathize. I had something of a kerfluffle with a person over at the aptly nicknamed Pit of Voles (not about his/her criticism of my story so much as her/his pompous and condescending comments ... but I digress) about "Another Man's Cage" being too syrupy sweet. And it *is* really syrupy sweet in places; I don't deny that. But I sort of take the opposite bent as those who maintain that all Silmfic must be somewhat grim. In the case of AMC, it is set in Valinor prior to Melkor's release. Why would any of the characters living in Aman be grim at all? They're living in paradise, most without a care in the world. It was kind of funny, getting criticized for this on ff.net shortly after beginning to post there, because when I started writing AMC three years ago, I felt that I didn't make Valinor quite joyful and carefree enough. There's a good bit of darkness in AMC, and I worried that people would criticize me for this, saying that I was being too dreary too soon. It just goes to show that you can't please everyone. :) But your first Maedhros/Fingon story certainly fits the same bill as AMC (since it only takes place about thirty-five years after AMC ;), so criticizing it for being too sweet seems a little silly to me (if that was the story that was being criticized at all). And I agree with you about cardboard villains too. I fell in love with this book because of my desire to understand the characters; I simply could not stop thinking about them. And judging by the depth and the passion of the debates over whether Feanor/Thingol/the Valar/Melkor are good guys or bad guys, I'm not alone in this. :) All the best, Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 897 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66769 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2007 20:47:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2007 20:47:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2007 20:47:55 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r8.1.) id r.cf2.d26a9f5 (32914) for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 16:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 16:47:19 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1175806039" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=WSsKQGuk2RUFFoaHta-U0lmKPd1FNjoKN9cIHHxTA81dh3QBzpyH X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1175806039 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Dawn. Although, I truly wasn't fishing. One of the things age has taught me is that I can only be myself. What I've loved about your novel is the way that you toss in foreshadowing at the least expected times. Was just reading Nelyo's drunken rambling today and his terrible forboding. Not light stuff. Neither do I think that Feanor's sons and their cousins spent the entire first 500 years of the First Age wanting to slit their throats at every moment either--simply not possible they just got too much done. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1175806039 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Thanks, Dawn. Alt= hough, I truly wasn't fishing. One of the things age has taught me is that= I can only be myself.
 
What I've loved about y= our novel is the way that you toss in foreshadowing at the least expe= cted times. Was just reading Nelyo's drunken rambling today and his terrib= le forboding. Not light stuff. Neither do I think that Feanor's sons and t= heir cousins spent the entire first 500 years of the First Age wanting to = slit their throats at every moment either--simply not possible they just g= ot too much done. 



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-------------------------------1175806039-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 898 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70166 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2007 21:30:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2007 21:30:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.125) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2007 21:30:23 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2007 21:30:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2007 21:30:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2007 21:30:01 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 21:29:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <040520071924.26515.46154CF6000595860000679322155670740B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "eldariel_perdhel" Subject: Re: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=ywZ9R_gdN84LyJg-Egk0Nx_jPD0HVBbC3s-y9p5YR9fCM5FuvmAyTs2QRw X-Yahoo-Profile: eldariel_perdhel Someone thought your story was sappy? Not really. Sweet, but not sappy. I = never liked stories that had dark endings--can't bear them. I manged to end= ure reading Akallabeth, however. ~Cal --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo= groups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > > > From: heartofoshun@... > > To te= ll the truth, I must agree. Although, I have been rankling (when I am > >= not examining my conscience and my writing) for a couple of weeks, because= I > > heard third-hand that someone said something about my writing that= I > > interpreted to mean that they think it is too sweet and sappy alre= ady (not > > whining for > > sympathy here--there is a healthy basis for= the judgment). Oh, well. Not > > like I'm being paid or anything. But th= ere is a school that posits that fics > > based on The Silmarillion reall= y ought to be relentlessly dreary and despairing > > (OK maybe not relent= lessly so--I do tend to exaggerate). But my pet peeve is > > still the cr= eation of cardboard villians where, in fact, Tolkien gave real > > depth = and contradictions. I do like the fact that the characters are not > > pe= rfect and that things don't resolve cleanly and tidily, but real life is = > > plenty > > grim, I like to ferret out a little humor and warmth here = and there. > > I've been accused of the same thing, Oshun, so I empathize.= I had something of a kerfluffle with a person over at the aptly nicknamed = Pit of Voles (not about his/her criticism of my story so much as her/his po= mpous and condescending comments ... but I digress) about "Another Man's Ca= ge" being too syrupy sweet. And it *is* really syrupy sweet in places; I do= n't deny that. But I sort of take the opposite bent as those who maintain t= hat all Silmfic must be somewhat grim. In the case of AMC, it is set in Val= inor prior to Melkor's release. Why would any of the characters living in A= man be grim at all? They're living in paradise, most without a care in the = world. It was kind of funny, getting criticized for this on ff.net shortly = after beginning to post there, because when I started writing AMC three yea= rs ago, I felt that I didn't make Valinor quite joyful and carefree enough.= There's a good bit of darkness in AMC, and I worried that people would cri= ticize me for this, saying that I was > being too dreary too soon. > > It= just goes to show that you can't please everyone. :) > > But your first M= aedhros/Fingon story certainly fits the same bill as AMC (since it only tak= es place about thirty-five years after AMC ;), so criticizing it for being = too sweet seems a little silly to me (if that was the story that was being = criticized at all). > > And I agree with you about cardboard villains too.= I fell in love with this book because of my desire to understand the chara= cters; I simply could not stop thinking about them. And judging by the dept= h and the passion of the debates over whether Feanor/Thingol/the Valar/Melk= or are good guys or bad guys, I'm not alone in this. :) > > All the best, = > Dawn > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 899 Return-Path: X-Sender: IamaHobbit@hisurfer.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81913 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2007 22:33:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2007 22:33:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.59) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2007 22:33:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2007 22:33:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2007 22:33:01 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:33:01 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <580246.13018.qm@web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "merrykbookworm" Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142538951; y=Rml7vkhIrQWEXrQgHJ9C7kvmSTHqoGl-4U_ixA9XJnqfvA3-mtx_IYQ X-Yahoo-Profile: merrykbookworm --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Calenlass Greenleaf wrote: > > I noticed Kasiopia's pic. I always thought of E= lrond and Elros as twins, from the first time I read about them in the Sil.= > ~Calenlass I usually err on the non-twin side...it seems more natural t= o me, and I love the idea of Elrond being the older more responsible firstb= orn (heh, isn't 'responsible' a given with firstborns?), with Elros as the = younger one who was infatuated with Men and the passion they have for life.= I was even more convinced after reading a Maglor-cares-for-Elrond-and-Elro= s fic, and Elrond seemed so much in character as an older brother. ~MerryK= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 900 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelfwine@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16888 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2007 09:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2007 09:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.251) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2007 09:00:09 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n29.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 08:59:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 08:59:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 08:59:45 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:59:45 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "neldhw" Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=259883371; y=nzErFJ5JApJFCFBxlpeg-oxx3xDVV8o84gxotHGrSRcc X-Yahoo-Profile: neldhw > I usually err on the non-twin side...it seems more natural to me, and > = I love the idea of Elrond being the older more responsible firstborn > (heh= , isn't 'responsible' a given with firstborns?), with Elros as the > younge= r one who was infatuated with Men and the passion they have for > life. I w= as even more convinced after reading a > Maglor-cares-for-Elrond-and-Elros = fic, and Elrond seemed so much in > character as an older brother. > > ~Mer= ryK On the contrary, I like to have Elros and Elrond be twins, and/or have= Elros be the more responsible of the two - he did become a great King afte= r all, and was given great responsibilities much earlier than Elrond was. I= think that's also because there are so many fics in which Elrond is nothin= g but a Responsible and Serious father/lord/herald/healer and even child...= I like to have him err a little, be wrong. Perfect characters...well. (Plus= I'm sure his foster fathers would have a lot to teach him as far as being = wrong is concerned.) And I think it quite depressing to have a character be= exactly the same from birth to adulthood - especially an immortal one. -Ne= ld From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 901 Return-Path: X-Sender: IamaHobbit@hisurfer.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36989 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2007 18:11:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2007 18:11:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2007 18:11:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 18:09:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 18:08:57 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 18:08:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "merrykbookworm" Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142538951; y=VQZ63Zr9URLe0CCzf9aE07cRYeCfDm7Ejzj--W36ZkoQT1vZrgahvEE X-Yahoo-Profile: merrykbookworm > On the contrary, I like to have Elros and Elrond be twins, and/or have > = Elros be the more responsible of the two - he did become a great King > aft= er all, and was given great responsibilities much earlier than Elrond > was= . I think that's also because there are so many fics in which Elrond > is n= othing but a Responsible and Serious father/lord/herald/healer and > even c= hild...I like to have him err a little, be wrong. Perfect > characters...we= ll. (Plus I'm sure his foster fathers would have a lot to > teach him as fa= r as being wrong is concerned.) And I think it quite > depressing to have a= character be exactly the same from birth to > adulthood - especially an im= mortal one. > -Neld The thing is, we don't know anything about Elros' char= acter, while we do know a lot about Elrond's. I don't like having immortal = characters the same all their life either, but I have to be able to explain= how they got to where they are when we meet them in the story. Feanor just= didn't start killing people=97there are reasonable explanations for how he= became that way. Just so with Elrond. We know that he took on a lot of res= ponsibility after Gil-Galad's death. We know that he is wise and kind, but = also protective of those he loves. We know that he cares about Men (unlike = in the movie), and fosters their hope in Rivendell. Where does this come fr= om? I see him learning responsibility by taking care of his younger brother= , learning wisdom and kindness from Maglor (who, as you said, must have had= much good advice to offer), and caring for Men because he sees them as the= children of his little brother. And as for the symmetry? Well, I vary in = moods as a writer. Sometimes I like to do things how Tolkien did them, with= symmetry and symbolism, and more epic language. Other times I like to do t= hings more realistically, throwing off symmetry and adding in random things= to keep the feel uncontrived. When it comes to Elrond and Elros, I feel li= ke the twin idea has gone too far, that the symmetry is almost too forced. = My personal opinion, of course, but I think it makes the story feel more re= al to have them as merely brothers. ~MerryK From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 902 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11917 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2007 20:06:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2007 20:06:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.214) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2007 20:06:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 20:05:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 20:05:45 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 20:05:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <040520071351.19337.4614FED3000639E300004B8922155670740B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Kp8bsL9eYw740Vd-X6J1M50C56DX0_doSDNiG_9G69E0HGyKVXPDJR4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Thanks, Rhapsody and Oshun, for the Elrond & Elros quotes! You've > save= d my oatmeal brain from having to sift through the books. :) Well, I just = have had my nose in HOME a lot the past days. The thing is with me, I usual= ly catch side things and this was one of it while I was actually reading HO= ME for something else. That's where usually my almost standard phrase comes= from: I thought I read *somewhere* that... I bet this will drive people in= sane from time to time, including myself. > It's good that I can keep bot= h Elrond & Elros and Elured & Elurin as > twins for "A Song and a Story." I= could have changed "the other > twins" to 'the other brothers" but then t= he nice parallelism with > Amrod & Amras would have been lost ... it works= much better to keep > it this way. :) That's good to hear :) > On Elur= ed and Elurin ... the Silm index clearly says that Elured is > the elder a= nd Elurin the younger while the quote that Rhapsody gave > from WotJ makes= it clear that J.R.R.T. thought of them as twins at > that point. But this= makes me wonder: Is the Silm Index canon? This > is the second time that = I've come across a fact in the Index that I > could not account for in the= text. (The first was the declaration > that Formeno was built after Feano= r's banishment. Anyone who's read > my stories probably knows that in the = Felakverse version of things, > Formenos was a town built before Feanor wa= s even born that he later > chose to make into their fortress/stronghold. = There's nothing in The > Silm itself that makes this impossible ...) But t= his Elured & > Elurin example is more extreme than that because we have in= the HoMe > that J.R.R.T. had considered at one time Elured and Elurin to b= e > twins. I wonder if there's a note or entry somewhere that shows the >= opposite: that they were just normal brothers like the Index claims. > Ai,= the rocky road that is Tolkien's canon ... Not that I have seen: sons of = Dior and such. Not an age difference. As Uli said and most parents of twins= I know will automatically talk, even with twins who is the elder. A friend= of mine gave birth to twins and one of them was born before midnight, the = other after, so both have a different birthday and yet they are twins. Of = course it is also the case that a mother *can* give birth within the same y= ear. If a child is born in January for example and the mother's reproductiv= e system kicks in, lets say 3 to 6 weeks after she gave birth that would be= roughly end feb of March (because yes this is possible), a child can still= be born in December (that is if you reckon a range between 38 to 42 weeks)= . Also I know, hehehe, that if a mother in medieval ages carried her child = too long and put herself at risk, a lot of prayer went on and sometimes the= child was born by means of a caesarian (yes even back then)... probably to= o much info, but I just came across this during my research for my novel ho= w such a situation regarding a duchess was written. Probably TMI huh? ;c)= Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 903 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26466 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2007 20:11:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2007 20:11:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2007 20:11:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 20:10:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 20:10:19 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 20:10:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=xSYZk5EltFGpnXZVlw7yx5_ShpNaJBPoUIJDUj8WFpiVc7D6GDJHjyc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > In a message dated 4/4/2007 2:06:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, > Daw= nFelagund@... writes: > G.A. and I decided for our own artistic reasons t= hat we wanted > Elrond and Elros to be twins. The symmetry is just too > = pleasing--tantilizing and tragic--the two parts of one self (Eldar > and E= dain, the whole mess). If they are not they should have been; > Tolkien m= issed real poetry there if he intended them to be simply > brothers. Obvi= ously others did not feel the same way as I do about > it.... I don't th= ink he missed that.. > Gorgeous illustration (Kasiopea). She clearly do= es not think they > are the same age: Well, you know, it is a known fact = that with twins there can be differences in development: not every kid is t= he same. Some grow fast, others have more difficulties and remain a bit sma= ller. I know what image you mean, for me it just shows that they are so di= fferent in development: mentally and physcially. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 904 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 748 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2007 20:12:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2007 20:12:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2007 20:12:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 20:06:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 20:06:48 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 20:06:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <756775.85220.qm@web23206.mail.ird.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=THUZ68D54jICWD9-wc9LjQwltpai9yfibch1if7hXxX5TgeMrwIXmPI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Uli ." wrote: > > Hi :) > > Well the entire Silmarillion is really finis= hed by Christopher > Tolkien and GGK (wonderful writer that he is). Which i= s why I admit > I view it as no more or less canon than HoME. The index in= > particular I would set at the same level but that is me. GGK? > = I could also point out that even among twins one sort of has to be > the el= der :P So Elured can still be the elder and a twin whichout > much of a pr= oblem. Yeps. :) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 905 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27821 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2007 20:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2007 20:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.183) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2007 20:28:04 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 20:25:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 20:25:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2007 20:25:20 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 20:25:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=K8CbUFV1Ed5mswAhS54f91ADxF2jypFLS9b7QhGpJPk0vLlgIRVhDB0 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > In a message dated 4/5/2007 1:10:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, > eld= ariel_perdhel@... writes: > > I agree with you, Dawn. I'm a sucker for hap= py endings, so I say to > myself, "Tolkien wouldn't be that mean. All the g= ood characters > *must* see each other again." > Glad that you liked it. = :-) Well... what about those who did evil things, but were good at the be= ginning? So no, I don't agree :) > To tell the truth, I must agree. Althou= gh, I have been rankling >(when I am not examining my conscience and my wr= iting) for a couple < of weeks, because I heard third-hand that someone sa= id something > about my writing that I interpreted to mean that they think= it is > too sweet and sappy already (not whining for sympathy here--ther= e > is a healthy basis for the judgment). Oh, well. Oshun, it just... de= pends on what you like to write. There is really no shame in wanting to wri= te a romance story that leaves the reader with a good feeling all along. I,= when I write romance, tend to write incredibly angsty material and let the= characters struggle a lot, just dip them in deep misery first before they = get what they want. Sometimes I get yelled at that, that for gods sake, giv= e the lovers at least some happiness ;) I know plenty of good writers who s= quick at the moment it becomes dark and despairing. I just can't help it. S= orry. I tend to like writing tragedy/drama/angst or explore the darker side= s of romance. Must be my elves ;) > But there is a school that posits tha= t fics based on The > Silmarillion really ought to be relentlessly dreary = and despairing > (OK maybe not relentlessly so--I do tend to exaggerate).= That depends, each writer to their own category, you know, but there is = plenty of room for everything methinks. > But my pet peeve is still the c= reation of cardboard villians where, > in fact, Tolkien gave real depth an= d contradictions. I do like the > fact that the characters are not perfec= t and that things don't > resolve cleanly and tidily, but real life is pl= enty grim, I like to > ferret out a little humor and warmth here and there= . It really depends with which character you do that. Sometimes it doesn't= work for me and it truly depends on the skill of the writer to pull that o= ff. Good characterisation & plot is very important. But yes, as I was telli= ng a fellow author the other day, it is sometimes for example very standard= to put Curufin down as utterly evil. Sure, there is enough in HOME or the = Silm that backs it up, but at the same time there is so much going on with = that character that I can see and understand the why. If you would like to = see the world as black & white, but cannot see the grey/beige that is in To= lkien's works as well... It is so much in there, good characters doing evil= things. For example: Maeglin, how much did the events with his father shap= ed him to become like this, but was he truly evil? Or as I had lately a sup= er interesting discussion about if H=FArin betrayed and led to the downfall= of Gondolin or not. So yeah... Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 906 Return-Path: X-Sender: ford_of_bruinen@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80289 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2007 15:18:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2007 15:18:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web23208.mail.ird.yahoo.com) (217.146.189.63) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2007 15:18:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 34529 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Apr 2007 15:06:42 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: MK7nyqwVM1nmw1mFEVaozrrlkVujpJdsq1.d1315eSHDi5hrUKIRablnGXFK9CJvzlYzqHJkRLgrO9c2FKiYEq4- Received: from [86.131.252.238] by web23208.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:06:41 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/478 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.8 Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 15:06:41 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1152782639-1175958401=:32319" Message-ID: <1136.32319.qm@web23208.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Uli ." Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=186403428; y=iseFrbg4-6J2O4J8QLtaLpC5e7uQMTInZxuGkVCC3mncG66KaJ54A7A5 X-Yahoo-Profile: ford_of_bruinen --0-1152782639-1175958401=:32319 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Hi :) Sorry about that... GGK = Guy Gavriel Kay, amazing fantasy writer in his own right these days. He worked for the Tolkien estate and aided Christopher Tolkien in making the Silmarillion into a readable story (1974-1975) before it was published. I guess that is part of why I personally don't credit Silmarillion as more canon than HoMe, also the fact that C Tolkien has admitted he made mistakes in waht to include tends to cloud it for me. ( GOtta love the old discussion of who fathered Gil-Galad). Anyway his was not meant to be a discussion on the validity of Tolkien sources, each to their own. Anyone has a first age, non Noldorin elf-muse handy for immidiate rental? :) Uli ___________________________________________________________ Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy and free. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.html --0-1152782639-1175958401=:32319 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii
Hi :)
 
Sorry about that... GGK = Guy Gavriel Kay, amazing fantasy writer in his own right these days. He worked for the Tolkien estate and aided Christopher Tolkien in making the Silmarillion into a readable story (1974-1975) before it was published.
 
I guess that is part of why I personally don't credit Silmarillion as more canon than HoMe, also the fact that C Tolkien has admitted he made mistakes in waht to include tends to cloud it for me. ( GOtta love the old discussion of who fathered Gil-Galad).
 
Anyway his was not meant to be a discussion on the validity of Tolkien sources, each to their own.
 
Anyone has a first age, non Noldorin elf-muse handy for immidiate rental? :)

Uli

What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. --0-1152782639-1175958401=:32319-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 907 Return-Path: X-Sender: ford_of_bruinen@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69530 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2007 15:38:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2007 15:38:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web23213.mail.ird.yahoo.com) (217.146.189.68) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2007 15:38:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 31622 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Apr 2007 15:27:41 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: vmt185AVM1nkwXLFxC9Vaftupnc4dCCxdu7avHZ__qZ_mGIGA9XuFIeAtXGz16CTetTijuJLrNXDYknV1BmEA8A4fpnF48S4MA-- Received: from [86.131.252.238] by web23213.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:27:41 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/478 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.8 Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 15:27:41 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-426380476-1175959661=:30536" Message-ID: <928240.30536.qm@web23213.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Uli ." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=186403428; y=GrSagUpMylml_cUqHi265V6zSMhO9bSF6HlUxBouExqAij7mMNhY0Xj5 X-Yahoo-Profile: ford_of_bruinen --0-426380476-1175959661=:30536 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > In a message dated 4/5/2007 1:10:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, > eld= ariel_perdhel@ ... writes: > > I agree with you, Dawn. I'm a sucker for ha= ppy endings, so I say to > myself, "Tolkien wouldn't be that mean. All the = good characters > *must* see each other again." > Glad that you liked it. = :-) Well... what about those who did evil things, but were good at the beg= inning? So no, I don't agree :) I think I must admit that I am with Rhapso= dy on this one. I admit I do not neccessarily see all joining up happily in= Valinor in the end. Partly because I think everyone returned greatly chang= ed, partly because I think some were kept from rebirth long enough to make = reunions awkward and I would not be suprised if a few never actually heeded= the call of Mandos after death. In addition to that there is Maglor... I t= end to favour a Maglor that never do sail west. Then again I like dark endi= ngs as well as happy ones. In fact if the ending is happy I tend to need mo= re convincing by the writer to actually accept that it suits the story. :) = > To tell the truth, I must agree. Although, I have been rankling >(when = I am not examining my conscience and my writing) for a couple < of weeks, = because I heard third-hand that someone said something > about my writing = that I interpreted to mean that they think it is > too sweet and sappy alr= eady (not whining for sympathy here--there > is a healthy basis for the ju= dgment). Oh, well. Oshun, it just... depends on what you like to write. Th= ere is really no shame in wanting to write a romance story that leaves the = reader with a good feeling all along. I, when I write romance, tend to writ= e incredibly angsty material and let the characters struggle a lot, just di= p them in deep misery first before they get what they want. Sometimes I get= yelled at that, that for gods sake, give the lovers at least some happines= s ;) I know plenty of good writers who squick at the moment it becomes dark= and despairing. I just can't help it. Sorry. I tend to like writing traged= y/drama/ angst or explore the darker sides of romance. Must be my elves ;) = First thing about writing is to write teh story you want to tell no matter= what everyone else says :) (Take note that this does not encourage large a= mounts of feedback ;) ). I think, in my opinion, that there is a balance in= romance of making it into something warm but not sappy. I will admit that = I am not a fan of sappy (apart from certain days of the month) but I do enj= oy warm stories. I have written a few romances (I think) that has aimed to = be warm and not angsty but I do find them generally hard because there is l= ess of a conflict to work with in the story. Conflict tends to mean at leas= t a certain degree of angst and despair when I write :-) Of course I tend t= o find that balancing sweetness with foreshadowing works increadibly well w= hen you write Feanorians (Or even better Fingon/Maedhros) ;) Got to love Si= lmarillion with all its dark and despairing stories. In fact the romances I= really enjoy in Silmarillion fandom are the ones that occur in between and= despite the rather bleak lives and history they all deal with. Then agai= n I think I am more famous for angst then I am for sweetness ;) I qoute Rha= psody "Must be my elves" . No one ever believes me when I say that though. = > But there is a school that posits that fics based on The > Silmarillion= really ought to be relentlessly dreary and despairing > (OK maybe not rel= entlessly so--I do tend to exaggerate). That depends, each writer to thei= r own category, you know, but there is plenty of room for everything methin= ks. I would suspect that school of thought comes from the darkness of the = actual Silmarillion. But even in dark times people tend to fall in love and= do good things and have nice things happen. There is a balance I think bet= ween the dark and the light. I do admit though that I am more drawn to the = darkness personally but when reading I will read anything well written. :) = > But my pet peeve is still the creation of cardboard villians where, > i= n fact, Tolkien gave real depth and contradictions. I do like the > fact t= hat the characters are not perfect and that things don't > resolve cleanly= and tidily, but real life is plenty grim, I like to > ferret out a little = humor and warmth here and there. It really depends with which character yo= u do that. Sometimes it doesn't work for me and it truly depends on the ski= ll of the writer to pull that off. Good characterisation & plot is very imp= ortant. But yes, as I was telling a fellow author the other day, it is some= times for example very standard to put Curufin down as utterly evil. Sure, = there is enough in HOME or the Silm that backs it up, but at the same time = there is so much going on with that character that I can see and understand= the why. If you would like to see the world as black & white, but cannot s= ee the grey/beige that is in Tolkien's works as well... It is so much in th= ere, good characters doing evil things. For example: Maeglin, how much did = the events with his father shaped him to become like this, but was he truly= evil? Or as I had lately a super interesting discussion about if H=FArin b= etrayed and led to the downfall of Gondolin or not. Tolkien does a fair bi= t of cardboard villains too you know. Melkor and Sauron and the Ungoliant a= nd so on are pretty clear villains and their better sides not really explor= ed much. At least not enough to capture my interest in the duality of heir = personalities. :) Saying that I do like villains that are not all bad, or = maybe heroes that are not altogether good. In fact I will admit (sorry Dawn= ) that Finrod is a bit too good and shiny for my tastes and do not get me s= tarted on Luthien... Now between the really shiny characters and the real= ly not there are some wonderfully drawn characters. Maedhros, Maglor and Ma= eglin are the main ones that comes to mind when I look for characters that = Tolkien actually wrote with an interesting duality to their personalities. = They did bad things. But they also did good things. I do not write Maeglin = (maybe that should be yet) but Maedhros and Maglor fascinates me because of= those two sides of their personalities. :) Ok I don;t think I am actually= adding anything valuable or interesting to the discussion (procrastinating= cleaning the oven I'm afraid) so I think I will go and do my housework ins= tead now.... Love the discussions, keep them coming :) Uli _________= __________________________________________________ All New Yahoo! Mail =96= Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk= .docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html --0-426380476-1175959661=:30536 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
> In a message dated 4/5/2007 1:10= :34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> eldariel_perdhel@ ... writes:
>= ;
> I agree with you, Dawn. I'm a sucker for happy endings, so I say= to
> myself, "Tolkien wouldn't be that mean. All the good characters=
> *must* see each other again."
> Glad that you liked it. :-)=

Well... what about those who did evil things, but were good at = the
beginning? So no, I don't agree :)
I think I must admit that I am with Rhapsody on this one. = I admit I do not neccessarily see all joining up happily in Valinor in the = end. Partly because I think everyone returned greatly changed, partly becau= se I think some were kept from rebirth long enough to make reunions awkward= and I would not be suprised if a few never actually heeded the call of Man= dos after death. In addition to that there is Maglor... I tend to favour a = Maglor that never do sail west. Then again I like dark endings as well as h= appy ones. In fact if the ending is happy I tend to need more convincing by= the writer to actually accept that it suits the story. :)<= /DIV>

> To tell the truth, I must agree. Although, I have been = rankling
>(when I am not examining my conscience and my writing) for= a couple
< of weeks, because I heard third-hand that someone said s= omething
> about my writing that I interpreted to mean that they thi= nk it is
> too sweet and sappy already (not whining for sympathy her= e--there
> is a healthy basis for the judgment). Oh, well.

Oshun, it just... depends on what you like to write. There is really
n= o shame in wanting to write a romance story that leaves the reader
with = a good feeling all along. I, when I write romance, tend to write
incredi= bly angsty material and let the characters struggle a lot, just
dip them= in deep misery first before they get what they want.
Sometimes I get ye= lled at that, that for gods sake, give the lovers at
least some happines= s ;) I know plenty of good writers who squick at
the moment it becomes d= ark and despairing. I just can't help it.
Sorry. I tend to like writing= tragedy/drama/ angst or explore the
darker sides of romance. Must be my= elves ;)
First thing abo= ut writing is to write teh story you want to tell no matter what everyone e= lse says :) (Take note that this does not encourage large amounts of feedba= ck ;) ). I think, in my opinion, that there is a balance in romance of maki= ng it into something warm but not sappy. I will admit that I am not a fan o= f sappy (apart from certain days of the month) but I do enjoy warm stories.= I have written a few romances (I think) that has aimed to be warm and not = angsty but I do find them generally hard because there is less of a conflic= t to work with in the story. Conflict tends to mean at least a certain degr= ee of angst and despair when I write :-) Of course I tend to find that bala= ncing sweetness with foreshadowing works increadibly well when you write Fe= anorians (Or even better Fingon/Maedhros) ;) Got to love Silmarillion with = all its dark and despairing stories. In fact the romances I really enjoy in= Silmarillion fandom are the ones that occur in between and despite the ra= ther bleak lives and history they all deal with.

<= STRONG> 

Then again I think I am more famous for angst then I am for s= weetness ;) I qoute Rhapsody "Must be my elves" . No one ever believes me w= hen I say that though.


> But there is a sch= ool that posits that fics based on The
> Silmarillion really ought t= o be relentlessly dreary and despairing
> (OK maybe not relentlessly= so--I do tend to exaggerate).

That depends, each writer to the= ir own category, you know, but there
is plenty of room for everything me= thinks.

 

= I would suspect that school of thought comes from the darkness of the actua= l Silmarillion. But even in dark times people tend to fall in love and do g= ood things and have nice things happen. There is a balance I think between = the dark and the light. I do admit though that I am more drawn to the darkn= ess personally but when reading I will read anything well written. :)



> But my pet peeve is still the creation of = cardboard villians where,
> in fact, Tolkien gave real depth and cont= radictions. I do like the
> fact that the characters are not perfect= and that things don't
> resolve cleanly and tidily, but real life i= s plenty grim, I like to
> ferret out a little humor and warmth here = and there.

It really depends with which character you do that. S= ometimes it
doesn't work for me and it truly depends on the skill of the= writer to
pull that off. Good characterisation & plot is very impor= tant. But
yes, as I was telling a fellow author the other day, it is som= etimes
for example very standard to put Curufin down as utterly evil. Su= re,
there is enough in HOME or the Silm that backs it up, but at the sam= e
time there is so much going on with that character that I can see and<= BR>understand the why. If you would like to see the world as black &white, but cannot see the grey/beige that is in Tolkien's works as
wel= l... It is so much in there, good characters doing evil things. For
exam= ple: Maeglin, how much did the events with his father shaped him
to beco= me like this, but was he truly evil? Or as I had lately a super
interest= ing discussion about if H=FArin betrayed and led to the downfall
of Gond= olin or not.

Tol= kien does a fair bit of cardboard villains too you know. Melkor and Sauron = and the Ungoliant and so on are pretty clear villains and their better side= s not really explored much. At least not enough to capture my interest in t= he duality of heir personalities. :)
 
Saying that I do like villains that are not all bad, or maybe heroe= s that are not altogether good. In fact I will admit (sorry Dawn) that Finr= od is a bit too good and shiny for my tastes and do not get me started on L= uthien...
=  
Now between the re= ally shiny characters and the really not there are some wonderfully drawn c= haracters. Maedhros, Maglor and Maeglin are the main ones that comes to min= d when I look for characters that Tolkien actually wrote with an interestin= g duality to their personalities. They did bad things. But they also did go= od things. I do not write Maeglin (maybe that should be yet) but Maedhros a= nd Maglor fascinates me because of those two sides of their personalities. = :)
 
Ok I don;t think I am actu= ally adding anything valuable or interesting to the discussion (procrastina= ting cleaning the oven I'm afraid) so I think I will go and do my housework= instead now....
<= /FONT> 
Love the dis= cussions, keep them coming :)
 
Uli

 

= The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your em= ail address from your Internet provider. --0-426380476-1175959661=:30536-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 908 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60593 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2007 16:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2007 16:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2007 16:33:45 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r8.1.) id r.cc7.ea6a17f (58550) for ; Sat, 7 Apr 2007 12:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 12:33:31 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1175963611" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] (unknown) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=nO9RBi5zZqNKMY4o5tuMuN7A1ggUtacNCr_DKmvnrXbLJa9FSbV_ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1175963611 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/7/2007 10:40:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, ford_of_bruinen@yahoo.co.uk writes: between and despite the rather bleak lives and history they all deal with. That is what makes the lightness interesting and not just dull. Especially when writing about the Feanorians, one never needs to worry about too light, because every little happy moment brings to mind the "doom"! The trick is for that sense of impending tragedy not to become routine and monotonous. I like to think that I do not write "sap" although it is a bit on the happy side in general. I also tend to use humor instead of angst to reflect on the imperfections and the rotten stuff of life. The Silmarillion does have a lot of dark--but the light it has is often completely unexpected and overshadows everything around it (for a small example: Fingon rescuing Maedhros)--startlingly bright. It seems like the Noldor get the exceptional highs and the lows. No where is this more extreme but in regard to the Feanorians. On symbolism I get all excited about the uses of darkness and light in The Silmarillion. Terms like: "light in their eyes" and the light of the lamps, light of the Trees and last but not least the light of the Silmarils. Who did Morgoth hate the most? Feanor because of his ability to reproduce the light. Also, it was always the Noldor who were Morgoth's greatest enemy. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1175963611 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 4/7/2007 10:40:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, ford_of_bruinen@yahoo.= co.uk writes:
between and despite the rather bleak lives and history t= hey all deal with.
That is what = makes the lightness interesting and not just dull. Especially when wr= iting about the Feanorians, one never needs to worry about too light, beca= use every little happy moment brings to mind the "doom"! The trick is for = that sense of impending tragedy not to become routine and monotonous. = I like to think that I do not write "sap" although it is a bit on the happ= y side in general. I also tend to use humor instead of angst to reflect on= the imperfections and the rotten stuff of life. The Silmarillion does hav= e a lot of dark--but the light it has is often completely unexpected and o= vershadows everything around it (for a small example: Fingon rescuing Mae= dhros)--startlingly bright. It seems like the Noldor get the exceptional h= ighs and the lows. No where is this more extreme but in regard to the Fean= orians. On symbolism I get all excited about the uses of darkness and light= in The Silmarillion. Terms like: "light in their eyes" and the light= of the lamps, light of the Trees and last but not least the light of the = Silmarils. Who did Morgoth hate the most? Feanor because of his abili= ty to reproduce the light. Also, it was always the Noldor who were Morgoth= 's greatest enemy.



See= what's free at = AOL.com.
-------------------------------1175963611-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 909 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88579 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2007 08:19:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2007 08:19:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.246) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2007 08:19:56 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n28.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2007 08:17:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2007 08:17:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2007 08:17:39 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 08:17:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: (unknown) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=knXldTRvj1o5taW4Qv1ft8wan5fsog8FnHsvGfEXXV9iyAnuW69IlKE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > In a message dated 4/7/2007 10:40:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, > fo= rd_of_bruinen@... writes: > > between and despite the rather bleak lives = and history they all deal with. > > > That is what makes the lightness in= teresting and not just dull. > Especially when writing about the Feanoria= ns, one never needs to > worry about too light, because every little happ= y moment brings to > mind the "doom"! The trick is for that sense of impe= nding tragedy > not to become routine and monotonous. I like to think tha= t I do not > write "sap" although it is a bit on the happy side in general.= I > also tend to use humor instead of angst to reflect on the > imperfec= tions and the rotten stuff of life. The Silmarillion does > have a lot of = dark--but the light it has is often completely > unexpected and overshadow= s everything around it (for a small > example: Fingon rescuing Maedhros)-= -startlingly bright. It seems > like the Noldor get the exceptional highs= and the lows. No > where is this more extreme but in regard to the Feano= rians. On > symbolism I get all excited about the uses of darkness and lig= ht in > The Silmarillion. Terms like: "light in their eyes" and the light = of > the lamps, light of the Trees and last but not least the light of > = the Silmarils. Who did Morgoth hate the most? Feanor because of his > abil= ity to reproduce the light. Also, it was always the Noldor who > were Mor= goth's greatest enemy. And here I sit thinking how much I love to dip my = elves in sensual sins... Because basically, as the Professor said himself: = The letters of Tolkien: 131 To Milton Waldman "The sons of Feanor take a = terrible and blasphemous oath of enmity and vengeance against all or any, e= ven of the gods, who dares to claim any part or right in the Silmarilli. Th= ey pervert the greater pan of their kindred, who rebel against the gods, an= d depart from paradise, and go to make hopeless war upon the Enemy. The fir= st fruit of their fall is war in Paradise, the slaying of Elves by Elves, a= nd this and their evil oath dogs all their later heroism, generating treach= eries and undoing all victories. and As such the story is (I think a beau= tiful and powerful) heroic-fairy-romance, receivable in itself with only a = very general vague knowledge of the background. But it is also a fundamenta= l link in the cycle, deprived of its full significance out of its place the= rein. For the capture of the Silmaril, a supreme victory, leads to disaster= . The oath of the sons of Feanor becomes operative, and lust for the Silmar= il brings all the kingdoms of the Elves to ruin." With this I just find i= t very very hard to weave in humour, light fleeted romance whenever I end u= p writing either Maglor, Celegorm or Curufin. Whatever they will lay their = hands on or will claim: it will bring them doom. You might have more luck w= ith non-Feanorians to bring in the light-heartedness and by all means do no= t let them come to close in a relationship, since whomever they form ties w= ith: it will never end well. Imho of course. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 910 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53273 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2007 12:21:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2007 12:21:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2007 12:21:37 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r8.1.) id r.cd9.ec067ca (30739) for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 08:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 08:07:57 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1176120477" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: (unknown) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ZJ2SKjWd-izc3tv5XGG4exN3ZUvgb_-RUsrZ_NkpJvAGhhNpzsc- X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1176120477 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/9/2007 3:21:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes: With this I just find it very very hard to weave in humour, light fleeted romance whenever I end up writing either Maglor, Celegorm or Curufin. Whatever they will lay their hands on or will claim: it will bring them doom. You might have more luck with non-Feanorians to bring in the light-heartedness and by all means do not let them come to close in a relationship, since whomever they form ties with: it will never end well. Imho of course. I guess the older the I get the more cynical I get. Nothing is ever pure tragedy. They wouldn't have been able to tie their shoes, much less wage war and build kingdoms, if it was all that unrelievedly hideous and horrible every minute of every day for hundreds of years, that in no way means their can avoid the final frustration of their quest and fulfillment of their doom. I am going to have to accept the fact that you are going to hate what I write. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1176120477 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 4/9/2007 3:21:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com wr= ites:
With this I just find it very ver= y hard to weave in humour, light
fleeted romance whenever I end up wr= iting either Maglor, Celegorm or
Curufin. Whatever they will lay thei= r hands on or will claim: it will
bring them doom. You might have mor= e luck with non-Feanorians to bring
in the light-heartedness and by a= ll means do not let them come to
close in a relationship, since whome= ver they form ties with: it will
never end well. Imho of course.
<= BR>
I guess the older the I get = the more cynical I get. Nothing is ever pure tragedy. They wouldn't have b= een able to tie their shoes, much less wage war and build kingdoms, if it = was all that unrelievedly hideous and horrible every minute of every day f= or hundreds of years, that in no way means their can avoid the final frust= ration of their quest and fulfillment of their doom. I am going to have to= accept the fact that you are going to hate what I write.

=

See what's free at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1176120477-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 911 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72897 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2007 14:57:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2007 14:57:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.248) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2007 14:57:01 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n28.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2007 14:56:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2007 14:56:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2007 14:56:26 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:56:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: (unknown) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=hkOIvDxx3L0PxbENdOwVtqP5s09aIyPYEqppzF-JmCs7KIMSOnRWWxQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > In a message dated 4/9/2007 3:21:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, > rha= psody74@... writes: > >> With this I just find it very very hard to weave= in humour, light >> fleeted romance whenever I end up writing either Magl= or, Celegorm >> or Curufin. Whatever they will lay their hands on or will= claim: >> it will bring them doom. You might have more luck with >> non= -Feanorians to bring in the light-heartedness and by all means >> do not = let them come to close in a relationship, since whomever >> they form tie= s with: it will never end well. Imho of course. > > > I guess the older = the I get the more cynical I get. Nothing is ever > pure tragedy. They wou= ldn't have been able to tie their shoes, much > less wage war and build ki= ngdoms, if it was all that unrelievedly > hideous and horrible every minut= e of every day for hundreds of > years, that in no way means their can avo= id the final frustration of > their quest and fulfillment of their doom. I = am going to have to > accept the fact that you are going to hate what I = write. Nah :) I read about anything, before I 'hate' a story featuring a F= eanorian, girl, you really have to go far. Also, I don't think I am a perso= n who would say she hate anything another person wrote with dedication, it'= s a word to strong for an activity that is for me attached to the love of w= riting. :) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 912 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12090 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2007 15:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2007 15:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2007 15:13:20 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r8.1.) id r.c1e.13caad73 (30739) for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 11:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 11:10:12 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1176131412" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: (unknown) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=N1rgCsy3D59apt_kmF4IeWUc4OmnCAtlnYeCkWKAc68La-CbREuF X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1176131412 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess I could think of better ways of saying that you will not be satisfied with what I will write about the Feanorians than the word "hate." You said: "You might have more luck with non-Feanorians to bring in the light-heartedness and by all means do not let them come to close in a relationship, since whomever they form ties with: it will never end well." My point is not to write "light-heartedness" per se. My desire is to write about the Feanorians in a way that shows further complexties and contradictions than might be found in the more typical sad and hopeless tales about them. That I like to include humor and warmth in everything and do not like unrelieved darkness should not prevent me from being able to chose this as a subject matter. You basically said "find something else to write about." I just wanted to make the point strongly that this IS what I want to write about. (I know you are defend your opinions strongly, Rhapsody, and do not resent that. It is one of things I appreciate about you.) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1176131412 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I guess I could t= hink of better ways of saying that you will not be satisfied with what I w= ill write about the Feanorians than the word "hate."
 
You said: "You might have more luck with non-Feanorians to br= ing in the light-heartedness and by all means do not let them come to clos= e in a relationship, since whomever they form ties with: it will neve= r end well." My point is not to write "light-heartedness" per se. My desir= e is to write about the Feanorians in a way that shows further comple= xties and contradictions than might be found in the more typical sad and&n= bsp;hopeless tales about them. That I like to include humor and warmth in = everything and do not like unrelieved darkness should not prevent me from = being able to chose this as a subject matter. You basically said "find som= ething else to write about." I just wanted to make the point strongly that= this IS what I want to write about. (I know you are defend your opinions = strongly, Rhapsody, and do not resent that. It is one of things I apprecia= te about you.)



See what'= s free at AOL.c= om.
-------------------------------1176131412-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 913 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42965 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 05:37:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Apr 2007 05:37:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 05:37:22 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2007 05:37:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2007 05:37:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2007 05:37:21 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:37:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (and canon) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=tRaVaECZj4VkpdX-nYLlnZDbCi0ox0Ph6a9IvzSVXAFQjLr6F2qkog X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser I love both those pictures by Kasiopia (is there anyone who doesn't know = what we're talking about? The links are here: http://tolkien.com.pl/kasio= pea/ang/strony/And%20Maglor%20took%20pity% 20upon%20them.htm http://tolkie= n.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/strony/Elros-and-Elrond-were- taken.htm ) I would n= ot mind reading a story where they are not twins, but timeline-wise, it re= ally doesn't work out. Tolkien ran into a bit of a problem with the chron= ology when he had child-Elwing and child- Earendil flee to the Havens...and= the Feanoreans knew about it. So, what, they just sat on their hands unt= il the kids grew up? Yes. That's why we get that wonderful line about Ma= edhros foreswearing his Oath (for a time)...he ignores the Havens for 15-2= 0 years before he demands the Silmaril and attacks it. Long enough for El= wing and Earendil to grow up, get married and have baby Elrond....and then= Earendil promptly leaves for his interminably long sea voyage. There si= mply isn't time for another pregnancy and birth. In humans, you can have = "Irish twins" - siblings born less than a year apart. My grandmother and = her brother were only 10 months apart, for instance. And I know a brother= and sister who were born exactly one year apart, but one day off, so they= don't have the same birthday, at least. So, it could be something like t= hat, but you have to take into account that elvish gestation period is one= *full* year, and there are only about 2 years between their marriage and = him leaving his sons behind. Seperate pregnancies stretches credulity mor= e than "twins run in the family" does, imo, but of course half-elves may = behave just like humans in this case. That being said, the time line at = the end of the First Age was rather vague, and it could be altered wholesa= le to accomodate a story without actually departing from "canon" - there s= imply *is* no canon for that time period, because, annoyingly, Tolkien nev= er wrote those stories! But I do not find it surprising that the referenc= es to Elrond and Elros being twins appears in the chronology, where it is= most necessary. Thematically, it could work either way. Elrond existed = as a character first. His brother Elros only emerged with the introductio= n of Numenor and the Second Age. So making him the "younger" brother woul= d make sense from that perspective! And as for canon - I will forgive depa= rtures from it fairly easily if a) the author knows it is AU, or potential= ly AU and b) it serves a purpose in the story. For instance, in the story= , "Chains of Steel and Shadow" http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter= .cfm?stid=3D1367 the author has Morgoth assume a form other than that of th= e Dark Lord of Angband....while Maedhros is chained to Thangorodrim. So, = that conflicts with what Tolkien told us. The Silm. says that Morgoth to= ok on his Dark Lord form before the destruction of the Trees, and was neve= r able to change it afterwards. But this particular story would be *much*= weaker if Morgoth did not have this ability, and it certainly serves a pu= rpose in the story. It works. (If you check out the story, heed the warn= ings...it is every bit as disturbing as the author claims). You could eve= n explain it away by saying that the people who wrote down the history of = the Silmarillion got some details wrong, because they simply weren't awar= e of certain things. Hey, it happens! In the case of Elwing's brothers = - making them twins or not twins can be canon :). Just depends which vers= ion you go with. Someone else did the research, but here you go: "JRRT g= ave us no less than four versions of the causes of the death of these char= acters, Dior's sons and Elwing's brothers. In addition, their names change= d twice along the way, and they started out not being twins, became twins,= and then weren't twins again! In The Earliest Annals of Beleriand (HoME 4= ), they seem to have been explicitly killed: 'The young sons of Dior, Elbo= ron and Elbereth, were slain by the evil men of Maidros' host...,' but '..= .Maedhros bewailed the foul deed...' In The Later Annals of Beleriand (Ho= ME 5) they starve to death: 'The young sons of Dior, Elboron and Elbereth,= were taken captive by the evil men of Maidros' following, and they were l= eft to starve in the woods; but Maidros lamented the cruel deed, and sough= t unavailingly for them.' In The Tale of Years (HoME 11), their names hav= e changed, it's a different brother's servants who are responsible, but th= ey're still starving: 'The cruel servants of Celegorm seize Dior's sons (E= lrun and Eldun) and leave them to starve in the forest. (Maidros repentin= g seeks unavailingly for the children of Dior.)' In Note 14, of Chapter 14= of the Quenta (HoME 4) they are called Eld=FBn and Elr=FBn, and they were= slain. In The Problem of Ros (HoME 12) the most recent of Tolkien's wri= tings to mention these two, their names had changed yet again, and they ap= pear to have been murdered, but not by servants: 'Elured and Elurin, befor= e they came to manhood, were both slain by the sons of Feanor....' In the= Silmarillion itself, Christopher Tolkien chose the latest names his fathe= r had devised, the responsibility of Celegorm's servants, starvation rathe= r than murder, and the repentance of Maedhros: '...and the cruel servants = of Celegorm seized his young sons and left them to starve in the forest. O= f this Maedhros indeed repented, and sought for them long in the woods of = Doriath; but his search was unavailing, and of the fate of Elur=E9d and El= ur=EDn no tale tells.'" And explicitly discussing whether or not they wer= e twins: "From the Genealogies, HoME V (written in the 1930's) they are c= learly not twins: 'Elboron son of Dior born 192; Elbereth his brother born = 195 (they were thus fourteen and eleven years old at their deaths...' Fro= m The Wanderings of Hurin, HoME XI (written in the 1950's) there's no doub= t that they are twins: '500. Birth of the twin sons of Dior, Elrun and Eldu= n' The Problem of Ros, HoME XII (written in the late 1960's): 'He gave to = his elder son the name Elured, that is said to have the same significance,= but ended in the Beorian word reda "heir"; to his second son he gave the = name Elurin, but his daughter the name Elwing...' Christopher Tolkien com= ments in the notes to this section: '[These names Elured and Elurin replace= Eldun and Elrun (originally Elboron and Elbereth); and the story that Dio= r's sons were twins had been abandoned...' The words elder son and second= son still allow the possibility of twins, but Christopher Tolkien didn't = think so and did not make them out to be twins in the published Silmarilli= on. " ~* research done by scirocco on TORc *~ As you can see, the version= in the published Silmarillion takes most heavily from the Tale of Years (= where they are twins), but that doesn't mean that that is the *only* story= Tolkien considered (or the one CJRT bought!) So, go with whatever works,= and don't be too picky if another author chooses differently... ~ MithLu= in PS - My Elros and Elrond are twins, as are my Elured and Elurin. J= ust too durn convenient. I also have Amrod and Amras die together at the = Havens, because the burning-alive-on-the-ship thing squicks me out. But I= enjoy stories that don't follow these scenarios, too. --- In Silmarill= ionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "merrykbookworm" wrote: = > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Calenlass Greenleaf >= wrote: > > > > I noticed Kasiopia's pic. I always thou= ght of Elrond and Elros as > twins, from the first time I read about them i= n the Sil. > > ~Calenlass > > I usually err on the non-twin side...it seem= s more natural to me, and > I love the idea of Elrond being the older more= responsible firstborn > (heh, isn't 'responsible' a given with firstborns= ?), with Elros as the > younger one who was infatuated with Men and the pa= ssion they have for > life. I was even more convinced after reading a > Ma= glor-cares-for-Elrond-and-Elros fic, and Elrond seemed so much in > charact= er as an older brother. > > ~MerryK > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 914 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65285 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 08:53:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Apr 2007 08:53:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.216) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 08:53:43 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n33.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2007 08:52:31 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2007 08:52:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2007 08:52:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:52:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (and canon) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=RY8aOmlp5711Q8FTun0ueG2UeMm7ti8ivXCJ1Cp3B_sMFtGmmhVIexQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "marielprosser" wrote: > So, it could be something like that, but you have to ta= ke > into account that elvish gestation period is one *full* year, and > = there are only about 2 years between their marriage and him leaving > his = sons behind. Seperate pregnancies stretches credulity more > than "twins = run in the family" does, imo, but of course half-elves > may behave just l= ike humans in this case. You are forgetting here that both Earendil and = Elwing are mortal and do not conceive children how elves would do. Before E= arendil sailed to Valinor, every elf-man union would result in children tha= t are mortal and are considered to be counted under the race of men. Both r= eached their majority at the age of 25, married at that age where as the el= ves were still to be considered teens or children. So yeah... 9 months it = is, give or take. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 915 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59770 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2007 20:10:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2007 20:10:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53008.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.38) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2007 20:10:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 38315 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2007 20:10:14 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: uEYHe.gVM1l9LNQPUSQ5Poty0YLKFsyQdHBJ6G9kBNhCalZWzgtnybVMcdrE5aGc_7HyNY8RusEz4A.Jy2zgFNTncTel5_PXovyq4Y0K9XE.mrgfsWdgUs4HEpRBgQ-- Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53008.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:10:13 BST Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:10:13 +0100 (BST) To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com, henneth_annun@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2128534458-1176581413=:36880" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <947565.36880.qm@web53008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Question... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=IqdDVrhkujRCIrh_hxYCJDqx1x-BLPZWFKlmCLcqBjVsgNxOW9Cc --0-2128534458-1176581413=:36880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I remember hearing that Maglor was married, but that his wife stayed behind in Valinor. Does anyone happen to know her name? Cel Helyanwe --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Tryit now. --0-2128534458-1176581413=:36880 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I remember hearing that Maglor was married, but that his wife stayed behind in Valinor.  Does anyone happen to know her name?

Cel Helyanwe

Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. --0-2128534458-1176581413=:36880-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 916 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11823 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2007 21:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2007 21:01:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.32) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2007 21:01:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 96529 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2007 21:01:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Y2.SScEVM1kOSR22hiz389.FaqlVWBkpyv.siotJc2xOiVPU_tRIQXeYBF_TvreC_ZLimbPRekvqDph32P5XOTQbOlxkgssSKmeuhmUr0KqBJ.YeKCywb5h9YicoFttEq5KT5m0Wk7VqeP4- Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 22:01:05 BST Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 22:01:05 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="0-1483402994-1176584465=:90324" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <119848.90324.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=zt8vEeSqY4_IupBvuFUt7OtJOPp9MHq0slmUyGzJ6nBJrHO1BYez --0-1483402994-1176584465=:90324 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1181003063-1176584465=:90324" --0-1181003063-1176584465=:90324 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Say... Would you mind sending me a larger copy of this pic? Cel Helyanwe heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: G.A. and I decided for our own artistic reasons that we wanted Elrond and Elros to be twins. The symmetry is just too pleasing--tantilizing and tragic--the two parts of one self (Eldar and Edain, the whole mess). If they are not they should have been; Tolkien missed real poetry there if he intended them to be simply brothers. Obviously others did not feel the same way as I do about it.... Gorgeous illustration (Kasiopea). She clearly does not think they are the same age: --------------------------------- See what's free at AOL.com. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Tryit now. --0-1181003063-1176584465=:90324 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Say...  Would you mind sending me a larger copy of this pic?

Cel Helyanwe

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
G.A. and I decided for our own artistic reasons that we wanted Elrond and Elros to be twins. The symmetry is just too pleasing--tantilizing and tragic--the two parts of one self (Eldar and Edain, the whole mess). If they are not they should have been; Tolkien missed real poetry there if he intended them to be simply brothers. Obviously others did not feel the same way as I do about it....
 
Gorgeous illustration (Kasiopea). She clearly does not think they are the same age:
 
 



See what's free at AOL.com.

Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. --0-1181003063-1176584465=:90324-- --0-1483402994-1176584465=:90324-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 917 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4986 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2007 23:12:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2007 23:12:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web58301.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.154) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2007 23:12:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 60552 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2007 23:12:39 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: CTXFNsUVM1lilWP9sRIyDlWlc6h09tsl5NmCbpCK Received: from [71.235.106.34] by web58301.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:12:38 PDT Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:12:38 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <119848.90324.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="0-1305614116-1176592358=:60384" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <935145.60384.qm@web58301.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Niki S." Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=kUHs-Uq_uuynaVPOPJ2HvMFZfzIOxiJOsmHRWgyLnpP0ZIf5-A X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes --0-1305614116-1176592358=:60384 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1720594047-1176592358=:60384" --0-1720594047-1176592358=:60384 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You can find that pic (and more of her work) here: http://tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/tolkien1.htm :) Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: Say... Would you mind sending me a larger copy of this pic? Cel Helyanwe heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: G.A. and I decided for our own artistic reasons that we wanted Elrond and Elros to be twins. The symmetry is just too pleasing--tantilizing and tragic--the two parts of one self (Eldar and Edain, the whole mess). If they are not they should have been; Tolkien missed real poetry there if he intended them to be simply brothers. Obviously others did not feel the same way as I do about it.... Gorgeous illustration (Kasiopea). She clearly does not think they are the same age: --------------------------------- See what's free at AOL.com. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-1720594047-1176592358=:60384 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You can find that pic (and more of her work) here:

http://tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/tolkien1.htm

:)

Celebrian Helyanwe wrote:
Say...  Would you mind sending me a larger copy of this pic?

Cel Helyanwe

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
G.A. and I decided for our own artistic reasons that we wanted Elrond and Elros to be twins. The symmetry is just too pleasing--tantilizing and tragic--the two parts of one self (Eldar and Edain, the whole mess). If they are not they should have been; Tolkien missed real poetry there if he intended them to be simply brothers. Obviously others did not feel the same way as I do about it....
 
Gorgeous illustration (Kasiopea). She clearly does not think they are the same age:
 
 



See what's free at AOL.com.

Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now.

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-1720594047-1176592358=:60384-- --0-1305614116-1176592358=:60384-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 918 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91428 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2007 23:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2007 23:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2007 23:13:38 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A49558004 for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 01:13:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 01:13:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 01:13:41 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <55858822.20070415011341@tlen.pl> To: Celebrian Helyanwe In-Reply-To: <119848.90324.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <119848.90324.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=AXZXxkH08OD-AiyfVVCplKFvfmQ3nH3bZaLRR47y1gwd79mVVQU X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Celebrian, CH> Say...� Would you mind sending me a larger copy of this pic? Here: http://www.tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/tolkien1.htm Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 919 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72914 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2007 23:15:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2007 23:15:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53001.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.31) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2007 23:15:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 47125 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2007 23:14:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Bzd7ZaUVM1knkvBW4036wuoNyt8KfKH5Y8jT1uvSeexM5vyWFol2tZseJZyyyA6WlNPz07b5UJH2G6YPRhWJB24_yhRvnHQb4lnXzFRDlGOwHdZuZ_3kLXi0ecO3ZQ-- Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53001.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:14:56 BST Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:14:56 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <935145.60384.qm@web58301.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="0-423248901-1176592496=:47122" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <702934.47122.qm@web53001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=T8UaPmrIOPItgpwjyA4Jb-eCBj9VSjoM2vVmI3kz_u98_rTBSj6N --0-423248901-1176592496=:47122 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1476413461-1176592496=:47122" --0-1476413461-1176592496=:47122 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the link! Cel Helyanwe "Niki S." wrote: You can find that pic (and more of her work) here: http://tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/tolkien1.htm :) Visit Your Group SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing workshop Creative writing help Creative writing course Creative writing software Creative writing school Yahoo! Movies Up for a movie? Check out showtimes and buy tickets Yahoo! News Music News Get the latest music news now Yahoo! TV Sign up for alerts Stay tuned in for The Apprentice. . --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. --0-1476413461-1176592496=:47122 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the link!

Cel Helyanwe

"Niki S." wrote:
You can find that pic (and more of her work) here:

http://tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/tolkien1.htm

:)
.


Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. --0-1476413461-1176592496=:47122-- --0-423248901-1176592496=:47122-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 920 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57649 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2007 23:15:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2007 23:15:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53012.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.42) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2007 23:15:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 70305 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2007 23:15:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ttGbJmQVM1l3KiPLdSKA8uxR0cR3WatFoHomBEeMYw3.DLaPkn26NRDfJwzU52F_mFVa9P_276fiZKZeKzWWsZbcQA3SAiwpSKLWL5KUrUQ00rZyTZA- Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53012.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:15:16 BST Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:15:16 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <55858822.20070415011341@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-948456204-1176592516=:68074" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <731124.68074.qm@web53012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=Zd-vyevN1PK_-uvi1G0yKAi05Z3MryyVg2K7XoyA29SCleUpLD4t --0-948456204-1176592516=:68074 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, Sirielle! Cel Helyanwe Sirielle wrote: Ai Celebrian, CH> Say... Would you mind sending me a larger copy of this pic? Here: http://www.tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/tolkien1.htm Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Tryit now. --0-948456204-1176592516=:68074 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, Sirielle!

Cel Helyanwe

Sirielle wrote:
Ai Celebrian,

CH> Say...  Would you mind sending me a larger copy of this pic?

Here: http://www.tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/tolkien1.htm

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.deviantart.com/


Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. --0-948456204-1176592516=:68074-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 921 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80080 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2007 23:17:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2007 23:17:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2007 23:17:29 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B09C58016 for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 01:17:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 01:17:05 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 01:17:10 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <153157398.20070415011710@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <119848.90324.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <119848.90324.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=BpbDmsRDRjJb_9MREXDiESUAB3Okrq25DX50P8uxefbvyVy2-zw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, CH> heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: CH> Gorgeous illustration (Kasiopea). She clearly does not think they are the same age: Or had other reasons to make them looking different ;) I don't know, but art should not be guide. I myself believe they were twins not just brothers. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 922 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69418 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2007 23:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2007 23:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53012.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.42) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2007 23:30:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 74777 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2007 23:30:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: abVmlE4VM1mU98XBBwxseal5TJb5_i2PApQOr_h7furjcMpdyG7R0Kgk3G0f5.HaLZb9SYVD45qWKW8W6l3nzM6Wqk7SeJSyH1d5p1b4E8P2gWMSuxYczCuPdS6R9UI7kUBejKBUA_O0pO8- Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53012.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:30:01 BST Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:30:01 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <153157398.20070415011710@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-228872257-1176593401=:74541" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <381438.74541.qm@web53012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elrond & Elros (was SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Ev... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=unYq3TFQRKC_453DTOku2xtaKKUDSt6jvwhmPyYjGnrWah6AUp73 --0-228872257-1176593401=:74541 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've always thought of them as twins, but I've also seen fics where they weren't that worked quite well. I'll go for either. Cel Helyanwe Sirielle wrote: Ai Oshun, Or had other reasons to make them looking different ;) I don't know, but art should not be guide. I myself believe they were twins not just brothers. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Tryit now. --0-228872257-1176593401=:74541 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've always thought of them as twins, but I've also seen fics where they weren't that worked quite well.  I'll go for either.

Cel Helyanwe

Sirielle wrote:
Ai Oshun,

Or had other reasons to make them looking different ;) I don't know,
but art should not be guide.

I myself believe they were twins not just brothers.

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.deviantart.com/


Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. --0-228872257-1176593401=:74541-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 923 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18024 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2007 06:49:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2007 06:49:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2007 06:49:05 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2007 06:49:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2007 06:49:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2007 06:49:05 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 06:49:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <947565.36880.qm@web53008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Question... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=xhzz9vYuK9pFSssCS0uqF6uYF8NWPAoYIoIfYgo7WznZEPe3AQ8uJxk X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: > > I remember hearing that Maglor was married, but that= his wife stayed > behind in Valinor. Does anyone happen to know her name= ? Tolkien never mentioned where Maglor married and what his wife's name wa= s. Only of Curufin's wife it is known that she stayed behind in Valinor (a= lso no name known). Maglor could have found his wife in Beleriand as well a= nd married there. The same applies to Caranthir. So yeps :) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 924 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59654 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2007 13:44:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2007 13:44:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2007 13:44:07 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12.go2.pl [193.17.41.142]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 722B323006C for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:30:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EBB13E8073 for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:20:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:20:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:20:30 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1988771799.20070415152030@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <947565.36880.qm@web53008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=zAU_lejJqz1O_Hxo-C9vnHvXpz4847FTankDQEuvdkjPCYVxf4g X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, r> Tolkien never mentioned where Maglor married and what his wife's name was. r> Only of Curufin's wife it is known that she stayed behind in Valinor r> (also no name known). Maglor could have found his wife in Beleriand as r> well and married there. The same applies to Caranthir. Right in time, we're discussing it at Hobbiton, I just stole your info to post there. Here's the list of known names we gathered so far (some very obvious, but it might be useful). [I focused on elves only, though they look for Men's wives, too.] If you know any name we've skipped, please name her (the best with info where you've found it): Aegnor + Andreth (if you belive they were really in love, not the whole love was just Finrod's tale to Andreth glorifying his brother's affection, while the boy just run away from the girl) Angrod + Eldal�t� (Edhellos) - is that really spelled with "�"? Aragorn + Arwen Beren + L�thien Celeborn + Galadriel Dior + Nimloth E�rendil+ Elwing Elrond + Celebr�an Elw� Singollo (Elu Thingol) + Melian E�l + Aredhel F�anor + Nerdanel Finarfin + E�rwen Fingolfin + Anair� Finrod + Amari� (I guess they finally married after his come back) Finw� + Miriel Serinde + Indis Tuor + Idril Turgon + Elenw� "Lonely" husbands: Aranw� + Caranthir + (unknown, confirmed) Curufin + (unknown, confirmed) Fingon + (if you follow the Silmarillion, not HoME) Ingw� + Ithilbor + Lenw� + Mahtan + Maglor + (unknown, confirmed) Olw� + Orodreth + (Sindarin lady from the North) Oropher + Thranduil + Anyone else of elves known from name was married? Denethor, son of Lenw�? Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 925 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31514 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2007 20:45:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2007 20:45:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.35) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2007 20:45:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 4058 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2007 20:45:05 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: GDrnm8sVM1lALm77nhH4XCX8178ZUVGPoLvc9P0dc5RPVVdkMSwnayp5lqqeE092QEyI.bJhw3ZSbNZ.6Rc7qj.yEATnOdRHXNPM2H7V3qrb30KU6qEyWCnJFoQILSQmGHIuOUVPmL5yU.U- Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:45:05 BST Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:45:05 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1046209025-1176669905=:3150" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <929160.3150.qm@web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=zEPkPtUOIRF-WjnZ5nBgmIzkufhciteIBiu7RbXkM25zhatcwCMb --0-1046209025-1176669905=:3150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *sigh* Tolkien and his not-giving-needed information... Tsk, tsk. ;-P Well, for my purposes, I need her to stay behind. But other than that, I guess I'll just have to make it up. :-) Thanks! Cel Helyanwe rhapsody_the_bard wrote: Tolkien never mentioned where Maglor married and what his wife's name was. Only of Curufin's wife it is known that she stayed behind in Valinor (also no name known). Maglor could have found his wife in Beleriand as well and married there. The same applies to Caranthir. So yeps :) Rhapsody --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. --0-1046209025-1176669905=:3150 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *sigh* Tolkien and his not-giving-needed information...  Tsk, tsk. ;-P Well, for my purposes, I need her to stay behind.  But other than that, I guess I'll just have to make it up. :-)

Thanks!

Cel Helyanwe

rhapsody_the_bard wrote:
Tolkien never mentioned where Maglor married and what his wife's name was.

Only of Curufin's wife it is known that she stayed behind in Valinor
(also no name known). Maglor could have found his wife in Beleriand as
well and married there. The same applies to Caranthir.

So yeps :)

Rhapsody


Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. --0-1046209025-1176669905=:3150-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 926 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82350 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2007 21:25:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2007 21:25:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2007 21:25:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2007 21:23:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2007 21:23:27 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:23:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1988771799.20070415152030@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=K7hHogaaZ8pgJZ-E5RxIgMUIQMyMLzg1xV4mINLz45kWIvdqAwMlvww X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai Rhapsody, > > r> Tolkien never mentioned where Maglor married= and what his wife's name was. > > r> Only of Curufin's wife it is known= that she stayed behind in Valinor > r> (also no name known). Maglor could= have found his wife in Beleriand as > r> well and married there. The same= applies to Caranthir. > > Right in time, we're discussing it at Hobbiton= , I just stole your > info to post there. Here's the list of known names w= e gathered so > far (some very obvious, but it might be useful). Oh!!!! {= {{{hugs}}}} > [I focused on elves only, though they look for Men's wives, = too.] If > you know any name we've skipped, please name her (the best with = info > where you've found it): > > Aegnor + Andreth (if you belive they we= re really in love, not the > whole love was just Finrod's tale to Andreth g= lorifying his > brother's affection, while the boy just run away from the = girl) Well in Morhoth's Ring it is clearly stated that though Aegnor loved= Andreth, he never acted upon it. That's why Finrod tries to console Andret= h... Also, iuf you focus on elves alone, what are these mortal characters = doing on the list Aragorn + Arwen =3D very mortal Beren + L=FAthien =3D ve= ry mortal E=E4rendil+ Elwing =3D very mortal, only chose later for elvenkin= d, even though E=E4rendil still felt connected to men. and Dior + Nimloth= =3D mortal and elf pair, children coming from this are mortal Tuor + Idril= =3D mortal and elf pair, children coming from this are mortal if you do w= ant to include those marriages: Mithrellas + Imrazhor (I mean, we can't mi= ss the founding parents of the house of Dol Amroth) Another elf couple you= missed: Amroth + Nimrodel > "Lonely" husbands: > > Aranw=EB + >= Caranthir + (unknown, confirmed) > Curufin + (unknown, confirmed) > Fi= ngon + (if you follow the Silmarillion, not HoME) Meril was a suggestion..= . it was somewhere in HOME that Celebrimbor was quite fond of Fingon and hi= s wife (Meril was suggested, but abandoned) and that he thought that Gil-ga= lad and Meril would have travelled to the isle of Balar... HOME 12 or HOME = 10 I think. I recently read that... Hehehehe and what to do with Maedhros.= . to cite Tolkien: who appeared to be unwed? ;) A great list though! I lik= e it! > Anyone else of elves known from name was married? Denethor, son o= f > Lenw=EB? I have no idea. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 927 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43055 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2007 22:53:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2007 22:53:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2007 22:53:07 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2.go2.pl [193.17.41.42]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id D105D230027 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 00:40:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC72274807B for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 00:37:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 00:37:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 00:37:44 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <154754931.20070416003744@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <1988771799.20070415152030@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=0Lxq6axRQGQpw-Q0ctU4Xjd9D5yLJ_CoyRwpFUMTJjk21YCKntk X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle r> Well in Morhoth's Ring it is clearly stated that though Aegnor loved r> Andreth, he never acted upon it. That's why Finrod tries to console r> Andreth... A lot of people interpret this as he escaped for couldn't be with her on Arda Marred, but they will be together on Arda Healed, when both kinds destinys will be closer and a marriage of elf and human will not be that dramatic. I am not so sure if that's truth, but I don't like the idea of human/elf at all. r> Also, iuf you focus on elves alone, what are these mortal characters r> doing on the list Oh no, we're not going deep into if some elves / half elves were mortal or not, it's just characters list to find out missing names. Besides these characters mostly have chosen to be mortal life after marriage (though "only L�thien died in real" or what was that line from the Silmarillion, so we can't be sure if anyone else died in a typically mortal way). r> Dior + Nimloth = mortal and elf pair, children coming from this are mortal I agree that being mortal is a "default setting" for a half elf, but I believe also that every half elf had a choice - on Arda or in Mandos, no matter if their souls went there before or after E�rendil's journey. Events on Arda and in Mandos are not in the same time for me, as I see Mandos being a timeless place, where a souls takes as much time as is necessary for being cure. Dior didn't know he is mortal and since he was acting as elven king he probably saw himself as an elf, so his choice was automatic, even if the first child of both kinds arrived to Aman after his death. r> if you do want to include those marriages: r> Mithrellas + Imrazhor (I mean, we can't miss the founding parents of r> the house of Dol Amroth) r> Another elf couple you missed: r> Amroth + Nimrodel I forgot of the at least pair and had no idea of the first one. Dol Amroth - another mixed couple of elf and man? >> Fingon + (if you follow the Silmarillion, not HoME) r> Meril was a suggestion... it was somewhere in HOME that Celebrimbor r> was quite fond of Fingon and his wife (Meril was suggested, but r> abandoned) and that he thought that Gil-galad and Meril would have r> travelled to the isle of Balar... HOME 12 or HOME 10 I think. I r> recently read that... So he gets a wife in HoME, too, interesting. Then finally if not his then Meril would be Orodreth's wife being Gil-galad's mother. r> Hehehehe and what to do with Maedhros.. to cite Tolkien: who appeared r> to be unwed? ;) Run and get him ;) He is married to the oath, unfortunately, elleths has to wait for Arda Healed ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 928 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94198 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2007 01:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2007 01:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53009.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.39) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2007 01:40:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 61246 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2007 01:39:32 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Dz7dJ7sVM1l_0VLFQ2bFWpX8nBb_m1KrL_fzVZ1mkVBR03SLU_5sGxa1pBq1HC8Ns7FnZfmgHMAvsIZxX2yDK4ps5kuqeeHcbwNb4JOc_6dGH8xzzwI- Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53009.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:39:31 BST Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:39:31 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <154754931.20070416003744@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-666616407-1176687571=:61186" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <135212.61186.qm@web53009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=EPO-u1zUctfwWTpFPUcND0yVcniXJF7Rb9SLdkpSEp2MlxdRgkNC --0-666616407-1176687571=:61186 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oh no, we're not going deep into if some elves / half elves were mortal or not, it's just characters list to find out missing names. Besides these characters mostly have chosen to be mortal life after marriage (though "only L�thien died in real" or what was that line from the Silmarillion, so we can't be sure if anyone else died in a typically mortal way). And IIRC Tolkien calls Tuor the only adan to be numbered among the eldar. I agree that being mortal is a "default setting" for a half elf, but I believe also that every half elf had a choice - on Arda or in Mandos, no matter if their souls went there before or after E�rendil's journey. Events on Arda and in Mandos are not in the same time for me, as I see Mandos being a timeless place, where a souls takes as much time as is necessary for being cure. Dior didn't know he is mortal and since he was acting as elven king he probably saw himself as an elf, so his choice was automatic, even if the first child of both kinds arrived to Aman after his death. I had never thought about mortal being the "defaut setting" for a peredhel. I do agre that every peredhel would have had a choice, though. Oh, another idea... If we know a reasonable bit about peredhel, but what would the effects of Maiarin blood have been for Daeron and Luthien -- especially if she had remained immortal. r> Mithrellas + Imrazhor (I mean, we can't miss the founding parents of r> the house of Dol Amroth) I knew the house of Dol Amroth had elven blood in them, but I didn't realize Tolkien had name the couple. Which book is it in? Did Tolkien say much else about them? I forgot of the at least pair and had no idea of the first one. Dol Amroth - another mixed couple of elf and man? Yes. r> Hehehehe and what to do with Maedhros.. to cite Tolkien: who appeared r> to be unwed? ;) Run and get him ;) He is married to the oath, unfortunately, elleths has to wait for Arda Healed ;) Bahaha! That is too funny! But I hate to inform you that it is impossible to marry an oath. More like he didn't have the chance before Thangorodrim and no elleth wanted to get too close to a former prisoner of Morgoth. They tended to have a bad reputation, even after they escaped because of Morgoth's tendency to establish some form of mind control to force them to betray their people once they got back. Cel Helyanwe . --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. --0-666616407-1176687571=:61186 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Oh no, we're not going deep into if some elves / half elves were
mortal or not, it's just characters list to find out missing names.
Besides these characters mostly have chosen to be mortal life after marriage
(though "only L�thien died in real" or what was that line from the
Silmarillion, so we can't be sure if anyone else died in a typically mortal
way).
And IIRC Tolkien calls Tuor the only adan to be numbered among the eldar.

I agree that being mortal is a "default setting" for a half elf, but I
believe also that every half elf had a choice - on Arda or in Mandos,
no matter if their souls went there before or after E�rendil's
journey. Events on Arda and in Mandos are not in the same time for me,
as I see Mandos being a timeless place, where a souls takes as much
time as is necessary for being cure. Dior didn't know he is mortal and
since he was acting as elven king he probably saw himself as an elf,
so his choice was automatic, even if the first child of both kinds
arrived to Aman after his death.
I had never thought about mortal being the "defaut setting" for a peredhel.  I do agre that every peredhel would have had a choice, though.
Oh, another idea...  If we know a reasonable bit about peredhel, but what would the effects of Maiarin blood have been for Daeron and Luthien -- especially if she had remained immortal.
 
r> Mithrellas + Imrazhor (I mean, we can't miss the founding parents of
r> the house of Dol Amroth)
 
I knew the house of Dol Amroth had elven blood in them, but I didn't realize Tolkien had name the couple.  Which book is it in?  Did Tolkien say much else about them?

I forgot of the at least pair and had no idea of the first one. Dol Amroth
- another mixed couple of elf and man?
Yes.

r> Hehehehe and what to do with Maedhros.. to cite Tolkien: who appeared
r> to be unwed? ;)

Run and get him ;) He is married to the oath, unfortunately, elleths has
to wait for Arda Healed ;)

Bahaha!  That is too funny!  But I hate to inform you that it is impossible to marry an oath.  More like he didn't have the chance before Thangorodrim and no elleth wanted to get too close to a former prisoner of Morgoth.  They tended to have a bad reputation, even after they escaped because of Morgoth's tendency to establish some form of mind control to force them to betray their people once they got back.
 
Cel Helyanwe
.


Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. --0-666616407-1176687571=:61186-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 929 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35719 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2007 16:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2007 16:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.215) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2007 16:02:05 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2007 16:01:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2007 16:01:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2007 16:01:40 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:01:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <154754931.20070416003744@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=jt2FMuCN-jz5XU-T2gG9xaF0B2bPRijmiqwC5vtAOtxSRM_Uy97P39I X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > r> Well in Morhoth's Ring it is clearly stated that though Aegnor= loved > r> Andreth, he never acted upon it. That's why Finrod tries to co= nsole > r> Andreth... > > A lot of people interpret this as he escaped fo= r couldn't be with > her on Arda Marred, but they will be together on Arda = Healed, when > both kinds destinys will be closer and a marriage of elf and= human > will not be that dramatic. I am not so sure if that's truth, but I= > don't like the idea of human/elf at all. Hmm, Arda healed is not intend= ed for elves at all. When the last battle happens, the Arda the elves are t= ied to ends. Every elf knows this and well that was the tragedy that Andret= h & Aegnor struggled with, either knowing a brief love and be surrendered f= orever.. or nothing at all. >> Also, iuf you focus on elves alone, what= are these mortal >> characters doing on the list > > Oh no, we're not g= oing deep into if some elves / half elves were > mortal or not, it's just c= haracters list to find out missing names. Well, you said that it was about= elves only... ;) > Besides these characters mostly have chosen to be mort= al life after > marriage (though "only L=FAthien died in real" or what was= that line > from the Silmarillion, so we can't be sure if anyone else die= d in a > typically mortal way). LOL Define that ;) Arwen did. >> r> Di= or + Nimloth =3D mortal and elf pair, children coming from this >> are mor= tal > > I agree that being mortal is a "default setting" for a half elf, b= ut > I believe also that every half elf had a choice - on Arda or in > Man= dos, no matter if their souls went there before or after > E=E4rendil's jo= urney. Events on Arda and in Mandos are not in the same > time for me, as = I see Mandos being a timeless place, where a souls ? takes as much time as= is necessary for being cure. Dior didn't know > he is mortal and since he= was acting as elven king he probably saw > himself as an elf, so his choi= ce was automatic, even if the first > child of both kinds arrived to Aman = after his death. Nopes, this is fanon. It is stated absolutely perfectly c= lear that before E=E4rendil pleaded for both kindreds, a child of an elven/= mortal union was mortal by default. There was no choice what so ever. This = started at E=E4rendil and his line. The children of Elros, whoms father cho= se Edain and mortality and there would never be ever the option of chosing = for a kindred. If not, Aragorn could have said, hey Arwen, you know lets en= d this suffering and I chose for your kind, that makes your dad super happy= . Also there is the tragic case of Mithrellas, an elf who married a mortal= and would survive her husband =E1nd her children. So no. A lot of this can= be found in The Peoples of Middle Earth, The Heirs of Elendil, the line of= Dol Amroth. "Mithrellas, one of the companions of Nimrodel, is lost in th= e woods of Belfalas, and is harboured by Imrazor the Numenorean [added in = margin: Imrazor 1950-2076], who takes her to wife (according to the lege= nds and traditions of Dol Amroth); though after a few years she = vanishes, whether to wander in the woods or seek the havens. The so= n of the union of Mithrellas and Imrazor received the elven-name = of Galador; from him the lords of Dol Amroth traced their des= cent. After the ending of the kings they became virtually indepen= dent princes, ruling over Belfalas, but they were at all times loy= al to the Steward as representing the ancient = crown. Then there is a li= st, Galador became 125 years old, the average life span for an Edain. In L= etter 153 JRRT this is specifically adressed: "I suppose that actually the= chief difficulties I have involved myself in are scientific and biological= =97 which worry me just as much as the theological and metaphysical (thoug= h you do not seem to mind them so much). Elves and Men are evidently in bio= logical terms one race, or they could not breed and produce fertile offspri= ng =96 even as a rare event : there are 2 cases only in my legends of such = unions, and they are merged in the descendants of E=E4rendil.1 But since so= me have held that the rate of longevity is a biological characteristic, wit= hin limits of variation, you could not have Elves in a sense 'immortal' =96= not eternal, but not dying by 'old age' =97 and Men mortal, more or less a= s they now seem to be in the Primary World =96 and yet sufficiently akin. I= might answer that this 'biology' is only a theory, that modern 'gerontolog= y', or whatever they call it, finds 'ageing' rather more mysterious, and le= ss clearly inevitable in bodies of human structure. But I should actually a= nswer: I do not care. This is a biological dictum in my imaginary world. It= is only (as yet) an incompletely imagined world, a rudimentary 'secondary'= ; but if it pleased the Creator to give it (in a corrected form) Reality on= any plane, then you would just have to enter it and begin studying its dif= ferent biology, that is all. But as it is =97 though it seems to have grown= out of hand, so that parts seem (to me) rather revealed through me than by= me =96 its purpose is still largely literary (and, if you don't boggle at = the term, didactic). Elves and Men are represented as biologically akin in = this 'history', because Elves are certain aspects of Men and their talents = and desires, incarnated in my little world. They have certain freedoms and = powers we should like to have, and the beauty and peril and sorrow of the p= ossession of these things is exhibited in them. .... I have already dealt = with the biological difficulty of Elf-Human marriage. It occurs of course i= n 'fairy-story' and folk-lore, though not all cases have the same notions b= ehind them. But I have made it far more exceptional. I do not see that 'rei= ncarnation' affects the resulting problems at all. But 'immortality' (in my= world only within the limited longevity of the Earth) does, of course. As = many fairy-stories perceive. In the primary story of L=FAthien and Beren, L= uthien is allowed as an absolute exception to divest herself of 'immonality= ' and become 'mortal' =97 but when Beren is slain by the Wolf-warden of the= Gates of Hell, L=FAthien obtains a brief respite in which they both return= to Middle-earth 'alive' =96 though not mingling with other people : a kind= of Orpheus-legend in reverse, but one of Pity not of Inexorability. T=FAor= weds Idril the daughter of Turgon King of Gondolin; and 'it is supposed' (= not stated) that he as an unique exception receives the Elvish limited 'imm= ortality': an exception either way. E=E4rendil is T=FAor's son & father of = Elros (First King of N=FAmenor) and Elrond, their mother being Elwing daugh= ter of Dior, son of Beren and L=FAthien: so the problem of the Half-elven b= ecomes united in one line. The view is that the Half-elven have a power of = (irrevocable) choice, which may be delayed but not permanently, which kin's= fate they will share. Elros chose to be a King and 'longaevus' but mortal,= so all his descendants are mortal, and of a specially noble race, but with= dwindling longevity: so Aragorn (who, however, has a greater life-span tha= n his contemporaries, double, though not the original N=FAmen=F3rean treble= , that of Men). Elrond chose to be among the Elves. His children =96 with a= renewed Elvish strain, since their mother was Celebr=EDan dtr. of Galadrie= l =96 have to make their choices. Arwen is not a 're-incarnation' of L=FAth= ien (that in the view of this mythical history would be impossible, since L= =FAthien has died like a mortal and left the world of time) but a descendan= t very like her in looks, character, and fate. When she weds Aragorn (whose= love-story elsewhere recounted is not here central and only occasionally r= eferred to) she 'makes the choice of L=FAthien', so the grief at her partin= g from Elrond is specially poignant. Elrond passes Over Sea. The end of his= sons, Elladan and Elrohir, is not told: they delay their choice, and remai= n for a while. As for 'whose authority decides these things?' The immediate= 'authorities' are the Valar (the Powers or Authorities): the 'gods'. But t= hey are only created spirits =96 of high angelic order we should say, with = their attendant lesser angels =96 reverend, therefore, but not worshipful ;= and though potently 'subcreative', and resident on Earth to which they are= bound by love, having assisted in its making and ordering, they cannot by = their own will alter any fundamental provision. They called upon the One in= the crisis of the rebellion of Numenor =96 when the N=FAmen=F3reans attemp= ted to take the Undying Land by force of a great armada in their lust for c= orporal immortality =96 which necessitated a catastrophic change in the sha= pe of Earth. Immortality and Mortality being the special gifts of God to th= e Eruhini (in whose conception and creation the Valar had no part at all) i= t must be assumed that no alteration of their fundamental kind could be eff= ected by the Valar even in one case: the cases of L=FAthien (and T=FAor) an= d the position of their descendants was a direct act of God. The entering i= nto Men of the Elven-strain is indeed represented as part of a Divine Plan = for the ennoblement of the Human Race, from the beginning destined to repla= ce the Elves." Also there is the doom of Manwe regarding the mortality of = a child coming from a elf - man union: 'Judgement of Manwe' in HoME 5, Que= nta Silmarillion, The Conclusion of the Quenta Silmarillion, paragraph $9 (= page 326 of the hardback edition). "Now all those who have the blood of mor= tal Men, in whatever part, great or small, are mortal, unless other doom be= granted to them; but in this matter the power of doom is given to me. This= is my decree: to Earendil and to Elwing and to their sons shall be given l= eave each to choose freely under which kindred they shall be judged." So t= his choice was only for the descendants of E=E4rendil and Elwing and not th= ose who were born before it. They were mortal. Don't get me wrong though, = I really would love that idea of every half-elf having the choice, but that= makes Arwen's pleight pretty much redundant of Aragorn could say: hey baby= , let's choose for the elven kind ;) >>> Meril was a suggestion... it was= somewhere in HOME that >>> Celebrimbor was quite fond of Fingon and his w= ife (Meril was >>> suggested, but abandoned) and that he thought that Gil-= galad and >>> Meril would have travelled to the isle of Balar... HOME 12 o= r HOME >>> 10 I think. I recently read that... > > So he gets a wife in H= oME, too, interesting. Then finally if not his > then Meril would be Orodre= th's wife being Gil-galad's mother. Well you already know I confuzzled Fin= rod with Fingon. ;) Usual default standard confusion for me. Now if you ex= cuse me, I need to cool of my fingers after typing this over. :c) Rhapsod= y From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 930 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26966 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2007 18:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2007 18:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc12.comcast.net) (206.18.177.52) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2007 18:52:55 -0000 Received: from amailcenter10.comcast.net ([204.127.225.110]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070416185124b12008m2eve>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:51:24 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter10.comcast.net; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:51:24 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:51:24 +0000 Message-Id: <041620071851.9220.4623C5AC0000EA130000240422165258560B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: "Children of Hurin" Tomorrow! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=HbEbap36IXd3mWgBu6djXoGPzw1IMjtbuJY7UeT4Fv5etddLzNC3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Good day, all, Just a reminder that, tomorrow, the new book "Children of Hurin" is available. It's an exciting day ... a new primary "canon" source being added to our already extensive collection. I find myself wondering what new details and tidbits we might get; what discussions and debates might be resolved (or created! ;) in our quest to understand Tolkien's world. Of course, your comments and thoughts on the new book are welcome here. I'm eager to see what everyone thinks about it! Have a nice week and happy reading! Dawn (who will be finding reason to go to the bookstore sometime very soon) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 931 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11556 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2007 19:10:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2007 19:10:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2007 19:10:06 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D799F5801B for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:09:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:09:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:09:37 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <322503254.20070416210937@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <041620071851.9220.4623C5AC0000EA130000240422165258560B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <041620071851.9220.4623C5AC0000EA130000240422165258560B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] "Children of Hurin" Tomorrow! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=SbhHNIIGAvInTHHOhlr0Mw-KjHAcjU3T38vlV7o-dVOqf_hACNg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai DawnFelagund, And here's the first chapter to read on-line: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_40925765_1/203-6348795-8510327?ie=UTF8&docId=1000064113&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=special-offers-1&pf_rd_r=1NB19M9VZ0AHSKCBY620&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=137447791&pf_rd_i=0007246226 I'll have to wait 4 weeks more for the Polish translation, but I hope to get the original text, too. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 932 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61632 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2007 19:14:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2007 19:14:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2007 19:14:06 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2007 19:14:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2007 19:14:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2007 19:14:01 -0000 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 19:14:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <322503254.20070416210937@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: "Children of Hurin" Tomorrow! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=n1H9-fgh_r9u2MeVVsN8O3Rssav-tzLcED_NTe7ooZR4Fy4Ih7vfQQ X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser Barnes and Noble has member-coupons specifically for this book. I wasn't= going to buy it just yet (in hard cover), but with a coupon, I'm sorely t= empted (especially since Lee's illustrations look gorgeous from what I've = seen). If I do, I'll be sure to let you know what I think! ~ MithLuin --= - In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wro= te: > > Ai DawnFelagund, > > > And here's the first chapter to read on-li= ne: > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html/ref=3Damb_link_40925765_1= /203- 6348795-8510327? ie=3DUTF8&docId=3D1000064113&pf_rd_m=3DA3P5ROKL5A1OL= E&pf_rd_s=3Dspecial- offers- 1&pf_rd_r=3D1NB19M9VZ0AHSKCBY620&pf_rd_t=3D201= &pf_rd_p=3D137447791&pf_rd_i=3D 0007246226 > > I'll have to wait 4 weeks m= ore for the Polish translation, but I hope > to get the original text, too= . > > Suilad, > Sirielle > > sirielle@... > ht= tp://www.isle.px.pl > http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 933 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42893 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2007 19:52:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2007 19:52:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.210) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2007 19:52:34 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n31.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2007 19:46:48 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2007 19:46:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2007 19:46:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 19:46:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=U8DKybqBwGFEaNI_FxDdwdQB5tLomXsHwcSxts0oubZhJgVe8VftsA X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser LoL, Rhapsody, that was thorough! (But saves a lot of effort, if people = have not yet read those passages.) Tolkien realized there was a problem wi= th having immortal elves and mortal men wed at all, but also that such an = event was significant and necessary for the story. So, he dealt with it a= s a very special case, requiring special judgements from the Authorities o= f Arda. In two cases, the spouse is given a choice *for no reason at all= *. There is no reason for Luthien to be a mortal, and no reason for Tuor= to become immortal. Tolkien does caution that Tuor's fate is just a rumo= r, but obviously one that he takes seriously. So, the fact that they marr= ied someone of different fate (for a high doom) meant that they got specia= l treatment by a direct act of God. Mithrellas (one of Nimrodel's handmaid= ens) and Imrazor (the first prince of Dol Amroth) were not part of any hig= h fate. They fit into the very common "so I married a Selkie" kind of fol= ktale. There was no divine intervention (by Eru or the Valar) to keep her= and her husband together in eternity - their fates are sundered, as far a= s we know. So, yes, the *default* is that if an elf marries a mortal, the= offspring will all be mortal because *the Valar* have no authority to ac= t otherwise. But *Eru* can do whatever he pleases, so he can keep the spo= uses together if he chooses to (in the case of Luthien and Tuor). The "= problem of the Half-elven" shows that Manwe wished to deal with the divine= intervention cases separately. Rather than forcing all descendants of Lu= thien and Beren (and Idril and Tuor) to become mortal, he gave the oldest = surviving ones a choice - and as long as they chose "immortal", their desc= endents would also have a choice. Thus, Elros (and all of his descendants= ) have no choice, and Aragorn and Arwen's children have no choice. But if= Elladan and Elrohir chose "immortal", their children would have a choice.= It is also true that the half-elven matured at the rate of mortals, ma= rrying in their early twenties (at least in the cases of Elwing and E=E4re= ndil, anyway). So, with no interference (from Eru or the Valar), I would = agree that Dior and his sons would be mortal as well. BUT - since they wen= t to Mandos before anyone could weigh in, we don't *KNOW* if there was int= erference there or not. If Manw=EB chose to, he would have authority to r= ule on their fates, just as he had authority in the case of E=E4rendil and= Elwing. And, likewise, if Eru wished to make Dior immortal so that he an= d Nimloth could be together, he could. So, fics that allow Dior's sons (o= r Dior himself) to make a choice while residing in Mandos by special perm= ission from Manw=EB or Eru are not *contradicting* canon - though I will c= ertainly admit that such an idea is fanon, because Tolkien does not speak = of their fates directly (one way or the other). Either way, Dior is separ= ated from his parents or his wife and daughter, so the choice cannot be ea= sy. Also, if such a scene takes place in Mandos, it could certainly happe= n *after* the judgement that Manw=EB offered to Elwing and E=E4rendil. Be= ren showed us that at least some lingering by mortals in those Halls is po= ssible. To play "what-if?", we could speculate on what would have hap= pened if Aragorn had fallen in love with an elven maiden who was *not* so = conveniently half-elven. Still someone of high lineage, but not Arwen. = He would have married her to renew the line of the Kings and reestablish G= ondor...but...what would have happened at his death? It was a high enough= doom that she might have been a Luthien-repeat, where the direct interven= tion of Eru allowed them both to become mortal. Thankfully, Tolkien didn'= t write this, but such a scenario would fit with what he has described. A= ragorn becoming immortal would be just as likely, but wouldn't fit in well= with establishing a (mortal) line of kings. ~ MithLuin --- In Silmari= llionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wr= ote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle > wrote: > > > > r> Well in Morhoth's Ring it is clearly stated that t= hough Aegnor loved > > r> Andreth, he never acted upon it. That's why Fin= rod tries to console > > r> Andreth... > > > > A lot of people interpret= this as he escaped for couldn't be with > > her on Arda Marred, but they w= ill be together on Arda Healed, when > > both kinds destinys will be close= r and a marriage of elf and human > > will not be that dramatic. I am not = so sure if that's truth, but I > > don't like the idea of human/elf at all= . > > Hmm, Arda healed is not intended for elves at all. When the last > b= attle happens, the Arda the elves are tied to ends. Every elf knows > this= and well that was the tragedy that Andreth & Aegnor struggled > with, eith= er knowing a brief love and be surrendered forever.. or > nothing at all. >= > >> Also, iuf you focus on elves alone, what are these mortal > >> c= haracters doing on the list > > > > Oh no, we're not going deep into if s= ome elves / half elves were > > mortal or not, it's just characters list to= find out missing names. > > Well, you said that it was about elves only.= .. ;) > > > Besides these characters mostly have chosen to be mortal life = after > > marriage (though "only L=FAthien died in real" or what was that= line > > from the Silmarillion, so we can't be sure if anyone else died = in a > > typically mortal way). > > LOL Define that ;) Arwen did. > > = >> r> Dior + Nimloth =3D mortal and elf pair, children coming from this = > >> are mortal > > > > I agree that being mortal is a "default setting" f= or a half elf, but > > I believe also that every half elf had a choice - o= n Arda or in > > Mandos, no matter if their souls went there before or aft= er > > E=E4rendil's journey. Events on Arda and in Mandos are not in the = same > > time for me, as I see Mandos being a timeless place, where a sou= ls > ? takes as much time as is necessary for being cure. Dior didn't kno= w > > he is mortal and since he was acting as elven king he probably saw = > > himself as an elf, so his choice was automatic, even if the first > = > child of both kinds arrived to Aman after his death. > > Nopes, this is = fanon. It is stated absolutely perfectly clear that > before E=E4rendil ple= aded for both kindreds, a child of an elven/mortal > union was mortal by d= efault. There was no choice what so ever. This > started at E=E4rendil and = his line. The children of Elros, whoms father > chose Edain and mortality = and there would never be ever the option of > chosing for a kindred. If no= t, Aragorn could have said, hey Arwen, you > know lets end this suffering = and I chose for your kind, that makes > your dad super happy. > > Also the= re is the tragic case of Mithrellas, an elf who married a > mortal and woul= d survive her husband =E1nd her children. So no. A lot of > this can be fo= und in The Peoples of Middle Earth, The Heirs of > Elendil, the line of Dol= Amroth. > > "Mithrellas, one of the companions of Nimrodel, is lost in th= e woods > of Belfalas, and is harboured by Imrazor the Numenorean [added = in > margin: Imrazor 1950-2076], who takes her to wife (according to the= > legends and traditions of Dol Amroth); though after a few > ye= ars she vanishes, whether to wander in the woods or seek the > hav= ens. The son of the union of Mithrellas and Imrazor > received t= he elven-name of Galador; from him the lords of > Dol Amroth = traced their descent. After the ending of the > kings they became= virtually independent princes, ruling over > Belfalas, but they wer= e at all times loyal to the Steward as > representing the ancient= > = crown. > > Then there is a list, Galador became 125 years old, the avera= ge life > span for an Edain. > > In Letter 153 JRRT this is specifically = adressed: > > "I suppose that actually the chief difficulties I have invol= ved myself > in are scientific and biological =97 which worry me just as m= uch as the > theological and metaphysical (though you do not seem to mind = them so > much). Elves and Men are evidently in biological terms one race,= or > they could not breed and produce fertile offspring =96 even as a rare= > event : there are 2 cases only in my legends of such unions, and they >= are merged in the descendants of E=E4rendil.1 But since some have held > = that the rate of longevity is a biological characteristic, within > limits = of variation, you could not have Elves in a sense 'immortal' =96 > not ete= rnal, but not dying by 'old age' =97 and Men mortal, more or less > as the= y now seem to be in the Primary World =96 and yet sufficiently > akin. I mi= ght answer that this 'biology' is only a theory, that modern > 'gerontolog= y', or whatever they call it, finds 'ageing' rather more > mysterious, and = less clearly inevitable in bodies of human structure. > But I should actua= lly answer: I do not care. This is a biological > dictum in my imaginary wo= rld. It is only (as yet) an incompletely > imagined world, a rudimentary 's= econdary'; but if it pleased the > Creator to give it (in a corrected form)= Reality on any plane, then > you would just have to enter it and begin stu= dying its different > biology, that is all. > But as it is =97 though it se= ems to have grown out of hand, so that > parts seem (to me) rather revealed= through me than by me =96 its purpose > is still largely literary (and, i= f you don't boggle at the term, > didactic). Elves and Men are represented = as biologically akin in this > 'history', because Elves are certain aspect= s of Men and their talents > and desires, incarnated in my little world. T= hey have certain freedoms > and powers we should like to have, and the bea= uty and peril and sorrow > of the possession of these things is exhibited = in them. .... > > I have already dealt with the biological difficulty of E= lf-Human > marriage. It occurs of course in 'fairy-story' and folk-lore, t= hough > not all cases have the same notions behind them. But I have made it= > far more exceptional. I do not see that 'reincarnation' affects the > re= sulting problems at all. But 'immortality' (in my world only within > the = limited longevity of the Earth) does, of course. As many > fairy-stories pe= rceive. > In the primary story of L=FAthien and Beren, Luthien is allowed a= s an > absolute exception to divest herself of 'immonality' and become > 'm= ortal' =97 but when Beren is slain by the Wolf-warden of the Gates of > He= ll, L=FAthien obtains a brief respite in which they both return to > Middle= -earth 'alive' =96 though not mingling with other people : a kind > of Orp= heus-legend in reverse, but one of Pity not of Inexorability. > T=FAor weds= Idril the daughter of Turgon King of Gondolin; and 'it is > supposed' (not= stated) that he as an unique exception receives the > Elvish limited 'immo= rtality': an exception either way. E=E4rendil is > T=FAor's son & father of= Elros (First King of N=FAmenor) and Elrond, their > mother being Elwing d= aughter of Dior, son of Beren and L=FAthien: so the > problem of the Half-= elven becomes united in one line. The view is that > the Half-elven have a= power of (irrevocable) choice, which may be > delayed but not permanently,= which kin's fate they will share. Elros > chose to be a King and 'longaev= us' but mortal, so all his descendants > are mortal, and of a specially no= ble race, but with dwindling > longevity: so Aragorn (who, however, has a g= reater life-span than his > contemporaries, double, though not the origina= l N=FAmen=F3rean treble, > that of Men). Elrond chose to be among the Elves= . His children =96 with > a renewed Elvish strain, since their mother was = Celebr=EDan dtr. of > Galadriel =96 have to make their choices. Arwen is no= t a > 're-incarnation' of L=FAthien (that in the view of this mythical his= tory > would be impossible, since L=FAthien has died like a mortal and left= the > world of time) but a descendant very like her in looks, character, = and > fate. When she weds Aragorn (whose love-story elsewhere recounted i= s > not here central and only occasionally referred to) she 'makes the > ch= oice of L=FAthien', so the grief at her parting from Elrond is > specially = poignant. Elrond passes Over Sea. The end of his sons, > Elladan and Elrohi= r, is not told: they delay their choice, and remain > for a while. > As fo= r 'whose authority decides these things?' The immediate > 'authorities' are= the Valar (the Powers or Authorities): the 'gods'. > But they are only cr= eated spirits =96 of high angelic order we should > say, with their attenda= nt lesser angels =96 reverend, therefore, but not > worshipful ; and thoug= h potently 'subcreative', and resident on Earth > to which they are bound = by love, having assisted in its making and > ordering, they cannot by their= own will alter any fundamental > provision. They called upon the One in th= e crisis of the rebellion of > Numenor =96 when the N=FAmen=F3reans attemp= ted to take the Undying Land by > force of a great armada in their lust fo= r corporal immortality =96 which > necessitated a catastrophic change in t= he shape of Earth. Immortality > and Mortality being the special gifts of = God to the Eruhini (in whose > conception and creation the Valar had no pa= rt at all) it must be > assumed that no alteration of their fundamental kin= d could be effected > by the Valar even in one case: the cases of L=FAthie= n (and T=FAor) and the > position of their descendants was a direct act of= God. The entering > into Men of the Elven-strain is indeed represented as = part of a Divine > Plan for the ennoblement of the Human Race, from the be= ginning > destined to replace the Elves." > > Also there is the doom of Ma= nwe regarding the mortality of a child > coming from a elf - man union: > = > 'Judgement of Manwe' in HoME 5, Quenta Silmarillion, The Conclusion of >= the Quenta Silmarillion, paragraph $9 (page 326 of the hardback > edition)= . "Now all those who have the blood of mortal Men, in whatever > part, gre= at or small, are mortal, unless other doom be granted to > them; but in thi= s matter the power of doom is given to me. This is my > decree: to Earendi= l and to Elwing and to their sons shall be given > leave each to choose fre= ely under which kindred they shall be judged." > > So this choice was onl= y for the descendants of E=E4rendil and Elwing and > not those who were bo= rn before it. They were mortal. > > Don't get me wrong though, I really wo= uld love that idea of every > half-elf having the choice, but that makes Ar= wen's pleight pretty much > redundant of Aragorn could say: hey baby, let'= s choose for the elven > kind ;) > > >>> Meril was a suggestion... it wa= s somewhere in HOME that > >>> Celebrimbor was quite fond of Fingon and hi= s wife (Meril was > >>> suggested, but abandoned) and that he thought that= Gil-galad and > >>> Meril would have travelled to the isle of Balar... H= OME 12 or HOME > >>> 10 I think. I recently read that... > > > > So he g= ets a wife in HoME, too, interesting. Then finally if not his > > then Mer= il would be Orodreth's wife being Gil-galad's mother. > > Well you already= know I confuzzled Finrod with Fingon. ;) Usual > default standard confusio= n for me. > > Now if you excuse me, I need to cool of my fingers after typ= ing this over. > > :c) > > Rhapsody > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 934 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55681 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2007 22:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2007 22:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc14.comcast.net) (206.18.177.54) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2007 22:13:28 -0000 Received: from amailcenter08.comcast.net ([204.127.225.108]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070419215824b1400887n3e>; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:58:24 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter08.comcast.net; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:58:23 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:58:23 +0000 Message-Id: <041920072158.9045.4627E5FF000B5D1F0000235522165662760B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Children of Hurin" Tomorrow! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=Thr5axbOkyv_U-Nt7xcEdTVJrGg_EM9li54iaFdLf450LeRaMSaC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "marielprosser" > > Barnes and Noble has member-coupons specifically for this book. I > wasn't going to buy it just yet (in hard cover), but with a coupon, > I'm sorely tempted (especially since Lee's illustrations look > gorgeous from what I've seen). > > If I do, I'll be sure to let you know what I think! Yay! For coupons and for swapping notes on new Tolkien books. ;) Hubby surprised me on Tuesday with it. I can home and it was sitting there on the endtable ... quite a nice surprise. :) I've only read the introductory material so far, though, but even that was interesting. So far, I've resisted flipping through and looking at all of the pictures. The cover though ... I had no idea that Turin was hot! :^D *ahem* And the first picture of Hurin flying into Gondolin on the Eagles is beautiful. That's as far as I've gotten. I'm trying to resist starting the story now. I really have better things to do ... Dawn the (not so) Steadfast ;) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 935 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50181 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2007 22:28:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2007 22:28:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2007 22:28:27 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r8.1.) id r.d24.c4c4d6a (57365) for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:20:44 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1177021244" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Children of Hurin" Tomorrow! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=qGT5Zn0Uu71CInACGFn38KjxXIZWeY8Al4LlaaOzcBk8mLD1i6_v X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1177021244 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The cover though ... I had no idea that Turin was hot! :^D *ahem* And the first picture of Hurin flying into Gondolin on the Eagles is beautiful. That's as far as I've gotten. I thought that he looked was pretty nice myself *ahem* --although I do have a friend who is an archeologist who complained about the helm. Oh, whatever. Really! ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1177021244 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
The cover though ... I had no idea that Tur= in was hot! :^D *ahem* And the first picture of Hurin flying into Gondol= in on the Eagles is beautiful. That's as far as I've gotten.
<= /BLOCKQUOTE>
I thought that he looked was pretty nic= e myself *ahem* --al= though I do have a friend who is an archeologist who complained about the = helm. Oh, whatever. Really!



See what's free at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1177021244-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 936 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55612 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2007 22:41:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2007 22:41:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2007 22:41:33 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C43258022 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:41:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:41:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:41:24 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1623875127.20070420004124@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Children of Hurin" Tomorrow! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=Ut9U2pgsL0-WRZB5Kg9hKiEis7wBbk_wzLM0BaqKBZOkZ-ugWBw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, Well, Turin was so nice that they called him elf (sorry, don't remember this epess�, he had too many names ;) ). hac> --although I do have a friend who is an archeologist who hac> complained about the helm. Oh, whatever. Really! Have your friend said anything specific about the helmet? I'm curious. This helmet doesn't fit with it's description from UT. But I really like this design, no matter if it covers face from dragon's fire or not ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 937 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88847 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2007 14:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2007 14:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.113) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2007 14:34:10 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2007 14:34:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2007 14:34:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2007 14:34:10 -0000 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:34:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Hi - I just joined X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=IdTUK9UiVODmoUnQs_GWxhFo3CSB2sY2KJTNPLW3yMkpR_DpXJfcamAwAw X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Hello, I am Tinni and I just joined. I used to write a lot of fanfiction bu= t then stopped for a number of reasons. But the desire to write simarilli= on based fanfiction never really left me and this year, for the first time= in a long time, I started a new silmarillion fanfiction. But I found myse= lf suffering from total isolation with no one to bounce ideas off and I ev= en doubted anyone really cared. Then a friend pointed me towards you guys.= So I thought I would join up. My fanfictions have never had a mass appeal= , but all of them can be found at http://www.fanfiction.net/~tinni My WIP= at the moment is called The Return and I admit it's not going well. I'll = probably have to restart. Anyway that's enough of a rambling introduction.= Hello again and I hope we can all be friends! http://www.fanfiction.net/s= /3144896/1/ -Tinni From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 938 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44374 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2007 14:44:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2007 14:44:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2007 14:44:48 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FC8574806D for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:42:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:42:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:42:49 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <12910344164.20070420164249@tlen.pl> To: Tinni In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Hi - I just joined X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=6JfbGO3umebDtqWUBTfL9cznwouBn-nDx9Xk-m1HmRh3u0aU0zY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Tinni, T> I am Tinni and I just joined. Welcome :) So the creator of fanon vs canon list has finally come here :) You didn't knwo us, but we know you :D Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 939 Return-Path: X-Sender: DAWNFELAGUND@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65641 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2007 16:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2007 16:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc15.comcast.net) (204.127.225.95) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2007 16:51:27 -0000 Received: from amailcenter09.comcast.net ([204.127.225.109]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070420151744b1500sm3pqe>; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:17:44 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter09.comcast.net; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:17:43 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:17:43 +0000 Message-Id: <042020071517.203.4628D99700046879000000CB2215575114BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: REFXTkZFTEFHVU5EQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: DAWNFELAGUND@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Hi - I just joined X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=3Q5aGZ0X8l5u_XZQey9PYUzIj6aHBFro815G08_VXaaxsX0a_o6a X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, Tinni! Welcome to the group! I love your website; it's a great resource, and I use it all the time. We're honored to have you! :) I hear you on the story ... though my own conundrum is more of the "drowing in WiP" nature. I hope that you figure yours out ... and feel free to bounce ideas off of us in the meanwhile. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 940 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41895 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2007 20:08:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2007 20:08:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.35) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2007 20:08:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 11507 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Apr 2007 20:04:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _5z.vDAVM1nPwIk0iQeHmghQvcReiXZ951H7KCl6jmNvHa0nCIg2gJgEeO.u64_slx0rEERAVJ202UdlSIRZto9iocn.SSf.e7I3K_xinUFyj.kGxPcoZq_cTyUsOgJAsJej9sX2foOirN0- Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:04:21 BST Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:04:21 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1679690920-1177099461=:10957" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <277322.10957.qm@web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=LFmMHPYahbU-FQediDHrYgqfZOlaabXz2QWq8C7CYRaK5UL83XA0 --0-1679690920-1177099461=:10957 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *sigh* Another email that got buried in my inbox... Dawn, this sounds interesting... Would you mind sending me a copy of this? Cel Helyanwe heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: What I've loved about your novel is the way that you toss in foreshadowing at the least expected times. Was just reading Nelyo's drunken rambling today and his terrible forboding. Not light stuff. Neither do I think that Feanor's sons and their cousins spent the entire first 500 years of the First Age wanting to slit their throats at every moment either--simply not possible they just got too much done. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. --0-1679690920-1177099461=:10957 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *sigh* Another email that got buried in my inbox...  Dawn, this sounds interesting...  Would you mind sending me a copy of this?

Cel Helyanwe

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
What I've loved about your novel is the way that you toss in foreshadowing at the least expected times. Was just reading Nelyo's drunken rambling today and his terrible forboding. Not light stuff. Neither do I think that Feanor's sons and their cousins spent the entire first 500 years of the First Age wanting to slit their throats at every moment either--simply not possible they just got too much done.


Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. --0-1679690920-1177099461=:10957-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 941 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14579 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2007 02:43:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2007 02:43:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2007 02:43:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 02:46:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 02:43:00 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:42:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <12910344164.20070420164249@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Hi - I just joined X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=pghJzkpbBqPjYKx6TM1K2iHv_VhFSnhOwIK2LmOpX8cYiVvzgrrxQpndew X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked So my reputation precedes me. I just have to say... yes, yes it's all true= . Everything that you have ever heard about is all true, except that stuff= that you have heard about me that I haven't said about myself. :) --- In= SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wrote: = > > Ai Tinni, > > T> I am Tinni and I just joined. > > Welcome :) So the= creator of fanon vs canon list has finally come here > :) You didn't knwo= us, but we know you :D > > > Suilad, > Sirielle = > > sirielle@... > http://www.isle.px.pl > http://sirielle.deviantart.c= om/ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 942 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17879 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2007 02:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2007 02:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2007 02:43:56 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 02:43:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 02:43:55 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:43:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <042020071517.203.4628D99700046879000000CB2215575114BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Hi - I just joined X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=pKNB1H4lQuMyw7TjiGp-r4EEspowa9XbI3w9ap2AolYkgmbRRpnLp84z4g X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Thanks! It's always great to know that people find my humble website usefu= l. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wro= te: > > Hi, Tinni! > Welcome to the group! I love your website; it's a grea= t resource, and I use it all the time. We're honored to have you! :) > > = I hear you on the story ... though my own conundrum is more of the "drowin= g in WiP" nature. I hope that you figure yours out ... and feel free to bo= unce ideas off of us in the meanwhile. > > All the best, > Dawn > > -- > = ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.l= ivejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Ddawn_felagund > > Are you a relentless = First-Ager? > Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org > ~oOo~ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 943 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55372 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2007 13:22:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2007 13:22:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2007 13:22:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 13:17:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 13:17:11 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:17:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Hi - I just joined X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=QBjtn4j4vo2XaWgJRvYwkiWaVcIEtqQS3Le81xyxJ-OtZoHKjyMc1IU X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Tinni" wrote: > > Hello, > I am Tinni and I just joined. I used to write a lo= t of fanfiction > but then stopped for a number of reasons. But the desire= to write > simarillion based fanfiction never really left me and this yea= r, for > the first time in a long time, I started a new silmarillion > fa= nfiction. \o/ > But I found myself suffering from total isolation with n= o one to > bounce ideas off and I even doubted anyone really cared. Then a= > friend pointed me towards you guys. So I thought I would join up. My > = fanfictions have never had a mass appeal, but all of them can be > found a= t http://www.fanfiction.net/~tinni Well I really love your works and I am= very happy to see you here! {{{{hugs}}}} *bounces off* Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 944 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22411 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2007 13:59:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2007 13:59:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2007 13:59:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 13:57:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 13:57:59 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:57:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=SO4KyRAgGCR_ce3yyonpnMK03H4C8NkzefQXGlQ6X2X3e8dG_-YSy_0 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "marielprosser" wrote: > LoL, Rhapsody, that was thorough! (But saves a lot of = effort, if > people have not yet read those passages.) Well, yeah, but I = would like to say that I *give* information, but I always leave it up to th= e other to have fun with it, or not. I know it might appear sometimes that = I want to stick to canon, but well, I have this tendency to do the opposite= or just give it a twist. :c) > Tolkien realized there was a problem with= having immortal elves and > mortal men wed at all, but also that such an = event was significant > and necessary for the story. So, he dealt with it= as a very special > case, requiring special judgements from the Authoriti= es of Arda. True, but then again when I read the conversation between Fi= nrod and Andreth I can't help to think that it is the race of men being wit= hheld from something. Of course when you read the letters of Tolkien it mak= es you go like, okay you intended that but... what about the tale of Adane= l... > In two cases, the spouse is given a choice *for no reason at all*.= > There is no reason for Luthien to be a mortal, and no reason for > Tu= or to become immortal. Tolkien does caution that Tuor's fate is > just a = rumor, but obviously one that he takes seriously. So, the > fact that the= y married someone of different fate (for a high doom) > meant that they go= t special treatment by a direct act of God. I wonder, seriously, what you = would do if the one you love gets to live forever, but you not: you will ag= e and eventually die, your partner cleaved onto you and will not seek a new= love. I think that when you truly love someone, you do *everything* to sta= y with this person. Call me a hopeless romantic, although Luthien had a rea= son and was prompted the choice in order to be with Beren again. It is a ve= ry harsh fate to see your loved ones die... > Mithrellas (one of Nimrodel'= s handmaidens) and Imrazor (the first > prince of Dol Amroth) were not par= t of any high fate. They fit into > the very common "so I married a Selki= e" kind of folktale. There was > no divine intervention (by Eru or the Va= lar) to keep her and her > husband together in eternity - their fates are = sundered, as far as > we know. May I disagree? I think that the foundatio= n of this House, the specific role this house plays later on in the War of = the Ring does show that Mithrellas and Imrazhor's children served a higher = purpose. Without Dol Amroth: a dead Faramir, a dead =C9omer, Imrahil's infl= uence weighed heavily in getting Aragorn accepted as a king. After all with= no King and the House of Stewards perished, the rulership of Gondor would = be passed on to the House of Dol Amroth. ^-^ > So, yes, the *default* is t= hat if an elf marries a mortal, the > offspring will all be mortal because= *the Valar* have no authority > to act otherwise. But *Eru* can do whate= ver he pleases, so he can > keep the spouses together if he chooses to (in= the case of Luthien > and Tuor). Yeah, but then again I think half-elv= es who will die eventually have a longer life span. > The "problem of the= Half-elven" shows that Manwe wished to deal with > the divine interventio= n cases separately. Rather than forcing all > descendants of Luthien and = Beren (and Idril and Tuor) to become > mortal, he gave the oldest survivin= g ones a choice - and as long as > they chose "immortal", their descendent= s would also have a choice. Well no, the choice to Tuor at the end of his= life had no impact on his children. It was a personal choice given to him,= just as Luthien got a personal offer. Before that, their child Earendil wa= s simply mortal and already wedded Elwing. So was Dior, he was born after L= uthien and Beren came back from Mandos as mortal/Edain. See the Chapter 20 = Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad in the Silmarillion. Elwing was a c= hild of Dior and Nimloth, which made her mortal as well. The choice only be= came operative, the choice that Elrond & Elros had to make *after* Earendil= pleaded for both kindreds. Not before that. > Thus, Elros (and all of his= descendants) have no choice, and Aragorn > and Arwen's children have no c= hoice. But if Elladan and Elrohir > chose "immortal", their children woul= d have a choice. Yeps. :) > It is also true that the half-elven mature= d at the rate of mortals, > marrying in their early twenties (at least in = the cases of Elwing > and E=E4rendil, anyway). So, with no interference (= from Eru or the > Valar), I would agree that Dior and his sons would be mo= rtal as > well. Well they are, see above. Dior was born after Luthien bec= ame mortal. Although she still had very nifty powers :) > BUT - since they= went to Mandos before anyone could weigh in, we > don't *KNOW* if there w= as interference there or not. If Manw=EB chose > to, he would have author= ity to rule on their fates, just as he had > authority in the case of E=E4= rendil and Elwing. And, likewise, if Eru > wished to make Dior immortal s= o that he and Nimloth could be > together, he could. No no no, but Manwe= and Mandos both weighed in on this matter, it was not Mandos alone: "Ther= efore he summoned Beren, and even as L=FAthien had spoken in the hour of hi= s death they met again beyond the Western Sea. But Mandos had no power to w= ithhold the spirits of Men that were dead within the confines of the world,= after their time of waiting; nor could he change the fates of the Children= of Il=FAvatar. He went therefore to Manw=EB, Lord of the Valar, who govern= ed the world under the hand of Il=FAvatar; and Manw=EB sought counsel in hi= s inmost thought, where the will of Il=FAvatar was revealed. These were the= choices that he gave to L=FAthien. Because of her labours and her sorrow, = she should be released from Mandos, and go to Valimar, there to dwell until= the world's end among the Valar, forgetting all griefs that her life had k= nown. Thither Beren could not come. For it was not permitted to the Valar t= o withhold Death from him, which is the gift of Il=FAvatar to Men. But the = other choice was this: that she might return to Middle-earth, and take with= her Beren, there to dwell again, but without certitude of life or joy. The= n she would become mortal, land subject to a second death, even as he; and = ere long she would leave the world for ever, and her beauty become only a m= emory in song. " From Chapter 19 Of Beren and Luthien. There is nothing at= all mentioned about their offspring, that is what sometimes is overlooked.= > So, fics that allow Dior's sons (or Dior himself) to make a choice > w= hile residing in Mandos by special permission from Manw=EB or Eru are > not= *contradicting* canon - though I will certainly admit that such > an idea= is fanon, because Tolkien does not speak of their fates > directly (one w= ay or the other). Well, the thing is, Dior being mortal and all, after h= is time of waiting, he goes beyond Arda, so will his sons. I would like to = see canon references where Dior gets such special permissions and his sons:= he's simply mortal... mortal Luthien, mortal Beren. I never did a full cha= racter study of Dior however, so yeah, I am curious with what you can come = up with. I know Dior is called half-elven, but that doesn't say he's immort= al or has the choice that the line of Earendil & Elwing were granted. > Ei= ther way, Dior is separated from his parents or his wife and > daughter, s= o the choice cannot be easy. Also, if such a scene takes > place in Mando= s, it could certainly happen *after* the judgement > that Manw=EB offered = to Elwing and E=E4rendil. Beren showed us that at > least some lingering = by mortals in those Halls is possible. There is no choice for Dior, nor fo= r Elwing nor for Nimloth. This leaves me wondering why Elwing chose for Elv= en kind, her bond with her mother must have been stronger than with her fat= her. Father beyond Arda, Nimloth in Mandos or on Valinor reborn. > T= o play "what-if?", we could speculate on what would have happened > if Ara= gorn had fallen in love with an elven maiden who was *not* so > convenient= ly half-elven. Still someone of high lineage, but not > Arwen. He would = have married her to renew the line of the Kings and > reestablish Gondor..= .but...what would have happened at his death? This elf would have seen h= er children grow old, die too. The same fate Mithrellas faced. > It was a = high enough doom that she might have been a Luthien-repeat, > where the di= rect intervention of Eru allowed them both to become > mortal. I am not c= ertain of this, Manwe didn't pass these things out like candy. > Thankfull= y, Tolkien didn't write this, but such a scenario > would fit with what he= has described. Aragorn becoming immortal > would be just as likely, but = wouldn't fit in well with establishing > a (mortal) line of kings. Well, = it would be an interesting AU, but I do wonder if the Gondor would have acc= epted a King with an elven bride instead of a Dunedan bride. Oh the bunnie= s!! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 945 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93487 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2007 15:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2007 15:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.241) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2007 15:00:51 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n26.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 15:00:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 15:00:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 15:00:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:00:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <277322.10957.qm@web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=4LA9xqXXs_o76A9Y3ucbG3TDOHnHcZ_jsY0vXuE4FCYyo6ZbWpMY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: > > *sigh* Another email that got buried in my inbox... = Dawn, this sounds interesting... Would you mind sending me a copy of this= ? Hi, Cel, Do you mean my ne'er-ending novel "Another Man's Cage" that Os= hun was talking about? The second draft is going up all over the web; I'm a= t Chapter 39 this week (of 52 chapters) with a new chapter posted each week= . The beginning is still rough (mechanically and stylistically), and despit= e swearing that two drafts was all I'm doing, it looks like there will be a= third to fix these problems. *sigh* Draft Two can be found at ... HASA: = http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter.cfm?stid=3D5420 OSA: http://ww= w.scribeoz.com/fanfic/authors/stories.php?no=3D2819 TFF: http://www.tolkien= fanfiction.com/Story_Read_Head.php?STid=3D693 ff.net: http://www.fanfiction= .net/s/3070350/1/ The complete novel (Draft One) is up in my LiveJournal: = http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/109473.html Though this one is _real= ly_ rough, just to warn you. :) Thanks for your interest and I hope it pro= ves enjoyable! Have a nice weekend, Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 946 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12377 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2007 18:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2007 18:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2007 18:00:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 17:58:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 17:58:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 17:58:45 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Hi - I just joined X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=4-CJkSxrO2IskujV1XBUakQOogldPp894M9b77gBd6PDLCvMKzU X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Welcome aboard! Ellie > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 947 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90453 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2007 18:05:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2007 18:05:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2007 18:05:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 18:02:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 18:02:48 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 18:02:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: SSP: FIC - The Understanding of a Father X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=2edkr2VeQ0ipMPa7iiZvO877F6I9OkHnJWOLE22qnRyBWkHKZN4 X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Never done an SSP before, so here goes. Ellie During the preparations for = the War of Wrath, a recently restored Glorfindel and his father come to a b= etter understanding of what transpired for them both since the rebellion of= the Noldor. Rating: PG-13 http://www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D3= 315&sid=3D8064dfd9a9427a112828538eae18a247 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 948 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97880 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2007 18:09:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2007 18:09:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2007 18:09:20 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 18:10:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2007 18:06:56 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 18:06:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: SSP: FIC - Letting Go X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=Ce58raCw0IwFdsiGwBbMKr1T0vv4ueamtqhtYB6ATzWUpQSgfHQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 And another SSP...I'm really into the War of Wrath and the "fathers" of the= Eldar right now. First with the story about Glorfindel's father and now th= is one about the "Father of the Vanyar". I always seem to write about obsc= ure folk for some reason... Enjoy! Ellie Letting Go Rating: PG-13 The ni= ght before the departure of the Vanyar for the War of Wrath, King Ingwe com= es to terms with the decisions he has made leading up to this event. http:= //www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/story.php?no=3D3368&sid=3D8064dfd9a9427a112828538= eae18a247 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 949 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65222 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2007 01:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2007 01:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53006.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.36) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2007 01:00:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 24853 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Apr 2007 00:53:46 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: paHzuksVM1nI4dQQOZ4QWQXPZAox6YDj9K1lqGws6TG4NvXZny0l0YYVRoU4vv6H4nSVqh_bCR.UZE6hzBQem.7AYvj8Q5aYnoyM7ojy9esFvdMhcxCj.LYKP2kiKmL1wfzMKHM1JJq0gWJPXfpjS35N.Q-- Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53006.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:53:46 BST Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:53:46 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-519908599-1177289626=:24674" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <424380.24674.qm@web53006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: SSP: POEM: Inseparable, Even Unto Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=RLdeLAWT1V6vgRnpEBQDtqSVgWn_ADHdneslxSvcC3KYTld-e0Ij --0-519908599-1177289626=:24674 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes, that's what I meant. :-) Thanks for the link! I can't wait to get to the library so I can check it out! :-D Cel Helyanwe Dawn Felagund wrote: Hi, Cel, Do you mean my ne'er-ending novel "Another Man's Cage" that Oshun was talking about? The second draft is going up all over the web; I'm at Chapter 39 this week (of 52 chapters) with a new chapter posted each week. The beginning is still rough (mechanically and stylistically), and despite swearing that two drafts was all I'm doing, it looks like there will be a third to fix these problems. *sigh* Recent Activity 1 New Members Visit Your Group SPONSORED LINKS Creative writing tip Creative writing school Creative writing camp Creative writing workshop Creative writing course Yahoo! News Adventure Beat Travel the world with Richard Bangs Yahoo! Movies Up for a movie? Check out showtimes and buy tickets Yahoo! TV Staying in tonight? Check Daily Picks & see what to watch. . --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. --0-519908599-1177289626=:24674 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes, that's what I meant. :-) Thanks for the link!  I can't wait to get to the library so I can check it out! :-D

Cel Helyanwe

Dawn Felagund wrote:
Hi, Cel,
Do you mean my ne'er-ending novel "Another Man's Cage" that Oshun was
talking about? The second draft is going up all over the web; I'm at
Chapter 39 this week (of 52 chapters) with a new chapter posted each
week. The beginning is still rough (mechanically and stylistically),
and despite swearing that two drafts was all I'm doing, it looks like
there will be a third to fix these problems. *sigh*
.


Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. --0-519908599-1177289626=:24674-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 950 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47262 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2007 01:30:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2007 01:30:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53007.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.37) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2007 01:30:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 66021 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Apr 2007 01:23:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: A4RfE3YVM1l1VIUFpewJMrRVfnyWIgfrG9KzyO_n6RMhE6Lnpj9k4bd21D3sxIhiaDHCYrSl_a2li.xjl.c1e2Q4S2i3vNApZlrFAtSBHIjWIrmeoUxIZnJFmy.Xrm3KwbGO4jC6kiq2tCo- Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53007.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:23:06 BST Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:23:06 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1163608043-1177291386=:64826" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <459024.64826.qm@web53007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=TRi3dRZKFzvAjVO_3aAXgobRbMpwFZGu59aq5GU_0Gi00B-4eInc --0-1163608043-1177291386=:64826 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On the other hand, Dior married an elf. His children were almost entirely elven. If you use the genetics we do now, they'd have far more elven traits than they would human. That *ought* to include life-span... *sigh* What I'd like to know is *why* did Tolkien have to make the default setting for a half-elf mortality. It makes very little sense to me. I can see saying "Ok, you've got this much time to make a choice and if you don't you're mortal," but why just make them mortal to begin with? Tolkien, *why* did you have to pull that one on us? *pouts* Setting that aside, Tolkien never actually tells us that Elured and Elurin died. He says that Maedhros never found any sign of them and they never again entered into the tales. Think of this -- if they had died, Maedhros would probably have at least found their remains. I believe that the Silm says they were 14 and 12 at the time. If Peredhyl grow up at the same rate as Edain, they would probably have known enough to be able to survive on their own. It would be perfectly within canon to say that they most likely survived at least until the Choice was in effect. Whether it applied to them is another issue, but... Cel Helyanwe rhapsody_the_bard wrote: Well, the thing is, Dior being mortal and all, after his time of waiting, he goes beyond Arda, so will his sons. I would like to see canon references where Dior gets such special permissions and his sons: he's simply mortal... mortal Luthien, mortal Beren. I never did a full character study of Dior however, so yeah, I am curious with what you can come up with. I know Dior is called half-elven, but that doesn't say he's immortal or has the choice that the line of Earendil & Elwing were granted. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. --0-1163608043-1177291386=:64826 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On the other hand, Dior married an elf.  His children were almost entirely elven.  If you use the genetics we do now, they'd have far more elven traits than they would human.  That *ought* to include life-span... *sigh*  What I'd like to know is *why* did Tolkien have to make the default setting for a half-elf mortality.  It makes very little sense to me.  I can see saying "Ok, you've got this much time to make a choice and if you don't you're mortal," but why just make them mortal to begin with?  Tolkien, *why* did you have to pull that one on us? *pouts*

Setting that aside, Tolkien never actually tells us that Elured and Elurin died.  He says that Maedhros never found any sign of them and they never again entered into the tales.  Think of this -- if they had died, Maedhros would probably have at least found their remains.  I believe that the Silm says they were 14 and 12 at the time.  If Peredhyl grow up at the same rate as Edain, they would probably have known enough to be able to survive on their own.  It would be perfectly within canon to say that they most likely survived at least until the Choice was in effect.  Whether it applied to them is another issue, but...

Cel Helyanwe

rhapsody_the_bard wrote:
Well, the thing is, Dior being mortal and all, after his time of
waiting, he goes beyond Arda, so will his sons. I would like to see
canon references where Dior gets such special permissions and his
sons: he's simply mortal... mortal Luthien, mortal Beren. I never did
a full character study of Dior however, so yeah, I am curious with
what you can come up with. I know Dior is called half-elven, but that
doesn't say he's immortal or has the choice that the line of Earendil
& Elwing were granted.



Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. --0-1163608043-1177291386=:64826-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 951 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77327 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2007 11:02:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2007 11:02:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2007 11:02:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Apr 2007 10:59:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Apr 2007 10:59:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:59:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <459024.64826.qm@web53007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=gA0EdV_wKnV8dwUht9Qo1QTxCgJTugdQ_YhOtZoWepDk-kQ4vyzCKFg X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: > > On the other hand, Dior married an elf. His childre= n were almost > entirely elven. If you use the genetics we do now, they'd = have far > more elven traits than they would human. That *ought* to includ= e > life-span... *sigh* What I'd like to know is *why* did Tolkien have > = to make the default setting for a half-elf mortality. It makes very > litt= le sense to me. I can see saying "Ok, you've got this much time > to make = a choice and if you don't you're mortal," but why just make > them mortal t= o begin with? Tolkien, *why* did you have to pull that > one on us? *pouts= * The choice was given to the off spring of Earendil & Elwing as a reward = for their sacrifices: Elwing diving from the tower with that Silmaril and l= eaving behind her kids (I mean as a mom, I could never have done that), Ear= endil risking everything to plead the cause of the two kindreds. Both will = never see their children again, unless they chose elvenkind and end up in M= andos or sailing West again. But they will never see Elros again since he c= hose for his father's kindred and also accepted and the gift of Er=FA. Don= 't forget, Death was Eru's gift here, a gift reserved for the Edain alone. = Apparently for all 'normal'elf-human unions, children from that mixture rec= eived Eru's gift (this really makes sense to me). I know it might sound lik= e a strange to us, I think most of us fear death that it hardly sounds like= a gift to us. But in Tolkien's verse it is. Look at Aragorn for example. = The moment he thought that his life had been great and all and chose his ho= ur to die. That is what it makes the the fate of Numenor so tragic, they we= re lied to and could not see the gift of Eru at all, instead they thought i= mmortality was the utmost thing, but what they didn't say is that comes wit= h a) no life after Arda is gone b) either you sail West or you will see ME = as you know falling into the hands of the younger races while in the future= you know you'll become part of nature (the fate of Thranduil's people in t= he end, this is in Unfinished Tales btw). The Edain will be in the new worl= d, they can choose (if not by violence or disease) the hour of their own de= ath if they understand the gift of Eru completely. The Numenoreans studied = death and had a fascination for it, but still they wanted immortality, that= 's just very tragic. Aragorn and Arwen understood and both chose for their = moment to die, its incredibly powerful. > Setting that aside, Tolkien neve= r actually tells us that Elured and > Elurin died. He says that Maedhros = never found any sign of them and > they never again entered into the tales.= Think of this -- if they > had died, Maedhros would probably have at leas= t found their remains. I have read several versions of how fan fic writer= s explored this: everything is possible. I can come up with several scenari= os. > I believe that the Silm says they were 14 and 12 at the time. I ne= ver saw their ages mentioned in the Silm (just checked). It says sons, Elur= =E9d elder Eluri=EDn younger, but how that works out, I have no idea, it ca= n mean anything if you ask me. > If Peredhyl grow up at the same rate as E= dain, they would probably > have known enough to be able to survive on the= ir own. It would be > perfectly within canon to say that they most likely= survived at > least until the Choice was in effect. Whether it applied t= o them is > another issue, but... That depends on what Celegorm's servants= did to them. They are not offspring of Earendil and Elwing (basically they= are Elwing's uncles if they survived), so there is no choice for them. It = is all about the family tree, everything that comes after Earendil and Elwi= ng get the unique gift to choose, everything above that not, except for the= solitary cases: Tuor's choice was only meant to him, so was Luthien's. Rh= apsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 952 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72162 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2007 19:18:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2007 19:18:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2007 19:18:35 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Apr 2007 19:18:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Apr 2007 19:18:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Apr 2007 19:18:10 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:18:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=K46MbUN2bvllnQ18So--_v4dY_kPROPduF7q1K7bDFMbAi_Mre65EQ X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > That depends on what Celegorm's servants did to them.= They are not > offspring of Earendil and Elwing (basically they are Elwing= 's uncles > if they survived), so there is no choice for them. It is all a= bout the > family tree, everything that comes after Earendil and Elwing ge= t the > unique gift to choose, everything above that not, except for the >= solitary cases: Tuor's choice was only meant to him, so was Luthien's. A= h, I see our disagreement, now. Tuor and Luthien each got unique choices,= that is true. And Earendil and Elwing's choice is inherited by their chi= ldren (until such a time as all their descendents are mortal). But Dior, = Elured and Elurin went to Mandos, and who knows what happened there? Tolk= ien suggested that there was a 'problem' of the half-elven that needed to = be resolved, and that Manw=EB's judgement took care of that for all remain= ing (living) half-elven people. But what about the dead ones? We know t= hat Manw=EB has the *right* to give them a unique judgement, as he has the= *right* to give one to Elwing. We also know that Eru can do whatever he = wants, as in the case of Tuor and Luthien. So there is opportunity for ch= oices...separate from the choices offered to E=E4rendil and Elwing. I hav= e never suggested that Elwing's choice applied to her brothers or father. = I have merely suggested that the fanon idea that they get a choice can be= written in such a way as not to contradict canon - all that has to happen= is for Manw=EB to pop up and offer one. I find it difficult to believe t= hat Tolkien would have the f=EBar of Dior and Nimloth sundered for all ete= rnity. Aegnor and Andreth, maybe, but not Dior and Nimloth. One possibil= ity is that Dior is allowed to 'linger' in Mandos indefinately, and Nimlot= h could refuse re-embodiment. This would be to not decide/ not resolve t= he issue. Pure fan-fiction, of course - but not inconsistent with what T= olkien wrote. I understand that the default is mortal, but when every re= lative they have, both before and after on the family tree, is given a cho= ice (of some sort), I have to suspect that they did not get the 'automatic= ' result without any thought or judgement from the Valar and/or Eru. Al= so, the issue of mortal/immortal has to do with fate, not lifespan or phys= ical characteristics. Elros chose to be mortal, but lived for 501 years. = Aragorn and Arwen's children were not any more long- lived than Aragorn wa= s (despite the fact that Arwen had lived for thousands of years). The phy= sical traits should follow standard genetics, so yes, Dior's children woul= d look about 3/4 elvish. (I'm assuming Melian *looked* like an elf, even i= f she wasn't one). Of course we don't know quite how that worked, because= the difference between an immortal body and a mortal one is probably fair= ly profound. But if we could 'study' it, we'd figure it out ;). ~ MithL= uin From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 953 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81456 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2007 20:06:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2007 20:06:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.56) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2007 20:06:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Apr 2007 20:03:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Apr 2007 20:03:12 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:03:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5-2688486994-4730547444=:7" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Fingolfin" Subject: Two RPG's Open!!! Silmarillioners Welcome! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=1nAbSChQs08_64g7bmhaXHAyI_d22MmZaDv_rXAkNF9D X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --5-2688486994-4730547444=:7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Openings for RPG Players We have openings for players in two Tolkien-based= RPGs. Mist and Shadows and World of Shadows Game information Mist & Sha= dows Mist takes place with Third Age characters, but there is no set timeli= ne or structured stories. There are openings for several elves, men, dwarve= s, hobbits, wizards, etc. If you join Mist, you can start or join into any = story lines that appeal to you. There is no connection between threads and = your character can play in multiple threads at the same time. If you're int= erested in joining, feel free to take a look at the public boards thread he= re: http://www.mistworldofshadows.larianelensar.net/index.php World of Sh= adows WoS takes place after the Ring War, and only First and Second Age Elv= es are involved. (We arranged it this way because Mist had the Third Agers)= . WoS is a structured game, where all the threads build back into a main st= ory. The main story is a mystery. The Valar have to send the elves back on = missions to root out evil in Middle Earth. The elves don't always know why = they are being sent out, they only know what they are supposed to retrieve.= (In one recently completed mission, the elves brought back one of the silm= arils; in another, they rescued Thranduil who had been held captive in ME w= ith some of his people). It's mainly thriller/action/adventure with a touch= of romance. We are just starting another round of missions and have openin= gs for several elves (off the top of my head I remember ...Finarfin, Elwing= , Earendil, some of Feanor's sons....) For more information, have a look at= the public boards thread here: http://www.mistworldofshadows.larianelensar= .net/index.php Both games are in one location, but they take place on dif= ferent forums. Both are board-based with no LJ or IM component required. Yo= u don't have to have any experience, we have 2 mods and an admin that are v= ery proactive and willing to help you get started. We ask only that you com= mit to posting once a week or let us know if you'll be gone, and to have fu= n! Please email Larian at larian@livejournal.com or me at jhfink@sbcglobal= .net or respond at the board by clicking on the links given above. It is a= lot of fun and the storylines are open, meaning that anyone can start one. = So give it a try. Thank you... --5-2688486994-4730547444=:7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Openings for RPG Players

We have ope= nings for players in two Tolkien-based RPGs.

Mist and Shadows= and World of Shadows

Game information

Mi= st & Shadows
Mist takes place with Third Age characters, but the= re is no set timeline or structured stories. There are openings for several= elves, men, dwarves, hobbits, wizards, etc. If you join Mist, you can star= t or join into any story lines that appeal to you. There is no connection b= etween threads and your character can play in multiple threads at the same = time. If you're interested in joining, feel free to take a look at the
p= ublic boards thread here: http://www.mistworldofshadows.larianelensar.net/i= ndex.php


World of Shadows
WoS takes place after the Ri= ng War, and only First and Second Age Elves are involved. (We arranged it t= his way because Mist had the Third Agers). WoS is a structured game, where = all the threads build back into a main story. The main story is a mystery. = The Valar have to send the elves back on missions to root out evil in Middl= e Earth. The elves don't always know why they are being sent out, they only= know what they are supposed to retrieve. (In one recently completed missio= n, the elves brought back one of the silmarils; in another, they rescued Th= randuil who had been held captive in ME with some of his people). It's main= ly thriller/action/adventure with a touch of romance. We are just starting = another round of missions and have openings for several elves (off the top = of my head I remember ...Finarfin, Elwing, Earendil, some of Feanor's sons.= ...) For more information, have a look at the
public boards thread here:= http://www.mistworldofshadows.larianelensar.net/index.php


Both = games are in one location, but they take place on different forums. Both ar= e board-based with no LJ or IM component required. You don't have to have a= ny experience, we have 2 mods and an admin that are very proactive and will= ing to help you get started. We ask only that you commit to posting once a = week or let us know if you'll be gone, and to have fun! Please  email = Larian at larian@livejournal.com or me at jhfink@sbcglobal.net or respond a= t the board by clicking on the links given above.

It is alot of fun = and the storylines are open, meaning that anyone can start one. So give it = a try.

Thank you... --5-2688486994-4730547444=:7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 954 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2657 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2007 00:55:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2007 00:55:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.32) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2007 00:55:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 60506 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Apr 2007 00:49:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: MtihDkwVM1l5zGfEjI5beOrImRErIQGPQwl7cjYwyxteToOhu6dUnxu1_ylltFsVIu6eU82NRQQrbBGDQdZA0v3ne1A3Ef_NZGDZCbe8qeCRj8URIWw- Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:49:06 BST Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:49:06 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2102023337-1177375746=:58916" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <484612.58916.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=a-NqUKsgLsH_p0UvokM5oZ0T2jOzrEAz0NTgn-7iyYfzQwIfSwTP --0-2102023337-1177375746=:58916 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The choice was given to the off spring of Earendil & Elwing as a reward for their sacrifices: Elwing diving from the tower with that Silmaril and leaving behind her kids (I mean as a mom, I could never have done that), Earendil risking everything to plead the cause of the two kindreds. Both will never see their children again, unless they chose elvenkind and end up in Mandos or sailing West again. But they will never see Elros again since he chose for his father's kindred and also accepted and the gift of Er�. Hmm... I hadn't thought of it in terms of it being a reward. Indeed, sometimes it almost seems more like a curse than a blessing. *thinks of Elros and Elrond, Arwen and Elrond* Don't forget, Death was Eru's gift here, a gift reserved for the Edain alone. True -- although I agree with Finrod on this one -- that it was originally meant to be that the Edain would take their bodies with them when they left Arda. Apparently for all 'normal'elf-human unions, children from that mixture received Eru's gift (this really makes sense to me). I know it might sound like a strange to us, I think most of us fear death that it hardly sounds like a gift to us. But in Tolkien's verse it is. Hmm... Although to me it's not death itself that frightens me, but the process of dying, which is usually painful. That and that death means seperation from the person who died for as long as I live. It doesn't sound entirely strange to me to think of it that way. I know I wouldn't want to live in an imperfect world and never be able to leave it. The reason I wish Dior and his sons were counted as immortal is that I'd like to be able see them with their family in Valinor, so they could meet their nephews/grandchildren. Look at Aragorn for example. The moment he thought that his life had been great and all and chose his hour to die. That is what it makes the the fate of Numenor so tragic, they were lied to and could not see the gift of Eru at all, instead they thought immortality was the utmost thing, but what they didn't say is that comes with a) no life after Arda is gone b) either you sail West or you will see ME as you know falling into the hands of the younger races while in the future you know you'll become part of nature (the fate of Thranduil's people in the end, this is in Unfinished Tales btw). Very true. Most Edain had no concept of life only as long as Arda's existence and then their own existence completely ending. No wonder it was foretold that the elves, as well as the Valar, would one day envy the Edain! The Edain will be in the new world, they can choose (if not by violence or disease) the hour of their own death if they understand the gift of Eru completely. The Numenoreans studied death and had a fascination for it, but still they wanted immortality, that's just very tragic. Aragorn and Arwen understood and both chose for their moment to die, its incredibly powerful. Again, this is also something about which I agree with Finrod -- he agreed with what Andreth told him about those of the "Old Hope" -- that Eru would enter Arda and begin the process of righting the wrongs Morgoth had done to both Races so that the Eldar would be given entrance into Arda Remade through the Edain. And Finrod's reasoning is very convincing. Yes, the Numenoreans studied death, but not to understand it -- only to try to learn how to prevent it. It is tragic. They didn't understand that death was meant to be the doorway to wonders greater than they could imagine. Aragorn's and Arwen's deaths are indeed powerful moments. Especially Aragorn's. He knows that he's lived a full life and that if he clung to life any longer, it would merely be a curse to him and his family. He knows how to relinquish one gift and take hold of the next. I think that prepared Arwen to accept that her time had also come. I have read several versions of how fan fic writers explored this: everything is possible. I can come up with several scenarios. I haven't actually read any fics based on this. I know someone who was writing one, though. I've had some of my own ideas, as well. Would you mind sending me some of those? The idea has always fascinated me. I never saw their ages mentioned in the Silm (just checked). It says sons, Elur�d elder Eluri�n younger, but how that works out, I have no idea, it can mean anything if you ask me. It's in the timeline, I think. It gives the years of their births and then the year of the sack of Doriath. IIRC, it works out that they were 14 and 12, but I could be wrong. I haven't read that in ages. That depends on what Celegorm's servants did to them. They are not offspring of Earendil and Elwing (basically they are Elwing's uncles if they survived), so there is no choice for them. It is all about the family tree, everything that comes after Earendil and Elwing get the unique gift to choose, everything above that not, except for the solitary cases: Tuor's choice was only meant to him, so was Luthien's. True, although I vaguely recall that the wording said the half-elven in one place and when quoting the Choice said Earendil and Elwing. I guess that was what initially made me think that the Choice was for all the peredhyl. Cel Helyanwe --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. --0-2102023337-1177375746=:58916 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The choice was given to the off spring of Earendil & Elwing as a
reward for their sacrifices: Elwing diving from the tower with that
Silmaril and leaving behind her kids (I mean as a mom, I could never
have done that), Earendil risking everything to plead the cause of the
two kindreds. Both will never see their children again, unless they
chose elvenkind and end up in Mandos or sailing West again. But they
will never see Elros again since he chose for his father's kindred and
also accepted and the gift of Er�.

Hmm...  I hadn't thought of it in terms of it being a reward.  Indeed, sometimes it almost seems more like a curse than a blessing. *thinks of Elros and Elrond, Arwen and Elrond*

Don't forget, Death was Eru's gift here, a gift reserved for the Edain
alone.

True -- although I agree with Finrod on this one -- that it was originally meant to be that the Edain would take their bodies with them when they left Arda.

Apparently for all 'normal'elf-human unions, children from that
mixture received Eru's gift (this really makes sense to me). I know it
might sound like a strange to us, I think most of us fear death that
it hardly sounds like a gift to us. But in Tolkien's verse it is.

Hmm...  Although to me it's not death itself that frightens me, but the process of dying, which is usually painful.  That and that death means seperation from the person who died for as long as I live.  It doesn't sound entirely strange to me to think of it that way.  I know I wouldn't want to live in an imperfect world and never be able to leave it.

The reason I wish Dior and his sons were counted as immortal is that I'd like to be able see them with their family in Valinor, so they could meet their nephews/grandchildren.

Look at Aragorn for example. The moment he thought that his life had
been great and all and chose his hour to die. That is what it makes
the the fate of Numenor so tragic, they were lied to and could not see
the gift of Eru at all, instead they thought immortality was the
utmost thing, but what they didn't say is that comes with a) no life
after Arda is gone b) either you sail West or you will see ME as you
know falling into the hands of the younger races while in the future
you know you'll become part of nature (the fate of Thranduil's people
in the end, this is in Unfinished Tales btw).

Very true.  Most Edain had no concept of life only as long as Arda's existence and then their own existence completely ending.  No wonder it was foretold that the elves, as well as the Valar, would one day envy the Edain!

The Edain will be in the new world, they can choose (if not by
violence or disease) the hour of their own death if they understand
the gift of Eru completely. The Numenoreans studied death and
had a fascination for it, but still they wanted immortality, that's just
very tragic. Aragorn and Arwen understood and both chose for their
moment to die, its incredibly powerful.

Again, this is also something about which I agree with Finrod -- he agreed with what Andreth told him about those of the "Old Hope" -- that Eru would enter Arda and begin the process of righting the wrongs Morgoth had done to both Races so that the Eldar would be given entrance into Arda Remade through the Edain.  And Finrod's reasoning is very convincing.  Yes, the Numenoreans studied death, but not to understand it -- only to try to learn how to prevent it.  It is tragic.  They didn't understand that death was meant to be the doorway to wonders greater than they could imagine.  Aragorn's and Arwen's deaths are indeed powerful moments.  Especially Aragorn's.  He knows that he's lived a full life and that if he clung to life any longer, it would merely be a curse to him and his family.  He knows how to relinquish one gift and take hold of the next.  I think that prepared Arwen to accept that her time had also come.

I have read several versions of how fan fic writers explored this:
everything is possible. I can come up with several scenarios.

I haven't actually read any fics based on this.  I know someone who was writing one, though.  I've had some of my own ideas, as well.  Would you mind sending me some of those?  The idea has always fascinated me.

I never saw their ages mentioned in the Silm (just checked). It says
sons, Elur�d elder Eluri�n younger, but how that works out, I have no
idea, it can mean anything if you ask me.

It's in the timeline, I think.  It gives the years of their births and then the year of the sack of Doriath.  IIRC, it works out that they were 14 and 12, but I could be wrong.  I haven't read that in ages.

That depends on what Celegorm's servants did to them. They are not
offspring of Earendil and Elwing (basically they are Elwing's uncles
if they survived), so there is no choice for them. It is all about the
family tree, everything that comes after Earendil and Elwing get the
unique gift to choose, everything above that not, except for the
solitary cases: Tuor's choice was only meant to him, so was Luthien's.

True, although I vaguely recall that the wording said the half-elven in one place and when quoting the Choice said Earendil and Elwing.  I guess that was what initially made me think that the Choice was for all the peredhyl.

Cel Helyanwe

Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. --0-2102023337-1177375746=:58916-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 955 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68916 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2007 01:13:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2007 01:13:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.35) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2007 01:13:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 89918 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Apr 2007 01:13:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: PqB1wi8VM1mHXPHpex_cDPvhMkfyV.gUvXCGCfb53._hibO87Cny4KYt42sgyKwod3LvOH.CxS0z1yuXVy88oVX23p9acs4JvT_M42OSS.9htBUSCEUNUkb94oGwXjru0I5SOeCFRd8zSahWzTRiOZvA Received: from [206.251.14.85] by web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:13:37 BST Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:13:37 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-940980125-1177377217=:88670" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <310105.88670.qm@web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=1Rjq6C-_9JDZZmMNGKmdyhemMgbxu5Y0uw64QzXRnNrsebhEI17B --0-940980125-1177377217=:88670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ah, I see our disagreement, now. Tuor and Luthien each got unique choices, that is true. And Earendil and Elwing's choice is inherited by their children (until such a time as all their descendents are mortal). Actually, if IIRC, Elrond and Elros would still have had a choice, even if Earendil and Elwing had chosen mortality. I think the wording said Earendil, Elwing, and their sons... But Dior, Elured and Elurin went to Mandos, and who knows what happened there? Tolkien suggested that there was a 'problem' of the half-elven that needed to be resolved, and that Manw�'s judgement took care of that for all remaining (living) half-elven people. But what about the dead ones? We know that Manw� has the *right* to give them a unique judgement, as he has the *right* to give one to Elwing. We also know that Eru can do whatever he wants, as in the case of Tuor and Luthien. So there is opportunity for choices... separate from the choices offered to E�rendil and Elwing. I have never suggested that Elwing's choice applied to her brothers or father. I have merely suggested that the fanon idea that they get a choice can be written in such a way as not to contradict canon - all that has to happen is for Manw� to pop up and offer one. I find it difficult to believe that Tolkien would have the f�ar of Dior and Nimloth sundered for all eternity. I totally agree with you here. Or perhaps they may even have left Arda and as they left, Eru himself gave them a choice whether to remain in the Timeless Halls or to return to Arda? Or perhaps something different, but similar? I also find it hard to believe that Tolkien would permenently seperate Dior and Nimloth. Aegnor and Andreth, maybe, but not Dior and Nimloth. Aegnor and Andreth weren't married. I think that plays into the situation a lot. Andreth loved Aegnor. That was clear. Aegnor loved Andreth but did not have the courage to stay with her as she grew old and frail, which he knew he would be committed to do if he married her. Dior and Nimloth were married. One possibility is that Dior is allowed to 'linger' in Mandos indefinitely, and Nimloth could refuse re-embodiment. This would be to not decide/not resolve the issue. Hmm... I don't know that that would work so well, either. Didn't Tolkien say that mortals were allowed to linger in Mandos for a short time, but eventually *had* to leave and the Valar were not allowed to change that? Unless you're suggesting that Eru made an exception to that rule? Pure fan-fiction, of course - but not inconsistent with what Tolkien wrote. I understand that the default is mortal, but when every relative they have, both before and after on the family tree, is given a choice (of some sort), I have to suspect that they did not get the 'automatic' result without any thought or judgement from the Valar and/or Eru. Good point, there. I agree with you here. Not that I'm basing it on canon, but I don't like the idea that everyone else at least had the option and they didn't. Also, the issue of mortal/immortal has to do with fate, not lifespan or physical characteristics. Quite true. After all, I vaguely remember Luthien being told that she and Beren could spend all the years of Arda together in Aman, but then they would be seperated to their different fates. Elros chose to be mortal, but lived for 501 years. Aragorn and Arwen's children were not any more long-lived than Aragorn was (despite the fact that Arwen had lived for thousands of years). The physical traits should follow standard genetics, so yes, Dior's children would look about 3/4 elvish. (I'm assuming Melian *looked* like an elf, even if she wasn't one). Of course we don't know quite how that worked, because the difference between an immortal body and a mortal one is probably fairly profound. But if we could 'study' it, we'd figure it out ;). Hmm... Now I'm starting to picture an immortal descendant of Elrond's that looks comletely mortal -- it's genetically possible if one of Elladan's descendants would marry one of Elrohir's descendants. That could create some uncomfortable situations. At least Tuor would be around to encourage the elfling! *sigh* I wish we *could* study it! It would be quite fascinating! Cel Helyanwe --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. --0-940980125-1177377217=:88670 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ah, I see our disagreement, now. Tuor and Luthien each got unique
choices, that is true. And Earendil and Elwing's choice is
inherited by their children (until such a time as all their
descendents are mortal).

Actually, if IIRC, Elrond and Elros would still have had a choice, even if Earendil and Elwing had chosen mortality.  I think the wording said Earendil, Elwing, and their sons...

But Dior, Elured and Elurin went to Mandos, and who knows what
happened there? Tolkien suggested that there was a 'problem' of
the half-elven that needed to be resolved, and that Manw�'s
judgement took care of that for all remaining (living) half-elven people.
But what about the dead ones? We know that Manw� has the *right*
to give them a unique judgement, as he has the *right* to give one to
Elwing. We also know that Eru can do whatever he wants, as in the
case of Tuor and Luthien. So there is opportunity for choices...
separate from the choices offered to E�rendil and Elwing. I have never
suggested that Elwing's choice applied to her brothers or father. I have
merely suggested that the fanon idea that they get a choice can be
written in such a way as not to contradict canon - all that has to happen
is for Manw� to pop up and offer one. I find it difficult to believe that
Tolkien would have the f�ar of Dior and Nimloth sundered for all eternity.

I totally agree with you here.  Or perhaps they may even have left Arda and as they left, Eru himself gave them a choice whether to remain in the Timeless Halls or to return to Arda?  Or perhaps something different, but similar?  I also find it hard to believe that Tolkien would permenently seperate Dior and Nimloth.

Aegnor and Andreth, maybe, but not Dior and Nimloth.

Aegnor and Andreth weren't married.  I think that plays into the situation a lot.  Andreth loved Aegnor.  That was clear.  Aegnor loved Andreth but did not have the courage to stay with her as she grew old and frail, which he knew he would be committed to do if he married her.  Dior and Nimloth were married.

One possibility is that Dior is allowed to 'linger' in Mandos indefinitely,
and Nimloth could refuse re-embodiment. This would be to not
decide/not resolve the issue.

Hmm...  I don't know that that would work so well, either.  Didn't Tolkien say that mortals were allowed to linger in Mandos for a short time, but eventually *had* to leave and the Valar were not allowed to change that?  Unless you're suggesting that Eru made an exception to that rule?

Pure fan-fiction, of course - but not inconsistent with what Tolkien
wrote. I understand that the default is mortal, but when every
relative they have, both before and after on the family tree, is
given a choice (of some sort), I have to suspect that they did not
get the 'automatic' result without any thought or judgement from the
Valar and/or Eru.

Good point, there.  I agree with you here.  Not that I'm basing it on canon, but I don't like the idea that everyone else at least had the option and they didn't.

Also, the issue of mortal/immortal has to do with fate, not lifespan
or physical characteristics.

Quite true.  After all, I vaguely remember Luthien  being told that she and Beren could spend all the years of Arda together in Aman, but then they would be seperated to their different fates.

Elros chose to be mortal, but lived for 501 years. Aragorn and
Arwen's children were not any more long-lived than Aragorn was
(despite the fact that Arwen had lived for thousands of years). The
physical traits should follow standard genetics, so yes, Dior's
children would look about 3/4 elvish. (I'm assuming Melian *looked*
like an elf, even if she wasn't one). Of course we don't know quite
how that worked, because the difference between an immortal body
and a mortal one is probably fairly profound. But if we could 'study' it,
we'd figure it out ;).

Hmm...  Now I'm starting to picture an immortal descendant of Elrond's that looks comletely mortal -- it's genetically possible if one of Elladan's descendants would marry one of Elrohir's descendants.  That could create some uncomfortable situations.  At least Tuor would be around to encourage the elfling! *sigh* I wish we *could* study it!  It would be quite fascinating!

Cel Helyanwe

Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. --0-940980125-1177377217=:88670-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 956 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98265 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2007 10:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2007 10:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.23) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2007 10:03:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2007 10:02:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2007 10:02:38 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:02:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <484612.58916.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=whhwCv3791AXK_LKcz_BGH9cqIjnTpl4EUXLoxJ2O4Q0HsrMh0XXwLw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Celebrian Helyanwe wrote: > >> Don't forget, Death was Eru's gift here, a gift res= erved for the >> Edainalone. > > True -- although I agree with Finrod on = this one -- that it was > originally meant to be that the Edain would take= their bodies with > them when they left Arda. Yes, but I am not sure wha= t taking their bodies with them adds to the discussion... >> Apparently f= or all 'normal'elf-human unions, children from that >> mixture received Eru= 's gift (this really makes sense to me). I know >> it might sound like a st= range to us, I think most of us fear death >> that it hardly sounds like a= gift to us. But in Tolkien's verse it >> is. > > Hmm... Although to me = it's not death itself that frightens me, but > the process of dying, which= is usually painful. That and that death > means seperation from the perso= n who died for as long as I live. It > doesn't sound entirely strange to m= e to think of it that way. I > know I wouldn't want to live in an imperfe= ct world and never be able > to leave it. Oh yes, I can understand that co= mpletely. It takes a different mindset to understand what Tolkien intended.= > The reason I wish Dior and his sons were counted as immortal is that > = I'd like to be able see them with their family in Valinor, so they > could= meet their nephews/grandchildren. Yeah, but that isn't going to happen, y= es the races are coming to Mandos, but not through the same halls, every ra= ce has a different hall of waiting. Elwing will see Nimloth again when she = leaves her tower or Nimloth can visit her. That would be nice to read. The = thing is, why doesn't Dior want to be reunited with his parents?Why is your= idea so fixed on a reunion on Valinor? Why only with Nimloth's family? Whe= n he died, he did not know of Elwing's later choice in life you see, for al= l he knows she will die as a mortal and joins him beyond Arda. So even if y= ou muse on what will happen when Mandos judges them, Dior can only make a d= ecision on what he knows. That is *if* Eru wants him to choose. It is hard = to tell what he knows once he's dead. You as a reader knows what happens la= ter on in the story, but Dior as a character does not and that makes a huge= difference in storytelling. Also, I know there are plenty if Caranthir/Ha= leth shippers in this group who all have explored why even an elf would cho= se to love a mortal woman, knowing that one day Haleth will die and that Ca= ranthir has to life with the fact that he has to live on and will never see= her again (although Choices of Spirits is a must read). >> Look at Arago= rn for example. The moment he thought that his life >> had been great and = all and chose his hour to die. That is what it >> makes the the fate of Nu= menor so tragic, they were lied to and >> could not see the gift of Eru at= all, instead they thought >> immortality was the utmost thing, but what t= hey didn't say is that >> comes with a) no life after Arda is gone b) eith= er you sail West or >> you will see ME as you know falling into the hands o= f the younger >> races while in the future you know you'll become part of = nature >>(the fate of Thranduil's people in the end, this is in Unfinished= >> Tales btw). > > Very true. Most Edain had no concept of life only as= long as Arda's > existence and then their own existence completely ending.= No wonder > it was foretold that the elves, as well as the Valar, would o= ne day > envy the Edain! Well, but even the elves knew that their fate wa= s tied to Arda. There weren't much stories told about Mandos and those who = were released from Mandos did not speak of what happened there. So even the= elves and Finrod doesn't know exactly what happens, when he speaks with An= dreth he tries to explain why Aegnor did not want to cleave onto her and wa= nted to know about how the Edain perceived death. The beautiful thing about= this chapter in Morgoth's Ring is, imho, how Andreth speaks so naturally a= bout generations and death. It gives the reader and Finrod somesort of comf= ort because he lost mortal friends and is wondering. >> The Edain will be= in the new world, they can choose (if not by >> violence or disease) the h= our of their own death if they understand >> the gift of Eru completely. Th= e Numenoreans studied death and >> had a fascination for it, but still they= wanted immortality, that's >> just very tragic. Aragorn and Arwen understo= od and both chose for >> their moment to die, its incredibly powerful. > = > Again, this is also something about which I agree with Finrod -- he > ag= reed with what Andreth told him about those of the "Old Hope" -- > that Er= u would enter Arda and begin the process of righting the > wrongs Morgoth = had done to both Races so that the Eldar would be < given entrance into Ar= da Remade through the Edain. Arda remade is only intended for the Edain a= s far as I know. In the music of the Ainur, the first born are only tied to= the current music & Arda. > And Finrod's reasoning is very convincing. = He wishes for it, but he is not sure it will happen. In how he speaks you c= an sense his desire to be included in this fate, very powerful. > Yes, the= Numenoreans studied death, but not to understand it -- only > to try to le= arn how to prevent it. It is tragic. They didn't > understand that death= was meant to be the doorway to wonders greater > than they could imagine. = Aragorn's and Arwen's deaths are indeed > powerful moments. Especially A= ragorn's. He knows that he's lived a > full life and that if he clung to l= ife any longer, it would merely > be a curse to him and his family. He kn= ows how to relinquish one > gift and take hold of the next. I think that = prepared Arwen to > accept that her time had also come. Oh yeah, wow that= thought gives me the absolute shivers. >> I have read several versions of= how fan fic writers explored this: >> everything is possible. I can come u= p with several scenarios. > > I haven't actually read any fics based on th= is. I know someone who > was writing one, though. I've had some of my own= ideas, as well. > Would you mind sending me some of those? The idea has= always > fascinated me. I know Tinni is working on a fic with Elured (wh= ere he survives..) let me see The Return http://www.fanfiction.net/s/31448= 96/1/ Gemini http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1854122/1/ I though Sophia Silfa= ery had a story about them as well (because I betad it a while ago), but I = can't find it currently.. it's about Celeborn finding them. Not about the = twins but about Celeborn and Nimloth talking by her: Memory Eternal http://= www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter_view.cfm?stid=3D5297&SPOrdinal=3D1 I= n the Bleak Midwinter - Space Weavil http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterli= stview.asp?SID=3D4260 The Dark by Cold Like Fire http://www.henneth-annun.= net/stories/chapter.cfm?stid=3D4212 Very cute, but I am not sure if the au= thor continued this one Between Twilight and Dawn by Miss Aranel http://www= .storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D516 >> I never saw their ages= mentioned in the Silm (just checked). It >> says sons, Elur=E9d elder Elu= ri=EDn younger, but how that works out, I >> have no idea, it can mean any= thing if you ask me. > > It's in the timeline, I think. It gives the year= s of their births > and then the year of the sack of Doriath. IIRC, it wo= rks out that > they were 14 and 12, but I could be wrong. I haven't read = that in > ages. Well there is no timeline in the Silmarillion. :) I know = there are five versions of a timeline in the tale of the years in HOME. 49= 7 FA Dior weds Nimloth 500 FA Birth of the twin sons Elr=FAn and Eld=FAn 50= 3 Elwing born 506-507 2nd Kinslaying page 340-352 The War of the Jewels, H= OME then a page further the 2nd knislaying is set at 511 or 509 There is = a geanology a few pages back which sets the kinslaying at 506, birthdates a= t 492 and 495 (Elwing remains the same at 503), but the notes say this: On= the much changed date of the Second Kinslaying (here given as 511), in whi= ch Dior Thingol's heir was slain in fighting with the Feanorians and his y= oung sons Eldun and Elrun were taken and abandoned to starve in the forest,= see The Tale of Years, pp. 345 ff.; it is plainly a mere inadvertence that= in the same table the date of their death is given as 506, five years befo= re that of Dior. In (later) sources Eldun and Elrun are twin brothers, bo= rn in the year 500 (see p. 257 and note 16 on p. 300; p. 349)- So that= family tree was abandoned later on. See above where in the Tale of the yea= rs the year 500 is given. The timeline goes from version A to B to C to D t= o D2... So you tell me what to stick to then. That is the pain of making on= e timeline for the First Age, there are too many versions. For example when= the War of Wrath ended, even that is many years apart. No I spend a morni= ng going through many volumes of HOME, gained a handful of bunnies... My li= sts of questions to ask to the professor is growing LOL >> That depends on= what Celegorm's servants did to them. They are not >> offspring of Earendi= l and Elwing (basically they are Elwing's >> uncles if they survived), so = there is no choice for them. It is all >> about the family tree, everything= that comes after Earendil and >> Elwing get the unique gift to choose, ev= erything above that not, >> except for the solitary cases: Tuor's choice w= as only meant to him, >> so was Luthien's. > > True, although I vaguely re= call that the wording said the half-elven > in one place and when quoting t= he Choice said Earendil and Elwing. > I guess that was what initially mad= e me think that the Choice was > for all the peredhyl. No only for that l= ine, only Elrond is called a peredhil, iirc. It's a title bestowed on him a= s Lord of Rivendell. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 957 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48334 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2007 10:27:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2007 10:27:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2007 10:27:27 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2007 10:21:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2007 10:21:59 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:21:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Names of Eldar wives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=3Yp6FzR7M5YgfZUhI4eO4KU4yAE8scXyOlrG7vufIxja2Y9GlMUJiGQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "marielprosser" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhap= sody_the_bard" > wrote: > >> That depends on what Celegorm'= s servants did to them. They are not >> offspring of Earendil and Elwing (b= asically they are Elwing's >> uncles if they survived), so there is no cho= ice for them. It is all >> about the family tree, everything that comes aft= er Earendil and >> Elwing get the unique gift to choose, everything above = that not, >> except for the solitary cases: Tuor's choice was only meant t= o him, >> so was Luthien's. > > Ah, I see our disagreement, now. Tuor and= Luthien each got unique > choices, that is true. And Earendil and Elwing= 's choice is > inherited by their children (until such a time as all their= > descendents are mortal). But Dior, Elured and Elurin went to > Mandos= , and who knows what happened there? See my other entry (and disagreement= ?). Dior can only make a decision on what he knows at that moment. He knows= , just as his sons that Elwing is mortal and she isn't there. So he knows s= he lives (otherwise she would have shown up there). I think it's sometimes = difficult to stand still at the knowlegde a character has compared to that = of a reader. Sure as a reader you can sit and go like (if it was written an= d Dior gets the choice): choose elvenkind, choose elvenkind (and shake thos= e pom poms). But I can just as much imagine that Dior longs to be with his = parents again after all what happened and still choses for the Edain fate a= nd accepts Eru's gift. To me there is so much more hope and promise at that= moment for Dior to go beyond Arda with his children or still tie his fate = to the current arda, marred as it is and die at the end of Arda, which will= happen, it's inevitable. > Tolkien suggested that there was a 'problem' o= f the half-elven that > needed to be resolved, and that Manw=EB's judgemen= t took care of that > for all remaining (living) half-elven people. And th= ose born after that date. Mithrellas off spring is still pretty much mortal= , poor her. > But what about the dead ones? We know that Manw=EB has the= *right* > to give them a unique judgement, as he has the *right* to give = one > to Elwing. We also know that Eru can do whatever he wants, as in >= the case of Tuor and Luthien. So there is opportunity for > choices...se= parate from the choices offered to E=E4rendil and Elwing. That depends on= what the character knows at that moment at that specific time frame. It wa= s not to Manwe nor Mandos to offer half-elves that choice. I think a few po= sts back I gave the citation that the Valar cannot change what Eru intended= for them. I can't imagine that with every half-elf that pops up in the hal= ls of waiting for men, is taken aside and gets the question prompted, that = bit goes against what the Valar are allowed to do. Even their hands are bou= nd. > I have never suggested that Elwing's choice applied to her brothers = > or father. I have merely suggested that the fanon idea that they > get= a choice can be written in such a way as not to contradict > canon - all= that has to happen is for Manw=EB to pop up and offer one. Well he can't.= Unless they have done something very incredibly unique and have performed = great deeds. I personally don't see them. > I find it difficult to believ= e that Tolkien would have the f=EBar of > Dior and Nimloth sundered for al= l eternity. Aegnor and Andreth, > maybe, but not Dior and Nimloth. Dior = knew what would happen when he wedded Nimloth: he had his father as a fine = example that Beren still chose for love despite that Luthien was immortal. = It comes with love that you are willing to take that risk. > One possibili= ty is that Dior is allowed to 'linger' in Mandos > indefinately, and Nimlo= th could refuse re-embodiment. This would be > to not decide/ not resolve = the issue. Well no. He'd linger in a different halls of waiting than Nim= loth. That would be very cruel. > Pure fan-fiction, of course - but not i= nconsistent with what Tolkien > wrote. I understand that the default is m= ortal, but when every > relative they have, both before and after on the f= amily tree, is > given a choice (of some sort), I have to suspect that the= y did not > get the 'automatic' result without any thought or judgement fr= om the > Valar and/or Eru. Well it is fanon based on what canon says. I= t's still immensely fun to play around with. > Also, the issue of mortal/= immortal has to do with fate, not lifespan > or physical characteristics. = Elros chose to be mortal, but lived > for 501 years. Aragorn and Arwen's= children were not any more long- > lived than Aragorn was (despite the fac= t that Arwen had lived for > thousands of years). The physical traits sho= uld follow standard > genetics, so yes, Dior's children would look about 3= /4 elvish. (I'm > assuming Melian *looked* like an elf, even if she wasn't= one). I think it would be... errr *thinks* Luthien was half Maiar/half El= f, so what Dior would have gotten was 1/2 mortal, 1/4 Maiar 1/4 elf turned = mortal, so his kids would have hmz.. Is anyone good at math? This is giving= me a headache already. Technically Dior is just mortal, but ... that would= make them 1/8 mortal, 1/8 Maiar, 3/4 elf.. or not? I shouldn't do this LOL= > course we don't know quite how that worked, because the difference > b= etween an immortal body and a mortal one is probably fairly > profound. B= ut if we could 'study' it, we'd figure it out ;). By all means go ahead! = Rhapsody (by now knows more too much about this branch of the house of Beor= she ever could have imagined) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 958 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53369 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2007 20:54:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2007 20:54:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.225) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2007 20:54:14 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2007 20:51:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2007 20:51:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2007 20:51:35 -0000 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:51:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Greetings from another new member... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=uLsCUJbcYiBozWpQyDayUO6MCZ0UAMc9RE43HRQNyHzf_Wi6LPIpQW4s X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 Seeing as how I now sport an article in the reference section of the SWG, = I figured I might as well join the Yahoo group. My more public nom de 'Ne= t is Doc Bushwell. I'm a longtime Tolkien fan, and first read The Silmar= illion and Unfinished Tales in, oh, like the Years of the Lamps (late 1970= 's), and have only recently stumbled upon the wild and woolly world that i= s the Tolkien fanfic-i-verse. As such, I'm really a naif when it comes to= the nuances of fan fic so please, be gentle. :^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 959 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88445 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2007 21:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2007 21:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2007 21:55:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2007 21:55:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2007 21:55:24 -0000 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:55:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Greetings from another new member... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=HBv1R6Zti3NmhKzOj0Wa8bbYW87Om2k1rotcaw1oG9y5fctE8sQkkw X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser Yay! Someone newer to this than me :) Just teasing. I wasn't even born = when the Silmarillion was published. But the world of fanfic is very fun = and interesting - welcome, and feel free to jump in with any thoughts/comm= ents. ~ MithLuin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pan= demonium_213" wrote: > > Seeing as how I now sport an ar= ticle in the reference section of the > SWG, I figured I might as well joi= n the Yahoo group. My more public > nom de 'Net is Doc Bushwell. > > I= 'm a longtime Tolkien fan, and first read The Silmarillion and > Unfinishe= d Tales in, oh, like the Years of the Lamps (late 1970's), and > have onl= y recently stumbled upon the wild and woolly world that is the > Tolkien = fanfic-i-verse. As such, I'm really a naif when it comes to > the nuances= of fan fic so please, be gentle. :^) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 960 Return-Path: X-Sender: alikat@mindless.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75534 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2007 21:53:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2007 21:53:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.67) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2007 21:53:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.8.90]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id B128918001A1 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:53:18 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.62) by wfilter2.us4.outblaze.com; 29 Apr 2007 21:53:18 -0000 Received: by ws1-7.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 812B71158CC; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:53:18 +0000 (GMT) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_----------=_1177883598156440" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:53:18 -0500 Importance: high Received: from [70.152.130.242] by ws1-7.us4.outblaze.com with http for alikat@mindless.com; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:53:18 -0500 X-Originating-Server: ws1-7.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20070429215318.812B71158CC@ws1-7.us4.outblaze.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Ali Kat AKA Kathye" Subject: First Age AU RPG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=295585100; y=mGp7dC17qxFO1gnsdNV-qlFadFYZz8OGfvr5qBuNpQnvo102jA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --_----------=_1177883598156440-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 961 Return-Path: X-Sender: alikat@mindless.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47613 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2007 21:58:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2007 21:58:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.9) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2007 21:58:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2007 21:58:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2007 21:58:24 -0000 Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:58:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "alassante7" Subject: Re: Greetings from another new member... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=295585100; y=hAtLwyGRrbGGU86YFRlrWkOPWNz4eHlO-wG0LilPrxJhUOrywA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 Welcome to all the new people. Sorry I didn't say it earlier :( I had my em= ails set up wrong. *waves hi* I'm AL...the scatter-brained Noldork --- = In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > Seeing as how I now sport an article in the reference sect= ion of the > SWG, I figured I might as well join the Yahoo group. My more= public > nom de 'Net is Doc Bushwell. > > I'm a longtime Tolkien fan, = and first read The Silmarillion and > Unfinished Tales in, oh, like the Ye= ars of the Lamps (late 1970's), and > have only recently stumbled upon the= wild and woolly world that is the > Tolkien fanfic-i-verse. As such, I'm= really a naif when it comes to > the nuances of fan fic so please, be gen= tle. :^) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 962 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82519 invoked from network); 1 May 2007 03:28:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2007 03:28:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc16.comcast.net) (206.18.177.56) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2007 03:28:49 -0000 Received: from amailcenter10.comcast.net ([204.127.225.110]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070501025730b1600ho1h1e>; Tue, 1 May 2007 02:57:30 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter10.comcast.net; Tue, 01 May 2007 02:57:30 +0000 To: henneth_annun@yahoogroups.com (Henneth Annun), SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 02:57:30 +0000 Message-Id: <050120070257.18058.4636AC9900087BA30000468A22165258560B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: HoMe Summary--The Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=QeymMPOqD6nCKCfzxSwFnJd18BCT8ftk3vWmyDwQaFTTZQkwrfJx X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Read it in a prettier format here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/historyofmiddleearth/thecomingofthevalar.php The History of Middle-earth, Volume I: The Book of Lost Tales I The Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor Summary --- The Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor proceeds uninterrupted from the previous The Music of the Ainur (and also, then, The Cottage of Lost Play) and describes in detail the creation of Valinor by the Valar. Readers will recall that The Music of the Ainur left off with the Noldorin sage R�mil and the mariner Eriol in conversation in a garden near the Cottage of Lost Play. Eriol's interest in the Valar, Il�vatar, and the creation of the world had been keen, and R�mil was eager to tell all that he knew of these subjects. Eriol's curiosity, however, remained far from sated. R�mil, however, would go no further at the moment for a very simple reason: It was time for breakfast. He departed and sent a meal out to Eriol, and Eriol spent the rest of the day wandering the garden. That night, however, in the room of the Tale-fire, music gave way to further stories of the Valar, once again told by R�mil. R�mil's tale began with the entry of Manw� and Varda into the world. They flew through the three levels of air with all intentions of arriving first and were angered to find that not only had Melko exceeded them, but the haste of his arrival had caused upheaval in the earth and the oceans. Next of the Valar to arrive were Ulmo with Salmar and Aul� with Pal�rien, and close behind them came many more of the Valar: Oss�, �nen, Tulkas, L�rien, Mandos, V�na, Nienna, and Orom�. Arriving late were the brother and sister Makar and Me�ss�, and R�mil suggested that they would have best never entered the world at all, as they delighted in Melko's chaos and were among the Ainur who followed his divergent theme in the Music. Last to arrive was the youngest Vala Omar, singing as came. With the Valar now gathered in the world, Manw� asked how the world would be permitted to flourish according to Il�vatar's designs if Melko continued to cause uproar. Tulkas and Mandos were sent to find him, being as Melko feared them more than any others among the Valar, and he was brought before Manw� to answer for his deeds. He made the excuse that he had simply been enjoying the new world and promised that he would do nothing against Manw�'s lordship or the lordships of the other Valar. It was Melko's belief that each Vala should live alone where s/he was most pleased and should not interfere with the domains of the other Valar. Some of the Valar trusted Melko's words; others continued to doubt. Now, R�mil paused to explain the geography of the early world. Beginning in the east were the Great Lands, where the Men now dwell. Moving westward, one crossed the Great Sea, then reached the Magic Isles. There, one entered the Shadowy Seas, which were in fact a part of the Great Seas, before reaching the next set of islands, the Twilit Isles. The Shadowy Seas ended at Eruman (also called Arvalin), the southern portion of the western lands that contained Valinor. Continuing to move westward, at the extreme western edge of the world, one ends at the Outer Ocean (Vai) where Ulmo dwells. The geography of the western continent can be confusing to those more familiar with the geography presented in the published Silmarillion. Eruman and Arvalin are synonymous and are located to the south of Valinor. Because the curve of the coastline is different in The Coming of the Valar than The Silmarillion, there are no "wastes" north of Valinor. In The Silmarillion, this northern region is named Araman, which is etymologically related to Eruman of The Coming of the Valar and can present some confusion. Collectively, in The Coming of the Valar, the Twilit Isles, Eruman, and Valinor are called the Outer Lands. Elsewhere in the Tales as well as in The Silmarillion, the Outer Lands refers to the lands east of the Great Sea that will later be called Middle-earth. Returning to the council of the Valar, Aul� and Pal�rien, who were the most bothered by the way Melko had hurt the world, advised that the Valar dwell together rather than apart, fearing that Melko would take advantage of them singly, being more powerful than all save Manw�. The other Valar agreed and began to look for a place to build their home. Melko, naturally, was not in agreement; he had already begun construction on his halls Utumna in the north. At this time, Varda had made few stars and light travelled in the air. It was difficult for the Valar to see as they explored, and Aul� and Varda gathered light from the air to fashion to large lamps to give light to the world. Aul� asked Melko to build two pillars at the extreme north and south of the world to hold the lamps, and Melko complied, telling Aul� that they were of an imperishable substance. In fact, the pillars were made of ice. The Valar were standing upon the Twilit Isles and gazing westward when the lamps melted the ice upon which they stood and fell. The melting ice expanded the seas and drowned many islands. The light that poured forth from the lamps pooled upon the earth and created deserts. This brought the first period of night, and the Valar were angry at Melko for the harm he had done. Oss� and his servants dragged the island on which the Valar stood to the western lands, and the Valar decided to build their home upon Arvalin. Gathering rocks from the plain of Arvalin, they raised the Mountains of Valinor, and Aul� constructed the tall mountain Taniquetil at Manw�'s bidding. Aul�, however, lamented the lack of light by which he worked. Ulmo collected the light that had spilled from the lamps onto the earth into two large cauldrons that Aul� had constructed. The cauldrons were called Kulullin and Silindrin. Upon the plain of Valinor, the Valar dug two pits. In the first, Ulmo place seven golden rocks from the sea bed and a shard of one of the lamps. Pal�rien covered it with earth, and V�na danced and sang upon it, watering it with streams of golden light from Kulullin. In the second pit was placed three large pearls and a small star, and it was covered with foam and bits of earth, and L�rien and his servants whispered to it while watering it with silver light from Silindrin. At the last, Pal�rien put enchantments on both places encouraging growth. >From these places, the Two Trees arose, first the golden tree Laurelin. Twelve hours later, the silver tree, called Silpion, arose as well. From the trees, light emanated, alternating between dim and very bright, and they had grown so that when one tree was bright, the other was dim. Pal�rien instructed the Valar that the trees must be gently watered with light from the two cauldrons so that they could continue to produce light. V�na gave the duty to her maiden Urwen to water Laurelin, and L�rien trusted Silmo to water Silpion. Aul� now had adequate light to complete his tasks. For each of the Valar, he built a suitable home, and The Coming of the Valar describes each in precise and fantastical detail. Most of the Valar had their homes in Valmar, the city of the Valar built upon the plain, and these included Aul� and Pal�rien, Oss�, Tulkas and V�na, Orom�, and Salmar and Omar. Manw� and Varda lived atop Taniquetil, and Ulmo dwelt in the Outer Ocean and came infrequently to Valinor. Likewise, L�rien dwelt in Eruman in the south. Vef�ntur (Mandos) and Nienna and the siblings Makar and Me�ss� lived in the north of the land. The material concerning the halls of Vef�ntur and Nienna is some of the most intriguing in The Coming of the Valar. In this section, Elven "death" is established, some details of which remain constant through to the published Silmarillion, and a bizarre version of the death of Men is also recounted. The region known as Mandos is a series of underground halls built by Aul� at the foot of the Mountains of Valinor in the north. Vef�ntur and Nienna--who are spouses in this version--each have separate halls where Elves and Men, respectively, go after death. Vef�ntur's halls are called V�, and Elves who are slain or die of grief go here to be judged by Vef�ntur and await rebirth through their children. The concept Elves departing to a "hall of awaiting" overseen by the Vala Mandos (here, commonly called Vef�ntur) persists through to the published Silmarillion, as does the idea that Elves are able to die only from being slain or of grief. The notion that Elves are "reborn" as the children of their children endures for some time as well but was rejected in the final material from which The Silmarillion was published. The second part of Mandos is the halls of Nienna, called Fui. The character of Nienna in the Tales is a much darker and morose version of the Vala who, in The Silmarillion, "brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom," teaches "pity, and endurance in hope," and is expressly named as one of Gandalf's mentors (Valaquenta). Fui Nienna of the Tales sends out clouds of grief and sorrow around the world, but perhaps most importantly, she sits in judgment of Men after death. Much as Elves go to V� after death, so the spirits of men go to Fui, and The Coming of the Valar describes several possible fates that stand in stark contrast to what J.R.R. Tolkien later describes as the singular fate of Men after death--indeed, what is described within the Tales themselves: to leave the world altogether. The possible fates of Men are very similar to Christian beliefs about the afterlife: Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory. Some Men are judged by Nienna and remain with her in Mandos; others are driven forth to Melko, to bear his torments in Angamandi. Most are put aboard the black ship Morni� that sails along the coast, past Valinor, and leaves its passengers to await the Great End upon the plains of Arvalin. A few of these are retrieved by the herald of the Valar Nornor�, and they go to dwell in joy with the Valar in Valmar. Along with the parallels between this account and Christian belief, there is also etymological evidence to suggest that the names of certain regions in Valinor evolved from words for Heaven and Purgatory. But that all Men remain in the world--much like the Elves--is extraordinary considering that the crux of the fate of Men will become their ability to leave the world after death; indeed, in The Music of the Ainur, this idea is already beginning to develop. In his commentary, Christopher Tolkien is at a loss to explain how this account of the afterlife of Men came to be written after The Music of the Ainur already hinted at a very different fate that endures through to the published Silmarillion, and so the detailed and sometimes frightening depiction of the afterlife of Men is intriguing but remains an oddity. R�mil's tale concludes with an account of the halls of Makar and Me�ss�, the late-coming brother and sister who alone of the other Valar enjoy the chaos that Melko creates. Makar and Me�ss� do not appear in versions of the story beyond the Tales. R�mil ends there as it grows late, and his audience--including Eriol--retires to bed. The Coming of the Valar is notable in that the names and much of the detail about the Valar remains constant throughout the various versions of the tale. Some names undergo minor change (e.g., �nen to Uinen), while some of the Valar appearing here will disappear after this version (Omar, Makar, and Me�ss�). Still more Valar will be added in later versions (e.g., Vair� and Est�). The Coming of the Valar also hints at the later division of the Ainur into Valar and Maiar with its distinction between the Elves and the "pixie element." While the Elves are part of the world and bound to it, the "pixies" who arrived with and often serve the Valar, came into existence before and outside of the world. The Coming of the Valar tells how these beings were often confused with the Eldar; a similar passage in an early version of The Silmarillion says the same of the Maiar, so it seems quite possible that the "pixie element" in the Tales is a precursor to the Maiar. One can also see the germ of the final story here, especially in the presence of the Lamps as the first concentrated light for the world and the growth of the Two Trees. In this version, however, the Isle of Almaren where the Valar first dwell does not yet exist. Also, the war with Melko that marks the arrival of the Valar into the world has not yet evolved; instead, Melko's malice is not exposed until after he tricks Aul� by building pillars for the Lamps out of ice. Likewise, Melko never "forsook Arda" as he did in The Silmarillion ("Of the Beginning of Days"); instead, he chooses to dwell apart from the others and begins work upon his halls Utumna. The concept that the Two Trees give light in the form of sap or dew remains present through to The Silmarillion, though here, it is more explicitly expressed. The specific Valar responsible for the growth of the Trees is quite different here, with the roles of Ulmo, V�na, and L�rien later decreasing and Nienna becoming more important. Few of the details in The Coming of the Valar stand as contradictions to the published Silmarillion, though The Coming of the Valar includes a wealth of exquisite details that will later be eliminated. With regards to the role of The Book of Lost Tales in the evolution of the mythology as a whole and the level of detail present here but not elsewhere, Christopher Tolkien says in his commentary: "This is not to say that all such imagining was definitively abandoned: as I have said in the Foreword, the Lost Tales were followed by a version so compressed as to be no more than a resume (as was its purpose), and the later development of the mythology proceeded from that -- a process of re-expansion." --- For readers familiar with The Silmarillion, a list of name equivalencies between the two versions is often helpful. * Pal�rien, the wife of Aul�, later becomes Yavanna. * �nen later becomes Uinen, the wife of Oss� called "the Lady of the Seas" in The Silmarillion. * Silpion here is the name of the silver tree that will later become Telperion (though Silpion is retained as one of the Tree's names). * Vef�ntur is a name commonly used to identify the Vala Mandos in this section. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 963 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26775 invoked from network); 1 May 2007 05:55:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2007 05:55:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.105) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2007 05:55:23 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n10.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2007 05:55:22 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2007 05:55:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2007 05:55:22 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 05:55:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Posting to the community LJ X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=VhvPOPOcTHpQk1yz43g_9sVgOD2dyEgMq_z7DVHXnX3qKGnJBVKjmhixEQ X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked I wanted to post something on the community LJ but I don't have access. Wh= o do I talk to about getting access? My LJ name is Tinni (very original I = know :-). From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 964 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79897 invoked from network); 1 May 2007 15:57:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2007 15:57:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc14.comcast.net) (204.127.225.94) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2007 15:57:38 -0000 Received: from amailcenter07.comcast.net ([204.127.225.107]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070501155441b140088e8me>; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:54:41 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter07.comcast.net; Tue, 01 May 2007 15:54:40 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 15:54:40 +0000 Message-Id: <050120071554.19236.463762C00003F4D600004B2422165514060B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: FanLib Archive FYI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=g1jjykM-TzYNaDKZnN-kVMGZqI33De86WIYxjd-CJCFoFTe0uxGM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, It has come to the attention of some moderator-types around the Tolkien community that a fan fiction archive called "FanLib" has been soliciting members from other Tolkien sites. This is not itself particularly problematic, but there is a portion of their Terms of Service (TOS) that has raised eyebrows among a few of us. >From their TOS (http://www.fanlib.com/termsOfUse.do): You retain all of Your ownership rights in Your Submissions. However, by submitting the Submissions to FanLib, You hereby grant FanLib a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Submissions in connection with the Website. (V.1) I am not a lawyer, but having published fiction before and being familiar with how publication rights are handled, this sounds a little heavy-handed to me for a fanfic archive. Personally, I don't hand over all rights to my work without good reason, and I've never seen a fanfic site include such a caveat in their TOS before. Of course, I'm not telling you not to use the site. It is up to each author to decide what s/he is comfortable with in terms of rights to and use of his/her fiction. :) But FanLib has a looong TOS full of legal mumbo-jumbo, and the consensus among most group mods is that people are sharing their work there without necessarily being aware of the sorts of rights that they are granting the archive in doing so. If I was signing up for the site, I probably would have missed the line above as well and assumed full control over my stories on that site. And especially since the archive is approaching and soliciting members of the Tolkien community, we felt that you should be aware of this to make an informed decision about posting work there. Thanks to Alassante for the heads up on this. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 965 Return-Path: X-Sender: ford_of_bruinen@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45728 invoked from network); 1 May 2007 16:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2007 16:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web23212.mail.ird.yahoo.com) (217.146.189.67) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2007 16:23:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 74168 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2007 15:51:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: KjORHncVM1mCthcZvg6jinWcRqReOTN7urERYJzBbcmEQgJk9DjDnaitxgXRYYN168dflOeiL74V2Ey3LR3u3h6mi_rQhTM14LHkRbkEF1po2EKTA4fjYE8- Received: from [86.132.4.175] by web23212.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 16:51:01 BST Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:51:01 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1022982338-1178034661=:74030" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <865115.74030.qm@web23212.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Uli ." Subject: Re:Posting to the community LJ X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=186403428; y=DJpRqqydI24JpqINxyXg3uwIuUuj9cdDS0xdDTiRJGMlAKaqY2lLfcFx X-Yahoo-Profile: ford_of_bruinen --0-1022982338-1178034661=:74030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Tinni and welcome to the group :) I have taken a look at the LJ group and sent you an invite to join as I think that is the problem. Once you have joined the community on LJ as well there should be no problems in posting, I think :) Of course it is possible that Jenni and Dawn beat me to it and managed to sort it out already. I am still playing catchup on emails after a week away. Anything else I can do to help let me know. Uli --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Tryit now. --0-1022982338-1178034661=:74030 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Tinni  and welcome to the group :)

I have taken a look at the LJ group and sent you an invite to join as I think that is the problem. Once you have joined the community on LJ as well there should be no problems in posting, I think :)
 
Of course it is possible that Jenni and Dawn beat me to it and managed to sort it out already. I am still playing catchup on emails after a week away.
 
Anything else I can do to help let me know.
 
Uli

Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. --0-1022982338-1178034661=:74030-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 966 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61680 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 00:11:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 00:11:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 00:11:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 94678 invoked by uid 60001); 2 May 2007 00:11:00 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: OrQ0NDMVM1nnfGSQfNBRu.gJ9nfVqrCmfT0BUZEEe0h6NoUp46E8XvHwMVRKww04VTz4g5v0U759roxdchTPKMgbfG78q8wF4w3Sctw57e9E.hsdolLNR1NqNxrVEVfyRGEjcAmw499yhL4- Received: from [70.157.67.132] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 17:10:59 PDT Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 17:10:59 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <050120071554.19236.463762C00003F4D600004B2422165514060B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1522876547-1178064659=:93969" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <14421.93969.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] FanLib Archive FYI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=LAd-3LjhpS6e8lAAuRdZeChd9BTuN9Msk3QhOjaQs4WQ7HO5kQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1522876547-1178064659=:93969 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I joined and thankfully Gandalf's Apprentice warned me. I never read TOS if its longer than a page lol DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: Hi, all, It has come to the attention of some moderator-types around the Tolkien community that a fan fiction archive called "FanLib" has been soliciting members from other Tolkien sites. This is not itself particularly problematic, but there is a portion of their Terms of Service (TOS) that has raised eyebrows among a few of us. From their TOS (http://www.fanlib.com/termsOfUse.do): You retain all of Your ownership rights in Your Submissions. However, by submitting the Submissions to FanLib, You hereby grant FanLib a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Submissions in connection with the Website. (V.1) I am not a lawyer, but having published fiction before and being familiar with how publication rights are handled, this sounds a little heavy-handed to me for a fanfic archive. Personally, I don't hand over all rights to my work without good reason, and I've never seen a fanfic site include such a caveat in their TOS before. Of course, I'm not telling you not to use the site. It is up to each author to decide what s/he is comfortable with in terms of rights to and use of his/her fiction. :) But FanLib has a looong TOS full of legal mumbo-jumbo, and the consensus among most group mods is that people are sharing their work there without necessarily being aware of the sorts of rights that they are granting the archive in doing so. If I was signing up for the site, I probably would have missed the line above as well and assumed full control over my stories on that site. And especially since the archive is approaching and soliciting members of the Tolkien community, we felt that you should be aware of this to make an informed decision about posting work there. Thanks to Alassante for the heads up on this. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ You're so clueless that if you dressed in a clue skin, doused yourself in clue musk, and did the clue dance in the middle of a field of horny clues at the height of clue mating season, you still wouldn't have a clue. (Rhaps let me steal this quote cause she's cool like that ) --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-1522876547-1178064659=:93969 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit  I joined and thankfully Gandalf's Apprentice warned me. I never read TOS if its longer than a page lol

DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote:
Hi, all,
It has come to the attention of some moderator-types around the Tolkien community that a fan fiction archive called "FanLib" has been soliciting members from other Tolkien sites. This is not itself particularly problematic, but there is a portion of their Terms of Service (TOS) that has raised eyebrows among a few of us.

From their TOS (http://www.fanlib.com/termsOfUse.do):

You retain all of Your ownership rights in Your Submissions. However, by submitting the Submissions to FanLib, You hereby grant FanLib a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Submissions in connection with the Website. (V.1)

I am not a lawyer, but having published fiction before and being familiar with how publication rights are handled, this sounds a little heavy-handed to me for a fanfic archive. Personally, I don't hand over all rights to my work without good reason, and I've never seen a fanfic site include such a caveat in their TOS before.

Of course, I'm not telling you not to use the site. It is up to each author to decide what s/he is comfortable with in terms of rights to and use of his/her fiction. :) But FanLib has a looong TOS full of legal mumbo-jumbo, and the consensus among most group mods is that people are sharing their work there without necessarily being aware of the sorts of rights that they are granting the archive in doing so. If I was signing up for the site, I probably would have missed the line above as well and assumed full control over my stories on that site. And especially since the archive is approaching and soliciting members of the Tolkien community, we felt that you should be aware of this to make an informed decision about posting work there.

Thanks to Alassante for the heads up on this.

Best regards,
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
~oOo~



You're so clueless that if you dressed in a clue skin, doused yourself in clue musk, and did the clue dance in the middle of a field of horny clues at the height of clue mating season, you still wouldn't have a clue. (Rhaps let me steal this quote cause she's cool like that )

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-1522876547-1178064659=:93969-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 967 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13605 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 01:37:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 01:37:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc15.comcast.net) (206.18.177.55) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 01:37:17 -0000 Received: from amailcenter06.comcast.net ([204.127.225.106]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070502013103b1500sl4ple>; Wed, 2 May 2007 01:31:03 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter06.comcast.net; Wed, 02 May 2007 01:31:02 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 01:31:02 +0000 Message-Id: <050220070131.10877.4637E9D10002CDC700002A7D22165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: May 2007 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=43Kwx0NydJLR-mtt7UNJb1RCYhCPzgaC12nBZM8qgpF5NmKGQ2iN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Read a prettier version here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php CHALLENGES In honor of The Children of H�rin being released last month, this month's challenges are inspired by events and themes from the new book. ***"You Can't Go Home Again"*** "At last worn by haste and the long road (for forty leagues and more had he journeyed without rest) he came with the first ice of winter to the pools of Ivrin, where before he had been healed. But they were now but a frozen mire, and he could drink there no more. Thus he came hardly by the passes of Dor-l�min, through bitter snows from the north, and found again the land of his childhood. Bare and bleak it was; and Morwen was gone. Her house stood empty, broken and cold; and no living thing dwelt nigh." -The Silmarillion, "Of T�rin" What would happen if one of Tolkien's characters returned to a beloved home after a long absence? This challenge asks authors to pursue that very question. The return may be canonical--such as T�rin's return to Dor-l�min in the quote--or alternate universe, such as F�anor's return to Tirion after many ages in the halls of Mandos. What and whom might the character encounter? What has changed? How has the character changed? ***The Soft Underbelly*** It is said that all dragons have a weakness despite their huge size and heavily armored skin. It is their soft underbelly, which in Glaurung�s case, was vulnerable to the sword of T�rin. The Silmarillion is often thought to be such great fodder for stories because its characters are flawed and possess obvious weaknesses. This challenge asks authors to explore a weakness of any of Tolkien�s characters in The Silmarillion and show how that character was felled by this innate frailty of his or hers. For example, King Thingol of Doriath was obsessed with the Silmarils of F�anor, and eventually, they caused his death. Likewise, Celegorm�s quickness to anger contributed to his becoming the first of F�anor�s sons to die. ***The Quote of the Month Challenge*** The Quote of the Month challenge asks you to write based on the themes and thoughts the quote inspires or about the event in which the quote occurred. You may write in any format--poem, story, essay, or drabble--with any characters, genre, or rating. "Through the deep dusk M�m led them past the pool, where now faint stars were mirrored among the shadows of the birch-boughs. At the mouth of the cave he turned and bowed to T�rin. 'Enter, lord!' he said: 'Bar-en-Danwedh, the House of Ransom. For so it shall be called.' -The Children of H�rin, "Of M�m the Dwarf" ***Character of the Month: Morwen*** In the new book The Children of H�rin, Morwen's character is one of the most poignantly described. Proud to a fault, she nonetheless represents one of Tolkien's strongest female characters, and her courage is undeniable. Ensnared in the curse set upon her husband, the mother of T�rin and Ni�nor is one of the most fearsome of the Edain, and with the new book, Tolkien fans have been granted a rare glimpse of new material about her character. This month, we invite our members to share everything Morwen: their favorite stories about her, their thoughts on her, and their own writing and artwork. ------ Want more challenges? Check out our complete challenge listing for almost two years' worth of challenges to inspire your writing! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/challenges/bydate.php Have an idea for a challenge? Some of our most popular challenges have been created by you, the members of SWG! If you have a plotbunny gnawing at your ankle, a favorite quote, or a favorite character that you think might inspire others as well, please send an email to moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org and we'll try to include your challenge in our next newsletter! MAY NEWS ***New Ratings System*** In preparation for debuting our archive, the SWG moderators have discussed the ratings system that we would like to use. Our old system was simple but inflexible, offering a mere two options to authors for rating their stories: General and Adult. In discussion, we determined that keeping the system simple was of the essence, but authors needed more choices in providing information to readers about their stories. The new system offers three options for rating stories: General, Teens, and Adult. The new rating system is described in detail in the Ratings Guide. Please be aware that the new system will apply not only on the eventual archive but also our LiveJournal community. Please rate your stories accordingly so that readers may have a consistent manner by which to judge and choose the stories that they are comfortable in reading. Ratings Guide: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/ratings.php ***Help Wanted*** As SWG expands, we're always in need of help from our members. In fact, much of what we've accomplished so far (and will accomplish in the near future!) is thanks to the hard work and talents of our volunteers. If you want to help out with SWG, we're always happy to have you! Check out our new volunteer page for an up-to-date listing of where we need the most help. Volunteer Page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/volunteer.php ***We Need Essays!*** One of the features that we hope to develop on SWG is an extensive Reference Library. But we need references to make this possible! We know that many of our members have written (or are writing) research articles and essays based on Tolkien's world and the craft of writing, and we'd love to publish your work here! For more information, please check out our submission guidelines; if you have something to share that doesn't seem to quite fit what we're asking for, please feel free to query anyway. All submissions, questions, and queries should be sent to moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org. Submission Guidelines: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/submityourwork.php ***New to the Website*** May saw the addition of a lot of new material to the website. Thanks to Rhapsody, we now have a newsletter archive where members can view past news items and challenges. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletterarchive.php Our Reference library added four new resources. "The Perfect Girl," by Nikara, looks at the fan fiction phenomenon of "Mary Sue" and how readers and reviewers react to her. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/theperfectgirl.php Doc Bushwell looks at how The Silmarillion portrays science and technology in "The Tolkienian War on Science." http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/thetolkienianwaronscience.php And Dawn Felagund's Silmarillion chapter summaries and History of Middle-earth summaries are now archived in the library as well. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/silmsummaries/home.php http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/historyofmiddleearth/home.php And our LiveJournal userinfo page got a much-needed update and face-lift. http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/profile -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=dawn_felagund Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 968 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24308 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 01:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 01:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.21) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 01:54:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 01:54:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 01:54:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 01:54:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <865115.74030.qm@web23212.mail.ird.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re:Posting to the community LJ X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=cY3XtONfZlZN7flKgQhqzenpsFqHqTy_iNLo97LGMaVj-LYUfWLXq4_tkw X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Thanks. Dawn did contact me and told me how to post to the journal. I didn= 't know you could hit the blue pencil to post since in all the previous co= mmunities I have been part of I had to choose the journal I wanted to post= in from a drop down menu in the post page. I think for that to happen I h= ave to be part of the community (which I am not yet) but in the mean time = I can post! So yeah! --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Uli= ." wrote: > > Hi Tinni and welcome to the group :)= > > I have taken a look at the LJ group and sent you an invite to join a= s I think that is the problem. Once you have joined the community on LJ as= well there should be no problems in posting, I think :) > > Of cours= e it is possible that Jenni and Dawn beat me to it and managed to sort it = out already. I am still playing catchup on emails after a week away. > = > Anything else I can do to help let me know. > > Uli > > = > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? So= meone out there knows the answer. Tryit now. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 969 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58430 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 01:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 01:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11e.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.71) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 01:59:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 01:59:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 01:59:00 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 01:58:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Something I wrote: By the sea shore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=9JU4ErtkZqTLaF9fNEC0I6IM9davaLW8bac5FBaIiPLu8_MgM9JI7__gQg X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked I just posted a short piece on the community LJ. I have been wanting to wr= ite something to put to the group and see what people think. Here is what = I have. I don't know if the story is going any where or even if I want for= it to go somewhere. But I figured I'll put it out there and see what peop= le's first reactions are. http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguil= d/96467.html Also, thanks Dawn for telling me how to post to the communit= y journal. The blue pencil thing worked. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 970 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63627 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 11:21:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 11:21:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.104) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 11:21:24 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n10.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 11:21:22 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 11:21:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 11:21:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 11:21:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <050120071554.19236.463762C00003F4D600004B2422165514060B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: FanLib Archive FYI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=NOHS-jP2bZpZmJVpVp2m9J0pCDleLaqFDZ0NCmpcrnA-553eE1buaG4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > Hi, all, > It has come to the attention of some moderator-types around th= e > Tolkien community that a fan fiction archive called "FanLib" has been = > soliciting members from other Tolkien sites. This is not itself > partic= ularly problematic, but there is a portion of their Terms of > Service (TO= S) that has raised eyebrows among a few of us. Yeah, I know this was disc= ussed a while back on an Aragorn group, one of the LOTRFF mods gave us a wa= rning and we observed it from afar because we concluded it looked a bit fis= hy. I do know that when I became a member of FanLib, that bit wasn't in the= TOS at that moment, so it's always a good idea to keep track of a TOS for = archives and services you sign up for. I've been ill and still am, so I was= only able to delete my material two days back... It was kinda silent in th= e Silmarillion section there btw ;) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 971 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53447 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 12:58:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 12:58:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.254) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 12:58:15 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 12:53:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 12:53:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 12:53:18 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 12:53:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <050120071554.19236.463762C00003F4D600004B2422165514060B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: FanLib Archive FYI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=1zSI-_Xqr_nmUpwkK3ByAB8dv0Yqz2gY03Z6buJjNLSaqKit_517jsFK X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: >= > "You retain all of Your ownership rights in Your Submissions. However, = by submitting the Submissions to FanLib, You hereby grant FanLib a worldwi= de, non-exclusive, royalty- free and transferable license to use, reproduce= , distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Submis= sions in connection with the Website. (V.1)" > > I am not a lawyer, but ha= ving published fiction before and being familiar with how publication righ= ts are handled, this sounds a little heavy-handed to me for a fanfic archi= ve. Personally, I don't hand over all rights to my work without good reason= , and I've never seen a fanfic site include such a caveat in their TOS bef= ore. Likewise, I'm in no position to offer a legal opinion, but that won't= stop me from yammering. :^) I agree that this is a bizarre TOS. I sign= ed a contract with SEED which gives them exclusive first publication rights= ,* and non-exclusive rights for various other stuff. In turn, they pay me= a token, I assure them that my work is _original_, and promise not to def= ame anyone - OK, so I skirt the edges there. Why would FanLib set up such= a TOS for work that by its very nature cannot be copyrighted? The "non-e= xclusive" clause softens it a little, but the "prepare derivative works of= " clause is especially weird. What the heck does that mean? FanLib can gr= ab a fanfic and morph it to something else? *They allow me to "cross-post= " for a maximum of 4 times a week, thus allowing a nice bit of flexibility= . From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 972 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92740 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 13:59:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 13:59:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 13:59:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 13:59:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 13:59:00 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 13:58:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Something I wrote: By the sea shore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=vVUoimCrFpAXOk_rzjE10L_VUVTluy4CbiKoaIUV5YSkqre4LxViLA X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser Nicely done, Tinni! I like the idea you've introduced very much, but thi= s does sound like a Prologue - I hope you do go somewhere with it! I am a= ssuming that lost-Daeron found the twins and kept them alive? Maglor is r= eally very broken here - I hope to see him healed, in time. And the idea = of the singing-contest introduces just enough humour to keep it from being= unmitigated angst. If you aren't sure where to go with this, maybe you = could get a beta to bounce ideas off of. It sometimes helps to have a sec= ond opinion ;). ~ MithLuin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup= s.com, "Tinni" wrote: > > I just posted a short pie= ce on the community LJ. I have been wanting to > write something to put t= o the group and see what people think. Here is > what I have. I don't kno= w if the story is going any where or even if I > want for it to go somewh= ere. But I figured I'll put it out there and > see what people's first re= actions are. > > > http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/96467= .html > > > Also, thanks Dawn for telling me how to post to the community= journal. > The blue pencil thing worked. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 973 Return-Path: X-Sender: DAWNFELAGUND@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72331 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 14:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 14:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc16.comcast.net) (206.18.177.56) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 14:39:14 -0000 Received: from amailcenter04.comcast.net ([204.127.225.104]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070502142252b1600ho5j7e>; Wed, 2 May 2007 14:22:52 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter04.comcast.net; Wed, 02 May 2007 14:22:50 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 14:22:50 +0000 Message-Id: <050220071422.27605.46389EBA0005FBC500006BD52216549976BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: REFXTkZFTEFHVU5EQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: DAWNFELAGUND@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: FanLib Archive FYI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=IZSa4aBp0zpstHXROTwu6R9lDuS5utX6fVnZNsZQCI50oi6uGYlO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" > Likewise, I'm in no position to offer a legal opinion, but that won't stop me > from yammering. :^) *snerk* This must be why we get along so well ... :^D > there. Why would FanLib set up such a TOS for work that by its very nature > cannot be > copyrighted? The "non-exclusive" clause softens it a little, but the "prepare > derivative > works of" clause is especially weird. What the heck does that mean? FanLib can > grab a > fanfic and morph it to something else? I found the "derivative work" clause odd as well. Perhaps they intend to illustrate certain fanfics? That's the only "derivative work" that I can think of that makes any sense for a fanfic archive. The "transferable license" also bugged me. Transferable to whom? Other websites that may want to buy the use of my work? No, I'll gladly control that decision myself, thank you. The funny thing is that I've always been very liberal about letting people use my work. People who want to do illustrations or write stories based off of details in my stories ... I always grant permission. But the fact that the permissions remain _mine_ to give is comforting. And I am so liberal because its only other fans using it; no one's making money off of my efforts. Call me paranoid, but I have this image of this site using its most popular stories to draw in more visitors, to get more advertising dollars or paid memberships (if they eventually offer those) or site donations. It seems like it's going to be a big site, so likely, someone is hoping to make some dough off of it. (It's not like smaller archives where the owner _loses_ money in hosting fees every year, for example.) And the idea of giving someone rights to my work without compensation so that that person can make money ... nah, that doesn't sit right with me. You mentioned SEED's policy ... that's pretty much what I've seen in small literary markets. Most buy a version of first rights or one-time rights; I've only once seen a literary magazine that sought ALL rights (and I dropped that one like a hot potato!) The most recent magazine I worked for sought one-time and anthology rights; we didn't pay either. :^D The understanding seems to be that if you're not going to pay an author, then you'd better not go asking for rights that let you make a profit off of their work. The good thing is that it seems that by removing work from the site, the site loses its rights to the work. The section after the one I quoted seems to me to say that (though I do get hopelessly tangled in legalese ...) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 974 Return-Path: X-Sender: DAWNFELAGUND@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46763 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 14:46:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 14:46:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc11.comcast.net) (206.18.177.51) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 14:46:28 -0000 Received: from amailcenter04.comcast.net ([204.127.225.104]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070502143349b1100kbo3le>; Wed, 2 May 2007 14:33:49 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter04.comcast.net; Wed, 02 May 2007 14:33:49 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 14:33:49 +0000 Message-Id: <050220071433.6871.4638A14C000F0AF100001AD72216549976BBB2AAB9BEB4BAB0B2A9BEBB@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: REFXTkZFTEFHVU5EQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: DAWNFELAGUND@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:Posting to the community LJ X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=NFEHZq7uhaJcvAyaiR4Z-iNzKKmLfARyNyjP9yAI0ko-P6kfg0vb X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "Tinni" > I didn't know you could hit the blue pencil to post since in all the > previous communities I have been part of I had to choose the journal > I wanted to post in from a drop down menu in the post page. I was kind of late in discovering the "blue pencil trick" too ... from a mod's perspective, it's so much easier to explain that to a new LJ user than how to open a new journal page, select the community, et cetera. :) Just an FYI for people who are members here but not on LJ ... all you need to post to the silwritersguild community is a free LJ account. You do not need to be a member, as Tinni's experience suggests. :) I did that intentionally when creating the community, knowing that not everyone who writes Silmfic is interested enough in The Silmarillion to join a group about it yet may want to share their work. So far, this has worked just fine, i.e., we haven't gotten any spam or abuse from non-members taking advantage of the unrestricted access to posting. I really hope that we can keep it this way. Only time will tell. :) Since my directions on how to post went just to Tinni: 1) Visit our LJ community profile page: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/profile 2) There is a small toolbar at the top of the page with lots of different icons. One icon is a blue pencil. Click that; it will open a journal page that posts directly to silwriterguild. And that's it! Of course, you must have an LJ account and must be logged in for this to work. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ -------------- Original message ---------------------- I think > for that to happen I have to be part of the community (which I am not > yet) but in the mean time I can post! So yeah! > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Uli ." > wrote: > > > > Hi Tinni and welcome to the group :) > > > > I have taken a look at the LJ group and sent you an invite to join > as I think that is the problem. Once you have joined the community on > LJ as well there should be no problems in posting, I think :) > > > > Of course it is possible that Jenni and Dawn beat me to it and > managed to sort it out already. I am still playing catchup on emails > after a week away. > > > > Anything else I can do to help let me know. > > > > Uli > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the > answer. Tryit now. > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 975 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38326 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 15:21:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 15:21:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 15:21:32 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.d30.9f6ec50 (33856) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 11:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 11:19:47 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1178119187" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: FanLib Archive FYI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=MlQz01VCanRGV-b725kDZyZ-TJtIWa61PFSXufleR8Co9BXYsVIh X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1178119187 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/2/2007 8:08:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: but the "prepare derivative works of" clause is especially weird. What the heck does that mean? FanLib can grab a fanfic and morph it to something else? That was the "hey, wait a minute!" Clause for me for sure. I think you mailed it. That is THE one thing that I might be able to do with my fanfics someday, re-write them as an original story using characters, dialogue or description that I have developed. No way am I ready to give that possibility away. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1178119187 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 5/2/2007 8:08:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com w= rites:
but the "prepare derivative
= works of" clause is especially weird. What the heck does that mean? FanL= ib can grab a
fanfic and morph it to something else?
That was the "hey, wait a minute!" Clause f= or me for sure. I think you mailed it. That is THE one thing that I might = be able to do with my fanfics someday, re-write them as an original story = using characters, dialogue or description that I have developed. No way am= I ready to give that possibility away.



See what's free at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1178119187-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 976 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65263 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 15:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 15:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 15:40:43 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c5e.13f3c075 (33856) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 11:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 11:28:01 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1178119681" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: FanLib Archive FYI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=FhV_7UsI-5ClllRWoiLFruYTxqTuM9itRYzPaJuZJhJ1b67Z5fwR X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1178119681 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For example: on the derivative stuff, and I admit I know next to nothing about rights, the Tolkien estate still holds the film rights to the Silmarillion. Suppose they decide to sell them and that person decides to do a film of Feanor's years before the creation of the Silmarili--IMHO "Another Man's Cage" would make a delightful film. But, you would want control over not just the money to be made, but how they could take your plot and characters and muck around with them. (I would!) Oh, well, there is the whole element of making money off of one's work and no sharing it. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1178119681 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
For example: on t= he derivative stuff, and I admit I know next to nothing about rights, the = Tolkien estate still holds the film rights to the Silmarillion. Suppose th= ey decide to sell them and that person decides to do a film of Feanor's ye= ars before the creation of the Silmarili--IMHO "Another Man's Cage" w= ould make a delightful film. But, you would want control over not jus= t the money to be made, but how they could take your plot and charact= ers and muck around with them. (I would!) Oh, well, there is the whol= e element of making money off of one's work and no sharing it.
=


See what's free at AOL.com. -------------------------------1178119681-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 977 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49473 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 23:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2007 23:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 23:20:14 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 23:20:11 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 23:20:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2007 23:20:11 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 23:20:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: FanLib Archive FYI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=nYXoXO8q6mSQzDPufGIS-pvZU2NyCcjnbyLVA5G77kap0Dhnw8fUqMRi X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 - Suppose they decide to sell them and that person decides to do a film of= > Feanor's years before the creation of the Silmarili--IMHO "Another Man= 's Cage" > would make a delightful film. Heh. Yeah, I asked Dawn some t= ime ago if she had written the screenplay. Personally, I think the "F=EBa= norian Chronicles" might play well Off-Off-Broadway. :^D From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 978 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82022 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 00:17:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2007 00:17:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.114) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 00:17:08 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 May 2007 00:17:07 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 May 2007 00:17:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 May 2007 00:17:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 00:17:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Something I wrote: By the sea shore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=rhCkDjjOvk0K8CH0GbJcdkQaZW8gDxsNezYv4ewDbU7K81HrluqogWMdNw X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Thanks! I guess it did turn into a prologue. I guess I'll start with 'chap= ter 1' and see where it goes. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.= com, "marielprosser" wrote: > > > Nicely done, Tinni!= I like the idea you've introduced very much, > but this does sound like = a Prologue - I hope you do go somewhere > with it! I am assuming that los= t-Daeron found the twins and kept > them alive? Maglor is really very bro= ken here - I hope to see him > healed, in time. And the idea of the singi= ng-contest introduces > just enough humour to keep it from being unmitigat= ed angst. > > If you aren't sure where to go with this, maybe you could = get a beta > to bounce ideas off of. It sometimes helps to have a second= > opinion ;). > > ~ MithLuin > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yah= oogroups.com, "Tinni" > wrote: > > > > I just posted a= short piece on the community LJ. I have been > wanting to > > write some= thing to put to the group and see what people think. > Here is > > what I= have. I don't know if the story is going any where or even > if I > > wa= nt for it to go somewhere. But I figured I'll put it out there > and > > = see what people's first reactions are. > > > > > > http://community.livej= ournal.com/silwritersguild/96467.html > > > > > > Also, thanks Dawn for t= elling me how to post to the community > journal. > > The blue pencil thi= ng worked. > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 979 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50352 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 01:08:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2007 01:08:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.225.91) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 01:08:26 -0000 Received: from amailcenter07.comcast.net ([204.127.225.107]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070503002340b1100kdhfle>; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:23:40 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter07.comcast.net; Thu, 03 May 2007 00:23:39 +0000 To: henneth_annun@yahoogroups.com (Henneth Annun), SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 00:23:39 +0000 Message-Id: <050320070023.17323.46392B8B00055C3C000043AB22165514060B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: New Chapter Uploads for HoMe Reading X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=FmDYICSDuJ6faV9kKZwHo0os25IGvNTK2OGlH2XHRrYaAwwico5U X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, For those of you following along with The History of Middle-earth summaries, the next two chapters from the book, "The Chaining of Melko" and "The Coming of the Elves and the Making of K�r," are available for downloading. To get the chapters, visit the group's page on Yahoo. You will need to be logged in to Yahoo first. On the links list on the left-hand side of the screen, choose FILES. Find the folder called "The History of Middle-earth." The chapters are in there! As usual, I've done my best to re-create the formating of the original as well as fixing any errors that I could find ... but I'm not perfect. :) The books should be used for research or quotes. Enjoy the new chapters! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 980 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55108 invoked from network); 15 May 2007 15:48:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 May 2007 15:48:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc13.comcast.net) (206.18.177.53) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2007 15:48:45 -0000 Received: from amailcenter06.comcast.net ([204.127.225.106]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070515144616b1300drt7ke>; Tue, 15 May 2007 14:46:16 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter06.comcast.net; Tue, 15 May 2007 14:46:16 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:46:16 +0000 Message-Id: <051520071446.2873.4649C7B800013FC200000B3922165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Archive Beta-testers Needed Soon! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=k2ihIFRW7VlvSYTe1bw5EOuHhpyBYBM1J1LTstQTE_Ue0h8FQBey X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund HI, all, As some of you know, this month, I have worked to get the fiction archive up and running on our site. I got everything uploaded and the database built last night, so all that's left to do is figure out how to make the archive look like the rest of the site. That's a project for this week ... and hopefully _only_ this week! :) But what this means is that we should have a functional archive within the next month. Before I open it to the public, I would like to have a few members test it to make sure that everything is working as planned as well as to offer any feedback/suggestions. This will allow you to get a jump on creating an account and uploading stories to the new site. I will not be deleting anything that was uploaded during the beta period, so if you hope to put some of your stories up on the SWG archive, this might be a great opportunity to have your work front and center when the archive is opened to the public. Beta-testers don't need any special experience. I'm looking to get an idea of what it's like for the average Internet user to use our archive, so everyone from greenhorns to web designers are welcome. :) If you sign up to beta-test, however, I'd like you to commit to creating an account on the site and doing at least one of the following: -Uploading a story. -Leaving a review on a story.. -Using one of the other archive features, like the private messaging system or the favorite stories/authors list. You're not obligated to keep your account or stories on the site past the beta period, of course. (Though I hope that people do; it would be nice to have some stories already uploaded when I open the archive to the public!) And you're not constrained to doing just one; if you want to upload fifteen stories, that's fine. Or if you want to review everything that's uploaded (and I'm sure the other beta-testers would love that as well :), then that's great as well. If you're interested in getting a jump-start on using the archive as a beta-tester, please email me at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or at moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org, and I'll add you to the list of beta-testers. It will probably be at least a week and quite possibly longer before I'm ready to start beta-testing the site, and I'll probably run the beta period for at least two weeks, if things go smoothly, allowing for plenty of time to play with the new archive. Best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 981 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36807 invoked from network); 15 May 2007 17:03:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 May 2007 17:03:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2007 17:03:34 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c1d.17486b79 (58550) for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 12:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 12:50:46 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1179247846" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Archive Beta-testers Needed Soon! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=6PW1KIlogyzepFzC8zjAdKtolCBVXgIjSIcqzxvAH1A4xXFfbIvU X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1179247846 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course, I would be happy to Beta-test the site. I would do all of the things on the list if you like. Oshun ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1179247846 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Of course, I woul= d be happy to Beta-test the site. I would do all of the things on the list= if you like.
 
Oshun



See what's free at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1179247846-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 982 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27437 invoked from network); 28 May 2007 02:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2007 02:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2007 02:17:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 32083 invoked by uid 60001); 28 May 2007 02:17:20 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: QDYYAtoVM1mSijaM3qYBjh6V5qOCII6jf0KoNGjmTATpg_wW_SSLndPhA184qLxKb9ia.Vykg1OpskW.SofhkufVH3iN63dxJjZXRl9gXmWnsIsxFURXGGs8XZuwvlqRvk4eQKmp4w0SJjU- Received: from [70.157.83.164] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 May 2007 19:17:20 PDT Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 19:17:20 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-616576860-1180318640=:31110" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <791693.31110.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Poetry X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=Cp_Jn5kz7J_iiNNKVHYkVYTZljWMEPH9GDxYFNphxgFJuM1lWQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-616576860-1180318640=:31110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is there someone who can help me out with some edits on a poem? You're so clueless that if you dressed in a clue skin, doused yourself in clue musk, and did the clue dance in the middle of a field of horny clues at the height of clue mating season, you still wouldn't have a clue. (Rhaps let me steal this quote cause she's cool like that ) --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. --0-616576860-1180318640=:31110 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is there someone who can help me out with some edits on a poem?


You're so clueless that if you dressed in a clue skin, doused yourself in clue musk, and did the clue dance in the middle of a field of horny clues at the height of clue mating season, you still wouldn't have a clue. (Rhaps let me steal this quote cause she's cool like that )

Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. --0-616576860-1180318640=:31110-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 983 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40688 invoked from network); 29 May 2007 09:00:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2007 09:00:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.217) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2007 09:00:33 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2007 09:00:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2007 09:00:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2007 09:00:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 09:00:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: The 2007 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards are About to Begin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=8vh70jqwA__Ve6Zh378S3QBYAP5c1s5i9uP3ESZMD51S8Zz7wnveXX4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard The 2007 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards will start accepting nominations on= June 1 at GMT. In order to nominate a story you must be a member of the ME= FAwards Yahoo group; all members may nominate up to twenty pieces. Self-nom= inations are allowed. The awards accepts nominations of fiction, poetry, an= d non-fiction inspired by the works of J.R.R. Tolkien (and adaptations such= as the Jackson movies). You can read more about what type of stories are e= ligible at http://www.mefawards.net/mefa2007/index.php?page=3DFAQeligibilit= y . To nominate a story you will need the story title, the author's name, = the author's email address, and a link where the story can be read. Please = note, the general public must be able to read the story without having to l= og in. Stories are eligible once as a work-in-progress and once when comple= ted, so be sure to check out our list of previously nominated pieces when t= rying to decide what to nominate. You can find this list at http://www.mefa= wards.net/mefa2007/index.php?page=3DFAQprevnomd . Beginning June 1, you wi= ll be able to nominate your favourite stories, drabbles, poems, and essays = at http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2007/ . (Please note, this link will not wo= rk until June 1.) We'll continue accepting stories until July 15, and all = nominated authors will have until July 22 to accept their nominations. I lo= ok forward to your participation in this year's MEFAs. If you have any qu= estions please email mefasupport(a)gmail.com From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 984 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92410 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2007 04:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2007 04:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.166) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2007 04:15:37 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2007 04:15:27 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2007 04:15:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2007 04:15:26 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 04:15:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: June 2007 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=dMUGUndVigKCnTLlTp7xOWWPMTuXylYj4uMBY4NEpDGhLQm4x25x X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, Our newsletter is out for June, including two new challenges and n= ews and updates. It can be read on our homepage here: http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php I'll be back in a few days with in= formation on how to join the site and post to the archive ... beta-testing = is almost finished! So keep an eye out; this is an exciting time for us. :)= Have a nice weekend ... or what's left of it! Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 985 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47229 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2007 19:28:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2007 19:28:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.164) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2007 19:28:53 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n6.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2007 19:28:49 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2007 19:28:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2007 19:28:49 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:28:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: MEFA announcement regarding liaisons X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=f9zKPIKTmVPNr3IDtaDl0eHrYa-6ODB-EptxktQeBe11yVefZQI3R3Y X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard On behalf of Marta, I am passing this along: Hey guys, Tanaqui and Aranel= straightened out an error on the web page this afternoon. It had to do wit= h how your liaison was displayed. It's fixed now, but until recently some o= f you may have seen the wrong person listed as your liaison. If you have s= ent an email to Acacea, Nancy Brooke, Rhapsody, or Werecat about a nominati= on for the awards, please email mefasupport(at)gmail.com. If you still have= the email you sent in your email's sent folder, please forward it to me so= I can pass it along to your new liaison. I don't think this will affect th= at many people, but I do want to make sure your emails get to the person wh= o needs to see them! If you have any questions, you can ask them here, or = email me privately at the above address. Thanks for your cooperation. Mart= a From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 986 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98891 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2007 03:46:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2007 03:46:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc15.comcast.net) (204.127.225.95) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2007 03:46:18 -0000 Received: from amailcenter12.comcast.net ([204.127.225.112]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070606030737b15008g6f9e>; Wed, 6 Jun 2007 03:07:37 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter12.comcast.net; Wed, 06 Jun 2007 03:07:36 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 03:07:36 +0000 Message-Id: <060620070307.4370.466624F8000A37FE0000111222165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: The Fiction Archive Is Ready! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=EEVIU-gVAwDRH_ccPIAAhdoU-X2yfdE4HZpz3P72ODS3K3ESqVMT X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, As many of you know, over the past few weeks a group of (very patient) beta-testers and I have been putting the finishing touches on and testing the story archive on our homepage. Today, I have good news to report: The last of the work is finished, and the archive is ready to be used by the public! I'd like to invite all of you to join us over there, to share your Silmarillion stories and check out those posted by other SWG members. If you'd like to join the archive, please follow the link below. This will take you through our Conduct Guidelines and Terms of Service. Not much has changed here from the similar guidelines that have always belonged to the Yahoo! group and LiveJournal community, but please be sure to read through them carefully anyway. There is a link at the bottom that will take you to a registration form. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/join.php >From there, you're free to begin uploading stories and posting reviews. Thirteen beta-testers have posted over seventy stories, so those of you looking for something to read should find plenty of that too! Here's a direct link to the archive: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/index.php As usual, if you have any questions or problems, feel free to contact me at the usual places: moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org or DawnFelagund@comcast.net. Enjoy the archive! Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 987 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45021 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2007 12:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2007 12:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.187) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2007 12:48:34 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n5.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2007 12:47:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2007 12:47:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2007 12:47:41 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:47:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <060620070307.4370.466624F8000A37FE0000111222165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: The Fiction Archive Is Ready! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=c9h56Q40uLtExoXpQ4h4UPNfcJiyzAEVuCcUY0XLZmq1YAIoxifFH6lO X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses Hi, Dawn, Congratulations! Quite an achievement! I'm looking forward to mo= re story-reading. Of course, I've already become a member. Warmest regard= s Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 988 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81316 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2007 15:20:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2007 15:20:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.25) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2007 15:20:25 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2007 15:19:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2007 15:19:56 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:19:54 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Looking for a beta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=hRBGudmyVxerHh0tYYvhw26On6iRMWgLX_L2SVynFeG_IWwO70E X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I've written a short story and have had one beta look at it already and she= made some changes. However, my mind is mush from my pregnancy and I am inc= apable of determining how to "fix" my story such that the imagery is right = and the "feelings" I've tried to invoke are still strong. I don't feel that= the story is up to my usual standard of writing, but I don't know why, if = that makes sense. Like I said, my brain is mush. The story involves Indis= , Anaire, and Nerdanel, their regrets, and how they chose to go on without = their families. Is anyone interested in taking a crack at it? If so, pleas= e let me know. Thanks! Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 989 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66813 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2007 15:34:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2007 15:34:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2007 15:34:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 90621 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jun 2007 15:30:17 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: MfDowpsVM1ndH.rOBLhgMjFj7b1G7.PhgzpiYVnefYQdOP53EOQuihSKQBiOwNnLTh9NJ2boIznCuacOMTZvWOumL8uV.U67A7qfHBnvEuIuHxfBj5OHpeGiTTd.ovXrFl2SxyZatE0Ot5RP_h4KfzP_FA-- Received: from [75.183.110.79] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 08:30:17 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23.1 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.14 Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 08:30:17 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1209582578-1181230217=:89891" Message-ID: <501674.89891.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=4b9Nrv3_bkrOAyMJSMJW9_LWdY_JgfXAIcjQP_xhbmb0ziuYbg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1209582578-1181230217=:89891 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii I am trying to finish up a drabble series about the fate of the Feanorians and I'm not sure where I can find more information about the twins' death. The Silmarillion barely mentions it. Do any of the HoME books have anything? I didn't find anything about their deaths in Morgoth's Ring other than the alterate version that one was burned in the ships.I do not want to use that version. I'm trying to make sure that I don't let fanon confuse me so does anyone know where there is more details of their deaths during the Third Kinslaying other than the two sentences in the Silmarillion? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ --0-1209582578-1181230217=:89891 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii
I am trying to finish up a drabble series about the fate of the Feanorians and I'm not sure where I can find more information about the twins' death. The Silmarillion barely mentions it. Do any of the HoME books have anything? I didn't find anything about their deaths in Morgoth's Ring other than the alterate version that one was burned in the ships.I do not want to use that version. I'm trying to make sure that I don't let fanon confuse me so does anyone know where there is more details of their deaths during the Third Kinslaying other than the two sentences in the Silmarillion?



It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. --0-1209582578-1181230217=:89891-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 990 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13001 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2007 15:38:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2007 15:38:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2007 15:38:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 701 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jun 2007 15:33:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: WwKP1IIVM1nTYPmSpRZ6k1YRi8Yd.ubdBoI2fYIimehg0Ay88D0zMwv84_9G3rGBRT.3R9B_4X.6kYl1Eye5RWb2NA-- Received: from [75.183.110.79] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 08:33:31 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23.1 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.14 Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 08:33:31 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1799554482-1181230411=:373" Message-ID: <173170.373.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for a beta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=DBPgxOKhVZf9dDVKyA7YyYFm6VyxvaB5qfPpD4QmDgVerHSypw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1799554482-1181230411=:373 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Are you looking for canon accuracy, grammar and punctuation? Or just wanting an opinion about the emotional impact of the story? If you just want an opinion, I'll check it out for you but the other three things aren't my area of expertise as any of my betas will tell you. ----- Original Message ---- From: ellfine2000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2007 11:19:54 AM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for a beta I've written a short story and have had one beta look at it already and she made some changes. However, my mind is mush from my pregnancy and I am incapable of determining how to "fix" my story such that the imagery is right and the "feelings" I've tried to invoke are still strong. I don't feel that the story is up to my usual standard of writing, but I don't know why, if that makes sense. Like I said, my brain is mush. The story involves Indis, Anaire, and Nerdanel, their regrets, and how they chose to go on without their families. Is anyone interested in taking a crack at it? If so, please let me know. Thanks! Ellie ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC --0-1799554482-1181230411=:373 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii
Are you looking for canon accuracy, grammar and punctuation? Or just wanting an opinion about the emotional impact of the story? If you just want an opinion, I'll check it out for you but the other three things aren't my area of expertise as any of my betas will tell you.

----- Original Message ----
From: ellfine2000
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2007 11:19:54 AM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for a beta

I've written a short story and have had one beta look at it already
and she made some changes. However, my mind is mush from my pregnancy
and I am incapable of determining how to "fix" my story such that the
imagery is right and the "feelings" I've tried to invoke are still
strong. I don't feel that the story is up to my usual standard of
writing, but I don't know why, if that makes sense. Like I said, my
brain is mush. The story involves Indis, Anaire, and Nerdanel, their
regrets, and how they chose to go on without their families.

Is anyone interested in taking a crack at it? If so, please let me know.

Thanks!
Ellie



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Autos new Car Finder tool. --0-1799554482-1181230411=:373-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 991 Return-Path: X-Sender: tea_party@ourbrisbane.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93090 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2007 16:42:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2007 16:42:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sam.ourbrisbane.net) (202.86.32.69) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2007 16:42:22 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by sam.ourbrisbane.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95DE17410C for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2007 02:35:44 +1000 (EST) Received: from h64-5-223-184.gtcust.grouptelecom.net ( [h64-5-223-184.gtcust.grouptelecom.net]) as user tea_party@ourbrisbane.com@localhost by webmail.ourbrisbane.com with HTTP; Fri, 8 Jun 2007 02:35:44 +1000 Message-ID: <1181234144.466833e09087c@webmail.ourbrisbane.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 02:35:44 +1000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: tea_party@ourbrisbane.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Looking for a beta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150850663; y=JJD1MV3hW69BIC3l2eJIFEwjl04eg2umboCBONuHe6sMD0k X-Yahoo-Profile: uncutray The brain mush thing is very common post pregnancy. My wife still suffers from it and our daughter is 4 years old ... sorry to be the bearer of bad news! Men who get involved in the raising of their children--getting up at night, etc.--are also susceptible to the syndrome! I'd be happy to take a look at your story (I am a professional writer and editor). Your subject matter intrigues me because it is something that I have contemplated extensively while (re)reading The Silmarillion. How quickly do you want it turned around? My schedule is pretty tight between deadlines at work, my daughter's activities, and leading discussions on other Yahoo Groups (Silmarillion and otherwise). Matt West Quoting ellfine2000 : > I've written a short story and have had one beta look at it already > and she made some changes. However, my mind is mush from my pregnancy > and I am incapable of determining how to "fix" my story such that the > imagery is right and the "feelings" I've tried to invoke are still > strong. I don't feel that the story is up to my usual standard of > writing, but I don't know why, if that makes sense. Like I said, my > brain is mush. The story involves Indis, Anaire, and Nerdanel, their > regrets, and how they chose to go on without their families. > > Is anyone interested in taking a crack at it? If so, please let me know. > > Thanks! > Ellie > > ------------------------------------------- Get your free email at ourbrisbane.com now From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 992 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40228 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2007 17:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2007 17:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc12.comcast.net) (204.127.225.92) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2007 17:36:50 -0000 Received: from amailcenter09.comcast.net ([204.127.225.109]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070607164857b1200qiioge>; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 16:48:57 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter09.comcast.net; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:48:57 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:48:57 +0000 Message-Id: <060720071648.2891.466836F9000447ED00000B4B22155751140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=sJa_f5YNFNaFI0jgQWLDnQw22gD2SxBO9cICDtbJ2aFlQevgdndB X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Alassante7 > I am trying to finish up a drabble series about the fate of the Feanorians and > I'm not sure where I can find more information about the twins' death. The > Silmarillion barely mentions it. Do any of the HoME books have anything? I did a word search of my digital books for "amrod," since the twins are always mentioned together and "amrod" also forms part of Amrod's early name, "Damrod." In HoMe 4, "The Quenta," section 17, I found: The dwelling of Elwing at Sirion's mouth, where still she possessed the Nauglafring and the glorious Silmaril, became known to the sons of Feanor; and they gathered together from their wandering hunting-paths. But the folk of Sirion would not yield that jewel which Beren had won and Luthien had worn, and for which fair Dior had been slain. And so befell the last and cruellest slaying of Elf by Elf, the third woe achieved by the accursed oath; for the sons of Feanor came down upon the exiles of Gondolin and the remnant of Doriath, and though some of their folk stood aside and some few rebelled and were slain upon the other part aiding Elwing against their own lords, yet they won the day. Damrod was slain and Diriel, and Maidros and Maglor alone now remained of the Seven; but the last of the folk of Gondolin were destroyed or forced to depart and join them to the people of Maidros. And yet the sons of Feanor ga ined not the Silmaril; for Elwing cast the Nauglafring into the sea, whence it shall not return until the End; and she leapt herself into the waves, and took the form of a white sea-bird, and flew away lamenting and seeking for Earendel about all the shores of the world. /quote This doesn't have too much detail about the twins' deaths specifically, but it gives a few details that aren't in The Silm. Later, CT's commentary on this passage: "Minor developments are the dissension among the Feanorians, so that some stood aside and others aided Elwing; the deaths of Damrod and Diriel (see p. 84); the explanation of Maidros' pity for the child Elrond ('for his heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath'); and the description of Wingelot." Also from HoMe4, "Annals of Beleriand": 225 Torment of Maidros and his brothers because of their oath. Damrod and Diriel resolve to win the Silmaril if Earendel will not yield it. Here unquiet came upon Earendel and he voyaged the seas afar seeking Tuor, and seeking Valinor, but he found neither. The marvels that he did and saw were very many and renowned. Elrond Half-elfin, son of Earendel, was born. The folk of Sirion refused to give up the Silmaril in Earendel's absence, and they thought their joy and prosperity came of it. 229 Here Damrod and Diriel ravaged Sirion, and were slain. Maidros and Maglor gave reluctant aid. Sirion's folk were slain or taken into the company of Maidros. Elrond was taken to nurture by Maglor. Elwing cast herself with the Silmaril into the sea, but by Ulmo's aid in the shape of a bird flew to Earendel and found him returning. /quote This, interestingly, shifts the blame for the final kinslaying to Amrod and Amras. CT's commentary on the subject: Annals 208 to 233 In annal 210 it is said that Maidros actually forswore his oath (although in the final annal he still strives to fulfil it); and this is clearly to be related to his revulsion at the killing of Dior's sons in the annal for 206. Damrod and Diriel now emerge as the most ferocious of the surviving sons of Feanor, and it is on them that the blame for the assault on the people of Sirion is primarily laid: Maidros and Maglor only 'gave reluctant aid'. This develops further an increasing emphasis in these texts on the weariness and loathing felt by Maidros and Maglor for the duty they felt bound to. /quote The "Later Annals of Beleriand" (HoMe5) convey the same idea: 325 [525]. Torment fell upon Maidros and his brethren, because of their unfulfilled oath. Damrod and Diriel resolved to win the Silmaril, if Earendel would not give it up willingly. But the unquiet had come also upon Earendel, and he set sail in his ship Wingelot, Flower of the Foam, and he voyaged the far seas seeking Tuor, and seeking Valinor. But he found neither; yet the marvels that he did were many and renowned.(43) Elrond the Half-elfin,(44) son of Earendel, was born while Earendel was far at sea. The folk of Sirion refused to surrender the Silmaril, both because Earendel was not there, and because they thought that their bliss and prosperity came from the possession of the gem. 329 [529]. Here Damrod and Diriel ravaged Sirion, and were slain. Maidros and Maglor were there, but they were sick at heart. This was the third kinslaying. The folk of Sirion were taken into the people of Maidros, such as yet remained; and Elrond was taken to nurture by Maglor. But Elwing cast herself with the Silmaril into the sea, and Ulmo bore her up, and in the shape of a bird she flew seeking Earendel, and found him returning. /quote I suppose that my conclusion is that there isn't a whole lot to know, that JRRT seemed to be on the verge of developing the role of the twins in the final kinslaying a bit more, but then changed his mind. Maedhros and Maglor became less passive, and Amrod and Amras became less aggressive. I did find an interesting note from CT that indicated that he thought JRRT might have once considered having *both* twins die on the ships. Maybe this is why they were never given more of a role? I suppose it's anyone's guess. :) But the good thing is that it leaves lots of room for creativity and invention! All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 993 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15214 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2007 18:20:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2007 18:20:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.134) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2007 18:20:54 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2007 18:19:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2007 18:19:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2007 18:19:59 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 18:19:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1181234144.466833e09087c@webmail.ourbrisbane.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Looking for a beta-Matt and Alassante X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=CI6OB5FedriQjSWGyJchWqkQ-Sfp6scKvWrX99pXg6sJnWSZmQQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I am looking for whatever help anyone wants to give me. No rush on the dead= line. If it's okay with you, I will e-mail you both with the first draft an= d the draft the beta played with. I'll also send you links to a few of my = other stories so you can see what my writing is usually like and how far th= is story seems to have fallen short of my usual :-( This is kid number 4, = so I'm used to the mush thing, but this is a really bad case of brain mush = and it's been a very complicated pregnancy. Thanks for your help! Ellie= > The brain mush thing is very common post pregnancy. My wife still suffe= rs from > it and our daughter is 4 years old ... sorry to be the bearer of = bad news! Men > who get involved in the raising of their children--getting = up at night, > etc.--are also susceptible to the syndrome! > > I'd be happ= y to take a look at your story (I am a professional writer and > editor). Y= our subject matter intrigues me because it is something that I have > conte= mplated extensively while (re)reading The Silmarillion. How quickly do you = > want it turned around? My schedule is pretty tight between deadlines at w= ork, my > daughter's activities, and leading discussions on other Yahoo Gro= ups > (Silmarillion and otherwise). > > Matt West > > > > Quoting ellfi= ne2000 : > > > I've written a short story and have had one b= eta look at it already > > and she made some changes. However, my mind is m= ush from my pregnancy > > and I am incapable of determining how to "fix" my= story such that the > > imagery is right and the "feelings" I've tried to = invoke are still > > strong. I don't feel that the story is up to my usual = standard of > > writing, but I don't know why, if that makes sense. Like I= said, my > > brain is mush. The story involves Indis, Anaire, and Nerdane= l, their > > regrets, and how they chose to go on without their families. >= > > > Is anyone interested in taking a crack at it? If so, please let me = know. > > > > Thanks! > > Ellie > > > > > > > > > > ---------------= ---------------------------- > Get your free email at ourbrisbane.com now >= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 994 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86294 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2007 18:45:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2007 18:45:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2007 18:45:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 73925 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jun 2007 18:34:04 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: FZkqML4VM1l5kakyAxh1lgKRZwApQar62xSQonQX8n8WIamBGTINX_336KuU0vebZ663mp0lBv_nFQqoZUfovMnAsIPupJb1W3wnL0cNUVHK.lSXmyYcfeH7GloLaqi4QDiU5lUN5uFTw5k- Received: from [75.183.110.79] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:34:04 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23.1 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.14 Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:34:04 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1307203480-1181241244=:71904" Message-ID: <918692.71904.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=_Mxy0vtZoUcLxE8yvbKmHDMpW93b0xVZY-rcgVrbn8r6mQSThQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1307203480-1181241244=:71904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Thanks so much Dawn! I never thought of looking up the alternate names. Thats so strange to read that they were the more aggressive ones in a few versions. I never really think of them that way but I guess thats mainly because of fanfiction's portrayal of them. Hey - where'd you get the digital books? I'm still doing it the hard way lol Thanks Dawn for all the information. This has put a different twist on the story for me. ----- Original Message ---- From: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2007 12:48:57 PM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Amras/Amrod From: Alassante7 > I am trying to finish up a drabble series about the fate of the Feanorians and > I'm not sure where I can find more information about the twins' death. The > Silmarillion barely mentions it. Do any of the HoME books have anything? I did a word search of my digital books for "amrod," since the twins are always mentioned together and "amrod" also forms part of Amrod's early name, "Damrod." In HoMe 4, "The Quenta," section 17, I found: The dwelling of Elwing at Sirion's mouth, where still she possessed the Nauglafring and the glorious Silmaril, became known to the sons of Feanor; and they gathered together from their wandering hunting-paths. But the folk of Sirion would not yield that jewel which Beren had won and Luthien had worn, and for which fair Dior had been slain. And so befell the last and cruellest slaying of Elf by Elf, the third woe achieved by the accursed oath; for the sons of Feanor came down upon the exiles of Gondolin and the remnant of Doriath, and though some of their folk stood aside and some few rebelled and were slain upon the other part aiding Elwing against their own lords, yet they won the day. Damrod was slain and Diriel, and Maidros and Maglor alone now remained of the Seven; but the last of the folk of Gondolin were destroyed or forced to depart and join them to the people of Maidros. And yet the sons of Feanor ga ined not the Silmaril; for Elwing cast the Nauglafring into the sea, whence it shall not return until the End; and she leapt herself into the waves, and took the form of a white sea-bird, and flew away lamenting and seeking for Earendel about all the shores of the world. /quote This doesn't have too much detail about the twins' deaths specifically, but it gives a few details that aren't in The Silm. Later, CT's commentary on this passage: "Minor developments are the dissension among the Feanorians, so that some stood aside and others aided Elwing; the deaths of Damrod and Diriel (see p. 84); the explanation of Maidros' pity for the child Elrond ('for his heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath'); and the description of Wingelot." Also from HoMe4, "Annals of Beleriand": 225 Torment of Maidros and his brothers because of their oath. Damrod and Diriel resolve to win the Silmaril if Earendel will not yield it. Here unquiet came upon Earendel and he voyaged the seas afar seeking Tuor, and seeking Valinor, but he found neither. The marvels that he did and saw were very many and renowned. Elrond Half-elfin, son of Earendel, was born. The folk of Sirion refused to give up the Silmaril in Earendel's absence, and they thought their joy and prosperity came of it. 229 Here Damrod and Diriel ravaged Sirion, and were slain. Maidros and Maglor gave reluctant aid. Sirion's folk were slain or taken into the company of Maidros. Elrond was taken to nurture by Maglor. Elwing cast herself with the Silmaril into the sea, but by Ulmo's aid in the shape of a bird flew to Earendel and found him returning. /quote This, interestingly, shifts the blame for the final kinslaying to Amrod and Amras. CT's commentary on the subject: Annals 208 to 233 In annal 210 it is said that Maidros actually forswore his oath (although in the final annal he still strives to fulfil it); and this is clearly to be related to his revulsion at the killing of Dior's sons in the annal for 206. Damrod and Diriel now emerge as the most ferocious of the surviving sons of Feanor, and it is on them that the blame for the assault on the people of Sirion is primarily laid: Maidros and Maglor only 'gave reluctant aid'. This develops further an increasing emphasis in these texts on the weariness and loathing felt by Maidros and Maglor for the duty they felt bound to. /quote The "Later Annals of Beleriand" (HoMe5) convey the same idea: 325 [525]. Torment fell upon Maidros and his brethren, because of their unfulfilled oath. Damrod and Diriel resolved to win the Silmaril, if Earendel would not give it up willingly. But the unquiet had come also upon Earendel, and he set sail in his ship Wingelot, Flower of the Foam, and he voyaged the far seas seeking Tuor, and seeking Valinor. But he found neither; yet the marvels that he did were many and renowned.(43) Elrond the Half-elfin,( 44) son of Earendel, was born while Earendel was far at sea. The folk of Sirion refused to surrender the Silmaril, both because Earendel was not there, and because they thought that their bliss and prosperity came from the possession of the gem. 329 [529]. Here Damrod and Diriel ravaged Sirion, and were slain. Maidros and Maglor were there, but they were sick at heart. This was the third kinslaying. The folk of Sirion were taken into the people of Maidros, such as yet remained; and Elrond was taken to nurture by Maglor. But Elwing cast herself with the Silmaril into the sea, and Ulmo bore her up, and in the shape of a bird she flew seeking Earendel, and found him returning. /quote I suppose that my conclusion is that there isn't a whole lot to know, that JRRT seemed to be on the verge of developing the role of the twins in the final kinslaying a bit more, but then changed his mind. Maedhros and Maglor became less passive, and Amrod and Amras became less aggressive. I did find an interesting note from CT that indicated that he thought JRRT might have once considered having *both* twins die on the ships. Maybe this is why they were never given more of a role? I suppose it's anyone's guess. :) But the good thing is that it leaves lots of room for creativity and invention! All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn- felagund. livejournal. com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org ~oOo~ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 --0-1307203480-1181241244=:71904 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii
Thanks so much Dawn! I never thought of looking up the alternate names.

Thats so strange to read that they were the more aggressive ones in a few versions. I never really think of them that way but I guess thats mainly because of fanfiction's portrayal of them.

Hey - where'd you get the digital books? I'm still doing it the hard way lol

Thanks Dawn for all the information. This has put a different twist on the story for me.



----- Original Message ----
From: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net"
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2007 12:48:57 PM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Amras/Amrod

From: Alassante7 <alassante7@yahoo. com>
> I am trying to finish up a drabble series about the fate of the Feanorians and
> I'm not sure where I can find more information about the twins' death. The
> Silmarillion barely mentions it. Do any of the HoME books have anything?

I did a word search of my digital books for "amrod," since the twins are always mentioned together and "amrod" also forms part of Amrod's early name, "Damrod."

In HoMe 4, "The Quenta," section 17, I found:

The dwelling of Elwing at Sirion's mouth, where still she possessed the Nauglafring and the glorious Silmaril, became known to the sons of Feanor; and they gathered together from their wandering hunting-paths. But the folk of Sirion would not yield that jewel which Beren had won and Luthien had worn, and for which fair Dior had been slain. And so befell the last and cruellest slaying of Elf by Elf, the third woe achieved by the accursed oath; for the sons of Feanor came down upon the exiles of Gondolin and the remnant of Doriath, and though some of their folk stood aside and some few rebelled and were slain upon the other part aiding Elwing against their own lords, yet they won the day. Damrod was slain and Diriel, and Maidros and Maglor alone now remained of the Seven; but the last of the folk of Gondolin were destroyed or forced to depart and join them to the people of Maidros. And yet the sons of Feanor ga
ined not the Silmaril; for Elwing cast the Nauglafring into the sea, whence it shall not return until the End; and she leapt herself into the waves, and took the form of a white sea-bird, and flew away lamenting and seeking for Earendel about all the shores of the world.
/quote

This doesn't have too much detail about the twins' deaths specifically, but it gives a few details that aren't in The Silm.

Later, CT's commentary on this passage: "Minor developments are the dissension among the Feanorians, so that some stood aside and others aided Elwing; the deaths of Damrod and Diriel (see p. 84); the explanation of Maidros' pity for the child Elrond ('for his heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath'); and the description of Wingelot."

Also from HoMe4, "Annals of Beleriand":

225 Torment of Maidros and his brothers because of their oath. Damrod and Diriel resolve to win the Silmaril if Earendel will not yield it. Here unquiet came upon Earendel and he voyaged the seas afar seeking Tuor, and seeking Valinor, but he found neither. The marvels that he did and saw were very many and renowned. Elrond Half-elfin, son of Earendel, was born. The folk of Sirion refused to give up the Silmaril in Earendel's absence, and they thought their joy and prosperity came of it.

229 Here Damrod and Diriel ravaged Sirion, and were slain. Maidros and Maglor gave reluctant aid. Sirion's folk were slain or taken into the company of Maidros. Elrond was taken to nurture by Maglor. Elwing cast herself with the Silmaril into the sea, but by Ulmo's aid in the shape of a bird flew to Earendel and found him returning.
/quote

This, interestingly, shifts the blame for the final kinslaying to Amrod and Amras. CT's commentary on the subject:

Annals 208 to 233 In annal 210 it is said that Maidros actually forswore his oath (although in the final annal he still strives to fulfil it); and this is clearly to be related to his revulsion at the killing of Dior's sons in the annal for 206. Damrod and Diriel now emerge as the most ferocious of the surviving sons of Feanor, and it is on them that the blame for the assault on the people of Sirion is primarily laid: Maidros and Maglor only 'gave reluctant aid'. This develops further an increasing emphasis in these texts on the weariness and loathing felt by Maidros and Maglor for the duty they felt bound to.
/quote

The "Later Annals of Beleriand" (HoMe5) convey the same idea:

325 [525]. Torment fell upon Maidros and his brethren, because of their unfulfilled oath. Damrod and Diriel resolved to win the Silmaril, if Earendel would not give it up willingly. But the unquiet had come also upon Earendel, and he set sail in his ship Wingelot, Flower of the Foam, and he voyaged the far seas seeking Tuor, and seeking Valinor. But he found neither; yet the marvels that he did were many and renowned.(43) Elrond the Half-elfin,( 44) son of Earendel, was born while Earendel was far at sea. The folk of Sirion refused to surrender the Silmaril, both because Earendel was not there, and because they thought that their bliss and prosperity came from the possession of the gem.

329 [529]. Here Damrod and Diriel ravaged Sirion, and were slain. Maidros and Maglor were there, but they were sick at heart. This was the third kinslaying. The folk of Sirion were taken into the people of Maidros, such as yet remained; and Elrond was taken to nurture by Maglor. But Elwing cast herself with the Silmaril into the sea, and Ulmo bore her up, and in the shape of a bird she flew seeking Earendel, and found him returning.
/quote

I suppose that my conclusion is that there isn't a whole lot to know, that JRRT seemed to be on the verge of developing the role of the twins in the final kinslaying a bit more, but then changed his mind. Maedhros and Maglor became less passive, and Amrod and Amras became less aggressive. I did find an interesting note from CT that indicated that he thought JRRT might have once considered having *both* twins die on the ships. Maybe this is why they were never given more of a role? I suppose it's anyone's guess. :)

But the good thing is that it leaves lots of room for creativity and invention!

All the best,
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn- felagund. livejournal. com/profile

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org
~oOo~



You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck
in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --0-1307203480-1181241244=:71904-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 995 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15750 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2007 15:31:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2007 15:31:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.220) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2007 15:31:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2007 15:31:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2007 15:31:17 -0000 Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:31:16 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Looking for a beta-Matt X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=66KuWF1sbGQHnjeXggbmJzR9lr4bbNYTlDxrpafXrs5fK6dtqzU X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Matt, Could you please send me your e-mail address? I tried e-mailing you= yesterday and the message bounced. Thanks! Ellie > > I am looking for wh= atever help anyone wants to give me. No rush on the > deadline. If it's oka= y with you, I will e-mail you both with the first > draft and the draft the= beta played with. I'll also send you links to > a few of my other stories= so you can see what my writing is usually > like and how far this story se= ems to have fallen short of my usual :-( > > This is kid number 4, so I'm = used to the mush thing, but this is a > really bad case of brain mush and i= t's been a very complicated > pregnancy. > > Thanks for your help! > > = Ellie > > > The brain mush thing is very common post pregnancy. My wife st= ill > suffers from > > it and our daughter is 4 years old ... sorry to be t= he bearer of bad > news! Men > > who get involved in the raising of their c= hildren--getting up at night, > > etc.--are also susceptible to the syndrom= e! > > > > I'd be happy to take a look at your story (I am a professional = > writer and > > editor). Your subject matter intrigues me because it is so= mething > that I have > > contemplated extensively while (re)reading The Si= lmarillion. How > quickly do you > > want it turned around? My schedule is = pretty tight between deadlines > at work, my > > daughter's activities, and= leading discussions on other Yahoo Groups > > (Silmarillion and otherwise)= . > > > > Matt West > > > > > > > > Quoting ellfine2000 : > = > > > > I've written a short story and have had one beta look at it alread= y > > > and she made some changes. However, my mind is mush from my pregnan= cy > > > and I am incapable of determining how to "fix" my story such that = the > > > imagery is right and the "feelings" I've tried to invoke are stil= l > > > strong. I don't feel that the story is up to my usual standard of >= > > writing, but I don't know why, if that makes sense. Like I said, my >= > > brain is mush. The story involves Indis, Anaire, and Nerdanel, their = > > > regrets, and how they chose to go on without their families. > > > >= > > Is anyone interested in taking a crack at it? If so, please let me > k= now. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Ellie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >= > > ------------------------------------------- > > Get your free email a= t ourbrisbane.com now > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 996 Return-Path: X-Sender: hrymfaxe@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8255 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2007 19:41:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2007 19:41:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.118) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2007 19:41:39 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2007 19:41:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2007 19:41:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2007 19:41:29 -0000 Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 19:41:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <918692.71904.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "hrymfaxe" Subject: Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=311315064; y=8PGktC46jPnh2A4H8C1KT7J2lqPmpY48_VHhF8I9QarmWf4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hrymfaxe I agree completely with Alassante - these quotes bring an interesting new = view on Amras and Amrod. Usually, they seem to be mostly cottoned on to wh= atever the other brothers are doing, as an afterthought, because obviously= they had to be there too. :) But if they were the instigators of the Thir= d Kinslaying, that creates a much more active (and interesting) agenda on = their part. If Tolkien seriously considered killing them both off on the s= hips, it was probably to cut down a bit on the caracters he had to juggle = later on... I'm glad he didn't get around to do it - where would the fun b= e, without redheaded twins in the mix? I look forward to seeing your story= Alassante; it is a very interesting topic. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 997 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8364 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2007 08:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2007 08:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.235) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2007 08:31:34 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n24.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2007 08:31:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2007 08:31:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2007 08:31:24 -0000 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 08:31:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <060720071648.2891.466836F9000447ED00000B4B22155751140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=5xgVa8Q-GBELbZvO14j0PvzogB__uD_ftNGG-yodqKWSMpeagbqK3o8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: >= I suppose that my conclusion is that there isn't a whole lot to > know, t= hat JRRT seemed to be on the verge of developing the role of > the twins i= n the final kinslaying a bit more, but then changed his > mind. Maedhros a= nd Maglor became less passive, and Amrod and Amras > became less aggressiv= e. I did find an interesting note from CT that > indicated that he thought= JRRT might have once considered having < *both* twins die on the ships. M= aybe this is why they were never > given more of a role? I suppose it's an= yone's guess. :) Hehehe, during HOME (as I was talking about earlier this = week with someone else), there are a lot of fascinating scenario's to be fo= und on motivations, including the twins. What stands out to me is that Maeh= dros sometimes comes across as very passive, very intrigueing. > But the = good thing is that it leaves lots of room for creativity and > invention! = True. Although I am most often forget to scribble down where I found a cert= ain paragraph or line and end up digging through those 12 books again. ;) *= silently points to crates with new bunnies* Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 998 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18608 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2007 15:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2007 15:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc14.comcast.net) (204.127.225.94) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2007 15:10:16 -0000 Received: from amailcenter12.comcast.net ([204.127.225.112]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070610151015b140041159e>; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:10:15 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter12.comcast.net; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:10:15 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:10:15 +0000 Message-Id: <061020071510.24080.466C1457000046CB00005E1022165548860B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=3jQ2n5Z6CyqoAwvxteQgDw6gniFRkqkLIBCTfFUKQNA0I_-y5Glq X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "hrymfaxe" > I agree completely with Alassante - these quotes bring an interesting > new view on Amras and Amrod. Usually, they seem to be mostly cottoned > on to whatever the other brothers are doing, as an afterthought, > because obviously they had to be there too. :) My personal theory on the twins (based on the Silm) has always been that they were either protected by or simply not useful to their brothers. They are assigned a region that is of little political importance, and it is said that they did not often come north to help their brothers with the defense of Beleriand: "But there Amrod and Amras had their abode, and they came seldom northward while the Siege lasted" ("Of Beleriand and Its Realms"). And oddly, this idea is also in the earliest version of the twins' story. From the "Annals of Beleriand" in HoMe 4, Year 51: "Damrod and Diriel were there, and came not much to war in the North." In this same document, the twins are the aggressors at Sirion. But considering The Silm, where the twins are passive throughout, sentimental me thinks that the older brothers were simply protecting the youngest: giving them lands in which they would delight, where harm was unlikely to come to them, and keeping them from war. Cynical me wonders if the twins simply weren't suited to war and used their distance from Angband as an excuse to ignore what was going on there. Considering the HoMe and the twins' aggression at the third kinslaying (and also their passivity during the Seige), this complicates things. The writer in me recognizes that JRRT might have been uncertain how he wanted to handle their characters and ended up choosing to emphasize the 3Cs (being more active, visible characters) as the aggressors while keeping Maedhros and Maglor as the more level-headed, diplomatic contingent. Which leaves the twins without much of a role at all, perhaps making them convenient to kill off in the burning of the ships to accomplish a completely different purpose: underscoring Feanor's madness and also leaving room for that final dramatic encounter between him and Nerdanel. In the early versions, each kinslaying involves all seven sons but none are driven by Maedhros and Maglor. These two characters are regretful and repentant compared to The Silmarillion. Feanor rouses the first kinslaying, of course. Celegorm and Curufin are to blame for the second: >From Doriath none came. For Maidros and his brethren had before sent unto Doriath and reminded Thingol with exceedingly haughty words of their oath, and summoned him to yield up the Silmaril. This Melian counselled him to do, and maybe he would have done, but their words were overproud, and he thought how the jewel had been gained by the sorrows of Thingol's people, and despite the crooked deeds of the sons of Feanor; and greed too, it may be, had some part in the heart of Thingol, as afterwards was shown. Wherefore he sent the messengers of Maidros back in scorn. Maidros said nought, for at that time he was beginning to ponder the reunion of the forces of the Elves. But Celegorm and Curufin vowed aloud to slay Thingol or any of his folk they should ever see, by night or day, in war or peace. /quote And the twins encouraged the final kinslaying, where Maedhros and Maglor are only reluctant participants with Maedhros going so far as to forswear his oath. Later, The Silmarillion makes Maedhros and Maglor far less "innocent" in all of this, so the need for the twins to be the aggressors at the final kinslaying diminishes. We end up with two characters who seem to do little in the story and are prime for being killed off by their creator to serve different needs. That's my crazy theory for the day. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 999 Return-Path: X-Sender: tea_party@ourbrisbane.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21174 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2007 22:38:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2007 22:38:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2007 22:38:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2007 22:38:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2007 22:38:19 -0000 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:38:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Matt" Subject: Re: Looking for a beta-Matt X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150850663; y=bVBGAyPjTp52qNs6r-shbJIlFQAlBsplyxw9eHzGD3V0BFU X-Yahoo-Profile: uncutray Please contact me privately at tea_party@ourbrisbane.com and I'll send you = my private email address. I'm not sure why my tea_party email is bouncing. = It accepts fairly large attachments. Are you getting a specific error messa= ge? Matt West --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "ellfine2= 000" wrote: > > Matt, > > Could you please send me your e-= mail address? I tried e-mailing you > yesterday and the message bounced. >= > Thanks! > Ellie > > > > I am looking for whatever help anyone wants to = give me. No rush on the > > deadline. If it's okay with you, I will e-mail = you both with the first > > draft and the draft the beta played with. I'll= also send you links to > > a few of my other stories so you can see what m= y writing is usually > > like and how far this story seems to have fallen s= hort of my usual :-( > > > > This is kid number 4, so I'm used to the mush= thing, but this is a > > really bad case of brain mush and it's been a ver= y complicated > > pregnancy. > > > > Thanks for your help! > > > > Elli= e > > > > > The brain mush thing is very common post pregnancy. My wife st= ill > > suffers from > > > it and our daughter is 4 years old ... sorry to = be the bearer of bad > > news! Men > > > who get involved in the raising of= their children--getting up at > night, > > > etc.--are also susceptible to= the syndrome! > > > > > > I'd be happy to take a look at your story (I am= a professional > > writer and > > > editor). Your subject matter intrigues= me because it is something > > that I have > > > contemplated extensively = while (re)reading The Silmarillion. How > > quickly do you > > > want it tu= rned around? My schedule is pretty tight between deadlines > > at work, my = > > > daughter's activities, and leading discussions on other Yahoo Groups = > > > (Silmarillion and otherwise). > > > > > > Matt West > > > > > > > = > > > > > Quoting ellfine2000 : > > > > > > > I've written a s= hort story and have had one beta look at it already > > > > and she made so= me changes. However, my mind is mush from my > pregnancy > > > > and I am i= ncapable of determining how to "fix" my story such > that the > > > > image= ry is right and the "feelings" I've tried to invoke are still > > > > stron= g. I don't feel that the story is up to my usual standard of > > > > writin= g, but I don't know why, if that makes sense. Like I said, my > > > > brai= n is mush. The story involves Indis, Anaire, and Nerdanel, > their > > > >= regrets, and how they chose to go on without their families. > > > > > > = > > Is anyone interested in taking a crack at it? If so, please let me > > = know. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Ellie > > > > > > > > > > > > > >= > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > = > > Get your free email at ourbrisbane.com now > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1000 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52213 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 08:03:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 08:03:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 08:03:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 70160 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2007 04:45:17 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: KEM6ITYVM1nLxU4LixqYgV0FNVk9ihiOds7ZlYc6Jy_fJHErll2t6k60ehcAIP1AqvuokgmwK4tuWSdW5B.fHsZYYFInJv33wRXBuMFPuyjcn5FZImc- Received: from [75.183.97.25] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:45:17 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23.1 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.14 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:45:17 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1761767281-1181537117=:68086" Message-ID: <428720.68086.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=4lR-0XFn8l5Od7Gn3CcVCTsmM-8oLYtmKIen_oj5WyHZyK1F1w X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1761767281-1181537117=:68086 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Curufin wanted me to tell you to stop spreading these vicious rumors about him. His role in that kinslaying was greatly exagerated. Celegorm talked him into the whole thing and once they got there - he said he was a pansy if he left. So he *had* to take part. ----- Original Message ---- From: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 11:10:15 AM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod Celegorm and Curufin are to blame for the second: Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn- felagund. livejournal. com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org ~oOo~ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ --0-1761767281-1181537117=:68086 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii
Curufin wanted me to tell you to stop spreading these vicious rumors about him. His role in that kinslaying was greatly exagerated. Celegorm talked him into the whole thing and once they got there - he said he was a pansy if he left. So he *had* to take part.




----- Original Message ----
From: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net"
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 11:10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod


Celegorm and Curufin are to blame for the second:



Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn- felagund. livejournal. com/profile

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org
~oOo~



Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --0-1761767281-1181537117=:68086-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1001 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77605 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 17:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 17:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.23) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 17:06:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2007 17:05:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2007 17:05:23 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:05:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=2AHDiECUe_vE5bN27gzd_HC1i18mJW64PkEzy-Jl5Lj3ommgJhX-jg X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@ wrote: I = did find an interesting note from CT that > > indicated that he thought JR= RT might have once considered having > < *both* twins die on the ships. Ma= ybe this is why they were never > > given more of a role? I suppose it's a= nyone's guess. :) > I remember that note. It comes in the section about = Eol and Aredhel and Maeglin in a later HoME...Morgoth's Ring or War of the= Jewels. I should point out that it is speculation only on CJRT's part - = JRRT never wrote that both twins died in the ships. Rather, all throughou= t this section, he refers repeatedly to the "Five Sons of F=EBanor" rather= than the (by that time well-established) Seven Sons. So the question be= comes - why 5? Did he forget about the twins? Did he think they were bot= h dead? Or did he think they were just too far south and out of the actio= n of this part of the story? We don't know. One solution (put forward by= Christopher) is that maybe they were both burned in the ships. But...tha= t's all that is. CJRT's fanon, if you will ;). >From the point of view o= f a fanfic writer, I often wonder about the shifting power dynamics among = F=EBanor's sons. Curufin clearly defers to Celegorm in the Beren/Luthien = story, even if he is the mastermind of their plans. I assume it's just be= cause Celegorm is the older brother and a competent leader. But in that c= ase...Maedhros is all that and more ;). He is *clearly* the leader throug= hout the Watchful Peace - he orders his brothers around and they do what h= e says, whether they agree with him or not. But Unnumbered Tears is the U= nion of Maedhros - it was his leadership that led the Noldor into that di= sastrous battle. It is said that afterwards, the Noldor no longer trusted= non-Edain Men. Well, what of Maedhros? Did his brothers trust him, did = they continue to follow him? I think...not. His leadership is weakened. = It was Celegorm and Curufin who were keen on attacking Doriath prior to t= he 5th battle. And afterwards...they do. So, I have to assume that Maedh= ros has lost face, and no longer has the power to restrain his brothers. = If he forswears his Oath, but the twins insist upon attacking Sirion...tha= t makes this even more clear. In a way, the story of the twins instigatin= g at Sirion fits well. F=EBanor caused the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, of c= ourse. (And died not long afterwards) Then the Troublemakers fell on Dor= iath, and all met their ends. Then the twins decide to take out Sirion, a= nd die in the process. Then (a part absent from the early stories) Maedhr= os and Maglor attack Eonw=EB's camp *at Maedhros' insistence* and Maedhros= dies. A kind of instant retribution, if you will.... Maglor remains th= e only F=EBanorean who did not plan a Kinslaying (though he participated i= n all 4), and thus the sole survivor. What do you all think? Marie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1002 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2936 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 18:13:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 18:13:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 18:13:06 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [193.17.41.74]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 440692316BB for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:09:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18BE58070 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:04:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:04:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:04:40 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <141328558.20070611200440@tlen.pl> To: marielprosser In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=MAOJpIIfyFbTmAxC01yqxLyB64TlAbTTlTbGpNjnfjICWjLoxMU X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Marie and folks on the list :) m> Or did he think they were just too far south and out m> of the action of this part of the story? That would be my interpretation. I almost never remember of their existence - in fact I would have forgotten them if not their red hair ;) So I'm having them as a kind of less politically involved brothers far in the south. Busy in making friends with Laiquendi, hunting and keeping a sort of good old times refuge for other brothers when they got enough of fight and danger in the North. For brothers and cousins. They can always set south to Ambarussa and spend some time in wild forests having fun like in good old times in Aman. Two red haired keepers of sanity in the hardest times. Yet it makes them being the younger brothers kept behind older's backs for ever. Such vision is a bit contrary to aggressive twins before the Mouth of Sirion attack, I haven't heard of it before reading the list. But maybe they had enough of being 'younger', always kept safe in the back and never important. Or they had enough of that curse at all and sought ending in achieving a Silmaril or dying, what ever, just to stop this pointless existence. And it would match with the fact that always aggressors dies in these assaults. I agree also that Maedhros seems to be quite passive a lot of times. I don't think they were acting as a royal house - or how to call it,I'm lacking in nomenclature - with absolute power of the eldest over the rest. I rather see them having councils before acting where the most important would be the voice of the head. "Dispossessed have no king, Dispossessed need no king" ;P Am I contradicting myself? That's possible, ah. m> But...that's all that is. CJRT's fanon, if you will ;). Oh, I like this idea! Christopher's fanon. In truth - he is not the author so all his speculations are fan fiction as ours ;P m> From the point of view of a fanfic writer, I often wonder about the m> shifting power dynamics among F�anor's sons. Me too, usually in fiction they are under absolute power of the top red head. I can't believe it knowing the revolting characters of the brothers. m> Curufin clearly defers to Celegorm in the Beren/Luthien story, even if he is the mastermind m> of their plans. He is the mastermind, I believe he used Celegorm's passion to achieve his own goals. When they ride back it is Curufin who is aiming at Luthien with a bow, not Celegorm. Why is he trying to kill the girl. His brother can't have her, but I'm sure Celegorm would rather kill Beren not her, Curufin must know it. Then why? m> I assume it's just because Celegorm is the older brother and a competent leader. I can't believe Celegorm ruling in this pair. My Celegorm is a free soul, not a leader, he is forced to act as one by the oath and all the events which led them to Beleriand. While Curufin is exactly "a little father", with all father's qualities including a lust for power. Yet he is steady and lets Celegorm do all the mess and shouting, while he makes his plans come true. That's the way I see them, smooth operator and his loud hasty brother, officially ruling together not one upon another. I can't imagine Celegorm giving an order to Curufin O_o But I can imagine Maedhros in such way, and only him - because of Thangorodrim and change he went through there. Yet it would be last thing Maedhros would like - to rely on orders, he wants his brothers to obey him out of respect and love. m> Maedhros is all that and more ;). He is *clearly* the leader throughout the Watchful m> Peace - he orders his brothers around and they do what he says, m> whether they agree with him or not. I believe they do it when they understand and agree with his word. But no total absolute authority as I said before. Of course we're still talking of our visions, no idea what way JRRT saw it. There is respect and trust in Maedhros, not only among F�anorians but also among Fingolfin's people since he never gave in to Morgoth, suffered a lot and then gave the crown away to Fingolfin. He's got a lot of charisma after Thangorodrim, but I doubt brothers would follow if he ordered them something against fulfilling the oath. They can accept anything as long as it leads to fulfilling the oath, even giving away the useless crown. Yes, useless, I don't think people of Fingolfin would follow Maedhros as a king, but they look at him in a different light since he gave the crown away. m> But Unnumbered Tears is the Union of Maedhros - it was his leadership that led the Noldor into that m> disastrous battle. It is said that afterwards, the Noldor no longer m> trusted non-Edain Men. Well, what of Maedhros? Did his brothers m> trust him, did they continue to follow him? I think...not. I think rather Maedhros will never again trust Caranthir if he makes new allies, that's certain. Nor trust any Mortal men. That was Caranthir's allies joining the union, not Maedhros'. Poor Caranthir, he trusted evil people. I wonder what did it look like - has Uldor & Co been presented to Maedhros before joining the union or it was the first meeting when Caranthir led all the Easterlings to the battle? I agree that Maedhros wasn't a leader after the battle, though. Simply because he had the consciousness that he led all the eves and their allies to disaster, he broke down. Survived the terror of Morgoth, but gave up under consciousness of this battle. I believe then all brothers went in their own directions for a while, before they gathered again. m> His leadership is weakened. It was Celegorm and Curufin who were keen on m> attacking Doriath prior to the 5th battle. And afterwards...they do. Oops, I missed that information! Good to know. m> In a way, the story of the twins instigating at Sirion fits well. m> F�anor caused the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, of course. (And died not m> long afterwards) Then the Troublemakers fell on Doriath, and all met m> their ends. Then the twins decide to take out Sirion, and die in the m> process. Then (a part absent from the early stories) Maedhros and m> Maglor attack Eonw�'s camp *at Maedhros' insistence* and Maedhros m> dies. A kind of instant retribution, if you will.... Maglor remains m> the only F�anorean who did not plan a Kinslaying (though he m> participated in all 4), and thus the sole survivor. And there is something in it! I wrote a similar idea above before reading your words. That proves that really twins could be the aggressors to lead to MoS assault. Yet I believe Maedhros wasn't passive there, I believe they voted to attack but he led the army. I'm afraid I contradict myself a lot here. There is always a battle inside between who they are - seem to be - and who I would like them to be ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61844 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 18:45:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 18:45:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 18:45:37 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c24.19b7f468 (32914) for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:19:15 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1181585955" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Starting with Amras/Amrod drifting into other questions re the end-story X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=PDbP1JnIQcK0Z3dWmm5RXKUgcees1805dpOQr1myzdK5gb43rMJ- X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1181585955 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So, I have to assume that Maedhros has lost face, and no longer has the p= ower to restrain his brothers. If he forswears his Oath, but the twins in= sist upon attacking Sirion...that makes this even more clear. In a way, = the story of the twins instigating at Sirion fits well. F=EBanor caused t= he Kinslaying at Alqualonde, of course. (And died not long afterwards) Th= en the Troublemakers fell on Doriath and all met their ends. Then the twi= ns decide to take out Sirion, and die in the process. Then (a part absent= from the early stories) Maedhros and Maglor attack Eonw=EB's camp *at Ma= edhros' insistence* and Maedhros dies. A kind of instant retribution, if = you will.... Maglor remains the only F=EBanorean who did not plan a Kinsl= aying (though he participated in all 4), and thus the sole survivor. L= ove the above speculation. I had not seen the symmetry of the death of eac= h of the brothers in this way before, but had noted the other parts and w= orked them into my own "backstory" or personal canon. However, on the ques= tion of Maedhros, I agree with you that he had lost face and the power to= restrain the others after the Nirnaeth Arnoediad--but the earlier Maedhr= os could have overcome that; my theory was that after the magnitude of th= e slaughter and defeat there (when he believed himself to have come so cl= ose to organizing victory) and the death of Fingon that the rest of his s= tory reads as though something had snapped in him, that he was broken. (O= ne of the reasons I am not that particularly taken with the stories of a = broken, defeated Maedhros after his rescue from Thangorodrim is how pro-a= ctive and energetic he is for so many centuries following that.) It alway= s feel to me that his real torture and defeat was the N.A. He feels to me= for the rest of the story like he has given up, except that the attempt = to regain the Silmarili after the War of Wrath was an almost perfunctory = last gesture. When I first read that they actually succeeded in getting t= heir hands on them I was totally stunned. I have retained the feeling tha= t they might have been too... ************************************= ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1181585955 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
So, = I have to assume that Maedhros has lost face, and no longer has
the po= wer to restrain his brothers. If he forswears his Oath, but the
twins = insist upon attacking Sirion...that makes this even more clear.

In= a way, the story of the twins instigating at Sirion fits well.
F=EBan= or caused the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, of course. (And died not
long = afterwards) Then the Troublemakers fell on Doriath and all met
th= eir ends. Then the twins decide to take out Sirion, and die in the
pro= cess. Then (a part absent from the early stories) Maedhros and
Maglor = attack Eonw=EB's camp *at Maedhros' insistence* and Maedhros
dies. A ki= nd of instant retribution, if you will.... Maglor remains
the only F= =EBanorean who did not plan a Kinslaying (though he
participated in al= l 4), and thus the sole survivor.
 
Love the above speculation. I had not seen th= e symmetry of the death of each of the brothers in this way before, but ha= d noted the other parts and worked them into my own "backstory" or persona= l canon. However, on the question of Maedhros, I agree with you that he ha= d lost face and the power to restrain the others after the Nirnaeth Arnoed= iad--but the earlier Maedhros could have overcome that; my theory was that= after the magnitude of the slaughter and defeat there (when he = believed himself to have come so close to organizing victory) and the deat= h of Fingon that the rest of his story reads as though something had snapp= ed in him, that he was broken. (One of the reasons I am not that part= icularly taken with the stories of a broken, defeated Maedhros after = his rescue from Thangorodrim is how pro-active and energetic he is for so = many centuries following that.) It always feel to me that his real to= rture and defeat was the N.A. He feels to me for the rest of the stor= y like he has given up, except that the attempt to regain the Silmarili af= ter the War of Wrath was an almost perfunctory last gesture. When I fi= rst read that they actually succeeded in getting their hands on them = I was totally stunned. I have retained the feeling that they might ha= ve been too...
 

 
<= BR>

See what's free at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1181585955-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1004 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20020 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 19:20:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 19:20:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.216) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 19:20:05 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n33.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2007 19:17:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2007 19:17:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2007 19:17:29 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:17:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Starting with Amras/Amrod drifting into other questions re the end-story X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=Z4SuZYjKYIGUfPiRRfxO7mILOupGEUkz6Yvw9wukheeR-FwlDTKx6WQ3 X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses I agree. Before the Nirnaeth he thought that he c= ould defeat Morgoth, fulfil the Oath,and recover at least two Silmarili al= l at once . After the defeat and slaughter of so many people (among them h= is cousin/best friend/ ally/lover/you decide), he realized that he had fai= led and there wouldn't be another chance and the only thing he was left wi= th was the Oath that could not be fulfilled but could not be renounced ei= ther. Tragic character, indeed. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12686 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 19:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 19:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc14.comcast.net) (206.18.177.54) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 19:38:05 -0000 Received: from amailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.225.101]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070611193636b14001hv49e>; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:36:36 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter01.comcast.net; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:36:34 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:36:34 +0000 Message-Id: <061120071936.264.466DA4420009BE470000010822120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=P6Aa3ZQDTIg1ID27VqzgYrlnvXT0KUzMxBc_UDo55x1rVYUwI5aP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "marielprosser" > So the question > becomes - why 5? Did he forget about the twins? Did he think they > were both dead? Or did he think they were just too far south and out > of the action of this part of the story? We don't know. One solution > (put forward by Christopher) is that maybe they were both burned in > the ships. But...that's all that is. CJRT's fanon, if you will ;). *snicker* So we're all guilty of it. ;) In having done this quick research jaunt about the twins, I still see them as characters that JRRT hadn't fully decided how to handle yet. It seems to me that he works very hard to carve a niche for each of the Feanorians ... but not the twins. Not only do they have few characteristics unique from their brothers but they're the same character except for names and (by some accounts in HoMe, minor variations in appearance). I think that JRRT simply wanted Feanor to have seven sons. From a practical perspective, that explains how a disfavored family still held such power (and--shameless Monty Python quote here--*HUGE* tracts of land) and why the sons of Feanor posed such a formidable foe to, say, Thingol of Doriath. I think I even remember reading in the HoMe that Thingol didn't want to seek justice for Celegorn & Curufin's deeds against Luthien because he knew that it would force him to go against all seven sons of Feanor, and who wants that? Nothing short of a Silmaril inspires that sort of stupidity. ;) But from a writer's perspective, the seven sons pose a problem. Each needs a distinct character and dynamic with regards to the rest of his family ... and I get the feeling that JRRT hadn't *quite* gotten that far with the twins, as evidenced by their various conflicting roles: passive, aggressive, *dead*. But this is, of course, my personal crazy theory, not to be taken as canon or even a fanon-type thing. :) > From the point of view of a fanfic writer, I often wonder about the > shifting power dynamics among F�anor's sons. You bring up a lot of interesting points. I'd never thought about a loss of face for Maedhros before in the eyes of his brothers before. It certainly seems a plausible explanation. To me, it's always felt like in agreeing to attack Doriath, Maedhros was simply succumbing to an inevitable course of action. Before Beren and Luthien got a hold of one, Morgoth held all of the Silmarils, so the Feanorians' oath coincided quite nicely with their attack on Morgoth. Maedhros was inspired into the Union of Maedhros by the deeds of Beren and Luthien; I can almost imagine him thinking, "Well, if a mortal and a girl can do it, then surely, the allied forces of Elves and Men can finish the job!" Once they lost the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, though, they had two options for pursuing the oath. Morgoth still held two Silmarils, but experience had proven that these would be harder to come by. Then Dior held another, which seemed a much more attainable goal. "Celegorm stirred up his brothers" to attack Doriath, true, but I can't really see Maedhros disagreeing with this idea, given the alternative of attacking Morgoth. And it is said the oath was tormenting them at this time, so they were driven to do *something,* and attacking Doriath is certainly the more logical choice. Maedhros did attempt diplomacy first (at least, I seem to recall Maedhros specifically being mentioned in the HoMe; I'm too lazy to look :^P), so it seems that it was on his mind. Once his requests were refused/ignored, there were few other options but to attack or bear the torment of the oath. On Celegorm and Curufin, I've always seen Celegorm as the face and Curufin as the brain. Celegorm seems very skilled with languages: He is able to speak with animals, and twice, his persuasive powers convince people to do something that seems rather foolish in retrospect. He is the impetus behind the attack on Doriath and also encourages the people of Nargothrond to reject Finrod when he sets out to fulfill his oath to Barahir. He seems to take after Feanor in this, in his gift for language and also persuasion (and foolishness. :^P) Again, not canon but just my particular breed of fanon contrived by connecting the various canon dots. Curufin the crafty, less charismatic than Celegorm, seems to set the plans in place, at least in my personal verse. There is no doubt that Celegorm is ambitious, but without Curufin, I wonder if his plans would ever come to fruition. > In a way, the story of the twins instigating at Sirion fits well. > F�anor caused the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, of course. (And died not > long afterwards) Then the Troublemakers fell on Doriath, and all met > their ends. Then the twins decide to take out Sirion, and die in the > process. Then (a part absent from the early stories) Maedhros and > Maglor attack Eonw�'s camp *at Maedhros' insistence* and Maedhros > dies. A kind of instant retribution, if you will.... Maglor remains > the only F�anorean who did not plan a Kinslaying (though he > participated in all 4), and thus the sole survivor. I've always thought it an important fact that none of the Feanorians died in battle with Morgoth/evil. With the exception of Aredhel who was murdered and Galadriel who doesn't die at all, the first two generations of the House of Finwe in Middle-earth die in battle with evil *except* the Feanorians. The first three died in a kinslaying. The next two died in a kinslaying and possibly by the hands of their own people. The sixth (Maedhros) died by his own hand. Who knows if and how Maglor died, but his end either way is far from noble. It is even specifically mentioned that each son of Feanor was wounded at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad ... but not one of them died. And the connection between instigation and death in the HoMe are too interesting to ignore as well. The only problem I see with correlating death and planning a kinslaying, per se, is that I don't think that it can be said that Caranthir had any part in planning, unless I'm missing something important from the HoMe (which is quite likely, as I haven't done a search for Caranthir yet). The HoMe says that Curufin and Celegorm vowed to slay Thingol or any of his people that they met, in war or in peace, but Caranthir isn't explicitly involved in this, as I recall. In fact, Caranthir strikes me as another character who was never fully developed to his potential. Aside from rabble-rousing with the sons of Finarfin shortly after arriving in Beleriand and calling the Dwarves ugly and taxing them to make himself rich, he has never struck me as quite as bad a bad boy as Celegorm and Curufin, though he often gets lumped in with them. (And I, as an author, am guilty of this too: I have my own elaborate theory of how these three characters will later come to relate; the shifts in power and a llegiance, all Felakfanon, of course. ;) His aid to Haleth's people scores big points for him, in my opinion. His allegiance with the traitorous Men was poor judgment more than a moral failing. Caranthir has always struck me as perhaps the most mysterious of the sons of Feanor; the only one who is not assigned a particular talent or ambition yet somehow has earned that ominous epithet "the dark," who reacts hatefully towards the Dwaves yet with extraordinary tolerance towards Men. And according to the HoMe, he was only one of three of the sons who was married. It's no wonder that I write so much about him! (That and I think I know every rabid Caranthir fangirl on the Internet! :^P) Well, I think that covers them all except Maglor. Maglor is worthy of a post unto himself! :^D Dawn, loquacious today -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1006 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22273 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 19:49:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 19:49:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.91) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 19:49:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 76574 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2007 18:57:57 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: YUEaGnAVM1nanhMdmlL6kKh2UL9uugD_Rzx96pR7_9qnvW3SsQ1KUVMM0xUZYJZz8rUqV8gcBxiGCPDS_jkgWbeULg-- Received: from [75.183.97.25] by web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:57:57 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23.1 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.14 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:57:57 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1424600762-1181588277=:76532" Message-ID: <777629.76532.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=Jn-6KvfoneahJlMwrPluydg9eeF8g7FdBVQG1Q53tveInt_yoA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1424600762-1181588277=:76532 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is my two cents and alot of it is based on the way I want to think I'= ll admit lol Maedhros was the leader if his brothers agreed with his plans= . Like all families, there is a type of - mess with me or my family and we'= ll stick together but I can talk sh*t about them all I want. Anyone with si= blings knows how you frequently disagree and without mom and dad to 'lay do= wn the law' like they did when the siblings are childre - they tend to go w= hatever way they want. All of them being strong willed males really enforce= d that thinking. Another thing to note is that Celegorm was the hotheaded = one in the incident with Finrod's people as well as kidnapping Luthien. Cur= ufin was the calm one. But they both showed hotheaded behavior dealing with= Beren and Luthien. I think the two of them fed each others passion about g= etting the Silmaril back and they were definately 'partners in crime'. Th= e twins were never the ones that the other brothers turned to in their hour= of need. Perhaps the MoS kinslaying was their way of saying that they coul= d be strong leaders as well. ----- Original Message ---- From: Sirielle <= sirielle@tlen.pl> To: marielprosser Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 2:04:40 PM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter= sGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod Ai Ma= rie and folks on the list :) m> Or did he think they were just too far = south and out m> of the action of this part of the story? That would b= e my interpretation. I almost never remember of their existence - in fact = I would have forgotten them if not their red hair ;) So I'm having them as= a kind of less politically involved brothers far in the south. Busy in ma= king friends with Laiquendi, hunting and keeping a sort of good old times = refuge for other brothers when they got enough of fight and danger in the = North. For brothers and cousins. They can always set south to Ambarussa an= d spend some time in wild forests having fun like in good old times in Ama= n. Two red haired keepers of sanity in the hardest times. Yet it makes the= m being the younger brothers kept behind older's backs for ever. Such v= ision is a bit contrary to aggressive twins before the Mouth of Sirion att= ack, I haven't heard of it before reading the list. But maybe they had eno= ugh of being 'younger', always kept safe in the back and never important. = Or they had enough of that curse at all and sought ending in achieving a S= ilmaril or dying, what ever, just to stop this pointless existence. And it= would match with the fact that always aggressors dies in these assaults. = I agree also that Maedhros seems to be quite passive a lot of times. I d= on't think they were acting as a royal house - or how to call it,I'm lack= ing in nomenclature - with absolute power of the eldest over the rest. I ra= ther see them having councils before acting where the most important would= be the voice of the head. "Dispossessed have no king, Dispossessed need n= o king" ;P Am I contradicting myself? That's possible, ah. m> But...= that's all that is. CJRT's fanon, if you will ;). Oh, I like this idea!= Christopher' s fanon. In truth - he is not the author so all his speculat= ions are fan fiction as ours ;P m> From the point of view of a fanfic = writer, I often wonder about the m> shifting power dynamics among F=EBano= r's sons. Me too, usually in fiction they are under absolute power of th= e top red head. I can't believe it knowing the revolting characters of the= brothers. m> Curufin clearly defers to Celegorm in the Beren/Luthien s= tory, even if he is the mastermind m> of their plans. He is the master= mind, I believe he used Celegorm's passion to achieve his own goals. When = they ride back it is Curufin who is aiming at Luthien with a bow, not Cele= gorm. Why is he trying to kill the girl. His brother can't have her, but I= 'm sure Celegorm would rather kill Beren not her, Curufin must know it. Th= en why? m> I assume it's just because Celegorm is the older brother and = a competent leader. I can't believe Celegorm ruling in this pair. My Cel= egorm is a free soul, not a leader, he is forced to act as one by the oath= and all the events which led them to Beleriand. While Curufin is exactly = "a little father", with all father's qualities including a lust for power.= Yet he is steady and lets Celegorm do all the mess and shouting, while he = makes his plans come true. That's the way I see them, smooth operator and = his loud hasty brother, officially ruling together not one upon another. I= can't imagine Celegorm giving an order to Curufin O_o But I can imagine = Maedhros in such way, and only him - because of Thangorodrim and change he= went through there. Yet it would be last thing Maedhros would like - to r= ely on orders, he wants his brothers to obey him out of respect and love. = m> Maedhros is all that and more ;). He is *clearly* the leader throug= hout the Watchful m> Peace - he orders his brothers around and they do wh= at he says, m> whether they agree with him or not. I believe they do = it when they understand and agree with his word. But no total absolute aut= hority as I said before. Of course we're still talking of our visions, no = idea what way JRRT saw it. There is respect and trust in Maedhros, not onl= y among F=EBanorians but also among Fingolfin's people since he never gave= in to Morgoth, suffered a lot and then gave the crown away to Fingolfin. = He's got a lot of charisma after Thangorodrim, but I doubt brothers would = follow if he ordered them something against fulfilling the oath. They can = accept anything as long as it leads to fulfilling the oath, even giving aw= ay the useless crown. Yes, useless, I don't think people of Fingolfin woul= d follow Maedhros as a king, but they look at him in a different light sin= ce he gave the crown away. m> But Unnumbered Tears is the Union of Maed= hros - it was his leadership that led the Noldor into that m> disastrous = battle. It is said that afterwards, the Noldor no longer m> trusted non-= Edain Men. Well, what of Maedhros? Did his brothers m> trust him, did = they continue to follow him? I think...not. I think rather Maedhros wil= l never again trust Caranthir if he makes new allies, that's certain. Nor = trust any Mortal men. That was Caranthir's allies joining the union, not M= aedhros'. Poor Caranthir, he trusted evil people. I wonder what did it loo= k like - has Uldor & Co been presented to Maedhros before joining the unio= n or it was the first meeting when Caranthir led all the Easterlings to th= e battle? I agree that Maedhros wasn't a leader after the battle, though= . Simply because he had the consciousness that he led all the eves and the= ir allies to disaster, he broke down. Survived the terror of Morgoth, but= gave up under consciousness of this battle. I believe then all brothers we= nt in their own directions for a while, before they gathered again. m> = His leadership is weakened. It was Celegorm and Curufin who were keen on= m> attacking Doriath prior to the 5th battle. And afterwards.. .they do= . Oops, I missed that information! Good to know. m> In a way, the st= ory of the twins instigating at Sirion fits well. m> F=EBanor caused the = Kinslaying at Alqualonde, of course. (And died not m> long afterwards) = Then the Troublemakers fell on Doriath, and all met m> their ends. Then = the twins decide to take out Sirion, and die in the m> process. Then (a = part absent from the early stories) Maedhros and m> Maglor attack Eonw=EB= 's camp *at Maedhros' insistence* and Maedhros m> dies. A kind of insta= nt retribution, if you will.... Maglor remains m> the only F=EBanorean w= ho did not plan a Kinslaying (though he m> participated in all 4), and t= hus the sole survivor. And there is something in it! I wrote a similar i= dea above before reading your words. That proves that really twins could b= e the aggressors to lead to MoS assault. Yet I believe Maedhros wasn't pa= ssive there, I believe they voted to attack but he led the army. I'm afr= aid I contradict myself a lot here. There is always a battle inside betwee= n who they are - seem to be - and who I would like them to be ;) Suilad= , Sirielle sirielle@tlen. pl http://www.isl= e. px.pl http://sirielle. deviantart. com/ ____= ___________________________________________________________________________= _____ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchm= arketing.yahoo.com/ --0-1424600762-1181588277=:76532 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 
This is my two cents and alot of it is based on t= he way I want to think I'll admit lol

Maedhros was the leader if his= brothers agreed with his plans. Like all families, there is a type of - me= ss with me or my family and we'll stick together but I can talk sh*t about = them all I want. Anyone with siblings knows how you frequently disagree and= without mom and dad to 'lay down the law' like they did when the siblings = are childre - they tend to go whatever way they want. All of them being str= ong willed males really enforced that thinking.

Another thing to not= e is that Celegorm was the hotheaded one in the incident with Finrod's peop= le as well as kidnapping Luthien. Curufin was the calm one. But they both s= howed hotheaded behavior dealing with Beren and Luthien. I think the two of= them fed each others passion about getting the Silmaril back and they wer= e definately 'partners in crime'.

The twins were never the ones tha= t the other brothers turned to in their hour of need. Perhaps the MoS kinsl= aying was their way of saying that they could be strong leaders as well.

----- Original Message ----
From: Sirielle &l= t;sirielle@tlen.pl>
To: marielprosser
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 2:04:40 PM
Subject: Re:= [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod

=

Ai Marie and folks on the list :)<= br>
m> Or did he think they were just too far south and out
m&= gt; of the action of this part of the story?

That would be my int= erpretation. I almost never remember of their
existence - in fact I wou= ld have forgotten them if not their red hair
;) So I'm having them as a= kind of less politically involved brothers far
in the south. Busy in m= aking friends with Laiquendi, hunting and
keeping a sort of good old ti= mes refuge for other brothers when they
got enough of fight and danger = in the North. For brothers and cousins. They can
always set south to Am= barussa and spend some time in wild forests
having fun like in good old= times in Aman. Two red haired keepers of
sanity in the hardest times. = Yet it makes them being the younger
brothers kept behind older's backs = for ever.

Such vision is a bit contrary to aggressive twins before= the Mouth of
Sirion attack, I haven't heard of it before reading the l= ist. But maybe
they had enough of being 'younger', always kept safe in = the back and
never important. Or they had enough of that curse at all a= nd sought
ending in achieving a Silmaril or dying, what ever, just to s= top this
pointless existence. And it would match with the fact that alw= ays
aggressors dies in these assaults.

I agree also that Maedh= ros seems to be quite passive a lot of times. I don't
think they were a= cting as a royal house - or how to call it,I'm
lacking in nomenclature = - with absolute power of the eldest over the rest. I rather see them having=
councils before acting where the most important would be the voice
= of the head. "Dispossessed have no king, Dispossessed need no king" ;P
=
Am I contradicting myself? That's possible, ah.

m> But..= .that's all that is. CJRT's fanon, if you will ;).

Oh, I like thi= s idea! Christopher' s fanon. In truth - he is not the
author so all hi= s speculations are fan fiction as ours ;P

m> From the point o= f view of a fanfic writer, I often wonder about the
m> shifting pow= er dynamics among F=EBanor's sons.

Me too, usually in fiction they= are under absolute power of the top
red head. I can't believe it knowi= ng the revolting characters of the
brothers.

m> Curufin cle= arly defers to Celegorm in the Beren/Luthien story, even if he is the maste= rmind
m> of their plans.

He is the mastermind, I believe h= e used Celegorm's passion to achieve
his own goals. When they ride back= it is Curufin who is aiming at
Luthien with a bow, not Celegorm. Why i= s he trying to kill the girl.
His brother can't have her, but I'm sure = Celegorm would rather kill
Beren not her, Curufin must know it. Then wh= y?

m> I assume it's just because Celegorm is the older brother = and a competent leader.

I can't believe Celegorm ruling in this pa= ir. My Celegorm is a free
soul, not a leader, he is forced to act as on= e by the oath and all the
events which led them to Beleriand. While Cur= ufin is exactly "a little father", with all father's qualities including a<= br> lust for power. Yet he is steady and lets Celegorm do all the mess and = shouting, while he makes his plans come
true. That's the way I see them= , smooth operator and his loud hasty
brother, officially ruling togethe= r not one upon another. I
can't imagine Celegorm giving an order to Cur= ufin O_o But I can imagine
Maedhros in such way, and only him - because= of Thangorodrim and change
he went through there. Yet it would be last= thing Maedhros would like -
to rely on orders, he wants his brothers t= o obey him out of respect
and love.

m> Maedhros is all tha= t and more ;). He is *clearly* the leader throughout the Watchful
m>= ; Peace - he orders his brothers around and they do what he says,
m&g= t; whether they agree with him or not.

I believe they do it when = they understand and agree with his
word. But no total absolute authorit= y as I said before. Of course
we're still talking of our visions, no id= ea what way JRRT saw it.
There is respect and trust in Maedhros, not on= ly among F=EBanorians but
also among Fingolfin's people since he never = gave in to
Morgoth, suffered a lot and then gave the crown away to Fing= olfin.
He's got a lot of charisma after Thangorodrim, but I doubt broth= ers would follow if he ordered them
something against fulfilling the oa= th. They can accept anything as long
as it leads to fulfilling the oath= , even giving away the useless
crown. Yes, useless, I don't think peopl= e of Fingolfin would follow
Maedhros as a king, but they look at him in= a different light since he
gave the crown away.

m> But Unn= umbered Tears is the Union of Maedhros - it was his leadership that led the= Noldor into that
m> disastrous battle. It is said that afterwards= , the Noldor no longer
m> trusted non-Edain Men. Well, what of Mae= dhros? Did his brothers
m> trust him, did they continue to follow= him? I think...not.

I think rather Maedhros will never again tru= st Caranthir if he makes new
allies, that's certain. Nor trust any Mort= al men. That was
Caranthir's allies joining the union, not Maedhros'. P= oor Caranthir, he
trusted evil people. I wonder what did it look like -= has Uldor & Co been presented to
Maedhros before joining the union= or it was the first meeting when Caranthir
led all the Easterlings to = the battle?

I agree that Maedhros wasn't a leader after the battle= , though. Simply
because he had the consciousness that he led all the e= ves and their
allies to disaster, he broke down. Survived the terror of= Morgoth,
but gave up under consciousness of this battle. I believe the= n all brothers went in their own
directions for a while, before they ga= thered again.

m> His leadership is weakened. It was Celegorm= and Curufin who were keen on
m> attacking Doriath prior to the 5th= battle. And afterwards.. .they do.

Oops, I missed that informati= on! Good to know.

m> In a way, the story of the twins instigat= ing at Sirion fits well.
m> F=EBanor caused the Kinslaying at Alqua= londe, of course. (And died not
m> long afterwards) Then the Trou= blemakers fell on Doriath, and all met
m> their ends. Then the twi= ns decide to take out Sirion, and die in the
m> process. Then (a p= art absent from the early stories) Maedhros and
m> Maglor attack Eo= nw=EB's camp *at Maedhros' insistence* and Maedhros
m> dies. A ki= nd of instant retribution, if you will.... Maglor remains
m> the o= nly F=EBanorean who did not plan a Kinslaying (though he
m> partic= ipated in all 4), and thus the sole survivor.

And there is somethi= ng in it! I wrote a similar idea above before
reading your words. That = proves that really twins could be the
aggressors to lead to MoS assault= . Yet I believe Maedhros wasn't
passive there, I believe they voted to = attack but he led the army.

I'm afraid I contradict myself a lot h= ere. There is always a battle
inside between who they are - seem to be = - and who I would like them to be
;)

Suilad,
Sirielle =

sirielle@tlen. pl
http://www.isle. px.pl
http://sirielle. deviantart. com/

=


8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a fl= ick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.= --0-1424600762-1181588277=:76532-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1007 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40889 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 20:07:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 20:07:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web58307.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.160) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 20:07:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 20823 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2007 20:06:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: O0RHgl0VM1mnAVPLsyMTZIyZR52nF69mE.m9g3hrHavzaaWTmKn25BNV2uhUmzLxG6vTdnjAewMrTmM.bEmsKAtLIgZG1NxpKUmJ73xXsDKbzHJufljkuJjhrWhmbDQ07KGAHt_tId5Hr_2brSITNQmlLg-- Received: from [71.235.106.34] by web58307.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:06:01 PDT Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:06:01 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <061120071936.264.466DA4420009BE470000010822120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1000216258-1181592361=:20029" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <745872.20029.qm@web58307.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Niki S." Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=FxrDJ33s_XmnFvAsS-jt1wQc68fLzBTZFhquBiPKRH7IqNQqXA X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes --0-1000216258-1181592361=:20029 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "I think that JRRT simply wanted Feanor to have seven sons." Makes the science nerd in me think of white light (and the color black) and the seven colors of the visible light spectrum... and now the image of the Feanoreans marching into battle with rainbow flags is making me giggle! -Pulsarkat DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote: From: "marielprosser" > So the question > becomes - why 5? Did he forget about the twins? Did he think they > were both dead? Or did he think they were just too far south and out > of the action of this part of the story? We don't know. One solution > (put forward by Christopher) is that maybe they were both burned in > the ships. But...that's all that is. CJRT's fanon, if you will ;). *snicker* So we're all guilty of it. ;) In having done this quick research jaunt about the twins, I still see them as characters that JRRT hadn't fully decided how to handle yet. It seems to me that he works very hard to carve a niche for each of the Feanorians ... but not the twins. Not only do they have few characteristics unique from their brothers but they're the same character except for names and (by some accounts in HoMe, minor variations in appearance). I think that JRRT simply wanted Feanor to have seven sons. From a practical perspective, that explains how a disfavored family still held such power (and--shameless Monty Python quote here--*HUGE* tracts of land) and why the sons of Feanor posed such a formidable foe to, say, Thingol of Doriath. I think I even remember reading in the HoMe that Thingol didn't want to seek justice for Celegorn & Curufin's deeds against Luthien because he knew that it would force him to go against all seven sons of Feanor, and who wants that? Nothing short of a Silmaril inspires that sort of stupidity. ;) But from a writer's perspective, the seven sons pose a problem. Each needs a distinct character and dynamic with regards to the rest of his family ... and I get the feeling that JRRT hadn't *quite* gotten that far with the twins, as evidenced by their various conflicting roles: passive, aggressive, *dead*. But this is, of course, my personal crazy theory, not to be taken as canon or even a fanon-type thing. :) > From the point of view of a fanfic writer, I often wonder about the > shifting power dynamics among F�anor's sons. You bring up a lot of interesting points. I'd never thought about a loss of face for Maedhros before in the eyes of his brothers before. It certainly seems a plausible explanation. To me, it's always felt like in agreeing to attack Doriath, Maedhros was simply succumbing to an inevitable course of action. Before Beren and Luthien got a hold of one, Morgoth held all of the Silmarils, so the Feanorians' oath coincided quite nicely with their attack on Morgoth. Maedhros was inspired into the Union of Maedhros by the deeds of Beren and Luthien; I can almost imagine him thinking, "Well, if a mortal and a girl can do it, then surely, the allied forces of Elves and Men can finish the job!" Once they lost the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, though, they had two options for pursuing the oath. Morgoth still held two Silmarils, but experience had proven that these would be harder to come by. Then Dior held another, which seemed a much more attainable goal. "Celegorm stirred up his brothers" to attack Doriath, true, but I can't really see Maedhros disagreeing with this idea, given the alternative of attacking Morgoth. And it is said the oath was tormenting them at this time, so they were driven to do *something,* and attacking Doriath is certainly the more logical choice. Maedhros did attempt diplomacy first (at least, I seem to recall Maedhros specifically being mentioned in the HoMe; I'm too lazy to look :^P), so it seems that it was on his mind. Once his requests were refused/ignored, there were few other options but to attack or bear the torment of the oath. On Celegorm and Curufin, I've always seen Celegorm as the face and Curufin as the brain. Celegorm seems very skilled with languages: He is able to speak with animals, and twice, his persuasive powers convince people to do something that seems rather foolish in retrospect. He is the impetus behind the attack on Doriath and also encourages the people of Nargothrond to reject Finrod when he sets out to fulfill his oath to Barahir. He seems to take after Feanor in this, in his gift for language and also persuasion (and foolishness. :^P) Again, not canon but just my particular breed of fanon contrived by connecting the various canon dots. Curufin the crafty, less charismatic than Celegorm, seems to set the plans in place, at least in my personal verse. There is no doubt that Celegorm is ambitious, but without Curufin, I wonder if his plans would ever come to fruition. > In a way, the story of the twins instigating at Sirion fits well. > F�anor caused the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, of course. (And died not > long afterwards) Then the Troublemakers fell on Doriath, and all met > their ends. Then the twins decide to take out Sirion, and die in the > process. Then (a part absent from the early stories) Maedhros and > Maglor attack Eonw�'s camp *at Maedhros' insistence* and Maedhros > dies. A kind of instant retribution, if you will.... Maglor remains > the only F�anorean who did not plan a Kinslaying (though he > participated in all 4), and thus the sole survivor. I've always thought it an important fact that none of the Feanorians died in battle with Morgoth/evil. With the exception of Aredhel who was murdered and Galadriel who doesn't die at all, the first two generations of the House of Finwe in Middle-earth die in battle with evil *except* the Feanorians. The first three died in a kinslaying. The next two died in a kinslaying and possibly by the hands of their own people. The sixth (Maedhros) died by his own hand. Who knows if and how Maglor died, but his end either way is far from noble. It is even specifically mentioned that each son of Feanor was wounded at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad ... but not one of them died. And the connection between instigation and death in the HoMe are too interesting to ignore as well. The only problem I see with correlating death and planning a kinslaying, per se, is that I don't think that it can be said that Caranthir had any part in planning, unless I'm missing something important from the HoMe (which is quite likely, as I haven't done a search for Caranthir yet). The HoMe says that Curufin and Celegorm vowed to slay Thingol or any of his people that they met, in war or in peace, but Caranthir isn't explicitly involved in this, as I recall. In fact, Caranthir strikes me as another character who was never fully developed to his potential. Aside from rabble-rousing with the sons of Finarfin shortly after arriving in Beleriand and calling the Dwarves ugly and taxing them to make himself rich, he has never struck me as quite as bad a bad boy as Celegorm and Curufin, though he often gets lumped in with them. (And I, as an author, am guilty of this too: I have my own elaborate theory of how these three characters will later come to relate; the shifts in power and a llegiance, all Felakfanon, of course. ;) His aid to Haleth's people scores big points for him, in my opinion. His allegiance with the traitorous Men was poor judgment more than a moral failing. Caranthir has always struck me as perhaps the most mysterious of the sons of Feanor; the only one who is not assigned a particular talent or ambition yet somehow has earned that ominous epithet "the dark," who reacts hatefully towards the Dwaves yet with extraordinary tolerance towards Men. And according to the HoMe, he was only one of three of the sons who was married. It's no wonder that I write so much about him! (That and I think I know every rabid Caranthir fangirl on the Internet! :^P) Well, I think that covers them all except Maglor. Maglor is worthy of a post unto himself! :^D Dawn, loquacious today -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. --0-1000216258-1181592361=:20029 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "I think that JRRT simply wanted Feanor to have seven sons."

Makes the science nerd in me think of white light (and the color black) and the seven colors of the visible light spectrum... and now the image of the Feanoreans marching into battle with rainbow flags is making me giggle!

-Pulsarkat


DawnFelagund@comcast.net wrote:
From: "marielprosser"

> So the question
> becomes - why 5? Did he forget about the twins? Did he think they
> were both dead? Or did he think they were just too far south and out
> of the action of this part of the story? We don't know. One solution
> (put forward by Christopher) is that maybe they were both burned in
> the ships. But...that's all that is. CJRT's fanon, if you will ;).

*snicker* So we're all guilty of it. ;)

In having done this quick research jaunt about the twins, I still see them as characters that JRRT hadn't fully decided how to handle yet. It seems to me that he works very hard to carve a niche for each of the Feanorians ... but not the twins. Not only do they have few characteristics unique from their brothers but they're the same character except for names and (by some accounts in HoMe, minor variations in appearance). I think that JRRT simply wanted Feanor to have seven sons. From a practical perspective, that explains how a disfavored family still held such power (and--shameless Monty Python quote here--*HUGE* tracts of land) and why the sons of Feanor posed such a formidable foe to, say, Thingol of Doriath. I think I even remember reading in the HoMe that Thingol didn't want to seek justice for Celegorn & Curufin's deeds against Luthien because he knew that it would force him to go against all seven sons of Feanor, and who wants that? Nothing short of a Silmaril inspires that
sort of stupidity. ;)

But from a writer's perspective, the seven sons pose a problem. Each needs a distinct character and dynamic with regards to the rest of his family ... and I get the feeling that JRRT hadn't *quite* gotten that far with the twins, as evidenced by their various conflicting roles: passive, aggressive, *dead*.

But this is, of course, my personal crazy theory, not to be taken as canon or even a fanon-type thing. :)

> From the point of view of a fanfic writer, I often wonder about the
> shifting power dynamics among F�anor's sons.

You bring up a lot of interesting points. I'd never thought about a loss of face for Maedhros before in the eyes of his brothers before. It certainly seems a plausible explanation. To me, it's always felt like in agreeing to attack Doriath, Maedhros was simply succumbing to an inevitable course of action. Before Beren and Luthien got a hold of one, Morgoth held all of the Silmarils, so the Feanorians' oath coincided quite nicely with their attack on Morgoth. Maedhros was inspired into the Union of Maedhros by the deeds of Beren and Luthien; I can almost imagine him thinking, "Well, if a mortal and a girl can do it, then surely, the allied forces of Elves and Men can finish the job!"

Once they lost the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, though, they had two options for pursuing the oath. Morgoth still held two Silmarils, but experience had proven that these would be harder to come by. Then Dior held another, which seemed a much more attainable goal. "Celegorm stirred up his brothers" to attack Doriath, true, but I can't really see Maedhros disagreeing with this idea, given the alternative of attacking Morgoth. And it is said the oath was tormenting them at this time, so they were driven to do *something,* and attacking Doriath is certainly the more logical choice. Maedhros did attempt diplomacy first (at least, I seem to recall Maedhros specifically being mentioned in the HoMe; I'm too lazy to look :^P), so it seems that it was on his mind. Once his requests were refused/ignored, there were few other options but to attack or bear the torment of the oath.

On Celegorm and Curufin, I've always seen Celegorm as the face and Curufin as the brain. Celegorm seems very skilled with languages: He is able to speak with animals, and twice, his persuasive powers convince people to do something that seems rather foolish in retrospect. He is the impetus behind the attack on Doriath and also encourages the people of Nargothrond to reject Finrod when he sets out to fulfill his oath to Barahir. He seems to take after Feanor in this, in his gift for language and also persuasion (and foolishness. :^P) Again, not canon but just my particular breed of fanon contrived by connecting the various canon dots.

Curufin the crafty, less charismatic than Celegorm, seems to set the plans in place, at least in my personal verse. There is no doubt that Celegorm is ambitious, but without Curufin, I wonder if his plans would ever come to fruition.

> In a way, the story of the twins instigating at Sirion fits well.
> F�anor caused the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, of course. (And died not
> long afterwards) Then the Troublemakers fell on Doriath, and all met
> their ends. Then the twins decide to take out Sirion, and die in the
> process. Then (a part absent from the early stories) Maedhros and
> Maglor attack Eonw�'s camp *at Maedhros' insistence* and Maedhros
> dies. A kind of instant retribution, if you will.... Maglor remains
> the only F�anorean who did not plan a Kinslaying (though he
> participated in all 4), and thus the sole survivor.

I've always thought it an important fact that none of the Feanorians died in battle with Morgoth/evil. With the exception of Aredhel who was murdered and Galadriel who doesn't die at all, the first two generations of the House of Finwe in Middle-earth die in battle with evil *except* the Feanorians. The first three died in a kinslaying. The next two died in a kinslaying and possibly by the hands of their own people. The sixth (Maedhros) died by his own hand. Who knows if and how Maglor died, but his end either way is far from noble. It is even specifically mentioned that each son of Feanor was wounded at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad ... but not one of them died. And the connection between instigation and death in the HoMe are too interesting to ignore as well.

The only problem I see with correlating death and planning a kinslaying, per se, is that I don't think that it can be said that Caranthir had any part in planning, unless I'm missing something important from the HoMe (which is quite likely, as I haven't done a search for Caranthir yet). The HoMe says that Curufin and Celegorm vowed to slay Thingol or any of his people that they met, in war or in peace, but Caranthir isn't explicitly involved in this, as I recall. In fact, Caranthir strikes me as another character who was never fully developed to his potential. Aside from rabble-rousing with the sons of Finarfin shortly after arriving in Beleriand and calling the Dwarves ugly and taxing them to make himself rich, he has never struck me as quite as bad a bad boy as Celegorm and Curufin, though he often gets lumped in with them. (And I, as an author, am guilty of this too: I have my own elaborate theory of how these three characters will later come to relate; the shifts in power and a
llegiance, all Felakfanon, of course. ;) His aid to Haleth's people scores big points for him, in my opinion. His allegiance with the traitorous Men was poor judgment more than a moral failing. Caranthir has always struck me as perhaps the most mysterious of the sons of Feanor; the only one who is not assigned a particular talent or ambition yet somehow has earned that ominous epithet "the dark," who reacts hatefully towards the Dwaves yet with extraordinary tolerance towards Men. And according to the HoMe, he was only one of three of the sons who was married. It's no wonder that I write so much about him! (That and I think I know every rabid Caranthir fangirl on the Internet! :^P)

Well, I think that covers them all except Maglor. Maglor is worthy of a post unto himself! :^D

Dawn, loquacious today

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile

Are you a relentless First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
~oOo~



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Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids. --0-1000216258-1181592361=:20029-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59950 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 20:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 20:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc14.comcast.net) (206.18.177.54) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 20:07:32 -0000 Received: from amailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.225.101]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070611200705b14001hpa9e>; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:07:05 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter01.comcast.net; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:07:05 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:07:05 +0000 Message-Id: <061120072007.27529.466DAB690001CE7C00006B8922120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=mhpFksirf95sTm41STRw4X-q0GjMTlzgs9E0ET-mbYSm_hgdYdr1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Sirielle > Such vision is a bit contrary to aggressive twins before the Mouth of > Sirion attack, I haven't heard of it before reading the list. But maybe > they had enough of being 'younger', always kept safe in the back and > never important. Or they had enough of that curse at all and sought > ending in achieving a Silmaril or dying, what ever, just to stop this > pointless existence. I'll admit that my first thought upon hearing about the twins' aggression at Sirion was, "That can't be! It makes no sense given the passive nature of their characters in the rest of the story!" But it's kind of intriguing to consider *both* ideas to be true and then find a way to connect them. I've been thinking about it and came up with a few explanations that aren't quite as AU as they sound but would be guaranteed to drive some canatics nuts. :^P -Sirielle's theory: that the twins are content as the owners/operators of the East Beleriand Green Resort and Spa. But why did they change? Maybe it's as Sirielle says and they grew tired of making their brothers do all of the dirty work. Maybe the Nirnaeth Arnoediad triggered something, like, "Hey, if we'd been more involved with the war instead of maintaining the golf greens, then the outcome wouldn't have been so disastrous!" Or maybe seeing the death of a beloved family member--Celegorm, maybe?--at the Nirnaeth or Doriath fueled their bloodlust. -My pet theory that the twins were protected by their older brothers and were intentionally kept in a non-dangerous realm and away from the worst of the action. After Doriath, however, with 60% of the warmongers dead, Maedhros and Maglor had no choice but to involve the twins more. And so we get their aggression at Sirion. -Totally crazy theory: the twins are, in fact, the most bloodthirsty and aggressive of the sons of Feanor. They make Celegorm and Curufin look like playful kittens. It was no accident that the twins got shut away in the forest, away from most other Elves. It was an accident (according to their brothers anyway) that invitations to parties and meetings always seemed to get lost in the mail. Dratted postal system ... After Doriath, though, the twins couldn't be kept out of the loop any longer, and so they started with Sirion. Silly ideas, yes, but I'd love to see someone write one of them! Actually, I'd love to see the twins written about more as it is ... or as more than the Weasleys with pointy ears. :^P > Why is he trying to kill the girl. > His brother can't have her, but I'm sure Celegorm would rather kill > Beren not her, Curufin must know it. Then why? Maybe Curufin recognizes her as the more symbolically important of the two. Her death would devastate Doriath and take that realm--and Thingol--beyond all hope. Beren's death would be terrible as well, but as long as Luthien lived, I could see hope also surviving. Luthien being so powerful could also likely heal Beren (as she does, at different points in the story), whereas Beren likely would not be able to heal her. So she's the more sensible target. > Yes, useless, I don't think people of Fingolfin would follow > Maedhros as a king, but they look at him in a different light since he > gave the crown away. That's always been my feeling too: that Maedhros *increased* his power by giving up the crown. And I don't mean that negatively, like he had a lust for power for power's sake, but rather that he recognized that a divided Noldorin people was useless against a united force of evil. And by the Noldorin reunion, he regained sympathy and influence for his house, especially among the rulers (Fingolfin and then Fingon). All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1009 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50068 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 21:04:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 21:04:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc16.comcast.net) (206.18.177.56) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 21:04:06 -0000 Received: from amailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.225.101]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070611201642b1600o1iu8e>; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:16:42 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter01.comcast.net; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:16:42 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:16:42 +0000 Message-Id: <061120072016.3811.466DADAA0001540E00000EE322120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=tQsMExpb1lBtztFCgl6Gy-cQzMcrO4EFj0TI39oNS_zvUf-157m6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "Niki S." > Makes the science nerd in me think of white light (and the color black) and the > seven colors of the visible light spectrum... and now the image of the > Feanoreans marching into battle with rainbow flags is making me giggle! *sporfle* Oh, I'm sure that the brouhaha that that would cause on ff.net would make the outcry over the purple Teletubby look like child's play! But yet, part of me kind of likes the idea too ... in my personal storyverse, Feanor is obsessed with white light and the idea that white light contains every possible color and so is the ultimate symbol of beauty. It also washes away flaws and shows the world for what it really is, which Feanor also likes. So yes, my Felakverse Feanor would probably not be opposed to rainbow battleflags. :^P (And his heraldry is rather rainbow-y: http://www.answers.com/topic/feanor-gif ) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1010 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77854 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 22:13:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 22:13:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.136.171) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 22:13:46 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.bb8.1497a97b (58550) for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:13:02 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1181599982" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=eXcuBzVcCPM4_QZh12vem4_Udoj1vvHVotrJ5C2oZ6j4nU5zMRNL X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1181599982 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/11/2007 3:09:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: That's always been my feeling too: that Maedhros *increased* his power by giving up the crown. And I don't mean that negatively, like he had a lust for power for power's sake, but rather that he recognized that a divided Noldorin people was useless against a united force of evil. And by the Noldorin reunion, he regained sympathy and influence for his house, especially among the rulers (Fingolfin and then Fingon). AMEN--that is absolutely my theory which I am trying to begin to pull together into some coherent, logical fictional layout as the basis for my story arc which begins with my long story "Maitimo and Findekano" and continues with my recently begun WIP novella "A New Day." (The series is really not a romance at all. It just looks like one.) I decided to write it in coherent stand-alone small parts (basically long short stories and novellas) so that people who might otherwise lose patience might stick with me. I am sure someday you will do it better, but meanwhile, I just have to take a shot at it. Hence my little summary sentence for "A New Day": "The second in a series which begins with my story "Maitimo and Findekano" and re-tells the tale of Fingon and Maedhros as life-long friends and lovers. After Thangorodrim, Fingon and Maedhros resolve to heal the divisions among the Noldor." This whole series of comments is fascinating, intelligent and thought-provoking. I intend to copy lots of it into my own "resource" section of my harddrive. Thanks, everyone! ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1181599982 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/11/2007 3:09:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.n= et writes:
That's always been my feelin= g too: that Maedhros *increased* his power by giving up the crown. And I= don't mean that negatively, like he had a lust for power for power's sa= ke, but rather that he recognized that a divided Noldorin people was use= less against a united force of evil. And by the Noldorin reunion, he reg= ained sympathy and influence for his house, especially among the rulers = (Fingolfin and then Fingon).
AMEN--that is absolutely my theory which I am trying to begin to pull tog= ether into some coherent, logical fictional layout as the basis for my stor= y arc which begins with my long story "Maitimo and Findekano" and continue= s with my recently begun WIP novella "A New Day." (The series is really no= t a romance at all. It just looks like one.)
 
= I decided to write it in coherent stand-alone small parts (basically long = short stories and novellas) so that people who might otherwise lose patienc= e might stick with me. I am sure someday you will do it better, but meanwh= ile, I just have to take a shot at it. Hence my little summary sentence fo= r "A New Day": "The second in a series which begins with my story "Maitimo= and Findekano" and re-tells the tale of Fingon and Maedhros as life-long = friends and lovers. After Thangorodrim, Fingon and Maedhros resolve to hea= l the divisions among the Noldor."
 
This whol= e series of comments is fascinating, intelligent and thought-pro= voking. I intend to copy lots of it into my own "resource" section of my h= arddrive. Thanks, everyone!



See what's free at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1181599982-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1011 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50635 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2007 23:13:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2007 23:13:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2007 23:13:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 788 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2007 21:28:30 -0000 Received: from [75.183.97.25] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:28:30 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23.1 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.14 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:28:30 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-244806283-1181597310=:97722" Message-ID: <697291.97722.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=UjqiuYGcYLCXvJM_fXQkEeykEGTgI6W6GYoyYZS9tCaBH2XCLg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-244806283-1181597310=:97722 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Noooooooooooo you didn't go there! Oh yeah you did. Now I am stuck with the visions of them dressed in color coordinated outfits and having a rainbow flag. *scrubs at my brain* You're ebol PulsarKat ----- Original Message ---- From: Niki S. To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 4:06:01 PM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod "I think that JRRT simply wanted Feanor to have seven sons." Makes the science nerd in me think of white light (and the color black) and the seven colors of the visible light spectrum... and now the image of the Feanoreans marching into battle with rainbow flags is making me giggle! -Pulsarkat ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ --0-244806283-1181597310=:97722 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii

 
Noooooooooooo you didn't go there!

Oh yeah you did. Now I am stuck with the visions of them dressed in color coordinated outfits and having a rainbow flag. *scrubs at my brain* You're ebol PulsarKat


----- Original Message ----
From: Niki S.
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 4:06:01 PM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about Amras/Amrod

"I think that JRRT simply wanted Feanor to have seven sons."

Makes the science nerd in me think of white light (and the color black) and the seven colors of the visible light spectrum... and now the image of the Feanoreans marching into battle with rainbow flags is making me giggle!

-Pulsarkat





You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck
in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --0-244806283-1181597310=:97722-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1012 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48999 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 12:49:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 12:49:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.133) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 12:49:28 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 12:49:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 12:49:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 12:49:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:49:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=AA-0EwLbyVnGI3uSGGNIPhhMo-K3aLbkzwfaqfjyS6lgw6_edHSWtWU X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "marielprosser" wrote: > > > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, = DawnFelagund@ wrote: > I did find an interesting note from CT that > > > i= ndicated that he thought JRRT might have once considered having > > < *bot= h* twins die on the ships. Maybe this is why they were never > > > given m= ore of a role? I suppose it's anyone's guess. :) > > > > I remember that = note. It comes in the section about Eol and Aredhel > and Maeglin in a la= ter HoME...Morgoth's Ring or War of the Jewels. > I should point out that= it is speculation only on CJRT's part - > JRRT never wrote that both twin= s died in the ships. Rather, all > throughout this section, he refers re= peatedly to the "Five Sons of > F=EBanor" rather than the (by that time we= ll-established) Seven Sons. > So the question becomes - why 5? Did he fo= rget about the twins? > Did he think they were both dead? Or did he thin= k they were just > too far south and out of the action of this part of the= story? We > don't know. One solution (put forward by Christopher) is th= at maybe > they were both burned in the ships. But...that's all that is. = > CJRT's fanon, if you will ;). Or....Maybe Nerdanel did succesfully in= tervene? Or she was still with child(ren)? Or perhaps Something happened du= ring the first kinslaying and had the two journey with their cousins? There= are so many bunnies that can star gnawing at your ankles. > From the poi= nt of view of a fanfic writer, I often wonder about the > shifting power d= ynamics among F=EBanor's sons. Curufin clearly defers > to Celegorm in th= e Beren/Luthien story, even if he is the mastermind > of their plans. I a= ssume it's just because Celegorm is the older > brother and a competent le= ader. But in that case...Maedhros is all > that and more ;). He is *clea= rly* the leader throughout the > Watchful Peace - he orders his brothers a= round and they do what he > says, whether they agree with him or not. Wel= l, Maedhros never was allowed to lead when Feanor was still there. During t= he Battle under the Stars, it were F=EBanor and Celegorm who were commander= s on the battlefield - Celegorm was quite succesfull if I may add, rescuein= g Sindars while he was at it. There is no note what Maedhros did during tha= t battle, I think F=EBanor kept him close, whereas Celegorm enjoyed full tr= ust and was a very competent warlord (well he truly is, whether you hate hi= m or not). Many followed him wherever he went. After the battle of the sudd= en flame, the population of Nargothrond doubled when Celegorm joined his co= usin friends there, tagging Curufin along. > But Unnumbered Tears is the = Union of Maedhros - it was his > leadership that led the Noldor into that = disastrous battle. It is > said that afterwards, the Noldor no longer tru= sted non-Edain Men. > Well, what of Maedhros? Did his brothers trust him= , did they > continue to follow him? I think...not. His leadership is we= akened. Well Tolkien did state that if Celegorm would be in charge on the= battlefield, the Union never would have stood a chance. Under Maedhros com= mand, at least Nargothrond was willing to send a detachment, if Celegorm wo= uld have lead, no way. > It was Celegorm and Curufin who were keen on att= acking Doriath prior > to the 5th battle. And afterwards...they do. Wel= l can you blame them? > So, I have to assume that Maedhros has lost face, = and no longer has > the power to restrain his brothers. If he forswears h= is Oath, but > the twins insist upon attacking Sirion...that makes this ev= en more > clear. Well, before all of this happened, letters of communica= tion were send where Maedhros sternly demanded Elwing to hand over the jewe= l. It just depends who had the most patience. > In a way, the story of th= e twins instigating at Sirion fits well. > F=EBanor caused the Kinslaying= at Alqualonde, of course. (And died > not long afterwards) The Teleri s= tarted it, they shot first. > Then the Troublemakers fell on Doriath, and = all met their ends. > Then the twins decide to take out Sirion, and die i= n the > process. Then (a part absent from the early stories) Maedhros and= > Maglor attack Eonw=EB's camp *at Maedhros' insistence* and Maedhros > = dies. A kind of instant retribution, if you will.... Maglor > remains th= e only F=EBanorean who did not plan a Kinslaying (though he > participated= in all 4), and thus the sole survivor. Hmmm there are two different sce= narios where it is Maglor insisting on getting into Eonw=EB camp. In one sc= enario Maglor takes both jewels and well tosses them, where as Maedhros com= mits suicide in the camp. It's that passiveness that I find hard to place s= ometimes with Maedhros: a reluctant hero. Hmmmm Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1013 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81102 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 13:16:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 13:16:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.163) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 13:16:59 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n6.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 13:16:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 13:16:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 13:16:55 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:16:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <061120071936.264.466DA4420009BE470000010822120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=aLn4i9tNyEbMz4HGbqHjIjBxZQ9943NCBjf9e_bKPtaWMFYZu6SUHAs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > From: "marielprosser" > > > So the question > > bec= omes - why 5? Did he forget about the twins? Did he think > > they were = both dead? Or did he think they were just too far > > south' and out of t= he action of this part of the story? We don't > > know. One solution (pu= t forward by Christopher) is that maybe > > they were both burned in the s= hips. But...that's all that is. > > CJRT's fanon, if you will ;). > > = *snicker* So we're all guilty of it. ;) LOL But I do wonder. Maedhros - M= aglor- Caranthir holding the North, basically, a bit tucked away, but stil= l guarding the pass of Himlad are Celegorm and Curufin. Then guarding the b= ackdoor are Amrod and Amras. Nothing more nasty than being attacked from be= hind, the twins did had an important area assigned. Whether it was wise of = Maedhros to set Celegorm & Curufin that close to Doriath (just across the r= iver)... >From a practical perspective, that explains how= a disfavored family > still held such power (and--shameless Monty Python = quote > here--*HUGE* tracts of land) and why the sons of Feanor posed such= a > formidable foe to, say, Thingol of Doriath. I think I even remember >= reading in the HoMe that Thingol didn't want to seek justice for > Celego= rn & Curufin's deeds against Luthien because he knew that it > would force= him to go against all seven sons of Feanor, and who > wants that? Nothing= short of a Silmaril inspires that sort of > stupidity. ;) Well.... Melia= n had her thoughts against the Silmaril quest to begin with. > But from a= writer's perspective, the seven sons pose a problem. Each > needs a distin= ct character and dynamic with regards to the rest of > his family ... and = I get the feeling that JRRT hadn't *quite* gotten > that far with the twins= , as evidenced by their various conflicting > roles: passive, aggressive, = *dead*. Awww and being adressed in CoH as the Sons of Feanor. Poor guys. = > > From the point of view of a fanfic writer, I often wonder about > > t= he shifting power dynamics among F=EBanor's sons. > > You bring up a lot = of interesting points. I'd never thought about a > loss of face for Maedhr= os before in the eyes of his brothers before. > It certainly seems a plausi= ble explanation. To me, it's always felt > like in agreeing to attack Dori= ath, Maedhros was simply succumbing > to an inevitable course of action. B= efore Beren and Luthien got a > hold of one, Morgoth held all of the Silma= rils, so the Feanorians' > oath coincided quite nicely with their attack o= n Morgoth. Maedhros > was inspired into the Union of Maedhros by the deeds= of Beren and > Luthien; I can almost imagine him thinking, "Well, if a mo= rtal and a > girl can do it, then surely, the allied forces of Elves and Me= n can > finish the job!" This made me laugh so hard, but you know, it mak= es sense. It's like: if a girl can get one, we guys most surely can get two= ! > Once they lost the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, though, they had two options = > for pursuing the oath. Morgoth still held two Silmarils, but > experienc= e had proven that these would be harder to come by. Then > Dior held anoth= er, which seemed a much more attainable goal. > "Celegorm stirred up his b= rothers" to attack Doriath, true, but I > can't really see Maedhros disagr= eeing with this idea, given the > alternative of attacking Morgoth. And it= is said the oath was > tormenting them at this time, so they were driven = to do *something,* > and attacking Doriath is certainly the more logical ch= oice. Maedhros > did attempt diplomacy first (at least, I seem to recall Ma= edhros > specifically being mentioned in the HoMe; I'm too lazy to look :^= P), > so it seems that it was on his mind. Once his requests were > refuse= d/ignored, there were few other options but to attack or bear > the tormen= t of the oath. HOME (somewhere, don't hit me, but I did read it while doin= g a Curufin character study), states that they send Curufin for a parly... = which didn't went well. Obviously. > On Celegorm and Curufin, I've always= seen Celegorm as the face and > Curufin as the brain. Celegorm seems very= skilled with languages: He > is able to speak with animals, and twice, his= persuasive powers > convince people to do something that seems rather foo= lish in > retrospect. He is the impetus behind the attack on Doriath and a= lso > encourages the people of Nargothrond to reject Finrod when he sets = > out to fulfill his oath to Barahir. He seems to take after Feanor in > th= is, in his gift for language and also persuasion (and foolishness. > :^P) A= gain, not canon but just my particular breed of fanon > contrived by conne= cting the various canon dots. My Celegorm muse screamed: hey! Ut oh Dawn..= . > Curufin the crafty, less charismatic than Celegorm, seems to set the= > plans in place, at least in my personal verse. There is no doubt > that= Celegorm is ambitious, but without Curufin, I wonder if his > plans would= ever come to fruition. Hmmm I wonder about that. Celegorm was succesful b= efore without Curufin, so he doesn't necessarily need him. And those plans = of Curufin... hehehehe. >> In a way, the story of the twins instigating a= t Sirion fits well. >> F=EBanor caused the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, of c= ourse. (And died >> not long afterwards) Then the Troublemakers fell on = Doriath, and >> all met their ends. Then the twins decide to take out Sir= ion, and >> die in the process. Then (a part absent from the early storie= s) >> Maedhros and Maglor attack Eonw=EB's camp *at Maedhros' insistence* = >> and Maedhros dies. A kind of instant retribution, if you will.... >> = Maglor remains the only F=EBanorean who did not plan a Kinslaying >> (thou= gh he participated in all 4), and thus the sole survivor. > > I've alway= s thought it an important fact that none of the Feanorians > died in battle= with Morgoth/evil. I think that is in the Letters of Tolkien... I have i= t in the author notes of one of my stories. *argh* A lot of that is in The = letters of Tolkien, letter 131 to Milton Waldman. I am sorry, but I am not = going to type it over :) > With the exception of Aredhel who was murdered = and Galadriel who > doesn't die at all, the first two generations of the H= ouse of Finwe > in Middle-earth die in battle with evil *except* the Feano= rians. The > first three died in a kinslaying. The next two died in a kinsl= aying > and possibly by the hands of their own people. The sixth (Maedhros= ) > died by his own hand. Who knows if and how Maglor died, but his end >= either way is far from noble. It is even specifically mentioned that > eac= h son of Feanor was wounded at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad ... but not > one of = them died. And the connection between instigation and death > in the HoMe = are too interesting to ignore as well. Well wasn't this also in the Doom o= f Mandos? F=EBanor is an exception though, he got toasted by Balrogs shortl= y after or at the end of the Battle under the stars... > The only problem= I see with correlating death and planning a > kinslaying, per se, is that= I don't think that it can be said that > Caranthir had any part in planni= ng, unless I'm missing something > important from the HoMe (which is quite= likely, as I haven't done a > search for Caranthir yet). The HoMe says th= at Curufin and Celegorm > vowed to slay Thingol or any of his people that = they met, in war or > in peace, but Caranthir isn't explicitly involved in= this, as I > recall. No that I am aware off. The thng that I always fou= nd interesting is how Celegorm and Curufin ended up in Himlad, Caranthir in= the east (well I did explore this in Rhapsy!verse why Caranthir was placed= in the East), but it remains strange that the 3rd and 4th son never teamed= up besides seeking each other out for ahunting (which Celegorm and Curufin= did when Aredhel came looking for them). > In fact, Caranthir strikes me = as another character who was > never fully developed to his potential. Asi= de from rabble-rousing > with the sons of Finarfin shortly after arriving = in Beleriand and > calling the Dwarves ugly and taxing them to make himsel= f rich, he > has never struck me as quite as bad a bad boy as Celegorm and= > Curufin, though he often gets lumped in with them. (And I, as an > aut= hor, am guilty of this too: I have my own elaborate theory of how > these t= hree characters will later come to relate; the shifts in > power and alleg= iance, all Felakfanon, of course. ;) Yay! Now more time to write ;) > His= aid to Haleth's people scores big points for him, in my opinion. > His all= egiance with the traitorous Men was poor judgment more than a > moral faili= ng. Caranthir has always struck me as perhaps the most > mysterious of the= sons of Feanor; the only one who is not assigned a > particular talent or= ambition yet somehow has earned that ominous > epithet "the dark," who re= acts hatefully towards the Dwaves yet with > extraordinary tolerance toward= s Men. And according to the HoMe, he > was only one of three of the sons w= ho was married. It's no wonder > that I write so much about him! (That and= I think I know every rabid > Caranthir fangirl on the Internet! :^P) LOL!= I think the betrayal of the Easterlings was utterly tragic for him and I t= hink besides Maedhros, he might not have been looked upon as heroic after t= he Nirnaeth. > Well, I think that covers them all except Maglor. Maglor is= worthy > of a post unto himself! :^D Oh yeah! But then again, my take on= him is not that usual. Oh well. Rhapsody (catching up) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1014 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82917 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 13:22:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 13:22:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.238) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 13:22:59 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 13:19:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 13:19:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 13:19:24 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:19:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <745872.20029.qm@web58307.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=scIcCRnv4l5YJ__1kl3_IKn2InLbnxS-j1nZ5iJOarpKcP2xZWTfHZc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Niki S." = wrote: > > "I think that JRRT simply wanted Feanor to have seven sons." > = > Makes the science nerd in me think of white light (and the color > blac= k) and the seven colors of the visible light spectrum... and now > the ima= ge of the Feanoreans marching into battle with rainbow flags is > making me= giggle! LOL! Tolkien has something with numbers. one, three, seven, nine= ... I am not good at maths, but aren't those prime numbers? Hmm, maybe not = nine. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1015 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25416 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 13:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 13:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.164) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 13:42:32 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n6.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 13:41:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 13:41:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 13:41:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:41:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <061120072007.27529.466DAB690001CE7C00006B8922120207840B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=aUdfGV3cSsvCMhO2FQfBB1h7FxY2Y34_9-dK_F8Y5wddf8eitwbBZf0 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > From: Sirielle >> Such vision is a bit contrary to aggress= ive twins before the Mouth >> of Sirion attack, I haven't heard of it befor= e reading the list. >> But maybe they had enough of being 'younger', alway= s kept safe in >> the back and never important. Or they had enough of that= curse at >> all and sought ending in achieving a Silmaril or dying, what = ever, >> just to stop this pointless existence. > > I'll admit that my fi= rst thought upon hearing about the twins' > aggression at Sirion was, "Tha= t can't be! It makes no sense given > the passive nature of their characte= rs in the rest of the story!" > But it's kind of intriguing to consider *b= oth* ideas to be true and > then find a way to connect them. I've been thi= nking about it and > came up with a few explanations that aren't quite as = AU as they > sound but would be guaranteed to drive some canatics nuts. :^= P Well, I need to finish writing the sequel vignette to Oath's Foresworn, = then we have the twins perspective to it all (Rhapsy!verse then). But anywa= y, why would it be considered AU? I think the last kinslaying got a paragra= ph or two and the rest will be an extrapolation of it. > -Sirielle's theo= ry: that the twins are content as the > owners/operators of the East Beler= iand Green Resort and Spa. But why > did they change? Maybe it's as Siriell= e says and they grew tired of > making their brothers do all of the dirty = work. Maybe the Nirnaeth > Arnoediad triggered something, like, "Hey, if w= e'd been more >involved with the war instead of maintaining the golf green= s, then >the outcome wouldn't have been so disastrous!" Or maybe seeing th= e > death of a beloved family member--Celegorm, maybe?--at the Nirnaeth >= or Doriath fueled their bloodlust. Might be, some scores to settle. Who k= nows. Don't forget that besides Celegorm, they were hunters too. > -My pe= t theory that the twins were protected by their older brothers > and were = intentionally kept in a non-dangerous realm and away from > the worst of t= he action. After Doriath, however, with 60% of the > warmongers dead, Maed= hros and Maglor had no choice but to involve > the twins more. And so we g= et their aggression at Sirion. I don't know. I think Himlad was more secur= e than Estolad. Yet I can see why Maedhros wanted to keep Celegorm close, a= fter all his 3rd brother was more experienced as a warlord and he could use= the help in case it got worse. All Rhapsy!verse btw. I am just saying befo= re I have Dawn's Neylo at my doorstep... although, that wouldn't be that ba= d. *winks* > -Totally crazy theory: the twins are, in fact, the most bloo= dthirsty > and aggressive of the sons of Feanor. They make Celegorm and Cur= ufin > look like playful kittens. It was no accident that the twins got > = shut away in the forest, away from most other Elves. It was an > accident = (according to their brothers anyway) that invitations to > parties and mee= tings always seemed to get lost in the mail. Dratted > postal system ... A= fter Doriath, though, the twins couldn't be kept > out of the loop any lon= ger, and so they started with Sirion. You are ... argh. I need Teflon-boot= s. This is a theory that I'd love to explore. Now the time. > Silly ideas= , yes, but I'd love to see someone write one of them! > Actually, I'd love= to see the twins written about more as it is ... > or as more than the We= asleys with pointy ears. :^P That's Harry Potter right? > > Why is he tr= ying to kill the girl. > > His brother can't have her, but I'm sure Celegor= m would rather > > kill Beren not her, Curufin must know it. Then why? > = > Maybe Curufin recognizes her as the more symbolically important of > the= two. Her death would devastate Doriath and take that realm--and > Thingol= --beyond all hope. Beren's death would be terrible as well, > but as long = as Luthien lived, I could see hope also surviving. Hmmm yes, but besides t= hat, it was not only Celegorm who was smitten with her. I read a story, per= haps two months back, that explores this extremely well. > Luthien being = so powerful could also likely heal Beren (as she does, > at different point= s in the story), whereas Beren likely would not be > able to heal her. So s= he's the more sensible target. Well yeah, besides that Celegorm choses for= his brother's life here. I find it uncanny that besides nearly strangled = to death, Curufin still shoots with his brother's bow at Luthien, killing B= eren at the 2nd attempt and angers Huan. > > Yes, useless, I don't think= people of Fingolfin would follow > > Maedhros as a king, but they look at = him in a different light > > since he gave the crown away. > > That's alw= ays been my feeling too: that Maedhros *increased* his > power by giving u= p the crown. And I don't mean that negatively, like > he had a lust for pow= er for power's sake, but rather that he > recognized that a divided Noldor= in people was useless against a > united force of evil. And by the Noldori= n reunion, he regained > sympathy and influence for his house, especially = among the rulers > (Fingolfin and then Fingon). Hmm yes. When I read that= part, I always have to think on how Fingolfin swore to F=EBanor that he wo= uld follow his brother. And they did suffer, I can imagine (not sure if tha= t fits your Fela!verse Dawn) that Maedhros remembered that oath and wanted = to repay Fingolfin for such loyalty & suffering. I have some theories about= that. So I don't think it was an image problem only. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1016 Return-Path: X-Sender: tea_party@ourbrisbane.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52363 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 16:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 16:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.114) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 16:11:35 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 16:09:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 16:09:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 16:09:55 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:09:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Matt" Subject: Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150850663; y=4HrYKruCT_A5QxwEndf5Zc40CvhbGsFMpey0DHHd8hLX88E X-Yahoo-Profile: uncutray Does anyone here have a digital copy of The Silmarillion? I am finding it a= real pain to have to keep flipping through my printed copy to find referen= ces! Please email me privately if you are willing to send me a copy. Than= ks! Matt West From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1017 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17861 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 16:24:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 16:24:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 16:24:46 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c52.1743e526 (42808) for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:20:36 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1181665236" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=HA9Hv16nx-jW5lt6PrDZzImHEMqE7L5PyZ_eLhQbWA1hAvh2w9Ul X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1181665236 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a MS Word copy in pretty good condition (i.e., have been correcting silly scanning errors randomly for months). Let me know where to send it... Oshun ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1181665236 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I have a MS Word = copy in pretty good condition (i.e., have been correcting silly scanning e= rrors randomly for months). Let me know where to send it...
&nb= sp;
Oshun



See= what's free at = AOL.com.
-------------------------------1181665236-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1018 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36652 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 16:33:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 16:33:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 16:33:31 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c2a.125c3efb (42808) for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:23:51 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1181665431" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=_7bxK2L0067zs2R9fSLQqDZ5RJ-vu6W6R3qrHrga9GV5SW1ci2IT X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1181665431 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, I just went ahead and sent it to the teaparty address above. If you do like it, you can throw it out.Ifyou want it at another address let me know. Oshun ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1181665431 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Actually, I just = went ahead and sent it to the teaparty address above. If you do like it, y= ou can throw it out.Ifyou want it at another address let me know.
 
Oshun



See what's free at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1181665431-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1019 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52890 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 16:45:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 16:45:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 16:45:46 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 16:45:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 16:45:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 16:45:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:45:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=mC9F9eEr274xn41jRfQrFH2eyg7WynHJRKRiX6YgXk2EmwG9lghc X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, I've also uploaded an MS Word copy of The Silmarillion to the gr= oup's files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/files/= You'll need to be logged in to view it, of course. But now, if you have = a computer and Internet, you have The Silmarillion. :) When Life(tm) slows= down to a manageable pace, I'll try to remember to convert it also to .pd= f and .txt files for those who do not have access to Microsoft. If you wan= t this badly, feel free to harangue me on occasion; I do work best under p= ressure. ;) As Oshun noted, this is a scanned copy, so it does have numero= us typographical errors. Be wary of this and always check the original so= urce when collecting quotes for research purposes. Also, if you emailed me= for copies of the HoMe et al, I haven't forgotten; I just need to find a = quiet moment to collect all of the files and send them off. All the best,= Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1020 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24874 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 17:07:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 17:07:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 17:07:06 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12.go2.pl [193.17.41.142]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 82A07230ED5 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:07:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 767443E80D6 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:38:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:38:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:38:50 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <627901940.20070612183850@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=K2rYtrFXXuDsSe4k12vbcpV0xj86hwz62jj3J3Exvk6Xq2H7D0k X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> I have a MS Word copy in pretty good condition (i.e., have hac> been correcting silly scanning errors randomly for months). Let hac> me know where to send it... I offered mine version, but I made no corrections at all so in fact now I wish to receive your rather than sending anyone mine. Also I wonder if anyone has got the latest corrected Silmarillion version? What I mean - the latest Polish Silmarillion edition has been corrected comparing to the old one and it was done after the English corrections (plus translation corrections). That would be great to have that corrected English issue scanned. What about the very corrected version if we stated one AU-verse of SWG,made some changes and posted it, with bloodthirsty Ambarussa having a 5 stars resort ;) Joking but that would be funny. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1021 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75427 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 17:16:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 17:16:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 17:16:02 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c69.14bb4252 (42808) for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:10:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:10:36 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1181668236" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Y97ads4-W7W0jMjw49KTDNLRguDV2Xbhw01F3y8shx0d7tf4Wq0_ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1181668236 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My version is not CORRECT. But every time I notice a typo, I correct it. So it is lots better than it was when I got it. I also corrected certain formatting errors. But don't think my is good. It is not! However, if anyone still wants it I'll send it. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1181668236 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
My version is not= CORRECT. But every time I notice a typo, I correct it. So it is lots bett= er than it was when I got it. I also corrected certain formatting errors.&= nbsp;But don't think my is good. It is not! However, if anyone still wants= it I'll send it.



See wh= at's free at AOL= .com.
-------------------------------1181668236-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1022 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56259 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 18:09:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 18:09:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.248) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 18:09:30 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n28.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 18:08:31 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 18:08:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 18:08:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:08:29 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <627901940.20070612183850@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=S2SC_2zYS5qKTewWRYDqcVZBmjmlquhr-iOqPSMFgUL7Kjhg8v6Ifss X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai Oshun, > >> I have a MS Word copy in pretty good condition (i.= e., have >> been correcting silly scanning errors randomly for months). Le= t >> me know where to send it... > > I offered mine version, but I made n= o corrections at all so in fact > now I wish to receive your rather than se= nding anyone mine. > > Also I wonder if anyone has got the latest correcte= d Silmarillion > version? What I mean - the latest Polish Silmarillion edit= ion has > been corrected comparing to the old one and it was done after th= e > English corrections (plus translation corrections). That would be > g= reat to have that corrected English issue scanned. Well I have three diffe= rent editions of the Silmarillion, paper ones, but I don't have the intend = to scan it... What year was your version published? Then it's easier to nar= row down which edition we're talking about. > What about the very correcte= d version if we stated one AU-verse of > SWG,made some changes and posted i= t, with bloodthirsty Ambarussa > having a 5 stars resort ;) Joking but that= would be funny. LOL Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1023 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57934 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 18:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 18:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 18:29:19 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF6295804D for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:21:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:21:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:21:47 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <185251061.20070612202147@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <627901940.20070612183850@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=4AMdu-fDF51TAuH5GALYrjCKKv5QFJhcebkXAvIPt1OrpypOhCE X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, r> Well I have three different editions of the Silmarillion, paper ones, r> but I don't have the intend to scan it... What year was your version r> published? Then it's easier to narrow down which edition we're talking r> about. Harper Collins '98 illustrated - in a book format. Is it the corrected one? Polish corrected issue went out in December 2006, still got to buy it - new Nasmith illustrations and a lot of corrections (I wonder if they changed Glaurung flying into passing over a river, though ;) ). I don't intend to scan it either, I can't even imagine that. Some heroes made that scanning XD Simply stating which issue is the corrected one would be enough to compare the text every time one makes quotation and make corrections then. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.deviantart.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1024 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42260 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 18:57:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 18:57:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 18:57:30 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.d5c.a8dca32 (42808) for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:35:46 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1181673346" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=i66i6FoIL3OwswwO_NjEUnkOU8Y7TlrBCfvz0nsbNfHtAdrFY_sV X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1181673346 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have no idea--do not have the title page--originally from a Russian language internet site (don't read Russian) and says simply the name in English and (1977). It starts with the Foreword by Christopher Tolkien. My hardcopy which I check it against is the Ballatine 1977 edition--I have found no differences except typos, but as I noted have not proofread it (I would expect to paid to do that!). I am not the scholar you are and have been doing this less than a year! ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1181673346 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Have no idea--do = not have the title page--originally from a Russian language internet site = (don't read Russian) and says simply the name in English and (1977). It st= arts with the Foreword by Christopher Tolkien. My hardcopy which I check i= t against is the Ballatine 1977 edition--I have found no differences excep= t typos, but as I noted have not proofread it (I would expect to paid to d= o that!). I am not the scholar you are and have been doing this less than = a year!



See what's free = at AOL.com. =
-------------------------------1181673346-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1025 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27622 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 19:32:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 19:32:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.107) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 19:32:10 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n11.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 19:30:11 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 19:30:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 19:30:11 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:30:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=uUoAZ1iXYxELRpdKgtN4-eDJ7NUefcggcXlk0Msbq_y9-7uR6bbN1xBR X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 > > LOL! Tolkien has something with numbers. one, three, seven, nine... I= > am not good at maths, but aren't those prime numbers? Hmm, maybe not > n= ine. > > Rhapsody > **Dips my non-sequitur toe into Talmudic-scholar-lik= e discussion of Amras, Amrod and their older brothers** Excluding nine,= yep, JRRT uses those prime numbers in a conscious or collective unconsiou= s (ha, ha) nod to Jung's archetype of order. Twelve is also another one of= those meaningful numbers in numerology, and he certainly likes the series= of that number, too. Speaking of "seven," a number fraught with mysticism= (seventh son of a seventh son and all that jazz), check out this wild a$$= analysis connecting JRRT's use of seven stars on the Door of Durin. I st= umbled across this in a lazy Google search. http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/r= ing.html The author attempts to connect JRRT to Freemasonry, which strikes= me as an _extremely_ tenous connection. Then again, I think you can prob= ably guess how I responded to this article as a whole (cue rationalist pan= t-hoots). :^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1026 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22391 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 21:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 21:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.125) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 21:02:44 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 21:02:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 21:02:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 21:02:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:02:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=3gkGHicpfZtrZq_xGl-dxQN9jvXKNP4ciF5j-yiiv0EFVWXez-5NTKc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushw= ell" wrote: > > LOL! Tolkien has something with numbers= . one, three, seven, > > nine... I am not good at maths, but aren't those = prime numbers? > > Hmm, maybe not nine. > > > > Excluding nine, yep, JRR= T uses those prime numbers in a conscious or > collective unconsious (ha, h= a) nod to Jung's archetype of order. > Twelve is also another one of those= meaningful numbers in > numerology, and he certainly likes the series of = that number, too. Well the fellowship of nine vs the Nazgul. Technically F= rom F=EBanor to Celebrimbor.. there you have the nr nine again. Nine ships = that escaped from Numenor after it's downfall. Btw, nine levels of hell in = Dante's hell? If I remember it correctly, Tolkien did admire Dante. Seven = Lords of the Valar (Manw=EB, Ulmo, Aul=EB, Orom=EB, Mandos, L=F3rien, and T= ulkas) seven Valier, Queens of the Valar, seven sons of Feanor, seven gate= s leading to Gondolin (Gondolin at its turn had seven names, really I kid y= ou not (Gondobar, Gondothlimbar, Gwarestrin, Gar Thurion, Loth, Lothengriol= and Gondolin), seven beacon hills of Gondor , seven stars in the constella= tion the Sickle of the Valar, seven palantiri (and came along with seven to= wers), seven dwarven rings, seven houses of the Dwarves, seven rivers in Os= siriand, Minas Tirith was built on seven levels... I'd probably have missed= some more. > Speaking of "seven," a number fraught with mysticism (sevent= h son of > a seventh son and all that jazz), check out this wild a$$ analy= sis > connecting JRRT's use of seven stars on the Door of Durin. I > stu= mbled across this in a lazy Google search. > > http://www.darkstar1.co.u= k/ring.html Hmmm not only free masonry, but the scope is much wider: http:= //sevenroads.org/Sevens/Sevens.html http://www.ccru.net/zones/Zn7.htm Of c= ourse when you say the seventh son of the seventh son I immediately had to = think of the Alvin Maker books written by Orson Scott Card. > The author a= ttempts to connect JRRT to Freemasonry, which strikes me > as an _extremely= _ tenous connection. Then again, I think you can > probably guess how I = responded to this article as a whole (cue > rationalist pant-hoots). :^) = Hehehehe, well, I think the nr seven is seen in many believes and religions= :) Still its interesting material. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1027 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91827 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 21:10:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 21:10:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 21:10:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 21:10:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 21:10:12 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:10:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <185251061.20070612202147@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=xsk9bKrUMrGWK29olfpcUG5mCJs0EZKiRoqPPlf4iSO634q0CD6jTEk X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: Hi Sirielle! >> Well I have three different editions of the Silmari= llion, paper >> ones, but I don't have the intend to scan it... What year= was your >> version published? Then it's easier to narrow down which edit= ion >> we're talking about. > > Harper Collins '98 illustrated - in a bo= ok format. Is it the > corrected one? Polish corrected issue went out in D= ecember 2006, > still got to buy it - new Nasmith illustrations and a lot = of > corrections (I wonder if they changed Glaurung flying into passing >= over a river, though ;) ). Owww Nasmith! I adore his work! I have a Harpe= r Collins from 1999 that is obviously the second edition because Christophe= r says himself he fixed a lot of things as editorial (typo's and such) and= what did change was the numbering of Rulers in Numenor, so that has change= d too. I know for sure that the old hardback edition upstairs is pre-1999, = I haven't looked at the other paperback I have. > I don't intend to scan = it either, I can't even imagine that. Some > heroes made that scanning XD S= imply stating which issue is the > corrected one would be enough to compare= the text every time one > makes quotation and make corrections then. Tec= hnology & copyright aside (to scan the whole book), an electronic search is= n't a catch all. There are some dangerous side effects to working with pape= r too, before you know it you are sitting comfy on the couch reading more t= han you planned to. *ahem* That happens to me a lot. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1028 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29715 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2007 22:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2007 22:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.170) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 22:40:14 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n8.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 22:39:36 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 22:39:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2007 22:39:36 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:39:35 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: Question about Amras/Amrod X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=sKCPT5kcLMiCG9LPouXvYOF9KHM1Lx4rkp_8d_O4nxh-wdjbfBcJtjKZ X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pa= ndemonium_213/Doc > Bushwell" wrote: > > > > > Excluding = nine, yep, JRRT uses those prime numbers in a conscious or > > collective u= nconsious (ha, ha) nod to Jung's archetype of order. > > Twelve is also an= other one of those meaningful numbers in > > numerology, and he certainly = likes the series of that number, too. > > Well the fellowship of nine vs t= he Nazgul. Technically From F=EBanor to > Celebrimbor.. there you have the = nr nine again. Eeeeek... by "excluding nine," I less than articulat= ely meant, excluding it as a prime number, but not as a significant # to J= RRT. You listed outstanding examples! > > > > > http://www.darkstar1.co.= uk/ring.html > > Hmmm not only free masonry, but the scope is much wider: = > http://sevenroads.org/Sevens/Sevens.html > http://www.ccru.net/zones/Zn7.= htm Seven Lemurs? :^D > > Of course when you say the seventh son of the= seventh son I > immediately had to think of the Alvin Maker books written = by Orson > Scott Card. We're in synch. I really enjoyed the Alvin Maker = series! > > Hehehehe, well, I think the nr seven is seen in many believe= s and > religions :) > > Still its interesting material. Definitely! Beyo= nd the mysticism of numerology, number sense is fascinating. The brain, h= uman and otherwise, processes numbers in distinctive ways. That may be the= underpinning of human preoccupation with some of the biggies, like seven,= four, three, nine, etc. I think you just gave me a plot bunny, or should= I say a screed chimpie ;^) for the other place. Hat tip to Rhapsody! OK= , I'd better remove my non-sequitured digit from the water... > > Rhapso= dy > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1029 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5817 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2007 00:59:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2007 00:59:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 2007 00:59:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 93660 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jun 2007 00:59:07 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: t67qxvcVM1kfOcDYJ_ewcrO2KziVk9llpTwbzEvQFqLAr7eS0U97coY70_jmMJXjlaRKvpQh7LMLRtQGLCs3aUjwJ_oObdG95cj7Eft1rA_i_QfsqTSRhkkQK6f9sQ-- Received: from [75.183.97.25] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:59:07 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23.1 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.14 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:59:07 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-141732403-1181696347=:92923" Message-ID: <611949.92923.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=2qp4DylLYj0Lu59yYsLDSCYd59yJWdXWHL5iwSi0RRxsUbQlgg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-141732403-1181696347=:92923 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Has anyone provided the links to the digital Silmarillion and HoME? I've been reviewing the emails but I haven't seen the links or the files actually sent yet. Did I miss it? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 --0-141732403-1181696347=:92923 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii
Has anyone provided the links to the digital Silmarillion and HoME? I've been reviewing the emails but I haven't seen the links or the files actually sent yet. Did I miss it?

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --0-141732403-1181696347=:92923-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1030 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59871 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2007 02:08:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2007 02:08:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc12.comcast.net) (206.18.177.52) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 2007 02:08:45 -0000 Received: from amailcenter07.comcast.net ([204.127.225.107]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070613012219b1200qbk3fe>; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 01:22:19 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter07.comcast.net; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 01:22:19 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 01:22:19 +0000 Message-Id: <061320070122.5438.466F46CB000088800000153E22165514060B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=VmPUZkFZWRCDVhdtJ8xHqjQ3733ZMzhgqzCNv9q5T748V5sgawXo X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Alassante7 > Has anyone provided the links to the digital Silmarillion and HoME? I've been > reviewing the emails but I haven't seen the links or the files actually sent > yet. Did I miss it? Hi, Alassante! I put The Silmarillion up in the group files today, here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/files/ You'll have to be logged into Yahoo! to access these, of course. I also have a folder where I am (slowly) compiling the History of Middle-earth. I will try to send you the full HoMe, as you requested, tonight. I haven't forgotten, just been busy and tired. Not a good combination. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1031 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59116 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2007 03:16:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2007 03:16:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.244) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 2007 03:16:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2007 03:16:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2007 03:16:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 03:16:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Looking for a beta-Back to Matt X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=YZlGBNpbJhZ1TXTNF_Y3ijY503x41iysRzCPcm73-fJkvk9gB0g X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Matt, I tried e-mailing you again and the e-mail bounced again. Can you t= ry e-mailing me? Thanks! Ellie > > Please contact me privately at tea_p= arty@... and I'll send > you my private email address. I'm not sure why my = tea_party email is > bouncing. It accepts fairly large attachments. Are you= getting a > specific error message? > > Matt West > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1032 Return-Path: X-Sender: tea_party@ourbrisbane.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82574 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2007 15:38:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2007 15:38:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.33) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 2007 15:38:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2007 15:38:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2007 15:38:00 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:38:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Matt" Subject: Re: Digitalmarillion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150850663; y=RkfRj8C-dIgP9Izmp_2ttkMCFyY1Xgq9NvEOOo6w9bHXmcI X-Yahoo-Profile: uncutray Thanks to all of you for your replies and offers. I appreciate getting the = digital copy of the Sil. It will make my life/hobby so much easier!! Matt = West --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" wrote: > > Does anyone here have a digital copy of The Silmarillion? I a= m finding > it a real pain to have to keep flipping through my printed copy= to > find references! > > Please email me privately if you are willing to= send me a copy. > > Thanks! > > Matt West > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1033 Return-Path: X-Sender: tea_party@ourbrisbane.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26204 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2007 15:40:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2007 15:40:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.111) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 2007 15:40:01 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2007 15:36:23 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2007 15:36:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2007 15:36:23 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:36:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Matt" Subject: Re: Looking for a beta-Back to Matt X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150850663; y=Y_1i9qtnLMe0fFqIOZuZje0bwfdx3sePd9XXARB-Qbh0uYA X-Yahoo-Profile: uncutray I got an email from you last night and replied to it. Did you get my reply?= I cannot understand why you are having problems with emails bouncing. Are = you trying to send me a large file (>10MB) or something? I'm still looking= forward to reading your story. Matt West --- In SilmarillionWritersGuil= d@yahoogroups.com, "ellfine2000" wrote: > > Matt, > > I tr= ied e-mailing you again and the e-mail bounced again. Can you try > e-maili= ng me? > > Thanks! > Ellie > > > > > > Please contact me privately at t= ea_party@ and I'll send > > you my private email address. I'm not sure why = my tea_party email is > > bouncing. It accepts fairly large attachments. Ar= e you getting a > > specific error message? > > > > Matt West > > > > > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1034 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54916 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 03:25:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2007 03:25:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc11.comcast.net) (204.127.225.91) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 03:25:53 -0000 Received: from amailcenter09.comcast.net ([204.127.225.109]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070614023318b1100i0oqme>; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:33:18 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter09.comcast.net; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:33:18 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:33:18 +0000 Message-Id: <061420070233.7710.4670A8EE0000F91F00001E1E22155751140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Stories, Poems, and Artwork Wanted about the House of F?anor! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=SccpFIAwYSCPMmnOXOlRFcK-vCC9_tG6FuViXfVA1asGU6DAYtjN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, Next month is a unique month for the F�anatics among us. It contains the seventh day of the seventh month of the seventh year of the millennium ... since we have been discussing the special significance of numbers, this is an obvious special day for fans of the House of F�anor. SWG has decided to do a special project honoring these characters who have inspired such a diverse wealth of creative work from authors and artists around the world. But we need your help! We seek short fiction, poems, artwork, and excerpts of longer works about characters from the House of F�anor to create a compilation of creative work about each character. Full details are available on our site: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php I *know* that we have many talented authors and artists in this group who have done fantastic work on F�anor and his family. I hope to hear from many of you with contributions to this project! As usual, feel free to contact me with any questions at my private email (DawnFelagund@comcast.net) or at the mod email (moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org). All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1035 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51882 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 03:46:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2007 03:46:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 03:46:41 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3FB058005 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 05:42:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 05:42:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 05:42:56 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1224858867.20070614054256@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <061420070233.7710.4670A8EE0000F91F00001E1E22155751140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <061420070233.7710.4670A8EE0000F91F00001E1E22155751140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: =?Windows-1250?Q?Re=3A_=5BSilmarillionWritersGuild=5D_Stories=2C_Poems=2C?= =?Windows-1250?Q?_and_Artwork_Wanted_about_the_House_of_F=EBanor!?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=B3uCEoI0jf1DmdBXmJxBjd-TxHqbebxHYFIry5pRkQlnevWUt20 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai DawnFelagund, Dcn> But we need your help! We seek short fiction, poems, Dcn> artwork, and excerpts of longer works about characters from the Dcn> House of F�anor to create a compilation of creative work about Dcn> each character. Oh may,what about artworks excerpts so I wouldn't have too finish all my forever unfinished stuff ;) Why only 10 days? Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1036 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10895 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 03:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2007 03:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 03:46:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 94662 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2007 03:46:20 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: LpBxC_0VM1mCFMRiPiiPrO4DCUksQPeGq.nfttz7EZQr4d9_X2gzGNGh7Y_bXgUyjs.cQNKwUzHebr02._NK8NlVyriwf2XIPG6OZGZlGtNKRZ.VkR.k1gv_ngsL4tBMRqL.Rwig7TZS1H4- Received: from [75.183.97.25] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:46:20 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.29 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.16 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:46:20 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-113870136-1181792780=:94649" Message-ID: <712989.94649.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_=5BSilmarillionWritersGuild=5D_Stories=2C_Poems=2C_a?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?nd_Artwork_Wanted_about_the_House_of_F=EBanor!?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=hrH1iBf_KzZUJw-wCX4kUTR8EadElplUcPsZBlRVPGNlm9twbQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-113870136-1181792780=:94649 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WOOHOO! Thats awesome Dawn. =3D) Here is one piece of Maedhros done by so= meone who I don't know how she can be contacted now since her site is gone = now but here it is anyway - http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/QuentaEld= arion/Character%20Photos-Being%20Used/maedhros1.jpg Art used with permissio= n from Maya - http://www.webhosting4free.biz/mathia/ Now the bunnies are = hopping around. ----- Original Message ---- From: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net= " To: SWG Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:33:18 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWrite= rsGuild] Stories, Poems, and Artwork Wanted about the House of F=EBanor! H= i, all, Next month is a unique month for the F=EBanatics among us. It conta= ins the seventh day of the seventh month of the seventh year of the millenn= ium ... since we have been discussing the special significance of numbers, = this is an obvious special day for fans of the House of F=EBanor. SWG has d= ecided to do a special project honoring these characters who have inspired = such a diverse wealth of creative work from authors and artists around the = world. But we need your help! We seek short fiction, poems, artwork, and e= xcerpts of longer works about characters from the House of F=EBanor to crea= te a compilation of creative work about each character. Full details are a= vailable on our site: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.ph= p I *know* that we have many talented authors and artists in this group wh= o have done fantastic work on F=EBanor and his family. I hope to hear from = many of you with contributions to this project! As usual, feel free to con= tact me with any questions at my private email (DawnFelagund@comcast.net) o= r at the mod email (moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org). All the best,= Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://= dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Ch= eck out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org= ~oOo~ Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________= ____________________________________________________ Expecting? Get great n= ews right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://adv= ision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html --0-113870136-1181792780=:94649 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WOOHOO! Thats awesome Dawn. =3D)

Here is one piece of Maedhros= done by someone who I don't know how she can be contacted now since her si= te is gone now but here it is anyway -
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/QuentaEl= darion/Character%20Photos-Being%20Used/maedhros1.jpg
Ar= t used with permission from Maya -  http://www.webhosting4free.biz/mathia/

Now the bunnies are hopping around.
----- Origi= nal Message ----
From: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net"
To: SWG
= Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:33:18 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWriters= Guild] Stories, Poems, and Artwork Wanted about the House of F=EBanor!
<= br>
Hi, all,
Next month is a unique month for the F=EBanatics among = us. It contains the seventh day of the seventh month of the seventh year of= the millennium ... since we have been discussing the special significance = of numbers, this is an obvious special day for fans of the House of F=EBano= r. SWG has decided to do a special project honoring these characters who ha= ve inspired such a diverse wealth of creative work from authors and artists= around the world.

But we need your help! We seek short fiction, poe= ms, artwork, and excerpts of longer works about characters from the House o= f F=EBanor to create a compilation of creative work about each character.
Full details are available on our site:

http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php

I *know* that we have = many talented authors and artists in this group who have done fantastic wor= k on F=EBanor and his family. I hope to hear from many of you with contribu= tions to this project!

As usual, feel free to contact me with any qu= estions at my private email (DawnFelagund@comcast.net) or at the mod email = (moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org).

All the best,
Dawn
<= br>--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
Read my stories or visit me online at ht= tp://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile

Are you a relentless = First-Ager?
Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org
~oOo~



Yahoo! Groups Links

<= *> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/

= <*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email = | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
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<*> = Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles= .
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. --0-113870136-1181792780=:94649-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1037 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12337 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 04:02:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2007 04:02:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 04:02:13 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECD2858005 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 06:02:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 06:02:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 06:02:11 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <707337575.20070614060211@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <712989.94649.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <712989.94649.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=5B2=5D=3A_=5BSilmarillionWritersGuild=5D_Stories=2C_P?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?oems=2C_and_Artwork_Wanted_about_the_House_of_F=EBanor!?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=2l_5qB4Ou2W-y5jW42sze5OFpJGI1I9j_thqWiH3w-jFTZoc3gM X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, A> Here is one piece of Maedhros done by someone who I don't know A> how she can be contacted now since her site is gone now but here it A> is anyway - A> http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/QuentaEldarion/Character%20Photos-Being%20Used/maedhros1.jpg A> Art used with permission from Maya -� A> http://www.webhosting4free.biz/mathia/ I don't get it, it's Mathia's Maedhros. There must be some other artwork you're talking about? No artwork without credit anyway or I'll send my Seven to make a little fireworks in the archive ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1038 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52295 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 04:48:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2007 04:48:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 04:48:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 18263 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2007 04:48:46 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: NSLu2CMVM1m_qxI4uOx7Nf4HyQ59XPlBwDYIy628DjegvmpKbCbXdTvNy5B8ZeWATtRScTV3OUx_V9Ycu._ONNZbW371K_B6EMaUgdkE93h4AAN8itI- Received: from [75.183.97.25] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:48:46 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.29 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.16 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:48:46 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-415384936-1181796526=:17892" Message-ID: <718701.17892.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Re=5B2=5D=3A_=5BSilmarillionWritersGuild=5D_Stories?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=2C_Poems=2C_and_Artwork_Wanted_about_the_House_of_F=EBano?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?r!?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=d47-xoH1WxQkpQ2cb6ZkJyxlwJFGAYZ8_5ans6YmPNqxmKzeoA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-415384936-1181796526=:17892 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has Mathia got another site now? I tried that link that I had from when she= gave me permission before but its not a valid site anymore. ----- Origina= l Message ---- From: Sirielle To: Alassante7 Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 12:02:11 AM S= ubject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories, Poems, and Artwork Wante= d about the House of F=EBanor! Ai Alassante7= , A> Here is one piece of Maedhros done by someone who I don't know A> = how she can be contacted now since her site is gone now but here it A> is = anyway - A> http://i24.photobuc ket.com/albums/ c29/QuentaEldari on/Charac= ter% 20Photos- Being%20Used/ maedhros1. jpg A> Art used with permission fr= om Maya - A> http://www.webhosti ng4free.biz/ mathia/ I don't get it, = it's Mathia's Maedhros. There must be some other artwork you're talking ab= out? No artwork without credit anyway or I'll send my Seven to make a li= ttle fireworks in the archive ;) Suilad, Sirielle = sirielle@tlen. pl http://www.isle. px.pl http://sirielle. cgsoc= iety. org/gallery/ _____________________________= _______________________________________________________ Be a better Heartth= rob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers= - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=3Dlist&sid=3D396545433 --0-415384936-1181796526=:17892 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has Mathia got another site now? I tried that link that I had from whe= n she gave me permission before but its not a valid site anymore.

----- Original Message ----
From: Sirielle
To: Alassante7 Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 12:02:11 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [Silmar= illionWritersGuild] Stories, Poems, and Artwork Wanted about the House of F= =EBanor!

Ai Alassa= nte7,

A> Here is one piece of Maedhros done by someone who I do= n't know
A> how she can be contacted now since her site is gone now = but here it
A> is anyway -
A> http://i24.photobuc ket.com/albums/= c29/QuentaEldari on/Character% 20Photos- Being%20Used/ maedhros1. jpg<= br> A> Art used with permission from Maya - 
A> h= ttp://www.webhosti ng4free.biz/ mathia/

I don't get it, it's M= athia's Maedhros. There must be some other
artwork you're talking about= ?

No artwork without credit anyway or I'll send my Seven to make a= little fireworks in the
archive ;)

Suilad,
Sirielle =

sirielle@tlen. pl
http://www.isle. px.pl
http://sirielle. cgsociety. org/gallery/



Park yours= elf in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. --0-415384936-1181796526=:17892-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1039 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54886 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 04:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2007 04:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 04:55:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 10488 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2007 04:55:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: jNih0qIVM1k6FaoLbn2mmkgSTNf5WAyRSWkLm8Toak8n9TbDN83BIhz.1Jl46bYi6iVULeRAS7LSxoS_c6f3bZLBqkS6otjUGgi.7PyVJEqKGWOkGpLrtEROYgCExaNyZ0d9uDSBcqC1bMQ- Received: from [75.183.97.25] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:55:54 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.29 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.16 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:55:54 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1438144746-1181796954=:10485" Message-ID: <985689.10485.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Re=5B2=5D=3A_=5BSilmarillionWritersGuild=5D_Stories?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=2C_Poems=2C_and_Artwork_Wanted_about_the_House_of_F=EBano?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?r!?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=k0xvIDeadA3hV_Fqsr2jbmgfzmXNEtDamaH6lX3tShJkJJxViQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1438144746-1181796954=:10485 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nevermind- I found her LJ with her website! http://mathia.livejournal.com/= profile ----- Original Message ---- From: Sirielle To: = Alassante7 Sent: Thursday, June = 14, 2007 12:02:11 AM Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories, Po= ems, and Artwork Wanted about the House of F=EBanor! = Ai Alassante7, A> Here is one piece of Maedhros done by someone= who I don't know A> how she can be contacted now since her site is gone n= ow but here it A> is anyway - A> http://i24.photobuc ket.com/albums/ c29/= QuentaEldari on/Character% 20Photos- Being%20Used/ maedhros1. jpg A> Art u= sed with permission from Maya - A> http://www.webhosti ng4free.biz/ mathi= a/ I don't get it, it's Mathia's Maedhros. There must be some other art= work you're talking about? No artwork without credit anyway or I'll send= my Seven to make a little fireworks in the archive ;) Suilad, Siriel= le sirielle@tlen. pl http://www.isle. px.pl = http://sirielle. cgsociety. org/gallery/ _________= __________________________________________________________________________ = You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo= ! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html --0-1438144746-1181796954=:10485 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Nevermind- I found her LJ with her website!

http://mathia.livejo= urnal.com/profile

----- Original Messag= e ----
From: Sirielle
To: Alassante7
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 = 12:02:11 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories, Poems, a= nd Artwork Wanted about the House of F=EBanor!

Ai Alassante7,

A> Here is one pi= ece of Maedhros done by someone who I don't know
A> how she can be c= ontacted now since her site is gone now but here it
A> is anyway - A> http://i24.photobuc ket.com/albums/ c29/QuentaEldari on/Character% 20P= hotos- Being%20Used/ maedhros1. jpg
A> Art used with permission = from Maya - 
A> http://www.webhosti ng4free.biz/ mat= hia/

I don't get it, it's Mathia's Maedhros. There must be som= e other
artwork you're talking about?

No artwork without credi= t anyway or I'll send my Seven to make a little fireworks in the
archiv= e ;)

Suilad,
Sirielle

siriel= le@tlen. pl
http://www.isle. px.pl
http://sirielle. cg= society. org/gallery/



Get the free= Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware pro= tection. --0-1438144746-1181796954=:10485-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1040 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69380 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 11:04:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2007 11:04:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 11:04:26 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E147C5801D for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:04:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:04:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:04:22 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <262541356.20070614130422@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <985689.10485.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <985689.10485.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=5B4=5D=3A_=5BSilmarillionWritersGuild=5D_Stories=2C_P?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?oems=2C_and_Artwork_Wanted_about_the_House_of_F=EBanor!?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=K6DnsXoJSysjYQcFNl10miMtBWyi2zulRSzq--id1KpvDcv98zM X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, A> Nevermind- I found her LJ with her website! A> http://mathia.livejournal.com/profile So now I know the source of confusion - I believe that's not a secret - Mathia is a man. Thus my confusion about "her" in your message. He's got his own page - this should be given in LJ, too - and a few net galleries, but elves you'll find at his web site mostly - Refugium Artis: http://mathia.freespaces.com/ dA gallery: http://arkoniel.deviantart.com/ but I see now he has deleted most of images from there :( Anyway Maedhros is still at Refugium :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1041 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1610 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 11:26:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2007 11:26:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 11:26:20 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C05958026 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:25:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:25:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:25:48 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <181778270.20070614132548@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <985689.10485.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <985689.10485.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=5B4=5D=3A_=5BSilmarillionWritersGuild=5D_Stories=2C_P?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?oems=2C_and_Artwork_Wanted_about_the_House_of_F=EBanor!?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=pVve7dusxAJydcn-xb8iIK60iLWWKz2Cv3KaWYXSd2LGnnfJRCk X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, A> Nevermind- I found her LJ with her website! Yay, I'm great, I haven't seen here the word "website" and gave you links again XD Anyway I checked it and to see Elu on a larger image - and Maedhros - you have to visit YaoiGallery, unfortunately: Elw� http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/view/144780/ Maedhros http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/view/135270/ Glorfindel http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/view/154206/ There are few more images, but you will not see them without login - adult content. And as I see Maedhros is marked as adult as well, but he is not that much resized on Refugium as Elw�,who loses a lot with all the details visible on the larger image. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1042 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42869 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 15:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2007 15:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.187) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 15:11:54 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n5.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2007 15:10:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2007 15:10:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2007 15:10:41 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:10:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1224858867.20070614054256@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Stories,_Poems,_and_Artwork_Wanted_about_the_House_of_F=EBanor!?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=blJdE1siCzZ_TTf3bKxUObEQiUICyw7k9wO60a6AHbS0SyG-NXnf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle w= rote: > Oh may,what about artworks excerpts so I wouldn't have too finish a= ll > my forever unfinished stuff ;) Why only 10 days? Well, sketches would= certainly be welcome. I'm not enough of an artist to know if this might c= ount as a wip! :) And unfortunately, ten days is the best that I can do. I= 'm moving at the end of the month, so this project is going to be a crunch= for me as it is. But it's better than waiting for 7 July 2107. ;) I have = no idea what my Internet situation is going to be in a week or two, so I'= m hoping for slow times at work so that I can get everything together ther= e (don't tell my boss!), and if I'm offline for the first week in July, I'= ll probably be begging and cajoling my little sister over in England to up= load stuff for me. She uses the same webhost that we do. This just seems = too great an opportunity to pass up--07/07/07!--so I'll make it work. :) D= awn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1043 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56781 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 15:16:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2007 15:16:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 15:16:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2007 15:15:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2007 15:15:27 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:15:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <707337575.20070614060211@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Stories,_Poems,_and_Artwork_Wanted_about_the_House_of_F=EBanor!?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=QtmX1s3sAQrnoJoJSv-uwHClCkkK59K4V9qEYn4T3Qneu4Zeordy X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Sirielle wrote: > No artwork without credit anyway or I'll send my Seven to= make a > little fireworks in the archive ;) No worries ... everything wi= ll be used with the permission of its creator and with credit given. This = is a big issue for me as well, and giving proper credit for work used is p= art of the group etiquette/TOS ... it'd be quite hypocritical of me to vio= late my own TOS! ;) Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1044 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38880 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2007 15:30:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2007 15:30:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.97) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2007 15:30:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 41130 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2007 15:28:03 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: VNuOdiQVM1l23G3z9S5LCQEmTRcxjK0zLt0BvbCqnRghfiXoYAGDAPsHl3H3IaXFgthbFH1wVfSA6oXxzYKywNUL3dVi08BfQSuSjdkGBzAzc3g5ZMo- Received: from [75.183.97.25] by web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:28:03 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.29 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.16 Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:28:03 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1741027989-1181834883=:40087" Message-ID: <637836.40087.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Re=5B4=5D=3A_=5BSilmarillionWritersGuild=5D_Stories?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=2C_Poems=2C_and_Artwork_Wanted_about_the_House_of_F=EBano?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?r!?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=RW7JimSmr5HeugpFZ8DmmfK1_UIHA0eTDBal1IkiJpldUr2__A X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1741027989-1181834883=:40087 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LOL oops! I didn't realize it was a man. hehe Glad you cleared that up. I'v= e talked to him before to get permission to use those images on my RPG but = I never knew he was a man. I hope I didn't flub up when I talked to him lol= ----- Original Message ---- From: Sirielle To: Alassan= te7 Sent: Thursday, June 14, 200= 7 7:04:22 AM Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories, Poems, and= Artwork Wanted about the House of F=EBanor! = Ai Alassante7, A> Nevermind- I found her LJ with her website! A> http:= //mathia. livejournal. com/profile So now I know the source of confusion= - I believe that's not a secret - Mathia is a man. Thus my confusion abo= ut "her" in your message. He's got his own page - this should be given i= n LJ, too - and a few net galleries, but elves you'll find at his web site= mostly - Refugium Artis: http://mathia. freespaces. com/ dA gallery: = http://arkoniel. deviantart. com/ but I see now he has deleted most of ima= ges from there :( Anyway Maedhros is still at Refugium :) Suilad, S= irielle sirielle@tlen. pl http://www.isle. px= .pl http://sirielle. cgsociety. org/gallery/ <= !-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-= serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select= , input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlm= sg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #yg= rp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpms= gs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-fam= ily:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-= actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:r= ight;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} .bld{font-weight= :bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygr= p-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:= 5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-= color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd= { font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transf= orm:uppercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{= list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul= li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:ri= ght;padding-right:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-v= ital a { text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:under= line;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ pa= dding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor = #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:= square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoratio= n:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc { background-color:#eee;margin-bo= ttom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor = .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;l= ine-height:122%;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor= .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o= {font-size:0;} .MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%= ;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} .replbq {margin:4;} --> __= ___________________________________________________________________________= _______ Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're = surfing. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php --0-1741027989-1181834883=:40087 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
LOL oops! I didn't realize it was a man. hehe Glad you cleared that up= . I've talked to him before to get permission to use those images on my RPG= but I never knew he was a man. I hope I didn't flub up when I talked to hi= m lol

----- Original Message ----
From: Siriell= e
To: Alassante7
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 7:04:22 AM
Subject: = Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories, Poems, and Artwork Wanted about = the House of F=EBanor!

=

Ai Alassante7,

A> Nevermind- I found her LJ with her websi= te!
A> http://mathia. livejournal. com/profile
So now I know the source of confusion - I believe that's not a
secret= - Mathia is a man. Thus my confusion about "her" in your message.
He's got his own page - this should be given in LJ, too - and a few net g= alleries, but elves you'll find at his
web site mostly - Refugium Artis= : http://mathia. freespaces. com/

dA gallery:
http:= //arkoniel. deviantart. com/
but I see now he has deleted most of i= mages from there :(

Anyway Maedhros is still at Refugium :)
Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen. pl=
http://www.isle. px.pl
http://sirielle. cgsociety. or= g/gallery/



=
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. --0-1741027989-1181834883=:40087-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1045 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1931 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2007 09:31:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jun 2007 09:31:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.238) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2007 09:31:08 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jun 2007 09:31:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jun 2007 09:31:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jun 2007 09:31:01 -0000 Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 09:31:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: MEFA 2007 announcement: Hard-to-reach authors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=z609uOx4j_6tl6S6DZslcwOBLMHMu1IRKFEDdt8cQWtXREc-VypKzPM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard On behalf of Marta: The Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards are well underway, = with lots of wonderful stories already nominated. However, we're having a h= ard time reaching some of the them. Perhaps you can help. Below are a list= of authors who have had stories nominated, but (at the timeI compiled this= list) have not replied to any emails sent to them. This often means that t= he email provided for that author is wrong, or the message was filtered as = spam. It's not, but since we're talking about an awards program, some email= s treat our messages as spam. Here are the authors we haven't heard from:= Amebrindra Amrumofthesouthcountry Bewize Bodldops The Bookbinder's Daught= er Clairon Cpsings4him Illwynd Istarnie Lady of Ithilien Le Rouret Littlefi= sh Otto's Goat Soubrettina Space Weavil Storyfish Tehta Yoru no Hime If yo= u know any of the authors below, please have them email mefasupport(at)gmai= l(dot)com about their nominated stories. Also have them add that address to= the list of addresses their email "trusts" (i.e., never treats as spam. = Authors, if you have replied to an email about these awards in the last few= days, everything is probably okay. It can take a day or two for me to come= up with this list and have it posted where you're reading it. Still, it's = probably best to email me at mefasupport(at)gmail(dot)com to make sure ever= ything is moving along. Nominations are still being accepted through July = 15. If you're interested in nominating your favorite stories, join the MEFA= wards Yahoo group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/). This is a low= -volume listserv where you can read award announcements and ask questions a= bout the awards. Once you join you will be given a username and password to= our website (http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2007/) where you can nominate up= to twenty pieces, either by yourself or any other author of Tolkien fanfic= . So do feel free to nominate your favorite stories, and if you know how to= reach any of the above authors, please give them a nudge. --- Marta (MEFA= Administrator) *** Looking at the list, Ellie didn't you nominate Istarn= ie and know her very well? I will nudge Space Weavil and I believe Tetha mi= ght be reading this! I have spoken to some the author's I nominated myself = and most often those e-mails end up in the junk folder. Just mentioning and= telling them to look there is enough for a enthusiastic squee! Rhapsody := c) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1046 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25529 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2007 17:35:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2007 17:35:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc11.comcast.net) (206.18.177.51) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2007 17:35:41 -0000 Received: from amailcenter06.comcast.net ([204.127.225.106]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070621163709b1100i4m4oe>; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:37:09 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter06.comcast.net; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:37:09 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:37:09 +0000 Message-Id: <062120071637.19495.467AA935000073BD00004C2722165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=42XyAzdofhIxHflhigQv3xtArOZswTnp2EVuwKU0fYicJRI-9fi0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Those of you who have known me a while might remember the daily drabble that I used to do every day in my LiveJournal. Since the State of Maryland has blocked my access to LiveJournal at work, however, I couldn't keep up and abandoned the project. Well ... it's back. Writers rarely agree on everything about their craft, but every successful writer I know suggests trying to carve out at least fifteen minutes each day to write. I've been really bad with practicing my writing lately; between real life and getting the archive off of the ground, the muses have been happy to abandon ship. Really, I think that they just don't want to move the fifty-or-so boxes of books that my husband and I have amassed from the apartment and to our new house. ;) But I've figured that writing a drabble a day is a good way to spend at least a few minutes each day on writing. This time, instead of LJ, I'm archiving my drabbles on the SWG archive. The table of contents with more information about it is here, along with today's drabble, "Evening in Alqualonde": http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=114&index=1 Anyone else crazy, masochistic, or inspired enough to join me is more than welcome. Silm-based drabbles/stories are always welcome on SWG, and if anyone wants to play along there, I will create a series to keep all of the stories listed together. All the best, Dawn P.S.- Just a reminder too that Seven in '07 submissions are due by Sunday! In all likelihood, I will extend the deadline; my Internet situation in light of my move is looking pretty favorable, so I should be online through most of next week. But just in case, if you have something definite in mind to send in, it's best to do so by Sunday. If you're totally clueless about what I'm jabbering about: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1047 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72684 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2007 20:22:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2007 20:22:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2007 20:22:57 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so486930pyb for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:22:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:x-mimeole:in-reply-to:thread-index; b=hT2s5LsTas0YWKTb8zXGetn7SULNGG5gZdhyj6zWyvNow0rmpPmGEB/KdKHZWf2MTqjh1lKvIxTwDXhsh56xGRfQUYCE4xGvxdAvrtA4JyCe7a1mg1amLxgecz1+9min0gztrLA3ga1s0fnyN5FhUCUA9y87QnnGDERhu4AqlUA= Received: by 10.35.9.2 with SMTP id m2mr3746196pyi.1182457376722; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from THORONGIL ( [66.61.110.183]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24sm1322965nzn.2007.06.21.13.22.55 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:22:56 -0700 (PDT) To: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:21:15 -0400 Message-ID: <008401c7b441$b8539db0$b76e3d42@THORONGIL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 In-Reply-To: <062120071637.19495.467AA935000073BD00004C2722165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> Thread-Index: Ace0Ksr0a0J1hRvcQaC25W5iXQk01AAFqkHw X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Marta" Subject: RE: RSS at SWG? [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=Bs8rY9Mu3OBqC4DHc0bwD3F-7ckPWUEm5ed9bzNV7n0FglGWALN15w X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, This is slightly off topic, yet not completely since wanting to keep up with your drabble-a-day is what inspired it. Do you have a RSS feed at the SWG website? I never remember to check my websites and love having updated stories emailed to me so I can read them when I have time. I have a program that converts RSS feeds into emails which works great, but I need an RSS feed to make it work. So does SWG have such a feature? Thanks, Marta =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "When I have a little money, I buy books. And if any is left, I buy food and clothing." --Desiderius Erasmus > -----Original Message----- > From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of DawnFelagund@comcast.net > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:37 PM > To: SWG > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Daily Drabble > > Those of you who have known me a while might remember the > daily drabble that I used to do every day in my LiveJournal. > Since the State of Maryland has blocked my access to > LiveJournal at work, however, I couldn't keep up and > abandoned the project. > > Well ... it's back. > > Writers rarely agree on everything about their craft, but > every successful writer I know suggests trying to carve out > at least fifteen minutes each day to write. I've been really > bad with practicing my writing lately; between real life and > getting the archive off of the ground, the muses have been > happy to abandon ship. Really, I think that they just don't > want to move the fifty-or-so boxes of books that my husband > and I have amassed from the apartment and to our new house. > ;) But I've figured that writing a drabble a day is a good > way to spend at least a few minutes each day on writing. > > This time, instead of LJ, I'm archiving my drabbles on the > SWG archive. The table of contents with more information > about it is here, along with today's drabble, "Evening in Alqualonde": > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory > .php?sid=114&index=1 > y.php?sid=114&index=1> > > Anyone else crazy, masochistic, or inspired enough to join me > is more than welcome. Silm-based drabbles/stories are always > welcome on SWG, and if anyone wants to play along there, I > will create a series to keep all of the stories listed together. > > All the best, > Dawn > > P.S.- Just a reminder too that Seven in '07 submissions are > due by Sunday! In all likelihood, I will extend the deadline; > my Internet situation in light of my move is looking pretty > favorable, so I should be online through most of next week. > But just in case, if you have something definite in mind to > send in, it's best to do so by Sunday. > > If you're totally clueless about what I'm jabbering about: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > Read my stories or visit me online at > http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile > > > Are you a relentless First-Ager? > Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1048 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51310 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2007 20:55:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2007 20:55:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc15.comcast.net) (204.127.225.95) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2007 20:55:34 -0000 Received: from amailcenter06.comcast.net ([204.127.225.106]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070621203042b15001c41ve>; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:30:42 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter06.comcast.net; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:30:42 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:30:42 +0000 Message-Id: <062120072030.26841.467ADFF1000E65B7000068D922165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: RE: RSS at SWG? [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=R04pjGW4yRpAMjCNeKgIopWt0OP46DyxbqSvRQW8LJ-uxqV6X6Ra X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "Marta" > This is slightly off topic, yet not completely since wanting to keep up with > your drabble-a-day is what inspired it. > > Do you have a RSS feed at the SWG website? Hi, Marta! We certainly do! If you follow LOGIN/MY ACCOUNT >> MOST RECENT, there should be a button there. I've never used it, but it comes with the software ... so I hope it works! :^/ Or this link will take you to the same place: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/browse.php?type=recent Didn't you do a daily drabble for a while? I love your drabbles so, hey, a monthly drabble would be appreciated here. ;) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1049 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31863 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2007 21:07:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2007 21:07:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2007 21:07:03 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f31so415935pyh for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:07:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:x-mimeole:in-reply-to:thread-index; b=qO9ZxqHqKYLQ2pI2Eyjczu/n/ixfPT57Mbg1DChxuJFbKnqwOUSMhOX8cbpEIaEzau34P5mq2TAm44n92a9OiMmjNGQHEkxE2i2ApnOSqPEs0VVEFpFb0Ni+E2Mzj73umigS6WOezEPyXOK67xk5XVo/+f2gDN28M2Mqo1EwjjM= Received: by 10.65.148.19 with SMTP id a19mr4342859qbo.1182460021911; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from THORONGIL ( [66.61.110.183]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 40sm1934953nzf.2007.06.21.14.07.00 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:07:01 -0700 (PDT) To: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:05:17 -0400 Message-ID: <00cd01c7b447$e0ecee10$b76e3d42@THORONGIL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 In-Reply-To: <062120072030.26841.467ADFF1000E65B7000068D922165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> Thread-Index: Ace0Ro9npyer+5lHTJqweS8uyUpgkwAAKLQw From: "Marta" Subject: RE: RSS at SWG? [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=pHnBh7MnnLyAMCZ8JtKdQUxEBCaEDiD2d5nkl13MED88ulF-8ph6xw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, > Hi, Marta! > We certainly do! If you follow LOGIN/MY ACCOUNT >> MOST > RECENT, there should be a button there. I've never used it, > but it comes with the software ... so I hope it works! :^/ > > Or this link will take you to the same place: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/browse.ph > p?type=recent > hp?type=recent> > Ah, that works perfectly! I have a little program called PopHeadlines. It takes RSS feeds and each time a new entry is added, it sends me an email with a text version of that email. What it means in practical terms for SWG is that each time someone uploads or edits a story, I get an email with the subject line "[Title] by [Author]", and the message text of the story summary and a link to the story. That way I can save the stories I want to read in a special folder in my email program, and I'll have them nice and easier. It makes it so much easier to read stuff, at least for me. (I'm much more email oriented than website, and usually only check LJ and forums if I get an alert that they've been updated.) > Didn't you do a daily drabble for a while? I love your > drabbles so, hey, a monthly drabble would be appreciated here. ;) > I did when I was trying to get out of a writing slump. I doubt I'll do every day, but I do get the word of the day from Webster, and I often think about (and sometimes write) a drabble. Trouble is, it rarely makes it anywhere beside my blog. Hopefully reading SWG stories will give me more of a push to post my earlier-age stuff at the archives. I want to, I just never seem to get to it. ;-) Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1050 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84610 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2007 21:17:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2007 21:17:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2007 21:17:53 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E085806B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:17:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:17:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:17:21 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <434631908.20070621231721@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <062120072030.26841.467ADFF1000E65B7000068D922165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <062120072030.26841.467ADFF1000E65B7000068D922165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: RSS at SWG? [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ZopCjRXbcD14LVDkpXdMztJ_--m4s3BulUh_78gS23WuEQe0Uyc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai DawnFelagund, Dcn> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/browse.php?type=recent I just tried to make a syndicate for LJ from that, but LJ is having some problems right now, so it has to wait(no notifications, data base something etc.,check LJ status for that). I'll try later. Although I have way too many notifications on my LJ, including RSS notifications I prefer to have there my message center. I'll post here a link when I make it. Notifications on mail sound great, too,but I'm getting lost in e-mails from various web sites. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1051 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98062 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2007 03:19:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jun 2007 03:19:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.100) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2007 03:19:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 63046 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jun 2007 03:19:33 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 4KEWkBsVM1mj7ywd8f6maf6CUNvhLFheoD5.Y8DcAjoLP4EKgDn3ePUVtKMJz_VxhBW3h3bTggNsmJ2iPjMgoVotGjau9RtWiz0.csTNXlTun0XKca0h4SHVbu6Eoxd2KSAa.Ks7gan8fIGCmb0WN6SK Received: from [75.183.97.25] by web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:19:33 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.29 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.16 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:19:33 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2091219262-1182568773=:62977" Message-ID: <672345.62977.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Beta needed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=CVQ13N8TgmUrntwHvno3qXjFN-o5_VMGax5witiIKDAwCH2M2Q X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-2091219262-1182568773=:62977 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii I need someone to beta some double drabbles for the Seven for Seven challenge. I know its the weekend so I'm posting this to the whole group. There is currently 7 but eventually will be 4 more. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 --0-2091219262-1182568773=:62977 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii
I need someone to beta some double drabbles for the Seven for Seven challenge. I know its the weekend so I'm posting this to the whole group. There is currently 7 but eventually will be 4 more.

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Mail Beta. --0-2091219262-1182568773=:62977-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1052 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17358 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2007 17:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2007 17:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc1-s18.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.90) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2007 17:35:18 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.48.110]) by bay0-omc1-s18.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:33:22 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:33:22 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.48.123 by by137fd.bay137.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:33:21 GMT X-Originating-Email: [atanwende@hotmail.com] X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <062120071637.19495.467AA935000073BD00004C2722165579960B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:33:21 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jun 2007 17:33:22.0841 (UTC) FILETIME=[EDCE7090:01C7B74E] Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Unsung Heroine" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=GIDMQ7ayxiGWBcOQRjE97CH-H_UpvZr4S59hp4rEAyxzZ1rF X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende >Anyone else crazy, masochistic, or inspired enough to join me is more than >welcome. Silm-based drabbles/stories are always welcome on SWG, and if >anyone wants to play along there, I will create a series to keep all of the >stories listed together. You know, I so should join you. I'm so incredibly lazy recently. But I fear my "Oh well, tomorrow"-mentality can't be conquered that easily. Meh. >In all likelihood, I will extend the deadline; Did you? Because well, it's not as if I had managed to write *anything*... Bad Heroine. :( Love and hugs, - UH _________________________________________________________________ Wenn Ihnen E-Mail nicht schnell genug ist: MSN Messenger! - http://www.imagine-msn.com/messenger/default2.aspx?locale=de Kostenlos downloaden! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1053 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98941 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2007 21:53:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2007 21:53:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc14.comcast.net) (206.18.177.54) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2007 21:53:12 -0000 Received: from amailcenter09.comcast.net ([204.127.225.109]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070625214659b14001hn46e>; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:46:59 +0000 Received: from [68.55.157.250] by amailcenter09.comcast.net; Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:46:58 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:46:58 +0000 Message-Id: <062520072146.28656.468037D20009C7EA00006FF022155751140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=oqhMD8VRwoG2ChFIcAcfeDY9ge93WXai4QUSQMVs1GF_Xb1Z_t6K X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "Unsung Heroine" > You know, I so should join you. I'm so incredibly lazy recently. But I fear > my "Oh well, tomorrow"-mentality can't be conquered that easily. Meh. Ah, but that's the good thing about the daily drabble! You can only procrastinate it for a day! (Though past experience has taught me that I become quite good at coming down to the wire with posting mine. And I forgo them on the weekends altogether ... though--optimistic as I am--I prefer to think of that less as "laziness" and more of "having something of a life off of the Internet for at least two days of the week." :^P) > >In all likelihood, I will extend the deadline; > > Did you? Because well, it's not as if I had managed to write *anything*... > Bad Heroine. :( I didn't, no. At least, I didn't post anywhere that it was extended because I got such an overwhelming response that I didn't see the need. If I knew someone was working on something and didn't get it finished or sent in time, I've extended the deadline. (So anyone out there that fits this bill and hasn't contacted me, please do so ASAP. As long as I know something is coming, I'm fine with it being late. However, I'll be without Internet starting on Friday, so everything *must* be in Thursday afternoon at the latest, as Thursday night I'm shipping off the files to my sister to upload while I'm offline.) And UH, you don't have to write anything; we love excerpts too. ;) Caranthir could always use more lovin' ... Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > Love and hugs, > > - UH > > _________________________________________________________________ > Wenn Ihnen E-Mail nicht schnell genug ist: MSN Messenger! - > http://www.imagine-msn.com/messenger/default2.aspx?locale=de Kostenlos > downloaden! > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1054 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22911 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 07:37:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 07:37:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.105) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 07:37:01 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n10.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 07:36:51 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 07:36:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 07:36:51 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:36:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <062520072146.28656.468037D20009C7EA00006FF022155751140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=wC-_Q8fXMz_XqhPrfEWO-ruYJGf9RL35CvlEOiFpGX6b2FYbyf2BPio X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > > >In all likelihood, I will extend the deadline; > > > > Did you? B= ecause well, it's not as if I had managed to write > > *anything*... > > = Bad Heroine. :( > > I didn't, no. At least, I didn't post anywhere that it= was extended > because I got such an overwhelming response that I didn't = see the > need. If I knew someone was working on something and didn't get = it > finished or sent in time, I've extended the deadline. (So anyone out = > there that fits this bill and hasn't contacted me, please do so > ASAP. = As long as I know something is coming, I'm fine with it being > late. Howe= ver, I'll be without Internet starting on Friday, so > everything *must* b= e in Thursday afternoon at the latest, as > Thursday night I'm shipping of= f the files to my sister to upload > while I'm offline.) > > And UH, you = don't have to write anything; we love excerpts too. ;) > Caranthir could al= ways use more lovin' ... Oh yes! Please! Your Caranthir is fabulous! Altho= ugh making excerpts that stay under the 200 words isn't easy (I made some),= I'd love to see your work included in this project as well! I have to say,= I can't wait to see how it looks like in full. :c) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1055 Return-Path: X-Sender: hrymfaxe@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51607 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 12:06:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 12:06:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.126) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 12:06:51 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 12:06:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 12:06:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 12:06:47 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:06:45 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "hrymfaxe" Subject: Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=311315064; y=uOrmrkCPgEmY_uOwMSHpgolvtgH7RPeC9oApz4gbkk9OyeY X-Yahoo-Profile: hrymfaxe > >Anyone else crazy, masochistic, or inspired enough to join me is more t= han > >welcome. Silm-based drabbles/stories are always welcome on SWG, an= d if > >anyone wants to play along there, I will create a series to keep = all of the > >stories listed together. > > You know, I so should join you= . I'm so incredibly lazy recently. But I fear > my "Oh well, tomorrow"-me= ntality can't be conquered that easily. Meh. > Well, at the very least yo= u inspired me, Dawn! Although, my daily challenge will not be in the form = of a drabble, since I can't write and certainly not under pressure, I will= try to do a daily drawing! :) I'm unsure how regular this occurnce will b= e, as it is kind of hard to sit and draw at work without people noticing (= while I could easily look busy if I was typing something - I might even lo= ok more attentive than usual)but every so often. It's good practice! Mar= ie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1056 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58445 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 16:11:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 16:11:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc1-s7.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.79) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 16:11:03 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.48.115]) by bay0-omc1-s7.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:07:36 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:07:35 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.48.123 by by137fd.bay137.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:07:32 GMT X-Originating-Email: [atanwende@hotmail.com] X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:07:32 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2007 16:07:35.0903 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C67C6F0:01C7B80C] Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Unsung Heroine" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=RDG7rfIa9Exw2t_bn5dWg6SYz2v3p7DbSLZXWy1mGLKQ3pjL X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende Aww, thanks! I feel so wonderfully ego-stroked now that I'll probably try to compile some excerpts tonight. As for writing something new; I actually wanted to do this because I'm not so sure if I can find some fitting excerpts in my short stories... and as for WRU, I'm currently feeling extremely inspired to revise it quite thoroughly and so it would be no good idea to use excerpts from that one. But I'll give it a try, promise. ;) And Caranthir definitely needs love. Because he's cute and grumpy and misanthropist. (Or would that be mis-eldarist?? :-P) - UH >From: "rhapsody_the_bard" >Reply-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:36:50 -0000 > >--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > > > > >In all likelihood, I will extend the deadline; > > > > > > Did you? Because well, it's not as if I had managed to write > > > *anything*... > > > Bad Heroine. :( > > > > I didn't, no. At least, I didn't post anywhere that it was extended > > because I got such an overwhelming response that I didn't see the > > need. If I knew someone was working on something and didn't get it > > finished or sent in time, I've extended the deadline. (So anyone out > > there that fits this bill and hasn't contacted me, please do so > > ASAP. As long as I know something is coming, I'm fine with it being > > late. However, I'll be without Internet starting on Friday, so > > everything *must* be in Thursday afternoon at the latest, as > > Thursday night I'm shipping off the files to my sister to upload > > while I'm offline.) > > > > And UH, you don't have to write anything; we love excerpts too. ;) > > Caranthir could always use more lovin' ... > >Oh yes! Please! Your Caranthir is fabulous! Although making excerpts >that stay under the 200 words isn't easy (I made some), I'd love to >see your work included in this project as well! I have to say, I can't >wait to see how it looks like in full. > >:c) > >Rhapsody > _________________________________________________________________ Der neue MSN Messenger. Schreiben.Sehen.H�ren. Wie im echten Leben. - http://www.imagine-msn.com/messenger/default2.aspx?locale=de Jetzt herunterladen! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1057 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44841 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 18:27:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 18:27:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.112) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 18:27:01 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 18:26:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 18:26:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 18:26:57 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:26:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=yjYSr1m0bwxX4wbQjvi7MWdFIa7zKBJDpk1WJXzpwXfUEhGSLVodmqE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Unsung Heroine" wrote: > > Aww, thanks! I feel so wonderfully ego-stroked now that I= 'll > probably try to compile some excerpts tonight. As for writing > som= ething new; I actually wanted to do this because I'm not so sure > if I ca= n find some fitting excerpts in my short stories... and as > for WRU, I'm = currently feeling extremely inspired to revise it quite > thoroughly and so= it would be no good idea to use excerpts from that > one. But I'll give it= a try, promise. ;) *shakes pom poms* But it is hard, in the end I picked = out two paragraphs (give or take) that would be key to the story. Otherwise= I'd be stealing lines here and there that wouldn't make much sense. > I a= m actually feeling quite inspired by today's word. And Caranthir > definit= ely needs love. Because he's cute and grumpy and > misanthropist. (Or woul= d that be mis-eldarist?? :-P) I don't know, I've been trying to figure out= that out of all Feanorians, he either shows up with another (with Maedhros= or Maglor), but I don't have anything that features him alone. It's not th= at I dislike him, so I think it's just what happens with Maedhros, occasion= ally he pops up, but not for long. He just isn't a muse for me. If that mak= es any sense. :c) (or it might be Celegorm's deadly glares when he does wan= t to come and play) Dawn, back to the daily drabble, how does it work? I c= an write one for today to join you in on this, but what then? Drop you an e= -mail so that you can add it to the series? Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1058 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88514 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 18:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 18:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.23) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 18:42:57 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 18:41:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 18:41:39 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:41:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=RJyrCmqGwWIFfqUtUnbha3rual9hdcRbph15qhpaweqdJyLlQoU-3HsT X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Unsung Heroine" wrote: > And Caranthir definitely needs love. Because he's cute an= d grumpy and > misanthropist. (Or would that be mis-eldarist?? :-P) > > -= UH > Hmmmmm, I'd say that misanthrope, misanthropic and misanthropist ap= ply equally to either a grumpy Homo sapiens sapiens or Homo sapiens eldar= ensis. pandemonium/Doc Bushwell the Unrelentingly Scientific. ;^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1059 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34252 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 19:24:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 19:24:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc12.comcast.net) (206.18.177.52) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 19:24:26 -0000 Received: from amailcenter11.comcast.net ([204.127.225.111]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070626191317b1200jvrufe>; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:13:17 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter11.comcast.net; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:13:16 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:13:16 +0000 Message-Id: <062620071913.28407.4681654C0001DFBA00006EF722155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=mw8LmSjSf6R15WjkN6TYVD8hBsKgb91hV3fQEUbW0MzeZgvjCF7U X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "rhapsody_the_bard" > I don't know, I've been trying to figure out that out of all > Feanorians, he either shows up with another (with Maedhros or Maglor), > but I don't have anything that features him alone. It's not that I > dislike him It also doesn't help that there's really not a whole lot about him in the books. (I speak from experience because I'm writing his Seven in '07 profile as I type this! I just paused for an email break. :) Even the twins, there is very little about them in the published book, but they have quite a rich evolution of character through the HoMe. You have the Losgar story and the idea that they provoked the last kinslaying. Caranthir has next-to-least in the Silm of any of the Feanorians (only the twins have less), and his character's evolution in the HoMe is fairly unremarkable. His story changed the least of all the brothers as Tolkien worked on it. In fact, it barely changes at all. So I wonder if this might be why his muse eludes you? I know how you collect bunnies from the HoMe and, trust me, there's not a whole lot on Caranthir. I'm warring with this now, trying to get his profile longer than a page! My own Caranthir is pretty much an OC, for all intents and purposes; I could change his name and put him in one of my original stories, and no one would ever recognize him as Caranthir. I developed his personality entirely on conjecture based on what little we know about him in the books. Most of my Carnistirverse has to do either with osanwe or his wife Taryinde, both of which are my inventions. Even Unsung Heroine writes a lot of Caranthir AU *waits for UH to argue that Caranthir/Haleth is NOT AU* ; it's hard to write canonical Caranthir stories, imo. > Dawn, back to the daily drabble, how does it work? I can write one for > today to join you in on this, but what then? Drop you an e-mail so > that you can add it to the series? That'll work! I'll head over now and create the series. I'll set it to OPEN so that you can add your own works, but since I've had trouble in the past with getting this to work (it keeps switching itself to CLOSED; I think there might be a bug, but I haven't had time to look into it), then at the least, I'll keep an eye out for daily-drabble entries and add them as I see them. Now, back to Caranthir's character profile. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1060 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56049 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 19:40:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 19:40:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc13.comcast.net) (206.18.177.53) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 19:40:53 -0000 Received: from amailcenter11.comcast.net ([204.127.225.111]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070626192428b1300jdr5pe>; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:28 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter11.comcast.net; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:28 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com (SWG) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:28 +0000 Message-Id: <062620071924.11076.468167EC0004B53B00002B4422155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Daily Drabble Revisited X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=23VnFMKlfl0pQwtvIc6na7Ruv0umaqIkdzgRv-fsD7cX-ik7iU21 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, Okay, I've created a series for anyone who wants to drabble daily (or weekly, or whatever your personal goal): http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewseries.php?seriesid=5 Unfortunately, there is a bug in the software that prevents me from setting the series to OPEN, which allows authors to add their own works. I've set it to MODERATED, which should allow you to add your own stories, but they will have to be approved by the series' owner (me). Of course, I will approve them, so feel free to add away, or let me know, and I will add them for you. (DawnFelagund@gmail.com or site PM) Back to Caranthir, for real this time. ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1061 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4516 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 19:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 19:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s41.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.177) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 19:45:48 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.48.106]) by bay0-omc2-s41.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:45:48 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:45:48 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.48.123 by by137fd.bay137.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:45:45 GMT X-Originating-Email: [atanwende@hotmail.com] X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:45:45 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2007 19:45:48.0082 (UTC) FILETIME=[97F3C120:01C7B82A] Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Unsung Heroine" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=df1k90g6G108vGCROEGK2TNm3PS9io63EvbQz2thvALam08s X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende > > > > Aww, thanks! I feel so wonderfully ego-stroked now that I'll > > probably try to compile some excerpts tonight. As for writing > > something new; I actually wanted to do this because I'm not so sure > > if I can find some fitting excerpts in my short stories... and as > > for WRU, I'm currently feeling extremely inspired to revise it quite > > thoroughly and so it would be no good idea to use excerpts from that > > one. But I'll give it a try, promise. ;) > >*shakes pom poms* But it is hard, in the end I picked out two >paragraphs (give or take) that would be key to the story. Otherwise >I'd be stealing lines here and there that wouldn't make much sense. > Yes, I see a problem there, too. I think it will come down to a paragraph with me, too. - UH _________________________________________________________________ E-Mails von jedem Internet-PC weltweit verschicken - einfach, sicher und kostenlos! - http://www.msn.de/email Kostenlos anmelden! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1062 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52827 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 19:50:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 19:50:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc1-s20.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.92) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 19:50:52 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.48.101]) by bay0-omc1-s20.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:48:57 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:48:57 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.48.123 by by137fd.bay137.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:48:56 GMT X-Originating-Email: [atanwende@hotmail.com] X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:48:56 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2007 19:48:57.0215 (UTC) FILETIME=[08AF28F0:01C7B82B] Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Unsung Heroine" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble [OT...] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=UoWjjzYonV4KLO6E9MvHNA0SkQRvJISYBbkp-YDY0GFBjUNG X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende ... and now I've realized that "misanthropist" isn't actually a word at all. "Misanthrope", and "misanthropic" on the other side are. Stoopid me. ;) >From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" >Reply-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:41:36 -0000 > >--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Unsung Heroine" > wrote: > > > And Caranthir definitely needs love. Because he's cute and grumpy and > > misanthropist. (Or would that be mis-eldarist?? :-P) > > > > - UH > > > >Hmmmmm, I'd say that misanthrope, misanthropic and misanthropist apply >equally to either a grumpy Homo sapiens sapiens or Homo sapiens >eldarensis. > >pandemonium/Doc Bushwell the Unrelentingly Scientific. ;^) > _________________________________________________________________ Wenn Ihnen E-Mail nicht schnell genug ist: MSN Messenger! - http://www.imagine-msn.com/messenger/default2.aspx?locale=de Kostenlos downloaden! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1063 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58267 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 20:00:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 20:00:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc1-s20.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.92) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 20:00:25 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.48.119]) by bay0-omc1-s20.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:59:12 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:59:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.48.123 by by137fd.bay137.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:59:09 GMT X-Originating-Email: [atanwende@hotmail.com] X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <062620071913.28407.4681654C0001DFBA00006EF722155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:59:09 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2007 19:59:12.0672 (UTC) FILETIME=[77867200:01C7B82C] Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Unsung Heroine" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=S0fjh95lajbGIOUh8NDdebNEo20cZN5lujSh3eVIsE1IOMti X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende >From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net >Reply-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:13:16 +0000 > >Even Unsung Heroine writes a lot of Caranthir AU *waits for UH to argue >that Caranthir/Haleth is NOT AU* ; it's hard to write canonical Caranthir >stories, imo. > Caranthir/Haleth is like, totally canon. I could swear the Silm says somewhere "Caranthir had the hots for Haleth and they had lots of sweaty interspecies-secks together." ;) No really, I guess it's a matter of interpretation. But for me it has always been in the subtext (at least!). I mean what else is stuff like "... did Haleth great honour." supposed to mean? It's all a code to cover the fact that as the first man/elf couple, H/C would have made Luthien/Beren seem that tiny bit less spectacular. If their story took place in the Vatican, Dan Brown would write a book on it, mark my words. ;-P (Sorry, I can't seem to stay serious tonight...) Love, - UH _________________________________________________________________ Die neue MSN Suche Toolbar mit Windows-Desktopsuche. Suchen Sie gleichzeitig im Web, Ihren E-Mails und auf Ihrem PC! - http://desktop.msn.de/ Kostenlos downloaden! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1064 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10907 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 20:50:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 20:50:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc11.comcast.net) (206.18.177.51) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 20:50:45 -0000 Received: from amailcenter11.comcast.net ([204.127.225.111]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070626195726b1100bviuce>; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:57:26 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter11.comcast.net; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:57:26 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:57:26 +0000 Message-Id: <062620071957.15193.46816FA60003AF8600003B5922155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=IuILcyuGMxbugSudaiDgVGvv4JRBuJ1AGfnuzMNMyiUxLAs4E3Eu X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "Unsung Heroine" > > But it is hard, in the end I picked out two > >paragraphs (give or take) that would be key to the story. Otherwise > >I'd be stealing lines here and there that wouldn't make much sense. > > > > Yes, I see a problem there, too. I think it will come down to a paragraph > with me, too. I found it easiest with my excerpts (and the excerpts that I received from others that I found particularly effective) to pick an event in that character's canon and choose a piece based on that. Not to capture the whole story but just a moment's reaction to an event. Because the stories/artwork will be presented next to a summary of what is happening in the canon, you don't have to worry about context. So "Caranthir's distress at Ulfang's betrayal" (because I know you have a story about that, UH ;) and just a snippet that describes that. Also, lines can be cut if need be, to eliminate middle sections that don't really contribute to the purpose. Also, character sketches/descriptions are always welcome ... and I don't think we have one yet for Caranthir. ;) Just my two cents ... some things that I found helped when wading through millions of words with the intention of presenting just a couple hundred. :) All the best, Dawn (finished with Caranthir *whew*) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1065 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59399 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 21:02:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 21:02:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc15.comcast.net) (204.127.225.95) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 21:02:17 -0000 Received: from amailcenter11.comcast.net ([204.127.225.111]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070626203311b1500cfe8ie>; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:33:11 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter11.comcast.net; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:33:10 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:33:10 +0000 Message-Id: <062620072033.3153.46817806000C363100000C5122155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=VSf4RNTJV3wya32vwnu0uqs2KfynTVPSgCTyQnDsLRT-sBYqGj_I X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "hrymfaxe" > Well, at the very least you inspired me, Dawn! Although, my daily > challenge will not be in the form of a drabble, since I can't write > and certainly not under pressure, I will try to do a daily > drawing! :) Wow! That's much more ambitious than a drabble. Or maybe I'm just revealing my own lack of experience with artwork; drawings take me hours and still never look right. ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1066 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30091 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 21:04:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 21:04:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.101) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 21:04:19 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n9.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 21:04:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 21:04:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 21:04:19 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:04:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: Daily Drabble [OT...] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=UV3pUDt1qG_j5_evNYJLwYi2J4QAdCgwsSbPKjv76zKEzmqAU2_-qhtT X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Unsung Heroine" wrote: > > ... and now I've realized that "misanthropist" isn't act= ually a word at all. > "Misanthrope", and "misanthropic" on the other sid= e are. Stoopid me. ;) No, you're cool. Misanthropist is indeed a real wo= rd. It's an accepted variant of misanthrope. I'm just taking the opportun= ity to be obnoxiously pedantic about the SWG's two favorite subspecies of = Homo sapiens. The cute and misanthropic Caranthir is a fine specimen of o= ne of these. :^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1067 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54477 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 21:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 21:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.113) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 21:34:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 29501 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jun 2007 21:34:07 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: DLfLo6cVM1lownrUorlh3qj4l41r5J0tKislrXzpPMug4Xgygp6lZbmkli9GMunSyGro3cBaAjncMF_NuyQ6TpNOuggbwhLZbMr1s7kJI_oHDP2j0kt.voUka5Q1kA-- Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:34:07 PDT Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:34:07 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <062620071957.15193.46816FA60003AF8600003B5922155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-864426952-1182893647=:28931" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <107562.28931.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=KiUQiTzi2bD2e_iIQP0ce9T5yE56MQPgxevdnAa2gQGNo3gIQLM_4ow X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-864426952-1182893647=:28931 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> Also, character sketches/descriptions are always welcome ... and I don't think we have one yet for Caranthir. ;) Here's a description: The hottest hott elf to ever grace the world with his hott presence. ;D ~Tarion (Dawn, if you're finished with Caranthir, can I have him next? 0:D ) --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --0-864426952-1182893647=:28931 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> Also, character sketches/descriptions are always welcome ... and I don't think we have one yet for Caranthir. ;)

Here's a description:

The hottest hott elf to ever grace the world with his hott presence.

;D

~Tarion (Dawn, if you're finished with Caranthir, can I have him next? 0:D )

Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --0-864426952-1182893647=:28931-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1068 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44814 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 21:39:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 21:39:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc3-s9.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.209) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 21:39:41 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.48.111]) by bay0-omc3-s9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:39:14 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:39:13 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.48.123 by by137fd.bay137.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:39:13 GMT X-Originating-Email: [atanwende@hotmail.com] X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <107562.28931.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:39:13 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2007 21:39:13.0948 (UTC) FILETIME=[70907DC0:01C7B83A] Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Unsung Heroine" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=rC1x5tgz9RJVd0UEw5UtZCe5Lb3q_lbczuWT-7DMNY7pWvUP X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende >From: Tarion Anarore >Reply-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:34:07 -0700 (PDT) > > >> Also, character sketches/descriptions are always welcome ... and I >don't think we have one yet for Caranthir. ;) > >Here's a description: > >The hottest hott elf to ever grace the world with his hott presence. > >;D So much truth in such a few words. You're a genius, Tarion. :-D > >~Tarion (Dawn, if you're finished with Caranthir, can I have him next? 0:D >) (Also, you may believe it or not, but I thought something along those lines, too...) > > >--------------------------------- >Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels >in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. _________________________________________________________________ Wenn Ihnen E-Mail nicht schnell genug ist: MSN Messenger! - http://www.imagine-msn.com/messenger/default2.aspx?locale=de Kostenlos downloaden! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1069 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48280 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 21:40:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 21:40:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 21:40:34 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 21:39:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 21:39:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 21:39:34 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:39:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <062620071913.28407.4681654C0001DFBA00006EF722155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=ZBWjT-Hqh0rKhqyxlWuKdM80_h7nfnQahV9MB5H4DyPg1q57pm9kIy8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: > = > From: "rhapsody_the_bard" > > I don't know, I've been tr= ying to figure out that out of all > > Feanorians, he either shows up with = another (with Maedhros or > > Maglor), but I don't have anything that featu= res him alone. It's > > not that I dislike him > > It also doesn't help t= hat there's really not a whole lot about him > in the books. (I speak from= experience because I'm writing his Seven > in '07 profile as I type this! = I just paused for an email break. :) > Even the twins, there is very littl= e about them in the published > book, but they have quite a rich evolution= of character through the > HoMe. You have the Losgar story and the idea t= hat they provoked the > last kinslaying. Caranthir has next-to-least in th= e Silm of any of > the Feanorians (only the twins have less), and his char= acter's > evolution in the HoMe is fairly unremarkable. His story changed = the > least of all the brothers as Tolkien worked on it. In fact, it > ba= rely changes at all. Yeah, I think the professor had a firm mindset on him= , maybe making him that brother people could fall back upon. He gets a land= that is relatvely stable in the mountains, with metals and jewels to mine.= .. After all he is kinda stuck in the middle of every brother. Although is = out burst shortly after the Mereth Aderthad shows us that he has quite a te= mper, an elf with many faces. > So I wonder if this might be why his muse= eludes you? I know how you > collect bunnies from the HoMe and trust me, t= here's not a whole lot > on Caranthir. I'm warring with this now, trying t= o get his profile > longer than a page! I don't know. I know plenty of Ca= ranthir lovers and I have read my share of stories featuring him, so maybe = that's it :) And I already have a truckload of bunnies to deal with. > My= own Caranthir is pretty much an OC, for all intents and purposes; > I coul= d change his name and put him in one of my original stories, > and no one = would ever recognize him as Caranthir. I developed his > personality entir= ely on conjecture based on what little we know > about him in the books. M= ost of my Carnistirverse has to do either > with osanwe or his wife Taryin= de, both of which are my inventions. Yes but.... Carnistir is very adorab= le :) > Even Unsung Heroine writes a lot of Caranthir AU *waits for UH to= > argue that Caranthir/Haleth is NOT AU* ; it's hard to write > canonica= l Caranthir stories, imo. I don't know, I never tried to write him solo an= d canonical, in a vignette with Maedhros sure, but I do think there is enou= gh to go about and give him his own backstory. Given the rich amount of cha= racters in the Silmarillion alone, there is a lot for us to expand for us. = Thank goodness :) >> Dawn, back to the daily drabble, how does it work? I= can write one >> for today to join you in on this, but what then? Drop yo= u an e-mail >> so that you can add it to the series? > > That'll work! I'l= l head over now and create the series. I'll set it > to OPEN so that you c= an add your own works, but since I've had > trouble in the past with getti= ng this to work (it keeps switching > itself to CLOSED; I think there migh= t be a bug, but I haven't had >time to look into it), then at the least, I= 'll keep an eye out for >daily-drabble entries and add them as I see them.= Okay, I will see what bunny will nibble a day, it's at least good exercis= e. Mine is up and in the series :) By the way, for those who love RSS feed= s... this is the url to subscribe: http://dictionary.reference.com/wordofth= eday/wotd.rss Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1070 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23151 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 21:43:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 21:43:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alnrmhc13.comcast.net) (206.18.177.53) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 21:43:17 -0000 Received: from amailcenter11.comcast.net ([204.127.225.111]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070626202055b1300jcss4e>; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:20:55 +0000 Received: from [167.102.133.216] by amailcenter11.comcast.net; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:20:55 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:20:55 +0000 Message-Id: <062620072020.16383.4681752700024D5B00003FFF22155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZGF3bmZlbGFndW5kQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: dawnfelagund@comcast.net (Dawn Felagund) From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble [OT...] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=MZvZPVLdV3PTa6UzxuZjbBuDkhOKUkKX4_xAoHkWKmphAiXhJQSu X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: "Unsung Heroine" > ... and now I've realized that "misanthropist" isn't actually a word at all. > "Misanthrope", and "misanthropic" on the other side are. Stoopid me. ;) Ai, you are entirely too hard on yourself! We'll hold it akin to "bettering the works of Rumil." ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund Read my stories or visit me online at http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/profile Are you a relentless First-Ager? Check out the Silmarillion Writers' Guild at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~oOo~ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1071 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9616 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 21:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 21:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.205) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 21:44:34 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 21:44:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 21:44:29 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:44:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=27f43TI8rM-BbGhSX34bic3XGFVRKWIxTr8wtzGxALjOc6klwMVEZjs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Unsung Heroine" wrote: >> >>Even Unsung Heroine writes a lot of Caranthir AU *waits = for UH to >>argue that Caranthir/Haleth is NOT AU* ; it's hard to write >= >canonical Caranthir stories, imo. > > Caranthir/Haleth is like, totally c= anon. I could swear the Silm says > somewhere "Caranthir had the hots for = Haleth and they had lots of >sweaty interspecies-secks together." ;) LOL!= > No really, I guess it's a matter of interpretation. But for me it > h= as always been in the subtext (at least!). I mean what else is > stuff lik= e "... did Haleth great honour." supposed to mean? It's all > a code to cov= er the fact that as the first man/elf couple, H/C would > have made Luthien= /Beren seem that tiny bit less spectacular. If > their story took place in= the Vatican, Dan Brown would write a book > on it, mark my words. ;-P *g= iggles* Actually, last Christmas I received a santa swap fic of Maglor/Hale= th... That was incredibly great to read. But seriously, sometimes I just k= now I read it somewhere ... and before I know it my hands drift off to the = book to find it. Hah, there is the reason why I have too many bunnies. ;) W= hen I read 'did great honour' I immediately have to think of a grande fete/= dance where elf lords swirl around with their beautiful companions while da= ncing and... > (Sorry, I can't seem to stay serious tonight...) Don't be = sorry :c) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1072 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75730 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 21:46:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 21:46:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.169) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 21:46:04 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n8.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 21:46:01 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 21:46:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2007 21:46:00 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:46:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <107562.28931.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=67kAiAptd6AYIWOfPk_bb3VpJLDQBDs-8oHlIXZCNrxtCG8f_g31raY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore wrote: > >>> Also, character sketches/descriptions are always wel= come ... and I >>> don't think we have one yet for Caranthir. ;) > > Here'= s a description: > > The hottest hott elf to ever grace the world with hi= s hott presence. > > ;D Oh my! > ~Tarion (Dawn, if you're finished wi= th Caranthir, can I have him > next? 0:D ) Oh thank goodness I wasn't the= only one with my mind in the gutter when I read that comment. That must be= one helluvah happy elf now! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1073 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39240 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 22:02:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 22:02:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s9.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.145) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 22:02:11 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.48.113]) by bay0-omc2-s9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:02:01 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:02:01 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.48.123 by by137fd.bay137.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:01:22 GMT X-Originating-Email: [atanwende@hotmail.com] X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:01:22 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2007 22:02:01.0455 (UTC) FILETIME=[9FA97FF0:01C7B83D] Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Unsung Heroine" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble [OT...] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=oIPevblauU0w2d3QFa1sTHVxERtLGW93cWl4gUHl0czNSreu X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende >From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" >Reply-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble [OT...] >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:04:19 -0000 > >--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Unsung Heroine" > wrote: > > > > ... and now I've realized that "misanthropist" isn't actually a word >at all. > > "Misanthrope", and "misanthropic" on the other side are. Stoopid >me. ;) > >No, you're cool. Misanthropist is indeed a real word. It's an accepted >variant of misanthrope. > Is it? Because I just thought "Wait, sounds strange!", then wanted to look it up in the dictionary and didn't find it. But well, whatever... :) >I'm just taking the opportunity to be obnoxiously pedantic about the >SWG's two favorite subspecies of Homo sapiens. The cute and >misanthropic Caranthir is a fine specimen of one of these. :^) > _________________________________________________________________ Wenn Ihnen E-Mail nicht schnell genug ist: MSN Messenger! - http://www.imagine-msn.com/messenger/default2.aspx?locale=de Kostenlos downloaden! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1074 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48203 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 22:08:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 22:08:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 22:08:00 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 300EB5806B for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:07:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:07:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:07:52 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <263507234.20070627000752@tlen.pl> To: "DawnFelagund@comcast.net" In-Reply-To: <062620072033.3153.46817806000C363100000C5122155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> References: <062620072033.3153.46817806000C363100000C5122155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=OabUpqf2QbE674DktzOp3Hfwm5XRQoUtdYAR5KFyMXzjpxjNWWg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai DawnFelagund, Dcn> drawings take me hours and still never look right. ;) It is exactly the same in my case ;P Hmmm, I should not send a post with one line only, so I'll add another. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1075 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48462 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2007 22:13:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2007 22:13:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s35.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.171) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2007 22:13:05 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.48.113]) by bay0-omc2-s35.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:11:08 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:11:08 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.48.123 by by137fd.bay137.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:11:07 GMT X-Originating-Email: [atanwende@hotmail.com] X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <062620071957.15193.46816FA60003AF8600003B5922155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:11:07 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2007 22:11:08.0623 (UTC) FILETIME=[E5CCB5F0:01C7B83E] Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Unsung Heroine" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=Fy4TPw75dlqyKNSx1v1Lb6XtrXpxnlFqTWXJMtwxRPHowA-P X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende >From: DawnFelagund@comcast.net >Reply-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Daily Drabble >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:57:26 +0000 > >From: "Unsung Heroine" > > > But it is hard, in the end I picked out two > > >paragraphs (give or take) that would be key to the story. Otherwise > > >I'd be stealing lines here and there that wouldn't make much sense. > > > > > > > Yes, I see a problem there, too. I think it will come down to a >paragraph > > with me, too. > >I found it easiest with my excerpts (and the excerpts that I received from >others that I found particularly effective) to pick an event in that >character's canon and choose a piece based on that. Not to capture the >whole story but just a moment's reaction to an event. Because the >stories/artwork will be presented next to a summary of what is happening in >the canon, you don't have to worry about context. So "Caranthir's distress >at Ulfang's betrayal" (because I know you have a story about that, UH ;) >and just a snippet that describes that. Also, lines can be cut if need be, >to eliminate middle sections that don't really contribute to the purpose. > >Also, character sketches/descriptions are always welcome ... and I don't >think we have one yet for Caranthir. ;) > >Just my two cents ... some things that I found helped when wading through >millions of words with the intention of presenting just a couple hundred. >:) Hehe, I don't even have written millions of words, you know. ;) Anyway, I've picked out some excerpts and sent them your way. I even found a brand new drabble (as in "written months ago but somehow never posted") on my hard drive! As for character descriptions... I thought that maybe I could go through my stories once more and simply clump together anything that fits that description... I'm not so sure if I'll find a lot though. Most of my stuff is about C having the hots for H and vice versa, and how they think that everyone else is a meanie. ;) > > - UH :-D _________________________________________________________________ Wenn Ihnen E-Mail nicht schnell genug ist: MSN Messenger! - http://www.imagine-msn.com/messenger/default2.aspx?locale=de Kostenlos downloaden! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1076 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35548 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2007 03:14:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jun 2007 03:14:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.243) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2007 03:14:30 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n27.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2007 03:14:30 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2007 03:14:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2007 03:14:30 -0000 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:14:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: 7 in 07 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=xGayk5EdNlIdqGwucuanqoUrpRhFAJmEhpXsPB2XG-vS6k6JcAMtzg X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser I think this was a great idea, Dawn, and I can't wait to see what everyone= sent in! (I know, I know...I'm not rushing you - I know moving is a majo= r nuisance! So, you know, whenever....) And now I should really get back = to work on my WIPs that have been languishing for the past few weeks. Why= is it that I get tons of inspiration when I have no time, but as soon as = the opportunity to write is there, I have no drive to? Perverse. ~ Mi= thLuin From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1077 Return-Path: X-Sender: hrymfaxe@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7580 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2007 07:47:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jun 2007 07:47:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.109) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2007 07:47:39 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2007 07:47:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2007 07:47:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2007 07:47:26 -0000 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:47:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <062620072033.3153.46817806000C363100000C5122155934140B029A090E040A0002990E0B@comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "hrymfaxe" Subject: Re: Daily Drabble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=311315064; y=eUABSXgA93-ZoHGZMspaWmZLxV2f6BlElocCA1WS-_Bjuns X-Yahoo-Profile: hrymfaxe --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, DawnFelagund@... wrote: >= > From: "hrymfaxe" > > Well, at the very least you inspired= me, Dawn! Although, my daily challenge will not be in the form of a drabb= le, since I can't > write > > and certainly not under pressure, I will try= to do a daily drawing! :) > > Wow! That's much more ambitious than a dr= abble. Or maybe I'm just revealing my own lack of experience with artwork;= drawings take me hours and still never look right. ;) > > Dawn > Haha,= yes it does take more than 15 minutes - but to outline an idea and get it= down on paper in a sketch should be possible. The finished work takes a b= it more tweaking. But I'm not exactly aiming for perfection, rather to be = inspired to draw things, I wouldn't normally do, and to try and convey mea= ning, feeling etc, if not perfect facial features! :) There will cerainly = not be one everyday (it's more like a every- other-daily drawing) - but I'm= excited by the idea. Marie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1078 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70858 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2007 13:30:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jun 2007 13:30:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jun 2007 13:30:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2007 13:28:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2007 13:28:49 -0000 Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 13:28:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Temporary Moderation Change X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=wVINsOqhGlvlw7gkjay4vDoOZnSKIkh3CJB6rwh4Mj22NdPnzJEH X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, everyone, As some of you probably know by now, my husband and I just bo= ught a house, and we are moving in tomorrow. As such, starting tomorrow, I= will be without Internet until we can get the new house connected. Unfor= tunately, I have no idea how long that will be; likely on the order of a f= ew days. Usually, of course, group matters are welcome both at the moderat= or account and on my personal email account. Until I'm back online, howeve= r, I'm asking group members to direct SWG-related email to the moderator a= ccount. All of the SWG mods/admins have access to this email and will be c= hecking in periodically to answer any questions or resolve any issues that= may arise. The moderator email account can be reached at: moderator@= silmarillionwritersguild.org Seven in '07 will still start on 1 July, reg= ardless of whether I'm online by then or not. My sister Sharon will be upl= oading the website files for us and Tarion will be taking care of the ann= ouncements. One final note, as of tomorrow, my personal email will also b= e changing. I'll no longer be a Comcast customer, so my new email is Dawn= Felagund@gmail.com. As always, any of you are welcome to email me personal= ly, so feel free to make note of it. Enjoy Seven in '07 and I hope to "se= e" you all soon! All the best, Dawn Felagund From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1079 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93143 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2007 13:39:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jun 2007 13:39:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jun 2007 13:39:30 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so1189605pyb for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2007 06:39:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=iASU7mVe0NjiEwnrJLnwZIOpwIAM2zDozQ62SnbzmyIq+/TZB5zSE3UfOnA4Bf04jZyzHzBhix6XIJxySNqI3J9bqLUxG/sY1JZCYXQrGuKhjKPXQLh8UGIJnKOIG/75lPbqQd3h8un0v8/JI8+RvD29afjp7Tkzp6HOrdK5zWU= Received: by 10.35.27.2 with SMTP id e2mr2963383pyj.1183037970341; Thu, 28 Jun 2007 06:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?66.61.110.183? ( [66.61.110.183]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 15sm5771885nzo.2007.06.28.06.39.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 28 Jun 2007 06:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4683B9A7.6070900@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:37:43 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Marta Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Temporary Moderation Change X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=EOGk-6uOA3JXb3vjbSyvLzudJF5R1BEta9oOnj18Cqaann0oA7bFnA X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva > One final note, as of tomorrow, my personal email will also be > changing. I'll no longer be a Comcast customer, so my new email is > DawnFelagund@gmail.com . As always, any > of you are welcome to email > me personally, so feel free to make note of it. > Hi Dawn, I meant to ask you when you mentioned this at your personal LJ--have you updated your email address with the MEFAs? Would you like me to change it there, so if we ever need to email you about the awards the messages go to the gmail address? Best of look with the move! Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1080 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17639 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2007 14:24:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jun 2007 14:24:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jun 2007 14:24:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2007 14:23:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2007 14:23:59 -0000 Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:23:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4683B9A7.6070900@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Temporary Moderation Change X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=rSYzJv6Dk6PlcxMP0CpyEF8crzPPcBzP_uLgk22R-5c35Tt89wyo X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Marta wrot= e: > I meant to ask you when you mentioned this at your personal LJ-- have= you > updated your email address with the MEFAs? Would you like me to ch= ange > it there, so if we ever need to email you about the awards the mes= sages > go to the gmail address? You did ask me ... I just haven't been a= ble to reply to my LJ comments yet. (The trouble being that I can't use LJ= at work! :^P) Thanks so much; I updated my MEFA profile this morning, so = you should have my new address. I have a little sticky on my laptop at th= e moment with a list of all the places I need to change my email. Trouble = is, I keep adding more faster than I get around to changing them! > Best = of look with the move! Thank you! I'm looking forward to living in a home = again where it is possible to walk without tripping over cardboard boxes! = :) Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1081 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85478 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2007 17:40:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2007 17:40:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.125) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2007 17:40:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 84045 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jul 2007 17:40:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ZvaczowVM1m6tGmvnHQtM6GAWbT4zKJ2yROHMAbbT2THgi6aSqFpzKAzbrI..yiUDGFu5Ru8r_hm0HRrlKgPFfjF6mg5OQd9W6JgJsryv7idwxo- Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 Jul 2007 10:40:37 PDT Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 10:40:37 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1020950235-1183311637=:82502" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <146735.82502.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Seven in '07 at SWG! Sunday 01/07/07 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=v_AHzhZLuaQaHLLjrJjBTyVymfpiJZ5W8I4NMKLkE8ASjHuECBGSCxs X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1020950235-1183311637=:82502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. A few weeks ago, we asked authors and artists to share with us their favorite creative works about the F�anorians, and they answered our challenge. We received over one hundred submissions from more than two dozen writers and artists, everything from poetry to tapestries, drabbles to digital paintings. We have since been compiling these to provide a fan-illustrated history of each character from the House of F�anor. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth. Today's character is Maedhros. The eldest son of F�anor, few Silmarillion characters command the hearts of fans the way that Maedhros does. One of the chief architects of unity and peace among the Noldor, he was nonetheless haunted by an oath that constantly turned his greatest deeds to grievous ends: great beauty marred by evil, allegiance thwarted by treachery, and a hero turned kinslayer in the pursuit of the impossible. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/maedhros.php We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG! May the muses smile upon you, SWG Moderators Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php ~T�rion --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-1020950235-1183311637=:82502 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. A few weeks ago, we asked authors and artists to share with us their favorite creative works about the F�anorians, and they answered our challenge. We received over one hundred submissions from more than two dozen writers and artists, everything from poetry to tapestries, drabbles to digital paintings. We have since been compiling these to provide a fan-illustrated history of each character from the House of F�anor.
 
For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth.
 
Today's character is Maedhros. The eldest son of F�anor, few Silmarillion characters command the hearts of fans the way that Maedhros does. One of the chief architects of unity and peace among the Noldor, he was nonetheless haunted by an oath that constantly turned his greatest deeds to grievous ends: great beauty marred by evil, allegiance thwarted by treachery, and a hero turned kinslayer in the pursuit of the impossible.
 
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/maedhros.php
 
We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG!
 
May the muses smile upon you,
SWG Moderators
 
Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php

~T�rion

Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-1020950235-1183311637=:82502-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1082 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80135 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2007 02:44:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2007 02:44:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2007 02:44:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 31914 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jul 2007 02:44:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Ii9JqqIVM1k_7dKTCCcDPlrbXdWvmS1avUbT.seJmrJ5Gseyq5eQN9bD8xqciEQp.uOAIpftaRQ_mO6LVYUteZMOHlfkVJF27Y5_zA8T1PCdmaXLC7pBCGG.sWNyS9otvjT8cRy6hrfrIEI- Received: from [75.183.97.25] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 Jul 2007 19:44:54 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.38 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.16 Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 19:44:54 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1938095813-1183344294=:31402" Message-ID: <222100.31402.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Seven in '07 at SWG! Sunday 01/07/07 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=FFQfoXxZdDIVODfPHYp5a-WPBBEws3is32ol3vCjuHGGiPZeAQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1938095813-1183344294=:31402 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is Elleth - the artist for the Losgar - part of the group? If so, my compli= ments on that art. Its amazing! Great job all contributing on the Maedhro= s page. ----- Original Message ---- From: Tarion Anarore To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Henneth_Annun@yahoo= groups.com Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 1:40:37 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWrit= ersGuild] Seven in '07 at SWG! Sunday 01/07/07 = For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to= honor the House of F=EBanor, especially the inspiration these characters p= rovide to the Tolkien fan community. A few weeks ago, we asked authors and = artists to share with us their favorite creative works about the F=EBanoria= ns, and they answered our challenge. We received over one hundred submissio= ns from more than two dozen writers and artists, everything from poetry to = tapestries, drabbles to digital paintings. We have since been compiling the= se to provide a fan-illustrated history of each character from the House of= F=EBanor. For each day during the first week of July, we will unvei= l a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that chara= cter, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the c= haracter's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth. Today's = character is Maedhros. The eldest son of F=EBanor, few Silmarillion charact= ers command the hearts of fans the way that Maedhros does. One of the chief= architects of unity and peace among the Noldor, he was nonetheless haunted= by an oath that constantly turned his greatest deeds to grievous ends: gre= at beauty marred by evil, allegiance thwarted by treachery, and a hero turn= ed kinslayer in the pursuit of the impossible. http://www.silmaril l= ionwritersguild .org/sevenin07/ maedhros. php We hope that you enjoy= the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the = House of F=EBanor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! = And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your crea= tivity on SWG! May the muses smile upon you, SWG Moderators = Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/sevenin0= 7. php ~T=E1rion Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at= Yahoo! Autos. _______________________________________= _____________________________________________ Park yourself in front of a w= orld of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center= . http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ --0-1938095813-1183344294=:31402 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Is Elleth - the artist for the Losgar - part of the group? If so, my c= ompliments on that art. Its amazing!

Great job all contributing on = the Maedhros page.

----- Original Message ----
= From: Tarion Anarore
To: SilmarillionWr= itersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, = July 1, 2007 1:40:37 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Seven in '07= at SWG! Sunday 01/07/07

=

For the month of July, the Silmarilli= on Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F=EBanor, especially th= e inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. A few = weeks ago, we asked authors and artists to share with us their favorite cre= ative works about the F=EBanorians, and they answered our challenge. We rec= eived over one hundred submissions from more than two dozen writers and art= ists, everything from poetry to tapestries, drabbles to digital paintings. = We have since been compiling these to provide a fan-illustrated history of = each character from the House of F=EBanor.
=  
For each day during the first week = of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and di= scussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have creat= ed to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-= earth.
 
Today's character is Maedhros. The eldest son of F=EBanor, few Silm= arillion characters command the hearts of fans the way that Maedhros do= es. One of the chief architects of unity and peace among the Noldor, he was= nonetheless haunted by an oath that constantly turned his greatest deeds t= o grievous ends: great beauty marred by evil, allegiance thwarted by treach= ery, and a hero turned kinslayer in the pursuit of the impossible.
<= div class=3D"MsoNormal">  
http://www.silmaril lionwr= itersguild .org/sevenin07/ maedhros. php
 
We hope that you enjoy the wor= ks presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of= F=EBanor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of c= ourse, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity = on SWG!
 
May the muses smile upon you,
SWG Mod= erators
 
Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmaril l= ionwritersguild .org/sevenin07. php

~T=E1rion

D= on't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at = Yahoo! Autos.



<= hr size=3D1>Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers <= /a>from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. --0-1938095813-1183344294=:31402-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1083 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81287 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2007 04:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2007 04:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2007 04:36:44 -0000 Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.d45.c8ac7a9 (14501) for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 00:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 00:36:15 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1183350965" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5014 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Seven in '07 at SWG! Sunday 01/07/07 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=EgF_ttPsWarg2Aj4aGslWD07sV2SyL5v93eXh8aWqYlATbXkIw X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth -------------------------------1183350965 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am - thank you very much for just making my morning. :) - Elleth Is Elleth - the artist for the Losgar - part of the group? If so, my compliments on that art. Its amazing! Great job all contributing on the Maedhros page. ----- Original Message ---- From: Tarion Anarore To: SilmarillionWritersTo: SilmarilTo: SilmarillionWriteTo: Sil -------------------------------1183350965 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I am - than= k you very much for just making my morning. :)
 
- Elleth

Is = Elleth - the artist for the Losgar - part of the group? If so, my complimen= ts on that art. Its amazing!

Great job all contributing on the M= aedhros page.

----- Original Message ----
From: Tarion Anarore yahoo.com>
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups
 
 -------------------------------1183350965-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1084 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65060 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2007 14:06:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2007 14:06:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.115) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2007 14:06:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 32324 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jul 2007 14:05:51 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: hEV4PAUVM1nrqPzmxbkNLe6cg0UrYhVOjr8Sw6RLmP_U35ZaL31j4JMwSoOGOYeHd8zkm09y2Ll7WEHqE7VLZamNoUbE22B6KZPImBZK1bTOcK9EsU1Chtlt2NpETA-- Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 07:05:50 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 07:05:50 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-477167224-1183385150=:32271" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <43620.32271.qm@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Seven in '07: Monday 02/07/07 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=wAzTVyfG_ILiNMUyWfSaYAP2cI8i4O_yHvVs8sfH2P_h_nlnvLpkGLo X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-477167224-1183385150=:32271 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Monday, 02/07/07 For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth. Today's character is Maglor. Often portrayed by fans as the gentlest of the brothers--and certainly the most repentant--Maglor was known for his singing voice and skill with music. Nonetheless, in taking his father's oath, his hands and mind were turned from constructing things of beauty into making war. A brave warrior and a soulful poet, the conflicting natures of the second son of F�anor captivate fans like no other. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/maglor.php We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG! May the muses smile upon you, SWG Moderators Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php ~T�rion --------------------------------- Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. --0-477167224-1183385150=:32271 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Monday, 02/07/07
 
For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth.
 
Today's character is Maglor. Often portrayed by fans as the gentlest of the brothers--and certainly the most repentant--Maglor was known for his singing voice and skill with music. Nonetheless, in taking his father's oath, his hands and mind were turned from constructing things of beauty into making war. A brave warrior and a soulful poet, the conflicting natures of the second son of F�anor captivate fans like no other.
 
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/maglor.php
 
We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG!
 
May the muses smile upon you,
SWG Moderators
 
Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php


~T�rion

 Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. --0-477167224-1183385150=:32271-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1085 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69415 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2007 15:25:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2007 15:25:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.113) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2007 15:25:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 53985 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jul 2007 15:25:12 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 6GZMvdkVM1ksshxuDdoHj1kotqPB6PnLmm7BgzXpBNuZyjf5rxz9gkQloDY_RNr_ckWjj7pFGH97eCwQrKvQOe1.U7M2RLw5v6UTIRlypXTVrzsdX2_0mnUUFw-- Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 08:25:11 PDT Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 08:25:11 -0700 (PDT) To: Henneth Annun , SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-69652006-1183476311=:46199" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <876818.46199.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Seven in '07: Tuesday 03/07/07 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=39JkNd_9CXpsg3k_Vkf7NH9LgCnLud40EMbQ2OlRjc6VtKxlAQ_K_hU X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-69652006-1183476311=:46199 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth. Today's character is Celegorm. Celegorm is often a convenient villain in The Silmarillion but a closer look at his character shows him to be more complex than such black-and-white portrayals suggest. Once a loyal follower of Orom�, a lover of the natural world, and a passionate speaker after his father, Celegorm exemplifies that tragic fall of a character destined for great things and brought low by the pursuit of vengeance. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/celegorm.php We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG! May the muses smile upon you, SWG Moderators Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php ~T�rion --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. --0-69652006-1183476311=:46199 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth.
 
Today's character is Celegorm. Celegorm is often a convenient villain in The Silmarillion but a closer look at his character shows him to be more complex than such black-and-white portrayals suggest. Once a loyal follower of Orom�, a lover of the natural world, and a passionate speaker after his father, Celegorm exemplifies that tragic fall of a character destined for great things and brought low by the pursuit of vengeance.
 
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/celegorm.php
 
We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG!
 
May the muses smile upon you,
SWG Moderators
 
Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php


~T�rion

Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. --0-69652006-1183476311=:46199-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1086 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91679 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 02:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 02:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 02:02:43 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC4274806A for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 03:57:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 03:57:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 03:57:31 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1052775690.20070704035731@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <43620.32271.qm@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <43620.32271.qm@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=bpOGRAPeRcXRkDqZV_XNQfrqFB9GpHF1ISevHQHClZuZw_TcC3o X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai maniacs, accidentally I stepped on interesting info at Facebook Silm group, let me quite you the most important part: "Maybe these info are from the Vinyar Tengwar (that's where the bit about Nerdanel having brown hair came from). (...) EDIT: Yup--the bit about Mahtan having a beard is from VT (I suspect the bit about Mahtan and Maedhros being similiar is from VT as well): As published in the linguistic journal Vinyar Tengwar, JRRT wrote: "Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of life. Nerdanel's father was exceptional, being only early in his second." Marielle, it's from Vinyar Tengwar #41." So in fact,if that's truth Nerdanel's red hair (or brown) are canon, not fanon as we stated. It would be grat if anyone with VT #41 handy have checked it in a free while :) And if there is more about elven life cycles. I'm really curious if there is only one line there. In a discussion on a message board there was info about all the three stages, but I don't know if it was based on some of other line from VT or topic starter's hypothesis only. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1087 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92240 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 03:29:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 03:29:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.117) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 03:29:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 62985 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jul 2007 03:28:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Xf06jUkVM1l59mDqwckkdwPxG9pbU7ky8h.Qi4RcNU.dO1T8RQjy.th7CpUmrd9Id8BHnJCKtZzJQyngX5TMaiVxvWKHkWOcPQX5dkko9mFPeFssrktP.EGKb7GXdw-- Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 20:28:28 PDT Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 20:28:28 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1052775690.20070704035731@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-466862995-1183519708=:62681" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <677629.62681.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=eGYJiXrRb4657f31BY9EkITynMmjzYUFU1nrxsmh4elzxgfCQsSJJ5U X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-466862995-1183519708=:62681 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Whoa-ho! Facebook group?? Which one is it? Okay, sorry for the brief near-squee! but the Facebook part caught my eye, and I'm a wee bit tired and therefore silly... Tarion Sirielle wrote: Ai maniacs, accidentally I stepped on interesting info at Facebook Silm group, let me quite you the most important part: ~T�rion --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. --0-466862995-1183519708=:62681 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Whoa-ho! Facebook group?? Which one is it?

Okay, sorry for the brief near-squee! but the Facebook part caught my eye, and I'm a wee bit tired and therefore silly...

Tarion

Sirielle wrote:
Ai maniacs,

accidentally I stepped on interesting info at Facebook Silm group, let
me quite you the most important part:



~T�rion

Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. --0-466862995-1183519708=:62681-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1088 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46643 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 08:19:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 08:19:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 08:19:46 -0000 Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.bee.17c54325 (52832) for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 04:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail-dd08 (webmail-dd08.webmail.aol.com [205.188.104.8]) by cia-m01.mx.aol.com (v117.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAM018-ce60468b581d21; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:19:41 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:19:42 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI In-Reply-To: <677629.62681.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8C98C2B34E56097_4EC_78DA_webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL eMail 28363 Received: from 134.100.149.84 by webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com (205.188.104.8) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:19:42 -0400 Message-Id: <8C98C2B34E56097-4EC-3C3F@webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 205.188.104.8 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=4I2lbZr28de3T5iFFIx5QGU2GaHCMcC05CZAvkUOJJhkTBzTrQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth ----------MB_8C98C2B34E56097_4EC_78DA_webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" There is one sentence, and one sentence only (I think even scribbled into= the margin of Tolkien's writings) that Nerdanel had brown hair, nothing mo= re. There is a discussion about the etymology of the color red as pertainin= g to hair, with Maedhros and Mahtan being cited, iirc. I don't have that VT= here, nor the possibility to look it up right now, but perhaps Dawn (when = she is back) can help you clarify that particular fact. I sent the relevant= info to her a while ago. Elleth -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung--= --- Von: Tarion Anarore An: SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroups.com Verschickt: Mi., 4. Jul. 2007, 5:28 Thema: Re: [Silma= rillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards = Whoa-ho! Facebook group?? Which one is it? O= kay, sorry for the brief near-squee! but the Facebook part caught my eye, a= nd I'm a wee bit tired and therefore silly... Tarion Sirielle wrote: Ai maniacs, accidentally = I stepped on interesting info at Facebook Silm group, let me quite you the= most important part: ~T=C3=A1rion Finding fabulous fares is fu= n. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight an= d hotel bargains. ____________________________= ____________________________________________ Bei AOL gibt's jetzt kostenlos= eMail f=C3=BCr alle. Klicken Sie auf AOL.de um heraus zu finden, was es s= onst noch kostenlos bei AOL gibt. ----------MB_8C98C2B34E56097_4EC_78DA_webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
There is one sentence, and one sentence only (I think even scribbled= into the margin of Tolkien's writings) that Nerdanel had brown hair, nothi= ng more. There is a discussion about the etymology of the color red as pert= aining to hair, with Maedhros and Mahtan being cited, iirc. I don't have th= at VT here, nor the possibility to look it up right now, but perhaps Dawn (= when she is back) can help you clarify that particular fact. I sent the rel= evant info to her a while ago.

Elleth

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Tarion Anarore
An: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Verschickt: Mi., 4. Jul. 2007, 5:28
Thema: Re: [SilmarillionWritersG= uild] Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards

Whoa-ho! Facebook group??= Which one is it?

Okay, sorry for the brief near-squee! but the F= acebook part caught my eye, and I'm a wee bit tired and therefore silly...<= br>
Tarion

Sirielle pl> wrote:
<= div>Ai maniacs,

accidentally I stepped on interesting info at Fa= cebook Silm group, let
me quite you the most important part:



~T=C3=A1rion
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let= Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and = hotel bargains.
Bei AOL gibt's jetzt kostenlo= s eMail für alle! Was es sonst noch umsonst bei AOL gibt, finden Sie h= ier heraus AOL.de.
----------MB_8C98C2B34E56097_4EC_78DA_webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1089 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17943 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 08:19:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 08:19:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 08:19:49 -0000 Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.cbd.14431ff8 (52849) for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 04:19:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail-dd08 (webmail-dd08.webmail.aol.com [205.188.104.8]) by cia-m04.mx.aol.com (v117.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAM041-ce71468b5820374; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:19:44 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:19:44 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI In-Reply-To: <677629.62681.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8C98C2B369C14DF_4EC_78DC_webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL eMail 28363 Received: from 134.100.149.84 by webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com (205.188.104.8) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:19:44 -0400 Message-Id: <8C98C2B369C14DF-4EC-3C40@webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 205.188.104.8 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=KEFsCj6_-YAAzdMgZ9V-HDdx3SI4aPE3LkFEEq-gQTagYk1Yug X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth ----------MB_8C98C2B369C14DF_4EC_78DC_webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" There is one sentence, and one sentence only (I think even scribbled into= the margin of Tolkien's writings) that Nerdanel had brown hair, nothing mo= re. There is a discussion about the etymology of the color red as pertainin= g to hair, with Maedhros and Mahtan being cited, iirc. I don't have that VT= here, nor the possibility to look it up right now, but perhaps Dawn (when = she is back) can help you clarify that particular fact. I sent the relevant= info to her a while ago. Elleth -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung--= --- Von: Tarion Anarore An: SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroups.com Verschickt: Mi., 4. Jul. 2007, 5:28 Thema: Re: [Silma= rillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards = Whoa-ho! Facebook group?? Which one is it? O= kay, sorry for the brief near-squee! but the Facebook part caught my eye, a= nd I'm a wee bit tired and therefore silly... Tarion Sirielle wrote: Ai maniacs, accidentally = I stepped on interesting info at Facebook Silm group, let me quite you the= most important part: ~T=C3=A1rion Finding fabulous fares is fu= n. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight an= d hotel bargains. ____________________________= ____________________________________________ Bei AOL gibt's jetzt kostenlos= eMail f=C3=BCr alle. Klicken Sie auf AOL.de um heraus zu finden, was es s= onst noch kostenlos bei AOL gibt. ----------MB_8C98C2B369C14DF_4EC_78DC_webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
There is one sentence, and one sentence only (I think even scribbled= into the margin of Tolkien's writings) that Nerdanel had brown hair, nothi= ng more. There is a discussion about the etymology of the color red as pert= aining to hair, with Maedhros and Mahtan being cited, iirc. I don't have th= at VT here, nor the possibility to look it up right now, but perhaps Dawn (= when she is back) can help you clarify that particular fact. I sent the rel= evant info to her a while ago.

Elleth

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Tarion Anarore
An: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Verschickt: Mi., 4. Jul. 2007, 5:28
Thema: Re: [SilmarillionWritersG= uild] Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards

Bei AOL gibt's jetzt kostenlo= s eMail für alle! Was es sonst noch umsonst bei AOL gibt, finden Sie h= ier heraus AOL.de.
----------MB_8C98C2B369C14DF_4EC_78DC_webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1090 Return-Path: X-Sender: anarchy@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57395 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 11:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 11:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.125) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 11:57:11 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 11:55:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 11:55:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 11:55:53 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:55:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <677629.62681.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Klose" Subject: Re: Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=294946863; y=Ml5fCyMgSpqh9VVjOxGxXCW3_ZqcWMDHeHIkJwxtVN_xHK4KNQ X-Yahoo-Profile: klose_enuf LOL, Tarion, my reaction was the same - "hang on, there's a Silmarillion fa= cebook group?!" Funnily enough, I've actually stumbled across the group Si= rielle's talking about - but I never joined it though, don't know why. Se= arch under "Silmarillion" and look at the results for groups, it should be = the top result. ("I Actually Read The Silmarillion - and I Liked It!" so tr= ue!) Klose --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anar= ore wrote: > > Whoa-ho! Facebook group?? Which one is = it? > > Okay, sorry for the brief near-squee! but the Facebook part caugh= t my eye, and I'm a wee bit tired and therefore silly... > > Tarion > > S= irielle wrote: Ai maniacs, = > > accidentally I stepped on interesting info at Facebook Silm group, l= et > me quite you the most important part: > > > > > > > > ~T=EF=BF= =BDrion > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1091 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98637 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 13:10:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 13:10:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.244) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 13:10:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 13:09:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 13:09:35 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:09:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8C98C2B369C14DF-4EC-3C40@webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=j2gI71XkcJzXcQV4wfOk8xBSPovB7eUoIJDoI4n4M-5brRGW78U5kFQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LadyElleth@... wrote: > > = > There is one sentence, and one sentence only (I think even > scribble= d into the margin of Tolkien's writings) that Nerdanel had > brown hair, n= othing more. There is a discussion about the etymology > of the color red = as pertaining to hair, with Maedhros and Mahtan > being cited, iirc. I don= 't have that VT here, nor the possibility to > look it up right now, but pe= rhaps Dawn (when she is back) can help > you clarify that particular fact.= I sent the relevant info to her a > while ago. I've been following the E= lfling discussions and it's fascinating. Anyway, now when it comes down to = the hair colour of that side of the family, I be more than happy to refer p= eople to you or Dawn ^-^ Maybe you girls can team up and combine all that k= nowlegde in an essay? Just a thought. I knew of Mahtan's beard, just as Ci= rdan has one... :c) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1092 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91548 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 13:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 13:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 13:23:08 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12.go2.pl [193.17.41.142]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 1C2D223092D for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:21:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698C33E810A for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:02:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:02:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:02:53 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1981934514.20070704150253@tlen.pl> To: Klose In-Reply-To: References: <677629.62681.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Facebook X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=hUmw5tEY8I57JdzgJ7DBF9jHcqnJWnET1c1prKZJpHq7oEz87wI X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Klose and T�rion, K> LOL, Tarion, my reaction was the same - "hang on, there's a K> Silmarillion facebook group?!" What is so strange about it? I bet there is a group for everything on Facebook ;) Anyway Silmarillion brought me there, I didn't know about Facebook existence before F�anor has asked to support him there ;P K> Funnily enough, I've actually stumbled across the group Sirielle's K> talking about - but I never joined it though, don't know why. K> "I Actually Read The Silmarillion - and I Liked It!" so true! Yup, that's it: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2207497706 Though I prefer the name of this group: "Tolkien is my religion, The Silmarillion is my Bible, Eru is my God" http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2216718934 Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1093 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55961 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 15:13:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 15:13:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 15:13:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 15:13:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 15:13:04 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:13:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1981934514.20070704150253@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Facebook X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=5o16GMv15kE3bKek2Ba6qygduyiLB7Ns31AKzBKisJiO_13zKTJgnMc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: >K> Funnily enough, I've actually stumbled across the group >K> Sir= ielle's talking about - but I never joined it though, don't >K>know why. = "I Actually Read The Silmarillion - and I Liked It!" so >K>true! > > Yup,= that's it: > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3D2207497706 > > Th= ough I prefer the name of this group: > "Tolkien is my religion, The Silmar= illion is my Bible, Eru is my > God" > > http://www.facebook.com/group.ph= p?gid=3D2216718934 For both you have to log in to see it... And yeah, I a= m curious ;) Rhapsody (so many groups, so little time) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1094 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56722 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 16:36:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 16:36:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.120) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 16:36:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 22211 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jul 2007 16:36:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: RZuRIs0VM1lB0JRBXbdz6mh5v7fGfQpc9CuJPcsI5ahGZi7qoCnD1.aybDvrdX.dIGAnwjvbd4VsxtKPTNhLOwT2aaaOTHORZM6zLwEuYjjzMYWeSIizm7D8Rg-- Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:36:01 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:36:01 -0700 (PDT) To: Henneth Annun , SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1501767930-1183566961=:22075" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <855540.22075.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Seven in '07: Wednesday 04/07/07 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=WCd-Z9ZvNTJCrQaRaFoUgUkex8Vzz8XAiUVjZQUj_UMJ9k15AjkBENc X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1501767930-1183566961=:22075 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth. Today's character is Caranthir. Called the "harshest of the brothers" and known for his temper, Caranthir is a character seemingly easy to overlook. But he is also to credit for forging a relationship with both Dwarves and Men, promoting allegiances that could have saved the people of Beleriand. Like his brothers, though, Caranthir's deeds were always shadowed by his oath, and even his best deeds were ruined in the end by treachery. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/caranthir.php We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG! May the muses smile upon you, SWG Moderators Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php ~T�rion --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. --0-1501767930-1183566961=:22075 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth.
 
Today's character is Caranthir. Called the "harshest of the brothers" and known for his temper, Caranthir is a character seemingly easy to overlook. But he is also to credit for forging a relationship with both Dwarves and Men, promoting allegiances that could have saved the people of Beleriand. Like his brothers, though, Caranthir's deeds were always shadowed by his oath, and even his best deeds were ruined in the end by treachery.
 
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/caranthir.php
 
We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG!
 
May the muses smile upon you,
SWG Moderators
 
Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php


~T�rion

Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids. --0-1501767930-1183566961=:22075-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1095 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87687 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 16:45:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 16:45:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.127) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 16:45:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 49969 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jul 2007 16:45:02 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: BrkeJ8kVM1kHovTpk4k6FUUcE7pQgpPg4v.ZvK8k.Y1OzfSw420HxXzz2h727xK1u1nGPOAkQMPLDRDBIevWTLepS1avqlA4jt83sBAhx8sqCultq0xudprH Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:45:02 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:45:02 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1981934514.20070704150253@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2123003124-1183567502=:48682" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <602273.48682.qm@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Facebook X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=HgIOYczUCuTZsES0UYAWeEnbXyjF8qAOK0z43Ibjqs-Bf0MnQJ2hfqg X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-2123003124-1183567502=:48682 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, the existence isn't surprising, the fact that I didn't realize it existed *is*! But now I've joined and will have to remember to check the discussions! Sirielle wrote: Ai Klose and T�rion, K> LOL, Tarion, my reaction was the same - "hang on, there's a K> Silmarillion facebook group?!" What is so strange about it? I bet there is a group for everything on Facebook ;) Anyway Silmarillion brought me there, I didn't know about Facebook existence before F�anor has asked to support him there ;P K> Funnily enough, I've actually stumbled across the group Sirielle's K> talking about - but I never joined it though, don't know why. K> "I Actually Read The Silmarillion - and I Liked It!" so true! Yup, that's it: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2207497706 Though I prefer the name of this group: "Tolkien is my religion, The Silmarillion is my Bible, Eru is my God" http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2216718934 Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ ~T�rion --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. --0-2123003124-1183567502=:48682 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, the existence isn't surprising, the fact that I didn't realize it existed *is*! But now I've joined and will have to remember to check the discussions!

Sirielle wrote:
Ai Klose and T�rion,

K> LOL, Tarion, my reaction was the same - "hang on, there's a
K> Silmarillion facebook group?!"

What is so strange about it? I bet there is a group for everything on
Facebook ;) Anyway Silmarillion brought me there, I didn't know about
Facebook existence before F�anor has asked to support him there ;P

K> Funnily enough, I've actually stumbled across the group Sirielle's
K> talking about - but I never joined it though, don't know why.
K> "I Actually Read The Silmarillion - and I Liked It!" so true!

Yup, that's it:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2207497706

Though I prefer the name of this group:
"Tolkien is my religion, The Silmarillion is my Bible, Eru is my God"

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2216718934

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/




~T�rion

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. --0-2123003124-1183567502=:48682-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1096 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93717 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 20:10:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 20:10:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 20:10:11 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C1763E815B for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 22:03:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 22:03:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 22:03:33 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1116482335.20070704220333@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <1981934514.20070704150253@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Facebook X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=YHKDgfXXS7qDN3mE0_ZSUhOxN2_p5qmXLR3DHLg8lG_ARaVf3Io X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, r> For both you have to log in to see it... r> And yeah, I am curious ;) Names are more entertaining than the groups themselves ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1097 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39450 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 20:38:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 20:38:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 20:38:56 -0000 Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.cf5.f4d4518 (52623) for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 16:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MBLK-M22 (mblk-m22.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.66]) by cia-d12.mx.aol.com (v117.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAD121-cd8f468c0208df; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:24:40 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:24:41 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8C98C907C40A216_1B30_D1F4_MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL eMail 28363 Received: from 84.57.229.27 by MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.66) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:24:40 -0400 Message-Id: <8C98C907C40A216-1B30-67CA@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.66 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=RgW9gvdBH81JufytQKwH8hzzwnwbw7OiJqa4uAYIDNh-ULKb4g X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth ----------MB_8C98C907C40A216_1B30_D1F4_MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Maybe you girls can team up and combine all that knowlegde in an essay? Ju= st a thought. We already did - or rather, Dawn did (I just helped comp= iling some info)... the reference readers should know what I am talking abo= ut. ;) It should be published on SWG sooner or later. Mahtan's beard - is= there any indication why he grew one this early? C=C3=ADrdan is an old elf= and most probably in his third circle of life (whatever that means) alread= y, but as stated before, Mahtan is still rather young. Elleth -----U= rspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- Von: rhapsody_the_bard An: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Verschickt: Mi., 4. Jul.= 2007, 15:09 Thema: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdanel's hair color an= d elvish beards --- In Silmarill= ionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LadyElleth@... wrote: > > > There is = one sentence, and one sentence only (I think even > scribbled into the m= argin of Tolkien's writings) that Nerdanel had > brown hair, nothing more= . There is a discussion about the etymology > of the color red as pertain= ing to hair, with Maedhros and Mahtan > being cited, iirc. I don't have t= hat VT here, nor the possibility to > look it up right now, but perhaps Da= wn (when she is back) can help > you clarify that particular fact. I sent= the relevant info to her a > while ago. I've been following the Elfli= ng discussions and it's fascinating. Anyway, now when it comes down to the= hair colour of that side of the family, I be more than happy to refer peo= ple to you or Dawn ^-^ I knew of Mahtan's beard, just as Cirdan has one..= . :c) Rhapsody _________________________= _______________________________________________ Bei AOL gibt's jetzt kosten= los eMail f=C3=BCr alle. Klicken Sie auf AOL.de um heraus zu finden, was e= s sonst noch kostenlos bei AOL gibt. ----------MB_8C98C907C40A216_1B30_D1F4_MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Maybe
you girls can team up and combine all that knowlegde in an es= say? Just
a thought.

We already did - or rather, = Dawn did (I just helped compiling some info)... the reference readers shoul= d know what I am talking about. ;) It should be published on SWG sooner or = later.

Mahtan's beard - is there any indication why he grew one t= his early? C=C3=ADrdan is an old elf and most probably in his third circle = of life (whatever that means) already, but as stated before, Mahtan is stil= l rather young.

Elleth

-----Urspr= =C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: rhapsody_the_bard
An: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Verschickt= : Mi., 4. Jul. 2007, 15:09
Thema: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Nerdan= el's hair color and elvish beards

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LadyElleth@... wrote:
>
>
> Th= ere is one sentence, and one sentence only (I think even
> scribb= led into the margin of Tolkien's writings) that Nerdanel had
> bro= wn hair, nothing more. There is a discussion about the etymology
>= of the color red as pertaining to hair, with Maedhros and Mahtan
>= ; being cited, iirc. I don't have that VT here, nor the possibility to
= > look it up right now, but perhaps Dawn (when she is back) can help > you clarify that particular fact. I sent the relevant info to her = a
> while ago.

I've been following the Elfling discussi= ons and it's fascinating.
Anyway, now when it comes down to the hair c= olour of that side of the
family, I be more than happy to refer people= to you or Dawn ^-^
I knew of Mahtan's beard, just as Cirdan has one.= .. :c)

Rhapsody

Bei AOL gibt= 's jetzt kostenlos eMail für alle! Was es sonst noch umsonst bei AOL g= ibt, finden Sie hier heraus= AOL.de.
----------MB_8C98C907C40A216_1B30_D1F4_MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1098 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94063 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 21:18:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 21:18:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 21:18:31 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7DA558055 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 23:17:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 23:17:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 23:17:55 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1984633108.20070704231755@tlen.pl> To: "LadyElleth@aol.com" In-Reply-To: <8C98C907C40A216-1B30-67CA@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C98C907C40A216-1B30-67CA@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mahtan and elves age/generation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=FNydy1AbQMC1pOF7GhrpoII5chJvuAH9DPHTarCMUlsoLS7I5gQ X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai LadyElleth, Lac> Mahtan's beard - is there any indication why he grew one Lac> this early? C�rdan is an old elf and most probably in his third Lac> circle of life (whatever that means) already, but as stated Lac> before, Mahtan is still rather young. I rather understand it Mahtan was still young in his second cycle when he grew his beard. Not that he is younger at all. I would rather expect him being one of the older generation, same as Finw�. I don't see Finw� &co. being the elves who woke up, they are first born generation in vision of Arda. C�rdan would be older than them, he is like the eldest elf known by name (and this is his epess� not name), maybe the one who opened his eyes while stars shone stronger in the sky. Is there any information about that anyway? Imin, Tata and Enel doesn't count, they are just a part of the educational legend, not real elves. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1099 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69710 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 21:22:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 21:22:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 21:22:59 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C392B3E80B0 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 23:22:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 23:22:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 23:22:18 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1073553329.20070704232218@tlen.pl> To: Sirielle In-Reply-To: <1984633108.20070704231755@tlen.pl> References: <8C98C907C40A216-1B30-67CA@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com> <1984633108.20070704231755@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[3]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mahtan and elves age/generation- correction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=MRafK8c32PmeH4riaOqjeg32K1urGi_n-2B9rfXTDeDV7nPlFf0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle S> I don't see Finw� & co. being the elves who woke up, S> they are first born generation in vision of Arda. My vision, of course. I wonder if there is any canon info on that - if the three future kings of elves were born or woke up, not exactly about C�rdan; the essay about him I know. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1100 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28662 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 21:42:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 21:42:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.10) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 21:42:25 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 21:40:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 21:40:53 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:40:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8C98C907C40A216-1B30-67CA@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Nerdanel's hair color and elvish beards X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=WzRUAjn78mQ_lnh-KRgHBwDOGHMDDJhKuCfqah7G-8Sn6ohtLEXP_Po X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LadyElleth@... wrote: > >>= Maybe >> >> you girls can team up and combine all that knowlegde in an es= say? >> Just a thought. > > We already did - or rather, Dawn did (I just= helped compiling some > info)... the reference readers should know what I = am talking about. >;) It should be published on SWG sooner or later. Eum= no... being a member of that team, this is news to me. Or is that the Nerd= anel essay? > Mahtan's beard - is there any indication why he grew one th= is early? > C=C3=ADrdan is an old elf and most probably in his third circle= of life >(whatever that means) already, but as stated before, Mahtan is s= till > rather young. Well both can be born around the same time, but not= only age defined in what cycle you end up in... It's been a while since I = looked into that. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1101 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82101 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2007 21:42:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2007 21:42:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.211) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2007 21:42:44 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n32.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 21:42:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 21:42:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2007 21:42:39 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:42:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1073553329.20070704232218@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Mahtan and elves age/generation- correction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=l4EP0NpJ3UGB3tDnhC54UnMB9JlFHbTQ1LML72Re-JO61JQ4OfIVRrI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > S> I don't see Finw=EB & co. being the elves who woke up, > S> the= y are first born generation in vision of Arda. > > My vision, of course. I= wonder if there is any canon info on that - > if the three future kings o= f elves were born or woke up, not exactly > about C=EDrdan; the essay abou= t him I know. There are two canon versions regarding this and I think this= was slated to be covered in an essay that Dawn and I thought of to write..= .. ah the bliss of having more hours in a day. *sighs* Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1102 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7102 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2007 08:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2007 08:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.236) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2007 08:20:25 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n24.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2007 08:20:14 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2007 08:20:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2007 08:20:14 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 08:20:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Two MEFA announcements in one! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=jnWY1j8Is9o7KgGrKQORwUKTbV4FMyhwQhOUz3_oe0vkC_3u6N2MWXA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hey all, I have two announcements to make on behalf of the MEFA admin, bu= t I am going to combine them: Subjects: Approaching MEFA Deadlines for Nom= inators and Nominated Authors & Hard-to-Reach Authors Hey guys, This is a = friendly reminder: the last day to nominate a story for the 2007 awards is = JULY 15. You will not be able to nominate a story after this. If you are re= ading this and would like to nominate a story, you need to join the MEFAwar= ds Yahoo group. Do this at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/ or by e= mailing MEFAwards-subscribe(at)yahoogroups(dot)com. Please don't wait until= the last minute to join if you choose to do so; you will be sent log-in in= formation to our voting and nominating website within a day or two of joini= ng this Yahoo group. The last day for authors to approve their nomination i= s JULY 22. if you have had a story nominated you will need to finish the fo= rm and email your liaison by July 22 saying that you're okay with the nomin= ation. If you aren't sure who your liaison is, you may email mefasupport(at= )gmail(dot)com. Just so everyone is clear, the MEFA day is based on Greenwi= ch Mean Time. For the current "official" time go to http://www.mefawards.ne= t/MEFA2007/ and look at the "Page Served at:" line in the bottom-left corne= r. As I'm writing this, it is currently 5:41 in my time zone (U.S. eastern)= on July 4, and the MEFA's official time is "2007-07-04 21:41:40 GMT". and= : The Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards could use your help finding some auth= ors who have been nominated but that our volunteers are having a hard time = reaching. A full list of the authors we're trying to reach can be found at:= http://community.livejournal.com/mefas/22883.html#cutid1 Do you know any o= f these people? If so, please have them email mefasupport@gmail.com. Author= s still have until July 22 to get their stories ready to compete, so there'= s still time for these authors to participate if they'd like to. Marta -- = This morning I nudged Aeode and Vladazhael, LydiaB has been contacted as w= ell by Robinka. So I know those are covered. But if you know any of the oth= er authors... Any little nudge helps. Rhapsody. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1103 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15548 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2007 14:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2007 14:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.118) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2007 14:23:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 75752 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jul 2007 14:22:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: kQCyBl0VM1nb8liN3eQJS34Wh7de4UBdinbJJGuNtZx9v0Wf08Dm2Z5SD9UFJUBtpYI2enwi2PWUZsAHmiDJVZGOwKS6O84RMcurrgUTf4xc4Kmqh3eS Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:22:50 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 07:22:50 -0700 (PDT) To: SWG , Henneth Annun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-295528950-1183645370=:73766" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <708941.73766.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Seven in '07: Thursday 05/07/07 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=f42JyL7sHWiB-0V3KyYKj5dnIW49ySA9xlWqnmnRdoen9fF2a4CKixY X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-295528950-1183645370=:73766 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth. Today's character is Curufin. Said to be like his father in mood, appearance, and skills, it is no surprise that Curufin is portrayed as the most villainous of the brothers. But he wasn't always that way, and his history reveals a character for whom the epithet "the crafty" did not necessarily deserve the negative connotation that it would come to receive. From friend to traitor, father to kinslayer, Curufin exemplifies the tragic hold of the Silmarils on the lives of their pursuers. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/curufin.php We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG! May the muses smile upon you, SWG Moderators Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php ~T�rion --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. --0-295528950-1183645370=:73766 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth.
 
Today's character is Curufin. Said to be like his father in mood, appearance, and skills, it is no surprise that Curufin is portrayed as the most villainous of the brothers. But he wasn't always that way, and his history reveals a character for whom the epithet "the crafty" did not necessarily deserve the negative connotation that it would come to receive. From friend to traitor, father to kinslayer, Curufin exemplifies the tragic hold of the Silmarils on the lives of their pursuers.
 
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/curufin.php
 
We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG!
 
May the muses smile upon you,
SWG Moderators
 
Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php


~T�rion

Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. --0-295528950-1183645370=:73766-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1104 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94197 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2007 14:57:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2007 14:57:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.122) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2007 14:57:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 40691 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jul 2007 14:56:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dpj0njwVM1mMAOqUwuAmDqkuJDWB9ajJedp.Zz7bH2gTfXk12c_bXSjX0B1l9vD0wVwlMx5.vUH30Ez82VHJNR2G4TwQemsAfzc6g97v4v297zSnL9dkPU3YOQ-- Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 07:56:54 PDT Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 07:56:54 -0700 (PDT) To: SWG , Henneth Annun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-942667368-1183733814=:38805" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <816020.38805.qm@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Seven in '07: Friday 06/07/07 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=FHWcH0A0voQPSwsBNiHXHtkMgPA_-_sR1eeP1GsGH_UNqlCsaPoEmmo X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-942667368-1183733814=:38805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth. Today's characters are Amrod and Amras. The twin sons of F�anor have always possessed a unique allure for fan-writers and -artists that seems to defy their relatively small role in the published Silmarillion. But a closer study of their history and the development of their characters reveals some intriguing twists and ideas that show the heavy price paid by the House of F�anor in pursuit of their quest. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/ambarussa.php We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG! May the muses smile upon you, SWG Moderators Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php ~T�rion --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. --0-942667368-1183733814=:38805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth.
 
Today's characters are Amrod and Amras. The twin sons of F�anor have always possessed a unique allure for fan-writers and -artists that seems to defy their relatively small role in the published Silmarillion. But a closer study of their history and the development of their characters reveals some intriguing twists and ideas that show the heavy price paid by the House of F�anor in pursuit of their quest.
 
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/ambarussa.php
 
We hope that you enjoy the works presented as part of Seven in '07. Other events centered on the House of F�anor will follow throughout the month of July, so stay tuned! And of course, if you feel so inspired, please feel free to share your creativity on SWG!
 
May the muses smile upon you,
SWG Moderators
 
Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php


~T�rion

Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. --0-942667368-1183733814=:38805-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1105 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11413 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2007 21:43:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2007 21:43:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.231) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2007 21:43:27 -0000 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i21so300497wra for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:43:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=svIxSWRgFjyL+yr5RZni+WU/YM5UDF6m/mI6LvTDz5wfJlwp29ir72oPClODqSeJKlq+aGR9lVJOWkID+1l1O63PzSV0pfhFPuJyLXPRaU2Rx8tHKPjfIlNS6w/49+20AwSI3XNURhDMq76DYxlTF5N+qYNWVOdjlAGFbx/hXKk= Received: by 10.90.29.18 with SMTP id c18mr834058agc.1183758205749; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.100.19 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 14:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 17:43:25 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_131875_28614854.1183758205732" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Seven in '07 Correction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=DdCRJ6NpwOyfNCwjuHiwHE_3xbS1ZsURI5nPpDtoFsZipQYoQhuL X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_131875_28614854.1183758205732-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1106 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13438 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2007 21:53:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2007 21:53:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2007 21:53:57 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BFFF58030 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:53:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:53:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:53:45 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <82938190.20070706235345@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Seven in '07 Correction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=SuCQwg1FJB0Biv8q5BxlGNX_YuELy_aJaGmRJ2rW6fvm-L8Vp0E X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> Apologies to Sirielle, especially since I recall begging her DF> specifically to use this piece! Oh Dawn, thank you for the fix, but no apologies were necessary! I just was sure it got lost in e-mails, since I've forgotten to attach it the first time ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1107 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45481 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2007 22:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2007 22:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.224) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2007 22:04:47 -0000 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h29so369213wxd for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:04:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=jL+ts6KIHi9okKVxyTS3ZQPpwusRO6CAsmh2jU3v3a8XMCl7zFyp/kEpJLtCtgMI12OSEUHeS3zeDN5zboXG8zxhMojXfsaOki+t5V1LdBH3dimqI7kt/GwcsupdUd7fEXhKs7LO2qV2efrYKky82KgHsnFfrU+NtERpwT8ptns= Received: by 10.90.66.9 with SMTP id o9mr859324aga.1183759487152; Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.100.19 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 18:04:47 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <82938190.20070706235345@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_132131_24617668.1183759487128" References: <82938190.20070706235345@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Seven in '07 Correction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=DPERyIVdzJJrNm2npo_HmzHWJ4VhD33O99p_NmPXi-o_OF2kikqt X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_132131_24617668.1183759487128-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1108 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64880 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2007 15:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2007 15:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.124) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2007 15:46:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 20132 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jul 2007 15:46:13 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: myUm3IYVM1mMaGeC3DrX59Xc_kyeU6rG.SXXi86MNcOaUaYyFBaQvYJuIFuTyELSsArXlwuSsG3gtxUJDuE6tVYRmtTmuzf0FM7AkLUVphI9gMl_58DivmUM1g-- Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 08:46:13 PDT Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 08:46:13 -0700 (PDT) To: Henneth Annun , SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1539744391-1183823173=:20041" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <604437.20041.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Seven in '07: Saturday 07/07/07 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=ryjWC6nH5KzwO8a7eTOz2kl_ZSo-kLdtA6SKVI8oRT9qtHNMngt_XbI X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1539744391-1183823173=:20041 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth. Today's character is F�anor. Called "the greatest of the Noldor," F�anor is subject to a strong love-hate dichotomy among the fans of J.R.R. Tolkien's works. Yet no matter what one's opinion about him as an individual and grievous as were his deeds, without F�anor, the events of the Third Age that freed the people of Middle-earth from thralldom would not have been possible. F�anor stands as a shining example of a fall from light to darkness but also--as said in Ainulindal�--how even the darkest deeds eventually bring good returns. It is in recognition of this, in recognition of the wisdom, creativity, and joy that studying the House of F�anor has brought to hundreds of authors and artists, that we honor him this month. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/feanor.php That concludes our first week's events for Seven in '07! Many thanks to those who have followed along and, of course, to the many talented contributors who helped put the project together. With more than three weeks still left in July, we look forward to more F�anorian-inspired fun and creativity, so stay tuned! May the muses smile upon you, SWG Moderators Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php ~T�rion --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. --0-1539744391-1183823173=:20041 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
For the month of July, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has decided to honor the House of F�anor, especially the inspiration these characters provide to the Tolkien fan community. For each day during the first week of July, we will unveil a new character. Alongside a brief biography and discussion of that character, we present the words and images fans have created to illustrate the character's history and impact on the world of Middle-earth.
 
Today's character is F�anor. Called "the greatest of the Noldor," F�anor is subject to a strong love-hate dichotomy among the fans of J.R.R. Tolkien's works. Yet no matter what one's opinion about him as an individual and grievous as were his deeds, without F�anor, the events of the Third Age that freed the people of Middle-earth from thralldom would not have been possible. F�anor stands as a shining example of a fall from light to darkness but also--as said in Ainulindal�--how even the darkest deeds eventually bring good returns.
 
It is in recognition of this, in recognition of the wisdom, creativity, and joy that studying the House of F�anor has brought to hundreds of authors and artists, that we honor him this month.
 
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/feanor.php
 
That concludes our first week's events for Seven in '07! Many thanks to those who have followed along and, of course, to the many talented contributors who helped put the project together. With more than three weeks still left in July, we look forward to more F�anorian-inspired fun and creativity, so stay tuned!
 
May the muses smile upon you,
SWG Moderators
 
Seven in '07 Homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php


~T�rion

TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. --0-1539744391-1183823173=:20041-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1109 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1467 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2007 09:53:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2007 09:53:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2007 09:53:08 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99756748099 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:47:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:47:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:47:31 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1013460010.20070708114731@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <82938190.20070706235345@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Seven in '07 page needs more corrections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=GrnS8Op8UIpDzpvEY6g5FXZME2Lal43fER6qOP82CoTg47tDfHE X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai SWG, Maybe it's a false impression, but... It looks like folks don't know that they should click on character's name to get to this character's bio O_o I noticed that some people who know Internet well haven't seen what is attached on bios! I haven't asked them, but judging on comments all they know is only 7in7 front page. What I suggest is to add something like 'check XXX bio' or 'learn more about M' - put in better words - so visitors outside SWG will click it to read and see all the work you've done for the project. In fact the sentence below suggests that there is character's name in bold (maniacs like me will click it right away, others not),a short bio of the character and the link to all the stories about him. Nothing more. I don't say every visitor just saw the main page and browsed away, but it looks like some people do it. Pity. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1110 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76586 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2007 14:40:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2007 14:40:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2007 14:40:16 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2007 14:39:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2007 14:39:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2007 14:39:42 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:39:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1013460010.20070708114731@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Seven in '07 page needs more corrections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=iXVRkk45We_sEZd-_Kfk-frujKsN8prwzzBSy01rGqKgpou35GR4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle w= rote: > > Maybe it's a false impression, but... It looks like folks don't = know that they should click on character's name to get to this character's= > bio O_o *facepalmgrowl* That's the sound of a frustrated webmaster, i= f you could not tell. ;) It is possible to access the bios by clicking th= e name or the image associated with each. I figured that this would be sel= f- explanatory/obvious, but it seems I may be mistaken in this. I'll try t= o get online to add clearer links tonight. (I'm at work now and can't acce= ss our webhost.) In the meanwhile, if anyone stumbles upon nonplussed folk= s who think that I spent three weeks and ripped out most of my hair to put= together one measly page, I'd be much obliged if you'd enlighten them. :)= All the best, Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1111 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75691 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2007 16:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2007 16:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2007 16:49:14 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.ced.133ca9fc (39954) for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:48:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:48:54 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_ced.133ca9fc.33c3c0f6_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07 page needs more corrections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=O3D-1l_7814UZHFm-gHVoNkaKK4iwhtXWmpk0xCSlMvIYdBtB0NC X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun --part1_ced.133ca9fc.33c3c0f6_boundary Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="part1_ced.133ca9fc.33c3c0f6_rel_boundary" --part1_ced.133ca9fc.33c3c0f6_rel_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="ced.133ca9fc_alt_bound" --ced.133ca9fc_alt_bound Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congratulations on the move and the web pages are unbelievably pretty and entertaining! Everyone told me that! I've gotten so much positive feedback. People who never looked at the site before... So that is good. Personally, I think it looks awesome and turned out really well. Definitely worth every bit of the effort you put into it and utterly amazing how quickly you put it together. I think most people have figured out to click on the names. But explicit is always good when it comes to something like that. There are a couple of typos in the Feanor piece and one font error. Not a huge big deal, but let me know if you even do get around to having time to do a little bit of cleanup and I will give you more explicit details. Let me know what you want me to do for the next bio piece. I will get the hang of doing them better.... Can't resist. My new grandson. Casting for the grand film version of the Silmarillion: Don't you think he looks a little bit like Fingon? Actually, he could pass as Curufin (or he could even be Macalaure), but I prefer to think he does look like Fingon. Love-- Oshun ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --ced.133ca9fc_alt_bound Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = <= /HEAD> Congratulations on the move and the web pages are unbelievably pretty an= d entertaining! Everyone told me that!
 
I've g= otten so much positive feedback. People who never looked at the site befor= e... So that is good. Personally, I think it looks awesome and turned out = really well. Definitely worth every bit of the effort you put into it and = utterly amazing how quickly you put it together. I think most people have = figured out to click on the names. But explicit is always good when it come= s to something like that.
 
There are a c= ouple of typos in the Feanor piece and one font error. Not a huge big deal= , but let me know if you even do get around to having time to do a little = bit of cleanup and I will give you more explicit details.
 =
Let me know what you want me to do for the next bio piece. I wi= ll get the hang of doing them better....
 
Can't resist. My new grandson. Casting for the = grand film version of the Silmarillion: Don't you think he looks a little = bit like Fingon? Actually, he could pass as Curufin (or he could even be M= acalaure), but I prefer to think he does look like Fingon.
&nbs= p;
Love--
Oshun
 
 


See what's free at= AOL.com.
--ced.133ca9fc_alt_bound-- --part1_ced.133ca9fc.33c3c0f6_rel_boundary-- --part1_ced.133ca9fc.33c3c0f6_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1112 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98884 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2007 18:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2007 18:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2007 18:02:43 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD365800C for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:02:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:02:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:02:18 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1223543206.20070709200218@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <1013460010.20070708114731@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07 page needs more corrections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=7uH3E29T4EQtEBErJttQQZNDV3yTXT0TgHZL_N87dE58U_gnGKg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> *facepalmgrowl* That's the sound of a frustrated webmaster, if you DF> could not tell. ;) XD DF> It is possible to access the bios by clicking the name or the image DF> associated with each. I figured that this would be self- DF> explanatory/obvious, but it seems I may be mistaken in this. It was obvious to me, should be obvious to anyone,but as I said some people learn to browse web and if they don't see an explicit text link, they will not guess. Minority, but may happen. DF> In the meanwhile, if anyone stumbles upon DF> nonplussed folks who think that I spent three weeks and ripped out DF> most of my hair to put together one measly page, I'd be much obliged DF> if you'd enlighten them. :) Done, just in case ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1113 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49081 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2007 18:13:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2007 18:13:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2007 18:13:30 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5594B580A4 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:59:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:59:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:59:23 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <3671675.20070709195923@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07 page needs more corrections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=-1jFneNzqcBxEhOqP0W1LNmqW0WpBVhQ9y0-vksX1TZ7_Tg4Ru4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> Can't resist. My new grandson. Casting for the grand film hac> version of the Silmarillion: Don't you think he looks a little hac> bit like Fingon? Actually, he could pass as Curufin (or he could hac> even be Macalaure), but I prefer to think he does look like hac> Fingon. Fantastic Findek�no, congratulations! :D I agree the 7in7 page looks great and the color scheme fits well, I really like it! I also think that folks will click - I will always check what's hidden under a link XD But there may be some who think that's all. Like people who don't scroll page down etc. Not many but still people who are not used to Internet start surfing it :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1114 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93088 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2007 00:10:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2007 00:10:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.180) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2007 00:10:55 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id d32so2033480pye for ; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:10:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=hogYxUJq+h4QwJ56/cGgV9EDfoNlWaOL1HefjR8J6lvhE6PABMN7e4ZwvpxvWGYPUkKw2rDjbgAplBlwHN3pwfOPAW4RGb47M5VIHyWXLDHlCWsSoQk6Hzxhgz0594nTJJierjohVbVQQjLrBqswB4+wS80iTQTgW+J3+NcgHvE= Received: by 10.35.10.13 with SMTP id n13mr7502517pyi.1184026228899; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.89.12 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:10:28 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_114082_3652715.1184026228861" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07 page needs more corrections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=qgOP7SJOHw6nG9AQ19CMNdZaMVmv6lcnHrR1C0MfXobSUXd8u31m X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_114082_3652715.1184026228861-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1115 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85842 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2007 13:55:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2007 13:55:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.244) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2007 13:55:48 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n27.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2007 13:55:04 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2007 13:55:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2007 13:55:04 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:55:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Seven in '07 page needs more corrections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=DbEol3RqEOx6nOuZNcFfdI9Mcm_NVgRKGjnKeuqTMyg5t77irJ9YavI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > Can't resist. My new grandson. Casting for the grand film version = > of the Silmarillion: Don't you think he looks a little bit like > Fing= on? Actually, he could pass as Curufin (or he could even be > Macalaure),= but I prefer to think he does look like Fingon. It took me a moment what= you were referring too, those who read from the site (and are on no-mail),= cannot see the picture... just fyi. But congrats nonetheless! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1116 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34716 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2007 14:21:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2007 14:21:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2007 14:21:25 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c95.14571c0f (30737) for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:16:34 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184076994" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: YES X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07 page needs more corrections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=eyV8AzwKnw_T7hc4RNAz98vCQh-eWdBJvCYrHu0rYWUoTdixLT7a X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184076994 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It took me a moment what you were referring too, those who read from the site (and are on no-mail), cannot see the picture... just fyi. But congrats nonetheless! Whoops! Thanks, Rhapsody. I also thought I was replying to Dawn personally. Just a little sleep deprived. But no matter. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1184076994 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
It took me a moment what you were referring too, those who read from
t= he site (and are on no-mail), cannot see the picture... just fyi. But
c= ongrats nonetheless!

Whoo= ps! Thanks, Rhapsody. I also thought I was replying to Dawn personally. Ju= st a little sleep deprived. But no matter. 


See what's free at AOL.com.
= -------------------------------1184076994-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1117 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25064 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2007 20:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2007 20:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.115) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2007 20:22:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 17056 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2007 20:22:33 -0000 Received: from m113p007.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.182.7]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub84.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Jul 2007 20:22:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <4693EA90.00000B.03160@MARINA> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:22:40 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_SLCZCJD0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: question.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=ljqiK-jK0Ev0iuqXJlfVrTmFkTCDdApyZ0qiN4pJsTddnNjkJ2UA X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_SLCZCJD0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I got today a question that bugs me since weeks and keeps me sleepless at n= ight. When and where (sources) did Gil Galad appear the first time in the books? Where was he raised? Who were his parents ( I got so many different options already=3D When exactly did he take the crown? Has anyone a biography, a very, very good one and not the the regular five= lines of online knowledge about him? I would be so happy if someone could help me with that! Thank you so much MArina --------------Boundary-00=_SLCZCJD0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
I got today a question that bugs me since weeks and k= eeps me sleepless at night.
 
 
    =
  1. When and where (sources) did Gil Galad appear the first time in the boo= ks?
  2. Where was he raised?
  3. Who were his parents ( I got so = many different options already=3D
  4. When exactly did he take the cro= wn?
  5. Has anyone a biography, a very, very good one and not the the = regular five lines of online knowledge about him?
I would be= so happy if someone could help me with that!
 
= Thank you so much
 
MArina
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_SLCZCJD0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1118 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20294 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2007 01:42:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2007 01:42:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.179) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2007 01:42:33 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so3094324pyb for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:42:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=gG8RG7lqeJpY26A/wnaABwKSUtCzBoKjDFdHcJTf2FCBCC11FGe0QrrHVJn8Dfl+XzIpf9L1hCOjl6GTEwdokeN3T4CBlWFsscRVVagUqpYKi8ezQDlPCYRHL2ipFxpRGFdcpSiHT9Xw8mFOG6FVGQ+aij1zVVPYe0ZGXRqxAi8= Received: by 10.35.75.15 with SMTP id c15mr9557478pyl.1184118152073; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.89.12 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:42:32 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_129782_19994447.1184118152055" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Seven in '07--Nerdanel and Celebrimbor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=43jnCjiKauCAw9RBOsOHVFj8wcEy6-rIg_cEeubC8eH_IXCTHqjg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_129782_19994447.1184118152055-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1119 Return-Path: X-Sender: spookystoy@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49006 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2007 20:55:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2007 20:55:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.213) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2007 20:55:38 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2007 20:55:17 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2007 20:55:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2007 20:55:17 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:55:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "spookystoy" Subject: question about the House of Feanor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2358968; y=--2Ka1NQBlxFoVp0x7QNUNJ4-5s_R5CG7X8d956bCzHcRd3riA X-Yahoo-Profile: spookystoy Hello! Does anyone know or recall if the peacock is at all associated with = the House of Feanor? As a symbol, or any relation at all? I could have sw= orn I read this somewhere but am beginning to doubt myself. Any info you h= ave to share would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1120 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7317 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2007 22:13:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2007 22:13:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.60) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2007 22:13:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2007 22:12:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2007 22:12:01 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:12:01 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: question about the House of Feanor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Eh86jLKj8i4HcZxgaf99T4oJ3eXgHy6J5Qq03_-PKviwqzg540qA X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "spookystoy" wrote: > > Hello! > Does anyone know or recall if the peacock is at all= associated with the > House of Feanor? As a symbol, or any relation at al= l? I could have > sworn I read this somewhere but am beginning to doubt my= self. > > Any info you have to share would be appreciated. Thanks in advan= ce! I've never seen anything to this effect, no. The only symbols I know o= f are the Star of Feanor and his heraldry: http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/artist/kelsey_bartiss.php#banner2 Though tomorrow, I can do a sea= rch of the word "peacock," if you like. Best regards, (the other) Dawn ;) = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1121 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46903 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2007 13:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2007 13:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2007 13:31:56 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u52so304311pyb for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:31:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=DU4WWo0n3oyb21pUsYHECLtNF4tmyhZV7aP+B2dCdaN7h1jTgKXk51G6H4MoM5jsLZWNYQ94TkaUmttokrBoC/kxPNcuIG/pfyp9EMicWdQpuPaLqUOSQwQk74vTbHMTwh/eH2jdd3Ho5lWta3WntfX78COeJ5kb8PUcu7x8MM4= Received: by 10.35.128.1 with SMTP id f1mr1067064pyn.1184246504648; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.89.12 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:21:44 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4693EA90.00000B.03160@MARINA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_17566_31955739.1184246504490" References: <4693EA90.00000B.03160@MARINA> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] question.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ViaRPdjNOq_OKXETRc4Am276GWG7dkReKXDDxG8RUy_Q4WAKOEZw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_17566_31955739.1184246504490-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1122 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54273 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2007 14:21:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2007 14:21:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2007 14:21:07 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.bff.1b41452f (30738) for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:14:24 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184249664" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=PT9S2R_Vn9ENFS-VBCeY3xAAyw4LYGQIyyrhTE9VU8KBtPQlo-T4 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184249664 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So happy to see Dawn put up her cites. I looked up the references on this question couple of months ago, but did not keep them in a readily accessible form. I was too overwwhelmed with family stuff the last couple of days to re-do the research. I completely agree with Dawn's breakdown if my memory serves me right. I also had a Christopher Tolkien footnote since lost which said that it was a mistake to have included the Fingon version in the Silmarillion as he later found more current material or something like that. I think this is, however, one bit of history that one can pretty much write as one wishes--there is no high-canon version. (Of course, I then proceeded to weave into my backstory of the Maedhros/Fingon story arc I am working on right now the least likely scenario, which is that I chose to work with the idea that Fingon was his father--just for fun and to give a little additional plot twist to my whole saga). Also, for more fun see Erunyauve's essay "Who is This Gil-Galad of Whom You Speak?": _http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter.cfm?stid=6721_ (http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter.cfm?stid=6721) For additional silliness I was just looking for the link to a Live Journal entry by Claudio which consisted of a poll on who people think Gil-Galad's daddy should be, which included a lot of discussion on the subject. I can't find it easily but if I do find it I will throw it up, because there were a number of interesting comments. ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1184249664 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
So happy to see D= awn put up her cites. I looked up the references on this questio= n couple of months ago, but did not keep them in a readily acces= sible form. I was too overwwhelmed with family stuff the last couple of da= ys to re-do the research. I completely agree with Dawn's breakdown if my m= emory serves me right.
 
I also had a Christophe= r Tolkien footnote since lost which said that it was a mistake to have inc= luded the Fingon version in the Silmarillion as he later found more curren= t material or something like that.
 
I think th= is is, however, one bit of history that one can pretty much write as one w= ishes--there is no high-canon version. (Of course, I then proceeded to wea= ve into my backstory of the Maedhros/Fingon story arc I am working on right= now the least likely scenario, which is that I chose to work with the ide= a that Fingon was his father--just for fun and to give a little additional= plot twist to my whole saga).
 
Also, for= more fun see Erunyauve's essay "Who is This Gil-Galad of Whom You Speak?"= :  http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter.cfm?stid=3D6721
 
For additional silliness I was just looking for= the link to a Live Journal entry by Claudio which consisted of a poll on = who people think Gil-Galad's daddy should be, which included a l= ot of discussion on the subject. I can't find it easily but if I do find i= t I will throw it up, because there were a number of interesting comments.=



Get a sneak peak of the= all-new AOL.com.
= -------------------------------1184249664-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1123 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19032 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2007 15:15:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2007 15:15:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.119) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2007 15:15:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 8647 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2007 15:14:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) ([172.18.5.229]) (envelope-sender ) by fallback01.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 12 Jul 2007 15:14:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 7715 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2007 15:09:15 -0000 Received: from m127p004.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.183.196]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub76.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 12 Jul 2007 15:09:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <46964422.000001.03028@MARINA> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:09:22 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_MFN2QL80000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] question.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=5hI3mr8O0PJ0HksclCGikRzzHJ30jpuzwiZxuUE-ZUv8SmZW4RhG X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_MFN2QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, wonderful!!! Thank you so much! You helped me very, very much. I am not a big fan of GG= but I need all that you gave me, because I want the ficlet to sound more a= uthentic :) Thank you thank you thank you!!!! Marina=20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Dawn Felagund Date: 07/12/07 15:32:00 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] question.... =20 Marina wrote: I got today a question that bugs me since weeks and keeps me sleepless at = night. When and where (sources) did Gil Galad appear the first time in the books?= =20 Where was he raised?=20 Who were his parents ( I got so many different options already=3D=20 When exactly did he take the crown?=20 Has anyone a biography, a very, very good one and not the the regular five= lines of online knowledge about him? =20 --- =20 I did a name search yesterday for "Gil-galad" in LotR, The Silmarillion, a= nd all of the HoMe. I am missing Unfinished Tales because I don't have that= digital file at work, but I will try to do a similar search at home and up= date as necessary. :)=20 =20 I collected all of the quotes here, eliminating those that repeated from s= ource to source (the first appearance of a particular passage is the one th= at I kept): =20 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/files/Research/ =20 Please note that you have to be logged in to Yahoo! for this link to work. =20 Quick answers to your questions. :) The notes on which the answers are bas= ed are in the document linked above. =20 1. Gil-galad's first appearance is in Volume 5 of the HoMe in "The Early H= istory of the Legend: The Second Version of the Fall of Numenor." This volu= me represents the last of JRRT's work on the early mythology of Arda before= LotR was written, so this is the material on which the "background" presen= ted in LotR was based. According to the Preface, this material was complete= d by 1938.=20 =20 2. According to The Silmarillion, he was born in Hithlum and sent to the H= avens by Fingon following Fingolfin's death. So far as I know, however, the= re is no information about how long G-g lived in Hithlum except that he is = called Fingon's "young son" when he is sent to the Havens.=20 =20 In HoMe11, G-g is Felagund's son; he is raised in Nargothrond and sent awa= y to Eglorest. Later, it is changed a bit: He is taken by his mother from N= argothrond to the Havens. =20 The final word--where G-g is the son of Orodreth who is the nephew of Fela= gund--in HoMe12 "The Shibboleth of Feanor" says that Orodreth escaped when = his father Angrod was slain. Had G-g yet been born? I don't know this; this= information might not even be available. If he was, then he was born in Do= rthonion, fled with his parents to Nargothrond, and there "escaped and even= tually came to Sirion's Mouth and was King of the Noldor there." If not, th= en he was born in Nargothrond and then escaped, coming eventually to Sirion= 's Mouth.=20 =20 3. Ai, the proverbial can of worms. :) He started as a descendent of Feano= r in HoMe5, though his exact lineage is not known here. He then became a so= n of Felagund, but when JRRT decided that Felagund had no wife, he shifted = G-g down a generation and made him the son of Orodreth, whose father was Fe= lagund's brother Angrod. Apparently, his brief stint as a son of Fingon was= something of a passing fancy that made it into The Silmarillion ... at lea= st, this is my impression from my research yesterday.=20 =20 As for his mother, when G-g was a son of Felagund, she was a woman called = Meril" from Eglorest (HoMe11). Later in the same volume, she is mentioned = but not named (a space is left for her name). When he becomes a son of Orod= reth, his mother is not named but is a "Sindarin lady of the north" (HoMe12= ).=20 =20 4. According to The Silmarillion, G-g was named king after Turgon's death = and the destruction of Gondolin. =20 5. Hopefully, the notes will help somewhat with this; they're not organize= d into a single narrative, but they do show the "book facts" about him and = also the evolution of his character in the HoMe. =20 Hope this helps a bit! All the best, Dawn =20 --------------Boundary-00=_MFN2QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh, wonderful!!!
 
Thank you so much! You helped me very, very much. I am not a bi= g fan of GG but I need all that you gave me, because I want the ficlet= to sound more authentic :)
 
Thank you thank yo= u thank you!!!!
 
Marina 
 =
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 07/12/07 15:32:00
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriters= Guild] question....
 

=

Marina wrote:
I got today a question that bugs me since wee= ks and keeps me sleepless at night.
  1. When and where (sources)= did Gil Galad appear the first time in the books?
  2. Where was he raised= ?
  3. Who were his parents ( I got so many different options already=3D <= LI>When exactly did he take the crown?
  4. Has anyone a biography, a very,= very good one and not the the regular five lines of online knowledge about= him?
 
---
 
I d= id a name search yesterday for "Gil-galad" in LotR, The Silmarillion, and a= ll of the HoMe. I am missing Unfinished Tales because I don't have that dig= ital file at work, but I will try to do a similar search at home and update= as necessary. :)
 
I collected all of the quot= es here, eliminating those that repeated from source to source (the first a= ppearance of a particular passage is the one that I kept):
 = ;
 
Pleas= e note that you have to be logged in to Yahoo! for this link to work.
=
 
Quick answers to your questions. :) The notes on wh= ich the answers are based are in the document linked above.
&nbs= p;
1. Gil-galad's first appearance is in Volume 5 of the HoMe in "The Early History of the Legend: The Second= Version of the Fall of Numenor." This volume represents the last of JRRT's= work on the early mythology of Arda before LotR was written, so this is th= e material on which the "background" presented in LotR was based. According= to the Preface, this material was completed by 1938.
&n= bsp;
2. According to The Silmarillion, he was born in Hithlum an= d sent to the Havens by Fingon following Fingolfin's death. So far as I kno= w, however, there is no information about how long G-g lived in Hithlum exc= ept that he is called Fingon's "young son" when he is sent to the Havens. <= /DIV>
 
In HoMe11, G-g is Felagund's son; he is raised= in Nargothrond and sent away to Eglorest. Later, it is changed a bit: He i= s taken by his mother from Nargothrond to the Havens.
 
The final word--where G-g is the son of Orodreth who is the nephew = of Felagund--in HoMe12 "The Shibboleth of Feanor" says that Orodreth e= scaped when his father Angrod was slain. Had G-g yet been born? I don't kno= w this; this information might not even be available. If he was, then he wa= s born in Dorthonion, fled with his parents to Nargothrond, and there "esca= ped and eventually came to Sirion's Mouth and was King of the Noldor there.= " If not, then he was born in Nargothrond and then escaped, coming eventual= ly to Sirion's Mouth.
 
3. Ai, the proverbial c= an of worms. :) He started as a descendent of Feanor in HoMe5, though his e= xact lineage is not known here. He then became a son of Felagund, but when = JRRT decided that Felagund had no wife, he shifted G-g down a generation an= d made him the son of Orodreth, whose father was Felagund's brother Angrod.= Apparently, his brief stint as a son of Fingon was something of a passing = fancy that made it into The Silmarillion ... at least, this is my impressio= n from my research yesterday.
 
As for his moth= er, when G-g was a son of Felagund, she was a woman called "Meril" from Egl= orest (HoMe11). Later in the same volume, she is mentioned but not named (a= space is left for her name). When he becomes a son of Orodreth, his mother= is not named but is a "Sindarin lady of the north" (HoMe12).
&= nbsp;
4. According to The Silmarillion, G-g was named king after= Turgon's death and the destruction of Gondolin.
 
5. Hopefully, the notes will help somewhat with this; they're not organi= zed into a single narrative, but they do show the "book facts" about him an= d also the evolution of his character in the HoMe.
 
=
Hope this helps a bit! All the best,
Dawn

 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_MFN2QL80000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1124 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87499 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2007 15:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2007 15:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.177) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2007 15:22:21 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u52so332842pyb for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:22:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ghyZh4pQ7bJJzJr38SOygIBRwD7ANGzMIFJkfNy8gcvRi/bqbjyBVqBLkb/F8YaaP/zscqQCMArvzFcpXiM+Zcnnd9oRNxiLFhgUnH8fqS5I398QFqmMmWR7MODuUbcBelAQdp/5le0EocTAtCPgEHBa2KLZaPq4hQEE4CwBulI= Received: by 10.35.86.12 with SMTP id o12mr1280620pyl.1184253740229; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.89.12 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:22:20 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <46964422.000001.03028@MARINA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19219_15388807.1184253740187" References: <46964422.000001.03028@MARINA> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] question.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=kDc1LVWdBr8RES11TAOPQx-NIhIZ85pJaxkdHea2obb541bYHRRv X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_19219_15388807.1184253740187-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1125 Return-Path: X-Sender: spookystoy@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82422 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 04:45:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 04:45:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.112) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 04:45:05 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 04:45:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 04:45:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 04:45:05 -0000 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:45:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "spookystoy" Subject: Re: question about the House of Feanor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2358968; y=46q9f2D-crLMtpIWVQIB3vr6rlXSv27uMl00NRnumKdYhGIqLQ X-Yahoo-Profile: spookystoy Thank you, Dawn. If that search is relatively easy, then I would appreciat= e your taking a look. Should I sign off as Dawn2 or Dawn (not that one)? = ;) Dawn2 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund= " wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup= s.com, "spookystoy" > wrote: > > > > Hello! > > Does anyone k= now or recall if the peacock is at all associated with the > > House of F= eanor? As a symbol, or any relation at all? I could have > > sworn I read= this somewhere but am beginning to doubt myself. > > > > Any info you hav= e to share would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! > > I've never seen a= nything to this effect, no. The only symbols I know > of are the Star of Fe= anor and his heraldry: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/artist= /kelsey_bartiss.php#bann er2 > > Though tomorrow, I can do a search of the= word "peacock," if you like. > > Best regards, > (the other) Dawn ;) > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1126 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41070 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 08:52:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 08:52:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.122) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 08:52:20 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 08:51:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 08:51:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 08:51:14 -0000 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:51:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <46964422.000001.03028@MARINA> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: question.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=wtxR0dYneg23OuQPoJFA4sll1DeacJBsY5mg4c5VkNGBSroDD0HMqrM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "MARINA" wr= ote: Hi Marina, sorry to be so late, but I also was digging through the b= ooks, but since Dawn checked HOME... I'd like to add that in Children of H= =FArin, Gil-galad is not listed as Orodreth's son, but as of Fingon's. Find= uilas however is listed as Orodreth's daughter... Since this is a seperate = book and Christopher went over his notes again it gives me that strong feli= ng Fingon was married someday and produced off spring. I have some theories= about that. Anyway.... let me cover Unfinished Tales for you: >From the UT= 14 Aeglos, "snowthom", is said to have been like furze (gorse), but large= r, and with white flowers. Aeglos was also the name of the spear of Gil-gal= ad. Seregon, "blood of stone", was a plant of the kind called in English "s= tonecrop"; it had flowers of a deep red. >From the notes Narn I H=EEn H=FA= rin, page 190 Then Meneldur broke the seal and read:Ereinion Gil-galad son= of Fingon to Tar-Meneldur of the line of E=E4rendil, greeting: the Valar k= eep you and may no shadow fall upon the Isle of Kings. Long I have owed you= thanks, for you have so many times sent to me your son Anardil Aldarion: t= he greatest Elf-friend that now is among Men, as I deem. At this time I ask= your pardon, if I have detained him overlong in my service; for I had grea= t need of the knowledge of Men and their tongues which he alone possesses. = He has dared many perils to bring me counsel. Of my need he will speak to y= ou; yet he does not guess how great it is, being young and full of hope. Th= erefore I write this for the eyes of the King of N=FAmen=F3r=EB only.A new = shadow arises in the East. It is no tyranny of evil Men, as your son believ= es; but a servant of Morgoth is stirring, and evil things wake again. Each = year it gains in strength, for most Men are ripe to its purpose. Not far of= f is the day, I judge, when it will become too great for the Eldar unaided = to withstand. Therefore, whenever I behold a tall ship of the Kings of Men,= my heart is eased. And now I make bold to seek your help. If you have any = strength of Men to spare, lend it to me, I beg.Your son will report to you,= if you will, all our reasons. But in fine it is his counsel (and that is e= ver wise) that when assault comes, as it surely will, we should seek to hol= d the Westlands, where still the Eldar dwell, and Men of your race, whose h= earts are not yet darkened. At the least we must defend Eriador about the l= ong rivers west of the mountains that we name Hithaeglir: our chief defence= . But in that mountain-wall there is a great gap southward in the land of C= alenardhon; and by that way inroad from the East must come. Already enmity = creeps along the coast towards it. It could be defended and assault hindere= d, did we hold some seat of power upon the nearer shore.So the Lord Aldario= n long has seen. At Vinylond=EB by the mouth of Gwathl=F3 he has long labou= red to establish such haven, secure against sea and land; but his mighty wo= rks have been in vain. He has great knowledge in such matters, for he has l= earned much of C=EDrdan, and he understands better than any the needs of yo= ur great ships. But he has never had men enough; whereas C=EDrdan has no wr= ights or masons to spare.The King will know his own needs; but if he will l= isten with favour to the Lord Aldarion, and support him as he may, then hop= e will be greater in the world. The memories of the First Age are dim, and = all things in Middle-earth grow colder. Let not the ancient friendship of E= ldar and Dunedain wane also.Behold! The darkness that is to come is filled = with hatred for us, but it hates you no less. The Great Sea will not be too= wide for its wings, if it is suffered to come to full growth.Manw=EB keep = you under the One, and send fair wind to your sails.Meneldur let the parchm= ent fall into his lap. >From the tale Aldarion & Erendis, page 256-257 24 = It is recorded that Ereinion was given the name Gil-galad "Star of Radiance= " "because his helm and mail, and his shield overlaid with silver and set w= ith a device of white stars, shone from afar like a star in sunlight or moo= nlight, and could be seen by Elvish eyes at a great distance if they stood = upon a height." >From the notes of tale Aldarion & Erendis, page 280 Gil-g= alad is mentioned a lot in the tale Aldarion & Erendis (which is logical be= cause Tal Aldarion was an advisor and friend of Gil-galad and C=EDrdan) and= The History of Galadriel and Celeborn, but I only looked at lineage things= ... but I thought let's mention it. "In addition, any of the Eldar might a= cquire an epess=EB ("after-name"), not necessarily given by their own kin, = a nickname -mostly given as a title of admiration or honour; and an epess= =EB might become the name generally used and recognised in later song and h= istory (as was the case, for instance, with Ereinion, always known by his e= pess=EB Gil-galad)." >From Appendix E The Names of Celeborn and Galadriel, = page 346 The index of UT says this: Gil-Galad 'Star of Radiance', the name= by which Ereinion son of Fingon was known. After the death of Turgon he be= came the last High King of the Noldor in Middle-earth, and remained in Lind= on after the end of the First Age; leader with Elendil of the Last Alliance= of Elves and Men and slain with him in combat with Sauron. I recall the = essay Oshun mentioned, but it isn't that complete. Now I am going to give = my hands some rest after this 'typing over frenzy' from my UT copy, which i= s the UK version published in 1998. I hope this helps and if you want me t= o do more checking and digging, drop me an e-mail. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1127 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85239 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 11:18:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 11:18:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.118) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 11:18:27 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 11:17:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 11:17:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 11:17:20 -0000 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:17:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Approaching MEFA Deadlines for Nominators and Nominated Authors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=rCXOr_mgZW1gvgvlisbgGNbeCa9kkCpJOPlP9ZQ16gqj7gYExVC8j-4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard On behalf of Marta (I am catching up with e-mail,eeps): Hey guys, This is= a friendly reminder: the last day to nominate a story for the 2007 awards = is JULY 15. You will not be able to nominate a story after this. If you ar= e reading this and would like to nominate a story, you need to join the MEF= Awards Yahoo group. Do this at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/ or = by emailing MEFAwards-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. Please don't wait until th= e last minute; you will be sent log-in information to our voting and nomina= ting website within a day or two of joining this Yahoo group. The last day= for authors to approve their nomination is JULY 22. if you have had a stor= y nominated you will need to finish the form and email your liaison saying = that you're okay with the nomination by July 22. If you aren't sure who you= r liaison is, you may emailmefasupport(at)gmail(dot)com. Just so everyone = is clear, the MEFA day is based on Greenwich MeanTime. For the current "off= icial" time go to http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2007/ and look at the "Page = Served at:"line in the bottom-left corner. As I'm writing this, it is curre= ntly 5:41 in my time zone (U.S. eastern) on July 4, and the MEFA's official= time is "2007-07-04 21:41:40 GMT". Marta -- Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1128 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93101 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 12:28:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 12:28:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.110) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 12:28:00 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 12:27:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 12:27:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 12:27:35 -0000 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:27:35 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Call for MEFA story banners! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=9_Z5CGHisMa055RIlHAu2chR7VpiPjG9ImdPt7cMykhEj5jmxT36PX8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, This another MEFA announcement that should get some special atten= tion: There is a call for banners for this year's run of the Middle-earth = fan fiction awards. If you are an artist and would like to help out, please= read the following announcement of Marta, main administrator of the Middle= -earth Fanfition Awards: ** Nautika asked me recently how to get involved= writing banners, and I thought some other people might be interested, too.= In previous years banner-making was competitive. Meaning that there was = a specific theme for first, second, and third place in every main category,= and that if more than one banner was made for any "theme" we had a poll to= select the "winning" banner. However, this year we decided to do things a = little differently. This year, we're doing things a little less structured= . You can make a banner about anything Tolkien-themed that you want to. Fir= st Age through Fourth, any race or character. Also, you can make "neutral" = banners, like with design elements but without specific pictures, or you ca= n use photos that aren't particularly fannish but connect with Tolkien's un= iverse somehow, like photos from the Hubble telescope or pictures of the be= ach. Be creative! Requirements are listed at http://mefawards.net/MEFA200= 7/index.php?page=3DFAQbanners. Banners do have to be certain sizes, and the= y need to have the phrases "2007" and either "MEFAs" or "Middle-earth Fanfi= ction Awards" somewhere on them. After the awards are over, winners can req= uest a banner and we will either add the category information for them or t= ell them how to add it themselves. If you'd like to submit a banner, do s= o by emailing it to banners@mefawards.net. ** Sirielle, when you read this= , can you let me know how I can post this as a news item at Deviant Art? I = am probably overlooking a button or link :) Thanks! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1129 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44083 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 14:40:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 14:40:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 14:40:22 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f31so815479pyh for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:40:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=F+qM/w5l34VW8p2jRsmq54baht6fVYmLkOCWn1jiZJQSKKScSGcmsMV4i7e/7ZBO0yWNk2CD7mEJ2V2Dij9cbEFTWstognbziWD7eeqO0yO0Wb0Mc74ECivVd7z16oZ6TrNtlkUOUx/rn6ICKomJ7BZyjMmkN27hUEVsgVywduk= Received: by 10.35.49.1 with SMTP id b1mr2714795pyk.1184337619534; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.88.8 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:40:19 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20430_28221363.1184337619438" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8Xbb0NRssu44TLRWCmEwTGPSXWqNg4UoXc-VD5oMqfnDi9vTNAWf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_20430_28221363.1184337619438-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1130 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68378 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 15:07:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 15:07:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 15:07:33 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f31so968175pyh for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:07:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=XImGUkUKZByjBABhYOQ/6q8PoNgymEu0svDpXbZYvEBu0QkzGI9eR+OV+mhO85X8kzfC/aeGpQwgAzVxc6qRUjX7weNeQza+wcBebi87n9Gw1BkFj2KN7m6S/fQQG3pGqQ2CHfMtav0UO6O66dBgFhdY/ZcLMEvADyUHI2k/ac0= Received: by 10.35.100.6 with SMTP id c6mr2769390pym.1184339253307; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.88.8 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:07:33 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20703_9444371.1184339253252" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: question about the House of Feanor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ZYcrGAS61EAvUJoa7qAsRJxXeUzRf9PqhI829nmzysXN9tSeeRmE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_20703_9444371.1184339253252-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1131 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49446 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 19:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 19:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 19:11:35 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.d3d.d356cfc (57293) for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:11:01 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184353861" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=1ADlo3K5i_GhYOK44SoiMfkad9Szkd-z9lyDFwVGhBz0FrhxUXHl X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184353861 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/13/2007 9:42:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: (And dreading Maedhros's reaction ...) I hope I can pull it off. I am pushing the envelope here a little. It is going to be Maedhros's idea. I wanted to make these guys smarter and more politically aware in this story. The majority of the ones I have read have painted one or the other of them as either political in a sinister and creepy way or somewhat clueless or didn't deal with the question of governance and/or influence at all. So, instead of the usual routine of having Fingolfin ranting about Fingon needing an heir, I am going to have the guys realize that and try to come up with a solution that they can live with... It ends up that it is much harder for Fingon to accept than Maedhros and he is one who needs the most reassurance. OK. I should follow your practice and stop. I have included more than enough spoilers in that paragraph. But I already posted an exploratory drabble about one element of it in the SWG archive. It was influenced by the upcoming birth of my new grandson (who I incidentally have decided looks like Fingon so far). (And now she is wondering if I have enough work to do...) ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1184353861 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/13/2007 9:42:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:
= =
In a messag= e dated 7/13/2007 9:42:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL= .com.
-------------------------------1184354007-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1133 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrapcat21@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67610 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 20:19:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 20:19:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.220) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 20:19:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 20:19:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 20:19:43 -0000 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:19:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "keiliss" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=238321209; y=zx3GiqbFaoubl4WrgKkvFN-fC70vRtu8LLdH7Pf8oZnR9Bo7bQ X-Yahoo-Profile: keiliss Question? If Gil-galad was Fingon's son, what gave Turgon the right to the = High Kingship? The Silm has him taking the crown after Fingon's death and b= ypassing the late king's small son because, apparently, he was 'too young' = to inherit. In most cultures Turgon would be deemed a usurper, and the act = illegal and a sure fire recipe for civil war. On top of that, Turgon then v= anished into Gondolin, effectively leaving the Noldor without an accessible= High King. The whole thing looks very 'unelven'. A comparative is 16th ce= ntury Scotland at the death of James V. Despite it being a rough and violen= t society, and despite a threat of war from England, the lords still swore = allegiance to his baby daughter. I hate to think they had more sense of 'ri= ghtness' than the elves of the First Age. The more convoluted, HoME-based = 'other way' at least fits the line of succession. Fingolfin to Fingon. Fing= on to Turgon. Then across to the other side of the family, to Finarfin's so= ns (all dead) and grandsons - or great-grandsons, depending on where you pl= ace Orodreth. I've tended to support it purely for its logic. However, I'd = love to see a Silm-based explanation that held water. Anyone? ~ Kei -- In= SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > > = In a message dated 7/13/2007 9:42:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, > DawnFela= gund@... writes: > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1134 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23082 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 20:48:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 20:48:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 20:48:16 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.d01.1417f368 (57293) for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:39:43 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184359183" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=N2MDCYdHJLtfzRhG1cTgeE1tRbFKuNxNV4oA6993vK-aw30KAWkI X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184359183 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kei--I have to agree with you and I have not resolved that problem to my satisfaction either. Fascinated as well to hear if any of the more canon-knowledgeable can contribute anything to this conudrum. For the sake of my own storyline I've decided for the moment to suspend my disbelief and decide that no one challenged Turgon, that at his death it was generally assumed that the line of succession would shift back to Fingon's heir. I also assumed that those who would have the greatest interest in arguing about succession would have been Feanor's sons and, as long as Maedhros was in control as head of the House of Feanor that he would have stood by his renunciation of any rights of succession. But that also raises problems for my personal plot line. Turgon's assumption of kingship might have rankled with Maedhros since he regarded Fingon as his closet ally while there was no love lost between him and Turgon at that point. I would argue, however, that Turgon would have trusted Maedhros above his brothers. I can write away my personal plot problem outside of and around canon by insisting that Fingon had made some agreement that Turgon would succeed him as until his minor son reached his majority. That solves my problem as a writer, but does not solve the problem of what might have been in Tolkien's head. ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1184359183 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Kei--I have to ag= ree with you and I have not resolved that problem to my satisfaction eithe= r. Fascinated as well to hear if any of the more canon-knowledgeable can c= ontribute anything to this conudrum.
 
For the = sake of my own storyline I've decided for the moment to suspend my disbeli= ef and decide that no one challenged Turgon, that at his death it was gene= rally assumed that the line of succession would shift back to Fingon's heir= . I also assumed that those who would have the greatest interest in a= rguing about succession would have been Feanor's sons and, as long as Maed= hros was in control as head of the House of Feanor that he would have stoo= d by his renunciation of any rights of succession. But that also raises&nb= sp;problems for my personal plot line. Turgon's assumption of ki= ngship might have rankled with Maedhros since he regarded Fingon as h= is closet ally while there was no love lost between him and Turgon at= that point. I would argue, however, that Turgon would have trusted M= aedhros above his brothers. I can write away my personal plot problem outs= ide of and around canon by insisting that Fingon had made some agreement t= hat Turgon would succeed him as until his minor son reached his = majority. That solves my problem as a writer, but does not solve the probl= em of what might have been in Tolkien's head.



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-------------------------------1184359183-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1135 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43186 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 22:04:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 22:04:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.111) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 22:04:38 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 22:03:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 22:03:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 22:03:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:03:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4693EA90.00000B.03160@MARINA> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: GilGalad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=uL86LqmEW1h_gTLR-bH1igX78S3YERKfk3VQpNb_-8-sSNHK_6a9RjWE X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses I've always preferred Fingon as father because I like this: "Great was th= e lamentation in Hithlum when the fall of Fingolfin became known, and Fing= on in sorrow took the lordship of the house of Fingolfin and the kingdom o= f the Noldor; but his young son Ereinion (who was after named Gil-galad) h= e sent to the Havens." (Chapter 18) (thanks for the digital book) I think= the fact that the king himself wants to get his son to a safer place out = of harm's way, is very telling about the feelings of loss and hopelessness= after the Dagor Bragollach. Angelica From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1136 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43134 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 22:10:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 22:10:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 22:10:02 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c02.1a71fa60 (57293) for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:08:53 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184364533" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: GilGalad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=GUj7MPsd97cUXDZBiKZXVYfFAE-HPAmQ9q8pfFVJBYY__Bgqa1N- X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184364533 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree, Angelica. Strong lines. ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1184364533 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I agree, Angelica= . Strong lines.



Get a sn= eak peak of the all-new AOL.com.
-------------------------------1184364533-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1137 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41237 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 23:36:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 23:36:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.128) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 23:36:57 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 23:36:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 23:36:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2007 23:36:43 -0000 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 23:36:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Hmj4jb7IdOTB9rN6MhE_rlxomAlg9OprkplFUh3qAV_Czp9UT-uw8PQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "keiliss" = wrote: > > Question? If Gil-galad was Fingon's son, what gave Turgon the r= ight > to the High Kingship? The Silm has him taking the crown after > Fin= gon's death and bypassing the late king's small son because, > apparently,= he was 'too young' to inherit. In most cultures Turgon >would be deemed a= usurper, and the act illegal and a sure fire recipe > for civil war. On to= p of that, Turgon then vanished into Gondolin, > effectively leaving the N= oldor without an accessible High King. The > whole thing looks very 'unelv= en'. Not really. It was common in the medieval time period that if a child= was too young too rule and especially when they weren't baptised yet or no= t full grown enough, the rulership went to someone else. Don't forget that = elves don't mature that fast than men would. So perhaps a man would be old = enough to inherit rulership in the medieval age (the age of 12 was quite c= ommon as my research has proven), but that would leave an elven child way t= oo young. Let alone there is also the question what happened with the child= before Fingon would ride to war (send off to the isle of Balar methinks). = I cannot imagine, to prevent further kinstrife (from who ... Finarfin's sci= ons? Maybe Celegorm would have bypassed his brother... hmmm) > A comparat= ive is 16th century Scotland at the death of James V. > Despite it being a = rough and violent society, and despite a threat > of war from England, the= lords still swore allegiance to his baby > daughter. I hate to think they = had more sense of 'rightness' than > the elves of the First Age. I am stu= dying a period some ages before that where the daughters of an Earl by exce= ption (King Edward III had a hand in it) could contest to leadership (but t= hat was highly exceptional), but the European mainland was under strict gov= ernance of the holy empire who always had the last word. It all depends on = political structures. Amongst the Noldor princes, I don't think Maedhros wo= uld have allowed any of his brothers causing amock, but then again, this is= after the Nirnaeth where the Feanorian's league was broken and they wander= ed as leaves before the wind. This leaves the House of Finarfin... Orodreth= then? Would Galadriel want to rule as a Queen? I don't think both would co= ntest that decision with the might of Gondolin shown during the Nirnaeth. = > The more convoluted, HoME-based 'other way' at least fits the line > of= succession. Fingolfin to Fingon. Fingon to Turgon. Then across to > the ot= her side of the family, to Finarfin's sons (all dead) and > grandsons - or= great-grandsons, depending on where you place > Orodreth. I've tended to = support it purely for its logic. However, > I'd love to see a Silm-based e= xplanation that held water. Anyone? I think, as usual, rulership of the Hi= gh Kings would remain in a house. On Aman, Fingolfin plegded himself to his= elder brother Feanor (shortly before Finwe was killed), so the rulership w= ould remain in the House of Feanor. Remember that during the Mereth Adertha= d (Feast of Reuniting), Maedhros willingly gave the rulership over the Nold= or to Fingolfin's house. The House of Feanor became dispossed and the House= of Finarfin were placed as reserves. It makes sense that first the House o= f Fingolfin has to fail before the House of Finarfin gets the crown passed = on. Technically, which makes Maeglin's motives so interesting, even Maeglin= could have claimed high kingship being Aredhel's son and being a member of= the House of Fingolfin. Oh the bunnies! *whistles an innocent tune* Rhap= sody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1138 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31578 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2007 23:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2007 23:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2007 23:40:22 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.ca4.142e8f14 (57293) for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:40:18 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184370018" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=1NOZ8DIA2CN5R-Gi2xN9T3wfmVcr8U8tJHjouJivL32eIfSkMf7m X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184370018 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/13/2007 6:37:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes: It makes sense that first the House of Fingolfin has to fail before the House of Finarfin gets the crown passed on. Technically, which makes Maeglin's motives so interesting, even Maeglin could have claimed high kingship being Aredhel's son and being a member of the House of Fingolfin. Oh the bunnies! *whistles an innocent tune* A rabid bunnny this time I think, Rhapsody! I would certainly read that one! Oshun ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1184370018 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/13/2007 6:37:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com w= rites:
It makes sense that first
the= House of Fingolfin has to fail before the House of Finarfin gets
the= crown passed on. Technically, which makes Maeglin's motives so
inter= esting, even Maeglin could have claimed high kingship being
Aredhel's= son and being a member of the House of Fingolfin. Oh the
bunnies!
*whistles an innocent tune*
=
A rabid bunnny this time I think, Rhapsody! I would certainly read tha= t one!
 
Oshun



Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.
-------------------------------1184370018-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1139 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrapcat21@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5746 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2007 00:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2007 00:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.250) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2007 00:40:58 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n29.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 00:40:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 00:40:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 00:40:57 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:40:56 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "keiliss" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=238321209; y=jLFlTnIGy-VKB2m98JdLNK7mZDV1QwAyMDbT2xxdfl1o82XRpA X-Yahoo-Profile: keiliss --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: Very interesting conjecture. You would have hoped though= for some attempt to appoint a regent or some discussion about a matter as = important as a change in the succession. I guess it's one of those 'open' a= reas in canon? (I suspect Tolkien wrote rather as we do - I personally have= three versions of Glorfindel's return, all of which I like, and all mutual= ly exclusive) Of course, the boy who was 'too young' to rule at Fingon's d= eath became High King when Gondolin fell less than 40 years later - a drop = in the ocean as elves measured time, and righting any wrong if there was on= e. That, of course, raises the question of what Gil-galad would have though= t of all this had Gondolin not fallen when it did. Five hundred years later= , he might have been forgiven for feeling that he had been robbed. I think= I'm still slightly more comfortable with the logic of him as Orodreth's so= n somehow... At the fall of Gondolin, Fingolfin's line would have ended, sa= ve for the half-elven Earendil. Time then to move to the 'second' line. And= no smear on Turgon's name. > Would Galadriel want to rule as a Queen? = Well, she originally thought it would be a great idea to find a realm to or= der to her will, lol. I'm sure I've seen a note somewhere about the kingshi= p not passing to the female line, though whether that has a basis in canon = or is purely conjecture I have no idea. I think she would have made a formi= dable High Queen though. > Technically, which makes Maeglin's motives so = > interesting, even Maeglin could have claimed high kingship being > Aredhe= l's son and being a member of the House of Fingolfin. Oh the > bunnies! Ma= eglin - yes, I always thought he had a Plan *grins*. That would make for a = very interesting bunny indeed. ~Kei From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1140 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31036 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2007 13:05:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2007 13:05:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.9) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2007 13:05:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 13:05:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 13:05:20 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:05:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=ELH8sL88wvhYTc_fjd1P39Ghqef9Ctx6ar_ACrQBagPPcm2xTQKvvh8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > In a message dated 7/13/2007 6:37:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rh= apsody74@... writes: > >> It makes sense that first the House of Fingolfin= has to fail before >> the House of Finarfin gets the crown passed on. Tech= nically, which >> makes Maeglin's motives so interesting, even Maeglin co= uld have >> claimed high kingship being Aredhel's son and being a member = of >> the House of Fingolfin. Oh the bunnies! > > *whistles an innocent = tune* > > A rabid bunnny this time I think, Rhapsody! I would certainly re= ad > that one! Now if I'd get more hours in a day to write, that would b= e perfect. :) Maeglin is such an interesting character to write, everytime = he pops up he keeps on surprising me. *quietly adds said bunny to her writ= ing list* Your birthday is almost a year away, so I probably could make it = :) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1141 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34568 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2007 13:36:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2007 13:36:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.235) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2007 13:36:07 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n24.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 13:36:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 13:36:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 13:36:06 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:36:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=NHpoc7739Eu2PhNBr3pXcvDyoWnu-TaUxN-Rgbru08OgX__YafPTvEU X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "keiliss" = wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_= bard" > wrote: > > Very interesting conjecture. You would ha= ve hoped though for some > attempt to appoint a regent or some discussion a= bout a matter as > important as a change in the succession. I guess it's on= e of those > 'open' areas in canon? (I suspect Tolkien wrote rather as we d= o - I > personally have three versions of Glorfindel's return, all of which= > I like, and all mutually exclusive) Oh as far as I am concerned, every= thing in canon is an 'open' area, especially since the professor approached= things from so many angles. Why can't an approach from a different author = not be seen as canon? :) Yeah it would have helped if he decided on things = from time to time ;) But I can see the reasoning of the professor and Chris= topher to have Gil-galad as the son of Fingon, especially with every work o= ut there, in the indexes of the Silm, Children of H=FArin =E1nd Unfinised T= ales Gil-galad ends up as Fingon's son. That can't be a mistake somehow. Th= e librarian in me keeps on saying that. > Of course, the boy who was 'too= young' to rule at Fingon's death > became High King when Gondolin fell les= s than 40 years later - a > drop in the ocean as elves measured time, and = righting any wrong if > there was one. That, of course, raises the questio= n of what > Gil-galad would have thought of all this had Gondolin not fall= en > when it did. Five hundred years later, he might have been forgiven >= for feeling that he had been robbed. I wonder *if* he had such strong fee= lings about wanting to be a high king. Yes, he was a valiant and strong lea= der of his people, but actually wanting to rule with all the pressure that = comes with it? Its all if's anyway because Gondolin did fall. :( > I thin= k I'm still slightly more comfortable with the logic of him as > Orodreth's= son somehow... At the fall of Gondolin, Fingolfin's line > would have ende= d, save for the half-elven Earendil. Time then to > move to the 'second' l= ine. And no smear on Turgon's name. To me it doesn't make sense to be hon= est, but each to their own :) > > Would Galadriel want to rule as a Queen?= > > Well, she originally thought it would be a great idea to find a > r= ealm to order to her will, lol. I'm sure I've seen a note somewhere > about= the kingship not passing to the female line, though whether > that has a = basis in canon or is purely conjecture I have no idea. I > think she would= have made a formidable High Queen though. Well the professor said that e= lven women and men didn't differ that much from each other, so why couldn't= they rule? I never read that only male elves could lead, but with so many = books... Queen Nerdanel, hmmm that sounds intriguing. :) For men/edain, i= t was a different matter because except for Haleth to lead the Haladin (I b= elieve that was an exception), only later in Numenor they changed their leg= islation (so to speak) to have female queens as well. Not that Ar-Pharazon = agreed to that much later on, but that's something to our fab second age/nu= menor writers we have in this group. Also of course European history shows= us that females could inherit a throne, just think of Elizabeth I, Queen M= ary of the Scots, Elizabeth of Gorlitz, Queen Eleanor of Castile, Maria The= resia of Hapsburg-Lorraine, Isabella II of Bourbon, Margaret of Austria (Du= chess of Parma and Governor General of The Netherlands), Catherine de Medic= i (okay a regent, but an very powerful one with a lot of influence), Isabel= la of Castile, Queen Victoria... > > Technically, which makes Maeglin's mo= tives so > > interesting, even Maeglin could have claimed high kingship bei= ng > > Aredhel's son and being a member of the House of Fingolfin. Oh the >= > bunnies! > > Maeglin - yes, I always thought he had a Plan *grins*. Tha= t would > make for a very interesting bunny indeed. *nods* I just sped of= f a letter to the powers that be ;) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1142 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12928 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2007 15:26:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2007 15:26:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2007 15:26:21 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.d4d.8ae29ca (58550) for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:26:07 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184426767" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=v6TezoAcLT3LKAC123MKS5TBsgowfpumWGXwuIoxVQHRmfSCLuYC X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184426767 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/14/2007 8:05:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes: Now if I'd get more hours in a day to write, that would be perfect. :) Maeglin is such an interesting character to write, everytime he pops up he keeps on surprising me. I'm learning about reduced time per day since I've been running over to my daughter's every day to see the baby. *quietly adds said bunny to her writing list* Your birthday is almost a year away, so I probably could make it :) Oh! That would be exciting. ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1184426767 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 7/14/2007 8:05:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes:=
Now if I'd get more hours in a day t= o write, that would be perfect. :)
Maeglin is such an interesting cha= racter to write, everytime he pops
up he keeps on surprising me.
<= /FONT>
I'm learning about reduced time per day since I've= been running over to my daughter's every day to see the baby.

*quietly adds said bunny to her writing list* = Your birthday is almost
a year away, so I probably could make it :)
Oh! That would be exciting.


 
 


Get a sneak peak of the al= l-new AOL.com.
-------------------------------1184426767-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1143 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrapcat21@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18680 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2007 17:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2007 17:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.217) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2007 17:06:41 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 17:06:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 17:06:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 17:06:40 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:06:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "keiliss" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=238321209; y=zQyTxy-p2Ks_jDIvYZHFoScxxgMj0QarR7HUFqCrMQ420VnY4Q X-Yahoo-Profile: keiliss --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > >[But I can see the reasoning of the professor and Chri= stopher to have > Gil-galad as the son of Fingon, especially with every wor= k out there,> in the indexes of the Silm, Children of H=FArin =E1nd Unfinis= ed Tales > Gil-galad ends up as Fingon's son. That can't be a mistake someh= ow. > The librarian in me keeps on saying that.] Lordy, this took a bit of= finding, but with help from Uli I finally tracked down the reference that = originally made me decide in favour of Orodreth. From The Peoples of Middle= -earth, excerpts from the section titled The Shibboleth of Feanor. Many apo= logies for length and formatting - trying to be clear :( **In an isolate= d note found with the genealogies, scribbled at great speed but nonethe= less dated, August 1965, my father suggested that the best solution = to the problem of Gil-galad's parentage was to find him in 'the son= of Orodreth', who is here given the Quenya name of Artaresto ......= ............. **There can be no doubt that this was= my father's last word on the subject; but nothing of this late and ra= dically altered conception ever touched the existing narratives, and = it was obviously impossible to introduce it into the published Silmarilli= on. It would nonetheless have been very much better to have left Gil-gal= ad's parentage obscure................ **I should mention also = that in the published text of Aldarion and Erendis (Unfinished Tal= es p. 199) the letter of Gil-galad to Tar-Meneldur opens 'Ereinion G= il-galad son of Fingon', but the original has 'Finellach Gil-galad of th= e House of Finarfin' (where Finellach was changed from Finhenlach, and= that from Finlachen). For the name Ereinion see p. 347 and note 47.= So also in the text of A Description of the Island of Numenor (Unf= inished Tales p. 168) I printed 'King Gil-galad of Lindon' where the o= riginal has 'King Finellach Gil-galad of Lindon'.............. = **Much closer analysis of the admi= t-tedly extremely complex material than I had made twenty years ago= makes it clear that Gil-galad as the son of Fingon (see XI.56, 243) was = an ephemeral idea. ** I'm not sure I'd take everything I find i= n notes and side thoughts as being written in stone, but when the compiler = says he made a mistake, I tend to let him have his way on it. > > > Wou= ld Galadriel want to rule as a Queen? > > > Well the professor said that = elven women and men didn't differ that > much from each other, so why could= n't they rule? .......... > Also of course European history shows us that = females could inherit a > throne, just think of... > This one I'm still lo= oking for - female inheritance. And yes of course I'm aware of all the fema= le monarchs down European history, though it's worth noting that the French= , otherwise a sensible people, did not allow the crown to pass to a woman. = I'm convinced there is mention of a similar tradition amongst the Noldor, t= hough I'm not prepared to swear off on it without a reference... I'll get b= ack to that later. Want to find it for my own satisfaction now *smiles* I'= ve been enjoying this - I've found all sorts of things I'd either forgotten= about or missed previously as they were out of my area of interest. I don'= t regard this material as definitive, as in 'people should change their vie= ws', but it makes a clear case for Orodreth and I'm prepared to respect the= source - although from the pov of a writer, I could certainly find plausib= le ways around it *grins*. ~Kei From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1144 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15415 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2007 17:18:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2007 17:18:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2007 17:18:49 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c0d.1c4d3af8 (58550) for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:18:31 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184433511" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=64Vo-ysfkM_KoJrR_ZvNukiNNiagFoBBTBLLt6lT6qojDFwrwI-3 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184433511 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/14/2007 12:07:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, scrapcat21@gmail.com writes: In an isolated note found with the genealogies, scribbled at great speed but nonetheless dated, August 1965, my father suggested that the best solution to the problem of Gil-galad's parentage was to find him in 'the son of Orodreth', who is here given the Quenya name of Artaresto ............here giv **There can be no doubt that this was my father's last word on the subject; but nothing of this late and radically altered conception ever touched the existing narratives, and it was obviously impossible to introduce it into the published Silmarillion. It would nonetheless have been very much better to have left Gil-galad's parentage obscure.....Gil-galadGil- Kei--Yes. That's the key cite for me as well. I had first decided to go with the published Silmarillion version of Fingon, until I read that footnote. Then I decided it seemed definitive enough for me to accept Orodreth as the one, but was swayed by personal preference alone back to Fingon. I find your arguments in favor of Orodreth and the logic and symmetry of succession following the House of Finarfin at that point in time convincing. But for my current story arc still sticking with the Fingon parentage for now. ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1184433511 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/14/2007 12:07:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, scrapcat21@gmail.com = writes:
In an isolated note found with = the genealogies, scribbled at
great speed but nonetheless dated, Aug= ust 1965, my father
suggested that the best solution to the problem = of Gil-galad's
parentage was to find him in 'the son of Orodreth', w= ho is
here given the Quenya name of Artaresto .................= ..

**There can be no doubt that this was my father's last word o= n
the subject; but nothing of this late and radically altered
con= ception ever touched the existing narratives, and it was
obviously im= possible to introduce it into the published Silmarillion.
It would no= netheless have been very much better to have left
Gil-galad's parenta= ge obscure................
<= /DIV>
Kei--Yes. That's the key cite for me as well. I had first decide= d to go with the published Silmarillion version of Fingon, until = I read that footnote. Then I decided it seemed definitive enough for me to= accept Orodreth as the one, but was swayed by personal preference alone b= ack to Fingon. I find your arguments in favor of Orodreth and the logic an= d symmetry of succession following the House of Finarfin at that point in = time convincing. But for my current story arc still sticking with the Fing= on parentage for now.
 
 

<= BR>
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-------------------------------1184433511-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1145 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66804 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2007 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2007 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.120) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2007 21:00:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 28873 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2007 20:51:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) ([172.18.5.75]) (envelope-sender ) by fallback02.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 14 Jul 2007 20:51:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 17724 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2007 20:44:29 -0000 Received: from m143p030.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.185.222]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub72.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 14 Jul 2007 20:44:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <469935B7.000005.03952@MARINA> Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:44:39 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_FAS66RO0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=tA8BNPlbu46VHe2WHBjNQFGlAF6Y1Xn5-5U6pfx65EbyUX5tR4iE X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_FAS66RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maeglin is actually my favorite character....www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin I= can not get enough of writing about him=B4...that is why the rather dark s= tories are getting lately out of my fingers ...=20 Indeed Maeglin had more than Idril in mind when he opened the gates of Gon= dolin to let Morgoth in. I guess becoming king was nearly the same importan= t to him then this elleth with her light hair. I could see him, mind darke= ned due to Idril having wed that mortal that he did not like at all, that i= f he had had a chance to lay his hands on Gil Galad, he might have done som= ething. I consider him when it comes to power just like any other emperor relative= or princeling that longs for the throne. Just think that all the sons of t= he house of Habsburg went to wash their hair in a locked room, because they= worried one of their brothers would stab them otherwise..and of Maeglin we= know that he wanted - in his desperate state of mind - even end E=E4rendil= 's life...so Gil Galad would have been another one to be pushed out of the = way on his road to kingship. Just my two pennies... Marina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Date: 07/14/07 17:26:25 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy =20 In a message dated 7/14/2007 8:05:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@= gmail.com writes: Now if I'd get more hours in a day to write, that would be perfect. :) Maeglin is such an interesting character to write, everytime he pops up he keeps on surprising me. I'm learning about reduced time per day since I've been running over to my= daughter's every day to see the baby. *quietly adds said bunny to her writing list* Your birthday is almost a year away, so I probably could make it :) Oh! That would be exciting.=20 =20 =20 Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com. =20 --------------Boundary-00=_FAS66RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = <= /TABLE>3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_FAS66RO0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1146 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80197 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2007 21:40:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2007 21:40:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.207) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2007 21:40:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 21:40:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 21:40:00 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:40:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=HAH5cj203FpnvYlimL1pGLucg-IkUk14Jvn_r0dOb1u2Yu5WsIjkV-4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > In a message dated 7/14/2007 8:05:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, > rhapso= dy74@... writes: > >> Now if I'd get more hours in a day to write, that w= ould be >> perfect. :) >> Maeglin is such an interesting character to wri= te, everytime he >> pops up he keeps on surprising me. > > I'm learning = about reduced time per day since I've been running over > to my daughter's= every day to see the baby. LOL! You are getting the best deal here :) Suc= h a little one is so precious, isn't it? >> *quietly adds said bunny to h= er writing list* Your birthday is >> almost a year away, so I probably co= uld make it :) > > Oh! That would be exciting. Okay, that's a deal! :c) = Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1147 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51041 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2007 22:02:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2007 22:02:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.248) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2007 22:02:17 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n28.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 22:02:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 22:02:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2007 22:02:09 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:02:08 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=LomItyAeQEcj6-NaHEPZxl_wwZzr-7qu-rNaUqJov0MJBDotdy3j1S8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "keiliss" = wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_= bard" > wrote: > > >>[But I can see the reasoning of the prof= essor and Christopher to >>have Gil-galad as the son of Fingon, especially= with every work out >> there, in the indexes of the Silm, Children of H=FA= rin =E1nd Unfinised >>Tales Gil-galad ends up as Fingon's son. That can't = be a mistake >>somehow. The librarian in me keeps on saying that.] > > I'm not sure I'd take everything I find in notes and side thoughts > a= s being written in stone, but when the compiler says he made a > mistake, = I tend to let him have his way on it. No, but the thing is... he got th= e chance to fix at least 2 times over: a) with the revised edition of the S= ilmarillion published in 1999 (one of the copies that I own and were severa= l changes have been made in the text, also canonwise with Numenorean leader= ship) and Children of H=FArin in 2007. POME was published in 1996 (UT in 19= 80), yet he maintained Gil-Galad being Fingon's son. That simply doesn't ma= ke any sense to me. Why publish a second and revised edition of the Silm in= 1999 when a book in 1996 says something different. It doesn't add up to me= . I usually balance HOME bits, one mentioning against many others that stat= e the opposite... hmmm. >>>> Would Galadriel want to rule as a Queen? >>= > >>> Well the professor said that elven women and men didn't differ >>> = that much from each other, so why couldn't they rule? .......... >> >> Als= o of course European history shows us that females could inherit > a thron= e, just think of... > > > This one I'm still looking for - female inherita= nce. Look closely, except for Catherina de Medici, all inherited the thro= ne/rulership. Yes, they married someone outside the house, but their house = was ruling and the line was passed on through them. I did give the names fo= r a reason. > And yes of course I'm aware of all the female monarchs down = European > history, though it's worth noting that the French, otherwise a = >sensible people, did not allow the crown to pass to a woman. Well, French= royalty didn't quite survive it... English, Belgian, Danish, Spanish & Dut= ch nobility is still standing. Greece monarchy is in exile, Liechtenstein a= nd Luxembourg have grand dukes... The Swedish and Norwegian houses are quit= e young compared to their other European counterparts. Even though Germany = doesn't have monarchs, their nobility are mostly married into other Europea= n Houses. > I'm convinced there is mention of a similar tradition amongst = the > Noldor, though I'm not prepared to swear off on it without a > refe= rence... I'll get back to that later. Yes please, I am looking forward to = that! > I've been enjoying this - I've found all sorts of things I'd eithe= r > forgotten about or missed previously as they were out of my area of > i= nterest. I don't regard this material as definitive, as in > 'people should= change their views', but it makes a clear case for > Orodreth and I'm prep= ared to respect the source - although from the > pov of a writer, I could c= ertainly find plausible ways around it > *grins*. Of course! That is what= makes writing and reading other stories so interesting, at least for me. T= his combined with that I have had my nose stuck in European royal and noble= genealogy for a long time now... I know why in medieval and very christian= Europe women were not seem fit to rule (Adam & Eve, women being seen as th= e weaker gender ect ect). Then again, I have seen so many examples where in= heritance of rulership were secured for women, especially when it came down= to when the widower married again. Most often it was the family of the dec= eased who'd fought hard to get it secured for their house. All politics, de= fending your own interests and mightily intriguing! Rhapsody (shuts up now= ) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1148 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrapcat21@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25340 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2007 00:30:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2007 00:30:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.211) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2007 00:30:43 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n32.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2007 00:30:15 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2007 00:30:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2007 00:30:15 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:30:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "keiliss" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=238321209; y=MdUQFQsN1ZlgflXRChl0fH7-MxBIVwPeg8CUttQg_AhYqxAHjg X-Yahoo-Profile: keiliss --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: I usually balance HOME bits, one mentioning against man= y > others that state the opposite... hmmm. Of course an error committed = once tends to be repeated elsewhere until the original mistake is picked up= . By which time - like in this case - adjusting a detail through several = works/chapters might not seem worth the trouble? Especially as, in the grea= ter scheme of things, this is a fairly minor detail. Gil-galad's very long = and successful kingship doesn't depend on his father's identity, and nothin= g in Orodreth's or Fingon's lives relied upon one or other having a son. M= y reference (still searching) to female succession amongst the Elves (and i= n general), involves them holding power in their own right - not as consort= to a well-chosen mate. The professor was a product of his time as we're al= ways reminded - a warlike High Queen might have appealed to him about as mu= ch as Matilda did to the average 12th century English noble. Arwen sat home= and designed a standard while Aragorn went off and fought the Bad Guys - J= RR probably found her far more respectable than Luthien or Galadriel. I, on= the other hand, favour them because I love strong women :) > Then again,= I have seen so many examples where inheritance > of rulership were secured= for women, especially when it came down to > when the widower married agai= n. Most often it was the family of the > deceased who'd fought hard to get = it secured for their house. All > politics, defending your own interests an= d mightily intriguing! > Of course Elizabeth l never married... she ruled = alone (with huge success) and used her single status as a political weapon,= but she was an exception. Too often, royal wives or daughters were regarde= d as a source of power by the men in the family - Mary Stuart's status as f= uture Queen of France gave the Guise family immense influence, which was he= r main value to them. (Of course it all went horribly wrong in the end) The= widows actually had the best of it - they tended to be old enough and esta= blished enough to rule independently and did a darn good job of it, too....= ...... Which has rambled a loooong way off from my initial curiosity as to= whether there was a logical way to reconcile the Silm's rather arbitrary a= pproach to royal succession. Dunno how it ended up here, but it's been a gr= eat way to get to know you :) ~Kei. > Rhapsody > (shuts up now) > (Yep, m= e too *grins*. And thank you for the debate) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1149 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33714 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2007 21:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2007 21:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.182) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2007 21:08:27 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a25so1970979pyi for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:08:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=GWvYd5ypsQavPGGC6qfvESxsMRLZpo3BYgYtBOXxwrbFWwJlBFMXyjEPHY9EinDUJXtsuidqP8VwBeIAR2yMHWIc4QREiSYY8ZlpFGFSSVq3Cpe2gC1nRAYJE7UJONZXioRcIkEsYDwii4JKsTfN00mlPhogg0IRRuw15YALjxc= Received: by 10.35.86.19 with SMTP id o19mr6341450pyl.1184533693777; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.88.8 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:08:13 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_30509_21469847.1184533693708" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=aOlNWLBNuztQ50GifDT3p4buT1ixk7nxjKC-cTXKMY6emRLpOkWc X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_30509_21469847.1184533693708-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1150 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53670 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2007 21:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2007 21:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2007 21:29:44 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.bdb.15b7a5d7 (29679) for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:28:51 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184534931" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=IVcHXMjYxBB_pZCw1J3sJ9bmw8PVSrSIXvomhot9P18nCGUs1Yxu X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184534931 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/15/2007 4:15:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: I like the idea that the Elves had gender equality--and according to Laws & Customs, they do--but the actual histories seem to suggest otherwise. I think a lot of people like that idea. I wrote a little 200-word piece a couple of days relating to Curufin taking Celebrimbor with him when he left Aman and his mother stayed behind. I posted it at the writer's circle where I post some of my unfinished work hoping for corrections of grammar or comma usage or if people thought it generally had nothing to say (no reason to exist). There were no comments on style. But it was met with firestorm of discussion basically relating to the fact that people wanted to see Celebrimbor's mother as a stronger more proactive character. They also wanted to know why she had not gone left with the Noldor--the general agreement was they did not like the idea all of the Feanorian brothers' wives might have stayed behind. Interesting discussion which said more about the participants than canon. ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1184534931 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/15/2007 4:15:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.
-------------------------------1184534931-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1151 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16544 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2007 22:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2007 22:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.183) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2007 22:05:13 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so1986839pyb for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 15:05:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=DCo6Hfv/Lfo5YPV6gqi7u3V5YA2Qc+uLynaOOucq2b2LYIow3lizxYHhc0Ocgk78mmLMY1KgpiVSioLnyd0ThWRTRB2lxhG77lBPHNpL+B9j6lvOYTJR5VnmH01ENtQQ0CMd3wSb2a9pxfpB5sBb3IzFKmp6xSNUnXumFk+o/Ic= Received: by 10.35.91.1 with SMTP id t1mr6425997pyl.1184537112212; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 15:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.88.8 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 15:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:05:12 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_30645_26037429.1184537112138" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=eXQJCuNutplYvjhXiixT3wZoz64EeWgRIc3lEc2S1WZz8ryGRzT0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_30645_26037429.1184537112138-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1152 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 867 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2007 22:59:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2007 22:59:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2007 22:59:35 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.d21.eea272a (29679) for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:59:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:59:28 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184540368" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=jxdSnbP0BjyZnh8is-CYkydGm4C6r2DYdcypmdQnjO-eWQsaaHKU X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184540368 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/15/2007 5:05:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: It always kind of amuses/dismays me when it is thought that those who stayed behind are somehow weak for it. I've always thought it takes a great deal of strength. I appreciate your political comments. In my story arc, the wives/girlfriends of the Finweans who stayed behind each had their own individual reasons. I made a remark in the discussion--largely but not entirely facetious--that I figured that after several years exiled in Formenos with that crew (who are loosely based in my story cycle on my ex's family--brilliant, egoistical, difficult people) virtual forever started to sound like a very long time. Also I admitted that I was nudged by details in your By the Light of Roses, where the entire family is fraying badly around all the edges in the last days at Formenos and Curufin's marriage could be seen as being in a near meltdown stage (which in no one implies that people don't love one another). Gandalfs_apprentice had a comment that made me laugh: "Well, I'd like to know more about these women. How about, 'Celebrimbor, honey baby, come with Mommy and we'll make you a powerful lord to rule over great lands in Middle-earth, never mind craft a few rings and such'?" It was funny to me that all the complaints and suggestions and opinions were generated by 200 words. ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1184540368 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/15/2007 5:05:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:

How about, 'Cel= ebrimbor, honey baby, come with Mommy and we'll make you a powerful lord t= o rule over great lands in Middle-earth, never mind craft a few rings and = such'?"
It was funny to me that all the complaints and sugge= stions and opinions were generated by 200 words.



Get a sneak pe= ak of the all-new AOL.com. -------------------------------1184540368-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1153 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37091 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2007 11:31:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2007 11:31:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.211) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2007 11:31:18 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n32.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 11:31:14 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 11:31:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 11:31:14 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:31:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=hwa5pnV2mLWfdAmmx3AnqAX3LJec87zl0-DOrcl-mKho3lFvsZ_oRrZq X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > I don't know that I've ever seen a quote that explic= itly says that the > kingship can't pass to a woman. (Which doesn't mean th= at it doesn't exist, > of course ... ;) But if one takes the House of Finwe= as presented in > "Shibboleth of Feanor" (HoMe12) as canon (and I *think* = this may have been > another of those "last words on the subject" that didn= 't make it into the > published book), then the kingship should have passed= to Findis, not > Finarfin. She was older than him and remained in Aman wit= h Indis. Yet the > kingship skips her entirely ... which leads me to believ= e that Tolkien > didn't have female kings in mind for the Noldor. :) Simil= arly, one might wonder why the regency did not pass to Idril when Turgon we= nt down with the ship. I haven't run across specific text pertaining to s= uccession among the Noldor either, but again, that doesn't mean it's not b= uried in some impossibly small font somewhere. That said, the evidence se= ems to support strongly succession by agnatic/ patrilineal primogeniture,* = e.g. the examples of Findis and Idril. who, if equal/lineal primogeniture= was operative in the Noldorin succession, would have been queens. Patrili= neal primogeniture ensures that Maeglin would never have legitimately been = awarded the crown, so seduction by Morgoth would have been that much easie= r. Marina has plenty of fodder for a good story line there, I would think= . The pre-Ancalim=EB succession in Numenor infers that patrilineal primoge= niture was likely the prevailing custom among the Noldor. After all, the = Numenoreans aped much of Eldarin/Noldorin customs, at least initially. In= terestingly, the change from patrilineal primogeniture to equal primogenit= ure is noted as a change in law in the Appendix of LofR, but as a change i= n "prevailing custom" in Unfinished Tales. I like the idea that the Elve= s had gender equality--and according > to Laws & Customs, they do--but the = actual histories seem to suggest > otherwise. Heh. I like the *idea,* too,= but as you note, the histories, and the writings of Aelfwine indicate dif= ferently. Perhaps to an Anglo-Saxon of his era, the customs of the neri a= nd nissi would seem very progressive. Aelfwine explicitly noted there ar= e no proscriptions on what neri and nessi can do according to gender roles= . Yet, there's all that "natural inclinations" business, cf.p. 214 (in my= edition anyway) of Morgoth's Ring. Nissi tend the gardens and the fields= , because they're *inclined* to do so, and neri are smiths and inventors, = since they are *inclined* to do so. Reading that very much reminds me of L= arry Summer's (former president of Harvard) assessment as to why women are= n't *inclined* to joining the ranks of science and engineering faculty at = top level universities. *Ahem* I'd say the strong inference of patrili= neal primogeniture among the Noldor bear out the interpretation that there= were indeed distinctions in gender role according to custom, if not inher= ent ability. *agnatic/patrilineal primogeniture - inheritance according t= o seniority of birth among the children of a monarch or head of family, wi= th sons inheriting before brothers, and male- line descendants inheriting b= efore collateral relatives in the male line, to the total exclusion of fem= ales and descendants through females. I have been just *dying* to use that= term! :^D From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1154 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56145 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2007 13:28:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2007 13:28:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2007 13:28:18 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 13:28:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 13:28:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 13:28:11 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:28:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=g7v3rrWl2yqLen1G0O33XjMhEVq2ZaiFgd_NltMHFw6dejuE6wX93FE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushw= ell" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogrou= ps.com, "Dawn Felagund" > wrote: > > > >> I don't know t= hat I've ever seen a quote that explicitly says that >> the> kingship can'= t pass to a woman. (Which doesn't mean that it >> doesn't exist, of course= ... ;) But if one takes the House of Finwe >> as presented in "Shibboleth = of Feanor" (HoMe12) as canon (and I >> *think* this may have been another = of those "last words on the >> subject" that didn't make it into the publi= shed book), then the >> kingship should have passed to Findis, not Finarfi= n. She was older >> than him and remained in Aman with Indis. Yet the king= ship skips >> her entirely ... which leads me to believe that Tolkien >> d= idn't have female kings in mind for the Noldor. :) > > Similarly, one migh= t wonder why the regency did not pass to Idril > when Turgon went down wit= h the ship. I haven't run across specific > text pertaining to succession= among the Noldor either, but again, > that doesn't mean it's not buried i= n some impossibly small font > somewhere. That said, the evidence seems t= o support strongly > succession by agnatic/patrilineal primogeniture,* e.= g. the examples > of Findis and Idril. Well, there I was wondering where = it left Aredhel if she survived. A very strong minded woman, and probably b= efore Idril in lineage. Which makes Maeglin's claim stronger, this being fe= d with more delightful details that I came across in HOME. > who, if equal= /lineal primogeniture was operative in the Noldorin > succession, would ha= ve been queens. I so love that idea. But as I was pondering about this thi= s morning, Findis might have felt more Vanyar than Noldor. Maybe she simply= refused, feeling more kinship to the Vanyar? This always reminds me of whi= ch people say in families, that daughters remain closer to their mother's f= amily instead of the inlaws. Just a thought. > Patrilineal primogeniture = ensures that Maeglin would never have > legitimately been awarded the crow= n, so seduction by Morgoth would > have been that much easier. Marina has= plenty of fodder for a good > story line there, I would think. Well my n= ame is not Marina, but yes I have found plenty of canon fodder to explore t= his ;) > The pre-Ancalim=EB succession in Numenor infers that patrilineal= > primogeniture was likely the prevailing custom among the Noldor. > Af= ter all, the Numenoreans aped much of Eldarin/Noldorin customs, at > least = initially. Interestingly, the change from patrilineal > primogeniture to = equal primogeniture is noted as a change in law in > the Appendix of LofR,= but as a change in "prevailing custom" in > Unfinished Tales. I was wond= ering... here we go again, wasn't there something like that regarding the k= instrige in Gondor, early third age? I remember something regarding that...= >> I like the idea that the Elves had gender equality--and according >> = to Laws & Customs, they do--but the actual histories seem to >> suggestoth= erwise. > > Heh. I like the *idea,* too, but as you note, the histories, a= nd the > writings of Aelfwine indicate differently. Perhaps to an > Angl= o-Saxon of his era, the customs of the neri and nissi would seem > very pro= gressive. Aelfwine explicitly noted there are no > proscriptions on what= neri and nessi can do according to gender > roles. Yet, there's all that= "natural inclinations" business, cf.p. > 214 (in my edition anyway) of Mor= goth's Ring. Nissi tend the > gardens and the fields, because they're *in= clined* to do so, and > neri are smiths and inventors, since they are *inc= lined* to do so. Well, don't forget that Aelfwine's premable says: obser= vations. Not necessarily that it were rules set in stone. It might have bee= n a custom of one house, but didn't necessarily have to apply for all the N= oldor. > Reading that very much reminds me of Larry Summer's (former > p= resident of Harvard) assessment as to why women aren't *inclined* > to joi= ning the ranks of science and engineering faculty at top level > universiti= es. *Ahem* w00t? > I'd say the strong inference of patrilineal primo= geniture among the > Noldor bear out the interpretation that there were in= deed > distinctions in gender role according to custom, if not inherent >= ability. As far as I am concerned all could rule equally. There are quite= some strong willed Noldor women in the books. > *agnatic/patrilineal prim= ogeniture - inheritance according to > seniority of birth among the child= ren of a monarch or head of > family, with sons inheriting before brothers= , and male- > line descendants inheriting before collateral relatives in th= e male >line, to the total exclusion of females and descendants through = > females. > > I have been just *dying* to use that term! :^D LOL Well, = truth to be told, I have seen this happening in the genealogies of noble ho= uses that even a bastard son inherited sooner than a brother... Fun stuff t= his. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1155 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49057 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2007 14:06:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2007 14:06:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.210) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2007 14:06:32 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n31.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 14:02:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 14:02:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 14:02:34 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:02:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=QpDQTSizjp2qvpmClq5aTPFJxZu9NWy57mZ3RX4rOOCU1PhcCCBnlRCP X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > > Well, there I was wondering where it left Aredhel i= f she survived. A > very strong minded woman, and probably before Idril in = lineage. Which > makes Maeglin's claim stronger, this being fed with more d= elightful > details that I came across in HOME. That's right! If equal pr= imogeniture applied, Aredhel would have had a stronger claim than Idril, e= r, well, if she hadn't been hit with that poisoned dart. > > I so love th= at idea. But as I was pondering about this this morning, > Findis might hav= e felt more Vanyar than Noldor. Maybe she simply > refused, feeling more ki= nship to the Vanyar? This always reminds me of > which people say in famili= es, that daughters remain closer to their > mother's family instead of the = inlaws. Just a thought. > I'd be more than happy to read fan fic which e= xplored "what-if's" regarding equal primogeniture among that crowd. I can= hear the bunnies a'hopping. Not mine though. I have my own crazy agenda= . :^) > > Well my name is not Marina, but yes I have found plenty of ca= non > fodder to explore this ;) > Dang it! Sorry about that, Rhapsody. = I'll plead the excuse of not enough caffeine in my system. > > I was wo= ndering... here we go again, wasn't there something like that > regarding t= he kinstrige in Gondor, early third age? I remember > something regarding t= hat... > Calling all Gondorian scholars... > > Well, don't forget that= Aelfwine's premable says: observations. Not > necessarily that it were rul= es set in stone. It might have been a > custom of one house, but didn't nec= essarily have to apply for all the > Noldor. I agree that Aelfwine was no= Margaret Mead. Yet I'm still a wee bit cynical about that passage, since = I'm reading it from the prism of my experience (I know, I should be more o= bjective) but also from the time at which JRRT wrote that piece. It's not = dissimilar to a top level engineering department a.k.a. Gwaith-i-Mirdain ;= ^) stating "Look, we have one woman on our faculty! We're meeting gender = equality! Now let's all pat ourselves on the back, boys." > > > Reading = that very much reminds me of Larry Summer's (former > > president of Harva= rd) assessment as to why women aren't *inclined* > > to joining the ranks = of science and engineering faculty at top level > > universities. *Ahem* = > > w00t? Summers caused quite the controversy with this speech: http:= //www.president.harvard.edu/speeches/2005/nber.html But that's an onerous = tome to read. The Boston Globe article sums it up: http://www.boston.com= /news/education/higher/articles/2005/01/17/ summers_remarks_on_women_draw_f= ire/ > > > I'd say the strong inference of patrilineal primogeniture amon= g the > > Noldor bear out the interpretation that there were indeed > > d= istinctions in gender role according to custom, if not inherent > > abilit= y. > > As far as I am concerned all could rule equally. There are quite so= me > strong willed Noldor women in the books. Absolutely. I think it woul= d be an idea well worth exploring. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1156 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98786 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2007 15:04:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2007 15:04:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2007 15:04:44 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c55.19dd79b1 (57341) for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:58:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:58:36 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184597916" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=FrdHJZ_397idUGkRCOVgcjWj9B71ESbqu5mQI4n3MH2Ny9fyFeW8 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184597916 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2007 9:07:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: I agree that Aelfwine was no Margaret Mead. Favorite line from the most recent points in the discussion. Hehehe! I'm definitely going to reference that one. ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1184597916 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/16/2007 9:07:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com = writes:
I agree that Aelfwine was no Ma= rgaret Mead.
Favorite line from= the most recent points in the discussion. Hehehe! I'm definitely going to= reference that one.



Get= a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.=
-------------------------------1184597916-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1157 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79359 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2007 15:29:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2007 15:29:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.105) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2007 15:29:07 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n10.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 15:29:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 15:29:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2007 15:29:07 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:29:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Fingolfin" Subject: Fic: Meet Me After ** Ecthelion/Glorfindel ** 1/1 (R-Slash) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=tCnUnK5QBfqoVeUMH6phXI21BkDUqZ-0UNe580m_4tag X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 Title: Meet Me After Author: phyncke Beta: jaiden_s Email: jhfink@sbcglobal= .net Rating: R (slash) Pairing: Glorfindel/Ecthelion Warnings: Character de= ath. Written For: Kenaz and the Jingle Bells in June Swap Summary: Glorfind= el and Ecthelion while competitors, discover love in Gondolin. Meet Me Aft= er After Deep within the encircling mountains, like a jewel on the emerald= fields of Tumladen, lay Ondolind=EB, The Rock of the Music of the Water. B= uilt as a reflection of Tirion, with shining fountains, smooth stone pathwa= ys, and vines of flowers cascading from the windows of its inhabitants, the= city was a testament to what was left behind. It was hidden, not to be fou= nd by friend or foe, though this could not last forever=85 Prologue All = of Ondolind=EB was out for the celebrating. There was music, dancing and wi= ne. Ohh, the wine. It flowed from the fountains like water. There was much= revelry to be had on the eve of Tarnin Austa, the Festival of the Gates of= Summer. Two elves sat side by side listening to the night's concert, in = front of Glingal and Belthil whose leaves shimmered silver and gold in the = fading light of the day. They heard a note that did not sound quite right,= shrill over the merry, light music being played. Was a trumpet out of tune= ? "What was that?" Glorfindel murmured as he finished his wine, the smile= fading from his face. Again the discordant, brass notes sounded, louder = and more strident this time. It was no mistake. "Stop the music!" The o= rchestra abruptly stopped and there was silence in the center of the city. = Dancing stopped, the crowd hushed and Ecthelion rose from his seat. The t= rumpets sounded from the walls surrounding the city, as if with one voice, = echoing through the stone streets. "We are found=85" Ecthelion murmured s= oftly. A glass shattered, dropped by a horror struck Elleth, and Turgon s= tood in the center of his people, taking command before the chaos could hit= . "Warriors, to your houses; arm yourselves for battle. The day we have d= readed is come. Ondolind=EB must make its stand. To your homes, my people. = Leave this to our soldiers and stay indoors. Move now, quickly. We will rep= el this attack as best we can=85have hope=85" Ecthelion looked at Glorfin= del and said. "Meet me after. You know where=85" "I will=85" And that w= as all they had to hope for. Many years earlier=85 "Take him, Lord E= cthelion! He is nothing to you!" "Go, Lord Glorfindel! Show the Fountain = what we are made of!" The two warriors circled in the sparring area, egge= d on by their soldiers and the larger audience from the city. One had rave= n hair and the other had hair so gold it shined in the sun, reflecting its = light. They were each leaders of two of the newly founded twelve houses of= Ondolind=EB, and it was the final bout in the series of competitions betwe= en the houses. This would decide the winner of the entire tournament; the G= olden Flower versus the Fountain, in hand-to -hand combat. "Someone has to= start here=85" Glorfindel said dryly, a small smile playing on his lips. "= They want action." "It is tedious, is it not? Let's give a good show, then= ." The crowd was far enough away and the noise so loud that no one would h= ear what the combatants were saying. "I could use a bath." "You could, yo= u definitely could." Ecthelion sniffed derisively. "That's it =85you've ha= d it, Fountain!" Glorfindel launched himself at Ecthelion with a battle cr= y that had his compatriots roaring in their seats. In a match that had the= m rolling in the dirt pummeling each other handily, Ecthelion of the Founta= in concluded one thing that embarrassed him to no end, something he had not= expected in all the years of his life to that point: he was attracted to = Glorfindel, Lord of the House of the Golden Flower. His body was responding= in a way he had not anticipated to their wrestling match. It was this tho= ught which occupied his mind when he was soundly slammed into the dirt by t= he object of his desire. His back hit the ground with a force that took his= breath for a moment. "Do you yield?!" The Elves watching roared at the c= ulmination of the fight. "No!" Ecthelion strained to break the hold. "I do= not!" "You will=85" Glorfindel leaned close to his ear to whisper for him= alone. "In all ways=85" Ecthelion was so surprised that he went slack, an= d Glorfindel pressed him all the way to down to the earth. "Lord Glorfinde= l has him! He has won!" Came the excited cry. The House of the Golden Flow= er erupted from the stands in jubilation. Glorfindel did not let his oppon= ent go immediately and held him just a little too long. "Meet me after." = "What?" "Meet me after, on the northern ramparts." "Alright=85I will." "= Good, we have much to discuss." Glorfindel rose to greet his king, dusting= off his leggings to accept the congratulations of Turgon, the founder and = king of Gondolin. There was to be some sort of ceremony on the square two d= ays hence, but that was not what was foremost in his mind. He was looking f= orward to his meeting with Ecthelion of the Fountain in a few hours. He ga= ve all due credit to his adversary for his prowess and chalked it up to luc= k=85and a well uttered phrase=85he reminded himself silently. He had no dou= bt Ecthelion would have come out of the hold had he not said those words to= knock him off balance. All is fair=85all is fair and he'd needed to know h= ow his long time friend would react. All is fair, indeed. Turgon was effus= ive. The competition had been a rousing success, and he was well satisfied = with both the attendance and the enthusiasm of the audience and the partici= pants alike. It had been a good way to launch the Houses. Now, the citizens= of Ondolind=EB would accept this system of organization for both political= and social structures. It was expedient, and Turgon liked that. Both warr= iors were congratulated by their king, and all Houses were complimented on = their sportsmanship and skill in the competition. The date was set for the = award ceremony and Turgon took his leave. The audience started to dissipate= quite quickly after that. Ecthelion and Glorfindel stood in the arena not= quite knowing what to do. "I am going to go bathe." "And then I will see= you." "Yes=85" Ecthelion said softly. "Do not worry=85all will be well."= They left then to meet later. On the ramparts=85 His hair was still = wet, but neatly braided, and his face freshly scrubbed from bathing, all th= e dirt removed from his skin and nails. Ecthelion rested his elbows on the = wall, wondering what he was about; what he was doing here exactly. He was s= o deep in thought that he did not hear Glorfindel approach. Glorfindel cam= e up behind Ecthelion, pressing his body against his friend's back, letting= his state of desire be known. He was not ashamed of it as some people were= . It was natural to feel this way. He would not hide from the attraction be= tween them. . "I have been in this state since our match, unabated=85unwav= ering. I need you Ecthelion and I think you feel the same. I can feel it i= n you=85somehow I can=85as with no other=85" Ecthelion moved against Glorf= indel restlessly, unintentionally sending a thrill of excitement through th= em both. He enjoyed the feeling of his friend's arousal against his backsid= e, the heady sensation of being desired by the one he wanted and the promis= e of love in this. If he were to admit it, he would have had to say there w= ould be love in this. Having been through so much together, walked the ice = together, fought side by side, their mutual respect was blossoming into som= ething else. Ecthelion whispered something to the wind that Glorfindel cou= ld not quite hear, but he could imagine what was said. "What is it, Ecthel= ion?" "I have never done this. I do not know if I can." "Do not be afraid= . I will show you the way of it=85but not here=85out of the city. We must g= et out of here." Ecthelion knew what Glorfindel meant instantly. Ondolind= =EB was beautiful but oppressive, and the very walls had eyes. The need for= security was high, which meant there was a tenseness in every moment one s= pent in the walled city. The dark hair elf turned to face his lover and sm= iled at him. "I know just the place=85where the water is surrounded by flo= wers, golden flowers, I think. It is perfect=85the river valley. Do you kno= w it?" "I think so=85" Glorfindel nodded as he remembered it. "We will me= et there, and you will show me all that love has to offer." And then they = kissed their first blissful kiss; long, slow and timeless, tasting deeply o= f what their future had to offer. . Second thoughts=85 The days that f= ollowed their meeting were the longest of Glorfindel's life. Never had time= moved more slowly. They had decided to meet three days later. Each would l= eave the city from separate gates, at different times and in opposite direc= tions, but wind up in the same river vale. It would work. No one would know= they were meeting, and they could have the day together to do as they wish= ed. He took it upon himself to prepare all they would need. He'd told Ecth= elion to bring only himself and his horse, while he packed his own mount wi= th provisions and comforts for the afternoon. Rising very early in the morn= ing, as was his usual habit, he harangued the kitchen staff at the House of= the Golden Flower into first, making him a large breakfast of eggs, toast = and bacon. While Glorfindel ate his ample meal, they put together a very n= ice picnic lunch for two, complete with wine, tasty sandwiches and fruits. = Nary a question was asked. He was sure they would need sustenance since it= would not be a brief meeting. That was his fervent desire. He fabricated = an excuse to leave the city riding out across Tumladen in the late morning.= They were to meet in early afternoon, and he wanted time to make ready. T= his was Ecthelion. How long Glorfindel had wanted him, he did not now know.= It had been growing in him over the years, since the long march, since the= ice when they had pulled each other along and held vigil over each other. = Neither would let the other fall to the cold. They had always had a bond, b= ut for him it had changed into something else, though he could not pinpoint= when that had occurred. He suspected Ecthelion had only just realized it. = Meanwhile, across the city in another part of town, the other half of thi= s equation paced and warred with himself, so much so that his horse snorted= and stamped in alarm. "I know=85it is not to be borne." Yield. He did no= t yield. Ecthelion of the Fountain yielded to no one. He kicked a bucket an= d yelped. Eru, that hurt! He would not go, damn it. He tumbled into the s= traw and sighed. He wanted to go, but could he yield the way Glorfindel wan= ted him to? "You will yield=85in all ways=85" His body remembered being p= ressed down by the weight of his compatriot and his desire stirred. Appare= ntly, he could. "Come, Shadow, we are going, before I lose my nerve!!" = Where the water meets the flower=85 Glorfindel sat on a large rock by the= river bank, trailing his toes in the water. It was summer, and the sun was= high in the sky. Wearing simple clothing; a homespun white shirt and leggi= ngs. He had taken his shoes off to walk in the grass and flowers. One never= got to do that in the city. It was beautiful there, but one did not feel f= ree. Surrounded by high walls, and ornate gates, one did not feel free at a= ll. He loved it here where the water was surrounded by an expanse of golde= n flowers spreading throughout the valley; where the water met the flowers.= It seemed fitting somehow. The river wound through the vale, water frigid = from mountain run-off of the snow capped peaks. Perhaps they would brave it= and swim later, if he could entice Ecthelion to do it. He had carefully p= repared everything for his friend's arrival, laying out the blanket on the = grass, chilling the wine in the river. The sun was directly overhead and he= was beginning to worry that Ecthelion would not be coming, that he had tho= ught better of it and=85 He heard a horse approach from the south and fel= t his stomach tighten. He was inexplicably nervous, as if it was all new to= him, too. Truth be told, he was not that experienced, either. There had be= en no one who really caught his affections, and he had been waiting for thi= s moment. He continued to dunk his feet in the water, trying to appear nonc= halant. Ecthelion dismounted, and slapped his stallion, sending him off to= join Glorfindel's mare. They knew each other well from patrol, so they qui= ckly settled to graze and wander. "Take off your shoes." "Pardon?" Ecthe= lion blanched at the command. "I said, take off your shoes. This is a wond= erful place to walk barefoot. The ground is soft underfoot, and the grass t= ickles your feet. It is so unlike the paved streets of the city. Try it and= see." "Ahh=85" He relaxed then and kicked off his short boots, stooping t= o peel off his socks. He could see Glorfindel's black boots on a blanket n= earby and went to place his own there. It did feel good to walk without sho= es. The ground was soft and springy, and he could feel the soft petals of t= he flowers on his skin. "I thought you might change your mind or think bet= ter of this. Perhaps I had given you too much time to think." "Almost," Ec= thelion admitted. Glorfindel squinted at him as he got up from his perch,= and he moved toward his friend with a purposefully fluid stride. He pushed= his own nervousness aside, as he drew near. "Shall I remind you of why we= are here?" He purred softly, and Ecthelion's whole body reacted to the pas= sion in his gaze. Glorfindel was stalking him and his feet felt rooted to t= he ground. "What do you--" His response was swallowed as their lips met. = Cupping Ecthelion's face gently with both hands, Glorfindel teased his love= r's mouth open. He wanted nothing between them, and he needed to taste Ecth= elion's flavor. They had no past or future. There was only now, and he mean= t to make it last forever. "I remember," Ecthelion whispered as they parte= d, slowly opening his eyes, grey irises full of longing. "I remember, " He= repeated and pulled Glorfindel in for another kiss. He wanted more, so muc= h more. He wanted it all. * * * "I used to lay watching you sleep when we= camped together on the crossing. I wanted to make sure you were breathing = and that you were not going to freeze in the night. I would stay up all nig= ht sometimes=85" Glorfindel looked down at Ecthelion to see if he was well.= His words were a whisper, a moan almost. The pain had passed and now ther= e was only pleasure between them. All those things unsaid came spilling out= of them, words of love, admissions and their future. Yes, there was that, = too. His movements were slow, gentle, even, though it was hard to stay at = that pace. His body had to be controlled until Ecthelion writhed underneath= him, flexing in frustration. "Can you not=85?" "Can I not what?" "I nee= d more=85" "I do not want to hurt you." "I am not an Elleth=85more, Glorf= indel." He leaned up to playfully nip at his lover's lips. "Give me every= thing." The Golden Flower growled and did just that as they made love on a= bed of fragrant blossoms. Stolen time=85and idle gossip It became a f= avorite pastime in the Gilded City to wonder about the love lives of its mo= st eligible warriors, and other notable citizens. Ecthelion and Glorfindel = were not above this speculation, much to their chagrin. Hopeful matchmakers= and mothers petitioned the Fountain or the Golden Flower to divine their i= nterest in a certain attractive or marriageable Elleth, eager for success, = only to be thwarted at the outset or indulged for a number of months and fi= nally dropped flat. One had to ponder how two such handsome and eloquent e= lves could be unmarried for so long. Turgon remarked loudly on that very sa= me thing, in none too polite terms, yet both of them resisted the pressure = and inclination to marry. They were happy with each other, but no one could= know that. Through the long months of the winter, they spent much time sn= eaking in and out of each other's houses, up the back stair when servants w= ere abed. It was small price to pay for a night together, cocooned in comfo= rt, indoors by the fire. In spring and summer, they would venture out of = the city, exploring the encircling mountains or simply lounging at their fa= vorite spot where the river was surrounded by flowers. Even if the flowers = were not in bloom, it was a beautiful spot to enjoy a day. Time passed, ye= ars flew by and their love deepened, though to outside appearance they were= compatriots, rivals and leaders. In private they were best friends, lovers= and mates. It became an unspoken bond between them, this knitting of their= souls, as elemental as the air, as solid as the foundations of Arda, as re= lentless as the ocean's tides. The end is come=85 In the year 510 of t= he First Age, the great city fell, to the foul dread force of Morgoth. Wick= ed beasts defiled Turgon's city and brought it down to rubble. It was betra= yed from within and attacked from the north over the Echoriath to tragic en= d. And after=85 Ecthelion found himself wandering free. He was free an= d light, and awaiting something. The pain which had been so unbearable was = gone now. His lungs had been full of water, and now he would breathe the fr= ee air in this meadow, their meadow. The yellow flowers shimmered in the st= arlight and he could walk barefoot among them. The petals were soft on the = rough soles of his feet. He could breathe again. He lay down and waited. H= e knew it would be a short time. They had agreed. He opened his eyes as he= sensed Glorfindel's approach. "I am here=85the city is=85" "I know." = "We are=85" "Together." Glorfindel's tears fell on the flowers for which= his house was named. As the lovers took their rest a while in the meadow, = the hours passed peacefully under the stars. Some time later, under the pa= le light of the moon, they followed a mountain path out of Ondolind=EB fore= ver. The End Terms: Ondolind=EB=3DGondolin Echoriath=3Dthe encircling mou= ntains around Gondolin From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1158 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17602 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2007 09:36:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2007 09:36:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2007 09:36:09 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2007 09:35:57 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2007 09:35:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2007 09:35:57 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 09:35:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: MEFA announcement: Final List of Hard-to-reach Authors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=zqHD6qTrs412V67DctfAzbMxlK2hSTqF2nhfs3iA-vJuo_an_van-B4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hey all, I am passing on another announcement from the MEFA's, if you reco= gnise someone on this list, nudge them (a side note, Tinni who's on the lis= t has been nudged and completed her nom): The nomination phase of the Midd= le-earth Fanfiction Awards is drawing to a close. Nominated authors have un= til July 22 to accept their nominations. For a full list of authors who hav= e been nominated but have not yet accepted their nomination, see: http://co= mmunity.livejournal.com/mefas/23855.html To accept a nomination an author m= ust fill out a form at our website, www.mefawards.net/MEFA2007/ . If the au= thor is unsure of their password they should contact mefasupport(at)gmail.c= om and it will be emailed to them. Once the nomination is complete, the aut= hor MUST email either their liaison or mefasupport(at)gmail.com. And all of= this needs to be done by July 22 If anyone has any questions, feel free to= email mefasupport(at)gmail.com. Marta (MEFA Admin) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1159 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94208 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2007 15:18:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2007 15:18:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2007 15:18:07 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 667245800A for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:11:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:11:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:11:32 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <55060947.20070718171132@tlen.pl> To: keiliss In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=Y7RPB25a8hOQ0_FCrIWuiCCb98pvLYn2ZZ26z0OqRoul4I0TMWw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Keiliss, k> The more convoluted, HoME-based 'other way' at least fits the line of k> succession. Fingolfin to Fingon. Fingon to Turgon. Then across to the k> other side of the family, to Finarfin's sons (all dead) and grandsons k> - or great-grandsons, depending on where you place Orodreth. I've k> tended to support it purely for its logic. However, I'd love to see a k> Silm-based explanation that held water. Anyone? Very good point of view. Also I wish to see any quotation of JRRT himself writing that Gil-galad was Fingon's son. As far as I know it's pure creation of Christopher, his own 'gap filler' or AU approach or whatever one calls it, not JRRT's word. Am I right? Haven't red all letters from the list in this topic, yet. So it's fanon provided by the closest person to JRRT in this business ;) Still not canon, no matter how close Christopher is not John. My canon is LotR and post LotR HoME, the newer and more coherent idea, the better. All apart the most contrary ideas from the latest legendary phase with Arda rounded, which was never finished unfortunately. Yet I tend to have my vision of some events anyway, sometimes contrary to HoME. Hobbit and BoLT belonging to the oldest phase of Tolkien's legendary, mostly abandoned are for me fairy tales not worth bothering in the description of canon (so few ideas are important from that period), unless to add some colour to the world (or magical descriptions of Aman's look for example, but even magic has changed since that period of legendary). I'm partial because I've never really red BoLT and don't like it's fairy tale elves. Last but not least - Fingon is mine. HOWGH ;P Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1160 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50559 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2007 16:17:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2007 16:17:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2007 16:17:51 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2.go2.pl [193.17.41.42]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 28A3F230223 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:17:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1526748074 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:05:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:05:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:05:50 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <192967698.20070718170550@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ho-RUNNELEeUL8YIKxcfIdLZwrlHpm4j3IKwg2RwvQp6Lw-TDVg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, r> This leaves the House of Finarfin... Orodreth then? r> Would Galadriel want to rule as a Queen? She is way too silent in the Silm,doesn't she? Fled away or hid, not in character for the wise and bold Queen of L�rien. r> I don't think both would contest that decision with the might of Gondolin shown during the r> Nirnaeth. I don't think elves were so eager to rule as mortal people are. Apart F�anorians. They just passed the crown to Turgon in a ceremonial sense - because what way he could really rule the Noldor if he stayed in hiding,without any contact? Passing orders by eagles? Rofl. But also he was safe, so the ceremonial king - the symbol - was safe. Of course the safety was illusion as we know. And I just saw the fall of his white city at Tolk Folk, so I know what I'm talking about ;) Of course I'm no historian, nor base on any research, I just don't treat the crown of Noldor as anything more than a symbol since Fingon's death and elves being parted and staying in hiding. No united Noldorin Kingdom anymore. If it was united and ruled by one before - as I see every little kingdom and fortress had it's own laws and cussstoms ;) and the highest king was ceremonial anyway. If that was different, Orodreth being under Fingon would have to send his army to aid Nirnaeth etc. It wasn't really working that way and Fingon ruled only his own domain. r> Remember that during the Mereth Aderthad (Feast of Reuniting), Maedhros willingly gave the rulership over the Noldor r> to Fingolfin's house. It was long before the feast as I remember. It was when they finally met on the banks of Mithrim lake, after Medhros healed enough to walk. Eventually I may be messing canon with Ithilwen's fan fic ;) But I'm sure it was earlier, before Noldor took lands to rule etc. r> Technically, which makes Maeglin's motives so interesting, even Maeglin could have claimed high kingship being r> Aredhel's son and being a member of the House of Fingolfin. Oh the r> bunnies! And it would be interesting, if he only survived and didn't betray Gondolin in the first place. Oh bunnies :D Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1161 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45346 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2007 16:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2007 16:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2007 16:27:48 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12.go2.pl [193.17.41.142]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 42D4E230D5A for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:04:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8DF83E80B3 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:55:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:55:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:55:23 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1672762216.20070718175523@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=LTj_3FzEiBMPBtgYQ5hndc22lTZ8GOZT9TpVo6BIL3gEcBMgTGo X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle r> No, but the thing is... he got the chance to fix at least 2 times r> over: a) with the revised edition of the Silmarillion published in r> 1999 (one of the copies that I own and were several changes have been r> made in the text, also canonwise with Numenorean leadership) and r> Children of H�rin in 2007. POME was published in 1996 (UT in 1980), r> yet he maintained Gil-Galad being Fingon's son. That simply doesn't r> make any sense to me. Why publish a second and revised edition of the r> Silm in 1999 when a book in 1996 says something different. It doesn't r> add up to me. I usually balance HOME bits, one mentioning against many r> others that state the opposite... hmmm. I believe that is the answer - cited by Keiliss: "**There can be no doubt that this was my father's last word on the subject; but nothing of this late and radically altered conception ever touched the existing narratives, and it was obviously impossible to introduce it into the published Silmarillion. It would nonetheless have been very much better to have left Gil-galad's parentage obscure................ " Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1162 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5499 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2007 16:33:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2007 16:33:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2007 16:33:28 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.cb3.15b61210 (40521) for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:32:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:32:43 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1184776363" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=dUEjWpavNHIsEiFQeVSRx_LGsnq9qjA2H6VQgV_27jVsx0I9egFp X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1184776363 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/18/2007 11:19:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, siriell= e@tlen.pl writes: It was long before the feast as I remember. It was when= they finally met on the banks of Mithrim lake, after Medhros healed enoug= h to walk. Eventually I may be messing canon with Ithilwen's fan fic ;) Bu= t I'm sure it was earlier, before Noldor took lands to rule etc. That i= s my understanding as well and huge plot point in the story cycle I am cu= rrently working on that it took place early at Lake Mithrim.I just wish I = could find a justification for moving up the Feast of Reuniting in time. I= suppose one could argue that elves do things slow. But I suspect the rea= l point of hosting the Mereth Aderthad when it was held was not just to c= elebrate the reunification of the Noldor, but given the various others wh= o came, to attempt a reunification on a much broader scale. "Thither= came many of the chieftains and people of Fingolfin and Finrod; and of t= he sons of F=EBanor Maedhros and Maglor, with warriors of the eastern Mar= ch; and there came also great numbers of the Grey-elves, wanderers of the = woods of Beleriand and folk of the Havens, with C=EDrdan their lord. Ther= e came even Green-elves from Ossiriand, the Land of Seven Rivers, far off= under the walls of the Blue Mountains; but out of Doriath there came but= two messengers, Mablung and Daeron, bearing greetings from the King." = So the postponement would be appropriate until there could be much wider = attendance. Oshun ************************************** Get a sneak= peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1184776363 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 7/18/2007 = 11:19:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes:
It was long before the feast as I remember. It was w= hen they finally met on
the banks of Mithrim lake, after Medhros heal= ed enough to walk.
Eventually I may be messing canon with Ithilwen's = fan fic ;) But I'm
sure it was earlier, before Noldor took lands to r= ule etc.
That is my understa= nding as well and huge plot point in the story cycle I am currently workin= g on that it took place early at Lake Mithrim.I just wish I could find a j= ustification for moving up the Feast of Reuniting in time. I suppose one c= ould argue that elves do things slow. But I suspect the real point of host= ing the Mereth Aderthad when it was held was not just to celebrate the reu= nification of the Noldor, but given the various others who came, to attempt= a reunification on a much broader scale.
 
<= P class=3DSilmtext style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">"Thither came many of the chieftains and people of Fingolfin and Fin= rod; and of the sons of F=EBanor Maedhros and Maglor, with warriors of the= eastern March; and there came also great numbers of the Grey-elves, wande= rers of the woods of Beleriand and folk of the Havens, with C=EDrdan their= lord. There came even Green-elves from Ossiriand, the Land of Seven River= s, far off under the walls of the Blue Mountains; but out of Doriath there = came but two messengers, Mablung and Daeron, bearing greetings from the K= ing."

 
So the post= ponement would be appropriate until there could be much wider attendance. =
 
Oshun



Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
-------------------------------1184776363-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1163 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45118 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2007 16:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2007 16:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2007 16:39:11 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [193.17.41.74]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 419622309A2 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:56:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC41658010 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:46:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:46:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:46:29 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <5210610809.20070718174629@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=aeP2fYqX2dxoaSP7tZV2GKjFzAzPdfxf561mEJYxfzwhPhOzJB0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle r> But I can see the reasoning of the professor and Christopher to have r> Gil-galad as the son of Fingon, especially with every work out there, r> in the indexes of the Silm, Children of H�rin �nd Unfinised Tales r> Gil-galad ends up as Fingon's son. That can't be a mistake somehow. r> The librarian in me keeps on saying that. The stubborn cynic in me says that it was simply easy to leave it that way since they hastily made Fingon his daddy in the Silmarillion. Children of Hurin brought many hopes and ended up as a fast edition to feed budget a little as long as movie charmed folks are eager to buy anything with Tolkien on. It's not edition targeted onto hard core fans digging footnotes, it was made for the movie public. Foreword and empty, incomplete genealogies prove it. r> Well the professor said that elven women and men didn't differ that r> much from each other, so why couldn't they rule? That is a good question. Probably because his writings in general feeling are tradition, patriarchy above the egalitarity. Boys are fighting and girls make tapestries hidden in castles, apart some exceptions to the rule. r> Queen Nerdanel, hmmm that sounds intriguing. :) Exactly, she should keep the crown in Aman. I really like her speaking in the House of F�anor name during the royal council before the War of Wrath in Deborah's fic. But F�anor deserted Nerdanel, divorced, so with that she has lost her claims to the crown, I guess. At least in his eyes. In fact Indis should rule after Finw�'s death. Especially immortal queen and wife to immortal king who - in theory - could come back from Mandos in any time and rule again. So why did queen lost her crown with her husband's death? Only she was a Vanya and F�an�ro would never accept such ruler... Anyway these books tell of boys fighting boys, not queens apart some exceptions to the rule ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1164 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80859 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2007 16:56:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2007 16:56:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2007 16:56:02 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8D343E805C for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:55:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:55:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:55:18 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <16410046100.20070718185518@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=dP2bAPe9G_aO5WOcWBPGTqhfv6h_BKmycr3YWwMvtFkJacdsxJc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> But I suspect the real point of hosting the Mereth Aderthad when it was held was not just to hac> celebrate the reunification of the Noldor, but given the various hac> others who came, to attempt a reunification on a much broader hac> scale. I agree.I also think that they simply wanted to 'build up' or set their homes first before having any feasts. It had to be held somewhere nicer than a simple wooden room built by refugees to avoid bad weather ;) When Fingolfin holds it he is king in full meaning - has got crown,land, representative buildings and land. He is not poor refugee and Helcarax� survivor anymore. And even if he is the Highest King nobody listens to him to attack Angband - that was his early idea if I remember well, but none of elves wanted to move sitting comfortably in their domains while Ard Galen was becoming the green land. They woke up with Bragollach, but it was too late... What I wanted to say - one more reason to treat the title of the Highest King as ceremonial, for there may be a council of kings and lords,not kings ruled by one king. Other way he would be a king and the rest his subjects. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1165 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21964 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2007 17:28:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2007 17:28:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2007 17:28:15 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12.go2.pl [193.17.41.142]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 23FCF230C7F for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:28:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B173E8058 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:59:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:59:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:59:07 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1019557109.20070718185907@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=feJjQ23viGOzx-YV2B4OT1qKv7Xi4clMSwP5xcmeUPacyhaWYK0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle hac> But I suspect the real point of hac> hosting the Mereth Aderthad when it was held was not just to hac> celebrate the reunification of the Noldor, but given the various hac> others who came, to attempt a reunification on a much broader hac> scale. Also to celebrate the siege of Angband - am I right? It was in the times of newly gained peace. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1166 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18520 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2007 17:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2007 17:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2007 17:54:16 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12.go2.pl [193.17.41.142]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 24C31230D03 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:03:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904BA3E805A for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:49:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:49:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:49:39 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1019238764.20070718174939@tlen.pl> To: keiliss In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=jtfZdBEqnNTFIjboSEcwgBEQA0ZgCaD8zMdchR9Ki7sXnlIwbhk X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Keiliss, k> **Much closer analysis of the admit-tedly extremely complex k> material than I had made twenty years ago makes it clear that k> Gil-galad as the son of Fingon (see XI.56, 243) was an ephemeral k> idea. ** Thank you for this one! Although I've red this essay I've skipped this line. This clears all for me, no more questions. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1167 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68112 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2007 20:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2007 20:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2007 20:37:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2007 20:37:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2007 20:37:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:37:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <192967698.20070718170550@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Gil-Galad's daddy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=utQwvOdK92MEuQNgG6gwSLCErOyxeQuDlAOsZSYzRasGTKi06g8YpHI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai Rhapsody, > > r> This leaves the House of Finarfin... Orodret= h then? > r> Would Galadriel want to rule as a Queen? > > She is way too = silent in the Silm,doesn't she? Fled away or hid, not > in character for th= e wise and bold Queen of L=F3rien. I think she took a long time to come to= age somehow. >> I don't think both would contest that decision with the = might of >> Gondolin shown during the Nirnaeth. > > I don't think elves = were so eager to rule as mortal people are. > Apart F=EBanorians. They jus= t passed the crown to Turgon in a > ceremonial sense - because what way he= could really rule the Noldor >if he stayed in hiding,without any contact?= Passing orders by eagles? > Rofl. LOL, wasn't it what Hurin said, somethi= ng alike that that Turgon would serve as a symbol to his people? >> Rememb= er that during the Mereth Aderthad (Feast of Reuniting), >>Maedhros willin= gly gave the rulership over the Noldor to Fingolfin's >> house. > > It was= long before the feast as I remember. It was when they finally > met on the= banks of Mithrim lake, after Medhros healed enough to > walk. Yeah, I we= nt back to the Silm and I had that order mucked up in that post (not in my = vignette thank goodness, phew), I looked into this 8 months ago so I was go= ing by memory. Maedhros comes back from Angband, he passes on kingship to F= ingolfin, the elves go scouting, Angrod visits Doriath as a messenger on be= half of the Noldor and after that there is a spat at a council at Mithrim. = >From that moment Maedhros and his brothers leave the north to start living = in the East: "But Maedhros restrained his brothers, and they departed from= the council, and soon afterwards they left Mithrim and went eastward beyon= d Aros to the wide lands about the Hill of Himring. That region was named t= hereafter the March of Maedhros; for northwards there was little defence of= hill or river against assault from Angband. There Maedhros and his brother= s kept watch, gathering all such people as would come to them, and they had= few dealings with their kinsfolk westward, save at need." > Eventually I = may be messing canon with Ithilwen's fan fic ;) But I'm > sure it was earli= er, before Noldor took lands to rule etc. Yeah, there I mixed things up :c= ) >> Technically, which makes Maeglin's motives so interesting, even >>= Maeglin could have claimed high kingship being Aredhel's son and >> being= a member of the House of Fingolfin. Oh the bunnies! > > And it would be i= nteresting, if he only survived and didn't betray > Gondolin in the first p= lace. Oh bunnies :D Maybe he had a parachute ;) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1168 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27049 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2007 23:53:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2007 23:53:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.180) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2007 23:53:19 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so3321871pyb for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:53:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=gkuCqA8aLqmDvNhfuUpbqc14rT8uP6EAj4u6+16G8rjcMCTih5Kplf+0sGMq/fnCLs12zCQx8OT/7+HCJEh32LsYdcdrAS7iacg6RB4nX21i1WkxahH4odYWznQ3/bHCb3RJxRlH9M4GpsGCbYEGR2YaDXtVebmLWNjPh1gjLb4= Received: by 10.35.103.6 with SMTP id f6mr6814579pym.1185234799414; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.88.8 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:53:19 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_88278_11547219.1185234799370" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Software Upgrade on Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=qTd4vx0DzworaJnHn7k6GzvUVUs4JALsZhrWCBz2oKcuhfIka_VK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_88278_11547219.1185234799370-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1169 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56134 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2007 23:00:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2007 23:00:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.180) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2007 23:00:43 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id d32so15220pye for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:00:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=G2l6dMfQ3yjxrQKkibvR1NaUTJ/wCS8tKNZ4wlVL3ZPlsPib+Z/CLbIaaegO19RdFLrYp6M9sEDyaVk08zYayXFkzGtMiE0a2TV39xn2jhL+s92eEjR7KRv1lLExEas4QK71L72ccxwd2WC3nr7Q/3rj+xBWq8Tc6sfj25PT0PM= Received: by 10.35.128.1 with SMTP id f1mr8526320pyn.1185316519651; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?66.61.110.183? ( [66.61.110.183]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 7sm28461nzn.2007.07.24.15.35.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46A67E26.8010208@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:33:10 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.5 (Windows/20070716) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Marta Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: RSS feed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=-EzL8fW5ZNoeZm2ZilY6yMjG9dIGQXNCQiWn0KpmjrS9Nb9DDmbXDw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, I wanted to let you know that the RSS feed is behaving wonky. In my reader it is retrieving multiple copies of each item in the feed. I cleaned it out earlier this afternoon, and there are 220 items in it now. I think (though I'm not sure) that it's downloading a new copy of the last twenty updated stories every time my RSS reader checks for new stories. I don't know that this is a site problem, and don't stress over it if I'm the only one with a problem, but since it started around the time of the site update, I thought I'd mention it. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1170 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66882 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2007 01:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2007 01:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.179) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2007 01:03:23 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u52so61793pyb for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:03:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=uMMIp4742vHO6DNdyBkeNqiKsXMjNJLIya8hawM/2io+dCUcmuEoEm5XIoIfke6f/oiEedPgs1z307TBe4gNrEVQLJDNcqvcZ3nYsFwkYIY9AjF7d4ld1QZ5TSGagpmvkvy/tJZb6JQmAQm7Ew1tgK6x8Xw34cFDONPATFPgxUo= Received: by 10.35.87.10 with SMTP id p10mr8662784pyl.1185324803015; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.88.8 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:53:22 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <46A67E26.8010208@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_99890_19093304.1185324802977" References: <46A67E26.8010208@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] RSS feed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uQqsDKchPp_G8tsDwCGuGvMLeYQrxMfo3VsceFA6XExYxuuw7DJ1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_99890_19093304.1185324802977-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1171 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1552 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2007 08:40:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2007 08:40:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.213) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2007 08:40:22 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2007 08:40:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2007 08:40:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2007 08:40:09 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:40:08 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: RSS feed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=N-f3k_fEgT5iBl6gFepXwWvQ88C66CyBnfarsHEoWg1VlB06OuguClw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Thanks, Marta. It probably has to do with the update. (= Anyone else > here use the RSS? Having problems? Please drop me a note whe= ther yes > or no! :) I'll head over to the eFiction site to see if anyone = else > has reported a bug with it yet. If not, I may be the first. :) But = > I'll try to get it fixed ASAP. I haven't come around to subscribe to th= e feed until this morning, so I keep an eye on it if something strange happ= ens. So far, in sharp reader, it only lists a new story once. Looks ok to m= e. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1172 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34782 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 02:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 02:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.183) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 02:03:06 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f31so2594995pyh for ; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:03:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=BGB3t+q8rnTWBS1xCLJVnQwoJSx0YcP7KXHjZ98ynSaMaCpy+1S7yBFpxSlPrDREoF+BH82gPSgAoUbz51DU5CcSZnr/AOdC19cWmhccV0MxQb6X3TtZxPB1JuHrZ/mxYUN1EOjyGWgqXnQulLFJvLjbrvIpnmqJK8Iyk4tifnw= Received: by 10.35.21.9 with SMTP id y9mr8035008pyi.1185760983918; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:03:03 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21428_26614034.1185760983891" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=y5tEu0OJhQTT7D8YvWdnqtchzQgTOvujXek6eqXOJHl_8-gTldON X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_21428_26614034.1185760983891-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1173 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88514 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 03:37:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 03:37:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.176) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 03:37:55 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f31so4547966pyh for ; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:27:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hr9JZ7oAxnXTjoMdoutPk2/IPCxbBpYc07Mx3u1bq9aIOorpNMApSNeu1FztvUmjm4a8GBAKr/HNQroAvtuCO+pSC1p1zQNOw32ge83cKBOP1HqmRPNdm98qPzTqMH/OVvIT3IwkQn1azDUgBebgWb+xS7+WA020PAodOdPXjGc= Received: by 10.35.128.1 with SMTP id f1mr17357679pyn.1185765471127; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?66.61.110.183? ( [66.61.110.183]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 38sm7657450nza.2007.07.29.20.17.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46AD57DB.1010401@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:15:39 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.5 (Windows/20070716) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Marta Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=EEjRuTioyRo4jE6ZuYjS7S-00P2F50rGltc0wd6SLmXJl6MmaIin7A X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > July--and Seven in '07--is coming to a close, but we still have two more > characters left to recognize! To end the month, today we honor Nerdanel, > a character dismissed and forgotten by many, but nonetheless both a > fascinating and influential part of the House of Fëanor. > [snip] > Tomorrow's character is Celebrimbor. I hope that you enjoy the final > days of the Seven in '07 project! > Dawn, I just wanted to say.... you, and everyone else, are (is?) wonderful for coordinating this. I have learned so much, and of course been entertained. Thank you. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1174 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72848 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 03:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 03:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.136.170) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 03:50:51 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.d42.ea57c14 (14502) for ; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:46:58 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1185767218" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=vZQaFFbvmvFyUioK5Iz-ggay7fGXVhfpLCPzDlCRtL-__NH3MRbo X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1185767218 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I so agree with Marta. Beautiful presentation on Nerdanel. Everything fit together beautifully. I can't wait to see Celebrimbor either. Oshun ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1185767218 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I so agree with M= arta. Beautiful presentation on Nerdanel. Everything fit together beautifu= lly. I can't wait to see Celebrimbor either.
 
= Oshun



Get a sneak peek o= f the all-new AOL.com.
<= /BODY> -------------------------------1185767218-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1175 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12962 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 12:53:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 12:53:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.177) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 12:53:49 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so2971621pyb for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 05:53:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=hxZcmUuAPc4iLCwycIp249XLUTsCEG/z3U44onGNw5L9Dh3Et91IvA+CrUX4kQlVa7gJFK5UlGS/g2NGmMZ83aPJ/L0kRusbTLHw+8EJ0BC/QysrCCC24qLTfNhrxKCuJdi6nMqVZYlZBOVRML9HovNAEpRrUA8dVkjNyQOo2CE= Received: by 10.35.85.1 with SMTP id n1mr18056744pyl.1185800022200; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 05:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 05:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:53:42 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <46AD57DB.1010401@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_25954_32907196.1185800022070" References: <46AD57DB.1010401@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=_yM8VrDziHXDuCi-n0PDqPNVBYW2iC-LhZBe6-mtAzGVfmoX9xDu X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_25954_32907196.1185800022070-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1176 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18414 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 13:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 13:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.23) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 13:29:42 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2007 13:29:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2007 13:29:05 -0000 Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:29:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=SCitTcARqusP9VRml2OEt93MImzg55qlpgcNdZFJS5SWolkvVwByx3PN X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 Please allow me to add my appreciation of the Seven in '07 tribute to Marta= and oshun's accolades. This is a wonderful compendium that highlights th= e impressive depth of creativity wielded by the artists and writers who fr= equent this site. Moving beyond July's tribute, the SWG site as a whole = is great! It's a pleasure to see it evolving, and it's more than evident = that it is a true labor of love on your part, Dawn. Well done! :^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1177 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38896 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 15:31:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 15:31:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.176) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 15:31:09 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u52so3452483pyb for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:31:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=RrTh6LAMPUkuiquulphFtvHNoTLRQU8yNCvZGe3nJ7zX0Ajnl7Q/z5rKgBSmVN7D4Yze5X505Bo+JjTELUb4rHXnnGg7DkQ46PC/nDaPcmM3JpurIR0qdxGsMoZe/GKPptNjIEOakRhNN9IuALbLnCiD6PEFUPj5hbVJsLMQyR8= Received: by 10.35.84.9 with SMTP id m9mr9754893pyl.1185809467580; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:31:07 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_28224_22833094.1185809467452" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Happy Birthday, SWG! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8jAA10LJ3g0FvEyhjohjD59_M_PFh0zMNqUuRlGSRzDG3APbjgME X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_28224_22833094.1185809467452-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1178 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89179 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 16:48:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 16:48:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.119) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 16:48:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 27941 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jul 2007 16:47:25 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lRB9M20VM1n8562xRE0KQdf5ZcXpkWDKRvyS3MrjsVpJ0wlafdPY9TPz2T.qocbbdXa_KwZLDt17PTl_GwS7gElcXesUjFHw29757JT4hCYgWawZbfdVPul6.59SCg-- Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:47:25 PDT Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:47:25 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <46AD57DB.1010401@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1010699381-1185814045=:25724" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <346244.25724.qm@web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=RkKE2HPgsSIjSBVls5BcmDBsmPJRzu24_9f7LE7wF3I-SKiAOeESonw X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1010699381-1185814045=:25724 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I second, no third? - fourth? - that! Beautiful pages and wonderful snippets and art! Marta wrote: Dawn, I just wanted to say.... you, and everyone else, are (is?) wonderful for coordinating this. I have learned so much, and of course been entertained. Thank you. Marta ~T�rion --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. --0-1010699381-1185814045=:25724 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I second, no third? - fourth? - that! Beautiful pages and wonderful snippets and art!

Marta wrote:
Dawn, I just wanted to say.... you, and everyone else, are (is?)
wonderful for coordinating this. I have learned so much, and of course
been entertained. Thank you.

Marta



~T�rion

Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. --0-1010699381-1185814045=:25724-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1179 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80643 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 16:56:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 16:56:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.118) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 16:56:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 25765 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jul 2007 16:55:25 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: L_K0mdcVM1kvKhBvUQPrdNpKxl_B61q41EFbEfTvK.3Zcjp1cSb9mhZq2.qwn7kkNkcByOYMvcK6LizqjkXd1rhpR7pLiJVnlWkB7u4XulkEZR0w9PHrHLU7b3mrMQ-- Received: from [70.104.18.95] by web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:55:24 PDT Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:55:24 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1601138847-1185814524=:25506" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <9116.25506.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy Birthday, SWG! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=qwE6vASw0XwUhDbQ9YPMDJfVH3xPFPgtC0pXmvHS5cXFO0m_VCYYXhU X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1601138847-1185814524=:25506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >So grab a party hat, a cocktail weenie and a cup of Coke (with or without rum ;), and join the party! This sounds just like a certain Finrod's kind of fun! Mind if I borrow him? (I can't believe I'm asking to borrow your blonde!Finrod muse...tell him not to get any Ideas.) 0:) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. --0-1601138847-1185814524=:25506 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >So grab a party hat, a cocktail weenie and a cup of Coke (with or without rum ;), and join the party!

This sounds just like a certain Finrod's kind of fun! Mind if I borrow him? (I can't believe I'm asking to borrow your blonde!Finrod muse...tell him not to get any Ideas.) 0:)


~T�rion

Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. --0-1601138847-1185814524=:25506-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1180 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7336 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 17:26:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 17:26:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 17:26:17 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a29so3353192pyi for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:25:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=qEoD6TgUQT+l0DqlCy51fwk++K1X20E91inRuuyrRGsMMq4JkFNUnq3+NXFIg27Cez4FA20QzI/ZayV725tz3S5/hV6qQ+fCyRRUhz1gmPpkIQhHiScypLaeRIkaw6VG6AyPWGXMjTgFGirptVAkz9TIY484p/hPWclKT6bXBxw= Received: by 10.35.72.1 with SMTP id z1mr18457934pyk.1185816340352; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:25:40 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9116.25506.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_30218_25819907.1185816340286" References: <9116.25506.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy Birthday, SWG! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rPyGNq8wiCcDRMykafCemAeYdKo3QHuWiAZ8FUU5NPoaD7NFIrZs X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_30218_25819907.1185816340286-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1181 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99407 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 22:05:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 22:05:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.130) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 22:05:40 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2007 22:05:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2007 22:05:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2007 22:05:03 -0000 Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:05:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=nXnumRi4uFuuZsEzsNT8Kp_1Xoa9CyGzFIgiVsMZDIl2KSQdzDHQubY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > July--and Seven in '07--is coming to a close, but we st= ill have two > more characters left to recognize! To end the month, today w= e honor > Nerdanel, a character dismissed and forgotten by many, but > no= netheless both a fascinating and influential part of the House of > F=C3= =ABanor. > > Nerdanel's page--illustrated by the words and images of some = of the >fandom's most talented authors and artists--can be found here: > = > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/nerdanel.php Oh yay! I= will freely admit I've been checking the seven in '07 quite eum fanaticall= y since the 24th. The f5 button has been much used to see if something was = posted (this being said, the patience F=EBanorian image surely fits me or c= an I blame Celegorm?). Yay! It looks great again with artwork I know and s= tories I read before :) > Tomorrow's character is Celebrimbor. I hope tha= t you enjoy the final > days of the Seven in '07 project! I truly enjoyed = this :) Thanks Dawn, for your hard work. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1182 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53489 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 22:25:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 22:25:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 22:25:01 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B63074807C for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:24:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:24:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:24:23 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1509887317.20070731002423@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=8n1Pmu2gDFaBEFJbWRrOrTb7QqHfl7NSitQ1_5gYWWRB9E1N6_o X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Silmmaniacs, r> the patience F�anorian image surely fits me or can I blame Celegorm?). This was great idea, one of my impatient F�anorian friends even got it on her walloper right now XD I used to see it a lot,either, though mostly in the beginning when I knew that another character should appear soon and I leave in GMT +21, so I had to wait for another day in USA... ;) >> Tomorrow's character is Celebrimbor. I hope that you enjoy the final >> days of the Seven in '07 project! I did enjoy it a lot and still have to discover more since a lot of texts is new for me :) Great project Dawn! Can we count one more compilations like this,Dawn? For Maitimo said: "Now what new tales and songs will Dawn let to sound, and whom shall they appreciate first? Fingon the valiant?" Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1183 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10071 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 22:32:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 22:32:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 22:32:40 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c75.1348f89c (41810) for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:31:51 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_c75.1348f89c.33dfc0d7_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=YqMQTW4bhUQskVyt37B2MAwGci-Vn_5fK5Cam4bOVhDqclIaPRnV X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun --part1_c75.1348f89c.33dfc0d7_boundary Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="part1_c75.1348f89c.33dfc0d7_rel_boundary" --part1_c75.1348f89c.33dfc0d7_rel_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="c75.1348f89c_alt_bound" --c75.1348f89c_alt_bound Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/2007 5:25:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: Can we count one more compilations like this,Dawn? For Maitimo said: "Now what new tales and songs will Dawn let to sound, and whom shall they appreciate first? Fingon the valiant?" Oh, my! What an idea (deep heaving sigh on my part). I would help. Here's a silly photomanip below. I'm trying to create my favorite elves now using my own family photos. This one is Fingon the Boy. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --c75.1348f89c_alt_bound Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = <= /HEAD>
In a message dated 7/30/2007 5:25:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, siri= elle@tlen.pl writes:
Can we count one= more compilations like this,Dawn? For Maitimo said: "Now what
new ta= les and songs will Dawn let to sound, and whom shall they
appreciate = first? Fingon the valiant?"

<= DIV>Oh, my! What an idea (deep heaving sigh on my part). I would help. Here= 's a silly photomanip below. I'm trying to create my favorite elves now us= ing my own family photos. This one is Fingon the Boy.
 



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--c75.1348f89c_alt_bound-- --part1_c75.1348f89c.33dfc0d7_rel_boundary-- --part1_c75.1348f89c.33dfc0d7_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1184 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5666 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 23:08:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 23:08:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 23:08:12 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B78D58016 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:44:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:44:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:44:53 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <979640123.20070731004453@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ko3suJ1QpvP8lOGr3FRToea8SXJq6skTjQa6bcWqBlsMtQcHDGk X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> Oh, my! What an idea (deep heaving sigh on my part). I hac> would help. Here's a silly photomanip below. I'm trying to hac> create my favorite elves now using my own family photos. This hac> one is Fingon the Boy. And he is a nice boy :) He must be small boy here? Now you need to make an adult, I'm curious! Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1185 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20442 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2007 23:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2007 23:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.136.170) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2007 23:27:44 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.d50.e627494 (41810) for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:13:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:13:51 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1185837231" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=KZKObsNCG1-I8MxEw3Ssl2knsZCXhuE6-UWrzBrJKEPobEffb7b3 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1185837231 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/2007 6:09:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: And he is a nice boy :) He must be small boy here? Now you need to make an adult, I'm curious! A very small boy. No adult in my family has the right look. LOL Well maybe if I could take my son turn his brown eyes blue and his blond hair black... My daughter has already been subjected to the indignity of being photomanipped as various elves, including Luthien. (See what I mean about silly?) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1185837231 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/30/2007 6:09:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl write= s:
And he is a nice boy :) He must be s= mall boy here? Now you need to make an adult, I'm curious!
A very small boy. No adult in my fam= ily has the right look. LOL Well maybe if I could take my son turn his bro= wn eyes blue and his blond hair black... My daughter has already been subj= ected to the indignity of being photomanipped as various elves, including = Luthien. (See what I mean about silly?)



Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
-------------------------------1185837231-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1186 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79736 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 01:15:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 01:15:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 01:15:16 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a29so3539957pyi for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=R6wMp/boZ7L3C6FVfmhRH+5LHwFHGn9E6YAW9UXB879+4O3jPFaUISCNNRZKAePD/t+pu67/FxjlXWtDJr1MkF28GliJnQLSpBLyOsMV5+yh66SvtNJxzaJ+MUUtFA5cbO8tThOEZe5NbAqH+XUHK3Tli8pQB9CH5Q4ZI3FUF34= Received: by 10.35.70.17 with SMTP id x17mr19083158pyk.1185844516203; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:15:16 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_34313_16661129.1185844516134" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Seven in '07: Celebrimbor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uusauCMk5RNRaT5hd8a8xfzYdbnkp9zn-iI5xFc8zN8fHOakNWiv X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_34313_16661129.1185844516134-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1187 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72896 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 08:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 08:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 08:59:46 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 08:59:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 08:59:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 08:59:15 -0000 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:59:15 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=QLrA-pXwF5DKNk2jBeJT8403wD1rRo0BrM050CKpne0btoFxt-mjFQc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > In a message dated 7/30/2007 5:25:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, > si= rielle@... writes: > >> Can we count one more compilations like this,Dawn= ? For Maitimo >> said: "Now what new tales and songs will Dawn let to sou= nd, and >> whom shall they appreciate first? Fingon the valiant?" > > Oh= , my! What an idea (deep heaving sigh on my part). I would help. > Here's = a silly photomanip below. I'm trying to create my favorite > elves now us= ing my own family photos. This one is Fingon the Boy. Can you upload the = picture in the files section? Pretty please with a cherry on top? The pictu= re doesn't show up in the post on the site here... Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1188 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57662 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 11:04:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 11:04:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 11:04:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 34334 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2007 11:04:04 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: urPoYRwVM1nmAdTTYt5g8wgzSIHL.FgKUlMy.n01y7OJo1nEKycOAWAq9ixLgsCQB5m8ISQFu2BDiUFz28MdKFCb7eKDijE.loE.PmjdD6XCYQlt4b4- Received: from [75.183.97.25] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 04:04:03 PDT Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 04:04:03 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-594616034-1185879843=:31381" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <58356.31381.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Seven in '07: Celebrimbor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=6OF7gywuNnv7wTbJssDPw6U5gCtazhLI3DD4HzpPE9NJg76QaQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-594616034-1185879843=:31381 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You did a great job on this Dawn. Three cheers for the 'Gund! Wooohooo! And yay! Celebrimbor got his own page! Dawn Felagund wrote: Well, all you impatient Feanatics, the Seven in '07 project is finally posted in its entirety. Celebrimbor's entry may be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/celebrimbor.php And the entire compilation may be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php Again, I owe so many thanks to those of you who helped with this project, contributed your talents, and read along each day and gave such enthusiastic support. I could not have done it alone. (Trust me! ;) I'm in the process of putting together a complete list of contributors, so that will be ready in the next few days. Thanks again and best wishes to all, Dawn F. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --0-594616034-1185879843=:31381 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You did a great job on this Dawn. Three cheers for the 'Gund! Wooohooo!

And yay! Celebrimbor got his own page!

Dawn Felagund wrote:
Well, all you impatient Feanatics, the Seven in '07 project is finally posted in its entirety. Celebrimbor's entry may be found here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/celebrimbor.php

And the entire compilation may be found here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php

Again, I owe so many thanks to those of you who helped with this project, contributed your talents, and read along each day and gave such enthusiastic support. I could not have done it alone. (Trust me! ;)

I'm in the process of putting together a complete list of contributors, so that will be ready in the next few days.

Thanks again and best wishes to all,
Dawn F.

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --0-594616034-1185879843=:31381-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1189 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70499 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 11:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 11:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.210) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 11:21:43 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n31.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 11:21:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 11:21:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 11:21:11 -0000 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:21:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Seven in '07: Celebrimbor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=suRWREM3bphmqgvJf6YE71SK85zeodtizjtK71kJgytSrVU3ghnW4uw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Well, all you impatient Feanatics, the Seven in '07 pro= ject is > finally posted in its entirety. Celebrimbor's entry may be found= > here: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07/celebrimbo= r.php Yay! *runs off to read it* > And the entire compilation may be fou= nd here: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php > > Ag= ain, I owe so many thanks to those of you who helped with this > project, = contributed your talents, and read along each day and gave > such enthusia= stic support. I could not have done it alone. (Trust > me! ;) :c) This wa= s a great project. Maybe we could do the fall of Gondolin next? I am not a = specific writer if that bit of canon, but it might be a nice idea... Rhaps= ody Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1190 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75295 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 14:02:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 14:02:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 14:02:59 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96683E806C for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:02:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:02:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:02:25 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <992239822.20070731160225@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Resent-from: Sirielle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-Id: <20070731140227.B96683E806C@poczta.o2.pl> Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:02:27 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: stories_of_arda@yahoogroups.com Subject: Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=fUJkfBGeKCZ_bz3tFk7K0GPLiiQPADUCx-gN2nnszphM80RvW4U X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai folks, I'm just packing and leaving for a few days, but I thought I'll take here a small debate I've had with Rhapsody once - and we've never finished. As drawings, I often start debates and they become never ending WIPs, either. So - this time it's not about elves, but Valar. Also on another group someone started to talk about Valar and it reminded me that dropped discussion. Hehe, the second part of the topic is one of my believes about Valarin bodies ;) Though this detail might not be true regarding Melkor in some moments, but let's focus on more serious questions. I wonder what do you all think - was Melkor an absolute evil or not? And what is absolute evil if it does exist in E�? Or maybe the only possible absolute evil is... Eru? Ah the bodies and stuff. How much from the early stages of the legendary remained till the latest variants about Valar? A lot of BoLT ideas were abandoned with the progress of legendary. Valar are no parents anymore in the post LotR legendary, how 'human' would they be? How spirit like and angelic would hey be? More alive elements in power over Arda or Greek Gods equivalents with all their weaknesses towards mortal beauties? Would they wear bodies exact with elven or bodies which just mirror elven beauty, but serve not the same? Apart moments when they eat and would need some way to annihilate the food inside of their bodies, not necessarily our traditional way, though ;) This comes from the small discussion with Rhapsody, started after various fan fiction where Valar have sex, breed kids and mate with beings of other kind. I'm more towards spiritual-elemental spectrum and will powers, than Greek lustful Gods. My Valar don't even have full equipped bodies for they need them not to guard and shape Arda and they wear them only when they have to, taking their true form whenever they can to have unchained power. Not talking about canon now, but my own vision of Valar on Arda. Though I wonder how close to the canon it is. I have to read the Myth Transformed, yet, I guess a lot of info about the Valar is hidden there. What else from JRRT writings? Canon if I remember well - they can change shape and they wear physical bodies only in front of the Children of Eru. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ http://www.isle.px.pl From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1191 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76128 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 14:26:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 14:26:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 14:26:10 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4BA5803C for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:25:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:25:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:25:54 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <6110644187.20070731162554@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=wEycxbHuPWugMTHeUQKhNpBGR2nXWBDg7F9MFrnVyMxQCruRN9k X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle BTW, I see you finally didn't attach the info about Nerdanel's haircolor? I don't see it. It would be nice to attach that bite from Vinyar Tengwar about her 'brown' hair (or red), given regarding the colour red essay. It provides that brown/red haired Nerdanel is canon, not fanon. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1192 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89774 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 15:09:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 15:09:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 15:09:57 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so3346168pye for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:09:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=dahjjLfTHFJ9txX25X9/EIdOyCE2jFQfRHWSYf1Otws7RTIHUPwYmD7XAm95Hx/Do02XFI+0Kl829rHcoUVloHe5KvoTVAC9mB2Y/2P/6WH10i2kSBLKY/YUA+xiZmq3NSfhPMk+Xr6QvS3OPjwL9ZvvqC3Mk+HQmeHkrCceQfQ= Received: by 10.35.39.2 with SMTP id r2mr20108351pyj.1185894596861; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:09:56 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <6110644187.20070731162554@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_41127_25112090.1185894596563" References: <6110644187.20070731162554@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=jpBj-4xhSr3TvMqLsJBGnBmq3ZcY8P5_2rxfmUTMg_p3-IhGgQuk X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_41127_25112090.1185894596563-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1193 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93897 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 15:17:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 15:17:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.96) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 15:17:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 59496 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2007 15:15:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: YfKQqioVM1nvLntqzN7tsSRh.4PRXtC8DB2erVXyQHCtPEpzP3HJv1Sa.NcLwulfyPRUe5Dd1bid4_06kYHn_7x7zpKeQOlMYRnqjwN47xocsMYmB.dAsIE0qYjH7d2Yyw_LuqE4du4coS0- Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:15:06 PDT Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:15:06 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <992239822.20070731160225@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-258416077-1185894906=:59106" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <174313.59106.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=N7VhjkjzyWjPF8gPayTH7ZSrBpm3DbGKhZ9jNaWw5CippxfwDg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-258416077-1185894906=:59106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I really have no opinion on this but I can't wait to see the answers Great topic Sirielle! Sirielle wrote: Ai folks, I'm just packing and leaving for a few days, but I thought I'll take here a small debate I've had with Rhapsody once - and we've never finished. As drawings, I often start debates and they become never ending WIPs, either. So - this time it's not about elves, but Valar. Also on another group someone started to talk about Valar and it reminded me that dropped discussion. Hehe, the second part of the topic is one of my believes about Valarin bodies ;) Though this detail might not be true regarding Melkor in some moments, but let's focus on more serious questions. I wonder what do you all think - was Melkor an absolute evil or not? And what is absolute evil if it does exist in E�? Or maybe the only possible absolute evil is... Eru? Ah the bodies and stuff. How much from the early stages of the legendary remained till the latest variants about Valar? A lot of BoLT ideas were abandoned with the progress of legendary. Valar are no parents anymore in the post LotR legendary, how 'human' would they be? How spirit like and angelic would hey be? More alive elements in power over Arda or Greek Gods equivalents with all their weaknesses towards mortal beauties? Would they wear bodies exact with elven or bodies which just mirror elven beauty, but serve not the same? Apart moments when they eat and would need some way to annihilate the food inside of their bodies, not necessarily our traditional way, though ;) This comes from the small discussion with Rhapsody, started after various fan fiction where Valar have sex, breed kids and mate with beings of other kind. I'm more towards spiritual-elemental spectrum and will powers, than Greek lustful Gods. My Valar don't even have full equipped bodies for they need them not to guard and shape Arda and they wear them only when they have to, taking their true form whenever they can to have unchained power. Not talking about canon now, but my own vision of Valar on Arda. Though I wonder how close to the canon it is. I have to read the Myth Transformed, yet, I guess a lot of info about the Valar is hidden there. What else from JRRT writings? Canon if I remember well - they can change shape and they wear physical bodies only in front of the Children of Eru. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ http://www.isle.px.pl Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. --0-258416077-1185894906=:59106 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I really have no opinion on this but I can't wait to see the answers  Great topic Sirielle!

Sirielle wrote:
Ai folks,

I'm just packing and leaving for a few days, but I thought I'll take
here a small debate I've had with Rhapsody once - and we've never
finished. As drawings, I often start debates and they become
never ending WIPs, either. So - this time it's not about elves, but
Valar. Also on another group someone started to talk about Valar and
it reminded me that dropped discussion.

Hehe, the second part of the topic is one of my believes about Valarin
bodies ;) Though this detail might not be true regarding Melkor in
some moments, but let's focus on more serious questions.

I wonder what do you all think - was Melkor an absolute evil or not?

And what is absolute evil if it does exist in E�?

Or maybe the only possible absolute evil is... Eru?

Ah the bodies and stuff.

How much from the early stages of the legendary remained till
the latest variants about Valar? A lot of BoLT ideas were abandoned
with the progress of legendary.

Valar are no parents anymore in the post LotR legendary, how 'human' would they be? How spirit like and angelic would hey be?
More alive elements in power over Arda or Greek Gods equivalents with
all their weaknesses towards mortal beauties?

Would they wear bodies exact with elven or bodies which just mirror elven beauty, but serve not the same? Apart
moments when they eat and would need some way to annihilate the food inside of their bodies, not necessarily our traditional way, though ;)
This comes from the small discussion with Rhapsody, started after various fan fiction where Valar have sex, breed kids
and mate with beings of other kind.

I'm more towards spiritual-elemental spectrum and will powers, than
Greek lustful Gods. My Valar don't even have full equipped bodies for they need
them not to guard and shape Arda and they wear them only when they have to, taking
their true form whenever they can to have unchained power. Not talking
about canon now, but my own vision of Valar on Arda. Though I wonder
how close to the canon it is. I have to read the Myth Transformed, yet,
I guess a lot of info about the Valar is hidden there. What else from
JRRT writings?

Canon if I remember well - they can change shape and they wear physical bodies only in
front of the Children of Eru.



Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/
http://www.isle.px.pl




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Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. --0-258416077-1185894906=:59106-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1194 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93223 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 15:48:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 15:48:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 15:48:20 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c40.1c9a6c4c (41810) for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:43:47 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1185896627" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=beXc9CNpT8xDCJeVMEoVC7YEUitRGPp3GMe8CP8Uq8_aFccMEgTo X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1185896627 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I don't know about any of that stuff. I went to Catholic Schools for too many years where such questions were discussed at great length and it wore me out by second year of college. So, I won't be much good at this discussion. but can throw in one point which came up for me yesterday. The supposed brothers Irmo and Namo: In the Valaquenta in relation to Irmo/Lorien it states there were two brother--Irmo and Namo and Irmo was the younger brother. That seems a bit specific to me to empty philosophical rambling about how all the Valar being "brothers." I have no idea how they could have parents. OK assuming they don't, Eru made them. But how did he make them brothers? By that analogy the elves that awakened were their brothers too? I have heard the same problem raised in discussion about whether or not elves said to be related were awakened or born and the logic would indicate that then could not be First elves, but Born elves. Presuming the Valar are completely asexual and don't have any bits and pieces, why do they go around taking wives--hmmm? What is the point? Why not roommates, best friends, comrades? I like the idea of a god like that sexy, irresistible Krishna better (with all the girls chasing after him) than Valar without penises, but I didn't write the story. I guess what I am trying to say is however logical one may try to make these theological discussions, they will always eventually hit a snag. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1185896627 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Well, I don't kno= w about any of that stuff. I went to Catholic Schools for too many years w= here such questions were discussed at great length and it wore me out by s= econd year of college. So, I won't be much good at this discussion. but ca= n throw in one point which came up for me yesterday. The supposed bro= thers Irmo and Namo: In the Valaquenta in relation to Irmo/Lorien it state= s there were two brother--Irmo and Namo and Irmo was the younger brother. = That seems a bit specific to me to empty philosophical rambling = about how all the Valar being "brothers." I have no idea how they could ha= ve parents. OK assuming they don't, Eru made them. But how did he mak= e them brothers? By that analogy the elves that awakened were their brothe= rs too? I have heard the same problem raised in discussion about whether o= r not elves said to be related were awakened or born and the logic would i= ndicate that then could not be First elves, but Born elves. Presuming= the Valar are completely asexual and don't have any bits and pieces, why = do they go around taking wives--hmmm? What is the point? Why not roommates= , best friends, comrades? I like the idea of a god like that sexy, irresis= tible Krishna better (with all the girls chasing after him) than Valar wit= hout penises, but I didn't write the story.
 
I= guess what I am trying to say is however logical one may try to make thes= e theological discussions, they will always eventually hit a snag.
<= /FONT>


Get a sneak peek of the all-ne= w AOL.com.
= -------------------------------1185896627-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1195 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67294 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 15:52:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 15:52:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nz-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.162.234) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 15:52:26 -0000 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s1so1193249nze for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:52:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=GsLvT+cbqQALLnkVnp3T2XrVxB4xoDhad/856jXC9dQ2/6JeNXdO/1e+47ZL775Jzu4pylqgIOzKViKL6XUrDnaLiiiJDlA0MZ3OqxurWt932zrJ7x91AbCtkVhs2g2vgZQEG2dsM2ZojSiV6kfKO3pyGMEsYwcI/I0LyAySWmc= Received: by 10.142.171.6 with SMTP id t6mr275527wfe.1185897143660; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.98.6 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <998429f80707310852u649c432eh3a311754d9825f66@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:52:23 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <992239822.20070731160225@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <992239822.20070731160225@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=mThvC974j-fPVtlNw0YF-7k6cDKJlMugwBSplBzkBxiIxGUIbKXvnQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Sirielle, Just my opinion on this. By the way.... I wrote a story a wh= ile back that some of you guys might find pertinent. It was written on a so= rt of dare from a friend but I ended up making it pretty seriously. It's Fi= mbrethil/Goldberry femslash, and involved quite a discussion between the tw= o ladies about the differences in love between beings who are bound to a bo= dy (entwives) and those who are not (ainur). (For the purposes of the story= , I made Goldberry a maia of Ulmo.) If anyone is interested: Come Back to = Me, http://telperion-fic.livejournal.com/35278.html. > I wonder what do yo= u all think - was Melkor an absolute evil or not? > > And what is absolute = evil if it does exist in E=E4? > > Or maybe the only possible absolute evil= is... Eru? > Well.... Melkor was not evil before he entered time (like, i= n the Ainulindale), but I'm not sure that counts. Philosophically, it's har= d to talk about something being absolutely one way or another unless it's a= cting within the bounds of time. Time means the possibility of change, and = not changing ever makes it absolutely one way or the other. Certainly once = he's within Ea Melkor seems consistently evil. That may be one definition o= f "absolutely evil". Another definition would be "as evil as it's possible= to be". I don't think that's possible, because it seems like in Ea it's al= ways possible to sink a little lower. Or at least, as time goes on it's pos= sible to accumulate more evil (and do more evil than you end up doing). If = it makes sense to talk about "absolute evil" in this sense, then all the ti= me Melkor spent chained up or hiding in his fortress was missed opportuniti= es to do more evil, and so Melkor wasn't absolute evil because he could hav= e been even more evil. Eru cannot be absolute evil because he wills both e= vil and good. So even in the first sense I discussed, even if he were to en= ter into time, he wouldn't be absolutely evil. As for the second sense, eve= ry time he allows good to happen rather than evil, he's less evil than he c= ould have been so I don't think he's absolutely evil. If there is absolute= evil, it's in the snese of concepts that are always wrong to do, no matter= what the circumstances. Things like "it is always wrong to take by force w= hat is rightfully another's." I don't agree that this is an absolute moral = statement in general, but it seems to hold in Middle-earth. Elrond didn't t= ake the ring from Isildur at the Cracks of Doom, to give one example. But a= side from these general principles, I don't think any character or race is = absolute evil. > Valar are no parents anymore in the post LotR legendary, = how 'human' would they be? How spirit like and angelic would hey be? > More= alive elements in power over Arda or Greek Gods equivalents with > all the= ir weaknesses towards mortal beauties? > Well, I don't tend to be a great = Valar apologist, I think they mess up any situation they get involved in, b= ut I don't know this is due to weaknesses, more to lack of understanding. T= hey have a hard time empathizing with lower races and act in what they thin= k are their best interests, but it doesn't tend to work out that way. And t= hey're not used to being told "no". The exception are the Valar like the I= stari, Sauron-as-Annatar, and Melian. They took on human bodies long term, = and Melian settled into hers so thoroughly she even had a kid. I think that= if the Valar completely embraced a physical form and accepted it as their = true self, then they became much momre like the created races and so unders= tood them better. > Would they wear bodies exact with elven or bodies whic= h just mirror elven beauty, but serve not the same? Apart > moments when th= ey eat and would need some way to annihilate the food inside of their bodie= s, not necessarily our traditional way, though ;) > This comes from the sma= ll discussion with Rhapsody, started after various fan fiction where Valar = have sex, breed kids > and mate with beings of other kind. > I do think th= at for most of the Valar the bodies would be temporary things, a way to giv= e them forms so they could interact with other races and when it served the= ir purposes. This is hinted at, I think in the Ainulindale or the Valaquent= a, where it says that for the Valar, their bodies were like our clothes. I= do not think the Valar had children the way Elves and Men did, unless they= allowed themselves to be tied to their bodies like Melian did by living in= the same one for years and years. The Valar are not given the ability to c= reate (the story with Aule and the Dwarves illustrates this), but Elves and= Men can create through sex and (in the case of elves at least) giving a pa= rt of their spirit to the child. So unless the hroa and fea of a vala becam= e knit together like they are in Elves, I don't think this kind of procreat= ion would be possible. This is actually something I go into in the story t= hat I linked at the top of this email--that the Ainur are not attached enou= gh to a certain form and aren't changed by time the way the Eruhini are, an= d so they cannot fall in love with each other in the same way we do (it wou= ld be a genuine change to their truest character). In my story they need a = created being to give them an "anchor" of sorts. That's my own invention, n= ot in canon anywhere, but I found it a fun idea to play with. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1196 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21786 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 16:30:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 16:30:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 16:30:56 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.d3c.ec9a437 (41810) for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:29:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:29:44 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1185899384" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Dc9G7cD7EXydsi-CEyqDe2PYzabXVL3suR8002kakFZ2OhlvztIK X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1185899384 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 7/31/2007 10:52:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, melayto= n@gmail.com writes: In my story they need a created being to give them an= "anchor" of sorts. In Marta's story her creative solution is an example= of the fanfic writer taking the somewhat spotty canon available and usin= g one's own logic to turn it into something which will result in ye ole s= uspension of disbelief. Great story. When she mentioned it I thought of t= wo other writers who really caught my imagination/convinced me with their= interpretation of Valar or Maiar. In "Even Quicker Than Doubt? =E2=80= =93 Keiliss get points from me for her description of the messenger from = the Valar who interrogates (sorry, no nice little cozy interview) the you= ng and vulnerable Elros and Elrond after the War of Wrath. Here=E2=80=99s= a teaser line wherein she sets the tone: =E2=80=9CThe lamplight turned his= pale hair to a shade close to silver, and caused his violet eyes to glit= ter strangely. He smiled, and it was not a comforting sight, infused as i= t was by no true warmth.=E2=80=9D There is lots more, including the whole= environment in which the chilling meeting was conducted (basically comes= down to arm-twisting/backmail). And, of course, I love to hate Tyellas= =E2=80=99s Annatar=E2=80=94so creepy, with his beautiful body, face and h= air and round ears (nice touch--they way the writer makes them sound so d= ifferent, appealing), all golden and alien. However, despite his attempts= at achieving the perfect bodily manifestation and manner calculated to a= ttract those elves he remains creepy=E2=80=94I would not have gone out wit= h the guy (and a few others felt the same way)! **********************= **************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.ao= l.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1185899384 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
In a message dated 7/31/2007 10:52:5= 8 AM Eastern Standard Time, melayton@gmail.com writes:
= In my story they need a
created being to give them an "= anchor" of sorts.
In Marta's s= tory her creative solution is an example of the fanfic writer taking the s= omewhat spotty canon available and using one's own logic to turn it into s= omething which will result in ye ole suspension of disbelief. Great story. = When she mentioned it I thought of two other writers who really caught my = imagination/convinced me with their interpretation of Valar or Maiar.=
 

In "Even Quicker Than Doubt? = =E2=80=93 Keiliss get points from me for her description of the messenger = from the Valar who interrogates (sorry, no nice little cozy interview) the= young and vulnerable Elros and Elrond after the War of Wrath. Here=E2=80= =99s a teaser line wherein she sets the tone: =E2=80=9CThe lamplight turned= his pale hair to a shade close to silver, and caused his violet eyes to g= litter strangely. He smiled, and it was not a comforting sight, infused as= it was by no true warmth.=E2=80=9D There is lots more, including the whol= e environment in which the chilling meeting was conducted (basically comes= down to arm-twisting/backmail).

 <= o:p>

And, of course, I love to hate = Tyellas=E2=80=99s Annatar=E2=80=94so creepy, with his beautiful body, face= and hair and round ears (nic= e touch--they way the writer makes them sound so different, appealing= ), all golden and alien. However, despite his attempts at achieving the pe= rfect bodily manifestation and manner calculated to attract those elves he= remains creepy=E2=80=94I would not have gone out with the guy (and a few = others felt the same way)!



Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
-------------------------------1185899384-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1197 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96803 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 16:53:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 16:53:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nz-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.162.227) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 16:53:15 -0000 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so1274703nzi for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:53:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=d84rb5bh1G2loteTH7vzgHWG7ZUqUqvK6ezYzi7M+VzVmrSYTycCjY60otQXMKcbfnqApKNB6BPKKGCKYKP0I/7rcZt9cUbxpujoP6LOMC1cO6ympZbM126Q+WX5kP7eSoISK85zGRM1bhwXgiL1856aMulcWlqCwr5Z0hXiA8M= Received: by 10.142.246.8 with SMTP id t8mr360406wfh.1185900786178; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.98.6 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <998429f80707310953t4130277etda92f62663b6eea8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:53:06 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=xf0rHaZy-v7_bhsxREbfEHyQVUVeouwL9uIcl9_WKAI4vJT8Ub-4uA X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Oshun, > > In my story they need a > > created being to give them an "anchor" of sorts. > > In Marta's story her creative solution is an example of the fanfic writer taking the somewhat spotty canon available and using one's own logic to turn it into something which will result in ye ole suspension of disbelief. Great story. When she mentioned it I thought of two other writers who really caught my imagination/convinced me with their interpretation of Valar or Maiar. > > Thank you! I think that is all any writer can really do. I have not fooled myself into thinking my approach is the only viable interpretation/extrapolation of canon, certainly! But it's the one that's most developed in my mind, so I thought I'd explain it a bit. Can you give us links for the other two stories? They sound fun, and I'd like to look at them. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1198 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18646 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 16:56:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 16:56:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 16:56:23 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCAA74809D for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:49:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:49:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:49:42 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <235354044.20070731184942@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=cmjJqvi1Ot5OZs_OWZgQK4TpIvocSyKCvyRfNi_IDCHooYioQ-Y X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Great that you like the topic, folks, I have to pack now, but will try to catch up or back to it after I come back. Marta, I need to read your story first to say anything, but I love that you mentioned the concept of time being the important factor! Oshun> And, of course, I love to hate Tyellas�s Annatar I loooove to hate him! He has beaten me twice already ;) but I will win him one day, you'll see. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1199 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58729 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 17:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 17:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 17:21:36 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.ca9.15643adf (41810) for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:21:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:21:07 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1185902467" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=GdxZ9yIo_xHj6IBSPAf6gWkOVrBCVS6lWbfFDqKzYaTmpyDma0SK X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1185902467 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 7/31/2007 11:54:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, melayto= n@gmail.com writes: Can you give us links for the other two stories? They= sound fun, and I'd like to look at them. I'd be happy to--with warnin= gs for the delicate and/or fragile. Tyellas =E2=80=93 "Fellowship of th= e Jewel-smiths" - Definitely not for the faint-hearted; NC-17, slash and = BDSM; don=E2=80=99t think I would have been able to read it if she were a= even a shade less skillful of a writer. But Annatar=E2=80=99s seduction = of the elves would not have been pretty in my opinion (maybe readers can = close their eyes during the really scary parts!). _http://www.ansereg.co= m/fellowship_of_the_jewel-smiths.htm_ (http://www.ansereg.com/fellowship_o= f_the_jewel-smiths.htm) Keiliss =E2=80=93 "Even Quicker Than Doubt" is R= -rated slash, but gentle, warm and tender (but never sappy) with lovely c= haracterizations and motivations and rare exploration of early-Second Age= canon. _http://keiliss.fluffydragon.co.uk/multipartfanfiction.html_ (htt= p://keiliss.fluffydragon.co.uk/multipartfanfiction.html) (For those like = me who cannot resist spoilers; the section I referenced is in Chapter 10.= (I nominated this one for this year=E2=80=99s MEFAs.) I'm pleased to see = that Keiliss is posting in the SWG archive now. I hope she posts this one= there. It=E2=80=99s a classic.) **************************************= Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolc= om30tour -------------------------------1185902467 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
In a message dated 7/31/2007 11:54:1= 1 AM Eastern Standard Time, melayton@gmail.com writes:
= Can you give us links for the other two stories? They soun= d fun, and
I'd like to look at them.

I'd be happy to--with warnings for the delicate and/or f= ragile.
 

Tyellas =E2=80=93 "Fellowship of the Jewel-smiths" - Defin= itely not for the faint-hearted; NC-17, slash and BDSM; don=E2=80=99t thin= k I would have been able to read it if she were a even a shade less skillf= ul of a writer. But Annatar=E2=80=99s seduction of the elves would not have= been pretty in my opinion (maybe readers can close their eyes during= the really scary parts!).  = http= ://www.ansereg.com/fellowship_of_the_jewel-smiths.htm

<= FONT size=3D3> 

Keiliss =E2=80=93 "Even Quicker Than Doubt= " is R-rated slash, but gentle, warm and tender (but never sappy) with lov= ely characterizations and motivations and rare exploration of early-Second= Age canon. http://keiliss.fluffydragon.co.uk/multipartfanfiction.html (F= or those like me who cannot resist spoilers; the section I referenced is in= Chapter 10. (I nominated this one for this year=E2=80=99s MEFAs.) I'm ple= ased to see that Keiliss is posting in the SWG archive now. I hope she pos= ts this one there. It=E2=80=99s a classic.)



Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
-------------------------------1185902467-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1200 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29142 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 19:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 19:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.127) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 19:03:06 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 19:02:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 19:02:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 19:02:51 -0000 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:02:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <992239822.20070731160225@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=HHn7JsSUKVuiXzXyri5uVI0fTFWcif_5BG0Ni2UzpazW8Y47ZlrlVYw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai folks, > > I'm just packing and leaving for a few days, but I = thought I'll take > here a small debate I've had with Rhapsody once - and w= e've never > finished. As drawings, I often start debates and they become >= never ending WIPs, either. So - this time it's not about elves, but > Vala= r. Also on another group someone started to talk about Valar and > it remin= ded me that dropped discussion. Hehehe, well I think I said enough about i= t and that how we think about it are completely the opposite. So I am going= to lean back and say nothing. :c) Rhapsody (who doesn't have much time fo= r it anyway) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1201 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40463 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 19:32:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 19:32:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.183) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 19:32:10 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f31so3573702pyh for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:31:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=isHKM2J9EChRrAtplm0eXPibOtYakKA1EAlVKbu99vV/J/JA/1aLGzF8c+f/UPLA2PkidQKp9MgrmFkqtLiuwqpCqOwudBnfcSqGHUAUzeWEdEZuf2jnkS7DR72p5JkhOhfchgjWOC2LLV47an67LcKfdO6OVFbQw1bpLQe7OoY= Received: by 10.35.75.15 with SMTP id c15mr20484963pyl.1185910274992; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:31:14 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <992239822.20070731160225@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_44235_17755160.1185910274859" References: <992239822.20070731160225@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=GCbKs7fTPCxwVkQ8Cf7JhWmiMvCNqF1A92sutkLIOjsh3ZxTezfL X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_44235_17755160.1185910274859-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1202 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61394 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 19:51:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 19:51:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 19:51:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 89418 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2007 19:51:14 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: b0lzDt4VM1mmPnWH4rhhWtQiwZYOH_f_1V28bihTP.suap7PZD4H4dU0tdNSOaVzbgfBAGLUsSik.nISqDtN4v7G2AxmlZh1q3Gxmng2ihYQ1xVfO567D1ENOty4wcAtrF1WJU_.tawVm4Nut24THd9jqg-- Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:51:13 PDT Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:51:13 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1706621982-1185911473=:87869" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <47036.87869.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=AEQ-1VCoDEcd9vM954V_wzi6zdXKVSPoJ6vB6LRbEJ8nfxJZQw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1706621982-1185911473=:87869 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I haven't written Morgoth yet but I have included Ainur in one of my stories that starts out in Fourth Age Valinor and wrote them as if they were in human form. They were seen through the eyes of an elf and she frequently described them in a 'larger than life' or 'too perfect' so to speak way. I guess I was thinking that Melian and the Istari looked like human/elves so I just made the Ainur a somewhat more perfect version of the elves. I think partially its because I think that if God does (and Jesus has) walked amongst us they would choose to be in human form as to blend in. But thats my somewhat simplier opinion. lol I wanted my Ainur to appeal to people who had never read the Silmarillion too so I wrote them as perfect beings but still 'normal' looking. --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. --0-1706621982-1185911473=:87869 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


I haven't written Morgoth yet but I have included Ainur in one of my stories that starts out in Fourth Age Valinor and wrote them as if they were in human form. They were seen through the eyes of an elf and she frequently described them in a 'larger than life' or 'too perfect' so to speak way. I guess I was thinking that Melian and the Istari looked like human/elves so I just made the Ainur a somewhat more perfect version of the elves. I think partially its because I think that if God does (and Jesus has) walked amongst us they would choose to be in human form as to blend in. But thats my somewhat simplier opinion. lol I wanted my Ainur to appeal to people who had never read the Silmarillion too so I wrote them as perfect beings but still 'normal' looking.

Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. --0-1706621982-1185911473=:87869-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1203 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65311 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 20:37:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 20:37:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 20:37:00 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c02.1c07a4c0 (48600) for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:33:54 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1185914034" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=9qOiQCoCf4doUPYuswX_Vdb7TTMB0-uv_EppUvlPgZ3kZBqGblc3 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1185914034 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/2007 3:59:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsodybard@gmail.com writes: Can you upload the picture in the files section? Pretty please with a cherry on top? The picture doesn't show up in the post on the site here... Oh, Rhapsody, I couldn't figure it out. So I posted my entire Wee Elves series on my lj. _http://heartofoshun.livejournal.com/18951.html_ (http://heartofoshun.livejournal.com/18951.html) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1185914034 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/31/2007 3:59:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsodybard@gmail.com= writes:
http://heartofoshun.livejournal.com/18951.html=  



Get a sneak p= eek of the all-new AOL.com. -------------------------------1185914034-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1204 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61130 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2007 23:11:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2007 23:11:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.104) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2007 23:11:52 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n10.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 23:11:39 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 23:11:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2007 23:11:39 -0000 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:11:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=UWBev9RDyKfL5MO05yTyg3PRLt4D3LXZ80vKltKuRUohOu1kDnCmpxI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > First of all, Sirielle, your title made me laugh out lo= ud! I wonder > how many casual readers of the SWG discussion list will clic= k on > that one just because of the title? >:^) LOL! Oh I most certainly = did! > Now, I have rambled *far* too long! Keebler Elf cookies and= backrubs > from Maedhros to anyone who has made it this far! I did! I am = on the same page with you (and did cited BoTL1 and the Ainulindale in menti= oned discussion by Sirielle though..), but I think it all boils down to wha= t part of HOME you chose to take into account and what not. I know that in = our discussion Sirielle does not follow BoTL and such, so yeah. Rhapsody (= who leaves Maedhros alone and runs off with Celegorm & cookies instead) = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1205 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77423 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2007 01:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2007 01:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.182) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2007 01:36:20 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id d32so100714pye for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:36:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=TcCm+U76FhTaYQxtSkUQTkUlCAo1RY4v6gIYWmrEYr2Jn2Olr9SLIgjtSHozf/C5vM6QhSq5BgKmochO7w8bsOfXRDQa3GIT+37lEh5ONMeDJCqTG8u1swpB/cEyEuJimYdSV3XdRNVuQ37JMtsSiIizrie4osZMQQs+VDbrEpg= Received: by 10.35.111.14 with SMTP id o14mr37448pym.1185932173384; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:36:13 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_47301_14747882.1185932173311" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Seven in '07: Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MUPPzvoMZGRfDUKolph5iTbOuE72NYa3bIJji0ldbwHWByjKM6bc X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_47301_14747882.1185932173311-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1206 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29409 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2007 02:27:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2007 02:27:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web58314.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.167) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2007 02:27:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 82275 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Aug 2007 02:27:41 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: vU8mQ6UVM1law0gbeW_2s7Ycl.eUfrsowyFB6UDGEToluwjwXWXQZb76Sycpp9TzhQYRtbBFxyF5IfgnBvPxQfpX2UJAI5edf1QKzlYZeTFOyYND8LyxAGSNKLDWNjZBPmtCbQpqUX_PqsV4IQiyNPFf0A-- Received: from [71.234.29.237] by web58314.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:27:41 PDT Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:27:41 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <992239822.20070731160225@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1231831375-1185935261=:82258" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <433262.82258.qm@web58314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Niki S." Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=P4-2rFurMbc4YkI67yzJ61gbbblMcZZ1IwK82_WaM-FsGTzy8w X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes --0-1231831375-1185935261=:82258 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Right, now I have this image stuck in mind of Namo messing up his Doom Pronouncing because he's VERY desperate and his mind is occupied with, "I have no idea how I'm supposed to pee! And my Halls don't even have a Little Vala's Room!" :D --Pulsarkat Sirielle wrote: Would they wear bodies exact with elven or bodies which just mirror elven beauty, but serve not the same? Apart moments when they eat and would need some way to annihilate the food inside of their bodies, not necessarily our traditional way, though ;) --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. --0-1231831375-1185935261=:82258 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Right, now I have this image stuck in mind of Namo messing up his Doom Pronouncing because he's VERY desperate and his mind is occupied with, "I have no idea how I'm supposed to pee! And my Halls don't even have a Little Vala's Room!" :D

--Pulsarkat

Sirielle wrote:
Would they wear bodies exact with elven or bodies which just mirror elven beauty, but serve not the same? Apart
moments when they eat and would need some way to annihilate the food inside of their bodies, not necessarily our traditional way, though ;)

Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. --0-1231831375-1185935261=:82258-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1207 Return-Path: X-Sender: hot_4_art@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76394 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2007 03:32:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2007 03:32:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.112) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2007 03:32:23 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2007 03:31:13 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2007 03:31:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2007 03:31:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 03:31:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "hot_4_art" Subject: Call for Writers X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=310149986; y=tdknQvWxDNHssxsuI562yOUp84o0HkpvzqeTuaWQRa4RF0ik X-Yahoo-Profile: hot_4_art Call for Science Fiction and or murder/mystery themed short stories (less = then 6000 words but more the 2000 Words ). This call for writers is being = put out by American Fiction the sister publication to http://www.artsource= -newsletter.org .The inaugrual issue will be July of this year. The ezine = will have a different theme very month , writers resources, writers direct= ory, chatroom, and music jukebox. Please visit the site www.americanfictio= n.org . If your story is picked you will be included in the writers direct= ory and the story will be published online. The authors of the published s= tories will have an opportunity to be included in the ezines hardcopy annu= al. Please send all submission to info@cyberpublishing.org. Post Script= : we are currently looking for writers in the murder/mystery genre. Priori= ty will be given to writers in that genre. Thank You American Fiction Staf= f Thank You and Goodluck www.cyberpublishing.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1208 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52231 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2007 13:12:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2007 13:12:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2007 13:12:37 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCFF58040 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:10:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:10:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:10:08 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1768678341.20070801151008@tlen.pl> To: "Niki S." In-Reply-To: <433262.82258.qm@web58314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <992239822.20070731160225@tlen.pl> <433262.82258.qm@web58314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=2vS3XhjdRRMThmbENjI20yDcUEoVns-ITftxEyOUHsKFQqbngx0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Niki, NS> Right, now I have this image stuck in mind of Namo messing up NS> his Doom Pronouncing because he's VERY desperate and his mind is NS> occupied with, "I have no idea how I'm supposed to pee! And my NS> Halls don't even have a Little Vala's Room!" :D He doesn't need to pee, he exchanges all into elements in his Valarin energetic body ;P I should have made the topic opposite - put penis first and then the real topic, even more people would click it. I'm leaving for 10 days, will be back to it. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1209 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99691 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2007 15:33:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2007 15:33:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2007 15:33:36 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.c79.19667a23 (48576) for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:25:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:25:42 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1185981942" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=9s6GW3fgAoaTDn0IQGl0w1g8UPlEfOqEM8gQjtaVt5EibNv3Emr0 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1185981942 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/1/2007 8:14:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: put penis first and then the real topic, even more people would click it. Sirielle!!--I thought that was the real topic. Have a great time! Oshun ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------------------------1185981942 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 8/1/2007 8:14:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes= :
put penis first and then the
real= topic, even more people would click it.
Sirielle!!--I thought that was the real topic. Have a great ti= me!
 
Oshun



Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
-------------------------------1185981942-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1210 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41086 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2007 00:14:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2007 00:14:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.250) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Aug 2007 00:14:22 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n29.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2007 00:13:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2007 00:13:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2007 00:13:23 -0000 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:13:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="6-6049668162-7206934953=:0" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Newsletter--August 2007 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=f16aWxSp-GGVumivjoHUKLLFS6Fa1-emsKmhRPqJrLxG7_TXzrC- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --6-6049668162-7206934953=:0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm hoping this comes through okay; it's my first time trying the rich-tex= t feature on Yahoo! Groups. But it will hopefully save me from trying to co= py and paste from the HMTL original to preserve links, et cetera. If it loo= ks wonky on your computer, a clean copy can be found here: http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php August's Challenges Ol=F3r= =EB Mall=EB It has been said to me, though the truth I know not, that that = lane ran by devious routes to the homes of Men, but that way we never trod = when we fared thither ourselves. It was a lane of deep banks and great over= hanging hedges, beyond which stood many tall trees wherein a perpetual whis= per seemed to live; but not seldom great glow-worms crept about its grassy = borders ... These too were the earliest children -- the children of the fat= hers of the fathers of Men that came there; and for pity the Eldar sought t= o guide all who came down that lane into the cottage and the garden, lest t= hey strayed into K=F4r and became enamoured of the glory of Valinor; for th= en would they either stay there for ever, and great grief fall ontheir pare= nts, or would they wander back and long for ever vainly, and become strange= and wild among the children of Men. Early in Tolkien's mythology, in The C= ottage of Lost Play from The Book of Lost Tales 1, he tells of an extraordi= nary road that leads from the homes of Men to Tol Eresse=E4. Along this roa= d, the children of Men travel in their dreams and visit the Elves and a won= drous world beyond their own borders. While the idea of Ol=F3r=EB Mall=EB--= or the Path of Dreams--was quickly abandoned, dreams remained important thr= oughout Tolkien's works. Through dreams, Melian receives word of what trans= pires in Valinor. Finrod and Turgon are moved to establish their respective= hidden kingdoms because of Ulmo's voice in their dreams. Thingol receives = hints of Beren's arrival and Beren receives portents of his father's death = in the strange world of dreams. E=E4rendil turns his ship back to Beleriand= because of a dark dream. This challenge asks authors to consider their ch= aracters' dreams. What dreams haunted the Noldor, Edain, and Dwarves on the= night before the Nirnaeth Arnoediad? What dreams of her child might have c= aused a mother to name him as she did? What silly, hopeful dreams drove a c= haracter in his youth? Any story, poem, or drabble about dreams will do. Th= is month, we invite our members and guests to step upon Ol=F3r=EB Mall=EB a= nd consider where it leads. The Terrible Twos! SWG turned two at the end of= July, so this challenge asks authors to consider the second year of a char= acter's life. What happened in history that shaped their early childhood? W= hat was their family life like? Were they indeed "terrible" as the old adag= e predicts? Whether fun or serious or somewhere in between, let's go back t= o this time of innocence and mischief in the lives of our favorite characte= rs. Quote of the Month Amidmost of those pleasances was set within a ring o= f shadowy cypress towering high that deep vat Silindrin. There it lay in a = bed of pearls, and its surface unbroken was shot with silver flickerings, a= nd the shadows of the trees lay on it, and the Mountains of Valinor could s= ee their faces mirrored there. L=F3rien gazing upon it saw many visions of = mystery pass across its face ... The Coming of the Valar and the Building o= f Valinor, The Book of Lost Tales 1 Character of the Month: Irmo L=F3rien= Irmo, also referred to as L=F3rien (actually the name of his dwelling plac= e), is one of the two Valar brothers who are called the F=EBanturi. The app= ellation F=EBanturi (the Quenya root of which is f=EBa or spirit) refers to= their role as masters of the spirits of the children of Eru, distinguishin= g them from the Valar who deal in more concrete matters. N=E1mo, the elder = of the brothers, is often referred to as well by the name of his place of a= bode, Mandos. The descriptions of Irmo vary little from Tolkien's earliest = mentions of him up through and including the portrait which is given in the= published Silmarillion where he is described as the master of visions and = dreams. In The Book of Lost Tales, Irmo is first referred to as F=E1ntur= of Dreams who is also called L=F3rien Olof=E1ntur. Some ten years later in= notes dating to 1930, later published in The Shaping of Middle-Earth, Olof= =E1ntur is described again, in more detail, as the "maker of visions and of= dreams" whose "gardens in the land of the Gods were the fairest of all pla= ces in the world and filled with many spirits of beauty and power." In near= -identical language to the other texts, we again may read of Irmo under the= name of Olof=E1ntur in The Lost Road and Other Writings and Morgoth's Ring= , with the sole addition of his wife Est=EB. Finally, in The Silmarillion= , "Valaquenta," Olof=E1ntur takes the name Irmo. His gardens in L=F3rien a= re said to be "the fairest of all places in the world, filled with many spi= rits." Aptly, the spouse of Irmo is Est=EB the gentle. She is named as the = healer of hurts and of weariness, whose special gift is rest. Together the = two of them provided in Valinor a refuge in the groves and gardens of Lorie= n where not only the Eldar but also the Valar themselves could take advanta= ge of the relief provided for those suffering from the burden of Arda . The= implication is made that in the fair gardens of L=F3rien, Irmo will provid= e the Eldar with guiding visions and dreams while his wife will grant solac= e and heal physical ills. Some References to L=F3rien Throughout Tolkien's = Canon After M=EDriel Serind=EB used up all of her spiritual and physical re= serves in bearing and giving birth to the great F=EBanor and wished only fo= r "release from the labours of living" she was delivered into the care of I= rmo in L=F3rien. Two of the Maiar most familiar to readers of Tolkien also= dwelt in L=F3rien. The Maia Melian, before she came to Middle-earth to fal= l in love with Elw=EB Singollo (Elu Thingol) and give birth to L=FAthien, l= ived in L=F3rien "tending the trees that flower in the gardens of Irmo." Th= en, Ol=F3rin, "the wisest of the Maiar," (better known in his incarnation o= f Mithrandir/Gandalf) dwelt in L=F3rien and from there brought to the heart= s of Elves and Men "fair visions" and "promptings of wisdom." Finally, whi= le still under the ban of the Noldor that prohibited her from returning to = Valinor, Galadriel attempted to create a land of peace and beauty in Lothl= =F3rien modeled upon her memories of the L=F3rien of Irmo and Est=EB. In Lo= rd of the Rings, the L=F3rien of Galadriel and Celeborn takes on, east of t= he sea, the same characteristics of serenity and sanctuary for which Irmo= 's L=F3rien was noted. Character profile by Oshun. Want more challenges?= Check out our complete challenge listing for almost two years' worth of challenges= to inspire your writing! Have an idea for a challenge? Some of our most p= opular challenges have been created by you, the members of SWG! If you have= a plotbunny gnawing at your ankle, a favorite quote, or a favorite chara= cter that you think might inspire others as well, please send an email to m= oderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org and we'll try to include your challenge in our next newsletter!= August's News Happy Birthday, SWG! SWG turned two years old at the end o= f July. In recognition of two great years, we offer the Terrible Twos chall= enge and also a round-robin story on the archive. (Check here for more details. You must be a member of the archive and logged in t= o contribute to the round robin.) We've come a long way in two years, from= a group with three members who felt that "there should be a place on the w= eb for Silmarillion-only fiction" to well over 100 members, active LiveJour= nal and Yahoo! communities, and a homepage and archive of our own. We hope = that these two years have established a friendly, fun community where Silma= rillion fans can share their writing, discuss canon, and continue learning = about the books they love. As always, we are open to feedback and new idea= s. Have an idea for a new event or project? Let us know! Likewise, if you w= ant to help give SWG another successful year, we always need volunteers. Ou= r Volunteer Page h= as up-to-date information on where we need volunteers the most, for those= who are interested. Banner Contest Digital artists, we need your help! As = SWG continues to grow, we have received requests for banners that members a= nd other groups can use to link to us on their own sites and pages. Those o= f you with a knack for digital art and manips are invited to contribute ban= ners. We would like to offer a variety to choose from, so we will try to us= e them all. In the event that we receive so many that we cannot feasibly po= st them all, we will present them to the group for a vote. There are a few= things to keep in mind when designing your banners: * Please save the= images as JPG files unless they involve animation. Animated images may be = saved as GIF files. * Banners should be no larger than 400 pixels wide = by 150 pixels high. * Banners should include the name "Silmarillion Wri= ters' Guild" or "SWG" somewhere on them. * Images should be suitable fo= r all audiences. Please, no nudity or blood and gore. * Very important:= Please use only your own artwork or get permission from the artist whose w= ork you're using. Artists should grant permission for you to use the image = as well as allow you to crop/modify it for the banner. They should understa= nd that the banner is being used by SWG and will be publicly available for = other Internet users to put on their pages. Unfortunately, it is not feasib= le for us to give credit to the artists' whose work is being used in the ba= nners. A small copyright notice in an inconspicuous place on the banner is = acceptable, but we reserve the right to determine what is acceptable for th= ese purposes. The copyright notice should not dominate or detract from the = banner. Please, no watermarks or large notices; we will not be able to disp= lay these banners. * SWG moderators reserve the right to use our discre= tion in choosing which banners to display. Please send your banners to mod= erator@silmarillionwritersguild.org . We will reply within a few days to let you know that we've recei= ved your submission. If we do not reply, please query; the email may have= been swallowed in a spam filter somewhere. The due date for banner submis= sions is Monday, 1 October 2007. Seven in '07 Is Completed During the month= of July, we honored the House of F=EBanor and, more specifically, the insp= iration it has provided to the Tolkien fan community. The Seven in '07 proj= ect was a great success, featuring stories, poems, and images crafted by mo= re than two dozen Tolkien fans. We thank all who followed the project and e= specially those who shared their time, energy, and talents so generously wi= th us to make it possible. If you haven't seen the finished project, we in= vite you to take a look! Seven in '07 now lives on our Special Projects page, where it can continue to be= enjoyed by fans of the House of F=EBanor. Plagiarism Policy Demystified A = plagiarism policy is something we hope we'll never have to use ... but in t= he interest of protecting the authors who use our sites, we thought it woul= d be a good idea to define and plan our response to plagiarism accusations.= Plagiarism remains an unfortunate reality in the world of writing, and the= Internet facilitates it. Both having work stolen and being wrongfully accu= sed of plagiarism are devastating to an author. This document defines how = we will treat accusations of plagiarism on SWG. What is plagiarism? What is= not plagiarism? What can authors do if they suspect that someone on SWG ha= s stolen their work? What are fair uses of another's work and how can autho= rs protect themselves from being accused unfairly of plagiarism? These ques= tions continue to be the subject of debate in the literary and academic com= munities. The plagiarism document can be found here . Around the World and Web F=EBanorian= Feast Our German members--or anyone wanting an excuse to travel--will be i= nterested to know that a F=EBanorian Feast is being held at Trutzburg at Al= tona on 22 September 2007, and there are still tickets left! Visit the Fean= orisches Feuerfest for more details. = Photographs of past events are available in Marja Kettner's Seven in '07 g= allery .= Around the World and Web is provided for our members to inform them of = events in the larger Tolkien community. SWG is not affiliated with and does= not endorse the groups that we feature in Around the World and Web, and we= are not responsible for content on sites outside of our own. Please use di= scretion and caution when visiting unfamiliar sites on the Internet. Would= you like to see your group or event featured on Around the World and Web? = See our Promotions Page for more details or email us at moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg . View Newsletter Arch= ive --6-6049668162-7206934953=:0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm hoping this comes through okay; it= 's my first time trying the rich-text feature on Yahoo! Groups. But it will= hopefully save me from trying to copy and paste from the HMTL original to = preserve links, et cetera. If it looks wonky on your computer, a clean copy= can be found here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/new= sletter.php

August's Challenges

Ol= =F3r=EB Mall=EB

It has been said to me, though the truth I= know not, that that lane ran by devious routes to the homes of Men, but th= at way we never trod when we fared thither ourselves. It was a lane of deep= banks and great overhanging hedges, beyond which stood many tall trees whe= rein a perpetual whisper seemed to live; but not seldom great glow-worms cr= ept about its grassy borders ... These too were the earliest children -- th= e children of the fathers of the fathers of Men that came there; and for pi= ty the Eldar sought to guide all who came down that lane into the cottage a= nd the garden, lest they strayed into K=F4r and became enamoured of the glo= ry of Valinor; for then would they either stay there for ever, and great gr= ief fall ontheir parents, or would they wander back and long for ever vainl= y, and become strange and wild among the children of Men.

= Early in Tolkien's mythology, in The Cottage of Lost Play from The Book of Lost Tales 1, he tells of an extraordinary road that lead= s from the homes of Men to Tol Eresse=E4. Along this road, the children of = Men travel in their dreams and visit the Elves and a wondrous world beyond = their own borders. While the idea of Ol=F3r=EB Mall=EB--or the Path of Drea= ms--was quickly abandoned, dreams remained important throughout Tolkien's w= orks. Through dreams, Melian receives word of what transpires in Valinor. F= inrod and Turgon are moved to establish their respective hidden kingdoms be= cause of Ulmo's voice in their dreams. Thingol receives hints of Beren's ar= rival and Beren receives portents of his father's death in the strange worl= d of dreams. E=E4rendil turns his ship back to Beleriand because of a dark = dream.

This challenge asks authors to consider their characters' dr= eams. What dreams haunted the Noldor, Edain, and Dwarves on the night befor= e the Nirnaeth Arnoediad? What dreams of her child might have caused a moth= er to name him as she did? What silly, hopeful dreams drove a character in = his youth? Any story, poem, or drabble about dreams will do. This month, we= invite our members and guests to step upon Ol=F3r=EB Mall=EB and consider = where it leads.

The Terrible Twos!

SWG turned two at the = end of July, so this challenge asks authors to consider the second year of = a character's life. What happened in history that shaped their early childh= ood? What was their family life like? Were they indeed "terrible" as the ol= d adage predicts? Whether fun or serious or somewhere in between, let's go = back to this time of innocence and mischief in the lives of our favorite ch= aracters.

Quote of the Month

Amidmost of those p= leasances was set within a ring of shadowy cypress towering high that deep = vat Silindrin. There it lay in a bed of pearls, and its surface unbroken wa= s shot with silver flickerings, and the shadows of the trees lay on it, and= the Mountains of Valinor could see their faces mirrored there. L=F3rien ga= zing upon it saw many visions of mystery pass across its face ...
Th= e Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor, The Book of Lost Tales 1=

Character of the Month: Irmo L=F3rien

Irmo= , also referred to as L=F3rien (actually the name of his dwelling place), i= s one of the two Valar brothers who are called the F=EBanturi. The appellat= ion F=EBanturi (the Quenya root of which is f=EBa or spirit) refer= s to their role as masters of the spirits of the children of Eru, distingui= shing them from the Valar who deal in more concrete matters. N=E1mo, the el= der of the brothers, is often referred to as well by the name of his place = of abode, Mandos. The descriptions of Irmo vary little from Tolkien's earli= est mentions of him up through and including the portrait which is given in= the published Silmarillion where he is described as the master of= visions and dreams.

In The Book of Lost Tales, Irmo is = first referred to as F=E1ntur of Dreams who is also called L=F3rien Olof=E1= ntur. Some ten years later in notes dating to 1930, later published in = The Shaping of Middle-Earth, Olof=E1ntur is described again, in more d= etail, as the "maker of visions and of dreams" whose "gardens in the land o= f the Gods were the fairest of all places in the world and filled with many= spirits of beauty and power." In near-identical language to the other text= s, we again may read of Irmo under the name of Olof=E1ntur in The Lost = Road and Other Writings and Morgoth's Ring, with the sole add= ition of his wife Est=EB. Finally, in The Silmarillion, "Valaque= nta," Olof=E1ntur takes the name Irmo.

His gardens in L=F3rien are = said to be "the fairest of all places in the world, filled with many spirit= s." Aptly, the spouse of Irmo is Est=EB the gentle. She is named as the hea= ler of hurts and of weariness, whose special gift is rest. Together the two= of them provided in Valinor a refuge in the groves and gardens of Lorien w= here not only the Eldar but also the Valar themselves could take advantage = of the relief provided for those suffering from the burden of Arda . The im= plication is made that in the fair gardens of L=F3rien, Irmo will provide t= he Eldar with guiding visions and dreams while his wife will grant solace a= nd heal physical ills.

Some References to L=F3rien Throughout = Tolkien's Canon

After M=EDriel Serind=EB used up all of her sp= iritual and physical reserves in bearing and giving birth to the great F=EB= anor and wished only for "release from the labours of living" she was deliv= ered into the care of Irmo in L=F3rien.

Two of the Maiar most famil= iar to readers of Tolkien also dwelt in L=F3rien. The Maia Melian, before s= he came to Middle-earth to fall in love with Elw=EB Singollo (Elu Thingol) = and give birth to L=FAthien, lived in L=F3rien "tending the trees that flow= er in the gardens of Irmo." Then, Ol=F3rin, "the wisest of the Maiar," (bet= ter known in his incarnation of Mithrandir/Gandalf) dwelt in L=F3rien and f= rom there brought to the hearts of Elves and Men "fair visions" and "prompt= ings of wisdom."

Finally, while still under the ban of the Noldor t= hat prohibited her from returning to Valinor, Galadriel attempted to create= a land of peace and beauty in Lothl=F3rien modeled upon her memories of th= e L=F3rien of Irmo and Est=EB. In Lord of the Rings, the L=F3rien = of Galadriel and Celeborn takes on, east of the sea, the same characteristi= cs of serenity and sanctuary for which Irmo's L=F3rien was noted.

Character profile by Oshun.


Want more chall= enges? Check out our complete challenge listing for almost two yea= rs' worth of challenges to inspire your writing!

Have an idea fo= r a challenge? Some of our most popular challenges have been created by= you, the members of SWG! If you have a plotbunny gnawing at your ankle, = a favorite quote, or a favorite character that you think might inspire othe= rs as well, please send an email to moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org and we'l= l try to include your challenge in our next newsletter!

August's News

Happy Birthday, SWG!

SWG turn= ed two years old at the end of July. In recognition of two great years, we = offer the Terrible Twos challenge and also a round-robin story on the archi= ve. (Check here for more details. You must = be a member of the archive and logged in to contribute to the round robin= .)

We've come a long way in two years, from a group with three memb= ers who felt that "there should be a place on the web for Silmarillion<= /em>-only fiction" to well over 100 members, active LiveJournal and Yahoo! = communities, and a homepage and archive of our own. We hope that these two = years have established a friendly, fun community where Silmarillion fans can share their writing, discuss canon, and continue learning about = the books they love.

As always, we are open to feedback and new ide= as. Have an idea for a new event or project? Let us know! Likewise, if you = want to help give SWG another successful year, we always need volunteers. O= ur Volunt= eer Page has up-to-date information on where we need volunteers the m= ost, for those who are interested.

Banner Contest

Digital = artists, we need your help! As SWG continues to grow, we have received requ= ests for banners that members and other groups can use to link to us on the= ir own sites and pages. Those of you with a knack for digital art and manip= s are invited to contribute banners. We would like to offer a variety to ch= oose from, so we will try to use them all. In the event that we receive so = many that we cannot feasibly post them all, we will present them to the gro= up for a vote.

There are a few things to keep in mind when designin= g your banners:

  • Please save the images as JPG files unless the= y involve animation. Animated images may be saved as GIF files.
  • Ban= ners should be no larger than 400 pixels wide by 150 pixels high.
  • B= anners should include the name "Silmarillion Writers' Guild" or "SWG" somew= here on them.
  • Images should be suitable for all audiences. Please, = no nudity or blood and gore.
  • Very important: Pleas= e use only your own artwork or get permission from the artist whose work yo= u're using. Artists should grant permission for you to use the image as wel= l as allow you to crop/modify it for the banner. They should understand tha= t the banner is being used by SWG and will be publicly available for other = Internet users to put on their pages. Unfortunately, it is not feasible for= us to give credit to the artists' whose work is being used in the banners.= A small copyright notice in an inconspicuous place on the banner is accept= able, but we reserve the right to determine what is acceptable for these pu= rposes. The copyright notice should not dominate or detract from the banner= . Please, no watermarks or large notices; we will not be able to display th= ese banners.
  • SWG moderators reserve the right to use our discretion= in choosing which banners to display.

Please send your banne= rs to moderator@s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org. We will reply within a few days to le= t you know that we've received your submission. If we do not reply, pleas= e query; the email may have been swallowed in a spam filter somewhere.

=

The due date for banner submissions is Monday, 1 October 2007.<= /strong>

Seven in '07 Is Completed

During the month of Jul= y, we honored the House of F=EBanor and, more specifically, the inspiration= it has provided to the Tolkien fan community. The Seven in '07 project was= a great success, featuring stories, poems, and images crafted by more than= two dozen Tolkien fans. We thank all who followed the project and especial= ly those who shared their time, energy, and talents so generously with us t= o make it possible.

If you haven't seen the finished project, we in= vite you to take a look! Seven in '07 now lives on our Special Projects page, w= here it can continue to be enjoyed by fans of the House of F=EBanor.

<= h3>Plagiarism Policy Demystified

A plagiarism policy is something w= e hope we'll never have to use ... but in the interest of protecting the au= thors who use our sites, we thought it would be a good idea to define and p= lan our response to plagiarism accusations. Plagiarism remains an unfortuna= te reality in the world of writing, and the Internet facilitates it. Both h= aving work stolen and being wrongfully accused of plagiarism are devastatin= g to an author.

This document defines how we will treat accusations= of plagiarism on SWG. What is plagiarism? What is not plagiarism?= What can authors do if they suspect that someone on SWG has stolen their w= ork? What are fair uses of another's work and how can authors protect thems= elves from being accused unfairly of plagiarism? These questions continue t= o be the subject of debate in the literary and academic communities.

<= p>The plagiarism document can be found here.

A= round the World and Web

F=EBanorian Feast

Our German membe= rs--or anyone wanting an excuse to travel--will be interested to know that = a F=EBanorian Feast is being held at Trutzburg at Altona on 22 September 20= 07, and there are still tickets left! Visit the Feanorisches Feuerfest for more details.

Ph= otographs of past events are available in Marja Kettner's Seven in '07 ga= llery.



Around the World and Web is provided for o= ur members to inform them of events in the larger Tolkien community. SWG is= not affiliated with and does not endorse the groups that we feature in Aro= und the World and Web, and we are not responsible for content on sites outs= ide of our own. Please use discretion and caution when visiting unfamiliar = sites on the Internet.

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--6-6049668162-7206934953=:0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1211 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29741 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2007 12:45:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2007 12:45:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.213) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Aug 2007 12:45:50 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n32.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Aug 2007 12:45:50 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Aug 2007 12:45:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Aug 2007 12:45:50 -0000 Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:45:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: MEFA Check Ballots Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=jOZ1dTyrFNvS1J0GgtuwlBdJ4MRSLdbjF3ImA2eqlom5snWMveVxKVM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard The first check ballot for the 2007 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards has been= posted. A check ballot lists the subcategories in each main category along= with what stories will be competing in those subcategories. You can find t= his first check ballot at http://community.livejournal.com/mefas/25025.html= All members of the fandom, and especially authors who have stories compet= ing in the awards, are encouraged to look over the check ballots. If you se= e a story you think has been wrongly placed, please comment at the LJ and w= e will consider moving it. Over the next week or so updated check ballots = will be posted at this LJ Keep an eye on http://community.livejournal.com/m= efas/ for the most up-to-date check ballot. Thanks for your participation= ! Marta (MEFA Admin.) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1212 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1724 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2007 14:47:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Aug 2007 14:47:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO qb-out-0506.google.com) (72.14.204.237) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Aug 2007 14:47:49 -0000 Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id e34so2185047qbe for ; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 07:47:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=SwXxXCBoMns/XfbsT7Ur7ulVRYsjGCqqmXoPKlTJCdRcV9o/ZRqaNv6qNh7nVPy3iSuFyQ5O9XXPr1wJe/0XVgULsEdcnj8ToXvwKMBq0Z0JFZfFZXhnO65ZReTqpx0LNCyNPhDo8bU+xtc2JkgXmCLuBdaTjHDwxEridaLEisw= Received: by 10.35.125.20 with SMTP id c20mr11752459pyn.1186498051147; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 07:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Aug 2007 07:47:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:47:31 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_117932_19108418.1186498050999" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Translating Site TOS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=64lBT0xPhTDTvAxlN_TFpo-klA6JuoUt4kEwjB6SDsj154lcWKAI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_117932_19108418.1186498050999-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1213 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67585 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2007 15:38:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Aug 2007 15:38:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.104) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Aug 2007 15:38:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 20064 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Aug 2007 15:04:27 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: tT2F6LoVM1nWA12YNNzOEqPhp8qN8zkM0pdSwKmE5qK4N9GYlM3azNg2xOqnOEPlA4B1AUHMSlwMSeM3MVTReKx9nhuAa1evXSOI8BOHOh1v5IV8_l8CdZo- Received: from [142.165.220.240] by web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:04:27 BST Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:04:27 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1186572885.382.46544.m39@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <391327.19554.qm@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Re: Translating Site TOS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=JKYQH5w-TMgTFIX0bz5PbRAiqkT8RgEbe-jrH-tdcSYWQDW5eg X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido > From: Dawn Felagund > Any language would be useful, no matter how > uncommon. Even if someone wants to take a stab at > Quenya or Sindarin, I'm game! ;) Will do. CGL http://elffetish.com/elffetish.html ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1214 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23589 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2007 15:53:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Aug 2007 15:53:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.176) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Aug 2007 15:53:38 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id d32so406308pye for ; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:53:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=t6Ucq+9yQlAAzkb+DzZZO0lYYznqt1lOMAtWz73qo9dQY31az1pKxeBW8TmR3KDcvdNRCzx0rdQDoUaw1pz0L1/ZnvfM534iPMv7guhRws9xheVRjDk6gVV4E2lAcheGMnMADDB7luk2/oLuL1L597uWWcctlAWFsNksrYLOjhQ= Received: by 10.35.49.4 with SMTP id b4mr1716046pyk.1186588399275; Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:53:19 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <391327.19554.qm@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2983_25003540.1186588399230" References: <1186572885.382.46544.m39@yahoogroups.com> <391327.19554.qm@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Translating Site TOS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=07xobTL32sG5IleZf2Asm_EhektTYVuLc2b4m1K4InFR18xWDkpW X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_2983_25003540.1186588399230-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1215 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25642 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2007 19:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2007 19:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2007 19:45:42 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 758623E80CF for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:45:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:45:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:45:37 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <447489673.20070816214537@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=1D_A50nO44n7COkAFkzPEniggFsjA0myDw73App0e1ygz_EzcmM X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> The supposed�brothers Irmo and Namo: In the Valaquenta in relation to hac> Irmo/Lorien it states there were two brother--Irmo and Namo and hac> Irmo was the younger brother. That seems a bit specific to me�to hac> empty�philosophical rambling about how all the Valar being hac> "brothers." I have no idea how they could have parents. OK hac> assuming they don't, Eru made them.�But how did he make them hac> brothers? I believe in the first legendary variants Valar had parents, later JRRT must have rejected that, at least in physical sense, as Ainur - who would have to be the parents - are not beings of E�. No idea if they are beings with physical bodies or pure intelligent energy of beautiful forms, nor what way their world looks like. But Ainur had male or female kind (not sex) before they have entered E� (I don't know where is the source of that information). In this case I believe they were created as brothers or are brothers because of the closeness of minds/powers etc. Manw� and Melko are brothers, either. Maybe all Ainur are brothers as kids of Eru? That is possible, too, but then why these two pairs were described as brothers and others don't? Here I fully agree with what MJ wrote on SoA list: > In some of his earlier versions of things, Tolkien did mention the > Falmarindi and the Winglidi, spirits or creatures of the foam and > the waves, but I believe that when he was in his phase of thinking > of the Ainur as "gods," in a rather Greco-Roman sense. When he > made his shift of thought away from that kind of mythic structure > to something more in keeping (at least in form) with his Roman > Catholic beliefs (something he apparently did when he stopped > referring to the Valar as "gods," except as a mistaken notion), > they became more akin to the pantheon of Judeo-Christian "angelic" > beings. And this is the difference between old, abandoned legendaries of BoLT and the legendary of LotR issues times, which is canonical for me, especially after the latest corrections Tolkien has done himself. hac> By that analogy the elves that awakened were their brothers too? This is possible, that JRRT just had a whim to create elves who are brothers without any reason as the having the same parents ;) But I believe he rather didn't think of connection between these two facts or had no time to correct/explain such detail. Also there was never said that the brothers we know were awakened not born. hac> I have heard the same problem raised in discussion hac> about whether or not elves said to be related were awakened or hac> born and the logic would indicate that then could not be First hac> elves, but Born elves.� That is my idea for the three kings - not awakened, but born, I believe there was enough time to have two generations of kids before Orom� found them. And enough time to mix the blood between elves divisions to have silver haired Miriel of Noldor and other phenomena ;) Most of those who awakened at the banks of Cuivi�nen probably never left them, but passed into the history as Avari. Curious youths, hunters were bold enough to travel with Orom� and later guide others through dangers to Aman. There by a coincidence/mistake/for fun/style their folks made them kings. That's my idea, not canonical info, of course. hac> Presuming the Valar are completely asexual and don't have any hac> bits and pieces, why do they go around taking wives--hmmm? What hac> is the point? Why not roommates, best friends, comrades? Because they master female and male powers, as everything in E� is divided into female and male form and they always complete each other and only combined together are on their highest might - like Manw� who is stronger when Varda is behind him and vice versa (LOL, I've forgotten who of them see further). Wife and husband is just ceremonial title, they could be brother or sister as well. Yin and Yang. But maybe it was easier for Eldar to understand when Valar were introduced as wife and husband. At least that's the way Eldar noted their titles, coming to the plot conspiracy theory and fiction inside of fiction - who in truth have written down all these stories? Are we reading texts written by elves of Aman, or copiers made by other nations of other ages? What could a Hobbit understand from the ancient stories when he wrote all down? As if I remember well what we know as LotR and Silmarillion was written down by Bilbo into the Red Book of Westmarch and we've got it translated into English by Tolkien, brought to the translator by the Anglo-Saxon mariner or another non-Aman elf type. You know history became legend, legend became a myth etc. I don't remember now the whole intrigue of the history - was the book translated by Aelfwine or by someone else, but the text we read inside of Tolkien's legendary went through many hands which changed it depending on their knowledge, understanding and will. Conspiracy and fiction inside of fiction aside, Valarin marriages are left form the early legendary stages when Valar were of flesh and bones and had kids. But as I said this idea was abandoned, as hordes of balrogs turned into a few mighty Maiar on the side of evil. Yet marriage still serves as being union of complementary powers. hac> I guess what I am trying to say is however logical one may hac> try to make these theological discussions, they will always hac> eventually hit a snag. As all will, because Tolkien left too many things not finished. Yet he has left hints of what he still considered canonical in the end of his life and what was rather a fairy tale. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1216 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76768 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2007 21:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2007 21:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2007 21:14:15 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD325801A for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:13:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:13:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:13:06 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1129623205.20070816231306@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Annatar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=lJVtmyulrtrGIEsr-Inq2hjeJKbOCsTtPm2REQCdd_ashrcGN2c X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> And, of course, I love to hate Tyellas�s Annatar That's the best Annatar ever in characterization and personality. I love to hate him :D [He has beaten me twice already, but I'll win one day!] And of course he is pout of my Valar/Maiar verse, no doubt. Still gorgeous creation hard to forget. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1217 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92662 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2007 22:25:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2007 22:25:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2007 22:25:07 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12.go2.pl [193.17.41.142]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 76604232939 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:11:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7205A3E80C5 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:57:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:57:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:57:49 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1959282636.20070816225749@tlen.pl> To: Marta In-Reply-To: <998429f80707310852u649c432eh3a311754d9825f66@mail.gmail.com> References: <992239822.20070731160225@tlen.pl> <998429f80707310852u649c432eh3a311754d9825f66@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=brYdIXmFo4VVnhykkIZEsLyX2u4yTbqe-AOp6pAHEmJGeClgrG0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Marta, M> If anyone is interested: Come Back to Me, M> http://telperion-fic.livejournal.com/35278.html. Haven't had a chance to read it, yet, but will peer there, thank you for the link. M> Well.... Melkor was not evil before he entered time (like, in the M> Ainulindale), but I'm not sure that counts. That's great idea - entering the time! M> Philosophically, it's hard to talk about something being absolutely one way or another unless M> it's acting within the bounds of time. Time means the possibility of M> change, and not changing ever makes it absolutely one way or the M> other. Certainly once he's within Ea Melkor seems consistently evil. M> That may be one definition of "absolutely evil". And with such definition I would agree - he is not changing. M> Another definition would be "as evil as it's possible to be". I don't M> think that's possible, because it seems like in Ea it's always M> possible to sink a little lower. Or at least, as time goes on it's M> possible to accumulate more evil (and do more evil than you end up M> doing). If it makes sense to talk about "absolute evil" in this sense, M> then all the time Melkor spent chained up or hiding in his fortress M> was missed opportunities to do more evil, and so Melkor wasn't M> absolute evil because he could have been even more evil. That's interesting idea, too. But would he still be almost the absolute evil if he ever felt doubt if what he does is the right thing, if he felt regret? Does absolute evil have got such thoughts at all? In the end - would absolute evil feel fear? Impossible. And Morgoth was the only Vala who felt fear. M> Eru cannot be absolute evil because he wills both evil and good. So M> even in the first sense I discussed, even if he were to enter into M> time, he wouldn't be absolutely evil. As for the second sense, every M> time he allows good to happen rather than evil, he's less evil than he M> could have been so I don't think he's absolutely evil. Another very good point. My idea was that if there is anyone to be blamed for evil on E� and in the whole world created by Eru it's only Eru himself, as the source of everything, the source of Good and Evil. E� exists because of him, beings feel joy and suffer because of him. M> If there is absolute evil, it's in the snese of concepts that are M> always wrong to do, no matter what the circumstances. That might be the absolute evil in a sense of power, will, not a being, a character. M> But aside from these general principles, I don't think any character or race is M> absolute evil. Just like I don't think Melkor is absolute evil. I simply can't imagine a being who is so condemned to the evil side that never ever feels and wants anything different then evil emotions, thoughts, deeds. M> Well, I don't tend to be a great Valar apologist, I think they mess up M> any situation they get involved in, but I don't know this is due to M> weaknesses, more to lack of understanding. They have a hard time M> empathizing with lower races and act in what they think are their best M> interests, but it doesn't tend to work out that way. They are rather naive not knowing evil at all. I just remembered now that Manw� was not able to comprehend the evil: "(...) it seemed to Manw� that the evil of Melkor was cured. For Manw� was free from evil and could not comprehend it, and he knew that in the beginning, in the thought of Il�vatar, Melkor had been even as he; and he saw not to the depths of Melkor�s heart, and did not perceive that all love had departed from him for ever." [Silmarillion, Of F�anor and the Unchaining of Melkor] Oh well, all love has departed from Melkor's heart for ever. Then Melkor could not be absolute evil if he had any love in his heart before. M> And they're not used to being told "no". That's something I never thought if. Maybe when they order something, but they usually give other beings a choice. M> The exception are the Valar like the Istari, Sauron-as-Annatar, and M> Melian. They took on human bodies long term, and Melian settled into M> hers so thoroughly she even had a kid. Maiar. Istari were put into human bodies with all their weaknesses and needs, could not use their full might, that was sort of order they got. Melian took a body of elven woman to became Elw�'s wife and bear the child. She has clearly changed her form and lost some of her powers with that. And probably got weaker after the child's birth as every elven woman does, yet the Girdle of Melian was still working. Really powerful Maia. Sauron used to change his form till he has lost this ability with drowning of the Numenore. Yet he has got his dark/black hand with a missing finger in the War of the Ring times, it looks like he could slowly rebuilt his body with time even after loosing the ring. Just it took him much longer time than in the past and he could never take a fair form, just like Melkor after hanging out with Ungolinat (poor boy kept with a woman too evil even for him, thus he can't be absolute evil again). M> I think that if the Valar completely embraced a physical form and accepted it as their true M> self, then they became much momre like the created races and so M> understood them better. That is possible, in such forms they would truly feel what does it mean to live a life as a being of flesh and bones tided to Arda for ever. Yet they would lost all their powers that way, so it was impossible. Also: "In any case is it likely or possible that even the least of the Maiar would become Orcs? Yes: both outside Arda and in it, before the fall of Utumno. Melkor had corrupted many spirits - some great, as Sauron, or less so, as Balrogs. The least could have been primitive (and much more powerful and perilous) Orcs; but by practising when embodied procreation they would (cf. Melian) [become] more and more earthbound, unable to return to spirit-state (even demon-form), until released by death (killing), and they would windle in force." [MR, s.409/410] Taking a mortal/immortal temporary body which can procreate meant loosing powers and ability to change shape/come back to demonic/Maiarin forms. One more argument against Valarin procreation in a human bodily sense. "When released they would, of course, like Sauron, be 'damned': i.e. reduced to impotence, infinitely recessive: still hating but unable more and more to make it effective physically (or would not a very dwindled dead Orc-state be a poltergeist?)." [MR, s.409/410] That's interesting, I haven't noticed it before - "reduced to impotence" - are we still talking about procreation? What doesn't men - Sauron has been damned - reduced to impotence. Or maybe that's metaphor of being able to create with power? Tolkien should have written HoME in Polish, traitor. M> I do think that for most of the Valar the bodies would be temporary M> things, a way to give them forms so they could interact with other M> races and when it served their purposes. Yes it is and that's the idea I follow. And now after that bite about procreation I am sure of that. M> This is hinted at, I think in the Ainulindale or the Valaquenta, where it says that for the Valar, M> their bodies were like our clothes. And here - they robe, clothe themselves: 'Living things in Aman. As the Valar would robe themselves like the Children, many of the Maiar robed themselves like there lesser living things, as trees, flowers, beasts. (Huan.)' " [MR, p.412] "But true 'rational' creatures, 'speaking peoples', are all of human / 'humanoid' form. Only the Valar and Maiar are intelligences that can assume forms of Arda at will." [MR, s.409/410] "These are the names of the Valar and the Valier, and here is told in brief their likenesses, such as the Eldar beheld them in Aman. But fair and noble as were the forms in which they were manifest to the Children of Il�vatar, they were but a veil upon their beauty and their power. " [Silmarillion, Valaquenta] "Now the Valar took to themselves shape and hue; and because they were drawn into the World by love of the Children of Il�vatar, for whom they hoped, they took shape after that manner which they had beheld in the Vision of Il�vatar, save only in majesty and splendour. Moreover their shape comes of their knowledge of the visible World, rather than of the World itself; and they need it not, save only as we use raiment, and yet we may be naked and suffer no loss of our being. Therefore the Valar may walk, if they will, unclad, and then even the Eldar cannot clearly perceive them, though they be present. But when they desire to clothe themselves the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby. But the shapes wherein the Great Ones array themselves are not at all times like to the shapes of the kings and queens of the Children of Il�vatar; for at times they may clothe themselves in their own thought, made visible in forms of majesty and dread." [Silmarillion, Ainulindal�] I think that last quotation also answers why there are female and male kind and wives and husbands among the Valar. M> I do not think the Valar had children the way Elves and Men did, M> unless they allowed themselves to be tied to their bodies like Melian M> did by living in the same one for years and years. They would stay in such bodies for ever until got killed, as the embodied Maiar, unable to serve with their true powers for Arda. That is impossible in their case. M> The Valar are not given the ability to create (the story with Aule and the Dwarves M> illustrates this), but Elves and Men can create through sex and (in the case of elves at least) giving a part of their spirit to the M> child. So unless the hroa and fea of a vala became knit together like they are in Elves, I don't think this kind of procreation would be M> possible. Totally agree. They need another Spirits to take bodies they created if these are meant to be beings with souls - like Eagles: "$169 (...) 'Manw� however sent Maia spirits in Eagle form to dwell near Thangorodrim and keep watch on all that Melkor did and assist the Noldor in extreme cases.' On the Eagles as Maiar see pp. 409 - 11." [MR p. 137-138] M> This is actually something I go into in the story that I linked at the M> top of this email--that the Ainur are not attached enough to a certain M> form and aren't changed by time the way the Eruhini are, and so they M> cannot fall in love with each other in the same way we do (it would be M> a genuine change to their truest character). In my story they need a M> created being to give them an "anchor" of sorts. That's my own M> invention, not in canon anywhere, but I found it a fun idea to play M> with. Now I'm really curious about your story :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1218 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19892 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2007 01:24:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2007 01:24:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2007 01:24:33 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 469713E8061 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:24:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:24:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:24:19 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1411607717.20070817032419@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <992239822.20070731160225@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Let's discuss the Powers or Morgoth has no penis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ZDLgL8CFoCX2qPRW6wvn5s5lz_pwZ0tT-1AK0NEpGUFC3WvOY_Y X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> First of all, Sirielle, your title made me laugh out loud! I almost made a similar one today, but it might not work again ;) DF> I don't think Melkor was absolute evil. He wasn't, that is certain with every letter on lists I red today. DF> I have trouble seeing "good" or "evil" at all on Arda, based on Eru's comments to the DF> Valar in Ainulindale. In The Silmarillion, Eru says: DF> "And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that DF> hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music DF> in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine DF> instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he DF> himself hath not imagined." And doesn't it prove that Eru is evil? He lets his fav spoiled kid act in an insolent way which will benefit for the daddy in the end. Psychopathic daddy who will not aid suffering kids but observe them without emotions and in the end ask if they learned anything from that situation? Brrr ;) Not being terribly serious, but a part of me hates all the gods of the world for that and poor Allfather gets spanks in their name. DF> This is expanded upon in The Music of the Ainur in BoLT1. DF> Ainulindale was heavily based on this, probably more than any DF> other "final" copy on its first draft. It pretty much elaborates DF> on this idea: Is this the book with Ainulindal� A, B and C? One of them is supposed to be the most valid option, not necessarily the Silm one. *checking* Nope, these are in the Morgoth's Ring, I haven't red them yet, nor the BoLT versions. DF> This has always said to me that no matter what is done to DF> undo that which is good in the world--whether by one as great and DF> powerful as Melkor or little twerps like Gollum--that it all comes DF> to the same end, which is what Eru wants and has declared will be. Because all was sung in the Music of Ainur ;) That's the final explanation to every why, if there is no other, in the end only Atani have got totally free will, all the rest of beings of Arda is tied to it and to the music. DF> Presumably, then, everything leads to Good with a Capital G, since DF> Eru identifies himself with light, no matter how evil it seems. True. Still I don't like the way he designed things, creating handicapped beings who will eventually reach the designed Good goal, but through mistakes and suffering. The creation always says something about the creator. DF> I've always seen the acts of "evil" in the stories, then, as DF> different, darker paths to the same end. The victims of evil may DF> not be able to see or understand them as such, but they lead to DF> the same place as acts of good and--according to Music DF> anyway--will lead to greater joy in and appreciation of life in DF> the end. Agree. I'm still nitpicking poor Eru - but if it's his world why does he let such paths exist at all? It's all his thought, mind, light? Apart that if the book told us only about the happy elves living happily in happy realms we would not be discussing it here ;) DF> I was watching the DF> Discovery Channel Shark Week last night. (Yes, feel free to laugh; Why!? What is to laugh about it? I watch Travel Channel (when I remember that there is TV at home) and love it, especially Glob Trotter, so why not sharks at Discovery :) OK, but the scientist didn't make the shark suffer pointlessly to give him a lesson or for an unknown future Goal, the scientist also didn't create the shark, they are both victims of another Eru who made them as they are and put into a situation where one has to hurt another to bring help. While Tolkien's Eru created Arda with help of beings he has brought to life earlier and let it became marred. As the Creator of everything he could have stopped it before it has happened and let Ainur create the ideal Arda as it supposed to be. Why did he let to mar it? Maybe it was his real goal. Then he is promising 'Arda Healed' to his kids, but is it real promise or just a white lie to make his kids feel better? Or maybe Mandos himself is a victim and it's only his imagination, not real prophecy? I guess the author who wrote down that book is to blame, but we can't really blame him, it's all his Creator's fault ;) DF> An orphan whose parents were murdered by the DF> Feanorians at Alqualonde isn't going to necessarily see or DF> understand that the kinslaying was necessary to get the Noldor to DF> Middle-earth, where they will spend several glorious centuries DF> making life miserable for Morgoth, where Idril will meet Tuor and DF> have Earendil, which would not have happened if the Noldor DF> remained in Beleriand. A victim of Morgoth's attack on Gondolin DF> (which began with Maeglin's treachery) isn't going to see the DF> necessity of Gondolin falling to release Earendil in time and in a DF> manner where he can meet Elwing, take the Silmaril, produce Elrond DF> and Elros, and bring aid to Middle-earth from Aman. And all of that could be reduced to a happy harmony if Eru had more insight into his fav son and didn't spoil him, but taught what is love. Yet Melko learned only what is possessing things and being in thye center, and terribly wanted the toys daddy suddenly forbid him. The fav son fell, devoid of daddy's love, condemned to live among mutilated grotesque creatures and had to deal with that short-tmepered Noldor. DF> So I have trouble seeing "absolute evil" in something that DF> will inevitably lead to Good with a Capital G, i.e. what Eru DF> ordains. And Melkor understands this, surely; the comment was DF> directed at him. Really? Then why he keeps repeating the same mistakes and chooses evil side constantly, despite all the chances he gets? Or maybe he does all the evil to hurt Eru as much as he can, powerless to do any Real thing/damage which is not according to Eru's plan. Even all the hurt he does doesn't hurt Eru anyway, for it will be Good in the end. Melko also can't do anything other than evil, for if he did any Good he would let Eru win the game right away, he just got black pawns in their game of ches, doomed to lose it in the final tunes of the Great Music. And who knows, he might evnen fail to be good, there is a reason why Eru created him incapable to feel love and compassion. Imagine being Malkor and knowing, that what ever you do will bring glory to your opponent, just because he dictates the rules. You are a toy performing for him and have to play your rotten role. Any victory you make is illusion and you really hate yourself, your life and the whole world, and in the end what ever you do the play will end up with your total failure. Even after that final spectacular kicking the Sun out of the Sky a scanty Mortal, who you ruined and condemned in the past, will take your life. A Mortal will defeat once the most powerful of the Ainur/Valar. No wonder Morgoth tries to make life of others more miserable than his is. Oh, and I've forgotten of the never healing scars after an eagle and an elf. Melkor, a victim of never ending humiliation.� DF> In Ainulindale, about how the Valar appear to Elves and Men: DF> "Moreover their shape comes of their knowledge of the visible DF> World, rather than of the World itself;" Like in the 'Space Odyssey 2001' final - things just looked like they would look on Earth, but weren't the real cereal nor milk in essence - if I remember well. Like toys imitating real things,m but you can't really open doors, nor there is no enging in a little car toy. The same as I understand it Valar take bodies which look like real bodies but they are not such, you will find no veins and bones inside until it's necessary to show them, etc. I don't know if Tolkien foreseen such interpretation, though ;) DF> "and they need it not, save only as we use raiment, and yet we may be naked and suffer no loss DF> of our being. Therefore the Valar may walk, if they will, unclad, DF> and then even the Eldar cannot clearly perceive them, though they DF> be present." A raiment. I believe when they walk without raiments the distance in time and space becomes different for them, as they have no physical form to be stopped by the laws of gravity etc. That's why I believe elves had to cross the Helcarax�, while Valar without bodies might just move from Aman to Endore and manifest themselves right in the place of destination. Yet there must have been some activities which forced them to use bodies - Orom� was hunting Melkor's beast is a bodily form. I guess interactions with embodied beings forced Valar to take bodies either, but haven't thought it well, yet. DF> "But when they desire to clothe themselves the Valar DF> take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for DF> that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and DF> it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the DF> choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the DF> raiment but is not made thereby." Because their power and nature is male or female, not physical manifestation of the raiment. DF> "But the shapes wherein the Great Ones array themselves are not at all times like to the shapes of DF> the kings and queens of the Children of Il�vatar; for at times DF> they may clothe themselves in their own thought, made visible in DF> forms of majesty and dread." Bodieless Ulmo in the seas, Valar in Wrath attacking Utumno, etc. DF> I've always taken this to mean that the Ainur choose DF> corporeal forms when interacting with others of those forms (Elves DF> and Men) but can take other forms or no form at all. That's it. DF> The Ainur were�male and female from the beginning and tend to embody DF> themselves as such, presumably with the anatomical (and genetic?) DF> features typical of their gender. If they have a goal in it - but there is no need for Varda do have female genitals. Or for the Spirit of Fire like Arien, a naked flame in her real Ardan form. What for? They are just looking like a women to please Eldar or spare them awkward feelings. Genetic? They have no bodies nor genes ;) To have genes they would have to take a body not raiment on - that is the difference, to take really a body as Melian did or too look like having one. Like in Le Guin's word - to use a spell to tunrn oneself into a bird or to create an illusion of being a bird. DF> But the clothes do not give the person his or her gender, just as the anatomy DF> (presumably) does not give the Ainur their genders. Both are just DF> representative of it. Of course, I agree. DF> I would take this to mean that they have all of the anatomy DF> of their gender ... so yes, I'd say that Morgoth has a penis. :) If he wanted to impress males of flesh and bone and feed hius pride? If elves shared stupid complexes of Mortal men, I don't think so. But they admired beauty in every form, so Melkor's penis in a non sexual way would be another piece of art. And that is the only reason why he would have it in Aman in his fair form - to be ideal picture of beauty unattainable for a mere Elda. Being once (and in his own mind always) the greatest Vala obliges to keep flawless appearance. He is greedy and jealous and judging by that thinks others are such either, so will try to make them desire and envy his beauty. Clearly he didn't remember/heard what Teleri did with the jewels Noldor presented them. But finally he managed to taught Noldor to be greedy, especially the one he hated the most. Not because of the perfect penis, though ;) Perhaps Eru implemented a seed of jealousness and greediness in every of his mostt alented creations, it just had to be awakened, so they would never overgrew their creator. I wonder if Silmarili were in plan or some way F�anor managed to put in awe even the Allfather. If so - was he jealous of little Noldo's creation? Or he does have no feelings at all? DF> Unless he chose to body himself without one, though I can't think DF> of reason why he would not. To have no useless limbs here and there, especially when he takes his warfare forms, all the energy would go to create taugh, powerful, resistant body and armour. I bet he woud even make himself a part of his armour - as he managed to shape the Iron Mountains what a problem to incorporte iron in his own body. DF> (To keep from having to wear a cup DF> when playing rugby with Manwe? ;))) Explanation for a rugby N00b? DF> In Myths Transformed ("Orcs"): DF> "Only the Valar and Maiar are intelligences that can assume forms of Arda at will." DF> So I suppose he could leave it off, if he wanted. Melkor? None of the Valar, they were bound to Arda in a moment they entered E� and took their forms of that world - different to their Ainur forms. I believe the foirms they had outside and indide of Ea were different in power and manifestation. I don't know what the difference was, but I'm sure both bodies were energy, on Arda covered with garments if necessary, but not real bodies as the bodies of lower beings. And the lower body a Spirit took, the lesser his powers were and possibility to change it. For example it looks like Maiar once they chose their dreadful demonic form known as balrogs they could never leave it. There is a price one has to pay for some powers, or a curse coming with some of them. So no, entering E� meant staying there for ever, till it exists. A kind of golden trap. Yet Most of Valar and Maiar came there out of love thus stayed and served as Powers to care for it. It was a real trap for the evils spirits condemned to have their pitiful life there in a shadow and hindrance. Also Melkor could change his form and did so till - as I said once or twice - had a 'date' with Ungoliant and gave her too much of his power and since then had to stay in his dreadful dark form. (But I believe still could change his height in it, for example to hang in an easy way a Noldo over the peak of Thangorodrim.) The boy was quite wasteful when it came to give power to his tools/minions. Well - there is always a price to pay for a powerful tool, and in this very case quite dangerous tool for the Vala. He has lied to a dangerous woman and got what he deserved ;> Varda frightened and rejected him, Arien blinded and Ungolinat marred. DF> I don't think only in front of the Children of Eru ... but if DF> memory serves correctly (and often, it does not), they do tend to DF> wear their bodies in front of the Children to keep from DF> frightening them. I think I read that somewhere; I will try to DF> find it later. Now, I've gone on too long as is. :) Yes, for their true forms are incomprehensible for lower beings. Arien was too broight for Eldar in her true Ardan form: "Arien the maiden was mightier than he, and she was chosen because she had not feared the heats of Laurelin, and was unhurt by them, being from the beginning a spirit of fire, whom Melkor had not deceived nor drawn to his service. Too bright were the eyes of Arien for even the Eldar to look on, and leaving Valinor she forsook the form and raiment which like the Valar she had worn there, and she was as a naked flame, terrible in the fullness of her splendour." [S., Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor] DF> On procreation (again MT, "Orcs"): DF> "The least could have been primitive (and much more powerful DF> and perilous) Orcs; but by practising when embodied procreation DF> they would (cf. Melian) [become] more and more earthbound, unable DF> to return to spirit-state (even demon-form), until released by DF> death (killing), and they would dwindle in force." I just gave this example in the other post ;) This declines any form of procreation to Valar, whose powers are to serve Arda, they can't waste them as Melkor did. Good Eru, what a terrible thought - have Melko ever tried to procreate? ;> He used to break all the rules. And he just lost his ability to change form after meeting Ungolinat... Grotesque Loki and Angrboda of Arda ;) DF> I do recommend reading Myths Transformed. It's a fascinating DF> document, featuring�the Ainur as space aliens, Varda's retractable DF> biodome, and a rather disturbing story about Melkor and Arien that DF> is reminiscent of some of the darker fanfics I've seen (though DF> definitely less graphic). I've only read it once and need to read DF> it again; it's not one of the documents on which I'm most DF> comfortable. But it is intriguing and well worth the couple hours DF> it takes to read! Will do, for sure :) DF> Now, I have rambled far too long! Keebler Elf cookies and DF> backrubs from Maedhros to anyone who has made it this far! I made, but have no idea what Keebler Elf cookies are. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1219 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41697 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2007 10:14:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Aug 2007 10:14:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.217) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2007 10:14:40 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug 2007 10:04:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug 2007 10:04:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Aug 2007 10:04:36 -0000 Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:04:35 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: MEFA Announcement: Let the Reviewing Begin! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=yTNukE1g22_fB7hjF708eUeNfXWUM6kupx3BeBw2yYsVBflVEHl5pxg X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard On behalf of Marta, I am passing along the following: Hey guys, The 2007 = Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards is moving along. The category and subcategor= y assignments for this year's awards are now visible at our website, www.me= fawards.net/MEFA2007/ . Between now and December 30, the primary focus of t= he awards will be reviewing. Any nominated author or member of the MEFAwa= rds Yahoo group can vote for any of the stories nominated for this year's a= wards. You still have several months to review stories, so if you'd like to= get involved please join the Yahoo group so you can vote for your favorite= stories. To vote for a story you will need to write a review of it that wi= ll be displayed at our website; the longer review the more points you earn = your story, up to a maximum of ten points for 1,000 characters. If you're= interested in participating in these awards, please check out http://commu= nity.livejournal.com/mefas/26022.html Here you'll find important deadlines= as well as links to some FAQs useful to voters. Happy reviewing! Marta (M= EFA Admin) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1220 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53181 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2007 02:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2007 02:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.183) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2007 02:41:10 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u52so2276911pyb for ; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:41:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=rlcKXybLsU6NTu+d9XkmX8MeavNHn0wnKysY85aSfZi9dhyzLgU5NBuX84btzJiLnU63gB3vaZiuR+jyOBmsndPP/J1pk8i1Wt1DT2rgZQ0fxaI+yYtqCD87lrZ3nfayo79hojuf2xgXoqkbb3RhOu4QfBefy6sH6xScTWZBM84= Received: by 10.35.91.1 with SMTP id t1mr8203041pyl.1187663459982; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.89.12 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:30:59 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_150277_31631892.1187663459935" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Story/Database Backups X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=tMMIi8cS2LacS4PwlUSJ4Jze8Rh4w0U2JOLEp80eX47I2i_fG1Ot X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_150277_31631892.1187663459935-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1221 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61982 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2007 13:33:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2007 13:33:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.176) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 2007 13:33:58 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so2042756pyb for ; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 06:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.99.5 with SMTP id b5mr4854030pym.1188048828507; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 06:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.89.12 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 06:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:33:48 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_39559_6558951.1188048828474" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Archive Problems X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=OwXjvxvlq23ShOWV9rzxrhkw5_iFGt1x1qjD6oPjLWmTThWV8cLY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_39559_6558951.1188048828474-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1222 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56733 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2007 14:02:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2007 14:02:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.176) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 2007 14:02:39 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so2062028pyb for ; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 07:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.124.8 with SMTP id b8mr7353772qbn.1188050559312; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 07:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.89.12 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Aug 2007 07:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:02:39 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_39687_32454558.1188050559263" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: False Alarm! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=esl7DsRaaoahWuE4cmhYmkGKSswS4gcESVmHaHUzMhfZL3mgX6t7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_39687_32454558.1188050559263-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1223 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58628 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2007 20:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2007 20:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.125) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2007 20:44:48 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 20:44:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 20:44:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 20:44:46 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:44:45 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9-6755040435-5929488615=:1" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: September 2007 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=i1UXYhnePa37T3hIn991P1QygxePpNqjE0Si8JXbIkAAqny3lgA6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --9-6755040435-5929488615=:1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Read it on the website here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/n= ewsletter.php September's Challenges Forbidden Lore She knows that the i= nformation she seeks is secret, forbidden. Great consequences may arise fro= m this knowledge. Yet she opens the book, turns the page, and begins to rea= d ... This challenge asks you to consider knowledge that is forbidden or t= aboo. What sorts of information might have been hidden over the course of t= he history of Arda? Why might a character wish to discover this knowledge? = And perhaps most importantly, what are the consequences when he does? There= are a multitude of possibilities, but here are just a few to get you start= ed. * Knowledge about a certain craft is considered secret. Maybe it i= s the making of lembas by the Yavannildi or the secret behind the Silmarils= or the Rings of Power. Your characters seeks, and finds, this information.= What will she do with it? * Or maybe it is a dark secret in the histor= ies being hidden. A Noldorin child in Middle-earth first learns of the Kins= laying ... or a Noldorin child left behind in Aman first hears about his ex= iled kin. A descendant of Uldor learns of his relationship to the infamous = traitor. An Avarin child discovers stories about the light of Aman, forsake= n by his ancestors. * What about culture and tradition? Essays such as = "Laws and Customs among the Eldar" are fan favorites, but do they tell the = whole story? What might have been hidden from the loremasters collecting th= is information? What are the real customs among different clans of Elves, M= en, Dwarves, and Ainur? What notable exceptions to cultural mores may have = been hidden throughout history to preserve the reputations of peoples and f= amilies? * Or keep it simple! A child is due to receive a special gift = and learns where it is hidden. Does she look? What does she find? Or a youn= g adult discovers the privileges and pursuits allowed only to adults. What= will forbidden lore teach you? Quote of the Month Few of the Eldar ever le= arned to speak Valarin, even haltingly; among the people as a whole only a = small number of words or names became widely known. F=EBanor indeed, before= the growth of his discontent, is said to have learned more of this tongue = than any others before his time, and his knowledge must at any rate have fa= r surpassed the little that is now recorded; but what he knew he kept to hi= mself, and he refused to transmit it even to the Lambengolmor because of hi= s quarrel with the Valar. Quendi and Eldar, The History of Middle-earth, Vo= lume 11 Character of the Month: Elrond Elrond Half-Elven of all of Tolkie= n's elves might be the one most widely known to his readers, whether they p= refer the epic tales of The Silmarillion or the more novelistic approach of= The Lord of the Rings. He is additionally one of few characters who plays = a significant role in both of those books and in The Hobbit as well. The ma= jor events in the life of Elrond tie together the main threads of Tolkien's= great history from the First Age through the Fourth Age. Elrond is a major= symbol of the meshed and undividable fate of Elves and Men in Middle-earth= throughout those four Ages. Elrond played a principal role not only in the= long fight against Sauron in the Third Age and finally the destruction of = the One Ring as recounted in The Lord of the Rings, but his personal histor= y points directly back to the earliest events of the First Age as described= in The Silmarillion. Elrond and his brother Elros were the only children = of Elwing (daughter of Dior, the son of Beren and L=FAthien ) and E=E4rendi= l (son of Idril of the Noldor, daughter of Turgon, and Tuor of the Edain). = Thus, unique in Tolkien's legendarium, Elrond's ancestry includes Noldor, S= indar, Vanyar, and Maiar blood. He is as well a descendent of all three Hou= ses of the Edain. Through his brother Elros, Elrond recognized a bond of ki= nship with the N=FAmen=F3rean heirs to the kingship of Gondor and Arnor. Of= special interest to the confirmed aficionado of The Silmarillion is his un= usual relationship with the sons of F=EBanor. The father of Elrond and Elro= s, E=E4rendil the Mariner, was absent on one of his many sea voyages when t= he surviving sons of F=EBanor decided to attack the community of exiles of = Doriath and Gondolin at the havens of Sirion in an attempt to acquire the S= ilmaril that Beren and L=FAthien had wrested from Morgoth. It had been snat= ched from their grasp when Elwing had fled with it after the death of Dior.= Rather than relinquish the stone, Elwing had thrown herself from a cliff i= nto the sea still holding onto it, leaving her sons Elrond and Elros defens= eless behind her. In the words of The Silmarillion, "Maglor took pity upon= Elros and Elrond, and he cherished them, and love grew after between them.= " Maglor, most likely in the company of Maedhros, fostered the two boys for= an extended period of time. Meanwhile, Elrond's mother Elwing did not die= but had been rescued from the sea by Ulmo, and taking the form of a bird w= ith the Silmaril on her breast, sought and found the vessel of her husband = E=E4rendil. Reunited, the couple sailed to Valinor, with E=E4rendil bearing= the Silmaril upon his forehead to light their way. Successful in reaching = the shores of Eldamar, E=E4rendil was intent upon approaching the Valar and= begging for their mercy and their aid to the Elves and Men of Middle-earth= who, at the cost of incalculable sacrifice and despite great heroism, were= slowly losing the battle to protect Middle-earth from the ravages of Morgo= th. The Valar were moved by E=E4rendil's efforts and ruled that E=E4rendil = and Elwing could chose between the mortal and Elven kindreds. E=E4rendil's = ship was transformed so that each night he sailed the skies bearing the Sil= maril, becoming the brightest star. The Valar extended the right to choose = between the life of Men and that of the Elves not only to E=E4rendil and El= wing, but also to their offspring. In response to the pleas of E=E4rendil,= the Valar did decide to finally extend their assistance to the exiled Nold= or and the Second Born by organizing an expedition to Middle-earth to defea= t Morgoth in the War of Wrath. At the end of the War of Wrath, Elros and El= rond, who by then had been returned to their kindred, were asked by the Val= ar to make their choice. Elrond chose to remain with the Eldar and his brot= her chose the Edain. Elros left the shores of Middle-earth to become the fi= rst king of N=FAmenor. Elendil was one of his descendants. Elrond pledged = himself to Ereinion Gil-galad, the last High King of the Noldor, then rulin= g from Lindon, and went on to participate in the significant battles of the= Second Age. It was Elrond who led the troops of Gil-galad against Sauron i= n Eregion where, vastly outnumbered, the elves were defeated, yet at signif= icant cost to their enemy as well. Elrond also served as Gil-galad's herald= and second in command of the elven forces in the Battle of Dagorlad in the= Last Alliance of Elves and Men. Everyone who has read The Lord of the Ring= s or seen the recent films is familiar with the story of how Elrond unsucce= ssfully pled with Elendil's eldest son Isildur to destroy the One Ring afte= r he had taken it from Sauron in that battle. Before Gil-galad was killed a= t Dagorlad, he had given Vilya, the most powerful of the three rings of the= Elves, also called the Ring of Air, to Elrond for safekeeping. After the = Last Alliance, Elrond wed Celebrian, daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn, an= d the tales of their children, Elladan, Elrohir, and Arwen, feature promine= ntly in the events of The Lord of the Rings. The story of Arwen and Aragorn= , of course, harks back to the choice given by the Valar first to E=E4rendi= l and Elwing, then to Elrond and Elros, and passing through Elrond to his c= hildren. Much of the poignancy of Arwen's decision to renounce Elven immort= ality and cast her lot with Aragorn is based upon Elrond's loss of his brot= her Elros an Age before. Throughout the Third Age, it was Elrond's haven i= n Rivendell that served as an oasis in darkening times. Elrond not only hel= ped to preserve the line of N=FAmen=F3rean kings in Middle-earth but additi= onally brought together in discussion, including in the White Council, thos= e who sought to defend Middle-earth against Sauron. Elrond became known in = those years as a great healer and loremaster. For most of the Third Age, El= rond stood at the center of the struggle of the free peoples of Middle-eart= h through his commitment and well-cultivated connections to Elves, Men, Dwa= rves, and Hobbits. One of his principal supporters in that endeavor was the= Istar Gandalf. In modern terms, Elrond was the facilitator, organizer, and= coordinator of information whose efforts largely enabled the Ring Quest to= set out and in doing so significantly contributed to its success. After th= e destruction of the One Ring, Elrond sailed with Gandalf, Galadriel, and t= he remainder of the Noldor left in Middle-earth. The fate of his sons Ellad= an and Elrohir is not covered in Tolkien's stories. But the departure of El= rond harkened the end of the days of the Elves in Middle-earth and the begi= nning of the Age of Men. Character profile by Oshun. View past character = profiles . Read archived stories about Elrond . = Want more challenges? Check out our complete challenge listing for more than two yea= rs' worth of challenges to inspire your writing! Have an idea for a challe= nge? Some of our most popular challenges have been created by you, the memb= ers of SWG! If you have a plotbunny gnawing at your ankle, a favorite quote= , or a favorite character that you think might inspire others as well, plea= se send an email to moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org and we'll try to include your challenge in= our next newsletter! September's News New to the Reference Section We've = begun archiving our monthly character profiles in order to make them more a= ccessible for reading and research. The complete listing of biographies may= be found on the Character Biographies page in the Reference section . We don't have = many yet, but the list is growing! Remember, if you'd like to see your favo= rite character featured as the Character of the Month, we're always open to= suggestions. Email us at moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org . TOS Translations In recognition of = the fact that SWG is very much an international community, we are making an= effort to translate our Terms of Service (TOS) into as many languages as p= ossible. It is our hope that this will help our members and visitors for wh= om English is not their native language feel more comfortable on our site. = We still need translators, so if you'd like to help us with this project, = please email us at moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org . For a up-to-date list of languages for whi= ch we already have volunteers, please check out our volunteer page . Our TOS are now availabl= e in Spanish . M= any thanks to Angelica for her help with the translation! Banner Contest Di= gital artists, we need your help! As SWG continues to grow, we have receive= d requests for banners that members and other groups can use to link to us = on their own sites and pages. Those of you with a knack for digital art and= manips are invited to contribute banners. We would like to offer a variety= to choose from, so we will try to use them all. In the event that we recei= ve so many that we cannot feasibly post them all, we will present them to t= he group for a vote. There are a few things to keep in mind when designing= your banners: * Please save the images as JPG files unless they invol= ve animation. Animated images may be saved as GIF files. * Banners shou= ld be no larger than 400 pixels wide by 150 pixels high. * Banners shou= ld include the name "Silmarillion Writers' Guild" or "SWG" somewhere on the= m. * Images should be suitable for all audiences. Please, no nudity or = blood and gore. * Very important: Please use only your own artwork or g= et permission from the artist whose work you're using. Artists should grant= permission for you to use the image as well as allow you to crop/modify it= for the banner. They should understand that the banner is being used by SW= G and will be publicly available for other Internet users to put on their p= ages. Unfortunately, it is not feasible for us to give credit to the artist= s' whose work is being used in the banners. A small copyright notice in an = inconspicuous place on the banner is acceptable, but we reserve the right t= o determine what is acceptable for these purposes. The copyright notice sho= uld not dominate or detract from the banner. Please, no watermarks or large= notices; we will not be able to display these banners. * SWG moderator= s reserve the right to use our discretion in choosing which banners to disp= lay. Please send your banners to moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org . We will reply within a few = days to let you know that we've received your submission. If we do not repl= y, please query; the email may have been swallowed in a spam filter somewhe= re. The due date for banner submissions is Monday, 1 October 2007. Around = the World and Web F=EBanorian Feast Our German members--or anyone wanting a= n excuse to travel--will be interested to know that a F=EBanorian Feast is = being held at Trutzburg at Altona on 22 September 2007, and there are still= tickets left! Visit the Feanorisches Feuerfest for more details. Photographs of past events are available in M= arja Kettner's Seven in '07 gallery . Around the World and Web is provided for o= ur members to inform them of events in the larger Tolkien community. SWG is= not affiliated with and does not endorse the groups that we feature in Aro= und the World and Web, and we are not responsible for content on sites outs= ide of our own. Please use discretion and caution when visiting unfamiliar = sites on the Internet. Would you like to see your group or event featured = on Around the World and Web? See our Promotions Page for more details or email us at moderat= or@silmarillionwritersguild.org . View Newsletter Archive --9-6755040435-5929488615=:1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Read it on the website here:
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/new= s/newsletter.php


September's Challenges

Forbidde= n Lore

She knows that the information she seeks is secret, forb= idden. Great consequences may arise from this knowledge. Yet she opens the = book, turns the page, and begins to read ...

This challenge as= ks you to consider knowledge that is forbidden or taboo. What sorts of info= rmation might have been hidden over the course of the history of Arda? Why = might a character wish to discover this knowledge? And perhaps most importa= ntly, what are the consequences when he does? There are a multitude of poss= ibilities, but here are just a few to get you started.

What will forbidden lore teach you?

Quote of= the Month

  • Knowled= ge about a certain craft is considered secret. Maybe it is the making of lembas by the Yavannildi or the secret behind the Silmarils or the R= ings of Power. Your characters seeks, and finds, this information. What wil= l she do with it?
  • Or maybe it is a dark secret in the histories b= eing hidden. A Noldorin child in Middle-earth first learns of the Kinslayin= g ... or a Noldorin child left behind in Aman first hears about his exiled = kin. A descendant of Uldor learns of his relationship to the infamous trait= or. An Avarin child discovers stories about the light of Aman, forsaken by = his ancestors.
  • What about culture and tradition? Essays such as "= Laws and Customs among the Eldar" are fan favorites, but do they tell the w= hole story? What might have been hidden from the loremasters collecting thi= s information? What are the real customs among different clans of = Elves, Men, Dwarves, and Ainur? What notable exceptions to cultural mores m= ay have been hidden throughout history to preserve the reputations of peopl= es and families?
  • Or keep it simple! A child is due to receive a s= pecial gift and learns where it is hidden. Does she look? What does she fin= d? Or a young adult discovers the privileges and pursuits allowed only to a= dults.
Few of the Eldar ever learned to speak Valarin,= even haltingly; among the people as a whole only a small number of words o= r names became widely known. F=EBanor indeed, before the growth of his disc= ontent, is said to have learned more of this tongue than any others before = his time, and his knowledge must at any rate have far surpassed the little = that is now recorded; but what he knew he kept to himself, and he refused t= o transmit it even to the Lambengolmor because of his quarrel with the Vala= r.
Quendi and Eldar, The History of Middle-earth, Volume 11

Character of the Month: Elrond

Elrond Half-Elven o= f all of Tolkien's elves might be the one most widely known to his readers,= whether they prefer the epic tales of The Silmarillion or the mor= e novelistic approach of The Lord of the Rings. He is additionally= one of few characters who plays a significant role in both of those books = and in The Hobbit as well. The major events in the life of Elrond = tie together the main threads of Tolkien's great history from the First Age= through the Fourth Age. Elrond is a major symbol of the meshed and undivid= able fate of Elves and Men in Middle-earth throughout those four Ages. Elro= nd played a principal role not only in the long fight against Sauron in the= Third Age and finally the destruction of the One Ring as recounted in = The Lord of the Rings, but his personal history points directly back t= o the earliest events of the First Age as described in The Silmarillion= .

Elrond and his brother Elros were the only children of Elwin= g (daughter of Dior, the son of Beren and L=FAthien ) and E=E4rendil (son o= f Idril of the Noldor, daughter of Turgon, and Tuor of the Edain). Thus, un= ique in Tolkien's legendarium, Elrond's ancestry includes Noldor, Sindar, V= anyar, and Maiar blood. He is as well a descendent of all three Houses of t= he Edain. Through his brother Elros, Elrond recognized a bond of kinship wi= th the N=FAmen=F3rean heirs to the kingship of Gondor and Arnor. Of special= interest to the confirmed aficionado of The Silmarillion is his u= nusual relationship with the sons of F=EBanor. The father of Elrond and Elr= os, E=E4rendil the Mariner, was absent on one of his many sea voyages when = the surviving sons of F=EBanor decided to attack the community of exiles of= Doriath and Gondolin at the havens of Sirion in an attempt to acquire the = Silmaril that Beren and L=FAthien had wrested from Morgoth. It had been sna= tched from their grasp when Elwing had fled with it after the death of Dior= . Rather than relinquish the stone, Elwing had thrown herself from a cliff = into the sea still holding onto it, leaving her sons Elrond and Elros defen= seless behind her. In the words of The Silmarillion, "Maglor took= pity upon Elros and Elrond, and he cherished them, and love grew after bet= ween them." Maglor, most likely in the company of Maedhros, fostered the tw= o boys for an extended period of time.

Meanwhile, Elrond's mother E= lwing did not die but had been rescued from the sea by Ulmo, and taking the= form of a bird with the Silmaril on her breast, sought and found the vesse= l of her husband E=E4rendil. Reunited, the couple sailed to Valinor, with E= =E4rendil bearing the Silmaril upon his forehead to light their way. Succes= sful in reaching the shores of Eldamar, E=E4rendil was intent upon approach= ing the Valar and begging for their mercy and their aid to the Elves and Me= n of Middle-earth who, at the cost of incalculable sacrifice and despite gr= eat heroism, were slowly losing the battle to protect Middle-earth from the= ravages of Morgoth. The Valar were moved by E=E4rendil's efforts and ruled= that E=E4rendil and Elwing could chose between the mortal and Elven kindre= ds. E=E4rendil's ship was transformed so that each night he sailed the skie= s bearing the Silmaril, becoming the brightest star. The Valar extended the= right to choose between the life of Men and that of the Elves not only to = E=E4rendil and Elwing, but also to their offspring.

In response to = the pleas of E=E4rendil, the Valar did decide to finally extend their assis= tance to the exiled Noldor and the Second Born by organizing an expedition = to Middle-earth to defeat Morgoth in the War of Wrath. At the end of the Wa= r of Wrath, Elros and Elrond, who by then had been returned to their kindre= d, were asked by the Valar to make their choice. Elrond chose to remain wit= h the Eldar and his brother chose the Edain. Elros left the shores of Middl= e-earth to become the first king of N=FAmenor. Elendil was one of his desce= ndants.

Elrond pledged himself to Ereinion Gil-galad, the last High= King of the Noldor, then ruling from Lindon, and went on to participate in= the significant battles of the Second Age. It was Elrond who led the troop= s of Gil-galad against Sauron in Eregion where, vastly outnumbered, the elv= es were defeated, yet at significant cost to their enemy as well. Elrond al= so served as Gil-galad's herald and second in command of the elven forces i= n the Battle of Dagorlad in the Last Alliance of Elves and Men. Everyone wh= o has read The Lord of the Rings or seen the recent films is famil= iar with the story of how Elrond unsuccessfully pled with Elendil's eldest = son Isildur to destroy the One Ring after he had taken it from Sauron in th= at battle. Before Gil-galad was killed at Dagorlad, he had given Vilya, the= most powerful of the three rings of the Elves, also called the Ring of Air= , to Elrond for safekeeping.

After the Last Alliance, Elrond wed Ce= lebrian, daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn, and the tales of their childre= n, Elladan, Elrohir, and Arwen, feature prominently in the events of Th= e Lord of the Rings. The story of Arwen and Aragorn, of course, harks = back to the choice given by the Valar first to E=E4rendil and Elwing, then = to Elrond and Elros, and passing through Elrond to his children. Much of th= e poignancy of Arwen's decision to renounce Elven immortality and cast her = lot with Aragorn is based upon Elrond's loss of his brother Elros an Age be= fore.

Throughout the Third Age, it was Elrond's haven in Rivendell = that served as an oasis in darkening times. Elrond not only helped to prese= rve the line of N=FAmen=F3rean kings in Middle-earth but additionally broug= ht together in discussion, including in the White Council, those who sought= to defend Middle-earth against Sauron. Elrond became known in those years = as a great healer and loremaster. For most of the Third Age, Elrond stood a= t the center of the struggle of the free peoples of Middle-earth through hi= s commitment and well-cultivated connections to Elves, Men, Dwarves, and Ho= bbits. One of his principal supporters in that endeavor was the Istar Ganda= lf. In modern terms, Elrond was the facilitator, organizer, and coordinator= of information whose efforts largely enabled the Ring Quest to set out and= in doing so significantly contributed to its success. After the destructio= n of the One Ring, Elrond sailed with Gandalf, Galadriel, and the remainder= of the Noldor left in Middle-earth. The fate of his sons Elladan and Elroh= ir is not covered in Tolkien's stories. But the departure of Elrond harkene= d the end of the days of the Elves in Middle-earth and the beginning of the= Age of Men.

Character profile by Oshun.

View past character profiles.
Read archived stories about Elrond.


Want more ch= allenges? Check out our complete challenge listing for more than two= years' worth of challenges to inspire your writing!

Have an ide= a for a challenge? Some of our most popular challenges have been create= d by you, the members of SWG! If you have a plotbunny gnawing at your ankle= , a favorite quote, or a favorite character that you think might inspire ot= hers as well, please send an email to moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org and we'll t= ry to include your challenge in our next newsletter!

September's N= ews

New to the Reference Section

We've begun archiving ou= r monthly character profiles in order to make them more accessible for read= ing and research. The complete listing of biographies may be found on the <= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/characterofthem= onth.php">Character Biographies page in the Reference section. We don't= have many yet, but the list is growing! Remember, if you'd like to see you= r favorite character featured as the Character of the Month, we're always o= pen to suggestions. Email us at moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org.

TOS Tra= nslations

In recognition of the fact that SWG is very much an inter= national community, we are making an effort to translate our Terms of Servi= ce (TOS) into as many languages as possible. It is our hope that this will = help our members and visitors for whom English is not their native language= feel more comfortable on our site.

We still need translators, so i= f you'd like to help us with this project, please email us at moderator@silmarillionwritersg= uild.org. For a up-to-date list of languages for which we already have = volunteers, please check out our volunteer page.

Our TOS are now availab= le in = Spanish. Many thanks to Angelica for her help with the translation!

=

Banner Contest

Digital artists, we need your help! As SWG con= tinues to grow, we have received requests for banners that members and othe= r groups can use to link to us on their own sites and pages. Those of you w= ith a knack for digital art and manips are invited to contribute banners. W= e would like to offer a variety to choose from, so we will try to use them = all. In the event that we receive so many that we cannot feasibly post them= all, we will present them to the group for a vote.

There are a few= things to keep in mind when designing your banners:

  • Please= save the images as JPG files unless they involve animation. Animated image= s may be saved as GIF files.
  • Banners should be no larger than 40= 0 pixels wide by 150 pixels high.
  • Banners should include the nam= e "Silmarillion Writers' Guild" or "SWG" somewhere on them.
  • Imag= es should be suitable for all audiences. Please, no nudity or blood and gor= e.
  • Very important: Please use only your own art= work or get permission from the artist whose work you're using. Artists sho= uld grant permission for you to use the image as well as allow you to crop/= modify it for the banner. They should understand that the banner is being u= sed by SWG and will be publicly available for other Internet users to put o= n their pages. Unfortunately, it is not feasible for us to give credit to t= he artists' whose work is being used in the banners. A small copyright noti= ce in an inconspicuous place on the banner is acceptable, but we reserve th= e right to determine what is acceptable for these purposes. The copyright n= otice should not dominate or detract from the banner. Please, no watermarks= or large notices; we will not be able to display these banners.
    • SWG moderators reserve the right to use our discretion in choosing which b= anners to display.

Please send your banners to moderator@silmarillionwritersg= uild.org. We will reply within a few days to let you know that we've re= ceived your submission. If we do not reply, please query; the email may hav= e been swallowed in a spam filter somewhere.

The due date for banne= r submissions is Monday, 1 October 2007.

Around t= he World and Web

F=EBanorian Feast

Our German members--or = anyone wanting an excuse to travel--will be interested to know that a F=EBa= norian Feast is being held at Trutzburg at Altona on 22 September 2007, and= there are still tickets left! Visit the Feanorisches Feuerfest for more details.

Photograp= hs of past events are available in Marja Kettner's Seven in '07 gallery.



Around the World and Web is provided for our memb= ers to inform them of events in the larger Tolkien community. SWG is not af= filiated with and does not endorse the groups that we feature in Around the= World and Web, and we are not responsible for content on sites outside of = our own. Please use discretion and caution when visiting unfamiliar sites o= n the Internet.

Would you like to see your group or event f= eatured on Around the World and Web? See our Promotions Page for more = details or email us at moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org.


= View Newsletter Archive

--9-6755040435-5929488615=:1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1224 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89025 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2007 16:26:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2007 16:26:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.115) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2007 16:26:34 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2007 16:26:32 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2007 16:26:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2007 16:26:32 -0000 X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19376 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2007 16:14:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2007 16:14:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2007 16:14:44 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C1A83E8083 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:14:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:14:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:14:39 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1971071397.20070911181439@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: Elrond & Elros (and canon) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=nmjZ8XbEwHKvwEnsHnnsl-CtYg-Q-bnY3jpqJw1ROcn6yw-0l3M X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 11 Sep 2007 16:26:32 -0000 Ai Everyone, to clarify things I had a chance to ask Kasiopea about the imago which brought this discussion - yes, they were twins. She just drew them the way she did after a fan fic where they weren't twins and/or the same height/age. But in canon they are twins :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1225 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22485 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2007 17:54:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Sep 2007 17:54:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.179) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2007 17:54:40 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j37so1283231pyc for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.41.12 with SMTP id t12mr1173774pyj.1189706043921; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.88.8 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:54:03 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_18563_26355685.1189706043904" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Banner-Design Help Needed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=s0-sb5iiW-2A1my1DfFlzPV6hUdCZD7rLIxdHX1nTrViiGXi6TVo X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_18563_26355685.1189706043904-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1226 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45706 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2007 18:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2007 18:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.182) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2007 18:52:22 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a25so2446785pyi for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.14.18 with SMTP id r18mr3897215pyi.1189882304443; Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.88.8 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 14:51:44 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7251_13850681.1189882304435" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Happy 30 Years, Silmarillion! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=VPYE7NxXAfq9SgQuPGTXrNKCfy1P5UXUqro3EjSVfBbBtTSe0tK4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_7251_13850681.1189882304435-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1227 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23564 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2007 03:37:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2007 03:37:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.243) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2007 03:37:08 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n27.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2007 03:36:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2007 03:36:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2007 03:36:29 -0000 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 03:36:27 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Happy 30 Years, Silmarillion! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=jVW9c67hdMAzRgoKKDfOefaFYHAnXAr8rYe9--SQ4shJuQ62bNJieA X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser What a great idea! And happy birthday to you, too! :) (I worked on one o= f my WIPs today, but it won't be ready by the 1st, sorry.) --- In Silmar= illionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wro= te: > > Today is the thirty-year anniversary of the publication of The Sil= marillion! > > Of course, we had to do something to honor thirty years of = our favorite > book. SWG is hosting a writing contest for Silmarillion sto= ries, drabbles, > poems, and essays. The entry with the highest word count= of reviews will win > a shiny banner, as will the reviewer who writes the= most words of comments > on contest entries. > > Full details can be fou= nd here: > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/anniversarycontest.php >= > I hope that some of our authors out there will try to come up with som= ething > new for the contest. What scene or character first made you fall = in love > with The Silmarillion? Who or what inspires you today? (Maybe wr= ite an > encounter between the two of them?) Or maybe there's a challenge = or a > project that you've been meaning to do (I know all about that!), bu= t haven't > found the motivation yet? > > The deadline for entering storie= s is 1 October and for writing reviews is 15 > October. > > Happy writing= ! > Dawn F. > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1228 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69010 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2007 23:12:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2007 23:12:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.116) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2007 23:12:30 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2007 23:10:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2007 23:10:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2007 23:10:11 -0000 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:10:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Happy 30 Years, Silmarillion! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=gDwqLJCPquRb-7dX2rrfBV_VumNifp3vzCLLsYNuXIe4mxPUAB_xklM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Today is the thirty-year anniversary of the publication= of The > Silmarillion! Yay! Cake! > Of course, we had to do something t= o honor thirty years of our > favorite book. SWG is hosting a writing cont= est for Silmarillion > stories, drabbles, poems, and essays. The entry wit= h the highest > word count of reviews will win a shiny banner, as will the= reviewer > who writes the most words of comments on contest entries. > >= Full details can be found here: > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/= anniversarycontest.php I read it... I have a question that might be releva= nt and I couldn't find it: is there a limit on word count of which you writ= e, as in a story/drabble/ficlet? I was just wondering about that. Is the = 1st of October a fixed date... its less than two weeks and I am not sure if= I can make it (this also includes getting it back from my beta)? Thanks! = Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1229 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36425 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2007 23:38:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2007 23:38:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2007 23:38:38 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u52so3873093pyb for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:38:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=tbU6l9mWKVlxt43yS9ipSMyohn+zuGudB5diNj0URjo=; b=hHudF/WdzQXUdTsjPGdKgXjQJin/4KlSSAxsfXORTuAJMCdf+Dgz4rQzlG028nhD3Oi4RzSXIVpUMsD5avW8IeaXwhDlQblVlv2cR3g7n/XyJcj5yz6iyX7WbNAwh/0dmaRDBp9aNlmPq27yhG1g2dOAEUF+9u56SBmUcXcOPQw= Received: by 10.35.121.9 with SMTP id y9mr6953357pym.1190072280484; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.91.8 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:38:00 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7351_12377497.1190072280465" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Happy 30 Years, Silmarillion! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=jH4adleQ-ynC4TSh9y50KJMVJiURi8cMbnIVK7UZAlIf97UfrETN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_7351_12377497.1190072280465-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1230 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50616 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2007 23:46:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2007 23:46:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.181) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2007 23:46:31 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a29so3858921pyi for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.71.1 with SMTP id y1mr6950867pyk.1190072188065; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.91.8 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:36:27 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7340_1826537.1190072187346" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Happy 30 Years, Silmarillion! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hFfjerz5NIg39Usxamucput8OO0WAZiZ7KI_S0FcsVJ5ONrwy9h6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_7340_1826537.1190072187346-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1231 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39086 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2007 01:30:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2007 01:30:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.179) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2007 01:30:55 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so4512492pyb for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:30:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=HJB4XcQtQ9BWzZdo+8jjRVQxfaigY6Ep8+/5gxLFQm4=; b=DVaInTlKEJnWh1dZXpkhvpxfYychIfskEh0OLkGZPEAAvsuSx27xkn3HH8RPgoHwzjx4YsMhMnxZ6anFx7skvAfVVhvf7qXnFFYplz8eF56m0K8mXxB/M8uMZfzegsXwo8QPqAyhm6brgNScgM6Iv4vuTcRRxGYJ740doGomIQg= Received: by 10.35.96.6 with SMTP id y6mr1771895pyl.1190856655156; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:30:55 -0400 To: "Henneth Annun" , SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_14092_20707368.1190856655141" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: HoMe1--"The Chaining of Melko"--summary X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=iciE7oEnUS9gu0-SzcdwW5RVKA8xQhRm7RYUOZrdJkxMEbRe-PJe X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_14092_20707368.1190856655141-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1232 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20934 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2007 03:30:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2007 03:30:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2007 03:30:22 -0000 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so4075194wah for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.123.1 with SMTP id v1mr1071197wac.1191036621671; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.143.158.17 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0709282030v1a9608f0h584c3445fd41b2cf@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:30:21 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1191033274.283.72022.w114@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4278_13103629.1191036621675" References: <1191033274.283.72022.w114@yahoogroups.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 807732eeb5216895 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: File - Welcome to SWG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=HDVdnAZMKKPXd0BvpGpk3JA6i1m3cy49oPAG7-puqmDArg X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_4278_13103629.1191036621675-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1233 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87228 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2007 14:18:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2007 14:18:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.177) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2007 14:18:21 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so5754544pye for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 07:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.131.13 with SMTP id i13mr5068735pyn.1191075500211; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 07:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 07:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:18:20 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0709282030v1a9608f0h584c3445fd41b2cf@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6420_18339124.1191075500203" References: <1191033274.283.72022.w114@yahoogroups.com> <3c715e1e0709282030v1a9608f0h584c3445fd41b2cf@mail.gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: File - Welcome to SWG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=DzmkiJj9303BEUe7YwKxcPjJAWk_1KIS2nTCz0iYv3TXGNcMlLjJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_6420_18339124.1191075500203-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1234 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsodybard@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57167 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2007 23:06:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2007 23:06:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.116) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2007 23:06:16 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2007 23:06:16 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2007 23:06:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2007 23:06:16 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 23:06:15 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: 2007 MEFA Reviews Now Available X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=317515025; y=rlD41YJYJQUazSgu9Adyt9gW8SUznnt4I5fjUq30B5snIs_wWhP1A3o X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, I have a new MEFA announcement for you all! ------ The first of = the reviews submitted for the 2007 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards are now a= vailable. As you may know, the MEFAs are a fanfiction competition where sto= ries earn points based on the length of reviews submitted for them. We then= display these reviews so at our website as a service to authors and potent= ial readers. Over 900 reviews are currently displayed at our website, and m= ore will be added until the competition closes on December 30. To find th= e reviews, go to: www.mefawards.net/MEFA2007 and log in (or if you are not = a member, click the "Log in as Guest" link). Then click the "Read Reviews" = link. This will show you all of the reviews currently visible. It's not t= oo late to begin voting. Nominated authors can vote using the same log-in i= nformation they were given when their stories were nominated. Anyone else c= an obtain a password by joining the MEFAwards Yahoo group. If you have forg= otten your password or need help joining (or if you have questions about th= e awards), please email mefasupport(at)gmail(dot)com. You can vote for any = story in this year's awards through December 30. Thanks for your interest= in the MEFAs. Good luck to all the authors, and enjoy the reviews. Marta= (MEFA Admin) --- Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1236 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65173 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2007 19:48:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2007 19:48:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.183) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2007 19:48:01 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a25so1362798pyi for ; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.84.9 with SMTP id m9mr14741483pyl.1191613681367; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.129.15 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 12:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 15:48:01 -0400 To: SWG , "Henneth Annun" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_43182_12732625.1191613681346" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Silmarillion Writing Contest--All Entries Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=A2yU68xtRoH_DYsTDL7aCaXHV-vjMuwvCkHEzz6J3VdrBwvdi3dD X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_43182_12732625.1191613681346-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1237 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95227 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2007 14:41:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Oct 2007 14:41:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.246) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Oct 2007 14:41:14 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n28.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Oct 2007 14:41:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Oct 2007 14:41:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Oct 2007 14:41:14 -0000 Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:41:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5-7314051692-8081740669=:1" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Recommended link: The Astronomy of Middle-earth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=O_pAv_LSWgHpPrjL0aSXXAZGqclNU19wD4HDjBsekfSCRSeqVjo9ds3A X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --5-7314051692-8081740669=:1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you check out the October challenge, Wish Upon a Star , you'll find a link contain= ed therein: The Astronomy of Middle-earth. On that site, Kristine Larsen, Professor of Physi= cs and Astronomy at Central Connecticut State University, has collected lin= ks to a number of her articles that pertain to astronomy as well as to othe= r scientific facets of Middle-earth and JRRT's writing as a whole. I read = a few of these over coffee this morning and found her theses and writing to= be engaging. The articles are well worth a look even if you don't intend = to write a ficlet or such for the challenge. I was particularly entertaine= d by A Little Earth of His Own: Tolkien's Lunar Creation Myths . Larsen addresses JRRT's cosmogony an= d his various hypotheses for the Moon's origins, ranging from scientificall= y untenable canon in The Silmarillion to fascinating - and more scientifica= lly consistent - tales in "Myths Transformed" of Morgoth's Ring. Larsen tie= s in what was known about the formation of the moon from before JRRT's time= to the present, even referring to a poem by Erasmus Darwin, Charles Darwin= 's grandfather! Here's an excerpt which describes E. Darwin's wild theory = of the formation of the moon in an odd form of scientific-poetry: Gnomes!= how you shriek'd! When through the troubled air Roar'd the fierce din of = elemental war; When rose the continents, and sunk the main, And Earth's h= uge sphere exploding burst in twain, =96 Gnomes! how you gazed! when from = her wounded side Where now the South-Sea heaves its waste of tide, Rose o= n swift wheels the Moon's refulgent car, Circling the solar orb; a sister-= star. As noted in Larsen's article, the whole flat-earth concept as well a= s the origins of the Sun and Moon from the fruits of Laurelin and Telperion= really bothered JRRT as evidenced by his later writings, and he admirably = (IMO) tried to correct this. My impression was that these later writings r= attled Christopher Tolkien a bit. Another noteworthy (well, to me at any r= ate) article was Scientific Motifs in Middle-earth: "Lost in Translation?" = In this, Larsen dis= cusses scientific elements in Tolkien's literature versus Jackson/Walsh/Boy= ens cinematic fan fic. She addresses a lot of points regarding the themes = of science that I have also given thought to in my dotage. This in partic= ular caught my attention: "One should not make the mistake of connecting T= olkien's suspicion of technology to a general mistrust of science. [bolded = emphasis, Doc Bushwell/pandemonium_213] On the contrary, Tom Bombadil was a= lso "a particular embodying of pure (real) science: the spirit that desires= knowledge of other things, their history and nature, because they are `oth= er'=85 entirely unconcerned with `doing' anything with the knowledge: Zoolo= gy and Botany not Cattle-breeding or Agriculture" (Carpenter 192). As Goldb= erry, Bombadil's wife, explained to Frodo in the text, "The trees and the g= rasses and all things growing or living in the land belong each to themselv= es=85" (LOTR 122)." My full response to the quoted paragraph above would m= ost likely take the form of a shrill essay, but I'll try - unsuccessfully n= o doubt - to be succinct. Just as Larsen notes, I realize that JRRTdid not= have a "general mistrust" of science. Last spring, a fewmisinterpreted my = screed to mean just that - and yes, the title ismisleading; I couldn't help= being glib. I still strongly maintain he lookedaskance at the majority of = scientists and engineers (technologists). I recognize that JRRT was deepl= y interested in science, especially botany and astronomy, and indeed his kn= owledge of science according to his era adds incredible richness to his sec= ondary world and allows us to become immersed fully in "elvish drama." He = admired pure science - or as we practitioners of the art call it - "blue sk= ies research." Science seems to be OK w/ JRRT as long as it is knowledge f= or knowledge's sake and that one shouldn't do anything with it, let alone b= e possessive of it. Huh? Clearly, that is not the reality - here or in Mi= ddle-earth - of how science is applied. Another article,The Historical Dis= covery of a New Element, Orodruinium by P. Legolas, Mirkwood Academy of Science (su= bmitted on Professor Greenleaf's behalf to the American Physical Society by= K. Larsen) is one hootworthy read. That said, "Saunders" offered this ch= aracteristically biting response to Professor Greenleaf's publication: How= in the Udun did this piece of crap get past peer-review? The Ring was a co= mplex alloy of gold, antimony, alkoxysilanes, arsenic, gallium,silicates, a= nd proprietary organics. I did not craft my precious ring from a single ex= otic element. Someone is pulling this 'orodruinium' out of his Sindarin-Sil= van butt. P. Legolas is hopeless, just hopeless. He probably slept with one= or more of the reviewers. - D.L. Sauron, Bauglir Professor of Nanotechnol= ogy, MIT* *Mordor Institute of Technology. Well, this turned into a verbo= se pandemoniacal commentary, but my point is - and I do have one - check ou= t the link to Kristine Larsen's site. Lots of fascinating stuff there and = some pertinent to previous discussions among the SWG crowd. --5-7314051692-8081740669=:1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you check out the October challenge, Wish Upon a Star , you'll find a lin= k contained therein: The Astronomy of Middle= -earth.

On that site, Kristine Larsen, Professor of Physics and = Astronomy at Central Connecticut State University, has collected links to a= number of her articles that pertain to astronomy as well as to other scien= tific facets of Middle-earth and JRRT's writing as a whole.  I read a = few of these over coffee this morning and found her theses and writing to b= e engaging.  The articles are well worth a look even if you don't inte= nd to write a ficlet or such for the challenge.

I was particularly e= ntertained by A L= ittle Earth of His Own: Tolkien's Lunar Creation Myths.  Larsen ad= dresses JRRT's cosmogony and his various hypotheses for the Moon's origins,= ranging from scientifically untenable canon in The Silmarillion to = fascinating - and more scientifically consistent - tales in "Myths Transfor= med" of Morgoth's Ring. Larsen ties in what was known about the form= ation of the moon from before JRRT's time to the present, even referring to= a poem by Erasmus Darwin, Charles Darwin's grandfather!  Here's an ex= cerpt which describes E. Darwin's wild theory of the formation of the moon = in an odd form of scientific-poetry:

<= font face=3D"arial" size=3D"2">Gnomes! how you shriek'd! When through the t= roubled air

Roar'd the fierce din of elemental war;

= When rose the continents, and sunk the main= ,

And Eart= h's huge sphere exploding burst in twain, =96

Gnomes! how you gazed! when from her wo= unded side

Where now the South-Sea heaves its waste of tide,

Rose on swift wheels the Moon's re= fulgent car,

Circling the solar orb; a sister-star.

= As noted in Larsen's article, the whole fla= t-earth concept as well as the origins of the Sun and Moon from the fruits = of Laurelin and Telperion really bothered JRRT as evidenced by his later wr= itings, and he admirably (IMO) tried to correct this.  My impression w= as that these later writings rattled Christopher Tolkien a bit.
<= /p>Another noteworthy (well, to me at any r= ate) article was Scientific Motifs in Middle-earth: "Lost in Translation?"  I= n this, Larsen discusses scientific elements in Tolkien's literature versus= Jackson/Walsh/Boyens cinematic fan fic.  She addresses a lot of point= s regarding the themes of science that I have also given thought to in my d= otage.   This in particular caught my attention:

"One should not make the mistake of connec= ting Tolkien's suspicion of technology to a general mistrust of science. [bolded emphasis, Doc Bushwell/pandemonium_213] On the contrary, T= om Bombadil was also "a particular embodying of pure (real) science: the sp= irit that desires knowledge of other things, their history and nature, beca= use they are `other'=85 entirely unconcerned with `doing' anything with the= knowledge: Zoology and Botany not Cattle-breeding or Agriculture" (Carpent= er 192). As Goldberry, Bombadil's wife, explained to Frodo in the text, "Th= e trees and the grasses and all things growing or living in the land belong= each to themselves=85" (LOTR 122)."

My full response to the = quoted paragraph above would most likely take the form of a shrill essay, b= ut I'll try - unsuccessfully no doubt - to be succinct.  Just as Larsen notes, I realize that JRRTdid not = have a "general mistrust" of science. Last spring, a fewmisinterpreted my s= creed to mean just that - and yes, the title ismisleading; I couldn't help = being glib. I still strongly maintain he lookedaskance at the majority of s= cientists and engineers (technologists).   I recognize that JRRT was deeply interested in science, = especially botany and astronomy, and indeed his knowledge of science accord= ing to his era adds incredible richness to his secondary world and allows u= s to become immersed fully in "elvish drama."  He admired pure science= - or as we practitioners of the art call it - "blue skies research." = Science seems to be OK w/ JRRT as long as it is knowledge for knowledge's = sake and that one shouldn't do anything with it, let alone be posses= sive of it.  Huh?  Clearly, that is not the reality - here or in = Middle-earth - of how science is applied. 

Another article,T= he Historical Discovery of a New Element, Orodruinium by P. Legolas, Mi= rkwood Academy of Science (submitted on Professor Greenleaf's behalf to the= American Physical Society by K. Larsen) is one hootworthy read.  = ; That said, "Saunders" offered this characteristically biting response to = Professor Greenleaf's publication:

How in the Udun did this piece= of crap get past peer-review? The Ring was a complex alloy of gold, antimo= ny, alkoxysilanes, arsenic, gallium,silicates, and proprietary organics.&nb= sp; I did not craft my precious ring from a single exotic ele= ment. Someone is pulling this 'orodruinium' out of his Sindarin-Silvan butt= . P. Legolas is hopeless, just hopeless. He probably slept with one or more= of the reviewers.

- D.L. Sauron,= Bauglir Professor of Nanotechnology, MIT*

*Mordor Institute of Tech= nology.

Well, this turned into a ver= bose pandemoniacal commentary, but my point is - and I do have one - check = out the link to Kristine Larsen's site.  Lots of fascinating stuff the= re and some pertinent to previous discussions among the SWG crowd.

<= em>
--5-7314051692-8081740669=:1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1238 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56211 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2007 17:45:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2007 17:45:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0102.google.com) (64.233.170.190) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2007 17:45:41 -0000 Received: by rn-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id a46so187080rne for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.221.19 with SMTP id t19mr2224184wfg.1192556739770; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.26.15 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:45:39 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9713_21748660.1192556739662" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Recommended link: The Astronomy of Middle-earth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=2n7o3-JxTS9DWXm1_KYuF5S79yjwCJonKxElJaS2aeoxnWhzNUzc X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_9713_21748660.1192556739662-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1239 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75025 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2007 00:51:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Oct 2007 00:51:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.176) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Oct 2007 00:51:17 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id d32so7662720pye for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.92.18 with SMTP id u18mr9807515pyl.1192582276654; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.26.15 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:51:16 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11356_33378070.1192582276641" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Anniversary Contest Results Are In! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mnexrj_7PA4wgRXLjxyorRt6NjxjefjxZSQl4NBB18qUOhQZVaM2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11356_33378070.1192582276641-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1240 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 295 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2007 00:53:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Oct 2007 00:53:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Oct 2007 00:53:43 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d08.1e90b094 (14467) for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:53:25 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1192582405" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Anniversary Contest Results Are In! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=xOHM0cD9HVDhaY1AUlXxylMVntvc3I6EZV6nRP2e7-bch0_WRNws X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1192582405 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great job on getting it done so fast. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------------------------1192582405 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =

Great job on gett= ing it done so fast.



Se= e what's new at = AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
-------------------------------1192582405-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1241 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65030 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2007 01:07:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Oct 2007 01:07:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.180) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Oct 2007 01:07:24 -0000 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so4022100pyb for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.14.18 with SMTP id r18mr9804903pyi.1192583243608; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.26.15 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:07:23 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11408_31635312.1192583243599" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Anniversary Contest Results Are In! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Vd2LvzCaAqq3gNz1V7x7McXehdDYXmEKuyr-lrbsZKNGajetwxb- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11408_31635312.1192583243599-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1242 Return-Path: X-Sender: sulriel@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82528 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2007 01:15:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Oct 2007 01:15:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.213) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Oct 2007 01:15:57 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2007 01:15:54 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2007 01:15:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2007 01:15:54 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:15:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "sulriel" Subject: Re: Anniversary Contest Results Are In! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=wp1FeLtyeQihdfRxjREoOePJTnhNeOuK7v0dPky5Ga8d9w X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Hi, everyone! > Yesterday was the final day for review= s/votes for the Silmarillion > Anniversary Writing Contest, so I'm pleased = to announce the winners today! Awesome! Thanks for letting me play. = I've really enjoyed reading here and hope to load some of my other works = over here once RL settles down a little. Sulriel From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1243 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91116 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2007 15:04:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2007 15:04:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.137) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2007 15:04:50 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2007 15:04:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2007 15:04:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2007 15:04:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:04:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="3-1248999709-3889275254=:1" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: Recommended link: The Astronomy of Middle-earth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=kG5f3hQ6zDmK9vroYGd25QnFn8Dbycjb6QL7aS9yJN9n1SRTWBhU4c4C X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --3-1248999709-3889275254=:1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At the risk of mutual congratulatory backslapping and high-fiving, here's s= ome more pandemoniacal yammering. I figure the public might as well read w= hat we occasionally blather about via e-mail! :^D Personally, I've always = liked that he tried to bring his myths more in line with reality at the end= . Not because I'm incapable of sheer fantasy and escapism--I think that any= one who knows me as an author outside of fanfic can attest that I can ;) --= but because, for me, part of the magic of JRRT's works are that he envision= ed them as forgotten history of *our own world.* So that let's me take the = fantasy and escapism to the next level. Like believing in Elves. ;) And bei= ng able to see connections between Middle-earth and Modern-earth via geogra= phy, astronomy, psychology, et cetera only solidifies the connection betwee= n Tolkien's imaginary world and ours. For me, anyway. :) Yes, exactly. Hi= s aim was to immerse the reader (or dreamer, as I think he put it) into his= secondary world, what he termed "elvish drama." Bringing the realities of= our primary world into his secondary world certainly achieves this. Yet, = to give a nod the Elves (see Letter 154 in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien), = he wanted to have his cake and eat it in terms of bringing scientific conce= pts into his tales of a secondary world. Check out his comment in a letter= to Forrest Ackerman (#210) regarding Morton Zimmerman's proposed film trea= tment of The Lord of the Rings: "Lembas, 'waybread', is called a 'food con= centrate'. As I have shown I dislike strongly any pulling of my tale toward= the style and feature of 'contes des f=E9es', or French fairy-stories. I d= islike equally any pull toward 'scientification', of which this expression = is an example. Both modes are alien to my story. "We are not exploring the= Moon or any other more improbable region. No analysis in any laboratory wo= uld discover the chemical properties of lembas that made it superior to oth= er cakes of wheat-meal." Tolkien then writes that lembas "is a 'machine' o= r device for making credible the long marches with little provision, in a w= orld in which I have said 'miles are miles.' But that is relatively unimpor= tant. It also has a much larger significance, of which one might hesitating= ly call a 'religious' kind...I cannot find that Z has made any particular u= se of lembas even as a device..." First, I'll note that Peter Jackson's ve= rsion was better than Mort Zimmerman's (which according to the letter that = JRRT wrote, was abysmal), and at least indicated that lembas was something = special. I'll readily agree that "food concentrate" isn't exactly poetic l= anguage, and I'm as guilty - and in JRRT's and dedicated fans' eyes, likely= as abhorrent - as Zimmerman in using jargon. Yet an inquisitive mind in po= ssession of nolm=EB and kurw=EB can't help but ask *why* lembas is special,= what gives it such properties, and not necessarily be satisfied that it is= a form of magia that cannot be questioned or discovered. That kind of min= d wishes to unweave the rainbow, which seems to fall into the 'scientificat= ion' that JRRT abhorred. I am not convinced that he would have loved Larsen= 's astronomical analyses nor Henry Gee's Science of Middle-earth. In fact,= I am sure there are fans who don't care for these either, and I can respec= t that since they prefer their rainbows intact. Yet JRRT tries to turn a = "green sun" into a class G yellow star in heliocentric solar system with a= spherical Imbar when he jumps through hoops in reconciling the flat earth= dilemma. It seems that JRRT wants both scientific underpinnings (round ea= rth, a means of sustenance over long journeys) and the wave of a wizard's w= and (one can't analyze lembas). That strikes me as having that slice of ca= ke and being able to eat it, too. Lembas is a 'machine' that rationally ex= plains sustenance over a great lengths of travel but it is not testable; at= her it's spiritual properties are more important, consistent with much of J= RRT's vision. So, likewise, I love the fantasy and the escapism of the wor= ks (as well as the moral complexities of The Silmarillion), but that doesn'= t prevent me from attempting to unweave the rainbow with the understanding = that there will always be a mystery (exactly as there is in scientific disc= overy within our primary world) just around the corner. Even cold-blooded r= ationalists love that kind of mystery and try to puzzle it out, even if the= y know they may never discover the exact answer. In an unseemly moment of = SSP, I'll note that even the skeptical smithof "Risk Assessment," who offe= rs a rational explanation of lembas'properties, states that lembas still po= ssesses mystery, but that tryingto discover its nature does not diminish it= s wonder and even may add toit. Of course, my ficcery amounts to so much ra= nk editorializing versus"engaging gap filler." :^D > > Here's something = interesting from "The Shibboleth of Feanor": Here, the distinction= between the two kinds of science is pretty explicit: There is knowing thin= gs, then there is making things. Of course, Feanor and Fingolfin are just t= wo characters, but tracing their paths, I think it's easy to see which char= acter takes the moral path in JRRT's eyes. What a delicious detail and con= nection! Heh. So if I'm ever the founder of a start-up in Boston (as like= ly as a mass spectrometer among the Gwaith-i-Mirdain), I'll name it Kurw=EB= Tech. --3-1248999709-3889275254=:1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At the risk of mutual congratulatory backslapping and high-fiving, here'ssome more pandemoniacal yammering.  I figure the public might as wel= l read what we occasionally blather about via e-mail! :^D

Persona= lly, I've always liked that he tried to bring his myths more
in line wit= h reality at the end. Not because I'm incapable of sheer fantasy and escapi= sm--I think that anyone who knows me as an author outside of fanfic can att= est that I can ;) --but because, for me, part of the magic of JRRT's works = are that he envisioned them as forgotten history of *our own world.* So tha= t let's me take the fantasy and escapism to the next level. Like believing = in Elves. ;) And being able to see connections between Middle-earth and Mod= ern-earth via geography, astronomy, psychology, et cetera only solidifies t= he connection between Tolkien's imaginary world and ours. For me, anyway. := )

Yes, exactly.  His aim was to immerse the reader (or drea= mer, as I
think he put it) into his secondary world, what he termed "elv= ish
drama."  Bringing the realities of our primary world into hissecondary world certainly achieves this.  Yet, to give a nod the Elv= es
(see Letter 154 in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien), he wanted to have<= br>his cake and eat it in terms of bringing scientific concepts into histales of a secondary world.

Check out his comment in a letter to Fo= rrest Ackerman (#210) regarding
Morton Zimmerman's proposed film treatme= nt of The Lord of the Rings:

"Lembas,= 'waybread', is called a 'food concentrate'. As I have shown I
dislike s= trongly any pulling of my tale toward the style and feature
of 'contes d= es f=E9es', or French fairy-stories. I dislike equally any
pull toward '= scientification', of which this expression is an example.
Both modes are= alien to my story.

"We are not exploring the Moon or any other more= improbable region. No
analysis in any laboratory would discover the che= mical properties of
lembas that made it superior to other cakes of wheat= -meal."

Tolkien then writes that lembas "is a 'machine' or device for ma= king
credible the long marches with little provision, in a world in whic= h I
have said 'miles are miles.' But that is relatively unimportant. It<= br>also has a much larger significance, of which one might hesitatingly
= call a 'religious' kind...I cannot find that Z has made any particular
u= se of lembas even as a device..."

First, I'll note that Peter= Jackson's version was better than Mort
Zimmerman's (which according to = the letter that JRRT wrote, was
abysmal), and at least indicated that le= mbas was something special.

I'll readily agree that "food concentra= te" isn't exactly poetic
language, and I'm as guilty - and in JRRT's and= dedicated fans' eyes, likely as abhorrent - as Zimmerman in using jargon. = Yet an inquisitive mind in possession of nolm=EB and kurw=EB<= br>can't help but ask *why* lembas is special, what gives it such
proper= ties, and not necessarily be satisfied that it is a form of
magia that c= annot be questioned or discovered.  That kind of mind
wishes to unw= eave the rainbow, which seems to fall into the
'scientification' that JR= RT abhorred. I am not convinced that he would
have loved Larsen's astron= omical analyses nor Henry Gee's Science of
Middle-earth.  In= fact, I am sure there are fans who don't care for these either, and I can = respect that since they prefer their rainbows intact.  Yet JRRT  = tries to turn a "green sun"  into a class G yellow star in heliocentri= c solar system with a spherical Imbar  when he jumps through hoops in = reconciling the flat earth dilemma.  It seems that JRRT wants both sci= entific underpinnings
(round earth, a means of sustenance over long jour= neys) and the wave
of a wizard's wand (one can't analyze lembas).=  

That strikes me as having that slice of cake and being able = to eat it, too.  Lembas is a 'machine' that rationally explains susten= ance over a great lengths of travel but it is not testable; ather it's spir= itual properties are more important, consistent with much of JRRT's vision.=

So, likewise, I love the fantasy and the escapism of the works (as = well as the moral complexities of The Silmarillion), but that doesn'= t prevent me from attempting to unweave the rainbow with the understanding = that there will always be a mystery (exactly as there is in
scien= tific discovery within our primary world) just around the corner. Even cold= -blooded rationalists love that kind of mystery and try to puzzle it out, e= ven if they know they may never discover the exact answer.  In an unse= emly moment of SSP, I'll note that even the skeptical smithof  "Risk A= ssessment," who offers a rational explanation of lembas'properties, states = that lembas still possesses mystery, but that tryingto discover its nature = does not diminish its wonder and even may add toit. Of course, my ficcery a= mounts to so much rank editorializing versus"engaging gap filler." :^D
<= br>

>
> Here's something interesting from "The Shibbole= th of Feanor":



Here, the distinction betw= een the two kinds of science is pretty
explicit: There is knowing things= , then there is making things. Of
course, Feanor and Fingolfin are just = two characters, but tracing
their paths, I think it's easy to see which = character takes the moral
path in JRRT's eyes.

What a delicio= us detail and connection!  Heh.  So if I'm ever the
founder of= a start-up in Boston (as likely as a mass spectrometer
among the Gwaith= -i-Mirdain), I'll name it Kurw=EBTech.





--3-1248999709-3889275254=:1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1244 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66999 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2007 18:02:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2007 18:02:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2007 18:02:34 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bfb.24ad419c (14467) for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:02:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:02:26 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1193162546" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Recommended link: The Astronomy of Middle-... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=rDTRO1sqOha9fTFnaX4czCJ9A_Ictexu0U42iDcO6trV-B7Es_jA X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1193162546 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fascinating discussion--I go for character over plot I guess and my perference is to use the fantasy where it works for me and yet try just a little modernization (scientification?) if it seems to make the interpersonal reactions or the characters more relatable (that has to be a made-up word or at least misspelled). ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------------------------1193162546 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Fascinating discu= ssion--I go for character over plot I guess and my perference is to use th= e fantasy where it works for me and yet try just a little modernization (<= FONT color=3D#400040>scientification?) if it seems to make the inte= rpersonal reactions or the characters more relatable (that has to be = a made-up word or at least misspelled).



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-------------------------------1193162546-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1245 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28982 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2007 16:47:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2007 16:47:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.181) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2007 16:47:38 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id v27so1336939wah for ; Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.55.1 with SMTP id h1mr3186615wak.1194108458471; Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.92.15 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Nov 2007 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:47:38 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_18452_21793190.1194108458462" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: November 2007 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=SPfOfU26k-H5DTtguMOPkoXLDf2b1381xiBPcT3yn65UCIqfEz_5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_18452_21793190.1194108458462-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1246 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83113 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2007 13:18:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2007 13:18:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2007 13:18:42 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2007 13:18:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2007 13:18:42 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:18:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="2-6560030717-1091091206=:8" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: A sentient Ring - response to oshun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=xLY8HkRU_fXk8l6qKxFiojw308c0RHLQ4TX86GRtk_JMSY2X_9_LAT81 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --2-6560030717-1091091206=:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But then I started wondering, if the ring is sentient, could it power exist= independent of Sauron? Good question. Based on the following from Letter= 131 (to Milton Waldman) in The Letters of JRRT, I would say yes, it is ind= ependent in that it could be bent to another=E2=80=99s will, if that will i= s strong enough: "...He rules a growing empire from the great dark tower o= f Barad-d=C3=BBr in Mordor, near to the Mountain of Fire, wielding the One = Ring. "But to achieve this he had been obliged to let a great part of his = own inherent power (a frequent and very significant motive in myth and fair= y-story) pass into the One Ring. While he wore it, his power on earth was a= ctually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and w= as in =E2=80=98rapport=E2=80=99 with himself: he was not =E2=80=98diminishe= d=E2=80=99. Unless some other seized it and became possessed of it. If that= happened, the new possessor could (if sufficiently strong and heroic by na= ture) challenge Sauron, become master of all that he had learned or done si= nce the making of the One Ring, and so overthrow him and usurp his place. T= his was the essential weakness he had introduced into his situation in his = effort (largely unsuccessful) to enslave the Elves, and in his desire to es= tablish a control over the minds and wills of his servants." In The Silmar= illion ("Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age"), Sauron is 'diminished' = in the sense that his body is destroyed/slain, his spirit flees, etc. Ther= e have been numerous debates (1) concerning the =E2=80=9Cwill=E2=80=9D of t= he Ring. Others as nerdly - or even more so - than myself have theorized t= hat its =E2=80=9Csentience=E2=80=9D is akin to something like a dog, e.g., = the Ring hones in on its master=E2=80=99s will. Yet another compared it to= a computer program (!? - good grief, and I thought I was bad with "scienti= fiction.") See FAQs about the Rings of Power for more than you ever wanted to know about the One a= nd the other Rings. Although content of that web site is detailed, I am he= sitant to call it authoritative. The content often veers toward opinion and= interpretation of canon. Not that there=E2=80=99s anything wrong with tha= t, but nothing=E2=80=99s written in stone or engraved in gold, as it were. = There are lots of interesting theories in the FAQs. The commentary on th= e Rings via a= blog dedicated to the Inklings is somewhat more objective. Without going = into detail, in the pandemoniverse, the Ring=E2=80=99s sentience actually i= s Sauron, or at least a significant fraction of his being. Separation from = the Ring was not something that he considered (see also Letter 131) so bein= g trapped in what amounts to sensory deprivation was not in his plans. Tha= t deprivation plays into the pandemoniacal theory on the profound impact th= at incarnation had on the Maiar. For the Ring to work most effectively, it= needs an incarnate being, whether that being is Sauron or another that can= command it. Now Anglachel? That sucker could speak! The Ring, OTOH, did= not. (1) I have alluded in the past to the debates over - and interpretat= ion of - Tolkienian canon as akin to a group of rabbis arguing over the fin= e points of Talmudic law or Jesuit scholars addressing the number of angels= dancing on the head of a pin. :^) --2-6560030717-1091091206=:8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But then I started wondering, if the ring is sentient, could it power ex= ist independent of Sauron?

Good question.  Based on the fol= lowing from Letter 131 (to Milton Waldman) in The Letters of JRRT, I= would say yes, it is independent in that it could be bent to another=E2=80= =99s will, if that will is strong enough:

"...He rules a growing empire from the great dark tower of Bar= ad-d=C3=BBr in Mordor, near to the Mountain of Fire, wielding the One Ring.=

"But to achieve this he had been obliged to let a great part of his= own inherent power (a frequent and very significant motive in myth and fai= ry-story) pass into the One Ring. While he wore it, his power on earth was = actually enhanced.  But even if he did not wear it, that power existed= and was in =E2=80=98rapport=E2=80=99 with himself: he was not =E2=80=98dim= inished=E2=80=99. Unless some other seized it and became possessed of it. I= f that happened, the new possessor could (if sufficiently strong and heroic= by nature) challenge Sauron, become master of all that he had learned or d= one since the making of the One Ring, and so overthrow him and usurp his pl= ace. This was the essential weakness he had introduced into his situation i= n his effort (largely unsuccessful) to enslave the Elves, and in his desire= to establish a control over the minds and wills of his servants."

<= /font>In The Silmarillion ("Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age"= ), Sauron is 'diminished' in the sense that his body is destroyed/slain, hi= s spirit flees, etc.

There have been numerous debates (1) concerning= the =E2=80=9Cwill=E2=80=9D of the Ring.  Others as nerdly - or even m= ore so - than myself have theorized that its =E2=80=9Csentience=E2=80=9D is= akin to something like a dog, e.g., the Ring hones in on its master=E2=80= =99s will.  Yet another compared it to a computer program (!? - good g= rief, and I thought I was bad with "scientifiction.")  See  = FAQs about the Ri= ngs of Power  for more than you ever wanted to know about the One = and the other Rings.  Although content of that web site is detailed, I= am hesitant to call it authoritative. The content often veers toward opini= on and interpretation of canon.  Not that there=E2=80=99s anything = wrong with that, but nothing=E2=80=99s written in stone or engraved in = gold, as it were.  There are lots of interesting theories in the FAQs.=   The  commentary on the Rings via a blog dedicated to the I= nklings is somewhat more objective.

Without going into detail, in th= e pandemoniverse, the Ring=E2=80=99s sentience actually is Sauron, o= r at least a significant fraction of his being. Separation from the Ring wa= s not something that he considered (see also Letter 131) so being trapped i= n what amounts to sensory deprivation was not in his plans.  That depr= ivation plays into the pandemoniacal theory on the profound impact that inc= arnation had on the Maiar.  For the Ring to work most effectively, it = needs an incarnate being, whether that being is Sauron or another that can = command it.

Now Anglachel?  That sucker could speak!&nbs= p; The Ring, OTOH, did not.

(1) I have alluded in the past to the de= bates over - and interpretation of - Tolkienian canon as akin to a group of= rabbis arguing over the fine points of Talmudic law or Jesuit scholars add= ressing the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin. :^)


<= br> --2-6560030717-1091091206=:8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1247 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98606 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2007 04:04:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2007 04:04:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2007 04:04:37 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id l24so2919535waf for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:04:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.1 with SMTP id g1mr787386wak.1195617876936; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:04:36 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.92.15 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:04:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:04:36 -0500 To: "Henneth Annun" , SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_25967_3815127.1195617876933" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Commentary on the "Tale of Tinuviel" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Ky2rKy8oQ5V3dz-I3qefNW7db3V4sec8rW0kjEmtxcPI21YbH3zb X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_25967_3815127.1195617876933-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1248 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50180 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 14:05:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2007 14:05:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2007 14:05:54 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 70396 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Nov 2007 14:05:53 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: pmpdQlcVM1n134oOcvnIzqWMCthCMm0TRAVoIWO8p2m7iUKsOW.nOXpDzIYk5WkidA-- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:05:53 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/818.27 YahooMailWebService/0.7.157 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:05:53 -0800 (PST) To: Elizabeth , Elizabeth James , Ellie , Elliska , Erica Jean , Fanged Geranium , Fingolfin , Gandalfs apprentice , Gemini , Gene_and_Judy_Fox , Gina , Gina , Ginger Cc: Ginnie_Mauro , Greyson , Haleth , Haleth2 , Isabell Etz , Isil , Jaymz Kennedy , Jenn , Jennifer Bradford , Jennifer Smith , Jesse Blaze Snider , Jessica Ramage , Jessica Sullivan , Jim___Kristy___Critter , Johnny Terris , Joyce_Leak , Karen_Pyskaty , Katie , keiliss , Lady M , larian_elensar , Laura Beer , Lisa_Black , Lori , LydiaB , Lynn Pisces , Malloc , maram68 , Marci Barrow , Margaret Longstreth , Maria Thinks your crazy , Marigold , Mario-New , Mark_Hensley , Marta , Mermie , MerryK , Mia , Michael Virts , Mistress Morgaine Le Faye , Mouse * , Moxie , Nancy Brooke , Neume , New Vladazhael , Nilmandra , Ningloreth , Oshun , Pagan Spirit , Paul , Paula , Priestess of Avalon , Princess of Rock , Raven at work , Regina , Rhapsody , Rhapsody2 , rohannion , Rous , Sally_Tilbury_1 , Schleppy , Sharon_Clodfelter , Shasta Seagle , sherrie nock , Sheyla Costa , SilmarillionWritersGuild , Silver Moon Lady , "Susan@pinkpassion" , Suzi , SuziAtWork , Sweet Dreams , TalonRiva , Tella *new* , Tenebrae , TexasGirl , Tirananniel , Tonita_work , Trekqueen , Tuxedo Elf , Vana , VES , Viv , Zee , "Susan@pinkpassion" , "Mom @home" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-960158013-1196172353=:69326" Message-ID: <652651.69326.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Pet lovers - PLEASE read and help out. It only takes a couple of minutes!! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=FFG0BU7VwB6fA0TG8uZr4fvlmZnG13CcRKgzi5qgR3-qYxzqrA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-960158013-1196172353=:69326 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Please go sign this petition. It just breaks my heart that they can get away with this. Gabby was "euthed" on a Monday by lethal injection, however she was underdosed. On Friday, a shelter worker went to the freezer and found her STILL ALIVE!! - under other dead puppies. This is the the THIRD TIME this has happened. The mayor has been made aware of all three times and is not real concerned ( he was defeated in the election). The mayor told the shelter worker to have Gabby euthed again. She refused and Gabby is being sent to a rescue tomorrow. We are asking them to review and change their euthanasia practices/policies as they obviously are not working. Safeguards should be in place so that this does not EVER occur again. At a minimum someone should be double checking to be sure the animal does not have a heartbeat before it is thrown into the freezer http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/gabby-was-euthanized-lived-four-days-in-a-freezer ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come with you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ --0-960158013-1196172353=:69326 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

 

Please go sign this petition. It just breaks my heart that they can get away with this.

 

 

Gabby was "euthed" on a Monday by lethal injection, however she was underdosed. On Friday, a shelter worker went to the freezer and found her STILL ALIVE!! - under other dead puppies. This is the the THIRD TIME this has happened. The mayor has been made aware of all three times and is not real concerned ( he was defeated in the election). The mayor told the shelter worker to have Gabby euthed again. She refused and Gabby is being sent to a rescue tomorrow. We are asking them to review and change their euthanasia practices/policies as they obviously are not working. Safeguards should be in place so that this does not EVER occur again. At a minimum someone should be double checking to be sure the animal does not have a heartbeat before it is thrown into the freezer

 

 

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/gabby-was-euthanized-lived-four-days-in-a-freezer

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come with you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. --0-960158013-1196172353=:69326-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1249 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70871 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2007 19:43:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2007 19:43:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n25b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.238) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2007 19:43:48 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2007 19:43:45 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2007 19:43:45 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2007 19:43:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 19:43:44 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Fanfic Advent Calendar - December 1 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=XcM38r3nfxqbkAWxh_Jcpiuskaspq47mvU1ZyhaM8PxtZvsykA X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic The "There and Back Again" - fan fiction advent calendar is back! Last yea= r we had a lot of fun with our fan fiction advent calendar. We would like t= o revive that fun. And here are the rules for this year: 1. There will be= a post each day. 2. That post will contain a link to an image. 3. Click on= the link, look at the picture, use it as a source of inspiration and write= a drabble or a ficlet! 4. Share your results at the LiveJournal Community = "There and Back Again" (http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dther= e_n_back) Have FUN! *** And here is the first cue for our "There and Bac= k Again" fan fiction advent calendar 2007! Please take a look at this pict= ure: http://www.herrderringe-net.de/kalender/1/riddle.jpg Let yourself be= inspired and share your results! And now ... ... one, two, three, drabbl= e! Yours JunoMagic and Aranel Took *** "There and Back Again (and how to= get there in the first place)" - a writers' workshop for Tolkien fan ficti= on in LJ style: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dthere_n_back= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1250 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45715 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2007 00:35:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2007 00:35:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n47a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.141) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2007 00:35:42 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n47.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2007 00:35:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2007 00:35:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2007 00:35:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:35:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: End of MEFA Voting Approaches X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=f4cV0QD1WcKYi3o9HB2c2VWsLRfISY_Qw6G35nQ0Kx99gPBvJivT8SQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard On behalf of Marta, I am passing along this news: Hey guys, Just a friend= ly reminder: the 2007 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards are coming to an end a= t the end of this month. All reviews must be submitted by 11:59 PM on Decem= ber 30, no exceptions. (As with all MEFA times, that's GMT.) Also, if you h= ave entered any draft reviews that you would like to be counted, please mak= e sure you change them to hidden or final reviews by that same date. Please= note: December 30 is NOT the last day of the year. December has 31 days. V= oting for the MEFAs ends on the day *before* New Year's Eve. (It's just the= way the calendar worked out.) It's not too late to get involved. You stil= l have the better part of a month to write reviews for any of the nominated= stories. For most people, you'll need to join the MEFAwards Yahoo group; y= ou'll be sent a password to our voting website within a day or two of joini= ng the listserv. (Nominated authors: you can vote using the same password y= ou used to fill in the information about your stories.) If you've lost a p= assword or need help participating in the awards, please email mefasupport(= at)gmail(dot)com. I'll answer your questions as quickly as possible. You ca= n also check out our FAQ at http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2007/index.php?pag= e=3DFAQ. We'll announce the results of the awards shortly after the New Y= ear. Thanks, everyone, for all of your participation. Marta (MEFA Admin) = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1251 Return-Path: X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67583 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2007 05:46:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2007 05:46:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.217) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2007 05:46:52 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2007 05:46:49 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2007 05:46:49 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2007 05:46:49 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:46:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "jilba25au" Subject: SSP: A Different Point of View X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7317848; y=wm8X6su__QFQYUAMyd2UaV3lG20KkiZ-BEJX0Y4ZUpg8Uob- X-Yahoo-Profile: jilba25au The Fall of Numenor from the POV of a very unusual character. http://www.= tolkienfanfiction.com/Story_Read_Head.php?STid=3D907 http://www.fanfiction= .net/s/3952869/1/A_Different_Point_of_View From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1252 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1979 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2007 19:49:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2007 19:49:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2007 19:49:15 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id l35so8057903waf.12 for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:49:15 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.202.15 with SMTP id z15mr13369837waf.72.1199130555186; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:49:15 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:49:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:49:15 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_643_1980428.1199130555173" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: January Newsletter and Happy New Year! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mSFXSFiTju0QlVIAFofyGJoDOAX0m7vPGrabAzV5A1YdTihI-J-S X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_643_1980428.1199130555173-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1253 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 35106 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2008 02:53:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2008 02:53:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.128) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2008 02:53:21 -0000 Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n1.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2008 02:53:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2008 02:53:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2008 02:53:20 -0000 X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32698 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2008 20:47:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2008 20:47:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO fg-out-1718.google.com) (72.14.220.156) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2008 20:47:51 -0000 X-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e21so2425956fga.12 for ; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 12:47:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.86.78.4 with SMTP id a4mr13718568fgb.3.1199220470382; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 12:47:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.86.26.14 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Jan 2008 12:47:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 12:47:50 -0800 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_16945_11456921.1199220470337" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: "Jane Fink" Subject: Fic: I Will Find You *Fingolfin/Ariannon(OC)* FPS 1/1 R X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=kny5NjD8ebYul9o2JF6DGT9leZYlbY_G8wtnACnKgPuw X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 02 Jan 2008 02:53:19 -0000 ------=_Part_16945_11456921.1199220470337-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1254 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71180 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2008 23:15:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2008 23:15:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.158) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2008 23:15:34 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2008 23:15:34 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2008 23:15:34 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2008 23:15:34 -0000 Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:15:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: MEFA 2007 Results Announced X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=15Qb58yB9DTJBj7dCbTs4otdkMvKbcXPs745EhBS20th8yoz9HQU1lk X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard The results of the 2007 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards have been announced.= You can find them at our website, http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2007/ . Jus= t log in (or click "log in as guest" if you're not a member) and click on t= he first link, "2007 MEFA Story Results." Here you will find a listing of w= hat stories won in what categories as well as links to the reviews our memb= ers have written about these stories as part of the competition. Also - th= is Sunday, we will begin our annual post-mortem to look at how we can impro= ve the awards for next year. Feel free to join in at the Yahoo group "mefa-= discussions." Thanks to everyone for their support and participation; it's= been a great run, and I look forward to doing the whole thing again next y= ear. Marta (MEFA Admin.) --- Congrats to all who placed! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1255 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83211 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2008 17:56:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2008 17:56:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2008 17:56:49 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j4so11218885wah.21 for ; Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:56:49 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.25.3 with SMTP id 3mr18969860way.22.1199469408677; Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:56:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:56:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:56:48 -0500 To: SWG , moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13237_25573826.1199469408673" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=R9vJIOR_oxV_aghK3K8YLzMHcXWfnEpqxjwiKzywKnhweTuoI3PK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_13237_25573826.1199469408673-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1256 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6317 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2008 18:01:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2008 18:01:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.232) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2008 18:01:50 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s9so2117561wxc.32 for ; Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:01:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.158.17 with SMTP id g17mr5302106wfe.234.1199469709690; Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:01:49 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?66.61.110.183? ( [66.61.110.183]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i52sm10993rne.2.2008.01.04.10.01.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:01:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <477E7390.6030203@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:57:36 -0500 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Cc: moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=cMlUPaUbGnDiD5MyVLtgQWNDk3g_fJibE9aJmyS5sZ8QYSdRElT8PA X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, I'm not the most active participant, but for what it's worth I have no strong feelings on this issue. Certainly I wouldn't mind my posts being made publicly visible, and if you think it would help other researchers, you have my blessing. Marta Dawn Felagund wrote: [snip] > However, since this group was founded on the idea of private archives > and this has also been our policy, then this is not a decision that I > want to make lightly or without consulting with the group members first. > What do you all think of this? Do you want public archives or things to > stay the way that they are? I welcome all feedback on this matter. If > you hate the idea, feel free to tell me as much ... and in those words > are fine too. :) If you have misgivings or concerns, please feel free to > voice them. > > If you like the idea or it doesn't matter much either way, I'd also like > to hear from you. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1257 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47928 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2008 18:17:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2008 18:17:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2008 18:17:17 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 45925 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jan 2008 18:17:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: COcwPLQVM1li.r7UkMi1bGWuPwF5_AJWsR7kImTAyfq0tC7FJ3K1r0vaWR2bBGdUznVeFOyl71d3uQOZiWCErNCSdatOGqWPEfQteHRd8dna.QZcOUGUufRQolEy_ok0UKnkMDITzjrdQFg- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:17:16 PST Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:17:16 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-504915066-1199470636=:45302" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <714002.45302.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=Ii4rebTPcHKTQ4lUfxwu2NR4ZTye3S07XIXHydrj0UWxt_6Msw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-504915066-1199470636=:45302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm not very active but I had no idea you could set it to be private so I just assumed it was all public anyway. You know what they say about assuming lol Anyway - the point being, it doesn't bother me a bit if its private or public. I'll refrain from acting like an *ss if possible. I'll even promise to keep my comments about Sindar lovers as nice possible (since they're sissies anyway) *ducks from Elliska and Binka* j/k lmao ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-504915066-1199470636=:45302 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I'm not very active but I had no idea you could set it to be private so I just assumed it was all public anyway. You know what they say about assuming lol Anyway - the point being, it doesn't bother me a bit if its private or public. I'll refrain from acting like an *ss if possible.  I'll even promise to keep my comments about Sindar lovers as nice possible (since they're sissies anyway) *ducks from Elliska and Binka*
 
j/k
 
lmao


~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-504915066-1199470636=:45302-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1258 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21073 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2008 18:55:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2008 18:55:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2008 18:55:27 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cf2.23eae417 (32913) for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:55:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:55:24 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1199472924" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=LGlQnN1GZ0RBunyHHINPtTVZ5037f5dSraJ84xbrLqXU03ijMcXA X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1199472924 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I say make it public. I can't recall anything humilating enough that I have posted there to offset the value of having the discussions, scholarly in some cases and just plain hilarious in others, available to posterity. Oshun **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------------------------1199472924 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I say make it pub= lic. I can't recall anything humilating enough that I have posted there to= offset the value of having the discussions, scholarly in some cases and j= ust plain hilarious in others, available to posterity.
 
Oshun



Start th= e year off right. Easy ways to stay in s= hape in the new year.
-------------------------------1199472924-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1259 Return-Path: X-Sender: eledhwen913@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48705 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2008 23:28:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2008 23:28:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2008 23:28:20 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2008 23:28:20 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2008 23:28:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2008 23:28:20 -0000 Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 23:28:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "eledhwen913" Subject: Re: Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=324963557; y=66iqINT6EkOdeM2dlA36-J3ms6sUcPKmPqHGrefsSMxBEl7S3Zs X-Yahoo-Profile: eledhwen913 I think it's a good idea to make the message archives public. There are pl= enty of Silmarillion fans out there who might want to learn extra info abo= ut the canon, I'm sure. I wouldn't mind, considering that this is my first= post in all, I think. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1260 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51945 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2008 23:36:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2008 23:36:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2008 23:36:06 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59E2E58008 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2008 00:35:59 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2008 00:35:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 00:36:01 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <18943885.20080105003601@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=6DT5DDq_w1OojAYjgHxMY42CqWvbJPYxLzQf4mfLFuC5m3EL2sI X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, so you want to open Pandora's box and let the 'Melkor had no penis' post out? O_o ;) No problem, in the end it wasn't but that Mary Sue of Himring typing ;D Seriously - I got nothing against making posts public. If I wrote something to all of you, than I would write it the same to others. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1262 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16525 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2008 02:03:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2008 02:03:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2008 02:03:24 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bbf.218e68e8 (14467) for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2008 21:03:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 21:03:16 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1199498596" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=YzKBEr8ORprG_vhUxqqFqo1kzz8hvpHj6NxeumWPveaw7UqyiazJ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1199498596 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wouldn't a google search by key words or phrases find the subject one is seeking? That is how I look for things. Not by hopping from one website to another and searching their archives. On spam: most spam is produced by programs that create random email names, not by individuals looking for real email names and making lists of them. I get one or less pieces of spam a week and am all over the places under this email address. I use AOL, however, which I have found has a real good spam filter. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------------------------1199498596 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Wouldn't a google= search by key words or phrases find the subject one is seeking? That= is how I look for things. Not by hopping from one website to another and = searching their archives.
 
On spam: most spam i= s produced by programs that create random email names, not by in= dividuals looking for real email names and making lists of them. I get one= or less pieces of spam a week and am all over the places under this email= address. I use AOL, however, which I have found has a real good spam filt= er.



Start the year off r= ight. Easy ways to stay in shape i= n the new year.
-------------------------------1199498596-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1263 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41819 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2008 02:52:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2008 02:52:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n29b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.250) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2008 02:52:49 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n29.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2008 02:52:49 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2008 02:52:49 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2008 02:52:49 -0000 Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 02:52:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=ZxhdITaXvjpkUZZZz028bSTGX6nBZU0CKvuhz1nV8I9ila96zKoa5jz_ X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 I have no problem with going public. I unabashedly toss all manner of crap= on my blog, i.e., I have no shame. Whatever I've plastered up here is of i= nterest to a rather small subset (n=3D3) of Tolkienists so I rather doubt t= hat I'll draw any Googling trolls into this little haven, even if it become= s public. My e-mail's available to a much larger audience on my blog, and = I have experienced no difficulties so far. I have to hand it to gmail - t= he mail system has done a great job of filtering out spam - far better than= my "legitimate" e-mail. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1264 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54206 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2008 13:31:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2008 13:31:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2008 13:31:11 -0000 X-Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c63.234aee40 (37568) for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2008 08:31:07 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from FWM-M12 (fwm-m12.webmail.aol.com [64.12.168.76]) by cia-mb04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB045-92c0477f869b179; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 08:31:07 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 08:31:07 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-AOL-IP: 75.90.202.40 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA1DB65CDAB367_EB4_6F46_FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33706-STANDARD X-Received: from 75.90.202.40 by FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com (64.12.168.76) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 05 Jan 2008 08:31:07 -0500 Message-Id: <8CA1DB65CDAB367-EB4-3796@FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=GaedeCO8kBAENa201W85fKwS2bvrGwhRpFibrbXTvEizjhlVePboFq9gYCw ----------MB_8CA1DB65CDAB367_EB4_6F46_FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As a lurker, I have no problem going public either.? The spam really isn't an issue, Maeve.? I moderate HA, which is public and a good sized list?and basically you have to join in order to spam.? We've only had one spammer in quite a while.? Usually you can tell when it's a bot that wants to join because we have it set up so the membership has to be approved, and in the place where you ask why they want to join, a bot either leaves it blank or does something like---------.? You can usually spot the people who are joining to spam as well.? I have AOL, and I get very few spams.? I don't think those are particularly related to the list-they're as likely to come from sites I visit. Isabeau -----Original Message----- From: pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 9:52 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Making Message Archives Public? I have no problem with going public. I unabashedly toss all manner of crap on my blog, i.e., I have no shame. Whatever I've plastered up here is of interest to a rather small subset (n=3) of Tolkienists so I rather doubt that I'll draw any Googling trolls into this little haven, even if it becomes public. My e-mail's available to a much larger audience on my blog, and I have experienced no difficulties so far. I have to hand it to gmail - the mail system has done a great job of filtering out spam - far better than my "legitimate" e-mail. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ----------MB_8CA1DB65CDAB367_EB4_6F46_FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" As a lurker, I have no problem going public either.  The spam really isn't an issue, Maeve.  I moderate HA, which is public and a good sized list and basically you have to join in order to spam.  We've only had one spammer in quite a while.  Usually you can tell when it's a bot that wants to join because we have it set up so the membership has to be approved, and in the place where you ask why they want to join, a bot either leaves it blank or does something like---------.  You can usually spot the people who are joining to spam as well.  I have AOL, and I get very few spams.  I don't think those are particularly related to the list-they're as likely to come from sites I visit.

Isabeau


-----Original Message-----
From: pandemonium_213/Doc Bushwell
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 9:52 pm
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Making Message Archives Public?

I have no problem with going public. I unabashedly toss all manner of
crap on my blog, i.e., I have no shame. Whatever I've plastered up
here is of interest to a rather small subset (n=3) of Tolkienists so I
rather doubt that I'll draw any Googling trolls into this little
haven, even if it becomes public. My e-mail's available to a much
larger audience on my blog, and I have experienced no difficulties so
far.

I have to hand it to gmail - the mail system has done a great job of
filtering out spam - far better than my "legitimate" e-mail.

More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
----------MB_8CA1DB65CDAB367_EB4_6F46_FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1265 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77064 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2008 03:38:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2008 03:38:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2008 03:38:12 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k34so11523034wah.10 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:38:12 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.67.2 with SMTP id p2mr15853849waa.1.1199590691896; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:38:11 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sat, 5 Jan 2008 19:38:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 22:38:11 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_17232_3958385.1199590691894" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Making Message Archives Public?--email/spam concerns X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=TcX8pHM92wtcO7do6VE-LGfAzvOXBsgrWyqOPzSmjL4IWrKaVNsW X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_17232_3958385.1199590691894-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1266 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59329 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2008 19:13:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2008 19:13:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.131) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2008 19:13:08 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2008 19:13:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2008 19:13:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2008 19:13:07 -0000 Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:13:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=7tG4K8huSV9wojplCFk0vLQXNoKaLKlosyYgCBKN30eIPL9PdWcB0GDk X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses No problem with me. Just go ahead From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1267 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28188 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2008 19:47:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2008 19:47:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2008 19:47:00 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m38so13504736waf.16 for ; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:47:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.78.1 with SMTP id f1mr7096378wal.100.1199735220222; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:47:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:47:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:47:00 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23966_33279168.1199735220219" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=nYbm9bNp5Mcf9hJvrbtc3HCrXrnx5XMVPH0PAa8EMZp5h848iUSI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_23966_33279168.1199735220219-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1268 Return-Path: X-Sender: elennf569@rogers.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39379 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2008 00:00:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2008 00:00:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web88113.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.221) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2008 00:00:22 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 20962 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jan 2008 00:00:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Q3bPL4gVM1lNUtCmUaM.IUxLyfMvFn6JXZeTMxEW X-Received: from [99.245.167.159] by web88113.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:00:21 EST Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:00:21 -0500 (EST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-662808715-1199750421=:18089" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <566962.18089.qm@web88113.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Ed or Jennifer Lennox Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226967330; y=V9ux5aSyhEiGlyESCGX84Aiwy4wPoqiJs5XqLsvj9tEN8u954a4W3Sa8CrZa73k X-Yahoo-Profile: tenehil --0-662808715-1199750421=:18089 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Dawn! Just a quick note on this subject: when I have more time I'll read all the posts thoroughly. I tend to think going public should be okay, but I can't having a few niggly doubts and reservations about it. I guess the main reason would be as you mentioned here, that ex-members might not want their stuff going public without their approval. I also worry that the site might be open to heaps of abuse. You know how many nutjobs there are lurking around the 'Net, and I'm not just being paranoid. Anyway, what you wrote makes a lot of sense, so I'm in agreement with you. Cheers, Love, Jenni Dawn Felagund wrote: Hi, everyone, I just want to give a quick update on what's been discussed and decided so far. First of all, again, many thanks to all of you who gave me feedback, either on the list or privately. Your input has been very valuable. The majority opinion seems to be that changing the archives to public is acceptable or good for the group. However, I want to reiterate again that no decision has been made on this yet. If you hate the idea, please speak up. If you're okay with going public, feel free to continue speaking up. I won't bring everyone's feedback to my comods for a final decision until the beginning of February at the earliest to give everyone a chance to be heard. In talking to all of you, though, I am going to take a few additional steps. First, I will post an announcement on the Site Updates section of our homepage (that appears on every page, in the sidebar) to hopefully reach a broader audience. I'm sure there are people who joined this list when it was first formed who no longer check in but might read stories on the website. Hopefully, I can reach a few of them this way. Also, if we do decide to go public, I will first personally contact everyone who has ever posted to the list (if I have not heard from them already) to let them know of the decision. This is not as daunting as it sounds; we only have 70/80 members (the exact number eludes me, atm), most of whom have never posted. I think we have two ex-members who once posted. In that way, no one will get any surprises a year from now when they discover that a once-private group has gone public. As I have done with our current members, they will have the option to have any of their content deleted, if they wish. So that's where we stand. Thanks again and my best wishes to all, Dawn Felagund Jenni Hala Madrid Argentina Forever --0-662808715-1199750421=:18089 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Dawn!
 
Just a quick note on this subject: when I have more time I'll read all the posts thoroughly.
 
I tend to think going public should be okay, but I can't having a few niggly doubts and reservations about it.  I guess the main reason would be as you mentioned here, that ex-members might not want their stuff going public without their approval.  I also worry that the site might be open to heaps of abuse.  You know how many nutjobs there are lurking around the 'Net, and I'm not just being paranoid.
 
Anyway, what you wrote makes a lot of sense, so I'm in agreement with you.
 
Cheers,
 
Love, Jenni

Dawn Felagund wrote:
Hi, everyone,
 
I just want to give a quick update on what's been discussed and decided so far.
 
First of all, again, many thanks to all of you who gave me feedback, either on the list or privately. Your input has been very valuable.
 
The majority opinion seems to be that changing the archives to public is acceptable or good for the group. However, I want to reiterate again that no decision has been made on this yet. If you hate the idea, please speak up. If you're okay with going public, feel free to continue speaking up. I won't bring everyone's feedback to my comods for a final decision until the beginning of February at the earliest to give everyone a chance to be heard.
 
In talking to all of you, though, I am going to take a few additional steps.
 
First, I will post an announcement on the Site Updates section of our homepage (that appears on every page, in the sidebar) to hopefully reach a broader audience. I'm sure there are people who joined this list when it was first formed who no longer check in but might read stories on the website. Hopefully, I can reach a few of them this way.
 
Also, if we do decide to go public, I will first personally contact everyone who has ever posted to the list (if I have not heard from them already) to let them know of the decision. This is not as daunting as it sounds; we only have 70/80 members (the exact number eludes me, atm), most of whom have never posted. I think we have two ex-members who once posted. In that way, no one will get any surprises a year from now when they discover that a once-private group has gone public. As I have done with our current members, they will have the option to have any of their content deleted, if they wish.
 
So that's where we stand. Thanks again and my best wishes to all,
 
Dawn Felagund



Jenni
Hala Madrid
Argentina Forever
--0-662808715-1199750421=:18089-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1269 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98197 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2008 00:38:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2008 00:38:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2008 00:38:18 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so14335323wah.24 for ; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:38:18 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.92.2 with SMTP id u2mr237768wal.139.1199752697895; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:38:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Jan 2008 16:38:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:38:17 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_24971_23578894.1199752697895" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Tolkien and Science Commentary Recommendation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=2GLPthF0qE78UT1PQvdV2aVzHT4U_PD_0H4iMVTGqVCNp8PzqvLT X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_24971_23578894.1199752697895-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1270 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93944 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2008 01:44:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2008 01:44:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2008 01:44:47 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j37so86372waf.7 for ; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:44:47 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.167.2 with SMTP id p2mr137589wae.78.1199843086821; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:44:46 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jan 2008 17:44:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:44:46 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_30975_17459248.1199843086820" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Site Is Down X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=XLANywNYfJBLx3kStOohjOYtqxMZk2PvtHT3bdQMrGmtuiaCLeEX X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_30975_17459248.1199843086820-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1271 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62148 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2008 01:51:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2008 01:51:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.188) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2008 01:51:07 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2008 01:51:07 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2008 01:51:07 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2008 01:51:07 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:51:06 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Site Is Down X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KLqzshCTTRgQeD8oSgWDGMfVPf8_CucUkDg6akMYD9X3cqU46oHt X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Clarification: the *main* site is down. The archive appears to be working j= ust fine which is ... odd. It's usually the other way around: the main sit= e works great, but the archive database goes out and we can't access the st= ories. Anyway, I hope this makes it a little less painless. Also, it's hope= ful in that, three hours ago, I was unable to reply to a review and couldn'= t get the archive to work either. Optimistic Me takes this as a sign that B= lueHost might be working to get us back online. Thanks again for your unde= rstanding and patience, Dawn F., who is going to take advantage of the arc= hive working to back up the database again, just in case ... ;) --- In Sil= marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" w= rote: > > Hi, everyone, > > If the heading didn't give it away, the websit= e is down and has been for the > past few hours. I have a help ticket in wi= th BlueHost, so I hope everything > will be fixed soon. I just wanted every= one to know that there is a problem, > and I am aware of it. I'm sorry for = any convenience this causes. :( > > Dawn F. > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagu= nd > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1272 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53906 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2008 02:44:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2008 02:44:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.102.100) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2008 02:44:18 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n17.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2008 02:44:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2008 02:44:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2008 02:44:18 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:44:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Site Is Down X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=QdmMTBtylmRjsCu0D97pLYl90Y7DyU3WXWlHJVGoX4LwMyhgAYVF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, everyone, I promise that this will be my last post about this tonight.= :) I figured out a solution to the problem, and I have the index page bac= k up and running. I suspect that the problem has to do with some recent cha= nges to the version of PHP that our webhost uses; I have a ticket in with t= hem in hopes that they will offer me a solution to the problem that does *n= ot* involve having to change and re-upload one hundred webpages tomorrow ev= ening. It is getting late here, so I can't work on this anymore tonight. M= ost of the site will remain down until tomorrow unless our host intercedes = on our behalf. If not, I will implement the necessary fixes and we'll be up= in 24 hours at the latest. In the meantime, you will be able to access the= main index page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index.php And t= he story archive: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/ I= f anyone needs anything off of the other pages, *please* do not hesitate to= email me; I can send a text file of whatever you need. Thanks again for y= our patience. And, yes, this is really the last email about it. :) Expect e= verything to be up and running again by this time tomorrow. All the best, = Dawn Felagund, who is really not having a good night :( From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1273 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71619 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2008 03:24:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2008 03:24:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n49a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.143) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2008 03:24:14 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n49.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 03:24:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 03:24:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 03:24:14 -0000 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 03:24:13 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <566962.18089.qm@web88113.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Making Message Archives Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=AGX_Jcfr0y9vLS4tdLqwumNwnPoIQBtJiA6aEvTT3LocxUYzdDBk X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, everyone, Thanks for the continuing discussion on whether or not to ch= ange the message archive settings from members-only to public. You all have= brought up excellent points that we hadn't thought of when initially discu= ssing this issue among the group's mods. We've looked closer at the group's= security and Yahoo!'s privacy protections as a result. Since we want to b= e as fair as possible, then we've put together a poll on our website. We ar= e polling both current members of the Yahoo! group (which is you, if you ar= e receiving this message) and people who are former members or not members.= We would greatly appreciate if everyone could take a moment to take the po= ll; it is only one question and takes only a few seconds. Even if you have = chimed in during this discussion, please take a moment to take the poll as = well. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/about/faq/faq27.php#poll Th= e poll is attached to an FAQ that addresses some of the important or recurr= ing issues that have arisen during this discussion, particularly where spam= and privacy protection is concerned. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/about/faq/faq27.php If you do not find that your concern is answered h= ere, please feel free to email us. All of the group's mods can be reached a= t moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. I can be reached privately= at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. All comments are welcome at either addre= ss. Thanks again for the input! Dawn Felagund From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1274 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82817 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2008 05:20:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2008 05:20:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n53b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.167) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2008 05:20:54 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n53.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 05:20:54 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 05:20:54 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 05:20:54 -0000 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 05:20:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: True nature of characters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=dxm8w3cm7CbtudBNTVVOewc_vbmc6ASzOJjUCwF6LAqlzXjMXmDih_PbpA X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Hi Folks, Sorry for my long absence. But I have a really good reason! and that's why I have been away :) Anyway, lately I have = been thinking about how we perceive certain characters and whether we unco= nsciously making them out to be more good or bad depending on how much we = personally like them/not like them in our fan fics. One character who suf= fers excessive hate is of course Maeglin. Almost all the fics, no matter a= t which period of his life it is set, seem to paint him as this malicious = character that is out to do harm to everybody around him. However, I think= a lot of it is unjustified. Maeglin probably had a massive chip on his sh= oulder given his birth and upbringing and he clearly wasn't liked by every= body in Gondolin if only because of his father but there is no evidence he= was actively plotting anything til Tuor showed up. But the guy just does= n't catch a break at the hands of fandom writers. Maglor is one character = who is often loved to excess by all concerned. It's almost as if we suffer= from battered wife syndrome or something. I mean, speaking for myself, I = am never amazed at how I can twist everything freaking thing he has ever d= one, including the blatantly evil things he has done and still manage to m= ake him look sympathetic and someone who... well needs a hug... well I do = think Maglor needs a hug but... Anyway, what do you guys think? Any chara= cters you would like to mention as possibly being too loved or too hated w= ithout due cause? -Tinni From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1275 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49467 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2008 05:37:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2008 05:37:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2008 05:37:54 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d64.1c254c91 (14502) for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 00:37:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 00:37:45 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1200202665" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] True nature of characters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=wzOi-37Yn_mKQCRsZ6cPdGZNQJTlgdUZaLlUr4-b4SNvzrvGjLpq X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1200202665 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/13/2008 12:21:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com writes: Maeglin probably had a massive chip on his shoulder given his birth and upbringing and he clearly wasn't liked by everybody in Gondolin if only because of his father but there is no evidence he was actively plotting anything til Tuor showed up. But the guy just doesn't catch a break at the hands of fandom writers. Very, very interesting that you should raise this tonight. I just had an IM discussion about him a little less than two hours ago taking basically that postion. Maglor is one character who is often loved to excess by all concerned. It's almost as if we suffer from battered wife syndrome or something. I mean, speaking for myself, I am never amazed at how I can twist everything freaking thing he has ever done, including the blatantly evil things he has done and still manage to make him look sympathetic and someone who... well needs a hug... well I do think Maglor needs a hug but... Another one: I am working on a story cycle now in which Maglor figures as a major supporting character and have been going out of my way to present him at very least as not a sweet and simple victim and certainly not a blind follower of his older brother, but as second only to Maedhros among the Feanorians in the ability to think politically. He is not soft in my personal canon. (Although, I admit, I do like him a lot. But then I like all of Feanor's son, so I don't really count.) My least favorite oversimplications or lack of complexity in characterzation are the blanket assumptions of: Finrod = good; Feanor = bad; Fingon = manipulated. I'm not saying that people shouldn't write any of these things. But convince me, don't just state it. I am being interrupted now. But interested in discussing this in more detail. Oshun **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------------------------1200202665 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 1/13/2008 12:21:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com = writes:
Maeglin probably had a massive = chip on his shoulder given his birth
and upbringing and he clearly w= asn't liked by everybody in Gondolin
if only because of his father b= ut there is no evidence he was
actively plotting anything til Tuor s= howed up. But the guy just
doesn't catch a break at the hands of fan= dom writers.
Very, very interesting that you s= hould raise this tonight. I just had an IM discussion about him a little l= ess than two hours ago taking basically that postion.

Maglor is one character who is often loved to ex= cess by all
concerned. It's almost as if we suffer from battered wif= e syndrome or
something. I mean, speaking for myself, I am never ama= zed at how I
can twist everything freaking thing he has ever done, i= ncluding the
blatantly evil things he has done and still manage to m= ake him look
sympathetic and someone who... well needs a hug... well= I do think
Maglor needs a hug but...
Anoth= er one: I am working on a story cycle now in which Maglor figures as a maj= or supporting character and have been going out of my way to present him at= very least as not a sweet and simple victim and certainly not a blind fol= lower of his older brother, but as second only to Maedhros among the Feano= rians in the ability to think politically. He is not soft in my personal c= anon. (Although, I admit, I do like him a lot. But then I like all of Fean= or's son, so I don't really count.)
 
My least= favorite oversimplications or lack of complexity in characterzation are t= he blanket assumptions of: Finrod= =3D good; Feanor =3D bad; Fingon =3D manipulated. I'm not saying that peo= ple shouldn't write any of these things. But convince me, don't just state= it.
&nb= sp;
I am being interr= upted now. But interested in discussing this in more detail.
=
 
Oshun
 
=


Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new y= ear.
-------------------------------1200202665-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1276 Return-Path: X-Sender: eledhwen913@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11412 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2008 06:29:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2008 06:29:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n10b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.104) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2008 06:29:28 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n10.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 06:29:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 06:29:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 06:29:28 -0000 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 06:29:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "eledhwen913" Subject: Re: True nature of characters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=324963557; y=Ih3LPob46dBK0HLyLvag7vEhcp1TwfevScXK_xQF2bFOCfIKNa8 X-Yahoo-Profile: eledhwen913 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >= > In a message dated 1/13/2008 12:21:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, > shar= minchoudhury@... writes: > > Maeglin probably had a massive chip on his sh= oulder given his birth > and upbringing and he clearly wasn't liked by e= verybody in Gondolin > if only because of his father but there is no evid= ence he was > actively plotting anything til Tuor showed up. But the guy = just > doesn't catch a break at the hands of fandom writers. > > Very, v= ery interesting that you should raise this tonight. I just had an IM > d= iscussion about him a little less than two hours ago taking basically that= > postion. > > > Maglor is one character who is often loved to excess= by all > concerned. It's almost as if we suffer from battered wife syndr= ome or > something. I mean, speaking for myself, I am never amazed at ho= w I > can twist everything freaking thing he has ever done, including th= e > blatantly evil things he has done and still manage to make him look = > sympathetic and someone who... well needs a hug... well I do think > M= aglor needs a hug but... > Another one: I am working on a story cycle now = in which Maglor figures as a > major supporting character and have been = going out of my way to present him at > very least as not a sweet and si= mple victim and certainly not a blind > follower of his older brother, b= ut as second only to Maedhros among the Feanorians > in the ability to t= hink politically. He is not soft in my personal canon. > (Although, I ad= mit, I do like him a lot. But then I like all of Feanor's son, so > I don= 't really count.) > > My least favorite oversimplications or lack of co= mplexity in characterzation > are the blanket assumptions of: Finrod = =3D good; Feanor =3D bad; Fingon =3D > manipulated. I'm not saying that p= eople shouldn't write any of these things. But > convince me, don't just= state it. Yes, the "Finrod=3Dgood, Feanor=3Dbad,etc..." are ones that def= initely have a lack of complexity. I'm totally with you there Oshun. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1277 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93890 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2008 13:06:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2008 13:06:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.125) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2008 13:06:59 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 13:06:59 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 13:06:59 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2008 13:06:59 -0000 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:06:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: True nature of characters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=cGpLwD3GRTPmPTH85LjNQha1lDMN1hp5NZTuuRmrRzhbwoMGw8U6I6RVjg X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked > > My least favorite oversimplications or lack of complexity in charac= terzation > are the blanket assumptions of: Finrod =3D good; Feanor =3D b= ad; Fingon =3D > manipulated. Lack of complexity is certainly the key wo= rd here. I mean, most of these characters are not that straight forward to= figure out. Finrod is a prime example of that. Yes they guy is a very goo= d, decent, philosophical person who did sacrifice himself for the sake of = his friend. But he defined the Valar the same as every other Noldo who wen= t into exile. That's got to add shades of dark to his character. That is = not to say Finrod wasn't good. Just that I don't think it's as straight fo= rward as people make it out to be. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1278 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29321 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2008 18:45:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2008 18:45:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2008 18:45:18 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so3103890wah.24 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:45:18 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.78.1 with SMTP id a1mr1984876wab.102.1200249917685; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:45:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:45:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:45:17 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7664_20894553.1200249917681" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] True nature of characters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=zXW7CYlHF3CPm1cZGW08L3n4T0E0Bq454c8ICNFrVVDkyed4qF44 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_7664_20894553.1200249917681-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1279 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96874 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2008 06:35:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2008 06:35:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n11d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.60) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2008 06:35:34 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2008 06:35:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2008 06:35:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 06:35:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Seeking Beta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=d9yK1YicpAHE2drG_DMfGOsRn4FoLPs51mgaW8H5RTyexAjqqTQ4E2RaOg X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Hi all, Just some background, for those of you who don't know me, I am Tinn= i. I first started writing Tolkien fanfiction in 2003 and my first fic To= lkien fanfiction that I'll actually own upto was Thus we parted: http://ww= w.fanfiction.net/s/1269283/1/Thus_we_parted. Since then I have written man= y Tolkien fanfiction, most of which have been poorly received by both Tolk= ien fans and fanfiction critics (a sad but true fact). Anyway, the entire = sampling of my fanfiction work is available here: http://www.fanfiction.ne= t/~tinni. However, it's not what is there but what isn't there that has be= en haunting me for years, YEARS! So I have decided this is the year I am = going to do something about it. As a result, I am currently attempting to = write a fic that is a deliberately chronologically convaluted and is in es= sence three or four stories running together. It's called "Opus of tales u= ntold" and I think the title says it all. It's currently published through= Google docs here: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=3Ddfwhqjp8_1g7zpsgrr If= you are interested in betaing this story, please contact me with your goo= gle mail address so I can add you as a collaborator on google documents. B= ut please keep in mind, this is not a straight beta job of correcting spel= ling, grammer and makes sense of odd linguistic gymnastic I tend to perfor= m. I am also seeking someone who I would be able to bounce ideas off and d= iscuss things, someone who can think outside the box because I am a master= of finding obscure references in Tolkien's writing and building upon them= notions that border on the absurd. Anyway, I am not going to say somethi= ng melodramatic like this is the last tolkien fanfiction i will ever write= (no one can really make that claim, since the future is so unpredictable)= but I will say that this is a fanfiction I really need to get out of my s= ystem. REALLY need to get out of my system. So if you can help, let me kno= w. Thanks. -Tinni tinnic dot gmail dot com From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1280 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75663 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2008 21:01:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2008 21:01:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n30b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.253) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2008 21:01:23 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2008 21:01:23 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2008 21:01:23 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2008 21:01:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:01:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Intro (please excuse me) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=4LKZvQEq7MzvB_VRMB25Tj5QTf04wTLnCLmUlea5JtKMYus X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 Apologies for interrupting your conversation ;) It feels a liitle strange = to join what is clearly a close knit group of people with no introduction.= So here it is - basics first, and reasons later - please ignore at the po= int you find it boring! The most important bit is that I am not (and never= had any intention to be) a writer/author or any similar being. I'm an eng= ineer - I can do maths, I can organise schedules, but I never pretended to= write fiction. So I feel a bit lost now, and I'm hoping you guys can give= some pointers :-) I've been a Tolkien addict longer then you want to kno= w - err.. decades before the films came out. I'm pretty much a cannon fan = - but I don't mind if other people aren't (although I do like to see some = reasonable reason why characters act as they do, and yeah.. sorry - Denet= hor as portayed in the film annoys me!). Re-reading 'The Silmarillion', I = got this phrase stuck in my head, and wanted to write - seemed like I was = nuts. And then I found that there were actually other people who did the s= ame. Well, if I'm nuts, at least I have company! Most of the offered compa= ny seems a little erm... unhelpful(?), but this group writes some awesome = stuff, and looks like a place that could be home. Do you have a place for= a crazy engineer, who is better at smithing then writing? If you want som= eone to talk to about Noldor weapons or jewel-making, I'll sure help. In e= xchange, I need someone to read my first, poor attempts at crafting words.= Can someone tell me how I get a beta reader? Errr.. help? Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1281 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74853 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2008 21:07:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2008 21:07:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2008 21:07:57 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cfd.27e5b318 (39330) for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:07:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:07:38 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1201468058" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Intro (please excuse me) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=olY01osEwAaBHChr3aZCxxTWwUm4WMUWj-Im91IN7imvR1SOH6mJ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1201468058 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/27/2008 4:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, xjay2@hotmail.com writes: Can someone tell me how I get a beta reader? Errr.. help? I would suggest going to the Silmarillion Writers Guild story archive and checking out the writers and stories there. Find someone whose style and interests most closely match what interests you. Then check the author's profile. The profiles contain a notation as to whether an author is willing to find the time to Beta others' works or not. Oshun **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------------------------1201468058 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 1/27/2008 4:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, xjay2@hotmail.com writ= es:
Can someone tell me how I get a bet= a reader?

Errr.. help?
I would suggest going to the Silmarillion Writers Guild story archive an= d checking out the writers and stories there. Find someone whose style and= interests most closely match what interests you. Then check the author's = profile. The profiles contain a notation as to whether an author is willin= g to find the time to Beta others' works or not.
 
=
Oshun



Start the yea= r off right. Easy ways to stay in shape= in the new year.
-------------------------------1201468058-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1282 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58557 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2008 21:10:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2008 21:10:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2008 21:10:38 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 643553E825F for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:10:36 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:10:36 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:10:35 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <254764594.20080127221035@tlen.pl> To: moreth00 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Intro (please excuse me) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=nCce6MlQIDbIMtpxS89dmDXwXACc4ccdzUaNMt1LQJ6HJB8FSeQ X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Moreth, Welcome to SWG :) m> Do you have a place for a crazy engineer, who is better at smithing m> then writing? If you want someone to talk to about Noldor weapons or m> jewel-making, I'll sure help. In exchange, I need someone to read my m> first, poor attempts at crafting words. Very good! I'm not that much an author, but I like to draw some weapons on Noldor from time to time, so good advices will be appreciated :D m> Can someone tell me how I get a beta reader? Not me unfortunately (not native speaker), but I'm sure the group will help :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1283 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24255 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2008 21:27:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2008 21:27:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2008 21:27:58 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so2586792wah.24 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:27:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.108.1 with SMTP id k1mr336611wam.141.1201469278217; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:27:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:27:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:27:58 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6913_30929059.1201469278210" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Intro (please excuse me) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=_1uZq08sU6qEKCwXE_tqEERn75Maq5tWtmJeYFklVmm7dUUkvdWS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_6913_30929059.1201469278210-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1284 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48398 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2008 21:56:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2008 21:56:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.130) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2008 21:56:29 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2008 21:56:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2008 21:56:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2008 21:56:29 -0000 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:56:29 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Intro (please excuse me) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=gm7xnEENcD7GWlAih4XysyMOHyRKXRWyi_dIOGpCRQIE6jZ8dh8EvkIE X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wro= te: > > Apologies for interrupting your conversation ;) > > It feels a lii= tle strange to join what is clearly a close knit group > of people with no= introduction. So here it is - basics first, and > reasons later - please = ignore at the point you find it boring! > > The most important bit is that= I am not (and never had any intention > to be) a writer/author or any sim= ilar being. I'm an engineer - I can > do maths, I can organise schedules, = but I never pretended to write > fiction. So I feel a bit lost now, and I'= m hoping you guys can give > some pointers :-) > > I've been a Tolkien ad= dict longer then you want to know - err.. > decades before the films came = out. I'm pretty much a cannon fan - but > I don't mind if other people are= n't (although I do like to see some > reasonable reason why characters act= as they do, and yeah.. sorry - > Denethor as portayed in the film annoys = me!). > > Re-reading 'The Silmarillion', I got this phrase stuck in my hea= d, > and wanted to write - seemed like I was nuts. And then I found that = > there were actually other people who did the same. Well, if I'm nuts, > = at least I have company! Most of the offered company seems a little > erm.= .. unhelpful(?), but this group writes some awesome stuff, and > looks lik= e a place that could be home. > > Do you have a place for a crazy engineer= , who is better at smithing > then writing? If you want someone to talk to= about Noldor weapons or > jewel-making, I'll sure help. In exchange, I ne= ed someone to read my > first, poor attempts at crafting words. > > Can = someone tell me how I get a beta reader? > > Errr.. help? > > Moreth > W= oo hoo! Welcome, Moreth! I'm thrilled to see another techno-Tolkienist her= e! Although I'm not an engineer, I'm a biochemist so we're distantly relat= ed. And yes, I would *love* to talk to you about metallurgy and such. Hec= k, where were you when I was trying to wrap my head around the concept of a= eutectic point? ;^) I've only just leaped into this milieu myself about a= year ago. Although I'm far more experienced with scientific writing and a= lso contribute to a more-or-less science oriented blog, creative writing is= something I haven't engaged in for some time until recently so I'm still f= eeling my way around myself. That said, I'm certainly willing to give beta= 'ing a shot. I can at least provide a "Yeah, this entertains me!" feedback.= :^) My e-mail is docbushwellATgmailDOTcom. Please feel free to drop me a= line or several. pandemonium From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1285 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73897 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2008 22:04:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2008 22:04:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO fg-out-1718.google.com) (72.14.220.152) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2008 22:04:02 -0000 X-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e21so2753776fga.16 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:04:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.78.166.7 with SMTP id o7mr6380105hue.31.1201471441105; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:04:01 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d24sm819395nfh.19.2008.01.27.14.03.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:03:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <479CFFDF.5070503@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 23:04:15 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Intro (please excuse me) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=ZC0lFk3HkqXXGVxjtOLssSZ0X3goZGr7UsQAFVPfe2y8c1a729C6Uc4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Dawn Felagund wrote: Welcome Moreth! > > We definitely have a place for an engineer too. Actually, some of our > members aren't even writers; we have a few artists (like Sirielle, though > she has one lovely story up at our archive) and some who just read along and > chime in with their own thoughts on Tolkien's works and our creative > interpretations ... all are welcome here! And I'm sure that advice on > smithing would be most welcomed by the Feanorian fans we have around here > ... and that's more than a handful! Yups, I most certainly would be interested, although I do bounce ideas with Doc Bushwell regarding this (I bet she will be along shortly). > On beta-readers, I will repeat Oshun's suggestion about our archive. > Unfortunately, we don't yet have a way to filter out a list of beta-readers > (though the people who developed our software have hinted that it is > coming). Some sites maintain lists of beta-readers as well. I know that > Henneth-Annun Story Archive (HASA) does; does anyone else know of any > others? The Open Scrolls Archive has a beta reader thread and an essay on people looking for beta readers or for beta readers themselves. Let me know if I can link you up Moreth. > I can offer my own beta-reading services with the warning that I am slow as > molasses (as more than one person around here can attest), but if you can't > find anyone else, please don't hesitate to drop me a line, and we'll see > what we can work out. :) Another tip I want to give (its in the above mentioned essay as well), if you like an author here on the archive and it has the beta status enabled, contact that author or ask if the author can help to get in touch with their beta. Usually the beta likes the way the author writes or the characters/events the stories are about. > Again, welcome on board! I look forward to getting to know you better! :) Yups! Don't hesitate to participate. Rhapsody :c) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1286 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11557 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2008 22:42:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2008 22:42:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n50d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.48) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2008 22:42:54 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n50.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2008 22:42:54 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2008 22:42:54 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2008 22:42:54 -0000 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:42:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Intro (please excuse me) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=TzYozKd7t2vdiPviEDJ80Ce6wBj84adY2cRoqeI6vYUXRcc X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 Thanks so much for the welcome - really didn't expect that fast a response= from so many people! (How many typos did I *have* in that post? - No plea= se don't count them!) Oshun - Thanks Oshun. I pretty much blame your writ= ing for landing me here, but I have a *long* way to go before I can hold a= candle to that! Thank you for your stories and pointing where to go. Si= rielle - Thanks for making me feel I can help at all :) I'm happy to see y= our designs anytime - us mech. eng. guys have a saying 'If it's right, it = looks good'. I think that plays both ways - if it looks good, it's right! = Dawn - Thank you for even making a place like this! Slow would be no prob= lem, I guess you are overwhelmed with requests! I'll take Oshun's advice, = but I'm sure I'll be bugging you one day in the future... Pandemonium - He= y, someone else with a deep need to know the crystal structure of the Silm= arils :) I'll do metallurgy chat any time! Thank you so much for the offer= to read - anyone reading my stuff is... quite a scary idea! Rhapsody - = Thank you for the pointers for beta guys. For a newbie, it's hard to know = how to find anyone who might read my stuff. As for other boards - maybe in= a couple of days I'll have got my head around this one! I'll take it one = step at a time ;) Thank you for the welcome :D Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1287 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95366 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2008 22:56:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2008 22:56:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s32.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.168) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2008 22:56:38 -0000 X-Received: from BAY101-W26 ([64.4.56.126]) by bay0-omc2-s32.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:56:03 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: xjay2@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_28ef57ff-bdb0-4c45-b150-355fc2af4ac9_" To: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:56:03 +0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2008 22:56:03.0828 (UTC) FILETIME=[CB149B40:01C86137] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sara Thwaite Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Intro (please excuse me) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=J-WtViPdob-pxDWUfGu5oV3tmduBG6tC9jmSyIGiDCpCua0 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --_28ef57ff-bdb0-4c45-b150-355fc2af4ac9_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.comFrom: docbushwell@gmail.com= Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:56:29 +0000Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re= : Intro (please excuse me) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.= com, "moreth00" wrote:>> Apologies for interrupting your convers= ation ;)> > It feels a liitle strange to join what is clearly a close knit = group > of people with no introduction. So here it is - basics first, and >= reasons later - please ignore at the point you find it boring!> > The most= important bit is that I am not (and never had any intention > to be) a wri= ter/author or any similar being. I'm an engineer - I can > do maths, I can = organise schedules, but I never pretended to write > fiction. So I feel a b= it lost now, and I'm hoping you guys can give > some pointers :-)> > I've b= een a Tolkien addict longer then you want to know - err.. > decades before = the films came out. I'm pretty much a cannon fan - but > I don't mind if ot= her people aren't (although I do like to see some > reasonable reason why c= haracters act as they do, and yeah.. sorry - > Denethor as portayed in the = film annoys me!).> > Re-reading 'The Silmarillion', I got this phrase stuck= in my head, > and wanted to write - seemed like I was nuts. And then I fou= nd that > there were actually other people who did the same. Well, if I'm n= uts, > at least I have company! Most of the offered company seems a little = > erm... unhelpful(?), but this group writes some awesome stuff, and > look= s like a place that could be home.> > Do you have a place for a crazy engin= eer, who is better at smithing > then writing? If you want someone to talk = to about Noldor weapons or > jewel-making, I'll sure help. In exchange, I n= eed someone to read my > first, poor attempts at crafting words. > > Can so= meone tell me how I get a beta reader?> > Errr.. help?> > Moreth>Woo hoo! W= elcome, Moreth! I'm thrilled to see anothertechno-Tolkienist here! Although= I'm not an engineer, I'm abiochemist so we're distantly related. And yes, = I would *love* totalk to you about metallurgy and such. Heck, where were yo= u when Iwas trying to wrap my head around the concept of a eutectic point? = ;^)I've only just leaped into this milieu myself about a year ago. Although= I'm far more experienced with scientific writing and alsocontribute to a m= ore-or-less science oriented blog, creative writingis something I haven't e= ngaged in for some time until recently so I'mstill feeling my way around my= self. That said, I'm certainly willingto give beta'ing a shot. I can at lea= st provide a "Yeah, thisentertains me!" feedback. :^)My e-mail is docbushwe= llATgmailDOTcom. Please feel free to drop me aline or several. pandemonium = _________________________________________________________________ Te= lly addicts unite! http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml --_28ef57ff-bdb0-4c45-b150-355fc2af4ac9_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogr= oups.com
From: docbushwell@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:56:29 = +0000
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Intro (please excuse me)
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00= "
wrote:
>
> Apologies for interrupting yo= ur conversation ;)
>
> It feels a liitle strange to join what = is clearly a close knit group
> of people with no introduction. So h= ere it is - basics first, and
> reasons later - please ignore at the= point you find it boring!
>
> The most important bit is that = I am not (and never had any intention
> to be) a writer/author or an= y similar being. I'm an engineer - I can
> do maths, I can organise = schedules, but I never pretended to write
> fiction. So I feel a bit= lost now, and I'm hoping you guys can give
> some pointers :-)
&= gt;
> I've been a Tolkien addict longer then you want to know - err.= .
> decades before the films came out. I'm pretty much a cannon fan = - but
> I don't mind if other people aren't (although I do like to s= ee some
> reasonable reason why characters act as they do, and yeah.= . sorry -
> Denethor as portayed in the film annoys me!).
> > Re-reading 'The Silmarillion', I got this phrase stuck in my he= ad,
> and wanted to write - seemed like I was nuts. And then I found= that
> there were actually other people who did the same. Well, if = I'm nuts,
> at least I have company! Most of the offered company see= ms a little
> erm... unhelpful(?), but this group writes some a= wesome stuff, and
> looks like a place that could be home.
> <= BR>> Do you have a place for a crazy engineer, who is better at smithing=
> then writing? If you want someone to talk to about Noldor weapons= or
> jewel-making, I'll sure help. In exchange, I need someone to r= ead my
> first, poor attempts at crafting words.
>
> C= an someone tell me how I get a beta reader?
>
> Errr.. help?>
> Moreth
>

Woo hoo! Welcome, Moreth! I'm thrille= d to see another
techno-Tolkienist here! Although I'm not an engineer, I= 'm a
biochemist so we're distantly related. And yes, I would *love* totalk to you about metallurgy and such. Heck, where were you when I
was= trying to wrap my head around the concept of a eutectic point? ;^)

= I've only just leaped into this milieu myself about a year ago.
Althoug= h I'm far more experienced with scientific writing and also
contribute t= o a more-or-less science oriented blog, creative writing
is something I = haven't engaged in for some time until recently so I'm
still feeling my = way around myself. That said, I'm certainly willing
to give beta'ing a s= hot. I can at least provide a "Yeah, this
entertains me!" feedback. :^)<= BR>
My e-mail is docbushwellATgmailDOTcom. Please feel free to drop= me a
line or several.

pandemonium


=

Messenger on the move. Text MSN to 63463 no= w! --_28ef57ff-bdb0-4c45-b150-355fc2af4ac9_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1288 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74000 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2008 00:19:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2008 00:19:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n48d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.174) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2008 00:19:37 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n48.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2008 00:19:37 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2008 00:19:37 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2008 00:19:37 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 00:19:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "alassante7" Subject: Re: Intro (please excuse me) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=H38zEKKTv04WcpO-QPAvMtw8YitwpM-WIeXOleTU9QMhNVO0fQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 *waves* Hi Moreth! The more the merrier I say. Crazy Feanorian lover here. = --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wr= ote: > > Apologies for interrupting your conversation ;) > > It feels a li= itle strange to join what is clearly a close knit group > of people with n= o introduction. So here it is - basics first, and > reasons later - please= ignore at the point you find it boring! > > The most important bit is tha= t I am not (and never had any intention > to be) a writer/author or any si= milar being. I'm an engineer - I can > do maths, I can organise schedules,= but I never pretended to write > fiction. So I feel a bit lost now, and I= 'm hoping you guys can give > some pointers :-) > > I've been a Tolkien a= ddict longer then you want to know - err.. > decades before the films came= out. I'm pretty much a cannon fan - but > I don't mind if other people ar= en't (although I do like to see some > reasonable reason why characters ac= t as they do, and yeah.. sorry - > Denethor as portayed in the film annoys= me!). > > Re-reading 'The Silmarillion', I got this phrase stuck in my he= ad, > and wanted to write - seemed like I was nuts. And then I found that = > there were actually other people who did the same. Well, if I'm nuts, >= at least I have company! Most of the offered company seems a little > erm= ... unhelpful(?), but this group writes some awesome stuff, and > looks li= ke a place that could be home. > > Do you have a place for a crazy enginee= r, who is better at smithing > then writing? If you want someone to talk t= o about Noldor weapons or > jewel-making, I'll sure help. In exchange, I n= eed someone to read my > first, poor attempts at crafting words. > > Can= someone tell me how I get a beta reader? > > Errr.. help? > > Moreth > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1289 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34168 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2008 00:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2008 00:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2008 00:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cb8.24b652cf (39330) for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:22:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:20:08 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1201479608" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Intro (please excuse me) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ZLZppoFxpXBNBbhqOGvJo7gkWSy6aegERdJZaRKkVtu0JaiCg4wQ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1201479608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/27/2008 5:43:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, xjay2@hotmail.com writes: Oshun - Thanks Oshun. I pretty much blame your writing for landing me here, but I have a *long* way to go before I can hold a candle to that! Thank you for your stories and pointing where to go. Thank you. I am blushing. If it is any encouragement, I only wrote my first Silmarillion fic a little more than a year ago, so I still consider myself quite junior around here (long-toothed, but still junior to this milieu). **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------------------------1201479608 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 1/27/2008 5:43:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, xjay2@hotmail.com writ= es:
Oshun - Thanks Oshun. I pretty much= blame your writing for landing me
here, but I have a *long* way to = go before I can hold a candle to that!
Thank you for your stories an= d pointing where to go.
Tha= nk you. I am blushing. If it is any encouragement, I only wrote my first S= ilmarillion fic a little more than a year ago, so I still consider myself q= uite junior around here (long-toothed, but still junior to this milieu).<= /DIV>


Start the year off right= . Easy ways to stay in shape in the = new year.
-------------------------------1201479608-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1290 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68035 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2008 15:07:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2008 15:07:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.229) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2008 15:07:14 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c57so1176899wra.4 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:07:13 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.171.6 with SMTP id t6mr3321719wfe.126.1201619232727; Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:07:12 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.221.9 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:07:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:07:12 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12857_3361406.1201619232690" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=c9yIsxC-XUqmEj-A8rHN8imatXqIvU8y1gICwfjlZ5Do9xeZ5gua X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_12857_3361406.1201619232690-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1291 Return-Path: X-Sender: hrymfaxe@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29060 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2008 16:49:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2008 16:49:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n28b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.247) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2008 16:49:56 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n28.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2008 16:49:56 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2008 16:49:56 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2008 16:49:56 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:49:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "hrymfaxe" Subject: Re: Back to Middle-earth Month X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=311315064; y=HUjLlSXuMYbALadJmlVnXKHuFlbxrgKg5oVwudPkO2X5qSU X-Yahoo-Profile: hrymfaxe Squeeeeeeee *runs off to draw!* From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1292 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47555 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2008 17:09:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2008 17:09:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.128) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2008 17:09:38 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2008 17:09:38 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2008 17:09:38 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2008 17:09:38 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:09:37 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: There and Back Again: Format Change! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=UDTis0nP6rXE0xsZZA-wkKXI97Xqr34cVQEIERe_cIoK1CHiSA X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic As of today, the online writer's workshop "There and Back Again" is open fo= r all! That means: Everyone can participate. Yes. EVERYONE. No matter i= f you write only original stories or only fanfiction or both, no matter if = you write LOTR, Star Wars, Dr. Who or HP fanfic, no matter if you write gen= or slash, no matter if you're 16 or 61, if you're looking for * writ= ing exercises, * writing prompts, * constructive criticism and = * discussions about writing, you'll find all that here at "There and Bac= k Again". To get started with the new format, we'd like to invite all old = and new members to have a look at our old exercises in February. Details c= an be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/120703.html= Yours Aranel Took and JunoMagic *** "There and Back Again (and how to g= et there in the first place)" - an online writers' workshop for fanfic & o-= fic in LJ style: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dthere_n_bac= k From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1293 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62179 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 16:27:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2008 16:27:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.176) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2008 16:27:17 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so3230814wah.25 for ; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:27:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.67.2 with SMTP id p2mr5248719waa.1.1201969637618; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:27:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 08:27:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:27:17 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1219_25305756.1201969637613" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Help Please with Testing Site? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=6L8_UB6VnSNdSZdc89voIXR6VHj28TNkFr66fR4WQbWvlRsT5pmR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_1219_25305756.1201969637613-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1294 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6207 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 18:19:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2008 18:19:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2008 18:19:38 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c54.26f136be (29678) for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 13:19:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 13:19:17 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1201976357" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=q21ihUUqVppXCswesfBCIow0LiufBukxSiCLDzECNntzwiJTcV95 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1201976357 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was on the site earlier today (9:30 a.m.) and went again just now. No problems whatsoever. Oshun **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) -------------------------------1201976357 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I was on the site= earlier today (9:30 a.m.) and went again just now. No problems whatsoever= .
 
Oshun



-------------------------------1201976357-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1295 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23812 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 21:18:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2008 21:18:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2008 21:18:38 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k34so1342045wah.10 for ; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:18:38 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.103.1 with SMTP id a1mr5505237wac.59.1201987117930; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:18:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 13:18:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 16:18:37 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Cc: moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2048_15534071.1201987117920" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=j4IV8MVPoOUFQAjCowsM6z8y9uqLVQt_Pm4mMLYTkKWj_NS_nKnY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_2048_15534071.1201987117920-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1296 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9636 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 21:30:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2008 21:30:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2008 21:30:47 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cc3.245b6f56 (37045) for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 16:30:42 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from webmail-dd17 (webmail-dd17.webmail.aol.com [205.188.104.17]) by cia-db03.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB033-90b547a4e101331; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:30:41 -0500 References: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:30:41 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA33F9FF25E4F2_948_9748_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 34032-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com (205.188.104.17) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:30:41 -0500 Message-Id: <8CA33F9FF25E4F2-948-4BA9@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=9K6xwIgq_IJG-oNpLXateN_NwT2ARRmEjo5A7KqPONsBduxfYuwW X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA33F9FF25E4F2_948_9748_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Oh, two things: I think I figured out the mystery behind posting a mini of an entire page into a review. Delete review because of typos; try to copy and inadvertently get entire page; edit the typo and re-paste entire page into review. (At least I think that is what I did?? After I thought about it a couple of weeks.) Glad you enjoyed the chapter. Looking forward to the comments. Although I couldn't have done them this week anyway. I have tomorrow and Monday free, so with any luck will finish Laleth. Here is the most shallow thing I have ever heard. Tried to explain to my sister why my life has been so screwed up for the past ten days and heard myself saying: "It's been awful. Gabriel's mother died and it's Fashion Week in New York this week." Seriously, Laura works in the fashion industry and had only a couple of days off last week because it is her main event of the year (and a huge portion of her annual income). Meanwhile, Gabriel was still really in shock and his entire family in Ecuador for the funeral, so I was the only fallback for babysitting and support. Gabriel's getting better and think today (babysitting Baby Fingon at the moment) is that last day of Fashion Week, -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Cc: moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 4:18 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? Hi, Oshun, Thanks! I think this problem is confined to just this user; everyone seems to be having no problems, including other newbies. Btw, I wanted to tell you (but have been insanely busy): do you remember that weird thing that happened with one of your review replies having a miniature version of the site pasted in it? It happened again to someone else! I seem to recall, at the time, conversation along the lines of "It would happen to me." Just wanted to let you know that it's definitely not just you! ;) Take care and ttys, Dawn PS--Finished the last chapter too and really enjoyed it! I should have comments to you soon. On Feb 2, 2008 1:19 PM, wrote: I was on the site earlier today (9:30 a.m.) and went again just now. No problems whatsoever. ? Oshun I was on the site earlier today (9:30 a.m.) and went again just now. No problems whatsoever. ? Oshun Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ----------MB_8CA33F9FF25E4F2_948_9748_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Oh, two things: I think I figured out the mystery behind posting a mini of an entire page into a review. Delete review because of typos; try to copy and inadvertently get entire page; edit the typo and re-paste entire page into review. (At least I think that is what I did?? After I thought about it a couple of weeks.)
 
Glad you enjoyed the chapter. Looking forward to the comments. Although I couldn't have done them this week anyway.
 
I have tomorrow and Monday free, so with any luck will finish Laleth. Here is the most shallow thing I have ever heard. Tried to explain to my sister why my life has been so screwed up for the past ten days and heard myself saying: "It's been awful. Gabriel's mother died and it's Fashion Week in New York this week." Seriously, Laura works in the fashion industry and had only a couple of days off last week because it is her main event of the year (and a huge portion of her annual income). Meanwhile, Gabriel was still really in shock and his entire family in Ecuador for the funeral, so I was the only fallback for babysitting and support.

Gabriel's getting better and think today (babysitting Baby Fingon at the moment) is that last day of Fashion Week,


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Cc: moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org
Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 4:18 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site?

Hi, Oshun,

Thanks! I think this problem is confined to just this user; everyone seems to be having no problems, including other newbies.

Btw, I wanted to tell you (but have been insanely busy): do you remember that weird thing that happened with one of your review replies having a miniature version of the site pasted in it? It happened again to someone else! I seem to recall, at the time, conversation along the lines of "It would happen to me." Just wanted to let you know that it's definitely not just you! ;)

Take care and ttys,

Dawn

PS--Finished the last chapter too and really enjoyed it! I should have comments to you soon.

On Feb 2, 2008 1:19 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
I was on the site earlier today (9:30 a.m.) and went again just now. No problems whatsoever.
 
Oshun






--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
----------MB_8CA33F9FF25E4F2_948_9748_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1297 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8759 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 21:34:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2008 21:34:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2008 21:34:02 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c8b.22cbd230 (37055) for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 16:33:53 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from webmail-dd17 (webmail-dd17.webmail.aol.com [205.188.104.17]) by cia-db04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB041-90bf47a4e1c06; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:33:52 -0500 References: <8CA33F9FF25E4F2-948-4BA9@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:33:52 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: <8CA33F9FF25E4F2-948-4BA9@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA33FA7074A426_948_978E_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 34032-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com (205.188.104.17) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:33:52 -0500 Message-Id: <8CA33FA7074A426-948-4BCC@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=-zMlj-EfpnKRgy6hWYXsfmZ-uOIo95_6RULeaGub-Ppz6usMhnqV X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA33FA7074A426_948_978E_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nevermind me. Accidentally posted to the entire group and meant Haleth, not Laleth or whatever it was I typed. (Did I mention I was tired?) -----Original Message----- From: heartofoshun@aol.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 4:30 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? Oh, two things: I think I figured out the mystery behind posting a mini of an entire page into a review. Delete review because of typos; try to copy and inadvertently get entire page; edit the typo and re-paste entire page into review. (At least I think that is what I did?? After I thought about it a couple of weeks.) ? Glad you enjoyed the chapter. Looking forward to the comments. Although I couldn't have done them this week anyway. ? I have tomorrow and Monday free, so with any luck will finish Laleth. Here is the most shallow thing I have ever heard. Tried to explain to my sister why my life has been so screwed up for the past ten days and heard myself saying: "It's been awful. Gabriel's mother died and it's Fashion Week in New York this week." Seriously, Laura works in the fashion industry and had only a couple of days off last week because it is her main event of the year (and a huge portion of her annual income). Meanwhile, Gabriel was still really in shock and his entire family in Ecuador for the funeral, so I was the only fallback for babysitting and support. Gabriel's getting better and think today (babysitting Baby Fingon at the moment) is that last day of Fashion Week, -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Cc: moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 4:18 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? Hi, Oshun, Thanks! I think this problem is confined to just this user; everyone seems to be having no problems, including other newbies. Btw, I wanted to tell you (but have been insanely busy): do you remember that weird thing that happened with one of your review replies having a miniature version of the site pasted in it? It happened again to someone else! I seem to recall, at the time, conversation along the lines of "It would happen to me." Just wanted to let you know that it's definitely not just you! ;) Take care and ttys, Dawn PS--Finished the last chapter too and really enjoyed it! I should have comments to you soon. On Feb 2, 2008 1:19 PM, wrote: I was on the site earlier today (9:30 a.m.) and went again just now. No problems whatsoever. ? Oshun Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ----------MB_8CA33FA7074A426_948_978E_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Nevermind me. Accidentally posted to the entire group and meant Haleth, not Laleth or whatever it was I typed. (Did I mention I was tired?)


-----Original Message-----
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site?

Oh, two things: I think I figured out the mystery behind posting a mini of an entire page into a review. Delete review because of typos; try to copy and inadvertently get entire page; edit the typo and re-paste entire page into review. (At least I think that is what I did?? After I thought about it a couple of weeks.)
 
Glad you enjoyed the chapter. Looking forward to the comments. Although I couldn't have done them this week anyway.
 
I have tomorrow and Monday free, so with any luck will finish Laleth. Here is the most shallow thing I have ever heard. Tried to explain to my sister why my life has been so screwed up for the past ten days and heard myself saying: "It's been awful. Gabriel's mother died and it's Fashion Week in New York this week." Seriously, Laura works in the fashion industry and had only a couple of days off last week because it is her main event of the year (and a huge portion of her annual income). Meanwhile, Gabriel was still really in shock and his entire family in Ecuador for the funeral, so I was the only fallback for babysitting and support.

Gabriel's getting better and think today (babysitting Baby Fingon at the moment) is that last day of Fashion Week,


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund gmail.com>
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Cc: moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org
Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 4:18 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site?

Hi, Oshun,

Thanks! I think this problem is confined to just this user; everyone seems to be having no problems, including other newbies.

Btw, I wanted to tell you (but have been insanely busy): do you remember that weird thing that happened with one of your review replies having a miniature version of the site pasted in it? It happened again to someone else! I seem to recall, at the time, conversation along the lines of "It would happen to me." Just wanted to let you know that it's definitely not just you! ;)

Take care and ttys,

Dawn

PS--Finished the last chapter too and really enjoyed it! I should have comments to you soon.

On Feb 2, 2008 1:19 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
I was on the site earlier today (9:30 a.m.) and went again just now. No problems whatsoever.
 
Oshun






--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
----------MB_8CA33FA7074A426_948_978E_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1298 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26361 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 21:40:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2008 21:40:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2008 21:40:55 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F197B3E806A for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:40:54 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:40:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:40:57 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1654996467.20080202224057@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: <8CA33FA7074A426-948-4BCC@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA33F9FF25E4F2-948-4BA9@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> <8CA33FA7074A426-948-4BCC@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=QthBElU65-18l46iyAMEN_54yB8nX-iyFIqik_DPefe6Y_KhtKc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai heartofoshun, hac> Nevermind me. Accidentally posted to the entire group You both did it ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1299 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44027 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 21:44:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2008 21:44:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2008 21:44:06 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cb6.22c833ab (37167) for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 16:43:57 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from webmail-dd17 (webmail-dd17.webmail.aol.com [205.188.104.17]) by cia-ma04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA046-912f47a4e41d281; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:43:57 -0500 References: <8CA33F9FF25E4F2-948-4BA9@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> <8CA33FA7074A426-948-4BCC@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> <1654996467.20080202224057@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:43:57 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: <1654996467.20080202224057@tlen.pl> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA33FBD9177262_948_9850_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 34032-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com (205.188.104.17) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:43:57 -0500 Message-Id: <8CA33FBD9177262-948-4C2C@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=J90UhsLzXc0GSp3911qJqJUb65_A0l7WuvwjBnwjMFLdhNkATGs4 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA33FBD9177262_948_9850_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi! Sirielle. Haven't talk to you for a while! LOL -----Original Message----- From: Sirielle To: heartofoshun@aol.com Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 4:40 pm Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? Ai heartofoshun, hac> Nevermind me. Accidentally posted to the entire group You both did it ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ----------MB_8CA33FBD9177262_948_9850_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi! Sirielle. Haven't talk to you for a while! LOL


-----Original Message-----
From: Sirielle
To: heartofoshun@aol.com
Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 4:40 pm
Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site?

Ai heartofoshun,

hac> Nevermind me. Accidentally posted to the entire group

You both did it ;)

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/

More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
----------MB_8CA33FBD9177262_948_9850_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1300 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36560 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 21:57:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2008 21:57:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2008 21:57:33 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m38so1554925waf.5 for ; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:57:33 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.14.1 with SMTP id 1mr5552182wan.9.1201989452754; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:57:32 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 13:57:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 16:57:32 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA33FBD9177262-948-4C2C@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2123_31733915.1201989452706" References: <8CA33F9FF25E4F2-948-4BA9@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> <8CA33FA7074A426-948-4BCC@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> <1654996467.20080202224057@tlen.pl> <8CA33FBD9177262-948-4C2C@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wz7fQr_xUS7gA1CiuVIFRated3vkHGMTg2rfkevrZVLWKHKR-Lem X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_2123_31733915.1201989452706-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1301 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46853 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 22:13:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2008 22:13:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.100) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2008 22:13:30 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 91531 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Feb 2008 22:13:29 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Rseif2MVM1kSyeFRCQzyoDqF4aVKUILEJqYzeJM5zOLQ_tioJoI5oquxULMhu2t6qsG58kqyRmvd4hldv2mwgqcETJKIxKuljvcPXjWZ.ghBBiBLF6s.Jg-- X-Received: from [98.16.42.205] by web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 14:13:29 PST Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 14:13:29 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1884695697-1201990409=:91502" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <850740.91502.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=O6R4nvxv0FsuxPUyX9S5eEJDjEh4zFrHPWX6-qEIp2jYv85-cw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1884695697-1201990409=:91502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If you're gonna do that girls - you need to reveal something juicy and scandalous!!! Dawn Felagund wrote: > You both did it ;) Ack! It's been one of those weeks ... Please feel free to ignore Oshun's and my back-and-forth natterings. ;) Dawn F. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1884695697-1201990409=:91502 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If you're gonna do that girls - you need to reveal something juicy and scandalous!!!

Dawn Felagund wrote:
> You both did it ;)

Ack! It's been one of those weeks ...

Please feel free to ignore Oshun's and my back-and-forth natterings. ;)

Dawn F.



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1884695697-1201990409=:91502-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1302 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36185 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2008 22:17:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2008 22:17:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2008 22:17:37 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cb9.258297bf (34923) for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 17:17:32 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from webmail-dd17 (webmail-dd17.webmail.aol.com [205.188.104.17]) by cia-da03.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA038-886b47a4ebfcea; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:17:32 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:17:32 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: <850740.91502.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA34008A3FC28E_948_9A4E_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 34032-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com (205.188.104.17) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:17:32 -0500 Message-Id: <8CA34008A3FC28E-948-4D2E@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ZvcKtUf1fSr-dIzAxtYFaqQlrWpuVbejAKYq4AGk9soqKnEJL6Nz X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA34008A3FC28E_948_9A4E_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you're gonna do that girls - you need to reveal something juicy and scandalous!!! Maybe next time. We do both tend to do several things simultaneously which almost insures another such slip. -----Original Message----- From: Alassante7 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 5:13 pm Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site? If you're gonna do that girls - you need to reveal something juicy and scandalous!!! Dawn Felagund wrote: > You both did it ;) Ack! It's been one of those weeks ... Please feel free to ignore Oshun's and my back-and-forth natterings. ;) Dawn F. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ----------MB_8CA34008A3FC28E_948_9A4E_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
If you're gonna do that girls - you need to reveal something juicy and scandalous!!!

Maybe next time. We do both tend to do several things simultaneously which almost insures another such slip.


-----Original Message-----
From: Alassante7
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 5:13 pm
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help Please with Testing Site?

If you're gonna do that girls - you need to reveal something juicy and scandalous!!!

Dawn Felagund gmail.com> wrote:
> You both did it ;)

Ack! It's been one of those weeks ...

Please feel free to ignore Oshun's and my back-and-forth natterings. ;)

Dawn F.



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
----------MB_8CA34008A3FC28E_948_9A4E_webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1303 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27229 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2008 02:27:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2008 02:27:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2008 02:27:16 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j4so2624218wah.1 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:27:16 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.121.1 with SMTP id t1mr841574wac.55.1202783236052; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:27:16 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:27:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:27:16 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5826_24132012.1202783236049" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Tengwar Proofreader Needed? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=reKHVBVe458G_qvDqqotofrA9jEANJS6UdwoM_F4gf-Y3UR3Rsyg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_5826_24132012.1202783236049-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1304 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56885 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2008 16:07:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2008 16:07:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.180) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 16:07:39 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m33so4258483wag.8 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:07:38 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.124.1 with SMTP id w1mr4315246wac.131.1203523658737; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:07:38 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:07:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:07:38 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_29538_7828589.1203523658733" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=6CZTY6FqGkISw6_JB51KMBmzTZwfBfukv0jpG5svxZKtN_v7DQM4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_29538_7828589.1203523658733-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1305 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99674 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2008 18:13:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2008 18:13:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.176) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2008 18:13:21 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id l35so139114waf.12 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:13:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.173.15 with SMTP id v15mr6960389wae.63.1203617601325; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:13:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:13:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:13:21 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5633_25224661.1203617601322" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: B2MeM--Correct Link! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=p2loTMZY0w3VL9-Yx4EEmhOJrbdAXoH_U0Km8T2qnE8nm01KZYUy X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_5633_25224661.1203617601322-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1306 Return-Path: X-Sender: deand12000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7925 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2008 02:15:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2008 02:15:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56014.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (216.252.110.193) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2008 02:15:46 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 22143 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2008 02:15:45 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: mXcZrkMVM1lAG7byrcyyfzN6It7ClDZvVJ8TQUfy9Wdjz1k9XsXmQ9Sd_IpwQPO8oqv4njT_Jl4qYRBSf.lwcEa5thPArvd_VqYb7QCNNw44cUtZ0_Hd3KnfJZV6Ytb._vkhKBN_00wR7LU- X-Received: from [98.73.30.43] by web56014.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:15:45 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/902.32 YahooMailWebService/0.7.162 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:15:45 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-618383866-1203646545=:20787" Message-ID: <844406.20787.qm@web56014.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dean Rowley Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM--Correct Link! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=114134930; y=49PZq_2OxItf1QEzWttNXRrFyZfg72mUbthU2pl6SY3-B0lvuw X-Yahoo-Profile: deand12000 --0-618383866-1203646545=:20787 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Your Real Job is the one you take because it gives you time to do your Real Work. Your Day Job is the one you take because no one thinks your Real Work is important. Your Real Work is what makes you change Jobs because you need more time to do it. Ranger1 ----- Original Message ---- From: Dawn Felagund To: SWG Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:13:21 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM--Correct Link! Hi, all, It has come to my attention that I incorrectly typed the link to the B2MeM guidelines in yesterday's post. This one should work: http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/b2mem2008. php Thanks, Ellie, for letting me know! :) (That's what one gets for doing SWG work at her "real job," eh? ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --0-618383866-1203646545=:20787 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Your Real Job is the one you take because it gives you time to do your Real Work.
Your Day Job is the one you take because no one thinks your Real Work is important.
Your Real Work is what makes you change Jobs because you need more time to do it.
 
Ranger1  

----- Original Message ----
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SWG
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:13:21 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM--Correct Link!

Hi, all,
 
It has come to my attention that I incorrectly typed the link to the B2MeM guidelines in yesterday's post. This one should work:
 
 
Thanks, Ellie, for letting me know! :)
 
(That's what one gets for doing SWG work at her "real job," eh? ;)
 
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org


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Search. --0-618383866-1203646545=:20787-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1307 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81153 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2008 02:23:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2008 02:23:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.236) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2008 02:23:51 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 71so445973wri.5 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:23:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.197.1 with SMTP id u1mr8366341waf.61.1203647027720; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:23:47 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:23:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:23:47 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <844406.20787.qm@web56014.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6305_15804466.1203647027713" References: <844406.20787.qm@web56014.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM--Correct Link! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0UaX4Xx5bJ5oCUpWyxxJquKnLlKDf1dwiDZ7amivf1ekESf3iZGI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_6305_15804466.1203647027713-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1309 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31264 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2008 15:45:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2008 15:45:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.232) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2008 15:45:18 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c46so1677914wra.14 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 07:45:18 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.191.1 with SMTP id o1mr662311waf.66.1203781516435; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 07:45:16 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 07:45:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:45:16 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5410_18808984.1203781516427" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: A Quick Clarification on B2MeM Narratives ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=3B6neHrbZTTO7FLn3g-kHa5lhWBpZYHfOD4ZD_bI5tdfRAG2XSij X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_5410_18808984.1203781516427-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1310 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28186 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2008 15:46:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2008 15:46:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n31a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.208) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2008 15:46:47 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n31.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2008 15:46:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2008 15:46:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2008 15:46:47 -0000 Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 15:46:45 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Get Paid to Blog About the Things You Love! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=VVQWGmLNCqD93_TdCW3Il153R_7ol9z3pcSPUDZwP8UR-rk9ElV5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund This is SPAM. It will be deleted and the poster warned. Dawn Felagund ---= In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, wrot= e: > > Join over 50,000 other bloggers who have started a new blogging revo= lution! > PayPerPost is an incredible new self-service marketplace that al= lows you to get paid to blog about the products, services and websites you = love. > You can easily earn $500 per month or more with your current blog!= > > Join FREE Now >>> http://easylnk.com/?5438 > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1311 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42806 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2008 15:15:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2008 15:15:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO gv-out-0910.google.com) (216.239.58.188) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2008 15:15:01 -0000 X-Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id y18so829925gvf.7 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:14:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.222.21 with SMTP id u21mr3834333wfg.41.1204038899571; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:14:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.221.9 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:14:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:14:59 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12389_18514379.1204038899567" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: "Late" B2MeM Submissions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uL2RLik1jmLRYUp5w1T2w2ZcIWnC5VlOIPGoiI1sk-h3Piycv4cm X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_12389_18514379.1204038899567-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1312 Return-Path: X-Sender: rockman_egypt20000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47287 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2008 18:56:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2008 18:56:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ds1.masry-online.net) (84.36.15.103) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2008 18:56:29 -0000 X-Received: from mail pickup service by ds1.masry-online.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:55:38 +0200 Thread-Topic: it is Soooooooo Funy ! thread-index: Ach5cktHbx9J9VpPSRixGgrPnwdFhw== To: Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:55:20 +0200 Message-ID: <0D91CFA3EB9E470884C39851445DFC45@masryonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Windows 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.3959 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2008 18:55:38.0453 (UTC) FILETIME=[57B15050:01C87972] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Subject: it is Soooooooo Funy ! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=337575492; y=2cfMdu6nxDxJm-Pvc-KuGmBo1Ay7o1w63X2UvlIdYPBP_kqPmfoio0c9W6tD X-Yahoo-Profile: rockman_egypt20000 Really it is Soooooooo Funy ! Click Here >>> http://easylnk.com/?5500 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1313 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15367 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2008 19:17:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2008 19:17:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2008 19:17:03 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2008 19:17:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2008 19:17:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2008 19:17:03 -0000 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:17:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0D91CFA3EB9E470884C39851445DFC45@masryonline.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: it is Soooooooo Funy ! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=arThSu-MEmcvuWhd3vmgTZfbBIrTEuUpn7KNmW77ZnCkJxZOkuy7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund This is the second SPAM from this person in about a week. S/he was warned = after the first message. This person has now been removed and banned. My = apologies to everyone for the continued disturbances. Dawn Felagund From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1314 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39996 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 17:15:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Feb 2008 17:15:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n48a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 17:15:55 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n48.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Feb 2008 17:15:55 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Feb 2008 17:15:55 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Feb 2008 17:15:55 -0000 Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:15:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: (Slightly) OT: March is our "Back-to-Writing-Month" (B2WM) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=1Sy18H4sdWFO2XXGwSTnXpx6ZSVR6jmlsHUhnG4PyyzgjSQw5A X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic "There and Back Again (and how to get there in the first place)" is an an o= nline writers' workshop for fan fiction and original fiction over on LiveJo= urnal: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dthere_n_back For ou= r "Back-to-Writing-Month" (B2WM) in March we'll be posting prompts every da= y to inspire your Muses. If you haven't written anything in a while, this i= s an opportunity to get those Muses working again! So what are the prompts= and how do you use them? Every day for the month of March, we'll post two= prompts =96 one is specific to a particular fandom (including LOTR -AND- S= ilm, of course!), the other is general. The prompt is the end of the story= =96 the very last line(s), exactly as written. Your task is to fill in the= story leading up to that ending. Interested? Curious? Then take a look at= "There and Back Again"! Details about our B2WM may be found here: http:/= /community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/121547.html The best way to partic= ipate is - of course - to join our workshop and to post your takes on the d= aily prompts at our community. But naturally we won't stop anyone who simpl= y picks up a prompt now and again to get her (or his) creative juices flowi= ng again! Prompts will be posted starting tomorrow, March 1. Have fun and= happy writing! JunoMagic and Aranel Took *** "There and Back Again (and= how to get there in the first place)" - an online writers' workshop for fa= nfic & o-fic in LJ style: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dth= ere_n_back From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1315 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72149 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 17:28:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Feb 2008 17:28:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 17:28:28 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 8284 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Feb 2008 17:28:18 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: I6gfl8wVM1lsTcHV_yyXeJie5VQmwwauc_fXHlSryj.lA1xBdifKo8uvzE3PdBdeX4muoh6puGg87UVwEUUtljL32ZnYL5zgD_.dLoz87o.InD87ygwhn8_GmNt4OZr4Q6yBYnwYiBYezno- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:28:18 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/902.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.162 Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:28:18 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1960842408-1204306098=:6413" Message-ID: <570266.6413.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] (Slightly) OT: March is our "Back-to-Writing-Month" (B2WM) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=cvOGpy4TLG9-cEtvEXU5OlR1z7KlyYQDjfWwvKQM0uBY3tp_oA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1960842408-1204306098=:6413 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you do something to inspire my muse and make them stop running away? S= uper glue for muses? lol ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many= names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is = like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? ----- Original Messa= ge ---- From: JunoMagic To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@= yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:15:55 PM Subject: [Silma= rillionWritersGuild] (Slightly) OT: March is our "Back-to-Writing-Month" (B= 2WM) "There and Back Again (and how to get there in the first place)" is a= n an online writers' workshop for fan fiction and original fiction over on = LiveJournal: http://www.livejour nal.com/userinfo .bml?user=3D there_n_bac= k For our "Back-to-Writing- Month" (B2WM) in March we'll be posting prompt= s every day to inspire your Muses. If you haven't written anything in a whi= le, this is an opportunity to get those Muses working again! So what are t= he prompts and how do you use them? Every day for the month of March, we'l= l post two prompts =96 one is specific to a particular fandom (including LO= TR -AND- Silm, of course!), the other is general. The prompt is the end of= the story =96 the very last line(s), exactly as written. Your task is to f= ill in the story leading up to that ending. Interested? Curious? Then take= a look at "There and Back Again"! Details about our B2WM may be found her= e: http://community. livejournal. com/there_ n_back/121547. html The best= way to participate is - of course - to join our workshop and to post your = takes on the daily prompts at our community. But naturally we won't stop an= yone who simply picks up a prompt now and again to get her (or his) creativ= e juices flowing again! Prompts will be posted starting tomorrow, March 1.= Have fun and happy writing! JunoMagic and Aranel Took *** "There and B= ack Again (and how to get there in the first place)" - an online writers' w= orkshop for fanfic & o-fic in LJ style: http://www.livejour nal.com/userinf= o .bml?user=3D there_n_back ___________________________________= _________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make= Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --0-1960842408-1204306098=:6413 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can  you do something to inspire my muse = and make them stop running away? Super glue for muses? lol
 
=
<= DIV align=3Dcenter>
= ~~**~~
Ali K= at/Alassante/Kathye
A Ka= t with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the= speed of dark?


----- Original Message ----
From: JunoMagic =
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February = 29, 2008 12:15:55 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] (Slightly) OT: = March is our "Back-to-Writing-Month" (B2WM)

"There and Back Again (and how to get there in the first place)" is
an = an online writers' workshop for fan fiction and original fiction
over on= LiveJournal:

http://www.livejour nal.co= m/userinfo .bml?user=3D there_n_back

For our "Back-to-Writing- M= onth" (B2WM) in March we'll be posting
prompts every day to inspire your= Muses. If you haven't written
anything in a while, this is an opportuni= ty to get those Muses working
again!

So what are the prompts and = how do you use them?

Every day for the month of March, we'll post tw= o prompts =96 one is
specific to a particular fandom (including LOTR -AN= D- Silm, of
course!), the
other is general.

The prompt is the = end of the story =96 the very last line(s), exactly as
written. Your tas= k is to fill in the story leading up to that ending.

Interested? Cu= rious? Then take a look at "There and Back Again"!

Details about our= B2WM may be found here:

http://community.= livejournal. com/there_ n_back/121547. html

The best way to par= ticipate is - of course - to join our workshop and
to post your takes on= the daily prompts at our community. But
naturally we won't stop anyone = who simply picks up a prompt now and
again to get her (or his) creative = juices flowing again!

Prompts will be posted starting tomorrow, Marc= h 1.

Have fun and happy writing!

JunoMagic and Aranel Took
***

"There and Back Again (and how to get there in the first pl= ace)" -
an online writers' workshop for fanfic & o-fic in LJ style:<= BR>http://www.livejour nal.com/userinfo .bml?us= er=3D there_n_back



=
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1960842408-1204306098=:6413-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1316 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77763 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 17:31:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Feb 2008 17:31:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 17:31:57 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so9772005wah.24 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:31:57 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.58.1 with SMTP id l1mr11829896wak.110.1204306316434; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:31:56 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:31:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:31:56 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <570266.6413.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20012_15764449.1204306316427" References: <570266.6413.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] (Slightly) OT: March is our "Back-to-Writing-Month" (B2WM) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=bxLvpstdQIa-qHHOdzNnMTHeZ9k9pKZJ9heraPASNTpgf_AMEHBK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_20012_15764449.1204306316427-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1317 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 813 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 18:02:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Feb 2008 18:02:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.143) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 18:02:27 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n16.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Feb 2008 18:02:27 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Feb 2008 18:02:27 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Feb 2008 18:02:27 -0000 Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:02:27 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <570266.6413.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Re: (Slightly) OT: March is our "Back-to-Writing-Month" (B2WM) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=CyhTF20-z-fraBoJvGVGUYlhYrkWGzm0po9bf5FVL7UPdSGNwA X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > Can you do something to inspire my muse and make them stop ru= nning away? Super glue for muses? lol > Well, you can always try our B2= WM! There are definitely some ... sticky ... prompts among the lot. That m= uch I can guarantee. ;-) Cheers, Juno *** "There and Back Again (and h= ow to get there in the first place)" - an online writers' workshop for fanf= ic & o-fic in LJ style: http://www.livejour nal.com/userinfo .bml?user=3D t= here_n_back From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1318 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14207 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 19:37:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Feb 2008 19:37:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.125) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 19:37:55 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 30886 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Feb 2008 19:37:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: PpVtdkUVM1kBTgJuxMx4PJi.XFbP4V06xyeLZcVnftPq0CWljIGPAslZjbk.KzoOcQ-- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:37:54 PST Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:37:54 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <570266.6413.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1037977988-1204313874=:25606" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <652889.25606.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] (Slightly) OT: March is our "Back-to-Writing-Month" (B2WM) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=ESIdTmwi-r0Qtaig2SsJhC2FtBNGVEKlOSo3_584raZnQn4yGv0y7u8 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1037977988-1204313874=:25606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ha! When you're done with that super glue, pass it on to me! ;) Tarion Alassante7 wrote: Can you do something to inspire my muse and make them stop running away? Super glue for muses? lol ~T�rion --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1037977988-1204313874=:25606 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ha! When you're done with that super glue, pass it on to me! ;)

Tarion

Alassante7 wrote:
Can  you do something to inspire my muse and make them stop running away? Super glue for muses? lol



~T�rion

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1037977988-1204313874=:25606-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1319 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44409 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 23:30:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Feb 2008 23:30:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 23:30:37 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bde.2b35fd8b (42809) for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:30:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:30:24 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204327824" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: (no subject) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Pz1ZURdhYoBnfk0eakJ9JEbyQI1njxeMn1PBHTPTAsJ1zq5E2WA3 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204327824 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am completely confused about how houseless elves come about. If you already know tell me. If you don't I don't except anyone to do research for me that I am not in the mood to do for myself. I thought Eldar who die or are killed go to the Halls of Mandos. That those who refused did not necessarily, but I was not sure. I did not know either if the rebellious Noldor knew what their fate would be at death (at least up until the time of the War of Wrath) since they had left Aman voluntarily and against the wishes of the Valar. I am really not all that interested in stories about fading avari or houseless elves, but a good friend is writing a story which includes a case of a follower of the sons of Feanor becoming a houseless elf and they taking over other people's bodies. She wants my comments and I really don't know if the conception that a follower of the sons of Feanor could become a houseless elf controlled by Sauron was AU or canon. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204327824 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =

I am complete= ly confused about how houseless elves come about. If you already know tell= me. If you don't I don't except anyone to do research for me that I am no= t in the mood to do for myself.

I thought Eldar who die or are= killed go to the Halls of Mandos. That those who refused did not necessar= ily, but I was not sure. I did not know either if the rebellious Noldor kn= ew what their fate would be at death (at least up until the time of the Wa= r of Wrath) since they had left Aman voluntarily and against the wishes of= the Valar.

I am really not all that interested in stories about fad= ing avari or houseless elves, but a good friend is writing a story wh= ich includes a case of a follower of the sons of Feanor becoming= a houseless elf and they taking over other people's bodies. She want= s my comments and I really don't know if the conception that a follower of= the sons of Feanor could become a houseless elf controlled by Sauron was = AU or canon.




Delic= ious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204327824-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1320 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68182 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 23:34:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Feb 2008 23:34:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 23:34:07 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c94.27c1285b (42809) for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:33:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:33:57 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204328037" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Houseless elves (replacement of query sent without SUBJECT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=PVzBUAK2NqRnquE62r_AuFKBfzLX7RLBXMGAJDESe64qk8oXuift X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204328037 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am completely confused about how houseless elves come about. If you already know tell me. If you don't I don't except anyone to do research for me that I am not in the mood to do for myself. I thought Eldar who die or are killed go to the Halls of Mandos. That those who refused did not necessarily, but I was not sure. I did not know either if the rebellious Noldor knew what their fate would be at death (at least up until the time of the War of Wrath) since they had left Aman voluntarily and against the wishes of the Valar. I am really not all that interested in stories about fading avari or houseless elves, but a good friend is writing a story which includes a case of a follower of the sons of Feanor becoming a houseless elf and they taking over other people's bodies. She wants my comments and I really don't know if the conception that a follower of the sons of Feanor could become a houseless elf controlled by Sauron was AU or canon. Oshun **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204328037 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 

= I am completely confused about how houseless elves come about. If you alrea= dy know tell me. If you don't I don't except anyone to do research for me = that I am not in the mood to do for myself.

I thought Eldar w= ho die or are killed go to the Halls of Mandos. That those who refused did= not necessarily, but I was not sure. I did not know either if the rebelli= ous Noldor knew what their fate would be at death (at least up until the t= ime of the War of Wrath) since they had left Aman voluntarily and against = the wishes of the Valar.

I am really not all that interested in stor= ies about fading avari or houseless elves, but a good friend is writing&nb= sp;a story which includes a case of a follower of the sons of Fe= anor becoming a houseless elf and they taking over other people's bodies. = She wants my comments and I really don't know if the conception that = a follower of the sons of Feanor could become a houseless elf controlled b= y Sauron was AU or canon.

Oshun



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.<= /FONT>
-------------------------------1204328037-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1321 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45214 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 23:40:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Feb 2008 23:40:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 23:40:21 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCF715800F for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 00:40:20 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 00:40:19 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 00:40:20 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <584510258.20080301004020@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] (no subject) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=5-XG3aNYPFEtmAxazfvyONLG-gcCSfTe9oovu6moJ2Sv85WtbE4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> I am completely confused about how houseless elves come hac= > about. If you already know tell me. If you don't I don't except hac> any= one to do research for me that I am not in the mood to do for hac> myself.= >From memory - they stayed in mortal realms, their fear consumed their bod= ies, so they became housless spirits and some of them used to take over hum= an bodies. hac> I thought=A0Eldar who die or are killed go to the Halls o= f hac> Mandos. Of they answered the call of Mandos. If they refused they w= ould end up as housless spirits as well. I hope someone with better memory = will fix it. hac> I did not know either if the rebellious Noldor knew hac= > what their fate would be at death (at least up until the time of hac> th= e War of Wrath) since they had left Aman voluntarily and hac> against the = wishes of the Valar. Probably knew, as Miriel has already gone to Mandos a= nd brought a lot of discussions and gossips among Noldor and Eldar ;) I thi= nk that knowledge in Beleriand was coming from them and from Melian. hac>= She=A0wants my comments and I really don't know if the hac> conception th= at a follower of the sons of Feanor could become a hac> houseless elf cont= rolled by Sauron was AU or canon. If that follower was former captive of M= orgoth/Sauron? Hopefully others will know the answers :) Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1322 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74387 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 23:42:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Feb 2008 23:42:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO fg-out-1718.google.com) (72.14.220.158) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 23:42:57 -0000 X-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so3034789fga.8 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:42:56 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.86.60.15 with SMTP id i15mr11501094fga.36.1204328576181; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:42:56 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b36sm17966278ika.2.2008.02.29.15.42.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:42:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47C89882.5040300@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 00:42:58 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Houseless elves (replacement of query sent without SUBJECT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=5mk21_gA8RQjuh0UaIUVfk4ejFMBOr1mCXf7TfyqIJEAvR3SMDLANN4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: > > > I am completely confused about how houseless elves come about. If you already > know tell me. If you don't I don't except anyone to do research for me that > I am not in the mood to do for myself. > I thought Eldar who die or are killed go to the Halls of Mandos. That those > who refused did not necessarily, but I was not sure. I did not know either if > the rebellious Noldor knew what their fate would be at death (at least up > until the time of the War of Wrath) since they had left Aman voluntarily and > against the wishes of the Valar. All are called eum, home. Even the exiled ones. > I am really not all that interested in stories about fading avari or > houseless elves, but a good friend is writing a story which includes a case of a > follower of the sons of Feanor becoming a houseless elf and they taking over > other people's bodies. She wants my comments and I really don't know if the > conception that a follower of the sons of Feanor could become a houseless elf > controlled by Sauron was AU or canon. It's a possibility, the prof said something about persons not heeding to the call being unnatural, therefore their fea was tainted (in a nutshell). But its very late here and this is just the Rhapsy tm cliff notes version, so just crack open Morgoth's ring, go to laws and customs of the eldar and there you will find plenty of details about this (I believe there is more, somewhere scattered over HOME and the Silm). I have seen this written before, but I do read a lot of ff. No wait, come to think of it, I actually wrote this myself before. Heh :) The things you remember. I think Dawn has also done this before and the story the Choice of the spirits in this context comes utterly recommended. Rhapsody *poofs* From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1323 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77968 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 23:48:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Feb 2008 23:48:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 23:48:41 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c21.1a04165a (42809) for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:48:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:48:34 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204328914" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] (no subject) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=XgyMZY4ZcFWBtAH0-GRVYAhzUkXhmPhGU-9e7wJLfJhEtA7PwtOl X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204328914 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/29/2008 6:40:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: hac> I did not know either if the rebellious Noldor knew hac> what their fate would be at death (at least up until the time of hac> the War of Wrath) since they had left Aman voluntarily and hac> against the wishes of the Valar. I vewlieved they knew they would normnally go to the Halls of Mandos, but what happened once they had abandoned Aman? If there was a difference then. hac> She wants my comments and I really don't know if the hac> conception that a follower of the sons of Feanor could become a hac> houseless elf controlled by Sauron was AU or canon. If that follower was former captive of Morgoth/Sauron? No not a former captive of Morgoth/Sauron, just a rotten guy in her opinon for being one of the ones who abandoned Dior's sons to die. (I have trouble with these questions because, although I am an atheist, I was raised a hardcore Irish Catholic and I am still big on the concept of redemption in one form or another always being possible and light on writing anyone off as purely and simply evil.) Hopefully others will know the answers :) Thanks for responding. It is useful to read your remarks and narrow down my question. Sirielle **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204328914 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 2/29/2008 6:40:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes:
hac> I did not know either  if the r= ebellious Noldor knew
hac> what their fate would be at death (at l= east up  until the time of
hac> the War of Wrath) since they = had left Aman voluntarily and
hac> against the wishes of the Vala= r.
I vewlieved they knew they would normnally = go to the Halls of Mandos, but what happened once they had abandoned Aman?= If there was a difference then.
hac> = She wants my comments and I really don't  know if the
hac>= conception that a follower of the sons of Feanor could become a
hac= > houseless elf controlled by Sauron was AU or canon.

If that = follower was former captive of Morgoth/Sauron?
= No not a former captive of Morgoth/Sauron, just a rotten guy in her opinon = for being one of the ones who abandoned Dior's sons to die. (I have troubl= e with these questions because, although I am an atheist, I was raised a h= ardcore Irish Catholic and I am still big on the concept of redemption in = one form or another always being possible and light on writing anyone off = as purely and simply evil.)


Hope= fully others will know the answers :)
Thanks f= or responding. It is useful to read your remarks and narrow down my questi= on.

Sirielle
=
 



= Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204328914-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1324 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41832 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 23:52:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Feb 2008 23:52:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 23:52:40 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cc6.283279b3 (42809) for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:52:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:52:26 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204329146" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Houseless elves (replacement of query sent wit... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ISy3hLOezWxy4rjh9tg4kmCFUuZjIyxQWjJpGFVMk8OH5LeWQPTQ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204329146 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Rhaps. I was hoping for the Cliff Notes version. I have the other-persons-story syndrome on this one. I'd do the research for myself, but not just for an opinion on someone else's theme. I am overwhelmed this week also. I believe there is more, somewhere scattered over HOME and the Silm). I have seen this written before, but I do read a lot of ff. No wait, come to think of it, I actually wrote this myself before. Heh :) The things you remember. I think Dawn has also done this before and the story the Choice of the spirits in this context comes utterly recommended. I'll check that out. Thanks again, Rhapsody. Rhapsody *poofs* **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204329146 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Thanks, Rhaps. I = was hoping for the Cliff Notes version. I have the other-persons-story syn= drome on this one. I'd do the research for myself, but not just for an opi= nion on someone else's theme. I am overwhelmed this week also.
I
believe there is more, somewhere scattered o= ver HOME and the Silm). I
have seen this written before, but I do re= ad a lot of ff. No wait, come
to think of it, I actually wrote this = myself before. Heh :) The things
you remember. I think Dawn has also= done this before and the story the
Choice of the spirits in this co= ntext comes utterly recommended.
I'll check that = out. Thanks again, Rhapsody.


R= hapsody
*poofs*
 



Delicious ideas to please the pi= ckiest eaters. Watch the video= on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204329146-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1325 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5904 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 00:01:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 00:01:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO fk-out-0910.google.com) (209.85.128.186) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 00:01:06 -0000 X-Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so9397680fks.12 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:01:05 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.82.168.2 with SMTP id q2mr10464760bue.13.1204329664957; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:01:04 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f4sm1266628nfh.26.2008.02.29.16.01.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:01:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47C89CC5.8090103@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 01:01:09 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Houseless elves (replacement of query sent wit... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=lJ_2JIPjPwAI0D7qA2It0iGyfys2qFAHTEXWqoet0gEhuOHJdHYtaMg X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: > Thanks, Rhaps. I was hoping for the Cliff Notes version. I have the > other-persons-story syndrome on this one. I'd do the research for myself, but not > just for an opinion on someone else's theme. I am overwhelmed this week also. I can utterly relate to that. *hug* Those curve balls of life huh? I also read your comment to Sirielle. At the end of the first age, the exiled ones were all forgiven and being pardoned to go home. Some could not do that yet. For example Galadriel is a very good example who needed to go through some extra catharsis (her utter test was refusing the one ring), before she found that she could return home. Redemption however was offered to all (its at the end of chapter 24 or the beginning of the numenor bit), even servants of my muse (hey, shut up muse!): it is up to themselves to make up their mind. However once dead, there is the call of Mandos, pending on if they will answer, the state of their fea or their own mind in this sense seals the deal. Hang in there! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1326 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3167 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 00:05:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 00:05:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 00:05:37 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c2d.2c30e474 (42809) for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:05:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:05:31 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204329931" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Houseless elves (replacement of query sent wit... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=94y-Ies962Wuw0qQxbE8U9nRfl7EMZDUtNrFggWZTvZIl5GxgGe6 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204329931 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/29/2008 7:01:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes: However once dead, there is the call of Mandos, pending on if they will answer, the state of their fea or their own mind in this sense seals the deal. Hang in there! Rhapsody Thanks, again. I think I was collapsing the concept of the call of Mandos at death and the Noldor banned from returning before the War of Wrath as being a related problem. As though Namo could stand at the door of the Halls of Mandos and say to dead elves: sorry we're not taking rebellious Noldor yet, you're still under a ban. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204329931 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 2/29/2008 7:01:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com w= rites:

However = once dead, there is the call
of Mandos, pending on if they will answ= er, the state of their fea or
their own mind in this sense seals the = deal.

Hang in there!

Rhapsody

<= DIV>Thanks, again. I think I was collapsing the concept of the call of Mand= os at death and the Noldor banned from returning before the War of Wr= ath as being a related problem. As though Namo could stand at the door of = the Halls of Mandos and say to dead elves: sorry we're not taking rebellio= us Noldor yet, you're still under a ban.



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204329931-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1327 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21812 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 00:09:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 00:09:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 00:09:17 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747223E8071 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:09:16 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:09:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:09:15 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <88696532.20080301010915@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] (no subject) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=D3lBlBew7iXO_JhROua9PcIKFxwd9W1E7HzjbJAZbtWFx2zOQ2I X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> I vewlieved they knew they would normnally go to the Halls hac> of Mandos, but what happened once they had abandoned Aman? If hac> there was a difference then. IMO no difference - as Rhapsody said LACAE says so ;) Of course we may conspire if LACAE were already written down (I still follow the version that ME refugees on Eressea put them in words) and / if they were real laws in which Eldar believed or something someone carved in a stone, but no one really cares. In my vision Quendi do not take any laws that lightly so if they would have them they would followed them out of honor and respect for the Powers, Iluvatar and others. Behaving good only when policeman is not watching is clearly human thing, when Eldar break laws they have a reason, like oath for example. Well, here is even more late than in Rhapsody's time zone (unless we're in the same one), but I hope it makes sense. Still that's my vision and who knows - Tolkien's, given the laws and society in which he was raised. But your friend would have to make her own version and choose basing on that. Elf being evil on his own is AU itself, the only examples I recall are Morgoth's captives forced to work for him and betray others. hac>> She�wants my comments and I really don't� know if the hac>> conception that a follower of the sons of Feanor could become a hac>> houseless elf controlled by Sauron was AU or canon. Could Sauron have so much power? Maybe. But as I said I belive that elf cooperating with evil is AU, elf being forced to evil is canon. This idea probably has changed among various stages of legendary, but still it must be somewhere remark in the Silmarillion of Eldar killing former captives for they often became enemies and tried to kill kings etc. Or maybe it's only from 'Under the curse' by Finch, which had to be based on canon material anyway. hac> If that follower was former captive of Morgoth/Sauron? hac> No not a former captive of Morgoth/Sauron, just a rotten hac> guy in her opinon for being one of the ones who abandoned Dior's hac> sons to die. As I said - IMO simply rotten Eldarin guy is AU. But if oath/curse of Mandos brought him to total madness then why not? If she explains/sells that well she should go for it no matter if that's AU or not, since this is always subjective. hac> (I have trouble with these questions because, hac> although I am an atheist, I was raised a hardcore Irish Catholic hac> and I am still big on the concept of redemption in one form or hac> another always being possible and light on writing anyone off as hac> purely and simply evil.) I think JRRT would say the same, but on the other hand he carelessly gave no such chance to some characters. hac> Thanks for responding. It is useful to read your remarks and narrow down my question. Good, only I am not sure if I am right ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1328 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50545 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 00:19:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 00:19:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 00:19:06 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759123E805E for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:19:05 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:19:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:19:04 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <646862226.20080301011904@tlen.pl> To: Sirielle In-Reply-To: <88696532.20080301010915@tlen.pl> References: <88696532.20080301010915@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: spelling X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=a7tinNbrsh50oU18thkpL9ZlfwYolbCC4VUX7LP9MSeQJjqjqu4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle S> I think JRRT would say the same, but on the other hand he carelessly S> gave no such chance to some characters. It supposed to be 'cruel' not 'careless', but my spellcheck had no better idea ;) What would it be spelled - cruelessly? cruerly? Cheers ;) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1329 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60566 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 00:23:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 00:23:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 00:23:11 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cf7.2ac439dd (42809) for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:23:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:23:07 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204330987" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] spelling X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=KSgI1Kt-FCzQC7uXmlQqCwskCrhh4Eilmv_Wu-gIiFnybDrw5JVb X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204330987 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/29/2008 7:19:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: What would it be spelled - cruelessly? cruerly? In American English that would be most cruelly or cruelly. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204330987 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 2/29/2008 7:19:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl write= s:
What would it be spelled - cruelessly? cruerl= y?
In American English that would be most cruelly or cruelly.



Delicious ideas to please the pi= ckiest eaters. Watch the video= on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204330987-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1330 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77799 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 00:29:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 00:29:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 00:29:56 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ABD43E8050 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:29:55 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:29:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:29:55 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <795199702.20080301012955@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] spelling X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=mrLQgDsA3utP7M8ln8wi0DeWrmtQidBWwNCPRUdgeEjyLowj3Qs X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle hac> What would it be spelled - cruelessly? cruerly? hac> In American English that would be most cruelly or cruelly. Thank you, I'll try to remember :) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1331 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37766 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 00:31:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 00:31:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 00:31:31 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c94.27c25150 (42809) for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:31:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:31:20 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204331480" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] spelling X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=DjW6OpdUj82eHDBtYCzWuDRevO4CtZOzS9NuCW5A2VOEMChBTC4w X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204331480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, I'll try to remember :) Or just ask me! **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204331480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Thank you, I'll try to remember :)
 
Or just ask me!



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204331480-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1332 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12260 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 06:44:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 06:44:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.170) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 06:44:45 -0000 X-Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id q2so749676uge.50 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:44:44 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.75.1 with SMTP id c1mr1269691wal.84.1204353883177; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:44:43 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:44:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:44:43 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_22015_27804959.1204353883182" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Houseless elves (replacement of query sent without SUBJECT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=bPbb2I-GSGR3cUuvaDk_I_OIyssHGzUV12AERsKi_z-ghSxFWyOE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_22015_27804959.1204353883182-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1333 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30029 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 11:17:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 11:17:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.173) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 11:17:21 -0000 X-Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id a2so920487ugf.13 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 03:17:19 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.78.130.6 with SMTP id c6mr6439720hud.7.1204370239621; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 03:17:19 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 32sm19651883nfu.7.2008.03.01.03.17.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 01 Mar 2008 03:17:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47C93B45.9080901@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:17:25 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Houseless elves (replacement of query sent without SUBJECT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=pjW08jzUPUAeSPNmy2tXrZZ1lia6henKuWOXNv2P0M4XWQ1eB4GLqfs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Dawn Felagund wrote: > Oh, Oshun, hand me a can opener, for you have just brought out a can of > worms. ;) Elven death and afterlife is one of my favorite research topics. > > As has been mentioned already, I can see two ways that an Elf can become > houseless. One is the normal process of "fading"; the other is the refusal > of Namo's call. > > Fading, in my humble opinion, is one of the most common incorrectly written > canon concepts I've encountered. I have been working on an essay on fading > for about a year now and have yet to find any proof that "fading" is the > same as "death from grief," as fanon commonly represents it. (Full > disclosure: I have not finished searching all of the books yet.) It is > something very different, and infinitely weirder and more interesting (imho > again). I knew you were still studying this, so that's why I didn't touch fading... :) MR (L&C) describes it best: > I hope that is helpful. :) > > One last thing before I shut up and go back to the B2MeM graphic I'm * > supposed* to be working on, is to keep in mind the source from which all of > this comes. L&C is not, imho (again), the most reliable of sources. It is > written by a mortal Man; if one assumes Aelfwine as the author, then a > mortal man living in 5th century AD, a time *very* far removed from when > most of us--even LotR writers--will be writing. Even if one makes the common > (and, so far as I know, canonically correct) assumption that Elven culture > is slow in changing, I think it's safe to say that First- or Third-Age Elves > aren't going to believe or behave exactly the same as Elves living in 5th C > AD, nor are Noldorin exiles going to believe or behave the same as those > returned to Eressea. > > L&C, interestingly, even states outright, "What then happened to the > houseless fea? The answer to this question the Elves did not know by nature > ... It was in Aman that they learned of Manwe ..." So the information that > the Elves are giving to the L&C narrator/Aelfwine was received by them from > the Valar in the first place. Can we trust, then, all the stuff about > houseless spirits have evil tendencies and being ensnared by Morgoth to be > entirely correct? I suppose the "correct" and credulous answer is *yes.* But > I'm a self-proclaimed heretic where canon is concerned, so I wonder ... ;) Well, if it was only Lace, yes then I would agree, but such a thing is not in Lace alone. Finrod and Andreth talk at length about death, their fates, love ect in Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth (one of my absolute fav pieces of Tolkien). There hroa and fea is discussed, the influence of Endor & Melkor upon elves and men. It's too much to cite it, but I daresay that Tolkien's concept of death and going to Mandos' halls still stands even outside LACE. Then there is Glorfindel's essay, him being an exiled one, going to Mandos, returning from it. Finrod's own case. Beren & Luthien's case in the Silm comes to mind too, I mean Luthien knew of this being from a Sinda/Maiar line. Even before Aelfwine washed upon the shores of Tol Eressa somewhere in the 4th age, there is enough material and knowledge amongst Elves about those halls and death that your Quendi status in Endor does not matter when you are called to Mandos. > > Anyway, I think, from what I understand of it, that your friend can > certainly get away with her idea without putting a blinking neon *"AU"* sign > on the story. ;) And now, it is back to work, then off to bed, for me. :) Well, yes, as I said before, it depends on the state of mind of that elf (for the actions you've done, you'll be redressed by that in the halls by Mandos therapy, I know that you Dawn and Istarnie both have pieces on that as well). If he or she is still rather angry with Mandos and the Valar, he might as well flip the bird and go his own merry way. From the Valar pov, he's still tainted then ;) But redemption is possible. Rhapsody (is indeed in Sirielle's timezone) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1334 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18460 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 14:51:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 14:51:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ik-out-1112.google.com) (66.249.90.178) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 14:51:58 -0000 X-Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b35so2816185ika.3 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 06:51:57 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.60.19 with SMTP id i19mr219406waa.142.1204383117173; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 06:51:57 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 06:51:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:51:57 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47C93B45.9080901@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_22723_22689167.1204383117169" References: <47C93B45.9080901@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Houseless elves (replacement of query sent without SUBJECT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=3bTjI23Jd7pyoX2ZlzH29tNydq3bzAFdOkGJaYHSUI5plqUAp0TA X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_22723_22689167.1204383117169-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1335 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28716 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 15:31:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 15:31:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.130) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 15:31:06 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 15:31:06 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 15:31:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 15:31:06 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 15:31:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Houseless elves (replacement of query sent without SUBJECT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=cvGOhmV82JFYWxFUzNVT3Dx2GdB1O5janFvKHuduWGHEkd50ywD52Rt- X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > > Though I'll admit that I would *love* to read a skep= tical take on such > essentials as fear/hroar and Mandos as well. Uh oh, I = think I feel little > teeth nibbling (and I *so* do not have time for this!= ;) > Although not written as a story or essay that explicitly addresses = these, there will likely be some skeptic questioning of these concepts that= will eventually appear in my latest WIP. But then, by necessity, I must l= abel whatever I write as AU because my own skepticism colors my interpretat= ion of JRRT just as much as his own belief system, which clearly embraced C= artesian dualism, affected his great works. I always wondered how accessib= le re-embodiment/reincarnation was to any given Elf. Or were these special= cases, e.g., Finrod and Glorfindel? I'm afraid the capriciousness of the = Valar cause me to wonder if such reincarnation is the exception rather than= the rule, not unlike the contrast of E=E4rendil going through maritime hel= l to beg the Valar for help, but then Tuor apparently getting a cheerful "c= 'mon over" from the Divine Ones. Of course, one could always argue there w= ere plenty of cases which were not documented by the "historians." From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1336 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28181 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 16:33:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 16:33:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.185) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 16:33:22 -0000 X-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k4so3348260nfd.40 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:33:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.78.189.5 with SMTP id m5mr12131501huf.74.1204389201721; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:33:21 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b35sm3804730ugd.33.2008.03.01.08.33.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:33:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47C98557.8030300@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 17:33:27 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of query sent without SUBJECT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Uev3Ga_3El-uY50GSJDgMbo4sYA8RYrHZ91a5eSJgnzxS-1N93hfYSw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard pandemonium_213 wrote: > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" > wrote: >> >> Though I'll admit that I would *love* to read a skeptical take on such >> essentials as fear/hroar and Mandos as well. Uh oh, I think I feel >> little teeth nibbling (and I *so* do not have time for this! ;) Hmmm yay!!! ;) Who needs glue? Just a few e-mails here and there and the bunnies are all over you Dawn ;c) *whistles an innocent tune* > Although not written as a story or essay that explicitly addresses > these, there will likely be some skeptic questioning of these concepts > that will eventually appear in my latest WIP. But then, by necessity, > I must label whatever I write as AU because my own skepticism colors > my interpretation of JRRT just as much as his own belief system, which > clearly embraced Cartesian dualism, affected his great works. Of course! I think that our own worldviews/morality will define on how we see or write things, and this combined with what is known in canon so in a way, the professor's opinion plays a part too. That's the challenge of writing in this fandom, imho. Not only that, it will define us differently as authors. For me a story has to be way way way out of line of the story before I will ever label it as AU :) > I always wondered how accessible re-embodiment/reincarnation was to > any given Elf. Or were these special cases, e.g., Finrod and > Glorfindel? I'm afraid the capriciousness of the Valar cause me to > wonder if such reincarnation is the exception rather than the rule, > not unlike the contrast of E�rendil going through maritime hell to beg > the Valar for help, but then Tuor apparently getting a cheerful "c'mon > over" from the Divine Ones. Of course, one could always argue there > were plenty of cases which were not documented by the "historians." As far as I know re-embodiment was for all, if you wanted to because one needed to re-imagine their own body before you could get it back... or something like that (I recall reading it somewhere but *not* in Lace, yes I know, not helpful!). I am sorry, it's dinner time here and the smells of that are highly distracting. Hmmmm freshly baked bread.... french brie... Rhapsody (carpe diem and all of that) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1337 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16772 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 17:14:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 17:14:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 17:14:55 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d52.261e35b8 (42809) for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:14:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:14:46 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204391686" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of query sent... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=XfgKJOaP7jPxoIQ5eWkt56sX_EeDaDSLVK0oxy5pOHG90vWM5hrM X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204391686 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First, thanks Rhapsody and Dawn. Your points are really usually and int= eresting. (And, as usual, when I was complaining about not liking stories = around in this question in general, of course, I was thinking of the Ghos= t in the Garden (really great--loved Galadriel confronted with Sindar rea= soning) and the other one mentioned as well. Oh, Rhapsody, I so agree th= at one's individual belief system will affect strongly how one interprets= the contradictory information available. On your memory of "re-imagine t= heir own body before you could get it back." I don't remember reading tha= t in Tolkien, although I did remember the other things you and Dawn raise= d from canon sources. I do remember a fanfic (forgotten about who or by w= hom now) which dealt with the conception though. Either the writer was ve= ry creative or got it somewhere. I'm afraid the capriciousness of the Val= ar cause me to wonder if such reincarnation is the exception rather than t= he rule, not unlike the contrast of E=E4rendil going through maritime hell= to beg the Valar for help, but then Tuor apparently getting a cheerful "c= 'mon over" from the Divine Ones. Of course, one could always argue there w= ere plenty of cases which were not documented by the "historians.w Frus= trating and so true. But that very capriciousness gives me leaway into to= writing it the way I want to see it. Actually, the Valar did seem to have= quite a thing for Tuor. I'll have re-read his story a few more times bef= ore I decide what it was he actually did that made him so favored over ot= hers outside of being very goodlooking. I'm struggling myself with wanti= ng to give my Maedhros and Fingon a happy ending, but not wanting to writ= e a safe-at-last-in-Valinor (or I call it died-and-gone-to-heaven) ending= to my saga. I also especially appreciate Dawn's dislike of the fading c= oncept interpreted as though someone needs a swift kick in the butt or wh= iff of smelling salts. (I think that concept in fanfics comes straight out= of telling someone that they can only have sex with one person and then = allowing the only one to be killed off while they are still young and vig= orous. Not a happy plotline. But you all know I have short patience with = hand-wringing.) **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch v= ideo on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-p= icky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=3Daolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204391686 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
First, thanks Rhapsody and Dawn. Your points are reall= y usually and interesting. (And, as usual, when I was complaining about no= t liking stories around in this question in general, of course, I was thin= king of the Ghost in the Garden (really great--loved Galadriel confronted = with Sindar reasoning) and the other one mentioned as well.<= /DIV>
 
Oh, Rhapsody, I so agree that one's individual= belief system will affect strongly how one interprets the contradictory i= nformation available. On your memory of "re-imagine their own body before = you could get it back." I don't remember reading that in Tolkien, although= I did remember the other things you and Dawn raised from canon sources. I= do remember a fanfic (forgotten about who or by whom now) which dealt wit= h the conception though. Either the writer was very creative or got it som= ewhere.
 
I'm= afraid the capriciousness of the Valar cause me to
wonder if such rein= carnation is the exception rather than the rule,
not unlike the contras= t of E=E4rendil going through maritime hell to beg
the Valar for help, = but then Tuor apparently getting a cheerful "c'mon
over" from the Divine= Ones. Of course, one could always argue there
were plenty of cases whi= ch were not documented by the "historians."
 
Frustrating and so true. But that v= ery capriciousness gives me leaway into to writing it the way I want = to see it. Actually, the Valar did seem to have quite a thing for Tuo= r. I'll have re-read his story a few more times before I decide what it wa= s he actually did that made him so favored over others outside of bei= ng very goodlooking.
 
I'm strugg= ling myself with wanting to give my Maedhros and Fingon a happy ending, bu= t not wanting to write a safe-at-last-in-Valinor (or I call it died-and-go= ne-to-heaven) ending to my saga.
 
I also especially appreciate Dawn's dislike of the fading concept interp= reted as though someone needs a swift kick in the butt or whiff of smellin= g salts. (I think that concept in fanfics comes straight out of telling so= meone that they can only have sex with one person and then allowing the on= ly one to be killed off while they are still young and vigorous. Not a hap= py plotline. But you all know I have short patience with hand-wringin= g.)
 


Delicious ideas to please = the pickiest eaters. Watch the= video on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204391686-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1338 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27204 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 17:26:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 17:26:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 17:26:31 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d2e.17d2c1d3 (42809) for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:26:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:26:24 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204392384" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of query sent... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=IlcKFygEY8nfZfqmkGJoIh518Zkkln4bIvmQfymea16VkgdfMdaX X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204392384 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/2008 12:15:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, heartofoshun@aol.com writes: Your points are really usually and interesting. (And, as usual, when I was complaining about not liking stories around in this question in general, of course, I was thinking of the Ghost in the Garden (really great--loved Galadriel confronted with Sindar reasoning) and the other one mentioned as well. Such misleading typos in this paragraph I have to correct it: Your points are really useful and interesting. (And, as usual, when I was complaining about not liking stories around in this question in general, of course, I was not thinking of the Ghost in the Garden (really great--loved Galadriel confronted with Sindar reasoning) and the other one mentioned as well. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204392384 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/1/2008 12:15:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, heartofoshun@aol.com w= rites:
Y= our points are really usually and interesting. (And, as usual, when I wa= s complaining about not liking stories around in this question in genera= l, of course, I was thinking of the Ghost in the Garden (really great--l= oved Galadriel confronted with Sindar reasoning) and the other one menti= oned as well.
Such= misleading typos in this paragraph I have to correct it:
 = ;
= Your points are really useful and interesting. (An= d, as usual, when I was complaining about not liking stories around in t= his question in general, of course, I was not thinking = of the Ghost in the Garden (really great--loved Galadriel confronted wit= h Sindar reasoning) and the other one mentioned as well.



Delic= ious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204392384-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1339 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37864 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 18:47:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 18:47:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO gv-out-0910.google.com) (216.239.58.186) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 18:47:08 -0000 X-Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id r4so2175339gve.22 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 10:47:06 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.81.1 with SMTP id e1mr3325082wab.11.1204397226329; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 10:47:06 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 10:47:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:47:06 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23225_18977344.1204397226324" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of query sent without SUBJECT)") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Njo7SvhSQKxcfQM7CujDG9aFlqZzFStXnuPgY49eNIH15KqWl-XZ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_23225_18977344.1204397226324-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1340 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84504 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 19:12:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 19:12:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 19:12:57 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.be8.2b41b6ed (42809) for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:12:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:12:54 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204398774" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=v3upKfYGiVBxWGonS-NgO5K8t928rnOz_LiVe329XU-z42Vlh3gI X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204398774 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/2008 1:47:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: One thing in your comment really jumped out at me and that is how you personally define AU. I'm in line with you on that one: a person has to radically change an aspect of definitive canon before I'm willing to call the story AU. For example, having Feanor survive into the Second Age would be AU to me. Saying that Maedhros was homosexual would not because we are given no information about his romantic life (aside from the fact that he did not appear to be married), nor are we given any information about whether or not homosexuality existed in Arda; neither involves changing any definitive canon fact. To me, an absence of something in the canon doesn't make a story AU. I totally agree with you. I do not consider gapfilling to be AU. I have stopped marking my stories AU which fill in missing aspects of the story, but stick rather close to canon in its broad outlines. I promise my readers that nobody who was killed off in the text will live and no one who lives from the First Age into the Third Age will be killed in the Dagor-nuin-Giliath. If I should chose to do that sort of thing, or write a Harry Potter/Silmarillion crossover (not likely! although I did read a excellent one), then I will happily label it AU. When I first started to write LOTR fanfiction, I was essentially told that everything that wasn't a dreary or sappy re-wording of the published text was to be marked AU and I followed that practice for a while (that made everything I wrote AU). Then later I considered how narrow that was, especially when I realized that all those cute little Estel and oh-those-wacky-twins stories were not labeled AU. Or that there is a whole Eomer/Lothiriel genre considered semi-official canon based upon a girl who is only a footnote with a birthdate and those were not AU. Then, of course, there is always the argument that Tolkien wouldn't approve. Well, unfortunately he is dead and we can't ask him, although I will concede that we can make certain broad assumptions about whether a storyline might strike a sour or pleasant chord with him, but still that does not make a story AU. He left the holes he left, we fill in the blanks, largely with great love and respect for the wonderful world he created. It was always fascinating to me that I spent so much more time doing my homework than most of the critics who call my stories AU. I have, however, found the world of Silmarillion writers far more tolerant. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204398774 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/1/2008 1:47:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com = writes:
One thing in your comment reall= y jumped out at me and that is how you personally define AU. I'm in line= with you on that one: a person has to radically change an aspect of def= initive canon before I'm willing to call the story AU. For example, havi= ng Feanor survive into the Second Age would be AU to me. Saying that Mae= dhros was homosexual would not because we are given no information about= his romantic life (aside from the fact that he did not appear to be mar= ried), nor are we given any information about whether or not homosexuality = existed in Arda; neither involves changing any definitive canon fact. To= me, an absence of something in the canon doesn't make a story AU.
<= BR>
I totally agree with you. I = do not consider gapfilling to be AU. I have stopped marking my stories AU = which fill in missing aspects of the story, but stick rather close to cano= n in its broad outlines. I promise my readers that nobody who wa= s killed off in the text will live and no one who lives from the First Age= into the Third Age will be killed in the Dagor-nuin-Giliath. If I sh= ould chose to do that sort of thing, or write a Harry Potter/Silmarillion = crossover (not likely! although I did read a excellent one), then I w= ill happily label it AU.
 
When I first started = to write LOTR fanfiction, I was essentially told that everything that wasn= 't a dreary or sappy re-wording of the published text was to be marked AU = and I followed that practice for a while (that made everything I wrote AU)= . Then later I considered how narrow that was, especially when I realized = that all those cute little Estel and oh-those-wacky-twins stories were not=  labeled AU. Or that there is a whole Eomer/Lothiriel genre considered= semi-official canon based upon a girl who is only a footnote with a birth= date and those were not AU.
 
Then, of course, = there is always the argument that Tolkien wouldn't approve. Well, unfortun= ately he is dead and we can't ask him, although I will concede that we can= make certain broad assumptions about whether a storyline might strike a&n= bsp;sour or pleasant chord with him, but still that does not make a s= tory AU. He left the holes he left, we fill in the blanks, largely with gr= eat love and respect for the wonderful world he created. It was always fas= cinating to me that I spent so much more time doing my homework than most o= f the critics who call my stories AU. I have, however, found the world of = Silmarillion writers far more tolerant.



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204398774-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1341 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4041 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 19:23:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 19:23:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 19:23:08 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB94E58031 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:23:07 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:23:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:23:07 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <210171635.20080301202307@tlen.pl> To: pandemonium_213 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=U1gAGLl-gbj3sHuvjQkw9rvdoaqiOKUORs05bWPp16-xjdtQduc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle p> I always wondered how accessible re-embodiment/reincarnation was to p> any given Elf. Or were these special cases, e.g., Finrod and p> Glorfindel? p> (...) p> Of course, one could always argue there were plenty of cases which were not documented by the "historians." I'm sure there were. I think exception is rather F�anor who is never to be reembodied till Arda Healed. If JRRT had more time on Arda we would have better source material for debates. Unfortunately someone else did an order in his notes. I haven't peered to Glorfindel's essay but I think reincarnation is backed up there, as Rhapsody already mentioned. Text in Tolkien's own words not rewritten by Silmarillion editors. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1342 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73340 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 19:28:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 19:28:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 19:28:18 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B740E3E80B8 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:28:17 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:28:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:28:17 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1505308006.20080301202817@tlen.pl> To: pandemonium_213 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Capriciousness of the Valar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=UWDfCtDzuP14Pllu3V_fANo2FKeP0copn9ZAcugFFaJ0QARD3HA X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Hi p> I'm afraid the capriciousness of the Valar This is interesting, what do you mean by their capriciousness? Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1343 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18261 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 19:50:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 19:50:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 19:50:21 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16E425803F for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:50:21 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:50:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:50:20 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <2910664702.20080301205020@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of query sent... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=DBwX_PE2Avti7wEhd37Ys9TJPLkyADYXskje_vbcFEFLbP103Ug X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> Oh, Rhapsody, I so agree that one's individual belief hac> system will affect strongly how one interprets the contradictory hac> information available. Even on not contradictory information. hac> On your memory of "re-imagine their own hac> body before you could get it back." I don't remember reading hac> that in Tolkien, although I did remember the other things you hac> and Dawn raised from canon sources. What about the history of Finw� and Miriel in HoME? There must be more on the subject (not necessarily that line). On a side note I still haven't found a proof that Finw� eventually got out :( Nede to browse these texts closer one day. hac> I do remember a fanfic (forgotten about who or by whom now) which dealt with the hac> conception though. Either the writer was very creative or got it hac> somewhere. Just in case you haven't red it - which I rather doubt, it's old - check 'Under the curse' by Finch. Excellent M & F story and the best scenes in Mandos I ever red (only I wish it ended a bit differently). Not that I red many stories taking place in Mandos (and I am not up to date with newer fan fiction, too). hac> Actually, the Valar did seem to have quite a thing for Tuor. hac> I'll have re-read his story a few more times before I decide hac> what it was he actually did that made him so favored over hac> others�outside of being very goodlooking. Maybe because he followed their will and never lost hope in Valar, even when Turgon disobeyed Ulmo's 'suggestion'? Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1344 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4590 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 19:55:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 19:55:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 19:55:22 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so11081371wah.24 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 11:55:22 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.127.1 with SMTP id z1mr13740892wac.26.1204401322715; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 11:55:22 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:55:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:55:22 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <2910664702.20080301205020@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23389_15311401.1204401322701" References: <2910664702.20080301205020@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of query sent... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ySO1OWzHG36rDFBrOGV45Xf2tbS23ylKhYCD1iILJaT7zFodkO37 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_23389_15311401.1204401322701-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1345 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23943 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 19:56:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 19:56:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 19:56:45 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d15.1c3cc91f (42809) for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:56:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:56:37 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204401397" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of que... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=svKWoXj6pzhh7i9t6ilI4uEvjlFIn2dBFDK0atmq71QO9UEZz6Vh X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204401397 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/2008 2:50:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: Just in case you haven't red it - which I rather doubt, it's old - check 'Under the curse' by Finch. Excellent M & F story and the best scenes in Mandos I ever red (only I wish it ended a bit differently)s Not that I red many stories taking place in Mandos (and I am not up to date with newer fan fiction, too). Oh, of course, I read that story--many times! Excellent, excellent story. I must admit, my own series on Maedhros/Fingon was greatly influenced/inspired by it, although what I wanted to write was almost the anthesis of it. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204401397 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/1/2008 2:50:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes= :
Just in case you haven't red it - wh= ich I rather doubt, it's old -
check 'Under the curse' by Finch. Exce= llent M & F story and the best
scenes in Mandos I ever red (only = I wish it ended a bit differently).
Not that I red many stories = taking place in Mandos (and I am not up
to date with newer fan fictio= n, too).

Oh, of course, = I read that story--many times! Excellent, excellent story. I must adm= it, my own series on Maedhros/Fingon was greatly influenced/inspired by it= , although what I wanted to write was almost the anthesis of it.



Delicious ideas to please the pi= ckiest eaters. Watch the video= on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204401397-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1346 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63904 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 19:59:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 19:59:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 19:59:24 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c66.2ae59439 (42809) for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:59:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:59:09 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204401548" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of que... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=0vam9aF8zvy_p7Owy-0J84XBqTZd3chL3OTuPd-xdY8JjvbybF4l X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204401548 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/2008 2:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, heartofoshun@aol.com writes: Oh, of course, I read that story--many times! Excellent, excellent story. I must admit, my own series on Maedhros/Fingon was greatly influenced/inspired by it, although what I wanted to write was almost the anthesis of it. Sorry about the typo--antithesis! **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204401548 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/1/2008 2:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, heartofoshun@aol.com wr= ites:
Oh, of course, I read that story--many times! Excellent, e= xcellent story. I must admit, my own series on Maedhros/Fingon was = greatly influenced/inspired by it, although what I wanted to write was a= lmost the anthesis of it.

Sorry about the typo--antithesis!



Delicious ideas to please the pi= ckiest eaters. Watch the video= on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204401548-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1347 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95846 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:03:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:03:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n47b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.161) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:03:56 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n47.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:03:56 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:03:56 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:03:56 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 20:03:56 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <210171635.20080301202307@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Houseless elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=ospb0S0Cimn5igeupG-W7VfTrJkyU_IaGspSbGWlMmLoRQxFO7T9J1j3 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > I'm sure there were. I think exception is rather F=EBanor who is= never > to be reembodied till Arda Healed. Hi Sirielle! Yep, with regard= to F=EBanor, that is canonically accurate. I'm less certain of the rest -= unspoken/unwritten is rife with ambiguity. > > If JRRT had more time on A= rda we would have better source material for > debates. Unfortunately someo= ne else did an order in his notes. Yes, completely agree here. One of the= things I love about the HoMe is the manner in which it documents the evolu= tion of his thoughts and world. I > haven't peered to Glorfindel's essay = but I think reincarnation is > backed up there, as Rhapsody already mention= ed. Text in > Tolkien's own words not rewritten by Silmarillion editors. Y= ep again. Although Christopher T does change his mind, e.g.,quoting from f= ootnote 17 from Last Writings "Of Glorfindel, C=EDrdan and other matters" i= n vol XII of the HoMe: "He wrote here reincarnation of elves x.363-4 that = the idea (rebirth) 'must be abandoned, or at least noted as a false notion,= e.g. probably of Mannish origin, since nearly all the matter of The Silmar= illion is contained in myths and legends that have passed through Men's han= ds and minds and are (in many points) plainly influenced by contact and con= fusion with the myths, theories and legends of Men'c17f p 357 note My (Ch= ristopher Tolkien) discussion of this matter in X.364 must be corrected. I = said there that the idea that the 'houseless' fea was enbalbed to rebuild i= ts hroa from its memory became my father's 'firm and stable view on the mat= ter', 'as appears from very late writing on the subject of the reincarnatio= n of Glorfindel of Gondolin.' This is erroneous. This last discussion of = Elvish reincarnation refers only to the 'restoration' or 'reconstitution' o= f the former body by the Valar, and makes no mention of the idea that it co= uld be achieved by the 'houseless fea' operating of itself." That's some i= nteresting text IMO. It certainly suggests that the Valar had a major hand= in who would be reincarnated. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1348 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16832 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:21:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:21:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.214) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:21:06 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:21:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:21:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:21:06 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 20:21:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1505308006.20080301202817@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Capriciousness of the Valar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=MOWCvh84SWQm9VE0BLtjGHTEWqRDH14isGTB4O2QyYQW12ZPauXCxlc7 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > p> I'm afraid the capriciousness of the Valar > > This is int= eresting, what do you mean by their capriciousness? > > Hi, Sirielle! By= "capriciousness" I mean a certain inconsistency in their actions. The case= of E=E4rendil and Tuor to me is the most glaring. Tuor is allowed into Va= linor (inferred anyway although this could just be another "myth of Men" se= e my other response to you which cites that footnote) and "counted among th= e Firstborn." Yet E=E4rendil, who actually carries direct Eldarin lineage = is allowed to reach Valinor only under the most extenuating circumstances. = There's a troublesome inconsistency there. I just received a copy of the = Parma Eldalamberon (v. 17) which contains this passage - written by JRRT: = "With regard to Elves and Men Eru had made one absolute prohibition: the Va= lar were not to attempt to dominate the Children ... ...The Valar - all sa= ve one, Melkor, obeyed this prohibition, according to their wisdom.* *This= is said because the invitation given to the Eldar to remove to Valinor and= live unendangered by Melkor was not in fact according to the design of Eru= . It arose from anxiety, and it might be said from failure in trust of Eru= , and from anxiety and fear of Melkor, and the decision of the Eldar to acc= ept the invitation was due to the overwhelming effect of their contact, whi= le still in their inexperienced youth, with the bliss of Aman and the beaut= y and majesty of the Valar. It had disastrous consequences in diminishing = the Elves of Middle-earth and so depriving Men of a large measure of the in= tended help and teaching of their 'elder brethren', and exposing them more = dangerously to the power and deceits of Melkor. Also since it was in fact a= lien to the nature of the Elves to live under the protection of Aman, and n= ot (as was intended) in Middle-earth, one consequence was the revolt of the= Noldor." Although this may not be defined as "capricious," it does seem = to indicate that the Valar exercised bad judgment on occasion. :^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1349 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47068 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:21:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:21:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:21:13 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413373E808D for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:21:11 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:21:10 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:21:10 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <135063736.20080301212110@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <2910664702.20080301205020@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of query sent... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=KzL91l0Bokq9QYkDwHiWBv2IkYbGbp9AL93yronzp7NB3JG4qsI X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> I do believe there is a passage somewhere that says that DF> Finwe never got out because his body was so damaged during his DF> fight with Morgoth that it was essentially beyond repair. No, he didn't got out because as he says he stays in Mandos on behalf of his girls so they could both live. It's in MR. DF> quote me. I also seem to remember that it was an old idea ... but DF> I don't recall ever having seen it refuted. :^/ Must be abandoned given the newest version of their story in MR. Quotation from MR - got it handy for my Finw� posted it once to Valar for confirmation of text's authenticity, but they kept silence :/ ;) MR says: ________________________ And Finw� said to Vair�: 'Dost thou hear the prayer and desire of M�riel? Why will Mandos refuse this redress of her griefs, that her being may not be void and without avail? Behold! I instead will abide with Mandos for ever, and so make amends. For surely, if I remain unhoused, and forgo life in Arda, then his Doom will be inviolate.' 'So thou may deem,' answered Vair�; 'yet Mandos is stern, and he will not readily permit a vow to be revoked. Also he will consider not only M�riel and thee, but Indis and thy children, whom thou seemest to forget, pitying now M�riel only.' 'Thou art unjust to me in thy thought,' said Finw�. 'It is unlawful to have two wives, but one may love two women, each differently, and without diminishing one love by another. Love of Indis did not drive out love of M�riel; so now pity for M�riel doth not lessen my heart's care for Indis. But Indis parted from me without death. I had not seen her for many years, and when the Marrer smote me I was alone. She hath dear children to comfort her, and her love, I deem, is now most for Ingoldo*. His father she may miss; but not the father of F�an�ro! But above all her heart now yearns for the halls of Ingw� and the peace of the Vanyar, far from the strife of the Noldor. Little comfort should I bring her, if I returned; and the lordship of the Noldor hath passed to my sons.' But when Mandos was approached, he said to Finw�: "It is well that thou desirest not to return, for this I should have forbidden, until the present griefs are long past. But it is better still that thou hast made this offer, to deprive thyself, of thy free will, and out of pity for another. This is a counsel of healing, out of which good may grow." Therefore when Nienna came to him and renewed her prayer for M�riel, he consented, accepting the abnegation of Finw� as her ransom. * Here the mother name of Fingolfin _______________________ "I instead will abide with Mandos for ever, and so make amends." & "Mandos was approached, he said to Finw�: 'It is well that thou desirest not to return, for this I should have forbidden, until the present griefs are long past. But it is better still that thou hast made this offer, to deprive thyself, of thy free will, and out of pity for another. This is a counsel of healing, out of which good may grow.' " All depends on what does it mean "until the present griefs are long past". I see some hope here :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1350 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36275 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:22:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:22:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.190) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:22:41 -0000 X-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id g13so3285878nfb.7 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:22:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.78.205.7 with SMTP id c7mr12752599hug.27.1204402957274; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:22:37 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm20142803nfv.32.2008.03.01.12.22.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:22:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 21:22:44 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=o2dseNfv8QylBOrGY7xujkMLGAwDins9vxaCUGrxpH8z_qsKwkP9yFI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard pandemonium_213 wrote: > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle > wrote: > I >> haven't peered to Glorfindel's essay but I think reincarnation is >> backed up there, as Rhapsody already mentioned. Text in >> Tolkien's own words not rewritten by Silmarillion editors. > > Yep again. Although Christopher T does change his mind, e.g.,quoting > from footnote 17 from Last Writings "Of Glorfindel, C�rdan and other > matters" in vol XII of the HoMe: > > "He wrote here reincarnation of elves x.363-4 that the idea (rebirth) > 'must be abandoned, or at least noted as a false notion, e.g. probably > of Mannish origin, since nearly all the matter of The Silmarillion is > contained in myths and legends that have passed through Men's hands > and minds and are (in many points) plainly influenced by contact and > confusion with the myths, theories and legends of Men'c17f p 357 note > > My (Christopher Tolkien) discussion of this matter in X.364 must be > corrected. I said there that the idea that the 'houseless' fea was > enbalbed to rebuild its hroa from its memory became my father's 'firm > and stable view on the matter', 'as appears from very late writing on > the subject of the reincarnation of Glorfindel of Gondolin.' This is > erroneous. This last discussion of Elvish reincarnation refers only > to the 'restoration' or 'reconstitution' of the former body by the > Valar, and makes no mention of the idea that it could be achieved by > the 'houseless fea' operating of itself." > > That's some interesting text IMO. It certainly suggests that the > Valar had a major hand in who would be reincarnated. > But, elsewhere in the same book or HOME (IIRC), there is an essay about the professor soundly rejecting people being reborn as babies (those stories I do label as AU). Because it would be unnecessary cruel upon both set of parents (the new parents and the first parents) to have them go through this, in that same essay, not the one about Glorfindel, the professor says that it takes up a lot of energy of a person to recreate a body from scratch and from memory, therefore not many did it. It must be the person's wish to do so, not so much as the Valar going like... heeeey Aegnor, you have to be reincarnated, so what say you? No? Too bad because we wants it. I think it's either in HOME 10 or HOME 12 (I think the latter and its in the debate of Finwe & Miriel). I read & studied it extensively when I was writing my first installment of my Maglor novel when doing the NaNoWriMo, so I might have it somewhere, but just like Dawn at this very moment B2MEM and other RL stuff takes away a lot from free time, so I need to dig it up when things become less hectic for me. What I am trying to say however is, whenever I dive into such a thing so canonical (or wanting to be sure it fits canon), I always compare several pieces the professor wrote on the matter. There is a certain growth in his reasoning, so looking at the overview of such a topic might give you a better idea how he regarded it than basing it on one essay (of which I am sure you won't). Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1351 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70319 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:23:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:23:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:23:24 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9495C3E80BA for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:23:22 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:23:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:23:21 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1642535226.20080301212321@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of que... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=hjVKC4WAqeSy93eyDmkVm9cLU5y6n0oCl2f3Kh2uqKYwUf0msJY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle hac> Oh, of course, I read that story--many times! Excellent, hac> excellent story.�I must admit, my own series on Maedhros/Fingon hac> was greatly influenced/inspired by it, although what I wanted to hac> write was almost the anthesis of it. Good :) I need to reread it one day. Not only great Mandos, but also the best Nirnaeth description, though here I have a few fav more. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1352 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26405 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:25:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:25:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:25:33 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2623E8082 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:25:32 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:25:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:25:32 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1216191832.20080301212532@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of que... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=4DiXP30OY9DMumZKB58jDzd4skz_qwKMFh7ZMmWkLLVKU6jmUfc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle hac> although what I wanted to write was almost the antithesis of it. With a different ending maybe? :) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1353 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1351 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:26:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:26:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ik-out-1112.google.com) (66.249.90.178) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:26:22 -0000 X-Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b32so6203365ika.0 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:26:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.209.1 with SMTP id h1mr13777033wag.130.1204403181135; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:26:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:26:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 15:26:21 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <135063736.20080301212110@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23442_3439650.1204403181121" References: <2910664702.20080301205020@tlen.pl> <135063736.20080301212110@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of query sent... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=vFPv6gK_hpmc1ma6vCBr8bnLswzH783wXH9zniaS288B1oqZ_Ftt X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_23442_3439650.1204403181121-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1354 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72320 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:30:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:30:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n49d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.175) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:30:24 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n49.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:30:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:30:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:30:24 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 20:30:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: (no subject) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=WUD0x36ibigJemWb1jFTzgzE0QNLAeSPCPfYqGIUZVrR5fqmDhkxMag6 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > I am completely confused about how houseless elves come about. If you= already > know tell me. If you don't I don't except anyone to do researc= h for me that > I am not in the mood to do for myself. > I thought Elda= r who die or are killed go to the Halls of Mandos. That those > who refus= ed did not necessarily, but I was not sure. I did not know either if > th= e rebellious Noldor knew what their fate would be at death (at least up >= until the time of the War of Wrath) since they had left Aman voluntarily a= nd > against the wishes of the Valar. > I am really not all that interes= ted in stories about fading avari or > houseless elves, but a good friend= is writing a story which includes a case of a > follower of the sons of = Feanor becoming a houseless elf and they taking over > other people's bod= ies. She wants my comments and I really don't know if the > conception th= at a follower of the sons of Feanor could become a houseless elf > contro= lled by Sauron was AU or canon. > Another tidbit from the Parma Eldalam= beron v. 17 (good lord, getting this book has sent me into a quoting frenzy= ). This pertains to Tolkien's discussion of "visions" or indemmar "mind-pi= ctures." (page 179): "...The matter of corrupted or malicious elvish being= s is elsewhere considered. According to the Elves these were mainly disemb= odied Elves, who had met with some mortal damage, but rebelled against the = summons to their spirits to go to their place of Awaiting. Those who so re= belled were mostly those who had been slain in the course of some wrong-doi= ng. This they wandered as 'houseless' elf-souls, invisible except in the f= orm of indemmar that they could induce in others, and filled often with mal= ice and envy of the 'living,' whether elvish or human." This seems to impl= y that most (not all) of the f=EBar of the "malicious" were already corrupt= ed. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1355 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94727 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:30:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:30:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:30:44 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c27.2f73417e (42809) for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 15:30:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 15:30:30 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204403430" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (replacement of que... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=SydjEVNgaNm7qCWaIBghMXRIOKwVJ4oonn1kHzxI-4e7UhA6c7Ru X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204403430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/2008 3:25:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: hac> although what I wanted to write was almost the antithesis of it. With a different ending maybe? :) Definitely a different ending and my whole tone is less sad. (However, as you can imagine, I was fighting an uphill battle to win over readers who had read hers and considered it all but canon on the Maedhros/Fingon story. I got a lot of emails when I first started writing mine telling me to read hers!) **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204403430 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/1/2008 3:25:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes= :
hac> although what I wanted to wr= ite was almost the antithesis of it.

With a different ending mayb= e? :)
Definitely a different= ending and my whole tone is less sad. (However, as you can imagine, I was= fighting an uphill battle to win over readers who had read hers= and considered it all but canon on the Maedhros/Fingon story. I got a lot= of emails when I first started writing mine telling me to read hers!= )



Delicious ideas to ple= ase the pickiest eaters. Watch= the video on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204403430-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1356 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92880 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:39:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:39:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n52b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.166) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:39:41 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n52.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:39:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:39:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2008 20:39:41 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 20:39:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Houseless elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=74FSsBv_egZ9y_8iCsQImv44Gfgv-fP0LXPEKkUawtZQxr6697cfpklD X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Rhapsody = wrote: > > > But, elsewhere in the same book or HOME (IIRC), there is an = essay about the > professor soundly rejecting people being reborn as babies= (those stories I > do label as AU). Because it would be unnecessary cruel = upon both set of > parents (the new parents and the first parents) to have = them go through > this, in that same essay, not the one about Glorfindel, = the professor > says that it takes up a lot of energy of a person to recre= ate a body > from scratch and from memory, therefore not many did it. It m= ust be the > person's wish to do so, not so much as the Valar going like..= . heeeey > Aegnor, you have to be reincarnated, so what say you? No? Too b= ad > because we wants it. Oh, yes, I completely agree - I imagine it's a = mutual agreement between said f=EBa and those who are going to - ah - someh= ow reconstruct the body...and to think there are those who deny that Tolkie= n cannot be binned under "science fiction. :^D > > What I am trying to s= ay however is, whenever I dive into such a thing so > canonical (or wantin= g to be sure it fits canon), I always compare > several pieces the profess= or wrote on the matter. There is a certain > growth in his reasoning, so l= ooking at the overview of such a topic > might give you a better idea how = he regarded it than basing it on one > essay (of which I am sure you won't= ). Heh. Yes, indeed, that's my approach, too. I'll read a bunch of essay= s and then go turn canon on its head. :^) Re: carpe diem - I'm now taking = Rampaging Frodo out for a driving lesson - in *my* car. Wish me luck! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1357 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14253 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:46:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:46:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO gv-out-0910.google.com) (216.239.58.185) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:46:14 -0000 X-Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i36so2179437gve.32 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:46:13 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.110.6 with SMTP id n6mr852906wam.92.1204404373141; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:46:13 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:46:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 15:46:13 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23494_10651616.1204404373135" References: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=2FgTC7rIFR6rqPrpbI91mU2MKubs3s9hi5fY4Jj6cxBziKRqoaiJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_23494_10651616.1204404373135-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1358 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3650 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 20:51:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 20:51:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 20:51:25 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cca.28b9f8f6 (42809) for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 15:51:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 15:51:23 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204404683" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Capriciousness of the Valar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ry3Mu09DY-7XL4sgGWD2fOmKNbRtmWbMyOICChsli4RJhGhehxxH X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204404683 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/2008 3:21:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: Also since it was in fact alien to the nature of the Elves to live under the protection of Aman, and not (as was intended) in Middle-earth, one consequence was the revolt of the Noldor." That's wonderful. I'm going to have to get my hands on that journal. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204404683 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/1/2008 3:21:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com w= rites:
Also since
it was in fact ali= en to the nature of the Elves to live under the
protection of Aman, a= nd not (as was intended) in Middle-earth, one
consequence was the rev= olt of the Noldor."
That's w= onderful. I'm going to have to get my hands on that journal.
<= BR>

Delicious ideas to please the pickies= t eaters. Watch the video on A= OL Living.
-------------------------------1204404683-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1359 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60962 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 21:03:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 21:03:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.191) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 21:03:51 -0000 X-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b21so2856914nfd.47 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:03:49 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.78.122.16 with SMTP id u16mr12892103huc.11.1204405429579; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:03:49 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i8sm20347304nfh.1.2008.03.01.13.03.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:03:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47C9C4BA.9050509@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 22:03:54 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=5MA2e4Ce9T_vqWJejwdSpzDv2Qd0bysHulN9o-Q4XH5bX2fMNfCViLY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Dawn Felagund wrote: > On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Rhapsody wrote: >> I think it's either in HOME 10 or HOME 12 (I think the latter and its in >> the debate of Finwe & Miriel). I read & studied it extensively when I >> was writing my first installment of my Maglor novel when doing the >> NaNoWriMo, so I might have it somewhere, but just like Dawn at this very >> moment B2MEM and other RL stuff takes away a lot from free time, so I >> need to dig it up when things become less hectic for me. > > I recently collected quotes about Elven rebirth/reincarnation for a friend > who needed this information, so it's pretty fresh in my memory. I think the > section you're talking about is "The Converse of Manwe and Eru and later > conceptions of Elven reincarnation" from HoMe X. It basically refutes the > ideas of L&C from earlier in the same book. It starts on page 361 in my > copy. It's pretty long, so I won't reprint the whole thing here, but I will > if anyone is interested. Hmmm no :) The reason why I read that bit was not for reincarnation, its somewhere else and it had to do with Finwe and Miriel, the whole saga of Miriel not wanting to stay within her body, the Valar also chatting. Must be HOME XII. It must be some few pesky lines here and there which will feel like a needle in a haystack to find it! > PS-- Oshun ... I told you that you'd opened a can of worms! ;) It's not that bad, is it? I don't sense much disagreement here that usually comes with the opening of a can of worms ;) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1360 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18864 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 21:15:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 21:15:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 21:15:40 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE1558031 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 22:15:30 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 22:15:29 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 22:15:29 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <99123230.20080301221529@tlen.pl> To: Rhapsody In-Reply-To: <47C9C4BA.9050509@gmail.com> References: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> <47C9C4BA.9050509@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=xexQ4f3nGdeAw6fwLflFBUqXRs3Z1ursQ1WSJ4eOB_b-lq3OlRA X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, R> Hmmm no :) The reason why I read that bit was not for reincarnation, its R> somewhere else and it had to do with Finwe and Miriel, the whole saga of R> Miriel not wanting to stay within her body, the Valar also chatting. R> Must be HOME XII. "Later versions of of the Story of Finwe and Miriel" is in MR, I was quoting from there. If there is more on them in XII than not mentioned in index. Maybe in the "Shibboleth of Feanor" where if I remember well there is the version of Miriel leaving when Feanor was already old enough (teenager?), not right after giving him birth as in the Silmarillion. Anyway theres a bit about her in this text. >> PS-- Oshun ... I told you that you'd opened a can of worms! ;) R> It's not that bad, is it? I don't sense much disagreement here that R> usually comes with the opening of a can of worms ;) Rather interesting discussion which immediately brought us back to ME ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1361 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13074 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 21:22:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 21:22:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 21:22:36 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d6b.1f3c3343 (42809) for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 16:22:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 16:22:31 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204406551" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=5l1HIkVqSf9hLnaMqU0xIUMdQ_I6gBqTTueN0o9UEgo-NLauivfM X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204406551 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/2008 3:46:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: PS-- Oshun ... I told you that you'd opened a can of worms! ;) Hey! But its a great discussion. (The only thing is that I am now embarrassed since I am recognizing all of the quotations that people are citing--I have the attention span/memory of a housefly and am as lazy as a slug--but people's comments on them are as interesting as the original cites in this case.) **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204406551 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/1/2008 3:46:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com = writes:
PS-- Oshun ... I told you that = you'd opened a can of worms! ;)
=
Hey! But its a great discussion. (The only thing is that I am now&nbs= p;embarrassed since I am recognizing all of the quotations that peopl= e are citing--I have the attention span/memory of a housefly and am as lazy= as a slug--but people's comments on them are as interesting as the origin= al cites in this case.)



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204406551-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1362 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3984 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 21:24:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 21:24:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.182) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 21:24:33 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so4240427waf.20 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:24:32 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.77.1 with SMTP id e1mr2800281wal.103.1204406672602; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:24:32 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:24:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 16:24:32 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <99123230.20080301221529@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23579_11065390.1204406672591" References: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> <47C9C4BA.9050509@gmail.com> <99123230.20080301221529@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=t62MBClYAmjKfU6wugs47EDuXYKnSmX1cU6vlOSWAQIAWiinYHhi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_23579_11065390.1204406672591-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1363 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68837 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 22:21:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 22:21:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 22:21:31 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8EAE5802C for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 23:21:27 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 23:21:26 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 23:21:27 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1213827797.20080301232127@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <99123230.20080301221529@tlen.pl> References: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> <47C9C4BA.9050509@gmail.com> <99123230.20080301221529@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: The Halls of Mandos X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=dh92SpetU1AHyMBDYnQDwJ8O3jXTjI7BseWCwbdTHUrcRu7DN1M X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ladies and Gentlemen, just in case you haven't seen it - this should explain a lot of your doubts about the nature of the elven death... or maybe not ;) http://www.wladca.pl/Rivendell/galeria/books/remi/the_halls_of_mandos_by_sidhanniel.jpg/image_view_fullscreen (I hope I didn't link it before.) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1364 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67900 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 22:24:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 22:24:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.182) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 22:24:33 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id l24so10851111waf.22 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 14:24:33 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.103.1 with SMTP id a1mr13882183wac.45.1204410273062; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 14:24:33 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:24:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:24:33 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1213827797.20080301232127@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23676_21115431.1204410273056" References: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> <47C9C4BA.9050509@gmail.com> <99123230.20080301221529@tlen.pl> <1213827797.20080301232127@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] The Halls of Mandos X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hgr15wqo6xqt-0vgi0aAYmXdd17XfYZu0rVarczc7zFUelpFu7Je X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_23676_21115431.1204410273056-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1365 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63763 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 22:26:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 22:26:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 22:26:11 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d2e.17d8c0ab (42809) for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:25:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:25:49 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204410349" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] The Halls of Mandos X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=riaSHTC95dqVpMJhgee7AFcDbos2mXRBB9de1KvAm7k7ViXtWbo6 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204410349 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/2008 5:21:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: just in case you haven't seen it - this should explain a lot of your doubts about the nature of the elven death... or maybe not ;) OMG! Poor Finrod. He is really too nice to hang out with those two. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204410349 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/1/2008 5:21:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes= :
just in case you haven't seen it - t= his should explain a lot of your
doubts about the nature of the elven= death... or maybe not ;)
OMG! P= oor Finrod. He is really too nice to hang out with those two.
=


Delicious ideas to please the pickie= st eaters. Watch the video on = AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204410349-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1366 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68235 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 23:03:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 23:03:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 23:03:25 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869763E805E for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2008 00:03:24 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2008 00:03:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 00:03:23 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1052338514.20080302000323@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> <47C9C4BA.9050509@gmail.com> <99123230.20080301221529@tlen.pl> <1213827797.20080301232127@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] The Halls of Mandos X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=chP4nSe0okKwoKHg1Lss-B-SLyDyBT26DboARlKwwn-KtF8KehY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Dawn: DF> Oh, I love this! I've seen it before, but rereading it is always a joy! I do it sometimes for a better mood ;) DF> My poor namesake. I think you were very brave, Finrod. *pets* DF> Thanks, Sirielle, for the link! And here is the right link - credits are only in preview: http://www.wladca.pl/Rivendell/galeria/books/remi/the_halls_of_mandos_by_sidhanniel.jpg/view (though the link to Remi's gallery is quite misleading for she has removed all her galleries from web and I doubt she is checking any notes at dA). Oshun: hac> OMG! Poor Finrod. He is really too nice to hang out with those two. Evil half bros ;) There is another part to this one, not that funny though. But I haven't submitted it to the gallery. Uploading attachment would not be fair for people who read all on-line, so I'll link it later. Findar�to has his moment of laughter, too :) Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1367 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34026 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 23:32:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 23:32:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.168) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 23:32:00 -0000 X-Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id e2so877084ugf.36 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 15:31:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.78.122.16 with SMTP id u16mr13296882huc.11.1204414319818; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 15:31:59 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k9sm1374209nfh.29.2008.03.01.15.31.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 01 Mar 2008 15:31:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47C9E777.6020100@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:32:07 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> <47C9C4BA.9050509@gmail.com> <99123230.20080301221529@tlen.pl> <1213827797.20080301232127@tlen.pl> <1052338514.20080302000323@tlen.pl> In-Reply-To: <1052338514.20080302000323@tlen.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] The Halls of Mandos X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Fqbw6Y5x1aFmNdqmtPq-Zhjyr-HBS5qB-Zs6eLzY9MxV-oQIHFmdhOc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Sirielle wrote: > DF> My poor namesake. I think you were very brave, Finrod. *pets* > DF> Thanks, Sirielle, for the link! > > And here is the right link - credits are only in preview: > http://www.wladca.pl/Rivendell/galeria/books/remi/the_halls_of_mandos_by_sidhanniel.jpg/view > (though the link to Remi's gallery is quite misleading for she has removed all her > galleries from web and I doubt she is checking any notes at dA). She's banned from DA O-o Wow, I have seen her images before, but do you have any idea what happened? Rhapsody (hasn't been on DA for a while) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1368 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64932 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2008 23:41:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2008 23:41:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2008 23:41:01 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82AA23E8078 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2008 00:41:00 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2008 00:40:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 00:40:59 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1885937131.20080302004059@tlen.pl> To: Rhapsody In-Reply-To: <47C9E777.6020100@gmail.com> References: <47C9BB14.8020502@gmail.com> <47C9C4BA.9050509@gmail.com> <99123230.20080301221529@tlen.pl> <1213827797.20080301232127@tlen.pl> <1052338514.20080302000323@tlen.pl> <47C9E777.6020100@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] The Halls of Mandos X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=A7SmJSAbxF2RnDe-QF5oKK1ktm2jq29xGDhEWZklVU0yvTjTqHg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, R> She's banned from DA O-o Wow, I have seen her images before, but do you R> have any idea what happened? No, I don't. It has happened some months ago. I contacted her via Peter ( http://dauph.deviantart.com/ ), she is not coming back to net galleries anytime soon as he told me. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1369 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81497 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2008 15:38:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2008 15:38:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.102.103) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2008 15:38:04 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n20.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2008 15:38:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2008 15:38:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2008 15:38:04 -0000 Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 15:38:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Houseless elves (replacement of query sent without SUBJECT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=ExZOGS3aTReaDPcPw-j8RCcRv2a_GOiQUfLOqc8jmRl83N8 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 heartofoshun@... wrote: > > a good friend is writing a story which include= s a case of a > follower of the sons of Feanor becoming a houseless elf a= nd they taking over > other people's bodies. She wants my comments and I= really don't know if the > conception that a follower of the sons of Fe= anor could become a houseless elf > controlled by Sauron was AU or canon= . > Oshun > Hmmm I've skimmed the responses, so I'll go back to the orig= inal post for my take on houseless elves... It seems to me that in part 4= of LAC, Tolkien was messing about trying to incorporate the European trad= itions of spirits associated with wells/stones/trees ('tutelary spirits' i= s the term I believe) with houseless elves. Then he diverts into this bein= g 'wrong' and winds up with them under the control of Morgoth / Sauron and= able to possess people... So, your friend's idea has canon support to tha= t extent :) How far Tolkien would have wanted to pursue this, I'm not sur= e, since even thinking about it briefly lands you in some pretty murky te= rritory! Ofc, this is the same essay that has elves being reincarnated as = infants (Bad idea. Thank god that one was retracted!) Interestingly enough= - the essay explicity distinguishes between 'Lingerers' who have faded (b= ut are OK) and the 'Houseless' who have no bodies due to death (and are no= t OK at all)... Tricky thing to write - but your friend's thoughts are not= AU to my mind: "... the fea unbodied would flee in terror of the Shadow..= . unless it were already committed to the Darkness and passed then into i= ts dominion." (And on reading the long discussion - yay! Let's hear it for= redaction criticism... guessing what C. Tolkien meant is nearly as much = fun as guessing JRR's original thoughts ;P) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1370 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68851 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2008 16:47:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2008 16:47:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n32a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.211) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2008 16:47:42 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n32.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2008 16:47:42 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2008 16:47:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2008 16:47:42 -0000 Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 16:47:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1-3273365616-6672469893=:2" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=j86pcMTgkthmvtuVvKTFDVmWv6tH-aO1vbKIz1n_Wx9NYzVZS3VIEYt8 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --1-3273365616-6672469893=:2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >= > When I first started to write LOTR fanfiction, I was essentially told th= at > everything that wasn't a dreary or sappy re-wording of the published t= ext was > to be marked AU and I followed that practice for a while (that m= ade everything > I wrote AU). Then later I considered how narrow that was,= especially when I > realized that all those cute little Estel and oh-those= -wacky-twins stories > were not labeled AU. Or that there is a whole Eomer= /Lothiriel genre considered > semi-official canon based upon a girl who is = only a footnote with a birthdate > and those were not AU. *Snort!* The a= bove paragraph (so funny because it hits the target and then some) and your= previous remark that Tuor obtained his ticket to paradise by the virtue of= being really, really, really good-looking made me chortle in solidarity wi= th your views. First, I have a question in response to the question. Is A= U considered a negative label? If so, why? My observations lead me to concl= ude that for some writers and readers, it may very well be a less than desi= rable designation. Personally, I find that perplexing since as a reader, I= have found some of the more creative takes on Arda and its denizens to be = labeled as AU. So I don't look upon the AU label as a detriment (or even l= azy) - I see it as a feature! :^) My own rubric for AU is expansive. I co= nsider it to be any "what-if" scenario. I agree with oshun that a gap fill= er is not in and of itself AU, but it can be, I suppose, based on its suppo= sitions. But again, I emphasize that I do not consider AU to be a Bad Thing= (tm). > > Then, of course, there is always the argument that Tolkien would= n't approve. > Well, unfortunately he is dead and we can't ask him, althou= gh I will concede > that we can make certain broad assumptions about wheth= er a storyline might > strike a sour or pleasant chord with him, but still= that does not make a story > AU. He left the holes he left, we fill in th= e blanks, largely with great > love and respect for the wonderful world he= created. Heh. I don't write "engaging gap fillers" so I don't think I fi= ll in any holes. Although I certainly love the secondary world JRRT created= and respect him as a master storyteller, I'm not altogether respectful of = his views which infuse his writing. More accurately, I should say that I t= hink there are different ways of looking at his themes and these alternate = views in turn are what influences my own skewed take on Arda. But that rais= es an interesting point - does something that *might* rankle the original a= uthor count as AU? >It was always fascinating > to me that I spent so muc= h more time doing my homework than most of the > critics who call my stori= es AU. A description that I really like is "canon mindful." Overlaying ca= non into what might be deemed AU is analogous (in my mind) to JRRT using el= ements of nature (beech and birch trees, flowers, weather, rock, sky, and k= nown stars and constellations) to add authenticity to his secondary world. = His use of these makes it that much easier to immerse oneself into his "el= vish drama." Similarly, an author who knows and researches canon (doing th= at homework) and then applies it to a story that is arguably outside the bo= unds (by a little or a lot) of Tolkienian orthodoxy creates a very effectiv= e and palatable "what-if" that an imaginative reader can buy into, i.e., im= mersing her- or himself into *your* elvish drama including those labeled AU= . Speaking for myself, I don't think I write "canon-mindfully" in my AU ta= kes, but I do use canon. My interpretation of it may challenge more tradit= ional readers and I do have major "what-if's" of various sorts interwoven i= n the foundations of the pandemoniverse, hence the AU (not that there's any= thing wrong with that) label. >I have, however, found the world of Silmar= illion > writers far more tolerant. Absolutely! I wonder if there's somet= hing inherent about the way we look at the world which has made The Silmari= llion so attractive to us and links into that tolerance? Let's come full c= ircle and link the really really really good-looking Tuor with a fabulous A= U vision: Gandalf's Apprentice's The Judgment of Tuor acc= ompanied by Greywing's excellent and hilarious illustration. One of the be= auties of The Blue Book of Bilbo Baggins or Tales of the Forbidden Silmaril= lion is its combination of being "seriously AU" with its canonical t= idbits scattered throughout. > --1-3273365616-6672469893=:2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote:
> 
> When I first started to write LOTR fanfiction, I w= as essentially told that 
> everything that wasn't a dreary or = sappy re-wording of the published text was
> to  be marked AU a= nd I followed that practice for a while (that made everything
> I&nb= sp; wrote AU). Then later I considered how narrow that was, especially when= I 
> realized that all those cute little Estel and oh-those-wa= cky-twins stories
> were  not labeled AU. Or that there is a wh= ole Eomer/Lothiriel genre considered 
> semi-official canon bas= ed upon a girl who is only a footnote with a birthdate
>  and t= hose were not AU.

*Snort!* 

The above paragraph (so fun= ny because it hits the target and then some) and your previous remark that = Tuor obtained his ticket to paradise by the virtue of being really, really,= really good-looking made me chortle in solidarity with your views.<= br>
First, I have a question in response to the question.  Is AU co= nsidered a negative label? If so, why? My observations lead me to conclude = that for some writers and readers, it may very well be a less than desirabl= e designation.  Personally, I find that perplexing since as a reader, = I have found some of the more creative takes on Arda and its denizens to be= labeled as AU.  So I don't look upon the AU label as a detriment (or = even lazy) - I see it as a feature! :^)

My own rubric for AU = is expansive.  I consider it to be any "what-if" scenario.  I agr= ee with oshun that a gap filler is not in and of itself AU, but it can be, = I suppose, based on its suppositions. But again, I emphasize that I do not = consider AU to be a Bad Thing(tm).

> 
> Then, of cou= rse, there is always the argument that Tolkien wouldn't  approve.
= > Well, unfortunately he is dead and we can't ask him, although I will&n= bsp; concede
> that we can make certain broad assumptions about whet= her a storyline  might
> strike a sour or pleasant chord with h= im, but still that does  not make a story
> AU. He left the hol= es he left, we fill in the blanks, largely  with great
> love a= nd respect for the wonderful world he created.

Heh.  I don't wr= ite "engaging gap fillers" so I don't think I fill in any holes. Although I= certainly love the secondary world JRRT created and respect him as a maste= r storyteller, I'm not altogether respectful of his views which infu= se his writing.  More accurately, I should say that I think there are = different ways of looking at his themes and these alternate views in turn a= re what influences my own skewed take on Arda. But that raises an interesti= ng point - does something that *might* rankle the original author count as = AU?

>It was always  fascinating
> to me that I spent = so much more time doing my homework than most of  the
> critics= who call my stories AU.

A description that I really like is "canon = mindful."  Overlaying canon into what might be deemed AU is analogous = (in my mind) to JRRT using elements of nature (beech and birch trees, flowe= rs, weather, rock, sky, and known stars and constellations) to add authenti= city to his secondary world.  His use of these makes it that much easi= er to immerse oneself into his "elvish drama."  Similarly, an author w= ho knows and researches canon (doing that homework) and then applies it to = a story that is arguably outside the bounds (by a little or a lot) of Tolki= enian orthodoxy creates a very effective and palatable "what-if" that an im= aginative reader can buy into, i.e., immersing her- or himself into *your* = elvish drama including those labeled AU. 

Speaking for myself,= I don't think I write "canon-mindfully" in my AU takes, but I do use canon.  My interpretation of it may challenge more traditional reade= rs and I do have major "what-if's" of various sorts interwoven in the found= ations of the pandemoniverse, hence the AU (not that there's anything wr= ong with that) label.

>I have, however, found the world of&nb= sp; Silmarillion
> writers far more tolerant.

Absolutely!&nb= sp; I wonder if there's something inherent about the way we look at the wor= ld which has made The Silmarillion so attractive to us and links into that = tolerance?

Let's come full circle and link the really really real= ly good-looking Tuor with a fabulous AU vision: Gandalf's Apprentice's = The Judgment of Tuor accompanied by G= reywing's excellent and hilarious illustration.  One of the beauties o= f The Blue Book of Bilbo Baggins or Tales of the Forbidden Sil= marillion  is its combination of being "seriously AU" with its can= onical tidbits scattered throughout.
>
--1-3273365616-6672469893=:2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1371 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7996 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2008 17:26:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2008 17:26:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2008 17:26:55 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c4d.2d1c5b7c (42809) for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2008 12:26:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 12:26:40 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204478800" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=bL4bcHZ_BOdwLDdUVu3LxMOV47uqUkV7AsDSjuMrjX3MsCbUWSBz X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204478800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en My observations lead me to conclude that for some writers and readers, i= t may very well be a less than desirable designation. Personally, I find= that perplexing since as a reader, I have found some of the more creativ= e takes on Arda and its denizens to be labeled as AU. So I don't look up= on the AU label as a detriment (or even lazy) - I see it as a feature! := ^) I think for many readers and writers giving a fic an AU label is consi= dered a potential turnoff because in the world of bad!fics many writers s= lap an AU label on in order to churn out thousands of words of ungrammati= cal, puerile nonsense that has no relationship to Tolkien=E2=80=99s texts= except the use of many characters names and a few place names perhaps. T= he label does make the story much harder to sell to a more discerning aud= ience. The second problem with the label of AU is that it has been overus= ed and/or demanded by those who do not want to see any vision except thei= r own explored in any fanfics. It is also as often used as a warning as i= t is as a categorization. =E2=80=9CLeave me alone and don=E2=80=99t ask m= e to have read the texts. I told you it was AU!=E2=80=9D My own rubric f= or AU is expansive. I consider it to be any "what-if" scenario. I agree= with oshun that a gap filler is not in and of itself AU, but it can be, = I suppose, based on its suppositions. But again, I emphasize that I do no= t consider AU to be a Bad Thing(tm). Heh. I don't write "engaging gap fi= llers" so I don't think I fill in any holes. I=E2=80=99m not sure what= I think about my stories. I just know I find it more interesting to expl= ore, for example, the relationship of Fingon and Maedhros as a magnificent= love story set under stunningly dramatic circumstances than a friendship= fic with a sad ending. Although I certainly love the secondary world JR= RT created and respect him as a master storyteller, I'm not altogether re= spectful of his views which infuse his writing. More accurately, I shoul= d say that I think there are different ways of looking at his themes and = these alternate views in turn are what influences my own skewed take on A= rda. But that raises an interesting point - does something that *might* r= ankle the original author count as AU? My answer to that question is a s= imple =E2=80=9Cno.=E2=80=9D For me writing fanfic is the opportunity to gi= ve my spin on someone else's work. A description that I really like is "= canon mindful." Overlaying canon into what might be deemed AU is analogo= us (in my mind) to JRRT using elements of nature (beech and birch trees, = flowers, weather, rock, sky, and known stars and constellations) to add a= uthenticity to his secondary world. His use of these makes it that much = easier to immerse oneself into his "elvish drama." I used to label my = stories "AU, but canon mindful." But decided I was selling myself short a= nd giving additional, often underserved, authenticity to stories that exp= lored little or nothing new or challenging but simply recycled canon in an= unimaginative way. As though I accepted that my stories were worth less = and the writers who wrote the others (without an AU label) somehow had th= e rights to being the real thing and mine, therefore, were unserious. A = real AU story to me would change something dramatic. The points I was mak= ing yesterday--change a significant event or character and coming up with = a new or different outcome. Similarly, an author who knows and research= es canon (doing that homework) and then applies it to a story that is arg= uably outside the bounds (by a little or a lot) of Tolkienian orthodoxy c= reates a very effective and palatable "what-if" that an imaginative reade= r can buy into, i.e., immersing her- or himself into *your* elvish drama = including those labeled AU. That=E2=80=99s all well and good, except I = have heard a lot of people say, =E2=80=9CI don=E2=80=99t read AU. I want t= o recognize the author=E2=80=99s use of canon.=E2=80=9D I want to say if y= ou are interested in Silmarillion canon, read what I write and I can make= it live for you, while giving you a reason to read my story in addition = to reading the original. It=E2=80=99 s a twist on the story, not an abando= nment of canon. I think for many readers the label AU means canon doesn= =E2=80=99t matter. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch vi= deo on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-pi= cky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=3Daolcmp00300000002598) -------------------------------1204478800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en

My observations lead me to conclude that fo= r some writers and readers, it may very well be a less than desirable desi= gnation.  Personally, I find that perplexing since as a reader, I hav= e found some of the more creative takes on Arda and its denizens to be lab= eled as AU.  So I don't look upon the AU label as a detriment (or eve= n lazy) - I see it as a feature! :^)

I think for many= readers and writers giving a fic an AU label is considered a potential tu= rnoff because in the world of bad!fics many writers slap an AU label on in = order to churn out thousands of words of ungrammatical, puerile nonsense t= hat has no relationship to Tolkien=E2=80=99s texts except the use of many = characters names and a few place names perhaps. The label does make the st= ory much harder to sell to a more discerning audience.

The= second problem with the label of AU is that it has been overused and/or d= emanded by those who do not want to see any vision except their own explor= ed in any fanfics. It is also as often used as a warning as it is as a cat= egorization. =E2=80=9CLeave me alone and don=E2=80=99t ask me to have read= the texts. I told you it was AU!=E2=80=9D

My own rubric = for AU is expansive.  I consider it to be any "what-if" scenario.&nbs= p; I agree with oshun that a gap filler is not in and of itself AU, but it= can be, I suppose, based on its suppositions. But again, I emphasize that= I do not consider AU to be a Bad Thing(tm).

Heh. I don't w= rite "engaging gap fillers" so I don't think I fill in any holes.

I=E2=80=99m not sure what I think about my stories. I just kn= ow I find it more interesting to explore, for example, the relationship of= Fingon and Maedhros as a magnificent love story set under stunningly dram= atic circumstances than a friendship fic with a sad ending.

Although I certainly love the secondary world JRRT created and respec= t him as a master storyteller, I'm not altogether respectful of his views = which infuse his writing.  More accurately, I should say that I think= there are different ways of looking at his themes and these alternate vie= ws in turn are what influences my own skewed take on Arda. But that raises= an interesting point - does something that *might* rankle the original au= thor count as AU?

My answer to that question is a simp= le =E2=80=9Cno.=E2=80=9D For me writing fanfic is the opportunity to give = my spin on someone else's work.

A description that I really like = is "canon mindful."  Overlaying canon into what might be deemed AU is= analogous (in my mind) to JRRT using elements of nature (beech and birch = trees, flowers, weather, rock, sky, and known stars and constellations) to= add authenticity to his secondary world.  His use of these makes it = that much easier to immerse oneself into his "elvish drama." 

I used to label my stories "AU, but canon mindful." But dec= ided I was selling myself short and giving additional, often underserved,&= nbsp;authenticity to stories that explored little or nothing new or challe= nging but simply recycled canon in an unimaginative way. As though I accep= ted that my stories were worth less and the writers who wrote the others (= without an AU label) somehow= had the rights to being the real thing and mine, therefore, were unseriou= s.

A real AU story to me would change something dramatic. The points= I was making yesterday--change a significant event or character and comin= g up with a new or different outcome.

Similarly, an author who kn= ows and researches canon (doing that homework) and then applies it to a st= ory that is arguably outside the bounds (by a little or a lot) of Tolkienia= n orthodoxy creates a very effective and palatable "what-if" that an imagi= native reader can buy into, i.e., immersing her- or himself into *your* el= vish drama including those labeled AU. 

That=E2=80=99s all well and good, e= xcept I have heard a lot of people say, =E2=80=9CI don=E2=80=99t read AU. I= want to recognize the author=E2=80=99s use of canon.=E2=80=9D I want to s= ay if you are interested in Silmarillion canon, read what I write and I ca= n make it live for you, while giving you a reason to read my story in addi= tion to reading the original. It=E2=80=99s a twist on the story, not an ab= andonment of canon. I think for many readers the label AU means canon does= n=E2=80=99t matter.



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
-------------------------------1204478800-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1372 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18901 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2008 03:13:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2008 03:13:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ik-out-1112.google.com) (66.249.90.181) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2008 03:13:25 -0000 X-Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c29so4965917ika.2 for ; Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:13:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.55.1 with SMTP id h1mr15581862wak.69.1204514000172; Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:13:20 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Mar 2008 19:13:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 22:13:20 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_27576_23317986.1204514000158" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month :: Birth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=qkme-KZ7hQ_QQ660_hWrQ6AH1O_OpVWx2VRxBM5OMeh_9JX9CL19 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_27576_23317986.1204514000158-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1373 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24168 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2008 17:47:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2008 17:47:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2008 17:47:11 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c01.2ecb7ad8 (42809) for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:46:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:46:34 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204566393" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Oshun Recommediation: Fanfic survey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=rPcqp0ytEmysTDjzVv8eYuHIqw-SQAjjPpqqklJFiuRdcX-tpeCy X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204566393 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This survey showed up on my lj today. I would encourage people to fill it out, mainly because I wouldn't want the woman's only results to be Harry Potter (not that there is anything wrong with that!). I would, of course, especially like to see some Silmarillion participation. Warning: In addition to the expected general questions, it requires one to list a few favorite stories and favorite authors. (If I was able to do that, I think other people should be also. It wasn't actually as hard as I thought it would be to chose.) A master's student at Georgetown is working on fan fiction for her thesis. (It looks to be very legitimate and is vouched for by the university.) Here's the survey. She needs as many people from as many fandoms as possible to complete it so that the diversity of fan culture is represented. The link: _http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=egL8uDC_2flsSivLFSB7eTGw_3d_3d_ (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=egL8uDC_2flsSivLFSB7eTGw_3d_3d) P.S. If you have questions/concerns, you can email her at kem82 @ georgetown.edu. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1204566393 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
This survey showe= d up on my lj today. I would encourage people to fill it out, mainly becau= se I wouldn't want the woman's only results to be Harry Potter (not that t= here is anything wrong with that!). I would, of course, especially li= ke to see some Silmarillion participation.
 
War= ning: In addition to the expected general questions, it requires one to li= st a few favorite stories and favorite authors. (If I was able to do that, = I think other people should be also. It wasn't actually as hard as I thoug= ht it would be to chose.)

3D"[image]

A mast= er's student at Georgetown is working on fan fiction for her thesis. (It l= ooks to be very legitimate and is vouched for by the university.) Here's t= he survey. She needs as many people from as many fandoms as poss= ible to complete it so that the diversity of fan culture is represented. T= he link:
http://www.sur= veymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=3DegL8uDC_2flsSivLFSB7eTGw_3d_3d

= P.S. If you have questions/concerns, you can email her at kem82 @ georget= own.edu.




It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money &= Finance.
-------------------------------1204566393-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1374 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34421 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2008 18:06:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2008 18:06:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.96) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2008 18:06:40 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 23236 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2008 18:06:39 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: AKBSsIYVM1mlz9h7pA19vJZJQnFVloYvRTcqf_Ady5F3Xr6IC_s9d1P_B6IBB21OEQ-- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:06:39 PST Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 10:06:39 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2131280417-1204567599=:18640" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <571501.18640.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Oshun Recommediation: Fanfic survey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=aS_znglfN05e4jvV_DJaDkgs7hbhwUeIs49L-NmUPokmKYJfbw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-2131280417-1204567599=:18640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit no free cash and prizes for filling it out? Bummer. heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: This survey showed up on my lj today. I would encourage people to fill it out, mainly because I wouldn't want the woman's only results to be Harry Potter (not that there is anything wrong with that!). I would, of course, especially like to see some Silmarillion participation. Warning: In addition to the expected general questions, it requires one to list a few favorite stories and favorite authors. (If I was able to do that, I think other people should be also. It wasn't actually as hard as I thought it would be to chose.) A master's student at Georgetown is working on fan fiction for her thesis. (It looks to be very legitimate and is vouched for by the university.) Here's the survey. She needs as many people from as many fandoms as possible to complete it so that the diversity of fan culture is represented. The link: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=egL8uDC_2flsSivLFSB7eTGw_3d_3d P.S. If you have questions/concerns, you can email her at kem82 @ georgetown.edu. --------------------------------- It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-2131280417-1204567599=:18640 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit no free cash and prizes for filling it out?  Bummer.

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
This survey showed up on my lj today. I would encourage people to fill it out, mainly because I wouldn't want the woman's only results to be Harry Potter (not that there is anything wrong with that!). I would, of course, especially like to see some Silmarillion participation.
 
Warning: In addition to the expected general questions, it requires one to list a few favorite stories and favorite authors. (If I was able to do that, I think other people should be also. It wasn't actually as hard as I thought it would be to chose.)

[image]

A master's student at Georgetown is working on fan fiction for her thesis. (It looks to be very legitimate and is vouched for by the university.) Here's the survey. She needs as many people from as many fandoms as possible to complete it so that the diversity of fan culture is represented. The link:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=egL8uDC_2flsSivLFSB7eTGw_3d_3d

P.S. If you have questions/concerns, you can email her at kem82 @ georgetown.edu.







~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-2131280417-1204567599=:18640-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1375 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83218 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2008 18:11:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2008 18:11:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2008 18:11:37 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c22.2eea25cb (42809) for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:11:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:11:28 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204567887" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Oshun Recommediation: Fanfic survey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=JTeR3M2tcK4infHD5G2okTCyXFCcqp1IQYXNyFfSz70rr9vr35Rx X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204567887 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/3/2008 1:07:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: no free cash and prizes for filling it out? Bummer. Shame on you! This is in the greater interest of SCIENCE! **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1204567887 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/3/2008 1:07:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com wr= ites:

no free cash = and prizes for filling it out?  Bummer.

Shame on you! This is in the g= reater interest of SCIENCE!



-------------------------------1204567887-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1376 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8100 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2008 18:21:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2008 18:21:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2008 18:21:39 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44494748070 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:21:28 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:21:27 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:21:30 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <70239970.20080303192130@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Oshun Recommediation: Fanfic survey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=nUbNV7SyxZ0CSFchdp5D4hiDcrCgQLFaLNQwhUA_5_8L6g2KpMI X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle But I can't choose the one fav author! This was a trap, you said a few. Now I have to choose one. Trrrricky! :/ I shall appoint myself to avoid any misjudging ;) After rethinking it - wouldn't it be truth? Of course I'm not going to do that. Damn. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1377 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93324 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2008 18:26:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2008 18:26:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2008 18:26:58 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.be1.2e992a9c (42809) for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:26:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:26:25 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204568785" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Oshun Recommediation: Fanfic survey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=cWgAIXe_VQmF5HnV-j-qmwYC-dU5fWImj3khIYlSoO04ozPsHhEW X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204568785 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/3/2008 1:22:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: But I can't choose the one fav author! This was a trap, you said a few. Now I have to choose one. Trrrricky! :/ Actually, you don't have to choose one (that would have killed me--the one I think is the absolute best writer technically, the one with the best chracterization, or the one with the best plotlines, or the one that sticks in my mind and affected me the most emotionally, or the one that writes my favorite characters?). You get to pick a few. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1204568785 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/3/2008 1:22:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes= :
But I can't choose the one fav autho= r! This was a trap, you said a
few. Now I have to choose one. Trrrric= ky! :/

Actually, you don= 't have to choose one (that would have killed me--the one I think is the a= bsolute best writer technically, the one with the best chracterization, or= the one with the best plotlines, or the one that sticks in my mind and af= fected me the most emotionally, or the one that writes my favorite charact= ers?). You get to pick a few.
 
 



-------------------------------1204568785-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1378 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77302 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2008 18:55:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2008 18:55:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2008 18:55:00 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 969433E80C3 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:54:55 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:54:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:54:56 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1711960580.20080303195456@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Oshun Recommediation: Fanfic survey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=mmCC0VA1a0NBW42fF7FLXRsI88L_KngewIPyZelGOUVBTyOExT0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle hac> Actually, you don't have to choose one I do: "Also, thinking of these two or three fandoms, please list a favorite author in each. (Again, if you only have two fandoms, just leave three blank.)" ;) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1379 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7766 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2008 18:58:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2008 18:58:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2008 18:58:36 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bc2.229d4f5d (42809) for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:58:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:58:02 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1204570682" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Oshun Recommediation: Fanfic survey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ksxk6eJ3__P0MN08Jx3jBFQP0OY51kh6WvVWb-4YI6F2OSGJ1Sp2 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1204570682 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/3/2008 1:55:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: I do: "Also, thinking of these two or three fandoms, please list a favorite author in each. (Again, if you only have two fandoms, just leave three blank.)" ;) OMG! You are so right. I was thinking about the question above. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1204570682 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/3/2008 1:55:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes= :
I do:

"Also, thinking of thes= e two or three fandoms, please list a favorite
author in each. (Again= , if you only have two fandoms, just leave three blank.)"

;)
<= /FONT>
OMG! You are so right. I was thi= nking about the question above.



-------------------------------1204570682-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1380 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64145 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2008 19:58:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2008 19:58:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.114) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2008 19:58:21 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 67088 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2008 19:58:20 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: BjKs2CQVM1lTKhfNPqiFSnoOlRS0L6fl4YZ_XqCgCyFQ6vocn_UaVqV_nGMMJvJP9YvSow2myxKYunc.X1Kl4qXrX5MWFGUxT7ADXhq4M6eaknUTPvw- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Mar 2008 11:58:20 PST Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:58:20 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1163494353-1204574300=:60892" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <822657.60892.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Oshun Recommediation: Fanfic survey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=ksL-3Sacx55cbBgkwsVHRVjsL-3QkJOVS1uS-c18nGR603BbvWJUpy8 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1163494353-1204574300=:60892 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Darn, does this mean I have to pick a new topic for MY thesis? ;) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1163494353-1204574300=:60892 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Darn, does this mean I have to pick a new topic for MY thesis? ;)


~T�rion

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1163494353-1204574300=:60892-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1381 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38617 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2008 01:23:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2008 01:23:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO gv-out-0910.google.com) (216.239.58.187) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2008 01:23:38 -0000 X-Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id s4so402187gve.21 for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:23:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.134.20 with SMTP id h20mr1103394wad.91.1204593817352; Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:23:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:23:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:23:37 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_32928_32182925.1204593817369" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-ezGLyWDmBlFPhrh28hRyRDCZWgBhJYQqwJVO5AufyAHvo1I3fpH X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_32928_32182925.1204593817369-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1382 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31416 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2008 02:11:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2008 02:11:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO gv-out-0910.google.com) (216.239.58.190) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2008 02:11:15 -0000 X-Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id n8so448919gve.30 for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2008 18:11:14 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.33.1 with SMTP id l1mr1126537waj.137.1204596673735; Mon, 03 Mar 2008 18:11:13 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:11:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 21:11:13 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_33069_28974116.1204596673747" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=boOeEe8vr7lsPaSGBzs38zd908uPItsO8Lj2C-cfkPVb434y9PC2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_33069_28974116.1204596673747-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1383 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46763 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2008 03:10:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2008 03:10:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2008 03:10:15 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so1067707waf.20 for ; Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:10:14 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.89.1 with SMTP id m1mr3447151wab.77.1204686613941; Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:10:13 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:10:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:10:13 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3097_17199806.1204686613943" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month :: Creation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MpJJBz0lSkV-866CkKdssckEBWmsIn3YtWkJ3aNyGzy9AS2LIfq8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_3097_17199806.1204686613943-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1384 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50324 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 03:09:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 03:09:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.190) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 03:09:16 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a43so426224rne.10 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:09:16 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.178.1 with SMTP id a1mr1139780waf.135.1204859356059; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:09:16 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 19:09:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 22:09:16 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_15372_31240036.1204859356072" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month :: Discovery X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=E95BSpwTi9ieEZug4NmKLcH4xDhM6AYFdfc25rmC9S8NB7UAosNn X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_15372_31240036.1204859356072-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1385 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94835 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 03:12:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 03:12:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.191) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 03:12:32 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id v46so1297862rnb.5 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:12:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.111.1 with SMTP id o1mr1187937wam.87.1204859551036; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:12:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 19:12:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 22:12:31 -0500 To: SWG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_15390_3476231.1204859551046" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Back to Middle-earth Month :: Discovery X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=GmO1GBGfypYxw_XzL0mCE_TL-k9pkazkKGJRqs0zkkk7WkTG3KwS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_15390_3476231.1204859551046-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1386 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60505 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 16:09:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 16:09:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n11d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.60) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 16:09:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 16:09:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 16:09:06 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:09:06 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=YZRNIcwzSFSq_qOBYckLySqY9WH9v3HRf7ez26A4Wfi0VEvF3Q X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic Dawn was so kind to point me in the direction of this wonderful debate. (Ma= y I use this opportunity to thank you for certain extravagant compliments y= ou paid me in connection with this discussion? There were hot cheeks and po= ssibly even some blushing.) Anyway. AU. I keep saying that when I want to= read canon I tend to pick up some books written by one J.R.R. Tolkien (or = The Original Author of any other fandom, really). --- In SilmarillionWrit= ersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > >= First, I have a question in response to the question. Is AU considered a = negative label? If so, why? Well, among the canatics of LOTR fandom "AU" = is certainly regarded as a negative label. I think there are several reaso= ns for that and I'm not going to mince words. One reason I can think of is= a mixture of inferiority complex coupled with the mad urge to control othe= rs, jealousy and lack imagination. There are canatics out there who would = have more luck wringing blood from a rock than coming up with an original s= tory based on the premise or the world of the original author. And the aut= hors who blithely dance around the fringes of canon, who grasp the heart of= canon and turn it inside out - often making the true qualities of canon sh= ine even more in the process - I think they must be very scary for people w= ho like fanfic for the security of canon. Make no mistake, I LOVE me my ca= non. I'm first and foremost an o-fic writer. If I don't love canon, if I am= not interested in it, if I am not inspired by it, if I do not desire to cr= eatively interpret the original, I would work on my current original novel = (and there is -always- a current original novel). Additionally to that mix= ture mentioned above, I think a certain culture of entitlement and criticis= m has sprung up in the online world. We're all of us critics and judges. It= is not enough to leave a discerning comment. No. It has to be a "review" a= nd it needs to "contain" criticism. So what can you criticise in a fanfic = story? Well, one of the easiest things to criticise is how it doesn't match= the original. That's MUCH easier than going into the details of plot, char= acterisation and style. Criticsing a story because Legolas would never fall= in love with a human girl or because Tolkien's Elves would never have unma= rried sex is an easy cop-out. You can point to the original and say "But To= lkien said/didn't say ..." But faced with the label "AU" you get a tiny pr= oblem there. Because that nifty little label takes away this easy way of cr= iticising and flaming. In consequence, AU has to be of inferior quality per= se. Thus, canon-fanatics are able to regain a certain superiority again. = Then there's the strange bad!fic phobia originating at FFNet, my beloved "P= it of Voles". The criticism of AU as a genre is linked with the crusade ag= ainst bad!fic. (Teenaged girls write AUs that contain pink-haired silver-e= yed heroines that ride unicorns to the rescue of Legolas and then drag him = off kicking and screaming (in the throes of lust, of course) into the sunse= t. Such infantile enjoyment of books, movies or pretty men must - of course= - be curbed from the start. We can't have that, bad!fic should never ever = be posted.) The ubiquitous presence of bad!fic (AUs are often bad!fic, we = want to read good fic, if you write AU you encourage bad!fic) is one of the= arguments I've seen used again and again to justify prejudices against AU.= Of course that rather begs the question how a discerning adult can possib= ly fail to realise that a story falls into this category based on three sim= ple elements: the title of the story, the penname of the author, and last b= ut not least, the summary. Okay - so maybe I'm a genius (which I rather d= oubt *snork*) - but I've been reading fanfic since 2004 and I have *never* = walked blind into bad!fic. Hmpf. > But that raises an interesting point - = does something that *might* > rankle the original author count as AU? > I= think another part of the AU arguments is the desire of human beings to co= ntrol others. I mean, we're social beings. We instinctively create communi= ties and in these communities we set up "rules", informal and formal rules.= AU - canon, the author's wishes, those elements can serve to draw lines in= the proverbial sand. Rules that ultimately say that's "us" and that's "the= m". My experience with LOTR/Silm fandom is that it's very formally structu= red, with very inflexible rules. There are many stable sub-communities and = the AU/canon question seems to be a way to distinguish them from each other= . The "us" vs. "them" question seems more important than in other fandoms, = too. Hobbits vs. Elves, Slash vs. Gen. Silm vs. LOTR etc. In other fandoms= the fault lines are different. For example, due to its development HP fand= om is much more AU friendly. Canon is split multiple times between the diff= erent volumes and additionally between the books and the movies. Now that t= he last book is published, that may change of course. The issue of authori= al approval or more general, the weight of the author's intent, is a hot to= pic over there, too, however. I think some people seek the security of a v= oice of authority. And afaik there are many scholars of English literature = arguing about whether or not authorial intent matters where the interpretat= ion of a piece of literature is concerned. Personally, I'm always curious = - about first drafts, authorial intention before and after the fact ... But= I also think that when it comes down to it, a story has to stand and fall = on its own. And for my own writing ... I write what I want to write. The i= dea that I might refrain from writing something because of the possible dis= approval of readers or the original author feels very strange to me. If the= orignal author generally tolerates fanfic, and I feel like writing fanfic,= I'll do it. And I'll write the story the way I feel it needs to be written= . Labels, such as canon or AU or crossover or whatever, they are of no con= cern to me at all. The story comes first. Uh... I'm very sorry for ramblin= g like that (it's all Dawn's fault). Thank you for a very interesting disc= ussion! *throws in waaaay more than her allotted two cents, slinks away* = Juno *** "Sanity is just a one trick pony. You only get one trick. Ration= al thought. But when you're good and crazy, the sky's the limit!" - The Tic= k From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1387 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 685 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 16:46:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 16:46:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.188) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 16:46:12 -0000 X-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c7so375810nfi.35 for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:46:11 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.78.183.8 with SMTP id g8mr4426157huf.39.1204908371304; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:46:11 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o36sm2377788hub.28.2008.03.07.08.46.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:46:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47D17154.8080401@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 17:46:12 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=KjQ5idWjlh8HMj9pBXtp2LG3lNYNv_e-rcRy2ApkTEabgaWPNzMOdjc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard JunoMagic wrote: Hi Juno! > Dawn was so kind to point me in the direction of this wonderful > debate. (May I use this opportunity to thank you for certain > extravagant compliments you paid me in connection with this > discussion? There were hot cheeks and possibly even some blushing.) > > Anyway. AU. > > I keep saying that when I want to read canon I tend to pick up some > books written by one J.R.R. Tolkien (or The Original Author of any > other fandom, really). > I've read it all and I nodded often yes, feeling immensely happy that I do not frequently visit the Pit of Voles. A friend of mine recently said that her work probably got labeled as bad!fic or crack!fic made me go like: wth? I told her that her work, even though she says its probably AU does not deserve such treatment. Actually something about the fact that some folks have huge control issues had me going like: you are so damn right about that and I couldn't agree more. > I think some people seek the security of a voice of authority. And > afaik there are many scholars of English literature arguing about > whether or not authorial intent matters where the interpretation of a > piece of literature is concerned. Well yes, it is a difficult topic, being a writer of OF myself. Simply because I can see both sides of the coin, more on that a few lines below. > Personally, I'm always curious - about first drafts, authorial > intention before and after the fact ... But I also think that when it > comes down to it, a story has to stand and fall on its own. Yeps. I always compared it to raising a kid that at a certain point you have to learn to let go, let it stand on its own and hoping you did enough for it :) In the mean time: yes it's hard, but its a process. > And for my own writing ... I write what I want to write. The idea that > I might refrain from writing something because of the possible > disapproval of readers or the original author feels very strange to > me. If the orignal author generally tolerates fanfic, and I feel like > writing fanfic, I'll do it. And I'll write the story the way I feel it > needs to be written. Well yes, that's me too. However I can imagine that newcomers can be easily intimidated by people who have control issues. It takes a while before many can say what we embrace as you wrote above. Then there is another matter that some writers have a need for receiving reviews, which is another can of worms at itself, but it still influence their behaviour towards labeling their stories or deciding how to write stories. Or how they deal with receiving crit... > Labels, such as canon or AU or crossover or whatever, they are of no > concern to me at all. The story comes first. I read or lets say, I used to read anything I'd get my hands on (except Horror, well written horror gives me nightmares). RL has not been kind to me of late, so my ff reading is almost zero. Still when I have time, I ignore an AU when its slapped on it. Actually, it got me thinking a few days ago: isn't all FF technically an AU on the original work ;) > *throws in waaaay more than her allotted two cents, slinks away* Thank you for sharing your thoughts, it actually summed up a lot on how I think about it too, so thanks for wording it so spot on! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1388 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92968 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 16:47:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 16:47:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.97) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 16:47:08 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 77599 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2008 16:47:07 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: FuwrldEVM1m0PuUUuCBNxWBjl92cvreKnFdAKYC.hh9CPRpvEWeSzrwh9dv7lo1.loSrrmnptkCiNZkpq_R3QJzIlKijmWNCMUU5xqzz4PIVzSGvWz0VaLr0a8_UZM2wwmfMhwYRMynyGnY- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:47:07 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:47:07 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-672831327-1204908427=:77302" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <830780.77302.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=lbUebjSImsQ0qhLbpPvqgUND82Jv5Od78daeNRxj08Fjf4Sekg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-672831327-1204908427=:77302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree that alot of people associate AU with badfic but that is in part to the very large number of writers who throw canon out the window and use the 'Its AU' argument to justify things that they just wanted to change. Like the writer that makes Elrohir, Elladan and Aragorn the same age or Haldir saves Celebrian from the orcs while the twins huddled terrified. They basically go against what is loved about the books completely. Peter Jackson did it to Glorfindel, the Grey Company, and others and true book fans were enraged. But he was not forced to say it was an AU of LOTR. There is creative license in fanfic as a rule but you shouldn't go against the grain of the whole LOTR concept and when someone doesn't like it scream its AU as a defense. If you change something and you know it will bother some quite a bit, be prepared to back it up with solid reasoning as to why it was needed to be changed for your fanfic. Granted - the reader still might not like it but they will respect you alot better than if you say 'Its AU" and leave it at that. When I wrote a story and killed Legolas off in the prologue (and pretty much the rest of the fellowship) I knew I was going to get some bad feedback on that. But I good reasons for what I did and why it had to be that way for my fic. I'm sure some people stopped reading it anyway. But the ones that stuck around had a chance to say 'ahhhh now I get why she did that!' Anyway - that's my two cents. JunoMagic wrote: Dawn was so kind to point me in the direction of this wonderful debate. (May I use this opportunity to thank you for certain extravagant compliments you paid me in connection with this discussion? There were hot cheeks and possibly even some blushing.) Anyway. AU. I keep saying that when I want to read canon I tend to pick up some books written by one J.R.R. Tolkien (or The Original Author of any other fandom, really). --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > > First, I have a question in response to the question. Is AU considered a negative label? If so, why? Well, among the canatics of LOTR fandom "AU" is certainly regarded as a negative label. I think there are several reasons for that and I'm not going to mince words. One reason I can think of is a mixture of inferiority complex coupled with the mad urge to control others, jealousy and lack imagination. There are canatics out there who would have more luck wringing blood from a rock than coming up with an original story based on the premise or the world of the original author. And the authors who blithely dance around the fringes of canon, who grasp the heart of canon and turn it inside out - often making the true qualities of canon shine even more in the process - I think they must be very scary for people who like fanfic for the security of canon. Make no mistake, I LOVE me my canon. I'm first and foremost an o-fic writer. If I don't love canon, if I am not interested in it, if I am not inspired by it, if I do not desire to creatively interpret the original, I would work on my current original novel (and there is -always- a current original novel). Additionally to that mixture mentioned above, I think a certain culture of entitlement and criticism has sprung up in the online world. We're all of us critics and judges. It is not enough to leave a discerning comment. No. It has to be a "review" and it needs to "contain" criticism. So what can you criticise in a fanfic story? Well, one of the easiest things to criticise is how it doesn't match the original. That's MUCH easier than going into the details of plot, characterisation and style. Criticsing a story because Legolas would never fall in love with a human girl or because Tolkien's Elves would never have unmarried sex is an easy cop-out. You can point to the original and say "But Tolkien said/didn't say ..." But faced with the label "AU" you get a tiny problem there. Because that nifty little label takes away this easy way of criticising and flaming. In consequence, AU has to be of inferior quality per se. Thus, canon-fanatics are able to regain a certain superiority again. Then there's the strange bad!fic phobia originating at FFNet, my beloved "Pit of Voles". The criticism of AU as a genre is linked with the crusade against bad!fic. (Teenaged girls write AUs that contain pink-haired silver-eyed heroines that ride unicorns to the rescue of Legolas and then drag him off kicking and screaming (in the throes of lust, of course) into the sunset. Such infantile enjoyment of books, movies or pretty men must - of course - be curbed from the start. We can't have that, bad!fic should never ever be posted.) The ubiquitous presence of bad!fic (AUs are often bad!fic, we want to read good fic, if you write AU you encourage bad!fic) is one of the arguments I've seen used again and again to justify prejudices against AU. Of course that rather begs the question how a discerning adult can possibly fail to realise that a story falls into this category based on three simple elements: the title of the story, the penname of the author, and last but not least, the summary. Okay - so maybe I'm a genius (which I rather doubt *snork*) - but I've been reading fanfic since 2004 and I have *never* walked blind into bad!fic. Hmpf. > But that raises an interesting point - does something that *might* > rankle the original author count as AU? > I think another part of the AU arguments is the desire of human beings to control others. I mean, we're social beings. We instinctively create communities and in these communities we set up "rules", informal and formal rules. AU - canon, the author's wishes, those elements can serve to draw lines in the proverbial sand. Rules that ultimately say that's "us" and that's "them". My experience with LOTR/Silm fandom is that it's very formally structured, with very inflexible rules. There are many stable sub-communities and the AU/canon question seems to be a way to distinguish them from each other. The "us" vs. "them" question seems more important than in other fandoms, too. Hobbits vs. Elves, Slash vs. Gen. Silm vs. LOTR etc. In other fandoms the fault lines are different. For example, due to its development HP fandom is much more AU friendly. Canon is split multiple times between the different volumes and additionally between the books and the movies. Now that the last book is published, that may change of course. The issue of authorial approval or more general, the weight of the author's intent, is a hot topic over there, too, however. I think some people seek the security of a voice of authority. And afaik there are many scholars of English literature arguing about whether or not authorial intent matters where the interpretation of a piece of literature is concerned. Personally, I'm always curious - about first drafts, authorial intention before and after the fact ... But I also think that when it comes down to it, a story has to stand and fall on its own. And for my own writing ... I write what I want to write. The idea that I might refrain from writing something because of the possible disapproval of readers or the original author feels very strange to me. If the orignal author generally tolerates fanfic, and I feel like writing fanfic, I'll do it. And I'll write the story the way I feel it needs to be written. Labels, such as canon or AU or crossover or whatever, they are of no concern to me at all. The story comes first. Uh... I'm very sorry for rambling like that (it's all Dawn's fault). Thank you for a very interesting discussion! *throws in waaaay more than her allotted two cents, slinks away* Juno *** "Sanity is just a one trick pony. You only get one trick. Rational thought. But when you're good and crazy, the sky's the limit!" - The Tick ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-672831327-1204908427=:77302 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I agree that alot of people associate AU with badfic but that is in part to the very large number of writers who throw canon out the window and use the 'Its AU' argument to justify things that they just wanted to change. Like the writer that makes Elrohir, Elladan and Aragorn the same age or Haldir saves Celebrian from the orcs while the twins huddled terrified. They basically go against what is loved about the books completely. Peter Jackson did it to Glorfindel, the Grey Company, and others and true book fans were enraged. But he was not forced to say it was an AU of LOTR. There is creative license in fanfic as a rule but you shouldn't go against the grain of the whole LOTR concept and when someone doesn't like it scream its AU as a defense. If you change something and you know it will bother some quite a bit, be prepared to back it up with solid reasoning as to why it was needed to be changed for your fanfic. Granted - the reader still might not like it but they will respect you alot better than if you say 'Its AU" and leave it at that. When I wrote a story and killed Legolas off in the prologue (and pretty much the rest of the fellowship) I knew I was going to get some bad feedback on that. But I good reasons for what I did and why it had to be that way for my fic. I'm sure some people stopped reading it anyway. But the ones that stuck around had a chance to say 'ahhhh now I get why she did that!'
 
Anyway - that's my two cents.

JunoMagic wrote:
Dawn was so kind to point me in the direction of this wonderful
debate. (May I use this opportunity to thank you for certain
extravagant compliments you paid me in connection with this
discussion? There were hot cheeks and possibly even some blushing.)

Anyway. AU.

I keep saying that when I want to read canon I tend to pick up some
books written by one J.R.R. Tolkien (or The Original Author of any
other fandom, really).

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213"
...> wrote:
>
>
> First, I have a question in response to the question. Is AU
considered a negative label? If so, why?

Well, among the canatics of LOTR fandom "AU" is certainly regarded as
a negative label.

I think there are several reasons for that and I'm not going to mince
words.

One reason I can think of is a mixture of inferiority complex coupled
with the mad urge to control others, jealousy and lack imagination.

There are canatics out there who would have more luck wringing blood
from a rock than coming up with an original story based on the premise
or the world of the original author.

And the authors who blithely dance around the fringes of canon, who
grasp the heart of canon and turn it inside out - often making the
true qualities of canon shine even more in the process - I think they
must be very scary for people who like fanfic for the security of canon.

Make no mistake, I LOVE me my canon. I'm first and foremost an o-fic
writer. If I don't love canon, if I am not interested in it, if I am
not inspired by it, if I do not desire to creatively interpret the
original, I would work on my current original novel (and there is
-always- a current original novel).

Additionally to that mixture mentioned above, I think a certain
culture of entitlement and criticism has sprung up in the online
world. We're all of us critics and judges. It is not enough to leave a
discerning comment. No. It has to be a "review" and it needs to
"contain" criticism.

So what can you criticise in a fanfic story? Well, one of the easiest
things to criticise is how it doesn't match the original. That's MUCH
easier than going into the details of plot, characterisation and
style. Criticsing a story because Legolas would never fall in love
with a human girl or because Tolkien's Elves would never have
unmarried sex is an easy cop-out. You can point to the original and
say "But Tolkien said/didn't say ..."

But faced with the label "AU" you get a tiny problem there. Because
that nifty little label takes away this easy way of criticising and
flaming. In consequence, AU has to be of inferior quality per se.
Thus, canon-fanatics are able to regain a certain superiority again.

Then there's the strange bad!fic phobia originating at FFNet, my
beloved "Pit of Voles".

The criticism of AU as a genre is linked with the crusade against bad!fic.

(Teenaged girls write AUs that contain pink-haired silver-eyed
heroines that ride unicorns to the rescue of Legolas and then drag him
off kicking and screaming (in the throes of lust, of course) into the
sunset. Such infantile enjoyment of books, movies or pretty men must -
of course - be curbed from the start. We can't have that, bad!fic
should never ever be posted.)

The ubiquitous presence of bad!fic (AUs are often bad!fic, we want to
read good fic, if you write AU you encourage bad!fic) is one of the
arguments I've seen used again and again to justify prejudices against AU.

Of course that rather begs the question how a discerning adult can
possibly fail to realise that a story falls into this category based
on three simple elements: the title of the story, the penname of the
author, and last but not least, the summary.

Okay - so maybe I'm a genius (which I rather doubt *snork*) - but I've
been reading fanfic since 2004 and I have *never* walked blind into
bad!fic. Hmpf.

> But that raises an interesting point - does something that *might*
> rankle the original author count as AU?
>

I think another part of the AU arguments is the desire of human beings
to control others.

I mean, we're social beings. We instinctively create communities and
in these communities we set up "rules", informal and formal rules. AU
- canon, the author's wishes, those elements can serve to draw lines
in the proverbial sand. Rules that ultimately say that's "us" and
that's "them".

My experience with LOTR/Silm fandom is that it's very formally
structured, with very inflexible rules. There are many stable
sub-communities and the AU/canon question seems to be a way to
distinguish them from each other. The "us" vs. "them" question seems
more important than in other fandoms, too. Hobbits vs. Elves, Slash
vs. Gen. Silm vs. LOTR etc.

In other fandoms the fault lines are different. For example, due to
its development HP fandom is much more AU friendly. Canon is split
multiple times between the different volumes and additionally between
the books and the movies. Now that the last book is published, that
may change of course.

The issue of authorial approval or more general, the weight of the
author's intent, is a hot topic over there, too, however.

I think some people seek the security of a voice of authority. And
afaik there are many scholars of English literature arguing about
whether or not authorial intent matters where the interpretation of a
piece of literature is concerned.

Personally, I'm always curious - about first drafts, authorial
intention before and after the fact ... But I also think that when it
comes down to it, a story has to stand and fall on its own.

And for my own writing ... I write what I want to write. The idea that
I might refrain from writing something because of the possible
disapproval of readers or the original author feels very strange to
me. If the orignal author generally tolerates fanfic, and I feel like
writing fanfic, I'll do it. And I'll write the story the way I feel it
needs to be written.

Labels, such as canon or AU or crossover or whatever, they are of no
concern to me at all. The story comes first.

Uh... I'm very sorry for rambling like that (it's all Dawn's fault).

Thank you for a very interesting discussion!

*throws in waaaay more than her allotted two cents, slinks away*

Juno

***

"Sanity is just a one trick pony. You only get one trick. Rational
thought. But when you're good and crazy, the sky's the limit!"
- The Tick




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-672831327-1204908427=:77302-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1389 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29166 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 17:35:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 17:35:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.145) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 17:35:44 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 17:35:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 17:35:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 17:35:44 -0000 X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81261 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 17:24:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 17:24:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.84) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 17:24:08 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 32270 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2008 17:24:07 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 6VGmNtIVM1ng2.HWdzlmMwYRTNDHMQ_J.jh6GSgdFVgIIs9UpzsYKTppRff1brztUCI6J_sun1jDii15Zag2eGMNuKZNufun1qteAXs8sKLAQt2Gx9OOv34N5U0S.HX9u3U_RZewterpvcdpJ0QNElLo1jlMgbnrAZees_xThBX.liH18m1arFZbMIY- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 09:24:07 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 09:24:07 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <508386.31373.qm@web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=0e58nIsRHp6BhzjRJ6E2FISOPwgOOsN6M4n6oeXP2yEa13P392QkN_GofwpQ X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 07 Mar 2008 17:35:44 -0000 "One reason I can think of is a mixture of inferiority complex coupled with the mad urge to control others, jealousy and lack imagination." LOL. Juno, you do have a fine sense of getting up the pricklies! In lots of ways, I agree, though: AU extends the universe and therefore leaves a lot open for creative writers to be, well, creative. Unfortunately, it also grants freedom for writers to be lazy. I've heard people say things like, "Oh, yeah, I know that technically Elrond only had three kids, but this story is already labelled AU, so ..." Once you slap on an AU tag, you no longer have the challenge of writing anywhere near the source material. So AU fic, at least in Tolkien and Heroes and Battlestar Galactica fandoms, is a hugely mixed bag. Since I read and review *a lot* I have, unfortunately, wondered into tons of badfic, and a substantial proportion of it was labelled AU. Generally, I just move on and don't leave reviews. Once in a while, I'll leave a review pointing out a thing that worked well *and* gently suggesting that the author may want to check spelling on "Gandelaf." But no, that doesn't keep me from reading AU-labelled fic, especially if it's from an author I know delivers quality (of whom there are many on this list). viv http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1390 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49950 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 17:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 17:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n49c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.183) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 17:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n49.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 17:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 17:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 17:51:20 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 17:51:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47D17154.8080401@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Defining AU - and new: the bothersome business of reviews X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=seW5wjNgIAhgxEH-zJFHL5oRlfxPk1H5tYxF-vbK2hMz8qNtlA X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Rhapsody = wrote: > I've read it all and I nodded often yes, feeling immensely happy = that I > do not frequently visit the Pit of Voles. A friend of mine recent= ly said > that her work probably got labeled as bad!fic or crack!fic made = me go > like: wth? I told her that her work, even though she says its prob= ably > AU does not deserve such treatment. > Ha! Currently I earn my mon= ey mostly with translating trashy novels while I try to sell my first origi= nal novel and work on the second (that I honestly mean to sell, there were = others before that which never saw the light of day or another pair of eyes= besides mine). Anyway. So called crack!fic and lowly AU? There's some p= ro-fic out there, and I'm talking bestselling authors here, that can't hold= a candle to those fanfic stories. And that's my professional opinion. > = > Yeps. I always compared it to raising a kid that at a certain point you = > have to learn to let go, let it stand on its own and hoping you did > e= nough for it :) Yes, absolutely. As we can see in the ridiculous interview= s by one Joanne K. Rowling, it's very very necessary to be able to let go. = Sometimes I'm very grateful that JRR Tolkien died a long time ago and that= the Oujia board method favoured by certain canatics that Dawn described so= lovingly ;-) has its drawbacks as hard evidence for authorial intent. *co= ugh* > > Well yes, that's me too. However I can imagine that newcomers ca= n be > easily intimidated by people who have control issues. Absolutely.= I see that time and again, how adult women are scared of writing a certain= story or of posting it because of the big bad community out there. But I = think it's been getting better. *crosses fingers* > another matter that s= ome writers have a need for receiving reviews, > which is another can of = worms at itself, but it still influence their > behaviour towards labeling= their stories or deciding how to write > stories. Or how they deal with r= eceiving crit... > Big juicy worms that. I hear they are excellent if fri= ed over a small fire. Absolutely, yes. I admit it, reviews are a part of = why I keep writing fanfic even though my priority is my o-fic. O-fic, even= if shared with a few dedicated friends and proof-readers, is a very lonely= business. You get feedback from just a handful of people if you're lucky. = Fanfic - I argue that a part of the appeal lies in the process of communic= ation with a like-minded (well, more or less, at least) community. While I= don't take those so-called "reviews" particularly seriously, there have be= en a few that got under my skin. And if I were a new writer, they'd get to = me much worse. As I said - the human being as a social creature - no matte= r how we writers and artists take pride in being introverts, loners, indivi= duals, outsiders, at least in some measure, ALL of us want to belong. We wa= nt to belong, we want to conform to the generally accepted standards of our= chose community. Reviews ... *SIGH* Well, most comments I see around ba= rely deserve the label "comment" much less "review", much less "critique". = Good reviews or critiques are hard to write, which is why I wrote that ess= ay about "How to Review" that's also posted at the SWG website. How to dea= l with critique ... in the western world, kids don't get raised to be able = to deal with criticism or mistakes. Generally, kids are raised to be perfe= ct. All of us want to be perfect. We don't want to make mistakes. We don't = want to have weaknesses. It's understandable, but it's really, really stupi= d. Because mistakes are necessary in order to gain experience, in order to= change, to grow. Weaknesses are often strengths in disguise. A young write= r may start out with a penchant for purple prose. As she matures that may t= urn into a gift for writing atmosphere, setting, "beats", for nothing less = than world-building. (Not to mention the fact how debatable categories suc= h as "right" and "wrong" are for writing anyway ...) We are not raised to = appreciate mistakes. And that may be the greatest mistake of all. > Thank= you for sharing your thoughts, it actually summed up a lot on how > I thi= nk about it too, so thanks for wording it so spot on! Ah, thank you very = much! It was a pleasure. (Dawn really knows me too well ...) Cheers, Juno = *** "Rational yet non-intellectual, moral yet inexplicit, symbolic not al= legorical, fantasy is not primitive but primary." - Ursula K. LeGuin From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1391 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4226 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 18:03:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 18:03:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.216) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 18:03:31 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 18:03:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 18:03:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 18:03:31 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 18:03:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <508386.31373.qm@web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=XsUcMCb1rQXDNpg_SMUxsMZ4fdHpGK4_Wu7pf57rokO3zf-pPA X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Viv wrote: > > > Unfortunately, it also grants freedom for writers to > be = lazy. Yes, absolutely. And bad!fic is bad!fic is bad!fic. It's not as if= I enjoy reading the stories about the heroine with the long pink tresses o= n the unicorn with Legolas ... But just because many stories written by te= enagers and labelled "AU" are bad doesn't justify treating a whole genre as= something inferior. I've mentioned control issues - one thing I've also n= oticed is a certain urge of more mature and experienced writers and reviewe= rs to "educate" other (younger, inexperienced, lazy) writers. And that neve= r seems to work. If a young/new author really cares about writing, in time= she will notice on her own that there is something like editing and revisi= ng, that there are people called "beta-reader". I've witnessed the process = more than once. And the others? Not a thousand proper reviews with careful= , constructive criticism will make them improve. Not even a thousand flames= will "help". Live and let live, and everyone's happier. As for prickly: = *evil grin* yes, absolutely. Pissed off in many ways, to be honest. Sick of= canon!saints treating AU authors with thinly veiled condescension. I don'= t mind people who abide by their canon. And I'm willing to place a bet that= I know my canon better than many canatics. ;-) I only mind people who trea= t AU authors as if they are inferior writers per se. Cheers, Juno From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1392 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82868 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 18:12:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 18:12:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.169) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 18:12:27 -0000 X-Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so10254242uge.32 for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:12:27 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.78.149.15 with SMTP id w15mr4551611hud.45.1204913546737; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:12:26 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y34sm8066630iky.6.2008.03.07.10.12.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:12:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47D1858C.3060600@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 19:12:28 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <508386.31373.qm@web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <508386.31373.qm@web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=H-0mQreUPh124tRdOIG3zo6NrJkX5sE4nHAjJlbN1V9_MvkLlhGjPa4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Viv wrote: Hi Viv, > "One reason I can think of is a mixture of inferiority > complex coupled with the mad urge to control others, > jealousy and lack imagination." > > LOL. Juno, you do have a fine sense of getting up the > pricklies! > > In lots of ways, I agree, though: AU extends the > universe and therefore leaves a lot open for creative > writers to be, well, creative. > > Unfortunately, it also grants freedom for writers to > be lazy. I've heard people say things like, "Oh, yeah, > I know that technically Elrond only had three kids, > but this story is already labelled AU, so ..." Once > you slap on an AU tag, you no longer have the > challenge of writing anywhere near the source > material. So AU fic, at least in Tolkien and Heroes > and Battlestar Galactica fandoms, is a hugely mixed > bag. Since I read and review *a lot* I have, > unfortunately, wondered into tons of badfic, and a > substantial proportion of it was labelled AU. But, isn't that actually a personal view on how you expect a story to be written? I think what Juno's point is that the way how a story is told, that seals the deal, not how strictly one adheres to canon. I have read plenty of fab stories that were completely opposite of canon and still had be from beginning to the end glued to paper/screen ect. Btw, canon writers can be immensely lazy writers as well, I mean you can completely adhere to canon, but if the story is inconsequently written, the pace and style makes it impossible to read... Writing AU does not mean badfic. Writing canon can mean exactly the same, still AU gets smacked around and well, doesn't get the recognition it deserves.. > But no, that doesn't keep me from reading AU-labelled > fic, especially if it's from an author I know delivers > quality (of whom there are many on this list). Quality is too subjective to be applied objectively. What might be quality for you, might be completely the opposite of another. Besides that literature over the years/decades have proven that literature or mainstream fic never held onto a certain quality standard. What might be supreme this year, is completely not done the next year. The thing is, those labeled 'badfic' AU stories still see to a need: people love them, read them and want more. Hitcount and nr of reviews that the stories do get say a lot. Honestly, who are we to pass such judgement over the taste of another? Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1393 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39529 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 18:40:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 18:40:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.216) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 18:40:17 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 18:40:17 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 18:40:17 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 18:40:17 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 18:40:16 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47D1858C.3060600@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=N36ZTqImliW9mzksB4OGIpf7bma7sh4T4xhKA7_Evwz0Bjslxw X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Rhapsody = wrote: > > Btw, canon writers can be immensely lazy writers as well, I me= an you can > completely adhere to canon, but if the story is inconsequentl= y written, > the pace and style makes it impossible to read... Yes. Yes.= Yes. Actually, I've read more really bad canon stories than AU stories! (= And so many canon stories have simply NO POINT at all. They are bad pastich= es, adding nothing new to the original. Boring! Still, I wouldn't say canon= -abiding stories are negative per-se. It's not what I read fanfic for, but = that's my personal preference and personal opinion.) Quality of writing i= s not dependant on canon or AU. It's about the writing. Plot, characterisat= ion, style. > The thing is, those labeled 'badfic' AU stories still see t= o a need: > people love them, read them and want more. Hitcount and nr of = reviews > that the stories do get say a lot. Honestly, who are we to pass = such > judgement over the taste of another? Rhapsody, I could kiss you f= or that. Really. Word! *smooches* Yes. It's not my place to pass judgement= on how and why someone writes a story and posts it. It's not my responsibi= lity to police all archives and hunt down bad!fic or to review everyone to = death. Writing reviews is not a duty to the community. And I'm not doing t= he author a precious favour because I deign to leave a comment. I see writi= ng comments as a *right*, an invitation to a conversation about a story, an= d as a right it should be exercised carefully and circumspectly. Cheers, = Juno *** "Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail= better." -Samuel Beckett From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1394 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37269 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 19:05:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 19:05:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 19:05:09 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 078E858012 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2008 20:05:06 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2008 20:05:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 20:05:06 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1151362090.20080307200506@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <830780.77302.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <830780.77302.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: Defining AU X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=51c1ahU3lJ4xvfGyfgjVQVGe2ByJpOjxk5ZLHQGqWXm9m1MPeC0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, A> When I wrote a story and killed Legolas off in A> the prologue (and pretty much the rest of the fellowship)�I knew I A> was going to get some bad feedback on that. But I good reasons for A> what I did and why it had to be that way for my fic. I'm sure some A> people stopped reading it anyway. But the ones that stuck around A> had a chance to say 'ahhhh now I get why she did that!' Well, this is AU for me, but that's not why I answer (haven't red this discussion, yet). This would be the first LotR fic (without Silm characters appearing) I'm really interested to read :) I'll be glad if you send me the link so I can book mark it for the future reading :) [The other is Kasiopea's LotR story where Boromir survives (only in Polish so far and yes - AU), finalized ages ago but I had no time/mood for that, yet.] Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1395 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86633 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 19:57:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 19:57:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.98) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 19:57:34 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 47145 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2008 19:57:33 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: E.QtpbMVM1nvpyZd_VQJBaymD_IgT6h49LIIDniH3jqwe6YeZotuVpwFdc2DPC2uBzorvozRlMyKm9mwRRGjpBpzOfeoKvAB8shJZ8CGEoJEqOS9sQJcZQ-- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 11:57:33 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:57:33 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1151362090.20080307200506@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1164232689-1204919853=:40540" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <666241.40540.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: Defining AU X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=_SiQFoYpd_dwIxkzyywuprsPR-iYCvwz2RMlY5qqOH3nLv2vRA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1164232689-1204919853=:40540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aww thanks Sirielle! Here is the Link - http://www.openscrolls.net/fanfic/story.php?no=1923 > The thing is, those labeled 'badfic' AU stories still see to a need: > people love them, read them and want more. Hitcount and nr of reviews > that the stories do get say a lot. Honestly, who are we to pass such > judgement over the taste of another? At the same time, a lot of really great writers and great stories fly under the radar because the author doesn't post at a lot of archives, doesn't review alot, isn't involved in forums, etc so I don't think that hit count or number of reviews are a sure sign of a great story. There have been times when I've stumbled upon a story by accident and thought it was really well written and enjoyable and it had no reviews and limited hit count. And the author's name was the least bit familiar to me from the fandom. I think being involved in the fandom and making your name recognizable is 1/2 the battle to getting your stories read. But it can backfire as well. If someone reads one story of yours and doesn't like it - they might not go on to read the next one assuming they don't like your writing. Who on here hasn't got that one (or ten lol) stories that they wrote that makes them cringe because it was one of their earlier attempts or just didn't turn out quite right. And this is true of original fiction as well as fanfiction. If Stephan King puts you to sleep, you don't go out and buy every book he writes no matter how popular he is. People enjoy writing different things as well as people enjoy reading different things. Thank Goodness for that or fanfiction would have died years ago because we would have run out of things to write. Just like each different writer has a different style - alot of different archives have a different style that is popular - and people post where they feel they fit in and readers read where they do because they usually like what is posted there. I think it would be extremely rare to find a story and/or writer that was equally popular on every archive because of that fact. Sirielle wrote: Ai Alassante7, A> When I wrote a story and killed Legolas off in A> the prologue (and pretty much the rest of the fellowship) I knew I A> was going to get some bad feedback on that. But I good reasons for A> what I did and why it had to be that way for my fic. I'm sure some A> people stopped reading it anyway. But the ones that stuck around A> had a chance to say 'ahhhh now I get why she did that!' Well, this is AU for me, but that's not why I answer (haven't red this discussion, yet). This would be the first LotR fic (without Silm characters appearing) I'm really interested to read :) I'll be glad if you send me the link so I can book mark it for the future reading :) [The other is Kasiopea's LotR story where Boromir survives (only in Polish so far and yes - AU), finalized ages ago but I had no time/mood for that, yet.] Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1164232689-1204919853=:40540 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Aww thanks Sirielle! Here is the Link - http://www.openscrolls.net/fanfic/story.php?no=1923 
 
> The thing is, those labeled 'badfic' AU stories still see to a need:
> people love them, read them and want more. Hitcount and nr of reviews
> that the stories do get say a lot. Honestly, who are we to pass such
> judgement over the taste of another?

At the same time, a lot of really great writers and great stories fly under the radar because the author doesn't post at a lot of archives, doesn't review alot, isn't involved in forums, etc so I don't think that hit count or number of reviews are a sure sign of a great story. There have been times when I've stumbled upon a story by accident and thought it was really well written and enjoyable and it had no reviews and limited hit count. And the author's name was the least bit familiar to me from the fandom. I think being involved in the fandom and making your name recognizable is 1/2 the battle to getting your stories read. But it can backfire as well. If someone reads one story of yours and doesn't like it - they might not go on to read the next one assuming they don't like your writing. Who on here hasn't got that one (or ten lol) stories that they wrote that makes them cringe because it was one of their earlier attempts or just didn't turn out quite right. And this is true of original fiction as well as fanfiction. If Stephan King puts you to sleep, you don't go out and buy every book he writes no matter how popular he is. People enjoy writing different things as well as people enjoy reading different things. Thank Goodness for that or fanfiction would have died years ago because we would have run out of things to write. Just like each different writer has a different style - alot of different archives have a different style that is popular - and people post where they feel they fit in and readers read where they do because they usually like what is posted there. I think it would be extremely rare to find a story and/or writer that was equally popular on every archive because of that fact.
 


Sirielle wrote:
Ai Alassante7,

A> When I wrote a story and killed Legolas off in
A> the prologue (and pretty much the rest of the fellowship) I knew I
A> was going to get some bad feedback on that. But I good reasons for
A> what I did and why it had to be that way for my fic. I'm sure some
A> people stopped reading it anyway. But the ones that stuck around
A> had a chance to say 'ahhhh now I get why she did that!'

Well, this is AU for me, but that's not why I answer (haven't red this
discussion, yet). This would be the first LotR fic (without Silm characters appearing) I'm
really interested to read :) I'll be glad if you send me the link so I
can book mark it for the future reading :)
[The other is Kasiopea's LotR story where Boromir survives (only in Polish so far and yes - AU), finalized ages ago but I
had no time/mood for that, yet.]

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1164232689-1204919853=:40540-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1396 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 73606 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n50b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.164) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n50.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57085 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 20:52:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 20:52:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56812.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.86) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 20:52:46 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 57883 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2008 20:52:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: BEBibKAVM1l2_xk330EkXQF9XFMLdqVphMDvWw2o1LnBTt6XY_7h2oNbFlWEGTuLiGpOQ1VMJ5M1_n9h0Y6z9ARF0EHPzM68lphzR940_zl6VQsQSdzwAtNeiMfNzQZUG5R4FYpsbS80PAB4Pi2RRLctMg6r.u9IkOFjjQMRQAwSUw.7Rg8ihakegss- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56812.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 12:52:30 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:52:30 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <896992.56783.qm@web56812.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=mjFiDigxqzssIcUmwDkG4B6sytNC2sRu6kfjXR03khuUYwCHcp04VkuT--eT X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 07 Mar 2008 21:00:16 -0000 True. I used to have that nasty habit. I had the arrogance to offer a well-known writer (privately, not in a review) some tips on how she could make something better, and she told me that the story was done, she wasn't changing anything, and I could, more or less, mind my own business. At the time I was shocked to hear that someone didn't want to revisit a story and perfect it (since I'm always looking to do that with the crap I write, so that I can become a better writer), but after thinking about it, I figure she has a point. I no longer offer deep critique unsolicited. Now, if someone wants to subject a story to my beta, that's another thing entirely. :) viv --- JunoMagic wrote: > I've mentioned control issues - one thing I've also > noticed is a > certain urge of more mature and experienced writers > and reviewers to > "educate" other (younger, inexperienced, lazy) > writers. And that never > seems to work. http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1397 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 73609 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.241) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n26.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35495 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 20:48:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 20:48:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.87) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 20:48:02 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 25665 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2008 20:47:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: atq7AucVM1kCfvggQ5JZalNY2CS22EmKj5YQadsgLrKTu2A96Fx.K27CdOY6fW0nE1nNn7TokZ4s3WuFwfyCxcR0OQ_4VLeW4XOHaj542p9eEWzIE9O_D.xFrUD5JT8RssWNva0XpeI.FVutkVbEXPWbO23.ighp7fdbkeFbpYs6zFvA_bTkCEK36Vg- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 12:47:55 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:47:55 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <875670.25187.qm@web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: Reviews bad? (was "AU") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=QKql4FbjCv_qvHE7hsbZ6yDrQe3ahlHYMvnRGPutZCoVqjbtFmuQpMkjMxFX X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 07 Mar 2008 21:00:16 -0000 This is an interesting point, Juno, and it made me stop in my tracks. I am a habitual reviewer, and over the years I've secretly patted myself on the back for writing so many reviews. Can it be a *bad* thing, though, to review so much? Do you think there might be writers out there who don't want reviews? I'm looking at this a whole new way in light of this comment... hmm. viv --- JunoMagic wrote: > It's not my responsibility to > police all > archives and hunt down bad!fic or to review everyone > to death. http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1398 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 73860 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 21:00:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 21:00:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.59) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 21:00:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:00:17 -0000 X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 162 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 20:34:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 20:34:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.82) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 20:34:16 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 22640 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2008 20:34:15 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: KDA4hC4VM1nVEBeCCQmhtu4xX4wN.KuZH_NCEi3T_ikTfWobJ8413HkKVnflD50IEoMCGT1iBmFgKLkLdxklP6iePFpACJuo5fsUVIV.VeBtcGAuCldNj9vgMDUBuKKV7Z9SdkUdouGhPIZvmL91wzgOdS2P4Os- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 12:34:10 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:34:10 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47D1858C.3060600@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <632674.22492.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=ji5GmC6lFSkdEt_SqWJbnRXnwx4gAvQWYV9T1rbSlcHioUU0o4w3DE8eCuZC X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 07 Mar 2008 21:00:16 -0000 The reader is always the one who has the right to pass judgement on a story. In a non-fanfic setting, the reader is the one who buys or doesn't buy the book; in a fic setting the reader is the one who reviews or doesn't review the fic. And the reader *always* has the right to tell other people whether a he or she thought a story was good or bad. That's "word of mouth" and is what a lot of writers who aren't active in fandom rely on. I don't think this is a good place to pull out my CV, but I have some experience in RL determining what is good or bad writing. And no, I don't really hold bad writing against a fic writer who is telling a good story despite crappy writing. :) (Sorry for taking this sort of off topic... AU: yes, I think it sinks a story for some readers. Apparently, it also draws in some readers. So maybe it all balances out in the end?) viv --- Rhapsody wrote: > Honestly, who are > we to pass such > judgement over the taste of another? http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1399 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35556 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 21:39:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 21:39:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.185) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 21:39:25 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i6so916048rng.2 for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:39:24 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.150.225.14 with SMTP id x14mr797829ybg.153.1204925964461; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:39:24 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 20sm6120839uga.20.2008.03.07.13.39.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:39:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47D1B60F.9010204@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:39:27 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <632674.22492.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <632674.22492.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=76ygjyEoEbF3pbUvVkN61BHs34Bnt17E6ATWo4m2R0ds9KuzR85iTaU X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Viv wrote: > The reader is always the one who has the right to pass > judgement on a story. In a non-fanfic setting, the > reader is the one who buys or doesn't buy the book; in > a fic setting the reader is the one who reviews or > doesn't review the fic. And the reader *always* has > the right to tell other people whether a he or she > thought a story was good or bad. That's "word of > mouth" and is what a lot of writers who aren't active > in fandom rely on. Well this is not about reader giving feedback to an author, that is a complete different thing. This is readers wanting to define for other readers what is good and what is not. Thusly the bad AU label. If you go back to an author and give feedback, fine makes sense. But the fact that people are ganging up on author's or actually groups who relish in writing and reading certain kinds of fics. And thusly passing judgement over the taste of other readers, that simply goes to far and is in a way censorship. I am not sure if you got that point previously, so I hope it is much clearer now. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1400 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85042 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 21:43:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 21:43:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 21:43:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 94873 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2008 21:43:34 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: RhkbOYwVM1kEFGnYmkwVB3NgFeN182ZnFZ_R_9ESbJcXMBdETcrdyXJxRlZ_C5KhhU7dgvXlmrGTxuxMecobnXRGdA3sm9yczh3uecLrqTFNN_K7h0hjmJZomNPLCCgkPqwSGVckpZA5a_o- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:43:34 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 13:43:34 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47D1B60F.9010204@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-655341650-1204926214=:94694" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <572613.94694.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=PIDTAL_KhqnMZEZKUprIm6efDbDdYxhlnvFtldQdV7-naTTNKg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-655341650-1204926214=:94694 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I didn't get that point about people ganging up on writers who read/write that type of story either so excuse me for going off topic. I did not realize that was the case or was even going on. Rhapsody wrote: Viv wrote: > The reader is always the one who has the right to pass > judgement on a story. In a non-fanfic setting, the > reader is the one who buys or doesn't buy the book; in > a fic setting the reader is the one who reviews or > doesn't review the fic. And the reader *always* has > the right to tell other people whether a he or she > thought a story was good or bad. That's "word of > mouth" and is what a lot of writers who aren't active > in fandom rely on. Well this is not about reader giving feedback to an author, that is a complete different thing. This is readers wanting to define for other readers what is good and what is not. Thusly the bad AU label. If you go back to an author and give feedback, fine makes sense. But the fact that people are ganging up on author's or actually groups who relish in writing and reading certain kinds of fics. And thusly passing judgement over the taste of other readers, that simply goes to far and is in a way censorship. I am not sure if you got that point previously, so I hope it is much clearer now. Rhapsody ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-655341650-1204926214=:94694 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I didn't get that point about people ganging up on writers who read/write that type of story either so excuse me for going off topic. I did not realize that was the case or was even going on.  
 

Rhapsody wrote:
Viv wrote:
> The reader is always the one who has the right to pass
> judgement on a story. In a non-fanfic setting, the
> reader is the one who buys or doesn't buy the book; in
> a fic setting the reader is the one who reviews or
> doesn't review the fic. And the reader *always* has
> the right to tell other people whether a he or she
> thought a story was good or bad. That's "word of
> mouth" and is what a lot of writers who aren't active
> in fandom rely on.

Well this is not about reader giving feedback to an author, that is a
complete different thing. This is readers wanting to define for other
readers what is good and what is not. Thusly the bad AU label.

If you go back to an author and give feedback, fine makes sense. But the
fact that people are ganging up on author's or actually groups who
relish in writing and reading certain kinds of fics. And thusly passing
judgement over the taste of other readers, that simply goes to far and
is in a way censorship. I am not sure if you got that point previously,
so I hope it is much clearer now.

Rhapsody




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-655341650-1204926214=:94694-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1401 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67576 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 21:44:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 21:44:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.168) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 21:44:25 -0000 X-Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id q2so3605847uge.33 for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:44:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.67.20.3 with SMTP id x3mr1772789ugi.3.1204926261259; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:44:21 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c1sm6119544ugf.72.2008.03.07.13.44.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:44:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47D1B739.9000805@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:44:25 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <875670.25187.qm@web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <875670.25187.qm@web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Reviews bad? (was "AU") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Ps5R7hCWN8iabtLmwK7Adoat8DdO34W-Mw5FeY0usDVNxYVcM-mrfHQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Viv wrote: > This is an interesting point, Juno, and it made me > stop in my tracks. I am a habitual reviewer, and over > the years I've secretly patted myself on the back for > writing so many reviews. Can it be a *bad* thing, > though, to review so much? Do you think there might be > writers out there who don't want reviews? I'm looking > at this a whole new way in light of this comment... > hmm. No, I don't think that has to do with the point Juno and I were making, but more with the fact that there are groups out there, proclaiming their absolute mission to clean a somewhat public archives for which they don't pay the bills, nor moderate, nor do any admin duties and still feel that they have every right to bully someone around. Simply because they have an idea on how fanfic should be written or what quality is. This Q word... ack! Then there are other sides as well: people wanting reviews to measure in a way their self-esteem and oh boy, if it contains one inkling of a bad note, they turn on the reviewer and cue in the drama. It can be a source of drama/wank. Sometimes they are author's who either put up the line which says R&R please or expect others simply to review their works because they deserve it. There is a huge issue with self entitlement. Juno had an immense good point in that OF writers: it's lonely. You never know for sure what your readers will think unless you send in a manuscript and then depending on the agent/publisher (this is different by country) you get feedback. If you break through, the sales figures will tell the tale (although ah the literary reviews...), perhaps interviews, exposure. FF is almost a guarantee to get feedback in a way and I sometimes think it also spoils people. Then again not every ff writer wants to become an of writer, so yeah. Still getting reviews is not a guarantee, no matter if you have a fandom presence or not, or review a lot yourself. Either way, I have written many reviews at many archives over the past, what 4 to 5 years? I lost track of how many (its over 1k, that's for sure) and nor am I going to pat myself on the back for it. Nor do I expect to receive as much in return. If feel strongly that that is just utter unrealistic. I write and put things out there because I want to write, no strike that: I must write, no matter the hardships currently. I am not feeling crushed if it remains ignored (yeps Armadillo hide is my friend!), gets hardly reviewed because during the process of writing it and working with a beta/proofreader, I do know that I have written something I liked and passes as readable. When you are new and not feeling so secure in your craft, well it takes time to achieve the state that you realise *why* you write and for everyone the reasons are different. For me currently, writing ff is my way to keep some sanity. I can't concentrate on OF research or writing currently, so in order to try to write daily, I try to do it every day. I always regarded reviews as a pat on the back or a way to start a dialogue with your reader. I've always deeply enjoyed writing reviews and I've been missing it. For me it's nearly natural to tell a writer what I liked, what worked, what maybe not. I never ever expected the favour returned, I simply don't work that way. I just want to say and very muchly encourage: If you want to say something to the writer: go for it. One word, two words, 10,000 words... But if you do so, just wear kevlar or tevlon, just in case. Rhapsody (puts the soapbox back into the corner) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1402 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 75476 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 21:45:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 21:45:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.60) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 21:45:01 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:45:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:45:01 -0000 X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91692 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 21:43:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 21:43:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.82) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 21:43:42 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 69653 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2008 21:43:41 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: XiRGhNMVM1k02r0rSgBbB8Akh4LXi9bIU01U1xreVuBzrlX7xg4R5S1wq.F3RCC3VodQp9DiEPMxfAW83wzd_R2_cHWLcahIpNOUF6uSZIbDvkIdc.XnEvBG3RjKvQrsDO0WxTBo1CPiceHd9xiSOXOpweeslL4- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:43:41 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 13:43:41 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47D1B60F.9010204@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <387265.68445.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=7xmHfHu6ljy7dMf5oXjyVuoTEWEr3_tcyWLseJ7BR6u4FjCE7_k-DB482ZNi X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 07 Mar 2008 21:44:59 -0000 Ah. You mean like pro-slash writers versus anti-slash writers? Those battle lines have been drawn for a long time in this fandom. lol. I suppose there is sort of a canonista versus AU thang, too. But I don't think either side is wrong, particularly. Both can become annoying when they get too evangelical, though. Think I got it now. :) viv --- Rhapsody wrote: > Viv wrote: > > The reader is always the one who has the right to > pass > > judgement on a story. In a non-fanfic setting, the > > reader is the one who buys or doesn't buy the > book; in > > a fic setting the reader is the one who reviews or > > doesn't review the fic. And the reader *always* > has > > the right to tell other people whether a he or she > > thought a story was good or bad. That's "word of > > mouth" and is what a lot of writers who aren't > active > > in fandom rely on. > > Well this is not about reader giving feedback to an > author, that is a > complete different thing. This is readers wanting to > define for other > readers what is good and what is not. Thusly the bad > AU label. > > If you go back to an author and give feedback, fine > makes sense. But the > fact that people are ganging up on author's or > actually groups who > relish in writing and reading certain kinds of fics. > And thusly passing > judgement over the taste of other readers, that > simply goes to far and > is in a way censorship. I am not sure if you got > that point previously, > so I hope it is much clearer now. > > Rhapsody > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1403 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33014 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 21:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 21:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.113) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 21:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:52:34 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:52:34 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 21:52:34 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 21:52:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <387265.68445.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=uqecXRnVdcrLsew_6SDvbS0NuCMVOEjq98pZjV8Mjc4cCeQV7glwFBY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Viv wrote: > > Ah. You mean like pro-slash writers versus anti-slash > write= rs? Those battle lines have been drawn for a long > time in this fandom. lo= l. No. AU, Mary Sues, Tenth Walkers, Legomances, Aragorn sister stories, m= pregs and what more. Thranduil or Fingolfin having blonde hair (I kid you n= ot),Finwe's eye colour, animals being immortal on Aman. PWP (no matter what= orientation) having no place in the Tolkien fandom. Matters that just real= ly make you go like... wth? Want to know more? I'd probably can snoop aroun= d, but I have other things to do. Maybe Juno knows, she's been dealing more= with them I think. Slash vs het was never on my mind. It's a non issue t= o me and I don't pay attention to that. What I listed above however is some= thing I do see people being nailed down publically for, peolpe organising t= hemselves to terrorise or bully someone out of the Tolkien sandbox. It's re= al and it's happening, for a while now. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1404 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97908 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 22:07:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 22:07:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.100) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 22:07:15 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 5960 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2008 22:07:14 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 5g7xWPcVM1kRzVrMcpMgoONXyBGD54gpnp.5lxFNEp8SeG.Tsf.tezE7DsmXfSfwVobw3D8JYrUNDPmvhdEHUxC52UfJ_fiT9Qcm5YbYrnYahMj12teZwiQV85pc.VeNG2GUkiLtDiMvqg4- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:07:14 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 14:07:14 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1499096639-1204927634=:2296" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <507348.2296.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=kPEa7iPOV7BeojQfopZEQKcoDqP72Wj1pX3AJA2eLfcO0mfeSQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1499096639-1204927634=:2296 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ah yes. I do know of which you speak now. rhapsody_the_bard wrote: --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Viv wrote: > > Ah. You mean like pro-slash writers versus anti-slash > writers? Those battle lines have been drawn for a long > time in this fandom. lol. No. AU, Mary Sues, Tenth Walkers, Legomances, Aragorn sister stories, mpregs and what more. Thranduil or Fingolfin having blonde hair (I kid you not),Finwe's eye colour, animals being immortal on Aman. PWP (no matter what orientation) having no place in the Tolkien fandom. Matters that just really make you go like... wth? Want to know more? I'd probably can snoop around, but I have other things to do. Maybe Juno knows, she's been dealing more with them I think. Slash vs het was never on my mind. It's a non issue to me and I don't pay attention to that. What I listed above however is something I do see people being nailed down publically for, peolpe organising themselves to terrorise or bully someone out of the Tolkien sandbox. It's real and it's happening, for a while now. Rhapsody ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1499096639-1204927634=:2296 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ah yes. I do know of which you speak now.

rhapsody_the_bard wrote:
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Viv
@...> wrote:
>
> Ah. You mean like pro-slash writers versus anti-slash
> writers? Those battle lines have been drawn for a long
> time in this fandom. lol.

No. AU, Mary Sues, Tenth Walkers, Legomances, Aragorn sister stories,
mpregs and what more. Thranduil or Fingolfin having blonde hair (I kid
you not),Finwe's eye colour, animals being immortal on Aman. PWP (no
matter what orientation) having no place in the Tolkien fandom.
Matters that just really make you go like... wth? Want to know more?
I'd probably can snoop around, but I have other things to do. Maybe
Juno knows, she's been dealing more with them I think.

Slash vs het was never on my mind. It's a non issue to me and I don't
pay attention to that. What I listed above however is something I do
see people being nailed down publically for, peolpe organising
themselves to terrorise or bully someone out of the Tolkien sandbox.
It's real and it's happening, for a while now.

Rhapsody




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1499096639-1204927634=:2296-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1405 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53632 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 22:09:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 22:09:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.173) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 22:09:12 -0000 X-Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id e2so3535375ugf.36 for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:09:11 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.78.165.16 with SMTP id n16mr5435559hue.59.1204927751141; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:09:11 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n10sm6221757mue.18.2008.03.07.14.09.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:09:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47D1BD0A.2000403@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 23:09:14 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=zidNr-SkfbNZjdKSw_xXzl9i9cMIXgOQZ2p3oqabpWJyuTNK5k96IGE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard JunoMagic wrote: Hi Juno! > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Rhapsody > wrote: > >> Btw, canon writers can be immensely lazy writers as well, I mean you > can >> completely adhere to canon, but if the story is inconsequently written, >> the pace and style makes it impossible to read... > > Yes. Yes. Yes. Actually, I've read more really bad canon stories than > AU stories! > > (And so many canon stories have simply NO POINT at all. They are bad > pastiches, adding nothing new to the original. Boring! Still, I > wouldn't say canon-abiding stories are negative per-se. It's not what > I read fanfic for, but that's my personal preference and personal > opinion.) I don't know, I think most of them are gapfillers in a way. I don't pay attention to a label AU at all. Mostly its the summary or the first paragraphs that either make me read on or not. It's a story, I want to read... do not disturb me LOL > Quality of writing is not dependant on canon or AU. It's about the > writing. Plot, characterisation, style. Yups. >> The thing is, those labeled 'badfic' AU stories still see to a need: >> people love them, read them and want more. Hitcount and nr of reviews >> that the stories do get say a lot. Honestly, who are we to pass such >> judgement over the taste of another? > > Rhapsody, I could kiss you for that. Really. Word! *smooches* :c) Thanks. > Writing reviews is not a duty to the community. And I'm not doing the > author a precious favour because I deign to leave a comment. I see > writing comments as a *right*, an invitation to a conversation about a > story, and as a right it should be exercised carefully and circumspectly. Well yes, I agree with this completely. It mostly is something that triggers it. I think when I read a story online, or on paper and I start to line my fav bits, then the author will be treated to a long review. It's a joy to write reviews too! Sometimes when someone updates and the chapter feels less than the previous ones, I really have to think about what I will put in a review. I have been following a story for a while and then, well something has changed, so I first make sure that I figured out what made me go like hmm. Sometimes it's a change of beta for example or a writer decides to try something new. Or the writer was in a rush to get it out there... All things to take into consideration and needs extra care. :c) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1406 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 74355 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 22:14:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 22:14:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.145) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 22:14:50 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 22:14:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 22:14:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 22:14:50 -0000 X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69963 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 22:12:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 22:12:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56811.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.85) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 22:12:32 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 53529 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2008 22:12:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: BBN6RMUVM1mrqHpCRkmokwoQgnA49mxn6FVLLsxNlMxwd5j9OxwVq6KpTOGtiJM5FeLBycYkJKFEy.b4H.mPOmck2Poiq9jO5dN6cK.xAmdTiNYjkig0HSQILOfMqSeXlX513ZZZYpavh5D9JhcRk5_ZtNraFQ-- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56811.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:12:31 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 14:12:31 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <566370.53241.qm@web56811.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=iUZ0-SdJmFA_CWs05JwMwwruGFSNFsx1VCYuB0g6vrV6As_WwZFFWmLSBVai X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 07 Mar 2008 22:14:48 -0000 Oh. Gotchca. Fans being mean to each other: Ick. I think the original question was what should be labelled AU and whether a label detracts from readership. My answers: First, all fanfiction should be labelled AU, becuase it isn't canon. Anything any fic writer writes is non-canon because it isn't written by the work's original author (in our case, Tolkien). I'd submit that even some of the conclusions Christopher Tolkien has made concerning his father's incomplete notes goes into the realm of AU. Now, there's also that issue of whether labelling your work AU is a bad thing or a good thing. Rhapsody is saying here that the AU label can provoke attacks from anti-AU sorts. But her and Juno's staunch defense of AU stories (and slightly negative comments about writers who try to stick to canon, even at the expense of storytelling) indicate that there are folks who are more than willing to read AU, and in fact might skip over stories that *aren't* labelled AU. So in the end, I would imagine that labels are up to an author's discretion: label your story AU depending on the readers you're hoping to attract. viv --- rhapsody_the_bard wrote: > What I listed above however > is something I do > see people being nailed down publically for, peolpe > organising > themselves to terrorise or bully someone out of the > Tolkien sandbox. > It's real and it's happening, for a while now. > > Rhapsody http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1407 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46956 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 23:06:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 23:06:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 23:06:01 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 23:05:58 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 23:05:58 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 23:05:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <566370.53241.qm@web56811.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Labels? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=uX_iHlRb56BDYGYMdzVDAOgnImk6XgmefMSE4wNPTISgfqEKqg X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Viv wrote: > > So in the end, I would imagine that labels are up to > an a= uthor's discretion: label your story AU depending > on the readers you're h= oping to attract. > Labels can be useful, but also terribly misleading.= Especially since new, nervous authors tend to label gapfillers or really v= ery canon-compliant stories that explore the footnotes of canon with "AU" s= imply for fear of being bashed with the big canon-bat. Another reason why = I wish that people would put more effort into their summaries. If you have = a good summary, you don't depend on wrongly applied fandom acronyms. Cheer= s, Juno From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1408 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9700 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 23:14:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 23:14:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n42c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.176) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 23:14:51 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 23:14:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 23:14:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 23:14:51 -0000 X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77326 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 23:11:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 23:11:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.82) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 23:11:50 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 27111 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2008 23:11:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: whHq_nEVM1nFVGcN73X1bEJJ3ogewUd2KkXfCoeteUHn5CetAWdjN3Q5C.1llErIanimpFr5JDJ3pIGMPxc1zn6RYo77yZUyhwo1JXlTQ6B3zD7iwcZlk88RaTRAKrfcg0K_4DiB5EhuU9Ek1y41AobbTwQorc.hP6sWtVuho1Pul6JZNhrYmSWSmUU- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:11:50 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 15:11:50 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <298397.99273.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Labels? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=5bvrKCKwBcBVVVJkKO_NWYRwc5piE985GjSagStRfu5qapl9zigqD-6XRoJY X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 07 Mar 2008 23:14:49 -0000 I would *love* a tutorial on writing a good summary! Help? And, you know me: I don't label anything AU unless, well, Legolas is tromping around the Appalachians wearing Calvin Klein. Then, I guess, I sorta hafta. Canonistas beware! Ooooh... I feel a blond-Aragorn fic coming on so strong... Down, bunny! Down! viv --- JunoMagic wrote: > Another reason why I wish that people would put more > effort into their > summaries. If you have a good summary, you don't > depend on wrongly > applied fandom acronyms. > > Cheers, > Juno > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1409 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60100 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2008 23:28:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2008 23:28:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.30) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2008 23:28:01 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 23:28:01 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2008 23:28:01 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 23:28:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=5tSM1tqfzpipQ_7chXHzgjecfaU8vB8-MguX9F9J-3lcIo2bmg X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > > > No. AU, Mary Sues, Tenth Walkers, Legomances, Ara= gorn sister stories, > mpregs and what more. Thranduil or Fingolfin having = blonde hair (I kid > you not),Finwe's eye colour, animals being immortal on= Aman. PWP (no > matter what orientation) having no place in the Tolkien fa= ndom. Yes, indeed. So and so many stories don't have a place in "respecta= ble" fanfic circles, just because of WHAT they are (racist much?). It doesn= 't matter how well-written the stories are. It only matters that they are .= .. any of the above, depending on the circle/archive in question. What bot= hers me is really the wide-spread idea that a) AU is per se inferior to ca= non and the tendency of how b) writers get bashed because of WHAT they wr= ite I don't like it when new writers feel compelled to label everything AU= because they are scared of the "canon-police". I don't like it when someon= e tells a writer that her writing "defiles" canon because that particular r= eader doesn't like the pairing of the story. I'm still astounded that more = than one person wrote to me to congratulate me on my bravery for writing a = Tenth Walker Story, pimping it, nominating it for awards, owning up to it. = Pardon my French, but what the HELL? Why are we doing that to ourselves? = Subjecting ourselves to a kind of fanfic-police? Just because we are so wil= ling to belong ... somewhere? To put up an equation such as AU =3D bad, o= r the idea that "this is not canon, therefore it is bad/Tolkien wouldn't ha= ve written it like that, therefore it is bad" ... I don't get it. Not every= thing that Tolkien wrote is good. Something doesn't turn "good" just becaus= e Tolkien wrote it. Or canon. Canon is not a law of physics. It's not divi= ne law either. Canon is always derived from the interpretation of an indivi= dual. As such, canon MUST be fluid. Contestable. The argument "this is not= canon" makes me want to go "So what?" *sigh* Reposting my initial post = on my lj produced some interesting reactions: http://juno-magic.livejourna= l.com/451738.html And a wonderful essay: http://telperion1.livejournal.co= m/99357.html Cheers, Juno From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1410 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71809 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 00:15:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 00:15:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n35a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.129) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 00:15:25 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n35.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 00:15:25 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 00:15:25 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 00:15:25 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 00:15:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <298397.99273.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Re: Labels? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=QJ5JRT4NZuTj6q62y4BpyOd3Q9BZTq7PyWIiqChyw3fKJTp2yA X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Viv wrote: > > Ooooh... I feel a blond-Aragorn fic coming on so > strong..= . Down, bunny! Down! > That would be like the bunny about a serious dram= a mpreg in HP fandom that's nibbling on my ankles, huh? Actually, we tried= to do a summary exercise at TnB last year, but there were no takers. Which= I found really strange, since the most common line in summaries seems to b= e "I suck at summaries, sorry" - D'OH!!! But we'd certainly be happy to ho= ld a repetition of that exercise in April. An easy tip I can give you righ= t away is: to come up with a summary, imagine you're explaining your story = to a child within the requisite numbers of characters (FFNet: 256). It work= s best if you actually TELL it, as in speaking it aloud, no matter how sill= y it sounds and then try to write it down at the required length. You wro= te the story, you know what it's all about. You CAN write that summary, bec= ause you know what's most important about the story. Cheers, Juno From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1411 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36787 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 00:38:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 00:38:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 00:38:53 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFDEA748071 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 01:38:52 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 01:38:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 01:38:52 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <158285407.20080308013852@tlen.pl> To: Viv In-Reply-To: <298397.99273.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <298397.99273.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Blond Aragorn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=v_U8XHxWdG5u3bQ6AT4jPD0-_DteoRmLbDx0SztoClwbjYW2Shs X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Viv, V> Ooooh... I feel a blond-Aragorn fic coming on so V> strong... Down, bunny! Down! What is blond Aragorn compared with blond F�anor (and sons) ;D [Not Fingolfin, though.] Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1412 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82463 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 00:44:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 00:44:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.97) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 00:44:51 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 11818 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2008 00:44:51 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: xUTX3VoVM1k4HM47Rhhoz2GQRNTF49MErkR8GRltFXuxQPgOKpfywlWKGohBABQnVE_ULmtGpTC.NJp76e2zWiBPuLrKNrwBy6rQ7MIrWuW2hEG4DEZb8lZJ229mWLPjHQwziMbxTtU0JA-- X-Received: from [98.16.33.231] by web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:44:51 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 16:44:51 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <158285407.20080308013852@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-660476248-1204937091=:10532" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <149742.10532.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Blond Aragorn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=LjKHGzfKK2GJWE_I0JungV2fv_eMEZKFZAUWDCka1lcehveb2w X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-660476248-1204937091=:10532 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Blond Feanor??? *Screams in terror* Noooooooooooooo Sirielle wrote: Ai Viv, V> Ooooh... I feel a blond-Aragorn fic coming on so V> strong... Down, bunny! Down! What is blond Aragorn compared with blond F�anor (and sons) ;D [Not Fingolfin, though.] Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-660476248-1204937091=:10532 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Blond Feanor??? *Screams in terror* Noooooooooooooo 

Sirielle wrote:
Ai Viv,

V> Ooooh... I feel a blond-Aragorn fic coming on so
V> strong... Down, bunny! Down!


What is blond Aragorn compared with blond F�anor (and sons) ;D
[Not Fingolfin, though.]

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-660476248-1204937091=:10532-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1413 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81621 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 00:54:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 00:54:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 00:54:12 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E3253E8058 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 01:54:11 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 01:54:10 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 01:54:10 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1541655250.20080308015410@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <149742.10532.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <158285407.20080308013852@tlen.pl> <149742.10532.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Blond Aragorn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=nUC_wcCKJ13EmtazxMOzX4A5qCfe0eR8Gj2eUEWVcwo8StJEAOM X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle A> Blond Feanor??? *Screams in terror* Noooooooooooooo� If we're having nasty wicked fun then it must be a toughest one. Let's commit fandom suicide and dye his hair! ;D I think I've seen blond F�anor in artworks already, Curufin for sure. We can't really blame people for blond Fingolfin (no matter in art of fiction), not with Ted Nasmith's illustrations. I cringe every time I see his Fingolfin, can't help it O_o But I got used people see Mr 'his father's son, tall, dark, and proud, as were most of the Noldor ' that way. Finally got used. Probably. ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1414 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61414 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 01:22:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 01:22:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 01:22:53 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD56748068 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 02:22:49 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 02:22:49 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 02:22:50 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1062547350.20080308022250@tlen.pl> To: JunoMagic In-Reply-To: References: <47D1858C.3060600@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: [OT] signature quotations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=0DlFR01rclcU49ur9ENGWhqpe7yBAL9mNojH6sZPAw_ZCuDU4d4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai JunoMagic, I'm stealing your signature quotations (noting down), fantastic! Just red Beckett and Le Guin ones :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1415 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72046 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 01:58:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 01:58:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.144) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 01:58:08 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 01:58:08 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 01:58:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 01:58:08 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 01:58:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1062547350.20080308022250@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Re: [OT] signature quotations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=6gmMJw2uUgYRBGOCw2iLKGMsUZX7BAZWTsjfgEEAmAfEGxrEgw X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai JunoMagic, > > I'm stealing your signature quotations (noting = down), fantastic! Just > red Beckett and Le Guin ones :) > You're very w= elcome! I've been collecting signature quotations for a few months now. It'= s a lot of fun! Cheers, Juno *** "Whenever you find yourself on the side= of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1416 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28663 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 03:09:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 03:09:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 03:09:24 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9B958004 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 04:09:17 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 04:09:17 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 04:09:17 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <856481291.20080308040917@tlen.pl> To: Viv In-Reply-To: <566370.53241.qm@web56811.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <566370.53241.qm@web56811.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: Defining AU X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=jd6EtE8RNHXqf_c1QBy2G3C49lyo3oQnS7t5VXBufbz0NIwUq2w X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Viv and Silmmaniacs, V> My answers: First, all fanfiction should be labelled V> AU, becuase it isn't canon. Anything any fic writer V> writes is non-canon because it isn't written by the V> work's original author (in our case, Tolkien). Exactly. That's real AU. But we need more distance so label canon or AU depending on more or less staying truth to the original story and world. Definition what is canon is another can of worms ;) V> I'd submit that even some of the conclusions Christopher V> Tolkien has made concerning his father's incomplete V> notes goes into the realm of AU. Given the first definition all Silmarillion is Christopher fan fiction, only the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings are canon books for were edited by the author himself. But it took me a few years to catch it. V> Now, there's also that issue of whether labelling your V> work AU is a bad thing or a good thing. And this is something I completely don't get! That AU is 'bad'. Haven't met this POV. But I'm not active at archives these days. Oh, wait, yes - everything which is not true to canon is not good, is inferior, simply because it is changing the original world for which we have no right. Tolkien's words are sacred. Tolkien is religion. I am not joking not being sarcastic now, it really is true for some people. So a gap filler true to books is OK, but changing events, the world is not. And there is some truth in it. Then there are people who don't read fan fiction (nor review) at all, seeing it as rather disgusting or silly thing. See above - books are sacred, you are not JRRT to mess in his world. We can discuss and have countless "what ifs", "maybes" and quotations wars, but not in a form of fiction pretending to be placed side by side with books. We can search for a final statement, explanation JRRT made or it's alternatives, but not change his ideas. Studying not altering. Which again I understand. Something very true to artists and their artworks: take a look, comment, love it or hate it, but don't alter it in any way. Poetry seems to be the only exception. And music, art, but mainly poetry which gets warm welcome. Because there people create impressions inspired by books, not rewrite/extend them in their own words. And I understand this POV, too. This way we're coming back to a question if we would be so happy for others to mess with our original characters if we were original fiction authors. I sincerely would not be, given I get mad seeing what some people do with characters who aren't really mine, but I keep stealing them and call it 'love'. And damn you, I know better that Maedhros would never behave that way! ;)) Sincerely - I know. But this is my Maedhros, don't touch him. You, Tolkien man, you don't touch him, too. Well in fact these are reasons why I would rather plot what stories might look like than write them ;P Coming to the point, because I think I got lost - exaggeration in any direction isn't good for fiction, too orthodox staying "in canon" blocks imagination, even in canon discussion, while drifting too far in world's alteration is loosing a point of a story being a fan fic. A fannish story should be really related to the original, even if twists the original world. Or leave it and defend on it's own. V> Rhapsody is V> saying here that the AU label can provoke attacks from V> anti-AU sorts. This comes from misunderstanding what AU and other labels mean. Hey, but I still don't get the label 'MarySue' as this one in fact is negative. Any explanation? Why would I label my fic MarySue? Because there is female OFC in love with Fingon or because I write that literally I am travelling to Beleriand to have some research in the Iron Mountain caves (and a little chat with Melko over a glass of whiskey)? Self insert. Ps. Pity that Claudio keeps silent, he had a nice Alternated Canon definition or Expanded canon, I really liked that one, but unfortunately don't remember it. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1417 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 68359 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 04:54:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 04:54:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 04:54:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 04:54:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 04:54:38 -0000 X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22705 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 00:44:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 00:44:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 00:44:03 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 47063 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2008 00:44:03 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: hbDKSAcVM1l_.ICfNMm7Hpw4fZ3.9eItTp9jHsBHRkzoRT5aOAJEeL9WPMRps6T1TQ-- X-Received: from [98.16.33.231] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:44:03 PST Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 16:44:03 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <566370.53241.qm@web56811.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-900272397-1204937043=:45979" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <349214.45979.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=vv0bT5-D7S8_Wz7QcWoEOxnzY9HhR-AwRqiracA87T58xLxYBw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 08 Mar 2008 04:54:36 -0000 --0-900272397-1204937043=:45979 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Unfortunately though - whether its AU, Canon, Slash, Mary Sue, etc etc -there will always be immature clique'ish bullies that like to make themselves feel better by ripping other people apart. Did fanfic not give birth to GAFF and Deleterus? There will always be some people to no matter how well its written will read something that they know they personally object to and then rip it apart for being exactly that. Mature responsible readers will not read Aragorn/Legolas slash if it offends them, AU, or a fic about Turgon when he is their least favorite character written by Tolkien looking for things to pick apart. Thats just a waste of your time in most people's opinion. Personally there is too much good fic out there for me to waste my time on looking for bad fic to slice and dice. BUT there are always going to be a select few that get their enjoyment out of these type of activities. The best thing to do is ignore them and they'll eventually go away. Giving them attention in their minds, validates their efforts and encourages them to keep going. In theory - that is the best way to deal with it. But in practice, if you're the writer or friends with the writer, its damn near impossible not to defend yourself, your story, your reputation as a writer. So whats the solution? Umm....I have no clue. But the good news is, and correct me if I'm wrong, GAFF's website crashed and burned some time ago so that leaves one less place for these types of people. The better archives are getting much more strict about flaming. Perhaps if enough people harass the archives that DO allow flames, they'll start enforcing a no flame policy just to shut everyone up. On an archive like FF.net though - its so big, I'm not sure you could do much other than avoid it and the people involved. Not sure that its a solution but it will be less likely that you'll run into this type of wank on a well-run archive. Viv wrote: Oh. Gotchca. Fans being mean to each other: Ick. I think the original question was what should be labelled AU and whether a label detracts from readership. My answers: First, all fanfiction should be labelled AU, becuase it isn't canon. Anything any fic writer writes is non-canon because it isn't written by the work's original author (in our case, Tolkien). I'd submit that even some of the conclusions Christopher Tolkien has made concerning his father's incomplete notes goes into the realm of AU. Now, there's also that issue of whether labelling your work AU is a bad thing or a good thing. Rhapsody is saying here that the AU label can provoke attacks from anti-AU sorts. But her and Juno's staunch defense of AU stories (and slightly negative comments about writers who try to stick to canon, even at the expense of storytelling) indicate that there are folks who are more than willing to read AU, and in fact might skip over stories that *aren't* labelled AU. So in the end, I would imagine that labels are up to an author's discretion: label your story AU depending on the readers you're hoping to attract. viv --- rhapsody_the_bard wrote: > What I listed above however > is something I do > see people being nailed down publically for, peolpe > organising > themselves to terrorise or bully someone out of the > Tolkien sandbox. > It's real and it's happening, for a while now. > > Rhapsody http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-900272397-1204937043=:45979 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Unfortunately though - whether its AU, Canon, Slash, Mary Sue, etc etc -there will always be immature clique'ish bullies that like to make themselves feel better by ripping other people apart. Did fanfic not give birth to GAFF and Deleterus? There will always be some people to no matter how well its written will read something that they know they personally object to and then rip it apart for being exactly that. Mature responsible readers will not read Aragorn/Legolas slash if it offends them, AU, or a fic about Turgon when he is their least favorite character written by Tolkien looking for things to pick apart. Thats just a waste of your time in most people's opinion. Personally there is too much good fic out there for me to waste my time on looking for bad fic to slice and dice. BUT there are always going to be a select few that get their enjoyment out of these type of activities. The best thing to do is ignore them and they'll eventually go away. Giving them attention in their minds, validates their efforts and encourages them to keep going. In theory - that is the best way to deal with it. But in practice, if you're the writer or friends with the writer, its damn near impossible not to defend yourself, your story, your reputation as a writer.

So whats the solution? Umm....I have no clue. But the good news is, and correct me if I'm wrong, GAFF's website crashed and burned some time ago so that leaves one less place for these types of people. The better archives are getting much more strict about flaming. Perhaps if enough people harass the archives that DO allow flames, they'll start enforcing a no flame policy just to shut everyone up. On an archive like FF.net though - its so big, I'm not sure you could do much other than avoid it and the people involved. Not sure that its a solution but it will be less likely that you'll run into this type of wank on a well-run archive.

Viv wrote:
Oh. Gotchca. Fans being mean to each other: Ick.

I think the original question was what should be
labelled AU and whether a label detracts from
readership.

My answers: First, all fanfiction should be labelled
AU, becuase it isn't canon. Anything any fic writer
writes is non-canon because it isn't written by the
work's original author (in our case, Tolkien). I'd
submit that even some of the conclusions Christopher
Tolkien has made concerning his father's incomplete
notes goes into the realm of AU.

Now, there's also that issue of whether labelling your
work AU is a bad thing or a good thing. Rhapsody is
saying here that the AU label can provoke attacks from
anti-AU sorts. But her and Juno's staunch defense of
AU stories (and slightly negative comments about
writers who try to stick to canon, even at the expense
of storytelling) indicate that there are folks who are
more than willing to read AU, and in fact might skip
over stories that *aren't* labelled AU.

So in the end, I would imagine that labels are up to
an author's discretion: label your story AU depending
on the readers you're hoping to attract.

viv

--- rhapsody_the_bard <rhapsody74@gmail.com> wrote:
> What I listed above however
> is something I do
> see people being nailed down publically for, peolpe
> organising
> themselves to terrorise or bully someone out of the
> Tolkien sandbox.
> It's real and it's happening, for a while now.
>
> Rhapsody

http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-900272397-1204937043=:45979-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1418 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22443 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 07:08:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 07:08:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.117) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 07:08:24 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 07:08:21 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 07:08:21 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 07:08:21 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:08:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=QlCgAoo6B4in5hTt2B36G-l-I4L318gwGkkq_o_w5ve4AMfK1GeX X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hey, all, Y'all have been busy! I go out for a few hours to a meeting and = ... sheesh. ;) Seriously, thank you to all who are participating in this d= iscussion. I'm really pleased to see some names I don't see often on this l= ist popping up more frequently! Keep it coming! :) This thread has gotten = so tangled that I am going to try to reply in a single email to all the com= ments that jumped out at me on a particular topic. Juno wrote: > I mean, w= e're social beings. We instinctively create communities and > in these comm= unities we set up "rules", informal and formal rules. AU > - canon, the aut= hor's wishes, those elements can serve to draw lines > in the proverbial sa= nd. Rules that ultimately say that's "us" and > that's "them". Yes yes yes= ! Rhapsody mentioned this too, but there is a (disturbing, imho) trend that= I see a lot on the Pit of Voles (fanfiction.net) lately. There is quite an= ongoing wankfest there between flamers and anti-flamers. I won't go much i= nto it beyond that, but I've been on some of the forums, and I see this a l= ot as a defense of why flaming is an acceptable--even noble!--activity: "T= he quality of fiction here has gone downhill lately. I write flames because= I'm trying to cleanse this site of badfic writers so that the goodfic writ= ers don't have their hard work constantly buried in drek." This is paraphr= ased because I don't remember the forum I saw it on (and am too lazy to try= to find it again XD), but this is basically the language that I've seen us= ed around ff.net: *cleanse* the site of badfic writers, like the badfic wri= ters are nasty germs that need to be eradicated. Like Rhapsy said, these p= eople have no investment in ff.net. They don't pay the bills, they didn't s= tart the site, they aren't admins. They don't *contribute* in any way excep= t to enforce their own vague notions of quality through bullying and aggres= sion. But what *is* that? Viv said, "The reader is always the one who has = the right to pass judgement on a story," and I completely agree with that: = We all have the right to like and dislike what we choose. In fact, I think = it's a good thing to learn to analyze stories in this way. I have learned a= lot by understanding what works for me and doesn't work for me in a story;= once I can pinpoint the strengths and "mistakes," I can more easily apply = that knowledge to my own writing. I think that the problem arises when we t= ry to turn our own definitions of quality into a universal standard. (And I= know that you weren't saying that, Viv ... but I think we all have known a= few people who would gladly do this if they could. ;) And this is where pr= oblems arise. "One man's trash is another man's treasure." It's cliched ..= . but it's so true. Those stories about purple-haired brides of Legolas as= tride silver unicorns sometimes have droves of positive reviews attached to= them. Sure, some would argue, it's all the writer's friends. But why does = that matter? Those friends like the story. I remember that when I was eleve= n years old, I thought that if I could one day write as well as V.C. Andrew= s, then I would be happy. (Yes, you all may now use that confession as blac= kmail against me. ;) Now, that thought alone mortifies me. My sense of qual= ity has clearly changed since then ... but why is 26-year-old Dawn's idea o= f quality inherently superior to 11-year-old Dawn's? 11-year-old Dawn would= probably be ashamed of how boring I've become. ;) I think we fall into th= e rut--and Juno touched on this too--of assuming that *our* concept of qual= ity or acceptable reasons for writing are superior to someone else's. After= all, we're the mature fans, the talented writers--many of us published--ha= ving highbrow conversations in our forums and on our email lists about Elve= n afterlife when the "other fans" are squeeing over omg Orlie Bloom is soo = hawwwt!!1! Why are we superior? We're not. Actually, I think the "other f= ans" probably find us a boring lot of pompous windbags who wouldn't know ho= w to truly *enjoy* a good book if it fell in our laps. ;) Who is right? No = one! We all enjoy the books and fandom in different ways, and there's nothi= ng wrong with that. But it comes back to Juno's issue of control. Some peo= ple feel the need to control what others write and the fun that others have= . They do this through a guise of education and enlightenment: "I'm trying = to teach you how to be a good writer. You'll thank me for this someday!" Bu= t not everyone writes to become a "good writer." Some people write to have = fun with their group of friends or to put their favorite characters togethe= r in a hot sexual pairing or simply to relax and let their imaginations run= wild after a tough day in "real life." Why are those reasons any less nobl= e than writing to become "good"? This doesn't even consider the fact that t= hese stories *are* good by the standards of many readers. I will note that= I think this is an entirely different issue from a particular archive tryi= ng to control what sorts of stories it accepts, either through restrictions= or a review process or something entirely different. (Ficwad uses scores, = I think, and relegates those that score low?) Some archives have taken heat= for this. I may not agree with an archive's policies ... so I don't post t= here. But that's a different matter, I think, than speaking of individuals = or groups of individuals trying to control what content is available on a p= articular site or even across an entire fandom. Dawn Felagund From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1419 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43388 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 07:17:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 07:17:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.144) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 07:17:42 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 07:17:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 07:17:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 07:17:42 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:17:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <508386.31373.qm@web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=15H-6iJpzilfYnSMDFGNkt9wh-ZSvT2owLnXT4iUgywsXrghCYFn X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Viv wrote: > Unfortunately, it also grants freedom for writers to > be lazy= . I've heard people say things like, "Oh, yeah, > I know that technically E= lrond only had three kids, > but this story is already labelled AU, so ..."= Once > you slap on an AU tag, you no longer have the > challenge of writin= g anywhere near the source > material. Do you think that this has to do, i= n part, with how people define AU differently? For example, to me, in a st= ory where Elrond has five kids and this change serves no purpose in the sto= ry, I view this as a mistake and not AU. To me, AU involves *intentionally*= changing an aspect of canon in the interest of the story. Or, to draw a p= arallel, if I write and admit that I don't care at all to stick to English-= language mechanical conventions, then my story might be utterly devoid of p= unctuation and capitalization. But that doesn't make my story experimental.= "Experimental" (imho) would be deliberately flaunting a convention in the = interest of the story. My lack of commas and capital pronoun "I" would stil= l be mistakes because they are neither deliberate nor essential to the stor= y. Nor is making canon mistakes out of laziness, imho, the same as AU. Wh= en I started this conversation, I was interested in how different people de= fine AU. Because, to me, it seems that there are a lot of definitions float= ing around out there, and the disparity sometimes leads to problems. Like t= his one. :) If I picked up an "AU" story and discovered that the "AU" was n= othing but a bunch of canon errors serving no purpose, then I would be disa= ppointed. I don't see AU like that at all. Dawn Felagund From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1420 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25590 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 10:37:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 10:37:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n36b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.150) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 10:37:53 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 10:37:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 10:37:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 10:37:53 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 10:37:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=U5TK_vxCsuTOjbT9bdhBNQBO4rRo9prS-pdU3FJKamltDlg9tg X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic He, you asked for it. And I'm now two pages behind with my work. *whines* = And why do you have to add more interesting things? Well, let's see: --= - In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > "The quality of fiction here has gone downhill lately. = I write flames > because I'm trying to cleanse this site of badfic writers = so that the > goodfic writers don't have their hard work constantly buried = in drek." I've seen that, too. Flame Rising and his cronies, for example. = The Battling Bard and her friends are just kiddies playing "I want to be li= ke Flame Rising" in comparison. And yes, that's VERY much the kind of lang= uage they use. As a historian those slogans scare me on profound level. Be= cause what's going on here reminds me horribly of real life history. There'= s a leader and his followers and they are on a crusade to cleanse the site = of drek. Well, if you've wondered how certain regimes come about, take a go= od look at the dynamics over there. The dynamics and the psychology are the= same. Thank goodness this is only about something "silly" as fanfic storie= s (or does that make it even more scary?)? And all too often this drek sim= ply equated with WHAT people write. AU, slash ... That's very much how raci= sm works, too, isn't it? To persecute stories for WHAT they are. And as we'= ve seen that often spills over into persecution of the authors, too. > >= But what *is* that? Viv said, "The reader is always the one who has > the = right to pass judgement on a story," and I completely agree with > that: We= all have the right to like and dislike what we choose. Yes, absolutely. = But I see a problem in how many people fail to distinguish between a well-= reasoned personal opinion and a well-reasoned critique. "I don't like it b= ecause Tolkien wouldn't have written it like that" - is a perfectly accepta= ble personal opinion (mkay, I'd say it's silly, but that's just MY personal= opinion). "This is bad because Tolkien wouldn't have written it like that= " - not what I'd call a well-reasoned critique. Of course Tolkien wouldn't = have written it like that, D'OH! That's kind of the point, no? "This is ba= d because your story stays generally true to what Tolkien wrote and here yo= u deviate from what he wrote for no apparent reason" - that sounds acceptab= le to me. > But it comes back to Juno's issue of control. Some people fee= l the > need to control what others write and the fun that others have. The= y > do this through a guise of education and enlightenment: "I'm trying to = > teach you how to be a good writer. You'll thank me for this someday!" Th= ere's this sense of mission out there, isn't it? I'm the "better" fan, and = I'll tell you what is acceptable to write and what is not. And some other t= hings besides. *snerk* > But not everyone writes to become a "good writer= ." Some people write > to have fun with their group of friends or to put th= eir favorite > characters together in a hot sexual pairing or simply to rel= ax and let > their imaginations run wild after a tough day in "real life." = Why are > those reasons any less noble than writing to become "good"? This = > doesn't even consider the fact that these stories *are* good by the > sta= ndards of many readers. > Yes, absolutely. Like my trashy novels. They ar= e bad writing. I can come up with long lists of examples of why they are. B= ut they obviously serve a purpose and have a market, or a big publisher wou= ldn't pay me good money to get them translated. He, I've blown off some st= eam that I've kept bottled up for four years. Feeling better now. *g* Che= ers, Juno *** "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupi= dity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1421 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92567 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 10:45:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 10:45:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n3.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.130) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 10:45:22 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.90] by n3.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 10:45:22 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 10:45:22 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 10:45:21 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 10:45:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=FNNdHZshkBIvOzfsorHukXnOpvX01v5MP7Sz2pruycd_jsuOvg X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Do you think that this has to do, in part, with how pe= ople define AU > differently? > I think in many ways the AU label in LOTR= fandom is no longer very useful, because it is used whenever someone devia= tes from what they think that OTHERS consider canon in a little way. The p= roblem, I think, is not AU. The problem is the meaning and impact of canon= in LOTR fandom and how it is used as a device to judge stories and their a= uthors. Cheers, Juno *** "Live as if your were to die tomorrow. Learn as= if you were to live forever." - Mahatma Gandhi From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1422 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63200 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 12:42:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 12:42:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 12:42:10 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 12:42:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 12:42:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 12:42:10 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:42:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: What is canon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=YKFukf1MTycWfV43d38i7S8zLHybBybaM0buvBOO1beD4zUa-Q X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic Sparked by yesterday's discussion here and on my lj, as well as Marta's fan= tasic essay, I offer a post about "What is canon?" and why I believe that t= he usefulness of the canon-argument for critiquing stories is limited: htt= p://juno-magic.livejournal.com/452022.html Cheers, Juno *** "Insanity: d= oing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -= Albert Einstein From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1423 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18524 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 14:43:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 14:43:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 14:43:13 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F0C58034 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:43:12 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:43:11 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:43:12 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <354559453.20080308154312@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: A side reflection on canon and poetic license X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ZimfVX5r4-nBCvzPgc6kkTv9Qz1FVwh8iFR0AqzhYPiwpWHEBBw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle *reposting again from yesterday as I typed address wrong, I wonder whewre it went then* Cut away from my previous post, I thought it should go separately. Prepare for messy contradictory thoughts at 4 AM. I still think I'm 'canatic' by heart, only my definition of canon gets different every day after rethinking this and that and I end up as AU lover, tired of "default common ideas what is canon" barriers. [Maybe I use wrong word here, but no matter what were inventor's intentions it sounds funny ;) ] But ask yourself if you are really that open to welcome any ideas and accept them? For a part of this discussions sounds a bit like tolerance declarations on TV. I haven't red it all, so don't get insulted, I get such impression from today's posts. It's too open minded and too kind to be real. Like let's give poetic license to everything. So get back down and imagine that freaky blond F�anor, scarred hiding in his forge. Cowardly Celegorm. Pedophiliac Finrod. Well imagine yourself what would be too much. There is an uncrossable border for everyone when poetic license becomes an insult. Different for everyone, but exists. For one person a fan fic itself will be insult for other a horde of orcs cross-dressed as belly dancers. There was a reason why we fell in love with this world, it has to us some charm and value. With love comes respect or this is not love. When I feel someone doesn't have this respect - and this is totally subjective - then I don't label it AU nor bad!fic but lack of respect and insult. Some people are insulted by Gandalf beating Denethor in the movie or Aragorn slaying the Mouth of Sauron - example outside of fan fiction fandom. I am not justifying flaming, negative labels and fandom wars. I'm just reminding you that people are different, have got different distance to the works of JRRT (and cultural background), see different things as acceptable and insultive. It is not just fictional world for every one. Some will wage holy wars on you not because they are evil, but because you defame and mar their love. To avoid it rethink your extremely twisted fanfic idea and ask yourself why the hell am I putting it in this world? Is it really still Tolkien's character? Am I telling anything with this story to enrich the world or just have fun with those people who treat Tolkien so seriously? Sometimes I really regret that I've stepped upon fan fiction and learnt of what people do with this world. Sometimes. There are too many fantastic stories to bother. And I've got my own insultive ideas, so I can't really take a stone in my hand and push at you freaks ;) BTW, OT - one clarification I meant to do ages ago but forgotten. When I ask canon questions here it's usually not regarding fan fiction but for pure canon's sake. Just adding it for I remembered a misunderstanding from a previous discussion. When I want to know Finw�'s eye's color I really want to find if that information was given in texts, not state if you can change it or not in your story. But it looks like I sometimes sound that way. It's because we don't use �sanwe-kenta, the famous communication of mind. Good night! Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1424 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4972 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 15:17:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 15:17:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n27c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.220) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 15:17:48 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 15:17:45 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 15:17:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:17:44 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <354559453.20080308154312@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Re: A side reflection on canon and poetic license X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=U8W7HnoSBHNjeTNQnBlPUwGNj1RdKU5PJ_Cz9kNoJXhTlMzmuQ X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > There is an uncrossable border for everyone when poetic license > b= ecomes an insult. Different for everyone, but exists. I think we must not= mix up the question of when a story becomes an insult with the question of= what is canon. What is canon - there are certainly limits to what can be = defined as canon and what cannot be defined as canon. Simple facts (such a= s Feanor's hair colour) rarely raise a problem and to be honest I think it'= s pretty ridiculous to get hung up on stuff like that. So I get the hair co= lour of an elf wrong. It's not canon, it's a simple mistake. Sure, that's v= alid criticism, but does that turn the story into AU? Does that one canon m= istake make the story bad? I don't think so. Beyond that there are many as= pects of an individual author's definition of canon that rest on a more or = less plausible interpretation of the sources that this author accepts as th= e basis of their canon. There are certainly limits for what is a plausible= definition for canon in that regard, too. But the spectrum of plausibility= is wide! And all of THOSE interpretations are equally valid. They are neit= her right nor wrong, they are more or less plausible, but they are all vali= d. What is an insult. An insult is to treat - in this case - the author o= r the reader or groups of readers with insolence, indignity, or contempt. = I've witnessed how several stories were judged to be "stories that defile c= anon". In one instance, it was simply an AU that the reviewer didn't like.= In another instance, it was a story that is infamous for its grossness (t= he infamous Celebr=EDan is an orc-whore story). I have no idea who wrote i= t or if it was written as an insult. But I think what it ends up being is n= ot so much an insult to Tolkien, but a parody of fanfic. As with everythin= g else in writing, all those boundaries are fluid. There are no absolutes i= n writing. And that's really what I miss most when "canon" used as a means= of critiquing stories. If I write a story about Boromir not dying, how m= uch sense does it make to comment and say "But that is not canon" or if you= write a story that has Legolas marrying a Gondorian princess "But that is = not canon". Yes, it's not canon. So what? Does that make the story good? Do= es that make the story bad? No. Good writing makes those stories good or ba= d. Another example: You can use the essay "Laws and Customs of the Eldar" = to argue that Elves are chaste before marriage (because they are monogamous= for the rest of their lives) and that they are married by having sex. You = can also argue that the essay says nothing about sex before marriage and th= at consummation of marriage (i.e. sex) is only necessary to render their ma= rriage legal. Another often quoted passage of the essay is the one about "= deeds of lust" not happening often among the Eldar. Interpreting that line= (and some of the Silm stories) to mean that cases of rape or unfaithfulnes= s DO happen, only not very often, is very plausible. So what to do with a= story that hinges on that interpretation? Cheers, Juno *** "When I hear= somebody sigh, 'Life is hard,' I am always tempted to ask, 'Compared to wh= at?'" - Sydney J. Harris From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1425 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25877 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 16:03:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 16:03:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 16:03:28 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E29E3E807E for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 17:03:27 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 17:03:26 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 17:03:27 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1801883930.20080308170327@tlen.pl> To: JunoMagic In-Reply-To: References: <354559453.20080308154312@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: A side reflection and poetic license [fixed subject] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=9wtOHmEXLzKYhJJtwsvqkFSeoRm6EQAVyXVfNc79Dq2OxSxJyG4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle >> There is an uncrossable border for everyone when poetic license >> becomes an insult. Different for everyone, but exists. J> I think we must not mix up the question of when a story becomes an J> insult with the question of what is canon. /Snap - that's different subject, we may discuss it later when I dig through the previous posts./ We do not understand each other. Forget the canon, forget fan fiction ghetto with it's archives and flaming reviews. I altered the subject because that 'canon' word brings confusion to what I am talking about. Canon discussions aside, this is not about scientific studies over JRRT works and digging meanings behind events but random original books reader's feelings. And what I am talking about is that people cherish the original books, love them and find as insult adding to them or changing too much in a way that is not acceptable. Which is different for everyone, from ridiculous details to huge plot issues. For example one of it's values to many is lack of sex inside the books. They are safe family books, suitable to grandpa and kid (not the Silmarillion IMO, but there are kids who have red it; level of carnage is comparable to other old kid's stories about cut which heads etc.). Simply what is not inside the books, doesn't belong to these books and doesn't belong to that world. If you dare to take someone's baby - creation - work of his life - and twist it your way stay true to the original or prepare that people will judge you for that. There is no poetical license when you cross borders moving inside of somebody else's word. You should be prepared for negative reaction. I feel you - authors - tend to forget you are recreating Tolkien's Work of Life, messing inside of it, taking his characters as yours. You're focused too much on you being authors than on him being the author. For example answer yourself a question - would I show my story to Priscilla or Christopher Tolkien and asked their opinion? If not, why? If yes, why? Would I get same response as Tolkien gave to someone in one of published letters? BTW, if that was another medium and you would alter it, posted on-line and defame the original you would get into trouble and you know of such issues better than me having more knowledge about law. But this is fan fiction and no one is treating seriously a dead man who wrote the original. Good for him he can's see us. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1426 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13855 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 16:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 16:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n47a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.141) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 16:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n47.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:13:26 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:13:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=J2jD_AwxYoZECbzf6p9F0uUJ-b1stzKHRgQkUQxBkU0lgq-JSf_PsmrL X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "JunoMagic" wrote: > Heh. Nothing like the arrival of one of the more passionate Gr= and Doyennes of fan ficdom to engender a lively thread! Thanks to you and = the other grand doyennes (oshun, Dawn) for answering my query directly. = I'll confess to being more than a little disingenuous in asking that questi= on as if I were some wide-eyed innocent. It's glaringly obvious that AU is = considered a negative label. I mean, in the drop-down menu of the SWG, "AU= " is given as a *warning* on par with violence, explicit sex, etc. I've lo= bbied for the warning "Heresy" myself. "Heterodoxy" would be good, too. :^)= Upon stumbling into the Tolkienian fan fiction party a little over a year= ago (I'm reminded of Bilbo and the Dwarves barging into the Wood-elves' sh= indig), I first read *Another Man's Cage* (honing in on my long-suffering s= cientist-hero and his family). Next up was *Loth=EDriel: Books 1 and 2." = Now at that time, "AU" - apart from thought exercises in theoretical physic= s and certain Star Trek scenarios - meant little to me. Likewise, I didn't= know that the "tenth walker" was such a reviled specimen. Or that there s= eemed to be these peculiar self-imposed rules within a given fandom or more= accurately, factions within any given fandom. What I read in "Loth=EDriel= : Tenth Walker!" was an excellent *story* that drew me into it with engagi= ng characters, good pacing, and an appealing style of wordsmithing. > = > > Additionally to that mixture mentioned above, I think a certain > cult= ure of entitlement and criticism has sprung up in the online > world. Heh.= I might know something about that from my other venue (shamefully neglect= ed as of late). We've received whole essays in our comments section there = (including those from a few from this message board who have wandered over = there :^)) which are very well thought out and invoke lively discussion. Th= at's par for the course over there. However, if the criticism is not *inte= lligent*, then all bets are off. > > So what can you criticise in a fanf= ic story? Well, one of the easiest > things to criticise is how it doesn't = match the original. That's MUCH > easier than going into the details of plo= t, characterisation and > style. Criticsing a story because Legolas would n= ever fall in love > with a human girl or because Tolkien's Elves would neve= r have > unmarried sex is an easy cop-out. You can point to the original an= d > say "But Tolkien said/didn't say ..." Yep. As per the remark above, t= his does not constitute an intelligent critique. > > Then there's the st= range bad!fic phobia originating at FFNet, my > beloved "Pit of Voles". Ah= , the "Pit of Voles!" I wandered in there as a lurker a while back, thanks= to comments by you and Dawn and by your distinction of getting the prestig= ious SMUG award. :^D These days, I visit ff.net for two reasons. The firs= t is to read a certain Potter-verse serial ;^). The other is my insatiably= morbid curiosity with those of the flamers/non-flamers camp - not to menti= on the self-styled creative writing mavens and their gifts to the world, so= me of which are useful, some of which are just so much stylistic opinions. = > > The criticism of AU as a genre is linked with the crusade against = bad!fic. Much of the hue and cry over there and in other places (*cough* M= ST4000 *cough*) against what doesn't pass muster is highly "fiskable" but a= la Lewis Black (an American comedian with an especially mordant sense of h= umor and one of my favorites), I'd just as soon stick a sharpened No. 2 pen= cil directly into my ear because *that* would be more pleasant than expendi= ng any neural energy on such supercilious twits. I'd *really* like to say t= hat they are as dumb as a box of foreskins, but in the interest of gentilit= y, I'll refrain. ;^) > > (Teenaged girls write AUs that contain pink-hai= red silver-eyed > heroines that ride unicorns to the rescue of Legolas and = then drag him > off kicking and screaming (in the throes of lust, of course= ) into the > sunset. Such infantile enjoyment of books, movies or pretty me= n must - > of course - be curbed from the start. We can't have that, bad!fi= c > should never ever be posted.) Yeah! Stone them! Stone them, I say! = Frankly, I think it's great to see adolescents *writing* no matter what the= subject and they should be *encouraged* to do so. Writing about pink hair,= unicorns and Legolas-abductions may very well be the first step for someon= e who will eventually become a skilled communicator in her chosen professio= n or art. One just never knows. The first time I heard the term "fan ficti= on" was via "Trekkies," the documentary movie. Let's say I didn't form a pa= rticularly good impression of it based on that. But then my kid - at the t= ime 11 or 12 - started writing Harry Potter fan fic. Now keep in mind that= my opinion is colored by a mother's eyes, but my daughter's stories (adven= ture based, no romance) were well-written for a kid her age. I warmed up m= ore to the idea since her involvement in fan fiction contributed to her com= munication skills. Were her stories high art? No. Where they fun and a g= ood brain-exercise? Yes! > > Of course that rather begs the question ho= w a discerning adult can > possibly fail to realise that a story falls into= this category based > on three simple elements: the title of the story, th= e penname of the > author, and last but not least, the summary. > > Okay = - so maybe I'm a genius (which I rather doubt *snork*) - but I've > been re= ading fanfic since 2004 and I have *never* walked blind into > bad!fic. Hmp= f. > > > But that raises an interesting point - does something that *might= * > > rankle the original author count as AU? > > > > I think another par= t of the AU arguments is the desire of human beings > to control others. > = > I mean, we're social beings. We instinctively create communities and > i= n these communities we set up "rules", informal and formal rules. AU > - ca= non, the author's wishes, those elements can serve to draw lines > in the p= roverbial sand. Rules that ultimately say that's "us" and > that's "them". = > > My experience with LOTR/Silm fandom is that it's very formally > struc= tured, with very inflexible rules. There are many stable > sub-communities = and the AU/canon question seems to be a way to > distinguish them from each= other. The "us" vs. "them" question seems > more important than in other f= andoms, too. Hobbits vs. Elves, Slash > vs. Gen. Silm vs. LOTR etc. Grante= d, I don't get around in fandom as much as some, but you've articulated her= e my observations (admittedly limited) accumulated over the past year and s= ome months. > > In other fandoms the fault lines are different. For exam= ple, due to > its development HP fandom is much more AU friendly. Canon is = split > multiple times between the different volumes and additionally betwe= en > the books and the movies. Now that the last book is published, that > = may change of course. > > The issue of authorial approval or more general,= the weight of the > author's intent, is a hot topic over there, too, howev= er. Interesting observations on how the various fan fiction cultures vary.= I suppose a thesis (or two) has been written on the subject. > > And f= or my own writing ... I write what I want to write. The idea that > I might= refrain from writing something because of the possible > disapproval of re= aders Or conversely, that you would write what would appeal to the masses= . We see this frequently on the Refuge. The site meter pegs out due to one= of kemibe's "culture wars" rants (immensely popular among the "Leonardo" c= rowd*) whereas my more measured science-based pieces (as per the original c= harter of that whole blogging community) get fewer reads. Yet now and then= , I'll get a fabulous comment from a reader or a link through a high-profil= e online journal which keeps me from jettisoning my involvement there. Si= milarly, with regard to my creative hackery here, I write with the understa= nding that I'll garner a more limited audience. I've joked around with oshu= n, noting that I write *for* about a half-dozen people, but what a half-doz= en they are! :^D Anyway, back to the AU label. I slap it - and will conti= nue to do so - on my hackery with *pride*, negative connotations be damned.= OK, now I'll admit the whole blond F=EBanor/ blond Aragorn thing was thou= ght-provoking. And here I am wondering how Darwinian evolution can be acco= mmodated in Arda instead of Tolkien's Lamarckism. Silly me! :^D > > Lab= els, such as canon or AU or crossover or whatever, they are of no > concern= to me at all. The story comes first. To reiterate, *WORD*! (I hope that w= as emphatic enough.) > > Uh... I'm very sorry for rambling like that (it'= s all Dawn's fault). > If you can't yammer here, where else can you yamme= r? Oh, wait... ;^) Thanks again for articulating your thoughts which in f= act are quite coherent and not at all rambling. ------- *"Leonardos" - Th= ese are - according to a survey conducted for a study that examined the rel= ationship between consumers and science - mostly men in their 30's and midd= le to upper class; they are named after da Vinci for their avid, Renaissanc= e-style interest in science as well as subjects like art and politics. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1427 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20586 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 16:31:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 16:31:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.252) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 16:31:06 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:31:06 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:31:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:31:06 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:31:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=fIOtCWyVVUgyACWI5KtFYfsIG-nJq2g6r8KHadBqiq6W31wwX1K60luQ X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > Actually, I think the "other fans" probably find us a = boring lot of > pompous windbags Not that there's anything *wrong* with t= hat! (Being boring pompous windbags, that is. ;^)) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1428 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30748 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 16:45:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 16:45:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.139) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 16:45:03 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:45:03 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:45:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:45:03 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:45:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=ScwnxdANxZiUDE-9X7RcLp80duKmxHwE5vK_IiXtxZUUkpnsmg X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn= Felagund" > wrote: > > > > > Actually, I think the "oth= er fans" probably find us a boring lot of > > pompous windbags > > Not th= at there's anything *wrong* with that! (Being boring pompous > windbags, th= at is. ;^)) > Not to mention unbearably SMUG. ;-) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1429 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22541 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 16:50:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 16:50:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 16:50:32 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531F174807A for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 17:50:28 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 17:50:27 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 17:50:28 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <588623157.20080308175028@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <508386.31373.qm@web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: Defining AU - yes! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=zNSIIqF4VFZ4HGxaGSphlgCxNu6EwGIG__b-46537hrJaGm2stI X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> To me, AU involves *intentionally* changing an aspect of canon DF> in the interest of the story. Exactly. You need to know the base - that vague fluid monster of canon - to write AU. You can't cover lack of knowledge with that label. Unfortunately it was used too many times that way thus so many people see AU as negative. Good example with grammar, that's it. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1430 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45259 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 16:57:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 16:57:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n8.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.135) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 16:57:49 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n8.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:57:49 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:57:49 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 16:57:49 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:57:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <588623157.20080308175028@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Re: Defining AU - yes! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=AmAU737tMejUZ0nKlRqzsyySwyxTpyzinf_2zq04SwV1a-hLEA X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: >You need to know the base - that vague fluid monster of canon > - to= write AU. You can't cover lack of knowledge with that label. > I'd say = the same goes for "canon" - I've seen how lazy writers use the label of "Bu= t it's canon" to justify gaps and dragging story lines a number of times. = Which brings me back to wondering just how useful labels are to begin with = ... apart from finding what you might want to read quicker ... Cheers, Jun= o *** "It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can o= nly do a little. Do what you can." - Sydney Smith From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1431 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47563 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 17:07:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 17:07:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 17:07:45 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79A73E809F for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 18:07:43 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 18:07:42 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 18:07:44 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <42729256.20080308180744@tlen.pl> To: JunoMagic In-Reply-To: References: <588623157.20080308175028@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Defining AU - yes! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=xtWc7mb5qPGP0HR9rbvwEUItc2jJgKsk71YqgiabSTALIMTwnVg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai JunoMagic, J> I'd say the same goes for "canon" - I've seen how lazy writers use the J> label of "But it's canon" to justify gaps and dragging story lines a J> number of times. Fan fiction per definition is for fans = those who know the base, so some explanations aren't necessary, because we all know them. But I guess you're speaking of something else. Defining what is canon is... almost impossible. There are too many levels and stages of canon. As many people that many definitions will be. J> Which brings me back to wondering just how useful labels are to begin J> with ... apart from finding what you might want to read quicker ... Yes. Apart being misleading when used improperly. BTW, I just red pandemonium's remark that 'AU' label is among warnings on SWG, IMO it should be not. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1432 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6709 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 17:42:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 17:42:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.227) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 17:42:35 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 68so447667wri.15 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 09:42:35 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.150.182.17 with SMTP id e17mr1243404ybf.190.1204998154730; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 09:42:34 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i52sm10874667rne.9.2008.03.08.09.42.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 08 Mar 2008 09:42:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47D2D015.8060000@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:42:45 -0500 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: an SSP of a sort - on the whole AU thread X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=qAuu6KCkUqk-FVBNnTSbBOzFdl1i5q7IncilnblO5RAZHt53afbU1g X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hey guys, I've been trying to follow the fascinating thread on canon, thinking I didn't have a chance of keeping up let alone contributing, but it was all so fascinating I couldn't quite back away. You guys have made some really, really good points and definitely got my creative juices flowing. Juno posted one of her comments in her LJ, and I started to reply. But before I knew it, I was off and running on my own essay on how I viewed the whole issue. If you're interested, you can find my essay "To AU or Not to AU?" at http://telperion1.livejournal.com/99357.html Despite the title, only a small part of it has to do with the AU subject directly. I look a little bit at the claim that all fanfic is AU, and try to draw a distinction between stories that tell a story outside the timeline Tolkien wrote about versus the ones that actually contradict what he said. (Also, fair warning - most of the examples I use are LOTR rather than Silm-ish. This was because I write mostly LOTR stuff, though I enjoy Silmfic. I still think the issues are relevant.) I thought some people might be interested. And I hope someone hasn't already linked to it! Because, like I said, I haven't even been able to read all the emails. But what I have read was definitely inspiring. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1433 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92342 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 19:01:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 19:01:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0910.google.com) (209.85.198.190) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 19:01:44 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c27so549566rvf.10 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:01:43 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.140.125.1 with SMTP id x1mr2024616rvc.287.1205002903933; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:01:43 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:01:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:01:43 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <354559453.20080308154312@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11039_8032706.1205002903924" References: <354559453.20080308154312@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] A side reflection on canon and poetic license X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=sZ9cWVmmpe0U1MBgG38ol1m5MxZmMzR5w1e4QJrQzrMXrEH22Sxf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11039_8032706.1205002903924-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1434 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2388 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 19:10:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 19:10:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 19:10:13 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 631843E806C for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:10:12 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:10:12 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:10:13 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1172625434.20080308201013@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <354559453.20080308154312@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: tenth-walker X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=16xPdTRt3hsgBMhmrG5N4RLZylD5qcFxDHda-THhCTKOvpgsTbQ X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> or tenth-walker stories What are these stories? I haven't met that therm before. BTW, I have found my lost post, it went to Silmfics Yahoo group. Lol. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1435 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25795 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 19:17:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 19:17:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.238) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 19:17:01 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 60so737604wri.6 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:17:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.36.1 with SMTP id j1mr851574waj.119.1205003821179; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:17:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:17:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:17:01 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11108_18962166.1205003821200" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=j-revkDZ-tAgaj5eB-kLEvydcic9YENID083RId1qXGXPTCVES9f X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11108_18962166.1205003821200-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1436 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84934 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 19:24:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 19:24:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 19:24:38 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5D1058023 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:24:37 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:24:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:24:38 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1948997549.20080308202438@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=t1zZ1A28PsTJQgPgsLR8mLLATm0xhBT6n4dSG33vgxu6aRleqPQ X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> Would you prefer it to be a genre rather than a warning? Genre. This is what is is to me. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1437 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4284 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 19:24:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 19:24:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.181) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 19:24:58 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j32so1016226waf.19 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:24:57 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.144.1 with SMTP id r1mr769140wad.53.1205004297380; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:24:57 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:24:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:24:57 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1172625434.20080308201013@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11151_8580529.1205004297367" References: <354559453.20080308154312@tlen.pl> <1172625434.20080308201013@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] tenth-walker X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=qUNIHjnX8p-uYNNZI-b2mnwMgmTxUQcrxzCVWns_Jfu7fUzx0xol X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11151_8580529.1205004297367-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1438 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5609 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 19:25:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 19:25:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.191) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 19:25:10 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 19:25:10 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 19:25:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 19:25:10 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 19:25:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1172625434.20080308201013@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Re: tenth-walker X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=Vyp2slh_196JDKjhbPjOa348ZU7JpmGDuwgwkr4Gy1pAWi8Ypg X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai Dawn, > > DF> or tenth-walker stories > > What are these stor= ies? I haven't met that therm before. > "Tenth Walker" stories are AU sto= ries that introduce a tenth companion for the quest of the fellowship in LO= TR. Often this will be a woman/girl who then falls in love with one of the = canon characters. They can be a lot of fun! I've written a huge big "Tent= h Walker Novel" about a German law student called Loth=EDriel who ends up i= n Middle-earth. If you're curious, you can find it here: http://www.fanfic= tion.net/s/2025095/1/Loth_riel Cheers, Juno *** "There is no reality exc= ept the one contained within us. That is why so many people live such an un= real life. They take the images outside them for reality and never allow th= e world within to assert itself." - Hermann Hesse From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1439 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91918 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 19:25:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 19:25:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 19:25:46 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so1285319waf.3 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:25:46 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.115.109.1 with SMTP id l1mr797487wam.90.1205004345646; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:25:45 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:25:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:25:45 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1948997549.20080308202438@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11159_30175678.1205004345636" References: <1948997549.20080308202438@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rJHGC2pWUJrIqiUkjXc_qbzk40_twwtfexdemMazd_Tfxt_OzBxt X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11159_30175678.1205004345636-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1440 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87686 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 19:36:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 19:36:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO fk-out-0910.google.com) (209.85.128.189) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 19:36:44 -0000 X-Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so1184724fks.4 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:36:43 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.82.150.20 with SMTP id x20mr7297453bud.16.1205005003160; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:36:43 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z34sm11276252ikz.8.2008.03.08.11.36.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:36:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47D2EAD8.7060406@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:36:56 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=1tWuCJ5LYenOgMWEClhYeSjEw7_lgJ1-ls8z9knmk9kbN6PSmWqu-CE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Dawn Felagund wrote: > On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 11:13 AM, pandemonium_213 > wrote: >> I mean, in the drop-down menu >> of the SWG, "AU" is given as a *warning* on par with violence, >> explicit sex, etc. I've lobbied for the warning "Heresy" myself. >> "Heterodoxy" would be good, too. :^) > > Okay, then, I will open this issue to the group: What would you all like to > do with the AU label? > > Would you prefer it to be a genre rather than a warning? (Also, note that > SWG allows you to select as many genres as you would like. So adding AU to > your story wouldn't force you to remove another genre under which you'd like > to have it classified.) Au as a genre always made more sense to me. I am trying to catch up with posts, but I can't remember how AU ended up as a warning in the first place. I know that as a beta tester I asked a lot of questions about warnings, but I can't recall if I ever frowned upon that. :) > However, the same purpose could be served as a genre rather than a warning. > But this is why it was originally included as such. :) (Interesting, my > draft of the site when it was still in beta had "HoMe-based" as a warning. > But that sounded silly ... entirely too evocative of baseball for my liking. > ;) And I've yet to come up with a suitable substitute.) Why if I may ask? What is the purpose of the archive: having stories that are only based on the *book* Silmarillion or do we have stories dealing with events/characters/plotlines from the Silmarillion but can come from any source published under the professor's name (including UT, HOME, the Letters). I always thought of the latter, so having a HoMe-based warning doesn't make sense to me at all. Then I'd also think we have to have a warning for UT, the letters, the magazine of which I can't recall the name... > So, everyone, let me know if you have a thought on this! :) *drops her 2 eurocents* Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1441 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34463 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 19:42:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 19:42:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.100) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 19:42:17 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 2003 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2008 19:42:11 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: j5Y4kh0VM1lOzoTMns9VAeluc.QqowRNCFccAE4Q9sH6xbqcn91sqC4F2MnC7K489v.4M6iSCi5GRfXfEOSBZWpS_HHbR1A3tpTwT8_2I9ZHWSRNG38- X-Received: from [98.16.33.231] by web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:42:10 PST Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:42:10 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-727337251-1205005330=:1939" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <185980.1939.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] tenth-walker X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=C3jD4WQfYzq0pc_Ud892YkiMNGSO2qqbf82vBjR-X0FPFutg5w X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-727337251-1205005330=:1939 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dawn PS--I smiled when I saw your lost post suddenly appear. Yahell is acting strangely lately. Yesterday, about half of the posts were going into spam, where Rhapsody luckily rescued them all. So--this goes to everyone--if your posts disappear, this might be why. If you don't see them in a couple of hours, drop a line to me or to moderator AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org, and we'll see what we can do. :) Yeah one of mine got delayed and I was beginning to think no one could see them or something but I think that mostly my posts weren't relevant enough to reply to. lol Dawn Felagund wrote: Hi, Sirielle! Tenth-walker stories belong to LotR exclusively. They're the stories where authors add a tenth walker to the Fellowship, often themselves. Many people believe that "tenth-walker" goes hand-in-hand with "Mary Sue"; these stories are even banned on some archives. Juno wrote a tenth-walker novel that is highly regarded, which is probably why tenth-walker keeps getting brought up on a Silm list. She's kind of "known" for it. *waves to Juno* ;) But as far as illustrating the inherent bias or dislike against AU, tenth-walker is an excellent example. Dawn PS--I smiled when I saw your lost post suddenly appear. Yahell is acting strangely lately. Yesterday, about half of the posts were going into spam, where Rhapsody luckily rescued them all. So--this goes to everyone--if your posts disappear, this might be why. If you don't see them in a couple of hours, drop a line to me or to moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and we'll see what we can do. :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-727337251-1205005330=:1939 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dawn

PS--I smiled when I saw your lost post suddenly appear. Yahell is acting strangely lately. Yesterday, about half of the posts were going into spam, where Rhapsody luckily rescued them all. So--this goes to everyone--if your posts disappear, this might be why. If you don't see them in a couple of hours, drop a line to me or to moderator AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org, and we'll see what we can do. :)

Yeah one of mine got delayed and I was beginning to think no one could see them or something but I think that mostly my posts weren't relevant enough to reply to. lol


Dawn Felagund wrote:
Hi, Sirielle!

Tenth-walker stories belong to LotR exclusively. They're the stories where authors add a tenth walker to the Fellowship, often themselves. Many people believe that "tenth-walker" goes hand-in-hand with "Mary Sue"; these stories are even banned on some archives.

Juno wrote a tenth-walker novel that is highly regarded, which is probably why tenth-walker keeps getting brought up on a Silm list. She's kind of "known" for it. *waves to Juno* ;)

But as far as illustrating the inherent bias or dislike against AU, tenth-walker is an excellent example.

Dawn

PS--I smiled when I saw your lost post suddenly appear. Yahell is acting strangely lately. Yesterday, about half of the posts were going into spam, where Rhapsody luckily rescued them all. So--this goes to everyone--if your posts disappear, this might be why. If you don't see them in a couple of hours, drop a line to me or to moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and we'll see what we can do. :)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-727337251-1205005330=:1939-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1442 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32853 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 19:56:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 19:56:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.245) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 19:56:44 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 55so915998hsc.10 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:56:43 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.141.63.20 with SMTP id q20mr2057717rvk.258.1205006203421; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:56:43 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:56:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:56:43 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47D2EAD8.7060406@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11271_9050432.1205006203423" References: <47D2EAD8.7060406@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xfQm_6yaK5qhONVkzqQv7CG5LsYPpHXxT3dgiuoS3fLC-NtvynE- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11271_9050432.1205006203423-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1443 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57105 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 20:00:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 20:00:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 20:00:02 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id v27so1299827wah.4 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:00:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.88.1 with SMTP id l1mr800918wab.79.1205006400903; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:00:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:00:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:00:00 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <185980.1939.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11278_31220835.1205006400891" References: <185980.1939.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] tenth-walker X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=gRNOSRwg25xdjDTS3laejz1QLZIlkqPgTpL2pdOy6JkN3Q5rygUI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11278_31220835.1205006400891-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1444 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92603 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 20:04:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 20:04:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.140) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 20:04:09 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 20:04:09 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 20:04:09 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 20:04:09 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:04:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <185980.1939.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Re: tenth-walker X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=PoDzgH_R5mJed0bUujB_WnrJqSdiSdcy21c82GPGUftTAiPp9g X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > Yeah one of mine got delayed and I was beginning to think n= o one could see them or something but I think that mostly my posts weren't = relevant enough to reply to. lol > Nope, they were very relevant and nice= ly worded - found myself nodding in appreciation. I just had nothing to add= really! Cheers, Juno *** "The universe is full of magical things, patie= ntly waiting for our wits to grow sharper." - Eden Phillpotts From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1445 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60474 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 20:06:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 20:06:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.243) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 20:06:42 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 55so918913hsc.10 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:06:41 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.141.34.12 with SMTP id m12mr2122357rvj.26.1205006801421; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:06:41 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:06:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:06:41 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47D2D015.8060000@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11299_21389363.1205006801426" References: <47D2D015.8060000@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] an SSP of a sort - on the whole AU thread X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YzeJvOWOqak6xo--9uRHgY4HHPX41BNydnisopA-MjgqUAKZG2UD X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11299_21389363.1205006801426-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1446 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17253 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 20:38:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 20:38:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO fg-out-1718.google.com) (72.14.220.153) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 20:38:54 -0000 X-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 16so796040fgg.36 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:38:53 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.86.99.9 with SMTP id w9mr3636291fgb.44.1205008733430; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:38:53 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t2sm10273362gve.3.2008.03.08.12.38.51 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:38:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47D2F96E.70908@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:39:10 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <47D2D015.8060000@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] an SSP of a sort - on the whole AU thread X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=ADZkICG_SGOFVctNaZ4sQ7I3JgWIBafGpGRIX6p1xXxwDDtZIburKH8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Dawn Felagund wrote: > Thank you, Marta, for the link! It's an excellent essay, highly recommended > to everyone. :) > > My particular favorite part is this: > > "--It's not uncanonical because it contradicts your personal interpretation > of a character. Even if you really, really believe that's how Tolkien meant > that character - if it doesn't contradict something Tolkien wrote, it's > still canonical. > > --It's not uncanonical if it breaks a fanon. "Study, to show thyself > approved," to borrow a phrase. It's unreasonable to expect every author to > work in those little fannish inventions that you think are so believable you > can hardly imagine the books' events without them. If you're going to tell > someone they're wrong or be disappointed, make sure you actually understand > the canon yourself. > > Canon is what Tolkien wrote. Not what you personally think, not what you * > think* he wrote -- what actually came out of his typewriter." > > Such an excellent point that I think gets lost so often in these canon > debates! So little is actually canon. For one, there are dozens of fanons > flying around, many of which people *do* believe are canon. Yeah that comment made me nod as well :) > (What is Nerdanel's hair color? Was Maglor's hand scarred by the Silmaril? Who was > the gentlest of the sons of Feanor? ... Do we actually *know* the answers to > any of these? That might be the better question. :) And even canon "facts" > deserve scrutiny because its also canon that Tolkien's stories are meant to > be read as histories and weren't written from an omniscient, unbiased PoV. Hmmm well as for Maglor's hand, I am still searching (when I have time) to find the answer to that (I still firmly believe I read it *somewhere* in canon), but until I find it it remains Rhapsy!verse or Rhapsy!fanon. And that is an idea I don't mind that at all though :) At a certain moment you have to let go and start to enjoy your hobby instead of worrying if you got this detail and that detail right. I do try to my best and as a 'canon' writer I do think I get far, but foremost I make sure that my story comes across because well, if a reader can't get past page 1, then all your carefully researched bits will be for naught. It's for that reason why writing in the historical genre of OF you spent roughly 90% of the time of getting the novel published on getting the details right (I have read about examples where the author got comments from his audience during a lecture that his novel was not correct by not getting the details right, and it bothered the writer a lot). Tolkien is still foremost fantasy, so I say: let your own ideas roam freely within that world. Many roads lead to Rome and as long if the road you're on makes it a pleasant read, then I don't care if it's canon, AU or whatever label gets smacked on it. I just read. > I made a little rule for myself a few years ago after being embarrassed one > too many times by spreading misinformation. When I think that a canon fact > is wrong, then I look it up. I offer a quote or a citation, not my own > damning, "This is WRONG!" And you know what? Sometimes these "facts" of > which I am so certain are nowhere to be found in the books! That is actually > how I discovered most of the fanons listed earlier. If I can't find it, then > I keep my mouth shut, no matter how certain I am that "I know I saw that > before!" *smiles* As I commented on Marta's post on LJ: off all the truckload I have read of Tolkien's work and for a while I did not litter the books with post its (something I did start to do though after we talked about this I dunno, more than 2 years ago?, although recently I found my kid with one of my books removing all the posts its from a Home book...): it's nearly impossible to remember it all. That is why I sometimes wonder where people so adamantly claim that something is canon where canon at the same time can contradict it! I yet have to meet that person who knows every winy eeny detail in the professor's works (even the professor lost track from time to time). For a hobby, I rather want to relax than worry about what others might think of it. Some things are just not worth it, imho. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1447 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95309 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 21:02:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 21:02:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 21:02:09 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 500E858027 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:02:05 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:02:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:02:05 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <8410699125.20080308220205@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <354559453.20080308154312@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] A side reflection on canon and poetic license X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=9tlP5SS1_uDpEmui8OM2mwRM0H25lR_d1tCoqWGPyP7ZOkKrHs4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> I know that my posts are among those. I get called a pie-eyed DF> idealist in fandom and in "real life" for good reason. 8^) And I yet have to dig to them all ;) DF> Who gets to decide who crosses the line into DF> territory that is disrespectful and insulting? For the books in discussion it would be JRRT, but he has no voice anymore. I've seen Rowling's example in discussion, though out of context (have to dig earlier for that). But if she as creator asks her fandom of something then fandom should obey it if they really respect her. If a need to create despite author's pleas is stronger then do whatever you want, but share it only in a close group with alike minds, do not post it openly and offend the author. Simple. DF> While I'd never dare draw a parallel between not being able to publish an DF> off-the-wall fanfic with the actual discrimination faced by people DF> because of race, gender, religion, orientation, and so on, then I DF> think that the same dynamic is often at work: the "us versus them." I agree - to both not making parallels to discrimination and freedom of speech while talking about fan fiction. And I agree there is "us versus them" as I remember Battling Bard's example I saw 'in action'. DF> So who gets to decide? In the absence of a just answer to DF> this question, my answer has to be no one. No one, for the universe, everyone for themselves. DF> But as I understand it, you are speaking more of the difficulty in DF> achieving a universal notion of respect. Yes - I was talking generally and not only about archives, majority of fandom I guess do not read nor write fan fiction nor visit archives. But if they stepped upon them they would have their opinion, as everyone. And AFAIK most of them have no idea what is going on inside the fan fiction fandom. I would divide this as a sub-fandom with a different approach to the original. DF> But I think its success hinges on one very important DF> thing: personal accountability. As it is now, many expect almost DF> all accountability to fall on the writers. I get this impression DF> from your post as well--and please do correct me if I'm wrong: To clarify - to me every creator is responsible for their creation and can't hide under artistic license not matter what type of art they do - stories, bridges, paintings, street performances, journalism. And there are universal uncrossable borders (which change with time). Coming to fan fiction - my post was not going to say that you as author bear the blame thus and can be flamed. But to remind you about the other side of the coin. DF> In my eyes, this puts the full burden on the writer: "You are DF> being disrespectful, so you deserve what's coming. And you should DF> understand that people are behaving like heathens toward you DF> because you have desecrated something that they love." There is no DF> similar burden on the reader, and there should be. Yes. That's explanation why they behave like that, not excuse for their deeds. You know what you are doing, so be prepared. It's like you try to explain behavior of a criminal to understand why they committed a crime and what to do to avoid it in the future. And being prepared. Not to justify such criminal because of their traumatic childhood and set them free. You know that attitudes based on emotions are hardest to change and people basing on them will not behave rationally. So against reason they will read what they hate and flame because you just trashed their holiness. (Plus another reasons for flaming recidivists). There is no room for discussion here, they have to see through it themselves with time, if they ever get distance. And they should get it for it's fan fiction not politics nor religion. Again, I am not justifying flame crusades, but ask you to stop aside for a while, get distance to all and acknowledge the fact that you're not playing with your own characters and world. And others same as you treat it as theirs and will react to it rationally or not depending on their attitude. If you want to play with flame be prepared, get armed (I still feel plate armour is fancy but it's up to you, some modern materials are better) and remember of the other side of the coin. Reader is responsible for what they read, you for what you write. There are uncrossable borders in original fiction, too, but to me poetical license is way more limited in fan fiction. I am no one to tell you what to do with your original characters of your original universe. But I have a right to see defamation if you play too hard with characters of Tolkien. Only I will not read it, and if I happen to I will not leave you feed back, not flame intended one at least, maybe I'll rant on that to someone in private, but that's all. Yet some people can't stop on that and you need to be prepared and understand it may happen and why. DF> For example--and we all know that this happens--if someone DF> seeks out slash stories just to tell that writer how offended s/he DF> is, then why is the burden for that person's offense on the DF> writer? I hope I cleared it above. And this person has got probably problems with their own sexuality given they seek the subject over and over again and even try to write a pastiche with medical details. Referring to one real example now. A fascination they can't acknowledge to themselves. That's my personal opinion on the subject. And such crusader should face responsibility for their behavior on administrative level - archives do have moderators. Flamers act on mixture of "judging parent" and "kid", should get response from "adult", the less emotional the better and get ignored. Maybe that's one of ways. I'm referring to Transactional analysis here, which seems to work often in social situations. Getting into their state and responding on the same level will bring only harm, nothing more. DF> There is very little mystery in fandom. I don't know of a DF> single archive that lets a writer post a story without a rating. There are people who constantly don't read descriptions, don't check ratings (some don't even know them) etc. How many times people on dA get mad and type in bold "read the description first!" Before you ask what was already described there. But as I already stated - I was not referring to archives only but to general reason and fact which seems to be fading behind horizon here - the poetical license borders. Too much "I, me, mine", with loosing the fact it's "you" but not "yours". This is also guilt of the language we use here - it's impossible to say anything in English without "I", which is changing point of view to world, too. Anyway - remember in whose playground you are and whose toys you use. He can't take them away. Respect gift giver and his toys and leave them clean for others, in the same shape as he left them. If you're doing nasty stuff with them don't tell of it everyone or you'll get nasty feedback from those who can't stand what you've done. DF> But, I can hear some thinking, what of those who don't use DF> warnings or who use them improperly? We as readers are still DF> accountable for what we read. If I click on a story and am so DF> offended by the portrayal of Feanor that I can't stand the DF> thought, then it is my responsibility to stop reading that story. Completely agree. DF> My offense does not give me a right to hold the author accountable DF> for what I have chosen to continue reading. Again. And I was never going to say opposite. But you are still in "author defensive mode" so you have red my words that way. Also subject is emotional to me, so even if I try to be mature I may act like a kid. Was I in "kinslayer mode" when I wrote that? And I agree to all you have written about respect from human to human, no need to quote. DF> And telling an author something like, "You write slash, I DF> wish I was alone in a closet with you with an automatic weapon," A legal action can be taken against such commentor, am I right? And should be, at least on archive administrative level. Make a print screen in case they would delete the comment. Have ever such thing happened in SWG? I haven't met such behavior so far, but I used to visit ff.net in 2005, my later appearance is quite random to remind what was that story name I liked. DF> And that's a pie-eyed idealist's view of the world. 8^) Ha, I told you words and language are barrier, we may agree more than we sound. And disagree while we think we do agree. Language will mess it all. I still stay firm on that whenever one wants to write a fan fic they should respect the original. On a final note - we've had similar discussion on art forum where people were defending themselves with artistic license or not taking responsibility for commissioned pieces message because artists can't be judged by their art. Guess what my state on that is. And I measure myself the same so yes I am responsible for my words and my artworks. There are universal borders which can't be crossed without consequences. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1448 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90033 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 21:05:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 21:05:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 21:05:54 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 920AE3E80D0 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:05:53 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:05:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:05:54 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1454072826.20080308220554@tlen.pl> To: JunoMagic In-Reply-To: References: <1172625434.20080308201013@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: tenth-walker X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=MEZzsvIdkaakw6zXosQFIW5Hs8oRk_h0F0yRhA9VbzqdwCF2R24 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Thank you both for explanation. Ai JunoMagic, J> They can be a lot of fun! whiskey with Melko ;D J> I've written a huge big "Tenth Walker Novel" about a German law J> student called Loth�riel who ends up in Middle-earth. J> If you're curious, you can find it here: J> http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2025095/1/Loth_riel Bookmaking :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1449 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4023 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 21:11:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 21:11:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 21:11:56 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CECD5802F for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:11:55 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:11:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:11:53 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <506542529.20080308221153@tlen.pl> To: Rhapsody In-Reply-To: <47D2EAD8.7060406@gmail.com> References: <47D2EAD8.7060406@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=Uhxx7TcKElPOGHhz21gYJZUZKceyz8Z4qxev4GuwCF6Dpp5dW4c X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, R> Then I'd also think R> we have to have a warning for UT, the letters, the magazine of which I R> can't recall the name... "Parma Eldalamberon". You see in one of recent issues Tolkien states in a late note that no Elda had black hair, that kinda spoils raven haired Feany, so a warning is a MUST. Other way I might faint stumbling upon his majestiness with brown hair! ;D Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1450 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60476 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 21:20:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 21:20:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.114) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 21:20:06 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 21:20:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 21:20:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 21:20:06 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:20:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=h0L1v4RFpI4KuPfWBw9dwm9lc9hEt7Iqm0Tf7gYFWH1huA8 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 < "Warning" has such negative connotations, but unfortunately it is the wo= rd that is used in fandom and is guaranteed to be well understood. (We can= also change this term, if anyone has a better idea.) It doesn't mean, "Be= ware! This is bad!" It is intended to be used as a guide in helping reader= s to choose the stories they wish to read.> In very general terms (Sex / S= lash / Violence...) IMO 'Warning' is fine. You are covering a multitude of= bases with this tag, including all this parental control stuff (speaking = from total inexperience here!) - so for adults you mean 'Please note...' a= nd for young teens you mean 'Err... is Mum OK with you going here?'. 'Warn= ing' covers both. <... had "HoMe-based" as a warning. But that sounded sil= ly ... entirely too evocative of baseball for my liking.> Brilliant! /Gig= gles... 'AU' as a genre gets my vote. Although 'Heresy' (as proposed by P= andemonium) is a much more evocative word :P Newbie wading in regardless..= . Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1451 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50651 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 21:28:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 21:28:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mu-out-0910.google.com) (209.85.134.185) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 21:28:42 -0000 X-Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i2so1496071mue.2 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:28:38 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.78.188.10 with SMTP id l10mr8948814huf.9.1205011718299; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:28:38 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x26sm7210514ugc.61.2008.03.08.13.28.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:28:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47D3055A.9080002@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 22:30:02 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <47D2EAD8.7060406@gmail.com> <506542529.20080308221153@tlen.pl> In-Reply-To: <506542529.20080308221153@tlen.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=PLZ1FYcdTfE1E6uKLVqp4aEUnuAs42iK0ZxG4Mlzj0D0nAiEj3wyizc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Sirielle wrote: > Ai Rhapsody, > > > R> Then I'd also think > R> we have to have a warning for UT, the letters, the magazine of which I > R> can't recall the name... > > "Parma Eldalamberon". You see in one of recent issues Tolkien states > in a late note that no Elda had black hair, that kinda spoils raven haired Feany, so > a warning is a MUST. Other way I might faint stumbling upon his > majestiness with brown hair! Yet, various lines in the Silmarillion state over and over again that F�anor & his father had black hair, three of his sons red ect ect... thusly people will continue debate & bicker. Not every Silm writer can afford a subscription to that magazine, let alone buy numbers, so what they do can get their hands on, that should be enough to at least become familair with it, imho. In that respect, is the Tolkien canon closed if essays appear like that? I know there is a huge archive at the estate with much more information that might even nowadays shake stated canon facts on its foundations. I find it a tad unfair when a writer gets slammed for something they don't have access to, like issues of that magazines (of which the articles are submitted to an editor, mind you). Just let the other be and leave people to their own interpretations, it works brilliantly for me. But then we Dutch are often critized for our tolerant culture, so that open mindedness minus politic correctness is a near default for us. ;) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1452 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 118 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 21:32:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 21:32:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 21:32:57 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED4D0748075 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:32:50 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:32:49 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:32:51 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <108887472.20080308223251@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <47D2D015.8060000@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Nrdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=PCNcAlBG1UoqM4dT1XZ31mNkoTEQrKv1AR97f9AKMx1sn8FT3g0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> What is Nerdanel's hair color? DF> (...) DF> Do we actually know the answers to any of these? To the first one at least - red, exhibit inside of Vinyar Tengwar among Tolkien's thought of word red in Quenya, together with a note that Maedhros was alike Mahtan ;) Which is so alike to my own way of seeing family resemblance on their family tree. Unfortunately I don't have VT to check it personally and prove, I just trust folks at other board didn't fool others providing that information. That's why I asked you about it regarding Nerdanel's description on 7in7. DF> And you know what? Sometimes these "facts" of which I am so certain are DF> nowhere to be found in the books! Ha! I recently brought up as canon a sentence form a fan fic during discussion at on board... How lovely. Fortunately I said that probably it is like that but I can't find the quotation and my interlocutor saw the same sentence in a fan fic and reminded it to me, a moment of laugh ;) DF> That is actually how I discovered most of the fanons listed earlier. Not Nerdanel ;P Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1453 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38954 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 21:47:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 21:47:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 21:47:35 -0000 X-Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c71.28a675f4 (30737) for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 16:47:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 16:47:32 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205012852" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5018 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nrdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=EW3akhWYwwL2tccZsr1b6G3Y-vjkYpPSfiMEa6Cbv6-hSVpwkQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth -------------------------------1205012852 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> What is Nerdanel's hair color? >> Do we actually know the answers to any of these? > To the first one at least - red, exhibit inside of Vinyar Tengwar > among Tolkien's thought of word red in Quenya, together with a note > that Maedhros was alike Mahtan ;) Just out of curiosity, which issue of Vinyar Tengwar are you referring to? Dawn recently wrote an excellent essay (here: _http://www.silm arillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/nerdanel.php_ (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/nerdanel.php) ) which also made mention of the Haircolor Question, and all research (including a quote from VT 41) points to the fact that Nerdanel being a redhead is in fact fanon rather than canon. However, I'll be glad to let anyone convince me differently. ;) - Elleth -------------------------------1205012852 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
>> What is = Nerdanel's hair color?
>> Do we actually know the answers to any = of these?

> To the first one at least - red, exhibit inside of V= inyar Tengwar
> among Tolkien's thought of word red in Quenya, toget= her with a note
> that Maedhros was alike Mahtan ;)
 =
Just out of curiosity, which issue of Vinyar Tengwar are you re= ferring to? Dawn recently wrote an excellent essay (here: http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/nerdanel.php) = which also made mention of the Haircolor Question, and all research (inclu= ding a quote from VT 41) points to the fact that Nerdanel being a redhead = is in fact fanon rather than canon.
 
However,= I'll be glad to let anyone convince me differently. ;)
&n= bsp;
- Elleth 
 -------------------------------1205012852-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1454 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36337 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 21:52:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 21:52:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 21:52:34 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 786CF748069 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:52:33 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:52:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:52:33 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <208382618.20080308225233@tlen.pl> To: Rhapsody In-Reply-To: <47D3055A.9080002@gmail.com> References: <47D2EAD8.7060406@gmail.com> <506542529.20080308221153@tlen.pl> <47D3055A.9080002@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] obscure footnotes and general books knowledge X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=9KeeEoOb0ZAlFphhHdGXhVULZ-4SkCwfeGR9KWAO9G1AMjIf7a0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, I was joking ;) But if we are discussing it seriously this is late note that belongs to latest unfinished Arda Rounded canon and if someone is familiar to that legendary evolution phase then maybe they are familiar with obscure notes. Searching Internet does more sometimes than having magazines subscriptions. I've red it on a message board where linguists leave such curiosities to those who have no interest in subscribing Sindarin related magazine. In my 'verse' Noldor are black haired and no note will change it. R> Yet, various lines in the Silmarillion state over and over again that R> F�anor & his father had black hair, As we've discussed before and I don't want to dig into it before I'll read the canon discussion - legendary evolved in phases and different things were canon in them. Different books are canon to different people. That's why there is no one general canon coming to Silmarillion fandom. While there is canon in the Lord of the Rings fandom for LotR is finished piece published by the author himself, corrected by him after publication, too. To me always the latest information is valid, but I will ignore it anyway for my own purposes if I need. And here is the difference between what is canon and what I will use in my own art/fiction. I may know red haired Maedhros is canon but paint him pink haired anyway, with AU label ;) Again as I added to my side note post - canon note or question from me doesn't mean I want every author on that list to obey it. It's just what is it - note, question, not a trial to change your vision into one I find most proper. Aye, but yes to those who know only Silmarillion and do not google weird facts about characters Maedhros is probably black haired or what ever they want, because his hair color is not given in the book and this is be Silmarillion based canon on Maitimo. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1455 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73651 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 21:55:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 21:55:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 21:55:55 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465543E8079 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:55:54 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:55:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:55:54 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <705669905.20080308225554@tlen.pl> To: "LadyElleth@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nrdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=9XmM-T_AgY5Q2AIU7WntuYGFAiV35h5-KkPI210YsqJ9ZPTua14 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai LadyElleth, Lac> Just out of curiosity, which issue of Vinyar Tengwar are Lac> you referring to? Dawn recently wrote an excellent essay (here: Lac> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/nerdanel.php) Lac> which also made mention of the Haircolor Question, and all Lac> research (including a quote from VT 41) points to the fact that Lac> Nerdanel being a redhead is in fact fanon rather than canon. I don't know which issue, all I know it's in the red color related essay. As I said it was given at web forums by someone and not in quotation. So it would be good to verify it. I misspelled her name in the subject. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1456 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55686 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 21:57:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 21:57:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n30b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.253) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 21:57:39 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 21:57:39 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 21:57:39 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 21:57:38 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:57:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47D3055A.9080002@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=0C_dqlt91ovtHBbIBcEEmhWW2kFFdyxqDNmEaFrause4BhLJqn7nGIPW X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Rhapsody = wrote: > > > Yet, various lines in the Silmarillion state over and over a= gain that > F=EBanor & his father had black hair, three of his sons red ec= t ect... > thusly people will continue debate & bicker. Heh. Well, for = the sake of accuracy, JRRT writes and I quote: "The predominant color of N= oldorin hair was very dark brown (no Elf had absolute black hair)." There'= s a LOT of room for interpretation there. For example, I would readily say= that my brother's hair, as well as that of my late father and my late pate= rnal grandmother (all 'Mericans of British ancestry), is black although tec= hnically, it is very dark brown - even "raven." Juno put it very well when= she said that "canon" is not equivalent to the laws of physics, especially= when it pertains to an author who was perpetually changing his secondary w= orld and in a fascinating way at that. I know there is a huge archive a= t the estate > with much more information that might even nowadays shake s= tated canon > facts on its foundations. > And some day, it will be relea= sed and my theory that the Valar actually are Lovecraft's Great Old Ones wi= ll be confirmed. (kidding, kidding). From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1457 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82475 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 22:02:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 22:02:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.132) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 22:02:09 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 22:02:09 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 22:02:09 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 22:02:09 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 22:02:08 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Re: an SSP of a sort - on the whole AU thread X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=Mx2lp5KnO_TucJPx84MALMbUq9YhQz149PBXWZWKx-XdugUlYw X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > When I think that a canon fact > is wrong, then I look i= t up. I offer a quote or a citation, not my own > damning, "This is WRONG!"= And you know what? Sometimes these "facts" >of > which I am so certain are= nowhere to be found in the books! That is >actually > how I discovered mos= t of the fanons listed earlier. If I can't find >it, then > I keep my mouth= shut, no matter how certain I am that "I know I saw >that > before!" I wo= uld like to second your praise of Marta's essay and the passage you quoted = is definitely one of the best. It's a delight to read something to concise = and well-reasoned on canonicity. :-) About what you said: WORD! The discu= ssions about AU as a perjorative have made me think about the commenting cu= lture in fandom. And I refuse to call it "reviewing culture" because 95% o= f the so-called reviews are comments at best. I'm inclined to think that t= he opportunity to leave a comment is an invitation to a conversation with t= he author, in fact, a bit of a privilege. For me that means that the least= an author should be able to expect is that commenters use complete sentenc= es and proper grammar and correct spelling at least in so far as it makes t= heir comments comprehensible. And if that comment is supposed to contain c= riticism, then I it should contain the word "because" and - as you said - i= f possible an example, or the source that supports that criticism. This se= ems to be too much to ask for. "That is not canon" is apparently perfect cr= iticism of an AU story. At the same time, I keep hearing that readers are = afraid to comment because they have nothing to criticise. Pardon my French= , but WTF? When did the sentence "I really liked this chapter." become fan= dom-politically incorrect? Apart from flames and stupid comments along th= e lines of "That is not canon" I get giddy about every comment I receive an= d if offline life allows it, I reply to every single one of them. The dynam= ic conversation between readers and writers is such a wonderful thing. IF t= here's respect on both sides of the screen. Sadly, that is lacking all too= often - on both sides. ~ Juno *** "Be who you are and say what you feel= , because those who matter don't mind, and those that mind, don't matter." = - Dr. Seuss (Theodor Seuss Geisel) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1458 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14775 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 22:23:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 22:23:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.140) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 22:23:51 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.90] by n13.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 22:23:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 22:23:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 22:23:51 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 22:23:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=JCWUka3OQgS1FHS69_LXqm-hRje1--7GJtxau8wXCy7UVgo9jw X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > Juno put it very well when she said that "canon" is = not equivalent to > the laws of physics, especially when it pertains to an = author who was > perpetually changing his secondary world and in a fascinat= ing way at that. > > *snork* Another thing I find quite amusing is how= certain "canatics" are so happy when Dawn agrees with them about how the c= riticism of the wrong hair colour or similar other canon "facts" (e.g. birt= h/death/age of characters) is valid criticism. And at the same time they d= on't realise how utterly pointless that is for the quality of the story. I= t's great fun - I really enjoy such nerdy details! - to nitpick on hair col= our or diet or clothing or who spoke Sindarin or Quenya with whom at which = time ... endless possibilities of arguing canon-factoids exist. Only, for = the overall *quality* of a story such canon-factoids are rather irrelevant.= *pwned*, huh? Cheers, Juno *** "The important thing is this: To be abl= e at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become." - Charl= es Dubois From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1459 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91285 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 22:38:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 22:38:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 22:38:33 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 22:38:33 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 22:38:33 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 22:38:33 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 22:38:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=rgjGnSBoWSLA9ITz7kwnv40atjttgzr5SmLz56BpqJ08cno X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 > It's great fun - I really enjoy such nerdy details! - to nitpick on > h= air colour or diet or clothing or who spoke Sindarin or Quenya with > whom = at which time ... endless possibilities of arguing canon- factoids exist. = Oh - me too!!! > "The important thing is this: To be able at any moment t= o sacrifice > what we are for what we could become." > - Charles Dubois kk= - pwned... :P (Superb quotation!) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1460 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75313 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 22:59:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 22:59:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.113) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 22:59:50 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 59255 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2008 22:59:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: CBfC4dIVM1n62mXUdkGx9IgluPD_DUuAfAYXW5xB22OPWHZCtwFtNBUdeXA0bz_7YOkXGhv.Fxoid8e59YKglfBt5FNx4f628ibHoF5LbNsqQKwYwHHq6CD8Bsk1iA-- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 14:59:48 PST Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:59:48 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <705669905.20080308225554@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2070117406-1205017188=:59192" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <803930.59192.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nrdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=Z3Z_oaHrX5dkwJq2f87Q6pbP6wYPdGK-zI6wo4e7Rml0HwoxmM2y3lU X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-2070117406-1205017188=:59192 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quote from Dawn's essay (which contains a quote from VT): "According to the Vinyar Tengwar, in a series of notes about the etymology of various Elvish words for red and brown as they relate to hair colors, it is said that Nerdanel "herself had brown hair and a ruddy complexion" (11)." This to me says that VT does NOT say that Nerdanel has red hair. But let's pretend for a moment that every essay/book/note ever written by JRRT says that Nerdanel, to continue the example, has red hair, and the he does in fact use near-synonyms like "red-brown", "copper colored", etc. So? That covers a huge range of colors. Go to Google Images and search for "red hair". You get pictures of people with red hair of varying shades. Now search "red brown hair". Even more shades! There's no way to know which Tolkien had in mind for any character with reddish hair, and we haven't even begun to tap into "copper", "coppery red", "auburn", etc. (This area is even murkier for what constitutes "brown" hair!) So basically what I'm getting at is that we don't always know the exact answer. Even when Tolkien gives us the "answer", we don't know the answer. ;D Tarion Sirielle wrote: Ai LadyElleth, Lac> Just out of curiosity, which issue of Vinyar Tengwar are Lac> you referring to? Dawn recently wrote an excellent essay (here: Lac> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/nerdanel.php) Lac> which also made mention of the Haircolor Question, and all Lac> research (including a quote from VT 41) points to the fact that Lac> Nerdanel being a redhead is in fact fanon rather than canon. I don't know which issue, all I know it's in the red color related essay. As I said it was given at web forums by someone and not in quotation. So it would be good to verify it. I misspelled her name in the subject. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-2070117406-1205017188=:59192 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quote from Dawn's essay (which contains a quote from VT):
"According to the Vinyar Tengwar, in a series of notes about the etymology of various Elvish words for red and brown as they relate to hair colors, it is said that Nerdanel "herself had brown hair and a ruddy complexion" (11)."

This to me says that VT does NOT say that Nerdanel has red hair.

But let's pretend for a moment that every essay/book/note ever written by JRRT says that Nerdanel, to continue the example, has red hair, and the he does in fact use near-synonyms like "red-brown", "copper colored", etc.

So? That covers a huge range of colors. Go to Google Images and search for "red hair". You get pictures of people with red hair of varying shades. Now search "red brown hair". Even more shades! There's no way to know which Tolkien had in mind for any character with reddish hair, and we haven't even begun to tap into "copper", "coppery red", "auburn", etc.

(This area is even murkier for what constitutes "brown" hair!)

So basically what I'm getting at is that we don't always know the exact answer. Even when Tolkien gives us the "answer", we don't know the answer. ;D

Tarion

Sirielle wrote:
Ai LadyElleth,

Lac> Just out of curiosity, which issue of Vinyar Tengwar are
Lac> you referring to? Dawn recently wrote an excellent essay (here:
Lac> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/nerdanel.php)
Lac> which also made mention of the Haircolor Question, and all
Lac> research (including a quote from VT 41) points to the fact that
Lac> Nerdanel being a redhead is in fact fanon rather than canon.

I don't know which issue, all I know it's in the red color related
essay. As I said it was given at web forums by someone and not in
quotation. So it would be good to verify it.

I misspelled her name in the subject.

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/



~T�rion

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Search. --0-2070117406-1205017188=:59192-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1461 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89842 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 23:02:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 23:02:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 23:02:03 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81AB53E806C for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:02:02 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:02:01 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:02:02 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1869334457.20080309000202@tlen.pl> To: JunoMagic In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=dROAUbJT20xc_VRBNDV_rW5TeGAnzIg3VNnruR50cqhHFEaszWo X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai JunoMagic, J> *snork* J> Another thing I find quite amusing is how certain "canatics" If that's to me then I am here and you can address me directly without being sarcastic. J> And at the same time they don't realise how utterly pointless that is J> for the quality of the story. It depends on what the story is about and what Jon Doe values in fiction in general. Their fav characters appearance , the impression it makes on them or the plot they're are in? Was it a poem about F�anor's blond locks swirling on wind in sunlight, reflecting the blood over floor of Telerin ships? Yes the poem was lovely, pure feast, beautiful yet terrifying vision, only that blond locks bothers me a bit. But on the other hand I understand that black hair would not reflect the same way, so there was a purpose on changing it. Also given you have got Sun here it must be Arda Rounded phase of the legendary and maybe that obscure note about brown hair works. So you probably disqualified the raven hair as belonging to the older phase and felt free to give F�anor whatever hair color you like, not brown. BTW, I agree with Pandemonium on various interpretations possibilities of that late note, including having dark brown "raven hair". In the end - coming from fiction to art - my and your screens are set differently and you'll see something different than I intended anyway. Oh yes, you write, I draw, so hair colors are important to me more than to you. If I switch them people will definitely comment on the color, not the image. Same goes for fan fiction, but with art it is certain. And if I sate anything in description telling why it doesn't matter for they don't read descriptions. J> It's great fun - I really enjoy such nerdy details! - to nitpick on J> hair colour or diet or clothing or who spoke Sindarin or Quenya with J> whom at which time ... The last one is important and provides a huge field for interesting plot bunnies and world creation. All depends on the story. Could be a strong part of background for events, a nice game between a reader and characters. If he knows that it means something when a lonely Noldo on talks in Quenya to a group of Sindar after Thingol's ban. Treating it as meaningless is quite poor idea in this case. Personal opinion. J> Only, for the overall *quality* of a story such canon-factoids are J> rather irrelevant. If nothing else it is a signal to you that your story/image wasn't convincing enough to make that reader forget character's hair color and enjoy it. Was it boring? Did you stressed that hair too much? Have you lost your plot and wrong hair color is the only thing they remembered? All feedback tells something about your creation. Just like lack of feedback could have a few meanings (and should not be discouraging). Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1462 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99414 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 23:13:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 23:13:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 23:13:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 23:13:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 23:13:41 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 23:13:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1869334457.20080309000202@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=O3J_RCShOUKBMkZsLP99x6v_82nWmDQgaQ8WuLzYeG-slvxWEg X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai JunoMagic, > > J> *snork* > > J> Another thing I find quit= e amusing is how certain "canatics" > > If that's to me then I am here and= you can address me directly without being > sarcastic. > Actually, no, t= hat comment has nothing to do with anything you said at all, at least from = my side. > > Oh yes, you write, I draw, so hair colors are important to= me more > than to you. If I switch them people will definitely comment on = the color, not > the image. Same goes for fan fiction, but with art it is c= ertain. And > if I sate anything in description telling why it doesn't matt= er for > they don't read descriptions. > > I'm a great fan of descriptio= ns and details, and I'm not only a writer, I'm a visual artist myself - I p= aint watercolours, I draw, I work with Photoshop creating manips and icons,= I try my hand as a photographer. I'm very much aware of the impact of the = details of visuals. However, I think it's completely ridiculous to say tha= t the overall quality of a story hinges on getting a factoid right or makin= g one or the other easily rectified canon mistake. Plot, characterisation,= dialogue, setting and atmosphere are more important than making a mistake = in describing Feanor's or anyone else's hair colour. Cheers, Juno *** "L= ife isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical= , science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornograp= hy if you're lucky." - Alan Moore From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1463 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16692 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 23:20:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 23:20:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 23:20:15 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 97124 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2008 23:20:15 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 41p0ZdUVM1llChZMKGIP6CqTShMb2KUi6kAINyeUn8AgWKakv2tmGZbqwYJfed7V5g-- X-Received: from [98.16.33.231] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:20:15 PST Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:20:15 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2103705628-1205018415=:93935" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <408206.93935.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=avwGPPEfr6Ssak_CcHrhKNy48E0Buo_b0UgAQN4e9wz3i5t6Vg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-2103705628-1205018415=:93935 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The issue of black vs. very dark brown makes me laugh because I work at a company that makes airline seats and we have over a hundred shades of black and off-black not to be confused with the various shades of gray, dark brown, etc. lol I bet none of our customers would say that their seats were off-black rather than black. So maybe color is in the eye of the beholder. pandemonium_213 wrote: --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Rhapsody wrote: > > > Yet, various lines in the Silmarillion state over and over again that > F�anor & his father had black hair, three of his sons red ect ect... > thusly people will continue debate & bicker. Heh. Well, for the sake of accuracy, JRRT writes and I quote: "The predominant color of Noldorin hair was very dark brown (no Elf had absolute black hair)." There's a LOT of room for interpretation there. For example, I would readily say that my brother's hair, as well as that of my late father and my late paternal grandmother (all 'Mericans of British ancestry), is black although technically, it is very dark brown - even "raven." Juno put it very well when she said that "canon" is not equivalent to the laws of physics, especially when it pertains to an author who was perpetually changing his secondary world and in a fascinating way at that. I know there is a huge archive at the estate > with much more information that might even nowadays shake stated canon > facts on its foundations. > And some day, it will be released and my theory that the Valar actually are Lovecraft's Great Old Ones will be confirmed. (kidding, kidding). ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-2103705628-1205018415=:93935 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The issue of black vs. very dark brown makes me laugh because I work at a company that makes airline seats and we have over a hundred shades of black and off-black not to be confused with the various shades of gray, dark brown, etc. lol I bet none of our customers would say that their seats were off-black rather than black. So maybe color is in the eye of the beholder.

pandemonium_213 wrote:
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Rhapsody
...> wrote:
>

>
> Yet, various lines in the Silmarillion state over and over again that
> F�anor & his father had black hair, three of his sons red ect ect...
> thusly people will continue debate & bicker.

Heh. Well, for the sake of accuracy, JRRT writes and I quote:

"The predominant color of Noldorin hair was very dark brown (no Elf
had absolute black hair)."

There's a LOT of room for interpretation there. For example, I would
readily say that my brother's hair, as well as that of my late father
and my late paternal grandmother (all 'Mericans of British ancestry),
is black although technically, it is very dark brown - even "raven."

Juno put it very well when she said that "canon" is not equivalent to
the laws of physics, especially when it pertains to an author who was
perpetually changing his secondary world and in a fascinating way at that.

I know there is a huge archive at the estate
> with much more information that might even nowadays shake stated canon
> facts on its foundations.
>

And some day, it will be released and my theory that the Valar
actually are Lovecraft's Great Old Ones will be confirmed. (kidding,
kidding).




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

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Search. --0-2103705628-1205018415=:93935-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1464 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18207 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 23:22:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 23:22:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 23:22:10 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6DF3E8053 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:22:09 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:22:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:22:10 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <5810108990.20080309002210@tlen.pl> To: JunoMagic In-Reply-To: References: <1869334457.20080309000202@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=YH9yYAf-Un7U5GCNlDxM6PBgleyjbuG1baCyS9XPfRVVj6zXW38 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai JunoMagic, J> I'm a great fan of descriptions and details, and I'm not only a J> writer, I'm a visual artist myself - I paint watercolours, I draw, I J> work with Photoshop creating manips and icons, I try my hand as a J> photographer. I'm very much aware of the impact of the details of visuals. I know, though I haven't seen all of your creations. J> Plot, characterisation, dialogue, setting and atmosphere are more J> important than making a mistake in describing Feanor's or anyone J> else's hair colour. As I said it depends on a story. Feedback stressing only an unimportant detail could be a judgement on the plot and characterization, depending on what else is hidden behind the words. If it's cleat that reviewer didn't bother to read and just nitpicks a detail then ignore it, but in if they have red the whole story and pick only on that then something is wrong - with them or with the story, it is information. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1465 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22045 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 23:24:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 23:24:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 23:24:36 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC583E8050 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:24:35 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:24:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 00:24:36 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <14010439144.20080309002436@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <408206.93935.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <408206.93935.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=HQOhpBaMq1LKKtesU1Lqgq4PpSuAwbJg0QwQqagoywhaLrf5EWc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, A> I bet none of our customers would say that their seats were off-black rather than A> black. So maybe color is in the eye of the beholder. And probably men are worse on naming them ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1466 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53997 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2008 23:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2008 23:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n48a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2008 23:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n48.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 23:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 23:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2008 23:34:26 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 23:34:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5810108990.20080309002210@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=UxKcal2dLyZzu0JRoQvwu8ZZlQACodI_tmwn0IDfVoowxh6XFw X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > As I said it depends on a story. Feedback stressing > only an uni= mportant detail could be a judgement on the plot and > characterization, de= pending on what else is hidden behind the > words. If it's cleat that revie= wer didn't bother to read and just > nitpicks a detail then ignore it, but = in if they have red the whole > story and pick only on that then something = is wrong - with them or > with the story, it is information. If a comment= er wants to pass judgement on the plot and the characterization, then they = ought to DAMN well better SAY so. Yes, of course it's more difficult to wr= ite a well-reasoned critique of the plot or characterisation. But writing a= story isn't easy either. So my pity is rather limited for the plight of ce= rtain commenters who seem to be unable to use the smalle word "because". A= uthors are NOT mind-readers! Nitpicking is wonderful! Anyone who's ever as= ked me to beta one of their stories knows just how much I love nitpicking. = But it's also necessary to keep a sense of perspective. If someone catches= an honest mistake and points it out to me - quoting the source - I'll say = "Thank you" and correct it. And I think that's the only appropriate reactio= n. But apart from that ... if *all* a reader has to say is "but xyz's hair= colour is wrong" or "XYZ would never wear blue clothes" or "Legolas would = never eat strawberries" or "Maglor never ever knew how to play the flute" .= .. I just can't take such comments seriously. Sorry. Cheers, Juno *** = "You have to think like a hero merely to behave like a decent human being."= - John Le Carr=E9 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1467 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16689 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 00:16:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 00:16:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 00:16:45 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4522358002 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 01:16:38 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 01:16:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 01:16:39 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <63195201.20080309011639@tlen.pl> To: pandemonium_213 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=Ym0tYp9bK6ogr0AbNVnQGiekjRhfhztRDJ6oSmEUZvVLwqfq3Dw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai pandemonium_213, p> OK, now I'll admit the whole blond F�anor/ blond Aragorn thing was p> thought-provoking. And here I am wondering how Darwinian evolution p> can be accommodated in Arda instead of Tolkien's Lamarckism. Silly me! p> :^D Any ideas on that to share? Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1468 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32095 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 01:56:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 01:56:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 01:56:44 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F2C3E8067 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 02:56:43 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 02:56:43 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 02:55:13 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1206128320.20080309025513@tlen.pl> To: Tarion Anarore In-Reply-To: <803930.59192.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <705669905.20080308225554@tlen.pl> <803930.59192.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel vs very dark brown hair etc X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=EwiGMt1n8pnyUkeEx9QU4K7PZT5WPoeKklfinK0qvfiMbRw8ElQ X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Tarion ans All, TA> This to me says that VT does NOT say that Nerdanel has red hair. Yup, so if it was this one then the poster on a different board wasn't right. I need to dig it back, it was in one of Tolkien groups on Facebook. TA> So basically what I'm getting at is that we don't always know TA> the exact answer. Even when Tolkien gives us the "answer", we TA> don't know the answer. ;D He is using different colors to state hair color of the same character, totally different sometimes - Caranthir is black haired for F�anor and brown haired for Nerdanel. And yes Nelyo being auburn and copper haired... .... OK, I've found it - it's here for those who have got Facebook accounts ("I Actually Read The Silmarillion - and I Liked It!" group): http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2207497706&topic=2820 but anyway nothing new because the word is "brown" not "red". Quoting a Facebook user: ///Maybe these info are from the Vinyar Tengwar (that's where the bit about Nerdanel having brown hair came from). (...) EDIT: Yup--the bit about Mahtan having a beard is from VT (I suspect the bit about Mahtan and Maedhros being similar is from VT as well): As published in the linguistic journal Vinyar Tengwar, JRRT wrote: "Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of life. Nerdanel's father was exceptional, being only early in his second." Marielle, it's from Vinyar Tengwar #41./// So the same VT issue you have checked for the Nerdanel essay. I interpreted "brown" as "red haired" because that's what Mahtan's hair are, too and this means they were both not "black" haired as the rest of Noldor (as I thought of Noldor back then and still do). Still brown leaves a whole field for red hair conspiration. The note about "very dark brown" not "black" haired Quendi appeared in X 2007 and as I've checked on Polish JRRT board is dated late 50s - early 60s, has been noted down while making index or glossary to LotR (never finished). Reposting from Pandemonium's message, as the one at the board is in Polish: "The predominant color of Noldorin hair was very dark brown (no Elf had absolute black hair)." So most of Noldor were very dark brown haired (which we may see as almost black) but Nerdanel gets brown, which we can interpret as auburn, googling for brown haired people with ruddy complexion might give a clue if someone find that method valid. p> There's a LOT of room for interpretation there. For example, I would p> readily say that my brother's hair, as well as that of my late father p> and my late paternal grandmother (all 'Mericans of British ancestry), p> is black although technically, it is very dark brown - even "raven." Very dark brown hair would be "black" where I am, for people rarely have got natural raven black hair here, but it will look brown compared with real black hair of people from Asia for example. Blue hued black hair were my idea for F�anor, damn, I think I'll keep it. Have you got VT #41 still? What way the line about Maedhros and Mahtan being similar sounds? Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1469 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43394 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 05:11:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 05:11:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.231) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 05:11:09 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s11so1153859wxc.17 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:11:09 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.150.216.8 with SMTP id o8mr1667802ybg.68.1205039469286; Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:11:09 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a13sm12178562rnc.6.2008.03.08.21.11.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:11:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47D37177.9040800@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 00:11:19 -0500 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <47D2D015.8060000@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] an SSP of a sort - on the whole AU thread X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=0LQ1GzL-K4wFByxuDGEz0_dkThq4n3RERasDVhNiUhg2J3RVD4xACw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, > Thank you, Marta, for the link! It's an excellent essay, highly > recommended to everyone. :) > Glad you liked it. :-) > My particular favorite part is this: > > "--It's not uncanonical because it contradicts your personal > interpretation of a character. [snip] > --It's not uncanonical if it breaks a fanon. [snip] > Canon is what Tolkien wrote. Not what you personally think, not what you > /think/ he wrote -- what actually came out of his typewriter." > > Such an excellent point that I think gets lost so often in these canon > debates! So little is actually canon. For one, there are dozens of > fanons flying around, many of which people /do/ believe are canon. (What > is Nerdanel's hair color? Was Maglor's hand scarred by the Silmaril? Who > was the gentlest of the sons of Feanor? ... Do we actually /know/ the > answers to any of these? Well, I know *I* don't - because on First Age stuff I know very little outside the Silm, and maybe some of the UT stuff. I think this is where mental flexibility comes in. It's a hard skill - just look at politics, how people get so committed to a position that they can't appreciate the other guy might also have a point that needs to be understood. The same thing goes with fanons. Like I take the fact that Maglor is a musician and he saved Elrond and Elros, and tend to forget all the other stuff he did - my conception of him is built mostly around those two facts. And even those two things are open to interpretation. I am a musician myself and so tend to think of Maglor as a bit of a kindred soul, and sensitive and compassionate and artsy - but musicians can also be megalomaniacs, almost to the point of sociopathy. I know when I write I am deaf to whatever's going on around me. That can be not such a pleasant thing, really. Not saying Maglor was like that, but the fact that he was a musician could be interpreted that way. That's my point - we need to be able to see how the same fact could be interpreted more than one way. > And even > canon "facts" deserve scrutiny because its also canon that Tolkien's > stories are meant to be read as histories and weren't written from an > omniscient, unbiased PoV. > *nods* Exactly. That's why I tried to draw a distinction between stories that completely disregarded canon (for good or bad), and those that tried to take an original interpretation and make a case for it. Like someone who thinks that LACE doesn't apply to the Sindar, or that it's a misreading to say sex always means marriage. I won't say these ideas are uncanonical, though a writer might have to convince me of that interpretation through the story. There are very few facts that are themselves uncanonical. There are *some* things (like Finwe living to go with Feanor back to Middle-earth) that are clearly against canon, but most of the time whether a story is uncanonical or not depends on what the author tries to do - do they ignore (or are ignorant of) a canonical inconsistency, or do they try to address it as best they can? > I made a little rule for myself a few years ago after being embarrassed > one too many times by spreading misinformation. When I think that a > canon fact is wrong, then I look it up. I offer a quote or a citation, > not my own damning, "This is WRONG!" And you know what? Sometimes these > "facts" of which I am so certain are nowhere to be found in the books! > That is actually how I discovered most of the fanons listed earlier. If > I can't find it, then I keep my mouth shut, no matter how certain I am > that "I know I saw that before!" > Occasionally I will ask an author why they think a factoid is canonical. I think this is okay, *if* you do it right - not demand justification but present it as "I always thought otherwise - can you give me your source so I can correct myself?" But yeah, I think in either case the important thing is to look for actual textual support and not run off on what you *think* is the case. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1470 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1011 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 11:21:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 11:21:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mu-out-0910.google.com) (209.85.134.190) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 11:21:44 -0000 X-Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id w8so1592683mue.4 for ; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 04:21:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.78.81.20 with SMTP id e20mr9953013hub.19.1205061703019; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 04:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 25sm7791262ugn.23.2008.03.09.04.21.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 09 Mar 2008 04:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D3C84F.3000708@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 12:21:51 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <63195201.20080309011639@tlen.pl> In-Reply-To: <63195201.20080309011639@tlen.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=oYtahvLq51Efd8Dunv0_w08wKw_tmAGMiKQFsrvavR6Y8r-UjBm9kPI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Sirielle wrote: > Ai pandemonium_213, > > p> OK, now I'll admit the whole blond F�anor/ blond Aragorn thing was > p> thought-provoking. And here I am wondering how Darwinian evolution > p> can be accommodated in Arda instead of Tolkien's Lamarckism. Silly me! > p> :^D > > Any ideas on that to share? Plenty. The past days I have been telling no to a DragonballZ/DragonballGT crossover plotpanda where F�anor and his brood can turn into a super-Saiyan phase where his dark locks turn golden and... come to think of it, it could actually work, being them quite the warriors and those tempers. What? What!? Rhapsody (herder of many insane plot panda's) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1471 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50597 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 13:55:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 13:55:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 13:55:02 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EFE4748068 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:55:00 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:54:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:54:58 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1836278668.20080309145458@tlen.pl> To: Rhapsody In-Reply-To: <47D3C84F.3000708@gmail.com> References: <63195201.20080309011639@tlen.pl> <47D3C84F.3000708@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=-KsZKpyZCwAZVVX2IWczCbn1o6pY-I8zM07YcIGthpKxTEWy0HA X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, R> Sirielle wrote: >> Ai pandemonium_213, >> >> p> OK, now I'll admit the whole blond F�anor/ blond Aragorn thing was >> p> thought-provoking. And here I am wondering how Darwinian evolution >> p> can be accommodated in Arda instead of Tolkien's Lamarckism. Silly me! >> p> :^D >> >> Any ideas on that to share? R> Plenty. The past days I have been telling no to a R> DragonballZ/DragonballGT crossover plotpanda where F�anor and his brood R> can turn into a super-Saiyan phase where his dark locks turn golden R> and... come to think of it, it could actually work, being them quite the R> warriors and those tempers. You need to tell it in pictures ;) R> What? What!? It would still be nice to hear Darwin arguing with Lamarck over origins of Quendi. I always used to put JRRT among creationism followers, but I see there is a point about Lamarck. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1472 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64759 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 14:19:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 14:19:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 14:19:34 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c86.28803cda (30738) for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 10:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 10:19:15 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205072355" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 36 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defi... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=t55G_FZSXF2v5NvcGueZqzMAmykKihX6Lsw34OKt2NCOHwVuafJm X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205072355 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/8/2008 2:11:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: I think the same purpose can be served in the summary and the author's notes. I did a lot of thinking on the fly in those days; I had to. It was a lot of work for one person to do in very short time. So if anything seems odd about the archive (this is directed to everyone!), do bring it up. Most things are easily changed and are probably more the result of not enough sleep and attendant warped thinking. ;) I am out-of-town and dying that I cannot participate in this discussion since I surely am opinionated. The best defense against any and all of the critics of one genre or another is, of course, to write it really well. That is my goal going forward. In the beginning I wrote extensive summaries and long, tedious author's notes justifying what I was doing, but find I have less and less patience with that. Someone who will truly enjoy my work also is unlikely to be swayed one way or the other by the lack of footnotes. (There is generally a shared subtext and curiosity among one's intended audience in any case). One of my friends writes what most people would consider AU with unusual interpretations of beloved canon characters' histories and personalities and freely indulgences his own interest in Elvish languages without apology, footnote, or summary. I would love to have to skill and/or self-confidence to be able to get away with that. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205072355 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
&nb= sp;
In a message dated 3/8/2008 2:11:15 P.M. Central Standard Ti= me, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes:
I t= hink the same purpose can be served in the summary and the author's notes. = I did a lot of thinking on the fly in those days; I had to. It was a lot= of work for one person to do in very short time. So if anything seems o= dd about the archive (this is directed to everyone!), do bring it up. Mo= st things are easily changed and are probably more the result of not eno= ugh sleep and attendant warped thinking. ;)
I a= m out-of-town and dying that I cannot participate in this discussion since= I surely am opinionated. The best defense against any and all of the crit= ics of one genre or another is, of course, to write it really well. That is= my goal going forward. In the beginning I wrote extensive summaries and l= ong, tedious author's notes justifying what I was doing, but find I h= ave less and less patience with that. Someone who will truly enjoy my work= also is unlikely to be swayed one way or the other by the lack of footnot= es. (There is generally a shared subtext and curiosity among one's intende= d audience in any case). One of my friends writes what most people would c= onsider AU with unusual interpretations of beloved canon characters' histo= ries and personalities and freely indulgences his own interest in&nbs= p;Elvish languages without apology, footnote, or summary. I would love to = have to skill and/or self-confidence to be able to get away with that= .



-------------------------------1205072355-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1473 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33760 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 15:29:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 15:29:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.186) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 15:29:10 -0000 X-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k4so743732nfd.4 for ; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:29:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.78.172.20 with SMTP id u20mr10720750hue.12.1205076549044; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t10sm9199537muh.13.2008.03.09.08.29.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D4024C.2020002@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:29:16 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <63195201.20080309011639@tlen.pl> <47D3C84F.3000708@gmail.com> <1836278668.20080309145458@tlen.pl> In-Reply-To: <1836278668.20080309145458@tlen.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: Defining AU (was "Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Houseless elves (rep... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=NFeiU6AmmPxqaQRSrdmYcRa4Y1o9ovZuVBteVQ-n_homepp1i4j9vgQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Sirielle wrote: Hi Sirielle! > Ai Rhapsody, > > R> Sirielle wrote: > >> Ai pandemonium_213, > >> > >> p> OK, now I'll admit the whole blond F�anor/ blond Aragorn thing was > >> p> thought-provoking. And here I am wondering how Darwinian evolution > >> p> can be accommodated in Arda instead of Tolkien's Lamarckism. Silly me! > >> p> :^D > >> > >> Any ideas on that to share? > > R> Plenty. The past days I have been telling no to a > R> DragonballZ/DragonballGT crossover plotpanda where F�anor and his brood > R> can turn into a super-Saiyan phase where his dark locks turn golden > R> and... come to think of it, it could actually work, being them quite the > R> warriors and those tempers. > > You need to tell it in pictures ;) I might, should be fun and a good reason to be drawing more! Thanks for being such a support regarding that! > > R> What? What!? > > It would still be nice to hear Darwin arguing with Lamarck over origins > of Quendi. I always used to put JRRT among creationism followers, but > I see there is a point about Lamarck. JRRT being a creationist? I know many devote Roman Catholics who firmly believe in evolution, so that isn't necessarily compatible ;) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1474 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63122 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 15:38:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 15:38:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 15:38:24 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD1133E8054 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 16:38:22 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 16:38:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 16:38:24 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <547389224.20080309163824@tlen.pl> To: Rhapsody In-Reply-To: <47D4024C.2020002@gmail.com> References: <63195201.20080309011639@tlen.pl> <47D3C84F.3000708@gmail.com> <1836278668.20080309145458@tlen.pl> <47D4024C.2020002@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=Fv9MwO2-xtpD6VT-W_aq4jStzKN_ijkqCwzgXG4uB9RklJz6XHU X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, R> I might, should be fun and a good reason to be drawing more! Thanks for R> being such a support regarding that! I am waiting for that! R> JRRT being a creationist? I know many devote Roman Catholics who firmly R> believe in evolution, so that isn't necessarily compatible ;) That was brought up when someone made a conclusion that Mahtan got coppery strands in his hair from wearing a copper circlet (which is probably wrong). Anyway inside of Arda we've got creationism, but I see the other idea works as well - kids inherit changes done to parents (beings turned into orcs breed orcs). If I understand Lamarck's the idea properly, of course. That doesn't mean JRRT was creationism follower in real life, but it works on Arda. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1475 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38076 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 16:25:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 16:25:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.125) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 16:25:09 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 28771 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2008 16:25:09 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: kl6E6y0VM1lu_RxtgLP8xTnTZtTM0J3kvIa78TinleJbH7tcrzoL5R1qscNi_Uz9zXkMm_SwOwt5zEgoAPu.8gPb_dGN6SkcE8F_I1M.EYr.v0CeuKA- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:25:09 PDT Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 09:25:09 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <547389224.20080309163824@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-806351529-1205079909=:27645" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <341505.27645.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=Z8cFWp44-VRET9zPi-1aRjARkH3_z4G7lC9x2MkyrrpqAG_4iVq8HAY X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-806351529-1205079909=:27645 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > That was brought up when someone made a conclusion that Mahtan got coppery strands in his hair from wearing a copper circlet (which is probably wrong). Haha, more likely he got GREEN strands in his hair from that copper circlet! (Until he figured out how to keep the copper from oxidizing...) ;D ~T�rion --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-806351529-1205079909=:27645 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > That was brought up when someone made a conclusion that Mahtan got
coppery strands in his hair from wearing a copper circlet (which is
probably wrong).

Haha, more likely he got GREEN strands in his hair from that copper circlet!  (Until he figured out how to keep the copper from oxidizing...) ;D


~T�rion

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-806351529-1205079909=:27645-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1476 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39555 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 16:28:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 16:28:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.148) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 16:28:43 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2008 16:28:43 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2008 16:28:43 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2008 16:28:43 -0000 Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:28:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <547389224.20080309163824@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=GIAh1XbuPJW-yAfhV9ZAyEvWXsdRiI9PbkkqYGyjNdFT3Se1DVGdUHcC X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai Rhapsody, > > R> I might, should be fun and a good reason to = be drawing more! Thanks for > R> being such a support regarding that! > >= I am waiting for that! > > > R> JRRT being a creationist? I know many d= evote Roman Catholics who firmly > R> believe in evolution, so that isn't = necessarily compatible ;) > > That was brought up when someone made a conc= lusion that Mahtan got > coppery strands in his hair from wearing a copper = circlet (which is > probably wrong). Anyway inside of Arda we've got creati= onism, but I see the other idea works as > well - kids inherit changes done= to parents (beings turned into orcs > breed orcs). If I understand Lamarck= 's the idea properly, of course. > > That doesn't mean JRRT was creationis= m follower in real life, but it > works on Arda. > OK, now that I have so= me caffeine in me (up rather late last night), I'll wade into this potentia= l mine field. :^) First, I'll posit that Tolkien, a fellow with signific= ant interest in science, was not a "Young Earth" creationist, but strictly = speaking, as a devout Roman Catholic, I think it's a fair bet that he belie= ved the hand of the divine was behind the creation of the universe, etc. N= ow on to Lamarckism... Henry Gee, who is a major Tolkien fan and sr. edito= r of Nature (I recently stumbled across his blog, "End of the Pier Show" - = predominantly science and society commentary), wrote a chapter about the ev= er-so-popular and contentious origins of the orcs in his entertaining - if = sometimes rambling - "Science of Middle-earth." In it, he pointed out that= successive orcish characteristics followed Lamarckian evolution, i.e., tha= t the characteristics developed by torment and torture of the original race= (Elf or Man, pick your essay) were then passed down through successive gen= erations. That's analogous to the copper circlet giving Mahtan his hair co= lor. Gee pointed out that although Darwinian evolution was certainly accep= ted in JRRT's time, Lamarckism still held some sway. So Gee uses that in h= is "scientific" explanation of the orcs. He has some wild speculation that= the orcs were all female and reproduced by parthenogenesis. OK, that sent= me running away screaming :^D but hey, Henry is as entitled to speculation= as much as anyone else. Anyway, I wondered why biology on Imbar/Ambar (= strictly speaking, the Earth) *had* to be Lamarckian. Again, we are allege= dly reading a *mythology written by historians* who are not exactly evoluti= onary biologists. So there very well could be Darwinian explanations for th= e orcs, compatible with JRRT's essay that they originated from Man, and fit= ting in with his later round earth/coeval sun and moon/Varda's-domes-over-V= alinor essay. Now the Quendi? Hmmmm, well, there's no reason why "indef= inite longevity" would be a favorable adaptation in any kind of Darwinian s= ense. But it's here where the mystery of a secondary world and an imaginar= y history come into play. In "The Notion Club Papers," Tolkien used the t= erm "the wave of the wizard's wand" versus an in depth scientific justifica= tion for certain phenomena. So the "scientific" origins of the Quendi rema= in a mystery. That doesn't mean such origins do not exist. The prevai= ling version of Arda supports young earth creationism, true. But the later = essays in "Myths Transformed" on what you've termed "Arda Rounded" are much= more compatible with what we know (and what was known when Tolkien wrote t= he essays) about our solar system. Here Arda (the solar system) one that i= s far older than some tens of thousands of years. I mean, he has Morgoth = whirling around on Earth before it cooled down! I *love* his later writing= s on this subject. They reflect his scientific acumen and his passion to a= dd realism to his secondary world yet still keep it mysterious and "magical= ." I find the "round earth" essays to be very satisfying and in my opinion= , they do not detract from the mythos at all. If anything, they make his s= econdary world more "real" and thus even easier to immerse oneself in his e= lvish drama. Heck, the "Notion Club Papers" was his attempt to fully conne= ct his secondary world to our primary one or perhaps connect to the contemp= orary history of his secondary world, i.e., an "alternate universe." :^) S= o extrapolating from these latter essays of JRRT, I have to counter Henry G= ee with "Why *not* Darwinian evolution?" From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1477 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57131 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 16:34:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 16:34:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 16:34:33 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D3CF3E80BA for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 17:34:32 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 17:34:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 17:34:32 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1753353342.20080309173432@tlen.pl> To: Tarion Anarore In-Reply-To: <341505.27645.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <547389224.20080309163824@tlen.pl> <341505.27645.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=HokEnW3ChT9mxKstATcCcVsdBLd3OIuKn91mfwBWsf2hQ4IlNBM X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai T�rion, >> That was brought up when someone made a conclusion that Mahtan got TA> coppery strands in his hair from wearing a copper circlet (which is TA> probably wrong). TA> Haha, more likely he got GREEN strands in his hair from that TA> copper circlet!� (Until he figured out how to keep the copper from TA> oxidizing...) ;D I'm sure he did, must have known ways to keep that circlet clean on his and Nelyo heads (as both wore them). Other way it would look crappy mixed with sweat. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1478 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85957 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 16:37:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 16:37:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.126) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 16:37:54 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 67727 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2008 16:37:51 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: J.0Z7Q0VM1mcQeLvwPHoj98fAkNz8BhusWQ2uLnAZVJToffSqSue9.xi2tKPG_y92obY2AF1ln5bDSH9eeUnNH6fW2wUlgeZCb1IMOhVSw8eYziUdgI- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:37:51 PDT Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 09:37:51 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1753353342.20080309173432@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2027824801-1205080671=:66477" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <201264.66477.qm@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=IFvyg4giGEBAEik1v-R99_xqcv0Ce76_1p4DgKUMAo6P7zFuONlJCzw X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-2027824801-1205080671=:66477 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I'm sure he did, must have known ways to keep that circlet clean on his and Nelyo heads (as both wore them). Other way it would look crappy mixed with sweat. Unless Nelyo went through a teenage rebellion phase and was trying for green hair? ;D (joking!) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-2027824801-1205080671=:66477 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I'm sure he did, must have known ways to keep that circlet clean on his and Nelyo heads (as both wore them).
Other way it would look crappy mixed with sweat.

Unless Nelyo went through a teenage rebellion phase and was trying for green hair? ;D (joking!)


~T�rion

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-2027824801-1205080671=:66477-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1479 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86390 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 16:40:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 16:40:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 16:40:02 -0000 X-Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cfd.2bfe04e6 (32913) for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:39:59 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205080799" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5018 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=el4_uELXzM0HB-xYHpBE-bux9SOEUCT7Kbs8IRBnuy0O973s5w X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth -------------------------------1205080799 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Unless Nelyo went through a teenage rebellion phase and was trying for green hair? ;D (joking!) Oi! Keep those plotbunnies in control, they are spawning! :D - Elleth -------------------------------1205080799 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
>Unless Nelyo = went through a teenage rebellion phase and was trying for green hair? ;D (= joking!)
 
Oi! Keep those plotbunnies in control= , they are spawning! :D
 
- Elleth
= -------------------------------1205080799-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1480 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59859 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 16:46:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 16:46:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.125) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 16:46:16 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 41762 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2008 16:46:13 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: C_Rhe3UVM1l.4VeXM3Xvb2ujn67vRyDHzKOY4oUz_k11TDImWIe7dTuVOisaQoC4WzphsXMwL8M6o.n.QTltY8qKKw-- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:46:12 PDT Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 09:46:12 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1407500098-1205081172=:40358" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <317461.40358.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=3jR-qJrFChFKtcFHERndUTK_QFTqfeuWvI-lI7QXuKgdkUqFrdp9wHE X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1407500098-1205081172=:40358 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Oi! Keep those plotbunnies in control, they are spawning! :D Sorry! But I'm not allowed animals in my apartment, so I have to adopt them out. 0;D ~T�rion --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1407500098-1205081172=:40358 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Oi! Keep those plotbunnies in control, they are spawning! :D

Sorry! But I'm not allowed animals in my apartment, so I have to adopt them out. 0;D


~T�rion

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1407500098-1205081172=:40358-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1481 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63170 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 16:46:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 16:46:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 16:46:17 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 444ED74808A for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 17:46:16 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 17:46:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 17:46:16 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <474137162.20080309174616@tlen.pl> To: Tarion Anarore In-Reply-To: <201264.66477.qm@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1753353342.20080309173432@tlen.pl> <201264.66477.qm@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=3jR-qIXFChGQMCSpk8gCjSn5J82fo-GOjtBfRHei1Wbs66NrRFk X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Tarion, TA> Unless Nelyo went through a teenage rebellion phase and was TA> trying for green hair? ;D (joking!) Oh no, green hair was when he made pals with Ossiriand boys and getting body and hair painted green was one of conditions to make the brudershaft ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1482 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44479 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 16:47:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 16:47:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.120) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 16:47:59 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 26459 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2008 16:47:59 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: FhQ1aF4VM1kglz.gD0bDXul85j._ce8yVhUOJEH8ALAT4W0AuW1bH4vZZOyozuhWmcYo6XNxVmKV2V3p5ZmN4gvuHupHvTSZtpcTNTNgk2tepJJEGG8- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:47:59 PDT Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 09:47:59 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <474137162.20080309174616@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-462270528-1205081279=:26195" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <288213.26195.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=uerOWXiufjp9M_rVRd7G_57NaPl3Id9X8N0-cEx6Vbh9B9m-s-x046M X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-462270528-1205081279=:26195 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Oh no, green hair was when he made pals with Ossiriand boys and getting body and hair painted green was one of conditions to make the brudershaft ;) LOL!!! ~T�rion --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-462270528-1205081279=:26195 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Oh no, green hair was when he made pals with Ossiriand boys and
getting body and hair painted green was one of conditions to make the
brudershaft ;)

LOL!!!


~T�rion

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-462270528-1205081279=:26195-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1483 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18597 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 17:19:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 17:19:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.176) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 17:19:02 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j32so1411115waf.19 for ; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:19:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.155.1 with SMTP id c1mr2130101wae.105.1205083140731; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:19:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 10:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 13:19:00 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <705669905.20080308225554@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13981_792081.1205083140723" References: <705669905.20080308225554@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nrdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=h-fiyGJQR3XIeqbV7rSd9158OtI197pHb1JoLJnmFDZp08lZbjfN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_13981_792081.1205083140723-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1484 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4712 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 17:31:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 17:31:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 17:31:07 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id l24so1760628waf.17 for ; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:31:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.13.1 with SMTP id 1mr4500102wam.4.1205083867215; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:31:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 10:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 13:31:07 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <408206.93935.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_14064_15139596.1205083867194" References: <408206.93935.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=OXrLHfBWUQH48f3DE0-goJSXnJueVIc4unPijxAJ5dcDDTGZ6m3N X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_14064_15139596.1205083867194-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1485 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16280 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 17:35:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 17:35:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 17:35:57 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 236EA3E80C4 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 18:35:56 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 18:35:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 18:35:56 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <54592584.20080309183556@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <705669905.20080308225554@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=soEopmiBcFnTfH3N7B_XJTj_YlX-shVsxUkcX4RKoahrdfoZfNM X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> As already stated, the VT issue that Elleth so kindly tracked DF> down for my essay clearly lists Nerdanel as having brown hair. My wonky memory mistake, I cleared it up in next post(s) ;) One of these situations when you look up the quotation you were sure of and it appears to be different. DF> Also interesting is the fact that in the myriad discussions of the DF> color red and red hair in particular in HoMe XII, Nerdanel's hair DF> color is never mentioned. Mahtan, Maedhros, and the twins are DF> quite explicitly listed as being redheads, and it is noted that DF> this coloration was rare among the Noldor. Given this, if Nerdanel DF> was also red-haired, why not discuss it explicitly? Nerdanel is DF> mentioned in Shibboleth but quite noticeably absent from DF> hair-color discussions involving her father and sons. Yes, why not? And why not give Celegorm's hair color in the same essay given all his bros do get a mention (Caranthir even with two different hair colors)? Discrimination, that's what it is! ;) DF> so I don't take anyone's word for anything anymore, no matter how informed I DF> know them to be. I don't even know that person ;) DF> Red-haired Nerdanel a fanon that I personally use DF> and like ... but it's still a fanon, so far as I'm concerned. Fanon = something believed is canon but isn't = then yes, fanon. Brown and auburn aren't that different on pictures. I just bookmarked explanations at Wkipedia of all hair colors, need to read carefully one day. Brown and red aren't in the same group as I thought. DF> And why do these discussions always come back to hair color?? :^D I know, I started it ... Because you are surrounded by hair freak(s) ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1486 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26373 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 17:39:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 17:39:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 17:39:41 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAD3C58060 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 18:39:31 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 18:39:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 18:39:32 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <398234885.20080309183932@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <408206.93935.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=EiFyteezmFMt0b4rII9ts7Gp5tSnxscFlnFH9Ny_K-D6mvDvezw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> So this is a reality of colors. Another nice example. DF> Would JRRT have been aware of it? Quite possibly. Or just based his visions on his countrymen, as the whole race reflects them more or less. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1487 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8524 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 17:47:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 17:47:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 17:47:48 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id l24so2400818waf.22 for ; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:47:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.22.1 with SMTP id z1mr2148162wai.33.1205084868672; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:47:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 10:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 13:47:48 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_14132_24658947.1205084868666" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=2mAJqZgjXGYDv_3YUzrD9c1thm-hcnMvKQRuojbtPZeORztMSF6T X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_14132_24658947.1205084868666-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1488 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76870 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 18:09:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 18:09:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 18:09:49 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so1763083wah.25 for ; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 11:09:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.14.1 with SMTP id 1mr2165052wan.125.1205086188514; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 11:09:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 11:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:09:48 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <54592584.20080309183556@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_14167_10199346.1205086188499" References: <705669905.20080308225554@tlen.pl> <54592584.20080309183556@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=3s8HNzQcbAtYEcQmx8wsmHaqGRBmPNrKTbzZEGdW1K_Jl_KD0Zj_ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_14167_10199346.1205086188499-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1489 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81582 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 18:21:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 18:21:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 18:21:25 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042C7748085 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 19:21:19 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 19:21:17 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 19:21:19 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1497738763.20080309192119@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <705669905.20080308225554@tlen.pl> <54592584.20080309183556@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[6]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Nerdanel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=qOGMEVpLIhrzO5W3pZRnRUbdaUW80tvK-1HlIvrnfvnOMyPtlkg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> I got to your reply right after I dashed off my answer and DF> had a *headdesk* moment ... precisely why one should read all of DF> her emails before chiming in. Sorry! :) No need to be sorry, it's impossible to read all and then reply if something is catching attention. I still got old posts to read. ATM I read forums, pandemonium's post and trying to remember I was going to eat something ages ago but forgotten. I've got stupid head ache day today. DF> We're currently at my parents' house after waking up DF> this morning and finding our house temperature at 39F/4C Oh my, that's cold for indoor O_o DF> And, actually, you know it makes sense! Aren't we told in DF> "Laws and Customs" that Elves loved beautiful hair? So I guess DF> that if they thought it was important, then we feel we should too. DF> ;) They loved all beauty and shines and we love them, so we love what they love ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1490 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55217 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2008 19:40:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2008 19:40:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.225) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2008 19:40:50 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so787181wra.17 for ; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 12:40:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.93.17 with SMTP id q17mr2270586wab.70.1205091643729; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 12:40:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 15:40:43 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8410699125.20080308220205@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_14514_27271629.1205091643723" References: <354559453.20080308154312@tlen.pl> <8410699125.20080308220205@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] A side reflection on canon and poetic license X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=gNwJcdMf7gDtVIpQhgmLvq1FkJ8Qfcr0e5AFiDiQB_TWzFvazpF6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_14514_27271629.1205091643723-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1491 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13035 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 03:25:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 03:25:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 03:25:22 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m38so2038403waf.16 for ; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:25:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.168.1 with SMTP id q1mr2941141wae.74.1205119522191; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:25:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Mar 2008 20:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 23:25:22 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_16156_24489118.1205119522182" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month :: War X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=4HeJcSiauyYx4VjpM5b0pzqwFKInxQAJ-vG17GBlccCcvAE5NTBK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_16156_24489118.1205119522182-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1492 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31474 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 13:49:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 13:49:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 13:49:47 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130F93E80A1 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:49:46 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:49:45 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:49:43 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1945044575.20080310144943@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=WddiLnXYJ3_J8KoOAL-z712Bc8hk1RR4uEGxhs840BlZLvkC6do X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Hello. I asked at Facebook forums again and got such answer about the question of Maedhros being alike Mahtan: "No, I'm afraid I can't quote the line. I only said I suspected it was in VT because that tidbit is not in the Letters or any of HoME series (but mentioned in several Maedhros profiles/articles/essays.), but I can't confirm it for sure (as I, unfortunately, do not own a copy of VT #41). Sorry. But if anyone can ahold of Michael Martinez (I tried emailing him a year and several months ago and I never got a reply), who stated the similarities between Maedhros and Mahtan in his Finweans essay." So we know nothing again. If Martinez wrote about it than maybe it is somewhere in source materials, but also it could be his own hypothesis, as it's mine, nothing more. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1493 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44484 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 14:28:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 14:28:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.168) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 14:28:52 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so2007770wfc.19 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.125.5 with SMTP id x5mr1681271wfc.191.1205159332137; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i30sm9055067ugd.38.2008.03.10.07.28.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D545E8.9020509@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:30:00 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <1945044575.20080310144943@tlen.pl> In-Reply-To: <1945044575.20080310144943@tlen.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=zpNtNtKRozOXHo91YJuMip7iSBVGe5LwGfMKurxqdq91jCz6Zq-pQyA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Sirielle wrote: > Hello. > > I asked at Facebook forums again and got such answer about the question of > Maedhros being alike Mahtan: > > "No, I'm afraid I can't quote the line. I only said I suspected it was > in VT because that tidbit is not in the Letters or any of HoME series > (but mentioned in several Maedhros profiles/articles/essays.), but I > can't confirm it for sure (as I, unfortunately, do not own a copy of > VT #41). Sorry. But if anyone can ahold of Michael Martinez (I tried > emailing him a year and several months ago and I never got a reply), > who stated the similarities between Maedhros and Mahtan in his > Finweans essay." > > So we know nothing again. If Martinez wrote about it than maybe it is > somewhere in source materials, but also it could be his own hypothesis, as > it's mine, nothing more. I am not sure if this what is what you're looking for, but from my own research: (1) Maitimo 'well-shaped one': he was of beautiful bodily form. But he, and the youngest, inherited the rare red-brown hair of Nerdanel's kin, Her father had the epesse of rusco 'fox'. So Maitimo had as an epesse given by his brothers and other kin Russandol 'copper-top'.(61) 61. [On a separate page written at the same time is a note on the father of Nerdanel (Feanor's wife); Nerdanel's father was an 'Aulendil' [> 'Aulendur'], and became a great smith. He loved copper, and set it above gold. His name was [space; pencilled later Sarmo?], but he was most widely known as Urundil 'copper-lover'. He usually wore a band of copper about his head. His hair was not as dark or black as was that of most of the Noldor, but brown, and had glints of coppery-red in it. Of Nerdanel's seven children the oldest, and the twins (a very rare thing among the Eldar) had hair of this kind. The eldest also wore a copper circlet. A note is appended to Aulendur: 'Servant of Aule': sc. one who was devoted to that Vala. It was applied especially to those persons, or families, among the Noldor who actually entered Aule's service, and who in return received instruction from him. A second note on this page comments on the name Urundil: v RUN 'red, glowing', most often applied to things like embers, hence adjective runya, Sindarin ruin ' "fiery" red'. The Eldar had words for some metals, because under Orome's instruction they had devised weapons against Morgoth's servants especially on the March, but the only ones that appear in all Eldarin languages were iron, copper, gold and silver (ANGA, URUN> MALAT> KYELEP). Earlier Nerdanel's father, the great smith, had been named Mahtan (see X.272, 277), and he was so called in the published Silmarillion. For earlier statements concerning the arming of the Eldar on the Great Journey see X.276 - 7, 281.] 65. [The text ends with brief notes on the 'Sindarizing' of the Quenya names of the Sons of Feanor, but these are too rapid, elliptical, and illegible to be reproduced. It may be mentioned, however, that Sindarin Maedros is explained as containing elements of Nelyafinwe's mother-name Maitimo (Common Eldarin magit- 'shapely', Sindarin maed) and of his epesse Russandol (Common Eldarin russa, Sindarin ross); and also that the Sindarin form of Ambarussa (numbered 6, i.e. the elder twin) is here Amros, not Amras.] History of Middle-Earth, The Peoples of Middle-earth, XI. The Shibboleth of F�anor: With an excursus on the name of the descendants of Finwe. The names of the Sons of Feanor with the legend of the fate of Amrod. The one -ros was supposed (at its adoption) in Elros to contain a Sindarin stem *ross- from base ROS 'spray, spindrift' (as scattered by a wind from a fountain, waterfall, or breaking waves).(1) The other is supposed to be a colour word, referring to the red, red-brown hair of the first, sixth, and seventh sons of Feanor, descending to them from their maternal grandfather, father of Nerdanel, Feanor's wife, a great craftsman, devoted to the Vala Aule. History of Middle-Earth, The Peoples of Middle-earth, XII. The problem of ros. Were this the quotes you were looking for in reference to Mahtan? Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1494 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10838 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:11:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:11:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:11:31 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191FC74806C for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:11:19 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:11:18 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:11:19 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <861076491.20080310161119@tlen.pl> To: Rhapsody In-Reply-To: <47D545E8.9020509@gmail.com> References: <1945044575.20080310144943@tlen.pl> <47D545E8.9020509@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=zdVtd9mQN54VrvCX8hieRnqOvBiO503WZieySvwtZuI2AJ9IxUU X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, R> I am not sure if this what is what you're looking for, but from my own R> research: Thank you, I've got HoME XII, but will paste it into a separate TXT file to have all in one place. I was looking for the mysterious possible quotation from Vinyar Tengwar about Maedhros and Mahtan being alike, which could inspire Martinez and others - as in the response I got from the person at forums. But yes these quotations about hair color comparisons could be that, too. Maybe people just thought it must be something more and search for it. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1495 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23054 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:16:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:16:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:16:22 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 69530 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 15:16:22 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: mJtAFTsVM1lCT.8JxLas2adlBxIzSTCHryXniGkQNFOU1yS2Sm5sunUTJ0CkidxKm8cOaBlSe2LFDPilBEFqv9c0HnFbxdswPX2LPNMLa4xRf9PvrhRzcHKWF03o0M4YM6RYe_0Sa5nv2bQ- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:16:22 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:16:22 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <861076491.20080310161119@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1329527730-1205162182=:68985" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <228049.68985.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=tMO33uI0Erlje8Oaf8Mwss1UhyaMvk2nfwGKSJaEFI-n1-j96A X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1329527730-1205162182=:68985 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit How expensive are these Vinyar Tengwar? Maybe we should all contribute to a joint copy that someone can scan. LOL Sirielle wrote: Ai Rhapsody, R> I am not sure if this what is what you're looking for, but from my own R> research: Thank you, I've got HoME XII, but will paste it into a separate TXT file to have all in one place. I was looking for the mysterious possible quotation from Vinyar Tengwar about Maedhros and Mahtan being alike, which could inspire Martinez and others - as in the response I got from the person at forums. But yes these quotations about hair color comparisons could be that, too. Maybe people just thought it must be something more and search for it. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1329527730-1205162182=:68985 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit How expensive are these Vinyar Tengwar? Maybe we should all contribute to a joint copy that someone can scan. LOL

Sirielle wrote:
Ai Rhapsody,

R> I am not sure if this what is what you're looking for, but from my own
R> research:

Thank you, I've got HoME XII, but will paste it into a separate TXT
file to have all in one place. I was looking for the mysterious
possible quotation from Vinyar Tengwar about Maedhros and Mahtan being
alike, which could inspire Martinez and others - as in the response I
got from the person at forums. But yes these quotations about hair color
comparisons could be that, too. Maybe people just thought it must be
something more and search for it.

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1329527730-1205162182=:68985-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1496 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 36256 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:24:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:24:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.107) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:24:57 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n11.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:24:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:24:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:24:57 -0000 X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4872 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:17:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:17:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.77) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:17:44 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 85049 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 15:17:41 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: RipUrtwVM1nfYUin1M5bD1vHIcW05.83_n8n7la8OwoM_3mxJn4gtGQUQY.80iwbLqt4fxfcpgG9_DTRC63cV2yYoseDQgNoZtIkNz4NiToGcqKT1E3W8aXKomGlYfRygnM0sAX5Dk7OXpRadnetorgQBvc.6ec- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:17:41 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:17:41 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <408206.93935.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <261771.84762.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: hair color: black or brown? [Was: Question about AU on the Archive] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=n5KZRjPXhGhoV-19kdCH7cDyR6vC1s2CyC6CxRCfJOlDR0hsjsjBh_zUX9rs X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 10 Mar 2008 15:24:56 -0000 LOL. I missed this whole hair-color sub-thread since I didn't log on over the weekend, but it's causing some chuckles this morning. I think if I were reading a story that went on and on about how the hair was dark, almost black, with touches of chestnut and looked downright auburn in the full sunlight, I'd think the author had gone over the too-darn-much-detail cliff, and I'd probably stop reading. On the flip side, how kick-booty is it that Tolkien *thought* about all these things in such detail? What a guy! viv --- Alassante7 wrote: > The issue of black vs. very dark brown makes me > laugh because I work at a company that makes airline > seats and we have over a hundred shades of black and > off-black not to be confused with the various shades > of gray, dark brown, etc. lol I bet none of our > customers would say that their seats were off-black > rather than black. So maybe color is in the eye of > the beholder. http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1497 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 46289 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:25:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:25:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:25:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:25:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:25:09 -0000 X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10461 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:24:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:24:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.75) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:24:24 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 87062 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 15:24:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: y9aLoXsVM1nkq9k6XOYZOGITD7YHo13WTCKEY5H8AERayxaIj_Oas3TDSqXZM0ZfbSTySrhca8PrrzRIfH03u2RYGTX4kTHD1npfTiO8JGc.ny7CEQPjhMgW4PCe4S2xr0kljxm4cb1h1vHN5SUcm55zpMG_s1E- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:24:20 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:24:20 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1753353342.20080309173432@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <49975.86461.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=7pzBmP_4mQGYJdYGIXW1fj11p4ay9HIx98EZu71aqU9Ab4IWBtbBMwv4CcgW X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 10 Mar 2008 15:25:08 -0000 Elves sweat?! Sorry, I know that sounded like a weak attempt at a joke, but I've often wondered. Sure, armor-plated Numenoreans must've smelled just nasty, but I've always imagined elves had a natural deoderant thing going on. I don't suppose that was the sort of detail JRRT thought necessary to discuss. ;) viv --- Sirielle wrote: > I'm sure he did, must have known ways to keep that > circlet clean on his and Nelyo heads (as both wore > them). > Other way it would look crappy mixed with sweat. http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1498 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50103 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:26:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:26:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:26:26 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F173958009 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:26:25 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:26:24 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:26:26 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <817788635.20080310162626@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <228049.68985.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <861076491.20080310161119@tlen.pl> <228049.68985.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ujmBkwsqh0iRavpjaRCdT-WiHHd9FezJRUVyoqcqa8GFOaxDwH0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, A> How expensive are these Vinyar Tengwar? Maybe we should all A> contribute to a joint copy that someone can scan. LOL I'm going to get a few issues one day, anyway. Right now I can ask at Polish forums, a few people subscribe it. Only who has got a time for scanning, it's easier to ask for a little quote. But now it's a question to state where it is if this quote exists at all. VT is sold via Lulu.com and older issues are sold in one pack: http://www.elvish.org/VT/ Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1499 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23485 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:34:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:34:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n53b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.167) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:34:28 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n53.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:34:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:34:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:34:28 -0000 X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4691 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:32:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:32:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.75) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:32:12 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 93132 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 15:32:12 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: btJlVDgVM1lxndOP.orHyglmnUBVvkC.mhZHg59cX42oZBYZQ.1Wj2lSEsC2UGlAhu3eaPfzsQEN9YifTeYEQhO.XVPex6mQTjABU0no18E0O0HHNo6FCwJIBcI_udd0RPZE1hCZ9_Kmr2Gbksouy5dnHEqgnnA- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:32:11 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:32:11 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <23766.91988.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=M9zWITeIMN40XRr5S7FiMb0iboTLjoQardr3bJXxqFwsV8Q-6cQSH1GCZOFf X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 10 Mar 2008 15:34:27 -0000 Oh noes: someone mentioned semicolons. ;) JRRT's punctuation and usage was all the crack back then, though it's very not acceptable now. And sure, if ficwriters try to imitate his style, it makes my 21st-century-grammarista brain boil, but it'd be ultra dopey of me to mention it in a review. So, dude, if a reviewer goes off on you about semicolons, refer them to me for a good ol-fashioned hand slap, yes? viv --- Dawn Felagund wrote: > opinion, of course.) If I insist on using semicolons > where a comma is > needed, it is a valid criticism to point out my > mistake. http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1500 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87240 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:41:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:41:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:41:28 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so1922416waf.20 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:41:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.198.1 with SMTP id v1mr3491786waf.130.1205163687318; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:41:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:41:27 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <228049.68985.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19576_982090.1205163687308" References: <861076491.20080310161119@tlen.pl> <228049.68985.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=XDdIK3lEfuMq059sFAml3rHVYD2RuM1oF4Qaee19Mx8SICDDsgdM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_19576_982090.1205163687308-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1501 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3825 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:42:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:42:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.249) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:42:58 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n29.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:42:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:42:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:42:58 -0000 X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92863 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:41:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:41:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.100) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:41:51 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 27594 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 15:41:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: P3A1L_QVM1lTNVpfgpBwLTp_BT.h75C4JROxuCiOoSW_rtUgq4hZL_LCrxH9HOttvWJyVUe6NlDXuN5SZ_q2GnxUJc1pHRVp_S225_gtcEJvEXPUFlJ7kQevT6saK.HSQ8IZ2iL65fNVo0feHWXDN.5o2Nui86ApfjHHbhpj_xP2e3lUfMAszy2fkOI- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:41:50 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:41:50 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <49975.86461.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1132658829-1205163710=:27423" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <706832.27423.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=TB63dI4_C0aAyRi8_mLiMuTO0pIBk9sTKX2qYPePjsNW8o8S9A X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 10 Mar 2008 15:42:58 -0000 --0-1132658829-1205163710=:27423 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We had this debate one time on OSA I think. There are those that are VERY against the theory that elves can sweat and get quite offended if they see it in a fiction. Personally - mine sweat just cause the thought of a sweaty elf is hot. Viv wrote: Elves sweat?! Sorry, I know that sounded like a weak attempt at a joke, but I've often wondered. Sure, armor-plated Numenoreans must've smelled just nasty, but I've always imagined elves had a natural deoderant thing going on. I don't suppose that was the sort of detail JRRT thought necessary to discuss. ;) viv --- Sirielle wrote: > I'm sure he did, must have known ways to keep that > circlet clean on his and Nelyo heads (as both wore > them). > Other way it would look crappy mixed with sweat. http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1132658829-1205163710=:27423 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We had this debate one time on OSA I think. There are those that are VERY against the theory that elves can sweat and get quite offended if they see it in a fiction. Personally - mine sweat just cause the thought of a sweaty elf is hot.

Viv wrote:
Elves sweat?!

Sorry, I know that sounded like a weak attempt at a
joke, but I've often wondered. Sure, armor-plated
Numenoreans must've smelled just nasty, but I've
always imagined elves had a natural deoderant thing
going on. I don't suppose that was the sort of detail
JRRT thought necessary to discuss. ;)

viv

--- Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> wrote:

> I'm sure he did, must have known ways to keep that
> circlet clean on his and Nelyo heads (as both wore
> them).
> Other way it would look crappy mixed with sweat.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1132658829-1205163710=:27423-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1502 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29013 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.132) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:43:56 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:43:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:43:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:43:56 -0000 X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22211 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:43:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:43:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.98) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:43:30 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 33987 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 15:43:30 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: TEjCuSAVM1nBkv33UKURz86y1oM_QY6wdTzvm87T8zzIDYJxdvbUpLPcMFAc0BQ1Zg-- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:43:30 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:43:30 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1850529640-1205163810=:22984" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <378885.22984.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:2:2:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=4CBBiZYnmsjFkjjrBiz9jTFyTdwdbk0bIyelepUQqfiyqLM2qQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 10 Mar 2008 15:43:56 -0000 --0-1850529640-1205163810=:22984 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit They are only $3/year for the new/upcoming releases but the older ones would be less than $100 to get them all. Dawn Felagund wrote: Hi, Al, I've actually thought of doing that ... ;) Dawn On 3/10/08, Alassante7 wrote: How expensive are these Vinyar Tengwar? Maybe we should all contribute to a joint copy that someone can scan. LOL Sirielle wrote: Ai Rhapsody, R> I am not sure if this what is what you're looking for, but from my own R> research: Thank you, I've got HoME XII, but will paste it into a separate TXT file to have all in one place. I was looking for the mysterious possible quotation from Vinyar Tengwar about Maedhros and Mahtan being alike, which could inspire Martinez and others - as in the response I got from the person at forums. But yes these quotations about hair color comparisons could be that, too. Maybe people just thought it must be something more and search for it. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-1850529640-1205163810=:22984 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit They are only $3/year for the new/upcoming releases but the older ones would be less than $100 to get them all.

Dawn Felagund wrote:
Hi, Al,
 
I've actually thought of doing that ... ;)
 
Dawn

 
On 3/10/08, Alassante7 <alassante7@yahoo.com> wrote:
How expensive are these Vinyar Tengwar? Maybe we should all contribute to a joint copy that someone can scan. LOL

Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> wrote:
Ai Rhapsody,

R> I am not sure if this what is what you're looking for, but from my own
R> research:

Thank you, I've got HoME XII, but will paste it into a separate TXT
file to have all in one place. I was looking for the mysterious
possible quotation from Vinyar Tengwar about Maedhros and Mahtan being
alike, which could inspire Martinez and others - as in the response I
got from the person at forums. But yes these quotations about hair color
comparisons could be that, too. Maybe people just thought it must be
something more and search for it.

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/

 
~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-1850529640-1205163810=:22984-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1503 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78224 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:45:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:45:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:45:30 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:45:30 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:45:30 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:45:30 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:45:29 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <378885.22984.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-SNNCJ1yLgH2KWckC1ch3C4EktbjXiRxCvvaL54wjGFP79ubTJzP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hmmm ... That actually is not unreasonable. Does anyone have any informati= on on how to order them? I could ask for them for our birthday in July! ;^= D Dawn --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > They are only $3/year for the new/upcoming releases = but the older ones would be less than $100 to get them all. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1504 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21058 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:49:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:49:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO gv-out-0910.google.com) (216.239.58.189) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:49:55 -0000 X-Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l14so530126gvf.12 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:49:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.158.17 with SMTP id g17mr1824693wfe.106.1205164194435; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:49:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:49:54 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19653_2193654.1205164194436" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Yahoo! Spam Problem X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YMSa7FJNbzz7AM295NAbu3qHWj2-FoPpIwl9mjE5RBbVpjEZ-aNJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_19653_2193654.1205164194436-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1505 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 73697 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:50:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:50:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.56) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:50:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:50:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:50:25 -0000 X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48417 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:46:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:46:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:46:12 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 91636 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 15:46:12 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: xImpBZIVM1m3KqUPFClu9dIWw2Sg83ZuJ901TY3B X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:46:11 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:46:11 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <378885.22984.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-661332708-1205163971=:91583" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <963111.91583.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:2:2:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=2vEqm5vr8Tv6Gr01NkFKCZhcuKuIQcdzrN2cuU2X628_WgtRBQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 X-Yahoo-Marked-Not-Spam: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 10 Mar 2008 15:50:23 -0000 --0-661332708-1205163971=:91583 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oh and I have a huge scanner at work that scans everything to pdf files. Alassante7 wrote: They are only $3/year for the new/upcoming releases but the older ones would be less than $100 to get them all. Dawn Felagund wrote: Hi, Al, I've actually thought of doing that ... ;) Dawn On 3/10/08, Alassante7 wrote: How expensive are these Vinyar Tengwar? Maybe we should all contribute to a joint copy that someone can scan. LOL Sirielle wrote: Ai Rhapsody, R> I am not sure if this what is what you're looking for, but from my own R> research: Thank you, I've got HoME XII, but will paste it into a separate TXT file to have all in one place. I was looking for the mysterious possible quotation from Vinyar Tengwar about Maedhros and Mahtan being alike, which could inspire Martinez and others - as in the response I got from the person at forums. But yes these quotations about hair color comparisons could be that, too. Maybe people just thought it must be something more and search for it. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-661332708-1205163971=:91583 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oh and I have a huge scanner at work that scans everything to pdf files.

Alassante7 wrote:
They are only $3/year for the new/upcoming releases but the older ones would be less than $100 to get them all.

Dawn Felagund gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Al,
 
I've actually thought of doing that ... ;)
 
Dawn

 
On 3/10/08, Alassante7 <alassante7@yahoo.com> wrote:
How expensive are these Vinyar Tengwar? Maybe we should all contribute to a joint copy that someone can scan. LOL

Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> wrote:
Ai Rhapsody,

R> I am not sure if this what is what you're looking for, but from my own
R> research:

Thank you, I've got HoME XII, but will paste it into a separate TXT
file to have all in one place. I was looking for the mysterious
possible quotation from Vinyar Tengwar about Maedhros and Mahtan being
alike, which could inspire Martinez and others - as in the response I
got from the person at forums. But yes these quotations about hair color
comparisons could be that, too. Maybe people just thought it must be
something more and search for it.

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/

 
~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-661332708-1205163971=:91583-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1506 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11888 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:56:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:56:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:56:48 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so1927839waf.20 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:56:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.169.2 with SMTP id r2mr3882214wae.118.1205164607616; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:56:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:56:47 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <963111.91583.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19720_22852392.1205164607586" References: <378885.22984.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <963111.91583.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=pmi3b9GYUMUyl0EENB_KHMKVGe1WlRNnKTFIJBc3ETE3weQ487ql X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_19720_22852392.1205164607586-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1507 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19954 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:57:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:57:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n35a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.129) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:57:59 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n35.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:57:59 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:57:59 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 15:57:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:57:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=dGp-ZOwMJiD0gtXlNWOK07n9YXVili1_r2aOFIBMwzvLXzsOtdOOurs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Hmmm ... > > That actually is not unreasonable. Does a= nyone have any information on > how to order them? I could ask for them fo= r our birthday in July! ;^D Well yes, as much as I love the idea, scanning= them & making them available for a group of this size is still a huge viol= ation of copyright... Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1508 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55249 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 15:59:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 15:59:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 15:59:15 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 45748 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 15:59:15 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: YOaV5hEVM1n39KbMtCecHgWRYY9q7qvF1dglB6UkWTKHZcL.G6rUEoVBhStXHQsuhkMAv0UhGVone3csVywhOMy0v0F7ZW7l.wgw2baymgPsNv8ijXSTcXWH7uPa X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:59:15 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:59:15 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1211838134-1205164755=:44017" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <111811.44017.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=Pbm_cfxZBLhKWY-W2xKeG9VisR-CVefx_y1T7dOTNfsaegQJjA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1211838134-1205164755=:44017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone have a copy of this? I'm trying to buy one and the last one I bought online said it was illustrated but it just had the maps and the cover was illustrated. I'm trying to make sure I'm getting the right one. Can someone tell me what the cover looks like and what year it was published. The one I found on Ebay has the red cover of Maglor throwing the Silmaril. Is this the one that has the illustrations inside by Ted Nasmith. Also - has anyone heard of the Tales of Perilous Realm and Roverandum? I just found those online too - both are Tolkein books part of the "Black Edition" (along with UT and the Silm) ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1211838134-1205164755=:44017 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone have a copy of this? I'm trying to buy one and the last one I bought online said it was illustrated but it just had the maps and the cover was illustrated. I'm trying to make sure I'm getting the right one. Can someone tell me what the cover looks like and what year it was published. The one I found on Ebay has the red cover of Maglor throwing the Silmaril. Is this the one that has the illustrations inside by Ted Nasmith. Also - has anyone heard of the Tales of Perilous Realm and Roverandum? I just found those online too - both are Tolkein books part of the "Black Edition" (along with UT and the Silm)

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1211838134-1205164755=:44017-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1509 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29316 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 16:05:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 16:05:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.97) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 16:05:00 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 69833 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 16:04:57 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lmYR5zkVM1lPtxEomHNozdM748rUtbeXPH6t.fzslEatNGdGiB2ee53oGgC6fdPplbZ9zZJUtbnFGpkALMrWNvDwhzVpINNtNsSjmGtdjX4eqRfVuxM- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:04:56 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:04:56 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-804224041-1205165096=:69366" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <89358.69366.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=IkIC32NAkv6pknYyZBzdIYHl6XPU4Rgky8HzNMsTNNAXBEk-PA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-804224041-1205165096=:69366 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.elvish.org/VT/shop.html or http://www.lulu.com/ELF/ Dawn Felagund wrote: Hmmm ... That actually is not unreasonable. Does anyone have any information on how to order them? I could ask for them for our birthday in July! ;^D Dawn --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > They are only $3/year for the new/upcoming releases but the older ones would be less than $100 to get them all. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-804224041-1205165096=:69366 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.elvish.org/VT/shop.html  or http://www.lulu.com/ELF/

Dawn Felagund wrote:
Hmmm ...

That actually is not unreasonable. Does anyone have any information on
how to order them? I could ask for them for our birthday in July! ;^D

Dawn

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7
...> wrote:
>
> They are only $3/year for the new/upcoming releases but the older
ones would be less than $100 to get them all.




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-804224041-1205165096=:69366-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1510 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53117 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 16:21:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 16:21:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 16:21:15 -0000 X-Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d5f.24334f28 (65098) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:21:09 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205166069" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5018 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=2fRWCLAVmyvuYZsePcziH13aloPOgXbCAnacfupBRC8hoOwJWQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth -------------------------------1205166069 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Does anyone have a copy of this? I'm trying to buy one and the last one I= bought online said it was >illustrated but it just had the maps and the = cover was illustrated. I'm trying to make sure I'm getting the right >one.= Can someone tell me what the cover looks like and what year it was publi= shed. The one I found on >Ebay has the red cover of Maglor throwing the S= ilmaril. Is this the one that has the illustrations inside by >Ted Nasmit= h. Also - has anyone heard of the Tales of Perilous Realm and Roverandum?= I just found those >online too - both are Tolkein books part of the "Bla= ck Edition" (along with UT and the Silm) I'm not sure which copy you're= referring to, but a few years ago I bought this (couldn't find it on ama= zon.com, so a link to amazon.de will have to do - _http://www.amazon.de/S= ilmarillion-J-R-Tolkien/dp/0007173024/ref=3Dsr_1_3?ie=3DUTF8 &s=3Dbooks-int= l-de&qid=3D1205164911&sr=3D1-3_ (http://www.amazon.de/Silmarillion-J-R-Tol= kien/dp/00071730 24/ref=3Dsr_1_3?ie=3DUTF8&s=3Dbooks-intl-de&qid=3D12051649= 11&sr=3D1-3) ). Hardcover, illustrations by Nasmith (the first sunrise, t= he Teleri crossing the sea, Taniquetil, Alqualonde, Losgar, Helcaraxe, Be= ren and L=FAthien,several for the T=FArin arc, Maglor throwing the Silmar= il, and at least one [the one on the cover] for N=FAmenor - there may be = more, I'm just recounting from memory as I don't have the book here right= now). Published in 2004. It's well worth the money, though. I think the = one with Maglor on the cover also has those illustrations, but I'm not su= re. Roverandom is a children's story Tolkien wrote for one of his sons. I= t's only marginally connected to Middle-earth, if at all, but it's a very= sweet story nonetheless... a little dog's adventures, which take him (am= ong others) to the moon and to the merking's realms - worth a read. :) Th= ere is an illustrated version, though I'm not sure if those are Tolkien's= own drawings. They might be. Tales of the Perilous Realm is a collection= of several shorter songs and poems: Farmer Giles of Ham, Leaf by Niggle,= The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, and Smith of Wootton Major (Farmer Giles= battles a Dragon, and Smith of Wootton Major finds a way to Faery - both= are really lovely, I don't know the others). No idea if there are any il= lustrated editions for TotPR, but I know for a fact that numerous illustr= ations for Leaf by Niggle exist. Hope that helps! - Elleth -------------------------------1205166069 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
>Does anyone = have a copy of this? I'm trying to buy one and the last one I bought onlin= e said it was >illustrated but it just had the maps and the cover was i= llustrated. I'm trying to make sure I'm getting the right >one. Can som= eone tell me what the cover looks like and what year it was published. The= one I found on >Ebay has the red cover of Maglor throwing the Silmaril.= Is this the one that has the illustrations inside by >Ted Nasmith. Als= o - has anyone heard of the Tales of Perilous Realm and Roverand= um? I just found those >online too - both are Tolkein books part of the= "Black Edition" (along with UT and the Silm)
 
I'm not sure which copy you're referring to, but a few years ago I bought = this (couldn't find it on amazon.com, so a link to amazon.de will have to = do - http://www.amazon.de/Silmarillion-J-R-Tolkien/dp/0007173024/ref=3Ds= r_1_3?ie=3DUTF8&s=3Dbooks-intl-de&qid=3D1205164911&sr=3D1-3=  ). Hardcover, illustrations by Nasmith (the first sunrise, the Teler= i crossing the sea, Taniquetil, Alqualonde, Losgar, Helcaraxe, Beren and L= =FAthien,several for the T=FArin arc, Maglor throwing the Silmaril, and at= least one [the one on the cover] for N=FAmenor - there may be more, I'm j= ust recounting from memory as I don't have the book here right now). Publi= shed in 2004. It's well worth the money, though. I think the one with Magl= or on the cover also has those illustrations, but I'm not sure.
 
Roverandom is a children's story Tolkien wrote for one o= f his sons. It's only marginally connected to Middle-earth, if at all, but= it's a very sweet story nonetheless... a little dog's adventures, which&n= bsp;take him (among others) to the moon and to the merking's realms - wort= h a read. :) There is an illustrated version, though I'm not sure if those= are Tolkien's own drawings. They might be.
Tales of the Perilo= us Realm is a collection of several shorter songs and poems: Farmer Giles = of Ham, Leaf by Niggle, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, and Smith of Woott= on Major (Farmer Giles battles a Dragon, and Smith of Wootton Major finds = a way to Faery - both are really lovely, I don't know the others). No idea= if there are any illustrated editions for TotPR, but I know for a fact th= at numerous illustrations for Leaf by Niggle exist.
 
Hope that helps!
 
- Elleth
= -------------------------------1205166069-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1511 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66867 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 16:37:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 16:37:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.180) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 16:37:20 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m38so2407572waf.5 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:37:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.49.16 with SMTP id b16mr3547909wak.65.1205167038258; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:37:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:37:18 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20069_1566494.1205167038250" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uY1XW0V2paWz2JaR8zhm6I27z_V1GknHGrtCYbuEtFjlF6DP0ygT X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_20069_1566494.1205167038250-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1512 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29384 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 16:39:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 16:39:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.100) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 16:39:59 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 71092 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 16:39:52 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: UlLmjxQVM1l6_7KX8V.KkHEKOjwSPI163uYzIdpj X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:39:52 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:39:52 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2040048912-1205167192=:70878" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <729182.70878.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=bKt60FhEF2Krs6hJXeNzmhIMcKAT7iVPw-hykJ7zRlzrjWHqmw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-2040048912-1205167192=:70878 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks so much! That is a different cover than the one I was going to bid on so I better research it further. LadyElleth@aol.com wrote: >Does anyone have a copy of this? I'm trying to buy one and the last one I bought online said it was >illustrated but it just had the maps and the cover was illustrated. I'm trying to make sure I'm getting the right >one. Can someone tell me what the cover looks like and what year it was published. The one I found on >Ebay has the red cover of Maglor throwing the Silmaril. Is this the one that has the illustrations inside by >Ted Nasmith. Also - has anyone heard of the Tales of Perilous Realm and Roverandum? I just found those >online too - both are Tolkein books part of the "Black Edition" (along with UT and the Silm) I'm not sure which copy you're referring to, but a few years ago I bought this (couldn't find it on amazon.com, so a link to amazon.de will have to do - http://www.amazon.de/Silmarillion-J-R-Tolkien/dp/0007173024/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books-intl-de&qid=1205164911&sr=1-3 ). Hardcover, illustrations by Nasmith (the first sunrise, the Teleri crossing the sea, Taniquetil, Alqualonde, Losgar, Helcaraxe, Beren and L�thien,several for the T�rin arc, Maglor throwing the Silmaril, and at least one [the one on the cover] for N�menor - there may be more, I'm just recounting from memory as I don't have the book here right now). Published in 2004. It's well worth the money, though. I think the one with Maglor on the cover also has those illustrations, but I'm not sure. Roverandom is a children's story Tolkien wrote for one of his sons. It's only marginally connected to Middle-earth, if at all, but it's a very sweet story nonetheless... a little dog's adventures, which take him (among others) to the moon and to the merking's realms - worth a read. :) There is an illustrated version, though I'm not sure if those are Tolkien's own drawings. They might be. Tales of the Perilous Realm is a collection of several shorter songs and poems: Farmer Giles of Ham, Leaf by Niggle, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, and Smith of Wootton Major (Farmer Giles battles a Dragon, and Smith of Wootton Major finds a way to Faery - both are really lovely, I don't know the others). No idea if there are any illustrated editions for TotPR, but I know for a fact that numerous illustrations for Leaf by Niggle exist. Hope that helps! - Elleth ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-2040048912-1205167192=:70878 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks so much! That is a different cover than the one I was going to bid on so I better research it further.

LadyElleth@aol.com wrote:
>Does anyone have a copy of this? I'm trying to buy one and the last one I bought online said it was >illustrated but it just had the maps and the cover was illustrated. I'm trying to make sure I'm getting the right >one. Can someone tell me what the cover looks like and what year it was published. The one I found on >Ebay has the red cover of Maglor throwing the Silmaril. Is this the one that has the illustrations inside by >Ted Nasmith. Also - has anyone heard of the Tales of Perilous Realm and Roverandum? I just found those >online too - both are Tolkein books part of the "Black Edition" (along with UT and the Silm)
 
I'm not sure which copy you're referring to, but a few years ago I bought this (couldn't find it on amazon.com, so a link to amazon.de will have to do - http://www.amazon.de/Silmarillion-J-R-Tolkien/dp/0007173024/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books-intl-de&qid=1205164911&sr=1-3 ). Hardcover, illustrations by Nasmith (the first sunrise, the Teleri crossing the sea, Taniquetil, Alqualonde, Losgar, Helcaraxe, Beren and L�thien,several for the T�rin arc, Maglor throwing the Silmaril, and at least one [the one on the cover] for N�menor - there may be more, I'm just recounting from memory as I don't have the book here right now). Published in 2004. It's well worth the money, though. I think the one with Maglor on the cover also has those illustrations, but I'm not sure.
 
Roverandom is a children's story Tolkien wrote for one of his sons. It's only marginally connected to Middle-earth, if at all, but it's a very sweet story nonetheless... a little dog's adventures, which take him (among others) to the moon and to the merking's realms - worth a read. :) There is an illustrated version, though I'm not sure if those are Tolkien's own drawings. They might be.
Tales of the Perilous Realm is a collection of several shorter songs and poems: Farmer Giles of Ham, Leaf by Niggle, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, and Smith of Wootton Major (Farmer Giles battles a Dragon, and Smith of Wootton Major finds a way to Faery - both are really lovely, I don't know the others). No idea if there are any illustrated editions for TotPR, but I know for a fact that numerous illustrations for Leaf by Niggle exist.
 
Hope that helps!
 
- Elleth



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-2040048912-1205167192=:70878-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1513 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22101 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 16:44:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 16:44:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.179) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 16:44:19 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m34so932961ele.9 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:44:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.89.1 with SMTP id m1mr3804686wab.77.1205167458262; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:44:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:44:18 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <729182.70878.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20112_9873289.1205167458257" References: <729182.70878.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-n7u9uy5KMdDYUy26ENAaZ-ZUW5xJADJEaYye_slZTRGv-fpI0Ck X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_20112_9873289.1205167458257-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1514 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48176 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 16:48:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 16:48:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 16:48:03 -0000 X-Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c22.2fac3702 (65098) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:47:42 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205167662" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5018 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=gVFeSDNU29WRAURw0zlH0tjikXdZ_uDc5NKLyzBJyHBQiCQpmw X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth -------------------------------1205167662 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >It's not the Silmarillion that I use for my research; it was a gift from a friend, so aside from admiring the >pictures, I don't use it much. :D Same here. I barely touched mine ever since I bought it. It's my sssspecial preciousss, definitely a no-no for research (or even just reading!). - Elleth -------------------------------1205167662 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
>It's not the = Silmarillion that I use for my research; it was a gift from a fri= end, so aside from admiring the >pictures, I don't use it much.
<= DIV> 
:D Same here. I barely touched mine ever since I boug= ht it. It's my sssspecial preciousss, definitely a no-no for research (or = even just reading!).
 
- Elleth
= -------------------------------1205167662-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1515 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70801 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 16:52:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 16:52:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.79) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 16:52:45 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 37465 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 16:52:41 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: AFg30tQVM1kK.j_m9E1R.EviqJT7ZENd1xm2U8c2dMKRE_167nVC6rESRC8K9PHKpzp_W1Thx7GaH9Qz_Fn4Xw4H4JvdCvA_1TbrXSl5Sr0rbizsA0c8ajjZKdDn3nji.T6kEIc3gU_.mkhUyEZDk.8T2eql9qRf1iZbVBnfC8AUbXEO.ML645CVBgY- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:52:40 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:52:40 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <706832.27423.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <33222.36643.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=_wtBuBpSBxyAxkmkcCHpYA9teFkPS7fjz9IbsELTqzwQbKijkAnuvPEC7y2s X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess Oh, dear. Then writing for audience, I suppose all my battle-weary elves should smell like flowers. Now *that* would be disconcerting for the zatted-to-Midd-earth Mary Sue. Hmm. Bunnies again. viv --- Alassante7 wrote: > We had this debate one time on OSA I think. There > are those that are VERY against the theory that > elves can sweat and get quite offended if they see > it in a fiction. Personally - mine sweat just cause > the thought of a sweaty elf is hot. http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1516 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51540 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 16:59:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 16:59:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.185) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 16:59:09 -0000 X-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k4so1066356nfd.34 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:59:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.78.177.3 with SMTP id z3mr14490657hue.29.1205168347916; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 23sm10945077hud.3.2008.03.10.09.59.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D568FD.6040105@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:59:41 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=gK-aG7TrIF9UM2IIG2Mi07Q8oKeFd-OtRo2x_-Ww8M2sGuzuNLYCcyo X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Dawn Felagund wrote: > On 3/10/08, rhapsody_the_bard wrote: >> Well yes, as much as I love the idea, scanning them & making them >> available for a group of this size is still a huge violation of >> copyright... > > I'm not sure that it is. :) > > Access to the group is password-locked, so our files are not publicly > available. My understanding has always been that sharing copyrighted > information behind password to a limited group of people where I control the > membership is acceptable, much like inviting all of you over to my house to > read the books in my private library. > > Secondly, I am 99% sure that VT does not profit from the journals that they > "sell." The journals are sold for printing costs only (hence, the costs are > so low). This is because they are reprinting material that is owned by the > Tolkien estate; they are simply making publicly available notes and > information more accessible. > > I have not researched this yet, and I will do so before I put our group (and > myself) at risk for copyright violation. I just don't want to dismiss it > immediately as impossible because of copyright violation when I'm pretty > sure the law is on our side here. Well, I don't think so, but we'll save that debate for another time. I am quite certain that having things password protected or having special actions for registration in place will not protect you from the DMCA and copyright legislation. Otherwise they won't be able to shut down torrent sites or peer-to-peer services of which some do come with registration and password protection. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1517 Return-Path: X-Sender: anarchy@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89048 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 17:11:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 17:11:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n47d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.173) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 17:11:22 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n47.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 17:11:22 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 17:11:22 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 17:11:22 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:11:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Klose" Subject: Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=294946863; y=K4_9iJLySsRj4sagKqGipAMRDGOXbLKuPzijue8ryb2nT7nJEg X-Yahoo-Profile: klose_enuf Anyone have access to any massive legal depo libraries? They might have cop= ies... --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" = wrote: > > Hmmm ... > > That actually is not unreasonab= le. Does anyone have any information on > how to order them? I could ask f= or them for our birthday in July! ;^D > > Dawn > > --- In SilmarillionWri= tersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 > wrote: > > > > They = are only $3/year for the new/upcoming releases but the older > ones would = be less than $100 to get them all. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1518 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94573 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 17:47:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 17:47:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.182) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 17:47:19 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n30so1094456elf.7 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:47:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.49.16 with SMTP id b16mr3621741wak.65.1205171237089; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:47:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:47:16 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <33222.36643.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20636_23019097.1205171237011" References: <706832.27423.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <33222.36643.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:1 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Afr7uZdd9PZkuI6bWTo0QY7gOap4tTakC2iHWMJM5ce8w2duOtWV X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_20636_23019097.1205171237011-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1519 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15258 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 17:59:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 17:59:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n31a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.208) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 17:59:07 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n31.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 17:59:07 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 17:59:07 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 17:59:07 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:59:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=dj8pQaeBoNf9hQXP-HG-XJ6tOcv6LhHt4ZZRMgHXDJdYbgA8wz0sXkmX X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 Must. Resist. Nerdsome. Treatise. Oh, no, succumbing...succumbing...cannot= help myself! Elves don't sweat? *Snort* What are they then? Reptiles? = I completely agree with Viv that this is a detail that JRRT didn't expound= upon, but in the event anyone needs any "defense" for your sweaty elves, l= et's check out what JRRT wrote to Peter Hastings in Letter 153 in The Lette= rs of JRR Tolkien, (ed. H. Carpenter): "Elves and Men are evidently in bio= logical terms one race, or they could not breed and produce fertile offspri= ng - even as a rare event..." and "Elves and Men are represented as biolo= gically akin in this 'history', because Elves are certain aspects of Men an= d their talents and desires, incarnated in my little world." So, based on = the above as well as plenty of other writings throughout his works, Elves a= nd Men are first and foremost warm-blooded placental mammals. All warm blo= oded mammals *must* dissipate body heat. Humans dissipate body heat by *sw= eating.* JRRT explicitly writes Elves and Men are biologically akin, i.e. = hairless hominids, so logically, Elves will have sweat glands. As for bo= dy odor? Even accounting for internal immune systems of the Eldar which a= re apparently powerful enough to stave off infectious disease and a "magica= l" biology that allows for lack of chronic disease and indefinite longevity= ("immortality"), it boggles the mind that skin flora (bacteria) *wouldn't*= set up shop on Elvish skin. And then there are pheromones... :^D OK, th= at's so much nerdsome speculation, but Elves not sweating is right up there= with the hootworthy fandom premise that Elves have pink blood. --- I= n SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > I'm in trouble too, Viv! In my novel AMC, the reek of my swe= aty Elves is > made explicit. > > If Elves don't sweat, I wonder how they = cool themselves. Maybe they pant > like dogs or smear themselves with mud l= ike pigs? I think I like them sweaty > better! :^D > > Dawn > > > On 3/1= 0/08, Viv wrote: > > > > Oh, dear. Then writing = for audience, I suppose all my > > battle-weary elves should smell like flo= wers. Now > > *that* would be disconcerting for the > > zatted-to-Midd-eart= h Mary Sue. Hmm. Bunnies again. > > > > viv > > > > --- Alassante7 > wrote: > > > > > We had this debate one t= ime on OSA I think. There > > > are those that are VERY against the theory = that > > > elves can sweat and get quite offended if they see > > > it in a= fiction. Personally - mine sweat just cause > > > the thought of a sweaty = elf is hot. > > > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama > > > > > = > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1520 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3976 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 18:05:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 18:05:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.176) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 18:05:53 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j4so2951308wah.1 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:05:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.159.1 with SMTP id h1mr3660475wae.147.1205172353595; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:05:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:05:53 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20807_12750706.1205172353592" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=U7DezHqX7xmH90QYgkZ8FRyBgr1Ows6tEoRL6wUbF-X_pD124Qau X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_20807_12750706.1205172353592-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1521 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23683 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 18:09:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 18:09:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.84) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 18:09:55 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 70253 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 18:09:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ZkYIAvkVM1luey4jXGq5IjI1.wK6RpoePkWuvrvEhMR0elt_dHugOAu.y9ca9mVznAgob86_N_0B7amFWfpna09bplYljNiwpp4c2cRyTNNdXpfleRVaKnQyUjut1Bfy3XVC9QsjX5R0226AHGtKMJ8YMvGb_F8- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:09:55 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:09:55 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <216300.70081.qm@web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=XYPQiHQzO6DOCgbOKLVwG_8NPzzYz_PE31FouXahylYA00pgkjAjn4f3cifC X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess Oh to be a bacterium on the skin of Elu... (is reminiscent of Donne's flea). Thank you for this, pandemonium. Am saving it as a reference just in case someone someday tells me I oopsed in writing sweaty dirty delicious elves. :) viv --- pandemonium_213 wrote: > "Elves and Men are evidently in biological terms one > race, or they > could not breed and produce fertile offspring - even > as a rare event..." > > and > > "Elves and Men are represented as biologically akin > in this 'history', > because Elves are certain aspects of Men and their > talents and http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1522 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98515 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 18:11:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 18:11:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 18:11:29 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 42031 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2008 18:11:29 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: d4t_D7AVM1mhQqGEsBeyv4JOWO2uI2txNGb7Fzb.nmfG6uFZ9gS9U0xWAvlT_npEMJIYREqTiGLqK2l9lwfnxFvexnSIJp8Gc5qnp05Xl2uldt0jcQ-- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:11:28 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:11:28 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1814224182-1205172688=:39839" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <32943.39839.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=q9KTAMe2LtWaLohmIQFhVioG4dKKOWMTIG4Xd6UrQKjwWl_v3g X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1814224182-1205172688=:39839 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No one ever said their sweat SMELLED. And besides - Sweat is an aphrodisiac http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/02/10/state/n140520S56.DTL Study: Men's perspiration boosts sexual arousal in women (02-10) 14:05 PST Berkeley, Calif. (AP) -- A chemical in male sweat can boost mood, brain activity and sexual arousal in heterosexual women, according to a new study released just in time for Valentine's Day. The study offers the first direct evidence that humans secrete a scent that can affect the physiology of the opposite sex, said researchers at the University of California, Berkeley. Their findings were published this week in The Journal of Neuroscience. They also discovered that blood pressure, heart rate and breathing increased, mood improved and sexual arousal was boosted. While the compound can make women feel more positive and sexually aroused, it's still unclear how it affects their behavior, Wyart said. Therefore - it stands to reason (in my mind at least) that my male elves DO sweat but they don't smell badly, they just stir sexual arousal. Dawn Felagund wrote: pandemonium_213 wrote: > Must. Resist. Nerdsome. Treatise. Lol! I for one am glad that you did not resist! :^D I was having the same thoughts about Elves and Men being the same species but couldn't remember what causes body odor. Thank you, you've saved me some research ... and having a hootworthy Google search query. ;) I'm glad that I can keep my smelly Feanorians! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-1814224182-1205172688=:39839 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
No one ever said their sweat SMELLED. And besides - Sweat is an aphrodisiac
 
 

Study: Men's perspiration boosts sexual arousal in women

(02-10) 14:05 PST Berkeley, Calif. (AP) --
A chemical in male sweat can boost mood, brain activity and sexual arousal in heterosexual women, according to a new study released just in time for Valentine's Day.
The study offers the first direct evidence that humans secrete a scent that can affect the physiology of the opposite sex, said researchers at the University of California, Berkeley. Their findings were published this week in The Journal of Neuroscience.

 
They also discovered that blood pressure, heart rate and breathing increased, mood improved and sexual arousal was boosted.
 
While the compound can make women feel more positive and sexually aroused, it's still unclear how it affects their behavior, Wyart said.
 
 
 
Therefore - it stands to reason (in my mind at least) that my male elves DO sweat but they don't smell badly, they just stir sexual arousal. 
Dawn Felagund wrote:
pandemonium_213 wrote:
> Must. Resist. Nerdsome. Treatise.
 
Lol! I for one am glad that you did not resist! :^D
 
I was having the same thoughts about Elves and Men being the same species but couldn't remember what causes body odor. Thank you, you've saved me some research ... and having a hootworthy Google search query. ;)
 
I'm glad that I can keep my smelly Feanorians!
 
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-1814224182-1205172688=:39839-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1523 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13115 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 18:56:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 18:56:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n7.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.134) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 18:56:13 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n7.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 18:56:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 18:56:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 18:56:13 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:56:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Question about AU on the Archive (was Re: Defining AU) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=L_6MnxRyGBhWQ46boZ855zWY98uUq9i0CfJrQLs1pFb_MAQ3AvcV X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wr= ote: > 'AU' as a genre gets my vote. Although 'Heresy' (as proposed by > P= andemonium) is a much more evocative word :P > > Newbie wading in regardle= ss... Hi, Moreth! Thank you for your input! And do keep wading in. Eventu= ally, you won't be able to call yourself a newbie anymore. ;) Well, every= one seems to favor listing AU as a genre rather than a warning, so I think= it's a fair change to make. I'll try to get to it tonight. All stories cu= rrently with the warning "AU" will have the genre "AU" added. The warning = will be deleted. As always, authors will be able to edit this, and I will = also post a note on the site so that everyone is on the same page. Dawn F= elagund From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1524 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75758 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 18:56:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 18:56:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.191) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 18:56:35 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 18:56:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 18:56:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 18:56:35 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:56:35 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <216300.70081.qm@web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=IOX76KC0CYepFW7qUYsQXbbvExpCHQuRMlB8f2pSbGe432UaI7alHNj0 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Viv wrote: > (is > reminiscent of Donne's flea). > :^D I love this pla= ce! Where else would one find Elvish sweat and Donne's flea bandied about = in the same thread? That letter to Hastings is chock full of goodies. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1525 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82777 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 19:58:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 19:58:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 19:58:40 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87088580C8 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:58:38 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:58:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:58:21 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <169143719.20080310205821@tlen.pl> To: Viv In-Reply-To: <49975.86461.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <1753353342.20080309173432@tlen.pl> <49975.86461.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=lqv9hMGRQATEJI2U6kz70SQA9MOeQrd3NIcC96-cPkGkmj7XNYo X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Viv, V> Elves sweat?! LOL And they pee and do other nasty stuff, how disappointing ;D V> Sorry, I know that sounded like a weak attempt at a V> joke, but I've often wondered. Sure, armor-plated V> Numenoreans must've smelled just nasty, but I've V> always imagined elves had a natural deoderant thing V> going on. I don't suppose that was the sort of detail V> JRRT thought necessary to discuss. ;) I expect their bodies were less - how do you say it in English? "smelly", than human, out of better balance inside their bodies, natural immunity to illness and ageing in human way, which are often causes of bad smell. But of course bad diet, lack of water to wash up and tough condition will make them smell as naughty as N�menoreans. I wouldn't expect Noldor during the 3rd day of the Vth Battle, soon Nirnaeth to be to smell with roses ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1526 Return-Path: X-Sender: anarchy@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21116 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 20:43:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 20:43:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.141) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 20:43:15 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n14.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 20:43:15 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 20:43:15 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 20:43:14 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:43:13 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Klose" Subject: Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=294946863; y=IYp8C4_F8WqrIukgi-Y0IeAEm0_e08Ompe8JpAe7hC-AO_OjIg X-Yahoo-Profile: klose_enuf I've always imagined elves as being tall and slender, and this would mean t= hey have a greater surface area to dissipate heat through skin. :) (Right,= I didn't actually think about this - I'm doing a paper wherein one of the = points discusses longer lower limb length in modern humans as being a clima= tic adaptation... it's contentious, but a possibility. (/life science stude= nt ramble)) This makes me wonder though, at what point do Elves stop being= Elves and beautiful humans? --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup= s.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > I'm in trouble too, Vi= v! In my novel AMC, the reek of my sweaty Elves is > made explicit. > > If= Elves don't sweat, I wonder how they cool themselves. Maybe they pant > li= ke dogs or smear themselves with mud like pigs? I think I like them sweaty = > better! :^D > > Dawn > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1527 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31141 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 20:50:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 20:50:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 20:50:24 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A1958038 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:50:23 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:50:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:50:23 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1077758625.20080310215023@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <706832.27423.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <49975.86461.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <706832.27423.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ya56nprwwUosJmtED3d_9ALPFaT5pksby8qrN67RFd4xQoi5I0Q X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, A> We had this debate one time on OSA I think. There are those A> that are VERY against the theory that elves can sweat and get quite A> offended if they see it in a fiction. Wow. OK, this is fantasy, they drink, eat, but no nasty effects (except sweating in frivolous moments for those who prefer it). I had angelic-aline like vision of Quendi in the past, mainly after LotR only and before I started to wonder who they are at all. I was looking for evidence to prove they are not human. Haven't found it, really. They are not the same, but I am 100% sure that they are very human in basic physiology, just don't smell like ill/unhealthy/wrong metabolism/ageing etc. humans do. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1528 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4598 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 21:14:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 21:14:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 21:14:02 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64ABB58035 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:13:58 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:13:57 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:13:58 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1311094697.20080310221358@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <378885.22984.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <963111.91583.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] VT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=iwavanT-4WA2-d75FXVGD3I9caO_r1gbi_-vQIyRNe58Kcwku48 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, why don't you change the subject of the message, folks? ;) Scanning is cool as long as VT creators do not have anything against it. It's non commercial project - it should be - and we should pay for materials only, so I would expect they should have nothing against it. But. I know that Aiglos team wouldn't like it as they disagree to post old issues in PDF on-line (as for example Simbelmyne does). Sharing scans of VT in a closed group is OK with fair use, I guess and we serve definition of a closed group as the archive is still private, right? Just don't be too enthusiastic about it. Given it's 3$ for issue I am still after getting a copy but shipping will get much more expensive for me than the magazine itself. It would be cool if they sold/shared PDFs on-line, it would make no problem for anyone to get it. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1529 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55440 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 21:20:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 21:20:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 21:20:09 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A368358066 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:20:08 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:20:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:20:10 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <3437599.20080310222010@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=O0M63_-No8xILhhDNIlx5JavyXTVz4dJ70CjSj9iRfyEpjjKHn4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, r> Well yes, as much as I love the idea, scanning them & making them r> available for a group of this size is still a huge violation of r> copyright... Ah yes, then we're too big. Asking them for PDF on-line would be an option then. If I can pay for mp3, I can pay for VT PDF, too. Just if a group asked it would have more strength than one person. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1530 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86834 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 21:21:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 21:21:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 21:21:50 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 21:21:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 21:21:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 21:21:50 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:21:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=z0XE86p_p8xkxFGwi6P-I7HajltAkR0Gn_-BhCkqz8dQxIE X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 > > Anyone have access to any massive legal depo libraries? They might > ha= ve copies... > Yes. But... - they will not allow this volume of scanning= /copying! They have draconian rules on any copying of material :( (Trust m= e, I've tried to go ~1% over the rules and no deal!) [Radical thought] If= it's genuinely produced at cost, one could try the legit route of... um, = asking to repro? Argh - /finds herself unwilling to condone copying of ot= hers' work without paying (I can have long angsty moments about YouTube li= nks to Mozart!). Whether it 'wants to be free' or not, if someone worked t= o do it, they deserve (financial) support... steal my life's work and I'd = see you in hell! IP, copyright and the internet - a discussion for a rai= ny day ;) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1531 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83412 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 21:39:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 21:39:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 21:39:05 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E42F13E80CD for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:39:04 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:39:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:39:05 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1510104677.20080310223905@tlen.pl> To: moreth00 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: VT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=7MZ4GjQKmAtmFZ2BxkDJlTbLzvu84dGnpxwHXTha3SrU2M1iTH0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai moreth00, m> [Radical thought] If it's genuinely produced at cost, one could try the m> legit route of... um, asking to repro? Just like I thought - asking for sharable PDF for a group interested into digging the footnotes? Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1532 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7777 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 21:47:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 21:47:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.122) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 21:47:57 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 21:47:57 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 21:47:57 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 21:47:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:47:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1510104677.20080310223905@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: VT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=Arvaf3p-coEljO9N8-AsZuwzAziJZ3JQRXqLR4NuCn2SP7Q X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 > Ai moreth00, > Just like I thought - asking for sharable PDF for a group = interested > into digging the footnotes? > Suilad, > Sirielle = Maybe they will take pity on some poor addicted people like = themselves ;D (Oh - the 00 on Moreth... that's just Yahoo being dumb. 00 = is easier to remember then 58736545 or whatever the default was!) Moreth = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1533 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15174 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 21:50:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 21:50:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 21:50:52 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA53F58017 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:50:51 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:50:50 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:50:51 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <153286477.20080310225051@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <111811.44017.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <111811.44017.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=8iW5wgHKqvBX3428argNUN1BHtpURM4-dOAj8UIQSLgsKk432pI X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, Here you are, compare the ISBN or what is it named and the content before you buy it somewhere else - details are given: hard cover + Ted Nasmith: http://www.amazon.com/Silmarillion-J-R-R-Tolkien/dp/0618391118/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205185715&sr=1-15 The one with Maglor on the cover comes from 1998 - my HC issue bought in London. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1534 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12982 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 21:53:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 21:53:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 21:53:13 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C105804A for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:53:12 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:53:11 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:53:13 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1329072380.20080310225313@tlen.pl> To: moreth00 In-Reply-To: References: <1510104677.20080310223905@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: VT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=jilHrGEtbuVVCi5ndALbT8MII7UNqTN3t6f9sdn7pan6zEhSzps X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Moreth, They do not take pity, I'm afraid ;) But asking will not hurt. Also dwonloadable PDF for those who will get smashed by the shipping cost ;) m> (Oh - the 00 on Moreth... that's just Yahoo being dumb. 00 is easier to m> remember then 58736545 or whatever the default was!) I'm sorry, I usually correct names my e-mail client makes automatically. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1535 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89915 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 21:59:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 21:59:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 21:59:32 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDBD33E805A for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:59:21 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:59:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:59:22 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <13345684.20080310225922@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <706832.27423.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <33222.36643.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=7UwAtfnFXbx58GR06yfosxCOLDZv86OeTxIRErZsRau-CrGQQ4U X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> Oh, dear. Then writing for audience, I suppose all my DF> battle-weary elves should smell like flowers. Now DF> *that* would be disconcerting for the DF> zatted-to-Midd-earth Mary Sue. Hmm. Bunnies again. And one more person don't getting the concept of fantasy. They simply don't because they don't. You see they crossed Helcarax� and didn't froze to death, so they will not sweat, either, simple. Ahh, seriously it is silly idea for me, but if elves are to be idea human, then if for someone an ideal human doesn't sweat then they don't. Like they don't have body hair etc. On the other hand there are cultures where you cant sweat in public or you're loosing your face (Japan as I was told). And races which sweat less. But whatever cultural rules and racial conditions are every human body does sweat, I see no other option for Quendi. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1536 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60085 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 22:04:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 22:04:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 22:04:33 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E33C748070 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:04:32 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:04:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:04:32 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <4810067635.20080310230432@tlen.pl> To: pandemonium_213 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=FjuL0Rx6Ao6JEjKTE_sDdrBmKlWZsRe1mGa3glDXPC_odT9x6vw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai pandemonium_213, p> OK, that's so much nerdsome speculation, but Elves not sweating is p> right up there with the hootworthy fandom premise that Elves have pink p> blood. I need to get letters one day (haven't red it). Thanks for the scientific explanation! I'm saving it. So no alien elves, pity pity ;) (I'm thinking about alien eyes right now, not sweat). The last one is a joke or really someone invented pink blood? (maybe the answer comes in the next messages) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1537 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24851 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 22:06:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 22:06:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 22:06:02 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E5574808D for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:05:52 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:05:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:05:52 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1133477131.20080310230552@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=-1bnUVsXiFmoiUvRSHmj4_LQqcF98JrUiQiIr5YoYva1qow2-gc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> I'm glad that I can keep my smelly Feanorians! Now that remark about pheromones hit me... Ouch. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1538 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77061 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 22:10:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 22:10:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 22:10:45 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46385803B for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:10:44 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:10:43 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:10:45 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <294247655.20080310231045@tlen.pl> To: Klose In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6YXQgd2hhdCBwb2ludCBkbyBFbHZlcyBzdG9wIGJlaW5nIEVsdmVz?= =?ISO-8859-1?B?DQpLPiAgYXQgd2hhdCBwb2ludCBkbyBFbHZlcyBzdG9wIGJlaW5nIEVs?= =?ISO-8859-1?B?dmVzIGFuZCBiZWF1dGlmdWwgaHVtYW5zPw==?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=5_e2oDiyjiqlWr-b5ejf7lRwqvfUSSpk67uldxurTtV15S7XEbU X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Klose, K> This makes me wonder though, at what point do Elves stop being Elves K> and beautiful humans? I would be glad to know the answer. We all imagine them so differently and most of us still see them as not humans, but what is the real difference? Is it really visible? (Forgetting the light of Aman factor of Aman Refugees.) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1539 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83350 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 22:27:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 22:27:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.181) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 22:27:12 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id r23so2588258elf.19 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:27:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.65.54.9 with SMTP id g9mr3432562qbk.30.1205188030306; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 20sm9535734uga.20.2008.03.10.15.27.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D5B60F.9030905@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:28:31 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=J14THA5fMUPRZV0npE61ICULvvCbA3OpRQAmcAYhdULm91Iqh7i5Clg X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard moreth00 wrote: >> Anyone have access to any massive legal depo libraries? They might >> have copies... >> > > Yes. But... - they will not allow this volume of scanning/copying! They > have draconian rules on any copying of material :( (Trust me, I've > tried to go ~1% over the rules and no deal!) I worked in this environment for years and there are many things a normal customer of a library never gets to hear (yes we are hiding something ;P). There are a lot of matters that come into play. For example when you go to a library and make a copy of an article, you pay a fee for copyright by actually copying it. The money you pay for it partly goes to copyright institutions who at their turn make sure the author's get their share (just as these days a part of the price of dvd's/cd's are going to copyright institutions). When we got a reader from a group (non profit research institution) we manually calculated how much was used from an article, how many images and reported it to the copyright organisations to prevent lawsuits. Let alone that libraries pay enormous fees these days for subscription (for paper or e-versions), whether or not they acquire it by inter library loan, but they are never allowed to pass an article onto more than one person. Those are the very strict rules. > [Radical thought] If it's genuinely produced at cost, one could try the > legit route of... um, asking to repro? > > Argh - /finds herself unwilling to condone copying of others' work > without paying (I can have long angsty moments about YouTube links to > Mozart!). Whether it 'wants to be free' or not, if someone worked to do > it, they deserve (financial) support... steal my life's work and I'd > see you in hell! Yeps, I fully agree with this. $3 doesn't sound much and its an extra cost for me that I don't have. So despite that I really really would love to have it, the fact that we keep over 90 potiental customers (current member base is 95) away from VT who could also use the extra funding and clients as well.. it simply doesn't sit well with me. And we're not that private and closed. You can simply sign up here at the group, get to the files, get the VT, log off and be on your merry way. Word spreads fast too, so yeah. We'd probably have to think of something else to really keep it private. > IP, copyright and the internet - a discussion for a rainy day ;) Hmmm, I know. I often had to explain to docs or nurses why they could not pass on an (e-)article amongst colleagues because we had to abide by the contract with the publisher. Or Subito cutting us suddenly off because the inter library loans we requested from them could by copyright law only be distributed to German users (long live the EU, right), so yeah... Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1540 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46565 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:06:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:06:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n53d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.79) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:06:01 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n53.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 23:06:00 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 23:06:00 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 23:06:00 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:05:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47D5B60F.9030905@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=Xs1iVmz74CqkXDpNsR4s2pVDQLh5q4Oe4UeqUKJqd1izWdA X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 > Those are the very strict rules. I have no idea about general library ru= les (although I'm sure they are tough!) but this one being a genuine copyr= ight library (i.e. has everything ever published in the UK + most stuff in= EU / USA) I totally understand their rigour on the matter. I can go in th= ere and *read* anything (kk - apparently some slightly weird rules apply t= o explicit pornography - I've never actually tried to call any up :P I me= an /blush!), but taking material out of the library? - no damn way! Ever! = No! > Word spreads fast too, so yeah. We'd probably have to think of some= thing else to really keep it private. Yeah - it looks too much like public= access via a random hotmail account :P Who knows... if it is essentially = 'free-to-air' maybe they are amenable to some deal. "Let us put your text = in some 'members only' area and we'll link your site as a supporting group= ..." ;) Damn it - I've been doing way too many Non-Disclosure Agreements a= t work! /Calls F=EBanor over - 'Hey - You need to go research way to stop = copper oxidising!' From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1541 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78385 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:11:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:11:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:11:49 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C3158022 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:11:48 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:11:48 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:11:50 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1264323383.20080311001150@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <32943.39839.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <32943.39839.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=-O9YP5O6SPJLKmVu6F6Vxoh8pUvLQf60X8Nb29Fqi6udGAwHkoA X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, A> No one ever said their sweat SMELLED. Just like not every human smells, apart from moments being ill. In fact we're killing our own smell - not stinking smell but real smell every body has got - with all the chemistry we use to prevent it from stinking. A better diet, health and clean environment would do better miracles, but who can suddenly move to a clean environment and have got time for a really healthy diet? And so on so on... As someone said in a discussion about camping in the forest - city stinks and so we do by living there. Elves. Apart the dark city of Angband no really stinking industrial cities were invented. The further from Melkor's factories the cleaner land. Yet elves would stink if they stayed dirty too long there is no other way ;) A> And besides - Sweat is an aphrodisiac Mentioned before pheromones. Women smell them in men's sweat and unconsciously judge by it if the man of our dreams does match our immune system or not and the more chances for reaching up our kid's immunity the less the guy stinks ;) So if a man's sweat (clean, of course we're not talking about 'pathology') repulses a woman it should be bad a signal. At least one experiment says that. Maybe it's the same one mentioned in your article. According to that one we're choosing a father for our kids by our nose. That's why sometimes perfectly good looking, fascinating guy doesn't move us. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1542 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89376 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:21:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:21:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n3.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.130) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:21:48 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.90] by n3.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 23:21:48 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 23:21:48 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 23:21:47 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:21:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <294247655.20080310231045@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re:at what point do Elves stop being ElvesK> at what point do Elves stop being Elves and beautiful humans? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=lTK7_OiLdj0RzWcU85aYqcvWked04VWgjCS1f4e8N6s62WE X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 > K> This makes me wonder though, at what point do Elves stop being Elves= > K> and beautiful humans? > > I would be glad to know the answer. We al= l imagine them so > differently and most of us still see them as not humans= , but what is > the real difference? Is it really visible? (Forgetting the = light of > Aman factor of Aman Refugees.) > ... and that is what I like a= bout all you guys :) If my elves sweat, pee... (and anything else) you may= not *prefer* that, but you won't freak out! If my elves don't sweat, are = zen masters and very focussed on inner understanding - that's cool too :D = I don't think this a point on which consensus will (or needs) to be reach= ed ;) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1543 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83819 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:37:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:37:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:37:16 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c77.22da7a27 (33856) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:37:10 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205192230" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=tn1-F5SZlhqDMv_LhQyVkWRx2mudSwsC_bzze8neySuXckJDbebs X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205192230 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 10:43:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: Personally - mine sweat just cause the thought of a sweaty elf is hot. Apologies for hopping into this discussion without having read all the threads. My elves sweat because they are human (human with some extra genes that give them semi-immortal life spans along with other cool characteristics). I think most people who get all bent out of shape over the human aspects of elves are usually LOTR writers. I have found lots of dirty, sweating elves in Silmarillion fics. Oshun **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205192230 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 10:43:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com = writes:
Personally - mine sweat just ca= use the thought of a sweaty elf is hot.
=
Apologies for hopping into this discussion without having read = all the threads. My elves sweat because they are human (human with so= me extra genes that give them semi-immortal life spans along with other co= ol characteristics). I think most people who get all bent out of shape ove= r the human aspects of elves are usually LOTR writers. I have found lots o= f dirty, sweating elves in Silmarillion fics.
 
Oshun



It's Tax Time! Get ti= ps, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
= -------------------------------1205192230-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1544 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86020 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:41:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:41:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.244) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:41:30 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 23:41:30 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 23:41:30 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:41:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1264323383.20080311001150@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=3B2LRuaHUsF6Na5J9OqKNnZE-R3SCY7bD4i39j_9vDhl830 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 wrote: > A better diet, health and clean environment would d= o better > miracles, but who can suddenly move to a clean environment and h= ave > got time for a really healthy diet? And so on so on... As someone >= said in a discussion about camping in the forest - city stinks and > so w= e do by living there. Elves. Apart the dark city of Angband no > really st= inking industrial cities were invented. The further from > Melkor's facto= ries the cleaner land. Yet elves would stink if they > stayed dirty too lo= ng there is no other way ;) > Heh - remind me to have a looooong discussi= on on what happens in the desert/jungle (with no shower or running water).= Stink? Just doesn't really happen so badly... not like it does after (say= ) eight hours sat in a meeting room (yurrrgh)! Ok... so after three weeks,= I probably DO need a wash before being allowed into polite company (Mayb= e!) :P Don't even start me on pheromones... hell, you don't have to regis= ter as smelling to be waving that banner! Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1545 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2973 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:43:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:43:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:43:21 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c20.2fde41a9 (33856) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:43:07 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205192587" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=i-0vzvV2OX-S7bS5Pr4FIGp1LHgIB_iUF41dIlix2xtqihOYUnai X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205192587 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 11:37:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: Access to the group is password-locked, so our files are not publicly available. My understanding has always been that sharing copyrighted information behind password to a limited group of people where I control the membership is acceptable, much like inviting all of you over to my house to read the books in my private library. That is also my understanding (based on over 20 years of work in law related to intellectual property fields). I think the discussion is best not done in a large group, but a smaller one than the entire membership. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205192587 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 11:37:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.co= m writes:
Access to the group is p= assword-locked, so our files are not publicly available. My understandin= g has always been that sharing copyrighted information behind password t= o a limited group of people where I control the membership is acceptable= , much like inviting all of you over to my house to read the books in my= private library.
 
=
That is also my understanding (based on over 20 years of work i= n law related to intellectual property fields). I think the discussion is = best not done in a large group, but a smaller one than the entire members= hip.



-------------------------------1205192587-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1546 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69119 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:44:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:44:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:44:43 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66FF53E8079 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:44:42 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:44:41 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:44:42 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <252886913.20080311004442@tlen.pl> To: moreth00 In-Reply-To: References: <294247655.20080310231045@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=CNYkV-RGX6aFWjUTdxbIFFSyF8lh1-mhanaCPtUGQI7t04ghSQc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Moreth, >> I would be glad to know the answer. We all imagine them so >> differently and most of us still see them as not humans, but what is >> the real difference? Is it really visible? (Forgetting the light of >> Aman factor of Aman Refugees.) >> m> ... and that is what I like about all you guys :) If my elves sweat, m> pee... (and anything else) you may not *prefer* that, but you won't m> freak out! If my elves don't sweat, are zen masters and very focussed m> on inner understanding - that's cool too :D Ahhh, I think you understand my post in some different, but very nice way. I was really asking what do you think is the difference, though yes - I'll accept your elves being different from mine :) Probably ;) Ok, I'll do XD Coming back to the question - is there really anything we might point what makes that difference? What makes them different from beautiful humans? Books mention eyes, height, beauty. Everyone sees beauty differently, so hard to say anything. But I liked one description from a fan fic by Kasiopea where young Haleth sees Noldor for the first time. From remembrance - she suddenly finds herself clumsy and ugly compared with them, while they seem to be such beautiful that it's painful too look at them (and imagine her own lack of beauty in comparison). I would need to look up that line, there was more about the Eldar, I really liked that. Her Eldar are more than beauty, but that painful reception with realization how imperfect the beholder is got stuck in my head. [Let's leave the question of pointy ears aside, open, it should not matter. If one needs pointy ears to be an elf, then they are just a human with pointy ears, nothing more.] Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1547 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6275 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:50:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:50:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:50:33 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 339EC3E8053 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:50:32 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:50:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:50:32 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <947192243.20080311005032@tlen.pl> To: moreth00 In-Reply-To: References: <294247655.20080310231045@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: zen elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=D98HHwMcXB-1oyUMwye9pZyIZpKYtSOSbjM4drd4UdeoHSvEFKY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Moreth, m> If my elves don't sweat, are zen masters and very focussed m> on inner understanding - that's cool too :D I forgot to add - you are just stealing my Vanyar, you know? They are all about meditation, contemplation and such, not really into trivial Noldorin joys. I would label it AU if I ever created anything on them, all depends how advanced that creation would be. Although we know nothing on Vanyar, it would kill most of JRRT fandom, I know for sure. In fact all they've got in common with JRRT is look and abiding on the feet of Manw�, so I'm taking them out of Arda and keep on my own. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1548 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92938 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:51:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:51:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n12b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.110) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:51:42 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 23:51:39 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 23:51:39 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2008 23:51:39 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:51:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=cPrhNG_nYW9mFNL3r9b4US-x_jfqR3ZRb4DUf3o-YJfLA7w X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 > That is also my understanding (based on over 20 years of work in law re= lated > to intellectual property fields). I think the discussion is best n= ot done in > a large group, but a smaller one than the entire membershi= p. w00t! - passes the entire problem to an expert team that doesn't inclu= de me :D Sorry for the silly, but hey... here is a thing I genuinely don'= t need to worry about! [Oh dear god, that felt soooooooo good to say!] /= joking (but only a little!) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1549 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3661 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:55:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:55:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:55:05 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4F413E8078 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:55:04 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:55:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:55:04 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1048405876.20080311005504@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=S5mp2QDcoaQWBWNPApu6CF5x5esGBZMB20v9z9x_bZ2-YCCYS-0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> I think most people who get all bent out of shape over the human aspects of hac> elves are usually LOTR writers. I have found lots of dirty, hac> sweating elves in Silmarillion fics. And that would fit with a totally different impression LotR eves do make compared to the Silmarillion ones. Are the LotR elves real creatures from flash and bones? They weren't to me, they were mythical, magical beings. While Silmarillion elves are 'earthy', just real. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1550 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46503 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:55:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:55:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:55:22 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c0a.2ee996cf (33856) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:55:08 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205193308" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anym... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=GwB4yHhI4rThDDNFa1SLCLr_3WklU6KPILe5C2XshhB4i8Xv7NyD X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205193308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 12:59:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: JRRT didn't expound upon, but in the event anyone needs any "defense" for your sweaty elves, let's check out what JRRT wrote to Peter Hastings in Letter 153 in The Letters of JRR Tolkien, (ed. H. Carpenter): "Elves and Men are evidently in biological terms one race, or they could not breed and produce fertile offspring - even as a rare event..." Thanks, Panedmonium, I'm definitely keeping this cite handy, because I do see this discussion come up several times a year, but as I noted in an earlier email comment, rarely in Silmarillion circles, but more often in LOTR-writers discussions. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205193308 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 12:59:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com= writes:
sweaty elves, let= 's check out what JRRT wrote to Peter Hastings in
Letter 153 in The L= etters of JRR Tolkien, (ed. H. Carpenter):

"Elves and Men are evi= dently in biological terms one race, or they
could not breed and prod= uce fertile offspring - even as a rare event..."
=
Thanks, Panedmonium, I'm definitely keeping this ci= te handy, because I do see this discussion come up several times a year, b= ut as I noted in an earlier email comment, rarely in Silmarillion circles,= but more often in LOTR-writers discussions.



-------------------------------1205193308-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1551 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93369 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2008 23:58:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2008 23:58:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2008 23:58:29 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c9e.2573a3f3 (33856) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:58:21 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205193501" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anym... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Jzhxfg0va3W9ZvkRP-O0K4rRz9A_NwaTeXbddYG-M_bKnsaq3E5i X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205193501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 1:11:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: They also discovered that blood pressure, heart rate and breathing increased, mood improved and sexual arousal was boosted. I adored this one. I had a discussion with my daughter once, when she told me in all seriousness that her husband's sweat definitely does not stink, but smells nice, as did that of her ex-boyfriend of many years. I got a good laugh out of that one. She didn't see the humor. Pleasant for her, is not necessarily pleasant for the rest of us. I, however, am quite sure I would have liked the way Fingon smelled. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205193501 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 1:11:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com w= rites:
They also discovered that b= lood pressure, heart rate and breathing increased, mood improved and sex= ual arousal was boosted.
 
I adored this one. I had a discussion with my daughter o= nce, when she told me in all seriousness that her husband's sweat definite= ly does not stink, but smells nice, as did that of her ex-boyfriend of man= y years. I got a good laugh out of that one. She didn't see the humor. Ple= asant for her, is not necessarily pleasant for the rest of us. I, however,= am quite sure I would have liked the way Fingon smelled.

=

-------------------------------1205193501-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1552 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60406 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 00:00:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 00:00:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 00:00:51 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51ECB5800C for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:00:50 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:00:49 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:00:50 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1811185184.20080311010050@tlen.pl> To: moreth00 In-Reply-To: References: <1264323383.20080311001150@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=MSLsRqOv5fhzUHF7E-wjmH3yZ4hl5ApQmnDkvi2jUTDfNtVq108 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Moreth, m> Heh - remind me to have a looooong discussion on what happens in the m> desert/jungle (with no shower or running water). Stink? Just doesn't m> really happen so badly... not like it does after (say) eight hours m> sat in a meeting room (yurrrgh)! Just as that person in a discussion about camping in the forest said. m> Don't even start me on pheromones... hell, you don't have to register m> as smelling to be waving that banner! Of course you don't. But if we didn't sweat at all their emission would be harder. What I said was that smell of the other person, washed and clean will still be not to your likening if they are not for you. They do not need stink for that. If that's the bit you refer to. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1553 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4922 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 00:02:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 00:02:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 00:02:12 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cde.26064bee (33856) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:02:08 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205193728" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=GvHNrpwSAZXAlZL37fquem3FDhs_OIA0liewQR0hgLSiMVvWu-0i X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205193728 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 3:50:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: just don't smell like ill/unhealthy/just don't smell like ill/unhealthy/ = =
In a message date= d 3/10/2008 3:50:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes:
just don't smell like ill/unhealthy/w= rong metabolism/ageing etc. humans do.
I do agr= ee with you on this one, Sirielle. But contact with nasty, dirty things--u= nchanged clothes and sweating in old leather boots or shoes, for exam= ple--would surely make them smell bad, just like the rest of us.
 



<= /BODY> -------------------------------1205193728-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1554 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72337 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 00:12:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 00:12:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 00:12:38 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D22258013 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:12:37 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:12:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:12:38 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1398870098.20080311011238@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[6]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: not "Defining AU (was..." anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=pGcZzniRxnSu23EEU74vUrr5B7vj8bCjXS_ruJ9Z3I2CVt_-Xw0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> just don't smell like ill/unhealthy/wrong hac> metabolism/ageing etc. humans do. hac> I do agree with you on this one, Sirielle. But contact with hac> nasty, dirty things--unchanged clothes and�sweating in old hac> leather boots or shoes, for example--would surely make them hac> smell bad, just like the rest of us. Yup, I added it in the end or in the other message. The difference is how many times/how badly one person has to sweat in the same clothes to start stinking. There are people who stink immediately and there are people who don't wearing the same for a next day (add the jungle example). Elves would join the second group. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1555 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35299 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 00:29:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 00:29:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.180) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 00:29:11 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so2108354waf.20 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:29:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.151.13 with SMTP id y13mr4009685wad.148.1205195351220; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:29:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:29:10 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_60_26695901.1205195351214" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=3hrwYamRUizq1Q_qS5W_DK2z_rnSsEO5Chu2m45OGjV0g9rcxAy0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_60_26695901.1205195351214-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1556 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20909 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 00:32:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 00:32:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.181) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 00:32:36 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j32so2050268waf.19 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:32:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.160.1 with SMTP id i1mr4259937wae.49.1205195555836; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:32:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:32:35 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_73_18397792.1205195555824" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anym... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=TtPKJ4Y2kkuL0UozUPDBt3b_ZUkh5KJaAeJTilavgp2M6xeycPQe X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_73_18397792.1205195555824-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1557 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34539 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 00:34:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 00:34:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.124) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 00:34:06 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 33979 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 00:34:02 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _FI2Fp8VM1kjyYdA5Dzoio60xP7KrmsIg4xjEi9OXTZX1dJ0tB_nNeNb17LtWz4Z6qBbbX4f7sKEj1SV8J5HxZvEn6OJNffGO._A X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:34:02 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:34:02 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <252886913.20080311004442@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-326559523-1205195642=:32437" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <704664.32437.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=n9UThyqYk8YFPnoBS7fEN2N8Pa6u-SmSARwerFL5DFgE_Y6TjUOtycM X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-326559523-1205195642=:32437 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > What makes them different from beautiful humans? In my opinion there are two answers to this question. It may be one, the other, or both. 1) Immortality. My spur-of-the-moment theory is that Elves must have some way to preserve their DNA that Men do not. Perhaps super long poly-adenine tails or, in my opinion more "likely", complete DNA replication at chromosome ends.* At any rate, I would say that immortality is a major differentiating factor between Elves and Men. *Disclaimer - we really don't know enough about DNA telomeres (ends) and aging to say for certain whether longer telomeres cause an organism to live longer. However, there does appear to be a positive correlation between telomere length and length of living. Unless research has come out that I haven't seen stating something very different - always possible. If so, ignore my genetic blathering. ;) 2) Spiritual. Obviously there is no scientific explanation here. It could be that there is no difference between an "ugly" Elf and an exceptionally beautiful human. Eru might have composed Elves and Men a one species and basically told the Valar "Elves' spirits stay with you. Men's spirits keep going beyond the circles of the world." Anyways, those are my two guesses. Tarion (*hoping she didn't put her foot in her mouth with the science stuff* ;D) --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-326559523-1205195642=:32437 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > What makes them different from beautiful humans?

In my opinion there are two answers to this question. It may be one, the other, or both.

1) Immortality. My spur-of-the-moment theory is that Elves must have some way to preserve their DNA that Men do not. Perhaps super long poly-adenine tails or, in my opinion more "likely", complete DNA replication at chromosome ends.* At any rate, I would say that immortality is a major differentiating factor between Elves and Men.

*Disclaimer - we really don't know enough about DNA telomeres (ends) and aging to say for certain whether longer telomeres cause an organism to live longer. However, there does appear to be a positive correlation between telomere length and length of living. Unless research has come out that I haven't seen stating something very different - always possible. If so, ignore my genetic blathering. ;)

2) Spiritual. Obviously there is no scientific explanation here. It could be that there is no difference between an "ugly" Elf and an exceptionally beautiful human. Eru might have composed Elves and Men a one species and basically told the Valar "Elves' spirits stay with you. Men's spirits keep going beyond the circles of the world."

Anyways, those are my two guesses.

Tarion
(*hoping she didn't put her foot in her mouth with the science stuff* ;D)

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-326559523-1205195642=:32437-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1558 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82635 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 00:34:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 00:34:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 00:34:57 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bc3.24a36444 (33856) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:34:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:34:51 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205195691" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anym... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Vr1F8ODOkVRCUGrWqZ-idV1UedpX3QhGd5kOnk0NcoOzDsISmnIx X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205195691 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 7:33:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: Also, glad to see you back. ;) Oh, thanks. Glad to be back. It drove me crazy to see all these discussions and not able to participate. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205195691 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 7:33:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms= and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
-------------------------------1205195691-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1559 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83046 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 01:33:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 01:33:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 01:33:36 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 75609 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 01:33:36 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 3a4GunsVM1nA7PXKnP2wirbKayvmzDZHnaNNt1PvuNZUJ1TAKf5yHLzFu1VnuXoYD8sQR6Tv1GD9.WMgYVRmBcX69QyXeZyxVJXhWKU8hrglihsTiNw- X-Received: from [98.16.33.231] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:33:35 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:33:35 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <704664.32437.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-833008064-1205199215=:75227" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <970825.75227.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=8OR_5-Ugrkw1H9NAGQuIvU8lcHpXAh2wknAUCeWYHqOhz1rg0g X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-833008064-1205199215=:75227 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You forgot built in birth control =0) But on the downside of that - a year long pregnancy. Tarion Anarore wrote: > What makes them different from beautiful humans? In my opinion there are two answers to this question. It may be one, the other, or both. 1) Immortality. My spur-of-the-moment theory is that Elves must have some way to preserve their DNA that Men do not. Perhaps super long poly-adenine tails or, in my opinion more "likely", complete DNA replication at chromosome ends.* At any rate, I would say that immortality is a major differentiating factor between Elves and Men. *Disclaimer - we really don't know enough about DNA telomeres (ends) and aging to say for certain whether longer telomeres cause an organism to live longer. However, there does appear to be a positive correlation between telomere length and length of living. Unless research has come out that I haven't seen stating something very different - always possible. If so, ignore my genetic blathering. ;) 2) Spiritual. Obviously there is no scientific explanation here. It could be that there is no difference between an "ugly" Elf and an exceptionally beautiful human. Eru might have composed Elves and Men a one species and basically told the Valar "Elves' spirits stay with you. Men's spirits keep going beyond the circles of the world." Anyways, those are my two guesses. Tarion (*hoping she didn't put her foot in her mouth with the science stuff* ;D) --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-833008064-1205199215=:75227 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You forgot built in birth control =0) But on the downside of that - a year long pregnancy.

Tarion Anarore wrote:
> What makes them different from beautiful humans?

In my opinion there are two answers to this question. It may be one, the other, or both.

1) Immortality. My spur-of-the-moment theory is that Elves must have some way to preserve their DNA that Men do not. Perhaps super long poly-adenine tails or, in my opinion more "likely", complete DNA replication at chromosome ends.* At any rate, I would say that immortality is a major differentiating factor between Elves and Men.

*Disclaimer - we really don't know enough about DNA telomeres (ends) and aging to say for certain whether longer telomeres cause an organism to live longer. However, there does appear to be a positive correlation between telomere length and length of living. Unless research has come out that I haven't seen stating something very different - always possible. If so, ignore my genetic blathering. ;)

2) Spiritual. Obviously there is no scientific explanation here. It could be that there is no difference between an "ugly" Elf and an exceptionally beautiful human. Eru might have composed Elves and Men a one species and basically told the Valar "Elves' spirits stay with you. Men's spirits keep going beyond the circles of the world."

Anyways, those are my two guesses.

Tarion
(*hoping she didn't put her foot in her mouth with the science stuff* ;D)
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-833008064-1205199215=:75227-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1560 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6628 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 01:37:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 01:37:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.113) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 01:37:31 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 90121 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 01:37:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dUBVsM4VM1lyBCp2P8d0yc15qDeC.0LDwO6OuzZ3UQIhDaZ5P2ELAlaijxfgqjbQjZ5K4IZMaMZosqQ7aixFgEW9vpZ.WaawdN7uD2HCvNh3eVlL9yJvNxBXniS7yg-- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:37:31 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:37:31 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <970825.75227.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1859097438-1205199451=:88430" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <165168.88430.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=JZ4dzbgeockt9TMlFso3stAQBI-VXh7dKKTlLXF_yaOitIHTygI7pjs X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1859097438-1205199451=:88430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Haha, I wish *I* had built-in birth control. Then again what happens if in a drunken haze you decide "Yeah! Let's have a baby!" Or maybe that IS how Nerdanel ended up having seven sons...;D Alassante7 wrote: You forgot built in birth control =0) But on the downside of that - a year long pregnancy. ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1859097438-1205199451=:88430 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Haha, I wish *I* had built-in birth control. Then again what happens if in a drunken haze you decide "Yeah! Let's have a baby!"

Or maybe that IS how Nerdanel ended up having seven sons...;D

Alassante7 wrote:
You forgot built in birth control =0) But on the downside of that - a year long pregnancy.



~T�rion

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1859097438-1205199451=:88430-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1561 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67307 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 01:38:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 01:38:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 01:38:53 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cf2.2a467ce8 (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:39:07 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205199547" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ooYSVhRmdmHzy7qXIc_PmEGofofw1TdzAeSn6EzR8MZn4klAxFum X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205199547 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 8:37:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com writes: Haha, I wish *I* had built-in birth control. Then again what happens if in a drunken haze you decide "Yeah! Let's have a baby!" Very funny! Or maybe that IS how Nerdanel ended up having seven sons...;D I suspect she was a sucker for Feanor when he was in the mood. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205199547 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 3/10/2008 8:37:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com wri= tes:
Haha, I wish *I* had built-in birt= h control. Then again what happens if in a drunken haze you decide "Yeah= ! Let's have a baby!"
Very funny!

Or maybe that IS how Nerdanel ended up having = seven sons...;D
I suspect she was a sucker for Fea= nor when he was in the mood.

 
 



<= FONT style=3D"color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;">
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & = Finance.
-------------------------------1205199547-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1562 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58025 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 01:39:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 01:39:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.96) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 01:39:12 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 26852 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 01:39:05 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 0U9kjt0VM1nj6FMcqeN4KgrQ9ODyjSDKts13lxwrtB_osoepUXo6V3t6aZzIz_imDg-- X-Received: from [98.16.33.231] by web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:39:05 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:39:05 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <165168.88430.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1726179443-1205199545=:25102" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <920571.25102.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=uaCn4SGjPr_0Ned4cTKrhSQdCtIwvpos7LlBUxKFM6nFQywyyA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1726179443-1205199545=:25102 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit she probably had to stay drunk in a house full of Feanorians. lol I think Feanor just wanted to make sure he had more kids than anyone else. He's a tad bit competitive me thinks. Tarion Anarore wrote: Haha, I wish *I* had built-in birth control. Then again what happens if in a drunken haze you decide "Yeah! Let's have a baby!" Or maybe that IS how Nerdanel ended up having seven sons...;D Alassante7 wrote: You forgot built in birth control =0) But on the downside of that - a year long pregnancy. ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1726179443-1205199545=:25102 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit she probably had to stay drunk in a house full of Feanorians. lol I think Feanor just wanted to make sure he had more kids than anyone else. He's a tad bit competitive me thinks.

Tarion Anarore wrote:
Haha, I wish *I* had built-in birth control. Then again what happens if in a drunken haze you decide "Yeah! Let's have a baby!"

Or maybe that IS how Nerdanel ended up having seven sons...;D

Alassante7 com> wrote:
You forgot built in birth control =0) But on the downside of that - a year long pregnancy.



~T�rion
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1726179443-1205199545=:25102-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1563 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31470 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 01:41:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 01:41:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 01:41:10 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c3a.2e744ff2 (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:41:20 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205199680" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=99bZoi6edzHuazb7z9Cz9jpX3iD2YdhRJc_oxR72GuiANXj_F1yK X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205199680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 8:39:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: she probably had to stay drunk in a house full of Feanorians. lol I think Feanor just wanted to make sure he had more kids than anyone else. He's a tad bit competitive me thinks. I am sure I wouldn't have to be drunk with him. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205199680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 8:39:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com w= rites:
she probably had to stay drunk i= n a house full of Feanorians. lol I think Feanor just wanted to make sur= e he had more kids than anyone else. He's a tad bit competitive me think= s.
I am sure I wouldn't have to = be drunk with him.



-------------------------------1205199680-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1564 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6481 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 01:48:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 01:48:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.120) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 01:48:50 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 88770 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 01:48:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ZGwOSSoVM1kRzL6QVI30IKSoG5HLvo5ZN_9PW615vQ7X2wAKVC711hy8tDqNvA2lyyAiLml8LWl9yOJxC6v5vkVuXCH6rqGkgKGXKcsQEdw0y6LuKiY- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:48:49 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:48:49 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-444105719-1205200129=:88505" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <12043.88505.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=1OKHNLgUTCpyOgFRaJz8aYtgg6z1iU7Dcd1y4z82KjiVDRiUyOVsXMI X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-444105719-1205200129=:88505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I suspect she was a sucker for Feanor when he was in the mood. Hehe, most likely. Feanor: Do you want to...try for a baby. *wink* Nerdanel: Yes! Sheesh, did you think I was wearing this skanky silk negligee because I wanted you to think about politics?! 1 year later...[insert son of Feanor here] is born! ;D ~T�rion --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-444105719-1205200129=:88505 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I suspect she was a sucker for Feanor when he was in the mood.

Hehe, most likely.

Feanor: Do you want to...try for a baby. *wink*
Nerdanel: Yes! Sheesh, did you think I was wearing this skanky silk negligee because I wanted you to think about politics?!

1 year later...[insert son of Feanor here] is born!


;D


~T�rion

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-444105719-1205200129=:88505-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1565 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66961 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 01:51:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 01:51:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 01:51:13 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d6a.1fad6be8 (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:51:21 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205200281" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=tpncuq7fY0rlkYsr-BfVcw4BSP24Ir3MxoOUtFtA0_HrlZYLuSij X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205200281 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 8:49:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com writes: Nerdanel: Yes! Sheesh, did you think I was wearing this skanky silk negligee because I wanted you to think about politics?! 1 year later...[insert son of Feanor here] is born! I come back from being out-of-town and there goes the level of the discussion right down the drain! I wonder if there is a correlation? Hmmm? Could be? **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205200281 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 8:49:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.c= om writes:
Nerdanel: Yes! Sheesh, did you= think I was wearing this skanky silk negligee because I wanted you to t= hink about politics?!

1 year later...[insert son of Feanor here]= is born!

I come back f= rom being out-of-town and there goes the level of the discussion right dow= n the drain! I wonder if there is a correlation? Hmmm? Could be?



-------------------------------1205200281-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1566 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57438 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 01:56:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 01:56:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 01:56:38 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9401748068 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:56:37 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:56:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:52:18 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <694893843.20080311025218@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <970825.75227.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <704664.32437.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <970825.75227.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=hAiKnNXglnicVpfZEirV3vtC0Qr83JZHUBQV5qPhdYa988t5nQM X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, A> You forgot built in birth control =0) But on the downside of that - a year long pregnancy. Fanon or canon? Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1567 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60279 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 01:56:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 01:56:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.113) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 01:56:59 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 2348 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 01:56:59 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: rWKIhM8VM1kjjTkYJ13n1YLvasiuu9ifrD8Jga6LHJmkpndblYk8Ld7tLDghZVu_db9w6eat0zUw61oTiWA1W58UewyxpyNyvwiafCszipWAg2uzprc- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:56:58 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:56:58 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1128323233-1205200618=:1871" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <992154.1871.qm@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=de_45Wri5Gs7gyWfDJqOrT8Tu0FOuHLls5-1H8QkJiHmM32DnODFZf4 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1128323233-1205200618=:1871 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nah...It's just that I'm silly and after a day of classes, there's only so much more intellectual discussion my brain will allow. ;D (Ironically, what was said earlier by you and Sirielle about your mate's sweat smelling good was one of the topics discussed in my capstone seminar this afternoon!) heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: I come back from being out-of-town and there goes the level of the discussion right down the drain! I wonder if there is a correlation? Hmmm? Could be? ~T�rion --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1128323233-1205200618=:1871 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nah...It's just that I'm silly and after a day of classes, there's only so much more intellectual discussion my brain will allow. ;D

(Ironically, what was said earlier by you and Sirielle about your mate's sweat smelling good was one of the topics discussed in my capstone seminar this afternoon!)

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
I come back from being out-of-town and there goes the level of the discussion right down the drain! I wonder if there is a correlation? Hmmm? Could be?



~T�rion

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1128323233-1205200618=:1871-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1568 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90020 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:00:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:00:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.125) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:00:31 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 730 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 02:00:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: YZGOAYIVM1loLeqU_jGycuhLSFMnvRNBj3a5h4r92yiSRyFm5wvCqNSWiY9EY9WSKYM.GDKY_WqwzLNdO5Mk3la73rl8G5V7WzSB X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:00:25 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:00:25 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <920571.25102.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2146768577-1205200825=:98704" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <608084.98704.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=TNs6ozYbhPUNWsEDgIexR8R5C3ZLWF9p7_YgnhijHOld4dqoGDutx_s X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-2146768577-1205200825=:98704 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hehe! Probably. Feanor: Ha! I've got more kids than you, Fingolfin! Fingolfin: But I've got a daughter. Feanor: You do? Oh, Aredhel. I just thought she was a wimpy-looking son. Like Turgon. Yeah, I'm silly tonight...(I blame getting up at 5 AM! Which to my internal clock still equals 4 AM. Thank you daylight savings.) Alassante7 wrote: she probably had to stay drunk in a house full of Feanorians. lol I think Feanor just wanted to make sure he had more kids than anyone else. He's a tad bit competitive me thinks. Tarion Anarore wrote: Haha, I wish *I* had built-in birth control. Then again what happens if in a drunken haze you decide "Yeah! Let's have a baby!" Or maybe that IS how Nerdanel ended up having seven sons...;D ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-2146768577-1205200825=:98704 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hehe! Probably.

Feanor: Ha! I've got more kids than you, Fingolfin!
Fingolfin: But I've got a daughter.
Feanor: You do? Oh, Aredhel. I just thought she was a wimpy-looking son. Like Turgon.

Yeah, I'm silly tonight...(I blame getting up at 5 AM! Which to my internal clock still equals 4 AM. Thank you daylight savings.)

Alassante7 wrote:
she probably had to stay drunk in a house full of Feanorians. lol I think Feanor just wanted to make sure he had more kids than anyone else. He's a tad bit competitive me thinks.

Tarion Anarore yahoo.com> wrote:
Haha, I wish *I* had built-in birth control. Then again what happens if in a drunken haze you decide "Yeah! Let's have a baby!"

Or maybe that IS how Nerdanel ended up having seven sons...;D



~T�rion

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-2146768577-1205200825=:98704-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1569 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18523 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:01:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:01:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:01:32 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c12.2db8ff54 (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:01:24 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205200884" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=RcOtwatkVqTnSzM4P6EmeRwq53Uvim0QN0nVcOWMlA4EuSJmQ78O X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205200884 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 8:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: Fanon or canon? I think it is fanon, but I have no proof one way or the other. Maybe someone else will give some. I used the supposed fanon in a couple of stories (not very serious stories, however). **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205200884 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 8:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl write= s:
Fanon or canon?
I think it is fanon, but I have no proof one way= or the other. Maybe someone else will give some. I used the supposed fano= n in a couple of stories (not very serious stories, however).
=


-------------------------------1205200884-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1570 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12142 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:02:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:02:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:02:54 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cfc.2c825758 (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:02:37 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205200957" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=MJKPKUlRxa6ijFp4hoSZygmA-bO_iBoolyWB_axJROaD9pOAUDB8 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205200957 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 9:00:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com writes: Feanor: You do? Oh, Aredhel. I just thought she was a wimpy-looking son. Like Turgon. Shame on you. I think Aredhel is cuter. Yeah, I'm silly tonight...(I blame getting up at 5 AM! Which to my internal clock still equals 4 AM. Thank you daylight savings.) It's killing me too and I can't figure out why my computer didn't update the time automatically. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205200957 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 3/10/2008 9:00:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com wri= tes:
Feanor: You do? Oh, Aredhel. I jus= t thought she was a wimpy-looking son. Like Turgon.
=
Shame on you. I think Aredhel is cuter.
Yeah, I'm silly tonight...(I blame getting up at 5 AM! Which to my = internal clock still equals 4 AM. Thank you daylight savings.)
It's killing me too and I can't figure out why my computer = didn't update the time automatically.
=
 
 


=
-------------------------------1205200957-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1571 Return-Path: X-Sender: deand12000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45775 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:04:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:04:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56012.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (216.252.110.191) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:04:06 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 41036 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 02:04:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: cHzl1_EVM1ksM1rG6eUSnYUv306fZq9ogFo884LvJocKorqrY8kXarV1ZiRQC7wM.torrfjgYEA_HoNNEiaCLxYOSFpXdY6AkKyY1sTXlGj.Z1Ccs85.RJeqanw1q.livD2nVQ15tcnbOdFtPashOuG7oYDpd25c54fnwTZ09msew.SeDO_ZvJiQlYE- X-Received: from [98.73.30.43] by web56012.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:04:04 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/902.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.162 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:04:04 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-136455099-1205201044=:40261" Message-ID: <387117.40261.qm@web56012.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Dean Rowley Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=114134930; y=REcdu4Yc4OV3M7v6FqK1o8uK-H52IQyt1Ny_V6LZ9GfETYfC_w X-Yahoo-Profile: deand12000 --0-136455099-1205201044=:40261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Will not resist Nerdsome response. A fannon I once read was that the Elven glow was due to dissipation of body heat, fireflies anyone? And a variation of the old saying: Horses sweat, Men perspire, Elves glow. Call me Ranger1 ----- Original Message ---- From: pandemonium_213 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 1:59:07 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] Must. Resist. Nerdsome. Treatise. Oh, no, succumbing.. .succumbing. ..cannot help myself! Elves don't sweat? *Snort* What are they then? Reptiles? I completely agree with Viv that this is a detail that JRRT didn't expound upon, but in the event anyone needs any "defense" for your sweaty elves, let's check out what JRRT wrote to Peter Hastings in Letter 153 in The Letters of JRR Tolkien, (ed. H. Carpenter): "Elves and Men are evidently in biological terms one race, or they could not breed and produce fertile offspring - even as a rare event..." and "Elves and Men are represented as biologically akin in this 'history', because Elves are certain aspects of Men and their talents and desires, incarnated in my little world." So, based on the above as well as plenty of other writings throughout his works, Elves and Men are first and foremost warm-blooded placental mammals. All warm blooded mammals *must* dissipate body heat. Humans dissipate body heat by *sweating.* JRRT explicitly writes Elves and Men are biologically akin, i.e. hairless hominids, so logically, Elves will have sweat glands. As for body odor? Even accounting for internal immune systems of the Eldar which are apparently powerful enough to stave off infectious disease and a "magical" biology that allows for lack of chronic disease and indefinite longevity ("immortality" ), it boggles the mind that skin flora (bacteria) *wouldn't* set up shop on Elvish skin. And then there are pheromones.. . :^D OK, that's so much nerdsome speculation, but Elves not sweating is right up there with the hootworthy fandom premise that Elves have pink blood. --- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > I'm in trouble too, Viv! In my novel AMC, the reek of my sweaty Elves is > made explicit. > > If Elves don't sweat, I wonder how they cool themselves. Maybe they pant > like dogs or smear themselves with mud like pigs? I think I like them sweaty > better! :^D > > Dawn > > > On 3/10/08, Viv wrote: > > > > Oh, dear. Then writing for audience, I suppose all my > > battle-weary elves should smell like flowers. Now > > *that* would be disconcerting for the > > zatted-to-Midd- earth Mary Sue. Hmm. Bunnies again. > > > > viv > > > > --- Alassante7 > wrote: > > > > > We had this debate one time on OSA I think. There > > > are those that are VERY against the theory that > > > elves can sweat and get quite offended if they see > > > it in a fiction. Personally - mine sweat just cause > > > the thought of a sweaty elf is hot. > > > > http://www.livejour nal.com/users/ spacellama > > > > > > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --0-136455099-1205201044=:40261 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Will not resist Nerdsome response.

 

A fannon I once read was that the Elven glow was due to dissipation of body heat, fireflies anyone?

 

And a variation of the old saying: Horses sweat, Men perspire, Elves glow.

 

Call me Ranger1



----- Original Message ----
From: pandemonium_213
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 1:59:07 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore]

Must. Resist. Nerdsome. Treatise.

Oh, no, succumbing.. .succumbing. ..cannot help myself!

Elves don't sweat? *Snort* What are they then? Reptiles?

I completely agree with Viv that this is a detail that JRRT didn't
expound upon, but in the event anyone needs any "defense" for your
sweaty elves, let's check out what JRRT wrote to Peter Hastings in
Letter 153 in The Letters of JRR Tolkien, (ed. H. Carpenter):

"Elves and Men are evidently in biological terms one race, or they
could not breed and produce fertile offspring - even as a rare event..."

and

"Elves and Men are represented as biologically akin in this 'history',
because Elves are certain aspects of Men and their talents and
desires, incarnated in my little world."

So, based on the above as well as plenty of other writings throughout
his works, Elves and Men are first and foremost warm-blooded placental
mammals. All warm blooded mammals *must* dissipate body heat. Humans
dissipate body heat by *sweating.* JRRT explicitly writes Elves and
Men are biologically akin, i.e. hairless hominids, so logically, Elves
will have sweat glands.

As for body odor? Even accounting for internal immune systems of the
Eldar which are apparently powerful enough to stave off infectious
disease and a "magical" biology that allows for lack of chronic
disease and indefinite longevity ("immortality" ), it boggles the mind
that skin flora (bacteria) *wouldn't* set up shop on Elvish skin.

And then there are pheromones.. . :^D

OK, that's so much nerdsome speculation, but Elves not sweating is
right up there with the hootworthy fandom premise that Elves have pink
blood.

--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, "Dawn Felagund"
wrote:
>
> I'm in trouble too, Viv! In my novel AMC, the reek of my sweaty Elves is
> made explicit.
>
> If Elves don't sweat, I wonder how they cool themselves. Maybe they pant
> like dogs or smear themselves with mud like pigs? I think I like
them sweaty
> better! :^D
>
> Dawn
>
>
> On 3/10/08, Viv wrote:
> >
> > Oh, dear. Then writing for audience, I suppose all my
> > battle-weary elves should smell like flowers. Now
> > *that* would be disconcerting for the
> > zatted-to-Midd- earth Mary Sue. Hmm. Bunnies again.
> >
> > viv
> >
> > --- Alassante7 40yahoo.com> > wrote:
> >
> > > We had this debate one time on OSA I think. There
> > > are those that are VERY against the theory that
> > > elves can sweat and get quite offended if they see
> > > it in a fiction. Personally - mine sweat just cause
> > > the thought of a sweaty elf is hot.
> >
> > http://www.livejour nal.com/users/ spacellama
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org
>



Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-136455099-1205201044=:40261-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1572 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40232 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:06:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:06:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:06:11 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B98B58005 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:06:10 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:06:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:06:10 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <506969446.20080311030610@tlen.pl> To: Tarion Anarore In-Reply-To: <608084.98704.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <920571.25102.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <608084.98704.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: funnies [was: at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans?] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=EOTctQn6ux-wUT6HBthFJ90pD8zhN65DgMgZpZ00rVlthy3iJhc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Tarion, TA> Feanor: Ha! I've got more kids than you, Fingolfin! TA> Fingolfin: But I've got a daughter. TA> Feanor: You do? Oh, Aredhel. I just thought she was a TA> wimpy-looking son. Like Turgon. LOL :D Aredhel is Fingon in a skirt, which is more terrifying than the valiant kiddo ;) Good night! (3 Am, it's all elve's fault) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1573 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41155 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:06:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:06:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n32a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.211) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:06:18 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n32.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 02:06:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 02:06:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 02:06:18 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:06:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <704664.32437.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=eBdErW5Ao4JnKoPyVclqRTUOR6KHujC9vaRdCys_3UNA5N6PbYkLbrb2 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore wrote: > > > What makes them different from beautiful humans? > = > In my opinion there are two answers to this question. It may be one, the = other, or both. > > 1) Immortality. My spur-of-the-moment theory is that = Elves must have some way to preserve their DNA that Men do not. Perhaps sup= er long poly-adenine tails or, in my opinion more "likely", complete DNA re= plication at chromosome ends.* At any rate, I would say that immortality is= a major differentiating factor between Elves and Men. > > *Disclaimer - = we really don't know enough about DNA telomeres (ends) and aging to say for= certain whether longer telomeres cause an organism to live longer. However= , there does appear to be a positive correlation between telomere length an= d length of living. Unless research has come out that I haven't seen statin= g something very different - always possible. If so, ignore my genetic blat= hering. ;) Yep. Immortality (or more accurately, indefinite longevity), i= n my estimation, is a huge - and I mean HUGE - differentiating factor. I v= iew Elves as fully human but nonetheless, they are The Other because of tha= t immortality. Just do a thought exercise - what would an indefinite lifes= pan with a less-than-vulnerable body to one's psyche? To one's outlook? H= ow easy would it be to mingle with those that may resemble you, but have a = much shorter lifespan? Given human behavior (mortal or otherwise), there w= ould be self-segregation. Heck, just ask us older mortals how we perceive = time. I swear it *flies* by now versus when I was 20 years old. So when I= multiple that exponentially, well, being 2000 years old would be most cert= ainly create a different kind of psychology which would be very distinct fr= om mortal humans. 2) Eru might have composed Elves and Men a one specie= s and basically told the Valar "Elves' spirits stay with you. Men's spirits= keep going beyond the circles of the world." That sounds quite congruent= with JRRT's canonical views. > > Anyways, those are my two guesses. >= > Tarion > (*hoping she didn't put her foot in her mouth with the science= stuff* ;D) Heh. Nope, you did not insert your foot. That was all corre= ct. :^) This is not just a topic for the realm of fantasy but a pretty se= rious ethical discussion in the world of science these days. More and more= is being revealed about the process of aging. Tarion, you mention telomer= es. That's one. There's also a class of proteins called sirtuins which mod= ify chromosomal DNA and have other apparent regulatory functions involved w= ith age. A good friend of mine is the head of chemistry at a biotech devot= ed to unlocking sirtuins' secrets for anti-aging (or at least slowing it do= wn) treatments. Sounds science fictiony, but it is not. Another factor i= nvolved with aging is damage and repair of DNA and proteins. Every day, ev= ery minute, the DNA and proteins in our bodies are damaged by oxidation amo= ng other things. Our bodies contain enzymes that repair the damaged macrom= olecules, but as we age, it's believed that these repair mechanisms get slu= ggish and the gears just don't mesh as well. Hence, we get cancer, heart d= isease (the world's biggest killer) and other mortal afflictions. A very e= fficient protein and DNA repair system would likely allow for beautiful "gl= owing" skin and lovely hair. Sound familiar? :^D Now I don't know about t= he glimmering thing - that sounds magical to me so let's just wave the wiza= rd's wand. Anyway, that's some nerdsome additions to your telomere hypothe= sis. Again, in that letter to Hastings, Tolkien writes that one would just= need to enter his little world and study its biology (and he even made a c= omment about gerontology in that letter), so I think you and I can justify = our speculations. :^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1574 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35727 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:06:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:06:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:06:39 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c1a.332f1051 (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:06:53 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205201213" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anym... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=af6y9jNJYRnDcqFYK-gmUluzlhwpAg_00DgSwKvw7w6eBxb5zm3Z X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205201213 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 9:04:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, deand12000@yahoo.com writes: And a variation of the old saying: Horses sweat, Men perspire, Elves glow. I actually could hear my grandmother saying the original of that one ("ladies glow") when I used the word "sweat." If ladies glow and do not sweat, then elves would surely glow. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205201213 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 3/10/2008 9:04:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, deand12000@yahoo.com writes:=

And a variation of t= he old saying: Horses sweat, Men perspire, Elves glow.

I actually could hear my grandmother saying the original of tha= t one ("ladies glow") when I used the word "sweat." If ladies glow and do = not sweat, then elves would surely glow.
 


-------------------------------1205201213-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1575 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29640 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:08:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:08:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.125) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:08:50 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 5990 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 02:08:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 60PsissVM1loMg35ydOZM0qJfDLjzQh0_1zWS8Ehu6JjXevK6awxZGRJp1TGYj97Wl2UuGHMDkFc9FzpgDIUod78llVDvGubQaNP.S28MZ4Y_4d0JklqJ2jrzUpKHQ-- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:08:50 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:08:50 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1907750061-1205201330=:5401" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <120388.5401.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Not "at what point do Elves stop being beautiful" anymore X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=xAEAK2GGahIy1whuauEYDoSFwY2ndMy0peK9XNg-EfnXMrCpIXz7i3w X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1907750061-1205201330=:5401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Shame on you. I think Aredhel is cuter. *grin* Possibly. I certainly meant no offense to Aredhel. ;) (Or Turgon, technically...) >It's killing me too and I can't figure out why my computer didn't update the time automatically. At least my computer did that. Otherwise I'd be wondering whether or not I'd changed my clocks... ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1907750061-1205201330=:5401 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Shame on you. I think Aredhel is cuter.

*grin* Possibly. I certainly meant no offense to Aredhel. ;) (Or Turgon, technically...)

>It's killing me too and I can't figure out why my computer didn't update the time automatically.

At least my computer did that. Otherwise I'd be wondering whether or not I'd changed my clocks...


~T�rion

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1907750061-1205201330=:5401-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1576 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85045 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:08:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:08:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:08:53 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DC6758002 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:08:52 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:08:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:08:52 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1972107764.20080311030852@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=CrXGxwPagkQ6GS-gRiYRFEPO61z7JgT4wnG8ZbvpBIeocZ08Qns X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> I think it is fanon, but I have no proof one way or the hac> other. Me neither. I wanted to prove it in one discussion but when I check my evidence it didn't prove nothing. In the end I decided it is fanon, but I am still after better body control for Quendi. OK, now really good night. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1577 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81188 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:10:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:10:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n31c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.8) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:10:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 02:10:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 02:10:24 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:10:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <387117.40261.qm@web56012.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=yp38BZ0M_bRoeMrvUjJDH3Ee9XGjSQPTqcIULVg-LNpEfE4iaDpJ294J X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dean Rowley wrote: > > Will not resist Nerdsome response. > > A fannon I once read= was that the Elven glow was due to dissipation of body heat, fireflies any= one? > > And a variation of the old saying: Horses sweat, Men perspire, E= lves glow. > > Call me Ranger1 > Ha! So something equivalent to green = fluorescent protein is expressed in Homo sapiens eldarensis? Here's a link= on green mice: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/343929.stm From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1578 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15197 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:10:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:10:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:10:51 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 91942 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 02:10:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 285iBSYVM1kDZ6rM4slgD6C7rwvis.OPnrIx3igGZQ3BJwEzrQVcxeq7tFIpXNZVhjKPGbSHi6ABh4h7NrMFvEibFI11jdjmux1eg7RIjIIIQv17eoA47uGxib0cnlKEg_k05zXPXSmwg4U- X-Received: from [98.16.33.231] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:10:50 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:10:50 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-647154361-1205201450=:90368" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <612644.90368.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=tdHlZ62r4D0kIgGGfcCjRiDnEVF5CZGz8VeRjGimbbZDF8wbZA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-647154361-1205201450=:90368 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was told that was canon when I tried to have a surprise pregnancy but I don't have any quotes. heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/10/2008 8:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: Fanon or canon? I think it is fanon, but I have no proof one way or the other. Maybe someone else will give some. I used the supposed fanon in a couple of stories (not very serious stories, however). --------------------------------- It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-647154361-1205201450=:90368 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was told that was canon when I tried to have a surprise pregnancy but I don't have any quotes.

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/10/2008 8:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes:
Fanon or canon?
I think it is fanon, but I have no proof one way or the other. Maybe someone else will give some. I used the supposed fanon in a couple of stories (not very serious stories, however).






~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-647154361-1205201450=:90368-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1579 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98241 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:12:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:12:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.117) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:12:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 81798 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 02:12:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: CKruOQEVM1nxvym2pSHY7HgSlUSqvJa7G5iF2Qx3MKKiHogvIX_.iCTZrgKIUzxyOw-- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:12:37 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:12:37 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <506969446.20080311030610@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1050412022-1205201557=:80978" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <649564.80978.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: funnies [was: at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans?] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=1zr9tcFI9UIz614txlHL8IYpTm6aRRgEuxmrm2Y_-7JnsLvL9w7pdU8 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1050412022-1205201557=:80978 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Aredhel is Fingon in a skirt, which is more terrifying than the valiant kiddo ;) LOL! Indeed more terrifying! I think we know who is top dog in that little family...and it isn't one of the boys...:D >3 Am, it's all elve's fault I'm beginning to think that Elves are nocturnal...;) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1050412022-1205201557=:80978 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Aredhel is Fingon in a skirt, which is more terrifying than the
valiant kiddo ;)

LOL! Indeed more terrifying! I think we know who is top dog in that little family...and it isn't one of the boys...:D

>3 Am, it's all elve's fault

I'm beginning to think that Elves are nocturnal...;)


~T�rion

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1050412022-1205201557=:80978-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1580 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54902 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:17:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:17:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:17:06 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c3d.2ee5d9d8 (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:17:22 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205201842" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: funnies [was: at what point do Elves st... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=YFvr9Nt2hVYe_lo8aiDIewNRnA5mwH0UTe1QOLGbcKl10e8YzGt- X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205201842 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 9:12:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com writes: >Aredhel is Fingon in a skirt, which is more terrifying than the valiant kiddo ;) LOL! Indeed more terrifying! I think we know who is top dog in that little family...and it isn't one of the boys...:D I'll have to think about that. I do like Aredhel's spunk, if not her lack of common sense, but then Fingon even wasn't strong on that. Most of that branch of the family was high on guts and low on common sense. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205201842 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 3/10/2008 9:12:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com wri= tes:
>Aredhel is Fingon in a skirt, = which is more terrifying than the
valiant kiddo ;)

LOL! Indeed= more terrifying! I think we know who is top dog in that little family..= .and it isn't one of the boys...:D
I'll have to t= hink about that. I do like Aredhel's spunk, if not her lack of common sens= e, but then Fingon even wasn't strong on that. Most of that branch of the = family was high on guts and low on common sense.

 
 



-------------------------------1205201842-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1581 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2674 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:18:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:18:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:18:56 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 99383 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 02:18:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: TYfyYy0VM1kT47IlaLNwBGVzJSLl6fZsb9p8ZTjaArcw2IOfX.NCAM5FLU0q9g2Z0A-- X-Received: from [98.16.33.231] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:18:56 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:18:56 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-929730278-1205201936=:94785" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <165145.94785.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: funnies [was: at what point do Elves st... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=ECuQfPqJkM4KnvXNDpjPqIUmB6_DglrD3CAXRS4H16LCjTsCDA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-929730278-1205201936=:94785 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So you're saying going to Morgoth and threatening to kick his ass was a BAD plan? That seems to be a recurring theme in the Silm. heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/10/2008 9:12:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com writes: >Aredhel is Fingon in a skirt, which is more terrifying than the valiant kiddo ;) LOL! Indeed more terrifying! I think we know who is top dog in that little family...and it isn't one of the boys...:D I'll have to think about that. I do like Aredhel's spunk, if not her lack of common sense, but then Fingon even wasn't strong on that. Most of that branch of the family was high on guts and low on common sense. --------------------------------- It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-929730278-1205201936=:94785 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So you're saying going to Morgoth and threatening to kick his ass was a BAD plan? That seems to be a recurring theme in the Silm.

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/10/2008 9:12:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com writes:
>Aredhel is Fingon in a skirt, which is more terrifying than the
valiant kiddo ;)

LOL! Indeed more terrifying! I think we know who is top dog in that little family...and it isn't one of the boys...:D
I'll have to think about that. I do like Aredhel's spunk, if not her lack of common sense, but then Fingon even wasn't strong on that. Most of that branch of the family was high on guts and low on common sense.

 
 






~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-929730278-1205201936=:94785-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1582 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82301 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:21:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:21:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:21:55 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d4c.1593fa5e (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:22:11 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205202131" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=AJZuv1oO00X1M3GN3hQJnQZnpPVm1JUrppc4QepO1qxXwhqS5wX2 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205202131 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 9:15:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: I was told that was canon when I tried to have a surprise pregnancy but I don't have any quotes. I've never seen the quotes although one could possibly infer that from certain statements in Laws and Customs Among the Eldar which imply that elves didn't have children in dangerous times and also tended to stop having children (the implications being voluntarily) at a certain point in their marriage. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205202131 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 9:15:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com w= rites:
I was told that was canon when I= tried to have a surprise pregnancy but I don't have any quotes.
I've never seen the quotes although= one could possibly infer that from certain statements in Laws and Customs= Among the Eldar which imply that elves didn't have children in dangerous = times and also tended to stop having children (the implications being volu= ntarily) at a certain point in their marriage.



It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money = & Finance.
-------------------------------1205202131-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1583 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77948 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:22:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:22:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.118) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:22:45 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 35260 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 02:22:42 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: j4m67LIVM1mS_a87Qun.83f.gx5UO1ltuAYaFHT1Qz7xu5vn6m7MLILeKu6UeeF0O66evorREwIpByWqRSUl2O9SCGw1iVAJA8ZFJbNoPQQzJ2vOfoM- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:22:41 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:22:41 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <165145.94785.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-528731995-1205202161=:35020" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <972791.35020.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: funnies [was: at what point do Elves st... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=S5ezSUuCxe-XrElm3accGBXImbvuva6e4UKb5Fm8WjiJOUsKqxZSuzU X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-528731995-1205202161=:35020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mmm, yeah, Bad Plan. Or at the very least very poor execution. However, A for Effort, Fingolfin. ;) Alassante7 wrote: So you're saying going to Morgoth and threatening to kick his ass was a BAD plan? That seems to be a recurring theme in the Silm. ~T�rion --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-528731995-1205202161=:35020 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mmm, yeah, Bad Plan. Or at the very least very poor execution. However, A for Effort, Fingolfin. ;)

Alassante7 wrote:
So you're saying going to Morgoth and threatening to kick his ass was a BAD plan? That seems to be a recurring theme in the Silm.



~T�rion

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-528731995-1205202161=:35020-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1584 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31750 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:23:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:23:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:23:21 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d5a.21919606 (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:23:26 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205202206" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: funnies [was: at what point do Elves st... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=nv4Doz77Ii__y0fBTjdhQn9-I8fyWCPwfzL_IW7EWZLFX4sNat7A X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205202206 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 9:19:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: So you're saying going to Morgoth and threatening to kick his ass was a BAD plan? That seems to be a recurring theme in the Silm. I know. I know. I'm not just getting my head in the right place. Looking at it from my 21st century POV. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205202206 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 9:19:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com w= rites:
So you're saying going to Morgot= h and threatening to kick his ass was a BAD plan? That seems to be a rec= urring theme in the Silm.

I know. I know. I'm not just getting my head in the right place. Looking= at it from my 21st century POV.



-------------------------------1205202206-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1585 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83311 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:24:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:24:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:24:24 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d55.26a2e8e0 (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:24:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:24:40 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205202280" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: funnies [was: at what point do Elves st... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=3pk9XsgQbzlCidKMagW7Twhmfl6ao9koABoGuZrL5rY0gwIwuU1I X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205202280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 9:23:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.com writes: Mmm, yeah, Bad Plan. Or at the very least very poor execution. However, A for Effort, Fingolfin. ;) Actually redeemed Fingolfin for me and made him look at lot more like it actually was Fingon's father. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205202280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 9:23:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, tarion_anarore@yahoo.c= om writes:
Mmm, yeah, Bad Plan. Or at t= he very least very poor execution. However, A for Effort, Fingolfin. ;)<= /FONT>
Actually redeemed Fingolfin for = me and made him look at lot more like it actually was Fingon's father.


 -------------------------------1205202280-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1586 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25360 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:43:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:43:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n1.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.128) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:43:02 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n1.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 02:43:01 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 02:43:01 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 02:43:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:42:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <153286477.20080310225051@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=eAPnDacEEbOdHQwWQXjkAtkAbyLTs308M2RBlScf4dqkQZacEs0 X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I'm looking forward to the Silmarillion Illustrated Swimsuit Edition myself= . Of course, I'd only buy it for the articles ;-) Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1587 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94146 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:44:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:44:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:44:29 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c66.2bcb4a8c (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:44:45 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205203485" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=glJp0MwzPO3B2sGjy3ca0Ek4hLf3-DxjgTNOl5k9Wxx9MXBxDqB- X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205203485 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 9:43:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, glenceol@bellsouth.net writes: I'm looking forward to the Silmarillion Illustrated Swimsuit Edition myself. Of course, I'd only buy it for the articles ;-) Ellie Good one! I'd buy that one too (only for the articles). **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205203485 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 3/10/2008 9:43:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, glenceol@bellsouth.net write= s:

I'm looking forward to the Silmar= illion Illustrated Swimsuit Edition
myself. Of course, I'd only buy i= t for the articles ;-)

Ellie

Good on= e! I'd buy that one too (only for the articles).


 



-------------------------------1205203485-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1588 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4400 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:44:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:44:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.119) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:44:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 99433 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 02:44:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: yB66mAkVM1m_fG8FXTT6vyiYajAi0QBFk02SrYWYlf6LZM.aygdjZ.6wZ1oHrXnFCD4P.QYDptSslCKpvAEjfpzJKlQ84gHDPque X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:44:37 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:44:37 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1033108463-1205203477=:98686" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <787164.98686.qm@web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=V2y9piCZtzYGxoM3Hx369ORZK0dKXEIlcF_8XRaqs6n8JeE0WvUKc24 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1033108463-1205203477=:98686 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LOL!!!!! I'll definitely pre-order that one! ;) ellfine2000 wrote: I'm looking forward to the Silmarillion Illustrated Swimsuit Edition myself. Of course, I'd only buy it for the articles ;-) Ellie ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1033108463-1205203477=:98686 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LOL!!!!! I'll definitely pre-order that one! ;)

ellfine2000 wrote:
I'm looking forward to the Silmarillion Illustrated Swimsuit Edition
myself. Of course, I'd only buy it for the articles ;-)

Ellie



~T�rion

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1033108463-1205203477=:98686-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1589 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18094 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:45:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:45:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:45:56 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 16116 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 02:45:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _XbUv8YVM1nWrbBlOLbNscnkOwluze_.gY16NhPMZRjw0WZNfa8v8Jud9G7VA_D8QoBZW4FV6TOqYs0OUEqpWFFKlYSPEiZrHKsgxkNnChhpXFwCaOY- X-Received: from [98.16.33.231] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:45:55 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:45:55 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <787164.98686.qm@web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-33679042-1205203555=:15498" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <578686.15498.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=jaHrkslatTdamsT8grrubF8rG8eOzWTQJrYY69BMKTs5bN479w X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-33679042-1205203555=:15498 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Amen! I could have read a little faster if there was a swimsuit edition! Tarion Anarore wrote: LOL!!!!! I'll definitely pre-order that one! ;) ellfine2000 wrote: I'm looking forward to the Silmarillion Illustrated Swimsuit Edition myself. Of course, I'd only buy it for the articles ;-) Ellie ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-33679042-1205203555=:15498 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Amen! I could have read a little faster if there was a swimsuit edition!

Tarion Anarore wrote:
LOL!!!!! I'll definitely pre-order that one! ;)

ellfine2000 net> wrote:
I'm looking forward to the Silmarillion Illustrated Swimsuit Edition
myself. Of course, I'd only buy it for the articles ;-)

Ellie



~T�rion
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-33679042-1205203555=:15498-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1590 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8592 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 02:55:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 02:55:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 02:55:11 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 02:55:11 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 02:55:11 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:55:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anym... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=SRZwvQfPCb49X5orgSi_MZcHmw_oAht8KuX6xiMLSh5P8XfOKGQ_4MCJ X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > In a message dated 3/10/2008 12:59:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, > d= ocbushwell@... writes: > > JRRT didn't > expound upon, but in the event a= nyone needs any "defense" for your > sweaty elves, let's check out what JR= RT wrote to Peter Hastings in > Letter 153 in The Letters of JRR Tolkien, = (ed. H. Carpenter): > > "Elves and Men are evidently in biological terms = one race, or they > could not breed and produce fertile offspring - even a= s a rare event..." > > > > Thanks, Panedmonium, I'm definitely keeping = this cite handy, because I do > see this discussion come up several times= a year, but as I noted in an earlier > email comment, rarely in Silmaril= lion circles, but more often in LOTR-writers > discussions. > Welcome = back! I missed you! Yes, in spite of Tolkien's very words and his given e= vidence that fertile offspring were produced, i.e., Dior, Earendil and Gala= dor - although the latter went to the default setting (mortal) with no choi= ce since his mom (Mithrellas) was not a lofty Elf of vaunted lineage - the = "Elves are not human" notion still persists. But I have already blathere= d about that with so much scientific jargon. I might as well be using the = Black Speech. Ash nazg and all that jazg. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1591 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49263 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 03:00:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 03:00:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 03:00:30 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c25.2f39a846 (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:00:22 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205204422" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anym... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=HDijhvtae4FugDUdtRFVscUQG9q9KtpMcBFp-gKQFFhgnBricFUB X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205204422 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 9:55:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: But I have already blathered about that with so much scientific jargon. I might as well be using the Black Speech. Ash nazg and all that jazg. OMG! Black speech, indeed! I'm keeping the notes anyway. Even if I am too lazy to refer to them most of the time. It's nice to know I have the references if I really need them. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205204422 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 3/10/2008 9:55:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes= :
But I have already blathered about t= hat with so much scientific
jargon. I might as well be using the Blac= k Speech. Ash nazg and all
that jazg.
OMG! Bla= ck speech, indeed! I'm keeping the notes anyway. Even if I am too lazy to = refer to them most of the time. It's nice to know I have the references if= I really need them.



= -------------------------------1205204422-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1592 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4335 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 03:05:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 03:05:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.225) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 03:05:59 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c30so1170952wra.14 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:05:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.150.146.14 with SMTP id t14mr3264587ybd.136.1205204759314; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a42sm1606371rne.15.2008.03.10.20.05.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D5F720.2000400@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:06:08 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <612644.90368.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <612644.90368.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=MloXBSYKOmpZYGogfjZDi899Km9r4GAnMiyT5lraHP7RkcoDQxDrPg X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Alassante7 wrote: > > > I was told that was canon when I tried to have a surprise pregnancy but > I don't have any quotes. > Hey guys, There is a quote from LACE that always made me think procreation was not involuntary: "Also the Eldar say that in the begetting, and still more in the bearing of children, greater share and strength of their being, in mind and body, goes forth than in the making of mortal children." Granted this is a complicated passage (grammatically) and I may not be parsing it correctly.... but doesn't this say that there's a mental effort involved in procreation? It's not just an involuntary physical process for elves, or at least that's the way I'm reading it. So that would mean no pregnancy unless both parents wanted to conceive. Of course this is only canonical if you think of LACE as canonical. I'd argue, though, that it's describing the facts of Elven procreation, not Noldor customs and sexual ethics. So unless you think non-Noldor procreate differently from Noldor, this would describe all elves. Just my tuppence.... Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1593 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78418 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 03:37:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 03:37:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.126) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 03:37:16 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 2762 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 03:37:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: AphadHkVM1kGaHbnNGbYur8LBbruoaU1dpGr5kcioHRbi5XN1JEMsrRviN.GXhlZER13VhUZsB_x3L6gHyeP11wV6eOrF2fUS1Id2tJh8rQPIGt81t8HGGSPIdpAuQ-- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:37:15 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:37:15 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-579077189-1205206635=:1895" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <140878.1895.qm@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=9fAfpeqby58nbQ5ajZ6c3xtVYKmPGm2Iq9fUqJquZfAHefXPse_Hdos X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-579077189-1205206635=:1895 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >So when I multiple that exponentially, well, being 2000 years old would be most certainly create a different kind of psychology which would be very distinct from mortal humans. Ooh, very good point! > That sounds quite congruent with JRRT's canonical views. Who knew the day would come when such a comment would apply to me! ;D > Another factor involved with aging is damage and repair of DNA and proteins. *memory is jogged* I believe we discussed this in a genetics class I took also. Indeed, we discussed the possibility (or impossibility) of immortality in one lecture. (Consequently, my theories were much more thought out a year ago when the information was fresh! ;D) I like the efficient protein and DNA repair system hypothesis too. All of this was very interesting! (I don't have much time to reply, sadly, and my brain seems to have gone into stand-by mode). Side note: I did not remember that telo means "end" because of its similarity to telu . Nope, not at all. *examines fingernails* ;D > Again, in that letter to Hastings, Tolkien writes that one would just need to enter his little world and study its biology (and he even made a comment about gerontology in that letter), so I think you and I can justify our speculations. :^) Now if only we could get the funds for field research! ;) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-579077189-1205206635=:1895 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >So when I multiple that exponentially, well, being 2000 years old would be most certainly create a different kind of psychology which would be very distinct
from mortal humans.

Ooh, very good point!

> That sounds quite congruent with JRRT's canonical views.

Who knew the day would come when such a comment would apply to me! ;D

> Another factor involved with aging is damage and repair of DNA and
proteins.

*memory is jogged* I believe we discussed this in a genetics class I took also. Indeed, we discussed the possibility (or impossibility) of immortality in one lecture. (Consequently, my theories were much more thought out a year ago when the information was fresh! ;D)

I like the efficient protein and DNA repair system hypothesis too. All of this was very interesting! (I don't have much time to reply, sadly, and my brain seems to have gone into stand-by mode).

Side note: I did not remember that telo means "end" because of its similarity to telu . Nope, not at all. *examines fingernails* ;D

> Again, in that letter to Hastings, Tolkien writes that one would just
need to enter his little world and study its biology (and he even made
a comment about gerontology in that letter), so I think you and I can
justify our speculations. :^)

Now if only we could get the funds for field research! ;)


~T�rion

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-579077189-1205206635=:1895-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1594 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97461 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 03:37:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 03:37:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.87) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 03:37:24 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 51621 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 03:37:24 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: n.8hsNsVM1kmyZfLpiY1pcrwfObnqJSUYJfpxP4K9pJ64auUYjXedLvtAu0G_LHQW7kO6AQ8Yub1r_QiF0yJzMOYLmmThLDs4NZouj.nfi6E5T0O56C4pywB_c6lu95U5NteblN8yRVvPeympCV0QP815uMvT38- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:37:23 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:37:23 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <24539.50578.qm@web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=ygp0e07b4o0CySEJ1r7VNJbj7SJYY1sSioyUC2Xiu6P7mkFCK8_GFqLcV8LK X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess Wonder if they'd do that spray-paint "clothing" thing. I could go for that, yay. I don't think there are articles in the SI Swimsuit issue anymore. At least there weren't in this year's. El hubby was visibly disappointed that there wasn't any NFL draft coverage. (He likes his hobbit lasses short and hairy, he does.) viv --- ellfine2000 wrote: > I'm looking forward to the Silmarillion Illustrated > Swimsuit Edition > myself. Of course, I'd only buy it for the articles > ;-) > > Ellie > > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1595 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32675 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 03:41:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 03:41:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 03:41:56 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d50.254b5045 (48552) for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:42:14 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205206934" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=CMUVNtyIrs5oLMr35PqWSQP8vURe364CPuVWS6q76RZt2WI45mZD X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205206934 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2008 10:37:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com writes: short and hairy Oh, ouch! Reminds me of a comment a writer (Kenaz) has made about not being attracted to hobbit eroticism, saying if she wanted to see short, hairy people getting it on that she would watch her neighbors. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205206934 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/10/2008 10:37:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, spacellamaprincess@ya= hoo.com writes:
short and hairy<= /BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, ouch! Reminds me of a comment a wri= ter (Kenaz) has made about not being attracted to hobbit eroticism, saying= if she wanted to see short, hairy people getting it on that she would wat= ch her neighbors.



-------------------------------1205206934-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1596 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76843 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 09:20:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 09:20:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO fg-out-1718.google.com) (72.14.220.152) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 09:20:53 -0000 X-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 22so1877547fge.25 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:20:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.82.184.2 with SMTP id h2mr15923013buf.1.1205227252424; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c22sm2550674ika.3.2008.03.11.02.20.49 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:20:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D64F02.6040908@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:21:06 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anym... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=SlHp-XVpzg_Gy7nyPeUa-HgkpiU_YGbDcHMNxZfYANkeyohe6PPj_pA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard pandemonium_213 wrote: > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >> >> In a message dated 3/10/2008 12:59:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> docbushwell@... writes: >> >> JRRT didn't >> expound upon, but in the event anyone needs any "defense" for your >> sweaty elves, let's check out what JRRT wrote to Peter Hastings in >> Letter 153 in The Letters of JRR Tolkien, (ed. H. Carpenter): >> >> "Elves and Men are evidently in biological terms one race, or they >> could not breed and produce fertile offspring - even as a rare > event..." >> >> >> Thanks, Panedmonium, I'm definitely keeping this cite handy, because > I do >> see this discussion come up several times a year, but as I noted in > an earlier >> email comment, rarely in Silmarillion circles, but more often in > LOTR-writers >> discussions. >> > > > Welcome back! I missed you! > > Yes, in spite of Tolkien's very words and his given evidence that > fertile offspring were produced, i.e., Dior, Earendil and Galador - > although the latter went to the default setting (mortal) with no > choice since his mom (Mithrellas) was not a lofty Elf of vaunted > lineage - the "Elves are not human" notion still persists. Well the choice was only given to an already mingled lineage which would serve a higher purpose. So I don't know what perspective you're looking at when it comes down to lofty. Mithrellas was perhaps of Silvan or Sindar blood (although iirc it was said that she was an handmaiden of Nimrodel who was either Silvan or Sindar, not her and I am just awake, finding over 70 e-mails in my inbox, so I'd have to look that up), but she might have been Noldor as well, given the group that ended up in Lorien. ;) I have been thinking about this a lot over the past years though, since Tolkien says in his letter that kids of an elf/edain lineage could only be conceived if they served a higher purpose (although he did admit not being a biologist). Despite the cruel choice left for Mithrellas, her house in the end served an enormous purpose in the War of the Ring where one of her off spring does save some important and key person's ass'. So all in all, this elf/man union having kids to serve a higher purpose in the Music does make sense looking at the complete tapestry in Tolkien's world. Then again, this is Rhapsy!verse, perhaps this is a my own created fanon in my head or I am being awfully close to what the Professor wanted with this pairing, I am not sure ;) > But I have already blathered about that with so much scientific > jargon. I might as well be using the Black Speech. Ash nazg and all > that jazg. It's quite readable and understandable, so don't worry about it! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1597 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7646 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 09:23:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 09:23:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO fk-out-0910.google.com) (209.85.128.189) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 09:23:56 -0000 X-Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 26so2319902fkx.10 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:23:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.78.205.7 with SMTP id c7mr17033454hug.27.1205227434916; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c24sm19535187ika.10.2008.03.11.02.23.51 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D64FB8.9000409@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:24:08 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=NQlCVaCAYYTq8R2lTTY1kSIqGQjheGoH-9NAGa6uuWFclcJUI0hEyrQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard ellfine2000 wrote: > I'm looking forward to the Silmarillion Illustrated Swimsuit Edition > myself. Of course, I'd only buy it for the articles ;-) Hmmm. *looks at Sirielle* There are plenty of artists who might pull off such an effort though. *considers her fav elves in a speedo* I just don't think Christopher would allow it, but Priscilla on the other hand... Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1598 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57498 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 09:50:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 09:50:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO fg-out-1718.google.com) (72.14.220.159) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 09:50:30 -0000 X-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so1936792fga.1 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:50:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.82.166.9 with SMTP id o9mr15902889bue.33.1205229029177; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y37sm2556481iky.7.2008.03.11.02.50.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D655F3.9020704@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:50:43 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=VbJBQykjjnLZVptJSsrPd2KtFkJA50HxYirNyEGG5Xi83AtZ4J1Dzeo X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard moreth00 wrote: >> Those are the very strict rules. > > I have no idea about general library rules (although I'm sure they > are tough!) but this one being a genuine copyright library (i.e. has > everything ever published in the UK + most stuff in EU / USA) I > totally understand their rigour on the matter. I can go in there and > *read* anything (kk - apparently some slightly weird rules apply to > explicit pornography - I've never actually tried to call any up :P I > mean /blush!), but taking material out of the library? - no damn way! > Ever! No! *nods* Ours is in the Hague, but over 12 scientific libraries appointed in ever province shoulder some extra parts of a collection theme too. Was a trainee in one, but I kind forgot which themes the scientific library in my city has. So yes, I can relate. I do think that publishers get a bit weird about e-content its like they know that they sit on a goldmine and wrangle potential clients for every penny. I sometimes sat in a meeting where we tried to explain the needs of a library user to a publisher while negotiating. For example, having content on an e-book reader or a palm thingie, the prices go ridicously up because the content ownership is expanded *outside* the library. The moment you started to discuss licences, IP based access and all, you could see the prices going up (or in some cases, I think its Elsevier, e-content was cheaper than paper, but the usage agreements stated that only once an article could be printed or one-user access (they can keep track of that, I know McGraw or Wiley does that with their e-books and we got monthly overviews)). Of course at the same time, they would love to use a promotional idea of a surgeon having access to an article in an operating room, but for them its big bucks business, leaving a library bleeding for it (even though forming a consortium does help a bit). Talking about nutty copyright agencies, there has been a trend going on they started to slam bloggers with lawsuits over here. Bloggers who by simply quoting parts from newspaper articles received C&D's notices for those blogs & the copyright agencies tried to bill them as well. O_o >> Word spreads fast too, so yeah. We'd probably have to think of > something else to really keep it private. > > Yeah - it looks too much like public access via a random hotmail > account :P Who knows... if it is essentially 'free-to-air' maybe they > are amenable to some deal. "Let us put your text in some 'members > only' area and we'll link your site as a supporting group..." ;) We'll see, there is a lot site technical possible (not yahoo though, that's too easy to bypass), but we cross that bridge when we get there. > Damn it - I've been doing way too many Non-Disclosure Agreements at > work! /Calls F�anor over - 'Hey - You need to go research way to stop > copper oxidising!' LOL It makes you wonder if F�anor ever claimed a patent over his works ;) Rhapsody (wove in a bit of on topicness) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1599 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27646 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 11:44:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 11:44:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n48a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 11:44:28 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n48.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 11:44:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 11:44:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 11:44:28 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:44:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47D64F02.6040908@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anym... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=Za8n8PTc0YnNVuHiIplLrDKlizlaIcNC1LoJKPLR_QpCmscavwfHmk2g X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Rhapsody = wrote: > Despite the cruel choice left for Mithrellas, her > house in the= end served an enormous purpose in the War of the Ring where > one of her = off spring does save some important and key person's ass'. So > all in all= , this elf/man union having kids to serve a higher purpose in > the Music = does make sense looking at the complete tapestry in Tolkien's > world. The= n again, this is Rhapsy!verse, perhaps this is a my own > created fanon in= my head or I am being awfully close to what the > Professor wanted with t= his pairing, I am not sure ;) Now that is an *excellent* point regardless = of whose 'verse it's in :^)! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1600 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42091 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 12:47:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 12:47:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 12:47:20 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 34451 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 12:47:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: RlIgcwkVM1nuvwXbHuKDE90n77uB5oS5xdyUaJQHgq9jxB_Qs0wmH.9_BGL2dz_8L8jv5UbD54sWddCfBqLhQgSGNN_BWoiDlLFhJX1c__iA78gdGeE- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:47:16 PDT Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:47:16 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47D5F720.2000400@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-405445736-1205239636=:33137" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <742355.33137.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=3sOneZvI99yi-i8e7N9pmR4s0xqwi5EaqVJxI6MkTRMBg7J5Dg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-405445736-1205239636=:33137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit But I wonder if the Noldor who had taken part in the kinslaying and leaving Aman would care about Lace. I mean they had already committed the greatest sins so a little pre-marriage nookie isn't THAT bad. I guess I'm having a hard time believing that those whose spouses chose not to come with them would remain faithful. Maybe its just the thought of having no sex for centuries terrifies me. "melayton@gmail.com" wrote: Alassante7 wrote: > > > I was told that was canon when I tried to have a surprise pregnancy but > I don't have any quotes. > Hey guys, There is a quote from LACE that always made me think procreation was not involuntary: "Also the Eldar say that in the begetting, and still more in the bearing of children, greater share and strength of their being, in mind and body, goes forth than in the making of mortal children." Granted this is a complicated passage (grammatically) and I may not be parsing it correctly.... but doesn't this say that there's a mental effort involved in procreation? It's not just an involuntary physical process for elves, or at least that's the way I'm reading it. So that would mean no pregnancy unless both parents wanted to conceive. Of course this is only canonical if you think of LACE as canonical. I'd argue, though, that it's describing the facts of Elven procreation, not Noldor customs and sexual ethics. So unless you think non-Noldor procreate differently from Noldor, this would describe all elves. Just my tuppence.... Marta ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-405445736-1205239636=:33137 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit But I wonder if the Noldor who had taken part in the kinslaying and leaving Aman would care about Lace. I mean they had already committed the greatest sins so a little pre-marriage nookie isn't THAT bad. I guess I'm having a hard time believing that those whose spouses chose not to come with them would remain faithful. Maybe its just the thought of having no sex for centuries terrifies me.

"melayton@gmail.com" wrote:
Alassante7 wrote:
>
>
> I was told that was canon when I tried to have a surprise pregnancy but
> I don't have any quotes.
>

Hey guys,

There is a quote from LACE that always made me think procreation was not
involuntary:

"Also the Eldar say that in the begetting, and still more in the bearing
of children, greater share and strength of their being, in mind and
body, goes forth than in the making of mortal children."

Granted this is a complicated passage (grammatically) and I may not be
parsing it correctly.... but doesn't this say that there's a mental
effort involved in procreation? It's not just an involuntary physical
process for elves, or at least that's the way I'm reading it. So that
would mean no pregnancy unless both parents wanted to conceive.

Of course this is only canonical if you think of LACE as canonical. I'd
argue, though, that it's describing the facts of Elven procreation, not
Noldor customs and sexual ethics. So unless you think non-Noldor
procreate differently from Noldor, this would describe all elves.

Just my tuppence....

Marta



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-405445736-1205239636=:33137-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1601 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 425 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 13:53:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 13:52:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 13:52:59 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d22.1eb3f08e (48552) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:52:42 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205243562" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=BUPFkPdQgHTvmymOWYQAte9pcMe4hpvJZUnVz6iSLu9NsL834Wgp X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205243562 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2008 7:47:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: But I wonder if the Noldor who had taken part in the kinslaying and leaving Aman would care about Lace. I mean they had already committed the greatest sins so a little pre-marriage nookie isn't THAT bad. My sentiments exactly. They had already proved themselves to be rulebreakers in a big way. And to more or less just shake their heads and say 'Pfft!" when the Valar told them what to do. Even Finafin's family who did not participate in the kinslaying wanted out of the cage. It just doesn't fit for me. They had none of the normal reasons for wanting to strike out and build a new life other than independence--they certainly already had everything material they could want. I guess I'm having a hard time believing that those whose spouses chose not to come with them would remain faithful. Maybe its just the thought of having no sex for centuries terrifies me. I guess Tolkien thought it's only fantasy when he wrote it and it didn't have to be entirely plausible. I get hung up on the point we were discussing yesterday--that elves are only human in the final analysis and no sex for centuries just doesn't work in my head. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205243562 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 3/11/2008 7:47:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes:=
But I wonder if the Noldor who had t= aken part in the kinslaying and leaving Aman would care about Lace. I me= an they had already committed the greatest sins so a little pre-marriage= nookie isn't THAT bad. 
My sentiments exactl= y. They had already proved themselves to be rulebreakers in a big way. And= to more or less just shake their heads and say 'Pfft!" when the Valar tol= d them what to do. Even Finafin's family who did not participate in the ki= nslaying wanted out of the cage. It just doesn't fit for me. They had none= of the normal reasons for wanting to strike out and build a new life othe= r than independence--they certainly already had everything material they c= ould want.
I guess I'm having a ha= rd time believing that those whose spouses chose not to come with them w= ould remain faithful. Maybe its just the thought of having no sex for ce= nturies terrifies me.
I guess Tolkien = thought it's only fantasy when he wrote it and it didn't have to be entire= ly plausible. I get hung up on the point we were discussing yesterday--tha= t elves are only human in the final analysis and no sex for centuries just= doesn't work in my head.



-------------------------------1205243562-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1602 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86401 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:01:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:01:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.98) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:01:25 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 93353 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 14:01:24 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: XjvTHI0VM1nRaiRrXT0.MaAKUvevjCwxYsiyjCibh.AAvMikAuV.WEgjdzs4TM.29Ubh0GJPfJHu4V6B353piUZ.nlFxOLA8YSjgKZYWSxItwM..Kw-- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:01:24 PDT Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:01:24 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-179236151-1205244084=:91146" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <605059.91146.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=eLYEMWWKaKtvXSCMd6JdWUueSPZg7SCxXuF6V7AxSjLeDwCQLw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-179236151-1205244084=:91146 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well its been a frequent argument in other groups that since Tolkien was a strict Catholic - he would never endorse pre-marital sex or adultry ever. So maybe he was just writing from that standpoint without thinking that a lot of the world doesn't act the same way. heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/11/2008 7:47:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: But I wonder if the Noldor who had taken part in the kinslaying and leaving Aman would care about Lace. I mean they had already committed the greatest sins so a little pre-marriage nookie isn't THAT bad. My sentiments exactly. They had already proved themselves to be rulebreakers in a big way. And to more or less just shake their heads and say 'Pfft!" when the Valar told them what to do. Even Finafin's family who did not participate in the kinslaying wanted out of the cage. It just doesn't fit for me. They had none of the normal reasons for wanting to strike out and build a new life other than independence--they certainly already had everything material they could want. I guess I'm having a hard time believing that those whose spouses chose not to come with them would remain faithful. Maybe its just the thought of having no sex for centuries terrifies me. I guess Tolkien thought it's only fantasy when he wrote it and it didn't have to be entirely plausible. I get hung up on the point we were discussing yesterday--that elves are only human in the final analysis and no sex for centuries just doesn't work in my head. --------------------------------- It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-179236151-1205244084=:91146 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well its been a frequent argument in other groups that since Tolkien was a strict Catholic - he would never endorse pre-marital sex or adultry ever. So maybe he was just writing from that standpoint without thinking that a lot of the world doesn't act the same way.

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/11/2008 7:47:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes:
But I wonder if the Noldor who had taken part in the kinslaying and leaving Aman would care about Lace. I mean they had already committed the greatest sins so a little pre-marriage nookie isn't THAT bad. 
My sentiments exactly. They had already proved themselves to be rulebreakers in a big way. And to more or less just shake their heads and say 'Pfft!" when the Valar told them what to do. Even Finafin's family who did not participate in the kinslaying wanted out of the cage. It just doesn't fit for me. They had none of the normal reasons for wanting to strike out and build a new life other than independence--they certainly already had everything material they could want.
I guess I'm having a hard time believing that those whose spouses chose not to come with them would remain faithful. Maybe its just the thought of having no sex for centuries terrifies me.
I guess Tolkien thought it's only fantasy when he wrote it and it didn't have to be entirely plausible. I get hung up on the point we were discussing yesterday--that elves are only human in the final analysis and no sex for centuries just doesn't work in my head.






~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-179236151-1205244084=:91146-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1603 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66515 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:08:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:08:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0910.google.com) (209.85.198.188) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:08:23 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c24so1547318rvf.13 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:08:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.141.178.5 with SMTP id f5mr4275279rvp.112.1205244502772; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m38sm10277684ugd.44.2008.03.11.07.08.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D69265.7040901@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:08:37 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <605059.91146.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <605059.91146.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=BQ7oUCBRzbEdHUFcFXZ41C2sh7K9p-dKfG4iI2iZVPjs_oJ4p5XsYwg X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Alassante7 wrote: > Well its been a frequent argument in other groups that since Tolkien was a strict Catholic - he would never endorse pre-marital sex or adultry ever. So maybe he was just writing from that standpoint without thinking that a lot of the world doesn't act the same way. Being a non-catholic myself, I don't think it has much to do with religion, but more as how to society considers infedility overall over the decades and centuries. It's still pretty much a taboo and a sound foundation for many lawsuits. It happens, but is still not accepted. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1604 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95982 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:11:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:11:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:11:57 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 36101 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 14:11:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: KDg9TgEVM1m1rbpviUkIA7vLuqAlfjTE9cXR_gZQwYh41lX.eLw7843_FT47L73FQwavf8hy.rwbUCHzxXi2SoqX1nM.SCokhd_JJ7tL_Wh3p4jH4GLBpuVHQWHSdJd40XB_3ZBkZ_30Cy0- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:11:53 PDT Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:11:53 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47D69265.7040901@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1925151586-1205244713=:33898" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <155503.33898.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=j5PdidaMj9yY533CPGv1AoVybP6vVrkodDXr_SqWMwoxwW80ZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1925151586-1205244713=:33898 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes but the Catholic church doesn't allow divorce either. And in my mind if you're divorced or widowed, its not infidelity. Rhapsody wrote: Alassante7 wrote: > Well its been a frequent argument in other groups that since Tolkien was a strict Catholic - he would never endorse pre-marital sex or adultry ever. So maybe he was just writing from that standpoint without thinking that a lot of the world doesn't act the same way. Being a non-catholic myself, I don't think it has much to do with religion, but more as how to society considers infedility overall over the decades and centuries. It's still pretty much a taboo and a sound foundation for many lawsuits. It happens, but is still not accepted. Rhapsody ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-1925151586-1205244713=:33898 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes but the Catholic church doesn't allow divorce either. And in my mind if you're divorced or widowed, its not infidelity.

Rhapsody wrote:
Alassante7 wrote:
> Well its been a frequent argument in other groups that since Tolkien was a strict Catholic - he would never endorse pre-marital sex or adultry ever. So maybe he was just writing from that standpoint without thinking that a lot of the world doesn't act the same way.

Being a non-catholic myself, I don't think it has much to do with
religion, but more as how to society considers infedility overall over
the decades and centuries. It's still pretty much a taboo and a sound
foundation for many lawsuits. It happens, but is still not accepted.

Rhapsody



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-1925151586-1205244713=:33898-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1605 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43659 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:12:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:12:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:12:35 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cd9.272fbfa6 (48552) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:12:43 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205244763" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=UOEawu-0H3U1vfatDE6PleI3AHTkbMcsVOsnJuvK5FAHgUV0FP5_ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205244763 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2008 9:01:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: a strict Catholic - he would never endorse pre-marital sex or adultry ever. So maybe he was just writing from that standpoint without thinking that a lot of the world doesn't act the same way. I could have told him that strict Catholics don't either but he was idealizing elves as being capable of things that lesser beings may aspire to yet don't always succeed at. For myself, when writing fanfiction, I stick to canon on the big historical sweep and fascinating details and tweak the smaller points, what may be considered the exceptions, to see what that produces. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205244763 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/11/2008 9:01:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com w= rites:
a strict Catholic - he would nev= er endorse pre-marital sex or adultry ever. So maybe he was just writing= from that standpoint without thinking that a lot of the world doesn't a= ct the same way.
I could hav= e told him that strict Catholics don't either but he was idealizing e= lves as being capable of things that lesser beings may aspire to= yet don't always succeed at. For myself, when writing fanfiction, I stick= to canon on the big historical sweep and fascinating details and tweak the= smaller points, what may be considered the exceptions, to see what t= hat produces.



-------------------------------1205244763-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1606 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79419 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:20:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:20:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.173) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:20:58 -0000 X-Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id j40so3087ugd.11 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:20:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.78.106.3 with SMTP id e3mr18027463huc.51.1205245257470; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z33sm3630464ikz.0.2008.03.11.07.20.51 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D69550.90503@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:21:04 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <155503.33898.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <155503.33898.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=wlRaYjADSqKG0ELndA4EhSKiXM3UgLievSyWG6os_WTAn818Mr3srSQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Alassante7 wrote: > Yes but the Catholic church doesn't allow divorce either. And in my mind if you're divorced or widowed, its not infidelity. Who says that the fact that their wives didn't go with them, that they are divorced? You assume that they divorced, but nowhere does it state that. The moment when Galadriel returns home to Valinor and Celeborn remains behind, does that mean in your eyes that they are divorced? Or a more Silm example: E�rendil and Elwing? E�rendil chose the sea above his wife, so are they divorced as well? Even in our worlds wifes chose not to go with their men: some go to war, some leave home for a long time because of their profession. Is it hard to imagine that despite being parted from your partner for a long time, they still remain faithful? Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1607 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9821 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:23:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:23:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.188) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:23:43 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id e11so1608598rng.7 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:23:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.143.159.11 with SMTP id l11mr2613533wfo.186.1205245421624; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:23:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:23:41 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <742355.33137.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3774_8408081.1205245421557" References: <47D5F720.2000400@gmail.com> <742355.33137.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KQwxU2_rYyqy7_R9U9DkVu24gzIgAL2Y6MT7bej3PUSKOUnOnVfR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_3774_8408081.1205245421557-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1608 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12641 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:28:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:28:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.77) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:28:50 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 611 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 14:28:49 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: UdcGj2oVM1nrlucML.3aYhCaeCcd3BAaAbAnsVJEDqE7V3uvD3ZI81P3KbMGdCVcYYWyZ0QBmrpA.CX6VUaKOs_SW5kO7bnCj.tZX3irB4TLyIs_B5IotfYfvtTaEAzyvakXJjNsLqog6rPxySIiDeA_6c6_1eU- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:28:49 PDT Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:28:49 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <742355.33137.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <858459.97621.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=4GBJqdu-oq2uu3jX5vytJUXw6uy6yPalFqAFAsi9EeuuwQvP51bV3ebecmo- X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess I'm with you on that. And the thought of those gorgeous elves having no sex for centuries terrifies me as well. But then I think: They, having lives the length of Arda, have a totally different concept of time than we do. A century to them might feel like a day to us (well probably not that severe, but you get what I mean). When you think of some of their life spans in Middle-earth (especially that ol' gal Galadriel), the mind boggles. I doubt seriously she would have been as bummed about a bad day the way I am sometimes :) viv --- Alassante7 wrote: > faithful. Maybe its just the thought of having no > sex for centuries terrifies me. http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1609 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61414 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:31:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:31:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:31:55 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 10382 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 14:31:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: g2NeOL8VM1k5qZhIbcj3pIjD_LvDihfByEIN2CgD X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:31:54 PDT Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:31:54 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47D69550.90503@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-451858372-1205245914=:98951" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <677193.98951.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=OP-O4y2dtbjuTfYwrbtFbBB9QgjRnzg3FYdO9f0p6uzt-K_GsA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-451858372-1205245914=:98951 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No I'm not saying they are divorced. I was actually just pointing out that Catholics consider divorce a sin and if you get divorced and remarry it is infidelity. My grandfather was excommunicated for being divorced and was said to be committing adultery when he got remarried and had a kid (my dad). That was a comment about the Catholic church's views not how it relates to elves but how it might relate to Tolkien's thinking along those lines where elves are bound for life. I was relating that the elves who were widowed might want to remarry or find someone else yet Tolkien only write of that case one time - Finwe, which, if I'm correct, was going against Lace - to get remarried after being widowed. Of course, I'm not saying that elves wouldn't remain faithful to a spouse they were parted from, nor do I find that hard to believe because it happens most of the time even in modern world and most people agree thats the way it should be. I'm talking about the elves whose spouse died. Rhapsody wrote: Alassante7 wrote: > Yes but the Catholic church doesn't allow divorce either. And in my mind if you're divorced or widowed, its not infidelity. Who says that the fact that their wives didn't go with them, that they are divorced? You assume that they divorced, but nowhere does it state that. The moment when Galadriel returns home to Valinor and Celeborn remains behind, does that mean in your eyes that they are divorced? Or a more Silm example: E�rendil and Elwing? E�rendil chose the sea above his wife, so are they divorced as well? Even in our worlds wifes chose not to go with their men: some go to war, some leave home for a long time because of their profession. Is it hard to imagine that despite being parted from your partner for a long time, they still remain faithful? Rhapsody ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-451858372-1205245914=:98951 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
No I'm not saying they are divorced. I was actually just pointing out that Catholics consider divorce a sin and if you get divorced and remarry it is infidelity. My grandfather was excommunicated for being divorced and was said to be committing adultery when he got remarried and had a kid (my dad).  That was a comment about the Catholic church's views not how it relates to elves but how it might relate to Tolkien's thinking along those lines where elves are bound for life.
 
I was relating that the elves who were widowed might want to remarry or find someone else yet Tolkien only write of that case one time - Finwe, which, if I'm correct, was going against Lace - to get remarried after being widowed.
 
Of course, I'm not saying that elves wouldn't remain faithful to a spouse they were parted from, nor do I find that hard to believe because it happens most of the time even in modern world and most people agree thats the way it should be. I'm talking about the elves whose spouse died.


Rhapsody wrote:
Alassante7 wrote:
> Yes but the Catholic church doesn't allow divorce either. And in my mind if you're divorced or widowed, its not infidelity.

Who says that the fact that their wives didn't go with them, that they
are divorced? You assume that they divorced, but nowhere does it state
that. The moment when Galadriel returns home to Valinor and Celeborn
remains behind, does that mean in your eyes that they are divorced? Or a
more Silm example: E�rendil and Elwing? E�rendil chose the sea above his
wife, so are they divorced as well?

Even in our worlds wifes chose not to go with their men: some go to war,
some leave home for a long time because of their profession. Is it hard
to imagine that despite being parted from your partner for a long time,
they still remain faithful?

Rhapsody



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-451858372-1205245914=:98951-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1610 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95253 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:33:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:33:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:33:16 -0000 X-Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d48.240e84a4 (30738) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:33:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:33:08 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205245988" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5018 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=I85wSzmWqdO8HbQywxpJFsDuXrhAvPXVQrDlM3tZMfdE-v-Kaw X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth -------------------------------1205245988 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Who says that the fact that their wives didn't go with them, that they are divorced? That probably also depends on how LaCE is interpreted (not even mentioning canonicity or Tolkien's social background here). If Elven marriage is read as a biological/spiritual fact, i.e. bodily union = spiritual union that can only be dissolved if one of the partners remains in Mandos infinitely, divorce would only be possible in that case, no matter the distance. If it's just a societal phenomenon, like the feasting, exchange of tokens and naming of Manwe, Varda and Eru, the Noldorin exiles could very well have considered themselves divorced... - Elleth -------------------------------1205245988 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Who says that= the fact that their wives didn't go with them, that they are divorced?
 
That probably also depends on how= LaCE is interpreted (not even mentioning canonicity or Tolkien's social b= ackground here). If Elven marriage is read as a biological/spiritual = fact, i.e. bodily union =3D spiritual union that can only be dissolved if = one of the partners remains in Mandos infinitely, divorce would only be po= ssible in that case, no matter the distance. If it's just a societal pheno= menon, like the feasting, exchange of tokens and naming of Manwe, Varda an= d Eru, the Noldorin exiles could very well have considered themselves divo= rced...
 
- Elleth
 = -------------------------------1205245988-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1611 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53309 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:33:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:33:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.187) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:33:50 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i50so1629477rne.11 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:33:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.200.2 with SMTP id x2mr4937222waf.19.1205246029736; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:33:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:33:49 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47D69550.90503@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3860_26914722.1205246029728" References: <155503.33898.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47D69550.90503@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MIL6B1KaIuf3IEN82q2B3OZATbm40RylEeNMOuyWYSNnkLP7yTTd X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_3860_26914722.1205246029728-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1612 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56431 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:43:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:43:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.187) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:43:51 -0000 X-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b21so898584nfd.47 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:43:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.78.136.9 with SMTP id j9mr17895266hud.78.1205246629844; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j9sm116320mue.6.2008.03.11.07.43.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D69AAE.8070007@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:43:58 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <677193.98951.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <677193.98951.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: widow(s) & bonds (was Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=gl4QQQ5ZJEWy2G3o8lhL2hfR9tlMRQ0Z0dv6kxViewxjpj_8Ut6thZs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Alassante7 wrote: > No I'm not saying they are divorced. I was actually just pointing out that Catholics consider divorce a sin and if you get divorced and remarry it is infidelity. My grandfather was excommunicated for being divorced and was said to be committing adultery when he got remarried and had a kid (my dad). That was a comment about the Catholic church's views not how it relates to elves but how it might relate to Tolkien's thinking along those lines where elves are bound for life. Yes, but even in our common daily world, where people are not married, but are in a relationship, adultery/infedility is still frowned upon or people are shunned for doing so. I mentioned that even these days, being catholic of not, it is still regarded as a taboo. The discussion you started was about exiled Noldo in ME and their spouses didn't go with them. The shift to widows is a bit strange. > I was relating that the elves who were widowed might want to remarry or find someone else yet Tolkien only write of that case one time - Finwe, which, if I'm correct, was going against Lace - to get remarried after being widowed. Well that is absolutely not clear from your reasoning in the previous posts since Finwe is not an exiled Noldo. The stature of Finwe and Miriel and the discussion around that has to do with the fact that upon marriage, a bond is created between man and wife (this is not only covered in Lace, but mentioned across the professor's works). This bond is not sundered when someone dies, and if a person chooses to return from Mandos then they are reunited with their spouses. Finwe could remarry because Miriel answered that she did not desire to return to her body and gave up all her rights to be reunited with Finwe. When Finwe died, Miriel became a handmaiden of Vaire and left Mandos. That's the whole anology regarding those three, in a nutshell. > Of course, I'm not saying that elves wouldn't remain faithful to a spouse they were parted from, nor do I find that hard to believe because it happens most of the time even in modern world and most people agree thats the way it should be. I'm talking about the elves whose spouse died. Well then, I adjusted the topic accordingly. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1613 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28132 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 14:58:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 14:58:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0910.google.com) (209.85.198.190) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 14:58:16 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so1303821rvb.20 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:58:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.141.169.9 with SMTP id w9mr4316631rvo.179.1205247496757; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?10.0.0.38? ( [82.72.74.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j2sm42007ugf.5.2008.03.11.07.58.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D69E17.5000608@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:58:31 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <155503.33898.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47D69550.90503@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=zvSGf69R-hRfIdF6RV-EeZ9WfghxMhqjDWE_04wiVEI9rTiz1zjAkH8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Dawn Felagund wrote: > On 3/11/08, Rhapsody wrote: >> Even in our worlds wifes chose not to go with their men: some go to war, >> some leave home for a long time because of their profession. Is it hard >> to imagine that despite being parted from your partner for a long time, >> they still remain faithful? > > I'd say that it depends on the couple. > > There are some couples that I think of as being divorced. The spouses have > made a conscious choice to separate; they have put other matters above the > continuation of their marriage. Curufin and his unnamed wife are a couple > that I think of like this. (Personal opinion and interpretation, of course > ... though I'd imagine that Alassante at least shares my interpretation > here. ;) Well of course, but that is a personal interpretation. There are also many other scenario's possible where an elf does remain faithful *especially* with a kid close. How about the wifes of many other Noldor that went with them? I have seen fascinating interpretations about this issue, but I don't think that parting means divorcing from your spouse, even for Feanorians. I think that in one of your fics (or someone else) you give the impression that the journey east would be a short campaign (might have been Salt, come to think of it) and that people thought they'd be home soon... with that mindset, partings like that could not be as bitter or drastic as it is portrayed here. > Then there are couples--Elwing and Earendil being a great example--who I > can't think of as being divorced, even if they are parted for a long while. > *These* I can imagine being faithful, even across long separations. > > I think that part of the problem comes with the term *divorce.* It is a > loaded term in our culture, surrounded by negative connotations for some and > legal connotations for others. But would most of these be relevant for > Elves? A lot of the negative connotations come from the breaking of > families, especially those with small children. For Elves like Feanor and > Nerdanel who "divorce" when their children are grown, this is not so much an > issue. Well not only with children involved. Other family members form a bond with the ex too, and that simply hurts as well (sadly enough been there too often). People don't have to be married to feel the pain that a 'legal' divorce/break up causes, it simply applies to every form of relationship. > And would Elves have a concept of legal marriage? I will look at this > closer, too, when I reread L&C, hopefully this afternoon. :) Oh I know there is a betrothal period mentioned and that the betrothal period can be made undone by melting the rings for example, there is a gift tradition and some more stuff, for example calling Manwë and Varda as a witness to the union. Then again, Lace is still jotted down by Aelfwine, so yeah, who knows what they told him and how much of his own medieval world seeped into it ;) > Now, I have a criminal being a pain, so I have to get back to work. That > might be my oddest sign-off on this group ever. :) Good luck! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1614 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74779 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 16:42:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 16:42:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.182) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 16:42:12 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m34so1480310ele.22 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:42:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.180.11 with SMTP id c11mr4446453rvf.166.1205253731942; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 26sm13731941wra.32.2008.03.11.09.42.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47D6B66C.5090508@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:42:20 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <47D5F720.2000400@gmail.com> <742355.33137.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=-vtD0nvIxrIDvkXaGpGcb2WgtX2dsZl8hmIgXqNw02Rn-gnGxF5-XQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, > Unless I'm reading this thread completely wrong, then Marta's point was > that the truth/canon/whathaveyou behind behaviors tied up more with > morality and culture can be easily disputed for peoples like the > Noldor or the Sindar. But the ideas in L&C that have more to do with > Elven biology--in this case, procreation--are a bit more difficult to > argue as being different between peoples. Would the Vanyar require a > "thought component" to procreation while the Noldor did not? That's > harder to reconcile, imo. > Exactly. I know there's a lot of disagreement over just who LACE applies to, and with the cultural/moral stuff, I'd never dream of using this essay as the basis of a general statement about all elves. But the bit I quoted isn't about culture or morality or anything else a people can decide doesn't apply to them; it's about procreation. Unless you think different elves procreated in different ways, a statement about the procreation of one group should apply to everyone. I'm far from an expert, but I've never seen any evidence that the different Elven peoples are biologically different. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1615 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98307 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 16:44:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 16:44:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 16:44:11 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c25.2f4a2867 (48552) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:43:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:44:16 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205253856" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control/marriage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=pRhjcph-2EOK4PjrQS839DrFKH5wKGk5JU64d0YpxK0zAlOFXUO2 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205253856 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2008 9:58:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes: There are also many other scenario's possible where an elf does remain faithful *especially* with a kid close. How about the wifes of many other Noldor that went with them? I have seen fascinating interpretations about this issue, but I don't think that parting means divorcing from your spouse, even for Feanorians. I look at these things as fiction and fun to play around with. For example, I like the Celeborn/Galadriel fics where there is an element of suspense and uncertainty of how he will be greeted if and when he finally shows up in Aman. Never thought about divorce, simply estrangement, temporary or permanent. I am a cynic about adherence to societal mores and religious prohibitions in real life, since I was raised in a strict Catholic family and grew up in the U.S. in the middle of the Bible Belt. I was not ten years old before I figured out that what people claim they do and what they actually do are two totally different questions. In my own stories, despite someone telling me once that my Fingon was a bit of a player (because he had two previous sexual partners and I was contemplating a third, more than a hundred years later), my elves are still far less likely to get involved in extra-marital affairs than people would be in real life. But then there is the question of the psychological affects of semi-immortality? I suspect the Noldor, who lost so many on the Helcaraxe and the flower of the Feanorian supporters killed (I don't have an exact figure in mind but a few dozen at least) when Maedhros was taken, and after meeting the Sindar and others and hearing of their losses in the First Battle Beleriand and the general levels of attrition from attacks by the enemy in this new land, were not feeling so immortal in those first days of the First Age. I assume that a lot of the women who did not come into exile with the Noldor, stayed with a certain amount of bitterness. Like Alassante, I am still not calling this divorce either or assuming that were never reunited, but simply venturing the idea that these were not happy, good-luck-honey kind of separations. Some day I will do some speculative thinking and research about how many women might have accompanied their men or were actually the driving force in making the decision to leave (there's a plotbunny for someone). One could speculate that Galadriel was simply the tip of the iceberg; that there were other women of lesser birth and fame who made her choice. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205253856 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/11/2008 9:58:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com w= rites:
There are also
many other sc= enario's possible where an elf does remain faithful
*especially* wit= h a kid close. How about the wifes of many other Noldor
that went wi= th them? I have seen fascinating interpretations about
this issue, b= ut I don't think that parting means divorcing from your
spouse, even= for Feanorians.
I look at these= things as fiction and fun to play around with. For example, I like the Ce= leborn/Galadriel fics where there is an element of suspense and uncertaint= y of how he will be greeted if and when he finally shows up in Aman. Never= thought about divorce, simply estrangement, temporary or permanent.
=
 
I am a cynic about adherence to societal mores and = religious prohibitions in real life, since I was raised in a strict Cathol= ic family and grew up in the U.S. in the middle of the Bible Belt. I was n= ot ten years old before I figured out that what people claim they do and w= hat they actually do are two totally different questions.
&nbs= p;
In my own stories, despite someone telling me once that my Fi= ngon was a bit of a player (because he had two previous sexual partners an= d I was contemplating a third, more than a hundred years later), my elves = are still far less likely to get involved in extra-marital affairs than&nb= sp;people would be in real life. But then there is the question of the psy= chological affects of semi-immortality? I suspect the Noldor, who lost so = many on the Helcaraxe and the flower of the Feanorian supporters killed (I= don't have an exact figure in mind but a few dozen at least) when Maedhro= s was taken, and after meeting the Sindar and others and hearing of their = losses in the First Battle Beleriand and the general levels of attrition f= rom attacks by the enemy in this new land, were not feeling so immortal in= those first days of the First Age.
 
I assume t= hat a lot of the women who did not come into exile with the Noldor, stayed= with a certain amount of bitterness. Like Alassante, I am still not calli= ng this divorce either or assuming that were never reunited, but simply ve= nturing the idea that these were not happy, good-luck-honey kind of s= eparations. Some day I will do some speculative thinking and research = about how many women might have accompanied their men or were actually the= driving force in making the decision to leave (there's a plotbunny for so= meone). One could speculate that Galadriel was simply the tip of the icebe= rg; that there were other women of lesser birth and fame who made her cho= ice.



-------------------------------1205253856-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1616 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48025 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 16:46:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 16:46:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 16:46:22 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d51.2549232f (48552) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:46:21 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205253981" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=bAKdhVKYzbdlUdOBLnLOwrSCKi2M0noKQ8K_Rlhx9-ODzvZahAAy X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205253981 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2008 11:43:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, melayton@gmail.com writes: But the bit I quoted isn't about culture or morality or anything else a people can decide doesn't apply to them; it's about procreation. Unless you think different elves procreated in different ways, a statement about the procreation of one group should apply to everyone. I understood your point and agree with that. I'm far from an expert, but I've never seen any evidence that the different Elven peoples are biologically different. I wouldn't think they would be either. I assumed that you speaking of the capacity to chose or accept fertility in a given situation. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205253981 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 3/11/2008 11:43:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, melayton@gmail.com writes:<= /DIV>
But the bit I quoted isn't about cultur= e or morality or anything else a
people can decide doesn't apply to = them; it's about procreation. Unless
you think different elves procr= eated in different ways, a statement
about the procreation of one gr= oup should apply to everyone.
I understood your p= oint and agree with that.
I'm far
f= rom an expert, but I've never seen any evidence that the different
E= lven peoples are biologically different.

<= /DIV>
 
I wouldn't think they would be either. I assum= ed that you speaking of the capacity to chose or accept fertility in a giv= en situation.



-------------------------------1205253981-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1617 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33042 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 17:08:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 17:08:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 17:08:35 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95EB158050 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:08:34 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:08:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:08:35 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <368679709.20080311180835@tlen.pl> To: Tarion Anarore In-Reply-To: <649564.80978.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <506969446.20080311030610@tlen.pl> <649564.80978.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re[2]: funnies [was: at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans?] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=kPE7bskxv__mo45uYE42IM8akcKnLZKg3s46f8gviRzX7pcfUx0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Tarion, >>3 Am, it's all elve's fault TA> I'm beginning to think that Elves are nocturnal...;) They don't pay attention to time, so no one notices when 8PM turns into 3AM. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1618 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12741 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 17:11:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 17:11:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 17:11:54 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833AD3E8085 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:11:53 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:11:52 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:11:54 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <588599410.20080311181154@tlen.pl> To: ellfine2000 In-Reply-To: References: <153286477.20080310225051@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=uPZPl-EI48MAsPTVYcaKg1Ahi94IZjhdsv6YBz_RDWnouKE1n5Y X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Ellie, e> I'm looking forward to the Silmarillion Illustrated Swimsuit Edition e> myself. Of course, I'd only buy it for the articles ;-) Swimsuits, then you look forward to see N�menorean summer style? I bet Quendi didn't bother with clothes while swimming so nothing interesting on their part of the book. ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1619 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5840 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 17:24:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 17:24:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 17:24:33 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AD93748082 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:24:30 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:24:29 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:24:31 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <31979040.20080311182431@tlen.pl> To: Rhapsody In-Reply-To: <47D64FB8.9000409@gmail.com> References: <47D64FB8.9000409@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=4yOvh2rGVl4oLRYsxAqJLk2v3SZid38sc9J-xgS6T7YwQOE2e3E X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, R> Hmmm. *looks at Sirielle* My Noldor prefer to bath in plate mail, especially with jacuzzi and fire works, haven't you seen? ;P R> There are plenty of artists who might pull off R> such an effort though. *considers her fav elves in a speedo* Celegorm smirks on a thought of silly Mortals bathing in clothes. So I don't think it's possible to catch him in a swim suit. You would have to talk him into that, selling it as a kind of joke teasing fanguirls etc ;) R> I just don't think Christopher would allow it, but Priscilla on the R> other hand... If they didn't know that the people in swim suits are form the Silm they would not bother ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1620 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92824 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 17:29:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 17:29:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 17:29:01 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cf9.2ca68e3a (48552) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:29:12 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205256552" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=RhF3hNeH6GcXtRGpabPRyiv-Yl1ojKEFUEA8bConBpmEkQYWElqq X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205256552 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/11/2008 12:12:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, siriell= e@tlen.pl writes: Swimsuits, then you look forward to see N=FAmenorean sum= mer style? I bet Quendi didn't bother with clothes while swimming so nothi= ng interesting on their part of the book. OK, then it's the Swimming/B= each Issue I want to see. Not that I'm not interested in a tall, handsome= Numenorean in his swim suit. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, fo= rms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCI= D=3Daolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205256552 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
In a messa= ge dated 3/11/2008 12:12:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl wri= tes:
Swimsuits, then you look forward t= o see N=FAmenorean summer style? I bet Quendi
didn't bother with clot= hes while swimming so nothing interesting on
their part of the book.<= BR>
OK, then it's the Swimmi= ng/Beach Issue I want to see. Not that I'm not interested in a tall, hands= ome Numenorean in his swim suit.



-------------------------------1205256552-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1621 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56140 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 18:05:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 18:05:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 18:05:04 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54B3B3E80BD for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:05:02 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:05:01 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:05:03 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <317428070.20080311190503@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <742355.33137.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <47D5F720.2000400@gmail.com> <742355.33137.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=T2MltFv-QXkLzON_lHoh0ebTmycXSQKPCdgR580lO9Apcrk2BFk X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, I keep thinking that LACE are later invention, it does not mean though that Noldor had no laws and did what ever they wanted. All Quendi held honor and pride high, especially Noldor. They needed no written law to be faithful. Those who betrayed others were already tormented by pain, madness, curse and oath. A> Maybe its just the thought of having no sex for centuries terrifies me. LACE doesn't matter, stop thinking like a mortal being. Time doesn't matter. What you're missing today you'll do tomorrow. What matters when revolting Valar and going to war and building a new world? What ever close in DNA Quendi and mortal race are I don't think they were as sexual beings as mortal race is. Mortals die and have to breed or species will not survive. Breeding is a reason of sex, in extra addition we get sexual pleasure, that's not it's main goal. Beings who live as long as Arda can't breed non stop thus they'll lust less as everything needs balance. And the last thing I expect is Quendi being unfaithful to the ones they love. No one revolted Valar for fun. It was not act of committing lesser evil to do something they saw as more important than their own happiness and lives. That goes especially for Feanorians who knew where they are going (though truth was much, much worse than they expected). Others frightened by the Nightfall, following charmed by mad man's words might have less clear vision of what they are doing. (I wonder how contradictory it is to my other thoughts on the revolt subject.) A> Well its been a frequent argument in other groups that since A> Tolkien was a strict Catholic - he would never endorse pre-marital A> sex or adultry ever. So maybe he was just writing from that A> standpoint without thinking that a lot of the world doesn't act the A> same way. Yet he wrote it and they are his beings and as such probably act the way he thought they will do. What ever were hi thoughts. Strict Catholic or not he wasn't an angel and some naughty thoughts are hidden behind lustful giant spiders. If one wants to dig ;) But what evidence provides serves that hypothesis - his elves would behave the way he would. And he was going to wait for his beloved as long as he had to. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1622 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42594 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 18:10:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 18:10:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 18:10:12 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80013E80AC for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:10:11 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:10:10 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:10:12 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <159285356.20080311191012@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=GoRUqF045SQc5fbOmpI4qiV_cZ8k5Eef7fnKGAKnmPkWWHLh--0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> I mean they had already committed the greatest sins Does "sin" exist on Arda? Do we have it in use? hac> so a little pre-marriage nookie isn't THAT bad. Pre-marriage nookie. Sounds funny, need to check the dictionary later ;) Hmmm, I don't see it as a problem at all. Problem for me is seeing Quendi the same as mortal beings concerning sex. In the end we get only humans with pointy ears, nothing more. hac> Even Finafin's family who did not participate in the kinslaying hac> wanted out of the cage. It just doesn't fit for me. They had hac> none of the normal reasons for wanting to strike out and build a hac> new life other than independence--they certainly already had hac> everything material they could want. But they thought they need to be independent. Maybe they just had too good and didn't realized what they have no knowing what having bad, tough life means. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1623 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79172 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 18:15:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 18:15:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 18:15:08 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 296FD5803A for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:15:05 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:15:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:15:05 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <579541528.20080311191505@tlen.pl> To: Rhapsody In-Reply-To: <47D69550.90503@gmail.com> References: <155503.33898.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47D69550.90503@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=NVlODvTzluU6qnfemzmGeQ7Pr_E6bayEmyW3QG7TPr8O-p_U_j4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, R> Alassante7 wrote: >> Yes but the Catholic church doesn't allow divorce either. And >> in my mind if you're divorced or widowed, its not infidelity. R> Who says that the fact that their wives didn't go with them, that they R> are divorced? I don't think they were divorced either. A lot of these wives went East, only their names haven't been recorded. R> Even in our worlds wifes chose not to go with their men: some go to war, R> some leave home for a long time because of their profession. Is it hard R> to imagine that despite being parted from your partner for a long time, R> they still remain faithful? Very good point. Some do some don't. But we're talking about the more ideal /idealized beings than the mortal race. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1624 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49119 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 18:15:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 18:15:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 18:15:35 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c82.2822d33d (48552) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:15:52 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205259352" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=0HNlBM4mOJVYljyNZnNlazXg0M1F4kVbi0bJMzvG5oJSidifomC2 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1205259352 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2008 1:10:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: Maybe they just had too good and didn't realized what they have no knowing what having bad, tough life means. I think that is an interesting subject for a discussion. Something about coming to Aman was a detail that Eru/The One got right and the Valar got wrong. The Eldar were not meant to live in Aman leaving Middle-earth behind entirely and, therefore, were never really satisfied there. I always saw the Vanyar as the odd/unnatural ones. But that is not really canon (Tolkien seemed to think the Vanyar were exemplary--but it contradicts other things he wrote). **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) -------------------------------1205259352 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/11/2008 1:10:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl write= s:
Maybe they just had too
good and = didn't realized what they have no knowing what having bad,
tough life= means.
I think that is an i= nteresting subject for a discussion. Something about coming to Aman was a = detail that Eru/The One got right and the Valar got wrong. The Eldar = were not meant to live in Aman leaving Middle-earth behind entirely and, t= herefore, were never really satisfied there. I always saw the Vanyar as th= e odd/unnatural ones. But that is not really canon (Tolkien seemed to thin= k the Vanyar were exemplary--but it contradicts other things he wrote).


 -------------------------------1205259352-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1625 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42228 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 18:18:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 18:18:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 18:18:29 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3326374808B for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:18:25 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:18:24 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:18:26 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <304275912.20080311191826@tlen.pl> To: Viv In-Reply-To: <858459.97621.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <742355.33137.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <858459.97621.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=t90_chgTajhIcB4IhpIbAamQnNjAB2XyIsVBe39VsBxv45g0y9Y X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Viv, V> But then I think: They, having lives the V> length of Arda, have a totally different concept of V> time than we do. Definitely agree. Different time measure and different view on the whole life with it's all domains. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1626 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98309 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 18:24:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 18:24:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 18:24:52 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A9095800A for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:24:51 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:24:50 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:24:51 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <362794588.20080311192451@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <677193.98951.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <47D69550.90503@gmail.com> <677193.98951.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=XrS_F8Y7rZlybAvwbgdzeCxplVS7-NnhmvvWE98odLYtKJgJFSY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, A> No I'm not saying they are divorced. I was actually just A> pointing out that Catholics consider divorce a sin and if you get A> divorced and remarry it is infidelity. Very orthodox, but maybe church still got such views. My uncle got divorce signed by Pop, so it's possible. A> I was relating that the elves who were widowed might want to A> remarry or find someone else yet Tolkien only write of that case A> one time - Finwe, which, if I'm correct, was going against Lace - A> to get remarried after being widowed. Nothing about LACE in his case, but he is described as the only elf remarrying if I am correct. Valar needed a special counsel before that no one ever had such a need. A> I'm talking about the elves whose spouse died. That's the same as if they were left in the West. Elves do not really die. I know some of you have got Valar conspiracy theories, but I stay with being reborn offered for every elf who is ready for that. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1627 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24122 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 18:31:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 18:31:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 18:31:46 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C23258014 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:31:45 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:31:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:31:46 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1959816488.20080311193146@tlen.pl> To: "LadyElleth@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=4KWXaKAwQuAANajtFSsufsHa2A2HK5m_cIaLF6ghLVUXj-_wdEo X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai LadyElleth, Lac> That probably also depends on how LaCE is interpreted (not Lac> even mentioning canonicity or Tolkien's social background here). Lac> If Elven marriage is read as�a biological/spiritual fact, i.e. Lac> bodily union = spiritual union that can only be dissolved if one Lac> of the partners remains in Mandos infinitely, divorce would only Lac> be possible in that case, no matter the distance. If it's just a Lac> societal phenomenon, like the feasting, exchange of tokens and Lac> naming of Manwe, Varda and Eru, the Noldorin exiles could very Lac> well have considered themselves divorced... Another has been note saved, very condensed. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1628 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2639 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 18:40:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 18:40:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 18:40:54 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E21E58068 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:40:53 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:40:52 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:40:54 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <951667406.20080311194054@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=95n5zUL-rt9_Ov5AJ-s9VB9TJSHcaJc7kENgGBZFdvjEwe_MGYk X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> OK, then it's the Swimming/Beach Issue I want to see. Sub title: "On the shores of Aman where fair Quendi lie" hac> Not that I'm not interested in a tall, handsome Numenorean in his hac> swim suit. ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1629 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14352 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 18:49:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 18:49:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 18:49:33 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n4so3510267wag.6 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:49:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.110.1 with SMTP id i1mr5380684wac.112.1205261372509; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:49:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:49:32 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <159285356.20080311191012@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6042_5228142.1205261372475" References: <159285356.20080311191012@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8sBAwC3ZP1o0W34qlG0iNNf3Cd4y7sEkTdFhrPofG0NaNZccCuf3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_6042_5228142.1205261372475-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1630 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58023 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 18:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 18:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 18:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-m13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c5b.29ba6643 (41810) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:52:11 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1205261531" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5018 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion illustrated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=Sl-G-uai1z0auHaVjV1454cJwo7jUWyHlOLYDkSDMALwHrSIgg X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth -------------------------------1205261531 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>Not that I'm not interested in a tall, handsome Numenorean in his swim = suit. That N=FAmenorean kid in The Lost Road (forgot his name, but he was= a son of Elendil and precursor of Isildur) went skinnydipping... so if h= e's the rule, there is not much of a swimsuit in the way. ;) >>On the s= hores of Aman where fair Quendi lie Heee! :D Let me again cite The Lost R= oad. There blowing free unbraided hair Is meshed with light of moon and= sun, And tangled with those tresses fair A gold= and silver sheen is spun. There feet do beat and white and = bare Do lissom limbs in dances run, Their robe= s the wind, their raiment air - Such loveliness to look upon E= mphasises mine - now I'd like to see that swimsuit edition, please. Or no= n-swimsuit edition, as it is... O:) - Elleth -------------------------------1205261531 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
>>Not = that I'm not interested in a tall, handsome Numenorean in his swim suit.
 
That N=FAmenorean kid in The Lost= Road (forgot his name, but he was a son of Elendil and precursor of Isild= ur) went skinnydipping... so if he's the rule, there is not much of a swim= suit in the way. ;)
 
>>On the shores = of Aman where fair Quendi lie
 
He= ee! :D Let me again cite The Lost Road.
 
There= blowing free unbraided hair
Is meshed with light of moon and = sun,          
And ta= ngled with those tresses fair       &n= bsp;   
A gold and silver sheen is spun.  &n= bsp;         
There feet = do beat and white and bare        =   
Do lissom limbs in dances run,    &n= bsp;        
Their robes t= he wind, their raiment air -       = ; 
Such loveliness to look upon
 
Emph= asises mine - now I'd like to see that swimsuit edition, please. Or non-sw= imsuit edition, as it is... O:)
 
- Elleth -------------------------------1205261531-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1631 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72377 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 19:14:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 19:14:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.136) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 19:14:45 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 19:14:45 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 19:14:45 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 19:14:44 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:14:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <13345684.20080310225922@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=urRxZ-1DLXEuAqi0vl-DFuJkIM-qdCLXb48cSFssEoK-qvrIDnlM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle w= rote: > And one more person don't getting the concept of fantasy. They simp= ly > don't because they don't. You see they crossed Helcarax=EB and didn't = > froze to death, so they will not sweat, either, simple. True ... it is s= imple to chalk it up as simply "fantasy." :) But I don't think that one at= tempting to understand a fictional world using science and logic is necess= arily ignorant of fantasy. And JRRT himself was quite interested with tyin= g in his fantasy world to reality. We have his original creation myth in t= he _Ainulindale_: pure fantasy. But then, at the end of his life, in _Myth= s Transformed,_ we see him doing a complete overhaul of that myth in orde= r to bring it in line with the modern understanding of astronomy, even if = it meant that he had to scrap or make convoluted some of the defining aspe= cts of his mythology. (Such as having the Trees as the sole source of ligh= t on Arda, thus plunging the world into unrelieved darkness at their destr= uction until the creation of the Sun and the Moon.) But, in the end, I'm = with you: It matters little to me in a story whether or not an Elf sweats.= I'm not sure to be amused or dismayed that people on this list have been = criticized for this in the past. Either way, I'm not surprised. If the Elf= sweats (even if he smells when he does!), then I chalk it up to the write= r being in touch with reality. If he doesn't sweat, it means to me that th= e author is using fantasy. Simple indeed. :) Dawn Felagund From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1632 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25425 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 19:35:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 19:35:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 19:35:40 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c00.2b9660dc (34897) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:35:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M06 (mblk-m06.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.39]) by cia-da01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA016-885147d6df00bf; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:35:28 -0500 References: <159285356.20080311191012@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:35:28 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA51C631DC5946_740_7799_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 35304-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.39) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:35:28 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA51C631BFBD3E-740-3BBE@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=gzu8IbPhk-Ldap315S21kWL-6XGMR3Mo8NPQy5i0RsqRpJZDSVmR X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA51C631DC5946_740_7799_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" They didn't care that I made Caranthir into a mind-reader or let Rumil be mutilated by Orcs or any number of inventions ... but Nelyo's sexuality made him "un-Elven." Extremely interesting and telling about our culture. When I read AMC for the first time, I barely noticed that element, because I was new to fanfiction (and its taboos and controversies), and you were writing about the equivalent of a healthy, lusty teenage boy, who was also quite appealing to girls--in what culture would he have been all that different? He differed principally in that he was perhaps more attractive and charismatic than others around him and has few peers, so is more likely to get at least to first base without being rejected. His somewhat precocious interest in the opposite sex also fits with the canon history of his father (marrying young and producing a record number of children). In a novel outside of fanfiction, the amount of semi-explicit sexuality that AMC contained would be considered relatively mild, pushing it perhaps just beyond the teen novel status at most--beyond Harry Potter but less than most mystery or spy novels. -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 2:49 pm Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control On 3/11/08, Sirielle wrote: > Hmmm, I don't see it as a problem at all. Problem for me is seeing > Quendi the same as mortal beings concerning sex. In the end we get > only humans with pointy ears, nothing more. I think this is only true if you define Elves as Elves based on ears and sex. ;) ? The question was asked, "What keeps Elves from being merely pretty humans?" I've really enjoyed reading all of the replies to this. (Nice and naughty. ;) I'm with Pandemonium that the canon seems pretty obvious to me (never mind JRRT stating outright in his letters) that Elves and Men were both humans. So where is the difference? ? Immortality and fate were both brought up and, for me, this is where the difference lies. Not ears, not sex. (Though I like both of these things about Elves too. ;) As has been mentioned already, immortality gives Elves a view on the world entirely different from that of a mortal Man.* Likewise, their differing fates might influence their behavior, particularly among those individuals who are fairly confident of their fate. I see both of these things as resulting in huge differences between Elves and mortal humans so that even if we make everyone's ears the same and remove the sexual mystique from Elven culture, we'll still end up with very different beings, methinks. ? * From here out, I will use "mortal human" since "mortal Man" (even with a capital M!) is sexist and bugs me. ? Personally, I think that people get a little too hung up on the sexual aspects of being Elven. This probably reflects our culture to a great degree, where sex is always of concern and always faintly tabboo and, thus, eagerly discussed. Or--to be blunt--we are obsessed with sex. When I worked at a restaurant in my school days, a woman once called to complain that the banana on the side of our delivery truck looked too phallic. Now, I was college-aged and as dirty-minded as one could get, and I never saw a penis on that truck. It was a banana! We are just obsessed with sex; we see it everywhere and probably grant it more importance than it deserves, all things considered. ? Of all the crazy things I have done in my stories to turn canon on its head, I get the most complaints about the way that I portray my Elves sexually. In AMC, Nelyo "goes to third base" (as we Americans would say; if anyone needs a translation, mail me privately; I'm trying to keep this post at a Teens rating ;) with his girlfriend, and people flipped out! They didn't care that I made Caranthir into a mind-reader or let Rumil be mutilated by Orcs or any number of inventions ... but Nelyo's sexuality made him "un-Elven." It wasn't just a detail of my interpretation. It defined my interpretation. ? I'm not saying that my way is the only way, of course?... but writing Elves that feel strong sexual desire is certainly defensible canonically, imho, and still allows Elves and mortal humans to be quite separate beings with vastly different world outlooks. ? Wow ... I intended this to be brief. :^| ? Back to work! ? Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ----------MB_8CA51C631DC5946_740_7799_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
They didn't care that I made Caranthir into a mind-reader or let Rumil be mutilated by Orcs or any number of inventions ... but Nelyo's sexuality made him "un-Elven."
Extremely interesting and telling about our culture. When I read AMC for the first time, I barely noticed that element, because I was new to fanfiction (and its taboos and controversies), and you were writing about the equivalent of a healthy, lusty teenage boy, who was also quite appealing to girls--in what culture would he have been all that different? He differed principally in that he was perhaps more attractive and charismatic than others around him and has few peers, so is more likely to get at least to first base without being rejected. His somewhat precocious interest in the opposite sex also fits with the canon history of his father (marrying young and producing a record number of children). In a novel outside of fanfiction, the amount of semi-explicit sexuality that AMC contained would be considered relatively mild, pushing it perhaps just beyond the teen novel status at most--beyond Harry Potter but less than most mystery or spy novels.


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 2:49 pm
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control

On 3/11/08, Sirielle <sirielle@tlen.pl> wrote:
> Hmmm, I don't see it as a problem at all. Problem for me is seeing
> Quendi the same as mortal beings concerning sex. In the end we get
> only humans with pointy ears, nothing more.

I think this is only true if you define Elves as Elves based on ears and sex. ;)
 
The question was asked, "What keeps Elves from being merely pretty humans?" I've really enjoyed reading all of the replies to this. (Nice and naughty. ;) I'm with Pandemonium that the canon seems pretty obvious to me (never mind JRRT stating outright in his letters) that Elves and Men were both humans. So where is the difference?
 
Immortality and fate were both brought up and, for me, this is where the difference lies. Not ears, not sex. (Though I like both of these things about Elves too. ;) As has been mentioned already, immortality gives Elves a view on the world entirely different from that of a mortal Man.* Likewise, their differing fates might influence their behavior, particularly among those individuals who are fairly confident of their fate. I see both of these things as resulting in huge differences between Elves and mortal humans so that even if we make everyone's ears the same and remove the sexual mystique from Elven culture, we'll still end up with very different beings, methinks.
 
* From here out, I will use "mortal human" since "mortal Man" (even with a capital M!) is sexist and bugs me.
 
Personally, I think that people get a little too hung up on the sexual aspects of being Elven. This probably reflects our culture to a great degree, where sex is always of concern and always faintly tabboo and, thus, eagerly discussed. Or--to be blunt--we are obsessed with sex. When I worked at a restaurant in my school days, a woman once called to complain that the banana on the side of our delivery truck looked too phallic. Now, I was college-aged and as dirty-minded as one could get, and I never saw a penis on that truck. It was a banana! We are just obsessed with sex; we see it everywhere and probably grant it more importance than it deserves, all things considered.
 
Of all the crazy things I have done in my stories to turn canon on its head, I get the most complaints about the way that I portray my Elves sexually. In AMC, Nelyo "goes to third base" (as we Americans would say; if anyone needs a translation, mail me privately; I'm trying to keep this post at a Teens rating ;) with his girlfriend, and people flipped out! They didn't care that I made Caranthir into a mind-reader or let Rumil be mutilated by Orcs or any number of inventions ... but Nelyo's sexuality made him "un-Elven." It wasn't just a detail of my interpretation. It defined my interpretation.
 
I'm not saying that my way is the only way, of course ... but writing Elves that feel strong sexual desire is certainly defensible canonically, imho, and still allows Elves and mortal humans to be quite separate beings with vastly different world outlooks.
 
Wow ... I intended this to be brief. :^|
 
Back to work!
 
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
----------MB_8CA51C631DC5946_740_7799_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1633 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1084 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 19:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 19:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 19:45:50 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E09C558041 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:45:47 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:45:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:45:49 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1514710914.20080311204549@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <13345684.20080310225922@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=PEs5UlE36gDD-pPEOz8l0qoKJf50u6tpXVJ3EK7oVsXJA2_J5Do X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle DF> wrote: >> And one more person don't getting the concept of fantasy. They simply >> don't because they don't. You see they crossed Helcarax� and didn't >> froze to death, so they will not sweat, either, simple. DF> True ... it is simple to chalk it up as simply "fantasy." :) But I was joking! Arrrrgh. "It's fantasy" is for me the last excuse to use and should not be used too often. In fact it usually irritates me when people use it to justify everything. But if John Howe can use it defending claws on armour dangerous for the armour owner then I can accept it from time to time and even use myself if I need. Anyway - in the above quotation I was joking. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1634 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8181 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 19:51:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 19:51:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.181) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 19:51:00 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n4so3536884wag.6 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:51:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.15.1 with SMTP id 1mr5403847wao.27.1205265059765; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:50:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:50:59 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1514710914.20080311204549@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6391_22914864.1205265059724" References: <13345684.20080310225922@tlen.pl> <1514710914.20080311204549@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=zWwrZmHnubi2t3F-BKZiNYNL1F8q4Qgcyb5xUz4o5RCiAsPnclR7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_6391_22914864.1205265059724-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1635 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58196 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 19:58:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 19:58:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 19:58:46 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3A983E807D for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:58:44 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:58:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:58:45 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <989930286.20080311205845@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <13345684.20080310225922@tlen.pl> <1514710914.20080311204549@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=dCwi_8VU04gRvPbesl__Dg7XVva-aVA0vCJ7AmP8NUxb03iu7To X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, >> But I was joking! Arrrrgh. DF> Okay, I didn't get that ... obviously. ;) But then, there was DF> once a study where the tone of 50% of emails was misunderstood, so DF> I don't think I do badly overall. ;) Or rather my joke didn't sound like a joke which is more possible. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1636 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52679 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 20:13:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 20:13:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 20:13:09 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A35558006 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:13:09 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:13:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:13:10 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1494715148.20080311211310@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <13345684.20080310225922@tlen.pl> <1514710914.20080311204549@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: elf sweat [was: "Defining AU (was..." anymore] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=F4_wkPO_ZEbKX7W_iu04VU8ed5z1rBakg13TFVxIXuMKWelkISU X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> Okay, I didn't get that ... obviously. ;) Argument 'they don't because they don't' is so silly to me that I thought it must be obvious. Also when I use "cuz" "kinda" or any other net words used by kids on dA it's clear to me. I get the as a joke when I see them in posts of others. They could have been serious. There must be definitely some better way to separate jokes from serious text without adding [joke] always, which kills the joke a bit. Damn. And no, I wasn't joking now. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1637 Return-Path: X-Sender: deand12000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14572 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 20:56:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 20:56:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56008.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (216.252.110.187) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 20:56:54 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 89964 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2008 20:56:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: k_xRLvsVM1k21hudOhd8CantX7iP6OxxP_6cYZ5NixQCfn8x8p9XRFwi8cHVX9ei6g-- X-Received: from [165.83.104.199] by web56008.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:56:50 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/902.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.162 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:56:50 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1850164625-1205269010=:60054" Message-ID: <834051.60054.qm@web56008.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dean Rowley Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=114134930; y=xFIXbAP80LYznsZ0yhoWzFHTO0DvRwCgI5KzwdS4AIL5C81D7w X-Yahoo-Profile: deand12000 --0-1850164625-1205269010=:60054 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "What keeps Elves from being merely pretty humans?' "Immortality and fate." What do ears and sex have to do with immortality and fate? What is SEX? This question is not as crazy as it looks. In a culture obsessed with sex, nuances can get lost, but in the stories I wrote recently they matter. To keep things on a simple level that will power and a Teens rating keeps out of the gutter: seexual acts not intended for procreation are usually ignored but are there. I think of Elves as developing a spiritual bond with the opposite sex Elf they want to procreate with and as doing anything that will not '... scare the horses.' with any other Elf who will do it with them. I also think that the perfect human part of the Elf comes out in these acts being done out of true affection, not explotation. What better way to spend eternity than with the knowledge that you will never be truely alone because you will always find a mutually careing relationship that includes physical comfort? As for the Ears, They just look so cool. Dean/Ranger1 ----- Original Message ---- From: Dawn Felagund To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 2:49:32 PM Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control On 3/11/08, Sirielle wrote: > Hmmm, I don't see it as a problem at all. Problem for me is seeing > Quendi the same as mortal beings concerning sex. In the end we get > only humans with pointy ears, nothing more. I think this is only true if you define Elves as Elves based on ears and sex. ;) The question was asked, "What keeps Elves from being merely pretty humans?" I've really enjoyed reading all of the replies to this. (Nice and naughty. ;) I'm with Pandemonium that the canon seems pretty obvious to me (never mind JRRT stating outright in his letters) that Elves and Men were both humans. So where is the difference? Immortality and fate were both brought up and, for me, this is where the difference lies. Not ears, not sex. (Though I like both of these things about Elves too. ;) As has been mentioned already, immortality gives Elves a view on the world entirely different from that of a mortal Man.* Likewise, their differing fates might influence their behavior, particularly among those individuals who are fairly confident of their fate. I see both of these things as resulting in huge differences between Elves and mortal humans so that even if we make everyone's ears the same and remove the sexual mystique from Elven culture, we'll still end up with very different beings, methinks. * From here out, I will use "mortal human" since "mortal Man" (even with a capital M!) is sexist and bugs me. Personally, I think that people get a little too hung up on the sexual aspects of being Elven. This probably reflects our culture to a great degree, where sex is always of concern and always faintly tabboo and, thus, eagerly discussed. Or--to be blunt--we are obsessed with sex. When I worked at a restaurant in my school days, a woman once called to complain that the banana on the side of our delivery truck looked too phallic. Now, I was college-aged and as dirty-minded as one could get, and I never saw a penis on that truck. It was a banana! We are just obsessed with sex; we see it everywhere and probably grant it more importance than it deserves, all things considered. Of all the crazy things I have done in my stories to turn canon on its head, I get the most complaints about the way that I portray my Elves sexually. In AMC, Nelyo "goes to third base" (as we Americans would say; if anyone needs a translation, mail me privately; I'm trying to keep this post at a Teens rating ;) with his girlfriend, and people flipped out! They didn't care that I made Caranthir into a mind-reader or let Rumil be mutilated by Orcs or any number of inventions ... but Nelyo's sexuality made him "un-Elven." It wasn't just a detail of my interpretation. It defined my interpretation. I'm not saying that my way is the only way, of course ... but writing Elves that feel strong sexual desire is certainly defensible canonically, imho, and still allows Elves and mortal humans to be quite separate beings with vastly different world outlooks. Wow ... I intended this to be brief. :^| Back to work! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping --0-1850164625-1205269010=:60054 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

"What keeps Elves from being merely pretty humans?' "Immortality and fate."

What do ears and sex have to do with immortality and fate?

What is SEX?

This question is not as crazy as it looks. In a culture obsessed with sex, nuances can get lost, but in the stories I wrote recently they matter. To keep things on a simple level that will power and a Teens rating keeps out of the gutter: seexual acts not intended for procreation are usually ignored but are there. I think of Elves as developing a spiritual bond with the opposite sex Elf they want to procreate with and as doing anything that will not '... scare the horses.' with any other Elf who will do it with them. I also think that the perfect human part of the Elf comes out in these acts being done out of true affection, not explotation. What better way to spend eternity than with the knowledge that you will never be truely alone because you will always find a mutually careing relationship that includes physical comfort?

 

As for the Ears, They just look so cool.

 

Dean/Ranger1



----- Original Message ----
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 2:49:32 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control

On 3/11/08, Sirielle <sirielle@tlen. pl> wrote:
> Hmmm, I don't see it as a problem at all. Problem for me is seeing
> Quendi the same as mortal beings concerning sex. In the end we get
> only humans with pointy ears, nothing more.

I think this is only true if you define Elves as Elves based on ears and sex. ;)
 
The question was asked, "What keeps Elves from being merely pretty humans?" I've really enjoyed reading all of the replies to this. (Nice and naughty. ;) I'm with Pandemonium that the canon seems pretty obvious to me (never mind JRRT stating outright in his letters) that Elves and Men were both humans. So where is the difference?
 
Immortality and fate were both brought up and, for me, this is where the difference lies. Not ears, not sex. (Though I like both of these things about Elves too. ;) As has been mentioned already, immortality gives Elves a view on the world entirely different from that of a mortal Man.* Likewise, their differing fates might influence their behavior, particularly among those individuals who are fairly confident of their fate. I see both of these things as resulting in huge differences between Elves and mortal humans so that even if we make everyone's ears the same and remove the sexual mystique from Elven culture, we'll still end up with very different beings, methinks.
 
* From here out, I will use "mortal human" since "mortal Man" (even with a capital M!) is sexist and bugs me.
 
Personally, I think that people get a little too hung up on the sexual aspects of being Elven. This probably reflects our culture to a great degree, where sex is always of concern and always faintly tabboo and, thus, eagerly discussed. Or--to be blunt--we are obsessed with sex. When I worked at a restaurant in my school days, a woman once called to complain that the banana on the side of our delivery truck looked too phallic. Now, I was college-aged and as dirty-minded as one could get, and I never saw a penis on that truck. It was a banana! We are just obsessed with sex; we see it everywhere and probably grant it more importance than it deserves, all things considered.
 
Of all the crazy things I have done in my stories to turn canon on its head, I get the most complaints about the way that I portray my Elves sexually. In AMC, Nelyo "goes to third base" (as we Americans would say; if anyone needs a translation, mail me privately; I'm trying to keep this post at a Teens rating ;) with his girlfriend, and people flipped out! They didn't care that I made Caranthir into a mind-reader or let Rumil be mutilated by Orcs or any number of inventions ... but Nelyo's sexuality made him "un-Elven." It wasn't just a detail of my interpretation. It defined my interpretation.
 
I'm not saying that my way is the only way, of course ... but writing Elves that feel strong sexual desire is certainly defensible canonically, imho, and still allows Elves and mortal humans to be quite separate beings with vastly different world outlooks.
 
Wow ... I intended this to be brief. :^|
 
Back to work!
 
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org


Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1850164625-1205269010=:60054-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1638 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11922 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 21:38:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 21:38:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n25b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.238) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 21:38:06 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 21:38:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 21:38:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 21:38:06 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:38:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47D655F3.9020704@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=4Hi7LGr9OTRgrzKPPWm7V9aEavin2fbHEO6-SHunAwtJQ8o X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Rhapsody = wrote: > LOL It makes you wonder if F=EBanor ever claimed a patent over h= is works ;) > > Rhapsody > (wove in a bit of on topicness) > Nah - I rea= lly don't see him putting up with the paperwork ;D From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1639 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92795 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 21:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 21:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 21:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d60.22c5b35b (37141) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:52:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M06 (mblk-m06.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.39]) by cia-ma03.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA033-911547d6ff283c; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:52:40 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:52:39 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA51D95C7465A0_740_8BAE_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 35304-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.39) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:52:39 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA51D95C6ADC48-740-45AB@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=0o9UMKbK39yHwZbxxeU4T0M-diiE5TtKJ0P-9bGbw-Ox_1-XqRoW X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA51D95C7465A0_740_8BAE_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Nah - I really don't see him putting up with the paperwork ;D Totally agr= ee. Or he would argue that it would be patently unnecessary since no one el= se could possibly be clever enough. -----Original Message----- From: more= th00 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent:= Tue, 11 Mar 2008 5:38 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros = and Mahtan --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Rhapsody = wrote: > LOL It makes you wonder if F=C3=ABanor ever cla= imed a patent over his works ;) > > Rhapsody > (wove in a bit of on topic= ness) > Nah - I really don't see him putting up with the paperwork ;D = ----------MB_8CA51D95C7465A0_740_8BAE_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
= Nah - I really don't see him putting up with the paperwork ;D
T= otally agree. Or he would argue that it would be patently unnecessary since= no one else could possibly be clever enough.


-----Original M= essage-----
From: moreth00
To: Silmarilli= onWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 5:38 pm
Subje= ct: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan

--- = In Silmarilli= onWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Rhapsody
...> wrote:

> LOL It makes you wonder if F=C3=ABanor ev= er claimed a patent over his
works ;)
>
> Rhapsody
= > (wove in a bit of on topicness)
>

Nah - I really don't= see him putting up with the paperwork ;D

Supercharge your AIM. Get= the AIM toolbar for your browser.=
----------MB_8CA51D95C7465A0_740_8BAE_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1640 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13574 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 22:02:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 22:02:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.131) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 22:02:36 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 22:02:36 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 22:02:36 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 22:02:36 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:02:35 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8CA51D95C6ADC48-740-45AB@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=M4X7HxWF9GnYfAYIwVEXl6VNfA5gFQstXKMvTvgujtajWCs X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >= Totally agree. Or he would argue that it would be patently unnecessary si= nce no one else could possibly be clever enough. > > Arrrrghh!!! That is= really very bad indeed! ROTF... /Spanks Oshun for bad jokes... Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1641 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63411 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 22:17:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 22:17:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 22:17:58 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bd4.294a847f (37553) for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:17:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M06 (mblk-m06.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.39]) by cia-mb03.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB032-92b147d704f2a4; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:17:22 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:17:21 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA51DCCFB2C9F0_740_8E67_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 35304-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.39) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:17:21 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA51DCCFA94098-740-4702@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=xWkxATNNPat-oxTxwzxpN2Uz1KP-FkAhkfUsasZtGZTLhB5JTFHb X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA51DCCFB2C9F0_740_8E67_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Arrrrghh!!! That is really very bad indeed! ROTF... /Spanks Oshun for bad jokes... I'll take that as a compliment, if you don't mind. -----Original Message----- From: moreth00 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 6:02 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > Totally agree. Or he would argue that it would be patently unnecessary since no one else could possibly be clever enough. > > Arrrrghh!!! That is really very bad indeed! ROTF... /Spanks Oshun for bad jokes... Moreth ----------MB_8CA51DCCFB2C9F0_740_8E67_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Arrrrghh!!! That is really very bad indeed! ROTF... /Spanks Oshun for
bad jokes...

I'll take that as a compliment, if you don't mind.


-----Original Message-----
From: moreth00
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 6:02 pm
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Maedhros and Mahtan

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote:

> Totally agree. Or he would argue that it would be patently
unnecessary since no one else could possibly be clever enough.
>
>

Arrrrghh!!! That is really very bad indeed! ROTF... /Spanks Oshun for
bad jokes...

Moreth

----------MB_8CA51DCCFB2C9F0_740_8E67_MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1642 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70870 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2008 23:17:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2008 23:17:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.249) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2008 23:17:09 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n29.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 23:17:09 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 23:17:09 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2008 23:17:09 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:17:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8CA51DCCFA94098-740-4702@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Maedhros and Mahtan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=uKtBOVRnCERs6LTKE1IEb8LqAD0ywS6qUGW_t-sdWNqCleg X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > > Arrrrghh!!! That is really very bad indeed! ROTF... /Spanks Oshun f= or > bad jokes... > > > I'll take that as a compliment, if you don't min= d. > > You're welcome... /still sniggering :P From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1643 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16033 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2008 01:16:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2008 01:16:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.225) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2008 01:16:03 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c53so1716244wra.20 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:16:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.169.2 with SMTP id r2mr6267779wae.118.1205284561532; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:16:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:16:01 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:31:09 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_22422_16757572.1205443869885" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Writing Story Summaries X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mjswTbYcg-rlRaKaqWlSF2XABC7P0OcC-wxq-311A5P6oi-aUn2B X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_22422_16757572.1205443869885-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1645 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9051 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2008 03:20:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2008 03:20:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2008 03:20:37 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id v27so4313708wah.23 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:20:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.79.1 with SMTP id g1mr10844679wal.43.1205464837368; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:20:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:20:37 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23829_17803199.1205464837352" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month :: Rivalry X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=GtgCrBVMMZMkwqaje7LRdXfCOgFxEFHdWPt1JYWFFL4hTZsgYKgr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_23829_17803199.1205464837352-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1646 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23397 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2008 01:57:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2008 01:57:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2008 01:57:52 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id v27so6124492wah.4 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:57:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.75.1 with SMTP id c1mr16730166wal.114.1205719072483; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:57:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:57:52 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9270_30920474.1205719072499" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month :: Love X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Btm495JBFnv4TNht21stZgX5-rDb-AqmglA_ndDBGlzvLEsagfu4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_9270_30920474.1205719072499-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1647 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16586 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2008 01:09:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2008 01:09:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.176) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2008 01:09:40 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a29so237795pyi.0 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:09:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.175.16 with SMTP id x16mr249192wae.116.1205888979737; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:09:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:09:39 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_22521_9836181.1205888979713" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month :: Friendship X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=PUIiYHcOSkxZQuHNeUU4BNOMzxWBhVg4HfxANAKEdohmol7Ov2bq X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_22521_9836181.1205888979713-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1648 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59553 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2008 02:50:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2008 02:50:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.176) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2008 02:50:36 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so1258219wah.15 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:50:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.151.13 with SMTP id y13mr4865736wad.145.1206067836730; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:50:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:50:36 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6127_14683713.1206067836725" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month :: Allegiance X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MpLLdvK51eU9KRSCAFju3fDOJ5UfQ7mXGpHFzTHwx1BLbh7hzHVJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_6127_14683713.1206067836725-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1649 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24745 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2008 20:35:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2008 20:35:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2008 20:35:26 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 77425 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2008 20:35:22 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 277bDgIVM1m1VHczcd0fZABKriBFEn_iUO_VosSl24HyQQ7V6pcJ9KjCTuO3P1VjmsowANRRVS85ysV5qSdryBes9cgeIeI5bFFVOeLiGyagialHL.ai7uquOuwacA-- X-Received: from [98.16.40.49] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 13:35:22 PDT Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 13:35:22 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-346805159-1206218122=:77282" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <738731.77282.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: SIte down? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=b87ieI-C0Y7r5wIiilepz-rFwH-QFFfjqOqDbG2-QBrg-27NqA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-346805159-1206218122=:77282 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is anyone else having a problem getting into the Archive? I'm getting this when I click Archive - Internal Server Error The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request. Please contact the server administrator, webmaster@silmarillionwritersguild.org and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error. More information about this error may be available in the server error log. Additionally, a 500 Internal Server Error error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. --------------------------------- Apache/2.2.8 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.8 OpenSSL/0.9.8g DAV/2 mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 Server at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org Port 80 ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-346805159-1206218122=:77282 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is anyone else having a problem getting into the Archive? I'm getting this when I click Archive -

Internal Server Error

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, webmaster@silmarillionwritersguild.org and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
Additionally, a 500 Internal Server Error error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache/2.2.8 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.8 OpenSSL/0.9.8g DAV/2 mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 Server at www.silmarillionwritersguild.org Port 80



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --0-346805159-1206218122=:77282-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1650 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83492 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2008 20:48:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2008 20:48:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.102.100) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2008 20:48:15 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.90] by n17.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2008 20:48:15 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2008 20:48:15 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2008 20:48:14 -0000 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:48:13 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <738731.77282.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: SIte down? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=tshc3NwEPKoEU6vofrAsu0SvoknpZW7SQm_3sPRXdIqczsk X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 wrote: > > Is anyone else having a problem getting into th= e Archive? I'm getting this when I click Archive - > > Internal Server E= rror The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was = unable to complete your request...> Hi Alassante, Looks fine to me (for w= hat it's worth)... Hope it sorts for you, Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1651 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95669 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2008 20:54:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2008 20:54:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2008 20:54:51 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 89563 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2008 20:54:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: tkYKHOIVM1lfdv.NsTtPlPMiNcCLhXaqfBZNU73_nxoEdyFzuv2Hw98zHkY4G5FpcQ-- X-Received: from [98.16.40.49] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 13:54:47 PDT Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 13:54:47 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1047724447-1206219287=:89253" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <763002.89253.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: SIte down? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=eGz39Mwl7TxC3bG2c7-VqIpLw4Wxgv5j3liRyoAACo4baLSkdA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1047724447-1206219287=:89253 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oh well - its working now. Don't know what it was. moreth00 wrote: wrote: > > Is anyone else having a problem getting into the Archive? I'm getting this when I click Archive - > > Internal Server Error The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request...> Hi Alassante, Looks fine to me (for what it's worth)... Hope it sorts for you, Moreth ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1047724447-1206219287=:89253 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oh well - its working now. Don't know what it was.

moreth00 wrote:
...> wrote:
>
> Is anyone else having a problem getting into the Archive? I'm getting
this when I click Archive -
>
> Internal Server Error The server encountered an internal error or
misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request...>

Hi Alassante,

Looks fine to me (for what it's worth)...

Hope it sorts for you,

Moreth




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --0-1047724447-1206219287=:89253-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1652 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77353 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2008 22:31:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2008 22:31:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.176) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2008 22:31:37 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so3383345waf.14 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:31:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.150.1 with SMTP id x1mr8766357wad.46.1206225097423; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:31:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:31:37 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <763002.89253.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5336_33080364.1206225097422" References: <763002.89253.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: SIte down? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-062tCm3AphW0VKHiimkawQwLIs4Mlx-TRpUYACHBZG6zaMsBu42 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_5336_33080364.1206225097422-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1653 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88701 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2008 22:33:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2008 22:33:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2008 22:33:04 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 87127 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2008 22:33:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: I8gj0PgVM1kXwITyoqeeqZgsyDAkq5flyu7r8.OC X-Received: from [98.16.40.49] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:33:00 PDT Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:33:00 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1897808253-1206225180=:86168" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <81072.86168.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: SIte down? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=Bp44d0bydDNYF-9F9NRuf5EYQaBOiJAlSAvHx_UrQup-NpMbTg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1897808253-1206225180=:86168 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The main page came up fine but the Archive link was the error but its fine now. Dawn Felagund wrote: I have no idea what it was either! I expect that the BlueHost server might have gone down momentarily. Sometimes I get that error when I try to use circumventor sites at work (bad? me?? nooooo ...), and I have been told that it is because of a high volume of traffic on the site. But I doubt that's a problem for us. :^P Regardless, thanks for letting us know of the problem; we'll keep an eye on it! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1897808253-1206225180=:86168 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The main page came up fine but the Archive link was the error but its fine now.

Dawn Felagund wrote:
I have no idea what it was either! I expect that the BlueHost server might have gone down momentarily. Sometimes I get that error when I try to use circumventor sites at work (bad? me?? nooooo ...), and I have been told that it is because of a high volume of traffic on the site. But I doubt that's a problem for us. :^P

Regardless, thanks for letting us know of the problem; we'll keep an eye on it! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1897808253-1206225180=:86168-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1654 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58967 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2008 02:43:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2008 02:43:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2008 02:43:06 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j32so2200191waf.19 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 19:43:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.106.1 with SMTP id e1mr8977093wac.95.1206240186735; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 19:43:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 19:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:43:06 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <81072.86168.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5735_10539445.1206240186732" References: <81072.86168.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: SIte down? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=me3vPT-0y1j_Vl6Q4aFSFhWcto1qxxD4fHJ4xL_oviFGs1-sgih6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_5735_10539445.1206240186732-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1655 Return-Path: X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23686 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2008 03:29:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2008 03:29:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s21.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.157) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2008 03:29:16 -0000 X-Received: from BAY106-W5 ([65.54.161.105]) by bay0-omc2-s21.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:28:46 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: jilba25@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_8a91fded-dba1-44af-9cfc-8d7bc2e85c83_" To: Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 14:28:46 +1100 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <155503.33898.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47D69550.90503@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2008 03:28:46.0554 (UTC) FILETIME=[00BEB3A0:01C88C96] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jillian Baade Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7317848; y=lU5Yfuqvdc-PEerbexbBv9zR_nooFZltL9nRo4jheP2sbht2 X-Yahoo-Profile: jilba25au --_8a91fded-dba1-44af-9cfc-8d7bc2e85c83_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think elves could 'divorce' if, like Finwe and Miriel, they made a decis= ion to never consider themselves as married to each other again. Though Mi= riel eventually came back to life, once Finwe died, I think if they were bo= th alive again, he'd be married to Indis, and Miriel would free to remarry = if she wished. This kind of situation, especially for elves living in Aman = would be rare, naturally! Elves living Middle-earth could be more incline= d to divorce, or to remarry after a spouse's death. There, they don't have = the Valar watching them so closely, also, with elves more likely to die in = M-E I think they would have a greater need to breed and keep up their popul= ation numbers. This I think would hold for the Avari particularly. LACE i= s a document, in my opinion, which governs how elves (or maybe just the Nol= dor) are MEANT to behave. As the Noldor do many other things they aren't me= ant to, like kinslayings and revolt, I expect a large number of elves simpl= y did as they wished and ignored LACE. Jillian To: SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroups.comFrom: DawnFelagund@gmail.comDate: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:= 33:49 -0400Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control On 3/11= /08, Rhapsody wrote: > Even in our worlds wifes chos= e not to go with their men: some go to war, > some leave home for a long ti= me because of their profession. Is it hard > to imagine that despite being = parted from your partner for a long time, > they still remain faithful? I= 'd say that it depends on the couple. There are some couples that I think= of as being divorced. The spouses have made a conscious choice to separate= ; they have put other matters above the continuation of their marriage. Cur= ufin and his unnamed wife are a couple that I think of like this. (Personal= opinion and interpretation, of course ... though I'd imagine that Alassant= e at least shares my interpretation here. ;) Then there are couples--Elwi= ng and Earendil being a great example--who I can't think of as being divorc= ed, even if they are parted for a long while. These I can imagine being fai= thful, even across long separations. I think that part of the problem com= es with the term divorce. It is a loaded term in our culture, surrounded by= negative connotations for some and legal connotations for others. But woul= d most of these be relevant for Elves? A lot of the negative connotations c= ome from the breaking of families, especially those with small children. Fo= r Elves like Feanor and Nerdanel who "divorce" when their children are grow= n, this is not so much an issue. And would Elves have a concept of legal = marriage? I will look at this closer, too, when I reread L&C, hopefully thi= s afternoon. :) Now, I have a criminal being a pain, so I have to get bac= k to work. That might be my oddest sign-off on this group ever. :) Dawn = -- ~oOo~Dawn Felagundwww.silmarillionwritersguild.org __________________= _______________________________________________ Get MOTORAZR MAXX V6 now $2= 49 on Next G=99 Pre-Paid http://clk.atdmt.com/OAT/go/nnmsntel0690000034oat/= direct/01/ --_8a91fded-dba1-44af-9cfc-8d7bc2e85c83_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think elves could 'divorce' if, like Finwe and Miriel, they m= ade a decision to never consider themselves as married to each other again.=   Though Miriel eventually came back to life, once Finwe died, I think= if they were both alive again, he'd be married to Indis, and Miriel would = free to remarry if she wished. This kind of situation, especially for elves= living in Aman would be rare, naturally!
 
Elves living Middl= e-earth could be more inclined to divorce, or to remarry after a spouse's d= eath. There, they don't have the Valar watching them so closely, also, with= elves more likely to die in M-E I think they would have a greater need to = breed and keep up their population numbers. This I think would hold for the= Avari particularly.
 
LACE is a document, in my opinion, whic= h governs how elves (or maybe just the Noldor) are MEANT to behave. As the = Noldor do many other things they aren't meant to, like kinslayings and revo= lt, I expect a large number of elves simply did as they wished and ignored = LACE.
 
Jillian


To: Silmarillio= nWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
From: DawnFelagund@gmail.com
Date: Tue,= 11 Mar 2008 10:33:49 -0400
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birt= h control

.ExternalClass #EC_ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Ari= al;padding:0px 14px;} .ExternalClass #EC_ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d= 8d8;} .ExternalClass #EC_ygrp-mkp #EC_hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-= weight:bold;line-height:122%;} .ExternalClass #EC_ygrp-mkp #EC_ads {margin-= bottom:10px;} .ExternalClass #EC_ygrp-mkp .EC_ad {padding:0 0;} .ExternalCl= ass #EC_ygrp-mkp .EC_ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} =
On 3/11/08, Rhapsody <rhapsody74@gmail= .com> wrote:
> Eve= n in our worlds wifes chose not to go with their men: some go to war,
&= gt; some leave home for a long time because of their profession. Is it hard=
> to imagine that despite being parted from your partner for a long= time,
> they still remain faithful?
 
I'd= say that it depends on the couple.
 
There are som= e couples that I think of as being divorced. The spouses have made a consci= ous choice to separate; they have put other matters above the continuation = of their marriage. Curufin and his unnamed wife are a couple that I think o= f like this. (Personal opinion and interpretation, of course ... though I'd= imagine that Alassante at least shares my interpretation here. ;)
 
Then there are couples--Elwing and Earendil being a great= example--who I can't think of as being divorced, even if they are parted f= or a long while. These I can imagine being faithful, even across l= ong separations.
&nbs= p;
I think that part of the problem= comes with the term divorce. It is a loaded term in our culture, = surrounded by negative connotations for some and legal connotations for oth= ers. But would most of these be relevant for Elves? A lot of the negative c= onnotations come from the breaking of families, especially those with small= children. For Elves like Feanor and Nerdanel who "divorce" when their chil= dren are grown, this is not so much an issue.
 
And= would Elves have a concept of legal marriage? I will look at this closer, = too, when I reread L&C, hopefully this afternoon. :)
=  
Now, I have a criminal being a pain, so I have to get back to work.= That might be my oddest sign-off on this group ever. :)
=  
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund=
ww= w.silmarillionwritersguild.org

Click here Get MOTORAZR MAXX V6 n= ow $249 on Next G=99 Pre-Paid --_8a91fded-dba1-44af-9cfc-8d7bc2e85c83_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1656 Return-Path: X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62716 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2008 03:33:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2008 03:33:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s11.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.147) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2008 03:33:44 -0000 X-Received: from BAY106-W29 ([65.54.161.129]) by bay0-omc2-s11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:32:55 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: jilba25@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_c18b1980-2e76-4559-a8d7-148c9787734b_" To: Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 14:32:55 +1100 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <858459.97621.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <742355.33137.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <858459.97621.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2008 03:32:55.0559 (UTC) FILETIME=[9529D970:01C88C96] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jillian Baade Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7317848; y=sYhZ3iZLM40WLqozUWKc_WSj_UPVJVIkQqgO1Lx0EobB2BRP X-Yahoo-Profile: jilba25au --_c18b1980-2e76-4559-a8d7-148c9787734b_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> From: spacellamaprincess@y= ahoo.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:28:49 -0700> Subject: Re: [Silmarillion= WritersGuild] birth control> > I'm with you on that. And the thought of tho= se> gorgeous elves having no sex for centuries terrifies> me as well. But t= hen I think: They, having lives the> length of Arda, have a totally differe= nt concept of> time than we do. A century to them might feel like a> day to= us (well probably not that severe, but you get> what I mean). When you thi= nk of some of their life> spans in Middle-earth (especially that ol' gal> G= aladriel), the mind boggles. I doubt seriously she> would have been as bumm= ed about a bad day the way I am> sometimes :)> > > viv> Dunno, Viv. I guess= it depends on the bad day, and how it will flow on, or not! I still think = that elves had a lot more sex than we think from reading Tolkien. They coul= d just choose when to have their kids! Jillian _________________________= ________________________________________ Fashion, beauty, health, relations= hip advice and horoscopes. http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mo= de=3Dclick&clientID=3D873&referral=3DMarchHotmailTagline&URL=3Dhttp://lifes= tyle.ninemsn.com.au/?ocid=3DT003HOT40A0710G --_c18b1980-2e76-4559-a8d7-148c9787734b_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
&g= t; From: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:28:= 49 -0700
> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] birth control
&= gt;
> I'm with you on that. And the thought of those
> gorgeou= s elves having no sex for centuries terrifies
> me as well. But then = I think: They, having lives the
> length of Arda, have a totally diff= erent concept of
> time than we do. A century to them might feel like= a
> day to us (well probably not that severe, but you get
> wh= at I mean). When you think of some of their life
> spans in Middle-ea= rth (especially that ol' gal
> Galadriel), the mind boggles. I doubt = seriously she
> would have been as bummed about a bad day the way I a= m
> sometimes :)
>
>
> viv
>
Dunno, Viv= . I guess it depends on the bad day, and how it will flow on, or not! I sti= ll think that elves had a lot more sex than we think from reading Tolkien. = They could just choose when to have their kids!
 
Jillian
=

Click here Fas= hion, beauty, health, relationship advice and horoscopes. --_c18b1980-2e76-4559-a8d7-148c9787734b_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1657 Return-Path: X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96864 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2008 03:58:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2008 03:58:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s18.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.154) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2008 03:58:16 -0000 X-Received: from BAY106-W25 ([65.54.161.125]) by bay0-omc2-s18.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:56:37 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: jilba25@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_c635bfe3-ddce-4b93-a0f8-524fb62c41fa_" To: Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 14:56:37 +1100 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <252886913.20080311004442@tlen.pl> References: <294247655.20080310231045@tlen.pl> <252886913.20080311004442@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2008 03:56:37.0053 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4709ED0:01C88C99] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jillian Baade Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7317848; y=cXuGsMmHJWAkkNY-1d9m5_BRpK-pUIMOtkVPYdLtKPzq7Obx X-Yahoo-Profile: jilba25au --_c635bfe3-ddce-4b93-a0f8-524fb62c41fa_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> From: sirielle@tlen.pl> Da= te: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:44:42 +0100> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild= ] Re:at what point do Elves stop being beautiful humans?> > Ai Moreth,> > >= > I would be glad to know the answer. We all imagine them so> >> differentl= y and most of us still see them as not humans, but what is> >> the real dif= ference? Is it really visible? (Forgetting the light of> >> Aman factor of = Aman Refugees.)> >> > I read a fic once, I think Finch wrote it, and when A= ndreth first meets Aegnor, she thinks he's another mortal for a couple of m= inutes. Daylight and all, his light of Aman might not have been that easy f= or a mortal to see. > m> ... and that is what I like about all you guys :) = If my elves sweat,> m> pee... (and anything else) you may not *prefer* that= , but you won't> m> freak out! If my elves don't sweat, are zen masters and= very focussed> m> on inner understanding - that's cool too :D> > Ahhh, I t= hink you understand my post in some different, but very nice way. I> was re= ally asking what do you think is the difference, though yes -> I'll accept = your elves being different from mine :)> Probably ;)> Ok, I'll do XD> > Com= ing back to the question - is there really anything we might point> what ma= kes that difference?> > What makes them different from beautiful humans?> >= Books mention eyes, height, beauty.> Height, yes. I wouldn't say necessar= ily physical strength, but they'd be more agile. More in tune with nature t= oo, and animals. Beauty..well...maybe. Maybe not. I've had the discussion b= efore where the average elf isn't really all that beautiful, but they don't= age, their skin is perfect, shiny hair, glowing eyes, they probably seem m= ore beautiful to us. Jillian http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=3Dhttp%3A%= 2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dni= nemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30290&_t=3D764581033&_r=3De= mail_taglines_Search_OCT07&_m=3DEXT --_c635bfe3-ddce-4b93-a0f8-524fb62c41fa_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
&g= t; From: sirielle@tlen.pl
> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:44:42 +0100
= > Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:at what point do Elves stop= being beautiful humans?
>
> Ai Moreth,
>
> >&= gt; I would be glad to know the answer. We all imagine them so
> >= > differently and most of us still see them as not humans, but what is> >> the real difference? Is it really visible? (Forgetting the = light of
> >> Aman factor of Aman Refugees.)
> >> <= BR>> I read a fic once, I think Finch wrote it, and when Andreth first m= eets Aegnor, she thinks he's another mortal for a couple of minutes. Daylig= ht and all, his light of Aman might not have been that easy for a mortal to= see.

> m> ... and that is what I like about all you guys :) = If my elves sweat,
> m> pee... (and anything else) you may not *pr= efer* that, but you won't
> m> freak out! If my elves don't sweat,= are zen masters and very focussed
> m> on inner understanding - t= hat's cool too :D
>
> Ahhh, I think you understand my post in = some different, but very nice way. I
> was really asking what do you = think is the difference, though yes -
> I'll accept your elves being = different from mine :)
> Probably ;)
> Ok, I'll do XD
> <= BR>> Coming back to the question - is there really anything we might poi= nt
> what makes that difference?
>
> What makes them dif= ferent from beautiful humans?
>
> Books mention eyes, height, = beauty.
>
Height, yes. I wouldn't say necessarily physical stren= gth, but they'd be more agile. More in tune with nature too, and animals. B= eauty..well...maybe. Maybe not. I've had the discussion before where the av= erage elf isn't really all that beautiful, but they don't age, their skin i= s perfect, shiny hair, glowing eyes, they probably seem more beautiful to u= s.

Jillian

> Everyone sees beauty differently, so hard = to say anything. But I liked
> one description from a fan fic by Kasi= opea where young Haleth
> sees Noldor for the first time. From rememb= rance - she suddenly finds herself clumsy and
> ugly compared with th= em, while they seem to be such beautiful that
> it's painful too look= at them (and imagine her own lack of beauty in
> comparison). I woul= d need to look up that line, there was more about
> the Eldar, I real= ly liked that. Her Eldar are more than beauty, but that painful
> rec= eption with realization how imperfect the beholder is got stuck in my
&g= t; head.
>
>
> [Let's leave the question of pointy ears= aside, open, it should not
> matter. If one needs pointy ears to be = an elf, then they are just a
> human with pointy ears, nothing more.]=
>
>
> Suilad,
> Sirielle
>
> sirie= lle@tlen.pl
> http://www.isle.px.pl
> http://sirielle.cgsociety= .org/gallery/
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Lin= ks
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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boundary="----=_Part_8670_16892904.1206328226215" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:2:2:0:1 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month :: Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8-RvzrgEvlvQl7yqAOtvhrNwK0jDTP5bHYTC_7NNI2lME3xiiBaB X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_8670_16892904.1206328226215-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1659 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22013 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2008 02:19:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2008 02:19:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.238) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2008 02:19:02 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c37so2885263wra.25 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:19:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.146.1 with SMTP id t1mr14612932wad.20.1206497940596; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:19:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; 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Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:36:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.192.1 with SMTP id p1mr2784646waf.47.1206664612125; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:36:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:36:52 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_28506_22535278.1206664612119" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month :: Parting X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=OhLyYT_rZXarg9CV4GCztWIVt1HdIw4yriTp5MzGriISh-OVsTUR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_28506_22535278.1206664612119-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1664 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53505 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2008 00:46:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Mar 2008 00:46:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.242) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2008 00:46:35 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 55so1079490hsc.10 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:46:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.78.1 with SMTP id a1mr8904423wab.36.1206924394390; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:46:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:46:34 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10994_31822786.1206924394383" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month :: Fate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=9u7MBICNS2JD5eHYpZgGBFR8c14pzTGoNw9YY1XXPB-DldBcznYy X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_10994_31822786.1206924394383-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1665 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81412 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2008 22:18:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Apr 2008 22:18:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2008 22:18:13 -0000 X-Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cd9.2a56253e (42809) for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:18:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:18:04 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1208038684" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5018 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Website Error? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=KFopSpz6goU7_rAIddQ8QxtlSyrqqug54bKEf02jxmhb-sNY-g X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth -------------------------------1208038684 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Did anyone have trouble accessing the SWG website sometime this day? It worked fine for me an hour ago, but when I went back just now, clicked on the archive link, and got 'FATALERROR _NOTCONNECTED' on a white page as the only thing there was. Closed the window, tried to reload website, and didn't even get to the main page this time, Firefox just gave me a timeout error. Been trying to reload for the last 15 or so minutes. Could it be that the server went down? Here's hoping that this is just Maeglin the computer being his usual grumpy self, but I thought I'd ask. - Elleth -------------------------------1208038684 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Hi,
 <= /DIV>
Did anyone have trouble accessing the SWG website sometime this = day? It worked fine for me an hour ago, but when I went back just now,&nbs= p;clicked on the archive link, and got 'FATALERROR _NOTCONNECTED' on a whi= te page as the only thing there was. Closed the window, tried to reload we= bsite, and didn't even get to the main page this time, Firefox just gave m= e a timeout error. Been trying to reload for the last 15 or so minutes. Co= uld it be that the server went down?
 
Here's h= oping that this is just Maeglin the computer being his usual grumpy self, = but I thought I'd ask.
 
- Elleth
-------------------------------1208038684-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1666 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6180 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2008 00:18:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2008 00:18:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.180) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2008 00:18:30 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m28so1207806wag.13 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:18:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.144.1 with SMTP id r1mr5204416wad.135.1208045910760; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:18:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 20:18:30 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_31768_9785750.1208045910745" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Website Error? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=BGG13tXt-CGyWoe-N9AtjUqZEv3yqByDvKjkVln7BJZ2pKASySsJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_31768_9785750.1208045910745-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1667 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10238 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 18:53:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 18:53:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.122) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 18:53:30 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 18:53:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 18:53:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 18:53:30 -0000 X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87253 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 14:51:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 14:51:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 14:51:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 14:51:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 14:51:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:51:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "gwidhiel" Subject: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=JacwyeGYWc3yqmJPNDrgm84CFdiHTqoNtTT73yH6mNQvqW4 X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel X-eGroups-Approved-By: tarion_anarore via web; 14 Apr 2008 18:53:29 -0000 Hello, everyone! I just joined this group, at the suggestion of Marta. I'= ve been a long-time reader of Tolkien fan fiction, and have enjoyed many of= the stories authors in this group have published. Before I took a pen nam= e, I used to just sign my reviews with my real name, Rebecca. ... And ... = I've been working on my first-ever piece of fiction, which I've posted at t= he Silmarillion Writers' Guild. It's called, "Don't Explain," and it deals= with how Finw=EB's second wife, Indis, might have tried to set things righ= t in her family, long after Finw=EB's death. It's not finished, although I= 'm hoping to complete it pretty soon. If you're interested, find it here: = http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D3= 14 Insofar as it's possible to adhere to canon when dealing with the messy= marriages of Finw=EB, I've tried to do so, but obviously have taken a lot = of creative license to develop characters who were little more than named = by Tolkien. In fact, one of the main characters of my story is Findis, Ind= is and Finw=EB's first child and eldest daughter -- but she doesn't even ap= pear as a character option in either of the two story archives I've posted = the story on! I'm very open to corrections & suggestions, if you care to s= hare any! Many thanks! -Gwidhiel From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1668 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8480 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 19:21:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 19:21:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 19:21:33 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 27931 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2008 19:21:30 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: jBQdlvgVM1mbueeYDV8_8By0rDYUi6r2rQW8PL2Y X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:21:30 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:21:30 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1258649204-1208200890=:26345" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <289533.26345.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=36-VbF0WXydi6oOTCunQS_nw-oft9SqDBQsCgiIbp4dyzlVxdA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1258649204-1208200890=:26345 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Welcome to the group. Any fan of the house of Finwe is cool with me lol Most of what I've written that is Silm based is the House of Finwe - usually on down the line to the Feanorians though. I never knew that Finwe had a daughter? Which HoME book is that from or is that your OFC? I'm not as HoME versed as a lot of those on here so I might have just missed that in what I've read so far. gwidhiel wrote: Hello, everyone! I just joined this group, at the suggestion of Marta. I've been a long-time reader of Tolkien fan fiction, and have enjoyed many of the stories authors in this group have published. Before I took a pen name, I used to just sign my reviews with my real name, Rebecca. ... And ... I've been working on my first-ever piece of fiction, which I've posted at the Silmarillion Writers' Guild. It's called, "Don't Explain," and it deals with how Finw�'s second wife, Indis, might have tried to set things right in her family, long after Finw�'s death. It's not finished, although I'm hoping to complete it pretty soon. If you're interested, find it here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=314 Insofar as it's possible to adhere to canon when dealing with the messy marriages of Finw�, I've tried to do so, but obviously have taken a lot of creative license to develop characters who were little more than named by Tolkien. In fact, one of the main characters of my story is Findis, Indis and Finw�'s first child and eldest daughter -- but she doesn't even appear as a character option in either of the two story archives I've posted the story on! I'm very open to corrections & suggestions, if you care to share any! Many thanks! -Gwidhiel ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --0-1258649204-1208200890=:26345 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Welcome to the group. Any fan of the house of Finwe is cool with me lol Most of what I've written that is Silm based is the House of Finwe - usually on down the line to the Feanorians though.
 
I never knew that Finwe had a daughter? Which HoME book is that from or is that your OFC? I'm not as HoME versed as a lot of those on here so I might have just missed that in what I've read so far.
 

gwidhiel wrote:
Hello, everyone! I just joined this group, at the suggestion of
Marta. I've been a long-time reader of Tolkien fan fiction, and have
enjoyed many of the stories authors in this group have published.
Before I took a pen name, I used to just sign my reviews with my real
name, Rebecca.

... And ... I've been working on my first-ever piece of fiction, which
I've posted at the Silmarillion Writers' Guild. It's called, "Don't
Explain," and it deals with how Finw�'s second wife, Indis, might have
tried to set things right in her family, long after Finw�'s death.
It's not finished, although I'm hoping to complete it pretty soon. If
you're interested, find it here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=314

Insofar as it's possible to adhere to canon when dealing with the
messy marriages of Finw�, I've tried to do so, but obviously have
taken a lot of creative license to develop characters who were little
more than named by Tolkien. In fact, one of the main characters of
my story is Findis, Indis and Finw�'s first child and eldest daughter
-- but she doesn't even appear as a character option in either of the
two story archives I've posted the story on!

I'm very open to corrections & suggestions, if you care to share any!

Many thanks!

-Gwidhiel




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

  --0-1258649204-1208200890=:26345-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1669 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 86261 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 19:35:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 19:35:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.214) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 19:35:31 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n33.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 19:35:31 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 19:35:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 19:35:30 -0000 X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28590 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 19:34:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 19:34:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 19:34:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 19:34:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 19:34:24 -0000 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:34:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <289533.26345.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "gwidhiel" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=JqoP0EPIbN8vBTDJqM2oSyhE5mNwihaqxXrNmLYeC1X7xC8 X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel X-eGroups-Approved-By: tarion_anarore via web; 14 Apr 2008 19:35:30 -0000 Hi, Alassanate7, I'm pretty sure it's in "The Shibboleth of F=EBanor" in H= oME. http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Findis --- In SilmarillionWritersGui= ld@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > Welcome to the g= roup. Any fan of the house of Finwe is cool with me lol Most of what I've w= ritten that is Silm based is the House of Finwe - usually on down the line = to the Feanorians though. > > I never knew that Finwe had a daughter= ? Which HoME book is that from or is that your OFC? I'm not as HoME versed = as a lot of those on here so I might have just missed that in what I've rea= d so far. > > > gwidhiel wrote: > Hello, e= veryone! I just joined this group, at the suggestion of > Marta. I've been = a long-time reader of Tolkien fan fiction, and have > enjoyed many of the s= tories authors in this group have published. > Before I took a pen name, I= used to just sign my reviews with my real > name, Rebecca. > > ... And ..= . I've been working on my first-ever piece of fiction, which > I've posted = at the Silmarillion Writers' Guild. It's called, "Don't > Explain," and it = deals with how Finw=EB's second wife, Indis, might have > tried to set thin= gs right in her family, long after Finw=EB's death. > It's not finished, a= lthough I'm hoping to complete it pretty soon. If > you're interested, find= it here: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewsto= ry.php?sid=3D314 > > Insofar as it's possible to adhere to canon when deal= ing with the > messy marriages of Finw=EB, I've tried to do so, but obvious= ly have > taken a lot of creative license to develop characters who were li= ttle > more than named by Tolkien. In fact, one of the main characters of >= my story is Findis, Indis and Finw=EB's first child and eldest daughter > = -- but she doesn't even appear as a character option in either of the > two= story archives I've posted the story on! > > I'm very open to corrections= & suggestions, if you care to share any! > > Many thanks! > > -Gwidhiel = > > > > > > > ~~**~~ > Ali Kat/Alassante/K= athye > A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her > ~*~ = > A day without sunshine is like, night. > ~*~ > Okay - so whats the speed = of dark? > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1670 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90291 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 19:45:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 19:45:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.30) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 19:45:23 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 5so631950ywh.23 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:45:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.150.196.20 with SMTP id t20mr6641593ybf.111.1208202322881; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 45sm14857677wri.8.2008.04.14.12.45.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4803B43F.9030405@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:45:03 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=UO73zAZ5UHB2ZLfylX9VoXcxqFgPPWen3MRv4MIKPPxI5pWBRL3pZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva *waves* Hi, Gwidhiel. I'm glad you made it over here - I hope you enjoy it as much as I have. Marta gwidhiel wrote: > > > Hello, everyone! I just joined this group, at the suggestion of > Marta. I've been a long-time reader of Tolkien fan fiction, and have > enjoyed many of the stories authors in this group have published. > Before I took a pen name, I used to just sign my reviews with my real > name, Rebecca. > [snip] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1671 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3517 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 20:16:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 20:16:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 20:16:46 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 20:16:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 20:16:46 -0000 X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19105 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 20:16:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 20:16:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 20:16:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 20:16:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 20:16:03 -0000 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:16:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4803B43F.9030405@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "gwidhiel" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=LQSd8vBMgIOJz8srhJbCnBLX5L1AQoC83DJv_gDUu2Oa0ls X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel X-eGroups-Approved-By: tarion_anarore via web; 14 Apr 2008 20:16:45 -0000 *waving back* Hi Marta! I'm sure I will -- and thanks again for the sugge= stion! -Gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "melayt= on@..." wrote: > > *waves* > > Hi, Gwidhiel. I'm glad you m= ade it over here - I hope you enjoy it as > much as I have. > > Marta > = > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1672 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52298 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 20:35:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 20:35:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 20:35:58 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c02.31d7bc73 (34893) for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:35:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-MA14 (webmail-ma14.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.78]) by cia-da01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA012-884d4803c01534c; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:35:33 -0400 References: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:35:33 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA6C8638DBD457_870_51D8_WEBMAIL-MA14.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by WEBMAIL-MA14.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.78) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:35:33 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6C8638CD865F-870-28AB@WEBMAIL-MA14.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=j7yHr1kREEKvfw3tUFNQvbAZz0ReV-33GPjOhSurQeRVfTPybzu3 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA6C8638DBD457_870_51D8_WEBMAIL-MA14.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Gwidhiel--I found your story last night and started reading. I am really ca= ught me in the psychological examination of what caused the entire upheaval= in the House of Finwe. Fascination explorations. I am also very excited to= find to new WIPs about women at the same time being posted on the SWG. (Th= e other is Dawn Felagund's=C2=A0current WIP about the role of the wives lef= t being in Aman after the exodus of the Noldor,) You are very, very welcom= e to this group. Oshun In any case, I am supposed to be working right no= w, so I cannot go into more detail about either at the moment, but will be = commenting on the SWG archive on your story tonight when I get home. --= ---Original Message----- From: gwidhiel To: Silmarilli= onWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:51 am Subject: [Si= lmarillionWritersGuild] New member -- hello! Hello, everyone! I just = joined this group, at the suggestion of Marta. I've been a long-time reader= of Tolkien fan fiction, and have enjoyed many of the stories authors in th= is group have published. Before I took a pen name, I used to just sign my = reviews with my real name, Rebecca. ... And ... I've been working on my fi= rst-ever piece of fiction, which I've posted at the Silmarillion Writers' G= uild. It's called, "Don't Explain," and it deals with how Finw=C3=AB's seco= nd wife, Indis, might have tried to set things right in her family, long af= ter Finw=C3=AB's death. It's not finished, although I'm hoping to complete= it pretty soon. If you're interested, find it here: http://www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D314 Insofar as it's po= ssible to adhere to canon when dealing with the messy marriages of Finw=C3= =AB, I've tried to do so, but obviously have taken a lot of creative licens= e to develop characters who were little more than named by Tolkien. In fact= , one of the main characters of my story is Findis, Indis and Finw=C3=AB's = first child and eldest daughter -- but she doesn't even appear as a charact= er option in either of the two story archives I've posted the story on! I'= m very open to corrections & suggestions, if you care to share any! Many t= hanks! -Gwidhiel ----------MB_8CA6C8638DBD457_870_51D8_WEBMAIL-MA14.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Gwidhiel--I found your story last night and started reading. I am really ca= ught me in the psychological examination of what caused the entire upheaval= in the House of Finwe. Fascination explorations. I am also very excited to= find to new WIPs about women at the same time being posted on the SWG. (Th= e other is Dawn Felagund's current WIP about the role of the wives lef= t being in Aman after the exodus of the Noldor,)

You are very, ver= y welcome to this group.

Oshun


In any case, I am sup= posed to be working right now, so I cannot go into more detail about either= at the moment, but will be commenting on the SWG archive on your story ton= ight when I get home.



-----Original Message-----
Fr= om: gwidhiel
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@ya= hoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:51 am
Subject: [Silmarillio= nWritersGuild] New member -- hello!

Hello, every= one! I just joined this group, at the suggestion of
Marta. I've been a = long-time reader of Tolkien fan fiction, and have
enjoyed many of the s= tories authors in this group have published.
Before I took a pen name,= I used to just sign my reviews with my real
name, Rebecca.

..= . And ... I've been working on my first-ever piece of fiction, which
I'= ve posted at the Silmarillion Writers' Guild. It's called, "Don't
Expla= in," and it deals with how Finw=C3=AB's second wife, Indis, might have
= tried to set things right in her family, long after Finw=C3=AB's death. It's not finished, although I'm hoping to complete it pretty soon. If
= you're interested, find it here:

ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory= .php?sid=3D314

Insofar as it's possible to adhere to cano= n when dealing with the
messy marriages of Finw=C3=AB, I've tried to do= so, but obviously have
taken a lot of creative license to develop char= acters who were little
more than named by Tolkien. In fact, one of the = main characters of
my story is Findis, Indis and Finw=C3=AB's first chi= ld and eldest daughter
-- but she doesn't even appear as a character op= tion in either of the
two story archives I've posted the story on!
=
I'm very open to corrections & suggestions, if you care to share a= ny!

Many thanks!

-Gwidhiel

Get the MapQuest = Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!
----------MB_8CA6C8638DBD457_870_51D8_WEBMAIL-MA14.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1673 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25980 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 22:43:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 22:43:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 22:43:34 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB8757436D for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:07:24 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:07:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:07:21 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1254420880.20080414210721@tlen.pl> To: gwidhiel In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=V-hSjPwpq7TiymjTf_ot-VSFn0dvJfJRjzwzUrnmw8SZSuWYKsQ X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Gwidhiel, Welcome! g> It's called, "Don't Explain," and it deals with how Finw�'s second wife, Indis, might have g> tried to set things right in her family, long after Finw�'s death. Sounds great, one more story to add to my to-read-list. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1674 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88962 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 22:53:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 22:53:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n51b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.165) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 22:53:32 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n51.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 22:53:32 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 22:53:32 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 22:53:32 -0000 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:53:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=9iq1SVWWe25ui-w9941LY6bXdISqxc_pqFINXoUJdzKOZfY X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "gwidhiel" = wrote: > > Hello, everyone! I just joined this group, at the suggestion o= f > Marta..... > > ... And ... I've been working on my first-ever piece o= f fiction, which > I've posted at the Silmarillion Writers' Guild. It's ca= lled, "Don't > Explain," and it deals with how Finw=EB's second wife, Indis= , might have > tried to set things right in her family, long after Finw=EB'= s death. > > -Gwidhiel > Hi there, Gwidhiel! Very pleased to meet you.= As a newbie here myself, I promise the guys here don't bite - but it is = a great place to post and get feedback. I look forward to reading your wor= k :D Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1675 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52522 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 00:22:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 00:22:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.181) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 00:22:28 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so3404273waf.14 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:22:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.54.7 with SMTP id g7mr4436072wak.212.1208218948065; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:22:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:22:28 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7306_4925049.1208218948070" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=7RqY4yVnqKbfSkzKxCd1eVl5N9Jpbqm5tzXsqyutckCZFGJMWnVJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_7306_4925049.1208218948070-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1676 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16025 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 12:04:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 12:04:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 12:04:05 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:04:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:04:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:04:05 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:04:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8CA6C8638CD865F-870-28AB@WEBMAIL-MA14.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "gwidhiel" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=C6XHDdpHKIBdh0qWSWQ1XECGcoASs1EkH2h4VJjdJUqUYYc X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Hello, Oshun, Thanks for the welcome -- nice to meet you! Now that you = mention it, yeah, the story is full of women -- I hadn't even thought about= that until now, nor intended it. Those are usually the stories that remain= untold, certainly in the case of Tolkien. I can't even blame him for that= , because it's better to leave things alone if you can't really relate to t= he people involved, and I don't think Tolkien found it easy to think about = how things appeared from a woman's perspective. As you note, "Don't Explai= n" is an internal events story (I don't think that's a real term) rather th= an being driven by action/external events. I'm a bit worried that it will = get tedious, so I'm trying to not let characters drone on. Thanks a lot f= or reading, and for your comments! -Gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > Gwidhiel--I found your s= tory last night and started reading. I am really caught me in the psycholog= ical examination of what caused the entire upheaval in the House of Finwe. = Fascination explorations. I am also very excited to find to new WIPs about = women at the same time being posted on the SWG. (The other is Dawn Felagund= 's current WIP about the role of the wives left being in Aman after the exo= dus of the Noldor,) > > You are very, very welcome to this group. > > Osh= un > > > In any case, I am supposed to be working right now, so I cannot = go into more detail about either at the moment, but will be commenting on t= he SWG archive on your story tonight when I get home. > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1677 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86781 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 12:05:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 12:05:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 12:05:04 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:05:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:05:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:05:04 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:05:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1254420880.20080414210721@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "gwidhiel" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=KcBgbvc7Z5KaYixNw0kXot7c1UhFxOw4ociGRg-WLr0pQO4 X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Thanks, Sirielle! --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Siriell= e wrote: > > Ai Gwidhiel, > > Welcome! > > g> It's call= ed, "Don't Explain," and it deals with how Finw=EB's second wife, Indis, mi= ght have > g> tried to set things right in her family, long after Finw=EB'= s death. > > Sounds great, one more story to add to my to-read-list. > > = > Suilad, > Sirielle > > sirielle@... > http:/= /www.isle.px.pl > http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1678 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96551 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 12:06:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 12:06:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n31a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.208) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 12:06:16 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n31.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:06:16 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:06:16 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:06:16 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:06:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "gwidhiel" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=0o4BIexhbR3y-e1Yne5ED4TPZTB_PEK-j9ktvX8btiFa5Jo X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Hi, Moreth, Thanks -- nice to meet you too! -Gwidhiel --- In Silmarill= ionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wrote: > > Hi the= re, Gwidhiel! > > Very pleased to meet you. > > As a newbie here myself, = I promise the guys here don't bite - but it is > a great place to post and= get feedback. > > I look forward to reading your work :D > > Moreth > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1679 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17011 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 12:08:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 12:08:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.131) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 12:08:21 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:08:21 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:08:21 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 12:08:21 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:08:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "gwidhiel" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=d_ia2U_UuXnDTqBPmRAPNNyosTHLLKPTM4h_DCLH4AlGCKk X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Hi, Dawn, Thank you very much! I look forward to checking out your new WI= P. This is the first time I've ever written a piece of fiction (excluding = forced assignments in high school ... loooooong ago) and it's great to have= a nice group to share it with! -Gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild= @yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Hi, Gwidhie= l! > > Welcome to the group! :) I saw your story new on the archive yester= day and > will definitely be checking it out! I'm going to second Oshun's t= houghts > that any stories looking at the women in Tolkien's stories are al= ways > welcome to me. > > And thanks too, to Marta, for nudging you in our= general direction! > > Take care and if you need anything, do let me know= ! :) > > Dawn > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1680 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80966 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 14:07:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 14:07:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n51b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.165) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 14:07:46 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n51.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:07:46 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:07:46 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:07:46 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:07:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=MTEIJg9bJ9t3aF4y6FBoOdtr_AwODNNPvyujQt2FAnPFh8iFK3IfKbBf X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "gwidhiel" = wrote: > > Hi, Alassanate7, > > I'm pretty sure it's in "The Shibboleth of= F=EBanor" in HoME. Indeed Findis is mentioned in "The Shibboleth of F=EBa= nor" as is =CDrien (Lalwen), her sister, who I see also makes an appearance= in your psychological study. :^) "Don't Explain" is an intriguing examin= ation of the motivations of Finw=EB and Indis' reaction to them. And yeah,= I'd agree that JRRT likely didn't feel up to writing from a woman's perspe= ctive. However, we can do that here on the SWG! Welcome aboard! :^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1681 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91603 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 14:33:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 14:33:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 14:33:18 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so3186027waf.23 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:33:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.79.1 with SMTP id g1mr8289654wal.2.1208269997098; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:33:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:33:16 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10702_13893041.1208269997092" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Women in Silmfic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=fSW7N7aGSRHAQvcn3Y3DKWjREav7WSQLaJUm0kQzMSiZYRPmSZTc X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_10702_13893041.1208269997092-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1682 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17558 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 14:48:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 14:48:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.136) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 14:48:30 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:48:30 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:48:30 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:48:30 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:48:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Women in Silmfic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=XyPDhPYnu8biBycsNPVMnmWYRjr5I1PAJNC05jj174ROnZU X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Since it seems that we have a lot of stories about Tolk= ien's female > characters on our archive as of late, I thought I'd remind e= veryone that > there *is* a challenge for stories focusing on female charac= ters: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/challenges/bydate.php#20= 05 > > (scroll all the way to the bottom, as it was our very first officia= l > challenge) > > So if your story includes anything about Tolkien's "str= ong women," then I > encourage you to add the challenge listing to your sto= ry on the archive. In > this way, it is easy for readers to find stories ab= out a particular subject. [snip] OK -- but is it all right to enter a sto= ry if it's currently incomplete? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1683 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63244 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 14:52:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 14:52:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.176) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 14:52:44 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:52:44 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:52:44 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:52:44 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:52:44 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Women in Silmfic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=Ol2DLyfHQqRPEcrDW1tq2gEl-wbjGjFaTUGWzAyE3EvJnvo X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > [snip] > On a slightly related note, as there is a terri= ble cold going around the > House of Felagund right now Ugh,sorry to hear= it. I think I had that cold two weeks ago. Yuck! Hope you recover soon. = and I have, therefore, been restricted from > running about as much as a I= usually do, then I was reading *The Fall of > Gondolin* (BoLT2) yesterday = and found the coolest quote about Idril that > made me think of all the sto= ries about women on the archive as of late and > our discussion here: > > = "She herself would bide, said she, nor seek to live after her lord; and the= n > she fared about gathering womenfolk and wanderers and speeding them dow= n the > tunnel, and smiting marauders with her small band; nor might they d= issuade > her from bearing a sword." > > Am I alone in thinking that that = makes Idril much more interesting than she > is in *The Silmarillion*? And = *really* wanting to write a story about this?? > (But I'm quite committed a= lready ... :( ) > > Wow, that *does* make her a lot more interesting! I'= m afraid that, to me, she'd always appeared to be a bit bland. A story ab= out that would be very interesting! ... looking around ... Any takers? :) = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1684 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40470 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 14:54:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 14:54:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.136) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 14:54:20 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:54:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:54:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 14:54:20 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:54:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "gwidhiel" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=0xKTK7zCyNZ1xvgwhg4S9Fei_ytLGFgGy1fVQkBOrYO3GOE X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Thank you, pandemonium (do people ever call you Panda for short? ;) ). Nic= e to meet you! --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemoni= um_213" wrote: > [snip] > Indeed Findis is mentioned in "= The Shibboleth of F=EBanor" as is =CDrien > (Lalwen), her sister, who I see= also makes an appearance in your > psychological study. :^) "Don't Expla= in" is an intriguing > examination of the motivations of Finw=EB and Indis'= reaction to them. > > And yeah, I'd agree that JRRT likely didn't feel up= to writing from a > woman's perspective. However, we can do that here on = the SWG! > > Welcome aboard! :^) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1685 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97621 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 15:01:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 15:01:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.176) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 15:01:47 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n4so3187437wag.6 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:01:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.130.1 with SMTP id c1mr5014683wad.156.1208271705635; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:01:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:01:45 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10986_26746608.1208271705631" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Women in Silmfic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uIRMjFEHTMjzomz-MYlI_lS18AI953G17T2r2VA30SJH6qCLwwdk X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_10986_26746608.1208271705631-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1686 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1518 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 15:18:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 15:18:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n30b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.253) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 15:18:31 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 15:18:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 15:18:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 15:18:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:18:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=oR5RtM26Zs5hzCjh-mWQKgrRG8pngd4RcRT-IeDY6v46zTYeTPDKKRO4 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "gwidhiel" = wrote: > > Thank you, pandemonium (do people ever call you Panda for short?= ;) ). Heh. No. But "Doc B." - a foreshortening of my other 'Net alias, = "Doc Bushwell," is bandied about here. :^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1687 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87251 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 15:33:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 15:33:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 15:33:21 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 15:33:21 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 15:33:21 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:33:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="2-0931860758-7132550551=:1" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Women in Silmfic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=Jk_92NPIDNp3crtjklwaWU04jcPSdeewdpwXMTb6vjp6c27BHHNyaAzY X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --2-0931860758-7132550551=:1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heh. Well, this is a subtle hint. :^D Isilm=EB - my interpretation of Ele= ndil's wife - is proving to be a rather insistent character in The Elendilm= ir so to keep her from gnawing my ankles to the bone, I started wri= ting ficlets about her. I just posted these in the archive:Moon of the Sea= . FWIW, I also slapped the "Strong Women" designation on The= Elendilmir. Although the story is told from S=E1maril's viewpoint, he emp= hatically notes that the two queens of the D=FAnedain and his old friend fr= om Ost-in-Edhil are strong women. --2-0931860758-7132550551=:1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heh.  Well, this is a subtle hint. :^D

Isilm=EB - my interpreta= tion of Elendil's wife - is proving to be a rather insistent character in <= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.ph= p?sid=3D279">The Elendilmir so to keep her from gnawing my ankles to th= e bone, I started writing ficlets about her.  I just posted these in t= he archive:Moon of the Sea.

FWIW, I also sl= apped the "Strong Women" designation on The Elendilmir.  Althou= gh the story is told from S=E1maril's viewpoint, he emphatically notes that= the two queens of the D=FAnedain and his old friend from Ost-in-Edhil are = strong women.


--2-0931860758-7132550551=:1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1688 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46545 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 16:15:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 16:15:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 16:15:54 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 52305 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2008 16:15:53 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: AJZApYYVM1kfRvcTA_yV7lBTh.NpqHBfKI6ObZ9ThxpJ2EP4.b1GhjXDZyQLs94DBvAyfQEJ7kk4TIn4hQuAH1p_zO39PHs- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:15:53 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:15:53 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-295787200-1208276153=:50564" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <602410.50564.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=LESDAUaMQwDkPKTq560r7aO_ImPTpQxizKz28-xed1_02kVHFQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-295787200-1208276153=:50564 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So that brings up a valid question - why did he frequently omit the women over the men? Plus, and I know I've had a lot of discussions about this in other places, why did he make quite a few women that were featured in the stories so powerful - Galadriel, Eowyn, Luthien - ie so 'Mary Sue' yet there were some that were just simply omitted or not even given names - wives and moms. It makes me wonder if Tolkien didn't have mommy issues. pandemonium_213 wrote: --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "gwidhiel" wrote: > > Hi, Alassanate7, > > I'm pretty sure it's in "The Shibboleth of F�anor" in HoME. Indeed Findis is mentioned in "The Shibboleth of F�anor" as is �rien (Lalwen), her sister, who I see also makes an appearance in your psychological study. :^) "Don't Explain" is an intriguing examination of the motivations of Finw� and Indis' reaction to them. And yeah, I'd agree that JRRT likely didn't feel up to writing from a woman's perspective. However, we can do that here on the SWG! Welcome aboard! :^) ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 --0-295787200-1208276153=:50564 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
So that brings up a valid question - why did he frequently omit the women over the men? Plus, and I know I've had a lot of discussions about this in other places, why did he make quite a few women that were featured in the stories so powerful - Galadriel, Eowyn, Luthien - ie so 'Mary Sue' yet there were some that were just simply omitted or not even given names - wives and moms. It makes me wonder if Tolkien didn't have mommy issues.
 

pandemonium_213 wrote:
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "gwidhiel"
.> wrote:
>
> Hi, Alassanate7,
>
> I'm pretty sure it's in "The Shibboleth of F�anor" in HoME.

Indeed Findis is mentioned in "The Shibboleth of F�anor" as is �rien
(Lalwen), her sister, who I see also makes an appearance in your
psychological study. :^) "Don't Explain" is an intriguing
examination of the motivations of Finw� and Indis' reaction to them.

And yeah, I'd agree that JRRT likely didn't feel up to writing from a
woman's perspective. However, we can do that here on the SWG!

Welcome aboard! :^)




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99   --0-295787200-1208276153=:50564-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1689 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42441 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 16:47:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 16:47:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 16:47:11 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 16:47:10 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 16:47:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 16:47:10 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:47:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <602410.50564.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=yadlX_0ir54RMnBBJ-dfLcDY1e_fSx6xmNrpTthshhOHwOE X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > So that brings up a valid question - why did he frequently om= it the women over the men? Plus, and I know I've had a lot of discussions = about this in other places, why did he make quite a few women that were f= eatured in the stories so powerful - Galadriel, Eowyn, Luthien - ie so 'Ma= ry Sue' yet there were some that were just simply omitted or not even give= n names - wives and moms. It makes me wonder if Tolkien didn't have mommy = issues. > Well - if I recall correctly he was orphaned pretty young, = so I guess there is probably some complicated psychology going on... but I= 'll take Eowyn/Galadriel/Luthien over Sleeping Beauty or Snow White any da= y! Re. the pandemonium nickname... Bwahahaha! Panda! Wonderful... [I know = I said the guys here don't bite, but maybe I spoke too soon ;P *Hides beh= ind monitor*)] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1690 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74575 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 17:51:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 17:51:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 17:51:54 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bf3.2b8b7287 (14467) for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:51:18 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1208281878" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Women in Silmfic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=q9jD06Q82wRpwcShsYEGnmnN1iQx5KFLmyi3IFvh8gWZGNEAdovE X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1208281878 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/15/2008 10:34:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, docbush= well@gmail.com writes: FWIW, I also slapped the "Strong Women" designatio= n on The Elendilmir. Although the story is told from S=E1maril's viewpoi= nt, he emphatically notes that the two queens of the D=FAnedain and his o= ld friend from Ost-in-Edhil are strong women. Well, that is absolutel= y fitting and no stretch at all. I am, as you know very attached to your = Samaril, but the three women you mention above are major supporting chara= cters, unique, strong and a pleasure to follow. **************It's Tax = Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://mone= y.aol.com/tax?NCID=3Daolcmp00300000002850) -------------------------------1208281878 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =

In a messa= ge dated 4/15/2008 10:34:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.co= m writes:
FWIW, I also slapped the "Str= ong Women" designation on The Elendilmir.  Although the stor= y is told from S=E1maril's viewpoint, he emphatically notes that the two= queens of the D=FAnedain and his old friend from Ost-in-Edhil are stron= g women.

Well, that is a= bsolutely fitting and no stretch at all. I am, as you know very attached t= o your Samaril, but the three women you mention above are major s= upporting characters, unique, strong and a pleasure to follow.



It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and = advice on AOL Money & Finance.
-------------------------------1208281878-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1691 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95254 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 17:53:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 17:53:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 17:53:09 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cdc.27bcbbf4 (14467) for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:52:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:52:55 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1208281975" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=m1orI19lhylAUS7WUIUw2cZgBaJLpDeXci3JaMaTMuR5Hb9xGydp X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1208281975 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It makes me wonder if Tolkien didn't have mommy issues. Well, he did lose his mother young. I don't think that I understood my own mother's strength until I was older. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) -------------------------------1208281975 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
It makes me wonder if Tolkien didn't have m= ommy issues.
Well, he did lose h= is mother young. I don't think that I understood my own mother's strength = until I was older.



It's = Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
-------------------------------1208281975-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1692 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25731 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 18:42:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 18:42:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.180) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 18:42:21 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so3318065waf.23 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:42:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.192.1 with SMTP id p1mr8715832waf.47.1208284941261; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:42:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:42:21 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12535_21538333.1208284941227" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=71nZnbxTjssxzFFAw50Pgr7His-zIIXSEXAi1uFMFMnBSrBnQOMp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_12535_21538333.1208284941227-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1693 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85674 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 18:59:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 18:59:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 18:59:00 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 856 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2008 18:59:00 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 2aSQ2MkVM1lBC9wC6tMqDcWhh06qxm9PLmprwTXE8UqXzez6sDLpvVwDQ9lGBeHWWtSApmeS8L6FCneRj6RStLQPdShn.ek- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:59:00 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:59:00 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-998045202-1208285940=:99650" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <427121.99650.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=So1QjNjCS5lfe9J5a1C99FtSCtXHNWb1pkzA0jVAJz8n87gFxA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-998045202-1208285940=:99650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit But you know that Melian probably threatened to smite him a few times. lol You're totally right.Galadriel seemed to have more reign over her husband than Melian did. Of course Gladdy was the 'superhero' type and Melian's daughter got all the attention when her mother was a pretty ass-kicking Maia. We had a discussion in another group about the way Peter Jackson portrayed the Witch King so powerful over Gandalf. That was a major pisser to me. I just felt like screaming 'Helloooooo. Maia!' While some Maiar are 'all powerful' types and others aren't. Of course I cannot help but thinking of Morgoth screaming like a girl when Ungoliant decided to choke him. teehee Proof that even big strong demi gods don't like spiders! Dawn Felagund wrote: On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Alassante7 wrote: > So that brings up a valid question - why did he frequently omit the women over the men? Plus, and I know I've had a lot of discussions about this in other places, why did he make quite a few women that were featured in the stories so powerful - Galadriel, Eowyn, Luthien - ie so 'Mary Sue' yet there were some that were just simply omitted or not even given names - wives and moms. It makes me wonder if Tolkien didn't have mommy issues. :^D It is a great question, though! I do think it's important to keep in mind that Tolkien was from--and writing--in an era so different from ours. I mean, when he started his work on The Silmarillion in 1917, women in his country were still more than a decade away from getting universal voting rights. (1928 in the United Kingdom) Personally, as a young woman in the modern era, that seems like such a basic right to me that ... well, I can't even imagine a world where it was thought perfectly civilized--indeed, advisable!--to deny voting rights to over half of the population.* And Tolkien was on the cusp of middle age when that right was granted. *Yes, I am aware that this is still the case in too many places in the world. Even I'm not so deeply buried in my fantasy novels not to know this. ;) So I've no doubt that he thought himself very liberated for his era. (And think on Laws and Customs among the Eldar where he claims that male and female Eldar are equal ... but of course, women can't work in the hard sciences and don't kill things or go to war, and of course they're weakened by their very biology in bearing children and prefer soft arts like embroidery and weaving. I know that I'm not the only one who is annoyed by this! :^P [Though I do like that the male Eldar cook, as indeed they do in the House of Felagund. ;) ]) I do get the feeling, reading about characters like Luthien, that Tolkien just didn't *get* the female psyche very well. His women are not nearly so complex as his men. I mean, as you noted, Al, they're either superheroes or non-entities; there is very little in-between. They must be beautiful and perfect to be even worth mentioning. And I know that I've ranted about this on the archive already, but the Melian situation is, imho, one of the most annoying. How is it that a Maia marries an Elda, that a Maia protects said Elda's land and gives it all its "magical" properties, that a Maia has foresight about the future of said Elda and said lands ... and the Elda tells the Maia what to do?? If anything demonstrates to me Tolkien's underlying feelings about women--no matter how liberal he might have been for his era, thinking that men should share in the cooking--then this is it: that Thingol and not Melian was the leader at Doriath. *breathes* (Now see what you've done, Gwidhiel, made an innocent introduction and inspired a rant. ;) Don't worry, it's quite common around here! We're always looking for an excuse to go off on tangents. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 --0-998045202-1208285940=:99650 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
But you know that Melian probably threatened to smite him a few times. lol You're totally right.Galadriel seemed to have more reign over her husband than Melian did. Of course Gladdy was the 'superhero' type and Melian's daughter got all the attention when her mother was a pretty ass-kicking Maia.
 
We had a discussion in another group about the way Peter Jackson portrayed the Witch King so powerful over Gandalf. That was a major pisser to me. I just felt like screaming 'Helloooooo. Maia!' While some Maiar are 'all powerful' types and others aren't. Of course I cannot help but thinking of Morgoth screaming like a girl when Ungoliant decided to choke him. teehee Proof that even big strong demi gods don't like spiders!

Dawn Felagund wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Alassante7 <alassante7@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So that brings up a valid question - why did he frequently omit the women over the men? Plus, and I know I've had a lot of discussions about this in other places, why did he make quite a few women that were featured in the stories so powerful - Galadriel, Eowyn, Luthien - ie so 'Mary Sue' yet there were some that were just simply omitted or not even given names - wives and moms. It makes me wonder if Tolkien didn't have mommy issues.

:^D

It is a great question, though!

I do think it's important to keep in mind that Tolkien was from--and writing--in an era so different from ours. I mean, when he started his work on The Silmarillion in 1917, women in his country were still more than a decade away from getting universal voting rights. (1928 in the United Kingdom) Personally, as a young woman in the modern era, that seems like such a basic right to me that ... well, I can't even imagine a world where it was thought perfectly civilized--indeed, advisable!--to deny voting rights to over half of the population.* And Tolkien was on the cusp of middle age when that right was granted.

*Yes, I am aware that this is still the case in too many places in the world. Even I'm not so deeply buried in my fantasy novels not to know this. ;)

So I've no doubt that he thought himself very liberated for his era. (And think on Laws and Customs among the Eldar where he claims that male and female Eldar are equal ... but of course, women can't work in the hard sciences and don't kill things or go to war, and of course they're weakened by their very biology in bearing children and prefer soft arts like embroidery and weaving. I know that I'm not the only one who is annoyed by this! :^P [Though I do like that the male Eldar cook, as indeed they do in the House of Felagund. ;) ])

I do get the feeling, reading about characters like Luthien, that Tolkien just didn't *get* the female psyche very well. His women are not nearly so complex as his men. I mean, as you noted, Al, they're either superheroes or non-entities; there is very little in-between. They must be beautiful and perfect to be even worth mentioning.

And I know that I've ranted about this on the archive already, but the Melian situation is, imho, one of the most annoying. How is it that a Maia marries an Elda, that a Maia protects said Elda's land and gives it all its "magical" properties, that a Maia has foresight about the future of said Elda and said lands ... and the Elda tells the Maia what to do?? If anything demonstrates to me Tolkien's underlying feelings about women--no matter how liberal he might have been for his era, thinking that men should share in the cooking--then this is it: that Thingol and not Melian was the leader at Doriath.

*breathes*

(Now see what you've done, Gwidhiel, made an innocent introduction and inspired a rant. ;) Don't worry, it's quite common around here! We're always looking for an excuse to go off on tangents. :)

Dawn


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99   --0-998045202-1208285940=:99650-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1694 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44721 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 19:22:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 19:22:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 19:22:19 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 019C258056 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:22:19 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:22:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:22:16 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <32884716.20080415212216@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <427121.99650.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <427121.99650.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=9crvzB4gc23KLOR5QhUIkAdFkozJ-oIWMEywJWUydjBG6oTOjjs X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante, A> We had a discussion in another group about the way Peter A> Jackson portrayed the Witch King so powerful over Gandalf. That was A> a major pisser to me. I just felt like screaming 'Helloooooo. A> Maia!' While some Maiar are 'all powerful' types and others aren't. It was described in UT - wizards weren't that powerful as 'default' Maiar. They were limited to an old human form with all it's weaknesses and weren't allowed to use their powers in full might, rather limited. They supposed to be advisors, not taking part in events. Saruman broke it. Probably someone can explain it better, I don't have UT in English. The most pissing off what PJ did toward Gandalf was Gandalf beating Denethor on head. A> Of course I cannot help but thinking of Morgoth screaming like a A> girl when Ungoliant decided to choke him. teehee Proof that even A> big strong demi gods don't like spiders! She was evil woman, he should know better before he dated her ;) I wonder what would happen if Balrogs didn't save him. In the end she was powerful spirit pumped up with his own powers (which he had to loose in the process). Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1695 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79501 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 19:33:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 19:33:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.138) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 19:33:36 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 19:33:36 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 19:33:36 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 19:33:36 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:33:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?R3ftZGhpZWw=?= Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=V6kNsA3hjRY_tt6iFld8hnhvqWboy3bJAzi2CtU2HWWaYnE X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Uh-oh, looks like I put my foot in it, on Day 2 no less! --- In Silmari= llionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wrote: > > > Re.= the pandemonium nickname... Bwahahaha! Panda! Wonderful... [I know > I sa= id the guys here don't bite, but maybe I spoke too soon ;P *Hides > behind= monitor*)] > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1696 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31559 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 19:36:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 19:36:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n5.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.132) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 19:36:06 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n5.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 19:36:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 19:36:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 19:36:05 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:36:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=qEZPFafXPlokMOJS_27_Q3pZDkCKx_d2GMJ0CIKn5Vlw2XoAs1nwl9_z X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses What about Aredhel, the rebel lady of the Finweans? Don't you think she is= treated awfully? The Prof made her independent and strong- willed and fon= d of consorting with "the wrong guys" like Celegorm, liked hunting and rid= ing, not weaving and sewing but that was too much and so he had to punish = her in all sorts of ways, from rape to murder. Incidentally, what could he= r male relatives have been thinking of when Turgon took her off to Gondoli= n? That she would like it locked up in a box? Poor misunderstood girl. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1697 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5720 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 19:48:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 19:48:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 19:48:43 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 33630 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2008 19:48:42 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: bnQbDQcVM1lSOa4QHHVwZ1Cr.n6nh1hdCZvgpR3ovBKJ5aDBomaDGtnJM4ydD1rfvuokXFgG30kTqJgLlivxJlnGDnA7yBI- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:48:42 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:48:42 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <32884716.20080415212216@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-546928364-1208288922=:32765" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <896989.32765.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=-abURyC8nnaVPFwgK8XXkJHogS_-_CXFP6m0n6iRgCOniqMtBQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-546928364-1208288922=:32765 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Can you imagine Morgoth's embarassment when his balrogs and orcs had to save him? hehe Too bad the elves weren't there to see that. They could have used that taunt for ages at least. Sirielle wrote: Ai Alassante, A> We had a discussion in another group about the way Peter A> Jackson portrayed the Witch King so powerful over Gandalf. That was A> a major pisser to me. I just felt like screaming 'Helloooooo. A> Maia!' While some Maiar are 'all powerful' types and others aren't. It was described in UT - wizards weren't that powerful as 'default' Maiar. They were limited to an old human form with all it's weaknesses and weren't allowed to use their powers in full might, rather limited. They supposed to be advisors, not taking part in events. Saruman broke it. Probably someone can explain it better, I don't have UT in English. The most pissing off what PJ did toward Gandalf was Gandalf beating Denethor on head. A> Of course I cannot help but thinking of Morgoth screaming like a A> girl when Ungoliant decided to choke him. teehee Proof that even A> big strong demi gods don't like spiders! She was evil woman, he should know better before he dated her ;) I wonder what would happen if Balrogs didn't save him. In the end she was powerful spirit pumped up with his own powers (which he had to loose in the process). Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her ~*~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 --0-546928364-1208288922=:32765 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Can you imagine Morgoth's embarassment when his balrogs and orcs had to save him? hehe Too bad the elves weren't there to see that. They could have used that taunt for ages at least.

Sirielle wrote:

Ai Alassante,

A> We had a discussion in another group about the way Peter
A> Jackson portrayed the Witch King so powerful over Gandalf. That was
A> a major pisser to me. I just felt like screaming 'Helloooooo.
A> Maia!' While some Maiar are 'all powerful' types and others aren't.

It was described in UT - wizards weren't that powerful as 'default'
Maiar. They were limited to an old human form with all it's weaknesses
and weren't allowed to use their powers in full might, rather limited.
They supposed to be advisors, not taking part in events. Saruman broke
it. Probably someone can explain it better, I don't have UT in English.

The most pissing off what PJ did toward Gandalf was Gandalf beating
Denethor on head.

A> Of course I cannot help but thinking of Morgoth screaming like a
A> girl when Ungoliant decided to choke him. teehee Proof that even
A> big strong demi gods don't like spiders!

She was evil woman, he should know better before he dated her ;) I
wonder what would happen if Balrogs didn't save him. In the end she
was powerful spirit pumped up with his own powers (which he had to
loose in the process).

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
~*~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99   --0-546928364-1208288922=:32765-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1698 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33628 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 19:49:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 19:49:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.244) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 19:49:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 19:49:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 19:49:13 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:49:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?R3ftZGhpZWw=?= Subject: Re: Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=vqeXZ7-3QsTZZPuxyEh6elfkKktYBDBEVSvljQ5XYTbcPLk X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Alassante7 wrote: > > So that brings up a valid question - why did he frequentl= y omit the women > over the men? Plus, and I know I've had a lot of discuss= ions about this in > other places, why did he make quite a few women that w= ere featured in the > stories so powerful - Galadriel, Eowyn, Luthien - ie = so 'Mary Sue' yet there > were some that were just simply omitted or not ev= en given names - wives and > moms. It makes me wonder if Tolkien didn't hav= e mommy issues. Re the mommy issues (and the likely cause): I have alway= s thought so myself. > > :^D > > It is a great question, though! > > I= do think it's important to keep in mind that Tolkien was from--and > writi= ng--in an era so different from ours. I mean, when he started his work > on= *The Silmarillion* in 1917, women in his country were still more than a > = decade away from getting universal voting rights. (1928 in the United > Kin= gdom) Personally, as a young woman in the modern era, that seems like > suc= h a basic right to me that ... well, I can't even imagine a world where > i= t was thought perfectly civilized--indeed, advisable!--to deny voting > rig= hts to over half of the population.* And Tolkien was on the cusp of > middl= e age when that right was granted. All of this is true. And for my part,= I don't blame Tolkien for his limited perspective on women, product of his= time, people vary in the amount that they're able to relate to those unlik= e themselves, etc. It's just interesting for people interested in taking T= olkien's creation further, e.g. via fan fiction, that a lot of the gaps he = left pertain to the female characters who were, for the most part, minimall= y sketched ... or just barely named. [snip] > > I do get the feeling, r= eading about characters like Luthien, that Tolkien > just didn't *get* the = female psyche very well. His women are not nearly so > complex as his men. = I mean, as you noted, Al, they're either superheroes or > non-entities; the= re is very little in-between. They must be beautiful and > perfect to be ev= en worth mentioning. Exactly! And while I do think it's only reasonable= to view Tolkien in light of his time & society, as well as his personal hi= story, compare him to someone like Nathaniel Hawthorne, who, at least in Th= e Scarlet Letter (one of my all-time favorite books), created a woman who w= as strong in very specifically feminine ways, and contrasted with male char= acters who seemed superficially to embody different types of strength, but = who actually showed themselves to be not as enduring, noble, or strong as H= ester Prynne was. I think that Tolkien really liked women, and believed in= the principle that they could be strong, forceful, and effective. But lik= e you say, Dawn, I don't think he raelly "got" them, and for that reason I = think it's just as well that he didn't try to elaborate on them too much. >= > And I know that I've ranted about this on the archive already, but the = > Melian situation is, imho, one of the most annoying. How is it that a Mai= a > marries an Elda, that a Maia protects said Elda's land and gives it all= its > "magical" properties, that a Maia has foresight about the future of = said > Elda and said lands ... and the Elda tells the Maia what to do?? If = * > anything* demonstrates to me Tolkien's underlying feelings about women-= -no > matter how liberal he might have been for his era, thinking that men = should > share in the cooking--then this is it: that *Thingol* and not *Mel= ian* was > the leader at Doriath. I'm with you on this one, for sure! > = > *breathes* > > (Now see what you've done, Gwidhiel, made an innocent in= troduction and > inspired a rant. ;) Don't worry, it's quite common around = here! We're always > looking for an excuse to go off on tangents. :) > H= ee hee ... sorry! > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1699 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78263 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 20:05:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 20:05:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 20:05:00 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d00.2c2741b9 (34933) for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:04:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-M20 (fwm-m20.webmail.aol.com [64.12.168.84]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA046-887548050a60b2; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:04:48 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:04:48 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA6D4B17949289_13C4_17DA_FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com (64.12.168.84) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:04:48 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6D4B175B5A31-13C4-C19@FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=YvPc7BDG5JGda2iRfWaUAWJYPsfUGbT9BUmgDpskmqNuvHNkv6F0 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA6D4B17949289_13C4_17DA_FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What about Aredhel, the rebel lady of the Finweans? Don't you think I definitely plan to write about Aredhel, setting it up already in my current story cycle.\ I completely sympathize with your analysis. she is treated awfully? -----Original Message----- From: angelica.ramses To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 3:36 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) What about Aredhel, the rebel lady of the Finweans? Don't you think she is treated awfully? The Prof made her independent and strong- willed and fond of consorting with "the wrong guys" like Celegorm, liked hunting and riding, not weaving and sewing but that was too much and so he had to punish her in all sorts of ways, from rape to murder. Incidentally, what could her male relatives have been thinking of when Turgon took her off to Gondolin? That she would like it locked up in a box? Poor misunderstood girl. ----------MB_8CA6D4B17949289_13C4_17DA_FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

What about Aredhel, the rebel lady of the Finweans? Don't you think

I definitely plan to write about Aredhel, setting it up already in my current story cycle.\

I completely sympathize with your analysis.
she is treated awfully?




-----Original Message-----
From: angelica.ramses
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 3:36 pm
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!)

What about Aredhel, the rebel lady of the Finweans? Don't you think
she is treated awfully? The Prof made her independent and strong-
willed and fond of consorting with "the wrong guys" like Celegorm,
liked hunting and riding, not weaving and sewing but that was too much
and so he had to punish her in all sorts of ways, from rape to murder.
Incidentally, what could her male relatives have been thinking of when
Turgon took her off to Gondolin? That she would like it locked up in a
box? Poor misunderstood girl.

----------MB_8CA6D4B17949289_13C4_17DA_FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1700 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46801 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 20:34:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 20:34:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 20:34:54 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 20:34:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 20:34:51 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:34:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=0NQWRotB4Z25gjr18NRMf7AVR8pgECjDd89fzI9z5zNsqQI X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Gw=EDdhiel = wrote: > > Uh-oh, looks like I put my foot in it, on Day 2 no less! > = > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" > wr= ote: > > > > > > Re. the pandemonium nickname... Bwahahaha! Panda! Wonderf= ul... [I know > > I said the guys here don't bite, but maybe I spoke too = soon ;P *Hides > > behind monitor*)] > > > Oh - don't worry! I'll be the= one in trouble :P I'm stashing it for future use at an appropriate point.= .. Lord only knows what the revenge might be - I fear I may annoy The Isty= ar (Go read Pandemonium's 'The Apprentice' for refs...) Still ROTFL :D From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1701 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55863 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 21:05:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 21:05:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 21:05:26 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so3037416wah.16 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:05:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.92.6 with SMTP id p6mr5622627wab.178.1208293525456; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:05:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:05:20 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13484_24606836.1208293525441" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Fan History Wiki X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=19BnlUADHxPXooY-BzWZ_LlKYqdLd2OUsSf0uYM9NvxnuvlKnqht X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_13484_24606836.1208293525441-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1702 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31419 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 21:19:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 21:19:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n53b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.167) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 21:19:25 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n53.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 21:19:25 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 21:19:25 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 21:19:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:19:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=EwDPLyIesob1mK1h_PMFgceoPzjTahkkFWOdxpLNhnBNno7QCW7yxa4D X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Gw=EDdhiel > wrote: No worries. There's no putting of the foot. I suspect Moreth is = ROTFL because "Panda" is so fitting for my warm and cuddly personality. ;^)= > > > Oh - don't worry! I'll be the one in trouble :P I'm stashing it= for > future use at an appropriate point... Lord only knows what the > r= evenge might be - I fear I may annoy The Istyar (Go read > Pandemonium's '= The Apprentice' for refs...) Oh, now, The Istyar can be soft-hearted, i.e.= , he didn't fry his apprentice to a crisp for that intellectual property vi= olation. On the other hand, if you call him "Mairon," all bets are off. = > > Still ROTFL :D > I'm gonna go gnaw on some tasty bamboo shoots now. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1703 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38676 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 21:21:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 21:21:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 21:21:04 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6D074808C for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:21:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:20:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:20:01 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <298363709.20080415232001@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <896989.32765.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <32884716.20080415212216@tlen.pl> <896989.32765.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ORxsZc3kFUh2DkO8K3qYI2wMteh7cW-GiyK12sSS4mhXCX54EVo X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante, A> Can you imagine Morgoth's embarassment when his balrogs and A> orcs had to save him? hehe Too bad the elves weren't�there to see A> that. They could have used that taunt for ages at least. Yet there were witnesses, other way chronicles wouldn't mention this incident ;) In the end unintentionally Ungoliant made it easier for Fingolfin to wound Morgoth later. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1704 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15083 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 23:00:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 23:00:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.207) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 23:00:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 23:00:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 23:00:05 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:00:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=N4IYtDUWGQLNjKDF3qBlqbjIhLvRU3ENEr_kH2H5w8bM4OY X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > Oh, now, The Istyar can be soft-hearted... Yeah - rig= ht! ... and in what 'verse is that? /Snigger! > > > I'm gonna go gnaw on s= ome tasty bamboo shoots now. > "Eats, shoots and leaves." - Arrrgh, I just= couldn't resist... [Bad Moreth!] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1705 Return-Path: X-Sender: purplemaeve@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68294 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 00:21:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 00:21:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.168) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 00:21:38 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 29so2218904wff.24 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:21:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.57.20 with SMTP id f20mr1582344wfa.293.1208305298609; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:21:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.142.19 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:51:38 +0930 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8082_2404818.1208305298579" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Maeve Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286967944; y=kLMIiksP189NTR0n4JPfvzfc8ApUmbYFWR0Stea1VFt_CClaox0 X-Yahoo-Profile: purplemaeve ------=_Part_8082_2404818.1208305298579-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1706 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16829 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 01:14:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 01:14:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 01:14:33 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k34so3201899wah.10 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:14:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.148.1 with SMTP id v1mr9026519wad.21.1208308473453; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:14:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.9 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:14:33 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_14544_25647658.1208308473446" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=a4UmVhciCw787g5tGIFYpd5s6KxvOcaEK51ezZY_2wdpnFYeCZ40 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_14544_25647658.1208308473446-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1707 Return-Path: X-Sender: purplemaeve@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17769 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 02:19:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 02:19:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.168) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 02:19:29 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 29so2458327wff.32 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:19:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.148.7 with SMTP id v7mr2493442wfd.218.1208312368885; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:19:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.142.19 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:49:28 +0930 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8595_8548033.1208312368861" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Maeve Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286967944; y=12mMHHfT_0XxKtYDgano1BouzV4g9fBWEf-qRtYaCeS9oxo6GzQ X-Yahoo-Profile: purplemaeve ------=_Part_8595_8548033.1208312368861-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1708 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85690 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 12:30:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 12:30:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.101) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 12:30:13 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n9.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 12:30:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 12:30:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 12:30:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:30:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: New member -- hello! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=KrSTyslGbNmrRQ2YeRFch7y5_PoQQQycjofl0eDTCfnU1w4 X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Oh dear, well ... hee hee it is kind of funny. But sorry for unwittingly p= roviding ammunition! I need to get on reading some stories, and then perha= ps I'll have a better sense of what Moreth is talking about. When work all= ows! --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" <= docbushwell@...> wrote: > > > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup= s.com, Gw=EDdhiel > > wrote: > > No worries. There's no putti= ng of the foot. I suspect Moreth is ROTFL > because "Panda" is so fitting f= or my warm and cuddly personality. ;^) > > > > > > > > Oh - don't worr= y! I'll be the one in trouble :P I'm stashing it for > > future use at an = appropriate point... Lord only knows what the > > revenge might be - I fea= r I may annoy The Istyar (Go read > > Pandemonium's 'The Apprentice' for r= efs...) > > Oh, now, The Istyar can be soft-hearted, i.e., he didn't fry h= is > apprentice to a crisp for that intellectual property violation. On > = the other hand, if you call him "Mairon," all bets are off. > > > > > St= ill ROTFL :D > > > I'm gonna go gnaw on some tasty bamboo shoots now. > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1709 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42662 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 17:06:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 17:06:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.249) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 17:06:48 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n29.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 17:06:48 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 17:06:48 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 17:06:48 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:06:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Women in Tolkien's Stories X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=AeBwwbYjXlLEkonjgd8w-bJCuPq5kb4s2t1swl3bo2VfjXI X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Maeve w= rote: > > > > In Danmark, the right to rule is still passed exclusively th= rough the male > line. Yet it is a very modern and equal society. It has a= lso one of the > world's oldest royal familes. There was a lot about it whe= n Princess Mary > was pregnant but she had a son first so the debate died. = Queen Victoria > gained the throne because there was no-one else and the m= onarchy was in dire > staits. Princess Victoria was her eldest child but i= t was Prince Albert > (known as King Edward) who was the heir to the throne= . I think the rules > regarding succession are not representative of socie= ty in general because > they are more stringent and more geared towards the= survival of the > country. I suppose that that rule is pretty much redund= ant now since no > modern royal family has any real political power anymore= and can no longer > truly affect the stability of their country. > > Maev= e > Of course, Victoria wasn't the first English queen to rule in her own = right. Elizabeth ruled with no direct male heir. And while it's true that= succession in monarchies is usually through the male line, I don't think t= hat one can take that fact apart from its historical roots: Being a king m= eant being a warrior. Over time kings could become more removed from the f= ront lines of the wars that they waged, but even in the Late Middle Ages Eu= ropean kings were still leading charges against the enemy. That's a big pa= rt of the reason women were usually excluded from succession. And Tolkien = was immersed in the literature of early Medieval Europe, and was trying to = create a mythology that was modeled on old heroic epics -- which, for the a= fore-mentioned reason, focus almost exclusively on the deeds of men, not wo= men. But while I am all for considering Tolkien as a product of his time = and culture, I must point out that, given that he took the trouble to creat= e a race of beings who were explicitly *not* tied to the constraints and li= mitations of the human life span, human abilities, etc., the real-world exp= lanation doesn't goes very far in explaining why Tolkien chose to put male = elves in control in nearly every situation, even when there was a Maia at h= and. We know that female elves could fight. So why couldn't they rule (wi= th a couple of notable exceptions)? (Although I do agree, in the case of M= elian, that putting her in a supporting-spouse/adviser role *does* make sen= se considering it was Thingol's people that were being governed. And there= might be other justifications for it too, which aren't germane to the issu= e of Tolkien and Women.) I do think it boils down to Dawn's point, that To= lkien just didn't understand the female psyche. That's not a condemnation = stemming from a narrowly modern perspective, I'm just accounting for the ob= servable fact that he didn't create many elaborated female characters, even= though he'd created an entire race who didn't have to conform to human nor= ms. He does appear to have believed in the principle of female equality --= but that doesn't appear to have translated into an ability to richly imagi= ne what an independent, powerful female would be like. I can imagine a man= (or woman) in any era or society finding it difficult to assume the perspe= ctive of the opposite sex. -Gwidhiel From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1710 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30913 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 19:58:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 19:58:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n24a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.234) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 19:58:02 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n24.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 19:58:02 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 19:58:02 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 19:58:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:58:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Women in Tolkien's Stories X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=e4LoYPm_LjF9v8qNos8FopltUegYc1eDZpULpdtnaIeQwWM X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Gwidhiel" = wrote: > He does appear to have believed in the principle of female > equa= lity -- but that doesn't appear to have translated into an ability > to ri= chly imagine what an independent, powerful female would be like. > I can = imagine a man (or woman) in any era or society finding it > difficult to as= sume the perspective of the opposite sex. > > > -Gwidhiel > I totally = agree, Gwidhiel. And (not to disrail this from the 'Women in Tolkien's Sto= ries' debate) - it is also notable that father figures are few and far bet= ween. Now in TS that can be explained by the style of writing, but in Lo= tRO? Frodo is an orphan, Aragorn is an orphan, so is Elrond... pretty much= everyone else's father is non-existant. The only father/son interaction = I can recall off the top of my head is Denethor/Faramir - and that ends a = bit badly... I think I'm saying a lot of writing is based on experience fo= r detail/personal interaction. So, if there were no strong women to base = his ideas on, can you blame the guy if the ones he does write are idealise= d? I guess he really needed a woman to beta for him - let's be thankful = there is now the internet, or we would all be writing bad-fic privately in= our diaries ;P From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1711 Return-Path: X-Sender: hrymfaxe@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98471 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 07:07:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 07:07:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n26a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.240) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 07:07:42 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n26.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2008 07:07:42 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2008 07:07:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2008 07:07:42 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 07:07:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "hrymfaxe" Subject: Re: Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=311315064; y=YI4eNy9eQhzgZqoHLYlx4dEgwCJNLvOg0BVpDcJVB2ZA_to X-Yahoo-Profile: hrymfaxe > In Danmark, the right to rule is still passed exclusively through the m= ale > line. Yet it is a very modern and equal society. It has also one of= the > world's oldest royal familes. There was a lot about it when Princes= s Mary > was pregnant but she had a son first so the debate died. Now th= is may be a bit off-topic, but parliament did pass an act in Denmark conce= rning this: "The Act of Succession of 27 March 1953 introduced the possibi= lity of female succession". That is why there is a queen today and not a k= ing. And I would like to think that if the crown-prince's oldest child had= been a daughter that she would have been allowed to take the throne. (If = the whole thing isn't gone when that would have been an issue - as you say= royal houses are pretty redundant these days safe for all the jobs they c= reate for the tabloids!) Interesting discussion btw - I feel a sudden nee= d to explore the females in Tolkien more. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1712 Return-Path: X-Sender: purplemaeve@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69551 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 02:07:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 02:07:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.229) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 02:07:11 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h31so370816wxd.11 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:07:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.143.33.19 with SMTP id l19mr567717wfj.18.1208484427353; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.142.19 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:37:07 +0930 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Maeve Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Women in Tolkien's Stories (was: New member -- hello!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286967944; y=CXEa-MpNXv_eJx8T28I__atj_um-eKUUjrUgCd5ClIJ4d__IXaE X-Yahoo-Profile: purplemaeve On 17/04/2008, hrymfaxe wrote: > Now this may be a bit off-topic, but parliament did pass an act in > Denmark concerning this: "The Act of Succession of 27 March 1953 > introduced the possibility of female succession". That is why there > is a queen today and not a king. And I would like to think that if > the crown-prince's oldest child had been a daughter that she would > have been allowed to take the throne. (If the whole thing isn't gone > when that would have been an issue - as you say royal houses are > pretty redundant these days safe for all the jobs they create for the > tabloids!) > The act you refer to allowed Queen Margrethe to become Queen because were no eligible males but didn't make it law for females to become Queen if they had younger brothers. The last article tells what will happen. "Female Succession to the Throne Linked to the Constitution of 1953 there is a special Act of Succession, according to which women also have the right of succession to the Danish throne, but only secondarily." "Section 2 [Son or Daughter] (1) On the demise of a King the Throne shall pass to his son or daughter so that a son shall take precedence of a daughter, and where there are several children of the same sex the eldest child shall take precedence of a younger child." Digital Fairfax The Age Mary has a baby boy October 15, 2005 - 11:39AM TASMANIAN-born Crown Princess Mary of Denmark has given birth to a boy. Crown Prince Frederik was present at the birth of the boy, who will be second in line to the Danish throne. Mary gave birth to her first child at 1.57am (0957 AEST) today at Copenhagen University Hospital, two weeks before her due date. The Danish Palace said in a statement that both mother and baby were fine. The baby weighs 3.5kg (7 pounds, 7 ounces) and is 51 centimetres (20 inches) long. The palace has not yet released the baby's name, but he is likely to be named Christian. Since Christian II, who died in 1559, Danish kings have alternately carried the name Christian or Frederik. The royal family traces its lineage back to the Viking king Gorm the Old, who died in 958. In line with a Danish tradition to mark a royal birth, 21 gun shots will be fired at noon (2000 AEST) today from batteries in Copenhagen and from the Kronborg Castle, north of Copenhagen. In the evening (tomorrow AEST), the Danish Home Guard will light some 350 bonfires across the country. Mary has had a relatively problem-free pregnancy, maintaining a busy schedule until she was admitted to hospital with contractions on September 13. Since then, she has been resting under doctor's orders. The royal couple did not reveal the baby's sex during Mary's pregnancy, prompting the Danish Parliament to take steps to change the country's succession law to allow for a female heir to the throne. The legislation was due to be discussed this month. Born in Australia as Mary Donaldson, the 33-year-old married Queen Margrethe II's eldest son Frederik, 37, in a lavish ceremony in Copenhagen's Lutheran Cathedral in May last year. The couple met in a bar during the 2000 Olympics in Sydney. The crown princess has said she wants to break royal tradition and be a hands-on parent when her child is born. AAP >From New Zealand News Females get the nod in Denmark Jun 3, 2006 10:06 AM The Danish parliament has unanimously voted in favour of a new royal succession law that would allow a first-born child to one day ascend the throne regardless of whether it is a boy or a girl. Before entering into force the bill must also be voted through the next parliament, which should be elected in general elections to be held in less than four years, before finally being submitted to a referendum. At least 40% of registered voters must be in favour of the law change for it to be adopted. The issue rose in importance last year when Crown Prince Fredrik and his Australian-born wife Mary were expecting their first child and the gender was still unknown. The princess gave birth in October to a son, Christian. Under the current law, if their first child had been a girl she would have been forced to cede the throne to the couple's first-born boy. Maeve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1713 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70262 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2008 19:13:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2008 19:13:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n52c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.186) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2008 19:13:20 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n52.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2008 19:13:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2008 19:13:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2008 19:13:20 -0000 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:13:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Announce: yes X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Special Notice: Archive Changing to Public Status X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ij4lKvGe19KXTCmf-3f5I1ixsffhLFEow22DYAZkCIr2LOLPgpZN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Greetings, all, I don't send out many special announcements (actually, I t= hink this might be the first ever), but I want everyone to be aware of the = upcoming change on our Yahoo! Groups message archive. As some of you proba= bly remember, we voted back in January to change our Yahoo! message archive= from members-only to public. This means that messages posted to our Yahoo!= group will be able to be read by the public. Full information on the chang= e, security issues, and other concerns that were brought up is addressed in= our FAQ here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/about/faq/faq27.php= If you have ever posted to the Yahoo! group, then you should have receive= d a message yesterday from the moderator email account about this change. I= apologize for the repetition, but I want to make sure that the word is out= to everyone. The Yahoo! message archive will be viewable to the public be= ginning 1 June 2008. As discussed earlier, we are willing to delete any me= mber's past messages that s/he does not want being made public. Please cont= act our mods at moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org with the message num= bers you would like deleted. This offer is good for as long as the SWG Yaho= o! group is in existence. If you have contacted us already about having a m= essage deleted, then we have done so. However, any messages posted after t= his message is received in the group will NOT be deleted except for in very= limited and special circumstances. Please keep in mind that anything share= d on this list will be available to the public beginning on 1 June 2008. A= s discussed, in a year's time, we will revisit this issue, and the membersh= ip of SWG will be allowed the option of changing the message archive back t= o members-only status. If you have any questions at all, please feel free = to direct them to me personally at DawnFelagund@gmail.com or to our moderat= ors at moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org. If we can be at any help at = all during this transition, please let us know. Best regards, Dawn Felagu= nd From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1714 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13033 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 13:20:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 13:20:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.228) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 13:20:30 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 36so2362480wra.24 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:20:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.55.1 with SMTP id h1mr6371797wak.207.1209388829394; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:20:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:20:29 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9235_11321875.1209388829388" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Known Bugs on Archive after This Morning's Upgrade X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=LJ_QtI2BNhU-N1rxJceuJm-pJUcgsBADhmX8Mrlb8AHRfNw05Yyk X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_9235_11321875.1209388829388-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1715 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64006 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 17:12:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 17:12:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.120) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 17:12:36 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 59130 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2008 17:12:35 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: VaV10RAVM1nnTpZEhMgLYy.QCH2e8T63TbMfWdM4oN5qM5ZJrkGreMpLWRXytA8muPT8FDAkM6iX14beeZ8_AcduZ6noehsQp6_Qn.E9nTcxojgk25AcCLBzB1I- X-Received: from [24.9.80.54] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 01 May 2008 10:12:35 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.185 Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 10:12:35 -0700 (PDT) To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <874519.58999.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Reply-To: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com Subject: May Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=raA8lr0Zqhj-yVudfN7v43xb_aCZlwn8eFnFubAUhb0MXLNrWl93xZA X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore
Maeglin is actually my favorite ch= aracter....www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin  I can not get enough of w= riting about him=B4...that is why the rather dark stories are getting latel= y out of my fingers ...
 
Indeed Maeglin had mo= re than Idril in mind when he opened the gates of Gondolin to let Morgoth i= n. I guess becoming king was nearly the same important to him then&nbs= p;this elleth with her light hair.  I could see him, mi= nd darkened due to Idril having wed that mortal that he did not like at all= , that if he had had a chance to lay his hands on Gil Galad, he might have = done something.
 
I consider him when it comes t= o power just like any other emperor relative or princeling that longs for t= he throne. Just think that all the sons of the house of Habsburg went to wa= sh their hair in a locked room, because they worried one of their brothers = would stab them otherwise..and of Maeglin we know that he wanted - in his d= esperate state of mind - even end E=E4rendil's life...so Gil Galad would ha= ve been another one to be pushed out of the way on his road to kingship.
 
Just my two pennies...
 
<= DIV>Marina
 
----= ---Original Message-------
 
Date: 07/14/07 17:26:25
<= DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt">To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogr= oups.com
Subject:<= /B> Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Gil-Galad's daddy
 

In a message dated 7/14/2007 8:05:37 AM E= astern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes:
Now if I'd get more hours in a= day to write, that would be perfect. :)
Maeglin is such an interesting = character to write, everytime he pops
up he keeps on surprising me.
<= /FONT>
I'm learning about reduced time per day since I've been r= unning over to my daughter's every day to see the baby.

*quietly adds said bunny t= o her writing list* Your birthday is almost
a year away, so I probably c= ould make it :)
Oh! That would be exciting.


 
 



Get a sneak peak of the all= -new AOL.com.

=
 
Greetings everyone!

Once upon a time ago, we used to = poke everyone monthly to announce that the newsletter was available (especi= ally helpful for those like me that forget about new challenges and such if= not reminded!). Aaaand, I've been slacking a bit on that front, but have f= inally gotten my behind fully in gear!

So, the newsletter is availa= ble both here:
http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/122451.h= tml

and here:
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsle= tter.php

:D

~T=E1rion

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1716 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15579 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 17:52:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 17:52:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.190) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 17:52:00 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id e13so634235rng.16 for ; Thu, 01 May 2008 10:52:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.149.2 with SMTP id w2mr2133492wad.158.1209664319953; Thu, 01 May 2008 10:51:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Thu, 1 May 2008 10:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:51:59 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <874519.58999.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10039_30894878.1209664319942" References: <874519.58999.qm@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] May Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=OnfcKSlTHGYfiVfAmIsQzLpqYg28RlpfFjG0t4hh-OvObzQ7fEty X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_10039_30894878.1209664319942-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1717 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11097 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 18:05:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 18:05:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.190) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 18:05:53 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id v46so516777rnb.5 for ; Thu, 01 May 2008 11:05:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.151.13 with SMTP id y13mr2134632wad.134.1209665152193; Thu, 01 May 2008 11:05:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Thu, 1 May 2008 11:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:05:52 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10108_27471078.1209665152159" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Archive Challenge Listings X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5j-2irdAdLhYVHSxNTVpk_0RPF6lRYQkjhPlk8QST4pdcjeoBs3r X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_10108_27471078.1209665152159-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1718 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88024 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 18:09:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 18:09:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 18:09:08 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c00.31705c60 (48552) for ; Thu, 1 May 2008 14:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:09:39 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1209665379" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Archive Challenge Listings X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=W6sWOOUtw0SdzVYXaE74etsfMnsUTGBnLAJND1umt-BverBG8OgH X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1209665379 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, great. Glad that's fixed. I noted it earlier when I went to place a story in this month's challenge. Going to check now to see how it looks. Thanks to both you and Rhapsody for the quick action! **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) -------------------------------1209665379 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Oh, great. Glad t= hat's fixed. I noted it earlier when I went to place a story in this month= 's challenge. Going to check now to see how it looks. Thanks to both you a= nd Rhapsody for the quick action!



Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car li= stings at AOL Autos.
-------------------------------1209665379-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1719 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66528 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 18:14:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 18:14:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 18:14:13 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d0e.289400e3 (48552) for ; Thu, 1 May 2008 14:14:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:14:36 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1209665676" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Archive Challenge Listings X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=NzNV0J9kkoRw8LXHe4m-_Wxfqq2lqi5qqvdWYmCM79szDNJjfDct X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1209665676 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The old challenge archive looked good to me with just a quick check. I did notice, however, that this month's challenge "Inventions" has not been added yet to the drop-down list to choose from. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) -------------------------------1209665676 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
The old challenge= archive looked good to me with just a quick check. I did notice, however,= that this month's challenge "Inventions" has not been added yet to the dr= op-down list to choose from.



Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings= at AOL Autos.
-------------------------------1209665676-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1720 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76932 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 18:16:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 18:16:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.180) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 18:16:09 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id l24so155916waf.11 for ; Thu, 01 May 2008 11:16:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.197.1 with SMTP id u1mr2139920waf.229.1209665769070; Thu, 01 May 2008 11:16:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Thu, 1 May 2008 11:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:16:09 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10126_14650288.1209665769063" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Archive Challenge Listings X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=LrbA9Bic52cLd2aa9G1aPIOHwpaooBCErAB-Dhfz9tngKXFKrQHf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_10126_14650288.1209665769063-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1721 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99159 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 18:18:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 18:18:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 18:18:25 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c63.2f33d7ab (48552) for ; Thu, 1 May 2008 14:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:18:42 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1209665922" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Archive Challenge Listings X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=FiCbYjp8jzSITrLJRizFf7IxkHmMbnE5f5ui9tdYgTGhd9dAfxFL X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1209665922 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/1/2008 1:16:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: Incidentally, adding "Inventions" to the list is what I was attempting to do when I deleted the whole darned thing last night! I already promised Rhapsody I'd be more careful the second time around. ;) I'm sure you'll do just fine! Stating that would be a certain jinx for me, however, I would for sure delete it a second time! **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) -------------------------------1209665922 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 5/1/2008 1:16:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com = writes:
Incidentally, adding "Inve= ntions" to the list is what I was attempting to do when I deleted the wh= ole darned thing last night! I already promised Rhapsody I'd be more car= eful the second time around. ;)
I'm sure you'll do just fine! Stating that would be a certain jinx f= or me, however, I would for sure delete it a second time!

=

Need a new ride? Check out the largest s= ite for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.
-------------------------------1209665922-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1722 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17660 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 18:20:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 18:20:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n12.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.139) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 18:20:19 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.90] by n12.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2008 18:20:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2008 18:20:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2008 18:20:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 18:20:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Archive Challenge Listings X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=DaMGhxGYj4qnbC4lcMkJCv7OZ7H5xQkSbXe5a8VD3zVlBy3P_oMw9yo X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > The old challenge archive looked good to me with just a quick check. I > = did notice, however, that this month's challenge "Inventions" has not > be= en added yet to the drop-down list to choose from. Feel free to go there a= gain to add it... It's up. I am sorry for the delay, but dinner, a duckling= invasion/duck soap opera in my backyard and an =FCber excited 2 year old c= ame in between. Rhapsody :c) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1723 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65039 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 18:22:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 18:22:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 18:22:07 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cd7.2e531b2a (48552) for ; Thu, 1 May 2008 14:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:22:39 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1209666159" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Archive Challenge Listings X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=nPIKtCqYR9iHthhJs1XYTyaehGg-v65v834egDYhhEZM2tqLlNEB X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1209666159 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 5/1/2008 1:21:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody7= 4@gmail.com writes: duck soap opera in my backyard and an =FCber excited = 2 year old came in between. Love that image! **************Need a n= ew ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Auto= s. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=3Daolcmp00300000002851) -------------------------------1209666159 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
In a messa= ge dated 5/1/2008 1:21:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com w= rites:
duck soap opera in my backyardand an =FCber excited 2 year old came in between.
=
 
Love that image!

=

Need a new ride? Check out the largest s= ite for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.
-------------------------------1209666159-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1724 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9618 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 18:22:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 18:22:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 18:22:37 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n7so928452wag.13 for ; Thu, 01 May 2008 11:22:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.77.1 with SMTP id z1mr2160689waa.123.1209666157512; Thu, 01 May 2008 11:22:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Thu, 1 May 2008 11:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:22:37 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10131_27629628.1209666157500" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Archive Challenge Listings X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=z9m6skuc8ou7zuFcK7VQk9Wt4e02QTK2ynIIfyjqTXWgajJ_orQC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_10131_27629628.1209666157500-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1725 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16695 invoked from network); 2 May 2008 21:34:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2008 21:34:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n52d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.78) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2008 21:34:01 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n52.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2008 21:34:01 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2008 21:34:01 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2008 21:34:01 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 21:34:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: New chapter up for "Don't Explain" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=jmjHcMr9G6rWK0WgMArYhW9d_vgkB-NpPGA8yfip5cPGnPY X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Trying to finish this!!! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1726 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77828 invoked from network); 3 May 2008 19:30:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2008 19:30:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n24b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.235) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2008 19:30:55 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n24.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 May 2008 19:30:55 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 May 2008 19:30:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 May 2008 19:30:53 -0000 Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 19:30:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: SSP: Chapter 11 posted for "Don't Explain" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=qd2M4hIOB1icE-LdhMw9h9KPfyPhK3Eda0JKFueoxrcJvEs X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Yep, another one: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/vie= wstory.php?sid=3D314 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1727 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67940 invoked from network); 4 May 2008 19:37:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2008 19:37:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2008 19:37:48 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so315791waf.0 for ; Sun, 04 May 2008 12:37:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.102.1 with SMTP id z1mr4989756wab.56.1209929868000; Sun, 04 May 2008 12:37:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.54.5 with HTTP; Sun, 4 May 2008 12:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 15:37:47 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_16963_26909031.1209929867986" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: 2008 MEFA Nominations Now Open! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Ak-F2GgI7_je5p0Wb8p8x8f-wu1FWGSBwXF4QRprmSW_Hgq-nBZB X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_16963_26909031.1209929867986-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1728 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57409 invoked from network); 4 May 2008 19:38:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2008 19:38:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n10.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.137) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2008 19:38:19 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n10.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2008 19:38:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2008 19:38:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2008 19:38:18 -0000 Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 19:38:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: SSP: New Chapter Posted for "Don't Explain" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=NTY11wIKmuLGpYNubqzrO8RNPMw6PTlv9puoLyocB6jHt1s X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Coming down the home stretch now (I think!): Indis comes face to face with= M=EDriel. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1729 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93172 invoked from network); 6 May 2008 22:22:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2008 22:22:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.172) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2008 22:22:53 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2008 22:22:53 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2008 22:22:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2008 22:22:53 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 22:22:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: SSP: Opus of the tales untold *New story* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=8k4p6QjaaKvh-pj-OTkgCeK54ZLM7HdOw9d6_KtCMuWs-Q-rteW78fXZEg X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Category: Silmarillion Title: Opus of the tales untold Genre: General/Adven= ture Rating: Fiction Rated: M Summary: What happened to Maglor? Does Elured= and Elurin live? Did the sons of Elrond choose the doom of man or the fat= e of the eldar? Find out in the Opus of the tales untold! URL: http://www= .fanfiction.net/s/4240187/1/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1730 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42760 invoked from network); 8 May 2008 17:19:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 May 2008 17:19:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.244) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 May 2008 17:19:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2008 17:19:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2008 17:19:24 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 17:19:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Fingolfin" Subject: Fic: In Dreams 1/1 Glorfindel/Fingolfin, Erestor/Elrond PG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=5sZIHJddksLUwUPr97ZCgLJ2Z-D4DjQ7zL0fhPew_7ox X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 Title: In Dreams Author: phyncke For: tripledogdare (livejournal) Challen= ge: First Impressions Beta: khylea Email: jhfink@sbcglobal.net Rating: PG = Pairing(s): Glorfindel/Fingolfin, Erestor/Elrond Warnings: none Setting:= Valinor after the 3rd Age Summary: Sometimes the Valar know what is best = and two old friends find love. ** denotes italics THE DREAM=85 It was = a field of golden flowers, long stems swaying in the wind, a fire-like ripp= le effect. He walked a while and thus when he tired he lay down. It was see= mingly without end and he took comfort in the cool grass beneath his back. = It cushioned him nicely, allowing him to drift off to sleep. He woke when h= e felt the shadow over his face, and squinted up to see who was there, havi= ng not sensed any danger. Indeed there was none here in this paradise. "Y= ou will see me soon." A silhouette wreathed in sunlight. He could not dist= inguish the other elf's features but could see he had golden hair. Vanyar? = "Who are you?" "That does not matter now." "Of course it matters. Tell = me who you..=85." "You already know in your heart." With that cryptic sta= tement, the elf walked away and when Fingolfin sat up to follow him there w= as no trace that another being had ever been there. AWAKENING=85 What = a curious dream. It was dark outside now as Fingolfin lay resting on the do= wny coverlet trying to shake the fog from his mind. As he sat up on the bed= , the impression of the flowers was still in his mind; the golden aura, the= scent of clean air and sweet grass. He felt anticipation but dismissed it = as dread of the event he must attend that evening. His descendent, Elrond, = had arrived with a party of elves from the hinter lands. It was a joyous o= ccasion and most of Tirion would be turned out in style. He really was not = good at these mingling soirees. He did not have the comfortable social grac= e, neither the desire, nor the patience for it. "Late, I am late." He m= uttered to the empty room and launched out of the bed to ready himself. If = he had to go, he would make a fine showing. *You already know in your hea= rt."* Those words were echoing in his mind. His heart always felt so cold.= It would take=85.well best not to dwell on it. Arrival=85.. Glorfindel= teased Erestor mercilessly about how long it had taken him to get ready. = "You primp like a female! It is astounding!" "Glorfindel, one must alway= s take care with one's appearance." "You stood in front of that mirror fo= r well more than an hour. That is a record, even for you, counselor=85." "= These things take time." Erestor stated succinctly, smoothing down his clot= hing as he walked. The warrior laughed heartily at that and responded aci= dly. "I look fine and I took a fraction of the time you took to get ready.= Ask Elrond. He will tell you." The trio strode rapidly down the corridor= in Finarfin's palace as the honored guests, the reason for this elven gath= ering. They were the most recent arrivals to Valinor and this was a celebra= tion in their honor. Elrond called back to them as he led them through th= e marbled halls. "Do not involve me in this argument, I refuse to be draw= n in. We are almost there, so straighten up and behave both of you=85..all = my relations are here and=85well, just mind what you say. You especially, G= lorfindel=85.." Stopping in a cluster at the arched doorway, the former h= erald of the High King and Lord of Imladris surveyed his two advisors criti= cally. They would do, they would do quite well. He was proud to be seen wit= h them. Glorfindel was handsome in his dark blue tunic with matching legg= ings. His boots were polished to a shine and his hair cascaded over his sho= ulders like a golden waterfall. Heads turned as they entered the room. Eres= tor's dark eyes flashed as he picked at his silver buttons matched perfectl= y to the deeper silver hue of his long robes. "They are staring at us, my= Lord. Have they never seen three elves before? It is rude beyond measure."= Elrond chuckled. "You forget, my dear friend. There is not much here to = keep them occupied. We are bound to fascinate them. Chin up. Mingle. Mix. W= e are here to enjoy ourselves." Glorfindel said nothing as he surveyed the= crowded room. The wine was flowing, people were laughing and the party was= in full swing. Other Imladrians were scattered amongst the crowd. Lindir w= as over by the musicians, which was no surprise, getting to know them and s= eeing where he might fit in here with the Valinor minstrels. Elrond's capta= in could not escape the feeling that something was going to happen. It was = not foreboding, but prescience. It suffused his body and made him a little = more aware than usual. He nabbed a goblet off a tray as a server hurried by= for the other side of the room. It was going to be an interesting night.= READY=85 Buttoning down the last button, he assessed his appearance in= the mirror. Serious grey eyes reflected back at him. So very serious. Even= time in paradise had not lightened his spirit. He needed=85.he needed=85..= gah=85.he did not know what he needed=85..and that dream. *You already kno= w in your heart."* How very vexing. He was annoyed and he had not even got= ten to the damned event yet. His raven hair was braided simply in one plai= t at the back, bound with a jeweled sapphire clasp though this did not keep= a few strands from falling into his face haphazardly. Try as he might, it = would not all stay where it was supposed to. He had chosen a cobalt blue tu= nic for this night, with silver detailing. Very Noldo. Why disguise what he= was? He'd returned from Mandos, this was true. He was reborn but he still = looked every inch the high king he had been. He could not really change his= bearing or his history. Why try? Pulling the door closed with a click, he= began the walk out of his house and to the ballroom at his brother's palac= e. It was a short distance through Tirion and the night, as usual, was mil= d. Such weather added to the monotony of Valinor. There was little change. = No inclement weather, no storms. No variation. It was indeed paradise. Fi= ngolfin's thoughts wandered as he walked. He had been restless since his re= birth. Incomplete. He found things too calm in this new life and often caug= ht himself pondering on all he had done before. While war was unfortunate, = it did keep one busy. At times he even longed for Beleriand. There he had f= elt a sense of purpose. He entered the palace and nodded at the butler who= inclined his head respectfully. He was a frequent visitor to his brother's= residence. The building was alight with lanterns and candles for the occas= ion, polished to a fine shine. He wound his way through the long marbled co= rridors, finding himself at the entrance to the grand ballroom. *Breathe.= Just breathe.* SIGHT=85 He caught sight of him ere he was noticed him= self. The high king was a striking figure in Noldor colors, elegantly turne= d out, almost black hair shining though errantly haloing his face. He liked= that imperfection. Glorfindel's azure eyes twinkled at the observation. Er= estor was talking to him, but the golden warrior was careful to look over h= is friend's shoulder as Fingolfin took up his place next to Finarfin at the= front. Glorfindel had not seen him since the long march and that was at = a distance since he himself had been at the rear of that host. Fingolfin c= ut quite a figure. Formidable, intense=85. *"You already know in your hear= t."* Those words hung at the fringes of his mind as he looked at wise-Finw= e. Fingolfin turned and leveled a penetrating gaze at him over his wine gla= ss. "You are not listening, Glorfindel. I find it most irksome." Erestor= was annoyed. Woe be unto him. Glorfindel turned his focus back to Imladris= ' chief counselor but not before the look between the two elves had been no= ticed. "You are playing with fire there, my friend. That is the High King.= " "Former and I know." "He is not to be trifled with." "I know." "That = is your usual way." Erestor pointed out. "This is different." That state= ment was met with silence and one raised eyebrow. FRUSTRATION=85 An e= lf wreathed in gold. That is all he saw and here he was mired in this borin= g conversation about council meetings. Finarfin had reminded him of his obl= igations and he dutifully mingled with Tirion's finest elves and the politi= cally connected. "And with that amendment added the motion was carried fo= rward=85." Fingolfin nodded and sipped casually at his wine, following the= movements of the golden haired elf. He knew who that was. One of Turgon's = allies =85.Glorfindel, though by all accounts he had been reborn to Middle = Earth which was rare indeed. His eyes seemed to capture the essence of the = sky and his lips so full, lush. He imagined how pliant they might be, an od= d thought for him to have. *"You already know in your heart."* "And what= is your position, Lord Fingolfin?" Looking up with a start, he replied sa= fely. "I will have to study the issue further before commenting." The co= unsel member nodded his agreement and moved on. He could breathe again and = when he looked up the golden one was gone. He could not help but feel disap= pointment. That was when he felt the touch at his elbow. "You handled tha= t rather well, I think, for someone who was not really listening." The voi= ce was deep, and amused. LOVE=85 Erestor watched as Glorfindel approach= ed the unsuspecting king. They made a striking pair, a contrast in opposite= s. He had to admit that much. Frowning down, he watched his wine swirl agai= nst the inside of the goblet. "I would do anything to ease your worry. He= will be fine, you know. His heart must find its home=85.." A gentle voice= , and understanding met him in the slate grey eyes of his lord. "You know= me, my lord, I worry about such things. Even now when there is no cause to= ." "It made you a very vigilant adviser to me for all those long years in = Imladris but now is the time for us to relax a little. Let Glorfindel be. H= e might be just what the High King needs=85you never know who might be attr= acted." Elrond gave Erestor a pointed look wondering if he would catch his= meaning. For someone so intelligent, he could be so obtuse sometimes. It w= as charming really. He sipped his wine and just let his eyes speak for him.= He could not hold back his feelings anymore. Now that they were in the Und= ying Lands, there was no need. Celebrian had no interest in renewing their= marriage as she spent her time healing or in solitude. He hoped that now E= restor might=85 The counselor almost dropped his wine as he took Elrond's = meaning, shivering in a room that was not at all cold. There was no mistaki= ng him, or that look of longing. Could it be that he felt something for him= more than friendship? Erestor's large black eyes fixed on Elrond's. "My = lord=85." "Call me Elrond." "Elrond=85." "I would rather you call me som= ething else altogether=85." "And that is?" "Your love. I have harbored fe= elings for you these long years and cannot keep quiet any longer=85." Eres= tor looked around them and it occurred to him that this was not the place f= or this discussion. They needed privacy and intimacy. "Shh=85my love, we = cannot speak of this here and we have the long night to get through." He mo= ved close enough to whisper in his ear. "Please know that I return your fee= lings=85" Elrond let out a sigh of relief, looking around them. "Thank t= he Valar, Erestor. I have waited for you for so long." "You have but a few= hours more." "I think I can manage." "I have never seen a room full of s= o many kings. It is alarming, don't you think?" Erestor spoke more loudly = moving away from Elrond, drinking lightly in what he hoped was a casual man= ner. They were soon interrupted by a Tirion counsel member seeking their pa= rticipation in the local government sessions. Erestor dealt with him easily= while his lord observed. It was going to be a long night. Minutes seemed l= ike hours and hours, like millennia=85 A HORRIBLE FLIRT=85 "You were loo= king for me before and you were looking at me when first you came in." The= se were not questions. Glorfindel stated these things as though they were f= acts as his blue eyes sparkled. Fingolfin coughed into his wine. How forwa= rd! His lips turned up with amusement. He had little experience with flirti= ng, but he knew when someone was. "You are sure of this? Perhaps it was t= he person you were with? Or someone behind you?" "No, there was no mistaki= ng it. You were NOT looking at Erestor." Glorfindel put down his goblet an= d reached for two more as the waiter passed. He moved like lightening and h= anded the high king a fresh glass of wine. Fingolfin placed his empty one o= n the table and nodded. "Thank you." He looked at this presumptuous elf,= feeling every nerve-ending awaken. He was attracted to this golden elf. H= e had never known anything like it. Not with Anair=EB=85.nor with anyone el= se but it was something more. *"You already know in your heart."* He had = no experience with other males and didn't doubt that Glorfindel was more so= phisticated than he in matters of love. He had that assurance about him, an= elegance that Fingolfin never felt. He did already know. "Why are you bo= thering with me? I am not your type." "You looked well surrounded by the g= olden flower, beautiful and at peace." "How can you=85.?" The question di= ed on his lips as Glorfindel spoke his next words. "You already know in y= our heart." Fingolfin frowned silently taking a long gulp of his wine, tr= ying to digest the fact that the words in his mind had been uttered aloud. = "Are you toying with me? I will not be so=85." Moving so he was almost = touching him, the warrior brought his lips close to his ear. "There are m= any I could toy with but not you=85" Fingolfin could feel the hint of warm= breath on his skin in that whisper. The music was playing, his family was = there and it all faded into the background. Glorfindel was close enough for= him to touch. "I am=85." "Frightened?" At his nod, Glorfindel brushed = his soft lips briefly over his skin and backed up to look into his eyes. "= I will keep your heart safe. Now that I have found you, I will not let you = go." Fingolfin's gaze noticeably altered at that. It softened and there w= as a look of hope that had been missing before. SOMEWHERE ELSE IN VALINO= R=85 Est=EB detected a look of smugness cross over the visage of her belov= ed as they sat to dinner that evening. They had a wonderfully appointed gaz= ebo outside and took their repast in the serenity of the garden. "What ha= ve you done, my love, to make you look so accomplished." L=F3rien served h= imself some bread and salad, his smile widening. "How astute of you to no= tice, my dear. I have just been helping the elves a little bit. Don't want= them being lonely here, you know." "Now, what have you done?" She well k= new her husband's propensity to meddle and wondered who the beneficiaries w= ere this time. The Lord of Dreams proceeded to tell her of the joint visi= ons of the high king and the golden warrior and their blossoming love. He w= as quite pleased with the poetic nature of it all and its simplicity. "Tw= o such formidable elves. Do you think that wise?" "I believe they need a c= hallenge, so why not in love?" "Indeed..." And the light trill of Est=EB'= s laughter carried through the fragrant trees. *The end or really the begi= nning* From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1731 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16519 invoked from network); 15 May 2008 03:09:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 May 2008 03:09:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2008 03:09:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2008 03:09:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2008 03:09:50 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 03:09:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: SSP: New Chapter Posted for "Don't Explain" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=oPPjEVIa4fjPcxlAykV49jyqCy2w2IbnbYEVYNBa5TePrtk X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Hello, I've got another chapter posted for this story. One more to go! ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/stories.php?action=3Dnew= chapter&sid=3D314&inorder=3D2 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1732 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55597 invoked from network); 18 May 2008 14:39:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2008 14:39:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.182) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2008 14:39:02 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so1579499wah.18 for ; Sun, 18 May 2008 07:39:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.126.1 with SMTP id y1mr6304792wac.108.1211121542656; Sun, 18 May 2008 07:39:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Sun, 18 May 2008 07:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 10:39:02 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20404_12904272.1211121542651" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: MEFA Hard-to-Reach Authors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=devvUAKOi-ITElKflrh4NS1DSMWQSwAkdEMwZVtUAaEBoq1p5MUx X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_20404_12904272.1211121542651-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1733 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79719 invoked from network); 19 May 2008 15:10:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2008 15:10:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.33) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2008 15:10:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 15:10:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 15:10:12 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:10:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="4-6788945232-8423960935=:1" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=uTXBQmXoD4SMnT2-DemuQjbRAlN8FCp_oWT73QPsGEa6VKE0_T5BHBCP X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --4-6788945232-8423960935=:1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If that title doesn't scream "Warning! Really Really -- and I mean Really = -- Extreme Nerdsomeness Ahead!" I don't know what will. ;^) Read at your o= wn risk. I'll apologize in advance for the use of the Black Speech a.k.a. = scientific jargon. So Dawn, in response to one of my comments on her super= b The Work of Small Hands, wrote the following: I'm really interested to h= ear--as SWG's resident scientist--what you think of the Darkening itself. T= his is something that I haven't seen treated often in Silmfic (at all, even= ?) aside from, "the Darkening happened and ... well, it was dark." But it m= ust have been so much more; talk about upending the biological scheme of th= ings, not to mention the psychological impact of sudden and complete darkne= ss to a people that had no clue what that was! (And probably never bothered= to think of what it meant for their actual survival ... and those that had= were probably all off rebelling with Feanor. ;) First, I'll bet (in fact = I am certain) I'm not the only scientist here, but surely I'm the oldest --= and most experienced -- one. :^D Dawn captured the impact of the Darkenin= g of Valinor in a very realistic fashion. The immediate effect would be d= eath of food crops. An analogous situation in our primary world would be= volcanic eruptions (also the speculative nuclear winter which is a horrifi= c scenario) that toss particulate matter into the atmosphere, thus diminish= ing sunlight and changing the climate. The percentage of decreased sunligh= t in this case is minor but with a major impact. So absolute darkness? Yi= kes! There's a saying (paraphrasing here - and uncertain as to attribution= ) that civilization is only three meals away from anarchy. Granted that th= e passage of time in Valinor is different than the Outer Lands and that the= Firstborn are physiologically more resistant to hardship compared to morta= ls, but they nonetheless have hroar that require food, sleep and -- at leas= t while living in the cyclical light patterns of the Trees have adapted to = circadian rhythms. The Darkening would have a horrific impact on them, let= alone the societal upheaval from the rebellion and the Kinslaying. Their = whole world (or simulacrum thereof) has been turned upside down. I expect = many here on the SWG are familiar with seasonal affective disorder (SAD)- = a clinically recognized form of mood disorder that occurs and remits with t= he change of seasons, i.e., exposure to light. The treatment (often succes= sful) for SAD is - wait for it - exposure to bright light. The incidence o= f SAD appears to be higher in northern latitudes and not surprisingly, ther= e appears to be a genetic component although I do not believe the specific = gene or gene cluster has been identified in humans (could be wrong here). = However, a recent paper (March 2008) in the Proceedings of the National Aca= demy of Sciences of the USA (PNAS or Pee-NAS as we scientific wags like to= call it) has shed some light (ha!) on what may be the molecular underpinni= ngs of SAD. Researchers at the University of Pennsylvania and the Scripps = Research Institute (La Jolla, California) reported the presence of apoptosi= s (programmed cell death) in the neurotransmitter systems in rats exposed t= o 6 weeks of constant darkness (I regret to say that yes, animals were harm= ed in these studies :^(, but unfortunately, there are no computer simulatio= ns or isolated in vitro cell systems that can come even close to replicatin= g the complexity of the mammalian nervous system). The rats exposed to pro= longed darkness exhibited anatomical and behavioral features similar to tha= t observed in humans. At the cellular level, the same rats' neurons assoc= iated with the neurotransmitters serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine wer= e damaged via programmed cell death* upon prolonged dark exposure. The ani= mals' body and adrenal gland weights remained the same which suggests lack = of other stressors. The authors of the study conclude that at least in rat= s, prolonged darkness results in damage to important neurotransmitter syste= ms and that the damage is associated with a depressive phenotype in the rat= s. The authors note that their results suggest a mechanism by which "prolo= nged limited light intensity could negatively impact mood." Although there= are obvious differences between rats and humans, there are also amazing bi= ological commonalities, including at the neurological level, so I'm not inc= lined to dismiss these results because these were performed in rats. But n= ow we have the gigantic extrapolation to an imaginary history /secondary wo= rld with humans that are "something more" than mortals. Yet Tolkien expli= citly states that Elves and Men are the same species, just different races.= So, based on this definition, Elves will also possess the same neurotrans= mitters that Men do so one might imagine that prolonged darkness will have = detrimental psychiatric effects on the Eldar as Dawn so aptly illustrates. = However, the Elves in the Outer Lands present a problem. They live in the= starlight if one operates with the cosmology of The Silmarillion, i.e., cr= eation of the sun and moon from the fruits of the Trees. Well, hey presto,= let's wave a biologically inclined wizard's wand and state this: the neur= ological systems of the Elves living in the Outer Lands have adapted to pro= longed dark (or have been created to handle the darkness - pick your belief= ). Perhaps their noradrenergic/serotonergic/dopaminergic systems were well= attuned to starlight. Of course, one wonders how they sustained their bod= ies on a steady diet of mushrooms ;^). On the other hand, the Elves in Val= inor have adapted to much brighter light - and light that displays a rhythm= ic pattern. Presumably, the circadian rhythms of the Valinorean Elves have= adapted to this. Therefore, the complete darkness upon the Trees' destruc= tion would likely wreck havoc on their mood -- and this is captured most ef= fectively in The Work of Small Hands! The neural systems of the Teleri of = Alqualond=EB are more problematic since they're sort of in a netherworld - = not as exposed to the Light of the Trees as the Noldor of Tirion and enviro= ns or the Vanyar. But they clearly crave light as Dawn describes since the= ir city is lit by the arts/technology of the Noldor. I'll throw up my hand= s in exasperation and look for the wizard's wand. I expect they're already= very traumatized by the kinslaying (also well articulated by Olw=EB's grie= f). Now marine organisms would be just as negatively impacted by lack of = light as the terrestrial - but this is fan fiction and an imaginary history= so I am perfectly willing to suspend belief here for the purposes of the t= ale. :^) Inevitably, this brings me back to Tolkien's essay on the Sun an= d the Moon in "Myths Transformed" (HoMe vol X). Tolkien had major problem= s with the darkness over the Outer Lands concept. Yavanna putting the anim= als and plants into stasis plus humans living in prolonged darkness just d= idn't work for him. My jaw dropped when I first read this essay on the Sun= and Moon. It's a testament to Tolkien's incredible power of imaginative w= orld-building and how he strived to connect his secondary world to our prim= ary one. If one accepts Tolkien's retrofitted cosmogony of the Sun and Moo= n and his fascinating concept of Valinor covered by Varda's domes (and lit = from within by the Trees), then the "biology" (and survival) of the Elves i= n the Outer Lands becomes much less problematic. Even if the sunlight is = dimmed in the northern latitudes by Morgoth-generated cloud cover, there's = still enough for plants to survive and for a day-night cycle to be apparent= . All this pedantic scientific reductionism notwithstanding (I confess -- = I am "fallen" and infected by the Morgoth-ingredient; I really want to know= the nitty gritty of how things work ;^)), I love reading the tales of Arie= n and Isil, the sun rising when Fingolfin arrives in Middle-earth and all t= he associated mythology. These are, in a word, enchanting. On the other h= and, as a scientist who loves to play under the Faerie Hill, I find Tolkien= 's essay in "Myths Transformed" to be incredibly satisfying. This brillian= t author thereby pulls me into his elvish drama that much more effectively.= But your mileage may vary. :^) *apoptosis or programmed cell death diffe= rs from cell necrosis that results from traumatic damage to cells. As impl= ied by the name, programmed cell death occurs from a precise sequence of ev= ents within the cells (and signaled from outside of the cell). An example = of apoptosis is the differentiation of our fingers and toes as fetuses. Th= e web of cells between digits die off through apoptosis so that we humans d= on't have webbed hands or feet. Now if you're a duck... --4-6788945232-8423960935=:1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If that title doesn't scream "Warning!  Really Really -- and I mean Really -- Extreme Nerdsomeness Ahead!" I don't know what will. ;^)&nbs= p;

Read at your own risk.  I'll apologize in advance for the u= se of the Black Speech a.k.a. scientific jargon.

So Dawn, in respons= e to one of my comments on her superb The Work of Small Hands, wrote= the following:

I'm really interested to hear--as SWG's resident = scientist--what you think of the Darkening itself. This is something that I= haven't seen treated often in Silmfic (at all, even?) aside from, "the Dar= kening happened and ... well, it was dark." But it must have been so much m= ore; talk about upending the biological scheme of things, not to mention th= e psychological impact of sudden and complete darkness to a people that had= no clue what that was! (And probably never bothered to think of what it me= ant for their actual survival ... and those that had were probably all off = rebelling with Feanor. ;)

First, I'll bet (in fact I am certain)= I'm not the only scientist here, but surely I'm the oldest -- and m= ost experienced -- one. :^D

Dawn captured the impact of the Darkenin= g of Valinor in a very realistic fashion.   The immediate effect = would be death of food crops.    An analogous situation in our pr= imary world would be volcanic eruptions (also the speculative nuclear winte= r which is a horrific scenario) that toss particulate matter into the atmos= phere, thus diminishing sunlight and changing the climate.  The percen= tage of decreased sunlight in this case is minor but with a major impact.&n= bsp; So absolute darkness?  Yikes!  

There's a sayin= g (paraphrasing here - and uncertain as to attribution) that civilization i= s only three meals away from anarchy.  Granted that the passage of tim= e in Valinor is different than the Outer Lands and that the Firstborn are p= hysiologically more resistant to hardship compared to mortals, but they non= etheless have hroar that require food, sleep and -- at least while l= iving in the cyclical light patterns of the Trees have adapted to circadian= rhythms.  The Darkening would have a horrific impact on them, let alo= ne the societal upheaval from the rebellion and the Kinslaying.  Their= whole world (or simulacrum thereof) has been turned upside down.

I = expect many here on the SWG are familiar with seasonal affective disorder&n= bsp; (SAD)- a clinically recognized form of mood disorder that occurs and r= emits with the change of seasons, i.e., exposure to light.  The treatm= ent (often successful) for SAD is - wait for it - exposure to bright light.=   The incidence of SAD appears to be higher in northern latitudes and = not surprisingly, there appears to be a genetic component although I do not= believe the specific gene or gene cluster has been identified in humans (c= ould be wrong here).

However, a recent paper (March 2008) in the Pro= ceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA (PNAS  or Pee-= NAS as we scientific wags like to call it) has shed some light (ha!) on wha= t may be the molecular underpinnings of SAD.  Researchers at the Unive= rsity of Pennsylvania and the Scripps Research Institute (La Jolla, Califor= nia) reported the presence of apoptosis (programmed cell death) in the neur= otransmitter systems in rats exposed to 6 weeks of constant darkness (I reg= ret to say that yes, animals were harmed in these studies :^(, but unfortun= ately, there are no computer simulations or isolated in vitro= cell systems that can come even close to replicating the complexity of the= mammalian nervous system).  

The rats exposed to prolong= ed darkness exhibited anatomical and behavioral features similar to = that observed in humans.  At the cellular level,  the same rats' = neurons associated with the neurotransmitters serotonin, norepinephrine and= dopamine were damaged via programmed cell death* upon prolonged dark expos= ure.  The animals' body and adrenal gland weights remained the same wh= ich suggests lack of other stressors.  The authors of the study conclu= de that at least in rats, prolonged darkness results in damage to important= neurotransmitter systems and that the damage is associated with a depressi= ve phenotype in the rats.  The authors note that their results suggest= a mechanism by which "prolonged limited light intensity could negatively i= mpact mood."

Although there are obvious differences between rats and= humans, there are also amazing biological commonalities, including at the = neurological level, so I'm not inclined to dismiss these results because th= ese were performed in rats.

But now we have the gigantic extr= apolation to an imaginary history /secondary world with humans that are "so= mething more" than mortals.   Yet Tolkien explicitly states that = Elves and Men are the same species, just different races.  So, based o= n this definition, Elves will also possess the same neurotransmitters that = Men do so one might imagine that prolonged darkness will have detrimental p= sychiatric effects on the Eldar as Dawn so aptly illustrates.

Howeve= r, the Elves in the Outer Lands present a problem.  They live in the s= tarlight if one operates with the cosmology of The Silmarillion, i.e= ., creation of the sun and moon from the fruits of the Trees.  Well, h= ey presto, let's wave a biologically inclined wizard's wand and state this:=   the neurological systems of the Elves living in the Outer Lands have= adapted to prolonged dark (or have been created to handle the darkness - p= ick your belief).  Perhaps their noradrenergic/serotonergic/dopaminerg= ic systems were well attuned to starlight.  Of course, one wonders how= they sustained their bodies on a steady diet of mushrooms ;^).

On t= he other hand, the Elves in Valinor have adapted to much brighter light - a= nd light that displays a rhythmic pattern.  Presumably, the circadian = rhythms of the Valinorean Elves have adapted to this.  Therefore, the = complete darkness upon the Trees' destruction would likely wreck havoc on t= heir mood -- and this is captured most effectively in The Work of Small = Hands!

The neural systems of the Teleri of Alqualond=EB are more= problematic since they're sort of in a netherworld - not as exposed to the= Light of the Trees as the Noldor of Tirion and environs or the Vanyar.&nbs= p; But they clearly crave light as Dawn describes since their city i= s lit by the arts/technology of the Noldor.  I'll throw up my hands in= exasperation and look for the wizard's wand.  I expect they're alread= y very traumatized by the kinslaying (also well articulated by Olw=EB's gri= ef).   Now marine organisms would be just as negatively impacted = by lack of light as the terrestrial - but this is fan fiction and an= imaginary history so I am perfectly willing to suspend belief here for the= purposes of the tale. :^)

Inevitably, this brings me back to Tolkie= n's essay  on the Sun and the Moon in "Myths Transformed" (HoMe vol X)= .   Tolkien had major problems with the darkness over the = Outer Lands concept.  Yavanna putting the animals and plants into stas= is  plus humans living in prolonged darkness just didn't work for him.=   My jaw dropped when I first read this essay on the Sun and Moon.&nbs= p; It's a testament to Tolkien's incredible power of imaginative world-buil= ding and how he strived to connect his secondary world to our primary one.&= nbsp;

If one accepts Tolkien's retrofitted cosmogony of the Sun and= Moon and his fascinating concept of Valinor covered by Varda's domes (and = lit from within by the Trees), then the "biology" (and survival) of the Elv= es in the Outer Lands becomes much less problematic.   Eve= n if the sunlight is dimmed in the northern latitudes by Morgoth-generated = cloud cover, there's still enough for plants to survive and for a day-night= cycle to be apparent.

All this pedantic scientific reductionism not= withstanding (I confess -- I am "fallen" and infected by the Morgoth-ingred= ient; I really want to know the nitty gritty of how things work ;^)), I lov= e reading the tales of Arien and Isil, the sun rising when Fingolfin arrive= s in Middle-earth and all the associated mythology.   These are, = in a word, enchanting. On the other hand, as a scientist who loves to play = under the Faerie Hill, I find Tolkien's essay in "Myths Transformed" to be = incredibly satisfying.  This brilliant author thereby pulls me into hi= s elvish drama that much more effectively.  But your mileage may vary.= :^)

*apoptosis or programmed cell death differs from cell necrosis = that results from traumatic damage to cells.  As implied by the name, = programmed cell death occurs from a precise sequence of events within the c= ells (and signaled from outside of the cell).  An example of apoptosis= is the differentiation of our fingers and toes as fetuses.  The web o= f cells between digits die off through apoptosis so that we humans don't ha= ve webbed hands or feet.  Now if you're a duck...




<= br>
--4-6788945232-8423960935=:1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1734 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61050 invoked from network); 19 May 2008 16:19:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2008 16:19:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2008 16:19:19 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c38.302d5c1b (39329) for ; Mon, 19 May 2008 12:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 12:19:04 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1211213944" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darknes... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=4obMQNop4j_yzUVIjd3lwMfjCz9Z4y6uptZsjNWAOrTRvc33wB5f X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1211213944 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Really fascinating insights. I love the magic and also adore the images of = the coming of the moon and sun. Have dealt with both in my stories to a d= egree. On the other hand, elves living under starlight for all those gene= rations absolutely drove me crazy. Almost equally disturbing to me on = some basic emotionally reactive level was the apparent lack of extreme di= fferentiation between the golden light of Laurelin and the silver light o= f Telperion (the mingling of lights, wow! what an image, however--shimmer= ing and absolutely enchanting is the way I like to imagine it). I have al= ways chosen in my stories to imagine the light of Telperion to be a great= deal less intense than the descriptions in the text might indicate. I fo= und it very difficult to imagine that there could be a world without dark= ness, any more than I could imagine a world completely without night. Wh= en reading Dawn's story, I couldn't help but remember the blackout in New = York City in August of 2003. I left Manhattan on foot in the late afternoo= n. It was well over 90F and there was no other way to get back to Brookl= yn other than to walk (about ten miles on blisteringly hot city sidewalks= --thank god I didn't wear heels that day). I also have a bad knee. So I w= alked very slowly. I stopped a lot and even dropped by my daughter's work= place on the Lower East Side to see if she had left yet and sat around ta= lking to people for a while there. It was a fascinating experience, since= it had been fully dark for quite a while before I reached home. For most= of last stretch, the only lights I saw at all were the occasional lanter= n, battery operated or kerosene and the occasional candle in a window or = people grilling on hibachis on the sidewalks. It was dark in a way I had = never expected to find in the city. No one expected it to last, so the at= mosphere was overall one of adventure/carnival. Totally different from wh= at one would expect in Tirion, for example, after the loss of the light o= f the two trees. Special adaptation to living under starlight?? I also r= ecall a trip I made from Bolivia to Peru, on a small, rather broken-down = bus some 20 years ago or so. Passing through large areas of northern Boli= via and southern Peru, we traveled for hours through rural areas where th= ere was no electricity. Every hour or so a peasant woman, often with chil= dren, and perhaps laden with luggage, would ask the driver to stop and le= t her off. They would vanish in seconds out of the dim lights given off b= y the bus into that absolute and total darkness into a field in the middl= e of nowhere without so much a single visible light anywhere off in the d= istance even in the direction into which they would set off. The question= I never got a satisfying answer to was how these women knew when to ask = the driver to stop, since it was black as black without a single visible = landmark. Dawn's story (The Work of Small Hands) about the darkness and t= he reactions of her characters to it raised far more questions for me tha= n her stories usually do. While it is wonderfully imagined and written wi= th her usual vibrant imagery and interesting psychological examination, a= nd there were many aspects that instantly rang true for me, there were ot= hers than confounded me and stretched my suspension of disbelief. I could= n't imagine, for example, that Olw=EB would have smashed those Feanorian = lights simply out of spite even under the circumstances and as reflection= of the depths of his rage and hurt at one he had once considered a frien= d (seemed rather luddite to me--hurting no one but himself). But I reserv= e further comment on that and other issues that it raised for me until I = have allowed it to simmer and I have read it a couple of more times. Fa= scinating details, Pandemonium. Very much appreciated. I hope you will po= st this in the SWG archive as well where it will be more readily accessible= for re-reading. Oshun **************Wondering what's for Dinner Ton= ight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.a= ol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=3Daolfod00030000000001) -------------------------------1211213944 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Really fascinati= ng insights. I love the magic and also adore the images of the coming of t= he moon and sun. Have dealt with both in my stories to a degree. On the ot= her hand, elves living under starlight for all those generations abso= lutely drove me crazy.
 
Almost equally disturb= ing to me on some basic emotionally reactive level was the apparent lack o= f extreme differentiation between the golden light of Laurelin and the sil= ver light of Telperion (the mingling of lights, wow! what an image, howeve= r--shimmering and absolutely enchanting is the way I like to imagine it). = I have always chosen in my stories to imagine the light of Telperion to be= a great deal less intense than the descriptions in the text might indicat= e. I found it very difficult to imagine that there could be a world withou= t darkness, any more than I could imagine a world completely without night= .
 
When reading Dawn's story, I couldn't help b= ut remember the blackout in New York City in August of 2003. I left Manhat= tan on foot in the late afternoon. It was well over 90F  and there wa= s no other way to get back to Brooklyn other than to walk (about ten miles= on blisteringly hot city sidewalks--thank god I didn't wear heels that da= y). I also have a bad knee. So I walked very slowly. I stopped a lot and e= ven dropped by my daughter's workplace on the Lower East Side to see if sh= e had left yet and sat around talking to people for a while there. It was = a fascinating experience, since it had been fully dark for quite= a while before I reached home. For most of last stretch, the only lights I= saw at all were the occasional lantern, battery operated or kerosene and = the occasional candle in a window or people grilling on hibachis on the si= dewalks. It was dark in a way I had never expected to find in the city. No= one expected it to last, so the atmosphere was overall one of adventure/c= arnival. Totally different from what one would expect in Tirion, for examp= le, after the loss of the light of the two trees.
 
=
Special adaptation to living under starlight??  I also recall a t= rip I made from Bolivia to Peru, on a small, rather broken-down bus some 2= 0 years ago or so. Passing through large areas of northern Bolivia and sou= thern Peru, we traveled for hours through rural areas where ther= e was no electricity. Every hour or so a peasant woman, often with ch= ildren, and perhaps laden with luggage, would ask the driver to stop and l= et her off. They would vanish in seconds out of the dim lights given = off by the bus into that absolute and total darkness into a field in the m= iddle of nowhere without so much a single visible light anywhere off in th= e distance even in the direction into which they would set off. The questi= on I never got a satisfying answer to was how these women knew when to ask= the driver to stop, since it was black as black without a single visible = landmark.
 
Dawn's story (The Work of Small = Hands) about the darkness and the reactions of her characters to it r= aised far more questions for me than her stories usually do. While it is w= onderfully imagined and written with her usual vibrant imagery and interes= ting psychological examination, and there were many aspects that inst= antly rang true for me, there were others than confounded me and stretched= my suspension of disbelief. I couldn't imagine, for example, that Ol= w=EB would have smashed those Feanorian lights simply out of spite even un= der the circumstances and as reflection of the depths of his rage and hurt= at one he had once considered a friend (seemed rather luddite to me--hurt= ing no one but himself). But I reserve further comment on that and other i= ssues that it raised for me until I have allowed it to simmer and I have re= ad it a couple of more times.
 
Fascinating det= ails, Pandemonium. Very much appreciated. I hope you will post this in the= SWG archive as well where it will be more readily accessible for re-readi= ng.
 
Oshun



Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new= twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
-------------------------------1211213944-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1735 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91601 invoked from network); 19 May 2008 17:30:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2008 17:30:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.28) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2008 17:30:57 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so1170726ywe.19 for ; Mon, 19 May 2008 10:30:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.143.37.20 with SMTP id p20mr2936423wfj.236.1211218256409; Mon, 19 May 2008 10:30:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Mon, 19 May 2008 10:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0805191030v23e58260o4e60d772f1eb0895@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 12:30:56 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: e4de868328e1ded3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darknes... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=4ygh9rDRVcYdMW8uI3-7sIKRVdpZa_yz0-tFKvXdVt1MqA X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel I somehow missed the earlier post on this, but I have to add that during the first 100 mile ride I did - I faced my fears and I will never be afraid of the dark again. I was deep in the East Texas Piney Woods, (In Davy Crockett Natl Forest, 100,000 acres) just me and my horse, and we didn't even have the light of the moon or stars because of the trees. We rode from about 3am until 2am the next morning, so did a good bit of trail in the pitch black. It's an almost indescribable sensation and not something I could have imagined before I experienced it. Sulriel. On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:19 AM, wrote: > Really fascinating insights. I love the magic and also adore the images of > the coming of the moon and sun. Have dealt with both in my stories to a > degree. On the other hand, elves living under starlight for all those > generations absolutely drove me crazy. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1736 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77959 invoked from network); 19 May 2008 18:12:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2008 18:12:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.141) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2008 18:12:30 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n14.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 18:12:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 18:12:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 18:12:29 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 18:12:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=8DU0AAd9fiuBy1yXePbAOScII8MucLr4OUvJ2AMg2tUm-z4 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > If that title doesn't scream "Warning! Really Really= -- and I mean > Really -- Extreme Nerdsomeness Ahead!" I don't know what w= ill. ;^) > *Grins* You know, the lack of energy input into 'the system= ' (i.e. Arda) does, of course, worry me. (Although the fact that life *can= * exist without solar radiation never ceases to amaze me!) Since speculat= ing about geo-thermal energy doesn't really work too well - I resort to th= e wizard's wand. I find the idea of the elves awakening / living beneath t= he stars satisfy as mythology, so I'll suspend disbelief. That the trees o= f Nan Elmoth can grow without photosynthesis... *shoves technical objectio= ns aside*! It's a nice image :D With the sudden darkening of Aman, the = impact on circadian rhythm must be brutal! Is the effect of exposure to pr= olonged darkness reversible in mammals? It is in plants (provided they hav= en't died, ofc). From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1737 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63844 invoked from network); 19 May 2008 18:28:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2008 18:28:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2008 18:28:58 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id l35so1785529waf.16 for ; Mon, 19 May 2008 11:28:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.132.5 with SMTP id f5mr7813691wad.125.1211221738463; Mon, 19 May 2008 11:28:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Mon, 19 May 2008 11:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 14:28:58 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_788_22715713.1211221738453" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=CWlqOUEzCnd0cuCzAnRUpnR8J9iwXexsrKJWx12tsl2QhXCSa0ZO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_788_22715713.1211221738453-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1738 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56717 invoked from network); 19 May 2008 18:32:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2008 18:32:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.185) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2008 18:32:19 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id e13so503859rng.22 for ; Mon, 19 May 2008 11:32:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.143.17.13 with SMTP id u13mr2969197wfi.69.1211221938402; Mon, 19 May 2008 11:32:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Mon, 19 May 2008 11:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0805191132u7c700cbcib6cbbf2a4702434e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 13:32:18 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 710ff64f1f93ce57 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=MG5-Yuvv25ZuKTjJ94_WvVzp61mhACFF9lXjzjS83EchMw X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel >>However, the Elves in the Outer Lands present a problem. They live in the starlight if one operates with the cosmology of The Silmarillion, i.e., creation of the sun and moon from the fruits of the Trees. Well, hey presto, let's wave a biologically inclined wizard's wand and state this: the neurological systems of the Elves living in the Outer Lands have adapted to prolonged dark (or have been created to handle the darkness - pick your belief). Perhaps their noradrenergic/serotonergic/dopaminergic systems were well attuned to starlight. Of course, one wonders how they sustained their bodies on a steady diet of mushrooms ;^). If they could handle living in starlight without being depressed, it explains why they were so tra-la-la-lally when they were getting regular doses of daylight. ;) - great post Pan. :) It was delayed downloading somehow so I got the replies out of order, but I'm glad I got to read it. Sulriel On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:10 AM, pandemonium_213 wrote: > If that title doesn't scream "Warning! Really Really -- and I mean Really > -- Extreme Nerdsomeness Ahead!" I don't know what will. ;^) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1739 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84933 invoked from network); 19 May 2008 19:01:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2008 19:01:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2008 19:01:25 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k34so2146997wah.25 for ; Mon, 19 May 2008 12:01:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.121.1 with SMTP id t1mr7861236wac.67.1211223685445; Mon, 19 May 2008 12:01:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Mon, 19 May 2008 12:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:01:25 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1040_31324164.1211223685438" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darknes... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=LgTE4oyZazr1HYm9D3vjDkKZzZBof-XTKrQ9YieCmTgdI9Q80ksN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_1040_31324164.1211223685438-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1740 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24252 invoked from network); 19 May 2008 19:27:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2008 19:27:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.158) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2008 19:27:51 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 19:27:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 19:27:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 19:27:51 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 19:27:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=5JDl5dJDiJ-m-7Qna9w_6n-xfAVXmPVyB-KkDvXuMJKQ8HnwQCIBr56Z X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wro= te: (Although the fact that life *can* exist > without solar radiation n= ever ceases to amaze me!) Yep, the biochemistry of archaeobacteria is amaz= ing! > I resort to the wizard's wand. I find the idea of the elves > aw= akening / living beneath the stars satisfy as mythology, so I'll > suspend= disbelief. Exactly. Tolkien intended this to be a mythology, yet darn i= t, he adds all sorts of tidbits that make it irresistible to examine in a l= ess-than-mythological fashion. >That the trees of Nan Elmoth can grow with= out > photosynthesis... *shoves technical objections aside*! It's a nice = > image :D Maybe they have Super-Chlorophyll (tm) that can pick up photo= ns from the distant stars! :^D > > With the sudden darkening of Aman, th= e impact on circadian rhythm > must be brutal! Is the effect of exposure t= o prolonged darkness > reversible in mammals? It is in plants (provided th= ey haven't died, > ofc). I would guess that it is reversible. Treatment = of SAD with light is effective, which suggests that the purported neural da= mage (cf. the rat study) can be repaired. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1741 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93914 invoked from network); 19 May 2008 20:24:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2008 20:24:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2008 20:24:36 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 20:24:36 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 20:24:36 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 20:24:36 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 20:24:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=rWja-vdjWCRIDDwT07f9-qeHnr6QAjCLvx8wvqHKzYEoLLIkKvemLrKf X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Wow, Pandemonium, thank you! :^D That was an awesome an= alysis! I will admit > that, in my few years of obsessively studying Tolkie= n, the light and dark > issues are those that have bothered me the most of = the various canon > conundrums I've wrangled. I simply cannot find clean, s= imple answers here. Heh. There are no clean and simple answers in the Tol= kien legendarium which makes it such a wildly fertile ground for fan fic! = There is an attempt > to make sense of how all of this worked--evidenced= by *Myths Transformed*--but > there are glaring inconsistencies too. True= enough, but speaking personally, the explicit statement that the earth is = round, the nature of the Sun and Moon, and that the Eldar of Aman understoo= d the solar system as it exists in its contemporary sense were certainly ap= pealing. Neither were fleshed out to rid themselves of inconsistencies, an= d would have entailed some significant retrofitting. Nonetheless, his opin= ion about the flat earth cosmogony and related matters was pretty strong. = In this, *The Silmarillion* very much > has always seemed to me to be a wo= rk that the author never finished, > compiled from various drafts and using= myriad different ideas of how the > reality of Arda worked. I would have l= oved to have seen how JRRT would have > reconciled all of this, in the end.= My guess is that he would not have reconciled it. It seemed like he was = *constantly* fiddling with his mythopoeia. But based on what he was doing = with The Notion Club Papers, it did seem like he was trying to create a con= nection between our world and his imaginary history. IIrc, he even came up= with Anglo-Saxon names for F=EBanor and the seven guys! With that in mind= , what he sketched out in his later essay on his cosmogony seems consistent= with this "notion," uh, "inkling", er, "idea!" Inconsistencies abound in = JRRT's writings, but given the immensity of what he was doing (creating a f= lippin' world!), that's not too surprising! When such issues as the adapta= bility of Elvish eyes to sudden changes of light and the conundrums of how = sea life survived without the Sun, JRRT (again based on his later writings)= would likely huff that those are "Mannish myths" and that F=EBanor could s= et one straight as to the actual science behind it all. :^D So, for me, the= inconsistencies in The Silmarillion or the BoLT are not problematic given = the "Mannish Myth" comment on JRRT's part. That also preserves the beautie= s of the myth, e.g., the wonderful tale of the sea creatures from the BoLT.= But doggone it if the old Oxford don doesn't *invite* one to study the bi= ology of Middle-earth, inconsistencies and mysteries all. He added enough t= antalizingly familiar things (trees, constellations, planets) that it is ir= resistible. Although such examination is certainly fun, it is impossible t= o apply even the most *robust* scientific examination to it and probably fr= uitless to do so. But you *did* ask for my wild-ass speculation. :^) = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1742 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77297 invoked from network); 19 May 2008 21:49:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2008 21:49:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.207) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2008 21:49:07 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 21:49:07 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2008 21:49:07 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 21:49:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "spacellama" Subject: OT (announcement): Breaking Type Challenge at OSA X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=0NGC0S875Nmud4xEmpgpHGj4bq_gPfIKakh-qKl6zfRRKSRDGBgD27tQC_Pr X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess "The writer who loses his self-doubt, who gives way as he grows old to a su= dden euphoria, to prolixity, should stop writing immediately: the time has = come for him to lay aside his pen." -- S. G. Collette Do you like to see = the path of your story-to-be laid out ahead of you like the road going ever= on and on, or is your way something else? The wanderings of an idle mind's= free moment jotted on napkins and purchase receipts perhaps? The muttering= s of a Muse in your ear over a cup of coffee? Are you comfortable in your= method? Why? What might you learn if things change? The Challenge: Break= ing Type Open Scrolls Archive (OSA) is running a Breaking Type challenge = to encourage writers in fandom to stretch, both structurally and topically.= We're hoping that outliners will write free-form, first-age Silm writers w= ill write about hobbits, and all other sorts of wildness will ensue. There = will even be a beta-swap toward the end of the challenge. Interested in pl= aying? Here's where all the hubbub is going down: http://www.openscrolls.ne= t/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3D2931&start=3D0 If you have questions, feel free = to e-mail viv, OSA challenge admin, at spacellamaprincess at yahoo dot com.= "If the doctor told me I had six minutes to live, I'd type a little fast= er." -- Isaac Azimov From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1743 Return-Path: X-Sender: WolfwindHA@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56088 invoked from network); 23 May 2008 20:28:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2008 20:28:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n32c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.10) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2008 20:28:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2008 20:28:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2008 20:28:24 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 20:28:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "wolfwindha" Subject: Re: Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=Llbnq_xrbG_FOiAZFYI_y7kvLYoRMGsFiCZTpYTgjw1LXn6Vvekv32M X-Yahoo-Profile: wolfwindha Hey, everyone! My name's Wolfwind, and I was a member of this group a year= and a half ago, before I left on a mission for my church. I just got bac= k and am slowly getting my life back in order. But I had to pop in and sa= y how much I loved this thread. One thing I've always found interesting is= that there are no angiosperms (flowering plants) until the Trees in Aman = and the Sun and the Moon in Middle-earth. So not only do we have the Elda= r running around subsisting on Sleeping vegetation, it's all conifers and f= erns - no grains, no fruits, just lots of salad. And seafood, as has been= mentioned. But since Feanor isn't here to debunk the Mannish myths for us= , here's the illogic I've come up with that satisfies my love of myth and = of science: Our problem is that we can't envision a form of large-scale en= ergy production other than photosythesis - a light-based process. But tha= t doesn't mean that there couldn't be one. To make the analogy as simple = (and magical) as possible, there could be an energy source other than ligh= t, with "chlorophyll" adapted to "photosynthesize" this energy. Why not m= ake the Valar themselves the source of this energy? They are Powers, after= all. Our bodies radiate heat. Theirs could radiate an energy source tha= t Yavanna's plants could use. Probably as long as they were in the Circle= s of the world, even on Aman, this energy would be present. This energy m= ust not be as efficient as light, because light-plants take over as soon as= there is any light. And flowering plants can't exist without light. But= there could be a decent amount of gymnosperms subsisting on what the hobb= its would call magic energy, enough to support a small population of Eldar= . They might not have been placed under the Sleep - Yavanna only placed i= t on certain things, maybe vegetation that had evolved to rely on light un= der the Lamps. Because these plants provided less food-energy for hungry E= ldar than photosynthesizing plants, the only places that could support a l= arge population would be the seashore and Doriath. The shore, because Ulm= o never left the waters and thus sea plants would have unlimited energy to= work with and would thrive; Doriath because Melian, as a Maia, radiated P= ower as well. After all, she got flowers to bloom there, so she must have = been equivalent to Light. All the other Elven groups are called wanderers= and scattered, because the land couldn't support a city or even village p= opulation. So that's my two cents' worth. Blatantly unscientific, but it = lets me keep believing in the myths. And it ties together what I know of = Arda, not having read HoMe. Feel free to poke at holes! -Wolfwind From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1744 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7753 invoked from network); 23 May 2008 20:33:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2008 20:33:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.191) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2008 20:33:56 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k57so653684rnd.13 for ; Fri, 23 May 2008 13:33:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.89.1 with SMTP id r1mr1199589wal.12.1211574835001; Fri, 23 May 2008 13:33:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 23 May 2008 13:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 16:33:54 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_817_14763153.1211574834982" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=iisix_FL5XCiJpMpzNjh9ghgOxrDVlRSqeKc9lunWspkYwUimVbJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_817_14763153.1211574834982-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1745 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55006 invoked from network); 23 May 2008 21:10:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2008 21:10:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.152) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2008 21:10:44 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so511707ywk.48 for ; Fri, 23 May 2008 14:10:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.133.15 with SMTP id g15mr792321wfd.271.1211577043427; Fri, 23 May 2008 14:10:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Fri, 23 May 2008 14:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0805231410k2211dcb8k50a8e77705a8220b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 16:10:43 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7707_30343781.1211577043414" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: a0e234a9ef58edc7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=PbF4owh2ZD2-VMvWESN0w2CC1BGrsiLwVgHSd7cjeveUeg X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_7707_30343781.1211577043414-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1746 Return-Path: X-Sender: WolfwindHA@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11475 invoked from network); 29 May 2008 04:53:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2008 04:53:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n24c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.214) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2008 04:53:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2008 04:53:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2008 04:53:10 -0000 Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 04:53:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "wolfwindha" Subject: Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=d2RKhA3r10lTnxunV234Zy78AZqVIwou3JZXCjYQfFdUjOZQIy7CH6A X-Yahoo-Profile: wolfwindha I have a couple of points that I've read in fanfiction that I've always acc= epted as true, but I've never researched. Not having a copy of HoMe handy= , I was wondering if anyone on this list knew off the top of his or her he= ad if these things are true. They're throwing some knots in my WiP. 1. E= lves are considered 'adult' and marry between the ages of 50 and 100. 2. = Elves usually have one child and raise him or her to adulthood before havin= g another (this is changing all my ideas of sibling rivalry, if it's true)= . 3. Elves tend to count in multiples of 3 and 12, not 5 and 10 (which ch= anges 1 a bit). If anyone has any thoughts on these points, I'd be very gr= ateful. So would Earwen, because I'd have one less excuse to put off writ= ing her story! Thanks, Wolfwind From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1747 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34838 invoked from network); 29 May 2008 05:28:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2008 05:28:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.244) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2008 05:28:19 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id n78so1741615hsc.8 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 22:28:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.104.20 with SMTP id b20mr4717267agc.32.1212038898338; Wed, 28 May 2008 22:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f51sm453299pyh.36.2008.05.28.22.28.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 28 May 2008 22:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <483E3EA5.30209@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 01:27:01 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=cbTwCZnP2HL6CHO0b6yfVKJZzp5ffFkxUGdlyhwOewmdQQoFmSwnnQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Wolfwind, I am not an expert on all things Elven, so I hope some people will correct me on this if I am wrong. > 1. Elves are considered 'adult' and marry between the ages of 50 and 100. > Laws and Customs among the Eldar says: "Not until the fiftieth year did the Eldar attain the stature and shape in which their lives would afterwards endure, and for some a hundred years would pass before they were full-grown." and "The Eldar wedded for the most part in their youth and soon after their fiftieth year." So I'm not sure if there's a year of majority at fifty, but it seems that most are mature physically and psychologically by that point (though some need longer); and that they tended to marry shortly after reaching their majority. > 2. Elves usually have one child and raise him or her to adulthood before > having another (this > is changing all my ideas of sibling rivalry, if it's true). > Given that Elves only take 50-100 years to mature (which is really not long for immortals), I think it's reasonable that they would in general have children several decades apart, which would be almost a generation apart. That makes sense when you look at the birthdates we have. (I'm thinking about Elladan/Elrohir [b. TA 130] and Arwen [T.A. 241], just because we have clearcut birthdates for them.) But I also think that we have instances of twins so elves *could* raise two children at the same time. Btw, LACE has some interesting comments - elves usually conceive in time of peace, and it takes a great act of will t procreate - but nothing that explicitly says they have to write. If there is a quote this makes that view canonical, I can't think of where it was. So.... the view that Elves have one kid at a time makes sense as a general rule, but them you have twins so it can't *always* have been like that. > 3. Elves tend to count in multiples of 3 and 12, not 5 and 10 (which > changes 1 a bit). > That's canon, from the LOTR appendices - sort of. :-) Can't speak for Valinor, but as for Ennor: "It seems clear that the Eldar in Middle-earth, who had, as Samwise remarked, more time at their disposal, reckoned in long periods, and the Quenya word y�n, often translated 'year' (1, 491), really means 144 of our years. The Eldar preferred to reckon in sixes and twelves as far as possible." The 144 makes sense - that's 12*12, which suggests a base twelve system, rather than our century (10*10) which suggests a base ten system. HTH! Like I said I mainly research men and dwarves and so everything I've said, take with a grain of salt. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1748 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74970 invoked from network); 29 May 2008 14:01:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2008 14:01:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56811.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.85) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2008 14:01:27 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 63371 invoked by uid 60001); 29 May 2008 14:01:26 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ESn0dk0VM1nC69Ys6Rn1wLPYJCMl8yc2KapoKGy6kSxHZmURWTU.z1SADw4_NgBIgA-- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56811.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 29 May 2008 07:01:25 PDT Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 07:01:25 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <483E3EA5.30209@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <889547.59853.qm@web56811.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=0ufNK9sdlln38dWcjemS-JWKW_YTY-4aAeYH714dk56qglSFgJEcEBG6NYs- X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess Just an addendum to what Marta said... There's a children's story/legend in War of the Jewels (pp. 420 and following) called "The Legend of the Awakening of the Quendi (Cuivenyarna)" that attempts to explain why elves reckon in 12s. It's a nifty little story, too. :) viv --- "melayton@gmail.com" wrote: > > 3. Elves tend to count in multiples of 3 and 12, > not 5 and 10 (which > > changes 1 a bit). > > > > That's canon, from the LOTR appendices - sort of. > :-) Can't speak for > Valinor, but as for Ennor: > > "It seems clear that the Eldar in Middle-earth, who > had, as Samwise > remarked, more time at their disposal, reckoned in > long periods, and the > Quenya word y�n, often translated 'year' (1, 491), > really means 144 of > our years. The Eldar preferred to reckon in sixes > and twelves as far as > possible." > > The 144 makes sense - that's 12*12, which suggests a > base twelve system, > rather than our century (10*10) which suggests a > base ten system. > > Marta > http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1749 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92372 invoked from network); 29 May 2008 15:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2008 15:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.238) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2008 15:39:06 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so4045654wxd.10 for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 08:39:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.14.1 with SMTP id r1mr4486369wai.206.1212075521464; Thu, 29 May 2008 08:38:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 29 May 2008 08:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:38:41 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <483E3EA5.30209@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_609_22139333.1212075521447" References: <483E3EA5.30209@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=eZirM5xQJk2okMFRWUBf1pGDAN03HC5XbG5BsuKWdXL9D0_BjNLh X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_609_22139333.1212075521447-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1750 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10111 invoked from network); 29 May 2008 18:02:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2008 18:02:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.28) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2008 18:02:35 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so425520yxg.29 for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 11:02:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.150.78.41 with SMTP id a41mr7918778ybb.178.1212084154636; Thu, 29 May 2008 11:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p57sm1462135pyb.27.2008.05.29.11.02.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 29 May 2008 11:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <483EEF6C.9000006@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 14:01:16 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <483E3EA5.30209@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=BZBc8MzlWRGt4UicrzS1vmn9cMNxIeU88izFnFEyqg6Qd-HQ6D66Pg X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, You know, I really enjoyed reading everything you read, because it got me thinking about the nature of canon. And I think you make an interesting point: while it may be canonical that Elves (in general) marry around 50-100 years, it is not *un*canonical that any particular Elf married much later. If we accept LACE as canon (and I agree with you, it's far from the most reliable source!), then we know that a man, probably a Fourth Age man (b/c Aragorn and Arwen are mentioned...), thought that Elves acted this way. But look at academics argue over a fact (not interpretation! cold hard fact!) about an event only around a century ago. The example that jumps to mind is the controversy over whether the Native Americans or US soldiers fired first at Wounded Knee. That was in 1890, so 118 years ago - if we can't have surety in the facts of that event, I agree that it's even harder to believe that a man writing thousands of years later would know much for certain about First Age Elves. Even that aside, though, LACE is full of "seldoms" and other qualifying words. As Juno once said, it seems like most of the Elves in Tolkien suffered from the "rare ill chances or strange fates" that kept elves from getting married early. So I don't think one or more exception to a general rule of doubtable certainty will really hurt. I mainly provided Wolfwind with the quotes I knew about so she would know there was *some* canon out there - interpreting that is her job, and the fun part. :-) Marta Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > Hi, Wolfwind, > > I will add my agreement with Marta's points and just add a couple things. > [major snippage] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1751 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92749 invoked from network); 29 May 2008 19:57:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2008 19:57:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.178) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2008 19:57:33 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so143798elf.20 for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.16.1 with SMTP id t1mr5004146wai.19.1212091052481; Thu, 29 May 2008 12:57:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 29 May 2008 12:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:57:32 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <483EEF6C.9000006@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2076_1610873.1212091052484" References: <483E3EA5.30209@gmail.com> <483EEF6C.9000006@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=D3W1uyQ-16EYIO-tWl_VGZZ4J8ngxsvF3Gq0uUqnOmyltqKN0ISo X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_2076_1610873.1212091052484-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1752 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36495 invoked from network); 29 May 2008 21:08:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2008 21:08:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.245) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2008 21:08:15 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id x43so2007490hsb.0 for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 14:08:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.142.4 with SMTP id p4mr2353058and.23.1212095294903; Thu, 29 May 2008 14:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u6sm1717672pyb.0.2008.05.29.14.08.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 29 May 2008 14:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <483F1AEE.7020405@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 17:06:54 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <483E3EA5.30209@gmail.com> <483EEF6C.9000006@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] L&C; was: Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=Oa83rV79zEX7VITQtlKA42s7k7SeMuLe6x60s_zUUn0HyVizvrt_8g X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, > I hope I didn't give the impression of arguing with your citing that > quote. I would have given the same quote, but you beat me to it. :) Not at all! The truth is, I find myself uncomfortable with L&C, so I was a bit embarrassed I might be coming off as a L&C apologist. L&C has a much different different impact on my writing than it probably does for a lot of people here. When I write Boromir/Theodred slash, I often use it as the inspiration for Gondorian sexual mores. So whether it accurately depicts First Age Elves or not is somewhat irrelevant to me; the relevant part of my study is how having such a document would affect a later society's morality. To use an analogy from our real world, it's sort of like the difference between how conservative Christians use Old Testament verses to condemn homosexuality; and how the ancient Israelites actually viewed homosexuality. I'm not trying to open an OT debate on that issue, but merely saying that someone trying to provide a basis for homophobia in today's culture might use those texts very differently from a historian trying to figure out what those verses say about what the ancient Israelites actually believed. Similarly, I use LACE to construct what Gondorians might believe about sex; you seem to use it to examine what the First Age elves actually believed and did. Have you ever thought about writing your views on L&C into an essay? I'd be very interested to read it, and I think many people might find it a useful account. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1753 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6326 invoked from network); 29 May 2008 22:20:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2008 22:20:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2008 22:20:28 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k22so3398621waf.20 for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 15:20:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.170.2 with SMTP id s2mr5225439wae.170.1212099627540; Thu, 29 May 2008 15:20:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 29 May 2008 15:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 18:20:27 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <483F1AEE.7020405@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2755_25105784.1212099627561" References: <483E3EA5.30209@gmail.com> <483EEF6C.9000006@gmail.com> <483F1AEE.7020405@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] L&C; was: Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=tesC_lJvEMwRgzZjrx7C0jxavh3o-rd0CFwOabufNolmhu2gy4pl X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_2755_25105784.1212099627561-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1754 Return-Path: X-Sender: WolfwindHA@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95298 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 03:02:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 03:02:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 03:02:12 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2008 03:02:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2008 03:02:12 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 03:02:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <483E3EA5.30209@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "wolfwindha" Subject: Re: Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=HjnSCMy0qe0A3QO4e-Q3OOGLcyZL4jZxh2s06RvGJZ5hHK5HCzj1hxY X-Yahoo-Profile: wolfwindha Thanks so much Marta! Those are exactly the sort of quotes I was looking f= or. I was pretty sure they existed somewhere, but now I know. Thanks! W= olfwind --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "melayton@..." wrote: > > Hi Wolfwind, > > I am not an expert on all things = Elven, so I hope some people will > correct me on this if I am wrong. > >= > 1. Elves are considered 'adult' and marry between the ages of 50 and 100= . > > > > Laws and Customs among the Eldar says: > > "Not until the fift= ieth year did the Eldar attain the stature and shape > in which their live= s would afterwards endure, and for some a hundred > years would pass befor= e they were full-grown." > > and > > "The Eldar wedded for the most part = in their youth and soon after their > fiftieth year." > > So I'm not sure= if there's a year of majority at fifty, but it seems > that most are matu= re physically and psychologically by that point > (though some need longer= ); and that they tended to marry shortly after > reaching their majority. = >snip> From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1755 Return-Path: X-Sender: WolfwindHA@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43058 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 03:13:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 03:13:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 03:13:11 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2008 03:13:11 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2008 03:13:11 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2008 03:13:11 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 03:13:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "wolfwindha" Subject: Re: Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=tGOn5NJAUqt1K1Fzm_5lv5dsJggERb_GiS2tnuaNAxU4C5Jv9bG3HhM X-Yahoo-Profile: wolfwindha Wow, Dawn, this is way more than I looked for! I'm so glad to know that th= ere are "real" chronologies; I'd been trying to make up my own and it wasn= 't very effective. (Although, oddly, I guessed that Fingolfin was about 4= 0 years older than Finarfin and that Finrod and Turgon were the same age -= weird.) Knowing that Finarfin was 50 when he married throws a loop in my = plans. I'd been assuming that 50 was the Elven equivalent of 18 where I c= ome from - legally an adult, able to vote and all that, but not usually th= e age for marriage or settling down. My tentative story was set when Earw= en was about 50 and well before her wedding, and since she isn't really in= love with Finarfin in the story, that might present some problems. She's = not that much older than he is! I'll have to move the story to earlier, s= omehow... But those dates are fascinating and now I have a whole new set o= f ideas to play with. I think all I'm taking from LaCE is the idea that E= lves are 'full-grown' between the ages of 50 and 100 (and I'm not even wor= rying about Tree Years/Sun Years). I should probably sit down and read it= someday! Some other day, though. Back to the drawing board. Thanks agai= n! Wolfwind --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagun= d" wrote: > > Hi, Wolfwind, > > I will add my agreemen= t with Marta's points and just add a couple things. > > On maturity and ma= rriage, yes, *Laws and Customs among the Eldar* (L&C) says > that Elves mat= ure between 50 and 100 years and tend to marry around age 50 > as well, as = Marta's quote shows. However, I urge caution in thinking that > this was th= e way that it had to be or even the way that it usually was > during the El= ves' early history. If we look at First Age Elves, very few > married young= or even married at all. We have in *The Silmarillion* that > Feanor marrie= d Nerdanel "in his early youth," and in the *Annals of > Aman*that Finarfin= married when he was 50 in Years of the Trees, which > is > actually roughl= y equivalent to 500 Sun Years! But then you see Elves like > Finwe, Fingon = (or Orodreth, if you prefer the HoMe version of Gil-galad's > parentage), G= aladriel, Aredhel, Idril, and Luthien who married much later > than 50 year= s, and Elves like Finrod and most of the sons of Feanor who > never married= at all. And all of those listed (except Finwe, Idril, and > Luthien) grew = up in the peace of Aman, so there is not the excuse of war and > turmoil as= to why they married late or not at all. >snip> From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1756 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47059 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 14:31:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 14:31:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.188) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 14:31:27 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id v72so2214147rnb.6 for ; Fri, 30 May 2008 07:31:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.52.1 with SMTP id z1mr6156113waz.192.1212157885803; Fri, 30 May 2008 07:31:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 30 May 2008 07:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 10:31:25 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7086_28398063.1212157885795" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uclK7zLELFiLQ-5_vF_t1_vo5Y7IYNUDfyrvG3NMGw3kqAZj_Rgw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_7086_28398063.1212157885795-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1757 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83657 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 14:44:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 14:44:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 14:44:17 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 73657 invoked by uid 60001); 30 May 2008 14:44:17 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 1Hx_RiwVM1nX6_0rEYw3HwRNckuQJ6HdklsxxCZDQBEUy_rCXe9CSFTM5j.d3fX0mQ-- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 30 May 2008 07:44:17 PDT Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:44:17 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2067117654-1212158657=:70188" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <236847.70188.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=k93XczdboBPSDsn251hoHDFzzWjMitj75F2gZL2pq1zfkknLKg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-2067117654-1212158657=:70188 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wolfwinha - If it means you have to re-write your story (or a large part of it) to change something based on something that was in HoME and/or other sources than the Silmarillion, I think you can consider not changing it. There are some that know every detail inside and out from these different sources but I think the majority of us (okay - me lol) write based on the Silmarillion alone as long as there isn't something in HoME that goes strictly against it and you know it beforehand. For example, when I found out that Curufin's wife was not named in the Silmarillion - I researched HoME and found he didn't have a wife's name listed anywhere. But I would not have gone outside HoME to find the information just because I don't have the letters, etc. Plus alot of HoME contridicts what is 'canon' from the Silmarillion or Lord of the Rings. If the reader of your story has only read the two core books, they will wonder why you altered something from the published works that they had read. Basically you have to decide how canon you want to be. You can always put in an author's note citing your source if you know there is a differing source somewhere. Just my two cents. Dawn Felagund wrote: On 5/29/08, wolfwindha wrote: > Knowing that Finarfin was 50 when he married throws a loop in my plans. Well, if it's any consolation to you, I think you can get away with not following The Annals of Aman to the letter. :) AAm was the latest in a string of timelines that Tolkien worked on over the course of his life; there are two additional timeline sets for Valinor that preceded it. So I'd say it's far from a final document; it is full of cross-outs and corrections that Christopher Tolkien coalesced into the final form of The Annals of Aman. In fact, its companion timeline for Beleriand (The Grey Annals) was never finished, so I'm sure that JRRT would have added and tinkered further, if given the chance. I know that I personally would not throw a fit to see a story where Finarfin's marriage age was something other than fifty. As for the HoMe, I highly recommend it! I have really been studying and working with it over the last year, and it's full of so much interesting information. Never mind how rewarding I personally find it to see how the story evolved, to see some of the draft ideas that JRRT scrapped (especially volumes 1 and 2 ... wow!) and the knowledge that, no, epic stories don't have to be perfect the first time around. :) As I stare down major revisions on my own, this is a comforting thought. Take care, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-2067117654-1212158657=:70188 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Wolfwinha -
 
If it means you have to re-write your story (or a large part of it) to change something based on something that was in HoME and/or other sources than the Silmarillion, I think you can consider not changing it. There are some that know every detail inside and out from these different sources but I think the majority of us (okay - me lol) write based on the Silmarillion alone as long as there isn't something in HoME that goes strictly against it and you know it beforehand. For example, when I found out that Curufin's wife was not named in the Silmarillion - I researched HoME and found he didn't have a wife's name listed anywhere. But I would not have gone outside HoME to find the information just because I don't have the letters, etc.  Plus alot of HoME contridicts what is 'canon' from the Silmarillion or Lord of the Rings. If the reader of your story has only read the two core books, they will wonder why you altered something from the published works that they had read. Basically you have to decide how canon you want to be. You can always put in an author's note citing your source if you know there is a differing source somewhere.
 
Just my two cents.

Dawn Felagund wrote:
On 5/29/08, wolfwindha <WolfwindHA@gmail.com> wrote:
> Knowing that Finarfin was 50 when he married throws a loop in my plans.
 
Well, if it's any consolation to you, I think you can get away with not following The Annals of Aman to the letter. :) AAm was the latest in a string of timelines that Tolkien worked on over the course of his life; there are two additional timeline sets for Valinor that preceded it. So I'd say it's far from a final document; it is full of cross-outs and corrections that Christopher Tolkien coalesced into the final form of The Annals of Aman. In fact, its companion timeline for Beleriand (The Grey Annals) was never finished, so I'm sure that JRRT would have added and tinkered further, if given the chance.
 
I know that I personally would not throw a fit to see a story where Finarfin's marriage age was something other than fifty.
 
As for the HoMe, I highly recommend it! I have really been studying and working with it over the last year, and it's full of so much interesting information. Never mind how rewarding I personally find it to see how the story evolved, to see some of the draft ideas that JRRT scrapped (especially volumes 1 and 2 ... wow!) and the knowledge that, no, epic stories don't have to be perfect the first time around. :) As I stare down major revisions on my own, this is a comforting thought.
 
Take care,
 
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-2067117654-1212158657=:70188-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1758 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28494 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 16:21:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 16:21:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56814.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.88) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 16:21:32 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 23750 invoked by uid 60001); 30 May 2008 16:21:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: y3qNpY0VM1mVF4zrcfUgF4uKoYhhwZm08VtK7SgFs50hVgbWqpbqy9BrdyHwpGvXB2MZD0dem6Vj29V2.AkKlMAYOGGVy3FwkduvBuQZLdHFcKoC09s24EhPWg-- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56814.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 30 May 2008 09:21:31 PDT Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 09:21:31 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <470877.22186.qm@web56814.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Canon or Fanon? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=AvR_lTRzujCAMopiHCVISdMj3BnRDbJGfs-ywtm0HNxVZ7LihdT_yqJvG9QF X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess I think writers are harder on themselves than readers are. When I'm reading fic, I don't hold a writer to anything mentioned in HoME. Also, I've never stopped in the middle of a story to grouse to myself about character ages, dates, baby-daddies, and the like (though I have, on occassion, abandoned stories because if overuse of the verb "to be," semicolon abuse, and fusty language). If the story's good and written well, I just read on through and enjoy. So, despite the fun of picking nits like dates here on a discussion list, I hope you won't let the small stuff bog you down or hinder your muse. viv http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1759 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37401 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 20:36:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 20:36:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.185) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 20:36:24 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id m36so63286rnd.20 for ; Fri, 30 May 2008 13:36:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.33.1 with SMTP id l1mr6810761waj.228.1212179783341; Fri, 30 May 2008 13:36:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 30 May 2008 13:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 16:36:23 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9292_17402946.1212179783344" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=DkuU5Huv9XuwwfxVD5yGVK6eNO1TlYR8HupLV0v25l1tLWWFCRjf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_9292_17402946.1212179783344-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1760 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43679 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 21:45:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 21:45:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.75) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 21:45:34 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 83803 invoked by uid 60001); 30 May 2008 21:45:34 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: wghOpxIVM1l2C.Ihy73ml9Ko6CQccWMvmYgJ3sjkV4AI2iIbKaH7DwnyOhCm15FOtx41jYAyx505pYN37IlsIx2LJ27GXBtMPtvGzeTnSK9b0P2Uo9DKaVurrA-- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 30 May 2008 14:45:34 PDT Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:45:34 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <383734.81845.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=DLbzuHSWaDJDJhoin8KUBnSOROYI385lkDUViLJOXcjIRgkPEfepBC3tyvwo X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess Oh, good point that there are different kinds of readers. Here I go being all "everybody is just like me." *thwaps self* I guess I'm a story-first kind of reader, then, like Juno. As a writer, I play fast and loose a lot in the hopes that someday I'll become popular enough for Canon Sticklers to care what I write. ;) (Only partially joking there; it *would* be flattering, I think, for purist fans to nitpick through my stuff; it'd sure save me and the occassional beta a bunch of legwork.) > PS--Three Keebler E.L. Fudge "Elves Exist" cookies > to Viv for using the term > *baby-daddy* in a serious-minded post! :^P They seriously make these cookies?! Wheee! viv http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1761 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71252 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 21:56:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 21:56:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 21:56:43 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cec.3485af8a (37043) for ; Fri, 30 May 2008 17:56:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from mblk-d49 (mblk-d49.mblk.aol.com [205.188.212.233]) by cia-db03.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB031-90b34840781822e; Fri, 30 May 2008 17:56:40 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 17:56:41 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: <383734.81845.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA90B72D405430_15B4_42FE_mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36743-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.233) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 30 May 2008 17:56:41 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA90B72D2FA3A5-15B4-217A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=5uAJSuBLeVkYfMcy9bW1lxstHr3o1daMiFZa9JY7Z8XKZJRHsClK X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA90B72D405430_15B4_42FE_mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'll read just about anything that is well-written and has an appealing story line. I do have some canon-characterization turn-offs though, principally: 1) strong in canon, but whiney baby in fic; 2) complex in canon, but black or white hero or villain in fic. As a writer, I am obsessive about knowing the canon. (I prepared an entire chart using every available source to plot the birth and death dates of all of Finwe's children and grandchildren to write a ficlet about Fingon and Turgon as kids.) On the other hand, I am not adverse to make dramatic changes in canon, especially when the original details?are hyperbolic (how long Maedhros was in captivity to Morgoth, how long he hung from the cliffs of Thangorodrim, and how long Fingon dithered around after he found out where he was before deciding to try to rescue him). I cannot do the math calculations about sun-years vs. tree-years either. The very concept sets my teeth on edge. This is fiction, not a middle school math exam. -----Original Message----- From: Viv To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 30 May 2008 5:45 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") Oh, good point that there are different kinds of readers. Here I go being all "everybody is just like me." *thwaps self* I guess I'm a story-first kind of reader, then, like Juno. As a writer, I play fast and loose a lot in the hopes that someday I'll become popular enough for Canon Sticklers to care what I write. ;) (Only partially joking there; it *would* be flattering, I think, for purist fans to nitpick through my stuff; it'd sure save me and the occassional beta a bunch of legwork.) > PS--Three Keebler E.L. Fudge "Elves Exist" cookies > to Viv for using the term > *baby-daddy* in a serious-minded post! :^P They seriously make these cookies?! Wheee! viv http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama ----------MB_8CA90B72D405430_15B4_42FE_mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I'll read just about anything that is well-written and has an appealing story line. I do have some canon-characterization turn-offs though, principally: 1) strong in canon, but whiney baby in fic; 2) complex in canon, but black or white hero or villain in fic.

As a writer, I am obsessive about knowing the canon. (I prepared an entire chart using every available source to plot the birth and death dates of all of Finwe's children and grandchildren to write a ficlet about Fingon and Turgon as kids.) On the other hand, I am not adverse to make dramatic changes in canon, especially when the original details are hyperbolic (how long Maedhros was in captivity to Morgoth, how long he hung from the cliffs of Thangorodrim, and how long Fingon dithered around after he found out where he was before deciding to try to rescue him). I cannot do the math calculations about sun-years vs. tree-years either. The very concept sets my teeth on edge. This is fiction, not a middle school math exam.


-----Original Message-----
From: Viv
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 30 May 2008 5:45 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?")

Oh, good point that there are different kinds of
readers. Here I go being all "everybody is just like
me." *thwaps self* I guess I'm a story-first kind of
reader, then, like Juno.

As a writer, I play fast and loose a lot in the hopes
that someday I'll become popular enough for Canon
Sticklers to care what I write. ;) (Only partially
joking there; it *would* be flattering, I think, for
purist fans to nitpick through my stuff; it'd sure
save me and the occassional beta a bunch of legwork.)

> PS--Three Keebler E.L. Fudge "Elves Exist" cookies
> to Viv for using the term
> *baby-daddy* in a serious-minded post! :^P

They seriously make these cookies?! Wheee!

viv

http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama
----------MB_8CA90B72D405430_15B4_42FE_mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1762 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43870 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 22:12:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 22:12:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 22:12:23 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 861E6748079 for ; Sat, 31 May 2008 00:12:22 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 31 May 2008 00:12:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 00:12:23 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1249508865.20080531001223@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: <8CA90B72D2FA3A5-15B4-217A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> References: <383734.81845.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <8CA90B72D2FA3A5-15B4-217A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Time counting X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=Ifnn1-AhzdGPIsngdYp9a3Qc7S300Weihfzyw-kDMACaoMrBaTY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, Just stepping by for a moment ;) hac> I cannot do the math calculations about sun-years vs. hac> tree-years either. The very concept sets my teeth on edge. This hac> is fiction, not a middle school math exam. And we need no counting - that's what I finally believe, after all the discussions, considering various legendary stages etc. For there were no sun years before the Sun appeared, so what do we want to count? Time started running faster with the Sun, before that it was running/flying/floating/passing/whatever the same in Aman and the rest of Arda. So Nelyo hung only such amount of years of stars (tress?) as annals mention. Later we might need the counting since the moment the Sun appeared if we want to compare for example the amount of time Nerdanel spent in Aman waiting for her sons while they were roaming Beleriand. How many days passed for the mum and for the boys till Nirnaeth? Etc. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1763 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17741 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 22:35:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 22:35:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 22:35:15 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 28732 invoked by uid 60001); 30 May 2008 22:35:15 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: a_iA2KwVM1k6gVdyk5nv.5C9qndK3h.Ayy.9tuUJAu.ro0aDqhbyeYvjju8gO4nd2x.SxzKnZSUwdbKEit_BdkX6XN73_2_5baLr1zs6Hi7_zGkUNzHOTH608Rs- X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 30 May 2008 15:35:14 PDT Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 15:35:14 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1184885291-1212186914=:24677" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <955743.24677.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Fwd: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=TemKlfZe1a8dj6eglYBMPcBAsogbDNgFIaAmoAPfYdH1PF3suw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1184885291-1212186914=:24677 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alassante7 wrote: Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 15:34:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups. I think this is why a lot of people are scared to venture into the Silmarillion world of fiction. So much of what was in the Silm was incomplete with chunks in the HoME, parts in the letters, and bits in some annals. Who really knows what JRRT would have written if he had ever finished it himself? One of my friends and I fight ALL the time about the color of Celegorm's hair. Neither of us will cave on it. Its become a long standing joke between us too. Basically IMO it boils down to this - you can write a great fiction within canon completely and you can write an equally great fiction bending canon. And the opposite is true - you can be spot on in canon or bend it every which way to Sunday and if the writing sucks - the writing sucks. Period. The biggest thing is don't let the research obsess you to the point where you don't enjoy writing it or write a brilliant story but keep in mind if you choose not to follow canon, there might be someone who will point that out to you. No matter who you are and how you write - someone will always not enjoy your writing. Its impossible to please everyone. I usually try to write as much to canon as possible with the warning that it is strictly from the Silmarillion - even though I do some research in HoME, I don't exhaust myself researching. Hell I was so stoked I actually finished the Silm and understood it - I just enjoy writing and knowing the difference between all the Cele's and all the Fin's. Dawn Felagund wrote: Alassante and Viv, your last posts have been really interesting to me because it addresses something that I've noticed in fandom, particularly Tolkien, where our canon is so crabbed and convoluted. Different writers (and readers) approach the canon in their stories in different ways. For some, they string the stories between very meticulously researched canon facts, so the story always serves the canon, and a nifty plot point or well-sketched character is abandoned if it's uncanonical. Others fit the canon into the story, so the canon serves the story; these authors don't mind bending or ignoring facts or using less-than-typical interpretations if they feel that forgoing canon makes the story better somehow. I'm not saying that one is better than the other. I know which kind of writer that I am, certainly, but there are excellent authors who prefer the other way of looking at fanfic as well (and, judging by the comments I've gotten on some of my stories, my outlook certainly drives some readers mad!) I remember Sirielle once saying something along the lines of fanfic authors messing with a world that is familiar and beloved to their readers, and so readers sometimes have a knee-jerk negative reaction when they feel like something is wrong in that world, like waking up to find that the sky has turned purple. And I remember Juno saying many times that if she wanted to read Middle-earth exactly as Tolkien intended it, then she would read Tolkien. (I'm not trying to compartmentalize Sirielle and Juno into one interpretative style or the other, but their remarks illustrate far better than I could two different ways of looking at canon.) That said, I have had readers who would snark at an author who got Finarfin's age "wrong." But, personally, I think that if the story works best to have him 100 or 150 or 1500 when he married, then go for it! :) My four cents (since my two American cents aren't worth much these days ;), Dawn PS--Three Keebler E.L. Fudge "Elves Exist" cookies to Viv for using the term baby-daddy in a serious-minded post! :^P -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1184885291-1212186914=:24677 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Alassante7 wrote:
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 15:34:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alassante7
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?")
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.

I think this is why a lot of people are scared to venture into the Silmarillion world of fiction. So much of what was in the Silm was incomplete with chunks in the HoME, parts in the letters, and bits in some annals. Who really knows what JRRT would have written if he had ever finished it himself? One of my friends and I fight ALL the time about the color of Celegorm's hair. Neither of us will cave on it. Its become a long standing joke between us too. Basically IMO it boils down to this - you can write a great fiction within canon completely and you can write an equally great fiction bending canon. And the opposite is true - you can be spot on in canon or bend it every which way to Sunday and if the writing sucks - the writing sucks. Period. The biggest thing is don't let the research obsess you to the point where you don't enjoy writing it or write a brilliant story but keep in mind if  you choose not to follow canon, there might be someone who will point that out to you. No matter who you are and how you write - someone will always not enjoy your writing. Its impossible to please everyone.

I usually try to write as much to canon as possible with the warning that it is strictly from the Silmarillion - even though I do some research in HoME, I don't exhaust myself researching. Hell I was so stoked I actually finished the Silm and understood it - I just enjoy writing and knowing the difference between all the Cele's and all the Fin's.

Dawn Felagund wrote:
Alassante and Viv, your last posts have been really interesting to me because it addresses something that I've noticed in fandom, particularly Tolkien, where our canon is so crabbed and convoluted. Different writers (and readers) approach the canon in their stories in different ways. For some, they string the stories between very meticulously researched canon facts, so the story always serves the canon, and a nifty plot point or well-sketched character is abandoned if it's uncanonical. Others fit the canon into the story, so the canon serves the story; these authors don't mind bending or ignoring facts or using less-than-typical interpretations if they feel that forgoing canon makes the story better somehow.

I'm not saying that one is better than the other. I know which kind of writer that I am, certainly, but there are excellent authors who prefer the other way of looking at fanfic as well (and, judging by the comments I've gotten on some of my stories, my outlook certainly drives some readers mad!)

I remember Sirielle once saying something along the lines of fanfic authors messing with a world that is familiar and beloved to their readers, and so readers sometimes have a knee-jerk negative reaction when they feel like something is wrong in that world, like waking up to find that the sky has turned purple.

And I remember Juno saying many times that if she wanted to read Middle-earth exactly as Tolkien intended it, then she would read Tolkien.

(I'm not trying to compartmentalize Sirielle and Juno into one interpretative style or the other, but their remarks illustrate far better than I could two different ways of looking at canon.)

That said, I have had readers who would snark at an author who got Finarfin's age "wrong."

But, personally, I think that if the story works best to have him 100 or 150 or 1500 when he married, then go for it! :)

My four cents (since my two American cents aren't worth much these days ;),

Dawn

PS--Three Keebler E.L. Fudge "Elves Exist" cookies to Viv for using the term baby-daddy in a serious-minded post! :^P

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1184885291-1212186914=:24677-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1764 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32818 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 22:41:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 22:41:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 22:41:46 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c42.333827d1 (37542) for ; Fri, 30 May 2008 18:41:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-DF02 (webmail-df02.webmail.aol.com [205.188.104.66]) by cia-mb02.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB023-92a6484082a6133; Fri, 30 May 2008 18:41:42 -0400 References: <383734.81845.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <8CA90B72D2FA3A5-15B4-217A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> <1249508865.20080531001223@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 18:41:43 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: <1249508865.20080531001223@tlen.pl> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA90BD77C50DC8_B34_3B92_WEBMAIL-DF02.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36743-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by WEBMAIL-DF02.sysops.aol.com (205.188.104.66) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 30 May 2008 18:41:43 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA90BD77B921ED-B34-1DB0@WEBMAIL-DF02.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Time counting X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ydleEbZqaF9V7-EkMMweP7g1ExUM1KmuUxpQx54j-NvlZPziwmQE X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA90BD77C50DC8_B34_3B92_WEBMAIL-DF02.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm perfectly happy to use the accepted canon dates for most major battles, etc. I just can't imagine certain other events lasting as long--the most unbelievable to me being the length of time that Maedhros?hung from the cliffs of Thangorodrim which lead to all kinds of crazy speculations about feeding him and eliminations of bodily waste. I wanted to count how long Nerdanel waited from when they left until Maedhros was?killed, I would use the length of the First Age plus?another few years before the sun. -----Original Message----- From: Sirielle To: heartofoshun@aol.com Sent: Fri, 30 May 2008 6:12 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Time counting Ai Oshun, Just stepping by for a moment ;) hac> I cannot do the math calculations about sun-years vs. hac> tree-years either. The very concept sets my teeth on edge. This hac> is fiction, not a middle school math exam. And we need no counting - that's what I finally believe, after all the discussions, considering various legendary stages etc. For there were no sun years before the Sun appeared, so what do we want to count? Time started running faster with the Sun, before that it was running/flying/floating/passing/whatever the same in Aman and the rest of Arda. So Nelyo hung only such amount of years of stars (tress?) as annals mention. Later we might need the counting since the moment the Sun appeared if we want to compare for example the amount of time Nerdanel spent in Aman waiting for her sons while they were roaming Beleriand. How many days passed for the mum and for the boys till Nirnaeth? Etc. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/ ----------MB_8CA90BD77C50DC8_B34_3B92_WEBMAIL-DF02.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I'm perfectly happy to use the accepted canon dates for most major battles, etc. I just can't imagine certain other events lasting as long--the most unbelievable to me being the length of time that Maedhros hung from the cliffs of Thangorodrim which lead to all kinds of crazy speculations about feeding him and eliminations of bodily waste.

I wanted to count how long Nerdanel waited from when they left until Maedhros was killed, I would use the length of the First Age plus another few years before the sun.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sirielle
To: heartofoshun@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 30 May 2008 6:12 pm
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Time counting

Ai Oshun,

Just stepping by for a moment ;)

hac> I cannot do the math calculations about sun-years vs.
hac> tree-years either. The very concept sets my teeth on edge. This
hac> is fiction, not a middle school math exam.

And we need no counting - that's what I finally believe, after all the
discussions, considering various legendary stages etc. For there were no
sun years before the Sun appeared, so what do we want to count? Time
started running faster with the Sun, before that it was
running/flying/floating/passing/whatever the same in Aman and
the rest of Arda. So Nelyo hung only such amount of years of stars (tress?) as annals
mention.

Later we might need the counting since the moment the Sun appeared if we want to compare for example
the amount of time Nerdanel spent in Aman waiting for her sons while they were roaming
Beleriand. How many days passed for the mum and for the boys till
Nirnaeth? Etc.

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org/gallery/

----------MB_8CA90BD77C50DC8_B34_3B92_WEBMAIL-DF02.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1765 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84556 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 22:42:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 22:42:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.177) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 22:42:53 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z59so87211pyg.27 for ; Fri, 30 May 2008 15:42:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.181.13 with SMTP id d13mr6964648waf.101.1212187372943; Fri, 30 May 2008 15:42:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 30 May 2008 15:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 18:42:52 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <383734.81845.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_230_19396280.1212187372918" References: <383734.81845.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") 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(was "Canon or Fanon?") 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X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=j7TuCqhT-A2IvAwMVER8SMUfkBBqf4s3rFt_452pjyV_LNUmXK_g X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_253_2383055.1212187847708-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1768 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10912 invoked from network); 30 May 2008 23:01:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2008 23:01:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.172) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2008 23:01:43 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so67711wfc.18 for ; Fri, 30 May 2008 16:01:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.108.14 with SMTP id g14mr897403wfc.181.1212188502804; Fri, 30 May 2008 16:01:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Fri, 30 May 2008 16:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0805301601n32bdfv8d81357a9c45c0d7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 18:01:42 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: bbb9d8e9be99ea89 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=BF8jjMQH1vU3BPT1rSVEFazkLh7HRFHa7BMoSuVWMSzgeg X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel As a fanatical canonite, I have to step forward and defend LaCE and the HoME vols. They are a wonderful resource, if/when they are used properly. I have to admit that when I'm reading fanfic, I do find it very jarring to stumble across inaccuracies. I almost never start reading anything that seems AU from the summery and if I'm reading a supposedly 'canon' story and keep getting bumped out of the story by 'mistakes', I'm quick to click off. and my reasoning is this. It's *fanfiction*. I read it because I like to stay in that world. I do read a lot of 'other stuff', but even then, I expect a 'shared worlds' author to stay in that world, and I expect an author that has created a world to stay true to that world. I don't mean I'm going to get tweaked over a single date or a simple error, but if I'm reading Tolkien Fanfiction and it has otherworldly elements, or it doesn't follow the history and cultures that Tolkien set down - I'm probably not going to keep reading. at the same time, I don't care at all for plodding repeating of canon events. My very favorite stories are those that take canon and use it in creative ways. LaCE is the best example. As has been said, it's the interp of someone from a different race and culture who lived 1000 years after the fact. It's an *ideal*. And I think it should be used as an ideal, not as a strait-jacket. But my point is that it makes no sense to me to disregard it when by using it you can create such delicious conflict when you say "so that's the way it was supposedly supposed to be but "how was it really!?* and *what if...:*". When you disregard it, and the other conflicting bits of history, you - as an author - deprive yourself and your readers of a rich tapestry of backstory to play against. JMO Sulriel From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1769 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76206 invoked from network); 31 May 2008 04:27:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2008 04:27:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.118) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2008 04:27:46 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 31577 invoked by uid 60001); 31 May 2008 04:27:46 -0000 X-Received: from [71.252.209.207] by web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 30 May 2008 21:27:46 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 21:27:46 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <955743.24677.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-166856228-1212208066=:31409" Message-ID: <610736.31409.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Reply-To: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=APF87EOCcuD40vV4IEKw4UpmTIMaUE6NTBonyYrKfOARNVwmpEl2KH0 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-166856228-1212208066=:31409 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I feel I have to point this out because it so rarely happens that I agree -= completely- with someone but, I agree completely with Alassante! ;) There a= re just so many places where little canon tidbits and snippets and hints ca= n be found, that I, at least, find it impossible to read them all! I defini= tely agree that writing is supposed to be fun, and you should not get so hu= ng up on research that you don't enjoy writing the story. I also feel you= on the "strictly Silmarillion-based" bit, Alassante! I am not averse to pe= ople using HoME/other sources in their writing (assuming it's an engaging s= tory) - even I have found inspiration amid the volumes! - but personally I = don't find it necessary. (Actually, I find the HoME volumes to be extremely= tedious; maybe I'm the only one ;) Anyways, Alassante said it very well, = so I'll hush up now. ;) T=E1rion --- On Fri, 5/30/08, Alassante7 wrote:I think this is why a lot of people are scared t= o venture into the Silmarillion world of fiction. So much of what was in th= e Silm was incomplete with chunks in the HoME, parts in the letters, and bi= ts in some annals. Who really knows what JRRT would have written if he had = ever finished it himself? One of my friends and I fight ALL the time about = the color of Celegorm's hair. Neither of us will cave on it. Its become a l= ong standing joke between us too. Basically IMO it boils down to this - you= can write a great fiction within canon completely and you can write an eq= ually great fiction bending canon. And the opposite is true - you can be sp= ot on in canon or bend it every which way to Sunday and if the writing suck= s - the writing sucks. Period. The biggest thing is don't let the research = obsess you to the point where you don't enjoy writing it or write a brillia= nt story but keep in mind if  you choose not to follow canon, there m= ight be someone who will point that out to you. No matter who you are and h= ow you write - someone will always not enjoy your writing. Its impossible t= o please everyone. I usually try to write as much to canon as possible wit= h the warning that it is strictly from the Silmarillion - even though I do = some research in HoME, I don't exhaust myself researching. Hell I was so st= oked I actually finished the Silm and understood it - I just enjoy writing = and knowing the difference between all the Cele's and all the Fin's. = --0-166856228-1212208066=:31409 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--0-166856228-1212208066=:31409-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1770 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46101 invoked from network); 31 May 2008 04:48:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2008 04:48:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.91) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2008 04:48:50 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 74473 invoked by uid 60001); 31 May 2008 04:48:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: FmZgyCAVM1mfZan.Mg031yzo._taC4y4BA3iy39bhpnc3uS.niGGmcmCg_xOZbW9MWdIFaVH2gh55sDuHmlhg54MbuVSRdZUT4mhWQMkarE7KUCpikn1fx0- X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 30 May 2008 21:48:49 PDT Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 21:48:49 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <610736.31409.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-918715560-1212209329=:74445" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <35035.74445.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=MKsunp1c4L2AEPXseQJn2reCXhlYVtPYrYO_3UfAxXqu8XpHzQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-918715560-1212209329=:74445 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit lol YAY I made sense and someone agrees. Tarion Anarore wrote: I feel I have to point this out because it so rarely happens that I agree -completely- with someone but, I agree completely with Alassante! ;) There are just so many places where little canon tidbits and snippets and hints can be found, that I, at least, find it impossible to read them all! I definitely agree that writing is supposed to be fun, and you should not get so hung up on research that you don't enjoy writing the story. I also feel you on the "strictly Silmarillion-based" bit, Alassante! I am not averse to people using HoME/other sources in their writing (assuming it's an engaging story) - even I have found inspiration amid the volumes! - but personally I don't find it necessary. (Actually, I find the HoME volumes to be extremely tedious; maybe I'm the only one ;) Anyways, Alassante said it very well, so I'll hush up now. ;) T�rion --- On Fri, 5/30/08, Alassante7 wrote:I think this is why a lot of people are scared to venture into the Silmarillion world of fiction. So much of what was in the Silm was incomplete with chunks in the HoME, parts in the letters, and bits in some annals. Who really knows what JRRT would have written if he had ever finished it himself? One of my friends and I fight ALL the time about the color of Celegorm's hair. Neither of us will cave on it. Its become a long standing joke between us too. Basically IMO it boils down to this - you can write a great fiction within canon completely and you can write an equally great fiction bending canon. And the opposite is true - you can be spot on in canon or bend it every which way to Sunday and if the writing sucks - the writing sucks. Period. The biggest thing is don't let the research obsess you to the point where you don't enjoy writing it or write a brilliant story but keep in mind if you choose not to follow canon, there might be someone who will point that out to you. No matter who you are and how you write - someone will always not enjoy your writing. Its impossible to please everyone. I usually try to write as much to canon as possible with the warning that it is strictly from the Silmarillion - even though I do some research in HoME, I don't exhaust myself researching. Hell I was so stoked I actually finished the Silm and understood it - I just enjoy writing and knowing the difference between all the Cele's and all the Fin's. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-918715560-1212209329=:74445 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit lol YAY I made sense and someone agrees.

Tarion Anarore wrote:
I feel I have to point this out because it so rarely happens th= at I agree -completely- with someone but, I agree completely with Alassante= ! ;) There are just so many places where little canon tidbits and snippets = and hints can be found, that I, at least, find it impossible to read them a= ll! I definitely agree that writing is supposed to be fun, and you should n= ot get so hung up on research that you don't enjoy writing the story.
<= br>I also feel you on the "strictly Silmarillion-based" bit, Alassante! I a= m not averse to people using HoME/other sources in their writing (assuming = it's an engaging story) - even I have found inspiration amid the volumes! -= but personally I don't find it necessary. (Actually, I find the HoME volum= es to be extremely tedious; maybe I'm the only one ;)

Anyways, Alas= sante said it very well, so I'll hush up now. ;)

T=E1rion

---= On Fri, 5/30/08, Alassante7 wro= te:
I think this is why a lot of people are scared to venture into the Silmari= llion world of fiction. So much of what was in the Silm was incomplete with= chunks in the HoME, parts in the letters, and bits in some annals. Who rea= lly knows what JRRT would have written if he had ever finished it himself? = One of my friends and I fight ALL the time about the color of Celegorm's ha= ir. Neither of us will cave on it. Its become a long standing joke between= us too. Basically IMO it boils down to this - you can write a great fictio= n within canon completely and you can write an equally great fiction bendi= ng canon. And the opposite is true - you can be spot on in canon or bend it= every which way to Sunday and if the writing sucks - the writing sucks. Pe= riod. The biggest thing is don't let the research obsess you to the point w= here you don't enjoy writing it o= r write a brilliant story but keep in mind if  you choose not to follo= w canon, there might be someone who will point that out to you. No matter = who you are and how you write - someone will always not enjoy your writing.= Its impossible to please everyone.

I usually try to write as much t= o canon as possible with the warning that it is strictly from the Silmarill= ion - even though I do some research in HoME, I don't exhaust myself resear= ching. Hell I was so stoked I actually finished the Silm and understood it = - I just enjoy writing and knowing the difference between all the Cele's an= d all the Fin's.
=
I feel I have to point this out because it so rarely happens that I agree -completely- with someone but, I agree completely with Alassante! ;) There are just so many places where little canon tidbits and snippets and hints can be found, that I, at least, find it impossible to read them all! I definitely agree that writing is supposed to be fun, and you should not get so hung up on research that you don't enjoy writing the story.

I also feel you on the "strictly Silmarillion-based" bit, Alassante! I am not averse to people using HoME/other sources in their writing (assuming it's an engaging story) - even I have found inspiration amid the volumes! - but personally I don't find it necessary. (Actually, I find the HoME volumes to be extremely tedious; maybe I'm the only one ;)

Anyways, Alassante said it very well, so I'll hush up now. ;)

T�rion

--- On Fri, 5/30/08, Alassante7 com> wrote:
I think this is why a lot of people are scared to venture into the Silmarillion world of fiction. So much of what was in the Silm was incomplete with chunks in the HoME, parts in the letters, and bits in some annals. Who really knows what JRRT would have written if he had ever finished it himself? One of my friends and I fight ALL the time about the color of Celegorm's hair. Neither of us will cave on it. Its become a long standing joke between us too. Basically IMO it boils down to this - you can write a great fiction within canon completely and you can write an equally great fiction bending canon. And the opposite is true - you can be spot on in canon or bend it every which way to Sunday and if the writing sucks - the writing sucks. Period. The biggest thing is don't let the research obsess you to the point where you don't enjoy writing it or write a brilliant story but keep in mind if  you choose not to follow canon, there might be someone who will point that out to you. No matter who you are and how you write - someone will always not enjoy your writing. Its impossible to please everyone.

I usually try to write as much to canon as possible with the warning that it is strictly from the Silmarillion - even though I do some research in HoME, I don't exhaust myself researching. Hell I was so stoked I actually finished the Silm and understood it - I just enjoy writing and knowing the difference between all the Cele's and all the Fin's.





~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-918715560-1212209329=:74445-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1771 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43627 invoked from network); 31 May 2008 15:36:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2008 15:36:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.128) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2008 15:36:47 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2008 15:36:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2008 15:36:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2008 15:36:47 -0000 Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 15:36:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=3Puu7Q0DwZqV3Cl15QKzvn2BCkyG768J_2AXhRpzSXSkZpQXI4k X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I admit I do get irked when someone interprets a character in a way that i= s far from how I see him or her, but I usually keep reading unless I'm rea= lly bothered by it and often there are other things the author has done th= at bugged me as well to get me to stop reading. I do often notice when thi= ngs in canon were changed or ignored for the sake of the plot, but I don't= geneally complain about it. I instead try to see why the author did that = and how it contribures to the plot. I myself will strictly use canon or no= t as best suits my story. I second the awarding of E.L. Fudge cookies to = Viv for the use of baby- daddy. In fact I think we should pass them around = to the whole group participating in this discussion (I refer to passing ar= ound the cookies, not the baby-daddies). This has been some very interst= ing reading for us lurkers! Ellie > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1772 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23598 invoked from network); 31 May 2008 18:22:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2008 18:22:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.228) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2008 18:22:44 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c30so148510wra.14 for ; Sat, 31 May 2008 11:22:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.106.7 with SMTP id i7mr2203990wam.131.1212258163794; Sat, 31 May 2008 11:22:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Sat, 31 May 2008 11:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 14:22:43 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2688_1266194.1212258163796" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: MEFA 2008 Nominations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=yi-6YG4-wXYObTf2pSKtOsOWt9MpdDokH_XGr4_UtL55_anQmxUJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_2688_1266194.1212258163796-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1773 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26215 invoked from network); 31 May 2008 21:56:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2008 21:56:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n11d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.60) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2008 21:56:16 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2008 21:56:16 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2008 21:56:16 -0000 Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 21:56:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=emDpOXREBjsqXIxlwsbcSw9kPTjkg1Yt09GSA5Jn-qdpUm5xvvWL4-cU X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > > I remember Sirielle once saying something along the= lines of fanfic authors > messing with a world that is familiar and belove= d to their readers, and so > readers sometimes have a knee-jerk negative re= action when they feel like > something is wrong in that world, like waking = up to find that the sky has > turned purple. > > And I remember Juno sayin= g *many* times that if she wanted to read > Middle-earth exactly as Tolkien= intended it, then she would read Tolkien. I am decidedly of the Juno camp= although I have read -- and quite enjoyed -- canon-compliant stories. I th= ink that's an accurate assessment, Dawn: there's a continuum of readers who= range from those wish to read stories as faithful to the original sub-crea= tion as possible to those who are satisfied with expansive interpretation a= nd all points in between. Re: phyncke and Alassante's posts - WORD! Def= ining Tolkienian canon is a slippery slope, probably more so than many othe= r fandoms. By the strictest definitions, some would consider only The Lord = of the Rings and The Hobbit to be "canon." Others, and I am of this persua= sion, include The Silmarillion, The History of Middle-earth, The Letters of= J.R.R. Tolkien and the various volumes of the Parma Eldalamberon to compri= se the whole of the lengendarium. That doesn't mean that I look askance at= a story that does not use these sources. That is because I view the conte= xt of any given story as *mythology* which leaves a lot of room for interpr= etation. Tolkien made it pretty clear that his intention was to create a m= ythology. In fact, that is what "mythopoeia," the word JRRT himself coined= , means. The Silmarillion certainly has that mythic feel and that's largel= y why I love it. Now does the concept of canon have a place in mythology= ? Not really. Look at Greek mythology. There is no strict canon there. = The Greeks had many disparate and sometimes contradictory tales about their= gods and heroes. Tolkien's mythopoeia often seems to reflect that: dispar= ate tales that do not always fit. And that makes for fascinating and ferti= le ground for the fan fic writer of *any* persuasion, canon-compliant or in= terpretation bordering on performance art. Heh. I think there are as many = interpretations of Tolkien's mythos out there as there are readers and writ= ers of our favored sub-genre. For example, I really like Sulriel's commenta= ry on LaCE for a number of reasons, including her posit of using it as a ba= sis for conflict and the "what if?" scenario (see my quote from David Brin = below). I'm also reminded of differences in interpretation. Sulriel and I s= pot the same shiny rock lying on the ground that has "LaCE" engraved in it = (with exquisite Tengwar script, naturally). She looks at it and says LaCE = is an "ideal." I pick it up, turn it over to see things scuttling around o= n its underside and say "It's oppressive doctrine." :^D My own operating p= rinciple derives from David Brin's (one of my favorite heretics) quote: "D= on't just receive your adventures. Toy with them. Re-mold them in your mind= ! Keep asking "What if..." That said, I plumb lots of sources (1) so that = the context of my writing falls into the world recognizable as Middle-earth= . Anyway, honing in on Finarfin's exact age within a mythology to me seems= equivalent to mulling over the exact number of lightning bolts that Zeus h= urled at Cronus. ;^) In an example of how *interpretation* (and perhaps tw= isting) of canon can pay off, I recently bought a relatively new edition of= what is regarded as one of the masterworks of English literature, one that= I read ages ago but am now reading again with "fresh eyes." The author to= ok a canon well-known to many in the Western world and wrote it in a fascin= ating, compelling way -- and one which upset quite a few people. That mast= erwork is Paradise Lost. Signed, pandemonium_213, charter member of the= SWG Heretics Club and John Milton fancrone. (1) I'm a HoMe junkie, but T= he Letters of JRR Tolkien also revealed information not found in the LotR o= r even explicitly in The Silmarillion. But I am also an abject nerd so the= re you go. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1774 Return-Path: X-Sender: WolfwindHA@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95902 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2008 01:48:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2008 01:48:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.102.103) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2008 01:48:28 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n20.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2008 01:48:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2008 01:48:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2008 01:48:28 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:48:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "wolfwindha" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=43piHXbBLi4OZ13vlOqMfjgcJB9r1ZZvw4-e2wgzy9FfIza4n3D3-_Q X-Yahoo-Profile: wolfwindha Just to chime in... I'd probably identify myself in the Stories Serving Ca= non group. But I agree with most of the things everyone else has said - o= n both sides. I would say that I personally am first a researcher, then a= worldbuilder, then a writer. So my first task is to find all Tolkien's in= fo on a given subject, then play with places where canon leaves gaps or ha= s contradictions or doesn't quite fit together, and put my stories there. = And I tend to read other people's work the same way - if they don't speci= fically tell me that something is AU, I assume that it's either canonical = or not in contradiction of canon. But I also treat the canon as history, l= egend, or downright fiction at times. So the fact that LaCE is a Middle-A= ges era document by men about elves seems fine to me, and if someone convi= ncingly disagrees with it, I'll enjoy their story. But to disagree with ca= non without a plausible explanation of why you don't feel canon is trustwo= rthy in that case bugs me. So the jury's still out as to whether I accept = Finarfin's marriage at 50 as binding. But that's the fun of this fandom! = Wolfwind From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1775 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59130 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2008 17:18:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2008 17:18:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.114) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2008 17:18:34 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 97919 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jun 2008 17:18:33 -0000 X-Received: from [71.252.209.207] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 Jun 2008 10:18:33 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 10:18:33 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1769162798-1212340713=:85989" Message-ID: <702210.85989.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Reply-To: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com Subject: June Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=CYDBGwioYYL8dy13Ak4NI4rPG0mJWvDbpmxA7JrM9I4gg4r_DDOW5KI X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1769162798-1212340713=:85989 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello all! Here once again to link you to the monthly newsletter. :) It can be found on our SWG site here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php And at the LiveJournal community here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/123559.html Have fun! Tarion --0-1769162798-1212340713=:85989 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hello all!

Here once again to link you to the monthly newsletter. :)

It can be found on our SWG site here:
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php

And at the LiveJournal community here:
http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/123559.html

Have fun!

Tarion

--0-1769162798-1212340713=:85989-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1776 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6308 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2008 16:28:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2008 16:28:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n20b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.134) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2008 16:28:30 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 16:28:30 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 16:28:30 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 16:28:30 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 16:28:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0805301601n32bdfv8d81357a9c45c0d7@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=D2a9qvLom5o9EtMllntTdP9WcxWdAkSxd06_tGrdjkqhrpY X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel What a terrific discussion, I'm sorry to be chiming in late! I'd just like= to add my two cents (or, following Dawn's lead, four -- or perhaps my Amer= ican two cents is really only worth one cent now? Hee hee). I think that = S=FAlriel's reasoning is spot on: when writing fanfiction the writer shoul= d bear in mind that the common point of interest between themselves and the= ir audience is knowledge of and interest in the world and characters that T= olkien created. Since Tolkien himself left much unresolved and offered a l= ot of contradictions, I think it's reasonable for writers to interpret, inv= ent, and revise ... but when one chooses to do so it's important to keep in= mind that the further one deviates from the common ground of the source ma= terial, the more likely it is that you'll lose the some part of the intende= d audience along the way. And that's okay, right? Because it's fanfiction= , it's being written and read purely for the pleasure of it, and if I don't= appreciate the author's take on what happens to canonical Tolkien characte= rs, then I don't have to read the story. Or review it. And I don't have t= o justify my disinterest in the story. Dawn and Viv have astutely pointed = out that different readers and writers have different motives for participa= ting in the Tolkien fanfiction community. Someone cited a comment made b= y Juno, that if she wanted to read about Middle Earth exactly as Tolkien wr= ote about it, she'd read Tolkien. I see some merit in that perspective, es= pecially as it pertains to the reliability of things like LaCE as normative= historical documents that don't necessary encompass the whole truth. But = I think that Juno's comment (as cited here, at least) overlooks the basic r= eason that some portion of the Tolkien fanfiction audience is reading in th= e first place: to see expansions of Tolkien's world that complement what t= hey've already got in their minds as the result of having read Tolkien's or= iginal work. So when it comes to the debate between stories that serve c= anon or are served by it, I think it's a matter of how well the writer's an= d reader's primary motives are aligned. Speaking for myself, I'm relativel= y flexible about small points, dates, etc. ... but as Ellie and others have= said, I find it difficult to read wildly divergent depictions that render = canonical characters unrecognizable. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1777 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62008 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2008 16:50:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2008 16:50:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.136) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2008 16:50:51 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 16:50:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 16:50:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 16:50:50 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 16:50:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=CG-wae2LhdlBZUcwsak6C1F5WKlyx5udqFi4q8vfP1pqFGQ X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Pandemonium: hear hear! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1778 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11552 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2008 19:14:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2008 19:14:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n32b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.212) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2008 19:14:08 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n32.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 19:14:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 19:14:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 19:14:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:14:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=5n8zkkwjwtEQrQGH2aPwzNbgi2-spX7vx6rXLsQUqBEepvk X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel I've also come to this fascinating discussion late (was grading final paper= s and exams over the last two weeks!), but just have to say that my hat is = off to you, pandemonium, for such a thorough and considered response to a v= ery tricky question! First of all, I absolutely agree about the research f= indings using mouse models (mice share, I believe, 92% of our genes, so bas= ic functioning vis a vis things like light responsivity are likely to be ve= ry similar). In fact, a recent finding based on research with mice suggest= s an interesting interaction between exposure to light and hunger: http://= www.reuters.com/articlePrint?articleId=3DUSN2252042720080522 Like you, I a= ppreciate Tolkien's later attempts to align his world with a closer approxi= mation of what science tells us about our world (e.g. that it's round), imp= erfect though they are, and as others have said, I'm reasonably satisfied w= ith suspending disbelief about certain explanations with the implicit under= standing that those accounts are part of a mythology. It's interesting tha= t scientifically minded inquiries into the nitty-gritty of How Things Might= Work is associated with Morgoth ... I guess I have to count myself with hi= s team. I've long been curious about what Tolkien thought about evolution = by natural selection. Because if Men and Elves are the same race, then the= Elves would be "mutant" humans, if one believes in the chain of evidence s= uggesting that humans evolved from earlier primate species. By mutant, I s= imply mean a genetic change that afforded an indefinite lifespan and the ot= her differences between Elves and Men. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1779 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26734 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2008 20:01:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2008 20:01:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2008 20:01:42 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 28674 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2008 20:01:42 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: .cBRp84VM1khWsZOBYsRwC5OXmsWrEvmdze0vMg4BBs_1alKYgqMois42aZPDFiR5Y3iaF9sYfMjK2sLb8vMcM.PIFUI9AgzJs4B3tpgY17Pe_47D1YGWlE- X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:01:42 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:01:42 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-867549272-1212436902=:27087" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <95405.27087.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Electronic Docs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=FGNE14SpoZpzBydLKxqBlGliZPc_r-a3kJ_Ior8_USrrRSQwNQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-867549272-1212436902=:27087 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone have the Silm, Children of Hurin, and/or UT in digital format? ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-867549272-1212436902=:27087 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone have the Silm, Children of Hurin, and/or UT in digital format?


~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-867549272-1212436902=:27087-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1780 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94322 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2008 20:06:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2008 20:06:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.118) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2008 20:06:56 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 60135 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2008 20:06:52 -0000 X-Received: from [71.252.209.207] by web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:06:52 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:06:52 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <95405.27087.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1978451174-1212437212=:57878" Message-ID: <885528.57878.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Reply-To: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Electronic Docs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=xwTXRTV5l9G-4kxkj1FiWibSwgfi--WTF2F7f_L3UvsF7wtxAN1RtCE X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1978451174-1212437212=:57878 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There's an .doc version of the Silm under our group files: http://groups.ya= hoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/files/ :D Sadly, we don't have CoH = or UT on the files page, but hopefully someone here has a copy on their com= puter! T=E1rion --- On Mon, 6/2/08, Alassante7

All of this speculation is inrteresting and logical, but I = have no idea if Tolkien knew anything whatsoever about genetics, recessive= traits, red hair, etc. Also, I like the idea of Celegorm being blond. But= the word "fair" as used by Tolkien, if you look it up in the OED, does no= t exclusively mean blond at all, but simply pleasant to look at.


AOL now offers free email to= everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174850358-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 825 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56490 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 19:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 19:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.126) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 19:36:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 53047 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2007 19:29:51 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: g4Ay6tEVM1nDkQ6l2YyMB.ogNV3I7A3SSS5U_VZr3tFy4bVXf7mMKxUthaMgdBl0BDMYwSiLyj2mGHvS0SvYQ7HjkaYP9tG3j5SHrGxtc9Uf4.EhK.av5O4HzSni8cNw7lGNR1C9N0QtrhesotvgJRePvg-- Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:29:51 PDT Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:29:51 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2129534306-1174850991=:53038" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <436325.53038.qm@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=gAa-s8CPWXMLTm035rnVNjA8-pFgowmOCne7A0JmXdpMFgTyf4JPc0c X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-2129534306-1174850991=:53038 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I have no idea if Tolkien knew anything whatsoever about genetics, recessive traits, red hair, etc. Probably not. The genetics of red hair color was discovered, if you will, in 1997. Sure, there's been studies of genetics for a long time, but hair is especially tricky. ;-) >>But the word "fair" as used by Tolkien, if you look it up in the OED, does not exclusively mean blond at all, but simply pleasant to look at. And Celegorm is *definitely* pleasant to look at. ;-) ~T�rion --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. --0-2129534306-1174850991=:53038 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I have no idea if Tolkien knew anything whatsoever about genetics, recessive traits, red hair, etc.

Probably not. The genetics of red hair color was discovered, if you will, in 1997. Sure, there's been studies of genetics for a long time, but hair is especially tricky. ;-)

>>But the word "fair" as used by Tolkien, if you look it up in the OED, does not exclusively mean blond at all, but simply pleasant to look at.

And Celegorm is *definitely* pleasant to look at. ;-)


~T�rion

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. --0-2129534306-1174850991=:53038-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 826 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97769 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 19:50:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 19:50:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web58308.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.161) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 19:50:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 37078 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2007 19:50:38 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: mCHCWGsVM1k8f6liLCHtyRIpZZ5.jyIg17zLw1ncusvwmgSyCmZkQITyvh4ydoHn.lb08788aRdHGOoLRo8SmmgeS5ki9N7RX9Idezb_8ovW8KGQo.yl23Z5UGcw5aRl1GSuXGtNFaDKng-- Received: from [71.235.106.34] by web58308.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:50:38 PDT Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:50:38 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2086218466-1174852238=:31003" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <818358.31003.qm@web58308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Niki S." Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Celegorm's Hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=3LXFqNbT_bWPEuKX0RNgXn2FhZFbEyykeqpmELjpPopwVDUFVA X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes --0-2086218466-1174852238=:31003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's a footnote from The Lost Road and Other Tales about Celegorm's hair: Then Celegorm arose amid the throng (p. 169). In [Quenta Silmarillion] this is followed by 'golden was his long hair'. In the Lay at this point (line 1884) Celegorm has 'gleaming hair'; his Old English name was Cynegrim F�gerfeax ('Fair Hair'), IV. 213. The phrase was removed in The Silmarillion text on account of the dark hair of the Noldorin princes other than 'the golden house of Finarfin' (see I. 44); but he remains 'Celegorm the Fair' on p. 60. For what that's worth... (personally, I still imagine him with a shade of dark/"dirty blond" hair. Or at least a lighter brunette hair than the rest of them.) Though maybe he got his epithet from a time he tried wearing one of Mommy's dresses outside as a young kid and everyone jokingly called him "Celegorm the Fair" to tease him for the rest of his life... -Pulsarkat heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/25/2007 1:24:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, marielprosser@yahoo.com writes: So a red-haired Nerdanel may be fanon, but at least it is very reasonable fanon based on the details we know from canon. The only strike against this point is that if Maedhros is specifically said to have gotten his red hair from his grandfather, then it is possible his mother didn't have it. Recessive traits *can* skip a generation. All of this speculation is inrteresting and logical, but I have no idea if Tolkien knew anything whatsoever about genetics, recessive traits, red hair, etc. Also, I like the idea of Celegorm being blond. But the word "fair" as used by Tolkien, if you look it up in the OED, does not exclusively mean blond at all, but simply pleasant to look at. --------------------------------- AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. --0-2086218466-1174852238=:31003 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's a footnote from The Lost Road and Other Tales about Celegorm's hair:

Then Celegorm arose amid the throng (p. 169). In [Quenta Silmarillion] this is followed by 'golden was his long hair'. In the Lay at this point (line 1884) Celegorm has 'gleaming hair'; his Old English name was Cynegrim F�gerfeax ('Fair Hair'), IV. 213. The phrase was removed in The Silmarillion text on account of the dark hair of the Noldorin princes other than 'the golden house of Finarfin' (see I. 44); but he remains 'Celegorm the Fair' on p. 60.

For what that's worth... (personally, I still imagine him with a shade of dark/"dirty blond" hair. Or at least a lighter brunette hair than the rest of them.)

Though maybe he got his epithet from a time he tried wearing one of Mommy's dresses outside as a young kid and everyone jokingly called him "Celegorm the Fair" to tease him for the rest of his life...

-Pulsarkat

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/25/2007 1:24:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, marielprosser@yahoo.com writes:
So a red-haired Nerdanel may be fanon, but at least it is very
reasonable fanon based on the details we know from canon. The only
strike against this point is that if Maedhros is specifically said
to have gotten his red hair from his grandfather, then it is
possible his mother didn't have it. Recessive traits *can* skip a
generation.

All of this speculation is inrteresting and logical, but I have no idea if Tolkien knew anything whatsoever about genetics, recessive traits, red hair, etc. Also, I like the idea of Celegorm being blond. But the word "fair" as used by Tolkien, if you look it up in the OED, does not exclusively mean blond at all, but simply pleasant to look at.



AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. --0-2086218466-1174852238=:31003-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 827 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3127 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 19:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 19:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.117) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 19:58:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 11314 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2007 19:56:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _cTEwpIVM1lgnygi0WvpPyypjVyt1EgSn1FC65k_Hl4WVbau_m28v8on5GO1RhKfWsrIPx3DRL.aii1_G7fPs7knKSky0FBob9bmn_D8EEImcv6j_NHkIDybGIzZGyRlE.se7_VYEA9ZD.HqctVjnAvc Received: from [129.82.63.248] by web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:56:06 PDT Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:56:06 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <818358.31003.qm@web58308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1926946872-1174852566=:10668" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <161276.10668.qm@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Celegorm's Hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=Lw5s6GHHGeCSX4aa7pAO0SDdlHGz76WFSwn93qHGdZx7NnnDZsIthI0 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1926946872-1174852566=:10668 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Though maybe he got his epithet from a time he tried wearing one of Mommy's dresses outside as a young kid and everyone jokingly called him "Celegorm the Fair" to tease him for the rest of his life... Lol!!! I like that idea... ~T�rion --------------------------------- Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. --0-1926946872-1174852566=:10668 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Though maybe he got his epithet from a time he tried wearing one of Mommy's dresses outside as a young kid and everyone jokingly called him "Celegorm the Fair" to tease him for the rest of his life...

Lol!!! I like that idea...


~T�rion

Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. --0-1926946872-1174852566=:10668-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 828 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79900 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 20:13:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 20:13:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 20:13:41 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.c33.e1313c3 (43930) for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:12:59 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174853579" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Celegorm's Hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=t4yW-soxj7ox2achSnN-gXmOI_Dev-SIbAAlz9xl03K9ZPr9tNdO X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174853579 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/25/2007 2:50:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, sinneaht= es@yahoo.com writes: Here's a footnote from The Lost Road and Other= Tales about Celegorm's hair: Then Celegorm arose amid the throng (p. 169= ). In [Quenta Silmarillion] this is followed by 'golden was his long hair= '. In the Lay at this point (line 1884) Celegorm has 'gleaming hair'; his= Old English name was Cynegrim F=E6gerfeax ('Fair Hair'), IV. 213. The ph= rase was removed in The Silmarillion text on account of the dark hair of= the Noldorin princes other than 'the golden house of Finarfin' (see I. 4= 4); but he remains 'Celegorm the Fair' on p. 60. Oh, goody. I'll t= ake that as sufficient license to make him have light hair--I like my dar= k-haired Noldor just fine but I just wish for a little variety now and th= en. Plus I have some very cherished descriptions of Celgorm as fair/golde= n. Not the least of which is Dawn's F.'s description of him as a child in= her novel: "But tonight, she takes a long time to weave my hair in an el= aborate series of braids, tiny enough that a good deal of my hair is left t= o spill freely over my shoulders, and carefully nestles my circlet atop i= t. In the mirror, I meet my own eyes and see a different Elf than stares = back at me each morning, one that looks like a prince from Tirion.... Ami= l kisses my temple. 'You are beautiful, Tyelkormo,' she says, and a thoug= ht flashes through my mind before I even realize that I am thinking: Of c= ourse I am." It's bits like this that make me such a sucker for Dawn's wr= iting. Also, I want those braids to be golden. **********************= **************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more abo= ut what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174853579 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
In a messa= ge dated 3/25/2007 2:50:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, sinneahtes@yahoo.com = writes:

Here's a fo= otnote from The Lost Road and= Other Tales about Celegorm's hair:

Then Celegorm arose amid the throng <= /SPAN>(p. 169). In [Quenta Silmaril= lion] this is followed by 'golden was his long hair'. In the Lay at this= point (line 1884) Celegorm has 'gleaming hair'; his Old English name was = Cynegrim F=E6gerfeax ('Fair Hair'), IV. 213. The phrase was removed in = The Silmar= illion text on account of th= e dark hair of the Noldorin princes other than 'the golden house of Fina= rfin' (see I. 44); but he remains 'Celegorm the Fair' on p. 60. =

Oh,= goody. I'll take that as sufficient license to make him have light hair--= I like my dark-haired Noldor just fine but I just wish for a little variet= y now and then. Plus I have some very cherished descriptions of Celgorm as = fair/golden. Not the least of which is Dawn's F.'s description of him as a= child in her novel: "But tonight, she takes a long time to weave my hair = in an elaborate series of braids, tiny enough that a good deal of my hair = is left to spill freely over my shoulders, and carefully nestles my circle= t atop it. In the mirror, I meet my own eyes and see a different Elf than = stares back at me each morning, one that looks like a prince from Tirion..= ..
Amil kisses my temple. 'You are beautiful, Tyelkormo,' she sa= ys, and a thought flashes through my mind before I even realize that I am = thinking: Of course I am."
 
= It's bits like this that make me such a sucker for Dawn's writing. Also, I = want those braids to be golden.

=

AOL now offers free email to everyone. = Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
= -------------------------------1174853579-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 829 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27719 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 20:32:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 20:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.125) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 20:32:52 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 20:32:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 20:32:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 20:32:31 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:32:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=OHejJPao7Pa6rGrSH2iFge9GDWp1eGAzwMmL3zXQ1v7BJYIQwikjW0I X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > > > Except > > > somethings occur to a lot of people s= imultaneously that seem > > > logical and are not really canon. For exampl= e: red-haired > > > Nerdanel. > > > That's in canon... I read it in POME= I think when I was > > researching Mathan for someone else. > > I'm inte= rested where you found this quote because I've looked and > never been able= to find anything in the HoMe that states that > Nerdanel had red* hair. >= > (*And when I say red, I include all the variations: copper, reddish, > = red-brown, auburn ... I've been told off enough times for using "red > hair= " for these colors, but it's simply easier to type! :) I know now for who = I researched it at LJ, but I can't access the post anymore. It was more abo= ut beards anyway ;) The thing is, it comes down to pure semantics (isn't t= hat fun?), so I can see where both sides are coming from. "Carnistir 'red-= face' - he was dark (brown) haired, but had the ruddy complexion of his mot= her." Now with complexion, I have been taught that it is the face, hair, s= kin and such (the same with how people can discuss fair where I have been t= aught that doesn't necessarily mean blonde, even more so a recent thorough = search through Lord of the Rings for Marta showed me that the word The fair= (oncluding words as fair-haired, fair-faced) was connected to characters w= ho all had and there were no exceptions, dark hair.). Depending on how you = see the word complexion... I'd say everything, it can be a glance, glint, h= ighlights just as I have different shades of blonde in my hair during summe= r. Another thing in where you might wonder about semantics is this one: "= The other is supposed to be a colour word, referring to the red, red-brown = hair of the first, sixth, and seventh sons of Feanor, descending to them fr= om their maternal grandfather, father of Nerdanel, Feanor's wife, a great = craftsman, devoted to the Vala Aule." It can be argued that this line was = written how Tolkien intended to show how the hair colour passed through Ner= danel's line, from her father to her to her sons. But I am really not in a= mood to discuss semantics of words & sentences because I have been down th= at road too often and frankly: if the story is well written, I really don't= care what hair colour she or another canon character has (oh I know there = are people who throw a hissy fit over it). To me, given how I have been tau= ght the English language, Nerdanel had that hair colour. > > > I also like= Dawn giving Maglor a musician as a wife. Makes so > > > much sense to me= ... > > > That's in canon too. > > That Maglor's wife was a musician? N= o, that he gets a wife ^-^, I read it more as Maglor, a musician, a wife. M= y bad. >> Or when I create a complete backstory for Erestor in the Inner = >> light, given that there isn't so much about the elf in canon, I do >> k= now that *I* am making it up. > > Yes, I did this too in "By the Light of = Roses," so I feel your pain. > :) And being somewhat lazy when it comes to = Erestor, I will admit > that I stuck to many of the fanon ideas about him.= Hmmm, I gave him such an intriguing and so utterly different background = than what you see in fanon. > I simply lacked the strength to get into dra= wn-out debates with > readers about a text with which I am not too familia= r. (BtLoR was > written for a good friend; she requested Erestor, so I obl= iged. :) Oh I know LOTR in and out, also the HOME bits, so I took everythi= ng I could find and made a 1st age elf out of him, born on Valinor, servant= of Maglor, marrying a Laiquendi elf, loosing his family during the Dagor B= ragollach, being involved with Elrond and Elros when they were wee!ones, ma= king it to Mithlond, earning respect there despite who he served, ending up= at Imladris... and well LOL This is half of the story. > I love to discus= s canon in groups like this, where we're all just > batting around ideas, = interpretations, and our own collection of > obscure quotes and informatio= n. ;) But I will admit that it is > terribly frustrating to have spent yea= rs researching this book and > its attendant works to have a reader fly of= f the handle because I > don't adhere to fanon or necessarily agree with a= nd use his/her > personal interpretation of what is said in the books. We= ll even so, we all have our own !verses and as long if we know which is our= !verse, what Tolkien wrote and what the other wrote and is coming from... = It's more fun being intrigued by the world and interpretation of the other.= .. that is what matters. For me that is :) Thanks to Sirielle I have this r= eally weird Argon bunny ;) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 830 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30858 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 20:42:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 20:42:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.244) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 20:42:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 20:42:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 20:42:14 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:42:13 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <818358.31003.qm@web58308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Celegorm's Hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=fJ8voSkK2XqoPkZpR1Z91KKzMZ-RP67ISMU1jRSIsKab1mWCq7vZ9i4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Niki S." = wrote: You guys *had* to start this didn't ya? > Here's a footnote from = The Lost Road and Other Tales about > Celegorm's hair: > > Then Celegorm = arose amid the throng (p. 169). In [Quenta ] > Silmarillion] this is follow= ed by 'golden was his long hair'. In the > Lay at this point (line 1884) Ce= legorm has 'gleaming hair'; his Old > English name was Cynegrim F=E6gerfea= x ('Fair Hair'), IV. 213. The > phrase was removed in The Silmarillion tex= t on account of the dark > hair of the Noldorin princes other than 'the go= lden house of > Finarfin' (see I. 44); but he remains 'Celegorm the Fair' = on p. 60. Also I want to add this: In Tolkien's earlier mythology, Elves = were predominantly blond, and only the Noldor were dark haired. Christopher= Tolkien wrote, "I pointed out that the words "'They were tall, fair of ski= n and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of = Finrod [Finarfin]' were originally written of the Noldor only, and not of a= ll the Eldar=85" (HoME XII, The Appendix on Languages, p. 77). "They were = tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the= golden house of Finarfin; and their voices had more melodies than any mort= al voice that now is heard." (LOTR, Appendix F) Copying this from a recent= comment (the whole question was about if there was a phrase of Frodo the F= air in LoTR (which it wasn't): My Thesaurus says: a fair (noun) is a trave= ling show or carnival or a gathering of producers to promote business - fai= r (adjective) means free from favoritism or self-interest or bias or decept= ion, or very pleasing to the eye, or not excessive or extreme; fare (noun) = is the sum charged for transportation, or the food and drink that are regul= arly consumed - fare (verb) to get along or proceed For example, Fair does= not always equal blonde in Tolkien's work. Luthien was called fair and yet= she had dark hair ;) >From LOTR: Tin=FAviel the elven-fair, Immortal maid= en elven-wise, About him cast her shadowy hair And arms like silver glimmer= ing. Finwe (and many of his house) were named fair and yet he had dark hai= r.. Look at how he describes Glorfindel: Glorfindel was tall and straigh= t; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and f= ull of joy; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his= brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was strength. It always strikes me as sp= ecial that when people are blonde, the professor does mention that explicit= ely: Thranduil, Idril, Glorfindel, Indis. The following people have been c= alled The Fair in LOTR: Arwen: In the middle of the table, against the wov= en cloths upon the wall, there was a chair under a canopy, and there sat a = lady fair to look upon, and so like was she in form of womanhood to Elrond = that Frodo guessed that she was one of his close kindred. Young she was and= yet not so. The braids of her dark hair were touched by no frost, her whit= e arms and clear face were flawless and smooth, and the light of stars was = in her bright eyes, grey as a cloudless night; yet queenly she looked, and = thought and knowledge were in her glance, as of one who has known many thin= gs that the years bring. Boromir: And seated a little apart was a tall man= with a fair and noble face, dark-haired and grey-eyed, proud and stern of = glance. And he was called : Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and = I grieve.... Eowyn: Very fair was her face, and her long hair was like a r= iver of gold. I stumbled upon Elendil the Fair, Hirluin the Fair.. Imrahil= the fair (who had dark hair and grey eyes), Elanor the Fair, Gilraen the F= air, Elfwine the Fair .... *mind boggles* LOL > For what that's worth..= . (personally, I still imagine him with a > shade of dark/"dirty blond" ha= ir. Or at least a lighter brunette > hair than the rest of them.) Always= dark raven hair for me. But I read him anyway. > Though maybe he got his= epithet from a time he tried wearing one of > mommy's dresses outside as = a young kid and everyone jokingly called > him "Celegorm the Fair" to teas= e him for the rest of his life... LOL! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 831 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64957 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 20:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 20:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 20:55:30 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.c1a.144c4cd8 (43930) for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:55:10 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174856110" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Celegorm's Hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=AOdk0ush1WfbVmP-z7VmS4qO24h-gMlDmmQp4TwnBHp6idrlC4BX X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174856110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Fair =E2=80=93 my handy dictionary gives the first definition of the adj= ective fair as being the following: (Etymology: Middle English fager, fai= r, from Old English f=C3=A6ger; akin to Old High German fagar beautiful) = 1 : pleasing to the eye or mind especially because of fresh, charming, or= flawless quality. My thesaurus says: pale, light, blond, fair-haired, fl= axen AND fine, good, bright. I totally agree that Tolkien portrays almost= everybody that he explicitly refers to as being =E2=80=9Cfair=E2=80=9D a= s having black hair and gray eyes. I chose blond for Celegorm just for fu= n and variety. Didn=E2=80=99t even know that Tolkien himself had ever toy= ed with the idea. ************************************** AOL now offers= free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http= ://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174856110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en

Fair =E2=80=93 my handy dictionary gives the first definition of= the adjective fair as being the following: (Etymology: Middle English fager, fair, from Old English f=C3=A6ger; akin to Old High = German fagar beautiful) 1 : pleasing to the eye or mind especiall= y because of fresh, charming, or flawless quality.

 

My thesaurus says: pale, light, blond, fair-h= aired, flaxen AND fine, good, bright.

 

I totally agree that Tolkien portrays almo= st everybody that he explicitly refers to as being =E2=80=9Cfair= =E2=80=9D as having black hair and gray eyes. I chose blond for Celegorm j= ust for fun and variety. Didn=E2=80=99t even know that Tolkien himself had= ever toyed with the idea.



AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more abo= ut what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174856110-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 832 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48737 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 21:14:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 21:14:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.252) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 21:14:50 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 21:12:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 21:12:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 21:12:01 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:12:01 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=6ATZ8xeh12bSGPrtGnPG5HjcVydbEu_YNhPRwPMyGIbAKiug4IJYgfA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "marielprosser" wrote: > > > I am quite certain that, without outside aid, Maedh= ros was indeed > starving. > > Now, his spirit may have been too stubborn= to give up, as you > suggest, and thus he inhabited a broken body long pa= st other's > endurance limits. Quite possible. But there is no way he li= ved on > bugs for years. I don't know, I leave it up to his fan fic write= rs to make a decision about that :) > True, the dates are not included in= the Sil. But the Silm. dates > correspond to the Tale of Years Tolkien w= as using (ie, Battle of > Sudden Flame occuring 455 years after the rising= of the sun), so we > can use dates from that to figure out how long Maedh= ros was in > bondage. And it was quite awhile.... No but there is an A, = B and C version of the Grey Annals with different dates. So whatever is rig= ht and what is wrong... that is hard to say. So I rather not use dates from= that unless in every version it's the same one. I heard someone saying on= ce that it was fifty years. Elsewhere I read seven years. > So, it would = not be unreasonable to say that Maedhros was hanging by > his wrist for ab= out 15+ years before the sun rose, and then another > 5 years after that. = So, that's 20-25 years of the sun. Of course, > if you count Years of th= e Trees as "years" it's only 2 1/2 years. > But either way, it is *far* t= oo long to survive without food, even > if you are a hardy Firstborn newco= me from Aman. And yet he did. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 833 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90642 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 21:19:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 21:19:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 21:19:45 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.c69.ea8455c (43930) for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:19:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:19:27 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174857567" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Survival (was: Common fan fiction injuries) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=g4zW1rN-oRaM0wqHucpQmFoa5dBGqUTYTFXsUG_DI-fz-D0wCPOl X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174857567 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I heard someone saying once that it was fifty years. Elsewhere I read seven years. I'll still read the stories that use either of these figures, but I can't believe either of them--even for a fantasy novel. I don't believe Methuselah lived for 969 years or the world was created in six days either. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174857567 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
I heard someone saying once that it was fif= ty years. Elsewhere I read
seven years.
I'll still read the stories that use either of these figures,= but I can't believe either of them--even for a fantasy novel. I don't bel= ieve Methuselah lived for 969 years or the world was created in six days = either.



AOL now offers f= ree email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174857567-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 834 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92174 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 21:20:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 21:20:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.108) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 21:20:31 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n11.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 21:20:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 21:20:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 21:20:30 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:20:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1047567141.20070325192753@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Darkening of Valinor (Was freezing ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=rQ17BoTXNSFY8Jt8sLRAALbxshGD_Dsn-c0lLReTLRiHKO_UL7n5GVk X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle wr= ote: > > and I bet it wasn't hard for Christopher to execute his father= 's > > legacy. > > I guess you wanted to say "it wasn't easy"? Yeah, I = shouldn't be reading this group in the deep of the night. Sorry. > He did = it with someone else in so short period of time, that > misinterpretations= were inevitable, even if he discussed many times > the legendary with his= father. I relate to a discussion we had on it > somewhere else and people = agreed that if the editors allowed > themselves to have more time, the fin= al Silmarillion would be more > coherent and whole. Yeah, I wonder how Ch= ildren of H=FArin will be like. >> I always love reading the notes, compa= re manuscripts and oh the >> Letters, the letters of the professor are suc= h gems to read. I love >> the process of thought behind something. > > Hav= ing a possibility to compare all the possible materials is great, > but not= everyone of us can do it. So it's great to have discussions > and others s= haring their interpretations. Also I wonder how valid > information from le= tters is - in the end they are not essays, but > thoughts Tolkien had in a = moment of writing to someone, it might be > temporarily idea, rejected late= r or something he had in mind but > never out in words again. No, but it = are his words and where he explains the mythology and themes in his own wor= ds. It stands so much closer to the professor himself than when Christopher= edits and attaches his own notes to it. The beauty of the letters is that= you see the professor grows as a writer himself over the course of time. = >> What I do take issue with is with stories based on works of others >>= where things are invented for the purpose of a plot and it becomes >> fan= on suddenly: like invented brothers, uncles. It usually makes >> me go li= ke: eh? > > And I borrowed something from someone once, too. It should bec= ome > fanon ;) It doesn't worry me until people take it for canon. I'm > ra= ther irritated by Sindar being blond or silver and such ideas. > I must say= I teat elves not being able to starve to death as fanon, > too. But that's= another thread for it. It all depends on how a writer would see starvatio= n as a process of pain that makes the spirit want to forsake the body: what= would be the pain level per elf for example. Miriel suffered greatly with = giving birth to F=EBanor, so badly that she wanted to forsake her body. Oth= er moms didn't, just as in our world not every pregnancy is the same: some = deliveries (even for first babies) can be a walk in the park for one, the o= ther is in a lot of pain. It's so personal. As you said earlier on in a dif= ferent message, it depends on where you come from and what you experienced = yourself. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 835 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89355 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 21:23:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 21:23:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 21:23:22 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 21:23:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 21:23:21 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:23:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <680605.23992.qm@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Plot Bunnies (was: Freezing) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=e_i47r2FfW9GGZc2sOIeAAAF4AhXAkruFJ__0Bn7SOwPQjr-Dw0YSV0 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Tarion Anarore wrote: > > >>Any takers? I have antsy plot bunnies enough by now!= > > Maybe after these discussion we need to have a sort of plot bunny > = garage sale! ;-) LOL I hope at the site we have a somesort of bunny nurser= y where I can dump those silm bunnies that batter their eyelashes at me. ;c= ) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 836 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72667 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 21:35:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 21:35:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web58307.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.160) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 21:35:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 19344 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2007 21:35:26 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: IUaJqAcVM1n36AITAs8F3igIxAZF2bO3tVg3Yiux_G1LLK3loMQuZr6xr87pHBtoer53B1jrqnKUHUpos8IXt6Vo_nQFFSD9QnDl0SKBXbLIhPqYmCIDFb2MJFtUUPVBp7MCHEHdoYikxFU- Received: from [71.235.106.34] by web58307.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:35:26 PDT Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:35:26 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-3230204-1174858526=:18136" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <337325.18136.qm@web58307.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Niki S." Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Celegorm's Hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=IiWWdNThE0T9WPpqEFjlL0ToaqlRIR9H7l2P9jKUSA7PUM52sg X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes --0-3230204-1174858526=:18136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Heh, yeah--I don't normally associate "fair" with "blond" myself, actually, if only because people often say I'm fair (as in "pasty-skinned," not "notably beautiful" or "light haired"). And I was pretty surprised that Tolkien ever had Celegorm be explicitly blond, even if he abandoned the idea... if I'd never come across fanfic or that passage, I'd probably have imagined him as dark-haired and pasty-skinned. But I'll admit the "Celegorm is a blond" bias for me is probably because someone somewhere wrote a blond Celegorm that somehow reminded me of my brother for some reason, and my brother happens to have blond hair (as well as a red-haired mother and a dark-haired father and a red-haired oldest sibling). ;) Funny what can influence a mental picture! -Pulsarkat rhapsody_the_bard wrote: --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Niki S." wrote: You guys *had* to start this didn't ya? > Here's a footnote from The Lost Road and Other Tales about > Celegorm's hair: > > Then Celegorm arose amid the throng (p. 169). In [Quenta ] > Silmarillion] this is followed by 'golden was his long hair'. In the > Lay at this point (line 1884) Celegorm has 'gleaming hair'; his Old > English name was Cynegrim F�gerfeax ('Fair Hair'), IV. 213. The > phrase was removed in The Silmarillion text on account of the dark > hair of the Noldorin princes other than 'the golden house of > Finarfin' (see I. 44); but he remains 'Celegorm the Fair' on p. 60. Also I want to add this: In Tolkien's earlier mythology, Elves were predominantly blond, and only the Noldor were dark haired. Christopher Tolkien wrote, "I pointed out that the words "'They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finrod [Finarfin]' were originally written of the Noldor only, and not of all the Eldar�" (HoME XII, The Appendix on Languages, p. 77). "They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finarfin; and their voices had more melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard." (LOTR, Appendix F) Copying this from a recent comment (the whole question was about if there was a phrase of Frodo the Fair in LoTR (which it wasn't): My Thesaurus says: a fair (noun) is a traveling show or carnival or a gathering of producers to promote business - fair (adjective) means free from favoritism or self-interest or bias or deception, or very pleasing to the eye, or not excessive or extreme; fare (noun) is the sum charged for transportation, or the food and drink that are regularly consumed - fare (verb) to get along or proceed For example, Fair does not always equal blonde in Tolkien's work. Luthien was called fair and yet she had dark hair ;) From LOTR: Tin�viel the elven-fair, Immortal maiden elven-wise, About him cast her shadowy hair And arms like silver glimmering. Finwe (and many of his house) were named fair and yet he had dark hair.. Look at how he describes Glorfindel: Glorfindel was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of joy; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was strength. It always strikes me as special that when people are blonde, the professor does mention that explicitely: Thranduil, Idril, Glorfindel, Indis. The following people have been called The Fair in LOTR: Arwen: In the middle of the table, against the woven cloths upon the wall, there was a chair under a canopy, and there sat a lady fair to look upon, and so like was she in form of womanhood to Elrond that Frodo guessed that she was one of his close kindred. Young she was and yet not so. The braids of her dark hair were touched by no frost, her white arms and clear face were flawless and smooth, and the light of stars was in her bright eyes, grey as a cloudless night; yet queenly she looked, and thought and knowledge were in her glance, as of one who has known many things that the years bring. Boromir: And seated a little apart was a tall man with a fair and noble face, dark-haired and grey-eyed, proud and stern of glance. And he was called : Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I grieve.... Eowyn: Very fair was her face, and her long hair was like a river of gold. I stumbled upon Elendil the Fair, Hirluin the Fair.. Imrahil the fair (who had dark hair and grey eyes), Elanor the Fair, Gilraen the Fair, Elfwine the Fair .... *mind boggles* LOL > For what that's worth... (personally, I still imagine him with a > shade of dark/"dirty blond" hair. Or at least a lighter brunette > hair than the rest of them.) Always dark raven hair for me. But I read him anyway. > Though maybe he got his epithet from a time he tried wearing one of > mommy's dresses outside as a young kid and everyone jokingly called > him "Celegorm the Fair" to tease him for the rest of his life... LOL! Rhapsody --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. --0-3230204-1174858526=:18136 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Heh, yeah--I don't normally associate "fair" with "blond" myself, actually, if only because people often say I'm fair (as in "pasty-skinned," not "notably beautiful" or "light haired"). And I was pretty surprised that Tolkien ever had Celegorm be explicitly blond, even if he abandoned the idea... if I'd never come across fanfic or that passage, I'd probably have imagined him as dark-haired and pasty-skinned.

But I'll admit the "Celegorm is a blond" bias for me is probably because someone somewhere wrote a blond Celegorm that somehow reminded me of my brother for some reason, and my brother happens to have blond hair (as well as a red-haired mother and a dark-haired father and a red-haired oldest sibling). ;) Funny what can influence a mental picture! 

-Pulsarkat

rhapsody_the_bard wrote:
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Niki S."
...> wrote:

You guys *had* to start this didn't ya?

> Here's a footnote from The Lost Road and Other Tales about
> Celegorm's hair:
>
> Then Celegorm arose amid the throng (p. 169). In [Quenta ]
> Silmarillion] this is followed by 'golden was his long hair'. In the
> Lay at this point (line 1884) Celegorm has 'gleaming hair'; his Old
> English name was Cynegrim F�gerfeax ('Fair Hair'), IV. 213. The
> phrase was removed in The Silmarillion text on account of the dark
> hair of the Noldorin princes other than 'the golden house of
> Finarfin' (see I. 44); but he remains 'Celegorm the Fair' on p. 60.

Also I want to add this:
In Tolkien's earlier mythology, Elves were predominantly blond, and
only the Noldor were dark haired. Christopher Tolkien wrote, "I
pointed out that the words "'They were tall, fair of skin and
grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of
Finrod [Finarfin]' were originally written of the Noldor only, and not
of all the Eldar�" (HoME XII, The Appendix on Languages, p. 77).

"They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were
dark, save in the golden house of Finarfin; and their voices had more
melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard." (LOTR, Appendix F)

Copying this from a recent comment (the whole question was about if
there was a phrase of Frodo the Fair in LoTR (which it wasn't):

My Thesaurus says:
a fair (noun) is a traveling show or carnival or a gathering of
producers to promote business - fair (adjective) means free from
favoritism or self-interest or bias or deception, or very pleasing to
the eye, or not excessive or extreme; fare (noun) is the sum charged
for transportation, or the food and drink that are regularly consumed
- fare (verb) to get along or proceed

For example, Fair does not always equal blonde in Tolkien's work.
Luthien was called fair and yet she had dark hair ;)

From LOTR:

Tin�viel the elven-fair,
Immortal maiden elven-wise,
About him cast her shadowy hair
And arms like silver glimmering.

Finwe (and many of his house) were named fair and yet he had dark hair..

Look at how he describes Glorfindel:

Glorfindel was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his
face fair and young and fearless and full of joy; his eyes were bright
and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his
hand was strength.

It always strikes me as special that when people are blonde, the
professor does mention that explicitely: Thranduil, Idril, Glorfindel,
Indis.

The following people have been called The Fair in LOTR:

Arwen:
In the middle of the table, against the woven cloths upon the wall,
there was a chair under a canopy, and there sat a lady fair to look
upon, and so like was she in form of womanhood to Elrond that Frodo
guessed that she was one of his close kindred. Young she was and yet
not so. The braids of her dark hair were touched by no frost, her
white arms and clear face were flawless and smooth, and the light of
stars was in her bright eyes, grey as a cloudless night; yet queenly
she looked, and thought and knowledge were in her glance, as of one
who has known many things that the years bring.

Boromir:
And seated a little apart was a tall man with a fair and noble face,
dark-haired and grey-eyed, proud and stern of glance.

And he was called : Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I
grieve....

Eowyn: Very fair was her face, and her long hair was like a river of gold.

I stumbled upon Elendil the Fair, Hirluin the Fair.. Imrahil the fair
(who had dark hair and grey eyes), Elanor the Fair, Gilraen the Fair,
Elfwine the Fair

....

*mind boggles* LOL

> For what that's worth... (personally, I still imagine him with a
> shade of dark/"dirty blond" hair. Or at least a lighter brunette
> hair than the rest of them.)

Always dark raven hair for me. But I read him anyway.

> Though maybe he got his epithet from a time he tried wearing one of
> mommy's dresses outside as a young kid and everyone jokingly called
> him "Celegorm the Fair" to tease him for the rest of his life...

LOL!

Rhapsody


Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. --0-3230204-1174858526=:18136-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 837 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33262 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 03:44:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 03:44:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.212) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 03:44:25 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n32.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 03:44:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 03:44:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 03:44:03 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 03:44:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <337325.18136.qm@web58307.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: Celegorm's Hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=H_nvFVw_m_uPXsJtFUt1xA4X9q3-kt7Tw2V690cEk16n-Fy8OHBfYQ X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser Tolkien actually comments on the meaning of the word "fair" in English in= his essay "Quendi and Eldar," oddly enough! When speaking of the Vanyar:= "The name referred to the hair of the Minyar, which was in nearly all mem= bers of the clan yellow or deep golden. This was regarded as a beautiful = feature by the Noldor (who loved gold), though they were themselves mostly= dark-haired. Owing to intermarriage the golden hair of the Vanyar someti= mes later appeared among the Noldor: notably in the case of Finarfin, and = in his children Finrod and Galadriel, in whom it came from King Finw=EB's = second wife, Indis of the Vanyar. *Vanyar* thus comes from an adjectival d= erivative *wanj=E3 from the stem *WAN. Its primary sense seems to have be= en very similar to English (modern) use of 'fair' with reference to hair a= nd complexion; though its actual development was the reverse of English: = it meant 'pale, light-coloured, not brown or dark', and its implication of= beauty was secondary. In English the meaning 'beautiful' is primary. Fr= om the same stem was derived the name given in Quenya to the Valie Vana wi= fe of Orome." So 'fair' means beautiful in Middle Earth, just as it does i= n English....but it came from a word meaning 'blond' :P Of course Tolkien= was not aware of genes or chromosomes, so not genetics, but heredity is s= omething people knew about (or thought they knew about!) long before moder= n times. We cannot use genetics to 'prove' Nerdanel's hair color either w= ay, because chance is just that - chance. Chances are 50/50 you will have= a son or a daughter, usually, and yet she had 7 sons and no daughters. T= he chances of that happening are 1/128, and yet it did. Personally, I do = not mind either way. If someone really wanted to make Nerdanel dark-haire= d, they could defend it, and that would be fine. Same goes for Celegorm -= he can have any color hair, really, so long as he is fair=3Dbeautiful and= as proud as Tolkien made him! ~ MithLuin --- In SilmarillionWritersG= uild@yahoogroups.com, "Niki S." wrote: > > Heh, yeah--I d= on't normally associate "fair" with "blond" myself, actually, if only beca= use people often say I'm fair (as in "pasty- skinned," not "notably beautif= ul" or "light haired"). And I was pretty surprised that Tolkien ever had C= elegorm be explicitly blond, even if he abandoned the idea... if I'd never= come across fanfic or that passage, I'd probably have imagined him as dar= k-haired and pasty-skinned. > > But I'll admit the "Celegorm is a blond"= bias for me is probably because someone somewhere wrote a blond Celegorm = that somehow reminded me of my brother for some reason, and my brother hap= pens to have blond hair (as well as a red-haired mother and a dark-haired = father and a red-haired oldest sibling). ;) Funny what can influence a me= ntal picture! > > -Pulsarkat > > rhapsody_the_bard w= rote: --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yah= oogroups.com, "Niki S." > wrote: > > You guys *had* to st= art this didn't ya? > > > Here's a footnote from The Lost Road and Other= Tales about > > Celegorm's hair: > > > > Then Celegorm arose amid the= throng (p. 169). In [Quenta ] > > Silmarillion] this is followed by 'gold= en was his long hair'. In the > > Lay at this point (line 1884) Celegorm = has 'gleaming hair'; his Old > > English name was Cynegrim F=E6gerfeax (= 'Fair Hair'), IV. 213. The > > phrase was removed in The Silmarillion tex= t on account of the dark > > hair of the Noldorin princes other than 'th= e golden house of > > Finarfin' (see I. 44); but he remains 'Celegorm the= Fair' on p. 60. > > Also I want to add this: > In Tolkien's earlier = mythology, Elves were predominantly blond, and > only the Noldor were dar= k haired. Christopher Tolkien wrote, "I > pointed out that the words "'The= y were tall, fair of skin and > grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, s= ave in the golden house of > Finrod [Finarfin]' were originally written o= f the Noldor only, and not > of all the Eldar=85" (HoME XII, The Appendix= on Languages, p. 77). > > "They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, = though their locks were > dark, save in the golden house of Finarfin; and= their voices had more > melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard= ." (LOTR, Appendix F) > > Copying this from a recent comment (the whole= question was about if > there was a phrase of Frodo the Fair in LoTR (wh= ich it wasn't): > > My Thesaurus says: > a fair (noun) is a traveling s= how or carnival or a gathering of > producers to promote business - fair (= adjective) means free from > favoritism or self-interest or bias or decept= ion, or very pleasing to > the eye, or not excessive or extreme; fare (no= un) is the sum charged > for transportation, or the food and drink that a= re regularly consumed > - fare (verb) to get along or proceed > > For = example, Fair does not always equal blonde in Tolkien's work. > Luthien wa= s called fair and yet she had dark hair ;) > > From LOTR: > > Tin=FAv= iel the elven-fair, > Immortal maiden elven-wise, > About him cast her sh= adowy hair > And arms like silver glimmering. > > Finwe (and many of hi= s house) were named fair and yet he had dark hair.. > > Look at how he= describes Glorfindel: > > Glorfindel was tall and straight; his hair wa= s of shining gold, his > face fair and young and fearless and full of joy= ; his eyes were bright > and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow = sat wisdom, and in his > hand was strength. > > It always strikes me a= s special that when people are blonde, the > professor does mention that e= xplicitely: Thranduil, Idril, Glorfindel, > Indis. > > The following p= eople have been called The Fair in LOTR: > > Arwen: > In the middle of = the table, against the woven cloths upon the wall, > there was a chair un= der a canopy, and there sat a lady fair to look > upon, and so like was s= he in form of womanhood to Elrond that Frodo > guessed that she was one o= f his close kindred. Young she was and yet > not so. The braids of her da= rk hair were touched by no frost, her > white arms and clear face were fla= wless and smooth, and the light of > stars was in her bright eyes, grey a= s a cloudless night; yet queenly > she looked, and thought and knowledge = were in her glance, as of one > who has known many things that the years = bring. > > Boromir: > And seated a little apart was a tall man with a f= air and noble face, > dark-haired and grey-eyed, proud and stern of glanc= e. > > And he was called : Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and= I > grieve.... > > Eowyn: Very fair was her face, and her long hair w= as like a river of gold. > > I stumbled upon Elendil the Fair, Hirluin = the Fair.. Imrahil the fair > (who had dark hair and grey eyes), Elanor t= he Fair, Gilraen the Fair, > Elfwine the Fair > > .... > > *mind bo= ggles* LOL > > > For what that's worth... (personally, I still imagine = him with a > > shade of dark/"dirty blond" hair. Or at least a lighter = brunette > > hair than the rest of them.) > > Always dark raven hair = for me. But I read him anyway. > > > Though maybe he got his epithet fr= om a time he tried wearing one of > > mommy's dresses outside as a young= kid and everyone jokingly called > > him "Celegorm the Fair" to tease h= im for the rest of his life... > > LOL! > > Rhapsody > > > = > > > > --------------------------------- > Find= ing fabulous fares is fun. > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite trav= el sites to find flight and hotel bargains. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 838 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64782 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 10:12:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 10:12:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 10:12:35 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB5058023 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:12:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:12:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:12:04 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <14610103109.20070326121204@tlen.pl> To: Tarion Anarore In-Reply-To: <467861.31918.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <467861.31918.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=_Tc48VCRlOIVVYXNbqfXBQzzTRcWUYFfVhGWTFOt8MGcmDRQp4U X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle To add one more voice in genetics, not a new essay so you might no it by no= w - "The Eldar Hair Color Genome Or Hair Color Genetics for Tolkien=92s Elv= es" By Laura Luchau: http://www.anorahithil.net/essays/essay05.htm And ab= out Celegorm the fair - can I link to the Silmarillion LJ group? Maybe ther= e is something new, maybe less than you already said, browse comments: htt= p://community.livejournal.com/silmarillion/84059.html It would be great i= f we had a message board somewhere. E-mail group is nice but we might be re= peating the same subjects all over again with time, while having a discussi= on on board would let anyone to view it whenever they want and add new idea= s to it or just read what others say if the subject is complete. It is poss= ible to view old discussions in group, but less comfortable. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 839 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86945 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 10:33:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 10:33:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tur.go2.pl) (193.17.41.50) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 10:33:58 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2.go2.pl [193.17.41.42]) by tur.go2.pl (o2.pl Mailer 2.0.1) with ESMTP id 3E62A23022D for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:33:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F81974809E for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:31:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:31:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:31:33 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <502798584.20070326123133@tlen.pl> To: Tarion Anarore In-Reply-To: <467861.31918.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <467861.31918.qm@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: And a diagram on elven hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=2CWST9Bz6CKKyCuIe7OueUk3fd1I2SmWBhbo8fd4IZloHVUUdmk X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle One more thing elf hair related - a diagram made by Kielle (RedPanda), check it out (in LJ entry): http://users.livejournal.com/_redpanda_/344620.html Unfortunately Kielle can't answer any questions anymore :( But her diagram might be always helpful to authors and artists. The only question here is if Eol's hair are mentioned anywhere? I would swear his hair were black, as Nerdanel's red, but I as in Nerdanel's case I've been searching for quotations and never found any. I've met black, silver and white haired Eol in fan stories. What you think about that? And about the fanon white haired Lindir? Olwe was white haired (which I interpret as platinum blond, very pale and bright), so why not any other Telerin ancestor? And adding to my previous post about a message board - we discuss things at SWG LJ group (hijacking threads often ;) ), not all people belong to both groups so some discussions are gone unnoticed and they are all gone with time as on the e-mail list. It would really be great to save them all in one place to browse later. Message boards do have search engines to browse for certain subjects etc. which is quite hard on Yahoo group or LJ. As someone noticed discussions here go smooth, without accusation, immature posts and trolls as it happens on boards. I hope if we had our board, accessible to read for everyone and to post for SWG members only, the discussions would be still nice while they would be easily accessible at any time. Some themes accessible only for SWG members for a better comfort of discussion, as here. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 840 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46916 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 12:23:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 12:23:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.113) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 12:23:32 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:23:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:23:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:23:31 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:23:29 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <502798584.20070326123133@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: And a diagram on elven hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=7WgX93hhFbu5h_pc4wmOidDY_L6dighUOIxKC4V9JMCJ4iu7hATmJhM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle wr= ote: > > One more thing elf hair related - a diagram made by Kielle > (Red= Panda), > check it out (in LJ entry): > > http://users.livejournal.com/_re= dpanda_/344620.html > > Unfortunately Kielle can't answer any questions an= ymore :( But her > diagram might be always helpful to authors and artists. = Here is another page for you: http://www.lcwsites.org/~lisa/colors.html H= ey, I was just wondering, you being an artist and all, you could write an e= ssay about it. > The only question here is if Eol's hair are mentioned any= where? I > would swear his hair were black, as Nerdanel's red, but I as in = > Nerdanel's case I've been searching for quotations and never found > any.= I've met black, silver and white haired Eol in fan stories. > What you th= ink about that? Here is a citation from the Silm and how a Gondoldhrim gua= rd describes him: "'Lord,' he cried, 'the Guard have taken captive one tha= t came by stealth to the Dark Gate. E=F6l he names himself, and he is a tal= l Elf, dark and grim, of the kindred of the Sindar; yet he claims the Lady = Aredhel as his wife, and demands to be brought before you. His wrath is gre= at and he is hard to restrain; but we have not slain him as your law comman= ds.'" I haven't gone through HOME, but Marina is the Maeglin expert I know= , so I think she'd know more. I did do a character study of Maeglin a few m= onths back, but I didn't concentrate on E=F6l. > And about the fanon white= haired Lindir? Olwe was white haired > (which I interpret as platinum blo= nd, very pale and bright), so why > not any other Telerin ancestor? Euh..= . Lindir is a LOTR character, this is what Tolkien wrote: "The chanting ce= ased. Frodo opened his eyes and saw that Bilbo was seated on his stool in a= circle of listeners, who were smiling and applauding. `Now we had better h= ave it again,' said an Elf. Bilbo got up and bowed. `I am flattered, Lindir= ,' he said. 'But it would be too tiring to repeat it all.' 'Not too tiring = for you,' the Elves answered laughing. 'You know you are never tired of rec= iting your own verses. But really we cannot answer your question at one hea= ring!' `What!' cried Bilbo. 'You can't tell which parts were mine, and whic= h were the D=FAnadan's?' 'It is not easy for us to tell the difference betw= een two mortals' said the Elf. 'Nonsense, Lindir,' snorted Bilbo. 'If you c= an't distinguish between a Man and a Hobbit, your judgement is poorer than = I imagined. They're as different as peas and apples.' 'Maybe. To sheep othe= r sheep no doubt appear different,' laughed Lindir. `Or to shepherds. But M= ortals have not been our study. We have other business.'" No hair colour o= r ancestry mentioned. There might be something in HOME, I can check later t= oday. > And adding to my previous post about a message board - we discuss = > things at SWG LJ group (hijacking threads often ;) ), not all people > be= long to both groups so some discussions are gone unnoticed and > they are = all gone with time as on the e-mail list. It would really > be great to sav= e them all in one place to browse later. Message > boards do have search en= gines to browse for certain subjects etc. > which is quite hard on Yahoo g= roup or LJ. It would be nice to have all in one. I agree. > As someone n= oticed discussions here go smooth, without accusation, > immature posts and= trolls as it happens on boards. I hope if we had > our board, accessible = to read for everyone and to post for SWG > members only, the discussions w= ould be still nice while they would > be easily accessible at any time. So= me themes accessible only for > SWG members for a better comfort of discus= sion, as here. There is certain forum software that can run on the new dom= ain, but it's up to Dawn if she wants it. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 841 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64671 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 12:25:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 12:25:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 12:25:04 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F7C3628098 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:24:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:24:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:24:43 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <623665946.20070326142443@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Aragorn bunny X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=hh4n8zxgVddg0QVOMpTrFVKObpPahZEMenRGaLTAbHWOq0P2IQ8 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Rhapsody, > Thanks to Sirielle I have this really weird Argon bunny ;) Aragorn bunny from me? Impossible, you must have misheard something, I was talking of Maedhros bunny. M-a-e-d-h-r-o-s! ;))) Bunnies overdose can be always given away at Tolkien bunnies lj group ;) Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 842 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55180 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 12:34:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 12:34:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.167) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 12:34:55 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:34:45 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:34:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:34:45 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:34:44 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <14610103109.20070326121204@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=vC0iuR4ZZqyr5HhIVyS3ZE0kN-u1_3pKSSrq0MrsDZ1yT94HfT406QM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle wr= ote: > > To add one more voice in genetics, not a new essay so you might no= > it by now - "The Eldar Hair Color Genome Or Hair Color Genetics for > T= olkien's Elves" By Laura Luchau: > > http://www.anorahithil.net/essays/ess= ay05.htm Ooooo I read this (in that essay): "Red hair has very rarely bee= n mentioned, and when it has, it has been in supplementary materials provid= ed by Tolkien's successor, Christopher Tolkien. However, what little we kn= ow about the red genome might help us understand its tendencies. As far as= we know, the only Elves mentioned specifically with red hair are the sons = of F=EBanor and Nerdanel: Maedhros, Amrod and Amros. Their brother Caranthi= r is another candidate, because "caran" in Tolkien's Elvish means "red." N= erdanel is said to have "auburn" hair (ie. red and brown)." Auburn??? But = uh... Do we have a Nerdanel specialist in the house? > And about Celegorm = the fair - can I link to the Silmarillion LJ > group? > Maybe there is som= ething new, maybe less than you already said, > browse comments: > > http:= //community.livejournal.com/silmarillion/84059.html Yes, but as you mentio= n yourself in one of these threads, if fair does not mean blonde, than blon= de means how Tolkien used the title The Fair to those dark haired ones: ple= asing and beautiful to look upon. And oh yeah, I completely agree with that= . Last night I was wondering that Fair also means honest and frank, which i= s just another intriguing segment of Celegorm's character (in my stories he= 's blunt, apt to respond but honest). The thing is, I hardly pay attention = to hair colour in my writings, but for you as an artist I can understand wh= y you want to know. The first time I stumbled upon Celegorm being blonde wa= s in AMC, for the rest I know more Silm author's in the Silm fic part of th= e fandom who are in the dark-raven camp. So yeah, that is why I do know tha= t there is no big Celegorm is a blonde elf-group within the whole fandom. B= ut then again, how many fan fic is there of the elf (although I am working = hard on that to change it)? Rhapsody (who's always distracted by other thi= ngs than the hair colour) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 843 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82840 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 12:37:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 12:37:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.225) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 12:37:20 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:37:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:37:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:37:20 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:37:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <623665946.20070326142443@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Aragorn bunny X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=ebFQ_WCoqq349QWaf4aIDiqQ9_QNQGaYSVl_cjz7ieMYJ_gst7GL58Q X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle wr= ote: > > Thanks to Sirielle I have this really weird Argon bunny ;) > = > Aragorn bunny from me? Impossible, you must have misheard something, I > = was talking of Maedhros bunny. M-a-e-d-h-r-o-s! ;))) Argon!!! Rememeber th= e son of Fingolfin who died on Lammoth, or at Alqualonde or on the Helcarax= e? ;) You started to talk about him LOL > Bunnies overdose can be always = given away at Tolkien bunnies lj group > ;) Don't tell me there is one... = Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 844 Return-Path: X-Sender: allie.meril@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69955 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 12:47:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 12:47:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.241) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 12:47:16 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n26.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:47:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:47:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 12:47:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:47:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5-6035259512-8317058117=:0" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Allie Meril" Subject: SSP: a short Yavanna ficlet X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=242103880; y=hNqfmcr86Z5YifYschk0GPtLQTpTFja6-REHoH72ksafjk4bSXU X-Yahoo-Profile: meril_rose --5-6035259512-8317058117=:0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I wrote a short (<600 words) ficlet based on the LJ comm there_n_b= ack prompt, "Y - like a yawning Yavanna." It's here, at my Livejournal: h= ttp://allie-meril.livejournal.com/119460.html Freestyle poetry, featuring Valar with human-like pers= onalities as opposed to distant deities. Thanks! Allie --5-6035259512-8317058117=:0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,

I wrote a short (<600 words) ficlet based on the LJ comm= there_n_back prompt, "Y - like a yawning Yavanna." 

It's here= , at my Livejournal:  http://allie-meril.livejournal.com/119460.html

Freest= yle poetry, featuring Valar with human-like personalities as opposed to dis= tant deities. 

Thanks! 
Allie
--5-6035259512-8317058117=:0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 845 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47053 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 12:51:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 12:51:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 12:51:46 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CE0A74808E for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:51:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:51:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:51:38 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <457016397.20070326145138@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <502798584.20070326123133@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: And a diagram on elven hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=NC60Gp6MtuoqoXM6xTZEB397kEt0dLztn43Xv7H1rgWHaDqGtkY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle > Here is another page for you: > http://www.lcwsites.org/~lisa/colors.ht= ml I forgot to add there are some mistakes in the diagram - at least in ca= se of Olwe who is silver haired there. Of course unless white hair mean sil= ver for you ;) > Hey, I was just wondering, you being an artist and all,= you could > write an essay about it. I was thinking of it being just a "= short-cut" for authors and artists, but I don't have all necessary quotatio= ns, yet. And as we all see some so obvious things appear to be almost fanon= s ;) > Here is a citation from the Silm and how a Gondoldhrim guard desc= ribes > him: > "E=F6l he names himself, and he is a tall Elf, dark and = grim, of the kindred of the Sindar;" And this must be the sentence which I= red "dark haired". > Euh... Lindir is a LOTR character, this is what To= lkien wrote: I know and as far as I remember from other discussions there = are no descriptions of his look anywhere, but - this may be fanon - he come= s from Mirkwood and is Silvan elf. I never remembered such character exist = till I saw him in fan art/fiction, so no wander I don't know anything about= him. And I'm not LotR specialist at all, almost never remember to search f= or quotes there which is a mistake. > There is certain forum software th= at can run on the new domain, but > it's up to Dawn if she wants it. phpB= B is easy and allows all the settings, but is less stable and safe as Invas= ion board, which for a change I don't like (and don't know from admin side)= . These are two free and most common message boards I know. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 846 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57937 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 13:16:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 13:16:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.246) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 13:16:02 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n28.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 13:15:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 13:15:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 13:15:11 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:15:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <457016397.20070326145138@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: And a diagram on elven hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=kKD_3A5DPav9PyQq9VjiL6RVbcJByMqf3BiRML34uo5Bpkr0yMx7_bw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle wr= ote: > > > Here is another page for you: > > http://www.lcwsites.org/~lis= a/colors.html > > I forgot to add there are some mistakes in the diagram -= at least in > case of Olwe who is silver haired there. Of course unless wh= ite hair > mean silver for you ;) I don't know, I got the link from Isil, = so I am just sharing it :) > > Hey, I was just wondering, you being an = artist and all, you could > > write an essay about it. > > I was thinking= of it being just a "short-cut" for authors and > artists, but I don't hav= e all necessary quotations, yet. And as we > all see some so obvious thing= s appear to be almost fanons ;) Yeah, I know. >> Here is a citation from = the Silm and how a Gondoldhrim guard >> describes him: > >> "E=F6l he n= ames himself, and he is a tall Elf, dark and grim, of >> the kindred of th= e Sindar;" > >And this must be the sentence which I red "dark haired". We= ll that isn't so strange you know, the Sindar go down overall as dark haire= d (by the prof) and the fact that dark and grim, I'd say that that guard de= scribes him as dark-haired. > > Euh... Lindir is a LOTR character, this= is what Tolkien wrote: > > I know and as far as I remember from other dis= cussions there are no > descriptions of his look anywhere, but - this may b= e fanon - he > comes from Mirkwood and is Silvan elf. I never remembered s= uch > character exist till I saw him in fan art/fiction, so no wander I >= don't know anything about him. And I'm not LotR specialist at all, > almo= st never remember to search for quotes there which is a mistake. I'll look= into it, shall I e-mail you privately since it is a LOTR character? As far= as I know, what you say above is fanon, because Lindir appears to be in th= at citation more like an elf of Rivendell. For all we know he could be blon= de too ;) >> There is certain forum software that can run on the new domai= n, >> but it's up to Dawn if she wants it. > > phpBB is easy and allows a= ll the settings, but is less stable and > safe as Invasion board, which fo= r a change I don't like (and don't > know from admin side). These are two = free and most common message > boards I know. I am an site admin of three= PhpBB boards, one is woefully behind in upgrading and I am waiting for the= version 3 which should have a better protection against spammers... It isn= 't perfect and full of security leaks, but it's nice. :) Especially on the = admin side. To have that, the site must allow sql as well.. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 847 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7073 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 13:28:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 13:28:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 13:28:02 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6028A74806E for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:26:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:26:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:26:51 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <734967141.20070326152651@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <623665946.20070326142443@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Aragorn bunny X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ILNH1zTKG6p_nLqZtkDJdXvuWYJHUXq5CvxZbiuDnmGYsOIHh1E X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle > Argon!!! Rememeber the son of Fingolfin who died on Lammoth, or at > Alqualonde or on the Helcaraxe? ;) You started to talk about him LOL Argon, right. IMHO the youngest son of Fingolfin, that's the option from HoME I choose ;) >> Bunnies overdose can be always given away at Tolkien bunnies lj group >> ;) > Don't tell me there is one... Here you are: http://community.livejournal.com/tolkienbunnies/profile Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 848 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91835 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 13:29:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 13:29:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 13:29:27 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6008628055 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:17:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:17:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:17:46 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1568742541.20070326151746@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <14610103109.20070326121204@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=vhvduqHZGHLYPzaVTR0R4l4VKwisD9KZ4wrv5qAtoe7yw4QlQz8 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle > Ooooo I read this (in that essay): > "Their brother Caranthir is another candidate, because "caran" in Tolkien's Elvish > means "red." Nerdanel is said to have "auburn" hair (ie. red and brown)." > Auburn??? But uh... Do we have a Nerdanel specialist in the house? Ha, interesting, isn't it? Where is the Nerdanel's hair quote... I bet it's a conclusion from her son's hair quotations, unless there is any other forgotten paragraph. Maybe something published in The Shibboleth of Feanor appendix which appeared only in Vinyar Tengwar- includes IMHO important information on elves life stages and Mahtan's beard. Around Mahtan's description might be something on his daughter's hair. Does anyone here own the Vinyar Tengwar issue with this appendix? Maedhros is describes as copper or auburn haired, too. I use red hair which simply cover all, as Dawn said. "5) [Caranthir] Morifinwe 'dark' - he was black-haired as his grandfather. (Moryo) Carnistir 'red-face' - he was dark (brown) haired, but had the ruddy complexion of his mother." [HoME XII] Caranthir is also black haired in his father's name (now Rhapsody has got deja vu from SWG's LJ) and now we can argue who was better in naming colors - Nerdanel or Feanor? Since he was working with jewels and light and she was more focused on sculptures I bet Feanaro was the better one. Unless she painted her sculptures. Hmm. But whatever I prefer the raven haired Caranthir (and Curufin) over any dark brown variation. Let's open another can of worms ;) Freckles or not? IMHO elves =no mutations = no freckles, which would bring another difference between Eldar and Men. > Yes, but as you mention yourself in one of these threads, if fair does > not mean blonde, than blonde means how Tolkien used the title The Fair > to those dark haired ones: pleasing and beautiful to look upon. I was rather thinking of the HoME quotation given there, which I think Niki provided here, too, not the meaning of the word "fair" "In the Lay at this point (line 1844) Celegorm has 'gleaming hair'; his Old English name was Cynegrim Fogerfeax ('Fair-hair'), IV. 213." http://community.livejournal.com/silmarillion/84059.html?thread=432731#t432731 > The first time I stumbled upon Celegorm being blonde > was in AMC, for the rest I know more Silm author's in the Silm fic > part of the fandom who are in the dark-raven camp. So yeah, that is > why I do know that there is no big Celegorm is a blonde elf-group > within the whole fandom. But then again, how many fan fic is there of > the elf (although I am working hard on that to change it)? Then we read different fan fics, for your Celegorm is the only dark haired one I know :D And mine is from blond to "golden-brown" on my whim ;) Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 849 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36648 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 13:45:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 13:45:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 13:45:26 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1AB658057 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:34:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:34:38 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:34:42 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <876940204.20070326153442@tlen.pl> To: rhapsody_the_bard In-Reply-To: References: <457016397.20070326145138@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: And a diagram on elven hair X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=pGdj9RjpC-L_KM48sOtdOVezHLdOmpmbJEI1CpnzhEoRZWjqqTc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle >> >> > Here is another page for you: >> > http://www.lcwsites.org/~lisa/colors.html >> >> I forgot to add there are some mistakes in the diagram - at least in >> case of Olwe who is silver haired there. Of course unless white hair >> mean silver for you ;) > I don't know, I got the link from Isil, so I am just sharing it :) Ahhh, sorry, I thought I quoted a part with my link to Kielle's diagram, not Lisa's (haven't checked that one, yet). I'm too hasty with pressing "send" button again O_o > I'll look into it, shall I e-mail you privately since it is a LOTR > character? As far as I know, what you say above is fanon, because > Lindir appears to be in that citation more like an elf of Rivendell. > For all we know he could be blonde too ;) It's LotR chara, but an elf, who knows when he was born... Someone might write a fic about Lindir singing about the starts mirrored in Cuivienen waters seating on it's bank ;) But do as you wish :) > I am an site admin of three PhpBB boards, one is woefully behind in > upgrading and I am waiting for the version 3 which should have a > better protection against spammers... It isn't perfect and full of > security leaks, but it's nice. :) Especially on the admin side. To > have that, the site must allow sql as well.. I had one on my site, but I stopped upgrading it, though patched some dangerous security holes. It wasn't spammers problem here but idiots hacking server through phpBB holes. Since it was free server space I got from my friend he asked me to delete boards because he was tired of the hacking. If SWG server is better secured, then I wouldn't worry - having the latest version and patched holes should work. That server wasn't well secured. And I agree it's very admin friendly, also user friendly and there are a lot of custom modules for that, too. My fav borad script :) Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 850 Return-Path: X-Sender: sinneahtes@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4092 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 15:05:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 15:05:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web58313.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.166) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 15:05:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 65942 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2007 15:05:10 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Dk40YV4VM1mA919DJKsBEWPJ.tswe0SlU5jxpCaatl2D71PLdLiS_aYXM83HSc5n9pA.EpVZTnsFZ5g4vYmY8Wy3XWesjSYi9keDXK46_XkkCUGIRrzoYw-- Received: from [71.235.106.34] by web58313.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 08:05:10 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 08:05:10 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1568742541.20070326151746@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-149041701-1174921510=:64667" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <101489.64667.qm@web58313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Niki S." Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=280830306; y=wEuY_aPVi0a3bNBzJYjZYbcvnbqVybZ6rGR-CVlxZub2wHv-OA X-Yahoo-Profile: sinneahtes --0-149041701-1174921510=:64667 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Let's open another can of worms ;) Freckles or not? IMHO elves =no >mutations = no freckles, which would bring another difference between >Eldar and Men. Are freckles really any more of a mutation than red hair (or any hair color) or ruddy complexions would be, though? Perhaps some of the first Elves to awaken by Lake Cu--Cuiven-- (argh, can't spell today) Lake Whatchamacallit could have been created with freckles... I kind of think it'd be cute if some Elves could have freckles, especially as young children. :) Though I could well buy the idea that if Elves had freckles, they'd be less common and/or less noticeable than human freckles. Or else simply left out of physical descriptions--is there anything said about how Elves look at skin as far as beauty goes? (Though one could also imagine that Elves don't have or use melanin in their bodies for pigmentation, if their bodies don't need it for sun protection...) --Pulsarkat sirielle wrote: > Ooooo I read this (in that essay): > "Their brother Caranthir is another candidate, because "caran" in Tolkien's Elvish > means "red." Nerdanel is said to have "auburn" hair (ie. red and brown)." > Auburn??? But uh... Do we have a Nerdanel specialist in the house? Ha, interesting, isn't it? Where is the Nerdanel's hair quote... I bet it's a conclusion from her son's hair quotations, unless there is any other forgotten paragraph. Maybe something published in The Shibboleth of Feanor appendix which appeared only in Vinyar Tengwar- includes IMHO important information on elves life stages and Mahtan's beard. Around Mahtan's description might be something on his daughter's hair. Does anyone here own the Vinyar Tengwar issue with this appendix? Maedhros is describes as copper or auburn haired, too. I use red hair which simply cover all, as Dawn said. "5) [Caranthir] Morifinwe 'dark' - he was black-haired as his grandfather. (Moryo) Carnistir 'red-face' - he was dark (brown) haired, but had the ruddy complexion of his mother." [HoME XII] Caranthir is also black haired in his father's name (now Rhapsody has got deja vu from SWG's LJ) and now we can argue who was better in naming colors - Nerdanel or Feanor? Since he was working with jewels and light and she was more focused on sculptures I bet Feanaro was the better one. Unless she painted her sculptures. Hmm. But whatever I prefer the raven haired Caranthir (and Curufin) over any dark brown variation. Let's open another can of worms ;) Freckles or not? IMHO elves =no mutations = no freckles, which would bring another difference between Eldar and Men. > Yes, but as you mention yourself in one of these threads, if fair does > not mean blonde, than blonde means how Tolkien used the title The Fair > to those dark haired ones: pleasing and beautiful to look upon. I was rather thinking of the HoME quotation given there, which I think Niki provided here, too, not the meaning of the word "fair" "In the Lay at this point (line 1844) Celegorm has 'gleaming hair'; his Old English name was Cynegrim Fogerfeax ('Fair-hair'), IV. 213." http://community.livejournal.com/silmarillion/84059.html?thread=432731#t432731 > The first time I stumbled upon Celegorm being blonde > was in AMC, for the rest I know more Silm author's in the Silm fic > part of the fandom who are in the dark-raven camp. So yeah, that is > why I do know that there is no big Celegorm is a blonde elf-group > within the whole fandom. But then again, how many fan fic is there of > the elf (although I am working hard on that to change it)? Then we read different fan fics, for your Celegorm is the only dark haired one I know :D And mine is from blond to "golden-brown" on my whim ;) Sirielle --------------------------------- The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. --0-149041701-1174921510=:64667 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Let's open another can of worms ;) Freckles or not? IMHO elves =no
>mutations = no freckles, which would bring another difference between
>Eldar and Men.

Are freckles really any more of a mutation than red hair (or any hair color) or ruddy complexions would be, though? Perhaps some of the first Elves to awaken by Lake Cu--Cuiven-- (argh, can't spell today) Lake Whatchamacallit could have been created with freckles...

I kind of think it'd be cute if some Elves could have freckles, especially as young children. :) Though I could well buy the idea that if Elves had freckles, they'd be less common and/or less noticeable than human freckles. Or else simply left out of physical descriptions--is there anything said about how Elves look at skin as far as beauty goes? (Though one could also imagine that Elves don't have or use melanin in their bodies for pigmentation, if their bodies don't need it for sun protection...)  

--Pulsarkat

sirielle wrote:
> Ooooo I read this (in that essay):

> "Their brother Caranthir is another candidate, because "caran" in Tolkien's Elvish
> means "red." Nerdanel is said to have "auburn" hair (ie. red and brown)."

> Auburn??? But uh... Do we have a Nerdanel specialist in the house?

Ha, interesting, isn't it? Where is the Nerdanel's hair quote... I bet
it's a conclusion from her son's hair quotations, unless there is any
other forgotten paragraph. Maybe something published in The Shibboleth
of Feanor appendix which appeared only in Vinyar Tengwar- includes
IMHO important information on elves life stages and Mahtan's beard.
Around Mahtan's description might be something on his daughter's hair.

Does anyone here own the Vinyar Tengwar issue with this appendix?

Maedhros is describes as copper or auburn haired, too. I use red hair which
simply cover all, as Dawn said.

"5) [Caranthir] Morifinwe 'dark' - he was black-haired as
his grandfather. (Moryo)

Carnistir 'red-face' - he was dark (brown) haired, but had
the ruddy complexion of his mother." [HoME XII]

Caranthir is also black haired in his father's name (now Rhapsody has
got deja vu from SWG's LJ) and now we can argue who was better in naming colors - Nerdanel
or Feanor? Since he was working with jewels and light and she was more
focused on sculptures I bet Feanaro was the better one. Unless she
painted her sculptures. Hmm. But whatever I prefer the raven haired
Caranthir (and Curufin) over any dark brown variation.

Let's open another can of worms ;) Freckles or not? IMHO elves =no
mutations = no freckles, which would bring another difference between
Eldar and Men.

> Yes, but as you mention yourself in one of these threads, if fair does
> not mean blonde, than blonde means how Tolkien used the title The Fair
> to those dark haired ones: pleasing and beautiful to look upon.

I was rather thinking of the HoME quotation given there, which I think
Niki provided here, too, not the meaning of the word "fair"

"In the Lay at this point (line 1844) Celegorm has 'gleaming hair'; his Old English name was Cynegrim Fogerfeax ('Fair-hair'), IV. 213."

http://community.livejournal.com/silmarillion/84059.html?thread=432731#t432731

> The first time I stumbled upon Celegorm being blonde
> was in AMC, for the rest I know more Silm author's in the Silm fic
> part of the fandom who are in the dark-raven camp. So yeah, that is
> why I do know that there is no big Celegorm is a blonde elf-group
> within the whole fandom. But then again, how many fan fic is there of
> the elf (although I am working hard on that to change it)?

Then we read different fan fics, for your Celegorm is the only dark
haired one I know :D And mine is from blond to "golden-brown" on my
whim ;)

Sirielle


The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. --0-149041701-1174921510=:64667-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 851 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18096 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 15:13:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 15:13:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 15:13:02 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.c2c.d589034 (48600) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:12:57 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174921977" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=U1YBBaP5CBFxHjmtA-9M5345D-2F6xyyxIOBAwcaUKEzzDJmReGn X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174921977 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/2007 8:30:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: Freckles or not? IMHO elves =no mutations = no freckles, which would bring another difference between Eldar and Men. I agree with this one. Since my elves have very human emotions, I am always trying to find other ways to distinguish them from people. It noticed switching from LOTR to Silm fiction writing the difference became harder--in LOTR fiction making an elf alien is easier to do by contrast and remarks humans, for example, make. In Silm fiction, of course, they are never weird to one another. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174921977 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/26/2007 8:30:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl write= s:
Freckles or not? IMHO elves =3Dnomutations =3D no freckles, which would bring another difference between=
Eldar and Men.
I agree w= ith this one. Since my elves have very human emotions, I am always trying = to find other ways to distinguish them from people. It noticed switching f= rom LOTR to Silm fiction writing the difference became harder--in LOTR fict= ion making an elf alien is easier to do by contrast and remarks humans, fo= r example, make. In Silm fiction, of course, they are never weird to one = another.



AOL now offers = free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
-------------------------------1174921977-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 852 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67185 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 15:54:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 15:54:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 15:54:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 15:51:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 15:51:51 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:51:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1568742541.20070326151746@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=u8toPZn2AACJrWWZPRjYXz0gMLpreZ2_dIPMtBNBQj4i1eC-c4t9FM4 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sirielle wr= ote: > I was rather thinking of the HoME quotation given there, which I th= ink > Niki provided here, too, not the meaning of the word "fair" > > "In = the Lay at this point (line 1844) Celegorm has 'gleaming hair'; his Old Eng= lish name was Cynegrim Fogerfeax ('Fair-hair'), IV. 213." Any hair colour = can gleam. So I take this with a pinch of salt: red hair, black hair, silve= r hair... all can gleam so this is a bit pointless. Also Tolkien in HOME IV= you see all the sons come up with several other names and well *shrugs* R= hapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 853 Return-Path: X-Sender: deand12000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93912 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 16:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 16:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web56010.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (216.252.110.189) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 16:40:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 27056 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2007 16:40:04 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: atFqahkVM1k19LnlQTD0G2HMs6ZoHg9n9N6O13Ym3XGoZxN0ZWJ9uZf3BL5dZaflHq9ZnJAdR7f8LhIYp4_xBXrzAzw7.MiDZwB52KDVlgCen_5aik22IQ-- Received: from [165.83.104.199] by web56010.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:40:04 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/476 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.8 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:40:04 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-362244112-1174927204=:26538" Message-ID: <418913.26538.qm@web56010.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Dean Rowley Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Aragorn bunny X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=114134930; y=ZoDl_vWKZGddaP1Pv2FGcHKJmkltWlSxZpnowUFatR9z_E1mQw X-Yahoo-Profile: deand12000 --0-362244112-1174927204=:26538 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Why am I not surprized that the Legendarium can produce so manny Nuzguls that they need thier own home? Dean Maia of Este ----- Original Message ---- From: sirielle To: rhapsody_the_bard Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:26:51 AM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Aragorn bunny > Argon!!! Rememeber the son of Fingolfin who died on Lammoth, or at > Alqualonde or on the Helcaraxe? ;) You started to talk about him LOL Argon, right. IMHO the youngest son of Fingolfin, that's the option from HoME I choose ;) >> Bunnies overdose can be always given away at Tolkien bunnies lj group >> ;) > Don't tell me there is one... Here you are: http://community. livejournal. com/tolkienbunni es/profile Sirielle ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front --0-362244112-1174927204=:26538 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii
Why am I not surprized that the Legendarium can produce so manny Nuzguls that they need thier own home?
 
Dean Maia of Este

----- Original Message ----
From: sirielle
To: rhapsody_the_bard
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:26:51 AM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Aragorn bunny

> Argon!!! Rememeber the son of Fingolfin who died on Lammoth, or at
> Alqualonde or on the Helcaraxe? ;) You started to talk about him LOL

Argon, right. IMHO the youngest son of Fingolfin, that's the option
from HoME I choose ;)

>> Bunnies overdose can be always given away at Tolkien bunnies lj group
>> ;)

> Don't tell me there is one...

Here you are:

http://community. livejournal. com/tolkienbunni es/profile

Sirielle



8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. --0-362244112-1174927204=:26538-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 854 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44741 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 17:00:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 17:00:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 17:00:09 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 16:59:10 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 16:59:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 16:59:10 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:59:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=226986173; y=CNQJd1HN1EslJ5eRa4ScS7GGAc0ee0RLbG122_Co4OlW6wugE3aa X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, sir= ielle > wrote: > > > I was rather thinking of the HoME quotati= on given there, which I think > > Niki provided here, too, not the meaning= of the word "fair" > > > > "In the Lay at this point (line 1844) Celegorm= has 'gleaming hair'; > his Old English name was Cynegrim Fogerfeax ('Fair= -hair'), IV. 213." > > Any hair colour can gleam. So I take this with a p= inch of salt: red > hair, black hair, silver hair... all can gleam so this = is a bit > pointless. Also Tolkien in HOME IV you see all the sons come up = with > several other names and well *shrugs* The key for me here isn't th= e gleaming so much as the Old English translation to "fair-hair." In the c= ontext of hair, I've never seen fair used to mean anything but "light in c= olor," so this tells me that JRRT at one time thought that Celegorm would = be golden-haired in color. However, if memory serves correctly, this idea= was abandoned, and so I would never make the claim that this is definitiv= e proof that Celegorm is blond. It's a tidbit that I use in my own justifi= cation of writing his character in that way, but it's not enough to dismis= s the idea that he's dark-haired either, imo. On that note, I found it re= ally interesting that Rhapsody had never seen a blond Celegorm until my AM= C ... and I had never met a dark- haired Celegorm until reading Rhapsody's = stories! :) I also agree with you, Rhapsody, that Celegorm's hair color in= a story will never impede my enjoyment of that story. It is fun for discu= ssion and debate on groups like this, but when it comes to reviewing stori= es, I would never mention it. There are so many interpretations and bits = of conflicting evidence that it's rare when our "canon" becomes an issue o= f right and wrong. As obsessed as I may personally be with learning every = detail of Tolkien's world, I find those readers/ reviewers who try to beat= down every interpretation that does not match their own to be incredibly = tedious individuals. Imho, of course. ;) Best regards, Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 855 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83920 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 17:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 17:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 17:11:27 -0000 Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7E95803E for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:11:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from FIDELIUS (84-20-108-74.no.ventelo.net [84.20.108.74]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:11:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:11:27 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <484034330.20070326191127@tlen.pl> To: "Niki S." In-Reply-To: <101489.64667.qm@web58313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <1568742541.20070326151746@tlen.pl> <101489.64667.qm@web58313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: sirielle Reply-To: sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=unWc5SyGy47iba6qb8xeMBn9pVu2U2J8j5V7uvj0JHHO-e0EFo0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Niki, > Are freckles really any more of a mutation than red hair (or any > hair color) or ruddy complexions would be, though? Perhaps some of > the first Elves to awaken by Lake Cu--Cuiven-- (argh, can't spell > today) Lake Whatchamacallit could have been created with freckles... I remember it's a result of mutation in skin exposed to sun. > I kind of think it'd be cute if some Elves could have freckles, > especially as young children. :) In my !verse in will make cute Edain children only. And when Mr Nelyafinwe will meet a red haired Elda they will have this little difference visible in the first sight. Unless I'll change my mind ;) > Though I could well buy the idea that if Elves had freckles, they'd be less common and/or less > noticeable than human freckles. That is also nice idea - elven freckles would last just for an instant, a few minutes till their extra powerful nanotechnology removes the mutations to keep the body in perfect shape ;) > Or else simply left out of physical descriptions--is there anything said about how Elves look at skin as > far as beauty goes? They are light, pale, only Caranthir has got the ruddy complexion - if we believe Nerdanel - so his skin is red hues or he's got freckles. We discussed what might that mean on a message board and there are different opinions. He is tawny for someone, has got reddish cheeks for others and freckles for the third option. I bet there are mixed ideas, too. Some people wonder what would happen if Feanor never made Silamrili, other what was Caranthir's face like ;) > (Though one could also imagine that Elves don't > have or use melanin in their bodies for pigmentation, if their > bodies don't need it for sun protection...) I see it that way - for some reason they didn't tan - as I understand forever pale skin (or maybe walked always under umbrellas) so their skin had a different security against sun. It must be connected with elvish eyes looking directly in Sun and extremely immune bodies. Sirielle From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 856 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24123 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 17:25:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 17:25:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 17:25:53 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.bc6.e5a3aa3 (48600) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:25:23 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174929923" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=dAmJD_0ORAGEaX0dkfF21NmYnABG5yDMbmb3LjaxeDUU1tfDM7oy X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174929923 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Freckles--love Sirielle's concept that they would disappear almost instantaneously. Fits with my conception of elven healing/perfection. However, I have written Maedhros has having a light tanning/coloration on his face--a direct contradiction of this theory. I also had some moments of musing over the effects of direct sunlight from overhead versus the sort of surrounding effect of the Light of the Trees and what if any effect that would have on elven skin. Decided to put that thought on hold for a while... I do think I am a real liberal on the entire discussion. If an author writes it convincingly, I'll buy it--for moment and that story at least. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174929923 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Freckles--love Si= rielle's concept that they would disappear almost instantaneously. Fi= ts with my conception of elven healing/perfection. However, I have wr= itten Maedhros has having a light tanning/coloration on his face--a direct= contradiction of this theory. I also had some moments of musing over the = effects of direct sunlight from overhead versus the sort of surrounding ef= fect of the Light of the Trees and what if any effect that would have on el= ven skin. Decided to put that thought on hold for a while...
&= nbsp;
I do think I am a real liberal on the entire discussion. I= f an author writes it convincingly, I'll buy it--for moment and that story= at least.



AOL now offe= rs free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.=
-------------------------------1174929923-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 857 Return-Path: X-Sender: marielprosser@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58998 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 16:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 16:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.108) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 16:56:39 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n11.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 16:55:46 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 16:55:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 16:55:46 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:55:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <101489.64667.qm@web58313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "marielprosser" Subject: Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312496; y=c3Zv_AWvvB_Cj_R9I1sbxuynG70vI7s6ZecVmD7NKiE4Z6eTQM1qAA X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser Where did the "no mutation" idea come from? *confuzzled* I would think th= e inability to adapt would eventually prove fatal.... Catherine Karina Chm= iel gives freckles to her Maedhros, sometimes, and I think he looks quite = believable with them. See: http://tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/strony/Maedhr= os_Amrod_i_Amras.htm But if ever anyone's skin is described as 'clear' I t= ake it to mean no blemishes - so no moles, no freckles, no scars, no pimpl= es. Arwen in FotR is described this way, I think. Someone who is descr= ibed as "fair" may also be lacking in freckles and those sorts of things, = unless of course freckles are considered beautiful. *grin* I do not recall= Tolkien mentioning freckles on any of his characters - human, dwarf, or e= lf - so that is certainly left to the freedom of the author/artist in most= cases. ~ MithLuin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "N= iki S." wrote: > > >Let's open another can of worms ;) Fr= eckles or not? IMHO elves =3Dno > >mutations =3D no freckles, which would = bring another difference between > >Eldar and Men. > > Are freckles real= ly any more of a mutation than red hair (or any hair color) or ruddy compl= exions would be, though? Perhaps some of the first Elves to awaken by Lake= Cu--Cuiven-- (argh, can't spell today) Lake Whatchamacallit could have be= en created with freckles... > > I kind of think it'd be cute if some Elve= s could have freckles, especially as young children. :) Though I could wel= l buy the idea that if Elves had freckles, they'd be less common and/or le= ss noticeable than human freckles. Or else simply left out of physical de= scriptions--is there anything said about how Elves look at skin as far as = beauty goes? (Though one could also imagine that Elves don't have or use m= elanin in their bodies for pigmentation, if their bodies don't need it for= sun protection...) > > --Pulsarkat > > sirielle wrote:= > Ooooo I read this (in that essay): > = > > "Their brother Caranthir is another candidate, because "caran" in= Tolkien's Elvish > > means "red." Nerdanel is said to have "auburn" hai= r (ie. red and brown)." > > > Auburn??? But uh... Do we have a Nerdan= el specialist in the house? > > Ha, interesting, isn't it? Where is the= Nerdanel's hair quote... I bet > it's a conclusion from her son's hair q= uotations, unless there is any > other forgotten paragraph. Maybe somethi= ng published in The Shibboleth > of Feanor appendix which appeared only i= n Vinyar Tengwar- includes > IMHO important information on elves life stag= es and Mahtan's beard. > Around Mahtan's description might be something o= n his daughter's hair. > > Does anyone here own the Vinyar Tengwar issu= e with this appendix? > > Maedhros is describes as copper or auburn hair= ed, too. I use red hair which > simply cover all, as Dawn said. > > "5= ) [Caranthir] Morifinwe 'dark' - he was black-haired as > his grandfather.= (Moryo) > > Carnistir 'red-face' - he was dark (brown) haired, but had = > the ruddy complexion of his mother." [HoME XII] > > Caranthir is also= black haired in his father's name (now Rhapsody has > got deja vu from S= WG's LJ) and now we can argue who was better in naming colors - Nerdanel >= or Feanor? Since he was working with jewels and light and she was more >= focused on sculptures I bet Feanaro was the better one. Unless she > pai= nted her sculptures. Hmm. But whatever I prefer the raven haired > Carant= hir (and Curufin) over any dark brown variation. > > Let's open another = can of worms ;) Freckles or not? IMHO elves =3Dno > mutations =3D no freck= les, which would bring another difference between > Eldar and Men. > >= > Yes, but as you mention yourself in one of these threads, if fair do= es > > not mean blonde, than blonde means how Tolkien used the title The= Fair > > to those dark haired ones: pleasing and beautiful to look upon.= > > I was rather thinking of the HoME quotation given there, which I t= hink > Niki provided here, too, not the meaning of the word "fair" > > = "In the Lay at this point (line 1844) Celegorm has 'gleaming hair'; his Ol= d English name was Cynegrim Fogerfeax ('Fair-hair'), IV. 213." > > http= ://community.livejournal.com/silmarillion/84059.html? thread=3D432731#t4327= 31 > > > The first time I stumbled upon Celegorm being blonde > > was i= n AMC, for the rest I know more Silm author's in the Silm fic > > part of= the fandom who are in the dark-raven camp. So yeah, that is > > why I do= know that there is no big Celegorm is a blonde elf- group > > within the = whole fandom. But then again, how many fan fic is there of > > the elf (a= lthough I am working hard on that to change it)? > > Then we read differ= ent fan fics, for your Celegorm is the only dark > haired one I know :D A= nd mine is from blond to "golden-brown" on my > whim ;) > > Sirielle >= > > > > > > -------------------------= -------- > The fish are biting. > Get more visitors on your site using Yah= oo! Search Marketing. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 858 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90148 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 17:19:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 17:19:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 17:19:10 -0000 Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.10.) id r.c4a.11430489 (48600) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:16:50 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1174929410" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Eldar Hair Color Genome X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=NcSsNDp50-ekD9YN43Qp8aOTtj6zEf6Vn5ZBk1xCv3IjN3AItxaH X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1174929410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/2007 12:08:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.net writes: As obsessed as I may personally be with learning every detail of Tolkien's world, I find those readers/ reviewers who try to beat down every interpretation that does not match their own to be incredibly tedious individuals. Imho, of course. ;) So agree with you. The fun in writing Tolkien fanfic is using the world in all it's complexity; simply re-writing or ignoring is no fun at all for me. However, what I chose to focus on as significant (or, lol, even "unalterable") may be very different from what you chose. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1174929410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 3/26/2007 12:08:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@comcast.= net writes:
As obsessed as I may person= ally be with
learning every detail of Tolkien's world, I find those = readers/
reviewers who try to beat down every interpretation that do= es not
match their own to be incredibly tedious individuals. Imho, o= f
course. ;)
So agree wi= th you. The fun in writing Tolkien fanfic is using the world in all it's c= omplexity; simply re-writing or ignoring is no fun at all for me. However,= what I chose to focus on as significant (or, lol, even "unalterable"= ) may be very different from what you chose.



AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out mor= e about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more ab= out what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
There's an .doc version of the Silm under our group files:
h= ttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/files/

:D Sadl= y, we don't have CoH or UT on the files page, but hopefully someone here ha= s a copy on their computer!

T=E1rion

--- On Mon, 6/2/08, A= lassante7 wrote:

=

Does anyone have the Silm, Children of Hurin, and/or UT in dig= ital format?


~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/<= /span>Kathye
<= font size=3D"2">A Kat with many names....still won't come when you = call her
<= /em>

--0-1978451174-1212437212=:57878-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1781 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84332 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2008 20:17:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2008 20:17:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2008 20:17:55 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 58586 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2008 20:17:52 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: l6mvI58VM1lIyMlrJ7iKLIvlIO8lyq6tq_Qjx9u91v1hHu8flZnq3I0_pKNCE3WP5jwrS2rG1rZAPIzWI7iCmjUVgJnf732qZCRtlimAp7qrGAmnOstIj80- X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:17:51 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:17:51 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <885528.57878.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-75559442-1212437871=:58544" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <983755.58544.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Electronic Docs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=Xi-sIUKWtP_x6EtNyKoxJKwxGH2FfJWzrVOn0zJ8A5RfKZrzzA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-75559442-1212437871=:58544 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks! I've got almost everything else electronic and its nice to have it so you don't have to lug the books everywhere you go (especially when you're sneaking in some writing lol) Tarion Anarore wrote: There's an .doc version of the Silm under our group files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/files/ :D Sadly, we don't have CoH or UT on the files page, but hopefully someone here has a copy on their computer! T�rion --- On Mon, 6/2/08, Alassante7 wrote: Does anyone have the Silm, Children of Hurin, and/or UT in digital format? ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza. avonrepresentati ve.com/ ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-75559442-1212437871=:58544 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks! I've got almost everything else electronic and its nice to have it so you don't have to lug the books everywhere you go (especially when you're sneaking in some writing lol)

Tarion Anarore wrote:
There's an .doc version of the Silm under our group files:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/files/

:D Sadly, we don't have CoH or UT on the files page, but hopefully someone here has a copy on their computer!

T�rion

--- On Mon, 6/2/08, Alassante7 com> wrote:

Does anyone have the Silm, Children of Hurin, and/or UT in digital format?


~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-75559442-1212437871=:58544-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1782 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54560 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2008 20:20:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2008 20:20:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.119) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2008 20:20:46 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 87988 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2008 20:20:46 -0000 X-Received: from [71.252.209.207] by web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:20:46 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:20:46 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <983755.58544.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1816229255-1212438046=:87899" Message-ID: <497872.87899.qm@web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Reply-To: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Electronic Docs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=LRrqCZYgSzVsz7oh64cbSfcMEzI3T8CHrvplvQX8NqSBhm9o1rz1FpM X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1816229255-1212438046=:87899 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's also handy for finding specific things. Thank you search function! :D = T=E1rion --- On Mon, 6/2/08, Alassante7 wrot= e: Thanks! I've got almost everything else elect= ronic and its nice to have it so you don't have to lug the books everywhere= you go (especially when you're sneaking in some writing lol) = --0-1816229255-1212438046=:87899 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's also handy for finding specific things. Thank you search f= unction! :D

T=E1rion

--- On Mon, 6/2/08, Alassante7 <= ;alassante7@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tha= nks! I've got almost everything else electronic and its nice to have it so = you don't have to lug the books everywhere you go (especially when you're s= neaking in some writing lol)


--0-1816229255-1212438046=:87899-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1783 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13245 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2008 20:50:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2008 20:50:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.173) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2008 20:50:07 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so1162238wfg.7 for ; Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:50:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.134.20 with SMTP id h20mr3749006wfd.188.1212439807496; Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:50:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 16:50:07 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <95405.27087.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5150_29995091.1212439807510" References: <95405.27087.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Electronic Docs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-S2HhdDxq4hp6p1RHP87Ui47YHR8zCO2F3Gt8ey4SadCXE9c2kbR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_5150_29995091.1212439807510-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1784 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69313 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2008 22:30:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2008 22:30:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.146) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2008 22:30:19 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 22:30:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 22:30:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 22:30:19 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 22:30:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=WK8N6jAsEGwKgcsu3SCfBhFUhzlKFFgtLgAUwcekYZTwCkJPNpuidGWc X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Gwidhiel" = wrote: > > I've also come to this fascinating discussion late (was grading = final > papers and exams over the last two weeks!), but just have to say th= at > my hat is off to you, pandemonium, for such a thorough and considered = > response to a very tricky question! Many thanks, Gwidhel! >It's int= eresting that scientifically minded inquiries into the >nitty-gritty of How= Things Might Work is associated with Morgoth... Heh. Don't get me starte= d. :^D > > I've long been curious about what Tolkien thought about evolut= ion by > natural selection. Because if Men and Elves are the same race, th= en > the Elves would be "mutant" humans, if one believes in the chain of > = evidence suggesting that humans evolved from earlier primate species. > By= mutant, I simply mean a genetic change that afforded an indefinite > lifes= pan and the other differences between Elves and Men. OK, this is absolutel= y irresistible! Thus I beg the indulgence (and the forgiveness) of innocent= SWG-Yahoo group bystanders as I careen madly into "the science of Middle-e= arth" (no apologies to Henry Gee) and commentary thereof. Gwidhel, I've w= ondered about this, too. Although Tolkien didn't particularly care for app= lied science and technology, his knowledge in the "pure" sciences of botany= , astronomy, and geology was obvious. He leveraged that knowledge to create= a believable secondary world. Couple that with the created languages, and= he exceeded what many science fiction writers have attempted to do with le= ss success. His "Myths Transformed" essay, among other things, made it pr= etty clear that he was not a YEC (Young Earth Creationist). He also had an= interest in paleontology (Henry Gee notes this in _The Science of Middle-e= arth_). When I first read the bit about the fell beast* (winged mount of t= he Nazgul) in The Return of the King (I was about 14 at the time), I squeed= big time (or the late 1960's equivalent of "squeeing" :^D). Underlying To= lkien's wave of the wizard's wand (see below) was the hint that this beast = was some sort of winged dinosaur! That, along with any number of things, t= otally pulled me into his world. Like many educated Roman Catholics of his= era, I'm sure JRRT was well aware of adaptation and natural selection. Bu= t applying it to the Elves? I speculate that he would have followed Nick G= uilford's (protagonist in The Notion Club Papers) approach when confronted = with a means of transporting a human through space: "But I should prefer a= n old-fashioned wave of a wizard's wand. Or a word of power in Old Solar fr= om an Eldil. Nothing less would suffice: a miracle." Yet Tolkien gives us= permission (in a sense) to speculate...so I will! That Morgoth-element get= s me *every* time. From his letter (#153) to Peter Hastings: "But since s= ome have held that the rate of longevity is a biological characteristic, wi= thin limits of variation, you could not have Elves in a sense `immortal' = =96 not eternal but not dying by `old age' =96 and Men mortal, more or less= as they now seem to be in the Primary World =96 and yet sufficiently akin.= I might answer that this `biology' is only a theory, that modern `geronto= logy,' or whatever they call it, finds `ageing' rather more mysterious, and= less clearly inevitable in bodies of human structure. But I should actuall= y answer: I do not care. This is a biological dictum in my imaginary world.= It is only (as yet) an incompletely imagined world=85but if it pleased the= Creator to give it (in a corrected form) Reality on any plane, then you wo= uld just have to enter it and begin studying its different biology, that is= all." Since JRRT made the comments on "modern gerontology" in defense of = his humans with indefinite longevity, many fascinating discoveries have bee= n made in the study of aging: telomeres, sirtuins, protein and DNA repair m= echanisms, oxidative damage, etc. So, using a "scientifictitious" (as JRRT= might call it) approach, there could be a plausible biological basis for i= ndefinite longevity, and said species would still be human (although "immor= tality" would surely affect psychology in a profound manner). Based on w= hat I know as a biochemist, the biological mechanisms to achieve Eldarin in= definite longevity would be multiple and arise from *how* gene expression m= ight be regulated. Mutations in regulatory elements of genes (rather than = in structural proteins) could achieve this, again in a "scientifictitious" = way. Multiple mutations would be likely be necessary.** When addressing e= volutionary biology, one must ask what would be the adaptative advantage of= indefinite longevity? Why would such mutations become prevalent and stabl= e in a sub-population of humans? Maybe the genes that gave rise to lustrou= s hair, glowing skin, physical resilience,facial symmetry and enhanced neur= ocognition were inextricably tied to indefinite longevity. And just maybe = those former characteristics (the nice hair, the physical beauty, the enhan= ced "mind-body" connections) were driven by sexual selection - a hugely imp= ortant component of evolution! :^D Or the Great Wizard waved His Wand and = created the Elves. As a reader, I'm satisfied with that explanation in the = context of Tolkienian mythology, and I have read some great stories based o= n the Awakening which follow this concept. This sort of stuff swirls und= er the radar in my fan fic. One of these days I'll write the "Indefinite L= ongevity in H. sapiens eldarensis" like I keep threatening to do. Huh. W= ell, JRRT didn't send that letter to Peter Hastings because he thought "it = seemed to be taking (himself) too importantly." I fear my long-winded post = is similar (reeks of self-importance), but heck, I have no shame! May as we= ll shut my eyes and hit "send!" ------------- And yes, I have footnotes:= *My dark muse is insistent that I write a fic about his "discovery" of th= is atavistic critter; I'm trying to fend him off but he's a difficult fello= w to ignore. **Sean B. Carroll has written a wonderful book entitled "Endl= ess Forms Most Beautiful: The New Science of Evo Devo and the Making of the= Animal Kingdom." In it, he shows how subtle genetic changes can result in= profound phenotypic differences -- which is what I think happened ( in my = 'verse) to differentiate mortal Men and the Firstborn...and (humanly) incar= nated Maiar for that matter. I'm just not sure exactly *how* this happened= . Now where's my wand? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1785 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2070 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2008 22:48:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2008 22:48:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n20b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.134) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2008 22:48:14 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 22:48:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 22:48:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 22:48:14 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 22:48:13 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=EEvZBjMQedxvo_q6bw-izm_5EFdIzzYXIWXvXTbbiHgZj5I X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel pandemonium: Awesome response! Thanks! I actually want to reply more at = length, but I also want to reply right away before heading out the door so = let me just reply to this: > When addressing evolutionary biology, one mu= st ask what would be the > adaptative advantage of indefinite longevity? W= hy would such > mutations become prevalent and stable in a sub-population o= f humans? > Maybe the genes that gave rise to lustrous hair, glowing skin,= > physical resilience,facial symmetry and enhanced neurocognition were > i= nextricably tied to indefinite longevity. And just maybe those > former ch= aracteristics (the nice hair, the physical beauty, the > enhanced "mind-bod= y" connections) were driven by sexual selection - a > hugely important comp= onent of evolution! :^D With this: I agree, and couldn't this be accompli= shed via Eru-guided saltation, perhaps at the behest of the Valar, who, if = they were going to have to interact with humanoids preferred that they be p= retty, intelligent, strong, and long-lived enough so that the Valar wouldn'= t have to constantly re-teach the same darned things over and over to succe= ssive generations like a bunch of doomed kindergarten teachers? If so, wou= ld this make the Elves the ultimate Hopeful Monsters? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1786 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36181 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2008 23:02:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2008 23:02:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.214) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2008 23:02:41 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 23:02:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 23:02:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2008 23:02:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 23:02:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Neuropsychological impact of prolonged darkness in Homo sapiens eldarensis X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=N64pA3RxPwIV953992wnt-fKkqO645WLOUEIGtfl1bBVSs_JtIFIUtYM X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Gwidhiel" = wrote: > > > With this: I agree, and couldn't this be accomplished via = Eru-guided > saltation, perhaps at the behest of the Valar, who, if they we= re going > to have to interact with humanoids preferred that they be pretty= , > intelligent, strong, and long-lived enough so that the Valar wouldn't >= have to constantly re-teach the same darned things over and over to > succ= essive generations like a bunch of doomed kindergarten teachers? Oh, man! = This is striking very, *very* close to the underlying premise of "The Orig= in of (Elvish) Species" in the pandemoniverse! That is, common descent, bu= t poof! Something Happens. :^D > If so, would this make the Elves the ul= timate Hopeful Monsters? > Exactly! And I cannot begin to say how much I "= squee'd" that someone used the term "Hopeful Monsters" in this discussion g= roup. :^D From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1787 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2421 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 16:39:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 16:39:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.155) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 16:39:11 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 34so157139yxf.50 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:39:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.88.20 with SMTP id l20mr2274503wfb.72.1212511150849; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:39:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 09:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 12:39:10 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8237_15892197.1212511150809" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=6vafCsfq7inHKf-Flsg4rOoIG5Rn6wfTl7FIPEwG-ibLtS137KFF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_8237_15892197.1212511150809-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1788 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75797 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 16:52:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 16:52:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.108) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 16:52:07 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 92105 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jun 2008 16:52:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ePkit0oVM1nDe8kN6Q.lF6nCQvjiHeo.A2BrBRA6GItphUcyKlXgXkU15rLZV5DmtFUaXLDLQ95dngju5oMO.OncpMh1ZIfTSlLZ69g8aGMtDF_0bVIZfw-- X-Received: from [24.66.94.140] by web25005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 17:52:06 BST Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 17:52:06 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <484401.89076.qm@web25005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=UXG6yI2TvfqJ6_9GNLkgpJS0tt0VmFwBfkk7_Y1Ef7jMdQhoyw X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- Dawn Felagund wrote: > For example, I have heard that writing Elves' > dialogue, one should not use contractions. I wholeheartedly disagree with this for one important reason: the Elvish languages themselves make frequent use of contractions and, contrary to movie belief, Elves admired quick-paced speech (at least in Quenya). So I would find it unnatural for an Elf *not* to use contractions in generic conversations. Assuming said conversation were understood to be spoken in some form of Elvish among Elves. CGL __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1789 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34109 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 17:12:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 17:12:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 17:12:52 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c40.37af252f (65100) for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:12:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:12:36 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212513156" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ahHX7qIuZa0gqFjkgyt_Z1YZOBb02E4NKHEtnle07v_D4so0niGF X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212513156 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/3/2008 11:40:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: But I have heard numerous people in fandom make this point, so now I question if maybe I'm the one who's nuts. ;) For example, I have heard that writing Elves' dialogue, one should not use contractions. I have even been told--and by more than one person!--that my native American English is jarring or looks strange in Silmarillion stories. I have heard people remark that if a story doesn't sound like something Tolkien might reasonably have written, then they cannot enjoy it as Tolkien fanfic. So I'm curious: What do others think of this idea? You just HAD to raise this didn't you. I feel strongly on this subject. For me, one of the most important aspects of characterization is finding the characters voice and reflecting that in dialogue. If I were to be absolutely true to the characters I have created using Tolkien's stories, then I would have to write in idiomatic Quenya. Well, even if sufficient vocabularly existed, which it doesn't, I could never sound like a native speaker, could I? So, I consider my tales to be written in translation. I would hope a good and lively translation. Therefore, I prefer to write in my native tongue (American English). Since I am writing of bold, rash, and self-confident characters who challenged the norms the Valar tried to force upon them, I think their language must support that. It would be clever, brash and irreverent (and from my experience with their equivalents in the modern world, they would also talk a lot). Everything that I aspire to do my writing is impossible to do in the style in which Tolkien wrote The Silmarillion. He had a totally different intent. He wrote the bare bones of a history in language reminscent of earlier epics he had studied, or what some Americans like to call Biblical (King James translation that would be, I presume, and one I don't even know, as I was raised with a different translation in my early education). There are times when his language soars and there are other times when I am painfully reminded that his principal area of study was linguistics and not literature. (He has written some poetry or fallen into an occasional wordy stiffness can make me cringe and want to pull out my blue pencil.) Relating to the parts of Tolkien where I greatly admire his style, I don't presume to be able to match it nor do I want to imitate it. I am trying to develop a style of my own. In general, I find I have a much more difficult, almost impossible, time reading fanfics which try to write in a psuedo-archaic lofty style. It is so much easier to do badly. I can almost count on one hand the ones I have read where it fit the content, characterization and plot and was gracefully done. It is also all too often accompanied by a desire to use a ten-dollar word when 50-cent one would be more appropriate (and I am all for precision and have a big vocabulary, but I think two or three times before I use a rare word). Or the conception that if one knows one word that means what one intends to say, then two with the same definition are twice as good. So sorry. I did not mean to rant, but you really rattled my cage raising this question. The thing that drew me originally to Dawn's writing that her dialogue and word usage was character-driven. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212513156 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =

In a messag= e dated 6/3/2008 11:40:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. = Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" o= n AOL Food.
-------------------------------1212513156-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1790 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6084 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 18:11:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 18:11:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.30) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 18:11:13 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so154647yxb.63 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:11:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.193.13 with SMTP id q13mr3932379wff.28.1212516672939; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:11:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:11:07 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <484401.89076.qm@web25005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8548_13074751.1212516672938" References: <484401.89076.qm@web25005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=E1KinIdIuTdIFhOHFFg2cnu71P9bpPD_2owRGA9aHqoAeXpUv8cH X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_8548_13074751.1212516672938-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1791 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99006 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 18:47:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 18:47:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.29) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 18:47:12 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 31so175307yxl.13 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:47:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.82.6 with SMTP id f6mr2374190wfb.43.1212518831743; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:47:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:47:11 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8736_27736196.1212518831762" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=VqONrOnZJEiEDy8KicXPxDm8Xix5XLea9kM54vr9cyXpxYP-OeyX X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_8736_27736196.1212518831762-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1792 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25936 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 18:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 18:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 18:53:02 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cfb.346419b0 (65100) for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:52:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:52:53 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212519173" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=XKxwdBOolPzcy0vmceJKFtZHvBFrOBE-6x_-SD7--QhtxrJ6xYfi X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212519173 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/3/2008 1:47:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: But then, I just nominated a story for the MEFAs written in a rather archaic style, and the author not only pulled it off (imho) but made the story better for it. So it's a toss-up ... but I think a writer better know what s/he's doing and might still be rolling the dice on that one. I think I know which one you mean and it did work very well there. I nominated another myself that did a lovely takeoff on Tolkien's style, as they all too often say in LOTR fanfic circles "just like a page out of the book." So it is not idle prejudice on my part that makes me usually not like those. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212519173 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/3/2008 1:47:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com = writes:
= But then, I just nominated a story for the MEFAs written in a rather arc= haic style, and the author not only pulled it off (imho) but made the st= ory better for it. So it's a toss-up ... but I think a writer better kno= w what s/he's doing and might still be rolling the dice on that one.
I think I know which o= ne you mean and it did work very well there. I nominated another myself th= at did a lovely takeoff on Tolkien's style, as they all too often say in L= OTR fanfic circles "just like a page out of the book." So it is not idle p= rejudice on my part that makes me usually not like those.

=

Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. <= A title=3D"http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030= 000000002" href=3D"http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daol= fod00030000000002" target=3D"_blank">Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on= AOL Food.
-------------------------------1212519173-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1793 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81273 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 19:28:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 19:28:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.177) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 19:28:52 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 19:28:52 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 19:28:52 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 19:28:52 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:28:51 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=Xf0az0r5pNWxEyyW7Ak9vrPUNuB8zH9a7C-XBM1CE4l-9X4 X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Authors break canon because they don't know the canon. = Or they break canon > intentionally, hopefully to illustrate something abou= t their characters or > Tolkien's world that could not be done within the b= ounds of canonicity. > Slash is perhaps the best example of AU in Silmfic s= ince the most popular > slash pairings-... I agree with this, Dawn. Altho= ugh I'm generally uninterested in slash pairings involving canonically hete= rosexual, married characters -- particularly elves. For the same reason I = dislike stories involving a canonically married character (again, in partic= ular an elf) hooking up romantically with someone else ... I usually find t= hese to be gratuitous deviations that go in directions that are fundamental= ly at odds with what Tolkien set down (however frustrating things like LaCE= are). I wouldn't rule out the possibility that someone could write a slas= h or adultery story that I'd find interesting ... but the deviation would h= ave to be logical and justified. > > This hearkens back, also, to the d= iscussion on Alternate Universe (AU) > stories that we had here a few month= s back, where it was brought up that, to > write a good AU, one needs excep= tional knowledge of the canon, i.e., know > the rules before you break them= , but others mentioned that the "AU" label > has been used by some authors = to excuse an utter lack of knowledge where > canon is concerned. For exampl= e: "Well, I couldn't be bothered to read the > whole Turin Turambar story, = so my story where Turin is a happy-go-lucky guy > living with Mom and Dad a= nd the sons of Feanor in Himlad and having crazy > adventures with Beleg an= d Denethor of the Green-elves is okay just as long > as I slap an AU label = on it." Of course, everyone has the right to write > what they want ... but= I would not read the latter story, I'll admit, > because an author without= a significant knowledge of Tolkien's world could > not convince me to acce= pt the premise she had just written. I concur. > > So I wondered: Does t= his distinction make a difference to people? Do you > become frustrated wit= h canon incorrectness only when you know that it is > because the author is= ignorant of the canon, or do you have a hard time even > with deliberate A= U stories? It's not just laziness/canonical ignorance that bothers me, bu= t also an unnecessary abandonment of canon. Self-indulgent fantasies about= Human Girl Hooking Up With Already Married Elf Lord, or Married Elf Gettin= g It On With His Best (Bachelor) Friend don't appeal to me. It's not becau= se of an inherent distaste for slash, but because Elves are faithful. Tolk= ien was pretty clear about that, so I just find deviations from that basic = premise to be implausible. Again, I'm not saying that an author couldn't co= nvince me ... but it would have to be a very well-justified development in = a story with consistent internal logic. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1794 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12357 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 19:42:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 19:42:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 19:42:39 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c2d.36ffac78 (37043) for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:42:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-da06 (webmail-da06.webmail.aol.com [205.188.212.201]) by cia-db03.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB031-90b348459ea717d; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:42:32 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:42:31 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA93C9190CB0DA_878_3589_webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37080-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.201) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:42:31 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA93C918F4D96A-878-1AF4@webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=6UVU1Ue_L4pQSuM7pgATR5ncS5h-AR9tYoWOtb0F_paiBVopoBBq X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA93C9190CB0DA_878_3589_webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" but because Elves are faithful. Tolkien was pretty clear about that, so I just find deviations from that basic premise to be implausible. Again, I'm not saying that an author couldn't convince me ... but it would have to be a very well-justified development in a story with consistent internal logic. Well any story with a consistent internal logic stinks, no matter how close to canon or how far away from it. Whether or not elves are always and under all circumstances faithful is a valid literary choice in fanfiction?for me. Very often the same people who tell me that no one should ever write a romantic relationship between two men, write Arwen as though she had the emotional maturity of a 12-year-old or paint the Feanorians as vicious serial killers for no other reason than that they were just plain evil, completely missing the point of The Silmarillion. Different people might draw the line at different points in what parts of canon they see as essential or optional, or have, as I do, their individual likes or turnoffs. But fanfiction is all about altering and/or adding to the original. Otherwise, we should all simply turn off our computers and settle down in a cozy chair with cup of tea and the books. -----Original Message----- From: Gwidhiel To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 3:28 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Authors break canon because they don't know the canon. Or they break canon > intentionally, hopefully to illustrate something about their characters or > Tolkien's world that could not be done within the bounds of canonicity. > Slash is perhaps the best example of AU in Silmfic since the most popular > slash pairings-... I agree with this, Dawn. Although I'm generally uninterested in slash pairings involving canonically heterosexual, married characters -- particularly elves. For the same reason I dislike stories involving a canonically married character (again, in particular an elf) hooking up romantically with someone else ... I usually find these to be gratuitous deviations that go in directions that are fundamentally at odds with what Tolkien set down (however frustrating things like LaCE are). I wouldn't rule out the possibility that someone could write a slash or adultery story that I'd find interesting ... but the deviation would have to be logical and justified. > > This hearkens back, also, to the discussion on Alternate Universe (AU) > stories that we had here a few months back, where it was brought up that, to > write a good AU, one needs exceptional knowledge of the canon, i.e., know > the rules before you break them, but others mentioned that the "AU" label > has been used by some authors to excuse an utter lack of knowledge where > canon is concerned. For example: "Well, I couldn't be bothered to read the > whole Turin Turambar story, so my story where Turin is a happy-go-lucky guy > living with Mom and Dad and the sons of Feanor in Himlad and having crazy > adventures with Beleg and Denethor of the Green-elves is okay just as long > as I slap an AU label on it." Of course, everyone has the right to write > what they want ... but I would not read the latter story, I'll admit, > because an author without a significant knowledge of Tolkien's world could > not convince me to accept the premise she had just written. I concur. > > So I wondered: Does this distinction make a difference to people? Do you > become frustrated with canon incorrectness only when you know that it is > because the author is ignorant of the canon, or do you have a hard time even > with deliberate AU stories? It's not just laziness/canonical ignorance that bothers me, but also an unnecessary abandonment of canon. Self-indulgent fantasies about Human Girl Hooking Up With Already Married Elf Lord, or Married Elf Getting It On With His Best (Bachelor) Friend don't appeal to me. It's not because of an inherent distaste for slash, but because Elves are faithful. Tolkien was pretty clear about that, so I just find deviations from that basic premise to be implausible. Again, I'm not saying that an author couldn't convince me ... but it would have to be a very well-justified development in a story with consistent internal logic. ----------MB_8CA93C9190CB0DA_878_3589_webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
but because Elves
are faithful. Tolkien was pretty clear about that, so I just find
deviations from that basic premise to be implausible. Again, I'm not
saying that an author couldn't convince me ... but it would have to be
a very well-justified development in a story with consistent internal
logic.

Well any story with a consistent internal logic stinks, no matter how close to canon or how far away from it. Whether or not elves are always and under all circumstances faithful is a valid literary choice in fanfiction for me. Very often the same people who tell me that no one should ever write a romantic relationship between two men, write Arwen as though she had the emotional maturity of a 12-year-old or paint the Feanorians as vicious serial killers for no other reason than that they were just plain evil, completely missing the point of The Silmarillion. Different people might draw the line at different points in what parts of canon they see as essential or optional, or have, as I do, their individual likes or turnoffs. But fanfiction is all about altering and/or adding to the original. Otherwise, we should all simply turn off our computers and settle down in a cozy chair with cup of tea and the books.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gwidhiel
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 3:28 pm
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?")

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund"
...> wrote:
>
> Authors break canon because they don't know the canon. Or they break
canon
> intentionally, hopefully to illustrate something about their
characters or
> Tolkien's world that could not be done within the bounds of canonicity.
> Slash is perhaps the best example of AU in Silmfic since the most
popular
> slash pairings-...

I agree with this, Dawn. Although I'm generally uninterested in slash
pairings involving canonically heterosexual, married characters --
particularly elves. For the same reason I dislike stories involving a
canonically married character (again, in particular an elf) hooking up
romantically with someone else ... I usually find these to be
gratuitous deviations that go in directions that are fundamentally at
odds with what Tolkien set down (however frustrating things like LaCE
are). I wouldn't rule out the possibility that someone could write a
slash or adultery story that I'd find interesting ... but the
deviation would have to be logical and justified.

>
> This hearkens back, also, to the discussion on Alternate Universe (AU)
> stories that we had here a few months back, where it was brought up
that, to
> write a good AU, one needs exceptional knowledge of the canon, i.e.,
know
> the rules before you break them, but others mentioned that the "AU"
label
> has been used by some authors to excuse an utter lack of knowledge where
> canon is concerned. For example: "Well, I couldn't be bothered to
read the
> whole Turin Turambar story, so my story where Turin is a
happy-go-lucky guy
> living with Mom and Dad and the sons of Feanor in Himlad and having
crazy
> adventures with Beleg and Denethor of the Green-elves is okay just
as long
> as I slap an AU label on it." Of course, everyone has the right to write
> what they want ... but I would not read the latter story, I'll admit,
> because an author without a significant knowledge of Tolkien's world
could
> not convince me to accept the premise she had just written.

I concur.

>
> So I wondered: Does this distinction make a difference to people? Do you
> become frustrated with canon incorrectness only when you know that it is
> because the author is ignorant of the canon, or do you have a hard
time even
> with deliberate AU stories?

It's not just laziness/canonical ignorance that bothers me, but also
an unnecessary abandonment of canon. Self-indulgent fantasies about
Human Girl Hooking Up With Already Married Elf Lord, or Married Elf
Getting It On With His Best (Bachelor) Friend don't appeal to me.
It's not because of an inherent distaste for slash, but because Elves
are faithful. Tolkien was pretty clear about that, so I just find
deviations from that basic premise to be implausible. Again, I'm not
saying that an author couldn't convince me ... but it would have to be
a very well-justified development in a story with consistent internal
logic.

----------MB_8CA93C9190CB0DA_878_3589_webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1795 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57609 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 19:51:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 19:51:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 19:51:58 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c96.2595a410 (34988) for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:51:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-da06 (webmail-da06.webmail.aol.com [205.188.212.201]) by cia-db01.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB011-88ac4845a0d230; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:51:46 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:51:46 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: <8CA93C918F4D96A-878-1AF4@webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA93CA6394BEE2_878_36D1_webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37080-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.201) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:51:46 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA93CA638670D2-878-1B92@webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=7G2fnHJ0n4pXyrqNAtsgwnPVJccoRbBrtXz6tbK1q1yivzlkF89R X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA93CA6394BEE2_878_36D1_webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well any story with a consistent internal logic stinks, Sorry incomprehensible typo--I meant to type "any story withOUT a consistent internal logic stinks." -----Original Message----- From: heartofoshun@aol.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 3:42 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") but because Elves are faithful. Tolkien was pretty clear about that, so I just find deviations from that basic premise to be implausible. Again, I'm not saying that an author couldn't convince me ... but it would have to be a very well-justified development in a story with consistent internal logic. Well any story with a consistent internal logic stinks, no matter how close to canon or how far away from it. Whether or not elves are always and under all circumstances faithful is a valid literary choice in fanfiction?for me. Very often the same people who tell me that no one should ever write a romantic relationship between two men, write Arwen as though she had the emotional maturity of a 12-year-old or paint the Feanorians as vicious serial killers for no other reason than that they were just plain evil, completely missing the point of The Silmarillion. Different people might draw the line at different points in what parts of canon they see as essential or optional, or have, as I do, their individual likes or turnoffs. But fanfiction is all about altering and/or adding to the original. Otherwise, we should all simply turn off our computers and settle down in a cozy chair with cup of tea and the books. -----Original Message----- From: Gwidhiel To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 3:28 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Authors break canon because they don't know the canon. Or they break canon > intentionally, hopefully to illustrate something about their characters or > Tolkien's world that could not be done within the bounds of canonicity. > Slash is perhaps the best example of AU in Silmfic since the most popular > slash pairings-... I agree with this, Dawn. Although I'm generally uninterested in slash pairings involving canonically heterosexual, married characters -- particularly elves. For the same reason I dislike stories involving a canonically married character (again, in particular an elf) hooking up romantically with someone else ... I usually find these to be gratuitous deviations that go in directions that are fundamentally at odds with what Tolkien set down (however frustrating things like LaCE are). I wouldn't rule out the possibility that someone could write a slash or adultery story that I'd find interesting ... but the deviation would have to be logical and justified. > > This hearkens back, also, to the discussion on Alternate Universe (AU) > stories that we had here a few months back, where it was brought up that, to > write a good AU, one needs exceptional knowledge of the canon, i.e., know > the rules before you break them, but others mentioned that the "AU" label > has been used by some authors to excuse an utter lack of knowledge where > canon is concerned. For example: "Well, I couldn't be bothered to read the > whole Turin Turambar story, so my story where Turin is a happy-go-lucky guy > living with Mom and Dad and the sons of Feanor in Himlad and having crazy > adventures with Beleg and Denethor of the Green-elves is okay just as long > as I slap an AU label on it." Of course, everyone has the right to write > what they want ... but I would not read the latter story, I'll admit, > because an author without a significant knowledge of Tolkien's world could > not convince me to accept the premise she had just written. I concur. > > So I wondered: Does this distinction make a difference to people? Do you > become frustrated with canon incorrectness only when you know that it is > because the author is ignorant of the canon, or do you have a hard time even > with deliberate AU stories? It's not just laziness/canonical ignorance that bothers me, but also an unnecessary abandonment of canon. Self-indulgent fantasies about Human Girl Hooking Up With Already Married Elf Lord, or Married Elf Getting It On With His Best (Bachelor) Friend don't appeal to me. It's not because of an inherent distaste for slash, but because Elves are faithful. Tolkien was pretty clear about that, so I just find deviations from that basic premise to be implausible. Again, I'm not saying that an author couldn't convince me ... but it would have to be a very well-justified development in a story with consistent internal logic. Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. ----------MB_8CA93CA6394BEE2_878_36D1_webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Well any story with a consistent internal logic stinks,
Sorry incomprehensible typo--I meant to type "any story withOUT a consistent internal logic stinks."
 



-----Original Message-----
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?")


but because Elves
are faithful. Tolkien was pretty clear about that, so I just find
deviations from that basic premise to be implausible. Again, I'm not
saying that an author couldn't convince me ... but it would have to be
a very well-justified development in a story with consistent internal
logic.

Well any story with a consistent internal logic stinks, no matter how close to canon or how far away from it. Whether or not elves are always and under all circumstances faithful is a valid literary choice in fanfiction for me. Very often the same people who tell me that no one should ever write a romantic relationship between two men, write Arwen as though she had the emotional maturity of a 12-year-old or paint the Feanorians as vicious serial killers for no other reason than that they were just plain evil, completely missing the point of The Silmarillion. Different people might draw the line at different points in what parts of canon they see as essential or optional, or have, as I do, their individual likes or turnoffs. But fanfiction is all about altering and/or adding to the original. Otherwise, we should all simply turn off our computers and settle down in a cozy chair with cup of tea and the books.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gwidhiel com>
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 3:28 pm
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?")

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund"
...> wrote:
>
> Authors break canon because they don't know the canon. Or they break
canon
> intentionally, hopefully to illustrate something about their
characters or
> Tolkien's world that could not be done within the bounds of canonicity.
> Slash is perhaps the best example of AU in Silmfic since the most
popular
> slash pairings-...

I agree with this, Dawn. Although I'm generally uninterested in slash
pairings involving canonically heterosexual, married characters --
particularly elves. For the same reason I dislike stories involving a
canonically married character (again, in particular an elf) hooking up
romantically with someone else ... I usually find these to be
gratuitous deviations that go in directions that are fundamentally at
odds with what Tolkien set down (however frustrating things like LaCE
are). I wouldn't rule out the possibility that someone could write a
slash or adultery story that I'd find interesting ... but the
deviation would have to be logical and justified.

>
> This hearkens back, also, to the discussion on Alternate Universe (AU)
> stories that we had here a few months back, where it was brought up
that, to
> write a good AU, one needs exceptional knowledge of the canon, i.e.,
know
> the rules before you break them, but others mentioned that the "AU"
label
> has been used by some authors to excuse an utter lack of knowledge where
> canon is concerned. For example: "Well, I couldn't be bothered to
read the
> whole Turin Turambar story, so my story where Turin is a
happy-go-lucky guy
> living with Mom and Dad and the sons of Feanor in Himlad and having
crazy
> adventures with Beleg and Denethor of the Green-elves is okay just
as long
> as I slap an AU label on it." Of course, everyone has the right to write
> what they want ... but I would not read the latter story, I'll admit,
> because an author without a significant knowledge of Tolkien's world
could
> not convince me to accept the premise she had just written.

I concur.

>
> So I wondered: Does this distinction make a difference to people? Do you
> become frustrated with canon incorrectness only when you know that it is
> because the author is ignorant of the canon, or do you have a hard
time even
> with deliberate AU stories?

It's not just laziness/canonical ignorance that bothers me, but also
an unnecessary abandonment of canon. Self-indulgent fantasies about
Human Girl Hooking Up With Already Married Elf Lord, or Married Elf
Getting It On With His Best (Bachelor) Friend don't appeal to me.
It's not because of an inherent distaste for slash, but because Elves
are faithful. Tolkien was pretty clear about that, so I just find
deviations from that basic premise to be implausible. Again, I'm not
saying that an author couldn't convince me ... but it would have to be
a very well-justified development in a story with consistent internal
logic.

----------MB_8CA93CA6394BEE2_878_36D1_webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1796 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8977 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 19:55:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 19:55:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.130) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 19:55:46 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 19:55:46 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 19:55:46 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 19:55:46 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:55:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=AaecJ4ghfOJph8SyGdxKUD7vmXNfE2YLlMshxFor6Da8cjo X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > 1. ... So I wondered: Does this distinction make a d= ifference to people? Do you > become frustrated with canon incorrectness o= nly when you know that it is > because the author is ignorant of the canon= , or do you have a hard time even > with deliberate AU stories?... My tup= pence worth... Yes, if someone seems completely ignorant of canon I do be= come frustrated. Simply because I keep stopping to wonder why they didn't = bother reading the original story. Any such writing usually results in me= wandering off, shaking my head in disbelief... An author would have to be= very good to keep my attention under those circumstances! Deliberate AU i= s fine. Some I like, some is not to my taste. I have no problem with the c= oncept of 'What if...' as a story basis. It is as hard to do as writing an= OC, but it can be done (although I'm not certain I would care to try myse= lf!). > 2. Is a writer's style also a form of canon? In other words, are = we > obligated to try to replicate Tolkien's style (at least somewhat)... = IMNSHO - That idea is nuts. Given the many redactions TS has undergone, wh= ich particular style would that be? And even in TS as published, Tolkien's= style is not very formal - so nix on the 'thee', 'thou', 'shalt', 'no con= tractions' unless it really works for you. If it is something you feel wor= ks then sure, give it a shot. But... /Rant on: And if you want to come ov= er all KJV at me, please remember that 'thou' is a singular pronoun, not a= *formal* way of addressing people, quite the reverse in Middle English in= fact... And anyone who persistently writes 'Thee shall...' can expect to = lose me (and get a poke with a sharp object for abuse of the English langu= age)! /Rant off. At the end of the day, I don't mind what style is used i= f it is consistent within the story. Changing English dialect patterns or = inserting random archaic words unreasonably annoys me. *Shrug*. On the ot= her hand, I'll read and appreciate fanfic written in 133t sp34k if it is e= ntertaining (and have done so):D Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1797 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70988 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 20:16:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 20:16:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 20:16:33 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:16:33 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:16:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:16:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8CA93C918F4D96A-878-1AF4@webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=hy2mLMKem5nDsh0RT57ypzKKHhuxgVXJPY1mrZn74VgBIqg X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = Whether or not elves are always and under all circumstances faithful is a v= alid literary choice in fanfiction?for me. I agree, but if one is going t= o take up that premise, then IMO the author needs to fully explore it, cast= ing it against the canonical position that elves are faithful. It's not th= at I'm a priori against such things, but, rather, that I am quickly annoyed= by someone who launches into a story that requires me to set aside some ba= sic facts about Tolkien's world, without bothering to explain *why* I shoul= d do so. What's the point of the story? If it's a series of hot sex scene= s between Canon Character A and someone not Character A's spouse when Chara= cter A is known to be married, for me to buy into it the author has to just= ify why this is happening. Again, I'm not saying it can't be done, but mor= e often than not the stories like that that I've encountered have given gli= b and (to me) implausible explanations of how this encounter came to pass. = >Very often the same people who tell me that no one should ever write >a r= omantic relationship between two men, write Arwen as though she >had the em= otional maturity of a 12-year-old or paint the Feanorians >as vicious seria= l killers for no other reason than that they were >just plain evil, complet= ely missing the point of The Silmarillion. Indeed, and just to be clear, = I personally have no problem with slash in and of itself. >Different peo= ple might draw the line at different points in what >parts of canon they se= e as essential or optional, or have, as I do, >their individual likes or tu= rnoffs. This is also absolutely true, and I don't assume that others must= draw the line where I do. My only point is that when some people (sometim= es, me) adhere to canonical perspectives and don't appreciate non-canonical= innovation, it's not because they need to loosen up about slash or relax a= bout nit-picky facts. >But fanfiction is all about altering and/or adding= to the original. >Otherwise, we should all simply turn off our computers a= nd settle >down in a cozy chair with cup of tea and the books. Well, that= 's just it ... my point is that the portion of the potential readership tha= t is motivated to seek (what they deem to be) plausible expansions of the = characters and events that Tolkien laid down wouldn't be part of the fanfic= tion audience otherwise. That's almost certainly not all of the audience! = And I certainly don't suggest that innovations and novel ideas should be a= voided, but simply assert that there are well-intentioned, intelligent, ope= n-minded people who nevertheless aren't too interested in seeing dramatic d= eviations from the source material. To return to the issue of slash for a = moment, IMHO Tolkien himself opened the door for that possibility in descri= bing the close affection between Maedhros and Fingon, so it's certainly not= the case that I see slash in and of itself as uncanonical. I don't for = a moment imagine that I'm speaking for anyone but myself, and while I absol= utely respect any author's right to make any innovations she pleases, I sim= ultaneously reserve my right to adhere to what is interesting to me. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1798 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91037 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 20:21:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 20:21:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 20:20:59 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D19E58037 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:21:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:20:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:20:55 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1155973427.20080603222055@tlen.pl> To: moreth00 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: OT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=NYG6rXjSGizjUJn9kBW502vIs3zJRE_u039ybDXHPuW78pJPVKg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Moreth, m> And if you want to come over all KJV at me What does it mean? Googling "KJV" leads to Bible. m> 'thou' is a singular pronoun, not a *formal* way of addressing m> people, quite the reverse in Middle English in fact... Good to know! Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1799 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90128 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 20:27:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 20:27:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.206) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 20:27:44 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:27:44 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:27:44 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:27:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8CA93C918F4D96A-878-1AF4@webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=OSWWe_gO1c_iNP2H6I7eEvu-Cmhl5sE4jNotBe_Ma0dc_88 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 Hmmm - on this point, I personally am happy to suspend disbelief quite a w= ay. I do totally get the point that Tolkien states Elves are faithful, but= ... exploring human (or elven) relationships is an interesting area for au= thors. As both Oshun and Gwidhiel say - it needs to have an internal logi= c. Well, even the most dotty of human behaviour generally does have some = 'it seemed like a good idea at the time' backing and they do need some rea= son to be in sufficiently close proximity! Maybe someone can write a convi= ncing reason why Feanor is having a secret affair with Legolas... or maybe= not. (That would take some fast talking and good writing!) Personally, I= 'm generally happy with 'What if...?' Complete illogic would baffle me, ho= wever. It seems to me that the reader will be uncomfortable if they keep a= sking, 'Why the hell is this happening?' So perhaps a good AU story needs = a lot of planning? Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.co= m, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > > > but because Elves > are faithful. Tol= kien was pretty clear about that, so I just find > deviations from that bas= ic premise to be implausible. Again, I'm not > saying that an author couldn= 't convince me ... but it would have to be > a very well-justified develop= ment in a story with consistent internal > logic. > > > Well any story = with a consistent internal logic stinks, no matter how close to canon or h= ow far away from it. Whether or not elves are always and under all circums= tances faithful is a valid literary choice in fanfiction?for me. Very ofte= n the same people who tell me that no one should ever write a romantic rel= ationship between two men, write Arwen as though she had the emotional mat= urity of a 12- year-old or paint the Feanorians as vicious serial killers f= or no other reason than that they were just plain evil, completely missing= the point of The Silmarillion. Different people might draw the line at d= ifferent points in what parts of canon they see as essential or optional, = or have, as I do, their individual likes or turnoffs. But fanfiction is al= l about altering and/or adding to the original. Otherwise, we should all s= imply turn off our computers and settle down in a cozy chair with cup of t= ea and the books. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gwidhiel > To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 3 Ju= n 2008 3:28 pm > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Ca= non or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") > > > > > > > = --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" > wrote: > > > > Authors break canon because they don't know the cano= n. Or they break > canon > > intentionally, hopefully to illustrate someth= ing about their > characters or > > Tolkien's world that could not be done = within the bounds of canonicity. > > Slash is perhaps the best example of = AU in Silmfic since the most > popular > > slash pairings-... > > I agree = with this, Dawn. Although I'm generally uninterested in slash > pairings i= nvolving canonically heterosexual, married characters -- > particularly elv= es. For the same reason I dislike stories involving a > canonically marrie= d character (again, in particular an elf) hooking up > romantically with s= omeone else ... I usually find these to be > gratuitous deviations that go = in directions that are fundamentally at > odds with what Tolkien set down = (however frustrating things like LaCE > are). I wouldn't rule out the poss= ibility that someone could write a > slash or adultery story that I'd find = interesting ... but the > deviation would have to be logical and justified.= > > > > > This hearkens back, also, to the discussion on Alternate Univ= erse (AU) > > stories that we had here a few months back, where it was bro= ught up > that, to > > write a good AU, one needs exceptional knowledge of= the canon, i.e., > know > > the rules before you break them, but others m= entioned that the "AU" > label > > has been used by some authors to excuse= an utter lack of knowledge where > > canon is concerned. For example: "We= ll, I couldn't be bothered to > read the > > whole Turin Turambar story, so= my story where Turin is a > happy-go-lucky guy > > living with Mom and Dad= and the sons of Feanor in Himlad and having > crazy > > adventures with B= eleg and Denethor of the Green-elves is okay just > as long > > as I slap a= n AU label on it." Of course, everyone has the right to write > > what the= y want ... but I would not read the latter story, I'll admit, > > because = an author without a significant knowledge of Tolkien's world > could > > n= ot convince me to accept the premise she had just written. > > I concur. >= > > > > So I wondered: Does this distinction make a difference to people= ? Do you > > become frustrated with canon incorrectness only when you know= that it is > > because the author is ignorant of the canon, or do you hav= e a hard > time even > > with deliberate AU stories? > > It's not just la= ziness/canonical ignorance that bothers me, but also > an unnecessary aband= onment of canon. Self-indulgent fantasies about > Human Girl Hooking Up Wit= h Already Married Elf Lord, or Married Elf > Getting It On With His Best (B= achelor) Friend don't appeal to me. > It's not because of an inherent dist= aste for slash, but because Elves > are faithful. Tolkien was pretty clear= about that, so I just find > deviations from that basic premise to be impl= ausible. Again, I'm not > saying that an author couldn't convince me ... bu= t it would have to be > a very well-justified development in a story with = consistent internal > logic. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1800 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76814 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 20:29:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 20:29:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.244) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 20:29:22 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 55so1189715hsc.10 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:29:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.101.17 with SMTP id y17mr13753202agb.82.1212524960865; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 3sm297077hsw.13.2008.06.03.13.29.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4845A933.1050002@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:27:31 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <1155973427.20080603222055@tlen.pl> In-Reply-To: <1155973427.20080603222055@tlen.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=YEEzsRgFIgiduXlg2l7X8y_PJ7ZmV3UYY7sGwF7WKBMoKKaJXd76ag X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Sirielle, KJV is the Bible - the King James Version, a Bible that was published in 1611 IIRC. Because it was published so long ago, it sounds archaic compared with more recent translations. It has more thee's and thou's and words ending in -eth or -est than you hear in more modern colloquial language. Because it is one of the most authoritative English translations of the Bible, you still hear it quoted today a lot when people quote Bible passages. So I'd guess for something "to come over all KJV" means that it sounds archaic and probably a little stilted. So even though "thou" isn't in fact formal, to me (and I suspect to some other people as well) it will *sound* formal. Marta Sirielle wrote: > > > Ai Moreth, > > m> And if you want to come over all KJV at me > > What does it mean? Googling "KJV" leads to Bible. > > m> 'thou' is a singular pronoun, not a *formal* way of addressing > m> people, quite the reverse in Middle English in fact... > > Good to know! > > > Suilad, > Sirielle > > sirielle@tlen.pl > http://www.isle.px.pl > http://sirielle.cgsociety.org > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1801 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40089 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 20:38:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 20:38:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n36d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.190) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 20:38:15 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:38:15 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:38:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:38:14 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:38:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1155973427.20080603222055@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: OT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=5BuC9f3Zgaj1WcxcTBJx6U8-yKChBsCwHuSvb6x6rf9pDDc X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 Oh, sorry. KJV does indeed =3D King James Version of the Bible. Also known= as AV =3D Authorized Version... there may be subtle differences, but for = the purposes of demonstrating language use they are much the same. It's a= ll 'thee', 'thou' etc. Quite beautiful language, just hard to write as fan= fic! Example: "I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh= my help." Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Siri= elle wrote: > > Ai Moreth, > > m> And if you want to come= over all KJV at me > > What does it mean? Googling "KJV" leads to Bible. = > > > m> 'thou' is a singular pronoun, not a *formal* way of addressing >= m> people, quite the reverse in Middle English in fact... > > Good to kn= ow! > > > Suilad, > Sirielle > > sirielle@..= . > http://www.isle.px.pl > http://sirielle.cgsociety.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1802 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71637 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 20:43:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 20:43:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.117) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 20:43:00 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:43:00 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:43:00 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:43:00 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:42:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4845A933.1050002@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: OT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=PqM-IyT-5fZtKwZ26ZiThc0cwCdbv3wSOlprYfWWoaJ2ras X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 Thanks, Marta :D Yes, exactly. Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@ya= hoogroups.com, "melayton@..." wrote: > > Hi Sirielle, > > = KJV is the Bible - the King James Version, a Bible that was published in = > 1611 IIRC. Because it was published so long ago, it sounds archaic > com= pared with more recent translations. It has more thee's and thou's > and = words ending in -eth or -est than you hear in more modern colloquial > la= nguage. Because it is one of the most authoritative English > translations= of the Bible, you still hear it quoted today a lot when > people quote B= ible passages. > > So I'd guess for something "to come over all KJV" means= that it sounds > archaic and probably a little stilted. So even though "= thou" isn't in > fact formal, to me (and I suspect to some other people a= s well) it will > *sound* formal. > > Marta > > Sirielle wrote: > > > = > > > Ai Moreth, > > > > m> And if you want to come over all KJV at me > = > > > What does it mean? Googling "KJV" leads to Bible. > > > > m> 'thou'= is a singular pronoun, not a *formal* way of addressing > > m> people, qui= te the reverse in Middle English in fact... > > > > Good to know! > > > >= > > Suilad, > > Sirielle > > > > sirielle@... > > http://www.isle.px.pl > > http://sirielle.cgs= ociety.org > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1803 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71059 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 20:45:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 20:45:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 20:45:06 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:45:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:45:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:45:06 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:45:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="3-1892878737-9028473574=:8" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=4wzY2yMnZ5zf8C8CN6wYl90FCy0B0kXrS9kIoVhMmPObGCEsBLZ9Iw5d X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --3-1892878737-9028473574=:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wr= ote: > > Well, even the most dotty of human behaviour generally does have >= some 'it seemed like a good idea at the time' backing... > . [OT] Heh. Ch= eck out today's entry in the Chimpanzee Refuge! [/OT] *Brachiates back to= unapologetically AU pandemoniverse* --3-1892878737-9028473574=:8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wrote:
>
> Well, even the most dotty of human behavi= our generally does have
> some 'it seemed like a good idea at th= e time' backing...
>
.

[OT] Heh. Check out today's entry in= the Chimpanzee Refuge!  [/OT]

*Brachiates back to unapologetic= ally AU pandemoniverse*
--3-1892878737-9028473574=:8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1804 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7196 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 20:47:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 20:47:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 20:47:08 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39434104072 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:47:07 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:47:06 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:47:04 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1716883343.20080603224704@tlen.pl> To: "melayton@gmail.com" In-Reply-To: <4845A933.1050002@gmail.com> References: <1155973427.20080603222055@tlen.pl> <4845A933.1050002@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=QsOq9xsHH2flcTjb14-Y6VJsuNWlmfpPMvU5CdUxAdCX7PsmUgg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Hi Marta, thank you for the explanation, now I understand it wasn't metaphor nor :) Of course I haven't seen it, also I think the popular Polish translation is less archaic. But I do not own Bible nor read it, so am not the best person to state it. And yes, I thought "thou" was formal. I don't think I've ever used it, fortunately. But if I was writing in English - in the past thinking it is formal form - I would use "thou" instead of "you" in a moment when one of characters wanted to be formal, more distant. Like I've switched brothers calling each other by mother names to formal father names when one wanted to distance from another. (At least that was my aim.) Sirielle mgc> Hi Sirielle, mgc> KJV is the Bible - the King James Version, a Bible that was published in mgc> 1611 IIRC. Because it was published so long ago, it sounds archaic mgc> compared with more recent translations. It has more thee's and thou's mgc> and words ending in -eth or -est than you hear in more modern colloquial mgc> language. Because it is one of the most authoritative English mgc> translations of the Bible, you still hear it quoted today a lot when mgc> people quote Bible passages. mgc> So I'd guess for something "to come over all KJV" means that it sounds mgc> archaic and probably a little stilted. So even though "thou" isn't in mgc> fact formal, to me (and I suspect to some other people as well) it will mgc> *sound* formal. mgc> Marta mgc> Sirielle wrote: >> >> >> Ai Moreth, >> >> m> And if you want to come over all KJV at me >> >> What does it mean? Googling "KJV" leads to Bible. >> >> m> 'thou' is a singular pronoun, not a *formal* way of addressing >> m> people, quite the reverse in Middle English in fact... >> >> Good to know! >> >> >> Suilad, >> Sirielle >> >> sirielle@tlen.pl >> http://www.isle.px.pl >> http://sirielle.cgsociety.org >> >> mgc> Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1805 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58710 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 20:55:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 20:55:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.178) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 20:55:06 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:55:06 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:55:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 20:55:05 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:55:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=WxwUV6yBJluqkOjKQsEaBKYBXlUvOB6zE96GQdMOMECTLI8 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 And doesn't that just leave me with sudden brake-failure on the whole stee= p downhill of human behaviour ... *Arrrrghhhh* I'm sure it seems like a go= od idea to them... Feanor and the Two Trees anyone? --- In SilmarillionW= ritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > = > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" >= wrote: > > > > Well, even the most dotty of human behaviour generally does= have > > some 'it seemed like a good idea at the time' backing... > > > . = > > [OT] Heh. Check out today's entry in the Chimpanzee Refuge! [/OT] > = > *Brachiates back to unapologetically AU pandemoniverse* > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1806 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90656 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 20:57:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 20:57:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.87) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 20:57:09 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 82028 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jun 2008 20:57:09 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 1C91B3sVM1m6Jv88r8sshuHdVIrwRAEf.dmYMQSoVTX25F1ufAHbxbcCTeB5CwNxZHVwB7LaEPSkDoLZ1oCsphtKMnHujkhhMZJq.RdbfuDxwzOHy92_Mci1NQ-- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:57:09 PDT Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:57:09 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <347161.81792.qm@web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Tolkien's style [was: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=lZ_AMIrS0wsEtiTcyTKpxXfJauLyB38uBZbmk_I6Tz9u5k59hkCe1z_06lvX X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess I submit that Tolkien doesn't have a coherent style, so it'd be impossible to attempt mimcry. It's pretty clear (to me) that he was aping several literary traditions, indepently, and often in the same work. For instance, LoTR switches style wildly, usually from chapter to chapter as the point-of-view focus changes. Don't believe me? Read a chapter about hobbits, and then read a chapter about the Rohirrim. The cadence is totally different, as are the amount of dialogue used, the descriptive detail, and the langauge itself. The Silmarillion is even less coherent in terms of literary style (which, I believe, is why it eludes so many readers). So, no, I don't believe that fic writers must write in Tolkien's style. Because he didn't have just one. :) Also, avoiding contractions is a cheap and easy way to make one character's dialogue bits sound older, wiser, more ponderous than another's. I've been known to use that cheat, both in and out of ficdom. viv --- Dawn Felagund wrote: > 2. Is a writer's style also a form of canon? In > other words, are we > obligated to try to replicate Tolkien's style (at > least somewhat) or chance > tossing readers from the story same as though we had > written Turin skipping > through daisy fields singing "Tra-la-la-la-lally"? > > I'll admit that I first thought this idea was nuts. > But I have heard > numerous people in fandom make this point, so now I > question if maybe I'm > the one who's nuts. ;) For example, I have heard > that writing Elves' > dialogue, one should not use contractions. I have > even been told--and by > more than one person!--that my native American > English is jarring or looks > strange in *Silmarillion* stories. I have heard > people remark that if a > story doesn't sound like something Tolkien might > reasonably have written, > then they cannot enjoy it as Tolkien fanfic. So I'm > curious: What do others > think of this idea? > > Now I've gone on too long again, and it is > lunchtime. Thanks for the great > discussion, everyone! :) > > All the best, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1807 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54689 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 21:02:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 21:02:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 21:02:20 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42124104017 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:02:19 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:02:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:02:16 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <619731501.20080603230216@tlen.pl> To: moreth00 In-Reply-To: References: <1155973427.20080603222055@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: OT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=k6efI38vrJ45R7wZRfixYrdTstsnh4GriQqu4Nn_igE1v8URa50 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Moreth, m> Oh, sorry. No problem, I just learned something new :) m> It's all 'thee', 'thou' etc. Quite beautiful language, just hard to m> write as fanfic! And understand for someone like me ;) I still haven't red the Fall of Gondolin for these reasons, sorry. One day. m> Example: "I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh m> my help." Indeed sounds archaic and given that it exists in people's conscience as words from a book of wisdom, higher truth etc. use of such language for elves could have sense as they themselves are wisdom, especially in III Age; in the I one wisdom would be rather Valar's domain. But I would prefer elves to use wise, beautiful and rather more philosophical than archaic language. For a contrast illiterate/human could use informal, incomplete language or slang, dialect different from formal speech, depending on how illiterate that character was. Not a fancy slang of rappers, but something people outside of universities or offices speak. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1808 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24106 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 21:02:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 21:02:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.250) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 21:02:21 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so2384799rvf.44 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:02:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.141.179.5 with SMTP id g5mr6139091rvp.237.1212526940942; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:02:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.141.75.10 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806031402t6ea060ebn9ce8e8e479da7432@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 16:02:20 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 828d66f18436b114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=AI6MAuagXIy_tWzGC802N5vLKpwkR5cZ32BKbQCBYz9kJQ X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel > 1. More than a few people have said that a story that egregiously breaks > canon (particularly where characterization is concerned) throws them out of > Tolkien's world and can be a good reason for abandoning the story. I would > agree ... to an extent. I often say that I am willing to be convinced of > just about anything in a story. (In fact, the reason that I picked up > Tolkien in the first place was a willingness to be convinced; literary snob > that I was, at the time, I was sure that I could never like one of those > subpar fantasy "genre" stories! :) But, to me, there are two distinct > reasons for breaking canon, and what I intuit the author's reason to be will > likely be an influence as to whether I'm willing to be convinced about the > uncanonical bits or whether I am tossed right out of the story. > I guess, for me, I get to the point of - "if you're not going to write within the world, why ... um.. are you writing in the world?" I feel like, if you're writing original, don't use Tolkien's characters' names and his locations. And I feel that is what a lot of so-called 'fanfic' is. I hold fanfic to as a high a standard as anything else I read. MOST SpecFic is written in serials these days, either individual authors or co-authors and I do expect them to stay within the world they created. There is a lot of pro-fanfiction out there (Star Wars and Star Trek - for example) and if i were reading one of those and they decided that Chewy was short and Spock was an emotional blond I'd be going "WTF!?" and the book would go in the trash. unless there were really reallREALLY good reasons very early on in the story. If you want to explore a gapfiller - those are my favs. If you want to explore a reason or justification or motivation of a character, show a different side to someone or a deeper level - I love those too. I don't have a 'problem' with self-indulgence on any level, or any other number of genres/sub-genres, but I'm not going to read it. A happy go lucky Turin would be pretty hard to pull off and my suggestion is that you'd have a better story if you wrote someone kinda sorta but not exactly like Turin who went through some stuff kinda sorta based on what Turin went through and explore how someone could have the strength and fortitude to remain optimistic and upbeat through those trials. It actually sounds like a real challenge that would turn into a fantastic novel, ... But don't call him Turin if you want me to read it. I feel that, with the research I've done, and some of the stories I've written, that durn near anything can be found in canon and/or justified if the author will put the effort into it. ...back to LaCE. It says specifically that it was a grief to the Valar when two desired one. ... apparently there were enough threesomes going on that it was a matter of concern to them. Does that make group sex canon? I've written a full length novel and two novellas based on the line that Maedros appeared to be unwed. **appeared**?! ...wow. JRRT didn't insert random words by accident... so what does that mean? and I love loveLOVE reading anything that can "make me believe". But an author can't do that for me when they keep having to say "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"... .... I just accidentally bought the fourth book in a Weber/Ringo series. DAM* ... so once the first three get here, I''ll have about 3/4 million words sitting on my desk waiting to suck me in. I'm willing to spend the money, and the time because I have reader trust in them because they have, in the past, proved that they will meet my expectations in their worlds. Certainly there are a lot of fanfic authors on that level, and those are the ones I read as I find them. I'm not saying that the ones I don't read aren't worthwhile. I think *all* WRITING is worthwhile, but just because it's been written does not create an obligation for it to be read. And I think that's where there is a lot of hangup in the fandom. People seem to expect that since they've written something, readers should flock in and enjoy it. ... aint gonna happen. It's not why we're here. Writers are here to write and readers are here to read. Some people are both readers and writers, but I have come to understand that the two are not necessarily connected. I'm sure that a lot of that doesn't seem on-topic, but I do think it's relevant to the question. As a writer... I don't care at all what anyone else writes, or how they write it. One thing or another doesn't 'bother' me that it's been written. What bothers me is the expectation that I need to read it, or the justification that it's 'this' or 'that' or 'ok' or 'not ok'. Anyone could argue some elements with me until they are blue and the best we're going to be able to do is agree to disagree. The thing is, about canon arguments... Tolkien wrote a 'modern boy falls into Middle-earth' and all kinds of stuff, if you dig deep enough you will find it. But the question in fanfic, is if it's done in a way that engages the readers and makes them believe. It's very hard to make me believe. (to finally answer your questions) I will click off a story pretty quickly for casual errors because it destorys my reader's trust in the author (that the author knows what they're doing) (and that the author is going to keep me in Tolkien's world). And I will pretty quickly click off AUs because every time it hits the world then pops out, it's like riding a horse that erratically changes gaits and throws you off balance. There's no flow and I don't find it any fun. Sulriel From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1809 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60889 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 21:04:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 21:04:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.159) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 21:04:31 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 21:04:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 21:04:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 21:04:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:04:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1716883343.20080603224704@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: OT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=7KrsV3W_1YYn5PnEre_hD6kpQicfdPtlNEYrx0U7c52JwJ4 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 Ai Sirielle, Feel free to use 'thou' as and when you want :D I only rant a= t people who claim to be 'technically correct' and then fail to be so... = In a story where you want a sudden change of pronoun for emphasis, I'm not= going to complain! Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.c= om, Sirielle wrote: > > Hi Marta, > > thank you for the ex= planation, now I understand it wasn't metaphor > nor :) Of course I haven't= seen it, also I think the popular Polish translation is less archaic. > B= ut I do not own Bible nor read it, so am not the best person to state > it= . > > And yes, I thought "thou" was formal. I don't think I've ever used = it, > fortunately. But if I was writing in English - in the past thinking = it > is formal form - I would use "thou" instead of "you" in a moment when= one of characters > wanted to be formal, more distant. Like I've switched = brothers calling > each other by mother names to formal father names when = one wanted to > distance from another. (At least that was my aim.) > > Sir= ielle > > > > > mgc> Hi Sirielle, > > mgc> KJV is the Bible= - the King James Version, a Bible that was published in > mgc> 1611 IIRC= . Because it was published so long ago, it sounds archaic > mgc> compared= with more recent translations. It has more thee's and thou's > mgc> and = words ending in -eth or -est than you hear in more modern colloquial > mgc= > language. Because it is one of the most authoritative English > mgc> t= ranslations of the Bible, you still hear it quoted today a lot when > mgc>= people quote Bible passages. > > mgc> So I'd guess for something "to c= ome over all KJV" means that it sounds > mgc> archaic and probably a litt= le stilted. So even though "thou" isn't in > mgc> fact formal, to me (and= I suspect to some other people as well) it will > mgc> *sound* formal. >= > mgc> Marta > > mgc> Sirielle wrote: > >> > >> > >> Ai Moreth,= > >> > >> m> And if you want to come over all KJV at me > >> > >> Wh= at does it mean? Googling "KJV" leads to Bible. > >> > >> m> 'thou' is a= singular pronoun, not a *formal* way of addressing > >> m> people, quite= the reverse in Middle English in fact... > >> > >> Good to know! > >> = > >> > >> Suilad, > >> Sirielle > >> > >> sirielle@... > >> http://www.isle.px.pl > >> h= ttp://sirielle.cgsociety.org > >> > >> = > > > > mgc> > > > > Suilad, > Sirielle = > > sirielle@... > http://www.isle.px.pl > http://siriell= e.cgsociety.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1810 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85591 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 21:14:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 21:14:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.136) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 21:14:08 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.90] by n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 21:14:07 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 21:14:07 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2008 21:14:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:14:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <619731501.20080603230216@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: OT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=mQbgy5zyP8q31ySz7d382C30rqU7OXH_Q6TyqVy_Qmy2q5c X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 > Indeed sounds archaic and given that it exists in people's conscience as= > words from a book of wisdom, higher truth etc. use of such > language fo= r elves could have sense as they themselves are wisdom, > especially in III= Age Sirielle, I think you have that exactly right! I hadn't thought of i= t like that before... >But I would > prefer elves to use wise, beautiful = and rather more philosophical than > archaic language. Oh, me too! I woul= d much prefer a just slightly more formal language for elves then the arch= aic KJV of english. It is soooooo hard to write! Better left to the bible = translation. Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Siri= elle wrote: > > Ai Moreth, > > m> Oh, sorry. > > No probl= em, I just learned something new :) > > m> It's all 'thee', 'thou' etc. = Quite beautiful language, just hard to > m> write as fanfic! > > And und= erstand for someone like me ;) I still haven't red the Fall of > Gondolin = for these reasons, sorry. One day. > > m> Example: "I will lift up mine = eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh > m> my help." > > Indeed sounds= archaic and given that it exists in people's conscience as > words from a= book of wisdom, higher truth etc. use of such > language for elves could h= ave sense as they themselves are wisdom, > especially in III Age; in the I = one wisdom would be rather Valar's domain. But I would > prefer elves to u= se wise, beautiful and rather more philosophical than > archaic language. = For a contrast illiterate/human could use informal, incomplete language or= slang, > dialect different from formal speech, depending on how illiterate= that > character was. Not a fancy slang of rappers, but something people = > outside of universities or offices speak. > > > Suilad, > Sirielle = > > sirielle@... > http://www.isle.px.pl > http://s= irielle.cgsociety.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1811 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96406 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 21:15:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 21:15:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.87) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 21:15:55 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 94871 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jun 2008 21:15:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: DCCAtSkVM1ls3664M_SWQm701uhHM.KhI79LPI6sEyfu5QWrPR8w1RFuRfZ0yECF2WsWh4FjwXF_fjaFMBdblsn7DsIcvAnwuJNTkZZrCD93dzCN37epn7Kc2A-- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:15:55 PDT Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:15:55 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0806031402t6ea060ebn9ce8e8e479da7432@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <240874.28883.qm@web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=lTzR196W02trAb3DaMittLXZ88_njTFTMmw0LqHPbfnNLUSiH3OCyKTPVcMr X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess About three years ago, I would have agreed with this statement wholeheartedly. Back then the movies were still fresh and the fandom was glutted, and even lazy fic was getting read and reviewed. But lately I've seen quite a few servicable-if-not-brilliant fics posted to just a handful of hits and no reviews. Nobody writes violet-eyed Sues anymore. The fandom is just different now. Some would say that's a good thing. (Though I am so very very tempted to write a violet-eyed Sue...) viv --- S�lriel of Menegroth wrote: > People seem > to expect that > since they've written something, readers should > flock in and enjoy it. > ... aint gonna happen. http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1812 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92953 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 21:19:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 21:19:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 21:19:26 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E1E748086 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:19:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:19:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:19:22 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1588388112.20080603231922@tlen.pl> To: moreth00 In-Reply-To: References: <1716883343.20080603224704@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: OT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=bCgTlWIHRc9apynfqnrXqLG7GlryxpzyqSGwh7Nng0Knh8JgwcI X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Moreth, m> Feel free to use 'thou' as and when you want :D I only rant at people m> who claim to be 'technically correct' and then fail to be so... I prefer use something I understand and know how to use properly, too. Archaic English is not my domain ;) m> In a story where you want a sudden change of pronoun for emphasis, m> I'm not going to complain! That would be the only use I guess. Or for a person talking riddles in trance, a visitor from Aman appearing in III Age or a substitute of Quenya in mouth of Noldorin messenger passing Maedhros' message to Elw�. But no, I ma not going to learn archaic English now, nor write anything. Just thinking what could be a justified use of a sudden strange archaic speech. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1813 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7113 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 21:19:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 21:19:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 21:19:32 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 71872 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jun 2008 21:19:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: h7zVcMEVM1mxl6p_CZkAGdafq6fPNMXkiCnaNDhQCv537eRQRewTOFwFv5ND7qpDb9TpSkahLp8JIdStFuAy5WpYOrw4eoKNuiBR0o38Z2_NWeY6mJyUAZs- X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:19:31 PDT Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:19:31 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0806031402t6ea060ebn9ce8e8e479da7432@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2058663177-1212527971=:71372" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <825621.71372.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=-o6gziuvYxRppcSCLW1LCGrZhmK3nZId5r8A6HMsEks11OwsUA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-2058663177-1212527971=:71372 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think one thing is very clear - there are certainly enough viewpoints that each writer - no matter their style or feelings about what is canon - can appeal to some audience, whether a large one or a smaller one. There are some people who love the books, love the movies and still love their Mary Sue, canon-bending, modern speaking, 10th walker Lego-mances. Just as there are many that enjoy the gap fillers that stick straight in line to canon. Luckily its a big enough sandbox for everyone. The only problem comes when people decide that they have the right to tell others how to write. If you don't like someone's writing, you should just stop reading it. Thats one of the things i cannot stand about FF.net - people think its their job to tell people how to write or what is canon. Its not constructive - its just mean. Sooooo anyway - my point is big sandbox, just don't throw sand at anyone ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-2058663177-1212527971=:71372 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think one thing is very clear - there are certainly enough viewpoints that each writer - no matter their style or feelings about what is canon - can appeal to some audience, whether a large one or a smaller one. There are some people who love the books, love the movies and still love their Mary Sue, canon-bending, modern speaking, 10th walker Lego-mances. Just as there are many that enjoy the gap fillers that stick straight in line to canon. Luckily its a big enough sandbox for everyone. The only problem comes when people decide that they have the right to tell others how to write. If you don't like someone's writing, you should just stop reading it. Thats one of the things i cannot stand about FF.net - people think its their job to tell people how to write or what is canon. Its not constructive - its just mean.

Sooooo anyway - my point is big sandbox, just don't throw sand at anyone


~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-2058663177-1212527971=:71372-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1814 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75991 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 21:29:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 21:29:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 21:29:25 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5B4E104027 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:29:23 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:29:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:29:21 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <180642740.20080603232921@tlen.pl> To: moreth00 In-Reply-To: References: <619731501.20080603230216@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: OT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=Cmt1Uqll-osdR3H5DPw9riA7sYpynSQ7uaJQle2-lcj7pCwyGCo X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle m> I think you have that exactly right! I hadn't thought of it like that m> before... Especially that as you say people still use it daily and quote it everywhere, so it's archaic but still alive. I don't see it in Poland, as I said our present translation of the Bible is not archaic in language. I just checked on-line it was issued for the first time in 1965 and aim of translators was to achieve modern literary language. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1815 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60159 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 21:29:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 21:29:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.248) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 21:29:54 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c18so449017anc.4 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:29:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.121.12 with SMTP id t12mr18400726anc.132.1212528594006; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a22sm602256pye.6.2008.06.03.14.29.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4845B763.7080605@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 17:28:03 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: reasonable canon mistakes X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=0Gs4ch9wRXLBEgYXozXdzebUyq-hQksn-Jb905wiRyVapkNLXCGevw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hey guys, I've been reading the debate on canon, fanon, AU, etc. with quite a bit of interest. I have found myself nodding at an awful lot at each of the posts made, because you're all making some really good points. For my part, I've been too wearied by RL and busy with other fandom projects (read: MEFAs) to want to get involved in a detailed discussion. But I can't resist. Because reading, it seems like a lot of the posts assume that all stories fall into one of three groups: --- disregarding canon out of a complete ignorance of the pertinent canon (c.f. Dawn's Turin Turambar story, Msg #1787) --- AU in a careful or purposeful fashion --- canon-compliant, at least on the important things. The trouble is one man's "how could you not know that?" fact is another person's "gee, you learn something new every day. I'm sure we could all come up with examples of pieces of canon that to us seem second nature but aren't that well known, even to other Silmfic readers. To give a brief non-Silm example: It boggles my mind when people think that Denethor (as in, the steward of Gondor, not the Nandorin elf) wasn't completely in his rights to use the palantir. It's stated so emphatically... in the _Unfinished Tales_ essay on the palantiri. Which of course most people reading the LOTR fanfic may not have read; but to me it seems such a basic factoid. The thing is, when you're world-building, you come across these references and you really think on them and build on them so that it's hard to imagine your readers not knowing them. Conversely, if I read a story where someone says Denethor had no right to use the palantir, it will totally jerk me out of the story; but the author herself did not make what she considered a big canon mistake. She probably knew LOTR - maybe frontwards and backwards, and the appendices besides! but because a fact seemed basic to me, in my mind it is hard not to relegate her to the realm of "authors who can't be bothered to learn their canon." I guess my point is, there are canon passages that we know, that it seems like any decently-educated fanfic author would *have* to know - but that really, a person could make a good-faith effort to educate themself, and still make a mistake. Possibly a crucial one in terms of that fanfic story; but they really are *trying* to write a good story, and the above break-down of types of stories doesn't seem to really allow for that. And I try to accommodate them, because fanfic is a hobby. I love well-researched stories, but I also know that not everyone has the time to research every detail; and they're doing their best. If there's room for that kind of error in the comparatively simple Third Age canon, I imagine this problem would be even more pronounced in Silmfic, where there are *so* many sources in so many stages of development. I don't know what the solution is, of course. But it seemed worth saying nonetheless. :-) Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1816 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91356 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 21:56:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 21:56:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.240) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 21:56:02 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id k29so1650929rvb.0 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:56:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.141.33.21 with SMTP id l21mr6160614rvj.251.1212530150715; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:55:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.141.75.10 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806031455m2308cc66r999f379e77cc2bd4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 16:55:50 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <240874.28883.qm@web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <3c715e1e0806031402t6ea060ebn9ce8e8e479da7432@mail.gmail.com> <240874.28883.qm@web56813.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 42dc412471b740df X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=cMc73YDKfwOZIHzUFMgZLYKLcfQI0I2k4lFVfD9Pvwd0Vg X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel > --- S=FAlriel of Menegroth wrote: >>> People seem >>= to expect that >> since they've written something, readers should >> flock= in and enjoy it. >> ... aint gonna happen. On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 4:15 P= M, Viv wrote: > About three years ago, I wou= ld have agreed with this > statement wholeheartedly. Back then the movies w= ere > still fresh and the fandom was glutted, and even lazy > fic was getti= ng read and reviewed. But lately I've > seen quite a few servicable-if-not-= brilliant fics > posted to just a handful of hits and no reviews. > > Nobod= y writes violet-eyed Sues anymore. The fandom is > just different now. Some= would say that's a good > thing. (Though I am so very very tempted to writ= e a > violet-eyed Sue...) > > viv > > I'll say both 'yes and no'. ;) I = do think that fandom writers have matured, as a whole, both technically and= emotionally. And I think that's a very good thing. On a random click, I r= ead a mefa novel over the weekend that totally blew me away. I read the fi= rst line, then the second, and so on and before I knew it - there was no mo= re 'next'. ... and that's the way it's supposed to work. The screaming Sue= s are an easy example, but there are a thousand more, that fit in the indet= erminate area of 'is so'/'is not'. The what is/isn't canon, what is/isn't= AU, what is/isn't Sue... for example (not to push a hot-button, but it's = an easy one) I don't read Fingon/Maedhros pairings. I don't care for slash= , although my most recent new fav original series features bdsm and slash. = I love the characters and the story because it's incredibly well-written t= hroughout regardless of any specific genre or subgenre. But IMO it's OOC f= or Tolkien. ...Sure.. the 'appeared' line may have referred to Fingon. I'= ll give you that. But I'm not going to read it. At the same time, I'm not= going to tell anyone they can't write it and I think that's where the prob= lem is. (and I think we're all in agreement on that). IIRC - the original = question was - at what point of divergence do you click off. .. and for me = - the answer is "pretty early". I share your pain about the (IMO) 'good on= es' sometimes not getting as many reads - I wish I had the answer. I'd be = both rich and famous. ;) But I think, in part, that's the difference of 'w= riting to the market' and 'writing from the heart'. There are some authors= who can 'write from the heart' and it's what everyone is looking to read. = But if I've learned anything about writing in the last few years, it's tha= t sometimes, the strongest, deepest, (best) novels are not the ones that ha= ve mass market appeal. Sulriel > > -- Sue L www.WritingHor= ses.com ~ Horses for your Heroes www.FantasyHorseStable.com From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1817 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22126 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 22:18:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 22:18:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.84) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 22:18:26 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 6624 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jun 2008 22:18:26 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: wXkft7cVM1n9kqJSKk49v6jkNqiaX0e0k_tqWwSPK5v4t5.ywnjrXXU27Dc8e05fEw_uvkIElxiAnzQFcFpmIjmV9fxtx_2jla6BL2ZD0l7zba.UTB0uSOYgfw-- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:18:25 PDT Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:18:25 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4845B763.7080605@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <995469.3832.qm@web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] reasonable canon mistakes X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=sYP1OCzqG46cQNCIj2uUxYjc1x8BzUG7MMfTxpIzujxSM11Dx8EwJoaSg3vG X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess Marta, that example of Denethor's right to use the Palantir was *excellent*. There's just so much Tolkien material out there that even if a writer knows LoTR really well, sometimes it's not enough for a well-versed reader to suspend disbelief. And that isn't a criticism of either the writer or the reader. It's just how things are in such a rich and multilayered fandom. viv --- "melayton@gmail.com" wrote: > To give a brief non-Silm example: It boggles my mind > when people think > that Denethor (as in, the steward of Gondor, not the > Nandorin elf) > wasn't completely in his rights to use the palantir. > It's stated so > emphatically... in the _Unfinished Tales_ essay on > the palantiri. Which > of course most people reading the LOTR fanfic may > not have read; but to > me it seems such a basic factoid. The thing is, when > you're > world-building, you come across these references and > you really think on > them and build on them so that it's hard to imagine > your readers not > knowing them. > > Conversely, if I read a story where someone says > Denethor had no right > to use the palantir, it will totally jerk me out of > the story; but the > author herself did not make what she considered a > big canon mistake. She > probably knew LOTR - maybe frontwards and backwards, > and the appendices > besides! but because a fact seemed basic to me, in > my mind it is hard > not to relegate her to the realm of "authors who > can't be bothered to > learn their canon." > > I guess my point is, there are canon passages that > we know, that it > seems like any decently-educated fanfic author would > *have* to know - > but that really, a person could make a good-faith > effort to educate > themself, and still make a mistake. Possibly a > crucial one in terms of > that fanfic story; but they really are *trying* to > write a good story, > and the above break-down of types of stories doesn't > seem to really > allow for that. > > And I try to accommodate them, because fanfic is a > hobby. I love > well-researched stories, but I also know that not > everyone has the time > to research every detail; and they're doing their > best. If there's room > for that kind of error in the comparatively simple > Third Age canon, I > imagine this problem would be even more pronounced > in Silmfic, where > there are *so* many sources in so many stages of > development. > > I don't know what the solution is, of course. But it > seemed worth saying > nonetheless. :-) > > Marta > http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1818 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40138 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 23:23:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 23:23:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.107) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 23:23:33 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 22712 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jun 2008 23:23:32 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: U.K2hO8VM1kRBEMa0iYMf5Jlv4uLjJ8bej0mn8I2.Wd3aU9Ltpl2d7hASM5x_X7.usVKGXKxW1BHNs8_0JyUKSVu7biRaUsWeWH9mqUtmENpwqATSWFD7w-- X-Received: from [24.66.94.140] by web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 00:23:32 BST Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 00:23:32 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0806031402t6ea060ebn9ce8e8e479da7432@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <791818.22221.qm@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=NzV2cvFts3SbmlzFm30qS_uZrwdC3R0SSyYa4TvMhLeeNqEBjg X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- S�lriel of Menegroth wrote: > I feel like, if you're writing original, don't use > Tolkien's > characters' names and his locations. And I feel > that is what a lot of so-called 'fanfic' is. Well... yes. That is what fanfic is. An original story based within known elements. Nobody can write perfectly canonical fanfiction, because everyone interprets the canon in different ways. What is canonical to you will be wildly inappropriate to somebody else, based on how you personally choose to read into the given information and what contradictory evidence you pick as 'right'. > if i were reading > one of those and they decided that Chewy was short > and Spock was an > emotional blond I'd be going "WTF!?" and the book > would go in the trash. I think an important thing to distinguish when analysing canonicity is the difference between canon fact and canon interpretation. Chewie being tall and hairy is a Star Wars canon fact, and anything that diverges from this would have to be AU (or just plain badfic). Tolkien's Elves being distant and formal is a canon interpretation. Some people will write them this way, and call every carefree Elf uncanonical. But there's no way to prove this as the correct interpretation. Especially when you compare the Silmarillion with the Hobbit. Unfortunately, most things that canatics write off as 'uncanonical' are interpretation rather than fact. They become fanon. > I feel that, with the research I've done, and some > of the stories I've > written, that durn near anything can be found in > canon and/or > justified if the author will put the effort into it. I think this is exactly why we can call very few things canon fact. Vague sentences can be read in too many different ways, depending on the outcome the reader desires. > ...back to LaCE. It says specifically that it was a > grief to the Valar when two desired one. It also says specifically that this document was written by a mortal Man as he interpreted Elven society in Valinor, Ages after any of the Silm or LotR events took place. So... > And I will pretty quickly click off AUs because > every time it hits the > world then pops out, it's like riding a horse that > erratically changes > gaits and throws you off balance. Oddly, I would like to offer that a good AU will actually require as much canon knowledge (or even more, in some cases) than a more straightforward story. A crappy AU is one in which the changes to canon fact are there seemingly only for the author's convenience. Say, to facilitate an otherwise impossible pairing or just to produce cutesy fluff about Favourite Character A. A well-written AU will know when it diverges from fact, diverge for a good reason, and follow through with the consequences of that divergence so that all the way through, the reader can feel that everything 'wrong' still works smoothly. CGL __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1819 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35383 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2008 23:30:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2008 23:30:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.248) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2008 23:30:58 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id x43so1302018hsb.3 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:30:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.52.1 with SMTP id z1mr13938990agz.108.1212535857400; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f57sm2054590pyh.38.2008.06.03.16.30.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4845D3C1.6000004@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:29:05 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <995469.3832.qm@web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <995469.3832.qm@web56810.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] reasonable canon mistakes X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=RNpVFWIJEXe_WWBrWSpJiBxYaFLe8jqlCON_X2RNmqdmrtv7lRjrvw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Viv, Thank you! I am glad the example came across well. I imagine there are other similar examples in Silmfic, but as I am mostly a reader and discusser rather than a writer there, I couldn't think of any offhand. And I'm *really* glad it came across not as a criticism but as an observation. That's exactly how I meant it. Marta Viv wrote: > > > Marta, that example of Denethor's right to use the > Palantir was *excellent*. There's just so much > Tolkien material out there that even if a writer knows > LoTR really well, sometimes it's not enough for a > well-versed reader to suspend disbelief. And that > isn't a criticism of either the writer or the reader. > It's just how things are in such a rich and > multilayered fandom. > > viv > > --- "melayton@gmail.com " > > wrote: > > > To give a brief non-Silm example: It boggles my mind > > when people think > > that Denethor (as in, the steward of Gondor, not the > > Nandorin elf) > > wasn't completely in his rights to use the palantir. > > It's stated so > > emphatically... in the _Unfinished Tales_ essay on > > the palantiri. Which > > of course most people reading the LOTR fanfic may > > not have read; but to > > me it seems such a basic factoid. The thing is, when > > you're > > world-building, you come across these references and > > you really think on > > them and build on them so that it's hard to imagine > > your readers not > > knowing them. > > > > Conversely, if I read a story where someone says > > Denethor had no right > > to use the palantir, it will totally jerk me out of > > the story; but the > > author herself did not make what she considered a > > big canon mistake. She > > probably knew LOTR - maybe frontwards and backwards, > > and the appendices > > besides! but because a fact seemed basic to me, in > > my mind it is hard > > not to relegate her to the realm of "authors who > > can't be bothered to > > learn their canon." > > > > I guess my point is, there are canon passages that > > we know, that it > > seems like any decently-educated fanfic author would > > *have* to know - > > but that really, a person could make a good-faith > > effort to educate > > themself, and still make a mistake. Possibly a > > crucial one in terms of > > that fanfic story; but they really are *trying* to > > write a good story, > > and the above break-down of types of stories doesn't > > seem to really > > allow for that. > > > > And I try to accommodate them, because fanfic is a > > hobby. I love > > well-researched stories, but I also know that not > > everyone has the time > > to research every detail; and they're doing their > > best. If there's room > > for that kind of error in the comparatively simple > > Third Age canon, I > > imagine this problem would be even more pronounced > > in Silmfic, where > > there are *so* many sources in so many stages of > > development. > > > > I don't know what the solution is, of course. But it > > seemed worth saying > > nonetheless. :-) > > > > Marta > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1820 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26748 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 01:07:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 01:07:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.168) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 01:07:49 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so1400635wfc.28 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 18:07:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.199.16 with SMTP id w16mr4389030wff.268.1212541668941; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 18:07:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 18:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806031807h28535acve59025a1efb7747@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 20:07:48 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <791818.22221.qm@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <3c715e1e0806031402t6ea060ebn9ce8e8e479da7432@mail.gmail.com> <791818.22221.qm@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3f81358288a29e0f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=6Dy1L0uypBrOzF3GZG6aSJYwPpss7cnhpt81g45zTz7-Ow X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 6:23 PM, CGL wrote: > > ---= S=FAlriel of Menegroth wrote: >>> I feel like, if you= 're writing original, don't use >> Tolkien's>> characters' names and his lo= cations. And I feel >> that is what a lot of so-called 'fanfic' is. > > We= ll... yes. That is what fanfic is. An original > story based within known= elements. hmmm... well.. we might be picking nits at each other, but on = the whole, I don't agree that writing an original story (storyline/plot/gap= filler) set in Tolkien's world using his characters is the same as setting = a conceived by you plot and setting it in a new world with characters, or w= riting an original plotline in our known real-world using new characters an= d existing real-world locations. Nobody can write > perfectly canonical = fanfiction, because everyone > interprets the canon in different ways. Wha= t is > canonical to you will be wildly inappropriate to > somebody else, ba= sed on how you personally choose to > read into the given information and w= hat contradictory > evidence you pick as 'right'. True. But where I clic= k off is where I read something that seems uncanonical to me. As compared t= o some people who will continue reading even if the story seems uncanonical= to them. > >> if i were reading >> one of those and they decided that C= hewy was short >> and Spock was an >> emotional blond I'd be going "WTF!?" = and the book >> would go in the trash. > > I think an important thing to di= stinguish when > analysing canonicity is the difference between canon > fac= t and canon interpretation. Chewie being tall and > hairy is a Star Wars c= anon fact, and anything that > diverges from this would have to be AU (or j= ust plain > badfic). Chewy being tall and hairy is fact from a human POV.= It's certainly possible (although strange) to write from a point of view = from which he might seem puny and relatively hairless. ...although that wo= uld have to be established quite early in the narrative so the reader would= understand. > Oddly, I would like to offer that a good AU will > actua= lly require as much canon knowledge (or even > more, in some cases) than a = more straightforward > story. Totally agree. A crappy AU is one in which= the changes to > canon fact are there seemingly only for the author's > co= nvenience. Say, to facilitate an otherwise > impossible pairing or just to= produce cutesy fluff > about Favourite Character A. A well-written AU wil= l > know when it diverges from fact, diverge for a good > reason, and follo= w through with the consequences of > that divergence so that all the way th= rough, the > reader can feel that everything 'wrong' still works > smoothly= . Totally agree on this as well, but it's still going to be hard to get me= to start it and it will have to be extraordinary to keep me reading. :) = Sulriel From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1821 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73251 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 15:11:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 15:11:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.156) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 15:11:36 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so94321ywm.72 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:11:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.213.9 with SMTP id l9mr11193wfg.180.1212592295846; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:11:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:11:35 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3254_19114183.1212592295851" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=76J6S8KFZmP43xxiY9u1PmpTmO4vmjMIQgNu8CsfyGm3odCwLGh7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_3254_19114183.1212592295851-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1822 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81676 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 15:47:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 15:47:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.30) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 15:47:33 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so71893ywj.47 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:47:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.143.28.8 with SMTP id f8mr21418wfj.270.1212594452988; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:47:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:47:32 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4845B763.7080605@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3349_3022818.1212594452999" References: <4845B763.7080605@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] reasonable canon mistakes X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=VyeMnZsioY5Co1RZjINuiDJsgwDeIyvIk6e7OIAiwpA2fZygxbbI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_3349_3022818.1212594452999-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1823 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86670 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 15:50:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 15:50:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 15:50:06 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 15:50:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 15:50:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 15:50:06 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:50:06 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=fN4h2bYxXybgZkDqZ-R7gcN1_j6i-MPn3GmQ4I3Yv7ECagw X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > > So I guess I really can't complain about it anymore,= can I? However, I will > still point it out in betas (along with the new u= sage information) and > reserve the right to continue being driven nuts by = it. ;) > I think you're in good company there, Dawn -- apparently Samuel = Johnson found it to be "a vicious mode of speech." http://www.worldwidew= ords.org/qa/qa-fro2.htm From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1824 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31836 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 15:56:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 15:56:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.185) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 15:56:30 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id j67so78009rne.21 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:56:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.47.6 with SMTP id u6mr35559wfu.111.1212594989685; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:56:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:56:29 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3377_13845074.1212594989708" References: <8CA93C918F4D96A-878-1AF4@webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=_YF7PBW9SnznVTw9ELm7jEazkpqKCQCqAv5rLSKcyoMD-RCRvnIZ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_3377_13845074.1212594989708-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1825 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17733 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 16:07:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 16:07:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 16:07:10 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d01.3108dc45 (65097) for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:06:59 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212595619" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=fJK7jMuay4nayTIxr8tIE2nleyhlVg1mJHaNQWZJk5Zs3YzPUryB X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212595619 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2008 10:56:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: Seems a fairly simple solution, not to mention painless for all parties involved. :) One would think so, but often in the Tolkien fandom people believe they have a responsibility to "expose" writers who do things they dislike. I got one over-the-top flame that complained a slash story of mine was particularly insidious and hateful because it was well-written, tasteful, and convincing. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212595619 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =

In a messag= e dated 6/4/2008 10:56:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:



Get trade secrets for amazing bur= gers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Flore= nce" on AOL Food.
-------------------------------1212595619-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1826 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99579 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 16:08:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 16:08:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.89) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 16:08:18 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 85379 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2008 16:08:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: D6HWdB8VM1me2Vi_GTo1Y1sEBCewqPeV4NT5KJnYXOtXYk.btZjYuG5lh8SoO8PTmhXBfAQsYJX8m1x8Fb5o2wQwrmFRCyU6PZQwPAzZsUyleEM8e8NROuZWxg-- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:08:16 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:08:16 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <770044.83035.qm@web56815.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] reasonable canon mistakes X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=cMeowylw8v_fnN4H7wu0lK37MQ09Pp75PhR1jaPVBww7ke6PTQ9KSYtMhmTD X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess Translations are a good point. I usually archive in places where readers are pretty well-versed in canon, but I recently posted some stuff on ffnet. Someone left a review asking what "hroa" and "fea" were, and the question took me aback a little. But it's a valid question. So now am translating everything in footnotes, which probably makes me sound pompous to the deep-content fans. ;) viv --- Dawn Felagund wrote: > (The best Silm example I can think of is the Quenya > translations of the > names of the members of the House of Finwe. This > seems such basic > information to me ... but it's not. It's not in *The > Silmarillion, *so it's > not fair to expect someone who's only read *The > Silmarillion* to know > it*.*Recently, while getting my MEFA-nominated > stories ready for the > this year, > it occurred to me that a lot of them use Quenya > names, and none of the > stories provided translations. Someone who's read > *The Silmarillion* once > and has no real interest in Silmfic would probably > have no clue who > "Nelyafinwe" and "Findekano" and "Macalaure" were, > unless they persisted > enough to pick it up from the context. So, needless > to say, in my spare > time, I am going back and adding translations. :) > > I think it's good to keep in mind, too, that we are > writing > *Silmarillion*stories. A lot of people include the > HoMe in their > canon, but it seems a bit > much to me to ask every participant in this fandom > to learn every one of > Tolkien's works beyond LotR, *The Hobbit*, and the > Silm.* When I read a Silm > story, if a fact is wrong according to* The > Silmarillion*, then I'm much > more likely to point it out than if it violates the > HoMe. I find it much > easier to enjoy Silmfic by believing that no one > writing it has ever read > anything past *The Silmarillion*. ;) > > * Which, to clarify, I have never known anyone in > this group to do. But I > have seen instances where a story is shredded for > not staying "true" to this > or that fact from the HoMe without any thought as to > whether the writer > would have read the HoMe or even had access to it. > Monetary and time issues > aside, I once beta'ed for an author who lived in a > place where the HoMe > could only be acquired by ordering it online, and, > as she was 15 at the > time, her parents wouldn't let her order it. So she > literally had no way of > accessing it (this was before I had my e-books to > share with her) and > certainly couldn't be held accountable for not > following what the rest of us > consider canon from the HoMe. > > Rambling again, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1827 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89381 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 16:12:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 16:12:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.185) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 16:12:08 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k40so93558rnd.0 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:12:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.16.1 with SMTP id t1mr190825wai.49.1212595925531; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:12:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:12:05 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11066_13647086.1212595925518" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=X81_DHeX6IDIkhxOExWT_mlcvV_xm_tNZZkanjf12bhkLrRiB1Sl X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11066_13647086.1212595925518-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1828 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54844 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 16:14:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 16:14:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 16:14:39 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cdb.32805cf8 (65097) for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:14:29 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212596069" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=PNFOq0jen_-gR__L4ZL_4CFwIMy4J_CijjbT3IvcmTa090R7wVNX X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212596069 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2008 11:12:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: >From whence I liked "from whence" but you and Claudio beat me over the head for it a couple of times each, so I've decided to take the path of least resistance and avoid it. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212596069 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/4/2008 11:12:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:



Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food<= /A>.
-------------------------------1212596069-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1829 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77271 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 16:20:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 16:20:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.131) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 16:20:37 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 16:20:36 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 16:20:36 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 16:20:36 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:20:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=GPSFSZls83sYyGAE7aMXdAYH0XD9nLXUNrj25oODh3Ekqyw X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > If I > encounter a story that I can't tolerate either= because of the writing or the > author's use (or not ;) of canon, then I v= ote with my feet and don't read it > and, if the author makes a habit of co= nventions I don't particularly care > for, stop reading that person's work = altogether. Seems a fairly simple > solution, not to mention painless for a= ll parties involved. :) > > Dawn > I'm completely with you Dawn, and in = fact if I remember correctly I said as much in my first contribution to thi= s discussion. Since we were discussing where various people draw lines, I = offered my two (1 .. 4 how much now?) cents -- but always with the caveat = that it's my personal set of preferences! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1830 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14993 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 16:24:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 16:24:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.180) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 16:24:21 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id v33so90779wah.2 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:24:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.109.1 with SMTP id h1mr217581wac.35.1212596660422; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:24:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:24:20 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11167_3865419.1212596660412" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Cq3ieT7i89aivuFdMB2-zQc7ZIVsasZtWxQf5Epq10eWXjWTcBNS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11167_3865419.1212596660412-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1831 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50015 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 16:29:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 16:29:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.190) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 16:29:10 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id m36so95314rnd.18 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:29:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.46.10 with SMTP id y10mr180723waj.137.1212596950197; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:29:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:29:10 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11231_5126107.1212596950192" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hbQ_AiYOOnCAlbW2cWExQfXQqzH9-uovuetJ2PhPb1W-3zw_WoLH X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11231_5126107.1212596950192-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1832 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4294 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 16:31:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 16:31:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 16:31:46 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.ceb.365f5165 (65097) for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:31:41 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212597101" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=8B6c2jbI_0wK8VcK0UxLQwQJOW7VQx3RlcHbpMnvvid2DFzIj0Wo X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212597101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2008 11:24:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: Luckily, these people are few and far between, although they cause more than their fair share of the nuisances, in my experience. I picked one of the worst examples I could think of, but there is generally a sensitivity to criticism, that results in overlong footnotes also. I know a small departure or alteration can result in some author's believing that for a story to read and enjoyed, they have to list every possible controversial canon fact in a footnote or author's note. I want to tear my hair when I see a drabble accompanied by several hundred words of defensive explantion. I want to scream--let it fall or stand on it's own merits. But I know where that impulse comes from at least. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212597101 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = -------------------------------1212597101-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1833 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51719 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 17:04:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 17:04:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n27a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.243) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 17:04:37 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n27.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 17:04:37 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 17:04:37 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 17:04:37 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:04:35 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=ulGhVUFkk8QOzg5VjpF0TDN7suZdaXTUAmchblr51W8kv8c X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Yay! I'm not alone in my quirks! \0/ > > I do understa= nd the opposite perspective ... a bit: > > "It succeeds because it is info= rmal and colloquial compared with > *whence*used alone, a construction that= is unusual enough to force > readers to stop > and work out the meaning." = > > This is all very true, but I qualify "a bit" because why not just say = *from > where* if there is concern that the intended audience will stumble = over * > whence*? I'm just guessing, but I think it's because there is a = set of wh-pronouns -- who, what, and which (although the latter can also be= an adjective) -- that are often paired with prepositions like 'to' or 'fro= m.' When paired with a preposition, 'who' changes form to 'whom.' 'Where' = is not a pronoun, it's an adverb, but since it has a phonological/spelling = similarity to pronouns like 'who' or 'which,' it's easy to mistakenly think= it belongs to the same category that they do. And (some? many?) people kn= ow that 'where' undergoes a transformation, 'whence,'when used in a preposi= tional phrase. So they think that 'whom' is to 'who' as 'whence' is to 'wh= ere,' which leads them to insert a redundant preposition ('from') in front = of 'whence.' Moreover, if a person treats 'where' as a pronoun (like 'whic= h' or 'who' or 'what'), then grammatically one just replaces the antecedent= with the pronoun in question, leaving any prepositions in place. Thus ...= 'from whence." I might be wrong about that though. *From whence* annoy= s me, in part, because it sounds like a writer > trying to make his/her wri= ting sound more formal, but does doing so in a way > that shows an utter la= ck of meaning for the word you're using actually > accomplish this? Yeah .= .. I'm with you, but the usage is so common that it's probably not really a= reasonable assumption to make. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1834 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13261 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 17:37:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 17:37:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.59) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 17:37:42 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 17:37:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 17:37:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:37:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=5wSI4FJZxe6ZMpxvWPRYqaSJGNkJxgq4bM0b6PZfLIpuD_E X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > Certain individuals in fandom approach canonicity the wa= y that some > religious fanatics approach religious truth. Hence, I like to= call these > people "canatics": those who don't merely like their canon bu= t have an > unrealistic view of how violating it in a fanfic will affect th= e Earth's > orbit or the likelihood of nuclear war or any number of genuine= tragedies. > > And like some religious fanatics, their duty isn't done un= til all believe as > they do, and anyone who makes a convincing stand for a= n alternate > interpretation must represent some evil force at work because= , of course, > there is only one correct way to believe, and they believe i= t. > I agree about zealotry -- it's so counter-productive. I've always pr= eferred to say nothing about a story that I don't like. Pointing out typos= or gaps/inconsistencies in the plot line is useful; telling someone that s= he should or shouldn't include contractions ... or slash ... or whatever he= r creative drive has led her to do, is often just obnoxious. But I had a= rather weird experience some time ago, when I was an active participant on= a Tolkien fanfiction-related discussion board. A member had repeatedly as= ked -- in fact, begged! -- others to read and review her latest AU story. I= had looked at the story earlier and while I found some of the uncanonical = ideas interesting, and the writing was reasonably good, in general the plot= and characterizations were completely implausible to me. So I hadn't even= finished the story, and I didn't review it, because I felt like I wasn't p= art of its intended audience. In fact it was so self-indugently AU that, = if it had been published while the Official Fanfic University of Middle Ear= th was being written, might well have earned itself a bit of parodying ther= ein. But the author was *very* eager to have feedback, so I took the time = to write her a long email explaining where I had difficulties buying her ch= aracterizations and plot developments. I emailed her, rather than posting = a review in the archive, because my response was largely negative -- but it= was all constructive criticism, respectfully couched. She responded qui= te calmly but chided me for shortcomings as a reader and for failing to rec= ognize her authorial right to construct a story set (supposedly) in Tolkien= 's world as she saw fit. She also wanted me to present my feedback in a pa= rticular format, addressing technical writing issues ... as if I were givin= g her feedback in a creative writing class. I realized that she and I were= participating in the community for totally different, and in that case inc= ompatible, reasons. We corresponded for a bit and there wasn't a lot of ho= stility from her, but I'm sure she walked away from that exchange thinking = that I was an uptight, unimaginative canatic. And I was thinking "Dude, yo= u beseeched us for feedback!" Since then I have stuck to my original m.o. = of moving on quietly when I encounter something I think is unjustifiably im= plausible. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1835 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49476 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 17:57:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 17:57:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 17:57:28 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c3f.2554ac15 (65097) for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:57:21 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212602241" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=4YkLpkNQ4ok6qoDhvIJ_nA2kM3DmXD5yvaYdQ0YgVelRffagdrpT X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212602241 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2008 12:38:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, gwidhiel@yahoo.com writes: And I was thinking "Dude, you beseeched us for feedback!" Since then I have stuck to my original m.o. of moving on quietly when I encounter something I think is unjustifiably implausible. I appreciate that point. If I feel like I can assist someone in doing a better job at what they are trying to do, I am willing to give detailed points. If I feel like the whole premise completely flies right by me, or even if it is simply something I could never read for pleasure, then I have to give it a pass. I guess I feel pain when people feel they must say: I could never read this or that plotline. I have a whole series of genres that I don't like to read, but I don't feel like it is necessary to list them every time a discussion like this comes up. I am certain I am being defensive (as one often is in a minority position), and this is not intended to be personally addressed to anyone, but slash is the genre that is most frequently mentioned specifically (followed by AU). I rarely see a posting that says, I cannot read angst or horror or coming-of-age or romance fics. But I do see the "I personally can't read slash" over and over. Also, on AU. That is a huge can of worms for me and I should not address it in great detail here. But I, for example, do not consider Pandemonium's stories AU. AU to me is when one changes the final outcome: Boromir lives, Feanor turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in the Ring War. AU is not the gapfillers that develops the background and missing details (even if differently than the way Tolkien would have) of the main storyline. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212602241 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/4/2008 12:38:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, gwidhiel@yahoo.com wri= tes:
And I was
thinking "Dude, you b= eseeched us for feedback!" Since then I have
stuck to my original m.o= . of moving on quietly when I encounter
something I think is unjustif= iably implausible.
I apprec= iate that point. If I feel like I can assist someone in doing a better job= at what they are trying to do, I am willing to give detailed points. If I= feel like the whole premise completely flies right by me, or even if it is= simply something I could never read for pleasure, then I have to give it = a pass.
 
I guess I feel pain when people feel= they must say: I could never read this or that plotline. I have = a whole series of genres that I don't like to read, but I don't feel like = it is necessary to list them every time a discussion like this comes up. I= am certain I am being defensive (as one often is in a minority position),= and this is not intended to be personally addressed to anyone, but slash = is the genre that is most frequently mentioned specifically (followed by A= U). I rarely see a posting that says, I cannot read angst or horror o= r coming-of-age or romance fics. But I do see the "I personally can't= read slash" over and over.
 
Also, on AU. That= is a huge can of worms for me and I should not address it in great detail= here. But I, for example, do not consider Pandemonium's stories AU. AU to= me is when one changes the final outcome: Boromir lives, Feanor turns ove= r the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in the Ring War. AU is not the gap= fillers that develops the background and missing details (even if different= ly than the way Tolkien would have) of the main storyline.


Get trade secrets for amazing burgers.= Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" = on AOL Food.
-------------------------------1212602241-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1836 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12668 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 18:04:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 18:04:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 18:04:35 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j37so124628waf.23 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 11:04:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.200.2 with SMTP id x2mr378893waf.79.1212602675483; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 11:04:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:04:35 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0806031402t6ea060ebn9ce8e8e479da7432@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12143_2570917.1212602675465" References: <3c715e1e0806031402t6ea060ebn9ce8e8e479da7432@mail.gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories? (was "Canon or Fanon?") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=HcgcWlfkttwcAfne0RJ3o6ib1BKa3a9rfP148adifYilluGuO1Kv X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_12143_2570917.1212602675465-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1837 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44959 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 18:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 18:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.130) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 18:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:26:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:26:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=NAMyhpWBsKO3fwYUrm_0MNYPi3Y3RC9dtynwrKaN3S8mGD8 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 > > > Yay! I'm not alone in my quirks! \0/ > > Yeah ... I'm with you, but = the usage is so common that it's probably > not really a reasonable assumpt= ion to make. You will excuse my mild amusement - honestly, I just picked a= quote at random ;P Out of interest I went and looked at The Book of Comm= on Prayer - same practice, I'm afraid... Although one only has to look at = c. 1700s gravestone inscriptions to realise both grammer and spelling were= pretty flexible! (Not that I'd ever recommend writing in that style. *Sh= udder*) If you want a(n) historical usage that will make your ears bleed, = try this: It is apparently permissible in some ME dialects to use 'thou' a= s a verb. Yowzers! Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1838 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2959 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 18:29:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 18:29:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 18:29:12 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d0d.349450cd (65097) for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:29:00 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212604139" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=kVT9p9jBWQlPv1cKQa44uLYN_pHv3dSZdKtpoxvIFH5WfWxe_3xU X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212604139 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is apparently permissible in some ME dialects to use 'thou' as a verb. Yowzers! Moreth Can you use that in a sentence, please? **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212604139 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
It is apparently permissible in some ME dialects to use 'thou' as a v= erb. Yowzers!

Moreth
 
Can yo= u use that in a sentence, please?
=
 



Get trade se= crets for amazing burgers. Watch "Coo= king with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
-------------------------------1212604139-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1839 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16486 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 18:32:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 18:32:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n28b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.247) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 18:32:19 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n28.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:32:19 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:32:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:32:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:32:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=nYz2XeopZo0bI6CzuNHn7WnUGSFR0fYa554DBSMXs_JDsLw X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 "I thou thee a harlot." (No personal ref. intended, just the example that = springs to mind!) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartof= oshun@... wrote: > > > It is apparently permissible in some ME dialects = to use 'thou' as a verb. > Yowzers! > > Moreth > > > Can you use tha= t in a sentence, please? > > > > > > > > **************Get trade sec= rets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Fo= od. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4? &NCID=3Daolfod00= 030000000002) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1840 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92089 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 18:34:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 18:34:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 18:34:25 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cf8.345ea65b (65097) for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:34:16 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212604456" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=1w-jN4E9MWqIUsZEzWO_56YSfJFRZwpcNtT_eP8Kx5Xqvspbumsh X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212604456 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2008 1:32:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, xjay2@hotmail.com writes: "I thou thee a harlot." (No personal ref. intended, just the example that springs to mind!) Yeah, I'll bet not. That is a good one. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212604456 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/4/2008 1:32:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, xjay2@hotmail.com write= s:
"I thou thee a harlot." (No = personal ref. intended, just the example
that springs to mind!)
Yeah, I'll bet not. That is= a good one.



Get trade s= ecrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Co= oking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
-------------------------------1212604456-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1841 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98342 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 18:38:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 18:38:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.136) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 18:38:08 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:38:08 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:38:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:38:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:38:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=ycj_Z9IJQkQ3N7DEOtzh9lUOGUh2HSxcICahiJdPmc-1uxE X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 It seems to have been mainly used in insults - sorry about that :P You did= ask... --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... = wrote: > > > In a message dated 6/4/2008 1:32:50 PM Eastern Standard Tim= e, > xjay2@... writes: > > "I thou thee a harlot." (No personal ref. in= tended, just the example > that springs to mind!) > > > Yeah, I'll bet= not. That is a good one. > > > > **************Get trade secrets for am= azing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. >= (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4? &NCID=3Daolfod0003000000000= 2) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1842 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47484 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 18:41:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 18:41:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.116) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 18:41:32 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:41:32 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:41:32 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:41:32 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:41:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=Ek6068NNzAc9sgyXwn8nzOd8_UKjBkfBT0gecK_Ul4UH1Sw X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > I guess I feel pain when people feel they must say: I could never read= this > or that plotline. I have a whole series of genres that I don't lik= e to read, > but I don't feel like it is necessary to list them every tim= e a discussion > like this comes up. Yes, I can see how that would be a= sensitive point. I am certain I am being defensive (as one often is in = a > minority position), and this is not intended to be personally address= ed to > anyone, but slash is the genre that is most frequently mentioned = specifically > (followed by AU). I rarely see a posting that says, I cann= ot read angst or horror > or coming-of-age or romance fics. Heh, if I h= ad to list one genre that I absolutely cannot read, it would be horror. Ju= st can't -- too squeamish and easily disturbed. But I do see the "I person= ally can't read > slash" over and over. I think it's okay for people to= say that, so long as it's just a statement of personal preference and not = a condemnation of the author/interested readership. When I say, "I cannot = read horror," there is no intended slight to the author or people who enjoy= horror stories -- and I *think* that people would be less likely to read a= n implied condemnation in my statement. Slash unfortunately is controversi= al beyond itself as a literary genre, so I'm not surprised that statements = of preference carry (or seem to carry) condemnation when rejecting slash st= ories. > Also, on AU. That is a huge can of worms for me and I should not = address it > in great detail here. But I, for example, do not consider Pa= ndemonium's > stories AU. AU to me is when one changes the final outcome:= Boromir lives, Feanor > turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs= in the Ring War. AU is not > the gapfillers that develops the background= and missing details (even if > differently than the way Tolkien would ha= ve) of the main storyline. > That's exactly how I view/define AU too. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1843 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73797 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 18:52:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 18:52:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.105) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 18:52:51 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 3295 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2008 18:52:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: uHvqslwVM1lc..H5UDPpIUSPUh0g70NtfTUN1EEB8hO65yeDPH3wA.kLaDEdBEjSkD435xKRqoYdOn6AwHEU.eg9JOkDXmTOm6Tpk90gSo05ehCLcTmeBA-- X-Received: from [24.66.94.140] by web25002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:52:50 BST Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 19:52:50 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <381000.3206.qm@web25002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Slash and what we won't read (WAS: Re: Stories Serving Canon) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=LnkLMjZOBqUd4WtpndJ8btshs5cPph3MI2PsbVptdgZJuvJutw X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: > I am certain I am being > defensive (as one often is in a > minority position), and this is not intended to be > personally addressed to > anyone, but slash is the genre that is most > frequently mentioned specifically > (followed by AU). I rarely see a posting that says, > I cannot read angst or horror > or coming-of-age or romance fics. But I do see the > "I personally can't read slash" over and over. I'll be on your side, Oshun. ;> I think we have a similar list of what we (usually) won't read. Mine begins with 'Aragorn'. But still I've tried a few stories about him and been pleasantly surprised. And I used to say I'd never read OFC het, but that's since changed and now I somehow find myself writing them. At the same time, I actively look for Elven AUs, and frequently come up disappointed. Those who loudly procliam, "I will never read X!" are missing out on good stories they'd probably enjoy, if only they gave some things a try. I think it's more common for people to say they won't read slash, though, becuse it's a far broader label than horror/romance/etc., and much easier to define. A writer's romance might be a reader's fluff, but it can always be categorised as het or slash. It's something a little more solid than simply a genre. One other thing I've thought about, and this is nitpicking: I think there's a vast difference between true slash (a story written to see two dudes get it on) and other fiction in which certain characters happen to be homosexual. True slash, to me, is a story about the relationship, written to showcase it. The plot of the story will be 'A and B start/continue their relationship,' usually with adult-rated results. Otherwise you have genre fiction with slash elements. Would you agree? > AU to me is when one changes the final > outcome: Boromir lives, Feanor > turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in > the Ring War. AU is not > the gapfillers that develops the background and > missing details (even if > differently than the way Tolkien would have) of the > main storyline. Fully agreeing with you here. I've had arguments with people over whether or not what I write is AU. Some say yes, absolutely, because everything in there is canonically improbable. I say no, not quite, because while things are improbable, they still do not absolutely clash with any canon facts. I'd call it pseudo-canon rather than AU. While it's highly unlikely that Oropher ever lived in Eithel Sirion, nowhere in any book does it say specifically that he did not. I save the AU label for stories that make obvious changes to canon fact and then explore those changes. Such as Celebrimbor making four Elven Rings instead of three, or Gil-galad never having been born. CGL __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1844 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16485 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 18:54:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 18:54:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.252) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 18:54:32 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:54:32 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:54:32 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 18:54:32 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:54:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=wnuVRq8ZWbmgE2LjoIG1EW8vxocdGZHoBRXE87v8Hd6z_Ok X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wro= te: > > It seems to have been mainly used in insults - sorry about that :P = > You did ask... > > That's so interesting! I wonder if it's because th= e speaker is essentially using the familiar form to name or label the other= -- thus the disparagement happens on multiple levels, both in the insultin= g term itself and in the condescending use of the familiar tense? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1845 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33464 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 19:03:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 19:03:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n32c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.10) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 19:03:46 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 19:03:46 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 19:03:46 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:03:45 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=EAotksQ3u5cfTNwM8XDyTqvh36qyGClakZEwxrjBqkg8YC0SRsnaKoP_ X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > > Also, on AU. That is a huge can of worms for me and I should not = address it > in great detail here. But I, for example, do not consider Pa= ndemonium's > stories AU. Ha! My acid test is "Would Tolkien roll over= in his grave?" AU is not > the gapfillers that develops the backgrou= nd and missing details (even if > differently than the way Tolkien would = have) of the main storyline. > Oh, no! I'm an engaging gap filler? Ack!= I'm going to have to work harder at heresy then. J/k. I understand the = point. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1846 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84903 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 19:12:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 19:12:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 19:12:48 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 52966 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2008 19:12:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ozhS1VcVM1nu0uVDjSUdTM3spu9c892IegK6flwLVIz_S75jLUdGEvH1BZv8IGotmjWv9Jy7xgBWjo.cQ_j1AlHc1axeBJdXJz5wNfTzFDshryhLpRiVMdM- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 12:12:47 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:12:47 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <381000.3206.qm@web25002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1230401833-1212606767=:52887" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <487129.52887.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Slash and what we won't read (WAS: Re: Stories Serving Canon) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=1uS8i_Ldnq0Va5i2xLzv_DBy1tr1c-jFHSzgif07eN1NTD5S4g X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1230401833-1212606767=:52887 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > AU to me is when one changes the final > outcome: Boromir lives, Feanor > turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in > the Ring War. AU is not > the gapfillers that develops the background and > missing details (even if > differently than the way Tolkien would have) of the > main storyline. Fully agreeing with you here. I've had arguments with people over whether or not what I write is AU. Some say yes, absolutely, because everything in there is canonically improbable. I say no, not quite, because while things are improbable, they still do not absolutely clash with any canon facts. I'd call it pseudo-canon rather than AU. While it's highly unlikely that Oropher ever lived in Eithel Sirion, nowhere in any book does it say specifically that he did not. I save the AU label for stories that make obvious changes to canon fact and then explore those changes. Such as Celebrimbor making four Elven Rings instead of three, or Gil-galad never having been born. One beef I have with AU writing (even though I write it) is the writer that uses it to change the world - for no reason other than they don't like something. Like the writer that has Elrohir and Elladan the same age as Aragorn in a story so they can write them all babies together or one that doesn't include Arwen as existing - just cause they don't like her. I got into an debate with someone over the fact that she had written a story where Haldir rescued Celebrian while Elrohir and Elladan acted like silly frat boys who then cowered in the bushes during the orc attack. When I politely pointed out the canon issues she changed it to AU and told me it was AU and that was her only reason. Since she wanted Haldir to be the hero, she changed it. Thats not AU. Thats just disregarding canon because you don't *like* canon. There are plenty of events that Haldir could have been the hero but she chose one that was already linked to two characters. Not to mention the fact that Celebrian's attack was thought to be the reason why the twins were the way they were. It probably wouldn't have bothered me if it hadn't been two of my favorite characters. Now adays I don't bother emailing people about those things. I just don't read or review it. CGL wrote: --- heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: > I am certain I am being > defensive (as one often is in a > minority position), and this is not intended to be > personally addressed to > anyone, but slash is the genre that is most > frequently mentioned specifically > (followed by AU). I rarely see a posting that says, > I cannot read angst or horror > or coming-of-age or romance fics. But I do see the > "I personally can't read slash" over and over. I'll be on your side, Oshun. ;> I think we have a similar list of what we (usually) won't read. Mine begins with 'Aragorn'. But still I've tried a few stories about him and been pleasantly surprised. And I used to say I'd never read OFC het, but that's since changed and now I somehow find myself writing them. At the same time, I actively look for Elven AUs, and frequently come up disappointed. Those who loudly procliam, "I will never read X!" are missing out on good stories they'd probably enjoy, if only they gave some things a try. I think it's more common for people to say they won't read slash, though, becuse it's a far broader label than horror/romance/etc., and much easier to define. A writer's romance might be a reader's fluff, but it can always be categorised as het or slash. It's something a little more solid than simply a genre. One other thing I've thought about, and this is nitpicking: I think there's a vast difference between true slash (a story written to see two dudes get it on) and other fiction in which certain characters happen to be homosexual. True slash, to me, is a story about the relationship, written to showcase it. The plot of the story will be 'A and B start/continue their relationship,' usually with adult-rated results. Otherwise you have genre fiction with slash elements. Would you agree? > AU to me is when one changes the final > outcome: Boromir lives, Feanor > turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in > the Ring War. AU is not > the gapfillers that develops the background and > missing details (even if > differently than the way Tolkien would have) of the > main storyline. Fully agreeing with you here. I've had arguments with people over whether or not what I write is AU. Some say yes, absolutely, because everything in there is canonically improbable. I say no, not quite, because while things are improbable, they still do not absolutely clash with any canon facts. I'd call it pseudo-canon rather than AU. While it's highly unlikely that Oropher ever lived in Eithel Sirion, nowhere in any book does it say specifically that he did not. I save the AU label for stories that make obvious changes to canon fact and then explore those changes. Such as Celebrimbor making four Elven Rings instead of three, or Gil-galad never having been born. CGL __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1230401833-1212606767=:52887 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> AU to me is when one changes the final
> outcome: Boromir lives, Feanor
> turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in
> the Ring War. AU is not
> the gapfillers that develops the background and
> missing details (even if
> differently than the way Tolkien would have) of the
> main storyline.

Fully agreeing with you here. I've had arguments with
people over whether or not what I write is AU. Some
say yes, absolutely, because everything in there is
canonically improbable. I say no, not quite, because
while things are improbable, they still do not
absolutely clash with any canon facts. I'd call it
pseudo-canon rather than AU. While it's highly
unlikely that Oropher ever lived in Eithel Sirion,
nowhere in any book does it say specifically that he
did not.

I save the AU label for stories that make obvious
changes to canon fact and then explore those changes.
Such as Celebrimbor making four Elven Rings instead of
three, or Gil-galad never having been born.

One beef I have with AU writing (even though I write it) is the writer that uses it to change the world - for no reason other than they don't like something. Like the writer that has Elrohir and Elladan the same age as Aragorn in a story so they can write them all babies together or one that doesn't include Arwen as existing - just cause they don't like her. I got into an debate with someone over the fact that she had written a story where Haldir rescued Celebrian while Elrohir and Elladan acted like silly frat boys who then cowered in the bushes during the orc attack. When I politely pointed out the canon issues she changed it to AU and told me it was AU and that was her only reason. Since she wanted Haldir to be the hero, she changed it. Thats not AU. Thats just disregarding canon because you don't *like* canon. There are plenty of events that Haldir could have been the hero but she chose one that was already linked to two characters. Not to mention the fact that Celebrian's attack was thought to be the reason why the twins were the way they were.
 
It probably wouldn't have bothered me if it hadn't been two of my favorite characters. Now adays I don't bother emailing people about those things. I just don't read or review it.
 
 

CGL wrote:

--- heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
> I am certain I am being
> defensive (as one often is in a
> minority position), and this is not intended to be
> personally addressed to
> anyone, but slash is the genre that is most
> frequently mentioned specifically
> (followed by AU). I rarely see a posting that says,
> I cannot read angst or horror
> or coming-of-age or romance fics. But I do see the
> "I personally can't read slash" over and over.

I'll be on your side, Oshun. ;> I think we have a
similar list of what we (usually) won't read. Mine
begins with 'Aragorn'. But still I've tried a few
stories about him and been pleasantly surprised. And
I used to say I'd never read OFC het, but that's since
changed and now I somehow find myself writing them.
At the same time, I actively look for Elven AUs, and
frequently come up disappointed. Those who loudly
procliam, "I will never read X!" are missing out on
good stories they'd probably enjoy, if only they gave
some things a try.

I think it's more common for people to say they won't
read slash, though, becuse it's a far broader label
than horror/romance/etc., and much easier to define.
A writer's romance might be a reader's fluff, but it
can always be categorised as het or slash. It's
something a little more solid than simply a genre.

One other thing I've thought about, and this is
nitpicking: I think there's a vast difference between
true slash (a story written to see two dudes get it
on) and other fiction in which certain characters
happen to be homosexual. True slash, to me, is a
story about the relationship, written to showcase it.
The plot of the story will be 'A and B start/continue
their relationship,' usually with adult-rated results.
Otherwise you have genre fiction with slash elements.
Would you agree?

> AU to me is when one changes the final
> outcome: Boromir lives, Feanor
> turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in
> the Ring War. AU is not
> the gapfillers that develops the background and
> missing details (even if
> differently than the way Tolkien would have) of the
> main storyline.

Fully agreeing with you here. I've had arguments with
people over whether or not what I write is AU. Some
say yes, absolutely, because everything in there is
canonically improbable. I say no, not quite, because
while things are improbable, they still do not
absolutely clash with any canon facts. I'd call it
pseudo-canon rather than AU. While it's highly
unlikely that Oropher ever lived in Eithel Sirion,
nowhere in any book does it say specifically that he
did not.

I save the AU label for stories that make obvious
changes to canon fact and then explore those changes.
Such as Celebrimbor making four Elven Rings instead of
three, or Gil-galad never having been born.

CGL

__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1230401833-1212606767=:52887-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1847 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82579 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 19:15:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 19:15:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 19:15:10 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 19:15:10 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 19:15:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 19:15:10 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:15:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=TbUkM-Dg5yaM9AQ3fELhe9xONYxPPAs72Fl5LDaI3LJOtt4 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 The whole slash controversy is a can of worms I don't want to open without= a... well ever! It did make me wonder about the way genres are defined in= fanfic communities. I mean, if I want to find Mary Renault's 'Alexander = Trilogy' I don't go and look for 'Slash' in my local bookstore, I look for= 'Historal Novels'! So a newbie wonders - why so many rules and regulation= s in fanfic? I can see that some may be a useful 'heads-up' warning (like= putting the hard-core PWP erotic stuff in a seperate section of the book= store). (It's not causing me any grief, so I'll cheerfully check the litt= le boxes - but posts like this do make me ponder life, the universe and e= verything...) Almost all fanfic (if it was published) would be shovelled i= nto a generic 'Fantasy' category in Blackwell's Bookstore! I suspect the = regs are fulfilling a different role then a bookstore's shelves. I suspect= it is an attempt by the internet communities to self-regulate. And that i= s an interesting question unto itself! I'll quit blathering now. (*Tries t= o remember that I do not need to deconstruct the universe, I merely need t= o live in it...*) Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com= , "Gwidhiel" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yah= oogroups.com, heartofoshun@ wrote: > > > > I guess I feel pain when peop= le feel they must say: I could never > read this > > or that plotline. I = have a whole series of genres that I don't like > to read, > > but I don= 't feel like it is necessary to list them every time a > discussion > > l= ike this comes up. > > Yes, I can see how that would be a sensitive point= . > > > I am certain I am being defensive (as one often is in a > > mi= nority position), and this is not intended to be personally > addressed to = > > anyone, but slash is the genre that is most frequently mentioned > sp= ecifically > > (followed by AU). I rarely see a posting that says, I cann= ot read > angst or horror > > or coming-of-age or romance fics. > > Heh= , if I had to list one genre that I absolutely cannot read, it > would be h= orror. Just can't -- too squeamish and easily disturbed. > > But I do see= the "I personally can't read > > slash" over and over. > > I think it'= s okay for people to say that, so long as it's just a > statement of person= al preference and not a condemnation of the > author/interested readership.= When I say, "I cannot read horror," > there is no intended slight to the = author or people who enjoy horror > stories -- and I *think* that people wo= uld be less likely to read an > implied condemnation in my statement. Slas= h unfortunately is > controversial beyond itself as a literary genre, so I'= m not surprised > that statements of preference carry (or seem to carry) c= ondemnation > when rejecting slash stories. > > > Also, on AU. That is a h= uge can of worms for me and I should not > address it > > in great detail= here. But I, for example, do not consider Pandemonium's > > stories AU.= AU to me is when one changes the final outcome: Boromir > lives, Feanor = > > turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in the Ring War. > AU= is not > > the gapfillers that develops the background and missing detai= ls > (even if > > differently than the way Tolkien would have) of the mai= n storyline. > > > That's exactly how I view/define AU too. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1848 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20705 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 19:20:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 19:20:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 19:20:32 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 51185 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2008 19:20:32 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 4yQIqYwVM1nsvWey9gZXwMt2RFVjzI6fK.rsjCLEY1bK6UAhYsX02I9rYTjqlgr2xBkiez6CcntNu0AdRfrRA54PJckCPxIeWmpC_g0x6aUhy4xoZJNFnMU- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 12:20:31 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:20:31 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1280373203-1212607231=:99269" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <50563.99269.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=ZooemQlgxulS2rgxyKHA_X15P7Ukf2pIN7hg5CU36toiNvVjTA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1280373203-1212607231=:99269 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit IMO Slash became a taboo thing when Mary Sue did. When FF.net and AFF.net was flooded with Mary Sue's, bad slash, and MPRG - people forgot that it is possible to write good slash just as as it is possible to write good het. Just as some people think that OFC = Mary Sue. I hear just as often, "I won't read Mary Sues" and people proclaiming that their character is NOT a Mary Sue as I do "I won't read slash". And let's be honest, Tolkien wrote the biggest Mary Sue of all with Luthien. moreth00 wrote: The whole slash controversy is a can of worms I don't want to open without a... well ever! It did make me wonder about the way genres are defined in fanfic communities. I mean, if I want to find Mary Renault's 'Alexander Trilogy' I don't go and look for 'Slash' in my local bookstore, I look for 'Historal Novels'! So a newbie wonders - why so many rules and regulations in fanfic? I can see that some may be a useful 'heads-up' warning (like putting the hard-core PWP erotic stuff in a seperate section of the bookstore). (It's not causing me any grief, so I'll cheerfully check the little boxes - but posts like this do make me ponder life, the universe and everything...) Almost all fanfic (if it was published) would be shovelled into a generic 'Fantasy' category in Blackwell's Bookstore! I suspect the regs are fulfilling a different role then a bookstore's shelves. I suspect it is an attempt by the internet communities to self-regulate. And that is an interesting question unto itself! I'll quit blathering now. (*Tries to remember that I do not need to deconstruct the universe, I merely need to live in it...*) Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Gwidhiel" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@ wrote: > > > > I guess I feel pain when people feel they must say: I could never > read this > > or that plotline. I have a whole series of genres that I don't like > to read, > > but I don't feel like it is necessary to list them every time a > discussion > > like this comes up. > > Yes, I can see how that would be a sensitive point. > > > I am certain I am being defensive (as one often is in a > > minority position), and this is not intended to be personally > addressed to > > anyone, but slash is the genre that is most frequently mentioned > specifically > > (followed by AU). I rarely see a posting that says, I cannot read > angst or horror > > or coming-of-age or romance fics. > > Heh, if I had to list one genre that I absolutely cannot read, it > would be horror. Just can't -- too squeamish and easily disturbed. > > But I do see the "I personally can't read > > slash" over and over. > > I think it's okay for people to say that, so long as it's just a > statement of personal preference and not a condemnation of the > author/interested readership. When I say, "I cannot read horror," > there is no intended slight to the author or people who enjoy horror > stories -- and I *think* that people would be less likely to read an > implied condemnation in my statement. Slash unfortunately is > controversial beyond itself as a literary genre, so I'm not surprised > that statements of preference carry (or seem to carry) condemnation > when rejecting slash stories. > > > Also, on AU. That is a huge can of worms for me and I should not > address it > > in great detail here. But I, for example, do not consider Pandemonium's > > stories AU. AU to me is when one changes the final outcome: Boromir > lives, Feanor > > turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in the Ring War. > AU is not > > the gapfillers that develops the background and missing details > (even if > > differently than the way Tolkien would have) of the main storyline. > > > That's exactly how I view/define AU too. > ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1280373203-1212607231=:99269 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit IMO Slash became a taboo thing when Mary Sue did. When FF.net and AFF.net was flooded with Mary Sue's, bad slash, and MPRG - people forgot that it is possible to write good slash just as as it is possible to write good het. Just as some people think that OFC = Mary Sue. I hear just as often, "I won't read Mary Sues" and people proclaiming that their character is NOT a Mary Sue as I do "I won't read slash".  And let's be honest, Tolkien wrote the biggest Mary Sue of all with Luthien.

moreth00 wrote:

The whole slash controversy is a can of worms I don't want to open
without a... well ever!

It did make me wonder about the way genres are defined in fanfic
communities. I mean, if I want to find Mary Renault's 'Alexander
Trilogy' I don't go and look for 'Slash' in my local bookstore, I
look for 'Historal Novels'! So a newbie wonders - why so many rules
and regulations in fanfic?

I can see that some may be a useful 'heads-up' warning (like putting
the hard-core PWP erotic stuff in a seperate section of the
bookstore).

(It's not causing me any grief, so I'll cheerfully check the little
boxes - but posts like this do make me ponder life, the universe and
everything...)

Almost all fanfic (if it was published) would be shovelled into a
generic 'Fantasy' category in Blackwell's Bookstore!

I suspect the regs are fulfilling a different role then a bookstore's
shelves. I suspect it is an attempt by the internet communities to
self-regulate. And that is an interesting question unto itself!

I'll quit blathering now. (*Tries to remember that I do not need to
deconstruct the universe, I merely need to live in it...*)

Moreth

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Gwidhiel"
.> wrote:
>
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@
wrote:
> >
> > I guess I feel pain when people feel they must say: I could never
> read this
> > or that plotline. I have a whole series of genres that I don't
like
> to read,
> > but I don't feel like it is necessary to list them every time a
> discussion
> > like this comes up.
>
> Yes, I can see how that would be a sensitive point.
>
>
> I am certain I am being defensive (as one often is in a
> > minority position), and this is not intended to be personally
> addressed to
> > anyone, but slash is the genre that is most frequently mentioned
> specifically
> > (followed by AU). I rarely see a posting that says, I cannot read
> angst or horror
> > or coming-of-age or romance fics.
>
> Heh, if I had to list one genre that I absolutely cannot read, it
> would be horror. Just can't -- too squeamish and easily disturbed.
>
> But I do see the "I personally can't read
> > slash" over and over.
>
> I think it's okay for people to say that, so long as it's just a
> statement of personal preference and not a condemnation of the
> author/interested readership. When I say, "I cannot read horror,"
> there is no intended slight to the author or people who enjoy horror
> stories -- and I *think* that people would be less likely to read an
> implied condemnation in my statement. Slash unfortunately is
> controversial beyond itself as a literary genre, so I'm not
surprised
> that statements of preference carry (or seem to carry) condemnation
> when rejecting slash stories.
>
> > Also, on AU. That is a huge can of worms for me and I should not
> address it
> > in great detail here. But I, for example, do not consider
Pandemonium's
> > stories AU. AU to me is when one changes the final outcome:
Boromir
> lives, Feanor
> > turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in the Ring War.
> AU is not
> > the gapfillers that develops the background and missing details
> (even if
> > differently than the way Tolkien would have) of the main
storyline.
> >
> That's exactly how I view/define AU too.
>




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1280373203-1212607231=:99269-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1849 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12200 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 19:36:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 19:36:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n49a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.143) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 19:36:37 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n49.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 19:36:37 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 19:36:37 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 19:36:37 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:36:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Whence Trivia (was: OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=RyMf7B6vl9z3kUqekrVBfL8r8oL4vj6sCsPY7YSbmqz49IM X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 You know - I'm wondering if it's an Anglicised version of French? Although= I'm merely hypothesing from a point of almost total ignorance here... T= he reason behind such conjecture being that it's not (AFAIK) a northern us= age (where 'tha', 'thee' etc still occur in colloquial speech) so if it's = a southern form of insult, yes - that derogatory familiar would hit hard! = Sadly I have no knowledge of medieval french insults (how can my educatio= n be so lacking???) - any scholar out there who does? Moreth --- In Silma= rillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Gwidhiel" wrote: > > = --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" > wrot= e: > > > > It seems to have been mainly used in insults - sorry about that = :P > > You did ask... > > > > > > > That's so interesting! I wonder if = it's because the speaker is > essentially using the familiar form to name o= r label the other -- thus > the disparagement happens on multiple levels, b= oth in the insulting > term itself and in the condescending use of the fami= liar tense? > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1850 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70697 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 19:54:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 19:54:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 19:54:47 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 19:54:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 19:54:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 19:54:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:54:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=9VjfOdYN_Lz4ThyAIyxNOwhrI34db4m3mRe_umpoS2Iu3jg X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 *Pats Pandemonium in sympathy* I am certain Tolkien is at least a little p= erturbed by 'The Apprentice' et al... On the other hand, not only am I a= big fan of the 'reader-theory' school of thought, Tolkien also wanted to = create a 'mythology'. I would say fanfic is a likely the outcome of that d= esire ;D Be careful what you wish for... Moreth --- In SilmarillionWrit= ersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > -= -- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@ wrote: > > >= > > > > > Also, on AU. That is a huge can of worms for me and I should= not > address it > > in great detail here. But I, for example, do not co= nsider Pandemonium's > > stories AU. > > Ha! My acid test is "Would T= olkien roll over in his grave?" > > > AU is not > > the gapfillers th= at develops the background and missing details > (even if > > differently = than the way Tolkien would have) of the main storyline. > > > > Oh, no= ! I'm an engaging gap filler? Ack! I'm going to have to work > harder at = heresy then. > > J/k. I understand the point. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1851 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21781 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 20:16:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 20:16:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.127) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 20:16:08 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 20:16:08 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 20:16:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2008 20:16:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:16:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <50563.99269.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=YWBMucM-mrYdIAZa1eFyU1a8iobJ-zv9R0ISkCRD9WUReDo X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 Hmmm - I get the point re slash. My question about 'why the detailed regul= ations of story genre' remains. Maybe it is derived from publishing categ= ories which we, *the public*, never see? Now I have another question: W= hy is it so horrible to write a Mary-Sue (and I agree that Luthien is just= a little too perfect ;P) but no-one complains about 'Joey- Bill'? In fact,= what do you call the perfect, handsome, heroic, 'I wish I was them' male = character? Or is it so common an occurance, everyone takes it for granted?= I poke that one out there on the end of a pointy stick... perfect males = are acceptable when perfect females are not? (And yes, the best stories of= c involve more realistic characters. But it seems the militant fervour is = always vs. female ones.) Doubtless I am re-hashing stuff that has been pre= viously debated to death - just direct me to the relevant thread if so ;P = Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > IMO Slash became a taboo thing when Mary Sue did. Wh= en FF.net and AFF.net was flooded with Mary Sue's, bad slash, and MPRG - p= eople forgot that it is possible to write good slash just as as it is pos= sible to write good het. Just as some people think that OFC =3D Mary Sue. = I hear just as often, "I won't read Mary Sues" and people proclaiming that= their character is NOT a Mary Sue as I do "I won't read slash". And let'= s be honest, Tolkien wrote the biggest Mary Sue of all with Luthien. > >= moreth00 wrote: The whole slash controversy is a can= of worms I don't want to open > without a... well ever! > > It did make = me wonder about the way genres are defined in fanfic > communities. I mean= , if I want to find Mary Renault's 'Alexander > Trilogy' I don't go and lo= ok for 'Slash' in my local bookstore, I > look for 'Historal Novels'! So a= newbie wonders - why so many rules > and regulations in fanfic? > > I c= an see that some may be a useful 'heads-up' warning (like putting > the h= ard-core PWP erotic stuff in a seperate section of the > bookstore). > >= (It's not causing me any grief, so I'll cheerfully check the little > box= es - but posts like this do make me ponder life, the universe and > every= thing...) > > Almost all fanfic (if it was published) would be shovelled i= nto a > generic 'Fantasy' category in Blackwell's Bookstore! > > I suspec= t the regs are fulfilling a different role then a bookstore's > shelves. = I suspect it is an attempt by the internet communities to > self-regulate.= And that is an interesting question unto itself! > > I'll quit blathering= now. (*Tries to remember that I do not need to > deconstruct the universe= , I merely need to live in it...*) > > Moreth > > --- In SilmarillionWrit= ersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Gwidhiel" > wrote: > > > > --- In S= ilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@ > wrote: > > > > >= > I guess I feel pain when people feel they must say: I could never > > = read this > > > or that plotline. I have a whole series of genres that I d= on't > like > > to read, > > > but I don't feel like it is necessary to l= ist them every time a > > discussion > > > like this comes up. > > > > Y= es, I can see how that would be a sensitive point. > > > > > > I am cert= ain I am being defensive (as one often is in a > > > minority position), a= nd this is not intended to be personally > > addressed to > > > anyone, bu= t slash is the genre that is most frequently mentioned > > specifically > = > > (followed by AU). I rarely see a posting that says, I cannot read > > = angst or horror > > > or coming-of-age or romance fics. > > > > Heh, if = I had to list one genre that I absolutely cannot read, it > > would be horr= or. Just can't -- too squeamish and easily disturbed. > > > > But I do see= the "I personally can't read > > > slash" over and over. > > > > I thin= k it's okay for people to say that, so long as it's just a > > statement of= personal preference and not a condemnation of the > > author/interested re= adership. When I say, "I cannot read horror," > > there is no intended slig= ht to the author or people who enjoy horror > > stories -- and I *think* t= hat people would be less likely to read an > > implied condemnation in my = statement. Slash unfortunately is > > controversial beyond itself as a lite= rary genre, so I'm not > surprised > > that statements of preference carry= (or seem to carry) condemnation > > when rejecting slash stories. > > > = > > Also, on AU. That is a huge can of worms for me and I should not > > ad= dress it > > > in great detail here. But I, for example, do not consider = > Pandemonium's > > > stories AU. AU to me is when one changes the final o= utcome: > Boromir > > lives, Feanor > > > turns over the Silmarils gladly= , Sauron triumphs in the Ring War. > > AU is not > > > the gapfillers tha= t develops the background and missing details > > (even if > > > different= ly than the way Tolkien would have) of the main > storyline. > > > > > Th= at's exactly how I view/define AU too. > > > > > > = > > > ~~**~~ > Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye > A Kat with many n= ames....still won't come when you call her > > http://ksouza.avonreprese= ntative.com/ > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1852 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87819 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 20:29:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 20:29:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.97) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 20:29:09 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 73554 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2008 20:29:09 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Z_cIFnUVM1mBYYjZ59464Shh30tO1d6EjbeyeRtZpzOnUvqkoLJAB_ILiC9.AjgOg9mSBklmmdXynsNDmGxQ42gf5NPYB671Udta08cmT7atN18DHPGx5jQ- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:29:09 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:29:09 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-944155317-1212611349=:71680" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <82670.71680.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=V0H0sGjTNS5uxEAqZ_9QBX-yOXsgXcGNPCFCJcqcWgVSoiZbPA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-944155317-1212611349=:71680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just never claim that I don't write a Mary Sue so no one can say later she was and I said she wasn't lol I don't think she is but its always open to interpretation. And a lot of the canon characters I write are pretty darn near perfect. (not to be confused with perfectly written of course lol) Mary Sue and Gary Stu or whatever are all through Tolkien fiction therefore it will be in Tolkien fanfiction. If you write an engaging story with a likable OFC, it doesn't really matter if some people say she's a Mary Sue in my opinion. And I don't know about story genre. If someone is a 'slash writer' and writes a non-romantic story, is it still considered slash? moreth00 wrote: Hmmm - I get the point re slash. My question about 'why the detailed regulations of story genre' remains. Maybe it is derived from publishing categories which we, *the public*, never see? Now I have another question: Why is it so horrible to write a Mary-Sue (and I agree that Luthien is just a little too perfect ;P) but no-one complains about 'Joey- Bill'? In fact, what do you call the perfect, handsome, heroic, 'I wish I was them' male character? Or is it so common an occurance, everyone takes it for granted? I poke that one out there on the end of a pointy stick... perfect males are acceptable when perfect females are not? (And yes, the best stories ofc involve more realistic characters. But it seems the militant fervour is always vs. female ones.) Doubtless I am re-hashing stuff that has been previously debated to death - just direct me to the relevant thread if so ;P Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > IMO Slash became a taboo thing when Mary Sue did. When FF.net and AFF.net was flooded with Mary Sue's, bad slash, and MPRG - people forgot that it is possible to write good slash just as as it is possible to write good het. Just as some people think that OFC = Mary Sue. I hear just as often, "I won't read Mary Sues" and people proclaiming that their character is NOT a Mary Sue as I do "I won't read slash". And let's be honest, Tolkien wrote the biggest Mary Sue of all with Luthien. > > moreth00 wrote: The whole slash controversy is a can of worms I don't want to open > without a... well ever! > > It did make me wonder about the way genres are defined in fanfic > communities. I mean, if I want to find Mary Renault's 'Alexander > Trilogy' I don't go and look for 'Slash' in my local bookstore, I > look for 'Historal Novels'! So a newbie wonders - why so many rules > and regulations in fanfic? > > I can see that some may be a useful 'heads-up' warning (like putting > the hard-core PWP erotic stuff in a seperate section of the > bookstore). > > (It's not causing me any grief, so I'll cheerfully check the little > boxes - but posts like this do make me ponder life, the universe and > everything...) > > Almost all fanfic (if it was published) would be shovelled into a > generic 'Fantasy' category in Blackwell's Bookstore! > > I suspect the regs are fulfilling a different role then a bookstore's > shelves. I suspect it is an attempt by the internet communities to > self-regulate. And that is an interesting question unto itself! > > I'll quit blathering now. (*Tries to remember that I do not need to > deconstruct the universe, I merely need to live in it...*) > > Moreth > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Gwidhiel" > wrote: > > > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@ > wrote: > > > > > > I guess I feel pain when people feel they must say: I could never > > read this > > > or that plotline. I have a whole series of genres that I don't > like > > to read, > > > but I don't feel like it is necessary to list them every time a > > discussion > > > like this comes up. > > > > Yes, I can see how that would be a sensitive point. > > > > > > I am certain I am being defensive (as one often is in a > > > minority position), and this is not intended to be personally > > addressed to > > > anyone, but slash is the genre that is most frequently mentioned > > specifically > > > (followed by AU). I rarely see a posting that says, I cannot read > > angst or horror > > > or coming-of-age or romance fics. > > > > Heh, if I had to list one genre that I absolutely cannot read, it > > would be horror. Just can't -- too squeamish and easily disturbed. > > > > But I do see the "I personally can't read > > > slash" over and over. > > > > I think it's okay for people to say that, so long as it's just a > > statement of personal preference and not a condemnation of the > > author/interested readership. When I say, "I cannot read horror," > > there is no intended slight to the author or people who enjoy horror > > stories -- and I *think* that people would be less likely to read an > > implied condemnation in my statement. Slash unfortunately is > > controversial beyond itself as a literary genre, so I'm not > surprised > > that statements of preference carry (or seem to carry) condemnation > > when rejecting slash stories. > > > > > Also, on AU. That is a huge can of worms for me and I should not > > address it > > > in great detail here. But I, for example, do not consider > Pandemonium's > > > stories AU. AU to me is when one changes the final outcome: > Boromir > > lives, Feanor > > > turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in the Ring War. > > AU is not > > > the gapfillers that develops the background and missing details > > (even if > > > differently than the way Tolkien would have) of the main > storyline. > > > > > That's exactly how I view/define AU too. > > > > > > > > > ~~**~~ > Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye > A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her > > http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ > ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-944155317-1212611349=:71680 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I just never claim that I don't write a Mary Sue so no one can say later she was and I said she wasn't lol I don't think she is but its always open to interpretation. And a lot of the canon characters I write are pretty darn near perfect. (not to be confused with perfectly written of course lol) Mary Sue and Gary Stu or whatever are all through Tolkien fiction therefore it will be in Tolkien fanfiction. If you write an engaging story with a likable OFC, it doesn't really matter if some people say she's a Mary Sue in my opinion.
 
And I don't know about story genre. If someone is a 'slash writer' and writes a non-romantic story, is it still considered slash?

moreth00 wrote:
Hmmm - I get the point re slash. My question about 'why the detailed
regulations of story genre' remains.

Maybe it is derived from publishing categories which we, *the
public*, never see?

Now I have another question:

Why is it so horrible to write a Mary-Sue (and I agree that Luthien
is just a little too perfect ;P) but no-one complains about 'Joey-
Bill'? In fact, what do you call the perfect, handsome, heroic, 'I
wish I was them' male character? Or is it so common an occurance,
everyone takes it for granted?

I poke that one out there on the end of a pointy stick... perfect
males are acceptable when perfect females are not?

(And yes, the best stories ofc involve more realistic characters. But
it seems the militant fervour is always vs. female ones.)

Doubtless I am re-hashing stuff that has been previously debated to
death - just direct me to the relevant thread if so ;P

Moreth

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7
...> wrote:
>
> IMO Slash became a taboo thing when Mary Sue did. When FF.net and
AFF.net was flooded with Mary Sue's, bad slash, and MPRG - people
forgot that it is possible to write good slash just as as it is
possible to write good het. Just as some people think that OFC = Mary
Sue. I hear just as often, "I won't read Mary Sues" and people
proclaiming that their character is NOT a Mary Sue as I do "I won't
read slash". And let's be honest, Tolkien wrote the biggest Mary Sue
of all with Luthien.
>
> moreth00 wrote: The whole slash controversy is
a can of worms I don't want to open
> without a... well ever!
>
> It did make me wonder about the way genres are defined in fanfic
> communities. I mean, if I want to find Mary Renault's 'Alexander
> Trilogy' I don't go and look for 'Slash' in my local bookstore, I
> look for 'Historal Novels'! So a newbie wonders - why so many rules
> and regulations in fanfic?
>
> I can see that some may be a useful 'heads-up' warning (like
putting
> the hard-core PWP erotic stuff in a seperate section of the
> bookstore).
>
> (It's not causing me any grief, so I'll cheerfully check the little
> boxes - but posts like this do make me ponder life, the universe
and
> everything...)
>
> Almost all fanfic (if it was published) would be shovelled into a
> generic 'Fantasy' category in Blackwell's Bookstore!
>
> I suspect the regs are fulfilling a different role then a
bookstore's
> shelves. I suspect it is an attempt by the internet communities to
> self-regulate. And that is an interesting question unto itself!
>
> I'll quit blathering now. (*Tries to remember that I do not need to
> deconstruct the universe, I merely need to live in it...*)
>
> Moreth
>
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Gwidhiel"
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I guess I feel pain when people feel they must say: I could
never
> > read this
> > > or that plotline. I have a whole series of genres that I don't
> like
> > to read,
> > > but I don't feel like it is necessary to list them every time a
> > discussion
> > > like this comes up.
> >
> > Yes, I can see how that would be a sensitive point.
> >
> >
> > I am certain I am being defensive (as one often is in a
> > > minority position), and this is not intended to be personally
> > addressed to
> > > anyone, but slash is the genre that is most frequently mentioned
> > specifically
> > > (followed by AU). I rarely see a posting that says, I cannot
read
> > angst or horror
> > > or coming-of-age or romance fics.
> >
> > Heh, if I had to list one genre that I absolutely cannot read, it
> > would be horror. Just can't -- too squeamish and easily disturbed.
> >
> > But I do see the "I personally can't read
> > > slash" over and over.
> >
> > I think it's okay for people to say that, so long as it's just a
> > statement of personal preference and not a condemnation of the
> > author/interested readership. When I say, "I cannot read horror,"
> > there is no intended slight to the author or people who enjoy
horror
> > stories -- and I *think* that people would be less likely to read
an
> > implied condemnation in my statement. Slash unfortunately is
> > controversial beyond itself as a literary genre, so I'm not
> surprised
> > that statements of preference carry (or seem to carry)
condemnation
> > when rejecting slash stories.
> >
> > > Also, on AU. That is a huge can of worms for me and I should not
> > address it
> > > in great detail here. But I, for example, do not consider
> Pandemonium's
> > > stories AU. AU to me is when one changes the final outcome:
> Boromir
> > lives, Feanor
> > > turns over the Silmarils gladly, Sauron triumphs in the Ring
War.
> > AU is not
> > > the gapfillers that develops the background and missing details
> > (even if
> > > differently than the way Tolkien would have) of the main
> storyline.
> > >
> > That's exactly how I view/define AU too.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~**~~
> Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
> A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
>
> http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/
>




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-944155317-1212611349=:71680-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1853 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88795 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 20:31:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 20:31:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.98) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 20:31:24 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 19237 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2008 20:31:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Mh7K2OUVM1nvByd.OWSvJLrKsNKXD7cscM.MrFIDv_XKkk87yEKu_GvbR2puzwXJgpV5v0A86jfqBetWhD9UGx68jyP66mcP6Mnad3yWMby86iH2Qj0tC8s- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:31:23 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:31:23 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , lotr-research@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1966146371-1212611483=:18995" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <739185.18995.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Stories of Arda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=08ThP13kCcBNgWmZIrpIy3eJ-BlP4aymU8xvIca80kcgwI7Rjw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1966146371-1212611483=:18995 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Below is the post by Nilmandra a little while ago.... The site may be accessed by going to http://storiesofard a.com or http://stories. storiesofarda. com Same site, same database, just a slightly different address. You may post stories, reviews etc without worrying about them disappearing. For now, update your links for SoA to one of those addresses. The usual home page (http://www.storieso farda.com) will stay pointing to a dead IP until we decide what to do or if this new address is our permanent solution. Feel free to let other readers and authors know how to access the site. As many of you know, I have been quite sick and I just don't have the patience or energy to deal with updating search engines and all the other stuff we'd have to do right now. So word of mouth will be needed to let people know how to access the site for now. Just FYI - the site has been under attack, but they have been 100% UN-successful. They're just annoying the heck out of us. If you get an error message, let me know. A lot of very tight code to prevent hacking has been added recently that could get you a 'You cannot Pass!' error, and it is possible there might be hard coded pages looking for the www in the address, which will give you a dead page. Send me a private email, please, with a screen shot or all the detail you can provide about what error you received. Screen shots are best, make sure we can see the URL. Thanks Nilmandra ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1966146371-1212611483=:18995 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Below is the post by Nilmandra a little while ago....
 

The site may be accessed by going to

http://storiesofard a.com

or

http://stories. storiesofarda. com


Same site, same database, just a slightly different address. You may
post stories, reviews etc without worrying about them disappearing.
For now, update your links for SoA to one of those addresses. The
usual home page (http://www.storieso farda.com) will stay pointing to a
dead IP until we decide what to do or if this new address is our
permanent solution. Feel free to let other readers and authors know
how to access the site. As many of you know, I have been quite sick
and I just don't have the patience or energy to deal with updating
search engines and all the other stuff we'd have to do right now. So
word of mouth will be needed to let people know how to access the site
for now.

Just FYI - the site has been under attack, but they have been 100%
UN-successful. They're just annoying the heck out of us.

If you get an error message, let me know. A lot of very tight code to
prevent hacking has been added recently that could get you a 'You
cannot Pass!' error, and it is possible there might be hard coded
pages looking for the www in the address, which will give you a dead
page. Send me a private email, please, with a screen shot or all the
detail you can provide about what error you received. Screen shots
are best, make sure we can see the URL.

Thanks
Nilmandra


~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1966146371-1212611483=:18995-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1854 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31613 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 20:53:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 20:53:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 20:53:37 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B485804A for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 22:53:38 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 22:53:38 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 22:53:34 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <568688429.20080604225334@tlen.pl> To: moreth00 In-Reply-To: References: <50563.99269.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ZJptBxv9t4UBjypLO19Zqp248UV0w4dlShbbtS25cZ-1ljAHDRg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Moreth, m> Why is it so horrible to write a Mary-Sue (...) but no-one complains about 'Joey- m> Bill'? Because most of authors are women*. They like to write about handsome man but hate to be accused of self inserts. Joey-Bill is male MarySue, right? m> (and I agree that Luthien m> is just a little too perfect ;P) LOL, Luthien is John's self insert! OK, silly kidding aside. The problem is there are no MarySues nor Joey-Bills in Tolkien's texts for it is heroic literature, especially Silmarillion, which from the definition tells about heroes not mere mortals. Heroes are and must be ideal. You can search for Sues in a type of literature telling about common people, but not among heroes. If we were nitpicking almost every Elda is MarySue, Joey-Bills army ;D But as I said - wrong way, not this type of literature. Fanfiction is different, (almost?) no-one writes heroic stories. That would be real writing in Tolkien's style, not overuse of archaic English. m> In fact, what do you call the perfect, handsome, heroic, 'I m> wish I was them' male character? Or is it so common an occurance, m> everyone takes it for granted? It's safe for female to hide under male self insert, no accusation of being MarySue ;) m> I poke that one out there on the end of a pointy stick... perfect m> males are acceptable when perfect females are not? We have no perfect females, we need no perfect females! We want all those perfect males to be... I said we? No, not we, MINE! ;) m> (And yes, the best stories ofc involve more realistic characters. But m> it seems the militant fervour is always vs. female ones.) Realistic characters are outside of heroic genre. Here we have to deal with beautiful doomed mortal heroes and doomed yet flawless ideal humans in form of Quendi. A bit retarded in the beginning of elven race, but they are living wisdom in the end. Cute. Can you fins any important character who is not beautiful? I can't recall. Or maybe there is nothing of it's beauty but there is nothing of it's ugliness either. Evil is ugly, goodness is beauty, that's it. All according to the will of Eru. Was it here someone saying that Valar asked of Eru taht Quendi will be beautiful and accompany them forever or they're not coming down on Arda? I haven't red all past discussions but eyed something like this, brilliant idea :D * General remark. Most but not all, at least two man are here so it would be nice to not address unknown "author" as "she"/"her" ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1855 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72610 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 21:41:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 21:41:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.180) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 21:41:33 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id y77so202935pyg.28 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:41:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.66.8 with SMTP id o8mr710682waa.135.1212615693002; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:41:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:41:32 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13603_14367441.1212615693021" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Accessing Stories of Arda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=70radFHVEiZ80NrPe5d6ESAcUxvAtFohHZXQpUzZhuUUruf5iCHC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_13603_14367441.1212615693021-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1856 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1975 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2008 22:10:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2008 22:10:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.230) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2008 22:10:56 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id k40so340583rvb.31 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:10:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.170.2 with SMTP id s2mr701704wae.170.1212617455309; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:10:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 15:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 18:10:55 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13932_25821726.1212617455322" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KUVkz054hBr4nYsWfkPYpkvmnEmA4PNBYVvV-CzrykWrrxGuw9T0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_13932_25821726.1212617455322-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1857 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5153 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 00:31:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 00:31:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 00:31:51 -0000 X-Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d10.29bd969c (37145) for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 20:31:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-da05 (webmail-da05.webmail.aol.com [205.188.212.200]) by cia-ma03.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA037-9119484733e51ed; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:31:33 -0400 References: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:31:33 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 75.90.204.86 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA94BAA3DDAB61_F94_5C6D_webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37080-STANDARD X-Received: from 75.90.204.86 by webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.200) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:31:33 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA94BAA30BDB69-F94-2E07@webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=JJ-ScWPbolkdOUAk-SRVmrtI_0RajLHpyv_ihl1Yf-xqBR8XT_W8mihZrcs ----------MB_8CA94BAA3DDAB61_F94_5C6D_webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > So a newbie wonders - why so many rules > and regulations in fanfic? Moreth, I wonder the same thing at times, and I am far from a newbie. And, yes, I know this probably sounds mighty rich coming from the owner of an archive that rates all of its stories and has warnings for sex and slash specifically and everything in between. I am following fandom convention, but that doesn't mean that I don't shake my head at that convention at times. ;) I'll admit that I entertain a little fantasy at times of foisting fanfic writers who insist on all of this constant labeling--*SLASH!* *AU!* *WATCH OUT: SPOILERS*--into the o-fic world for just a few days. I know what you mean, Dawn.? I also entertain that fantasy.? Got a review for one of my stories once?(non-Silm) that basically said they liked it but would have appreciated a warning about the slash element.? The slash element consisted of the fact that the character was grieving his male lover and wanted to know exactly how he had died.? The relationship itself was mentioned in the story, and there was some discussion between two characters about the realities of same-sex relationships in their respective cultures, but there was absolutely NOTHING sexual in the story, in flashback or otherwise.? I didn't see the necessity for a warning at all, the story was rated basically PG,?yet this person was put off. I sometimes think the warnings are laughable-like you said, you don't get them in bookstores.? And people survive those just fine.? You read the blurb, buy the book and if it's too much, you put it down.? Why people can't just read the summary, start the story and hit the back button without recrimination if it becomes too much for them is beyond me. "WARNING!? Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting,?OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!" Isabeau (Temporarily de-lurking.? Still in search of a Silm Muse.) ----------MB_8CA94BAA3DDAB61_F94_5C6D_webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

> So a newbie wonders - why so many rules
> and regulations in fanfic?

Moreth, I wonder the same thing at times, and I am far from a newbie. And, yes, I know this probably sounds mighty rich coming from the owner of an archive that rates all of its stories and has warnings for sex and slash specifically and everything in between. I am following fandom convention, but that doesn't mean that I don't shake my head at that convention at times. ;)

I'll admit that I entertain a little fantasy at times of foisting fanfic writers who insist on all of this constant labeling--*SLASH!* *AU!* *WATCH OUT: SPOILERS*--into the o-fic world for just a few days.


I know what you mean, Dawn.  I also entertain that fantasy.  Got a review for one of my stories once (non-Silm) that basically said they liked it but would have appreciated a warning about the slash element.  The slash element consisted of the fact that the character was grieving his male lover and wanted to know exactly how he had died.  The relationship itself was mentioned in the story, and there was some discussion between two characters about the realities of same-sex relationships in their respective cultures, but there was absolutely NOTHING sexual in the story, in flashback or otherwise.  I didn't see the necessity for a warning at all, the story was rated basically PG, yet this person was put off.

I sometimes think the warnings are laughable-like you said, you don't get them in bookstores.  And people survive those just fine.  You read the blurb, buy the book and if it's too much, you put it down.  Why people can't just read the summary, start the story and hit the back button without recrimination if it becomes too much for them is beyond me.

"WARNING!  Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting, OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!"

Isabeau
(Temporarily de-lurking.  Still in search of a Silm Muse.)


 
----------MB_8CA94BAA3DDAB61_F94_5C6D_webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1858 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27125 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 00:37:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 00:37:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.96) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 00:37:22 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 65068 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jun 2008 00:37:22 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: iX_oBvMVM1mAk20zzSWvK0QOrCtPFmUYbqBudCkie3Io37LOefO4e60eB9nHRDGmHx482iNw2W_AzfAlKapI5vShKeX9fPMQlT6w69h7_9O8GBXO54Vnwgk- X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:37:21 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:37:21 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1926491769-1212626241=:63159" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <26763.63159.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Mary Sue - Unnamed females/wives connection X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=gHTNjGdO2CeoxWpfW8zusDjJQZaaRxty01Bf0unaNi2lcJlmUw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1926491769-1212626241=:63159 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just curious on your opinions - Why did Tolkien leave so many wives or other females unnamed? Does his lack of developing female characters by even giving them a name lead to some people feeling that OFCs are automatically Mary Sue? The few females he did name and develop seem almost larger than life, too perfect, or capable beyond the norm - Varda, Galadriel, Luthien, Arwen, Eowyn, etc ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1926491769-1212626241=:63159 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just curious on your opinions - Why did Tolkien leave so many wives or other females unnamed? Does his lack of developing female characters by even giving them a name lead to some people feeling that OFCs are automatically Mary Sue? The few females he did name and develop seem almost larger than life, too perfect, or capable beyond the norm  - Varda, Galadriel, Luthien, Arwen, Eowyn, etc


~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1926491769-1212626241=:63159-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1859 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23989 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 00:38:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 00:38:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.98) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 00:38:57 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 14172 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jun 2008 00:38:53 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Eyldab8VM1nFzXCE_0ySgmZiZxCVFoCfvQFcwrqHdGBhtbzEe._C6TaO222lIYImaPNfkhgOdo7BFlTUCjDzSnWJfnlKEeIhWKkjQxrSjItOVyxP.g19egQ- X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:38:53 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:38:53 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA94BAA30BDB69-F94-2E07@webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1783289103-1212626333=:14046" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <765704.14046.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=9Pa2RlROySWGS4MZYn7lPMPFQtXxuYT2t4HaQCGANrHGmkrWpA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1783289103-1212626333=:14046 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "WARNING! Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting, OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!" Thanks Isabeau. You owe me a new keyboard. Mine now has pepsi on it. lol ejackamack@aol.com wrote: > So a newbie wonders - why so many rules > and regulations in fanfic? Moreth, I wonder the same thing at times, and I am far from a newbie. And, yes, I know this probably sounds mighty rich coming from the owner of an archive that rates all of its stories and has warnings for sex and slash specifically and everything in between. I am following fandom convention, but that doesn't mean that I don't shake my head at that convention at times. ;) I'll admit that I entertain a little fantasy at times of foisting fanfic writers who insist on all of this constant labeling--*SLASH!* *AU!* *WATCH OUT: SPOILERS*--into the o-fic world for just a few days. I know what you mean, Dawn. I also entertain that fantasy. Got a review for one of my stories once (non-Silm) that basically said they liked it but would have appreciated a warning about the slash element. The slash element consisted of the fact that the character was grieving his male lover and wanted to know exactly how he had died. The relationship itself was mentioned in the story, and there was some discussion between two characters about the realities of same-sex relationships in their respective cultures, but there was absolutely NOTHING sexual in the story, in flashback or otherwise. I didn't see the necessity for a warning at all, the story was rated basically PG, yet this person was put off. I sometimes think the warnings are laughable-like you said, you don't get them in bookstores. And people survive those just fine. You read the blurb, buy the book and if it's too much, you put it down. Why people can't just read the summary, start the story and hit the back button without recrimination if it becomes too much for them is beyond me. "WARNING! Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting, OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!" Isabeau (Temporarily de-lurking. Still in search of a Silm Muse.) --------------------------------- Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1783289103-1212626333=:14046 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
"WARNING!  Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting, OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!"

Thanks Isabeau. You owe me a new keyboard. Mine now has pepsi on it. lol


ejackamack@aol.com wrote:

> So a newbie wonders - why so many rules
> and regulations in fanfic?

Moreth, I wonder the same thing at times, and I am far from a newbie. And, yes, I know this probably sounds mighty rich coming from the owner of an archive that rates all of its stories and has warnings for sex and slash specifically and everything in between. I am following fandom convention, but that doesn't mean that I don't shake my head at that convention at times. ;)

I'll admit that I entertain a little fantasy at times of foisting fanfic writers who insist on all of this constant labeling--*SLASH!* *AU!* *WATCH OUT: SPOILERS*--into the o-fic world for just a few days.


I know what you mean, Dawn.  I also entertain that fantasy.  Got a review for one of my stories once (non-Silm) that basically said they liked it but would have appreciated a warning about the slash element.  The slash element consisted of the fact that the character was grieving his male lover and wanted to know exactly how he had died.  The relationship itself was mentioned in the story, and there was some discussion between two characters about the realities of same-sex relationships in their respective cultures, but there was absolutely NOTHING sexual in the story, in flashback or otherwise.  I didn't see the necessity for a warning at all, the story was rated basically PG, yet this person was put off.

I sometimes think the warnings are laughable-like you said, you don't get them in bookstores.  And people survive those just fine.  You read the blurb, buy the book and if it's too much, you put it down.  Why people can't just read the summary, start the story and hit the back button without recrimination if it becomes too much for them is beyond me.

"WARNING!  Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting, OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!"

Isabeau
(Temporarily de-lurking.  Still in search of a Silm Muse.)


 



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1783289103-1212626333=:14046-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1860 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93788 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 00:47:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 00:47:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.77) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 00:47:37 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 41454 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jun 2008 00:47:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: TjLdj3UVM1mKnrInWUyTYUkSFhM3IOnlH34IrH2YH_roV5oTou1pMT9tXaaAbVQt1sOMoBGc7bTDIVkwF_cEtcHThzV0R2qr4CBbkjAt1nHi2gxgLpPud3WKBA-- X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:47:36 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:47:36 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <26763.63159.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <933481.40853.qm@web56803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Viv Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mary Sue - Unnamed females/wives connection X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=XATrFydMf2yXltmZsJcrAyHn5X0Shr7NuqoBc44LpO8uiRPzYXb3yM53taFc X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess There are quite a few regular-gal type hobbits. Lobelia comes to mind. Surely there wasn't anything Sue-heroine-y about her. But you're right: Tolkien left a lot of good women nameless and storyless (Mrs Thranduil, those various unnamed daughters of Arwen...). I don't want to speculate on what he was thinking in doing so. But it does get my goat a bit. viv --- Alassante7 wrote: > Just curious on your opinions - Why did Tolkien > leave so many wives or other females unnamed? Does > his lack of developing female characters by even > giving them a name lead to some people feeling that > OFCs are automatically Mary Sue? The few females he > did name and develop seem almost larger than life, > too perfect, or capable beyond the norm - Varda, > Galadriel, Luthien, Arwen, Eowyn, etc > > > ~~**~~ > Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye > A Kat with many names....still won't come when you > call her > > http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ > > > > > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1861 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78799 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 00:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 00:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.243) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 00:57:17 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id j58so242359hsj.7 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:57:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.91.2 with SMTP id o2mr587746agb.56.1212627436905; Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.135.147? ( [76.189.135.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y64sm3194295pyg.22.2008.06.04.17.57.13 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4847396E.2040202@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:55:10 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <26763.63159.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <26763.63159.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "melayton@gmail.com" Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mary Sue - Unnamed females/wives connection X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=UBOlKBcKwEwqwvV-uIXyhkbHUEhN9GblMYeb7uD8eiaTZlzyg_OH2w X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Alassante, This is a very good question. Personally, I think it's because of the style of piece he's writing. He's not writing about those characters' lives (esp. their lives before or after the great events) but their *deeds* - specifically their heroic deeds. Which in those times usually meant a quest or battle - things we think of as typically masculine, and at the time women wouldn't have been expected to do them. So I guess there are really only a few options: 1. A woman really figures into the story of a quest or battle; in which case she'd most likely be "larger than life" simply because women didn't fill those roles. 2. A woman had the ordinary amount of affect on the principle character as mother or wife - so while her presence might have been important, it didn't really need to be described because it was "normal." 3. A woman had a somehow extra-ordinary amount of influence on the principle character because of her circumstances. Like, Gilraen (Aragorn's mother) was the only parent alive and so necessarily was the one to bring wee!Aragorn to Rivendell. Or, to use a more Silmarillion-y example, Aredhwen left Eol and brought Maeglin to Gondolin because she was the only one who knew the way; her role in Maeglin's life is necessary to explain how Maeglin got there. These types of stories occasionally give us (fairly) ordinary women; but because the situations are extraordinary the stories are few and far between. ******* If I'm allowed a second (extra-textual) answer... look at Tolkien's life: orphaned early. Raised by a priest. Went to all-boy schools, the army, and then became a professor (a rather male-dominated profession at the time). Married his wife very young. Honestly, how much experience would he have had with women? He was more comfortable with the boys' club, where women weren't that often present, so that's what he wrote. Rightly or wrongly. Marta Alassante7 wrote: > > > Just curious on your opinions - Why did Tolkien leave so many wives or > other females unnamed? Does his lack of developing female characters by > even giving them a name lead to some people feeling that OFCs are > automatically Mary Sue? The few females he did name and develop seem > almost larger than life, too perfect, or capable beyond the norm - > Varda, Galadriel, Luthien, Arwen, Eowyn, etc > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1862 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89009 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 01:27:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 01:27:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 01:27:34 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bf9.3b4ca04a (33856) for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2008 21:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 21:27:19 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212629239" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Slash and what we won't read (WAS: Re: Stories... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=9I4UaNa7s6OHYT51UbGXg1FPOQ6BXv_kzU-vKGWyrKFRwVbdFOVK X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212629239 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/4/2008 1:53:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk writes: I'll be on your side, Oshun. ;> I think we have a similar list of what we (usually) won't read. Mine begins with 'Aragorn'. But still I've tried a few stories about him and been pleasantly surprised. And I used to say I'd never read OFC het, but that's since changed and now I somehow find myself writing them. At the same time, I actively look for Elven AUs, and frequently come up disappointed. Those who loudly procliam, "I will never read X!" are missing out on good stories they'd probably enjoy, if only they gave some things a try. Thanks. It is definitely true that I have read at least one story I really liked in each of the categories of fanfiction that don't care for that much. One other thing I've thought about, and this is nitpicking: I think there's a vast difference between true slash (a story written to see two dudes get it on) and other fiction in which certain characters happen to be homosexual. True slash, to me, is a story about the relationship, written to showcase it. The plot of the story will be 'A and B start/continue their relationship,their relationship,' usually wit Otherwise you have genre fiction with slash elements. Would you agree? I would agree with that point as well. Personally, I have never written an Adult or NC-17 fic, and some that I have categorized R, others have told me are probably safe PG-13s. But, sexual explicitness or lack thereof aside, among the principal stories I have classified as slash I would call one a coming-of-age-type romance. The other was an attempt to look at the early First Age: the environment, politics, and the major players among the exiled Noldor. I chose to do it through the prism of a relationship involving two men. For someone to simply call that slash, assume it is a PWP, and slam the door, upsets me. But I am a big whiney baby. I could have done it differently, but I chose what, for me as a writer at least, was more interesting to explore it. Oshun **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212629239 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =

In a message date= d 6/4/2008 1:53:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk writes= :
I'll be on your side, Oshun. ;&g= t; I think we have a
similar list of what we (usually) won't read. Mi= ne
begins with 'Aragorn'. But still I've tried a few
stories about= him and been pleasantly surprised. And
I used to say I'd never read = OFC het, but that's since
changed and now I somehow find myself writi= ng them.
At the same time, I actively look for Elven AUs, and
fre= quently come up disappointed. Those who loudly
procliam, "I will neve= r read X!" are missing out on
good stories they'd probably enjoy, if = only they gave
some things a try.
Thanks.= It is definitely true that I have read at least one story I really liked = in each of the categories of fanfiction that don't care for that much= .
 
One o= ther thing I've thought about, and this is
nitpicking: I think there's = a vast difference between
true slash (a story written to see two dudes = get it
on) and other fiction in which certain characters
happen to b= e homosexual. True slash, to me, is a
story about the relationship, writ= ten to showcase it.
The plot of the story will be 'A and B start/cont= inue
their relationship,' usually with adult-rated results.
Oth= erwise you have genre fiction with slash elements.
Would you agree?
 
I would agree with that p= oint as well. Personally, I have never written an Adult or NC-17 fic, and = some that I have categorized R, others have told me are probably safe PG-1= 3s. But, sexual explicitness or lack thereof aside, among the princip= al stories I have classified as slash I would call one a coming-of-age-typ= e romance. The other was an attempt to look at the early First Age: the en= vironment, politics, and the major players among the exiled Nold= or. I chose to do it through the prism of a relationship involving two men= . For someone to simply call that slash, assume it is a PWP, and slam the = door, upsets me. But I am a big whiney baby. I could have done it different= ly, but I chose what, for me as a writer at least, was more interesting to= explore it.
 
Oshun




Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. = Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" o= n AOL Food.
-------------------------------1212629239-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1863 Return-Path: X-Sender: WolfwindHA@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77294 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 03:41:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 03:41:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.207) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 03:41:11 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 03:41:11 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 03:41:11 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 03:41:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "wolfwindha" Subject: Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=BMQDwkA-hs8ZdlWn5iiy7gLU5aYGebb7V2IbknV3WKEhgEnhniO-Jx8 X-Yahoo-Profile: wolfwindha --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wro= te: > > It did make me wonder about the way genres are defined in fanfic >= communities. I mean, if I want to find Mary Renault's 'Alexander > Trilog= y' I don't go and look for 'Slash' in my local bookstore, I > look for 'Hi= storal Novels'! So a newbie wonders - why so many rules > and regulations = in fanfic? Actually, the genres and warnings are one of my favorite thin= gs about fanfiction! You're absolutely right, in original fiction there i= s almost no way to know what's there until one starts reading. That's har= d for me. I've dubbed myself 'underage at heart' on occasion and it's sti= ll true: I don't like movies rated PG-13 or higher, I won't pick up magazin= es unless I know what's in them, and I have a whole list of things I don't= want to read. And it's always a test of my self-control to get halfway i= nto a book and really enjoy it and then come across a steamy sex scene or = something else I don't want and have to put the book down. I don't want t= o imply that I judge what other people choose to read or write and I hope n= o one's offended, but I have personal reasons to select what I read. And = I really appreciate the fact that in fanfic I can do that without making a= n investment in the story; I can skip something based on the labels. So I= really appreciate all of you who jump through the hoops and click the litt= le boxes even though it seems pointless to you; it's a big help to me! Th= anks! Wolfwind From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1864 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70644 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 12:55:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 12:55:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.100) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 12:55:22 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 26394 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jun 2008 12:55:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 8NbA.WsVM1lsDVIZao6pR937LrAmW6MKnVRDgTbcT1UEgmPp.QKOyfNs38w6PdjJybq9_WzokiV43AFJg8nQLvzQWYeLx40S3TulmtdC5Sb5vDtN8OD2ju0- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 05:55:21 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 05:55:21 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4847396E.2040202@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1226407608-1212670521=:25821" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <517754.25821.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mary Sue - Unnamed females/wives connection X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=GOodrbpaZ2mss8qMc9jxeQ3qyVyCePwEUo5oeNPnu3MvYct00A X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1226407608-1212670521=:25821 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I didn't think about his lack of exposure to women. Good point! "melayton@gmail.com" wrote: Hi Alassante, This is a very good question. Personally, I think it's because of the style of piece he's writing. He's not writing about those characters' lives (esp. their lives before or after the great events) but their *deeds* - specifically their heroic deeds. Which in those times usually meant a quest or battle - things we think of as typically masculine, and at the time women wouldn't have been expected to do them. So I guess there are really only a few options: 1. A woman really figures into the story of a quest or battle; in which case she'd most likely be "larger than life" simply because women didn't fill those roles. 2. A woman had the ordinary amount of affect on the principle character as mother or wife - so while her presence might have been important, it didn't really need to be described because it was "normal." 3. A woman had a somehow extra-ordinary amount of influence on the principle character because of her circumstances. Like, Gilraen (Aragorn's mother) was the only parent alive and so necessarily was the one to bring wee!Aragorn to Rivendell. Or, to use a more Silmarillion-y example, Aredhwen left Eol and brought Maeglin to Gondolin because she was the only one who knew the way; her role in Maeglin's life is necessary to explain how Maeglin got there. These types of stories occasionally give us (fairly) ordinary women; but because the situations are extraordinary the stories are few and far between. ******* If I'm allowed a second (extra-textual) answer... look at Tolkien's life: orphaned early. Raised by a priest. Went to all-boy schools, the army, and then became a professor (a rather male-dominated profession at the time). Married his wife very young. Honestly, how much experience would he have had with women? He was more comfortable with the boys' club, where women weren't that often present, so that's what he wrote. Rightly or wrongly. Marta Alassante7 wrote: > > > Just curious on your opinions - Why did Tolkien leave so many wives or > other females unnamed? Does his lack of developing female characters by > even giving them a name lead to some people feeling that OFCs are > automatically Mary Sue? The few females he did name and develop seem > almost larger than life, too perfect, or capable beyond the norm - > Varda, Galadriel, Luthien, Arwen, Eowyn, etc > ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1226407608-1212670521=:25821 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I didn't think about his lack of exposure to women. Good point!

"melayton@gmail.com" wrote:
Hi Alassante,

This is a very good question. Personally, I think it's because of the
style of piece he's writing. He's not writing about those characters'
lives (esp. their lives before or after the great events) but their
*deeds* - specifically their heroic deeds. Which in those times usually
meant a quest or battle - things we think of as typically masculine, and
at the time women wouldn't have been expected to do them. So I guess
there are really only a few options:

1. A woman really figures into the story of a quest or battle; in which
case she'd most likely be "larger than life" simply because women didn't
fill those roles.

2. A woman had the ordinary amount of affect on the principle character
as mother or wife - so while her presence might have been important, it
didn't really need to be described because it was "normal."

3. A woman had a somehow extra-ordinary amount of influence on the
principle character because of her circumstances. Like, Gilraen
(Aragorn's mother) was the only parent alive and so necessarily was the
one to bring wee!Aragorn to Rivendell. Or, to use a more Silmarillion-y
example, Aredhwen left Eol and brought Maeglin to Gondolin because she
was the only one who knew the way; her role in Maeglin's life is
necessary to explain how Maeglin got there. These types of stories
occasionally give us (fairly) ordinary women; but because the situations
are extraordinary the stories are few and far between.

*******

If I'm allowed a second (extra-textual) answer... look at Tolkien's
life: orphaned early. Raised by a priest. Went to all-boy schools, the
army, and then became a professor (a rather male-dominated profession at
the time). Married his wife very young.

Honestly, how much experience would he have had with women? He was more
comfortable with the boys' club, where women weren't that often present,
so that's what he wrote. Rightly or wrongly.

Marta
Alassante7 wrote:
>
>
> Just curious on your opinions - Why did Tolkien leave so many wives or
> other females unnamed? Does his lack of developing female characters by
> even giving them a name lead to some people feeling that OFCs are
> automatically Mary Sue? The few females he did name and develop seem
> almost larger than life, too perfect, or capable beyond the norm -
> Varda, Galadriel, Luthien, Arwen, Eowyn, etc
>




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1226407608-1212670521=:25821-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1865 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69036 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 13:41:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 13:41:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n52b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.166) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 13:41:14 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n52.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 13:41:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 13:41:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 13:41:13 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:41:13 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4847396E.2040202@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Mary Sue - Unnamed females/wives connection X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=bBfeQDM9_m8U8GExXbnqFlLECpyDLSvxd2k142U5cJ1phos X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Marta, I agree with all of your observations on the dearth of well-develope= d female characters! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1866 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24995 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 15:14:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 15:14:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.154) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 15:14:32 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so367208ywk.68 for ; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:14:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.196.13 with SMTP id t13mr1597132waf.219.1212678871557; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:14:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:14:31 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2948_18818965.1212678871562" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Slash and what we won't read (WAS: Re: Stories... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=XsEh4GgeoSJBiF_qaZ5ib6C_uKWaA3y9aJFUKGE2H0mTnW0G7Dwt X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_2948_18818965.1212678871562-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1867 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57697 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 15:19:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 15:19:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 15:19:15 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j4so383499wah.19 for ; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:19:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.208.20 with SMTP id f20mr1640696wag.144.1212679155016; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:19:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:19:14 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA94BAA30BDB69-F94-2E07@webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2984_19210914.1212679155034" References: <8CA94BAA30BDB69-F94-2E07@webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=3nsEUBCGhkB9U_Z_sr4-2GpYFjkiqq9rAvp1XrCHG7T2DjDCd1rH X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_2984_19210914.1212679155034-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1868 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91861 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 15:59:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 15:59:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n10.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.137) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 15:59:03 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n10.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 15:59:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 15:59:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 15:59:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 15:59:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Slash and what we won't read (WAS: Re: Stories... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=NAbt6tBxDcKfCbncq4pH83LB0pBgV7N_zdJ4IJqrexR6xtA X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Hi Dawn, I know you're hoping to hear from some people who won't read slas= h, and while that's not true of me I'd like to take a stab at answering you= r question... --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felag= und" wrote: > > Likewise with slash: if my story happens= to have a homosexual character in > it (without exploring his/her relation= ship or sexuality), will it go unread? > If one of my characters makes ment= ion of a homosexual relationship, e.g., > "It was just like at Maedhros and= Fingon's wedding!" is it still a slash > story? > > Personally, I don't t= hink that it is. In fact, I'm going to chance opening a > can of worms and = say that I'd find it a little bothersome to have someone > insist that it i= s. > I see it akin to a food allergy. Lucky me, I don't have any, and alt= hough I understand without needing further explanation when someone with a = nut allergy turns down a peanutbutter cookie, I admit that there have been = times when I've been startled by someone who quizzed a waiter to find out w= hat *all* of the ingredients in a given entree are, lest they inadvertently= consume even a minuscule amount of whatever it is they're trying to avoid.= For those of us who are fortunate enough to not suffer from food allergie= s, this might seem like excessive fussiness ... but that's because we don't= have to run to the bathroom, or pop a dozen antihistamines, or be rushed t= o the emergency room for ingesting something that our bodies can't handle. = (Long tangential aside: I confess that I find the strictures on common foo= d allergens to be a bit excessive sometimes, even to the point where I feel= annoyed -- because why *can't* I have peanuts on an airplane? If someone'= s allergic they don't have to eat them!! And no one prevents people from b= oarding flights drenched in gag-inducing perfumes or colognes. I sneezed m= y way through a transatlantic flight last summer thanks to the cloud of per= fume that enveloped the woman sitting directly behind me, so it seems that = some irritants are accommodated over others. But that's probably because t= here's a difference between an irritant and something that could be life-th= reatening.) OK, so no one is going get anaphylaxis from reading a bit of s= lash (or horror, or Boromir alive and well in the Fourth Age), but since th= ere are people who find such things to be very off-putting ... why not incl= ude the labels? Our hope as authors in sharing our stories is that people = will read *and enjoy* them. I haven't invested nearly as much of my time a= nd energy into writing fanfiction as some of you have -- and I appreciate t= he efforts that every fanfic author makes! -- but I can say for sure that I= don't want anyone to read my story if they're having to hold their noses o= r avert their eyes (figuratively) while they do. I only want people to rea= d it if they find it worthwhile. Speaking of which, as a newbie author I'm= wondering if there's a warning term for "long-winded introspection with li= ttle action?" If so, I should apply it to my story -- seems like something= people might want to be forewarned about! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1869 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82770 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 16:32:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 16:32:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.29) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 16:32:59 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so381452ywe.65 for ; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:32:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.128.6 with SMTP id a6mr607984wfd.331.1212683578443; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:32:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 09:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806050932pfaa0104kc4b3af651e70ade9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:32:58 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 81510bab2a9763e3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Slash and what we won't read (WAS: Re: Stories... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=hYfyvXOkJWJWBYflsxQRTmx3ruc-kV26MBCaYPGazozU4A X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > Oshun, you are not a big whiney baby. ;) Even as I think that people have a > right to their opinions--and therefore, their preferences--I also > acknowledge that it's hurtful to have your writing dismissed simply because > it falls under a label ... and a rather broad label, if one is talking about > slash. Once upon a time, in a writers' workshop, I had a story dismissed > because it was felt to be too much like science fiction. *horror!* > Therefore, it wasn't worth discussing, so after slogging through and writing > pages of comments on dozens of crappy stories about people breaking up with > their girlfriends, I got to listen to everyone complain about how Dune > sucked while my story sat unremarked upon. I'm still really angry about > that, and that was six years ago! :) Dawn, I have run into the same thing and it's a matter of a combination of personal tastes and marketability and there is no point in being angry about it. I've workshopped with some top industry professionals in both SFF and RWA and my personal thoughts - from down here in the trenches - is that there is a HUGE untapped market of sexy specfic. With plot,and moderate sex- but no one seems to want to publish it (other than the standard paranormal vamps/weres) because of this disconnect between SFF and romance. But I think the only thing that is going to make the difference is the bottom line $$$$$$$$$$$ if people would seek out and purchase sexy sff, the publishers would respond by buying and publishing more of it. and remember what Dune went through to get published. Turned down multiple times by every major house and finally published through a small press that put out mechanical texts. :) > But to get to Claudio's original post ... > >> I think it's more common for people to say they won't >> read slash, though, because it's a far broader label >> than horror/romance/etc., and much easier to define. >> A writer's romance might be a reader's fluff, but it >> can always be categorised as het or slash. It's >> something a little more solid than simply a genre. > > This is very true. It's like classifying a story about whether there are > Elves in it or not. It's more of a factual answer than one that requires > subjectivity. > > Now the point at which a "story with Elves in it" becomes a "story about > Elves" ... that is more difficult. :) If I had a nickel for every time someone told me that they don't read Elves or OFC or whatever else it is I write, I would be rich. I just finished the second book in a new series. A reviewer I read last week said they loved the book but were disappointed that the relationship wasn't as front-n-center as it had been in the first book and I also loved the book,but totally disagree about the balance of relationship growth and other plotting. I enjoyed the depth of the plot (corporate and political drama) and ongoing drama and found myself losing interest in the relationship as it matured past control issues and started trying to grow into more. *bleh*. But at the same time, while I don't care for slash in general, I do like Francis' Administration series. I don't care for hard military drama (unless it's far future) or non-con, but I'm totally hooked on Ringo's Ghost series. (hopefully, the universe won't explode since I've mentioned Mike and Val in the same breath.) but it comes back to what I was saying in a earlier post - that PERSONALLY, as a reader - I have expectations, mainly of world and character, when I pick up a book. Ringo and Francis stay true to their worlds. If I read that Mike picked up a guy or that Val suddenly developed compassion - it would knock me out of those worlds. I have expectations of Tolkiens' world (from reading his and Christopher's works) and fanfic that doesn't stay true to my vision of those worlds is disconcerting to me. I know it's different for everyone but I do appreciate the labels. >> One other thing I've thought about, and this is >> nitpicking: I think there's a vast difference between >> true slash (a story written to see two dudes get it >> on) and other fiction in which certain characters >> happen to be homosexual. True slash, to me, is a >> story about the relationship, written to showcase it. >> The plot of the story will be 'A and B start/continue >> their relationship,' usually with adult-rated results. >> Otherwise you have genre fiction with slash elements. >> Would you agree? > > I don't really think you're nitpicking. I think this is a great point and > one worth addressing. > > It's rather like saying, "I don't like stories about Elves." Okay, fine, > that's you're preference, and you're entitled to it. But is a story that > mentions Elves or even involves Elves in a non-important sense still "about > Elves"? If one my Hobbit characters mentions, "Legolas once told me ..." > does that mean that you won't read my story? Or if Feanor is a minor, > background character in a story about Aule and Yavanna, would that story > still go unread because there is an Elf in the story, so the story is "about > Elves"? > > Likewise with slash: if my story happens to have a homosexual character in > it (without exploring his/her relationship or sexuality), will it go unread? > If one of my characters makes mention of a homosexual relationship, e.g., > "It was just like at Maedhros and Fingon's wedding!" is it still a slash > story? > > Personally, I don't think that it is. In fact, I'm going to chance opening a > can of worms and say that I'd find it a little bothersome to have someone > insist that it is. > > (This is 100% my opinion, of course. I'd love to hear from some of those who > tend to avoid reading slash as to why they might feel differently.) > > All the best, > > Dawn > -- I totally agree on this. and/but, there is a long list of stuff I don't normally read and while slash is on the list, it's not the only thing I'll spout that I 'don't read'. The vast majority of Tolkien slash simply seems OOC to me, and that's why I don't usually read even the well-written ones. Hobbit stories frequently seem too nicey-nice (not enough drama and conflict), OCs are typically not well rounded enough to hold my interest, Denethor frequently seems flat and vilified... have I offended everyone yet? ;) when I have time to read and I'm browsing for something, the labels help set my expectations. I check the author (is it someone who's work I know I like or someone new?), I check the summary - and will start reading anything that interests me that far. I'll read as long as the story holds my interest, including not jarring me out of the story with any of the issues we've been 'round over the last few days. Sulriel From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1870 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21708 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 16:52:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 16:52:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 16:52:39 -0000 X-Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-m13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d53.2c944285 (37529) for ; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:52:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-me10 (webmail-me10.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.202]) by cia-mb01.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB012-9299484819c2f1; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:52:18 -0400 References: <8CA94BAA30BDB69-F94-2E07@webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:52:19 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 75.90.204.86 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA9543A6B0EC85_F8_367E_webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37080-STANDARD X-Received: from 75.90.204.86 by webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.202) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:52:19 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA9543A68601E9-F8-1B7E@webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=8qXoSZRYvabs33F5kICL2_dnCdGmIiIIBlFnkeBwF87DA0ztYTF8F4HTRtc ----------MB_8CA9543A6B0EC85_F8_367E_webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not me!? Too many WIPs > "WARNING!? Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting,?OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!" Okay, just so you know, this totally made my night last night! Anyone up for the challenge of writing this story? :^D ? > (Temporarily de-lurking.? Still in search of a Silm Muse.) I've got a couple dozen I could loan you ... I know.? You're generous that way... Isabeau -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:19 am Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... On 6/4/08, ejackamack@aol.com wrote: > Why people can't just read the summary, start the story and hit the back button without recrimination if it becomes too much for them is beyond me. Especially when you consider that fanfic is free! I can see being annoyed if I just spent $30 on a hardcover book and now can't read it. But I've never understood a similar hangup with finding the BACK button when reading stories online. ? > "WARNING!? Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting,?OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!" Okay, just so you know, this totally made my night last night! Anyone up for the challenge of writing this story? :^D ? > (Temporarily de-lurking.? Still in search of a Silm Muse.) I've got a couple dozen I could loan you ... ? Dawn ? -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ----------MB_8CA9543A6B0EC85_F8_367E_webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Not me!  Too many WIPs

> "WARNING!  Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting, OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!"
Okay, just so you know, this totally made my night last night! Anyone up for the challenge of writing this story? :^D
 
> (Temporarily de-lurking.  Still in search of a Silm Muse.)
I've got a couple dozen I could loan you ...

I know.  You're generous that way...

Isabeau


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:19 am
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto...

> Why people can't just read the summary, start the story and hit the back button without recrimination if it becomes too much for them is beyond me.
Especially when you consider that fanfic is free! I can see being annoyed if I just spent $30 on a hardcover book and now can't read it. But I've never understood a similar hangup with finding the BACK button when reading stories online.
 
> "WARNING!  Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting, OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!"
Okay, just so you know, this totally made my night last night! Anyone up for the challenge of writing this story? :^D
 
> (Temporarily de-lurking.  Still in search of a Silm Muse.)
I've got a couple dozen I could loan you ...
 
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
----------MB_8CA9543A6B0EC85_F8_367E_webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1871 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69333 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 16:53:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 16:53:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 16:53:25 -0000 X-Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d03.35f50203 (37534) for ; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:53:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-me10 (webmail-me10.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.202]) by cia-mb01.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB017-929e48481a01384; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:53:21 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:53:21 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 75.90.204.86 In-Reply-To: <765704.14046.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA9543CBFDD51B_F8_36A4_webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37080-STANDARD X-Received: from 75.90.204.86 by webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.202) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:53:21 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA9543CBF6AE01-F8-1B92@webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=GieNecKIQvkosyzeD8o0lUvTwtzJKIpRALuWFMNfWIBk62IWquUdGpEqgCw ----------MB_8CA9543CBFDD51B_F8_36A4_webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You're welcome, Alassante! Isabeau "WARNING!? Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting,?OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!" Thanks Isabeau. You owe me a new keyboard. Mine now has pepsi on it. lol ejackamack@aol.com wrote: > So a newbie wonders - why so many rules > and regulations in fanfic? Moreth, I wonder the same thing at times, and I am far from a newbie. And, yes, I know this probably sounds mighty rich coming from the owner of an archive that rates all of its stories and has warnings for sex and slash specifically and everything in between. I am following fandom convention, but that doesn't mean that I don't shake my head at that convention at times. ;) I'll admit that I entertain a little fantasy at times of foisting fanfic writers who insist on all of this constant labeling--*SLASH!* *AU!* *WATCH OUT: SPOILERS*--into the o-fic world for just a few days. I know what you mean, Dawn.? I also entertain that fantasy.? Got a review for one of my stories once?(non-Silm) that basically said they liked it but would have appreciated a warning about the slash element.? The slash element consisted of the fact that the character was grieving his male lover and wanted to know exactly how he had died.? The relationship itself was mentioned in the story, and there was some discussion between two characters about the realities of same-sex relationships in their respective cultures, but there was absolutely NOTHING sexual in the story, in flashback or otherwise.? I didn't see the necessity for a warning at all, the story was rated basically PG,?yet this person was put off. I sometimes think the warnings are laughable-like you said, you don't get them in bookstores.? And people survive those just fine.? You read the blurb, buy the book and if it's too much, you put it down.? Why people can't just read the summary, start the story and hit the back button without recrimination if it becomes too much for them is beyond me. "WARNING!? Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting,?OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!" Isabeau (Temporarily de-lurking.? Still in search of a Silm Muse.) ? Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ ? ? ? ----------MB_8CA9543CBFDD51B_F8_36A4_webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" You're welcome, Alassante!

Isabeau



"WARNING!  Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting, OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!"

Thanks Isabeau. You owe me a new keyboard. Mine now has pepsi on it. lol


ejackamack@aol.com wrote:
> So a newbie wonders - why so many rules
> and regulations in fanfic?

Moreth, I wonder the same thing at times, and I am far from a newbie. And, yes, I know this probably sounds mighty rich coming from the owner of an archive that rates all of its stories and has warnings for sex and slash specifically and everything in between. I am following fandom convention, but that doesn't mean that I don't shake my head at that convention at times. ;)

I'll admit that I entertain a little fantasy at times of foisting fanfic writers who insist on all of this constant labeling--*SLASH!* *AU!* *WATCH OUT: SPOILERS*--into the o-fic world for just a few days.


I know what you mean, Dawn.  I also entertain that fantasy.  Got a review for one of my stories once (non-Silm) that basically said they liked it but would have appreciated a warning about the slash element.  The slash element consisted of the fact that the character was grieving his male lover and wanted to know exactly how he had died.  The relationship itself was mentioned in the story, and there was some discussion between two characters about the realities of same-sex relationships in their respective cultures, but there was absolutely NOTHING sexual in the story, in flashback or otherwise.  I didn't see the necessity for a warning at all, the story was rated basically PG, yet this person was put off.

I sometimes think the warnings are laughable-like you said, you don't get them in bookstores.  And people survive those just fine.  You read the blurb, buy the book and if it's too much, you put it down.  Why people can't just read the summary, start the story and hit the back button without recrimination if it becomes too much for them is beyond me.

"WARNING!  Character Bad-Hair Day, Fly-Swatting, OFC PMS, Soap-operatic Angst and horrors! Hangnails!"

Isabeau
(Temporarily de-lurking.  Still in search of a Silm Muse.)


 



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 
----------MB_8CA9543CBFDD51B_F8_36A4_webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1872 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56498 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 17:07:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 17:07:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 17:07:08 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d52.2c48aea1 (33856) for ; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:07:00 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212685620" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=89USBGHYvujOEIDfgw26_mbzXcrgoszMjN0TBdrM0D9vqiCeIF8P X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212685620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/5/2008 11:53:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, ejackamack@aol.com writes: Not me! Too many WIPs I'll support you on that: I just re-read your last couple of chapters of Kinstrife last night (seeing it was nommed for the MEFAs) and I want more. On the othe hand, I would really love to see a detailed story by you dealing with Silm canon. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212685620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/5/2008 11:53:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, ejackamack@aol.com wri= tes:
Not me!  Too many WIPs
I'll supp= ort you on that: I just re-read your last couple of chapters of Kinstr= ife last night (seeing it was nommed for the MEFAs) and I want more. = On the othe hand, I would really love to see a detailed story by you = dealing with Silm canon.



Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
-------------------------------1212685620-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1873 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20204 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 18:11:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 18:11:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n30b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.253) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 18:11:27 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 18:11:27 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 18:11:27 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 18:11:27 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:11:27 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="6-7495665657-2460149343=:2" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=CVMocU8Wo9sn-sGAC8JDNf5o_FMyhefoTwoql_pyi8nSONGvnFfxaHE4 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --6-7495665657-2460149343=:2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wr= ote: > > On the other hand, not only am I a big fan of the 'reader-theory'= > school of thought, Tolkien also wanted to create a 'mythology'. [bolded = emphasis - pandemonium] I > would say fanfic is a likely the outcome of tha= t desire ;D > > Be careful what you wish for... Exactly! Exactly! Thank = you, thank you for at mentioning the m-word again in this thread. JRRT d= oesn't hint at this as his intention. He explicitly states it! Multiple ti= mes even. However, unlike Graeco-Roman or Celtic or Norse mythology, it i= s copyrighted. Sort of casts F=EBanor's possessiveness of the Silmarils = -- and not wanting to share them with all and sundry -- in an ironic light= . I can't yank out the exact quote now, but recall his remarks that he ho= ped other works of art (music, theater, etc.) would be spawned from his cre= ated mythology? And yet he didn't wish to let go of his sub-creation as ev= idenced by many remarks in his Letters. I certainly can't blame him for w= anting to retain creative control taking of his "baby," (who wouldn't?) bu= t there is an element there of having one's cake and eating it, too. So, y= es, be careful what you wish for. Speaking for myself, I have found that e= mbracing the concept of JRRT's works as mythopoeia to be rather freeing. = That said, the List of Rules in fan fic continues to baffle me, too. This = isn't limited to warning labels. I mean, fan fic is not rocket science. B= y that I mean an artistic and creative endeavor need not have specification= s and tolerances that a third stage booster requires to launch a satellite = payload. But then, I'm pretty expansive in what I like as a reader in Tolk= ienian flavored fan fic -- or any other fiction for that matter. --6-7495665657-2460149343=:2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wrote:

>
> On the other hand, not only am I a big f= an of the 'reader-theory'
> school of thought, Tolkien also wante= d to create a 'mythology'. [bolded emphasis - pandemonium] I
> w= ould say fanfic is a likely the outcome of that desire ;D
>
>= Be careful what you wish for...

Exactly!  Exactly! = ; Thank you, thank you for at mentioning the m-word again in this thread.&n= bsp;

 JRRT doesn't hint at this as his intention. He ex= plicitly states it!  Multiple times even.  However, unlike=   Graeco-Roman or Celtic or Norse mythology, it is copyrighted. &= nbsp; Sort of casts F=EBanor's possessiveness of the Silmarils  -- and= not wanting to  share them with all and sundry -- in an ironic light.=    I can't yank out the exact quote now, but recall his remarks t= hat he hoped other works of art (music, theater, etc.) would be spawned fro= m his created mythology?  And yet he didn't wish to let go of his sub-= creation as evidenced by many remarks  in his Letters.  I certain= ly can't blame him for wanting to retain creative control taking of his "ba= by," (who wouldn't?)  but there is an element there of having one's ca= ke and eating it, too.  So, yes, be careful what you wish for.
Speaking for myself, I have found that embracing the concept of JRRT's wor= ks as mythopoeia  to be rather freeing.  That said, the List of R= ules in fan fic continues to baffle me, too.  This isn't limited to wa= rning labels.  I mean, fan fic is not rocket science.  By that I = mean an artistic and creative endeavor need not have specifications and tol= erances that a third stage booster requires to launch a satellite payload.&= nbsp; But then, I'm pretty expansive in what I like as a reader in Tolkieni= an flavored fan fic -- or any other fiction for that matter.

--6-7495665657-2460149343=:2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1874 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79746 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 18:21:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 18:21:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 18:21:36 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bf3.31c8ad81 (33856) for ; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 14:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 14:21:23 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212690083" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Vny4wtIDA6KNntmfzCar9KT8YhAeHCs0Mqa6NIMC6FsC_D2h0b4v X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212690083 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/5/2008 1:11:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: That said, the List of Rules in fan fic continues to baffle me, too. This isn't limited to warning labels. I came very late to the game to understand the evolution. When I first started writing my Silmarillion fics, focusing on the exiled Noldor, I was in the beginning continually referred to early fanfics on the same subject, as though I had not done my homework. (In fact, I had read them and I was inspired to write my own to do it somewhat differently). Anyway, there point was that these characters should be written, everyone knows was the implication, with only high seriousness. That any story that tended to examine them differently was to fall below the mark. I did take what I was doing seriously but it was a hard slough to convince very many people of that. I mean, fan fic is not rocket science. By that I mean an artistic and creative endeavor need not have specifications and tolerances that a third stage booster requires to launch a satellite payload. But then, I'm pretty expansive in what I like as a reader in Tolkienian flavored fan fic -- or any other fiction for that matter. I am flaming liberal on the question myself. I do like to see the hard canon shining through (never a movieverse person for sure--although that is not a problem with Silm fics, thank god), but the stories themselves, to really interest me, need go somewhere slightly different with those canon facts. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212690083 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 6/5/2008 1:11:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes:=
That said, the List of Rules in fan = fic continues to baffle me, too.  This isn't limited to warning lab= els. 
I came very late to the game to underst= and the evolution. When I first started writing my Silmarillion fics, focu= sing on the exiled Noldor, I was in the beginning continually referred to = early fanfics on the same subject, as though I had not done my homework. (= In fact, I had read them and I was inspired to write my own to do it somew= hat differently). Anyway, there point was that these characters should be = written, everyone knows was the implication, with only high seriousness. T= hat any story that tended to examine them differently was to fall below th= e mark. I did take what I was doing seriously but it was a hard slough to = convince very many people of that.
I me= an, fan fic is not rocket science.  By that I mean an artistic and = creative endeavor need not have specifications and tolerances that a third = stage booster requires to launch a satellite payload.  But then, I'= m pretty expansive in what I like as a reader in Tolkienian flavored fan= fic -- or any other fiction for that matter.
I am flaming liberal on the question myself. I do like to se= e the hard canon shining through (never a movieverse person for sure--alth= ough that is not a problem with Silm fics, thank god), but the stories the= mselves, to really interest me, need go somewhere slightly different with = those canon facts.



Get = trade secrets for amazing burgers. Wa= tch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
-------------------------------1212690083-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1875 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14807 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 19:16:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 19:16:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.181) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 19:16:16 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n30so239673elf.14 for ; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:16:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.120.1 with SMTP id s1mr2113057wac.31.1212693375931; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:16:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:16:15 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4576_31313532.1212693375926" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5tAA_pyRLZ4qF9hFWpy_kymDbOYFkFUaEOZwZPG0fgG2TQYb4G_E X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_4576_31313532.1212693375926-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1876 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82429 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 19:23:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 19:23:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.107) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 19:23:27 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 82825 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jun 2008 19:23:26 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: H9N3X4AVM1m6WnldRwnHf9plJw6ftemYVzRlTZabsPt7F9.hWp7p58LhbLQKkEBMf3o5QmP_A.Z8TPduvPmgkBhifQ5lD2wsYPkCprImNG3Gj1tKENqitA-- X-Received: from [24.66.94.140] by web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:23:26 BST Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:23:26 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <604216.82786.qm@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=asLYTnFRBAx7FQ9mm1OGqjwpD0VOX9WSOVeAupd5ZvA5zYpY0g X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- Dawn Felagund wrote: > For example, when I first started posting AMC, I > received a comment that it > was a well-written story but *so AU* because > *everyone knows that Feanor was > a terrible father!* I've never really understood this fanon. I can see him as strict, sure, and demanding, and with a few temper flare-ups here and there, but terrible? To judge by the oath-swearing, his sons clearly adored him. They gladly went to their deaths for him. Why would they show so much devotion to and admiration for a terrible father? I believe he expected quite a bit from his children, and wanted them to share in his success. But having high standards and being a loving, supportive parent are not mutually exclusive. CGL __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1877 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60957 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 19:36:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 19:36:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 19:36:30 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 19:36:30 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 19:36:30 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 19:36:30 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:36:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=YKOARhsk9B1ufECcSntW6Oi7A1APTyRrWIZMR_mjR5jhq58 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 > However, unlike Graeco-Roman or Celtic or Norse > mythology, it is copyr= ighted. Sort of casts F=EBanor's possessiveness > of the Silmarils -- an= d not wanting to share them with all and sundry > -- in an ironic light. = *Snort* - you have to love IP protection ;P > Speaking for myself, = I have found that embracing the concept of JRRT's > works as mythopoeia to= be rather freeing. That said, the List of Rules > in fan fic continues t= o baffle me, too. This isn't limited to warning > labels. I mean, fan fic= is not rocket science. By that I mean an > artistic and creative endeavor= need not have specifications and > tolerances that a third stage booster r= equires to launch a satellite > payload. The bit that fascinates me is t= hat people *of their own freewill* impose these specifications (and since = I am generally playing ball, I'll include me in this group ;D). As you say= , for a launch vehicle - a 3" thick interface spec... but for fanfic??? N= evertheless, it seems anarchy is not an option! (Which is probably a good = thing, but still an interesting outcome of group interaction.) > But the= n, I'm pretty expansive in what I like as a reader in > Tolkienian flavored= fan fic -- or any other fiction for that matter. > Like many here, I find= I have an ambivalent answer to the question. I am pretty open to reading = anything. With Tolkien fanfic, I prefer a solid reference to canon (becaus= e half the fun of reading fanfic is thinking, 'Oh yes, ofc that could happ= en like that... I get the point.'), but I'll cheerfully read AU. The probl= em I have with *good* AU is wondering why it's not original fic - in fact = the 'nod to Tolkien' can be intrusive for me... strange but true. So, to = answer the question originally posed, Canon Serving Stories for me please.= If the canon merely inspires an unlinked story, go for it - but go balls = out and give the OC an original name (I'm especially thinking of X-over fi= cs here). Although I do realise one needs a group to interact with, and fo= rums for 'slightly inspired by Tolkien, but really sort of original fic.' = are probably rare! Having said all that, my entertainment in writing seems= to primarily come from gap-filling / considering in excruciating detail *= how that sentence could be interpreted*. (Ya can take the gal out of engi= neering, but ya can't take the engineering out of the gal! Ah well...) Mo= reth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1878 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71915 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 19:58:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 19:58:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 19:58:24 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 3437 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jun 2008 19:58:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dsNtbtsVM1k_qPsapfUwkacLHn2r9RO.fRPVyLhXOwDRPGGzQhtddK4EWJ2FJpCN4NLIs3pR_jUpekrQh6uj_Jr5NY9yPj3.vOHmpDzngbktVgV.7DjdW_s- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:58:23 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:58:23 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <604216.82786.qm@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-692696754-1212695903=:3393" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <497049.3393.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=2V53grKfpORU_GN9hOPh9Od4ZUhoF1-2WTJqIVmtv1Goq_G_4Q X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-692696754-1212695903=:3393 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit About Feanor, I always think of him as being a good father until the Silmarils were made then he became so obsessed with them. But I think its fair to say that some kids are loyal to their parents no matter how much they suck. At least in RL its that way. One thing that I've always thought is that they probably felt obligated to stick with him in the heat of the moment. After all, their mother didn't go into exile with them, their grandfather was dead, and their father was going to M-E. Due to the poor relations with Feanor and his half brothers, they might have felt like outsiders there too. It could have been a situation of sticking together since no one else wants them around. CGL wrote: --- Dawn Felagund wrote: > For example, when I first started posting AMC, I > received a comment that it > was a well-written story but *so AU* because > *everyone knows that Feanor was > a terrible father!* I've never really understood this fanon. I can see him as strict, sure, and demanding, and with a few temper flare-ups here and there, but terrible? To judge by the oath-swearing, his sons clearly adored him. They gladly went to their deaths for him. Why would they show so much devotion to and admiration for a terrible father? I believe he expected quite a bit from his children, and wanted them to share in his success. But having high standards and being a loving, supportive parent are not mutually exclusive. CGL __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-692696754-1212695903=:3393 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
About Feanor, I always think of him as being a good father until the Silmarils were made then he became so obsessed with them. But I think its fair to say that some kids are loyal to their parents no matter how much they suck. At least in RL its that way. One thing that I've always thought is that they probably felt obligated to stick with him in the heat of the moment. After all, their mother didn't go into exile with them, their grandfather was dead, and their father was going to M-E. Due to the poor relations with Feanor and his half brothers, they might have felt like outsiders there too. It could have been a situation of sticking together since no one else wants them around.

CGL wrote:

--- Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
> For example, when I first started posting AMC, I
> received a comment that it
> was a well-written story but *so AU* because
> *everyone knows that Feanor was
> a terrible father!*

I've never really understood this fanon. I can see
him as strict, sure, and demanding, and with a few
temper flare-ups here and there, but terrible? To
judge by the oath-swearing, his sons clearly adored
him. They gladly went to their deaths for him. Why
would they show so much devotion to and admiration for
a terrible father? I believe he expected quite a bit
from his children, and wanted them to share in his
success. But having high standards and being a
loving, supportive parent are not mutually exclusive.

CGL

__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-692696754-1212695903=:3393-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1879 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4143 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 20:06:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 20:06:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.178) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 20:06:54 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 20:06:54 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 20:06:54 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 20:06:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:06:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=bFJXfffJOopkteN9nEJNV_f2pD201R5KciNblEoj7WOn_BI X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "wolfwindha" wrote: > Actually, the genres and warnings are one of my favorite thi= ngs about fanfiction! You're > absolutely right, in original fiction the= re is almost no way to know what's there until one > starts reading... = > > So I really appreciate all of you who jump through the hoops and clic= k the little boxes even > though it seems pointless to you; it's a big hel= p to me! Interesting point - yes, I can see that if you want to different= iate story content, the labelling is definitely useful. Since I'll read = pretty much whatever, it's not really an issue for me. But then, checking = the boxes isn't a major issue either, so I'm not advocating that authors d= on't do so. I'm just curious about *why* it happens - and perhaps part of= the answer is that being able to extract information/stories you *want* = from the internet is important. So defining search terms for postings is s= tandard practise, and placing stories in categories is a natural developme= nt. I think I would be nervous about such a thing used for censorship, but= used for information retrieval it is clearly a good thing. A way of filt= ering information (whether it's technical data or stories you want to read= ) is always handy! Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1880 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58056 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2008 20:21:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2008 20:21:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.148) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2008 20:21:39 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 20:21:39 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 20:21:39 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2008 20:21:39 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:21:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=0QJjR_qnjEpHfE6IugE_920gvt8jeqE-dAheGT8siR0W_-M X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > Though this post of Marta's might interest you:> > http= ://telperion1.livejournal.com/97559.html > Oh, thanks for the link - many= interesting points. The idea that fanfic comes with a pre-existing paradi= gm strikes a chord. Yes - of course one expects certain pre-established ru= les to be followed... having an elf die of old age would be odd, to say th= e least! But also interesting was the link to ALA. Avoiding bias in rating= s (of any kind at all) is clearly a significant difficulty! > > (*Tries t= o remember that I do not need to > > deconstruct the universe, I merely nee= d to live in it...*) > > Oh, but why? That's no fun! ;) > No - but it get= s more stuff done! I am infinitely distractable otherwise! Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1881 Return-Path: X-Sender: WolfwindHA@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87059 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 00:44:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 00:44:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n25b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.238) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 00:44:10 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 00:44:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 00:44:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 00:44:10 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 00:44:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "wolfwindha" Subject: Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=239734965; y=uWUlKPUk5gCt4fJeuSfNSpDcizDoBYNVFpRfnq7fu9P_PON2Dv5SrPQ X-Yahoo-Profile: wolfwindha --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wro= te: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "wolfwindha" > In= teresting point - yes, I can see that if you want to differentiate > story= content, the labelling is definitely useful. ... > I think I would be ner= vous about such a thing used for censorship, but > used for information re= trieval it is clearly a good thing. A way of > filtering information (whet= her it's technical data or stories you want > to read) is always handy! T= hat's a great point, Moreth. I think there are lots of reasons that warnin= gs developed, but it makes sense that since we're on the Internet, we're u= sed to search terms and labels and categories. And so the genres and warn= ings are one result of that. Makes it easier to find what you're looking = for! Wolfwind From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1882 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20345 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 00:50:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 00:50:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.168) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 00:50:38 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 27so722175wfd.4 for ; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:50:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.216.9 with SMTP id o9mr828319wfg.93.1212713437435; Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:50:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jun 2008 17:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806051750m9e9ca91o191bf71dd64dc2ac@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 19:50:37 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: fb66990143d21656 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=7aIyB__tpHBo79mrtRCgHdkE812TSVZPPM_5L3VD9efGVg X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel I think Wolfwind has made an important point - that the 'warnings' probably draw as much or more readership as they might send away. Sulriel On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:44 PM, wolfwindha wrote: > categories. And so the genres and warnings are one result of that. Makes it easier to find > what you're looking for! > > Wolfwind > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1883 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85692 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 14:43:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 14:43:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n50c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.184) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 14:43:04 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n50.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 14:43:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 14:43:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 14:43:04 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 14:43:01 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0806051750m9e9ca91o191bf71dd64dc2ac@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=kiraP9y4q3l3P8Bj8N37kE8oT46iBrzo0B2NRU30_qjigH4 X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel I agree; while I think that it's unreasonable for a reader to tear into an = author for all of the reasons we've been discussing -- rather than just cli= cking the back button if they stumble upon something that they don't like -= - it also seems unreasonable to expect that people should try things even t= hough they know that they are predisposed to not enjoy it. So I support th= e labels and categorizations, imperfect though they might be, because they = provide useful guidance. I can see how they've become de rigueur, to the p= oint where some readers operate with ridiculous and rather mindless expecta= tions for every little thing to be flagged and loaded with caveats and warn= ings; but it's inevitable that sometimes people lose sight of the origins a= nd purpose of an endeavor (here, people reading and writing for the fun of = it). Sorry to harp on with the food analogies, but it really does seem ap= propriate here. My roommate doesn't like fruit, without exception. She do= esn't like fruit-flavored things. To me this is incomprehensible, because = I love fruit! But if I'm baking a dessert that I want her to be able to eat= , I don't make a cherry pie. If I want to make a fruity dessert, I know sh= e's not going to eat it, and that's okay too, since I'm usually not baking = specifically for her. When my roommate is out in the wider world, she's = on her own for ferreting out and avoiding fruity things. I'm sure she's sp= at out many a biteful because of her dislike of oranges, bananas, etc. Tha= t's her problem. But I would never make something and then offer it to her= while withholding info that I know she'd like to have. I think that in th= e fanfiction community we know that a lot of folks like to avoid Certain Th= ings. Some of the readership are underage, too. For that reason the label= s seem appropriate. When people who don't like to read about torture or ho= mosexual sex or happy, skipping hobbits are in the bookstore, they're on th= eir own, but here we can accommodate them by applying categories that have = emerged as meaningful signals, even if the categories seem stifling or guar= anteed to limit the audience. The likelihood that someone who doesn't like = bananas might find that she likes my really awesome banana bread if only sh= e'd give it a try is pretty low. And it would be rather presumptuous of me= to insist that she try it, don't you think? My banana bread will only be = enjoyed by people who like (or at least do not hate) bananas. --- In Sil= marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "S=FAlriel of Menegroth " wrote: > > I think Wolfwind has made an important point - that the 'war= nings' > probably draw as much or more readership as they might send away. = > > Sulriel > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:44 PM, wolfwindha wrote: > > categories. And so the genres and warnings are one result of= that. Makes it easier to find > > what you're looking for! > > > > Wolfwi= nd > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1884 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13075 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 15:26:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 15:26:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.177) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 15:26:03 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a73so601539pye.17 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 08:26:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.88.20 with SMTP id l20mr259841wab.114.1212765963069; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 08:26:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:26:02 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10143_8067743.1212765963070" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=FW1c63tr83mNCH33AJtwyUVsnumIdQc1dMpRN4itwgqwzdMsuTan X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_10143_8067743.1212765963070-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1885 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6906 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 15:47:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 15:47:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.174) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 15:47:12 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so1029733wfg.10 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 08:47:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.215.5 with SMTP id n5mr76144wfg.177.1212767232399; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 08:47:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806060847g402e881ch59468618e54167d4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:47:11 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <3c715e1e0806051750m9e9ca91o191bf71dd64dc2ac@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 594f2c91660fc1dc X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=Zqeu98ZW8CQaANkMMbeDZhCaYsWzCodL2pdn0qZGiTbhKA X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel Excellent Post Gwdhiel. I think this is a good analogy. Sulriel On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Gwidhiel wrote: > > When my roommate is out in the wider world, she's on her own for > ferreting out and avoiding fruity things. I'm sure she's spat out > many a biteful because of her dislike of oranges, bananas, etc. > That's her problem. But I would never make something and then offer > it to her while withholding info that I know she'd like to have. I > think that in the fanfiction community we know that a lot of folks > like to avoid Certain Things. Some of the readership are underage, > too. For that reason the labels seem appropriate. When people who > don't like to read about torture or homosexual sex or happy, skipping > hobbits are in the bookstore, they're on their own, but here we can > accommodate them by applying categories that have emerged as > meaningful signals, even if the categories seem stifling or guaranteed > to limit the audience. The likelihood that someone who doesn't like > bananas might find that she likes my really awesome banana bread if > only she'd give it a try is pretty low. And it would be rather > presumptuous of me to insist that she try it, don't you think? My > banana bread will only be enjoyed by people who like (or at least do > not hate) bananas. > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1886 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95134 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 15:53:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 15:53:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 15:53:47 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 15:53:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 15:53:47 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:53:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="7-4364439869-6216685523=:4" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=KUtJEAjbdxoATS5L2q8_r-EIhOtNT44dXWH5A6ybRQSufuo X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --7-4364439869-6216685523=:4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: Tastes change. They absolutely do. I liked your green be= an story, and have several similar experiences. And sometimes one does fin= d oneself in a position where you have to try to get the hated vegetable (o= r in my case: eggs) into your mouth. And sometimes you're pleasantly surpr= ised! But that's an internally driven and determined process that isn't go= ing to be helped by people constantly saying, "you'll never know unless you= try..." or by sneaking a little bit of green bean into a tuna casserole t= hat you'd otherwise like. If I knew that you didn't like green beans, I wo= uldn't try to serve them to you. But if we were out at a restaurant and yo= u saw me really enjoying the haricots verts that accompanied my steak, you = might find that you were curious about them ... and maybe you'd want to try= a bit. I tried a bit of my boyfriend's fluffy omelette at brunch a couple= of weekends ago, because he was so clearly enjoying it. And I thought ... = "hmmm... still not really for me, but also not that bad!" But he knew bett= er than to plop it on my plate and tell me that I really ought to try it. = Someone who participates in fanfiction communities might find themselves sl= owly drawn to a genre that they initially thought they'd want to have nothi= ng to do with. But if it comes at all, that transition has to come from wi= thin -- and I personally think that it's much more likely to occur when a p= erson consciously says, "OK ... I've never liked the idea of slash, but I'v= e run out of good stories to read, and everyone's been talking about what a= great story "Another Man's Cage" is ... so I'm going to check it out. I'l= l probably have to skip over the really graphic parts, but I'll give it a s= hot ..." My only point is that people are less likely to find they like so= mething that they think they hate if it's sprung on them. They first have = to make the choice to give it a shot. So the labels are useful guidance, e= ither for keeping away from things one wishes to avoid, or for giving somet= hing new a try. Dawn, your point about the Big Five personality traits is = a very good one; and there's considerable evidence that an individual's sta= nding on these five dimensions has a genetic component. Some people just a= ren't adventurous in general, or are cautious about certain things, while o= thers happily jump in, consuming novel foods and ideas with glee. When it = comes to the Big Five traits, there is no "optimal" amount of any of them -= - different amounts will serve well in some contexts and not-so-well in oth= ers. Those of us who are more adventurous about the foods we try, or the s= tories that we read, might think that those who are reluctant to leave thei= r comfort zones are missing out -- and maybe they are. But unless and unti= l they decide that they might want to partake of things they've previously = avoided, they're not missing out on anything that they're going to like. = --7-4364439869-6216685523=:4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote:

Tastes change.
 They absolutely do.  I liked your green bean story, and have sever= al similar experiences.  And sometimes one does find oneself in a posi= tion where you have to try to get the hated vegetable (or in my case: = eggs) into your mouth. And sometimes you're pleasantly surprised! 
But that's an internally driven and determined process that isn't goi= ng to be helped by people constantly saying, "you'll never know unless you = try..."  or by sneaking a little bit of green bean into a tuna cassero= le that you'd otherwise like.  If I knew that you didn't like green be= ans, I wouldn't try to serve them to you.  But if we were out at a res= taurant and you saw me really enjoying the haricots verts that accompanied = my steak, you might find that you were curious about them ... and maybe you= 'd want to try a bit.  I tried a bit of my boyfriend's fluffy omelette= at brunch a couple of weekends ago, because he was so clearly enjoying it.= And I thought ... "hmmm... still not really for me, but also not that bad!= "  But he knew better than to plop it on my plate and tell me that I r= eally ought to try it.

Someone who participates in fanfiction commun= ities might find themselves slowly drawn to a genre that they initially tho= ught they'd want to have nothing to do with.  But if it comes at all, = that transition has to come from within -- and I personally think that it's= much more likely to occur when a person consciously says, "OK ... I've nev= er liked the idea of slash, but I've run out of good stories to read, and e= veryone's been talking about what a great story "Another Man's Cage" is ...= so I'm going to check it out.  I'll probably have to skip over the re= ally graphic parts, but I'll give it a shot ..."

My only point is t= hat people are less likely to find they like something that they thi= nk they hate if it's sprung on them.  They first have to make the choi= ce to give it a shot.  So the labels are useful guidance, either for k= eeping away from things one wishes to avoid, or for giving something= new a try.

Dawn, your point about the Big Five personality traits i= s a very good one; and there's considerable evidence that an individual's s= tanding on these five dimensions has a genetic component.  Some people= just aren't adventurous in general, or are cautious about certain things, = while others happily jump in, consuming novel foods and ideas with glee.&nb= sp; When it comes to the Big Five traits, there is no "optimal" amount of a= ny of them -- different amounts will serve well in some contexts and not-so= -well in others.  Those of us who are more adventurous about the foods= we try, or the stories that we read, might think that those who are reluct= ant to leave their comfort zones are missing out -- and maybe they are.&nbs= p; But unless and until they decide that they might want to partake of thin= gs they've previously avoided, they're not missing out on anything that the= y're going to like.


--7-4364439869-6216685523=:4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1887 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61387 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 17:21:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 17:21:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n26a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.240) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 17:21:42 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n26.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 17:21:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 17:21:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 17:21:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:21:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="2-8236420564-6379476115=:1" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=J1O5i-tRZXALEkj8OYOr2rodLFBAk8jVFPvwnln69VOgjfY X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --2-8236420564-6379476115=:1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, Dawn, I just realized there was another thing I wanted to respond to in= your post: --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagun= d" wrote: >If you > hate a particular food flavor, that = flavor isn't going to change all the > much depending on how it is made. A = banana tastes like a banana, whether > it's in bread or ice cream or eaten = by itself. But the *subject* of a piece > of fiction isn't all that makes u= p a story; it is further shaped by the > author's style or skill with writi= ng, among other things. So a Hobbit story > "tastes" differently, depending= on who writes it. > I disagree; first I think that a banana can taste quit= e different depending on what it's paired with and how it's prepared. Ther= e is still an essential "banana-ness" to it, but that quality can be magnif= ied or diluted depending on the dish, and that might be what makes or break= s it for some people, who can take a bit of banana, but not too much, while= others just looooove their bananas. [;)] Likewise, although you or I mig= ht feel that the subject/theme/characters involved in a story don't in and = of themselves constitute the primary experience a reader will have with tha= t story, that might be because particular themes, etc. aren't as salient/ir= ritating/whatever for us as they are for some people. For example, I don'= t have a problem, a priori, with rape stories, although I wouldn't rate tha= t as a favorite subject of mine. But I can very easily imagine that lots o= f people find them to be very disturbing and not at all something that they= 'd want to even consider exploring. They know that, no matter how deftly ha= ndled by the author, rape is not something they want to think about. I thi= nk they're justified in maintaining that position. Now, someone who has a = strongly negative, visceral reaction to Hobbit stories might not be grant= ed the leeway that most of us would probably grant to someone who's got iss= ues with rape ... but that doesn't mean that they're going to enjoy a Hobbi= t story just because it's well-written. (Of course, if they hate hobbits s= o much I'd have to wonder how they managed to become Tolkien fans in the fi= rst place ... but that's neither here nor there, I guess!). --2-8236420564-6379476115=:1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, Dawn, I just realized there was another thing I wanted to respond to in= your post: 

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, = "Dawn Felagund" wrote:
>If you
> ha= te a particular food flavor, that flavor isn't going to change all the
&= gt; much depending on how it is made. A banana tastes like a banana, whethe= r
> it's in bread or ice cream or eaten by itself. But the *subject* = of a piece
> of fiction isn't all that makes up a story; it is furthe= r shaped by the
> author's style or skill with writing, among other t= hings. So a Hobbit story
> "tastes" differently, depending on who wri= tes it.
>
I disagree; first I think that a banana can taste q= uite different depending on what it's paired with and how it's prepared.&nb= sp; There is still an essential "banana-ness" to it, but that quality can b= e magnified or diluted depending on the dish, and that might be what makes = or breaks it for some people, who can take a bit of banana, but not too muc= h, while others just looooove their bananas. 3D";)"

Likewise, although you or I might feel that the subject/theme/c= haracters involved in a story don't in and of themselves constitute the pri= mary experience a reader will have with that story, that might be because p= articular themes, etc. aren't as salient/irritating/whatever for us as they= are for some people.   For example, I don't have a problem, a priori,= with rape stories, although I wouldn't rate that as a favorite subject of = mine.  But I can very easily imagine that lots of people find them to = be very disturbing and not at all something that they'd want to even consid= er exploring. They know that, no matter how deftly handled by the author, r= ape is not something they want to think about.  I think they're justif= ied in maintaining that position.

Now, someone who has a strongly ne= gative, visceral reaction to  Hobbit stories  might not be grante= d the leeway that most of us would probably grant to someone who's got issu= es with rape ... but that doesn't mean that they're going to enjoy a Hobbit= story just because it's well-written.  (Of course, if they hate hobbi= ts so much I'd have to wonder how they managed to become Tolkien fans in th= e first place ... but that's neither here nor there, I guess!).
--2-8236420564-6379476115=:1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1888 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37488 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 17:31:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 17:31:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.168) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 17:31:38 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 27so1113174wfd.31 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:31:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.193.13 with SMTP id q13mr120823wff.103.1212773498425; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:31:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806061031i19132f7ch20060c506d8337d7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:31:38 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_14517_13846069.1212773498416" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9ba6798d5d640603 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=WK8uahIbSpRs0e5bRdiwGOVQVC4aGvlkQ-MYA07uNd8t9w X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_14517_13846069.1212773498416-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1889 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36063 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 17:34:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 17:34:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.97) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 17:34:05 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 85707 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jun 2008 17:34:02 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 86UvTvQVM1neQwynbuhuFdqF2P910TTV5jwR.rW7P9lH9JJmDFwt7nGNxNh.dL8CMhWqSeWBweGVLfB5bglO3g2ySlcZ_JU_HeKWUI11J60FRkDHE5M9jdk- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:34:01 PDT Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:34:01 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1898371435-1212773641=:85467" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <35455.85467.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=7_82bJPOewIyDz0-7B1HRJrJHbukoTcAs79-yjDhjutOdIrAGQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1898371435-1212773641=:85467 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Now, someone who has a strongly negative, visceral reaction to Hobbit stories might not be granted the leeway that most of us would probably grant to someone who's got issues with rape ... but that doesn't mean that they're going to enjoy a Hobbit story just because it's well-written. (Of course, if they hate hobbits so much I'd have to wonder how they managed to become Tolkien fans in the first place ... but that's neither here nor there, I guess!). I wonder this myself. Although I prefer elves and men to hobbits, I can't understand why some people say they would *never* read hobbit fic or elf fics because that is part of Tolkien's world. And I cannot understand warnings that would naturally occur in the movies or books - like character death, action, battle scenes, drama, angst, etc etc. Although I do follow the rules and if I have character death in the story I put it as a warning. But I still don't get it since all of those were in the books and in the movie in vivid color. Peter Jackson didn't warn us beforehand that Haldir was going to die - which was a big surprise to those who read the books and had no knowledge Haldir would even be in Helm's Deep, much less die. I was more disturbed by Shelob's 'gooey-ness' than I was by the battle scenes. I understand ratings and I do give warnings when I give graphic details of sex or the one time I wrote rape scenes. But if you are on an adult website, reading an NC17 fiction, you should expect it to live up to the rating. And there are tons of fiction that is G, PG13 or R, there are even websites that don't allow anything above an R, so I don't understand the problem with warnings. Gwidhiel wrote: Oh, Dawn, I just realized there was another thing I wanted to respond to in your post: --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: >If you > hate a particular food flavor, that flavor isn't going to change all the > much depending on how it is made. A banana tastes like a banana, whether > it's in bread or ice cream or eaten by itself. But the *subject* of a piece > of fiction isn't all that makes up a story; it is further shaped by the > author's style or skill with writing, among other things. So a Hobbit story > "tastes" differently, depending on who writes it. > I disagree; first I think that a banana can taste quite different depending on what it's paired with and how it's prepared. There is still an essential "banana-ness" to it, but that quality can be magnified or diluted depending on the dish, and that might be what makes or breaks it for some people, who can take a bit of banana, but not too much, while others just looooove their bananas. Likewise, although you or I might feel that the subject/theme/characters involved in a story don't in and of themselves constitute the primary experience a reader will have with that story, that might be because particular themes, etc. aren't as salient/irritating/whatever for us as they are for some people. For example, I don't have a problem, a priori, with rape stories, although I wouldn't rate that as a favorite subject of mine. But I can very easily imagine that lots of people find them to be very disturbing and not at all something that they'd want to even consider exploring. They know that, no matter how deftly handled by the author, rape is not something they want to think about. I think they're justified in maintaining that position. Now, someone who has a strongly negative, visceral reaction to Hobbit stories might not be granted the leeway that most of us would probably grant to someone who's got issues with rape ... but that doesn't mean that they're going to enjoy a Hobbit story just because it's well-written. (Of course, if they hate hobbits so much I'd have to wonder how they managed to become Tolkien fans in the first place ... but that's neither here nor there, I guess!). ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1898371435-1212773641=:85467 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Now, someone who has a strongly negative, visceral reaction to  Hobbit stories  might not be granted the leeway that most of us would probably grant to someone who's got issues with rape ... but that doesn't mean that they're going to enjoy a Hobbit story just because it's well-written.  (Of course, if they hate hobbits so much I'd have to wonder how they managed to become Tolkien fans in the first place ... but that's neither here nor there, I guess!).
I wonder this myself. Although I prefer elves and men to hobbits, I can't understand why some people say they would *never* read hobbit fic or elf fics because that is part of Tolkien's world. And I cannot understand warnings that would naturally occur in the movies or books - like character death, action, battle scenes, drama, angst, etc etc. Although I do follow the rules and if I have character death in the story I put it as a warning. But I still don't get it since all of those were in the books and in the movie in vivid color. Peter Jackson didn't warn us beforehand that Haldir was going to die - which was a big surprise to those who read the books and had no knowledge Haldir would even be in Helm's Deep, much less die. I was more disturbed by Shelob's 'gooey-ness' than I was by the battle scenes. I understand ratings and I do give warnings when I give graphic details of sex or the one time I wrote rape scenes. But if you are on an adult website, reading an NC17 fiction, you should expect it to live up to the rating. And there are tons of fiction that is G, PG13 or R, there are even websites that don't allow anything above an R, so I don't understand the problem with warnings.
 
 

Gwidhiel wrote:
Oh, Dawn, I just realized there was another thing I wanted to respond to in your post: 

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" ...> wrote:
>If you
> hate a particular food flavor, that flavor isn't going to change all the
> much depending on how it is made. A banana tastes like a banana, whether
> it's in bread or ice cream or eaten by itself. But the *subject* of a piece
> of fiction isn't all that makes up a story; it is further shaped by the
> author's style or skill with writing, among other things. So a Hobbit story
> "tastes" differently, depending on who writes it.
>
I disagree; first I think that a banana can taste quite different depending on what it's paired with and how it's prepared.  There is still an essential "banana-ness" to it, but that quality can be magnified or diluted depending on the dish, and that might be what makes or breaks it for some people, who can take a bit of banana, but not too much, while others just looooove their bananas. ;)

Likewise, although you or I might feel that the subject/theme/characters involved in a story don't in and of themselves constitute the primary experience a reader will have with that story, that might be because particular themes, etc. aren't as salient/irritating/whatever for us as they are for some people.   For example, I don't have a problem, a priori, with rape stories, although I wouldn't rate that as a favorite subject of mine.  But I can very easily imagine that lots of people find them to be very disturbing and not at all something that they'd want to even consider exploring. They know that, no matter how deftly handled by the author, rape is not something they want to think about.  I think they're justified in maintaining that position.

Now, someone who has a strongly negative, visceral reaction to  Hobbit stories  might not be granted the leeway that most of us would probably grant to someone who's got issues with rape ... but that doesn't mean that they're going to enjoy a Hobbit story just because it's well-written.  (Of course, if they hate hobbits so much I'd have to wonder how they managed to become Tolkien fans in the first place ... but that's neither here nor there, I guess!).



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1898371435-1212773641=:85467-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1890 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21281 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 17:43:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 17:43:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.132) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 17:43:37 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 17:43:37 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 17:43:37 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 17:43:37 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:43:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <35455.85467.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-9618245572-1121284766=:5" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=DvWcppjEEDUGnXj0_jFUhagsQM4VHJoH7ldIgK6CgNvZR-w X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --0-9618245572-1121284766=:5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > I was more disturbed by Shelob's 'gooey-ness' than I was by the= battle scenes. Oh man, me too! I think there should have been a Disgusti= ng Arachnid warning. I would have greatly preferred less Spider Realism. = Not looking forward to that part of The Hobbit when they film it. > But if= you are on an adult website, reading an NC17 > fiction, you should expect= it to live up to the rating. I absolutely agree -- people do need to take= responsibility for their reading choices. >And there are tons of fiction = that is G, PG13 or R, there are even websites that don't allow anything abo= ve an R, >so I don't understand the problem with warnings. Oh, I think I'm= lost a bit -- do you mean that general movie-style ratings should suffice,= such that people who are disturbed by, e.g. rape scenes, should never read= an NC-17 rated story? --0-9618245572-1121284766=:5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote:
>
I was more disturbed by Shelob's 'gooey-ne= ss' than I was by the battle scenes.

Oh man, me too!  I th= ink there should have been a Disgusting Arachnid warning.  I would hav= e greatly preferred less Spider Realism.  Not looking forward to that = part of The Hobbit when they film it.

> But if you are on an a= dult website, reading an NC17
> fiction, you should expect it to liv= e up to the rating.

I absolutely agree -- people do need to tak= e responsibility for their reading choices. 

>And there = are tons of fiction that is G, PG13 or R, there are even websites that don'= t allow anything above an R, >so I don't understand the problem with war= nings.

Oh, I think I'm lost a bit -- do you mean that general m= ovie-style ratings should suffice, such that people who are disturbed by, e= .g. rape scenes, should never read an NC-17 rated story?
--0-9618245572-1121284766=:5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1891 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4375 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 17:46:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 17:46:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56807.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.81) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 17:46:02 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 42507 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jun 2008 17:45:59 -0000 X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56807.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:45:58 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:45:58 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-779150140-1212774358=:42236" Message-ID: <90861.42236.qm@web56807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Viv Reply-To: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=OF-4yS1irNNxozCCIpwFBOc8DThtgXAMldVyvixlsDGBVcI3zcm6bl_bDhfO X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess --0-779150140-1212774358=:42236 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Depends on who is doing the expecting. A writer shouldn't expect much of readers, but I think readers should expect something of themselves. A person is a better person for trying new things and broadening his or her range of experiences. My toddlers sing a dorky song: "Try it, you'll like it. Try it and you just might like it." I think that about sums up a good response to any art (not to mention broccoli). viv  > it also seems unreasonable to expect that people > should try things even though they know that they are predisposed to > not enjoy it. --0-779150140-1212774358=:42236 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Depends on who is doing the expecting. A writer shouldn't expect much of readers, but I think readers should expect something of themselves. A person is a better person for trying new things and broadening his or her range of experiences. My toddlers sing a dorky song: "Try it, you'll like it. Try it and you just might like it." I think that about sums up a good response to any art (not to mention broccoli).

viv

 > it also seems unreasonable to expect that people
> should try things even though they know that they are predisposed to
> not enjoy it.

--0-779150140-1212774358=:42236-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1892 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88476 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 17:49:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 17:49:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56806.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.80) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 17:49:37 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 32651 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jun 2008 17:49:37 -0000 X-Received: from [66.25.190.46] by web56806.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:49:36 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:49:36 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-659406123-1212774576=:32615" Message-ID: <53094.32615.qm@web56806.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Viv Reply-To: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=xOStAurxbcNcy1PkbuylyEv26OrpgKX9WWtxuSaSc84bz-KeJxVsocJQjimh X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess --0-659406123-1212774576=:32615 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii And this is why one should always read all previous replies on a thread before submitting one. Sorry for repeating Dawn (even down to the vegetable analogy). :) viv http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama --- On Fri, 6/6/08, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories?) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 10:26 AM Because I had tried green beans myriad different ways and hated them all, so why would this recipe be different?   And guess what? I loved them. My husband makes them almost every week as a side dish, and I've found that I'm warming up to green beans done other ways too.   Tastes change. --0-659406123-1212774576=:32615 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
And this is why one should always read all previous replies on a thread before submitting one. Sorry for repeating Dawn (even down to the vegetable analogy). :)

viv

http://www.livejournal.com/users/spacellama

--- On Fri, 6/6/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories?)
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 10:26 AM
Because I had tried green beans myriad different ways and hated them all, so why would this recipe be different?
 
And guess what? I loved them. My husband makes them almost every week as a side dish, and I've found that I'm warming up to green beans done other ways too.
 
Tastes change.
--0-659406123-1212774576=:32615-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1893 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40802 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 17:58:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 17:58:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 17:58:52 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 35566 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jun 2008 17:58:51 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: RHxpS_8VM1nRJFnpkmV.zxBSAwl1GvguaYWUVPjaiEtnXRUDDudvkVHokmfKRMJCtD7rqASiUF9pZwrchQ8wGrXFVwRt5qg1otzjdy0A.vmDQnuZbqGuNCc- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:58:51 PDT Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:58:51 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-966313128-1212775131=:25198" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <799463.25198.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=E3NFTlQcja1sfRv1_LxOAdsAGidEIdf48Db_Anhjcm3OjxefFA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-966313128-1212775131=:25198 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit And there are tons of fiction that is G, PG13 or R, there are even websites that don't allow anything above an R, >so I don't understand the problem with warnings. Oh, I think I'm lost a bit -- do you mean that general movie-style ratings should suffice, such that people who are disturbed by, e.g. rape scenes, should never read an NC-17 rated story? No I understand about things like rape being in the warnings. I meant things like character death or anything you saw in the movies or was in the books. Or if you know there is sex in it and its NC17 then they might assume that the sex is graphic. If it wasnt graphic it would be rated R or PG13 IMO. To me thats like someone reading a slash story and being shocked that two males (or females) are sexually or romantically linked. But yeah I agree about warning about rape. Gwidhiel wrote: --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > I was more disturbed by Shelob's 'gooey-ness' than I was by the battle scenes. Oh man, me too! I think there should have been a Disgusting Arachnid warning. I would have greatly preferred less Spider Realism. Not looking forward to that part of The Hobbit when they film it. > But if you are on an adult website, reading an NC17 > fiction, you should expect it to live up to the rating. I absolutely agree -- people do need to take responsibility for their reading choices. >And there are tons of fiction that is G, PG13 or R, there are even websites that don't allow anything above an R, >so I don't understand the problem with warnings. Oh, I think I'm lost a bit -- do you mean that general movie-style ratings should suffice, such that people who are disturbed by, e.g. rape scenes, should never read an NC-17 rated story? ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-966313128-1212775131=:25198 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

And there are tons of fiction that is G, PG13 or R, there are even websites that don't allow anything above an R, >so I don't understand the problem with warnings.

Oh, I think I'm lost a bit -- do you mean that general movie-style ratings should suffice, such that people who are disturbed by, e.g. rape scenes, should never read an NC-17 rated story?
 
 
No I understand about things like rape being in the warnings. I meant things like character death or anything you saw in the movies or was in the books. Or if you know there is sex in it and its NC17 then they might assume that the sex is graphic. If it wasnt graphic it would be rated R or PG13 IMO. To me thats like someone reading a slash story and being shocked that two males (or females) are sexually or romantically linked.
 
But yeah I agree about warning about rape.

Gwidhiel wrote:

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 ..> wrote:
>
I was more disturbed by Shelob's 'gooey-ness' than I was by the battle scenes.

Oh man, me too!  I think there should have been a Disgusting Arachnid warning.  I would have greatly preferred less Spider Realism.  Not looking forward to that part of The Hobbit when they film it.

> But if you are on an adult website, reading an NC17
> fiction, you should expect it to live up to the rating.

I absolutely agree -- people do need to take responsibility for their reading choices. 

>And there are tons of fiction that is G, PG13 or R, there are even websites that don't allow anything above an R, >so I don't understand the problem with warnings.

Oh, I think I'm lost a bit -- do you mean that general movie-style ratings should suffice, such that people who are disturbed by, e.g. rape scenes, should never read an NC-17 rated story?



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-966313128-1212775131=:25198-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1894 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65976 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 18:04:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 18:04:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n11d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.60) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 18:04:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 18:04:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 18:04:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:04:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <799463.25198.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5-3466571912-0045278073=:7" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=Pq9OWHMpwDqZ6KZ8L2tZ2-RqSp4-KgNeV-S5uQv0XkXSt2I X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --5-3466571912-0045278073=:7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > No I understand about things like rape being in the warnings.= I meant things like character death or anything you saw in the movies or w= as in the books. Or if you know there is sex in it and its NC17 then they m= ight assume that the sex is graphic. If it wasnt graphic it would be rated = R or PG13 IMO. To me thats like someone reading a slash story and being sho= cked that two males (or females) are sexually or romantically linked. > I'm= absolutely with you there, Alassante! Anyone who reads a story labeled "s= lash" should expect same-sex pairings, just like someone reading an R-rated= story shouldn't be shocked because someone died. I think your point about= a standard being set by what is in the books is a good one. --5-3466571912-0045278073=:7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote:

> No I understand about things like rape bein= g in the warnings. I meant things like character death or anything you saw = in the movies or was in the books. Or if you know there is sex in it and it= s NC17 then they might assume that the sex is graphic. If it wasnt graphic = it would be rated R or PG13 IMO. To me thats like someone reading a slash s= tory and being shocked that two males (or females) are sexually or romantic= ally linked.
>
I'm absolutely with you there, Alassante!&= nbsp; Anyone who reads a story labeled "slash" should expect same-sex pairi= ngs, just like someone reading an R-rated story shouldn't be shocked becaus= e someone died. 

I think your point about a standard being set= by what is in the books is a good one. 
--5-3466571912-0045278073=:7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1895 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45600 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 18:13:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 18:13:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 18:13:08 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n4so821121wag.5 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:13:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.146.1 with SMTP id t1mr588091wad.30.1212775956433; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:12:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 14:12:36 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0806061031i19132f7ch20060c506d8337d7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11151_4614509.1212775956410" References: <3c715e1e0806061031i19132f7ch20060c506d8337d7@mail.gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=iu9ntn-UEFm30j-qGWrFQBPLg9nHZ3sf_uxMdSvDaDf66GOctbHR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11151_4614509.1212775956410-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1896 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70895 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 18:14:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 18:14:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.181) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 18:14:34 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k22so796082waf.20 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:14:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.25.19 with SMTP id 19mr516922way.225.1212776055027; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:14:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 14:14:14 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <90861.42236.qm@web56807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11158_8545025.1212776054993" References: <90861.42236.qm@web56807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Sto... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=u3EQuyytZa0sRnlXNqckLPhpBQMUt-3XJdFODqEgi1o2SGMgQr8u X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11158_8545025.1212776054993-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1897 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54532 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 21:54:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 21:54:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.171) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 21:54:48 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so1084128wfc.22 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 14:54:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.188.4 with SMTP id l4mr213765wff.151.1212789287959; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 14:54:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 14:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 17:54:47 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5310_25328321.1212789287944" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=AWAug4PUXLvWP5F4l-ExtyhF0PV_dcEzNoYN9HgxgOI3lHCbFZDt X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_5310_25328321.1212789287944-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1898 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48153 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 22:40:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 22:40:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.170) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 22:40:39 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 27so1117071wfd.17 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:40:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.162.9 with SMTP id k9mr223907wfe.211.1212792039691; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:40:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 15:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806061540s204d16d9v96db56575b83406a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 17:40:39 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <35455.85467.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_16884_21716704.1212792039669" References: <35455.85467.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5c9f408c0a00f271 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=wXPb9RNio_ZUBa3tCsWYA-nihK6MdD1eJueDqB_WzBk-ww X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_16884_21716704.1212792039669-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1899 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87497 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 23:04:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 23:04:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n12.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.139) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 23:04:12 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n12.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 23:04:11 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 23:04:11 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2008 23:04:11 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:04:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="4-0844729053-0251773953=:8" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=9WSCiPuXSvjAu8ZZDtWMIQFoospf4XKqCBOroKX-PGXEN-c X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --4-0844729053-0251773953=:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > PS--Thank you for being such a willing participant in = talking about this ... > and this goes for everyone participating in this d= iscussion as well! We've > touched on some topics that tend to start flamew= ars, bandying about a > variety of opinions, and I think it says a lot abou= t all of you that no > fistfights have broken out. Thank you! :) > I moved= this to the front because I, too, am grateful to be discussing this in a f= orum where people maintain respect for each other even when they're not see= ing eye to eye on what could be an emotional subject. I used to be a moder= ator/site director on a relationship discussion forum ... oh my, the flame = wars! ... no good. Perhaps people here are a bit better at expressing them= selves without getting too worked up to avoid resorting to ad hominem insul= ts because this group's focus is writing and reading fiction! Whatever the= reason, I definitely appreciate it. > On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Gw= idhiel gwidhiel@... wrote: > Hmmm ... I don't know that I'm willing to put= stories about rape (or > torture, incest, or other "triggering" topics) in= the same category as > stories about Hobbits or slash or AU, et cetera. F= rom a clinical perspective, of course not. But we're not in a clinical or = even pseudo-clinical setting, and I believe we're still talking about the m= erits of a) applying various categorization labels to stories, and b) vario= us readers' willingness to read different genres (or, rather, some readers'= unwillingness to read stories that contain certain themes or premises) >T= he former are things that > could actually induce anxiety in someone who's = had experience with them. The > latter are things that a reader might not l= ike, but I doubt anyone's going > to be traumatized for reading them. I te= nd to eschew slavish adherence to dogmatic PC dictates or mindless post-mod= ern relativism; that is to say, Dawn, I agree with you that some things are= genuinely traumatizing while others are merely troubling, and to conflate = the two is to disregard the extraordinary pain that comes from real trauma.= We've all felt pain, great pain, but I wouldn't put my various instances = of broken hearts, food poisonings, or attempted muggings on a par with what= a rape victim has been through. OK, so with that caveat in place... I wan= t to suggest that just because you or I don't find slash to be disturbing, = doesn't mean that we can really understand how threatening or wrong it appe= ars to be to some people. To be clear: I'm not for a moment suggesting th= at someone who finds slash fiction, happy hobbits, or even bananas [O:)] = to be distasteful ought to be handled with the same degree of care and conc= ern that someone who has had to cope with suicide or rape ought to expect. = But I do think they ought to be afforded enough respect that others assume= they know their own minds now, in this moment, and to know what their pref= erences are. Perhaps in 6 months' time they'll find they're not so squeami= sh about it -- because you're absolutely right that tastes can change. But= they don't always. > To continue with your food analogies :^D ... you men= tioned in an earlier > post food allergies: people who can't tolerate inges= ting something that's > been *touched* by the food in question. And then yo= u mentioned taste > aversions, like your roommate who can't stand fruit. Bu= t I see a big > difference between the two. No one dies for dislike of bana= nas. And no one > has flashbacks because of Elf stories set in Rivendell ..= . or it's not > likely, anyway, although someone who's endured the tutelage= of Master > Erestor of fanon lore well might. ;) > Hee hee, I'd happily b= e tutored by Erestor! And again, you're right about the difference between= a life-threatening food allergy and a mere dislike of bananas. A weakness= in my food analogy ... but wait, (I don't give up easily), how about this:= what do you do with a vegetarian? I am not a vegetarian, I love pork far= too much, but my sister has been a vegetarian for more than 17 years. She= does not eat any meat. I respect that, even though it's not a preference = I share. I would never try to serve her anything that had even a little bi= t of meat in it -- no drop of chicken broth, no stray bit of worcester sauc= e (anchovies). Would my sister be harmed if she consumed a tiny bit of ani= mal protein? In all likelihood, no. But it would violate a choice that sh= e has made for herself. It's not up to me to make her choices for her (eve= n though I think she's missing out -- in fact one time I used that to my ad= vantage, when we were visiting our folks at home and my mom had bought some= de-li-cious Amish glazed donuts. The tasty secret is that they're fried i= n lard ... porky goodness abounds! But the donut isn't blatantly non-vege= tarian. As we each eyed the last donut, I commented to my sister that real= ly she shouldn't have eaten any of them, given the lard and all. She was bo= th aghast and chagrined. And I got the donut! >But I do think that, for >= many who don't like this or that for less profound reasons, there might be= > an example of this or that out there that they *would* like. Again, I'm= reluctant to label another person's reasons for disliking the things that = they dislike as being less meaningful to them ... not that you were saying = that, exactly. I just don't know why some people don't like what they don't= like, and when I don't know the reason for the dislike I can't judge how p= rofound it might be. >It's just a > question of digging through the hundre= ds of examples of this or that that > they *don't *like to find it ... so t= hey likely never will. And I can't > blame them for that. :) Very true. = > But, of course, this is 100% my opinion, and I am hampered also by the f= act > that I have read (and liked) an example of pretty much everything, an= d my > openness to experience on the Big Five is pretty darned high. ;) Ye= ah, someone who's high on openness, despite being very open to new things t= hey haven't experienced before, isn't going to really be able to "get" some= one who isn't as open to new things. We all inevitably have our blind spot= s. Try imagining being an illiterate adult, for example. The challenges th= ey face are actually unimaginable for those of us whose fluency is so stron= g that reading has become a semi-automated cognitive process. >I will > co= ntinue to say that I respect people's right to read or not read whatever > = they want. But if someone *is* willing to give something new a try, I'd > h= eartily support talking to someone really familiar with that particular > t= ype of story to get a variety of recommendations about stories that break >= the mold a little bit in that area and chancing to wander a bit upon roads= > less traveled. I have learned, in the past, that to say I can't ever ima= gine > liking something is as good as guaranteeing that I'll someday find s= omething > or someone to change my mind. When I was in high school, I swore= that I > didn't like fantasy novels, *especially *those by that fellow J.R= .R. > Tolkien. Look where that got me. ;) > Let's hear it for eating crow! = I'm an old hand at that. Especially good with bananas! [;)] --4-0844729053-0251773953=:8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote:
>
> PS--Thank you for being such a= willing participant in talking about this ...
> and this goes for ev= eryone participating in this discussion as well! We've
> touched on s= ome topics that tend to start flamewars, bandying about a
> variety o= f opinions, and I think it says a lot about all of you that no
> fist= fights have broken out. Thank you! :)
>

I moved this to t= he front because I, too, am grateful to be discussing this in a forum where= people maintain respect for each other even when they're not seeing eye to= eye on what could be an emotional subject.  I used to be a moderator/= site director on a relationship discussion forum ... oh my, the flame wars!= ... no good.

Perhaps people here are a bit better at expressing the= mselves without getting too worked up to avoid resorting to ad hominem insu= lts because this group's focus is writing and reading fiction!  Whatev= er the reason, I definitely appreciate it.


> On Fri, Jun 6, 2= 008 at 1:21 PM, Gwidhiel gwidhiel@... wrote:

> Hmmm ... I don'= t know that I'm willing to put stories about rape (or
> torture, ince= st, or other "triggering" topics) in the same category as
> stories a= bout Hobbits or slash or AU, et cetera.

From a clinical perspec= tive, of course not.  But we're not in a clinical or even pseudo-clini= cal setting, and I believe we're still talking about the merits of a) apply= ing various categorization labels to stories, and b) various readers' willi= ngness to read different genres (or, rather, some readers' unwillingness= to read stories that contain certain themes or premises)

>Th= e former are things that
> could actually induce anxiety in someone w= ho's had experience with them. The
> latter are things that a reader = might not like, but I doubt anyone's going
> to be traumatized for re= ading them.

I tend to eschew slavish adherence to dogmatic PC dictat= es or mindless post-modern relativism; that is to say, Dawn, I agree with y= ou that some things are genuinely traumatizing while others are merely trou= bling, and to conflate the two is to disregard the extraordinary pai= n that comes from real trauma.  We've all felt pain, great pain, but I= wouldn't put my various instances of broken hearts, food poisonings, or at= tempted muggings on a par with what a rape victim has been through.  O= K, so with that caveat in place... I want to suggest that just because you = or I don't find slash to be disturbing, doesn't mean that we can really und= erstand how threatening or wrong it appears to be to some people. 
To be clear:  I'm not for a moment suggesting that someone who fi= nds slash fiction, happy hobbits, or even bananas 3D"O:)" to be distasteful ought to be handled with the same degre= e of care and concern that someone who has had to cope with suicide or rape= ought to expect.  But I do think they ought to be afforded enough res= pect that others assume they know their own minds now, in this moment, and = to know what their preferences are.  Perhaps in 6 months' time they'll= find they're not so squeamish about it -- because you're absolutely right = that tastes can change.  But they don't always.
 
> T= o continue with your food analogies :^D ... you mentioned in an earlier
= > post food allergies: people who can't tolerate ingesting something tha= t's
> been *touched* by the food in question. And then you mentioned = taste
> aversions, like your roommate who can't stand fruit. But I se= e a big
> difference between the two. No one dies for dislike of bana= nas. And no one
> has flashbacks because of Elf stories set in Rivend= ell ... or it's not
> likely, anyway, although someone who's endured = the tutelage of Master
> Erestor of fanon lore well might. ;)
= >

Hee hee, I'd happily be tutored by Erestor!  And again, y= ou're right about the difference between a life-threatening food allergy an= d a mere dislike of bananas.  A weakness in my food analogy ... but wa= it, (I don't give up easily), how about this:  what do you do with a v= egetarian?  I am not a vegetarian, I love pork far too much, but my si= ster has been a vegetarian for more than 17 years.  She does not eat a= ny meat.  I respect that, even though it's not a preference I share.&n= bsp; I would never try to serve her anything that had even a little bit<= /b> of meat in it -- no drop of chicken broth, no stray bit of worcester sa= uce (anchovies).  Would my sister be harmed if she consumed a tiny bit= of animal protein?  In all likelihood, no.  But it would violate= a choice that she has made for herself.  It's not up to me to make he= r choices for her (even though I think she's missing out -- in fact one tim= e I used that to my advantage, when we were visiting our folks at home and = my mom had bought some de-li-cious Amish glazed donuts.  The tasty sec= ret is that they're fried in lard ... porky goodness abounds!  But the= donut  isn't blatantly non-vegetarian.  As we each eyed the last= donut, I commented to my sister that really she shouldn't have eaten any o= f them, given the lard and all. She was both aghast and chagrined.  An= d I got the donut!

>But I do think that, for
> many who = don't like this or that for less profound reasons, there might be
> a= n example of this or that out there that they *would* like.

Aga= in, I'm reluctant to label another person's reasons for disliking the thing= s that they dislike as being less meaningful to them ... not that you were = saying that, exactly. I just don't know why some people don't like what the= y don't like, and when I don't know the reason for the dislike I can't judg= e how profound it might be.

>It's just a
> question of digg= ing through the hundreds of examples of this or that that
> they *don= 't *like to find it ... so they likely never will. And I can't
> bla= me them for that. :)

Very true.


> But, of course, t= his is 100% my opinion, and I am hampered also by the fact
> that I h= ave read (and liked) an example of pretty much everything, and my
> o= penness to experience on the Big Five is pretty darned high. ;)
Yeah, someone who's high on openness, despite being very open to new thing= s they haven't experienced before, isn't going to really be able to "get" s= omeone who isn't as open to new things.  We all inevitably have our bl= ind spots.  Try imagining being an illiterate adult, for example. = ;  The challenges they face are actually unimaginable for those of us = whose fluency is so strong that reading has become a semi-automated cogniti= ve process.

>I will
> continue to say that I respect peo= ple's right to read or not read whatever
> they want. But if someone = *is* willing to give something new a try, I'd
> heartily support talk= ing to someone really familiar with that particular
> type of story t= o get a variety of recommendations about stories that break
> the mol= d a little bit in that area and chancing to wander a bit upon roads
>= less traveled. I have learned, in the past, that to say I can't ever imagi= ne
> liking something is as good as guaranteeing that I'll someday fi= nd something
> or someone to change my mind. When I was in high schoo= l, I swore that I
> didn't like fantasy novels, *especially *those by= that fellow J.R.R.
> Tolkien. Look where that got me. ;)
>=
Let's hear it for eating crow!  I'm an old hand at that.  Es= pecially good with bananas!3D";)"
--4-0844729053-0251773953=:8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1900 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6520 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2008 23:52:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2008 23:52:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2008 23:52:02 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 86703 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jun 2008 23:52:02 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: V0WOWz4VM1k044WzfPkYjbSkx02PCmSRNcnD2k1WBZ_OJx7tMJyObFkadhpqnVVILknfjAfsQv1wjWrv4AR6KtHNaSVWTNkjeLazmW7eR0NNeLgyNl3CBrE- X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:52:01 PDT Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 16:52:01 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0806061540s204d16d9v96db56575b83406a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1859345547-1212796321=:85267" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <930492.85267.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=YJVOm01p4YuiDEqqrDrQlTGiw-4WlqG-RM3RgCaO2BEV_Hxhqw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1859345547-1212796321=:85267 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit so you like your hobbits well done? *snigger* S�lriel of Menegroth wrote: On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Alassante7 wrote: I wonder this myself. Although I prefer elves and men to hobbits, I can't understand why some people say they would *never* read hobbit fic or elf fics because that is part of Tolkien's world. Oh! ME! *Waving hand in the air* I can answer this one because I'm admittedly one of the worst. It comes back to reader expectations. IMO, Hobbits are, generally, a quiet folk, and I don't care for 'quiet' stories. Most Hobbit stories tend to be reflective of Hobbit character and lifestyle and that's not a huge draw for me. There are certain 'Hobbit authors' I enjoy enough to seek out, but it's not, in general, a sub-genre that I'm prone to read. OTOH, I especially like the complexity and depth of the Silmarillion and so I'm drawn to First Age Elves, epic battles, unanswerable questions, balance how much evil is required to bring good through to the world, ... that sort of thing. In part, because I'm already in that groove, it's easier for a Silm author to pull me in. So I'm likely to read a mediocre Silmfic, but it takes an extraordinary Hobbit fic to pull me in. Same with Third Age 'Men' stories. I don't ready much if any contemporary fiction - I don't even go to that section of the bookstore - and (oddly enough) Third Age stories typically have the 'feel' to me. Although there are plenty of third age authors that I enjoy enough to read just about anything they write. going back to the taste analogy. I don't like mushroom, but I can pick them off the pizza and if I miss a couple *bleh* but it doesn't ruin my day. Olives, OTOH, can not be picked off. I can taste them because the flavor cooks through on everything and I'd rather go hungry. It seems like I've had some dip that had bits of olives in it that were not too bad - but (to follow the example) it wouldn't be my first choice. Sulriel ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1859345547-1212796321=:85267 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit so you like your hobbits well done? *snigger*

S�lriel of Menegroth wrote:

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Alassante7 <alassante7@yahoo.com> wrote:
I wonder this myself. Although I prefer elves and men to hobbits, I can't understand why some people say they would *never* read hobbit fic or elf fics because that is part of Tolkien's world.
 
 
Oh! ME!  *Waving hand in the air*  I can answer this one because I'm admittedly one of the worst.
 
It comes back to reader expectations. IMO,  Hobbits are, generally, a quiet folk, and I don't care for 'quiet' stories.  Most Hobbit stories tend to be reflective of Hobbit character and lifestyle and that's not a huge draw for me.  There are certain 'Hobbit authors'  I enjoy enough to seek out, but it's not, in general, a sub-genre that I'm prone to read.
 
OTOH, I especially like the complexity and depth of the Silmarillion and so I'm drawn to First Age Elves, epic battles, unanswerable questions, balance how much evil is required to bring good through to the world, ... that sort of thing.  In part, because I'm already in that groove, it's easier for a Silm author to pull me in. 
 
So I'm likely to read a mediocre Silmfic, but it takes an extraordinary Hobbit fic to pull me in.  Same with Third Age 'Men' stories.  I don't ready much if any contemporary fiction - I don't even go to that section of the bookstore - and (oddly enough) Third Age stories typically have the 'feel' to me.  Although there are plenty of third age authors that I enjoy enough to read just about anything they write.
 
going back to the taste analogy.  I don't like mushroom, but I can pick them off the pizza and if I miss a couple *bleh* but it doesn't ruin my day.  Olives, OTOH, can not be picked off.  I can taste them because the flavor cooks through on everything and I'd rather go hungry.  It seems like I've had some dip that had bits of olives in it that were not too bad - but (to follow the example) it wouldn't be my first choice.
 
 
Sulriel



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1859345547-1212796321=:85267-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1901 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92945 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 00:58:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 00:58:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.170) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 00:58:24 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 26so1167890wfd.26 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:58:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.201.3 with SMTP id y3mr275939wff.1.1212800304121; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:58:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 17:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806061758t280f1d9aq796b183e5513920b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:58:24 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_17720_9932635.1212800304108" References: <3c715e1e0806061031i19132f7ch20060c506d8337d7@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9200957fc720d16d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Serving Canon or Canon Serving Stories?) 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X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=7byYibxC0OrESRQBJDAMLT3zBmOQx6sPBRycnLfqA3K5N6VFUwSi X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212800829 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/6/2008 7:58:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, sulriel@gmail.com writes: I don't agree with that at all. I think a lot of authors are never noticed and quietly slink away. (or are noticed in the wrong way and run crying into the night) That may be true in some cases, but the point I think is that a surprising number of very marginally written stories are well read because they contain specific very popular characters. (I still tend to read most stories, good, bad and indifferent, about, for example, Fingon, Maedhros, or Feanor. But I am not as likely to read just any old story about other characters. Of course, I am reading in a narrower area of Tolkien fanfiction that the person reading Faramir stories.) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212800829 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =

In a messag= e dated 6/6/2008 7:58:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, sulriel@gmail.com write= s:
I don't agree with that at all.=   I think a lot of authors are never noticed and quietly slink away= . (or are noticed in the wrong way and run crying into the night)
=
 
That may be = true in some cases, but the point I think is that a surprising number of v= ery marginally written stories are well read because they contain spe= cific very popular characters. (I still tend to read most stories, good, b= ad and indifferent, about, for example, Fingon, Maedhros, o= r Feanor. But I am not as likely to read just any old story about other ch= aracters. Of course, I am reading in a narrower area of Tolkien fanfiction = that the person reading Faramir stories.)



Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food= .
-------------------------------1212800829-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1904 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98380 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 02:09:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 02:09:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.168) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 02:09:29 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so1225497wfg.25 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:09:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.231.7 with SMTP id d7mr277058wfh.264.1212804569190; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:09:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806061909n1f916fb0oe781536ad6dd609d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 21:09:29 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_17894_29162949.1212804569184" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 411864abf70372d7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Convention... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=zLYBHeC05g498jGUismYFlZ3rCuOw5TcAawpgstsgJfoSw X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_17894_29162949.1212804569184-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1905 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99272 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 02:14:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 02:14:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 02:14:17 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.ca8.270b1dc0 (39332) for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 22:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 22:14:12 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212804852" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Convention... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=a_GE59LhiPcs7EwA5h3aosFK0uHZEKyLQ6PgvpWBqg_BVy2ynFoE X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212804852 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/6/2008 9:09:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, sulriel@gmail.com writes: But at the same time, we all know of remarkably written stories that have little or no readership. So true. But usually those stories are original, unique, written from a POV or time frame that isn't the current fad or old staple that everyone is reading. My Princess and the Horse Lord story intersected a fad and still has tens of thousands more clicks than my second most popular story. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212804852 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/6/2008 9:09:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, sulriel@gmail.com write= s:
But at the same time, we all kn= ow of remarkably written stories that have little or no readership. = ;
 
So = true. But usually those stories are original, unique, written from a POV o= r time frame that isn't the current fad or old staple that everyone is read= ing. My Princess and the Horse Lord story intersected a fad and s= till has tens of thousands more clicks than my second most popular story. =



Get trade secrets for = amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with = Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
-------------------------------1212804852-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1906 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85579 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 02:19:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 02:19:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.91) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 02:19:47 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 63309 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jun 2008 02:19:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 7Drx6DMVM1lSBLemnwOcrucvk._YvbccZs0PmqPk6lV.jwF1MjAPZUAVPQZgwNIN6gwPV_vr5LkpS4ocw_2t82lK9GKQxMyH7juf9nyuSA40bNibHxUuD0I- X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:19:46 PDT Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:19:46 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-681062274-1212805186=:62823" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <210197.62823.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Convention... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=7vnlRBo9dIkI1lAp0WjqApn-6vCMYkCxgjd7WRQY0VUQ5vtEmA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-681062274-1212805186=:62823 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit well at the same time Oshun there was a huge amount of fanfic about elves and Aragorn for so long that the Eomer lovers were/are eager for his story too and there aren't as many writers of Eomer fic as there are readers from what I've seen. My Eomer fic was a lot more popular than I thought it would be and its not nearly my *best* story. I still get hits on it and people asking when I'll finish it (sadly probably never since I lost the Eomer muse for good) heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/6/2008 9:09:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, sulriel@gmail.com writes: But at the same time, we all know of remarkably written stories that have little or no readership. So true. But usually those stories are original, unique, written from a POV or time frame that isn't the current fad or old staple that everyone is reading. My Princess and the Horse Lord story intersected a fad and still has tens of thousands more clicks than my second most popular story. --------------------------------- Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-681062274-1212805186=:62823 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit well at the same time Oshun there was a huge amount of fanfic about elves and Aragorn for so long that the Eomer lovers were/are eager for his story too and there aren't as many writers of Eomer fic as there are readers from what I've seen. My Eomer fic was a lot more popular than I thought it would be and its not nearly my *best* story. I still get hits on it and people asking when I'll finish it (sadly probably never since I lost the Eomer muse for good)

heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 6/6/2008 9:09:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, sulriel@gmail.com writes:
But at the same time, we all know of remarkably written stories that have little or no readership. 
 
So true. But usually those stories are original, unique, written from a POV or time frame that isn't the current fad or old staple that everyone is reading. My Princess and the Horse Lord story intersected a fad and still has tens of thousands more clicks than my second most popular story.



Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-681062274-1212805186=:62823-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1907 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4751 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 02:24:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 02:24:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 02:24:05 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bbb.2bde6707 (39332) for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 22:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 22:23:58 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212805438" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Convention... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=xzOm74S7pkR2Q4mxtVE8TC65D6eDHunCxjxb17TmzatqXRNCXHyX X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212805438 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/6/2008 9:20:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: My Eomer fic was a lot more popular than I thought it would be and its not nearly my *best* story. I feel your pain. When I started mine, I hadn't read any Eomer/Lothiriel fics so I thought I was being original! Ha! Mine is no where close to being one of my better efforts, although I have a soft spot in my heart for it. I do intend to finish mine simply because so many people have started reading it and it seems grossly unfair to leave them hanging. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212805438 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =

In a messag= e dated 6/6/2008 9:20:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com wr= ites:
My Eomer fic was a lot more popul= ar than I thought it would be and its not nearly my *best* story.
I feel your pain. When I started mine= , I hadn't read any Eomer/Lothiriel fics so I thought I was being original= ! Ha! Mine is no where close to being one of my better efforts, although&n= bsp;I have a soft spot in my heart for it. I do intend to finish mine simp= ly because so many people have started reading it and it seems grossly unf= air to leave them hanging.



Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. -------------------------------1212805438-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1908 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65261 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 06:29:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 06:29:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.175) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 06:29:38 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 27so1267132wfd.4 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:29:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.180.19 with SMTP id c19mr355581wff.273.1212820178218; Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:29:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2008 23:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 02:29:38 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0806061909n1f916fb0oe781536ad6dd609d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6208_30466091.1212820178173" References: <3c715e1e0806061909n1f916fb0oe781536ad6dd609d@mail.gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Convention... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0GJvd36MODIJJZ17HKjQo4BffqXd04M6egt7PlU41KIGtEP6SiJC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_6208_30466091.1212820178173-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1909 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28772 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 09:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 09:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.116) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 09:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2008 09:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2008 09:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2008 09:22:14 -0000 Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 09:22:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4845B763.7080605@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: reasonable canon mistakes X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=x-3bn0G4HJRgMk4cQ4rx4yQxpnU8xefDWZU0jRxIiLZin3hv4BDDhma8Fw X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked I think the point here is that in Tolkien fandom you do have quasi- canon. = On my site (http://www.canonnofanon.net/) I define quasi-canon as "This is= the material contained in "The Silmarillion", "Unfinished tales" and "His= tory of Middle-earth". It is not quite canon because we have no idea what = the final form these materials were to take since Tolkien himself never fi= nished working on them. Also, some of the materials in these books contrad= ict each other either explicitly or implicitly, but since ultimately the s= ource of the material in these books is J.R.R Tolkien himself they cannot = be disregarded entirely. Some, myself included, hold everything in these b= ooks to be canon and use whichever story arc catches our fancy and do not = feel compelled to label our fics AUs, since strictly speaking they are no= t. Once again, I am certain many people will disagree with me." The exampl= e you gave with Denethor and the palantiri falls under quasi-canon. Tolkie= n fandom is one of the few fandoms that has this idea of "quasi-canon" and= depending on who you ask you get a very different answer to certain quest= ions. The example of Denethor is right up there. Most people would not con= sider that a mistake at all, because nothing in Lord of the Rings said tha= t Denethor had the right, in fact the implication is that he didn't have t= he right. While quite extreme I have had people describe any book publishe= d after Tolkien's death as "Christopher Tolkien's fanfiction". I think ma= ny people, myself included, forget that not everybody considers Silmarilli= on, Unfinished Tales or heck even Children of Hurin as canon. The other = day I got exceptionally annoyed when a fanfiction I was reading suggested = that the Valar regretted giving E=E4rendil and his desendents the choice b= ecause some of the choose to be mortal. Apparently they would take it back= if they could. Which of course is a very silly thing to say given the E= =E4rendil, Elwing and all half- elves are mortal by default and mortality i= s such a great gift in the world of Tolkien that the Valar can't take it a= way just because they want to. However, I cannot in all honestly classify = the above as a canon mistake at all because just by reading Lord of the Ri= ngs or the Hobbit you wouldn't know anything of this. You would have to re= ad the Silmarillion and parts of the Unfinished Tale and more importantly = perhaps "The Debate of Finrod and Andreth" from Morgoth's Ring to get the= full understanding of what Tolkien's thinking on the issue was. I guess w= hat I am getting at is that... I actually I am not sure what I am getting = at. I am sure there is a point in there some where. -Tinni --- In Silmar= illionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "melayton@..." wrote: >= > Hey guys, > > I've been reading the debate on canon, fanon, AU, etc. wi= th quite a bit > of interest. I have found myself nodding at an awful lot= at each of the > posts made, because you're all making some really good = points. For my > part, I've been too wearied by RL and busy with other fa= ndom projects > (read: MEFAs) to want to get involved in a detailed discu= ssion. > > But I can't resist. Because reading, it seems like a lot of the= posts > assume that all stories fall into one of three groups: > > --- = disregarding canon out of a complete ignorance of the pertinent > canon (c= .f. Dawn's Turin Turambar story, Msg #1787) > > --- AU in a careful or pur= poseful fashion > > --- canon-compliant, at least on the important things.= > > The trouble is one man's "how could you not know that?" fact is anot= her > person's "gee, you learn something new every day. I'm sure we could = all > come up with examples of pieces of canon that to us seem second na= ture > but aren't that well known, even to other Silmfic readers. > > To = give a brief non-Silm example: It boggles my mind when people think > tha= t Denethor (as in, the steward of Gondor, not the Nandorin elf) > wasn't c= ompletely in his rights to use the palantir. It's stated so > emphatically= ... in the _Unfinished Tales_ essay on the palantiri. Which > of course m= ost people reading the LOTR fanfic may not have read; but to > me it seem= s such a basic factoid. The thing is, when you're > world-building, you co= me across these references and you really think on > them and build on th= em so that it's hard to imagine your readers not > knowing them. > > Con= versely, if I read a story where someone says Denethor had no right > to = use the palantir, it will totally jerk me out of the story; but the > aut= hor herself did not make what she considered a big canon mistake. She > p= robably knew LOTR - maybe frontwards and backwards, and the appendices > = besides! but because a fact seemed basic to me, in my mind it is hard > n= ot to relegate her to the realm of "authors who can't be bothered to > le= arn their canon." > > I guess my point is, there are canon passages that w= e know, that it > seems like any decently-educated fanfic author would *ha= ve* to know - > but that really, a person could make a good-faith effort = to educate > themself, and still make a mistake. Possibly a crucial one in= terms of > that fanfic story; but they really are *trying* to write a go= od story, > and the above break-down of types of stories doesn't seem to = really > allow for that. > > And I try to accommodate them, because fanfi= c is a hobby. I love > well-researched stories, but I also know that not e= veryone has the time > to research every detail; and they're doing their = best. If there's room > for that kind of error in the comparatively simpl= e Third Age canon, I > imagine this problem would be even more pronounced= in Silmfic, where > there are *so* many sources in so many stages of dev= elopment. > > I don't know what the solution is, of course. But it seemed = worth saying > nonetheless. :-) > > Marta > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1910 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23997 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 14:03:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 14:03:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 14:03:33 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69D4F104039 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 2008 16:03:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 7 Jun 2008 16:03:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 16:03:26 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <172449709.20080607160326@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <3c715e1e0806061909n1f916fb0oe781536ad6dd609d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Convention... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=96B1xG_gQ0dfVd_7EbapeF4VSmKKOk0yIPDq3hjfWjpKjpj4iaI X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> In fact, I've observed this explicitly, where people offer to "return the DF> favor" of a nice comment or review. That's the way commenting works on most of archives with art, I guess it works that way everywhere, no matter the topic. There are people who do so good stuff or so wanted stuff that they get hits and reviews anyway no matter if they pay any attention to others and there are underestimated talented people who get no comments, because they give none. A lot depends on a site and way people search for stories or art, but on a huge site new things disappear from the top at once, so without author's own marketing ;) it's hard to be found. DF> And I suspect that a lot of people who started reading DF> my work did so because I reviewed them or helped them, not because DF> they were particularly interested in my work. This is also one of ways to search for good stories and authors - if someone leaves a well thought comment you want to know who they are and if they are writing, too. I usually search via recommendations of my fav authors, but also take a look at comments of other people under stories and if someone writes in interesting way I check their stories. DF> "I am here because you wrote me such a nice review I wanted to check out DF> your work" or "return the favor." :) That's the way it works :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1911 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20018 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 16:15:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 16:15:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 16:15:16 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2008 16:15:16 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2008 16:15:16 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2008 16:15:16 -0000 Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 16:15:15 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="8-2698921933-3976524449=:2" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Convention... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=fTnm2DferbEzEPOVU2PXhBRy48xB8myfH1ARzYstz5lKq6M7Yj8toTg6 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --8-2698921933-3976524449=:2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Regarding what gets read and what does not ... Your c= omments, along those from oshun, Sirielle & Sulriel, on what gets read and = what doesn't within the context of original fiction and fan fiction, are in= triguing, especially from the perspective of a representative of the blogos= phere.* If I may put my blogger's hat on for a moment (OK, more than a mom= ent): The particular version of the Refuge's site meter allows for a great= deal of granularity. A few of you are aware of this from the occasional p= ostings on my LJ - "Fun with search words." Some of the search strings are= rather hair-raising to say the least! Anyway, based on our hit rates and = trends, there are most certainly subjects that strike a chord, or hit a ner= ve, take your pick. These subjects are most often highly controversial "c= ulture wars" type stuff, most originating from the erstwhile KMB. I'll not= e that the "erstwhile" has resulted in our hit rate dropping but that's fin= e by me. Attracting many thousands of readers on the Refuge is not my goa= l (although it can be a perplexing and strangely exhilerating occurrence wh= en it happens), just as attracting many readers of my ficcish hackery is n= ot an overarching goal either. Another example (somewhat more germane to = this group) is "Tolkienian War on Science." That garnered tens of thousand= s of hits rather quickly and a number of responses both on the blog and off= . Frankly, I was dumbfounded and well, to tell you the truth, kind of dish= eartened. I have written far more science-driven posts (most written with = a general audience in mind and laced with my acerbic world view) in which I= take a lot more pride (and spent much more time writing and researching). = But that one was wildly popular. On the other hand, I received an incre= dibly poignant note from a woman who had really liked a post I had written = as a review of a Nature Medicine article, one that had a low hit rate, but = that "reached" her in a very personal way. Now that had me walking on air = for days. Of more recent popularity is a truly lascivious shot of a vetch = flower (photo by our own Moreth) with very little text. Key words there: "= flower p0rn." I "SSP" postings on the blog via Reddit and Stumbleupon -- l= et me tell you, "p0rn" is a sure draw. I can't imagine what they think whe= n they find a close-up of a floral part. So, I definitely see parallels to= what you and oshun address: certain characters and settings, certain subje= cts, regardless of inherent "quality," will attract readers in the Tolkien = fan fic world. I have observed the equivalent in our blog. >Fandom is > = a social entity, and much of what transpires is driven by the "fandom > eco= nomy" of gifting and reciprocating. There's also a parallel in "you review= mine, I'll review yours." Certain bloggers reciprocate by linking to one = another's pieces. Part of this is the raison d'etre of Science Blogs -- so= mething of a salon of scientists, but often we all blather self-importantly= around each other. Also, we've seen the Refuge hit rate soar (and comments= appear) when one of the big guns like Pharyngula or the Daily Vos links on= e of our pieces. That would be akin, I think, to what Sirielle says - "Hey= , go read this fic! I think you'll like it." So, here is a wildly differe= nt venue in which I see distinct similarities to what you, oshun & Sirielle= are saying. I wonder if this is simply inherent to the "communities and m= arkets" that tend to coalesce on the internet? As a little side note to "w= arnings," I was vastly amused when I received an otherwise complimentary e= -mail on "Tolkienian Wars..." that complained about my bringing religion an= d politics into the essay. I don't think said reader was very familiar with= the nature of the Refuge and its rather, umm, opinionated tone. Perhaps w= e should slap all manner of warnings on it. ;^) *On blogging - I realize l= ots of folks here have LJ's (s0 do I) which serves as blogs, but in this in= stance, our banana-peel littered place is "officially" part of another grou= p sponsored by a magazine -- and with no friends-lock whatsoever. The blog= is linked in my yahoo profile if you're dying to read it, but be forewarne= d that controversial subjects are contained therein and would likely offen= d (greatly) some of the kinder and gentler souls of the SWG Yahoo group. = --8-2698921933-3976524449=:2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote:
>
> Regarding what gets read and what= does not ...

Your comments, along those from oshun, Sirielle & = Sulriel, on what gets read and what doesn't within the context of original = fiction and fan fiction, are intriguing, especially from the perspective of= a representative of the blogosphere.*  If I may put my blogger's hat = on for a moment (OK, more than a moment):

The particular version of = the Refuge's site meter allows for a great deal of granularity.  A few= of you are aware of this from the occasional postings on my LJ - "Fun with= search words."  Some of the search strings are rather hair-raising to= say the least!  Anyway, based on our hit rates and trends, there are = most certainly subjects that strike a chord, or hit a nerve, take your pick= .  These subjects are most often highly controversial  "culture w= ars" type stuff, most originating from the erstwhile KMB.  I'll note t= hat the "erstwhile" has resulted in our hit rate dropping but that's fine b= y me.   Attracting many thousands of readers on the Refuge is not= my goal (although it can be a perplexing and strangely exhilerating occurr= ence when it happens),  just as attracting many readers of my ficcish = hackery is not an overarching goal either.

Another example  (s= omewhat more germane to this group) is "Tolkienian War on Science."  T= hat garnered tens of thousands of hits rather quickly and a number of respo= nses both on the blog and off.  Frankly, I was dumbfounded and well, t= o tell you the truth, kind of disheartened.  I have written far= more science-driven posts (most written with a general audience in mind an= d laced with my acerbic world view) in which I take a lot more pride (and s= pent much more time writing and researching).  But that one  was = wildly popular.   On the other hand, I received an incredibly poi= gnant note from a woman who had really liked a post I had written as a revi= ew of a Nature Medicine article, one that had a low hit rate, but th= at "reached" her in a very personal way.  Now that had me walki= ng on air for days.

Of more recent popularity is a truly lascivious = shot of a vetch flower (photo by our own Moreth) with very little text.&nbs= p; Key words there: "flower p0rn."  I "SSP" postings on the blog via R= eddit and Stumbleupon -- let me tell you, "p0rn" is a sure draw.  I ca= n't imagine what they think when they find a close-up of a floral part.
=
So, I definitely see parallels to what you and oshun address: ce= rtain characters and settings, certain subjects, regardless of inherent "qu= ality," will attract readers in the Tolkien fan fic world.   I ha= ve observed the equivalent in our blog.

>Fandom is
> a soci= al entity, and much of what transpires is driven by the "fandom
> eco= nomy" of gifting and reciprocating.

There's also a parallel in "you= review mine, I'll review yours."  Certain bloggers reciprocate by lin= king to one another's pieces.  Part of this is the raison d'etre of Sc= ience Blogs -- something of a salon of scientists, but often we all blather= self-importantly around each other.  Also, we've seen the Refuge hit = rate soar (and comments appear) when one of the big guns like Pharyngula or= the Daily Vos links one of our pieces.  That would be akin, I think, = to what Sirielle says - "Hey, go read this fic!  I think you'll like i= t."

So, here is a wildly different venue in which I see distinct sim= ilarities to what you, oshun & Sirielle are saying.  I wonder if t= his is simply inherent to the "communities and markets" that tend to coales= ce on the internet?

As a little side note to "warnings,"  I was= vastly amused when I received an otherwise complimentary e-mail on "Tolkie= nian Wars..." that complained about my bringing religion and politics into = the essay. I don't think said reader was very familiar with the nature of t= he Refuge and its rather, umm, opinionated tone.  Perhaps we sh= ould slap all manner of warnings on it. ;^)

*On blogging - I realize= lots of folks here have LJ's (s0 do I) which serves as blogs, but in this = instance, our banana-peel littered place is "officially" part of another gr= oup sponsored by a magazine -- and with no friends-lock whatsoever.  T= he blog is linked in my yahoo profile if you're dying to read it, but be fo= rewarned  that controversial subjects are contained therein and would = likely offend (greatly) some of the kinder and gentler souls of the SWG Yah= oo group.


--8-2698921933-3976524449=:2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1912 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33603 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 16:51:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 16:51:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.174) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 16:51:41 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so1501769wfg.3 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 09:51:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.99.21 with SMTP id w21mr593645wfb.55.1212857501250; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 09:51:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jun 2008 09:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806070951n4f9385e1r837adbfc7fe9ca79@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 11:51:41 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20194_26637613.1212857501242" X-Google-Sender-Auth: e80461be2708d0d5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [now] readership/recp reviews/key words [was] Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Convention... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=P9jNa-lJDvsNzzfJHo1w1DyqqFMHV6ePSpomRt3PbBs_KA X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_20194_26637613.1212857501242-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1913 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20053 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 17:01:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 17:01:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.174) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 17:01:39 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 26so1401468wfd.26 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:01:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.143.29.17 with SMTP id g17mr584197wfj.239.1212858099623; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:01:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jun 2008 10:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806071001n1ba77957t4cb273dc310dc97c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 12:01:39 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20249_17279582.1212858099611" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 41ea7a5546cc60d2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Convention... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=3howKaO7jajwnX4UOd7Dr1JyRTZxd4KUjg0F5_8jcZoR1g X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_20249_17279582.1212858099611-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1914 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19093 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 17:16:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 17:16:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 17:16:07 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.be6.2954e64b (48552) for ; Sat, 7 Jun 2008 13:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 13:16:45 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212859005" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: [now] readership/recp reviews/key words [w... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=cmRtBG-eiEIYG7QHiz--6laGABFKTzhrGw12KGVct_f0zFLO075M X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212859005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/7/2008 11:51:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, sulriel@gmail.com writes: My point is that, in my case, I've posted, literally, 100s of reviews, probably under 1000 total over the years, but maybe more - some reciprocal and some not - and it has not gained me a readership. I'm feeling your pain here. Outside of one LOTR story, which I'm not even sure I like that much, I surely couldn't claim to be popular or well-read. The SWG has been a godsend for me, because people actually read me there. Perhaps in small numbers, but, apparently, that is my audience. On the other hand, looking at the last few days of discussion on related threads here, I see that even there I am a distinct minority. whose work apparently squicks the majority of people (and I don't write porn, graphic violence, angst or Faramir/Eowyn drabbles. Maybe I should?? Unfortunately, none of that really interests me). On the review question, I have found mine is roughly in the wider world of fandom something like 20-1, at best. I review at least 20 stories in comparison to every review I get. (Again, on the SWG, those numbers are a lot closer.) The people I have met through fanfic who I consider my friends are absolutely amazing, generous, really smart and interesting. But it is a labor-intensive way to meet people! Hey, now I'm laughing at myself! You caught me on a bad day, Sulriel. Back to your initial point: I'm definitely feeling your pain here. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212859005 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/7/2008 11:51:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, sulriel@gmail.com writ= es:
My point is that, in my case, = I've posted, literally, 100s of reviews, probably under 1000 total over = the years, but maybe more - some reciprocal and some not - and it has no= t gained me a readership.
 
I'm feeling your pain here. Outside of one LOTR story, = which I'm not even sure I like that much, I surely couldn't claim to be po= pular or well-read. The SWG has been a godsend for me, because people actu= ally read me there. Perhaps in small numbers, but, apparently, that is= my audience. On the other hand, looking at the last few days of disc= ussion on related threads here, I see that even there I am a distinct mino= rity. whose work apparently squicks the majority of people (and I don't wr= ite porn, graphic violence, angst or Faramir/Eowyn drabbles. May= be I should?? Unfortunately, none of that really interests me).
 
On the review question, I have found mine is rough= ly in the wider world of fandom something like 20-1, at best. I review at = least 20 stories in comparison to every review I get. (Again, on the SWG, = those numbers are a lot closer.) 
 
The pe= ople I have met through fanfic who I consider my friends are absolutely am= azing, generous, really smart and interesting. But it is a labor-inten= sive way to meet people!
 
Hey, now I'm la= ughing at myself! You caught me on a bad day, Sulriel. Back to your initia= l point: I'm definitely feeling your pain here.



<= DIV>
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Fo= od.
-------------------------------1212859005-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1915 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 46779 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 21:48:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 21:48:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n41a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.135) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 21:48:18 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2008 21:48:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2008 21:48:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2008 21:48:18 -0000 X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97676 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 21:44:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 21:44:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 21:44:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2008 21:44:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2008 21:44:05 -0000 Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 21:44:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="2-4786227728-9181467620=:0" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: [now] readership/recp reviews/key words [w... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=uk_w5wTccB3cHTzlvSiiLQbHIOO5aU06WeLrIlDVTa0d6WFCFQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala X-eGroups-Approved-By: tarion_anarore via web; 07 Jun 2008 21:48:18 -0000 --2-4786227728-9181467620=:0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think I can safely say I feel that pain as well. When I see a story that= has no reviews, if it looks even barely tolerable, I read and review it. = When someone reviews me, I generally try toreview them. Is the favor retur= ned? Of course not. The obvious factor to consider is that most of us hav= e been into fanfiction for a while, whereas a great deal of readers are sti= ll relatively new, and therefore more likely to get easily squicked. I kno= w that a lot of things that seem normal now would have made me run away scr= eaming when I first came to the fandom. But that's more an excuse for not = reading than not reviewing. A pet peeve of mine is when people on ff.n wil= l put you on their fav stories list or stories alert list without reviewing= . Especially when you don't have reviews, or only have a couple. I mean, = you can't complain, because you're supposed to be satisfied that they enjoy= ed your story at all... but knowing that they obviously like your writing b= ut can't be bothered to tell you so just annoys me. This is a subject I co= uld probably rant about for hours, but I think I'll quit while I'm ahead. = ;) --2-4786227728-9181467620=:0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think I can safely say I feel that pain as well.  When = I see a story that has no reviews, if it looks even barely tolerable, I rea= d and review it.  When someone reviews me, I generally tr= y toreview them.  Is the favor returned?  Of course not.

The obvious factor to consider is that most= of us have been into fanfiction for a while, whereas a great deal of reade= rs are still relatively new, and therefore more likely to get easily squick= ed.  I know that a lot of things that seem normal now wou= ld have made me run away screaming when I first came to the fandom.&n= bsp; But that's more an excuse for not reading than not reviewing.
A pet peeve of mine is when people on ff.n will put you on the= ir fav stories list or stories alert list without reviewing.  Especially when you don't have reviews, or only have a couple.&n= bsp; I mean, you can't complain, because you're supposed to be satis= fied that they enjoyed your story at all... but knowing that they obviously= like your writing but can't be bothered to tell you so just annoys me.
=
This is a subject I could probably rant about for hours, but I think I'= ll quit while I'm ahead.  ;) --2-4786227728-9181467620=:0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1916 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86926 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 21:52:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 21:52:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 21:52:02 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.ccf.31df8d41 (48552) for ; Sat, 7 Jun 2008 17:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 17:52:40 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212875560" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: [now] readership/recp reviews/key words [w... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=QY9GJqgc73kQ5aLMnEkQbmTEwEiFtPKDXfhDDA20YfH0k3iKnKKj X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212875560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/7/2008 4:48:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com writes: A pet peeve of mine is when people on ff.n will put you on their fav stories list or stories alert list without reviewing. Especially when you don't have reviews, or only have a couple. I mean, you can't complain, because you're supposed to be satisfied that they enjoyed your story at all... but knowing that they obviously like your writing but can't be bothered to tell you so just annoys me. That is a scream. I have the same experience, more people have put me on their alert and/or favorite lists than the number of reviews I have recieved on ff net. Who are these people?? **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212875560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 6/7/2008 4:48:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com writes:<= /DIV>
A pet peeve of mine is when people on f= f.n will put you on their fav stories list or stories alert list without= reviewing.  Especially when you don't have reviews, o= r only have a couple.  I mean, you can't complain, bec= ause you're supposed to be satisfied that they enjoyed your story at all= ... but knowing that they obviously like your writing but can't be bothe= red to tell you so just annoys me.
That is a screa= m. I have the same experience, more people have put me on their alert and/= or favorite lists than the number of reviews I have recieved on ff net. Wh= o are these people??

 <= /BLOCKQUOTE>
 



Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.<= /DIV> -------------------------------1212875560-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1917 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22894 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2008 22:00:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2008 22:00:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.171) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2008 22:00:05 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so1542758wfg.15 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 15:00:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.165.14 with SMTP id n14mr671224wfe.335.1212876005780; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 15:00:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jun 2008 15:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 18:00:05 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7492_30454964.1212876005776" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: [now] readership/recp reviews/key words [w... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5049v2iwPi3zOckFeZddZKXP1K0sEy0GKPKXwcFXyVhCRI_8eNMK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_7492_30454964.1212876005776-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1918 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40990 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2008 03:43:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2008 03:43:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.173) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2008 03:43:48 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so1526642wfg.9 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:43:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.14 with SMTP id v14mr782667wfv.14.1212896628234; Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:43:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806072043k5b18b7d2w308b909b5bb829aa@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 22:43:48 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_22037_27499764.1212896628215" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: ef9e56bd74e7b759 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: [now] readership/recp reviews/key words [w... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=yxWUTZPnu0ikSYfBYI5ZdCd2Mfz0t6FpgHruh0p223gDAA X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_22037_27499764.1212896628215-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1919 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73369 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2008 13:17:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2008 13:17:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n49d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.175) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2008 13:17:22 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n49.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2008 13:17:22 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2008 13:17:22 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2008 13:17:22 -0000 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:17:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: [now] readership/recp reviews/key words [w... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=NEAPOfGI71P4ijJEp_PUghbK-1gRyVGF9kgovrISMaXLVjg X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel I've felt the same way as Dawn. Also, as someone whose fanfic activity (an= d even this post!) comes at the expense of things that really need to get d= one (like my dissertation!), I often wait to post a review, when I know I'l= l have some time to write something specific and thoughtful. Because I fig= ure that most authors don't need to hear "Wow, that was awesome -- I loved = it!" ... But now I appreciate that this would be better than nothing, perha= ps. Although for myself, the click count suffices, especially if it sugges= ts that forty-odd people seem to have made it to the final chapter. ... Wh= en looking at click counts, do you ever find, in a multi-chapter story that= some people skip ahead to the end? I should probably be disappointed abou= t that, but actually I was kind of flattered, actually, thinking "wow, some= one cared enough about what was going to happen to skip ahead even though t= hey didn't feel like reading other chapters! Yay!" --- In SilmarillionWri= tersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > On= Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Feta wrote: > > > A pet pee= ve of mine is when people on ff.n will put you on their fav > stories list = or stories alert list without reviewing. Especially when you > don't have = reviews, or only have a couple. I mean, you can't complain, > because you'= re supposed to be satisfied that they enjoyed your story at > all... but kn= owing that they obviously like your writing but can't be > bothered to tell= you so just annoys me. > > Now I'd have to say that I'm exactly the oppos= ite. :) But then, I'm not much > bothered by how much people are reviewing;= I tend to judge the success of my > stories more by page clicks (especiall= y multi-chapter stories: are the later > chapters getting the same number o= f clicks as Chapter Two?) and, yes, by the > presence on favorites lists. := ) In fact, I'm always delighted to find that > someone I don't know has rec= ced my story or added me to a favorites list > without me knowing. It kind = of shows me that I've had success with that > story beyond my core group of= readers (most of whom are also friends) and > those observing the norm of = reciprocity (i.e., those I've recently reviewed > myself). > > When I was = new to fandom, I did a lot of reading on ff.net and didn't always > leave r= eviews on stories that I adored because I figured that those writers > were= good enough to know it and didn't need little ol' me repeating what > they= surely already knew. In fact, I even worried that my senseless squeeing > = over their stories might become annoying. (Odd, I know ... but I was not ye= t > posting my own work to know what it was like to get those sorts of revi= ews > ... or no reviews.) It was quite a wake-up call to later befriend som= e of > these authors I admired from afar and see by their LJs and other > c= orrespondence that they were often just as insecure as I was and that those= > "senseless squeeing" reviews that I dreaded leaving were often celebrate= d in > private on their LJs. > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1920 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13322 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2008 13:29:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2008 13:29:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.171) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2008 13:29:27 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so1590555wfg.7 for ; Sun, 08 Jun 2008 06:29:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.174.18 with SMTP id w18mr939522wfe.325.1212931767320; Sun, 08 Jun 2008 06:29:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jun 2008 06:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 09:29:27 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8314_29386616.1212931767295" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: [now] readership/recp reviews/key words [w... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=UbnkbHsmvGK4bAec-jIRxedh-lS-0f9-jjxBfVzEY55z0mJJ8uTJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_8314_29386616.1212931767295-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1921 Return-Path: X-Sender: vanimore_gorthaurion@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49772 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2008 14:21:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2008 14:21:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.148) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2008 14:21:34 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2008 14:21:34 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2008 14:21:34 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2008 14:21:34 -0000 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:21:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "vanimore_gorthaurion" Subject: Re: [now] readership/recp reviews/key words [w... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=345322431; y=T3CqjQtlU4WQigYXaYVh635yf7hV57bKuEMrP_Fj9rvPghVSaQ6Qm8q6jyvlXio X-Yahoo-Profile: vanimore_gorthaurion Actually, I do that with books, - flip to the end - my nan always did, she= said if the story was good enough, then it did not matter if one knew the = ending, and I've found that is true. But I will still go back and read the = book. It's probably a good sign actually, since I have only done it with bo= oks I enjoyed, not ones I did not like. I do not usually do it with fanfic= tion however, as well, for one thing, I have only read about 3 stories whic= h were complete, the rest were WIP's From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1922 Return-Path: X-Sender: vanimore_gorthaurion@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75548 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2008 14:25:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2008 14:25:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n30b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.253) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2008 14:25:15 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2008 14:25:15 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2008 14:25:15 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2008 14:25:15 -0000 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:25:15 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "vanimore_gorthaurion" Subject: Re: [now] readership/recp reviews/key words [w... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=345322431; y=aVwtAJoVVoFK9x_Ji_lAYDpHF3OJVN0z7s5sgwNbZGQ1VG48u_KXWf4ADyJZnD0 X-Yahoo-Profile: vanimore_gorthaurion I have never looked at click counts or analyzed them. I know some-one on fa= nfiction.com who can tell me exactly how many people have read his chapters= as they go up. I suppose that does give you feedback of some sort, even if= people do not have time, or can't be bothered to review. I suppose it is = interesting to see which chapters get hit the most. Wet Elves. d;-) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1923 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76367 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2008 14:26:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2008 14:26:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2008 14:26:28 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d2d.2d5da875 (48552) for ; Sun, 8 Jun 2008 10:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 10:27:06 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1212935226" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: [now] readership/recp reviews/key words [w... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=6vencGwOhZnDt-hX9jELNy6YB6oPhuksWgoj6uuSsOnQGMe2otjQ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1212935226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/8/2008 9:22:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, vanimore_gorthaurion@yahoo.co.uk writes: Actually, I do that with books, - flip to the end - my nan always did, she said if the story was good enough, then it did not matter if one knew the ending, and I've found that is true. Hey, that is my feeling about spoilers. There are no spoilers for me. And I do sometimes read the end, believe it or not, if the book is taking me a while and I am going to be interrupted for a couple of days. That makes it look foward to going back to it. Books I have not finished I can count on one hand. I also read WIPs constantly doesn't bother me that in fanfiction it is a risk because so many are never finished. But I will still go back and read the book. It's probably a good sign actually, since I have only done it with books I enjoyed, not ones I did not like. I do not usually do it with fanfiction however, as well, for one thing, I have only read about 3 stories which were complete, the rest **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1212935226 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 6/8/2008 9:22:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, vanimore_gorthaurion@yahoo.co= .uk writes:
Actually, I do that with bo= oks, - flip to the end - my nan always
did, she said if the story was= good enough, then it did not matter if
one knew the ending, and I've= found that is true.
Hey, that is my feeling abou= t spoilers. There are no spoilers for me. And I do sometimes read the= end, believe it or not, if the book is taking me a while and I am going t= o be interrupted for a couple of days. That makes it look foward to going = back to it. Books I have not finished I can count on one hand. I also read= WIPs constantly doesn't bother me that in fanfiction it is a risk because= so many are never finished.
But I will= still go
back and read the book. It's probably a good sign actually, = since I
have only done it with books I enjoyed, not ones I did not l= ike.
I do not usually do it with fanfiction however, as well, for one=
thing, I have only read about 3 stories which were complete, the res= t
 



<= DIV>
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Fo= od.
-------------------------------1212935226-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1924 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23392 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 17:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2008 17:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.191) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 17:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2008 17:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2008 17:22:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2008 17:22:14 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:22:13 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=tSGdPUow4wV1G49OCn6DL6hhx1LVAS3joYP7jVs3Yj2LkxvXfkDj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Gwidhiel" = wrote: > A weakness in my food analogy ... but wait, (I > don't give up ea= sily), how about this: what do you do with a > vegetarian? I am not a veg= etarian, I love pork far too much, but my > sister has been a vegetarian f= or more than 17 years. She does not eat > any meat. I respect that, even= though it's not a preference I share. I > would never try to serve her a= nything that had even a little bit of meat > in it -- no drop of chicken b= roth, no stray bit of worcester sauce > (anchovies). Would my sister be ha= rmed if she consumed a tiny bit of > animal protein? In all likelihood, n= o. But it would violate a choice > that she has made for herself. It's n= ot up to me to make her choices > for her Ah, I am a vegetarian, so I ca= n take this one! ;) I have said already (and I'm sorry for repeating mysel= f to you, Gwidhiel, but for others who might just be joining the conversa= tion ...) that I do not take it upon myself to try to dictate what other p= eople's reading preferences should be. If you say that you don't like to r= ead XYZ, I may secretly think that's nuts given the myriad awesome stories= about XYZ that are out there, but, hey, I don't walk in your shoes, so I = don't know why you avoid it, and it's not my place to judge that you do. = I will say that, as a vegetarian, this is a good example of why I _don't_ = try to persuade people out of their preferences: because people try to per= suade me out of mine all the time. I mean, in American culture, I am an ab= normality; American meals focus on meat and I'm the weirdo eating the gree= n salad. So people feel the need to make constant commentary or, worse, to= try to persuade me out of a lifestyle that I have had for 14 years now. I= t's well past the stage of whim and, yes, I have considered all of the arg= uments for and against it. :) But every now and again, I'll run into one o= f those charming individuals who thinks that, in 14 years, I haven't hear= d their food-chain arguments or how meat-eating is defended in the Bible o= r cautionary tales from the nutritional lore of the '70s. Now, part of me = is tempted to say that vegetarianism was and is a choice made based on str= ong ethical beliefs--not "squick" about eating meat, as is terribly obviou= s whenever my family eats steamed crabs and I, a native Baltimore girl, am= trying hard not to slaver down the front of my shirt ;)--and I have troub= le believing that an avoidance of Hobbits or AU or slash is the same ... b= ut I said already that I do not stand in other people's shoes to know the = reasons behind their choices--nor do they need to explain themselves to m= e--so I will assume that they are likewise motivated by deeply held belief= s and have indeed considered their choice beyond a kneejerk "eww" reaction= . :) But, at the same time, I empathize with the authors of stories that = tend to make it onto people's won't-read lists because it _is_ hurtful to = have one's work summarily dismissed simply because of what it is in the mo= st basic, black-and-white sense. In a discussion off SWG, one of the corre= spondents expressed dismay of how those avoiding slash tend to do so with = the impression that they are avoiding PWP wish-fulfillment stories that fl= out canon in the name of prurience, and this is hardly the case: There are= myriad examples- -many by authors on this list--that are profound treatmen= ts of the social and political structures of the various cultures in Tolki= en's world, else they look honestly at the personal experience of being g= ay in a society that may or may not be accepting of this. Of course, that'= s not everyone's cup of tea either ... but I do understand how authors tak= e offense at being lumped in with Glorfindel/Erestor MPREG (or vice versa = ;) simply because both stories happen to contain homosexual characters. S= o ... to bring the point back to your vegetarian analogy, my vegetarianism= is a strongly held belief, as I'm sure some people's reading preferences = are. But I learned back in high school--in my formative years as a vegetar= ian, one could say--how best to handle expressing those preferences. For = example, my best friend when I became a vegetarian was a very politically = aware daughter of ex-hippies, so she followed my lead in eschewing meat wi= th great support from her mother. My friend was the sort who'd sit down at= a lunch table with a bunch of other kids and proceed to tell everyone wha= t had been done to their ham/turkey/roast beef sandwiches before they were= sandwiches. I preferred to keep my mouth shut; that sort of thing, I thou= ght, was rude and unnecessary among a group of people who didn't necessari= ly share in our views. It was also futile; it convinced no one, and in fa= ct inspired hard/hurt feelings and made people more adamantly against us a= nd our cause. As the years progressed, my friend got herself the reputatio= n as a shrill radical and, in the wonderful world of high school, got moc= ked quite a bit for her views. As her friend and known to share in her bel= iefs (in fact, the person who had "converted" her in the first place), I g= ot mocked quite a bit too, but I refused to play her game, and people figu= red that out after a while, and I ended up having a lot of great discussio= ns with people about our differing views versus being shouted at in the ha= llway about whether or not my views on animal welfare included supporting = one's right to spank one's monkey. (Gotta love high school!) There is a p= oint buried in all of this, I swear. :) And that is, while I support peopl= e's rights to their preferences, I do not understand why it has become so = normative in fandom to blazon oneself with those preferences. And I am not= trying to make anyone feel bad who does so--I have done the same, as anyo= ne who peruses my LJ circa 2005 could attest, seeing a lot of "I don't rea= d slash" and Mary-Sue mockery buried in the comments and posts there--beca= use I think it's such an accepted part of fandom that no one stops and th= inks about it and why we _need_ to do this. In fact, I've noticed lately t= hat more and more ff.net profiles have a "read" and "won't read" list in t= he bios. Why do we feel the need to explain this without being asked? And= this is where the connection between my radical youth and fandom comes in= . I can say that, personally and having been told the same by others in th= is group, it can be hurtful to have one's work dismissed like this. It's j= ust like my friend with her "before it was your ham sandwich" stories: in = a large, mixed group, it can come off as rude to say "I don't like what yo= u do," even if that is the truth. It is one thing to say, "Sorry, I prefer= not to read slash," if I come to someone asking for beta help with my lat= est slash story or to say, "I don't read AU" if ask by a cage-rattler like= me what people's views on reading AU are. ;) But when someone shouts this= out right off the bat, without reason or provocation, I think that it do= es contribute to a feeling for some writers that they're being shoved asid= e and disregarded in the minds of their peers simply for what they write, = not what they have to say or how well they say it. It's like Oshun said so= mewhere in this tangled thread (and this is paraphrased since it was hard = enough to find _this_ message to reply to!): "I realize now that half the = people on this list won't read what I write." Period. End of story. I can = completely empathize with someone who feels dismayed by this. Again, I am= not trying to make anyone feel bad or even to suggest that people need to= do things differently; this is all 100% my opinion, based on my experienc= es in fandom, which several threads now have shown are vastly different fr= om the experiences of others in this group. But many of you have very eloq= uently expressed why you need your preferences and why it's not as easy fo= r you to step away from them as it is for others, so I thought I'd give th= e perspective of some authors who frequently find their work part of a wo= n't-read list on a ff.net profile or blurted out in a forum discussion. A= nd now I have a sudden strange hankering to try bananas again ... ;) Take = care, all, Dawn F. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1925 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91600 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 18:20:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2008 18:20:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 18:20:14 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bdd.2c6c416c (48576) for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:20:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:20:44 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213035644" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=bHv5odwwEoJgq16HDyTx7ujWJ3F04tAlwxI5VPqcx4Wc-v_lvXe8 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213035644 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I appreciate your post, Dawn. Although, if anything, I have been kicking myself for being so transparent about my own feelings in a public forum. Writing is a strange thing, because whether one is guarded or spills one's guts regularly, we all reveal a great deal about ourselves in our work. In real world writing situations, it is presented in dollars and cents. For me, when I worked fulltime as a journalist, it was always very simple. Want this job ? Great! You got it. No 30-word sentences and watch the adverbs. No discussion about style, grammar, British or American spelling, etc. Here's the style book. Look it up. Subject matter, content, taboos? Don't worry about them. Give it your best shot and we'll cut everything we don't want (no discussion, mind you) and you'll be expected to figure what not to include over time. You're OK as long as we see a decent learning curve. Initially in my fanfiction I reveled in the thought that nobody could ever again tell me how or what to write. This was for fun, with just enough geeky research to satisfy my inner nerd. I also thought of fiction as literature and not cash-oriented. Even if I wrote for publication, I'd do it my way. The fact is that I do post it in public places and do want others to read what I write. I never wanted to post slovenly trash and make a complete fool of myself, but my standards have risen. I actually would like to learn to write decent fiction. I think I have improved a lot. (I'm so sorry, I'm rambling again.) I've invested a lot of myself in this stuff. Being dismissed in a public forum out-of-hand without even the hope that someone might come back in several months and take a second look, to see if I've improved, is hurtful. OK. OK. You can say to me: maybe this is not your audience. But, yes it is, perhaps not my specific niche or smallest subset, but it is the bigger pool from which I draw. It is not just that I like meat and Dawn won't touch it on principle (Actually, one of favorite restaurants is vegetarian (sound familiar? LOL).) I will not try to make her eat meat, or against her will, listen to gory details about a well-turned roast. Neither will I say snarky things about vegetarians, as though I expect that everyone, of course, agrees or that at the very least it is perfectly reasonable to express that negative opinion loudly and clearly, with all my various justifications. I'm absolutely going to stop whining. But I do think people should realize there is a wide spread of taste, opinion, and moral and ethical concerns present in this environment. Thanks, again, Dawn for making some of these points in a more general and less personal manner. Oshun **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1213035644 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I appreciate your= post, Dawn. Although, if anything, I have been kicking myself for be= ing so transparent about my own feelings in a public forum. Writing is a s= trange thing, because whether one is guarded or spills one's guts regularl= y, we all reveal a great deal about ourselves in our work.
&nbs= p;
In real world writing situations, it is presented in dollars = and cents. For me, when I worked fulltime as a journalist, it was always v= ery simple. Want this job ? Great! You got it. No 30-word sentences and wa= tch the adverbs. No discussion about style, grammar, British or American s= pelling, etc. Here's the style book. Look it up. Subject matter, content, = taboos? Don't worry about them. Give it your best shot and we'll cut every= thing we don't want (no discussion, mind you) and you'll be expe= cted to figure what not to include over time. You're OK as long as we= see a decent learning curve.
 
Initially in&nbs= p;my fanfiction I reveled in the thought that nobody could ever again tell= me how or what to write. This was for fun, with just enough geeky re= search to satisfy my inner nerd. I also thought of fiction as literature a= nd not cash-oriented. Even if I wrote for publication, I'd do it my way. T= he fact is that I do post it in public places and do want o= thers to read what I write. I never wanted to post slovenly trash and make = a complete fool of myself, but my standards have risen. I actually wo= uld like to learn to write decent fiction. I think I have improved a = lot. (I'm so sorry, I'm rambling again.) I've invested a lot of myself in = this stuff. Being dismissed in a public forum out-of-hand without&nbs= p;even the hope that someone might come back in several months a= nd take a second look, to see if I've improved, is hurtful. OK. OK. Y= ou can say to me: maybe this is not your audience. But, yes it is, pe= rhaps not my specific niche or smallest subset, but it is the bigger pool = from which I draw.
 
It is not just that I like = meat and Dawn won't touch it on principle  (Actually, one of favorite= restaurants is vegetarian (sound familiar? LOL).) I will not try to = make her eat meat, or against her will, listen to gory details a= bout a well-turned roast. Neither will I say snarky things = about vegetarians, as though I expect that everyone, of course, agrees or = that at the very least it is perfectly reasonable to express that negative= opinion loudly and clearly, with all my various justifications.
 
I'm absolutely going to stop whining. But I do think p= eople should realize there is a wide spread of taste, opinion, and mo= ral and ethical concerns present in this environment.
 
Thanks, again, Dawn for making some of these points in a= more general and less personal manner.
 
Oshun=



Get trade secrets for a= mazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with T= yler Florence" on AOL Food.
-------------------------------1213035644-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1926 Return-Path: X-Sender: vanimore_gorthaurion@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98720 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 18:25:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2008 18:25:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.132) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 18:25:56 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2008 18:25:56 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2008 18:25:56 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2008 18:25:56 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:25:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "vanimore_gorthaurion" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=345322431; y=nWqIk4Tc_R0Y1jxBLCMLcyBQZzJ73bdLHhAFPqdZw9WOnRGEMeOaXx9o-YCr-iQ X-Yahoo-Profile: vanimore_gorthaurion Tastes change, or rather, I can be lured into something I would not normall= y read if the writing is good enough, which is where " it is at " to me. = I went off het after over twenty years of reading steamy het and attempting= to write it - although not in the Tolkien fandom. Then when I did discover= fanfiction and ran across so many Sue's I was even more put-off, since to = me they were simply Mills and Boon in Middle-earth except even more writt= en. So I would only ever click on slash, since I found there was passion bu= t little fluff, which I also don't like save in minute doses. ( I was so sh= ocked when I first found a slash story I swear my embarrassment turned off = the pc by itself. I am not homophobic at all, it was just very alien to me,= but I was interested in the dynamics of the relationship so I went back an= d it was a terrific story, which I still follow. ) This is the sort of th= ing that happens to me: I do have on my profile I won't read basically anyt= hing that is not slash, or I did, I may have changed it. There was a spate = of people saying they hated slash, slash writers were sick, cascades of sug= ary Sue's and most importantly, two people who emailed me who read somethin= g I had written but were afraid to review in case they got attacked for lik= ing slash. To me that is dreadful! So I stated I would not read het, Sue's,= crossovers, Hobbits, just about anything but slash. ( That's not entirely = true, some of my favorites are friendship/adventure but I was furious. )So,= I was never going to even look at one het story ever again, etc, etc. Wi= thin about 5 days was sent some writing by an author of a WIP, just to see = what I thought, and then clicked on " The Work Of Small Hands. " Neither = story was slash, and the main characters were female and I got completely e= ngrossed by both, because they were so vivid and the stories were beautiful= ly written and enthralling. The same happened to me with slash, really. I d= id not know it existed, so I had no preconceived ideas, so with was a real = shock to find it. The writing was so good that I followed it with a kind of= intrigued wariness and then backed off when it came to the sex, but I coul= d see there was a hell of a story which could evolve so I returned to it an= d I am forever glad I did. Now, the sex is more part of the working dynamic= s of the relationship than anything, something which is important to any co= uple, since intimacy is, but is essential to ongoing plot and working out o= f the story, it is not the focus, unless the story is PWP, but I tend to li= ke a plot and long stories, rather than sex for the sake of it. I will al= ways range on the side of MM slash, since I have read so many better storie= s in it than het and because on sites such as ff.net slash writers are insu= lted and maligned, but mostly are too mature to care. I certainly don't, an= d just write because the act of writing is good for me and I love the conce= pt of Middle-earth, not for an audience. But I know for a fact I can mainta= in a view and suddenly it changes, but for me it changes because of the wri= ting and that is the first and last for me, not the content or subject, the= way in which it is written. Never say never, I should remember that. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1927 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9571 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 18:26:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2008 18:26:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 18:26:16 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d4e.2b77affa (48576) for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:26:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:26:44 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213036004" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=jlH33D9ZFNOgD_Yz4hE9Nyc8IwIzPV3s_P81WXMh2PSwgYRWgMDm X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213036004 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yikes. I just read my last email and it still sounds defensive. I guess I still need to work on that. Oshun **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1213036004 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Yikes. I just rea= d my last email and it still sounds defensive. I guess I still need to wor= k on that.
 
Oshun



=
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food= .
-------------------------------1213036004-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1928 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49912 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 18:51:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2008 18:51:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.183) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 18:51:41 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z74so888782pyg.9 for ; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:51:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.77.19 with SMTP id z19mr3814261waa.138.1213037500411; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:51:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 11:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:51:40 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_24380_29845577.1213037500329" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=3_gv1kz9Y5jiE0Lk6etvRvC8Jn2kep3h5evz8k2I3fsA0TNC24g_ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_24380_29845577.1213037500329-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1929 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73659 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 19:10:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2008 19:10:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 19:10:34 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 1699 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jun 2008 19:10:34 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 4pAZoAwVM1nRC2PQw0s1fYEu9XJiLvTFzcigObTUjWZsYRKS2aNo.WqFM3bf4TJGXSQi3GbpVLA6Ggzro3EsoCMWXbLCrbJUaTx1uuGfPBgZwVLvjcaABCE- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:10:34 PDT Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:10:34 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-95189683-1213038634=:887" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <220989.887.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=SMmndNke0FWAQj7w1zxQzT8h4BeIrqzSjDh2bRlhk_hUt1kA2Q X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-95189683-1213038634=:887 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree with Dawn that its not only slash that gets put down in the fandom. Mary Sue is just as bad as slash among those dreaded things people claim they don't write or read. When I first started on OSA, someone moved my story from AU to Femme Fatale. I was horrified that *gasp* no one would read it because it was labeled that therefore it was a Mary Sue. I had very little idea what a Mary Sue other than she was bad bad bad and everywhere I looked was labels like "This is NOT a Mary Sue" and "I won't read Mary Sue". I had even read a list on a forum on what makes a Mary Sue and had changed some of my character's attributes to not fit into that category. It took a long time to realize that each person's idea of what defines a Mary Sue. AND The big thing is if you write a Mary Sue - make her the most interesting, enjoyable Mary Sue evah and people will read it anyway. Some of the most popular stories around are complete Mary Sues if you go by the rules but obviously people still enjoy them. And as I've said before - Luthien was the biggest Mary Sue of all. As far as I know I don't have it on any profile that I won't read slash and/or Mary Sue etc. I once made a comment on LJ about twincest and insulted one of my friends who wrote it. I have always thought that slash was more popular than het in the LOTR fandom though. Is that not the case? People don't realize how easy it is to offend someone when you put on your story or your profile "This is NOT a Mary Sue" Or "This is NOT slash" like its something to be ashamed of. I have found myself offended by the Mary Sue comment as well. I think my stories summaries pretty much show that its het and I leave it up to the reader to decide if its Mary Sue story or not. I don't think my WIP is but according to the Council of Elrond site - it is lol I don't see many people posting there anyway so pfft to them. Now people need to start writing fluffy, Mary Sue, movie!verse slash. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-95189683-1213038634=:887 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I agree with Dawn that its not only slash that gets put down in the fandom. Mary Sue is just as bad as slash among those dreaded things people claim they don't write or read. When I first started on OSA, someone moved my story from AU to Femme Fatale. I was horrified that *gasp* no one would read it because it was labeled that therefore it was a Mary Sue. I had very little idea what a Mary Sue other than she was bad bad bad and everywhere I looked was labels like "This is NOT a Mary Sue" and "I won't read Mary Sue". I had even read a list on a forum on what makes a Mary Sue and had changed some of my character's attributes to not fit into that category. It took a long time to realize that each person's idea of what defines a Mary Sue. AND The big thing is if you write a Mary Sue - make her the most interesting, enjoyable Mary Sue evah and people will read it anyway. Some of the most popular stories around are complete Mary Sues if you go by the rules but obviously people still enjoy them. And as I've said before - Luthien was the biggest Mary Sue of all. As far as I know I don't have it on any profile that I won't read slash and/or Mary Sue etc. I once made a comment on LJ about twincest and insulted one of my friends who wrote it. I have always thought that slash was more popular than het in the LOTR fandom though. Is that not the case?
 
People don't realize how easy it is to offend someone when you put on your story or your profile "This is NOT a Mary Sue" Or "This is NOT slash" like its something to be ashamed of. I have found myself offended by the Mary Sue comment as well. I think my stories summaries pretty much show that its het and I leave it up to the reader to decide if its Mary Sue story or not. I don't think my WIP is but according to the Council of Elrond site - it is lol I don't see many people posting there anyway so pfft to them.
 
Now people need to start writing fluffy, Mary Sue, movie!verse slash.


~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-95189683-1213038634=:887-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1930 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76774 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 19:13:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2008 19:13:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 19:13:42 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 90776 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jun 2008 19:13:41 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: z.Ng7m8VM1kAE720cp7PuQpjRDBBUvssoG4nfQ8JjlmrFri0RDD9l_M7XaNbvauKjOGMGnZ8U6sL3jVaTKmTj1m1zFi7pvHql.vFzhm4YEwE0pu3DR.W8l4- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:13:41 PDT Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:13:41 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <220989.887.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1596107365-1213038821=:87734" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <889524.87734.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=VQGhKqUY-8xq6X0TNUMiI6sdz2Qf63qAnqgH0gDyvrF-lUNnOQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1596107365-1213038821=:87734 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit good gosh that post was barely readable. *headdeskthud* Just ignore me. Alassante7 wrote: I agree with Dawn that its not only slash that gets put down in the fandom. Mary Sue is just as bad as slash among those dreaded things people claim they don't write or read. When I first started on OSA, someone moved my story from AU to Femme Fatale. I was horrified that *gasp* no one would read it because it was labeled that therefore it was a Mary Sue. I had very little idea what a Mary Sue other than she was bad bad bad and everywhere I looked was labels like "This is NOT a Mary Sue" and "I won't read Mary Sue". I had even read a list on a forum on what makes a Mary Sue and had changed some of my character's attributes to not fit into that category. It took a long time to realize that each person's idea of what defines a Mary Sue. AND The big thing is if you write a Mary Sue - make her the most interesting, enjoyable Mary Sue evah and people will read it anyway. Some of the most popular stories around are complete Mary Sues if you go by the rules but obviously people still enjoy them. And as I've said before - Luthien was the biggest Mary Sue of all. As far as I know I don't have it on any profile that I won't read slash and/or Mary Sue etc. I once made a comment on LJ about twincest and insulted one of my friends who wrote it. I have always thought that slash was more popular than het in the LOTR fandom though. Is that not the case? People don't realize how easy it is to offend someone when you put on your story or your profile "This is NOT a Mary Sue" Or "This is NOT slash" like its something to be ashamed of. I have found myself offended by the Mary Sue comment as well. I think my stories summaries pretty much show that its het and I leave it up to the reader to decide if its Mary Sue story or not. I don't think my WIP is but according to the Council of Elrond site - it is lol I don't see many people posting there anyway so pfft to them. Now people need to start writing fluffy, Mary Sue, movie!verse slash. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1596107365-1213038821=:87734 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit good gosh that post was barely readable. *headdeskthud* Just ignore me.

Alassante7 wrote:

I agree with Dawn that its not only slash that gets put down in the fandom. Mary Sue is just as bad as slash among those dreaded things people claim they don't write or read. When I first started on OSA, someone moved my story from AU to Femme Fatale. I was horrified that *gasp* no one would read it because it was labeled that therefore it was a Mary Sue. I had very little idea what a Mary Sue other than she was bad bad bad and everywhere I looked was labels like "This is NOT a Mary Sue" and "I won't read Mary Sue". I had even read a list on a forum on what makes a Mary Sue and had changed some of my character's attributes to not fit into that category. It took a long time to realize that each person's idea of what defines a Mary Sue. AND The big thing is if you write a Mary Sue - make her the most interesting, enjoyable Mary Sue evah and people will read it anyway. Some of the most popular stories around are complete Mary Sues if you go by the rules but obviously people still enjoy them. And as I've said before - Luthien was the biggest Mary Sue of all. As far as I know I don't have it on any profile that I won't read slash and/or Mary Sue etc. I once made a comment on LJ about twincest and insulted one of my friends who wrote it. I have always thought that slash was more popular than het in the LOTR fandom though. Is that not the case?
 
People don't realize how easy it is to offend someone when you put on your story or your profile "This is NOT a Mary Sue" Or "This is NOT slash" like its something to be ashamed of. I have found myself offended by the Mary Sue comment as well. I think my stories summaries pretty much show that its het and I leave it up to the reader to decide if its Mary Sue story or not. I don't think my WIP is but according to the Council of Elrond site - it is lol I don't see many people posting there anyway so pfft to them.
 
Now people need to start writing fluffy, Mary Sue, movie!verse slash.


~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 



~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1596107365-1213038821=:87734-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1931 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10996 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 19:18:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2008 19:18:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.157) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 19:18:33 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so1159187ywk.12 for ; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:18:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.218.6 with SMTP id q6mr1608262wfg.186.1213039113045; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:18:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806091218m7b4ba8cfi87d6f913f6846c87@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:18:32 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8753_33137566.1213039113029" X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9887abb899673799 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: NOW: tasteful reading // WAS: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=O-_qkbjLdSf6Tq1CKXKrKD-z90lOTNFJjxdJnWRz4_kMgg X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_8753_33137566.1213039113029-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1932 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44352 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 19:41:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2008 19:41:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n11d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.60) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 19:41:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2008 19:41:09 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2008 19:41:09 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 19:41:08 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conventions (was: OT from Stories Servin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=l3i_YFhDnwm9GjZFRjCk-QLHRGO08csDWujc_ztV3GyXVvQ X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Hi Dawn, I think your post is spot on; thanks for taking the time to artic= ulate the situation so well. An earlier point that you and others have = made in this discussion is that we all have to remember that we are all par= ticipating in a community. If I've finally hit on a food analogy that work= s, I believe the correspondence is: People with reading preferences that t= hey strictly adhere to, for whatever reason =3D Vegetarians People who don= 't have any a priori reading restrictions =3D Omnivores There are doubtles= s at least a few in-between categories (... let's see, what would be the fa= nfic equivalent of an Offal Eater?) I absolutely agree with you, Dawn, abo= ut proclaiming front and center, unasked, "I will not read Such and Such." = That would be like walking into a pot-luck supper and telling the room, "I= will not eat anything that contains meat!" In so doing one would be impli= citly, if unintentionally, issuing a condemnation of anyone who brought a m= eat dish to pass. Rude! But equally rude would be the person at the potlu= ck who sees your plate heaped with salad, bread, and vegetable lasagna, and= tells you that you really ought to try the Chicken Surprise, because "you = never know, you might like it!" Or who starts a public conversation about = how silly vegetarians are. Of course even this food analogy only goes so f= ar, because if I bring my Brussels Sprouts Surprise dish (yes, I really do = have a recipe by that name, and the secret ingredient is bacon!) and few pe= ople eat it, there will be more for me to eat when I take it home! OK, I w= ould be a bit hurt and disappointed if no one tried my BSS, but there would= be that small consolation. Whereas the only reason we share our fanfic sto= ries is to share them and hopefully hear what other people think about our = ideas, writing, etc. Anyway, thanks for your response here, Dawn. I cou= ld go for a yogurt-banana smoothie today (it's super hot in Boston!). Unfo= rtunately I did not plan in advance and have no bananas in the freezer. Ch= eers, Gwidhiel From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1933 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47705 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 20:05:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2008 20:05:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.175) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 20:05:34 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so2351491wfg.10 for ; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.218.6 with SMTP id q6mr1630119wfg.150.1213041933784; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:05:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 13:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:05:33 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0806091218m7b4ba8cfi87d6f913f6846c87@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11378_10073910.1213041933733" References: <3c715e1e0806091218m7b4ba8cfi87d6f913f6846c87@mail.gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: NOW: tasteful reading // WAS: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8DeFO-5Ck_5yuycWHAjVvl7J3Hswe_5bKOuUCAq6YuTPORwaWJWa X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11378_10073910.1213041933733-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1934 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35007 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2008 23:46:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2008 23:46:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n49d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.175) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2008 23:46:41 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n49.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2008 23:46:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2008 23:46:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2008 23:46:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:46:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: NOW: tasteful reading // WAS: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=x9quKmWBQD1GGth4xsx8wbs6AH5CKqsEWz75fWf1pbIP1LQheQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala In defense of those 15-year-olds, though, it's like you say: they've probab= ly only been here for two weeks or so. It takes a while to acclimate. Whe= n you first come to fanfiction, there's a lot to get used to. Things that = seem normal to us after we've been in fandom for years don't necessarily se= em that way for the first couple days. Sure, there are some things that wi= ll never appeal to some people (and yes, vegetarianism was a good example -= the idea of people eating dead animals will always be pretty creepy for me= ), but I think these people are just being so vocal about their distaste of= certain things because they're freaked out. Give them some time - it's pr= etty much inevitable that they will end up trying these things they claim t= o hate - and if they're still the same way in five years, well, that's anot= her matter. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1935 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60371 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 00:33:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 00:33:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.170) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 00:33:11 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so2409744wfg.15 for ; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:33:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.172.12 with SMTP id u12mr1745427wfe.19.1213057990585; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:33:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 17:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806091733o4ed2d7abgffeeb6700d958501@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 19:33:10 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10708_14021071.1213057990588" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: a465f8081c385bbc X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: NOW: tasteful reading // WAS: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=IQlzkzNh2TwQv4JGMqROj-Zr3QESF7mGF78yyzkX-e1zEw X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_10708_14021071.1213057990588-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1936 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27760 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 00:43:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 00:43:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.175) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 00:43:36 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2940614wfc.11 for ; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:43:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.172.12 with SMTP id u12mr1749465wfe.19.1213058616780; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:43:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 17:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 20:43:36 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11972_11922923.1213058616775" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Archive Users--FYI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=PpnR0-JOK-SyR0s5nhBy4t0vXADB90ZARUTZlw5oA-rJb9gZSX1G X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11972_11922923.1213058616775-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1937 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24657 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 00:55:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 00:55:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.144) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 00:55:34 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 00:55:34 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 00:55:33 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 00:55:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:55:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: NOW: tasteful reading // WAS: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=iPhSMZgvTfD92lWSRFT8-QpjzRaVuC-khCn9KVWE5WvaGN584Q0H X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund You're right, Feta, that I'm being unfair to younger writers. It's hardly j= ust them, and I'll confess that it was a convenient example. A better quest= ion is why it is normative to declare one's dislikes so blatantly in fandom= . I have my theories (of course ... that is an occupational hazard of being= a social scientist ;) but it's getting late and I _don't_ have energy to t= ype up another ramble right now ... :^P Dawn --- In SilmarillionWritersGu= ild@yahoogroups.com, "Feta" wrote: > > In defense of those= 15-year-olds, though, it's like you say: they've > probably only been here= for two weeks or so. It takes a while to > acclimate. When you first com= e to fanfiction, there's a lot to get used > to. Things that seem normal t= o us after we've been in fandom for years > don't necessarily seem that way= for the first couple days. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1938 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33090 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 01:08:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 01:08:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.170) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 01:08:27 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2597053wfc.18 for ; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:08:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.223.4 with SMTP id v4mr1743358wfg.166.1213060107177; Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:08:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jun 2008 18:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806091808i7a4d31e8j78bc7bf754246efa@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 20:08:22 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10956_5971319.1213060102138" References: <3c715e1e0806091218m7b4ba8cfi87d6f913f6846c87@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d7b0248c68345e3b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: NOW: tasteful reading // WAS: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=FqaTMbJIEEa0BKvm4c592d_urLUycirkPVzrBOIFh5u3eA X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_10956_5971319.1213060102138-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1939 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5404 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 01:13:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 01:13:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n12.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.139) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 01:13:27 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n12.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 01:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 01:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 01:13:26 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:13:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: NOW: tasteful reading // WAS: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=ZMdEkLxuRHfD4kRLvtlNGLOgMa49s67y20UBkNhluLlsWfihGg X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala Of course it's not just young writers, but the majority of them are *new*. = I mean, I may "only" be seventeen, but if I ever acted even half as bigote= d as some of these people, I hope very much that you or someone would slap = some sense into me. The main issue, really, are the people who *don't* out= grow it. We all run into them (or they run into us)... I am at such a loss= to understand these people. And it's like you said: "why it is normative = to declare one's dislikes so blatantly in fandom?" Overlooking frightened = newbies, I really haven't got a clue. Sure, everyone has something that bo= thers them, but it seems like most of us are pretty accepting here. And th= ey're probably sitting around somewhere right now, asking the opposite abou= t us: "Why are these people tolerant of so much?" Well, I like our crime b= etter. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1940 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89639 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 12:54:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 12:54:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 12:54:27 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D989748065 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:54:26 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:54:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:54:22 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <923689011.20080610145422@tlen.pl> To: Feta In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Declaring dislikes in profile X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=LeojYdl5JOOrqBnEddGwCwJW6gOA3rUFkK8RecK0gkHsb-KOPgA X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle What about declaring this way belonging to a group? Social activity, remember? Such info in profile is nothing new, fanficcers used to have statements in their profiles what they will not read or beta. Only what was potential information for beta seekers became now a way to manifest one's dislikes and superiority in some cases. It's the same as if they wrote I am fan of band X, gardening, etc. Here Dawn's analogy with school would work well. They figured out who are the "popular" people in fandom (and opposite unpopular group), depending on their world view, maturity and age it might be a group of people who dislike some kind of stories, so they join that popular group by openly disliking these, too. It'll pass with time, teenagers and newcomers just feel need to manifest to get accepted in a group. To be strong it's good to have external enemy to dislike, too. And when they are really new and see such statements everywhere they think it's a rule. But together with the awful trend of being cynical, sarcastic, biting and laughing out others in depreciative way we get such open declarations of disliking all the inferior types of fiction and being superior over those who like them. I've got a feeling a that to some people addressing others without a caustic remark is a sign of weakness and immaturity :/ I like to read sarcastic comments, tutorials and journals from time to time, especially when I agree with the core message but I'm really worried with the amount of the phenomena. But I'm also worried of the opposite tendency to tolerate everything and avoiding of showing up ones opinions and dislikes. Every extremity is dangerous. As long as people state their opinions in a neutral way and they do nothing to depreciate the disliked objects it's perfectly normal, even if they treat it as a kind of manifesto. The problem is only with witch hunts, this can't be tolerated, but we're talking about the majority who just state "I don't read X" not trolls spamming stories with ugly comments. Newcomers, not only. I've got info that I read especially Silmarillion fan fiction focused on Noldor. To be trendy I should change it into "only Silm fics" or "I will not read LotR", I guess, but I'm too lazy ;P Also recently I'm in a paranoid mood to erase every info I left in fandom, change my nick into 233ney^sate*g59+ so no search engine would display my activity to unwanted people from the outside world ;) BTW, browsing FF.net is not that hard, I had no problems at all when I came there for the first time. Maybe wonky search engine was a problem, but I think it got fixed long time ago. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1941 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61835 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 13:01:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 13:01:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 13:01:04 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E717104025 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:01:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:01:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:01:02 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <939323200.20080610150102@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <923689011.20080610145422@tlen.pl> References: <923689011.20080610145422@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Oh layziness X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=oydy9Xu1u6mst8Kh0nMgXmuLtgipQmsGwP2swNHmC03jNiSuvI4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle I didn't edit address and my last post went addressed to Feta, but it supposed to be a general one, of course. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1942 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52182 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 13:47:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 13:47:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 13:47:51 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id w53so1144511pyg.25 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:47:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.24.1 with SMTP id 1mr4899831wax.74.1213105670116; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:47:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:47:50 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_29104_11269728.1213105670105" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: SoA FYI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YdYXbuVkjzM1P21n0s8XPf9W1cfUj9B-gvhjDVtp-wYfHndULFAW X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_29104_11269728.1213105670105-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1943 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53724 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 13:49:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 13:49:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.97) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 13:49:43 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 94239 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2008 13:49:42 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 9fZP2j8VM1mIeiK1u.TPsYXKxO0SGyUDRp6PstABcJTDnS4p6kk8RHgMvBGEw8q.SUWP04h5lshsRv4gZ_5Ed9hISgkgTCXQAwFoDPGQ06FSIo9d2aDHO.E- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:49:42 PDT Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:49:42 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <923689011.20080610145422@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-443366199-1213105782=:94217" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <388371.94217.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Declaring dislikes in profile X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=Eaa89Vls6XgY3VNL8V-o9r3phK9tXDUXWUXcAQEOA7NV_NuzGA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-443366199-1213105782=:94217 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've been reading this back and forth for a few days and unless I'm totally off base, we are actually dealing mainly with one archive - ff.net and some people in the fandom in general. SWG and HASA do not allow flamers. OSA and SoA are a Het only sites. The slash archives are obviously not going to complain about slash. I'm not sure about LOTR-FF but I think they would not allow flames either. So basically its one archive that has been nicknamed the 'The Pit' for a reason. There are people on that site who actually look for stories to flame and I think they flame as many Mary Sue's as they do slash. There are always going to be rude people and on a site as big as FF who has terrible management when it comes to things like flaming - its almost unavoidable. When people can post hate filled rants in their forum and tear into other writers while they post crap fic or stories they have plagerized, you cannot have much respect for the management of the site. I can only imagine how hurtful and frustrating it would make a person - not to mention pissed off! If that is the only place you post and you are facing some of these discriminations to the point of making you feel like an outcast - go to the more quality sites. Most people post on various archives and I rarely hear about complaints on treatment or flames except on FF.net not to mention thats where the Deleterius and GAFF (if they are still around) get most of their stories. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-443366199-1213105782=:94217 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've been reading this back and forth for a few days and unless I'm totally off base, we are actually dealing mainly with one archive - ff.net and some people in the fandom in general. SWG and HASA do not allow flamers. OSA and SoA are a Het only sites. The slash archives are obviously not going to complain about slash. I'm not sure about LOTR-FF but I think they would not allow flames either. So basically its one archive that has been nicknamed the 'The Pit' for a reason. There are people on that site who actually look for stories to flame and I think they flame as many Mary Sue's as they do slash. There are always going to be rude people and on a site as big as FF who has terrible management when it comes to things like flaming - its almost unavoidable. When people can post hate filled rants in their forum and tear into other writers while they post crap fic or stories they have plagerized, you cannot have much respect for the management of the site. I can only imagine how hurtful and frustrating it would make a person - not to mention pissed off! If that is the only place you post and you are facing some of these discriminations to the point of making you feel like an outcast - go to the more quality sites. Most people post on various archives and I rarely hear about complaints on treatment or flames except on FF.net not to mention thats where the Deleterius and GAFF (if they are still around) get most of their stories.


~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-443366199-1213105782=:94217-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1944 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88778 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 14:09:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 14:09:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.139) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 14:09:40 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 14:09:40 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 14:09:40 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 14:09:40 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:09:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <388371.94217.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Declaring dislikes in profile X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=TSuBcIwhe5skC2mXyGg3iOER-PcdpfGjxm9PgYN5Rp2quI6Wfhwj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund I think I may have started the confusion ... :) I was talking about genera= l negativity in fandom, and I used the example of the numerous ff.net user= s (at least in the Silm section) who include in their profiles a won't-rea= d list or at least declare openly and without reason what they won't read.= Which kind of led into talking about ff.net and ff.net users and their pr= ofiles in general ... :) However, I have seen the same thing other places= , including SWG, i.e., "Hi, I'm Dawn Felagund and I love The Silmarillion = and Tolkien's world. I have been writing fan fiction for the last four yea= rs. I love stories about the House of Feanor! I don't read slash or AU." = (Not true, obviously, as I have _written_ both. ;) I question the relevanc= e of mentioning this ... and lots of people do. It just wouldn't be the fi= rst thing I'd think of mentioning in a mixed group of people. Like when I = joined the SCA: "Hi, I'm Dawn. I'm new here. I'm interested in calligraphy= and illumination and Middle English poetry. I'm not interested in heavy f= ighting and Vikings." At the moment, that is true (which isn't to say that= it will always be true, and some of my best friends are Vikings ;) ... bu= t it just seems like a weird way to introduce oneself, so I'm curious what= makes it normative in fandom. I'm completely with you on ff.net, by the = way. I have work up there, and I have met wonderful people there, and I ha= ve read some excellent stories, but I can't stand the way the site is mana= ged. People often call it the "Pit of Voles" because of the perceived low = quality of the stories posted there compared to other archives, but I thin= k said "voles" refer more to the nasty, small-minded individuals permitte= d to spew their hate upon authors trying to have a good time or learn more= about writing. /rant ;) Dawn --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups= .com, Alassante7 wrote: > > I've been reading this back a= nd forth for a few days and unless I'm totally off base, we are actually d= ealing mainly with one archive - ff.net and some people in the fandom in g= eneral. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1945 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10387 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 14:18:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 14:18:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 14:18:16 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 26298 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2008 14:18:15 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Ig6IxOIVM1nRn2wLyi2kPoVHXG2ekE_3sKXFCQFcHNJnRRHZgrcJgjBCD9zjU8p7IEOSEJwVoPv5xiZVz_SMIn_x7XGUP6DSXrlkO95lS7sAy_yPCcFKR2Y- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:18:15 PDT Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:18:15 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1647271323-1213107495=:15251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <666688.15251.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Declaring dislikes in profile X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=boXupF-zz2i4TxSYGkOFROfkqo1ipWSjSpcXLWoHj_b_kuQ26g X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1647271323-1213107495=:15251 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm completely with you on ff.net, by the way. I have work up there, and I have met wonderful people there, and I have read some excellent stories, but I can't stand the way the site is managed. People often call it the "Pit of Voles" because of the perceived low quality of the stories posted there compared to other archives, but I think said "voles" refer more to the nasty, small-minded individuals permitted to spew their hate upon authors trying to have a good time or learn more about writing. /rant ;) I always thought the voles were the flamers not the bad writers. It seems to be a source of pride for some people to be a flamer. Its rather sad and I think it shows an immaturity on their part - no matter their age. I've seen 16-18 year olds act more mature in the fandom than some of the 'adults'. I have stuff posted there as well but thankfully I have flown under the radar as a target and I avoid the forums like the plague. Dawn Felagund wrote: I think I may have started the confusion ... :) I was talking about general negativity in fandom, and I used the example of the numerous ff.net users (at least in the Silm section) who include in their profiles a won't-read list or at least declare openly and without reason what they won't read. Which kind of led into talking about ff.net and ff.net users and their profiles in general ... :) However, I have seen the same thing other places, including SWG, i.e., "Hi, I'm Dawn Felagund and I love The Silmarillion and Tolkien's world. I have been writing fan fiction for the last four years. I love stories about the House of Feanor! I don't read slash or AU." (Not true, obviously, as I have _written_ both. ;) I question the relevance of mentioning this ... and lots of people do. It just wouldn't be the first thing I'd think of mentioning in a mixed group of people. Like when I joined the SCA: "Hi, I'm Dawn. I'm new here. I'm interested in calligraphy and illumination and Middle English poetry. I'm not interested in heavy fighting and Vikings." At the moment, that is true (which isn't to say that it will always be true, and some of my best friends are Vikings ;) ... but it just seems like a weird way to introduce oneself, so I'm curious what makes it normative in fandom. I'm completely with you on ff.net, by the way. I have work up there, and I have met wonderful people there, and I have read some excellent stories, but I can't stand the way the site is managed. People often call it the "Pit of Voles" because of the perceived low quality of the stories posted there compared to other archives, but I think said "voles" refer more to the nasty, small-minded individuals permitted to spew their hate upon authors trying to have a good time or learn more about writing. /rant ;) Dawn --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > I've been reading this back and forth for a few days and unless I'm totally off base, we are actually dealing mainly with one archive - ff.net and some people in the fandom in general. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1647271323-1213107495=:15251 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I'm completely with you on ff.net, by the way. I have work up there,
and I have met wonderful people there, and I have read some excellent
stories, but I can't stand the way the site is managed. People often
call it the "Pit of Voles" because of the perceived low quality of the
stories posted there compared to other archives, but I think
said "voles" refer more to the nasty, small-minded individuals
permitted to spew their hate upon authors trying to have a good time
or learn more about writing. /rant ;)
I always thought the voles were the flamers not the bad writers. It seems to be a source of pride for some people to be a flamer. Its rather sad and I think it shows an immaturity on their part - no matter their age. I've seen 16-18 year olds act more mature in the fandom than some of the 'adults'. I have stuff posted there as well but thankfully I have flown under the radar as a target and I avoid the forums like the plague.
 

Dawn Felagund wrote:
I think I may have started the confusion ... :)

I was talking about general negativity in fandom, and I used the
example of the numerous ff.net users (at least in the Silm section)
who include in their profiles a won't-read list or at least declare
openly and without reason what they won't read. Which kind of led into
talking about ff.net and ff.net users and their profiles in
general ... :)

However, I have seen the same thing other places, including SWG,
i.e., "Hi, I'm Dawn Felagund and I love The Silmarillion and Tolkien's
world. I have been writing fan fiction for the last four years. I love
stories about the House of Feanor! I don't read slash or AU."

(Not true, obviously, as I have _written_ both. ;)

I question the relevance of mentioning this ... and lots of people do.
It just wouldn't be the first thing I'd think of mentioning in a mixed
group of people. Like when I joined the SCA: "Hi, I'm Dawn. I'm new
here. I'm interested in calligraphy and illumination and Middle
English poetry. I'm not interested in heavy fighting and Vikings." At
the moment, that is true (which isn't to say that it will always be
true, and some of my best friends are Vikings ;) ... but it just seems
like a weird way to introduce oneself, so I'm curious what makes it
normative in fandom.

I'm completely with you on ff.net, by the way. I have work up there,
and I have met wonderful people there, and I have read some excellent
stories, but I can't stand the way the site is managed. People often
call it the "Pit of Voles" because of the perceived low quality of the
stories posted there compared to other archives, but I think
said "voles" refer more to the nasty, small-minded individuals
permitted to spew their hate upon authors trying to have a good time
or learn more about writing. /rant ;)

Dawn

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7
...> wrote:
>
> I've been reading this back and forth for a few days and unless I'm
totally off base, we are actually dealing mainly with one archive -
ff.net and some people in the fandom in general.




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1647271323-1213107495=:15251-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1946 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62831 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 15:10:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 15:10:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 15:10:11 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.ccc.3471c76f (30739) for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:09:58 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213110598" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Declaring dislikes in profile X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=vlWGMau2EfzFUVqGv-y7ObPpxEd4XoJv1hWVJy_22y0ehelFW8yc X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213110598 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/10/2008 9:15:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: SCA: "Hi, I'm Dawn. I'm new here. I'm interested in calligraphy and illumination and Middle English poetry. I'm not interested in heavy fighting and Vikings." I'm still cackling. I love that one. I think it's a new art form. I could write those all day. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213110598 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =

In a message date= d 6/10/2008 9:15:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com write= s:
SCA: "Hi, I'm Dawn. I'm new
here= . I'm interested in calligraphy and illumination and Middle
English = poetry. I'm not interested in heavy fighting and Vikings."
I'm still cackling. I love that one. I think it's a new art for= m. I could write those all day.
 
 
=
 



Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. -------------------------------1213110598-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1947 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrapcat21@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84463 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 15:14:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 15:14:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n36b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.150) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 15:14:19 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 15:14:19 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 15:14:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 15:14:19 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:14:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "keiliss" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=238321209; y=6agYSNtFqDO8lH8-0Hj6qBJu4Xop69M8EULVLEnfgpHXqQprqg X-Yahoo-Profile: keiliss I never add my ten cents. I just lurk and occasionally applaud Dawn or Oshu= n for saying it so much better than I could, but an analogy occurred to me = so - a little late, but here's my fifty cents. I know of a couple who won= 't listen to Elton John --- because he's gay. Not because they don't like h= is music or his voice, not because they think he's a stupid little man with= no talent, not because they prefer blue grass and jazz. Because he's gay..= . pity about the nice music. I can compare this to Mary Sues or any of the = other maligned corners of fandom, but applied to myself, this is identical = to refusing to read my novel-length fic because it's slash. Not because you= don't find Gil-galad interesting, not because you don't read early second = age stories, not because you prefer strong adventure/action stories, not ev= en because you think I'm a god-awful writer --- but because it's slash. Gon= e. Dismissed. Only a handful of actual sex scenes, but that's not the issue= . It's slash. We all have likes and dislikes, and some of us are more adv= enturous than others. I'll try everything at least twice to see if maybe I'= ll like it after all, some prefer to stay in their small comfort zone. Some= people have set up their MEFA wish lists so they only read one or two genr= es, some of us have a little bit of everything. It's what works for you. Wh= en it doesn't work is when you tell the other person their way offends you,= is not canon, should only be posted behind a bunch of warnings so it doesn= 't upset anyone... it's the equivalent of telling that writer to use the si= de entrance in future, please. Courtesy and a bit of thoughtfulness don't= cost much. I have a friend who writes twincest. I don't read twincest, but= why would I need to say that? Anywhere. (except here to make a point *g*) = I don't read her twincest stories, but I review almost everything else she = writes. I'm sure she's worked out it's not to my taste, but I don't need to= hold it up like a banner and make her feel I am judging her - because it '= is' judgmental. Saying I'm not drawn to twincest is equivalent to saying he= r taste and writing preference and therefore her world view disgusts me. My= point is, we can look at it from whatever angle we wish, the bottom line i= s we have no business insulting people, and what they write is not disconne= cted from who they are. And no, I wouldn't buy that couple Elton John's Gr= eatest Hits. I would be sorry their close-mindedness deprives them of some = lovely music though, and I would not try and hide or apologise for my likin= g for some of his work - I'm not the one who has a problem with it. One fi= nal comment - I knew there was a sound reason I've never posted on ff.net *= grins*. ~Kei --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofosh= un@... wrote: > > Yikes. I just read my last email and it still sounds defe= nsive. I guess I > still need to work on that. > > Oshun > > > > ***= ***********Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Ty= ler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?vide= o=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1948 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57547 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 15:21:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 15:21:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.109) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 15:21:55 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 32917 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2008 15:21:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: z2gt0xYVM1me_mSs5TyIv_.QPvVwS9M.1mpNZrkrSe5iMJFrMorvYVN_fue_OOmxP9MKtepHyKMOoxX3StW4f3mxiGi1yi.gugYsQWoeCjw7BdSVDOH2ug-- X-Received: from [24.66.94.140] by web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:21:54 BST Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:21:54 +0100 (BST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <366727.32819.qm@web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=fgEAPaUj87hXNH5Cb5BhSL635fqinqbzied2vvFggFjryJGTlA X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido Sorry if this sends twice: my internet just went screwy. --- keiliss wrote: > a little late, but here's my fifty cents. I have nothing relevant to add, but I did want to say that I agree with everything you've said here and you're making vast amounts of sense. If Yahoo mail had a thumbs up emoticon, I'd put it right here. Your music analogy is the truest one to this situation I've heard so far. CGL __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1949 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2423 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 15:23:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 15:23:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.28) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 15:22:59 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so1658980ywe.1 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:22:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.12.14 with SMTP id 14mr2100555wfl.308.1213111379018; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:22:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806100822y606892ccy1abfeafbcc7d7e2c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:22:58 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_16943_12209247.1213111379024" References: <388371.94217.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6cd6313748323ced X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Declaring dislikes in profile X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=vZw5-EEIT3VWmIqmU8tP6uJ2shQ9LLzClaYuG2dzOdhc7w X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_16943_12209247.1213111379024-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1950 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12655 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 15:48:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 15:48:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 15:48:36 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 99066 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2008 15:48:35 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dsETP7cVM1mj1OWoi4f6DWe2Wf5yVheFejuhk287mtPAebhiwoeSTOoC26l.LpWpag-- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:48:35 PDT Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:48:35 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-512281523-1213112915=:76144" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <652285.76144.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=KhGNZP5njFVf5CLeI-GwkGUHIgdVzvzEwGVesoxtm8oGd_Fizg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-512281523-1213112915=:76144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've probably said way too much about this and I don't want to open a can of worms or appear defensive but I never posted on any profile that I don't like slash. Since I only write Het, people might assume I feel that way but I don't think I have ever made the proclaimation that "I hate slash" I have made comments about twincest and later regretted it because it insulted a friend and I apologized to her. But I personally don't think that saying you don't read slash is the same thing as being homophobic. Not buying Elton John music just because he's gay is homophobic. And now I'm gonna shut up, I promise lol keiliss wrote: I never add my ten cents. I just lurk and occasionally applaud Dawn or Oshun for saying it so much better than I could, but an analogy occurred to me so - a little late, but here's my fifty cents. I know of a couple who won't listen to Elton John --- because he's gay. Not because they don't like his music or his voice, not because they think he's a stupid little man with no talent, not because they prefer blue grass and jazz. Because he's gay... pity about the nice music. I can compare this to Mary Sues or any of the other maligned corners of fandom, but applied to myself, this is identical to refusing to read my novel-length fic because it's slash. Not because you don't find Gil-galad interesting, not because you don't read early second age stories, not because you prefer strong adventure/action stories, not even because you think I'm a god-awful writer --- but because it's slash. Gone. Dismissed. Only a handful of actual sex scenes, but that's not the issue. It's slash. We all have likes and dislikes, and some of us are more adventurous than others. I'll try everything at least twice to see if maybe I'll like it after all, some prefer to stay in their small comfort zone. Some people have set up their MEFA wish lists so they only read one or two genres, some of us have a little bit of everything. It's what works for you. When it doesn't work is when you tell the other person their way offends you, is not canon, should only be posted behind a bunch of warnings so it doesn't upset anyone... it's the equivalent of telling that writer to use the side entrance in future, please. Courtesy and a bit of thoughtfulness don't cost much. I have a friend who writes twincest. I don't read twincest, but why would I need to say that? Anywhere. (except here to make a point *g*) I don't read her twincest stories, but I review almost everything else she writes. I'm sure she's worked out it's not to my taste, but I don't need to hold it up like a banner and make her feel I am judging her - because it 'is' judgmental. Saying I'm not drawn to twincest is equivalent to saying her taste and writing preference and therefore her world view disgusts me. My point is, we can look at it from whatever angle we wish, the bottom line is we have no business insulting people, and what they write is not disconnected from who they are. And no, I wouldn't buy that couple Elton John's Greatest Hits. I would be sorry their close-mindedness deprives them of some lovely music though, and I would not try and hide or apologise for my liking for some of his work - I'm not the one who has a problem with it. One final comment - I knew there was a sound reason I've never posted on ff.net *grins*. ~Kei --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > Yikes. I just read my last email and it still sounds defensive. I guess I > still need to work on that. > > Oshun > > > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-512281523-1213112915=:76144 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I've probably said way too much about this and I don't want to open a can of worms or appear defensive but I never posted on any profile that I don't like slash. Since I only write Het, people might assume I feel that way but I don't think I have ever made the proclaimation that "I hate slash" I have made comments about twincest and later regretted it because it insulted a friend and I apologized to her. But I personally don't think that saying you don't read slash is the same thing as being homophobic. Not buying Elton John music just because he's gay is homophobic.  
 
And now I'm gonna shut up, I promise lol

keiliss wrote:
I never add my ten cents. I just lurk and occasionally applaud Dawn or
Oshun for saying it so much better than I could, but an analogy
occurred to me so - a little late, but here's my fifty cents.

I know of a couple who won't listen to Elton John --- because he's
gay. Not because they don't like his music or his voice, not because
they think he's a stupid little man with no talent, not because they
prefer blue grass and jazz. Because he's gay... pity about the nice
music. I can compare this to Mary Sues or any of the other maligned
corners of fandom, but applied to myself, this is identical to
refusing to read my novel-length fic because it's slash. Not because
you don't find Gil-galad interesting, not because you don't read early
second age stories, not because you prefer strong adventure/action
stories, not even because you think I'm a god-awful writer --- but
because it's slash. Gone. Dismissed. Only a handful of actual sex
scenes, but that's not the issue. It's slash.

We all have likes and dislikes, and some of us are more adventurous
than others. I'll try everything at least twice to see if maybe I'll
like it after all, some prefer to stay in their small comfort zone.
Some people have set up their MEFA wish lists so they only read one or
two genres, some of us have a little bit of everything. It's what
works for you. When it doesn't work is when you tell the other person
their way offends you, is not canon, should only be posted behind a
bunch of warnings so it doesn't upset anyone... it's the equivalent of
telling that writer to use the side entrance in future, please.

Courtesy and a bit of thoughtfulness don't cost much. I have a friend
who writes twincest. I don't read twincest, but why would I need to
say that? Anywhere. (except here to make a point *g*) I don't read her
twincest stories, but I review almost everything else she writes. I'm
sure she's worked out it's not to my taste, but I don't need to hold
it up like a banner and make her feel I am judging her - because it
'is' judgmental. Saying I'm not drawn to twincest is equivalent to
saying her taste and writing preference and therefore her world view
disgusts me. My point is, we can look at it from whatever angle we
wish, the bottom line is we have no business insulting people, and
what they write is not disconnected from who they are.

And no, I wouldn't buy that couple Elton John's Greatest Hits. I would
be sorry their close-mindedness deprives them of some lovely music
though, and I would not try and hide or apologise for my liking for
some of his work - I'm not the one who has a problem with it.

One final comment - I knew there was a sound reason I've never posted
on ff.net *grins*.

~Kei

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote:
>
> Yikes. I just read my last email and it still sounds defensive. I
guess I
> still need to work on that.
>
> Oshun
>
>
>
> **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking
with
> Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
>




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-512281523-1213112915=:76144-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1951 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57870 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 16:15:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 16:15:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 16:15:38 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c8c.21f55882 (30739) for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:15:26 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213114526" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=yAeJ1d-g9b71IcOjxAPVOBQTvC9gPwTPIAizbsnJQC_8dxDlss0U X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213114526 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/10/2008 10:15:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, scrapcat21@gmail.com writes: this is identical to refusing to read my novel-length fic because it's slash. Not because you don't find Gil-galad interesting, not because you don't read early second age stories, not because you prefer strong adventure/action stories, not even because you think I'm a god-awful writer --- but because it's slash. Gone. Dismissed. Only a handful of actual sex scenes, but that's not the issue. It's slash. But I am in the habit of recommending to people I like that they try specific stories or writers outside of their usual obsession or comfort area if I think they are really good. Usually, because I feel they transcend the genre. In the area of slash I have only pushed a few stories or authors, one of them was the novel you referred to above (Even Quicker Than Doubt). I thought it had some of the best characterization of young Elros and Elrond I had read. I've badgered people to read Dawn's Light of the Roses. One person recently read it and wrote me that she loved it and that I was free to crow and say "I told you so." (Interestingly, her reason for not reading it before had nothing to do with slash, although she rarely reads it, but because it was a Silm elf story.) The first slash writers I read were Claudio/Darth Fingon (if you want to call those stories slash), Tehta and Kenaz. I had a gold-standard introduction to the genre, who knows how I might have reacted, if I had stumbled onto some of the standard slash badfics first. My mantra has been, if you've only read the worst, don't rule it out. I recently read a few good Tolkien fics that were older but completely new to me. I met the authors in a couple of the other fandoms I have dabbled in and liked what they wrote there. When they told me they had written a lot of Tolkien fics, I was surprised that I didn't know their work. One wrote Hobbits and the other wrote mainly Dwarves, two areas where I normally do not look for stories. I tried some of their stories and I was not disappointed. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213114526 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =

In a message date= d 6/10/2008 10:15:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, scrapcat21@gmail.com writes= :
this is identical to refusing to rea= d my novel-length fic because it's slash. Not because
you don't find = Gil-galad interesting, not because you don't read early second age stori= es, not because you prefer strong adventure/action stories, not even bec= ause you think I'm a god-awful writer --- but because it's slash. Gone. = Dismissed. Only a handful of actual sex scenes, but that's not the issue= . It's slash.
But I am in the habit of recommendi= ng to people I like that they try specific stories or writers ou= tside of their usual obsession or comfort area if I think they are&nb= sp;really good. Usually, because I feel they transcend the genre. In the a= rea of slash I have only pushed a few stories or authors, one of= them was the novel you referred to above (Even Quicker Than Doubt). I thought it had some of the best characterization of young Elros and = Elrond I had read. I've badgered people to read Dawn's Light of the Ro= ses. One person recently read it and wrote me that she loved it and t= hat I was free to crow and say "I told you so." (Interestingly, her reason= for not reading it before had nothing to do with slash, although she rare= ly reads it, but because it was a Silm elf story.) The first slash wr= iters I read were Claudio/Darth Fingon (if you want to call thos= e stories slash), Tehta and Kenaz. I had a gold-standard introdu= ction to the genre, who knows how I might have reacted, if I had= stumbled onto some of the standard slash badfics first. My mantra has been= , if you've only read the worst, don't rule it out.
 =
I recently read a few good Tolkien fics that were older bu= t completely new to me. I met the authors in a couple of the other fa= ndoms I have dabbled in and liked what they wrote there. When they told me= they had written a lot of Tolkien fics, I was surprised that I didn't kno= w their work. One wrote Hobbits and the other wrote mainly Dwarves, two ar= eas where I normally do not look for stories. I tried some of their s= tories and I was not disappointed.
 



Vote for y= our city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008.
= -------------------------------1213114526-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1952 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38163 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 16:39:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 16:39:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 16:39:14 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D5EF104040 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:39:13 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:39:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:39:12 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1327577574.20080610183912@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=sJLj4yY-ejOHnsCEDlLzBGXHgAeKUCgRDQB3XPr5R1_-uLyhTFg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Keiliss, k> because it 'is' judgmental. Saying I'm not drawn to twincest is equivalent to k> saying her taste and writing preference and therefore her world view k> disgusts me. My point is, we can look at it from whatever angle we k> wish, the bottom line is we have no business insulting people, and k> what they write is not disconnected from who they are. But this way you give others no right to express who they are, too. Why X can post something which disturbs Y, but Y is not allowed to admit it? Especially if they are net acquittances? Friends? Y has got their right to say that they don't like the subject and thus will not read it. If Y reads it anyway and then leave negative comments because of the subject than it's a different thing. If I don't accept fascism I've got a right to voice it. I don't have to manifest it, but I will not hide my disapproval to make feel better someone who supports such ideas in discussion, art or fiction. I see no reason why someone else should have no right to tell others they don't read twincest, slash, BDSM or any themes disturbing them. I doubt anyone gets hurt if someone doesn't read their fiction because it is about Hobbits. Vikings. Car races. Bananas. Don't overreact because of trolls, stating opinion doesn't mean hurting others. For me it is clear that some people will have no interest in some themes and I see no reason why should they hide it. Author who writes them should have such consciousness, too. I don't encourage to give hurtful opinions and accusations, chase with these opinions, state them not being asked, opposite. But I refuse to be forced to hide my opinions just because someone might feel bad if I express them. I expect the same from others, not everyone in the world has to like me and my stuff. Judgmental? Every opinion is judgmental, it's impossible to have a neutral one - you like something, dislike or it's indifferent and indifference can be seen as positive or negative depending on a person. Usually lack of feedback is seen as negative, as we've already stated. Alassante: A> But I personally don't think that saying you A> don't read slash is the same thing as being homophobic. Not buying A> Elton John music just because he's gay is homophobic.� Fully agree with it. Put in words much better than I did. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1953 Return-Path: X-Sender: vanimore_gorthaurion@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45000 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 16:58:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 16:58:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.215) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 16:58:04 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 16:58:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 16:58:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 16:58:04 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:58:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "vanimore_gorthaurion" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=345322431; y=0q-U5UZb1CVs3htt1z6_4HBHUoGjI9fQ_pwk18ubkbHdC5KXAGbWnqP6Oe0_C1c X-Yahoo-Profile: vanimore_gorthaurion --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = The first slash stories I ever stumbled on were Esteliel's, Oshun's and Ken= az's, all of which I love and re-read. I do not tend to read PWP much, sinc= e I like plots, but saying that some-one is writing a PWP set in my AU sinc= e they wanted to, so I will read it. I remember when I got snotty and put o= n my profile on fanfiction.com that I would not read fluff or het ( althoug= h my profile is often changed ) It was a comment that a new member posted o= n a recent story. As far as I know that member never posted stories, it app= eared she was just there to say: " This makes a change to all the crappy an= gsty slash that has invaded this site. " Yes, I got mad, considering that = I write " crappy angsty slash " , but there was also a lot of superb slash = which just happened to go up within a few days, so I suppose it did look li= ke an invasion. The comment was on what I call a " white bread story ", q= uite competent, canon oriented and to me as exciting as Valium, so my react= ion was knee-jerk, but mine always are and it was about then I began to rev= iew and favorite my favorites, although they're not all slash by all means.= I certainly don't have the time to PM haters of slash or AU to harangue = them and I could not be bothered to, but after several months of listening = to a member of ff.net revile slash writers my inclination is to state that = I find anything but slash bland. It's not true of course, but her sort of a= ttitude brings out the very worse in me. I do like to read stories which = push the boundaries and deal with difficult subjects carefully, intelligent= ly and thoughtfully: rape, abuse, incest, homosexuality ( although that lat= ter is not a difficult subject in my opinion but seems to cause a flutter i= n the dovecotes of some people. ) This choice applies also to published wor= ks, I left " white bread " behind a long time ago. It is my choice, but I d= o not stand on a soap box and tell people to go and read things they might = never be ready to ingest and I don't appreciate being * told * that I am si= ck, or a horny old bag gagging for a man, using it as an aid to pleasuring = myself, or need counseling because I find slash writing by and large so mu= ch more enthralling than anything else. I will recommend stories and I will= defend myself, but my " statement " of what I would not read arose from wh= at I hateful and narrow minded bigotry which I had only just begun to run i= nto round about November time I believe. Since my finding people like Oshun= and Kenaz thrilled me so much I was horrified to find there were people so= vociferous and vicious in their attacks on slash writers. Yet they were p= eople who whined that there was no good Tolkien fanfiction. They were dismi= ssing excellent stories because they were slash. I felt as if I had st= epped back into Victorian times and - as tends to happen - I blazed up agai= nst anything these slash haters liked, which was het. I did not read it to = flame it, I simply stated that I thought it was so dull and overdone that o= nly proles would bother reading it. I needed little excuse to lash out sinc= e I do find the het genre boring now, it's a busmans holiday and I prefer m= y holidays to not include things I do every day. I do know there is good he= t out there for those who like it, better than most of the churned out bodi= ce rippers which are actually published, but if these ghastly and insulting= people liked it then I was not going to. I did not want to be lumped with = them. Of course I go off and read other things than slash, and have nominat= ed non slash stories for the MEFA's, but when I say, I don't actually go fo= r het, it is more of a case of having gorged on it guiltily since age 13 an= d being sick of it than not " trying " it, since I have, it is like eating = so much chocolate it makes you sick, or getting drunk on brandy and feeling= nauseous every time you smell it. But of course I am jaded, not a young re= ader with some morals d;-) Oshun, it is sad that you should feel defensive= about your work. ( Although I realize I do not know why, but that was just= something I picked up on ) I leaped about a foot when I found A New Day, = I had to add to the review about four times. I am mature, I have been an av= id reader for decades, and not trash, I lived with teachers, I read what wa= s around and it was not trash/romance - I had to sneak that in myself like = chocolate, and I was incredibly embarrassed if any-one found it since they = would give me these * looks *. I find your writing is addictive and many o= f my favorite authors who I correspond with at times mention your work as b= eing compulsive reading. they are mature people who likewise write superb s= tories. Write for yourself, write what your muses tell you, because you = want to tell the stories of your chosen characters, you are not being paid = for it, and other people's opinion are only that an opinion. Yours was amo= ng the excerpts I emailed my uncled who taught English at uni and had been = teaching 37 years and he was incredibly impressed. He read it as a teacher,= who used to say his greatest thrill was to find people who had talent as it= is rarer than one would imagine. He did not read as a Tolkien fan, since = he is not. That is what I wanted, a * professional * opinion to see if my i= dea of good writing matched the family's. And it would appear it does, so..= :) ( And thank goodness that he will read * anything * - I suppose a teache= r has to - he was forewarned that almost everything I sent was slash and i= t did not cause one wrinkle and he is in his mid sixties. His is one opi= nion I do absolutely trust and it was unbiased. I can understand people ele= cting not to read certain things, since that is their right, but I only dis= miss shallow, dull and unskilled writing as being unworthy of reading; ther= e is a feast of that, a famine of your kind of work > **************Vote f= or your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http:/= /citysbest.aol.com?ncid=3Daolacg00050000000102) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1954 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74603 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 17:23:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 17:23:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 17:23:52 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB7E1104008 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:23:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:23:51 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:23:51 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1979111676.20080610192351@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=W_ECxfB3TkFdE3HXKbVPlgi0NdMfKxg0n6JUFrdNeVW5kT2qzi0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> But I am in the habit of recommending to people I like that hac> they try�specific stories or writers�outside of their usual hac> obsession or comfort area if I think�they are�really good. hac> Usually, because I feel they transcend the genre. And there are people who don't read slash and are not interested in male to male relations, but will read such stories because of other values they have. I know at least two men who red one of my fav stories after recommendation. They still don't like slash, but were able to appreciate the story. Not to turn them into slash fans, but to enjoy the plot and world characterization which I find great. Other example is I've had a conversation about some Silmarillion events and promised someone to link a few chapters out of a slash story, which describe those events well without mentioning slash themes. Haven't done it in the end as we dropped the subject, but I may do it in the future. I simply feel sorry many times I encounter a great text and already know who would like it or who I would like to show it, but I already know that slash or too much violence will not let them check it. I almost wrote one day to an author to ask her to censor her own extremely violent story so it was less disturbing because I liked so much the mood she created and the way she wrote it, so it was a loss that most of people will never check it. It was too gore for me, either, but I can stand or skip disturbing themes if a story is worth it. Fortunately I never wrote to her, who knows, maybe she would feel offended by my words. It wasn't in Tolkien fandom, btw. But maybe all the authors who feel discriminated and believe their stories deserve wider audience could consider preparing such "light" versions? If you feel throttled in a corner, that is. Dawn used to post alternative AMC versions without adult themes for those who liked her story but didn't like to read mature content. IMO that was a very good idea. All depends how much you want to reach wider audience and who your target is. To me it would be useless to reach "squee" kids, but reaching mature people who just hate idea of two men kissing but will have no problem with the rest of a story might be worth it. That's the eternal dilemma - being true to yourself and starving or create something which sells. It rarely comes in one. hac> The first slash writers I hac> read�were�Claudio/Darth Fingon (if you want to call those hac> stories slash),�Tehta�and Kenaz. I stumbled on a very good stories, either, and I had no idea what slash is. But I can't say I didn't knew what I was reading as soon as the story started and two men appeared. Yet it took me a while to figure out that slash is not only name for "/" ;) Hehhe, once I linked Claudio's story to another boy because he drew Noldor that reminded me Claudio's Noldor. I've totally forgotten that it started with Fingon/Maedhros. Fortunately that guy wasn't offended and with a wink commented that it was interesting idea. (I don't think he red it.) hac> I had a gold-standard introduction to the genre, who knows how�I might have reacted, hac> if�I had stumbled onto some of the standard slash badfics first. hac> My mantra has been, if you've only read the�worst, don't rule it hac> out. The problem is when one doesn't know they've red poor stories and that this genre can look much different. The problem with slash is most that people understand it as gay sex. We need education or more adequate name for stories which aren't homoerotic PWP. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1955 Return-Path: X-Sender: vanimore_gorthaurion@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45634 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 17:55:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 17:55:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n50b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.164) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 17:55:52 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n50.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 17:55:52 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 17:55:52 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 17:55:52 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:55:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1979111676.20080610192351@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "vanimore_gorthaurion" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=345322431; y=AVbp9x2X8KT3AYTYZ4YWjTcONzNdBH7zU2k62Q1FCsR937MoJ2sAfw8Mk6g0d3A X-Yahoo-Profile: vanimore_gorthaurion Slash is much more than gay sex, all relationship stories should be more th= an the sex, Oshun's and Kenaz's certainly are, dealing with political and f= amilial elements within their societies. I personally would not write * do= wn * because I write for me, climb into a world and come out on occasion. = I was speaking to an author today on LJ and said that if some-one comments = on a story I can be likened to a mole coming out of a tunnel into strong su= nlight. If people read it and one or two enjoy it, that's grand and always = unexpected, if people don't, that was what I expected, I am mostly down my = tunnel and don't notice. I write because it I have always used writing t= o escape and continue to do so, I just happen to also love Tolkien, but I a= ctually don't care if no-one reads it. I posted it to prove to certain peop= le that I was brave enough to allow something I had written to be looked at= by ( in theory ) an audience, but I would not tailor what I wrote for any= -one unless it is something co-written which has been brainstormed, but eve= n that backfired on me. But the act of writing is what I love, after that I= just want to do more writing or reading. I would love to have the guts to = ask authors to write a certain story, ficlet, drabble etc, as a present, si= nce I adore their style and work but I never have and I would never ask t= hem to tone down their content. It is their creation and although they may = in time alter their style or tone it down themselves, I would not dream of = advising them to. Individuality is so important to me, I appreciate the dif= ferent * voices * authors bring to what they do, it's unique each time. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1956 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4449 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 18:01:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 18:01:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 18:01:16 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d38.2d58fe5e (30739) for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:01:09 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213120869" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Yt6p-tHefFUDKlOFadlKjg0UixyUODOX4Fl3OyMT8j_eBDfT6z20 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213120869 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/10/2008 12:24:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: That's the eternal dilemma - being true to yourself and starving or create something which sells. It rarely comes in one. Oh, yes. I already made that decision decades ago. Not starving, by a long shot, but financially insecure. I am beyond compromising to be popular but I am also sensitive to being discounted as part of a subset that is considered less than equal. It has occurred to me to make a list of what would make a story palatable to the largest number of people and write it just for fun. I never will, of course, because there are things I want to do that I have not done yet. The problem with slash is most that people understand it as gay sex. We need education or more adequate name for stories which aren't homoerotic PWP. I agree. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213120869 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 6/10/2008 12:24:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes:
That's the eternal dilemma - being true= to yourself and starving or create something
which sells. It rarely = comes in one.
Oh, yes. I already made that d= ecision decades ago. Not starving, by a long shot, but financially insecur= e. I am beyond compromising to be popular but I am also sensitive to being= discounted as part of a subset that is considered less than equal. I= t has occurred to me to make a list of what would make a story palatable t= o the largest number of people and write it just for fun. I never will, of= course, because there are things I want to do that I have not done y= et. 

 
=
The problem with slash is most that people understand = it as gay sex. We need
education or more adequate name for stories whic= h aren't homoerotic
PWP.
I agree.

=

Vote for your city's best dining and nig= htlife. City's Best 2008.
-------------------------------1213120869-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1957 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60638 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 18:11:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 18:11:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n41b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.155) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 18:11:12 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 18:11:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 18:11:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 18:11:12 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:11:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5-5073052718-0694007055=:5" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=um1FG8CnTxyAo725sDEGM8_VxDqFgC1v1K94i8yMoO0vui8 X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --5-5073052718-0694007055=:5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Keiliss, --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "keiliss" wrote: > > I know of a couple who won't listen to Elton John = --- because he's > gay. Not because they don't like his music or his voice,= not because > they think he's a stupid little man with no talent, not beca= use they > prefer blue grass and jazz. Because he's gay... pity about the n= ice > music. I can compare this to Mary Sues or any of the other maligned >= corners of fandom, but applied to myself, this is identical to > refusing = to read my novel-length fic because it's slash. Not because > you don't fin= d Gil-galad interesting, not because you don't read early > second age stor= ies, not because you prefer strong adventure/action > stories, not even bec= ause you think I'm a god-awful writer --- but > because it's slash. Gone. D= ismissed. Only a handful of actual sex > scenes, but that's not the issue. = It's slash. I think that's just the point for some people (again: not me!= But for some reason I feel compelled to defend people's right to choose f= or themselves). Your Elton John example, although related to the larger is= sues that some people have with homosexuality, doesn't actually hold: his = songs aren't about his sexuality (as far as I know; I'm not a huge EJ fan)= . I.e., someone who knows nothing about Elton John's (semi)private life co= uld listen to his songs and never even think about (horrors!) homosexual ac= tivity. But it's there front and center in slash. And that's why some peo= ple don't like to read it. Saying you won't listen to EJ songs because he'= s a homosexual and not because of anything objectionable in his songs is, a= s someone has pointed out, homophobic. It boils down to the difference bet= ween critiquing/rejecting the content of something and an ad hominem reject= ion of something one perceives the author to be. A better fanfic parallel = for the Elton John example would be something like someone who proclaims th= at they don't read stories written by non-native English speakers, or writt= en by underage writers, or (pick your prejudice)... --5-5073052718-0694007055=:5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Keiliss,

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "keilis= s" wrote:
>
> I know of a couple who = won't listen to Elton John --- because he's
> gay. Not because they d= on't like his music or his voice, not because
> they think he's a stu= pid little man with no talent, not because they
> prefer blue grass a= nd jazz. Because he's gay... pity about the nice
> music. I can compa= re this to Mary Sues or any of the other maligned
> corners of fandom= , but applied to myself, this is identical to
> refusing to read my n= ovel-length fic because it's slash. Not because
> you don't fi= nd Gil-galad interesting, not because you don't read early
> second a= ge stories, not because you prefer strong adventure/action
> stories,= not even because you think I'm a god-awful writer --- but
> because = it's slash. Gone. Dismissed. Only a handful of actual sex
> scenes, b= ut that's not the issue. It's slash.

I think that's just the po= int for some people (again:  not me!  But for some reason I feel = compelled to defend people's right to choose for themselves).  Your El= ton John example, although related to the larger issues that some people ha= ve with homosexuality, doesn't actually hold:  his songs aren't about = his sexuality  (as far as I know; I'm not a huge EJ fan).  I.e., = someone who knows nothing about Elton John's (semi)private life could liste= n to his songs and never even think about (horrors!) homosexual activity.&n= bsp;

But it's there front and center in slash.  And that's why= some people don't like to read it.  Saying you won't listen to EJ son= gs because he's a homosexual and not because of anything objectionab= le in his songs is, as someone has pointed out, homophobic. 
It boils down to the difference between critiquing/rejecting the c= ontent of something and an ad hominem rejection of something one percei= ves the author to be.  A better fanfic parallel for the Elton J= ohn example would be something like someone who proclaims that they don't r= ead stories written by non-native English speakers, or written by underage = writers, or (pick your prejudice)...
--5-5073052718-0694007055=:5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1958 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30586 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 18:11:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 18:11:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 18:11:16 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A55C10400C for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:11:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:11:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:11:15 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1475375920.20080610201115@tlen.pl> To: vanimore_gorthaurion In-Reply-To: References: <1979111676.20080610192351@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=2u3ldfPR3f3oSGVpOvZXacx6pLrrehXQiUkxTwI8KtLG9-iQbUU X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai vanimore_gorthaurion, v> Slash is much more than gay sex, all relationship stories should be v> more than the sex, Oshun's and Kenaz's certainly are, dealing with v> political and familial elements within their societies. I know, but general audience doesn't. v> I write because it I have always used writing to escape and continue v> to do so, I just happen to also love Tolkien, but I actually don't v> care if no-one reads it. Yet there are people who feel sorry because if that. And I feel sorry because lot of great stories and ideas will never reach more people just because of a label. Softened alternative version could help in such cases, but the same time it might turn no results, too. v> I would love to have the guts to ask authors to write a certain story, ficlet, drabble v> etc, as a present, since I adore their style and work Some offer such presents themselves :) v> but I never have and I would never ask them to tone down their content. It is v> their creation and although they may in time alter their style or tone v> it down themselves, I would not dream of advising them to. I don't treat authors and artists that fragile, especially since I've found out they are normal people like you and me, ready to talk. Though I know some people are more sensitive and don't accept any critique, I tend to respect it. Even if I can't stand why they did again something very good but ruined it in the end with this and that. But as I said I finally didn't write to her. If that was someone I know I would probably raised that topic in a private conversation. Especially since I was not thinking about me but of other people who would read the story if it wasn't that violent. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1959 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40356 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 18:22:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 18:22:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 18:22:47 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE9D10404D for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:22:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:22:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:22:45 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1848067637.20080610202245@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=EuZXL26IheFZKwVdL15uHU09aJh_KZWlzHYtbVD2HZ2OdmQglEA X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle hac> but I am also sensitive to being discounted as part of a subset that is considered less than hac> equal.� That's why we need to educate people. Find a way to teach them what hides behind the therm "slash". Or make up a better describing name, more fitting to what it really is since the original one got negative meaning. hac> It has occurred to me to make a list of what would make a hac> story palatable to the largest number of people and write it hac> just for fun. I never will, of course, because there are things hac> I want to do that I have not done�yet.� Same here - people at art forums searched what is most popular in art communities and put these subjects together and made experiment posting works with these elements to see if it's catching more. It did, a bit. I wanted to do that, too, but I have way to many ideas of what I want to paint to waste my time on a winged vampire with cute boobs ;) A handsome vampire would be entertaining, though. Maybe later. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1960 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92179 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 18:27:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 18:27:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 18:27:08 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d4f.2c1cbc0a (30739) for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:27:01 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213122421" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=MtPedoFjwVf547FC6LCCTjAjzX9vJsPHJdvNwjrEVF1dWhnIDFID X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213122421 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/10/2008 1:23:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: want to paint to waste my time on a winged vampire with cute boobs I wrote a short Arwen's first kiss as a gag that was a one-hit wonder on HASA for a while. Discouraging. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213122421 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/10/2008 1:23:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl write= s:
want to paint to waste my time on a wi= nged vampire with cute boobs
I= wrote a short Arwen's first kiss as a gag that was a one-hit wonder on HA= SA for a while. Discouraging.



Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008.
-------------------------------1213122421-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1961 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92690 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 18:27:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 18:27:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n53a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.147) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 18:27:17 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n53.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 18:27:17 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 18:27:17 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 18:27:17 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:27:16 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1979111676.20080610192351@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=mgZGbiujkS2aPy-49OjdqneFCZH3nO9Z-0Mz0w67sSVdXfc X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > The problem with slash is most that people understand it as gay sex= . We need > education or more adequate name for stories which aren't homoer= otic > PWP. > Wow, I think this is a very good point, one of the most imp= ortant that has come up in this discussion! Seems to me that a story summa= ry & character list provides the basic info about who the main actors will = be (obviously in stories with lots of characters, many of them minor, that = might be more vague). Sexually explicit stuff seems to be what some people= are worried about, and what people are trying to accommodate with the labe= ling system. No? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1962 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86227 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 18:33:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 18:33:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 18:33:02 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.ce4.341814cf (30739) for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:32:56 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213122776" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=7HV1unZEgIneBZTD6ybMxWb8Zhf942nNjdD1jAtR9ZQoaX-TYDis X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213122776 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/10/2008 1:27:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gwidhiel@yahoo.com writes: Sexually explicit stuff seems to be what some people are worried about, and what people are trying to accommodate with the labeling system. No? Yes and no. People are willing to read and write het fics that are very explicit--excessive bodily fluids, the whole nine yards, who freak out at the thought of a carefully written, plot and character heavy slash fic with little to nothing graphic. It is also pretty hard and sounds arrogant to write a summary that says: My story is not a PWP slash. It is serious and funny and has lots of canon and all kinds of other high-faluting stuff in it. I also check my grammar. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213122776 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/10/2008 1:27:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gwidhiel@yahoo.com wri= tes:
Sexually explicit stuff seems to b= e what some people are worried
about, and what people are trying to a= ccommodate with the labeling system.

No?
=
Yes and no. People are willing to read and write he= t fics that are very explicit--excessive bodily fluids, the whole nine yar= ds, who freak out at the thought of a carefully written, plot and characte= r heavy slash fic with little to nothing graphic.
 
=
It is also pretty hard and sounds arrogant to write a summary that say= s: My story is not a PWP slash. It is serious and funny and has l= ots of canon and all kinds of other high-faluting stuff in it.  I als= o check my grammar.
 
 


Vote for your city's best dining and night= life. City's Best 2008.
-------------------------------1213122776-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1963 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96480 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 18:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 18:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.114) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 18:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 18:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 18:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 18:45:51 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:45:51 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=7LwogbFhZEaoqUNoa_DUZJSjaFWDSBScx1V5VEaQMXCAIvc X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > It is also pretty hard and sounds arrogant to write a summary that says:= My > story is not a PWP slash. It is serious and funny and has lots of = canon and > all kinds of other high-faluting stuff in it. I also check my= grammar. > Hee hee, I'd like to see people write those kind of justifi= cation summaries ... like scientific paper abstracts! Kidding, kidding ...= no one would publish anything! But seriously, wouldn't a relatively easy= solution be to devise a Sexual Content scale, wherein a G would be possibl= e allusions or references to a romantic pairing between any 2 characters, = perhaps a smooch, but nothing a 4 year old couldn't see, PG might show a bi= t of kissing, PG-13 ... etc. Like the movies. Then a PG or even PG-13 sla= sh story might find itself not being eschewed by as many people as it would= have been if it was just labeled "slash?" And likewise with "het." Some = people will avoid the R stuff altogether, regardless of the sexual pairings= . Just one idea, probably there are neater solutions. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1964 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96722 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 18:52:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 18:52:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 18:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cd4.2f9425d4 (30739) for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:52:34 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213123954" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=NxTL67r5C3xzjLmLeHpakqU_aQ_S8mJerYnaKm1foIoQyga2kChR X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213123954 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/10/2008 1:46:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, gwidhiel@yahoo.com writes: But seriously, wouldn't a relatively easy solution be to devise a Sexual Content scale, wherein a G would be possible allusions or references to a romantic pairing between any 2 characters, perhaps a smooch, but nothing a 4 year old couldn't see, PG might show a bit of kissing, PG-13 ... etc. Like the movies. Then a PG or even PG-13 slash story might find itself not being eschewed by as many people as it would have been if it was just labeled "slash?" And likewise with "het." Some people will avoid the R stuff altogether, regardless of the sexual pairings. But that is exactly what exists, except in the case of a male/male pairing one is encouraged, if not required, to state that, in addtion to being G or PG-13, it is slash or implied slash or in some of my fics foreshadowed slash. I would also have a harder time re-writing my stories without the love scenes, because, although they often not very graphic, if at all, they usually contain a lot of dialogue and push the plot forward. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213123954 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/10/2008 1:46:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, gwidhiel@yahoo.com wri= tes:
But seriously, wouldn't a relative= ly easy solution be to devise a
Sexual Content scale, wherein a G wou= ld be possible allusions or
references to a romantic pairing between = any 2 characters, perhaps a
smooch, but nothing a 4 year old couldn't= see, PG might show a bit of
kissing, PG-13 ... etc. Like the movies.= Then a PG or even PG-13
slash story might find itself not being esch= ewed by as many people as
it would have been if it was just labeled "= slash?" And likewise with
"het." Some people will avoid the R stuff a= ltogether, regardless of
the sexual pairings.

But that is exactly what exists, except in t= he case of a male/male pairing one is encouraged, if not required, to stat= e that, in addtion to being G or PG-13, it is slash or implied slash or in= some of my fics foreshadowed slash.
 
I would = also have a harder time re-writing my stories without the love scenes, bec= ause, although they often not very graphic, if at all, they usually c= ontain a lot of dialogue and push the plot forward.


Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife= . Ci= ty's Best 2008.
-------------------------------1213123954-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1965 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65952 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 19:09:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 19:09:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n53a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.147) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 19:09:35 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n53.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:09:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:09:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:09:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:09:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="7-3789062949-8071742185=:9" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=PHvqhk8IvqsHMk5_0EBfavKa1YQXdJJZhZxf8PDynqfSRsFGqlwWX4gB X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --7-3789062949-8071742185=:9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > Yes and no. People are willing to read and write het fics that are very= > explicit--excessive bodily fluids, the whole nine yards, who freak out a= t the > thought of a carefully written, plot and character heavy slash fic = with little > to nothing graphic. Speaking for myself, I am quite happy to= read gay, lesbian, heterosexual, bestial or even objectophilic (heh -- now= there's a challenge [;)] ) fics as long as "carefully written, plot and c= haracter heavy" apply. Although I do appreciate the need for "advisories" = and "warnings," my limited observations are that they can get out-of-hand = in fan fiction, but I wonder if this isn't a factor of other social pressur= es at work? There's a page in the massive food & drug law text book which = I should be reading with an excerpt from Peter Carlson's Hey, Don't Say Th= ey Didn't Warn You (Washington Post, Sept. 01, 2006). Carlson notes that= we live in the Golden Age of the Warning Label. Terrified of litigation, = businesses slapped all manner of warnings of products, which has resulted i= n a glut of warnings, some of which are blindingly obvious. For example: "C= aution: coffee is hot" or (one of my favorites) for Lunesta, a sleeping pil= l - "May cause drowsiness." This kind of granularity of "warnings" in our= society appears to have sloshed over into the world o' fan fic. And to th= is I say, caveat lector (reader beware). Readers must take responsibility = for what they read. > > It is also pretty hard and sounds arrogant to write= a summary that says: My > story is not a PWP slash. It is serious and fun= ny and has lots of canon and > all kinds of other high-faluting stuff in i= t. I also check my grammar. > Ha! Well, I'm still lobbying the SWG site= owner to add "Heresy" to the warning categories. I also think "Skepticism= " and "Moral Relativism" should be added, too, just to cover the bases. As= far as arrogance is concerned, I'm thinking that "Warning! You must pass = this IQ test before reading this" might be beyond the pale. [;)] ^nth po= wer, that is to say, Warning - do not take me seriously! --7-3789062949-8071742185=:9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote:>
>
> Yes and no. People are willing to read and write het= fics that are very 
> explicit--excessive bodily fluids, the w= hole nine yards, who freak out at the 
> thought of a carefully= written, plot and character heavy slash fic with little 
> to = nothing graphic.

Speaking for myself, I am quite happy to read gay, = lesbian, heterosexual, bestial or even objectophilic (heh -- now there's a = challenge 3D";)") fics as long as "carefully wr= itten, plot and character heavy" apply. 

Although I do appreci= ate the need for "advisories" and "warnings,"  my limited observations= are that they can get out-of-hand in fan fiction, but I wonder if this isn= 't a factor of other social pressures at work?  There's a page in the = massive food & drug law text book which I should be reading with= an excerpt from Peter Carlson's  Hey, Don't Say They Didn't Warn Y= ou (Washington Post,  Sept.  01, 2006).  Carlson notes t= hat we live in the Golden Age of the Warning Label.  Terrified of liti= gation, businesses slapped all manner of warnings of products, which has re= sulted in a glut of warnings, some of which are blindingly obvious. For exa= mple: "Caution: coffee is hot" or (one of my favorites) for Lunesta, a slee= ping pill - "May cause drowsiness."   This kind of granularity of= "warnings" in our society appears to have sloshed over into the world o' f= an fic.  And to this I say, caveat lector (reader beware). = ; Readers must take responsibility for what they read. 
> =
> It is also pretty hard and sounds arrogant to write a summary tha= t says:  My
> story is not a PWP slash. It is serious and funny= and has lots of  canon and
> all kinds of other high-faluting = stuff in it.  I also check my  grammar.
> 

Ha!=   Well, I'm still lobbying the SWG site owner to add "Heresy" to the w= arning categories.  I also think "Skepticism" and "Moral Relativism" s= hould be added, too, just to cover the bases.  As far as arrogance is = concerned, I'm thinking that "Warning!  You must pass this IQ test bef= ore reading this" might be beyond the pale.  3D";)" ^nth power, that is to say, Warning - do not take me seriously! --7-3789062949-8071742185=:9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1966 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66088 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 19:11:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 19:11:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n31a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.208) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 19:11:03 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n31.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:11:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:11:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:11:02 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:11:01 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=tbBZKMGVfk-X9VJzIcWXtntGHKd6My-IS8xklHwB13Iw40A X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > But that is exactly what exists, except in the case of a male/male pair= ing > one is encouraged, if not required, to state that, in addtion to bei= ng G or > PG-13, it is slash or implied slash or in some of my fics fores= hadowed slash. > > I would also have a harder time re-writing my stories= without the love > scenes, because, although they often not very graphic= , if at all, they usually > contain a lot of dialogue and push the plot = forward. > And why should you omit them? If you have a smaller but appr= eciative audience for your stories, c'est la vie -- no? I guess it just bo= ils down to what I think we've already concluded: some people are more far= -ranging in their reading preferences than others. It's hard to be in a mi= nority (I frequently am), but that's the way it is sometimes. Although you'= ve invested more of your time and energy in writing fanfic stories than I h= ave, Oshun, I do appreciate how much it sucks to feel marginalized because = people have made up their minds before even hearing you out. That can happe= n in any endeavor. Educating the wider readership about inappropriate bl= anket dismissals of slash as PWP or whatever seems like it would be a futil= e undertaking. We have to trust/allow people to make up their own minds ab= out what they're willing to try. I think that's the only way it works. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1967 Return-Path: X-Sender: vanimore_gorthaurion@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56179 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 19:18:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 19:18:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n33b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.215) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 19:18:59 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n33.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:18:59 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:18:59 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:18:59 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:18:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "vanimore_gorthaurion" Subject: New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=345322431; y=YCPWqHsqgev8eI7KmTxr88wt9UzMLeOr-47apclA1qn4pHGtngRgjTkN6daXAHM X-Yahoo-Profile: vanimore_gorthaurion I have noticed that with your stories, I do not think they're very graphic = but without that intimacy - which often encourages people to speak and rela= tionships rarely flourish without it - they would not have the dynamism bet= ween the characters. > **************Vote for your city's best dining an= d nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=3Daol= acg00050000000102) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1968 Return-Path: X-Sender: vanimore_gorthaurion@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64579 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 19:31:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 19:31:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.130) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 19:31:08 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:31:08 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:31:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 19:31:08 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:31:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "vanimore_gorthaurion" Subject: New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=345322431; y=MjZfWDaZsORiwWbUjKZviJLElAI-rO3m1j7IEkyViq2iITElf3k7JJnJrHoDekA X-Yahoo-Profile: vanimore_gorthaurion The Nanny State, we call it, goodness knows how any-one ever survived befor= e we were all so coddled. There were books I was given in school ( by the t= eacher ) age 14 to read dealing with masturbation and underage sex, explici= tly. Apparently they are not in the curriculum any more. I'm quite happy = to stick every warning out there on my fics, at the end of the day, some pe= ople will not read a PG13 with implied slash, and some 13 year olds will re= ad explicit NC17, I know because one reads mine on fanfiction.com and the a= dmin had to warn that if minors were found to be reading NC17 their account= s would be suspended. That is just covering their bases of course, since it= is incredibly hard to police the internet, but I'll happily do my bit to w= arn of every-one in sight, if it allows me the freedom to post what I want.= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1969 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11513 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 19:39:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 19:39:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.154) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 19:39:42 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so1421727ywm.32 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:39:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.143.17.13 with SMTP id u13mr2239671wfi.18.1213126782201; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:39:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:39:42 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_14152_3018931.1213126782241" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=DN0F8Lh49w_z44wCEwMW9UWr_YJ6T24SxDEGTymZ3PpEIyzQ_3gf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_14152_3018931.1213126782241-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1970 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92226 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 19:53:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 19:53:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 19:53:05 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d01.31c52972 (37543) for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:52:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-md16 (webmail-md16.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.134]) by cia-mb02.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB024-92a7484edb891b9; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:52:42 -0400 References: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:52:42 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA994AADC3E17A_BDC_4415_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37080-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.134) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:52:42 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA994AADAE6C23-BDC-2219@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=9KQcMbDpZllOfwHYlKqaZFZ7a5FKMGfBv1CffVzUfzEubho0TgJl X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA994AADC3E17A_BDC_4415_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've raised a lot of questions, but the one that bothered me most recently was whether or not to put a slash warning on a story which would be at most I think a teen (coarse language Ardarized--duck tomatoes from any (unlikely here) who would consider it a canon no-no in a humorous story). In no way is it a slash story, but it has a wink-wink reference probably visible only to the?initiated?of a future pairing. -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 3:39 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... Wow, my Internet goes down for six hours and look what happens ... ;) ? I'm going to put on my owner/mod hat for a moment. :) ? Regarding warnings and the definition of (and stigma associated with) the term slash, this is something that my co-mods and I are discussing right now, largely because of this conversation. I have spoken to a few people privately to ask how they feel about certain things, but since this list was intended, in part, as a place for non-moderators to make suggestions and help us make decisions, then I want to open the discussion to everyone. ? Currently, on the archive, we have the following sex-related warnings available. We leave it up to our authors which they choose; we only ask that for ratings higher than General then an author choose something that explains to potential readers why they have chosen the rating that they did. ? Sexual Content--Mild Sexual Content Sexual Content--Graphic Sexual Content--Heterosexual/Het Sexual Content--Homosexual/Slash ? This may seem unnecessarily complicated but, as Gwidhiel pointed out, there are degrees of explicitness that might influence whether a reader picks up a story or not, and we wanted to help authors represent this, if they chose to do so. For example, a slash story where Maedhros kisses Fingon is a very different can of worms for many people than a graphic BDSM story. ? However, this does not address how to handle stories where a character "just happens to be gay" but there is actually no sexual content. Such stories do exist, and I feel the authors' pain in not wanting to see them labeled as having sexual content, or even as slash. Slash is also, as Sirielle pointed out, evocative for many people of graphic PWP, not the kinds of stories that explore the political, social, and familial relationships through the lens of a character who is homosexual and that don't necessarily intend to be prurient. So we've been trying to come up with a better, less rigid way of doing things to accomodate the variety of fiction that we tend to see on our archive. ? So if anyone has any ideas or suggestions, feel free to bring them up. If you don't want to throw them out into public, then you're welcome to contact me privately at this address or at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and I will see that your ideas are brought up and discussed with my co-mods. ? If you've made suggestions to me already, we're already discussing them, so there's no need to repeat yourself unless you'd like to open your ideas to group discussion. :) ? FYI, more information on the current incarnation of our rating/warning system can be found here: ? http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/ratings.php ? And, who knows, once we slim down the warning list a bit, maybe we'll have room for Heresy ... ;) ? Dawn ? -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ----------MB_8CA994AADC3E17A_BDC_4415_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I've raised a lot of questions, but the one that bothered me most recently was whether or not to put a slash warning on a story which would be at most I think a teen (coarse language Ardarized--duck tomatoes from any (unlikely here) who would consider it a canon no-no in a humorous story). In no way is it a slash story, but it has a wink-wink reference probably visible only to the initiated of a future pairing.


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 3:39 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a...

Wow, my Internet goes down for six hours and look what happens ... ;)
 
I'm going to put on my owner/mod hat for a moment. :)
 
Regarding warnings and the definition of (and stigma associated with) the term slash, this is something that my co-mods and I are discussing right now, largely because of this conversation. I have spoken to a few people privately to ask how they feel about certain things, but since this list was intended, in part, as a place for non-moderators to make suggestions and help us make decisions, then I want to open the discussion to everyone.
 
Currently, on the archive, we have the following sex-related warnings available. We leave it up to our authors which they choose; we only ask that for ratings higher than General then an author choose something that explains to potential readers why they have chosen the rating that they did.
 
Sexual Content--Mild
Sexual Content
Sexual Content--Graphic
Sexual Content--Heterosexual/Het
Sexual Content--Homosexual/Slash
 
This may seem unnecessarily complicated but, as Gwidhiel pointed out, there are degrees of explicitness that might influence whether a reader picks up a story or not, and we wanted to help authors represent this, if they chose to do so. For example, a slash story where Maedhros kisses Fingon is a very different can of worms for many people than a graphic BDSM story.
 
However, this does not address how to handle stories where a character "just happens to be gay" but there is actually no sexual content. Such stories do exist, and I feel the authors' pain in not wanting to see them labeled as having sexual content, or even as slash. Slash is also, as Sirielle pointed out, evocative for many people of graphic PWP, not the kinds of stories that explore the political, social, and familial relationships through the lens of a character who is homosexual and that don't necessarily intend to be prurient. So we've been trying to come up with a better, less rigid way of doing things to accomodate the variety of fiction that we tend to see on our archive.
 
So if anyone has any ideas or suggestions, feel free to bring them up. If you don't want to throw them out into public, then you're welcome to contact me privately at this address or at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and I will see that your ideas are brought up and discussed with my co-mods.
 
If you've made suggestions to me already, we're already discussing them, so there's no need to repeat yourself unless you'd like to open your ideas to group discussion. :)
 
FYI, more information on the current incarnation of our rating/warning system can be found here:
 
 
And, who knows, once we slim down the warning list a bit, maybe we'll have room for Heresy ... ;)
 
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
----------MB_8CA994AADC3E17A_BDC_4415_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1971 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrapcat21@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31659 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 20:45:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 20:45:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n3.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.130) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 20:45:46 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.90] by n3.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 20:45:45 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 20:45:45 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 20:45:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:45:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1327577574.20080610183912@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "keiliss" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=238321209; y=a_ZY7fDuQATgJfqFIA7MrL5n7NnKr8lq4qNkNIu-k-AY0zrhVg X-Yahoo-Profile: keiliss Sirielle, I liked your thoughts on freedom of expression. I think it's the= 'way' things are said that matters? A discussion like this is very differe= nt to prefacing an unrelated argument with something like "I will read anyt= hing - except slash of course...", which dismisses as a collective all slas= h writers. Commenting on a fic with the words "Of course, I don't read slas= h so I won't read later chapters" is confrontational and hurtful to the wri= ter (I have seen this) My objection is to the situations where a person's d= islike for slash, Mary Sues, dwarves (why would anyone dislike dwarves??) i= s not pertinent to the discussion, but they feel compelled to make sure you= know how much they hate it anyway. It's context, I think, not the words th= emselves. We all have a right to our opinions, but should give thought to w= here and how we express them. There is a point where words stop being opini= ons and become weapons. Does that make sense? Hope so, because it took me a= n hour to work this out, lol. The idea of writing a softer version of a st= ory for other audiences has one problem for me - and I can only answer for = the way I write, of course. I write relationships, so taking the occasional= sex scene out of a story would not remove the slash element. Also, sex is = a way to illustrate aspects of a relationship, so depth would go with the c= ut. I think most people not involved in writing PWPs would say the same? >= The problem with slash is most that people understand it as gay sex. We nee= d education or more adequate name for stories which aren't homoerotic PWP.<= I think in many ways slash is segregated, and when you set something apar= t, it draws attention to it. If my character list says Glorfindel/OMC, but = the rating is teen, you can be assured you will find nothing graphically se= xual. But people are conditioned to not look past the word 'slash' in the w= arning list, and many think 'slash' and 'badly written PWP' are interchange= able. All slash fics risk being tarred with the 'Glorfindel/Erestor, mpreg,= NC-17, AU, unbetad but hey I had fun writing it' brush. I think that is wh= at, as someone who writes slash, annoys me most --- I do not assume all het= is the same, nor do I assume all stories about hobbits are the same just b= ecause I write and prefer reading elves. It's all a matter of respect? = --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wr= ote: > > Ai Keiliss, > > > But this way you give others no right to expres= s who they are, too. > Why X can post something which disturbs Y, but Y is = not allowed to admit > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1972 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56666 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 20:52:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 20:52:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 20:52:16 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40AB710400E for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:52:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:52:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:52:14 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <817466643.20080610225214@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: <8CA994AADAE6C23-BDC-2219@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA994AADAE6C23-BDC-2219@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=5uYsaciwYS7ti8_xNv2c_YOiR_rAcNZ4ap31lqytgK08YOqjsqw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Oshun: hac> I've raised a lot of questions, but the one that bothered hac> me most recently was whether or not to put a slash warning on a hac> story which would be at most I think a teen (coarse language hac> Ardarized--duck tomatoes from any (unlikely here) who would hac> consider it a canon no-no in a humorous story). In no way is it a hac> slash story, but it has a wink-wink reference probably visible hac> only to the�initiated�of a future pairing. I would not label it slash, unless the relation and characters intentions were clear. But if it's only wink-wink reference, then it's open for interpretation and reader will understand it the way they like. Dawn: hac> Currently, on the archive, we have the following hac> sex-related warnings available. We leave it up to our authors hac> which they choose; we only ask that for ratings higher than hac> General then an author choose something that explains to hac> potential readers why they have chosen the rating that they did. hac> � hac> Sexual Content--Mild hac> Sexual Content hac> Sexual Content--Graphic hac> Sexual Content--Heterosexual/Het hac> Sexual Content--Homosexual/Slash That sounds good, I expect author can choose a few variants if apply? For comparison a mature filter at dA works this way - I'll copy and paste: "Contains mature content (?) Yes [strict] Yes [warning] No + Nudity Sexual Themes Violence/Gore Strong Language Ideologically Sensitive" Help section explanation: "Mature Content is imagery or writing that contains nudity, sexual themes, violence/gore, strong language or ideologically sensitive subject matter. Warning Levels You may choose a strict or warning level of Mature Content flag. Strict-Anyone under 18 will not be able to view your work. Use this if you do not feel comfortable with your subject matter being viewed by all ages. Keep in mind this does not mean you are allowed to post obscene material. The posting of pornographic materials is strictly forbidden. Warning Choosing warning will mark that your work contains Mature Content but will leave the option to see it in the viewers hands. Optionally, you may choose to mark your work as containing any of the following terms; nudity, sexual themes, violence/gore, strong language or ideologically sensitive. These will be visible on the thumbnail, giving users a better idea of what the work contains." Nothing on sexual orientation of characters. I guess this is fan fiction specific as fannish stories tell of such relations in worlds where they do not exist or were never described. Probably authors put an extra warning in descriptions, I haven't checked. But saw yaoi warning many times under images, so it must be the same with prose. hac> stories that explore the political, social, and familial hac> relationships through the lens of a character who is homosexual hac> and that don't necessarily intend to be prurient. I would say it is not slash if that was original fiction. Here the problem is that for many people slash is AU concept. It doesn't matter now if it is or not, but how to handle this best. If author skips label slash they will be accused of not labeling it because it pictures homosexual character who wasn't gay in the books. But the same time the story doesn't focus on a relation, so IMO can't be called slash. Maybe additional info on "exploring view on sexual minorities in heterosexual society"? Sounds a bit "square", but the same time implies that it's scientific approach. And no one can say they weren't warned. Just an idea, not perfect but fair to the story. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1973 Return-Path: X-Sender: vanimore_gorthaurion@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2556 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 21:11:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 21:11:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n48d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.174) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 21:11:32 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n48.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 21:11:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 21:11:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 21:11:29 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:11:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "vanimore_gorthaurion" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=345322431; y=roQAMOrOowOLfcvoWbKBZvQeUuu4T538fyzV9VLrjdeAcLWGv5PwaCOpow7KmP4 X-Yahoo-Profile: vanimore_gorthaurion Where did the term Slash originate anyway? When I first had the idea for= my first story, I knew it was going to be what I called Male Romance situa= tion. ( Or that was the angle, any love/sex was going to be Male with Male,= anyway ) I had never read any fanfic thus I did not know what slash was un= til I read it as a warning and after I had read the story went and looked a= t the FAQ. I guessed it was M/M because the pairing somewhat gave it away, = but I wish there was a better term for situations where the relationships i= nvolve two males rather than slash, I still call it Male Romance in my mind= . I would hate to see my favorite slash stories catering for the mainstre= am. Mainstream bestseller books usually cater for the dumbest common denomi= nator and are books people can take on holiday, so my opinion of popular ma= instream LOTR fanfic is not high either. Stories that appeal to 13 year= olds and some-one like me are - Lord of the Rings - and that is it I shoul= d think. I love to see the character dynamics between adults and in an adul= t relationship, whether het or slash, sex exists, or it should, and that is= what I want to read, something well rounded which handles all aspects of l= iving an adult life, grief, guilt, hate, bereavement, love and sex. all par= t of being an adult ( Elf or Mortal ) Is it fair to expect authors writing = about adults to cater for kids and people who are phobic or squeamish about= the facts of adult life? There is a glut of fluff out there, and fluff do= es actually * squick * me worse than anything. I hope no-one I love as an a= uthor adds to it. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1974 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40008 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 21:21:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 21:21:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 21:21:29 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d61.2dbf657f (37128) for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:21:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-md16 (webmail-md16.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.134]) by cia-ma02.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA022-9108484ef0542ad; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:21:24 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:21:25 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA9957128E8621_560_697_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37080-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.134) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:21:25 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA995712829A46-560-34B@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=S8di7Rr_jIFCRZxAEeezCxrG6ql5Sc7LoJDhSUjocNPNZLWwvu16 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA9957128E8621_560_697_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I hope no-one I love as an author adds to it. I know a writer who does great fluff (not my favorite genre either). But there is always an exception. -----Original Message----- From: vanimore_gorthaurion To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 5:11 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... Where did the term Slash originate anyway? When I first had the idea for my first story, I knew it was going to be what I called Male Romance situation. ( Or that was the angle, any love/sex was going to be Male with Male, anyway ) I had never read any fanfic thus I did not know what slash was until I read it as a warning and after I had read the story went and looked at the FAQ. I guessed it was M/M because the pairing somewhat gave it away, but I wish there was a better term for situations where the relationships involve two males rather than slash, I still call it Male Romance in my mind. I would hate to see my favorite slash stories catering for the mainstream. Mainstream bestseller books usually cater for the dumbest common denominator and are books people can take on holiday, so my opinion of popular mainstream LOTR fanfic is not high either. Stories that appeal to 13 year olds and some-one like me are - Lord of the Rings - and that is it I should think. I love to see the character dynamics between adults and in an adult relationship, whether het or slash, sex exists, or it should, and that is what I want to read, something well rounded which handles all aspects of living an adult life, grief, guilt, hate, bereavement, love and sex. all part of being an adult ( Elf or Mortal ) Is it fair to expect authors writing about adults to cater for kids and people who are phobic or squeamish about the facts of adult life? There is a glut of fluff out there, and fluff does actually * squick * me worse than anything. I hope no-one I love as an author adds to it. ----------MB_8CA9957128E8621_560_697_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I hope no-one I love as an author adds to it.

I know a writer who does great fluff (not my favorite genre either). But there is always an exception.


-----Original Message-----
From: vanimore_gorthaurion
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 5:11 pm
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven...

Where did the term Slash originate anyway?

When I first had the idea for my first story, I knew it was going to
be what I called Male Romance situation. ( Or that was the angle, any
love/sex was going to be Male with Male, anyway ) I had never read any
fanfic thus I did not know what slash was until I read it as a warning
and after I had read the story went and looked at the FAQ. I guessed
it was M/M because the pairing somewhat gave it away, but I wish there
was a better term for situations where the relationships involve two
males rather than slash, I still call it Male Romance in my mind.

I would hate to see my favorite slash stories catering for the
mainstream. Mainstream bestseller books usually cater for the dumbest
common denominator and are books people can take on holiday, so my
opinion of popular mainstream LOTR fanfic is not high either.

Stories that appeal to 13 year olds and some-one like me are - Lord
of the Rings - and that is it I should think. I love to see the
character dynamics between adults and in an adult relationship,
whether het or slash, sex exists, or it should, and that is what I
want to read, something well rounded which handles all aspects of
living an adult life, grief, guilt, hate, bereavement, love and sex.
all part of being an adult ( Elf or Mortal ) Is it fair to expect
authors writing about adults to cater for kids and people who are
phobic or squeamish about the facts of adult life?
There is a glut of fluff out there, and fluff does actually * squick *
me worse than anything. I hope no-one I love as an author adds to it.

----------MB_8CA9957128E8621_560_697_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1975 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrapcat21@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31657 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 21:26:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 21:26:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.131) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 21:26:58 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 21:26:57 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 21:26:57 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 21:26:57 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:26:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "keiliss" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=238321209; y=YOnWa1XKadZ0vLt3MoTrVIcNIo3IGAiVRpPdG2ggfDx7n7jKVA X-Yahoo-Profile: keiliss Male Romance. Oh I love that, what a perfect description. And I agree - if = the header says Maglor/Daeron or Feanor/Nerdanel, the reader can pretty muc= h work it out from there. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com= , "vanimore_gorthaurion" wrote: > > Where did th= e term Slash originate anyway? > > When I first had the idea for my firs= t story, I knew it was going to > be what I called Male Romance situation. = ( Or that was the angle, any > love/sex was going to be Male with Male, any= way ) I had never read any > fanfic thus I did not know what slash was unti= l I read it as a warning > and after I had read the story went and looked a= t the FAQ. I guessed > it was M/M because the pairing somewhat gave it away= , but I wish there > was a better term for situations where the relationshi= ps involve two > males rather than slash, I still call it Male Romance in m= y mind. > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1976 Return-Path: X-Sender: huffman.becky@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47071 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 21:48:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 21:48:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.171) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 21:48:15 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 26so2958665wfd.32 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:48:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.231.7 with SMTP id d7mr2266740wfh.264.1213134495371; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:48:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.112.16 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c715e1e0806101448gbd7c7f5ie3720c2c05330035@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:48:15 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21095_26231674.1213134495365" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2936140dc0a9566c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=FAlriel_of_Menegroth_?=" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=313054080; y=GVeQb8Q9erTGI8lVX9G6pdJ2nTkC7mTJzJmz6uP-kWRUGg X-Yahoo-Profile: sulriel ------=_Part_21095_26231674.1213134495365-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1977 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55169 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 22:07:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 22:07:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 22:07:16 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bd7.32770ddf (37556) for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:07:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-md16 (webmail-md16.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.134]) by cia-mb03.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB035-92b4484efb0e55; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:07:10 -0400 References: <3c715e1e0806101448gbd7c7f5ie3720c2c05330035@mail.gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:07:11 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: <3c715e1e0806101448gbd7c7f5ie3720c2c05330035@mail.gmail.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA995D7757E542_560_C99_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37080-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.134) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:07:11 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA995D77426FEB-560-663@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=61pvBf567bpcLsv_fna_xUe0fDRc53XkaN3cGEIKa2y5U6d4dybO X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA995D7757E542_560_C99_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have to say that given the popularity of "erotica" and the ever more cr= ass PWP, both Het and Slash, I find it somewhat amusing to think that peopl= e need to be educated in order to appreciate it. ;) I'm not sure that is = true. I have not found an increase of=C2=A0extreme PWPs, but rather a decli= ne. But maybe that is because I know where to look (and not to look). If we= were talking Harry Potter that might be true. But then again I don't know = a lot about that fandom either. -----Original Message----- From: S=C3=BA= lriel of Menegroth To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogr= oups.com Sent: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 5:48 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGu= ild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a... >>>Educating= the wider readership about inappropriate blanket dismissals of slash as P= WP or whatever seems like it would be a futile undertaking. =C2=A0We have = to trust/allow people to make up their own minds about what they're willin= g to try. =C2=A0I think that's the only way it works. =C2=A0 I have to = say that given the popularity of "erotica" and the ever more crass PWP, bot= h Het and Slash, I find it somewhat amusing to think that people need to be= educated in order to appreciate it. ;) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Tue, = Jun 10, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > = =C2=A0 > Sexual Content--Mild > Sexual Content > Sexual Content--Graphic= > Sexual Content--Heterosexual/Het > Sexual Content--Homosexual/Slash = =C2=A0 I like this suggestion, but how about like this: =C2=A0=C2=A0 > = Sexual Content--Mild > Sexual Content > Sexual Content--Graphic >>(and a= dded) a space for pairings: ____________ =C2=A0 > out, evocative for many= people of graphic PWP, not the kinds of stories that > explore the politi= cal, social, and familial relationships through the lens > of a character = who is homosexual and that don't necessarily intend to be > prurient. = =C2=A0 I feel this should be apparent from the summary. =C2=A0 ...a= nd I had to go check my summary: =C2=A0 Prey for the Hunter by Sulriel= Rated: Teens Summary: A tale of loss and love in the wilds of Beleriand= Characters: Amras, Amrod, Original Characters Genres: Horror, Romance W= arnings: Character Death, Mature Themes, Sexual Content--Mild, Violence = =C2=A0 I think the only thing I would change would be to have the option o= f OMCs and OFCs in addition to the more general OCs.=C2=A0 If could list a = pairing Amrod/OFC would give people an idea of the mild sexual content. = =C2=A0 I wonder if the people who have read this felt the summary and warn= ings accurately set their expectations for the story....=C2=A0 What if it s= aid :=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0- =C2=A0A tale of hot times in the cool woodlands of= Beleriand =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 so I would consider that any education= needs to be directed at setting the warnings and summaries to help readers= find what they are looking for and avoid those things they aren't. =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sulriel ----------MB_8CA995D7757E542_560_C99_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
= I have to say that given the popularity of "erotica" and the ever more cras= s PWP, both Het and Slash, I find it somewhat amusing to think that people = need to be educated in order to appreciate it. ;)

I'm= not sure that is true. I have not found an increase of extreme PWPs, = but rather a decline. But maybe that is because I know where to look (and n= ot to look). If we were talking Harry Potter that might be true. But then a= gain I don't know a lot about that fandom either.


-----Origi= nal Message-----
From: S=C3=BAlriel of Menegroth To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 10 Jun = 2008 5:48 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (= Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, a...

>>&= gt;Educating the wider readership about inappropriate blanket dismissals
of slash as PWP or whatever seems like it would be a futile
undertaking.  We have to trust/allow people to make up their = own minds
about what they're willing to try.  I think tha= t's the only way it works.
 
I= have to say that given the popularity of "erotica" and the ever more crass= PWP, both Het and Slash, I find it somewhat amusing to think that people n= eed to be educated in order to appreciate it. ;)
 
=
 
 
On Tue, Jun 10= , 2008 at 2:39 PM, Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.com> wrote: >  
>= ; Sexual Content--Mild
> Sexual Content
> S= exual Content--Graphic
> Sexual Content--Heterosexual/= Het
> Sexual Content--Homosexual/Slash
&n= bsp;
I like this suggestion, but how about like = this:   
> Sexual Content--Mild
>= Sexual Content
> Sexual Content--Graphic
>= >(and added) a space for pairings: ____________
 
> out, evocative for many people of graphic PWP, not the kinds = of stories that
> explore the political, social, and famili= al relationships through the lens
> of a character who is h= omosexual and that don't necessarily intend to be
> prurien= t.
 
I feel this should be ap= parent from the summary.
 
...and I had to go check my summary:
 
Prey for the Hunter by Sulriel
Rated: Teens <= /div>
Summary: A tale of loss and love in the wilds of Beleriand
Characters: Amras, Amrod, Original Characters
Genres= : Horror, Romance
Warnings: Character Death, Mature Themes, Se= xual Content--Mild, Violence
 
I think the o= nly thing I would change would be to have the option of OMCs and OFCs in ad= dition to the more general OCs.  If could list a pairing Amrod/OFC wou= ld give people an idea of the mild sexual content.
 
I wonder if the people who have read this felt the summary and war= nings accurately set their expectations for the story....  What if it = said :   -  A tale of hot times in the cool woodlands o= f Beleriand
 
 
 
so I would consider that any education needs to be directed at s= etting the warnings and summaries to help readers find what they are lookin= g for and avoid those things they aren't.
 
 
 Sulriel
Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & m= ore!
----------MB_8CA995D7757E542_560_C99_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1978 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93641 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 22:39:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 22:39:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 22:39:10 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C7358015 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:39:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:39:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:39:08 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <131815765.20080611003908@tlen.pl> To: keiliss In-Reply-To: References: <1327577574.20080610183912@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=3CWivPIhnc1U2PhlxQo_JU-6YDS9dHdotqX_RLvO_YiXBDSYmFY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Keiliss, k> My objection is to the situations where a person's dislike for slash, k> Mary Sues, dwarves (why would anyone dislike dwarves??) is not k> pertinent to the discussion, but they feel compelled to make sure you k> know how much they hate it anyway. It's context, I think, not the k> words themselves. We all have a right to our opinions, but should give k> thought to where and how we express them. There is a point where words k> stop being opinions and become weapons. Does that make sense? Hope so, k> because it took me an hour to work this out, lol. Yes it does :) Context, but also all the little words that turn a neutral sentence into negative, irritating remark - "as always", "you never/ ever" etc. or the "of course" you gave in examples. Someone feels insecure and "of course" means that although they red that excerpt they still do belong to that right thinking group of people. Or maybe they would feel rude if they just said they don't like slash, we don't like think of ourselves as being rude people so they add "of course" which is enough alibi to stay among good people as "of course every rightful person doesn't like it". Or just a kid who always hear "of course you failed ... again, you'll never learn anything..." etc. mirrors it in a comment. There can be many reasons but it doesn't mean such remarks are justified, especially if put on purpose, not unconsciously. k> The idea of writing a softer version of a story for other audiences k> has one problem for me - and I can only answer for the way I write, of k> course. I write relationships, so taking the occasional sex scene out k> of a story would not remove the slash element. Also, sex is a way to k> illustrate aspects of a relationship, so depth would go with the cut. k> I think most people not involved in writing PWPs would say the same? Well if you focus on relation not tell it on a side, then it's hard to separate it, as in Oshun's stories. But if you were writing about let's say Nirnaeth Arnoediad - as that was one of examples I was writing about before - you could skip some details of relation between characters, reader would make their own interpretation depending on their preferences or how well they know your stories. That was idea for those authors who want to reach wider audience or test their stories on readers that they never had a chance to reach because of genre they write, but don't have to sacrifice the main focus of their story to do it. Another idea. I guess usually while building a character, getting to know them you write short stories, impressions, situations with them. Let it be character's impression on fading when they encounter death for the first time, for example. It could have nothing to do with the main plot of your main story, but being exercise would serve as a test sample on general archive. It could be a wink-wink story as Oshun mentioned, as well, where you play with reader and only fans know what is really going on. k> I think in many ways slash is segregated, and when you set something k> apart, it draws attention to it. True. k> If my character list says Glorfindel/OMC, but the rating is teen, you can be assured you will k> find nothing graphically sexual. But people are conditioned to not k> look past the word 'slash' in the warning list, and many think 'slash' k> and 'badly written PWP' are interchangeable. That's why I thought there should be a different label to use for general stories (teen would fit there, too). k> All slash fics risk being k> tarred with the 'Glorfindel/Erestor, mpreg, NC-17, AU, unbetad but hey k> I had fun writing it' brush. I think that is what, as someone who k> writes slash, annoys me most --- I do not assume all het is the same, k> nor do I assume all stories about hobbits are the same just because I k> write and prefer reading elves. It's all a matter of respect? I still believe people are afraid of something they don't know, so treat certain labels as real warning signs and don't move further, no matter how interesting a story is. Some may have bad experiences or it's in conflict with their religious believes. And of course there are people who doesn't like the subject as others hate bananas. None of them will read your story unless they stop being afraid or believing it's a sin (or change their taste on their own). I also believe mature people will not troll such stories, only skip them. But there must be a wide group of people who have no preferences but just were told slash stories are as you said 'Glorfindel/Erestor, mpreg, NC-17, AU, unbetad' or simply badly written, disrespectful, disgusting p 0r n. More education on what slash is or a better, neutral label would attract them or wouldn't scare them away and who knows maybe they would enjoy a few stories? But I should be sleeping now! Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1979 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64335 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 23:10:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 23:10:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 23:10:32 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B39C58014 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:10:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:10:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:10:28 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <645401566.20080611011028@tlen.pl> To: vanimore_gorthaurion In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=LiM4lsn2WEViBy-ack79VX6Fgq3lB8ryOSnobBoQG_do4JXHUVA X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai vanimore gorthaurion, v> Where did the term Slash originate anyway? Fr= om the slash "/" used between character names, as I've red once on-line whi= le looking for description of "slash" fiction. v> but I wish there was a= better term for situations where the relationships involve two v> males r= ather than slash, I still call it Male Romance in my mind. Yes, very good = name. But now maybe I understand you wrong, but from here: v> I would = hate to see my favorite slash stories catering for the v> mainstream. Main= stream bestseller books usually cater for the dumbest v> common denominato= r and are books people can take on holiday, so my v> opinion of popular ma= instream LOTR fanfic is not high either. (...) v> Is it fair to expect = authors writing about adults to cater for kids and people who are v> phobi= c or squeamish about the facts of adult life? It looks like you depreciate= people who don't read slash. That's my impression from your words. If it's= true then, no, you should not try to reach them as you do not respect them= . That would be cheating. v> I love to see the character dynamics betwee= n adults and in an adult relationship, v> whether het or slash, sex exists= , or it should, and that is what I v> want to read, something well rounded= which handles all aspects of v> living an adult life, grief, guilt, hate,= bereavement, love and sex. Yet you need to understand that for some peopl= e LotR brings different values, they see a deeper message behind the story = and they do not want to read about sex and will never accept homosexuality = there as it conflicts their ideal vision of the world. And they have got ri= ght to it. You don't want het in stories which you have outside a window, t= hey don't want social conflicts and explicit sex they can reach easily outs= ide of Arda. Or are harassed by it, depending on POV. v> There is a glut = of fluff out there, and fluff does actually * squick * v> me worse than an= ything. I hope no-one I love as an author adds to it. Romance is not the o= nly genre in fiction, so no worries to write about fluff. BTW, I see you ar= e afraid of fluff the same as others are afraid of MarySues and slash. To a= ddress people who dislike slash you don't have to force yourself to write h= et romance, pretend to be someone you aren't. If you prefer gay romance wit= h adult content they are just not your target, that's all. Suilad, Sirie= lle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http:= //sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1980 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90870 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 23:14:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 23:14:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 23:14:54 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306F110401A for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:14:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:14:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:14:52 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <8310168205.20080611011452@tlen.pl> To: Gwidhiel In-Reply-To: References: <1979111676.20080610192351@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=vParvANvBHrq4PavEN6Zmrggrt8MOKPCa4QCvdURFJUiidc1Do4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Gwidhiel, G> Sexually explicit stuff seems to be what some people are worried G> about, and what people are trying to accommodate with the labeling system. G> No? I would say it is. In fact I don't care about adult people, but I wouldn't like kids to reach stuff they are not prepared for, be it het or slash. To me labels are for them. But yes, I like to be warned of stuff I don't appreciate so labels are useful and sex and violence are IMO the most important ones. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1981 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrapcat21@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87599 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2008 23:16:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2008 23:16:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2008 23:16:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 23:16:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2008 23:16:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 23:16:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <131815765.20080611003908@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "keiliss" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=238321209; y=s3kX4Y8ohQeijo7ZcXuFLsxX5_BiEtQ7r1DGpU-QsjMjZf8gtA X-Yahoo-Profile: keiliss Food for thought, Sirielle. Thank you :) Sleep well. (past my bedtime too= ) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wrote: > > Ai Keiliss, > > k> My objection is to the situations where= a person's dislike for slash, > k> Mary Sues, dwarves (why would anyone d= islike dwarves??) is not > k> pertinent to the discussion, but they feel c= ompelled to make sure you > k> know how much they hate it anyway. It's con= text, I think, not the > k> words themselves. We all have a right to our o= pinions, but should give > k> thought to where and how we express them. Th= ere is a point where words > k> stop being opinions and become weapons. Do= es that make sense? Hope so, > k> because it took me an hour to work this = out, lol. > > Yes it does :) Context, but also all the little words that t= urn a > neutral sentence into negative, irritating remark - "as always", "y= ou > never/ ever" etc. or the "of course" you gave in examples. Someone > f= eels insecure and "of course" means that although they red that > excerpt t= hey still do belong to that right thinking group of people. > Or maybe they= would feel rude if they just > said they don't like slash, we don't like t= hink of ourselves as > being rude people so they add "of course" which is e= nough > alibi to stay among good people as "of course every rightful person= > doesn't like it". Or just a kid who always hear "of course you > failed = ... again, you'll never learn anything..." etc. mirrors it in a > comment. = There can be many reasons but it doesn't mean such remarks > are justified,= especially if put on purpose, not unconsciously. > > k> The idea of wri= ting a softer version of a story for other audiences > k> has one problem = for me - and I can only answer for the way I write, of > k> course. I writ= e relationships, so taking the occasional sex scene out > k> of a story wo= uld not remove the slash element. Also, sex is a way to > k> illustrate as= pects of a relationship, so depth would go with the cut. > k> I think most= people not involved in writing PWPs would say the same? > > Well if you f= ocus on relation not tell it on a side, then it's hard to > separate it, as= in Oshun's stories. But if you were writing about > let's say Nirnaeth Arn= oediad - as that was one of examples I was > writing about before - you cou= ld skip some details of relation between > characters, reader would make th= eir own interpretation depending on > their preferences or how well they kn= ow your stories. > That was idea for those authors who want to reach wider = audience or > test their stories on readers that they never had a chance to= reach > because of genre they write, but don't have to sacrifice the main = focus of > their story to do it. > > Another idea. I guess usually while b= uilding a character, getting to > know them you write short stories, impres= sions, situations with > them. Let it be character's impression on fading w= hen they encounter > death for the first time, for example. It could have n= othing to do with the > main plot of your main story, but being exercise wo= uld serve as a test sample on general > archive. It could be a wink-wink st= ory as Oshun mentioned, as well, where you > play with reader and only fans= know what is really going on. > > > k> I think in many ways slash is se= gregated, and when you set something > k> apart, it draws attention to it.= > > True. > > k> If my character list says Glorfindel/OMC, but the rati= ng is teen, you can be assured you will > k> find nothing graphically sexu= al. But people are conditioned to not > k> look past the word 'slash' in t= he warning list, and many think 'slash' > k> and 'badly written PWP' are i= nterchangeable. > > That's why I thought there should be a different label= to use for > general stories (teen would fit there, too). > > k> All slas= h fics risk being > k> tarred with the 'Glorfindel/Erestor, mpreg, NC-17, = AU, unbetad but hey > k> I had fun writing it' brush. I think that is what= , as someone who > k> writes slash, annoys me most --- I do not assume all= het is the same, > k> nor do I assume all stories about hobbits are the s= ame just because I > k> write and prefer reading elves. It's all a matter = of respect? > > I still believe people are afraid of something they don't = know, so > treat certain labels as real warning signs and don't move furthe= r, no > matter how interesting a story is. Some may have bad experiences or= > it's in conflict with their religious believes. And of course there > ar= e people who doesn't like the subject as others hate bananas. None of them = will read your story unless they > stop being afraid or believing it's a si= n (or change their taste on > their own). I also believe mature people will= not troll such stories, only skip them. > But there must be a wide group o= f people who have no preferences but > just were told slash stories are as = you said 'Glorfindel/Erestor, mpreg, NC-17, > AU, unbetad' or simply badly = written, disrespectful, disgusting p 0r n. More > education on what slash i= s or a better, neutral label would attract > them or wouldn't scare them aw= ay and who knows maybe they would enjoy > a few stories? > > > But I shou= ld be sleeping now! > > Suilad, > Sirielle > >= sirielle@... > http://www.isle.px.pl > http://sirielle.cgsociety.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1982 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92213 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 00:24:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 00:24:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 00:24:57 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c1c.3991e118 (34931) for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:24:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-md16 (webmail-md16.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.134]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA044-8873484f1b55230; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:24:53 -0400 References: <1979111676.20080610192351@tlen.pl> <8310168205.20080611011452@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:24:54 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: <8310168205.20080611011452@tlen.pl> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA9970B482FCAF_560_1B0B_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37080-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.134) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:24:54 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA9970B468C29A-560-D8D@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=SxYXuFsrZVR4GleHZL42yINcc7MUsfpZ24pKCt-PFk3wVT69SjOS X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CA9970B482FCAF_560_1B0B_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" But yes, I like to be warned of stuff I don't appreciate so labels are useful and sex and violence are IMO the most important ones. That's you and me, but I was told by a writer on another site that she would prefer if people didn't even post excerpts for slash pieces even though they contain not a trace of slash. It was definitely not a question of sex or violence in that case. Doesn't matter, actually, I do think people self-select and that is fine, but people shouldn't express themselves pejoratively along the way. -----Original Message----- From: Sirielle To: Gwidhiel Sent: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 7:14 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven...) Ai Gwidhiel, G> Sexually explicit stuff seems to be what some people are worried G> about, and what people are trying to accommodate with the labeling system. G> No? I would say it is. In fact I don't care about adult people, but I wouldn't like kids to reach stuff they are not prepared for, be it het or slash. To me labels are for them. But yes, I like to be warned of stuff I don't appreciate so labels are useful and sex and violence are IMO the most important ones. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org ----------MB_8CA9970B482FCAF_560_1B0B_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
But yes, I like to be warned
of stuff I don't appreciate so labels are useful and sex and violence
are IMO the most important ones.

That's you and me, but I was told by a writer on another site that she would prefer if people didn't even post excerpts for slash pieces even though they contain not a trace of slash. It was definitely not a question of sex or violence in that case. Doesn't matter, actually, I do think people self-select and that is fine, but people shouldn't express themselves pejoratively along the way.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sirielle
To: Gwidhiel
Sent: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 7:14 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven...)

Ai Gwidhiel,

G> Sexually explicit stuff seems to be what some people are worried
G> about, and what people are trying to accommodate with the labeling system.

G> No?

I would say it is. In fact I don't care about adult people, but I
wouldn't like kids to reach stuff they are not prepared for, be it
het or slash. To me labels are for them. But yes, I like to be warned
of stuff I don't appreciate so labels are useful and sex and violence
are IMO the most important ones.

Suilad,
Sirielle

sirielle@tlen.pl
http://www.isle.px.pl
http://sirielle.cgsociety.org

----------MB_8CA9970B482FCAF_560_1B0B_webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1983 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66291 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 00:36:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 00:36:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.128) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 00:36:49 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 00:36:49 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 00:36:49 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 00:36:49 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:36:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8CA9970B468C29A-560-D8D@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9-1566328817-7166744371=:9" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=Bg8L3A8vGnXpyT-doI-xGqKn08NraXWMAPfo9lomWCHd3v_zXQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --9-1566328817-7166744371=:9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: = Doesn't matter, actually, I do think people self-select and that is fine, b= ut people shouldn't express themselves pejoratively along the way. Exactly= . Of course not everyone is going to like everything, but what is with all= this smugness over it? "I'm better than you because I don't like ***, and= I'm proud of it!" Honestly, maybe I'm being an idealist, but can we all j= ust live and let live? --9-1566328817-7166744371=:9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wr= ote:

Doesn't matter, actually, I do think people self-select and tha= t is fine, but people shouldn't express themselves pejoratively along the w= ay.

Exactly.

Of course not everyone is going to like ever= ything, but what is with all this smugness over it?  "I'm better than = you because I don't like ***, and I'm proud of it!"  Honestly, maybe I= 'm being an idealist, but can we all just live and let live?
--9-1566328817-7166744371=:9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1984 Return-Path: X-Sender: vanimore_gorthaurion@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10270 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 06:11:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 06:11:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n51b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.165) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 06:11:45 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n51.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 06:11:45 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 06:11:45 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 06:11:44 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 06:11:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <645401566.20080611011028@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "vanimore_gorthaurion" Subject: Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=345322431; y=hnuzgBH0lX1bsltl9M6I7emejQcjz-yRPYfSTsfSEyYxjy5yAvUYH3A9UDY6JiY X-Yahoo-Profile: vanimore_gorthaurion I dislike bigotry intensely ( in any form ), so if people state they won't = read slash since it goes against their beliefs, or world view then yes, I d= epreciate all bigoted people. ( Polite way of putting it, I feel contempt f= or any-one who is bigoted ) I refuse to accommodate them or recognize them= , in RL or on the internet. ( On the other hand if some-one said they would= not read any sex scene whether slash or het, that is not bigoted, but rath= er a personal disinclination, so fair enough. I would try and persuade any-= one to read violence/sex etc since it might cause them discomfort for reaso= ns I know nothing about ) I won't make something palatable for people who= do not agree with MM slash, their narrow mindedness is their problem. I a= m not actually trying to reach an audience, so I'm quite happy with people = not reading me. But I do get defensive on behalf of great authors I follow = and admire whose work gets dismissed because it's slash. Certain vicious = people on the ff. net forums, also on their LJ's I believe, though I can't = be bothered to look, yes they mock authors of Sue's, but they vilify slash = writers savagely and insult them. Their opinion means nothing to me persona= lly, but when I think of the superb slash writers out there I spit nails. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1985 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45329 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 14:08:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 14:08:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 14:08:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 14:08:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 14:08:53 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:08:51 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: New genre labels (Was:Re: Ratings, Warnings, and Other Fandom Conven...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=ypDL1JefKYp1joFcp_4TFsnwZJ_E3cgtbUui3faCbJ05gAc X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Feta" wr= ote: > > > Of course not everyone is going to like everything, but what is= with all > this smugness over it? "I'm better than you because I don't li= ke ***, > and I'm proud of it!" Honestly, maybe I'm being an idealist, but= can we > all just live and let live? > I agree, Feta! People shouldn't h= ave to justify their preferences, but there's no need to rub others' faces = in them, either. I do agree with folks here about people putting their "No= This or That" preferences in their profile. What does that serve? You do= n't like something, don't read it! Use the labels to pick and choose accor= dingly. My imaginary profile reading preferences would say "No spider = stories." And then I'd be inadvertently insulting the person who wrote a r= eally unique and insightful piece about the culture of the spiders of Mirkw= ood. Why? Although it's an undeniable (and unlikely to change) part of wh= o I am, my arachnophobia is not something I'm exactly proud of, and it's ce= rtainly not the first thing I'd want people to know about me. Although I've= just announced it (doh!) My apologies to anyone who has written a Shelob = story. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1986 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35738 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 15:22:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 15:22:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.30) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 15:22:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 15:22:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 15:22:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:22:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=yGgRlkyR_rGgGDt61KPTU4ZjTPLNedOnV_tzzBRzn-7TxrwNlHpP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund I first of all have to apologize for disappearing from the Internet for th= e last day. On top of my Internet being down at work for all but the last = half-hour of my day, we had violent storms in central Maryland last night,= so I was without power--and Internet--there until late last night. Thanks= again to everyone for keeping the discussion civil, not to mention though= t-provoking, even though I know that this is not the easiest of topics tha= t we are discussing. :) Those of you waiting for replies on emails or foru= m posts (betas? >.<), I will get to it today. Right before I left work (a= nd the online world!) yesterday, I saw that Kei had brought up what I have= been thinking of, privately to myself through this whole discussion, as t= he elephant in the slash discussion room. To what extent does a dislike of= slash (or homosexuality in Tolkien's stories) equate with homophobia? I = don't have an answer. I don't think that there are any easy answers. :) I = will say that I know that *some* abhorrence of slash is motivated by homop= hobia. I don't think I'll find any arguments here; it's pretty darned obvi= ous when a person says, "I don't think that slash has any place in a world= as beautiful as Tolkien's" that they are homophobic, even if they claim _= not_ to be in the same sentence. (Unfortunately, I am not making this exam= ple up. I saw it in the profile of someone on ff.net.) I will also say th= at I know that some people who won't read slash are _not_ homophobic, beca= use I once made this claim and was not homophobic. At the time, I wanted t= o read more stories that fitted neatly into Tolkien's--that is, very canon= -compliant--and had the unfounded belief that homosexuality was solidly no= t canon, based largely on fanon and what I had been told by others. As I l= earned more, this view slowly changed. But my point is not to defend my c= hoice then and my choice now but to point out that my motivation was very = different from the motivation of the "beautiful world" woman in the exampl= e above, even though we would have chosen to avoid the same stories. I ca= n understand that people who avoid slash because it doesn't fit their cano= nical picture of Tolkien's world and they like their stories to stay true = to canon become frustrated and hurt by the implication that they are homop= hobic for their choice. This is a terrible label to bear. (Even more terri= ble than the SWG slash label. ;) At the same time, I can understand the de= fensiveness of slash writers where this is concerned. Unfortunately, the t= wo of them are a volatile combination, and so you end up with any discuss= ion of slash devolving into a flamewar and nothing gets accomplished excep= t that the two sides eventually stop talking to each other. And that solve= s nothing. About three years ago, two things happened in my life that chan= ged my stance on slash. (I had been reading it for about a year by then, = but I had not yet written it and did not think it likely that I ever would= .) First, I asked one of my best online friends to request a story for her= birthday in June. She requested a slash pairing, Feanor/Erestor to be exa= ct. Secondly, my sister came out to me that she was bisexual. Not only was= she bisexual, but she was in love with a British bisexual woman and was g= oing to leave her fiance over it. Over the next few months, I wrote my sla= sh novella for Alina, and I was my sister's primary confidant as she went = about telling the people in her life that she was bisexual, fearing at eve= ry turn that someone she cared about would refuse to accept her for who sh= e was and she would lose that person in her life. The good news was that = she and her girlfriend loved each other deeply and decided to get married.= The bad news was that, though they wanted to marry and live in the US, sa= me-sex marriage is not legal here (at least in Maryland), so my sister wou= ld be moving to England. Even as I am thankful every day that the UK is to= lerant enough to allow them the opportunity to live as any other married c= ouple, it was devastating and maddening that the person my sister was not = good enough for her own country and that our family would be broken up bec= ause of it. So even as the struggles that GLBT people face became a daily = reality for me because of my sister, I was also learning what it was like= to be a slash writer. Anyone who has read _By the Light of Roses_, the no= vella that came out of Alina's challenge to me, knows that a lot of my fru= stration over the difficulties my sister was facing show up in the story. = I'm not sure if it's better or worse for that but, at the least, it does s= how that our lives and our fiction sometimes entwine, even when our fictio= n takes place in a world far from our own. And here I come to my point wi= th all of this. (Finally, yes, I know. :) When discussing fiction that ten= ds to be discounted or disregarded by a significant number of readers, it = seems to me that the most passionate defense comes for slash fiction. Mary= Sue, AU, and others also get ignored by many readers, but the most heated= discussions almost always focus on slash. Why? I think this is our reali= ty and our fiction entwining. For many of us in this group, equal rights f= or GLBT people are still a long way from happening. This has touched many = of us, more than just me, personally, I know. We watch our friends and our= loved ones--or we ourselves--struggle against a political and moral clima= te that hates GLBT people for who they are. It is at once heartbreaking an= d infuriating. And, for me, strong emotions like that have only one solut= ion: writing. Otherwise, I might violate my pacifism and kick the ass of = the next person that I see with a Man + Woman =3D Marriage bumpersticker o= n their car. :) And, at the end of the day, that would do no good at all. = So I write about it. Others who write slash, I know, do so in part for the= same reason. Tolkien's society is a perfect one for this, in many ways. T= he morality is based closely on his own Christian morality, and the canon = seems to disfavor homosexuality much in the same way that our societal nor= ms do: even as people acknowledge that it might exist, they'd rather it n= ot. Or they'd rather not know if it does. Yet Elves and Men are both human= s. History and science converge to show that homosexuality is normal behav= ior for humans, so why not Elves and Men? At the end of the day, I feel be= tter for writing my stories and, best case scenario, maybe my writing will= change just one person's mind. And if each person changes one mind in tur= n, soon we have progress. (What were you saying, Feta, about idealism? You= 're not alone in that, you know. ;) In the midst of all of this, slash wr= iters bring their stories into a community where there is a significant co= ntingent that would rather they not exist. Are these people homophobic? No= t always, of course not. But for one who sees homophobia too often in real= life, who has learned to look for it lurking in otherwise innocent remark= s and offhand comments, it's really hard not to suspect it when someone e= nters the room practically shouting, "I don't read slash!" or, when choosi= ng the most important things about themselves to tell a potential audience= in a bio on an archive, decides that a dislike of slash deserves a place = front-and-center. And some people who avoid slash are homophobic. And so i= t becomes a natural response upon hearing that someone avoids slash to at = least wonder, much in the same way that I am more guarded around conservat= ive Christians than I am moderate Christians, atheists and agnostics, and = people of other faiths because the worst hate against GLBT people in my c= ountry comes from conservative Christians. It does not mean that being a c= onservative Christian automatically equates to homophobia-- I have conserva= tive Christian friends online and off that thwart that easy generalization= --but I am more likely to pause and wonder, just as I'm more likely to pau= se and wonder if a person declares, "I don't read slash." And maybe, if w= e lived in a society less tolerant of homophobia in general, then there wo= uld be less difficulty with the assumption that if we accept Elves and Men= as _Homo sapiens_ just as we are, then that makes it likely that a certai= n number of them were homosexual or bisexual. Just as many of us have trou= ble accepting-- and indeed reject--beliefs about Elven behavior that seem c= ontrary to what one would expect from humans, it may be that mentioning in= a story that a character is gay might likewise pass unremarked upon rath= er than be considered deserving of a warning or as a human behavior that i= s nonetheless worthy of being AU. But I can't know this for sure, of cours= e. :) For this reason, I think that avoiding slash will remain much more = controversial than an avoidance of, for example, AU or Hobbits, even thoug= h some people avoiding slash may do so for the same reasons: canon interpr= etation and just plain ol' preference. And I sympathize with those who may= end up lumped in with the wrong crowd just because of what they like to r= ead (or not), but I do think it's worth remembering that some of us bring = a lot of baggage with our slash stories, completely unrelated to fandom. I= think the important thing is to both talk and listen in discussions like = these. Which is why I thank you all again for this one. :) Dawn Felagund = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1987 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54121 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 16:04:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 16:04:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 16:04:53 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 74005 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2008 16:04:52 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Y8Mm6U8VM1mPQ4K3WpXvOnW5cGmPiREi4NmAZSsdlDYnmgi.icuKpg0FgeCZNraVlKQ94OSQl9PTdHswt6oPDnAdAg7MHDjA7t5_qp3QRCk8NZMNQ0oGrB4- X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:04:52 PDT Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:04:52 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1746704448-1213200292=:73758" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <564168.73758.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=pypxfI7GYr_Xzcmpx9sLinhkwo4cHumoNvhj7Xpiwt_gNprKVg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1746704448-1213200292=:73758 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I had said I was going to keep quiet but I feel like at this point I have to respond. I started to reply to quite a few posts and have about 10 saved in my draft folders because I was trying to not be so impulsive with my comments. I'll be honest - I was one of the ones that felt upset that IMO that some on here were saying that if you don't like or write slash - you were homophobic. I don't write slash - I only write Het. I try not to ever insult people by saying anything against what they have written. I have never flamed anyone - ever - nor do I appreciate the attacks that were made by certain people on FF.net to my slash and het writing friends. I have many friends that only write slash and some that write both. I've read some of each but since I post mainly on OSA and SoA - thats what I am normally exposed to. Lately I haven't been reading much of anything due to time. Personally - I don't care what people write. I am associated with these people because I find them interesting and enjoyable and we all love the same thing: the works of JRR Tolkein. Someone on this thread posted that fluff *squicked* them or they didn't read Het at all yet people seem to think thats not a personal attack on fluff and het writers but not liking slash is a personal attack. Either way - its the same thing. I'm not talking about people who post publically that slash is 'sick' or anything like that - I'm talking about the comments that were made on this conversation and in general conversations before. I have never seen any remarks by an SWG member on this forum against slash so I guess I wondered where all of this sudden feeling that 'everyone hates slash' was coming from within this group. To say that people who don't like slash are homophobic is insulting. We all have personal baggage that influence how we react. I'm a very 'peace, love, and happiness' type person who gets easily disgusted by bigots or zealots of any kind. I've gone one on one with more than enough people about their homophobic, racist, narrow-minded thinking. In fact I have a lot of gay friends which causes me to get a lot of grief from a lot of conservative people in my life. So to be, as Dawn put it, lumped in with the group of homophobic non-slash readers/writers is not only not accurate - its not fair to me and I did take it personally. And I feel like others did as well. I do agree that its a hot topic in some places but since there wasn't a problem with the members of this group being anti-slash - I don't understand why it was discussed to the level of anyone feeling defensive or insulted. After a lot of thought about this last nite, I think that the people on here that actually know me, know I am not one of 'those' people who hates slashwriters, thinks its sick, and is homophobic so I'm trying not to take it too personally. Its easy to assume things about each other when we don't know but we should all be careful not to label someone. Period. Dawn Felagund wrote: I first of all have to apologize for disappearing from the Internet for the last day. On top of my Internet being down at work for all but the last half-hour of my day, we had violent storms in central Maryland last night, so I was without power--and Internet--there until late last night. Thanks again to everyone for keeping the discussion civil, not to mention thought-provoking, even though I know that this is not the easiest of topics that we are discussing. :) Those of you waiting for replies on emails or forum posts (betas? >.<), I will get to it today. Right before I left work (and the online world!) yesterday, I saw that Kei had brought up what I have been thinking of, privately to myself through this whole discussion, as the elephant in the slash discussion room. To what extent does a dislike of slash (or homosexuality in Tolkien's stories) equate with homophobia? I don't have an answer. I don't think that there are any easy answers. :) I will say that I know that *some* abhorrence of slash is motivated by homophobia. I don't think I'll find any arguments here; it's pretty darned obvious when a person says, "I don't think that slash has any place in a world as beautiful as Tolkien's" that they are homophobic, even if they claim _not_ to be in the same sentence. (Unfortunately, I am not making this example up. I saw it in the profile of someone on ff.net.) I will also say that I know that some people who won't read slash are _not_ homophobic, because I once made this claim and was not homophobic. At the time, I wanted to read more stories that fitted neatly into Tolkien's--that is, very canon-compliant--and had the unfounded belief that homosexuality was solidly not canon, based largely on fanon and what I had been told by others. As I learned more, this view slowly changed. But my point is not to defend my choice then and my choice now but to point out that my motivation was very different from the motivation of the "beautiful world" woman in the example above, even though we would have chosen to avoid the same stories. I can understand that people who avoid slash because it doesn't fit their canonical picture of Tolkien's world and they like their stories to stay true to canon become frustrated and hurt by the implication that they are homophobic for their choice. This is a terrible label to bear. (Even more terrible than the SWG slash label. ;) At the same time, I can understand the defensiveness of slash writers where this is concerned. Unfortunately, the two of them are a volatile combination, and so you end up with any discussion of slash devolving into a flamewar and nothing gets accomplished except that the two sides eventually stop talking to each other. And that solves nothing. About three years ago, two things happened in my life that changed my stance on slash. (I had been reading it for about a year by then, but I had not yet written it and did not think it likely that I ever would.) First, I asked one of my best online friends to request a story for her birthday in June. She requested a slash pairing, Feanor/Erestor to be exact. Secondly, my sister came out to me that she was bisexual. Not only was she bisexual, but she was in love with a British bisexual woman and was going to leave her fiance over it. Over the next few months, I wrote my slash novella for Alina, and I was my sister's primary confidant as she went about telling the people in her life that she was bisexual, fearing at every turn that someone she cared about would refuse to accept her for who she was and she would lose that person in her life. The good news was that she and her girlfriend loved each other deeply and decided to get married. The bad news was that, though they wanted to marry and live in the US, same-sex marriage is not legal here (at least in Maryland), so my sister would be moving to England. Even as I am thankful every day that the UK is tolerant enough to allow them the opportunity to live as any other married couple, it was devastating and maddening that the person my sister was not good enough for her own country and that our family would be broken up because of it. So even as the struggles that GLBT people face became a daily reality for me because of my sister, I was also learning what it was like to be a slash writer. Anyone who has read _By the Light of Roses_, the novella that came out of Alina's challenge to me, knows that a lot of my frustration over the difficulties my sister was facing show up in the story. I'm not sure if it's better or worse for that but, at the least, it does show that our lives and our fiction sometimes entwine, even when our fiction takes place in a world far from our own. And here I come to my point with all of this. (Finally, yes, I know. :) When discussing fiction that tends to be discounted or disregarded by a significant number of readers, it seems to me that the most passionate defense comes for slash fiction. Mary Sue, AU, and others also get ignored by many readers, but the most heated discussions almost always focus on slash. Why? I think this is our reality and our fiction entwining. For many of us in this group, equal rights for GLBT people are still a long way from happening. This has touched many of us, more than just me, personally, I know. We watch our friends and our loved ones--or we ourselves--struggle against a political and moral climate that hates GLBT people for who they are. It is at once heartbreaking and infuriating. And, for me, strong emotions like that have only one solution: writing. Otherwise, I might violate my pacifism and kick the ass of the next person that I see with a Man + Woman = Marriage bumpersticker on their car. :) And, at the end of the day, that would do no good at all. So I write about it. Others who write slash, I know, do so in part for the same reason. Tolkien's society is a perfect one for this, in many ways. The morality is based closely on his own Christian morality, and the canon seems to disfavor homosexuality much in the same way that our societal norms do: even as people acknowledge that it might exist, they'd rather it not. Or they'd rather not know if it does. Yet Elves and Men are both humans. History and science converge to show that homosexuality is normal behavior for humans, so why not Elves and Men? At the end of the day, I feel better for writing my stories and, best case scenario, maybe my writing will change just one person's mind. And if each person changes one mind in turn, soon we have progress. (What were you saying, Feta, about idealism? You're not alone in that, you know. ;) In the midst of all of this, slash writers bring their stories into a community where there is a significant contingent that would rather they not exist. Are these people homophobic? Not always, of course not. But for one who sees homophobia too often in real life, who has learned to look for it lurking in otherwise innocent remarks and offhand comments, it's really hard not to suspect it when someone enters the room practically shouting, "I don't read slash!" or, when choosing the most important things about themselves to tell a potential audience in a bio on an archive, decides that a dislike of slash deserves a place front-and-center. And some people who avoid slash are homophobic. And so it becomes a natural response upon hearing that someone avoids slash to at least wonder, much in the same way that I am more guarded around conservative Christians than I am moderate Christians, atheists and agnostics, and people of other faiths because the worst hate against GLBT people in my country comes from conservative Christians. It does not mean that being a conservative Christian automatically equates to homophobia-- I have conservative Christian friends online and off that thwart that easy generalization--but I am more likely to pause and wonder, just as I'm more likely to pause and wonder if a person declares, "I don't read slash." And maybe, if we lived in a society less tolerant of homophobia in general, then there would be less difficulty with the assumption that if we accept Elves and Men as _Homo sapiens_ just as we are, then that makes it likely that a certain number of them were homosexual or bisexual. Just as many of us have trouble accepting-- and indeed reject--beliefs about Elven behavior that seem contrary to what one would expect from humans, it may be that mentioning in a story that a character is gay might likewise pass unremarked upon rather than be considered deserving of a warning or as a human behavior that is nonetheless worthy of being AU. But I can't know this for sure, of course. :) For this reason, I think that avoiding slash will remain much more controversial than an avoidance of, for example, AU or Hobbits, even though some people avoiding slash may do so for the same reasons: canon interpretation and just plain ol' preference. And I sympathize with those who may end up lumped in with the wrong crowd just because of what they like to read (or not), but I do think it's worth remembering that some of us bring a lot of baggage with our slash stories, completely unrelated to fandom. I think the important thing is to both talk and listen in discussions like these. Which is why I thank you all again for this one. :) Dawn Felagund ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --0-1746704448-1213200292=:73758 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I had said I was going to keep quiet but I feel like at this point I have to respond. I started to reply to quite a few posts and have about 10 saved in my draft folders because I was trying to not be so impulsive with my comments.
 
I'll be honest - I was one of the ones that felt upset that IMO that some on here were saying that if you don't like or write slash - you were homophobic. I don't write slash - I only write Het. I try not to ever insult people by saying anything against what they have written. I have never flamed anyone - ever - nor do I appreciate the attacks that were made by certain people on FF.net to my slash and het writing friends. I have many friends that only write slash and some that write both. I've read some of each but since I post mainly on OSA and SoA - thats what I am normally exposed to. Lately I haven't been reading much of anything due to time. Personally - I don't care what people write. I am associated with these people because I find them interesting and enjoyable and we all love the same thing: the works of JRR Tolkein. Someone on this thread posted that fluff *squicked* them or they didn't read Het at all yet people seem to think thats not a personal attack on fluff and het writers but not liking slash is a personal attack. Either way - its the same thing. I'm not talking about people who post publically that slash is 'sick' or anything like that  - I'm talking about the comments that were made on this conversation and in general conversations before. I have never seen any remarks by an SWG member on this forum against slash so I guess I wondered where all of this sudden feeling that 'everyone hates slash' was coming from within this group. To say that people who don't like slash are homophobic is insulting. We all have personal baggage that influence how we react. I'm a very 'peace, love, and happiness' type person who gets easily disgusted by bigots or zealots of any kind. I've gone one on one with more than enough people about their homophobic, racist, narrow-minded thinking. In fact I have a lot of gay friends which causes me to get a lot of grief from a lot of conservative people in my life. So to be, as Dawn put it, lumped in with the group of homophobic non-slash readers/writers is not only not accurate - its not fair to me and I did take it personally. And I feel like others did as well. I do agree that its a hot topic in some places but since there wasn't a problem with the members of this group being anti-slash - I don't understand why it was discussed to the level of anyone feeling defensive or insulted.

After a lot of thought about this last nite, I think that the people on here that actually know me, know I am not one of 'those' people who hates slashwriters, thinks its sick, and is homophobic so I'm trying not to take it too personally. Its easy to assume things about each other when we don't know but we should all be careful not to label someone. Period.
 

Dawn Felagund wrote:
I first of all have to apologize for disappearing from the Internet
for the last day. On top of my Internet being down at work for all
but the last half-hour of my day, we had violent storms in central
Maryland last night, so I was without power--and Internet--there
until late last night. Thanks again to everyone for keeping the
discussion civil, not to mention thought-provoking, even though I
know that this is not the easiest of topics that we are
discussing. :) Those of you waiting for replies on emails or forum
posts (betas? >.<), I will get to it today.

Right before I left work (and the online world!) yesterday, I saw
that Kei had brought up what I have been thinking of, privately to
myself through this whole discussion, as the elephant in the slash
discussion room. To what extent does a dislike of slash (or
homosexuality in Tolkien's stories) equate with homophobia?

I don't have an answer. I don't think that there are any easy
answers. :) I will say that I know that *some* abhorrence of slash
is motivated by homophobia. I don't think I'll find any arguments
here; it's pretty darned obvious when a person says, "I don't think
that slash has any place in a world as beautiful as Tolkien's" that
they are homophobic, even if they claim _not_ to be in the same
sentence. (Unfortunately, I am not making this example up. I saw it
in the profile of someone on ff.net.)

I will also say that I know that some people who won't read slash
are _not_ homophobic, because I once made this claim and was not
homophobic. At the time, I wanted to read more stories that fitted
neatly into Tolkien's--that is, very canon-compliant--and had the
unfounded belief that homosexuality was solidly not canon, based
largely on fanon and what I had been told by others. As I learned
more, this view slowly changed. But my point is not to defend my
choice then and my choice now but to point out that my motivation
was very different from the motivation of the "beautiful world"
woman in the example above, even though we would have chosen to
avoid the same stories.

I can understand that people who avoid slash because it doesn't fit
their canonical picture of Tolkien's world and they like their
stories to stay true to canon become frustrated and hurt by the
implication that they are homophobic for their choice. This is a
terrible label to bear. (Even more terrible than the SWG slash
label. ;) At the same time, I can understand the defensiveness of
slash writers where this is concerned. Unfortunately, the two of
them are a volatile combination, and so you end up with any
discussion of slash devolving into a flamewar and nothing gets
accomplished except that the two sides eventually stop talking to
each other. And that solves nothing.

About three years ago, two things happened in my life that changed
my stance on slash. (I had been reading it for about a year by then,
but I had not yet written it and did not think it likely that I ever
would.) First, I asked one of my best online friends to request a
story for her birthday in June. She requested a slash pairing,
Feanor/Erestor to be exact. Secondly, my sister came out to me that
she was bisexual. Not only was she bisexual, but she was in love
with a British bisexual woman and was going to leave her fiance over
it. Over the next few months, I wrote my slash novella for Alina,
and I was my sister's primary confidant as she went about telling
the people in her life that she was bisexual, fearing at every turn
that someone she cared about would refuse to accept her for who she
was and she would lose that person in her life. The good news was
that she and her girlfriend loved each other deeply and decided to
get married. The bad news was that, though they wanted to marry and
live in the US, same-sex marriage is not legal here (at least in
Maryland), so my sister would be moving to England. Even as I am
thankful every day that the UK is tolerant enough to allow them the
opportunity to live as any other married couple, it was devastating
and maddening that the person my sister was not good enough for her
own country and that our family would be broken up because of it.

So even as the struggles that GLBT people face became a daily
reality for me because of my sister, I was also learning what it was
like to be a slash writer. Anyone who has read _By the Light of
Roses_, the novella that came out of Alina's challenge to me, knows
that a lot of my frustration over the difficulties my sister was
facing show up in the story. I'm not sure if it's better or worse
for that but, at the least, it does show that our lives and our
fiction sometimes entwine, even when our fiction takes place in a
world far from our own.

And here I come to my point with all of this. (Finally, yes, I
know. :) When discussing fiction that tends to be discounted or
disregarded by a significant number of readers, it seems to me that
the most passionate defense comes for slash fiction. Mary Sue, AU,
and others also get ignored by many readers, but the most heated
discussions almost always focus on slash. Why?

I think this is our reality and our fiction entwining. For many of
us in this group, equal rights for GLBT people are still a long way
from happening. This has touched many of us, more than just me,
personally, I know. We watch our friends and our loved ones--or we
ourselves--struggle against a political and moral climate that hates
GLBT people for who they are. It is at once heartbreaking and
infuriating.

And, for me, strong emotions like that have only one solution:
writing. Otherwise, I might violate my pacifism and kick the ass of
the next person that I see with a Man + Woman = Marriage
bumpersticker on their car. :) And, at the end of the day, that
would do no good at all. So I write about it. Others who write
slash, I know, do so in part for the same reason. Tolkien's society
is a perfect one for this, in many ways. The morality is based
closely on his own Christian morality, and the canon seems to
disfavor homosexuality much in the same way that our societal norms
do: even as people acknowledge that it might exist, they'd rather it
not. Or they'd rather not know if it does. Yet Elves and Men are
both humans. History and science converge to show that homosexuality
is normal behavior for humans, so why not Elves and Men? At the end
of the day, I feel better for writing my stories and, best case
scenario, maybe my writing will change just one person's mind. And
if each person changes one mind in turn, soon we have progress.

(What were you saying, Feta, about idealism? You're not alone in
that, you know. ;)

In the midst of all of this, slash writers bring their stories into
a community where there is a significant contingent that would
rather they not exist. Are these people homophobic? Not always, of
course not. But for one who sees homophobia too often in real life,
who has learned to look for it lurking in otherwise innocent remarks
and offhand comments, it's really hard not to suspect it when
someone enters the room practically shouting, "I don't read slash!"
or, when choosing the most important things about themselves to tell
a potential audience in a bio on an archive, decides that a dislike
of slash deserves a place front-and-center. And some people who
avoid slash are homophobic. And so it becomes a natural response
upon hearing that someone avoids slash to at least wonder, much in
the same way that I am more guarded around conservative Christians
than I am moderate Christians, atheists and agnostics, and people of
other faiths because the worst hate against GLBT people in my
country comes from conservative Christians. It does not mean that
being a conservative Christian automatically equates to homophobia--
I have conservative Christian friends online and off that thwart
that easy generalization--but I am more likely to pause and wonder,
just as I'm more likely to pause and wonder if a person declares, "I
don't read slash."

And maybe, if we lived in a society less tolerant of homophobia in
general, then there would be less difficulty with the assumption
that if we accept Elves and Men as _Homo sapiens_ just as we are,
then that makes it likely that a certain number of them were
homosexual or bisexual. Just as many of us have trouble accepting--
and indeed reject--beliefs about Elven behavior that seem contrary
to what one would expect from humans, it may be that mentioning in a
story that a character is gay might likewise pass unremarked upon
rather than be considered deserving of a warning or as a human
behavior that is nonetheless worthy of being AU.

But I can't know this for sure, of course. :)

For this reason, I think that avoiding slash will remain much more
controversial than an avoidance of, for example, AU or Hobbits, even
though some people avoiding slash may do so for the same reasons:
canon interpretation and just plain ol' preference. And I sympathize
with those who may end up lumped in with the wrong crowd just
because of what they like to read (or not), but I do think it's
worth remembering that some of us bring a lot of baggage with our
slash stories, completely unrelated to fandom. I think the important
thing is to both talk and listen in discussions like these. Which is
why I thank you all again for this one. :)

Dawn Felagund




~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1746704448-1213200292=:73758-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1988 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62721 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 16:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 16:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.178) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 16:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 16:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 16:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 16:26:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:26:15 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <564168.73758.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=FDLe-9CjLwQ_hkDWs14dNmeb-awxFAYDr8w7bA4ruDuAGBJM3XDE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > I have never seen any remarks by an SWG member on this forum = against slash so I guess I wondered where all of this sudden feeling that= 'everyone hates slash' was coming from within this group. I don't think = that any such sentiment is coming from within SWG. While people are entitl= ed to their opinions, the sort of vitriol expressed in that ff.net inciden= t you allude to simply isn't tolerated here. But I think that a lot of pe= ople bring experiences with them from other groups outside of ours. I mean= , I love our little group dearly and creating it was one of the best thing= s I've done, but we're *home* to very few people. Most people call other g= roups or sites their online homes. We've always been more like the coffee = shop on the corner where you can go to talk with other people who share yo= ur more bizarre interests like few people do at home ... but at the end o= f the day, you go home. So I think that people are bringing experiences an= d hurts from years in fandom in general to this discussion. Which can crea= te confusion since it seems their grievances are being aimed at people in = SWG when, in reality, no one in SWG might have those views at all. At lea= st, this is how I've perceived it. :) However, like I said, I think these = things are important to talk about. And that goes for you too, Alassante! = While I appreciate letting a reply mull for a while (I do this too), I don= 't want you to feel like you can't contribute here just because your views= are different from those in the majority ... or even mine! ;) Discussion= s don't accomplish much if everyone agrees. Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1989 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56078 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 16:31:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 16:31:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 16:31:35 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.39] (helo=elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1K6TEU-0006wC-O9 for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:31:34 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.pas.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:31:34 -0400 Message-ID: <8940848.1213201894650.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:31:34 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791e1cbf24affe51dc4a5c33bc9104784c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:2:2:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=wSDrgvprY9O4kWBvpC22Weq-yzqtjO-02Qn22le-quhUHh03xRuw X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 (delurking briefly).  I was wondering when someone was going to = mention the elephant.  I think it's precisely because some percentage = (but by no means all!) people who don't read slash are avoiding it purely f= or reasons of homophobia that the "pro versus anti" slash discussions gener= ally turn so nasty.  The discussions have real world implications that= simply aren't there for "pro versus anti" Hobbitfics/AUs/Crossovers/ etc.&= nbsp; No one thinks that readers who avoid Hobbit stories are doing so beca= use they can't stand short people, or people who avoid het stories have a p= roblem with real heterosexual relationships.  It's more obvious in tho= se cases that any aversion on the part of a reader to those fics is simply = a matter of idiosyncratic personal taste.  (I figure if writing Tolkie= n fanfiction had been popular in the days before the "Loving versus Virgini= a" Supreme Court case was decided,  people who made a point of proudly= announcing they  don't read fics with interspecies romance elements w= ould be looked upon by the writers of such stories with the same degree of = suspicion that slash writers currently direct towards vociferously anti-sl= ash readers - and for similar reasons.)

Ithilwen


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
Sent: Jun 11, 2008 11:22 AM
To: SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] The Elephant = in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al)

I first of all have to apo= logize for disappearing from the Internet
for the last day. On top of = my Internet being down at work for all
but the last half-hour of my da= y, we had violent storms in central
Maryland last night, so I was with= out power--and Internet--there
until late last night. Thanks again to = everyone for keeping the
discussion civil, not to mention thought-prov= oking, even though I
know that this is not the easiest of topics that = we are
discussing. :) Those of you waiting for replies on emails or fo= rum
posts (betas? >.<), I will get to it today.

Right b= efore I left work (and the online world!) yesterday, I saw
that Kei ha= d brought up what I have been thinking of, privately to
myself through= this whole discussion, as the elephant in the slash
discussion room. = To what extent does a dislike of slash (or
homosexuality in Tolkien's = stories) equate with homophobia?

I don't have an answer. I don't t= hink that there are any easy
answers. :) I will say that I know that *= some* abhorrence of slash
is motivated by homophobia. I don't think I'= ll find any arguments
here; it's pretty darned obvious when a person s= ays, "I don't think
that slash has any place in a world as beautiful a= s Tolkien's" that
they are homophobic, even if they claim _not_ to be = in the same
sentence. (Unfortunately, I am not making this example up.= I saw it
in the profile of someone on ff.net.)

I will also s= ay that I know that some people who won't read slash
are _not_ homopho= bic, because I once made this claim and was not
homophobic. At the tim= e, I wanted to read more stories that fitted
neatly into Tolkien's--th= at is, very canon-compliant--and had the
unfounded belief that ho= mosexuality was solidly not canon, based
largely on fanon and what I h= ad been told by others. As I learned
more, this view slowly changed. B= ut my point is not to defend my
choice then and my choice now but to p= oint out that my motivation
was very different from the motivation of = the "beautiful world"
woman in the example above, even though we would= have chosen to
avoid the same stories.

I can understand that= people who avoid slash because it doesn't fit
their canonical picture= of Tolkien's world and they like their
stories to stay true to canon = become frustrated and hurt by the
implication that they are homophobic= for their choice. This is a
terrible label to bear. (Even more terrib= le than the SWG slash
label. ;) At the same time, I can understand the= defensiveness of
slash writers where this is concerned. Unfortunately= , the two of
them are a volatile combination, and so you end up with a= ny
discussion of slash devolving into a flamewar and nothing gets
= accomplished except that the two sides eventually stop talking to
eac= h other. And that solves nothing.

About three years ago, two thing= s happened in my life that changed
my stance on slash. (I had been rea= ding it for about a year by then,
but I had not yet written it and did= not think it likely that I ever
would.) First, I asked one of my best= online friends to request a
story for her birthday in June. She reque= sted a slash pairing,
Feanor/Erestor to be exact. Secondly, my sister = came out to me that
she was bisexual. Not only was she bisexual, but s= he was in love
with a British bisexual woman and was going to leave he= r fiance over
it. Over the next few months, I wrote my slash novella f= or Alina,
and I was my sister's primary confidant as she went about te= lling
the people in her life that she was bisexual, fearing at every t= urn
that someone she cared about would refuse to accept her for who sh= e
was and she would lose that person in her life. The good news was that she and her girlfriend loved each other deeply and decided to
= get married. The bad news was that, though they wanted to marry and
li= ve in the US, same-sex marriage is not legal here (at least in
Marylan= d), so my sister would be moving to England. Even as I am
thankful eve= ry day that the UK is tolerant enough to allow them the
opportunity to= live as any other married couple, it was devastating
and maddening th= at the person my sister was not good enough for her
own country and th= at our family would be broken up because of it.

So even as the str= uggles that GLBT people face became a daily
reality for me because of = my sister, I was also learning what it was
like to be a slash writer. = Anyone who has read _By the Light of
Roses_, the novella that came out= of Alina's challenge to me, knows
that a lot of my frustration over t= he difficulties my sister was
facing show up in the story. I'm not sur= e if it's better or worse
for that but, at the least, it does show tha= t our lives and our
fiction sometimes entwine, even when our fiction t= akes place in a
world far from our own.

And here I come to my= point with all of this. (Finally, yes, I
know. :) When discussing fic= tion that tends to be discounted or
disregarded by a significant numbe= r of readers, it seems to me that
the most passionate defense comes fo= r slash fiction. Mary Sue, AU,
and others also get ignored by many rea= ders, but the most heated
discussions almost always focus on slash. Wh= y?

I think this is our reality and our fiction entwining. For many= of
us in this group, equal rights for GLBT people are still a long wa= y
from happening. This has touched many of us, more than just me,
= personally, I know. We watch our friends and our loved ones--or we
ou= rselves--struggle against a political and moral climate that hates
GLB= T people for who they are. It is at once heartbreaking and
infuriating= .

And, for me, strong emotions like that have only one solution: <= br> writing. Otherwise, I might violate my pacifism and kick the ass of the next person that I see with a Man + Woman =3D Marriage
bumpersti= cker on their car. :) And, at the end of the day, that
would do no goo= d at all. So I write about it. Others who write
slash, I know, do so i= n part for the same reason. Tolkien's society
is a perfect one for thi= s, in many ways. The morality is based
closely on his own Christian mo= rality, and the canon seems to
disfavor homosexuality much in the same= way that our societal norms
do: even as people acknowledge that it mi= ght exist, they'd rather it
not. Or they'd rather not know if it does.= Yet Elves and Men are
both humans. History and science converge to sh= ow that homosexuality
is normal behavior for humans, so why not Elves = and Men? At the end
of the day, I feel better for writing my stories a= nd, best case
scenario, maybe my writing will change just one person's= mind. And
if each person changes one mind in turn, soon we have progr= ess.

(What were you saying, Feta, about idealism? You're not alone= in
that, you know. ;)

In the midst of all of this, slash wri= ters bring their stories into
a community where there is a significant= contingent that would
rather they not exist. Are these people homopho= bic? Not always, of
course not. But for one who sees homophobia too of= ten in real life,
who has learned to look for it lurking in otherwise = innocent remarks
and offhand comments, it's really hard not to suspect= it when
someone enters the room practically shouting, "I don't read s= lash!"
or, when choosing the most important things about themselves to= tell
a potential audience in a bio on an archive, decides that a disl= ike
of slash deserves a place front-and-center. And some people who avoid slash are homophobic. And so it becomes a natural response
up= on hearing that someone avoids slash to at least wonder, much in
the s= ame way that I am more guarded around conservative Christians
than I a= m moderate Christians, atheists and agnostics, and people of
other fai= ths because the worst hate against GLBT people in my
country comes fro= m conservative Christians. It does not mean that
being a conservative = Christian automatically equates to homophobia--
I have conservative Chr= istian friends online and off that thwart
that easy generalization--but I am more likely to pause and wonder,
just as I'm more likely t= o pause and wonder if a person declares, "I
don't read slash."
And maybe, if we lived in a society less tolerant of homophobia in
g= eneral, then there would be less difficulty with the assumption
that i= f we accept Elves and Men as _Homo sapiens_ just as we are,
then that = makes it likely that a certain number of them were
homosexual or bisex= ual. Just as many of us have trouble accepting--
and indeed reject--bel= iefs about Elven behavior that seem contrary
to what one would expect = from humans, it may be that mentioning in a
story that a character is = gay might likewise pass unremarked upon
rather than be considered dese= rving of a warning or as a human
behavior that is nonetheless worthy o= f being AU.

But I can't know this for sure, of course. :)

= For this reason, I think that avoiding slash will remain much more
co= ntroversial than an avoidance of, for example, AU or Hobbits, even
tho= ugh some people avoiding slash may do so for the same reasons:
canon i= nterpretation and just plain ol' preference. And I sympathize
with tho= se who may end up lumped in with the wrong crowd just
because of what = they like to read (or not), but I do think it's
worth remembering that= some of us bring a lot of baggage with our
slash stories, completely = unrelated to fandom. I think the important
thing is to both talk and l= isten in discussions like these. Which is
why I thank you all again fo= r this one. :)

Dawn Felagund

=
From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1990 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60523 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 16:32:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 16:32:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 16:32:46 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d43.1d4e0764 (39332) for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:32:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:32:41 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213201961" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=_AifVvAAkyC1AN58mGZhKIIzLoDiq1BcV4hy0T1vJ9BuyJGJTRRG X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213201961 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/11/2008 11:27:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: So I think that people are bringing experiences and hurts from years in fandom in general to this discussion. I thought that the point of the discussion was fandom in general? Which can create confusion since it seems their grievances are being aimed at people in SWG when, in reality, no one in SWG might have those views at all. I post a lot on the SWG and try to help in other ways and I have never encountered a more comfortable or welcoming environment. Any point I made or any grievance I expressed about how slash-writers are treated was never aimed at the SWG. I have no idea about individual members' preferences or viewpoints except as they are expressed in such discussions. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213201961 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 6/11/2008 11:27:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writ= es:
So I think that people are brin= ging experiences and hurts from years
in fandom in general to this d= iscussion.
I thought that the point of the d= iscussion was fandom in general?
 
Which can create confusion since it seems their grievances = are being aimed at people in SWG
when, in reality, no one in SWG might= have those views at all.
<= /FONT> 
I post a lot on the SWG a= nd try to help in other ways and I have never encountered a more comfortab= le or welcoming environment. Any point I made or any grievance I= expressed about how slash-writers are treated was never aimed at the SWG.= I have no idea about individual members' preferences or viewpoints except= as they are expressed in such discussions.


Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife.= Cit= y's Best 2008.
-------------------------------1213201961-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1991 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22807 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 17:35:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 17:35:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 17:35:20 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D6E104040 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:35:19 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:35:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:35:18 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <556028861.20080611193518@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <564168.73758.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <564168.73758.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=XgOKVDoGxKelDjWsYV2_unlIOCgRxX1Wl4Jqg9-n2ohEQDyu8tc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante, Dawn, vanimore gorthaurion and SWG, A> Someone on this thread posted that fluff *squicked* them or they didn't A> read Het at all yet people seem to think thats not a personal A> attack on fluff and het writers but not liking slash is a personal A> attack. Either way - its the same thing.� It's strange for me that Gwidhiel feels she has to apologize people writing stories with spiders, IMO without a reason, really. While although I read slash I feel I need to stick a label of homophobe on myself. Well, but this is after Dawn's post. A> I have never seen any remarks by an SWG member on this forum against slash so I guess A> I wondered where all of this sudden feeling that 'everyone hates A> slash' was�coming from within this group. With new people who thought everywhere is the same as on FF.net. No it's not, nor SWG is an archive where only slash authors post. We used to respect each other here and I see no reason for changing that. If there is misunderstanding then best to explain it right away. v> I dislike bigotry intensely ( in any form ), so if people state they v> won't read slash since it goes against their beliefs, or world view v> then yes, I depreciate all bigoted people. ( Polite way of putting it, v> I feel contempt for any-one who is bigoted ) I refuse to accommodate v> them or recognize them, in RL or on the internet. (...) v> I won't make something palatable for people who do not agree with MM v> slash, their narrow mindedness is their problem. World is not that simple to say people who don't read or write slash are narrow minded. Bigotry. World is not black and white, gray scale is wide and in truth pure grey doesn't exist, there are many colors in it. To me your opinion is narrow minded and insulting to many intelligent, open people I know. DF> I will also say that I know that some people who won't read slash DF> are _not_ homophobic, because I once made this claim and was not Yet you said earlier that they are. How many people in this wide group = some people? As I said to vanimore above - it's unjust to many people I know who dislike slash in Tolkien's world. DF> As I learned homophobic. At the time, I wanted to read more stories that fitted DF> neatly into Tolkien's--that is, very canon-compliant--and had the DF> unfounded belief that homosexuality was solidly not canon, based DF> largely on fanon and what I had been told by others. The same goes for people who don't see place for slash in their view on what is canon. There is no canon book apart LotR for me. I wanted to respond Tinni's entry, but I can add it here in short - yes, Silmarillion is great fan fiction by Christopher, written in his father's spirit and with his father's ideals in mind. It doesn't mean it's what JRRT would make of it. Exact words of JRRT in HoME are more canonical, but when we say canon it's our interpretation of what is canon, especially regarding the Silmarillion. LotR is more clear case. In my interpretation of Tolkien's Neverland slash doesn't fit in canon. It's not important nor necessary to tale the story. This is not fanon, Dawn, but interpretation of canon. You may see Elves and Man being our mirror, to me it's Neverland not our Earth and Eldar aren't homo sapiens. Unless we introduce nanotechnology on Arda. Different destiny is not all what makes Quendi and Edain different. We're not in Tolkien's head to state what was his vision of homosexuality and maybe we should live it up to him. But what we know is "man + woman = family" for him. So I don't expect his ideal vision of human end up on "man + man = family". He left a little back entry in LACE ("ill choices or strange fates"), but that's free for interpretation, either. You try to compare it now with our reality and what science do know or don't about homosexuality, but canon of Arda is just fiction. Anyway because I don't see a place for slash in canon I must be homophobic. That's silly. I prefer man romance outside of Arda, be it in our crappy reality or in any other Neverland that suits it better. And at times I read slash in JRRT fan fiction, as any other stories exploring ideas that didn't fit into Tolkien's Arda. I label these AU, you may label it your canon, but don't generate opinions on homophobia based on that. D> I don't think I'll find any arguments here; it's pretty darned obvious when a person says, "I don't think D> that slash has any place in a world as beautiful as Tolkien's" that D> they are homophobic, even if they claim _not_ to be in the same D> sentence. (Unfortunately, I am not making this example up. I saw it D> in the profile of someone on ff.net.) Hmm, is it really homophobic? For this person beautiful world is when a man marries woman, they have kids and live happily ever after. Maybe that's her dream that slipped outside in such form. BTW, whatever I could say about Tolkien's world it is not beautiful, though it contains a lot of beauty. This world is tough and cruel, although Hobbits add to it's merriness and elves to it's charm. But there is no mercy, evil is horrible and mars goodness on every point if history. Good and evil are quite flat black and white, at least in first glance. Anyway I don't want to judge a person basing only on that sentence, maybe she's got some problems with gay people, maybe not. But I understand why you see it and are sensitive to sense any negativity against GLBT people. 3 other people posted in a meantime, I need to write faster. To finish. I don't feel insulted nor want any apologies, also didn't mean to insult anyone. I just want you all to remember that a single person does not represent a whole group, so a group should not be judged basing on a few individuals. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1992 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3290 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 18:03:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 18:03:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 18:03:27 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bc7.25e9cd6c (39332) for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:03:19 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213207399" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=qXusX13EI6SGhkqtk0k9cCNcnXDm8AVanVMxVNmc1xMm20O7CMvG X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213207399 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did not think Dawn's last post was inflammatory in any way. We will never agree on canon. At very least we may agree to recognize another's person's interest in, knowledge of it, or fondness for it. And we may perhaps even recognize the most flagrant lacks of interest in canon and huge holes in canon knowledge. That's about as far as we could come to an reaching a consensus. There is no right and only answer. I don't want argue about what people think is true canon and what is not. Canon is inspiration. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213207399 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I did not th= ink Dawn's last post was inflammatory in any way.
 <= /DIV>
We will never agree on canon. At very least we may agree to reco= gnize another's person's interest in, knowledge of it, or fondness fo= r it. And we may perhaps even recognize the most flagrant lacks of interes= t in canon and huge holes in canon knowledge. That's about as far as we co= uld come to an reaching a consensus. There is no right and only answer. I = don't want argue about what people think is true canon and what is not. Ca= non is inspiration.
 



Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008= .
-------------------------------1213207399-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1993 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60680 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 18:36:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 18:36:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.172) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 18:36:18 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 27so5277593wfd.5 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:36:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.105.13 with SMTP id d13mr60796wfc.275.1213209378219; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:36:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:36:18 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <556028861.20080611193518@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_18063_18458587.1213209378197" References: <564168.73758.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <556028861.20080611193518@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=4JSeubc4Gnf0UNVwHadTdz9_c6-I3AwCbHEKz0Wq8n56XrFTRX2i X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_18063_18458587.1213209378197-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1994 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10425 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 19:14:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 19:14:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 19:14:25 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 19:14:25 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 19:14:25 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:14:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <556028861.20080611193518@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="4-8636194737-8324329773=:0" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=263259123; y=pBz9P1Kx68eZcQSvMnnxR87C0fU5UAlfSl38nsoR18EhWms X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel --4-8636194737-8324329773=:0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Sirielle, --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wrote: > It's strange for me that Gwidhiel feels she has to a= pologize people > writing stories with spiders, IMO without a reason, reall= y. Oops, I guess the irony I intended didn't come through there. Sorry! I= was trying to imagine myself making a profile in which I explicitly state = my reading preferences, in particular things I would not read; which in all= truth for me would be spiders. And since there might well be someone who = has written a very articulate and interesting story about, say, Shelob, tha= t author might feel hurt to know that my arachnophobia would keep me away f= rom her story. Thus, the apology -- although it was a bit tongue-in-cheek,= on the other hand the larger point of my post is that it seems to me that = while I shouldn't have to justify my preferences, phobias, etc. to anyone, = I also don't need to state them up front, as though that's the first thing = someone needs to know about me (and thus implying, especially to someone wh= o's already sensitive about their writing, that anyone who has written a sp= ider story should feel ashamed of themselves -- nooooo!). --4-8636194737-8324329773=:0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Sirielle,

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirie= lle wrote:

> It's strange for me that Gwi= dhiel feels she has to apologize people
> writing stories with spider= s, IMO without a reason, really.

Oops, I guess the irony I inte= nded didn't come through there. Sorry! 

I was trying to imagin= e myself making a profile in which I explicitly state my reading preference= s, in particular things I would not read; which in all truth for me would b= e spiders.  And since there might well be someone who has written a ve= ry articulate and interesting story about, say, Shelob, that author might f= eel hurt to know that my arachnophobia would keep me away from her story.&n= bsp; Thus, the apology -- although it was a bit tongue-in-cheek, on the oth= er hand the larger point of my post is that it seems to me that while I sho= uldn't have to justify my preferences, phobias, etc. to anyone, I also don'= t need to state them up front, as though that's the first thing someone nee= ds to know about me (and thus implying, especially to someone who's already= sensitive about their writing, that anyone who has written a spider story = should feel ashamed of themselves -- nooooo!).
--4-8636194737-8324329773=:0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1995 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97169 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 19:40:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 19:40:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.191) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 19:40:14 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 19:40:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 19:40:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 19:40:14 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:40:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <556028861.20080611193518@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wHd-QMEiI3GkFNK_zjjXt-gHReueIdRQHjVDS7TuBsjX26UdpAa4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund I agree with Oshun that going down the "this is canon!" "no it's not!" roa= d is fated to turn out poorly. :) For each one of us in this group is a di= fferent definition of canon, and there are no easy answers. But I do want = to add some clarifications to Sirielle's post, being clear this time that = these are my opinions and I don't expect any of you to share in them. ;) = --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle w= rote: > It's strange for me that Gwidhiel feels she has to apologize people= > writing stories with spiders, IMO without a reason, really. I got the i= mpression that Gwidhiel's apology was meant tongue in cheek ... > In my i= nterpretation of Tolkien's Neverland slash doesn't fit in canon. It's > no= t important nor necessary to tale the story. This is not fanon, > Dawn, but= interpretation of canon. You may see Elves and Man being our > mirror, to= me it's Neverland not our Earth and Eldar aren't homo > sapiens. Because = you consider only LotR to be canon, then that is perfectly understandable.= My own view allows me to work in details from the Silm, HoMe, UT, CoH, t= he Letters ... wherever I find what I analyze and determine that JRRT like= ly viewed as a fact about his world. Of course, this analysis is far from = perfect ... but it's fun. :) With regards to Elves and Men being the same = species as us, in Letter 153 to Peter Hastings, JRRT writes, "Elves and Me= n are evidently in biological terms one race, or they could not breed and = produce fertile offspring," which is the most basic definition of a speci= es. With regards to Men being *our* ancestors, we have the whole concept o= f a mariner from the Middle Ages--Aelfwine--coming to Tol Eressea to colle= ct the legends that form JRRT's legendarium. So, if one considers all of t= hese other sources, it is easy to argue that Elves, Men, and modern humans= are all the same species ... and prone to the same behaviors, then, as we= ll. Therefore, if one defines canon in this way (as I do), then it is diff= icult to argue that homosexuality--a human behavior that exists across cul= tures and history--is not possible among this very human population. I re= cognize that not everyone prefers to look at canon like this. It destroys = the magic for some. :) But it is a legitimate interpretation, and I hesita= te then to label concepts borne of it as AU. > We're not in > Tolkien's h= ead to state what was his vision of homosexuality and maybe > we should li= ve it up to him. But what we know is "man + woman =3D family" for > him. S= o I don't expect his ideal vision of human end up on "man + man =3D > fami= ly". But reality in a world--even a fictional one!--need not correspond d= irectly to the beliefs of it's creator. I hate to drag the food analogies = out again, but some of my strongest beliefs are vegetarianism, respect for= the earth, and equal consideration for non-human species. These ideas, in= many ways, define who I am much as Tolkien's Catholicism defined a good b= it of who he was. Saying that my original novels become as wildly popular = as Tolkien's and people are discussing fanfic based on them on a mailing l= ist after my death, someone might be labeled as "uncanonical" for having = a character hunt and consume meat. It is known, after all, that these are = things that I oppose. However, in my fictional world, characters *do* eat = meat. They do hunt. They do things that I necessarily would not simply bec= ause the reality is that human-like creatures will sit at the top of the f= ood chain, will get hungry, and will learn to hunt and cook meat. Again, w= e see that across cultures and across history. Or ... some humans will be = heterosexual, some will be homosexual, and others will be a bit of both. = Or none at all. :) My point is that it's wholly possible that, if question= ed about it, JRRT would have answered, unequivocally, that homosexuality w= ould _not_ exist on Arda. But he didn't. So if I accept Elves and Men as h= umans, and I accept homosexuality as a normal behavior for humans, then, l= acking explicit word from the original creator otherwise, then I assume th= at some Elves and Men also would have been homosexuals. Again, that is my= interpretation, based on using a variety of resources as my canon. Just c= onsidering LotR as canon, of course, you don't necessarily have this kind = of flexibility. > D> I don't think I'll find any arguments here; it's pret= ty darned obvious when a person says, "I don't think > D> that slash has a= ny place in a world as beautiful as Tolkien's" that > D> they are homopho= bic, even if they claim _not_ to be in the same > D> sentence. (Unfortunate= ly, I am not making this example up. I saw it > D> in the profile of someo= ne on ff.net.) > > Hmm, is it really homophobic? For this person beautiful= world is when > a man marries woman, they have kids and live happily ever= after. Well, what I see when I see that statement is this: Tolkien's wor= ld is beautiful. Homosexuality has no place in Tolkien's world because Tolk= ien's world is beautiful. Therefore, homosexuality must be ugly. I can't = _not_ see that as homophobic. If I made the same statement, "I don't think= that Black people have any place in Tolkien's world because Tolkien's wor= ld is a beautiful place," that is terribly racist. Or: "I don't think that= disabled people have any place in Tolkien's world because Tolkien's world= is a beautiful place." Again, offensive. Why is it different when we call= GLBT people too ugly for a place in the world? Again, if your interpreta= tion of canon doesn't allow for it, that's one thing. But excluding a grou= p of people from a canon because one finds them "ugly" is homophobic to me= , period. Dawn F. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1996 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21997 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 19:53:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 19:53:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 19:53:45 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F019458094 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:53:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:53:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:53:43 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1131440335.20080611215343@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <564168.73758.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <556028861.20080611193518@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Apologies & clarification X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=e1npV5sIDjxx0Nweaa4-DpcT_UzGbVCow-NbXxsGVrHcfTLw8PU X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, we've talked about it already in private, but I need to clear that misunderstanding to the group. DF> I would like you to go back and find the post where I said DF> that anyone who won't read slash must be homophobic. You didn't say it, you said "some people" and I've red it as generally "people", skipping the word "some". Please accept my apologies, that was unjust reaction on my side. Now I overreacted. In fact I agree that some people who don't like the idea of slash are homophobic, especially those who engage in the witch hunts and holy crusades against slash fiction and it's followers. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1997 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97555 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 20:02:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 20:02:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.29) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 20:02:01 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 5so1567526ywh.75 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:02:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.12.10 with SMTP id 10mr361060wal.190.1213214519506; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:01:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:01:59 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1131440335.20080611215343@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_38618_6278350.1213214519497" References: <564168.73758.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <556028861.20080611193518@tlen.pl> <1131440335.20080611215343@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Apologies & clarification X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rMznQkD5wCbrmRxNutipRtq7qwXLRaDaZRnwCPw7HWH5uotxdabQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_38618_6278350.1213214519497-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1998 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59837 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2008 20:54:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2008 20:54:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.131) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2008 20:54:29 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 20:54:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 20:54:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2008 20:54:28 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:54:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9-7889684104-5941277823=:6" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=B1EJjHFLBJRC2tQOk0hC68Z8JqvjbfIKEwqAQ_XNS09a2zCQUA X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --9-7889684104-5941277823=:6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think what it comes down to is that nothing is exactly canon unless Tolk= ien said it outright. We can try to interpret him as a person and base our= writings upon things he believe he would approve of (or, for that matter, = things he might not have), but I don't think anyone has the right to say th= at *their* interpretation of Tolkien is the correct one, and everyone else = is wrong, unless they can find an instance of him specifically stating that= something was true. This goes for everyone. We can all interpret however= we like, and we may all be wrong. And it's interesting to see different p= eople's versions, but why insist that one idea is absolutely right unless i= t's undeniable fact? People want to think their beliefs are the right ones= . For example, last year I showed my creative writing teacher a novella I = had written. He read through it, and insisted that I had based the whole t= hing off of Alice in Wonderland (which I haven't even read). I explained t= o him that I had actually based it off of my own life. What did he say? H= e said no, I hadn't, it was obviously about Alice in Wonderland, and he was= right, never mind that I was the writer and I'm pretty sure I know more ab= out my own writings than a reader does. The same goes for Tolkien. If he = were alive and I was sitting with him, reading over a draft of the Silm, an= d asked him, "Are *** and *** lovers?" or "Were you trying to portray a the= me of ***?" and he had said "No," well, what kind of person disputes that? = What the author says goes. Did Tolkien come out and say "my characters ar= e gay" or "my characters are not gay"? Not that I've ever heard of. And w= ithout the word of the author, well, we're just never going to know for sur= e. And what does that mean? It means that no one is right, and no one is = wrong. It means that we can believe whatever we like, and it means that th= ere's no use trying to force your views on anyone, because they're just as = likely to be right as you are. Wow, that was quite a ramble. I believe I = might have not made much sense. Sorry. --9-7889684104-5941277823=:6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I think what it comes down to is that nothing is = exactly canon unless Tolkien said it outright.  We can tr= y to interpret him as a person and base our writings upon things he believe= he would approve of (or, for that matter, things he might not have), but I= don't think anyone has the right to say that *their* interpretation of Tol= kien is the correct one, and everyone else is wrong, unless they can find a= n instance of him specifically stating that something was true. = This goes for everyone.  We can all interpret how= ever we like, and we may all be wrong.  And it's interest= ing to see different people's versions, but why insist that one idea is abs= olutely right unless it's undeniable fact?

Pe= ople want to think their beliefs are the right ones.  For= example, last year I showed my creative writing teacher a novella I had wr= itten.  He read through it, and insisted that I had based= the whole thing off of Alice in Wonderland (which I = haven't even read).  I explained to him that I had actual= ly based it off of my own life.  What did he say?&n= bsp; He said no, I hadn't, it was obviously about Alice in Wonderland, and he was right, never mind that I was the writer= and I'm pretty sure I know more about my own writings than a reader does.<= span>  The same goes for Tolkien.  If he were= alive and I was sitting with him, reading over a draft of the Silm, and as= ked him, "Are *** and *** lovers?" or "Were you trying to portray a theme o= f ***?" and he had said "No," well, what kind of person disputes that?  What the author says goes.

Did Tolkien come out and say "my characters are gay" or "my char= acters are not gay"?  Not that I've ever heard of.&= nbsp; And without the word of the author, well, we're just never goi= ng to know for sure.

And what d= oes that mean?  It means that no one is right, and no one= is wrong.  It means that we can believe whatever we like= , and it means that there's no use trying to force your views on anyone, be= cause they're just as likely to be right as you are.

Wow, that was quite a ramble.  I believ= e I might have not made much sense.  Sorry.

--9-7889684104-5941277823=:6-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1999 Return-Path: X-Sender: gwidhiel@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50235 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2008 17:02:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2008 17:02:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.112) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2008 17:02:29 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2008 17:02:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2008 17:02:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2008 17:02:29 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:02:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Gwidhiel" Subject: Looking for a Morgoth/Eru story X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=349300220; y=qJ1gTF_LzvmUtDunFynfXjMoRHwnSdZyAQyXskEi_7p8ri4 X-Yahoo-Profile: gwidhiel Hi everyone, More than a year ago (at least) I read a very interesting sho= rt piece that was IIRC basically a conversation between Eru and Melkor/Morg= oth. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it, who wrote it, or w= hat it was called (I know: helpful!). Might anyone here have any ideas? T= hanks! -Gwidhiel From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72226 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2008 02:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2008 02:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2008 02:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 02:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 02:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 02:42:14 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 02:42:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=h2v2mhvqKMZTbBl-oQK15UAg36rjutA22Aijk1LfHuRWKFCDWPjPSvtN8Q X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked I wasn't going to reply to this thread but after much consideration I felt= that I must point something out. Dislike of slash is Tolkien fandom or ev= en fandom in general is not necessarily an indication of homophobia. There= are a lot of different reasons why people might dislike slash in Tolkien = fandom. There is the general quality of slash (very poor), there is the fa= ct that one or both the characters concerned become horrible out of charac= ter when placed in the slash setting and the one that really peeves me off= is slash stories that break of canonical het couples for the purpose of s= lash. I am sorry I don't want to read Aragorn/anyone. I don't think it ma= kes me homophobic or even anti-slash, I mean I love Maedhros/Fingon and am= always looking for good Maedhros/Fingon stories and Legolas/one of the tw= ins is always entertaining. I used to like Legolas/Glorfindel but I am kin= d of over Glorfindel slash. I also do not care for Legolas/Gimli slash and= this for a reason I think many people don't approve of slash in Tolkien f= andom. In many cases the close relationship that people extrapolate into s= lash are just deep friendship. As is the case with Frodo/Sam and I must ad= mit Maedhros/Fingon. These people were friends and it was their friendshi= p that made them do the things they did for each other. It would not have = occurred to Tolkien that some of the things he was writing could be consid= ered to have "homosexual undertones" and he certainly didn't put any there= deleberately. And it does bother people that in today's society deep frie= ndship is not understood and instead turned into slash. I mean, as much a= s I like Maedhros/Fingon slash I am not deluding myself by thinking Tolkie= n intended them to be interpreted as lovers. Indeed, in real life it is mo= re likely to be our friends that stand by us when we are sick and down on = our luck then our lovers. Tolkien clearly understood the power of "mateshi= p" as they call it here in Australia. So yes, I don't think a persons li= ke or dislike of slash is any indication of their attitude towards homosex= uality. In some cases, sure they are homophobic, but more likely then not = it probably has more to do with the quality of slash fanfiction, their sta= nce on canon and their interpretation of the characters that are being sl= ashed. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" = wrote: > > I first of all have to apologize for disappea= ring from the Internet > for the last day. On top of my Internet being dow= n at work for all > but the last half-hour of my day, we had violent storm= s in central > Maryland last night, so I was without power--and Internet--= there > until late last night. Thanks again to everyone for keeping the >= discussion civil, not to mention thought-provoking, even though I > know = that this is not the easiest of topics that we are > discussing. :) Those = of you waiting for replies on emails or forum > posts (betas? >.<), I will= get to it today. > > Right before I left work (and the online world!) yes= terday, I saw > that Kei had brought up what I have been thinking of, priv= ately to > myself through this whole discussion, as the elephant in the sl= ash > discussion room. To what extent does a dislike of slash (or > homos= exuality in Tolkien's stories) equate with homophobia? > > I don't have an= answer. I don't think that there are any easy > answers. :) I will say th= at I know that *some* abhorrence of slash > is motivated by homophobia. I = don't think I'll find any arguments > here; it's pretty darned obvious whe= n a person says, "I don't think > that slash has any place in a world as b= eautiful as Tolkien's" that > they are homophobic, even if they claim _not= _ to be in the same > sentence. (Unfortunately, I am not making this examp= le up. I saw it > in the profile of someone on ff.net.) > > I will also s= ay that I know that some people who won't read slash > are _not_ homophobi= c, because I once made this claim and was not > homophobic. At the time, I= wanted to read more stories that fitted > neatly into Tolkien's--that is,= very canon-compliant--and had the > unfounded belief that homosexuality w= as solidly not canon, based > largely on fanon and what I had been told by= others. As I learned > more, this view slowly changed. But my point is no= t to defend my > choice then and my choice now but to point out that my mo= tivation > was very different from the motivation of the "beautiful world"= > woman in the example above, even though we would have chosen to > avoi= d the same stories. > > I can understand that people who avoid slash becau= se it doesn't fit > their canonical picture of Tolkien's world and they li= ke their > stories to stay true to canon become frustrated and hurt by the= > implication that they are homophobic for their choice. This is a > ter= rible label to bear. (Even more terrible than the SWG slash > label. ;) At= the same time, I can understand the defensiveness of > slash writers wher= e this is concerned. Unfortunately, the two of > them are a volatile combi= nation, and so you end up with any > discussion of slash devolving into a = flamewar and nothing gets > accomplished except that the two sides eventua= lly stop talking to > each other. And that solves nothing. > > About thre= e years ago, two things happened in my life that changed > my stance on sl= ash. (I had been reading it for about a year by then, > but I had not yet= written it and did not think it likely that I ever > would.) First, I as= ked one of my best online friends to request a > story for her birthday in= June. She requested a slash pairing, > Feanor/Erestor to be exact. Second= ly, my sister came out to me that > she was bisexual. Not only was she bis= exual, but she was in love > with a British bisexual woman and was going t= o leave her fiance over > it. Over the next few months, I wrote my slash = novella for Alina, > and I was my sister's primary confidant as she went a= bout telling > the people in her life that she was bisexual, fearing at ev= ery turn > that someone she cared about would refuse to accept her for who= she > was and she would lose that person in her life. The good news was = > that she and her girlfriend loved each other deeply and decided to > get= married. The bad news was that, though they wanted to marry and > live in= the US, same-sex marriage is not legal here (at least in > Maryland), so = my sister would be moving to England. Even as I am > thankful every day th= at the UK is tolerant enough to allow them the > opportunity to live as an= y other married couple, it was devastating > and maddening that the person= my sister was not good enough for her > own country and that our family w= ould be broken up because of it. > > So even as the struggles that GLBT pe= ople face became a daily > reality for me because of my sister, I was also= learning what it was > like to be a slash writer. Anyone who has read _B= y the Light of > Roses_, the novella that came out of Alina's challenge to= me, knows > that a lot of my frustration over the difficulties my sister = was > facing show up in the story. I'm not sure if it's better or worse >= for that but, at the least, it does show that our lives and our > fiction= sometimes entwine, even when our fiction takes place in a > world far fro= m our own. > > And here I come to my point with all of this. (Finally, yes= , I > know. :) When discussing fiction that tends to be discounted or > d= isregarded by a significant number of readers, it seems to me that > the m= ost passionate defense comes for slash fiction. Mary Sue, AU, > and others= also get ignored by many readers, but the most heated > discussions almos= t always focus on slash. Why? > > I think this is our reality and our fict= ion entwining. For many of > us in this group, equal rights for GLBT peopl= e are still a long way > from happening. This has touched many of us, more= than just me, > personally, I know. We watch our friends and our loved on= es--or we > ourselves--struggle against a political and moral climate that= hates > GLBT people for who they are. It is at once heartbreaking and >= infuriating. > > And, for me, strong emotions like that have only one sol= ution: > writing. Otherwise, I might violate my pacifism and kick the ass = of > the next person that I see with a Man + Woman =3D Marriage > bumpers= ticker on their car. :) And, at the end of the day, that > would do no goo= d at all. So I write about it. Others who write > slash, I know, do so in = part for the same reason. Tolkien's society > is a perfect one for this, i= n many ways. The morality is based > closely on his own Christian morality= , and the canon seems to > disfavor homosexuality much in the same way tha= t our societal norms > do: even as people acknowledge that it might exist,= they'd rather it > not. Or they'd rather not know if it does. Yet Elves = and Men are > both humans. History and science converge to show that homo= sexuality > is normal behavior for humans, so why not Elves and Men? At th= e end > of the day, I feel better for writing my stories and, best case >= scenario, maybe my writing will change just one person's mind. And > if e= ach person changes one mind in turn, soon we have progress. > > (What were= you saying, Feta, about idealism? You're not alone in > that, you know. ;= ) > > In the midst of all of this, slash writers bring their stories into = > a community where there is a significant contingent that would > rather= they not exist. Are these people homophobic? Not always, of > course not.= But for one who sees homophobia too often in real life, > who has learned= to look for it lurking in otherwise innocent remarks > and offhand comme= nts, it's really hard not to suspect it when > someone enters the room pra= ctically shouting, "I don't read slash!" > or, when choosing the most impo= rtant things about themselves to tell > a potential audience in a bio on = an archive, decides that a dislike > of slash deserves a place front-and-c= enter. And some people who > avoid slash are homophobic. And so it becomes= a natural response > upon hearing that someone avoids slash to at least w= onder, much in > the same way that I am more guarded around conservative C= hristians > than I am moderate Christians, atheists and agnostics, and peo= ple of > other faiths because the worst hate against GLBT people in my >= country comes from conservative Christians. It does not mean that > being= a conservative Christian automatically equates to homophobia-- > I have co= nservative Christian friends online and off that thwart > that easy genera= lization--but I am more likely to pause and wonder, > just as I'm more lik= ely to pause and wonder if a person declares, "I > don't read slash." > = > And maybe, if we lived in a society less tolerant of homophobia in > gen= eral, then there would be less difficulty with the assumption > that if we= accept Elves and Men as _Homo sapiens_ just as we are, > then that makes = it likely that a certain number of them were > homosexual or bisexual. Jus= t as many of us have trouble accepting-- > and indeed reject--beliefs about= Elven behavior that seem contrary > to what one would expect from humans,= it may be that mentioning in a > story that a character is gay might lik= ewise pass unremarked upon > rather than be considered deserving of a warn= ing or as a human > behavior that is nonetheless worthy of being AU. > > = But I can't know this for sure, of course. :) > > For this reason, I think= that avoiding slash will remain much more > controversial than an avoidan= ce of, for example, AU or Hobbits, even > though some people avoiding sla= sh may do so for the same reasons: > canon interpretation and just plain o= l' preference. And I sympathize > with those who may end up lumped in wit= h the wrong crowd just > because of what they like to read (or not), but I= do think it's > worth remembering that some of us bring a lot of baggage = with our > slash stories, completely unrelated to fandom. I think the imp= ortant > thing is to both talk and listen in discussions like these. Which= is > why I thank you all again for this one. :) > > Dawn Felagund > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57423 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2008 04:00:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2008 04:00:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.168) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2008 04:00:02 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 27so4395655wfd.4 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:00:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.215.5 with SMTP id n5mr1385578wfg.61.1213416002046; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:00:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:00:02 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_26139_27559196.1213416002081" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=gP2cYXRGR8FeiDuSj9GvfeR0ml26BYubXumZOEvx22DdkNpYYygv X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_26139_27559196.1213416002081-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54821 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2008 06:28:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2008 06:28:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.33) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2008 06:28:26 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 06:28:26 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 06:28:26 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 06:28:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room (was: Ratings et al) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=qXxLAd5Ep4gjI1siTUm7OADC7qvjEvId6r-X350NLE6i5Eup9wS5bXc0Yg X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Speaking of vitriol, I would like to point out that more then slash writer= s, writers of het fanfiction that happen to have an OFC are even more abus= ed. Now don't get me wrong. Just like the general quality of slash writin= g... requires a certain amount of umm.... let's go with suspension of disb= elief, a large majority of OFC are in fact Mary- sues whose existence in th= e story is justified by her sucking life and abilities of the characters a= round her. However, an OFC is not automatically a "mary-sue" which really = is a derogatory term for a female character that's a Master of all trades = in a way that defies belief that transcends fanfiction (Xena warrior princ= ess anyone?). But people give OFC/Tolkien character even less chance then = slash pairings in Tolkien. Now we can't really claim that OFC/Tolkien cha= racter stories suffer from a heterophobia but it obviously suffers from Ma= ry-sue-phobia. I for one find the general lack of a fair go given to OFCs = a little creatively stifling. I mean, in my current story I will have a fe= w OFCs. One got introduced in the first section of the first chapter. The= re I mentioned that her hair colour was red. My beta reader correctly call= ed me on it and pointed out "dwelling on hair colour is considered a sign = of a Mary-sue". As I said she is absolutely right and I have no doubt a fe= w people stopped reading as soon as I said she had red hair. But I had to = say she had red hair, it's significant, very significant and significance = becomes quite clear in chapter 2. But most people wouldn't get to chapter = 2! They would go, "Oh OFC with red hair pfft another Mary-sue I am going t= o stop reading now", which is so unfair! The above also raises an import= ant question, what would antagonise readers more an OFC or a slash pairing= . My experience suggests that slash is more tolerated then OFCs. Other's o= f course might have had different experiences. --- In SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Total= ly agreed, Tinni! I think it's unfortunate that a few homophobic > slash-h= aters--like the "beautiful world" woman in my post--have caused that > lab= el to be stuck upon all who simply have a *preference* or simply aren't > = ready to try a particular type of story yet (as I think Feta and maybe > S= irelle as well pointed out a ways back about fandom newbies). Yet I can > = understand the guardedness that slash writers feel at the same time, > part= icularly given the amount and volume of vitriol that is sometimes > direct= ed at them, and I think that those who simply prefer to avoid slash > coul= d make life a lot easier for themselves by not broadcasting it the > momen= t that they walk into a room. 100% opinion here, of course ... ;) > > Daw= n > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Tinni wrot= e: > > > I wasn't going to reply to this thread but after much consider= ation I > > felt that I must point something out. Dislike of slash is Tolki= en > > fandom or even fandom in general is not necessarily an indication o= f > > homophobia. > > > > > > > > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > = www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27269 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2008 06:45:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2008 06:45:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2008 06:45:10 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cdb.33a3b694 (33856) for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 02:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 02:45:04 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213425904" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=JTBjSjv1dn4sRpQELZJPuYitFcVMsl5FGDayXtkjDRIOyUqKEMp1 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213425904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/14/2008 1:28:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com writes: The above also raises an important question, what would antagonise readers more an OFC or a slash pairing. My experience suggests that slash is more tolerated then OFCs. Other's of course might have had different experiences. Slash more tolerated than OFCs: speaking from personal experience, I have found exactly the opposite. I have a work-in-progress, het romance which features what many would consider a Mary Sue (not an OFC, but a character that is nothing but a footnote, with a name and a marriage partner, in the Appendices to LOTR). While it has received some criticism (specifically for the Mary Sue qualities of its principal), it largely has been well-received and won a Second place as an WIP in the MEFAs in one of the most competitive categories. It also has several tens of thousands of page clicks compared to the dozens for some of my slash stories, which IMO were decently written and plotted. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213425904 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/14/2008 1:28:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, sharminchoudhury@yahoo= .com writes:
The above also raises an i= mportant question, what would antagonise
readers more an OFC or a sl= ash pairing. My experience suggests that
slash is more tolerated the= n OFCs. Other's of course might have had
different experiences.
<= /FONT>
Slash more tolerated than OFCs:&= nbsp;speaking from personal experience, I have found exactly the opposite.= I have a work-in-progress, het romance which features what many would con= sider a Mary Sue (not an OFC, but a character that is nothing but a footno= te, with a name and a marriage partner, in the Appendices to LOT= R). While it has received some criticism (specifically= for the Mary Sue qualities of its principal), it largely has been we= ll-received and won a Second place as an WIP in the MEFAs in one of the mo= st competitive categories. It also has several tens of thousands of p= age clicks compared to the dozens for some of my slash stories, = which IMO were decently written and plotted.


Vote for your city's best dining and nightl= ife. City's Best 2008.
-------------------------------1213425904-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16104 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2008 07:37:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2008 07:37:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.140) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2008 07:37:33 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.90] by n13.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 07:37:32 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 07:37:32 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 07:37:32 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:37:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=8k33WRhmXOJIFB51G5wTe8dFRHC1QEu5xPTtxA_kwfcCMQ-SsRX8lWLFpQ X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Firstly, the character you described is not a Mary-sue by my definition. S= econdly, you used a female character that Tolkien named. Didn't develop gr= anted, but then he didn't really develop most of his female characters. So= really the fact that you she was only a name with a marriage partner in t= he appendices of LOTR doesn't really matter. She was still a Tolkien chara= cter. I mean seriously Elrond/Celebrian is not going to be treated the sam= e as Legolas/Aina, where Aina is a female character I made up. We can't r= eally compare Elrond/Celebrian to slash fics because even though she wasn'= t developed at all by Tolkien Celebrian remains a Tolkien character AND El= rond/Celebrian is canonically accurate. As such will always be treated bet= ter then Elrond/Glorfindel or Elrond/some other male character. No, what = I am asking is what do you think would attract more bile. Elladan/Legolas = or Elladan/OFC where the OFC is just that, an original female character th= at is reasonably well written from the mind of a fandom author. My experie= nce is that Elladan/Legolas have websites, fan groups and other things ded= icated to them. While Legolas/OFC get religated to the dark corners of fan= dom, while author's who write Legolas/OFC get accused of self-insertion an= d flamed to death. -Tinni PS. I would like to point out tha Elladan too = is largely a name in LOTR but no one would say Elladan was a Marty-sam. = > > > Slash more tolerated than OFCs: speaking from personal experience,= I have > found exactly the opposite. I have a work-in-progress, het rom= ance which > features what many would consider a Mary Sue (not an OFC, b= ut a character that is > nothing but a footnote, with a name and a marri= age partner, in the Appendices > to LOTR). While it has received some cr= iticism (specifically for the Mary Sue > qualities of its principal), it= largely has been well-received and won a > Second place as an WIP in th= e MEFAs in one of the most competitive categories. > It also has several= tens of thousands of page clicks compared to the dozens > for some of m= y slash stories, which IMO were decently written and plotted. > > > >= **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best= > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=3Daolacg00050000000102) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18080 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2008 08:04:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2008 08:04:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2008 08:04:56 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bd5.313c5a47 (33856) for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:04:50 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213430690" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=gitiFCD8NbUCI0Uz49PflkLR_e0ueSQg7woww8dLdX19QdKggym5 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213430690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/14/2008 2:37:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com writes: My experience is that Elladan/Legolas have websites, fan groups and other things dedicated to them. While Legolas/OFC get religated to the dark corners of fandom, while author's who write Legolas/OFC get accused of self-insertion and flamed to death. Without doing any research I recall that one very good writer, got some the highest scores ever in the MEFAs last year for different Legolas/OFC and Thranduil/OFC pieces. On the other hand an excellent slash story that I had nominated and was very excited about got only a few votes. It had an all-canon cast of characters, no forced pairings or breaking up of canon couples, was well-plotted, well-constructed, and had well-developed characterization and an interesting and original examination of its political and historical setting. There were at least a couple of other stories, also slash, which would be on my personal top ten list of best fanfics ever, regardless of genre or fandom, by a well-respected writer, that did not do well either. I would interested in actually calculating, using a large, popular site like HASA, which has no restrictions on posting, and seeing the actual figures on which stories get reviewed and which don't. I might find that I am completely wrong. What I am stating above are my own necessarily narrow, anecdotal examples, but ones which hit me in between the eyes and, frankly, shocked me. **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213430690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 6/14/2008 2:37:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com w= rites:
My experience is that Elladan/Le= golas have websites, fan groups and other things dedicated to them. Whil= e Legolas/OFC get religated to the dark corners of fandom, while author'= s who write Legolas/OFC get accused of self-insertion and flamed to deat= h.
Without doing any research I recall that o= ne very good writer, got some the highest scores ever in the MEFAs last ye= ar for different Legolas/OFC and Thranduil/OFC pieces.
 <= /DIV>
On the other hand an excellent slash story that I had nomin= ated and was very excited about got only a few votes. It had an = all-canon cast of characters, no forced pairings or breaking up of canon c= ouples, was well-plotted, well-constructed, and had well-develop= ed characterization and an interesting and original examination of it= s political and historical setting. There were at least a couple= of other stories, also slash, which would be on my personal top ten = list of best fanfics ever, regardless of genre or fandom, by a well-respec= ted writer, that did not do well either.
 
I w= ould interested in actually calculating, using a large, popular site like = HASA, which has no restrictions on posting, and seeing the actual figures = on which stories get reviewed and which don't. I might find that I am compl= etely wrong. What I am stating above are my own necessarily narrow, anecdo= tal examples, but ones which hit me in between the eyes and, frankly, shoc= ked me.



Vo= te for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. -------------------------------1213430690-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 975 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2008 08:56:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2008 08:56:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n28a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.246) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2008 08:56:09 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n28.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 08:56:09 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 08:56:09 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 08:56:09 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 08:56:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=7y0cDuoc-EFnURPGMLEu1g83ftCy1Pe-rTWK7EzLGbYf4fqZ36ETBpisjw X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Interestingly enough I was just reading this artile: http://www.weeklystan= dard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/215h pooz.asp that speculates = on why Barack Obama consistently loses white middle and lower class vote a= nd why he is unlikly to win the general election and after I read you post= I could see a clear parallel between what the article was talking about a= nd we we are talking about here. Basically according to the article it's = not that Obama is black that's costing him the vote but the fact that he i= s a thinker, a pacifist who isn't about to bomb anyone to hell. Certainly = racisim is a factor but not nearly as big one as people think. Which brin= gs be to the topic of anti-OFC and anti-slash. Now here is the thing you c= an be "anti-OFC" and your are just that "anti-OFC". However, without being= anti-slash you can be anti-certain slash pairings. Now this is important = factor when it comes to such things as competitions, especially competitio= ns were you have to vote. Now the last time I tried to make this point I g= ot flamed alive (not this group or even this year) so bare with me as I tr= ead carefully. I already said that I don't like Legolas/Gimli and nothing = is going to make me read a Legolas/Gimli fic, no matter how well written i= t is or the fact that it has an all canonical cast. If I don't read it I a= m certainly not going to vote for it. It's not that I am anti-slash, I am= anti-Legolas/Gimli. This is the problem that we can't disregard. Is the s= lash story being neglected because the voters of a specific competition ar= e anti-slash or are they anti-that-particular-pairing. Also there is the v= ote spliting to be considered, as in, even though the number of voters who= are ok with slash is large, they might be splitting their vote across a n= umber of slash stories. Basically I don't think the answer is simple or ea= sy to discover. However, this was my little test. I went to ff.net and in = using the search I typed in "Legolas slash". I limited the search result b= y setting the language to english, getting ff.net to only return stories = that are complete, allowed for all ratings and then narrowed down the crit= eria to romance. 157 stories were returned. The same thing done with "Lego= las OFC" returned 5 stories in the romance catertory, "Legolas original fe= male character" returned none and "Legolas het" also didn't return anythin= g (well it actually returned one but it was more slash then het). "Legolas= mary" (since there is no set way of writing mary-sue) returned 17 stories= . Does this prove anything? Nothing conclusively, because while I am sur= e most people label their stories slash, I am not sure if most people woul= d label their story OFC or Mary-sue. However, the difference is numbers is= ... well... what can I say. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.c= om, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > In a message dated 6/14/2008 2:37:55 AM Ea= stern Standard Time, > sharminchoudhury@... writes: > > My experience i= s that Elladan/Legolas have websites, fan groups and other > things dedi= cated to them. While Legolas/OFC get religated to the dark corners > of = fandom, while author's who write Legolas/OFC get accused of self-insertion= > and flamed to death. > Without doing any research I recall that one ve= ry good writer, got some the > highest scores ever in the MEFAs last yea= r for different Legolas/OFC and > Thranduil/OFC pieces. > > On the ot= her hand an excellent slash story that I had nominated and was very > ex= cited about got only a few votes. It had an all-canon cast of characters,= > no forced pairings or breaking up of canon couples, was well- plotted,= > well-constructed, and had well-developed characterization and an inte= resting and > original examination of its political and historical settin= g. There were at > least a couple of other stories, also slash, which wo= uld be on my personal top > ten list of best fanfics ever, regardless of= genre or fandom, by a > well-respected writer, that did not do well eith= er. > > I would interested in actually calculating, using a large, popul= ar site like > HASA, which has no restrictions on posting, and seeing th= e actual figures on > which stories get reviewed and which don't. I migh= t find that I am completely > wrong. What I am stating above are my own = necessarily narrow, anecdotal > examples, but ones which hit me in betwe= en the eyes and, frankly, shocked me. > > > > > **************Vote fo= r your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http:/= /citysbest.aol.com?ncid=3Daolacg00050000000102) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1644 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2008 09:28:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2008 09:28:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2008 09:28:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 09:28:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 09:28:28 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:28:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=hXlxiqLQW4ixyhFlcJyMpOV7VtJ8jVJJE-mg3D-h8KgHOp7ILWsVeQE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > In a message dated 6/14/2008 2:37:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, > sharmi= nchoudhury@... writes: > >> My experience is that Elladan/Legolas have web= sites, fan groups and >> other things dedicated to them. While Legolas/OFC = get religated to >> the dark corners of fandom, while author's who write L= egolas/OFC >> get accused of self-insertion and flamed to death. Great po= int Tinni (and two great posts)! Perhaps it also has to do with the fact th= at Legolas kinda got a face with the handsome Orlando Bloom whereas Elladan= has to do with a trading card. ;) > Without doing any research I recall t= hat one very good writer, got > some the highest scores ever in the MEFAs= last year for different > Legolas/OFC and Thranduil/OFC pieces. Well, = but this writer you do mention is a great story teller. So one case vs the = many other stories who didn't do well... I did see and spotted many stories= as well with a canon character/OFC and they hardly did place or got any vo= tes. As I read stories and come across writers I stumble upon many comments= that writers do not like to read a story where a canon character is paired= with an original character (be it be male or female by the way). This oppo= sed to slash, perhaps I might be mistaken, but I know many slash writers wh= o are proud of what they write and have readers who love what they write. = This combined with Dawn's post a few days ago: slash writers are quite voca= l opposed to het-writers who well just plough along, write and, ah well try= to enjoy crafting their creations. It can be equally disheartening though.= What else is in play is that even though for example erotica gets enough c= licks, people still feel a somesort of taboo on leaving a comment on it (as= this was also openly admitted during a MEFA PM if I remember it correctly)= and don't want a (future) boss find out if they ever google their names. = > On the other hand an excellent slash story that I had nominated and > = was very excited about got only a few votes. It had an all-canon > cast o= f characters, no forced pairings or breaking up of canon > couples, was w= ell-plotted, well-constructed, and had well-developed > characterization a= nd an interesting and original examination of its > political and historic= al setting. There were at least a couple of > other stories, also slash, = which would be on my personal top > ten list of best fanfics ever, regard= less of genre or fandom, by a > well-respected writer, that did not do we= ll either. Yes, but as Tinni made the point, people might have spread the= ir votes over the available stories. You simply can't say, it could have be= en a combination of many things. The fact that your story didn't place well= does not say a thing on how good your story is. I can imagine that it can = hurt to feel let down so much and that you expected more of it. *big hug* = > I would interested in actually calculating, using a large, popular > s= ite like HASA, which has no restrictions on posting, and seeing > the act= ual figures on which stories get reviewed and which don't. I > might find = that I am completely wrong. What I am stating above are > my own necessari= ly narrow, anecdotal examples, but ones which hit > me in between the eye= s and, frankly, shocked me. I don't know if such a comparision would be o= bjective. Every archive has their own group who will call it their home and= their personal reading preferences will reflect in the nr of comments/revi= ews you will find there. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so, it's just l= ogical. It will just take a while before you found your own readerbase I su= ppose. Just my two eurocents, Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49713 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2008 16:08:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2008 16:08:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2008 16:08:36 -0000 X-Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d6b.2777ef05 (37034) for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:08:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M18 (mblk-m18.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.51]) by cia-db02.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB024-90aa4853ecfe96; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:08:30 -0400 References: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:08:29 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 75.89.143.197 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA9C5005496040_1050_250_MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37080-STANDARD X-Received: from 75.89.143.197 by MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.51) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:08:29 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA9C50053188F8-1050-128@MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=Gv4not9_6DeZFRqoy7tq3WvPjfYYLVcfsDKXki5_hq_i_493UJTp1qSZFIc ----------MB_8CA9C5005496040_1050_250_MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My own personal experience tends to mirror oshun's a bit.? Having written a rather notorious OFC and a series of stories about a canon character/OMC, I can tell you that I got about the same amount of vitriol in reviews for both, propotionately speaking, but the OFC stories got a lot more reviews and attention, despite the fact that the slash stories are IMO the better writing. Isabeau -----Original Message----- From: heartofoshun@aol.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 4:04 am Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ... In a message dated 6/14/2008 2:37:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com writes: My experience is that Elladan/Legolas have websites, fan groups and other things dedicated to them. While Legolas/OFC get religated to the dark corners of fandom, while author's who write Legolas/OFC get accused of self-insertion and flamed to death. Without doing any research I recall that?one very good writer, got some the highest scores ever in the MEFAs last year for different Legolas/OFC and Thranduil/OFC pieces. ? On the other hand an excellent slash?story that I had nominated and was very excited about got only a?few votes.?It had an all-canon cast of characters, no forced pairings or breaking up of canon couples, was well-plotted, well-constructed,?and had?well-developed characterization and an interesting and original examination of?its political and historical setting.?There were?at least a couple of other?stories, also slash, which would be on my personal top ten list of best fanfics ever, regardless of genre or fandom, by a well-respected writer, that did not do well either. ? I would interested in actually calculating, using a large, popular site like HASA, which has no restrictions on posting, and seeing the actual figures on which stories get reviewed and which don't. I might find that I am completely wrong. What I am stating above are my own necessarily narrow, anecdotal examples, but ones which hit me in between the eyes and, frankly, shocked me. In a message dated 6/14/2008 2:37:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com writes: My experience is that Elladan/Legolas have websites, fan groups and other things dedicated to them. While Legolas/OFC get religated to the dark corners of fandom, while author's who write Legolas/OFC get accused of self-insertion and flamed to death. Without doing any research I recall that?one very good writer, got some the highest scores ever in the MEFAs last year for different Legolas/OFC and Thranduil/OFC pieces. ? On the other hand an excellent slash?story that I had nominated and was very excited about got only a?few votes.?It had an all-canon cast of characters, no forced pairings or breaking up of canon couples, was well-plotted, well-constructed,?and had?well-developed characterization and an interesting and original examination of?its political and historical setting.?There were?at least a couple of other?stories, also slash, which would be on my personal top ten list of best fanfics ever, regardless of genre or fandom, by a well-respected writer, that did not do well either. ? I would interested in actually calculating, using a large, popular site like HASA, which has no restrictions on posting, and seeing the actual figures on which stories get reviewed and which don't. I might find that I am completely wrong. What I am stating above are my own necessarily narrow, anecdotal examples, but ones which hit me in between the eyes and, frankly, shocked me. Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. ----------MB_8CA9C5005496040_1050_250_MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" My own personal experience tends to mirror oshun's a bit.  Having written a rather notorious OFC and a series of stories about a canon character/OMC, I can tell you that I got about the same amount of vitriol in reviews for both, propotionately speaking, but the OFC stories got a lot more reviews and attention, despite the fact that the slash stories are IMO the better writing.

Isabeau


-----Original Message-----
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 4:04 am
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...

In a message dated 6/14/2008 2:37:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com writes:
My experience is that Elladan/Legolas have websites, fan groups and other things dedicated to them. While Legolas/OFC get religated to the dark corners of fandom, while author's who write Legolas/OFC get accused of self-insertion and flamed to death.
Without doing any research I recall that one very good writer, got some the highest scores ever in the MEFAs last year for different Legolas/OFC and Thranduil/OFC pieces.
 
On the other hand an excellent slash story that I had nominated and was very excited about got only a few votes. It had an all-canon cast of characters, no forced pairings or breaking up of canon couples, was well-plotted, well-constructed, and had well-developed characterization and an interesting and original examination of its political and historical setting. There were at least a couple of other stories, also slash, which would be on my personal top ten list of best fanfics ever, regardless of genre or fandom, by a well-respected writer, that did not do well either.
 
I would interested in actually calculating, using a large, popular site like HASA, which has no restrictions on posting, and seeing the actual figures on which stories get reviewed and which don't. I might find that I am completely wrong. What I am stating above are my own necessarily narrow, anecdotal examples, but ones which hit me in between the eyes and, frankly, shocked me.



Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008.
----------MB_8CA9C5005496040_1050_250_MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91047 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2008 22:09:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2008 22:09:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.176) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2008 22:09:47 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 22:09:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 22:09:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2008 22:09:47 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:09:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="8-1871098569-3244662974=:5" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=yCxh60rfwI6i7TDUB3wpCE9azRGI9aOB13bd2WjB0mlRuEvAyA X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --8-1871098569-3244662974=:5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I would interested in actually calculating, using a large, popular site = like > HASA, which has no restrictions on posting, and seeing the actual fi= gures on > which stories get reviewed and which don't. I think even more= interesting figure (though harder to find info on) would be seeing which s= tories' authors have deleted them. I remember when I was really into LotR = stories there were several OFC fics that I enjoyed reading, but when I've c= ome back to look for them they are gone. Why? There could be a number of r= easons. But I suspect that self-consciousness is a factor - knowing that p= eople are stereotyping and dismissing your story (or worse, actually hearin= g from someone who has done so) doesn't exactly encourage you to leave your= writing in a public place, does it? Obviously it's not by any means the o= nly reason a person would delete their story, but it's something to conside= r. I know that the only Mary-Sue-type OFC I've ever posted online is only = still there out of nostalgia and because I'm not intelligent to figure out = how to delete a story on the site where it's posted. But then again, maybe= it's just me. --8-1871098569-3244662974=:5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I would interested in actually calculating, using a large, popular = site like
> HASA, which has no restrictions on posting, and seeing = the actual figures on
> which stories get reviewed and which don't.=


I think even more interesting figure (though harder to fin= d info on) would be seeing which stories' authors have deleted them.  = I remember when I was really into LotR stories there were several OFC fics = that I enjoyed reading, but when I've come back to look for them they are g= one.  Why?  There could be a number of reasons.  But I suspe= ct that self-consciousness is a factor - knowing that people are stereotypi= ng and dismissing your story (or worse, actually hearing from someone who h= as done so) doesn't exactly encourage you to leave your writing in a public= place, does it?  Obviously it's not by any means the only reason a pe= rson would delete their story, but it's something to consider.

I kno= w that the only Mary-Sue-type OFC I've ever posted online is only still the= re out of nostalgia and because I'm not intelligent to figure out how to de= lete a story on the site where it's posted.  But then again, maybe it'= s just me.
--8-1871098569-3244662974=:5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2010 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36534 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2008 00:05:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2008 00:05:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.171) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2008 00:05:11 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so4866389wfc.18 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:05:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.113.17 with SMTP id l17mr1730315wfc.259.1213488310895; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:05:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:05:10 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1277_8389676.1213488310849" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5HjJWs9_xGzPN9Tp416ysdUj3IyvDkicoF_OPa3sWMrU-zExC_kP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_1277_8389676.1213488310849-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2011 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50377 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2008 00:09:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2008 00:09:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.169) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2008 00:09:59 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so4537289wfc.22 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:09:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.107.5 with SMTP id f5mr1743197wfc.137.1213488599418; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:09:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:09:59 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1286_9363702.1213488599387" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: MEFA Reminder: Nominations Must Be Finalized Soon! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8pk5BCUEOCar-8Ii7qXXggfa4NuEMXct-Hq9n9lYnd9oBzLfLNwh X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_1286_9363702.1213488599387-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2012 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16987 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2008 03:12:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2008 03:12:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.176) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2008 03:12:03 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2008 03:12:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2008 03:12:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2008 03:12:03 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 03:12:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="4-5585433689-3649104538=:9" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=wGZFyqoHLyocZXl54hhdy77vpSVKmC8s3ACZxI2vG-11bS2YWw X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --4-5585433689-3649104538=:9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Tinni, I have to admit that my jaw dropped when you said that your beta >= cautioned you about saying that your character had red hair because > "dwe= lling" on hair color is a sign of a Mary Sue. One mention is dwelling?! > T= o me, that is one of those physical traits that I think *needs* to be > men= tioned* to help the reader establish a mental picture of the character. > I= t's not as though "she tossed her crimson hair and it sprayed against the >= darkened sky like Mars had multiplied himself by one thousand." *That* wou= ld > be dwelling. ;) > > * Because look at how many times Tolkien *didn't* = mention it and all the > fights that's caused! I agree. I mean, if her ha= ir was a different color each scene, or the description of it went on for s= everal paragraphs, that would be one thing. But we still need to know what= a character looks like. Even Tolkien had to do that. For that matter, Ga= ladriel's hair gets nearly half a paragraph (in the Shibboleth of Feanor)..= . but we're not going to accuse Tolkien of being a Mary-Sue author, are we?= Seriously, I think in some cases Mary-Sue phobia is worse than the Mary-S= ues themselves. --4-5585433689-3649104538=:9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Tinni, I have to admit that my jaw dropped when you said that your = beta
> cautioned you about saying that your character had red hair be= cause
> "dwelling" on hair color is a sign of a Mary Sue. One mention= is dwelling?!
> To me, that is one of those physical traits that I t= hink *needs* to be
> mentioned* to help the reader establish a mental= picture of the character.
> It's not as though "she tossed her crims= on hair and it sprayed against the
> darkened sky like Mars had multi= plied himself by one thousand." *That* would
> be dwelling. ;)
>= ;
> * Because look at how many times Tolkien *didn't* mention it and= all the
> fights that's caused!

I agree.  I mean, if= her hair was a different color each scene, or the description of it went o= n for several paragraphs, that would be one thing.  But we still need = to know what a character looks like.  Even Tolkien had to do that.
=
For that matter, Galadriel's hair gets nearly half a paragraph (in the = Shibboleth of Feanor)... but we're not going to accuse Tolkien of being a M= ary-Sue author, are we?

Seriously, I think in some cases Mary-Sue ph= obia is worse than the Mary-Sues themselves.
--4-5585433689-3649104538=:9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2013 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39324 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2008 06:42:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2008 06:42:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.127) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2008 06:42:28 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2008 06:42:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2008 06:42:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2008 06:42:28 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 06:42:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=PSxVqwykRATZUfGUq6T0x0Jc5afr1dj5lKLGPm1EK9BMeiBtPsiQJmToKQ X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Feta" w= rote: > > > Tinni, I have to admit that my jaw dropped when you said that y= our > beta > > cautioned you about saying that your character had red hair = because > > "dwelling" on hair color is a sign of a Mary Sue. One mention = is > dwelling?! > > To me, that is one of those physical traits that I thin= k *needs* to be > > mentioned* to help the reader establish a mental pictu= re of the > character. > > It's not as though "she tossed her crimson hair = and it sprayed against > the > > darkened sky like Mars had multiplied him= self by one thousand." *That* > would > > be dwelling. ;) > > > > * Becaus= e look at how many times Tolkien *didn't* mention it and all > the > > fig= hts that's caused! > > I agree. I mean, if her hair was a different color= each scene, or the > description of it went on for several paragraphs, th= at would be one > thing. But we still need to know what a character looks = like. Even > Tolkien had to do that. > > For that matter, Galadriel's hai= r gets nearly half a paragraph (in the > Shibboleth of Feanor)... but we'r= e not going to accuse Tolkien of being > a Mary-Sue author, are we? > > S= eriously, I think in some cases Mary-Sue phobia is worse than the > Mary-Su= es themselves. > In the defence of my beta, who is a very good beta and un= derstand the mood of fandom, below is the passage in question. So it's jus= t that I said her hair was red but her hair clearly has "mesmerizing" pro= perties. Now it's all related to the plot and more specifically to Maedhro= s and the role he plays in the fic I am writing. However, I know more then= a few people who upon reading the passage would declare the character to = be a Mary-sue and not read further. Never mind that her role is not that b= ig in the fic. She's there it's enough to blacklist the story. Perhaps my = perception is tainted by the rampit anti-OFC stuff I have seen and admitte= dly participated in, in so far as purple haired brides of Legolas with uni= corns are concerned. BUT I think certainly it's gone too far now. Waaaayyy= too far. Elured sighed and reached for the girl, drawing her into a te= nder embrace, "I remember him you know. I remember his voice calling us t= hrough the woods of Doriath. For days we heard his voice. There were times= when we wanted to call back. But he was Maedhros, the enemy and we held o= ur tongues. He came very close to finding us once. So close=85" Elured pul= led back and gaze at her hair - mesmerized, "His hair reminded me of fire,= fire and rage, rage that consumed Doriath and made orphans of us." From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2014 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80544 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2008 13:56:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2008 13:56:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.175) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2008 13:56:03 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so6020018wff.21 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 06:56:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.223.20 with SMTP id v20mr1946473wfg.76.1213538162788; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 06:56:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.48.2 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 06:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:56:02 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2317_30852719.1213538162781" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8Ephl1ABJh1BBmgvFgSbdUJwFakzFOlLVTwcQCzGp9Oywe9-0S4F X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_2317_30852719.1213538162781-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2015 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58968 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2008 15:59:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2008 15:59:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2008 15:59:28 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c86.31feb2cb (14502) for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:59:21 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213545561" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in t... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=RnDTwGgv7P3_SHeKPZJ1U-MYt9bc1baVCgUGND7GK6OL9yvj8fRb X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213545561 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/15/2008 8:56:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: I can understand your beta's stance on recognizing what amounts to red flags and alarms in fandom and wanting to save your story from immediate con demnation. :) I think we all have worried about this. My thought has been, all the way back to the first fanfic I ever wrote, however, that if one does it well one should be able to override those prejudices. I think it is often insecurity that makes people so shy about defying expectations and taking a risk. When I proposed to write Fingon/Maedhros I was told to forget it, that the best had been done already by 2003 or shortly thereafter and it all gone downhill since then. I'm glad I didn't take that advice. It would have robbed me of a great deal of entertainment and satisfication. Having read the paragraph in question now (which is a really good paragraph, btw!) it still doesn't sound to me like a Mary Sue. But then, as I acknowledged earlier, I have been insulated from most of the Mary Sue mania by virtue of participating almost exclusively in the Silmarillion side of things. To me, the hair color as used here is a perfect device Hair has always been very important to me in order to create a visual image of a character. Tolkien did the same. Galadriel is a perfect example. Then there was: Glorfindel's golden hair getting tangled up with the Balrog; Fingon's dark hair braided with golden twine; Maedhros, of course; can anyone imagine a blond Feanor; and, my favorite, in LOTR of Faramir and Eowyn's black and gold hair being tangled together by the wind on the walls of Minas Tirith. I suppose in my case it dates back to my earliest childhood reading of, for example, Little Women. Would any little girl who was enamoured with that book ever forget that Jo had heavy, long, rich chestnut brown hair and Amy had golden curls? **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213545561 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 6/15/2008 8:56:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com write= s:
I can understand your beta's stance = on recognizing what amounts to red flags and alarms in fandom and wantin= g to save your story from immediate condemnation. :)
 
I think we all have worried about this. My thought= has been, all the way back to the first fanfic I ever wrote, however= , that if one does it well one should be able to override those prejudices= . I think it is often insecurity that makes people so shy about defying ex= pectations and taking a risk. When I proposed to write Fingon/Maedhros I w= as told to forget it, that the best had been done already by 200= 3 or shortly thereafter and it all gone downhill since then= . I'm glad I didn't take that advice. It would have robbed me of a great d= eal of entertainment and satisfication.
Having read the paragraph in question now (which is a really good para= graph, btw!) it still doesn't sound to me like a Mary Sue. But th= en, as I acknowledged earlier, I have been insulated from most of the Ma= ry Sue mania by virtue of participating almost exclusively in the Sil= marillion side of things. To me, the hair color as used here is a pe= rfect device
 
Hair h= as always been very important to me in order to create a visual image of a= character. Tolkien did the same. Galadriel is a perfect example. Then ther= e was: Glorfindel's golden hair getting tangled up with the Balrog; F= ingon's dark hair braided with golden twine; Maedhros, of course; can anyo= ne imagine a blond Feanor; and, my favorite, in LOTR of Faramir and Eowyn'= s black and gold hair being tangled together by the wind on the walls of M= inas Tirith.
 
I suppose in my case it dates ba= ck to my earliest childhood reading of, for example, Little Women= . Would any little girl who was enamoured with that book ever forget that = Jo had heavy, long, rich chestnut brown hair and Amy had golden = curls? 



Vote for yo= ur city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008.
<= /HTML> -------------------------------1213545561-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2016 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30720 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2008 17:47:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2008 17:47:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.178) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2008 17:47:48 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2008 17:47:48 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2008 17:47:48 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jun 2008 17:47:48 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:47:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="3-9842472720-6481607698=:1" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in t... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=2hfe9zePP0Eae78Qr_Wg3_W8-OV8wzpCU5f3jhxdxLcVlk9GSg X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --3-9842472720-6481607698=:1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My thought has been, all the way > back to the first fanfic I ever wrote, h= owever, that if one does it well one > should be able to override those pr= ejudices. I think it is often insecurity that > makes people so shy about = defying expectations and taking a risk. When I > proposed to write Fingon/M= aedhros I was told to forget it, that the best had > been done already by 2= 003 or shortly thereafter and it all gone downhill since > then. I'm glad = I didn't take that advice. It would have robbed me of a great > deal of en= tertainment and satisfication. Getting completely off-topic from the hair = issue, I have to say I used to think exactly the same as whoever gave you t= hat advice. It was an awful way see things, but I just kind of accepted th= at as the way life was. But reading some of your writings was one of the t= hings that made me come to my senses. So, really, it's very lucky that you= didn't listen to that particular reasoning. And I think the moral of the = story is that it's good to be conscious of what's going on in fandom, but l= et's not go overboard... if everyone stopped writing stories that might cau= se "red flags and alarms", I don't think we'd have much of a fandom left at= all. --3-9842472720-6481607698=:1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My thought has been, all the way
> back to the first fanfic I ev= er wrote, however, that if one does it well one
> should be able to= override those prejudices. I think it is often insecurity that
> m= akes people so shy about defying expectations and taking a risk. When I > proposed to write Fingon/Maedhros I was told to forget it, that the = best had
> been done already by 2003 or shortly thereafter and it = all gone downhill since
> then. I'm glad I didn't take that advice. = It would have robbed me of a great
> deal of entertainment and sati= sfication.

Getting completely off-topic from the hair issue, I h= ave to say I used to think exactly the same as whoever gave you that advice= .  It was an awful way see things, but I just kind of accepted that as= the way life was.  But reading some of your writings was one of the t= hings that made me come to my senses.  So, really, it's very lucky tha= t you didn't listen to that particular reasoning.

And I think the mo= ral of the story is that it's good to be conscious of what's going on in fa= ndom, but let's not go overboard... if everyone stopped writing stories tha= t might cause "red flags and alarms", I don't think we'd have much of a fan= dom left at all.
--3-9842472720-6481607698=:1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2017 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79699 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2008 17:51:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2008 17:51:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2008 17:51:46 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bf8.311bd572 (14502) for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:51:43 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213552303" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in t... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=MVEcOATmJZH9ikUUXI-L7CdX4LBLr-n5CxJU10n6ELPEj9S0kThS X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213552303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/15/2008 12:48:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com writes: And I think the moral of the story is that it's good to be conscious of what's going on in fandom, but let's not go overboard... if everyone stopped writing stories that might cause "red flags and alarms", I don't think we'd have much of a fandom left at all. I absolutely agree. (Thank you, also, for the lovely compliment--I'm grinning and blushing.) _._,_.___ **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213552303 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 6/15/2008 12:48:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com writes= :

And I think the moral of the story = is that it's good to be conscious of what's going on in fandom, but let'= s not go overboard... if everyone stopped writing stories that might cau= se "red flags and alarms", I don't think we'd have much of a fandom left= at all.

I absolutely agree. (Thank you, also,= for the lovely compliment--I'm grinning and blushing.)

_._,_.___

 


Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife.= Cit= y's Best 2008.
-------------------------------1213552303-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2018 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87797 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2008 02:38:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jun 2008 02:38:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.217) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2008 02:38:43 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jun 2008 02:38:43 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jun 2008 02:38:43 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jun 2008 02:38:43 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 02:38:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=Hc0yYLcHYesu-xjZoRTs9SIbKSCPGdVNhQIoK36SSprx7S6czVmYCb1FAA X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Well I don't think there is anything wrong with constructive critism of OF= C, especially the kind that seems to exsist by diminishing other character= s. Which is usually what heppens when an OFC is inserted in the fellowship= . However appearence, not the hair colour, but appearence has long been th= e flag of a Mary-sue and it is surprising who is susceptible to it. My on= ly completed story with an OFC is Whispering Winds. In chapter 1 I gave a = description of the OFC (given below). The story was well received on ff.ne= t. I never submitted for review on HASA (HASA doesn't like my writing styl= e so me submitting to HASA is usually a futile excersice anyway). That bei= ng said, the story was mostly reviewed by people who know me, so I was spa= red bile at least in the review. However, couple of things did happen ar= ound that story. firstly, you I had to change beta's during the writing of= that fic for that fic because the first beta after awhile refused to read= the subsequent chapters, finding the OFC very animaic. Which is a charge = that I consider fare enough because I do love animes and it goes without = saying that I would be influenced by it. However, that is something that c= ouldn't be helped. Not everyone can like every story and nor should be for= ce a beta to read what she really doesn't want to. The second thing that h= appened, sometime after I was told by one of the people who reviewed and I= was friends with that after she read chapter 1, a number of mary-sue flag= s went up in her head. Only reason she kept reading was because it was me.= Which brings me to the first story with an OFC I ever attempted to write= . I wrote chapter 1 and was very proud of it but the reviews I got for it = all mentioned the dreaded Mary-sue word and so I ended up writing a chapte= r 2 that sort of... well let's just say it became warped and I ended up ab= andoning the story because... the joy of writing it was gone. I couldn't w= rite the story I wanted because I was always too scared the OFC would be l= abeled Mary-sue. I am still scared that the OFCs in my latest story will b= e labelled Mary-sues but I guess now I am old enough to go, that's alright= . It's not that important. I should just write them the way I write them a= nd if people think they are mary-sues... well they think they are mary- su= es. Trying to compensate for it just damages the quality of the fic. ---= ------------------------------------------------ For a moment she said noth= ing. She just stood and studied him with calm patience, her green eyes gli= ttering, her reddish gold hair fluttering slightly in the wind, her pale s= kin shimmering in the moonlight. Suddenly Caranthir's throat went dry, a t= errible, aching hunger rose from deep within him, and he cursed Morgoth fo= r bringing him to this Eru forsaken place loudly in his mind. She was beau= tiful, even by elvish standards. She was brave, not a willing warrior but = a very deadly archer when forced to fight and a skilled healer who knew m= uch of herb lore; but for all that just a Laiquendi and so far beneath him= that this unbearable longing, his insatiable hunger and the overwhelming = love he felt for her would have to be ruthlessly crushed. He turned away = from her, silently cursing the weavers of her worn sea green dress for all= owing it to show so much of her skin. "If you have nothing to say to me, t= hen I bid you good night." A hand on his shoulder. How in the name of the = Valar did she move that fast? She had been at least ten strides away from = him. Reluctantly he turned around, "What?" She smiled a soft smile and ra= ised her strawberry pink lips to his slightly quivering ones and brushed t= hem lightly, pulling away almost immediately. "I know you are proud man, L= ord Caranthir," she said evenly, even as he was reeling from the too brief= taste of her he had received. "Yet your pride is sending you to bed hungr= y and for no good reason." Then she was gone, leaving Caranthir acutely aw= are of the grumbling of his stomach and the longing of his heart. --- In = SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > I can understand your beta's stance on recognizing what amoun= ts to red flags > and alarms in fandom and wanting to save your story from= immediate > condemnation. :) Having read the paragraph in question now (wh= ich is a > really good paragraph, btw!) it still doesn't sound to *me* lik= e a Mary Sue. > But then, as I acknowledged earlier, I have been insulated= from most of the > Mary Sue mania by virtue of participating almost exclu= sively in the * > Silmarillion* side of things. To me, the hair color as u= sed here is a > perfect device to connect Elured's present to his past mem= ories of the > kinslaying at Doriath. > > So I think that someone who wou= ld stop reading there ... their loss. :) I > agree with you, Tinni, that "= Mary Sue phobia" has gone to far. Personally, > I've never seen what is so= terrible about teenage girls writing about what > they want to write abou= t. They're *writing.* That's an awesome thing and > should be encouraged, = imho! Certainly not condemned simply because those of > us "older and wise= r" (certainly the first ... the latter is sometimes > questionable ;) don'= t care to read *what* they write. So what? Read > something else. I guarant= ee that other young writers and the author's > friends will fill the comme= nts page with encouragement that might well impel > her to someday write s= tuff that we old sticks-in-the-mud *will* enjoy. > > Also, it seems to me= that Mary Sue stories are pretty darned obvious from > the summary. And i= f it's not obvious, as I like to tell readers who complain > how much they= hated AMC after *enduring* all 350,000 words of it, the BACK > button is = only a click away. ;) > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2019 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16786 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 15:57:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 15:57:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 15:57:04 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k22so4470929waf.20 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:57:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.184.9 with SMTP id h9mr8113943waf.151.1213718218644; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:56:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:56:58 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13396_14058411.1213718218641" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=9jkj_z1VSC49kbI-E_47ZFSdf1-SEqV7xDmZ_cmgosOEfolSOTee X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_13396_14058411.1213718218641-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2020 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61728 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 16:27:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 16:27:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 16:27:09 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 71476 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jun 2008 16:27:09 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:27:08 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:27:08 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1253053277-1213720028=:71420" Message-ID: <329781.71420.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=f-h3y9-AC44gb3SHh2JnNQ6ADSnYyL4wP06AXrJYFlF9B8mKUQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1253053277-1213720028=:71420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Okay I'm getting one huge point out of all these posts that rings very clear to me. FF.net = Mordor   lol seriously everyone who has been ripped apart for slash or a Mary Sue mentions FF.net as the archive it came from. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/       --- On Tue, 6/17/08, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 11:56 AM On 6/15/08, Tinni wrote: > The second thing that happened, sometime after I was told by one of the > people who reviewed and I was friends with that after she read > chapter 1, a number of mary-sue flags went up in her head.   I've found your posts really interesting, Tinni. I attract a different sort of bile on ff.net, so it's been interesting to hear of your experiences with all of this.   I will admit that the Mary-Sue flags made me think of those litmus tests, and I have a mental image of readers making checkmarks against a list in their heads. "Interesting hair color--check. Romance with canon character--check. Special talent or power--check! Three strikes, you're out!" and closing the story, possibly writing a vitriolic review proclaiming it a Mary-Sue and blaming the author for eyestrain and upset stomach and global warming before moving on with life.   I don't know ... I find the culture of anti-Mary-Sue (or anti-OFC, since just about every OFC seems possible, in the eyes of some, to be construed as a Mary-Sue) to be obsessive-to- the-point- of-disturbing. (This from someone whose personal motto is "Dawn puts the D in OCD!" ;) I mean, we can't even agree on what a Mary-Sue is; it's far from a precise diagnosis. I always believed it to be a flawed characterization until, in a conversation on LiveJournal, the person with whom I was corresponding replied that clearly such-and-such is a Mary-Sue since it fits the hallmark definition of a story where the O(F)C steals the thunder from the canon characters. For example, Mary-Sue rescues Finrod instead of Barahir. Or Maedhros only survived Angband, not because of his extraordinary constitution and willpower, but because of his love for Mary-Sue, left bereft back at Mithrim and "fading." So that's a plot weakness. Which is it?   And what can be more canon than a Mary-Sue? A lot of Tolkien's characters are Mary-Sues or Gary-Stus. Luthien and Galadriel have been mentioned. Finrod certainly fits the bill as well. In LotR, I think you have even more. I remember once reading an essay on TheOneRing.net by one of their contributors about a popular (unnamed) bestseller that she'd read on recommendation and how she had hated it because it was just as foul and convoluted and depressing as real life. No, she much preferred to escape through heroes like Aragorn and Frodo, where there is never a doubt which side they're on ... and there's never a doubt which side is right. And given the hatred that some people possess for the Feanorians or for Turin, preferring Finrod and Beren as their heroes*, I'd say that fannish folk certainly possess the ability to appreciate canon Mary-Sues. Yet it is the sin of sins in writing fanfic. This doesn't make sense to me.   * Not that there is anything wrong with that. I clearly have a soft spot for lords of caves as well.   And I can't imagine reading a story with a big checklist in my head. Even when I beta-read, I have to read the story once without commenting because I get caught up and can't think of anything to say. Additionally, something that sets off a red flag for me, based on what I know of writing, won't always set off a red flag. Your character may be beautiful and perfect with fantastically crimson hair ... and depending on what you do with her in the story depends on whether that is a problem for me or not. And what is a problem for me might not be for one hundred other readers, or vice versa.   For example, a common complaint that I got for AMC was that people just didn't like my Maedhros. And he is, really, the center of the whole series. But where the other characters were complex and interesting, he was just too perfect: brilliant and charming and, of course, very handsome.   But I made him like that for a reason. The series of stories is about him, yes, as the central character. So the series of stories is about his fall during the events leading up to the First Age. In AMC, one sees only the beginnings of this. A wretched character who becomes slightly more wretched as the story progresses is sad, yes. But a character with such hope and promise who falls ... that is worse. And so I felt it necessary to show his potential in the beginning to underscore the tragedy that is the fall of his family in the First Age, with him at the helm.   Now someone with a checklist in their head might dismiss the whole series for my too-perfect Maedhros in AMC. But would the story be better if I made him more wretched in AMC? I don't think it would; much of the point would be lost.   So even Mary-Sues have their place. :)   Dawn   -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org --0-1253053277-1213720028=:71420 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Okay I'm getting one huge point out of all these posts that rings very clear to me.


FF.net = Mordor

 

lol seriously everyone who has been ripped apart for slash or a Mary Sue mentions FF.net as the archive it came from.

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...)
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 11:56 AM

On 6/15/08, Tinni <sharminchoudhury@ yahoo.com> wrote:
> The second thing that happened, sometime after I was told by one of the
> people who reviewed and I was friends with that after she read
> chapter 1, a number of mary-sue flags went up in her head.
 
I've found your posts really interesting, Tinni. I attract a different sort of bile on ff.net, so it's been interesting to hear of your experiences with all of this.
 
I will admit that the Mary-Sue flags made me think of those litmus tests, and I have a mental image of readers making checkmarks against a list in their heads. "Interesting hair color--check. Romance with canon character--check. Special talent or power--check! Three strikes, you're out!" and closing the story, possibly writing a vitriolic review proclaiming it a Mary-Sue and blaming the author for eyestrain and upset stomach and global warming before moving on with life.
 
I don't know ... I find the culture of anti-Mary-Sue (or anti-OFC, since just about every OFC seems possible, in the eyes of some, to be construed as a Mary-Sue) to be obsessive-to- the-point- of-disturbing. (This from someone whose personal motto is "Dawn puts the D in OCD!" ;) I mean, we can't even agree on what a Mary-Sue is; it's far from a precise diagnosis. I always believed it to be a flawed characterization until, in a conversation on LiveJournal, the person with whom I was corresponding replied that clearly such-and-such is a Mary-Sue since it fits the hallmark definition of a story where the O(F)C steals the thunder from the canon characters. For example, Mary-Sue rescues Finrod instead of Barahir. Or Maedhros only survived Angband, not because of his extraordinary constitution and willpower, but because of his love for Mary-Sue, left bereft back at Mithrim and "fading." So that's a plot weakness. Which is it?
 
And what can be more canon than a Mary-Sue? A lot of Tolkien's characters are Mary-Sues or Gary-Stus. Luthien and Galadriel have been mentioned. Finrod certainly fits the bill as well. In LotR, I think you have even more. I remember once reading an essay on TheOneRing.net by one of their contributors about a popular (unnamed) bestseller that she'd read on recommendation and how she had hated it because it was just as foul and convoluted and depressing as real life. No, she much preferred to escape through heroes like Aragorn and Frodo, where there is never a doubt which side they're on ... and there's never a doubt which side is right. And given the hatred that some people possess for the Feanorians or for Turin, preferring Finrod and Beren as their heroes*, I'd say that fannish folk certainly possess the ability to appreciate canon Mary-Sues. Yet it is the sin of sins in writing fanfic. This doesn't make sense to me.
 
* Not that there is anything wrong with that. I clearly have a soft spot for lords of caves as well.
 
And I can't imagine reading a story with a big checklist in my head. Even when I beta-read, I have to read the story once without commenting because I get caught up and can't think of anything to say. Additionally, something that sets off a red flag for me, based on what I know of writing, won't always set off a red flag. Your character may be beautiful and perfect with fantastically crimson hair ... and depending on what you do with her in the story depends on whether that is a problem for me or not. And what is a problem for me might not be for one hundred other readers, or vice versa.
 
For example, a common complaint that I got for AMC was that people just didn't like my Maedhros. And he is, really, the center of the whole series. But where the other characters were complex and interesting, he was just too perfect: brilliant and charming and, of course, very handsome.
 
But I made him like that for a reason. The series of stories is about him, yes, as the central character. So the series of stories is about his fall during the events leading up to the First Age. In AMC, one sees only the beginnings of this. A wretched character who becomes slightly more wretched as the story progresses is sad, yes. But a character with such hope and promise who falls ... that is worse. And so I felt it necessary to show his potential in the beginning to underscore the tragedy that is the fall of his family in the First Age, with him at the helm.
 
Now someone with a checklist in their head might dismiss the whole series for my too-perfect Maedhros in AMC. But would the story be better if I made him more wretched in AMC? I don't think it would; much of the point would be lost.
 
So even Mary-Sues have their place. :)
 
Dawn
 

--0-1253053277-1213720028=:71420-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2021 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51591 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 16:34:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 16:34:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 16:34:36 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d06.3408acf3 (39954) for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:34:31 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213720471" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in t... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=00AeC1gI2KtRUYQpR96VI9wBo2fiPG-ZnMi_V5Ohl6tdw2W01FLm X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213720471 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en I so agree with Dawn on setting up tragedy. Tragic is not Tragic without= the contrast. Tolkien certainly understood that when he wrote Feanor. No= other character gets the amount praise and the build-up that he gets. Dr= eary, depressing character comes to a bad end: that is not tragic, but pr= edictable. Not to say it can=E2=80=99t be a good story, it is just not on= e=E2=80=99s epic tragedy. Of course, my pet peeve (which most of you have = heard a thousand times) is that of F=C3=ABanorians written as mad, bad, a= nd dysfunctional from the get-go. OK. Fine. Want to write them that way? = Then you will have to convince me how they (in particular, Feanor or Maed= hros) accomplished so much. That would be the unbelievable scenario for m= e. Also, people forget when reading a potential Mary Sue that we are dea= ling with the question of the POV character and not just the one being de= scribed. It is not always necessarily that the over-the-top character is = really so unbelievably gorgeous, perfect, and without compare, but that s= omeone else sees them that way. (Ever have a crush on someone, or know so= mebody else who did?). I read a story that in mind as well. The arguable = Mary Sue posted earlier (sorry I=E2=80=99m too lazy to go back and search= for it in order to quote it) with the red hair and green eyes didn=E2=80= =99t so much set off a flashing neon sign for me, but made me wonder what= it was about Caranthir that would make him fall so hard and so fast. If = the writer can convince me of that, then I have no problem with any amoun= t of hyperbolic description. **************Gas prices getting you down? = Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/= used?ncid=3Daolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1213720471 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en

I so agree wi= th Dawn on setting up tragedy. Tragic is not Tragic without the c= ontrast. Tolkien certainly understood that when he wrote Feanor. No other = character gets the amount praise and the build-up that he gets. Dreary, de= pressing character comes to a bad end: that is not tragic, but predictable= . Not to say it can=E2=80=99t be a good story, it is just not one=E2=80=99= s epic tragedy. Of course, my pet peeve (which most of you have heard a th= ousand times) is that of F=C3=ABanorians written as mad, bad, and dysfunct= ional from the get-go. OK. Fine. Want to write them that way? Then you wil= l have to convince me how they (in particular, Feanor or Maedhros) accompl= ished so much. That would be the unbelievable scenario for me. =

 

Also, people forget when reading a potential Mary Sue th= at we are dealing with the question of the POV character and not just the = one being described. It is not always necessarily that the over-the-top ch= aracter is really so unbelievably gorgeous, perfect, and without compare, = but that someone else sees them that way. (Ever have a crush on someone, o= r know somebody else who did?). I read a story that in mind as well. The a= rguable Mary Sue posted earlier (sorry I=E2=80=99m too lazy to go back and= search for it in order to quote it) with the red hair and green eyes didn= =E2=80=99t so much set off a flashing neon sign for me, but made me wonder= what it was about Caranthir that would make him fall so hard and so fast.= If the writer can convince me of that, then I have no problem with any am= ount of hyperbolic description.



=
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fue= l-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1213720471-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2022 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98558 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 17:24:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 17:24:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.173) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 17:24:43 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so6049242wfg.15 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:24:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.81.6 with SMTP id e6mr3104944wfb.205.1213723483265; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:24:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.44.19 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:24:43 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <329781.71420.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7059_4228035.1213723483259" References: <329781.71420.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=JdvEi9ZB3Icn5Zy2XkTR5KoEBJ8zKbL0-gAMwhvd3dzTfbEgigsd X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_7059_4228035.1213723483259-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2023 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20974 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 17:58:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 17:58:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 17:58:54 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 87103 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jun 2008 17:58:53 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:58:53 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:58:53 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1276183391-1213725533=:86701" Message-ID: <668122.86701.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=bPa-j1Tx76qtMGF2hpVKPjFrsooNxmBNxSgP2XFaG25RCI-Fkg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1276183391-1213725533=:86701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was over on FF.net the other day and looked at some of the comments on other stories out of curiousity. Ones that the plot summary made me think it might be a target for flames. And it seemed like everyone I picked had at least one flame. Some of them had pages of flames and I wondered how these people keep writing with that kind of feedback. I would have given up long ago if I had been flamed as badly as some of these people. Do they deserve some concrit on their writing? Most likely - we all do. But I don't understand what kind of ego it takes for a person to decide that they have the right to rip apart someone's work like that. Its like people who think because someone is famous they have a right to pry into every aspect of their life. They 'put themselves out there' so they deserve to have their intimate secrets sprawled across a magazine cover. The flamers must have really pitiful lives in RL to be so bitter and hateful. To me thats worse than anyone writing a self insert, Mary Sue/Gary Stu, slash, or OhMyGoDLeGoLAs is so KEWL fic. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/       --- On Tue, 6/17/08, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 1:24 PM On 6/17/08, Alassante7 wrote: > Okay I'm getting one huge point out of all these posts that rings very clear to me.   > FF.net = Mordor   Ha! Though I'd have to disagree ...   FF.net = Angband   ;)   But, yes, is there any other site with such a complete absence of moderator oversight? I was reading an article on ff.net on Fanhistory.com the other day, and it claimed that ff.net is run now by a paid staff unaffiliated with fandom, the founder having absconded years ago.   Somehow, that didn't surprise me.   Dawn   -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org --0-1276183391-1213725533=:86701 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I was over on FF.net the other day and looked at some of the comments on other stories out of curiousity. Ones that the plot summary made me think it might be a target for flames. And it seemed like everyone I picked had at least one flame. Some of them had pages of flames and I wondered how these people keep writing with that kind of feedback. I would have given up long ago if I had been flamed as badly as some of these people. Do they deserve some concrit on their writing? Most likely - we all do. But I don't understand what kind of ego it takes for a person to decide that they have the right to rip apart someone's work like that. Its like people who think because someone is famous they have a right to pry into every aspect of their life. They 'put themselves out there' so they deserve to have their intimate secrets sprawled across a magazine cover. The flamers must have really pitiful lives in RL to be so bitter and hateful. To me thats worse than anyone writing a self insert, Mary Sue/Gary Stu, slash, or OhMyGoDLeGoLAs is so KEWL fic.

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...)
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 1:24 PM

On 6/17/08, Alassante7 <alassante7@yahoo. com> wrote:
> Okay I'm getting one huge point out of all these posts that rings very clear to me.
 
> FF.net = Mordor
 
Ha! Though I'd have to disagree ...
 
FF.net = Angband
 
;)
 
But, yes, is there any other site with such a complete absence of moderator oversight? I was reading an article on ff.net on Fanhistory.com the other day, and it claimed that ff.net is run now by a paid staff unaffiliated with fandom, the founder having absconded years ago.
 
Somehow, that didn't surprise me.
 
Dawn
 

--0-1276183391-1213725533=:86701-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2024 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65876 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 18:26:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 18:26:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 18:26:45 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:26:45 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:26:45 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:26:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:26:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="4-1080865884-5852842942=:1" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=eiEmzW93I2xhUy74QihpVLiPaij9AlaHAFgFeBanfyn-sLy7tEXZdn4l X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --4-1080865884-5852842942=:1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As one whose writing is currently littered with OFCs, please allow me, an u= nfamiliar "face" to you, Tinni, to weigh in on this subject. First, I'll e= cho what Dawn said, but perhaps more vehemently. The so-called Mary Sue li= tmus test is one of the most idiotic meta-dictums of fan fic I have seen. = Applying that rubric to a number of female protagonists in literature would= result in a "positive." I recently read a wonderful novel called The Pal= ace of Illusions by Chitra Banerjee Divakaruni. The female protagonist is = beyond beautiful and most certainly magical: she and her brother are born o= f fire, not a human mother. Kings and princes compete to win her hand. Sh= e marries seven brothers - all princes. They live in a marvelous enchanted= palace. Sound familiar? It is a re-telling of the Mahabharata. I'll tak= e a wild guess that you might be familiar with that incredible epic. :^) D= raupadi/Panchali is the heroine and according to the insipid Mary Sue Litmu= s Test, she wins. Big time. But she's also complex. She's not perfect by= any means, and in spite of her magical nature, she has the "feel" of a re= al woman. Divakaruni develops her character in a book that is too short IM= O (sometimes CBD seems to be "skimming along" and she's usually a better wr= iter than that). Similarly, Cassandra in Marion Zimmer Bradley's Firebrand= or Morgan Le Fay in the same author's Mists of Avalon would likely rate a = "positive." Anyway, the list goes on. I'll also echo what Dawn noted abou= t some of the larger than life male characters in the Tolkien legendarium. = Where's the vitriol about these guys? They're painted with a fairly broad= heroic brush. Understandably, too, since Tolkien was writing a heroic epi= c, not a screenplay for an introspective Ingmar Bergman film. But sometime= s, and this may just be me, I get a whiff of sexism coming from the readers= of Tolkien fan fic although not, I repeat NOT, at the SWG. This relates t= o what oshun and Feta have pointed out -- character and storytelling are cr= itical components. At least they are for me as the reader. As for violet= hair, all members of the Fellowship struck dumb with love in the protagoni= st's presence, and riding off into the Valinorean sunset on a unicorn behin= d Legolas (who has pink blood) -- well, I have to ask: what's wrong with th= at? Frankly, I think it serves some a purpose and outlet for the writer, e= specially young writers. Speaking as a grizzled old broad who is, if I don= 't say so myself, well-read, these stories are not my cup of tea (or glass = of martini or Metamucil as the case may be) but as a mother of a young woma= n who used to write Harry Potter fan fic (adventure-oriented) a few years a= go, I am sympathetic. Besides, writers of such stories may very well have = the potential to move on to write far more sophisticated fare. I think one= needs to ask oneself why one is writing fan fiction and who is one's targe= t audience? If you're after the broader spectrum, then omitting OFCs and p= laying it safe with canon on a large site like fan fiction. net seems the w= ay to go from what I can tell. I mean, I do everything "wrong" according = to a more canonical rubric for Tolkienian fan fiction: 1. I write in first= person. Frequently. 2. My stories are so thick with OCs that you will trip= s over one wherever you turns. 3. Corollary to number 2 - I have OFCs in my= fics. 4. I infuse my stories with modern viewpoints (although I attempt to= Ardaize these somewhat) as commentary on JRRT's attitudes and some of thes= e viewpoints contradict his. 5. My elves use contractions in their speech p= atterns. Oh, the horror! 6. I let canon inform me, but I do not adhere to = it. Oh, the horror redux! None of the above will earn me massive squees a= t a large site. I would not expect them to do so nor do I especially care. = My target audience is pretty small, and I am thrilled to pieces when one o= f them says, "Yeah! I like this! Write more!" I understand the desire of= many readers to focus on stories that adhere very closely to Tolkien's ori= ginal writings and even writing patterns. These readers want more from the= late JRRT who is no longer around to give us such, but I am not the writer= to give such to them. Like others have noted, the inclusion of the OFC or= the use of m/m slash and potentially negative reactions to it bring out th= e insecurities of the writer who uses these. Creative writing is not more= fort=E9 (technical is) so this was a whole new world to me. I admit I loo= ked at what I should and should not do in Tolkien fan fic, then looked at m= y boldness in other more opinionated writing venues, and said, "The h*ll wi= th it" and went on from there. I also looked at various sites. I was fam= iliar with fan fiction dot net from my daughter's ventures there (winged ha= rpy protective mother here) and I was not impressed. I will decline to say= exactly why because my opinion is very arrogant (although you can guess wh= at it might be) and settled into the SWG which, to a person -- readers, mem= bers, and authors -- constitutes a very intelligent and expansive group of = people. HASA seems fine to me, too. I just haven't posted anything there.= ..yet. Anyway, back to OFCs (put me on a bully pulpit and I won't get off)= ... Part of my predilection for OCs, male or female, is the challenge of c= haracterization. Like a lot of folks here, I'd like to try my hand at orig= inal fiction some day, so I use my sometimes awkward exercises w/ OCs with= in Tolkien's mythos to "practice" and to see if I can reach a reader or thr= ee with them. So, while each and every OFC I write would tickle or fall in= to the "danger zone" of the hilariously stupid (can you sense my contempt?)= Mary Sue Litmus test, I merrily go on my way and attempt to write these wo= men. Two are quasi-canonical (they existed but Tolkien never named them) an= d one which is flagrantly non-canonical but serves as my vehicle for commen= tary on a number of aspects of Tolkien's world view that indeed makes its w= ay into his stories. Although they are love interests for canon or non-ca= nonical characters, that is not the sum total of their existence. So, gett= ing back to your excerpts, Tinni -- like oshun, my curiosity is piqued. Wh= at is it about this lively woman of the Moriquendi who has attracted Carant= hir so powerfully? That's the first thing that hits me when I read your p= rose. Oh, and I like her red hair. My daughter's hair is a beautiful shad= e of dark auburn, almost wine-red. Oh, crud...verging into Mary Sue territ= ory here! :^D --4-1080865884-5852842942=:1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As one whose writing is currently littered with OFCs, please allow me, an u= nfamiliar "face" to you, Tinni, to weigh in on this subject.

First, = I'll echo what Dawn said, but perhaps more vehemently.  The so-called = Mary Sue litmus test is one of the most idiotic meta-dictums of fan fic I h= ave seen.  Applying that rubric to a number of female protagonists in = literature would result in a "positive."   I recently read a wond= erful novel called The Palace of Illusions by Chitra Banerjee Divaka= runi.  The female protagonist is beyond beautiful and most certainly m= agical: she and her brother are born of fire, not a human mother.  Kin= gs and princes compete to win her hand.  She marries seven brothers - = all princes.  They live in a marvelous enchanted palace.  Sound f= amiliar?  It is a re-telling of the Mahabharata.  I'll take a wil= d guess that you might be familiar with that incredible epic. :^)

Dr= aupadi/Panchali is the heroine and according to the insipid Mary Sue Litmus= Test, she wins.  Big time.  But she's also complex.  She's = not perfect by any means, and in spite of her magical nature, she  has= the "feel" of a real woman.  Divakaruni develops her character= in a book that is too short IMO (sometimes CBD seems to be "skimming along= " and she's usually a better writer than that).  Similarly, Cassandra = in Marion Zimmer Bradley's Firebrand or Morgan Le Fay in the same au= thor's Mists of Avalon would likely rate a "positive."  Anyway,= the list goes on.

I'll also echo what Dawn noted about some of the = larger than life male characters in the Tolkien legendarium.  Where's = the vitriol about these guys?  They're painted with a fairly broad her= oic brush.  Understandably, too, since Tolkien was writing a heroic ep= ic, not a screenplay for an introspective Ingmar Bergman film.  But so= metimes, and this may just be me, I get a whiff of sexism coming from the r= eaders of Tolkien fan fic although not, I repeat NOT, at the SWG.
This relates to what oshun and Feta have pointed out -- character and = storytelling are critical components.   At least they are for me = as the reader.  As for violet hair, all members of the Fellowsh= ip struck dumb with love in the protagonist's presence, and riding off into= the Valinorean sunset on a unicorn behind Legolas (who has pink blood) -- = well, I have to ask: what's wrong with that?  Frankly, I think = it serves some a purpose and outlet for the writer, especially young writer= s.  Speaking as a grizzled old broad who is, if I don't say so myself,= well-read, these stories are not my cup of tea (or glass of martini or Met= amucil as the case may be) but as a mother of a young woman who used to wri= te Harry Potter fan fic (adventure-oriented) a few years ago, I am sympathe= tic.  Besides, writers of such stories may very well have the potentia= l to move on to write far more sophisticated fare.

I think one needs= to ask oneself why one is writing fan fiction and who is one= 's target audience?  If you're after the broader spectrum, then omitti= ng OFCs and playing it safe with canon on a large site like fan fiction. ne= t seems the way to go from what I can tell.   I mean, I do everyt= hing "wrong" according to a more canonical rubric for Tolkienian fan fictio= n:

1. I write in first person. Frequently.
2. My stories are so t= hick with OCs that you will trips over one wherever you turns.
3. Coroll= ary to number 2 - I have OFCs in my fics.
4. I infuse my stories = with modern viewpoints (although I attempt to Ardaize these somewhat) as co= mmentary on JRRT's attitudes and some of these viewpoints contradict his.5. My elves use contractions in their speech patterns.  Oh, t= he horror!
6. I let canon inform me, but I do not adhere to it.&n= bsp; Oh, the horror redux!

None of the above will earn me massive sq= uees at a large site. I would not expect them to do so nor do I especially = care.  My target audience is pretty small, and I am thrilled to pieces= when one of them says, "Yeah!  I like this!  Write more!"  = I understand the desire of many readers to focus on stories that adhere = very closely to Tolkien's original writings and even writing patterns.&= nbsp; These readers want more from the late JRRT who is no longer ar= ound to give us such, but I am not the writer to give such to them.

= Like others have noted, the inclusion of the OFC or the use of m/m slash an= d potentially negative reactions to it bring out the insecurities of the wr= iter who uses these.   Creative writing is not more fort=E9 (tech= nical is) so this was a whole new world to me.  I admit I looked at wh= at I should and should not do in Tolkien fan fic, then looked at my boldnes= s in other more opinionated writing venues, and said, "The h*ll with it" an= d went on from there.   I also looked at various sites.  I w= as familiar with fan fiction dot net from my daughter's ventures there (win= ged harpy protective mother here) and I was not impressed.  I will dec= line to say exactly why because my opinion is very arrogant (althoug= h you can guess what it might be) and settled into the SWG which, to a pers= on -- readers, members, and authors -- constitutes a very intelligent and e= xpansive group of people.  HASA seems fine to me, too.  I just ha= ven't posted anything there...yet.

Anyway, back to OFCs (put me on a= bully pulpit and I won't get off)...

Part of my predilection for OC= s, male or female, is the challenge of characterization.  Like a lot o= f folks here, I'd like to try my hand at original fiction some day, so I us= e my sometimes awkward  exercises w/ OCs within Tolkien's mythos to "p= ractice" and to see if I can reach a reader or three with them.  So, w= hile each and every OFC I write would tickle or fall into the "danger zone"= of the hilariously stupid (can you sense my contempt?) Mary Sue Litmus tes= t, I merrily go on my way and attempt to write these women. Two are quasi-c= anonical (they existed but Tolkien never named them) and one which is flagr= antly non-canonical but serves as my vehicle for commentary on a number of = aspects of Tolkien's world view that indeed makes its way into his stories.=    Although they are love interests for canon or non-canonical ch= aracters, that is not the sum total of their existence. 

So, g= etting back to your excerpts, Tinni -- like oshun, my curiosity is piqued.&= nbsp; What is it about this lively woman of the Moriquendi who has a= ttracted Caranthir so powerfully?   That's the first thing that hits m= e when I read your prose.  Oh, and I like her red hair.  M= y daughter's hair is a beautiful shade of dark auburn, almost wine-red.&nbs= p; Oh, crud...verging into Mary Sue territory here! :^D 


<= br>
--4-1080865884-5852842942=:1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2025 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26799 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 18:29:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 18:29:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n51c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.185) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 18:29:08 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n51.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:29:08 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:29:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:29:08 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:29:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1-9387196938-8813901377=:0" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=Xdh6UyfSWPmcVhF93Wex81zwPgyNRLI22yMFgyJp3kLDbGrT81VJc7Ab X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --1-9387196938-8813901377=:0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > On 6/17/08, Alassante7 alassante7@... wrote: > > Okay = I'm getting one huge point out of all these posts that rings very > clear t= o me. > > > FF.net =3D Mordor > > Ha! Though I'd have to disagree ... > > F= F.net =3D Angband > > ;) > Please. Let's not insult the intelligence of M= ordor and Angband. [;)] --1-9387196938-8813901377=:0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote:
>
> On 6/17/08, Alassante7 alassante7= @... wrote:
> > Okay I'm getting one huge point out of all these p= osts that rings very
> clear to me.
>
> > FF.net =3D = Mordor
>
> Ha! Though I'd have to disagree ...
>
>= ; FF.net =3D Angband
>
> ;)
>

Please.  Let'= s not insult the intelligence of Mordor and Angband.

3D";)"
--1-9387196938-8813901377=:0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2026 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5194 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 18:39:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 18:39:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 18:39:36 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 61117 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jun 2008 18:39:35 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:39:35 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:39:35 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-585969362-1213727975=:61031" Message-ID: <627294.61031.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=LwKNDyWcjB2JwT2A5XKVO7A_uD21a29jJZ1eSmDh4DcSp3djYg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-585969362-1213727975=:61031 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I want to read your writing just because you seem to be a rebel ~~**~~= Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when y= ou call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/       --= - On Tue, 6/17/08, pandemonium_213 wrote: Fr= om: pandemonium_213 Subject: [SilmarillionWri= tersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussio= n Room ...) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, Jun= e 17, 2008, 2:26 PM As one whose writing is currently littered with O= FCs, please allow me, an unfamiliar "face" to you, Tinni, to weigh in on th= is subject. First, I'll echo what Dawn said, but perhaps more vehemently.&= nbsp; The so-called Mary Sue litmus test is one of the most idiotic meta-di= ctums of fan fic I have seen.  Applying that rubric to a number of fem= ale protagonists in literature would result in a "positive."   I = recently read a wonderful novel called The Palace of Illusions by Chitra Ba= nerjee Divakaruni.  The female protagonist is beyond beautiful and mos= t certainly magical: she and her brother are born of fire, not a human moth= er.  Kings and princes compete to win her hand.  She marries seve= n brothers - all princes.  They live in a marvelous enchanted palace.&= nbsp; Sound familiar?  It is a re-telling of the Mahabharata.  I'= ll take a wild guess that you might be familiar with that incredible epic. = :^) Draupadi/Panchali is the heroine and according to the insipid Mary Sue= Litmus Test, she wins.  Big time.  But she's also complex. = She's not perfect by any means, and in spite of her magical nature, she&nb= sp; has the "feel" of a real woman.  Divakaruni develops her character= in a book that is too short IMO (sometimes CBD seems to be "skimming along= " and she's usually a better writer than that).  Similarly, Cassandra = in Marion Zimmer Bradley's Firebrand or Morgan Le Fay in the same author's = Mists of Avalon would likely rate a "positive."  Anyway, the list goes= on. I'll also echo what Dawn noted about some of the larger than life mal= e characters in the Tolkien legendarium.  Where's the vitriol about th= ese guys?  They're painted with a fairly broad heroic brush.  Und= erstandably, too, since Tolkien was writing a heroic epic, not a screenplay= for an introspective Ingmar Bergman film.  But sometimes, and this ma= y just be me, I get a whiff of sexism coming from the readers of Tolkien fa= n fic although not, I repeat NOT, at the SWG. This relates to what oshun a= nd Feta have pointed out -- character and storytelling are critical compone= nts.   At least they are for me as the reader.  As for viole= t hair, all members of the Fellowship struck dumb with love in the protagon= ist' s presence, and riding off into the Valinorean sunset on a unicorn beh= ind Legolas (who has pink blood) -- well, I have to ask: what's wrong with = that?  Frankly, I think it serves some a purpose and outlet for the wr= iter, especially young writers.  Speaking as a grizzled old broad who = is, if I don't say so myself, well-read, these stories are not my cup of te= a (or glass of martini or Metamucil as the case may be) but as a mother of = a young woman who used to write Harry Potter fan fic (adventure-oriented ) = a few years ago, I am sympathetic.  Besides, writers of such stories m= ay very well have the potential to move on to write far more sophisticated = fare. I think one needs to ask oneself why one is writing fan fiction and = who is one's target audience?  If you're after the broader spectrum, t= hen omitting OFCs and playing it safe with canon on a large site like fan f= iction. net seems the way to go from what I can tell.   I mean, I= do everything "wrong" according to a more canonical rubric for Tolkienian = fan fiction: 1. I write in first person. Frequently. 2. My stories are so = thick with OCs that you will trips over one wherever you turns. 3. Corollar= y to number 2 - I have OFCs in my fics. 4. I infuse my stories with modern = viewpoints (although I attempt to Ardaize these somewhat) as commentary on = JRRT's attitudes and some of these viewpoints contradict his. 5. My elves u= se contractions in their speech patterns.  Oh, the horror! 6. I let ca= non inform me, but I do not adhere to it.  Oh, the horror redux! None= of the above will earn me massive squees at a large site. I would not expe= ct them to do so nor do I especially care.  My target audience is pret= ty small, and I am thrilled to pieces when one of them says, "Yeah!  I= like this!  Write more!"  I understand the desire of many reader= s to focus on stories that adhere very closely to Tolkien's original writin= gs and even writing patterns.  These readers want more from the late J= RRT who is no longer around to give us such, but I am not the writer to giv= e such to them. Like others have noted, the inclusion of the OFC or the us= e of m/m slash and potentially negative reactions to it bring out the insec= urities of the writer who uses these.   Creative writing is not m= ore fort=E9 (technical is) so this was a whole new world to me.  I adm= it I looked at what I should and should not do in Tolkien fan fic, then loo= ked at my boldness in other more opinionated writing venues, and said, "The= h*ll with it" and went on from there.   I also looked at various= sites.  I was familiar with fan fiction dot net from my daughter's ve= ntures there (winged harpy protective mother here) and I was not impressed.=   I will decline to say exactly why because my opinion is very arrogan= t (although you can guess what it might be) and settled into the SWG which,= to a person -- readers, members, and authors -- constitutes a very intelli= gent and expansive group of people.  HASA seems fine to me, too. = I just haven't posted anything there...yet. Anyway, back to OFCs (put me= on a bully pulpit and I won't get off)... Part of my predilection for OCs= , male or female, is the challenge of characterization.  Like a lot of= folks here, I'd like to try my hand at original fiction some day, so I use= my sometimes awkward  exercises w/ OCs within Tolkien's mythos to "pr= actice" and to see if I can reach a reader or three with them.  So, wh= ile each and every OFC I write would tickle or fall into the "danger zone" = of the hilariously stupid (can you sense my contempt?) Mary Sue Litmus test= , I merrily go on my way and attempt to write these women. Two are quasi-ca= nonical (they existed but Tolkien never named them) and one which is flagra= ntly non-canonical but serves as my vehicle for commentary on a number of a= spects of Tolkien's world view that indeed makes its way into his stories.&= nbsp;  Although they are love interests for canon or non-canonical cha= racters, that is not the sum total of their existence.  So, getting = back to your excerpts, Tinni -- like oshun, my curiosity is piqued.  W= hat is it about this lively woman of the Moriquendi who has attracted Caran= thir so powerfully?   That's the first thing that hits me when I read = your prose.  Oh, and I like her red hair.  My daughter's hair is = a beautiful shade of dark auburn, almost wine-red.  Oh, crud...verging= into Mary Sue territory here! :^D  --0-585969362-1213727975=:61031 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--0-585969362-1213727975=:61031-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2027 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28874 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 18:43:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 18:43:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 18:43:47 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d08.38c8c64c (39954) for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:43:40 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213728220" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in t... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=De_SoRbHIGAokxFhIzAJWBrS2ru1sd2OVHYOZjI1bFX1YgXTGeeO X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213728220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/17/2008 1:27:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: So, getting back to your excerpts, Tinni -- like oshun, my curiosity is piqued. What is it about this lively woman of the Moriquendi who has attracted Caranthir so powerfully? That's the first thing that hits me when I read your prose. Oh, and I like her red hair. My daughter's hair is a beautiful shade of dark auburn, almost wine-red. Oh, crud...verging into Mary Sue territory here! :^D I got a chuckle out of the reference to your daugher's hair. My character labeled by many a blatant Mary Sue--was modeled, trait for trait, right down to the physical description, on my own daughter. I was a bit insulted when I was told she was impossible. You want us to believe that she really is that pretty, can cook and is good at languages too, and has the self-confidence to match snarky comments with important men and elves? Actually, my daughter read the fic and got very miffed. She didn't blink for a moment before launching into a temper fit, "How dare you write this person who looks and sounds exactly like me. And does just the sort of stupid things that I have done and makes the same kind of mistakes." **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1213728220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 6/17/2008 1:27:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes= :
So, getting back to your excerpts, T= inni -- like oshun, my curiosity is piqued.  What is it abou= t this lively woman of the Moriquendi who has attracted Caranthir so pow= erfully?   That's the first thing that hits me when I read your pro= se.  Oh, and I like her red hair.  My daughter's hair i= s a beautiful shade of dark auburn, almost wine-red.  Oh, crud...ve= rging into Mary Sue territory here! :^D 
I g= ot a chuckle out of the reference to your daugher's hair. My character lab= eled by many a blatant Mary Sue--was modeled, trait for trait, right down t= o the physical description, on my own daughter. I was a bit insulted when = I was told she was impossible. You want us to believe that she really is t= hat pretty, can cook and is good at languages too, and has the self-c= onfidence to match snarky comments with important men and elves? Actu= ally, my daughter read the fic and got very miffed. She didn't blink for a= moment before launching into a temper fit, "How dare you write this = person who looks and sounds exactly like me. And does just the sort of stu= pid things that I have done and makes the same kind of mistakes."



Gas prices getting you down? Se= arch AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1213728220-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2028 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73742 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 18:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 18:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n41c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.175) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 18:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:52:37 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:52:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <627294.61031.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-7512994506-6779053374=:4" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=SxZbSRCJieaQscYKRhBxc7LPRkYZ1zI67Jh1-19YKgx0Y67D_4uUfUVp X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --0-7512994506-6779053374=:4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > I want to read your writing just because you seem to be a reb= el > Heh. Melkor's on my shoulder at all times encouraging me to sing th= at discordant theme [;)] I'm not sure how much of a rebel I am. But I a= m a heretic. --0-7512994506-6779053374=:4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote:
>
> I want to read your writing just because= you seem to be a rebel
>

 
Heh.  Melkor's on m= y shoulder at all times encouraging me to sing that discordant theme


I'm not sure how much of a rebel I a= m.  But I am a heretic.
--0-7512994506-6779053374=:4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2029 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49639 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 18:56:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 18:56:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 18:56:56 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:56:55 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:56:55 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 18:56:55 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:56:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="8-7140129553-2924883653=:9" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in t... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=kTYI0zeJXvLzfT9h1DEE6rbl7fEIgoGUH9TsdyhGcxHkXYcxNz4V0knj X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --8-7140129553-2924883653=:9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >= > I got a chuckle out of the reference to your daugher's hair. My charact= er > labeled by many a blatant Mary Sue--was modeled, trait for trait, righ= t down to > the physical description, on my own daughter. I was a bit insul= ted when I was > told she was impossible. You want us to believe that she = really is that > pretty, can cook and is good at languages too, and has th= e self-confidence to > match snarky comments with important men and elves? = Actually, my daughter read > the fic and got very miffed. She didn't blink = for a moment before launching > into a temper fit, "How dare you write this= person who looks and sounds exactly > like me. And does just the sort of = stupid things that I have done and makes > the same kind of mistakes." Oh= , I know! The whole Lothiriel =3D your DD just slays me! Especially her r= eaction to it. The things we do to our children. But why have them otherw= ise? [:)] And this is your popular story, too! > > > > **************Gas = prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for > fuel-efficient used cars. = (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=3Daolaut00050000000007) > --8-7140129553-2924883653=:9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote= :
>

> I got a chuckle out of the reference to your daugher'= s hair. My character
> labeled by many a blatant Mary Sue--was mode= led, trait for trait, right down to
> the physical description, on = my own daughter. I was a bit insulted when I was
> told she was imp= ossible. You want us to believe that she really is that
> pretty, c= an cook and is good at languages too, and has the self-confidence to
&= gt; match snarky comments with important men and elves? Actually, my daught= er read
> the fic and got very miffed. She didn't blink for a momen= t before launching
> into a temper fit, "How dare you write this pe= rson who looks and sounds exactly
> like me. And does just the sort= of stupid things that I have done and makes
> the same kind of mis= takes."

Oh, I know!  The whole Lothiriel =3D your DD just slay= s me!  Especially her reaction to it.  The things we do to our ch= ildren.  But why have them otherwise? 3D":)"

And this is your popular story, too!
>
>
= >
> **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos f= or
> fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid= =3Daolaut00050000000007)
>
--8-7140129553-2924883653=:9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2030 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93880 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 19:41:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 19:41:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.172) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 19:41:41 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so6035140wfc.20 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:41:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.242.11 with SMTP id p11mr3328180wfh.135.1213731701536; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:41:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.44.19 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:41:41 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <668122.86701.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8097_13340732.1213731701527" References: <668122.86701.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=N-KhzBAuR4ZpB1hhQPB-Gm6rquIgR842Sy40PbeiePVCE1NYo6o- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_8097_13340732.1213731701527-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2031 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23533 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 20:00:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 20:00:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 20:00:09 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 1595 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jun 2008 20:00:06 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:00:06 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1058479042-1213732806=:98260" Message-ID: <600104.98260.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=-zH3pSrVrfTxkZzuFDiyvv8Lr9LqKPLT9YdNFB-_qZ4kcfehmQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1058479042-1213732806=:98260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have been truly blessed by stumbling onto OSA early on before I knew what a flamer was. I posted a few stories thinking I was a pretty good writer and the stories were good (hell they liked them on AFF!) A few slaps on the wrists at OSA for numerous mistakes in canon and lack of beta'ing and I was ready to call it quits there. Before I could even think to delete my story, I was PM'ed by a few of the writers there who gave me helpful concrit. Then they proceeded to take me under their wing so to speak and teach me about the goodness of beta'ing, things like what the heck 'canon' was and that LaCE wasn't just part of your unmentionables. If it hadn't been for the helping hand I received over there by writers I really respect like Viv, Elliska, Haleth, SilverMoonLady, Thurinel, and NancyBrooke (and others), I would never have stuck around. And in a typical pay it forward way, I held out my hand to others who had stumbling starts there too. Its amazing what some of the writers that started off pretty rough have turned into!! I had a similar situation happen when I joined HASA as well (which I had long been afraid of because I heard it was a bunch of canon-nazis lol)   So it does really bother me to see these people posting their first attempts getting ripped on other places. That person could be the next Tolkien or JK Rowling and just need a little help starting out to really blossom into something incredible.     ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/     --0-1058479042-1213732806=:98260 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I want = to read your writing just because you seem to be a rebel

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many na= mes....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 6/17/08, pandemonium= _213 wrote:
From: pandemonium_213
Subject: [Silma= rillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash= Discussion Room ...)
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Da= te: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 2:26 PM

As one whose writing is currently littered with OFCs, ple= ase allow me, an unfamiliar "face" to you, Tinni, to weigh in on this subje= ct.

First, I'll echo what Dawn said, but perhaps more vehemently.&nb= sp; The so-called Mary Sue litmus test is one of the most idiotic meta-dict= ums of fan fic I have seen.  Applying that rubric to a number of femal= e protagonists in literature would result in a "positive."   I re= cently read a wonderful novel called The Palace of Illusions by Chit= ra Banerjee Divakaruni.  The female protagonist is beyond beautiful an= d most certainly magical: she and her brother are born of fire, not a human= mother.  Kings and princes compete to win her hand.  She marries= seven brothers - all princes.  They live in a marvelous enchanted pal= ace.  Sound familiar?  It is a re-telling of the Mahabharata.&nbs= p; I'll take a wild guess that you might be familiar with that incredible e= pic. :^)

Draupadi/Panchali is the heroine and according to the insi= pid Mary Sue Litmus Test, she wins.  Big time.  But she's also co= mplex.  She's not perfect by any means, and in spite of her magical na= ture, she  has the "feel" of a real woman.  Divakaruni develops <= I>her character in a book that is too short IMO (sometimes CBD seems to= be "skimming along" and she's usually a better writer than that).  Si= milarly, Cassandra in Marion Zimmer Bradley's Firebrand or Morgan Le= Fay in the same author's Mists of Avalon would likely rate a "posit= ive."  Anyway, the list goes on.

I'll also echo what Dawn noted= about some of the larger than life male characters in the Tolkien legendar= ium.  Where's the vitriol about these guys?  They're painted with= a fairly broad heroic brush.  Understandably, too, since Tolkien was = writing a heroic epic, not a screenplay for an introspective Ingmar Bergma= n film.  But sometimes, and this may just be me, I get a whiff of sexi= sm coming from the readers of Tolkien fan fic although not, I repeat NOT= , at the SWG.

This relates to what oshun and Feta have pointed o= ut -- character and storytelling are critical components.   At le= ast they are for me as the reader.  As for violet hair, all mem= bers of the Fellowship struck dumb with love in the protagonist' s presence= , and riding off into the Valinorean sunset on a unicorn behind Legolas (wh= o has pink blood) -- well, I have to ask: what's wrong with that?&nb= sp; Frankly, I think it serves some a purpose and outlet for the writer, es= pecially young writers.  Speaking as a grizzled old broad who is, if I= don't say so myself, well-read, these stories are not my cup of tea (or gl= ass of martini or Metamucil as the case may be) but as a mother of a young = woman who used to write Harry Potter fan fic (adventure-oriented ) a few y= ears ago, I am sympathetic.  Besides, writers of such stories may very= well have the potential to move on to write far more sophisticated fare.
I think one needs to ask oneself why one is writing fan fictio= n and who is one's target audience?  If you're after the broade= r spectrum, then omitting OFCs and playing it safe with canon on a large si= te like fan fiction. net seems the way to go from what I can tell. &nb= sp; I mean, I do everything "wrong" according to a more canonical rubric fo= r Tolkienian fan fiction:

1. I write in first person. Frequently.2. My stories are so thick with OCs that you will trips over one wherever = you turns.
3. Corollary to number 2 - I have OFCs in my fics.
= 4. I infuse my stories with modern viewpoints (although I attempt to Ardaiz= e these somewhat) as commentary on JRRT's attitudes and some of these viewp= oints contradict his.
5. My elves use contractions in their spee= ch patterns.  Oh, the horror!
6. I let canon inform me, but = I do not adhere to it.  Oh, the horror redux!

None of the above= will earn me massive squees at a large site. I would not expect them to do= so nor do I especially care.  My target audience is pretty small, and= I am thrilled to pieces when one of them says, "Yeah!  I like this!&n= bsp; Write more!"  I understand the desire of many readers to focus on= stories that adhere very closely to Tolkien's original writings and= even writing patterns.  These readers want more from the late = JRRT who is no longer around to give us such, but I am not the writer to gi= ve such to them.

Like others have noted, the inclusion of the OFC or= the use of m/m slash and potentially negative reactions to it bring out th= e insecurities of the writer who uses these.   Creative writing i= s not more fort=E9 (technical is) so this was a whole new world to me.&nbs= p; I admit I looked at what I should and should not do in Tolkien fan fic, = then looked at my boldness in other more opinionated writing venues, and sa= id, "The h*ll with it" and went on from there.   I also looked at= various sites.  I was familiar with fan fiction dot net from my daugh= ter's ventures there (winged harpy protective mother here) and I was not im= pressed.  I will decline to say exactly why because my opinion = is very arrogant (although you can guess what it might be) and settled into= the SWG which, to a person -- readers, members, and authors -- constitutes= a very intelligent and expansive group of people.  HASA seems fine to= me, too.  I just haven't posted anything there...yet.

Anyway, = back to OFCs (put me on a bully pulpit and I won't get off)...

Part = of my predilection for OCs, male or female, is the challenge of characteriz= ation.  Like a lot of folks here, I'd like to try my hand at original= fiction some day, so I use my sometimes awkward  exercises w/ OCs wit= hin Tolkien's mythos to "practice" and to see if I can reach a reader or th= ree with them.  So, while each and every OFC I write would tickle or f= all into the "danger zone" of the hilariously stupid (can you sense my cont= empt?) Mary Sue Litmus test, I merrily go on my way and attempt to write th= ese women. Two are quasi-canonical (they existed but Tolkien never named th= em) and one which is flagrantly non-canonical but serves as my vehicle for = commentary on a number of aspects of Tolkien's world view that indeed makes= its way into his stories.   Although they are love interests for= canon or non-canonical characters, that is not the sum total of their exis= tence. 

So, getting back to your excerpts, Tinni -- like oshun= , my curiosity is piqued.  What is it about this lively woman o= f the Moriquendi who has attracted Caranthir so powerfully?   That's = the first thing that hits me when I read your prose.  Oh, and I lik= e her red hair.  My daughter's hair is a beautiful shade of dark a= uburn, almost wine-red.  Oh, crud...verging into Mary Sue territory he= re! :^D 




I have been truly blessed by stumbling onto OSA early on before I knew what a flamer was. I posted a few stories thinking I was a pretty good writer and the stories were good (hell they liked them on AFF!) A few slaps on the wrists at OSA for numerous mistakes in canon and lack of beta'ing and I was ready to call it quits there. Before I could even think to delete my story, I was PM'ed by a few of the writers there who gave me helpful concrit. Then they proceeded to take me under their wing so to speak and teach me about the goodness of beta'ing, things like what the heck 'canon' was and that LaCE wasn't just part of your unmentionables. If it hadn't been for the helping hand I received over there by writers I really respect like Viv, Elliska, Haleth, SilverMoonLady, Thurinel, and NancyBrooke (and others), I would never have stuck around. And in a typical pay it forward way, I held out my hand to others who had stumbling starts there too. Its amazing what some of the writers that started off pretty rough have turned into!! I had a similar situation happen when I joined HASA as well (which I had long been afraid of because I heard it was a bunch of canon-nazis lol)

 

So it does really bother me to see these people posting their first attempts getting ripped on other places. That person could be the next Tolkien or JK Rowling and just need a little help starting out to really blossom into something incredible.

 



 

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 

--0-1058479042-1213732806=:98260-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2032 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57766 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 21:05:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2008 21:05:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n49c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.183) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 21:05:31 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n49.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 21:05:31 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 21:05:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jun 2008 21:05:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:05:29 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9-4780245288-6779651735=:0" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=eX1sEGMgW6oCIM0vwzkkaPpq7iJ-pXPc5bqACEIIXT6C1Twkag X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --9-4780245288-6779651735=:0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What bothers me most is how much drastically worse the situation has gotte= n. Fanfiction.net was never a particularly classy place, but I seem to rem= ember a time when one could sometimes get halfway decent feedback, and fear= of getting flamed was more paranoia than anything serious. Of course, the= re have always been flames, and there have always been prejudices; it's jus= t that, in the past couple years, things have gotten out of hand. Nowadays= , it feels like as soon as newcomers join the site, they see flamers everyw= here, and assume that they have to suck up to these people, and join in. I= t's just ridiculous. And we can sit here having interesting debates over w= hose OFC is more misunderstood than whose slashfic, but in the end, both ar= e getting attacked by a bunch of incredibly ignorant and unpleasant people.= I am less concerned about people here, who know that these flamers are ma= inly a bunch of losers, as I am concerned about people we're never going to= know because they've gotten scared off before we could meet them. And I d= on't know what to do about it, but is anybody going to deny that we need to= do *something*? --9-4780245288-6779651735=:0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

What bothers me most is how much drastically worse= the situation has gotten.  Fanfiction.net was never a pa= rticularly classy place, but I seem to remember a time when one could somet= imes get halfway decent feedback, and fear of getting flamed was more paran= oia than anything serious.  Of course, there have always = been flames, and there have always been prejudices; it's just that, in the = past couple years, things have gotten out of hand.  Nowad= ays, it feels like as soon as newcomers join the site, they see flamers eve= rywhere, and assume that they have to suck up to these people, and join in.=   It's just ridiculous.  And we can sit= here having interesting debates over whose OFC is more misunderstood than = whose slashfic, but in the end, both are getting attacked by a bunch of inc= redibly ignorant and unpleasant people.  I am less concer= ned about people here, who know that these flamers are mainly a bunch of lo= sers, as I am concerned about people we're never going to know because they= 've gotten scared off before we could meet them.  And I d= on't know what to do about it, but is anybody going to deny that we need to= do *something*?

--9-4780245288-6779651735=:0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2033 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42301 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 00:21:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 00:21:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n33b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.215) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 00:21:12 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n33.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 00:21:12 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 00:21:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 00:21:12 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:21:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=_3hdBloQjbRk7KOrcMrXkzjxw1rwaIXZMq_nbd-iFtRA4OYak2VtZ2T19A X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Well, well, after defend OFCs when I have in the past hang a few out to dr= y as Mary-sues I am now the great defender of ff.net. But then I guess I c= an be because my number of flames received is so much lower then both the = number of stories I have up there AND the number of positive reviews I hav= e received. I guess my big thing with flames is that there is usually a h= air seperating a flame from a legitimate criticism. Just like Mary-sues, = it can be in the mind of the reader of said criticism. I remember a few ye= ars ago now pointing out to an author the multiple canonical mistakes he h= ad made in his fic. For example, he had said Ecthelion was a sinda lord an= d in the author's note explained that he didn't know whetehr Ecthelion was= sindar or noldo so decided to make him sinda. I point out to him that Ect= helion was in fact a noldo. This was done in an email and I remember getti= ng back a reply that wondered if I wasn't taking things too seriously give= n that this was just fanfiction. How do you respond to something like that= ! Yes, I get it. It is fanfiction, it is for fun, but truly mean that we c= an't say anything if it isn't good? Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt t= hat folks in this group can tell the difference between constructive criti= sm and a flame that is nothing but a flame. BUT then folks on this list ca= n also tell the difference between a good OFC and a bad OFC, a good slash = and bad slash. But a lot of people can't or perhaps it's their emotions an= d prior experience that colours their thinking and they can't pick out th= e differences any more. And ff.net can do that. You spend enough time the= re and you head will become muddled and you'll be more confused then when = you started. That being said, ff.net does serve a very important purpose. = Being unmoderated and exceedingly popular it attracts a droves of new fan= dom writers and readers, who learn about fandom much quickly because of th= e shear volumn of stuff that's there. Now of course most do not stick arou= nd, but those who do I think are probably better for the experience or at = least bitter :) For my part I don't think I'll ever stop posting stories t= here. I have stopped reading stories there, since these days the volumn (m= uch of which is flame worthy) puts me off, as my taste in fanfiction has = become very specialised. But I do think it's still a good archive to publ= ish your stories in. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "D= awn Felagund" wrote: > > Admittedly, I've had very few = direct experiences with flamers. Most of them > tend to leave me alone. I = did have one notable experience last year, which > I'm sure most everyone = has heard about by now (and, indeed, many of my > fellow SWGers were invol= ved in!), so I won't tell the whole story; it's in > my LiveJournal for an= yone who's not heard it, tagged under "fandom," iIrc, > and also linked on= my Pit of Voles profile. But it did teach me a thing or > two about the P= sychology of the Flamer. ;) > > #1 Most Important: They're cowards. There = is a *reason* why these people > pick on mostly young and inexperienced wr= iters. When they tried to pick on > some of us grouches a bit longer in th= e tooth both in terms of time on Arda > and experience with writing, they = learned that we pick back. Horrors! We > were banned from commenting on fo= rums where we were under discussion, and > those where we had already gott= en in quite a word edgewise were deleted. > > I've tried to start convers= ations with people on the Pit forums about > writing reviews. None of them= want to talk about it. Valar forbid they > should have to directly confro= nt the uselessness and idiocy and outright > cruelty of their actions! But= they will engage in discourse with kids who > make arguments like, "Such-= and-Such-Flamer says that he's a magazine editor, > and I believe him beca= use he's really good at grammar" or seriously think > that the First Amend= ment to the American Constitution grants people > the right to flame storie= s. (I am not trying to pick on young authors here > but merely to point ou= t that *grown-ups* who won't engage in a debate with > anyone older than f= ourteen are cowards. Plain and simple. It's along the > lines of Mancheste= r United taking pride in beating my hometown of > Manchester, Maryland's pe= ewee soccer team. A peewee soccer team that gets > its butt whipped by Man= chester United has nothing to be ashamed of. If > you've been writing for = twenty years and you need to pick on someone who's > been writing for twen= ty days ... seriously, think about that.) > > Of course, it's easy for me = to say that flamers are just cowards and should > be treated as such. I ha= ve a fairly steady readership, and I've also been > writing long enough--a= nd gotten my feelings hurt enough--to develop > something of a go-to-hell a= ttitude where people liking my stories is > concerned. At some point, I rea= lized that the opinions of idiots like those > on ff.net just don't matter= . But when I was younger and just starting, I > don't think I would have s= urvived that sort of thing as an author either. I > would have taken my to= ys from the sandbox and gone home. Unfortunately, > young authors "grow up= " on ff.net, so what goes on there becomes normal > behavior to them. They= learn that to be a writer means opening yourself to > abuse, and if you w= ant to be a "real" writer in the "real" world, then you'd > better get use= d to it because publishing and selling your "real" writing is > just one s= adistic experience after another, so you should *thank* those who > are ta= king their time to groom you and your Legomances for this later > opportun= ity. The first time I saw a flamer suggest that authors should > be *thank= ing > her* for her flames on their stories, I wondered why, if I had to be= dropped > into what was clearly a fantasy universe, it couldn't be the Hou= se of Feanor > in Tirion during the Years of the Trees. Somewhere next to = Maedhros. ;) > > But it's the treatment of young writers that makes my bl= ood boil because > such a big part of writing stuff that one intends to sh= are is getting the > courage to share it. I was already published for o-fi= c when I started > posting AMC on my LiveJournal, and I would get physical= ly ill on posting > days, convinced that, at any moment, someone would rou= nd the corner and tell > me what a fraud I was as an author. Luckily, no o= ne did. If they had ... who > knows. > > Dawn > > On 6/17/08, Alassante7= wrote: > > I was over on FF.net the other day and looked = at some of the comments on > other stories out of curiousity. Ones that th= e plot summary made me think it > might be a target for flames. And it see= med like everyone I picked had at > least one flame. Some of them had page= s of flames and I wondered how these > people keep writing with that kind = of feedback. I would have given up long > ago if I had been flamed as badl= y as some of these people. Do they deserve > some concrit on their writing= ? Most likely - we all do. But I don't > understand what kind of ego it tak= es for a person to decide that they have > the right to rip apart someone'= s work like that. Its like people who think > because someone is famous th= ey have a right to pry into every aspect of > their life. They 'put themse= lves out there' so they deserve to have their > intimate secrets sprawled = across a magazine cover. The flamers must have > really pitiful lives in R= L to be so bitter and hateful. To me thats worse > than anyone writing a s= elf insert, Mary Sue/Gary Stu, slash, or > OhMyGoDLeGoLAs is so KEWL fic. >= > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2034 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83630 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 00:30:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 00:30:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.159) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 00:30:22 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 00:30:22 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 00:30:22 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 00:30:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:30:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=wKBnGFxU0-QgDT1cphcR-MpNDm1FN8_YNVtc93RGQtEwh2kA_vfGDTd20Q X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Has it really? I mean I still post there but I don't read stories there mu= ch. Just the old stuff that's on my log and I still enjoy reading. I can't= really say my reviews have become more negative over time. Just few and f= ar between. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Feta" wrote: > > > What bothers me most is how much drastically wor= se the situation has > gotten. Fanfiction.net was never a particularly cla= ssy place, but I > seem to remember a time when one could sometimes get hal= fway decent > feedback, and fear of getting flamed was more paranoia than a= nything > serious. Of course, there have always been flames, and there hav= e > always been prejudices; it's just that, in the past couple years, > thi= ngs have gotten out of hand. Nowadays, it feels like as soon as > newcomer= s join the site, they see flamers everywhere, and assume that > they have = to suck up to these people, and join in. It's just > ridiculous. And we c= an sit here having interesting debates over whose > OFC is more misunderst= ood than whose slashfic, but in the end, both are > getting attacked by a = bunch of incredibly ignorant and unpleasant > people. I am less concerned = about people here, who know that these > flamers are mainly a bunch of lose= rs, as I am concerned about people > we're never going to know because they= 've gotten scared off > before we could meet them. And I don't know what t= o do about it, > but is anybody going to deny that we need to do *something= *? > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2035 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16717 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 00:49:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 00:49:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n15b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.119) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 00:49:31 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 00:49:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 00:49:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 00:49:31 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:49:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9-0577224913-0754406450=:5" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Slash vs. Mary Sue X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=-NetpcOZ8LYRyzlFFWcnQyCVauyDzHGWwdD8iv6gu41eb8rmZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --9-0577224913-0754406450=:5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Has it really? I mean I still post there but I don't read stories > there= much. Just the old stuff that's on my log and I still enjoy > reading. I c= an't really say my reviews have become more negative over > time. Just few = and far between. Maybe it hasn't. Maybe I've just gotten more observant,= or I'm looking at the wrong stories. Maybe I just read and write more "ob= jectionable" stories than I used to. But actually, it's an interesting que= stion for everyone: Am I imagining things, or has fanfiction.net gotten di= stinctively more hostile in the past year or two? --9-0577224913-0754406450=:5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Has it really? I mean I still post there but I don't read stories <= br>> there much. Just the old stuff that's on my log and I still enjoy <= br>> reading. I can't really say my reviews have become more negative ov= er
> time. Just few and far between.

Maybe it hasn't.  Maybe I've just gotten more observ= ant, or I'm looking at the wrong stories.  Maybe I just r= ead and write more "objectionable" stories than I used to.  But actually, it's an interesting question for everyone:

Am I imagining things, or has fanfiction.net gotten distinct= ively more hostile in the past year or two?

--9-0577224913-0754406450=:5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2036 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57464 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 01:33:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 01:33:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.207) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 01:33:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 01:33:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 01:33:53 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 01:33:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: critism, OFCs, slash and other boleyn girl X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=ZukRuYensuJ9fFr2gQenxA-le1VL0mLztG_TjqQa2gqy_MKQBJEVpg_lEg X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked I just finished reading The Other Boleyn Girl and it kind of reminded me o= f what Silmarillion fanfics are. I mean, unlike the Lord of the Rings, the= Silmarillion above anything else is a history book with "historical chara= cters" about whom precious little is known. So in many ways when we write = Silmarillin fanfics we are doing the same thing as Philippa Gregory did wi= th Mary Boleyn and every other historical figure who were around during th= at period of time in The Other Boleyn Girl. She developed a personality fo= r the people and gave them stories that seemed plausable enough. HOWEVER,= having read The Other Boleyn Girl I find that it is an AU with many of th= e hallmarks of a bad fanfiction. Forgetting the historical (canon) in accu= racies, she inflated Mary Boleyn at the expense of Anne. She reduced Anne = to little more then a cunning slut, ignoring all her good qualities and ev= en making her be cruel to Elizabeth when history says she was kind. There = was also slash in the story in the from of Anne's brother George and just = like with Maedhros/Fingon history just says that he was just friends with = the man who became his lover in the book. Now wikipedia tell me that The = Other Boleyn Girl was critisied for some of the precious reasons I found a= ppalling. Don't get me wrong, the book was interesting enough to read, jus= t many AU fanfics were, but... Anyway, the reason I bring this up is that = the book and it's wiki entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Boley= n_Girl) made me think how much of a parallel there is between fanfiction = and "original works" for lack of a better work. I think this is something = we tend to forget. More accuratly i think it has something to do with the = question of whether we have a "that irrespective of the sources used, Greg= ory has an artistic license as an author of fiction to construct whatever = story she feels is appropriate" as the defenders of Philippa Gregory have = stated. I mean, obviously tastes differ. I for one will never recommend th= e book simply because it is so historically inaccurate but it is certainly= a popular book. Which also brings me to the other parallel, during our di= scussion we have mentioned many fics that are well plotted and are not pop= ular and many fics that are popular but not that good. I think that respec= t we also have tendency to forget that readers are hard to predict. You = never know what they will like and what they will hate. I.e. a canonically= accurate fanfiction with all canon cast that well plotted and charactaris= ed is not the way to fandom success. -Tinni who felt like rambling. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2037 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15866 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 02:04:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 02:04:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.180) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 02:04:42 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a77so43810pyh.33 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:04:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.156.2 with SMTP id d2mr3508626wfe.271.1213754681202; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:04:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.44.19 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:04:41 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9827_3394403.1213754681191" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Slash vs. Mary Sue X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=GBkLtZ143EQaNh-hIGSZbW-ccI-DEvBhVFqTcjF0myVYmY9DhlSg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_9827_3394403.1213754681191-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2038 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15433 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 04:03:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 04:03:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 04:03:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 04:03:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 04:03:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 04:03:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=Yh0NNb-0A_MZkIhfgCBMvGwGk_C4SwTyYv8EYPbdQc5T7URkaBIS1casJA X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked As I was reading your post Human Nature by Bjork came up on random rotatio= n on my MP3. I think it's a sign :) Anyway the behaviour you describe is q= uite normal for ff.net and has always, always been that way. I first disco= vered ff.net way, way, way back in 1999, when I was a 17 year old angst ri= ddled 17 year old... ok I wasn't that angst riddled but I had angst. Back = then it was new and struggling. The founder was supporting the site from h= is own pocket and was always asking for help from members as it was becomi= ng increasingly difficult for him to support the site. Back then the site= really did leave upto it's motto of "Unlease your imagination". You could= find everything and anything there. NC-17 stories, Yuri, Yaoi and yes if = you haven't inferred from the terms used the fandom that drew me first to = ff.net was an anime. Dragonball Z to be precise. Believe me, nothing, noth= ing you have seen in Silmarillion fandom will EVER prepare you for the sav= age pitt of blades that is an anime fandom. Teenagers with little life exp= erience savaging other teenagers with little life experience. Everybody wa= s stupid, everything was Kewl. Maturity? What's that! And flame wars were = daily entertainment. However, here is the thing about flame wars or flame= s in general. Back in 1999 the 17 year old Tinni would worry constantly ab= out flames. She would post a story then go off to her yahoo group full of = fandom friends and worry about getting flamed. She never did and when she= didn't get any flames she became depressed - why isn't anyone flaming me!= don't they care! Indeed one of the authors who was floating around in the= DBZ fandom at the time would constantly talk about the flames he had gott= en but the thing was I had never seen him get a flame. However his constan= t harping eventually did get him a flamer and the only reason she flamed h= im because she felt he was asking for it. Which in many ways he was. But i= t was all a game and if any long term harm was done then I don't know of i= t. I started getting flames eventually but not as much as some but a lot = more then others. I think in many ways the teenage Tinni was happy with th= e flames. Hey someone cared enough to spew bile! My point is, that as some= one who has been with ff.net from almost the very beginning it was always = a rough place and also that the teenage mind is a strange beast... or perh= aps it just my mind... Anyway, the Tinni who is about to turn 27 in Septem= ber no longer thinks that lack of flames or even reviews matter much. She = knows now that you shouldn't force yourself to write for the masses. She i= sn't afraid to write a story full of OFCs in love with/married to canon c= haracters. She knows that she must be true to the story in her mind and no= t water it down for the benefit of fickle reader. She also now writes silm= arillion fics, which does by far have a higher mean age of authors and rea= ders then the anime fandom 17 year told Tinni was involved in and that doe= s make a difference. 17 year told Tinni could not only not have the conver= sation that's been taking place here but it would not have occured to her = to have such a conversation. -Tinni who is feeling naustalgic for the days= of her youth... --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Fe= lagund" wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:49 PM, Fet= a wrote: > > Am I imagining things, or has fanfiction.net = gotten distinctively more > hostile in the past year or two? > > I agree = that it has. ff.net was the first archive that I discovered. I was > bored= at work one day and started doing Google searches of > *Silmarillion*chara= cters, and when I searched "nerdanel," lo, a fanfic > on > ff.net by the a= uthor Nerdanel was the first result. So I clicked. > > I'd never heard of = fanfic before then, although I'd already started working > on my first two= : the "Feanorian Chronicles" play and "Election Farce of > Nargothrond." I= was fascinated! Here I thought I'd had an original idea in > writing stor= ies based on *The Silmarillion*! But I was quickly hooked and > spent *a l= ot* of my first year with the WAU surfing ff.net before the > Maryland gov= ernment got wise and blocked it. ;) > > I used to see a lot of authors tal= k about flames in their author's notes: > that stern posturing along the l= ines of "All flames will be used by Feanor > in his forge!" i.e., "You can= 't hurt me, so don't even try." But I > *never*saw an actual flame. I looke= d, believe me; I was such a n00b > that I had no > clue what a flame was, t= hough I suspected I'd know it when I saw it! > Actually, the first flames I= saw came with the first Mary Sue (by my > definition) that I found in Silm= fic, also on ff.net. By then, I was starting > to get involved with fandom= and had probably been reading it for almost a > year, almost entirely on = ff.net. > > I think the vitriol of the site has increased since they (re)o= pened the > forums. Now there are entire forums set aside for flamers to = congratulate > each other for their witty (and usually misspelled) abuse of= teenagers; > there are entire forums for people to gather and mock author= s whose work > they don't like and organize to gang up on and humiliate pe= ople. It's kind > of funny because one of my old complaints about ff.net w= as how it wasn't > really a *community*; back then, there was no way to co= mmunicate with > reviewers short of leaving them notes in your chapters (w= hich was not > allowed, and authors I knew got their wrists slapped for do= ing it), so it > felt almost like reviews occurred in a vacuum. I guess th= is is a lesson in > being careful what you wish for: Now there *is* commun= ity, but it's not for > discussing ideas about writing and canon or even t= he experience of fandom as > it is to mock and hurt and belittle what we c= annot ourselves appreciate. > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2039 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65240 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 13:50:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 13:50:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 13:50:37 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so228726waf.6 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 06:50:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.73.20 with SMTP id a20mr739316wal.213.1213797037063; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 06:50:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 06:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:50:36 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20541_9198857.1213797037058" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=D936iXlFIlU5h1WCCcdDdfD3JTp0ZI9mnqkidySpPTkHuWg8ag0l X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_20541_9198857.1213797037058-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2040 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68970 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 14:22:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 14:22:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.183) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 14:22:53 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so112503pyb.12 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:22:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.15.16 with SMTP id 16mr815254wao.113.1213798972788; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:22:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:22:52 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20746_4355841.1213798972788" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=X3WJabOGtomEwQ1OlpRnvQHz47bQ0YQHqRzbhEeK_jsK048Rxi-g X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_20746_4355841.1213798972788-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2041 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6579 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 14:39:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 14:39:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n48a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 14:39:13 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n48.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 14:39:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 14:39:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 14:39:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:39:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=Nqh-7XLLsnZoDAco9oQzsqRJoonkiHHDvBYAV2Lc9H450w88z0edQg3Ccg X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Like I said, Silmarillion fandom and indeed Tolkien fandom in general does= have a higher mean age. However, I do agree that that doesn't necessarily= mean that the flamers are any more mature. But I do think that overall th= ere is less of them. I mean, with me, my flamers in the Silmarillion fando= m came from HASA, not ff.net. I have generally been treated kindly on ff.n= et Silmarillion section. Some years ago now, when I was REALLY active in = fandom, I had some really ugly spats and flame wars with a bunch of people= old enough to be my mother. Indeed most of them were my mother's age. I d= o not however think that these people are motivated by the same things tha= t motivated the largly young (teenager to early 20s) who hang around in th= e anima fandoms. The older Silmarillion flamers are, usually speaking, def= ending their territory. The attitude I got from my flamers were along the = lines of "I have been into Tolkien from before you were born!" (which is l= iterally true) "You think you know more than me! You think your fanfiction= is better then mine! Listen and learn youngester! I'll tell you what is = and isn't good fanfiction". More then any fanfiction I wrote, I got more t= hen my fair share of bile for canonnofanon.net. Don't get me wrong, after = appropriate filtering some of the bile did end up helping me make a better= site then I would have otherwise. However, the bile was totally unnecess= ary, I was always open to suggestions... as long as the suggestion wasn't = "go away! we don't need your site!". I mean, some day my site will disappe= ar. If ever google analytics tells me that my site visitor rate has droppe= d to less then 10 for 3-4 months or I can't justify the expense of keeping= it up, it'll go. But it won't go because of flamers. Anyway, getting bac= k to the subject at hand. I am still unconvinced that ff.net has more flam= ers (in terms of ratio and percentage becasue ff.net would have more flame= rs because it just get's more visitors) then any other place. I think it a= ll depends on people's personal experiences. For example, my experiences w= ith HASA has always been a bit on the bitter side. But I don't think HASA = has more flamers then any other place, I just think that my style of writi= ng is not as suited to the tastes of the frequent visitors to HASA as the= y might on some other archive. If that all makes sense. -Tinni --- In Sil= marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" = wrote: > > Tinni, we're the same age! I'll also be 27 in September. :) > >= So I'm not that far out of high school not to remember the random cruelty= > that is just kids being kids. In fact, one of my first encounters with = my > husband came when I was being abused at lunch by another kid for bein= g a > vegetarian, and my intimidatingly large husband swept in to my rescu= e. I was > a geek and an activist, and the combination of the two didn't e= ndear me to a > lot of my peers. :) I was also shy ... then, anyway. ;) > = > So my issue with ff.net isn't with kids picking on kids. That's a differ= ent > can of worms entirely, methinks. But as an adult--at least legally-- = I find > it reprehensible and downright pathetic when adults behave cruelly= to > teenagers. These people wield their adult authority and experience = against > ... kids? Pathetic. > > I can't comment on other fandoms, since = I've limited myself to Tolkien, and > 99% of that to Silmfic. But within S= ilmfic, most of the people I see > behaving like idiots are my age or older= and all of them are on ff.net. > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund= > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2042 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46457 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 14:46:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 14:46:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n36b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.150) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 14:46:53 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 14:46:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 14:46:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 14:46:53 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:46:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=f5oZXh-3LkeIGHOHfYE6f741OVLIp3h6KaTyGrwjdtO4apCDhXTJQY5t0A X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked I would like to respectfully disagree in relation to HASA. I mean just bec= ause you don't see the flame doesn't mean the flaming isn't happening. It'= s happening, just that the flamers in HASA do in private. Trust me on this= . I think at the end of the day the difference between ff.net and other ar= chives is that in ff.net the flame wars happen out on the open. But believ= e me the private battles are actually worse because in those cases it's no= t so much about a public spectacule but something deeper - an actual desir= e to hurt the person involved. -Tinni --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@ya= hoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > On 6/17/08, F= eta wrote: > > And we can sit here having interesting deba= tes over whose OFC is more > misunderstood than whose slashfic, but in the= end, both are getting attacked > by a bunch of incredibly ignorant and un= pleasant people. I am less > concerned about people here, who know that th= ese flamers are mainly a bunch > of losers, as I am concerned about people= we're never going to know because > they've gotten scared off before we c= ould meet them. And I don't know what > to do about it, but is anybody go= ing to deny that we need to do *something*? > > I don't think there's an = easy answer to that dilemma. :) I mean, our doors > are open, as are those= of numerous other archives; I directly invite people > to SWG from ff.net= who seem like they're there for writing and not for the > usual drama and= wank. Some come over, some don't. I keep up the links in my > profile to = last year's drama over the idiocy of certain reviewers in the * > Silmaril= lion* section and the links to statements on other sites supporting > thos= e authors who have borne said reviewers' abuse, even though it's very > mu= ch old news and I've long since put it behind me. I do get PMs or LJ > com= ments from folks on ff.net who have read these posts and are encouraged > = by the fact that not everyone in fandom is an asshat, so that makes it > w= orthwhile, methinks. :) > > The ironic thing, when talking to new or young= authors in the Tolkien > fandom, is that many cite not wanting to come to= sites like SWG, HASA, OSA, > or SoA because these sites intimidate them. = The writers there are so > talented, they say, and they could never put the= ir own work next to those > people's stories! I suppose they figure if the= y get flamed on a place that > has, in the opinion of many, earned its mon= iker "the Pit of Voles" for the > wealth of crapfic available there, then = what would they get on sites where a > good number of the authors have bee= n writing for years and have numerous > accolades attached to their storie= s? > > Of course, as far as I know, none of the above-mentioned sites all= ow flames. > And I *do* know that all of the above-mentioned sites have act= ive members > who make it a priority to give a helping hand to newcomers. = That's the > culture of these groups, vastly different from the culture of= ff.net. I > mean, it is very indicative when authors from ff.net put in t= heir SWG > profiles, "Please don't flame me." Flames are not allowed on SW= G; I don't > think our Site Etiquette and ToS--which everyone must read a= nd "sign" before > joining the archive--could be any clearer on that. But I= think it's just so > hard for someone who's only known ff.net to understa= nd that concept or > understand how seriously those of us who started and = run the group take it. > > I think that's all that we can do: keep encour= aging authors to post their > work in other places and hopefully learn tha= t not everyone behaves like > pissed-off cavemen. :) Keep giving positive = feedback on stories and > legitimate concrit to authors who want it; keep e= ncouraging those who have > been abused. Numerous people here do that, I k= now. Beyond that, if I have > seen anything in my years in fandom, it's th= at ff.net is not going to change > unless it benefits them to do so and gi= ven the number of page clicks the > forums get for their ad-ridden pages, = I don't think we should hope for > anything like that anytime soon. > > D= awn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2043 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86272 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 14:55:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 14:55:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 14:55:41 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j40so215054wah.15 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:55:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.75.6 with SMTP id x6mr859212waa.187.1213800940897; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:55:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:55:40 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21100_24445872.1213800940906" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=UNu0Jk5ZxQdor1X06txQkazzLaWLMk88MFRfvY-WOTQxvufpvgNS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_21100_24445872.1213800940906-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2044 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24860 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 15:00:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 15:00:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.179) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 15:00:46 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id y77so102730pyg.28 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:00:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.76.1 with SMTP id d1mr865526wal.207.1213801246058; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:00:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:00:45 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21117_28515470.1213801246060" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=LGPzvsKMMNQ-w1qd_hXq3K2tdW8PUTY_4pc-JiqohARbhQTiY3oH X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_21117_28515470.1213801246060-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2045 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58550 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 15:46:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 15:46:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 15:46:59 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 21266 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Jun 2008 15:46:59 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:46:58 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:46:58 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1930064507-1213804018=:21024" Message-ID: <926409.21024.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=3V0Pe0UzwKr8T3iifHTrnJBa_CviLXorZe99kIrmWJVpLFjMNQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1930064507-1213804018=:21024 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As someone who knows the admins on OSA (www.openscrolls.net) personally as = well as being a mod there, I can tell you - they do not allow flames of any= kind, public or private. Its just not allowed there at all. If you ever re= ceive one, you would of course have to report it but you'd be surprised at = how quickly the issue is resolved. Most flamers don't bother even joining b= ecause they have been run off so many times. The big incident that Dawn is = referring to that happened on FF.net last year (okay I'll be the one to say= it in print - with Homer and co.) - the flamers in the forum were complain= ing because OSA had managed to block their IP so=A0they couldn't join. (don= 't ask me how because I'm not a web tech person) The big thing with the adm= in at OSA that makes me extremely loyal is they protect their writers. Peri= od. Not just their favorite ones, not when they get around to it, they go t= he extra mile to protect everyone who posts there.=A0I don't mean the codd= le us but they make it a safe enviroment to post without worrying about any= one treating you badly. And as I said the other day, the writers are very h= elpful to new people as well. =A0 In my personal experience and from everyt= hing I have heard about HASA - its a tough place to post if you submit some= thing for review. But in all fairness, nothing I have ever received from a = review was too harsh or a flame. Blunt and honest -yes, but mean spirited o= r a flame - no. The only times I have heard about people getting flamed or = abusive treatment via private mails or reviews -=A0 HASA acted quickly and = handled it when it was reported so I would think its safe=A0to say HASA eit= her has changed or has always been less likely to have flamers either. I wo= uld say the same of SoA. =A0 I know I was thrilled when I found SWG on LJ = because I had heard how Silm writers were a vicious bunch of canon-nazis an= d everyone cowered before them. I had read the Silm and started dabbling in= it a bit but was terrified to post outside of SoA and OSA for a long time.= When I did finally post on SWG, I was overwhelmed with the good response I= received. So when SWG became an archive, I think it will change the way pe= ople view Silm writers in general. People won't be scared to post their stu= mbling starts anymore and I think it will grow over time. With the book Chi= ldren of Hurin and the Hobbit movie coming out, I still see a resurge comin= g in all things Tolkien so its great that we have a way to post Silm fics w= ith our peers in a supportive enviroment. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kath= ye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://kso= uza.avonrepresentative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Wed, 6/18/08, Dawn Felagund= wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: Th= e Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@y= ahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 11:00 AM On 6/18/08, = Tinni wrote: > I would like to respectfully d= isagree in relation to HASA. I mean > just because you don't see the flame= doesn't mean the flaming isn't > happening. It's happening, just that the= flamers in HASA do in > private. =A0 That's why I said "as far as I know.= " :) I'm not affiliated with HASA, so I understand their policies only as a= casual user of the site, as I am a casual user of all of the sites I menti= oned, except for SWG. Indeed, SWG is the only group where I can claim to be= an expert on the policies at all ... as well I should be! ;) =A0 And, for = that reason, I don't usually recommend people to join groups other than my = own. If they ask, I'll give my honest opinion but otherwise don't think I'm= the person to comment on whether a particular author is a good fit at a pa= rticular site or not. =A0 Dawn =A0 -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillion= wri tersguild. org --0-1930064507-1213804018=:21024 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

As someone who knows the admins on OSA (www.openscrolls.net) personally as well as being a mod there, I can tell you - they do not allow flames of any kind, public or private. Its just not allowed there at all. If you ever receive one, you would of course have to report it but you'd be surprised at how quickly the issue is resolved. Most flamers don't bother even joining because they have been run off so many times. The big incident that Dawn is referring to that happened on FF.net last year (okay I'll be the one to say it in print - with Homer and co.) - the flamers in the forum were complaining because OSA had managed to block their IP so they couldn't join. (don't ask me how because I'm not a web tech person) The big thing with the admin at OSA that makes me extremely loyal is they protect their writers. Period. Not just their favorite ones, not when they get around to it, they go the extra mile to protect everyone who posts there. I don't mean the coddle us but they make it a safe enviroment to post without worrying about anyone treating you badly. And as I said the other day, the writers are very helpful to new people as well.

 

In my personal experience and from everything I have heard about HASA - its a tough place to post if you submit something for review. But in all fairness, nothing I have ever received from a review was too harsh or a flame. Blunt and honest -yes, but mean spirited or a flame - no. The only times I have heard about people getting flamed or abusive treatment via private mails or reviews -  HASA acted quickly and handled it when it was reported so I would think its safe to say HASA either has changed or has always been less likely to have flamers either. I would say the same of SoA.

 

I know I was thrilled when I found SWG on LJ because I had heard how Silm writers were a vicious bunch of canon-nazis and everyone cowered before them. I had read the Silm and started dabbling in it a bit but was terrified to post outside of SoA and OSA for a long time. When I did finally post on SWG, I was overwhelmed with the good response I received. So when SWG became an archive, I think it will change the way people view Silm writers in general. People won't be scared to post their stumbling starts anymore and I think it will grow over time. With the book Children of Hurin and the Hobbit movie coming out, I still see a resurge coming in all things Tolkien so its great that we have a way to post Silm fics with our peers in a supportive enviroment.

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Wed, 6/18/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...)
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 11:00 AM

On 6/18/08, Tinni <sharminchoudhury@ yahoo.com> wrote:
> I would like to respectfully disagree in relation to HASA. I mean
> just because you don't see the flame doesn't mean the flaming isn't
> happening. It's happening, just that the flamers in HASA do in
> private.
 
That's why I said "as far as I know." :) I'm not affiliated with HASA, so I understand their policies only as a casual user of the site, as I am a casual user of all of the sites I mentioned, except for SWG. Indeed, SWG is the only group where I can claim to be an expert on the policies at all ... as well I should be! ;)
 
And, for that reason, I don't usually recommend people to join groups other than my own. If they ask, I'll give my honest opinion but otherwise don't think I'm the person to comment on whether a particular author is a good fit at a particular site or not.
 
Dawn
 

--0-1930064507-1213804018=:21024-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2046 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77895 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 18:07:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 18:07:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.176) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 18:07:23 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n7so259382wag.13 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:07:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.91.2 with SMTP id t2mr1222075wal.62.1213812443425; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:07:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:07:23 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <926409.21024.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_576_4230790.1213812443427" References: <926409.21024.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ptCNHk_aooi9NGxRCzvyKOXFG6d_P-EBZRAO50NPrN4_h7kU8_iV X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_576_4230790.1213812443427-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2047 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37548 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 18:38:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 18:38:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 18:38:37 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 88166 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Jun 2008 18:38:37 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:38:37 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:38:37 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1315825658-1213814317=:87867" Message-ID: <357050.87867.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=kJq8ALTRpMlzq9_yI4f9_U7wxEZk-d0wGWj1KLBzPOj42fYEpg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1315825658-1213814317=:87867 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable one of my closest fandom friends was told that Silmfic was automatically su= perior to anything else written based on Tolkien's works. I think that th= ought was based largely on the fact that there were no writers of Movie ver= se in the fandom. When I first started Movie verse was equal to crapfic, Ma= ry Sue, self insert, etc etc etc. And that was also where the teenage fangi= rls came into the scene. Legolas, Haldir, Eomer, Aragorn, and most others= =A0in LOTR were brought to life and you had a visual for them. There is not= hing wrong with=A0writing in movie verse, IMO, if thats what you want to do= .=A0But you will have to answer to those book/canon readers who will point = out the 'Haldir wasn't really at Helm's Deep ya know?' But if you put the s= tory under the category of Movie Verse - I think that reviewers should go i= nto it with the realization that you *chose* to write that verse and should= not be held to the events that were in the book. =A0 I just posted a birth= day fic I wrote about Legolas for a friend on FF.net. I'm interested to see= if I will get my first flame there. I noticed on the 'just in' page that a= certain reviewer had gone down the list and flamed 8 out of 10 that I look= ed at. I think this person looked for Legolas fictions to flame lol ~~*= *~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come whe= n you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ =A0 = --0-1315825658-1213814317=:87867 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

one of my closest fandom friends was told that Silmfic was automatically superior to anything else written based on Tolkien's works.

I think that thought was based largely on the fact that there were no writers of Movie verse in the fandom. When I first started Movie verse was equal to crapfic, Mary Sue, self insert, etc etc etc. And that was also where the teenage fangirls came into the scene. Legolas, Haldir, Eomer, Aragorn, and most others in LOTR were brought to life and you had a visual for them. There is nothing wrong with writing in movie verse, IMO, if thats what you want to do. But you will have to answer to those book/canon readers who will point out the 'Haldir wasn't really at Helm's Deep ya know?' But if you put the story under the category of Movie Verse - I think that reviewers should go into it with the realization that you *chose* to write that verse and should not be held to the events that were in the book.

 

I just posted a birthday fic I wrote about Legolas for a friend on FF.net. I'm interested to see if I will get my first flame there. I noticed on the 'just in' page that a certain reviewer had gone down the list and flamed 8 out of 10 that I looked at. I think this person looked for Legolas fictions to flame lol

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 

--0-1315825658-1213814317=:87867-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2048 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87223 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 18:46:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 18:46:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n36b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.150) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 18:46:12 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 18:46:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 18:46:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2008 18:46:12 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:46:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="6-7558129613-1732231627=:8" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in the Slash Discussion Room ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=3T_dWPvvYv-AiarQOuFozeIxPmLdf0MUBcql5tj70Um6QO6uyw X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --6-7558129613-1732231627=:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I'm sure that this is frustrating. I've found that, for me, it works best= to > ask before offering concrit. Some people simply don't want it, and I = don't > want to waste my time giving it to them when there are dozens of au= thors out > there begging for concrit and wishing to improve their writing = who are > getting only praise or no reviews at all. Really? I've always g= enerally thought, you know, if someone has put it out there, it's open for = concrit. If it's not meant to be a serious story, then obviously most of u= s know better than to give serious reviews... but asking first? I'm not su= re that I'd agree with that. I'd be interested to hear people's favorite o= r most memorable reviews - not necessarily to quote them, but what are the = kinds of feedback/criticism that you've been glad to receive? For example,= the first "review" I ever got was a person who accidentally typed their au= thor's notes into the review box for my story... I think that was a good in= dicator of how my writing was going to be received. ;) --6-7558129613-1732231627=:8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I'm sure that this is frustrating. I've found that, for me, it work= s best to
> ask before offering concrit. Some people simply don't wan= t it, and I don't
> want to waste my time giving it to them when ther= e are dozens of authors out
> there begging for concrit and wishing t= o improve their writing who are
> getting only praise or no reviews a= t all.

Really?  I've always generally thought, you know, if= someone has put it out there, it's open for concrit.  If it's not mea= nt to be a serious story, then obviously most of us know better than to giv= e serious reviews... but asking first?  I'm not sure that I'd agree wi= th that.

I'd be interested to hear people's favorite or most memorab= le reviews - not necessarily to quote them, but what are the kinds of feedb= ack/criticism that you've been glad to receive?

For example, the fir= st "review" I ever got was a person who accidentally typed their author's n= otes into the review box for my story... I think that was a good indicator = of how my writing was going to be received.  ;) --6-7558129613-1732231627=:8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2049 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8745 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 18:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 18:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 18:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cf9.37250685 (48600) for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:59:11 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1213815551" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in t... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=cLcsTXKphX6NMUPbWJneh2kge8OOzHyGC6Wi0jAWh4FQ9qezjAD4 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1213815551 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think Alassante hit the crux of that attitude. When I first looked at LOTR fics, they were swamped by inferior movie verse. Fortunately, I had a friend who gave me some recs and told me where to look. The advantage to Silmfics was in order to write them one had to have read at least one book. However, on the canatic point I never got attacked for my canon when writing Silm fics, but I have had endless unpleasant canon discussions around my LOTR stories. The accusation that X character or Y character could never have done that, raised in the context of a gapfiller that is slavish canon accurate in all of its specific references. one of my closest fandom friends was told that Silmfic was automatically superior to anything else written based on Tolkien's works. I think that thought was based largely on the fact that there were no writers of Movie verse in the fandom. When I first started Movie verse was equal to crapfic, Mary Sue, self insert, etc etc etc. And that was also where the teenage fangirls came into the scene. Legolas, Haldir, Eomer, Aragorn, and most others in LOTR were brought to life and you had a visual for them. There is nothing wrong with writing in movie verse, IMO, if thats what you want to do. But you will have to answer to those book/canon readers who will point out the 'Haldir wasn't really at Helm's Deep ya know?' But if you put the story under the category of Movie Verse - I think that reviewers should go into it with the realization that you *chose* to write that verse and should not be held to the events that were in the book. I just posted a birthday fic I wrote about Legolas for a friend on FF.net. I'm interested to see if I will get my first flame there. I noticed on the 'just in' page that a certain reviewer had gone down the list and flamed 8 out of 10 that I looked at. I think this person looked for Legolas fictions to flame lol **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1213815551 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I think Ala= ssante hit the crux of that attitude. When I first looked at LOTR fic= s, they were swamped by inferior movie verse. Fortunately, I had a fr= iend who gave me some recs and told me where to look. The advantage to Sil= mfics was in order to write them one had to have read at least one book. H= owever, on the canatic point I never got attacked for my canon when writing= Silm fics, but I have had endless unpleasant canon discussions around my = LOTR stories. The accusation that X character or Y character could never h= ave done that, raised in the context of a gapfiller that is slavish canon = accurate in all of its specific references.
=

one of my closest fandom friends = was told that Silmfic was automatically superior to anything else = written based on Tolkien's works.

=

I think that thought was based largely on the fact th= at there were no writers of Movie verse in the fandom. When I firs= t started Movie verse was equal to crapfic, Mary Sue, self insert,= etc etc etc. And that was also where the teenage fangirls came in= to the scene. Legolas, Haldir, Eomer, Aragorn, and most others&nbs= p;in LOTR were brought to life and you had a visual for them. Ther= e is nothing wrong with writing in movie verse, IMO, if thats= what you want to do. But you will have to answer to those bo= ok/canon readers who will point out the 'Haldir wasn't really at H= elm's Deep ya know?' But if you put the story under the category o= f Movie Verse - I think that reviewers should go into it with the = realization that you *chose* to write that verse and should not be= held to the events that were in the book.

<= FONT size=3D2>I just posted a birthday fic I wrote about Legolas for a = friend on FF.net. I'm interested to see if I will get my first flame = there. I noticed on the 'just in' page that a certain reviewer had = gone down the list and flamed 8 out of 10 that I looked at. I thin= k this person looked for Legolas fictions to flame lol

 



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient= u= sed cars.
-------------------------------1213815551-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2050 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36228 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 19:05:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2008 19:05:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.112) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2008 19:05:52 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 24946 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2008 19:05:47 -0000 X-Received: from 80-121-85-23.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([80.121.85.23]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub96.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Jun 2008 19:05:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <48595D47.000008.02216@MARINA> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:08:55 +0200 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_VIAORN00000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in t... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=IyutolixLONyw5oi8XAj85xxoWT25UaOsnpEI9Aw8oF9w4G8Yyay X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_VIAORN00000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_VIAOMY50000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_VIAOMY50000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you tell me the name of the fic, I would love to read it. Marina =20 =20 Lithonion a Maeglin=20 www.orgsites.com/wa/maeglin www.orgsites.com/wa/lithonion =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Date: 06/18/08 20:57:23 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The E= lephant in t... =20 I think Alassante hit the crux of that attitude. When I first looked at LO= TR fics, they were swamped by inferior movie verse. Fortunately, I had a fr= iend who gave me some recs and told me where to look. The advantage to Silm= fics was in order to write them one had to have read at least one book. How= ever, on the canatic point I never got attacked for my canon when writing S= ilm fics, but I have had endless unpleasant canon discussions around my LOT= R stories. The accusation that X character or Y character could never have = done that, raised in the context of a gapfiller that is slavish canon accur= ate in all of its specific references.=20 one of my closest fandom friends was told that Silmfic was automatically s= uperior to anything else written based on Tolkien's works.=20 I think that thought was based largely on the fact that there were no writ= ers of Movie verse in the fandom. When I first started Movie verse was equa= l to crapfic, Mary Sue, self insert, etc etc etc. And that was also where t= he teenage fangirls came into the scene. Legolas, Haldir, Eomer, Aragorn, a= nd most others in LOTR were brought to life and you had a visual for them. = There is nothing wrong with writing in movie verse, IMO, if thats what you = want to do. But you will have to answer to those book/canon readers who wil= l point out the 'Haldir wasn't really at Helm's Deep ya know?' But if you p= ut the story under the category of Movie Verse - I think that reviewers sho= uld go into it with the realization that you *chose* to write that verse an= d should not be held to the events that were in the book. I just posted a birthday fic I wrote about Legolas for a friend on FF.net.= I m interested to see if I will get my first flame there. I noticed on the= just in' page that a certain reviewer had gone down the list and flamed 8= out of 10 that I looked at. I think this person looked for Legolas fiction= s to flame lol=20 =20 Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars= . =20 --------------Boundary-00=_VIAOMY50000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can you tell me the nam= e of the fic, I would love to read it.
 
Marina<= /DIV>
 
 
 
Lithonion a Maeglin

 

 
 
 
 
 
-------Original = Message-------
 
Date: 06/18/08 20:57:23
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com<= /DIV>
Subject: Re: [= SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Slash vs. Mary Sue (was: The Elephant in t...=
 

I think Alassante hi= t the crux of that attitude. When I first looked at LOTR fics, they we= re swamped by inferior movie verse. Fortunately, I had a friend who ga= ve me some recs and told me where to look. The advantage to Silmfics was in= order to write them one had to have read at least one book. However, on th= e canatic point I never got attacked for my canon when writing Silm fics, b= ut I have had endless unpleasant canon discussions around my LOTR stories. = The accusation that X character or Y character could never have done that, = raised in the context of a gapfiller that is slavish canon accurate in all = of its specific references.

one of my c= losest fandom friends was told that Silmfic was automatically superior to a= nything else written based on Tolkien's works.

=

I think that thought was based largely on the fact that t= here were no writers of Movie verse in the fandom. When I first started Mov= ie verse was equal to crapfic, Mary Sue, self insert, etc etc etc. And that= was also where the teenage fangirls came into the scene. Legolas, Haldir, = Eomer, Aragorn, and most others in LOTR were brought to life and you h= ad a visual for them. There is nothing wrong with writing in movie ver= se, IMO, if thats what you want to do. But you will have to answer to = those book/canon readers who will point out the 'Haldir wasn't really at He= lm's Deep ya know?' But if you put the story under the category of Movie Ve= rse - I think that reviewers should go into it with the realization that yo= u *chose* to write that verse and should not be held to the events that wer= e in the book.

I just posted a birthday fic I = wrote about Legolas for a friend on FF.net. I'm interested to see if I will= get my first flame there. I noticed on the 'just in' page that a certain r= eviewer had gone down the list and flamed 8 out of 10 that I looked at. I t= hink this person looked for Legolas fictions to flame lol

 



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL A= utos for fuel-efficient used cars.


> I just finished reading The Other Boleyn Girl and it k= ind of reminded
> me of what Silmarillion fanfics are. I mean, unlik= e the Lord of the
> Rings, the Silmarillion above anything else is a= history book
> with "historical characters" about whom precious lit= tle is known. So
> in many ways when we write Silmarillin fanfics we= are doing the same
> thing as Philippa Gregory did with Mary Boleyn= and every other
> historical figure who were around during that per= iod of time in The
> Other Boleyn Girl. She developed a personality = for the people and
> gave them stories that seemed plausable enough.=
>
> HOWEVER, having read The Other Boleyn Girl I find that it= is an AU
> with many of the hallmarks of a bad fanfiction. Forgetti= ng the
> historical (canon) in accuracies, she inflated Mary Boleyn = at the
> expense of Anne. She reduced Anne to little more then a cun= ning slut,
> ignoring all her good qualities and even making her be = cruel to
> Elizabeth when history says she was kind. There was also = slash in the
> story in the from of Anne's brother George and just l= ike with
> Maedhros/Fingon history just says that he was just friend= s with the
> man who became his lover in the book. Now wikipedia tel= l me that The
> Other Boleyn Girl was critisied for some of the prec= ious reasons I
> found appalling. Don't get me wrong, the book was i= nteresting enough
> to read, just many AU fanfics were, but...
&g= t;
> Anyway, the reason I bring this up is that the book and it's wi= ki
> entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Boleyn_Girl) made= me
> think how much of a parallel there is between fanfiction
&= gt; and "original works" for lack of a better work. I think this is
>= ; something we tend to forget. More accuratly i think it has something
= > to do with the question of whether we have a "that irrespective of > the sources used, Gregory has an artistic license as an author of > fiction to construct whatever story she feels is appropriate" as the =
> defenders of Philippa Gregory have stated. I mean, obviously taste= s
> differ. I for one will never recommend the book simply because i= t is
> so historically inaccurate but it is certainly a popular book= . Which
> also brings me to the other parallel, during our discussio= n we have
> mentioned many fics that are well plotted and are not po= pular and
> many fics that are popular but not that good. I think th= at respect we
> also have tendency to forget that readers are hard t= o predict. You
> never know what they will like and what they will h= ate. I.e. a
> canonically accurate fanfiction with all canon cast th= at well plotted
> and charactarised is not the way to fandom success= .
>
> -Tinni who felt like rambling.
>
>
>= I have to throughly agree with your points about The Other Boleyn Girl, Ti= nni. The historical faults, the incorrect character portrayals, really anno= yed me. I'm waiting, though hardly with bated breath, to see the film versi= on. I doubt it will be any better...
 
Jillian


<= hr />at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 = --_50a3645d-613e-4f04-8917-7c6925b17769_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2067 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79436 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2008 12:37:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2008 12:37:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.176) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2008 12:37:41 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jun 2008 12:37:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jun 2008 12:37:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jun 2008 12:37:41 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:37:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: critism, OFCs, slash and other boleyn girl X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=alQ_9HwLdFimS5neDMCBMMOvpFxCZbM7vAiw7bUIrO4P4gurqgFhIl6U5Q X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked > I have to throughly agree with your points about The Other Boleyn >Girl,= Tinni. The historical faults, the incorrect character >portrayals, really= annoyed me. I'm waiting, though hardly with bated >breath, to see the fil= m version. I doubt it will be any better... > > Jillian I read up on th= e plotline on wikipedia and by the sounds of it the only reason to go watc= h that movie is to swoon over Eric Bana :) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2068 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44773 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2008 13:00:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2008 13:00:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2008 13:00:43 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 18180 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Jun 2008 13:00:43 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:00:42 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:00:42 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1991185773-1214312442=:17537" Message-ID: <343187.17537.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: critism, OFCs, slash and other boleyn girl X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=RisQRnAxfLTc7S89LUQVz_6gWyAgO1Ki3Oh-k0FRAV1JviTpTQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1991185773-1214312442=:17537 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I thought the movie was extemely well done despite the historical inaccurac= ies. I went into it with the thought that it wasn't going to be true to fac= ts and just enjoyed it as a work of fiction. I adore Natalie Portman and Er= ic Bana so I figured it couldnt be that bad. Scarlet Johansson was good too= . I liked it a lot more than I had expected to so I would recommend it high= ly but go into it with the realization that it is a movie based on a novel = that was a work of fiction surrounding a few historical facts and people. = =A0 ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won'= t come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0= --- On Tue, 6/24/08, Tinni wrote: From: Tin= ni Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: cri= tism, OFCs, slash and other boleyn girl To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoog= roups.com Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 8:37 AM > I have to throughly= agree with your points about The Other Boleyn >Girl, Tinni. The historica= l faults, the incorrect character >portrayals, really annoyed me. I'm wait= ing, though hardly with bated >breath, to see the film version. I doubt it= will be any better... > > Jillian I read up on the plotline on wikipedi= a and by the sounds of it the only reason to go watch that movie is to swo= on over Eric Bana :) --0-1991185773-1214312442=:17537 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I thought the movie was extemely well done despite the historical inaccuracies. I went into it with the thought that it wasn't going to be true to facts and just enjoyed it as a work of fiction. I adore Natalie Portman and Eric Bana so I figured it couldnt be that bad. Scarlet Johansson was good too. I liked it a lot more than I had expected to so I would recommend it highly but go into it with the realization that it is a movie based on a novel that was a work of fiction surrounding a few historical facts and people.



 

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 6/24/08, Tinni wrote:
From: Tinni
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: critism, OFCs, slash and other boleyn girl
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 8:37 AM

> I have to throughly agree with your points about The Other Boleyn
>Girl, Tinni. The historical faults, the incorrect character
>portrayals, really annoyed me. I'm waiting, though hardly with bated
>breath, to see the film version. I doubt it will be any better...
>
> Jillian

I read up on the plotline on wikipedia and by the sounds of it the only
reason to go watch that movie is to swoon over Eric Bana :)


--0-1991185773-1214312442=:17537-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2069 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37717 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2008 16:54:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2008 16:54:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2008 16:54:59 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d57.127b71ef (30738) for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:54:40 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1214326480" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: critism, OFCs, slash and other boleyn girl X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=oBVvZl89aNEIwzfsCT4pehfqMHQfoZtN7ufBZkS2cHvxrPEGVWSI X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1214326480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/24/2008 8:01:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: I thought the movie was extemely well done despite the historical inaccuracies. I went into it with the thought that it wasn't going to be true to facts and just enjoyed it as a work of fiction. I adore Natalie Portman and Eric Bana so I figured it couldnt be that bad. Scarlet Johansson was good too. I liked it a lot more than I had expected to so I would recommend it highly but go into it with the realization that it is a movie based on a novel that was a work of fiction surrounding a few historical facts and people. I have not seen the movie, but I am intrigued for the reasons Alassante listed above. I am also old and jaded enough to admit that I enjoy imaginative re-writes of history for their own sake and no longer even consider them a guilty pleasure--just fun. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1214326480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 6/24/2008 8:01:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes:=

I thought the movie was extemely = well done despite the historical inaccuracies. I went into it with the t= hought that it wasn't going to be true to facts and just enjoyed it as a= work of fiction. I adore Natalie Portman and Eric Bana so I figured it = couldnt be that bad. Scarlet Johansson was good too. I liked it a lot mo= re than I had expected to so I would recommend it highly but go into it = with the realization that it is a movie based on a novel that was a work= of fiction surrounding a few historical facts and people.

I have not seen the movie, but I am intrigued for the reasons= Alassante listed above. I am also old and jaded enough to admit that I en= joy imaginative re-writes of history for their own sake and no longer even= consider them a guilty pleasure--just fun.


 



Gas prices getting you down? Search= AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1214326480-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2070 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82994 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2008 20:59:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2008 20:59:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.96) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2008 20:59:06 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 25448 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Jun 2008 20:59:06 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:59:05 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:59:05 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1508712931-1214341145=:25225" Message-ID: <49739.25225.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=eMKP6RH3w-yu9PWAjSB3vM3EDvwmp-n8-46h_TCnPIag9fb32g X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1508712931-1214341145=:25225 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been trying to read some friend's stories for MEFA reviews and have be= en copying them and pasting them into a word doc before printing them out (= its less paper than printing from the web) and I noticed, not for the first= time, that you cannot easily highlight text on SWG unless you want to high= light the side menu and everything. Is this intentional and can it be chang= ed? =A0 =A0 ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....= still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ = =A0 =A0 =A0 --0-1508712931-1214341145=:25225 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I've been trying to read some friend's stories for MEFA reviews and have been copying them and pasting them into a word doc before printing them out (its less paper than printing from the web) and I noticed, not for the first time, that you cannot easily highlight text on SWG unless you want to highlight the side menu and everything. Is this intentional and can it be changed?

 



 

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1508712931-1214341145=:25225-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2071 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27368 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2008 21:11:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2008 21:11:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2008 21:11:36 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jun 2008 21:11:36 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jun 2008 21:11:36 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:11:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <49739.25225.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Yu-tJE6IKng0P2sODpuw_oRI31B1n4EaQ7Pk9tD19QD784PY7FnlB9E X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > I've been trying to read some friend's stories for MEFA review= s and > have been copying them and pasting them into a word doc before > = printing them out (its less paper than printing from the web) and I > noti= ced, not for the first time, that you cannot easily highlight > text on S= WG unless you want to highlight the side menu and > everything. Is this i= ntentional and can it be changed? We have a print feature option at the a= rchive. When you go to the story, you will see a miniture image of a printe= r (when you see the general story information at the level of the nr of rev= iews, within a chapter it can be located in the story option block). Click = on that and you will see that all side menus/lay out looks are gone. From t= here you can easily print or do a simple copy and paste action into word. I= 've done this a lot and it works brilliantly for me. It is a bit on our wi= shlist to investigate if we can either give readers the option to get acces= s to stories as a text file (or plain text output) or pdf, simply because t= hese formats are also supported by e-book readers or make it easier for rea= ders to story stories locally. If you do not want to work from the print v= ersion page, we have a faq entry on this how you can easily select text fro= m the swg page (because some older browsers like IE 6.0 do have known issue= s with text selection), because we encountered problems with this a few mon= ths ago when members wanted to paste text from a story in a review. But I t= hink this will be helpful for your case too! http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org/about/faq/faq29.php If you still have weird problems occuring w= hen you want to select text, can you please let us know? We're here to help= :) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2072 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34354 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2008 21:39:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2008 21:39:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.156) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2008 21:39:10 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 34so696087yxf.74 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:39:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.147.15 with SMTP id u15mr4276941wfd.181.1214343549716; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:39:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.44.19 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:39:09 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <49739.25225.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21972_18492956.1214343549713" References: <49739.25225.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=n7NGc9ZmOvOY8XNNDaIcnv2qVU26p1xWmiOOIL9IY2FwtsFK0Ol0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_21972_18492956.1214343549713-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2073 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51962 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2008 21:45:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2008 21:45:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2008 21:45:33 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bfe.3e3bcb97 (30738) for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:45:21 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1214343921" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=H1eg1vKIYWatMoCTX9KkCrgwHeg_uMK9e1TTFxzDgAOSivV6ww-8 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1214343921 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/24/2008 4:39:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: I've been trying to read some friend's stories for MEFA reviews and have been copying them and pasting them into a word doc before printing them out (its less paper than printing from the web) and I noticed, not for the first time, that you cannot easily highlight text on SWG unless you want to highlight the side menu and everything. Is this intentional and can it be changed? It's an ongoing problem that I have as well. I work around it in the most crude way imaginable. I simply select all and paste as unformatted text into a Word document and delete the stuff at the top and the bottom (I lose the italics formatting on any stories which have that--Ha! I've even changed my own writing style to adapt! I hardly ever use italics anymore, except when it is a absolute grammatical requirement). I am sure Rhapsody's suggestions are better and far more elegant, but my eyes glazed over just reading them. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1214343921 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 6/24/2008 4:39:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:
Gas prices getting y= ou down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1214343921-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2074 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76566 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2008 22:31:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2008 22:31:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2008 22:31:13 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 70695 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Jun 2008 22:31:12 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:31:12 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:31:12 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-61313784-1214346672=:70301" Message-ID: <756297.70301.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=w50y1hKJCVGTGzwZQ7NCHG2wj5Ss8BLs8cZIljj7D17DC1QBjg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-61313784-1214346672=:70301 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I dunno which version because its my work PC. I use Firefox at home. I <3= the fox lol ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....st= ill won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ = =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Tue, 6/24/08, Dawn Felagund = wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [Silmarill= ionWritersGuild] Question about the archive To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@ya= hoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 5:39 PM = On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Alassante7 wro= te: > I've been trying to read some friend's stories for MEFA reviews and h= ave been copying them and pasting them into a word doc before printing them= out (its less paper than printing from the web) and I noticed, not for the= first time, that you cannot easily highlight text on SWG unless you want t= o highlight the side menu and everything. Is this intentional and can it be= changed? Let me guess ... IE 6.0? ;) IE 6.0 has a bug that does not allo= w text to be selected on pages using absolute positioning in the CSS styles= heet. In layperson's terms, one of the most common positioning rules used i= n layouts breaks slightly in IE 6.0. *hearts Microsoft* ;) It should wor= k fine in IE 7.0 and all versions of Firefox. Unfortunately, it's not some= thing that we can fix. It's their broken browser. But, as Rhapsody suggeste= d, we did figure out a few workarounds that can hopefully help! :) All th= e best, Dawn, not bitter towards IE or anything like that ;) -- ~oOo~ Da= wn Felagund www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org = --0-61313784-1214346672=:70301 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I dunno which version because its my work PC. I use Firefox at home.

I <3 the fox lol

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 6/24/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about the archive
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 5:39 PM

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Alassante7 <alassante7@yahoo. com> wrote:
> I've been trying to read some friend's stories for MEFA reviews and have been copying them and pasting them into a word doc before printing them out (its less paper than printing from the web) and I noticed, not for the first time, that you cannot easily highlight text on SWG unless you want to highlight the side menu and everything. Is this intentional and can it be changed?

Let me guess ... IE 6.0? ;)

IE 6.0 has a bug that does not allow text to be selected on pages using absolute positioning in the CSS stylesheet. In layperson's terms, one of the most common positioning rules used in layouts breaks slightly in IE 6.0.

*hearts Microsoft* ;)

It should work fine in IE 7.0 and all versions of Firefox.

Unfortunately, it's not something that we can fix. It's their broken browser. But, as Rhapsody suggested, we did figure out a few workarounds that can hopefully help! :)

All the best,

Dawn, not bitter towards IE or anything like that ;)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org


--0-61313784-1214346672=:70301-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2075 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99912 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2008 22:32:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2008 22:32:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2008 22:32:04 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 1533 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Jun 2008 22:32:04 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:32:04 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:32:04 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1468668924-1214346724=:1141" Message-ID: <230484.1141.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=e4VkPzj9bwCGK1xoPkVRXjeOYidzujTfeglnjZKKWJVqFOqcKQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1468668924-1214346724=:1141 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cool - will try when I get back to work ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye = A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza= .avonrepresentative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Tue, 6/24/08, rhapsody_the_= bard wrote: From: rhapsody_the_bard Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about the archive T= o: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 5= :11 PM --- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogro= up s.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > I've been trying to re= ad some friend's stories for MEFA reviews and > have been copying them an= d pasting them into a word doc before > printing them out (its less paper= than printing from the web) and I > noticed, not for the first time, tha= t you cannot easily highlight > text on SWG unless you want to highlight= the side menu and > everything. Is this intentional and can it be chang= ed? We have a print feature option at the archive. When you go to the = story, you will see a miniture image of a printer (when you see the genera= l story information at the level of the nr of reviews, within a chapter it= can be located in the story option block). Click on that and you will see= that all side menus/lay out looks are gone. From there you can easily pri= nt or do a simple copy and paste action into word. I've done this a lot an= d it works brilliantly for me. It is a bit on our wishlist to investigat= e if we can either give readers the option to get access to stories as a t= ext file (or plain text output) or pdf, simply because these formats are a= lso supported by e-book readers or make it easier for readers to story sto= ries locally. If you do not want to work from the print version page, we= have a faq entry on this how you can easily select text from the swg page= (because some older browsers like IE 6.0 do have known issues with text = selection), because we encountered problems with this a few months ago whe= n members wanted to paste text from a story in a review. But I think this = will be helpful for your case too! http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild = .org/about/ faq/faq29. php If you still have weird problems occuring whe= n you want to select text, can you please let us know? We're here to help = :) Rhapsody --0-1468668924-1214346724=:1141 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
cool - will try when I get back to work

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 6/24/08, rhapsody_the_bard wrote:
From: rhapsody_the_bard
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about the archive
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 5:11 PM

--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, Alassante7
wrote:
>
> I've been trying to read some friend's stories for MEFA reviews and
> have been copying them and pasting them into a word doc before
> printing them out (its less paper than printing from the web) and I
> noticed, not for the first time, that you cannot easily highlight
> text on SWG unless you want to highlight the side menu and
> everything. Is this intentional and can it be changed?

We have a print feature option at the archive. When you go to the
story, you will see a miniture image of a printer (when you see the
general story information at the level of the nr of reviews, within a
chapter it can be located in the story option block). Click on that
and you will see that all side menus/lay out looks are gone. From
there you can easily print or do a simple copy and paste action into
word. I've done this a lot and it works brilliantly for me.

It is a bit on our wishlist to investigate if we can either give
readers the option to get access to stories as a text file (or plain
text output) or pdf, simply because these formats are also supported
by e-book readers or make it easier for readers to story stories locally.

If you do not want to work from the print version page, we have a faq
entry on this how you can easily select text from the swg page
(because some older browsers like IE 6.0 do have known issues with
text selection), because we encountered problems with this a few
months ago when members wanted to paste text from a story in a review.
But I think this will be helpful for your case too!

http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/about/ faq/faq29. php

If you still have weird problems occuring when you want to select
text, can you please let us know? We're here to help :)

Rhapsody


--0-1468668924-1214346724=:1141-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2076 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51149 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 01:36:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 01:36:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.175) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 01:36:15 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 27so2758006wfd.17 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:36:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.143.155.7 with SMTP id h7mr6471922wfo.16.1214357775106; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:36:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.44.19 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:36:15 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <756297.70301.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_22685_14905385.1214357775129" References: <756297.70301.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=yYjje3ZHRGcVcc6WTlf0hFyDVdSYkdke6YKudT_aNIgTci4u0VH7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_22685_14905385.1214357775129-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2077 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51865 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 01:52:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 01:52:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 01:52:16 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d49.308f6785 (30738) for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:52:11 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1214358731" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=iaFDdGJuApDKNXM6eGnB6fsEzGSps0jIrtzaK_rGnvm_cJK72NkW X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1214358731 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oshun, the quick and dirty on how to select text in IE 6.0: Click where you want to start copying. Hold down CTRL + SHIFT. Use the arrow keys to highlight one word at a time, and copy and paste as usual. I'll try that. It did improve my writing though. I stopped cut out all those fanfic-specific usages of italics. (I used to get reviews early-on on ff net saying: "I couldn't tell he was thinking that, why don't you put thoughts in italics!") Just had a discussion last weekend about a book Pandemonium was written that had whole chapters in italic--god forbid. That's heavy going. Another thing I would like to drop is intserting those little breaks things ( * * * *) when I changes scenes or POV. Another fanfic stnadard that was forced down my throat. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1214358731 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Oshun, the quick and dirty on how to select= text in IE 6.0: Click where you want to start copying. Hold down CTRL += SHIFT. Use the arrow keys to highlight one word at a time, and copy and= paste as usual.
I'll try th= at. It did improve my writing though. I stopped cut out all thos= e fanfic-specific usages of italics. (I used to get reviews early-on on ff= net saying: "I couldn't tell he was thinking that, why don't you put thou= ghts in italics!") Just had a discussion last weekend about a book Pandemo= nium was written that had whole chapters in italic--god forbid. That's hea= vy going. Another thing I would like to drop is intserting those little br= eaks things ( * * * *) when I changes scenes or POV. Another fanfic stnada= rd that was forced down my throat.



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-effi= cient used cars.
-------------------------------1214358731-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2078 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19010 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 01:57:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 01:57:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 01:57:32 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cff.34ac7415 (30738) for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:57:26 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1214359046" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=FRCwoEt1F0wZ7JoqZb0pWWuLe3CDjwE2xxmie1DiCzr1rlHUB5ng X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1214359046 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Redo!!! So many typos it was virtually illegible Oshun, the quick and dirty on how to select text in IE 6.0: Click where you want to start copying. Hold down CTRL + SHIFT. Use the arrow keys to highlight one word at a time, and copy and paste as usual. I'll try that. It did improve my writing though. I cut out all those fanfic-specific usages of italics. (I used to get reviews early-on on ff net saying: "I couldn't tell he was thinking that, why don't you put thoughts in italics!") Just had a discussion last weekend about a book Pandemonium was reading that had whole chapters in italic--god forbid. That's heavy going. Another thing I would like to drop is intserting those little breaks things ( * * * *) when I changes scenes or POV. Another fanfic standard that was forced down my throat. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1214359046 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Redo!!! So = many typos it was virtually illegible
Oshun, the quick and dirty on how to select text in IE 6.0: Click whe= re you want to start copying. Hold down CTRL + SHIFT. Use the arrow keys = to highlight one word at a time, and copy and paste as usual.
I'll try that. It did improve m= y writing though. I cut out all those fanfic-specific usages of ita= lics. (I used to get reviews early-on on ff net saying: "I couldn't tell= he was thinking that, why don't you put thoughts in italics!") Just had= a discussion last weekend about a book Pandemonium was reading that had= whole chapters in italic--god forbid. That's heavy going. Another thing= I would like to drop is intserting those little breaks things ( * * * *= ) when I changes scenes or POV. Another fanfic standard that was fo= rced down my throat.
 = ;



Gas prices getting you= down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1214359046-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2079 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24116 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 02:00:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 02:00:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.138) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 02:00:24 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2008 02:00:24 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2008 02:00:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2008 02:00:24 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:00:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=UeHaZ-f7Gx_ORyh2mu-AkUFpYdptudBoJK80dotJKrgh-HEbuX5lMiU0 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > > > Oshun, the quick and dirty on how to select text in IE 6.0: Cl= ick where you > want to start copying. Hold down CTRL + SHIFT. Use the ar= row keys to > highlight one word at a time, and copy and paste as usual. = > > > > I'll try that. It did improve my writing though. I stopped cut = out all those > fanfic-specific usages of italics. (I used to get reviews = early-on on ff net > saying: "I couldn't tell he was thinking that, why d= on't you put thoughts in > italics!") Just had a discussion last weekend = about a book Pandemonium was > written that had whole chapters in italic-= -god forbid. Wait! Wait! That is a book that I am *reading,* not writin= g. Bauglir forbid that I would write entire chapters in italics! :^D If I= did, I would hope someone would put me out of my misery. In spite of the = plethora of italics, the book is pretty good: The Darwin Conspiracy by John= Darnton. I suppose I could go yammer about this in the Other Boleyn Girl = thread, but I highly doubt that a movie will ever be made about this novel.= Darton does take history and weaves it into an engaging page-turner. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2080 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94099 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 02:04:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 02:04:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 02:04:41 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cc1.3860a398 (30738) for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:04:23 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1214359463" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=LBubEm-Mir-lPWPqSpJ7qh-dFmhBTONA2wpqX-Ha9y7O-KVgaLDx X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1214359463 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So sorry! I did a re-do on that typo-ridden posting, but not before you read it apparently. Wouldn't you just know I would slander you like that while you were alert and awake. It was, however, unintentional, unlike some of comments that insult people! Sorry! Wait! Wait! That is a book that I am *reading,* not writing. Bauglir forbid that I would write entire chapters in italics! :^D If I did, I would hope someone would put me out of my misery. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1214359463 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
So sorry! I= did a re-do on that typo-ridden posting, but not before you read it appar= ently. Wouldn't you just know I would slander you like that while you were= alert and awake. It was, however, unintentional, unlike some of comments = that insult people! Sorry!
Wait! Wait! = That is a book that I am *reading,* not writing.
Bauglir forbid that = I would write entire chapters in italics! :^D If
I did, I would hope = someone would put me out of my misery.
 



Gas pric= es getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1214359463-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2081 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19936 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 02:10:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 02:10:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.242) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 02:10:14 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so8315463rvf.34 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:10:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.33.1 with SMTP id l1mr4573048waj.115.1214359814532; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:10:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:10:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:10:14 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_33996_33049837.1214359814521" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=9dbCDAbXgWXb3f5q-cJ3lhSIsUgwg4i4MhyIapX3DYPK1wJrhbJe X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_33996_33049837.1214359814521-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2082 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75697 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 02:15:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 02:15:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 02:15:56 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c0e.3454c79c (30738) for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:15:53 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1214360153" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=kqw-3YHMqxTiNInVQDknqhU-HuCJEzRCeamyUgXZfbs_oNBT7C3p X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1214360153 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit little doohickies that scream, "I'm making a space break!!1!!" I overuse space breaks, I know that. Yeah those! If you overuse them, they haven't bothered me. I mind them less in the case of scene breaks than POV shifts. But then you don't do as many POV shifts as I do either. But even in scene changes, if I say, "Later, after they had left the barn and returned into the house..." That really ought to be good enough IMHO. (I thiink people skim fanfics sometimes--maybe I should think more about making the story more arresting so people won't skim! That's a thought.) **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1214360153 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
little doohickies that scream, "I'm making = a space break!!1!!" I overuse space breaks, I know that.
Yeah those! If you overuse them, they haven't b= othered me. I mind them less in the case of scene breaks than POV shifts. = But then you don't do as many POV shifts as I do either. But even in scene= changes, if I say, "Later, after they had left the barn and returned into= the house..." That really ought to be good enough IMHO. (I thiink people = skim fanfics sometimes--maybe I should think more about making the story m= ore arresting so people won't skim! That's a thought.)


Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Aut= os for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1214360153-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2083 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87713 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 02:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 02:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n26a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.240) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 02:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n26.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2008 02:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2008 02:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2008 02:17:26 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:17:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=5a6HPI9rH3XhKPZ0X2I9AGaemMyVmdmnQnNjKs8u2ciiNLINyYWhTAbQ X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > > So sorry! I did a re-do on that typo-ridden posting, but not before y= ou read > it apparently. Wouldn't you just know I would slander you like = that while > you were alert and awake. It was, however, unintentional, un= like some of > comments that insult people! Sorry! > I'm amused, barely= alert and sort of awake so I'm not slandered. ;^) I should probably go to = bed and dream about "United States v. 95 Barrels of Vinegar" -- a landmark = case! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2084 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92753 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 02:21:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 02:21:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 02:21:26 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cef.37bd6593 (30738) for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:21:23 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1214360483" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=FbWfOiwuDGt5fzBgwmqDN828YqYyppMgLBL2yhiq9XR7GikPE7SQ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1214360483 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/24/2008 9:17:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: I'm amused, barely alert and sort of awake so I'm not slandered. ;^) I should probably go to bed and dream about "United States v. 95 Barrels of Vinegar" -- a landmark case! OMG. You poor thing. I used to actually dream about caselaw, when I used to edit and proofread legal briefs. Thankfully, that rarely happens anymore. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1214360483 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 6/24/2008 9:17:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes= :
I'm amused, barely alert and sort of= awake so I'm not slandered. ;^) I
should probably go to bed and drea= m about "United States v. 95 Barrels
of Vinegar" -- a landmark case!<= /FONT>
OMG. You poor thing. I used to actually dream abou= t caselaw, when I used to edit and proofread legal briefs. Thankfully, tha= t rarely happens anymore.

&n= bsp;
 



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-ef= ficient used cars.
-------------------------------1214360483-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2085 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31666 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 13:54:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 13:54:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.176) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 13:54:09 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id y26so376615ele.18 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:54:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.14.20 with SMTP id 20mr6810212wfn.149.1214402048755; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:54:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.44.19 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:54:08 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_24642_26848084.1214402048817" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=05emYrLle_EC2rvIJtnLWXL-_CQMdd1uTW7hPNQk5IVfNOPSBXec X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_24642_26848084.1214402048817-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2086 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22758 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 15:35:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 15:35:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 15:35:26 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 46348 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Jun 2008 15:35:22 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:35:22 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:35:22 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-12051757-1214408122=:45544" Message-ID: <823527.45544.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Happy Birthday to Binka!!! Birthday Fic - Reflections in the Deep X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=TYFAQGVShYsSANlu2yCWhp9was6ft6n0-cX_LRjhYoB_AbSEKQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-12051757-1214408122=:45544 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A/N Thanks to Gwynnyd for her beta assistance. Tolkien owns all accept my d= emented mind. Happy birthday Binka!!! I hope you like it Binka-dinka-doo. = =A0 ~~**~~ Feanor, mighty amongst the Firstborn, crafted me filled with= the light of Telperion and Laurelin; hallowed by Varda. Melkor, lusting f= or my radiance, stole me in the night. His prize treasure, I graced his iro= n crown. Many covet me, thirsting for my light to quench their need. Elves= died for me. I=92m unique =96 irreplaceable - greatest of the three most p= erfect gems ever wrought by mind and hand. Wars were fought for me! Now, c= ould someone please explain to me why I am lying here at the bottom of the = damn ocean, covered in barnacles, and surrounded by fish poop? ~~**~~ = Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when yo= u call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --0-12051757-1214408122=:45544 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A/N Thanks to Gw= ynnyd for her beta assistance. Tolkien owns all accept my demented mind.
= Happy= birthday Binka!!! I hope you like it Binka-dinka-doo.

 =

~~**~~

Feanor, mighty amongst the Firstborn, crafted me fil= led with the light of Telperion and Laurelin; hallowed by Varda.

Mel= kor, lusting for my radiance, stole me in the night. His prize treasure, I = graced his iron crown.

Many covet me, thirsting for my light to quen= ch their need. Elves died for me. I=92m unique =96 irreplaceable - greatest= of the three most perfect gems ever wrought by mind and hand. Wars were fo= ught for me!

Now, could someone please explain to me why I am lying = here at the bottom of the damn ocean, covered in barnacles, and surrounded = by fish poop?

~~**~~
<= FONT size=3D2>Ali Kat/Alassant= e/Kathye
= A Kat with many names....still won't come when you c= all her
 
 =
 

--0-12051757-1214408122=:45544-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2087 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43650 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 17:06:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 17:06:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.186) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 17:06:41 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i50so816589rne.11 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:06:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.245.6 with SMTP id s6mr7057000wfh.141.1214413600366; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:06:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.44.19 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:06:40 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <823527.45544.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_328_12371558.1214413600345" References: <823527.45544.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy Birthday to Binka!!! Birthday Fic - Reflections in the Deep X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=c47E5IflmLJHoOxQr4AAIK3vXMeY7Z6fHoGxSrWqSyYts6s6fKL9 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_328_12371558.1214413600345-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2088 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63616 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 17:52:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 17:52:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 17:52:34 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 133DA7480A0 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:52:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:52:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:52:29 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1022140299.20080625195229@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <823527.45544.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <823527.45544.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy Birthday to Binka!!! Birthday Fic - Reflections in the Deep X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=Dm9LFcKrR_-GxgyEjFo48v3fvdqSymVKe7piXIAq3nMLnXAJy0I X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Happy Birthday, Binka! :) Ai Alassante, A> Feanor, mighty amongst the Firstborn, crafted me filled with A> the light of Telperion and Laurelin; hallowed by Varda. A> Melkor, lusting for my radiance, stole me in the night. His A> prize treasure, I graced his iron crown. A> Many covet me, thirsting for my light to quench their need. A> Elves died for me. I�m unique � irreplaceable - greatest of the A> three most perfect gems ever wrought by mind and hand. Wars were A> fought for me! A> Now, could someone please explain to me why I am lying here at A> the bottom of the damn ocean, covered in barnacles, and surrounded A> by fish poop? A> ~~**~~ Good question Alassante :D Well done! Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2089 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54235 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 21:01:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 21:01:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 21:01:07 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bf5.3719d271 (65100) for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:01:02 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1214427662" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy Birthday to Binka!!! Birthday Fic - Refl... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=fV9RmZ9-Qdu0pMEeAwZTXPfCfPDWTqvBri_zY2pMVsKRB_Zostsq X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1214427662 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 6/25/2008 12:52:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, siriell= e@tlen.pl writes: A> Feanor, mighty amongst the Firstborn, crafted me fil= led with A> the light of Telperion and Laurelin; hallowed by Varda. A> Me= lkor, lusting for my radiance, stole me in the night. His A> prize treasur= e, I graced his iron crown. A> Many covet me, thirsting for my light to = quench their need. A> Elves died for me. I=E2=80=99m unique =E2=80=93 irrep= laceable - greatest of the A> three most perfect gems ever wrought by mind= and hand. Wars were A> fought for me! A> Now, could someone please expl= ain to me why I am lying here at A> the bottom of the damn ocean, covered = in barnacles, and surrounded A> by fish poop? A> ~~**~~ I am devasta= ted that nominations for the MEFA are closed! That is so awesome! Happy = Birthday, Binka! **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL A= utos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=3D= aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1214427662 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =
In a message da= ted 6/25/2008 12:52:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes:<= /DIV>
A> Feanor, mighty amongst the Firstbor= n, crafted me filled with
A> the light of Telperion and Laurelin; = hallowed by Varda.

A> Melkor, lusting for my radiance, stole m= e in the night. His
A> prize treasure, I graced his iron crown.
A> Many covet me, thirsting for my light to quench their need.A> Elves died for me. I=E2=80=99m unique =E2=80=93 irreplaceable - = greatest of the
A> three most perfect gems ever wrought by mind and = hand. Wars were
A> fought for me!

A> Now, could someone p= lease explain to me why I am lying here at
A> the bottom of the da= mn ocean, covered in barnacles, and surrounded
A> by fish poop?

A> ~~**~~
I = am devastated that nominations for the MEFA are closed! That is so awesome= !
 
Happy Birthday, Binka!


<= BR>
<= HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos= for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1214427662-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2090 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47327 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2008 22:01:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2008 22:01:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 22:01:20 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 17362 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Jun 2008 22:01:18 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:01:18 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:01:18 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-162938633-1214431278=:16993" Message-ID: <823143.16993.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy Birthday to Binka!!! Birthday Fic - Refl... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=1m_BzonkWoElPU1BMazHk5_DHAXRA4DCgLma4gGjJ15xdnMaEA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-162938633-1214431278=:16993 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hehe thanks =3D) ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names..= ..still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com= / =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Wed, 6/25/08, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: R= e: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy Birthday to Binka!!! Birthday Fic - Ref= l... To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 25,= 2008, 5:01 PM In a message dated 6/25/2008 = 12:52:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen. pl writes: A> Feanor,= mighty amongst the Firstborn, crafted me filled with A> the light of Te= lperion and Laurelin; hallowed by Varda. A> Melkor, lusting for my radi= ance, stole me in the night. His A> prize treasure, I graced his iron cr= own. A> Many covet me, thirsting for my light to quench their need. A> = Elves died for me. I=92m unique =96 irreplaceable - greatest of the A> t= hree most perfect gems ever wrought by mind and hand. Wars were A> fough= t for me! A> Now, could someone please explain to me why I am lying her= e at A> the bottom of the damn ocean, covered in barnacles, and surround= ed A> by fish poop? A> ~~**~~ I am devastated that nominations for = the MEFA are closed! That is so awesome! =A0 Happy Birthday, Binka! Gas = prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. = --0-162938633-1214431278=:16993 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hehe thanks =3D)

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with= many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On = Wed, 6/25/08, heartofoshun@aol.com = wrote:
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy Birthday t= o Binka!!! Birthday Fic - Refl...
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogrou= ps.com
Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 5:01 PM

In a mess= age dated 6/25/2008 12:52:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen. pl w= rites:
A> Feanor, mighty amongst the Firstborn, crafted me filled wit= h
A> the light of Telperion and Laurelin; hallowed by Varda.
A> Melkor, lusting for my radiance, stole me in the night. His
A= > prize treasure, I graced his iron crown.

A> Many covet me= , thirsting for my light to quench their need.
A> Elves died for m= e. I=92m unique =96 irreplaceable - greatest of the
A> three most = perfect gems ever wrought by mind and hand. Wars were
A> fought fo= r me!

A> Now, could someone please explain to me why I am lyin= g here at
A> the bottom of the damn ocean, covered in barnacles, a= nd surrounded
A> by fish poop?


A> ~~**~~
=
I am devastated that nominations for t= he MEFA are closed! That is so awesome!
 
Happy= Birthday, Binka!



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos fo= r fuel-efficient used cars.
=

--0-162938633-1214431278=:16993-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2091 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18354 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2008 16:49:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2008 16:49:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.102) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2008 16:49:04 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 31837 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jul 2008 16:49:03 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:49:03 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:49:03 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-860819240-1215103743=:30698" Message-ID: <629767.30698.qm@web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Sequels to Reflections in the Deep X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=-tv5I1-HJQ3njXdD0obcNoRAnERmDW7fLAQ_DuoSxGGe7dibEg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-860819240-1215103743=:30698 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A few of you suggested that Reflections in the Deep had a sequel. Well I ju= st posted two more. Hope you enjoy! ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A = Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.av= onrepresentative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --0-860819240-1215103743=:30698 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
A few of you suggested that Reflections in the Deep had a sequel. Well I just posted two more. Hope you enjoy!

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-860819240-1215103743=:30698-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2092 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7824 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2008 17:59:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2008 17:59:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n12.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.139) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2008 17:59:12 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n12.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2008 17:59:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2008 17:59:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2008 17:59:12 -0000 Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:59:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <629767.30698.qm@web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="6-3511675739-5183580452=:3" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: Sequels to Reflections in the Deep X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=lhW7qnh_3wsLnI5grubFdwFDPN_3lHMFQ16E1yvcgszDBJb1dQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --6-3511675739-5183580452=:3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > A few of you suggested that Reflections in the Deep had a sequel. Well I = just posted two more. Hope you enjoy! I would just like to add that they = were fabulous... seriously, everyone should go read them right now. --6-3511675739-5183580452=:3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > A few of you suggested that Reflections in the Deep had a sequel. W= ell I just posted two more. Hope you enjoy!


I would just lik= e to add that they were fabulous... seriously, everyone should go read them= right now.
--6-3511675739-5183580452=:3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2093 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66805 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2008 18:09:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2008 18:09:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2008 18:09:31 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.ced.38f573ce (39954) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:09:25 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215194965" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Sequels to Reflections in the Deep X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=JT-MsVY457qdaR9OlP71Rv2OKoZ4nHC2MMUBXkObJxQ7IQBpX5G6 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215194965 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/4/2008 12:59:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com writes: A few of you suggested that Reflections in the Deep had a sequel. Well I just posted two more. Hope you enjoy! I thought they were hilarious (and have reviewed them at two different locations already.) They did, however, bounce one of my all time favorite novels off of the "newest" list. So, I would like to also rec Keiliss's Even Quicker Than Doubt. Wo nderful early Second Age character-driven novel, strong on politics of the time. If you cannot read slash give it a pass. If you ever considered reading slash and haven't done so, this would be a good one to try. Oshun **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215194965 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/4/2008 12:59:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com w= rites:
A few of you suggested that R= eflections in the Deep had a sequel. Well I just posted two more. Hope y= ou enjoy!
I thought they= were hilarious (and have reviewed them at two different locations al= ready.)
 
They did, however, bounce one of my a= ll time favorite novels off of the "newest" list. So, I would like to also= rec Keiliss's Even Quicker Than Doubt. Wonderful early Second Age charact= er-driven novel, strong on politics of the time. If you cannot read slash = give it a pass. If you ever considered reading slash and haven't done so, = this would be a good one to try.
 
Oshun



Gas prices getting you down? Se= arch AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1215194965-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2094 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 95386 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2008 21:14:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2008 21:14:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n36a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.130) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2008 21:14:37 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2008 21:14:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2008 21:14:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2008 21:14:37 -0000 X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83196 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2008 21:11:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2008 21:11:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.225) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2008 21:11:11 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id g37so1427976rvb.21 for ; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:11:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.66.2 with SMTP id o2mr3758790waa.83.1215205870730; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:11:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.18.11 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <511ea890807041411h5f1c4708gf4bf9817e3c2df19@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 16:11:10 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: The Wanderer :: G :: complete X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=KVhPcMPqkGeV6dOImRgoRiyxL52MrYf_XInsmA1ckQTcr-NS8zo X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 04 Jul 2008 21:14:35 -0000 Title: The Wanderer Author: Zhie - zhiester@gmail.com Beta: Nuinzilien Rati= ng: G Summary: History becomes legend, legend becomes myth, myth... goes wa= lking on the beach. An elf wanders, a woman watches. They walk, and talk, a= nd nothing really happens. (It's G-rated, remember?) Word Count: 2,175 Arch= ive: Phoenix (http://phoenix.zhie.us) Disclaimer: The elf? Not mine. The wo= man? Um, I don't know who she belongs to. The lullaby? Totally MINE, though= , not my language. *tips hat to the Professor* Notes: My Sindarin is shaky,= but I hope understandable to those who understand Sindarin (and for those = who don't, no, no translation offered... but to be fair, the woman in the s= tory doesn't get a translation, either.) Written for the challenge on lotrd= reams.com Along the coast in the early hours of the morning he would wan= der. His steps were aimless and at times apprehensively awkward. Most of t= he time he watched the ground just in front of his feet, though once in a w= hile he might steal a glance across the water, over the sea, to that land h= eard of only in legends and fairytales. She remembered her mother telling = her of 'the ancient one'; a beautiful-looking man who walked alone before d= awn and after dusk. Some said that he had lost his ship and was stranded bu= t too proud to ask for help finding his way home. Others guessed he had be= en banished by his own people and had nowhere else to go. Yet there were s= ome who claimed he had been there for years uncounted, that their grandpare= nts and countless generations before them had seen him before and that he w= as one of Them. So the tales grew, some fanciful, like the one that declar= ed he paced the shoreline to build his courage so that he could challenge t= he god of the sea who had taken his fair maiden from him. Other stories to= ld of a cruel demon who seemed innocent and wore this clever disguise, but = used it to lure unknowingly curious children to him so that he could eat th= em. There were doubts in her mind that any of these could be true, but to = be safe everyone had always cautioned everyone else to stay far from him wh= en he appeared. It was not every day, but when those days came people tend= ed to wait longer to emerge from their cottages and hurry back before dark.= Today, she awoke from a fitful sleep and when the herbal tea suggested by= the healer did not help she resorted to taking a walk in hopes that the ba= be she carried might take rest again =96 or, at the very least, refrain fro= m kicking her ribs every time she found a comfortable position. She kissed= her husband, made sure the other children were asleep in their beds, and t= ook a shawl with her as an afterthought, though part of the reason for goin= g to the shore was to allow the cooling breezes to wash over her. She did = not survey the beach as she left the quiet little house; she merely left an= d walked with her purpose in mind. It was not until her bare feet felt the= coarse grass exchanged for sand that she noticed him. Never had she been = so close, and he was yet some distance from her. Years of lore swept throu= gh her mind, but the idea of fleeing seemed silly the longer she watched hi= m. His path was taking him southward, towards her. He carried little with= him =96 only a harp strapped upon his back. It was tarnished and some of = the strings were broken. His cape was tattered on the edges and the bottom= of it whipped back and forth against his legs as he walked. There were no= shoes on his calloused feet, and his trousers had been patched more often = than not. His shirt was stained by sun and rain and tears, though the latt= er she could not recognize and only he knew. His hair was dark but light g= linted off subdued shades of red hidden in the earthy tones. He had yet to= notice her, and she considered a second time her options. If she stood wh= ere she was, she appeared to be watching him =96 which she admittedly was. = If she walked north, they would pass one another. If she walked south, he= would eventually catch up to her. Not wanting to appear rude or confrontat= ional, and trusting her gut feeling that he was not so very dangerous as so= me might thing, she chose south. The waves gently caressed the shore and r= olled pebbles onto the sand as if the sea was offering the earth these meag= er tributes. Some were accepted, and yet others were given back, only for = the sea to bestow them once more. She watched the water hypnotically and d= id not remember she was not alone until she heard someone speak. "They are= crowding his kingdom," said a soft voice just to her left. She looked up a= nd turned her head, and though others might have run with fear, she only co= ntinued to walk dumbly beside the stranger. "When people skip stones, it an= noys him," the wanderer further explained. "They disrupt his waters the wa= y he wants them to be. So Ulmo has his great serpents of the sea take them= and gnash them into useless bits in their jagged jaws, and when they spit = them out he sends them back ashore in warning." "Really?" she finally said= , for she could not remain silent, and yet did not know what to say. "That= is what my father told me," said the stranger. He picked up a flat stone = and crouched down. She stopped to watch as he pitched it sideways once the= latest wave was swallowed into the shore. The stone skipped twelve times = and then disappeared beneath the surface. "Another for his servants to gobb= le up." "And what of you?" she asked as he stood up again and politely off= ered her his arm. She placed her hand around the bend of his elbow and the= y began to walk again. "What of me?" he asked as if he wished an answer as= well. "What is your name, sir, and whose servant might you be?" He was s= ilent for a little while, but eventually said, "I am the last servant of my= father, bound by an oath I have yet to understand. As for my name, call m= e only Rhachtor, for that is all that I am and shall remain." "Your name i= s of a language strange to me. Are you from the north or from the south?" = "I am from the west," he said, and his gaze flitted seaward. She laughed,= a regretful move for the baby kicked her severely for this and she rubbed = her swollen belly to calm him. "There are none who come from the west, exc= ept perhaps merfolk and el=97" Her smile dropped as suddenly as his appear= ed, and now she looked to examine him more closely. His face was young, bu= t his eyes were old, and eyes never deceive one's age. His hair, pulled ba= ck, covered his ears, though she looked about in hopes some of it might hav= e revealed his identity. "Go ahead and look if you wish, but tell no one e= lse what you discover," he said softly. Curiosity got the better of her, a= nd she tentatively reached up and moved his hair up and away from his ears.= They curved at the bottom as any man's would, but they did not round off = as they should have had he been a man. "I thought your people had all sail= ed home, to your fabled island safe from the worries of Men." "Not all of = us," he answered with regret and longing. "But you wanted to go," she piec= ed together. "You still wish to be there." "Yes." "Are you able to?" He= sighed and stopped, stopping them both, and turned to face the sea and the= unreachable horizon so very far away. For several minutes they stood; an = eternity for her, a moment for him. "Are you a harp player?" she asked in = hopes of changing the subject. "I once was." "And now? Is it because it = is broken?" He frowned, melancholy. "And now, I am the broken string =96 = the servant with no master, the prince with no purpose, the king without a = crown. I am the only one left, and yet I am no one. I am the voice of mis= ery and ruined beauty, seeing everything and yet seeing nothing." "Is it b= ecause your instrument is broken?" she asked, somewhat confused by his word= s. "It is because I am broken," he said, and he carefully removed one of h= is gloves. As the fabric slid down, fingers she imagined to be delicate an= d gifted were shown to be crooked and gnarled. The sight of his palm was g= rotesque, and she looked away quickly as he covered his hand again. "Who d= id such a horrible thing to you?" she whispered once his injury was again h= idden. "I did it to myself," answered the stranger. He offered his arm to= her again and they continued to walk. She slowed the pace, for her child = seemed insistent upon rearranging his living quarters. "You will deliver s= oon?" he asked as if he knew what thoughts were forefront in her mind. "Ye= s, another few weeks at most." "This is not your first," he said as a matt= er of fact. "No." He nodded. "If it was your first child, you would not = stroll on the beach away from your house by yourself so far along. Now, it= is not such a new experience, and you know yourself well enough to allow y= ourself this respite." "Respite?" She laughed. "No, not while he is awak= e and active... I was hoping to tire him out!" "Ah, the little one wants a= ttention," he said fondly. "But surely you know that babies cannot always = be expected to expel their energy in order to be made to sleep. They must = be soothed to slumber." "There is hardly a way for me to accomplish that,"= she said with a sigh, but she absently rubbed her stomach hopefully. It w= as a temporary solution; as soon as her unborn babe found his target, he ki= cked repeatedly at her belly where her hand was. The wanderer smiled and a= gain they stopped. "Allow me?" He lowered himself to one knee and in a cl= ear, calming voice, began to sing so sweetly, in such a way as she had neve= r before heard. The language was foreign, his own or perhaps of another to= ngue, but she listened and knew it must be a lullaby. H=EAn en aer Lasto d= =EEn Mae =EEdh h=EAn melui Le linnathon aerlinn n=EDn Oltho, oltho Falas l= ithui Aur n=F3rui, faiun faen Gaear gwaelath, n=EAn hithui Le tiron Drego = morn Mae =EEdh h=EAn melui D=EEno anim lasto lorn When he finished, she co= uld tell that the babe was resting. "Your magic has worked well on him. I= f only you could do that every morn!" He did not answer at first, but pres= sed the tips of his fingers barely against her belly where the babe slept. = "He is anxious to see the world and that is why he is so stubborn. What p= lans have you tomorrow?" "Tomorrow?" She searched to remember, feeling as= if she, too, was under some trance from his singing. "My sister and my co= usins and I are canning tomatoes, and then there is the wash to be done." = "Do not put off until tomorrow what can be done today," he advised. "You wi= ll have your day planned for you by Eru's will tomorrow." This bit of prop= hecy intrigued her. "You can tell that by only a touch?" He stood up and = shrugged. "I have been around a long while. That which seems strange and = unusual to you is a simple thing for me. Have you a name for him?" "How d= id you know it was a..." She smiled and shook her head. "You just know, I= suppose, and no, I do not. I have searched for something special... perha= ps there is a name in your language I could use." "Our names are given by = our traits and our actions. I can only make suggestions, for only you know= your child so well." "What names do you favor?" she asked, glad for the c= alm he had brought her. The wanderer considered her request before he answ= ered. "If he is fair to look upon and just, name him Maitimo; if his beaut= y is dark and he is loyal, then Carnistir will do. If he is like his fathe= r, call him Atarink=EB, but if his will is strong and his temper harsh, Tye= lkormo. You are not having twins, so I have no other names to suggest." "= Those are all very respectable names, but I am not sure any of them would f= it. What shall I name him if he is a dreamer?" "I have no name for you fo= r that; my dreams are all spent." "My time here is spent as well," she sai= d sadly as the sun fully announced the day. "I must return home." "And I = must continue on my path, no matter where it leads. Fare you well," wished= the wanderer. "May your road take you safely home," she offered him befor= e she turned to walk away. After a few steps, she turned back to see him a= lready on his way again. "Have you no other name?" she called out. He st= opped, eyes cast down at his feet as they often were. His mind bid him to = press on and say nothing, but his heart tricked his lips to speak. One nam= e he gave her, and she delighted in hearing it. The next day, it was besto= wed upon her newly born son. -end- -- Tales from Valinor... they're magi= cally delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're always after me purple bu= nnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2095 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75605 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2008 05:05:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2008 05:05:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2008 05:05:17 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 23866 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jul 2008 05:05:14 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:05:13 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 22:05:13 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-287523287-1215234313=:22641" Message-ID: <999720.22641.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Sequels to Reflections in the Deep X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=8Jv7RylPHsOzJL9Sest2qesfYB7UkZhIludcVtpoefRtubaepg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-287523287-1215234313=:22641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hehe thanks so much Feta! ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with man= y names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresent= ative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Feta = wrote: From: Feta Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild= ] Re: Sequels to Reflections in the Deep To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo= groups.com Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 1:59 PM >= A few of you suggested that Reflections in the Deep had a sequel. Well I j= ust posted two more. Hope you enjoy! I would just like to add that they w= ere fabulous... seriously, everyone should go read them right now. = --0-287523287-1215234313=:22641 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
hehe thanks so much Feta!

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Fri, 7/4/08, Feta wrote:
From: Feta
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Sequels to Reflections in the Deep
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 1:59 PM

> A few of you suggested that Reflections in the Deep had a sequel. Well I just posted two more. Hope you enjoy!


I would just like to add that they were fabulous... seriously, everyone should go read them right now.


--0-287523287-1215234313=:22641-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2096 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38636 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 15:17:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 15:17:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 15:17:48 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 67838 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jul 2008 15:17:47 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 08:17:47 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 08:17:47 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-890695533-1215530267=:67365" Message-ID: <694868.67365.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Great writing tips X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=U1BhGK9112tcALVgzujyGVsMgyO-Qu3vhRweSe4b1KJGZi1FpA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-890695533-1215530267=:67365 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NiRi posted these on her group and I had to repost them because they're gre= at. Sadly I commit ALOT of these offenses but the good news is that my beta= s have been nagging me about some of them lately so I do think I'm getting = better. Gwynnyd didn't say anything about POV switch in my last betaed chap= ter. Of course that's because=A0I was too busy doing other things like over= adverbing and adjectiving it to death =3D0) =A0 =A0 =A0 Allen Guthrie is = an acquisitions editor. Link: http://absolutewrit e.com/forums/ showthrea= d. php?t=3D102594 Allen Guthrie's Infamous Writing Tips ------------ --= ------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - ---------- Allen Guthrie= , an acquisition editor for Point Blank Press, wrote up a 'white paper' thr= ee years ago called 'Hunting Down the Pleonasms' that has become a cult cla= ssic. Guthrie gave Adventure Books of Seattle permission to reprint this do= cument wherever we liked. It is a permanent download over at our main site= , but I wanted to reproduce it here. It is very specific. Over at the AB si= te, it's been downloaded hundreds of times, and I think every writer should= post this on the wall near their computer. 'Hunting Down the Pleonasms' = I can't stress strongly enough that writing is subjective. We all strive f= or different goals. Consequently, we all need our own set of rules=97and so= me of us don't need rules at all! Personally, I like rules. If nothing else= , it's fun breaking them. 1: Avoid pleonasms. A pleonasm is a word or phra= se which can be removed from a sentence without changing its meaning. For e= xample, in "Hunting Down The Pleonasm", `down' is pleonastic. Cut it and th= e meaning of the sentence does not alter. Many words are used pleonastical= ly: `just', `that' and `actually' are three frequently-seen culprits (I act= ually just know that he's the killer can be trimmed to I know he's the kill= er), and phrases like `more or less' and `in any shape or form' are redunda= nt. 2: Use oblique dialogue. Try to generate conflict at all times in your= writing. Attempt the following experiment at home or work: spend the day r= efusing to answer your family and colleagues' questions directly. Did you g= enerate conflict? I bet you did. Apply that principle to your writing and = your characters will respond likewise. 3: Use strong verbs in preference t= o adverbs. I won't say avoid adverbs, period, because about once every fift= y pages they're okay! What's not okay is to use an adverb as an excuse for = failing to find the correct verb. To `walk slowly' is much less effective t= han to `plod' or `trudge'. To `connect strongly' is much less effective tha= n to `forge a connection'. 4: Cut adjectives where possible. See rule 3 (f= or `verb' read `noun'). 5: Pairs of adjectives are exponentially worse tha= n single adjectives. The `big, old' man walked slowly towards the `tall, be= autiful' girl. When I read a sentence like that, I'm hoping he dies before = he arrives at his destination. Mind you, that's probably a cue for a `noisy= , white' ambulance to arrive. Wailingly, perhaps! 6: Keep speeches short. = Any speech of more than three sentences should be broken up. Force your cha= racter to do something. Make him take note of his surroundings. Ground the = reader. Create a sense of place. 7: If you find you've said the same thing= more than once, choose the best and cut the rest. Frequently, I see the sa= me idea presented several ways. It's as if the writer is saying, "The first= couple of images might not work, but the third one should do it. If not, m= aybe all three together will swing it." The writer is repeating himself. Li= ke this. This is a subtle form of pleonasm. 8: Show, don't tell. Much vaun= ted advice, yet rarely heeded. An example: expressing emotion indirectly. I= s your preferred reader intelligent? Yes? Then treat them accordingly. Tear= s were streaming down Lila's face. She was very sad. Can the second sentenc= e be inferred from the first? In context, let's hope so. So cut it. If you= want to engage your readers, don't explain everything to them. Show them w= hat's happening and allow their intelligence to do the rest. And there's a = bonus to this approach. Because movies, of necessity, show rather than tell= , this approach to your writing will help when it's time to begin work on t= he screenplay adaptation of your novel! 9: Describe the environment in way= s that are pertinent to the story. And try to make such descriptions active= . Instead of describing a book lying on a table, have your psycho-killer pr= otagonist pick it up, glance at it and move it to the arm of the sofa. He n= eeds something to do to break up those long speeches, right? 10: Don't be = cute. In the above example, your protagonist should not be named Si Coe. 1= 1: Avoid sounding `writerly'. Better to dirty up your prose. When you sound= like a writer, your voice has crept in and authorial intrusion is always u= nwelcome. In the best writing, the author is invisible. 12: Fix your Point= Of View (POV). Make it clear whose head you're in as early as possible. An= d stay there for the duration of the scene. Unless you're already a highly = successful published novelist, in which case you can do what you like. The = reality is that although most readers aren't necessarily clued up on the f= iner points of POV, they know what's confusing and what isn't. 13: Don't c= onfuse the reader. If you write something you think might be unclear, it is= . Big time. Change it or cut it. 14: Use `said' to carry dialogue. Sid Fle= ischman calls `said', "the invisible word." 15: Whilst it's good to assum= e your reader is intelligent, never assume they're psychic. 16: Start scen= es late and leave them early. 17: When writing a novel, start with your ch= aracters in action. Fill in any necessary backstory as you go along. 18: G= ive your characters clear goals. Always. Every scene. And provide obstacles= to those goals. Always. Every scene. If the POV character in a scene does = not have a goal, provide one or cut the scene. If there is no obstacle, add= one or cut the scene. 19: Don't allow characters who are sexually attract= ed to one another the opportunity to get into bed unless at least one of th= em has a jealous partner. 20: Torture your protagonist. It's not enough fo= r him to be stuck up a tree. You must throw rocks at him while he figures o= ut how to get down. 21: Use all five senses in your descriptions. Smell an= d touch are too often neglected. 22: Vary your sentence lengths. I tend to= write short, and it's amazing what a difference combing a couple of senten= ces can make. 23: Don't allow your fictional characters to speak in senten= ces. Unless you want them to sound fictional. 24: Cut out filtering device= s, wherever possible. `He felt', `he thought', `he observed' are all filter= s. They distance the reader from the character. 25: Avoid unnecessary repe= tition of tense. For example: I'd gone to the hospital. They'd kept me wait= ing for hours. Eventually, I'd seen a doctor. Usually, the first sentence i= s sufficient to establish tense. I'd gone to the hospital. They kept me wai= ting for hours. Eventually, I saw a doctor. 26: When you finish your book,= pinpoint the weakest scene and cut it. If necessary, replace it with a sen= tence or paragraph. 27: Don't plant information. How is Donald, your son? = I'm quite sure Donald's father doesn't need reminding who Donald is. Their = relationship is mentioned purely to provide the reader with information. 2= 8: If an opinion expressed through dialogue makes your POV character look l= ike a jerk, allow him to think it rather than say it. He'll express the sam= e opinion, but seem like a lot less of a jerk. 29: Characters who smile an= d grin a lot come across as deranged fools. Sighing and shrugging are also = actions to avoid. Eliminating smiles, sighs and shrugs is almost always an = improvement. Smiling sadly is a capital offence. 30: Pronouns are big trou= ble for such little words. The most useful piece of information I ever enco= untered on the little blighters was this: pronouns refer to the nearest mat= ching noun backwards. For example: John took the knife out of its sheath an= d stabbed Paul with it. Well, that's good news for Paul. If you travel bac= kwards from `it', you'll see that John has stabbed Paul with the sheath! Ob= serving this rule leads to much clearer writing. 31: Spot the moment of ma= ximum tension and hold it for as long as possible. Or as John D. MacDonald = put it: "Freeze the action and shoot him later." 32: If something works, f= orget about the rule that says it shouldn't ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kath= ye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her http://kso= uza.avonrepresentative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --0-890695533-1215530267=:67365 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

NiRi posted these on her group and I had t= o repost them because they're great. Sadly I commit ALOT of these offenses = but the good news is that my betas have been nagging me about some of them = lately so I do think I'm getting better. Gwynnyd didn't say anything about = POV switch in my last betaed chapter. Of course that's because I was t= oo busy doing other things like over adverbing and adjectiving it to death = =3D0)

 

 

 


Allen Guthrie is= an acquisitions editor.

Link: http://absolutewrit e.com/forums/ showthread. php?t=3D102594

Allen Guthrie's Infamous Writing Tips

------------= --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
----------

A= llen Guthrie, an acquisition editor for Point Blank Press, wrote up a 'whit= e paper' three years ago called 'Hunting Down the Pleonasms' that has becom= e a cult classic. Guthrie gave Adventure Books of Seattle permission to rep= rint this document wherever we liked. It is
a permanent download over a= t our main site, but I wanted to reproduce it here. It is very specific. Ov= er at the AB site, it's been downloaded hundreds of times, and I think ever= y writer should post this on the wall near their computer.

'Hunting= Down the Pleonasms'

I can't stress strongly enough that writing is= subjective. We all strive for different goals. Consequently, we all need o= ur own set of rules=97and some of us don't need rules at all! Personally, I= like rules. If nothing else, it's fun breaking them.

1: Avoid pleon= asms. A pleonasm is a word or phrase which can be removed from a sentence w= ithout changing its meaning. For example, in "Hunting Down The Pleonasm", `= down' is pleonastic. Cut it and the meaning of the sentence does not alter.= Many words are used
pleonastically: `just', `that' and `actually' are = three frequently-seen culprits (I actually just know that he's the killer c= an be trimmed to I know he's the killer), and phrases like `more or less' a= nd `in any shape or form' are redundant.

2: Use oblique dialogue. Tr= y to generate conflict at all times in your writing. Attempt the following = experiment at home or work: spend the day refusing to answer your family an= d colleagues' questions directly. Did you generate conflict? I bet you did= . Apply that
principle to your writing and your characters will respond= likewise.

3: Use strong verbs in preference to adverbs. I won't= say avoid adverbs, period, because about once every fifty pages they're ok= ay! What's not okay is to use an adverb as an excuse for failing to find th= e correct verb. To `walk slowly' is much less effective than to `plod' or `= trudge'. To `connect strongly' is much less effective than to `forge a conn= ection'.

4: Cut adjectives where possible. See rule 3 (for `verb' re= ad `noun').

5: Pairs of adjectives are exponentially worse than = single adjectives. The `big, old' man walked slowly towards the `tall, beau= tiful' girl. When I read a sentence like that, I'm hoping he dies before he= arrives at his destination. Mind you, that's probably a cue for a `noisy, = white' ambulance to arrive. Wailingly, perhaps!


6: Keep speeches= short. Any speech of more than three sentences should be broken up. Force = your character to do something. Make him take note of his surroundings. Gro= und the reader. Create a sense of place.

7: If you find you've said = the same thing more than once, choose the best and cut the rest. Frequently= , I see the same idea presented several ways. It's as if the writer is sayi= ng, "The first couple of images might not work, but the third one should do= it. If not, maybe all three together will swing it." The writer is repeati= ng himself. Like this. This is a subtle form of pleonasm.

8: Show, d= on't tell. Much vaunted advice, yet rarely heeded. An example: expressing e= motion indirectly. Is your preferred reader intelligent? Yes? Then treat th= em accordingly. Tears were streaming down Lila's face. She was very sad. Ca= n the second sentence be
inferred from the first? In context, let's hop= e so. So cut it. If you want to engage your readers, don't explain everyth= ing to them. Show them what's happening and allow their intelligence to do = the rest. And there's a bonus to this approach. Because movies, of necessit= y, show rather than tell, this approach to your writing will help when it's= time to begin work on the screenplay adaptation of your novel!

9: D= escribe the environment in ways that are pertinent to the story. And try to= make such descriptions active. Instead of describing a book lying on a tab= le, have your psycho-killer protagonist pick it up, glance at it and move i= t to the arm of the sofa. He needs something to do to break up those long s= peeches, right?

10: Don't be cute. In the above example, your protag= onist should not be named Si Coe.

11: Avoid sounding `writerly'. Bet= ter to dirty up your prose. When you sound like a writer, your voice has cr= ept in and authorial intrusion is always unwelcome. In the best writing, th= e author is invisible.

12: Fix your Point Of View (POV). Make it cl= ear whose head you're in as early as possible. And stay there for the durat= ion of the scene. Unless you're already a highly successful published novel= ist, in which case you can do what you like. The reality is that although <= BR>most readers aren't necessarily clued up on the finer points of POV, the= y know what's confusing and what isn't.


13: Don't confuse the re= ader. If you write something you think might be unclear, it is. Big time. C= hange it or cut it.


14: Use `said' to carry dialogue. Sid Fleisc= hman calls `said', "the invisible word."

15: Whilst it's good to as= sume your reader is intelligent, never assume they're psychic.

16: S= tart scenes late and leave them early.

17: When writing a novel, sta= rt with your characters in action. Fill in any necessary backstory as you g= o along.

18: Give your characters clear goals. Always. Every scene. = And provide obstacles to those goals. Always. Every scene. If the POV chara= cter in a scene does not have a goal, provide one or cut the scene. If ther= e is no obstacle, add one or cut the scene.

19: Don't allow characte= rs who are sexually attracted to one another the opportunity to get into be= d unless at least one of them has a jealous partner.

20: Torture you= r protagonist. It's not enough for him to be stuck up a tree. You must thro= w rocks at him while he figures out how to get down.

21: Use all fiv= e senses in your descriptions. Smell and touch are too often neglected.
22: Vary your sentence lengths. I tend to write short, and it's amazin= g what a difference combing a couple of sentences can make.

23: Don'= t allow your fictional characters to speak in sentences. Unless you want th= em to sound fictional.

24: Cut out filtering devices, wherever possi= ble. `He felt', `he thought', `he observed' are all filters. They distance = the reader from the character.

25: Avoid unnecessary repetition of t= ense. For example: I'd gone to the hospital. They'd kept me waiting for hou= rs. Eventually, I'd seen a doctor. Usually, the first sentence is sufficien= t to establish tense. I'd gone to the hospital. They kept me waiting for ho= urs. Eventually, I saw a doctor.

26: When you finish your book, pinp= oint the weakest scene and cut it. If necessary, replace it with a sentence= or paragraph.

27: Don't plant information. How is Donald, your son?= I'm quite sure Donald's father doesn't need reminding who Donald is. Thei= r relationship is mentioned purely to provide the reader with information.<= BR>
28: If an opinion expressed through dialogue makes your POV characte= r look like a jerk, allow him to think it rather than say it. He'll express= the same opinion, but seem like a lot less of a jerk.

29: Character= s who smile and grin a lot come across as deranged fools. Sighing and shrug= ging are also actions to avoid. Eliminating smiles, sighs and shrugs is alm= ost always an improvement. Smiling sadly is a capital offence.

30: P= ronouns are big trouble for such little words. The most useful piece of inf= ormation I ever encountered on the little blighters was this: pronouns refe= r to the nearest matching noun backwards. For example: John took the knife = out of its sheath and stabbed Paul with
it. Well, that's good news for = Paul. If you travel backwards from `it', you'll see that John has stabbed P= aul with the sheath! Observing this rule leads to much clearer writing.
31: Spot the moment of maximum tension and hold it for as long as poss= ible. Or as John D. MacDonald put it: "Freeze the action and shoot him late= r."

32: If something works, forget about the rule that says it shoul= dn't

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

= --0-890695533-1215530267=:67365-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2097 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3821 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 16:04:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 16:04:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 16:04:59 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d06.36526494 (41811) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:04:43 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215533083" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Great writing tips X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=tX8pVna6b0DV7QfRtM0lsoxpB4tUHL65u55WOrxWTySn_8cbOEqd X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215533083 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 10:18:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: Gwynnyd didn't say anything about POV switch in my last betaed chapter. I have doing a lot of reading outside of Tolkien fanfic in the last few weeks and noticed how many terrific uses of multiple POVs I have seen in stories and novels, that are done really effectrively, correctly, and well and has made the stories really interesting. I also just read three separate novels that were done in one POV each throughout the entire novel. So don't be afraid to use POV switches. Just do them correctly. I have found a lot of people Betaing in Tolkien fanfics over emphasize using only one POV. It is true that using one POV is one way for a beginning writer to master POV, but not the only way to write. I think the important thing is to be aware of whose POV one is writing in at any given time. (I am currently stuck in the one POV groove per chapter or segment because I've been harrassed about it so much--I really want to break loose of that.) **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215533083 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 7/8/2008 10:18:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes:=
Gwynnyd didn't say anything about PO= V switch in my last betaed chapter.
 
I have doing a lot of reading outside of Tolkien fanfic = in the last few weeks and noticed how many terrific uses of multiple POV= s I have seen in stories and novels, that are done really effectrively, = correctly, and well and has made the stories really interestin= g. I also just read three separate novels that were done in one POV each= throughout the entire novel. So don't be afraid to use POV switches.&nb= sp;Just do them correctly. I have found a lot of people Betaing in = Tolkien fanfics over emphasize using only one POV. It is true that = using one POV is one way for a beginning writer to master POV, but not t= he only way to write. I think the important thing is to be aware of whos= e POV one is writing in at any given time. (I am currently stuck in the = one POV groove per chapter or segment because I've been harrassed about it = so much--I really want to break loose of that.)

<= BR>
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL A= utos for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1215533083-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2098 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24927 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 16:56:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 16:56:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.182) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 16:56:23 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so1896457wah.18 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:56:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.106.7 with SMTP id i7mr8075732wam.131.1215536182837; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:56:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 09:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:56:22 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21238_19962470.1215536182736" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Great writing tips X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0WgR5IoFVbCgGN0DKDEGRPk12YC12CbLeI27kDKucIu7wRxNxEK3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_21238_19962470.1215536182736-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2099 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28877 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 17:23:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 17:23:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 17:23:47 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c98.2e093839 (41811) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:23:27 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215537807" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Great writing tips X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=zSxpfQvQAF1HDcKdTZRyu6fNWqLxYfv4K_4Eg0la2qO-0DK5ePuL X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215537807 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 12:01:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: Otherwise, I tend to feel that if you don't like first person, and I write mostly first person, then don't read my work, simple. But there's no need to comment on it, just as it's rude for me to comment to a person wearing a purple dress, "Oh, but I hate purple!" when such a comment is not meant to convey anything constructive. I was very happy to see you rant on POV, because I have worn out most people I know (you being the exception, because although you have Betaed a lot for me, you've never tortured me about it) ranting about POV stubborness. One of my friends, an excellent writer (elfscribe, some might know her) has written some awesome love scenes, where she changes POV every few lines. She does it correctly and it works. The one thing that I hate to hear is when someone reading something like that says: I was reading along and you changed POV--it really upset me! I want to ask, well, why was that? Clumsy POV or forgetting whose head one is in, is a totally different question. Some of my initial problems with fiction did come from suddenly flipping POV, merely because I forgot where I was; I would throw in a random POV switch out of nowhere. Another good writer, Jael, used to more often use a lovely somewhat distant, mildly archaic, omniscient third, and had people try to beat it out of her. But it fit with the style of those particular stories. That prejudice has caused me to slavishly stick to a very close third--which is somewhat more modern, can be more personal (and fits especially well with my fairly initimate and gossipy style), but it surely isn't right for anyone. I didn't realize that first person was a frowned upon style. I've only written a couple and although they turned out rather well, I found them somewhat exposing and difficult to write. Less opportunity for authorial nudging of the reader in the right direction and must be so much closer in voice to the characters. I decided since people always like my dialogue, that I should occasionally try first person. It's a lot of work for me. AMC knocked my socks off initially for its wonderful use of first person and how each voice, when you changed between chapters, was so spot-on and true to the character. Current pet peeve for me, if we are talking about prejudices here, is long segments in italics. That's cheating. The fanfic cheap and easy way to tell the reader "this is in his head; he's not saying it out loud." I'm currently trying to move away from those. I want to learn to write those so I don't have to put up a sign pointing to them. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215537807 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/8/2008 12:01:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:
I was very happy= to see you rant on POV, because I have worn out most people I know (you b= eing the exception, because although you have Betaed a lot for me, you've = never tortured me about it) ranting about POV stubborness. One of my frien= ds, an excellent writer (elfscribe, some might know her) has written some = awesome love scenes, where she changes POV every few lines. She does it co= rrectly and it works. The one thing that I hate to hear is when someone re= ading something like that says: I was reading along and you changed POV--it= really upset me! I want to ask, well, why was that? Clumsy POV or forgett= ing whose head one is in, is a totally different question. Some of my init= ial problems with fiction did come from suddenly flipping POV, merely beca= use I forgot where I was; I would throw in a random POV switch out of nowh= ere. Another good writer, Jael, used to more often use a lovely somewhat d= istant, mildly archaic, omniscient third, and had people try to beat it ou= t of her. But it fit with the style of those particular stories. That prej= udice has caused me to slavishly stick to a very close third--which is som= ewhat more modern, can be more personal (and fits especially well with my = fairly initimate and gossipy style), but it surely isn't right for anyone.=
 
I didn't realize that first person was a fro= wned upon style. I've only written a couple and although they turned out r= ather well, I found them somewhat exposing and difficult to write. Le= ss opportunity for authorial nudging of the reader in the right direc= tion and must be so much closer in voice to the characters. I decided sinc= e people always like my dialogue, that I should occasionally try first per= son. It's a lot of work for me. AMC knocked my socks off initially for its= wonderful use of first person and how each voice, when you changed betwee= n chapters, was so spot-on and true to the character.
 
Current pet peeve for me, if we are talking about prejudices here, = is long segments in italics. That's cheating. The fanfic cheap and easy wa= y to tell the reader "this is in his head; he's not saying it out loud." I= 'm currently trying to move away from those. I want to learn to write thos= e so I don't have to put up a sign pointing to them.


<= BR>
<= HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos= for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1215537807-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2100 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57222 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 17:44:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 17:44:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 17:44:09 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j4so1510242wah.3 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:44:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.108.1 with SMTP id k1mr8168449wam.109.1215539048008; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:44:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 10:44:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:44:07 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <694868.67365.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21601_8870302.1215539047994" References: <694868.67365.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Great writing tips X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Gxk9nPwKGsHJSnZfw9DFIKCCiRduGKCWGZ6uK4C7hTviXB-AjJ-s X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_21601_8870302.1215539047994-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2101 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51121 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 17:57:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 17:57:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.178) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 17:57:29 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so1284525pye.8 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:57:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.202.15 with SMTP id z15mr8196020waf.88.1215539848716; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:57:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 10:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:57:28 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21699_8631114.1215539848711" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Great writing tips X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=vC2NQAoMkSOyHcOvtlOKiiu8vnvKCP-ymt712Dnn9hd25lkCKsGN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_21699_8631114.1215539848711-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2102 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60170 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 18:28:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 18:28:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 18:28:22 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c8d.273a8d4b (41811) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:28:17 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215541697" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: POV Again - check this one out X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=tBBN2bxwWiV9_8smNFF6Du_O13ECxUfH-OiH7LmV2iQh7vIQA8f- X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215541697 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter_view.cfm?stid=3561&SPOrdinal=1_ (http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter_view.cfm?stid=3561&SPOrdinal=1) Take at look at this. I just looked up this story for another reason and found myself reading it attentive to POV. I love it. Whose POV? It doesn't really matter. It absolutely works. A lot of people would have been all over this with a blue pencil, but it is, in fact, one of the best sword fight stories I've read. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215541697 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Take at look at this. I jus= t looked up this story for another reason and found myself reading it atte= ntive to POV. I love it. Whose POV? It doesn't really matter. It absolutel= y works.
 
A lot of people would have been = all over this with a blue pencil, but it is, in fact, one of the best swor= d fight stories I've read.



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used car= s.
-------------------------------1215541697-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2103 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20423 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 19:41:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 19:41:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 19:41:53 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cc7.36e94301 (41811) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 15:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 15:41:45 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215546105" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Question re: Celeborn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=02gz9cgX2L1_2kj8Pr52ODFT-y5ls5fbJZ1n9it1mkf2eC-B8qlp X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215546105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody know where I got the idea that Celeborn is specifically referred to somewhere as Thingol's nephew? I know in the Silmarillion it simply says kinsman, but I usually do not make these things up and I seemed to remember nephew from somewhere. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215546105 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Anybody know wher= e I got the idea that Celeborn is specifically referred to somewhere as Th= ingol's nephew? I know in the Silmarillion it simply says kinsman= , but I usually do not make these things up and I seemed to remember n= ephew from somewhere.



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars= .
-------------------------------1215546105-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2104 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10924 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 19:48:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 19:48:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 19:48:29 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 71418 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jul 2008 19:48:29 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:48:29 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:48:29 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-464351645-1215546509=:71195" Message-ID: <357450.71195.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question re: Celeborn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=b9mnyynAp6mBec4LIrr6GPOGTFa5LjhSQURykMazESDiO8gPEg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-464351645-1215546509=:71195 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I *think* thats fanon. Very common fanon but fanon. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alas= sante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her = http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Tue, 7/8/08, hear= tofoshun@aol.com wrote: From: heartofoshun@aol.com = Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question re: Cel= eborn To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2= 008, 3:41 PM Anybody know where I got the idea that Celeborn is spec= ifically referred to somewhere as Thingol's nephew? I know in the Silmarill= ion it simply says kinsman, but I usually do not make these things up and I= seemed to remember nephew from somewhere. Gas prices getting you down= ? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. --0-464351645-1215546509=:71195 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I *think* thats fanon. Very common fanon but fanon.

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 7/8/08, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question re: Celeborn
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 3:41 PM

Anybody know where I got the idea that Celeborn is specifically referred to somewhere as Thingol's nephew? I know in the Silmarillion it simply says kinsman, but I usually do not make these things up and I seemed to remember nephew from somewhere.



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

--0-464351645-1215546509=:71195-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2105 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35202 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 19:49:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 19:49:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 19:49:42 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D12D0748077 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 21:49:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 21:49:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 21:49:39 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <891957132.20080708214939@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question re: Celeborn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=hI41XY1R1jp7JOLuWiLbJ1RlPVo_81eVCvSx5JYyQdpmybTUWsw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, I don't remember where it is, but check here: http://www.glyphweb.com/Arda/g/galadhon.html Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2106 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17402 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 19:52:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 19:52:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 19:52:49 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E3D74808C for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 21:52:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 21:52:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 21:52:47 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <259182265.20080708215247@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <357450.71195.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <357450.71195.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question re: Celeborn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=JOBBNBih8FR4g2lv0roDVftgaS89tp0a10m8PfnCS-Qc2_uSf6c X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante, A> I *think* thats fanon. Very common fanon but fanon. Created by that JRR Tolkien guy ;) That's from HoME or UT (which means HoME anyway). Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2107 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrapcat21@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22948 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 19:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 19:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n52b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.166) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 19:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n52.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 19:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 19:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 19:58:20 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:58:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "keiliss" Subject: Re: Question re: Celeborn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=238321209; y=peiikfnA0NGjn4Af5hAei2kN-OIeNiCe4co4anQRbpCdczOIKQ X-Yahoo-Profile: keiliss According to my notes, it's mentioned in Unfinished Tales that Celeborn is= the grandson of Thingol's younger brother Elmo. ~Kei --- In Silmarillio= nWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > Anybody know whe= re I got the idea that Celeborn is specifically referred to > somewhere a= s Thingol's nephew? I know in the Silmarillion it simply says > kinsman, = but I usually do not make these things up and I seemed to remember > neph= ew from somewhere. > > > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Se= arch AOL Autos for > fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/= used?ncid=3Daolaut00050000000007) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2108 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22798 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 20:08:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 20:08:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 20:08:17 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 86516 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jul 2008 20:08:17 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:08:17 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:08:17 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1374710515-1215547697=:85698" Message-ID: <115235.85698.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question re: Celeborn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=RCsFTxv1fYaMY2AIJxHDKx7W2oN-oWVVR0DwR4cv6LZNStO00w X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1374710515-1215547697=:85698 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops. Sorry Oshun! ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many nam= es....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.= com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Tue, 7/8/08, keiliss wrote:= From: keiliss Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] = Re: Question re: Celeborn To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date= : Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 3:58 PM According to my notes, it's mention= ed in Unfinished Tales that Celeborn is the grandson of Thingol's younger b= rother Elmo. ~Kei --- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, hea= rtofoshun@ ... wrote: > > Anybody know where I got the idea that Celeborn i= s specifically referred to > somewhere as Thingol's nephew? I know in the = Silmarillion it simply says > kinsman, but I usually do not make these thi= ngs up and I seemed to remember > nephew from somewhere. > > > > *****= ******* **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for > fuel-efficie= nt used cars. (http://autos. aol.com/used? ncid=3Daolaut00050 000000007) >= --0-1374710515-1215547697=:85698 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Oops. Sorry Oshun!

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 7/8/08, keiliss wrote:
From: keiliss
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question re: Celeborn
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 3:58 PM


According to my notes, it's mentioned in Unfinished Tales that
Celeborn is the grandson of Thingol's younger brother Elmo.

~Kei

--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, heartofoshun@ ... wrote:
>
> Anybody know where I got the idea that Celeborn is specifically
referred to
> somewhere as Thingol's nephew? I know in the Silmarillion it simply
says
> kinsman, but I usually do not make these things up and I seemed to
remember
> nephew from somewhere.
>
>
>
> ************ **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
> fuel-efficient used cars.
(http://autos. aol.com/used? ncid=aolaut00050 000000007)
>


--0-1374710515-1215547697=:85698-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2109 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71997 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 20:11:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 20:11:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.183) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 20:11:43 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so1301756pyb.10 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:11:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.205.1 with SMTP id c1mr8464524wag.56.1215547902986; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:11:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:11:42 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_22302_15028060.1215547902999" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question re: Celeborn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-Zamsa1lI2yLe40VpE6UEU5GMc6YI3X6XNBSOhNYUrNp_a6fNzhI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_22302_15028060.1215547902999-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2110 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40533 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 20:16:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 20:16:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 20:16:56 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cc1.39fb9e9e (41811) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:16:52 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215548212" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question re: Celeborn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=P1JMQcgAo8JyFf533pqBmLPxlPcnpnT1AREmI4NqjCDxGOcplFH3 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215548212 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 2:59:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, scrapcat21@gmail.com writes: According to my notes, it's mentioned in Unfinished Tales that Celeborn is the grandson of Thingol's younger brother Elmo. ~Kei Thanks. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215548212 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/8/2008 2:59:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, scrapcat21@gmail.com wr= ites:
According to my notes, it's menti= oned in Unfinished Tales that
Celeborn is the grandson of Thingol's y= ounger brother Elmo.

~Kei
Thanks.



Gas pr= ices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1215548212-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2111 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45127 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 20:39:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 20:39:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n20d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.246) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 20:39:54 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 20:39:54 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 20:39:54 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:39:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=-ah8OAqWzLpmDF9ncmJsGTtZNV0yxhJ_xlEV0vqC0eK-bhuyMw X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala Ok, maybe it's just because I'm in a giddy kind of mood right now, but I ha= ve to say, the mention of Thingol's brother Elmo had me descend into giggle= s. Which recalled up similar laughter, long ago, upon reading those drafts= in which Frodo is called Bingo. I mean no disrespect to Tolkien or his na= ming systems, and I'm aware that his Elmo actually came first... but come o= n, admit it. I'm not the only one amused by some of the names out there, a= m I? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2112 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43480 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 20:43:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 20:43:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 20:43:28 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d09.3b551b09 (32913) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:43:19 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215549799" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question re: Celeborn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=qWGYs7gDs48bCumFj_W5pJ02l5ytAncOLv1isUoJ14Gk9Xb5lwYQ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215549799 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 3:37:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: Oops. Sorry Oshun! Hey, I didn't know. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215549799 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/8/2008 3:37:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com wr= ites:
Oops. Sorry Oshun!
Hey, I didn't know.



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for = fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1215549799-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2113 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39180 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 20:44:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 20:44:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 20:44:03 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 5378 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jul 2008 20:44:02 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:44:02 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:44:02 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1719544587-1215549842=:4816" Message-ID: <584461.4816.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=_sjoDNcdSgZwbLN0NOqEpRVPNOhrJQ5KPjYClJ71PGrBx91Uhw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1719544587-1215549842=:4816 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Speaking of Celeborn...AKA Teleporno *giggle fit* No Feta - I don't think y= ou're the only one who gets giggles over Elmo. =A0 And when Aragorn was a h= obbit named Trotter? bwhahahaha ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat = with many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonre= presentative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Feta wrote: From: Feta Subject: [SilmarillionWriters= Guild] Tolkien's names... To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date= : Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 4:39 PM Ok, maybe it's just because I'm in a= giddy kind of mood right now, but I have to say, the mention of Thingol's = brother Elmo had me descend into giggles. Which recalled up similar laughte= r, long ago, upon reading those drafts in which Frodo is called Bingo. I m= ean no disrespect to Tolkien or his naming systems, and I'm aware that his = Elmo actually came first... but come on, admit it. I'm not the only one amu= sed by some of the names out there, am I? --0-1719544587-1215549842=:4816 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Speaking of Celeborn...AKA Teleporno *giggle fit* No Feta - I don't think you're the only one who gets giggles over Elmo.

 

And when Aragorn was a hobbit named Trotter? bwhahahaha

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 7/8/08, Feta wrote:
From: Feta
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien's names...
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 4:39 PM

Ok, maybe it's just because I'm in a giddy kind of mood right now, but
I have to say, the mention of Thingol's brother Elmo had me descend
into giggles. Which recalled up similar laughter, long ago, upon
reading those drafts in which Frodo is called Bingo.

I mean no disrespect to Tolkien or his naming systems, and I'm aware
that his Elmo actually came first... but come on, admit it. I'm not
the only one amused by some of the names out there, am I?


--0-1719544587-1215549842=:4816-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2114 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72419 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 20:45:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 20:45:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 20:45:48 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bd1.3445496d (32913) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:45:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:45:40 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215549940" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=sksTfNakZ7pAsvViqMwXczfB2ANMM3bRwOxkzPzEF5JGaiTwj2t3 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215549940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 3:40:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com writes: I mean no disrespect to Tolkien or his naming systems, and I'm aware that his Elmo actually came first... but come on, admit it. I'm not the only one amused by some of the names out there, am I? I think you have seen too much children's TV. I have an Elmo fan screeching at my heels as I type. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215549940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/8/2008 3:40:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com wr= ites:
I mean no disrespect to Tolkien o= r his naming systems, and I'm aware
that his Elmo actually came first= ... but come on, admit it. I'm not
the only one amused by some of the= names out there, am I?
I th= ink you have seen too much children's TV. I have an Elmo fan screeching at= my heels as I type.



Gas= prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.<= /FONT>
-------------------------------1215549940-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2115 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58480 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 20:49:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 20:49:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 20:49:17 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cca.343d75f0 (32913) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:48:52 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215550132" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=r2p7ezcwXwAvjRZ9uF7_zAjY5sOzCv7rOvnRVcAxf4JQh8Np0PKH X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215550132 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 3:44:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: Teleporno *giggle fit* I beg your pardon--I'm a language expert and I happen to know that means silver penis. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215550132 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/8/2008 3:44:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com wr= ites:
Teleporno *giggle fit*
I beg your pardon--I'm a language expert = and I happen to know that means silver penis.



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fu= el-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1215550132-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2116 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56151 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 21:05:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 21:05:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n48d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.174) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 21:05:50 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n48.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:05:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:05:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:05:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:05:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <584461.4816.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="7-1772858928-7562878651=:7" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=D1F4UVOR5xsLWNyxZNZlB3RGJso_8e4O3NmrUha9yaGufq2b6Q X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --7-1772858928-7562878651=:7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Speaking of Celeborn...AKA Teleporno *giggle fit* *joins in giggle fit* --7-1772858928-7562878651=:7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Speaking of Celeborn...AKA Teleporno *giggle fit*

*joins in = giggle fit*
--7-1772858928-7562878651=:7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2117 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96906 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 21:19:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 21:19:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.96) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 21:19:22 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 27513 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jul 2008 21:19:22 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:19:22 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:19:22 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1447312757-1215551962=:26983" Message-ID: <123225.26983.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=ORnQR6dX9Bralz-siGpe9jG25SsLb5dqZbJbGLy4mtaD0ljKUQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1447312757-1215551962=:26983 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Oshun. I just snorted pepsi out of my nose. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alas= sante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her = http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Tue, 7/8/08, hear= tofoshun@aol.com wrote: From: heartofoshun@aol.com = Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien's na= mes... To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 8, = 2008, 4:48 PM In a message dated 7/8/2008 3:44:24 PM Eastern Standa= rd Time, alassante7@yahoo. com writes: Teleporno *giggle fit* I beg your = pardon--I'm a language expert and I happen to know that means silver penis.= Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used= cars. --0-1447312757-1215551962=:26983 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Thanks Oshun. I just snorted pepsi out of my nose.

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 7/8/08, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien's names...
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 4:48 PM

In a message dated 7/8/2008 3:44:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo. com writes:
Teleporno *giggle fit*
I beg your pardon--I'm a language expert and I happen to know that means silver penis.



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

--0-1447312757-1215551962=:26983-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2118 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64688 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 21:22:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 21:22:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 21:22:57 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 10474 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jul 2008 21:22:56 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:22:56 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:22:56 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-258537408-1215552176=:7796" Message-ID: <911123.7796.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=w57FgK5gsm8RxZeQ1XElLHAeLMjid1lr8csaHy2Duov01vzpyw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-258537408-1215552176=:7796 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of my friends who was on a LOTR RPG with me has never read the Silm and= doesn't know that was really his name. I had a mushy gushy scene with him = and Gladdy and she called him that. My friend said she literally spewed pep= si all over her keyboard cause she thought I made up that name. I said damn= I couldn't make up a name that good! I had to explain to the whole group t= hat it was his real name lmao. I never bothered with any of their other nam= es after that. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names..= ..still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/= =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Feta wrote: From:= Feta Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Tolkie= n's names... To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, Ju= ly 8, 2008, 5:05 PM Speaking of Celeborn...AKA Teleporno *giggle fit*= *joins in giggle fit* --0-258537408-1215552176=:7796 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
One of my friends who was on a LOTR RPG with me has never read the Silm and doesn't know that was really his name. I had a mushy gushy scene with him and Gladdy and she called him that. My friend said she literally spewed pepsi all over her keyboard cause she thought I made up that name. I said damn I couldn't make up a name that good! I had to explain to the whole group that it was his real name lmao. I never bothered with any of their other names after that.

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 7/8/08, Feta wrote:
From: Feta
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Tolkien's names...
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 5:05 PM

Speaking of Celeborn...AKA Teleporno *giggle fit*

*joins in giggle fit*


--0-258537408-1215552176=:7796-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2119 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33145 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 21:25:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 21:25:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 21:25:36 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cf6.361348f5 (32913) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:25:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:25:29 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215552329" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=drzo9a2xECU8Uk14R6D40XttlqqXHqJ6-pvXwdx-sOr7SZGhqZL5 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215552329 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 4:23:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: I said damn I couldn't make up a name that good! The inadvertently ridiculous is always the funniest. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215552329 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/8/2008 4:23:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com wr= ites:
I said damn I couldn't make up a = name that good!
The inadvertently ridiculous is always the funniest.


Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Au= tos for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1215552329-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2120 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4990 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 21:28:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 21:28:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n15b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.119) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 21:28:01 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:28:01 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:28:01 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:28:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:27:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <123225.26983.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=NEAXOo4-p2c6NfD1GmYzkS_BERehNOcsfFZvuagOitPO5Bs X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 Being English, I thought I was *supposed* to be amused by the names... (= I refuse to apologise for 1400 years of dodgy humour!) --- In Silmarillion= WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > Thank= s Oshun. I just snorted pepsi out of my nose. > > > > > ~~**~~ > Ali K= at/Alassante/Kathye > A Kat with many names....still won't come when you c= all her > > http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ > =A0 > =A0 > =A0 > > -= -- On Tue, 7/8/08, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > From: he= artofoshun@... > Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild]= Tolkien's names... > To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > Date: = Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 4:48 PM > > > > > > > > > In a message dated= 7/8/2008 3:44:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo. com writes: = > Teleporno *giggle fit* > > I beg your pardon--I'm a language expert and= I happen to know that means silver penis. > > > > > > Gas prices get= ting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2121 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66297 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 21:32:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 21:32:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n12b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.110) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 21:32:35 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:32:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:32:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:32:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:32:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=cPq49BS1TVETNE53CUrBCKYN9xdgbLXSxwNHZyVWLkH9jD0 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 *Sigh* Quote me: (I refuse to apologise for 1400 years of dodgy humour!) = Apologises for 1400 years of dodgy humour, and holds up the 'JOKE!' sign -= in case anyone thinks I'm taking offense ;P (Damn our sense of humour!) = Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wrote: > > Being English, I thought I was *supposed* to be amused by = the > names... > > (I refuse to apologise for 1400 years of dodgy humour= !) > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 > wrote: > > > > Thanks Oshun. I just snorted pepsi out of my nose.= > > > > > > > > > > ~~**~~ > > Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye > > A Kat wi= th many names....still won't come when you call her > > > > http://ksouza.= avonrepresentative.com/ > > =A0 > > =A0 > > =A0 > > > > --- On Tue, 7/8/08= , heartofoshun@ wrote: > > > > From: heartofoshun@ > > Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien's names... > >= To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 20= 08, 4:48 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated = 7/8/2008 3:44:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, > alassante7@yahoo. com writes:= > > Teleporno *giggle fit* > > > > I beg your pardon--I'm a language exp= ert and I happen to know that > means silver penis. > > > > > > > > >= > > > Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient >= used cars. > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2122 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97173 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 21:33:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 21:33:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 21:33:28 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d16.2ee16868 (32913) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:33:23 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215552803" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=bpWx-jOI52npRKR8aIYcgPIekxxFTaRkprzA-O-1rwxktJL1-NX4 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215552803 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 4:28:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, xjay2@hotmail.com writes: Being English, I thought I was *supposed* to be amused by the names... (I refuse to apologise for 1400 years of dodgy humour!) English names are great. Hey, remember the Monty Python skits that were based on reading letters to the editor the major premise of which were the ridiculous, but entirely plausible names of the people who supposedly signed them. Also, my siblings and I used to go through telephone directories looking for ridiculous names. Cheap entertainment. Off the top of my head I recall Harry Butts and Bobbie Butts. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215552803 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 7/8/2008 4:28:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, xjay2@hotmail.com writes:
Being English, I thought I was *supposed* = to be amused by the
names...

(I refuse to apologise for 1400= years of dodgy humour!)
English names are great.= Hey, remember the Monty Python skits that were based on reading letters t= o the editor the major premise of which were the ridiculous, but entirely = plausible names of the people who supposedly signed them. Also, my sibling= s and I used to go through telephone directories looking for ridiculous na= mes. Cheap entertainment. Off the top of my head I recall Harry Butts and = Bobbie Butts.

 
 



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used c= ars.
-------------------------------1215552803-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2123 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67112 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 21:35:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 21:35:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n12.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.139) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 21:35:41 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n12.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:35:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:35:40 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:35:40 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:35:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5-1164898858-3198194554=:8" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=omXY7KigPVnyqYVwWjw8LgdidZptKiYpbpOLZECNP9PLPuHjxw X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --5-1164898858-3198194554=:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Teleporno *giggle fit* > > > I beg your pardon--I'm a language expert and= I happen to know that means > silver penis. Great. Now I nearly fell of= f my chair laughing, the entire building is silent, my window is open, and = everyone here has probably just lost that delusion that I'm normal... thank= s a lot. :p --5-1164898858-3198194554=:8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Teleporno *giggle fit*
>
>
> I beg your pardon= --I'm a language expert and I happen to know that means
> silver pe= nis.

Great.  Now I n= early fell off my chair laughing, the entire building is silent, my window = is open, and everyone here has probably just lost that delusion that I'm no= rmal... thanks a lot.  :p

--5-1164898858-3198194554=:8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2124 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21247 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 21:37:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 21:37:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 21:37:37 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bf0.2f6dc5d2 (32913) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:37:29 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215553049" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=c7Udz7mfR1vV5drvzSe7rod8xDBrpY4JQ5yJTusBCjoVaOZ_kQt2 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215553049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 4:35:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com writes: Now I nearly fell off my chair laughing, the entire building is silent, my window is open, and everyone here has probably just lost that delusion that I'm normal... thanks a lot. oops, sorry! Especially since it isn't even true (only the silver part, but I was too lazy to look up the rest). **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215553049 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/8/2008 4:35:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com wr= ites:
Now I nearly fell off my chair la= ughing, the entire building is silent, my window is open, and everyone h= ere has probably just lost that delusion that I'm normal... thanks a lot= . 
oops, sorry! Especially = since it isn't even true (only the silver part, but I was too lazy to look= up the rest).



Gas price= s getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.=
-------------------------------1215553049-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2125 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58788 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 21:39:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 21:39:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.128) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 21:39:36 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:39:36 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:39:36 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:39:36 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:39:35 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="6-1901309836-0476336150=:5" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=setPkGFxCZpAbxUFS5zJ89JnFhehNSyj8Kj5mYvvKLsOtWzwmQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --6-1901309836-0476336150=:5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cheap entertainment. Off the top of my head I recall Harry > Butts and Bobb= ie Butts. There is a street near here called "Butts Wynd" that I have to g= o down every day to get to class... but everyone here is just so damned sch= olarly that I have no one to laugh about it with. :/ --6-1901309836-0476336150=:5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cheap entertainment. Off the top of my head I recall Harry
> But= ts and Bobbie Butts.

There is a street near here called "Butts W= ynd" that I have to go down every day to get to class... but everyone here = is just so damned scholarly that I have no one to laugh about it with. = ; :/
--6-1901309836-0476336150=:5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2126 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27042 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 21:40:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 21:40:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 21:40:28 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:40:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 21:40:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:40:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=1blu2NAlS95XMTxEeiWbn58uaiYeOQ426NL547EpdFsabqA X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 We just cannot (no I mean really *cannot*) avoid taking the mick (OK, the = usual term is less polite!). Tolkien was not excluded from this cultural p= roblem. We should, as a nation, seek counselling to avoid bebothering and = confusticating our peers - but we are having too much fun ;P --- In Silma= rillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > In a mess= age dated 7/8/2008 4:28:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, > xjay2@... writes: = > > Being English, I thought I was *supposed* to be amused by the > name= s... > > (I refuse to apologise for 1400 years of dodgy humour!) > Engl= ish names are great. Hey, remember the Monty Python skits that were > ba= sed on reading letters to the editor the major premise of which were the = > ridiculous, but entirely plausible names of the people who supposedly s= igned them. > Also, my siblings and I used to go through telephone direct= ories looking for > ridiculous names. Cheap entertainment. Off the top o= f my head I recall Harry > Butts and Bobbie Butts. > > > > > > > = > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for > fue= l-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used? ncid=3Daolaut000500= 00000007) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2127 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91460 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 22:39:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 22:39:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.172) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 22:39:14 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 22:39:14 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 22:39:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2008 22:39:14 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:39:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=kWFJKksfXOYBChoPalidWK0fnoN7Jv2-wbun1aaZBzuuAtmJdbB2AUcZ X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Feta" wr= ote: > > Ok, maybe it's just because I'm in a giddy kind of mood right now,= but > I have to say, the mention of Thingol's brother Elmo had me descend = > into giggles. Which recalled up similar laughter, long ago, upon > readi= ng those drafts in which Frodo is called Bingo. > > I mean no disrespect t= o Tolkien or his naming systems, and I'm aware > that his Elmo actually cam= e first... but come on, admit it. I'm not > the only one amused by some of= the names out there, am I? Oh, I expect you're not the only one. I mean= , these are fairly hootworthy: Frito Bugger Spam Gangrene Moxie Dingleberr= y Pepsi Dingleberry Arrowroot son of Arrowshirt Gimlet son of Groin Legolam= Bromosel (brother of Farahslax) Goodgulf Greyteeth These nine set out to = Fordor to destroy the ring of the evil Sorhed... Oh. Wait. Wrong legendar= ium. [I <3 Doug Kenney and the boys -- now old farts -- of the Harvard Lam= poon] A Bored of the Rings fan site: http://boredoftherings.150m.com/bored= _main.html From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2128 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59641 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 22:57:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 22:57:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 22:57:48 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bc1.35bb307d (32913) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 18:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 18:57:35 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215557855" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=4xcsPVQdL5gcRFopXLm8epoiETClhPeNdhZ5ueZFChmHivoQxB23 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215557855 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 5:39:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: the Harvard Lampoon That parody was a bit like shooting fish in a barrel as they used to say where I came from--still funny though. Everytime I think of trying to write parody, I give it up, because I figure I could do such a wicked one of my own writing I can hardly stand the thought of doing someone else's. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215557855 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/8/2008 5:39:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com w= rites:
the Harvard Lampoon
That parody was a bit like shooting fish in = a barrel as they used to say where I came from--still funny though.
=
 
Everytime I think of trying to write parody, I = give it up, because I figure I could do such a wicked one of my own writin= g I can hardly stand the thought of doing someone else's.

=

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL = Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1215557855-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2129 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56663 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 23:13:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 23:13:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.98) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 23:13:52 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 35120 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jul 2008 23:13:52 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:13:52 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:13:52 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1491266199-1215558832=:34893" Message-ID: <416444.34893.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Funny Poem X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=Vso_saqYqDm0vZwffp6kRWPu0Qi7Mk0O6827hkqHRXI6LCCSuw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1491266199-1215558832=:34893 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know she won't pimp it so I'm gonna. This poem cracked me up and I know s= ome of you guys who have your own strong opinions about Luthien would love = it too lol http://www.openscrolls.net/fanfic/story.php?no=3D3810 ~~**~~ A= li Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when yo= u call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --0-1491266199-1215558832=:34893 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I know she won't pimp it so I'm gonna. This poem cracked me up and I know some of you guys who have your own strong opinions about Luthien would love it too lol

http://www.openscrolls.net/fanfic/story.php?no=3810

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 

--0-1491266199-1215558832=:34893-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2130 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47843 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2008 23:58:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2008 23:58:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.28) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2008 23:58:10 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 5so1243861ywh.39 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:58:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.147.1 with SMTP id u1mr5157383wad.208.1215561489358; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:58:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:58:09 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <416444.34893.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_22956_28588468.1215561489335" References: <416444.34893.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Funny Poem X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=o1sDaqf_Nt3Iv0h2dMMuIjOm0XG-5URk9q7P60UQj627muOKgGVN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_22956_28588468.1215561489335-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2131 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11287 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 00:01:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 00:01:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.153) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 00:01:00 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so1338135ywk.2 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:01:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.26.18 with SMTP id 18mr8638862waz.130.1215561659390; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:00:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:00:59 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_22966_1140839.1215561659366" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ckZBUqJwTpr6RMLGiXdCx9butXOPQ159HFL7BUh9cc9y8FbIEL4s X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_22966_1140839.1215561659366-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2132 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70151 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 00:04:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 00:04:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 00:04:03 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so1880425waf.6 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:04:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.14.1 with SMTP id r1mr8577693wai.206.1215561842605; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:04:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:04:02 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_22976_12920908.1215561842562" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] POV Again - check this one out X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8BetzrTBNhcqIDg-ID-Dm8Ot2Ti3dyNV7p4SGm6CoG2u038YQ-Fy X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_22976_12920908.1215561842562-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2133 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49517 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 00:38:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 00:38:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.214) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 00:38:13 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 00:38:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 00:38:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 00:38:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 00:38:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "spacellamaprincess" Subject: Re: Funny Poem X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=yky68z0HqhYFdH28GYz9gALvJf2PlBgI5QyOLOpQJ2hJkpPYa7vAA1w_majv X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess Am here :) (Trying to wrest the computer from a toddler, but still here, mo= re or less.) Thanks, Al, for pimping me (does that make you a pimp pimper?)= and Dawn for shouting out. Most times the tone here is very serious, so I = wasn't sure how silmparody would be received. Alas, that's mostly what I'm = good for. And the reading! Am a good reader! Yeah. :) mwahs, viv --- In S= ilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" = wrote: > > Viv, that was awesome! (I know you're here, so don't bother hid= ing. ;) > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2134 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 58542 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 01:09:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 01:09:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.124) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 01:09:42 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 01:09:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 01:09:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 01:09:42 -0000 X-Sender: eledhwen913@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93084 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 01:08:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 01:08:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 01:08:47 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 01:08:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 01:08:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 01:08:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "eledhwen913" Subject: New member, I guess... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=324963557; y=rRXlAKB9iLPEo4myA2UgjKCqA_j0BRkMHu1ZI-2uSF7Z0MZRtAI X-Yahoo-Profile: eledhwen913 X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 09 Jul 2008 01:09:41 -0000 I used to be a member of this group, but when I decided to clean out my ac= count, I foolishly wasn't paying attention and deleted my membership here.= Yes, I can be blind. My fandom name is Alquawende but just call me Alqua= because the other one is too long. I like the House of Finarfin, anythi= ng else that was created by Tolkien, history, England (It isn't because To= lkien lived there! Honestly, it isn't), politics, sleeping, complaining, r= eading, astronomy, dogs and $$. I dislike babbling, jerks on the net, Bus= h, waiting, loud music, the drought where I live, and messy places, so far= ... This is probably going to be my first and only actual bio, on the net,= that I actual go into depth about myself. wow! o_0 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2135 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64568 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 01:24:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 01:24:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.98) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 01:24:23 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 30585 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jul 2008 01:24:23 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:24:22 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 18:24:22 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2013692784-1215566662=:29169" Message-ID: <978563.29169.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New member, I guess... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=oXr88TbwuqT5Q7LhlhzoBAVxTC4vPLLXDZKNabmHhRojiTSuGA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-2013692784-1215566662=:29169 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yay Alqua found her way back. She's like Thingol - she got lost then distra= cted *hugs* ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....s= till won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ = =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Tue, 7/8/08, eledhwen913 wrot= e: From: eledhwen913 Subject: [SilmarillionWritersG= uild] New member, I guess... To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com D= ate: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 9:08 PM I used to be= a member of this group, but when I decided to clean out my account, I fo= olishly wasn't paying attention and deleted my membership here. Yes, I ca= n be blind. My fandom name is Alquawende but just call me Alqua because= the other one is too long. I like the House of Finarfin, anything el= se that was created by Tolkien, history, England (It isn't because Tolkie= n lived there! Honestly, it isn't), politics, sleeping, complaining, read= ing, astronomy, dogs and $$. I dislike babbling, jerks on the net, Bus= h, waiting, loud music, the drought where I live, and messy places, so fa= r... This is probably going to be my first and only actual bio, on the n= et, that I actual go into depth about myself. wow! o_0 = --0-2013692784-1215566662=:29169 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Yay Alqua found her way back. She's like Thingol - she got lost then distracted

*hugs*

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 7/8/08, eledhwen913 wrote:
From: eledhwen913
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New member, I guess...
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 9:08 PM

I used to be a member of this group, but when I decided to clean out my
account, I foolishly wasn't paying attention and deleted my membership
here. Yes, I can be blind.

My fandom name is Alquawende but just call me Alqua because the other
one is too long.

I like the House of Finarfin, anything else that was created by
Tolkien, history, England (It isn't because Tolkien lived there!
Honestly, it isn't), politics, sleeping, complaining, reading,
astronomy, dogs and $$.

I dislike babbling, jerks on the net, Bush, waiting, loud music, the
drought where I live, and messy places, so far...

This is probably going to be my first and only actual bio, on the net,
that I actual go into depth about myself. wow! o_0


--0-2013692784-1215566662=:29169-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2136 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 69143 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 03:28:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 03:28:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.102.100) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 03:28:42 -0000 Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n17.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 03:28:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 03:28:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 03:28:41 -0000 X-Sender: lady_rohan@msn.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63381 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 02:50:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 02:50:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc3-s15.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.215) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 02:50:15 -0000 X-Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.9.18]) by bay0-omc3-s15.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:49:40 -0700 X-Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:49:40 -0700 Message-ID: X-Received: from 209.183.32.42 by BAY119-DAV8.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:49:37 +0000 X-Originating-Email: [lady_rohan@msn.com] X-Sender: lady_rohan@msn.com To: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 21:48:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0195_01C8E144.5E591020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0039.1900 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 21:48:33 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2008 02:49:40.0413 (UTC) FILETIME=[6EF2FED0:01C8E16E] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Lady of Rohan" Subject: New Member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=261069579; y=QcyZUVXmqj9wXEsyxRqOVu1byL_-yGDYoSN7me3Ggmm9AErjNycMvzo2vOc X-Yahoo-Profile: danceswithhooves1 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: tarion_anarore via web; 09 Jul 2008 03:28:39 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0195_01C8E144.5E591020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I just joined the group today, I've been looking for a Tolkein group= with a bit more...wit...than some of the others I've seen. Judging by the= first batch of emails, any group that can use the words "silver penis" in = a sentence has got to have more than a little to spare! I'm pretty green w= hen it comes to the Silmarillion so I'll mostly just lurk and learn and try= to remember not to sip when reading emails. Lady of Rohan ------=_NextPart_000_0195_01C8E144.5E591020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = =
Hello, I just joined = the group today, I've been looking for a Tolkein group with a bit more...w= it...than some of the others I've seen.  Judging by the first batch o= f emails, any group that can use the words "silver penis" in a s= entence has got to have more than a little to spare!
 
I'm pretty green when it comes to the Silmarillion so I'll mostly ju= st lurk and learn and try to remember not to sip when reading emails.
 
Lady of Rohan
------=_NextPart_000_0195_01C8E144.5E591020-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2137 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74703 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 03:33:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 03:33:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 03:33:44 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c23.3ed67323 (32913) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 23:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 23:33:37 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215574417" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member - Lady of Rohan and Alqua X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=HynyPc2MI-JWqLWZ-n28Y9sfoQg65nFPig4_UbwmER1gSrUzeTbG X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215574417 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 10:29:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, Lady_Rohan@msn.com writes: I'm pretty green when it comes to the Silmarillion so I'll mostly just lurk and learn and try to remember not to sip when reading emails. Lady of Rohan Always thrilled to see new people! Welcome, Lady of Rohan. (Glad the discussion didn't scare you away. I have very low impulse control.) And glad to see you back, Alqua. I enjoyed your mini-bio. (And thanks for the help catching typos earlier today.) Oshun **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215574417 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/8/2008 10:29:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, Lady_Rohan@msn.com wri= tes:
I'm pretty green when it come= s to the Silmarillion so I'll mostly just lurk and learn and try to reme= mber not to sip when reading emails.
 
Lady = of Rohan
Always thrilled t= o see new people! Welcome, Lady of Rohan. (Glad the discussion didn't scar= e you away. I have very low impulse control.)
 
And glad to see you back, Alqua. I enjoyed your mini-bio. (And thanks for = the help catching typos earlier today.)
 
Oshun=



Gas prices getting you = down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
<= /HTML> -------------------------------1215574417-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2138 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11093 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 03:43:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 03:43:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 03:43:34 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 89497 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jul 2008 03:43:34 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:43:34 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:43:34 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1781701293-1215575014=:89264" Message-ID: <446780.89264.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=wR7a4pLeXovX1skZVhhijQMue3ZxuuSdME_svtRmZW8C-weZIA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1781701293-1215575014=:89264 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is this the same Lady of Rohan that is on OSA? I made an avie for that Lady= of Rohan - is that you? lol ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with = many names....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepres= entative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Lady of Rohan wrote: From: Lady of Rohan Subject: [Silmari= llionWritersGuild] New Member To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com = Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 10:48 PM Hello, = I just joined the group today, I've been looking for a Tolkein group with = a bit more...wit.. .than some of the others I've seen.=A0 Judging by the f= irst batch of emails, any group that can=A0use the words=A0"silver penis" = in a sentence has got to have more than a little to spare! =A0 I'm pretty g= reen when it comes to the Silmarillion so I'll mostly just lurk and learn = and try to remember not to sip when reading emails. =A0 Lady of Rohan = --0-1781701293-1215575014=:89264 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Is this the same Lady of Rohan that is on OSA? I made an avie for that Lady of Rohan - is that you? lol

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 7/8/08, Lady of Rohan wrote:
From: Lady of Rohan
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 10:48 PM

Hello, I just joined the group today, I've been looking for a Tolkein group with a bit more...wit.. .than some of the others I've seen.  Judging by the first batch of emails, any group that can use the words "silver penis" in a sentence has got to have more than a little to spare!
 
I'm pretty green when it comes to the Silmarillion so I'll mostly just lurk and learn and try to remember not to sip when reading emails.
 
Lady of Rohan

--0-1781701293-1215575014=:89264-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2139 Return-Path: X-Sender: eledhwen913@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83948 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 03:50:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 03:50:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.158) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 03:50:06 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 03:50:06 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 03:50:06 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 03:50:06 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 03:50:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "eledhwen913" Subject: Re: New Member - Lady of Rohan and Alqua X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=324963557; y=zyjBf2PbH4l28IEF-mdcHvzNny_Yi0aL_zlfOMZ9i_t6dNNIASw X-Yahoo-Profile: eledhwen913 > And glad to see you back, Alqua. I enjoyed your mini-bio. (And thanks fo= r > the help catching typos earlier today.) > > Oshun > I'm glad you = enjoyed the bio. It was fun reading about Beleg. I don't much about him so= you've definitely given me some new information I'd never have learned, i= f I hadn't read it. Just curious, but aren't you impatient for the month = when you get to write about Maedhros or Fingon? You write a lot about them= , so they'll be quick and easy. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2140 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93093 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 03:57:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 03:57:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 03:57:00 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c32.317efb96 (32913) for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2008 23:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 23:56:52 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215575812" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New Member - Lady of Rohan and Alqua X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=grPK4ZBD-w6XHkgeV8FQqpbRmnk7gTzAFviVlDYBnx04IJxGLuBD X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215575812 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 10:50:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, eledhwen913@yahoo.com writes: Just curious, but aren't you impatient for the month when you get to write about Maedhros or Fingon? You write a lot about them, so they'll be quick and easy. I do want to do Fingon or Maedhros someday, but quite the contrary, they will not be quick and easy, because I will want them to be beyond perfect. (Maedhros is not as high on my list, because he did get a mini-bio, along with each of his brothers, in our special project "Seven in '07" last year.) The fact that I know everything there is to know about Fingon is only half of it. It is a lot of fun actually to write about characters I know less about, because then I learn something. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215575812 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 7/8/2008 10:50:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, eledhwen913@yahoo.com writes= :
Just curious, but aren't you impatie= nt for the month when you get to
write about Maedhros or Fingon? You= write a lot about them, so they'll
be quick and easy.
I do want to do Fingon or Maedhros someday, but quite the con= trary, they will not be quick and easy, because I will want them = to be beyond perfect. (Maedhros is not as high on my list, because he did = get a mini-bio, along with each of his brothers, in our special = project "Seven in '07" last year.) The fact that I know everything there i= s to know about Fingon is only half of it.
 
I= t is a lot of fun actually to write about characters I know less about, be= cause then I learn something.



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-ef= ficient used cars.
-------------------------------1215575812-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2141 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40500 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 04:04:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 04:04:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 04:04:01 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d49.320614ea (32913) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 00:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 00:03:52 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215576232" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New Member - Lady of Rohan and Alqua X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Vr50nkIzykMyNv9urY9BG4PD9dTyWVPjUCyL6yyC3sP5x1Rijp0M X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215576232 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2008 10:57:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, heartofoshun@aol.com writes: Maedhros is not as high on my list, because he did get a mini-bio, along with each of his brothers, in our special project "Seven in '07" last year Actually, I just looked at it again and it is not-so-mini, so I doubt if I can get away with writing another Maedhros. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215576232 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/8/2008 10:57:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, heartofoshun@aol.com w= rites:
Maedhros is not as high on my list= , because he did get a mini-bio, along with each of his brothers,&n= bsp;in our special project "Seven in '07" last year
Actually, I just looked at it again and it is not-so-m= ini, so I doubt if I can get away with writing another Maedhros.



Gas prices getting you down? Sea= rch AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
-------------------------------1215576232-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2142 Return-Path: X-Sender: spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37686 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 04:32:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 04:32:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.138) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 04:32:59 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 04:32:59 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 04:32:59 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 04:32:59 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 04:32:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "spacellamaprincess" Subject: Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77451068; y=WR7JEr2w0W0EPGhVRG8p2yNC6irm6gKy8nmBWSrt4nYDOXssPtShtL03koai X-Yahoo-Profile: spacellamaprincess Er... > Gimlet son of Groin But Gimli was son of Gloin who *was* son of G= roin. No kidding. I think Tolkien just hated dwarves, 'cause, dude, that'= s not even *silver* anything. It's either a sports injury or very bad eroti= ca. (Plus, and also: the only named female dwarf? Dis.) viv From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2143 Return-Path: X-Sender: eledhwen913@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18198 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 05:38:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 05:38:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n51c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.185) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 05:38:33 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n51.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 05:38:33 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 05:38:33 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 05:38:33 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 05:38:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "eledhwen913" Subject: Re: New Member - Lady of Rohan and Alqua X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=324963557; y=Xh1Gz4A5ceMpWmFGLXiGM6J1fQO2BZ3lLEo-lLg0-WOhVgdB7JI X-Yahoo-Profile: eledhwen913 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >= > > In a message dated 7/8/2008 10:57:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, > h= eartofoshun@... writes: > > Maedhros is not as high on my list, because h= e did get a mini-bio, along > with each of his brothers, in our special = project "Seven in '07" last year > > > Actually, I just looked at it ag= ain and it is not-so-mini, so I doubt if I > can get away with writing a= nother Maedhros. > and from previous post by Oshun: > I do want to do F= ingon or Maedhros someday, but quite the contrary, they > will not be qu= ick and easy, because I will want them to be beyond perfect. > (Maedhros= is not as high on my list, because he did get a mini- bio, along with > = each of his brothers, in our special project "Seven in '07" last year.) T= he fact > that I know everything there is to know about Fingon is only ha= lf of it. > > It is a lot of fun actually to write about characters I k= now less about, > because then I learn something. Well, you still have = a chance to write one about Fingon! :D From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2144 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27726 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 05:41:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 05:41:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 05:41:27 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c3e.28b3e012 (32913) for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 01:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 01:41:07 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215582067" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New Member - Lady of Rohan and Alqua X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=4qE3M-SA8OW70sTVNQFI1yFUDM5g10zqpKXFKm-MMv8A8_DS2AEH X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215582067 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, you still have a chance to write one about Fingon! :D Yes. And I do want to write one. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------------------------1215582067 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Well, you still have a chance to write one about = Fingon! :D
Yes. And I do want to write one.



Gas prices getti= ng you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
<= /BODY> -------------------------------1215582067-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2145 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57798 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 11:24:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 11:24:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.131) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 11:24:42 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 11:24:42 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 11:24:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 11:24:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:24:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=a064gIjceT4aIKxZvyHlUGs-ICzTROTwMCEfyYVRH2k7PX29SdKDs8nl X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "spacellamaprincess" wrote: > > Er... > > > Gimlet son of Groin > > But Gi= mli was son of Gloin who *was* son of Groin. No kidding. Heh. Yep, I doub= t those too-clever-for-their-own-good Lampy guys knew that ol' JRRT beat `e= m to it. > It's... very bad erotica. Oh, dear. I fear I am guilty of u= sing aforementioned word in a moderately steamy passage. I thank you for y= et another addition to my growing list of Forbidden Words of the Tolkien Fa= n Ficcerati: lover elleth ministrations groin Now I'll have to go through= all sorts of contortions to find a substitute. Hmmmm. Perhaps "his convu= lsing corpora cavernosa." Add a couple of diacritics and it could be Queny= a. Yeah. Corpora cavernosa. That's the ticket! If you think I'm cranky a= bout this, ask me about "meme." > (Plus, and also: the only named female d= warf? Dis.) > Shameful to think he ignored her sisters, Dat and Dother. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2146 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51615 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 12:25:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 12:25:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.91) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 12:25:58 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 9521 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jul 2008 12:25:57 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Jul 2008 05:25:57 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 05:25:57 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-783240418-1215606357=:96900" Message-ID: <672010.96900.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=cuBOUPRm4x_YGu7X7gGnZUZ0Qy2Cv2LSMlQ_zJzV5mTGLW5lNQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-783240418-1215606357=:96900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: pandemonium_213 docbushwell@gmail.com =A0 > (Plus, and also: the onl= y named female dwarf? Dis.) > Shameful to think he ignored her sisters, D= at and Dother. LMFAO! ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many n= ames....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentativ= e.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Wed, 7/9/08, pandemonium_213 wrote: From: pandemonium_213 Subject: [Silmar= illionWritersGuild] Re: Tolkien's names... To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yah= oogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 7:24 AM --- In Silmarilli= onWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, "spacellamaprincess " wrote: > > Er... > > > Gimlet son of Groin > > But Gimli was son o= f Gloin who *was* son of Groin. No kidding. Heh. Yep, I doubt those too-c= lever-for- their-own- good Lampy guys knew that ol' JRRT beat `em to it. = > It's... very bad erotica. Oh, dear. I fear I am guilty of using aforemen= tioned word in a moderately steamy passage. I thank you for yet another add= ition to my growing list of Forbidden Words of the Tolkien Fan Ficcerati: = lover elleth ministrations groin Now I'll have to go through all sorts of = contortions to find a substitute. Hmmmm. Perhaps "his convulsing corpora ca= vernosa." Add a couple of diacritics and it could be Quenya. Yeah. Corpora = cavernosa. That's the ticket! If you think I'm cranky about this, ask me a= bout "meme." > (Plus, and also: the only named female dwarf? Dis.) > Sha= meful to think he ignored her sisters, Dat and Dother. = --0-783240418-1215606357=:96900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

From: pandemonium_213 docbushwell@gmail.com

 


> (Plus, and also: the only named female dwarf? Dis.)
>

Shameful to think he ignored her sisters, Dat and Dother.

LMFAO!

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Wed, 7/9/08, pandemonium_213 wrote:
From: pandemonium_213
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Tolkien's names...
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 7:24 AM

--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, "spacellamaprincess "
wrote:
>
> Er...
>
> > Gimlet son of Groin
>
> But Gimli was son of Gloin who *was* son of Groin. No kidding.

Heh. Yep, I doubt those too-clever-for- their-own- good Lampy guys knew
that ol' JRRT beat `em to it.

> It's... very bad erotica.

Oh, dear. I fear I am guilty of using aforementioned word in a
moderately steamy passage. I thank you for yet another addition to my
growing list of Forbidden Words of the Tolkien Fan Ficcerati:

lover
elleth
ministrations
groin

Now I'll have to go through all sorts of contortions to find a
substitute. Hmmmm. Perhaps "his convulsing corpora cavernosa." Add
a couple of diacritics and it could be Quenya. Yeah. Corpora
cavernosa. That's the ticket!

If you think I'm cranky about this, ask me about "meme."

> (Plus, and also: the only named female dwarf? Dis.)
>

Shameful to think he ignored her sisters, Dat and Dother.


--0-783240418-1215606357=:96900-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2147 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 84412 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 13:30:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 13:30:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.189) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 13:30:59 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n35.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 13:30:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 13:30:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 13:30:57 -0000 X-Sender: lady_rohan@msn.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60486 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 12:41:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 12:41:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s14.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.150) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 12:41:57 -0000 X-Received: from BAY119-W33 ([207.46.9.68]) by bay0-omc2-s14.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 9 Jul 2008 05:41:57 -0700 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_d70242ef-87bf-4148-8965-3b3a82b6cf8b_" To: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 07:41:56 -0500 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2008 12:41:57.0114 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C793DA0:01C8E1C1] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Lady of Rohan Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=261069579; y=VyzVikOsqi6odnsaq-QB4AL_PzVkQOKxWfRVcQ-4EHcXrEXYVKZOHf0H1To X-Yahoo-Profile: danceswithhooves1 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 09 Jul 2008 13:30:54 -0000 --_d70242ef-87bf-4148-8965-3b3a82b6cf8b_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep, that's me! The proverbial bad penny. I'm touched that you remember = me! *sniffs* I still have that avie, ...partly because I'm not bright eno= ugh to make my own, but mostly because it just makes me laugh. Rather evill= y, too. Thanks for the welcome. LoR To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yaho= ogroups.comFrom: alassante7@yahoo.comDate: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:43:34 -0700Su= bject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member Is this the same L= ady of Rohan that is on OSA? I made an avie for that Lady of Rohan - is tha= t you? lol ~~**~~Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still= won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --= - On Tue, 7/8/08, Lady of Rohan wrote: From: Lady of R= ohan Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New MemberTo: = SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.comDate: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 10:48 = PM Hello, I just joined the group today, I've been looking for a Tolkein= group with a bit more...wit.. .than some of the others I've seen. Judging= by the first batch of emails, any group that can use the words "silver pen= is" in a sentence has got to have more than a little to spare! I'm pretty= green when it comes to the Silmarillion so I'll mostly just lurk and learn= and try to remember not to sip when reading emails. Lady of Rohan --_d70242ef-87bf-4148-8965-3b3a82b6cf8b_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep, that's me!  The proverbial bad penny.  I'm touch= ed that you remember me!  *sniffs*  I still have that avie, ...pa= rtly because I'm not bright enough to make my own, but mostly because it ju= st makes me laugh. Rather evilly, too.  Thanks for the welcome.
&n= bsp;
LoR



To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup= s.com
From: alassante7@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:43:34 -0700=
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member


Is this the same Lady of= Rohan that is on OSA? I made an avie for that Lady of Rohan - is that you?= lol

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye <= /SPAN>
A Kat with= many names....still won't come when you call her
=  
 
 


--- On Tue, 7/8= /08, Lady of Rohan com> wrote:
From: Lady of Rohan com>
Subject: [= SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member
To: SilmarillionWritersGu= ild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 10:48 PM

<= DIV id=3DEC_yiv621373944>


Hello, I jus= t joined the group today, I've been looking for a Tolkein group with a bit = more...wit.. .than some of the others I've seen.  Judging by the first= batch of emails, any group that can use the words "silver penis"= in a sentence has got to have more than a little to spare!
&nbs= p;
I'm pretty green when it comes to the Silmarillion so I'll mo= stly just lurk and learn and try to remember not to sip when reading emails= .
 
Lady of Rohan
=

--_d70242ef-87bf-4148-8965-3b3a82b6cf8b_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2148 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 52014 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 13:31:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 13:31:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.129) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 13:31:12 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n35.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 13:31:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 13:31:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2008 13:31:12 -0000 X-Sender: lady_rohan@msn.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46373 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2008 12:44:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2008 12:44:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s30.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.166) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2008 12:44:27 -0000 X-Received: from BAY119-W51 ([207.46.9.86]) by bay0-omc2-s30.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 9 Jul 2008 05:44:27 -0700 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_5e01b795-7176-4ee1-8384-fa7aee6cd8a4_" To: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 07:44:27 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2008 12:44:27.0243 (UTC) FILETIME=[85F51BB0:01C8E1C1] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Lady of Rohan Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member - Lady of Rohan and Alqua X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=261069579; y=yUm3SgCB8bYY_cg-ApFwOhABgpn6IvpgWwJmWMGt1qwAUOc6g9qB0b4LS1Q X-Yahoo-Profile: danceswithhooves1 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 09 Jul 2008 13:31:08 -0000 --_5e01b795-7176-4ee1-8384-fa7aee6cd8a4_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't frighten easily. You are more likely to have to swat me on the no= se for bad behavior than vice verse. Thanks for the welcome. LoR = In a message dated 7/8/2008 10:29:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, Lady_Rohan= @msn.com writes: I'm pretty green when it comes to the Silmarillion so I'l= l mostly just lurk and learn and try to remember not to sip when reading em= ails. Lady of Rohan Always thrilled to see new people! Welcome, Lady of = Rohan. (Glad the discussion didn't scare you away. I have very low impulse = control.) And glad to see you back, Alqua. I enjoyed your mini-bio. (And= thanks for the help catching typos earlier today.) Oshun Gas prices ge= tting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. --_5e01b795-7176-4ee1-8384-fa7aee6cd8a4_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't frighten easily.  You are more likely to have to s= wat me on the nose for bad behavior than vice verse.
 
Thanks = for the welcome.
 
LoR



In a message dat= ed 7/8/2008 10:29:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, Lady_Rohan@msn.com writ= es:
I'm pretty green when it comes to the Silmarillion so I'll mostly just lu= rk and learn and try to remember not to sip when reading emails.
 
Lady of Rohan
Always thrilled to see new people! Welcome, Lady of Rohan. (Glad the= discussion didn't scare you away. I have very low impulse control.)
=
 
And glad to see you back, Alqua. I enjoyed your min= i-bio. (And thanks for the help catching typos earlier today.)
&= nbsp;
Oshun



Gas prices getting you down? Sear= ch AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.


=
I do solemnly swear t= o play nice in the Silmarillion sandbox by using the sand only to:
<= DIV> 
Cover my tracks.
 
Cover m= y sh**.  (Which will of course be OUTSIDE the sandbox...ew!)
 
Cover the bodies of the folks that pi** me off.
=
 
Cover up the fact that I've read the Sil, but remain= clueless in this company and really have nothing to say.
 = ;
But never to throw at anyone else.
 
Thanks much for all the welcomes.
 
LoR
=
 
p.s.  So who's going to write the first Telepor= no story?  Hmm?  Gotta be a "Silver Penis" lover in the bunch! ------=_NextPart_000_01E0_01C8E2CF.27D50A40-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2162 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8127 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 01:59:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 01:59:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 01:59:52 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 55835 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jul 2008 01:59:52 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:59:51 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:59:51 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1454621644-1215741591=:55716" Message-ID: <251026.55716.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] My Solemn Oath to the Sandbox X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=HjK2hdSjnMnWgfEJ9off4kp9hqPltJSqutQf2UYdqY_Ux58ABQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1454621644-1215741591=:55716 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are a lot of penis lovers in the bunch I'm sure =3D0) Silver, gold, w= hite, need I go on? ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many name= s....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.= com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Thu, 7/10/08, Lady of Rohan wrote: From: Lady of Rohan Subject: [SilmarillionWri= tersGuild] My Solemn Oath to the Sandbox To: "silmarillionwritersguild" Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 9:54= PM I do solemnly swear to play nice in the S= ilmarillion sandbox by using the sand only to: =A0 Cover my tracks. =A0 Co= ver my sh**.=A0 (Which will of course be OUTSIDE the sandbox...ew! ) =A0 C= over the bodies of the folks that pi** me off. =A0 Cover up the fact that I= 've read the Sil, but remain clueless in this company and really have noth= ing to say. =A0 But never to throw at anyone else. =A0 Thanks much for all = the welcomes. =A0 LoR =A0 p.s.=A0 So who's going to write the first Telepor= no story?=A0 Hmm?=A0 Gotta be a "Silver Penis" lover in the bunch! = --0-1454621644-1215741591=:55716 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
There are a lot of penis lovers in the bunch I'm sure =0) Silver, gold, white, need I go on?

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Thu, 7/10/08, Lady of Rohan wrote:
From: Lady of Rohan
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] My Solemn Oath to the Sandbox
To: "silmarillionwritersguild"
Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 9:54 PM

I do solemnly swear to play nice in the Silmarillion sandbox by using the sand only to:
 
Cover my tracks.
 
Cover my sh**.  (Which will of course be OUTSIDE the sandbox...ew! )
 
Cover the bodies of the folks that pi** me off.
 
Cover up the fact that I've read the Sil, but remain clueless in this company and really have nothing to say.
 
But never to throw at anyone else.
 
Thanks much for all the welcomes.
 
LoR
 
p.s.  So who's going to write the first Teleporno story?  Hmm?  Gotta be a "Silver Penis" lover in the bunch!

--0-1454621644-1215741591=:55716-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2163 Return-Path: X-Sender: lady_rohan@msn.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83001 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 02:00:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 02:00:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s10.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.146) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 02:00:48 -0000 X-Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.9.17]) by bay0-omc2-s10.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:59:50 -0700 X-Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:59:50 -0700 Message-ID: X-Received: from 209.183.32.47 by BAY119-DAV7.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 01:59:49 +0000 X-Originating-Email: [lady_rohan@msn.com] X-Sender: lady_rohan@msn.com To: References: <931303.35353.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:57:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C8E2CF.9861E800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0039.1900 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:57:42 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2008 01:59:50.0298 (UTC) FILETIME=[CD8727A0:01C8E2F9] Return-Path: lady_rohan@msn.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Lady of Rohan" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=261069579; y=95mIScFTYDODvjrQXgY4mJ8Y6HtTwUNLS22AzPOMWYsewm4eX4XuQHBhCb8 X-Yahoo-Profile: danceswithhooves1 ------=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C8E2CF.9861E800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So where are you guys posting your writing these days? And BTW, I love y= our signature! LoR ----- Original Message ----- From: Alassante7 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 09,= 2008 8:36 AM Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member = YAY I wondered where you were hiding!! Glad you decided to jump into the = Silm waters. They're quite nice =3D0) ~~**~~ Ali Kat/= Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come when = you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Lady of Rohan > wrote: From: Lady = of Rohan Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGu= ild] New Member To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com = Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 8:41 AM Yep, that's me! T= he proverbial bad penny. I'm touched that you remember me! *sniffs* I st= ill have that avie, ...partly because I'm not bright enough to make my own,= but mostly because it just makes me laugh. Rather evilly, too. Thanks for= the welcome. LoR ------------------------------= ---------------------------------------- To: SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroup s.com From: alassante7@yahoo. com Dat= e: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:43:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWrite= r sGuild] New Member Is this the same Lady of Rohan that= is on OSA? I made an avie for that Lady of Rohan - is that you? lol = ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye = A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her = http://ksouza. avonrepresentati ve.com/ --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Lady of Rohan wrote: From: Lady of Rohan Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] New Membe= r To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com = Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 10:48 PM Hell= o, I just joined the group today, I've been looking for a Tolkein group wit= h a bit more...wit.. .than some of the others I've seen. Judging by the fi= rst batch of emails, any group that can use the words "silver penis" in a s= entence has got to have more than a little to spare! I'm= pretty green when it comes to the Silmarillion so I'll mostly just lurk an= d learn and try to remember not to sip when reading emails. = Lady of Rohan ------=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C8E2CF.9861E800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
So w= here are you guys posting your writing these days? 
 =
And BTW, I love your signature!
&nb= sp;
LoR
----- Original Message -----
=
From: Alassante7 =
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 8:36= AM
Subject: RE: [Silmari= llionWritersGuild] New Member

=
YAY I wondered where you were hiding!! Gla= d you decided to jump into the Silm waters. They're quite nice =3D= 0)

=
~~**~~<= /SPAN>
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when = you call her
&n= bsp;
 
=
 
=

--- On Wed, 7/9/08, Lady of Rohan <Lady_Roh= an@msn.com> wrote:
From: Lady of Rohan= com>
Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWr= itersGuild] New Member
To: silmarillionwritersguild= @yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 8:41 AM<= BR>
=

Yep, that's me!  The proverbial bad penny.  I'm touch= ed that you remember me!  *sniffs*  I still have that = avie, ...partly because I'm not bright enough to make my own, bu= t mostly because it just makes me laugh. Rather evilly, too.&nbs= p; Thanks for the welcome.
 
LoR


=


To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com
From= : alassante7@yahoo. com
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:43:34 = -0700
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] New Membe= r


=
Is this the same Lady of Rohan that is on OSA? I = made an avie for that Lady of Rohan - is that you? lol

=
=
~~**~~
Ali Kat/Al= assante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when= you call her
http://ksouza. avonrepresentati ve.com= /
 
 
&nb= sp;


--- On Tue, 7/8/08,= Lady of Rohan wrot= e:
From: Lady of Rohan
Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] New = Member
To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup = s.com
Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 10:48 PM

=


Hello, I just joined the= group today, I've been looking for a Tolkein group with= a bit more...wit.. .than some of the others I've seen.&= nbsp; Judging by the first batch of emails, any group th= at can use the words "silver penis" in a sente= nce has got to have more than a little to spare!
 
I'm pretty green when it comes to th= e Silmarillion so I'll mostly just lurk and learn and tr= y to remember not to sip when reading emails.
=
 
Lady of R= ohan


------=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C8E2CF.9861E800-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2164 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97227 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 02:50:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 02:50:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 02:50:48 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cd4.31a50f94 (39953) for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:50:42 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215744642" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Tue0sbhWOE0najxgehsOQw91gsL2kd7GdREuZWS68to5PNcuvU4S X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215744642 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So where are you guys posting your writing these days? Most of the people on this thread post at the SWG archive: _http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/_ (http://ww w.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/) Check it out. Oshun And BTW, I love your signature! **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) -------------------------------1215744642 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
So where are you guys posting your writing these days? 
 
Most of the people on this thread post at the SWG archive: http://www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org/archive/home/
 
Check it out.
 
Oshun
 
And BTW, I love= your signature!
 



Get the scoop on= last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check o= ut TourTracker.com!
-------------------------------1215744642-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2165 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60032 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 03:14:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 03:14:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 03:14:35 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 86552 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jul 2008 03:14:34 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:14:34 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:14:34 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-658058580-1215746074=:86476" Message-ID: <807013.86476.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=5Vg9VBqhTvIWGRmMhNzW6mfvNS0xNwyd0ZXJAe_hSMx4gYfNxA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-658058580-1215746074=:86476 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh thanks! =3D0) I post on OSA still (new address is http://www.openscrolls= .net for everything), SWG's archive for Silm fics and a bunch of others. ~= ~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't come = when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0 -= -- On Thu, 7/10/08, Lady of Rohan wrote: From: Lady of= Rohan Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Mem= ber To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 10, 2= 008, 9:57 PM So where are you guys posting y= our writing these days?=A0 =A0 And BTW, I love your signature! =A0 LoR = ----- Original Message ----- From: Alassante7 To: SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroup s.com Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 8:36 AM S= ubject: RE: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] New Member = YAY I wondered where you were hiding!! Glad you decided to= jump into the Silm waters. They're quite nice =3D0) = ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with = many names....still won't come when you call her http= ://ksouza. avonrepresentati ve.com/ =A0 =A0 = =A0 --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Lady of Rohan = wrote: From: Lady of Rohan Su= bject: RE: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] New Member To: = silmarillionwriters guild@yahoogroup s.com Date: Wednesday, Jul= y 9, 2008, 8:41 AM Yep, that's me!=A0 The= proverbial bad penny.=A0 I'm touched that you remember me!=A0 *= sniffs*=A0 I still have that avie, ...partly because I'm not bri= ght enough to make my own, but mostly because it just makes me l= augh. Rather evilly, too.=A0 Thanks for the welcome. =A0 LoR = To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com From: = alassante7@yahoo. com Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:43:34 = -0700 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] New Member = = Is this the same Lady of Rohan that is on OSA? I mad= e an avie for that Lady of Rohan - is that you? lol = ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassant= e/Kathye A Kat with = many names....still won't come when you call her = http://ksouza. avonrepresentati ve.com/ = =A0 =A0 =A0 --- = On Tue, 7/8/08, Lady of Rohan wrote: From: Lady of Rohan Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] New = Member To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com Da= te: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 10:48 PM = Hello, I just joined the group today= , I've been looking for a Tolkein group with a bit more.= ..wit.. .than some of the others I've seen.=A0 Judging b= y the first batch of emails, any group that can=A0use th= e words=A0"silver penis" in a sentence has got to have m= ore than a little to spare! =A0 I'm pre= tty green when it comes to the Silmarillion so I'll most= ly just lurk and learn and try to remember not to sip wh= en reading emails. =A0 Lady of = Rohan --0-658058580-1215746074=:86476 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Oh thanks! =0) I post on OSA still (new address is http://www.openscrolls.net for everything), SWG's archive for Silm fics and a bunch of others.

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Thu, 7/10/08, Lady of Rohan wrote:
From: Lady of Rohan
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New Member
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 9:57 PM

So where are you guys posting your writing these days? 
 
And BTW, I love your signature!
 
LoR
----- Original Message -----
From: Alassante7
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 8:36 AM
Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] New Member

YAY I wondered where you were hiding!! Glad you decided to jump into the Silm waters. They're quite nice =0)

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Wed, 7/9/08, Lady of Rohan <Lady_Rohan@msn. com> wrote:
From: Lady of Rohan
Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] New Member
To: silmarillionwriters guild@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 8:41 AM

Yep, that's me!  The proverbial bad penny.  I'm touched that you remember me!  *sniffs*  I still have that avie, ...partly because I'm not bright enough to make my own, but mostly because it just makes me laugh. Rather evilly, too.  Thanks for the welcome.
 
LoR



To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com
From: alassante7@yahoo. com
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:43:34 -0700
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] New Member


Is this the same Lady of Rohan that is on OSA? I made an avie for that Lady of Rohan - is that you? lol

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 7/8/08, Lady of Rohan wrote:
From: Lady of Rohan
Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] New Member
To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 10:48 PM


Hello, I just joined the group today, I've been looking for a Tolkein group with a bit more...wit.. .than some of the others I've seen.  Judging by the first batch of emails, any group that can use the words "silver penis" in a sentence has got to have more than a little to spare!
 
I'm pretty green when it comes to the Silmarillion so I'll mostly just lurk and learn and try to remember not to sip when reading emails.
 
Lady of Rohan



--0-658058580-1215746074=:86476-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2166 Return-Path: X-Sender: lady_rohan@msn.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84295 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 17:45:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 17:45:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s5.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.141) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 17:45:12 -0000 X-Received: from BAY119-W14 ([207.46.9.49]) by bay0-omc2-s5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:45:11 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: lady_rohan@msn.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_35a5bbfa-1da5-4bd8-a39c-e2127bf2b6b4_" To: Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:45:11 -0500 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2008 17:45:11.0699 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE1E1630:01C8E37D] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Lady of Rohan Subject: SWG website X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=261069579; y=AQL3jihee68vY1ZzwDEQtR94Sg98VyOgJQHTqQ0tUB7rxS2azWp7A0KomO0 X-Yahoo-Profile: danceswithhooves1 --_35a5bbfa-1da5-4bd8-a39c-e2127bf2b6b4_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I got a chance to check out the website over lunch today, and all I have t= o say is ~WOW~ What a gorgeous site, and the wealth of information is u= nbelievable! LoR --_35a5bbfa-1da5-4bd8-a39c-e2127bf2b6b4_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I got a chance to check out the website over lunch today, and a= ll I have to say is
 
~WOW~
 
What a gorgeous sit= e, and the wealth of information is unbelievable!
 
LoR
--_35a5bbfa-1da5-4bd8-a39c-e2127bf2b6b4_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2167 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79042 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 18:22:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 18:22:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n52c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.186) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 18:22:20 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n52.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2008 18:22:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2008 18:22:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2008 18:22:20 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:22:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1-6353296466-8823679553=:7" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: New Member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=ElWpk76tCtDbaCW1TMaD1YAdPgUVUSA5PgLpfpWGKFezhFwt9g X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala --1-6353296466-8823679553=:7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Most of the people on this thread post at the SWG archive: > _http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/_ (http://ww > w.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/archive/home/) Just out of curiosity, who here actually stil= l posts Silm fics on FF.N? Because I do, but often when I go there, I find= myself wondering "why do I bother?" ...so I'd just be interested. --1-6353296466-8823679553=:7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Most of the people on this thread post at the SWG archive:
>= ; _http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/_ (http://ww
>= ; w.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/)

Just out of cur= iosity, who here actually still posts Silm fics on FF.N?  Because I do= , but often when I go there, I find myself wondering "why do I bother?" ...= so I'd just be interested.
--1-6353296466-8823679553=:7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2168 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13826 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 18:33:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 18:33:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 18:33:42 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cce.340e9515 (42805) for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:33:38 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215801218" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New Member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=B03al27o_XIVCduCy5i4reJs0heyY6TpbyFLmqdecGR4-6Qjjstc X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215801218 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/11/2008 1:22:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com writes: Just out of curiosity, who here actually still posts Silm fics on FF.N? Because I do, but often when I go there, I find myself wondering "why do I bother?" ...so I'd just be interested. I do still post some of my Silmarillion stories on ff net, but only short stories and none of my slash stuff (because there are flamers at ff net who have particularly targeted Silm fic for really viscous flaming and attacks in their forums there). The only reason I bother, is because I have one LOTR novel there that has multiple tens of thousands of page clicks and I always figure it might draw someone who otherwise wouldn't read Silm fics to look at my stories there. I get very few pages clicks or reviews on my Silm fics at ff net (I get many times more pages clicks and reveiws on the SWG, although the SWG is so much smaller). Oshun **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) -------------------------------1215801218 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/11/2008 1:22:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, ladyeriala@yahoo.com w= rites:
Just out of curiosity, who here = actually still posts Silm fics on FF.N?  Because I do, but often wh= en I go there, I find myself wondering "why do I bother?" ...so I'd just= be interested.
I do still p= ost some of my Silmarillion stories on ff net, but only short stories and = none of my slash stuff (because there are flamers at ff net who have parti= cularly targeted Silm fic for really viscous flaming and attacks in their = forums there). The only reason I bother, is because I have one LOTR novel t= here that has multiple tens of thousands of page clicks and I always figur= e it might draw someone who otherwise wouldn't read Silm fics to look at&n= bsp;my stories there. I get very few pages clicks or reviews on my Si= lm fics at ff net (I get many times more pages clicks and reveiws on the&n= bsp;SWG, although the SWG is so much smaller).
 
Oshun



Get the scoop o= n last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check = out TourTracker.com!
-------------------------------1215801218-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2169 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79583 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 18:39:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 18:39:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 18:39:48 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 72209 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jul 2008 18:39:44 -0000 X-Received: from [12.168.124.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 11:39:44 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 11:39:44 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1768331809-1215801584=:70070" Message-ID: <566425.70070.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New Member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=S6N4LRg52-mnCztqoUpZxvRG93i_CoJuP7JrFLAJXrJreNSPFg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1768331809-1215801584=:70070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I do when I write them but I post them on SWG too so you're not missing any= thing from me lol ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many name= s....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.c= om/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Fri, 7/11/08, Feta wrote: F= rom: Feta Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Ne= w Member To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 11= , 2008, 2:22 PM > Most of the people on this thread post at the SWG a= rchive: > _http://www. silmarillionwrit ersguild. org/archive/ home/_ (htt= p://ww > w.silmarillionwrite rsguild.org/ archive/home/ ) Just out of cur= iosity, who here actually still posts Silm fics on FF.N?=A0 Because I do, b= ut often when I go there, I find myself wondering "why do I bother?" ...so = I'd just be interested. --0-1768331809-1215801584=:70070 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I do when I write them but I post them on SWG too so you're not missing anything from me lol

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Fri, 7/11/08, Feta wrote:
From: Feta
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New Member
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 2:22 PM

> Most of the people on this thread post at the SWG archive:
> _http://www. silmarillionwrit ersguild. org/archive/ home/_ (http://ww
> w.silmarillionwrite rsguild.org/ archive/home/ )

Just out of curiosity, who here actually still posts Silm fics on FF.N?  Because I do, but often when I go there, I find myself wondering "why do I bother?" ...so I'd just be interested.


--0-1768331809-1215801584=:70070-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2170 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41223 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 22:09:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 22:09:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.152) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 22:09:20 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so2592950ywk.12 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:09:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.157.3 with SMTP id f3mr5294937wae.40.1215814159496; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:09:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:09:19 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_29852_18159329.1215814159494" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] SWG website X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=NrR852JfL5bdJKUMXXH_a7nkGabnNeZPnwzRcjCnht4LbmartKPd X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_29852_18159329.1215814159494-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2171 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61004 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 22:13:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 22:13:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.174) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 22:13:03 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so3849710wfa.16 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:13:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.110.6 with SMTP id n6mr4198161wam.34.1215814382752; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:13:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:13:02 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_29893_27592764.1215814382734" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New Member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=vYbsOHELe98_rk8qWkE_wf6ZuGNzcp9o5zTzH2mZN-idH6BFODR4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_29893_27592764.1215814382734-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2172 Return-Path: X-Sender: jennycuenca@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59953 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 23:34:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 23:34:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.133) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 23:34:34 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2008 23:34:34 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2008 23:34:34 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2008 23:34:34 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:34:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Jenny" Subject: Re: New Member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=70349676; y=O-sCUWPnx5OtEgWNdnP92WgPEWj-lHJX0b-tBhbnLHXcOPGOprc X-Yahoo-Profile: jennycuenca --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Feta" w= rote: > > > Most of the people on this thread post at the SWG archive: > >= _http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/_ (http://ww > > w.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/) > > Just out of curiosity, who = here actually still posts Silm fics on FF.N? > Because I do, but often wh= en I go there, I find myself wondering "why do > I bother?" ...so I'd just= be interested. > --- > I haven't been to ff.net for a long time and I c= an't imagine wanting to post there anymore. -- whitewave From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2173 Return-Path: X-Sender: jennycuenca@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82114 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2008 23:36:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2008 23:36:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.159) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2008 23:36:41 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2008 23:36:41 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2008 23:36:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2008 23:36:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:36:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Jenny" Subject: Re: Tolkien's names... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=70349676; y=TjuJ6IZofxlHBNX2BlL4E8fVdlW9an8gBk_LPEs-rBlr32mUuDE X-Yahoo-Profile: jennycuenca --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Feta" w= rote: > > Teleporno indeed. Interesting > > fodder for my "Sindarapsida". = > > *excited* Have you started writing it yet? I think the possibilitie= s > for "Teleporno" are pretty much endless... ;) > Hi! I've started wit= h the Beleg and Elwe stuff, Teleporno will be my "masterpiece" ;^> I call= ed him "Silver Member" in my Finarfinapsida but I'll elaborate on his wond= rous name later... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2174 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34057 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 17:29:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 17:29:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.176) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 17:29:36 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so2235042pye.14 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:29:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.73.20 with SMTP id a20mr15188497wal.142.1215883774870; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:29:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:29:34 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_50125_32744247.1215883774815" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-TaVzqjTQL88SYofsGZrPeqf_6WKH3lAGwIZ3elSpaahjYSD9uQx X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_50125_32744247.1215883774815-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2175 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27933 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 19:43:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 19:43:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 19:43:41 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c1d.42d70fb4 (42805) for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:43:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:43:37 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215891817" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=YoZaadnxAKJgt1bHiRwHc0fRZlwUhTB6S5iIjsPFCBSEy0-_ZpCC X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215891817 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/12/2008 12:30:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: I know that some in our group have either expressed interest in the challenge or written femslash in the past, so I wanted to remind everyone that the date is drawing near! I have written something (don't get excited--only a drabble) and am hoping to finish a ficlet, as well. I am terrified that I will won't post them on the right day. It is kind of a random date and I am very bad at organizational details. **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) -------------------------------1215891817 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/12/2008 12:30:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.co= m writes:
I know that some in our group= have either expressed interest in the challenge or written femslash in = the past, so I wanted to remind everyone that the date is drawing near!<= BR>
I have written something (do= n't get excited--only a drabble) and am hoping to finish a ficlet, as well= . I am terrified that I will won't post them on the right day. It is kind = of a random date and I am very bad at organizational details.



Get the scoop on last night's hotte= st shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com<= /A>!
-------------------------------1215891817-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2176 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69146 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 19:46:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 19:46:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.177) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 19:46:51 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n24so2270757pyh.26 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:46:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.109.1 with SMTP id l1mr15839279wam.90.1215892010823; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:46:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:46:50 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_51668_17025297.1215892010818" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=tXEavKuBXHz7z7Kd-2Za2Mbxlmta8elo7OIUetuLSQTGQ7TzKtpf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_51668_17025297.1215892010818-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2177 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61109 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 20:11:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 20:11:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.131) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 20:11:39 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n4.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 20:11:39 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 20:11:39 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 20:11:39 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:11:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=RcsVfZp45O729oZG65yvWm27CPJ4k6XC-nTmXqMDNXwHKMWjj2KdsJc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 3:43 PM, wro= te: >> I have written something (don't get excited--only a drabble) and >>= am hoping to finish a ficlet, as well. I am terrified that I will >> won'= t post them on the right day. It is kind of a random date and I >> am very = bad at organizational details. > > I think that we can forgive you for pos= ting them a day late. ;) > Unless I can sweet-talk one of my co-mods into = posting mine for me, > then mine will be a day late because I'm on vacatio= n and without > Internet this coming weekend. Oi, I hope I can get mine d= one on time as well, but I don't think it shouldn't be a huge problem (as i= n posting late and posting it for you Dawn). :) It will be always July the = 19th somewhere that day! > (Yes, I just realized this; the calendar in my = study was still > turned to June.) That sounds too familair! :c) Rhapsod= y From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2178 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 937 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 22:34:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 22:34:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n5.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.132) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 22:34:51 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n5.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 22:34:51 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 22:34:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 22:34:51 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:34:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=lXULbCRyorEr6Kd4-I91YxDVlgvKBVl88AhZm5i-PN3AWNwc9o8Eg6IP X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Hi, eve > > To be eligible for the challenge, work mus= t be posted on the 19th, since > that's part of the point: to make a wealth= of femslash stories available > across fandom on this day. I'll likely b= e away from home on July 19 but I will have trusty iBook-Angband with me so= I should be able to post my contribution then. It's currently awaiting a g= rooming session, i.e., nit-picking, like an eager and itchy bonobo (a prima= te that loves het, slash, you name it) but it should be good to go soon. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2179 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24735 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 22:41:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 22:41:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 22:41:37 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c68.2f4e7d73 (42805) for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:41:32 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215902492" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=c-bA96OhHLGSOS128YFd87yG7xgDEK6yEPLlY4x06oRvF0ZrH2gN X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215902492 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/12/2008 5:35:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: It's currently awaiting a grooming session, i.e., nit-picking, like an eager and itchy bonobo (a primate that loves het, slash, you name it) but it should be good to go soon. I liked to post my drabble at the Lizard Council for nitpicking, but I such an outspoken drabble-hater there, that I am quite ashamed to do it. (And the last drabble I wrote I asked Darth to read and it died an instant death (that was before the Lizard Council)--he wanted it to say something! The unmitigated nerve!) My ficlet is not done yet and, although somewhat more to write, I've got the unfortunate swap fic to write this week as well. **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) -------------------------------1215902492 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/12/2008 5:35:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com = writes:
It's currently awaiting a groom= ing session, i.e., nit-picking,
like an eager and itchy bonobo (a pri= mate that loves het, slash, you
name it) but it should be good to go = soon.
I liked to post my dra= bble at the Lizard Council for nitpicking, but I such an outspoken dr= abble-hater there, that I am quite ashamed to do it. (And the last dr= abble I wrote I asked Darth to read and it died an instant death (that was= before the Lizard Council)--he wanted it to say something! The unmitigate= d nerve!) My ficlet is not done yet and, although somewhat more = to write, I've got the unfortunate swap fic to write this week as= well.



-------------------------------1215902492-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2180 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85294 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 22:44:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 22:44:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 22:44:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 22:44:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 22:44:19 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:44:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=AdG9Kse5T539pbVBV6WXW8GG6pN2OsdrJ445jNLoMYsmaxI X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 My chance of being able to provide anything (femslash or otherwise) is van= ishingly small... but I'll groom (errr... I mean 'review') like crazy! O= hhhh - *crunches a particularly tasty louse*... (Ooops, my primate instinc= ts getting the better of me there!) Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuil= d@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > I'll li= kely be away from home on July 19 but I will have trusty > iBook-Angband wi= th me so I should be able to post my contribution > then. It's currently aw= aiting a grooming session, i.e., nit-picking, > like an eager and itchy bon= obo (a primate that loves het, slash, you > name it) but it should be good = to go soon. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2181 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76135 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 22:49:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 22:49:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.114) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 22:49:12 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 22:49:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 22:49:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 22:49:12 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:49:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=wovhT3qdgHlLJuQ9MxZR_tnuBHOtU2R9Z-qegPI0OCyB8XAofA4ejBbP X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 > > > I liked to post my drabble at the Lizard Council for nitpicking, b= ut I such > an outspoken drabble-hater there, that I am quite ashamed to = do it. (And the > last drabble I wrote I asked Darth to read and it died = an instant death (that > was before the Lizard Council)--he wanted it to = say something! The > unmitigated nerve!) There is no shame at the Lizard= Council. ;^) >My ficlet is not done yet and, although somewhat more to= write, > I've got the unfortunate swap fic to write this week as well. = I have never participated in a swap fic thing. Do you throw figurative ca= r keys into a hat and then see who gets who? ;^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2182 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20485 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 22:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 22:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.59) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 22:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 22:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2008 22:51:20 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:51:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=QcJUxmrwKASizr2QogjzNgP_A_utuYvxUaqPXFOzYeyDMyASybbupQ3B X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wro= te: > Ohhhh - *crunches a particularly tasty louse*... (Ooops, my primate = > instincts getting the better of me there!) > This deserves a raucous p= ant-hoot of appreciation! :^D From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2183 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27105 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 22:59:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 22:59:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 22:59:36 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c9c.28f7a8de (42805) for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:59:31 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215903571" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=3htAkG3kohy8LwL9P55PHAgrhWWcqtv5BNliGkwJT2IZADzZHrhr X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215903571 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have never participated in a swap fic thing. Do you throw figurative car keys into a hat and then see who gets who? ;^) It feels exactly like that to me. This may be my last. One is permitted to state preferences: like Silm vs. LOTR, lst Age vs. Third Age, prefer Men over Elves, etc., and list elements one will not write. People like them, I think, because they like the kick in the butt and the required content with a deadline (none of those are things I need or want, I have a long list of planned work already, that I struggle to find time for, and deadlines are not my friend in general). IgnobleBard always tells me--stretch yourself. I went to school and fulfilled required assignments for way too many years already to want to do that now. **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) -------------------------------1215903571 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
I have never participated in a swap fic thi= ng. Do you throw
figurative car keys into a hat and then see who gets= who? ;^)
It feels exactly l= ike that to me. This may be my last. One is permitted to state preferences= : like Silm vs. LOTR, lst Age vs. Third Age, prefer Men over Elves, e= tc., and list elements one will not  write. People like them, I = think, because they like the kick in the butt and the required conten= t with a deadline (none of those are things I need or want, I have a long = list of planned work already, that I struggle to find time for, = and deadlines are not my friend in general). IgnobleBard always tells me--= stretch yourself. I went to school and fulfilled required assignments for = way too many years already to want to do that now.


Get the scoop on last night's hottest show= s and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
-------------------------------1215903571-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2184 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49312 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 23:06:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 23:06:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.237) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 23:06:45 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f6so4925517rvb.5 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:06:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.241.15 with SMTP id o15mr15855519wah.96.1215904005117; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:06:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:06:45 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_52700_32552066.1215904005102" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=iEA-Iy1Vvypqa7FupjvO05HuIHsy1XHHXUKH-VBHH_324jfOLole X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_52700_32552066.1215904005102-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2185 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34614 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2008 23:37:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2008 23:37:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2008 23:37:46 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cd3.39513847 (42805) for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:37:40 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1215905860" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5044 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=e3B41B0Rj8-GIr3ryMnX49uAUZapLsaMRXbjdH5BA7Cs64oFyk7k X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1215905860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/12/2008 6:07:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: Or I like something like the HASA Birthday Cards, where people make requests and you choose which to write. But, of course, inspiration works differently for everyone, and I know plenty of people who have told me that my preferred ways of jumpstarting myself would never in a thousand years work for them. I am often attracted to challenges, because there is a bit more leeway. Also gift fics are enhanced by one's knowlege of the recipient. But writing to a series of explicit, often incredibly detailed instructions from an anonymous writer are less appealing to me. This time I am writing about characters I would never have chosen (although in the broadest sense the scenario fits what I expressed I was willing to write). I have no idea, if the person will like my style, perspective, or slant on canon. It makes me very nervous. **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) -------------------------------1215905860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/12/2008 6:07:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:
Get the scoop on last night's hottest show= s and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
-------------------------------1215905860-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2186 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22458 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2008 01:52:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2008 01:52:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.181) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2008 01:52:18 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k22so2488211waf.20 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:52:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.73.14 with SMTP id v14mr8973899waa.163.1215913938658; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:52:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 21:52:18 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_53087_1639600.1215913938644" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Femslash Day Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0PMm0fJ7SsPl6aH82QXl3rcyg2wanRUMqLupdHWn6awe43VGxeeF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_53087_1639600.1215913938644-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2187 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12559 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2008 05:00:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2008 05:00:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.251) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2008 05:00:39 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so5799288rvf.52 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:00:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.250.14 with SMTP id x14mr7114470rvh.79.1216098038913; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:00:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.248.6 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <511ea890807142200n600e0a61lc059ec662d79adde@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:00:38 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, littlebalrog@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, HaldirLovers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: Lost (PG) Ecthelion, Egalmoth, Glorfindel (complete) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=kWSQZC3uMxN0kOv1TrFgaJKi5CW875D1zIwjW0d11-UYrJn8x8g X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex Title: Lost Author: Zhie :: zhiester@gmail.com Beta: Nuinzilien Rating: PG = Challenge: LOTR Community Gen Fic Challenge: Summertime Element: "Do you ha= ve any idea of where we are?" Author's Notes: Stand alone; Bunniverse compa= tible Summary: Three elf lords of Gondolin debate whether or not they have = lost someone, and if they are lost themselves. First age. Ecthelion, Glor= findel, & Egalmoth. Word Count: 1755 Archive: http://phoenix.zhie.us "Do= you have any idea of where we are?" It was quite obviously a rhetorical q= uestion, for not only had Egalmoth delivered it in such a way as not to exp= ect an answer, but he also spurred his horse forward once the question was = asked. Ecthelion shouted loudly at him anyhow. "Of course I know where we= are! What sort of captain would I be if I managed to get us lost?" He cle= ared his throat and pulled his horse back. Behind him, Glorfindel rode sil= ently and remained unbiased. Once Glorfindel caught up, Ecthelion hissed t= o him, "Do you have any idea where we are?" "You are lost," replied the bl= ond lord, neither accusing nor amused. He brought his horse to stop beside = Ecthelion's. "You should tell Egalmoth before he gets too far ahead. It w= ould be worse if we lose him as well." "We did not lose Aredhel," insisted= Ecthelion. "She wandered away from us and would not listen to reason. Th= ere was nothing we could do. Nothing." Glorfindel simply nodded. Now tha= t Egalmoth was far ahead, Ecthelion did not worry about whispering his word= s. "This is just impossible. How am I supposed to know where we are if I = cannot see the sun to find which way north is?" The slightest smile pulled= on the corners of Glorfindel's mouth. "Just as we do not need the sun to k= now it is summer, we do not need it to tell us which way we are facing. No= rth is that way." He lifted his arm and calmly pointed to his right. Ecth= elion disbelievingly narrowed his eyes. "How can you be so certain? There= is no sun, not even a glimpse of light. The stars that might guide us are= absent from the sky, or else the clouds cover them." "The mountains are t= o the north of where we are," explained Glorfindel. He pointed once in eac= h of the other three directions. "No mountains, no mountains, no mountains.= " He paused when Ecthelion gave a huffy sigh, and when he had the other lo= rd's attention again, pointed north once again. "Lots of mountains. North= is that way." "Then we are going in the wrong direction," realized Ecthel= ion. He whistled sharply, and Egalmoth slowed and turned around. "Wrong w= ay!" he bellowed. Glorfindel squinted his eyes closed and rubbed the ear t= hat had been closer to Ecthelion. Egalmoth coaxed his horse into a canter = and joined his companions. "Gondolin is still in that direction, is it not?= " "Of course it is," answered Ecthelion matter-of-factly. Glorfindel was = still trying to get his ears to stop ringing. "And we still live in Gondol= in. Correct?" "Yes, Egalmoth, but we cannot return without the princess. = Turgon will have our heads!" "I would rather take my chances with the kin= g. I am sure he knew it was a hazard to allow her to leave in the first pl= ace. We have no idea where we are, so it makes the most sense to go back t= o Gondolin to gather reinforcements before venturing any further." Ectheli= on scratched behind his ear, a sure sign to those who had played poker with= him that he was bluffing. "I know exactly where we are, and Aredhel canno= t be more than a day ahead of us. If we ride all day and night, we are sur= e to find her." "Alright." Egalmoth crossed his arms over his chest and l= ooked Ecthelion squarely in the eyes. "If Gondolin is that way and Princes= s Aredhel is that way, then just where are we?" "Uh, yes, Glorfindel and I= were just discussing that," explained Ecthelion. "We appear to be in..." = His voice trailed off as he mumbled something that sounded like 'Hithhiman= gdoldorion'. Egalmoth pulled his steed closer. "What was that?" "Obvious= ly, we are in Dor=97" The rest Ecthelion covered up with a cough. Glorfin= del, having managed to shake the ringing from his head, frowned at Ecthelio= n. "Doriath is that way," he said, pointing south. He was shot a stern lo= ok of rebuke from his fellow lord. "And just where exactly is Hithimdringd= olion?" questioned Egalmoth. "Hithhimangdoldorion?" asked Glorfindel. "I = think he made that up." Ecthelion growled under his breath. "Fine, Egalmo= th. If you are so intelligent, you tell us just where we are." "If I were= the leader of this party," said Egalmoth in reminder of Ecthelion's positi= on, "I would have made sure I knew where we were going in the first place s= o that I knew where we were later on." "So in other words, you are lost as= well," stated Ecthelion. Egalmoth shrugged. "We are all lost. You, me, = him, the princess=97" "The princess is not lost!" argued Ecthelion. "She = knows damn well where she is going, and I am sure she meant to separate her= self from us from the very... Glorfindel what are you doing?" The youngest= of the three lords was now sitting sideways on his saddle searching throug= h one of the bags on his horse. "Getting the map." "The map?" Glorfindel= brought out a rolled up piece of parchment and unfurled it. He held it up= so that both of his comrades could see it. "This is a map," he said quiet= ly with little emotion. "Has places on it. You read it, to find out where= you are. Match up landmarks to see where you are going. Mountains to the= north, forest to the south, rivers on either side. Welcome to Nan Dungort= heb." "I was wondering why King Turgon sent him with us," said Egalmoth to= Ecthelion as Glorfindel rolled the map up again. Glorfindel shook his hea= d, the first sign of frustration he had shown. "He did not send me to read= the map. He sent me along to keep the two of you from killing each other.= " "So if those are mountains, and that is a forest, and this is Nan Dungor= theb, then what are those?" asked Egalmoth, pointing toward a skittering gr= oup of creatures that were kicking up dust and dirt in their wake. "The we= lcoming committee," replied Ecthelion as he dismounted and drew Orcrist fro= m its sheath. Thankfully, the sword did not glow blue, but it did seem to = shine radiantly in the darkness anyhow, as if ready to serve its master in = slaying any foe who dared attack. Egalmoth dropped down beside him, sabre = soon in one hand and a curved knife to match in the other. "I was beginnin= g to wonder where all of the allies of the enemy were hiding." Remaining o= n horseback, Glorfindel drew his first arrow. "I count about forty of them= . Most of them are nymphs. I am going to try to pick off the imagoes if I= can." "Good plan. Egalmoth, you and I should meet them halfway to keep t= hem from reaching the horses," suggested Ecthelion. Egalmoth gave a nod, a= nd the two lords jogged toward the spider swarm. Each arrow that Glorfinde= l fired was accompanied by his personal mantra. "I hate spiders." An arro= w pierced one in the prosoma. It stumbled but kept moving. "I hate spider= s." The next shot directly into one of the spider's many eyes and it dropp= ed to the ground, convulsing. "I hate spiders." Knowing the urgency of th= e situation as the spiders plowed forward, he drew back two arrows, taking = out one of the young ones and injuring another adult. He cursed his luck a= nd dismounted, for the equines were voicing their displeasure at how close = the arachnids were getting. "Look who decided to join us!" shouted Egalmot= h as Glorfindel ran towards the beasts. Ecthelion looked briefly over his = shoulder and called out some extermination advice. "Stop slashing at their= legs, Glorfindel! Just stab them! If you have your knives, put your swor= d away first chance you get and use those instead!" Glorfindel raised his = sword and launched it like a spear into a particularly devious looking spid= er who was crawling over the others, pedipalps twitching and mouth salivati= ng. It shrieked and fell back while Glorfindel drew his shorter blades and= plunged them into the next one that leaped toward him. "I am starting to = rethink my plan!" admitted Ecthelion once he had managed to squash a spider= who had wrapped itself around his leg. "Maybe we should go back to Gondoli= n. I am sure the princess is fine!" "There are no giant spiders in Gondol= in," Glorfindel added. He tried not to shudder as he took out another one = with disgust. "Good!" Egalmoth swung his blade and sliced another beast i= n two. "We should be able to ride back quickly, gather our forces, and retu= rn with enough soldiers to make short work of any other creatures that are = lurking out here in the shadows." The final spider was taken down, and Ega= lmoth looked around with concern as Ecthelion cleaned his sword. "Glorfind= el?" The blond was carefully navigating through the carnage. As he took h= old of the hilt of his embedded sword, the legs of the spider it was lodged= in became reanimated. He leaped back, waited for the movement to cease, a= nd then quickly yanked the blade from the beast. "What?" he asked as he hu= rried back to his companions. "Where did you put the horses?" "I..." Glo= rfindel looked around. "I think they must have started home," he said as h= e noted tracks leading west. "Lovely. The princess is missing, our horses= are gone, and we are stuck lost in the middle of nowhere," complained Egal= moth. Glorfindel corrected him. "We are lost in Nan Dungortheb." "Oh, sh= ut up," mumbled Egalmoth. "You and your stupid map." For a moment, Egalmo= th brightened. "The map is with your horse. I bet you have no idea where = everything is now." Glorfindel was silent at first, but as Egalmoth began = to grin smugly, the younger elf said, "Beyond Nan Dungortheb is the river E= sgalduin, and past that, Dor Dinen, and Himlad to follow. I do not need a = map to know where the princess has gone." "That is all well," announced Ec= thelion, "but without horses to carry us she may well have gone to Nevrast.= We have little choice but to turn around and return to Gondolin." Ecthel= ion and Egalmoth started on the long return journey back to Gondolin as Glo= rfindel stood amid the dead spiders. His look of disappointment was unseen= by them as he asked, "Are we just going to give up on finding her?" "We c= ould always find a few more of these spiders and ride them to Himlad," sugg= ested Egalmoth. Glorfindel ran to catch up with the other two lords. "We = probably should return to Gondolin," he replied with a shiver. -- Tales= from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They= 're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2188 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73229 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2008 05:05:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2008 05:05:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.244) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2008 05:05:57 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id f25so5976648rvb.26 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:05:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.141.23.7 with SMTP id a7mr7139075rvj.5.1216098356655; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:05:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.248.6 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <511ea890807142205m7d680bfay9d10b0206c0f7b18@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:05:56 -0500 To: silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, littlebalrog@yahoogroups.com, erestor_lovers , HaldirLovers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: Midsummer Memories (G) Glorfindel, Erestor, Gil-Galad, Elrond (complete) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=irnpbz0WB4xNqHzwOFqDWQel0wbWzwVru0CJByDvqwuPWnEKxQk X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex Title: Midsummer Memories Author: Zhie :: zhiester@gmail.com Beta: Smaug Ra= ting: G Challenge: LOTR Community Gen Fic Challenge: Summertime Element: An= or at her noontide zenith, on the longest day of the year, beat mercilessly= down from a clear sky, not a cloud in sight, nor a hope of rain. Author's = Notes: Stand alone; Bunniverse compatible. I subscribe to the notion that F= ingon is Gil-Galad's father. Just because I do. That is all. Summary: Glo= rfindel spends his first midsummer after his rebirth in Lindon. Second age= . Glorfindel, Erestor, Elrond, Gil-Galad, and three semi-persistent ellyth= . Word Count: 2708 Archive: http://phoenix.zhie.us "There you are! The = parade is about to start and=97" Erestor backed up and turned around. He = frowned as he looked at Glorfindel. "You are not dressed yet." Glorfindel= looked down at himself. "I am dressed," he stated, which was true. Erest= or sighed and shook his head. "Yes, but you are not dressed for the festiv= al. Where are your robes?" Glorfindel slumped down further. "I left them= in Rivendell." "Are you serious?" Erestor groaned when Glorfindel nodded= . "I sure hope we can find something proper for you," said the advisor as = he wandered into one of the bedrooms. Due to the vast amount of visitors i= n Lindon, many of the guest rooms were holding double or more their normal = capacity. The suite they were in was being shared with Elrond as well, who= had left at dawn in order to help Gil-Galad with any final preparations fo= r the midsummer festival. "Why is everything in here for traveling? Did y= ou not bring anything formal to wear?" called out Erestor. "I was not plan= ning to attend the festivities." Glorfindel waited until Erestor emerged f= rom the room to further explain. "I agreed to come to Lindon and scout the= path as we traveled. I never agreed to be any sort of dignitary. That is= a position reserved for you and for Elrond." "And you," countered Erestor= . "What am I? Just an advisor." "Chief advisor," corrected Glorfindel. = "Second in command of Rivendell, and that is nothing to scoff at. I just s= hoot the bad guys that try to come into the city." "Which is not to be pla= yed down either," Erestor assured his friend. "Besides, you are=97" "Do no= t say it," warned Glorfindel. Erestor paused and studied Glorfindel. "Wha= t do you think I was going to say?" "Same damn thing everyone says." Glor= findel sat up as Erestor sat down next to him. "Be it 'balrog slayer' or '= hero of Gondolin' or whatever other nonsense, I would prefer not to hear it= . Elrond said this was a vacation. If that is true, then leave me be and = let me rest in peace." "Alright," replied Erestor. "I will not broach the= subject again." "Thank you." "Do you want to go and sit with the general= assembly? I am sure there are seats near the back." "I am just going to = stay here," said Glorfindel. Erestor nodded as he stood up. "If you chang= e your mind, I am sure there will be a place for you somewhere." Glorfinde= l sighed after Erestor left. As a second thought, he locked the door. Ere= stor would leave him alone, but it was always possible that Elrond would be= more persistent. The festival was still hours away, giving Elrond more th= an ample time to come back to the room. Glorfindel was still getting his be= arings of this new Middle-earth, and he was unaware of whether Elrond would= leave him alone or drag him out by his hair. --- Anor at her noontide ze= nith, on the longest day of the year, beat mercilessly down from a clear sk= y, not a cloud in sight, nor a hope of rain. It was a blessing to be in Li= ndon, where sea breezes brought a welcome respite from the heat. Glorfinde= l opened all of the windows of the suite in order to cool off. The beach w= as crowded, mostly with children and their nannies, or he would have consid= ered a swim. Most everyone else was in the courtyard, where the Gates of S= ummer was being celebrated. Just the thought of what day it was put Glorfi= ndel on edge. Now he lounged on the couch, a book resting open across his = chest as he stared up at the ceiling. He could hear the trumpets in the di= stance and voices raised in song. Having skipped breakfast, his stomach wa= s very interested in what was on the menu for lunch. However, it seemed he= would need to navigate his way into the kitchens or the dining hall or out= to the courtyard in order to sate his hunger. The courtyard seemed the sa= fest idea; if he needed, he could disappear into the trees or around a corn= er. All of the hallways were empty, and in the courtyard everyone was focu= sed upon the raised platform situated behind the head table. Trees encircle= d the courtyard, towering elms and oaks, and swaying willows, giving Glorfi= ndel ample cover. The music was loud, violins and flutes, that gave way to= excited drumming and percussion. It was all more than enough to aid Glorf= indel in staying unseen and unheard, and when a group of servers passed by = with trays of food and drink, he plucked a glass of wine and a meat pie wit= hout being noticed. The music increased in volume and speed, and Glorfinde= l wandered a little closer. The head table was mostly empty, save for a fe= w diplomats whose names he did not know. On the stage, performing to one s= ide, was Erestor. He soloed on his fiddle while the rest of the Lindon mus= icians on the other side accompanied. Glorfindel was astonished to see the= king among them, aiding jovially on tambourine. Another scan of the table= showed it was lacking Elrond. Glorfindel hoped his absence had not caused= Elrond to return to the suite and miss the opening of the event, but as he= considered returning to the rooms to check, Elrond leaped up onto the stag= e. In each hand he held a long sword, and he began to dance with such uner= ring precision that Glorfindel found it hard to believe him only half-elven= . The drums rumbled, and Erestor seemed to match Elrond's movements with h= is bow work. The crowd rose to their feet, some having to be persuaded by = their partners and friends, until they were all dancing in the wide aisles = between the tables. Even the servers, as they weaved in and out of the mer= riment, were light on their feet as they skipped from table to table. "Thi= s is not a midsummer festival," mumbled Glorfindel to himself. He looked a= round, seeing no stadium for the feats of strength and boxing matches. Dan= cing was something that the elflings might have done, but not the adults, w= ho would have solemnly waited for the rising of the sun to sing after a nig= ht of reflection. As Glorfindel ate, he watched Elrond finish his dance as= the song ended. Applause rang out, both Elrond and Erestor took a bow, an= d Gil-Galad snapped his fingers to count off the next song quickly before a= nyone had time to sit down again. Once more, Erestor's fiddle sang and led= the band in their playing. Elrond now joined Gil-Galad on the opposite en= d and clapped his hands in time while he and the king exchanged some words,= appearing to be teasing each other. Finally as the music took on a tempo t= oo fast for either of them to keep up, Gil-Galad relinquished his tambourin= e to one of the percussionists and jumped down from the stage with Elrond. = They seemed to size up the two ends, and with some laughter, each strolled= to one side. Each of them pulled a maiden from the crowd, and while the m= usic swelled, they started chains of elves dancing. It seemed to be a comp= etition, for each of them to get the more to join their lines. Even Erestor= seemed to be in on the contest, for he sped up and slowed down as he pleas= ed, ever keeping the dancers literally on their toes. When Elrond started s= tealing dancers from Gil-Galad's chain, and the king sent some of his group= to dance around the trees in order to avoid Elrond, Glorfindel decided it = was time to leave, lest he be caught up in the festivities. "Oh! Did you = lose your place?" Glorfindel turned to find two giggling young ellyth behi= nd him. "No, no, I am quite alright," he lied as he took a step backwards = and nearly stepped into another elleth who had now come up behind him. "Ai= !" She laughed when he turned around, startled. "Oh, I like you! Come dan= ce with me!" She reached out for his arm, but he stepped back, only then r= ecalling the two on the other side. "We found him first!" argued one of th= e pair. "Go find your brother and dance with him." The lone elleth pouted= . "There is only one of him and two of you. I should get to keep this one= ." Not about to stick around for the outcome, Glorfindel flashed the singl= e elleth a smile and handed his empty glass and plate to her. "Do you mind?= " he asked, placing them into her hands before she could answer. "Thank yo= u. Ta." He jumped straight up into the air, grabbed hold of the branch ab= ove, and used it to swing up onto another one. "Wait! Where are you going= ?!" Glorfindel did not look down to see which one was protesting. There w= ere some trees close enough to climb into, and soon he had disappeared into= them and managed to get far from the trio he was avoiding. Unfortunately,= he was now in a tree close to many of the other festival goers, and he set= tled himself comfortably in order to wait until the crowd thinned. As it t= urned out, Gil-Galad and Elrond were both accomplished singers, and for the= next few hours the crowd was entertained by those on stage and kept fed by= the constant stream of servers. As afternoon gave way to early evening, t= he tables were moved away so that couples and groups could sit on the grass= together. The music became softer and more reflective, and unexpectedly, = Glorfindel drifted into reverie. It was much later when Glorfindel awoke, = finding the courtyard mostly empty. Stars shined down from a clear sky, an= d with the sun gone there was some relief from the heat. Glorfindel slippe= d down out of the tree, stretched his limbs, and walked back to the suite. = Before he even made it to the doorway of the building, he changed his mind= . The main crowd has dispersed, but smaller groups congregated here and the= re, two in the path he would need to take. With his head bowed, Glorfindel= walked briskly through an alleyway to the beach. There were a dozen bonfi= res in the sand, but the elves on the beach were staying close to the fires= . Glorfindel walked past them, all the way to the shoreline. Water lapped= at his boots as he looked out across the sea. It had been less than a yea= r since he had taken the small boat back from the west, and he wondered som= e days if his decision had been the right one. It seemed that not a day ha= d gone by that someone hadn't made some reference to the balrog. In fact, = there was some bloody awful phrase he heard people use, 'Ai! 'Tis Glorfinde= l and the Balrog!' he had heard people shout. The only consolation seemed = to be that they mentioned him first, but he decided in short order that he = would have preferred not to have been mentioned at all. Footsteps shuffled= up behind him, and he closed his eyes and sighed. There was always one. A= lways someone so curious that they could not just leave him alone. Plaster= ing a false yet friendly smile on his face, Glorfindel turned and found the= most unlikely person standing beside him. "Your majesty," he said, bowing= his head slightly. Gil-Galad waved this off with a frown. "Just call me = Gil-Galad. Ereinion, if you prefer." "Which do you prefer?" asked Glorfind= el. "Ereinion." "Then why do most people call you Gil-Galad?" "Which sou= nds more commanding: King Ereinion or King Gil-Galad?" Glorfindel did not = ponder this long. "The second, without a doubt." For a little while they = stood silently, looking out past the docks to the west. Finally, Gil-Galad= cleared his throat and said, "I was hoping I might ask you a question." '= Here it comes,' thought Glorfindel. He slowly nodded, for there was hardly= any way he could deny the king from asking him something, and even more in= sulting to refuse to answer. "I know you had some contact with my father. = What was he like?" Glorfindel blinked. "Uh... did you not know your fath= er?" The question blindsided him. As he dug into ancient memories the tal= e of the balrog was thankfully shoved out of his mind in order to make room= for anything he could recall regarding Fingon. "I only knew him briefly. = He sent me to the Falas when I was a child, and we did not have much conta= ct even before that. I wanted to ask you about him earlier, but Erestor sa= id you were not feeling well. I am glad to see you have improved." "It wa= s the heat," apologized Glorfindel. "Ah. Yes, it tends to make things unc= omfortable, especially if you are not used to it." Gil-Galad turned over a= rock in the sand with his bare foot. "If you would rather not talk about = the past, I understand. I imagine it could bring about some unpleasant mem= ories." "I do not mind, depending on the subject. There is not much for m= e to tell you, for my contact with your father was limited. I will do my b= est to remember everything I can." They spent the next few hours walking a= long the beach, with Glorfindel reminiscing as Gil-Galad listened intently = to every word. Fires burned to ash and the beach was eventually deserted, = save for the pair strolling along the shoreline. It was only when grey ski= es heralded the dawn that Gil-Galad excused himself, leaving Glorfindel alo= ne on the beach. Glorfindel plucked a long, slender piece of driftwood fro= m a tangled patch of seaweed. He gouged it into the wet sand and dragged i= t along. The waves washed over the sand and dragged down again to cover up= his mark. Once again, he shoved the tip of the driftwood into the sand. = He hastily drew a tree, an anvil, and a swan. As these were being washed a= way, he etched a smaller bird, a mole, and a snowflake, followed by a harp,= a rainbow, a moon surrounded by stars, a pillar, and finally a fountain. = When he tried to add the sun to the end of the row, the driftwood splintere= d and cracked into three pieces. He threw the piece he still held into the= receding water as someone behind him said, "That one does not belong with = the rest." "That one still does not know where he belongs," admitted Glorf= indel as he was joined by Erestor. "Maybe that one just needs some time to= figure things out without being pressured by everyone else. Speaking of, = I am sorry I was trying to make you come to the festival yesterday. I shou= ld have known better," said Erestor. Glorfindel shrugged. "I was there, a= ctually." "Oh?" "I hid up in a tree." Erestor smiled. "Do you want to h= ave some breakfast? The hall is less crowded this early. I was on my way = there when I saw you." "Breakfast sounds wonderful." As they walked back,= Erestor said, "So, you must have seen all of us acting like fools yesterda= y." "You looked like you were having fun. Maybe next year I will have the= courage to get up there and act a fool with the rest of you. No promises,= of course," he added quickly. "No promises," Erestor parroted. "Of cours= e, that would mean getting up in front of a crowd, which I know you hate to= do." "There is that. I am a really good singer, though," Glorfindel remi= nded him. "Modest, too." Glorfindel smirked. "I just thought maybe I sho= uld. All things considered or something like that. I figure I can muster = up enough courage to get up there." Erestor nodded, and then started to gr= in. "What?" questioned Glorfindel as they approached the doors. "I was ju= st thinking... you deciding to be so 'courageous'... Ai, 'tis=97" "Do not = dare." "'Tis=97" Erestor snickered, laughing too hard to finish. "You had= best leave it there." "'Tis Glorfindel and the balrog!" Erestor laughed = so hard that he choked slightly and had to cough to clear his throat. "Ser= ves you right," scolded Glorfindel, but he was far from angry, already ment= ally preparing his repertoire for the following year. -- Tales from Val= inor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're alway= s after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2189 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34186 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2008 00:52:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2008 00:52:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.30) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2008 00:52:53 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so3597002yxj.11 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:52:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.201.1 with SMTP id y1mr1101213waf.93.1216255972617; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:52:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:52:52 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_47646_19814415.1216255972602" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Offline for the Weekend X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5-VEr22ZDC5Im-xJWBcXtNM4HogQMCBs-LilYmPjIaVfz4Iaq2-d X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_47646_19814415.1216255972602-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2190 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48434 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2008 01:27:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2008 01:27:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2008 01:27:41 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 31661 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jul 2008 01:27:41 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:27:41 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:27:41 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-921412509-1216258061=:14491" Message-ID: <257589.14491.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Offline for the Weekend X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=705862NQXYwcHn6eXAZfJOfasC5Tdz-tB_Yz6FXwl1LoVg4c8g X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-921412509-1216258061=:14491 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable if you give us your cell phone number, we'd be able to contact you in case = of emergency ;-)~ ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names= ....still won't come when you call her http://ksouza.avonrepresentative.c= om/ =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: [Silmaril= lionWritersGuild] Offline for the Weekend To: "SWG" Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 8:52 PM = Hi, everyone, Just an fyi to let you know that I will offline = until next Monday, 21 July. Normally, I do not mind taking questions or pro= blems on my private email account, but if you email me there this weekend, = no one will get it until Monday! :) So, if you have any questions or proble= ms using the site or need a moderator for any reason, please use the modera= tor email account, moderator AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org. This add= ress auto-forwards to at least one active moderator at any time and so is t= he best way to get a prompt response to your query or concern. Have a gre= at weekend and I will "see" everyone on Monday! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Fe= lagund www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org = --0-921412509-1216258061=:14491 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
if you give us your cell phone number, we'd be able to contact you in case of emergency

;-)~

~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
 
 
 


--- On Wed, 7/16/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Offline for the Weekend
To: "SWG"
Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 8:52 PM

Hi, everyone,

Just an fyi to let you know that I will offline until next Monday, 21 July. Normally, I do not mind taking questions or problems on my private email account, but if you email me there this weekend, no one will get it until Monday! :) So, if you have any questions or problems using the site or need a moderator for any reason, please use the moderator email account, moderator AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org. This address auto-forwards to at least one active moderator at any time and so is the best way to get a prompt response to your query or concern.

Have a great weekend and I will "see" everyone on Monday! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org

--0-921412509-1216258061=:14491-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2191 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47694 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2008 03:29:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2008 03:29:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.152) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2008 03:29:01 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so2468719ywk.64 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:29:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.201.1 with SMTP id y1mr1194011waf.93.1216265340882; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:29:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:29:00 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <257589.14491.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_48908_20230401.1216265340874" References: <257589.14491.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Offline for the Weekend X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=nwpVXBVU_qW5AVaftavOtbXG8U6zpnw3NrghmpnfBgQirlpzWWUl X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_48908_20230401.1216265340874-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2192 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59749 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2008 03:31:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2008 03:31:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2008 03:31:47 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d04.38a8f32b (48576) for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:32:38 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216265558" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Offline for the Weekend X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=TXXy6WP6IKOZJadSW7kn1wWPbqfH-aiBW_kgOSq_MEMSkgyr794S X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1216265558 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2008 10:29:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: There are some people in the group who have it, though hopefully they won't have to use it. ;) Hehe. I was giggling at this. My kids can barely get my cell phone number out of me! **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) -------------------------------1216265558 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 7/16/2008 10:29:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.co= m writes:
There are some people in the = group who have it, though hopefully they won't have to use it. ;)
 
 
=
Hehe. I was giggling at this.  My kids can barely get my cell ph= one number out of me!



G= et the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your= area - Check out TourTracker.com!
-------------------------------1216265558-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2193 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39397 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2008 03:33:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2008 03:33:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2008 03:33:38 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so4936613wah.4 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:33:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.108.1 with SMTP id k1mr1189513wam.109.1216265618394; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:33:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:33:38 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_48917_14548030.1216265618388" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Offline for the Weekend X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=kF6qksmN77pVkvYj8o0w8jmoNpXZXjv_8xq72R0i4w76FvNAq3qG X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_48917_14548030.1216265618388-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2194 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64198 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2008 03:39:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2008 03:39:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2008 03:39:11 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c6e.23c48734 (48576) for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:39:57 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216265997" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Offline for the Weekend X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=WRrSjMJ62074Ej9XheYg_bBaTUOQEG2Gyha5BKsSBSac31ICOixL X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1216265997 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2008 10:34:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: That's because you don't know it! :^P Ooops caught out again. You are so right! But I can look it up though. I know have it somewhere..... (Oh, I know: Pandemonum has it! She's one of those practical people.) Actually, I don't know mine either, by heart, though I do know where to find it on my phone. My husband also programmed it into my contacts list when he first bought me the phone, knowing well that I am scatterbrained and would never know it otherwise! We do have a lot in common, Dawn. **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) -------------------------------1216265997 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 7/16/2008 10:34:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writ= es:
That's because you don't know it! :^P=
Ooops caught out again. You are so right! But I = can look it up though.  I know have it somewhere..... (Oh, I know: Pa= ndemonum has it! She's one of those practical people.)
= Actually, I don't know mine either, by heart, though I do kn= ow where to find it on my phone. My husband also programmed it into my c= ontacts list when he first bought me the phone, knowing well that I am s= catterbrained and would never know it otherwise!
We do have a lot in common, Dawn.

<= /FONT> 
 



<= DIV>
Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and t= he live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! -------------------------------1216265997-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2195 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55325 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2008 06:29:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2008 06:29:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n26a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.240) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2008 06:29:12 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n26.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jul 2008 06:29:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jul 2008 06:29:12 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jul 2008 06:29:12 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 06:29:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Offline for the Weekend X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=USHPu2ZznugpV1U_NA-PiacGc_X45Xyv-t42RNTADQnWAaXAsm5MN9I X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:32 PM, wr= ote: > > Hehe. I was giggling at this. My kids can barely get my cell > > = phone number out of me! > > That's because you don't know it! :^P Actually= , I don't know mine > either, by heart, though I do know where to find it = on my phone. My > husband also programmed it into my contacts list when he= first > bought me the phone, knowing well that I am scatterbrained and wo= uld > never know it otherwise! Hehehehe, that sounds way too familair! Aft= er about three years, I finally do know the nr's in the correct order of ou= r number and off course, just around the time I need to get use to a new nu= mber. ;) Anyway: have a great time Dawn! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2196 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74367 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 05:24:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 05:24:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 05:24:56 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c3e.2a151a1e (48600) for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:24:55 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216445095" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=7qT-bb1gLPdTz_TGQSiUFXSg5S3sBek6gMYKxfXv7wLKjob18hyt X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1216445095 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone asked me this question: "Did Turgon join in with Fingon at the front of Fingolfin's host and therefore was he involved in the kinslaying at Alqualonde?" I always presumed that if he was not at the front of Fingolfin's grouping with his father and brother it would have been noted and it was not that I can find. Any opinions on the subject? **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------------------------1216445095 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Someone asked me = this question: "Did Turgon join in with Fingon at the front of Fingolfin's= host and therefore was he involved in the kinslaying at Alqualonde?"
 
I always presumed that if he was not at the front = of Fingolfin's grouping with his father and brother it would have been not= ed and it was not that I can find. Any opinions on the subject?



Get fantasy football with free liv= e scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football toda= y.
-------------------------------1216445095-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2197 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95751 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 09:41:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 09:41:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 09:41:12 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CD45801D for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:41:19 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:41:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:41:10 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1507188517.20080719114110@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=vpfO4nlfYcQJVOy1TVjo8qrj1SsTofDfNEfgQ_8ZjQvP6WPitkc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> Someone asked me this question: "Did Turgon join in with hac> Fingon at the front of Fingolfin's host and therefore was he hac> involved in the kinslaying at Alqualonde?" Only Fingon and his soldiers joined the fight. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2198 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13628 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 10:16:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 10:16:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 10:16:19 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d4d.284875da (48600) for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 06:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 06:16:19 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216462579" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=3Rqbqq1lnDL3lDCEMcfVGsAd38q3_xNEEw5A8GayLHj1tUauXylO X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1216462579 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Only Fingon and his soldiers joined the fight. Do you gave a source for that. I've can't find in anything the Silm that says that. In English at least it sounds completely vague (see quotation below). It states that Fingon was the front and went in first and those immediately behind him joined in. Nothing about that indicates it was only him. "but the vanguard of the Noldor were succoured by Fingon with the foremost of the host of Fingolfin, who coming up found a battle joined and their own kin falling, and rushed in before they knew rightly the cause of the quarrel; " Chapter 9, "The Flight of the Noldor. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------------------------1216462579 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Only Fingon and his soldiers joined the fight.
Do you gave a source for that. I'= ve can't find in anything the Silm that says that. In English at= least it sounds completely vague (see quotation below). It states th= at Fingon was the front and went in first and those immediately behind him= joined in. Nothing about that indicates it was only him.
&nbs= p;
"but the vanguard of the Noldor were succoured by Fingon with the = foremost of the host of Fingolfin, who coming up found a battle joined and = their own kin falling, and rushed in before they knew rightly the cause of= the quarrel; " Chapter 9, "The Flight of the Noldor.
=


Get fantasy football with fre= e live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football= today.
-------------------------------1216462579-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2199 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81667 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 10:59:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 10:59:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 10:59:59 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85CA10400E for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:59:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:59:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:00:00 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <523226613.20080719130000@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=_Xc0TKdb4_AMV-pGrgUv4ignG3vnOsmws0R8CfXeb14x3W2xlys X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> Do you gave a source for that. I've�can't find in anything hac> the Silm that says that.�In English at least it hac> sounds�completely vague (see quotation below). It states that hac> Fingon was the front and went in first and those immediately hac> behind him joined in. Nothing about that indicates it was only hac> him. No quotation, my interpretation only. I'm in hurry, sorry for confusion. I just believe that if anyone else joined they would be mentioned. We know that they were walking slowly etc., only Fingon rushed forwards. There are no data to count anyone except the Valiant into the kinslaying. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2200 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96750 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 11:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 11:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m19.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.11) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 11:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c2e.38e14384 (48600) for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 07:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 07:02:44 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216465364" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Pfzk-puyhKBAz0MN_8fqgIp4wrLNwrPwq_WJZXShWS3lENwK_FcQ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1216465364 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2008 6:00:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: I just believe that if anyone else joined they would be mentioned. We know that they were walking slowly etc., only Fingon rushed forwards. There are no data to count anyone except the Valiant into the kinslaying. Thanks! I appreciate it very much. I, only the other hand, had wondered where Turgon was if not near the front with Fingon, and Fingolfin also... for that matter. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------------------------1216465364 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 7/19/2008 6:00:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes:
I just believe that if anyone else joined th= ey would be
mentioned. We know that they were walking slowly etc., on= ly Fingon
rushed forwards. There are no data to count anyone except t= he
Valiant into the kinslaying.
Thanks! I appr= eciate it very much. I, only the other hand, had wondered where Turgon was= if not near the front with Fingon, and Fingolfin also... for that matter.=

 
 



Get fan= tasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for Fan= House Fantasy Football today.
-------------------------------1216465364-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2201 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5537 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 11:32:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 11:32:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 11:32:02 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACFC9104005 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:32:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:32:00 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:32:02 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1891705357.20080719133202@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=MEOouN4bL5aFhnODJ9VaxClqauzTObrhyysP7g5jWr94ztQT2mw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> Thanks! I appreciate it very much. I, only the other hand, hac> had wondered where Turgon was if not near the front with Fingon, hac> and Fingolfin also... for that matter. In the end of Fingolfin's host, checking if Finrod is following and busy with taking care of Elenw� and Idril. Just ideas ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2202 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2797 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 11:34:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 11:34:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 11:34:38 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.d1d.2c39998e (48600) for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 07:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 07:34:34 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216467274" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=nK0EkU-Qx-PRbRCNA7F7m9pVFSaPHdXt1r5GrAIN8bLCpJjWeGu5 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1216467274 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/19/2008 6:32:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@t= len.pl writes: In the end of Fingolfin's host, checking if Finrod is foll= owing and busy with taking care of Elenw=EB and Idril. Just ideas ;) Looki= ng after the slackers and kids? Ha! Seriously, it did occur to me that Tu= rgon might have been somewhere near Finrod, but also wondered how Fingon c= ame to be alone at the front, if that was the case. **************Get f= antasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Footb= all today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=3Daolspr000500= 00000020) -------------------------------1216467274 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
In a message dat= ed 7/19/2008 6:32:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes:
In the end of Fingolfin's host, checking if= Finrod is following and
busy with taking care of Elenw=EB and Idril.= Just ideas ;)
Looking after the slackers and kids= ? Ha! Seriously, it did occur to me that Turgon might have been somewhere = near Finrod, but also wondered how Fingon came to be alone at the front, i= f that was the case.



Get= fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for= FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
-------------------------------1216467274-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2203 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66295 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 12:05:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 12:05:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 12:05:11 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31E50748066 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:05:10 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:05:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:05:11 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1075205392.20080719140511@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[6]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=EZBCv7C72JrFu3RpCM7uxgV0leOO_1xahEZ7dIa7IN2hwbUmuYY X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle hac> Looking after the slackers and kids? Ha! Seriously, it did hac> occur to me that Turgon might have been somewhere near Finrod, hac> but also wondered how Fingon came to be alone at the front, if hac> that was the case. I really have to pack and go out of home! But how can I resist chatting about Findek�no XD Fingon, restless Noldorin spirit, he was the most eager to go, wasn't that mentioned in the Silm? [He and Galadriel added to the events after publication of the LotR ;)] Maybe hoping to get Nelyo's friendship back? Too impatient to see the new world and fight the enemy? Fingolfin, reluctant and going by force had to walk way too slowly for Fingon. So he went faster, leading a front guard, scouting party or just a bunch of impatient Noldorin boys who finally do something really exciting. Brand new powerZ on high testosterone going to kick Melkor's asS, yay! Finrod and Turgon were rather curious of the other lands, than eager to fight. That might be fanon, but Finrod and Turgon will always be a scholar types to me. Turgon fights when he has to, but prefers other activities, so was not eager to follow F�anorians that close. Also they were less friendly with F�anor and sons, than Fingon used to be. As RedPanda wrote in her fanfik Fingon was Nerdanel 8th son - in character and spirit. Turgon is also more responsible of the brothers, having family and thinking more about wellbeing off his people than wars. Only not wise enough to listen to Ulmo's messenger, but that was after Manw�'s curse, before Alqualond� all was different and still "clean". And let us not forget about Arak�no Argon, the most hasty of the brothers! JRRT 'The Shibboleth of F�anor', The Peoples of Middle-earth, HoME XII: "Arak�no was the tallest of the brothers and the most impetuous, but his name was never changed to Sindarin form, for he perished in the first battle of Fingolfin's host with the Orks, the Battle of the Lammoth (but the Sindarin form Argon was often later given as a name by Noldor and Sindar in memory of his valour). But all her children went with their father: Findek�no, Turuk�no, Arak�no, and �riss� his daughter and third child; she was under the protection of Turuk�no who loved her dearly, and of Elenw� his wife. Findek�no had no wife or child; neither had Arak�no. These names were probably father-names, though Arak�no had been the mother-name of Fingolfin. K�no meant in Quenya 'commander', usually as the title of a lesser chief, especially one acting as the deputy of one higher in rank. The third son of Fingolfin, Arak�no (Argon), emerged in the course of the making of the genealogies. A pencilled note on the last of the four tables says that he fell in the fighting at Alqualond�; this was struck out, and my father noted that a preferable story was that he perished in the Ice. It is curious that this third son, of whom there had never before been any mention, entered (as it seems) without a story, and the manner of his death was twice changed before the remarkable appearance here of 'the first battle of Fingolfin's host with the Orks, the Battle of the Lammoth', in which he fell. In the account in the Grey Annals Fingolfin, after the passage of the Helkarax�, 'marched from the North unopposed through the fastness of the realm of Morgoth, and he passed over Dor-Daedeloth, and his foes hid beneath the earth'; whereas in the present note his host was attacked in Lammoth 'at unawares as they marched southwards'" Knowing that I'm sure the youngest bro was by Fingon's side. Or maybe it's abandoned hasty alterego of Fingon, anyway it was rather Christopher's decision that he never appeared in the Silmarillion, we have no idea if John would add him or not. To me he exists and demands attention ;D Now, the earliest till Sunday, I've got to pack and go out. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2204 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32114 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 12:09:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 12:09:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 12:09:22 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cd6.33c5af29 (48600) for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:09:20 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216469360" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[6]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=8HyIUUSe0M4vebKNYgU87Qxwh7RgnO8ygglHrNJqanVrAp2lHJeQ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1216469360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/19/2008 7:05:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle= @tlen.pl writes: RedPanda wrote in her fanfik Fingon was Nerdanel 8th son = - in character and spirit. I love that one! Thanks again for the food f= or thought. Sorry to have held you up. Appreciate at the points about Ara= k=E1no as well. **************Get fantasy football with free live s= coring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fan= house.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=3Daolspr00050000000020) -------------------------------1216469360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
In a messa= ge dated 7/19/2008 7:05:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writ= es:
RedPanda wrote in her fanfik Fingon= was Nerdanel 8th son - in character
and spirit.
=
I love that one! Thanks again for the food for thou= ght. Sorry to have held you up. Appreciate at the points about Arak=E1no a= s well.
 
 



<= FONT style=3D"color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;">
Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
= -------------------------------1216469360-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2205 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72584 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 12:12:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 12:12:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 12:12:06 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DCE7748076 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:12:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:12:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:12:05 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <18610455170.20080719141205@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[6]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=xRpMIUW1z-rxlMsJHXBRRKLX0fwtBT4v7wB0174CKsi0lui9XQI X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, Just from that HoME quote I posted: "But all her children went with their father: Findek�no, Turuk�no, Arak�no, and �riss� his daughter and third child; she was under the protection of Turuk�no who loved her dearly, and of Elenw� his wife." Ha, he had to take care of the girls, no way he could run in front as all the happy bachelors ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2206 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55073 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 12:13:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 12:13:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 12:13:58 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c1f.3ee55ad6 (48600) for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:13:55 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216469635" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[6]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=dOrwqOPR2gM4pGnfTyB08BltKo9fKVO6PeDp9U34lzM53ZNT6MuC X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1216469635 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/19/2008 7:12:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@t= len.pl writes: "But all her children went with their father: Findek=E1no,= Turuk=E1no, Arak=E1no, and =CDriss=EB his daughter and third child; she w= as under the protection of Turuk=E1no who loved her dearly, and of Elenw= =EB his wife." Ha, he had to take care of the girls, no way he could run = in front as all the happy bachelors ;) That's qute an image and sounds ver= y like Turgon. **************Get fantasy football with free live sc= oring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanh= ouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=3Daolspr00050000000020) -------------------------------1216469635 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
In a message dat= ed 7/19/2008 7:12:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes:
"But all her children went with their fat= her: Findek=E1no, Turuk=E1no,
Arak=E1no, and =CDriss=EB his daughter = and third child; she was under the protection of Turuk=E1no who loved he= r dearly, and of Elenw=EB his wife."

Ha, he had to take care of t= he girls, no way he could run in front
as all the happy bachelors ;)<= /FONT>
That's qute an image and sounds very like Turgon.<= /DIV>

 
 



Get fant= asy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanH= ouse Fantasy Football today.
-------------------------------1216469635-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2207 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44183 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 15:07:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 15:07:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 15:07:23 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 8644 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jul 2008 15:07:20 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:07:20 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:07:20 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-242640653-1216480040=:8077" Message-ID: <281420.8077.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=I12POuhx75zDRdcJ_ZxcMKLoaObHzbetNnGTDPnUnPP8uufMxw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-242640653-1216480040=:8077 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It says a little later after Mandos spoke 'But in that hour Finarfin fors= ook the march, and turned back, being filled with grief, and with bitterne= ss against the House of F=EBanor, because of his kinship with Olw=EB of Al= qualond=EB; and many of his people went with him, retracing their steps in= sorrow, until they beheld once more the far beam of the Mindon upon T=FAn= a still shining in the night, and so came at last to Valinor. There they r= eceived the pardon of the Valar, and Finarfin was set to rule the remnant = of the Noldor in the Blessed Realm. But his sons were not with him, for th= ey would not forsake the sons of Fingolfin; and all Fingolfin's folk went = forward still, feeling the constraint of their kinship and the will of F= =EBanor, and fearing to face the doom of the Valar, since not all of them = had been guiltless of the Kinslaying at Alqualond=EB. Moreover Fingon and = Turgon were bold and fiery of heart, and loath to abandon any task to which= they had put their hands until the bitter end, if bitter it must be. So t= he main host held on, and swiftly the evil that was foretold began its wor= k.' ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't= come when you call her http://alassante.livejournal.com/ =A0 =A0 --- On = Sat, 7/19/08, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: From: hear= tofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGu= ild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoog= roups.com Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 6:16 AM = =A0 Only Fingon and his soldiers joined the fight. Do you gave a = source for that. I've=A0can't find in anything the Silm that says that.=A0= In English at least it sounds=A0completely vague (see quotation below). It= states that Fingon was the front and went in first and those immediately = behind him joined in. Nothing about that indicates it was only him. =A0 "= but the vanguard of the Noldor were succoured by Fingon with the foremost = of the host of Fingolfin, who coming up found a battle joined and their ow= n kin falling, and rushed in before they knew rightly the cause of the qua= rrel; " Chapter 9, "The Flight of the Noldor. Get fantasy football with = free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. = --0-242640653-1216480040=:8077 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It says a little later after Mandos spoke
'But in that hour Finarfin forsook the march, an= d turned back, being filled with grief, and with bitterness against the Hou= se of F=EBanor, because of his kinship with Olw=EB of Alqualond=EB; and ma= ny of his people went with him, retracing their steps in sorrow, until the= y beheld once more the far beam of the Mindon upon T=FAna still shining in= the night, and so came at last to Valinor. There they received the pardon= of the Valar, and Finarfin was set to rule the remnant of the Noldor in t= he Blessed Realm. But = his sons were not with him, for they would not forsake the sons of Fingolf= in; and all Fingolfin's folk went forward still, feeling the constraint of= their kinship and the will of F=EBanor, and fearing to face the doom of t= he Valar, since not all of them had been guiltless of the Kinslaying at Al= qualond=EB. Moreover Fingon and Turgon were bold and fiery of heart, and l= oath to abandon any task to which they had put their hands until the bitte= r end, if bitter it must be. So the main host held on, and swiftly = the evil that was foretold began its work.'

~~**~~
Ali Kat/= Alassante/Kathye
A = Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
http://alassante.livejournal.com/
 
<= /font> 


--- On Sat, 7/19/08, heart= ofoshun@aol.com wrote:
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
= Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde<= br>To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 19,= 2008, 6:16 AM

 
Only Fingon and his soldiers joined the fight= .
Do you gave a source for t= hat. I've can't find in anything the Silm that says that. In Eng= lish at least it sounds completely vague (see quotation below). It st= ates that Fingon was the front and went in first and those immediately beh= ind him joined in. Nothing about that indicates it was only him.
 
"but the vanguard of the Noldor = were succoured by Fingon with the foremost of the host of Fingolfin, who c= oming up found a battle joined and their own kin falling, and rushed in be= fore they knew rightly the cause of the quarrel; " Chapter 9, "The Flight = of the Noldor.



Get fantasy f= ootball with free live scoring. Sign= up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
=

--0-242640653-1216480040=:8077-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2208 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67848 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 15:13:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 15:13:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 15:13:01 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.bcc.30d9a726 (48600) for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:12:53 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216480373" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=n7JqsMLBBkusehOghdAMXx1CELOcWT_HEhFeDD6s1Swwl8tBWACq X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1216480373 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes. I have that quote also, but it didn't really answer the question for me either. It indicates that not all participated. But again there is no separation of Fingon and Turgon here. However, Turgon is often tied to Finrod, so perhaps he was farther back at Alqualonde. But again I think if he wasn't near the front with his father and brother, that Tolkien might have made that clear. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------------------------1216480373 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Yes. I have that = quote also, but it didn't really answer the question for me either.

It indicates th= at not all participated. But again there is no separation of Fingon and Tur= gon here. However, Turgon is often tied to Finrod, so perhaps he was = farther back at Alqualonde. But again I think if he wasn't near the front = with his father and brother, that Tolkien might have made that clear= .




Get = fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for = FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
-------------------------------1216480373-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2209 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33732 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2008 16:15:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2008 16:15:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2008 16:15:36 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 95857 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jul 2008 16:15:33 -0000 X-Received: from [98.16.40.125] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:15:33 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:15:33 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-922077835-1216484133=:95022" Message-ID: <257994.95022.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] QuestiIon - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=bpNCjQFHq_ZZXZhLsUpLJqRNf7-TmpvhkSKQ2cL7fC29XvBJGw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-922077835-1216484133=:95022 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Personally I interpreted that he was with Fingon from that comment. Maybe = later in the Silm when Thingol is told about the Kinslayings it says if he = was involved personally. ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many= names....still won't come when you call her http://alassante.livejournal.c= om/ =A0 =A0 --- On Sat, 7/19/08, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [= SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde To: Silmarilli= onWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 11:12 AM = Yes. I have that quote also, but it didn't really= answer the question for me either. It indicates that not all participat= ed. But again there is no separation of Fingon and Turgon here. However, T= urgon is=A0often tied to Finrod, so perhaps he was farther back at Alqualo= nde. But again I think if he wasn't near the front with his father and bro= ther, that Tolkien=A0might have made that clear. Get fantasy football wi= th free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. = --0-922077835-1216484133=:95022 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Personally I interpreted that he was with Fingon from that comment. Maybe later in the Silm when Thingol is told about the Kinslayings it says if he was involved personally.
~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
http://alassante.livejournal.com/
 
 


--- On Sat, 7/19/08, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question - re Turgon at Alqualonde
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 11:12 AM

Yes. I have that quote also, but it didn't really answer the question for me either.

It indicates that not all participated. But again there is no separation of Fingon and Turgon here. However, Turgon is often tied to Finrod, so perhaps he was farther back at Alqualonde. But again I think if he wasn't near the front with his father and brother, that Tolkien might have made that clear.




Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

--0-922077835-1216484133=:95022-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2210 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47204 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2008 20:14:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2008 20:14:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2008 20:14:13 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E73C10404D for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:14:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [83.168.113.67] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:14:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:14:14 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <275798861.20080720221414@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <257994.95022.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <257994.95022.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] QuestiIon - re Turgon at Alqualonde X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=ax7xRjsHjlt3micUCss8Igq9p_MVomTg7GQ-vBuOY0M7Ai6qgWg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante, A> Personally I interpreted that he was with Fingon from that A> comment. Maybe later in the Silm when Thingol is told about the A> Kinslayings it says if he was involved personally. To me it was rather description of their characters being alike: "Moreover Fingon and Turgon were bold and fiery of heart, and loath to abandon any task to which they had put their hands until the bitter end, if bitter it must be." It could be interpreted that they both fight, but given he had girls under care I don't see him among fighters in a first row. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.isle.px.pl http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2211 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2408 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2008 14:38:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2008 14:38:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.28) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2008 14:38:18 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so643048ywe.17 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:38:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.66.2 with SMTP id o2mr2778330waa.83.1216651097762; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:38:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.185.2 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <511ea890807210738x2bc747dfi888d19eb10ae1ef3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:38:17 -0500 To: HaldirLovers , littlebalrog@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: An Elvish Enigma (G) Maedhros, Maglor, Elrond, Elros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=uDBlchuw0wlbz3q3GkAiljSBZHRszRtaniydohr-yf8R-HYNgcQ X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex Title: An Elvish Enigma Author: Zhie Rating: G Characters: Maedhros, Maglor= , Elrond, Elros Summary: Two brothers attempt to solve the mystery of two o= ther brothers. Archive: http://phoenix.zhie.us Disclaimer: Not mine, just p= laying with them. Promise to put them back when done. Notes: Written for t= he JFA Challenge #10 ; stand alone; bunniverse compatible "I did a littl= e scouting, a little recon as it were, and as far as anyone can tell they w= ere never given names." Maglor looked up at his older brother but was care= ful not to disturb either of the elflings. One was asleep on either side o= f him, mirroring the other not only in actions but in appearance as well, e= xcept for the fact that the one who was a little bolder and perhaps a littl= e older had torn his shirt along the bottom. When they found the pair, the= little ones seemed curious, yet cautious. Now, on the third day, they had= silently and mutually decided that their rescuers were safe and snuggled u= p to Maglor when he settled down to rest near the campfire. "Who did you c= onsult with? I thought they were the only survivors." "Local folk," repli= ed Maedhros. "I talked to some trees and a couple of woodland creatures." = He cleared his throat and sat down near his brother. "Because the trees a= re ever so reliable in remembering things," teased Maglor. Maedhros shrugg= ed. "There was an owl who explained to me that their father never had the = chance to name them. He is a mariner and they were born while he was away.= Their mother, following custom, waited for her husband's return." "I lov= e your bedtime stories," mumbled Maglor, eyelids drooping. "You always tol= d better stories than father did." "This is not a story," replied Maedhros= quite seriously, but Maglor only smiled and nodded. "Whether you believe = me or not, the fact remains that we have no idea what their names are. If = they even had names. It certainly seems as if they do not." "Mmmhmm." "S= o help me, Maglor, do not fall asleep on me." It was common knowledge to t= hose who knew Maedhros that when something was bothering him he would be un= able to sleep until the matter was attended to. Maglor, on the other hand, = often took his worries to bed and worked them out in his dreams. Maedhros = reached over and dared to shake his younger brother's shoulder gently. Nei= ther of the elflings woke, but Maglor blinked and refocused on Maedhros. "= We need to name them." "I concur." "What should we name them?" "You want= to do this now? My foot fell asleep. How am I supposed to concentrate wi= th my foot all tingly?" "If we do not think of a name for each of them soo= n, they are going to believe that their name is 'pennyth'." "What is so wr= ong with that?" "Besides the obvious? They need separate names," argued M= aedhros. Maglor frowned. "Ambarussa both had the same name." "Do you rem= ember how confusing that was?" Maedhros sighed. "I miss them." He had to = strain a little to reach, but Maglor managed to take hold of his brother's = hand and squeeze it. It gave them both a little comfort, a little connecti= on to what they had lost. "I miss them, too. Even Celegorm." "Even Celeg= orm? I would have said, even Curufin." There was a pause as they each pri= vately reminisced for a while. When one of the twins, the older one they a= ssumed, rolled over and sleepily crawled into Maedhros' lap, he said, "We r= eally do need names for them." "Are we sure they have no family?" "In som= e disconnected, roundabout way, I think we are the only family they have ri= ght now," said Maedhros. "All you have to do is look at them to know they = are of Finwe's line." "We could name them after grandfather," suggested Ma= glor. "That might be too bold." Maglor gently laughed. "We should talk."= "It would be too telling. It might not be a good idea to reveal that; es= pecially not with Morgoth and his enemies around," said Maedhros softly. H= e seemed to ponder another thought, and Maglor waited for him to share what= ever idea he had once it was fully formed. "Perhaps we can redeem ourselve= s and the actions of our brother a little." "How so?" wondered Maglor. "P= erhaps we can honor their uncles, the ones we could not save," Maedhros sai= d. "Do you remember what they were called?" "Elur=E9d and Elur=EDn," Magl= or recalled. "But those names are just as telling as naming them after gra= ndfather would be." "I mean only to borrow a part of them, not the whole."= Maedhros looked at the elfling that was curled up in his lap. "I wonder = what their father would have named them." "You said their father was a mar= iner? I think Elros might be a nice name for one of them," said Maglor. M= aedhros nodded with approval. "I like that." He looked between the two an= d said, "Is this the older one? We should name him first." "Yes, I think = he is the elder of the two." Maglor concentrated on the elfling sleeping b= eside him. "This one is so calm and patient=85 we could name him Elsed." = "Blech." "I take it you are not as impressed with my second try." "Elros = is good. Elsed=85 that is just daring the child to be a cause of trouble,"= warned Maedhros. "What about Elrond?" "Elrond=85 elf of the cave? Why w= ould you call the child that?" wondered Maglor. "No, no, not cave elf=85 E= lrond, like, star dome=85 like the heavens. With all of the stars." Maedhr= os stared back at the odd look his brother was giving him. "What?" "What = sort of translations are you using?" "Fine, then you come up with a better= one," insisted Maedhros. Maglor, not being one to argue, but absolutely b= eing one to like getting a good night of rest when he could, shook his head= . "Elrond is fine. It seems a little much for such a little one." "What = do you mean by that?" asked Maedhros as he lifted up the newly named Elros = and resituated him next to his brother again. "It seems like the sort of n= ame one has to grow into." "I suppose," said Maedhros. "But at least now = they have names and are no longer mysteries." "An enigma they will remain,= Maitimo, the difference is now we know what to call the little mysteries w= e have." "I already told you, the owl said=85 oh, never mind." Maedhros s= mirked and shook his head, and made himself comfortable for the rest of the= night watch, while Maglor, Elros, and Elrond slept under the watchful star= s. -- Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://pho= enix.zhie.us They're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2212 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78454 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2008 19:16:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2008 19:16:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.28) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2008 19:16:16 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so952609ywj.7 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:16:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.92.2 with SMTP id u2mr4097076wal.33.1216754175406; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:16:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:16:15 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_131357_20735114.1216754175407" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Z8XZAUuF3X5LRxRg8vNjpLilM5xi0oTECtpRcdGS7APj6zsHQonp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_131357_20735114.1216754175407-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2213 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19523 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2008 19:27:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2008 19:27:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.176) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2008 19:27:52 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id w53so1078974pyg.25 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:27:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.157.1 with SMTP id f1mr4127343wae.14.1216754871588; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:27:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:27:51 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <511ea890807210738x2bc747dfi888d19eb10ae1ef3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_131594_8200439.1216754871315" References: <511ea890807210738x2bc747dfi888d19eb10ae1ef3@mail.gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] FIC: An Elvish Enigma (G) Maedhros, Maglor, Elrond, Elros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=vz3sFQJ05sqdTGNqXOLPBndAyGwnJR8wZHSsIixaB8Z7IawAtEBm X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_131594_8200439.1216754871315-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2214 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18526 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2008 20:07:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2008 20:07:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.181) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2008 20:07:51 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a25so1021821pyi.15 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.64.233.12 with SMTP id f12mr7022590qbh.78.1216757270416; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.129.90? ( [76.189.129.90]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f10sm3208799pyh.14.2008.07.22.13.07.49 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <48863E19.9040702@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:07:53 -0500 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=xa4CRQyYhkCDy78QFeQNl8TAQPz-81gWEDFK00JL_64ddwBBWpuJTw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, I am willing to help with _The Hobbit_, and also possibly parts of _LOTR_ (maybe Book V?) However, how soon would he need it? The next month is a little crazy for me, so if it could be put off for a while that would be very helpful. If you could give me a time frame I will better know what I could contribute. Marta Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > Hi, everyone, > > A while back, I dropped a not-so-subtle hint to my husband that it would > be really useful if we could have a reference in the SWG Reference > section that provides some basic information on weapons and armor that > might have been used in Tolkien's world: how they were made, when and > how they were used, and so on. My husband is studying for his Master's > degree in medieval history with a focus on medieval warfare. For fun, he > is learning medieval fighting techniques and armor-making, so he knows a > lot about the subject. > > Recently, a few people other than me mentioned to him that they would > also find it useful. Since his semester is winding to a close, he's > getting ready to start working on this resource. Which is where he needs > some help. > > Bobby knows a ton about medieval weapons and armor and fighting > techniques. What he /doesn't/ know is which of the thousands of > combinations thereof would be most useful to Tolkien writers and > artists. He's read LotR, /The Hobbit,/ and part of the Silm, and he's > listened to me yammer about Tolkien non-stop for four years now, but > he's not quite comfortable enough with the canon to go it alone. > > I've already told him that I will make the monumental sacrifice of > rereading /The Silmarillion/ and pulling out every quote related to > weapons and armor for him. ;) However, I'm also getting ready to go back > to school, so I can't commit to much else beyond that. If anyone would > like to help us with this project, by reading through Tolkien's books > and pulling out references to weapons and armor, we'd be very grateful > for this. In particular, LotR and /The Hobbit/ would be helpful, though > we won't turn down information from any of the books. Even keyword > searches of e-books would be better than nothing and probably more than > I could manage right now. Bobby will use the information gathered to > help him focus on which topics he thinks would be most useful for the > resource. > > Of course, credit and acknowledgement would be fairly given to all who > help with the project. > > If you can help out or have any questions, either reply to this message > or email me privately at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. Many thanks! > > Dawn > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2215 Return-Path: X-Sender: ladyeriala@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35374 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2008 20:26:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2008 20:26:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.101) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2008 20:26:33 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n9.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2008 20:26:33 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2008 20:26:33 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2008 20:26:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:26:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <511ea890807210738x2bc747dfi888d19eb10ae1ef3@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Feta" Subject: Re: FIC: An Elvish Enigma (G) Maedhros, Maglor, Elrond, Elros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=286663305; y=f5hMT3QjrYNgbbZy8GZ9Fcu8Ic21bmTM0ggtWlN0UCm0eaYdZw X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyeriala Oh... that was wonderful. I'm so glad you shared. :) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2217 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8044 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2008 22:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2008 22:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n52b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.166) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2008 22:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n52.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2008 22:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2008 22:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2008 22:42:14 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:42:13 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=x1DogrJ9FJqu2QafU5WMwjcC-3BbBMHWGwrUI9BoA9eQKa8 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 Ignore the previous blank one! What I meant to say was - Why not?!? :D If= Marta is on The Hobbit, I'll make a start on LoTR. Let's say Books I & I= I if we are stacking out territory... A time scale would be useful here to= o ;P Moreth PS Does Bobby's expertise cover cavalry deployment? --- In S= ilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Hi, everyone, > > A while back, I dropped a not-so-subtle hin= t to my husband that it would be > really useful if we could have a refere= nce in the SWG Reference section that > provides some basic information on= weapons and armor that might have been > used in Tolkien's world: how the= y were made, when and how they were used, > and so on. My husband is study= ing for his Master's degree in medieval > history with a focus on medieval= warfare. For fun, he is learning medieval > fighting techniques and armor= -making, so he knows a lot about the subject. > > Recently, a few people = other than me mentioned to him that they would also > find it useful. Sinc= e his semester is winding to a close, he's getting ready > to start workin= g on this resource. Which is where he needs some help. > > Bobby knows a = ton about medieval weapons and armor and fighting techniques. > What he *d= oesn't* know is which of the thousands of combinations thereof > would be = most useful to Tolkien writers and artists. He's read LotR, *The > Hobbit,= * and part of the Silm, and he's listened to me yammer about Tolkien > non= -stop for four years now, but he's not quite comfortable enough with the >= canon to go it alone. > > I've already told him that I will make the monu= mental sacrifice of rereading > *The Silmarillion* and pulling out every q= uote related to weapons and armor > for him. ;) However, I'm also getting = ready to go back to school, so I can't > commit to much else beyond that. = If anyone would like to help us with this > project, by reading through To= lkien's books and pulling out references to > weapons and armor, we'd be v= ery grateful for this. In particular, LotR and *The > Hobbit* would be hel= pful, though we won't turn down information from any of > the books. Even = keyword searches of e-books would be better than nothing and > probably mo= re than I could manage right now. Bobby will use the information > gathere= d to help him focus on which topics he thinks would be most useful > for t= he resource. > > Of course, credit and acknowledgement would be fairly giv= en to all who help > with the project. > > If you can help out or have an= y questions, either reply to this message or > email me privately at DawnF= elagund AT gmail DOT com. Many thanks! > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Fe= lagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2218 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34720 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2008 22:50:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2008 22:50:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2008 22:50:23 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cdc.319af262 (37146) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:50:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from smtprly-da01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.144]) by cia-ma03.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA038-911a4886642032f; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:50:08 -0400 X-Received: from MBLK-M11 (mblk-m11.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.44]) by smtprly-da01.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.10) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDA016-5baf4886641a22; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:50:02 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:50:02 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CABA646927EB1B_654_134D_MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37955-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.44) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:50:02 -0400 Message-Id: <8CABA645CD0FE57-654-9B9@MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=_HZsVaGKJUxwtNzvpMv-udFgukUOmwKvaKIIXCnV3T7D1DiIUR6v X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CABA646927EB1B_654_134D_MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" PS Does Bobby's expertise cover cavalry deployment? You people are way too clever for me. I am, of course, extremely interested in the Battles of Beleriand and the techniques of the Noldor, but I think I will wait and see who bites before I hop in on this one.?I also suspect like every other aspect of?canon there will be a lot more speculation involved in sorting out the First Age and prior--more sources and more contradictions no doubt. -----Original Message----- From: moreth00 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 6:42 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor Ignore the previous blank one! What I meant to say was - Why not?!? :D If Marta is on The Hobbit, I'll make a start on LoTR. Let's say Books I & II if we are stacking out territory... A time scale would be useful here too ;P Moreth PS Does Bobby's expertise cover cavalry deployment? --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Hi, everyone, > > A while back, I dropped a not-so-subtle hint to my husband that it would be > really useful if we could have a reference in the SWG Reference section that > provides some basic information on weapons and armor that might have been > used in Tolkien's world: how they were made, when and how they were used, > and so on. My husband is studying for his Master's degree in medieval > history with a focus on medieval warfare. For fun, he is learning medieval > fighting techniques and armor-making, so he knows a lot about the subject. > > Recently, a few people other than me mentioned to him that they would also > find it useful. Since his semester is winding to a close, he's getting ready > to start working on this resource. Which is where he needs some help. > > Bobby knows a ton about medieval weapons and armor and fighting techniques. > What he *doesn't* know is which of the thousands of combinations thereof > would be most useful to Tolkien writers and artists. He's read LotR, *The > Hobbit,* and part of the Silm, and he's listened to me yammer about Tolkien > non-stop for four years now, but he's not quite comfortable enough with the > canon to go it alone. > > I've already told him that I will make the monumental sacrifice of rereading > *The Silmarillion* and pulling out every quote related to weapons and armor > for him. ;) However, I'm also getting ready to go back to school, so I can't > commit to much else beyond that. If anyone would like to help us with this > project, by reading through Tolkien's books and pulling out references to > weapons and armor, we'd be very grateful for this. In particular, LotR and *The > Hobbit* would be helpful, though we won't turn down information from any of > the books. Even keyword searches of e-books would be better than nothing and > probably more than I could manage right now. Bobby will use the information > gathered to help him focus on which topics he thinks would be most useful > for the resource. > > Of course, credit and acknowledgement would be fairly given to all who help > with the project. > > If you can help out or have any questions, either reply to this message or > email me privately at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. Many thanks! > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > ----------MB_8CABA646927EB1B_654_134D_MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
PS Does Bobby's expertise cover cavalry deployment?

You people are way too clever for me. I am, of course, extremely interested in the Battles of Beleriand and the techniques of the Noldor, but I think I will wait and see who bites before I hop in on this one. I also suspect like every other aspect of canon there will be a lot more speculation involved in sorting out the First Age and prior--more sources and more contradictions no doubt.


-----Original Message-----
From: moreth00
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 6:42 pm
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor

Ignore the previous blank one!

What I meant to say was - Why not?!? :D

If Marta is on The Hobbit, I'll make a start on LoTR. Let's say
Books I & II if we are stacking out territory...

A time scale would be useful here too ;P

Moreth

PS Does Bobby's expertise cover cavalry deployment?

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund"
...> wrote:
>
> Hi, everyone,
>
> A while back, I dropped a not-so-subtle hint to my husband that it
would be
> really useful if we could have a reference in the SWG Reference
section that
> provides some basic information on weapons and armor that might
have been
> used in Tolkien's world: how they were made, when and how they were
used,
> and so on. My husband is studying for his Master's degree in
medieval
> history with a focus on medieval warfare. For fun, he is learning
medieval
> fighting techniques and armor-making, so he knows a lot about the
subject.
>
> Recently, a few people other than me mentioned to him that they
would also
> find it useful. Since his semester is winding to a close, he's
getting ready
> to start working on this resource. Which is where he needs some
help.
>
> Bobby knows a ton about medieval weapons and armor and fighting
techniques.
> What he *doesn't* know is which of the thousands of combinations
thereof
> would be most useful to Tolkien writers and artists. He's read
LotR, *The
> Hobbit,* and part of the Silm, and he's listened to me yammer about
Tolkien
> non-stop for four years now, but he's not quite comfortable enough
with the
> canon to go it alone.
>
> I've already told him that I will make the monumental sacrifice of
rereading
> *The Silmarillion* and pulling out every quote related to weapons
and armor
> for him. ;) However, I'm also getting ready to go back to school,
so I can't
> commit to much else beyond that. If anyone would like to help us
with this
> project, by reading through Tolkien's books and pulling out
references to
> weapons and armor, we'd be very grateful for this. In particular,
LotR and *The
> Hobbit* would be helpful, though we won't turn down information
from any of
> the books. Even keyword searches of e-books would be better than
nothing and
> probably more than I could manage right now. Bobby will use the
information
> gathered to help him focus on which topics he thinks would be most
useful
> for the resource.
>
> Of course, credit and acknowledgement would be fairly given to all
who help
> with the project.
>
> If you can help out or have any questions, either reply to this
message or
> email me privately at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. Many thanks!
>
> Dawn
>
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
>

----------MB_8CABA646927EB1B_654_134D_MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2219 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79586 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2008 22:59:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2008 22:59:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.125.50) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2008 22:59:23 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 12160 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jul 2008 22:59:20 -0000 X-Received: from [201.213.11.66] by web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:59:19 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1042.40 YahooMailWebService/0.7.218 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:59:19 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1322199902-1216767559=:12010" Message-ID: <988450.12010.qm@web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Angelica Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=VWsPcLcC_ki0LtcosUq8jtTkEwPfiah_7JiH1eGLLes0swhfMnqAc7zL X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --0-1322199902-1216767559=:12010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, I can't help myself. I'll jump in I'll deal with the Akallabeth, if tha= t's useful. I haven't read it in a long time and this is a good opportunity= to go back to it Angelica ----- Original Message ---- From: Dawn Felagu= nd To: SWG Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 4:16:15 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGu= ild] Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor Hi, everyone, =A0 = A while back, I dropped a not-so-subtle hint to my husband that it would be= really useful if we could have a reference in the SWG Reference section th= at provides some basic information on weapons and armor that might have bee= n used in Tolkien's world: how they were made, when and how they were used,= and so on. My husband is studying for his Master's degree in medieval hist= ory with a focus on medieval warfare. For fun, he is learning medieval figh= ting techniques and armor-making, so he knows a lot about the subject. =A0 = Recently, a few people other than me mentioned to him that they would also = find it useful. Since his semester is winding to a close, he's getting read= y to start working on this resource. Which is where he needs some help. =A0= Bobby knows a ton about medieval weapons and armor and fighting techniques= . What he doesn't know is which of the thousands of combinations thereof wo= uld be most useful to Tolkien writers and artists. He's read LotR, The Hobb= it, and part of the Silm, and he's listened to me yammer about Tolkien non-= stop for four years now, but he's not quite comfortable enough with the can= on to go it alone. =A0 I've already told him that I will make the monumenta= l sacrifice of rereading The Silmarillion and pulling out every quote relat= ed to weapons and armor for him. ;)=A0However, I'm also getting ready to go= back to school, so I can't commit to much else beyond that. If anyone woul= d like to help us with this project, by reading through Tolkien's books and= pulling out references to weapons and armor, we'd be very grateful for thi= s. In particular, LotR and The Hobbit would be helpful, though we won't tur= n down information from any of the books. Even keyword searches of e-books = would be better than nothing and probably more than I could manage right no= w. Bobby will use the information gathered to help him focus on which topic= s he thinks would be most useful for the resource. =A0 Of course, credit an= d acknowledgement would be fairly given to all who help with the project. = =A0 If you can help out or have any questions, either reply to this message= or email me privately at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. Many thanks! =A0 D= awn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org --0-1322199902-1216767559=:12010 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Ok, I can't help myself. I'll jump in
I'll deal with the Akallabeth, if that's useful. I haven't read it in a long time and this is a good opportunity to go back to it
Angelica


----- Original Message ----
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SWG
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 4:16:15 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor

Hi, everyone,
 
A while back, I dropped a not-so-subtle hint to my husband that it would be really useful if we could have a reference in the SWG Reference section that provides some basic information on weapons and armor that might have been used in Tolkien's world: how they were made, when and how they were used, and so on. My husband is studying for his Master's degree in medieval history with a focus on medieval warfare. For fun, he is learning medieval fighting techniques and armor-making, so he knows a lot about the subject.
 
Recently, a few people other than me mentioned to him that they would also find it useful. Since his semester is winding to a close, he's getting ready to start working on this resource. Which is where he needs some help.
 
Bobby knows a ton about medieval weapons and armor and fighting techniques. What he doesn't know is which of the thousands of combinations thereof would be most useful to Tolkien writers and artists. He's read LotR, The Hobbit, and part of the Silm, and he's listened to me yammer about Tolkien non-stop for four years now, but he's not quite comfortable enough with the canon to go it alone.
 
I've already told him that I will make the monumental sacrifice of rereading The Silmarillion and pulling out every quote related to weapons and armor for him. ;) However, I'm also getting ready to go back to school, so I can't commit to much else beyond that. If anyone would like to help us with this project, by reading through Tolkien's books and pulling out references to weapons and armor, we'd be very grateful for this. In particular, LotR and The Hobbit would be helpful, though we won't turn down information from any of the books. Even keyword searches of e-books would be better than nothing and probably more than I could manage right now. Bobby will use the information gathered to help him focus on which topics he thinks would be most useful for the resource.
 
Of course, credit and acknowledgement would be fairly given to all who help with the project.
 
If you can help out or have any questions, either reply to this message or email me privately at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. Many thanks!
 
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org

--0-1322199902-1216767559=:12010-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2220 Return-Path: X-Sender: hrymfaxe@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68692 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2008 12:48:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2008 12:48:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.205) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2008 12:48:23 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2008 12:48:23 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2008 12:48:23 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:48:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "hrymfaxe" Subject: Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=311315064; y=RYcVRo0xqpQSX6avzIP_U0ajfuq4Xe6QOIn4jw0Q1fZWV8c X-Yahoo-Profile: hrymfaxe I must have serious jetlag - I read Amrod and Amras in the title despite k= nowing about the project already! *headdesk* I'm sure I have read somethi= ng very recently (as in yesterday) that might be usefull, and if my sleep-= deprived brain isn't fooling me, I think it must have been in the Lays of = Beleriand... I'll give that one a look over the weekend. I'm really excite= d about this article!! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2221 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68307 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2008 14:43:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2008 14:43:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.179) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2008 14:43:33 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b50so1134808pyh.30 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:43:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.178.1 with SMTP id a1mr122244waf.20.1216824212980; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:43:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:43:32 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Cc: "Bobby Walls-Thumma" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_145386_9386895.1216824212976" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=1x92Y-vkI-ofmc4u4JHyNaEiaLMYGw9OIYjpIeMDyN9DBDnOkTHo X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_145386_9386895.1216824212976-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2222 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48602 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2008 15:32:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2008 15:32:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.158) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2008 15:32:43 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 3so417492yxi.80 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:32:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.150.51.2 with SMTP id y2mr281783yby.203.1216827162921; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.129.90? ( [76.189.129.90]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u2sm7549570pyb.1.2008.07.23.08.32.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <48874F1A.2080709@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:32:42 -0500 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Cc: Bobby Walls-Thumma References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=5mtdQTsTjpPrcwl1Dh-Lps0GoMXbakRJhCH3kYe_R3XRM6dWuGrDdw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, Since we have so long, I'd *like* to say I could cover the remaining portions of LOTR. At a bare minimum I hope to cover the Ithilien chapters of bk 4, since that goes well with the Gondor material of book bk 5. However, there's a little voice in the back of my head that keeps whispering things like "responsibility," "course incompletes," and "thesis defense" - so I am cautiously optimistic that I'll be able to do more than I've volunteered, would certainly *like* to, but of course the RL stuff comes first. As it should! I guess I'm saying if no one wants bks 3-4 & 6, I can take those on. I also would suggest that someone take at least some portions of UT. The whole thing probably doesn't need to be covered, but the disaster at Gladden Fields has some good information for Numenorean military protocol (weaponry, field rations, etc.), and I think the Battle of Celebrant section goes into actual tactics. I seem to remember that the history of Cel. + Gal. had some info on the defense of Eregion as well. If you want to be thorough about this kind of thing, someone should also probably take the LOTR appendices - Appendix A offers a pretty thorough military history of Rohan + Gondor, not to mention the dwarvish battles outside the eastern door of Moria.... Not that I'm volunteering to do this stuff (though I suppose it wouldn't take too much prodding for me to do at least some of it - I so love re-reading); more, I'm trying to identify other likely sources of information. Marta Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > Hi, everyone! > > Okay, to answer questions so far ... > > As far as timeframe goes, it does not have to be immediate. I've been > waiting for him to start on this for almost a year now, so another month > or two won't hurt. ;) > > So let's say that, ideally, most stuff should be in over the next two > months. I'll be starting on the Quenta Silmarillion right away since I > don't have much time left before starting classes, so he'll have > something to get started on. > > Moreth, regarding cavalry deployment, I'll have to ask him. I don't see > why it wouldn't! I know he has done some research on battles and such > involving horses. Sorry I can't be more specific than that ... this > particular branch of medieval history is most definitely /not/ my forte! > :) But I will ask him. > > Okay, folks who have shown interest so far ... > > *The Silmarillion (except Akallabeth)--*Dawn F. > *Akallabeth*--Angelica > *The Hobbit*--Marta > *LotR, Book V*--Marta (maybe) > *LotR, Books I and II*--Moreth > *Lays of Beleriand (HoMe III)*--Hrymfaxe > > This is not a final list by any means but just an easier way to 1) keep > me organized (always a plus!) and 2) let others who might be interested > know what's still available without flipping through multiple emails. > > Also, I know that things come up, so if it turns out you can't finish, > please just let me know. I can find someone else or work on it myself. > > Secondly, if anyone would like to have copies of any of the books in > digital format, just let me know. I have the Big Three, UT, all of the > HoMe, CoH, and Tolkien's Letters. It is so much easier to copy quotes > from an e-book rather than retyping them! > > And finally, feel free to keep asking questions or volunteering! We > still have at least half of LotR left and most of the books outside of > the Big Three. Many thanks to everyone who's volunteered; I'll admit > that I am pleasantly overwhelmed by the response so far! :) > > Dawn > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2223 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37999 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2008 16:35:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2008 16:35:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.139) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2008 16:35:05 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2008 16:35:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2008 16:35:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2008 16:35:05 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:35:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=K5ktzOAzjZSOY__zbnaBApPpz2Lw0jV_yFRppcol1-c2aFBgCZffnb9v X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 Re: Marta's post. I can take on chunks of Unfinished Tales since I have of= late been delving into the Disaster of the Gladden Fields and the History = of Galadriel and Celeborn for my own ficcishness. There may be some tidbit= s in UT pertaining to a description of N=FAmenor and Aldarion and Erendis t= hat might be relevant, too. I haven't read the Cirion and Eorl section for= ages (make that Ages) but would happily re-read it for the project. I kno= w Jael's given considerable thought to the Last Alliance so I might prod he= r for feedback via The Lizards. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2224 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55218 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2008 17:47:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2008 17:47:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2008 17:47:22 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.cf2.39565505 (14457) for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:47:13 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216835233" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms an... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=W2-smAIcFKweKvHO_UqAQRobjGhh7WOUE-rFoXb7yanLipRc-NzT X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1216835233 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a random point, for inspiration. There are some people on gaming sites on the internet, sorry no links for any of those because I didn't save them at the time because I am, in general so not an action writer (that is going to have to change if I stick with my Maedhros/Fingon story cycle) who have knocked themselves out trying to learn everything they can about the big and little battles of the Silmarillion. I don't think they were mainly weapons-oriented, but troop deployment and had a lot on the Battles of Beleriand, with lots of cites from the original sources, (I remember one trying to estimate sizes of different contingents of Elves and Men at Unnumbered Tears, for example). I am sure that they have all the same potential for disaster that most internet sources have. (Learned that lesson in working on the SWG bios the chances of getting any single detail right are small compared to the likelihood it might be correct.) But they were interesting to look at to get a sense of the scope of the things and someone's interpretation of size. Moreth pulled me up short on a little ficlet I was writing a couple of months ago about Fingon and his first encounter with the dragon, talking about the efficacy of horse archers. What? I couldn't continue at my current level of ignorance. I really do need to learn this stuff on some level. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------------------------1216835233 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Just a random poi= nt, for inspiration. There are some people on gaming sites on the internet= , sorry no links for any of those because I didn't save them at the time b= ecause I am, in general so not an action writer (that is going to hav= e to change if I stick with my Maedhros/Fingon story cycle) who have knocke= d themselves out trying to learn everything they can about the big and lit= tle battles of the Silmarillion.
 
I don't thi= nk they were mainly weapons-oriented, but troop deployment and had a lot o= n the Battles of Beleriand, with lots of cites from the original sources, = (I remember one trying to estimate sizes of different contingents of = Elves and Men at Unnumbered Tears, for example). I am sure that they = have all the same potential for disaster that most internet sources have. = (Learned that lesson in working on the SWG bios the chances of getting= any single detail right are small compared to the likelihood it migh= t be correct.) But they were interesting to look at to get a sense of= the scope of the things and someone's interpretation of size.
=  
Moreth pulled me up short on a little ficlet I was writin= g a couple of months ago about Fingon and his first encounter with the dra= gon, talking about the efficacy of horse archers. What? I couldn't continu= e at my current level of ignorance. I really do need to learn this stuff o= n some level.



Get fanta= sy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHo= use Fantasy Football today.
-------------------------------1216835233-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2225 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95819 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2008 22:09:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2008 22:09:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.172) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2008 22:09:29 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2008 22:09:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2008 22:09:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2008 22:09:29 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:09:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms an... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=Czg5k2EsnAV8QZ0M8D0LJDXdlc6963YAiRq1IYqNK7bj2YI X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = Moreth pulled me up short on a little ficlet I was writing a couple of >= months ago about Fingon and his first encounter with the dragon, talking = about the > efficacy of horse archers. > > Hehe! Give me horse-archers= and I will annihilate empires... Horse archers rock! (If you are (for exa= mple) a Roman legion, they are deeply scary people to face down...) "Then= Fingon prince of Hithlum rode against him [Glaurung] with archers on hors= e-back, and hemmed him around with a ring of swift riders..." Go, Fingon! = Right - back to re-reading LotR and looking at Carn D=FBm weapons :P More= th From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2226 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40523 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 18:06:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2008 18:06:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2008 18:06:13 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n4so1771897wag.5 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:06:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.24.5 with SMTP id 5mr820869wax.160.1216922773586; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:06:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:06:13 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Cc: "Bobby Walls-Thumma" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_167207_11832120.1216922773585" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=1wwAqv4HGtXqa4inoEiI5TUlcLsmPFFdt52u3lNzDS_8ANrQyBpR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_167207_11832120.1216922773585-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2227 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90298 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 18:10:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2008 18:10:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2008 18:10:25 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bf9.40a128f4 (48576) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:11:14 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1216923074" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms an... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=_awM2XrIcU4jae6-o5S6Uj7Sz2nuI9ykwAduqdqyr1INRH7JFCCc X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1216923074 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All right then, I think I want to do the LOTR Appendices, because I know them rather well. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------------------------1216923074 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
All right then, I= think I want to do the LOTR Appendices, because I know them rat= her well.



Get fantasy f= ootball with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse = Fantasy Football today.
-------------------------------1216923074-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2228 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42146 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 18:11:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2008 18:11:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.29) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2008 18:11:32 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 2so1351160ywt.21 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:11:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.77.1 with SMTP id e1mr838066wal.58.1216923091189; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:11:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:11:31 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <48874F1A.2080709@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_167350_8473573.1216923091181" References: <48874F1A.2080709@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms and Armor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=qi4zc23xgZtcm-rffl0Yt17OyRvCGMn5rFBMrw1NX0ZPGOe1iiFr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_167350_8473573.1216923091181-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2229 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48292 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2008 18:50:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2008 18:50:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.156) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2008 18:50:47 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so1896281ywr.6 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:50:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.73.20 with SMTP id a20mr895378wal.142.1216925446722; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:50:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:50:46 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_168091_31807617.1216925446719" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Help with a Research Project about Arms an... 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25 Jul 2008 19:00:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2008 19:00:13 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c78.3862793f (14502) for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:59:54 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1217012394" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: August's Character Biography X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=3xMNYtODBLHxGE6A4K2GVdUIMETI85kuamxcy2Y45FYQAlq_Akfs X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1217012394 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yea, Marta! Thank you. And thank you, Dawn, for organizing it. I really enjoy doing these bios. But this month it crowded upon the heels of extra projects in both my writing and my RL and a late finish with last month's bio. The break is very much appreciated. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------------------------1217012394 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Yea, Marta! Thank= you. And thank you, Dawn, for organizing it. I really enjoy doing these b= ios. But this month it crowded upon the heels of extra projects in both my= writing and my RL and a late finish with last month's bio. The break is v= ery much appreciated.



Ge= t fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up fo= r FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
-------------------------------1217012394-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2234 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21651 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2008 15:06:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2008 15:06:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2008 15:06:18 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 17958 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jul 2008 15:06:17 -0000 X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:06:17 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:06:17 -0700 (PDT) To: leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-832721499-1217257577=:17578" Message-ID: <622895.17578.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: TTT Prompt #21 - Silent: Mirror of Lies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=iESKoYxEDLlSLLthfiAzNMK8DdAdT7xAwALooKFKwWtqqV24mA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-832721499-1217257577=:17578 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Title: Mirror of Lies Author: Alassante Rating: G Warnings: none Summary: = Celebrimbor reflects on his Father's final act. (Silmarillion based story) = =A0 OSA Drabble Challenge #101 - Reflection and TTT Prompt #21 - Silent = =A0 Thanks to the Garden gang for the beta and advice ~*~ =93Celebrimbo= r, there=92s news about your father.=94 An elleth stood in the doorway. Se= eing her reddened eyes and tear-streaked face, Celebrimbor stiffened slight= ly, but schooled his features to not betray his emotions as she told him th= e details of Doriath. He closed his eyes to not see her deep sorrow at anot= her kinslaying, hearing death wails over the aria forever playing within hi= s heart. =91He=92s gone. No hope he=92ll repent. It=92s over.=92 =93Elwin= g, daughter of Dior, has the Silmaril,=94 the elleth whispered. Silence. T= he music hesitated for long breathless moments. It was so quiet, he felt li= ke screaming. Celebrimbor nodded, as agony wracked his fea. Her soft foots= teps drifted out of his chambers and he opened his eyes, staring at the mir= ror before him. He resembled his father but where Curufin=92s once-fair fea= tures were twisted with cruelty, pain and regret shadowed Celebrimbor=92s f= ace. He still remembered his father=92s words when his father and uncle wer= e driven from Nargothrond. =93If you turn from me now,=94 Curufin shouted = at him, =93you=92re no longer part of me, nor do you have my love or loyalt= y. If you betray me, it=92s the death of you in my mind.=94 =93Adar, this = unrelenting Oath is driving you mad. I cannot be loyal to that any longer o= r it will blacken my fea completely - as it will blacken yours if you do no= t turn from this path of deviltry," Celebrimbor pleaded. =93You are not Fea= nor. Do not make the same mistakes he made.=94 His father looked him over = with disgust. =93No, his sons were loyal to him. And we still are.=94 Cele= brimbor watched until his father rode out of sight, unwilling to give up ho= pe that he would turn back. The music in his heart returned, more haunted.= Celebrimbor shattered the mirror, casting aside his father=92s reflection.= ~~**~~ Ali Kat/Alassante/Kathye A Kat with many names....still won't c= ome when you call her http://alassante.livejournal.com/ =A0 =A0 --0-832721499-1217257577=:17578 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Title: Mirror of Lies
Author: Alassante
Rating: G
Warnings= : none
Summary: Celebrimbor reflects on his Father's final act. (Silmari= llion based story)

 

OSA Drabble Challenge #101 - Reflection and TTT Promp= t #21 - Silent

=  

Thanks to the Garden gang for the beta and advice

= ~*~


=93Celebrimbor, there=92s news about your father.=94 An elle= th stood in the doorway.

Seeing her reddened eyes and tear-streaked = face, Celebrimbor stiffened slightly, but schooled his features to not betr= ay his emotions as she told him the details of Doriath. He closed his eyes = to not see her deep sorrow at another kinslaying, hearing death wails over = the aria forever playing within his heart.

=91He=92s gone. No ho= pe he=92ll repent. It=92s over.=92

=93Elwing, daughter of Dior,= has the Silmaril,=94 the elleth whispered.

Silence. The music hesit= ated for long breathless moments. It was so quiet, he felt like screaming.<= BR>
Celebrimbor nodded, as agony wracked his fea. Her soft footsteps dri= fted out of his chambers and he opened his eyes, staring at the mirror befo= re him. He resembled his father but where Curufin=92s once-fair features w= ere twisted with cruelty, pain and regret shadowed Celebrimbor=92s face. He= still remembered his father=92s words when his father and uncle were drive= n from Nargothrond.

=93If you turn from me now,=94 Curufin shouted a= t him, =93you=92re no longer part of me, nor do you have my love or loyalty= . If you betray me, it=92s the death of you in my mind.=94

=93Adar, = this unrelenting Oath is driving you mad. I cannot be loyal to that any lon= ger or it will blacken my fea completely - as it will blacken yours if you = do not turn from this path of deviltry," Celebrimbor pleaded. =93You are no= t Feanor. Do not make the same mistakes he made.=94

His father looke= d him over with disgust. =93No, his sons were loyal to him. And we still ar= e.=94

Celebrimbor watched until his father rode out of sight, unwill= ing to give up hope that he would turn back.

The music in his heart = returned, more haunted. Celebrimbor shattered the mirror, casting aside hi= s father=92s reflection.
~~**~~
Ali Kat/Alassant= e/Kathye
A Kat with many names....still won't come when you call her
http://alassante.livejournal.com/
 
&nbs= p;

--0-832721499-1217257577=:17578-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2235 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47921 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2008 00:48:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2008 00:48:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.182) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2008 00:48:11 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m34so3089207wag.10 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:48:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.177.1 with SMTP id z1mr5613134wae.226.1217292491462; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:48:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:48:11 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_30619_6542875.1217292491459" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Happy 3rd Birthday, SWG! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=1Xu382gU1i9Ya4BPHEnuvyyC_yHZvpx3GjdsShd9tIP91TicsVOf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_30619_6542875.1217292491459-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2236 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31481 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2008 01:05:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2008 01:05:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2008 01:05:22 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id r.c61.300d9738 (42809) for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:05:21 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1217293521" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy 3rd Birthday, SWG! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=0HzLv_R-6Wnb58BpCGsUHsFhJbPe3TgqqclsBUQXv3hSLm8YE96W X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1217293521 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't think I have to tell you how much I love this group, its spirit, its membership, and its tolerance and inclusiveness, and the challenges and inspiration presented by those who participate in it on every level. Oshun **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------------------------1217293521 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I don't think I h= ave to tell you how much I love this group, its spirit, its membership, an= d its tolerance and inclusiveness, and the challenges and inspiration=  presented by those who participate in it on every level.
=
 
Oshun



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-------------------------------1217293521-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2237 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39682 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2008 22:58:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2008 22:58:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n52c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.186) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2008 22:58:28 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n52.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2008 22:58:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2008 22:58:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2008 22:58:28 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:58:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: What have you done in Middle-earth? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=fp-COoR-5HHcMUhv-TcARTa5Ay028vTVeXOkABM4K0-igqLFOQ X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic Just to check if you've forgotten about me completely. ;-) There was this = meme at lj: "Bold what you've done in your life." With some 200 options. = Now I present: "What have you done in Middle-earth?" http://juno-magic.fa= ncrone.net/blog/2008/07/31/what-have-you-done-in-middle-eart\ h Enjoy! Ch= eers, Juno oooOooo "At any given moment you have the power to say: This i= s not how the story is going to end." - Christine Mason Miller From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2238 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70821 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2008 15:00:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2008 15:00:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.180) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2008 15:00:18 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f31so489457pyh.20 for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:00:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.124.12 with SMTP id w12mr11718081wac.210.1217602815133; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:00:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:00:15 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5821_25714773.1217602815143" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: August 2008 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=QAmJa_5AltUNFDB-UACbGWnov5EJOKtZ1jRg-qdzZYUgAieuqzKX X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_5821_25714773.1217602815143-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2239 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54104 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2008 17:19:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2008 17:19:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n51a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.145) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2008 17:19:22 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n51.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2008 17:19:22 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2008 17:19:22 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2008 17:19:22 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:19:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: What have you done in Middle-earth? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=i5MShk8_7TUg3j6GBkuL36p6_UQzCqbiXhfrn7wSWofhHeg4y9O7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Here's my take on it: http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/214226.html Da= wn --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "JunoMagic" wrote: > > Just to check if you've forgotten about me completely. ;-= ) > > There was this meme at lj: "Bold what you've done in your life." > = > With some 200 options. > > Now I present: > > "What have you done in Mi= ddle-earth?" > > http://juno-magic.fancrone.net/blog/2008/07/31/what-have-= you-done-in-middle-eart\ > h From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2240 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91616 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2008 17:34:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2008 17:34:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.28) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2008 17:34:11 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so597617ywe.19 for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:34:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.151.155.5 with SMTP id h5mr3616714ybo.241.1217612051081; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:34:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.150.154.16 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:34:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <998429f80808011034v3ae697c9l42c5cba44c2cc371@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:34:11 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] August 2008 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=EMS-qr7RB4KaFaWUNKXsg94igy5MReZDoB-hh5g2W6b1naZbqoWlnQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Thank you for putting together this newsletter. I love the Akallabeth, and = so was delighted to see so many recommendations. In honor of the Akallabet= h in August, I have reposted a Numenor-centric drabble series of mine at SW= G. While the series is not new, it is new to SWG, and I hope it inspires so= me of you to write more stories about the many dramatic events of the Akall= abeth. Of Numenor That Was http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive= /home/viewstory.php?sid=3D368 We are told in the Akallabeth that, in the l= ast years of Numenor, Sauron encouraged the Numenoreans to make human sacri= fices to Morgoth. This is the story of the last sacrifice before the Downfa= ll. Marta On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > Hi, everyone, > > The newsletter for August has been post= ed on our website and on our LJ. > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g/news/august2008.php > > http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/= 124597.html > > This month, we turn our attention to the Second Age with an= Akallab=EAth > challenge. [snip] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2241 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65955 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2008 07:02:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Aug 2008 07:02:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.186) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Aug 2008 07:02:30 -0000 X-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so713029nfh.42 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:02:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.210.125.7 with SMTP id x7mr10536746ebc.184.1218524546286; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:02:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.210.76.4 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <511ea890808120002h3418eef2xc00d702d8d42e02c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:02:26 -0500 To: HaldirLovers , littlebalrog@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: Thrill of the Chase (PG) complete X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=dKkMxn4z9WZvpp8Vew_mrhkrzC_gktQJOdrXF9ufBHLkS7f1_Q0 X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex Title: Thrill of the Chase Author: Zhie Rating: PG? Summary: Celegorm hunts= . Archive: Phoenix =96 http://phoenix.zhie.us Notes: Written for the JFA Ch= allenge #11; Bunniverse compatible. Disclaimer: Based on the writings of JR= R Tolkien, which are his, and not mine. I just feed the elves cheesecake a= nd they feed me these stories. "Stop!" Six of seven horses were jerked b= ack by their riders. The seventh slowed his hooves on his own accord, much= to the disappointment of his master. "Why are we stopping? We nearly had= him cornered," pointed out Celegorm as he brought his mount back to join t= he others in the hunting party. "You know how dangerous it is to ride into= that part of the forest. We would need to dismount," said Maedhros. Celeg= orm threaded his fingers together as he settled them on the pommel and lean= ed forward around the side of his horse's neck. "Are we all too lazy this = afternoon to follow the fox on foot?" "Some of us did not come prepared to= track on the ground," Fingon said quietly. His sister did not seem to agr= ee with him from the expression she wore, but from the clothes she was wear= ing it was obvious he was making reference to her. Fingolfin seemed to tol= erate his daughter's desire to cavort with her cousins (provided either Fin= gon or Turgon was along to chaperone), but he would be less than happy to h= ave her return home with muddied slippers and a torn dress. "None of us ca= me prepared for that," corrected Maedhros. He was flanked by Caranthir and= Maglor, both impassive, as if waiting for the faceoff between their brothe= rs that was guaranteed to come. Finrod made a hasty attempt to stall the i= nevitable. "There was that deer herd Caranthir saw the trail for earlier."= "We will never catch them now," argued Celegorm. "Those tracks were fres= h," said Caranthir. "We would have no difficulty finding them again." "Wh= o wants to hunt deer?" Celegorm sat back up in his saddle and rose up as h= e stood in the stirrups. "Really. Deer hunting? How clich=E9. Are we all= afraid of the little fox in the woods?" "Grow up, Celegorm. We are not g= oing to follow you in there." Maedhros turned his horse and looked to Caran= thir. "Can you lead us back to the tracks you found earlier?" Caranthir n= odded and the group began to turn away from the dense part of the woods. "= Cowards!" shouted Celegorm, but only Caranthir flinched. Celegorm settled = back down again with his arms crossed over his chest. The party moved away= slowly, as if expecting he would need to catch up. "As if I need any of th= e rest of you," he added. As he grabbed the reins and tried to get his mou= nt to enter the forest where the fox had disappeared, his horse reared and = snorted. "Celegorm!" Maedhros broke from the rest of the group and rode b= ack to his brother. "I am not going to stop you from foolishly going in th= ere, but you are not subjecting this poor creature to your whims." "Who wi= ll stop me. You?" Maedhros sidestepped his horse closer and lowered his v= oice. "If you really wish to continue to make an ass of yourself in front = of Aredhel, please do. It amuses us all. But your horse is staying here."= Celegorm clenched his jaw. His gaze flitted momentarily toward the other= s who had slowed to a stop. Some were watching them, some were purposely t= urned away. Among those watching were Aredhel and her brother, who whisper= ed to her with his eyes on the scene. "Celegorm?" With a lazy tilt of his= head, Celegorm acknowledged his brother, yet said nothing. "I asked you a= question, little brother." Celegorm discretely watched a breeze blow the = hem of Aredhel's dress, revealing delicate ankles and shapely calves. As s= he leaned down and fought to keep the fabric under control, he smirked to h= imself. "Stop staring at your cousin's breasts and answer my question." "= What question?" Celegorm grinned. "Wait, you must have been looking, too.= " Maedhros rolled his eyes. "Certainly not. Now, are you coming with us,= or are you leaving your horse with me?" Celegorm cleared his throat. "My= lady!" he shouted, and Aredhel raised her head and looked at him dead on. = "Do you think I can still catch our furry friend in yonder woods?" he call= ed out. "None of us can catch him now," Aredhel responded. "None, but I."= Celegorm dismounted and held out the reins of his horse for Maedhros to t= ake. "Are we still to gather at father's house this eve?" "Aye," answered= Maedhros warily. "I shall see you then," promised Celegorm as he removed = his quiver. He passed this, his bow, and his sheathed sword up to Maedhros = as well. "Just how do you intend to hunt without any weapons?" prodded Mae= dhros as Celegorm stretched his arms behind his back. "What weapons does o= ur fox friend have? Teeth, claws." Celegorm grinned and flexed the finger= s of his right hand. "Fair is fair." "You are crazy," muttered Maedhros a= s Celegorm sprinted into the forest. 'Crazy,' thought Celegorm as he ran t= hrough the forest, dodging trees and leaping fallen logs. 'I am not crazy,= I am fierce! I am fire, like father. I am a frenzied force.' Celegorm p= aused and took in a deep breath of air in the shadows of the trees. His ey= es flitted about in search of tracks while his ears twitched and listened f= or the sound of red-furred paws in the underbrush. It hit his nose first: = the scent of his prey, and he crouched and gathered together the whole of h= is senses, waiting until he knew without doubt which way to go next. He wa= s off again, a sprint like a rabbit =96 smooth and silent, swift and precis= e. Again, he stopped, and hunched to the ground. Heart pounded, chest hea= ved, nostrils flared, but he made not one sound. Another sign was given, th= is one more telling =96 a tuft of red fur caught low on a trunk. The fox w= as moving fast. The hunter was closing in. Celegorm gave chase once more.= It was unexpected when Celegorm stopped again that he saw his prey before= him. The fox had crawled beneath a raspberry bush, where it was now crouc= hed low with tail against the ground. Celegorm breathed steadily, slow and= silent, as he withdrew his hunting knife. It was the only weapon he had k= ept with him when he had given Maedhros the others. It was all he needed. = With only this knife, he had once climbed a tree and dropped down upon a d= eer, felling it with one strike. The fox was smaller, and the large knife = was, Celegorm admitted, overkill. The small creature yelped once as Celego= rm's hand closed around its tail. With one quick slash of his wrist, it wa= s done. The fox was frozen in place, eyed fixed upon Celegorm. The elf sl= ackened his grip, and the fox darted away. "Now why, after all that, did y= ou let him go?" An imposing figure astride a pure white horse seemed to ha= ve appeared from nowhere. Such was the way of the Valar. Celegorm smiled.= He stood and sheathed his knife before he opened his other hand to reveal= the few hairs he had cut from the end of the fox's tail moments earlier. = "I caught him, and have the proof of it. But if I kill him today, he cannot= be chased tomorrow." "Ah. So, it is not the end of the hunt which inspir= es you to partake, but the hunt itself." "It is the thrill of the chase," = admitted Celegorm. "As my brothers have oft pointed out, I chase many thin= gs I would not know what to do with if I caught them. What would one do wi= th a fox?" "Skin it," suggested Orome. "Dreadful end for such a beautiful= creature," Celegorm decided. "Nay, I would rather let him go and chase hi= m tomorrow again." "And what if another hunter were to catch your fox to k= ill and skin it?" "Then I should like to be the one to catch and kill and = skin the hunter who dares." Celegorm said this easily enough for it to sou= nd idle, but his expression read otherwise. "I have less need of his fur t= han he does. There are times to hunt to kill, but to kill only to kill see= ms senseless to me." Orome dismounted with grace and patted his horse's ne= ck. "It is not often I see one hunting alone in my woods." "I hunt not fo= r fun as my companions do. I hunt for it is my life; I consider myself not= one who simply hunts, but a hunter, like yourself." "Do you indeed?" Oro= me smiled. "Your confidence is to be admired. Where is your horse?" "As I= said, I came alone." "Your hounds?" "I have none," admitted Celegorm una= shamedly. "My father and eldest brother own a few, but I use them very rar= ely though permitted to as I wish. Their loyalty is not to me." "A loyal = hound is a great advantage to any hunter." Orome had been circling Celegor= m. The hunter should have felt more like the prey now, but Celegorm stayed= unbelievably calm under the scrutiny of the Vala. "Your values are noble,= and such thoughts should be rewarded. You would benefit from such a compan= ion as I might offer." Celegorm lifted one brow in interest. "It sounds l= ike some trick," Celegorm dared to say. "I offer only that which I have wi= thin my power to give." Orome whistled, and a large dog arguably the size = of some small equine bounded up dutifully to his master. "I have grown tir= ed of hunting as much as my hound desires. You, my young friend, can offer= him the thrill of the chase he so loves. Hunt in my woods, rest in my hou= se, and make yourself welcome here in my home. You are indeed a hunter, Ce= legorm son of Feanor, but I can teach you what you should know to become a = great hunter." --- "What are you going to do, live in his woods now?" que= stioned Caranthir. They were all gathered in the garden between the house = and the forge. Celegorm had returned much later than the rest, with a bett= er story than the one the others had of futilely wandering in search for de= er. "No," answered Celegorm, who was settled on the ground. He lounged be= side Huan, whose furry body spread out across the grass and offered somethi= ng for Celegorm to rest against. "I plan to keep coming and going as I ple= ase where I please, just as I always have." "Only now, with a big furry ho= rse," added Maedhros. Celegorm glared. "Huan is a dog, not a horse." "Ho= w can you tell?" asked Finrod. "Under all that fur, he could be a cat for = all you know." "He is a dog," insisted Celegorm, and Huan barked in affirm= ation. "Did you pick out such a silly name, or did Orome do that?" asked C= aranthir. "There is nothing silly about the name Huan. You are only jealo= us that I have a huge talking dog, and you do not." Maglor laughed. "If h= e is a talking dog, why does he keep barking?" "Maybe because none of you = are worth his time to speak to," answered Celegorm. "Sure. That must be i= t." Most everyone laughed as Celegorm sulked and muttered to himself. One= of the others in the circle moved away from the laughter and joined his br= other on the ground. "I believe your dog can talk," said Curufin to Celego= rm. "You need not prove it to me; I believe you." Celegorm nodded and smi= led. -end- -- Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http= ://phoenix.zhie.us They're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2242 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99366 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2008 16:14:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Aug 2008 16:14:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.236) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Aug 2008 16:14:20 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 68so2300800wri.15 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:14:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.73.5 with SMTP id v5mr13065771aga.43.1218557660273; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?76.189.129.90? ( [76.189.129.90]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 30sm4187682hso.11.2008.08.12.09.14.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <48A1B6DB.2060607@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:14:19 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: beta request from Mantida X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=E_--CXdsj-iLyYgSVkQAu-GOF7tXfk-DJzyJBYSfyeEJrId15TMQFg X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hey guys, I received a request the other day from an author named Mantida to beta her stories. I would love to beta her, as she's one of my favorite authors and one of the very few dwarf authors, but RL is keeping me from taking on any new commitments. I've explained the situation to her and we agreed we'd try again in a few months; however, in the meantime I offered to post here to help her find a short-term beta. The story she needs beta'd at the moment is ~2,500 words and is set in Doriath before the incident with the Nauglamir. She told me that is a non-native speaker and is worried about language issues. She seems to respect the role of a good beta in the writing process. If you are interested in helping her, please email her at mazop(.at.)poczta(.dot.)onet(.dot.)pl . The same RL stuff that will keep me from betaing will keep me from spending a lot of time at email, so please, if you're interested, email her directly. Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer Mantida. I really enjoy her writing and would love to see more of it. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2243 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81925 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2008 19:26:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Aug 2008 19:26:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.188) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Aug 2008 19:26:34 -0000 X-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c10so380581nfd.44 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:26:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.210.71.11 with SMTP id t11mr1834917eba.105.1218741993009; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:26:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.210.76.4 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <511ea890808141226x2ccdc5cw5b9107e94d267cff@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:26:32 -0500 To: HaldirLovers , littlebalrog@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: What Were You Thinking? (PG?) complete [Celegorm, et al] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=CCnGgpy4b7ESwiKxXyKnygI-SGz7N0o-RBPNdRfxZ7z9hcL3QDA X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex Title: What Were You Thinking? Author: Zhie Rating: PG? Summary: Celegorm h= urts. (Just seemed appropriate, if 'Thrill of the Chase' was 'Celegorm hunt= s', and this, the next perhaps in a series of ficlets about him? He chased= my other muses off=85) Archive: Phoenix =96 http://phoenix.zhie.us Notes: = Written for the JFA Challenge #11; Bunniverse compatible. Disclaimer: Based= on the writings of JRR Tolkien, which are his, and not mine. I just feed = the elves cheesecake and they feed me these stories. Maedhros stepped over= a half-filled crate that blocked his path and kicked aside another. Diffe= rent parts of the house were in different states of chaos =96 somehow, the = stairways and halls had become a dumping ground for unwanted items, and the= landings held copious amounts of storage containers. Upon finally reachin= g his destination, Maedhros had to give the door of the room he wanted to e= nter a good shove with his shoulder, for the clutter on the other side bare= ly wished to move. "What were you thinking?" he asked as soon as he manage= d to gain entrance. The door was shut again. "I asked the same," responde= d Maglor, who was taking up residence on the foot of the bed. It seemed ev= eryone still had packing to do except for Maglor, who had already taken up = the task of boxing whatever he thought they might need from the common area= s =96 no doubt a job their mother would have seen to, had she not already g= iven up on their father and gone back to her own father's home. "He refuse= s to give any of us an answer." Curufin was half-heartedly helping to pack= what was in the room, undoubtedly avoiding his own chore. Caranthir was p= erched on the windowsill, looking out over the garden with a miserable expr= ession on his face. It had already come up twice that Caranthir had consid= ered staying, and the fact that their grandfather was to come with them int= o exile was the only thing that prevented Caranthir from too much fuss. On= the floor with piles of clothing surrounding him, Celegorm appeared to hav= e ignored his older brothers until he said, "I apologize if I have things o= n my mind other than blacksmithing and music." "I think the music referenc= e is intended for you, Laure," said Caranthir from the window. "Indeed," r= eplied Maglor, and he smiled slightly. With a heavy sigh, Maedhros careful= ly stepped over the heavy thumping tail of Huan and managed to make his way= to the bed without too much disruption. He shoved aside a pile of books i= n order to make room for himself. "People are talking, Celegorm." "You me= an, with their mouths? As in, speaking and conversing with one another?" = Celegorm's mock surprise made Curufin laugh. It always did. "You have put= everyone in a tight spot over this. If Uncle Fingolfin says no, it looks = like he is doing so just to spite father in all of this," explained Maedhro= s. "There is nothing that says he has to say no. In fact, I most certainl= y hope he says yes!" The last bit came out as almost a growl, and Huan rais= ed his head in concern for his master. Maedhros sat up straight, not about= to appear passive in the matter. "What are you going to do if he consents = to you? Court her? Publicly? Announce an engagement? Bring her to Formen= os with us? Bind to her?" "That would be the point in asking her father fo= r her hand in marriage," replied Celegorm tersely. He stopped folding the = items he was taking with him and began to shove shirts and trousers sloppil= y into the wooden chest. "I thought that was the proper way of it =96 much= better than simply riding off with her and not telling anyone." "And what= then? When cousin and cousin bind, and through that union beget children,= how will everyone talk then? Celegorm, I have always thought you a little= mad, but I never knew you to be insane!" "I am not insane," corrected Cel= egorm quite calmly. "I am in love. As for your notion of children, be well= advised of the fact I will not be the one to make any of you an uncle, nor= do I myself intend to be a father." Maglor laughed, and though he had int= ended to stay silent, said, "That sort of thing just happens, you know. Lo= ok at our cousin Turgon. He certainly had no intention of what happened th= ere." Celegorm shook his head, but did consider Maglor's words. Privately= , Celegorm tended to think the rest of his brothers were lesser copies of h= is father =96 blacksmiths, every one of them, except for Maglor. With Maglo= r, you could have a conversation without it leading back to soldering or me= tallurgy or a hundred other boring things one could do with fire and steel.= And yet, Maglor did not seem to understand either. "If that is the prima= ry concern that everyone has, then I would take her as wife and treat her a= s a beloved sister." "How long would that last?" mumbled Caranthir. "A we= ek?" "A day," added Maedhros. There were chuckles and smirks again, laugh= ter that stung and caused Celegorm to hastily rise and throw the tunic in h= is hands onto the ground. "Enough, from all of you!" he shouted, and his b= rothers became deathly silent and focused upon him. "You mock me, because = I am in love. Something as sacred as this, and you scorn me! I did not ask= it to be my cousin, but by Eru's will, she is my cousin, and I shall despi= se all who stand in my way." "Celegorm!" The voice of Feanor carried down= the hallway and through the closed door. All including Celegorm listened.= "You have... a visitor." "Father is unhappy," mumbled Maedhros. "It mus= t be Uncle Fingolfin who has come." "He always liked Aredhel," added Maglo= r in agreement. The mention of her name made Celegorm swallow hard, and he= crossed the room without saying anything to his brothers. His walk down t= he hall seemed longer than it had ever before. He passed the sitting room = and saw his father on a large chair, the only thing left in the room. Even = the carpets had been rolled up and set in the forge to be taken with them. = Feanor sat in the darkness, holding a small glass in one hand. The bottle= was in the other. Celegorm cast his eyes down and walked swiftly, knowing= his father was watching and that he would have to explain himself later, o= ne way or the other. As predicted, it was their uncle waiting on the walk = that led to the house. Celegorm lifted his head after a steadying breath a= nd walked as nobly as he knew how, with slow and patient steps, reminding h= imself as he had when he had first gone to speak to his uncle that it was b= etter to look like a husband than a hunter if asking someone for their daug= hter's hand in marriage. There was an unreadable expression on Fingolfin's= face, and it stayed there as Celegorm waited. It seemed even longer than = the walk down the hallway; a test, perhaps, thought Celegorm as a dozen pos= sible ways for his uncle to say no filled his head. When Fingolfin opened = his mouth to speak, Celegorm held his breath. "We are being watched." Cel= egorm turned his head and found no one behind him. He looked around the ot= her way, and then following his uncle's line of vision noticed Caranthir, s= till sitting in the window of his bedroom above them, only now Curufin and = Maglor were standing behind him, and Maedhros behind them. Without discuss= ion, Fingolfin walked away from the house. Celegorm saved the vicious glar= e he wanted to give to his brothers for later and followed. When they reac= hed the road, too far to be heard by anyone in the house, Fingolfin made a = motion with his hand. Celegorm came past the high fence that surrounded hi= s father's land and saw that all three of Fingolfin's sons had traveled wit= h him. Neither Fingon nor Argon looked affected by the situation one way o= r the other =96 in fact, Fingon looked somewhat sympathetic. Turgon, on th= e other hand, looked positively livid. The expression as the three brother= s rode a little ways down the road gave some hope to Celegorm. "Now that w= e have some privacy, I will address the request you have made." Fingolfin = sighed, and it puzzled Celegorm as his uncle paused and seemed almost to re= think whatever answer he had intended. "Aredhel is very special to me, and = it pleased me that you were kind enough to come to me as is proper." There= was another pause, and Celegorm closed his eyes. The news was not good, a= nd his uncle tried to find the easiest way to say what needed to be said. = In the end, there was no good way of doing so. "I cannot consent to your r= equest of courtship." The pain, greater than expected, tore through him. = Celegorm set his jaw; not one to cry, he nodded and kept his eyes closed. = It was what he had been expecting. "Not yet." Celegorm continued to nod, = but now he looked at his uncle with questioning eyes. Fingolfin took a ste= p closer and set his hands upon Celegorm's shoulders. "I need to know if y= ou love her, or if this is some folly." "If I did not love her, it would n= ot ache my heart so to obey your order." Then Celegorm, proud son of Feano= r, penitently lowered his eyes and begged. "Please reconsider. I need her= ." "Come to me when you have returned from Formenos and I shall answer to = you, yes or no, at that time." Fingolfin withdrew. Grief choked Celegorm'= s words as he continued to plead. "I will be lost there without her!" "Th= en go not into exile with your father," suggested Fingolfin. "Or is it tha= t the love for your father is greater than that of your beloved?" "It is d= ifferent; you must know that!" Celegorm steadied himself, for Fingolfin's s= ons were ready and not so far away, and had probably heard him shout. "It = is different," he repeated. "To him, I have sworn an oath." Fingolfin nod= ded gravely. "And for that reason do I hold back my decision. You must un= derstand that marriage is an oath of another kind, and I am not sure whatev= er oath you and your brothers have sworn to is the sort which can coexist h= appily with the bliss of being newly wed." Again Fingolfin stepped forward= and set one hand this time upon Celegorm. "Use this time to understand yo= ur heart and your mind, and when you return, seek me again and tell me not = that you love my daughter, but why you love her, and I shall consider givin= g you my consent." Celegorm did not answer, nor did he nod. He watched as= Fingolfin stepped away, and eventually took the reins of his horse and mou= nted. "On the day I return, I shall seek your counsel uncle, but know this:= Even if you deny her to me, there is no other I shall love as I love her."= Fingolfin gave his nephew one last look before guiding his horse around a= nd spurring her to join his sons at the bottom of the hill. Celegorm watche= d them leave, and as he followed their path, he noted that they were riding= toward a lone figure upon horseback. The intangible wounds freshly scrape= d into his soul bled anew as he watched her from afar. His first thought w= as how cruel his uncle was, to bring her with them and leave her so far awa= y where he could not speak to her and saw her only as something so distorte= d and unattainable. Then his thoughts changed to those of reason, and rati= onally he convinced himself that it was what could be offered now =96 she w= as not shut away from him, only a goal that would be difficult, yet not imp= ossible to reach. She was there, she had come, but she had stayed safely a= way. Had she arrived with her father, Celegorm was certain he would not ha= ve known the calm and patience he had. He waited until they reached her, a= nd when he saw the others turn their horses and Fingolfin raise his arm to = him in farewell from afar, Celegorm realized it had been a test of some sor= t. Celegorm raised his own arm into the air, and lowered it as they disapp= eared out of sight. As he numbly returned to the house, he noted the windo= w of his room was yet open, though no one was peering out of it. There was= a glow of light, and voices which he heard as he approached. He entered t= he house quietly, said nothing to his father (still in the sitting room, pe= rhaps sleeping now, for he appeared relaxed and had his eyes shut), and mad= e his way through the obstacles on the steps and in the hall. The mess beh= ind his door was still there to cause difficulty in entering. His guests n= ow numbered six, and all silenced when Celegorm entered. Huan barked at th= e sudden quiet, and upon seeing his master, flopped over onto his back in h= opes of a belly rub. The impact shook anything in the room not bolted down= . "What did he say?" asked Curufin as Celegorm dug out the area behind the= door in order to shove it open the rest of the way. Huan gave a little wh= ine and beat his tail against the floor. Celegorm looked around, all eyes = focused on him. Even Huan was looking up with some sort of expectation =96= well, that was what one got when one owned a talking dog who understood ev= erything you said. "Some watchdog I have," said Celegorm as he faced the wa= ll and inspected a crack that had been there for centuries. "He barks at h= is master, and he lets all of you in without warning." "He barked at us, t= oo," said Ambarussa in defense of Huan. "I thought he was a hunting dog," = Ambarto added. Celegorm continued to push around the items he had found be= hind the door, his back to his brothers. "So he is. In that case, I wish = to be alone with my hunting dog." Some began to protest, but Maedhros note= d the way Celegorm kept turned away, the quick swipe of his sleeve across h= is face. "I think it is time we return to our own rooms. Father wants to = leave tomorrow and will not be happy if we are not properly packed." Maedh= ros ushered the others from the room as Celegorm skillfully avoided eye-con= tact. Just before leaving, Maedhros stood at the doorway and asked, "Are yo= u going to be alright?" Celegorm shook his head. "I still want to be left= alone," he said before Maedhros could offer his usual 'eldest brother supp= ort'. Maedhros nodded and closed the door. -- Tales from Valinor... they= 're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're always after me p= urple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2244 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 68625 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2008 23:26:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2008 23:26:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2c.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.233) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2008 23:26:13 -0000 Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n2.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2008 23:26:13 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2008 23:26:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2008 23:26:12 -0000 X-Sender: nath815@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33409 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2008 23:25:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2008 23:25:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n11.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.138) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2008 23:25:40 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n11.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2008 23:25:40 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2008 23:25:40 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2008 23:25:40 -0000 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:25:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "nath815" Subject: August challenge X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=356224648; y=yrQ3XDFoyT7yLYIErdjJlhTq6_QLvA_CPEvK6jXnS1p1ug X-Yahoo-Profile: nath815 X-eGroups-Approved-By: tarion_anarore via web; 15 Aug 2008 23:26:12 -0000 I was thinking of submitting a tale for the August challenge, but it is a = story I have just written on another site, but it does meet the challenge = quite well in my opinion, all about the faithful, but would anyone mind if= I copied and pasted it, with a little more proofreading? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2245 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48994 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2008 13:46:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2008 13:46:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2008 13:46:02 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j40so856242wah.15 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 2008 06:46:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.72.1 with SMTP id u1mr3660168waa.159.1218894362355; Sat, 16 Aug 2008 06:46:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Aug 2008 06:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 09:46:02 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_104625_4398198.1218894362353" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] August challenge X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=eLTA6lhyr6uKKdTX4aG-47RqUzeiMhRgQICeUhJE8b33Zy8er_Wj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_104625_4398198.1218894362353-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2246 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71184 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2008 13:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Aug 2008 13:26:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.102) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 13:26:15 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 24077 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Aug 2008 13:26:14 -0000 X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:26:14 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:26:14 -0700 (PDT) To: leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild , TwinsOfElrond , aragornangst@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, SoA , Julie_Fianna_Archive@yahoogroups.com, ElvenLords@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, Silmfics@yahoogroups.com, Waters_of_Cuivienen@yahoogroups.com, Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, aragorn-legolas@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1584289835-1219065974=:23431" Message-ID: <519064.23431.qm@web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: New contest X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=pcn0CgsqziY7ROvRw81OHN0F5dIBFbkDXkQITCM_NErVwuLoAw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1584289835-1219065974=:23431 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please join! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest =A0 = =A0 ~~**~~ If you feel so empty So used up, so let down If you feel so = angry Just get up Let's start a riot, a riot Let's start a riot Three = Days Grace - Riot =A0 --0-1584289835-1219065974=:23431 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Please join!
 

 
~~**~~
If you feel so empty
So used up, so let down
If you feel so angry
Just get up

Let's start a riot, a riot
Let's start a riot
Three Days Grace - Riot
 

--0-1584289835-1219065974=:23431-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2247 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93564 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2008 21:42:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Aug 2008 21:42:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f12.google.com) (209.85.217.12) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 21:42:27 -0000 X-Received: by gxk5 with SMTP id 5so4511292gxk.7 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:42:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.151.27.15 with SMTP id e15mr10438242ybj.41.1219095746588; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:42:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.150.156.11 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:42:21 -0700 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_121904_17188735.1219095741443" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: "Jane Fink" Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fic:_Tale_of_the_Ancient_Mariner_Voron?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?w=EB/Glorfindel...etc_Rating:_PG-NC17_1/3?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=bXyfcJmTrsvSNsieNk5j9S3KEMmwgd7Va1EBYwv5nuqX X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 ------=_Part_121904_17188735.1219095741443-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2248 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6907 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2008 17:44:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Aug 2008 17:44:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f30.google.com) (209.85.217.30) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2008 17:44:03 -0000 X-Received: by gxk11 with SMTP id 11so5791372gxk.5 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:44:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.182.1 with SMTP id e1mr6951736waf.154.1219167837488; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:43:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:43:57 -0400 To: SWG Cc: "Bobby Walls-Thumma" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7994_12681393.1219167837482" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Weapons and Armor Project--We're Halfway There! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=jSWdzd_mxvb9hqu0_YGZbf43DzDdo95MKRX4Otlgh5GYnl4Bpz0T X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_7994_12681393.1219167837482-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2249 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51343 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 17:09:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 17:09:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.182) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 17:09:28 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id x19so346840pyg.24 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:09:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.150.1 with SMTP id x1mr1267061wad.71.1219424968119; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:09:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:09:28 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_68101_12698005.1219424968111" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=jorH2Keh3qV4pHVahtoD-C4HP_L8_9ZmlNozp8f3EMeuJMtemez8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_68101_12698005.1219424968111-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2250 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26291 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 17:13:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 17:13:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 17:13:39 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id r.d4c.2b6f7700 (48552) for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:13:40 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1219425220" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=bXcNa1VQrwY9SDn194dKHhe8lQiSKMfFCx99J6qSVDlMxs-eMs1i X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1219425220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry. Not volunteering right now, but just a comment. One of the problems I have had with such listings in the past is the proliferation of broken links after a short period of time. They do require maintenance. I am sure you know that. You are a much more practical/hands-on person than I am. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------------------------1219425220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Sorry. Not volunt= eering right now, but just a comment. One of the problems I have had with = such listings in the past is the proliferation of broken links after a sho= rt period  of time. They do require maintenance. I am sure you know t= hat. You are a much more practical/hands-on person than I am.
=


It's only a deal if it's where yo= u want to go. Find your travel deal here.
-------------------------------1219425220-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2251 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25078 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 17:20:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 17:20:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.182) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 17:20:56 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j5so243429wah.18 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.184.7 with SMTP id h7mr1244310waf.183.1219425656347; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:20:56 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_68322_10462212.1219425656346" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=fs9y9V-YOCN8xMU9JllKitEVQeg4-tu5hVC7x7EUq0vHo8uQZ3Xx X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_68322_10462212.1219425656346-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2252 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14416 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 17:28:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 17:28:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 17:28:47 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id r.c38.3c7552d5 (48552) for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:28:32 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1219426112" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ndthPOh5U4KaAAvr9aqO5cIL744qPdHcUgubfBZUztGkFdmQO9fL X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1219426112 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As soon as I clicked on the page, I saw you had that near the top. Also noticed that you have no contact for Elffetish. As soon as one clicks "enter," there is contact info on the first inside page: Claudio, _il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk_ (mailto:il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------------------------1219426112 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
As soon as I clic= ked on the page, I saw you had that near the top.
 
=
Also noticed that you have no contact for Elffetish. As soon as = one clicks "enter," there is contact info on the first inside page: Claudi= o, il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk
 



It= 's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal <= A title=3D"http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=3Daoltrv00050000000= 047" href=3D"http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=3Daoltrv000500000= 00047" target=3D"_blank">here.
-------------------------------1219426112-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2253 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48835 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 17:38:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 17:38:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 17:38:00 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j4so221902wah.19 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:38:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.195.19 with SMTP id s19mr1262979waf.189.1219426680428; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:38:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:38:00 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_68579_24051162.1219426680428" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=foMMqUH_UTwukxTcKOeKnH1siGL5zNsgYhHXXn5id9wV0NESkXfS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_68579_24051162.1219426680428-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2254 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80095 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 17:39:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 17:39:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 17:39:58 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id r.d4e.353783bd (48552) for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:39:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:39:56 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1219426796" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=vLk-amzB7Jdj2LccbdqRj93JT6IJ4GP_noO2vL_qIUzU61XrJwL2 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1219426796 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/22/2008 12:38:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: So if Claudio or anyone else whose site is listed but not their personal contact wants that contact listed, please just let me know and I'll add it. :) I'll try to remember to mention that to him, but it is the listed contact info on the site itself. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------------------------1219426796 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 8/22/2008 12:38:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.co= m writes:
So if Claudio or anyone else = whose site is listed but not their personal contact wants that co= ntact listed, please just let me know and I'll add it. :)

=
I'll try to remember to mention that t= o him, but it is the listed contact info on the site itself.
<= BR>

It's only a deal if it's where you= want to go. Find your travel deal here.
-------------------------------1219426796-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2255 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58635 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 17:49:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 17:49:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.156) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 17:49:40 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 36so297163yxh.4 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:49:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.74.1 with SMTP id b1mr1284099wal.169.1219427379112; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:49:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:49:39 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_68728_31770654.1219427379095" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Ha_lWU-CeBmA3E2pT_oE80zDa1ecH_kkVT4Lh37n0N5599dGgleP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_68728_31770654.1219427379095-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2256 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24533 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 18:21:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 18:21:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 18:21:52 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 87110 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Aug 2008 18:21:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _vrfIu4VM1msrfO.NySVqrixapqD7quczrQ.oybIM1RAw__iIxNi33Fo9M9ImFpMsQ-- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:21:50 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218.2 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:21:50 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-858143445-1219429310=:85527" Message-ID: <843947.85527.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=JpStnJN6gXugTucts90eMMBG9bADtVcYRjOTTIVDvxGYMQjNrw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-858143445-1219429310=:85527 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for putting ALEC on there without me having to ask!! =A0 =A0 ~~*= *~~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed o= f dark? --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:= From: Dawn Felagund Subject: [SilmarillionWriter= sGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing To: "SWG" Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 1:09 PM Hi, every= one, The past few months, my co-mods, volunteers, and I have been working = to get the Reference Library revised and updated so that we can resume coll= ecting essays and resources that we think will be useful, interesting, or j= ust plain entertaining. One of the references we've been working on is the = SWG Yellow Pages. The Yellow Pages are basically a listing of groups, even= ts, and websites that concern either the Tolkien fan community or the gener= al writing community. We've got about seventy groups and sites listed alrea= dy. You can check it out here: http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/r= eference/ yellowpages. php We realize that SWG is a highly specialized gro= up. Most of the people who belong to SWG are also interested in aspects of = Tolkien's world that don't apply readily to our mission, and so post their = work and participate in other groups as well as SWG. We are also a relative= ly small group and so recognize the difficulties that a small group faces w= hen trying to keep an active community in the shadow of groups with many hu= ndreds--even thousands!-- of members. And so the SWG Yellow Pages, we hope,= will serve two purposes. We hope that it will help connect our members wit= h groups that serve their interests where we do not. And we hope that it wi= ll draw some attention to smaller groups by placing them in the same space = and on equal ground with the large groups and archives that everyone alread= y knows. However, our work with this project is far from done. My comods a= nd I have put our heads together and gone scouring the Internet for the sev= enty-some groups that we have listed here, with some much-appreciated help = from others in the Tolkien community. But we know that this is far from a c= omplete listing. So we'd like to ask our members to help us too. If you ow= n a website or run a group that concerns Tolkien, writing, or fan culture, = we'd like to list your group. Please let us know so that we may add you! I= f you look through the listings and see that your favorite group or site is= not there, please tell us about it! You do not have to be the group's owne= r to add it to the listing. This is not just a listing for Silmarillion gr= oups and sites. If you run a Legolas fan site, we're just as interested in = that as a Feanorian discussion list. We have very few requirements for grou= ps that wish to be listed. The group should be somewhat active or have cont= ent available to the public or group members. The group cannot exist to ins= ult or mock authors (think Mary Sue sporking communities) . And, if the gro= up is accepting new members, it should have a reasonable membership criteri= a and not accept only the owner's friends, or if it's not accepting general= membership, it should provide something of use to the online public. The = guidelines for adding a group to the Yellow Pages, in much greater (and mor= e official-sounding! ) detail, are available here: http://www.silmaril lio= nwritersguild .org/reference/ joinyellowpages. php There is also a form to= use to alert us that you'd like to add a new listing the Yellow Pages. Or= , email our Reference Library at loremaster AT silmarillionwriters guild DO= T org if you have any questions (or if you wish to raid your favorites fold= er and don't want to send a new form for each one!) All the best, Dawn P= S--We are also looking for a volunteer to act as Yellow Pages Coordinator: = someone who will work specifically on developing this reference and keeping= it up-to-date. I will be sending out an email in the next few weeks about = volunteer positions that we have open, and will have more detail then. In t= he meantime, if you think you might be interested, please feel free to cont= act me privately or at the address above. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silm= arillionwri tersguild. org --0-858143445-1219429310=:85527 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Thanks for putting ALEC on there without me having to ask!!

 
 
~~**~~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?


--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing
To: "SWG"
Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 1:09 PM

Hi, everyone,

The past few months, my co-mods, volunteers, and I have been working to get the Reference Library revised and updated so that we can resume collecting essays and resources that we think will be useful, interesting, or just plain entertaining. One of the references we've been working on is the SWG Yellow Pages.

The Yellow Pages are basically a listing of groups, events, and websites that concern either the Tolkien fan community or the general writing community. We've got about seventy groups and sites listed already. You can check it out here:

http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/reference/ yellowpages. php

We realize that SWG is a highly specialized group. Most of the people who belong to SWG are also interested in aspects of Tolkien's world that don't apply readily to our mission, and so post their work and participate in other groups as well as SWG. We are also a relatively small group and so recognize the difficulties that a small group faces when trying to keep an active community in the shadow of groups with many hundreds--even thousands!-- of members. And so the SWG Yellow Pages, we hope, will serve two purposes. We hope that it will help connect our members with groups that serve their interests where we do not. And we hope that it will draw some attention to smaller groups by placing them in the same space and on equal ground with the large groups and archives that everyone already knows.

However, our work with this project is far from done. My comods and I have put our heads together and gone scouring the Internet for the seventy-some groups that we have listed here, with some much-appreciated help from others in the Tolkien community. But we know that this is far from a complete listing. So we'd like to ask our members to help us too.

If you own a website or run a group that concerns Tolkien, writing, or fan culture, we'd like to list your group. Please let us know so that we may add you!

If you look through the listings and see that your favorite group or site is not there, please tell us about it! You do not have to be the group's owner to add it to the listing.

This is not just a listing for Silmarillion groups and sites. If you run a Legolas fan site, we're just as interested in that as a Feanorian discussion list. We have very few requirements for groups that wish to be listed. The group should be somewhat active or have content available to the public or group members. The group cannot exist to insult or mock authors (think Mary Sue sporking communities) . And, if the group is accepting new members, it should have a reasonable membership criteria and not accept only the owner's friends, or if it's not accepting general membership, it should provide something of use to the online public.

The guidelines for adding a group to the Yellow Pages, in much greater (and more official-sounding! ) detail, are available here:

http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/reference/ joinyellowpages. php

There is also a form to use to alert us that you'd like to add a new listing the Yellow Pages.

Or, email our Reference Library at loremaster AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org if you have any questions (or if you wish to raid your favorites folder and don't want to send a new form for each one!)

All the best,

Dawn

PS--We are also looking for a volunteer to act as Yellow Pages Coordinator: someone who will work specifically on developing this reference and keeping it up-to-date. I will be sending out an email in the next few weeks about volunteer positions that we have open, and will have more detail then. In the meantime, if you think you might be interested, please feel free to contact me privately or at the address above.

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org

--0-858143445-1219429310=:85527-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2257 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61627 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 18:25:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 18:25:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.181) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 18:25:06 -0000 X-Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id w53so423177pyg.25 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:25:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.200.2 with SMTP id x2mr1371654waf.79.1219429505697; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:25:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:25:05 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <843947.85527.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_69319_2739927.1219429505683" References: <843947.85527.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wDI0jD0_msWgjSQBPUgDqVv31fkwwFCU5ru-CZvA9w0_mszk1Ry1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_69319_2739927.1219429505683-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2258 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64897 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 18:33:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 18:33:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 18:33:49 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 44806 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Aug 2008 18:33:49 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: rjHhAwgVM1nSRIAe.yRSY50AE3W8WaXmxXzNfHt6eaqruYx9GtspZ8QeK9q_E.199QQUhsAFEBGKiUM7px6T4gdCQgwFepLCG0.LVZkeKicOIO8WBQIo0lK2fscH33.wpjh.gsUK50Uff8siBJjl X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:33:48 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218.2 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:33:48 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <843947.85527.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-987755119-1219430028=:43843" Message-ID: <994119.43843.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=b_Mu-nILiRYFATUFwXXuxuIeZm72SWZ1Ymp4qbrOqfeLBSoOOQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-987755119-1219430028=:43843 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is one contest site - http://teitho.waking-vision.com/modules.php?name= =3DIntern&file=3Dindex =A0 One archive - http://www.thelastship.org/eFictio= n331/index.php =A0 =A0 Some yahoo groups you might want to add: Active grou= ps Aragorn Angst - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aragornangst/=A0=A0 Arago= rn and Legolas - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aragorn-legolas/ Julie_Fiann= a_Archive=A0 (Haldir) leaf_and_stone (Legolas and Gimli - no smut or slash)= ElvenLords=A0 (home of the MPAs when they return) LOTR_Adult_Fiction =A0 = Not so active silmarillion_fic=A0 Silmfics twinsofelrond (obviously - Elr= ohir and Elladan - no smut) Waters_of_Cuivienen (Silm) =A0 Whew....thats al= ot lol =A0 =A0 ~~**~~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay -= so whats the speed of dark? --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Alassante7 wrote: From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [Sil= marillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing To: SilmarillionWr= itersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 2:21 PM = Thanks for putting ALEC on there without me having to ask!! =A0 =A0 ~~= **~~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed = of dark? --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Dawn Felagund wrot= e: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: [SilmarillionWri= ter sGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing To: "SWG" Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 1:09 PM Hi, e= veryone, The past few months, my co-mods, volunteers, and I have been work= ing to get the Reference Library revised and updated so that we can resume = collecting essays and resources that we think will be useful, interesting, = or just plain entertaining. One of the references we've been working on is = the SWG Yellow Pages. The Yellow Pages are basically a listing of groups, = events, and websites that concern either the Tolkien fan community or the g= eneral writing community. We've got about seventy groups and sites listed a= lready. You can check it out here: http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .o= rg/reference/ yellowpages. php We realize that SWG is a highly specialized= group. Most of the people who belong to SWG are also interested in aspects= of Tolkien's world that don't apply readily to our mission, and so post th= eir work and participate in other groups as well as SWG. We are also a rela= tively small group and so recognize the difficulties that a small group fac= es when trying to keep an active community in the shadow of groups with man= y hundreds--even thousands!-- of members. And so the SWG Yellow Pages, we h= ope, will serve two purposes. We hope that it will help connect our members= with groups that serve their interests where we do not. And we hope that i= t will draw some attention to smaller groups by placing them in the same sp= ace and on equal ground with the large groups and archives that everyone al= ready knows. However, our work with this project is far from done. My como= ds and I have put our heads together and gone scouring the Internet for the= seventy-some groups that we have listed here, with some much-appreciated h= elp from others in the Tolkien community. But we know that this is far from= a complete listing. So we'd like to ask our members to help us too. If yo= u own a website or run a group that concerns Tolkien, writing, or fan cultu= re, we'd like to list your group. Please let us know so that we may add you= ! If you look through the listings and see that your favorite group or sit= e is not there, please tell us about it! You do not have to be the group's = owner to add it to the listing. This is not just a listing for Silmarillio= n groups and sites. If you run a Legolas fan site, we're just as interested= in that as a Feanorian discussion list. We have very few requirements for = groups that wish to be listed. The group should be somewhat active or have = content available to the public or group members. The group cannot exist to= insult or mock authors (think Mary Sue sporking communities) . And, if the= group is accepting new members, it should have a reasonable membership cri= teria and not accept only the owner's friends, or if it's not accepting gen= eral membership, it should provide something of use to the online public. = The guidelines for adding a group to the Yellow Pages, in much greater (and= more official-sounding! ) detail, are available here: http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild .org/reference/ joinyellowpages. php There is also a for= m to use to alert us that you'd like to add a new listing the Yellow Pages.= Or, email our Reference Library at loremaster AT silmarillionwriters guil= d DOT org if you have any questions (or if you wish to raid your favorites = folder and don't want to send a new form for each one!) All the best, Daw= n PS--We are also looking for a volunteer to act as Yellow Pages Coordinat= or: someone who will work specifically on developing this reference and kee= ping it up-to-date. I will be sending out an email in the next few weeks ab= out volunteer positions that we have open, and will have more detail then. = In the meantime, if you think you might be interested, please feel free to = contact me privately or at the address above. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.= silmarillionwri tersguild. org --0-987755119-1219430028=:43843 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
 
 
 
Some yahoo groups you might want to add:
Active groups
Aragorn Angst - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aragornangst/  
leaf_and_stone (Legolas and Gimli - no smut or slash)
ElvenLords  (home of the MPAs when they return)
 
Not so active
twinsofelrond (obviously - Elrohir and Elladan - no smut)
 
Whew....thats alot lol
 
 
~~**~~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?


--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Alassante7 wrote:
From: Alassante7
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 2:21 PM

Thanks for putting ALEC on there without me having to ask!!

 
 
~~**~~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?


--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing
To: "SWG"
Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 1:09 PM

Hi, everyone,

The past few months, my co-mods, volunteers, and I have been working to get the Reference Library revised and updated so that we can resume collecting essays and resources that we think will be useful, interesting, or just plain entertaining. One of the references we've been working on is the SWG Yellow Pages.

The Yellow Pages are basically a listing of groups, events, and websites that concern either the Tolkien fan community or the general writing community. We've got about seventy groups and sites listed already. You can check it out here:

http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/reference/ yellowpages. php

We realize that SWG is a highly specialized group. Most of the people who belong to SWG are also interested in aspects of Tolkien's world that don't apply readily to our mission, and so post their work and participate in other groups as well as SWG. We are also a relatively small group and so recognize the difficulties that a small group faces when trying to keep an active community in the shadow of groups with many hundreds--even thousands!-- of members. And so the SWG Yellow Pages, we hope, will serve two purposes. We hope that it will help connect our members with groups that serve their interests where we do not. And we hope that it will draw some attention to smaller groups by placing them in the same space and on equal ground with the large groups and archives that everyone already knows.

However, our work with this project is far from done. My comods and I have put our heads together and gone scouring the Internet for the seventy-some groups that we have listed here, with some much-appreciated help from others in the Tolkien community. But we know that this is far from a complete listing. So we'd like to ask our members to help us too.

If you own a website or run a group that concerns Tolkien, writing, or fan culture, we'd like to list your group. Please let us know so that we may add you!

If you look through the listings and see that your favorite group or site is not there, please tell us about it! You do not have to be the group's owner to add it to the listing.

This is not just a listing for Silmarillion groups and sites. If you run a Legolas fan site, we're just as interested in that as a Feanorian discussion list. We have very few requirements for groups that wish to be listed. The group should be somewhat active or have content available to the public or group members. The group cannot exist to insult or mock authors (think Mary Sue sporking communities) . And, if the group is accepting new members, it should have a reasonable membership criteria and not accept only the owner's friends, or if it's not accepting general membership, it should provide something of use to the online public.

The guidelines for adding a group to the Yellow Pages, in much greater (and more official-sounding! ) detail, are available here:

http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/reference/ joinyellowpages. php

There is also a form to use to alert us that you'd like to add a new listing the Yellow Pages.

Or, email our Reference Library at loremaster AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org if you have any questions (or if you wish to raid your favorites folder and don't want to send a new form for each one!)

All the best,

Dawn

PS--We are also looking for a volunteer to act as Yellow Pages Coordinator: someone who will work specifically on developing this reference and keeping it up-to-date. I will be sending out an email in the next few weeks about volunteer positions that we have open, and will have more detail then. In the meantime, if you think you might be interested, please feel free to contact me privately or at the address above.

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org


--0-987755119-1219430028=:43843-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2259 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69448 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 18:38:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 18:38:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 18:38:02 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id r.c4b.36664524 (48552) for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:37:51 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1219430271" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Ka1OStCqdFt1gdF6k15lcmJw0_mc0TBnOmTNg-nghy25-4fGC3FK X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1219430271 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/22/2008 1:34:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com writes: Not so active _silmarillion_sil_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silmarillion_fic/) (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silmarillion_fic/) _Silmfics_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Silmfics/?yguid=220965051) _twinsofelrond_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/twinsofelrond/?yguid=220965051) (obviously - Elrohir and Elladan - no smut) _Waters_of_Cuivienen_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Waters_of_Cuivienen/?yguid=220965051) (Silm) Whew....thats alot lol Actually, I have been getting several emails over the last few days from "silmarillion_fic." So it, apparently, is not that inactive. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------------------------1219430271 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 8/22/2008 1:34:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, alassante7@yahoo.com w= rites:
Not so active
twinsofelrond (obviously - Elrohir and Elladan - = no smut)
 
W= hew....thats alot lol
= Actually, I have been getting several emails over the last few days from "= silmarillion_fic." So it, apparently, is not that inactive.


It's only a deal if it's where you<= /I> want to go. Find your travel deal here= .
-------------------------------1219430271-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2260 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28147 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 18:38:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 18:38:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.152) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 18:38:45 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 4so284615yxp.34 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:38:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.182.1 with SMTP id e1mr1372577waf.143.1219430324770; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:38:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:38:44 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <994119.43843.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_69501_11091692.1219430324804" References: <843947.85527.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <994119.43843.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5EcGm-f0BmzbqNH8OnvtdmNleskdaIqwNhwJrOld-ggY7Ktm_HAL X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_69501_11091692.1219430324804-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2261 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31037 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 18:41:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 18:41:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.180) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 18:41:20 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j40so218124wah.15 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:41:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.201.1 with SMTP id y1mr1390028waf.93.1219430479994; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:41:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:41:19 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <994119.43843.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_69543_10343798.1219430480001" References: <843947.85527.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <994119.43843.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=duWItYAFEOM8yuTIhVxyYempTTviZjBzqy06Co5sHTt08vDp8SFp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_69543_10343798.1219430480001-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2262 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54963 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2008 18:50:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2008 18:50:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2008 18:50:57 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 8833 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Aug 2008 18:50:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: g_VhWYkVM1kAternq2rJQG7uLhyM40FQqHhomt4qpbl0dUAGvFjJwM2e9ztGXrHyIXz8V08HIBTE4hEykQD6e9UPPbBa2wGqTH2DFE76oMn_U3dR7EVNANIzVaFmZIgo1puaGxKxsK9LT7h11jF_ X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:50:56 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218.2 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:50:56 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-251322315-1219431056=:8582" Message-ID: <895334.8582.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=JEF8KSeZbHRGIoGEmFN_fFBqhCmWbo-p1zQI7hrVfrWkBLZKjw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-251322315-1219431056=:8582 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes the Last Ship used to be very small. I guess it grew LOL =A0 =A0 ~~= **~~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed = of dark? --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Dawn Felagund wrote= : From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionW= ritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing To: SilmarillionWritersGuild= @yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 2:41 PM Okay ... now= I feel like a dunce. I missed most of your message, Alassante! I got to Th= e Last Ship and saw no more. Wow ... *shakes head at self* I'm not going t= o even try to bookmark all of those. I'm just going to stick a Yellow Pages= label on this message and archive it! ;) Thanks a million for all of thos= e! Dawn who tries to stay on top of things but sometimes falls off -- ~o= Oo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org --0-251322315-1219431056=:8582 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Yes the Last Ship used to be very small. I guess it grew LOL

 
 
~~**~~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?


--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tolkien Group and Website Listing
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 2:41 PM

Okay ... now I feel like a dunce. I missed most of your message, Alassante! I got to The Last Ship and saw no more. Wow ... *shakes head at self*

I'm not going to even try to bookmark all of those. I'm just going to stick a Yellow Pages label on this message and archive it! ;)

Thanks a million for all of those!

Dawn
who tries to stay on top of things but sometimes falls off

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org

--0-251322315-1219431056=:8582-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2263 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8232 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2008 22:10:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2008 22:10:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.190) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2008 22:10:32 -0000 X-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id d21so485969nfb.49 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:10:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.210.28.4 with SMTP id b4mr3956613ebb.40.1219529430767; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:10:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.210.57.18 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <511ea890808231510n45f593f7t28f7182e91fc7982@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:10:30 -0500 To: littlebalrog@yahoogroups.com, HaldirLovers , silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: Awaiting (PG) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=XqnTVp56TmIXDpqziIWMFVKuKiouYrKQ7xVPbpKIJiY8mfywBqA X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex Title: Awaiting Author: Zhie - zhiester@gmail.com Rating: PG Word Count: 14= 22 Disclaimer: Just playing with Tolkien's elves, don't own any of them. Su= mmary: The host of the Noldor awaits the return of the ships to Alqualonde.= Archive: Phoenix - http://phoenix.zhie.us Notes: Written for the lotrdream= s.com competition IX. I ended up sacrificing some creativity in order to m= anage the technical aspect of the story... what technical aspect? Here's a= hint... there's exactly 26 paragraphs in this little beastie. Also, I fud= ged a few names, some in Sindarin, some in Quenya, either because of trying= to keep the alliteration going, or because I just liked the name better in= one or the other. Hopefully it won't ruin things too much. Azure skies,= lit only by the stars of Elbereth, reflected the dark moods of those await= ing on the shore. Some sat alone, and others huddled together as all eyes = kept watch across the water, to the shores on the other side, to a land the= y could almost touch but still remained so far away. So close=85 so far. = A mist was rising up, and the air was dense and depressing. Artanis turned= her head and asked her companion, "Can you still see the ships?" "Aye," a= nswered Ecthelion, though his voice was so quiet it may well have been a br= eeze. He let out an impatient breath and tightened his hold on the hilt of= his sword, which he had not taken his hand from after cleaning and sheathi= ng it earlier. Axes and swords were strewn on the grass, some dropped afte= r only a single stroke. Many found they did not have the stomach for the s= ort of thing they had gotten themselves into; others pretended they did, bu= t one look in their eyes told of sorrow and remorse for what had befallen t= heir Telerin kin. Awkward silence followed and all attention focused again= upon the vessels anchored so far away. They bobbed lazily in the water, t= he cargo they had carried safely on the other side. "What are they waiting= for?" murmured Elenw=EB. "The ships should have been sent back by now." = Her husband pulled her closer and placed his other arm around their daughte= r. Averted gazes flickered over shoulders, to the paths the Teleri had tak= en in order to escape the wicked Noldorin blades. As of yet there was no = sign of a counterattack, nor had any of the Valar come to give any further = warnings. "Is there a signal we should be watching for?" questioned Argon.= "Are we supposed to let them know to send the ships back to us?" None co= uld answer him. Austerely, Fingolfin shook his head when his son opened hi= s mouth to speak again. Now was not the time to wonder about details. Mum= blings within the host of what they should do were further favoring crawlin= g back to the Valar or some other form of penance. "Friends, let us wait a= little longer," said Fingolfin. "Perhaps they were assailed by the forces= of Morgoth and are guarding the ships." "Attacks we would see, but it app= ears they have made camp," argued Angrod, but his elder brothers hushed him= . His concerns were voiced further, privately to Aegnor, and to Argon, who= was now pacing, breaking up the calm of their watch. The whispers travele= d swiftly, to Fingolfin's dismay. As Fingolfin took measures to steady the= company against the grievances of his brother's sons, his three eldest chi= ldren ventured to the end of one of the piers. Most of the docks were dama= ged or destroyed, the ropes cut to free the ships =96 no time to untie them= . They ignored the bodies in the water, Turgon thankful he had left Idril o= n shore with his wife. At the end of the pier they stopped, and stared, an= d waited. Aredhel lightly touched the shoulder of her eldest brother. "Ar= e you sure they are going to come back for us?" It was a question in the mi= nds of many, and Fingon only took a deep breath and did not answer. Aquama= rine highlights danced across the bloodied blue waters. Acquainted with the= shoreline city, Artanis began to walk up the gentle rise to an area that w= ould give a better view. She motioned for Ecthelion to follow, and he acqu= iesced with a frown. "This is not how I envisioned things to go," he admit= ted once they were well away from the others. Apprehensive and unable to p= ut her own feelings into words, Artanis merely nodded in agreement. Once a= rdent about her ambitions to leave Valinor and become a great ruler in some= eastern part of Arda, second thoughts about her recent actions plagued her= mind. Aoudads and goats bleated not very far from where the party was ass= embled; the light of Laurelin would just now be battling Telperion's for br= ightness, if they did not lie in ruin. The sound of the awakening livestoc= k brought unease to the Noldor. Anticipation grew as the announcement came= that someone had seen movement on one of the ships. All eyes focused once= again upon swan-necked boats, hope renewed. "Can you see whom it is?" ask= ed Aredhel of her brothers. "Ambarto, I think," answered Fingon. "Althoug= h... there is someone else, on the shore. It looks like Uncle Feanor, and = our cousin Curufin. They have torches, but I see no beacon for them to lig= ht." He gasped in horror as he realized what they meant to do. "They are b= urning the ships," he said, the fear of betrayal became strong within him. = All assembled at Alqualonde appeared alarmed. Some saw the smoke first, a= nd other the flames. Many rushed toward the water's edge, and some even en= tered, shouting curses they had once reserved for Morgoth at the one they t= hought could deliver them from the evils they believed plagued them. The b= odies of the slain bumped against their shins, yet went unnoticed as the sh= outing continued. "Akin we are to him, and yet look what has happened! Tr= aitors, all of them!" shouted Aegnor as Fingon and his siblings came to joi= n their youngest brother on shore. Fingon ignored the outburst of his cous= in and grabbed hold of Argon's sleeve in order to steer him toward the smal= l store house he had seen his father go into once the outcry came from thei= r kinsmen. Ajar was the door, but Turgon arrived at the entrance first and= kicked it open anyhow. The others soon followed, with Aredhel having the = sense to shut the door behind her. Fingolfin, who was steadying himself wi= th one hand against a wall, looked up and shook his head. "This is a diffic= ult situation your uncle has put us into." "Ai! The ships are burned, and= you say 'a difficult situation'?" Turgon looked for something else to kick= and settled on a pile of rope. "Are we going to swim across the sea now? = And when we get there, who is the greater enemy: Morgoth, or Feanor?" "Ah= ead of us is great peril, but that was to be expected anyhow. Without ships= , there is but one course before us," said Fingolfin. "I have seen it in m= y dreams time and again, but now we must make the crossing of the Helcaraxe= a reality." Aghast at the proposition, Aredhel pleaded with her father. = "There must be another way. We can build ships of our own if we must, even= if it takes years. The Helcaraxe is too dangerous." "After our actions h= ere, I doubt we will be allowed the time it would take to build the ships w= e need. Even if the Valar gave us leave for such a task, the Teleri will n= ot stand idly by as we take over their land, consume their supplies, and tr= espass upon the ground and water of where so many of them met their end." = Fingolfin looked up as the door was pushed open, and saw the contingent of = his brother's house at the door. Aegnor spoke for them, perhaps to keep hi= s angry older brother from ruining the alliance. "We wish for unity betwee= n us, Uncle. Where you go, we shall follow. In solidarity, to the end." = Advice from Finrod followed. "There is restlessness among the others outsi= de; whatever your decision, Uncle, make it swiftly. The ships are full afl= ame. A leader must emerge and take control; else, Morgoth has already won.= " Acceptance in the matter of the fleet being lost was bitter as Fingolfin= came forth and rallied the Noldorin host. He did not speak as long or as = passionately as his half-brother might have, but wisdom and truth were in h= is words and he convinced many of them to stay the course and come with him= on the perilous adventure across the churning ice. Absolute command was s= omething he insisted upon, and some now turned away from their goal. Those= with the determination, or at the very least, a stubborn attitude, pledged= their allegiance to Fingolfin =96 at least, for now. --- "Aah, so that i= s why you hate the snow," said Eol in an understanding manner. Aredhel gav= e a curt nod before she retreated into the cave. The dark elf watched a han= dful of snowflakes drift to the ground. Another chapter of his wife's previ= ous life was explained, and yet he still wondered why she always wore white= . -- Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix= .zhie.us They're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2264 Return-Path: X-Sender: valadhiel-star@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29939 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2008 08:12:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2008 08:12:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc1-s27.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.99) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 2008 08:12:05 -0000 X-Received: from BAY103-DS1 ([65.54.174.88]) by bay0-omc1-s27.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 25 Aug 2008 01:11:47 -0700 X-Originating-Email: [valadhiel-star@hotmail.com] Message-ID: Return-Path: valadhiel-star@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <511ea890808231510n45f593f7t28f7182e91fc7982@mail.gmail.com> To: References: <511ea890808231510n45f593f7t28f7182e91fc7982@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:11:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Unsent: 1 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2008 08:11:47.0071 (UTC) FILETIME=[37F338F0:01C9068A] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Anji" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] FIC: Awaiting (PG) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=305359132; y=KszSp2TGnkIwexPENj0C3sAwGwu6W7hkKhc1HxHCJVOJOvin X-Yahoo-Profile: valadhiel Thank you Zhie, I really enjoyed that, I was transported right there with them. Valadhiel. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Zhie" Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 12:10 AM To: ; "HaldirLovers" ; ; Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] FIC: Awaiting (PG) > Title: Awaiting > Author: Zhie - zhiester@gmail.com > Rating: PG > Word Count: 1422 > Disclaimer: Just playing with Tolkien's elves, don't own any of them. > Summary: The host of the Noldor awaits the return of the ships to > Alqualonde. > Archive: Phoenix - http://phoenix.zhie.us > Notes: Written for the lotrdreams.com competition IX. I ended up > sacrificing some creativity in order to manage the technical aspect of > the story... what technical aspect? Here's a hint... there's exactly > 26 paragraphs in this little beastie. Also, I fudged a few names, > some in Sindarin, some in Quenya, either because of trying to keep the > alliteration going, or because I just liked the name better in one or > the other. Hopefully it won't ruin things too much. > > > Azure skies, lit only by the stars of Elbereth, reflected the dark > moods of those awaiting on the shore. Some sat alone, and others > huddled together as all eyes kept watch across the water, to the > shores on the other side, to a land they could almost touch but still > remained so far away. So close� so far. A mist was rising up, and > the air was dense and depressing. Artanis turned her head and asked > her companion, "Can you still see the ships?" > > "Aye," answered Ecthelion, though his voice was so quiet it may well > have been a breeze. He let out an impatient breath and tightened his > hold on the hilt of his sword, which he had not taken his hand from > after cleaning and sheathing it earlier. > > Axes and swords were strewn on the grass, some dropped after only a > single stroke. Many found they did not have the stomach for the sort > of thing they had gotten themselves into; others pretended they did, > but one look in their eyes told of sorrow and remorse for what had > befallen their Telerin kin. > > Awkward silence followed and all attention focused again upon the > vessels anchored so far away. They bobbed lazily in the water, the > cargo they had carried safely on the other side. "What are they > waiting for?" murmured Elenw�. "The ships should have been sent back > by now." Her husband pulled her closer and placed his other arm > around their daughter. > > Averted gazes flickered over shoulders, to the paths the Teleri had > taken in order to escape the wicked Noldorin blades. As of yet there > was no sign of a counterattack, nor had any of the Valar come to give > any further warnings. "Is there a signal we should be watching for?" > questioned Argon. "Are we supposed to let them know to send the ships > back to us?" None could answer him. > > Austerely, Fingolfin shook his head when his son opened his mouth to > speak again. Now was not the time to wonder about details. Mumblings > within the host of what they should do were further favoring crawling > back to the Valar or some other form of penance. "Friends, let us > wait a little longer," said Fingolfin. "Perhaps they were assailed by > the forces of Morgoth and are guarding the ships." > > "Attacks we would see, but it appears they have made camp," argued > Angrod, but his elder brothers hushed him. His concerns were voiced > further, privately to Aegnor, and to Argon, who was now pacing, > breaking up the calm of their watch. The whispers traveled swiftly, > to Fingolfin's dismay. > > As Fingolfin took measures to steady the company against the > grievances of his brother's sons, his three eldest children ventured > to the end of one of the piers. Most of the docks were damaged or > destroyed, the ropes cut to free the ships � no time to untie them. > They ignored the bodies in the water, Turgon thankful he had left > Idril on shore with his wife. At the end of the pier they stopped, > and stared, and waited. > > Aredhel lightly touched the shoulder of her eldest brother. "Are you > sure they are going to come back for us?" It was a question in the > minds of many, and Fingon only took a deep breath and did not answer. > > Aquamarine highlights danced across the bloodied blue waters. > Acquainted with the shoreline city, Artanis began to walk up the > gentle rise to an area that would give a better view. She motioned > for Ecthelion to follow, and he acquiesced with a frown. "This is not > how I envisioned things to go," he admitted once they were well away > from the others. > > Apprehensive and unable to put her own feelings into words, Artanis > merely nodded in agreement. Once ardent about her ambitions to leave > Valinor and become a great ruler in some eastern part of Arda, second > thoughts about her recent actions plagued her mind. > > Aoudads and goats bleated not very far from where the party was > assembled; the light of Laurelin would just now be battling > Telperion's for brightness, if they did not lie in ruin. The sound of > the awakening livestock brought unease to the Noldor. > > Anticipation grew as the announcement came that someone had seen > movement on one of the ships. All eyes focused once again upon > swan-necked boats, hope renewed. "Can you see whom it is?" asked > Aredhel of her brothers. > > "Ambarto, I think," answered Fingon. "Although... there is someone > else, on the shore. It looks like Uncle Feanor, and our cousin > Curufin. They have torches, but I see no beacon for them to light." > He gasped in horror as he realized what they meant to do. "They are > burning the ships," he said, the fear of betrayal became strong within > him. > > All assembled at Alqualonde appeared alarmed. Some saw the smoke > first, and other the flames. Many rushed toward the water's edge, and > some even entered, shouting curses they had once reserved for Morgoth > at the one they thought could deliver them from the evils they > believed plagued them. The bodies of the slain bumped against their > shins, yet went unnoticed as the shouting continued. > > "Akin we are to him, and yet look what has happened! Traitors, all of > them!" shouted Aegnor as Fingon and his siblings came to join their > youngest brother on shore. Fingon ignored the outburst of his cousin > and grabbed hold of Argon's sleeve in order to steer him toward the > small store house he had seen his father go into once the outcry came > from their kinsmen. > > Ajar was the door, but Turgon arrived at the entrance first and kicked > it open anyhow. The others soon followed, with Aredhel having the > sense to shut the door behind her. Fingolfin, who was steadying > himself with one hand against a wall, looked up and shook his head. > "This is a difficult situation your uncle has put us into." > > "Ai! The ships are burned, and you say 'a difficult situation'?" > Turgon looked for something else to kick and settled on a pile of > rope. "Are we going to swim across the sea now? And when we get > there, who is the greater enemy: Morgoth, or Feanor?" > > "Ahead of us is great peril, but that was to be expected anyhow. > Without ships, there is but one course before us," said Fingolfin. "I > have seen it in my dreams time and again, but now we must make the > crossing of the Helcaraxe a reality." > > Aghast at the proposition, Aredhel pleaded with her father. "There > must be another way. We can build ships of our own if we must, even > if it takes years. The Helcaraxe is too dangerous." > > "After our actions here, I doubt we will be allowed the time it would > take to build the ships we need. Even if the Valar gave us leave for > such a task, the Teleri will not stand idly by as we take over their > land, consume their supplies, and trespass upon the ground and water > of where so many of them met their end." Fingolfin looked up as the > door was pushed open, and saw the contingent of his brother's house at > the door. > > Aegnor spoke for them, perhaps to keep his angry older brother from > ruining the alliance. "We wish for unity between us, Uncle. Where > you go, we shall follow. In solidarity, to the end." > > Advice from Finrod followed. "There is restlessness among the others > outside; whatever your decision, Uncle, make it swiftly. The ships > are full aflame. A leader must emerge and take control; else, Morgoth > has already won." > > Acceptance in the matter of the fleet being lost was bitter as > Fingolfin came forth and rallied the Noldorin host. He did not speak > as long or as passionately as his half-brother might have, but wisdom > and truth were in his words and he convinced many of them to stay the > course and come with him on the perilous adventure across the churning > ice. > > Absolute command was something he insisted upon, and some now turned > away from their goal. Those with the determination, or at the very > least, a stubborn attitude, pledged their allegiance to Fingolfin � at > least, for now. > > --- > > "Aah, so that is why you hate the snow," said Eol in an understanding > manner. Aredhel gave a curt nod before she retreated into the cave. > The dark elf watched a handful of snowflakes drift to the ground. > Another chapter of his wife's previous life was explained, and yet he > still wondered why she always wore white. > > > -- > Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... > http://phoenix.zhie.us > They're always after me purple bunnies... > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2265 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4510 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2008 18:40:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2008 18:40:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.121) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 2008 18:40:06 -0000 Received: from [69.147.84.144] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2008 18:40:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t6.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2008 18:40:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2008 18:40:06 -0000 X-Sender: mazop@poczta.onet.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36840 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2008 18:38:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2008 18:38:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n35d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.189) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 2008 18:38:54 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.84.145] by n35.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2008 18:38:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t8.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2008 18:38:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2008 18:38:51 -0000 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:38:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "mantida73" Subject: Fic: Farazbund and many thanks X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=146175147; y=zJXHh6v958HCl4WMxF_FBaotmQ2wzTPz4_Y-3c5VmYp2BA-y X-Yahoo-Profile: mantida73 X-eGroups-Approved-By: tarion_anarore via web; 25 Aug 2008 18:40:04 -0000 Hello, I am new to the group. I am writing mostly to thank Marta for her he= lp in finding a beta reader for my story, and Gwynnyd for her expert beta-r= eading. The story itself is uploaded here: http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D374 I also have some old Silmar= illion-themed stories written, would it be appropriate to upload them as we= ll? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2266 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11557 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2008 18:49:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2008 18:49:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f15.google.com) (209.85.217.15) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 2008 18:49:16 -0000 X-Received: by gxk8 with SMTP id 8so2514671gxk.14 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:49:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.1 with SMTP id s1mr3846267wab.13.1219690155011; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:49:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:49:14 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_103222_11281296.1219690155004" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fic: Farazbund and many thanks X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=o3JfK_xAZ0rpjP744aPeORYvOYg4MWw2fRfod-QXkY1Si3c1jHAs X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_103222_11281296.1219690155004-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2267 Return-Path: X-Sender: mazop@poczta.onet.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34393 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2008 21:40:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2008 21:40:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 2008 21:40:35 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2008 21:40:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2008 21:40:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2008 21:40:35 -0000 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:40:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "mantida73" Subject: Re: Fic: Farazbund and many thanks X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=146175147; y=PpV3JUc34e21Li8lRCC-BVJzWK_xTUqgOTovU9Yvc90bdk9H X-Yahoo-Profile: mantida73 Thank you for your welcome. I will surely upload the other stories. *The t= ext below contains spoilers for the story 'Farazbund'* And many thanks for= your review and recommendation. I am glad you noticed that - 'my' Oropher = is a prejudiced, xenophobic boor, but he still has a very valid point. Aule= an arts were not evil (here he went wrong - but then Oropher is not shown b= y Tolkien as particularly bright) but doubtlessly dangerous, especially for= elves. (On the other hand, the example of Finrod Felagund shows that neith= er Aulean crafts not association with dwarves were harmful as such - balanc= e and awareness of the danger were probably the key to success.) Dwarves, a= pparently, could practice them with impunity, so they would not see any pro= blem - if dwarves were morally corrupt, it showed as greed (Thorin) or vind= ictiveness (Mim), not anything connected directly with their craft: there w= as no dwarven equivalent of Feanor or Celebrimbor, we know nothing unfavour= able about greatest dwarven craftsmen like Telchar or Narvi. So where Mur s= aw an innocent child with a great talent for what he considered the most no= ble art (and what was the most important thing in his own life, defining wh= o and what he was), Oropher saw his son in danger of corruption. I am more = inclined to sympathize with Mur's viewpoint, but you are probably right tha= t Tolkien himself would have a different opinion. --- In SilmarillionWrite= rsGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Hi, = Mantida! > > > I also have some old Silmarillion-themed stories written, w= ould it be > > appropriate to upload them as well? > > Yes, absolutely! Pl= ease feel free to share anything Silm-related that you > have on this group= . Sometimes I drag out stories that are three or four > years old and repos= t them on SWG. > > Also, I read your story this afternoon and loved it! Ve= ry well-written and > thought-provoking ... I highly recommend it to anyone= reading this! Here's > the link again: > > http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D374 > > All the best, > > Dawn= > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2268 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58958 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2008 02:57:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Aug 2008 02:57:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 2008 02:57:45 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 43964 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Aug 2008 02:57:44 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: P4JPOE8VM1lNJIq11NU2BAtm5Fx1IuOSnLyx2DU33Hk8ZSmvG8Bvh8JzeHOxHyuxzA-- X-Received: from [98.16.35.144] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:57:44 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218.2 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:57:44 -0700 (PDT) To: silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, Silmfics@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild , TwinsOfElrond , open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com, ElvenLords@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, SoA , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1287740650-1219805864=:42106" Message-ID: <653392.42106.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: ALEC .:Don't Tell Me, I Don't Want to Know:. September's Theme! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=WzNx1USWAKXCqSBMEtB2DuMWEz2SvVFX3YIOJQ42UscfpLv9BA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1287740650-1219805864=:42106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Our first prompt is posted at ALEC (A Long Expected Contest) if you're int= erested in joining! We also have our new Live Journal page up and runnin= g! http://community.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/ --- On Tue, 8/26/08, alas= sante7 wrote: From: alassante7 Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] ..::Don't Tell Me, I Don't Want to Kn= ow::.. September's Theme! To: A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.com Date:= Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 3:12 PM I said I would start the prompt f= or September a little early since some of the Americans might be on vacatio= n for Labor Day Weekend. =A0 'Only one thing is clear to me,' said Otho, 'a= nd that is that you are doing exceedingly well out of it. I insist on seein= g the will.' Otho would have been Bilbo's heir, but for the adoption of Fro= do. He read the will carefully and snorted. It was, unfortunately, very cle= ar and correct (according to the legal customs of hobbits, which demand amo= ng other things seven signatures of witnesses in red ink). 'Foiled again!' = he said to his wife. 'And after waiting sixty years. Spoons? Fiddlesticks! = ' He snapped his fingers under Frodo's nose and slumped off. Fellowship of = the Rings - Chapter 1 A Long-expected Party =A0 There are some things that = you wished you didn't know after you find out. And at times, its best left = unsaid. Sometimes its to your benefit that someone else not know the full d= etails. Or perhaps the consequences of knowing might not be worth the satis= faction of being told. Maybe Faramir would have preferred not knowing the r= ing had driven Boromir to betraying the Fellowship. Or Fingolfin might not = have=A0wanted to know his brother had betrayed him when he saw the ships bu= rning. But is it better to keep something so important from someone? This i= s your chance to write about it! It does not have to be based on documented= events in the book and the words in the theme do not have to be included i= n the fiction. Each writer has until September 30th to turn in the story. W= e should have the LJ up by next week and will post a link in the group to a= dd it. Good luck and happy writing! =A0 Reminder of the Rules (full contest= rules are in the group's file section) =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 Each month a new t= opic/prompt/ challenge will be posted in the Yahoo group and on the LJ on t= he first day of the month. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 Writers have until the final day= of the month to write a fiction in response to the topic/challenge. The de= adline will be posted with the topic and we will post reminders as well. = =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 The story cannot be a WIP and must be less than 10,000 word= s unless part of the challenge/topic is the length, then those rules would = apply. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 The three categories of the contest are Slash, Het, = and General. =CF=A0=A0=A0=A0 Slash includes any same sex pairing even if t= here is not explicit sex. =CF=A0=A0=A0=A0 Het includes any het romance/pai= ring even if there isn't explicit sex. =CF=A0=A0=A0=A0 General would be an= ything that has no romantic pairings that pertain to the story. =CF=A0=A0= =A0=A0 If there are both Het and Slash pairings in the story then you will = need to decide which pairing is the primary pairing, then base your categor= y on that. However if you put anything in Het that has Slash content, there= needs to be a strong warning and vice versa for Slash with Het content. If= the main pairing is the only Het couple while everyone else is slash =96 y= ou might want to put it in slash anyway (and vice versa of course) since th= at is the most likely audience. =CF=A0=A0=A0=A0 If the pairing is canon and= isn't a romance or part of the main story, it can still be general. =A7= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 For example a story about the birth of Maedhros th= at mentions the marriage of Feanor and Nerdanel can be marked as General si= nce the focus isn't the romance of Feanor and Nerdanel. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 If= you want, you can write a story in more than one category but can only sub= mit one story per category. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 Stories can be rated up to NC17= but must have all warnings clearly marked. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 Writers can ha= ve a beta, but the beta cannot tell anyone whose story it is. =CC=A0=A0=A0= =A0 At the end of the 4 weeks, the stories need to be sent to the Challenge= Mod alikatskorner@ rockfan.com =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 The story should have the = following header: Title: Writer: Beta (if any): Category:=A0 (Gen, Slash, H= et) Rating:=A0 (G, PG, PG13, R, NC-17) Age: (Pre-First Age, Second Age, Th= ird Age, Fourth Age and Beyond) Pairings/Characters : (you can put mystery = character if needed) Warnings: See below Summary (optional): The header wi= ll be posted with the story minus the beta and writers name. Warnings shoul= d be provided for: =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Non-Consensual Sexual Situat= ions/Rape =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 BDSM =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 To= rture =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Graphic Violence =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 Character Death =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Graphic sex =B7=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Incest =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 MPRG =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 Anything that you believe might be objectionable or bothersome= to some readers or that you feel readers need to know before choosing to r= ead your story. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 The contest organizers have arbitrarily dec= reed some works not suitable for this contest. Therefore, we will not accep= t entries containing: =A7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 MSTs=A0 =A7=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 RPF =96 Real Person Fiction =A7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Besti= ality =A7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Underage or child-based sexual relations= hips with adults, including child molestation =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 Writers canno= t post the story anywhere else or let anyone know which story theirs is unt= il after voting is over. If we have reports of this rule being broken, the = author's story will be removed from the contest completely. =CC=A0=A0=A0= =A0 The stories will be posted anonymously by the Mod within 2 days of the = end of the writing period and then the voting period will begin. = --0-1287740650-1219805864=:42106 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Our first prompt= is posted at ALEC (A Long Expected Contest) if you're interested in joinin= g!
We also have our new Live Journal page up an= d running! http://community.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/



--- O= n Tue, 8/26/08, alassante7 wrote= :
From: alassante7 Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] ..::Don't Tell Me, I Don't Want to = Know::.. September's Theme!
To: A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.com<= br>Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 3:12 PM

=
I said I would= start the prompt for September a little early since some of the Americans = might be on vacation for Labor Day Weekend.
 

'Only one thing is clear to me,' sai= d Otho, 'and that is that you are doing exceedingly well out of it. I insist on seeing the will.'

Otho would have been Bilbo's heir, but for the adoption o= f Frodo. He read the will carefull= y and snorted. It was, unfortunately, very clear and correct (according to = the legal customs of hobbits, whic= h demand among other things seven signatures of witnesses in red ink).

=

'Foiled again!'= he said to his wife. 'And after waiting sixty years. Spoons? Fiddlesticks! ' He snapped his fingers under Frodo's nose and slumped of= f.

= Fellowship of the Rings = - Chapter 1 A Long-expected Party

 

There are some things that you wi= shed you didn't know after you find out. And at times, its best left unsaid= . Sometimes its to your benefit that someone else not know the full details= . Or perhaps the consequences of knowing might not be worth the satisfactio= n of being told. Maybe Faramir would have preferred not knowing the ring ha= d driven Boromir to betraying the Fellowship. Or Fingolfin might not have&n= bsp;wanted to know his brother had betrayed him when he saw the ships burni= ng. But is it better to keep something so important from someone? This is y= our chance to write about it!
It d= oes not have to be based on documented events in the book and the words in = the theme do not have to be included in the fiction. Each writer has until = September 30th to turn in t= he story. We should have the LJ up by next week and will post a link in the= group to add it.
Good luck and ha= ppy writing!
 
Reminder= of the Rules (full contest rules are in the group's file section)

   &n= bsp; Each month a new topic/prompt/ challenge will= be posted in the Yahoo group and on the LJ on the first day of the month.<= /span>

=CC     Writers have until the final da= y of the month to write a fiction in response to the topic/challenge. The d= eadline will be posted with the topic and we will post reminders as well.

=CC     The story cannot be a WIP and m= ust be less than 10,000 words unless part of the challenge/topic is the len= gth, then those rules would apply.

= =CC   &nbs= p; The three categories of the contest are Slash, Het, and General.

=CF     Slash includes any same sex pairing = even if there is not explicit sex.

=CF   &nb= sp; Het includes any het romance/pairing even if there isn't explicit sex.=

=CF     General would be anything tha= t has no romantic pairings that pertain to the story.

=CF     If there are both Het a= nd Slash pairings in the story then you will need to decide which pairing i= s the primary pairing, then base your category on that. However if you put = anything in Het that has Slash content, there needs to be a strong warning = and vice versa for Slash with Het content. If the main pairing is the only = Het couple while everyone else is slash =96 you might want to put it in sla= sh anyway (and vice versa of course) since that is the most likely audience= .

=CF     If the pairing is canon and i= sn't a romance or part of the main story, it can still be general. <= /font>

=A7         <= /span>For example= a story about the birth of Maedhros that mentions the marriage of Feanor a= nd Nerdanel can be marked as General since the focus isn't the romance of F= eanor and Nerdanel.

=CC<= span style=3D"font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-vari= ant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font= -size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">     = If you= want, you can write a story in more than one category but can only submit = one story per category.

=CC     <= /span>Stories= can be rated up to NC17 but must have all warnings clearly marked. =

=CC     Writers can have a beta, but t= he beta cannot tell anyone whose story it is.

=CC &n= bsp;   At the end of the 4 weeks, the stories need to be sent to= the Challenge Mod alikatskorner@ rockfan.com

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=CC&= nbsp;    The story should have the = following header:

Title:

Writer:

= Bet= a (if any):

Category:  (Gen, Slash, Het)

Rating:&= nbsp; (G, PG, PG13, R, NC-17)

Age: (Pre-First Age, Second Age, Third Age, Fourth Age and Beyond)<= /span>

Pairings/Characters : (you can put mystery c= haracter if needed)

Warnings: See = below

Summary (optional): =

The header will be posted with th= e story minus the beta and writers name.

Warnings should be provided for:

=B7         Non-Consensual Sexual Situations/Rape

=

=B7         BDSM

=B7   &nbs= p;     Torture

=B7         <= /font>Graphic Violence

=B7         Character Death

= =B7  = ;       = Graphic sex

=B7      =    Incest

=

=B7         MPRG

=B7      = ;   Anything that you believe might be o= bjectionable or bothersome to some readers or that you feel readers need to= know before choosing to read your story.

=CC     <= /span>The con= test organizers have arbitrarily decreed some works not suitable for this c= ontest. Therefore, we will not accept entries containing:

=A7         MSTs 

=A7         RPF =96 Real Perso= n Fiction

=A7       &nbs= p; Bestiality

<= span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Wingdings;">=A7       = ;  Underage or child-based sexual relationships with adults, includin= g child molestation

=CC     Writers can= not post the story anywhere else or let anyone know which story thei= rs is until after voting is over. If we have reports of this rule being bro= ken, the author's story will be removed from the contest completely.

=CC     The stories will be posted anonymous= ly by the Mod within 2 days of the end of the writing period and then the v= oting period will begin.

=
--0-1287740650-1219805864=:42106-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2269 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30667 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2008 16:54:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2008 16:54:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2008 16:54:55 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j37so1374046waf.22 for ; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:54:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.74.1 with SMTP id w1mr5398468waa.229.1220288094883; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:54:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Sep 2008 09:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 12:54:54 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_58109_20907389.1220288094887" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Poll and Public Opinion on Slash/Het Labels on Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=bN3T9Zo3pyC5gWgZC9hgX2G87pHBF-9b48bdk4ldmSFzVfGN61mQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_58109_20907389.1220288094887-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2270 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88959 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2008 17:12:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2008 17:12:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.239) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2008 17:12:46 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c30so1973504wra.21 for ; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:12:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.84.2 with SMTP id h2mr8128736agb.10.1220289166187; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?69.124.5.108? ( [69.124.5.108]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 39sm8760180agb.23.2008.09.01.10.12.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <48BC228E.4040102@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 13:12:46 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Poll and Public Opinion on Slash/Het Labels on Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=3MXYdUylZfWPqk5CUvVKU7EmMiY1poMw5q2Sx7GksZ4Miv5Xr6h0eg X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, I've taken the poll but thought I'd explain my suggestion a bit here. This is something that's a bit important to me because it's always seemed a bit "off" to have to warn for het or slash. I understand that some people don't like non-canonical romances where one character or the other is married. However, for me personally I do not find it any more or less offensive whether such an extra-canonical story is slash or het. To provide a LOTR example (because I'm drawing a blank on a good Silm one), a Fourth Age story involving Aragorn/Eowyn would face much the same issues that would an Arwen/Eowyn story. In both cases you have two married people in an affair, and would need to account for that for the story to be convincing. The fact that one pairing is m/f and the other is f/f seems almost incidental in this situation - as it is in many such stories of extracanonical romances. Of course, some people *do* prefer just het or just slash, but this seems more a content preference (like wanting to read stories about a certain character or in a certain time period). It doesn't seem quite right to have to warn for het or slash as a rating warning, because that's not how readers seem to use this information. At least not how *this* reader uses that information. Given all of that, if you want my opinion, I'd suggest two changes: 1. Remove "Heterosexual/Het" and "Homosexual/Slash" from the list of warnings below. Just have "Graphic", "Mild", and "Moderate." 2. Offer a separate text field where people can specify the romance partner, either the specific characters (Glorfindel/Ecthelion, Feanor/Nerdanel, etc.) or the type of pairing (m/f, f/f, or m/m) or some combination of the two (Aredhel/f). Put this field under where authors select characters rather than with the warnings. I think this would allow readers to identify slash and het stories quite easily, without having to require authors to label their story as slahs or het like that's something that needs to be warned against. Marta Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > Hi, everyone, > > Some of you might remember that, a few months ago, this list had quite a > lengthy and intense discussion about slash and het and the labeling and > avoidance of each in fandom. This conversation sparked us to reconsider > how we label slash and het on our archive. > > Currently, slash and het stories are identified on the archive using > warnings. There are five warnings that concern sexual content that an > author may choose for his or her story on the archive, and the author > may choose as many warnings as apply. These warnings are: > > Sexual Content--Graphic > Sexual Content--Heterosexual/Het > Sexual Content--Homosexual/Slash > Sexual Content--Mild > Sexual Content--Moderate > > This system works fine when a story actually contains sexual content. > However, the question arose about how best to handle stories that > involve a pairing and /do not /contain sexual content. For example, does > a story that looks at the experience of being homosexual in Gondolin > (but that does not contain any sexual content) need to be labeled as > slash? Does a story that looks at the marriage of Nerdanel and Feanor > need to be labeled as het? Neither story is described well by the labels > available on the archive (and, in fact, the labels may be terribly > misleading), yet authors often feel pressured to label a story as slash > or het, knowing that readers who wish to avoid any mention of homosexual > or heterosexual pairings may criticize them if they do not. There are > also authors who dislike the labels "slash" and "het," even for stories > that involve sexual content, because the labels have picked up negative > connotations in some parts of fandom. > > Given these concerns, we asked our members to suggest a better way for > us to label slash and het on the archive. We want readers to be able to > find the stories that they want, but we also want authors to feel > comfortable using our system to share their work. We have gathered the > suggestions that we received and have put together a poll to see which > our members and visitors think would work best. We appreciate if > everyone could take a moment to look at the different options and vote > in the poll. Please note that there is also a space for any comments or > considerations that you'd like our moderators to keep in mind when > making the final decision. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2271 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87867 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2008 17:17:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2008 17:17:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.240) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2008 17:17:55 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so2719075rvf.16 for ; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:17:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.18.1 with SMTP id v1mr5479229wai.81.1220289474516; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 13:17:54 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <48BC228E.4040102@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_58483_21768042.1220289474520" References: <48BC228E.4040102@gmail.com> From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Poll and Public Opinion on Slash/Het Labels on Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=2s23aJeUjnfZq_OX0KVCPDkORhK-AXLterffg3vmqNeYqGgmvzYU X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_58483_21768042.1220289474520-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2272 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95845 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2008 17:22:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2008 17:22:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.237) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2008 17:22:10 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 76so2356147wra.10 for ; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:22:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.54.11 with SMTP id c11mr2583976aga.23.1220289730374; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?69.124.5.108? ( [69.124.5.108]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 7sm8748960aga.13.2008.09.01.10.22.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <48BC24C2.8070202@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 13:22:10 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <48BC228E.4040102@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Poll and Public Opinion on Slash/Het Labels on Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=AG7El9LvWi0SrL0D3t0-JqYBMxO1SW2UDpWvwluTtZz-LViiIrTR8g X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, Yes, that's precisely what I was advocating - but also the change to the warnings list that I described. I wasn't clear on how the poll would be interpreted: would selecting two options mean I was okay with either of them (in isolation), or that I thought both options needed to be implemented? I don't really have an objection to the label slash (or the label het), it's more that I don't think it should be used as a warning. It can be used to describe the content, and that's fine with me. It just sits uneasy with me to see it beside varying degrees of erotic content. Kind of like apples to oranges, if you get my drift. Marta Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > Hi, Marta, > > Thanks for the input! If I'm understanding correctly, you are advocating > for something like Option 3: "Create a field where authors can enter > whatever pairing information they want their readers to know. Authors > must enter something if their story contains a pairing, but they may be > as general or specific or use whatever terms they'd like." > > We kept this intentionally vague since some authors don't want to reveal > one or both members of a pairing, as it would spoil the story, and it > allows authors to pick whichever terms they are most comfortable using > to describe their story. If you don't like "slash," m/m or f/f works > just as well. If you're proud to write slash, that's an acceptable > pairing description as well! :) > > Am I understanding correctly? > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2273 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93519 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2008 17:24:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2008 17:24:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.181) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2008 17:24:29 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j4so1878437wah.19 for ; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:24:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.58.18 with SMTP id l18mr5437379wak.177.1220289869619; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:24:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 13:24:29 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <48BC24C2.8070202@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_58578_26800822.1220289869619" References: <48BC228E.4040102@gmail.com> <48BC24C2.8070202@gmail.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Poll and Public Opinion on Slash/Het Labels on Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=L4tlolBSh3qJRUwAJmLNXtoQxBzkoxkeFqY6yRGYGTQNr9G5b4TU X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_58578_26800822.1220289869619-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2274 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89155 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2008 18:10:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2008 18:10:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2008 18:10:58 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id r.d51.302cf5a2 (39332) for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2008 14:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 14:10:48 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1220292648" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Poll and Public Opinion on Slash/Het Labels on... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=QwZjbiTR7DqvWnSqmoOMkYslx-CCKx4bYtTUQG2uEk9UMGrE_NeV X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1220292648 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm easy. (I have very strong opinions, but don't expect people to share them.) But I want look at the poll again. I think I am leaning towards identifying with Marta's sense/impluse completely here. Examples of what I like, without are the ways it is done at HASA and in the MEFAs. There it is done more generally and without red dangers flags on slash or het. But then, I do understand you want readers to be able identify what they want to avoid. I have found that writers want to identify a story to keep away readers who will be appalled or offended as well. Examples: 1) slash is never identified as a choice on any way on HASA, but I have never once read a story and thought, well what a surprise to find this is about a same-sex/homosexual relationship. Writers choose to say so in summaries, to keep those who aren't going to like it from reading it. and perhaps even identify a target audience. 2) MEFAs identify romantic pairing--so unless one doesn't realize Eowyn/Arwen is an f/f pairing there will never be a problem with reader confusion. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------------------------1220292648 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I'm easy. (I have= very strong opinions, but don't expect people to share them.) But I want = look at the poll again. I think I am leaning towards identifying with Mart= a's sense/impluse completely here. Examples of what I like, without are th= e ways it is done at HASA and in the MEFAs. There it is done more gen= erally and without red dangers flags on slash or het. But then, I do under= stand you want readers to be able identify what they want to avoid. I have = found that writers want to identify a story to keep away readers who will = be appalled or offended as well.
 
<= /DIV>
 



It's o= nly a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
-------------------------------1220293110-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2276 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47678 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2008 14:52:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2008 14:52:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.152) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2008 14:52:39 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 34so1703553yxf.66 for ; Thu, 04 Sep 2008 07:52:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.175.16 with SMTP id x16mr8869759wae.155.1220539957428; Thu, 04 Sep 2008 07:52:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Sep 2008 07:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 10:52:37 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_48963_16129676.1220539957430" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Moderation Change in September X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0bpvlQVCckFI-pKP1GcXX6e1ozB-1y21PfAOtHIFuSnypaLJEieA X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_48963_16129676.1220539957430-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2277 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8730 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2008 22:30:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2008 22:30:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.170) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2008 22:30:42 -0000 X-Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 36so605254ugg.34 for ; Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:30:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.210.120.17 with SMTP id s17mr19056182ebc.177.1220913040303; Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:30:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.210.70.17 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Sep 2008 15:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <511ea890809081530u2f6755a0x5a57a0bd93244a9e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:30:40 -0500 To: legends_remain@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: OT: Sign up for the Winter Festival Drabble Exchange! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=kQAYHyGa7AlC3cTeVNF2dfxIzTOJrOr8PJYe7iP4UUoee65ITss X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex Sign up for the Winter Festival Drabble Exchange has been extended! This is a Tolkien-based (Lord of the Rings/Hobbit/Silmarillion) holiday drabble exchange, part of the Winter Festival. Sign up has been extended until September 14 (Sunday) for the Winter Festival Drabble Exchange! The sign up deadline for the festival challenges remains as December 5. What is the Winter Festival? It is a three-part festival: firstly, it is a trading of drabbles between writers; secondly, it is a writing of fanfics by those who seek a challenge; and thirdly, it is a display of winter themed art. In the participant section, there is also a place to show off winter and holiday themed stories and art from years past. The festival is for slash, het, and gen writers. For more information or to sign up, go to http://www.littlebalrog.com/winterfestival Zhie zhiester @ gmail . com -- Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2278 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56969 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2008 14:05:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2008 14:05:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2008 14:05:19 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 60730 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Sep 2008 14:05:18 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: UI5RLKkVM1mB0Pak2KZ33DjP4fXwXvGk5KnSUrI_7jLMEpZqQEoXArFSKJbr3KLdHG.HhCQYYhYcvjLTjRVzgBQnLh7UYm7vvYaMxa8XrAgnzprd5GHZ3YqWnTBz4mwgV74ztHHtOivYpJ0h8K4G X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:05:18 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218.2 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:05:18 -0700 (PDT) To: aragorn-legolas@yahoogroups.com, ElvenLords@yahoogroups.com, Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, Julie_Fianna_Archive@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild , Silmfics@yahoogroups.com, SoA , Waters_of_Cuivienen@yahoogroups.com, TwinsOfElrond MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2060085535-1221487518=:58126" Message-ID: <637785.58126.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Fw: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] Reminder - September Topic - "Don't Tell Me, I Don't Want to Know" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=hg7g4w28-dD8ZzWcepgwBE-_QC72qPsN7Y9MZGhJeE6hLNvVSw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-2060085535-1221487518=:58126 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: alassante7 Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest= ] Reminder - September Topic - "Don't Tell Me, I Don't Want to Know" To: A_= Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 10:= 00 AM We're half way through the month but its not too late to write= something! It can be a drabble or up to 10,000 words! =A0 'Only one thing= is clear to me,' said Otho, 'and that is that you are doing exceedingly we= ll out of it. I insist on seeing the will.' Otho would have been Bilbo's he= ir, but for the adoption of Frodo. He read the will carefully and snorted. = It was, unfortunately, very clear and correct (according to the legal custo= ms of hobbits, which demand among other things seven signatures of witnesse= s in red ink). 'Foiled again!' he said to his wife. 'And after waiting sixt= y years. Spoons? Fiddlesticks! ' He snapped his fingers under Frodo's nose = and slumped off. Fellowship of the Rings - Chapter 1 A Long-expected Party = =A0 The theme for September is: =A0'Don't Tell Me, I Don't Want to Know' Th= ere are some things that you wished you didn't know after you find out. And= at times, its best left unsaid. Sometimes its to your benefit that someone= else not know the full details. Or perhaps the consequences of knowing mig= ht not be worth the satisfaction of being told. Maybe Faramir would have pr= eferred not knowing the ring had driven Boromir to betraying the Fellowship= . Or Fingolfin might not have=A0wanted to know his brother had betrayed him= when he saw the ships burning. But is it better to keep something so impor= tant from someone? This is your chance to write about it! It does not have = to be based on documented events in the book and the words in the theme do = not have to be included in the fiction. Each writer has until September 30t= h to turn in the story. We should have the LJ up by next week and will post= a link in the group to add it. Good luck and happy writing! =A0 Reminder o= f the Rules =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 Each month a new topic/prompt/ challenge will = be posted in the Yahoo group and on the LJ on the first day of the month. = =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 Writers have until the final day of the month to write a fi= ction in response to the topic/challenge. The deadline will be posted with = the topic and we will post reminders as well. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 The story can= not be a WIP and must be less than 10,000 words unless part of the challeng= e/topic is the length, then those rules would apply. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 The th= ree categories of the contest are Slash, Het, and General. =CF=A0=A0=A0=A0= Slash includes any same sex pairing even if there is not explicit sex. = =CF=A0=A0=A0=A0 Het includes any het romance/pairing even if there isn't ex= plicit sex. =CF=A0=A0=A0=A0 General would be anything that has no romantic= pairings that pertain to the story. =CF=A0=A0=A0=A0 If there are both Het= and Slash pairings in the story then you will need to decide which pairing= is the primary pairing, then base your category on that. However if you pu= t anything in Het that has Slash content, there needs to be a strong warnin= g and vice versa for Slash with Het content. If the main pairing is the onl= y Het couple while everyone else is slash =96 you might want to put it in s= lash anyway (and vice versa of course) since that is the most likely audien= ce. =CF=A0=A0=A0=A0 If the pairing is canon and isn't a romance or part of = the main story, it can still be general. =A7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 For e= xample a story about the birth of Maedhros that mentions the marriage of Fe= anor and Nerdanel can be marked as General since the focus isn't the romanc= e of Feanor and Nerdanel. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 If you want, you can write a sto= ry in more than one category but can only submit one story per category. = =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 Stories can be rated up to NC17 but must have all warnings = clearly marked. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 Writers can have a beta, but the beta cann= ot tell anyone whose story it is. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 At the end of the 4 week= s, the stories need to be sent to the Challenge Mod alikatskorner@ rockfan.= com =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 The story should have the following header: Title: Wri= ter: Beta (if any): Category:=A0 (Gen, Slash, Het) Rating:=A0 (G, PG, PG13,= R, NC-17) Age: (Pre-First Age, Second Age, Third Age, Fourth Age and Beyo= nd) Pairings/Characters : (you can put mystery character if needed) Warning= s: See below Summary (optional): The header will be posted with the story = minus the beta and writers name. Warnings should be provided for: =B7=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Non-Consensual Sexual Situations/Rape =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 BDSM =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Torture =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 Graphic Violence =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Character Death = =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Graphic sex =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Incest = =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 MPRG =B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Anything that = you believe might be objectionable or bothersome to some readers or that yo= u feel readers need to know before choosing to read your story. =CC=A0=A0= =A0=A0 The contest organizers have arbitrarily decreed some works not suita= ble for this contest. Therefore, we will not accept entries containing: =A7= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 MSTs=A0 =A7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 RPF =96 Real P= erson Fiction =A7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Bestiality =A7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 Underage or child-based sexual relationships with adults, includi= ng child molestation =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 Writers cannot post the story anywhere= else or let anyone know which story theirs is until after voting is over. = If we have reports of this rule being broken, the author's story will be re= moved from the contest completely. =CC=A0=A0=A0=A0 The stories will be pos= ted anonymously by the Mod within 2 days of the end of the writing period a= nd then the voting period will begin. --0-2060085535-1221487518=:58126 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: alassante7 &= lt;alassante7@yahoo.com>
Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] Reminder = - September Topic - "Don't Tell Me, I Don't Want to Know"
To: A_Long_Exp= ected_Contest@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 10:00 AM=

We're half way through the month but its not= too late to write something! It can be a drabble or up to 10,000 words!
 
'Only one thing is clear to me,' said Otho, 'and that is that= you are doing exceedingly well out of= it. I insist on seeing the will.'

Otho would have been Bilbo'= s heir, but for the adoption of Frodo. He read the will carefully and snorted. It was, unfortunately, very clea= r and correct (according to the legal = customs of hobbits, which demand among other things seven signatures of witnesses in red ink).

'Foiled aga= in!' he said to his wife. 'And after waiting sixty years. Spoons? Fiddlesticks! ' He snapped his fingers under Frodo's nose and slumped off.=

Fellowship of the Rings - Chapter 1 A Long-expected Part= y

 

The theme for September is: =

 'Don't Tell Me, I Don't Want= to Know'

There are = some things that you wished you didn't know after you find out. And at time= s, its best left unsaid. Sometimes its to your benefit that someone else no= t know the full details. Or perhaps the consequences of knowing might not b= e worth the satisfaction of being told. Maybe Faramir would have preferred = not knowing the ring had driven Boromir to betraying the Fellowship. Or Fin= golfin might not have wanted to know his brother had betrayed him when= he saw the ships burning. But is it better to keep something so important = from someone? This is your chance to write about it!
It does not have to be based on documented events in the b= ook and the words in the theme do not have to be included in the fiction. E= ach writer has until September 30th<= /FONT> to turn in the story. We should have the LJ up by next week and will= post a link in the group to add it.
Good luck and happy writing!
 
=
Reminder of the Rules

=CC     = Each month a new topi= c/prompt/ challenge will be posted in the Yahoo group and on the LJ on the = first day of the month.

=CC     Writers hav= e until the final day of the month to write a fiction in response to the to= pic/challenge. The deadline will be posted with the topic and we will post = reminders as well.

= =CC     The story cannot= be a WIP and must be less than 10,000 words unless part of the challenge/t= opic is the length, then those rules would apply.

=CC &nbs= p;   The three categories of the contest are Slash, Het, and Gene= ral.

=CF     Slash includes any same sex= pairing even if there is not explicit sex.

=CF  &= nbsp;  Het includes any het romance/pairing even if there isn't explic= it sex.

=CF     General would be anything = that has no romantic pairings that pertain to the story.

=CF     If there are both Het an= d Slash pairings in the story then you will need to decide which pairing is= the primary pairing, then base your category on that. However if you put a= nything in Het that has Slash content, there needs to be a strong warning a= nd vice versa for Slash with Het content. If the main pairing is the only H= et couple while everyone else is slash =96 you might want to put it in slas= h anyway (and vice versa of course) since that is the most likely audience.=

=CF     If the pairing is canon and isn'= t a romance or part of the main story, it can still be general.

=A7         = For example a stor= y about the birth of Maedhros that mentions the marriage of Feanor and Nerd= anel can be marked as General since the focus isn't the romance of Feanor a= nd Nerdanel.

<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">=CC     If you want, you = can write a story in more than one category but can only submit one story p= er category.

=CC     <= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Stories can be rated u= p to NC17 but must have all warnings clearly marked. <= /DIV>

=CC     Writers can have a beta, but the beta cannot tell= anyone whose story it is.

=CC<= SPAN style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">     = At the = end of the 4 weeks, the stories need to be sent to the Challenge Mod alikatskorn= er@ rockfan.com

=CC<= SPAN style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">     = The story should have the following header:

Title:

Writer:=

Beta (if any):

Category:  (Gen, Slash, Het)

Rating:  (G, PG, PG13, R, NC-17)

Age: (Pre-First Age, Second Age, Third Age, Fourth = Age and Beyond)

Pairings/Characters : (y= ou can put mystery character if needed)

= Warnings: See below

Summary (o= ptional):

The header will be pos= ted with the story minus the beta and writers name.=

Warnings should be provided for:
=

=B7         = Non-Consensual Sexual Situations/Rape

=B7&nb= sp;        <= SPAN lang=3DEN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">BDSM

=B7      &nbs= p;  Torture

=B7&nb= sp;        <= SPAN lang=3DEN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Graphic Violence

=B7    &nb= sp;    Character Death

=B7   = ;      Incest

=B7     &nbs= p;   Anything that you believe might be obj= ectionable or bothersome to some readers or that you feel readers need to k= now before choosing to read your story.

=CC     The contest= organizers have arbitrarily decreed some works not suitable for this conte= st. Therefore, we will not accept entries containing:
<= P class=3DMsoNormal>=A7 =         MSTs  <= P class=3DMsoNormal>=A7 =         RPF =96 Real Person Fiction

=A7         = Bestiality

=A7         Underage or c= hild-based sexual relationships with adults, including child molestation

=CC     Writers cannot post the story anyw= here else or let anyone know which story theirs is until after voting i= s over. If we have reports of this rule being broken, the author's story wi= ll be removed from the contest completely.

=CC  &nbs= p;  The stories will be posted anonymously by the Mod within 2 days of= the end of the writing period and then the voting period will begin.


--0-2060085535-1221487518=:58126-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2279 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17921 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2008 23:21:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2008 23:21:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f13.google.com) (209.85.217.13) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2008 23:20:59 -0000 X-Received: by gxk6 with SMTP id 6so10259218gxk.16 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:20:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.151.155.9 with SMTP id h9mr818871ybo.8.1222384859346; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:20:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.151.117.5 with HTTP; Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:20:59 -0700 To: ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_153_25458389.1222384859329" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Jane Fink" Subject: Fic: Like Flames Aegnor, Galadriel..etc Rated: G 1/1 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=pYZTwwjJUDANthqajgGg2rYlJaQMtbhmTgpyFtZzlL5s X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 ------=_Part_153_25458389.1222384859329-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2281 Return-Path: X-Sender: eledhwen913@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21577 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2008 23:20:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Sep 2008 23:20:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n47c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.181) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Sep 2008 23:20:39 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n47.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Sep 2008 23:20:39 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Sep 2008 23:20:39 -0000 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:20:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "eledhwen913" Subject: Re: Fic: Like Flames Aegnor, Galadriel..etc Rated: G 1/1 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=324963557; y=NFOty8EnfYnUb5JEOtTZZzyWeKnhdrY0FiG_1OS8Ezba_4RoOI0 X-Yahoo-Profile: eledhwen913 This was a very enjoyable fic! I was so glad to see something about the Ho= use of Finarfin, Aegnor in particular, because he is always overshadowed b= y his more illustrious siblings, Galadriel and Finrod. I think you did a v= ery nice job in characterizing everyone. I like this because it gives the = a reader a glimpse into what the childhoods of Finarfin's children might h= ave been like. The story is a very clever way to explain Aegnor's unique h= airstyle. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Jane Fink" <= jhfink65@...> wrote: > > Title: Like Flames > Author: phyncke** > Characters: Aegnor, E=E4rwen, Artanis (Galadriel),= Finarfin, Finrod, Angrod, > Orodreth > Beta: keiliss > Email: jhfink@... = > Challenge: tripledogdare: Hair! > Rating: G > Warnings: sharp objects and= hairproducts > Disclaimer: I do not own these characters, they are the pro= perty of JRR > Tolkien and his estate. I have borrowed them for my own amu= sement and for > yours I hope. > Summary: Aegnor, the sharp flame, and how= he got his hair. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2282 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22934 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2008 22:48:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2008 22:48:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.124) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2008 22:48:35 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2008 22:48:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2008 22:48:35 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:48:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Second Ever Smut Writing Workshop! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=7e8R1_yQd8XXAaiTVEI80-xBfNHJszvmLkkwoSWfJqgS0-oGyA X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic Hi all, The LiveJournal Community "There and Back Again", an online writer= s' workshop for fanfic of all fandoms and o-fic, is hosting its second ever= SMUT workshop: http://community.livejournal.com/there_n_back/130641.html = In part 1 of the workshop we will read seven example scenes from fanfic an= d o-fic stories and discuss them. Part 2 of the workshop will feature an e= ssay, useful links and reading recommendations and, of course, more discuss= ion. In part 3 we want to identify an aspect that has been difficult for u= s to write in the past, write a short scene to improve on that, and discuss= the results. Everyone is invited to join and participate! Please note: Du= e to the nature of the workshop you have to be legal to read explicit adult= content in your country of residence to participate according to the TOS o= f LiveJournal. Well? Whatever are you still here for? I know that you're= dying to try and guess which example is fanfic and which was written by an= honest-to-goodness bestselling author! But honest - that doesn't matter a= t all. Read the examples. Read the questions. Think about what works for = you and why. Think about what you are missing and why. Join the discussion= . And most of all: HAVE FUN! Cheers, JunoMagic and Aranel Took *** "The= re and Back Again (and how to get there in the first place)" - an online wr= iters' workshop for fanfic & o-fic in LJ style: http://www.livejournal.com/= userinfo.bml?user=3Dthere_n_back From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2283 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39914 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2008 00:32:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2008 00:32:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2008 00:32:15 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so431309wah.26 for ; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 17:32:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.201.1 with SMTP id y1mr10078301waf.93.1222907534250; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 17:32:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Oct 2008 17:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 20:32:14 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8557_14863689.1222907534229" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Second Ever Smut Writing Workshop! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=SpAAO9uExsQQRJrJoldstoIXaojITIgOAZVofofUt3fUQrJntP9x X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_8557_14863689.1222907534229-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2284 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77399 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2008 09:51:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2008 09:51:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.128) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2008 09:51:34 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Oct 2008 09:51:34 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Oct 2008 09:51:34 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 09:51:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: Re: Second Ever Smut Writing Workshop! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=FAszfCg6-Mgp65SvJgNvRieqcKRvNY6r63pBvCds-HgMtpMaXQ X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > Juno, this sounds like a lot of fun! (And a very valuab= le experience!) I > hope that I can participate beyond just lurking. :) > = > I've also added this to the SWG Around the World and Web section as well,= if > you don't mind! > No, I don't mind at all! Thank you! The more, the= merrier! :-) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2285 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46758 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2008 15:40:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2008 15:40:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.131) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2008 15:40:51 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Oct 2008 15:40:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Oct 2008 15:40:51 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 15:40:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Announce: yes X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: SWG website currently offline X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=wY2xBC5MAhw-fmEx7l24v1omV7cRt7E5VCy0Ee4e61oXHV1Xk1YtAIY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, Right now when you go to the site you get the message: "This Accou= nt Has Been Suspended Please contact the support department as soon as poss= ible, and please have your site name ready." A member alerted us this morn= ing and we know what caused it. We want you to know that we're trying to ge= t this resolved with our host as soon as possible. For those worrying about= archived material and reviews, I made a back-up early this morning so noth= ing is lost (even though I don't think any harm will come to our precious m= aterial while its off line)! Thank you for your patience and understanding= , Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2286 Return-Path: X-Sender: melayton@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16278 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2008 15:50:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2008 15:50:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f10.google.com) (209.85.217.10) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2008 15:50:37 -0000 X-Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3so2349707gxk.0 for ; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:50:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.31.8 with SMTP id e8mr3596034age.29.1222962627855; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?192.168.1.101? (ool-457c056c.dyn.optonline.net [69.124.5.108]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 39sm1904513agb.23.2008.10.02.08.50.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <48E4EDBC.1040906@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 11:50:20 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Reply-To: melayton@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] SWG website currently offline X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=215130686; y=sOnlLUNm2j08NkK2HaxR0YpSLpBK4JUsRLdufd_7d3SlM1ZK7fpKCQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Rhapsody, Thanks for your quick action. I just noticed the site was offline (reading a MEFA story) and was about to email the admins; but I see you already beat me to it. I posted a brief message to the MEFA listserv saying that you guys knew about the problem and would have it fixed as soon as possible. Hope that's okay - I wouldn't want SWG members to lose readers, and often people are encouraged to know the site will be back up shortly. Marta rhapsody_the_bard wrote: > > > Hi all, > > Right now when you go to the site you get the message: > "This Account Has Been Suspended > Please contact the support department as soon as possible, and please > have your site name ready." > > A member alerted us this morning and we know what caused it. We want > you to know that we're trying to get this resolved with our host as > soon as possible. For those worrying about archived material and > reviews, I made a back-up early this morning so nothing is lost (even > though I don't think any harm will come to our precious material while > its off line)! > > Thank you for your patience and understanding, > > Rhapsody > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2287 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81385 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2008 20:27:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2008 20:27:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.124) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2008 20:27:31 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Oct 2008 20:27:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Oct 2008 20:27:31 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:27:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <48E4EDBC.1040906@gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: SWG website currently offline X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=nS9YsFmd9mI_zCTwNKwLorg8ecjT2Le4isWcdbEYbFECTeG1CXQP09g X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Marta wrote= : Hi Marta, > Thanks for your quick action. I just noticed the site was = offline > (reading a MEFA story) and was about to email the admins; but I = see > you already beat me to it. > > I posted a brief message to the MEFA= listserv saying that you guys > knew about the problem and would have it = fixed as soon as possible. > Hope that's okay - I wouldn't want SWG member= s to lose readers, and > often people are encouraged to know the site will= be back up > shortly. Thanks Marta, for this (we really don't mind!). I = personally didn't had time yet to do such things. We hope to have the site = back online soon! We will either let it know here or drop an e-mail to the = mefasupport addy. *hug* Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2288 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65200 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2008 21:11:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2008 21:11:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2008 21:11:13 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n7so639189wag.13 for ; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:11:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.131.9 with SMTP id e9mr182706wad.200.1222981872376; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:11:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Oct 2008 14:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 17:11:12 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8151_6509243.1222981872380" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] SWG website currently offline X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=A0C47hKXe5PGusF_ROMS5a7Wg3PAw9q69KsXblEOka3beV4ze2o6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_8151_6509243.1222981872380-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2289 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11535 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2008 23:36:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2008 23:36:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.176) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2008 23:36:33 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so670880waf.28 for ; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:36:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.153.2 with SMTP id a2mr360727wae.135.1222990592825; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:36:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 19:36:32 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9852_6633584.1222990592808" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: October 2008 Newsletter Available! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0yAhVOVDat4twe-etsDSAUMVkKw3tawLB1QnTJ9nXIlfu7rSTgMw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_9852_6633584.1222990592808-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2290 Return-Path: X-Sender: jilba25@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24332 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2008 23:50:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2008 23:50:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s25.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.161) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2008 23:50:46 -0000 X-Received: from BAY106-W37 ([65.54.161.137]) by bay0-omc2-s25.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 9 Oct 2008 16:50:46 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: jilba25@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_76eb3e02-af8c-43d8-8f8c-466bd6e760f2_" To: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:50:46 +1000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Oct 2008 23:50:46.0216 (UTC) FILETIME=[D9494480:01C92A69] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jillian Baade Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fic: Like Flames Aegnor, Galadriel..etc Rated: G 1/1 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7317848; y=hNL5WyRxupfdSPEr5_cZTk9k2pB7ichlgBBDh0DC_MwV0xqp X-Yahoo-Profile: jilba25au --_76eb3e02-af8c-43d8-8f8c-466bd6e760f2_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great story! I always wondered about Aegnor's hair and now I know. Loved h= ow you ended this with bringing in what a tough warrior he was in ME. Jil= lian To: ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com; LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogro= ups.com; silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com; SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogr= oups.comFrom: jhfink65@gmail.comDate: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:20:59 -0700Subjec= t: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fic: Like Flames Aegnor, Galadriel..etc Rated= : G 1/1 Title: Like FlamesAuthor: phynckeCharacters: Aegnor, E=E4rwen, Ar= tanis (Galadriel), Finarfin, Finrod, Angrod, OrodrethBeta: keilissEmail: jh= fink@sbcglobal.netChallenge: tripledogdare: Hair! Rating: GWarnings: sharp = objects and hairproductsDisclaimer: I do not own these characters, they are= the property of JRR Tolkien and his estate. I have borrowed them for my ow= n amusement and for yours I hope.Summary: Aegnor, the sharp flame, and how = he got his hair.Like Flames...his hair was notable, golden like his brother= s and his sister, but strong and stiff, rising upon his head like flames. (= Tolkien, Morgoth's Ring)It was the custom of elves to have long hair though= no one was sorrier for this habit than small Aegnor, the youngest son of F= inarfin. Each night was a struggle as his mama brushed and tugged on his un= cooperative, tangled, moppish head of hair. While its color was a rich, gol= den hue, it was of such a texture that it needed to be tended to diligently= with comb and brush, and this caused him much pain. He grimaced, he fussed= but never did he cry. He withstood this treatment bravely, sitting dutiful= ly on his bed while E=E4rwen patiently worked on his long, snarled tresses.= Finally she would be done and would reward him with a kiss to the cheek an= d a soft smile of appreciation. It almost made it worth it, almost. /---/O= ne afternoon, mother and child read comfortably in the parlor. Aegnor lay s= prawled out with his picture book written by his Uncle F=EBanoro. It matche= d illustrated drawings to a new fangled system of writing. They were all st= udying this in the school room and the child sounded the words out loud as = he read. His mama sat in her favorite arm chair, sewing quietly by the wind= ow. Every now and then she picked up a shiny pair of sharp scissors, snippe= d a stray thread and put them back in her basket. Those shears caught the l= ittle elf's eye. The metal gleamed in the light and he got an idea as he pe= ered at his mother over the top of his book. "Lady E=E4rwen, you are needed= in the kitchen. Cook has questions about tonight's menu." The servant retr= eated as soon as he was certain he had his Lady's attention. "You will be a= lright, darling?" she asked her son as she set the half-mended shirt on top= of the basket."Sure, Mama. I will just be here reading. I really like this= book.""Alright then. I won't be long."Aegnor hummed and feigned intent int= erest in the page he was on until his mother left the room in a swish of el= egant fabric. The youngster counted to ten before he crept across the plush= , ornate carpeting to rummage through the basket. Before you could say Manw= =EB's Mountain the parlor was deserted, the instructional book abandoned on= the sofa, and one pair of sharp scissors was now missing from Lady E=E4rwe= n's sewing kit. /---/Dinner was finally settled and by the time the Lady o= f the House made it back to the sitting room, her son was long gone, his re= ading left on the couch, teetering on the verge of falling to the floor. Sh= e sighed, picked up the book, returned it to its place on the shelf. She th= en went in search of her handsome husband. She had finished sewing for now = and wanted to see what Finarfin was up to this afternoon. Perhaps they coul= d take a walk or simply spend a little time alone together. She was sure th= at Aegnor was off at play with his brothers or Artanis and did not need che= cking on. /---/"Where is Aika*?" Little Artanis asked. "He is not here to d= ine," the youngest of the family astutely pointed out. Her brother always s= at to her left and that chair was empty. She liked everyone in their place,= and he could not pass the food that way if he was not there, now could he?= They began to serve tonight's meal of roast chicken and all assumed that t= he youngest son was washing up and would soon join them. And so he did, qui= te soon, as a matter of fact. All conversation stopped as Aegnor entered th= e room, walking to his seat to sit down. "Good evening, son." Finarfin fina= lly greeted his youngest boy, as though nothing untoward were evident. "Hel= lo, father. Pass the potatoes please, Arty." And she did, though she could = not help gawking at her elder brother. "Don't stare, darling. It is rude to= look at another person that way." E=E4rwen was careful not to look overlon= g herself but cast surreptitious glances at her youngest son, examining his= now spiked, cut and butchered hair with concealed alarm. She kicked hersel= f for leaving that sewing kit out in the living room. Aegnor was quite plea= sed with the outcome of his late afternoon's work in the bathroom. He had s= tood on the stepping stool with scissors in hand and cut his long, thick, a= lways tangling hair well above the shoulders and now it was unique, unlike = anyone else's in Valinor or all of Arda for that matter. No other elf had h= air like this, he thought, nor would they EVER. He did not look like anyone= else. He was different. He beamed at his family as he ate his dinner. Finr= od, Orodreth and Angrod shoveled their food in showing no visible reaction,= but they would be the first to defend their brother if anyone mocked him f= or his new hairstyle. No one would make fun of Aegnor, be they cousin or ot= herwise. His own brothers might tease, but that was perfectly acceptable be= havior in a sibling. Amused glances passed between the three elder sons of = Finarfin but they maintained their tacit silence. For now they would say no= thing, but later, that was another story; a post-dinner m=EAl=E9e was in or= der. Artanis squirmed on her chair as she tried to contain herself. She wan= ted to burst out with questions and touch that hair. It was standing on end= , straight out from her brother's head and it looked as though Aegnor had m= ade use of mother's hair pomade to add to this effect. He had spent hours i= n front of the mirror to get it just so and thought it looked fiery and das= hing. Each spike was purposefully placed and protruded sharply. "Sit still,= my dear. You are fidgeting.""I cannot help it, Mama!"Aegnor could tell she= wanted to touch it and so he said, "Arty+, go ahead. You can if you like."= She reached over and tentatively touched the spiky ends with her fingertips= . "Oooo," She giggled and did it again. "I supposed it will grow back again= ," Finarfin offered in comfort to his wife, who did not look at all happy. = "I don't WANT it to grow back. I like it this way," came the adamant respon= se. Aegnor was resolved. Both parents nodded and returned to their dinner. = /---/Later that very same night, Aegnor was tucked safely in his bed, hair= washed and slightly damp on his pillow. He awaited his goodnight kiss from= his mother. This time their routine had changed and he had not endured the= usual torturous combing session. This pleased him greatly. "If you like, d= arling, I can even this out some at the ends." E=E4rwen combed her fingers = through the short, ragged locks, and admitted to herself that they did not = tangle anymore."Sure, Mama.""Tomorrow then.""Thank you," Aegnor yawned wide= ly and promptly fell asleep as the Lady wondered what life had in store for= her turbulent child. /---/Aegnor travelled to Middle Earth with his kin a= nd became a warrior of great strength and prowess in the struggle against M= orgoth. His reputation spread far and wide. Evil creatures feared him fleei= ng before his wrath when he went to war against them. In battle, he possess= ed the aspect of fire, his hair added to that effect as he kept it cut to g= ive the appearance of flames around his head. He wore no helm. He fought wi= th the light of Aman burning in his eyes and when he struck he was like a f= ire bolt. He was Aikan=E1ro, the fell fire, the sharp flame. --------* Aika= =3Dnickname for Aikan=E1ro=3DAegnor's mother name in Quenya, means "fell fi= re." + Arty=3Dnickname for Artanis=3DGaladriel's father name in Quenya, mea= ns "noble woman." _______________________________________________________= __________ --_76eb3e02-af8c-43d8-8f8c-466bd6e760f2_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Great story! I always wondered about Aegnor's hair and now = I know. Loved how you ended this with bringing in what a tough warrior he w= as in ME.
 
Jillian


To: ofelvesandmenSLASH@= yahoogroups.com; LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com; silmarillion_fic@yahoo= groups.com; SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
From: jhfink65@gmai= l.com
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:20:59 -0700
Subject: [SilmarillionWri= tersGuild] Fic: Like Flames Aegnor, Galadriel..etc Rated: G 1/1

Title: Like Flames
= Author: phyncke
= Characters: Aegnor, E=E4rwen, Artanis (Galadriel), Finarfin, Finrod, Angrod= , Orodreth
Beta: keiliss
Email: jhfink@sbcglobal.net
Challenge: tri= pledogdare: Hair!
Rating: G
Warnings: sharp objects and hairproducts=
Disclaimer: I do not own these characters, they are the property of = JRR Tolkien and his estate. I have borrowed them for my own amusemen= t and for yours I hope.
Summary: Aegnor, the sharp flame, and how he got= his hair.

Like = Flames

...his hair was notable, golden like his brothers and his = sister, but strong and stiff, rising upon his head like flames. (Tolkie= n, Morgoth's Ring)

It was the custom of elves to have long hair thou= gh no one was sorrier for this habit than small Aegnor, the youngest son of= Finarfin. Each night was a struggle as his mama brushed and tugged on his = uncooperative, tangled, moppish head of hair. While its color was a rich, g= olden hue, it was of such a texture that it needed to be tended to diligent= ly with comb and brush, and this caused him much pain. He grimaced, he fuss= ed but never did he cry. He withstood this treatment bravely, sitting dutif= ully on his bed while E=E4rwen patiently worked on his long, snarled tresse= s. Finally she would be done and would reward him with a kiss to the cheek = and a soft smile of appreciation. It almost made it worth it, almost.
<= BR>
/---/


One afternoon, mother and child read comfortably in t= he parlor. Aegnor lay sprawled out with his picture book written by his Unc= le F=EBanoro. It matched illustrated drawings to a new fangled system of wr= iting. They were all studying this in the school room and the child sounded= the words out loud as he read. His mama sat in her favorite arm chair, sew= ing quietly by the window. Every now and then she picked up a shiny pair of= sharp scissors, snipped a stray thread and put them back in her basket. Th= ose shears caught the little elf's eye. The metal gleamed in the light and = he got an idea as he peered at his mother over the top of his book.
"Lady E=E4rwen, you are needed in the kitchen. Cook has questions about to= night's menu." The servant retreated as soon as he was certain he had his L= ady's attention.

"You will be alright, darling?" she asked her son = as she set the half-mended shirt on top of the basket.

"Sure, Mama. = I will just be here reading. I really like this book."

"Alright then= . I won't be long."

Aegnor hummed and feigned intent interest in the= page he was on until his mother left the room in a swish of elegant fabric= .

The youngster counted to ten before he crept across the plush, or= nate carpeting to rummage through the basket. Before you could say Manw=EB'= s Mountain the parlor was deserted, the instructional book abandoned on the= sofa, and one pair of sharp scissors was now missing from Lady E=E4rwen's = sewing kit.

/---/


Dinner was finally settl= ed and by the time the Lady of the House made it back to the sitting room, = her son was long gone, his reading left on the couch, teetering on the verg= e of falling to the floor. She sighed, picked up the book, returned it to i= ts place on the shelf. She then went in search of her handsome husband. She= had finished sewing for now and wanted to see what Finarfin was up to this= afternoon. Perhaps they could take a walk or simply spend a little time al= one together. She was sure that Aegnor was off at play with his brothers or= Artanis and did not need checking on.

/---/

"Where is Aika*?" Little Artanis asked. "He is not here to dine," the you= ngest of the family astutely pointed out.

Her brother always sat to= her left and that chair was empty. She liked everyone in their place, and = he could not pass the food that way if he was not there, now could he? They= began to serve tonight's meal of roast chicken and all assumed that the yo= ungest son was washing up and would soon join them. And so he did, quite so= on, as a matter of fact.

All conversation stopped as Aegnor entered= the room, walking to his seat to sit down.

"Good evening, son." Fi= narfin finally greeted his youngest boy, as though nothing untoward were ev= ident.

"Hello, father. Pass the potatoes please, Arty." And she did= , though she could not help gawking at her elder brother.

"Don't st= are, darling. It is rude to look at another person that way." E=E4rwen was = careful not to look overlong herself but cast surreptitious glances at her = youngest son, examining his now spiked, cut and butchered hair with conceal= ed alarm. She kicked herself for leaving that sewing kit out in the living = room.

Aegnor was quite pleased with the outcome of his late afterno= on's work in the bathroom. He had stood on the stepping stool with scissors= in hand and cut his long, thick, always tangling hair well above the shoul= ders and now it was unique, unlike anyone else's in Valinor or all of Arda = for that matter. No other elf had hair like this, he thought, nor would the= y EVER. He did not look like anyone else. He was different. He beamed at hi= s family as he ate his dinner.

Finrod, Orodreth and Angrod shoveled= their food in showing no visible reaction, but they would be the first to = defend their brother if anyone mocked him for his new hairstyle. No one wou= ld make fun of Aegnor, be they cousin or otherwise. His own brothers might = tease, but that was perfectly acceptable behavior in a sibling. Amused glan= ces passed between the three elder sons of Finarfin but they maintained the= ir tacit silence. For now they would say nothing, but later, that was anoth= er story; a post-dinner m=EAl=E9e was in order.

Artanis squirmed on= her chair as she tried to contain herself. She wanted to burst out with qu= estions and touch that hair. It was standing on end, straight out from her = brother's head and it looked as though Aegnor had made use of mother's hair= pomade to add to this effect. He had spent hours in front of the mirror to= get it just so and thought it looked fiery and dashing. Each spike was pur= posefully placed and protruded sharply.

"Sit still, my dear. You ar= e fidgeting."

"I cannot help it, Mama!"

Aegnor could tell she= wanted to touch it and so he said, "Arty+, go ahead. You can if you like."=

She reached over and tentatively touched the spiky ends with her fi= ngertips.

"Oooo," She giggled and did it again.

"I supposed= it will grow back again," Finarfin offered in comfort to his wife, who did= not look at all happy.

"I don't WANT it to grow back. I like it th= is way," came the adamant response. Aegnor was resolved.

Both paren= ts nodded and returned to their dinner.

/---/

=
Later that very same night, Aegnor was tucked safely in his bed, hair w= ashed and slightly damp on his pillow. He awaited his goodnight kiss from h= is mother. This time their routine had changed and he had not endured the u= sual torturous combing session. This pleased him greatly.

"If you l= ike, darling, I can even this out some at the ends." E=E4rwen combed her fi= ngers through the short, ragged locks, and admitted to herself that they di= d not tangle anymore.

"Sure, Mama."

"Tomorrow then."

"= Thank you," Aegnor yawned widely and promptly fell asleep as the Lady wonde= red what life had in store for her turbulent child.

/---/<= /CENTER>

Aegnor travelled to Middle Earth with his kin and= became a warrior of great strength and prowess in the struggle against Mor= goth. His reputation spread far and wide. Evil creatures feared him fleeing= before his wrath when he went to war against them.

In battle, he p= ossessed the aspect of fire, his hair added to that effect as he kept it cu= t to give the appearance of flames around his head. He wore no helm. He fou= ght with the light of Aman burning in his eyes and when he struck he was li= ke a fire bolt.

He was Aikan=E1ro, the fell fire, the sharp flame. =

--------

* Aika=3Dnickname for Aikan=E1ro=3DAegnor's mother = name in Quenya, means "fell fire."
+ Arty=3Dnickname for Artanis=3DGala= driel's father name in Quenya, means "noble woman."
--_76eb3e02-af8c-43d8-8f8c-466bd6e760f2_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2291 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61593 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2008 01:50:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Oct 2008 01:50:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2008 01:50:47 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 22326 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Oct 2008 01:50:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: .uDNeMEVM1lCqNHya8dN0E15Pte9eL9NAiXFbU1qNojZCUJK_6PWu5ZQMkU3HjFuu6P2dfyvOek6VmB7IjKxkYBJcZnlXCYVW4jlQ9LcRr4_Ts5hvJNjkIhGrNrck64CY1rgSx8hcnetDU3RaFcuzWzLYDlHz6lB5ah.MAbMhOwsFW0- X-Received: from [98.16.18.101] by web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:50:46 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218.2 Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:50:46 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, aragorn-legolas@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com, Julie_Fianna_Archive@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, TwinsOfElrond , Waters_of_Cuivienen@yahoogroups.com, ElvenLords@yahoogroups.com, SoA , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-704700157-1223689846=:22149" Message-ID: <24107.22149.qm@web53309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: ALEC - Voting on September's Stories and October's Theme X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=ESaAU9NYmqebPPdhvk_WqW3ah99gsoA5mtmW3y6v98cpQLdzJA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-704700157-1223689846=:22149 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We're currently voting on September's stories on our Live Journal. Here is = the link - http://community.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/4360.html ..::Death = and/or Dead Things::.. October's Theme! 'Come, Mr. Frodo! ' said Sam. '= Don't look at them! Gollum says we mustn't. Let's keep up with him and get = out of this cursed place as quick as we can - if we can! '`All right,' said= Frodo, as if returning out of a dream. 'I'm coming. Go on! '=A0=A0Hurrying= forward again, Sam tripped, catching his foot in some old root or tussock.= He fell and came heavily on his hands, which sank deep into sticky ooze, s= o that his face was brought close to the surface of the dark mere. There wa= s a faint hiss, a noisome smell went up, the lights flickered and danced an= d swirled. For a moment the water below him looked like some window, glazed= with grimy glass, through which he was peering. Wrenching his hands out of= the bog, he sprang back with a cry. 'There are dead things, dead faces in = the water,' he said with horror. 'Dead faces! '=A0=A0=A0=A0 Gollum laughed.= 'The Dead Marshes, yes, yes: that is their names,' he cackled. `You should= not look in when the candles are lit.'=A0=A0=A0=A0 `Who are they? What are= they? ' asked Sam shuddering, turning to Frodo, who was now behind him.=A0= =A0=A0=A0 'I don't know,' said Frodo in a dreamlike voice. 'But I have seen= them too. In the pools when the candles were lit. They lie in all the pool= s, pale faces, deep deep under the dark water. I saw them: grim faces and e= vil, and noble faces and sad. Many faces proud and fair, and weeds in their= silver hair. But all foul, all rotting, all dead. A fell light is in them.= ' Frodo hid his eyes in his hands. 'I know not who they are; but I thought = I saw there Men and Elves, and Orcs beside them.'=A0=A0=A0=A0 `Yes, yes,' s= aid Gollum. `All dead, all rotten. Elves and Men and Orcs. The Dead Marshes= . There was a great battle long ago, yes, so they told him when Smeagol was= young, when I was young before the Precious came. It was a great battle. T= all Men with long swords, and terrible Elves, and Orcses shrieking. They fo= ught on the plain for days and months at the Black Gates. But the Marshes h= ave grown since then, swallowed up the graves; always creeping, creeping.' = =A0Two Towers Chapter 2:=A0The Passage of the Marshes In honor of Hallowee= n (October 31) I thought it would be fitting=A0to write about Death and/or = Dead Things. Maybe you'll be inspired to write about the Nazgul or the thin= gs in the Dead Marshes. Or a death of a popular character (can be AU). Oooh= h or maybe there is a haunting going on! Spooky or tragic - beware of the= =A0tricksy lights, don't head the candles of corpses! It does not have to= be based on documented events in the book and the words in the theme do no= t have to be included in the fiction. Each writer has until=A0October 31st = PST=A0to turn in the story.=A0 To find ALEC - look here! http://community. = livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c/ and here - http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/A_Lo= ng_ Expected_ Contest/ Come join us! Good luck and happy writing! =A0= =A0 ~~**~~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats = the speed of dark? --0-704700157-1223689846=:22149 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

We're currently voting on September's stories on our Live Journal. Here is the link -

http://community.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/4360.html



..::Death and/or Dead Things::.. October's Theme!



'Come, Mr. Frodo! ' said Sam. 'Don't look at them! Gollum says we mustn't. Let's keep up with him and get out of this cursed place as quick as we can - if we can! '

`All right,' said Frodo, as if returning out of a dream. 'I'm coming. Go on! '

 

 Hurrying forward again, Sam tripped, catching his foot in some old root or tussock. He fell and came heavily on his hands, which sank deep into sticky ooze, so that his face was brought close to the surface of the dark mere. There was a faint hiss, a noisome smell went up, the lights flickered and danced and swirled. For a moment the water below him looked like some window, glazed with grimy glass, through which he was peering. Wrenching his hands out of the bog, he sprang back with a cry. 'There are dead things, dead faces in the water,' he said with horror. 'Dead faces! '

    

Gollum laughed. 'The Dead Marshes, yes, yes: that is their names,' he cackled. `You should not look in when the candles are lit.'

    

`Who are they? What are they? ' asked Sam shuddering, turning to Frodo, who was now behind him.

    

'I don't know,' said Frodo in a dreamlike voice. 'But I have seen them too. In the pools when the candles were lit. They lie in all the pools, pale faces, deep deep under the dark water. I saw them: grim faces and evil, and noble faces and sad. Many faces proud and fair, and weeds in their silver hair. But all foul, all rotting, all dead. A fell light is in them.' Frodo hid his eyes in his hands. 'I know not who they are; but I thought I saw there Men and Elves, and Orcs beside them.'

    

`Yes, yes,' said Gollum. `All dead, all rotten. Elves and Men and Orcs. The Dead Marshes. There was a great battle long ago, yes, so they told him when Smeagol was young, when I was young before the Precious came. It was a great battle. Tall Men with long swords, and terrible Elves, and Orcses shrieking. They fought on the plain for days and months at the Black Gates. But the Marshes have grown since then, swallowed up the graves; always creeping, creeping.'


 

Two Towers Chapter 2: The Passage of the Marshes



In honor of Halloween (October 31) I thought it would be fitting to write about Death and/or Dead Things. Maybe you'll be inspired to write about the Nazgul or the things in the Dead Marshes. Or a death of a popular character (can be AU). Ooohh or maybe there is a haunting going on! Spooky or tragic - beware of the tricksy lights, don't head the candles of corpses!

It does not have to be based on documented events in the book and the words in the theme do not have to be included in the fiction. Each writer has until October 31st PST to turn in the story.  To find ALEC - look here! http://community. livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c/
and here - http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/A_Long_ Expected_ Contest/


Come join us! Good luck and happy writing!



 
 
~~**~~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

--0-704700157-1223689846=:22149-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2292 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7528 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2008 21:37:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2008 21:37:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.244) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2008 21:37:06 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id f25so2700950rvb.14 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:37:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.18.1 with SMTP id v1mr6597117wai.107.1225229825992; Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:37:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:37:05 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5314_21420654.1225229825993" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Reminder: Just One Month Left for the MEFAs! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=029Pualv43SImGY7mkGSWvs6GhVq0b9Rz2FY2RwERZdtbhmKX3o2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_5314_21420654.1225229825993-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2293 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79454 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2008 16:12:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2008 16:12:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.173) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2008 16:12:31 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so2263252wfc.28 for ; Sun, 02 Nov 2008 08:12:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.172.12 with SMTP id u12mr6657171wfe.180.1225642351007; Sun, 02 Nov 2008 08:12:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Nov 2008 08:12:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 12:12:30 -0400 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_40057_14879306.1225642350977" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: November Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=qWEqUQ9Qfyvpm0Y01YuAJJUt6YnrCJ1pkNVjJ3kM_OKfcaG7erYS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_40057_14879306.1225642350977-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2294 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 953 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2008 21:41:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2008 21:41:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.174) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2008 21:41:55 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 27so88944wfd.4 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:41:54 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.125.9 with SMTP id x9mr3178079wfc.331.1226439713572; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:41:53 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:41:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:41:53 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_84397_12626080.1226439713560" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=4GG523u5XN-NITen7bpu_ljbpVnweJcWWdlCg4JtFrmcdjaprF_E X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_84397_12626080.1226439713560-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2295 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35808 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2008 21:58:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2008 21:58:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.91) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2008 21:58:08 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 89398 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Nov 2008 21:58:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: vqV_AIIVM1n9HXLdi3I9HsKKXLPLDBVqPfcbC3VSiRhX85UpIhQPlQpMaKaehHLlgc1.Or6rYk0U_sq5OLNUVp6WNxLxQPAF3nCE5PFUqQ5zJvzssNXIs5a6Fu4rLZXExEZk9O4y.nsTDJB6bTB59b_1LVoZYCUmkS23gtWvU4OtL4g- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:58:07 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:58:07 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-827040831-1226440687=:86969" Message-ID: <114694.86969.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=A_v64xoupm046TJQ79FhR7PbG6dLycioyNyzdBFJkZmaVMffpA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-827040831-1226440687=:86969 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for the Rec Dawn! =A0 =A0 ~~**~~ A day without sunshine is l= ike, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --- On Tue, 11/11/08, = Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Ne= ver Enough Heroes Blog To: "SWG" = Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 4:41 PM Hi, everyone, A few month= s ago, Michelle of Naice a Nilme did me the honor of asking me to write Sil= mfic recommendations for the site's recommendation blog, Never Enough Heroe= s. Because I have been up to my neck in real life, it has taken this long t= o get everything underway, but I have finally posted my first set of recs. = I will be attempting to post monthly, and each month's post will concern a = specific theme. This month's theme is stories about Maedhros and Thangorodr= im. This is an extremely popular topic, and I know I missed some really won= derful pieces about this event, but I hope that I've provided a decent star= ting point! http://recs. naiceanilme. com/2008/ dawn/hell- wrought-steel- = stories-about- maedhros- and-thangorodrim / Stories with slash are here: = http://recs. naiceanilme. com/2008/ dawn/maedhros- and-thangorodrim -storie= s- with-slash/ Please note that if you are interested in recs with slash, = you will need to register with the site and set your account to view slash = stories. More information is available on the About page: http://recs. nai= ceanilme. com/about/ If I've missed your favorite story, please feel free = to post a link to it here. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund ww= w.silmarillionwri tersguild. org --0-827040831-1226440687=:86969 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Thank you for the Rec Dawn!

 
 
~~**~~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?


--- On Tue, 11/11/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog
To: "SWG"
Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 4:41 PM

Hi, everyone,

A few months ago, Michelle of Naice a Nilme did me the honor of asking me to write Silmfic recommendations for the site's recommendation blog, Never Enough Heroes. Because I have been up to my neck in real life, it has taken this long to get everything underway, but I have finally posted my first set of recs. I will be attempting to post monthly, and each month's post will concern a specific theme. This month's theme is stories about Maedhros and Thangorodrim. This is an extremely popular topic, and I know I missed some really wonderful pieces about this event, but I hope that I've provided a decent starting point!

http://recs. naiceanilme. com/2008/ dawn/hell- wrought-steel- stories-about- maedhros- and-thangorodrim /

Stories with slash are here:

http://recs. naiceanilme. com/2008/ dawn/maedhros- and-thangorodrim -stories- with-slash/

Please note that if you are interested in recs with slash, you will need to register with the site and set your account to view slash stories. More information is available on the About page:

http://recs. naiceanilme. com/about/

If I've missed your favorite story, please feel free to post a link to it here.

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org

--0-827040831-1226440687=:86969-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2296 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2622 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2008 22:21:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2008 22:21:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2008 22:21:47 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.cc9.412fa94a (37058) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:21:36 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-DY09 (webmail-dy09.sim.aol.com [205.188.185.144]) by cia-db04.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.6) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB044-90c2491a056f337; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:21:35 -0500 References: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:21:35 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CB1262FE3B305B_1640_1DEF_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 39997-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com (205.188.185.144) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:21:35 -0500 Message-Id: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=xVIvsGKLkYA5wUnuLdrM27gQYzrf803UrZo823fBwM9j2zRnBAZI X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CB1262FE3B305B_1640_1DEF_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I can't figure it out. I registered for the site. Filled in the the profile, got my password, couldn't see anywhere where I could indicate I wanted to see the slash recommendations. Have been in and out of the profile at least 5 or 6 times now. I wish I could look at what you wroter there Dawn. But at this point, I think I am finished. If it is that hard to access doesn't seem to be like the rec is worth much of anything. Or maybe I am missing something really obvious? -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund To: SWG Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog Hi, everyone, A few months ago, Michelle of Naice a Nilme did me the honor of asking me to write Silmfic recommendations for the site's recommendation blog, Never Enough Heroes. Because I have been up to my neck in real life, it has taken this long to get everything underway, but I have finally posted my first set of recs. I will be attempting to post monthly, and each month's post will concern a specific theme. This month's theme is stories about Maedhros and Thangorodrim. This is an extremely popular topic, and I know I missed some really wonderful pieces about this event, but I hope that I've provided a decent starting point! http://recs.naiceanilme.com/2008/dawn/hell-wrought-steel-stories-about-maedhros-and-thangorodrim/ Stories with slash are here: http://recs.naiceanilme.com/2008/dawn/maedhros-and-thangorodrim-stories-with-slash/ Please note that if you are interested in recs with slash, you will need to register with the site and set your account to view slash stories. More information is available on the About page: http://recs.naiceanilme.com/about/ If I've missed your favorite story, please feel free to post a link to it here. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ----------MB_8CB1262FE3B305B_1640_1DEF_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I can't figure it out. I registered for the site. Filled in the the profile, got my password, couldn't see anywhere where I could indicate I wanted to see the slash recommendations. Have been in and out of the profile at least 5 or 6 times now. I wish I could look at what you wroter there Dawn. But at this point, I think I am finished. If it is that hard to access doesn't seem to be like the rec is worth much of anything. Or maybe I am missing something really obvious?

-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SWG
Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 4:41 pm
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog

Hi, everyone,

A few months ago, Michelle of Naice a Nilme did me the honor of asking me to write Silmfic recommendations for the site's recommendation blog, Never Enough Heroes. Because I have been up to my neck in real life, it has taken this long to get everything underway, but I have finally posted my first set of recs. I will be attempting to post monthly, and each month's post will concern a specific theme. This month's theme is stories about Maedhros and Thangorodrim. This is an extremely popular topic, and I know I missed some really wonderful pieces about this event, but I hope that I've provided a decent starting point!

http://recs.naiceanilme.com/2008/dawn/hell-wrought-steel-stories-about-maedhros-and-thangorodrim/

Stories with slash are here:

http://recs.naiceanilme.com/2008/dawn/maedhros-and-thangorodrim-stories-with-slash/

Please note that if you are interested in recs with slash, you will need to register with the site and set your account to view slash stories. More information is available on the About page:

http://recs.naiceanilme.com/about/

If I've missed your favorite story, please feel free to post a link to it here.

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
----------MB_8CB1262FE3B305B_1640_1DEF_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2297 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4466 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2008 22:25:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2008 22:25:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.174) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2008 22:25:43 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so100934wfc.14 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:25:43 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.166.1 with SMTP id o1mr3197738wfe.237.1226442342394; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:25:42 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:25:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:25:42 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_84975_20990793.1226442342400" References: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=1NimU7DfPJ-OoXVjkXfwmldVlJtXKOMUwKtP-TVYm_O4RaF-kS9b X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_84975_20990793.1226442342400-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2298 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41289 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2008 22:30:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2008 22:30:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2008 22:30:00 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.d50.39469975 (34896) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:29:46 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-DY09 (webmail-dy09.sim.aol.com [205.188.185.144]) by cia-da01.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.6) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA015-8850491a075a3cc; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:29:46 -0500 References: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:29:46 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CB126422E4C9F2_1640_1EE5_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 39997-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com (205.188.185.144) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:29:46 -0500 Message-Id: <8CB126422D8DE3F-1640-EFE@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=rhJn_sQZJX-S_SOO3hPD-HJSxyZSIF0bAofQiyOneoYHYGEGKkB- X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CB126422E4C9F2_1640_1EE5_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry to be such a whiner (and, of course, in this case my irritation was compounded by the feeling of being presented as a second-class writer not producing anything of any artistic or social value that people should be "protected" from). Put it down to menopause or the fact that I have a headache. -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 5:25 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog Hmmm ... you're right, Oshun, in that I can't figure it out either. I can view all posts, but I suspect that comes from being an author on the site. I'll email Michelle and post better instructions here. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ----------MB_8CB126422E4C9F2_1640_1EE5_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Sorry to be such a whiner (and, of course, in this case my irritation was compounded by the feeling of being presented as a second-class writer not producing anything of any artistic or social value that people should be "protected" from). Put it down to menopause or the fact that I have a headache.


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 5:25 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog

Hmmm ... you're right, Oshun, in that I can't figure it out either. I can view all posts, but I suspect that comes from being an author on the site. I'll email Michelle and post better instructions here.

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
----------MB_8CB126422E4C9F2_1640_1EE5_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2299 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4012 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2008 22:43:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2008 22:43:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.174) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2008 22:43:23 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 26so120398wfd.1 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:43:23 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.143.156.12 with SMTP id i12mr3200253wfo.320.1226443402998; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:43:22 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:43:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:43:22 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CB126422D8DE3F-1640-EFE@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_85179_28205372.1226443403002" References: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <8CB126422D8DE3F-1640-EFE@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ltp9P83UixKG-oYKV2MZQTaNbgqpjFx2qvUdjfHXWDBFl5vvewMz X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_85179_28205372.1226443403002-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2300 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84975 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2008 23:23:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2008 23:23:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2008 23:23:08 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c3c.4536fcaa (34898) for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:22:51 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-DY09 (webmail-dy09.sim.aol.com [205.188.185.144]) by cia-da01.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.6) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA017-8852491a13cb345; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:22:51 -0500 References: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <8CB126422D8DE3F-1640-EFE@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:22:51 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CB126B8D18F994_1640_2569_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 39997-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com (205.188.185.144) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:22:51 -0500 Message-Id: <8CB126B8CF071CD-1640-1240@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=E5iMHFLtW2KzwQW7PilO1q-f0HNQiZu_4LCfKOmzGjkC9IBo0RsP X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CB126B8D18F994_1640_2569_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thank you so much for recommending A New Day! I=C2=A0adore the way you desc= ribe it. I really like your choices. I have read and enormously appreciate= d all of these stories. I am wondering about the inclusion or omission of "= Under the Curse" by Finch. To me it is a classic. (I think it might have be= en the first?) I would have to recommend it myself, although, actually, I s= tarted A New Day as a semi-polemic against it. I thought it did not cover e= nough=C2=A0hard politics and the side of life that enables people to strugg= le onward and not just slit their wrists. Anyway, beautifully written and a= groundbreaker, I would have had to have put "Under the Curse" on any list = of Maedhros/Fingon/Thangorodrim fics. Thanks again. Hugs! --Oshun -----Or= iginal Message----- From: Dawn Felagund To: Silmar= illionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 5:43 pm Subject: = Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog= It's okay. No apologies are necessary. Fwiw, I agree with you for a = variety of creative and personal reasons, as you know. In the meantime (si= nce I think Michelle is six hours ahead of my timezone, so I don't know tha= t she'll get my email tonight or have a chance to reply), I will post my re= cs-with-slash here. Dawn "The Journey Back" by Mirien. Mirien's writing i= s always livid and emotionally intense and well suits the topic at hand. "T= he Journey Back" is just as the title suggests: The story opens on the ledg= e at Thangorodrim and follows Fingon and Maedhros on the difficult journey = home as Maedhros fights death and both reclaim memories and affections long= -forgotten. It ends in Mithrim, the first step in what will be a long heali= ng process for both Maedhros and the Noldorin people. http://mirien.livejou= rnal.com/21386.html "A New Day" by Oshun. Oshun is an author who frequentl= y avows that she does not like to write angst, yet she makes her novella ba= sed on one of the most angst-sodden events in Silmarillion canon work beaut= ifully using the tenderness, eroticism, and humor that is characteristic of= her style. In Oshun's own words, "Beginning immediately after Fingon's res= cue of Maedhros from the cliffs of Thangorodrim, it tells of how Fingon and= Maedhros reunite and together resolve to heal the divisions among the Nold= or." By focusing instead on the power of love to heal and the tangled polit= ical allegiances of the House of Finw=C3=AB in the early First Age, she cra= fts a story that rises above the usual angst to which the genre is prone to= depict a time in the history of the Noldor that is instead filled with hop= e. "A New Day" sparkles with delightful characters and political intrigue a= nd might well be the only Thangorodrim story that will make readers laugh. = http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D10= 7&index=3D1 "Flawed" by Feta. "Flawed" is actually an alternate-universe w= here Morgoth releases Maedhros, but reading it, I am struck with how many s= ubjects it touches upon that are pertinent to Thangorodrim stories of the m= ore canonical variety. Courage, hope, the power of love--these are all them= es that authors frequently take from this event, and Feta conveys them eloq= uently here as well in considering how the return of Maedhros and the love = between him and Fingon brought about the restoration of the Noldor. http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D330&index= =3D1 "Vodka" by ford_of_bruinen. While Tolkien's canon focuses on Maedhros= and Fingon in the rescue, most writers can't resist contemplating Maglor. = As his brother's regent during his captivity, Maglor would have borne prima= ry responsibility--and guilt--for the choice not to attempt a rescue. "Vodk= a" considers this premise and how Maglor copes by turning to dark muses tha= t will sing to him one of the greatest works of the Noldor. http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D238 "Shadow" by = Kenaz. This drabble considers the effect that losing a limb might have had = on one who was named for his beauty and how eventual acceptance of his marr= ing might come from love. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/h= ome/viewstory.php?sid=3D23 -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org ----------MB_8CB126B8D18F994_1640_2569_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Thank you so much for recommending A New Day! I adore the way= you describe it.

I really like your choices. I have read and enor= mously appreciated all of these stories. I am wondering about the inclusion= or omission of "Under the Curse" by Finch. To me it is a classic. (I think= it might have been the first?) I would have to recommend it myself, althou= gh, actually, I started A New Day as a semi-polemic against it. I thought i= t did not cover enough hard politics and the side of life that enables= people to struggle onward and not just slit their wrists. Anyway, beautifu= lly written and a groundbreaker, I would have had to have put "Under the Cu= rse" on any list of Maedhros/Fingon/Thangorodrim fics.

Thanks agai= n. Hugs! --Oshun

-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagun= d
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogrou= ps.com
Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 5:43 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWri= tersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog

It's okay. No apologies are necessary. Fwiw, I agree with you for = a variety of creative and personal reasons, as you know.

In the me= antime (since I think Michelle is six hours ahead of my timezone, so I don'= t know that she'll get my email tonight or have a chance to reply), I will = post my recs-with-slash here.

Dawn

"The Journey Back" by = Mirien. Mirien's writing is always livid and emotionally intense and well s= uits the topic at hand. "The Journey Back" is just as the title suggests: T= he story opens on the ledge at Thangorodrim and follows Fingon and Maedhros= on the difficult journey home as Maedhros fights death and both reclaim me= mories and affections long-forgotten. It ends in Mithrim, the first step in= what will be a long healing process for both Maedhros and the Noldorin peo= ple.
http://mirien.livejournal.com/21386.html

"A = New Day" by Oshun. Oshun is an author who frequently avows that she does no= t like to write angst, yet she makes her novella based on one of the most a= ngst-sodden events in Silmarillion canon work beautifully using the = tenderness, eroticism, and humor that is characteristic of her style. In Os= hun's own words, "Beginning immediately after Fingon's rescue of Maedhros f= rom the cliffs of Thangorodrim, it tells of how Fingon and Maedhros reunite= and together resolve to heal the divisions among the Noldor." By focusing = instead on the power of love to heal and the tangled political allegiances = of the House of Finw=C3=AB in the early First Age, she crafts a story that = rises above the usual angst to which the genre is prone to depict a time in= the history of the Noldor that is instead filled with hope. "A New Day" sp= arkles with delightful characters and political intrigue and might well be = the only Thangorodrim story that will make readers laugh.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D107&index=3D1
=
"Flawed" by Feta. "Flawed" is actually an alternate-universe where Mor= goth releases Maedhros, but reading it, I am struck with how many subjects = it touches upon that are pertinent to Thangorodrim stories of the more cano= nical variety. Courage, hope, the power of love--these are all themes that = authors frequently take from this event, and Feta conveys them eloquently h= ere as well in considering how the return of Maedhros and the love between = him and Fingon brought about the restoration of the Noldor.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D330&index=3D1
"Vodka" by ford_of_bruinen. While Tolkien's canon focuses on Maedhro= s and Fingon in the rescue, most writers can't resist contemplating Maglor.= As his brother's regent during his captivity, Maglor would have borne prim= ary responsibility--and guilt--for the choice not to attempt a rescue.= "Vodka" considers this premise and how Maglor copes by turning to dark mus= es that will sing to him one of the greatest works of the Noldor.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/= archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D238

"Shadow" by Ken= az. This drabble considers the effect that losing a limb might have had on = one who was named for his beauty and how eventual acceptance of his marring= might come from love.
http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D2= 3

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersgu= ild.org
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----------MB_8CB126B8D18F994_1640_2569_WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2301 Return-Path: X-Sender: lady.of.kanafinwe@googlemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48502 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2008 23:32:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2008 23:32:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.244) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2008 23:32:29 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d14so74539and.26 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:32:29 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.100.172.17 with SMTP id u17mr3618523ane.105.1226446348736; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:32:28 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.100.163.6 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:32:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:32:28 +0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_73224_2166548.1226446348712" References: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <8CB126422D8DE3F-1640-EFE@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 08718116d773f3af X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Jen Colley" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=144927978; y=74yxoZ-XepPrB7YRmN0yAe4grtvAJgjfOHt3lT5-EMCD6LrPBWZAu_A X-Yahoo-Profile: mirien_isilion ------=_Part_73224_2166548.1226446348712-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2302 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56297 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2008 00:28:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2008 00:28:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.168) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2008 00:28:01 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so147474wfg.7 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:28:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.241.10 with SMTP id o10mr3240276wfh.50.1226449680658; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:28:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:28:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:28:00 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CB126B8CF071CD-1640-1240@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_86299_10308937.1226449680659" References: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <8CB126422D8DE3F-1640-EFE@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <8CB126B8CF071CD-1640-1240@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=pK8YJY_ZijNlDOEN8WzcbkHZ1oyojiUsMC6HCNYdSxKUUKz3Vj-y X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_86299_10308937.1226449680659-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2303 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86892 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2008 13:13:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2008 13:13:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.125.48) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2008 13:13:18 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 28339 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2008 13:13:18 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: SWijTMAVM1kAT6vAuj_uRJ3sN5cIlTZw6nTvRaCbtFDkcMW1HArxmAVBtfQ515RVCdhLAlP7XTZDMmUE5yTX7Pl0Naio4YlTAeX9LFywur70RLk8mIK.M0.7bTazeXJYEsRbf0THER8hA8NHKXEBpqf.wznGQ3cgoZZ7sknMcaQ3Ofm6MUCM7FGDrlsl X-Received: from [190.191.113.15] by web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 05:13:18 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1155.20 YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 References: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <8CB126422D8DE3F-1640-EFE@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 05:13:18 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1659433249-1226495598=:28287" Message-ID: <460084.28287.qm@web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Angelica Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=PJxGxu9dSOrKwVvqCQhrOd6yQNu1sHtgFT_33Jb2jWGn7K8TqcEG3Tzy X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --0-1659433249-1226495598=:28287 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm on the same boat as Oshun: I registered and everything but can't get /d= on't know how to get beyond the first page of nonslash recommendations. If= you allowed me, I'd add one of my favourites ever=A0to that category: Talk= ing Hurts by Lipstick, another classic, I think. Angelica ______________= __________________ From: Dawn Felagund To: Silmari= llionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:43:22 = PM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough= Heroes Blog It's okay. No apologies are necessary. Fwiw, I agree with yo= u for a variety of creative and personal reasons, as you know. In the mean= time (since I think Michelle is six hours ahead of my timezone, so I don't = know that she'll get my email tonight or have a chance to reply), I will po= st my recs-with-slash here. Dawn "The Journey Back" by Mirien. Mirien's w= riting is always livid and emotionally intense and well suits the topic at = hand. "The Journey Back" is just as the title suggests: The story opens on = the ledge at Thangorodrim and follows Fingon and Maedhros on the difficult = journey home as Maedhros fights death and both reclaim memories and affecti= ons long-forgotten. It ends in Mithrim, the first step in what will be a lo= ng healing process for both Maedhros and the Noldorin people. http://mirien= . livejournal. com/21386. html "A New Day" by Oshun. Oshun is an author wh= o frequently avows that she does not like to write angst, yet she makes her= novella based on one of the most angst-sodden events in Silmarillion canon= work beautifully using the tenderness, eroticism, and humor that is charac= teristic of her style. In Oshun's own words, "Beginning immediately after F= ingon's rescue of Maedhros from the cliffs of Thangorodrim, it tells of how= Fingon and Maedhros reunite and together resolve to heal the divisions amo= ng the Noldor." By focusing instead on the power of love to heal and the ta= ngled political allegiances of the House of Finw=EB in the early First Age,= she crafts a story that rises above the usual angst to which the genre is = prone to depict a time in the history of the Noldor that is instead filled = with hope. "A New Day" sparkles with delightful characters and political in= trigue and might well be the only Thangorodrim story that will make readers= laugh. http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. = php?sid=3D107&index=3D1 "Flawed" by Feta. "Flawed" is actually an alternat= e-universe where Morgoth releases Maedhros, but reading it, I am struck wit= h how many subjects it touches upon that are pertinent to Thangorodrim stor= ies of the more canonical variety. Courage, hope, the power of love--these = are all themes that authors frequently take from this event, and Feta conve= ys them eloquently here as well in considering how the return of Maedhros a= nd the love between him and Fingon brought about the restoration of the Nol= dor. http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php= ?sid=3D330&index=3D1 "Vodka" by ford_of_bruinen. While Tolkien's canon foc= uses on Maedhros and Fingon in the rescue, most writers can't resist contem= plating Maglor. As his brother's regent during his captivity, Maglor would = have borne primary responsibility- -and guilt--for the choice not to attemp= t a rescue. "Vodka" considers this premise and how Maglor copes by turning = to dark muses that will sing to him one of the greatest works of the Noldor= . http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?si= d=3D238 "Shadow" by Kenaz. This drabble considers the effect that losing a= limb might have had on one who was named for his beauty and how eventual a= cceptance of his marring might come from love. http://www.silmaril lionwrit= ersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?sid=3D23 -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagun= d www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org --0-1659433249-1226495598=:28287 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm on the same boat as Oshun: I registered and ev= erything but can't get /don't know how to get beyond the first page of nons= lash recommendations.
If you allowed me, I'd add one of my favo= urites ever to that category: Talking Hurts by Lipstick, another class= ic, I think.
Angelica


___________________________= _____
From: Dawn Felagund
To: Silmaril= lionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:43:2= 2 PM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never E= nough Heroes Blog


It's okay. No apologies are necessary. Fwiw, I= agree with you for a variety of creative and personal reasons, as you know= .

In the meantime (since I think Michelle is six hours ahead of my t= imezone, so I don't know that she'll get my email tonight or have a chance = to reply), I will post my recs-with-slash here.

Dawn

"The Jou= rney Back" by Mirien. Mirien's writing is always livid and emotionally inte= nse and well suits the topic at hand. "The Journey Back" is just as the tit= le suggests: The story opens on the ledge at Thangorodrim and follows Fingo= n and Maedhros on the difficult journey home as Maedhros fights death and b= oth reclaim memories and affections long-forgotten. It ends in Mithrim, th= e first step in what will be a long healing process for both Maedhros and t= he Noldorin people.
http://mi= rien. livejournal. com/21386. html

"A New Day" by Oshun. Oshun i= s an author who frequently avows that she does not like to write angst, yet= she makes her novella based on one of the most angst-sodden events in Silm= arillion canon work beautifully using the tenderness, eroticism, and humor = that is characteristic of her style. In Oshun's own words, "Beginning immed= iately after Fingon's rescue of Maedhros from the cliffs of Thangorodrim, i= t tells of how Fingon and Maedhros reunite and together resolve to heal the= divisions among the Noldor." By focusing instead on the power of love to h= eal and the tangled political allegiances of the House of Finw=EB in the ea= rly First Age, she crafts a story that rises above the usual angst to which= the genre is prone to depict a time in the history of the Noldor that is = instead filled with hope. "A New Day" sparkles with delightful characters a= nd political intrigue and might well be the only Thangorodrim story that wi= ll make readers laugh.
= http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?= sid=3D107&index=3D1

"Flawed" by Feta. "Flawed" is actually an al= ternate-universe where Morgoth releases Maedhros, but reading it, I am stru= ck with how many subjects it touches upon that are pertinent to Thangorodri= m stories of the more canonical variety. Courage, hope, the power of love--= these are all themes that authors frequently take from this event, and Feta= conveys them eloquently here as well in considering how the return of Maed= hros and the love between him and Fingon brought about the restoration of t= he Noldor.
http://www.s= ilmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?sid=3D330&a= mp;index=3D1

"Vodka" by ford_of_bruinen. While Tolkien's canon focus= es on Maedhros and Fingon in the rescue, most writers can't resist contempl= ating Maglor. As his brother's regent during his captivity, Maglor would ha= ve borne primary responsibility- -and guilt--for the choice not to attempt = a rescue. "Vodka" considers this premise and how Maglor copes by turning to= dark muses that will sing to him one of the greatest works of the Noldor.<= BR>http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?sid=3D238

"Shado= w" by Kenaz. This drabble considers the effect that losing a limb might hav= e had on one who was named for his beauty and how eventual acceptance of hi= s marring might come from love.
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/views= tory. php?sid=3D23

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillio= nwri tersguild. org

--0-1659433249-1226495598=:28287-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2304 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67156 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2008 19:56:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2008 19:56:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.174) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2008 19:56:08 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so785441wfa.8 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:56:08 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.246.19 with SMTP id t19mr3603837wfh.309.1226519768210; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:56:08 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:56:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:56:08 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <460084.28287.qm@web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11858_21612401.1226519768194" References: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <8CB126422D8DE3F-1640-EFE@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <460084.28287.qm@web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Xwv6ELcPHbk2qyq4ah_hq9XEnWr1mMDUwAT-CVjaP_nJJVLvEGQX X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_11858_21612401.1226519768194-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2305 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66778 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2008 21:18:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2008 21:18:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2008 21:18:07 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.d2a.39705b81 (37049) for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:17:56 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.148]) by cia-db03.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.6) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB037-5c5b491b47f72ed; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:17:54 -0500 X-Received: from WEBMAIL-DZ19 (webmail-dz19.sim.aol.com [205.188.185.33]) by smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com (v121_r3.13) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMB011-5c5b491b47f72ed; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:17:43 -0500 References: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <8CB126422D8DE3F-1640-EFE@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <460084.28287.qm@web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:17:42 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CB13233C1BEB52_11F4_17AC_WEBMAIL-DZ19.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 39997-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by WEBMAIL-DZ19.sysops.aol.com (205.188.185.33) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:17:42 -0500 Message-Id: <8CB13233C0FFF9A-11F4-B53@WEBMAIL-DZ19.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=yaP5iiVBkIci_UCCIlM6jv3kxEPUPzUwtvldXwErLMYq0cRwN850 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CB13233C1BEB52_11F4_17AC_WEBMAIL-DZ19.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I misunderstood things to be much simpler than they really were and didn't mean to cause some of the frustration that I did. Thank you so much, Dawn. I admit to a sore spot,?being one of those people who consider sex basically healthy and pain, violence and torture not so much so... -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 2:56 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog Hi, everyone, ? For those who wanted to set your accounts on the Never Enough Heroes blog to view slash recommendations, I received a reply from Michelle, who runs the site. She needs to manually set your account, so please send her an email at naiceanilme AT gmail DOT?com?if you'd like her to do so. Oshun, I mentioned you specifically as wanting your account set as such, so it should be taken care of. I wasn't aware of anyone else wanting this done when I sent my email last night, so you'll need to let Michelle know or email me off-list; I will forward any requests I receive on to her. ? My apologies for the confusion in this. I misunderstood things to be much simpler than they really were and didn't mean to cause some of the frustration that I did. Here's to hoping next month goes smoother! :) ? Best regards, ? Dawn having a hard time replacing her "owner" hat with "member" hat and lacking immediate answers to problems ;) ? -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ----------MB_8CB13233C1BEB52_11F4_17AC_WEBMAIL-DZ19.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I misunderstood things to be much simpler than they really were and didn't mean to cause some of the frustration that I did.

Thank you so much, Dawn. I admit to a sore spot, being one of those people who consider sex basically healthy and pain, violence and torture not so much so...


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 2:56 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog

Hi, everyone,
 
For those who wanted to set your accounts on the Never Enough Heroes blog to view slash recommendations, I received a reply from Michelle, who runs the site. She needs to manually set your account, so please send her an email at naiceanilme AT gmail DOT com if you'd like her to do so. Oshun, I mentioned you specifically as wanting your account set as such, so it should be taken care of. I wasn't aware of anyone else wanting this done when I sent my email last night, so you'll need to let Michelle know or email me off-list; I will forward any requests I receive on to her.
 
My apologies for the confusion in this. I misunderstood things to be much simpler than they really were and didn't mean to cause some of the frustration that I did. Here's to hoping next month goes smoother! :)
 
Best regards,
 
Dawn
having a hard time replacing her "owner" hat with "member" hat and lacking immediate answers to problems ;)
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
----------MB_8CB13233C1BEB52_11F4_17AC_WEBMAIL-DZ19.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2306 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96526 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2008 22:16:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2008 22:16:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.104) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2008 22:15:59 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 77686 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2008 22:15:58 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: bV_PLqIVM1lW.3S4_hOdjJxrNbqOaLGLPXC0Zq5xS.jJKQNe6qUgEjnSA0JCs3h4meCcW9yEGhalVMqsJ0PaYDerIDz3jPKj_5XRPDa3eBQobExeynZkbmSIcVFxljD_ExJ_9npgigJOHQvXDYgOYjP8YDZ7GKg2kUHCXDhTCVGRVg-- X-Received: from [24.66.94.140] by web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:15:58 GMT Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:15:58 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CB13233C0FFF9A-11F4-B53@WEBMAIL-DZ19.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <857126.76972.qm@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=Gcru95N3B7Tnr1XN-z-rjQlsRfag4YNEgkjpJwO0X8mwwMEMBQ X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: > I admit to a sore > spot, being one of those people who consider sex > basically healthy and pain, violence and torture not > so much so... You're not alone. I also find it a little offensive that anything to do with slash must be hidden inside a hard-to-access members-only area. CGL From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2307 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrapcat21@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72352 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2008 00:20:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2008 00:20:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.148) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2008 00:20:08 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Nov 2008 00:20:08 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Nov 2008 00:20:08 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:20:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <857126.76972.qm@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "keiliss" Subject: Re: Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=238321209; y=0nAHBrc-aECYoeciQCctO6wdz_LRW3GjWJ5Y_JQzu5iE52-KLQ X-Yahoo-Profile: keiliss It's a bit like asking for the key to the locked section of the library so = we can indulge our perversion without it contaminating others. Does this ap= ply to all sexual content, both het and slash, plus graphic violence? If no= t, it strikes me as rather offensive. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@ya= hoogroups.com, CGL wrote: > > > --- heartofoshun@... wrot= e: > > I admit to a sore > > spot, being one of those people who consider s= ex > > basically healthy and pain, violence and torture not > > so much so.= .. > > You're not alone. I also find it a little offensive > that anythin= g to do with slash must be hidden inside a > hard-to-access members-only ar= ea. > > CGL > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2308 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24332 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2008 00:55:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2008 00:55:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.175) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2008 00:55:21 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so1109116wfc.24 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:55:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.153.8 with SMTP id a8mr100615wfe.328.1226624121316; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:55:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:55:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:55:21 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_830_21837466.1226624121304" References: <857126.76972.qm@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=60BO5sFR8HXYLr4HDtFCrFfXyXnJ4sCy_5ifxaOBx-4uLL4rRBsh X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_830_21837466.1226624121304-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2309 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72124 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2008 01:51:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2008 01:51:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.100) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2008 01:51:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 20587 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2008 01:51:38 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: PMyey08VM1n.sYdP8ZhbepCM1oHaShjy7C_mjgUTuC6rnqVspswn3XPXfxdbGhupvNp1w6lh_qzjGSOcbKaI6_TeuyqJJUUC5KZe8djR5OpHD1zufXLj58dGFEy1CVwJEAYXUIjFMdGCAE__W5aQyVXlbhccSa_oNcCxaI3r6WZzlKw- X-Received: from [192.154.46.2] by web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:51:37 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:51:37 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1503172411-1226627497=:18596" Message-ID: <25516.18596.qm@web53310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=yORZmdme3BcGayPDJ67X-1rNVlO8Xp147Xwj3ZGnKgK1jPG3rg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1503172411-1226627497=:18596 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm pretty sure that all sexual content is that way since that site is indi= rectly linked to two other sites and yahoo group that don't even allow sexu= al content on the site (NAN and Teitho and the yahoo group Aragorn Angst) = =A0 =A0 ~~**~~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so wh= ats the speed of dark? --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re:= [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blo= g To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 13,= 2008, 7:55 PM Regarding the slash policies on the Never Enough Heroe= s blog, I would suggest that those with comments or questions contact Miche= lle--the site owner--directly. As far as I know, she does not follow this g= roup, and as my role in her project goes no further than "she who writes th= e Silmfic recs" (and that for only one month so far), then I really don't f= eel qualified to speak about her site policies or the reasoning behind them= . As a site owner myself, I can say that there is nothing more frustrating= than learning that someone had a question or concern about our group and d= id not approach me (or one of my comods) about it. I'm sure Michelle would = appreciate hearing from those who have questions or comments on her project= . Here is the contact link: http://recs. naiceanilme. com/contact/ I thin= k that just about everyone here knows that I have my own strong views on sl= ash and how it is treated in fandom. :) I'll spare you all the diatribe exc= ept to say that I understand-- and agree--with much of what has been said h= ere so far and leave it at that. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Fela= gund www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org --0-1503172411-1226627497=:18596 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I'm pretty sure that all sexual content is that way since that site is indirectly linked to two other sites and yahoo group that don't even allow sexual content on the site (NAN and Teitho and the yahoo group Aragorn Angst)

 
 
~~**~~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?


--- On Thu, 11/13/08, Dawn Felagund wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 7:55 PM

Regarding the slash policies on the Never Enough Heroes blog, I would suggest that those with comments or questions contact Michelle--the site owner--directly. As far as I know, she does not follow this group, and as my role in her project goes no further than "she who writes the Silmfic recs" (and that for only one month so far), then I really don't feel qualified to speak about her site policies or the reasoning behind them.

As a site owner myself, I can say that there is nothing more frustrating than learning that someone had a question or concern about our group and did not approach me (or one of my comods) about it. I'm sure Michelle would appreciate hearing from those who have questions or comments on her project. Here is the contact link:

http://recs. naiceanilme. com/contact/

I think that just about everyone here knows that I have my own strong views on slash and how it is treated in fandom. :) I'll spare you all the diatribe except to say that I understand-- and agree--with much of what has been said here so far and leave it at that.

All the best,

Dawn


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwri tersguild. org

--0-1503172411-1226627497=:18596-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2310 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77531 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2008 15:49:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2008 15:49:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.152) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2008 15:49:36 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 3so667941yxi.74 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:49:35 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.81.7 with SMTP id e7mr468863wfb.158.1226677466884; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:44:26 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:44:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:44:26 -0500 To: SWG , "Henneth Annun" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8390_25731499.1226677466884" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Help with a Poll about Maedhros, Maglor, Elrond, and Elros X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=yUE87bC2kS2-_2CKP2dzLEZ1KSrJQvzWXffckIO-kT7GMQmE_2KF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_8390_25731499.1226677466884-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2311 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84974 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2008 11:46:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2008 11:46:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s14.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.152) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2008 11:46:26 -0000 X-Received: from COL103-W6 ([65.55.34.137]) by col0-omc3-s14.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 15 Nov 2008 03:46:26 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_ee35a1fb-426f-402f-a305-b6c09ac1855d_" To: Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 11:46:26 +0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <460084.28287.qm@web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <8CB126422D8DE3F-1640-EFE@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <460084.28287.qm@web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2008 11:46:26.0208 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA631200:01C94717] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Unsung Heroine Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=JH2QPQ9--IvuAhofTy5fayQkWvSxFLtixSjU5M-yEMFQYglG X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende --_ee35a1fb-426f-402f-a305-b6c09ac1855d_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd second that. It's one of those fics I can read over and over again. Ce= rtainly one of my all-time favourites. @Dawn: So I simply e-mail the site= owner if I want to be able to read the slash recs via my account? Love, = UH >If you allowed me, I'd add one of my favourites ever to that >ca= tegory: Talking Hurts by Lipstick, another classic, I think.> >Angelica _= _______________________________From: Dawn Felagund = To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.comSent: Tuesday, November 11, 200= 8 7:43:22 PMSubject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Nev= er Enough Heroes BlogIt's okay. No apologies are necessary. Fwiw, I agree w= ith you for a variety of creative and personal reasons, as you know.In the = meantime (since I think Michelle is six hours ahead of my timezone, so I do= n't know that she'll get my email tonight or have a chance to reply), I wil= l post my recs-with-slash here.Dawn"The Journey Back" by Mirien. Mirien's w= riting is always livid and emotionally intense and well suits the topic at = hand. "The Journey Back" is just as the title suggests: The story opens on = the ledge at Thangorodrim and follows Fingon and Maedhros on the difficult = journey home as Maedhros fights death and both reclaim memories and affecti= ons long-forgotten. It ends in Mithrim, the first step in what will be a lo= ng healing process for both Maedhros and the Noldorin people.http://mirien.= livejournal. com/21386. html"A New Day" by Oshun. Oshun is an author who f= requently avows that she does not like to write angst, yet she makes her no= vella based on one of the most angst-sodden events in Silmarillion canon wo= rk beautifully using the tenderness, eroticism, and humor that is character= istic of her style. In Oshun's own words, "Beginning immediately after Fing= on's rescue of Maedhros from the cliffs of Thangorodrim, it tells of how Fi= ngon and Maedhros reunite and together resolve to heal the divisions among = the Noldor." By focusing instead on the power of love to heal and the tangl= ed political allegiances of the House of Finw=EB in the early First Age, sh= e crafts a story that rises above the usual angst to which the genre is pro= ne to depict a time in the history of the Noldor that is instead filled wit= h hope. "A New Day" sparkles with delightful characters and political intri= gue and might well be the only Thangorodrim story that will make readers la= ugh.http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?= sid=3D107&index=3D1"Flawed" by Feta. "Flawed" is actually an alternate-univ= erse where Morgoth releases Maedhros, but reading it, I am struck with how = many subjects it touches upon that are pertinent to Thangorodrim stories of= the more canonical variety. Courage, hope, the power of love--these are al= l themes that authors frequently take from this event, and Feta conveys the= m eloquently here as well in considering how the return of Maedhros and the= love between him and Fingon brought about the restoration of the Noldor.ht= tp://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?sid=3D= 330&index=3D1"Vodka" by ford_of_bruinen. While Tolkien's canon focuses on M= aedhros and Fingon in the rescue, most writers can't resist contemplating M= aglor. As his brother's regent during his captivity, Maglor would have born= e primary responsibility- -and guilt--for the choice not to attempt a rescu= e. "Vodka" considers this premise and how Maglor copes by turning to dark m= uses that will sing to him one of the greatest works of the Noldor.http://w= ww.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?sid=3D238"Sh= adow" by Kenaz. This drabble considers the effect that losing a limb might = have had on one who was named for his beauty and how eventual acceptance of= his marring might come from love.http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org= /archive/ home/viewstory. php?sid=3D23-- ~oOo~Dawn Felagundwww.silmarillion= wri tersguild. org _________________________________________________= ________________ Hotmail to go! Hol' Dir Hotmail aufs Handy! http://windows= livemobile.msn.com/BrowserServiceHotmail.aspx?lang=3Dde-de --_ee35a1fb-426f-402f-a305-b6c09ac1855d_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd second that. It's one of those = fics I can read over and over again. Certainly one of my all-time favo= urites.
 
@Dawn: So I simply e-mail the site owner if I want t= o be able to read the slash recs via my account?
Love,
 =
UH


>If you allowed me, I'd add one of my favourites ever t= o that >category: Talking Hurts by Lipstick, another classic, I think.>
>Angelica
 


________________________________
From: Dawn Fela= gund gmail.com>
To: SilmarillionWritersGui= ld@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:43:22 PM
S= ubject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enoug= h Heroes Blog


It's okay. No apologies are necessary. Fwiw, I agr= ee with you for a variety of creative and personal reasons, as you know.
In the meantime (since I think Michelle is six hours ahead of my timez= one, so I don't know that she'll get my email tonight or have a chance to r= eply), I will post my recs-with-slash here.

Dawn

"The Journey= Back" by Mirien. Mirien's writing is always livid and emotionally intense = and well suits the topic at hand. "The Journey Back" is just as the title s= uggests: The story opens on the ledge at Thangorodrim and follows Fingon an= d Maedhros on the difficult journey home as Maedhros fights death and both = reclaim memories and affections long-forgotten. It ends in Mithrim, the fir= st step in what will be a long healing process for both Maedhros and the No= ldorin people.
http://mirien. livejournal= . com/21386. html

"A New Day" by Oshun. Oshun is an author who frequ= ently avows that she does not like to write angst, yet she makes her novell= a based on one of the most angst-sodden events in Silmarillion canon work b= eautifully using the tenderness, eroticism, and humor that is characteristi= c of her style. In Oshun's own words, "Beginning immediately after Fingon's= rescue of Maedhros from the cliffs of Thangorodrim, it tells of how Fingon= and Maedhros reunite and together resolve to heal the divisions among the = Noldor." By focusing instead on the power of love to heal and the tangled p= olitical allegiances of the House of Finw=EB in the early First Age, she cr= afts a story that rises above the usual angst to which the genre is prone t= o depict a time in the history of the Noldor that is instead filled with ho= pe. "A New Day" sparkles with delightful characters and political intrigue = and might well be the only Thangorodrim story that will make readers laugh.=
http://www.silmaril lionwritersgui= ld .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?sid=3D107&index=3D1

"Flawed= " by Feta. "Flawed" is actually an alternate-universe where Morgoth release= s Maedhros, but reading it, I am struck with how many subjects it touches u= pon that are pertinent to Thangorodrim stories of the more canonical variet= y. Courage, hope, the power of love--these are all themes that authors freq= uently take from this event, and Feta conveys them eloquently here as well = in considering how the return of Maedhros and the love between him and Fing= on brought about the restoration of the Noldor.
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewst= ory. php?sid=3D330&index=3D1

"Vodka" by ford_of_bruinen. While T= olkien's canon focuses on Maedhros and Fingon in the rescue, most writers c= an't resist contemplating Maglor. As his brother's regent during his captiv= ity, Maglor would have borne primary responsibility- -and guilt--for the ch= oice not to attempt a rescue. "Vodka" considers this premise and how Maglor= copes by turning to dark muses that will sing to him one of the greatest w= orks of the Noldor.
http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?sid=3D238

"S= hadow" by Kenaz. This drabble considers the effect that losing a limb might= have had on one who was named for his beauty and how eventual acceptance o= f his marring might come from love.
htt= p://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?sid= =3D23

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwri tersguild= . org


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MSN Mobile: Die neuesten Infos aus der= Welt der Stars und Sternchen zum Mitnehmen! --_ee35a1fb-426f-402f-a305-b6c09ac1855d_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2312 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7935 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2008 13:59:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2008 13:59:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.241) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2008 13:59:31 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so1724613rvf.48 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 05:59:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.177.7 with SMTP id z7mr941021wfe.132.1226757571172; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 05:59:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 05:59:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 08:59:31 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_16232_2513863.1226757571171" References: <8CB1262FDE09771-1640-E8D@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <8CB126422D8DE3F-1640-EFE@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> <460084.28287.qm@web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmfic Recs on the Never Enough Heroes Blog X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=bbG8dzNLeNCqGbOQfG4-NhN7NtYekSnnN_cYAwOepmD2g_dEbHwy X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_16232_2513863.1226757571171-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2313 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72888 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2008 09:41:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2008 09:41:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.234) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2008 09:41:49 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id g37so1285755rvb.25 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:41:49 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.177.5 with SMTP id z5mr696654wfe.240.1227346909178; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:41:49 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:41:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:41:49 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10084_16727983.1227346909160" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Problem with Review System on Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=EljnfChrp_8PT1asK5Y1UqxiqjLWb6bb0yAOB16wAY4v-0HBsv6X X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_10084_16727983.1227346909160-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2314 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51941 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2008 19:20:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2008 19:20:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n35a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.129) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2008 19:20:59 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n35.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2008 19:20:59 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2008 19:20:59 -0000 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:20:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Problem with Review System on Archive--FIXED! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-Nc93tlqN4n8dWsR-gf59RxEXDwSJT7xuXjylgAsGyXqtG-gt8NQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, The problem with reviews on the archive has been fixed. Thanks to= Rhapsody for fixing it! :) Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2315 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5823 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2008 19:25:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2008 19:25:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2008 19:25:29 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.cab.3ca793b7 (42809) for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:25:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:25:23 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1227381923" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Problem with Review System on Archive--FIX... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=7t4Y_MIclyGHEV7S4GlgCcCv7QAhgH0PPxJ2lWRV30Uw00Qy40Lz X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1227381923 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yea! Thanks, Rhapsody. You are definitely on my list of beloved and much appreciated overachievers who make my life better today. Dawn, I almost died when I received an email about this last night (or, more accurately, this morning) after 4 a.m. Was that another problem with my AOL delivery system, or were you really up and worrying about your dependants at that hour? You guys are great. **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) -------------------------------1227381923 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Yea! Thanks, Rhap= sody. You are definitely on my list of beloved and much appreciated overac= hievers who make my life better today.
 
Dawn, I= almost died when I received an email about this last night (or, more accu= rately, this morning) after 4 a.m. Was that another problem with my A= OL delivery system, or were you really up and worrying about your dependant= s at that hour?
 
You guys are great.



=
One site has it all. Your email accou= nts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!
-------------------------------1227381923-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2316 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29719 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2008 19:36:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2008 19:36:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.247) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2008 19:36:16 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so1435700rvf.56 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:36:15 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.11.2 with SMTP id 2mr887836wfk.9.1227382575880; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:36:15 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:36:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:36:15 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13984_18901282.1227382575882" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Problem with Review System on Archive--FIX... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=aTzTZGCBmqtl1uAa2zvPxKgS7o7eDamQ5Z1TFHRNX5VXMK-o5usL X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_13984_18901282.1227382575882-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2317 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6876 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2008 19:41:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2008 19:41:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2008 19:41:17 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c75.41aad145 (42809) for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:41:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:41:13 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1227382873" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Problem with Review System on Archive--FIX... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=_xBLYCnjILwt0pkS2WGuB4EIugZ2tpWHrhDr1My1ZeaB2gurWH74 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1227382873 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just an annoying (though timely!) case of insomnia. I love you all but don't routinely wake up at 4 am to check the site, no. ;) I woke up for no apparent reason at about the same time and was sitting here cursing my own bad habits when the email came. I thought: OMG! She is much too young for this. I blame on my age, although if I were to carefully think about it, I would have to admit it is a lifelong problem. **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) -------------------------------1227382873 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Just an annoying (though timely!) case of i= nsomnia. I love you all but don't routinely wake up at 4 am to check the= site, no. ;)
I woke up for no = apparent reason at about the same time and was sitting here cursing my own= bad habits when the email came. I thought: OMG! She is much too young for= this. I blame on my age, although if I were to carefully think about it, = I would have to admit it is a lifelong problem.



One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social = networks, and the things you love. Try the new = AOL.com today!
-------------------------------1227382873-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2318 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35769 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2008 01:48:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2008 01:48:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f11.google.com) (209.85.217.11) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2008 01:48:21 -0000 X-Received: by gxk4 with SMTP id 4so119366gxk.17 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:48:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.221.11 with SMTP id t11mr1912511wfg.238.1227577700474; Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:48:20 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:48:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:48:20 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_39420_9310985.1227577700464" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: SSP: "Take Pity upon Him: Did Him Maedhros Really Threaten to Kill Elrond and Elros at the Third Kinslaying?" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Z0mskB5Fq_oeNQZXJ2kVs6oPKHhmQt6SIJaeW1pCwcZGQUR6mIkq X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_39420_9310985.1227577700464-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2319 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35678 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2008 10:48:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2008 10:48:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s6.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.144) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2008 10:48:51 -0000 X-Received: from COL103-W45 ([65.55.34.136]) by col0-omc3-s6.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 25 Nov 2008 02:48:51 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_107a97e4-4b92-40c2-bc4c-97722372e7d2_" To: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:48:51 +0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2008 10:48:51.0031 (UTC) FILETIME=[67126670:01C94EEB] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Unsung Heroine Subject: For anyone interested in it: Essay on Celtic influences on Tolkien's mythology X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=fY0ar93uAUHJbHXrACwd0Q-HHa69qF5eHyQoxIMvQBfj2d6C X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende --_107a97e4-4b92-40c2-bc4c-97722372e7d2_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all! I've recently posted this link on my LJ but thought I'd post it= here too so that more people will be able to see it. It's a an article on = the influences of Celtic mythology in Tolkien's Silm. Some of it's aspects = aren't that new, but it makes an interesting read nonetheless and sums ever= ything up pretty nicely. :) So for anyone interested in it, here's the li= nk: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2386/is_2_117/ai_n16676591/pg_= 1 See you soon, - UH :) _______________________________________________= __________________ Neu: Office Live Workspace, der kostenlose Online-Arbeit= sbereich f=FCr Office. Ideal auch f=FCr Teams. Jetzt ausprobieren! http://w= orkspace.officelive.com/?lc=3D1031&cloc=3Dde-DE --_107a97e4-4b92-40c2-bc4c-97722372e7d2_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all!
 
I've recently posted this link on my L= J but thought I'd post it here too so that more people will be able to see = it. It's a an article on the influences of Celtic mythology in Tolkien's Si= lm. Some of it's aspects aren't that new, but it makes an interesting read = nonetheless and sums everything up pretty nicely. :)
 
So for = anyone interested in it, here's the link:
 
http://fin= darticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2386/is_2_117/ai_n16676591/pg_1
 =
See you soon,
 
- UH :)

Messenger Online T= reff: Spontan chatten, =FCber Hobbies reden, sofort Spass haben? Jetzt klicke= n! --_107a97e4-4b92-40c2-bc4c-97722372e7d2_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2320 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25758 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2008 14:32:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2008 14:32:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2008 14:32:41 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c3c.4680c56a (39332) for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:32:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:32:29 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1227623549" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] For anyone interested in it: Essay on Celtic i... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=u-caj4Xf4pcIzt0IGktkp2YrPVY2tZmP5OdREOiBTGYlXGCgzwl8 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1227623549 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks so much! This is an entertaining and informative article and one that I had never seen. **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) -------------------------------1227623549 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Thanks so much! T= his is an entertaining and informative article and one that I had never se= en.



One site has it all. You= r email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the= new AOL.com today!
-------------------------------1227623549-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2321 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11829 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2008 15:58:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2008 15:58:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.168) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2008 15:58:43 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 26so15626wfd.19 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:58:43 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.125.9 with SMTP id x9mr2197994wfc.38.1227628722904; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:58:42 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.174.17 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:58:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:58:42 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7223_17772253.1227628722904" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] For anyone interested in it: Essay on Celtic influences on Tolkien's mythology X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MFMMxSzvc_kJOWT60dUkGlyMMIjDO25M3jLuIfg4w0nNXloO1UL4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_7223_17772253.1227628722904-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2322 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98664 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2008 11:26:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2008 11:26:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s5.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.143) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2008 11:26:32 -0000 X-Received: from COL103-W69 ([65.55.34.136]) by col0-omc3-s5.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 03:26:32 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_df82b8e2-8e49-42d3-9aa0-805f70f979ed_" To: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:26:32 +0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2008 11:26:32.0188 (UTC) FILETIME=[D53D53C0:01C94FB9] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Unsung Heroine Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] For anyone interested in it: Essay on Celtic influences on Tolkien's mythology X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=rmEy49IcTcarRUBkk8G7sPMdnTbLF_Wqc_Ym3v3EkEAPn484 X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende --_df82b8e2-8e49-42d3-9aa0-805f70f979ed_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You're very welcome. :) When I think of it, for your other project I might= have something too... *runs away to google* *comes back with URL* The= re you are: http://www.ageofthering.com/forum/index.php?topic=3D38129.0;wap= 2 It's called "True Elves of Europe" and the author compares Tolkien's El= ves to the "real" elves of European folklore (Caranthir's bitchy now... how= dare I say he's not real etc. etc. ;-P) by compiling a list of seven main = traits and trying to apply those to the Elves of European mythology. I don'= t know if it will be of much help to you but I guess it might give you a fi= rst overview, plus it mentions many, many sources. To: SilmarillionWrite= rsGuild@yahoogroups.comFrom: DawnFelagund@gmail.comDate: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 1= 0:58:42 -0500Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] For anyone interested = in it: Essay on Celtic influences on Tolkien's mythology Wow, UH, this = is brilliant! I will have to bookmark it into Delicious right away and read= it ... next week, when I have a whole week off from classes. :) One of m= y eventual projects for my other geeky pursuit--medieval re-enactment--is t= o research the history of Elves in mythology. This looks like it might be a= good source for that, and just downright interesting besides! Thank you,= Dawn -- ~oOo~Dawn Felagundwww.silmarillionwritersguild.org ____= _____________________________________________________________ Messenger to = go! Hol' Dir Messenger aufs Handy! http://windowslivemobile.msn.com/Browser= ServiceMessenger.aspx?lang=3DDE-DE --_df82b8e2-8e49-42d3-9aa0-805f70f979ed_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You're very welcome. :) When I think of it, for your other pro= ject I might have something too...
 
*runs away to google* *comes back with URL*
 
There you are: http://www.ageofthe= ring.com/forum/index.php?topic=3D38129.0;wap2
 
It's calle= d "True Elves of Europe" and the author compares Tolkien's Elves to the "re= al" elves of European folklore (Caranthir's bitchy now... how dare I say he= 's not real etc. etc. ;-P) by compiling a list of seven main traits and try= ing to apply those to the Elves of European mythology. I don't know if it w= ill be of much help to you but I guess it might give you a first overview, = plus it mentions many, many sources.


To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
From: DawnFelagund@gmail= .com
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:58:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [Silmarillion= WritersGuild] For anyone interested in it: Essay on Celtic influences on To= lkien's mythology


www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



Zeigen Sie es Ihren Freunden! Erstellen Sie = kostenlos Fotoalben und Diashows in Ihrem Space! --_df82b8e2-8e49-42d3-9aa0-805f70f979ed_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2323 Return-Path: X-Sender: atanwende@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75576 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2008 11:29:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2008 11:29:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s12.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.150) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2008 11:29:54 -0000 X-Received: from COL103-W22 ([65.55.34.137]) by col0-omc3-s12.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 26 Nov 2008 03:29:54 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: atanwende@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_abb467eb-a18c-435b-a25a-7ce285bd699b_" To: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:29:55 +0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2008 11:29:54.0343 (UTC) FILETIME=[4DBBBB70:01C94FBA] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Unsung Heroine Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] For anyone interested in it: Essay on Celtic i... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253493498; y=Q00z6504DlnUkT96BfrGVQBRUixejnW0kWq5D6rCG1RsZ6DE X-Yahoo-Profile: atanwende --_abb467eb-a18c-435b-a25a-7ce285bd699b_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm glad you liked it. :) I always love reading about Tolkien's various in= fluences and it was cool to find an essay that deals specifically with the = aspects I find most interesting. :D To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogrou= ps.comFrom: heartofoshun@aol.comDate: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:32:29 -0500Subjec= t: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] For anyone interested in it: Essay on Cel= tic i... Thanks so much! This is an entertaining and informative articl= e and one that I had never seen. One site has it all. Your email account= s, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today= ! _________________________________________________________________ = Hotmail to go! Hol' Dir Hotmail aufs Handy! http://windowslivemobile.msn.co= m/BrowserServiceHotmail.aspx?lang=3Dde-de --_abb467eb-a18c-435b-a25a-7ce285bd699b_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm glad you liked it. :) I always love reading about Tolkien'= s various influences and it was cool to find an essay that deals specifical= ly with the aspects I find most interesting. :D

To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
From: heartofoshun@aol.= com
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:32:29 -0500
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionW= ritersGuild] For anyone interested in it: Essay on Celtic i...

Thanks so = much! This is an entertaining and informative article and one that I had ne= ver seen.





MSN= Mobile: Die = neuesten Infos aus der Welt der Stars und Sternchen zum Mitnehmen! --_abb467eb-a18c-435b-a25a-7ce285bd699b_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2324 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 641 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2008 13:58:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2008 13:58:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.30) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2008 13:58:56 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so222052yxj.11 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:58:55 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.153.8 with SMTP id a8mr2578479wfe.328.1227707934914; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:58:54 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.43.15 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:58:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:58:54 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_17160_28562736.1227707934911" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] For anyone interested in it: Essay on Celtic influences on Tolkien's mythology X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mQAMop6QJPTHnWcVu8X9yfRwAOiFj3lSePRwF4icBEb3Ig1jsIHi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_17160_28562736.1227707934911-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2325 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13190 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2008 14:42:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2008 14:42:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.246) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Nov 2008 14:42:33 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so2073910rvf.10 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:42:33 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.135.16 with SMTP id i16mr4101420wfd.272.1228056153086; Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:42:33 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.43.15 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:42:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:42:33 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_57072_31981759.1228056153090" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: MEFAs End Today! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=3l7uzODwUPBxajz0EdlwsYpO-KREI0smCg1cIaL68I2lpP31FwFb X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_57072_31981759.1228056153090-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2326 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68456 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2008 01:53:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2008 01:53:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.153) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2008 01:53:29 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 3so1543802yxi.72 for ; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:53:28 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.230.7 with SMTP id c7mr4727432wfh.45.1228182808400; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:53:28 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.43.15 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:53:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:53:28 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_77306_6894586.1228182808394" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: December 2008 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=n4ZBIwqLFDvW-gjOTpgojs4_rlrBmIhFvivG5No-Csh3N7_7xri- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_77306_6894586.1228182808394-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2327 Return-Path: X-Sender: juno_magic@magic.ms X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40795 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2008 13:57:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2008 13:57:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.112) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2008 13:57:50 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2008 13:57:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2008 13:57:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:57:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "JunoMagic" Subject: There and Back Again Advent Calendar Fic Prompts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=gM2sE-5UXQDEIAPGrliI3psI_i2nggFQJe3lPu-C63KLXLcgRg X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic Hi all, I just wanted to invite you to join the "There and Back Again" fic= prompts Advent calendar. You can find it here: http://community.livejour= nal.com/there_n_back/ Cheers, JunoMagic *** "There and Back Again (and h= ow to get there in the first place)" - an online writers' workshop for fanf= ic & o-fic in LJ style: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dther= e_n_back From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2328 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96269 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2008 19:54:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2008 19:54:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f13.google.com) (209.85.217.13) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2008 19:54:22 -0000 X-Received: by gxk6 with SMTP id 6so4195896gxk.22 for ; Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:54:22 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.252.13 with SMTP id z13mr6037678wfh.252.1228420191613; Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:49:51 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.43.15 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:49:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 14:49:51 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9061_16572250.1228420191610" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: MEFA 2008 Results Are In! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=PA8iyqmfjtsjU5S3Xt-sY02WAFKXNbmRrKHKPStLWjsa6r6uujXO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_9061_16572250.1228420191610-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2329 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11812 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2008 03:03:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2008 03:03:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.174) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2008 03:03:51 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so4370149wfc.20 for ; Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:03:51 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.226.10 with SMTP id y10mr6209270wfg.3.1228446231479; Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:03:51 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.43.15 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 19:03:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 22:03:51 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13429_21230005.1228446231460" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: We Need Newsletter Writers! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=McGIfsjyDbvdCBd-_iWDGCofeQkmbp-U79lLakdpdUcSkCxUk9FI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_13429_21230005.1228446231460-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2330 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49556 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2008 03:30:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2008 03:30:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2008 03:30:30 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.ca1.481faae9 (41812) for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2008 22:30:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 22:30:27 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1228447827" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] We Need Newsletter Writers! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=mB1PCQ4GSFzcGEjgdqCAvXD7UqFJcEnF3gHLdMrKiv-MSzRJmGCE X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1228447827 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm blushing that you cited my bios as positive example. Just as a prod or recommendation: it's a lot of fun what I am doing and actually has a positive effect on my writing, has added dimension to those same characters when I use them in my fiction. Dawn also gives me enough flexibility to research and write on someone that I actually want to use in the immediate future. I think that could be true of some of the other topics she is suggesting as well. Also, if you are among our members who are nervous about writing fiction, this could be another way to talk about the canon that interests you. Oshun **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) -------------------------------1228447827 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I'm blushing that= you cited my bios as positive example.
 <= /DIV>
Just as a prod or recommendation: it's a lot of fun what I am do= ing and actually has a positive effect on my writing, has added dimension = to those same characters when I use them in my fiction. Dawn also gives me= enough flexibility to research and write on someone that I actually want = to use in the immediate future. I think that could be true of some of the = other topics she is suggesting as well.
 
Also,= if you are among our members who are nervous about writing fiction, this = could be another way to talk about the canon that interests you.
 
Oshun



Make your = life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. = Try it now.
-------------------------------1228447827-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2331 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37039 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2008 16:32:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2008 16:32:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.98) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2008 16:32:50 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 94911 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Dec 2008 16:32:49 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: owjQXCwVM1nn47kcCwIDc2G137UQuUZ4aMWCziowZbqWVkzc1vKzxVg1o9h9kW38b6j9iIn9TBnW5KuY9tc59eCItWV1APYRhmQqJiioKcGTtHHbO4VPtRTer7iabWTWJuqu0NB7Vf1FMdrGRG4W.zfje.TXJ0wUWRteg3WSYUABQoU- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 08:32:49 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 08:32:49 -0800 (PST) To: SoA , SilmarillionWritersGuild , leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, aragorn-legolas@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com, ElvenLords@yahoogroups.com, Julie_Fianna_Archive@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, Silmfics@yahoogroups.com, Waters_of_Cuivienen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1691519131-1228753969=:93767" Message-ID: <518592.93767.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Holiday Thoughts - ALEC's December Theme X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=Q_KDdMpNlAR9Az4Ls5zcXh12tyAWbnZvVqls3L_gyb4sCiE7SA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1691519131-1228753969=:93767 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =95 From a_l_e_c, aka "A Long Expected Contest": New Contest! Accepts Het,= Gen, and Slash (though they will not compete against each other) and up to= NC-17 rating. A new theme prompt given every month. Voting at month's end = determines winners (first, second, and third places in each of the categori= es: het, gen, slash). Stories' author are confidential until after awards a= re given. Check out our Yahoo Group as well. =A0 ..::Holiday Thoughts::.. = December's Theme In honor of the holidays in December, I thought it would = be fitting to write about Holiday Thoughts. It does not have to be based on= documented events in the book and the words in the theme do not have to be= included in the fiction. Each writer has until December 31st=A011:59PM PST= to turn in the story. Email the story to alikatskorner@rockfan.com.=A0=A0 = =A0 We also need voters for November's entries for the topic A Little Nigh= t Music. Now that MEFAs are over - its a good time to read and vote for the= se excellent stories! Read the stories, make comments if you wish (all are = being screened) but send your actual votes to alec_votecoordinator@yahoo.co= m Rules for voting is on the page with the links to the stories for Novembe= r. =A0 =A0 To find ALEC - look here! http://community.livejournal.com/a_l_e= _c/ and here - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/ Come= join us! Good luck and happy writing! =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ~~**~= ~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of = dark? --0-1691519131-1228753969=:93767 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=95 From 3D[info]a_l_e_c, aka "A Long Expected Contest":
<= BR>New Contest!
Accepts Het, Gen, and Slash (though they will not= compete against each other) and up to NC-17 rating. A new theme prompt giv= en every month. Voting at month's end determines winners (first, second, an= d third places in each of the categories: het, gen, slash). Stories' author= are confidential until after awards are given. Check out our Yahoo Group as well.
 
..::Holiday Thoughts::.. December's Theme

In honor = of the holidays in December, I thought it would be fitting to write about <= STRONG>Holiday Thoughts. It does not have to be based on documente= d events in the book and the words in the theme do not have to be included = in the fiction. Each writer has until December 31st 11:59PM PS= T to turn in the story. Email the story to alikatskorner@rockfan.= com.  
 
We= also need voters for November's entries for the topic A Little Nig= ht Music. Now that MEFAs are over - its a good time to read= and vote for these excellent stories! Read the stories, make comments if y= ou wish (all are being screened) but send your actual votes to alec_v= otecoordinator@yahoo.com Rules for voting is on the page with the links= to the stories for November.
 
 
To find ALEC - look here! http://community.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/ and h= ere - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/

Come jo= in us! Good luck and happy writing!
 <= BR>
 
 
=

 
 
~~**~~
A day without sun= shine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

--0-1691519131-1228753969=:93767-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2332 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18963 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2008 22:31:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2008 22:31:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.169) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2008 22:31:54 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2725828wff.30 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:31:54 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.143.35.4 with SMTP id n4mr2472638wfj.177.1229293913955; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:31:53 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.222.8 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:31:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:31:53 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_107699_6989028.1229293913977" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=S-zX73dUxcMC8zwVADCZeWr3wFBsAQ_691uJ5rVjGfXqR-LeDMRV X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_107699_6989028.1229293913977-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2333 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54728 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2008 22:36:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2008 22:36:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m19.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.11) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2008 22:36:32 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.cbb.2e8a908a (48552) for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:36:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:37:02 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1229294222" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=qiYaBSv0WardSZT1waxJejA6bfh7MruQzTNQTmBT2OvPC9dw21Ic X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1229294222 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok. I really don't believe in mass democracy in such instances, but I am loath to add my two centers worth, but just one question. Wouldn't it be possible to simply limit the size instead of banning them? Anyway, whatever you decide as owner is absolutely fine with me. I will be sad though. Because they are basically of no use inside of a story IMO. The story stands on its own, banners one would hope are a drawn to get someone to open a story. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) -------------------------------1229294222 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Ok. I really don'= t believe in mass democracy in such instances, but I am loath to add my tw= o centers worth, but just one question. Wouldn't it be possible to simply = limit the size instead of banning them? Anyway, whatever you decide as own= er is absolutely fine with me. I will be sad though. Because they are basi= cally of no use inside of a story IMO. The story stands on its own, banner= s one would hope are a drawn to get someone to open a story.
<= BR>

Make your life easier with all your friends, ema= il, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now= .
-------------------------------1229294222-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2334 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43328 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2008 23:00:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2008 23:00:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.168) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2008 23:00:42 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so2129007wfg.23 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:00:42 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.178.13 with SMTP id a13mr2487587wff.93.1229295642708; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:00:42 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.222.8 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:00:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:00:42 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_108195_10512177.1229295642699" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=eDLYjS96n37IRKkB0A_HPRWNv5Iuqo2EkmIuIoGn7KBoz4GosCu8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_108195_10512177.1229295642699-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2335 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8703 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2008 23:10:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2008 23:10:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2008 23:10:40 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.d03.4afaca04 (48552) for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:10:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:11:06 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1229296266" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=F3U6SyyChRp_SuEIu3OyZzMvM0XfynKYfVhPvDy21YshDg-KWA-c X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1229296266 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm open to suggestions, of course, but my decision will have to be motivated by making the site function well for all authors and visitors, not just those who want to display banners. Of course, you should take the functioning of the site into consideration above everything else and why you should make that decision and the rest of us abide by it. I certainly could not contribute anything useful to a discussion of the technical side either. It's interesting to know why it might be a problem, however. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) -------------------------------1229296266 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
I'm open to suggestions, of course, but my = decision will have to be motivated by making the site function well for = all authors and visitors, not just those who want to display bann= ers.
Of course, you should t= ake the functioning of the site into consideration above everything e= lse and why you should make that decision and the rest of us abide by it. = I certainly could not contribute anything useful to a discussion of the te= chnical side either. It's interesting to know why it might be a problem, h= owever.



Make your life easier with = all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
-------------------------------1229296266-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2336 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74042 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2008 23:16:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2008 23:16:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.227) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2008 23:16:04 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id k40so3424603rvb.19 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:16:04 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.143.30.10 with SMTP id h10mr2485613wfj.179.1229296564130; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:16:04 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.222.8 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:16:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:16:04 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_108265_28812913.1229296564127" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=nTAhkNQSvdJukIGcbAVXfocZ_Mg4ZGDfOjxMdXkBJ1sPSy8uLKOi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_108265_28812913.1229296564127-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2337 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25607 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2008 23:26:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2008 23:26:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2008 23:26:29 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.bc3.3d11384d (48552) for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:26:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:26:58 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1229297218" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=usB_0DOe5HRwdJ0pfwpnuCxtmxbZ0P2h8Vt3ve0XZPoA5x_FiG8q X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1229297218 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am now curious as to why the banners are offered at all again. The two principle public sites where I post apparently don't want them and, yet, there is a huge expenditure of time and energy promoting and preparing them, which seems to grow in intensity every year. I know that is not your worry. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) -------------------------------1229297218 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I am now cur= ious as to why the banners are offered at all again. The two principle pub= lic sites where I post apparently don't want them and, yet, there is a hug= e expenditure of time and energy promoting and preparing them, which seems= to grow in intensity every year. I know that is not your worry.
 
 



Make you= r life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place= . Try it now.
-------------------------------1229297218-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2338 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43623 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2008 23:50:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2008 23:50:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s1.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.139) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2008 23:50:26 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W24 ([65.55.34.136]) by col0-omc3-s1.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:50:26 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_66e9608a-95be-4e7c-9b27-52b8ba408764_" To: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:50:26 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2008 23:50:26.0471 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCC7EB70:01C95E46] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=lDJJKJV6w9S_qLHndx5SEYarNvU03rj3tFGyRo8OUdXVY50tyBSLOQ X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_66e9608a-95be-4e7c-9b27-52b8ba408764_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I use banners on my livejournal to link to the story. I will be happy t= o move the banners from the summary to the story notes, where I had put the= m originally, anyway. I didn't realize there was a potential problem with = them, and totally unaware that they weren't supposed to be where I was putt= ing them! So, thanks for the heads-up, Dawn. MithLuin -* -- |> |_ /|\ |= \| -- *- ** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* ** * * God saw that the light was good, an= d God separated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4Eru cenn=EB sa i c= =E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello. To: Silmar= illionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.comFrom: heartofoshun@aol.comDate: Sun, 14 D= ec 2008 18:26:58 -0500Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on = the SWG Archive I am now curious as to why the banners are offered at all a= gain. The two principle public sites where I post apparently don't want the= m and, yet, there is a huge expenditure of time and energy promoting and pr= eparing them, which seems to grow in intensity every year. I know that is n= ot your worry. _____________________________________________________= ____________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http:= //windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122= 008 --_66e9608a-95be-4e7c-9b27-52b8ba408764_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
I use banners on my livejournal to link to the= story.  I will be happy to move the banners from the summary to the s= tory notes, where I had put them originally, anyway.  I didn't realize= there was a potential problem with them, and totally unaware that they wer= en't supposed to be where I was putting them!
 
So, thanks for= the heads-up, Dawn. 

MithLuin

-* -- |> |_ /|\ |\|= -- *-
** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* **
* *

God saw that the l= ight was good, and God separated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1= :4

Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar E= ru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello.








To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup= s.com
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:26:58 -050= 0
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive

I am now curious as to why the banners are offered at all again= . The two principle public sites where I post apparently don't want them an= d, yet, there is a huge expenditure of time and energy promoting and prepar= ing them, which seems to grow in intensity every year. I know that is not y= our worry.
 
 




Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your Hotmail=AE account. --_66e9608a-95be-4e7c-9b27-52b8ba408764_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2339 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66742 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2008 23:51:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2008 23:51:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.172) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2008 23:51:48 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2124377wfc.11 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.139.14 with SMTP id m14mr2501314wfd.100.1229298708457; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.222.8 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:51:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:51:48 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_108468_3926952.1229298708453" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=fQErkGXWmf7_hj2NGyFhV6z0mJWsEr3bX_9-22Var6llbpKz095n X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_108468_3926952.1229298708453-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2340 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1474 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2008 23:54:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2008 23:54:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.172) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2008 23:54:14 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2328371wfc.18 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:54:14 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.142.16 with SMTP id p16mr2487969wfd.321.1229298854702; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:54:14 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.222.8 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:54:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:54:14 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_108522_10334699.1229298854697" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=FFIzkknD-rh0kMWMpAxBhm63T4h3J61n70BLMjT5Z8ZX2tGXke50 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_108522_10334699.1229298854697-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2341 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5645 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2008 00:00:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2008 00:00:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2008 00:00:10 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.bd3.3582038d (48552) for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:00:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:00:37 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1229299237" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=O9u2tPzRQnUyAB6MJdq9_Gr6Z8KRmnx4fF9bRJN_WSMBTp5-4YXU X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1229299237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/14/2008 6:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFe lagund@gmail.com writes: Or if you like to put your banners up on a personal site Nevermind me. I am laughing at myself really hard right now. I am just really bad at this stuff I guess. I have never had a desire to set up a personal site, because I had no idea how anyone would know it exists. Would a website that no one clicked on really exist? My friends read my LJ with or without banners. So that doesn't matter much. I am not good a self-promotion. That's why I liked the MEFA banner idea. Sort of way to tell potential readers: "Hey, I wrote some stories that some other people thought were pretty good." I will happily remove them when you say so, but, meanwhile, it took me a while to figure out how to do it, so I will wait until you insist. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) -------------------------------1229299237 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 12/14/2008 6:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.co= m writes:
Or if you like to put your ba= nners up on a personal site
Neve= rmind me. I am laughing at myself really hard right now. I am just really = bad at this stuff I guess. I have never had a desire to set up a personal = site, because I had no idea how anyone would know it exists. Would a websit= e that no one clicked on really exist? My friends read my LJ with or witho= ut banners. So that doesn't matter much. I am not good a self-promotion. T= hat's why I liked the MEFA banner idea. Sort of way to tell potential read= ers: "Hey, I wrote some stories that some other people thought were pretty= good."  
 
I will happily remove them whe= n you say so, but, meanwhile, it took me a while to figure out how to do i= t, so I will wait until you insist.



Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites i= n one place. Try it now.
-------------------------------1229299237-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2342 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79001 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2008 00:01:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2008 00:01:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2008 00:01:38 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c75.43c1cf93 (48552) for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:01:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:02:09 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1229299329" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=sxAmVtclmJLK7obQY2fzzTfyaapmLtdRfTA_EQel98x9_9AVIloK X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1229299329 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey go for it! And when you make me take mine down, I'll remind you! ROFLMAO (I suppose it would be really wrong of the group owner to break her own rule and put her banners in her story summaries, wouldn't it? :D) **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) -------------------------------1229299329 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Hey go for = it! And when you make me take mine down, I'll remind you! ROFLMAO
(I suppose it would be really wrong of the grou= p owner to break her own rule and put her banners in her story summaries= , wouldn't it? :D)
 


Make your life easier with all your = friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try= it now.
-------------------------------1229299329-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2343 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14535 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2008 00:23:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2008 00:23:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.190) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2008 00:23:48 -0000 X-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id g16so375114nfd.16 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:23:47 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.67.106.13 with SMTP id i13mr1506165ugm.7.1229300627635; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:23:47 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.67.31.15 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:23:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:23:47 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=ahnYXzgpdg02MxeZg5VtUxloo_Pa0MeQxIq2OVwPdkMU-EwNfd2gTg X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi guys, I'll speak for the MEFAs, but informally (if that's even possible!) - I'm actually not that involved in the banner end of the MEFAs and so these thoughts aren't as well thought-out as they would be if we were talking about another area of the awards that I *have* been more involved with and devoted more careful thought to. Just keep that caveat in mind. I think of banners as the electronic equivalent of a bowling trophy or a marathon shirt. At least in my experience, bowling trophies are really only of interest to the person who won it :-) - if you have guests into your house they probably would barely notice your trophy, but it gives *you* something to look back at and remember that you did well. It gives you an object you can put out there, to sort of give solid form to an experience. It's fun, it helps to reminisce (which is also fun), and it is hopefully a pretty thing to have on the mantle. But unless you're a professional bowler, the goal of a bowling trophy really isn't to impress on everyone else your bowling skills. Banners on the first page of your story (rather than your summary) are kind of like that. They're a fun thing for you to look back on, and to display somewhere - not for the purpose of recruiting readers, but to sort of memorialize an experience you've had. We don't have the money to hand out trophies unfortunately ;-) but little graphics that you can display online are the closest equivalent we could think of. I also mention marathon shirts - my brother runs marathons and he has a closet full of grubby t-shirts going back to the 1998 junior division of the local run. I roll my eyes at him over this, but for him, they are a history of things he's done. They're also a walking advertisement - so that other people who run marathons recognize him as "one of them" when he wears the shirt. But it's a connection on a personal level rather than with a certain marathon. What's significant isn't that he completed in 2003 but that he completed, period. I see banners on a profile page (like the mash-up Dawn mentions) as providing a similar history. It's nice to be able to glance through your banners and remember your past experiences. And it's nice to be able to declare your affiliation to people looking into you (not specific stories, but you as a person). Some people may not see the attraction, and for them I'd say that MEFA banners probably aren't for them. No author is *required* to request banners, and if they really don't have a use for them, that really is okay. But for people who do like banners - not to attract readers so much, I agree adding a line of text to a summary is more affective and less problematic for that, but as a kind of trophy to put on their virtual mantle or as a history of their involvement in a certain program - for those people, I like to make them available. FWIW, Marta On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 6:26 PM, wrote: >> I am now curious as to why the banners are offered at all again. > > I can't speak for the MEFAs, but I know that when we do special events here, > we tend to offer a banner to people who participate, so I can explain my > thinking on that. > [snip] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2344 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4280 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2008 00:35:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2008 00:35:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2008 00:35:30 -0000 X-Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c4a.41f9bc62 (34892) for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:35:23 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.154]) by cia-da01.mx.aol.com (v121_r5.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA011-5c3d4945a647366; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:35:23 -0500 X-Received: from webmail-db10 (webmail-db10.webmail.aol.com [205.188.105.75]) by smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com (v121_r5.5) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDB033-5c3d4945a647366; Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:35:19 -0500 References: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:35:19 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 78.51.60.124 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CB2C64243E16CE_1348_249F_webmail-db10.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 40627-STANDARD X-Received: from 78.51.60.124 by webmail-db10.sysops.aol.com (205.188.105.75) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:35:19 -0500 Message-Id: <8CB2C642423DD06-1348-118C@webmail-db10.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=UPh3rWdDcT13dYaaRTUkaQxksj2rxYPQuvS4AYk0kQ1MutWMMg X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth ----------MB_8CB2C64243E16CE_1348_249F_webmail-db10.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi, First time de-lurking here, I think, so I hope this won't sound tota= lly demented - but I always liked HASA's approach (who, to my best knowledg= e don't allow banners either) of marking award-winning stories with a littl= e star graphic in front of the title. That graphic is hosted on the site's = servers, so not dependant on image hosting sites and unaffected by their po= ssible downtimes. I don't know much about bandwith, but can't image that a = graphic of perhaps 20x20px would use up much... maybe a similar compromise = could be found for SWG to give some distinction to those stories with an aw= ard to them? Perhaps it could simply be a slightly different color of the t= itle link, maybe have that in italics or somesuch? You could of course argu= e that that is not very different in terms of a member marking their story = as (for example) as a MEFA winner, but it is different insofar that this ma= rking would be an 'official' distinction similar to a MEFA banner, except t= hat it is offered by the site, and not simply put there by members. And so= mehow this came out totally wrong - of course I don't mean to suggest plagi= arizing HASA's idea, just wanted to throw in my two cents. Elleth -----= Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- Von: Dawn Felagund An: SWG Verschickt: So., 14= . Dez. 2008, 23:31 Thema: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG A= rchive Hi,20all, Over on the MEFA= list, there has been some discussion of award banners and where one can us= e banners on different sites. I wanted to clarify our policy on where image= s can be used on our archive and, hopefully, clear up some confusion on thi= s point that has resulted from an oversight of mine. There is an FAQ on i= mage use here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/about/faq/faq26.php= I will also summarize it here. In short, you are welcome to add images = to any space on the archive that you directly control and do not share with= other authors. In other words, if you want to add images to your stories o= r user profile, that is fine. However, we ask authors not to use images on = parts of the site where their content appears alongside the content of othe= r authors. The best example of this is story summaries: If you click on Mos= t Recent link on our archive, your recently added story appears in a list a= long with the recent stories of other authors. Our reasoning behind this = is that if there is something wrong with an image, then you can fix or remo= ve the image if it is in a space that you control. If you choose not to do = so and fewer people read your story because of it, then that is your loss a= lone. However, an image used in a "public space" has the potential to disru= pt the readership for multiple authors who cannot control the image, which = we did not think was fair. Nor do our moderators have time to "police" stor= ies to make sure that image links aren't b roken, aren't loading too slowly= , or aren't disrupting the page layout. Which brings me to MEFA banners. = :) Because of the above policy, we do not allow images in story summaries,= including banners. However, many authors currently have their MEFA banners= in their story summaries. I have been allowing this for several reasons.= First, I recognize that everyone is excited and proud of their awards. It= seems rather contrary to the purpose of our group to squelch this enthusia= sm. We haven't had any problems with the MEFA banners being used--they are = small and load quickly--so I'm fine with them remaining in summaries for no= w. Secondly, there is supposed to be a link to our image policy in the st= ory submission form. However, during a site update, this was not added, and= I overlooked it. Therefore, it is not fair to enforce a rule that was not = being made clear in the first place. So I'm fine with authors using banne= rs in story summaries for now. However, in a few months, I'll probably ask = authors to move their banners to the story notes, the story itself, or thei= r user profiles. In light of the MEFA discussion (which I am choosing not= to continue there since it is more relevant here) and in the interest of f= airness to authors who we've asked to remove images in the past, I wanted t= o clarify this. As always, please don't hesitate to contact me and my comod= s with questions and such at the usual places. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Fela= gund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org = ____________________________________________________________= ____________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k=C3=B6nnen Sie auch unte= rwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. ----------MB_8CB2C64243E16CE_1348_249F_webmail-db10.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Hi,

First time = de-lurking here, I think, so I hope this won't sound totally demented - but= I always liked HASA's approach (who, to my best knowledge don't allow bann= ers either) of marking award-winning stories with a little star graphic in = front of the title. That graphic is hosted on the site's servers, so not de= pendant on image hosting sites and unaffected by their possible downtimes. = I don't know much about bandwith, but can't image that a graphic of perhaps= 20x20px would use up much... maybe a similar compromise could be found for= SWG to give some distinction to those stories with an award to them? Perha= ps it could simply be a slightly different color of the title link, maybe h= ave that in italics or somesuch? You could of course argue that that is not= very different in terms of a member marking their story as (for example) a= s a MEFA winner, but it is different insofar that this marking would be an = 'official' distinction similar to a MEFA banner, except that it is offered = by the site, and not simply put there by members.

And somehow this= came out totally wrong - of course I don't mean to suggest plagiarizing HA= SA's idea, just wanted to throw in my two cents.

Elleth

=
-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Dawn Felagu= nd
An: SWG
Verschickt: So., 14. Dez. 2008, 23:31
Thema: [S= ilmarillionWritersGuild] Image Use on the SWG Archive
Hi, = all,

Over on the MEFA list, there has been some discussion of awar= d banners and where one can use banners on different sites. I wanted to cla= rify our policy on where images can be used on our archive and, hopefully, = clear up some confusion on this point that has resulted from an oversight o= f mine.

There is an FAQ on image use here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/about/faq/faq26.php

I will also summarize it here.

In short, you = are welcome to add images to any space on the archive that you directly con= trol and do not share with other authors. In other words, if you want to ad= d images to your stories or user profile, that is fine. However, we ask aut= hors not to use images on parts of the site where their content appe= ars alongside the content of other authors. The best example of this is sto= ry summaries: If you click on Most Recent link on our archive, your recentl= y added story appears in a list along with the recent stories of other auth= ors.

Our reasoning behind this is that if there is something wron= g with an ima ge, then you can fix or remove the image if it is in a space = that you control. If you choose not to do so and fewer people read your sto= ry because of it, then that is your loss alone. However, an image used in a= "public space" has the potential to disrupt the readership for multiple au= thors who cannot control the image, which we did not think was fair. Nor do= our moderators have time to "police" stories to make sure that image links= aren't broken, aren't loading too slowly, or aren't disrupting the page la= yout.

Which brings me to MEFA banners. :)

Because of the= above policy, we do not allow images in story summaries, including banners= . However, many authors currently have their MEFA banners in their story su= mmaries.

I have been allowing this for several reasons.

= First, I recognize that everyone is excited and proud of their awards. It s= eems rather contrary to the purpose of our group to squelch this enthusiasm= . We haven't had any problems with the MEFA banners being used--they are sm= all and load quickly--so I'm fine with them remaining in summaries for now.=

Secondly, there is supposed to be a link to our image policy in = the story submission form. However, during a site update, this was not adde= d, and I overlooked it. Therefore, it is not fair to enforce a rule that wa= s not being made clear in the first place.

So I'm fine with autho= rs using banners in story summaries for now. However, in a few months, I'll= probably ask authors=3D2 0to move their banners to the story notes, the st= ory itself, or their user profiles.

In light of the MEFA discussi= on (which I am choosing not to continue there since it is more relevant her= e) and in the interest of fairness to authors who we've asked to remove ima= ges in the past, I wanted to clarify this. As always, please don't hesitate= to contact me and my comods with questions and such at the usual places.
Dawn


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org
=
AOL eMail au= f Ihrem Handy!Ab sofort k=C3=B6nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email a= brufen. Registrier= en Sie sich jetzt kostenlos.
----------MB_8CB2C6C50A305CE_1348_28A4_webmail-db10.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2347 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77433 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2008 16:10:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2008 16:10:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2008 16:10:50 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id l24so1347926waf.12 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:10:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.148.2 with SMTP id v2mr5036118wad.26.1229357450016; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:10:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.131.6 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:10:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:10:49 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_112612_19254363.1229357450016" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Awards and the Archive (was "Image Use on the SWG Archive") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=vLh8O98qe5MWQHihGz7k0MgKdabM5OhvQihsixHc4nnFy6h5K5PM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_112612_19254363.1229357450016-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2348 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47466 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2008 17:35:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2008 17:35:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2008 17:35:36 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.d18.38544ec2 (39955) for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:35:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:35:28 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1229362528" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Awards and the Archive (was "Image Use on the ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=G2_g3z9x5OetCy-4enWcFggQ-LJml-iVQl_nDD2FqeMX3cCp0VIh X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1229362528 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am reluctant to make "official" any recognition of award recipients on the archive. Great points. I agree with them. Although, I am not crazy about the series idea either. But if everyone else put their MEFA-winning stories in one, I would do so also. I think it for me it not to announce the honor per se, and I do feel it is an honor to be reconized by ones peers, but wanting at least for a little while to draw attention to a particular story was why I valued the banners. I'll be happy with whatever you decide. The SWG is the closest thing I have to a home on the internet and I would be willing to do a lot more than take down a few banners from a particular location to keep it a harmonious one. I got whiney because I just spent way too much time recently looking at samples of banners, lettering them or having people make them for me, then struggling to get the right codes to have them visible, etc., etc. Way too much time! I don't think anyone could conceivably care what I think about this, but Marta's idea of saving them only as momentos doesn't work for me personally. I think my computer is going to crash any day now and I only back up writing and certain valued family photos on a regular basis. In my little world there is no more room for computer trivia that has no practical use. (If my printer hadn't broken I would print them.) I am the bag lady of computer users right now! I am positively psyched when I win an award, even if only a little more than six people are responsible for that win. And I am always looking for some way to promote the strories I work so hard writing. Those were my only concerns. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) -------------------------------1229362528 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
I am reluctant to make "official" any recog= nition of award recipients on the archive.
Great points. I agree with them. Although, I am not craz= y about the series idea either. But if everyone else put their MEFA-winnin= g stories in one, I would do so also.
 
I thin= k it for me it not to announce the honor per se, and I do feel it is an ho= nor to be reconized by ones peers, but wanting at least for a little while = to draw attention to a particular story was why I valued the banners. I'll= be happy with whatever you decide. The SWG is the closest thing I ha= ve to a home on the internet and I would be willing to do a lot more than = take down a few banners from a particular location to keep it a harmonious= one. I got whiney because I just spent way too much time recently looking= at samples of banners, lettering them or having people make them for me, = then struggling to get the right codes to have them visible, etc., et= c. Way too much time!
 
I don't think anyone cou= ld conceivably care what I think about this, but Marta's idea of saving th= em only as momentos doesn't work for me personally. I think my computer is= going to crash any day now and I only back up writing and certain valued = family photos on a regular basis. In my little world there is no more= room for computer trivia that has no practical use. (If my printer hadn't= broken I would print them.) I am the bag lady of computer users right now= !
 
I am positively psyched when I win an award= , even if only a little more than six people are responsible for that win.= And I am always looking for some way to promote the strories I work so ha= rd writing. Those were my only concerns.



Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sit= es in one place. Try it now.
= -------------------------------1229362528-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2349 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46461 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2008 18:11:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2008 18:11:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.187) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2008 18:11:54 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 45so2373627rnw.14 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:11:53 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.177.7 with SMTP id z7mr2883763wfe.281.1229364713456; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:11:53 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.222.8 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:11:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:11:53 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_116207_32775563.1229364713447" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Awards and the Archive (was "Image Use on the ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mw2HvfimIrYV8A4MXONolciuWnKD2siOaMkzyLrzaPOvDAOFkPt1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_116207_32775563.1229364713447-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2350 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69687 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2008 18:28:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2008 18:28:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2008 18:28:19 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c31.49643f1d (39955) for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:27:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:27:50 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1229365670" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Awards and the Archive (was "Image Use on the ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=23PjOCSmqzjMuLmTZKQHBPVoviLKQx9Tu5wqYmkbeiAMO3G71GUr X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1229365670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Dawn. My thought behind offering this is that, personally, I like when people put their banners in their profiles That is a thought. It is true that I do check others' profiles, but have put very little thought or effort into my own. New project to add to my list! (Remember more than a year ago when you asked me to write something about myself to use with my signature on the Character of the Month Bios, for example? I never did! LOL) **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) -------------------------------1229365670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Thanks, Daw= n.
My thought behind offering this is = that, personally, I like when people put their banners in their profiles=
That is a thought. It is true t= hat I do check others' profiles, but have put very little thought or effor= t into my own. New project to add to my list! (Remember more than a year a= go when you asked me to write something about myself to use with = ;my signature on the Character of the Month Bios, for example? I= never did! LOL)



Make your life eas= ier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
-------------------------------1229365670-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2351 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58938 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2008 18:45:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2008 18:45:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.102) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2008 18:45:29 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 50396 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Dec 2008 18:45:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: kW6sWdQVM1lLA6wQMRFYDQ1OJWKcvat2aJuIdivXzKVLTbx_NN9enmkEAD2e3yZS2WUspKX3eJ1.WY5QylAeOpjGZmfFkEMImYxHp77SbwFK_OVa57nVhB4EHxE72UETF3_FAVNQFg3nXVWbeRmvavYbeJhN7n9RZq9O8B5odDod2YrhEB46NUvTx5y_7WaR2Mxfrdh1tfG0tj71oFriyx35ZaerKT6bptMb X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:45:28 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:45:28 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1730966061-1229366728=:50359" Message-ID: <741846.50359.qm@web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Awards and the Archive (was "Image Use on the ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=_KcdR1MD5tNWvr0BjG3eSp-DX_Fciyjo0PcEdgmORkNc2kql7w X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1730966061-1229366728=:50359 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oshun - Even if you don't have it on your summary page - you can still have= it both in your story summary and on your profile. Not to mention on HASA(= in the story), OSA (in the summary), and LJ (anywhere you want it). I'm not= sure about FF.net but you might be able to post it there in your profile t= oo. =A0 I like it in the summary page=A0as well (with the smaller size of = 110 x 70) but if we're told to move it, then there are lots of other places= for me to post it other than just leaving it on my hard drive. Since I pos= t on various sites, I keep all of my award banners on my writing LJ's profi= le page with links to the stories on various sites and/or LJ. =A0 =A0 I won= der how people who don't participate in contests or haven't been nominated/= won something feel by seeing other people's banners though. Does it make th= em feel like no one will read their stories because they don't have a banne= r. There is an HP website that I have read on a few times and I'll admit, I= 'm drawn to the stories with the custom made banners (they aren't award ban= ners - they are story banners). Maybe its just me being drawn to anything s= hiny or blinking lol but I would hate for anyone to feel like they were bei= ng excluded or would be overlooked due to their story NOT having award/nomi= nation banners. =A0 =A0 ~~**~~ A day without sunshine is like, night. = ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --- On Mon, 12/15/08, heartofoshun@= aol.com wrote: From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Awards and the Archiv= e (was "Image Use on the ... To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com D= ate: Monday, December 15, 2008, 12:35 PM =A0 I am reluctant to make= "official" any recognition of award recipients on the archive. Great poin= ts. I agree with them. Although,=A0I am not crazy about the series idea eit= her. But if everyone else put their MEFA-winning stories in one, I would do= so also. =A0 I think it for me it not to announce the honor per se, and I= do feel it is an honor to be reconized by ones peers, but wanting at least= for a little while to draw attention to a particular story was why I value= d the banners. I'll be=A0happy with whatever you decide. The SWG is the clo= sest thing I have to a home on the internet and I would be willing to do a = lot more than take down a few banners from a particular location to keep it= a harmonious one. I got whiney because I just spent way too much time rece= ntly looking at samples of banners, lettering them or having people make th= em for me, then struggling to=A0get the right codes to have them visible, e= tc., etc. Way too much time! =A0 I don't think anyone could conceivably car= e what I think about this, but Marta's idea of saving them only as momentos= doesn't work for me personally. I think my computer is going to crash any = day now and I only back up writing and certain valued family photos on a=A0= regular basis. In my little world there is no more room for computer trivia= that has no practical use. (If my printer hadn't broken I would print them= .) I am the bag lady of computer users right now! =A0 I am positively psyc= hed when I win an award, even if only a little more than six people are res= ponsible for that win. And I am always looking for some way to promote the = strories I work so hard writing. Those were my only concerns. Make you= r life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place= . Try it now. --0-1730966061-1229366728=:50359 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Oshun - Even if you don't have it on your summary page - you can still have it both in your story summary and on your profile. Not to mention on HASA(in the story), OSA (in the summary), and LJ (anywhere you want it). I'm not sure about FF.net but you might be able to post it there in your profile too.
 
I like it in the summary page as well (with the smaller size of 110 x 70) but if we're told to move it, then there are lots of other places for me to post it other than just leaving it on my hard drive. Since I post on various sites, I keep all of my award banners on my writing LJ's profile page with links to the stories on various sites and/or LJ.  
 
I wonder how people who don't participate in contests or haven't been nominated/won something feel by seeing other people's banners though. Does it make them feel like no one will read their stories because they don't have a banner. There is an HP website that I have read on a few times and I'll admit, I'm drawn to the stories with the custom made banners (they aren't award banners - they are story banners). Maybe its just me being drawn to anything shiny or blinking lol but I would hate for anyone to feel like they were being excluded or would be overlooked due to their story NOT having award/nomination banners.

 
 
~~**~~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?


--- On Mon, 12/15/08, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Awards and the Archive (was "Image Use on the ...
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 12:35 PM

 
I am reluctant to make "official" any recognition of award recipients on the archive.
Great points. I agree with them. Although, I am not crazy about the series idea either. But if everyone else put their MEFA-winning stories in one, I would do so also.
 
I think it for me it not to announce the honor per se, and I do feel it is an honor to be reconized by ones peers, but wanting at least for a little while to draw attention to a particular story was why I valued the banners. I'll be happy with whatever you decide. The SWG is the closest thing I have to a home on the internet and I would be willing to do a lot more than take down a few banners from a particular location to keep it a harmonious one. I got whiney because I just spent way too much time recently looking at samples of banners, lettering them or having people make them for me, then struggling to get the right codes to have them visible, etc., etc. Way too much time!
 
I don't think anyone could conceivably care what I think about this, but Marta's idea of saving them only as momentos doesn't work for me personally. I think my computer is going to crash any day now and I only back up writing and certain valued family photos on a regular basis. In my little world there is no more room for computer trivia that has no practical use. (If my printer hadn't broken I would print them.) I am the bag lady of computer users right now!
 
I am positively psyched when I win an award, even if only a little more than six people are responsible for that win. And I am always looking for some way to promote the strories I work so hard writing. Those were my only concerns.




--0-1730966061-1229366728=:50359-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2352 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44577 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2008 18:59:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2008 18:59:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2008 18:59:33 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.d43.2edcbb27 (39955) for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:59:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:59:22 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1229367562" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Awards and the Archive (was "Image Use on the ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=WFclPGbdBLKACsZjgRk8ijGkEuE-BjLSWyTKEkMFLDjJZDQ4s1cD X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1229367562 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe its just me being drawn to anything shiny or blinking lol but I would hate for anyone to feel like they were being excluded or would be overlooked due to their story NOT having award/nomination banners. Hey. The best stories I know do not have banners! Some people have talent! I have banners. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) -------------------------------1229367562 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Maybe its just me being drawn to anything shiny o= r blinking lol but I would hate for anyone to feel like they were being = excluded or would be overlooked due to their story NOT having award/nomi= nation banners.
Hey. The best stories I know do no= t have banners! Some people have talent! I have banners.

 
 


Make your life easier with all your f= riends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try = it now.
-------------------------------1229367562-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2353 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96990 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2008 20:49:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2008 20:49:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.156) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2008 20:49:35 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so1514512ywk.48 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:49:35 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.207.8 with SMTP id e8mr2948192wfg.198.1229374174718; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:49:34 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.222.8 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:49:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:49:34 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_117871_15788740.1229374174696" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Fanfic Awards (was "Awards and the Archive") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Ws6TRdjdmJZIx8fs2WPOR6uFbeF0JczWtdZq-OnOu2WEFZg4726f X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_117871_15788740.1229374174696-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2354 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19281 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2008 03:34:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Dec 2008 03:34:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.170) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2008 03:34:33 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 27so5280799wfd.21 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:34:33 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.230.9 with SMTP id c9mr5945120wfh.101.1230608073090; Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:34:33 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.188.8 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:34:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:34:33 -0500 To: SWG , "Henneth Annun" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_111768_31442076.1230608073081" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: SSP: New Heretic Loremaster Posts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-0S0f5DRmBHVYbJIBgFjKlpg_UopldzBpW8D1pxo_D1UEwvUi0qP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_111768_31442076.1230608073081-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2355 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43025 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2009 02:46:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2009 02:46:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2009 02:46:35 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 14620 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2009 02:46:34 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: bFdXemQVM1moE.J7CWZotmtEq.y5AdKMMQeDGDE.IwQfkydcwV7ruk8HYAoxNt.ci8Rvb0F5meqpOzJxPN3WLKQ5HKuDUTP7QZWknGmS5MOwIg.yfr0I2UoZ9UJaTaSacJNqwrfIv9LSd1sPrqecprtU3z.gQHrsYRsZXHXEvXmXuzLOz_pMHutj4qNT2r7Ns7_DP9gzIKGmFNOmevJVAOWhoa2E82_tPxj2Sg-- X-Received: from [98.16.54.109] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 18:46:34 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 18:46:34 -0800 (PST) To: leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild , lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-623309377-1230864394=:99073" Message-ID: <532027.99073.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] January's Theme-New Beginnings-plus notice about last month's voting/submission X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=qPvaagnU3X1cFpCu5PKFJLSbGrVVWcan5Q__Wopu6guKPCfNWA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-623309377-1230864394=:99073 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- On Thu, 1/1/09, alassante7 wrote: From: alassant= e7 Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] January's Them= e-New Beginnings-plus notice about last month's voting/submission To: A_Lon= g_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 9:39 PM= Then Aragorn laid his hand gently to the saplin= g, and lo! it seemed to hold only lightly to the earth, and it was removed = without hurt; and Aragorn bore it back to the Citadel. Then the withered tr= ee was uprooted, but with reverence; and they did not burn it, but laid it = to rest in the silence of Rath D=EDnen. And Aragorn planted the new tree in= the court by the fountain, and swiftly and gladly it began to grow; and wh= en the month of June entered in it was laden with blossom. 'The sign has b= een given,' said Aragorn, 'and the day is not far off.' And he set watchmen= upon the walls. It was the day before Midsummer when messengers came from= Amon Dn to the City, and they said that there was a riding of fair folk ou= t of the North, and they drew near now to the walls of the Pelennor. And th= e King said: 'At last they have come. Let all the City be made ready!' Ret= urn of the King - JRR Tolkien Book 2, Chapter 5 The Steward and the King = At the start of the year, it seems only right to have the theme be New Begi= nnings! Itdoes not have to be based on documented events in the book and = thewords in the theme do not have to be included in the fiction. Eachwriter= has until January 31, 11:59 PM PST=A0to turn in the story (email to alikat= skorner@ rockfan.com=A0). Both submission for last month's theme Holiday = Moments and voting for stories for A Little Night Music=A0 ends Saturday, J= anuary 3 at 11:59 PM PSTTo find ALEC - look here! http://community. livejou= rnal. com/a_l_e_ c/=A0 and here - http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/A_Long_ E= xpected_ Contest/ Good luck and happy writing! = --0-623309377-1230864394=:99073 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- On Thu, 1/1/0= 9, alassante7 wrote:
From: alassante7
Subject: [A_= Long_Expected_Contest] January's Theme-New Beginnings-plus notice about las= t month's voting/submission
To: A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.com<= br>Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 9:39 PM

Then Aragorn laid his hand gently= to the sapling, and lo! it seemed to hold only lightly to the earth, and i= t was removed without hurt; and Aragorn bore it back to the Citadel. Then t= he withered tree was uprooted, but with reverence; and they did not burn it= , but laid it to rest in the silence of
Rath D=EDnen. And Aragorn plante= d the new tree in the court by the fountain, and swiftly and gladly it bega= n to grow; and when the month of June entered in it was laden with blossom.=

'The sign has been given,' said Aragorn, 'and the day is not far of= f.' And he set watchmen upon the walls.

It was the day before Midsum= mer when messengers came from Amon Dn to the City, and they said that there= was a riding of fair folk out of the North, and they drew near now to the = walls of the Pelennor. And the King said: 'At last they have come. Let all = the City be made ready!'

Return of the King - JRR Tolkien
Book 2= , Chapter 5 The Steward and the King


At the start of the year, it seems only right to have the th= eme be New Beginnings!

Itdoes not have to be based on documented ev= ents in the book and thewords in the theme do not have to be included in th= e fiction. Eachwriter has until January 31, 11:59 PM PST to turn in the story (email to alikatskorner@ rockfan.com ).

Both submission for last month's theme H= oliday Moments and voting for stories for A Little Night Music  ends S= aturday, January 3 at 11:59 PM PST

To find ALEC -= look here! http://community. livejo= urnal. com/a_l_e_ c/  and here - http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/A_Long_ Expected_ Contest= /

Good luck and happy writing!

=


--0-623309377-1230864394=:99073-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2356 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29328 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2009 18:19:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2009 18:19:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.169) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2009 18:19:01 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so6113253wfa.8 for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:19:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.84.11 with SMTP id h11mr6930767wfb.337.1230920341769; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:19:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.142.141.6 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:19:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:19:01 -0500 To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_145041_2273974.1230920341755" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: January 2009 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=2Oq0Mad4o1hP8x9dtfVu9ybCzqUMhokpgP_QSB18ZiCd3tAJseDN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_145041_2273974.1230920341755-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2357 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19200 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2009 19:39:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2009 19:39:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2009 19:39:19 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 28113 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jan 2009 19:39:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Q3s3VrYVM1ntlJ9.LauXzwrjaknmIp.F4M3V0xYynMUPuS8LJgn3dIlDyhCr8BvyVhkTOfCRc5doeEl0DV0DgeX_x_YVQiiDxVmPAB__HkXE7CVf66IPlEWeu0MvHYeIZKT83D_GRQ7O1qd7A6ptCekjsYXbNbgm3EOl1mYBqYWpemA- X-Received: from [98.16.54.109] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 04 Jan 2009 11:39:15 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:39:15 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-800894825-1231097955=:28036" Message-ID: <948767.28036.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Victim of the Unlight X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=QQHPW_Yqp-QVGs1GK1Ef3VfqohnUnKJD40_YRYz9kBO6e9wv-g X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-800894825-1231097955=:28036 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A/N Thanks so much to Viv, Sulriel, and Rhyselle for their help in editing= this piece! ~*~ Wirilom=EB =96 Quenya for Ungoliant Maitimo =96= Quenya for Maedhros Finwe could taste death in his throat, but he = swallowed it viciously and clawed his way across the blood-slick stone. His= mortal wounds drained his essence, fea aching to flee his ravished hroa. H= e had to stop Melkor from taking the Silmarils. His sword lay nearby and he= reached for it, then grasping the hilt of it. On his hands and knees, he c= rawled to a chair and pulled himself up, ignoring the agony that racked his= body. Stumbling toward the hall, Finw=EB listened to the sounds in the = house and knew that Melkor and Wirilom=EB were approaching. He pressed hims= elf against the wall to stablize himself. Melkor would think him dead so he= had little time to press his advantage of a surprise attack. Glancing down= , he saw the blood flowing freely from his wounds, leaving a trail of blood= back to where he had fallen. =91I will not last the night.=92 He had no= time to say farewell to those he loved. Finw=EB did not have time to dw= ell on this fact before he felt the darkness of the fallen Vala, suffocatin= gly cold and heavy, surround him long before he saw Melkor and Wirilom=EB. = Throwing himself in their path, he swung his sword at the neck of his foe. = Melkor barely blinked before he grabbed the sword and flung it away, knocki= ng Finw=EB off center. Grasping the elf lord by the throat, Melkor held him= off his feet and laughed. Finwe grasped at his fingers desperately trying = to breathe as he felt his windpipe crushing and darkness bordered the edges= of his vision. Melkor, no doubt a master at tempered violence, seemed to k= now exactly how tightly he could squeeze without the elf passing out from l= ack of air so he could torture the elf further. =93You think you can def= eat me? I am more powerful than you could even dream.=94 Melkor=92s voice b= oomed over the sound of his heart pounding in his ears. =93Fean=E1ro wil= l stop you. He will rip you to shreds for what you have done. The full wrat= h of the Valar will aid him in this=85=94 Finw=EB gasped as Melkor=92s fing= ers tightened on his throat. Melkor flung the elf across the room as if = he was weightless. Finw=EB crashed into a table before he hit the wall. Sli= ding into a heap of broken bones and gaping wounds, he bit his lip to avoid= crying out. He would not allow Melkor see any weakness. Looking up, he saw= the Vala=92s face twisted in cruel victory. Despite his best effort, he no= w shook in fear as he saw the true face of evil incarnate. =93You are no= w broken, elf, and soon you will draw your last breath. Realize that as you= do, I have now claimed the greatest creations of the Noldo as my own. You = are nothing, unable to defend your home nor your honor =96 less than a buzz= ing insect in my way. I fear not Fean=E1ro, nor the Valar for I alone impro= ved the song of Il=FAvatar. And now we destroyed the Two Trees that the Val= ar hold most beloved, they will be licking their wounds, not attempting to = stop me. Fean=E1ro is nothing but a brilliant craftsman. I am He Who Has Ar= isen in Might! I would strike him down as easily as I have you.=94 Melkor l= aughed again before adding. =93Go now Finw=EB. Join your wife who chose to = fade rather than look upon the son she had brought into the world. She knew= even then that he would prove the ruin of the Noldo, dividing them forever= to serve his own means.=94 Melkor turned and followed Wirilom=EB from t= he keep into the darkness. Finw=EB breathing rattled in his lungs, agony fi= lling every inch of his body. He could no longer move and all the fight lef= t in him crept away in the darkness. He watched in detached calm the puddle= of blood growing below him. The Trees were destroyed, the Silmarils sto= len into the night. What was left of peace in these lands? Hope was lost. T= ears of regret stained his cheeks as he tried to will himself to let go. He= knew his son would fight to his dying breath to regain the Silmarils. He h= ad failed by letting Melkor take them from this house. He had failed as the= King of the Noldor. He had failed his family. His blood so carelessly flow= ing from his body was not strong enough to substain his life anymore. = =91Miriel, I come to you now as I have often wanted to do before. Please fo= rgive me for my weakness and misdeeds.=92 Even as his f=EBa left him, = called to the Halls of Mandos, Finw=EB=92s death was just being discovered.= His oldest grandson, Maitimo, held his lifeless body as he cried out and c= ursed the one who brought this death upon their house. He died ignorant of = what madness his death and the loss of the Silmarils would lead the Noldo t= o commit. Soon he would be joined by the many Teleri slaughtered upon the s= words of the House of Finw=EB. =A0 =A0 ~~**~~ A day without sunshin= e is like, night. ~*~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --0-800894825-1231097955=:28036 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A/N Thanks so mu= ch to Viv, Sulriel, and Rhyselle for their help in editing this piece!
=
~*~


Wirilom=EB =96 Quenya for Ungoliant
Maitimo = =96 Quenya for Maedhros



Finwe could taste death in= his throat, but he swallowed it viciously and clawed his way across the bl= ood-slick stone. His mortal wounds drained his essence, fea aching to flee = his ravished hroa. He had to stop Melkor from taking the Silmarils. His swo= rd lay nearby and he reached for it, then grasping the hilt of it. On his h= ands and knees, he crawled to a chair and pulled himself up, ignoring the a= gony that racked his body.

Stumbling toward the hall, Finw=EB list= ened to the sounds in the house and knew that Melkor and Wirilom=EB were ap= proaching. He pressed himself against the wall to stablize himself. Melkor = would think him dead so he had little time to press his advantage of a surp= rise attack. Glancing down, he saw the blood flowing freely from his wounds= , leaving a trail of blood back to where he had fallen.

=91I will = not last the night.=92 He had no time to say farewell to those he loved.
Finw=EB did not have time to dwell on this fact before he felt the d= arkness of the fallen Vala, suffocatingly cold and heavy, surround him long= before he saw Melkor and Wirilom=EB. Throwing himself in their path, he sw= ung his sword at the neck of his foe. Melkor barely blinked before he grabb= ed the sword and flung it away, knocking Finw=EB off center. Grasping the e= lf lord by the throat, Melkor held him off his feet and laughed. Finwe gras= ped at his fingers desperately trying to breathe as he felt his windpipe cr= ushing and darkness bordered the edges of his vision. Melkor, no doubt a ma= ster at tempered violence, seemed to know exactly how tightly he could sque= eze without the elf passing out from lack of air so he could torture the el= f further.

=93You think you can defeat me? I am more powerful than= you could even dream.=94 Melkor=92s voice boomed over the sound of his hea= rt pounding in his ears.

=93Fean=E1ro will stop you. He will rip y= ou to shreds for what you have done. The full wrath of the Valar will aid h= im in this=85=94 Finw=EB gasped as Melkor=92s fingers tightened on his thro= at.

Melkor flung the elf across the room as if he was weightless. = Finw=EB crashed into a table before he hit the wall. Sliding into a heap of= broken bones and gaping wounds, he bit his lip to avoid crying out. He wou= ld not allow Melkor see any weakness. Looking up, he saw the Vala=92s face = twisted in cruel victory. Despite his best effort, he now shook in fear as = he saw the true face of evil incarnate.

=93You are now broken, elf= , and soon you will draw your last breath. Realize that as you do, I have n= ow claimed the greatest creations of the Noldo as my own. You are nothing, = unable to defend your home nor your honor =96 less than a buzzing insect in= my way. I fear not Fean=E1ro, nor the Valar for I alone improved the song = of Il=FAvatar. And now we destroyed the Two Trees that the Valar hold most = beloved, they will be licking their wounds, not attempting to stop me. Fean= =E1ro is nothing but a brilliant craftsman. I am He Who Has Arisen in Might= ! I would strike him down as easily as I have you.=94 Melkor laughed again = before adding. =93Go now Finw=EB. Join your wife who chose to fade rather t= han look upon the son she had brought into the world. She knew even then th= at he would prove the ruin of the Noldo, dividing them forever to serve his= own means.=94

Melkor turned and followed Wirilom=EB from the keep= into the darkness. Finw=EB breathing rattled in his lungs, agony filling e= very inch of his body. He could no longer move and all the fight left in hi= m crept away in the darkness. He watched in detached calm the puddle of blo= od growing below him.

The Trees were destroyed, the Silmarils stol= en into the night. What was left of peace in these lands? Hope was lost. Te= ars of regret stained his cheeks as he tried to will himself to let go. He = knew his son would fight to his dying breath to regain the Silmarils. He ha= d failed by letting Melkor take them from this house. He had failed as the = King of the Noldor. He had failed his family. His blood so carelessly flowi= ng from his body was not strong enough to substain his life anymore.
=91Miriel, I come to you now as I have often wanted to do before. Please= forgive me for my weakness and misdeeds.=92


Even as his = f=EBa left him, called to the Halls of Mandos, Finw=EB=92s death was just b= eing discovered. His oldest grandson, Maitimo, held his lifeless body as he= cried out and cursed the one who brought this death upon their house. He d= ied ignorant of what madness his death and the loss of the Silmarils would = lead the Noldo to commit. Soon he would be joined by the many Teleri slaugh= tered upon the swords of the House of Finw=EB.

 
 
~~**~~<= /em>
A day without sunshine is like, night. =
~*~
Okay - so whats the speed of dark?
<= em>

--0-800894825-1231097955=:28036-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2358 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36796 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 12:14:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 12:14:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 12:14:57 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2009 12:14:57 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2009 12:14:57 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:14:54 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=lKI5LoFKuXnTVTjzF1LTllxZk8gFfTlLQ8ziJXj-FX70agO1Bd0CiqtOUQ X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfiction of late. It seem= s to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the day to day lives of elv= es in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of transposing life as we know it= today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impression that a lot of fanfictio= n writers were super imposing suburbane houses into Aman. Few of the chief= things that have struck me, 1. House hold chores: I rather doubt any of t= he sons of Feanor cleaned there own room, ever! By cleaning I do mean dust= ing of shelves, moping of floors, although I am sure they did arrange thei= r own books on the said shelf. 2. Servants: I am sure Feanor had a lot of= servants. I get the feeling that a lot of fanfic writers are uncomfortabl= e with the idea of servants. Possible because servants do have a negative = conotation to a lot of people. I assure you servant just means someone who= se duty it is to provide domestic service. There is nothing inheriently n= egative about being a servant. 3. Size of houses: This is a bit more umm..= . oblique. To begin with I am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and other would have = had multi-bedroom mansons with many live-in servants and their families. B= ut I kind of got the impression the houses of the lords were like the hous= es of the old lords during the Middle Ages. You know, almost a town within= castle walls. I got this from Rivendell's description as the Last Homely= Home east of the great sea, which implies that there are more Homely Home= s west of the great sea. Last point I thought I would mention is cooking.= The question is would Nardanel and others be cooking on a daily basis. Th= is is complicated. Because 1) Ladies of the houses did used cook/closely = supervise cooking in South Asia, but 2) I am not sure of the status of coo= king in the west. I got the impression from reading Jane Austin, the daugh= ter of the house being needed to cook usually indicated that the family wa= s not quite as well off as they should be. I am not sure. Anyway, any com= ments? Am I the only one who thinks that modern subarbia is making an appe= arance in Aman? Do people think life in Aman was like modern suburbia? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2359 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94190 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 13:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 13:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.89) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 13:39:04 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 13748 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 13:39:03 -0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.0 (2007-05-01) on WARSBL601.highway.telekom.at X-Spam-Level: X-Received: from 62-47-189-151.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.189.151]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub92.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 17 Jan 2009 13:39:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <4971E09A.000001.03292@MARINA> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:43:54 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_6HBMQL80000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=61eZ_f9X335GEeUuB4rw6P-JXT4GQtVkK4oawluiv-ytPFzTKgOm X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_6HBMQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I rarely say something but this did wake me up today and I like to know oth= er opinions as well. As an inspiration Tolkien used the Finnish Kalevala. Lucky me, I read this= before I ever stumbled over Tolkien's work. In 1993 I joined the Tolkien s= ociety shortly after I had finished university (master in ancient history).= So, I don't want to step on anyone's toes since we always must remember th= at fanfiction is an area which is open and free to the inspiration and idea= s of each single author. I think (my personal opinion again) that we will h= ave to look at old, old Europe. The Finnish story, which Tolkien partially = took one to one into the Sil, happens in the high north, in a rural rather = primitive surrounding, the Valar however he seemed to have mixed and mingle= d out of the Bible's 12 arch angels and the Greek Gods. There we go. Let us= mix Ancient Greek (Alexander, Sokrates, Plato..please forgive us) with the= Finnish National Song..oh boy. I just want to add a few things to Tinni's points: @ 1. I am not sure if Feanor had a household that could be described like a Eu= ropean Royal Court". The dusting of shelves etc is something I do not see h= appening at all just like the "strawberry and cream meals" some authors lik= e to describe (absolut AU). A society that is based historical where..??? 1= 0.000 years before our time, 5000 years? What I wanted to say is, that a ci= vilization which is using bow and arrow probably does not drink out of fine= finest porcelain. Not because they would have not known how to do it, it m= ay simply not have been in their interest. They may have used magic and pow= er for certain crafts but I have the odd feeling that the elves of the Sil= marillion were not "Harry Potter and Friends". So, cleaning might have not= been so necessary or useful in a house, cottage, stone structure...due to = the lack of furniture :) @ 2. Servants, yes probably but not sure either. Perhaps Tolkien thought of ser= vants in a way that they had been in ancient times: a stable boy, a kitchen= maid (I am not talking about the machine please!). Ancient society, lots o= f men (elvish ones) little known about the females..taking his inspirations= in..then the ladies were more or less housebound (besides some that stood = out) and knew from cooking, to wool spinning every chore necessary to overs= ee staff and family and of course help out at any given time (even Sappho f= rom ancient Greece had to do household chores). Elf men were busy planing w= ar..why does this make me think that nothing has changed? @ 3. Regular people: long houses, open fire, fire bowls in the middle of the st= ructures, sleeping probably all in one large room where also all life happe= ned, children were born and begotten.. elf lords: I guess not much of difference. Perhaps the lords had separate = quarters..I like to think at those houses like the many places Frank King C= harles the Great used to live in or to set it further back in time like a p= lace Vercingetorix used to be. For the maximum of luxury (and that would be= anyway extremely great and would go with Tinni's idea of servants) let us = think of King Darius' of Persia palace. That was definitely amazing. But if= we go further back then Kind Cyrus did not live in such wealth. So the Chi= nese emperors and the Persian or Egyptian Courts may be helpful in research= when describing the living quarters...just we shall not forget the climate= ..Tolkien may have not thought about a tropic paradise (sarcastic). @ cooking I do think like Tinni on that. They may have cooked or supervised. definit= ely was more on their menu plan than lembas and water :) For the food we ag= ain have to think ancient European due to the inspiration of Tolkien. That = would leave us with a variety of "old" but healthy food (no, there is no fa= st food around just in AU :). On livestock that was raised in Valinor or perhaps "overseas" then: cattle= (one per household if even that much, cattle is expensive to keep and lots= of work) probably more sheep and goats, rabbits, rabbits, horses...chicken= was introduced to Europe very late (the Greeks had only heard about it)...= so the practice of cleaning out wild bird nests would be possible.=20 hunted game: think northern: moose, elf, deer, chamois (high alpine)..all = kinds of wild sheep, wolverine...fox (just remember that latter animals hav= e been eaten just until the WW2).=20 Cooking probably did not happen on a stove but over open fire in a kettle. Vegetable: beets, roots of all kinds, chards, mushrooms fruits: apple, pear, apricot...all kinds of berries to be harvested. ..I d= on t see oranges on the regular menu :)..but later in the 3Age (which is no= t Sil) Rhun may have been warm enough for olives, sweet wines,..ocra...thou= gh were the elves there?=20 Well, perhaps they feasted like in ancient Rome...this is going to overthr= ow all our ideas again..anyone in the mood for roasted peacock tongues and = swan eyes? A modern life like we have today..nope, I can not see it..but who knows wh= at really was on Tolkien's mind :) I hope I did not step on anyone's toes. = These were just my few pennies I wanted to throw in :) Marina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Tinni Date: 01/17/09 13:15:04 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves =20 I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfiction of late. It=20 seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the day to day=20 lives of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of transposing=20 life as we know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impression=20 that a lot of fanfiction writers were super imposing suburbane houses=20 into Aman. Few of the chief things that have struck me, 1. House hold chores: I rather doubt any of the sons of Feanor=20 cleaned there own room, ever! By cleaning I do mean dusting of=20 shelves, moping of floors, although I am sure they did arrange their=20 own books on the said shelf. 2. Servants: I am sure Feanor had a lot of servants. I get the=20 feeling that a lot of fanfic writers are uncomfortable with the idea=20 of servants. Possible because servants do have a negative conotation=20 to a lot of people. I assure you servant just means someone whose=20 duty it is to provide domestic service. There is nothing inheriently=20 negative about being a servant. 3. Size of houses: This is a bit more umm... oblique. To begin with I=20 am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and other would have had multi-bedroom=20 mansons with many live-in servants and their families. But I kind of=20 got the impression the houses of the lords were like the houses of=20 the old lords during the Middle Ages. You know, almost a town within=20 castle walls. I got this from Rivendell's description as the Last=20 Homely Home east of the great sea, which implies that there are more=20 Homely Homes west of the great sea. Last point I thought I would mention is cooking. The question is=20 would Nardanel and others be cooking on a daily basis. This is=20 complicated. Because 1) Ladies of the houses did used cook/closely=20 supervise cooking in South Asia, but 2) I am not sure of the status=20 of cooking in the west. I got the impression from reading Jane=20 Austin, the daughter of the house being needed to cook usually=20 indicated that the family was not quite as well off as they should=20 be. I am not sure. Anyway, any comments? Am I the only one who thinks that modern=20 subarbia is making an appearance in Aman? Do people think life in=20 Aman was like modern suburbia?=20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_6HBMQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I rarely say something = but this did wake me up today and I like to know other opinions as well.
 
As an inspiration Tolkien used the Finnish = Kalevala. Lucky me, I read this before I ever stumbled over = Tolkien's work. In 1993 I joined the Tolkien society shortly after I had fi= nished university (master in ancient history). So, I don't want to step on = anyone's toes since we always must remember that fanfiction is an area whic= h is open and free to the inspiration and ideas of each single author. I th= ink (my personal opinion again) that we will have to look at old, old Europ= e. The Finnish story, which Tolkien partially took one to one into the Sil,= happens in the high north, in a rural rather primitive surrounding, t= he Valar however he seemed to have mixed and mingled out of the Bible's 12 = arch angels and the Greek Gods. There we go. Let us mix Ancient Greek (Alex= ander, Sokrates, Plato..please forgive us) with the Finnish National Song..= oh boy.
 
I just want to add a few things to Tin= ni's points:
 
@ 1.
I am not sure if = Feanor had a household that could be described like a "European Royal = Court". The dusting of shelves etc is something I do not see happening= at all just like the "strawberry and cream meals" some authors like to&nbs= p;describe (absolut AU). A society that is based historical where..??? 10.0= 00 years before our time, 5000 years? What I wanted to say is, that a civil= ization which is using bow and arrow probably does not drink out of fine fi= nest porcelain. Not because they would have not known how to do it, it may = simply not have been in their interest. They may have used magic and power = for certain crafts but I have the odd feeling that  the elves of = the Silmarillion were not "Harry Potter and Friends".  So, cleaning mi= ght have not been so necessary or useful in a house, cottage, stone structu= re...due to the lack of furniture :)
 
@ 2.
Servants, yes probably but not sure either. Perhaps Tolkien thought = of servants in a way that they had been in ancient times: a stable boy, a k= itchen maid (I am not talking about the machine please!). Ancient society, = lots of men (elvish ones) little known about the females..taking his inspir= ations in..then the ladies were more or less housebound (besides some that = stood out) and knew from cooking, to wool spinning every chore necessary to= oversee staff and family and of course help out at any given time (even Sa= ppho from ancient Greece had to do household chores). Elf men were busy pla= ning war..why does this make me think that nothing has changed?
=  
@ 3.
Regular people: long houses, open fire, f= ire bowls in the middle of the structures, sleeping probably all in one lar= ge room where also all life happened, children were born and begotten..
elf lords: I guess not much of difference. Perhaps the lords had se= parate quarters..I like to think at those houses like the many places Frank= King Charles the Great used to live in or to set it further back in time l= ike a place Vercingetorix used to be. For the maximum of luxury (and that w= ould be anyway extremely great and would go with Tinni's idea of servants) = let us think of King Darius' of Persia palace. That was definitely amazing.= But if we go further back then Kind Cyrus did not live in such wealth. So = the Chinese emperors and the Persian or Egyptian Courts may be helpful in r= esearch when describing the living quarters...just we shall not forget the = climate..Tolkien may have not thought about a tropic paradise (sarcastic).<= /DIV>
 
@ cooking
 
I do th= ink like Tinni on that. They may have cooked or supervised..definitely was = more on their menu plan than lembas and water :) For the food we again have= to think ancient European due to the inspiration of Tolkien. That would le= ave us with a variety of "old" but healthy food (no, there is no fast food = around just in AU :).
 
On livestock that was ra= ised in Valinor or perhaps "overseas" then: cattle (one per household if ev= en that much, cattle is expensive to keep and lots of work) probably more s= heep and goats, rabbits, rabbits, horses...chicken was introduced to Europe= very late (the Greeks had only heard about it)...so the practice of cleani= ng out wild bird nests would be possible.
hunted game: think no= rthern: moose, elf, deer, chamois (high alpine)..all kinds of wild sheep, w= olverine...fox (just remember that latter animals have been eaten just unti= l the WW2).
Cooking probably did not happen on a stove but over= open fire in a kettle.
Vegetable: beets, roots of all kinds, ch= ards, mushrooms
fruits: apple, pear, apricot...all kinds of berr= ies to be harvested. ..I don't see oranges on the regular menu :)..but late= r in the 3Age (which is not Sil) Rhun may have been warm enough for olives,= sweet wines,..ocra...though were the elves there?
Well, perhap= s they feasted like in ancient Rome...this is going to overthrow all our id= eas again..anyone in the mood for roasted peacock tongues and swan eyes?
 
A modern life like we have today..nope, I can no= t see it..but who knows what really was on Tolkien's mind :) I hope I did n= ot step on anyone's toes. These were just my few pennies I wanted to throw = in :)
 
Marina
 
&nbs= p;
 
-------Origi= nal Message-------
 
From: Tinni
Date: 01/17/09 13:15:04
=
Subject: [Silmarill= ionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves
 
<= DIV id=3Dygrp-text>

I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfi= ction of late. It
seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe th= e day to day
lives of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of tr= ansposing
life as we know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the imp= ression
that a lot of fanfiction writers were super imposing suburbane = houses
into Aman. Few of the chief things that have struck me,

1= . House hold chores: I rather doubt any of the sons of Feanor
cleaned t= here own room, ever! By cleaning I do mean dusting of
shelves, moping o= f floors, although I am sure they did arrange their
own books on the sa= id shelf.

2. Servants: I am sure Feanor had a lot of servants. I get= the
feeling that a lot of fanfic writers are uncomfortable with the id= ea
of servants. Possible because servants do have a negative conotation=
to a lot of people. I assure you servant just means someone whose
= duty it is to provide domestic service. There is nothing inheriently
ne= gative about being a servant.

3. Size of houses: This is a bit more = umm... oblique. To begin with I
am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and other wou= ld have had multi-bedroom
mansons with many live-in servants and their = families. But I kind of
got the impression the houses of the lords were= like the houses of
the old lords during the Middle Ages. You know, alm= ost a town within
castle walls. I got this from Rivendell's description= as the Last
Homely Home east of the great sea, which implies that ther= e are more
Homely Homes west of the great sea.

Last point I thou= ght I would mention is cooking. The question is
would Nardanel and othe= rs be cooking on a daily basis. This is
complicated. Because 1) Ladies = of the houses did used cook/closely
supervise cooking in South Asia, bu= t 2) I am not sure of the status
of cooking in the west. I got the impr= ession from reading Jane
Austin, the daughter of the house being needed= to cook usually
indicated that the family was not quite as well off as= they should
be. I am not sure.

Anyway, any comments? Am I the o= nly one who thinks that modern
subarbia is making an appearance in Aman= ? Do people think life in
Aman was like modern suburbia?

 
3D"Add --------------Boundary-00=_6HBMQL80000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2360 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26654 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 14:00:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 14:00:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.28) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 14:00:00 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so917776ywj.41 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 05:59:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.90.97.18 with SMTP id u18mr1766628agb.2.1232200799740; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 05:59:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.90.92.13 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 05:59:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:59:59 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=Rvj22MVfemE-a4AmnehO7MUrXrQNkNYcwUc62mL0ZnIOK39q9loS2g X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva > Anyway, any comments? Am I the only one who thinks that modern > subarbia is making an appearance in Aman? Do people think life in > Aman was like modern suburbia? > Hiya Tinni, Well, I don't read enough Silmfic to comment on whether it is a fanon that's prevalent, but one thought: I get the impression that elvish populations don't grow very quickly. So that would mean there was less human (elfish, whatever) capital that a king had to spend. I think there would be *some* servants but maybe not as many as we think of, say in the human middle ages where you had a very stratified society and a good number of people who needed the princes for protection from enemies so were willing to do whatever they could to get in good wiht the person who could afford to provide for knights. Add to that fact that elves necessarily have very long memories, and even the elves born in Aman (Feanor's and Maglor's generations) would be the children or grandchildren of elves who had been hunted by orcs and had to pass through the wilderness. I think self-reliance would be a virtue. Nerdanel may not cook every day, but I'm sure she'd know *how* to cook, and I imagine her sons would know how to hunt (and dress what they hunted), on the off-chance that peace didn't last. I'm not saying elves *have* to behave this way; just saying I can see good reasons to downplay the servant issue, rather than authorial discomfort with the idea of servants. P.S. - Personally, I suspect there's also an element of not knowing how kings and princes fill their hours. What do the really powerful men do? I know I don't know what a king or prince does in that role, and I can't rely on my readers to be any more familiar. than I am. Easier to write what I know. And we're not unique in this. Look e.g. at "Star Trek." I've been watching old DS9 episodes lately. There you have a station commander, Benjamin Sisko, but a lot of the best scenes are him chatting with his son, cooking for his senior officers, or hanging out in the cafeteria - much like anyone would. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2361 Return-Path: X-Sender: deand12000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15336 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 14:26:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 14:26:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56002.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (216.252.110.181) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 14:26:28 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 32561 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jan 2009 14:26:27 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: rAXSsBkVM1lOOmLPdmNOihPuVM1APU1nxjS1LfHI1GBbPE.DYrZ6qbR7FOBxag51u4VKogw4Bwsia80eSdgR6epm1A5mjxVirZhrvIvLgAKU0bo3PMMWM.By1fFd4zsZutBLMvcIFkhN0Z_05OIovi1JZoydoWJM3jxS8FKEyCnd4vGXk8J9K0_abheqbLuKxVqYCt.Aleaekplf0nyiFmHSlxxryA-- X-Received: from [165.83.104.199] by web56002.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 06:26:27 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1155.45 YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 References: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 06:26:27 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-104544707-1232202387=:31344" Message-ID: <614266.31344.qm@web56002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dean Rowley Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=114134930; y=_W2PzzHnL2P98MrY9DtftDXaGWbQEvECdtJrSSNk7yjlHQLpKA X-Yahoo-Profile: deand12000 --0-104544707-1232202387=:31344 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tinni: In my LOTR and Silmarillion fic I do assume that the=A0 lives of th= e Elves are based on life as it would be lived in the time and area Tolkien= studied as a philologist. That would be North-West Europe including Scandi= navia around the year 1000. It helps that I am a historian in RL and have s= tudied this period, but the following web sites are accurate for introducto= ry information. Regia Anglorum: www.regia.org=A0This is a British reenacto= r group of modern people who recreate the life of Anglo-Saxon England, 850-= 1050. This seems to be Tolkien's main area of study so it is appropriate fo= r his Legendarium. Do not let the title Reenactor scare you. This group is = so accurate that some people call them 'experimental archaeologists'. Cast= le Learning Center:=A0www.castles-of-britain.com More general information a= bout building and living in castles. Viking Answer Lady: www.vikinganswerl= ady.com Premier site about Scandinavia, 700 - 1100. Also, the Vikings were = not the complete barbarians that the propaganda of the losers made them out= to be. For some specific responses to points below: 1. and 2. There was n= o electric power, steam power, or gas. EVERYTHING was done by muscle, human= or animal. Servants replaced everything from washing machines to microwave= ovens and back again. An upper class or Noble person, male or female, had = better things to do than that kind of manual labor so they had people to do= things for them. This was not considered demeaning, the children of lesser= Nobility would often serve the higher Nobility as servants to get the equi= valent of a higher education in ruling by hanging around the rulers. This = also covers cooking. Depending on the year - less in the late Middle Ages f= or instance - and the size of the house, the Lady of the House would superv= ise the household chores including cooking or supervise the servants-in-chi= ef who ran the household. Nerdanel would give instruction to the Cook. 3. = Accurate, but each house would include farmland around it to grow food, cat= tle for meat, and other necessities. Remember, no super markets or departme= nt stores, every thing was home made. The farms were supervised from the ma= in house, again usually by a steward or another manager, not by the Lord. N= ot so incidentally, the Steward of Gondor was probably the equivalent of th= e city manager or Prime Minister when Gondor still had Kings and simply too= k over when the last King died because many important positions like that W= ERE hereditary in families. That means I usually thing of a ruler's home in= the Blessed Lands or a place like The Last Homely House as large complexes= of mansions, farmhouses, workshops, and perhaps a port on the river surrou= nded by a small village. The King, Master, whatever title the ruler claimed= , would supervise servants or a chief manager and his wife would supervise = the family/servants personal affairs. The chief 'servants' would perhaps b= e relatively important local leaders who would serve the ruler/kingdom by r= unning some of the ruler's business for him. In short, life in a Royal hou= se of Aman was nothing like modern life at all, much less modern suburbia. = Dean Maia of Este (to some) Ranger1 (to others) UberMiddleAgesGeek (to all= ) ________________________________ From: Tinni To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 17,= 2009 7:14:54 AM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of e= lves I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfiction of late. I= t seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the day to day lives= of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of transposing life as we = know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impression that a lot of fa= nfiction writers were super imposing suburbane houses into Aman. Few of th= e chief things that have struck me, 1. House hold chores: I rather doubt a= ny of the sons of Feanor cleaned there own room, ever! By cleaning I do me= an dusting of shelves, moping of floors, although I am sure they did arran= ge their own books on the said shelf. 2. Servants: I am sure Feanor had a= lot of servants. I get the feeling that a lot of fanfic writers are uncom= fortable with the idea of servants. Possible because servants do have a ne= gative conotation to a lot of people. I assure you servant just means some= one whose duty it is to provide domestic service. There is nothing inherie= ntly negative about being a servant. 3. Size of houses: This is a bit mor= e umm... oblique. To begin with I am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and other woul= d have had multi-bedroom mansons with many live-in servants and their fami= lies. But I kind of got the impression the houses of the lords were like t= he houses of the old lords during the Middle Ages. You know, almost a town= within castle walls. I got this from Rivendell's description as the Last = Homely Home east of the great sea, which implies that there are more Home= ly Homes west of the great sea. Last point I thought I would mention is co= oking. The question is would Nardanel and others be cooking on a daily bas= is. This is complicated. Because 1) Ladies of the houses did used cook/clo= sely supervise cooking in South Asia, but 2) I am not sure of the status = of cooking in the west. I got the impression from reading Jane Austin, the= daughter of the house being needed to cook usually indicated that the fam= ily was not quite as well off as they should be. I am not sure. Anyway, a= ny comments? Am I the only one who thinks that modern subarbia is making a= n appearance in Aman? Do people think life in Aman was like modern suburbi= a? --0-104544707-1232202387=:31344 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Tinni:
 
In my LOTR and Silmarillion fic I do assume that the  lives of the Elves are based on life as it would be lived in the time and area Tolkien studied as a philologist. That would be North-West Europe including Scandinavia around the year 1000. It helps that I am a historian in RL and have studied this period, but the following web sites are accurate for introductory information.
 
Regia Anglorum: www.regia.org This is a British reenactor group of modern people who recreate the life of Anglo-Saxon England, 850-1050. This seems to be Tolkien's main area of study so it is appropriate for his Legendarium. Do not let the title Reenactor scare you. This group is so accurate that some people call them 'experimental archaeologists'.
 
Castle Learning Center: www.castles-of-britain.com More general information about building and living in castles.
 
Viking Answer Lady: www.vikinganswerlady.com Premier site about Scandinavia, 700 - 1100. Also, the Vikings were not the complete barbarians that the propaganda of the losers made them out to be.
 
For some specific responses to points below:
1. and 2. There was no electric power, steam power, or gas. EVERYTHING was done by muscle, human or animal. Servants replaced everything from washing machines to microwave ovens and back again. An upper class or Noble person, male or female, had better things to do than that kind of manual labor so they had people to do things for them. This was not considered demeaning, the children of lesser Nobility would often serve the higher Nobility as servants to get the equivalent of a higher education in ruling by hanging around the rulers.
 
This also covers cooking. Depending on the year - less in the late Middle Ages for instance - and the size of the house, the Lady of the House would supervise the household chores including cooking or supervise the servants-in-chief who ran the household. Nerdanel would give instruction to the Cook.
 
3. Accurate, but each house would include farmland around it to grow food, cattle for meat, and other necessities. Remember, no super markets or department stores, every thing was home made. The farms were supervised from the main house, again usually by a steward or another manager, not by the Lord. Not so incidentally, the Steward of Gondor was probably the equivalent of the city manager or Prime Minister when Gondor still had Kings and simply took over when the last King died because many important positions like that WERE hereditary in families. That means I usually thing of a ruler's home in the Blessed Lands or a place like The Last Homely House as large complexes of mansions, farmhouses, workshops, and perhaps a port on the river surrounded by a small village. The King, Master, whatever title the ruler claimed, would supervise servants or a chief manager and his wife would supervise the family/servants personal affairs. The chief 'servants' would perhaps be relatively important local leaders who would serve the ruler/kingdom by running some of the ruler's business for him.
 
In short, life in a Royal house of Aman was nothing like modern life at all, much less modern suburbia.
 
Dean Maia of Este (to some) Ranger1 (to others) UberMiddleAgesGeek (to all)
From: Tinni
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:14:54 AM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves

I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfiction of late. It
seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the day to day
lives of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of transposing
life as we know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impression
that a lot of fanfiction writers were super imposing suburbane houses
into Aman. Few of the chief things that have struck me,

1. House hold chores: I rather doubt any of the sons of Feanor
cleaned there own room, ever! By cleaning I do mean dusting of
shelves, moping of floors, although I am sure they did arrange their
own books on the said shelf.

2. Servants: I am sure Feanor had a lot of servants. I get the
feeling that a lot of fanfic writers are uncomfortable with the idea
of servants. Possible because servants do have a negative conotation
to a lot of people. I assure you servant just means someone whose
duty it is to provide domestic service. There is nothing inheriently
negative about being a servant.

3. Size of houses: This is a bit more umm... oblique. To begin with I
am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and other would have had multi-bedroom
mansons with many live-in servants and their families. But I kind of
got the impression the houses of the lords were like the houses of
the old lords during the Middle Ages. You know, almost a town within
castle walls. I got this from Rivendell's description as the Last
Homely Home east of the great sea, which implies that there are more
Homely Homes west of the great sea.

Last point I thought I would mention is cooking. The question is
would Nardanel and others be cooking on a daily basis. This is
complicated. Because 1) Ladies of the houses did used cook/closely
supervise cooking in South Asia, but 2) I am not sure of the status
of cooking in the west. I got the impression from reading Jane
Austin, the daughter of the house being needed to cook usually
indicated that the family was not quite as well off as they should
be. I am not sure.

Anyway, any comments? Am I the only one who thinks that modern
subarbia is making an appearance in Aman? Do people think life in
Aman was like modern suburbia?


--0-104544707-1232202387=:31344-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2362 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69805 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 15:41:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 15:41:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 15:41:40 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2009 15:41:40 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.95] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2009 15:41:40 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:41:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4971E09A.000001.03292@MARINA> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=ZGKze2PX4OLNINASeKPciKivav3Usr6ucale4uQFyone9JGhr_TrhcqB-w X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked But that's the thing isn't it. We weren't talking about elves in Middle Ea= rth, who I would think would leave very differently from how they lived in= Aman. My specific point was on how elves lived in Aman. Now here is the = thing, elvish population grew rapidly in Aman. Just look at how many child= ren each of the princes had. Also remember that in Aman they were at peace= for thousands upon thousands of years. Peace breeds lavish house, ornate = tastes and Aman was teeming with boundless resources. That is not to say t= hat at some point the elvish population wouldn't have to control themselve= s given that space on Aman couldn't have been limitless. But it was a big = place and we know of only three major cities on a continent which was appr= oximately the same size. Also the thing to remember is that we know nothi= ng of Elvish technology (yes I said technology). What we do know does seem= to point to me that elves were advanced. Feanor's lamps, Feanor's palant= irs, Galadriel's mirror... who know, what else they might have had. Now I = don't think they had washing machines or vaccum cleans. Well actually mayb= e vaccum cleans. The reason for this is that washing machine was invented = to save time. I don't think elves would be interested in saving time. They= would I think be more interested in doing some perfectly. Which would poi= nt to vaccum cleaners because blooms just don't clean as well as vaccums. = Now I do think that Feanor had a household that could be described as a R= oyal Court in Aman. Because in Aman he would have the peace, the time and = the resources to have a European style Royal Court. These are the key thin= gs, peace and time. I think my vision of what Tirion looks like would have= to be like an Ancient greek or roman city. Perfectly planned, meticulousl= y built, which housed a number of free dwellings of independed artisans, = traders but would also house large mansions surrounded by extensive garden= s kind of like the great houses of Europe, where lived the Princes and imp= ortant Lords and their retainers. Outside the city would be the farmlands = and orchads and perhaps the estates of some of the lords. At least that's= what I think. Plus we have to remember that Tolkien drew his inspiration = from a number of ancient cultures. Many of whom had very sophisticated liv= es and structures. Plus Aman and Middle Earth are two different places wit= h two different rules. Mostly important of which is that Aman was peaceful= , Middle Earth always at war. Peace and War does breed different things. M= y vision of Aman has always been ornate and opulant. Well that's my vision= anyway :) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "MARINA" wrote: > > I rarely say something but this did wake me up today = and I like to know > other opinions as well. > > As an inspiration Tolkie= n used the Finnish Kalevala. Lucky me, I read this > before I ever stumble= d over Tolkien's work. In 1993 I joined the Tolkien > society shortly afte= r I had finished university (master in ancient history). > So, I don't wan= t to step on anyone's toes since we always must remember that > fanfiction= is an area which is open and free to the inspiration and ideas of > each = single author. I think (my personal opinion again) that we will have to > = look at old, old Europe. The Finnish story, which Tolkien partially took o= ne > to one into the Sil, happens in the high north, in a rural rather pri= mitive > surrounding, the Valar however he seemed to have mixed and mingled= out of > the Bible's 12 arch angels and the Greek Gods. There we go. Let = us mix > Ancient Greek (Alexander, Sokrates, Plato..please forgive us) wit= h the > Finnish National Song..oh boy. > > I just want to add a few thing= s to Tinni's points: > > @ 1. > I am not sure if Feanor had a household th= at could be described like a > European Royal Court". The dusting of shel= ves etc is something I do not see > happening at all just like the "strawb= erry and cream meals" some authors > like to describe (absolut AU). A soci= ety that is based historical where..??? > 10.000 years before our time, 50= 00 years? What I wanted to say is, that a > civilization which is using bo= w and arrow probably does not drink out of > fine finest porcelain. Not be= cause they would have not known how to do it, > it may simply not have bee= n in their interest. They may have used magic and > power for certain craf= ts but I have the odd feeling that the elves of the > Silmarillion were n= ot "Harry Potter and Friends". So, cleaning might have > not been so nece= ssary or useful in a house, cottage, stone structure...due > to the lack o= f furniture :) > > @ 2. > Servants, yes probably but not sure either. Perh= aps Tolkien thought of > servants in a way that they had been in ancient t= imes: a stable boy, a > kitchen maid (I am not talking about the machine p= lease!). Ancient society, > lots of men (elvish ones) little known about t= he females..taking his > inspirations in..then the ladies were more or less= housebound (besides some > that stood out) and knew from cooking, to wool= spinning every chore > necessary to oversee staff and family and of course= help out at any given > time (even Sappho from ancient Greece had to do h= ousehold chores). Elf men > were busy planing war..why does this make me t= hink that nothing has changed? > > @ 3. > Regular people: long houses, op= en fire, fire bowls in the middle of the > structures, sleeping probably a= ll in one large room where also all life > happened, children were born an= d begotten.. > elf lords: I guess not much of difference. Perhaps the lords= had separate > quarters..I like to think at those houses like the many pl= aces Frank King > Charles the Great used to live in or to set it further b= ack in time like a > place Vercingetorix used to be. For the maximum of lu= xury (and that would be > anyway extremely great and would go with Tinni's= idea of servants) let us > think of King Darius' of Persia palace. That w= as definitely amazing. But if > we go further back then Kind Cyrus did not= live in such wealth. So the > Chinese emperors and the Persian or Egyptia= n Courts may be helpful in > research when describing the living quarters.= ..just we shall not forget the > climate..Tolkien may have not thought abo= ut a tropic paradise (sarcastic). > > @ cooking > > I do think like Tinn= i on that. They may have cooked or supervised. > definitely was more on the= ir menu plan than lembas and water :) For the food > we again have to thin= k ancient European due to the inspiration of Tolkien. > That would leave u= s with a variety of "old" but healthy food (no, there is > no fast food ar= ound just in AU :). > > On livestock that was raised in Valinor or perhaps= "overseas" then: cattle > (one per household if even that much, cattle is= expensive to keep and lots > of work) probably more sheep and goats, rabb= its, rabbits, horses...chicken > was introduced to Europe very late (the G= reeks had only heard about it)...so > the practice of cleaning out wild bi= rd nests would be possible. > hunted game: think northern: moose, elf, dee= r, chamois (high alpine)..all > kinds of wild sheep, wolverine...fox (just= remember that latter animals have > been eaten just until the WW2). > Co= oking probably did not happen on a stove but over open fire in a kettle. >= Vegetable: beets, roots of all kinds, chards, mushrooms > fruits: apple, p= ear, apricot...all kinds of berries to be harvested. ..I don > t see orang= es on the regular menu :)..but later in the 3Age (which is not > Sil) Rhun= may have been warm enough for olives, sweet wines,..ocra...though > were = the elves there? > Well, perhaps they feasted like in ancient Rome...this = is going to overthrow > all our ideas again..anyone in the mood for roaste= d peacock tongues and swan > eyes? > > A modern life like we have today..= nope, I can not see it..but who knows what > really was on Tolkien's mind = :) I hope I did not step on anyone's toes. > These were just my few pennie= s I wanted to throw in :) > > Marina > > > > -------Original Message--= ----- > > From: Tinni > Date: 01/17/09 13:15:04 > To: SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styl= es of elves > > I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfiction= of late. It > seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the day= to day > lives of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of transpos= ing > life as we know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impressio= n > that a lot of fanfiction writers were super imposing suburbane houses= > into Aman. Few of the chief things that have struck me, > > 1. House h= old chores: I rather doubt any of the sons of Feanor > cleaned there own r= oom, ever! By cleaning I do mean dusting of > shelves, moping of floors, a= lthough I am sure they did arrange their > own books on the said shelf. >= > 2. Servants: I am sure Feanor had a lot of servants. I get the > feeli= ng that a lot of fanfic writers are uncomfortable with the idea > of serv= ants. Possible because servants do have a negative conotation > to a lot = of people. I assure you servant just means someone whose > duty it is to p= rovide domestic service. There is nothing inheriently > negative about be= ing a servant. > > 3. Size of houses: This is a bit more umm... oblique. T= o begin with I > am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and other would have had multi= -bedroom > mansons with many live-in servants and their families. But I ki= nd of > got the impression the houses of the lords were like the houses o= f > the old lords during the Middle Ages. You know, almost a town within = > castle walls. I got this from Rivendell's description as the Last > Hom= ely Home east of the great sea, which implies that there are more > Homel= y Homes west of the great sea. > > Last point I thought I would mention is= cooking. The question is > would Nardanel and others be cooking on a dail= y basis. This is > complicated. Because 1) Ladies of the houses did used c= ook/closely > supervise cooking in South Asia, but 2) I am not sure of the= status > of cooking in the west. I got the impression from reading Jane = > Austin, the daughter of the house being needed to cook usually > indicat= ed that the family was not quite as well off as they should > be. I am not= sure. > > Anyway, any comments? Am I the only one who thinks that modern = > subarbia is making an appearance in Aman? Do people think life in > Ama= n was like modern suburbia? > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2363 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94915 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 15:52:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 15:52:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.126) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 15:52:23 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2009 15:52:23 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.229] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2009 15:52:23 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:52:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=UVngqgi5OP40Vqc3btqVVn6uth15HyeosT4gU20VXA5l7OGJHHG5l2BY5w X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Well we know elves did hunt and I am sure they did have wilderness skills.= Not doubting that. But that's not the same as picking up a mop and moppin= g the floor. I can't see that! Plus let us remember that Melkor had to tea= ch the elves about war and weapons. They didn't know. My reading is that i= n the time before the Valar came, the elves were not particularly warlike.= They feared the shadow that took them away. So they avoided it. They hunt= ed but they couldn't/didn't really wage war. In fact because I am pedantic= and the webmistress of canonnofanon.net here is the exert from Silmarilli= on, as you can see, no mention of war such fear and caution. I am sure the= first elves were no warriors but more people who fleed and hid. It was on= ly later that they took up arms. In Aman because Melkor poisoned them and = imparted to them the knowledge of war and in Middle-earth because they we= re forced to. At least that's my reading. "And on a time it chanced that O= rom=EB rode eastward in his hunting, and he turned north by the shores of = Helcar and passed under the shadows of the Orocarni, the Mountains of the = East. Then on a sudden Nahar set up a great neighing, and stood still. And= Orom=EB wondered and sat silent, and it seemed to him that in the quiet o= f the land under the stars he heard afar off many voices singing. Thus it = was that the Valar found at last, as it were by chance, those whom they ha= d so long awaited. And Orom=EB looking upon the Elves was filled with wond= er, as though they were beings sudden and marvellous and unforeseen; for s= o it shall ever be with the Valar. From without the World, though all thin= gs may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those = who enter verily into E=E4 each in its time shall be met at unawares as so= mething new and unforetold. In the beginning the Elder Children of Il=FAvat= ar were stronger and greater than they have since become; but not more fai= r, for though the beauty of the Quendi in the days of their youth was beyo= nd all other beauty that Il=FAvatar has caused to be, it has not perished,= but lives in the West, and sorrow and wisdom have enriched it. And Orom= =EB loved the Quendi, and named them in their own tongue Eldar, the peopl= e of the stars; but that name was after borne only by those who followed h= im upon the westward road. Yet many of the Quendi were filled with dread at= his coming; and this was the doing of Melkor. For by after-knowledge the = wise declare that Melkor, ever watchful, was first aware of the awakening = of the Quendi, and sent shadows and evil spirits to spy upon them and wayl= ay them. So it came to pass, some years ere the coming of Orom=EB, that if= any of the Elves strayed far abroad, alone or few together, they would o= ften vanish, and never return; and the Quendi said that the Hunter had cau= ght them, and they were afraid. And indeed the most ancient songs of the E= lves, of which echoes are remembered still in the West, tell of the shadow= -shapes that walked in the hills above Cuivi=E9nen, or would pass suddenly= over the stars; and of the dark Rider upon his wild horse that pursued th= ose that wandered to take them and devour them. Now Melkor greatly hated a= nd feared the riding of Orom=EB, and either he sent indeed his dark servan= ts as riders, or he set lying whispers abroad, for the purpose that the Qu= endi should shun Orom=EB, if ever they should meet. Thus it was that when = Nahar neighed and Orom=EB indeed came among them, some of the Quendi hid t= hemselves, and some fled and were lost. But those that had courage, and st= ayed, perceived swiftly that the Great Rider was no shape out of darkness;= for the light of Aman was in his face, and all the noblest of the Elves w= ere drawn towards it." --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, M= arta wrote: > > > Anyway, any comments? Am I the only o= ne who thinks that modern > > subarbia is making an appearance in Aman? Do = people think life in > > Aman was like modern suburbia? > > > > Hiya Tinni= , > > Well, I don't read enough Silmfic to comment on whether it is a fan= on > that's prevalent, but one thought: I get the impression that elvish > = populations don't grow very quickly. So that would mean there was less > h= uman (elfish, whatever) capital that a king had to spend. I think > there w= ould be *some* servants but maybe not as many as we think of, > say in the = human middle ages where you had a very stratified society > and a good numb= er of people who needed the princes for protection from > enemies so were = willing to do whatever they could to get in good wiht > the person who cou= ld afford to provide for knights. > > Add to that fact that elves necessar= ily have very long memories, and > even the elves born in Aman (Feanor's an= d Maglor's generations) would > be the children or grandchildren of elves = who had been hunted by orcs > and had to pass through the wilderness. I th= ink self-reliance would be > a virtue. Nerdanel may not cook every day, bu= t I'm sure she'd know > *how* to cook, and I imagine her sons would know ho= w to hunt (and > dress what they hunted), on the off-chance that peace didn= 't last. > > I'm not saying elves *have* to behave this way; just saying I= can see > good reasons to downplay the servant issue, rather than authori= al > discomfort with the idea of servants. > > P.S. - Personally, I suspec= t there's also an element of not knowing > how kings and princes fill their= hours. What do the really powerful > men do? I know I don't know what a ki= ng or prince does in that role, > and I can't rely on my readers to be any = more familiar. than I am. > Easier to write what I know. And we're not uniq= ue in this. Look e.g. > at "Star Trek." I've been watching old DS9 episodes= lately. There you > have a station commander, Benjamin Sisko, but a lot o= f the best scenes > are him chatting with his son, cooking for his senior = officers, or > hanging out in the cafeteria - much like anyone would. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2364 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85364 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 15:55:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 15:55:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.236) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 15:55:27 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2009 15:55:27 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2009 15:55:26 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:55:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <614266.31344.qm@web56002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=PRE5BntSpcnLl0BA3JVTgiwGDRp4KMBWqfUwkGUEYSLBE6GMrR2ZRO1IPA X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked You know, I had totally forgotten about the fact that ladies in waiting an= d valets used to be lesser nobility. Should have remembered that grooms of= kings were gentlemen courtiers themselves. --- In SilmarillionWritersGui= ld@yahoogroups.com, Dean Rowley wrote: > > Tinni: > > In= my LOTR and Silmarillion fic I do assume that the=A0 lives of the Elves a= re based on life as it would be lived in the time and area Tolkien studied= as a philologist. That would be North-West Europe including Scandinavia a= round the year 1000. It helps that I am a historian in RL and have studied= this period, but the following web sites are accurate for introductory in= formation. > > Regia Anglorum: www.regia.org=A0This is a British reenactor= group of modern people who recreate the life of Anglo-Saxon England, 850-= 1050. This seems to be Tolkien's main area of study so it is appropriate = for his Legendarium. Do not let the title Reenactor scare you. This group = is so accurate that some people call them 'experimental archaeologists'. >= > Castle Learning Center:=A0www.castles-of-britain.com More general info= rmation about building and living in castles. > > Viking Answer Lady: www.= vikinganswerlady.com Premier site about Scandinavia, 700 - 1100. Also, the= Vikings were not the complete barbarians that the propaganda of the loser= s made them out to be. > > For some specific responses to points below: > = 1. and 2. There was no electric power, steam power, or gas. EVERYTHING was= done by muscle, human or animal. Servants replaced everything from washin= g machines to microwave ovens and back again. An upper class or Noble pers= on, male or female, had better things to do than that kind of manual labor= so they had people to do things for them. This was not considered demeani= ng, the children of lesser Nobility would often serve the higher Nobility = as servants to get the equivalent of a higher education in ruling by hangi= ng around the rulers. > > This also covers cooking. Depending on the year= - less in the late Middle Ages for instance - and the size of the house, = the Lady of the House would supervise the household chores including cooki= ng or supervise the servants-in-chief who ran the household. Nerdanel woul= d give instruction to the Cook. > > 3. Accurate, but each house would inc= lude farmland around it to grow food, cattle for meat, and other necessiti= es. Remember, no super markets or department stores, every thing was home = made. The farms were supervised from the main house, again usually by a st= eward or another manager, not by the Lord. Not so incidentally, the Stewar= d of Gondor was probably the equivalent of the city manager or Prime Mini= ster when Gondor still had Kings and simply took over when the last King d= ied because many important positions like that WERE hereditary in families= . That means I usually thing of a ruler's home in the Blessed Lands or a p= lace like The Last Homely House as large complexes of mansions, farmhouses= , workshops, and perhaps a port on the river surrounded by a small village= . The King, Master, whatever title the ruler claimed, would supervise serv= ants or a chief manager and his wife would supervise the family/servants p= ersonal affairs. The chief 'servants' would > perhaps be relatively impor= tant local leaders who would serve the ruler/kingdom by running some of th= e ruler's business for him. > > In short, life in a Royal house of Aman wa= s nothing like modern life at all, much less modern suburbia. > > Dean Ma= ia of Este (to some) Ranger1 (to others) UberMiddleAgesGeek (to all) > > = > ________________________________ > From: Tinni > = To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 17, = 2009 7:14:54 AM > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of = elves > > > I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfiction of = late. It > seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the day to = day > lives of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of transposing = > life as we know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impression >= that a lot of fanfiction writers were super imposing suburbane houses > = into Aman. Few of the chief things that have struck me, > > 1. House hold = chores: I rather doubt any of the sons of Feanor > cleaned there own room,= ever! By cleaning I do mean dusting of > shelves, moping of floors, altho= ugh I am sure they did arrange their > own books on the said shelf. > > = 2. Servants: I am sure Feanor had a lot of servants. I get the > feeling t= hat a lot of fanfic writers are uncomfortable with the idea > of servants= . Possible because servants do have a negative conotation > to a lot of p= eople. I assure you servant just means someone whose > duty it is to provi= de domestic service. There is nothing inheriently > negative about being = a servant. > > 3. Size of houses: This is a bit more umm... oblique. To be= gin with I > am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and other would have had multi-bed= room > mansons with many live-in servants and their families. But I kind = of > got the impression the houses of the lords were like the houses of >= the old lords during the Middle Ages. You know, almost a town within > c= astle walls. I got this from Rivendell's description as the Last > Homely = Home east of the great sea, which implies that there are more > Homely Ho= mes west of the great sea. > > Last point I thought I would mention is coo= king. The question is > would Nardanel and others be cooking on a daily ba= sis. This is > complicated. Because 1) Ladies of the houses did used cook/= closely > supervise cooking in South Asia, but 2) I am not sure of the sta= tus > of cooking in the west. I got the impression from reading Jane > Au= stin, the daughter of the house being needed to cook usually > indicated t= hat the family was not quite as well off as they should > be. I am not sur= e. > > Anyway, any comments? Am I the only one who thinks that modern > s= ubarbia is making an appearance in Aman? Do people think life in > Aman wa= s like modern suburbia? > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2365 Return-Path: X-Sender: samthase@aon.at X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1006 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 16:06:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 16:06:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO email.aon.at) (195.3.96.113) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 16:06:56 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 29242 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 16:06:55 -0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.0 (2007-05-01) on WARSBL602.highway.telekom.at X-Spam-Level: X-Received: from 62-47-189-151.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO Marina) ([62.47.189.151]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub94.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 17 Jan 2009 16:06:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <49720340.000006.03292@MARINA> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:11:44 +0100 (Westeurop�ische Normalzeit) Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_KBIM12S0000000000000" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (4502089) References: <614266.31344.qm@web56002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> To: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-Priority: 3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "MARINA" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222958806; y=cwmrv6K67lCePZAYwIB41hHsuhvaj1kJXWSz7tOxRkZXFl4hkoFH X-Yahoo-Profile: schnupfi2001 --------------Boundary-00=_KBIM12S0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable @ Dean Maia of Este=20 these are really nice sites you showed us. I must totally agree with you, = my view on them is very close to what you say. Thanks for sharing the sites= . Marina =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Dean Rowley Date: 01/17/09 15:26:33 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves =20 Tinni: =20 In my LOTR and Silmarillion fic I do assume that the lives of the Elves a= re based on life as it would be lived in the time and area Tolkien studied = as a philologist. That would be North-West Europe including Scandinavia aro= und the year 1000. It helps that I am a historian in RL and have studied th= is period, but the following web sites are accurate for introductory inform= ation. =20 Regia Anglorum: www.regia.org This is a British reenactor group of modern = people who recreate the life of Anglo-Saxon England, 850-1050. This seems t= o be Tolkien's main area of study so it is appropriate for his Legendarium.= Do not let the title Reenactor scare you. This group is so accurate that s= ome people call them 'experimental archaeologists'. =20 Castle Learning Center: www.castles-of-britain.com More general informatio= n about building and living in castles. =20 Viking Answer Lady: www.vikinganswerlady.com Premier site about Scandinavi= a, 700 - 1100. Also, the Vikings were not the complete barbarians that the = propaganda of the losers made them out to be. =20 For some specific responses to points below: 1. and 2. There was no electric power, steam power, or gas. EVERYTHING was= done by muscle, human or animal. Servants replaced everything from washing= machines to microwave ovens and back again. An upper class or Noble person= , male or female, had better things to do than that kind of manual labor so= they had people to do things for them. This was not considered demeaning, = the children of lesser Nobility would often serve the higher Nobility as se= rvants to get the equivalent of a higher education in ruling by hanging aro= und the rulers. =20 This also covers cooking. Depending on the year - less in the late Middle = Ages for instance - and the size of the house, the Lady of the House would = supervise the household chores including cooking or supervise the servants-= in-chief who ran the household. Nerdanel would give instruction to the Cook= . =20 3. Accurate, but each house would include farmland around it to grow food,= cattle for meat, and other necessities. Remember, no super markets or depa= rtment stores, every thing was home made. The farms were supervised from th= e main house, again usually by a steward or another manager, not by the Lor= d. Not so incidentally, the Steward of Gondor was probably the equivalent o= f the city manager or Prime Minister when Gondor still had Kings and simply= took over when the last King died because many important positions like th= at WERE hereditary in families. That means I usually thing of a ruler's hom= e in the Blessed Lands or a place like The Last Homely House as large compl= exes of mansions, farmhouses, workshops, and perhaps a port on the river su= rrounded by a small village. The King, Master, whatever title the ruler cla= imed, would supervise servants or a chief manager and his wife would superv= ise the family/servants personal affairs. The chief 'servants' would perhap= s be relatively important local leaders who would serve the ruler/kingdom b= y running some of the ruler's business for him. =20 In short, life in a Royal house of Aman was nothing like modern life at al= l, much less modern suburbia. =20 Dean Maia of Este (to some) Ranger1 (to others) UberMiddleAgesGeek (to all= ) From: Tinni To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:14:54 AM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfiction of late. It=20 seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the day to day=20 lives of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of transposing=20 life as we know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impression=20 that a lot of fanfiction writers were super imposing suburbane houses=20 into Aman. Few of the chief things that have struck me, 1. House hold chores: I rather doubt any of the sons of Feanor=20 cleaned there own room, ever! By cleaning I do mean dusting of=20 shelves, moping of floors, although I am sure they did arrange their=20 own books on the said shelf. 2. Servants: I am sure Feanor had a lot of servants. I get the=20 feeling that a lot of fanfic writers are uncomfortable with the idea=20 of servants. Possible because servants do have a negative conotation=20 to a lot of people. I assure you servant just means someone whose=20 duty it is to provide domestic service. There is nothing inheriently=20 negative about being a servant. 3. Size of houses: This is a bit more umm... oblique. To begin with I=20 am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and other would have had multi-bedroom=20 mansons with many live-in servants and their families. But I kind of=20 got the impression the houses of the lords were like the houses of=20 the old lords during the Middle Ages. You know, almost a town within=20 castle walls. I got this from Rivendell's description as the Last=20 Homely Home east of the great sea, which implies that there are more=20 Homely Homes west of the great sea. Last point I thought I would mention is cooking. The question is=20 would Nardanel and others be cooking on a daily basis. This is=20 complicated. Because 1) Ladies of the houses did used cook/closely=20 supervise cooking in South Asia, but 2) I am not sure of the status=20 of cooking in the west. I got the impression from reading Jane=20 Austin, the daughter of the house being needed to cook usually=20 indicated that the family was not quite as well off as they should=20 be. I am not sure. Anyway, any comments? Am I the only one who thinks that modern=20 subarbia is making an appearance in Aman? Do people think life in=20 Aman was like modern suburbia?=20 =20 --------------Boundary-00=_KBIM12S0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
@
Dean Maia = of Este
 
these are really nice sites you showe= d us. I must totally agree with you, my view on them is very close to what = you say. Thanks for sharing the sites.
Marina
 <= /DIV>
-------Original Message-------
 
Dat= e: 01/17/09 15:26:33
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] = room/house styles of elves
 

Tinni:
 
In my LOTR and S= ilmarillion fic I do assume that the  lives of the Elves are based on = life as it would be lived in the time and area Tolkien studied as a philolo= gist. That would be North-West Europe including Scandinavia around the year= 1000. It helps that I am a historian in RL and have studied this period, b= ut the following web sites are accurate for introductory information.
=
 
Regia Anglorum: w= ww.regia.org This is a British reenactor group of modern people wh= o recreate the life of Anglo-Saxon England, 850-1050. This seems to be Tolk= ien's main area of study so it is appropriate for his Legendarium. Do not l= et the title Reenactor scare you. This group is so accurate that some peopl= e call them 'experimental archaeologists'.
 
Castle Learning Center: www.castles-of-britain.com More general information about = building and living in castles.
 
Viking Answer = Lady: www.vikinganswerlad= y.com Premier site about Scandinavia, 700 - 1100. Also, the Vikings wer= e not the complete barbarians that the propaganda of the losers made them o= ut to be.
 
For some specific responses to point= s below:
1. and 2. There was no electric power, steam power, or = gas. EVERYTHING was done by muscle, human or animal. Servants replaced ever= ything from washing machines to microwave ovens and back again. An upper cl= ass or Noble person, male or female, had better things to do than that kind= of manual labor so they had people to do things for them. This was not con= sidered demeaning, the children of lesser Nobility would often serve the hi= gher Nobility as servants to get the equivalent of a higher education in ru= ling by hanging around the rulers.
 
This also c= overs cooking. Depending on the year - less in the late Middle Ages for ins= tance - and the size of the house, the Lady of the House would supervise th= e household chores including cooking or supervise the servants-in-chie= f who ran the household. Nerdanel would give instruction to the Cook.
=
 
3. Accurate, but each house would include farmland = around it to grow food, cattle for meat, and other necessities. Remember, n= o super markets or department stores, every thing was home made. The farms = were supervised from the main house, again usually by a steward or another = manager, not by the Lord. Not so incidentally, the Steward of Gondor was pr= obably the equivalent of the city manager or Prime Minister when Gondor sti= ll had Kings and simply took over when the last King died because many impo= rtant positions like that WERE hereditary in families. That means I usually= thing of a ruler's home in the Blessed Lands or a place like The Last Home= ly House as large complexes of mansions, farmhouses, workshops, and perhaps= a port on the river surrounded by a small village. The King, Master, whate= ver title the ruler claimed, would supervise servants or a chief manager an= d his wife would supervise the family/servants personal affairs. The chief = 'servants' would perhaps be relatively important local leaders who would se= rve the ruler/kingdom by running some of the ruler's business for him.
 
In short, life in a Royal house of Aman was nothin= g like modern life at all, much less modern suburbia.
 
Dean Maia of Este (to some) Ranger1 (to others) UberMiddleAgesGeek = (to all)
From: Tinni yahoo.com>
To: SilmarillionWritersG= uild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:14:54 AM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house s= tyles of elves

I have been noticing = something in Silmarillion fanfiction of late. It
seems to me that fanfi= c writers trying to describe the day to day
lives of elves in Aman seem= to fall into the pitfall of transposing
life as we know it today to Am= an. I.e. I kept getting the impression
that a lot of fanfiction writers= were super imposing suburbane houses
into Aman. Few of the chief thing= s that have struck me,

1. House hold chores: I rather doubt any of t= he sons of Feanor
cleaned there own room, ever! By cleaning I do mean d= usting of
shelves, moping of floors, although I am sure they did arrang= e their
own books on the said shelf.

2. Servants: I am sure Fean= or had a lot of servants. I get the
feeling that a lot of fanfic writer= s are uncomfortable with the idea
of servants. Possible because servant= s do have a negative conotation
to a lot of people. I assure you servan= t just means someone whose
duty it is to provide domestic service. Ther= e is nothing inheriently
negative about being a servant.

3. Size= of houses: This is a bit more umm... oblique. To begin with I
am sure = Feanor, Fingolfin and other would have had multi-bedroom
mansons with m= any live-in servants and their families. But I kind of
got the impressi= on the houses of the lords were like the houses of
the old lords during= the Middle Ages. You know, almost a town within
castle walls. I got th= is from Rivendell's description as the Last
Homely Home east of the gre= at sea, which implies that there are more
Homely Homes west of the grea= t sea.

Last point I thought I would mention is cooking. The question= is
would Nardanel and others be cooking on a daily basis. This is
= complicated. Because 1) Ladies of the houses did used cook/closely
supe= rvise cooking in South Asia, but 2) I am not sure of the status
of cook= ing in the west. I got the impression from reading Jane
Austin, the dau= ghter of the house being needed to cook usually
indicated that the fami= ly was not quite as well off as they should
be. I am not sure.

A= nyway, any comments? Am I the only one who thinks that modern
subarbia = is making an appearance in Aman? Do people think life in
Aman was like = modern suburbia?


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<= /TR>
--------------Boundary-00=_KBIM12S0000000000000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2366 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37028 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 16:42:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 16:42:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 16:42:08 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.cf6.49c49f0c (39953) for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:42:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:42:03 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232210523" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=RyYrA_onfbYwXepa9N6duv-SRy9Zl0OYWzYTyQvsmc6PmNWQIoZW X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232210523 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit : That would be North-West Europe including Scandinavia around the year 1000. It helps that I am a historian in RL and have studied this period, but the following web sites are accurate for introductory information. I don't imagine them that way, especially not in Aman. I know someone else an anthropologist who imagines the elves in M-e as living not unlike stone age Scotland. She ripped me a new one for having cheese in Beleriand in the early First Age--just did not fit to her at all. I am busy today and getting over being really sick, so I really cannot participate at length in this discussion, but I base my stories not on Tolkien's European past but on clues to characterization that I draw from the Silmarillion. So I picture Feanor as unlikely to have a lot of house servants around and wanting his children to grown up knowing how things work and how they are done. A bit of a rebel in that regard. I say knock yourself out and imagine what you like. I have always found these kinds of discussions less than kind to my imagination. I use canon, which I study extensively for its own right, but use as a jumping off point for my own fiction and not a straight jacket. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) -------------------------------1232210523 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
:
That would be North-West Europe includ= ing Scandinavia around the year 1000. It helps that I am a historian in = RL and have studied this period, but the following web sites are accurat= e for introductory information.
I don't imagine them that way, especially not in Aman. I know someone else= an anthropologist who imagines the elves in M-e as living not unlike ston= e age Scotland. She ripped me a new one for having cheese in Beleriand in = the early First Age--just did not fit to her at all.
 
I am busy today and getting over being really sick, so I really ca= nnot participate at length in this discussion, but I base my stories not o= n Tolkien's European past but on clues to characterization that I draw fro= m the Silmarillion. So I picture Feanor as unlikely to have a lot of house= servants around and wanting his children to grown up knowing how things w= ork and how they are done. A bit of a rebel in that regard.
&n= bsp;
I say knock yourself out and imagine what you like.
I have always found these kinds of discussions less than kind to my = imagination. I use canon, which I study extensively for its own right, but= use as a jumping off point for my own fiction and not a straight ja= cket.



A Good Credit Score is 700= or Above. See yours in just 2 easy s= teps!
-------------------------------1232210523-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2367 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95461 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 16:47:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 16:47:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s1.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.139) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 16:47:23 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W48 ([65.55.34.137]) by col0-omc3-s1.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:47:23 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_72f475c4-151d-4ca4-a46b-a5f05fe1f339_" To: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:47:23 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2009 16:47:23.0996 (UTC) FILETIME=[45B119C0:01C978C3] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=Zq6qUPctjQn7pliKSFmNRPU8_xYqr9HFkEtjTHpt3A45ikLj4YANKQ X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_72f475c4-151d-4ca4-a46b-a5f05fe1f339_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To be fair, I also agree with using references to Medieval Europe to fil= l in the gaps, and sometimes find particularly 'modern' interpretations to = be a bit jarring. But, fanfic being fanfic, people write what they know. = Most of us are not in any position to describe a society so completely alie= n from our daily lives. It is appreciated when the author makes that effor= t, though, to really think about what life might have been like for these p= eople. I agree that a household of a lord (such as Feanor) would include s= ervants who were not his close blood relatives. I do not generally thin= k of the Noldor as having a completely stratified society, though there is = some question of class. Feanor, the heir of the king, works as a smith (a = position that was no doubt held in high regard, but still). He made the he= lms and swords his sons wore as well as fancy stuff like the palantiri. So= , I would not look to Jane Austen for a view of 'high society' elves - ther= e are politics, certainly, but nothing quite so...artificial...going on in = Aman (imo). No idea that true gentlemen do not work or anything like that.= Galadriel certainly had maidens in Lothlorien (who could be seen as serva= nts), but it is suggested that both she and they took part in weaving the c= loaks she gave to the Fellowship. So, she doesn't merely 'oversee' - some = work, she takes part in. Still, the elf who explains all of this could be = labelled a servant, perhaps. As for their society, "Laws and Customs of t= he Eldar" comes to mind as a good resource for a glimpse of what might be u= nique about elven society. For one thing, it was the men, not the women, w= ho cooked. (Though the women were in charge of baking bread.) So, rather = than Nerdanel having the burden of making dinner for her family every night= , she had 7 sons and a husband to take care of that, allowing her to devote= some time to making amazingly life-like statues. Gender roles do not seem= to strictly reflect human society, because the difference (physically) bet= ween male and female elves was rather slight (before childbirth, at any rat= e). Women hunting and men acting as healers was normal enough. That is no= t to say they didn't have traditional gender roles - just that they might n= ot match those of the Vikings. Elrond's House at Rivendell is also a su= ggestion of what type of culture may have been passed on from Aman. The fe= ast Frodo attends, with the head table and others, does suggest something o= ther than a 'family' atmosphere - it is a household, with many people, many= rooms, etc. There are further hints in the Silmarillion - the Noldor like= d to build in stone, and on hilltops, so we get the fortress of Himring, bu= t also the beautiful city of Gondolin. Tirion and Gondolin are compared to= each other, so some of the culture of Gondolin might also reflect Tirion (= but it may not). Gondolin has its Houses, with a Lord of each, and livery = denoting who is a member of the House (not necessarily a question of blood)= . I think we have only broad brushstrokes of what Aman was like, so eac= h fanfic author has the freedom to fill in as they like. It is the author'= s job to convince the reader of the situation or scenario portrayed. That = being said, I do appreciate the effort many authors put in to realizing the= world of Aman from the bare-bones glimpses Tolkien gave us. Ivanneth's "T= he Follower" is a good example of a beautifully detailed portrayal that cou= ld never be mistaken for modern day suburbia; but I have read others that a= re also very good. MithLuin http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_T= AGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 --_72f475c4-151d-4ca4-a46b-a5f05fe1f339_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
To be fair, I also agree with using references to M= edieval Europe to fill in the gaps, and sometimes find particularly 'modern= ' interpretations to be a bit jarring.  But, fanfic being fanfic, peop= le write what they know.  Most of us are not in any position to descri= be a society so completely alien from our daily lives.  It is apprecia= ted when the author makes that effort, though, to really think about what l= ife might have been like for these people.  I agree that a household o= f a lord (such as Feanor) would include servants who were not his close blo= od relatives. 
 
I do not generally think of the Noldor = as having a completely stratified society, though there is some question of= class.  Feanor, the heir of the king, works as a smith (a position th= at was no doubt held in high regard, but still).  He made the helms an= d swords his sons wore as well as fancy stuff like the palantiri.  So,= I would not look to Jane Austen for a view of 'high society' elves - there= are politics, certainly, but nothing quite so...artificial...going on in A= man (imo).  No idea that true gentlemen do not work or anything like t= hat.  Galadriel certainly had maidens in Lothlorien (who could be seen= as servants), but it is suggested that both she and they took pa= rt in weaving the cloaks she gave to the Fellowship.  So, she doesn't = merely 'oversee' - some work, she takes part in.  Still, the elf who e= xplains all of this could be labelled a servant, perhaps.
 
As= for their society, "Laws and Customs of the Eldar" comes to mind as a good= resource for a glimpse of what might be unique about elven society.  = For one thing, it was the men, not the women, who cooked.  (Though the= women were in charge of baking bread.)  So, rather than Nerdanel havi= ng the burden of making dinner for her family every night, she had 7 sons a= nd a husband to take care of that, allowing her to devote some time to maki= ng amazingly life-like statues.  Gender roles do not seem to strictly = reflect human society, because the difference (physically) between male and= female elves was rather slight (before childbirth, at any rate).  Wom= en hunting and men acting as healers was normal enough.  That is not t= o say they didn't have traditional gender roles - just that they might not = match those of the Vikings. 
 
Elrond's House at Rivende= ll is also a suggestion of what type of culture may have been passed on fro= m Aman.  The feast Frodo attends, with the head table and others, does= suggest something other than a 'family' atmosphere - it is a household, wi= th many people, many rooms, etc.  There are further hints in the Silma= rillion - the Noldor liked to build in stone, and on hilltops, so we get th= e fortress of Himring, but also the beautiful city of Gondolin.  Tirio= n and Gondolin are compared to each other, so some of the culture of Gondol= in might also reflect Tirion (but it may not).  Gondolin has its House= s, with a Lord of each, and livery denoting who is a member of the House (n= ot necessarily a question of blood). 
 
I think we have = only broad brushstrokes of what Aman was like, so each fanfic author has th= e freedom to fill in as they like.  It is the author's job to convince= the reader of the situation or scenario portrayed.  That being said, = I do appreciate the effort many authors put in to realizing the world of Am= an from the bare-bones glimpses Tolkien gave us.  Ivanneth's "The Foll= ower" is a good example of a beautifully detailed portrayal that could neve= r be mistaken for modern day suburbia; but I have read others that are also= very good. 
 
MithLuin


-* -- |> |_ /|\ |= \| -- *-
** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* **
* *

God saw that the= light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness. Genesis= 1:4

Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar= Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello.






=
> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
> From: sharmin= choudhury@yahoo.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:14:54 +0000
> S= ubject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves
>
&= gt; I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfiction of late. It <= BR>> seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the day to day <= BR>> lives of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of transposing=
> life as we know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impress= ion
> that a lot of fanfiction writers were super imposing suburbane= houses
> into Aman. Few of the chief things that have struck me,>
> 1. House hold chores: I rather doubt any of the sons of Fean= or
> cleaned there own room, ever! By cleaning I do mean dusting of =
> shelves, moping of floors, although I am sure they did arrange the= ir
> own books on the said shelf.
>
> 2. Servants: I am= sure Feanor had a lot of servants. I get the
> feeling that a lot o= f fanfic writers are uncomfortable with the idea
> of servants. Poss= ible because servants do have a negative conotation
> to a lot of pe= ople. I assure you servant just means someone whose
> duty it is to = provide domestic service. There is nothing inheriently
> negative ab= out being a servant.
>
> 3. Size of houses: This is a bit more= umm... oblique. To begin with I
> am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and oth= er would have had multi-bedroom
> mansons with many live-in servants= and their families. But I kind of
> got the impression the houses o= f the lords were like the houses of
> the old lords during the Middl= e Ages. You know, almost a town within
> castle walls. I got this fr= om Rivendell's description as the Last
> Homely Home east of the gre= at sea, which implies that there are more
> Homely Homes west of the= great sea.
>
>
> Last point I thought I would mention = is cooking. The question is
> would Nardanel and others be cooking o= n a daily basis. This is
> complicated. Because 1) Ladies of the hou= ses did used cook/closely
> supervise cooking in South Asia, but 2) = I am not sure of the status
> of cooking in the west. I got the impr= ession from reading Jane
> Austin, the daughter of the house being n= eeded to cook usually
> indicated that the family was not quite as w= ell off as they should
> be. I am not sure.
>
> Anyway,= any comments? Am I the only one who thinks that modern
> subarbia i= s making an appearance in Aman? Do people think life in
> Aman was l= ike modern suburbia?
>
>
> ---------------------------= ---------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> T= o visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group= /SilmarillionWritersGuild/
>
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>


Windows Live= =99: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.<= /body> --_72f475c4-151d-4ca4-a46b-a5f05fe1f339_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2368 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26773 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 19:33:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 19:33:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.155) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 19:33:24 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 3so927065yxi.68 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:33:24 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.20.2 with SMTP id d2mr451196ibb.37.1232220803885; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:33:23 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.19.205 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:33:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:33:23 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4650_11699380.1232220803876" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mpV8YK8kG2isVKXPXfQrmqjoOa952fFeOn-9DQQpHDtuKK4wo73V X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_4650_11699380.1232220803876-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2369 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68575 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 19:41:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 19:41:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 19:41:36 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4CEC865F03 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:41:35 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:41:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:41:27 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <249346007.20090117204127@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <4971E09A.000001.03292@MARINA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=Fm_Hz9ipo1nQbassQ1yatLD-owhWQTvvORTQnlxCnFK5IX3SXC0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Hello everybody :) Great knowledge of Middle-Ages life, I'm glad to learn more of it, but that's all about our Earth history, not of Tolkien's Neverland for Arda is not our Earth of that period. Well some people keep telling that indeed Arda is Earth, but the events of the I or III Age would rather happen before the Ice Age and our known history, somewhere in our mythical past, I guess. Anyway, believes aside let's focus on Tolkien's texts. As Tinni said Tolkien was inspired by many other societies and cultures than of the North-West Europe and he mixed them a lot, for example the cultures of peoples of the III Age in LotR although living in the same time are totally different. MithLuin and Tinni gave great examples from the written texts of what we do know about Aman. To me it implies nothing like a hut with the whole huge family cradling around a fireplace, with many peoples sleeping in one bed and children being begotten on eyes of other children, parents, grand parents and various relatives. I'm not a historian, my description might be off, but there is no way I could see Elven culture being as primitive. To give another example - "Tristan and Isolde" where the king sleeps in one chamber with his court knights and maidens (and still Tristan tries to have a "personal" moment with Isolde O_o) Something could be similar to Vikings, though - both Viking women and women of the Eldar would arm and fight as men to defend their homes if that was necessary. Even in Middle-Earth Eldarin lifestyle and households would not be that primitive as of Saxons or other examples mentioned, even the society of Gondor was more advanced, why would we think the Eldar who were teachers to the human race would live in more primitive way? I agree with Tinni - their technology was more advanced, also they had much more time to build and decorate their households, fortresses and places. If they ever lived in groups in primitive wooden buildings was temporarily in time when Noldor lived at two banks of the Lake Mithrim. We might rather compare - as it seems - the less advanced Rohirrim culture to the Saxons. But you do not expect "a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek and rats roll on the floor with the dogs" as Saruman kindly described Rohirrim's households in LotR? (Might be not exact quote, for I took it from the movie dialogs on-line, I do not have English LotR). Society over the banks of Cuivienen? In my vision hunters, no lords nor kings, doing all the job together equally and exchanging the wealths together - fish for a hunted animal, forest fruits for clothes etc. (Lack of real variety of animals and plants in darkness under the Stars aside ;) ) Lords and kings come with Valinor or with Melian for the Sindar, not earlier. And they evolve differently in Aman and in Beleriand, out of different conditions. Lords and kings titles were based on respect and admiration for their brave deeds and other qualities they presented during the journey to Aman and it's not a coincidence that bravest of the hunters became ambassadors in Aman and later kings of the Eldar. BTW, I thought I am confabulating but I see I was right - men of the Eldar were cooking :D Mentioned "The Follower" by Ivanneth is an ideal description for me - ceremonial world only where it is necessary, egalitarian society everywhere else, real people not actors of artificial court ceremonies. There are no masters and servants, but a society of free, equal and talented beings who do in their lives what they desire - today a hunter, tomorrow a carpenter, every day a poet if heart says so, with a whole eternity, as long as Arda exists to master whatever they wish. Living together around lords and participating in jobs there - of course, for they would help each other and lived together in communities of alike interests, minds and views on world. But who would fell so low to use others to do their own job? Why would I have someone to wash my dirty clothes if I've got my own hands? Mop in Maedhros's hands? Why not? ;) Beleriand is a different story, Maedhros would be too busy training soldiers and planing his union to take care of house cleaning and laundry, but he would still feast with his all people and help in common works when necessary, especially in siege of Agnband times. Kings, lords - just titles, Eldar are equal in Aman. There is no real land to govern and defend, for there are no enemies. In truth the land belongs to the Valar or in truth Iluvatar, not the Eldar, they are just beings invited to live there and feel like home. So yes the king would wear a crown and have a palace, built by Noldor for the Noldor not for the king alone. There would be other palaces or mansions around, or shepherds huts - to each their own, no one is forced to live in the city if they prefer wilderness. Nerdanel and F�anor preferred to wander in their early days and enjoyed a simple life, then F�anor and sons kept doing it digging for resources in the most distant parts of Aman (no servants bearing their stuff mentioned). No money (no need for them, a word for money in Quenya proves nothing) nor hungry people, for there will always be someone who will feed a hungry traveller. Fruits are growing on trees out of will of Yavanna, as the other plants do and weather is always favorable. The only job is to gather everyone who can go and pick up the fruits in a right time, then prepare them and enjoy the celebrations together. No cattle farms in Aman, what a weird idea. Every animal which was ever living on Arda lives in Aman and wanders there freely, both calm and dangerous alike. To have it on meal means to hunt it, which as it looks like was common form of entertainment in Aman. Realms where nothing dies, I would be suspicious towards meals prepared of those hunted animals ;) Regarding climate - I bet it was up to inhabitants and gave in result rather warm weather, a bit cooler in mountains. Haven't checked the descriptions in books, but I bet the land was totally under control of the Valar and still serves their needs and needs of it's inhabitants. Well, that's my incoherent vision based on descriptions of the Blessed Realms and my own expectations. Tinni: T> That is not to say that at some point the elvish population T> wouldn't have to control themselves given that space on T> Aman couldn't have been limitless. But it was a big place and we know T> of only three major cities on a continent which was approximately the T> same size. After Aman went out of Arda I guess it's shape adjusted to the inhabitants needs. Clear speculations on my side. T> I think my vision of what Tirion looks like would have to be like an T> Ancient greek or roman city. Perfectly planned, meticulously built, T> which housed a number of free dwellings of independed artisans, T> traders but would also house large mansions surrounded by extensive T> gardens kind of like the great houses of Europe, where lived the T> Princes and important Lords and their retainers. Outside the city T> would be the farmlands and orchads and perhaps the estates of some of T> the lords. Charming vision, IMO very close to what books picture. T> Plus Aman and Middle Earth are two different places with two different rules. Mostly T> important of which is that Aman was peaceful, Middle Earth always at T> war. Peace and War does breed different things. Peace, War, decay, death and time measure. Aman is land immortal under inspection and care of the Valar, while life in Beleriand means lack of their counsel and care, all depends totally on the Eldar, their own knowledge and technology, limited compared with Valar but still more advanced to what the Secondborn present. Land under inspection of the Fallen Vala, I've forgotten, he dictates conditions in Beleriand. Land with death, disease and decay of all alive beings surrounding the Eldar. All of it would give a different society in Beleriand, but still keeping the greatest values in mind - freedom and creativity. In truth we might treat Noldor in Beleriand as extended in time war expedition. MithLuin: � MP> I do not generally think of the Noldor as having a MP> completely stratified society, though there is some question of MP> class.� Feanor, the heir of the king, works as a smith (a position MP> that was no doubt held in high regard, but still).� He made the MP> helms and swords his sons wore as well as fancy stuff like the MP> palantiri.� Because as I see it creativity and being creative were the most important activities in Aman, they didn't have struggle to survive so could focus on bright sides of life. MP> Elrond's House at Rivendell is also a suggestion of what MP> type of culture may have been passed on from Aman.� I bet what elves households and courts looked like changed a lot during ages from the freedom of Aman into more stratified society, still I see no one treated as of lesser house, birth. Elrond's household would be heritage of what Elrond have learned from Maedhros and Maglor, what he was taught by Cirdan and Gil-galad and what later he took from the Sindar, including heritage of Doriath society which I see as different from the kingdoms of Noldor. MP> Tirion and Gondolin are compared to each other, so some of the culture of Gondolin might also reflect MP> Tirion (but it may not). There were also many Sindar in Gondolin, if I remember well - from the Mithrim area - who must have add a lot to the culture of that city. MP> I think we have only broad brushstrokes of what Aman was MP> like, so each fanfic author has the freedom to fill in as they MP> like.� It is the author's job to convince the reader of the MP> situation or scenario portrayed.� Exactly, so Oshun do not worry if what I said or others is in conflict with your vision :) In the end there is one charming vision of Noldorin expansion in Beleriand, with very rough and hierarchical society, including inferior Sindarin servants of which I enjoy to read :D It doesn't match my idea at all, but is more than convincing. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2370 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55908 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 20:00:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 20:00:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.29) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 20:00:13 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 31so818171yxl.81 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:00:12 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.32.70 with SMTP id b6mr456333ibd.12.1232222412445; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:00:12 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.19.205 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:00:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:00:12 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4807_16156187.1232222412437" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Weapons and War (was: room/house styles of elves) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=QvKDoFrWBGKVCUiM3C1PWVa5Yl-Z3e1e7PtZyH2H0rEKhRwwB4Ym X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_4807_16156187.1232222412437-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2371 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49931 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 20:02:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 20:02:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 20:02:47 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.cdc.41b520ee (39953) for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:02:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:02:42 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232222562" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=QXbzmff_fGo1qJjjVZKVDdLmChxXpgajERlt5e8pA7-s3_eAplMD X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232222562 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very interesting points, Sirelle. I especially appreciate the points on creativity, also the egalitarian nature of elven societies and the contrast between Middle-earth and Aman. so Oshun do not worry if what I said or others is in conflict with your vision :) Not at all, Sirielle. I can really appreciate others' views and visions and enjoy them. I would guess if I had to characterize the settings and environment in my own stories, I would say there is a combination of respect for canon details of geography and language, timelines and final outcomes, but extrapolated upon by my own desire to develop characters within that format and pursue my own imaginative structure. I adore the original, but am not afraid to go in other directions. I hope to be internally consistent and tell a good story. That is the bottom line for me. I very much appreciated Dawn's previous posting where she used concrete examples from her own canon to explain her choices. Her world may or may not be what various readers may think of a strict interpretation of Tolkien's world, but it certainly reflects her canon knowledge and the thought she has put into it. That is also what makes fanfiction interesting to me. It does not have to reflect my understanding or one which Tolkien himself would rubberstamp with approval, but again, be internally consistent, entertaining and share a love of the original. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) -------------------------------1232222562 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Very intere= sting points, Sirelle. I especially appreciate the points on creativity, a= lso the egalitarian nature of elven societies and the contrast between Mid= dle-earth and Aman.
so Oshun do not wo= rry if what I said or others is in
conflict with your vision :)
Not at all, Sirielle. I can really a= ppreciate others' views and visions and enjoy them.
 
I would guess if I had to characterize the settings and environ= ment in my own stories, I would say there is a combination of respect for = canon details of geography and language, timelines and final outcomes, but= extrapolated upon by my own desire to develop characters within that form= at and pursue my own imaginative structure. I adore the original, but am n= ot afraid to go in other directions. I hope to be internally consistent an= d tell a good story. That is the bottom line for me.
 
I very much appreciated Dawn's previous posting where she used con= crete examples from her own canon to explain her choices. Her world may or= may not be what various readers may think of a strict interpretation of T= olkien's world, but it certainly reflects her canon knowledge and the thou= ght she has put into it. That is also what makes fanfiction interesting to= me. It does not have to reflect my understanding or one which Tolkien him= self would rubberstamp with approval, but again, be internally consist= ent, entertaining and share a love of the original.

=

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! -------------------------------1232222562-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2372 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46339 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 20:09:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 20:09:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.154) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 20:09:59 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so870026ywm.22 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:09:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.19.70 with SMTP id z6mr455234iba.32.1232222998258; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:09:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.19.205 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:09:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:09:58 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4939_22620994.1232222998252" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xGfL6l2paLalXVAPwfzwTvx9TPaT9QUBiSgecMGT056I5dl4-CPw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_4939_22620994.1232222998252-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2373 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9051 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 20:11:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 20:11:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 20:11:57 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B25A7865F03 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:11:50 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:11:47 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:11:47 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <365406197.20090117211147@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Weapons and War (was: room/house styles of elves) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=b4TqioR9ntX2mq2KwallwiHzxRSIcYrhR8bK5LUv_xnHiOWVKCg X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, nice post on Aman, wording much better some things I wanted to say. I typed mine too long ;) DF> However, I don't think this precludes knowledge of weapons. As you DF> note, the Elves hunted. In order to do so, they had weapons before DF> meeting Melkor. (...) DF> In my stories, the Elves at Cuivienen--the Noldor DF> especially--had even discovered a rudimentary knowledge of metals DF> before Orome arrived. I remember that it was Orom� who brought to the Eldar spears so they could defend better. I'm sure they had wooden weapons, perhaps with stones, but I never thought of metal. I always assumed the spears from Orom� were metal ones. Wooden weapons only fit well with Teleri of Alqualond� using only wooden bows (although why not spears then?) and the same goes for the Laiquendi. Thingol gets axes and chain miles from the dwarves, I guess they forged swords on their own or instructed by Melian. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2374 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36473 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 20:17:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 20:17:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.241) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 20:17:00 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b38so106071ana.13 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:16:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.17.11 with SMTP id q11mr455901iba.8.1232223419360; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:16:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.19.205 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:16:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:16:59 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5014_3643882.1232223419353" References: <4971E09A.000001.03292@MARINA> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=BVlihvem4ewx-SNzRV_cPBLPgbGuZ30Kw45Mex9F0zKYIMno_Toh X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_5014_3643882.1232223419353-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2375 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67373 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 20:29:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 20:29:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.29) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 20:29:45 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 2so906801ywt.15 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:29:44 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.19.70 with SMTP id z6mr456026iba.29.1232224184765; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:29:44 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.19.205 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:29:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:29:44 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <365406197.20090117211147@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5057_9899142.1232224184759" References: <365406197.20090117211147@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Weapons and War (was: room/house styles of elves) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=vuxOsGktQM5wJlqdH1A1vL1SbeTJpqMKkXRE3laofjstlKjBYSEf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_5057_9899142.1232224184759-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2376 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88255 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 21:24:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 21:24:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.179) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 21:24:25 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id v27so601896ele.17 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:24:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.151.44.15 with SMTP id w15mr3012841ybj.51.1232227464347; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:24:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:24:24 -0800 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151750dbe24b82660460b450b2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=TkGX68UhU_aOMwVevDRqsreGarov7qqRXiwd8_6cmDYt X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --00151750dbe24b82660460b450b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just want to comment. Why would there be a serving class in paradise as A= man was supposed to be? That just strikes me as wrong or not a given. Your= commentary implies that some elves would serve others. Why would that be i= n a land like that? I think each family would be more self sufficient than= that and the serving class would be more of a middle earth thing. Just an= idea. Tolkien made no mention of it at all so there is a lot of leeway the= re. I think there is room for alternate views on this point. Jane -phyncke= On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 4:14 AM, Tinni wrote= : > I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfiction of late. I= t > seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the day to day > liv= es of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of transposing > life as = we know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impression > that a lot o= f fanfiction writers were super imposing suburbane houses > into Aman. Few = of the chief things that have struck me, > > 1. House hold chores: I rather= doubt any of the sons of Feanor > cleaned there own room, ever! By cleanin= g I do mean dusting of > shelves, moping of floors, although I am sure they= did arrange their > own books on the said shelf. > > 2. Servants: I am sur= e Feanor had a lot of servants. I get the > feeling that a lot of fanfic wr= iters are uncomfortable with the idea > of servants. Possible because serva= nts do have a negative conotation > to a lot of people. I assure you servan= t just means someone whose > duty it is to provide domestic service. There = is nothing inheriently > negative about being a servant. > > 3. Size of hou= ses: This is a bit more umm... oblique. To begin with I > am sure Feanor, F= ingolfin and other would have had multi-bedroom > mansons with many live-in= servants and their families. But I kind of > got the impression the houses= of the lords were like the houses of > the old lords during the Middle Age= s. You know, almost a town within > castle walls. I got this from Rivendell= 's description as the Last > Homely Home east of the great sea, which impli= es that there are more > Homely Homes west of the great sea. > > Last point= I thought I would mention is cooking. The question is > would Nardanel and= others be cooking on a daily basis. This is > complicated. Because 1) Ladi= es of the houses did used cook/closely > supervise cooking in South Asia, b= ut 2) I am not sure of the status > of cooking in the west. I got the impre= ssion from reading Jane > Austin, the daughter of the house being needed to= cook usually > indicated that the family was not quite as well off as they= should > be. I am not sure. > > Anyway, any comments? Am I the only one wh= o thinks that modern > subarbia is making an appearance in Aman? Do people = think life in > Aman was like modern suburbia? > > > --00151750dbe24b82660460b450b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just want to comment. Why would there be a serving class in paradise as A= man was supposed to be? That just strikes me as wrong or not a given. = Your commentary implies that some elves would serve others. Why would that= be in a land like that?

I think each family would be more self s= ufficient than that and the serving class would be more of a middle earth t= hing.

Just an idea. Tolkien made no mention of it at all so there i= s a lot of leeway there. I think there is room for alternate views on this = point.

Jane -phyncke

On Sat, Jan= 17, 2009 at 4:14 AM, Tinni <sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com> wrote:

I have been noticing something in Silm= arillion fanfiction of late. It
seems to me that fanfic writers trying= to describe the day to day
lives of elves in Aman seem to fall into t= he pitfall of transposing
life as we know it today to Aman. I.e. I kep= t getting the impression
that a lot of fanfiction writers were super i= mposing suburbane houses
into Aman. Few of the chief things that have = struck me,

1. House hold chores: I rather doubt any of the sons of= Feanor
cleaned there own room, ever! By cleaning I do mean dusting of=
shelves, moping of floors, although I am sure they did arrange their =
own books on the said shelf.

2. Servants: I am sure Feanor ha= d a lot of servants. I get the
feeling that a lot of fanfic writers ar= e uncomfortable with the idea
of servants. Possible because servants d= o have a negative conotation
to a lot of people. I assure you servant = just means someone whose
duty it is to provide domestic service. There= is nothing inheriently
negative about being a servant.

3. Si= ze of houses: This is a bit more umm... oblique. To begin with I
am su= re Feanor, Fingolfin and other would have had multi-bedroom
mansons wi= th many live-in servants and their families. But I kind of
got the imp= ression the houses of the lords were like the houses of
the old lords = during the Middle Ages. You know, almost a town within
castle walls. I= got this from Rivendell's description as the Last
Homely Home eas= t of the great sea, which implies that there are more
Homely Homes wes= t of the great sea.

Last point I thought I would mention is cookin= g. The question is
would Nardanel and others be cooking on a daily bas= is. This is
complicated. Because 1) Ladies of the houses did used cook= /closely
supervise cooking in South Asia, but 2) I am not sure of the = status
of cooking in the west. I got the impression from reading Jane =
Austin, the daughter of the house being needed to cook usually
in= dicated that the family was not quite as well off as they should
be. I= am not sure.

Anyway, any comments? Am I the only one who thinks t= hat modern
subarbia is making an appearance in Aman? Do people think l= ife in
Aman was like modern suburbia?

=
=

--00151750dbe24b82660460b450b2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2377 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12744 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 22:23:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 22:23:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 22:23:42 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2009 22:23:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.83] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2009 22:23:41 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:23:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=z-k0XQCJvao-0eFDZ7wAku_v04Zl1pHDx6HcIPbqR13hM3BUmO3nWyg X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Jane Fink w= rote: > > I just want to comment. Why would there be a serving class in > = paradise as Aman was supposed to be? That just strikes me as wrong > or no= t a given. Your commentary implies that some elves would > serve others. = Why would that be in a land like that? > > I think each family would be mo= re self sufficient than that and the > serving class would be more of a mi= ddle earth thing. > > Just an idea. Tolkien made no mention of it at all s= o there is a > lot of leeway there. I think there is room for alternate vi= ews on > this point. > Yes, he did. In the Silm it is said that Celegorm = had servants (who left Dior's sons in the woods during the aftermath of the= 2nd kinslaying), make of that as you will. ;) I have no idea what kind of = lordlings that would be, if they were of lesser nobility in a way, or that = they did bring in enough of valuables to justify to carry a banner close to= the leader they choose to follow (bannerlords/bannerheren is common practi= ce in Dutch Medieval times (beyond 10th age up 'til 14th age, give or take)= , where with enough cash you can get yourself a title of somesorts, after = all waging war costs a lot). Oh and if I remember it correctly, E=F6l had s= ervants too. My mind is fuzzy regarding that (sorry), but I recall reading = it. Celegorm I know with a 100% certainty. I sometimes wonder what people = make of the word servants (connotation wise)... it doesn't equal slavery fo= r me. People can also choose servitude because they want to help, serve a l= eader they do admire and in return they get a place to sleep, protection an= d honour! Oh and I would love to have a cook right now *sighs dreamily*, p= erhaps a cleaning lady... Oh one can wish right? Rhapsody [breaks out] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2378 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56604 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 22:27:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 22:27:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 22:27:10 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.d64.2eccc856 (14467) for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:27:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:27:00 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232231220" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=zAidXMq_2WIDGx5zuMSroCLjOkW7xej3cUOEkNvVy70ZwKCKdLV9 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232231220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, he did. In the Silm it is said that Celegorm had servants (who left Dior's sons in the woods during the aftermath of the 2nd kinslaying), make of that as you That was in Middle-earth. Jane referred to Aman. The situation was quite different, the time of the foray against Doriath. I expect there were distinct divisions of labor among the followers of the sons of Feanor by then and quite military in nature under the circumstances at that time. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) -------------------------------1232231220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Yes, he did. In the Silm it is said that Ce= legorm had servants (who
left Dior's sons in the woods during the aft= ermath of the 2nd
kinslaying), make of that as you
That was in Middle-earth. Jane referred to Aman. = The situation was quite different, the time of the foray against Doriath. = I expect there were distinct divisions of labor among the followers of the= sons of Feanor by then and quite military in nature under the circumstanc= es at that time.



A Good Credi= t Score is 700 or Above. See yours in= just 2 easy steps!
-------------------------------1232231220-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2379 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73471 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 22:37:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2009 22:37:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s7.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.145) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 22:37:19 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W35 ([65.55.34.135]) by col0-omc3-s7.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:37:19 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_eb6c9208-a615-4424-8e0f-4f5e4a8ba9d2_" To: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:37:19 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2009 22:37:19.0848 (UTC) FILETIME=[2831DE80:01C978F4] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] RE: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=GTItrgQlThUu1LkS5u0dWb5obaanYDyIqDfqomlCorrkjbc5ZgVNcg X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_eb6c9208-a615-4424-8e0f-4f5e4a8ba9d2_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The menial tasks did need to get done, and there were probably a lot of = them. The elves had technology, yes, but not supermarkets or ready-made cl= othes. A person running a household generally does not have the time/oppor= tunity to see to all of these things. So, he or she would probably do some= of them, but also just as probably delegate others. There is no reason to= think they didn't have trade, so there were probably elves who spent a goo= d deal of time traveling about and bartering over goods - simply being midd= le men. That life is what you make of it. Did Feanor or Nerdanel make = their sons' clothes, for instance? (I had a dream where Nerdanel did that,= but, ummm, I don't expect my dreams to be consistent or make much sense!) = Or did someone else make clothes? What about weaving the fabric? Growing= the flax? I do not think that these things would be 'beneath' the ruling = class (after all, Galadriel seems able to do it), but rather that there wou= ld be a division of labor, and certain groups of elves would become skilled= in certain areas. Even Feanor couldn't *really* do it all (though I bet h= e tried!) Thus, in Dawn's example, they aren't merely stable boys; they a= re apprenticed to one day be horse trainers. It is only temporarily that t= heir tasks consist mostly of mucking out stalls. I think it is important t= o note that elves put a lot of care and skill into even seemingly simple ta= sks (like making clothing). So, even if it seems 'menial' to us, it doesn'= t mean elves would view it that way. They seem to have an attitude of, wha= tever you do, do it well, and learn to do it better....but I am not speakin= g of Aman or Noldor in particular. An elvish farmer would want to learn as= much as he or she could about the plants and animals - would be part botan= ist, part veterinarian. Even if their 'job' was to produce food, their 'vo= cation' would be a bit more involved than that. Just like we tell young pe= ople today - find a job where someone will pay you to do what you love. A= nd I do think it likely that there would naturally be some elves who wouldn= 't mind being waited on hand and foot, if they could get away with it. Sae= ros of Doriath and Salgant of Gondolin come to mind (neither of them are fr= om Aman, of course). So, the posibility of 'subservient' servants, doing m= enial tasks and nothing more for a 'master' who has no part in sharing thei= r chores, could exist - but probably as an abuse of the system and not the = way things 'ought' to be. Someone could perform certain menial tasks in ex= change for food and lodging - and plenty of time to pursue their 'true' int= erest. Even though elves are immortal, they start out young. If older,= more skilled elves are going to have the opportunity to pursue their artis= tic endeavors, someone else has to be making sure that the day-to-day stuff= is being done; probably an apprentice. Learning and art require leisure. = It would be impractical to assume that Finwe, lord of a whole city, cooked= every day. Maybe he liked to; but he probably had a lot of other responsi= bilities that would trump that one. And most likely whoever was in charge = of putting dinner on the table in his hall every night had a position of re= spect and took delight in cooking. A 'master chef', not a 'servant'. Tol= kien, bless his heart, didn't bother describing any of this to us. So, we = get to make it up as we go, and find something that seems believable to us = for what we *do* know about the elves - immortals living in a land of peace= , 'guests' of the Valar. What I've detailed above is just my guess at how = that might work. Your mileage may vary. MithLuin -* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -= - *- ** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* ** * * God saw that the light was good, and Go= d separated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l= =EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello. To: Silmarilli= onWritersGuild@yahoogroups.comFrom: jhfink65@gmail.comDate: Sat, 17 Jan 200= 9 13:24:24 -0800Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles o= f elves I just want to comment. Why would there be a serving class in para= dise as Aman was supposed to be? That just strikes me as wrong or not a giv= en. Your commentary implies that some elves would serve others. Why would = that be in a land like that? I think each family would be more self suffici= ent than that and the serving class would be more of a middle earth thing. = Just an idea. Tolkien made no mention of it at all so there is a lot of lee= way there. I think there is room for alternate views on this point. Jane -p= hyncke On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 4:14 AM, Tinni = wrote: I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfiction of la= te. It seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the day to day li= ves of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of transposing life as w= e know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impression that a lot of f= anfiction writers were super imposing suburbane houses into Aman. Few of th= e chief things that have struck me,1. House hold chores: I rather doubt any= of the sons of Feanor cleaned there own room, ever! By cleaning I do mean = dusting of shelves, moping of floors, although I am sure they did arrange t= heir own books on the said shelf.2. Servants: I am sure Feanor had a lot of= servants. I get the feeling that a lot of fanfic writers are uncomfortable= with the idea of servants. Possible because servants do have a negative co= notation to a lot of people. I assure you servant just means someone whose = duty it is to provide domestic service. There is nothing inheriently negati= ve about being a servant.3. Size of houses: This is a bit more umm... obliq= ue. To begin with I am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and other would have had mult= i-bedroom mansons with many live-in servants and their families. But I kind= of got the impression the houses of the lords were like the houses of the = old lords during the Middle Ages. You know, almost a town within castle wal= ls. I got this from Rivendell's description as the Last Homely Home east of= the great sea, which implies that there are more Homely Homes west of the = great sea.Last point I thought I would mention is cooking. The question is = would Nardanel and others be cooking on a daily basis. This is complicated.= Because 1) Ladies of the houses did used cook/closely supervise cooking in= South Asia, but 2) I am not sure of the status of cooking in the west. I g= ot the impression from reading Jane Austin, the daughter of the house being= needed to cook usually indicated that the family was not quite as well off= as they should be. I am not sure.Anyway, any comments? Am I the only one w= ho thinks that modern subarbia is making an appearance in Aman? Do people t= hink life in Aman was like modern suburbia? ______________________________= ___________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync= . http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_0120= 09 --_eb6c9208-a615-4424-8e0f-4f5e4a8ba9d2_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
The menial tasks did need to get done, and there we= re probably a lot of them.  The elves had technology, yes, but not sup= ermarkets or ready-made clothes.  A person running a household general= ly does not have the time/opportunity to see to all of these things.  = So, he or she would probably do some of them, but also just as probably del= egate others.  There is no reason to think they didn't have trade, so = there were probably elves who spent a good deal of time traveling about and= bartering over goods - simply being middle men.  That life is what yo= u make of it. 
 
Did Feanor or Nerdanel make their sons'= clothes, for instance?  (I had a dream where Nerdanel did that, but, = ummm, I don't expect my dreams to be consistent or make much sense!)  = Or did someone else make clothes?  What about weaving the fabric? = ; Growing the flax?  I do not think that these things would be 'beneat= h' the ruling class (after all, Galadriel seems able to do it), but rather = that there would be a division of labor, and certain groups of elves would = become skilled in certain areas.  Even Feanor couldn't *really* do it = all (though I bet he tried!)
 
Thus, in Dawn's example, they a= ren't merely stable boys; they are apprenticed to one day be horse trainers= .  It is only temporarily that their tasks consist mostly of mucking o= ut stalls.  I think it is important to note that elves put a lot of ca= re and skill into even seemingly simple tasks (like making clothing). = So, even if it seems 'menial' to us, it doesn't mean elves would view it t= hat way.  They seem to have an attitude of, whatever you do, do it wel= l, and learn to do it better....but I am not speaking of Aman or Noldor in = particular.  An elvish farmer would want to learn as much as he or she= could about the plants and animals - would be part botanist, part veterina= rian.  Even if their 'job' was to produce food, their 'vocation' would= be a bit more involved than that.  Just like we tell young people tod= ay - find a job where someone will pay you to do what you love. 
<= BR> And I do think it likely that there would naturally be some elves who w= ouldn't mind being waited on hand and foot, if they could get away with it.=   Saeros of Doriath and Salgant of Gondolin come to mind (neither of t= hem are from Aman, of course).  So, the posibility of 'subservient' se= rvants, doing menial tasks and nothing more for a 'master' who has no part = in sharing their chores, could exist - but probably as an abuse of the syst= em and not the way things 'ought' to be.  Someone could perform certai= n menial tasks in exchange for food and lodging - and plenty of time to pur= sue their 'true' interest. 
 
Even though elves are immo= rtal, they start out young.  If older, more skilled elves are going to= have the opportunity to pursue their artistic endeavors, someone else has = to be making sure that the day-to-day stuff is being done; probably an appr= entice.  Learning and art require leisure.  It would be impractic= al to assume that Finwe, lord of a whole city, cooked every day.  Mayb= e he liked to; but he probably had a lot of other responsibilities that wou= ld trump that one.  And most likely whoever was in charge of putting d= inner on the table in his hall every night had a position of respect and to= ok delight in cooking.  A 'master chef', not a 'servant'.
  Tolkien, bless his heart, didn't bother describing any of this to us.&nb= sp; So, we get to make it up as we go, and find something that seems believ= able to us for what we *do* know about the elves - immortals living in a la= nd of peace, 'guests' of the Valar.  What I've detailed above is just = my guess at how that might work.  Your mileage may vary. 
&n= bsp;
MithLuin

-* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *-
** *-* |> | |= | |\| *-* **
* *

God saw that the light was good, and God sepa= rated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4

Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i m= orniello.









To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
From: jhfink65@gma= il.com
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:24:24 -0800
Subject: Re: [Silmarilli= onWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves

I just want to comment. = Why would there be a serving class in paradise as Aman was supposed to be? = That just strikes me as wrong or not a given.  Your commentary implies= that some elves would serve others. Why would that be in a land like that?=

I think each family would be more self sufficient than that and th= e serving class would be more of a middle earth thing.

Just an idea= . Tolkien made no mention of it at all so there is a lot of leeway there. I= think there is room for alternate views on this point.

Jane -phync= ke


On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 4:14 AM,= Tinni <sh= arminchoudhury@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfic= tion of late. It
seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the= day to day
lives of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of tra= nsposing
life as we know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impr= ession
that a lot of fanfiction writers were super imposing suburbane h= ouses
into Aman. Few of the chief things that have struck me,

1.= House hold chores: I rather doubt any of the sons of Feanor
cleaned th= ere own room, ever! By cleaning I do mean dusting of
shelves, moping of= floors, although I am sure they did arrange their
own books on the sai= d shelf.

2. Servants: I am sure Feanor had a lot of servants. I get = the
feeling that a lot of fanfic writers are uncomfortable with the ide= a
of servants. Possible because servants do have a negative conotation =
to a lot of people. I assure you servant just means someone whose
d= uty it is to provide domestic service. There is nothing inheriently
neg= ative about being a servant.

3. Size of houses: This is a bit more u= mm... oblique. To begin with I
am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and other woul= d have had multi-bedroom
mansons with many live-in servants and their f= amilies. But I kind of
got the impression the houses of the lords were = like the houses of
the old lords during the Middle Ages. You know, almo= st a town within
castle walls. I got this from Rivendell's description = as the Last
Homely Home east of the great sea, which implies that there= are more
Homely Homes west of the great sea.

Last point I thoug= ht I would mention is cooking. The question is
would Nardanel and other= s be cooking on a daily basis. This is
complicated. Because 1) Ladies o= f the houses did used cook/closely
supervise cooking in South Asia, but= 2) I am not sure of the status
of cooking in the west. I got the impre= ssion from reading Jane
Austin, the daughter of the house being needed = to cook usually
indicated that the family was not quite as well off as = they should
be. I am not sure.

Anyway, any comments? Am I the on= ly one who thinks that modern
subarbia is making an appearance in Aman?= Do people think life in
Aman was like modern suburbia?




Windows Live=99: Keep = your life in sync. Check it out. --_eb6c9208-a615-4424-8e0f-4f5e4a8ba9d2_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2380 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22396 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 00:14:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2009 00:14:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 00:14:41 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BCFE10400B for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:14:40 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:14:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 00:55:32 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <161754759.20090118005532@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <365406197.20090117211147@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Weapons and War (was: room/house styles of elves) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=F69iCU4_7tzDQ55FV56nNH5Q9JfmJXJWpY0_1PYxj0UPO27dJf4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> I don't recall the bit about Orome and the spears. Do you (or DF> anyone else) know where that is? I think I remember that from a discussion about weapons, will have to check it. But it could one of those quotations that never existed, for now I think I've been looking for that once already. I'll let you know if I find it. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2381 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55876 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 00:14:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2009 00:14:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 00:14:42 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67E9910400D for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:14:41 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:14:41 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:14:31 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <84032557.20090118011431@tlen.pl> To: Jane Fink In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=g5VP6DPoe-nakGiNuMgzff8DWt395RKsP2A1o4STVW7bwJjyvhc X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Jane -phyncke: JF> I just want to comment. Why would there be a serving class in JF> paradise as Aman was supposed to be? That just strikes me as wrong JF> or not a given.� Your commentary implies that some elves would JF> serve others. Why would that be in a land like that? To me it is impossible, no servants in Aman. People doing one job so others could do another, yes, but not in a position of a servant. Rhapsody: r> I sometimes wonder what people make of the word servants (connotation r> wise)... it doesn't equal slavery for me. A word servant itself is too me a negative one, this might play a role. For example a maid in a hotel is not a servant in my understanding. To me servant is always a person of a lesser position, status, respect and this is something which can't take place in my vision of Aman. Like a servant girl in today's India doing all dirty job (cleaning, washing, taking care of garbage etc.) is much lower class than her employers and probably has got no chance of promotion higher (lower cast to be precise, example of real people). Totally different situation than a girl who goes to an old lady twice a week to clean her house and help with various stuff the lady can't handle on her own. Both get money, but their position is different. r> People can also choose r> servitude because they want to help, serve a leader they do admire and r> in return they get a place to sleep, protection and honour! Regarding Celegorm's servants - I always understand it as his soldiers, esquires or lower in rank. That would fit your description. Though those soldiers admired their leader way too much or in a sick way given their deed :/ Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2382 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16576 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 01:25:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2009 01:25:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.237) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 01:25:45 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2009 01:25:45 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2009 01:25:45 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:25:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <84032557.20090118011431@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=n7ZAI-crQxxbO7fWNDD0IJp6XzLq7viSxGFRlBcz3DukqudCwM7XNRCJQg X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked But that's just it though. There are people who think that their talents a= re best served in the role of a servant. I mean, I was once seeing a docum= entary about modern butlers and not only where these guys doing what they = were doing out of choice and making a lot of money out of it too I might a= dd, but a lot of them couldn't imagine doing anything else. One of them wa= s saying how he is a perfectionist, who does something once and does it pe= rfectly and who gets great pleasure in anticipating peoples need and meeti= ng them. So while I don't think there was a "servant class" in Aman, i.e. = people who were poor and uneducated and had to support themselves as serv= ants. I do think that the princes and lords were served by people who saw = service as their calling. The difference than is that the average people w= ould not have had servent. I mean, if you read Jane Austin than it seem pr= etty clear that at that period in time there was a class so poor that almo= st every family middle-class upward would have had at least one servant b= ecause they could draw from said low class and pay them pitence. In fact, = there life would be less bareable without one. But this was an actual soci= o-economically low class, as still exist in many parts of Asia and Africa.= However, I do not think such would be a case that would exist in Aman. I= n Aman, the servants of the lords would really be in that position by choi= ce, not out of necessity. They would be extremely proud of their jobs as a= nyone else and of course would be handsomely rewarded. At least, that's wh= at I think. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Sirielle wrote: > > Jane -phyncke: > JF> I just want to comment. Why wou= ld there be a serving class in > JF> paradise as Aman was supposed to be? T= hat just strikes me as wrong > JF> or not a given.=A0 Your commentary impl= ies that some elves would > JF> serve others. Why would that be in a land l= ike that? > > To me it is impossible, no servants in Aman. People doing on= e job so > others could do another, yes, but not in a position of a servant= . > > Rhapsody: > r> I sometimes wonder what people make of the word serv= ants (connotation > r> wise)... it doesn't equal slavery for me. > > A w= ord servant itself is too me a negative one, this might play a role. For >= example a maid in a hotel is not a servant in my understanding. To me ser= vant is always a person of a > lesser position, status, respect and this is= something which can't take place > in my vision of Aman. Like a servant g= irl in today's India doing all dirty job (cleaning, washing, taking > care= of garbage etc.) is much lower class than her employers and > probably has= got no chance of promotion higher (lower cast to be precise, > example of= real people). Totally different situation than a girl who > goes to an old= lady twice a week to clean her house and help with > various stuff the lad= y can't handle on her own. Both get money, but > their position is differen= t. > > r> People can also choose > r> servitude because they want to help= , serve a leader they do admire and > r> in return they get a place to sl= eep, protection and honour! > > Regarding Celegorm's servants - I always u= nderstand it as his > soldiers, esquires or lower in rank. That would fit y= our description. > Though those soldiers admired their leader way too much= or in a sick > way given their deed :/ > > > Suilad, > Sirielle = > > sirielle@... > http://www.sirielle.com > http://sir= ielle.cgsociety.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2383 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7035 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 01:44:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2009 01:44:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 01:44:19 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2009 01:44:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2009 01:44:07 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:44:06 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=8WwjNiqFVz1OF9lP4qzuDst5LOQoobeCr-aIfbDF5XGoCH2ptJ6o60PbvQ X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked One of the reasons this can never go on canonnofanon.net as an entry is be= cause it is all feeling and interpitation. Tolkien never describes life in= Aman to any great length that we can draw firm conclusion from. So it is = all conjecture. But I must admit Dawn that I find the concept of the sons = of Feanor doing chores so alien that it irritates me to no end. I simply c= an't see it. But it is perhaps because I have had servants that I have a d= ifferent view of servitude and while I can see Feanor objecting to servitu= de that is trust upon someone, I can also see him admire someone who takes= service as a solemn calling and strives to do the best in it. I guess I a= m thinking of Rose Porteous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Porteous) = here, who used to be a maid but than married her multi-millioner boss and = after his death in herited it all. In an interview not too many years ago = she said that she still cleaned her own toilets because the servants she h= ad just didn't do it properly. She than went on to great length to describ= e how toilets should be cleaned. There in, I think, lies a difference in = perceptions. We all think of cleaning as spraying something and wiping it = off. But to many in the business, especially in Asia where they take servi= ce seriously, cleaning is an art that they take as seriously as Feanor eve= r took his gem making. I think Feanor would appreciate that. I mean, I don= 't think that he would have any respect for someone who did something with= out feeling passion for it, no matter what it was, but I think he would ho= ld even people who chose to send their life as cleaner in high regard if t= hey had that same passion for their craft that he had for his own crafts. = --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > I'm going to give my replies to your questions, Tinni= , with a reminder that > these are only one writer's opinions and should b= e taken as such. :) > > > House hold chores: I rather doubt any of the son= s of Feanor > > cleaned there own room, ever! > > I actually see it exactl= y the opposite. In Felak!verse, Feanor has no actual > *servants*: He has = apprentices, and he has assistants who aspire to > apprenticeship, if not w= ith him than with another craftsman, and the same > goes for Nerdanel. The= y are part of the household, so they help with chores > in addition to the= ir duties as his/her students. > > But so do the sons of Feanor. My Feanor= is characterized, in part, by an > absolute despise of servitude in all o= f its forms. Anyone who would want to > clean floors for a lifetime (which= is pretty darned long for the Eldar of > Aman ;) is not someone with whom= he'd want to associate, and he's also > capable of seeing how his discomf= ort as a "lesser" being of the Valar > translates to another's discomfort = at being a servant to him. > > So *all* of the members of Feanor's househo= ld assist with chores. Feanor and > his sons alternate cooking responsibil= ities, for example. Each son, > apprentice, and assistant has chores to do.= Nerdanel and Feanor take care of > their children and oversee the larger = responsibilities in the household. > > In my Aman, the servants are commo= n in the royal households. So Feanor is an > exception. (Go figure.) Fingo= lfin, Finarfin, and Finwe all have servants. In > my novel *Another Man's = Cage,* there is a scene where Feanor arrives at his > father's house, and = two grooms manifest to take his and Maedhros's horses. > Feanor gets reall= y upset. First, he is insulted that they think he and > Maedhros are incap= able of stabling their own horses. Secondly, he dislikes > that his father= would subject Elves to servitude for the life of the world. > Finwe answe= rs that they are young and aspire to education, in this case, as > horse t= rainers. But it is a subject of contention between father and son. > > Fo= r me, what I think is important to keep in mind is that Elves and mortal >= humans differ enormously in one regard: Elves are immortal! :) That proba= bly > sounds like stating the obvious, and it is, but I think it's importa= nt in > considering how Elves would have considered careers as servants. As= mortals, > humans have generally created an afterlife as a reward for goo= d works in > life. In medieval human societies--on which many people base = their > Tolkien-based writings (and I will say more on this in a moment)-- = this is > certainly true, and one system of belief was that toiling in life= was a > guarantee to Heaven after. Servitude was, then, only as long as a= person's > life; something much better awaited afterward. > > For Elves,= though, servitude would endure for millennia, as long as the life > of th= e world, excepting ideals like Feanor's, where servants are only > appoint= ed who aspire, through their service, to achieve education in a > particul= ar discipline. I have a hard time imagining an Elven > society--especially = in Aman--being comfortable with this. > > Okay, that drifted into the seco= nd point too ... :) > > > But I kind of > > got the impression the houses = of the lords were like the houses of > > the old lords during the Middle Ag= es. You know, almost a town within > > castle walls. > > In my verse, Fea= nor has a large house simply because he likes building. It > is often joke= d that whenever he has another son, he builds a new wing on his > house. ;= ) > > In terms of medieval construction, I would not balk at such a descr= iption in > Middle-earth, *maybe* in Aman (depending on how the author depi= cts it). > However, those medieval castle/town walls had a purpose, which = was as a > defense in a very violent and uncertain time. This fear would n= ot have been > present in Aman before the Darkening. It would, however, ha= ve been present > in Middle-earth. > > In my personal verse, as one moves= away from Valinor in Aman, the natural > hazards increase. (This is how I= make sense of the fact that Ungoliant > camped out in *Aman* for who-know= s-how-long before making her dramatic > entrance. I don't think, given her= presence, that a few wolves are that hard > to justify! ;) So settlements= outside of Valinor tend more toward the > construction you describe for t= he very practical purpose of keeping > unwelcome wildlife from wandering th= e towns. But in Valinor itself, defenses > are unnecessary. The city of Ti= rion has guards ... whose duty is to welcome > people to the city! :) > >= > The question is > > would Nardanel and others be cooking on a daily basi= s. > > According the *Laws and Customs,* Eldarin men--not women--did the = cooking. > I'm not going to provide a quote. I think we all probably have L= &C. If > someone doesn't have access to L&C and wants the quote, just let = me know. > > Of course, L&C was written *well* after the Years of the Tre= es and described > Elves living on Tol Eressea. You could certainly make t= he argument that it > was different in Aman during the Time of the Trees. = Personally, I don't > think it was, just because I like the idea of the me= n doing the cooking. (My > husband does 99% of the cooking in the House of= Felagund! :) > > In general, I can see the pitfall of not wanting to make= Aman like > 21st-century suburbia. However, I think there is also a pitfal= l in making > Aman too much like the European Middle Ages. When I joined a= medieval > reenactment group last year, a friend of mine for whom I beta-= read teased me > that she hoped I wasn't going to start picking on her sto= ries for not > meeting the standards of medievalist's canon as well as To= lkien's "canon." > My reply to her was, why would I? Aman and Middle-earth = are fantasy worlds. > Insisting that they be true to our own history's Mid= dle Ages is rather > ridiculous. Yes, they are supposed to serve as mythic= al history for our own > world. So, as I noted on the castle/town walls is= sue, I do not flinch * > generally* to see authors use medieval history in= constructing their own > verses except where it does not make sense, as i= n having walled, defended > towns in pre-Darkening Valinor simply because = this was what was done in > medieval Europe. And certain Middle-earth cult= ures are clearly based on > medieval civilizations, i.e., Gondor and Rohan= . I think this argument is > much harder to make in Aman. > > In fact, pe= rsonally, what I like to see in stories set in Aman is for > authors to br= eak away almost *entirely* from what we have and have had here > in Modern= -earth. We're talking a culture completely removed in time and > place fro= m Modern-earth, a civilization that has none of our concerns for > war, di= sease, or even death prior to the Darkening. I admire authors who > take t= ime to think about how such a civilization would differ from we know > and= have known. > > Again, 100% opinion so take or leave as you will. Good qu= estions, though. :) > > Dawn > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2384 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25807 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 07:02:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2009 07:02:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.158) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 07:02:01 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so945801ywr.0 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:02:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.150.122.18 with SMTP id u18mr3832269ybc.164.1232262120948; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:02:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:02:00 -0800 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd6a8acfd43820460bc6168 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=nAveUBt16BSzF4rh-XMxgw6e8z0jaIcysl1LTSsHCr4k X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --000e0cd6a8acfd43820460bc6168 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That is pretty much what I meant as the time frame you are talking about fi= ts what I am saying. The time period you are talking about covers Celegorm= in Middle Earth during the first age not during the time period in Aman (T= ime of the Two Trees) before they went to Middle Earth. So there is still l= eeway with that. I don't believe there is mention of servants in Aman or Va= linor as such. I can check on that more closely. To carry this a little bi= t more. There is some precedent for subordinate relationships as the Maiar = are subordinate to the Valar and as such serve them but they are also power= ful in their own right and you would not really call them servants. One mig= ht call them lesser deities. But there is that precedent in Tolkien as far= as that kind of relationship goes...but you could. A pure serving class is= really what I think the original poster was talking about, not minor nobil= ity. Tolkien did talk about tributary relationships in his work, but again = those were in Middle Earth, not Aman. Aegnor was a lord in tribute to his b= rother Finrod...and so forth. He was subordinate in that way. It was a polt= ical structure. I think there is room for interpretation on this point, st= ill. It is interesting but I think there is room for people to interpret th= is in different ways for their fiction and not have to adhere to one way of= thinking about it. I think the question is...were there maids and the lik= e. And I am not sure. Jane (phyncke) On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 2:23 PM, rha= psody_the_bard wrote: > --- In SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroups.com, > Jane F= ink > > wrote: > > > > I just want to comment. Why would the= re be a serving class in > > paradise as Aman was supposed to be? That just= strikes me as wrong > > or not a given. Your commentary implies that some = elves would > > serve others. Why would that be in a land like that? > > > = > I think each family would be more self sufficient than that and the > > s= erving class would be more of a middle earth thing. > > > > Just an idea. T= olkien made no mention of it at all so there is a > > lot of leeway there. = I think there is room for alternate views on > > this point. > > > > Yes, h= e did. In the Silm it is said that Celegorm had servants (who > left Dior's= sons in the woods during the aftermath of the 2nd > kinslaying), make of t= hat as you will. ;) I have no idea what kind of > lordlings that would be, = if they were of lesser nobility in a way, or > that they did bring in enoug= h of valuables to justify to carry a > banner close to the leader they choo= se to follow > (bannerlords/bannerheren is common practice in Dutch Medieva= l times > (beyond 10th age up 'til 14th age, give or take), where with enou= gh > cash you can get yourself a title of somesorts, after all waging war >= costs a lot). Oh and if I remember it correctly, E=F6l had servants too. >= My mind is fuzzy regarding that (sorry), but I recall reading it. > Celego= rm I know with a 100% certainty. > > I sometimes wonder what people make of= the word servants (connotation > wise)... it doesn't equal slavery for me.= People can also choose > servitude because they want to help, serve a lead= er they do admire and > in return they get a place to sleep, protection and= honour! > > Oh and I would love to have a cook right now *sighs dreamily*,= perhaps > a cleaning lady... Oh one can wish right? > > Rhapsody > [breaks= out] > > > --000e0cd6a8acfd43820460bc6168 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That is pretty much what I meant as the time frame you are talking about fi= ts what I am saying.

The time period you are talking about covers C= elegorm in Middle Earth during the first age not during the time period in = Aman (Time of the Two Trees) before they went to Middle Earth. So there is = still leeway with that. I don't believe there is mention of servants in= Aman or Valinor as such. I can check on that more closely.

To car= ry this a little bit more. There is some precedent for subordinate relation= ships as the Maiar are subordinate to the Valar and as such serve them but = they are also powerful in their own right and you would not really call the= m servants. One might call them lesser deities.  But there is that pre= cedent in Tolkien as far as that kind of relationship goes...but you could.= A pure serving class is really what I think the original poster was talkin= g about, not minor nobility. Tolkien did talk about tributary relationships= in his work, but again those were in Middle Earth, not Aman. Aegnor was a = lord in tribute to his brother Finrod...and so forth. He was subordinate in= that way. It was a poltical structure.

I think there is room for = interpretation on this point, still. It is interesting but I think there is= room for people to interpret this in different ways for their fiction and = not have to adhere to one way of thinking about it.

I think the qu= estion is...were there maids and the like. And I am not sure.

Jane = (phyncke)

On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 2:23 P= M, rhapsody_the_bard <rhapsody74@gmail.com> wrote:

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com,= Jane Fink


wrote:
&g= t;
> I just want to comment. Why would there be a serving class in <= br> > paradise as Aman was supposed to be? That just strikes me as wrong=
> or not a given. Your commentary implies that some elves would <= br> > serve others. Why would that be in a land like that?
>
= > I think each family would be more self sufficient than that and the <= br> > serving class would be more of a middle earth thing.
>
= > Just an idea. Tolkien made no mention of it at all so there is a
= > lot of leeway there. I think there is room for alternate views on > this point.
>

Yes, he did. In the Silm it is s= aid that Celegorm had servants (who
left Dior's sons in the woods d= uring the aftermath of the 2nd
kinslaying), make of that as you will. ;= ) I have no idea what kind of
lordlings that would be, if they were of = lesser nobility in a way, or
that they did bring in enough of valuables= to justify to carry a
banner close to the leader they choose to follow=
(bannerlords/bannerheren is common practice in Dutch Medieval times (beyond 10th age up 'til 14th age, give or take), where with enough <= br> cash you can get yourself a title of somesorts, after all waging war costs a lot). Oh and if I remember it correctly, E=F6l had servants too.<= br> My mind is fuzzy regarding that (sorry), but I recall reading it.
C= elegorm I know with a 100% certainty.

I sometimes wonder what peop= le make of the word servants (connotation
wise)... it doesn't equal= slavery for me. People can also choose
servitude because they want to = help, serve a leader they do admire and
in return they get a place to s= leep, protection and honour!

Oh and I would love to have a cook ri= ght now *sighs dreamily*, perhaps
a cleaning lady... Oh one can wish ri= ght?

Rhapsody
[breaks out]

=

--000e0cd6a8acfd43820460bc6168-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2385 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8509 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 14:09:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2009 14:09:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 14:09:27 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2009 14:09:27 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2009 14:09:27 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:09:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=xSCFCg8fU28TpTxRPg0jxdfc5AXqTEDH1MO201t4IOfZVIOF_Fdqp44 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Jane Fink w= rote: > > That is pretty much what I meant as the time frame you are talkin= g > about fits what I am saying. > > The time period you are talking about= covers Celegorm in Middle > Earth during the first age not during the tim= e period in Aman (Time > of the Two Trees) before they went to Middle Eart= h. So there is > still leeway with that. I don't believe there is mention = of > servants in Aman or Valinor as such. I can check on that more > clos= ely. Of course, Tolkien doesn't mention how long these servants followed C= elegorm, just that he had them. My comment was not aimed at a time period n= or location, merely an observation that servants employed by elves were men= tioned by the professor. I find Eol intriguing since I believe it's mention= ed somewhere (HOME, I just need to see where I left that research for Night= Magic), however he has never been under the influence of the Valar, nor ha= s he seen how Maiar and others served as servants on Aman. > To carry this= a little bit more. There is some precedent for > subordinate relationship= s as the Maiar are subordinate to the Valar > and as such serve them but t= hey are also powerful in their own > right and you would not really call t= hem servants. One might call > them lesser deities. But there is that pre= cedent in Tolkien as far > as that kind of relationship goes...but you cou= ld. A pure serving > class is really what I think the original poster was = talking about, > not minor nobility. Tolkien did talk about tributary rela= tionships > in his work, but again those were in Middle Earth, not Aman. = Hmmm, well if the Valar had servants on Aman then I do think its plausible = that servants were also employed by elves. They would just follow the examp= le set to them, was it not the wish of the Valar to teach the firstborn? I= do think there is a huge difference between a caste system where people ar= e born into servitude and those who offer their services freely but are cal= led servants (job titles and such). I do think the first did not appear amo= ngst elves on Aman, the second however did. My point of bringing up bannerl= ords however was that even in medieval times if you had enough money or eno= ugh men to contribute to wars and alike, you could arise your peasant statu= s to a higher one. In some cultures, even in these times, that was unheard = of! I think this was the quote you were looking for: "With the Valar came= other spirits whose being also began before the World, of the same order a= s the Valar but of less degree. These are the Maiar, the people of the Vala= r, and their servants and helpers." The connotation here to me is positive= , even when the word less is used. It feels to me that Eru had a somesort o= f ranking order/caste idea in his mind. Ulmo, Manwe and so on all have serv= ants at Aman so who is not to say that some elf who is good at making baske= ts would not offer their services to a house in exchange for a meal? A plac= e to sleep, yes even on Aman where still plenty if predators were roaming a= round. > Aegnor was a lord in tribute to his brother Finrod...and so forth= . > He was subordinate in that way. It was a poltical structure. Well one= lord cannot maintain all lands, but still going back to the connotation th= at the words servant has, what is wrong if you are the Jamie Oliver of the = elves and you can offer your cooking services t Aman? Or if weaving, doing = laundry is really your thing and it brings you pleasure to do this for othe= rs? Of course one can say someone cooking meals for you comes with a status= , but *if* Aman equals paradise (F=EBanor's words aimed at Fingolfin while = he holds him speaks of thralldom in a negative way (the word thrall is also= used throughout the Silm or CoH, just think of Sador)*) then I think no el= f would have had issues offer their talents as a service to another. Its ju= st that servants comes with a very negative ring to it to some I think. Bas= ed on cultures, background and all of that of course, logically so we reaso= n and write from what we know. However, thinking back to how people strive= to keep things within a known historical timeframe.. to me its still fanta= sy and doesn't need to be historically correct to me in every detail. Super= markets, fast food is something that appeared here in the fifties/sixties, = that might be a tad jarring for some. I'd be fascinated all the same. > I= think there is room for interpretation on this point, still. It is > inter= esting but I think there is room for people to interpret this > in differe= nt ways for their fiction and not have to adhere to one > way of thinking = about it. Absolutely :) That's the whole fun of it. I am all for keeping i= t to a wide interpretation as possible. > I think the question is...were = there maids and the like. And I am > not sure. Everyone has their own tal= ent, including being kick ass in cleaning rooms, if they get something in e= xchange, yes I think there were 'helpers' like that. In that paradise, why = would not others help others out? Even the Valar needed them to do their bu= siness **. Unless every elf can do every task they can set their mind to in= its excellence, I am wondering what system would be in place otherwise for= such a service exchange and what word would be suitable for it. Sometimes = servants, maids, valets and so on can cover it just fine. Rhapsody (comes = with citations) * 'This is sharper than thy tongue. Try but once more to u= surp my place and the love of my father, and maybe it will rid the Noldor o= f one who seeks to be the master of thralls.'" ** Thus they brought word t= o him of well nigh all that passed in Arda; yet some things were hidden eve= n from the eyes of Manw=EB and the servants of Manw=EB, for where Melkor sa= t in his dark thought impenetrable shadows lay. Therefore Ulmo uprooted an= island which long had stood alone amid the sea, far from either shore, sin= ce the tumults of the fall of Illuin; and with the aid of his servants he m= oved it, as it were a mighty ship, and anchored it in the Bay of Balar, int= o which Sirion poured his water. But soon the Sun was drawn down by the se= rvants of Ulmo, and went then in haste under the Earth, and so came unseen = to the east and there mounted the heaven again, lest night be over-long and= evil walk under the Moon. (there are more I think, I just don't have the = energy to type them all over) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2386 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50974 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 14:50:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2009 14:50:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 14:50:55 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2009 14:50:55 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2009 14:50:55 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:50:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=iXrRd0wgu4kBLqBivhYd0n48T3V8NcQNJkHK6O7R0Tsqhe_MyPYriHcDuw X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked A thought came to me just now... now we know that there was unlikly to be = a "servant class" in Aman because no one would be living under the poverty= line or be "poor" as we understand it. Sure some people would have less t= han others but they wouldn't be poor as we would understand it. Now given = the argument I was making in my previous posts about some people choosing = to serve, what do people think about the idea of a "service house". I mean= think about it, Gondolin was a city built to mirror the cities in Aman, s= pecifically Tirion. Gondolin twelves houses included a house to which all = musicans belonged, an other to which belonged the guardians of the gates, = the miners etc, etc. I.e. they were professional houses as opposed to hou= ses of blood, though I am sure some of them were related. So what if in Am= an there existed houses of service, whose inhabitants provided the domesti= c service that the people of Valinor, most notably the nobles needed and n= ot because of the money. I mean consider this, in the Ittoen Temple (http= ://www.ittoen.or.jp/english/E-whatis.htm) in Kyoto they embrace cleaning t= oilets as a means of finding peace, humility and a world without conflict.= I.e. it's a spiritual thing. What if, in Aman there didn't exists a servi= ce class but a professional house where service to others was a means of f= ulfilment of ones self and be at peace and not what could be considered "d= egrading servitute"? Any thoughts? -Tinni PS. Is it just me or do I know= way too many random facts... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2387 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 658 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 18:14:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2009 18:14:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.242) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 18:14:50 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so149023anc.2 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:14:49 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.11.137 with SMTP id t9mr516939ibt.49.1232302489526; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:14:49 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.16.70 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:14:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:14:49 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8488_13445507.1232302489516" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=i08N3TBbz5vJ5TTN6ey3I4-E6804T4f5SNc_4pH5qf-2FpqO3YKH X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_8488_13445507.1232302489516-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2389 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19537 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 22:14:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2009 22:14:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.102) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 22:14:41 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 94369 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Jan 2009 22:14:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ZWDF0kcVM1kfv.zfkl_Pxp4P7lQwVyykWRCNVlGWSPacKaT8bFrJIkFk1bJnKmAhjH1g2_hESxh87uH2B3.Z0L7oeDNPKwyoKA.YjtP.22YwE4YKZRI_F8mFi09uMBfZqGRE69ZhTE53Pj8pMTL3K9wg6UG1UjpU8lzHkrsjkv2xup6xPo3NQ50fvrelXK8D0AI7AuXFfiJdcfsIw1AAvNTq5XcIygIA4UybgQ-- X-Received: from [98.16.54.109] by web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:14:40 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:14:40 -0800 (PST) To: A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1095177665-1232316880=:91608" Message-ID: <559904.91608.qm@web53312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Reminder! ALEC's January's Theme : New Beginnings!! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=9qhalIgY60dU4ApinK-f9si8xVIYLLSZ4vfgsdHXQSXrAi2d6A X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1095177665-1232316880=:91608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Then Aragorn laid his hand gently to the sapling, and lo! it seemed to hold= only lightly to the earth, and it was removed without hurt; and Aragorn bo= re it back to the Citadel. Then the withered tree was uprooted, but with re= verence; and they did not burn it, but laid it to rest in the silence of Ra= th D=EDnen. And Aragorn planted the new tree in the court by the fountain, = and swiftly and gladly it began to grow; and when the month of June entered= in it was laden with blossom. 'The sign has been given,' said Aragorn, 'a= nd the day is not far off.' And he set watchmen upon the walls. It was the= day before Midsummer when messengers came from Amon Dn to the City, and th= ey said that there was a riding of fair folk out of the North, and they dre= w near now to the walls of the Pelennor. And the King said: 'At last they h= ave come. Let all the City be made ready!' Return of the King - JRR Tolkie= n Book 2, Chapter 5 The Steward and the King At the start of the year, it= seems only right to have the theme be New Beginnings! Itdoes not have to= be based on documented events in the book and thewords in the theme do not= have to be included in the fiction. Eachwriter has until January 31, 11:59= PM PST=A0to turn in the story (email to alikatskorner@rockfan.com=A0). B= oth submission for last month's theme Holiday Moments and voting for storie= s for A Little Night Music=A0 ends Saturday, January 3 at 11:59 PM PSTTo fi= nd ALEC - look here! http://community.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/=A0 and here = - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/ Good luck and happ= y writing! =A0 =A0 ~~**~~ A day without sunshine is like, night. ~= *~ Okay - so whats the speed of dark? --0-1095177665-1232316880=:91608 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Then Aragorn laid his hand gently to the sapling, and lo= ! it seemed to hold only lightly to the earth, and it was removed without h= urt; and Aragorn bore it back to the Citadel. Then the withered tree was up= rooted, but with reverence; and they did not burn it, but laid it to rest i= n the silence of Rath D=EDnen. And Aragorn planted the new tree in the cour= t by the fountain, and swiftly and gladly it began to grow; and when the mo= nth of June entered in it was laden with blossom.

'The sign has been= given,' said Aragorn, 'and the day is not far off.' And he set watchmen up= on the walls.

It was the day before Midsummer when messengers came f= rom Amon Dn to the City, and they said that there was a riding of fair folk= out of the North, and they drew near now to the walls of the Pelennor. And= the King said: 'At last they have come. Let all the City be made ready!'<= br>
Return of the King - JRR Tolkien
Book 2, Chapter 5 The Steward an= d the King


At the star= t of the year, it seems only right to have the theme be New Beginnings!
Itdoes not have to be based on documented events in the book and thewo= rds in the theme do not have to be included in the fiction. Eachwriter has = until January 31, 11:59 PM PST&nb= sp;to turn in the story (email to alikatskorner@rockfan.com ).
<= b style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">
Both submission for las= t month's theme Holiday Moments and voting for stories for A Little Night M= usic  ends Saturday, January 3 at 1= 1:59 PM PST

To find ALEC - look here! http://community.livejour= nal.com/a_l_e_c/  and here - http://groups.yahoo.com/gr= oup/A_Long_Expected_Contest/


Good luck and happy writing!

 
<= /span> 
~~**~~
A day without sunshine is like, night.
~*~<= br>Okay - so whats the speed of dark?

--0-1095177665-1232316880=:91608-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2390 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27381 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 14:43:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 14:43:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.106) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 14:43:32 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 15022 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2009 14:43:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: vOw01dgVM1n6UX..uUREfdxVtV34Y18M7cezkBB4iDv4NBpqJ8HUAOxW6MMmiiqVuhDEDgvCcQbjm7FZ_e46c65vj3zTKjnKutYJPtc086M5eW3mfn07956Sv5K2qtkNdnl6sIv0nbcvjEdR42TF61ZqujOkmNgAIbL27VB2ion5ww9xQIQ7pfZYr0ET3761Yd6W..uKeuz5G94- X-Received: from [70.64.19.221] by web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:43:31 GMT Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:43:31 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <795527.14223.qm@web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styles of elves) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=a2-nBaaVZpjLIDjVGT733B2l-m4rHM4XIfrBFQwNfUzREV2guA X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- Tinni wrote: > A thought came to me just now... now we know that > there was unlikly > to be a "servant class" in Aman because no one would > be living under > the poverty line or be "poor" as we understand it. > Sure some people > would have less than others but they wouldn't be > poor as we would understand it. I'd argue against this kind of statement. Who says poverty doesn't exist in Aman? Yes, Aman is supposed to be a happy place, but it isn't. The Valar make mistakes. Morgoth destroyed the Trees, Finwe was killed, and there was that whole nasty Kinslaying business. It is not paradise. It is part of Arda Marred, and thus not perfect. It is merely the land of the Elves. Elves are not perfect either. Otherwise, why would there be a Quenya word for 'poverty' (or its opposite: wealth)? And, yes, there's a Quenya word for 'servant'. Cheers, CGL From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2391 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97343 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 17:16:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 17:16:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.170) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 17:16:00 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 26so3264238wfd.13 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:16:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.73.14 with SMTP id v14mr4235093waa.104.1232385359998; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:15:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.102.11 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:15:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:15:59 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <795527.14223.qm@web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_16589_22624109.1232385359991" References: <795527.14223.qm@web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styles of elves) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=d44hH1PI1zDKOjUH414xqKfjeyWMNbU0K9iJN7kwpuMQ7srNnnfz X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_16589_22624109.1232385359991-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2392 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72751 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 18:27:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 18:27:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.107) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 18:27:08 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 62406 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2009 18:27:07 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: LRm.mKUVM1kiF5PbgqCLRmmX9g_wtO43CDyXWDDme8q2_ouL0wdVqdOep7uW_0yoMDP8ZMIli99mCeDERm2ed0sm1_PLhxtSN0XdXJFq97pomay9rMTadq7dkvyKu6sS4s0pICA7XiFgGYEGOoU7_dggXjCKsQAMTSzTJnUsmr1CB7KW1NnqsbNgDDJkkx_Y7Zst6oVTYx4aM10- X-Received: from [70.64.19.221] by web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:27:07 GMT Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:27:07 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <155238.61339.qm@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Re: Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styles of elves) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=si-ztN33VB6RRX0jFhf3JAnQmiunSQxiDSkl-yOqHMFNefQfDw X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- Dawn Felagund wrote: > Interesting points all around. :) To take off from > your linguistic > perspective with a historical perspective, it makes > sense, too, that there > might be no historical record of poverty, if it > existed. The Middle Ages > were rife with poverty, but it wasn't really > discussed in the histories or literature And the Silmarillion is written very much like an abridged history lesson. The stories therein deal with the important players: all kings, princes, and nobles, just as you see in real-world history. The average Elf is never mentioned in any detail at all. We know they existed, but have absolutely no idea what life would be like for them (and only a vaguely better idea of what life would be like for the nobility). I've always maintained that something not being mentioned in the texts is not a good reason to assume it doesn't exist. Sure, peasant Elves were never mentioned. But neither was going to the biff, and we all know that had to happen at some point. (Side note: if anyone wants to argue in favour of Elves having perfect bodily function and never expelling waste, I have Tolkien-attested words to refute that hypothesis as well.) Cheers, CGL From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2393 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48953 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 18:36:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 18:36:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 18:36:51 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.cbf.31314acc (41811) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:36:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:36:48 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232390208" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styl... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=7fEzYi_JixegC7fYnDwGA5nbOpO6lUFCedz1In2lL2Zs0WLRK1VS X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232390208 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit : But neither was going to the biff, and we all know that had to happen at some point. (Side note: if anyone wants to argue in favour of Elves having perfect bodily function and never expelling waste, I have Tolkien-attested words to refute that hypothesis as well.) I am so glad you clarified that. Before I read your final paragraph, I was going to mention that I have unfortunately read discussion threads devoted to exactly that point. There was one related to how did Maedhros eliminate waste hanging from Thangorodrim and another about how Morgoth might have sent him food or, alternatively, can elves exist indefinitely without eating? Fascinating questions (NOT!). Oshun **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) -------------------------------1232390208 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
:
But neither was going to the biff, and we
all kno= w that had to happen at some point.

(Side note: if anyone wants t= o argue in favour of
Elves having perfect bodily function and neverexpelling waste, I have Tolkien-attested words to
refute that hypot= hesis as well.)
I am so glad you clarified that. = Before I read your final paragraph, I was going to mention that I have unf= ortunately read discussion threads devoted to exactly that point. The= re was one related to how did Maedhros eliminate waste hanging from Thango= rodrim and another about how Morgoth might have sent him food or, alt= ernatively, can elves exist indefinitely without eating? Fascinating = questions (NOT!).
 
Oshun
 



Inauguration '09: G= et complete coverage from the nation's capital. -------------------------------1232390208-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2394 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94538 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 19:09:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 19:09:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 19:09:25 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id n4so632101wag.31 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:09:24 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.148.19 with SMTP id v19mr2289188wad.71.1232392164872; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:09:24 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.114.102.11 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:09:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:09:24 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_17861_17709413.1232392164866" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styl... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=e9d9D8xwQmF-H_4XP8eoqkwSLoAlXUB6S1-MEpS3_iZXsKzbqK2P X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_17861_17709413.1232392164866-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2395 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59377 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 19:10:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 19:10:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 19:10:43 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jan 2009 19:10:43 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jan 2009 19:10:43 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:10:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <155238.61339.qm@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9-9314113857-3775936172=:9" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styles of elves) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=HfOY2oRnvf7E-b-D8iUo9GoMJ4b8N6ZUo8JMtJycd_btWnhg0g_j1G0S X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --9-9314113857-3775936172=:9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Furthermore, Tolkien notes (HoMe, not sure which volume at the moment) tha= t the tales of the Elves (not to mention the Ainulindale which was passed a= long to the Elves from the Valar) we read in the Silmarillion have passed t= hrough filters of Men. So their historical biases are stamped all over it.= All the more reason to approach Tolkien's legendarium as mythology rather= than canonical orthodoxy. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.co= m, CGL wrote: > > > --- Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@... wro= te: > > Interesting points all around. :) To take off from > > your linguis= tic > > perspective with a historical perspective, it makes > > sense, too,= that there > > might be no historical record of poverty, if it > > existed= . The Middle Ages > > were rife with poverty, but it wasn't really > > disc= ussed in the histories or literature > > And the Silmarillion is written ve= ry much like an > abridged history lesson. The stories therein deal > with = the important players: all kings, princes, and > nobles, just as you see in= real-world history. The > average Elf is never mentioned in any detail at = all. > We know they existed, but have absolutely no idea what > life would = be like for them (and only a vaguely better > idea of what life would be li= ke for the nobility). > > I've always maintained that something not being >= mentioned in the texts is not a good reason to assume > it doesn't exist. = Sure, peasant Elves were never > mentioned. But neither was going to the bi= ff, and we > all know that had to happen at some point. > > (Side note: if = anyone wants to argue in favour of > Elves having perfect bodily function a= nd never > expelling waste, I have Tolkien-attested words to > refute that = hypothesis as well.) > > Cheers, > CGL > --9-9314113857-3775936172=:9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Furthermore, Tolkien notes (HoMe, not sure which volume at the moment) t= hat the tales of the Elves (not to mention the Ainulindale which was passed= along to the Elves from the Valar) we read in the Silmarillion have passed= through filters of Men.  So their historical biases are stam= ped all over it.

All the more reason to approach Tolk= ien's legendarium as mythology rather than canonical orthodoxy.


--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, CGL wrote:
>
>
> --- Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@..= . wrote:
> > Interesting points all around. :) To take off from> > your linguistic
> > perspective with a historical persp= ective, it makes
> > sense, too, that there
> > might be = no historical record of poverty, if it
> > existed. The Middle Age= s
> > were rife with poverty, but it wasn't really
> > di= scussed in the histories or literature
>
> And the Silmarilli= on is written very much like an
> abridged history lesson. The storie= s therein deal
> with the important players: all kings, princes, and<= BR>> nobles, just as you see in real-world history. The
> average = Elf is never mentioned in any detail at all.
> We know they existed,= but have absolutely no idea what
> life would be like for them (and = only a vaguely better
> idea of what life would be like for the nobil= ity).
>
> I've always maintained that something not being
&= gt; mentioned in the texts is not a good reason to assume
> it doesn'= t exist. Sure, peasant Elves were never
> mentioned. But neither was = going to the biff, and we
> all know that had to happen at some point= .
>
> (Side note: if anyone wants to argue in favour of
>= ; Elves having perfect bodily function and never
> expelling waste, I= have Tolkien-attested words to
> refute that hypothesis as well.)>
> Cheers,
> CGL
>

--9-9314113857-3775936172=:9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2396 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14004 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 19:11:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 19:11:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.155) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 19:11:05 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so1114929ywm.10 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:11:05 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.15.74 with SMTP id j10mr616725iba.10.1232392265636; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:11:05 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.16.70 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:11:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:11:05 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <155238.61339.qm@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23511_17589303.1232392265628" References: <155238.61339.qm@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styles of elves) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=fMD0AgB1KDGWYs5GkELVyGElMNQhreVNL0nAX5kZkSe4sW7ClYnR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_23511_17589303.1232392265628-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2397 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96495 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 19:22:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 19:22:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.109) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 19:22:49 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 48816 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2009 19:22:48 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Xyefy5oVM1nK5ERKw7jda1U5O6Q0BF3_YIKNqxSIupWSBFtu5fuulL93tKDBbpQKXB_ZUIP_a3cqs8oreupKOiRTkyEz1k7ByI5vPI45RkY8Ns2vTHyma9opnaHp_KFRw2EitG1JFKDHc_aIOO8c88.OO5l6AiPCIb0LJw5ae81nFw-- X-Received: from [70.64.19.221] by web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:22:48 GMT Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:22:48 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <606916.48131.qm@web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Re: Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styl... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=PGxuDobGY7zp8Do_gi2f4qpsn3YWSoSU4KK8zh5dBVSqP2vQAg X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido Oshun wrote: > There was one related to how did > Maedhros eliminate waste > hanging from Thangorodrim and another about how > Morgoth might have sent him > food or, alternatively, can elves exist indefinitely > without eating? Fascinating questions (NOT!). Remember that part in LotR when Frodo and Sam are crossing Mordor and Frodo says something to the effect of all living creatures needing to eat and drink? Elves are living creatures. There you go. (I bet you thought I was going to go on about how there are Elvish words for hunger and thirst now, didn't you?) (Well, there are, in case anyone was wondering.) CGL From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2398 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27337 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 19:30:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 19:30:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 19:30:19 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c22.53468ca0 (41811) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:29:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:29:53 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232393393" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styl... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=1Xfb6pQ1lqrV37332k6XA8Rm54l7V7NrNBa1XVb7E8w0cOzzN_ql X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232393393 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (I bet you thought I was going to go on about how there are Elvish words for hunger and thirst now, didn't you?) Actually, I know you too well. You are too big of a tease to give them up that easily. Since I tend to write my elf stories in a semi-, pseudo-realistic mode, I simply solved the Thrangorodrim problem by assuming that Maedhros hung from the cliffs for a very short period, a matter of days (assuming those times Tolkien gave were simply hypebolic epic storytelling), and when he was rescued he was still quite a mess, flithy, starving and dehydrated. **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) -------------------------------1232393393 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
(I bet you thought I was going to go on abo= ut how
there are Elvish words for hunger and thirst now,
didn't yo= u?)
Actually, I know you too= well. You are too big of a tease to give them up that easily.
=  
Since I tend to write my elf stories in a semi-, pseudo-r= ealistic mode, I simply solved the Thrangorodrim problem by assuming that&= nbsp;Maedhros hung from the cliffs for a very short period, a matter of da= ys (assuming those times Tolkien gave were simply hypebolic epic storytell= ing), and when he was rescued he was still quite a mess, flithy, starving = and dehydrated.



Inauguration '09= : Get complete coverage from the nation's capital.
-------------------------------1232393393-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2399 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45157 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 19:48:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 19:48:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.104) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 19:48:27 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 86751 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2009 19:48:26 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 7tcsXJYVM1lH8zk29W_9oS56AChRYDvSrXtk.3lCcMw1RaadOJvwMJgVZHlRrGHsk.yRP_CJz1iaWu0ss.l1YByP5PClUc1IPB3y_e5CK3ABRBLEaH5fIwC8RQ9sD_pLnv3kDpb4LWEAN1lioZKGrs5eSKw36gClYMPauXp2eGutxc2n7E2j76Sqg5r68A8OIpu0kXX2v2LRdB4- X-Received: from [70.64.19.221] by web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:48:26 GMT Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:48:26 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <462056.84824.qm@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Re: Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styles of elves) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=EBQpch0GmwBtoNKmy07EhuYA75kQs8KYpsH-ubRQCCS9Ir1iCg X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- Dawn Felagund wrote: > I'm not going to make that argument, but I'd be > interested in that information anyway! Parma Eldalamberon No. 12, Page 63: Mukta- verb: to empty the bowels (This would become muhta- in later Quenya with the shift from kt -> ht.) CGL From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2400 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49575 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 19:50:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 19:50:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.28) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 19:50:11 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so1024060yxg.45 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:50:11 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.20.5 with SMTP id d5mr622455ibb.25.1232394610992; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:50:10 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.16.70 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:50:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:50:10 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <462056.84824.qm@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23899_29730139.1232394610983" References: <462056.84824.qm@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styles of elves) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=XWPs6UN402iuVeTennnXWG1QJZ8gi8MQQuar-w_Pux0q2dipKySA X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_23899_29730139.1232394610983-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2401 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75251 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 20:28:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 20:28:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 20:28:29 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1096310400C for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:28:28 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:28:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:28:20 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <156449031.20090119212820@tlen.pl> To: pandemonium_213 In-Reply-To: References: <155238.61339.qm@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?IkFyZGEgUmVjb25zdHJ1Y3RlZDogVGhlIENyZWF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZQ0K?= =?ISO-8859-1?B?IkFyZGEgUmVjb25zdHJ1Y3RlZDogVGhlIENyZWF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBQ?= =?ISO-8859-1?B?dWJsaXNoZWQgU2lsbWFyaWxsaW9uIiBieSBEb3VnbGFzIEthbmUgKHdh?= =?ISO-8859-1?B?czogUG92ZXJ0eSBpbiBBbWFuPyk=?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=Y-uLJcjCm4S3IMcB_3nINDN5IjmFRdXkippz-CfzXyeD6Nyr8Co X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai pandemonium, p> Furthermore, Tolkien notes (HoMe, not sure which volume at the p> moment) that the tales of the Elves (not to mention the Ainulindale p> which was passed along to the Elves from the Valar) we read in the p> Silmarillion have passed through filters of Men.� So their p> historical biases are stamped�all over�it. Plus edition of the texts by Christopher and G. Kay changes a lot either, like stupid words and death of Thingol. Tolkien let him die in a battle outside of Doriath, the ending in teh Silm is insult done to Thingol. Interesting book is coming - "Arda Reconstructed: The Creation of the Published Silmarillion" by Douglas Kane, Lehigh University Press, 2009 - which may clear (and mess ;) ) a lot: "Arda Reconstructed is designed as a companion to The Silmarillion, but the reader should be able to follow along through the text without having to constantly refer back to that work. An abundance of minor edits were made to the source material in creating the published book, but to document each minor edit would serve only to drown the significant changes in insignificant ones, and obscure the patterns of stylistic changes. I have therefore structured the work in the following manner: for each chapter in The Silmarillion (starting with the short separate works the "Ainulindal�" and the "Valaquenta", continuing with the individual chapters of the "Quenta Silmarillion" itself, and concluding with the additional separate works the "Akallab�th" and "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age"), I begin by giving the general construction of the particular chapter from its sources. I then go on to provide descriptive and evaluative commentary on only the significant changes, as well as discussion of some paragraphs with really complex multiple sources. Almost all of the individual chapters also contain a table detailing the major and minor sources for each Silmarillion paragraph. " http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/message/19398 http://forums.theonering.com/viewtopic.php?p=3694033#3694033 (PDF with foreword liked in the above entry) And "Reconstructing Arda: of F�anor and the Unchaining of Melkor" on-line: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0OON/is_/ai_n30956840?tag=artBody;col1 (I'm quoting it all after ML at Polish forums) p> All the more reason to�approach Tolkien's legendarium as p> mythology rather than canonical orthodoxy. That's still a matter of interpretation ;) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2402 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47897 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 21:47:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 21:47:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.28) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 21:47:39 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so1236713yxg.75 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:47:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.10.70 with SMTP id o6mr631850ibo.56.1232401659166; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:47:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.16.70 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:47:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:47:39 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <156449031.20090119212820@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_26423_15215171.1232401659156" References: <155238.61339.qm@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <156449031.20090119212820@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] "Arda Reconstructed: The Creation of the "Arda Reconstructed: The Creation of the Published Silmarillion" by Douglas Kane (was: Poverty in Aman?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=RUwUVMjj0qo3cfcvi-EM5OpK3kHYPhplfCM80luAdnDt1SD2oVcu X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_26423_15215171.1232401659156-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2403 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74506 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 22:39:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 22:39:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s16.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.154) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 22:39:53 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W51 ([65.55.34.136]) by col0-omc3-s16.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:39:53 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_331f969c-263a-48c6-ada9-096e6ba8943b_" To: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:39:53 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2009 22:39:53.0758 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8C22BE0:01C97A86] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Poverty in Aman? (Was: Re: room/house styl... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=qzZBbOuYFDUF8T_kT7u98uOm3kCwk2j_R2HQALPnkHxU5WVRFWlGCg X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_331f969c-263a-48c6-ada9-096e6ba8943b_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.comFrom: heartofoshun@aol.com = Since I tend to write my elf stories in a semi-, pseudo-realistic mode, I= simply solved the Thrangorodrim problem by assuming that Maedhros hung fro= m the cliffs for a very short period, a matter of days (assuming those time= s Tolkien gave were simply hypebolic epic storytelling), and when he was re= scued he was still quite a mess, flithy, starving and dehydrated. The w= ay I solved this was to have Morgoth essentially use magic to sustain him a= s a means of torture. Being an elf newcome from the Undying Lands (blah, b= lah, blah) Maedhros would have taken rather a long time to starve to death.= But yes, elves need to eat (and drink water, certainly). Most people (ev= en stupid, cruel, evil people) are smart enough to feed their prisoners. I= think the orcs in the tower gave Frodo something to drink, at least, and S= auron must have fed Beren and Finrod in his dungeons (even if the elves wer= e just dog food in the end). Your solution works because it isn't entir= ely clear at what time during his imprisonment Morgoth decided to hang him = from the cliff. Sometime after Maglor refused terms, and before the host o= f Fingolfin arrived. MithLuin -* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *- ** *-* |> | |= | |\| *-* ** * * God saw that the light was good, and God separated the li= ght from the darkness. Genesis 1:4Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar= Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello. ____________________________________= _____________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Shar= e. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_W= L_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 --_331f969c-263a-48c6-ada9-096e6ba8943b_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo= groups.com
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
 
 Since I tend to write my elf stories in a= semi-, pseudo-realistic mode, I simply solved the Thrangorodrim problem by= assuming that Maedhros hung from the cliffs for a very short period, = a matter of days (assuming those times Tolkien gave were simply hypebolic e= pic storytelling), and when he was rescued he was still quite a mess, flith= y, starving and dehydrated.
<= /SPAN> 
 
The way I solved this was to have M= orgoth essentially use magic to sustain him as a means of torture.  Be= ing an elf newcome from the Undying Lands (blah, blah, blah) Maedhros would= have taken rather a long time to starve to death.  But yes, elves nee= d to eat (and drink water, certainly).  Most people (even stupid, crue= l, evil people) are smart enough to feed their prisoners.  I think the= orcs in the tower gave Frodo something to drink, at least, and Sauron must= have fed Beren and Finrod in his dungeons (even if the elves were just dog= food in the end). 
 
<= FONT color=3D#000000>Your solution works because it isn't entirely clear at= what time during his imprisonment Morgoth decided to hang him from the cli= ff.  Sometime after Maglor refused terms, and before the host of Fingo= lfin arrived. 
=  
 
MithLuin

-* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *-
*= * *-* |> | | | |\| *-* **
* *

God saw that the light was goo= d, and God separated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4
<= EM>
Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB= i c=E1l=EB i morniello.

Windows Live= =99 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. See how it works. --_331f969c-263a-48c6-ada9-096e6ba8943b_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2404 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75034 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 23:58:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2009 23:58:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 23:58:32 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9AA865F23 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:58:31 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:58:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:58:20 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1682024385.20090120005820@tlen.pl> To: Marie Prosser In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Dates from Grey Annals (Was: Poverty in Aman?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=geM_3niHHGaDpIsWp3vCwh6h5qHr1n2AUCSHRJxnzkSCNxMjAfk X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Marie, I vote for the dark magic involved in torturing Maedhros - he co= uldn't starve to death out of Morgoth's will. MP> it isn't entirely clear= at what time during his imprisonment Morgoth decided to hang him from the = MP> cliff.=A0 Sometime after Maglor refused terms, and before the host MP> = of Fingolfin arrived.=A0 According to the Grey Annals (HoME XI, excerpts)= : - Age of Stars - 1497 Maedhros captured by Morgoth 1498 "Therefore Mo= rgoth took Maidros, and setting a band of hellwrought steel about his = right wrist hung him thereby above a precipice upon the west-tower of T= hangorodrim, where none could reach him. But his brethren drew back and for= tified a great camp in Hithlum." 1500. Fingolfin crossed the grinding ice = of Helkarax=EB "...the ages of the Stars were ended, and the time of the Su= n and Moon was begun, as is told in the Chronicle of Aman." - I Age of Sun= - YS 1. "Here the Moon and the Sun, wrought by the Valar after = the death of the Trees, rose new in the heaven. First the Moon came f= orth, and even as it rose above the darkness in the West Fingolfin le= t blow his silver trumpets, and began his march into Middle-earth; (..= .)Morgoth sent spirits of darkness to assail Tilion, the guardian of = the moon, and there was strife in heaven. But soon after there came th= e first Dawn of the Sun, and it was like a great fire upon the tower= s of the Pelori, and the clouds of Middle-earth were kindled, and a= ll the mists of the world smoked and glowed like gold. Then Fin= golfin unfurled his blue and silver banners, and flowers awoke fr= om the Sleep of Yavanna and sprang up beneath the feet of his host." = (Had to quote that XD) "Then indeed Morgoth was dismayed, and he= descended into the uttermost depths of Angband, and withdrew= his servants, sending forth great reek and dark cloud to hide his = land from the light of the Daystar. Therefore Fingolfin marched from = the North unopposed through the fastness of the realm of Morgoth, a= nd he passed over Dor-Daedeloth, and his foes hid beneath the ear= th; but the Elves smote upon the gates of Angband, and the cha= llenge of their trumpets shook the towers of Thangorodrim. And Maid= ros heard them amid his torment and cried aloud, but his voice was = lost in the echoes of the stone. >From this time are reckoned the Ye= ars of the Sun. Swifter and briefer are they than the long Years of th= e Trees in Valinor. Lo! in that time the growth and the changing= and ageing of all things was hastened exceedingly; and all living = things spread and multiplied in the Second Spring of Arda, and the E= ldar increased, and Beleriand grew green and fair. At the firs= t Sunrise, it is said, Men, the younger children of Iluvatar, awoke in H= ildorien in the midmost regions of the world. The Atani they were name= d; but the Eldar called them also the Hildi, the Followers." YS 2. "Now = Fingolfin, being of other temper than Feanor, and wary of the wil= es of Morgoth, after sounding his challenge withdrew from Dor-Daed= eloth and turned towards Mithrim, for he had heard tidings that ther= e he should find the sons of Feanor, and he desired also to have the sh= ield of the mountains, while his folk rested and grew strong; for h= e had seen the strength of Angband and deemed not that it would fall = to the sound of trumpets only. Therefore coming at length to Hithlum = he made his first camp and dwelling by the north-shore of Lake Mithrim= . (...)Thus because of the curse that lay on them the Noldor achieved = nothing, while Morgoth was dismayed and his servants still cowed by = the sudden light. And Morgoth let make vast smokes and vapours in the = pits of Angband, and they came forth from the reeking tops of the Iron = Mountains, and the east wind bore them over Hithlum and darkened t= he new sun, and they fell, coiling about field and hollow, and lying = upon the waters of Mithrim, drear and poisonous." YS 5. Fingon "dared a= deed which is justly renowned among the feats of the princes of the No= ldor: alone, and without the counsel of any, he set forth in search of = Maidros; and aided bythevery darkness that Morgoth had made he came unseen = into the fastness of his foes. In the Quenta it is told how at the last h= e found Maidros, by singing a song of Valinor alone in the dark mounta= ins, and was aided by Thorondor the Eagle, who bore him aloft unt= o Maidros; but the bond of steel he could in no wise release and = must sever the hand that it held. Thus he rescued his friend of old= from torment, and their love was renewed; and the hatred between = the houses of Fingolfin and Feanor was assuaged. Thereafter Maidr= os wielded his sword in his left hand." The exact dates are given - hang= ed in 1498, rescued in the 5th year of sun. I may be wrong, but I do not c= ount years of stars into sun years - time started running faster after the= Sun appeared and flows different in Aman and in ME, but before that it wa= s the same everywhere. Valian years under the Sun should be counted to com= pare teh same "moment" in Aman and Beleriand. So, I take 7 years for Maed= hros on Thangorodrim. Only now I see the first dark cloud came out of Than= gorodrim right away, I must verify it in another discussion somewhere else= . In the end it looks like Maedhros had no chance to get sun burns. It d= oesn't mean one can not reinterpret it in their own fan fiction / vision o= f Arda. Finding out facts, discussing what the sources say or might be say= ing vs recreating them in ones own creations are different things. I feel = it's often taken as one at SWG. Suilad, Sirielle = sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.or= g From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2405 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50799 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 00:19:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 00:19:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 00:19:20 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c02.5062fb5e (41811) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:19:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:19:15 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232410755" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Dates from Grey Annals (Was: Poverty in Aman?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=uwP9Xt0ccb2G9FAmYP-fVADTzZ_ArRgff7osiUHUpfyp97AVo9l7 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232410755 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Finding out facts, discussing what the sources say or might be saying vs recreating them in ones own creations are different things. I feel it's often taken as one at SWG. How one talks about these questions, depends on what one is discussing. Most of the time when I am discussing them I am talking about writing fiction based loosely upon canon facts and creating a coherent, recognizable but completely independent piece of work. I also write nonfiction based upon Tolkien's texts. Those two types of work are completely different in my mind. Studying Tolkien's work is scholarship, with perhaps a tiny bit of room for personal reaction, clearly identified as that and not fact, or the occasional comparison to other literary traditions. Fanfiction to me is FICTION, invented, personal, MINE. It does not mean that I do not have my own particular very favorite parts of canon that I really insist upon interpreting strictly and other parts I feel free or even eager to ignore. It is no different than you chosing to paint Maedhros with bright fire-engine red hair when canon strictly interpreted would more like indicate that it is acually closer to what is normally called auburn in English. To me there is no right or wrong in what I chose to use in my fanfiction and what I chose to alter or ignore. My experience has been that book-based fanfiction for many other people is considered valid only if it adheres as strictly as possible to a proofs from the canon texts. I have found that the SWG is extremely tolerant and welcoming of creativity in the use of sources, while I have simultaneously found the most knowledge students of Tolkien's work among the writers there. **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) -------------------------------1232410755 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Finding out facts,
discussing what the sou= rces say or might be saying vs recreating them
in ones own creations = are different things. I feel it's often taken
as one at SWG.
How one talks about these questions,= depends on what one is discussing. Most of the time when I am discus= sing them I am talking about writing fiction based loosel= y upon canon facts and creating a coherent, recognizable but complete= ly independent piece of work.
 
I also write nonfiction based upon Tolkien's texts. Those two types = of work are completely different in my mind. Studying Tolkien's work = is scholarship, with perhaps a tiny bit of room for personal reaction= , clearly identified as that and not fact, or the occasional comparis= on to other literary traditions.
 
Fanfiction t= o me is FICTION, invented, personal, MINE. It does not mean that = I do not have my own particular very favorite parts of canon that I really= insist upon interpreting strictly and other parts I feel free or even eag= er to ignore. It is no different than you chosing to paint Maedhros with b= right fire-engine red hair when canon strictly interpreted would more like = indicate that it is acually closer to what is normally called auburn in En= glish. To me there is no right or wrong in what I chose to use in my fanfi= ction and what I chose to alter or ignore.

My experience has been t= hat book-based fanfiction for many other people is considered valid o= nly if it adheres as strictly as possible to a proofs from the c= anon texts. I have found that the SWG is extremely tolerant and welcoming = of creativity in the use of sources, while I have simultaneously found the= most knowledge students of Tolkien's work among the writers there.
=


Inauguration '09: Get = complete coverage from the nation's capital.
= -------------------------------1232410755-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2406 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24921 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 00:35:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 00:35:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 00:35:49 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2009 00:35:49 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.228] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2009 00:35:49 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:35:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="6-9314297205-2796050179=:4" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: "Arda Reconstructed: The Creation of the "Arda Reconstructed: The Creation o X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=Z1BGuWCu32t3453Z4Fdf_0_bhXJA0PE2ZVVSGx5fsUNH4rMjdJqVTsak X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --6-9314297205-2796050179=:4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My apologies for replying to Sirielle here, but something is bebuggered in = the linkage to her post. But it's not entirely irrelevant to this one. ;^)= >> All the more reason to approach Tolkien's legendarium as >> mythology= rather than canonical orthodoxy. >That's still a matter of interpretatio= n ;) Spoken like a true artist! :^D I'm very much taken by Tolkien's conc= ept of mythopoeia and his brilliant use of mythological themes and archetyp= es to create a mythology. Mythology is in our primary world is quite fluid= , e.g., differing versions of tales from Greek, Egyptian and other mytholog= ies, and the Tolkien legendarium taken as a whole -- and viewed with Tolkie= n's conceit that this is a history recorded by others (also a brilliant dev= ice of the original author which plays into the mythological concept) -- ha= s a lot of parallels with these. Fascinating stuff really. I have threate= ned Dawn with writing a piece on Tolkien as mythology from a fan fic writer= 's viewpoint and will post it on Heretic Loremaster one of these days. Yes,= one of these days. ;^) I have heard of Mr. Kane's book (he posts as "Vor= onw=EB" on the OneRing.net and has talked about it) but I'll reserve judgme= nt on it. It could be potentially interesting and a useful resource (not u= nlike Scull and Hammond's Companion to the LotR). I am hoping it will not = be one more of a line of publications that sneak in meta-analysis of Tolkie= n's works. Certain literary codifications makes me squirm, not unlike some= one putting me in front of a painting or a statue and then telling me "Now = this is exactly how I want you to view this work of art" as opposed to allo= wing my own perceptions to process what I am seeing and experiencing. O= n Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Sirielle wrote: Ai= pandemonium, p> Furthermore, Tolkien notes (HoMe, not sure which vol= ume at the p> moment) that the tales of the Elves (not to mention the = Ainulindale p> which was passed along to the Elves from the Valar) we = read in the p> Silmarillion have passed through filters of Men. So th= eir p> historical biases are stamped all over it. Plus edition o= f the texts by Christopher and G. Kay changes a lot either, like stupi= d words and death of Thingol. Tolkien let him die in a battle outside = of Doriath, the ending in teh Silm is insult done to Thingol. Interes= ting book is coming - "Arda Reconstructed: The Creation of the Publish= ed Silmarillion" by Douglas Kane, Lehigh University Press, 2009 - whic= h may clear (and mess ;) ) a lot: "Arda Reconstructed is designed as = a companion to The Silmarillion, but the reader should be able to foll= ow along through the text without having to constantly refer back to t= hat work. An abundance of minor edits were made to the source material= in creating the published book, but to document each minor edit would= serve only to drown the significant changes in insignificant ones, an= d obscure the patterns of stylistic changes. I have therefore structur= ed the work in the following manner: for each chapter in The Silmarill= ion (starting with the short separate works the "Ainulindal=EB" and th= e "Valaquenta", continuing with the individual chapters of the "Quenta= Silmarillion" itself, and concluding with the additional separate wor= ks the "Akallab=EAth" and "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age"), = I begin by giving the general construction of the particular chapter f= rom its sources. I then go on to provide descriptive and evaluative co= mmentary on only the significant changes, as well as discussion of som= e paragraphs with really complex multiple sources. Almost all of the = individual chapters also contain a table detailing the major and minor = sources for each Silmarillion paragraph. " http://groups.yahoo.co= m/group/mythsoc/message/19398 http://forums.theonering.com/viewtopic.p= hp?p=3D3694033#3694033 (PDF with foreword liked in the above entry) = And "Reconstructing Arda: of F=EBanor and the Unchaining of Melkor" on-l= ine: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0OON/is_/ai_n30956840?tag= =3DartBody\ ;col1 (I'm quoting it all after ML at Polish forums) ---= In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > MithLuin had mentioned this forthcoming book in a comment = on my blog. I'm > excited about it! A lot of what the author has done I hav= e been trying to > do, piecemeal, as part of my own research, but it is soo= ooo tedious; I > wouldn't mind having a handy guide (provided it proves rel= iable. That > remains to be seen and is my only misgiving, but I'm staying = optimistic > until proven otherwise.) > > Thanks for the info, Sirielle! :)= > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org= > --6-9314297205-2796050179=:4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My apologies for replying to Sirielle here, but something is bebuggered in = the linkage to her post.  But it's not entirely irrelevant to this one= . ;^)


>> All the more reason to approach Tolkien's legenda= rium as
>> mythology rather than canonical orthodoxy.


&= gt;That's still a matter of interpretation ;)

Spoken like a true art= ist! :^D

I'm very much taken by Tolkien's concept of mythopoeia and his brilliant use of mythological themes and archetypes to create a = mythology.  Mythology is in our primary world is quite fluid, e.g., di= ffering versions of tales from Greek, Egyptian and other mythologies, and t= he Tolkien legendarium taken as a whole -- and viewed with Tolkien's concei= t that this is a history recorded by others (also a brilliant device of the= original author which plays into the mythological concept) -- has a lot of= parallels with these.  Fascinating stuff really.  I have threate= ned Dawn with writing a piece on Tolkien as mythology from a fan fic writer= 's viewpoint and will post it on Heretic Loremaster one of these days. Yes,= one of these days.  ;^)  

I have heard of Mr. Kane'= s book (he posts as "Voronw=EB" on the OneRing.net and has talked about it)= but I'll reserve judgment on it.  It could be potentially interesting= and a useful resource (not unlike Scull and Hammond's Companion to the Lot= R). I am hoping it  will not be one more of a line of publications tha= t sneak in meta-analysis of Tolkien's works.  Certain literary codific= ations makes me squirm, not unlike someone putting me in front of a paintin= g or a statue and then telling me "Now this is exactly how I = want you to view this work of art" as opposed to allowing my own per= ceptions to process what I am seeing and experiencing. 



On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Sirielle wr= ote:

    Ai pandemonium,

    p&= gt; Furthermore, Tolkien notes (HoMe, not sure which volume at the
 = ;   p> moment) that the tales of the Elves (not to mention the= Ainulindale
    p> which was passed along to the Elve= s from the Valar) we read in the
    p> Silmarillion h= ave passed through filters of Men.  So their
    p&g= t; historical biases are stamped all over it.

    Plu= s edition of the texts by Christopher and G. Kay changes a lot
 &nb= sp;  either, like stupid words and death of Thingol. Tolkien let him d= ie in
    a battle outside of Doriath, the ending in teh = Silm is insult done to Thingol.

    Interesting book = is coming - "Arda Reconstructed: The Creation of the
    = Published Silmarillion" by Douglas Kane,
    Lehigh Unive= rsity Press, 2009 - which may clear (and mess ;) ) a lot:

 &nbs= p;  "Arda Reconstructed is designed as a companion to The Silmarillion= ,
    but the reader should be able to follow along throu= gh the text without
    having to constantly refer back t= o that work. An abundance of minor
    edits were made to= the source material in creating the published book,
    = but to document each minor edit would serve only to drown the
 &nbs= p;  significant changes in insignificant ones, and obscure the pattern= s of
    stylistic changes. I have therefore structured t= he work in the
    following manner: for each chapter in = The Silmarillion (starting with
    the short separate wo= rks the "Ainulindal=EB" and the "Valaquenta",
    continu= ing with the individual chapters of the "Quenta Silmarillion"
 &nbs= p;  itself, and concluding with the additional separate works the
&= nbsp;   "Akallab=EAth" and "Of the Rings of Power and the Third A= ge"), I begin
    by giving the general construction of t= he particular chapter from its
    sources. I then go on = to provide descriptive and evaluative commentary
    on o= nly the significant changes, as well as discussion of some
  &= nbsp; paragraphs with really complex multiple sources. Almost all of the    individual chapters also contain a table detailing the = major and minor
    sources for each Silmarillion paragra= ph. "
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/message/1= 9398
    http://forums.theonering.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D3= 694033#3694033
    (PDF with foreword liked in the above = entry)
    And "Reconstructing Arda: of F=EBanor and the = Unchaining of Melkor" on-line:
    http://findarticles.co= m/p/articles/mi_m0OON/is_/ai_n30956840?tag=3DartBody;col1
  &n= bsp; (I'm quoting it all after ML at Polish forums)


--- In Silma= rillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" >
> MithLuin had mentioned this forthcoming book in a= comment on my blog. I'm
> excited about it! A lot of what the author= has done I have been trying to
> do, piecemeal, as part of my own re= search, but it is sooooo tedious; I
> wouldn't mind having a handy gu= ide (provided it proves reliable. That
> remains to be seen and is my= only misgiving, but I'm staying optimistic
> until proven otherwise.= )
>
> Thanks for the info, Sirielle! :)
>
> Dawn<= br>>
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org
>
--6-9314297205-2796050179=:4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2407 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49938 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 01:26:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 01:26:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.28) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 01:26:00 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so1439329yxj.11 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:26:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.15.205 with SMTP id l13mr654647iba.7.1232414759643; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:25:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.16.70 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:25:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:25:59 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1682024385.20090120005820@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_29661_21781191.1232414759633" References: <1682024385.20090120005820@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Dates from Grey Annals (Was: Poverty in Aman?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=boSgtf0ThNebEGceGoo5rcad7yxpQT-W0-LNrOBfyQ3SM070HcML X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_29661_21781191.1232414759633-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2408 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72261 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 01:37:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 01:37:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 01:37:07 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.cd5.45e5ffe8 (41811) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:37:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:37:02 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232415422" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Dates from Grey Annals (Was: Poverty in Aman?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=beLciF8T1uOLwwhw4KhZ0wqJJ9NkQF1H4Q3nf0EwxXcxP-D9TQJT X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232415422 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some thoughts on the timelines in Tolkien's works ... What is so difficult about simply considering these numbers in light of the longstanding traditions of epic storytelling? This is not history. I feel sometimes like I am discussing these questions with followers of fundamentalist religious sects in the U.S. who insist that every word in the Bible is history (apologies if I stepped on any toes there!). I need to only know these numbers for a line-by-line analysis of the text. I do not need them to tell a story, anymore than I need to know if Maedhros had freckles. My answer to that would be: if you want him to have freckles, give him freckles. If you want him to have flawless, unmarked skin, I'll buy that too. **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) -------------------------------1232415422 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Some thoughts on the timelines in Tolkien's= works ...
What is so difficult = about simply considering these numbers in light of the longstanding tradit= ions of epic storytelling? This is not history. I feel sometimes like I am= discussing these questions with followers of fundamentalist religiou= s sects in the U.S. who insist that every word in the Bible is history (ap= ologies if I stepped on any toes there!).

I need to only know thes= e numbers for a line-by-line analysis of the text. I do not need them to t= ell a story, anymore than I need to know if Maedhros had freckles. My answ= er to that would be: if you want him to have freckles, give him freckles. I= f you want him to have flawless, unmarked skin, I'll buy that too.
<= /FONT>


Inauguration '09: Get = complete coverage from the nation's capital.
= -------------------------------1232415422-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2409 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96913 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 01:45:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 01:45:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s2.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.140) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 01:45:53 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W65 ([65.55.34.135]) by col0-omc3-s2.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:45:54 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_b8795f5b-c763-41bd-94df-2a84e1a29bf9_" To: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:45:53 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jan 2009 01:45:54.0142 (UTC) FILETIME=[D4DD9FE0:01C97AA0] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Dates from Grey Annals (Was: Poverty in Aman?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=Y1aek2mpoSnbrh_I5AcPJwQXc6sAwq3AR9iAw4R0PCufq9HYkld-Dg X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_b8795f5b-c763-41bd-94df-2a84e1a29bf9_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.comFrom: heartofoshun@aol.comDa= te: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:37:02 -0500Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] = Dates from Grey Annals (Was: Poverty in Aman?) Some thoughts on the time= lines in Tolkien's works ... What is so difficult about simply considering= these numbers in light of the longstanding traditions of epic storytelling= ? This is not history. I feel sometimes like I am discussing these question= s with followers of fundamentalist religious sects in the U.S. who insist t= hat every word in the Bible is history (apologies if I stepped on any toes = there!). I need to only know these numbers for a line-by-line analysis of t= he text. I do not need them to tell a story, anymore than I need to know if= Maedhros had freckles. My answer to that would be: if you want him to have= freckles, give him freckles. If you want him to have flawless, unmarked sk= in, I'll buy that too. Exactly. Story-wise, Maedhros heard the host of Fin= golfin march to Thangorodrim. So, he was on the cliff then. Whether that = had been weeks or years isn't really as important....to the story. If you = treat it as a history, then you have to pay attention to dates, and make so= me choices. But if you are writing a story - you are allowed to say that i= t isn't important. MithLuin -* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *- ** *-* |> | | |= |\| *-* ** * * God saw that the light was good, and God separated the ligh= t from the darkness. Genesis 1:4Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar E= ru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello. ______________________________________= ___________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http:/= /windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 --_b8795f5b-c763-41bd-94df-2a84e1a29bf9_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo= groups.com
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:37:02= -0500
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Dates from Grey Annals (W= as: Poverty in Aman?)

 
Some th= oughts on the timelines in Tolkien's works ...
What is so difficult about simply considering these numbers = in light of the longstanding traditions of epic storytelling? This is not h= istory. I feel sometimes like I am discussing these questions with fol= lowers of fundamentalist religious sects in the U.S. who insist that every = word in the Bible is history (apologies if I stepped on any toes there!). <= BR>
I need to only know these numbers for a line-by-line analysis of the= text. I do not need them to tell a story, anymore than I need to know if M= aedhros had freckles. My answer to that would be: if you want him to have f= reckles, give him freckles. If you want him to have flawless, unmarked skin= , I'll buy that too.

Exactly.  Story-wise, Maedhr= os heard the host of Fingolfin march to Thangorodrim.  So, he was on t= he cliff then.  Whether that had been weeks or years isn't really as i= mportant....to the story.  If you treat it as a history, then you= have to pay attention to dates, and make some choices.  But if you ar= e writing a story - you are allowed to say that it isn't important.  <= BR>  
MithLuin 

-* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *-
** = *-* |> | | | |\| *-* **
* *

God saw that the light was good,= and God separated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4

Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i= c=E1l=EB i morniello.

Windows Live=99: Keep your l= ife in sync. Check it out. --_b8795f5b-c763-41bd-94df-2a84e1a29bf9_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2410 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4744 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 01:52:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 01:52:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.152) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 01:52:59 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 36so1242248yxh.28 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:52:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.16.74 with SMTP id n10mr30974iba.44.1232416378422; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:52:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.16.70 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:52:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:52:58 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_30010_3637411.1232416378415" References: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Dates from Grey Annals (Was: Poverty in Aman?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=WOHoqsvjw81uA4aJlxTfNFlhD_EBkOjsYLKsVTBbSAFu1RrUk3wI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_30010_3637411.1232416378415-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2411 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23708 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 01:53:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 01:53:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 01:53:37 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.ce7.44c9ffb8 (41811) for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:53:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:53:27 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232416407" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Dates from Grey Annals (Was: Poverty in Aman?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=8_v_oDxkS3qbc9IfQcramoT4kGlobeEOZ34QaFqOav20KAj9ux8C X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232416407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excellent points, Mithluin. If you treat it as a history, then you have to pay attention to dates, and make some choices. But if you are writing a story - you are allowed to say that it isn't important. I agree that one could also write it as though one were writing the epic history, which for me personaly might preclude the extremely modern vocabularly choices I make and speech cadences I use, the forms of psychological observations, and type of characterization common to the modern novel, etc., etc. I trust other writers to make their own decisions about how the want to tell a story. They can write it in iambic pentameter verse as far as I am concerned. I will be thrilled to take a look at the piece and see if I enjoy reading it. I would not dream of telling them it shouldn't be done. **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) -------------------------------1232416407 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Excellent p= oints, Mithluin.
If you treat it a= s a history, then you have to pay attention to dates, and make some choi= ces.  But if you are writing a story - you are allowed to say that = it isn't important. 
I= agree that one could also write it as though one were writing the epic hi= story, which for me personaly might preclude the extremely modern voc= abularly choices I make and speech cadences I use, the forms of psych= ological observations, and type of characterization common to the modern n= ovel, etc., etc.
 
I trust other writers to mak= e their own decisions about how the want to tell a story. They can write i= t in iambic pentameter verse as far as I am concerned. I will be thri= lled to take a look at the piece and see if I enjoy reading it. I would no= t dream of telling them it shouldn't be done.



=
Inauguration '09: Get complete co= verage from the nation's capital.
-------------------------------1232416407-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2412 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55224 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 05:38:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 05:38:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 05:38:17 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5293D104006 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:38:16 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:38:13 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:38:13 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1435854017.20090120063813@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Misunderstandings & red hair (was: dates ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=D3FYLN8U2C6-3QZGBjvAAN1qTCXdk3lbektWFoVGoXN1s96ykdI X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, >> Finding out facts, >> discussing what the sources say or might be saying vs recreating them >> in ones own creations are different things. I feel it's often taken >> as one at SWG. I see this wasn't clear. hac> How one talks about these questions, depends on what one is hac> discussing. When question is about a fact in JRRT texts, than it's exactly about that fact, not about it's opposition to stories by this or the other author. That's the way I see it. In this very example I didn't criticize your fanfiction interpretation, but answered to MithLuin's statement: "it isn't entirely clear at what time during his imprisonment Morgoth decided to hang him from the cliff." But I knew you'll feel it was attack at your story, thus I gave the extra warning quoted above. I wrote to you a personal message earlier on that either, which ended "Of course interpretation for fan fiction is possible, I do not question that." I thought my intentions were clear. On the other hand we've got a proverb that overzealousness is worse than fascism. I should not give any information unless someone is explicitly asking for it. hac> How one talks about these questions, depends on what one is hac> discussing. Most of the time when�I am discussing them I am hac> talking about writing fiction based loosely upon canon facts hac> and�creating a coherent, recognizable but completely independent hac> piece of work. You are talking about writing fan fiction, I am generally talking about source texts and interpretation of their content. Not about writing. hac> I also write nonfiction�based upon Tolkien's texts. Those hac> two types of work are�completely different in my mind. As they are in mine, but when in discussions people start from point of view based on their fan fiction and get into defensive mood it's impossible to discuss facts. I don't want to point if those facts I ask about are present in one's fan fiction, I'm curious if they are in Tolkien's writing (unless stated explicitly that I ask about a certain story, this could happen, too). hac> Studying Tolkien's work is scholarship, with perhaps a�tiny bit of room hac> for personal reaction, clearly identified as that and not hac> fact,�or the occasional comparison to other literary traditions. That's why I wrote the statement from the first quotation. I always try to discuss things to find out what is in the books and how to understand it in the first place. Facts and their interpretation. My own vision of the world will be secondary in such discussion, as it will never be objective and bears elements of recreation. A possible fan fiction - rightful recreation - could come in the end as least important while discussing the books and could be totally different from both the facts and my interpretation of them: Source: "Osse, the servant of Ulmo". My interpretation - Osse is subordinate of Ulmo. Fanfiction: 'Osse works for loads of Valian money Ulmo pays him.' I may not always be clear, maybe thus answers in defensive mood happen. But it almost never happens outside of SWG, though I usually don't post in writers communities which may be a factor. hac> It does not mean that I do not have my own particular very favorite hac> parts of canon that I really insist upon interpreting strictly hac> and other parts I feel free or even eager to ignore. That's what most of us do. It doesn't mean I will not discuss stuff I ignore, I want to know what Tolkien said first. In this case the "Holy Bible", as you put it in the other letter, matters to me more than any recreation based on it. hac> It is no different than you chosing to paint Maedhros with bright hac> fire-engine red hair when canon strictly interpreted would more hac> like indicate that it is acually closer to what is normally hac> called auburn in English. Side discussion, (yes, I understand you just wanted a comparable example). If Tolkien ever decided if he wants "auburn", "russet" or "copper" hair things would be easier. "Red" alone is too general (and brings to my mind light red hair right away). "Copper" hair colour is much lighter than "auburn", which is on a border of brown, isn't it? Translator gives me "chestnut" for "auburn", which is a variation of brown to me. Yet red is not brown. Copper? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Woman_redhead_natural_portait_1.jpg Auburn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auburn_(color) I feel "copper" appears more often in texts and is less common colour in nature than auburn; red hair of Feanorians meant to be really rare thing so it would be suitable. Then again young red heads could have copper hair and get auburn with age (safe the younger twin who stays with lighter hair according to the texts). Anyway in the end my final colour choice is a matter of other factors and the result is altered by different screen settings of all of us. hac> To me there is no right or wrong in what I chose to use in my fanfiction and what I chose to alter hac> or ignore. Now this is a very good example of what I was referring to. I do not try to discuss here if somebody's fanfiction choices are right or wrong, only what the books say. I may disagree with somebody's reinterpretation of a fact, but do not dictate what it should look like in their fan fiction. Maybe I'm too dummy to better articulate what I want to say. Maybe authors are too touchy. Probably both. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2413 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53525 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 06:53:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 06:53:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 06:53:41 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.ce9.4a765acf (41811) for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:53:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:53:39 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232434419" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Misunderstandings & red hair (was: dates ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Sn_QrkQJ5KJRZQWdnf56MKvR1_sG1iGMGgijs-7-vVy_ccNkISQN X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232434419 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm permanently defensive I guess. In my very first encounters with fanfiction I was told that I was lax and careless with canon, when even then I knew the canon as well as most of my critics. And that was in a setting where The Silmarillion and HoMe and other writings were not considered true canon, only The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, as a matter of fact. I am not and never have been lax about canon knowledge, in fact. My attitude has always been: know it before you change it. I tend to spend a great deal of time on canon, part of the reason I write so slowly. But I am also quite free at making creative and selective decisions about how to use the original texts in my own writing. You are right that on these threads, I always assume we are talking about writing. This particular thread began with Tinni raising an objection relating to how number of Silmarillion writers interpreted settings, in particular housing and housekeeping, in their stories, if I am recalling the beginning correctly. I think that is where the misunderstandings started. I assumed the discussion was still about the appropriate or inappropriate use of the original source material in one's writing and differences of interpretation based upon varying academic prejudices and fields of study, not to mention personal experience and cultural bias as possible influences (references to suburban living in cultures where people are unaccustomed to household help, for example was raised). I was not being scientific either about subtlties of possible definitions of the color auburn (which I understand to be a reddish brown) in Polish vs. English in reference to hair color. My only point was that the color of hair in some of your art work, of which I am a huge fan, does not exist in nature and was unlikely to have existed in Tolkien's head, in the exact same way that some of the interpretations of events related to characters in my fiction will not be found in Tolkien's books or defensible based narrowly upon them. I would presume that the sophisticated reader would read my work and see that my departures are not based upon ignorance of the original but artistic choice, the same as your choice of paint color. (Sorry, I did not receive the personal email you refer to? Maybe it went amiss? Or maybe I missed it somehow. I have been sick with a cold and flu and not operating very well. I currently have no unopened emails.) I am not at all inclined to discuss exact canon cites informally in email threads like this one. I would have to stop everything, pull out all my books, refer to numerous contrasting and contradictory sources, throughout HoMe and other books, and come up with a series of exact citations and cross-references, which is not what I do when I respond to these emails. I was speaking in generalities here and not of specifics very deliberately. I was talking not about facts at all but about my attitude toward using canon in my own writing. I actually thought introducing facts was clouding the issue (therefore, I reacted to one of Dawn's comments, who apparently understood the direction the discussion was taking better than I did, so I probably owe her an apology also). I tried to prevent the discussion from turning into something that seemed to me to be akin to a bunch of Talmudic scholars arguing about text, instead of about inspiration and creativity, which is what I had thought it was about. I am truly sorry if I seem argumentative or unpleasant. That was not my intent. I do not think you and I necessarily have a disagreement per se, but a difference of understanding as to the nature of the discussion. I am sorry, really sincerely sorry to have upset you or reinforced negative feelings you had about discussing such questions with me. I will read such discussion threads more carefully and slowly in the future and either comment more judiciously or abstain if I am not interested in the direction of the discussion. Oshun **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) -------------------------------1232434419 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I'm permanently d= efensive I guess. In my very first encounters with fanfiction I was t= old that I was lax and careless with canon, when even then I knew the cano= n as well as most of my critics. And that was in a setting where The S= ilmarillion and HoMe and other writings were not considered = true canon, only The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, a= s a matter of fact.
 
I am not and never have be= en lax about canon knowledge, in fact. My attitude has always been: know i= t before you change it. I tend to spend a great deal of time on = canon, part of the reason I write so slowly. But I am also quite free= at making creative and selective decisions about how to use the= original texts in my own writing. You are right that on these thread= s, I always assume we are talking about writing. This particular= thread began with Tinni raising an objection relating to how number = of Silmarillion writers interpreted settings, in particular housing and ho= usekeeping, in their stories, if I am recalling the beginning correctly. <= BR>
I think that is where the misunderstandings started. I assumed the = discussion was still about the appropriate or inappropriate use of the ori= ginal source material in one's writing and differences of interpretation b= ased upon varying academic prejudices and fields of study, not to mention = personal experience and cultural bias as possible influences (references to= suburban living in cultures where people are unaccustomed to household he= lp, for example was raised).
 
I was not being= scientific either about subtlties of possible definitions of the col= or auburn (which I understand to be a reddish brown) in Polish v= s. English in reference to hair color. My only point was th= at the color of hair in some of your art work, of which I am a huge fan, d= oes not exist in nature and was unlikely to have existed in Tolkien's head= , in the exact same way that some of the interpretations of events re= lated to characters in my fiction will not be found in Tolkien's= books or defensible based narrowly upon them. I would presume that the so= phisticated reader would read my work and see that my departures are not b= ased upon ignorance of the original but artistic choice, the same as your = choice of paint color.
 
(Sorry, I did not recei= ve the personal email you refer to? Maybe it went amiss? Or maybe I missed= it somehow. I have been sick with a cold and flu and not operating very w= ell. I currently have no unopened emails.)
 
I&n= bsp;am not at all inclined to discuss exact canon cites informally in emai= l threads like this one. I would have to stop everything, pull out all my&= nbsp;books, refer to numerous contrasting and contradictory sources, = throughout HoMe and other books, and come up with a series of exact citatio= ns and cross-references, which is not what I do when I respond to these em= ails.
 
I was speaking in generalities he= re and not of specifics very deliberately. I was talking not about fa= cts at all but about my attitude toward using canon in my own wri= ting. I actually thought introducing facts was clouding the issue= (therefore, I reacted to one of Dawn's comments, who apparently understoo= d the direction the discussion was taking better than I did, so I probably= owe her an apology also). I tried to prevent the discussion from tur= ning into something that seemed to me to be akin to a bunch of Talmudic sc= holars arguing about text, instead of about inspiration and creativity, wh= ich is what I had thought it was about.
 
I am t= ruly sorry if I seem argumentative or unpleasant. That was not my intent. = I do not think you and I necessarily have a disagreement per se,= but a difference of understanding as to the nature of the discu= ssion. I am sorry, really sincerely sorry to have upset you or reinforced = negative feelings you had about discussing such questions with me. &nb= sp;I will read such discussion threads more carefully and slowly in t= he future and either comment more judiciously or abstain if I am not = interested in the direction of the discussion.
 
Oshun



Inauguration '09: G= et complete coverage from the nation's capital. -------------------------------1232434419-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2414 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56457 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 07:23:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 07:23:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 07:23:39 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AADE104007 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:23:38 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:23:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:23:35 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <743325429.20090120082335@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <1682024385.20090120005820@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Dates from Grey Annals (Was: Poverty in Aman?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=RseXQcXoWjpxyFldWyx10iDh1y1sRyMOYwEQZAOM0GH8AcLAj48 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> A Year of the Trees roughly equals ten Years of the Sun, so DF> the figures in GA actually indicate that Maedhros was on DF> Thangorodrim for twenty-five years! (That is where that very DF> popular figure comes from: 2 YT + 5 YS = 20 YS + 5YS = 25 YS.) The time concept is a neverending discussion. To mess it more (from wikipedia, but that's accurate): "In the 1930s and 40s Tolkien used a figure which fluctuated slightly around ten before settling on approximately 9.58 solar years in each Valian year. However, in the 1950s Tolkien decided to use a much greater value of 144 solar years per Valian year, and included this figure in The Lord of the Rings appendices as the length of the elven year (the yen)." Yen might be a concept for the unfinished Arda Rounded legendary, 9.58 for the older concept of Arda Flat. Still I see no point to count years under the stars into years of Sun. Time started running faster after the Sun appeared and since then the Eldar in ME felt the decay and dying more painfully. The real difference is between Beleriand and Aman, where time still runs peacefully and feeling of ageing doesn't hurt. There only counting is useful and necessary. To me the difference comes in feeling the passage of time. Year in Beleriand was still a year, but time passage now became annoying, bringing feelings of world ageing, decaying totally unknown to Aman elves and much sharper now to Beleriand ones. I don't know if JRRT would agree with my interpretation. Anyway that's why I count only 7 years for Maedhros on Thangorodrim and it's still too much to bear without a supernatural intervention. DF> My point in all of this is that I don't think that GA can DF> count as solid, factual "canon" Do we have any better? DF> With publication, we can assume a degree of finality that we simply DF> can't with the HoMe, or even the Silm. I would say opposite - with the Silm, or even the HoME. HoME presents the original texts altered to fit the Silmarillion. Silmarillion contains a bit of pure additions by editors. But that's another discussion I'm not ready for. We'll see if Douglas Kane will clear anything in this matter. DF> To complicate estimations further, presumably, it was DF> Maedhros who provided testament to how long he was on DF> Thangorodrim. There were no other witnesses; Good point. DF> We know the stars would have been difficult--if not impossible--to DF> see from Thangorodrim. Morgoth released dark clouds to cover his land after the Sun appeared (according to the doubtful annals, that is), so the stars would be visible from Maedhros location, but I doubt he was conscious enough to use them. Maybe it wasn't only him as the source - speculations: - Morgoth informs Maedhros he is sending messengers to Maglor for the last time - the messengers inform that Melkor asks for the last time Feanorians to obey him, if not he will punish their king - Maglor says 'no', messengers never come back again - (Maedhros ends on Thangorodrim) - Fingon rescues Maedhros - in discussion brothers state the moment messengers came back to Angband could be the valid date when Maedhros ended up on Thangorodrim Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2415 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25919 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 08:57:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 08:57:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 08:57:53 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A7C710404E for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:57:52 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:57:52 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:57:52 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <754184277.20090120095752@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Misunderstandings & red hair (was: dates ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=NgzU5iJ73NrcSnVAd7oMoMebBzMYJTC8GM3a1vLs3EtGXT887yw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> This particular thread began with Tinni raising an objection relating to hac> how�number of Silmarillion writers interpreted settings, in hac> particular housing and housekeeping, in their stories, if I am hac> recalling the beginning correctly. Yes it did, though changed the title a lot with new ideas. hac> I think that is where the misunderstandings started. I hac> assumed the discussion was still about the appropriate or hac> inappropriate use of the original source material in one's hac> writing and differences of interpretation based upon varying hac> academic prejudices and fields of study, not to mention personal hac> experience and cultural bias as possible influences (references hac> to suburban living in cultures where people are unaccustomed to hac> household help, for example was raised). And I focused on the second part - differences of interpretation. It doesn't mean other participants think my way, I might be the only one focusing mostly on the scholar part. But then judging if use of such fact is or is not appropriate in one's fiction would not be against the unwritten policy of SWG? Given that we stated so many times we should not force our canon interpretations on writing of others nor tell them what they supposed to write etc. On the other hand I see nothing wrong in the initial post as long as we're discussing ideas, not stating "X made a mistake in their story". Criticism is necessary to evolve and helpful as long as doesn't kill creativity. I know what was your point with hair colour example, but you said "hair colour" and "Maedhros", I had to discuss it ;) hac> (Sorry, I did not receive the personal email you refer to? hac> Maybe it went amiss? It might get cleared by aol's spamfilter, I'll resend it. hac> I�was speaking in generalities here and not�of specifics hac> very deliberately. I was talking not about facts at all but hac> about my attitude toward using canon in my own writing. I was talking about facts and my visions of Aman, which are more than interpretation of facts. If I was writing I would probably used them to create the world so in the end we are not that far. Still I see a difference between having a vision what Aman is and creating on purpose specific description of it, which doesn't have to resemble that personal vision but serve a story. hac> I am truly sorry if I seem argumentative or unpleasant. That was misunderstanding, I was argumentative the same. hac> I am sorry, really sincerely hac> sorry to have upset you or reinforced negative feelings you had hac> about discussing such questions with me. And I am sorry I made you feeling defensive, though I tried to avoid it. Don't feel so bad about this misunderstanding :) Plus it must be something in my way of speaking for you are not the only one who thought I was criticizing their story, not discussing books interpretations. hac> I will read such discussion threads more carefully and slowly�in the future and hac> either comment more judiciously�or abstain if I am not interested hac> in the direction of the discussion. The same I will try to do! Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2416 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82198 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 17:27:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 17:27:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.156) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 17:27:07 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so3185998ywk.64 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:27:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.16.134 with SMTP id o6mr138013iba.16.1232472427220; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:27:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.231.16.70 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:27:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:27:07 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <754184277.20090120095752@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_36937_31628596.1232472427213" References: <754184277.20090120095752@tlen.pl> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Misunderstandings & red hair (was: dates ...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=9p8mRFV6CaDhECj2Iod4rOlHiAOUVr7VBaMiwKs6SV12qO4kOZiF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ------=_Part_36937_31628596.1232472427213-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2417 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39359 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 20:21:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2009 20:21:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 20:21:15 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.ce7.44db12f9 (41811) for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:21:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:21:09 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232482869" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: how canon fanatic can still want to fiddle with the details X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=heCiaDGoue7wk2zqFsgFMcT-6APrERpz0tivSpxpB9_XQkg9dHQD X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232482869 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for your responses, Dawn and Sirielle. I should know not to get involved in these discussions because I do get so emotional. For example, I had trouble falling asleep last night thinking about my own story arc of Fingon and Maedhros and realizing how people might react when I get to Fingon and Maedhros preparing for the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, or the discussion between Maedhros and Maglor when they decide to steal the Silmarili at the end of the War of Wrath or, worst of all, God forbid(!), when Maedhros gets to the Halls of Mandos (it won't bear any resemblance to MithLuin's extremely interesting version or details I have seen in Dawn's stories or heard about from her in private discussions). There are hints in my writing already as to how I might handle some of these questions, which could be seen by some to be wildly heretical. I was thinking, why would anybody want to read my stuff, if they already find the way I interpret canon annoying? I have only just begun to make trouble. Which then for me, raises the whole question of whether will I have any audience at all by the time I reach those points? Is it even worth writing? The question has already been presented to me point blank, and not always very politely, why write canon-based stories, if you want to shade and push the stories in directions that you know was not Tolkien intent? I ask the question from the opposite point of view in my head--although I am very shy about saying it aloud--why write it if you are only trying to stay as close to what you think Tolkien wanted to write as you can? I think the answer to both is the same and has driven storytellers forever, fascination with the original. For me the reason to write canon-based stories is to look at the details of a storyline through a different prism, but still firmly set within this richly imagined world. Yes, someone's Tirion may look more like Northern Europe, while mine reminds me at times of Classical Greece. It's the really the fascinating heroes and villians, the themes of fate or redemption, magic and even hopes for a better world that draw us all into wanting to tell these stories. There are people who read my stories, who are not Silmarillion freaks, and enjoy them, but I actually write for people who really know and care about the canon and all its different versions and have heard all the disputes and arguments about it already. They are the only ones who can really see the amount of research, thought, and, yes, choices, that go into my story cycle. Choice is paramount for me. I chose who is Gil-galad's father in my story cycle. I didn't figure out who is Gil-galad's father. Can one follow that logic? Too much information about me! As I said before to Sirielle, I will try harder to pay attention to what people are actually talking about when these canon discussions arise and not jump so quickly into a discussion and be so sensitive about my own preoccupations. **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) -------------------------------1232482869 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Thanks for your r= esponses, Dawn and Sirielle. I should know not to get involved in these di= scussions because I do get so emotional.

For example, I had troubl= e falling asleep last night thinking about my own story arc of Fingon and = Maedhros and realizing how people might react when I get to Fingon and Mae= dhros preparing for the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, or the discu= ssion between Maedhros and Maglor when they decide to steal the Silma= rili at the end of the War of Wrath or, worst of all, God forbid(!), when = Maedhros gets to the Halls of Mandos (it won't bear any resemblance to Mit= hLuin's extremely interesting version or details I have seen in Dawn's sto= ries or heard about from her in private discussions).
 
There are hints in my writing already as to how I might handle som= e of these questions, which could be seen by some to be wildly heretical. = I was thinking, why would anybody want to read my stuff, if they= already find the way I interpret canon annoying? I have only just begun t= o make trouble. Which then for me, raises the whole question of wheth= er will I have any audience at all by the time I reach those points? = Is it even worth writing?
 
The question has al= ready been presented to me point blank, and not always very politely, why = write canon-based stories, if you want to shade and push the stories&= nbsp;in directions that you know was not Tolkien intent? I ask the questio= n from the opposite point of view in my head--although I am= very shy about saying it aloud--why write it if you are only trying = to stay as close to what you think Tolkien wanted to write as you can?&nbs= p;I think the answer to both is the same and has driven storytellers forev= er, fascination with the original. For me the reason to write canon-based = stories is to look at the details of a storyline through a = different prism, but still firmly set within this richly imagined world. Ye= s, someone's Tirion may look more like Northern Europe, while mine reminds= me at times of Classical Greece. It's the really the fascinating heroes a= nd villians, the themes of fate or redemption, magic and even hopes f= or a better world that draw us all into wanting to tell these stories.
=
There are people who read my stories, who are not Silmarillion freaks,= and enjoy them, but I actually write for people who really know and = care about the canon and all its different versions and have heard al= l the disputes and arguments about it already. They are the only ones who = can really see the amount of research, thought, and, ye= s, choices, that go into my story cycle. Choice is paramount= for me. I chose who is Gil-galad's father in my story cycle. I d= idn't figure out who is Gil-galad's father. Can one follow t= hat logic?
 
Too much information about me! As I= said before to Sirielle, I will try harder to pay attention to what peopl= e are actually talking about when these canon discussions arise and not ju= mp so quickly into a discussion and be so sensitive about my own preoccupa= tions.



Inauguration '09: Ge= t complete coverage from the nation's capital.
= -------------------------------1232482869-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2418 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8818 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 01:38:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2009 01:38:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 01:38:49 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65DA6104006 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:38:48 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:38:47 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:38:48 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <574137296.20090121023848@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: how canon fanatic can still want to fiddle with the details X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=W2UJrY1DVdVn81xHgpXSeGj5RQYJb0n-eSCr6Fg-YMe-N6D7oDw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, and just today a question if canon exists at all and if there are canonical fan stories appeared on JRRT forums and most of participants say what I was looking for yesterday but failed to find - what Tolkien wrote is canon, what is in fan fiction is not, so fan fiction can't be canonical. Plus, whatever way we would understand canon there is no canon for the Silmarillion for Tolkien never published it. As you both hinted - he could dismiss Grey Annals and write a new thing or do something completely different. Ah, and BTW, as I mentioned it - I was looking for a story which I could swear I saw on SWG, where Maedhros and bros were described as herbs or flowers in a gardening book or some herbal guide - what way the plant looks like, where it grows, how much water it needs etc. I browsed yesterday all stories with Maedhros and haven't found it. Maybe it was not on SWG? Does anyone know what is this story? It had a nice entry about what is canonical fiction ;D hac> For example, I had trouble falling asleep last night hac> thinking about my own story arc of Fingon and Maedhros and hac> realizing how people might react when I get to Fingon and hac> Maedhros preparing�for the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, If you'll find a good way to save Fingon I'll give you candies ;) Seriously, I don't know what is your horrible heretic idea concerning this chapter, I just remembered I've red one convincing story where Fingon survived the battle, in a very simple and logical way. Just a side note! Anyway - stop worrying, write for people who seek in fan fiction the same what you do. Or if it sill bothers you throw away Arda from the story and make it completely your own. You'll get a different audience, maybe less hits, but more people really interested in what you have written, not only in the characters of Tolkien. With fan fiction and fan art, nor mentioning fan movie (oooops!) there is always risk that someone will come and grumble "It's not Tolkien!". I was thinking of it one day. With some ideas I have, not revolutionary at all, but not what Tolkien wanted either and given all I get from him is the idea of a tribe with golden hair living in blessed realms (or even not exactly such), then I see no point to stay in Tolkien's basement. It's easier for me because these are not things I actually write, but rather imagine and talk about from time to time. But if I ever paint those "Vanyar", depending on their final look I will probably forget mentioning that somewhere in the beginning Tolkien's Vanyar inspired me. I still change my mind on that, though. Question is - if they are totally mine in character and spirit and all they've got in common are names then why would I keep them on Arda? What does it give me to stay in fandom? I see rather more possibilities with taking those characters into completely my domain. I expect I will not get more comments this way, but I'll be free to do whatever I want. With already written story which follows events from the Silmarillion the case is more complicated, but it is always an option. Again, the simpler option is to ignore unpleasant people and do what you love within the fandom. hac> I�was thinking, why would anybody want to hac> read�my stuff, if they already find the way I interpret canon hac> annoying? Then they should save stress to them and you and not read it. I don't read stories I find annoying, learned it with time after suffering from anger several times. Care for readers who enjoy what you write. hac> I have only just begun to make trouble. Which then for hac> me, raises the whole question�of whether�will I have any hac> audience at all by the time I reach those points? Is it even hac> worth writing? That depends if you write to have the audience or if you write to see this story, because you have to, because you love to. Audience and feedback are great, but they do not always come, it doesn't mean we should stop creating :) hac> For me the reason to write canon-based stories is to look at the�details of hac> a�storyline�through a different prism, but still firmly set hac> within this richly imagined world. There is "Black Book of Arda" in Russia, I haven't found any English translation nor even saw the original (my Russian is too poor to read anything anyway). This is "heretical" and probably extremely interesting retelling of the Silmarillion, as I've been told. After fan art I saw on-line I guess Sauron is not really evil in this book, or maybe plays on both fronts. Pity TE would never allow for such publication, I wish to get my hands on it. And I really regret my Russian is crap, maybe one day I'll learn it again. But I've red another Russian book of that kind written - "The Last Master of the Ring", published in Poland years ago. Later the book vanished from bookstores as we've joined EU and such publication was impossible. That's what I've been told, but now it's on sale again. I wonder on what conditions. ||| SPOILER for people speaking Russian and intending to read this book! ||| This book refers to canon and knowing the original one will enjoy it much more than reading it on it's own. It simply makes less impact without the original background. It retells the whole LotR story from the perspective of Mordor, a country of progress and science. The not pretty race of Mordor constitutes a problem to the White Council, who keeps the nations of Middle-earth in backwardness while Mordor just founded the first university and works on a steam machine. Destroying it in a war seems to be the best solution. Orthodox fans hate this book, I loved it, even if it turned too much into spy fiction towards the end. Now compare your own vision - do you really turn Arda upside down as the mentioned texts? If not, do really canatics have reason to grumble? Of course one could find your interpretation as insult to Tolkien, blasphemy, that's possible. I find some stories being insult, so what? I've had my lesson and do not read them, that's all. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2419 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12336 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 02:28:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2009 02:28:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 02:28:09 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.bee.3b76c887 (41811) for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:28:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:28:04 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232504884" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: how canon fanatic can still want to fiddle... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=PstEYYDVy6vzzdU5gKUFnTHFjOq2ZTshAEp0BOCte6_Fbn_aW8eA X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232504884 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/20/2009 8:42:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes: I was looking for a story which I could swear I saw on SWG, where Maedhros and bros were described as herbs or flowers in a gardening book or some herbal guide - what way the plant looks like, where it grows, how much water it needs etc. _http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=322_ (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=322) Take a look at Stories of Arda. Stories of Arda was created as an archive for stories based on and consistent with the world Tolkien created. It is meant to be a place to encourage and be encouraged by others who enjoy exploring this wonderful world. The basic guidelines for stories are as follows: * Fanfiction stories set in the universe of JRR Tolkien, with respect for his original work * Rated G-R, no-slash or parodies of slash * Entertaining and well-written stories created by people who take pride in their work **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) -------------------------------1232504884 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 1/20/2009 8:42:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirielle@tlen.pl writes:
I was looking for a story which I could swea= r I saw on
SWG, where Maedhros and bros were described as herbs or fl= owers in
a gardening book or some herbal guide - what way the plant l= ooks like,
where it grows, how much water it needs etc.
 
Stories of Arda was created as an archive= for stories based on and consistent with the world Tolkien created. It is= meant to be a place to encourage and be encouraged by others who enjoy ex= ploring this wonderful world.

The basic guidelines = for stories are as follows:

  •  Fanfiction storie= s set in the universe of JRR Tolkien, with respect for his original work=
  •  Rated G-R, no-slash or parodies of slash
  •  Enterta= ining and well-written stories created by people who take pride in their= work



Inauguration '09= : Get complete coverage from the nation's capital.
-------------------------------1232504884-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2420 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59157 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 02:35:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2009 02:35:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 02:35:33 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2253865EFC for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:35:20 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:35:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:10:28 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1317753951.20090121031028@tlen.pl> To: Dawn Felagund In-Reply-To: References: <754184277.20090120095752@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[4]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Misunderstandings (was:...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=t1YR40419dnEsoYk-z8l6lSs8AyFa4SvmdwZ2zSVZWkYu3zBho0 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Dawn, DF> I can see how there could be misunderstandings on this DF> matter. We are, after all, a writers' group by name; we've DF> expanded a bit beyond that in recent years to make way for art and DF> non-fiction/scholarship, but I think the group's primary purpose DF> still remains fictional interpretation of JRRT's writings. My point is to have a good fictional interpretation we need to know the original, thus we discuss interpretations of it. Or discuss them from pure curiosity. The only misunderstanding is that discussing our interpretations of a fact, possibility and disagreeing on them doesn't mean criticizing or forcing changes to a story based on such. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2421 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79334 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 02:56:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2009 02:56:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.74) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 02:56:50 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx10.go2.pl [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7167865F00 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:56:49 +0100 (CET) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (unknown [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:56:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:56:48 +0100 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1313976858.20090121035648@tlen.pl> To: "heartofoshun@aol.com" In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: how canon fanatic can still want to fiddle... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=cMTK5v0BqwZN0jp-qyaE67Mmh0bySbkpho_PzQmsGTjXn1hQipE X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Oshun, hac> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=322 That's it, thank you! Now I see why I couldn't find it - there is no Maedhros in it ;) But it contains humorous and so true definitions of fanon, canon and Mixed/Filler, but I don't think I should quote - here they are, below the chibi: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=322&chapter=1 Haven't red teh fic, though, but now bookmarked. One day I'll get to all those bookmarks. hac> Take a look at Stories of Arda.� I am SoA member, silent one. But I've discussed Valarin bodies there the same time as here and liked the input from the group. But I admit I omitted "Morgoth's penis" in thread's name, I didn't know if they would find it respectful, while I assumed SWG will find it funny. "Fanfiction stories set in the universe of JRR Tolkien, with respect for his original work." - a matter of interpretation, it will mean different things to all of us. Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2422 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89861 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 03:00:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2009 03:00:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 03:00:53 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.cb1.38c90a14 (41811) for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:00:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:00:41 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232506841" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: how canon fanatic can still want to... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=532pgTxsdBGcagSACZwxVvm0bSJ3hLzsAcNBQMplB-jqVqWK1Xko X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232506841 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Fanfiction stories set in the universe of JRR Tolkien, with respect for his original work." - a matter of interpretation, it will mean different things to all of us. I could argue, which I won't, that I have more respect for the original work than most people who post there do and they would likely argue I have none at all. **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) -------------------------------1232506841 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
"Fanfiction stories set in the universe of JR= R Tolkien, with respect for his original work."

- a matter of int= erpretation, it will mean different things to all of us.
I could argue, which I won't, that I have m= ore respect for the original work than most people who post there do and t= hey would likely argue I have none at all.



Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage = from the nation's capital.
-------------------------------1232506841-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2423 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 65878 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 12:03:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2009 12:03:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n46a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.140) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 12:03:24 -0000 Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2009 12:03:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2009 12:03:23 -0000 X-Sender: surgsteel@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75675 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 11:59:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2009 11:59:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 11:59:28 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2009 11:59:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2009 11:59:28 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:59:27 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "surgeon_ruth" Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: how canon fanatic can still want to... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=328688752; y=mVi_nEBgw8WMWtOdiuPDpdDW1p5c6bWb5TjIUypQ7CQZJKPDoyvB X-Yahoo-Profile: surgeon_ruth X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 21 Jan 2009 12:03:21 -0000 New member here, I've been enjoying the discussion! ---I could argue, whic= h I won't, that I have more respect for the original work than most people= who post there do and they would likely argue I have none at all. You've= certainly read more of the source material than most people who post ther= e. And you're right, they have a very narrow definition of what they consi= der to be acceptable interpretations of the source material, and if you do= n't interpret things in their way, it's felt to be lack of respect. --- I= n SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > = > > > "Fanfiction stories set in the universe of JRR Tolkien, with respe= ct for his > original work." > > - a matter of interpretation, it will m= ean different things to all of us. > > > > I could argue, which I won'= t, that I have more respect for the original work > than most people who= post there do and they would likely argue I have none > at all. > *****= *********Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's > cap= ital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration? ncid=3Demlcntusnews0= 0000003) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2424 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29463 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 17:57:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2009 17:57:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.184) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 17:57:57 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id j77so494276rne.9 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:57:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.32.70 with SMTP id b6mr220697ibd.12.1232560676835; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:57:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:57:56 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215048d6f4e9106046101e503 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: how canon fanatic can still want to fiddle with the details X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=J4PokQaLY9_F10xXnZFykFm53Zq3bQ7GdCelFbqUA6tA010YJbR5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --002215048d6f4e9106046101e503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 3:21 PM, wrote: > The question has already been presented to me point blank, and not always very politely, why write canon-based stories, if you want to shade and push the stories in directions that you know was not Tolkien intent? I ask the question from the opposite point of view in my head--although I am very shy about saying it aloud--why write it if you are only trying to stay as close to what you think Tolkien wanted to write as you can? The longer I'm in fandom, the more I think that *this* question more than any other might be the one that divides us, not whether we write Silm or LotT, or het or slash, or Elves or Men (or Hobbits :). I sometimes feel that I write and read Tolkien-based stories for completely different reasons than a large portion of my fellow fan-writers. I never wrote fanfic or had any desire to write fanfic before I read the Silm. Suddenly, I couldn't get it out of my mind. *This story,* I thought, *would be awesome if it was expanded and the characters fully fleshed out.* I really thought I had an original idea when I came up with that, and I could not get it out of my mind. Lo, when I was bored at work one day, I started Googling character names and found out that my idea wasn't so original after all, and there were reams and reams of this "fan fiction" doing exactly what I had been entertaining myself by doing, at least in my head, for months. I started reading it and quickly got addicted. Soon enough, I was writing it too. But never, in all of this, do I recall thinking that I wanted to read and write fan fiction because I wanted to "get more of the books" or "get more of Tolkien's world." I didn't like the Silm at all the first time I read it; I liked it more the second time if only because it opened a lot of questions in my mind that I found fascinating to ponder. I liked using stories to find answers to those questions, and I liked seeing the opinions of others as they expressed themselves in their stories. If an author chose an unconventional pairing or didn't follow L&C exactly, part of my mind noted it as "not something Tolkien wrote" much as, if reading an original story, a couple suddenly starts being able to hear their neighbors' conversations through their radio (a real story, though I can't remember the title offhand), my mind notes "not something that happens in this world" and I move on. Conformity to "reality"--or in the case of fanfic, canon--is not nearly as important to me as the story; I'd rather the author make me believe in the characters than make me believe that I'm reading a lost chapter of *The Silmarillion.* If the author--through her or his choices--can make me think about an event or a character or an idea in a different way, then this is very satisfying for me too. I discovered soon enough that my view was somewhat odd in some circles. I often heard people claim to be "thrown from the story" by the author's choice in terms of characterization, interpretation, or even wording. I heard people say that JRRT was "spinning in his grave" because of a story (often one that I wrote). I got called a "heretic" with all the implications of messing inappropriately with something greater and more sacred than me. (Hence, my blog is called The Heretic Loremaster. ;) I learned that some readers liked stories that allowed them to feel like they were getting more of Tolkien's world: an expansion of the books. Straying too much in terms of interpretation or writing style, then, was unpalatable. I think the last straw, for me, came when I was criticized for writing in American English because Tolkien was British, and my American spellings were enough to "throw one from the story." I realized that what I was doing and calling "fanfic" was completely different from what other fan-writers were doing and calling the same thing. I doubt that it's a tidy dichotomy. But I do sometimes think that readers go into stories with different expectations, and that writers can't possibly satisfy both extremes. Being "canon-compliant" as it is typically understood does not allow me the satisfaction of exploring, questioning, and commenting on the texts with which I work. So someone who wants a replica of Tolkien in my stories or to see the Feanorians' childhoods (for example) as Tolkien probably would have written them will not be satisfied with my stories. Likewise, as a reader, I tend not to appreciate "canon-compliant" stories (again, using the definition usually attached to this term; in fact, I find my work just as "canon compliant" as anyone else's) because they don't give me the *story* I need to be entertained. I know the facts already. I want to see the story brought to life *beyond* what Tolkien told us. I don't think that one preference is better than another. Just different. I think the problem comes when people from either side (because the anti-canatics can be nasty in forcing their opinions just as canatics can), instead of seeing *different,* start seeing *wrong* and feel the need to almost proselytize to the other side steer them "right." As for why people do this ... I wish I had the answer. :) It would solve a lot of problems bigger than fanfic preferences! Personally, I've just gotten to the point of avoiding those readers who don't like my kind of work. If they want to seek me out, that's fine, but I'm not going to try to convince them to see things as I do or like what I write. Now people who feel the need to be rude over *Internet fan fiction* I reserve the right to bring down a few pegs. I'm frequently stressed these days, trying to manage school and work and a life all at once, so it's a good stress relief. Hence, every now and then, I get the oddest urge to post on ff.net ... ;) Oshun, you're much more patient than me. Some of the remarks you've borne with a smile, I would have dropped the virtual gloves long ago. :) I do believe that people who feel the need to suppress writing (through discouragement or harassment) that is different from theirs do so out of a mixture of pure nastiness and defensiveness. I think this is true of fan writing as well as original writing. *How embarassing* if someone who writes about a talking Pegasus somehow manages to create a better story than one that seeks to comment on the Meaning of Life (tm)! *How embarassing* if a story that is a love story between two men is somehow better than a story that seeks to depict all of the great, tragic, and heroic moments of *The Silmarillion*! Otherwise, why is there a need to discourage the creation of stories? If they are truly inferior, they are easy enough to ignore or disregard entirely. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --002215048d6f4e9106046101e503 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 3:21 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
>= The question has already been presented to me point blank, and not always = very politely, why write canon-based stories, if you want to shade and push= the stories in directions that you know was not Tolkien intent? I ask the = question from the opposite point of view in my head--although I am very shy= about saying it aloud--why write it if you are only trying to stay as clos= e to what you think Tolkien wanted to write as you can?
 <= /div>
The longer I'm in fandom, the more I think that this question more than any other might be the one that divides us, not whethe= r we write Silm or LotT, or het or slash, or Elves or Men (or Hobbits :). I= sometimes feel that I write and read Tolkien-based stories for completely = different reasons than a large portion of my fellow fan-writers.
 
I never wrote fanfic or had any desire to write fanfic = before I read the Silm. Suddenly, I couldn't get it out of my mind. This story, I thought, would be awesome if it wa= s expanded and the characters fully fleshed out. I really thought I ha= d an original idea when I came up with that, and I could not get it out of = my mind. Lo, when I was bored at work one day, I started Googling character= names and found out that my idea wasn't so original after all, and the= re were reams and reams of this "fan fiction" doing exactly what = I had been entertaining myself by doing, at least in my head, for months. I= started reading it and quickly got addicted. Soon enough, I was writing it= too.
 
But never, in all of this, do I recall = thinking that I wanted to read and write fan fiction because I wanted to &q= uot;get more of the books" or "get more of Tolkien's world.&q= uot; I didn't like the Silm at all the first time I read it; I liked it= more the second time if only because it opened a lot of questions in my mi= nd that I found fascinating to ponder. I liked using stories to find answer= s to those questions, and I liked seeing the opinions of others as they exp= ressed themselves in their stories.
 
If an aut= hor chose an unconventional pairing or didn't follow L&C exactly, p= art of my mind noted it as "not something Tolkien wrote" much as,= if reading an original story, a couple suddenly starts being able to hear = their neighbors' conversations through their radio (a real story, thoug= h I can't remember the title offhand), my mind notes "not somethin= g that happens in this world" and I move on. Conformity to "reali= ty"--or in the case of fanfic, canon--is not nearly as important to me= as the story; I'd rather the author make me believe in the characters = than make me believe that I'm reading a lost chapter of The Silmari= llion. If the author--through her or his choices--can make me think ab= out an event or a character or an idea in a different way, then this is ver= y satisfying for me too.
 
I discovered soon en= ough that my view was somewhat odd in some circles. I often heard people cl= aim to be "thrown from the story" by the author's choice in t= erms of characterization, interpretation, or even wording. I heard people s= ay that JRRT was "spinning in his grave" because of a story (ofte= n one that I wrote). I got called a "heretic" with all the implic= ations of messing inappropriately with something greater and more sacred th= an me. (Hence, my blog is called The Heretic Loremaster. ;) I learned that = some readers liked stories that allowed them to feel like they were getting= more of Tolkien's world: an expansion of the books. Straying too much = in terms of interpretation or writing style, then, was unpalatable. I think= the last straw, for me, came when I was criticized for writing in American= English because Tolkien was British, and my American spellings were enough= to "throw one from the story." I realized that what I was doing = and calling "fanfic" was completely different from what other fan= -writers were doing and calling the same thing.
 
I doubt that it's a tidy dichotomy. But I do sometimes think that re= aders go into stories with different expectations, and that writers can'= ;t possibly satisfy both extremes. Being "canon-compliant" as it = is typically understood does not allow me the satisfaction of exploring, qu= estioning, and commenting on the texts with which I work. So someone who wa= nts a replica of Tolkien in my stories or to see the Feanorians' childh= oods (for example) as Tolkien probably would have written them will not be = satisfied with my stories. Likewise, as a reader, I tend not to appreciate = "canon-compliant" stories (again, using the definition usually at= tached to this term; in fact, I find my work just as "canon compliant&= quot; as anyone else's) because they don't give me the story I need to be entertained. I know the facts already. I want to see the st= ory brought to life beyond what Tolkien told us.
 = ;
I don't think that one preference is better than another. = Just different. I think the problem comes when people from either side (bec= ause the anti-canatics can be nasty in forcing their opinions just as canat= ics can), instead of seeing different, start seeing wrong= and feel the need to almost proselytize to the other side steer them "= ;right." As for why people do this ... I wish I had the answer. :) It = would solve a lot of problems bigger than fanfic preferences!
&= nbsp;
Personally, I've just gotten to the point of avoiding = those readers who don't like my kind of work. If they want to seek me o= ut, that's fine, but I'm not going to try to convince them to see t= hings as I do or like what I write. Now people who feel the need to be rude= over Internet fan fiction I reserve the right to bring down a few= pegs. I'm frequently stressed these days, trying to manage school and = work and a life all at once, so it's a good stress relief. Hence, every= now and then, I get the oddest urge to post on f= f.net ... ;) Oshun, you're much more patient than me. Some of the r= emarks you've borne with a smile, I would have dropped the virtual glov= es long ago. :)
 
I do believe that people who = feel the need to suppress writing (through discouragement or harassment) th= at is different from theirs do so out of a mixture of pure nastiness and de= fensiveness. I think this is true of fan writing as well as original writin= g. How embarassing if someone who writes about a talking Pegasus s= omehow manages to create a better story than one that seeks to comment on t= he Meaning of Life (tm)! How embarassing if a story that is a love= story between two men is somehow better than a story that seeks to depict = all of the great, tragic, and heroic moments of The Silmarillion! = Otherwise, why is there a need to discourage the creation of stories? If th= ey are truly inferior, they are easy enough to ignore or disregard entirely= .
 
Dawn
 
--
~o= Oo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--002215048d6f4e9106046101e503-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2425 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97411 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 18:56:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2009 18:56:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 18:56:49 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c7a.4d2c2cab (65097) for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:56:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:56:42 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1232564202" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: how canon fanatic can still want to fiddl... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=lsR2X3iuc4gD_irzcyGB3apeekt2NNnrf0PxwXJF1P912elUUON2 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1232564202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't like the Silm at all the first time I read it; I liked it more the second time if only because it opened a lot of questions in my mind that I found fascinating to ponder. I liked using stories to find answers to those questions, and I liked seeing the opinions of others as they expressed themselves in their stories. I must admit, Dawn, that I had the same reaction when I first read The Silmarillion. I had read Lord of the Rings dozens of times and was always attracted to the glimpses of the huge backstory. (Backstory is very important to me in writing in general.) I think a certain type of shallowness in some fanfiction shook me out of my mild aversion to the style of The Silmarillion and made me want to really learn that backstory and first have it reflected in my Third Age stories. Then, like you, I was hooked. Here was the really big story, the almost forgotten story, the epic with the bigger than life heroes and villians, the characters who were neither all good or all bad, but complex like real life, and filled with such teasing hints of personalities and so many gaps to fill. I coudn't resist trying to take those little clues from The Silmarillion and developing them. That is how I got to where I am right now. I get such pleasure from that character development and put so much time into combing through the original over and over again while doing it, that being told the way I approach canon is "wrong" cannot but upset me. JunoMagic actually is the writer who shook loose my last niggling resistance to the way that other people chose to interpret those same characters and events, to be able to truly enjoy interpretations that vary wildly from my own. She has said "never say never"--and popped up with recommendations of fanfiction stories that are really marvelous based upon one of those "I would never want to read a story that...." There is a lot of pleasure to be had from opening one's mind. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) -------------------------------1232564202 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
I didn't like the Silm at all the first tim= e I read it; I liked it more the second time if only because it opened a= lot of questions in my mind that I found fascinating to ponder. I liked= using stories to find answers to those questions, and I liked seeing th= e opinions of others as they expressed themselves in their stories.
I must admit, Dawn, that I had the s= ame reaction when I first read The Silmarillion. I had read L= ord of the Rings dozens of times and was always attracted to the glim= pses of the huge backstory. (Backstory is very important to me in writing = in general.) I think a certain type of shallowness in some fanfi= ction shook me out of my mild aversion to the style of The Silmarillio= n and made me want to really learn that backstory and first have it r= eflected in my Third Age stories. Then, like you, I was hooked. Here was&n= bsp;the really big story, the almost forgotten story, the epic with t= he bigger than life heroes and villians, the characters who were neither a= ll good or all bad, but complex like real life, and filled with such teasi= ng hints of personalities and so many gaps to fill. I coudn't resist trying= to take those little clues from The Silmarillion and developing= them. That is how I got to where I am right now.

I get such pleas= ure from that character development and put so much time into combing thro= ugh the original over and over again while doing it, that being told the w= ay I approach canon is "wrong" cannot but upset me. JunoMagic actually is = the writer who shook loose my last niggling resistance to the way that oth= er people chose to interpret those same characters and events, to be able = to truly enjoy interpretations that vary wildly from m= y own. She has said "never say never"--and popped up with recommendations = of fanfiction stories that are really marvelous based upon one o= f those "I would never want to read a story that...." There is a lot of&nb= sp;pleasure to be had from opening one's mind. 

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
-------------------------------1232564202-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2426 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54855 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2009 01:44:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2009 01:44:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2009 01:44:43 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2009 01:44:43 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2009 01:44:43 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:44:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1682024385.20090120005820@tlen.pl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="7-6283101917-3319115886=:7" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Dates from Grey Annals (Was: Poverty in Aman?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=KNV7Yxphcn50-ZsCkTVYyX2-l8Niym4IFlyONuD3nJQoSqHB7EPhsd9X X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --7-6283101917-3319115886=:7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm setting aside my pandemonium pork pie hat for the moment and putting on= my Doc Bushwell pith helmet. That is, I'm addressing this less from my s= quishy and highly interpretative fan fic side and more from the skeptical -= - and critical -- "show me" approach. When question is about a fact in JRR= T texts, than it's exactly about that fact, not about it's opposition to st= ories by this or the other author. That's the way I see it. The thing is, = if one peruses the writings that comprise Tolkien's legendarium -- and thi= s is on the assumption that The Silmarillion, History of Middle-earth and U= nfinished Tales are "canonical" -- there are "facts" that contradict one an= other or have changed based on the evolution of Tolkien's writings. Which = ones are then the correct facts? You are talking about writing fan fiction= , I am generally talking about source texts and interpretation of their con= tent. Not about writing. Ah, but here's the rub. You've identified a diff= iculty inherent to these types of literary analyses. They are often highly= subjective. Studying Tolkien's work is scholarship, with perhaps a tiny b= it of room for personal reaction, clearly identified as that and not fact, = or the occasional comparison to other literary traditions. True, but it is= not rocket science. By that I do not mean that it is less worthy than roc= ket science, but that it is more prone to subjectivity and sometimes facts = are not so clearly identified. What is "fact" in rocket science tends to b= e robust and measurable. "Fact" in works as complex and muddled as Tolkien= 's can be more subjective when it comes to analysis. That's why I wrote t= he statement from the first quotation. I always try to discuss things to fi= nd out what is in the books and how to understand it in the first place. Fa= cts and their interpretation. Again, interpretation is the key word here. = It's difficult to read a deceased author's mind when a huge collection of = works, with sometimes contradictory facts, are spread in front of a number = of scholars. I may not always be clear, maybe thus answers in defensive mo= od happen. But it almost never happens outside of SWG, though I usually don= 't post in writers communities which may be a factor. Or it could be that = here you interact with critical outspoken people who are willing to argue t= heir position. [;)] No one's opinions are above challenging, including m= ine and including Tolkien's. > > According to the Grey Annals (HoME XI, = excerpts): > > - Age of Stars - > > 1497 > Maedhros captured by Morgoth > >= 1498... > > > > The exact dates are given - hanged in 1498, rescue= d in the 5th year > of sun. I may be wrong, but I do not count years of st= ars into sun > years - time started running faster after the Sun appeared = and > flows different in Aman and in ME, but before that it was the same >= everywhere. So getting back to facts and what is written, then how does = one reconcile this with Tolkien's later writings in HoMe X, Morgoth's Ring,= in which he expressly wished to revise the cosmogony of The Silmarillion (= flat earth, creation of massive astronomical bodies from tree fruits) to th= at which reflects our primary world? These were written later than the Gre= y Annals, correct? So are these not facts? Or are these facts "lesser" th= an the Grey Annals? If accepted, that contradicts the concept of "Sun yea= rs" and that the "running of time" changed after the sudden appearance of a= huge ball of plasma, which in turn might raise skepticism concerning those= exact dates. I have to admit I was mightily amused by the following comme= nts on the above revisions of Arda by Steuard Jensen in Tolkien's Parish : The Canonical Middle-eart= h: Because some of Tolkien's latest writings included attempts to remove a= ll references to a flat earth before the sun and moon, it is less clear tha= t Tolkien would have chosen in the end to "preserve the general structure o= f the mythology." However, he might well have done so: after all, he had s= eriously considered the same idea years earlier before abandoning it. Tolk= ien considered these changes in order to make Middle-earth's nature and his= tory closer to that of the real world, but he might have reconsidered once = he realized that no realistic connection to true history was possible. OK.= This bit "some of Tolkien's later writings included attempts to remove al= l references to a flat earth before the sun and moon..." is fact. Everythi= ng else is speculative. Although a thoughtful and well-written essay, muc= h of Tolkien's Parish is like that: a speculative and interpretative piece = on canon. So, the point is, and I do have one, is the fan fic is not the o= nly thing subject to interpretation. The alleged "facts" which to which we= are admonished to refer slide on a slippery slope of revision and contradi= ction which is not only the result of the hapless Christopher Tolkien's edi= ting, but also by the original author. Also, and I am genuinely curious ab= out this, why is defining precisely what constitutes Tolkienian canon so im= portant independent of writing fan fiction? How do scholars of Tolkien (wh= o are not concerned with creative writing based on the legendarium) apply t= he minutiae of exact *cough* dates and the genetic contributions of Mahta= n to his descendant's hair color? Sorry. I'm being flip but would canon b= e as important in this particular milieu (warranting a whole essay by Mr. J= ensen) if creative writing were not a component of this? I'm with the here= tic loremaster a.k.a. Dawn. The more I delve into Tolkien's works, the les= s use I see for canon adherence. Not that I adhere to canon. [;)] --7-6283101917-3319115886=:7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm setting aside my pandemonium pork pie hat for the moment and putting on= my Doc Bushwell pith helmet.   That is, I'm addressing this less= from my squishy and highly interpretative fan fic side and more from the s= keptical -- and critical -- "show me" approach.

When ques= tion is about a fact in JRRT texts, than it's exactly about that fact, not about it's opposition to stories by this or the other author. That's= the way I see it.

The thing is, if one peruses  the writin= gs that comprise Tolkien's legendarium -- and this is on the assumption tha= t The Silmarillion, History of Middle-earth and Unfinished Tales are "canon= ical" -- there are "facts" that contradict one another or have changed base= d on the evolution of Tolkien's writings.  Which ones are then the = correct facts?

You are talking about writing fan ficti= on, I am generally talking about source texts and interpretation of = their content. Not about writing.

Ah, but here's the rub.  = You've identified a difficulty inherent to these types of literary analyses= .  They are often highly subjective.

Studying Tolk= ien's work is scholarship, with perhaps a tiny bit of room for personal= reaction, clearly identified as that and not fact, or the occasional compa= rison to other literary traditions.

True, but it is not rocket s= cience.  By that I do not mean that it is less worthy than rocket scie= nce, but that it is more prone to subjectivity and sometimes facts are not = so clearly identified.  What is "fact" in rocket science tends to be r= obust and measurable.  "Fact" in works as complex and muddled as Tolki= en's  can be more subjective when it comes to analysis.
=
That's why I wrote the statement from the first quotation. I always try= to discuss things to find out what is in the books and how to understand i= t in the first place. Facts and their interpretation.

Ag= ain, interpretation is the key word here.  It's difficult to read a de= ceased author's mind when a huge collection of works, with sometimes contra= dictory facts, are spread in front of a number of scholars.

I may not always be clear, maybe thus answers in defensive mood ha= ppen. But it almost never happens outside of SWG, though I usually don't po= st in writers communities which may be a factor.

Or it could be = that here you interact with critical outspoken people who are willing to ar= gue their position. 3D";)"  No one's = opinions are above challenging, including mine and including Tolkien's.
=


>
> According to the Grey Annals (HoME XI, excerpt= s):
>
> - Age of Stars -
>
> 1497
> Maedhro= s captured by Morgoth
>
> 1498...
>
>=
>
>  The exact dates are given - hanged in 1498, rescue= d in the 5th year
>  of sun. I may be wrong, but I do not count = years of stars into sun
>  years - time started running faster a= fter the Sun appeared and
>  flows different in Aman and in ME, = but before that it was the same
>  everywhere.

So ge= tting back to facts and what is written, then how does one reconcile this w= ith Tolkien's later writings in HoMe X, Morgoth's Ring, in which he express= ly wished to revise the cosmogony of The Silmarillion (flat earth, creation= of massive astronomical bodies from tree fruits) to that which reflects ou= r primary world?  These were written later than the Grey Annals, corre= ct?  So are these not facts?  Or are these facts "lesser" than th= e Grey Annals?   If accepted, that contradicts the concept of "Su= n years" and that the "running of time" changed after the sudden appearance= of a huge ball of plasma, which in turn might raise skepticism concerning = those exact dates.

I have to admit I was mightily amused by the foll= owing comments on the above revisions of Arda by Steuard Jensen in Tolkien's Parish: = The Canonical Middle-earth:

Because some of Tolkien's latest writ= ings included attempts to remove all references to a flat earth before the = sun and moon, it is less clear that Tolkien would have chosen in the end to= "preserve the general structure of the mythology." However, he might well= have done so: after all, he had seriously considered the same idea years e= arlier before abandoning it. Tolkien considered these changes in order to = make Middle-earth's nature and history closer to that of the real world, bu= t he might have reconsidered once he realized that no realistic connection = to true history was possible.

OK.  This bit "some of Tolkie= n's later writings included attempts to remove all references to a flat ear= th before the sun and moon..." is fact.  Everything else is speculativ= e.   Although a thoughtful and well-written essay, much of Tolkie= n's Parish is like that: a speculative and interpretative pie= ce on canon.

So, the point is, and I do have one, is the fan= fic is not the only thing subject to interpretation.  The alleged "fa= cts" which to which we are admonished to refer slide on a slippery slope of= revision and contradiction which is not only the result of the hapless Chr= istopher Tolkien's editing, but also by the original author.

Also, a= nd I am genuinely curious about this, why is defining precisely what= constitutes Tolkienian canon so important independent of writing fa= n fiction?  How do scholars of Tolkien (who are not concerned with cre= ative writing based on the legendarium) apply the minutiae of  exact *= cough* dates  and the genetic contributions of Mahtan to his descendan= t's hair color?  Sorry.  I'm being flip but would canon be as imp= ortant in this particular milieu (warranting a whole essay by Mr. Jensen) i= f creative writing were not a component of this? 

I'm with the= heretic loremaster a.k.a. Dawn.  The more I delve into Tolkien's work= s, the less use I see for canon adherence.  Not that I adhere to canon= .

--7-6283101917-3319115886=:7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2427 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67573 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2009 14:00:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2009 14:00:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2009 14:00:35 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2009 14:00:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2009 14:00:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:00:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "alassante7" Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: how canon fanatic can still want to... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=QRRZDWWniJh4nnoV9PRWFmi3qDaSpKl4-k3Ov-DdKWy4oNxVVg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 I think its great to know your canon. But in some ways, analysing it to de= ath, begins to ruin it. If you debate too much why and how - you're cuttin= g yourself off from why not and how come? If people don't respect your rig= hts to explore the realm of why not, then that is their loss. I've had peo= ple say they only write canon stories but they write in a love interest fo= r Amras or Celegorm. Where is that in canon? Its not. So if you're bending= canon enough to include this alteration for your own needs then you have = to stop jumping up and down screaming 'I write canon and you don't' and ju= st write, read, and enjoy. Narrowmindedness has no place in fanfiction whi= ch is all about imagination. We don't know what Tolkien would say about ou= r fanfiction so we cannot say he would/wouldn't approve. --- In Silmaril= lionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > > > > "F= anfiction stories set in the universe of JRR Tolkien, with respect for hi= s > original work." > > - a matter of interpretation, it will mean diffe= rent things to all of us. > > > > I could argue, which I won't, that I = have more respect for the original work > than most people who post ther= e do and they would likely argue I have none > at all. > **************I= nauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's > capital. (htt= p://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration? ncid=3Demlcntusnews00000003) >= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2428 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5112 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2009 16:10:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2009 16:10:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f14.google.com) (209.85.217.14) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2009 16:10:56 -0000 X-Received: by gxk7 with SMTP id 7so2937064gxk.6 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:10:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.14.196 with SMTP id h4mr182798iba.15.1232640655454; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:10:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:10:55 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255762ca6773b204611484a2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: O-fic vs. Fanfic (was: how canon fanatic can still want to fiddle with the details) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ScTUmN3MIl5CS6kETppdEOI_qY1iRLAf6-X0fbJG4e0NxqXB80Yi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0003255762ca6773b204611484a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2009/1/20 Sirielle: > Or if it sill bothers you > throw away Arda from the story and make it completely your own. You'll > get a different audience, maybe less hits, but more people really > interested in what you have written, not only in the characters of > Tolkien. As a writer of both fanfic and o-fic, I have slightly different motivations for both. More with fanfic than o-fic, I want interaction with others about the ideas I'm sharing in my story. With o-fic, this isn't necessarily the case. I can attest that one gets *far *fewer comments for o-fic than fanfic. Plenty of people read my Tolkien-based stuff, but when I post an original story, I generally only get two or three comments on it. (And, usually, one of those is my husband! :) I'm not complaining about this because I really have a different expectation and motivation for the two forms. I'm much more likely to be discouraged by a low comment count on fanfic than o-fic. Part of this, I think, is because o-fic feels like it is to be silently enjoyed. If I read a really awesome story or novel, I don't write to the author and tell her. The fanfic culture is different; there is much more pressure to comment and turn stories into a social occasion. My o-fic universe, the Midhavens, did begin as a spin off of Tolkien. It was created for an RPG where none of my fellow players knew Tolkien, so I was a bit more liberal in borrowing than I ordinarily would have been. ;) However, I don't think it would be recognized as Tolkien-inspired in its current state because I've tried my hardest to beat all recognizable references to Tolkien out of it. But, yes, that certainly shows that one can take fannish interests and turn them into something original! :) > This book refers to canon and > knowing the original one will enjoy it much more than reading it on > it's own. It simply makes less impact without the original background. > It retells the whole LotR story from the perspective of Mordor, a > country of progress and science. The not pretty race of Mordor > constitutes a problem to the White Council, who keeps the nations of > Middle-earth in backwardness while Mordor just founded the first > university and works on a steam machine. Destroying it in a war seems > to be the best solution. Orthodox fans hate this book, I loved it, > even if it turned too much into spy fiction towards the end. There is a similar novel duology in English: *Banewreaker* and *Godslayer*by Jacqueline Carey. The books are not spectacularly written--many authors among us here far surpass them in terms of craft as a writer--but they have some interesting ideas. The story is a mesh of plots and characters from the Silm and LotR and tells of the Fellowship and their quest to carry an item into the Dark Lord's realm. The difference ... these novels are largely told from and sympathetic to the "Dark Lord," who is a Melkor stand-in. The novels show how he was driven from "Valinor" and set up shop in the forbidding north, how he offered protection to a reviled race (Orcs), and how he was constantly afflicted by attacks from the "good guys" who sought to destroy him simply because they had always been told that he was evil. Carey uses a lot of the assumptions that we take from LotR and the Silm and turns them on their heads. I remember a striking passage as the protagonist walked down the hall in "Angband," and I thought, "We're in Angband. And it feels like home." I do recommend them, though I find that I like them better a year after having read them than I did while actually reading them! (Probably because the ideas behind the story are in the forefront of my mind, not the rather unremarkable writing.) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0003255762ca6773b204611484a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2009/1/20 Sirielle:
 
> Or if it sill bo= thers you
> throw away Arda from the story and make it completely you= r own. You'll
> get a different audience, maybe less hits, but mo= re people really
> interested in what you have written, not only in t= he characters of
> Tolkien.
 
As a writer= of both fanfic and o-fic, I have slightly different motivations for both. = More with fanfic than o-fic, I want interaction with others about the ideas= I'm sharing in my story. With o-fic, this isn't necessarily the ca= se. I can attest that one gets far fewer comments for o-fic than f= anfic. Plenty of people read my Tolkien-based stuff, but when I post an ori= ginal story, I generally only get two or three comments on it. (And, usuall= y, one of those is my husband! :) I'm not complaining about this becaus= e I really have a different expectation and motivation for the two forms. I= 'm much more likely to be discouraged by a low comment count on fanfic = than o-fic. Part of this, I think, is because o-fic feels like it is to be = silently enjoyed. If I read a really awesome story or novel, I don't wr= ite to the author and tell her. The fanfic culture is different; there is m= uch more pressure to comment and turn stories into a social occasion.
=
 
My o-fic universe, the Midhavens, did begin as a s= pin off of Tolkien. It was created for an RPG where none of my fellow playe= rs knew Tolkien, so I was a bit more liberal in borrowing than I ordinarily= would have been. ;) However, I don't think it would be recognized as T= olkien-inspired in its current state because I've tried my hardest to b= eat all recognizable references to Tolkien out of it. But, yes, that certai= nly shows that one can take fannish interests and turn them into something = original! :)
 
> This book refers to canon a= nd
> knowing the original one will enjoy it much more than reading it= on
> it's own. It simply makes less impact without the original = background.
> It retells the whole LotR story from the perspective of= Mordor, a
> country of progress and science. The not pretty race of= Mordor
> constitutes a problem to the White Council, who keeps the n= ations of
> Middle-earth in backwardness while Mordor just founded th= e first
> university and works on a steam machine. Destroying it in = a war seems
> to be the best solution. Orthodox fans hate this book, = I loved it,
> even if it turned too much into spy fiction towards the= end.
 
There is a similar novel duology in Eng= lish: Banewreaker and Godslayer by Jacqueline Carey. The = books are not spectacularly written--many authors among us here far surpass= them in terms of craft as a writer--but they have some interesting ideas. = The story is a mesh of plots and characters from the Silm and LotR and tell= s of the Fellowship and their quest to carry an item into the Dark Lord'= ;s realm. The difference ... these novels are largely told from and sympath= etic to the "Dark Lord," who is a Melkor stand-in. The novels sho= w how he was driven from "Valinor" and set up shop in the forbidd= ing north, how he offered protection to a reviled race (Orcs), and how he w= as constantly afflicted by attacks from the "good guys" who sough= t to destroy him simply because they had always been told that he was evil.= Carey uses a lot of the assumptions that we take from LotR and the Silm an= d turns them on their heads. I remember a striking passage as the protagoni= st walked down the hall in "Angband," and I thought, "We'= ;re in Angband. And it feels like home."
 
I do recommend them, though I find that I like them better a year after ha= ving read them than I did while actually reading them! (Probably because th= e ideas behind the story are in the forefront of my mind, not the rather un= remarkable writing.)
 
Dawn

 =

--0003255762ca6773b204611484a2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2429 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74851 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2009 12:48:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2009 12:48:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2009 12:48:26 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2009 12:48:26 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2009 12:48:26 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:48:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=iwxA8s0j1CFUWv5nB3MHHr3YiBLMZzRvS0QaIxPNip9Yr3kf_MX_Ddg2jw X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked >But does not your irritation with the mere *notion* of this >interpretati= on imply that you think that the Feanorians having >servants was imperativ= e? Which implies that, even if it wasn't >something an individual wanted t= o do by choice, then they would have >demanded it nonetheless? If an autho= r sets up an Eldarin culture where >such service is not the norm, is the g= ripe not with that depiction of >culture, not the resulting fact of the Fe= anorians doing chores? No I think my irritation has more to do with me no= t being able to imagine Feanor folding his own laundry or Maedhros sweepin= g the floor. As for depicting the culture, I think it comes down to the i= ndividual. We don't all have to have the same view on elvish culture nor d= o I think that all of us would "like" every depiction of elvish culture. I= am well aware that I have a very narrow view of elvish culture and tend t= o dismiss a large majority of fics as either treating elves as humans with= pointy ears or not "getting" elves even when they are not being treated a= s humans with pointy ears. But that's more personal taste than anything el= se. I mean who is to say that my interpretation of elves and elvish cultur= e is correct? Especially given how much anime I watch. A lot of people hav= e commented on how anime-ish some of my Silmarillion fanfiction are. It i= rritates the hell out of them but of course it makes perfect sense to me! = So yeah, in murky waters like this, it's all a matter of like and dislike.= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2430 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23282 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2009 01:55:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2009 01:55:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.176) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2009 01:55:22 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id y26so1067511ele.10 for ; Sun, 01 Feb 2009 17:55:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.11.137 with SMTP id t9mr447575ibt.49.1233539721344; Sun, 01 Feb 2009 17:55:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 20:55:21 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574c3ee837920461e5d8a4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: February 2009 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=u7VuWCd_22PRhe2l1EPx3h7mFiXp_MIriUTtK4xbxyQ3N1zMDRJi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325574c3ee837920461e5d8a4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, The newsletter for February is posted on our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2009.php We have posted the first news on this year's Back to Middle-earth Month project. In February, we are also seeking group volunteers, so we have descriptions of many of the areas where we're looking for help. Anyone interested in becoming more involved behind the scenes is encouraged to check this out and contact us if anything looks interesting! I've also pinch-hit for biography of Namo (Mandos), there is a new quote of the month to inspire you, and a summary of other events outside of the SWG that might interest. Have fun! :) Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325574c3ee837920461e5d8a4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The newsletter for February is posted on our website:
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2009.php

= We have posted the first news on this year's Back to Middle-earth Month= project. In February, we are also seeking group volunteers, so we have des= criptions of many of the areas where we're looking for help. Anyone int= erested in becoming more involved behind the scenes is encouraged to check = this out and contact us if anything looks interesting!

I've als= o pinch-hit for biography of Namo (Mandos), there is a new quote of the mon= th to inspire you, and a summary of other events outside of the SWG that mi= ght interest.

Have fun! :)

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--000325574c3ee837920461e5d8a4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2431 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38690 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2009 14:57:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2009 14:57:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.236) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2009 14:57:05 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2009 14:57:05 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2009 14:57:05 -0000 Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 14:57:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=FIrkDcAR_kXxrimAtA4XPcR1qbzbjYt_7I0-qba7PG2Ag0TIA73gfXrWSA X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked I have been pondering this question while suffering from some unreasonable= depression due to the lack of reviews for the latest chapter of my curren= t story. Due to the out there and experimental narrative style of the stor= y I knew that if I got just one reader for that story it would a mericle! = However, even knowing this I find myself just kind of depressed that no fe= lt motivated enough to leave a review after reading the latest chapter. So= which, got me thinking. Why do I write fanfiction? Is it because I have a= story to tell involving my favorite characters from my favorite work? Is = the story just for me? If it is just for me than why do I even bother putt= ing it out there on the internet? Is it because I want to share a story wi= th others? Is that why I am upset that no one left a review? I am certainl= y not going for popularity because if I did that I would write fanfiction = with Legolas in it. So what am I going for? I am still pondering these que= stions as I work up enthusiasm to start working chapter 4. But in the mean= time, I thought I would put the questions to this group and get other peop= les refrections on why they write fanfiction and what they want to get out= of a story when they put it out there in the internet. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2432 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63731 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2009 17:19:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2009 17:19:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f20.google.com) (209.85.217.20) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2009 17:19:15 -0000 X-Received: by gxk13 with SMTP id 13so1234459gxk.14 for ; Sat, 07 Feb 2009 09:19:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.15.73 with SMTP id j9mr501662iba.52.1234027154677; Sat, 07 Feb 2009 09:19:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:19:14 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532cb60329fbe04625756f7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=_WV6_4V68xFuJcKlRcbRNwF-Ohs0wh0v4ovTpqJmsyRBYJjcNds- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532cb60329fbe04625756f7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Tinni, It's funny that you bring this up because, last night, I wrote a post on my blog that touches on some of the same issues: http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/2009/02/on-writing-to-the-fanfic-market/ But, long story short, I personally write and post stories (fanfic or o-fic) for two different reasons. I write for myself. I write what keeps me awake at night and begs to be told. If no one is interested in what I'm writing, but I am in love with writing it, then I keep writing because, at that point, it's not about the audience. It's about what's fun and satisfying for me as a writer. But I don't *post* stories for myself. I post stories in order to find an audience for those stories. And this does motivate what I share and where. For example, when posting AMC on Tolkien archives, I was posting a chapter a week at four archives. When my free time got tighter, I had no problem cutting two of the archives from that list because, in one case, I had only gotten one comment on twenty-five or so chapters. I'm posting for an audience, so if there's no audience, I don't see much of a need to continue posting. Unfortunately, I think that the rewards associated with posting work are too easily conflated with the satisfaction of writing it, which is what I was complaining about on my blog post: When writers ignore what they *want* to write in favor of what will get them readers. So, in short, if you are enjoying your story, I hope that you keep writing it. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532cb60329fbe04625756f7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Tinni,

It's funny that you bring this up because, last night= , I wrote a post on my blog that touches on some of the same issues:
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/2009/02/on= -writing-to-the-fanfic-market/

But, long story short, I persona= lly write and post stories (fanfic or o-fic) for two different reasons. I w= rite for myself. I write what keeps me awake at night and begs to be told. = If no one is interested in what I'm writing, but I am in love with writ= ing it, then I keep writing because, at that point, it's not about the = audience. It's about what's fun and satisfying for me as a writer.<= br>
But I don't post stories for myself. I post stories in o= rder to find an audience for those stories. And this does motivate what I s= hare and where. For example, when posting AMC on Tolkien archives, I was po= sting a chapter a week at four archives. When my free time got tighter, I h= ad no problem cutting two of the archives from that list because, in one ca= se, I had only gotten one comment on twenty-five or so chapters. I'm po= sting for an audience, so if there's no audience, I don't see much = of a need to continue posting.

Unfortunately, I think that the rewa= rds associated with posting work are too easily conflated with the satisfac= tion of writing it, which is what I was complaining about on my blog post: = When writers ignore what they want to write in favor of what will ge= t them readers. So, in short, if you are enjoying your story, I hope that y= ou keep writing it. :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundwww.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org
--00221532cb60329fbe04625756f7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2433 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89840 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2009 22:27:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2009 22:27:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.157) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2009 22:27:05 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so356094ywr.28 for ; Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:27:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.15.205 with SMTP id l13mr648873iba.7.1234132024920; Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:27:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 17:27:04 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255760cef38a9804626fc085 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month 2009: Graphics Needed! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Pw9PKisL3MxuYEDTNjsTXm34lhRnnnCeBuZHjpOpyCy2LlTHkcVE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0003255760cef38a9804626fc085 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, Back to Middle-earth Month (B2MeM) is not until March, but that time is fast-approaching! This year's project is a creative challenge and has been described briefly in our February newsletter for all who are curious: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php#news As usual, we hope to recognize participants in the project by offering banners or icons to commemorate their involvement or serve as links to their projects. I know that this group has many talented artists and graphics artists, so I am putting out a cry to help to any who wish to help us out with this. At the minimum, we would like to have banners/icons for participants and banners/icons for participants who write or draw something for every prompt. In my wildest dreams, we also have a daily icon that fits each prompt. However, I recognize that this might not be possible on such short notice. We're pretty flexible where graphics are concerned. Icons should be 100px by 100px or smaller so that they can be used on sites like LiveJournal. Banners of any size are acceptable, although smaller file sizes are always ideal. Our strictest requirement is that banners/icons *cannot* use artwork that does not 1) belong to the artist making the banner/icon, 2) is not explicitly available for public use, including cropping/resizing/modification or 3) is not used with specific permission from the original artist, including freedom to crop/resize/modify or do whatever you need to do to make the image work. If you are interested in helping out or have any questions, please contact me privately at this address or at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Of course, there is no minimal contribution; even one banner or icon puts us one banner or icon closer to our goal and is very much appreciated. :) Thank you, and my best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0003255760cef38a9804626fc085 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Back to Middle-earth Month (B2MeM) is not until March, but = that time is fast-approaching! This year's project is a creative challe= nge and has been described briefly in our February newsletter for all who a= re curious:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newslett= er.php#news

As usual, we hope to recognize participants in the p= roject by offering banners or icons to commemorate their involvement or ser= ve as links to their projects. I know that this group has many talented art= ists and graphics artists, so I am putting out a cry to help to any who wis= h to help us out with this.

At the minimum, we would like to have b= anners/icons for participants and banners/icons for participants who write = or draw something for every prompt.

In my wildest dreams, we also ha= ve a daily icon that fits each prompt. However, I recognize that this might= not be possible on such short notice.

We're pretty flexible wh= ere graphics are concerned. Icons should be 100px by 100px or smaller so th= at they can be used on sites like LiveJournal. Banners of any size are acce= ptable, although smaller file sizes are always ideal. Our strictest require= ment is that banners/icons cannot use artwork that does not 1) belon= g to the artist making the banner/icon, 2) is not explicitly available for = public use, including cropping/resizing/modification or 3) is not used with= specific permission from the original artist, including freedom to crop/re= size/modify or do whatever you need to do to make the image work.

I= f you are interested in helping out or have any questions, please contact m= e privately at this address or at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT= org. Of course, there is no minimal contribution; even one banner or icon = puts us one banner or icon closer to our goal and is very much appreciated.= :)

Thank you, and my best regards to all,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0003255760cef38a9804626fc085-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2434 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54456 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2009 22:31:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2009 22:31:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.178) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2009 22:31:42 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p32so777145elf.0 for ; Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:31:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.15.10 with SMTP id i10mr235132iba.56.1234132301554; Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:31:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 17:31:41 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532ccc470a30b04626fd156 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: Back to Middle-earth Month 2009: Graphics Needed! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=L2OkYIcWWGXW4Tb06hGHewUpyyF6OJSUScMEimWKZCuxaK4jLFyt X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532ccc470a30b04626fd156 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also, for anyone who is able to make icons for the daily prompts, since they will be in reply to the prompts, then they will count for that day's prompt. ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532ccc470a30b04626fd156 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Also, for anyone who is able to make icons for the daily prompts, since the= y will be in reply to the prompts, then they will count for that day's = prompt. ;)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00221532ccc470a30b04626fd156-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2435 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18242 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2009 15:39:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2009 15:39:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.126) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2009 15:39:23 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2009 15:39:23 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2009 15:39:23 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:39:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=MWZdNEIIcUGhwpuGlexVaJTxu55QageCNLRWk2txALZ4mO0aor93NcCDwA X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Hmm... I kind of expected a bit more interest in this topic.... o well. We= ll Dawn for me personally it has gotten to the stage that the current stor= y *needs* to be told or I'll go insane. I mean, it's a story I thought of = even before I wrote my first Silmarillion fanfiction. It's something that'= s always been at the back of my mind and it has to come out or I'll go ins= ane. The difference between reviews and no reviews is a matter of short te= rm... how do I put it... appretiation isn't the right word but it's not th= e wrong word either. I mean, in the long run the number of reviews a fic r= eceives very little. I mean, one fanfic I wrote for an anime fandom has 30= 4 reviews on ff.net. But looking back I can't really explain the stories = popularity. But the stories I am really proud of... well... most of them o= nly have a handful of reviews. But that's the nature of the beast I guess.= Well here is something else to consider. Almost all fanfiction falls rou= ghly into one of two broad categories or a mix of both, 1. What happened o= r what else happened: this is where fanfiction authors expound on a situat= ion. E.g. People adding meat to the how Fingon rescued Maedhros story or w= hat Elladan and Elrohir were thinking as they walked the path of the dead.= or 2. What ifs: Where the fanfiction author changes the story. E.g. wha= t if there were ten walkers, what if such and such who were not shown to = be in a relationship in the story were actually deeply in love etc. Now pe= rsonally I think I am more fic type 1 than fic type 2. I don't like strayi= ng too far from the source material. Even when I am mixing Tolkien with my= ths and fairy tales like I do with Tales of Middle Earth (http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php? sid=3D425), which you = might say is a mix of 1 and 2 but I think they are more 1 than 2. Or at le= ast that's they way I wrote them. But what about others? Which category do= you think you fit into? Or am I taking too narrow a view of this? Is ther= e a category 3? Even 4? If so, what are they? -Tinni --- In Silmarillio= nWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > >= Hi, Tinni, > > It's funny that you bring this up because, last night, I w= rote a post on my > blog that touches on some of the same issues: > > htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/2009/02/on-writing-to- the-fanfic-m= arket/ > > But, long story short, I personally write and post stories (fan= fic or o-fic) > for two different reasons. I write for myself. I write wha= t keeps me awake > at night and begs to be told. If no one is interested i= n what I'm writing, > but I am in love with writing it, then I keep writin= g because, at that > point, it's not about the audience. It's about what's= fun and satisfying for > me as a writer. > > But I don't *post* stories = for myself. I post stories in order to find an > audience for those storie= s. And this does motivate what I share and where. > For example, when post= ing AMC on Tolkien archives, I was posting a chapter a > week at four arch= ives. When my free time got tighter, I had no problem > cutting two of the= archives from that list because, in one case, I had only > gotten one com= ment on twenty-five or so chapters. I'm posting for an > audience, so if th= ere's no audience, I don't see much of a need to continue > posting. > > = Unfortunately, I think that the rewards associated with posting work are t= oo > easily conflated with the satisfaction of writing it, which is what I= was > complaining about on my blog post: When writers ignore what they *w= ant* to > write in favor of what will get them readers. So, in short, if yo= u are > enjoying your story, I hope that you keep writing it. :) > > Dawn= > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2436 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30883 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2009 16:31:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2009 16:31:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.108) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2009 16:31:34 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 84905 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Feb 2009 16:31:33 -0000 Message-ID: <857816.84729.qm@web25005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: db647YcVM1l5KJx7iZNj5QbDH2RAnAVmuKyBvDY5li5P3tQhnPYH2r0I0JKeaIj5joQPeBW86jqxQFLtyEl9DGLKVPTIzUludhrZFd0TRK0M.MJthol8MqpsZGL5nL5apdo9MYPlNXKbfbzeTYuMV1XNvWuY3cccykWHMpuu5wVCBfgXhCBbNpjbvrS4JC_7s0oy0S.azQNNx9Y- X-Received: from [70.64.19.221] by web25005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:31:33 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:31:33 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Reply-To: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=VFBJlwg7cT9b-hwO7MMK8aYWQ5T2i4j7eb3WKiwljkBMMu7qEw X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- On Tue, 10/2/09, Tinni wrote: > 1. What = happened or what else happened: this is where > fanfiction > authors expou= nd on a situation. E.g. People adding meat to > the how > Fingon rescued M= aedhros story or what Elladan and Elrohir > were thinking as they walked th= e path of the dead. > > or > > 2. What ifs: Where the fanfiction author = changes the story. > E.g. what > if there were ten walkers, what if such a= nd such who were > not shown > to be in a relationship in the story were a= ctually deeply > in love etc. I usually go for type 3: exploration of thi= ngs Tolkien only mentioned in passing (or never mentioned at all), such as = daily life among the Vanyar or what actually happened in the First Age for = those long stretches of time completely ignored in QS. I like writing expa= nsive plots. The stranger and more heretical, the better. And while this = is something a writer can do with your type 2 listed above, it's impossible= with your type 1. Type 1 limits writing to within parameters already set = by Tolkien, which means you're only writing reactions or revisions to his e= stablished plot. I've been told both as a compliment and an insult that ma= ny of my stories are so far removed from Tolkien's established canon that i= f I were to change a few names and identifying details, they would be unrec= ognisable as Tolkien fanfiction. I take that as the greatest compliment of= all, because it's exactly what I'm trying to do. I didn't start writing T= olkien fanfiction because I wanted to further explore certain events or sce= nes he wrote. Fingon-rescuing-Maedhros was sufficiently done by Tolkien hi= mself, so I don't need to do that (outside of brief mentions here and there= in other situations). Instead, I was inspired to use his world as a start= ing point for something different. I know many people won't agree with it,= but honestly, that doesn't bother me in the least. The handful of people = who do like what I write it is more than enough. CGL From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2437 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65713 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2009 17:47:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2009 17:47:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2009 17:47:39 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.bcb.44ff8243 (65097) for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:47:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:47:25 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1234288045" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=X2CIDlGQh7uBFiV-saFjH55Ar7Quk0kDGXXOrA7r2Y0suQN-e3GJ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1234288045 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I kind of expected a bit more interest in this topic.... o well. I am extremely interested in the topic, but, unfortunately, in Tolkien fanfic circles I have become extremely shy about discussing it, because I so often have been told that I do it in the wrong way and for the wrong reasons. I do not know if other fandoms have so many people who claim there is a right and wrong reason for writing a story. But this one certainly has them. I don't have the emotional energy to defend myself right now. **************Nothing says I love you like flowers! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000001) -------------------------------1234288045 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = -------------------------------1234288045-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2438 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60291 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2009 22:01:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2009 22:01:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.126) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2009 22:01:24 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2009 22:01:24 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2009 22:01:24 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:01:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=ik7GxE5u5Od-ZflUxmPqsYvB_eSRfIY8DJ7lez1xAX7CAajzHXwGCM9jiw X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Your response intrigues me... there is a right and wrong reason to write f= anfiction in the Tolkien fandom? Wow! I never knew! --- In SilmarillionWri= tersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > > > > I kind o= f expected a bit more interest in this topic.... o > well. > > > I am e= xtremely interested in the topic, but, unfortunately, in Tolkien > fanfi= c circles I have become extremely shy about discussing it, because I so o= ften > have been told that I do it in the wrong way and for the wrong re= asons. I do > not know if other fandoms have so many people who claim the= re is a right and > wrong reason for writing a story. But this one certai= nly has them. I don't > have the emotional energy to defend myself right= now. > **************Nothing says I love you like flowers! Find a florist= near you > now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search? query=3Dflorist&ncid= =3Demlcntusyelp00000001) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2439 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90524 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2009 22:08:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2009 22:08:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s1.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.139) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2009 22:08:27 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W9 ([65.55.34.135]) by col0-omc3-s1.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:08:27 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_a7238076-6a90-49fe-9825-20eb310f51c8_" To: Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:08:26 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2009 22:08:27.0444 (UTC) FILETIME=[1983FF40:01C98BCC] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=OSZKP9PrMX1NjU6AVuhqxUEgnXwTEpTF6C6YvIzxJccz-t9ViDfu4A X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_a7238076-6a90-49fe-9825-20eb310f51c8_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm sorry you feel that way (that you cannot mention your ideas if you a= ren't prepared to defend them to the death), but I certainly understand the= reticence. Once burned, twice shy and all of that. At least you can keep= writing without having to justify yourself to people :). I will venture t= o (tentatively) say that while that might happen in this fandom...it doesn'= t usually happen *here*...does it? I think that many people believe Tol= kien's world is real. I don't mean we're all insane kooks who live in Midd= le Earth the way a psycho can live inside his head...but I do mean that we = take our fandom *far* more seriously than some other people take theirs. T= hat is where you get the 'how dare you' reaction to taking something that o= thers view as nearly sacred and using it for your own nefarious purposes. = Of course, what is held sacrosanct is their own particular view and interpr= etation, so it's hardly a matter of rationally discussing differences to re= solve the question. I am more willing to tiptoe around and be careful if I= admire the world/characters as written. If I think there are flaws, I wil= l happily alter things when I write my own stories. It might be my own bia= s, but I find fewer 'flaws' in Tolkien's world than in other fandoms, and a= m lessing willing to treat his characters as dolls I take out to play with = however I like. That doesn't, however, make my stories any 'better' - peop= le will either like them or not based on other reasons, such as whether or = not they're any good :P. Storytelling is an art, independent of fanfic, an= d one I am slow to learn. Personally, I think that people can write wha= tever they want. If it's not my cup of tea, I don't have to read it. I me= an, I like Tolkien's stories, so I read them. If someone else likes Tolkie= n's stories and romance novels, so wants to write a romance novel set in Mi= ddle Earth, they can knock themselves out. I've never picked up a romance = novel in real life, and don't even like Pride and Prejudice (*shock*, *horr= or*, I know...sorry. I don't like the Beatles very much either - I'm just = weird...moving on), so not surprisingly, I'm probably not going to be inter= ested. While I could quite honestly say that 'Tolkien would never have wri= tten that' - ummm, so what? The point of fanfic is to write something the = author never wrote. Fanfic is a legitimate way to indulge in swooning. *w= histles* My idea of an interesting 'romance' in fanfic is to take two cha= racters who would (as written) probably kill each other if they were put in= the same room together, and try to tease a convincing relationship out of = it (the less resorting to 'the aliens made me do it'/non-con the better). = So, something like a Lucius/Hermione pairing. I know plenty of other peopl= e are completely sickened by such ideas, and would consider that story a tr= avesty, since it is so obviously not what the author intended at all. But = if I want to read about Hermione and Ron getting together, I can just read = the original Harry Potter books anyway. I read fanfic because when I fi= nish a book I like or find interesting, something in me is very sad and reg= rets there not being *more* to the story. Depending on what I want more of= , I seek that out... If something in particular resonated with me about t= he characters or sparked an idea, I start exploring that idea and eventuall= y it might become a fanfic. Often I will start with an essay/diary reactio= n to the story that just bleeds into a fanfic vignette as the characters st= art speaking with their own voices rather than mine. Or there might be a c= ertain event or relationship in the story that demands more attention - som= e connection I've made that the author did not spend any time elaborating o= n. I don't generally catagorize what I write (I'm not particularly prolif= ic in this fandom, anyway). Some of it falls into the various categories m= entioned; simply expanding a scene or altering a point of view, creating ba= ckstory or some other 'unexplored vista', taking characters and throwing th= em into a new/unique circumstance of my own creation, imagining people grow= n up, or as kids, a 'what if' that alters the original plot significantly, = etc.. I don't think I've written a story that hinges on an original charac= ter yet, and I do tend to be pretty slavish to the details/background provi= ded by the author. So, I don't write everything, but there is some variety= . The reason is always the same, though - some idea attacked me, and putti= ng it down in a fanfic is one way of wrestling it into submission. ;) Fan= fic is written as a response to the source material, but it comes from the = authors, too. MithLuin -* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *- ** *-* |> | | | |\| *-= * ** * * God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from = the darkness. Genesis 1:4Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru cilt= an=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello. To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.c= omFrom: heartofoshun@aol.comDate: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:47:25 -0500Subject: R= e: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction? I kind o= f expected a bit more interest in this topic.... o well. I am extremely i= nterested in the topic, but, unfortunately, in Tolkien fanfic circles I hav= e become extremely shy about discussing it, because I so often have been to= ld that I do it in the wrong way and for the wrong reasons. I do not know i= f other fandoms have so many people who claim there is a right and wrong re= ason for writing a story. But this one certainly has them. I don't have the= emotional energy to defend myself right now. Nothing says I love you like= flowers! Find a florist near you now. __________________________________= _______________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. h= ttp://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009 --_a7238076-6a90-49fe-9825-20eb310f51c8_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
I'm sorry you feel that way (that you cannot mentio= n your ideas if you aren't prepared to defend them to the death), but I cer= tainly understand the reticence.  Once burned, twice shy and all of th= at.  At least you can keep writing without having to justify yourself = to people :).  I will venture to (tentatively) say that while that mig= ht happen in this fandom...it doesn't usually happen *here*...does it? = ;
 
I think that many people believe Tolkien's world is real.=   I don't mean we're all insane kooks who live in Middle Earth the way= a psycho can live inside his head...but I do mean that we take our fandom = *far* more seriously than some other people take theirs.  That is wher= e you get the 'how dare you' reaction to taking something that others view = as nearly sacred and using it for your own nefarious purposes.  Of cou= rse, what is held sacrosanct is their own particular view and interpretatio= n, so it's hardly a matter of rationally discussing differences to resolve = the question.  I am more willing to tiptoe around and be careful if I = admire the world/characters as written.  If I think there are flaws, I= will happily alter things when I write my own stories.  It might be m= y own bias, but I find fewer 'flaws' in Tolkien's world than in other fando= ms, and am lessing willing to treat his characters as dolls I take out to p= lay with however I like.  That doesn't, however, make my stories any '= better' - people will either like them or not based on other reasons, such = as whether or not they're any good :P.  Storytelling is an art, indepe= ndent of fanfic, and one I am slow to learn. 
 
Personal= ly, I think that people can write whatever they want.  If it's not my = cup of tea, I don't have to read it.  I mean, I like Tolkien's stories= , so I read them.  If someone else likes Tolkien's stories and romance= novels, so wants to write a romance novel set in Middle Earth, they can kn= ock themselves out.  I've never picked up a romance novel in real life= , and don't even like Pride and Prejudice (*shock*, *horror*, I know...sorr= y.  I don't like the Beatles very much either - I'm just weird...movin= g on), so not surprisingly, I'm probably not going to be interested.  = While I could quite honestly say that 'Tolkien would never have written tha= t' - ummm, so what?  The point of fanfic is to write something the aut= hor never wrote.  Fanfic is a legitimate way to indulge in swooning.&n= bsp; *whistles*
 
My idea of an interesting 'romance' in fanfi= c is to take two characters who would (as written) probably kill each other= if they were put in the same room together, and try to tease a convincing = relationship out of it (the less resorting to 'the aliens made me do it'/no= n-con the better).  So, something like a Lucius/Hermione pairing. = ; I know plenty of other people are completely sickened by such ideas, and = would consider that story a travesty, since it is so obviously not what the= author intended at all.  But if I want to read about Hermione and Ron= getting together, I can just read the original Harry Potter books anyway.&= nbsp;
 
I read fanfic because when I finish a book I lik= e or find interesting, something in me is very sad and regrets there not be= ing *more* to the story.  Depending on what I want more of, I seek tha= t out...   If something in particular resonated with me about the= characters or sparked an idea, I start exploring that idea and eventually = it might become a fanfic.  Often I will start with an essay/diary reac= tion to the story that just bleeds into a fanfic vignette as the characters= start speaking with their own voices rather than mine.  Or there migh= t be a certain event or relationship in the story that demands more attenti= on - some connection I've made that the author did not spend any time elabo= rating on. 

I don't generally catagorize what I write (I'm no= t particularly prolific in this fandom, anyway).  Some of it falls int= o the various categories mentioned; simply expanding a scene or altering a = point of view, creating backstory or some other 'unexplored vista', taking = characters and throwing them into a new/unique circumstance of my own creat= ion, imagining people grown up, or as kids, a 'what if' that alters the ori= ginal plot significantly, etc..  I don't think I've written a story th= at hinges on an original character yet, and I do tend to be pretty slavish = to the details/background provided by the author.  So, I don't write e= verything, but there is some variety.  The reason is always the same, = though - some idea attacked me, and putting it down in a fanfic is one way = of wrestling it into submission.  ;)  Fanfic is written as a resp= onse to the source material, but it comes from the authors, too. 
=  
MithLuin

-* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *-
** *-* |> = | | | |\| *-* **
* *

God saw that the light was good, and God s= eparated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4

= Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB = i morniello.









To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
From: heartofos= hun@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:47:25 -0500
Subject: Re: [Silma= rillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction?


 
I kind of expected a bit more interest in this topic.... o
well.=
I am extremely interested in t= he topic, but, unfortunately, in Tolkien fanfic circles I have become extre= mely shy about discussing it, because I so often have been told t= hat I do it in the wrong way and for the wrong reasons. I do not know = if other fandoms have so many people who claim there is a right and wrong r= eason for writing a story. But this one certainly has them. I don't have th= e emotional energy to defend myself right now.

Nothing says I love you like flowers! Find a florist near you now.
<= /DIV>


Wi= ndows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. Check i= t out. --_a7238076-6a90-49fe-9825-20eb310f51c8_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2440 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70221 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 02:17:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 02:17:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.190) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 02:17:16 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id j66so218135rne.18 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:17:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.20.65 with SMTP id e1mr520532ibb.1.1234318635789; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:17:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:17:15 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574746d36eea04629b3342 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=tcBzdMl7EREjnGKp2jloIgLP2Y97ShPpkQNTyPWnAr3zicWKXLG- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325574746d36eea04629b3342 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Tinni wrote: > Almost all fanfiction falls > roughly into one of two broad categories or a mix of both I, too, see fanfic as falling into two types (or strewn somewhere between the two), but they are very different from yours. :) I see people writing fanfic either for the stories or for the sources. As noted, these are not tidy, nor is this necessarily the only--much less correct!--way to look at it. People that write/read for the stories are like what CGL describes where a writer takes a bitty detail and makes up a story around it, i.e. the culture of the Valar or life in Aman before the Darkening. These people don't care so much about "canon" (even though they are often experts in it) as they do about presenting their own vision of Arda, which may be something completely different from what JRRT (or CT ;) describes. What matters here is the allure and believability of an imagined world that is inspired by Tolkien's. These people are more apt to wring their hands over characterization or Elven immunity than how (or if) Maedhros was fed on Thangorodrim according to the texts or how long he hung there (to use a recently discussed example). The latter group write/read for the sources. I often hear these people, describing their motivations, say, "I want more of the books! More of Middle-earth! More of the Rangers or the Noldor or the Wood-elves in Mirkwood!" As such, they like the stories they write and read to stay close to the sources, both in terms of canon and, to a lesser extent, style. They don't want to imagine poverty in Aman or Feanor as a noble hero because these things don't seem like stories that JRRT would have told. I think the problem arises when people from the first group read work by the second group (or vice versa) without realizing the difference in motivation as far as *why* the story was written. I've seen both sides make ugly accusations about the other. The first group likes to tell the second that they have no imagination. "If I want to read Tolkien," they say, "then I will read Tolkien. Not your half-assed attempt at imitating him." The second likes to call the first group disrespectful or heretical or ask them, "Why even write fanfic? Your world bears no resemblance to the original." I've seen both sets of accusations made; the conversations rarely end well. And, really, it's like arguing about whether white potatoes or sweet potatoes are better. They're both called "potatoes" and grow in a jacket in the ground, but there the resemblance ends. And arguing in favor of one won't change the tastes of a person who prefers the other. (What is it about fandom that always inspires food analogies?? ;) I know my stories belong solidly in the first group. This does not mean that I do not respect the second viewpoint, its authors, or that I dislike stories that fall more in this group than the other. Quite the opposite. But *my own* motivations for writing fanfic tend to revolve around answering questions (what was it like in the halls of Mandos?) or challenging the texts (what would Feanor's PoV of the story have been? what about all the unnamed women in the histories?) or developing characters or cultures that I find believable and intriguing with little or no information to go on. As such, few of my stories even concern events where one can open the book and point at a passage and say, "*There.* She is writing about *that* part there." I, too, have been told that if I changed the characters' names and a few details that made my stories recognizably Tolkien-based stories, then I could pass them off as original fiction. In fact, one of my long-time readers pretty much demanded this of my AU "For What I Wait"; it didn't work for her as a Tolkien story, but she thought it would make a lovely original story, and scolded me for passing up an opportunity in presenting it as a Tolkien story instead of trying publish it as o-fic. It was written for a request, though, so she was out of luck. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325574746d36eea04629b3342 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Tinni <sharminchoudhury@y= ahoo.com> wrote:
> Almost all fanfiction falls
>= roughly into one of two broad categories or a mix of both

=
I, too, see fanfic as falling into two types (or strewn somewhere betw= een the two), but they are very different from yours. :)
 <= /div>
I see people writing fanfic either for the stories or for the so= urces. As noted, these are not tidy, nor is this necessarily the only--much= less correct!--way to look at it.
 
People that= write/read for the stories are like what CGL describes where a writer take= s a bitty detail and makes up a story around it, i.e. the culture of the Va= lar or life in Aman before the Darkening. These people don't care so mu= ch about "canon" (even though they are often experts in it) as th= ey do about presenting their own vision of Arda, which may be something com= pletely different from what JRRT (or CT ;) describes. What matters here is = the allure and believability of an imagined world that is inspired by Tolki= en's. These people are more apt to wring their hands over characterizat= ion or Elven immunity than how (or if) Maedhros was fed on Thangorodrim acc= ording to the texts or how long he hung there (to use a recently discussed = example).
 
The latter group write/read for th= e sources. I often hear these people, describing their motivations, say, &q= uot;I want more of the books! More of Middle-earth! More of the Rangers or = the Noldor or the Wood-elves in Mirkwood!" As such, they like the stor= ies they write and read to stay close to the sources, both in terms of cano= n and, to a lesser extent, style. They don't want to imagine poverty in= Aman or Feanor as a noble hero because these things don't seem like st= ories that JRRT would have told.

I think the problem arises when pe= ople from the first group read work by the second group (or vice versa) wit= hout realizing the difference in motivation as far as why the story = was written. I've seen both sides make ugly accusations about the other= . The first group likes to tell the second that they have no imagination. &= quot;If I want to read Tolkien," they say, "then I will read Tolk= ien. Not your half-assed attempt at imitating him." The second likes t= o call the first group disrespectful or heretical or ask them, "Why ev= en write fanfic? Your world bears no resemblance to the original." I&#= 39;ve seen both sets of accusations made; the conversations rarely end well= . And, really, it's like arguing about whether white potatoes or sweet = potatoes are better. They're both called "potatoes" and grow = in a jacket in the ground, but there the resemblance ends. And arguing in f= avor of one won't change the tastes of a person who prefers the other. = (What is it about fandom that always inspires food analogies?? ;)

I= know my stories belong solidly in the first group. This does not mean that= I do not respect the second viewpoint, its authors, or that I dislike stor= ies that fall more in this group than the other. Quite the opposite. But my own motivations for writing fanfic tend to revolve around answering= questions (what was it like in the halls of Mandos?) or challenging the te= xts (what would Feanor's PoV of the story have been? what about all the= unnamed women in the histories?) or developing characters or cultures that= I find believable and intriguing with little or no information to go on. A= s such, few of my stories even concern events where one can open the book a= nd point at a passage and say, "There. She is writing about = that part there."

I, too, have been told that if I changed= the characters' names and a few details that made my stories recogniza= bly Tolkien-based stories, then I could pass them off as original fiction. = In fact, one of my long-time readers pretty much demanded this of my AU &qu= ot;For What I Wait"; it didn't work for her as a Tolkien story, bu= t she thought it would make a lovely original story, and scolded me for pas= sing up an opportunity in presenting it as a Tolkien story instead of tryin= g publish it as o-fic. It was written for a request, though, so she was out= of luck. :)

Dawn
 
--000325574746d36eea04629b3342-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2441 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29177 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 03:52:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 03:52:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 03:52:01 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2009 03:52:01 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2009 03:52:01 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 03:52:01 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <857816.84729.qm@web25005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=s7k51n-cDS8IDck7yfVNAmtlyisZHkJ8uNyxrZZdBlGiME84TSxmp67LqQ X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked See I would say that the fics you describe as more "what if" fics but you = are right in that in that the type of fic you describe can be a category o= f its own. Of course in terms of fics there is "harder" and "easier" and n= ot just for fanfic writers but professional writers as well. See I am cur= rently really into Bleach, both the manga and the anime. Now as it is an o= n going manga the anime studio has no choice but to use a lot of fillers, = just because a number of manga chapters are needed to produce a single ani= me episode. What are filler anime episodes? They aren't written by the ori= ginal creator. In the case of Bleach at least he doesn't seem to allow the= anime studio to reveal stuff that hasn't been mentioned in the manga yet.= So in a way, professional writers though they are, the writers of filler = manga episodes and often entire filler arcs, face the same problems and li= mitations as fanfiction writers. Indeed, at least one of the filler arcs f= elt very fanfictiony to me and not in a good way. But you know the studio= writers do this professionally. They do this not only for this one anime = but lots of anime. So how come they aren't any better than the average fan= fiction writer at it and are actually worse than some of the better fanfic= tion writers? The answer is quite simple. Because it is very hard to get i= nto the head of characters. Don't get me wrong, plot is hard to do but if = you don't get the tone of the characters right, whatever you produce feels= alien. Which is a great thing if that's the effect you are going for. Bu= t if you are not going for that effect... However, at the end of the day i= t is all personal perception. What I perceive to be alien might actually a= ppear perfectly seamless to another. While what I perceive to be seamless = might actually appear alien to another. Afterall, the only person you can'= t accuse to making a character appear out of character is the original cre= ator of the character and even then if the characters personality varies = dramatically... wel... --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, CG= L wrote: > > > > --- On Tue, 10/2/09, Tinni wrote: > > 1. What happened or what else happened: this is wher= e > > fanfiction > > authors expound on a situation. E.g. People adding me= at to > > the how > > Fingon rescued Maedhros story or what Elladan and El= rohir > > were thinking as they walked the path of the dead. > > > > or >= > > > 2. What ifs: Where the fanfiction author changes the story. > > E.g= . what > > if there were ten walkers, what if such and such who were > > n= ot shown > > to be in a relationship in the story were actually deeply > >= in love etc. > > > I usually go for type 3: exploration of things Tolkie= n only mentioned in passing (or never mentioned at all), such as daily lif= e among the Vanyar or what actually happened in the First Age for those l= ong stretches of time completely ignored in QS. > > I like writing expansi= ve plots. The stranger and more heretical, the better. And while this is= something a writer can do with your type 2 listed above, it's impossible = with your type 1. Type 1 limits writing to within parameters already set = by Tolkien, which means you're only writing reactions or revisions to his = established plot. > > I've been told both as a compliment and an insult th= at many of my stories are so far removed from Tolkien's established canon = that if I were to change a few names and identifying details, they would b= e unrecognisable as Tolkien fanfiction. I take that as the greatest comp= liment of all, because it's exactly what I'm trying to do. I didn't start= writing Tolkien fanfiction because I wanted to further explore certain ev= ents or scenes he wrote. Fingon-rescuing-Maedhros was sufficiently done b= y Tolkien himself, so I don't need to do that (outside of brief mentions h= ere and there in other situations). Instead, I was inspired to use his wo= rld as a starting point for something different. I know many people won't= agree with it, but honestly, that doesn't bother me in the least. The ha= ndful of people who do like what I write it is more than enough. > > CGL = > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2442 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28329 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 04:20:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 04:20:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s12.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.150) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 04:20:47 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W75 ([65.55.34.137]) by col0-omc3-s12.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:20:47 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_10031bac-fd3a-4418-83eb-d0365c857c89_" To: Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:20:48 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <857816.84729.qm@web25005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Feb 2009 04:20:47.0875 (UTC) FILETIME=[1D733D30:01C98C00] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=mUxz1_tCuMjIxGmohsDSV0sI58Ub4tARhf-PyVS59_ZtbabBPJLCew X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_10031bac-fd3a-4418-83eb-d0365c857c89_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What you are getting at is true of any adaptation - understanding your s= tory and your characters is essential if you are going to write scenes with= them in it. Even if you are just taking a manga that is already written a= nd adapting it to an anime, to do it well, you have to understand all the d= ynamics and what does and does not work for the characters. Sometimes, you= have to be more clever than the original author. Other times, you have to= respect decisions the author made because the story will not hang together= if you change things haphazardly. It is not just a matter of writing conv= incing gap-fillers, though mistakes tend to come out more glaringly there. = Some of the invented scenes for the LotR movies were very well done and ca= rried the story along well. Others...well...I think most of us would have = been fine if Aragorn hadn't taken a little tumble off that cliff or lopped = the head off the Mouth of Sauron, but anyway.... Last week, I read Tom Ha= rris' Red Dragon, and watched the second film adaptation of it. There had = been an earlier film called Manhunter in the 80's, but this was before Anth= ony Hopkins was cast as Hannibal Lecter. Anyway, it was interesting to see= what they kept and what they altered for the movie. Obviously, some of th= e backstory is trimmed down and simplified. Also, Hannibal Lecter's role i= s hugely beefed up, because, well....if you're going to put him in the movi= e, you have to use him. That alters his relationship with (and therefore t= he character of) Will Graham. But it was interesting to hear the director = speak about how they planned the ending. They kept the 'false climax' from= the book (the 1980's movie just ended with a rather routine shoot-out betw= een the cops and the badguy), but altered most of the details of the ending= - they decided inside a lit house with narrow hallways was creepier than o= utside in the dark. They wanted one character to be more heroic than in th= e book. They wanted the confrontation to demonstrate the killer's motives = a bit more clearly. Etc. So, they rewrote the whole scene, but it's a muc= h more authentic/faithful ending than the other one which was made up from = whole cloth with apparently little consideration for the story/characters. = It takes a lot of work to get inside a character's head and understand wh= at they would or would not do, how they talk, what their environment is act= ually like and what some of the overall themes or messages in a story might= be...but that's true of any type of writing. The only difference with fan= fic is that you can be critiqued in comparison to the original - if you wri= te original fic, it's harder for your readers to confidently say, 'your cha= racter would never do that', because, ummm...it's *your* character! Wherea= s we all have pretty definitive ideas of what some of Tolkien's characters = act/talk like, and can point to the original story if someone strays from t= hat path (and we are so inclined). In fandom, we are all peers, and the di= stinction between readers and writers is a bit blurred. But with any story= (regardless of whether or not it is fanfic), there may very well be scenes= that fail to convince - that is simply a sign of sloppy writing (or the wr= ong audience). MithLuin http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM= _WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 --_10031bac-fd3a-4418-83eb-d0365c857c89_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
What you are getting at is true of any adaptation -= understanding your story and your characters is essential if you are going= to write scenes with them in it.  Even if you are just taking a manga= that is already written and adapting it to an anime, to do it well, you ha= ve to understand all the dynamics and what does and does not work for the c= haracters.  Sometimes, you have to be more clever than the original au= thor.  Other times, you have to respect decisions the author made beca= use the story will not hang together if you change things haphazardly. = ; It is not just a matter of writing convincing gap-fillers, though mistake= s tend to come out more glaringly there.  Some of the invented scenes = for the LotR movies were very well done and carried the story along well.&n= bsp; Others...well...I think most of us would have been fine if Aragorn had= n't taken a little tumble off that cliff or lopped the head off the Mouth o= f Sauron, but anyway....
 
Last week, I read Tom Harris' Red D= ragon, and watched the second film adaptation of it.  There had been a= n earlier film called Manhunter in the 80's, but this was before Anthony Ho= pkins was cast as Hannibal Lecter.  Anyway, it was interesting to see = what they kept and what they altered for the movie.  Obviously, some o= f the backstory is trimmed down and simplified.  Also, Hannibal Lecter= 's role is hugely beefed up, because, well....if you're going to put him in= the movie, you have to use him.  That alters his relationship with (a= nd therefore the character of) Will Graham.  But it was interesting to= hear the director speak about how they planned the ending.  They kept= the 'false climax' from the book (the 1980's movie just ended with a rathe= r routine shoot-out between the cops and the badguy), but altered most of t= he details of the ending - they decided inside a lit house with narrow hall= ways was creepier than outside in the dark.  They wanted one character= to be more heroic than in the book.  They wanted the confrontation to= demonstrate the killer's motives a bit more clearly.  Etc.  So, = they rewrote the whole scene, but it's a much more authentic/faithful endin= g than the other one which was made up from whole cloth with apparently lit= tle consideration for the story/characters. 

It takes a lot o= f work to get inside a character's head and understand what they would or w= ould not do, how they talk, what their environment is actually like and wha= t some of the overall themes or messages in a story might be...but that's t= rue of any type of writing.  The only difference with fanfic is that y= ou can be critiqued in comparison to the original - if you write original f= ic, it's harder for your readers to confidently say, 'your character would = never do that', because, ummm...it's *your* character!  Whereas we all= have pretty definitive ideas of what some of Tolkien's characters act/talk= like, and can point to the original story if someone strays from that path= (and we are so inclined).  In fandom, we are all peers, and the disti= nction between readers and writers is a bit blurred.  But with any sto= ry (regardless of whether or not it is fanfic), there may very well be scen= es that fail to convince - that is simply a sign of sloppy writing (or the = wrong audience). 
 
MithLuin

-* -- |> |_ /|\ = |\| -- *-
** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* **
* *

God saw that th= e light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness. Genesi= s 1:4

Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, a= r Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello.






> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
> From: sharmi= nchoudhury@yahoo.com
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 03:52:01 +0000
> = Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction?
>=
> See I would say that the fics you describe as more "what if" fics= but
> you are right in that in that the type of fic you describe ca= n be a
> category of its own.
>
> Of course in terms of= fics there is "harder" and "easier" and not
> just for fanfic write= rs but professional writers as well. See I am
> currently really int= o Bleach, both the manga and the anime. Now as it
> is an on going m= anga the anime studio has no choice but to use a lot
> of fillers, j= ust because a number of manga chapters are needed to
> produce a sin= gle anime episode. What are filler anime episodes? They
> aren't wri= tten by the original creator. In the case of Bleach at
> least he do= esn't seem to allow the anime studio to reveal stuff that
> hasn't b= een mentioned in the manga yet. So in a way, professional
> writers = though they are, the writers of filler manga episodes and
> often en= tire filler arcs, face the same problems and limitations as
> fanfic= tion writers. Indeed, at least one of the filler arcs felt very
> fa= nfictiony to me and not in a good way.
>
> But you know the st= udio writers do this professionally. They do this
> not only for thi= s one anime but lots of anime. So how come they
> aren't any better = than the average fanfiction writer at it and are
> actually worse th= an some of the better fanfiction writers? The answer
> is quite simp= le. Because it is very hard to get into the head of
> characters. Do= n't get me wrong, plot is hard to do but if you don't
> get the tone= of the characters right, whatever you produce feels
> alien. Which = is a great thing if that's the effect you are going for.
> But if yo= u are not going for that effect...
>
> However, at the end of = the day it is all personal perception. What I
> perceive to be alien= might actually appear perfectly seamless to
> another. While what I= perceive to be seamless might actually appear
> alien to another. A= fterall, the only person you can't accuse to
> making a character ap= pear out of character is the original creator of
> the character and= even then if the characters personality varies
> dramatically... we= l...
>
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, CGL =
> wrote:
> >
> >
> &= gt;
> > --- On Tue, 10/2/09, Tinni w= rote:
> > > 1. What happened or what else happened: this is whe= re
> > > fanfiction
> > > authors expound on a sit= uation. E.g. People adding meat to
> > > the how
> > = > Fingon rescued Maedhros story or what Elladan and Elrohir
> >= > were thinking as they walked the path of the dead.
> > > =
> > > or
> > >
> > > 2. What ifs: Wh= ere the fanfiction author changes the story.
> > > E.g. what > > > if there were ten walkers, what if such and such who were<= BR>> > > not shown
> > > to be in a relationship in t= he story were actually deeply
> > > in love etc.
> > <= BR>> >
> > I usually go for type 3: exploration of things T= olkien only
> mentioned in passing (or never mentioned at all), such= as daily life
> among the Vanyar or what actually happened in the F= irst Age for those
> long stretches of time completely ignored in QS= .
> >
> > I like writing expansive plots. The stranger a= nd more heretical,
> the better. And while this is something a write= r can do with your
> type 2 listed above, it's impossible with your = type 1. Type 1 limits
> writing to within parameters already set by = Tolkien, which means
> you're only writing reactions or revisions to= his established plot.
> >
> > I've been told both as a = compliment and an insult that many of my
> stories are so far remove= d from Tolkien's established canon that if I
> were to change a few = names and identifying details, they would be
> unrecognisable as Tol= kien fanfiction. I take that as the greatest
> compliment of all, be= cause it's exactly what I'm trying to do. I
> didn't start writing T= olkien fanfiction because I wanted to further
> explore certain even= ts or scenes he wrote. Fingon-rescuing-Maedhros
> was sufficiently d= one by Tolkien himself, so I don't need to do that
> (outside of bri= ef mentions here and there in other situations).
> Instead, I was in= spired to use his world as a starting point for
> something differen= t. I know many people won't agree with it, but
> honestly, that does= n't bother me in the least. The handful of people
> who do like what= I write it is more than enough.
> >
> > CGL
> >= ;
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------= -------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To = visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S= ilmarillionWritersGuild/
>
> <*> Your email settings:> Individual Email | Traditional
>
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>
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>
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= >
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>


Windows Live=99= : E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. Check it out. --_10031bac-fd3a-4418-83eb-d0365c857c89_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2443 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91537 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 08:18:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 08:18:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.236) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 08:18:02 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2009 08:18:02 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2009 08:18:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:18:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=K1V314ACABln0_7VDfL6ekQ_SGwqctCY03Tin72NDApeoESc7UJ0W-qDbA X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked You are absolutely right. Adapting anything is very hard, often coming dow= n to "do you preserve the spirit" or "do you make it work within the conte= xt of the new adaptation" and of course there is the whole "what do you wa= nt out of the adaptation". One of the reasons I did not like Peter Jackson= 's "Return of the King" much was because I felt it violated the spirit of = the book. The characters were too aggressive, too... well too much hollywo= od action heros and less Tolkien's heros. Now I am sure part of the change= was necessary to make the film work as a film but I am sure a lot of the = changes were made to make the film more... appealing to fans, fans who mig= ht not fully appreciate the kind of heros Tolkien originally wrote about. = A lot has changed in the last 50 years and many people might not "get" wh= at makes the book Frodo heroic. But I guess that's also the charm of writi= ng fanfiction. You get to filter the original story the way you see it. Bu= t of course, no one said that people who read your fanfiction would see th= e story the way you intend it to. I mean, going back to Bleach the anime,= there is a character in Bleach who is quite popular, especially with the = female fans. This shocked and surprised the creator of Bleach, who was try= ing to make that particular character out to be creepy and offputting in = appearance. Now that's what he intended but fans didn't take it that way, = or rather while the character in question is undoubtly a very creepy perso= n, this creepiness seems to have enhanced his appeal among the fans. And i= f a fan writes a story from the "I really like this guy" point of view and= not the "he's a creepy evil basterd" point of view, than is the character= out of character? -Tinni PS. Just going back a few posts, I was just thi= nking that another reason I write fanfiction is to make stuff happen that = didn't happen/or might not happen that I really want/wanted to happen. --= - In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Marie Prosser wrote: > > > > What you are getting at is true of any adaptation - und= erstanding your story and your characters is essential if you are going to= write scenes with them in it. Even if you are just taking a manga that i= s already written and adapting it to an anime, to do it well, you have to= understand all the dynamics and what does and does not work for the chara= cters. Sometimes, you have to be more clever than the original author. O= ther times, you have to respect decisions the author made because the stor= y will not hang together if you change things haphazardly. It is not just= a matter of writing convincing gap-fillers, though mistakes tend to come = out more glaringly there. Some of the invented scenes for the LotR movies= were very well done and carried the story along well. Others...well...I = think most of us would have been fine if Aragorn hadn't taken a little tum= ble off that cliff or lopped the head off the Mouth of Sauron, but anyway.= ... > > Last week, I read Tom Harris' Red Dragon, and watched the second = film adaptation of it. There had been an earlier film called Manhunter i= n the 80's, but this was before Anthony Hopkins was cast as Hannibal Lecte= r. Anyway, it was interesting to see what they kept and what they altered= for the movie. Obviously, some of the backstory is trimmed down and simp= lified. Also, Hannibal Lecter's role is hugely beefed up, because, well..= ..if you're going to put him in the movie, you have to use him. That alte= rs his relationship with (and therefore the character of) Will Graham. Bu= t it was interesting to hear the director speak about how they planned the= ending. They kept the 'false climax' from the book (the 1980's movie jus= t ended with a rather routine shoot-out between the cops and the badguy), = but altered most of the details of the ending - they decided inside a lit = house with narrow hallways was creepier than outside in the dark. They w= anted one character to be more heroic than in the book. They wanted the c= onfrontation to demonstrate the killer's motives a bit more clearly. Etc.= So, they rewrote the whole scene, but it's a much more authentic/faithfu= l ending than the other one which was made up from whole cloth with appare= ntly little consideration for the story/characters. > It takes a lot of = work to get inside a character's head and understand what they would or wo= uld not do, how they talk, what their environment is actually like and wha= t some of the overall themes or messages in a story might be...but that's = true of any type of writing. The only difference with fanfic is that you = can be critiqued in comparison to the original - if you write original fic= , it's harder for your readers to confidently say, 'your character would = never do that', because, ummm...it's *your* character! Whereas we all hav= e pretty definitive ideas of what some of Tolkien's characters act/talk li= ke, and can point to the original story if someone strays from that path (= and we are so inclined). In fandom, we are all peers, and the distinction= between readers and writers is a bit blurred. But with any story (regard= less of whether or not it is fanfic), there may very well be scenes that f= ail to convince - that is simply a sign of sloppy writing (or the wrong au= dience). > > MithLuin > http://windowslive.com/explore? ocid=3DTXT_TAGL= M_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2444 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8091 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 12:35:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 12:35:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 12:35:37 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2009 12:35:37 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2009 12:35:37 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:35:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=n2NiF0Fl4qdCfDbXIjDTO3G_mIGN9UD-9nTFW1QmnBngERuAnoNo4Cbi X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > I see people writing fanfic either for the stories or fo= r the sources. As > noted, these are not tidy, nor is this necessarily the = only--much less > correct!--way to look at it. Although I suspect there ar= e as many reasons for writing fanfic as there are writers engaging in the a= ctivity, if one is going to parse these into two gigantic bins, then your d= esignations reflect my overall view. > > People that write/read for the= stories are like what CGL describes where a > writer takes a bitty detail = and makes up a story around it, i.e. the culture > of the Valar or life in = Aman before the Darkening. And I would not consider these "what if" scena= rios (referring to a comment made by Tinni elsewhere). The text is silent = on these matters, so to be precise, it's a matter of "filling in" (an inade= quate description but I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet). Tolkien, = in his letter to Peter Hastings, said that one would have to enter Middle-e= arth and study its biology with regard to the indefinite longevity of a cer= tain race of humans. By extension, those of us who write/read for the stor= ies (category 1), also enter Middle-earth to study its cultures and mores. = These people don't care > so much about "canon" (even though they are of= ten experts in it) as they do > about presenting their own vision of Arda, = which may be something completely > different from what JRRT (or CT ;) desc= ribes. Exactly. I approach Arda from a starkly different philosophical fr= amework than the original author and his editor. I also take to heart Tolk= ien's mythopoeia -- his desire to create a mythology -- and I treat his wor= ks as mythology no less than the grand (and often canonically murky) tales = of Graeco-Roman mythology, rather than orthodox authorial canon. What m= atters here is the > allure and believability of an imagined world that is = inspired by Tolkien's. Exactly! See comment on mythology above. > These = people are more apt to wring their hands over characterization or > Elven i= mmunity than how (or if) Maedhros was fed on Thangorodrim according > to th= e texts or how long he hung there (to use a recently discussed > example). = Ha! I resemble that remark! > > The latter group write/read for the so= urces. I often hear these people, > describing their motivations, say, "I w= ant more of the books! More of > Middle-earth! More of the Rangers or the N= oldor or the Wood-elves in > Mirkwood!" As such, they like the stories they= write and read to stay close > to the sources, both in terms of canon and,= to a lesser extent, style. They > don't want to imagine poverty in Aman or= Feanor as a noble hero because > these things don't seem like stories that= JRRT would have told. These can be done very well, too. The key features= still hold: good writing, good story-telling, and good characterization. = Simply adhering to canon without all three of those components all too ofte= n results in a flat, stiff story, just as disregarding the same in category= 1 results in an inferior product. With regard to motivations, I have alwa= ys questioned and challenged ideas, part of my inherent skepticism which ha= s served me well in my profession (in fact, that is expected of me). When = I first read Tolkien's works, I was wide-eyed and accepting of them. Now, = I read them with a critical eye. I could write a spate of critical essays= , but those aren't nearly as much fun as writing fan fiction. Additionally,= I like to challenge the reader, that is, present multiple ways of viewing = JRRT's legendarium. It's also a challenge to see if I can create original = characters who will engage the reader. > > I, too, have been told that= if I changed the characters' names and a few > details that made my storie= s recognizably Tolkien-based stories, then I > could pass them off as origi= nal fiction. Me, too, and like CGL, I took that as a compliment. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2445 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1995 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 15:01:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 15:01:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.184) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 15:01:23 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id j42so227472rne.20 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:01:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.150.157.17 with SMTP id f17mr2147908ybe.49.1234364482933; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:01:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:01:22 -0600 Message-ID: <511ea890902110701l18ff6c67odbfb52dc1e2975fb@mail.gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] room/house styles of elves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=TF8jKGhg5qKq0aDtf0op5m9WGkG1oL3_9Eb4Pzz3e_rxAIW4UAM X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex I am one of the guilty parties who doesn't give Feanor servants. I do let other Elven lords and families have them; there are only a couple of exceptions, actually --- I've even got Elrond having a butler and a nanny and some maids and stuff when I get into those later years. I do believe the two that I specifically don't have servants for are Feanor, and then later Glorfindel's House. Feanor's reason-- the dude is paranoid. Maybe he had some early on, but after a while, I just had this expectation that he would have dismissed them, probably one by one, for things like, being too close to the room he kept the Silmarils in or saying something nice about one of his half-brothers or a million other things that could piss him off. Stability is not a word often seen a sentence with Feanor's name in it. As for Glorfindel, that's my attempt at adding layers as to what sort of things he might have done to make him worthy of songs and named as beloved of Gondolin above any other elves who perished in the fall. I can see him as hiring a lot of people to do various thing, but not quite in the way of having a full staff of servants like I have the other Gondolin lords having. Of course, that's just in the main continuity I play in -- I've done one-shots where he has them. I actually read through a couple of books on the topic and then used the series 'Manor House' and then some 'Life in a Medieval Castle' videos to get a better idea on the subject when I started to drift out of the Third Age and back toward the First Age. Mostly, the tip off for me was if Thranduil has a butler, everyone had a butler. Unless you were paranoid, or killed a balrog and then got pulled off a cliff. So, unfortunately for Celegorm (and his brothers), they better keep their own rooms clean. Final thought -- I could see this as being another reason why Nerdanel left Mr. Paranoid. Feanor: Good news, dear! I dismissed all of the servants -- now you will never have fear of boredom! There shall be cooking, and cleaning, and sewing, and-- Nerdanel: What?! Have you lost your mind?! Feanor: and... no. They were trying to steal my shiny things! Nerdanel: *blinks* I'll be at mother's house. Call me when you find your sanity. ...or something like that. -Zhie On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 6:14 AM, Tinni wrote: > I have been noticing something in Silmarillion fanfiction of late. It > seems to me that fanfic writers trying to describe the day to day > lives of elves in Aman seem to fall into the pitfall of transposing > life as we know it today to Aman. I.e. I kept getting the impression > that a lot of fanfiction writers were super imposing suburbane houses > into Aman. Few of the chief things that have struck me, > > 1. House hold chores: I rather doubt any of the sons of Feanor > cleaned there own room, ever! By cleaning I do mean dusting of > shelves, moping of floors, although I am sure they did arrange their > own books on the said shelf. > > 2. Servants: I am sure Feanor had a lot of servants. I get the > feeling that a lot of fanfic writers are uncomfortable with the idea > of servants. Possible because servants do have a negative conotation > to a lot of people. I assure you servant just means someone whose > duty it is to provide domestic service. There is nothing inheriently > negative about being a servant. > > 3. Size of houses: This is a bit more umm... oblique. To begin with I > am sure Feanor, Fingolfin and other would have had multi-bedroom > mansons with many live-in servants and their families. But I kind of > got the impression the houses of the lords were like the houses of > the old lords during the Middle Ages. You know, almost a town within > castle walls. I got this from Rivendell's description as the Last > Homely Home east of the great sea, which implies that there are more > Homely Homes west of the great sea. > > Last point I thought I would mention is cooking. The question is > would Nardanel and others be cooking on a daily basis. This is > complicated. Because 1) Ladies of the houses did used cook/closely > supervise cooking in South Asia, but 2) I am not sure of the status > of cooking in the west. I got the impression from reading Jane > Austin, the daughter of the house being needed to cook usually > indicated that the family was not quite as well off as they should > be. I am not sure. > > Anyway, any comments? Am I the only one who thinks that modern > subarbia is making an appearance in Aman? Do people think life in > Aman was like modern suburbia? > > -- Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2446 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50543 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 15:53:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 15:53:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25007.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.110) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 15:53:51 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 55916 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Feb 2009 15:53:50 -0000 Message-ID: <99739.55012.qm@web25007.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: G1IASQ0VM1k9D3hz2m57yVCIMuU_.x7SS_C4M0ZKwp6nKG.40JOG1DR0VwNPf_IoP1wCRfzabM4TAWSWhDkvOkcn5RBp1jOPBFZw3rhKo_Yk7r.amZ4T.2u3l_eXaiNqPY.ZH_qDs4qnkLcC0EKe1MEG5koi8b5LJAfHzVEAolszinLLnjl7pNudFvq4NfEgrgYaDxTIk1aml70- X-Received: from [70.64.19.221] by web25007.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:53:49 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:53:49 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Reply-To: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=3C_8adZoJtxuSe1k9lTQS6ldZg6yUiLdOQyD0KSz1AqNjdaPdQ X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- On Tue, 10/2/09, Tinni wrote: > See I wo= uld say that the fics you describe as more > "what if" fics but > you are = right in that in that the type of fic you describe > can be a category of i= ts own. I don't see them as 'what if's at all. 'What if's, to me, are the= true AUs that change some aspect of Tolkien's established plot, such as th= e Tenth Walker you mentioned, or Boromir living, or Feanor never having mad= e the Silmarilli. You can't really call a fill-in-the-gaps story a 'what i= f' because there's no established plot to change. > The answer > is quite= simple. Because it is very hard to get into the > head of > characters. D= on't get me wrong, plot is hard to do but > if you don't > get the tone of= the characters right, whatever you produce > feels alien. I don't this ch= aracterisation argument can really be applied to QS fiction, because Tolkie= n provides essentially no characterisation. Outside of a few sweeping gene= ralisations of Elves being 'noble' or Maglor feeling remorse at suchandsuch= a time, what are we really given about characters? Feanor is proud and wi= lful. Is he going to be proud and wilful every single moment of his life? = No; that's ludicrous. Celegorm has a quick temper, and Finrod is kind and= fair, but you can't have characters acting this way all the time or else t= hey become flat and dull. Sometimes Celegorm is going to be nice to somebo= dy, and sometimes Finrod will do something selfish. Unless you have them d= oing something weird (Celegorm constantly bursting into tears over the slig= htest bit of hardship, Finrod putting babies on spikes), it's *incredibly d= ifficult* to say without a doubt that Silmarillion characters are acting 'O= OC'. Everything is far too wide open. It's very different than writing F= rodo and Sam, whose characters are very clearly defined. Of course Silmfic= stories need characterisation. But most of that is going to come from the= author, seeing as we have so little to go on. As long as it's consistent,= reasonable, and well-developed, the exact traits assigned each character a= nd how they coincide with the few canon examples given may not necessarily = be that important. I think a big problem we have here is that, because Tol= kien gave no characterisation to speak of, everyone has invented their own = ideas of who these people are and how they act. In the absence of real gui= delines, the ideas are all wildly different. So while LotR writers can gen= erally agree on how Frodo will act in Situation A, the same cannot be said = for QS writers on how Fingon will act in Situation B. The way I write Fing= on will be different from how Oshun writes Fingon, which is again different= from Dawn's version, and from yours. As long as they're all internally co= nsistent and not wildly out of line (I don't suppose Fingon would put babie= s on spikes any sooner than would Finrod), they're all right. CGL = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2447 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11264 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 15:54:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 15:54:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.251) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 15:54:03 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b2so139668ana.10 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:54:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.15.74 with SMTP id j10mr1446533iba.48.1234367642737; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:54:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <857816.84729.qm@web25005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:54:02 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532cba0de1a990462a69c80 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=80mR9RS8Z5AWFrQyyma32I2pCYnLBpEpR-jSH1HwatomR94mQ9O1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532cba0de1a990462a69c80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Tinni wrote: > So how come they > aren't any better than the average fanfiction writer at it and are > actually worse than some of the better fanfiction writers? The answer > is quite simple. Because it is very hard to get into the head of > characters. Don't get me wrong, plot is hard to do but if you don't > get the tone of the characters right, whatever you produce feels > alien. How would you see *The Silmarillion* and fan-written adaptations of *The Silmarillion* fitting into this? The reason I bring this up is because we have very little--or, sometimes, nothing at all--to go with in terms of characterization in *The Silmarillion.* For example, the name *Maedhros*appears just 88 times in the Silm. He's one of the most prevalent in the original source--and also one of the most written-about (there are 83 stories listing him as a character on the SWG archive, or slightly less than 22% of stories there). Hence, I increasingly feel like the pejorative "OOC!" term, with respect to Silm-based fiction, is right up there with "slash" and "canon" and "AU" on my list of terms that are overused and misused so much in this fandom that I question whether they have any meaning anymore. For example, when I put *Another Man's Cage* up on ff.net, I was told by one reader that my Feanor was "OOC." He was "OOC," apparently, because, in the Years of Bliss in Aman, he hugged his children and was usually a pleasant person to be around and kept his wilding to a minimum. Can we infer that based on what is said in the texts? I don't think so. But if we can't infer that about Feanor (who is mentioned 194 times in the text, without counting "sons of Feanor," for anyone who is wondering ;), then how can we make that inference about *anyone *beyond the most basic of defining traits that JRRT invested his characters with? (I.e., Feanor = proud, talented, snarky) My point in all of this (and not necessarily aimed at you, Tinni, because I don't know that this is even in answer to any point that you were making about the Silm fandom; however, I think most of us can attest that it's one commonly made) is that the idea that the success of a fanfic hinges on believability within the original author's invented world. Characterization is often pointed out as one of--if not the--most important aspects of creating such believability. But, when the characterization to start is skeletal, this idea gets stickier. What, then, keeps our work matched to the original? Or, put more directly, are the "characterizations" that are often used as the basis for deciding "OOC"/"not OOC" really anything that JRRT/CT wrote, or are they fanon, the result of writing in a community that is also a very social one? Or just personal preference/interpretation that comes from counting Middle-earth as almost a second home, as MithLuin suggested? Because writing Feanor as "proud, talented, snarky" is not hard; he's not even a character so much as an archetype; he's all throughout literature under various names (which I'm sure would make him happy ;). He doesn't begin as particularly nuanced, although I think that fan interpretations of him certainly make him so. Does "OOC" have much meaning when talking about Silmfic? Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532cba0de1a990462a69c80 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Tinni <sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So how come they
> aren't any better than t= he average fanfiction writer at it and are
> actually worse than so= me of the better fanfiction writers? The answer
> is quite simple. B= ecause it is very hard to get into the head of
> characters. Don'= ;t get me wrong, plot is hard to do but if you don't
> get the = tone of the characters right, whatever you produce feels
> alien.
 
How would you see The Silmarillion and = fan-written adaptations of The Silmarillion fitting into this? The= reason I bring this up is because we have very little--or, sometimes, noth= ing at all--to go with in terms of characterization in The Silmarillion= . For example, the name Maedhros appears just 88 times in the= Silm. He's one of the most prevalent in the original source--and also = one of the most written-about (there are 83 stories listing him as a charac= ter on the SWG archive, or slightly less than 22% of stories there).
=
 
Hence, I increasingly feel like the pejorative= "OOC!" term, with respect to Silm-based fiction, is right up the= re with "slash" and "canon" and "AU" on my li= st of terms that are overused and misused so much in this fandom that I que= stion whether they have any meaning anymore. For example, when I put An= other Man's Cage up on ff.net, I was= told by one reader that my Feanor was "OOC." He was "OOC,&q= uot; apparently, because, in the Years of Bliss in Aman, he hugged his chil= dren and was usually a pleasant person to be around and kept his wilding to= a minimum. Can we infer that based on what is said in the texts? I don'= ;t think so.
 
But if we can't infer that a= bout Feanor (who is mentioned 194 times in the text, without counting "= ;sons of Feanor," for anyone who is wondering ;), then how can we make= that inference about anyone beyond the most basic of defining tra= its that JRRT invested his characters with? (I.e., Feanor =3D proud, t= alented, snarky)
 
My point in all of this (and= not necessarily aimed at you, Tinni, because I don't know that this is= even in answer to any point that you were making about the Silm fandom; ho= wever, I think most of us can attest that it's one commonly made) is th= at the idea that the success of a fanfic hinges on believability within the= original author's invented world. Characterization is often pointed ou= t as one of--if not the--most important aspects of creating such believabil= ity. But, when the characterization to start is skeletal, this idea gets st= ickier. What, then, keeps our work matched to the original?
&nb= sp;
Or, put more directly, are the "characterizations"= that are often used as the basis for deciding "OOC"/"not OO= C" really anything that JRRT/CT wrote, or are they fanon, the result o= f writing in a community that is also a very social one? Or just personal p= reference/interpretation that comes from counting Middle-earth as almost a = second home, as MithLuin suggested?
 
Because w= riting Feanor as "proud, talented, snarky" is not hard; he's = not even a character so much as an archetype; he's all throughout liter= ature under various names (which I'm sure would make him happy ;). He d= oesn't begin as particularly nuanced, although I think that fan interpr= etations of him certainly make him so.
 
Does &= quot;OOC" have much meaning when talking about Silmfic?
&nb= sp;
Dawn
 
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felag= und
www.silmarillion= writersguild.org
--00221532cba0de1a990462a69c80-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2448 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74147 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 15:55:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 15:55:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.109) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 15:55:43 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 64383 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Feb 2009 15:55:42 -0000 Message-ID: <554976.59428.qm@web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: TJG5lyEVM1nowhfyeApwaGJhIiKgd0mSK0abMBiUo361zhmjw4gu58sgfRxech.O6Gi688gpPZZIn8LkMnGzNqeijNNyJdc37Va3g7Op_GmC.GjacxKoEXJgjx.XRkgZE0eSohBAa9g1atznLUlSjKF84zfNzegTW1iUWPD5pM7NbUslBN9UhoUErjWcOhPpyFf4ubjiG_JSZzI- X-Received: from [70.64.19.221] by web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:55:42 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:55:42 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=-eWN0Cxg9R1LVosxOiDxMLgoJiixuygoyE9kkJYDp3TnpK241w X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- On Wed, 11/2/09, Dawn Felagund wrote: > Do= es "OOC" have much meaning when talking about Silmfic? Ha! Post twins. C= GL =A0 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2449 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82492 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 15:58:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 15:58:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.153) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 15:58:02 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so133774ywr.68 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:58:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.19.204 with SMTP id c12mr1741984ibb.39.1234367881479; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:58:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <99739.55012.qm@web25007.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <99739.55012.qm@web25007.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:58:01 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532cf6c1908580462a6abe2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uxxC_AVVn-WrJWTTEmfC1tZ7xmENMDf_I0TZ8XHAou-hIk0lD2qJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532cf6c1908580462a6abe2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CGL, we must be brainsharing. I clicked SEND about two seconds after your message popped into my inbox. And now I just got your second post too ... Okay, I'm going to lunch before I subject you to this any further! ;) Dawn PS--I agree with all of your points, too ... -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532cf6c1908580462a6abe2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
CGL, we must be brainsharing. I clicked SEND about two seconds after your message popped into my inbox.
 
And now I just got your second post too ...
 
Okay, I'm going to lunch before I subject you to this any further! ;)
 
Dawn
 
PS--I agree with all of your points, too ...
 
--00221532cf6c1908580462a6abe2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2450 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43483 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 19:33:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 19:33:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 19:33:43 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2009 19:33:43 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2009 19:33:43 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:33:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xVC-CeCNUBtmc6hZc2mScrLEhjoybuQxA4a9F46jtjcfR0PMwvdW X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: D> These people are more apt to wring their hands over D= > characterization or D> Elven immunity than how (or if) Maedhros was fed o= n Thangorodrim D> according D> to the texts or how long he hung there (to u= se a recently discussed D> example). > P> Ha! I resemble that remark! W= ouldn't you know that I was thinking of you when I wrote it? ;) But you br= ing up an issue that I've been thinking about ever since I wrote that ridi= culously long essay on canon a few months ago. *Why* isn't the study of th= e biology (or psychology or anthropology, et cetera) of JRRT's world treat= ed more respectably as "canon"? There's often a move to use some ultimate = authorial intent in making decisions about canon. (The Great Ouija Board o= f Descrying Dead Authors' Intent, I call it. ;) Well, how much more intent= does one need? JRRT was clearly cognizant of the science of how the world= worked and was very concerned that his fictional world intended as a myt= hical version of our own should adhere to this reality unless he had good = reason for deviating. I mean, he even started overhauling the Sun-Moon-Tre= es story that is central to the early myths because readers wouldn't belie= ve that the Eldar thought the Earth was flat. Yet in deciding Maedhros's f= ate on Thangorodrim (to return to that tired example yet again), the perso= n who uses sketchy, posthumously published timelines to put Maedhros up th= ere for fifty years is more "canonical" than one who uses the basic realit= y that a human being could not survive that long hanging in a far-northern= climate with little or no food or water. JRRT--who was in the midst of o= verhauling a central myth in order to accomodate scientific reality- -clear= ly would not have *ever* considered diminishing the Thangorodrim hyperbole= so that readers didn't have to utterly suspend disbelief (pun intended) w= ith regards to this particular story. My point in all this is that I some= times feel like, in the pursuit of accuracy to *details,* it's easy to los= e sight of the larger ideas that were governing JRRT's creation of his wor= ld, ideas that do not make "canon" anything near a neatly assembled collec= tion of facts about what was and was not. That's a bit of a tangent from = the issue of characterization and the question of "OOC" but sums up my tho= ughts on this conversation over my lunch break. ;) > With regard to motiv= ations, I have always questioned and challenged > ideas, part of my inheren= t skepticism which has served me well in my > profession (in fact, that is= expected of me). When I first read > Tolkien's works, I was wide-eyed and= accepting of them. Now, I read > them with a critical eye. I could wri= te a spate of critical essays, > but those aren't nearly as much fun as wr= iting fan fiction. > Additionally, I like to challenge the reader, that is,= present > multiple ways of viewing JRRT's legendarium. It's also a chall= enge to > see if I can create original characters who will engage the read= er. My motivations are very, very similar. Especially with regards to c= hallenging the original texts. I'll admit that I'm often miffed with, say,= how JRRT depicts female characters. I could (and have) written snarky pos= ts and essays about this, but even better than that is writing a story tha= t shows a well-rounded female character in a culture that is inclined to d= ismiss or diminish her contributions. I tried to do that with "The Work of= Small Hands" and am trying to do that with my WiP "Awakening." Or I'm dis= mayed by JRRT's moral dualism, so I often write about the Feanorians with = the intent of showing how people can come to doing bad deeds without beco= ming Bad People (tm). That, for me, is the intrigue of fanfic and that the= se sources are so ripe for it is why I write about them and not something = else. I should conclude with the reminder that all of this is 100% the op= inion of one wonky not-necessarily-as-well-read-as-she-would-like fan who = has often been (sometimes rightfully) accused of arguing that something wa= s white because good authority had that it was black. ;) Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2451 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53263 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2009 23:57:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2009 23:57:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.237) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2009 23:57:04 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2009 23:57:04 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2009 23:57:03 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:57:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5-6384284642-6598099240=:8" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=ic7YlU4jxmMztV4VjvaB97V5PlP_tgzXdTcsZEZLmv0hHckr2W1eORVL X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --5-6384284642-6598099240=:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > But you bring up an issue that I've been thinking about ever since I >= wrote that ridiculously long essay on canon a few months ago. *Why* > isn'= t the study of the biology (or psychology or anthropology, et > cetera) of = JRRT's world treated more respectably as "canon"? Because it's not "magica= l" or supernatural? I'll grit my teeth and avoid going off on a rabid tan= gent about scientific illiteracy in American society. The adherence to "wh= at canon says" about the old Maedhros-dangling-from-the-mountain chestnut a= ctually (IMNSHO) does a disservcie to Tolkien's scientific acumen and his d= esire to make his "green sun" a believable one. (see below) There's > ofte= n a move to use some ultimate authorial intent in making > decisions about = canon. (The Great Ouija Board of Descrying Dead > Authors' Intent, I call i= t. ;) Well, how much more intent does one > need? JRRT was clearly cognizan= t of the science of how the world > worked and was very concerned that his = fictional world intended as a > mythical version of our own should adhere t= o this reality unless he > had good reason for deviating. I mean, he even s= tarted overhauling > the Sun-Moon-Trees story that is central to the early = myths because > readers wouldn't believe that the Eldar thought the Earth w= as flat. Among the key elements that make Tolkien's secondary world so enr= iched and believable, enabling the reader enter "elvish drama" as JRRT put = it, are his love and knowledge of science. He noted that when he was a boy= , he was more likely to be found reading books about natural history than f= iction. His keen interests in astronomy, botany, and even paleotology shin= e in his legendarium. His essays on the Sun and the Moon in Myths Transf= ormed are wonderful and again, reflect the mind of a writer who had a very = good understanding of the natural world. So yes, I have to ask, too, why = a means of addressing a myth with a bit more reality yet still striving to = maintain the "magic" ( Tolkien did this so brilliantly himself -- Naomi Mi= tchison was on to something when she called The Lord of the Rings "super sc= ience fiction") is somehow "less respectful" than trying to shoot an arrow = at an amorphous moving target. [As an aside, a few have miscontrued my cri= ticism of Tolkien to mean that I believe he was "anti-science." This is n= ot at all the case, but he was, ummm, selective in his viewpoint, and I con= tinue to hold significant reservations as to how he treated his more skille= d technology types and the message that sends.] > l > > My point in all th= is is that I sometimes feel like, in the pursuit > of accuracy to *details,= * it's easy to lose sight of the larger > ideas that were governing JRRT's = creation of his world, ideas that > do not make "canon" anything near a nea= tly assembled collection of > facts about what was and was not. This was w= hy I was astounded by the collection of his ideas in the HoMe, as well as h= is letters. The larger ideas are there for the creative picking by the int= repid fan fic writer. > > That's a bit of a tangent from the issue of chara= cterization and the > question of "OOC" "OOC" and The Silmarillion in the = same breath make my head spin, given the lofty view and the high tone of th= at volume. Sketches of characters are most often provided, in contrast to = Frodo and Sam as CGL aptly put it. Furthermore, the information scatter= ed throughout the legendarium indicated these sketches of characters also h= ave complexity and contradiction. My motivations are not "oh, I wanted to = see this happen." Instead, I have an Agenda=99. ;) > > > > I should conclu= de with the reminder that all of this is 100% the > opinion of one wonky no= t-necessarily-as-well-read-as-she-would-like > fan who has often been (some= times rightfully) accused of arguing > that something was white because goo= d authority had that it was > black. ;) It's about all opinions. :) Pand= =EB --5-6384284642-6598099240=:8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> But you bring up an issue that I've been thinking about e= ver since I
> wrote that ridiculously long essay on canon a few mont= hs ago. *Why*
> isn't the study of the biology (or psychology or ant= hropology, et
> cetera) of JRRT's world treated more respectably as = "canon"?

Because it's not "magical" or supernatural?   I'l= l grit my teeth and avoid going off on a rabid tangent about scientific ill= iteracy in American society.   

The adherence to "wh= at canon says" about the old Maedhros-dangling-from-the-mountain chestnut a= ctually (IMNSHO) does a disservcie to Tolkien's scientific acumen and his d= esire to make his "green sun" a believable one. (see below)

There's =
> often a move to use some ultimate authorial intent in making
&= gt; decisions about canon. (The Great Ouija Board of Descrying Dead
>= ; Authors' Intent, I call it. ;) Well, how much more intent does one
&g= t; need? JRRT was clearly cognizant of the science of how the world
>= ; worked and was very concerned that his fictional world intended as a
= > mythical version of our own should adhere to this reality unless he > had good reason for deviating. I mean, he even started overhauling <= br>> the Sun-Moon-Trees story that is central to the early myths because=
> readers wouldn't believe that the Eldar thought the Earth was fla= t.

Among the key elements that make Tolkien's secondary world so enr= iched and believable, enabling the reader enter "elvish drama" as JRRT put = it, are his love and knowledge of science.  He noted that when he was = a boy, he was more likely to be found reading books about natural history t= han fiction.  His keen interests in astronomy, botany, and even paleot= ology shine in his legendarium.    His essays on the Sun and= the Moon in Myths Transformed are wonderful and again, reflect the mind of= a writer who had a very good understanding of the natural world. &nbs= p; So yes, I have to ask, too, why a means of addressing a myth with a bit = more reality yet still striving to maintain the "magic"  ( Tolkien did= this so brilliantly himself -- Naomi Mitchison was on to something when sh= e called The Lord of the Rings "super science fiction") is somehow "= less respectful" than trying to shoot an arrow at an amorphous moving targe= t.

[As an aside, a few have miscontrued my criticism of Tolkien to m= ean that I believe he was  "anti-science."  This is not at all th= e case, but he was, ummm, selective in his viewpoint, and I continue to hol= d significant reservations as to how he treated his more skilled technology= types and the message that sends.]

> l
>
> My poin= t in all this is that I sometimes feel like, in the pursuit
> of acc= uracy to *details,* it's easy to lose sight of the larger
> ideas th= at were governing JRRT's creation of his world, ideas that
> do not = make "canon" anything near a neatly assembled collection of
> facts = about what was and was not.

This was why I was astounded by the coll= ection of his ideas in the HoMe, as well as his letters.  The larger i= deas are there for the creative picking by the intrepid fan fic writer.
= >
> That's a bit of a tangent from the issue of characterization = and the
> question of "OOC"

"OOC" and The Silmarillion in the same breath make my head spin, given the lofty view and the high t= one of that volume.  Sketches of characters are most often provided, i= n contrast to Frodo and Sam as CGL aptly put it.    Furtherm= ore,  the information scattered throughout the legendarium indi= cated these sketches of characters also have complexity and contradiction.&= nbsp; 

My motivations are not "oh, I wanted to see this= happen."  Instead, I have an Agenda=99. ;)
>
>
> =
> I should conclude with the reminder that all of this is 100% the <= br>> opinion of one wonky not-necessarily-as-well-read-as-she-would-like=
> fan who has often been (sometimes rightfully) accused of arguing =
> that something was white because good authority had that it was > black. ;)

It's about all opinions. :) 

Pand=EB --5-6384284642-6598099240=:8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2452 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94773 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2009 09:33:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2009 09:33:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.237) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2009 09:33:58 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2009 09:33:58 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2009 09:33:58 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:33:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=h-RUiRByFL0v_6QieWLQw04JJo_zCfP-CjD8YLD93Z-W2U1eDuDsoPhdFA X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked I totally agree with you and CGI. My comment was meant more to be a genera= l observation about adaptation in general (I just wanted to get that off m= y chest, sorry). You guys are right in that Silmarillion is one of those f= andom where you are free to *give* characters their well... character. Of = course to do so you must take into account what events have transpired in = their life and work out how they would react to that. Which is no easy fea= t. I think that when OOC gets brandished around in Silmdom what people ar= e actually getting at is that the characters are OOC from *established mod= es of seeing them*. I.e. most fans think of Maglor as a basically nice guy= who did some pretty awful stuff under the influences of an oath that shou= ld not have been made. So if a fandom author makes Maglor out to be a... G= reogory House from House: talented but a bastered who enjoys playing games= with peoples, who is to say that he is OOC. Truth is that you couldn't. B= ut it is different from the predominent view taken by fandom. However, tha= t doesn't make it OOC. You when I started canonnofanon.net a lot of peopl= e accused me of wanting to *dictate* to the fandom what to think. But the = truth is that I wanted to *free* fanfiction writers from the *dominent vie= w*. I mean, it was something I observed myself. If you read enough fics t= hat support a certain viewpoint regarding a character and you find your ow= n view of that character being coloured by it and find that you too are wa= lking the same beaten path. But Tolkien never said what Maglor was. You ca= n make him humble and nice or you can make him an arrogant git and neither= Maglor would be OOC. That's why I love writing Silmarillion fanfiction so= much. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Tinni wrote: > > So how come they > > aren't any better than the= average fanfiction writer at it and are > > actually worse than some of th= e better fanfiction writers? The answer > > is quite simple. Because it is= very hard to get into the head of > > characters. Don't get me wrong, plot= is hard to do but if you don't > > get the tone of the characters right, = whatever you produce feels > > alien. > > How would you see *The Silmarill= ion* and fan-written adaptations of *The > Silmarillion* fitting into this= ? The reason I bring this up is because we > have very little--or, sometim= es, nothing at all--to go with in terms of > characterization in *The Silm= arillion.* For example, the name > *Maedhros*appears just 88 times in the S= ilm. He's one of the most > prevalent in the > original source--and also on= e of the most written-about (there are 83 > stories listing him as a chara= cter on the SWG archive, or slightly less than > 22% of stories there). > = > Hence, I increasingly feel like the pejorative "OOC!" term, with respec= t to > Silm-based fiction, is right up there with "slash" and "canon" and = "AU" on > my list of terms that are overused and misused so much in this f= andom that I > question whether they have any meaning anymore. For example,= when I > put *Another > Man's Cage* up on ff.net, I was told by one reader= that my Feanor was "OOC." > He was "OOC," apparently, because, in the Yea= rs of Bliss in Aman, he hugged > his children and was usually a pleasant p= erson to be around and kept his > wilding to a minimum. Can we infer that = based on what is said in the texts? > I don't think so. > > But if we can= 't infer that about Feanor (who is mentioned 194 times in the > text, with= out counting "sons of Feanor," for anyone who is wondering ;), > then how = can we make that inference about *anyone *beyond the most basic of > defin= ing traits that JRRT invested his characters with? (I.e., Feanor > =3D pro= ud, talented, snarky) > > My point in all of this (and not necessarily aim= ed at you, Tinni, because I > don't know that this is even in answer to an= y point that you were making > about the Silm fandom; however, I think mos= t of us can attest that it's one > commonly made) is that the idea that th= e success of a fanfic hinges on > believability within the original author= 's invented world. Characterization > is often pointed out as one of--if n= ot the--most important aspects of > creating such believability. But, when= the characterization to start is > skeletal, this idea gets stickier. Wha= t, then, keeps our work matched to the > original? > > Or, put more direc= tly, are the "characterizations" that are often used as > the basis for de= ciding "OOC"/"not OOC" really anything that JRRT/CT wrote, > or are they f= anon, the result of writing in a community that is also a very > social on= e? Or just personal preference/interpretation that comes from > counting M= iddle-earth as almost a second home, as MithLuin suggested? > > Because w= riting Feanor as "proud, talented, snarky" is not hard; he's not > even a = character so much as an archetype; he's all throughout literature > under = various names (which I'm sure would make him happy ;). He doesn't > begin = as particularly nuanced, although I think that fan interpretations of > hi= m certainly make him so. > > Does "OOC" have much meaning when talking abo= ut Silmfic? > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2453 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63085 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2009 14:35:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2009 14:35:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f157.google.com) (209.85.217.157) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2009 14:35:01 -0000 X-Received: by gxk1 with SMTP id 1so140833gxk.7 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:35:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.151.150.20 with SMTP id c20mr1053426ybo.45.1234449300929; Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:35:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:35:00 -0600 Message-ID: <511ea890902120635i334c2aa6i7175121a3e29b10e@mail.gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do we write fanfiction? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=10-YtWlf1hsmvkjW_7kxR3dZxAr_AxiuM0H7mChkgkxmnI3b_04 X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > But you bring up an issue that I've been thinking about ever since I > wrote that ridiculously long essay on canon a few months ago. *Why* > isn't the study of the biology (or psychology or anthropology, et > cetera) of JRRT's world treated more respectably as "canon"? Probably because those who are that connected to the canon are probably going to write critical works and essays, and not fanfiction? I'm mostly guessing on that, but having had the opportunity to talk one-on-one a couple times with some fantastic Tolkien scholars (I am very lucky to live 15 minutes from the Tolkien archives, so I've had more opportunities than most on that end), and often the take seems to be that the closer to canon you get, the further from the possibility of writing fanfiction do you stray. Now, that's not to say those who are that immersed in canon don't ponder out stories -- it's quite the opposite in terms of the way their imaginations seem to stretch. Probably because they know the canon so well. But I am starting to find that the more I read over things and make connections, the more I understand things, the more I see connections between other sources and Tolkien's works. That ends up leading to more time spent in scholarly pursuits and less time spent on fanfiction. But... I can't entirely give up fanfiction. Scholarly essays are like a day at the museum; fanfiction is a day at the amusement park. Although both nice, fun ways of spending a day, you can't run all over the museum like you can in the amusement park. [It was recalling Dinah Hazell's book 'The Plants of Middle-earth: Botany and Sub-creation' that got me thinking along these lines, that although there aren't many fan fics that go into great depth about the flora of Arda, her book certainly does, and so canon science is alive and well in the scholarly world.] -Zhie -- Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2454 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16461 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2009 13:15:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2009 13:15:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.236) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 13:15:00 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2009 13:15:00 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2009 13:15:00 -0000 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:14:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=GNeODSnfjZi26goWvPQ_SOCYCFCb21X2hKC-Q7mlpiw-HuSU9DyIvVKNDw X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked While I am pretty sure one of these days I am going to get banned from thi= s group for randomly turning up and posing even random questions up for di= scussion.... but I was wonder what people thought of the popularity of the= sons of Feanor. I mean, as characters go, I am fairly certain Tolkien did= n't intend for them to be as popular as they are. They are murdered innoce= nts three times! THREE TIMES! Each of them have at least Pride from the de= adly sins as a character flaw. Some of the them have more than one (Celegr= om - envy at least regarding Luthien, Caranthir - wrath etc) and one can a= rgue they also posses some measure of greed. Although that depends on what= your stance is regarding property law and whose property the silmarillion= were. Given that the light inside it came from the two trees of the Vala= r and the gems were "blessed"/"hallowed" by the valar. Seriously, if there= was a court case over the silmarillion a lot of lawyers would have a fiel= d day and get very rich in the process! Anyway, given that the sons of Fea= nor were not meant to be as heroic as the sons of Fingolfin and the childr= en of Finarfin, why is that they are as popular as they are? I would like = peoples thoughts before I start giving mine... ok fine, I admit it! I have= no clue why I like them so much! Happy! :) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2455 Return-Path: X-Sender: jen@yellowspoon.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79497 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2009 13:59:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2009 13:59:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 13:59:47 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2009 13:59:47 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2009 13:59:47 -0000 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:59:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "mirien_isilion" Subject: Re: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=144927978; y=voIoB-UXpjCMVBKkIYrSDn_0XE_YNUAygn-wfZcf8lkJyiDqv5ojxNc X-Yahoo-Profile: mirien_isilion My short answer would be - because I'm not feeling very coherent!- that it'= s to do with charisma, passion and the fact that they are larger than life,= much like their father. Wrong or right, they stand up for what they believ= e in and go after it and people tend to admire that. They also buck against= what can sometimes be perceived as the stifling hold of the Valar. In add= ition, I would say that certainly in the case of Maedhros and Maglor, there= is the appeal of that conflict between the evil the oath makes them do and= the fact that they are both clearly 'decent' Elves, who demonstrate that i= n many ways. Maedhros giving up the High Kingship and being troubled by wha= t happens to the sons of Dior and Maglor's care of Elrond and Elros are cle= ar examples of that and yet they swore the oath too and are tainted by it a= nd so have that timeless appeal of tragic, conflicted characters who are be= autiful, of the light, and yet touched by darkness and ultimately doomed. = I'm sure others will say it far better, but that was what sprung immediatel= y to mind when I considered your question. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild= @yahoogroups.com, "Tinni" wrote: > > While I am pret= ty sure one of these days I am going to get banned > from this group for r= andomly turning up and posing even random > questions up for discussion...= . but I was wonder what people thought > of the popularity of the sons of = Feanor. I mean, as characters go, I > am fairly certain Tolkien didn't int= end for them to be as popular as > they are. They are murdered innocents t= hree times! THREE TIMES! Each > of them have at least Pride from the deadl= y sins as a character flaw. > Some of the them have more than one (Celegro= m - envy at least > regarding Luthien, Caranthir - wrath etc) and one can = argue they also > posses some measure of greed. Although that depends on w= hat your > stance is regarding property law and whose property the silmari= llion > were. Given that the light inside it came from the two trees of th= e > Valar and the gems were "blessed"/"hallowed" by the valar. Seriously, = > if there was a court case over the silmarillion a lot of lawyers > woul= d have a field day and get very rich in the process! > > Anyway, given tha= t the sons of Feanor were not meant to be as heroic > as the sons of Fingo= lfin and the children of Finarfin, why is that > they are as popular as th= ey are? I would like peoples thoughts before > I start giving mine... ok f= ine, I admit it! I have no clue why I like > them so much! Happy! :) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2456 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90214 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2009 17:36:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2009 17:36:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.156) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 17:36:49 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 3so592322yxi.72 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:36:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.12.12 with SMTP id v12mr4685037ibv.4.1235324208632; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:36:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:36:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574d8ea352b90463855440 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Q5-Znd2rJcChR3LKnTC9mk0F6TFqmikLeSgMpfiOpyfVVrFezD_H X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325574d8ea352b90463855440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Tinni wrote: > While I am pretty sure one of these days I am going to get banned > from this group for randomly turning up and posing even random > questions up for discussion.... Tinni! Never! I really appreciate that you stir up discussion on this list and pose questions to people. Please, keep it up. :) *mod hat off* As for why *I* like the Feanorians ... It has to do with the complexity of character that Mirien also mentioned: These are people who must have been Good-with-a-capital-G at one point, in Aman, and yet fell so far. Why is this? What happened? We see it all the time in the real world as well, so I find it a fascinating question and one that I can explore by writing about the early lives of the Feanorians, building them as people before they were kinslayers, and then looking at how they came to do what they did. Also, as Mirien said, I like that they challenged those in power (the Valar) and stood up for what they believed was right. I see a lot of myself in that, and where some people label the Feanorians as "proud," I find myself viewing them as having a viewpoint that counters the majority and failing to cave to authority/social pressure. For example, when Feanor withholds his Silmarils, a lot of people will say that that was because he was too proud to relinquish the work of his own hands, that which had brought him his glory. I tend to view his choice as one originating with his certainty that it was immoral to give the last of the light of the Trees to the Valar who had already squandered it, whose mishandling of affairs across the ages had done great damage to the Elves and to him personally. (And, I increasingly believe, may not have had the "right" to that light that they claim they did.) Do I think they went to far? I'm a pacifist, so my answer must be yes. :) But, again, the question for me is how that came to pass, and that's why they fascinate me so much. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325574d8ea352b90463855440 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Tinni <sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com> w= rote:
> While I am pretty sure one of these days I am going to get ba= nned
> from this group for randomly turning up and posing even rand= om
> questions up for discussion....

Tinni! Never! I really a= ppreciate that you stir up discussion on this list and pose questions to pe= ople. Please, keep it up. :)

*mod hat off*

As for why I like the Feanorians ...

It has to do with the complexity of chara= cter that Mirien also mentioned: These are people who must have been Good-w= ith-a-capital-G at one point, in Aman, and yet fell so far. Why is this? Wh= at happened? We see it all the time in the real world as well, so I find it= a fascinating question and one that I can explore by writing about the ear= ly lives of the Feanorians, building them as people before they were kinsla= yers, and then looking at how they came to do what they did.

Also, = as Mirien said, I like that they challenged those in power (the Valar) and = stood up for what they believed was right. I see a lot of myself in that, a= nd where some people label the Feanorians as "proud," I find myse= lf viewing them as having a viewpoint that counters the majority and failin= g to cave to authority/social pressure. For example, when Feanor withholds = his Silmarils, a lot of people will say that that was because he was too pr= oud to relinquish the work of his own hands, that which had brought him his= glory. I tend to view his choice as one originating with his certainty tha= t it was immoral to give the last of the light of the Trees to the Valar wh= o had already squandered it, whose mishandling of affairs across the ages h= ad done great damage to the Elves and to him personally. (And, I increasing= ly believe, may not have had the "right" to that light that they = claim they did.) Do I think they went to far? I'm a pacifist, so my ans= wer must be yes. :) But, again, the question for me is how that came to pas= s, and that's why they fascinate me so much.

Dawn


--=
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org
--000325574d8ea352b90463855440-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2457 Return-Path: X-Sender: deand12000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71857 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2009 17:40:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2009 17:40:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56008.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (216.252.110.187) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 17:40:32 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 12305 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2009 17:40:32 -0000 Message-ID: <42851.6479.qm@web56008.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: jQBDRCEVM1maI81rPQyUL3Y.oEpGp0QKYpGw.2nt2X0C.f6.YOym3YIC8MDNyZkcSNCGZqebCwsr4GQEJBZdvs1nMWxkZNrUZAHekOUPue4_XtnvUE0Dhy7ok.Z8Xo.f42zvyG4kcXV1WXMrxGBRBJmKXze1rtgzbXOwybEG78lvfBpCefY2638GS4u27JObJEmmn6yeAh_e2.l7GnQVvRizRS2R_lH7HcmznGZHy3Q- X-Received: from [98.73.30.43] by web56008.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:40:31 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:40:31 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-495086106-1235324431=:6479" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dean Rowley Reply-To: deand12000@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=114134930; y=Nlj2zbHie-coQDbZK7bsD-d_UGPAXqol500-1eY0DFdFF6opvA X-Yahoo-Profile: deand12000 --0-495086106-1235324431=:6479 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=9CNothing has been bought more dearly than that little bit of human = reason and of a feeling of freedom that now constitutes our pride. But it i= s this very pride that now makes it almost impossible for us to feel with t= hose vast spans of time characterized by the =E2=80=98morality of mores=E2= =80=99 which antedate =E2=80=98world history=E2=80=99 as the real and decis= ive main history that determined the character of humanity =E2=80=93 when s= uffering was a virtue, cruelty a virtue, dissimulation a virtue, revenge a = virtue, the slander of reason a virtue, while well-being was a danger, the = craving for knowledge a danger, peace a danger, pity a danger, being pitied= ignominy, work ignominy, madness divine, change immoral and pregnant with = disaster.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0 Friedrich Nietzsche =C2=A0 Wheighter we fight it = or revel in it there is that hidden part of everyone brought up in the Euro= pean tradition that knows about that form of heroism that is pride unlimite= d, arrogance personified, and excess as not enough. If gods deny us we figh= t the gods, if time passes we grab time and hold it still, if we are defeat= ed we die with out swords in our hands. =C2=A0 If this does not describe th= e sons of Feanor to you, try reading them again. =C2=A0 In short, we love t= hem because they are the personification of the reched excess that is the g= lory of life. =C2=A0 Dean Maia of Este --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Tinni wrote: From: Tinni Subje= ct: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as p= opular as they are? To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sund= ay, February 22, 2009, 8:14 AM While I am pretty sure one of these da= ys I am going to get banned from this group for randomly turning up and po= sing even random questions up for discussion.. .. but I was wonder what pe= ople thought of the popularity of the sons of Feanor. I mean, as character= s go, I am fairly certain Tolkien didn't intend for them to be as popular = as they are. They are murdered innocents three times! THREE TIMES! Each o= f them have at least Pride from the deadly sins as a character flaw. Some = of the them have more than one (Celegrom - envy at least regarding Luthien= , Caranthir - wrath etc) and one can argue they also posses some measure o= f greed. Although that depends on what your stance is regarding property l= aw and whose property the silmarillion were. Given that the light inside i= t came from the two trees of the Valar and the gems were "blessed"/"hallow= ed " by the valar. Seriously, if there was a court case over the silmarill= ion a lot of lawyers would have a field day and get very rich in the proce= ss! Anyway, given that the sons of Feanor were not meant to be as heroic = as the sons of Fingolfin and the children of Finarfin, why is that they ar= e as popular as they are? I would like peoples thoughts before I start giv= ing mine... ok fine, I admit it! I have no clue why I like them so much! H= appy! :) --0-495086106-1235324431=:6479 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=E2=80=9CNothing has been bought more d= early than that little bit of human reason and of a feeling of freedom that= now constitutes our pride. But it is this very pride that now makes it alm= ost impossible for us to feel with those vast spans of time characterized b= y the =E2=80=98morality of mores=E2=80=99 which antedate =E2=80=98world his= tory=E2=80=99 as the real and decisive main history that determined= the character of humanity =E2=80=93 when suffering was a virtue, c= ruelty a virtue, dissimulation a virtue, revenge a virtue, the slander of r= eason a virtue, while well-being was a danger, the craving for knowledge a = danger, peace a danger, pity a danger, being pitied ignominy, work ignominy= , madness divine, change immoral and pregnant with disaster.=E2=80=9D

 

Friedrich Nietzsch= e

 

Wheighter we fight it or rev= el in it there is that hidden part of everyone brought up in the European t= radition that knows about that form of heroism that is pride unlimited, arr= ogance personified, and excess as not enough. If gods deny us we fight the = gods, if time passes we grab time and hold it still, if we are defeated we = die with out swords in our hands.

  If this does not describe the sons of Feanor to you, try reading them a= gain.

 

In short, we love them = because they are the personification of the reched excess that is the glory= of life.

 

Dean Maia of Este

--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Tinni wrote:

From: Tinni
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Why do you t= hink the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?
To: SilmarillionWrit= ersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 8:14 AM
While I am pretty sure = one of these days I am going to get banned
from this group for randomly= turning up and posing even random
questions up for discussion.. .. but= I was wonder what people thought
of the popularity of the sons of Fean= or. I mean, as characters go, I
am fairly certain Tolkien didn't intend= for them to be as popular as
they are. They are murdered innocents thr= ee times! THREE TIMES! Each
of them have at least Pride from the deadly= sins as a character flaw.
Some of the them have more than one (Celegro= m - envy at least
regarding Luthien, Caranthir - wrath etc) and one can= argue they also
posses some measure of greed. Although that depends on= what your
stance is regarding property law and whose property the silm= arillion
were. Given that the light inside it came from the two trees o= f the
Valar and the gems were "blessed"/"hallowed " by the valar. Serio= usly,
if there was a court case over the silmarillion a lot of lawyers=
would have a field day and get very rich in the process!

Anyway= , given that the sons of Feanor were not meant to be as heroic
as the s= ons of Fingolfin and the children of Finarfin, why is that
they are as = popular as they are? I would like peoples thoughts before
I start givin= g mine... ok fine, I admit it! I have no clue why I like
them so much! = Happy! :)


= --0-495086106-1235324431=:6479-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2458 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24651 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2009 19:54:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2009 19:54:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.29) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 19:54:12 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so595131ywj.35 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:54:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.150.97.19 with SMTP id u19mr1463513ybb.224.1235332449983; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:54:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 14:54:09 -0500 Message-ID: <511ea890902221154w1c92cf2doea984c5c405ba3a3@mail.gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=jUCsxL7_YcwVnT0A7bVu0MAuPGz2r_u7fQ5-35_67Tn_S8iOpEc X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex Perhaps because they are the most 'human' of the three groups of Finwe's grandchildren, so we can relate to them the best? >From the Fingolfin clan, you've got Fingon (risks life to go save Maedhros, killed in 2-on-1 hand-to-hand combat balrog battle) Turgon (between Gondolin and thinking he'd stay in his tower and take on a dragon...?! most humans are gonna RUN from the dragon if they didn't run from the balrogs!) Aredhel (throws herself in the path of the dagger meant to kill her son -- not sure I can see Curufin sacrificing himself for Celebrimbor --- however, Aredhel, probably the most connected to the Feanorians of the non-Feanorian grandkids) and Argon died too early to know what he might have done >From the Finarfin clan, you've got, well, that whole lot, Finrod and his intelligence and noble ways, and Galadriel and her whole things later (sorry, I've got strep on top of a cold, I really should have waited to answer this til later when my head was clearer, oh well) and the others ain't so bad, either. So, perhaps because the Feanorian clan seems so, hmm, more real less fantastic in their ways, there is a connection? But then, I actually like Fingolfin's kids best of the three groups. I write about them more, and the fanfilm I'm working on with some friends is concentrated on Turgon, Aredhel, and her adventures. So, yay Fingolfin clan, boo Feanorian clan, and this would make an interesting poll to see which of the three groups is preferred by those in this group. -Zhie ps - Silmarils were a derivative work, right, like fanfiction being derivative from the original? Umm... in that case.. my vote is to let Feanor keep his shiny things provided he's not making any profit from them? ;) On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Tinni wrote: > While I am pretty sure one of these days I am going to get banned > from this group for randomly turning up and posing even random > questions up for discussion.... but I was wonder what people thought > of the popularity of the sons of Feanor. I mean, as characters go, I > am fairly certain Tolkien didn't intend for them to be as popular as > they are. They are murdered innocents three times! THREE TIMES! Each > of them have at least Pride from the deadly sins as a character flaw. > Some of the them have more than one (Celegrom - envy at least > regarding Luthien, Caranthir - wrath etc) and one can argue they also > posses some measure of greed. Although that depends on what your > stance is regarding property law and whose property the silmarillion > were. Given that the light inside it came from the two trees of the > Valar and the gems were "blessed"/"hallowed" by the valar. Seriously, > if there was a court case over the silmarillion a lot of lawyers > would have a field day and get very rich in the process! > > Anyway, given that the sons of Feanor were not meant to be as heroic > as the sons of Fingolfin and the children of Finarfin, why is that > they are as popular as they are? I would like peoples thoughts before > I start giving mine... ok fine, I admit it! I have no clue why I like > them so much! Happy! :) > > -- Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2459 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 58524 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2009 20:07:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2009 20:07:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.134.237) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 20:07:46 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1235333266; bh=IEOvwpdDDBv0f5ccm2cjmIJzYj59rnUU4PIn16bOQr4=; h=Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-ID:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-eGroups-Auth:X-eGroups-Application:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:From:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ApebrO9UzX9arJMXoQH22n29ponT588z7J2V35gav1GpTtwsx/wTV+yVw+fOTqL+OpBcve8iq/bQ9sJEyzhibPGzM3tZlEANyMAPCMCGB/DkexsB6zxp1q0cVRY9ylyh Received: from [67.195.134.48] by n9.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2009 20:07:46 -0000 Received: from [69.147.65.173] by t1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2009 20:07:46 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2009 20:07:46 -0000 Date: 22 Feb 2009 20:07:45 -0000 Message-ID: <1235333265.289.9782.w5@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the SilmarillionWritersGuild group: Which of the three Noldorin houses do you most prefer to write or read about? o House of Feanor o House of Fingolfin o House of Finarfin To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=2829686 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2460 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86775 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2009 20:10:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2009 20:10:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.240) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 20:10:04 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b6so632693ana.0 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:10:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.20.1 with SMTP id d1mr4855181ibb.17.1235333404245; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:10:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <511ea890902221154w1c92cf2doea984c5c405ba3a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <511ea890902221154w1c92cf2doea984c5c405ba3a3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:10:04 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574706bd4077046387780e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=UgySpEBXLOOTwdyTgSejlh9FvvaTlcuOOk4n3KyYt5PCGaoYZvBp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325574706bd4077046387780e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Zhie wrote: > this would make an > interesting poll to see which of the three groups is preferred by > those in this group. Okay, I created one: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=2829686 It will close in two weeks and then we'll have the "truth" about which of the Noldorin houses is most preferred. ;) > the fanfilm I'm working on with some > friends is concentrated on Turgon, Aredhel, and her adventures. This sounds really cool! Will it be up online when you're finished with it? Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325574706bd4077046387780e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Zhie <zhiester@gmail.com> wrote:
> thi= s would make an
> interesting poll to see which of the three groups i= s preferred by
> those in this group.

Okay, I created one:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/su= rveys?id=3D2829686

It will close in two weeks and then we'l= l have the "truth" about which of the Noldorin houses is most pre= ferred. ;)

> the fanfilm I'm working on with some
> fri= ends is concentrated on Turgon, Aredhel, and her adventures.

This s= ounds really cool! Will it be up online when you're finished with it?
Dawn


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/h= eretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--000325574706bd4077046387780e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2461 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38773 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2009 21:29:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2009 21:29:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 21:29:58 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c79.501e0133 (32913) for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:29:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:29:49 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235338189" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Fzv4ZT6pQGoy1YJDOftS4IiMZIbVUnO5I5kVCcpkoYOxTuszVB9A X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1235338189 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "yahoo groups" hate me! They won't let me sign in. **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000002) -------------------------------1235338189 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
"yahoo groups" ha= te me! They won't let me sign in.

You= can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals.
-------------------------------1235338189-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2462 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80874 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2009 21:38:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2009 21:38:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 21:38:24 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c41.5304d664 (32913) for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:37:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:38:19 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235338699" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=iq43Bk8Pha45IB12Y6H3JIp4QhS0KS7Bxkudv7Iq1kXsxrA-R8Pn X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1235338699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whoops! Sorry finally got it. Like many of the House of Feanor, patience is not my virture. "yahoo groups" hate me! They won't let me sign in. I did the poll, but for me that was a trick question. What I prefer to read depends on the author, because the House of Feanor is so often handled poorly. Also, what one reads and what one writes are not often the same thing. **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000002) -------------------------------1235338699 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Whoops! Sorry fin= ally got it. Like many of the House of Feanor, patience is not my virture.=
"yahoo groups" hate me! They won't let= me sign in.
I did the poll, but for me that was = a trick question. What I prefer to read depends on the author, because the= House of Feanor is so often handled poorly. Also, what one reads and what= one writes are not often the same thing.
 
You can't always choose whom you love, but= you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personal= s.
-------------------------------1235338699-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2463 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13876 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2009 23:51:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2009 23:51:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f176.google.com) (209.85.217.176) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2009 23:51:09 -0000 X-Received: by gxk24 with SMTP id 24so6072936gxk.19 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:51:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.150.219.18 with SMTP id r18mr4706865ybg.196.1235346668990; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:51:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <511ea890902221154w1c92cf2doea984c5c405ba3a3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:51:08 -0500 Message-ID: <511ea890902221551m5bbcc02i7326d7a4437e015c@mail.gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=4vv09pr8FST5Ms6Qlp7P1-8_zQMWkBw-Dp4L4klsZdkEfZ4k5nk X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex > This sounds really cool! Will it be up online when you're finished with it? > > Dawn That is the plan -- what good is a fan film if you can't share it with other fans? -Zhie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2464 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71254 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 00:51:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 00:51:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 00:51:22 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 00:51:22 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 00:51:22 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:51:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42851.6479.qm@web56008.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=qfJRC_utl5VpcTaoh2hx5MXbGoEHUoa-upqPoae60_x_QlvQJrNFq80UUA X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Wow! A quote from Friedrich Nietzsche! That's more than I was bargaining f= or. It has been interesting so far and what I find most fascinating is th= at people commented on how 'real' the sons of Feanor are. This I think is = a good reason for why they are generally more popular than the house of Fi= ngolfin and Finarfin. I mean, the saintliest guy in all of Silmarillion is= by far Finrod and I am sure a lot of people admire Finrod for what he is.= I know I do. But even as he is someone whose good qualities I would like = to possess, he is also someone not as relatable as the sons of Feanor, who= had a lot more flaws and as many have said, more human. What also intere= sts me is the comment regarding the "hold of the valar". Certainly Feanor = and many of the Noldor who followed them did began to think of Aman as a s= ort of prison. But wasn't that because of the deception of the Morgoth? I = mean, it is an interesting thought. The Valar maintained that the Eldar ha= d come freely and they could leave freely. Of course, the Noldor couldn't = do so because they had no ships of their own and well we all know what hap= pened when they crossed the Helcarax=EB. Than again... I seem to recall, a= nd I am too lazy to go confirm it at the moment, that the Helcarax=EB froz= e over as Morgoth fled over it after stealing the Silmaril. Which may mea= n that it was a viable land bridge to Middle-Earth for the elves, should t= hey have choosen to depart Aman that way before the unchaining of Morgoth.= Now here is an interesting thought to ponder, did the elves ever feel opp= ressed in Aman before Morgoth came along and convinced them that they were= ? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2465 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77759 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 00:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 00:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 00:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.be5.4c76d2e4 (32913) for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:57:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:57:11 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235350631" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Y5XoTiD--Y1-9o5hfEuhg7MhEGw8DRP6PgbiC9s7GNg2Cyoop8FO X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1235350631 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if they thought they were oppressed before Morgoth's lies in Tolkien's view (can't stop to do the research), but I personally would have felt that way and the final straw would have come for me, when the Valar stepped in and ruled on the dispute between Feanor and Fingolfin--where did that leave the Noldor? Their king a figurehead only and their people living in a gilded cage. **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000002) -------------------------------1235350631 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I don't know if t= hey thought they were oppressed before Morgoth's lies in Tolkien's view (c= an't stop to do the research), but I personally would have felt that way a= nd the final straw would have come for me, when the Valar stepped in = and ruled on the dispute between Feanor and Fingolfin--where did that leave= the Noldor? Their king a figurehead only and their people living in a gil= ded cage.

You can't always choose whom= you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start wit= h AOL Personals.
-------------------------------1235350631-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2466 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77242 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 01:15:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 01:15:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.237) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 01:15:19 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 01:15:19 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 01:15:19 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:15:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=FH4uhN_ftzNpgqgbc56lBj_ViWHCZ82ReTCVXTfIRdDMA5-D4U6LHP2SfQ X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Thanks! I have been thinking really hard about characters people like and = also characters I like the most. Specially about characters with flaws (o= r down right evil characters) that somehow still worm their way into your = heart. What I concluded was that most of the time it came down to what the= y professed to be their reason and how much their action agreed/disagreed = with their reason. So you end up liking the Fox-faced sadist who never pre= tended to be anything but... well a fox-faced sadist but intensly dislike = the person who claims to be honest and on the side of justice and least bl= oodshed but sides with the megalomaniac. I mean, wasn't that the whole de= al with Sauron? He wanted everything to be ordered and so he sided with Mo= rgoth and later came to realise that for there to be order, everything and= everyone had to move according to his will? So I guess what I am getting= at, in a random round about way, is that I think one of the other reasons= the sons of Feanor are liked is that they never pretend to be anything bu= t what they are. Not saying Fingon, Turgon, Finrod and others were faking = things or anything. But I kind of get the impression, and this is my impre= ssion only, is that for a long time what they were and what they wanted to= be/projected to be were very different. Not so for the sons of Feanor or = so I feel. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagun= d wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Tinni wrote: > > While I am pretty sure one of these days I a= m going to get banned > > from this group for randomly turning up and posin= g even random > > questions up for discussion.... > > Tinni! Never! I real= ly appreciate that you stir up discussion on this list > and pose question= s to people. Please, keep it up. :) > > *mod hat off* > > As for why *I* = like the Feanorians ... > > It has to do with the complexity of character = that Mirien also mentioned: > These are people who must have been Good-wit= h-a-capital-G at one point, in > Aman, and yet fell so far. Why is this? W= hat happened? We see it all the > time in the real world as well, so I fin= d it a fascinating question and one > that I can explore by writing about = the early lives of the Feanorians, > building them as people before they w= ere kinslayers, and then looking at how > they came to do what they did. >= > Also, as Mirien said, I like that they challenged those in power (the = Valar) > and stood up for what they believed was right. I see a lot of mys= elf in > that, and where some people label the Feanorians as "proud," I fin= d myself > viewing them as having a viewpoint that counters the majority a= nd failing to > cave to authority/social pressure. For example, when Feano= r withholds his > Silmarils, a lot of people will say that that was becaus= e he was too proud > to relinquish the work of his own hands, that which h= ad brought him his > glory. I tend to view his choice as one originating w= ith his certainty that > it was immoral to give the last of the light of t= he Trees to the Valar who > had already squandered it, whose mishandling o= f affairs across the ages had > done great damage to the Elves and to him = personally. (And, I increasingly > believe, may not have had the "right" t= o that light that they claim they > did.) Do I think they went to far? I'm= a pacifist, so my answer must be yes. > :) But, again, the question for m= e is how that came to pass, and that's why > they fascinate me so much. > = > Dawn > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heret= ic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2467 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64398 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 01:32:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 01:32:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.126) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 01:32:27 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 01:32:27 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 01:32:27 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:32:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=NbJokgN0uu8RlULsVRH4O62gDKc9Ztg7TCOdcOjppjx2KE2y3NerV3ay X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Tinni" wrote: > > Wow! A quote from Friedrich Nietzsche! That's more than I w= as > bargaining for. An indepth look at Milton's Paradise Lost is illumin= ating if one wonders about the appeal of the F=EBanorians and how Tolkien c= rafted his story to reflect the ambivalence surrounding F=EBan=E1ro et fils= . I suspect that Tolkien just might have had some passing familiarity with= Milton. > > What also interests me is the comment regarding the "hold o= f the > valar". Certainly Feanor and many of the Noldor who followed them = did > began to think of Aman as a sort of prison. But wasn't that because = > of the deception of the Morgoth? I mean, it is an interesting > thought= . The Valar maintained that the Eldar had come freely and they > could lea= ve freely. The Valar were *not without culpability* in the rebellion. Fr= om Parma Eldalamberon 17 under the entry of the root word "phan"(meaning "c= over, screen, veil") Tolkien wrote (around 1959 to 1960) that... "With reg= ard to Elves and Men, Eru made one absolute prohibition: the Valar were *no= t to attempt* to dominate the Children (even for what might seem to the Val= ar to be their good), neither by force nor fear nor pain, nor even by awe a= nd reverence that their wisdom and overwhelming majesty might inspire if fu= lly revealed... "The Valar -- all save one, Melkor, obeyed this prohibitio= n by Eru, according to their wisdom (footnote)." "Footnote: This is said b= ecause the invitation to the Eldar to remove to Valinor and live unendanger= ed by Melkor was not in fact according to the design of Eru. It arose from= anxiety, and it might be said from failure in trust of Eru, from anxiety a= nd fear of Melkor, and the decision of the Eldar to accept the invitation w= as due to the overwhelming effect of their contact, while still in their in= experienced youth, with the bliss of Aman and the beauty and the majesty of= the Valar. It had disasterous consequences in diminishing the Elves of Mid= dle-earth and so depriving Men of a large measure of the intended help and = teaching of their 'elder brethren', and exposing them more dangerously to t= he power and deceits of Melkor. Also since it was in fact alien to the nat= ure of the Elves to live under the protection of Aman, and not (as was inte= nded) in Middle-earth, one consequence was the revolt of the Noldor." (PE 1= 7, pp. 178-179) Although admonished not to interfere with the Children, ba= sed on what Tolkien wrote, it would seem that the Valar violated the Prime = Directive. Part of the fallout (note that Tolkien wrote that it was alien = to the nature of the Elves to live in Aman) was the rebellion. The fire ma= y have been stirred to conflagration by Melkor, but it was smoldering befor= e. Recall, too, that not all the Valar were in favor of carting the Elves = to Aman. Ulmo objected but was overruled by his well-meaning, if misguided= , peers. Of course, the Noldor couldn't do so because they > had no sh= ips of their own and well we all know what happened when > they crossed th= e Helcarax=EB. Than again... I seem to recall, and I am > too lazy to go c= onfirm it at the moment, that the Helcarax=EB froze > over as Morgoth fled= over it after stealing the Silmaril. Which may > mean that it was a viab= le land bridge to Middle-Earth for the elves, > should they have choosen t= o depart Aman that way before the > unchaining of Morgoth. Now here is an = interesting thought to ponder, > did the elves ever feel oppressed in Aman= before Morgoth came along > and convinced them that they were? The follo= wing passage from the Silm suggests that the Helcarax=EB was already an icy= peril: Through this region Morgoth and Ungoliant passed in haste, and so = came through the great mists of Oiom=FAr=EB to the Helcarax=EB, where the s= trait between Araman and Middle-earth was filled with grinding ice; and he = crossed over, and came back at last to the north of the Outer Lands. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2468 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23504 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 01:39:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 01:39:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 01:39:57 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c09.56432d99 (32913) for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:39:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:39:50 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235353190" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=z73VbgQ5Ij5hK7z6GUzv1ihGJgWIHVgdsMuBwAwJDKAANTCEI5jG X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1235353190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Valar were *not without culpability* in the rebellion. From Parma Eldalamberon 17 Thank you! You made my day. I had that concept in the back of my mind and I could not for the life of me remember where it came from. **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000002) -------------------------------1235353190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
The Valar were *not without culpability* in the reb= ellion. From Parma
Eldalamberon 17

= Thank you! You made my day. I had that concept in the back of my mind and = I could not for the life of me remember where it came from. =

You can't always choose whom you love,= but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Pers= onals.
-------------------------------1235353190-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2469 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81032 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 01:41:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 01:41:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s7.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.145) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 01:41:28 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W74 ([65.55.34.135]) by col0-omc3-s7.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:41:28 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_c8b02b96-309f-4011-8f5b-824209ef41e5_" To: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:41:28 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <42851.6479.qm@web56008.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2009 01:41:28.0764 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8BBA7C0:01C99557] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=IcAezhQ_qC-5o8UmMnwn6ldpG-iJEAy3WouIKaskZkv983UV61TrIA X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_c8b02b96-309f-4011-8f5b-824209ef41e5_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How one views the Valar (and their choices) ultimately comes down to po= litics. Thus, to the narrative voice of the Silmarillion (which I equate w= ith Elrond, ultimately, but it came from other places too), the 'unrest' of= the Noldor was evil stirred up by Morgoth, and while the Valar may have be= en a bit mistaken in inviting the elves to Aman in the first place, the Nol= dor were *really* wrong to rebel against them. But that is not the on= ly way of viewing the situation. > What also interests me is the comm= ent regarding the "hold of the > valar". Certainly Feanor and many of the = Noldor who followed them did > began to think of Aman as a sort of prison.= But wasn't that because > of the deception of the Morgoth? I mean, it is = an interesting > thought. The Valar maintained that the Eldar had come fre= ely and they > could leave freely. Of course, the Noldor couldn't do so be= cause they > had no ships of their own and well we all know what happened = when > they crossed the Helcarax=EB. Than again... I seem to recall, and I= am > too lazy to go confirm it at the moment, that the Helcarax=EB froze = > over as Morgoth fled over it after stealing the Silmaril. Which may > m= ean that it was a viable land bridge to Middle-Earth for the elves, > shou= ld they have choosen to depart Aman that way before the > unchaining of Mo= rgoth. Now here is an interesting thought to ponder, > did the elves ever = feel oppressed in Aman before Morgoth came along > and convinced them that= they were? Morgoth did not *create* the unrest of the Noldor. He fou= nd material to work with already available, and set about twisting it into = all-out anger and distrust. But that restlessness and desire to explore ne= w lands because Valinor had become too familiar...that was already in place= and, if you will, morally neutral. There was nothing wrong about the elve= s wanting to go back to Middle Earth. The Teleri had ships, so if the= Vanyar or Noldor wished to return, they could have learned ship-building f= rom the Teleri. It was not impossible for the elves to leave Aman; merely = difficult and dangerous. Prior to Feanor's rebellion, no one wanted to bad= ly enough to risk it. They were not forbidden to go until after the darken= ing of the Trees. [Some of the later versions of Galadriel's story deal wi= th this issue.] There was a reason Morgoth focused his efforts on the N= oldor. The Vanyar were very content in Valinor - they loved the light of t= he Trees, and they loved the Valar. The Teleri loved the Sea rather than V= alinor, but they did not aspire to greatness, so were likewise content with= things the way they were. It would be difficult to stir up either of thes= e groups using the motivations that Morgoth was most comfortable with. I d= o not see them as timid, so they would not have been any more susceptible t= o fear than the Noldor. But the Noldor had ambition, and that was what Mor= goth turned his attention to. Now, perhaps you can see why many peopl= e see the Teleri and Vanyar as boring and uninteresting, while the Noldor a= re worth the effort of getting to know. Who cares about people who are con= tent with their lot? We want to hear about the people who are going to cha= nge the world! So, if the Valar are seen as attempting to thwart or curb F= eanor's ambition, they could be seen as the oppressors here. I don't = have that view. I think the Noldor severely misunderstood the Valar, and t= hat their rebellion was out of very real grief but also ignorance. I can c= ertainly see why others would paint them that way - as Authorities, the Val= ar are certainly in a position to be criticized, and the narrator of the Si= lmarilliion does not really take the opportunity to do so. Bring on the fa= nfic ;) MithLuin -* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *- ** *-* |> | | | |\|= *-* ** * * God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light= from the darkness. Genesis 1:4 Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar = Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello. __________________________________= _______________________________ Windows Live=99: Discover 10 secrets about = the new Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.sp= aces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!7540.entry?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_u= gc_post_022009 --_c8b02b96-309f-4011-8f5b-824209ef41e5_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
How one views the Valar (and their choices) ultimat= ely comes down to politics.  Thus, to the narrative voice of the = Silmarillion (which I equate with Elrond, ultimately, but it came from othe= r places too), the 'unrest' of the Noldor was evil stirred up by Morgoth, a= nd while the Valar may have been a bit mistaken in inviting the elves to Am= an in the first place, the Noldor were *really* wrong to rebel against them= . 
 
But that is not the only way of viewing the situati= on. 
 
> What also interests me is the comment regard= ing the "hold of the
> valar". Certainly Feanor and many of the Nold= or who followed them did
> began to think of Aman as a sort of priso= n. But wasn't that because
> of the deception of the Morgoth? I mean= , it is an interesting
> thought. The Valar maintained that the Elda= r had come freely and they
> could leave freely. Of course, the Nold= or couldn't do so because they
> had no ships of their own and well = we all know what happened when
> they crossed the Helcarax=EB. Than = again... I seem to recall, and I am
> too lazy to go confirm it at t= he moment, that the Helcarax=EB froze
> over as Morgoth fled over it= after stealing the Silmaril. Which may
> mean that it was a viable = land bridge to Middle-Earth for the elves,
> should they have choose= n to depart Aman that way before the
> unchaining of Morgoth. Now he= re is an interesting thought to ponder,
> did the elves ever feel op= pressed in Aman before Morgoth came along
> and convinced them that = they were?

 
Morgoth did not *create* the unrest of the No= ldor.  He found material to work with already available, and set about= twisting it into all-out anger and distrust.  But that restlessness a= nd desire to explore new lands because Valinor had become too familiar...th= at was already in place and, if you will, morally neutral.  There was = nothing wrong about the elves wanting to go back to Middle Earth.   
The Teleri had ships, so if the Vanyar or Noldor wished to ret= urn, they could have learned ship-building from the Teleri.  It was no= t impossible for the elves to leave Aman; merely difficult and dangerous.&n= bsp; Prior to Feanor's rebellion, no one wanted to badly enough to risk it.=   They were not forbidden to go until after the darkening of the Trees= .  [Some of the later versions of Galadriel's story deal with this iss= ue.]
 
There was a reason Morgoth focused his efforts on the N= oldor.  The Vanyar were very content in Valinor - they loved the light= of the Trees, and they loved the Valar.  The Teleri loved the Sea rat= her than Valinor, but they did not aspire to greatness, so were likewise co= ntent with things the way they were.  It would be difficult to stir up= either of these groups using the motivations that Morgoth was most comfort= able with.  I do not see them as timid, so they would not have been an= y more susceptible to fear than the Noldor.  But the Noldor had ambiti= on, and that was what Morgoth turned his attention to. 
  Now, perhaps you can see why many people see the Teleri and Vanyar as bor= ing and uninteresting, while the Noldor are worth the effort of getting to = know.  Who cares about people who are content with their lot?  We= want to hear about the people who are going to change the world!  So,= if the Valar are seen as attempting to thwart or curb Feanor's ambition, t= hey could be seen as the oppressors here. 
 
I don't hav= e that view.  I think the Noldor severely misunderstood the Valar, and= that their rebellion was out of very real grief but also ignoran= ce.  I can certainly see why others would paint them that way - as Aut= horities, the Valar are certainly in a position to be criticized, and the n= arrator of the Silmarilliion does not really take the opportunity to do so.=   Bring on the fanfic ;) 
 
MithLuin
 
=

-* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *-
** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* ** * *

God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light f= rom the darkness. Genesis 1:4

Eru cenn=EB = sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello.



Windows Live=99: Discover 10 secrets about the new= Windows Live. View post. --_c8b02b96-309f-4011-8f5b-824209ef41e5_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2470 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96010 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 01:44:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 01:44:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 01:44:36 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 01:44:36 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 01:44:36 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:44:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=mt4EYxrMEzieLIt8K96hec3AC2cGZdKivA6Nr35KoDGsTKP5tuBYbkqq X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Marie Prosser wrote: > > > > > How one views the Valar (and their choices) ultimat= ely comes down to politics. Have a look at the text I quoted from Parma E= ldalamberon 17 and what JRRT wrote regarding the actions of the Valar and t= heir consequences on the Eldar. Bring on the fan fic indeed! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2471 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32805 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 01:49:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 01:49:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.188) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 01:49:45 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 01:49:45 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 01:49:45 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:49:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=KwD3dsPvTxBRT3h920cd7pYF2me1Frqz4kpve_fsOT3h_UQueXrUBKfH X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > The Valar were *not without culpability* in the rebellion. From Parma >= Eldalamberon 17 > > Thank you! You made my day. I had that concept in t= he back of my mind and I > could not for the life of me remember where it= came from. I'm not the linguistics aficionado (imaginary languages of an= imaginary history) that Darth Fingon is, but he and I have discussed how m= uch is revealed about the immense complexity of JRRT's secondary world base= d on his comments on meanings of words and implications. JRRT goes off on = riffs for a number of entries in PE17. "Phan" is a big one. I'd trade my = firstborn son for a copy of Parma Eldalamberon 12 (out-of-print) and the Qe= nya Lexicon, but I'm afraid my elder spawn would resist my attempts to pack= age and mail him through FedEx. Tolkien. Language. The more you know... = ;^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2472 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8000 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 01:52:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 01:52:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s7.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.145) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 01:52:45 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W54 ([65.55.34.137]) by col0-omc3-s7.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:52:45 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_83e57c59-4d9c-48ae-a833-977c012826c8_" To: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:52:45 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2009 01:52:45.0696 (UTC) FILETIME=[6C374800:01C99559] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=Yh6cVi2Wh_AxEBW-Ky2WC7ZEHz3bZbDAkt0XtQSc-NN8PVA83VaJ0A X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_83e57c59-4d9c-48ae-a833-977c012826c8_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > How one views the Valar (and their choices) ultimately comes down to >= politics. > > Have a look at the text I quoted from Parma Eldalamberon 1= 7 and what > JRRT wrote regarding the actions of the Valar and their conseq= uences > on the Eldar. > > Bring on the fan fic indeed! Yes, I just d= id. The 'politics' comment means that there is some judgement that goes in= to how evil Morgoth actually is, how right or wrong Feanor is to rebel, etc= . Is Feanor a villain, flawed/tragic hero, or noble revolutionary? Depend= s a lot on your perspective. JRRT certainly saw the Valar inviting the elv= es to Aman as a mistake (as I said), but he also has his narrator spend a l= ot more time condemning Feanor. The nuances of that ultimately come down t= o politics. The stances taken by various fanfic writers tend to deviate fr= om the tone of the published Silmarillion, but I think it is perfectly vali= d to bring an alternative interpretation to the events. In other words, wh= o is writing this history, anyway? If the Feanoreans got to tell their own= story, I don't think they'd do it the way the Silmarillion does! There is= a Russian-language version of the Silmarillion from Morgoth's point of vie= w painting him as a hero of sorts. That's why I called it politics. You c= ould defend the Valar, if you wanted to. MithLuin __________________= _______________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE:= =85more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_= WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_022009 --_83e57c59-4d9c-48ae-a833-977c012826c8_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > How one views the Valar (and their choices) ultimate= ly comes down to
> politics.
>
> Have a look at the tex= t I quoted from Parma Eldalamberon 17 and what
> JRRT wrote regarding= the actions of the Valar and their consequences
> on the Eldar.
&= gt;
> Bring on the fan fic indeed!

 
Yes, I just di= d.  The 'politics' comment means that there is some judgement that goe= s into how evil Morgoth actually is, how right or wrong Feanor is to rebel,= etc.  Is Feanor a villain, flawed/tragic hero, or noble revoluti= onary?  Depends a lot on your perspective.  JRRT certainly saw th= e Valar inviting the elves to Aman as a mistake (as I said), but he also ha= s his narrator spend a lot more time condemning Feanor.  The nuances o= f that ultimately come down to politics.  The stances taken by various= fanfic writers tend to deviate from the tone of the published Silmarillion= , but I think it is perfectly valid to bring an alternative interpretation = to the events.  In other words, who is writing this history, anyway?&n= bsp; If the Feanoreans got to tell their own story, I don't think they'd do= it the way the Silmarillion does!  There is a Russian-language versio= n of the Silmarillion from Morgoth's point of view painting him as a hero o= f sorts.  That's why I called it politics.  You could defend the = Valar, if you wanted to. 
 
MithLuin

Wind= ows Live=99 Hotmail=AE:=85more than just e-mail. Check it out. --_83e57c59-4d9c-48ae-a833-977c012826c8_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2473 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81218 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 01:54:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 01:54:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-m08.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.210) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 01:54:56 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imr-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c1c.4e1839ca (32913) for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:54:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:54:51 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235354091" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=KQjWaTA-6tjuRCUaKDsTb5qbm-UV1J_d2sCEOhipXj20TQMDANcE X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1235354091 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Parma Eldalamberon I have one. They are expensive. Have you tried places that re-sell out of print stuff. I've used Abe Books a lot, for example, but don't know if they ever deal in periodicals, **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000002) -------------------------------1235354091 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Parma Eldalamberon
 
= I have one. They are expensive. Have you tried places that re-sell out of = print stuff. I've used Abe Books a lot, for example, but don't know if they= ever deal in periodicals,

You can't a= lways choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals.
= -------------------------------1235354091-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2474 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33431 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 02:00:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 02:00:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s6.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.144) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 02:00:43 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W13 ([65.55.34.137]) by col0-omc3-s6.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:00:43 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_34036905-0861-43dc-b257-10001e9e4323_" To: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:00:43 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1235333265.289.9782.w5@yahoogroups.com> References: <1235333265.289.9782.w5@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2009 02:00:43.0391 (UTC) FILETIME=[88F1C0F0:01C9955A] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=6F3ylA7dqcF_XKrkc56Tda6B4r5cKQFNpC38TlWSh_cAvk1apawBDg X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_34036905-0861-43dc-b257-10001e9e4323_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Silmarilli= onWritersGuild group: > > Which of the three Noldorin houses do you most p= refer to write or read about? > > o House of Feanor > o House of Fingolf= in > o House of Finarfin > > Hard choice. One of my favorite Silmari= llion stories is Fingon and Maedhros having a conversation about Finrod's i= deas. Perelleth's 'In Vino Veritas' from her Droplets series. http://www.= storiesofarda.com/chapterview.asp?sid=3D4818&cid=3D19477 I think that d= ifferent types of stories are written about those characters. Depending on= what type of story you like to read, you may gravitate to one group over t= he others. I'll read about all of them. So far, I've only really written = the House of Feanor. > To vote, please visit the following web page= : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=3D282= 9686 > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not= collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site= listed above. > > Thanks! > Yeah, well, I listen about as well as the Fe= anoreans.... MithLuin ________________________________________________= _________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE:=85more than just e-mail. htt= p://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore= _022009 --_34036905-0861-43dc-b257-10001e9e4323_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for th= e
> SilmarillionWritersGuild group:
>
> Which of the th= ree Noldorin houses do you most prefer to write or read about?
> > o House of Feanor
> o House of Fingolfin
> o House of F= inarfin
>
>

Hard choice.  One of my favorite Si= lmarillion stories is Fingon and Maedhros having a conversation about Finro= d's ideas.  Perelleth's 'In Vino Veritas' from her Droplets series.&nb= sp; http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterview.asp?sid=3D4818&ci= d=3D19477
 
I think that different types of stories are wr= itten about those characters.  Depending on what type of story you lik= e to read, you may gravitate to one group over the others.  I'll = read about all of them.  So far, I've only really written the Hou= se of Feanor.   
 
> To vote, please visit = the following web page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionW= ritersGuild/surveys?id=3D2829686
>
> Note: Please do not repl= y to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote= , you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
> =
> Thanks!
>
Yeah, well, I listen about as well as the Fean= oreans....
 
MithLuin

Windows Live=99 Hotmail= =AE:=85more than just e-mail. Check= it out. --_34036905-0861-43dc-b257-10001e9e4323_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2475 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74254 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 02:00:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 02:00:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 02:00:51 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.cfb.4f32f7fc (32913) for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:00:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:00:46 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235354446" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of F... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=vXdGa6fsh-DDYAutl0D8dRnLLgt6zHdKUtMWoBJH6TbqGVFo08Pi X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1235354446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How one views the Valar (and their choices) ultimately comes down to > politics. In the broadest sense, everything comes down to politics. And, in the case of Tolkien studies, unfortunately religion. I am at this exact moment working on an essay and my searches for scholarly texts on the subject keep leading me back to a plethora of ill-written, poorly- substantiated articles written not as scholarly studies, but for partisan religious journals. It's frustrating. **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000002) -------------------------------1235354446 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
How one views the Valar (and their choices) ultimately comes = down to
> politics.
<= /FONT> 
In the broadest sen= se, everything comes down to politics. And, in the case of Tolkien studies= , unfortunately religion. I am at this exact moment working on an essay an= d my searches for scholarly texts on the subject keep leading me back= to a plethora of ill-written, poorly- substantiated articles written not = as scholarly studies, but for partisan religious journals. It's frustratin= g.
&n= bsp;

You can't always choose whom you l= ove, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL = Personals.
-------------------------------1235354446-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2476 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78108 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 02:02:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 02:02:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 02:02:35 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 02:02:35 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 02:02:35 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 02:02:33 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=mS2XHJLBui59783dV9a38yOgf_VRO3AmDKS3awn6zSPbhcZBs74CQ_ME X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Marie Prosser wrote: > > > > Yes, I just did. The 'politics' comment means that t= here is some judgement that goes into how evil Morgoth actually is, how rig= ht or wrong Feanor is to rebel, etc. Is Feanor a villain, flawed/tragic he= ro, or noble revolutionary? Depends a lot on your perspective. JRRT certa= inly saw the Valar inviting the elves to Aman as a mistake (as I said), but= he also has his narrator spend a lot more time condemning Feanor. The nua= nces of that ultimately come down to politics. The stances taken by variou= s fanfic writers tend to deviate from the tone of the published Silmarillio= n, but I think it is perfectly valid to bring an alternative interpretation= to the events. In other words, who is writing this history, anyway? If t= he Feanoreans got to tell their own story, I don't think they'd do it the w= ay the Silmarillion does! There is a Russian-language version of the Silma= rillion from Morgoth's point of view painting him as a hero of sorts. That= 's why I called it politics. You could defend the Valar, if you wanted to.= > > Yes, I quite agree with you that it's politics and viewed throug= h the potentially biased lenses of a historian, hence the nuances. The PE1= 7 passage, however, would seem to imply that the sub-creator of the seconda= ry world thought it was a mistake on the part of the Valar. Based on the i= nterpretative nature of fan fic, of course, one could defend the Valar. I,= personally, am not inclined to. Yep, I've heard about the Russian-languag= e version of the Silmarillion and there's the Morlindal=EB, too (of passing= interest, I guess, although its writing is wince-inducing). I'll stick to = Milton as my benchmark for the complexity of Evil(tm). From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2477 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9569 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 03:44:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 03:44:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.153) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 03:44:04 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so647166ywk.74 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:44:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.20.2 with SMTP id d2mr5356074ibb.37.1235360642741; Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:44:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:44:02 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032557467a47b68604638dd01f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=LeRLbYSdWIZtSILi34C4XmlG9iNfSeMBuz5IrSSv9x0MxP5DKixs X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00032557467a47b68604638dd01f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Marie Prosser wrote: > In other words, who is writing this history, anyway? If the Feanoreans got to tell their own story, I don't think they'd do it the way the Silmarillion does! Yes! You just summed up the premise of my work on the Feanorians. :D I, too, have always seen the texts as coming through Elrond: Rumil/Pengolodh* --> Elrond --> Bilbo, this being based on CT's remarks in the Foreword of BoLT1 that he always read (and Shippey agrees) the Silm as the Red Book of Westmarch. I always assumed that Bilbo got his sources/information from Rivendell and Elrond. * This is really simplified as to how writings got from Rumil to Elrond. But since it's not really relevant here, then I'm going to keep it simple. I view my writings as coming from a loremaster who would have been to the Feanorians what Pengolodh was to Turgon, maybe even one of the Feanorians himself. (I have ideas on this but am keeping mum on them so as not to spoil the story. ;) With Pengolodh as the primary loremaster in the First Age, I find it impossible *not* to consider how politics and allegiances would have influenced the story. I mean, Turgon blamed the Feanorians for Elenwe's death. I don't see him looking kindly on one of his lords and loremasters writing sympathetically about them, if even Pengolodh had access to this information. (He was born in Nevrast but, afaIk, we don't know how old he was when he went to Gondolin; he couldn't have been *that *old. *The Grey Annals* has only 116 years between the start of the First Age and the migration to Gondolin. Pardon me for not trusting a historian who lived in an isolated kingdom! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00032557467a47b68604638dd01f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Marie Prosser <mithluin@hotmail.com> wrote= :
> In other words, who is writing this history, anyway?  If the= Feanoreans got to tell their own story, I don't think they'd do it= the way the Silmarillion does!

Yes! You just summed up the premise = of my work on the Feanorians. :D I, too, have always seen the texts as comi= ng through Elrond: Rumil/Pengolodh* --> Elrond --> Bilbo, this being = based on CT's remarks in the Foreword of BoLT1 that he always read (and= Shippey agrees) the Silm as the Red Book of Westmarch. I always assumed th= at Bilbo got his sources/information from Rivendell and Elrond.

* T= his is really simplified as to how writings got from Rumil to Elrond. But s= ince it's not really relevant here, then I'm going to keep it simpl= e.

I view my writings as coming from a loremaster who would have bee= n to the Feanorians what Pengolodh was to Turgon, maybe even one of the Fea= norians himself. (I have ideas on this but am keeping mum on them so as not= to spoil the story. ;) With Pengolodh as the primary loremaster in the Fir= st Age, I find it impossible not to consider how politics and allegi= ances would have influenced the story. I mean, Turgon blamed the Feanorians= for Elenwe's death. I don't see him looking kindly on one of his l= ords and loremasters writing sympathetically about them, if even Pengolodh = had access to this information. (He was born in Nevrast but, afaIk, we don&= #39;t know how old he was when he went to Gondolin; he couldn't have be= en that old. The Grey Annals has only 116 years between the s= tart of the First Age and the migration to Gondolin. Pardon me for not trus= ting a historian who lived in an isolated kingdom! :)

Dawn

-= -
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org
--00032557467a47b68604638dd01f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2478 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22233 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 10:26:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 10:26:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n36b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.150) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 10:26:48 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 10:26:48 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 10:26:48 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:26:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=wexxfkqSqeN_l5w6NTN5kcMA_B4_4aBWgiPchEyvU_ZAdiI X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > > An indepth look at Milton's Paradise Lost is illu= minating if one > wonders about the appeal of the F=EBanorians and how Tolk= ien crafted his > story to reflect the ambivalence surrounding F=EBan=E1ro= et fils. I > suspect that Tolkien just might have had some passing famili= arity with > Milton. > > FWIW: The story of F=EBanor and family also ma= nages to tick a lot of the boxes in Aristotle's 'Poetics': "There remains= , then, the character between these two extremes,--that of a man who is no= t eminently good and just,-yet whose misfortune is brought about not by vic= e or depravity, but by some error or frailty. He must be one who is highly= renowned and prosperous,--a personage like Oedipus, Thyestes, or other il= lustrious men of such families... ...If an enemy kills an enemy, there is= nothing to excite pity either in the act or the intention,--except so far= as the suffering in itself is pitiful. So again with indifferent persons.= But when the tragic incident occurs between those who are near or dear to= one another--if, for example, a brother kills, or intends to kill, a bro= ther, a son his father, a mother her son, a son his mother, or any other d= eed of the kind is done--these are the situations to be looked for by the = poet... ...It is therefore evident that the unravelling of the plot, no le= ss than the complication, must arise out of the plot itself..." The eleme= nts of a good, juicy tragedy haven't changed much in two thousand years th= en :D (That ranting sound you hear in the background? That's where I got t= o Aristotle on women! Hah!) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2479 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1576 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 11:52:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 11:52:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.237) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 11:52:11 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 11:52:11 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 11:52:11 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:52:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=CCQ5nSMlXFHBj_-Kwi1Bj8fHwdDlKpSskjtMZKMgN130ck-a6KHUF_oa X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "moreth00" wro= te: > > > FWIW: The story of F=EBanor and family also manages to tick a l= ot of > the boxes in Aristotle's 'Poetics': I bow to the classicist extra= ordinaire for plucking out that fine example of an ancient story-telling th= eme. > > > The elements of a good, juicy tragedy haven't changed much in= two > thousand years then :D Heh. That archetype might just be hundreds= of thousands of years old. > > (That ranting sound you hear in the backg= round? That's where I got to > Aristotle on women! Hah!) Plato at least a= llowed that women could be educated. :^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2480 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94372 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 21:09:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 21:09:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n36b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.150) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 21:09:49 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 21:09:49 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2009 21:09:48 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:09:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=0rX06qAlGGQ4c95Bll3JZVIXGwAUBCX4tvcVppWQWBS83tmbT_xLBB8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Marie= Prosser > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > How one views the Val= ar (and their choices) ultimately comes down to > politics. > > Have a lo= ok at the text I quoted from Parma Eldalamberon 17 and what > JRRT wrote re= garding the actions of the Valar and their consequences > on the Eldar. > = > Bring on the fan fic indeed! Nooo, my house is too small for more plotbu= nnies! Although I have a Valar muse nudging me now. Oh dear Eru. *looks war= ily over her shoulder* I am curious about the other footnotes, so I might = come knocking on your door one day for those. As for the appeal - besides = the Nietzsche citation, just immensely fabulous! & great post -, I think in= a way the seven reflects character types we all encounter in life: be it f= amily, friends, colleagues with their vices and virtues. It makes it easier= for you to relate to them, I suppose. I just happened to have two Feanoria= n muses kicking out my Dunedain and Rohirrim ones and they never left... ;)= Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2481 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46951 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 22:56:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 22:56:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.109) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 22:56:18 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 10918 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2009 22:56:17 -0000 Message-ID: <132718.10608.qm@web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: L4dJt9MVM1n09Qq_wuk6qN2eHZGj3wWC6fOEpdXhpvfKgSKnJjASqZ6TNU9TMgNRTREX3qHDYUfguMEBn3V4qs4LI0Cn5bUkS7kcWUpTbGMO5_7p4MhMi1vpe3eDM.xML4SaoBVd2Saf6ptMUI0ezrOQ7I1CrruHf5oe1ObOK9TspK2bwhr1ZMxV542nI5YiXLm95QNKyKZO_h8- X-Received: from [70.64.19.221] by web25006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:56:16 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:56:16 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Reply-To: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=I3RHeWKeOAZFS02shLnHLJ4f5VPccGQkUj-RMjE2MOT0nyj75Q X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- On Sun, 22/2/09, pandemonium_213 wrote: > I'd= trade my firstborn son for a copy of Parma > Eldalamberon 12 > (out-of-pri= nt) and the Qenya Lexicon, but I'm afraid my > elder spawn > would resist m= y attempts to package and mail him through > FedEx. I'm still working on m= y Excel transcription of PE12, which is hindered only by the fact that I do= n't have Excel... CGL From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2482 Return-Path: X-Sender: il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89621 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 23:11:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 23:11:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.106) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 23:11:46 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 40305 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2009 23:11:45 -0000 Message-ID: <131296.40259.qm@web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: sLFPg5IVM1laoERig.r8hBXBDp.CoQb3ixO75clOxg4Vt_QZT1XyhNV90b8zbKBR3kQFp1.6zAJS6iDhAcI5WEg5uo.I6PIMRlg5RhDyrRLfFYMPOG6VwZmMdt2MJQRDcr9PqOLgW3_dAFmH_dD2lIyPJuKlxuYN2pEJGWz8Gga5WIjGQVYJbLM4cWTrOjaJnUTj1weqqrcioNU- X-Received: from [70.64.19.221] by web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:11:45 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:11:45 +0000 (GMT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: CGL Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=Q78KlCDSLpTpP_hHvbMbi6r4JP66hhiPiD7iQGLA36Ix3FY77g X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido --- On Sun, 22/2/09, Dawn Felagund wrote: On Su= n, Feb 22, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Marie Prosser wrote: >> = In other words, who is writing this history, anyway?=A0 If the Feanoreans >= >got to tell their own story, I don't think they'd do it the way the >>Silm= arillion does! >Yes! You just summed up the premise of my work on the Fean= orians. :D I, >too, have always seen the texts as coming through Elrond: >R= umil/Pengolodh* --> Elrond --> Bilbo, this being based on CT's remarks >in = the Foreword of BoLT1 that he always read (and Shippey agrees) the >Silm as= the Red Book of Westmarch. I always assumed that Bilbo got his >sources/in= formation from Rivendell and Elrond. So what happens if Elrond, well meani= ng soul that he is, worried that pure Elvish history was too rough for the = ears of Hobbits and opted to tone things down for Bilbo? Thus the whole QS= as we know it is a watered-down and Disneyfied version, while the truth li= es buried under years of dust in some forgotten corner of Elrond's library.= Bilbo: So, this passage here in this scroll, what does it say... somethin= g about obsessive death cults worshipping... Makar and Meass=EB? Elrond: (h= astily taking back the scroll) No no no, that never happened! You must hav= e translated the Quenya incorrectly. This is about... ah... how all Elves = are happy and at peace in Aman, singing songs in praise of Varda! Yes. Th= ey sing all day. Elves are a very nice, happy folk. CGL From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2483 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55376 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2009 23:40:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2009 23:40:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2009 23:40:57 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.d61.438d603a (37535) for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:40:51 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.148]) by cia-mb01.mx.aol.com (v123.3) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB018-5c5b49a334012c4; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:40:52 -0500 X-Received: from WEBMAIL-DB01 (webmail-db01.webmail.aol.com [205.188.105.66]) by smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com (v121_r5.5) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMB011-5c5b49a334012c4; Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:40:49 -0500 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:40:49 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 74.65.228.78 In-Reply-To: <131296.40259.qm@web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CB64274A74BB46_154_1B6D_WEBMAIL-DB01.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 41421-STANDARD X-Received: from 74.65.228.78 by WEBMAIL-DB01.sysops.aol.com (205.188.105.66) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:40:49 -0500 Message-Id: <8CB64274A68CF8E-154-D87@WEBMAIL-DB01.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=qZ9AGFlQxcnZKXDP7UlxMAL7sqjnb2TrZbYCilQ_Xk9fdzDndVUp X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CB64274A74BB46_154_1B6D_WEBMAIL-DB01.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" You must have translated the Quenya incorrectly. This is about... ah... h= ow all Elves are happy and at peace in Aman, singing songs in praise of Var= da! Yes. They sing all day. Elves are a very nice, happy folk. I love you= r interpretation. -----Original Message----- From: CGL To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 = 6:11 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Valar (was: Why do you = think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?) --- On Sun, 2= 2/2/09, Dawn Felagund wrote: On Sun, Feb 22, 2009= at 8:52 PM, Marie Prosser wrote: >> In other words,= who is writing this history, anyway?=C2=A0 If the Feanoreans >>got to tell= their own story, I don't think they'd do it the way the >>Silmarillion doe= s! >Yes! You just summed up the premise of my work on the Feanorians. :D I= , >too, have always seen the texts as coming through Elrond: >Rumil/Pengolo= dh* --> Elrond --> Bilbo, this being based on CT's remarks >in the Foreword= of BoLT1 that he always read (and Shippey agrees) the >Silm as the Red Boo= k of Westmarch. I always assumed that Bilbo got his >sources/information fr= om Rivendell and Elrond. So what happens if Elrond, well meaning soul that= he is, worried that pure Elvish history was too rough for the ears of Hobb= its and opted to tone things down for Bilbo? Thus the whole QS as we know i= t is a watered-down and Disneyfied version, while the truth lies buried und= er years of dus t in some forgotten corner of Elrond's library. Bilbo: So,= this passage here in this scroll, what does it say... something about obse= ssive death cults worshipping... Makar and Meass=C3=AB? Elrond: (hastily ta= king back the scroll) No no no, that never happened! You must have translat= ed the Quenya incorrectly. This is about... ah... how all Elves are happy a= nd at peace in Aman, singing songs in praise of Varda! Yes. They sing all d= ay. Elves are a very nice, happy folk. CGL ----------MB_8CB64274A74BB46_154_1B6D_WEBMAIL-DB01.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
= You must have translated the Quenya incorrectly. This is about... ah... how= all Elves are happy and at peace in Aman, singing songs in praise of Varda= ! Yes. They sing all day. Elves are a very nice, happy folk.

I love your interpretation.

-----Original Message----- From: CGL
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild= @yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 6:11 pm
Subject: Re: [Silma= rillionWritersGuild] Re: Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of Feanor ar= e as popular as they are?)



--- On Sun,= 22/2/09, Dawn Felagund <Daw= nFelagund@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 8:= 52 PM, Marie Prosser <mithluin= @hotmail.com> wrote:
>> In other words, who is writin= g this history, anyway?  If the Feanoreans >>got to tell their o= wn story, I don't think they'd do it the way the >>Silmarillion does!=

>Yes! You just summed up the premise of my work on the Feanori= ans. :D I, >too, have always seen the texts as coming through Elrond: &g= t;Rumil/Pengolodh* --> Elrond -->20Bilbo, this being based on CT's re= marks >in the Foreword of BoLT1 that he always read (and Shippey agrees)= the >Silm as the Red Book of Westmarch. I always assumed that Bilbo got= his >sources/information from Rivendell and Elrond.

So wh= at happens if Elrond, well meaning soul that he is, worried that pure Elvis= h history was too rough for the ears of Hobbits and opted to tone things do= wn for Bilbo? Thus the whole QS as we know it is a watered-down and Disneyf= ied version, while the truth lies buried under years of dust in some forgot= ten corner of Elrond's library.

Bilbo: So, this passage here in th= is scroll, what does it say... something about obsessive death cults worshi= pping... Makar and Meass=C3=AB?
Elrond: (hastily taking back the s= croll) No no no, that never happened! You must have translated the Quenya i= ncorrectly. This is about... ah... how all Elves are happy and at peace in = Aman, singing songs in praise of Varda! Yes. They sing all day. Elves are a= very nice, happy folk.

CGL


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----------MB_8CB64274A74BB46_154_1B6D_WEBMAIL-DB01.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2484 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23617 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2009 11:03:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2009 11:03:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2009 11:03:10 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2009 11:03:10 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2009 11:03:10 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:03:08 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <131296.40259.qm@web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=T6Vu53gyKr0rtLdjwvd63qkxi07fxJc7NDPUbad1sNMhutAK06VILGhH X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses (Briefly delurking) I've always had the feeling that Feanor is an effect r= ather than the cause of the Noldorin Exile. Do away with the Silmarils, do= away with Melkor's insinuations but keep the basic traits of the Noldor = and sooner or later they would have got fed up with Valinor and considere= d returning to Middle-earth. I agree with the idea that neither Vanyar nor= Teleri were prime candidates to return but for a people whose main concer= n was learning, discovery, challenging the limits of knowledge, doing thin= gs Valinor was bound to become after some time a dead end. The developmen= t of Philosophy (=3D love of learning, a very Noldorin feature) is related= with wonder at why the world is the way it is and works the way it does. = If the final answer to these questions lies around the corner -or up the M= ountain in this case- an explosive situation is bound to develop. As every= teacher knows, there are very few things harder to handle than smart kids= getting bored. And about the validity of the Silmarillion as a reliable s= ource for Elvish history, there's a song here that goes something like "If= History is written by the winners, that means that there is another Hist= ory" Dean Maia of Este: The Nietzsche quote rocks! (Crawls back under the= stone) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2485 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62548 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2009 14:56:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2009 14:56:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2009 14:56:09 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2009 14:56:09 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2009 14:56:09 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:56:06 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <131296.40259.qm@web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: Valar (was: Why do you think the sons of Feanor are as popular as they are?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=Tid52QJSoS0jrBMcn1ukExFZZrLf-gIcmkPVhqY10iDALkkQm66u3ypzzA X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked That's a good one! Also, let's not forget the admiration factor. As I rece= ntly read somewhere else "Admiration is a feeling furthest away from under= standing." We all know that Bilbo admired elves even before he met any. So= what if it's not Elrond's bias but Bilbo's bias that's coming through. If= he admired the elves before knowing anything about them, how would it hi= nder his efforts to understand them. Let's face it, true understanding com= es from not just knowing the good but also knowing the bad. Would it make = him try to present even their worst acts in a good light? Would it make hi= m "overlook" certain things? Or would certain things not even occur to him= ? Like, the obvious racial superiority complex that the Noldor displayed= . Would it ever occur to him that the Sindar probably found such an attitu= de degrading and irritating? Or would it simply not occur to him that elve= s could be condesending and petty towards each other? I mean, we know tha= t hobbits are not free from prejudice themselves. Before leaving the Shire= Frodo thought that men were all big and stupid and was surprised to see a= man like Aragorn. Specifically he thought Barliman Butterbur was stupid, = a notion that Gandalf dismisses. Sayign that Butterbur is sharp in his own= way. What do you guys think? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2486 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11953 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2009 17:03:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2009 17:03:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f164.google.com) (209.85.217.164) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2009 17:03:48 -0000 X-Received: by gxk8 with SMTP id 8so8312714gxk.17 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:03:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.15.74 with SMTP id j10mr61114iba.10.1235495028025; Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:03:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:03:47 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532cba0446ac50463ad1a6f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (was: Valar) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ONPkEMFGqNcCI9oxpuf03TV7c5UNb58IplruHAkelHCi0VqD0r4b X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532cba0446ac50463ad1a6f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I must confess that I am so glad of this conversation! For the longest time (not because of people on this group but *other* places that shall not be named ;), I felt like I was talking to myself in an empty room with respect to the trustworthiness of the various sources as far as "canon" goes. For example, being told that Feanor could have never been a nice guy, no how, no way, because all we ever see of him, he's a jerk! To which I would answer, well, given who "wrote" the stories (as in the fictional historians or narrator), do you think there might be a *reason* for that?? To which I was answered with the lonely chirping of crickets. Angelica writes that history is written by the victors. If the Feanorians had been successful in retrieving the Silmarils and overthrowing Melkor and had set up their own kingdom in Beleriand, I think they would appear differently in the stories, even at the parts where even people who like them admit that they were being jerks, e.g. the kinslaying at Alqualonde. CGL mentions the deliberate witholding of information. This is often an argument I use as to why *Laws and Customs among the Eldar* is not necessarily true, though it is Ultimate Canon for many people. Nearly all people want to show their own way of life in the best possible light to outsiders. L&C was written by a mortal, so he got his information from Elves; he was not writing about his own people. Can we trust that if there was premarital sex, homosexuality, and marital infidelity, then his sources would have told him about that, if these things went against their values? Aelfwine's values? I doubt it. Elrond passing information to Bilbo creates the same problems. Tinni notes bias, in wanting to see a group or person as good, noble, and justified in their actions. That works the other way too: in wanting to see a group or person as bad or unjust. Finrod, for example, is presented as a friend to non-Elven peoples. Whether or not he had imperialist intentions is never discussed. This isn't necessarily because he didn't have such intentions. Eol and Maeglin are nearly unredeemable. From the outset, they are Bad People. Well, yes, when the person writing the histories is from the realm that was destroyed by the actions of one and his lord's sister murdered by the other, I doubt he's going to be looking for their good qualities. There is the issue of exaggeration and just wanting to tell a good story, which Oshun has brought up in the past with respect to Thangorodrim stories about Maedhros. It's like the proverbial fish story: Every time the story is told, the fish grows a few inches. Every time the story is told, the hero is more heroic, his trials more trying; the woman (yes, I'm looking at you, Luthien) is more beautiful, more enchanting. The bad guy is more evil. The clouds are darker; the Trees are brighter. What kind of myth would it be if it said, "Well, to tell the truth, the Trees had a habit of flickering and going dim. I much prefer the Sun" or "Ungoliant was a spindly thing, to tell the truth, with eight of the prettiest jewel-bright eyes!"? What about where we have stories where no one could have possibly been present? How does Pengolodh know what happened at Losgar when he wasn't even born yet? How does *anyone* know what happened with Beren and Luthien when no one was present except them? (The *Ainulindale* is a bucket of worms I'm not even touching!) Who is passing on these stories and how much can we trust them? What about cultures writing about other cultures? If Rumil's writings passed (somehow) to Pengolodh, who passed them on to Elrond, who passed them on to Bilbo, we've got four distinct cultures here, each leaving their mark, each writing in such a way to make the other relatable to their own people. (I'm assuming that the culture of the Noldor in Aman pre-Darkening would have been very different from the culture of Gondolin some centuries later, and the culture of Rivendell distinct as well.) How well would a Hobbit in the Third Age "get" a Noldo in the Time of the Trees? I could go on. I won't. :) My story "An Ordinary Woman" competed in the MEFAs this year. The premise of the story relies on understanding the story of Beren and Luthien as a "big fish tale": Both characters were exaggerated beyond recognition by loremasters looking to tell a good, inspiring story. One of the reviews that I got remarked that the premise of the story was "controversial." I do not fault this reviewer for her observation--I agree with it and knew AOW would be seen as such--but I wonder why that's the case. Isn't the idea that JRRT was not the narrator of *The Silmarillion* as much--or more!--of a "canon fact" as anything else? Or is it because this fact has the habit of muddling all of the subsequent "facts" that it's easiest not to think about it? Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532cba0446ac50463ad1a6f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I must confess that I am so glad of this conversation! For the longest= time (not because of people on this group but *other* places that shall no= t be named ;), I felt like I was talking to myself in an empty room with re= spect to the trustworthiness of the various sources as far as "canon&q= uot; goes. For example, being told that Feanor could have never been a nice= guy, no how, no way, because all we ever see of him, he's a jerk! To w= hich I would answer, well, given who "wrote" the stories (as in t= he fictional historians or narrator), do you think there might be a rea= son for that?? To which I was answered with the lonely chirping of cri= ckets.
=C2=A0
Angelica writes that history is writte= n by the victors. If the Feanorians had been successful in retrieving the S= ilmarils and overthrowing Melkor and had set up their own kingdom in Beleri= and, I think they would appear differently in the stories, even at the part= s where even people who like them admit that they were being jerks, e.g. th= e kinslaying at Alqualonde.
=C2=A0
CGL mentions the = deliberate witholding of information. This is often an argument I use as to= why Laws and Customs among the Eldar is not necessarily true, tho= ugh it is Ultimate Canon for many people. Nearly all people want to show th= eir own way of life in the best possible light to outsiders. L&C was wr= itten by a mortal, so he got his information from Elves; he was not writing= about his own people. Can we trust that if there was premarital sex, homos= exuality, and marital infidelity, then his sources would have told him abou= t that, if these things went against their values? Aelfwine's values? I= doubt it. Elrond passing information to Bilbo creates the same problems.
=C2=A0
Tinni notes bias, in wanting to see a group or= person as good, noble, and justified in their actions. That works the othe= r way too: in wanting to see a group or person as bad or unjust. Finrod, fo= r example, is presented as a friend to non-Elven peoples. Whether or not he= had imperialist intentions is never discussed. This isn't necessarily = because he didn't have such intentions.=C2=A0Eol and Maeglin are nearly= unredeemable. From the outset, they are Bad People. Well, yes, when the pe= rson writing the histories is from the realm that was destroyed by the acti= ons of one and his lord's sister murdered by the other, I doubt he'= s going to be looking for their good qualities.
=C2=A0
There is the issue of exaggeration and just wanting to tell a good story= , which Oshun has brought up in the past with respect to Thangorodrim stori= es about Maedhros. It's like the proverbial fish story: Every time the = story is told, the fish grows a few inches. Every time the story is told, t= he hero is more heroic, his trials more trying; the woman (yes, I'm loo= king at you, Luthien) is more beautiful, more enchanting. The bad guy is mo= re evil. The clouds are darker; the Trees are brighter. What kind of myth w= ould it be if it said, "Well, to tell the truth, the Trees had a habit= of flickering and going dim. I much prefer the Sun" or "Ungolian= t was a spindly thing, to tell the truth, with eight of the prettiest jewel= -bright eyes!"?
=C2=A0
What about where we have= stories where no one could have possibly been present? How does Pengolodh = know what happened at Losgar when he wasn't even born yet? How does anyone know what happened with Beren and Luthien when no one was pres= ent except them? (The Ainulindale is a bucket of worms I'm not= even touching!) Who is passing on these stories and how much can we trust = them?
=C2=A0
What about cultures writing about other= cultures? If Rumil's writings passed (somehow) to Pengolodh, who passe= d them on to Elrond, who passed them on to Bilbo, we've got four distin= ct cultures here, each leaving their mark, each writing in such a way to ma= ke the other relatable to their own people. (I'm assuming that the cult= ure of the Noldor in Aman pre-Darkening would have been very different from= the culture of Gondolin some centuries later, and the culture of Rivendell= distinct as well.) How well would a Hobbit in the Third Age "get"= ; a Noldo in the Time of the Trees?
=C2=A0
I could g= o on. I won't. :)
=C2=A0
My story "An Ordina= ry Woman" competed in the MEFAs this year. The premise of the story re= lies on understanding the story of Beren and Luthien as a "big fish ta= le": Both characters were exaggerated beyond recognition by loremaster= s looking to tell a good, inspiring story. One of the reviews that I got re= marked that the premise of the story was "controversial." I do no= t fault this reviewer for her observation--I agree with it and knew AOW wou= ld be seen as such--but I wonder why that's the case. Isn't the ide= a that JRRT was not the narrator of The Silmarillion as much--or m= ore!--of a "canon fact" as anything else? Or is it because this f= act has the habit of muddling all of the subsequent "facts" that = it's easiest not to think about it?
=C2=A0
--00221532cba0446ac50463ad1a6f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2487 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41059 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2009 10:00:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2009 10:00:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.237) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2009 10:00:34 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2009 10:00:34 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2009 10:00:34 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:00:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (was: Valar) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=k5FyfYTv0O-NpE0WVufUgVk41UtUl2nG6aWVLheBhbeB9C9lYT15Eb70OQ X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked Well "cannot be trusted" I think is too strong a language. I wouldn't say = that it cannot be trusted because that implies that there might be outrigh= t lies in there, where the person doing the writing deliberately misrepres= ented the truth. I don't think it's anything that malicious. I think it's = more, that if Silmarillion is to be treated as an historical text, than it= should be treated with the same amount of scrutiny and analysis. I mean,= let's face. J.R.R. Tolkien was a professor and as a professor he probably= spent just as much time telling his students to "not takes things so much= at face value" and "think critically, who wrote this, why did they write = this, what were their goals, who was the intended audience" and other thin= gs that I myself have had to yell at my students before bashing my head ag= ainst a wall because they just don't get it. To that end, I think Profess= or Tolkien would be very happy that we are discussing the reliability of t= he Silmarillion in such an objective fashion, taking into account the auth= orship, provinence of information etc, etc. Afterall, these are valuable s= kills. Especially in the age of the internet. Hmm... this was more random= than I expected to be. A well, hope it still makes sense. --- In Silmar= illionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote= : > > I must confess that I am so glad of this conversation! For the longe= st time > (not because of people on this group but *other* places that shal= l not be > named ;), I felt like I was talking to myself in an empty room = with respect > to the trustworthiness of the various sources as far as "ca= non" goes. For > example, being told that Feanor could have never been a n= ice guy, no how, no > way, because all we ever see of him, he's a jerk! To= which I would answer, > well, given who "wrote" the stories (as in the fi= ctional historians or > narrator), do you think there might be a *reason* = for that?? To which I was > answered with the lonely chirping of crickets.= > > Angelica writes that history is written by the victors. If the Feano= rians > had been successful in retrieving the Silmarils and overthrowing M= elkor and > had set up their own kingdom in Beleriand, I think they would a= ppear > differently in the stories, even at the parts where even people who= like > them admit that they were being jerks, e.g. the kinslaying at Alq= ualonde. > > CGL mentions the deliberate witholding of information. This i= s often an > argument I use as to why *Laws and Customs among the Eldar* i= s not > necessarily true, though it is Ultimate Canon for many people. Nea= rly all > people want to show their own way of life in the best possible l= ight to > outsiders. L&C was written by a mortal, so he got his information= from > Elves; he was not writing about his own people. Can we trust that = if there > was premarital sex, homosexuality, and marital infidelity, then= his sources > would have told him about that, if these things went agains= t their values? > Aelfwine's values? I doubt it. Elrond passing informatio= n to Bilbo creates > the same problems. > > Tinni notes bias, in wanting = to see a group or person as good, noble, and > justified in their actions.= That works the other way too: in wanting to see > a group or person as ba= d or unjust. Finrod, for example, is presented as a > friend to non-Elven = peoples. Whether or not he had imperialist intentions is > never discussed= . This isn't necessarily because he didn't have such > intentions. Eol and = Maeglin are nearly unredeemable. From the outset, they > are Bad People. W= ell, yes, when the person writing the histories is from the > realm that w= as destroyed by the actions of one and his lord's sister > murdered by the = other, I doubt he's going to be looking for their good > qualities. > > T= here is the issue of exaggeration and just wanting to tell a good story, >= which Oshun has brought up in the past with respect to Thangorodrim stori= es > about Maedhros. It's like the proverbial fish story: Every time the s= tory is > told, the fish grows a few inches. Every time the story is told, = the hero is > more heroic, his trials more trying; the woman (yes, I'm loo= king at you, > Luthien) is more beautiful, more enchanting. The bad guy is= more evil. The > clouds are darker; the Trees are brighter. What kind of = myth would it be if > it said, "Well, to tell the truth, the Trees had a h= abit of flickering and > going dim. I much prefer the Sun" or "Ungoliant w= as a spindly thing, to tell > the truth, with eight of the prettiest jewel= -bright eyes!"? > > What about where we have stories where no one could ha= ve possibly been > present? How does Pengolodh know what happened at Losga= r when he wasn't even > born yet? How does *anyone* know what happened wit= h Beren and Luthien when > no one was present except them? (The *Ainulinda= le* is a bucket of worms I'm > not even touching!) Who is passing on these= stories and how much can we > trust them? > > What about cultures writin= g about other cultures? If Rumil's writings passed > (somehow) to Pengolod= h, who passed them on to Elrond, who passed them on to > Bilbo, we've got = four distinct cultures here, each leaving their mark, each > writing in su= ch a way to make the other relatable to their own people. (I'm > assuming = that the culture of the Noldor in Aman pre-Darkening would have > been ver= y different from the culture of Gondolin some centuries later, and > the c= ulture of Rivendell distinct as well.) How well would a Hobbit in the > Th= ird Age "get" a Noldo in the Time of the Trees? > > I could go on. I won't= . :) > > My story "An Ordinary Woman" competed in the MEFAs this year. The= premise of > the story relies on understanding the story of Beren and Lut= hien as a "big > fish tale": Both characters were exaggerated beyond recog= nition by > loremasters looking to tell a good, inspiring story. One of the= reviews that > I got remarked that the premise of the story was "controve= rsial." I do not > fault this reviewer for her observation--I agree with i= t and knew AOW would > be seen as such--but I wonder why that's the case. = Isn't the idea that JRRT > was not the narrator of *The Silmarillion* as m= uch--or more!--of a "canon > fact" as anything else? Or is it because this= fact has the habit of muddling > all of the subsequent "facts" that it's = easiest not to think about it? > > Dawn > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagu= nd > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2488 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64038 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2009 11:35:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2009 11:35:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2009 11:35:41 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2009 11:35:41 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2009 11:35:41 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:35:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (was: Valar) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=g3GnKG8rGum9uSS99RN0JHr2rERjVzyAEYMIvJU3QQV18VzJROFHNqw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Tinni" wrote: > > Well "cannot be trusted" I think is too strong a language. = I > wouldn't say that it cannot be trusted because that implies that > th= ere might be outright lies in there, where the person doing the > writing = deliberately misrepresented the truth. I don't think it's > anything that = malicious. I think it's more, that if Silmarillion is > to be treated as a= n historical text, than it should be treated with > the same amount of scr= utiny and analysis. I wanted to add this: much relies on what Bilbo was to= ld and what sources he had available at the time writing 'the Silmarillion'= . So it doesn't necessarily have to be that Bilbo deliberately left things = out or glorified things. To me one also has to consider how he went about g= athering information. Who would he have spoken to, what would be the possib= le bias of his sources, how much information would have survived that far a= head in the Third age are all matters that come to mind. I suspect that Riv= endell had a library, but also much depends on the librarian at hand and th= e purpose/assignement he or she had while doing the collection management. = If for example Elrond said to the librarian that he wanted all possible inf= ormation on his ancestors and not so much of others (like Silvan elves), I = think it is plausible that Bilbo while doing his research had a lot to work= with when it came down to Elrond's line. It would explain the emphasis on = that line on Bilbo's behalf, not that he deliberately ignored other houses = in favour of Elrond's. I know that Dawn already touched upon this, that a = loremaster in Turgon's service would be more inclined or perhaps was instru= cted to gather and write down information of Turgon's house, the same could= apply to the Rivendell library and loremasters. For us fannish writers it = leaves us to the exciting prospect of filling the other gaps of what might = have been. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2489 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45893 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2009 15:11:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2009 15:11:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s5.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.143) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2009 15:11:43 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W51 ([65.55.34.135]) by col0-omc3-s5.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:11:44 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_01e6e2e9-d7c8-44c3-9f63-da48446ffd58_" To: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:11:43 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2009 15:11:44.0235 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EA353B0:01C9975B] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (was: Valar) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=6XJ_Xluc_h15LGEQSthmU4Qcv4LzMlz5mEXym3dzT4UcaDLgqTzV2g X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_01e6e2e9-d7c8-44c3-9f63-da48446ffd58_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To me, the most obvious historical viewpoint worked into the Silmarilli= on is just that - the hindsight of history. The inevitability of the failu= re of the Noldor in their rebellion is not limited to the Doom of Mandos - = our narrator informs us of it at every step along the way. Each victory is= recounted with a sigh about how it would not last. This is not 'dish= onest' of the historian - knowing how the First Age ended is something that= probably should color how the history of that Age is recounted. But it do= es mean that the Watchful Peace passes by in a blip, even though it means M= orgoth was restrained to his fortress for centuries by the might of the Nol= dor (and Edain). Earendil is a hero while the early mariners of Turgon are= nameless, because he succeeded where they failed. For someone 'in th= e midst of' the story, many of these events might appear quite different. = Kinslayings are probably always evil (no matter how you look at them), but = Maeglin wasn't *always* a traitor...that's just how he ended. He is handle= d less kindly than Gorlim the Unhappy perhaps because his motives were dark= er and the damage he did far greater. But he held a place of honor in Gond= olin prior to his betrayal, and thus surely some people thought highly of h= im despite his unfortunate upbringing. The picking and choosing of what st= ories to tell (so little is said of the Green Elves, despite Beren and Luth= ien living among them, and the youngest Sons of Feanor being their neighbor= s) reveals a limited scope; these histories are not meant to be comprehensi= ve, and focus primarily on the Noldor. There are certainly viewpoints= and judgements expressed in the Silmarillion that could be challenged by a= scholar or a fanfic writer, and alternative interpretations explored. = MithLuin -* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *- ** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* ** * * God= saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness= . Genesis 1:4 Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c= =E1l=EB i morniello. > To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com= > From: rhapsody74@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:35:41 +0000 > Sub= ject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D= (was: Valar) > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Tinni"= > wrote: > > > > Well "cannot be trusted" I think i= s too strong a language. I > > wouldn't say that it cannot be trusted beca= use that implies that > > there might be outright lies in there, where the= person doing the > > writing deliberately misrepresented the truth. I don= 't think it's > > anything that malicious. I think it's more, that if Silm= arillion is > > to be treated as an historical text, than it should be tre= ated with > > the same amount of scrutiny and analysis. > > I wanted to a= dd this: much relies on what Bilbo was told and what > sources he had avail= able at the time writing 'the Silmarillion'. So it > doesn't necessarily ha= ve to be that Bilbo deliberately left things out > or glorified things. To = me one also has to consider how he went about > gathering information. Who = would he have spoken to, what would be the > possible bias of his sources, = how much information would have survived > that far ahead in the Third age = are all matters that come to mind. I > suspect that Rivendell had a library= , but also much depends on the > librarian at hand and the purpose/assignem= ent he or she had while > doing the collection management. If for example E= lrond said to the > librarian that he wanted all possible information on hi= s ancestors and > not so much of others (like Silvan elves), I think it is = plausible > that Bilbo while doing his research had a lot to work with when= it > came down to Elrond's line. It would explain the emphasis on that lin= e > on Bilbo's behalf, not that he deliberately ignored other houses in > f= avour of Elrond's. > > I know that Dawn already touched upon this, that a = loremaster in > Turgon's service would be more inclined or perhaps was inst= ructed to > gather and write down information of Turgon's house, the same c= ould > apply to the Rivendell library and loremasters. For us fannish write= rs > it leaves us to the exciting prospect of filling the other gaps of > w= hat might have been. > > Rhapsody > > > > -----------------------------= ------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ________________________________= _________________________________ It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same= =94 you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid= =3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009 --_01e6e2e9-d7c8-44c3-9f63-da48446ffd58_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
To me, the most obvious historical viewpoint worked= into the Silmarillion is just that - the hindsight of history.  The i= nevitability of the failure of the Noldor in their rebellion is not limited= to the Doom of Mandos - our narrator informs us of it at every step along = the way.  Each victory is recounted with a sigh about how it would not= last. 
 
This is not 'dishonest' of the historian - kno= wing how the First Age ended is something that probably should color how th= e history of that Age is recounted.  But it does mean that the Watchfu= l Peace passes by in a blip, even though it means Morgoth was restrained to= his fortress for centuries by the might of the Noldor (and Edain).  E= arendil is a hero while the early mariners of Turgon are nameless, because = he succeeded where they failed. 
 
For someone 'in the m= idst of' the story, many of these events might appear quite different. = ; Kinslayings are probably always evil (no matter how you look at them), bu= t Maeglin wasn't *always* a traitor...that's just how he ended.  He is= handled less kindly than Gorlim the Unhappy perhaps because his motives we= re darker and the damage he did far greater.  But he held a place of h= onor in Gondolin prior to his betrayal, and thus surely some people thought= highly of him despite his unfortunate upbringing.  The picking and ch= oosing of what stories to tell (so little is said of the Green Elves, despi= te Beren and Luthien living among them, and the youngest Sons of Feanor bei= ng their neighbors) reveals a limited scope; these histories are not meant = to be comprehensive, and focus primarily on the Noldor. 
  There are certainly viewpoints and judgements expressed in the Silmarill= ion that could be challenged by a scholar or a fanfic writer, and alternati= ve interpretations explored. 
 
MithLuin

-* -- |&g= t; |_ /|\ |\| -- *-
** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* **
* *

God s= aw that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness. = Genesis 1:4

Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9= m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello.



<= BR>

 
> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
&= gt; From: rhapsody74@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:35:41 +000= 0
> Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Silmarillion Cannot B= e Trusted! :D (was: Valar)
>
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild= @yahoogroups.com, "Tinni"
> wrote:
&g= t; >
> > Well "cannot be trusted" I think is too strong a langu= age. I
> > wouldn't say that it cannot be trusted because that im= plies that
> > there might be outright lies in there, where the p= erson doing the
> > writing deliberately misrepresented the truth= . I don't think it's
> > anything that malicious. I think it's mo= re, that if Silmarillion is
> > to be treated as an historical te= xt, than it should be treated with
> > the same amount of scrutin= y and analysis.
>
> I wanted to add this: much relies on what = Bilbo was told and what
> sources he had available at the time writin= g 'the Silmarillion'. So it
> doesn't necessarily have to be that Bil= bo deliberately left things out
> or glorified things. To me one also= has to consider how he went about
> gathering information. Who would= he have spoken to, what would be the
> possible bias of his sources,= how much information would have survived
> that far ahead in the Thi= rd age are all matters that come to mind. I
> suspect that Rivendell = had a library, but also much depends on the
> librarian at hand and t= he purpose/assignement he or she had while
> doing the collection man= agement. If for example Elrond said to the
> librarian that he wanted= all possible information on his ancestors and
> not so much of other= s (like Silvan elves), I think it is plausible
> that Bilbo while doi= ng his research had a lot to work with when it
> came down to Elrond'= s line. It would explain the emphasis on that line
> on Bilbo's behal= f, not that he deliberately ignored other houses in
> favour of Elron= d's.
>
> I know that Dawn already touched upon this, that a lo= remaster in
> Turgon's service would be more inclined or perhaps was = instructed to
> gather and write down information of Turgon's house, = the same could
> apply to the Rivendell library and loremasters. For = us fannish writers
> it leaves us to the exciting prospect of filling= the other gaps of
> what might have been.
>
> Rhapsody<= BR>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
= >
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your = group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Silmarillion= WritersGuild/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
> Indiv= idual Email | Traditional
>
> <*> To change settings onl= ine go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/j= oin
> (Yahoo! ID required)
>
> <*> To change setti= ngs via email:
> mailto:SilmarillionWritersGuild-digest@yahoogroups.c= om
> mailto:SilmarillionWritersGuild-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<= BR>> SilmarillionWritersGuild-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
&g= t; <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.y= ahoo.com/info/terms/
>

It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If= by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster. Get= your account now. --_01e6e2e9-d7c8-44c3-9f63-da48446ffd58_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2490 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86872 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2009 15:48:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2009 15:48:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2009 15:48:58 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c80.47549c94 (41812) for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:48:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:48:48 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235576928" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (wa... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=iCy_nDcJIm0Z2ttYa2rwQpT-cCxBhsk8lqEMwwgdGOB2WqF0KdHf X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1235576928 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/25/2009 5:00:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com writes: I think Professor Tolkien would be very happy that we are discussing the reliability of the Silmarillion in such an objective fashion, taking into account the authorship, provinence of information etc, etc. Afterall, these are valuable skills. Especially in the age of the internet. I have pretty much stayed out of this discussion, because I am really about not seeking objectivity. I approach storytelling from a completely subjective point of view. I use my own experience of life and what I have learned about the human condition and project those things onto what interests me from the texts. Stories that endure generalize from the specific to the universal and address the questions that move, intrigue, or engage people, that make them laugh or cry, or say, I know how that feels. Meanwhile there are things out of canon, of course, that strike me personally as silly, illogical or completely out of context, may strike someone else as fascinating. I tend to fall out of a story if I find a cowardly Fingon, a Maglor who has no imagination, Maedhros who whines and feels sorry for himself, but I run across stories that contain such elements. So those apparently appeal to somone, just not me. Some interpretations of canon seem ridiculous to me personally, but a good writer can convince me to read just about anything if it is well enough done. The texts interest me because because Tolkien created a fascinating world. But for me it is not science but art. On the other hand, I [articularly enjoy stories which apply science or politics to the texts and use that in a creative way. I do not think there is a defnitive answer to all these questions. And I do not want to talk about sun years vs. tree years, for example; my eyes glaze over. If someone else does I have no objections and I will leave them to enjoy it. For myself, I try fit the the canon text into a context in which I can talk about motivations, emotions, how real people behave, or any of the things that interest me or make a good story for me. Other people require other elements: horror, high adventure or suspense. If I alter something from the text, I footnote. If someone doubts my source, I am always happy to provide where I got it or how I extrapolated that detail. If someone disagrees or objects, I am happy to let them go on their merry way and write whatever they please. **************You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone. (ht tp://movies.aol.com/oscars-academy-awards?ncid=emlcntusmovi00000001) -------------------------------1235576928 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 2/25/2009 5:00:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, sharminchoudhury@yahoo= .com writes:
I think Professor Tolkien = would be very happy that we
are discussing the reliability of the Si= lmarillion in such an
objective fashion, taking into account the aut= horship, provinence of
information etc, etc. Afterall, these are val= uable skills. Especially
in the age of the internet.
I have pretty much stayed out of this discu= ssion, because I am really about not seeking objectivity. I approach = storytelling from a completely subjective point of view. I use my own expe= rience of life and what I have learned about the human condition and proje= ct those things onto what interests me from the texts. Stories t= hat endure generalize from the specific to the universal and address the q= uestions that move, intrigue, or engage people, that make them laugh = or cry, or say, I know how that feels.

Meanwhile there are things o= ut of canon, of course, that strike me personally as silly, illogical= or completely out of context, may strike someone else as fascinating. I t= end to fall out of a story if I find a cowardly Fingon, a Maglor who has n= o imagination, Maedhros who whines and feels sorry for himself, but I run = across stories that contain such elements. So those apparently appeal= to somone, just not me. Some interpretations of canon seem ridiculous to = me personally, but a good writer can convince me to read just about anythi= ng if it is well enough done.

The texts interest me because becaus= e Tolkien created a fascinating world. But for me it is not science but ar= t. On the other hand, I [articularly enjoy stories which apply science or = politics to the texts and use that in a creative way. I do not think t= here is a defnitive answer to all these questions. And I do not want to ta= lk about sun years vs. tree years, for example; my eyes glaze over. If som= eone else does I have no objections and I will leave them to enjoy it.
For myself, I try fit the the canon text into a contex= t in which I can talk about motivations, emotions, how real people behave,= or any of the things that interest me or make a good story for me. Other = people require other elements: horror, high adventure or suspense. 
 
If I alter something from the text, I foot= note. If someone doubts my source, I am always happy to provide where I go= t it or how I extrapolated that detail. If someone disagrees or objects, I= am happy to let them go on their merry way and write whatever they please= .
 
 

Y= ou're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars updates, re= d carpet pics and more at Moviefone.
-------------------------------1235576928-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2491 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57589 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2009 16:02:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2009 16:02:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.154) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2009 16:02:28 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 4so57246ywq.44 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:02:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.19.70 with SMTP id z6mr398222iba.29.1235577748388; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:02:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:02:28 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532c758c8fda70463c05c45 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (was: Valar) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=akFQ9jM_EgnpIEbuLed2ax_63E3zJiJ2fF4rIkN_l-R7v_YbQimi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532c758c8fda70463c05c45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm going to reply to the three new messages in this thread at once to avoid cluttering everyone's inboxes as much as possible. :) Tinni writes, > Well "cannot be trusted" I think is too strong a language. I wouldn't > say that it cannot be trusted because that implies that there might > be outright lies in there, where the person doing the writing > deliberately misrepresented the truth. You're more generous than me! :D I do think that the possibility of untruth is something that must be considered, which is not to say that I am pointing the finger at Bilbo, Elrond, Pengolodh, or any other names known to be associated with putting together the fictional history that is the Silm and calling them liars. But they, too, had to get their information from somewhere; they are not omniscient or omnipresent, so the trustworthiness of their sources and their sources' sources (and so on) must be considered. And since we don't know (and usually can 't even infer) those sources ... Furthermore, I don't think a lack of trustworthiness means that one must outrightly lie. I don't think the distinction is so clear as to truth versus lie but, rather, that it is graduated. For example, I might tell you that Bobby Felagund is the best ice-hockey player in the world. However, since I am Bobby Felagund's wife, my judgment is probably clouded and should not be trusted if you're writing a book about excellent ice-hockey players in the year 2009. ;) To me, however, Bobby Felagund *is* the best ice-hockey player in the world. I'm not lying when I say that; all the same, all things considered, my judgment is not absolutely trustworthy. So that is more my point in saying the Silm is not trustworthy: Not that it necessarily contains lies (although it might) but that, treating it as history, it requires a more thoughtful approach to how the "facts" it contains would have been influenced by the many factors we've brought up here. > I mean, let's face. J.R.R. Tolkien was a professor and as a professor > he probably spent just as much time telling his students to "not > takes things so much at face value" and "think critically, who wrote > this, why did they write this, what were their goals, who was the > intended audience" I agree. I have something of a *headsplode* moment when people who are able to descry dead authors' intent about everything from homosexuality to Celegorm's hair color nonetheless manage to look at me pie-eyed as they honestly affirm that a man who studied medieval texts would have remained oblivious to the implications of writing his stories from the point-of-view of historians and loremasters and, therefore, recognizing quite a wide breach between "fact" and "canon" is disrespectful and "AU." Rhapsy: > I wanted to add this: much relies on what Bilbo was told and what > sources he had available at the time writing 'the Silmarillion'. So it > doesn't necessarily have to be that Bilbo deliberately left things out > or glorified things. True! Add this to the fact that some of the cultures may not have been literate or may not have recorded history as we/the Noldor do (is it L&C that says that Elves don't write things down in books because they can remember everything?) and the plot thickens ... ;) Btw, I had to smile at seeing Rhapsody-the-librarian behind your comment! :D MithLuin: > This is not 'dishonest' of the historian - knowing how the First Age ended > is something that probably should color how the history of that Age is recounted. Good point! Hindsight is 20/20, after all. :) > Kinslayings are probably always evil (no matter how you look at them) I *personally* agree with this, but I am a pacifist and so do not represent the "normal" viewpoint at all. :) I think that *historically,* "kinslayings" are justified all the time. Since I'm breaking out the cliches today, I might as well sum this one up as "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." I can imagine that, if the Feanorians had taken the Telerin ships after the kinslaying, floated right on over to Beleriand, and immediately whupped Morgoth into submission (and therefore had leave to write their own histories) that the Telerin resistance to their "just" cause would be emphasized more than the Feanorians' depravity in resorting to violence in the first place. This is only speculation, of course, but I think would make a fascinating (and legitimately!) AU story. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532c758c8fda70463c05c45 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm going to reply to the three new messages in this thread at once = to avoid cluttering everyone's inboxes as much as possible. :)

T= inni writes,

> Well "cannot be trusted" I think is too = strong a language. I wouldn't
> say that it cannot be trusted be= cause that implies that there might
> be outright lies in there, whe= re the person doing the writing
> deliberately misrepresented the t= ruth.

You're more generous than me! :D I do think that the possi= bility of untruth is something that must be considered, which is not to say= that I am pointing the finger at Bilbo, Elrond, Pengolodh, or any other na= mes known to be associated with putting together the fictional history that= is the Silm and calling them liars. But they, too, had to get their inform= ation from somewhere; they are not omniscient or omnipresent, so the trustw= orthiness of their sources and their sources' sources (and so on) must = be considered. And since we don't know (and usually can 't even inf= er) those sources ...

Furthermore, I don't think a lack of trus= tworthiness means that one must outrightly lie. I don't think the disti= nction is so clear as to truth versus lie but, rather, that it is graduated= . For example, I might tell you that Bobby Felagund is the best ice-hockey = player in the world. However, since I am Bobby Felagund's wife, my judg= ment is probably clouded and should not be trusted if you're writing a = book about excellent ice-hockey players in the year 2009. ;) To me, however= , Bobby Felagund *is* the best ice-hockey player in the world. I'm not = lying when I say that; all the same, all things considered, my judgment is = not absolutely trustworthy.

So that is more my point in saying the = Silm is not trustworthy: Not that it necessarily contains lies (although it= might) but that, treating it as history, it requires a more thoughtful app= roach to how the "facts" it contains would have been influenced b= y the many factors we've brought up here.

> I mean, let'= s face. J.R.R. Tolkien was a professor and as a professor
> he proba= bly spent just as much time telling his students to "not
> take= s things so much at face value" and "think critically, who wrote =
> this, why did they write this, what were their goals, who was the=
> intended audience"

I agree. I have something of a *he= adsplode* moment when people who are able to descry dead authors' inten= t about everything from homosexuality to Celegorm's hair color nonethel= ess manage to look at me pie-eyed as they honestly affirm that a man who st= udied medieval texts would have remained oblivious to the implications of w= riting his stories from the point-of-view of historians and loremasters and= , therefore, recognizing quite a wide breach between "fact" and &= quot;canon" is disrespectful and "AU."

Rhapsy:

<= p>> I wanted to add this: much relies on what Bilbo was told and what> sources he had available at the time writing 'the Silmarillion= 9;. So it
> doesn't necessarily have to be that Bilbo deliberatel= y left things out
> or glorified things.

True! Add this to th= e fact that some of the cultures may not have been literate or may not have= recorded history as we/the Noldor do (is it L&C that says that Elves d= on't write things down in books because they can remember everything?) = and the plot thickens ... ;)

Btw, I had to smile at seeing Rhapsody= -the-librarian behind your comment! :D

MithLuin:

> This is= not 'dishonest' of the historian - knowing how the First Age ended=
> is something that probably should color how the history of that A= ge is recounted.

Good point! Hindsight is 20/20, after all. :)

<= p>> Kinslayings are probably always evil (no matter how you look at them= )

I *personally* agree with this, but I am a pacifist and so do not = represent the "normal" viewpoint at all. :)

I think that *= historically,* "kinslayings" are justified all the time. Since I&= #39;m breaking out the cliches today, I might as well sum this one up as &q= uot;One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." I c= an imagine that, if the Feanorians had taken the Telerin ships after the ki= nslaying, floated right on over to Beleriand, and immediately whupped Morgo= th into submission (and therefore had leave to write their own histories) t= hat the Telerin resistance to their "just" cause would be emphasi= zed more than the Feanorians' depravity in resorting to violence in the= first place. This is only speculation, of course, but I think would make a= fascinating (and legitimately!) AU story.

Dawn
--00221532c758c8fda70463c05c45-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2492 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7580 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2009 16:04:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2009 16:04:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2009 16:04:40 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.d47.3d1ae329 (41812) for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:04:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:04:34 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235577874" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (wa... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=nhF36B0Wm2NI5zhS9j4A2ALffuzi0AzMpWQIqFoYLJ5S27iXlFFF X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1235577874 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Immediately upon sending a reply on "objectivity" I opened another email and was directed to a completely separate discussion of a canon question and found this remark at the end of a series of suggestions for where to look for a specific fact. It completely summarizes more eloquently than I can how I work: "That doesn't mean the information is lurking on a scrap of napkin that JRRT scribbled on after a long night at the Eagle and Child. I'd say use it as a plot point regardless of what *cough* canon *cough* says. If you can write to convince and entertain the reader, that's what counts, right?" **************You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone. (http://movies.aol.com/oscars-academy-awards?ncid=emlcntusmovi00000001) -------------------------------1235577874 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Immediately upon = sending a reply on "objectivity" I opened another email and was directed t= o a completely separate discussion of a canon question and found this rema= rk at the end of a series of suggestions for where to look for a specific = fact. It completely summarizes more eloquently than I can how I work:
 
"That doesn't mean the information is lurking on a= scrap of napkin that JRRT scribbled on after a long night at the Eagle an= d Child. I'd say use it as a plot point regardless of what *cough* canon *= cough* says. If you can write to convince and entertain the reader, that's= what counts, right?"
 
 
<= br/>
You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone. -------------------------------1235577874-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2493 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44153 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2009 16:15:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2009 16:15:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.31) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2009 16:15:14 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 2so57804ywt.63 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:15:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.13.136 with SMTP id c8mr401019iba.45.1235578513406; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:15:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:15:13 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325575616623ad50463c08ac3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (wa... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=kLsp_6Xflh79MNguzAzrhLU5WtXpoIo6KYcR95U163PC4_kAw577 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325575616623ad50463c08ac3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:04 AM, quoted: "That doesn't mean the information is lurking on a scrap of napkin that JRRT scribbled on after a long night at the Eagle and Child. I'd say use it as a plot point regardless of what *cough* canon *cough* says. If you can write to convince and entertain the reader, that's what counts, right?" Yes! If it's not abundantly clear, I've pretty much stopped believing in "canon." (Taking *canon *to mean facts or truths about the texts that cannot be contradicted.) When I started writing Silmfic, I labored under the impression that there was an answer to everything and that, one day, I/we would find it. I've given up that dream and am a much happier writer since then. My interpretation of the texts allows for just about anything, even things that most people would dismiss as "AU" or "OOC," just as long as the dots are connected. It's not too hard to connect the dots, either. I know that's unpleasant for some but I find it *does* free my writing to focus on the story, not try to memorize and work in random "facts" to prove that I know what I'm talking about. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325575616623ad50463c08ac3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:04 AM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> quoted:
&q= uot;That doesn't mean the information is lurking on a scrap of napkin t= hat JRRT scribbled on after a long night at the Eagle and Child. I'd sa= y use it as a plot point regardless of what *cough* canon *cough* says. If = you can write to convince and entertain the reader, that's what counts,= right?"
Yes! If it's not abundantly clear, I'= ve pretty much stopped believing in "canon." (Taking canon to mean facts or truths about the texts that cannot be contradicted.)=C2= =A0When I started writing Silmfic, I labored under the impression that ther= e was an answer to everything and that, one day, I/we would find it. I'= ve given up that dream and am a much happier writer since then.
=C2=A0
My interpretation of the texts allows for just about any= thing, even things that most people would dismiss as "AU" or &quo= t;OOC," just as long as the dots are connected. It's not too hard = to connect the dots, either.=C2=A0I know that's unpleasant for some but= I find it *does* free my writing to focus on the story, not try to memoriz= e and work in random "facts" to prove that I know what I'm ta= lking about.
=C2=A0
Dawn
--000325575616623ad50463c08ac3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2494 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67784 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2009 16:26:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2009 16:26:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2009 16:26:48 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c7c.45639961 (41812) for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:26:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:26:40 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235579200" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (w... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=DmdiVVrqzS8Sr-Gma8Qy960xhYiHQM22yKXhwUBORGoMmDsv5khQ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1235579200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/25/2009 11:16:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: I know that's unpleasant for some but I find it *does* free my writing to focus on the story, not try to memorize and work in random "facts" to prove that I know what I'm talking about. Ditto. However, I am not above providing someone with a bit of canon "fact" or does not mean I don't want to hear someone else's comment on a detail I obviously did not intend to get wrong and got wrong accidentally. Last week someone posted a beautiful, insightful story about Maeglin. They pictured Idril with dark hair. I pointed it out to the writer and she changed it immediately--she did not want the story to lose its impact for Silm geeks over one physical detail. I once had someone point out a geograhpic detail to me, which I immediately fixed. (I had my character looking to the West and seeing the sun rise, because I had the map turned upside down in my head.) But if someone wants to tell me Maedhros is pure evil--we have nothing to talk about. What stalls me and makes me recalcitrant is when people want to tell me how Tolkien thought about something which is completely undocumentable. Or to tell me that one character or another could not possibly feel a particular emotion at a given time. **************You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone. (http://movies.aol.com/oscars-academy-awards?ncid=emlcntusmovi00000001) -------------------------------1235579200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 2/25/2009 11:16:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.co= m writes:
I know that's unpleasant for = some but I find it *does* free my writing to focus on the story, not try= to memorize and work in random "facts" to prove that I know what I'm ta= lking about.
Ditto. However, I a= m not above providing someone with a bit of canon "fact" or does not mean = I don't want to hear someone else's comment on a detail I obviously did no= t intend to get wrong and got wrong accidentally.

Last week someon= e posted a beautiful, insightful story about Maeglin. They = pictured Idril with dark hair. I pointed it out to the writer and she chan= ged it immediately--she did not want the story to lose its impact for Silm = geeks over one physical detail. I once had someone point out a geograhpic = detail to me, which I immediately fixed. (I had my character looking to th= e West and seeing the sun rise, because I had the map turned upside down i= n my head.) But if someone wants to tell me Maedhros is pure evil--we have= nothing to talk about.
 
What stalls me and ma= kes me recalcitrant is when people want to tell me how Tolkien thought abo= ut something which is completely undocumentable. Or to tell me that one ch= aracter or another could not possibly feel a particular emotion at a given= time.

You're invited to Hollywood's bi= ggest party: Get Oscars updates, red carpet pics and more at Movie= fone.
-------------------------------1235579200-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2495 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7634 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2009 18:25:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2009 18:25:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.188) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2009 18:25:49 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2009 18:25:49 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2009 18:25:49 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:25:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (wa... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=Ih-t3EuJYsK2ea-BnE-ti43dnpsdgDiOdOJjmM4_6IQ2O8rUPplYCtCU X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = > Immediately upon sending a reply on "objectivity" I opened another email = and > was directed to a completely separate discussion of a canon questio= n and > found this remark at the end of a series of suggestions for where= to look for a > specific fact. It completely summarizes more eloquently = than I can how I work: > > "That doesn't mean the information is lurking= on a scrap of napkin that JRRT > scribbled on after a long night at the = Eagle and Child. I'd say use it as a > plot point regardless of what *cou= gh* canon *cough* says. If you can write to > convince and entertain the = reader, that's what counts, right?" > > Ha! I resemble that remark! I = should note that thread is now careening into "Ways to Destroy Imladris" wi= th Morgeth Arms Industries, Inc. cheerfully providing the means. :^D From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2496 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94010 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2009 18:31:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2009 18:31:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2009 18:31:57 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.c36.48d46a9b (41812) for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:30:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:31:42 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235586702" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (wa... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=QEIlMC5xk4rm_cu9No86C9ycpihKwl273SU1ynlC37grQA6HPI-t X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1235586702 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/25/2009 1:26:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: Ha! I resemble that remark! I should note that thread is now careening into "Ways to Destroy Imladris" with Morgeth Arms Industries, Inc. cheerfully providing the means. :^D Sorry! I am too busy right now to think about how to destroy Rivendell. I'll just have to check on it later. (I trust the capabilities of that particular group to know the answer, however. You don't need a fussy-headed daydreamer like me to figure that one out.) **************You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone. (http://movies.aol.com/oscars-academy-awards?ncid=emlcntusmovi00000001) -------------------------------1235586702 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 2/25/2009 1:26:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, docbushwell@gmail.com = writes:
Ha! I resemble that remark!
=
I should note that thread is now careening into "Ways to Destroy
= Imladris" with Morgeth Arms Industries, Inc. cheerfully providing themeans. :^D
Sorry! I a= m too busy right now to think about how to destroy Rivendell. I'll just ha= ve to check on it later. (I trust the capabilities of that particular grou= p to know the answer, however. You don't need a fussy-headed daydream= er like me to figure that one out.)

You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars update= s, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone.
-------------------------------1235586702-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2497 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14604 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2009 07:05:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2009 07:05:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.126) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2009 07:05:48 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2009 07:05:48 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2009 07:05:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 07:05:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (wa... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=wraBcjzBUbI4kupvM828_PPNk8WFl4WcIal0I6NIvjST-Qzwk516r-Uukw X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked > > I have pretty much stayed out of this discussion, because I am reall= y about > not seeking objectivity. I approach storytelling from a complet= ely subjective > point of view. I use my own experience of life and what= I have learned about > the human condition and project those things ont= o what interests me from the > texts. Stories that endure generalize fro= m the specific to the universal and > address the questions that move, i= ntrigue, or engage people, that make them > laugh or cry, or say, I know= how that feels. I mean my comment more in light of Prof. Tolkien being = a humanities professor and the manner in which students of humanities trea= t literature. Which is summed up rather nicely by the following comic: ht= tp://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=3D908 :) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2498 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56360 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2009 09:29:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2009 09:29:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2009 09:29:51 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.d53.42acd9be (32914) for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 04:29:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 04:29:45 EST To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1235640585" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (wa... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=XGK864CaiMVF-OnpxXNLRfnAw8X1F2kQiPLsVBXioA_-sxvu38xb X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1235640585 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great cartoon! **************You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone. (http://movies.aol.com/oscars-academy-awards?ncid=emlcntusmovi00000001) -------------------------------1235640585 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Great cartoon!
You're invited to Hollywood's biggest par= ty: Get Oscars updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone.=
-------------------------------1235640585-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2499 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87002 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2009 15:11:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2009 15:11:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.153) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2009 15:11:30 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 4so381864yxp.56 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 07:11:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.19.72 with SMTP id z8mr1950754iba.42.1235661090388; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 07:11:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:11:30 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532cf345afbbe0463d3c47f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (wa... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=4HJAXvUxr-CfUU6ZTtq5xTAnrJo-Njkzm09Iic0yrr-HwA4gY0Vt X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532cf345afbbe0463d3c47f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tinni, that cartoon is great! My first degree is in psychology (a social science) and my current studies are in literature (humanities), so both are too, too familiar! :D Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532cf345afbbe0463d3c47f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tinni, that cartoon is great! My first degree is in psychology (a soci= al science) and my current studies are in literature (humanities), so both = are too, too familiar! :D
=C2=A0
Dawn
--00221532cf345afbbe0463d3c47f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2500 Return-Path: X-Sender: sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2918 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2009 03:40:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2009 03:40:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2009 03:40:00 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2009 03:40:00 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2009 03:40:00 -0000 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:39:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Tinni" Subject: Re: The Silmarillion Cannot Be Trusted! :D (wa... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=t_iPGfCnLiDCo8yEAB1Ql_1LxBQ9Xef283ha-z1FjcYEHnUP-YrDVsIXYw X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked :) I am glad the comic was good for a chuckle or two. --- In SilmarillionW= ritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > T= inni, that cartoon is great! My first degree is in psychology (a social > = science) and my current studies are in literature (humanities), so both ar= e > too, too familiar! :D > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2501 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64939 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2009 18:48:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2009 18:48:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.244) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2009 18:48:31 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c2so910468anc.41 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:48:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.16.199 with SMTP id p7mr2433790iba.40.1235760510629; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:48:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:48:30 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022152d7f4d43785d0463eaea47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: March Is Back to Middle-earth Month! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=eVyNZ4xrs1fgKuRd2TrNyg51tpAvNMfsOS0N7_ZRvQAFOkRsUqTv X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0022152d7f4d43785d0463eaea47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Every year, the SWG participates in Back to Middle-earth Month, which was originally created in order to keep the momentum going after the release of the third movie. This year, in keeping with 2009's theme "Influences," we are offering a creative challenge to the writers and artists in our group. We encourage everyone to brush off the winter blues or say goodbye to the heat of summer (depending on which hemisphere you're in ;) and join us this month in creating stories, poems, and artwork that take us "back to Middle-earth." The guidelines for this year's project are posted on our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index.php. I will also repost them in this message. Each day's prompt will be posted here, on our LJ community, and on the website. Responses are welcome in all three of those places as well. Other groups and lists that might be interested in playing along, please contact me off-list, and I will send you a list of the prompts. As always, I appreciate anyone who wishes to pass the word of this event along to others who may be interested. Happy writing and drawing! Dawn ------- March Is Back to Middle-earth Month! Often, as creators of Tolkien-based writing and artwork, when we are asked to consider what influences us, we think first of favorite characters, favorite scenes, or the quote that--the first time we read it--made our hearts lurch and imaginations begin to whirl. Each day through the month of March, we will post a prompt on our homepage, LiveJournal community, and Yahoo! group--but we are changing directions a bit from the usual fiction and art challenge. This time, we will start with our lives and experiences as writers or artists and create a Tolkien-themed work based on these. The goal is not to create full stories or even complete works but rather to explore how our writing and artwork is influenced by the experiences, opinions, and emotions that we bring with us from our non-fannish lives. We encourage all of our fellow Tolkien fans to join us in expanding our creative horizons this month! *Guidelines for the project are as follows:* 1. Any response to the prompts is acceptable: fiction, non-fiction, poetry, visual art, or any other creative response that you can dream up! Because it is a daily challenge, most responses will be small: a drabble, haiku, or a quick sketch. Participants may combine multiple prompts into a single longer work, if they would like. For example, each day's response could form part of a character study. Three related prompts might be worked into a short story or a comic strip. 2. Works do not have to be complete. 3. All participants will have their choice of banners to commemorate their efforts, as well as an icon for each day's prompt. Participants who write something for every prompt will receive a banner honoring this achievement as well. 4. Because this is a Back to Middle-earth Month project, for responses to count for credit, they must relate to Tolkien's works in some way. We will take your word that a response is Tolkien-related because ... 5. We are not going to judge, analyze, cross-examine, and interrogate responses. It is up to you to decide what counts for "credit." If the day's prompt inspires a four-line poem, that is just as acceptable as a 4,000-word story. Responses will necessarily be very different. We're not going to decide for you whether your response matches closely enough to the day's prompt to count for credit. We'll trust participants to make that decision for themselves. 6. You do not have to do the prompt on the day that it's posted. Some participants may want to take time to think about a prompt before writing for it. Others may not be able to find time to get online or write each day. We'll allow until 14 April to get responses completed for the project. 7. Sometimes, the challenges ask you to write briefly about an experience from your own life before creating your story, poem, or artwork. If you choose to share your work, you do not have to share this pre-writing unless your are comfortable and willing to do so. 8. Of course, this means that participants must show us or tell us that they've done the day's prompt. We'll be keeping an eye on the various groups affiliated with the SWG, but if you've posted your work outside of the SWG, please let us know. If you don't want to share your response publicly, simply drop us an email letting us know that you completed the day's prompt (no, you don't even have to show your work!) and we'll see that you get credit. Now, if you want to share your work, where can you do so? We will post each days prompt on both our LiveJournal communityand our Yahoo! mailing list . We welcome participants to post or link to all Tolkien-based entries as a reply to the original post. (Yes, this means that you can share work based on *The Hobbit* or *The Lord of the Rings* here as well.) *Silmarillion*-based work may be posted as a separate entry, if you prefer. *Silmarillion*-based writing is welcome on our archive. Please add your story to the B2MeM 2009 challenge on the story form. If you need help with this, just let us know! As always, please direct all questions to us at moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0022152d7f4d43785d0463eaea47 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Every year, the SWG participates in Back to Middle-earth Month, which was o= riginally created in order to keep the momentum going after the release of = the third movie. This year, in keeping with 2009's theme "Influenc= es," we are offering a creative challenge to the writers and artists i= n our group. We encourage everyone to brush off the winter blues or say goo= dbye to the heat of summer (depending on which hemisphere you're in ;) = and join us this month in creating stories, poems, and artwork that take us= "back to Middle-earth."

The guidelines for this year'= ;s project are posted on our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index.php<= /a>. I will also repost them in this message. Each day's prompt will be= posted here, on our LJ community, and on the website. Responses are welcom= e in all three of those places as well.

Other groups and lists that= might be interested in playing along, please contact me off-list, and I wi= ll send you a list of the prompts. As always, I appreciate anyone who wishe= s to pass the word of this event along to others who may be interested.
=
Happy writing and drawing!

Dawn

-------

March= Is Back to Middle-earth Month!

Often, as creators of Tolkien-base= d writing and artwork, when we are asked to consider what influences us, we= think first of favorite characters, favorite scenes, or the quote that--th= e first time we read it--made our hearts lurch and imaginations begin to wh= irl. Each day through the month of March, we will post a prompt on our home= page, LiveJournal community, and Yahoo! group--but we are changing directio= ns a bit from the usual fiction and art challenge. This time, we will start= with our lives and experiences as writers or artists and create a Tolkien-= themed work based on these.

The goal is not to create full stories = or even complete works but rather to explore how our writing and artwork is= influenced by the experiences, opinions, and emotions that we bring with u= s from our non-fannish lives. We encourage all of our fellow Tolkien fans t= o join us in expanding our creative horizons this month!

Gu= idelines for the project are as follows:

  1. Any response= to the prompts is acceptable: fiction, non-fiction, poetry, visual art, or= any other creative response that you can dream up! Because it is a daily c= hallenge, most responses will be small: a drabble, haiku, or a quick sketch= . Participants may combine multiple prompts into a single longer work, if t= hey would like. For example, each day's response could form part of a c= haracter study. Three related prompts might be worked into a short story or= a comic strip.
  2. Works do not have to be complete.
  3. All parti= cipants will have their choice of banners to commemorate their efforts, as = well as an icon for each day's prompt. Participants who write something= for every prompt will receive a banner honoring this achievement as well.<= /li>
  4. Because this is a Back to Middle-earth Month project, for responses= to count for credit, they must relate to Tolkien's works in some way. = We will take your word that a response is Tolkien-related because ...
    5. <= li>We are not going to judge, analyze, cross-examine, and interrogate respo= nses. It is up to you to decide what counts for "credit." If the = day's prompt inspires a four-line poem, that is just as acceptable as a= 4,000-word story. Responses will necessarily be very different. We're = not going to decide for you whether your response matches closely enough to= the day's prompt to count for credit. We'll trust participants to = make that decision for themselves.
  5. You do not have to do the prompt= on the day that it's posted. Some participants may want to take time t= o think about a prompt before writing for it. Others may not be able to fin= d time to get online or write each day. We'll allow until 14 April to g= et responses completed for the project.
  6. Sometimes, the challenges a= sk you to write briefly about an experience from your own life before creat= ing your story, poem, or artwork. If you choose to share your work, you do = not have to share this pre-writing unless your are comfortable and willing = to do so.
  7. Of course, this means that participants must show us or t= ell us that they've done the day's prompt. We'll be keeping an = eye on the various groups affiliated with the SWG, but if you've posted= your work outside of the SWG, please let us know. If you don't want to= share your response publicly, simply drop us an email letting us know that= you completed the day's prompt (no, you don't even have to show yo= ur work!) and we'll see that you get credit.

Now, if you = want to share your work, where can you do so?

We will post each day= s prompt on both our LiveJournal community and our Yahoo! mailing list. We welcome part= icipants to post or link to all Tolkien-based entries as a reply to the ori= ginal post. (Yes, this means that you can share work based on The Hobbi= t or The Lord of the Rings here as well.) Silmarillion-based work may be posted as a separate entry, if you prefer.

Silmarillion-based writing is welcome on our archive. Please add your= story to the B2MeM 2009 challenge on the story form. If you need help with= this, just let us know!

As always, please direct all questions to = us at moderator@s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org.



--
~oOo~
D= awn Felagund
htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0022152d7f4d43785d0463eaea47-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2502 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31024 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2009 06:20:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2009 06:20:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.156) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2009 06:20:30 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so1149334ywm.18 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:20:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.16.74 with SMTP id n10mr2892657iba.23.1235888429334; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:20:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 01:20:29 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574d7acfff9b046408b256 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=_FelkCRO_g-O1TEHgo0tUQyc1G6NRamFqJcE6H7yjlsB_IqI2VOV X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325574d7acfff9b046408b256 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today is the first day of B2MeM, so here is the first day's prompt: Margaret Atwood once wrote: "We are learning to make a fire." Create your own story, poem or piece of art around this. -- If you want/need a reminder about project guidelines, they are up on the main page of our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index.php And banners and icons for participants are available here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php Remember that *all* Tolkien-inspired work is welcome on this list or in the comments to prompt posts on our LJ community. Silmfic is welcome on the archive as well. Happy writing! (Or drawing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325574d7acfff9b046408b256 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today is the first day of B2MeM, so here is the first day's prompt:
=
Margaret Atwood once wrote: "We are learning to make a fire."= Create your own story, poem or piece of art around this.

--

= If you want/need a reminder about project guidelines, they are up on the m= ain page of our website:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index.php
And banners and icons for participants are available here:

http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

Rememb= er that all Tolkien-inspired work is welcome on this list or in the = comments to prompt posts on our LJ community. Silmfic is welcome on the arc= hive as well.

Happy writing! (Or drawing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= br>http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org
--000325574d7acfff9b046408b256-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2503 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48693 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2009 18:42:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2009 18:42:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.155) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2009 18:42:56 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 4so1192945ywq.48 for ; Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:42:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.16.199 with SMTP id p7mr3002005iba.40.1235932974819; Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:42:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 13:42:54 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022152d7f4dee2be8046413119f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: March 2009 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=aVQwdEMLF0JmD9ikjDJS12NNLR2B1YIebPFHHj7gTsX6ABE2Wg-M X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0022152d7f4dee2be8046413119f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, Our newsletter for March 2009 is posted on the website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/march2009.php This month, we have a new challenge and quote, as well as news from in and around the SWG. In addition, Oshun has written this month's character biography on Fingon, an impressive essay the summarizes his role in the texts and discusses some of the questions and controversies surrounding his character. Darth Fingon debuts his column Linguistic Foolery by answering frequently asked questions about the meanings of characters' names. Both articles are informative and highly recommended! Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0022152d7f4dee2be8046413119f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Our newsletter for March 2009 is posted on the website:
=
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/march2009.php

This = month, we have a new challenge and quote, as well as news from in and aroun= d the SWG. In addition, Oshun has written this month's character biogra= phy on Fingon, an impressive essay the summarizes his role in the texts and= discusses some of the questions and controversies surrounding his characte= r. Darth Fingon debuts his column Linguistic Foolery by answering frequentl= y asked questions about the meanings of characters' names. Both article= s are informative and highly recommended!

Enjoy!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org
--0022152d7f4dee2be8046413119f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2504 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53840 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2009 03:51:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2009 03:51:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.29) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2009 03:51:22 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 5so4618335ywb.87 for ; Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:51:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.16.74 with SMTP id n10mr3108923iba.44.1235965882282; Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:51:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 22:51:22 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574d7a5e329504641abbb6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Two X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mPEH8mASLtD8BuVTMTe4_4QhyXziBGuCwtSHuwi8KJQBZleklQLZ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325574d7a5e329504641abbb6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today is Mercurial Monday! Because Monday is usually the worst day of the week, we've chosen this day to make life a little easier for our B2MeM participants. Each Monday, we will offer *two* prompts that are somewhat opposites. Choose whichever you'd like. If you write for both, the second entry can be used in place of *any* day's prompt during the month. Today's prompts are: 1. Think of the most dangerous situation you can face. Have you ever been in such serious danger? What is the greatest danger that you have experienced? Think or write briefly about your experiences (or lack of experiences!) with danger. Write a story, poem or create an artwork where the characters face a great danger or where characters reflect on their reaction to a great danger. And, inspired by the group discussion on whether the Elves in Aman have servants ... 2. What is the most tedious, routine work that you have to do? Write down a few tedious or routine tasks that you're sometimes required to perform. How does doing routine work make you feel? Would you like to have somebody do it for you? Now write a story, poem or create an artwork where characters have to deal with tedious jobs. -- Remember that *any* Tolkien-based writing is welcome for B2MeM. Feel free to share all of your entries here or in comments to the post on our LJ community (http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/131786.html). * Silmarillion*-based entries are also welcome on the archive. Banners and icons for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php And past prompts and links to responses, here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php (Remember, it's never to late to write for a prompt!) And project guidelines are right up front on our homepage! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index.php May the muses smile upon you! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325574d7a5e329504641abbb6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today is Mercurial Monday! Because Monday is usually the worst day of the w= eek, we've chosen this day to make life a little easier for our B2MeM p= articipants. Each Monday, we will offer two prompts that are somewha= t opposites. Choose whichever you'd like. If you write for both, the se= cond entry can be used in place of any day's prompt during the m= onth.

Today's prompts are:

1. Think of the most dangerou= s situation you can face. Have you ever been in such serious danger? What i= s the greatest danger that you have experienced? Think or write briefly abo= ut your experiences (or lack of experiences!) with danger.

Write a s= tory, poem or create an artwork where the characters face a great dangeror
where characters reflect on their reaction to a great danger.
And, inspired by the group discussion on whether the Elves in Aman have se= rvants ...

2. What is the most tedious, routine work that you have = to do? Write down a few tedious or routine tasks that you're sometimes = required to perform. How does doing routine work make you feel? Would you l= ike to have somebody do it for you?

Now write a story, poem or creat= e an artwork where characters have to deal with tedious jobs.

--
=
Remember that any Tolkien-based writing is welcome for B2MeM. Fe= el free to share all of your entries here or in comments to the post on our= LJ community (http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/131786.html). Silmarillion-based entries are also welcome on the archive.
=
Banners and icons for participants can be found here:
http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

And past prompts= and links to responses, here:
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009= .php
(Remember, it's never to late to write for a prompt!)
And project guidelines are right up front on our homepage!
http://www.silmarillion= writersguild.org/index.php

May the muses smile upon you!

= Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--000325574d7a5e329504641abbb6-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2505 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31945 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2009 22:24:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2009 22:24:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.155) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2009 22:24:39 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 3so1316317yxi.52 for ; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:24:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.13.136 with SMTP id c8mr3391081iba.45.1236032678713; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:24:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:24:38 -0500 Message-ID: To: Henneth Annun , SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325575616bed9b904642a48e0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM Responses: Days 1 and 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=gfhf7U-WZmuT-2coUGKALCYTxYoyhflRL0Wxni924TZc3Lt2owhf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325575616bed9b904642a48e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For my B2MeM project, I am doing short scenes and character studies from the life of young Pengolodh. Pengolodh was one of Turgon's lords in Gondolin and also the historian who put together most of the stories in *The Silmarillion.* I find him a fascinating character--able to be sensed behind the stories but never present in them himself--and have finally given in to his gentle pleadings to write more about him! :) Day One: "Learning to Make a Fire" On SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=460&chapter=1 On my website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch1.php Day Two: "On the Rocks" On SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=460&chapter=2 On my website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch2.php Both vignettes are safe for general audiences, and I have no warnings to append to either one. As always, comments--both positive and negative--are welcomed! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325575616bed9b904642a48e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For my B2MeM project, I am doing short scenes and character studies from th= e life of young Pengolodh. Pengolodh was one of Turgon's lords in Gondo= lin and also the historian who put together most of the stories in The S= ilmarillion. I find him a fascinating character--able to be sensed behi= nd the stories but never present in them himself--and have finally given in= to his gentle pleadings to write more about him! :)

Day One: "= ;Learning to Make a Fire"
On SWG: htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D460&a= mp;chapter=3D1
On my website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illumi= nations/ch1.php

Day Two: "On the Rocks"
On SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/= home/viewstory.php?sid=3D460&chapter=3D2
On my website: http://www.t= hemidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch2.php

Both vignettes are= safe for general audiences, and I have no warnings to append to either one= .

As always, comments--both positive and negative--are welcomed!
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= /a>
http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org

--000325575616bed9b904642a48e0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2506 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98870 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2009 01:28:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2009 01:28:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.28) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2009 01:28:16 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so1454130yxm.81 for ; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:28:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.17.11 with SMTP id q11mr3490361iba.8.1236043695637; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:28:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:28:15 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032557497e67c76704642cd936 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Three X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=VmFojqDPS3C-IeHl5lgt-KEaK93suznVe6fhWd2q3_PNKGntdjwk X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00032557497e67c76704642cd936 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *Day Three's Prompt:* In two or three sentences, write about the happiest moment you've experienced in the past two days. Create a story, poem, or artwork based on the circumstances, experiences, or feelings associated with that moment. --- Remember that, although this idea originated with the Silmarillion Writers' Guild, *all* Tolkien-based writing and artwork is welcome! Past days' prompts as well as links to responses to prompts can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php And banners and icons for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php If you'd like me to include your response in the list of each day's links, simply post your response or a link to it in the comments to our LJ community (http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/132004.html), or email me with a link to your work. I've loved seeing what everyone's come up with so far! :) Happy writing, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00032557497e67c76704642cd936 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Day Three's Prompt:

In two or three sentences, write abou= t the happiest moment you've experienced in the past two days.

C= reate a story, poem, or artwork based on the circumstances, experiences, or= feelings associated with that moment.

---

Remember that, al= though this idea originated with the Silmarillion Writers' Guild, al= l Tolkien-based writing and artwork is welcome!

Past days' p= rompts as well as links to responses to prompts can be found here:

= http://ww= w.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php

And banners and ico= ns for participants can be found here:

http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

If you'd like me to include= your response in the list of each day's links, simply post your respon= se or a link to it in the comments to our LJ community (http://community.live= journal.com/silwritersguild/132004.html), or email me with a link to yo= ur work.

I've loved seeing what everyone's come up with so = far! :) Happy writing,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Daw= n Felagund
http:= //themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00032557497e67c76704642cd936-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2507 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49243 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2009 02:21:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2009 02:21:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.30) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2009 02:21:53 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so1629095ywe.23 for ; Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:21:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.32.70 with SMTP id b6mr3817069ibd.52.1236133312579; Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:21:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:21:52 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215048d6ffdc852046441b693 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Four X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Js4_YBRefe7Pk5ww8vszaMfYBsSVCRwrmfXW6mRKKdwOwpm-gVGR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --002215048d6ffdc852046441b693 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is a role model for you? Do role models require certain qualities for you? How should people relate to their role models? Write a story, poem or create an artwork based on characters who are role models for their people. --- Some things to remember ... Despite the fact that this year's B2MeM is a creation of the Silmarillion Writers' Guild, then *all* Tolkien-inspired responses are welcome! You have as long as you'd like to write for prompts (though, remember, if you are going for the marathon award of writing all thirty-one, they must be finished by mid-April). You can find previous days' prompts here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php Links to the responses written so far can be found here as well. If you are looking for something good to read, I highly recommend them! If you want your work linked here, either post your work or a link to it in the day's LJ entry, or email me with a link. (Today's LJ entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/132207.html) Oshun and Rhapsody have generously donated their time and talents to assuring that we have an icon for each day, as well as general participation banners. You can find them here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php Have fun and happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --002215048d6ffdc852046441b693 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is a role model for you? Do role models require certain qualities for = you? How should people relate to their role models?

Write a story,= poem or create an artwork based on characters who are role models for thei= r people.

---

Some things to remember ...

Despite the = fact that this year's B2MeM is a creation of the Silmarillion Writers&#= 39; Guild, then all Tolkien-inspired responses are welcome!

= You have as long as you'd like to write for prompts (though, remember, = if you are going for the marathon award of writing all thirty-one, they mus= t be finished by mid-April). You can find previous days' prompts here: = http://ww= w.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php

Links to the respo= nses written so far can be found here as well. If you are looking for somet= hing good to read, I highly recommend them! If you want your work linked he= re, either post your work or a link to it in the day's LJ entry, or ema= il me with a link.

(Today's LJ entry is here: http://community.li= vejournal.com/silwritersguild/132207.html)

Oshun and Rhapsody ha= ve generously donated their time and talents to assuring that we have an ic= on for each day, as well as general participation banners. You can find the= m here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php
Have fun and happy writing! :)

Dawn

-- ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g
--002215048d6ffdc852046441b693-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2508 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56040 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2009 01:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2009 01:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.153) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2009 01:39:06 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so2118243ywr.68 for ; Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:39:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.18.130 with SMTP id w2mr188122iba.11.1236217145345; Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:39:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:39:05 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221504700fd0471c0464553b02 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Five X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=q_KNWFaZaQO0ZrQD_zmk7VhYySAkYEQ7eKdROVlKCmdnibjxvQ8t X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221504700fd0471c0464553b02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit B2MeM09: Day Five ... Consider something that you regret: something that you did and wish you could undo, something you didn't do and wish that you had. Think or write briefly about what you would do if you had a second chance and how you think your life might be different without that regret. If your character would have a chance to start anew and with a clean slate, what would he or she do with such a chance? Write a story, poem or create an artwork where this is offered to them or how they execute such a chance. --- I am the lucky person "stuck" with compiling each day's entries into the list on our website. This means that I get to look at and read all of the entries, and I will attest that some *amazing* work has been done so far. When I sit down at my computer, tired and without inspiration, and finish up excited and eager to put my pen to paper (pixels?), that is a testament to the talents and creativity of people's B2MeM works this year. Do check them out! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php This is also the place to go for previous days' prompts. Remember, there is no deadline for writing for the prompts! If it's banners or icons that you want, they are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php And the rules of the game are pretty simple, but if you want to see the official version, just check our homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org Best regards and happy writing! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221504700fd0471c0464553b02 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable B2MeM09: Day Five ...

Consider something that you regret: something = that you did and wish you could undo, something you didn't do and wish = that you had. Think or write briefly about what you would do if you had a s= econd chance and how you think your life might be different without that re= gret.

If your character would have a chance to start anew and with= a clean slate, what would he or she do with such a chance? Write a story, = poem or create an artwork where this is offered to them or how they execute= such a chance.

---

I am the lucky person "stuck" w= ith compiling each day's entries into the list on our website. This mea= ns that I get to look at and read all of the entries, and I will attest tha= t some amazing work has been done so far. When I sit down at my comp= uter, tired and without inspiration, and finish up excited and eager to put= my pen to paper (pixels?), that is a testament to the talents and creativi= ty of people's B2MeM works this year. Do check them out!

http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php

This is also the place to= go for previous days' prompts. Remember, there is no deadline for writ= ing for the prompts!

If it's banners or icons that you want, th= ey are here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banner= s.php

And the rules of the game are pretty simple, but if you wa= nt to see the official version, just check our homepage:

http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org

Best regards and happy writing!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
<= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org">http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org
--00221504700fd0471c0464553b02-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2509 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47578 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2009 01:08:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by 98.137.34.37 with QMQP; 6 Mar 2009 01:08:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.154) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2009 01:08:28 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 34so145510yxf.66 for ; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:08:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.151.51.13 with SMTP id d13mr3265558ybk.120.1236301707754; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:08:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 19:08:27 -0600 Message-ID: <511ea890903051708r6ad254cnfaf3b9e12bafcd5@mail.gmail.com> To: erestor_lovers , SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, littlebalrog Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: B2MEM-01-Learning to Make a Fire X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=lkN4IQXROI1hrnIcvoOqBLaDSa5mIQRFI4V4X-G8D8KstW1JQFs X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex FIC: B2MEM-01-Learning to Make a Fire Title: Learning to Make a Fire Autho= r: Zhie Rating: G Characters: Feanor, Erestor Summary: Response to B2MEM Pr= ompt #1 =96 =93We are learning to make a fire,=94 =96Margaret Atwood. =93= Come. I want to show you something.=94 Erestor gave his friend the sterne= st look he could muster, and yawned. =93Telperion is fully awake =96 the t= ime I most like to be asleep,=94 he answered in a warning voice. Feanor cr= ossed his arms over his chest and huffed. =93Are you coming or not?=94 A = short staring match ensued, until Erestor shook his head and replied, =93Fi= ne. This had better be good.=94 The pair walked in comfortable silence fr= om the cottage that Erestor lived in, through the fields he tended, and bes= ide a narrow river that flowed near to the woods. They arrived at Feanor= =92s estate, but Erestor was led beyond it, through a gated fence and to th= e forge where a faint wisp of smoke thinly escaped through the apex. Feano= r entered with all the giddiness of a schoolboy; Erestor rubbed the sleep f= rom his eyes again and blinked to focus on the newest toy his friend had cr= eated. After a few moments, he scratched his left temple with the opposite= hand. =93Ornate fireplace poker?=94 =93No. Seriously =96 how is it you = are a scholar?=94 Feanor missed the roll of Erestor=92s eyes as he held up= his latest creation. =93This is a sword.=94 =93Oh. Oh! Such as Masters= Tulkas and Orome have,=94 realized Erestor. =93Smaller, of course.=94 =93= Not that much smaller,=94 corrected Feanor hastily. Erestor shrugged. =93= What?=94 =93Well, no offense, but I hardly see the need for it. Looks nic= e though. Decorative. Do you think your wife will let you hang it on the = wall in the sitting room?=94 wondered Erestor. =93This shall hang on no wa= ll,=94 proclaimed Feanor. =93It shall hang from my belt!=94 Erestor sat d= own on one of the worn wooden benches, still not sure that this merited his= being woken up for. =93Why?=94 =93Why?=94 Feanor hushed his voice. =93= Is it not obvious? If the Valar were ever to wish to put us in our place, = we would lose. Do you know why?=94 =93Because they are more powerful?=94 = =93Yes... and why are they more powerful?=94 =93...because they just are?= =94 Feanor lowered the sword and rested it in his hands. =93Because they = have these. But there are more of us than there are of them, and if it cam= e to it, we should be prepared.=94 =93Oh. For defense, then?=94 Erestor a= sked. =93Of course,=94 answered Feanor. =93That seems reasonable. Looks = like it should be easy =96 I mean, what is it? Just a pointy piece of meta= l. You should be able to cut those out easily enough.=94 Feanor chuckled.= =93Easy? No, not as easy as you think, at least not for most. It is not= the metal or the bearer that make the blade strong, but the fire within = =96 but if anyone knows about that, it is I.=94 -end- -- Tales from Vali= nor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're always= after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2510 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19717 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2009 01:45:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2009 01:45:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f178.google.com) (209.85.217.178) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2009 01:45:10 -0000 X-Received: by gxk26 with SMTP id 26so494308gxk.21 for ; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:45:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.150.205.20 with SMTP id c20mr3369023ybg.133.1236303909763; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:45:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 19:45:09 -0600 Message-ID: <511ea890903051745x1dd1a2c8v5f0d771a4acf5aaf@mail.gmail.com> To: littlebalrog , SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, glorfindel_of_imladris@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: B2MEM-02-Life or Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=lC8bgjkq1Kgt2BBJM24JGw6CD201jmA0XPIxl9jPxDV64leHcUE X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex FIC: B2MEM-02-Life or Death Title: Life or Death Author: Zhie Rating: PG C= haracters: Legolas, Glorfindel Summary: Response to B2MEM Prompt #2 =96 Dan= gerous Situation =93I ran away.=94 The face of the confessor showed rel= ief at this admission, though the fear in his eyes did not diminish. =93Yo= u did what just about anyone would do, given your situation.=94 Legolas fr= owned deeply, obviously remorseful for his action. =93I was sent to protec= t the ring-bearer.=94 =93Frodo looks fine to me. Missing a finger, sure, = but I knew an elf who was missing a hand and got along just fine without it= .=94 =93That is not funny,=94 Legolas practically scolded before biting hi= s lip. =93It was not meant to be. Maedhros really did adjust well; better= than I would have.=94 =93Maedhros did not run away from a balrog.=94 =93= You think that, do you?=94 Glorfindel leaned back in his chair so that he = could put his feet up. The reception in Gondor had ended long ago, but man= y of the Elves had yet to leave the hall, save for Aragorn=92s bride, her f= ather, and her brothers. The rest stayed=97 relaxing, chatting, and in the= cases of some of the Sindarin Elves, making sure there was no need to take= any of the wine bottles back to the cellar the next morning. Legolas had = sought out a fellow warrior, and found a friend in Glorfindel. =93Maedhros= had a good number of flaws; running from a balrog was one of them.=94 =93= How do you know that?=94 questioned Legolas. =93I was at the Battle of Unn= umbered Tears; I saw some things others did not. I saw things you never re= ad about in books. They say the Feanorians were held back by traitorous me= n.=94 =93But they were,=94 Legolas argued. =93Some of them were; some of = them could have fought their way forward. Not everything was planned all th= at well for that battle. However, Maedhros did indeed have a chance to com= e further into the fray. He had a choice =96 stay where he was, or move wi= th a small group through a break in the fighting.=94 =93He chose the forme= r,=94 guessed Legolas. =93Indeed he did. And King Fingon was cut down by = two balrogs. He might have had a better chance with Maedhros fighting with= him.=94 =93So, Maedhros was a coward like me,=94 said Legolas as he bowed= his head. =93No. Not really. Any number of things could have happened. = He chose a strategy that allowed him to help reinforce the soldiers of his= brothers=92 armies. Any number of obstacles could have come in his way be= fore he reached Fingon,=94 reasoned Glorfindel. =93Besides, he, like, you,= followed orders. Fingon ordered him to hold the position; he did. Gandal= f ordered you to run away; you did.=94 Legolas still did not look convince= d. =93What would you have done if you were there?=94 =93If I was there? = Hmm...=94 Glorfindel pondered this. =93If I was there, the command would = have been the same, but it would not have been Gandalf who would have issue= d it.=94 =93Even knowing how dangerous balrogs are, you would have fought = it?=94 questioned Legolas. =93Yes.=94 Legolas looked more confused. =93D= o you not fear them?=94 =93It is not that I do not fear them,=94 said Glor= findel carefully. =93It is that I do not fear them anymore. I feared them= , because they are death bringers. But now, I no longer fear them, for I n= o longer fear death.=94 =93And that is why the Nazgul flee from you as wel= l,=94 Legolas mused. =93They are death, and since you do not fear them=97= =93 =93Nay, nay, Legolas,=94 corrected Glorfindel. =93It is not because t= hey are death, but because I am death. I am the danger to them, not the ot= her way around. No, I do not fear them, but they fear me.=94 Legolas was = quiet and thoughtful for some time before he spoke again. =93I am in awe of= you,=94 he admitted. Glorfindel smiled ruefully and leaned forward so tha= t he could speak very quietly to his friend. =93Be in awe, but do not be w= istful =96 for had I the chance to relive my former life, I wish I could tr= y to run away from that beast. I would rather that I still feared death, t= han have missed the years of living that I did.=94 -end- -- Tales from V= alinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're alw= ays after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2511 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32345 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2009 04:04:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2009 04:04:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.251) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2009 04:04:36 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b6so168621ana.40 for ; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 20:04:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.32.70 with SMTP id b6mr566638ibd.52.1236312276034; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 20:04:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:04:35 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215048d6f0b6c5604646b6273 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Six X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=qm3to6efg9GbS1Y45Ilh3NqUcMcYFdzzOXR7MmGq8iRXqaVOmGGh X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --002215048d6f0b6c5604646b6273 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Back to Middle-earth Month, Day Six ... "Music can name the unnamable and communicate the unknowable." -Leonard Bernstein, American composer Write a story, poem or create an artwork where this quote is validated. --- My husband and I decided to clean our dirty house tonight before we have overnight guests this weekend, so I didn't get to compile what was written today. I will get the website updated tomorrow! :) In the meantime, the first four days' writings can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php And if you'd like banners and icons, check here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php May the muses smile upon you! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --002215048d6f0b6c5604646b6273 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Back to Middle-earth Month, Day Six ...

"Music can name the unn= amable and communicate the unknowable."
-Leonard Bernstein, Americ= an composer

Write a story, poem or create an artwork where this qu= ote is validated.

---

My husband and I decided to clean = our dirty house tonight before we have overnight guests this weekend, so I = didn't get to compile what was written today. I will get the website up= dated tomorrow! :) In the meantime, the first four days' writings can b= e found here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php
<= br>And if you'd like banners and icons, check here:

http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

May the muses = smile upon you! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fe= lagund
http://th= emidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--002215048d6f0b6c5604646b6273-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2512 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84987 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2009 16:50:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by 98.137.34.37 with QMQP; 6 Mar 2009 16:50:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f159.google.com) (209.85.217.159) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2009 16:50:56 -0000 X-Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3so964162gxk.7 for ; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:50:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.20.5 with SMTP id d5mr746496ibb.14.1236358256179; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:50:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <511ea890903051708r6ad254cnfaf3b9e12bafcd5@mail.gmail.com> References: <511ea890903051708r6ad254cnfaf3b9e12bafcd5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:50:56 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325575a36acbb930464761653 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] FIC: B2MEM-01-Learning to Make a Fire X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hPVUAAVUKm9rNiU2glJDMsKMHRhhPa_jMnqBkjKlqogMXfIVpv94 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325575a36acbb930464761653 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zhie, I snickered at Feanor's assertion that, no, *of course* his sword is not *that* much smaller than that of a Vala! :D I liked this--the subtle humor belying what a serious change has just occurred. (Also, on a personal note, I am very fond of the Erestor-knew-Feanor-way-back-when idea. :) (And, on a second personal note, I have always believed that Feanor developed swords independent of Melkor too!) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325575a36acbb930464761653 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Zhie, I snickered at Feanor's assertion that, no, of course his sword is not that much smaller than that of a Vala! :D I li= ked this--the subtle humor belying what a serious change has just occurred.=
=C2=A0
(Also, on a personal note, I am very fond of= the Erestor-knew-Feanor-way-back-when idea. :)
=C2=A0
(And, on a second personal note, I have always believed that Feanor devel= oped swords independent of Melkor too!)
=C2=A0
--000325575a36acbb930464761653-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2513 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14236 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2009 17:00:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2009 17:00:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f176.google.com) (209.85.217.176) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2009 17:00:51 -0000 X-Received: by gxk24 with SMTP id 24so1144777gxk.19 for ; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:00:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.20.1 with SMTP id d1mr751100ibb.17.1236358850899; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:00:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <511ea890903051745x1dd1a2c8v5f0d771a4acf5aaf@mail.gmail.com> References: <511ea890903051745x1dd1a2c8v5f0d771a4acf5aaf@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 12:00:50 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255747061f70d70464763a99 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] FIC: B2MEM-02-Life or Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ALgWY00v5td4O6UXYxmJvXRqrERi2_rsK0GmXG2nBb9QImkHt72V X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0003255747061f70d70464763a99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, this has so many intriguing bits that I scarcely know where to begin. :) This, of course, made me squee: "I saw things you never read about in books." Because I, too, like to write about those things we never get to read about in the books. :) And the discussion of the complexity of Maedhros's choice (and that of Legolas as well) was great. It defies easy categorization as "good choice" or "bad choice" but, rather, reveals the complexity of the situation for what it must have been. Had Maedhros gone forth against Fingon's orders, he perhaps would have been "rash" like his father. Or he would have been accused of deserting his brothers (as fanon often accuses his brothers of deserting him on Thangorodrim). As it was, his choice resulted in the death of his dear friend and the High King. But was it the wrong one? And Glorfindel's insight at the end is heartbreaking, a sudden return of the humanity of a character whose deeds as described make him larger than life. Excellent work! :) Dawn PS--Are your stories you've posted here up on any sites yet? If you want me to add them to the list of B2MeM stories on the SWG site, please just let me know where I can find them. :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0003255747061f70d70464763a99 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Okay, this has so many intriguing bits that I scarcely know where to b= egin. :)
=C2=A0
This, of course, made me squee: "= ;I saw things you never read about in books." Because I, too, like to = write about those things we never get to read about in the books. :)
=
=C2=A0
And the discussion of the complexity of Maedhros'= ;s choice (and that of Legolas as well) was great. It defies easy categoriz= ation as "good choice" or "bad choice" but, rather, rev= eals the complexity of the situation for what it must have been. Had Maedhr= os gone forth against Fingon's orders, he perhaps would have been "= ;rash" like his father. Or he would have been accused of deserting his= brothers (as fanon often accuses his brothers of deserting him on Thangoro= drim). As it was, his choice resulted in the death of his dear friend and t= he High King. But was it the wrong one?
=C2=A0
And G= lorfindel's insight at the end is heartbreaking, a sudden return of the= humanity of a character whose deeds as described make him larger than life= .
=C2=A0
Excellent work! :)
=C2=A0
<= div>Dawn
=C2=A0
PS--Are your stories you've poste= d here up on any sites yet? If you want me to add them to the list of B2MeM= stories on the SWG site, please just let me know where I can find them. :)=
--0003255747061f70d70464763a99-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2514 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75632 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2009 04:25:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by 98.137.34.37 with QMQP; 7 Mar 2009 04:25:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.182) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2009 04:25:50 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id s27so561532ele.3 for ; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:25:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.30.67 with SMTP id t3mr921066ibc.21.1236399950649; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:25:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:25:50 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255760b2dbd91d04647fcb8f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Seven X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=nNuoXFICZNh1gQ_XnxgAamBmXArfuIa8NVpcxAtW4z6aqMRAnjU8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0003255760b2dbd91d04647fcb8f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Imagine this! You are walking in the woods and sudden a tree whispers to you ... What does it say? What is your reaction? Capture this moment in a story, poem or piece of art. --- As of almost-midnight EST, I have updated the website with all of the links to B2MeM responses that I have so far. These--as well as old prompts--can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php Do check them out, if you have the chance. There has been some amazing work created so far that spans the whole Legendarium. If you want banners and icons, you can find them here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php And finally, if you would like me to link to your work on the website, please post your links (or the whole entry) to our LJ community, or email me privately. Today's LJ entry can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/132926.html Thank you to everyone who has participated so far. This first week has been most enjoyable and inspiring! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0003255760b2dbd91d04647fcb8f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Imagine this! You are walking in the woods and sudden a tree whispers to yo= u ...

What does it say? What is your reaction?
Capture this moment in a story, poem or piece of art.

---=

As of almost-midnight EST, I have updated the website with all of t= he links to B2MeM responses that I have so far. These--as well as old promp= ts--can be found here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php<= /a>

Do check them out, if you have the chance. There has been some = amazing work created so far that spans the whole Legendarium.

If you= want banners and icons, you can find them here:

http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

And finally, if you w= ould like me to link to your work on the website, please post your links (o= r the whole entry) to our LJ community, or email me privately. Today's = LJ entry can be found here:

http://community.livejournal.com/silwriter= sguild/132926.html

Thank you to everyone who has participated s= o far. This first week has been most enjoyable and inspiring!

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaste= r/
http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org
--0003255760b2dbd91d04647fcb8f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2515 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81003 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2009 00:44:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2009 00:44:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f166.google.com) (209.85.217.166) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2009 00:44:38 -0000 X-Received: by gxk10 with SMTP id 10so1666092gxk.12 for ; Sat, 07 Mar 2009 16:44:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.19.204 with SMTP id c12mr1102675ibb.39.1236473077709; Sat, 07 Mar 2009 16:44:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 19:44:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532cf6c923a8a046490d2f2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Eight X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=t4W6hf44JyFIhk3WgSxfEIpCntriiESymjnsNydL1eMwSJEY9jRa X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532cf6c923a8a046490d2f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Is it? And ugliness? Is it also relative? Write a story, poem or create an artwork where the contrast beauty/ugliness plays a central role. --- Past prompts as well as the responses written so far for them are on our homepage here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php If it is banners and icons that you seek, you will find them here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php (And, again, I have to thank Oshun and Rhapsody for putting these together for us!) Wondering what is B2MeM? How do you play along? Find the project description and guidelines (pretty straightforward) on our homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532cf6c923a8a046490d2f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Is it? And ugliness? Is it also relat= ive?

Write a story, poem or create an artwork where the co= ntrast beauty/ugliness plays a central role.

---

Past prompts= as well as the responses written so far for them are on our homepage here:=

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php<= br>
If it is banners and icons that you seek, you will find them here:=

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/= banners.php

(And, again, I have to thank Oshun and Rhapsody fo= r putting these together for us!)

Wondering what is B2MeM? How do yo= u play along? Find the project description and guidelines (pretty straightf= orward) on our homepage:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
Happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Daw= n Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org
--00221532cf6c923a8a046490d2f2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2516 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23822 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2009 00:46:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2009 00:46:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f176.google.com) (209.85.217.176) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2009 00:46:25 -0000 X-Received: by gxk24 with SMTP id 24so2839114gxk.19 for ; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 17:46:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.16.129 with SMTP id o1mr1308252iba.9.1236559585545; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 17:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 19:46:25 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022152d7ddfd710050464a4f643 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09:: Day Nine: Mercurial Monday! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=oFVhwsHYPW06oXH8Nvub6oMC0FVkP4r0xAYPSm7zwEK--Cnmpz0m X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0022152d7ddfd710050464a4f643 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mondays are Mercurial Mondays, when we offer the choice of two prompts. Write for the one that tickles your muses the most or--if you're going for all thirty-one prompts--write for them both and skip any other day during the month! Today's prompts are: 1. Think of a person that you admire. The person can be someone from history, from fiction, or someone that you know--anyone! Write down three to five adjectives that describe why you find that person admirable. Now write the opposites of those three to five adjectives. Write or draw something from the point-of-view of a character who displays some or all of the "negative" adjectives on your second list. *or* 2. In your opinion, what are the qualities that a hero must possess? Write down at least three of these qualities. Now write a story, poem or create an artwork that shows those qualities in action. --- We have banners and icons for B2MeM09 participants. You can find them here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php If it is past prompts ye seek, or if you'd like to see the list of the more than seventy (yes, *70*!!) responses created so far, you can find them here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php Remember, if you'd like me to add a link to your work to the website, either post it as a comment on the SWG LiveJournal or email me privately at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. (Today's LJ entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/133980.html.) Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0022152d7ddfd710050464a4f643 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mondays are Mercurial Mondays, when we offer the choice of two prompts. Wri= te for the one that tickles your muses the most or--if you're going for= all thirty-one prompts--write for them both and skip any other day during = the month!

Today's prompts are:

1. Think of a person tha= t you admire. The person can be someone from history, from fiction, or some= one that you know--anyone!

Write down three to five adject= ives that describe why you find that person admirable.

Now= write the opposites of those three to five adjectives.

Write = or draw something from the point-of-view of a character who displays some o= r all of the "negative" adjectives on your second list.

*o= r*

2. In your opinion, what are the qualities that a hero must posse= ss? Write down at least three of these qualities.

Now writ= e a story, poem or create an artwork that shows those qualities in action.<= br>
---

We have banners and icons for B2MeM09 participants. You c= an find them here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/= banners.php

If it is past prompts ye seek, or if you'd like= to see the list of the more than seventy (yes, 70!!) responses crea= ted so far, you can find them here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b= 2mem2009.php

Remember, if you'd like me to add a link to yo= ur work to the website, either post it as a comment on the SWG LiveJournal = or email me privately at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. (Today's LJ ent= ry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/133980.html.= )

Happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
= --0022152d7ddfd710050464a4f643-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2517 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35813 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2009 01:27:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2009 01:27:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO el-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.162.176) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2009 01:27:40 -0000 X-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id o28so1120354ele.7 for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:27:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.20.65 with SMTP id e1mr1595025ibb.1.1236648459702; Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:27:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255747462710840464b9a84d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Ten X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=guKUcdE5mqEL-qSc5x2vqpKu0lhMJ83VNmQ6td_hRtnuLHdJNVl_ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0003255747462710840464b9a84d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Traveling is a fool's paradise. We owe to our first journeys the discovery that place is nothing." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Write a story, poem or create an artwork that proves or disproves this quote. --- I just spent about an hour adding more than 20 new entries to the site. I can't emphasize enough how amazing the work done so far has been, really a treat to admire and read. :) The entries so far (as well as past prompts which *hint hint* never go stale ;) can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php Oshun and Rhapsody have made lovely banners and icons for each day's prompt. Those are available for all participants here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php May the muses smile upon you! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0003255747462710840464b9a84d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Traveling is a fool's paradise. We owe to our first journeys the = discovery that place is nothing."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

= Write a story, poem or create an artwork that proves or disproves this= quote.

---

I just spent about an hour adding more than 20 ne= w entries to the site. I can't emphasize enough how amazing the work do= ne so far has been, really a treat to admire and read. :)

The entri= es so far (as well as past prompts which *hint hint* never go stale ;) can = be found here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php
=
Oshun and Rhapsody have made lovely banners and icons for each day'= s prompt. Those are available for all participants here:

http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

May the muses= smile upon you!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fela= gund
http://them= idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0003255747462710840464b9a84d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2518 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86662 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2009 01:00:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2009 01:00:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f171.google.com) (209.85.217.171) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2009 01:00:05 -0000 X-Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19so3780911gxk.3 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:00:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.16.129 with SMTP id o1mr1862036iba.47.1236733205242; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:00:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022152d7ddf6163fe0464cd63c9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Eleven X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=V-vXlQF-fPTAHal_dktcufCzzZfod-8neqUxdAsov5LerpuqZ0Yr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0022152d7ddf6163fe0464cd63c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How do you define your sense of humor? Is your sense of humor something can be universally appreciated? Think or write briefly about a time when your attempt at humor was misunderstood, or when you misunderstood another person's attempt at humor. Write a story, poem or create an artwork that shows different views of humor. --- We now have more than 100 B2MeM entries linked on our website. Go check them out; you'll be glad you did! :) http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php And if you'd like banners and icons to commemorate your efforts, please check here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php Finally, if you're just checking in and wondering what the heck is that alphabet soup "B2MeM," our homepage has all the answers and then some: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org Happy writing! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0022152d7ddf6163fe0464cd63c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How do you define your sense of humor? Is your sense of humor something can= be universally appreciated? Think or write briefly about a time when your = attempt at humor was misunderstood, or when you misunderstood another perso= n's attempt at humor.

Write a story, poem or create an art= work that shows different views of humor.

---

We now have mor= e than 100 B2MeM entries linked on our website. Go check them out; you'= ll be glad you did! :)

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php=

And if you'd like banners and icons to commemorate your eff= orts, please check here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2m= em2009/banners.php

Finally, if you're just checking in and w= ondering what the heck is that alphabet soup "B2MeM," our homepag= e has all the answers and then some:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

Ha= ppy writing!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund=
http://themidha= vens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0022152d7ddf6163fe0464cd63c9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2519 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5481 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2009 02:13:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2009 02:13:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.31) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2009 02:13:29 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 5so470262ywb.67 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:13:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.20.5 with SMTP id d5mr2153529ibb.54.1236824008726; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:13:28 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325575a36b09b710464e287ef X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Twelve X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-6kM61HzHx2HwD4QqwB6Q96gQnf7QVvI5BnpGBKmAIN5ymGNPmDe X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325575a36b09b710464e287ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How would you define innocence? Write down at least three words or phrases that represent innocence for you. Write a story, poem or create an artwork where one observes or realises the innocence of herself or himself, someone else, or a group. --- All of the entries I've received so far can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php And banners and icons for participants are located here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php Thank you to everyone who has participated so far; I have so enjoyed what everyone has come up with! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325575a36b09b710464e287ef Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How would you define innocence? Write down at least three words or phrases = that represent innocence for you.

Write a story, poem or creat= e an artwork where one observes or realises the innocence of herself or him= self, someone else, or a group.

---

All of the entries I'= ;ve received so far can be found here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g/b2mem2009.php

And banners and icons for participants are locat= ed here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.p= hp

Thank you to everyone who has participated so far; I have so = enjoyed what everyone has come up with! :)

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--000325575a36b09b710464e287ef-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2520 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98033 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2009 23:56:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by 98.137.34.37 with QMQP; 12 Mar 2009 23:56:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.251) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2009 23:56:36 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b6so862096ana.37 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:56:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.18.130 with SMTP id w2mr120491iba.11.1236902194832; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:56:34 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221504700ff1e7040464f4bbcf X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09 Days 4 and 5 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=HfCrd0kj0tBHq0f-n45rZ4JsyTAImQnFRiiz-yFLb4QTExxBz7RM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221504700ff1e7040464f4bbcf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I grabbed a spare moment this afternoon, tied it up, and wouldn't let it get away until it let me work on my own Back to Middle-earth Month projects. :) My entries for Days 4 and 5 are finished and online. For my project this year, I am working on a character study of Pengolodh, one of the fictional loremasters who was primarily responsible for *The Silmarillion.* Day 4 (Role Models) is probably the weirdest fanwork that I've done yet. I am a student of medieval-era scribal arts, and since I am writing about one of Middle-earth's historians, I like to think that he was also trained as a scribe. For Day 4, Pengolodh started to put together an illuminated page of an epic poem about his father crossing the Helcaraxe. Only, a few lines into the poem, he realized that something was wrong ... I've created an illuminated page (yes, with shiny! :) in which his poem about his role model turns into something very different. On SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=460&chapter=4 On my website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch4.php For Day 5 (Regrets), Pengolodh gets a bit of good news and celebrates in a not-so-acceptable way. On SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=460&chapter=5 On my website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch5.php The project in its entirety: On SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=460&index=1 On my website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations.php All entries so far are acceptable for all audiences and come with no particular warnings, save having way too much fun with obscure characters and gold leaf. :) Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221504700ff1e7040464f4bbcf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I grabbed a spare moment this afternoon, tied it up, and wouldn't let i= t get away until it let me work on my own Back to Middle-earth Month projec= ts. :) My entries for Days 4 and 5 are finished and online.

For my p= roject this year, I am working on a character study of Pengolodh, one of th= e fictional loremasters who was primarily responsible for The Silmarilli= on.

Day 4 (Role Models) is probably the weirdest fanwork that I= 've done yet. I am a student of medieval-era scribal arts, and since I = am writing about one of Middle-earth's historians, I like to think that= he was also trained as a scribe. For Day 4, Pengolodh started to put toget= her an illuminated page of an epic poem about his father crossing the Helca= raxe. Only, a few lines into the poem, he realized that something was wrong= ... I've created an illuminated page (yes, with shiny! :) in which his= poem about his role model turns into something very different.

On = SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/= archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D460&chapter=3D4
On my website: = http:= //www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch4.php

For Day 5 = (Regrets), Pengolodh gets a bit of good news and celebrates in a not-so-acc= eptable way.

On SWG: http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D460&chapter=3D5=
On my website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch5.ph= p

The project in its entirety:

On SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.ph= p?sid=3D460&index=3D1
On my website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library= /illuminations.php

All entries so far are acceptable for all aud= iences and come with no particular warnings, save having way too much fun w= ith obscure characters and gold leaf. :)

Best regards,

Dawn<= br clear=3D"all">
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremast= er/
http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org
--00221504700ff1e7040464f4bbcf-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2521 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40809 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2009 02:38:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2009 02:38:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.181) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2009 02:38:57 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j40so838318wah.30 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:38:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.174.2 with SMTP id w2mr489858wae.195.1236911936961; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:38:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364571b09efcf20464f700d6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09:: Day Thirteen: Friday the 13th! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=E7jU0tjcMHuDwxxULe0B3UuiZOaAd4ZGcYpqGsieJRiWXDeFQuQh X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364571b09efcf20464f700d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's Friday the 13th! Time to indulge all our superstitions and paranoia about walking under ladders, black cats, and the perils of spilling salt and *not* tossing a pinch over our shoulders! Here is today's spooky prompt: What makes you the most afraid? How would you react if you had to face this situation? Think or write briefly about your greatest fear and how you would face it. Now write a story, poem or create an artwork where the characters have to confront their greatest fears. --- As of 10:35 PM, EST, on 12 March, I have updated the links page on the website with all that I have. If I'm missing something or have made a mistake, please let me know; I will see that it gets fixed as soon as possible. The links to all the entries so far are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php Old prompts are here too. They're like candy corn! They never go stale! ;) Remember, if you want your entries linked on the website, either leave a link (or post the whole entry) in a comment on our LiveJournal, or email me at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. Today's LJ entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/134931.html Aaaand, last but not least, if you'd like to use the lovely banners and icons Oshun and Rhapsody have so kindly made for us, you can find them here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364571b09efcf20464f700d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's Friday the 13th! Time to indulge all our superstitions and paranoi= a about walking under ladders, black cats, and the perils of spilling salt = and not tossing a pinch over our shoulders! Here is today's spoo= ky prompt:

What makes you the most afraid? How would you react if y= ou had to face this situation? Think or write briefly about your greatest f= ear and how you would face it.

Now write a story, poem or crea= te an artwork where the characters have to confront their greatest fears.
---

As of 10:35 PM, EST, on 12 March, I have updated the links= page on the website with all that I have. If I'm missing something or = have made a mistake, please let me know; I will see that it gets fixed as s= oon as possible.

The links to all the entries so far are here:
<= br>http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php

Old prompts are = here too. They're like candy corn! They never go stale! ;)

Reme= mber, if you want your entries linked on the website, either leave a link (= or post the whole entry) in a comment on our LiveJournal, or email me at Da= wnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. Today's LJ entry is here:

http://co= mmunity.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/134931.html

Aaaand, last= but not least, if you'd like to use the lovely banners and icons Oshun= and Rhapsody have so kindly made for us, you can find them here:

<= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php">ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

Happ= y writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagun= d
http://themid= havens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364571b09efcf20464f700d6-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2522 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92997 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2009 04:17:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2009 04:17:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.30) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2009 04:17:52 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so1122967yxj.23 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:17:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.15.74 with SMTP id j10mr462851iba.48.1237004272261; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 00:17:52 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532cba03bdbab04650c8067 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Fourteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=loTPWlGfyIMAz5XROgSiuaoAEgCYXRCsUJ7Zco93WDEeyQm5kc1e X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532cba03bdbab04650c8067 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is your favourite season? Why? Create your own story, poem or piece of art which shows what you like the most about your favourite season and how your character would appreciate (or not) the same things. -- All of the responses completed so far* can be found here, as can old prompts: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php And banners and icons for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php If you'd like me to add your work to the list, either add it as a comment to the relevant entry on our LiveJournal, or drop me an email at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. My thanks to all who have contributed so far! Your work has been such a joy to read! Best regards, Dawn * Several new stories and links were posted to the LJ comm this evening, but I had an SCA meeting tonight and so didn't get them added to the list yet. Tomorrow, I promise! :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532cba03bdbab04650c8067 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is your favourite season? Why?

Create your own story, poem or p= iece of art which shows what you like the most about your favourite season = and how your character would appreciate (or not) the same things.

= --

All of the responses completed so far* can be found here, as can = old prompts:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2= 009.php

And banners and icons for participants can be found he= re:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem20= 09/banners.php

If you'd like me to add your work to the lis= t, either add it as a comment to the relevant entry on our LiveJournal, or = drop me an email at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com.

My thanks to all= who have contributed so far! Your work has been such a joy to read!
Best regards,

Dawn

* Several new stories and links were post= ed to the LJ comm this evening, but I had an SCA meeting tonight and so did= n't get them added to the list yet. Tomorrow, I promise! :)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_= loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00221532cba03bdbab04650c8067-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2523 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81344 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2009 01:23:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2009 01:23:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.28) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2009 01:23:47 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 5so503449ywh.59 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:23:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.12.12 with SMTP id v12mr622537ibv.4.1237080226765; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:23:46 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574d8e799dc204651e2f71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09:: Day Fifteen: The Ides of March X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YcT1RTRCrZtB_HakYlujV3LiuDnXrs8NtsOdp0WRPmzxvyon6fpB X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325574d8e799dc204651e2f71 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In T.S. Eliot's poem "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock," the speaker in the poem poses the following question: "Do I dare disturb the universe?" Over the course of the poem, the speaker answers this question. Show a scene or experience in a character's life where she or he answers this question. -- As of posting this, the website should be updated with all entries for which I have links. If you'd like your work added, just drop me a line or comment on the relevant entry on the SWG LiveJournal community. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php Icons and banners for participants are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325574d8e799dc204651e2f71 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In T.S. Eliot's poem "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock," t= he speaker in the poem poses the following question:

"= ;Do I dare disturb the universe?"

Over the course of the = poem, the speaker answers this question. Show a scene or experience in a ch= aracter's life where she or he answers this question.

--

= As of posting this, the website should be updated with all entries for whic= h I have links. If you'd like your work added, just drop me a line or c= omment on the relevant entry on the SWG LiveJournal community.

http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php

Icons and banners for p= articipants are here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem20= 09/banners.php

Happy writing! :)

Dawn
<= br>--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--000325574d8e799dc204651e2f71-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2524 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80946 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2009 03:12:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2009 03:12:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.28) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2009 03:12:56 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 5so1710984ywb.27 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:12:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.15.74 with SMTP id j10mr859821iba.10.1237173176610; Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:12:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532cba0b7b040046533d3ac X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09:: Day Sixteen: Mercurial Monday X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=viAOWR_UJOxTxh856SrJJjAnNIyNwBpJmvSo46ZgptJ7UzVjrcC8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532cba0b7b040046533d3ac Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For Mercurial Monday, we offer B2MeM participants the choice of two prompts. Participants may choose whichever they prefer. In addition, the second prompt may be used in place of any other prompt in the challenge! 1. Are you an adventurous person? Think or write briefly about the greatest adventure in your life. Write a story, poem or create an artwork where the characters share an unexpected adventure. 2. What are your limits? What some things that you can't do? Won't do? Write down at least two of each and consider how you discovered these limits. Write a story, poem or create an artwork where a character discovers his or her limits, manages to respect his or her limits, or is pushed over his or her limits. -- Today marks the halfway point of Back to Middle-earth Month. I was going to leave my acknowledgments till the end of the month, but I expect that by then a lot of us will be either reading the oodles of stories posted or sleeping off having written thirty-one of them, and I absolutely do not want the work of those who made this event possible to go unacknowledged. A lot of people have remarked to me that they like the prompts and have found them inspiring or intriguing or fun to write. Gratitude for the prompts goes to my co-moderators Rhapsody and Angelica, who created the vast majority of them. I still don't know how they found or dreamed up some of the stuff that they did, but I'm very thankful for their insightful, thought-provoking, and sometimes quirky imaginations! I had the wild idea, when first planning this project, that it would be really cool to have a different icon to go with each day's prompt. However, it was just that: a wild idea. We didn't have much time, and the amount of effort it would take to create thirty-one icons from scratch was more than I could spend. Oshun and Rhapsody are to thank for the gorgeous icons and banners that we have been able to offer participants. Thank you both for your effort and for sharing your talent with us! And thanks to all who have promoted B2MeM on their own groups and communities. I know the LotR Genfic Community is with us, with special thanks to Dreamflower for making that possible, and that Nath saw to getting announcements posted on HASA. I know that other groups and individuals have gotten the word out as well, and I thank you. You all are the reason that we have had such a massive and diverse response to this year's project so far. Finally, to everyone who is creating responses or who plans to create responses--thank you. This project has exceeded our wildest imaginings when we first started planning it in January, and the work I've seen so far has been nothing short of amazing. Here's to the second half of B2MeM being as much fun as the first! :) -- Finally, the daily reminders and such ... Entries and old prompts are being collected here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php If you'd like to see your work added to the list, please leave a comment on the relevant LJ entry or email me off-list (DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com). Today's LJ entry can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/135806.html Banners and icons are available for participants here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php And finally ... happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532cba0b7b040046533d3ac Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For Mercurial Monday, we offer B2MeM participants the choice of two prompts= . Participants may choose whichever they prefer. In addition, the second pr= ompt may be used in place of any other prompt in the challenge!

1. A= re you an adventurous person? Think or write briefly about the greatest adv= enture in your life.

Write a story, poem or create an artw= ork where the characters share an unexpected adventure.

2. What= are your limits? What some things that you can't do? Won't do? Wri= te down at least two of each and consider how you discovered these limits. =

Write a story, poem or create an artwork where a character discove= rs his or her limits, manages to respect his or her limits, or is pushed ov= er his or her limits.

--

Today marks the halfway point of Bac= k to Middle-earth Month. I was going to leave my acknowledgments till the e= nd of the month, but I expect that by then a lot of us will be either readi= ng the oodles of stories posted or sleeping off having written thirty-one o= f them, and I absolutely do not want the work of those who made this event = possible to go unacknowledged.

A lot of people have remarked to me t= hat they like the prompts and have found them inspiring or intriguing or fu= n to write. Gratitude for the prompts goes to my co-moderators Rhapsody and= Angelica, who created the vast majority of them. I still don't know ho= w they found or dreamed up some of the stuff that they did, but I'm ver= y thankful for their insightful, thought-provoking, and sometimes quirky im= aginations!

I had the wild idea, when first planning this project, t= hat it would be really cool to have a different icon to go with each day= 9;s prompt. However, it was just that: a wild idea. We didn't have much= time, and the amount of effort it would take to create thirty-one icons fr= om scratch was more than I could spend. Oshun and Rhapsody are to thank for= the gorgeous icons and banners that we have been able to offer participant= s. Thank you both for your effort and for sharing your talent with us!
<= br>And thanks to all who have promoted B2MeM on their own groups and commun= ities. I know the LotR Genfic Community is with us, with special thanks to = Dreamflower for making that possible, and that Nath saw to getting announce= ments posted on HASA. I know that other groups and individuals have gotten = the word out as well, and I thank you. You all are the reason that we have = had such a massive and diverse response to this year's project so far.<= br>
Finally, to everyone who is creating responses or who plans to creat= e responses--thank you. This project has exceeded our wildest imaginings wh= en we first started planning it in January, and the work I've seen so f= ar has been nothing short of amazing.

Here's to the second half = of B2MeM being as much fun as the first! :)

--

Finally, the d= aily reminders and such ...

Entries and old prompts are being collec= ted here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php

If you&#= 39;d like to see your work added to the list, please leave a comment on the= relevant LJ entry or email me off-list (DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com). To= day's LJ entry can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwri= tersguild/135806.html

Banners and icons are available for parti= cipants here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php<= /a>

And finally ... happy writing! :)

Dawn
=
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org
--00221532cba0b7b040046533d3ac-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2525 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20637 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2009 02:00:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2009 02:00:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f159.google.com) (209.85.217.159) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2009 02:00:15 -0000 X-Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3so7926717gxk.7 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:00:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.15.205 with SMTP id l13mr1180583iba.7.1237255214878; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:00:14 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255760ce944f2e046546edca X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Seventeen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=sDD8tdvu04vnEfY1TK8jYqX7w7JFPABMNN7eUKiYqbca5n8KsFxB X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0003255760ce944f2e046546edca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A stereotype is a generalization, usually exaggerated or oversimplified and often offensive, used to describe a group. Think about a group that you identify with, either in your real life or in Tolkien's works, and write down at least three stereotypes that do or might exist about that group. Write a story, poem or create an artwork where characters break stereotypes. -- I think I've gotten everything caught up on the website. (*whew!*) All entries for which I have links so far can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php If you'd like to be added or if I've made a mistake on your entry, please do let me know! Either leave me a comment on the LJ community (today's entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/136153.html) or drop me a line at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. Banners and icons for participants can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/136153.html#cutid1 Have fun and happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0003255760ce944f2e046546edca Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A stereotype is a generalization, usually exaggerated or oversimplified and= often offensive, used to describe a group. Think about a group that you id= entify with, either in your real life or in Tolkien's works, and write = down at least three stereotypes that do or might exist about that group.
Write a story, poem or create an artwork where characters break = stereotypes.

--

I think I've gotten everything caught up = on the website. (*whew!*) All entries for which I have links so far can be = found here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php
If you'd like to be added or if I've made a mistake on your entry,= please do let me know! Either leave me a comment on the LJ community (toda= y's entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/13615= 3.html) or drop me a line at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com.

Ban= ners and icons for participants can be found here:

http://commu= nity.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/136153.html#cutid1

Have fu= n and happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Da= wn Felagund
http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0003255760ce944f2e046546edca-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2526 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21963 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2009 02:51:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2009 02:51:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f173.google.com) (209.85.217.173) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2009 02:51:53 -0000 X-Received: by gxk21 with SMTP id 21so594738gxk.6 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:51:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.20.1 with SMTP id d1mr315290ibb.17.1237344712867; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:51:52 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032557470613428304655bc431 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Eighteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=1YC0589EcfHjQ_ySdMMz-aAdwyGMDGhdG67PNb3a8xvHJWDNALOy X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00032557470613428304655bc431 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craft a story, poem or artwork where your character is in bed and he or she awakes to a future leader, heir, or current leader standing outside the window, staring into your character's face with a giant smile. What's going on? --- I did not get a chance to update the website with today's stories, but everything through yesterday for which I have a link can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php Old prompts are here as well. If you would like me to link to your entry, either leave a comment on the relevant post on the SWG LJ community, or drop me an email! :) Today's LJ post is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/136296.html And, finally, banners and icons for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php May the plotbunnies bite! ... gently. ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00032557470613428304655bc431 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Craft a story, poem or artwork where your character is in bed and he or she= awakes to a future leader, heir, or current leader standing outside the wi= ndow, staring into your character's face with a giant smile. What's= going on?

---

I did not get a chance to update the website w= ith today's stories, but everything through yesterday for which I have = a link can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php<= br>
Old prompts are here as well. If you would like me to link to your = entry, either leave a comment on the relevant post on the SWG LJ community,= or drop me an email! :)

Today's LJ post is here: http://community= .livejournal.com/silwritersguild/136296.html

And, finally, bann= ers and icons for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

May the plotbunnies bite! ..= . gently. ;)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagun= d
http://themidh= avens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00032557470613428304655bc431-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2527 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17815 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2009 01:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2009 01:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.157) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2009 01:57:17 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 3so235104yxi.84 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:57:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.15.205 with SMTP id l13mr682434iba.7.1237427836777; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:57:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255760cea5747004656f1e23 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Nineteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=n6wOvBhxA6wEsyHAbcoGLZZeRHjBckxeyf8p1IO5Cs9vMlkaDnlf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0003255760cea5747004656f1e23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you could pass on three pieces of wisdom to future generations, what would they be? Now, from the point of view of a character, what three things would this character want to pass on to his or her children and grandchildren? How similar are they to yours? Write a story, poem or create a piece of art which reflects this. -- And ... the daily reminders! We are getting close to 200 entries for B2MeM so far. *staggers!* That does not count the banners and icons that Oshun and Rhapsody have made for us. If you would like to happily wile away a few hours reading, do check out what's been created so far! There is a bit of everything, and it is really impressive work. Entries created so far can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php If you'd like your work added to the list, either post it or link to it in a comment to the relevant post on the SWG's LJ community, or email me with a link. Today's LJ post is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/136575.html And, finally, banners and icons for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0003255760cea5747004656f1e23 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you could pass on three pieces of wisdom to future generations, what wou= ld they be?

Now, from the point of view of a character, what t= hree things would this character want to pass on to his or her children and= grandchildren? How similar are they to yours?

Write a story, = poem or create a piece of art which reflects this.

--

And ...= the daily reminders!

We are getting close to 200 entries for B2MeM = so far. *staggers!* That does not count the banners and icons that Oshun an= d Rhapsody have made for us. If you would like to happily wile away a few h= ours reading, do check out what's been created so far! There is a bit o= f everything, and it is really impressive work. Entries created so far can = be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php

If = you'd like your work added to the list, either post it or link to it in= a comment to the relevant post on the SWG's LJ community, or email me = with a link.

Today's LJ post is here: http://community.livejournal= .com/silwritersguild/136575.html

And, finally, banners and icon= s for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g/b2mem2009/banners.php

Happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= br>http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org
--0003255760cea5747004656f1e23-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2528 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8187 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2009 02:12:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2009 02:12:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.28) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2009 02:11:59 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so547413yxg.55 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:11:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.16.129 with SMTP id o1mr1014330iba.47.1237515119376; Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:11:59 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022152d7ddf1839ad04658371b5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Twenty X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=pbGUWxExU32mCo-ZzHKAZGNG8l_jAbXUENMF3pS9c0YPpIiFwsBn X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0022152d7ddf1839ad04658371b5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We all have experienced this. Due to illness, a family event, work, you didn't have as much time to study for an important test as you needed or finish a project you promised to do. Think of a specific event that you went through of which you felt unprepared for and write briefly about the preparation that you were able to do, the reasons that you didn't get to prepare as well as you wanted, and of course, the outcome. Write a story, poem or create a piece of art where a character is unprepared. --- All of the entries so far for which I have links are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. I think we may have exceeded 200 tonight, but I'm too tired to count! :) Banners and icons for participants are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php If you'd like your work added to the list, either drop me an email or leave a comment on the relevant entry in the silwritersguild LJ community. Today's LJ entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/136811.html Have fun and happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0022152d7ddf1839ad04658371b5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We all have experienced this. Due to illness, a family event, work, you did= n't have as much time to study for an important test as you needed or f= inish a project you promised to do. Think of a specific event that you went= through of which you felt unprepared for and write briefly about the prepa= ration that you were able to do, the reasons that you didn't get to pre= pare as well as you wanted, and of course, the outcome.

Write = a story, poem or create a piece of art where a character is unprepared. =

---

All of the entries so far for which I have links are he= re: http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. I think we may have e= xceeded 200 tonight, but I'm too tired to count! :)

Banners and= icons for participants are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2= mem2009/banners.php

If you'd like your work added to the lis= t, either drop me an email or leave a comment on the relevant entry in the = silwritersguild LJ community. Today's LJ entry is here: http://community.= livejournal.com/silwritersguild/136811.html

Have fun and happy = writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund<= br>http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0022152d7ddf1839ad04658371b5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2529 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88949 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2009 03:59:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2009 03:59:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f207.google.com) (209.85.217.207) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2009 03:59:56 -0000 X-Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3so3793151gxk.8 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:59:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.15.74 with SMTP id j10mr1331532iba.48.1237607995330; Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:59:55 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532cba0eed17c0465991002 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Twenty-One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hQSnvJMhOm9RRMGrInHhH0ymzc3SSodt_vSxzkB9mOXHF5wk14Q_ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532cba0eed17c0465991002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Describe a big storm from your memory and place it in Tolkien's world. Write a story, poem or create a piece of art that reflects this impressive moment. -- I did not get today's entries updated on the website, but everything I'd received as of yesterday can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. If you'd like your work added to the list, either email me or post a link to the relevant entry in the silwritersguild LJ community. Past prompts are here as well. Banners and icons for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php Have fun and happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532cba0eed17c0465991002 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Describe a big storm from your memory and place it in Tolkien's world. =

Write a story, poem or create a piece of art that reflects= this impressive moment.

--

I did not get today's entries= updated on the website, but everything I'd received as of yesterday ca= n be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. If you&#= 39;d like your work added to the list, either email me or post a link to th= e relevant entry in the silwritersguild LJ community. Past prompts are here= as well.

Banners and icons for participants can be found here: http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

Have f= un and happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
= Dawn Felagund
ht= tp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00221532cba0eed17c0465991002-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2530 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33365 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2009 01:46:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2009 01:46:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.46.28) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2009 01:46:42 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 2so1161114ywt.41 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:46:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.17.11 with SMTP id q11mr1521684iba.8.1237686401773; Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:46:41 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032557497e52333e0465ab52e4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Twenty-Two X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0wq_TBPHUKXmH5J1hWIa3n9XOLVtUi8z4AF9ucYYMdcx7JKEC8fg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00032557497e52333e0465ab52e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to the Romans, the basic principle of the law is that agreements should be respected under all circumstances. Do you agree with this? Is there a time in your life when you had to break this principle? When someone broke an agreement with you? Now write a story, poem or create an artwork where characters are forced to break this principle. -- I have just about finished updating links for what was written today and yesterday. I'm still missing a few but have nothing planned all day tomorrow and so will catch up then. In the meantime, please find *almost* all of the entries so far, as well as past prompts, here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php And banners and icons for participants here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php Happy writing! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00032557497e52333e0465ab52e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to the Romans, the basic principle of the law is that agreements = should be respected under all circumstances. Do you agree with this? Is the= re a time in your life when you had to break this principle? When someone b= roke an agreement with you?

Now write a story, poem or create = an artwork where characters are forced to break this principle.

--
I have just about finished updating links for what was written today = and yesterday. I'm still missing a few but have nothing planned all day= tomorrow and so will catch up then. In the meantime, please find almost= all of the entries so far, as well as past prompts, here: http://www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php

And banners and icons for part= icipants here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php=

Happy writing!

Dawn

--
~oOo~Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
= --00032557497e52333e0465ab52e4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2531 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69526 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2009 02:53:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2009 02:53:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.153) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2009 02:53:17 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so1388177ywk.54 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:53:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.17.74 with SMTP id r10mr1429421iba.13.1237776797043; Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:53:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215046c8b4c8ed90465c05e81 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09:: Day Twenty-Three: Mercurial Monday! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=P9GB6LhKQPVqGyjjdm8Gv3nxTVUa7OP4U3t6kzLBv7VwaGYUsaBQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --002215046c8b4c8ed90465c05e81 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mercurial Mondays are our way of trying to make Mondays just a little bit better. Yes, Mondays are a pain in the neck, and we don't want to make that pain worse by posting a prompt that is difficult or uninspiring. So, on Mondays, we post *two* prompts, in hopes that this doubles the chance that you'll like one of them. Choose whichever you like best, but if you like them both and choose to do both, the second prompt can stand in place of * any* prompt that you don't want to do at any time during the challenge. Today's Mercurial Monday prompts are: 1. You find an old dusty bottle and, when you pick it up, a genie pops out! What three wishes would you make and why? Now, imagine that your character bumps into a genie (or a Middle-earth variation of it) and she offers to grant your character three wishes. What are the wishes and why would he and she wish for them? Create an artwork, story or poem how your character mulls it over or goes about it. *and/or * 2. What is the greatest sacrifice you can be asked to make? Think or write briefly about this. Write a story, poem or create an artwork where the characters make their greatest sacrifice. -- All of the links I've been sent (and then some!) were added to the website today. So, as of this moment, all of the entries can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. In all likelihood, that will not be true fifteen minutes from now but, at this precise moment, we are caught up! \0/ Banners and icons for participants are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php And, finally, if you'd like your work added to the list on the website (or if I've made a mistake on your listing), please let me know, either by posting a comment on the relevant entry on the silwritersguild LJ community or by emailing me at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. Today's LJ entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/137650.html. Have fun and happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --002215046c8b4c8ed90465c05e81 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mercurial Mondays are our way of trying to make Mondays just a little bit b= etter. Yes, Mondays are a pain in the neck, and we don't want to make t= hat pain worse by posting a prompt that is difficult or uninspiring. So, on= Mondays, we post two prompts, in hopes that this doubles the chance= that you'll like one of them. Choose whichever you like best, but if y= ou like them both and choose to do both, the second prompt can stand in pla= ce of any prompt that you don't want to do at any time during th= e challenge.

Today's Mercurial Monday prompts are:

1. Yo= u find an old dusty bottle and, when you pick it up, a genie pops out! What= three wishes would you make and why?

Now, imagine that your c= haracter bumps into a genie (or a Middle-earth variation of it) and she off= ers to grant your character three wishes. What are the wishes and why would= he and she wish for them?

Create an artwork, story or poem ho= w your character mulls it over or goes about it.

and/or
2. What is the greatest sacrifice you can be asked to make? Think or writ= e briefly about this.

Write a story, poem or create an art= work where the characters make their greatest sacrifice.

--

A= ll of the links I've been sent (and then some!) were added to the websi= te today. So, as of this moment, all of the entries can be found here: http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. In all likelihood, that will = not be true fifteen minutes from now but, at this precise moment, we are ca= ught up! \0/

Banners and icons for participants are here: http://w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

And, final= ly, if you'd like your work added to the list on the website (or if I&#= 39;ve made a mistake on your listing), please let me know, either by postin= g a comment on the relevant entry on the silwritersguild LJ community or by= emailing me at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. Today's LJ entry is here= : = http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/137650.html.

H= ave fun and happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~=
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --002215046c8b4c8ed90465c05e81-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2532 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21880 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2009 03:13:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2009 03:13:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.155) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2009 03:13:18 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 4so1242883ywq.8 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:13:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.16.129 with SMTP id o1mr1737094iba.9.1237777997523; Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 23:13:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022152d7ddfda6b7b0465c0a5c5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Days 6 and 7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=nNbmveFk_8OwMaasJ3KKnkyVs360Hpzm0OLeSQ12_s_A1B-kRFbi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0022152d7ddfda6b7b0465c0a5c5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I stole a few hours for writing today and so am trying to catch up with my own project. I've posted two more vignettes in my character study of Pengolodh, one of the fictional authors of *The Silmarillion*. "Song of Creation Denied and Thwarted," for Day 6: Music SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=460&chapter=6 Website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch6.php Please be forewarned that "Song" does discuss miscarriage very briefly. I've rated it Teens for this reason. "Look," for Day 7: A Tree Whispers ... SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=460&chapter=7 Website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch7.php "Look" is safe for all audiences. Enjoy! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0022152d7ddfda6b7b0465c0a5c5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I stole a few hours for writing today and so am trying to catch up with my = own project. I've posted two more vignettes in my character study of Pe= ngolodh, one of the fictional authors of The Silmarillion.

&= quot;Song of Creation Denied and Thwarted," for Day 6: Music
SWG: <= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.ph= p?sid=3D460&chapter=3D6">http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archiv= e/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D460&chapter=3D6
Website: http://www.themi= dhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch6.php

Please be forewarned t= hat "Song" does discuss miscarriage very briefly. I've rated = it Teens for this reason.

"Look," for Day 7: A Tree Whisp= ers ...
SWG: http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D460&chapter=3D7
Web= site: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch7.php

"= ;Look" is safe for all audiences.

Enjoy! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org
--0022152d7ddfda6b7b0465c0a5c5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2533 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94876 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2009 05:45:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2009 05:45:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f226.google.com) (209.85.217.226) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2009 05:45:33 -0000 X-Received: by gxk26 with SMTP id 26so7273757gxk.7 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:45:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.67.6 with SMTP id p6mr3924576aga.25.1237787133107; Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?192.168.1.110? (ool-457c028c.dyn.optonline.net [69.124.2.140]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 10sm8173309agb.59.2009.03.22.22.45.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <49C721F9.8080508@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:45:29 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Cc: Henneth Annun References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM09: Days 6 and 7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=sltspsAd3fo97Q1P6ZPsRezf-2kBHmwRf9u64imiorkwuv5rByCgtA X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, > Enjoy! :) > I am glad to see you are finding some time to write for yourself. You are putting so much time into reviewing everyone else. I will admit that I know very little about Pengolodh. I want to read your stories and probably will, but it is very difficult for me to just slip in a quick read of unfamiliar characters between other things. So while I have not been reviewing, I am saving these for a later time when I can properly enjoy them. I usually enjoy your stories quite a bit, even when I don't know the canon that well. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2534 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4065 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2009 01:52:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by 98.137.34.37 with QMQP; 24 Mar 2009 01:52:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f159.google.com) (209.85.217.159) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2009 01:52:11 -0000 X-Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3so8421gxk.23 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:52:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.31.130 with SMTP id y2mr1464888ibc.52.1237859531104; Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:52:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032557415ea223ed0465d3a1c8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Twenty-Four X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Gf_jZj5DbUEn_ZSgdYCaDI9Wevg7lrja2w5iMF_x_bk9EU8HCTbq X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00032557415ea223ed0465d3a1c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Choose your favorite line or quotation from a non-Tolkien source. It can be a book, movie, poem--anything you can think of! Write down that quote. Now create a story, poem, or work of art that relates to it somehow, either the quote itself or the meaning that you take from it. -- Unfortunately, I did not get a chance to update the links list on the website tonight, but everything I had as of last night is here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php Banners and icons are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php If you'd like me to add your work to the list, please just send me a link or comment on the relevant entry in the silwritersguild LJ community. Today's entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/137739.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00032557415ea223ed0465d3a1c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Choose your favorite line or quotation from a non-Tolkien source. It can be= a book, movie, poem--anything you can think of!

Write dow= n that quote.

Now create a story, poem, or work of art that re= lates to it somehow, either the quote itself or the meaning that you take f= rom it.

--

Unfortunately, I did not get a chance to update th= e links list on the website tonight, but everything I had as of last night = is here: = http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php

Banners a= nd icons are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners= .php

If you'd like me to add your work to the list, please j= ust send me a link or comment on the relevant entry in the silwritersguild = LJ community. Today's entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/sil= writersguild/137739.html

Happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= br>http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org
--00032557415ea223ed0465d3a1c8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2535 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53277 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2009 09:06:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2009 09:06:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f208.google.com) (209.85.217.208) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2009 09:06:34 -0000 X-Received: by gxk4 with SMTP id 4so4360771gxk.20 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:06:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.17.11 with SMTP id q11mr2081932iba.8.1237885593805; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 04:06:33 -0500 Message-ID: <511ea890903240206o6f211279xdd752e406c59ce08@mail.gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, littlebalrog , glorfindel_of_imladris@yahoogroups.com, erestor_lovers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: B2MEM-10-A Fool in Paradise X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=DsjTJ29YhtzCodav1IWWYTCP4xanUCs4fPKs0oWQM7y6XCJgCZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex FIC: B2MEM-10-A Fool in Paradise Title: A Fool in Paradise Author: Zhie Ra= ting: PG Characters: Glorfindel, Erestor Warnings: very mild slash, I suppo= se Archive: http://phoenix.zhie.us Summary: Response to B2MEM Prompt #10 = =96 "Traveling is a fool's paradise. We owe to our first journeys the disco= very that place is nothing." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Then after some time th= ey traveled to southern Aman =96 and here they saw towering high above them= the Hyarmentir, and the other mountains capped with snow. In the distance,= they appeared like ghosts of the rocky cliffs from Gondolin. It was their = first journey together into placed unexplored by Glorfindel, and Erestor wa= s pleased to act as guide. The excitement exhibited by Erestor was mirrore= d by Glorfindel in the form of an unseen mask. During the first days of the= ir travels, Glorfindel appeared as delighted as Erestor; however, upon reti= ring at an inn for the evening of the sixth day, the transparency of Glorfi= ndel=92s disguise was worn away. It was clear to Erestor that his companion= was not sharing the same desire and he when the announcement that they sho= uld climb to the peak of Hyarmentir was met with a false smile. =93Is it t= hat the travel has made you weary, or is the scenery not to your liking?=94= questioned Erestor once he finished tending to the fireplace. =93The scen= ery is fine,=94 said Glorfindel carefully. =93Is it my presence, then?=94 = wondered Erestor. =93I should speak less and allow you to look more,=94 he = added to himself. Glorfindel reached out to a pacing Erestor and managed t= o touch his wrist. =93It has nothing to do with that.=94 He smiled when Ere= stor turned to face him in an attempt to appear friendlier. =93My darling, = this is not to in any way make your home seem any lesser, but I fear I shal= l disappoint you to tell you the truth.=94 =93There is no need to lie to m= e,=94 insisted Erestor, his arms folding defensively over his chest despite= his comment. =93I doubt you will upset me.=94 Glorfindel drummed his fing= ers on the arm of the chair he sat in. =93Every mountain looks like every o= ther mountain.=94 =93But... the Hyarmentir is the highest peak in this par= t of the Pelori.=94 Glorfindel smiled as sweetly as he could. =93The mount= ains here in the South look just like the mountains in the North. And the m= ountains in the North,=94 he continued, =93look strikingly similar to the H= ithaeglir. All of them look like the Echoriath,=94 he added, he voice takin= g on a slightly acidic tone. Erestor bit his lip and dropped his arms to h= is sides. =93I should not have made you come to see the mountains,=94 he ap= ologized. He snapped his fingers. =93We could go to see the forest of Orome= ! I am sure you will enjoy that much better.=94 =93Alright,=94 answered a = hesitant Glorfindel as he stood and headed for the bed in the next room. Er= estor managed to take hold of Glorfindel=92s hand before he was able to wal= k away. =93Darling, what is wrong?=94 =93Well, I suppose it is just that..= . I have seen forests and mountains and all other things. I have little des= ire to travel,=94 admitted Glorfindel. =93Do you want to go home?=94 asked= Erestor after a moment=92s hesitation. =93Where are you going?=94 asked G= lorfindel. When Erestor did not immediately answer, he continued, =93I am g= oing where you go; my destination is to follow your footprints. If that mea= ns climbing a mountain, or camping in a forest, or canoeing down a stream, = that is where I shall be. Place means nothing; who I am with means everythi= ng,=94 he emphasized, giving Erestor=92s hand a squeeze. Erestor returned = the action and nodded. =93Then we should go home.=94 =93Wait a moment,=94 = said Glorfindel, tightening his grip on Erestor=92s hand when he attempted = to walk away. =93Just because I do not care whether or not I see another mo= untain does not mean you need to sacrifice completely for me. Do you want t= o see the mountain, or were we just going so that you could show the mounta= in to me?=94 =93For you,=94 replied Erestor. =93I have seen it many times = before.=94 =93Then, if it is all the same to you, we can go home. Unless t= here is another place you desire to go?=94 prodded Glorfindel. =93I do lik= e visiting Tanequetil,=94 Erestor finally said. =93I have friends living on= the slopes I should like you to meet.=94 Glorfindel finally smiled honest= ly. =93Now that sounds like a journey worth making.=94 -- Tales from Vali= nor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're always= after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2536 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13642 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2009 09:08:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2009 09:08:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.154) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2009 09:08:15 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 6so1608268yxn.28 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:08:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.19.72 with SMTP id z8mr2082209iba.6.1237885695374; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 04:08:15 -0500 Message-ID: <511ea890903240208n7e8ec65co80ed9371b24dda29@mail.gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, littlebalrog , HaldirLovers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: B2MEM-08-Beholden X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=-fu8ibU6WAJkTDWeo_AMbDLhUtg4G8_da_wfcbqeqKBBaD4XpdI X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex FIC: B2MEM-08-Beholden Title: Beholden Author: Zhie Rating: PG Characters:= Maedhros, Ereinion Gil-Galad, Fingon Archive: http://phoenix.zhie.us Summa= ry: Response to B2MEM Prompt #8 =96 Beauty and Ugliness Ereinion peeked a= round the corner and grinned. =93Uncle Maedhros?=94 Maedhros briefly glanc= ed up from his breakfast =96 a simple cup of tea with honey and dry, toaste= d bread. The flit of his eyes toward the youth was invitation enough, even = though Maedhros knew that the Elfling had been instructed by his father nev= er to bother him before noon. The young prince bounded over and climbed up= onto the bench beside the older Elf. =93Good morning!=94 Maedhros made a = noise that sounded like =91mrrhhph=92. He was not predispositioned to enjoy= mornings. =93Ada said you were going to arrive later this week. You must = have rode here really fast.=94 There was a nod as Maedhros sipped his tea,= set it down, and picked up a slice of bread with the same hand. His right = arm remained hidden, his wrist tucked away in the long sleeve of his shirt.= =93Why do most people call you Maedhros, while Ada calls you Maitimo some= times?=94 queried Ereinion when no further verbal answer to his previous qu= estion was given. =93They mean the same thing,=94 mumbled Maedhros. =93Mai= timo is Quenya.=94 =93Oh, well, I have not learned a lot of Quenya yet. Wh= o named you Maedhros?=94 asked Ereinion as his small hands picked up the en= d of Maedhros=92s sash and traced along the intricate embroidered pattern o= f stars. For a minute, Maedhros watched Ereinion, as intrigued at the chil= d=92s fascination as Ereinion was with everything. =93My Nana did. She thou= ght I was a beautiful baby, and for the most part I did not disappoint when= I grew up.=94 =93What do you mean, for the most part?=94 Ereinion asked. = Maedhros shook his head and drew his right arm further back. The movement = was not unnoticed by Ereinion, who said, =93You seem like a pretty nice loo= king Elf to me.=94 =93Sure,=94 replied Maedhros. He focused on his breakfa= st again. As he switched from the toast back to the tea, he felt something = brush his right arm. He glanced down and saw Ereinion carefully folding bac= k the cuff of his sleeve. Maedhros nearly yanked his arm away, but somethin= g made him keep still as his wound was revealed. There were children who h= ad run away or hidden upon seeing his marred arm =96 in fact, some adults h= ad turned away in disgust. Ereinion stared with his mouth half open for a b= it. Just as Maedhros was about to reach down and cover his arm up again, Er= einion leaned over and touched the healed scar that had formed over the stu= mp of Maedhros=92s wrist. =93Does it hurt?=94 he asked a stunned Maedhros. = =93Not at the moment. Sometimes it does,=94 Maedhros admitted. =93It feel= s really smooth,=94 remarked Ereinion as he rubbed his fingers against it. = Fingon entered the room, and stopped midstride when he saw what was going = on. =93Ereinion,=94 he hissed, and the boy looked up. =93What did I tell yo= u about bothering your uncle this early? Go back to the nursery; your mothe= r is looking for you.=94 =93Yes, Ada,=94 answered Ereinion as he hopped of= f of the bench and scampered back through the doorway. Once Ereinion was g= one, Fingon sat down in the spot his son had vacated. =93I apologize. He sh= ould know better,=94 whispered Fingon. For emphasis of his point, he folded= the cloth back down to cover Maedhros=92s right arm and sighed. =93He was= not harming anything.=94 =93Well, I know how much it bothers you,=94 said= Fingon quietly. Maedhros stopped eating. =93What bothers me?=94 Fingon s= hifted slightly. =93You know...=94 He glanced down at Maedhros=92s covered = limb. =93I will discuss it with him later so that it does not happen again.= =94 There was silence, and then Maedhros lifted up his right arm so that t= he sleeve cascaded down, revealing his missing hand. Fingon gulped but did = not turn away. =93This,=94 said Maedhros with emphasis, =93does not bother = me. It bothers you and everyone else, except, it would seem, Ereinion. I do= not keep it covered for my own need; I keep it hidden for your benefit, an= d the benefit of everyone else.=94 Fingon squirmed, and finally, looked aw= ay. =93It is not quite so... simple as that. I am not so disgusted by it as= what it represents =96 my failure to return you whole.=94 =93It is done,= =94 Maedhros reminded him. =93You did more than anyone else, and as much as= could be done.=94 The silence became uncomfortable, and Maedhros stood up.= =93Do you mind if I speak with your son?=94 =93Of course not,=94 answered= Fingon immediately. He stood as well, and followed Maedhros out of the sun= room and back through the hall to the nursery. Ereinion was sitting on the= floor, amid wooden panels with words written on them that were spread abou= t in all directions. He was busy making sentences with the words as the pai= r entered, but abandoned his task upon seeing them. =93Good morning, Ada! G= ood morning again, Uncle Maedhros!=94 =93Your uncle wishes to speak to you= ,=94 explained Fingon. Ereinion nodded and looked far up, for Maedhros was= the tallest Elf the boy knew, and he had been taught to always look at the= person speaking to him. =93I think you have some questions for me that ha= ve been left unanswered,=94 said Maedhros. =93I thought you and I could tak= e a walk to the stables and discuss them. You have not seen my new horse ye= t, and I want to make sure he is well after the long ride here.=94 The gri= n on Ereinion=92s face was answer enough. Maedhros held out his hand =96 an= d blinked in surprise when Ereinion took hold of his right wrist instead. = =93What time do we need to be back, Ada?=94 Fingon was momentarily as stun= ned as Maedhros, but eventually said, =93Be back in time for lunch.=94 =93= We will!=94 promised Ereinion as he led a now bemused Maedhros outside. -= - Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie= .us They're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2537 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7018 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2009 09:09:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2009 09:09:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.153) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2009 09:09:11 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 34so1474320yxf.50 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:09:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.10.68 with SMTP id o4mr2075781ibo.33.1237885751311; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 04:09:11 -0500 Message-ID: <511ea890903240209g4ec40eeegc9ce30bc0ff3a3a5@mail.gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, littlebalrog , HaldirLovers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: B2MEM-05-Exculpation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=0mOPTTjkxApgh_er43V-NUB9bIXGICGKIlTKAZaTspAYP-RgMnk X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex FIC: B2MEM-05-Exculpation Title: Exculpation Author: Zhie Rating: PG Chara= cters: Feanor, Fingolfin Archive: http://phoenix.zhie.us Summary: Response = to B2MEM Prompt #5 =96 Regret & Starting Over Once again, he lifted his f= ist, fingers clenched together tightly, his eyes focused on his mark. He dr= ew back slightly, hardly breathing. His hand =96 his arm =96 his whole body= shook, and those who knew him so long ago might have mistaken it for rage.= Slowly, the hand was lowered; the fist unclenched. Feanor swallowed hard = and closed his eyes while bowing his head. He heard an owl in the distance= , and tilted his head back upward. His eyes opened and took in the beauty o= f the night sky =96 =91night=92 was what they called this, when the stars w= ere bright against a cloak of black. Yet, they were dimmer than he recalled= them to have been, and the guilt that was becoming so common as of late st= ruck him once more. =93Stupid, stupid, stupid,=94 he mumbled to himself. I= t has become his recent mantra, to mask his former pride with admitted idio= cy. The trouble was that even if others believed it, he knew in his heart t= hat arrogance had played a far bigger role in his fall than a loss of commo= n sense. Once again, he lifted his fist, fingers clenched together tightly= . The door separated him from his future, though he could turn and leave at= any time. Now the shaking renewed, and he let his arms relax at his sides.= It was so much easier said than done. He knew he no longer held a grudge,= no longer loathed or hated them, or even cared about those thing which onc= e caused him such grief. It was going to take three very small, very quick = words to express those feelings. Feanor cupped his hands together and place= d them over his nose and mouth in order to calm himself. The shaking subsi= ded, but the fear remained. =93I cannot do this,=94 he whispered to no one,= and he turned. The door now behind him, he faintly heard the sounds from w= ithin of merriment and happiness. His resolve to leave diminished with ever= y moment, and he gasped slightly as the guilt turned to longing and regret.= Tears he had kept hidden for so long were wiped away quickly and he turned= back to face the door. Once again, he lifted his fist =96 and the door op= ened. He lowered it in immediate shock =96 wide-eyed as a deer caught by th= e huntsman in a clearing. Feanor choked on his words, unpracticed yet simpl= e, unable to speak. =93Brother! You have returned!=94 Fingolfin frowned an= d his face showed concern when Feanor did not respond. =93Why do you stand = alone on my porch at such a late hour? Surely you have reason to be here?= =94 The words were hopeful. The reply was faint and Fingolfin looked confu= sed. Feanor swallowed and tried again. =93I am sorry.=94 Fingolfin blinked= and looked downward, as if to jog his memory. When he looked up again, he = asked, =93Whatever for?=94 =93Everything,=94 added Feanor after a pause. = Fingolfin opened the door wider and stepped to the side. =93We were just ha= ving a glass of wine by the fire. You are welcome to join us, of course. My= mother is here tonight =96 she always did like you, even if you were not s= o very fond of her...=94 he trailed off. Feanor stood on the porch, rooted= in place. =93That is it?=94 he asked, dumbfounded. =93An age of misery fro= m me, and more from my enemies, upon you and your entire family... and you = invite me into your home?=94 =93I could turn you away,=94 supposed Fingolf= in, =93but I really do not wish to.=94 They stood silently on the porch as= the owl hooted again. Finally, Feanor broke the silence. =93How is your mo= ther these days?=94 he asked, inquiring as to the wellbeing of his father= =92s second wife. =93You could come in and ask her yourself,=94 Fingolfin = reminded him. He stepped further away from the doorway and motioned toward = the entrance. =93Fresh scones and tea if you prefer those to wine,=94 he of= fered. Feanor took a few steps toward the threshold and stopped. =93I am s= orry,=94 he said again, finding it easier the second time. It was no less s= incere than the first, and Fingolfin nodded. =93I know. I forgive you,=94 = he said. He shrugged. =93I forgave you even then, remember? I told the Vala= r there was no reason to punish you, and I followed you clear across the se= a =96 over the ice after you burned those ships we fought so hard to get.= =94 The reminder brought another remorseful look to Feanor=92s face. =93Ho= w?=94 =93Oh, I do not know,=94 said Fingolfin. =93We just set our minds on= our goal and walked very carefully. It was cold, but=97=93 =93No, I mean.= .. how could you forgive me so easily?=94 =93You are my brother; always ha= ve been and always will be. We do things, we forgive each other, we move on= .=94 He started to grin, and said, =93You were not the only one, you know. = Finarfin did a few things that made me want to ring his neck sometimes, but= I always forgave him.=94 =93I thought you and Finarfin got along so well,= =94 said Feanor. =93Sure, but we still drove each other crazy from time to= time. Tell you all about it over tea and scones,=94 he tempted. -- Tales= from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They= 're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2538 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31668 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2009 09:10:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2009 09:10:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.250) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2009 09:10:39 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c37so1566516anc.44 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:10:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.18.130 with SMTP id w2mr2088925iba.11.1237885838709; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 04:10:38 -0500 Message-ID: <511ea890903240210k2dc8e9a0x3fc753afb047098d@mail.gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, HaldirLovers , littlebalrog Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: FIC: B2MEM-13-Icecapades X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=kEzFiw5wEc9dlV5MJY766JArxvtD-SkmdtTNwWFfcj-A-nhfA14 X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex FIC: B2MEM-13-Icecapades Title: Icecapades Author: Zhie Rating: G Characte= rs: Finrod, Orodreth, Aegnor, Angrod, Galadriel Archive: http://phoenix.zhi= e.us Summary: Response to B2MEM Prompt #13 =96 Fear For the first time in= ages, all of the children of Finarfin gathered together for a night of fea= sting and talking and merriment. The excitement of being together again kep= t them up all night and into the morning. It was only after Amari=EB had he= rded them into the kitchen for pancakes and eggs that they realized the tim= e and made plans for another meeting as soon as possible. They laughed and= joked their way to the door, but upon opening it, became collectively deat= hly silent. Angrod was the first to speak. =93Obviously the Valar still ha= te us.=94 =93They never hated us,=94 disputed Aegnor. =93They just... they= have a very warped sense of humor.=94 =93Warped sense of humor? This is d= ownright sadistic,=94 Orodreth decided. Finrod simply stared out across th= e lawn. Galadriel, tall and yet not as tall as her brothers, gently touched= Aegnor on the shoulder in order to get him to move aside. As the view beca= me unobstructed, she cringed. =93Oh, my,=94 she said to herself. She steppe= d back behind Finrod and asked, =93Is there another way out?=94 The quinte= t shuffled away from the door, closed it, and proceeded to the back of Finr= od=92s residence. He settled his hand on the knob, and after a moment, yank= ed it open in hopes of surprising whatever it was into not being there. In= stead, they found that this way was worse. Not only was the grass covered i= n a sheet of ice, but the back stoop was as well. =93I guess we should cou= nt ourselves lucky that there is earth beneath the ice and not water,=94 Or= odreth finally remarked. =93Surely, it will not move if we step on it.=94 = =93Are you volunteering?=94 asked Angrod. Orodreth stared out over the gla= ssy surface. =93Not really. I was terrible on ice. You, on the other hand, = have an innate grace about you.=94 =93Normally idle flattery would be enou= gh to stroke my ego, but in this case I am content to stay in the wake of y= ou and Finrod.=94 =93How did I get elected?=94 questioned Finrod. =93You = are the eldest,=94 Angrod reminded him. =93And the tallest,=94 Finrod argu= ed. =93For me, it is a longer, harder fall! Besides,=94 he added, as more a= reminded to himself, =93I live here! I have no reason to leave!=94 Galadr= iel had maneuvered her way around her brothers again, and was testing the i= ce with one foot. =93It does not seem too slipper---whoa!=94 Her foot hit a= particularly smooth patch and would have caused her to slide off of the st= oop had she not had four very concerned brothers grab her arms and steady h= er. She was immediately back inside of the house. =93We could get a couple= of branches, sharpen the ends, and use them steady our way across,=94 sugg= ested Aegnor. =93Or, we could just wait for spring,=94 Orodreth said. =93= I vote for spring,=94 agreed Angrod quickly. =93Spring,=94 said Galadriel = with a nod. Aegnor looked slightly hurt that his idea was not chosen, but = he turned to his eldest brother and asked, =93What is Amari=EB making for l= unch?=94 as Finrod shut the door. -- Tales from Valinor... they're magica= lly delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're always after me purple bunn= ies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2539 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32740 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2009 09:12:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2009 09:12:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f171.google.com) (209.85.217.171) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2009 09:12:09 -0000 X-Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19so719204gxk.1 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:12:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.19.72 with SMTP id z8mr2071035iba.42.1237885929098; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 04:12:09 -0500 Message-ID: <511ea890903240212l63a26505v842d429a62d6490e@mail.gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, littlebalrog , HaldirLovers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?FIC=3A_B2MEM=2D07_=96_Weeping_Willow?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=nJtHTnnnOzgCWP8y0HFLPka-uk-ZEsGh61dU4YUX1bxnkjHsFBc X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex FIC: B2MEM-07 =96 Weeping Willow Title: Weeping Willow Author: Zhie Rating= : G Characters: Aredhel, a tree Archive: http://phoenix.zhie.us Summary: Re= sponse to B2MEM Prompt #7 =96 Whispering Trees =93Go back.=94 Aredhel pa= used. She had traveled alone for days now, her horse lost in the confusion = of an attack by the same vile creatures that had separated her from her cha= perones some months earlier. That part did not worry her; she had made it t= o Celegorm=92s house on her own, and she could certainly go wherever else s= he pleased on her own as well. At least, that was what she kept telling he= rself. =93Go back.=94 With her arms crossed over her chest, she looked up= into the bows overhead. The first time, she thought she had only heard in = her mind the faint voice. Now she scanned the branches, thinking she might = see one of the woodland Elves native to the outer reaches of Doriath. =93Sh= ow yourself, please,=94 she announced. The branches swayed as a breeze cam= e, and the words on the wind were clearer now. =93Go back... go back...=94 = The white lady leaned against the trunk of the insistent tree. =93Go back = to where, exactly? To Gondolin, to my brother, who shall smirk at my return= and lock me away in one of his towers? To wait for my cousin, who wanders = far and wide and has lost sight of his father=92s goal? To Valinor, ah, but= we all walk about in circles now with only false hopes of returning or reg= rets of leaving. No, I cannot go back, only forward,=94 she replied as she = pressed her palms upon the bark of the tree and pushed herself back to stan= ding. =93Go back.=94 =93I appreciate your concern.=94 =93Go back.=94 = =93Good day!=94 =93Go back!=94 =93You really are persistant.=94 =93Come = to me.=94 Aredhel, who had been smugly walking away from the whispering wi= llow, took a step back. =93Reverse psychology?=94 she questioned as she loo= ked over her shoulder, but faintly, she could still hear the tree, almost b= egging her to return. She began to take another step in the direction of th= e trees, but the new voice was stronger. =93Come to me...=94 More compell= ing... =93Come to me...=94 As if in a daze, she continued once again on h= er path, further into the depths of Nan Elmoth. And the willow wept. -- = Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us= They're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2540 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57283 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2009 02:09:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by 98.137.34.37 with QMQP; 25 Mar 2009 02:09:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f169.google.com) (209.85.217.169) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2009 02:09:22 -0000 X-Received: by gxk17 with SMTP id 17so6993323gxk.21 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:09:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.20.2 with SMTP id d2mr2646278ibb.27.1237946961593; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:09:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032557467ae585780465e7fc12 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Twenty-Five X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xQ82YwUF51UXERLFQgN2ANQf7oS5LF7l0yxugnejOFyK4fTLggca X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00032557467ae585780465e7fc12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What are your fondest memories of your childhood? And the saddest? Write briefly about a memory that is particularly powerful, whether it is happy or sad. Write a story, poem or create an artwork based on those feelings and experiences or based on a character's memories. -- In addition to B2MeM09: Day Twenty-Five, today is also the anniversary of the day that Frodo destroyed the Ring *and* it is Tolkien Reading Day! It's a very busy day for Tolkien fans. So I'll be quick and let everyone get to the festivities ... ;) All entries created so far are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php Banners and icons are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php Have fun! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00032557467ae585780465e7fc12 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What are your fondest memories of your childhood? And the saddest? Write briefly about a memory that is particularly powerful, whether it is happy or sad.

Write a story, poem or create an artwork based on those feelings and experiences
or
based on a character's memories.

--

In addition to B2MeM09: Day Twenty-Five, today is also the anniversary of the day that Frodo destroyed the Ring and it is Tolkien Reading Day! It's a very busy day for Tolkien fans.

So I'll be quick and let everyone get to the festivities ... ;)

All entries created so far are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php

Banners and icons are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

Have fun! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00032557467ae585780465e7fc12-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2541 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83166 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2009 00:08:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by 98.137.34.37 with QMQP; 26 Mar 2009 00:08:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.153) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2009 00:08:44 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 3so220931yxi.4 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:08:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.16.74 with SMTP id n10mr48768iba.28.1238026123996; Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:08:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574d7a57f0110465fa6bd9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Twenty-Six X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=nVSQZajA-WxxxTngDwt3AyKjLJ-5LzXoU6RInVYtU8S5lC1IIAyR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325574d7a57f0110465fa6bd9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Think of a teacher who played a key role in your life. What qualities about this person influenced you? Write briefly about this person: a short character sketch, scene, or conversation involving her or him. Write a story, poem or create an artwork about a character who educated his people in some way. -- The daily reminders ... All of the entries so far for which I have received links may be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. I have fallen behind on reading and replying to entries, as well as to scouring sites outside of the SWG for entries, but that is what weekends are for! :) If you have not checked out the entries yet, I definitely encourage it! Some fantastic work--both artwork and writing--has been created this month! Banners and icons for participants are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php And, finally, if you would like your work added to the list on our website, either email me a link (DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com) or comment on the relevant entry in the silwritersguild LJ community. Today's LJ entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/138407.html Have fun and happy writing! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325574d7a57f0110465fa6bd9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Think of a teacher who played a key role in your life. What qualities about= this person influenced you? Write briefly about this person: a short chara= cter sketch, scene, or conversation involving her or him.

Writ= e a story, poem or create an artwork about a character who educated his peo= ple in some way.

--

The daily reminders ...

All o= f the entries so far for which I have received links may be found here: http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. I have fallen behind on read= ing and replying to entries, as well as to scouring sites outside of the SW= G for entries, but that is what weekends are for! :)

If you have no= t checked out the entries yet, I definitely encourage it! Some fantastic wo= rk--both artwork and writing--has been created this month!

Banners a= nd icons for participants are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/= b2mem2009/banners.php

And, finally, if you would like your work= added to the list on our website, either email me a link (DawnFelagund AT = gmail DOT com) or comment on the relevant entry in the silwritersguild LJ c= ommunity. Today's LJ entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silw= ritersguild/138407.html

Have fun and happy writing!

Dawn=


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/
http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--000325574d7a57f0110465fa6bd9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2542 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59820 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2009 04:30:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2009 04:30:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.30) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2009 04:30:28 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so593683yxj.83 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:30:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.20.1 with SMTP id d1mr382512ibb.19.1238128227875; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:30:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574706357bce0466123114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Twenty-Seven X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Qc9fcqQGEaqKSzzC69giuo747Jo-2Q45uvS341ExXJj1PLC6-Q7N X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325574706357bce0466123114 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Imagine this, a relative of your chosen characters passes on and lives your character a trunk. He or she opens it when... Capture that moment in a piece of art, be it a drawing, story or poem. -- All of the entries that I've collected so far can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. Just a reminder: If you'd like to be added to the list, please either send me a link or comment on the relevant entry in the silwritersguild LiveJournal community. Icons and banners for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php Finally, we now have less than a week left in B2MeM. As some already know, anyone who has decided to take on the Herculean task of creating something for all thirty-one prompts will get a special banner to commemorate their efforts. I've posted some additional information and reminders about this on our LJ community; I won't double-post here, but please check it out, if you're interested: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/138747.html Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325574706357bce0466123114 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Imagine this, a relative of your chosen characters passes on and lives your= character a trunk. He or she opens it when...

Capture tha= t moment in a piece of art, be it a drawing, story or poem.

--
All of the entries that I've collected so far can be found here: http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. Just a reminder: If you'd= like to be added to the list, please either send me a link or comment on t= he relevant entry in the silwritersguild LiveJournal community.

Icons and banners for participants can be found here: http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php

Finally, we n= ow have less than a week left in B2MeM. As some already know, anyone who ha= s decided to take on the Herculean task of creating something for all thirt= y-one prompts will get a special banner to commemorate their efforts. I'= ;ve posted some additional information and reminders about this on our LJ c= ommunity; I won't double-post here, but please check it out, if you'= ;re interested: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/138747.html<= /a>

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund<= br>http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--000325574706357bce0466123114-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2543 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52175 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2009 03:45:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2009 03:45:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-2324.google.com) (74.125.44.30) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2009 03:45:29 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so888628yxm.3 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:45:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.17.65 with SMTP id r1mr637872iba.14.1238211929561; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 23:45:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215046d3b37dbb2046625ae02 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Twenty-Eight X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=S3DA2_lRoLk5bgFEmp8O49mTDn2CcQwuG2B3xGaLgyySZb4UILhV X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --002215046d3b37dbb2046625ae02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What's your favorite month of the year? Consider or write briefly about why this month is special. Picture your character during this month, his or her activities or reflections. Try to cover this in a story, poem or piece of art. -- Banners and icons for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php I did not get to update the list of entries today, but lots and lots can be found in the meantime, until I get to update it tomorrow: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php If you'd like your work added to the list, either drop me an email or comment with a link (or the whole post) on the relevant entry in the silwritersguild LJ community. Today's entry can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/138998.html Have fun and happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --002215046d3b37dbb2046625ae02 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What's your favorite month of the year? Consider or write briefly about= why this month is special.

Picture your character during this= month, his or her activities or reflections. Try to cover this in a story,= poem or piece of art.

--

Banners and icons for participants = can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners= .php

I did not get to update the list of entries today, but lot= s and lots can be found in the meantime, until I get to update it tomorrow:= http://w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php

If you'd like= your work added to the list, either drop me an email or comment with a lin= k (or the whole post) on the relevant entry in the silwritersguild LJ commu= nity. Today's entry can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/s= ilwritersguild/138998.html

Have fun and happy writing! :)
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_l= oremaster/
http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--002215046d3b37dbb2046625ae02-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2544 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65310 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2009 04:51:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2009 04:51:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f170.google.com) (209.85.217.170) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2009 04:51:34 -0000 X-Received: by gxk18 with SMTP id 18so2768699gxk.12 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:51:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.19.204 with SMTP id c12mr640358ibb.20.1238215893807; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:51:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532cf6c8175680466269aaf X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM Days 8 and 9 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hFbtls1wwrkl4Gs2lOGjxfwh3VFm6DcwoUbE5hyrOMIhGdodAgXP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532cf6c8175680466269aaf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These seem to be arriving in twos, so here are the next two entries in my B2MeM09 project. The project is called "Illuminations" and considers the early life of Pengolodh of Nevrast (soon to be Pengolodh of Gondolin), who is one of the fictional authors of *The Silmarillion.* Not much is known about Pengolodh, but his role in what we consider "canon" would have been enormous, so he's always fascinated me. Day 8:: Beauty and Ugliness: Truth Pengolodh meets again with Celebrimbor Feanarion in hopes of proving that Turgon's people do know *something* of what happened at the burning at Losgar. SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=460&chapter=8 My website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch8.php Day 9:: Anti-Heroes: The Mountains and the Sea Shortly after Fingolfin triumphs at the Dagor Aglareb, the men of Nevrast ride off to rid neighboring lands of any remaining Orcs. SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=460&chapter=9 My website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch9.php Thanks to all who are reading and reviewing so far! It might take me till May, but I'll get there! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532cf6c8175680466269aaf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These seem to be arriving in twos, so here are the next two entries in my B= 2MeM09 project.

The project is called "Illuminations" and = considers the early life of Pengolodh of Nevrast (soon to be Pengolodh of G= ondolin), who is one of the fictional authors of The Silmarillion. N= ot much is known about Pengolodh, but his role in what we consider "ca= non" would have been enormous, so he's always fascinated me.
<= br>Day 8:: Beauty and Ugliness: Truth

Pengolodh meets again with Cel= ebrimbor Feanarion in hopes of proving that Turgon's people do know = something of what happened at the burning at Losgar.

SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/hom= e/viewstory.php?sid=3D460&chapter=3D8
My website: http://www.themidh= avens.net/library/illuminations/ch8.php

Day 9:: Anti-Heroes: The= Mountains and the Sea

Shortly after Fingolfin triumphs at the Dagor= Aglareb, the men of Nevrast ride off to rid neighboring lands of any remai= ning Orcs.

SWG: http://www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D460&chapter=3D9=
My website: http://www.themidhavens.net/library/illuminations/ch9.php
Thanks to all who are reading and reviewing so far! It might take me = till May, but I'll get there! :)

Dawn

-- ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg
--00221532cf6c8175680466269aaf-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2545 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1037 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2009 06:02:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by 98.137.34.37 with QMQP; 29 Mar 2009 06:02:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f161.google.com) (209.85.217.161) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2009 06:02:36 -0000 X-Received: by gxk5 with SMTP id 5so3498618gxk.17 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:02:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.30.198 with SMTP id v6mr823164ibc.26.1238306555818; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 02:02:35 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325579e8261f30d04663bb604 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Twenty-Nine X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=RV7NZT7PqWWjM170V_FkGhTyph_jpvhCUz6Rvdocad5xwM6wBfG_ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325579e8261f30d04663bb604 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What if you have been falsely accused of something? Take that emotion and write a story or poem or create a piece of art what your character would do. What would he or she do: set the record straight or walk away or ...? -- Banners and icons for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php. Entries received as of mid-afternoon EST can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. I was out of town for most of the day but will get the rest caught up tomorrow! :) Just a reminder: if you would like your links added to the website, please either email them to me or leave a comment on the relevant entry in the silwritersguild LJ community. Today's entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/138998.html. Many, many thanks to all who have participated so far! May the muses smile upon you! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325579e8261f30d04663bb604 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What if you have been falsely accused of something? Take that emotion and w= rite a story or poem or create a piece of art what your character would do.= What would he or she do: set the record straight or walk away or ...?
<= br>--

Banners and icons for participants can be found here: http://w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php.

Entries = received as of mid-afternoon EST can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersgu= ild.org/b2mem2009.php. I was out of town for most of the day but will g= et the rest caught up tomorrow! :)

Just a reminder: if you would li= ke your links added to the website, please either email them to me or leave= a comment on the relevant entry in the silwritersguild LJ community. Today= 's entry is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/138998= .html.

Many, many thanks to all who have participated so far! M= ay the muses smile upon you! :)

Dawn

--
~oO= o~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--000325579e8261f30d04663bb604-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2546 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3167 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2009 00:39:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2009 00:39:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.242) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2009 00:39:55 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c37so1178495anc.26 for ; Sun, 29 Mar 2009 17:39:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.30.67 with SMTP id t3mr957645ibc.21.1238373591894; Sun, 29 Mar 2009 17:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:39:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255760b20b49f904664b52a1 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09:: Day Thirty: Mercurial Monday X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=f-vduVFPHIod2g9hWNgsmD5hiVCwXWbbscg33mC9QnHxciMvg9os X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0003255760b20b49f904664b52a1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mercurial Monday, we offer the choice of two prompts. Choose whichever inspires you most, and if you like them both, the second may be substituted for any other prompt in the challenge! It's our small way of making Mondays just a little bit more bearable. :) 1. Think of an experience when you realised that you suddenly understood an idea, a skill, or a concept you had been struggling with--it might be something related to a class that you took or a specific skill you were trying to perfect it. Translate this moment to your Middle-earth character and capture this in a story, poem or piece of art. -or- 2. Bob Dylan says "Don't criticize what you don't understand." Do you agree with this? Have you ever been criticized by someone who didn't understand you? Think or write briefly about this experience. Now write a story, poem or create an artwork where unfounded criticism plays a central part. --- I got the links list updated today, and everything that I have as of this posting can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. Banners and icons for participants can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php. Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0003255760b20b49f904664b52a1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mercurial Monday, we offer the choice of two prompts. Choose whichever i= nspires you most, and if you like them both, the second may be substituted = for any other prompt in the challenge! It's our small way of making Mon= days just a little bit more bearable. :)

1. Think of an experience = when you realised that you suddenly understood an idea, a skill, or a conce= pt you had been struggling with--it might be something related to a class t= hat you took or a specific skill you were trying to perfect it. Translate t= his moment to your Middle-earth character and capture this in a story, poem= or piece of art.

-or-

2. Bob Dylan says "Don't crit= icize what you don't understand." Do you agree with this? Have you= ever been criticized by someone who didn't understand you? Think or wr= ite briefly about this experience.

Now write a story, poem or = create an artwork where unfounded criticism plays a central part.

-= --

I got the links list updated today, and everything that I have as= of this posting can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem200= 9.php.

Banners and icons for participants can be found here: htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php.

Happ= y writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagu= nd
http://themid= havens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0003255760b20b49f904664b52a1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2547 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4321 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2009 01:59:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Mar 2009 01:59:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2009 01:59:28 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m38so1294944waf.8 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:59:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.167.3 with SMTP id p3mr3985932wae.92.1238464765277; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:59:24 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636417b8f66b5a30466608c0c From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Thirty-One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0-adg45YtASRG86Jif2RPjT91IvDappoekNyMWCW93qG8ApBrg7F X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636417b8f66b5a30466608c0c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a citizen of Middle-earth, one day you wake up with a choice: yesterday or tomorrow. Which would you pick and why? --- Well, it's the last official day of Back to Middle-earth Month this year. *wistful sigh* I would like to thank again Rhapsody, Oshun, and Angelica, who made the vast majority of the prompts and icons and without whom we would not have had an event at all. But thanks to *you* too: the readers/reviewers, writers, and artists who made this month such a success! We quite literally could not have done it without you, and I am still bowled over by the number and quality of the responses we received. While today is the last day of the month and so the official last day of B2MeM, please remember that you still have time to write for the prompts. Keep sending me your links and I'll keep posting them. If you're going for the thirty-one-day marathon, we ask that you try to finish by mid-April so that we can get the banners sent out, but otherwise, the prompts will stay on the site forever, so if you were inspired by something but just didn't have the time to do it justice, they'll be there waiting. As people reach the thirty-one mark, I'll be getting in touch about banners, but, if you do not hear from me or one of my co-mods a few days after posting your last entry, *please* drop us a line. We can always be reached through the SWG site at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, or I can be reached at my private email at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. And, for the last time, the daily reminders: All of the prompts and links to entries can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. (I did not get today's entries added but will do so tomorrow!) And icons and banners for participants are available here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php. Today's LJ entry for posting your links is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/139681.html Thank you again and happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636417b8f66b5a30466608c0c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a citizen of Middle-earth, one day you wake up with a choice: yesterday = or tomorrow. Which would you pick and why?

---

Well, it&= #39;s the last official day of Back to Middle-earth Month this year. *wistf= ul sigh* I would like to thank again Rhapsody, Oshun, and Angelica, who mad= e the vast majority of the prompts and icons and without whom we would not = have had an event at all.

But thanks to you too: the readers= /reviewers, writers, and artists who made this month such a success! We qui= te literally could not have done it without you, and I am still bowled over= by the number and quality of the responses we received.

While toda= y is the last day of the month and so the official last day of B2MeM, pleas= e remember that you still have time to write for the prompts. Keep sending = me your links and I'll keep posting them. If you're going for the t= hirty-one-day marathon, we ask that you try to finish by mid-April so that = we can get the banners sent out, but otherwise, the prompts will stay on th= e site forever, so if you were inspired by something but just didn't ha= ve the time to do it justice, they'll be there waiting.

As peop= le reach the thirty-one mark, I'll be getting in touch about banners, b= ut, if you do not hear from me or one of my co-mods a few days after postin= g your last entry, please drop us a line. We can always be reached t= hrough the SWG site at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, or I = can be reached at my private email at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com.
And, for the last time, the daily reminders: All of the prompts and links= to entries can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php= . (I did not get today's entries added but will do so tomorrow!)
And icons and banners for participants are available here: http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php.

Today's = LJ entry for posting your links is here: http://community.livejournal.com/sil= writersguild/139681.html

Thank you again and happy writing! :)<= br>
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/he= retic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636417b8f66b5a30466608c0c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2548 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42917 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2009 01:59:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Mar 2009 01:59:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f178.google.com) (209.85.217.178) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2009 01:59:48 -0000 X-Received: by gxk26 with SMTP id 26so7303596gxk.7 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:59:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.14.141 with SMTP id g13mr1237238iba.56.1238464742666; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:58:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532ce5c0db3680466608bbd X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM09: Day Thirty-One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=6wAzD-ZSGnnFIQVhcf7v8SvUz0fGyBo7uwI1qqJ2CjPanmjse4WM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532ce5c0db3680466608bbd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a citizen of Middle-earth, one day you wake up with a choice: yesterday or tomorrow. Which would you pick and why? --- Well, it's the last official day of Back to Middle-earth Month this year. *wistful sigh* I would like to thank again Rhapsody, Oshun, and Angelica, who made the vast majority of the prompts and icons and without whom we would not have had an event at all. But thanks to *you* too: the readers/reviewers, writers, and artists who made this month such a success! We quite literally could not have done it without you, and I am still bowled over by the number and quality of the responses we received. While today is the last day of the month and so the official last day of B2MeM, please remember that you still have time to write for the prompts. Keep sending me your links and I'll keep posting them. If you're going for the thirty-one-day marathon, we ask that you try to finish by mid-April so that we can get the banners sent out, but otherwise, the prompts will stay on the site forever, so if you were inspired by something but just didn't have the time to do it justice, they'll be there waiting. As people reach the thirty-one mark, I'll be getting in touch about banners, but, if you do not hear from me or one of my co-mods a few days after posting your last entry, *please* drop us a line. We can always be reached through the SWG site at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, or I can be reached at my private email at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. And, for the last time, the daily reminders: All of the prompts and links to entries can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php. (I did not get today's entries added but will do so tomorrow!) And icons and banners for participants are available here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php. Today's LJ entry for posting your links is here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/139681.html Thank you again and happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532ce5c0db3680466608bbd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a citizen of Middle-earth, one day you wake up with a choice: yesterday = or tomorrow. Which would you pick and why?

---

Well, it&= #39;s the last official day of Back to Middle-earth Month this year. *wistf= ul sigh* I would like to thank again Rhapsody, Oshun, and Angelica, who mad= e the vast majority of the prompts and icons and without whom we would not = have had an event at all.

But thanks to you too: the readers= /reviewers, writers, and artists who made this month such a success! We qui= te literally could not have done it without you, and I am still bowled over= by the number and quality of the responses we received.

While toda= y is the last day of the month and so the official last day of B2MeM, pleas= e remember that you still have time to write for the prompts. Keep sending = me your links and I'll keep posting them. If you're going for the t= hirty-one-day marathon, we ask that you try to finish by mid-April so that = we can get the banners sent out, but otherwise, the prompts will stay on th= e site forever, so if you were inspired by something but just didn't ha= ve the time to do it justice, they'll be there waiting.

As peop= le reach the thirty-one mark, I'll be getting in touch about banners, b= ut, if you do not hear from me or one of my co-mods a few days after postin= g your last entry, please drop us a line. We can always be reached t= hrough the SWG site at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, or I = can be reached at my private email at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com.
And, for the last time, the daily reminders: All of the prompts and links= to entries can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php= . (I did not get today's entries added but will do so tomorrow!)
And icons and banners for participants are available here: http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009/banners.php.

Today's = LJ entry for posting your links is here: http://community.livejournal.com/sil= writersguild/139681.html

Thank you again and happy writing! :)<= br>
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/he= retic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00221532ce5c0db3680466608bbd-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2549 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14049 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2009 22:55:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by 98.137.34.37 with QMQP; 1 Apr 2009 22:55:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f178.google.com) (209.85.217.178) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2009 22:55:30 -0000 X-Received: by gxk26 with SMTP id 26so657305gxk.23 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:55:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.19.204 with SMTP id c12mr1847145ibb.5.1238626527535; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:55:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532cf6c2ee3e80466863671 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: April 2009 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MzHefjiZTKo1rwNCoNUhUMEPV99MtW0KGITz80jvfR9ljBbTt4jq X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532cf6c2ee3e80466863671 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, The newsletter for April has been posted on our website and on our LJ community! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/april2009.php As far as news, we have lots of small FYIs and announcements: a minor addition/clarification to the Site Etiquette, a note regarding our site email account, an answer to the MFAQ of "Is my story 'Silmfic' enough for your site?", a wrap-up of B2MeM09, and an announcement regarding International Poetry Month this month. *whew* But there's fun stuff in there too. Oshun has written another excellent character bio for this site, this time on Amarie. The biography includes an exhaustive survey of what is said about Amarie in the texts, a discussion of her role in the story, and a synopsis of the linguistic issues surrounding her name. Darth Fingon has also contributed an article on Elven food, taking frequently asked questions about the dietary habits of Elves and answering them using Tolkien's linguistic sources. Ever wondered if Elves are vegetarians? Do they eat breakfast? Can they get fat? Those questions and more are answered this month! "The Plot Thickens ..." continues to be our current challenge, and we are revisiting "The Duel of Songs" for International Poetry Month; you can find these, as well as a new quote for the month, under Challenges! And finally, Around the World and Web contains news and announcements from other Tolkien groups that might be of interest to members of the SWG. Enjoy! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532cf6c2ee3e80466863671 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The newsletter for April has been posted on our website and= on our LJ community!

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/april= 2009.php

As far as news, we have lots of small FYIs and announc= ements: a minor addition/clarification to the Site Etiquette, a note regard= ing our site email account, an answer to the MFAQ of "Is my story '= ;Silmfic' enough for your site?", a wrap-up of B2MeM09, and an ann= ouncement regarding International Poetry Month this month. *whew*

B= ut there's fun stuff in there too. Oshun has written another excellent = character bio for this site, this time on Amarie. The biography includes an= exhaustive survey of what is said about Amarie in the texts, a discussion = of her role in the story, and a synopsis of the linguistic issues surroundi= ng her name.

Darth Fingon has also contributed an article on Elven = food, taking frequently asked questions about the dietary habits of Elves a= nd answering them using Tolkien's linguistic sources. Ever wondered if = Elves are vegetarians? Do they eat breakfast? Can they get fat? Those quest= ions and more are answered this month!

"The Plot Thickens ...&= quot; continues to be our current challenge, and we are revisiting "Th= e Duel of Songs" for International Poetry Month; you can find these, a= s well as a new quote for the month, under Challenges!

And finally,= Around the World and Web contains news and announcements from other Tolkie= n groups that might be of interest to members of the SWG.

Enjoy! :)<= br>
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/he= retic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00221532cf6c2ee3e80466863671-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2550 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50113 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2009 16:50:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by 98.137.34.37 with QMQP; 2 Apr 2009 16:50:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.188) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2009 16:50:28 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2009 16:50:19 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2009 16:50:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:50:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Props, kudos and accolades: in praise of the SWG Newsletter! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=qsmpX9LxxvqPEMxTl0UDJtbI2dAcn7PXIRZm6GxW0R-GNq0T77oFE2Sl X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 A round of applause here for those who put together and contribute to the S= WG Newsletter! I enjoy each and every one of these. Although I don't nec= essarily jump on each and every monthly challenge that's posted, these are = invariably interesting to read. I anticipate the bios just as much as I do = those written by a favorite columnist in a journal or magazine. Oshun and D= awn have prevented these from veering in to dry essays. Oshun in particular= interweaves commentary which does not detract from the factual analysis bu= t enlivens it. Darth Fingon's Linguistic Foolery is a most welcome additi= on to the SWG. I'm a real hack when it comes to languages in Tolkien's worl= d but I have always maintained that to understand the cultural nuances of h= is sub-creation, at least some degree of familiarity with his constructed l= anguages is vital. Darth's column is a valuable aid in this pursuit. So ha= t's off to the newsletter crew! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2551 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41122 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2009 16:59:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2009 16:59:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2009 16:59:44 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id r.cbe.3a07f1c2 (14457) for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 12:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 12:58:09 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1238691489" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Props, kudos and accolades: in praise of the S... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=6j6w9CrlMQ7NpRIqLRHaNRhv_tNonT4pdChbQ6_VWxuA2IAic8Zw X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1238691489 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I post links nearly every month to the newsletter and the character bios on my Live Journal and always get positive feedback. The past two months, people have also commented particularly on the "Lingusitic Foolery" articles. And the B2MeM responses this past month speak for themselves. I personally very much appreciated the notes this month on what constitutes Silm fic for purposes of posting stories in the archive. (Thanks for saying nice things about my character bios!) Oshun **************Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000003) -------------------------------1238691489 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I post links near= ly every month to the newsletter and the character bios on my Live Journal= and always get positive feedback. The past two months, people have also c= ommented particularly on the "Lingusitic Foolery" articles. And the B2MeM = responses this past month speak for themselves. I personally very much app= reciated the notes this month on what constitutes Silm fic for purposes of = posting stories in the archive. (Thanks for saying nice things about my c= haracter bios!)
 
Oshun

Worried about job security? Check out the 5 saf= est jobs in a recession.
-------------------------------1238691489-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2552 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57643 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2009 17:02:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2009 17:02:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f123.google.com) (209.85.221.123) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2009 17:02:18 -0000 X-Received: by qyk29 with SMTP id 29so1161063qyk.18 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.2.74 with SMTP id 10mr395523qai.259.1238691678425; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?192.168.1.102? (ool-457c028c.dyn.optonline.net [69.124.2.140]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm1377970qwg.44.2009.04.02.10.01.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 10:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <49D4EF58.2090707@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:01:12 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Props, kudos and accolades: in praise of the SWG Newsletter! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=y5D9gNUDsSBM888s5puqetSpMfiaQyR_DIQ2JeTAvsOlqn0eldQsHQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva What she said. Silmarillion is not my normal hunting ground, so the fact that I find the newsletter so amusing and informative is (I like to think, at least) telling. It is always chock full of good information, but more than that it is told in a matter that I can appreciate it. This month in particular, I want to commend the gang for their explanation of what is Silmfic. It's a question I find myself facing more and more, as a lot of my Ring War-era stuff deals with those characters dealing with the legacy of the Silm! (Case in point, I'm currently writing a piece on Gondorians discovering some source material on the Akallabeth.) Whether this and other similar pieces is appropriate for a Silm-centric cite is one that's been on my mind a lot lately. Your answers anticipate a lot of those questions, and while I still may come to you guys to be assured before I post, what you have written is a very good starting-point. And just a quick note - the bios are quickly becoming my reference of choice for all things Silmarillion. I actually recently pointed a fellow student to the one on Irmo when he was preparing a paper and wanted to make sure he was as correct as possible in an example he was developing. They really are well researched. As always, kudos to everyone who makes it happen. Marta pandemonium_213 wrote: > > > A round of applause here for those who put together and contribute to > the SWG Newsletter! I enjoy each and every one of these. > > Although I don't necessarily jump on each and every monthly challenge > that's posted, these are invariably interesting to read. I anticipate > the bios just as much as I do those written by a favorite columnist in a > journal or magazine. Oshun and Dawn have prevented these from veering in > to dry essays. Oshun in particular interweaves commentary which does not > detract from the factual analysis but enlivens it. > > Darth Fingon's Linguistic Foolery is a most welcome addition to the SWG. > I'm a real hack when it comes to languages in Tolkien's world but I have > always maintained that to understand the cultural nuances of his > sub-creation, at least some degree of familiarity with his constructed > languages is vital. Darth's column is a valuable aid in this pursuit. > > So hat's off to the newsletter crew! > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2553 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67013 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2009 17:04:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2009 17:04:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2009 17:04:03 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2009 17:03:45 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2009 17:03:45 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:03:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Props, kudos and accolades: in praise of the S... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=6EaP58jACZcRC2rmhaHWqVPHUQd1XBBJNQZ_4R59SnojHejIJfhdVb6o X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > = I personally very > much appreciated the notes this month on what consti= tutes Silm fic for purposes > of posting stories in the archive. > Oh= , yes! Those are a great addition! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2554 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36668 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2009 19:58:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2009 19:58:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.154) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2009 19:58:36 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 3so497096yxi.20 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:58:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.14.196 with SMTP id h4mr139249iba.15.1238702299385; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:58:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 15:58:19 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255762ca89906c046697da9a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Props, kudos and accolades: in praise of the SWG Newsletter! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rG67CqZ3hN1UeQriVow0nLyGub6xZgOIoHcBVQj5c_TYl0zWwqEa X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0003255762ca89906c046697da9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, Pandemonium! :) I have to say that this was a most pleasant surprise to find in my inbox! One of our goals at the start of the year was to make the newsletter something worth reading, so I hope that maybe this is coming to fruition! :) Oshun has been writing monthly biographies for us for well over a year now; I'm still not sure how she manages to tackle a new one every month; even the "thrown together" piece on Namo that I wrote a couple of months ago to fill in took the better part of a day to put together. And I, too, being clueless when it comes to JRRT's languages, learn quite a bit from Darth's columns. I'm going to use this as an opportunity as a shameless plug too: We can always use more columnists for the newsletter! If there is something that you think you could write about regularly (every 1-3 months) or do a series across several months, please let me know! If you want to write something but don't have any ideas ... well, I have plenty of those. ;) If only the frequency of my ideas correlated with the amount of time I have to do them, then I might get more done myself. :) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0003255762ca89906c046697da9a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you, Pandemonium! :) I have to say that this was a most pleasant= surprise to find in my inbox! One of our goals at the start of the year wa= s to make the newsletter something worth reading, so I hope that maybe this= is coming to fruition! :)=C2=A0Oshun has been writing monthly biographies = for us for well over a year now; I'm still not sure how she manages to = tackle a new one every month; even the "thrown together" piece on= Namo that I wrote a couple of months ago to fill in took the better part o= f a day to put together. And I, too, being clueless when it comes to JRRT&#= 39;s languages, learn quite a bit from Darth's columns.
=C2= =A0
I'm going to use this as an opportunity as a shameless p= lug too: We can always use more columnists for the newsletter! If there is = something that you think you could write about regularly (every 1-3 months)= or do a series across several months, please let me know! If you want to w= rite something but don't have any ideas ... well, I have plenty of thos= e. ;) If only the frequency of my ideas correlated with the amount of time = I have to do them, then I might get more done myself. :)
=C2=A0=
All the best,
=C2=A0
Dawn
--0003255762ca89906c046697da9a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2555 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43394 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2009 20:08:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by 98.137.34.37 with QMQP; 2 Apr 2009 20:08:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f112.google.com) (209.85.221.112) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2009 20:08:08 -0000 X-Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so1433014qyk.13 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:08:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.19.70 with SMTP id z6mr138972iba.24.1238702887257; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:08:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <49D4EF58.2090707@gmail.com> References: <49D4EF58.2090707@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:08:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532c75893c722046697fdbf X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Props, kudos and accolades: in praise of the SWG Newsletter! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hv7YlRssw8_vn2fDQUwtXnHxDEdCn2JCbihRSD2_Pi8tS02Tmuvw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00221532c75893c722046697fdbf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marta wrote: > This month in particular, I want to commend the gang for their > explanation of what is Silmfic. It's a question I find myself facing > more and more, as a lot of my Ring War-era stuff deals with those > characters dealing with the legacy of the Silm! This is, without a doubt, the MFAQ: Most Frequently Asked Question! :) And we heard it even more than usual in March due to B2MeM: People were writing more outside their comfort zones and weren't always sure what we would and would not accept on the archive. But I think 75% of the inquiries that Rhapsody and I get on the moderator email account probably ask this question. > Your > answers anticipate a lot of those questions, and while I still may come > to you guys to be assured before I post, what you have written is a very > good starting-point. It's always okay to ask us for help with this! :) We never mind (and there's the added perk of getting to preview new stories ... ;) I worry more about the people who aren't comfortable asking or who just assume that their work isn't eligible. I hear myths on occasion like "Silmfic is only First Age and earlier" (which would exclude many of our most talented writers, who deal heavily in the Second and Third Ages) and I hope we can maybe nip those in the bud before they stop people from even *considering* posting their work with us. We've discussed and Rhapsody is now working on an actual FAQ about it ... but it's amazing how difficult a question it is to answer when you sit down to try to draw somewhat tidy lines. :) Right now, I think our definition of "Silmfic" looks like a coloring-book page scribbled over by a two-year-old. Or an illuminated manuscript left out in the rain. Or-- Okay, it's time to go home, so I'll stop with the daft metaphors. :) Thank you again, Marta and Pandemonium, for your kind words! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00221532c75893c722046697fdbf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Marta wrote:
> This month in particular, I want to comme= nd the gang for their
> explanation of what is Silmfic. It's a q= uestion I find myself facing
> more and more, as a lot of my Ring Wa= r-era stuff deals with those
> characters dealing with the legacy o= f the Silm!
=C2=A0
This is, without a doubt, the MFAQ= : Most Frequently Asked Question! :) And we heard it even more than usual i= n March due to B2MeM: People were writing more outside their comfort zones = and weren't always sure what we would and would not accept on the archi= ve. But I think 75% of the inquiries that Rhapsody and I get on the moderat= or email account probably ask this question.
=C2=A0
= > Your
> answers anticipate a lot of those questions, and while I= still may come
> to you guys to be assured before I post, what you = have written is a very
> good starting-point.
=C2=A0
It's always okay to ask us for help with this! :) We never mind = (and there's the added perk of getting to preview new stories ... ;) I = worry more about the people who aren't comfortable asking or who just a= ssume that their work isn't eligible. I hear myths on occasion like &qu= ot;Silmfic is only First Age and earlier" (which would exclude many of= our most talented writers, who deal heavily in the Second and Third Ages) = and I hope we can maybe nip those in the bud before they stop people from e= ven considering posting their work with us.
=C2=A0
We've discussed and Rhapsody is now working on an actual FAQ ab= out it ... but it's amazing how difficult a question it is to answer wh= en you sit down to try to draw somewhat tidy lines. :) Right now, I think o= ur definition of "Silmfic" looks like a coloring-book page scribb= led over by a two-year-old. Or an illuminated manuscript left out in the ra= in. Or--
=C2=A0
Okay, it's time to go home, so I= 'll stop with the daft metaphors. :) Thank you again, Marta and Pandemo= nium, for your kind words! :)
=C2=A0
Dawn
= =C2=A0
--00221532c75893c722046697fdbf-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2556 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47992 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2009 20:36:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2009 20:36:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2009 20:36:12 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2009 20:35:46 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2009 20:35:46 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:35:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Props, kudos and accolades: in praise of the SWG Newsletter! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=36YVZPDj0UGYwHeXQVhUofBeIDsool-qm--Vk5rljZTy2idU2Nlg8RHf X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > I'm going to use this as an opportunity as a shameless plu= g too: We >can always use more columnists for the newsletter! If there is >= something that you think you could write about regularly (every 1-3 >months= ) or do a series across several months, please let me know! Get thee be be= hind me, temptress! ;^) I have to admit that I occasionally give thought t= o a science-based column similar to what "Olog-hai" a.k.a. Henry Gee (autho= r of The Science of Middle-earth) contributed for the Green Books section o= f the One Ring.net. Some of his speculative essays are outdated, and some = I think could use an entirely different interpretation, notably his opinion= on the orcs (Parthenogenic? Gimme a break!) However, this sort of thing is= more science fiction than science and perhaps too "explanatory" and reduct= ionist for many who prefer their magic unsullied by minds of metal and whee= ls. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2557 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47092 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2009 23:27:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2009 23:27:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2009 23:27:41 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2009 23:27:37 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2009 23:27:37 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:27:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Props, kudos and accolades: in praise of the SWG Newsletter! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=4vyUVWoEzmsQX3WOBEPMK06GEDtr3bRQ37LHtqWeuvZXHlU X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: "Some of his speculative essays are outdated, and some I = think could use an entirely different interpretation, notably his opinion o= n the orcs (Parthenogenic? Gimme a break!) However, this sort of thing is m= ore science fiction than science and perhaps too "explanatory" and reductio= nist for many who prefer their magic unsullied by minds of metal and wheels= ." Rolls on floor pounding fists! at your summary of parthenogenic orcs :D= Love the book, will dispute the ideas :P Re. Newsletter input: I wish I = felt I could commit to a 'one a month' essay. Life just don't roll like tha= t here... I feel far more comfortable with occasional requirements (even if= they should occasionally require long hours... Hey, I'm used to that :D )!= And I do like to get the newsletter - the style is amusing, there is usef= ul information and top-notch research. It's excellent all round! We don't s= ay that enough! Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2558 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96327 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2009 23:31:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2009 23:31:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2009 23:31:44 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2009 23:31:06 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2009 23:31:05 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:31:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Props, kudos and accolades: in praise of the SWG Newsletter! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=xpxgzz7z8t9NTzUWrbxBcgiuTs7gg-VPY8ndoa0HhyL05to X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 Eh! I would re-post without grammar errors and typos, but really... I'm goi= ng to bed! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2559 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3461 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2009 04:15:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2009 04:15:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.92.25) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Apr 2009 04:15:02 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 8so659381qwh.45 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:14:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.67.82 with SMTP id q18mr1080923qai.5.1238732099218; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?192.168.1.102? (ool-457c028c.dyn.optonline.net [69.124.2.140]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4sm1851134qwe.5.2009.04.02.21.14.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <49D58D40.5080901@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 00:14:56 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: OT: Tolkien Poems for National Poetry Month X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=NIYstcQ3dAYFwEaiypvicpbjm0xU70EACaMrnNTj38zbfDg4_K81HQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hey guys, Just wanted to let you know: over at my LJ, I have posted two videos related to Tolkien and poetry. First, I have JRRT himself reading a poem from "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil," and also Ian Holm singing "The Cat and the Fiddle" from the old BBC dramatization of LOTR where he played Frodo. While both of these poems are not really tied to the Silmarillion or the older ages, I thought they would be of interest to *all* Tolkien fans so I wanted to share them. You can find these videos at: http://telperion1.livejournal.com/308226.html Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2560 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26537 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2009 13:08:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2009 13:08:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.158) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Apr 2009 13:08:50 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 34so624479yxf.50 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:08:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.16.129 with SMTP id o1mr305650iba.9.1238764129611; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 06:08:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:08:49 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022152d7ddfe7f18a0466a63f90 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Props, kudos and accolades: in praise of the SWG Newsletter! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Y9xQbK_ttCJNmNkAJ0b-XqCXZs1xkcvnzi3PguwkqNKOLpwnUfY8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0022152d7ddfe7f18a0466a63f90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:35 PM, pandemonium_213 wrote: > Get thee be behind me, temptress! ;^) You know, this is like the second time in as many weeks as I've been called a temptress ... ;) > I have to admit that I occasionally give thought to a science-based column similar to what "Olog-hai" a.k.a. Henry Gee (author of The Science of Middle-earth) contributed for the Green Books section of the One Ring.net. *snip* However, this sort of thing is more science fiction than science and perhaps too "explanatory" and reductionist for many who prefer their magic unsullied by minds of metal and wheels. Well, if you ever want to do it, it'd be an awesome addition. :) And those who don't like that sort of thing aren't required to read it, and I think there'd be just as many who would find such information useful or interesting. I know when I started in fandom, people were trying to figure out Elven genetics, and I was always pondering how plants and critters survived in M-e between the times of the Lamps and the Sun (I know you have your own entirely canonical explanation for that one! ;) ... to me, it's just part of understanding how these myths fit into our own world, but I understand those that feel differently. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0022152d7ddfe7f18a0466a63f90 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:35 PM, pandemonium_213 <docbushwell@gmail.com> wr= ote:

> Get thee be behind me, temptress! ;^)

You know, thi= s is like the second time in as many weeks as I've been called a temptr= ess ... ;)

> I have to admit that I occasionally give thought to= a science-based column similar to what "Olog-hai" a.k.a. Henry G= ee (author of The Science of Middle-earth) contributed for the Green Books = section of the One Ring.net. *snip* However, this sort of thing is more sci= ence fiction than science and perhaps too "explanatory" and reduc= tionist for many who prefer their magic unsullied by minds of metal and whe= els.

Well, if you ever want to do it, it'd be an awesome additio= n. :) And those who don't like that sort of thing aren't required t= o read it, and I think there'd be just as many who would find such info= rmation useful or interesting. I know when I started in fandom, people were= trying to figure out Elven genetics, and I was always pondering how plants= and critters survived in M-e between the times of the Lamps and the Sun (I= know you have your own entirely canonical explanation for that one! ;) ...= to me, it's just part of understanding how these myths fit into our ow= n world, but I understand those that feel differently.

Dawn

= --
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org
--0022152d7ddfe7f18a0466a63f90-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2561 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8569 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2009 08:25:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2009 08:25:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2009 08:25:03 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1239611093; bh=D6gZCsYa7oojvmf1yColBw6cH5COjEoVmqogjEOM+IY=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=DwHhynWCqXTiW/Vn5Wu+L8mqUUOJaBaB4sdO59Ud/h3i3/L5XcEThaYdA79th6UhXonZtgdUf32H9swoyuxnTdVBlVZx4WIsycNMXqs4laLsb0ZXMTpKbcPEAaGuF+GN Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Apr 2009 08:24:53 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Apr 2009 08:24:53 -0000 X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38150 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2009 06:03:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2009 06:03:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.237) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2009 06:03:33 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Apr 2009 06:03:12 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Apr 2009 06:03:12 -0000 Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:03:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "lady_roisin12" Subject: Introducing Myself (I Hope This is OK) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=hxlEXHtbgWSpXDWJ7-MLZHgBXjOjZVeELwHPbsFvy91XaqfJXp_f54ZQz_1hXH8 X-Yahoo-Profile: lady_roisin12 X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 13 Apr 2009 08:24:52 -0000 Hello everyone, I forgot I never did this. I know some of you, and have f= ound SWG to be a wonderful, friendly, community. I thought I would introduc= e myself to those who don't know me, and say "hi" to my fellow Silm writers= and readers. A most grateful thanks to Dawn Felagund, Rhapsody, and Pandem= onium for helping me feel welcome. I look forward to getting to know more o= f you, and I have enjoyed reading the wonderful stories on the SWG archive.= Lady Roisin From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2562 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 73284 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2009 08:59:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2009 08:59:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n54d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (98.136.45.79) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2009 08:59:28 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1239613150; bh=x9t7Xd4E3WdhuhmACxTc9uyM6P4a8rUg3TUv7mAA9bo=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=fvuBW/8rpXO9P2QVn2ktxubftOMb4ow6PPi75/uARFzrzDBhu0Ac/g3yQ5CnSO5BuGMqetuX93xG6g4lc0gqLK6ABc6hl0wY/3Zo6vWmJoL2TffpDuiwVaqog6umVJ0j Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n54.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Apr 2009 08:59:10 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Apr 2009 08:59:10 -0000 X-Sender: nav_joyi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31723 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2009 08:29:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2009 08:29:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n36b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.150) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2009 08:29:02 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Apr 2009 08:28:57 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Apr 2009 08:28:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 08:28:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "nav" Subject: Re: Introducing Myself (I Hope This is OK) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=HBL57cTanedYz-0l54xOqCr-8T3iHINnJ0zqAGoNqmpSlbM X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 13 Apr 2009 08:59:09 -0000 Thank you, for telling us more about yourself. I have not introduced mysel= f either. What is there to say? I started with LOTR, but now I cannot read= a word in LOTR since I always feel Silmarillion is deeper. More raw. I r= amble a lot. So I generally keep away from the group messages since I tend = to crowd them. Thanks to Dawn and Rhapsody, Oshun and many more who made m= e feel at home on SWG. *bows out* From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2563 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20387 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2009 13:50:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2009 13:50:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.169) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2009 13:49:59 -0000 X-Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2060525wfa.13 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:49:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.124.1 with SMTP id w1mr623894wac.132.1239630582238; Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:49:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:49:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646c60081ce3804676ffce7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Introducing Myself (I Hope This is OK) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YU86-FDSjprSF3CTTELS10skQiYWa0icF-9teYJjG4MlZHGIBMbb X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163646c60081ce3804676ffce7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Lady Roisin, It feels a bit strange to welcome you to the group, since you've already posted several stories over at the archive ... but I'm glad that you've introduced yourself! You too, Nav! :) And, Nav, as for rambling? I think more than a few of us--including me--have that same problem, so please don't let it stop you from contributing, if you'd like! A belated welcome to you both! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163646c60081ce3804676ffce7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Lady Roisin,

It feels a bit strange to welcome you to the group,= since you've already posted several stories over at the archive ... bu= t I'm glad that you've introduced yourself! You too, Nav! :) And, N= av, as for rambling? I think more than a few of us--including me--have that= same problem, so please don't let it stop you from contributing, if yo= u'd like!

A belated welcome to you both!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--00163646c60081ce3804676ffce7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2564 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79171 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2009 00:33:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2009 00:33:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2009 00:33:20 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-349e3d9733c3; Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:31:47 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d48.4cdd35bb (42809) for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:31:39 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1239669099" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.138 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Introducing Myself (I Hope This is OK) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=yzKTpSZYpZbVrE4xBKfSj-oDDeqhaymcUWUx89NusDaLZ-59fA8i X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1239669099 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Lady Roisin. Yes, of course, I've seen you around and looking forward to seeing more of you. --Oshun **************Why pay full price? Check out this month's deals on the new AOL Shopping. (http://shopping.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntinstor00000001) -------------------------------1239669099 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Hi, Lady Roisin. = Yes, of course, I've seen you around and looking forward to seeing more of= you. --Oshun

Why pay full price? Check out this = month's deals on the new AOL Shopping.
-------------------------------1239669099-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2565 Return-Path: X-Sender: nav_joyi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52262 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2009 03:37:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2009 03:37:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n76.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (98.136.44.48) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2009 03:37:05 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n76.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2009 03:36:56 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.163] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2009 03:36:56 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2009 03:36:56 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 215563.71124.bm@omp408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 71761 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2009 03:36:56 -0000 Message-ID: <82113.71557.qm@web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: nCMs03QVM1k9KgZSmkyBTjJP3MK67yOGiDvmoNua0GCfgGqnA.nuerNJtYsD6msHtBgJxqX71EI356moWH.sPr8vypQuhEptbJrEfVDcUhci4LL0nRbquYCX8XVtq3eslCNaJNnWubhIoq383HaWrnafniqM1Q5VPsjRxF5NPDP0FfJQryPFhrTYzpVvV_4nmuaRY6CS948ptsIrerPkeJr7qxxgPOGw1UoLZbIu0OOfNTmU3CdwTAIVVHVYqyP08Sw_hPqwI2HWUzX_9cZhPSdLtPaBvfuUBfMDJ7ccZHvbOkW0XgfrVF8B9SVsGQ-- X-Received: from [59.93.0.104] by web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:36:55 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 References: Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:36:55 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-114939349-1239680215=:71557" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: nav Joy Subject: Introductions : nav_joyi (jde) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=e2h1BDtpW_dJQJ2ELPcn2LbKavYE4zQIQqx1DKeNY44RMIo X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi --0-114939349-1239680215=:71557 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Been posting at the Guild for a while no; under the name JDE. I crept into = lady Roisin's post yesterday and I think I confused Dawn with my name. :) = Hi to all, jde. From: "heartofoshun@aol.com" To: = SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 6:01= :39 AM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Introducing Myself (I Hope T= his is OK) Hi, Lady Roisin. Yes, of course, I've seen you around and l= ooking forward to seeing more of you. --Oshun ___________________________= _____ Why pay full price? Check out this month's deals on the new AOL Shopp= ing. --0-114939349-1239680215=:71557 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Been posting at the Guild for a while no; under th= e name JDE. I crept into lady Roisin's post yesterday and I think I confuse= d Dawn with my name. :)

Hi to all,=A0
jd= e.


From: "heartofoshun@a= ol.com"
= To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 6:01:39 AM=
Subject: Re: [Silmari= llionWritersGuild] Introducing Myself (I Hope This is OK)

=

Hi, Lady Roisin.= Yes, of course, I've seen you around and looking forward to seeing more o= f you. --Oshun

Why pay full price? Check out this m= onth's deals on the new AOL Shopping.

=

--0-114939349-1239680215=:71557-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2566 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14947 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2009 12:50:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2009 12:50:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2009 12:50:49 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2009 12:50:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2009 12:50:16 -0000 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:50:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "calenlassgreenleaf" Subject: Re: Introducing Myself (I Hope This is OK) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=NXS5roHKpmdNaXUDet0A5G67Nebi_pg_P-nNdK-qwQFNyjuFcnQCz39FVg X-Yahoo-Profile: calenlassgreenleaf *waves* Hello Roisin! I most lurk these days at the all the groups, but o= ccasionally I come out of my shell to say hello. :) ~Cal --- In Silmaril= lionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "lady_roisin12" wrote: >= > > Hello everyone, > > I forgot I never did this. I know some of you, a= nd have found SWG to be > a wonderful, friendly, community. I thought I wou= ld introduce myself to > those who don't know me, and say "hi" to my fellow= Silm writers and > readers. A most grateful thanks to Dawn Felagund, Rhaps= ody, and > Pandemonium for helping me feel welcome. I look forward to getti= ng to > know more of you, and I have enjoyed reading the wonderful stories = on > the SWG archive. > > Lady Roisin > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2567 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3317 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2009 14:07:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2009 14:07:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2009 14:07:58 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 46271 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2009 14:07:22 -0000 Message-ID: <977083.45955.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Bqkw7d0VM1l2o_JAMS3oErSNotvI4ihpSvHXLfI75hsaoXGTxKdsuCBuJcSz_JJ3XkaTw3Qk2l1mKz_v0QB8n3q.vfYw2U7c7umhQV6yAGW_CbDOlVDyKjtrDdjUTrRHLd1C.HDFs2kMQVX2gRQyHRhSatXgwsw.eobimhFnmMfeoIYjPbTWyTE5fvQpMb_9cff4fYASAN.GT497OGDfLI5BG5fcwKaN1bbf2UQAtfOAzzqrtc_t04ooavqD.hrQNsDjDepKYyjhrboe0dbfW0.pst_YIgU5YH6YwwQpnDzloBOjHko6_HTUszmJCTOpSRRGEdDnand3xOCDlhHmVlGy0UyfoKKLOFWw X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:07:21 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:07:21 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , SoA , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1440504519-1239718041=:45955" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: A Long Expected Contest: April/May's Topic-Last Words X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=TDiC4mdJ6z9vStRNytOeEEYBQ-JSakoDy60wMq_9Ie2ZD1GEdg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1440504519-1239718041=:45955 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Aragorn knelt beside him. Boromir opened his eyes and strove = to speak. At last slow words came. 'I tried to take the Ring from Frodo ' h= e said. 'I am sorry. I have paid.' His glance strayed to his fallen enemies= ; twenty at least lay there. 'They have gone: the Halflings: the Orcs have = taken them. I think they are not dead. Orcs bound them.' He paused and his = eyes closed wearily. After a moment he spoke again. 'Farewell, Aragorn! Go = to Minas Tirith and save my people! I have failed.' =C2=A0 'No!' said Arago= rn, taking his hand and kissing his brow. 'You have conquered. Few have gai= ned such a victory. Be at peace! Minas Tirith shall not fall!' =C2=A0 Borom= ir smiled. =C2=A0 'Which way did they go? Was Frodo there?' said Aragorn. = =C2=A0 But Boromir did not speak again. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Two Towers - Chap= ter 1, Departure of Boromir J.R.R. Tolkien =C2=A0 Since I am late posting t= his topic, this topic will be for April and May. The last two months we hav= e only had one entry so I'm praying this topic will inspire more of you to = write. The winner for March will be posted as soon as Viv has a chance to d= o the banner. Its my fault for the delay - I just sent the story to her tod= ay. *hangs head* =C2=A0 The topic for April/May is Last Words. Think of all= the many=C2=A0deaths during the War of the Ring or earlier wars from the S= ilmarillion. What were the last words spoken by those that=C2=A0died?=C2=A0= Or perhaps you choose to write about a departure of a different kind. What= did Elrond say to Celebrian when she sailed or the elves that did not answ= er the call of the Valar say to those that did? =C2=A0 It does not have to= be based on documented events or characters in the books and the words in = the theme do not have to be included in the fiction. Each writer has until = May 31st to turn in the story to alikatskorner@ rockfan.com.=C2=A0 Please i= nclude the proper formatting for LJ. If you have any questions how to do th= at, feel free to ask. Here=C2=A0are a few simple ones (assuming they won't = disappear when I hit send lol)- =C2=A0 bold - italics center =C2=A0 Good luck and happy writing! __ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_= Long_Expected_Contest/ http://community. livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c/ A Lon= g Awaited Contest(ALEC)is a contest for Tolkien fandom writers. It will inc= lude stories that are rated G-NC17 and can be Slash, Het, or General. In ot= her words - all genre's of the Tolkien fandom! This is a drama-free group= . Let=E2=80=99s act like adults, even if you aren=E2=80=99t. This is not th= e place to air your wanks with other people or groups. If you can=E2=80=99t= get along someone and ignore them, perhaps this is too much social interac= tion for you and you should rethink why you=E2=80=99re here. We=E2=80=99re = here to write and read good fan fiction and have fun. If you have come he= re to find stories to spork, flame, or MST, you=E2=80=99re in the wrong pla= ce. Use respect when dealing with each other and conduct yourself appropria= tely. You will be banned if you cannot follow the rules. If you have any pr= oblems with others, please bring it to the attention of the mod. * Each mo= nth a new topic/prompt/challenge will be posted in the Yahoo group and on t= he LJ on the first day of the month. * Writers have until the final day of= the month to write a fiction in response to the topic/challenge. The deadl= ine will be posted with the topic and we will post reminders as well. * Th= e story cannot be a WIP and must be less than 10,000 words unless part of t= he challenge/topic is the length, then those rules would apply. * The thre= e categories of the contest are Slash, Het, and General. Warnings must be i= ncluded if there are any. If its rated R or NC17 - there should be warnings= to explain why. SEE RULES IN THE FILE SECTION OF THE YAHOO GROUP OR ON TH= E LJ INFO PAGE! ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my reven= ge.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C2=A0 =C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0= =C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7= =C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 =C2=B0=C2= =BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- --0-1440504519-1239718041=:45955 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 

= Aragorn knelt beside him. Boromir opened his eyes and strove to speak. At l= ast slow words came. 'I tried to take the Ring from Frodo ' he said. 'I am = sorry. I have paid.' His glance strayed to his fallen enemies; twenty at le= ast lay there.

'They have gone: the Halflings: the Orcs have taken them. I think t= hey are not dead. Orcs bound them.' He paused and his eyes closed wearily. = After a moment he spoke again. 'Farewell, Aragorn! Go to Minas Tirith and s= ave my people! I have failed.'

 

'No!' said Aragorn, taking his hand and kissing his= brow. 'You have conquered. Few have gained such a victory. Be at peace! Mi= nas Tirith shall not fall!'

 

Boromir smiled.

 

'Which way did they go? Was Frodo there?' sai= d Aragorn.

 

But Boromir did not speak again.

 

 

The Two Towers - Chapter 1, Depa= rture of Boromir

J.R.R. Tolkien

 

<= FONT face=3Dverdana color=3D#000000>Since I am late posting this topic, thi= s topic will be for April and May. The last two months we have only had one= entry so I'm praying this topic will inspire more of you to write. The win= ner for March will be posted as soon as Viv has a chance to do the banner. = Its my fault for the delay - I just sent the story to her today. *hangs hea= d*

 

The topic for April/May is Last Words. Think of all the many deaths during the = War of the Ring or earlier wars from the Silmarillion. What were the last w= ords spoken by those that died?  Or perhaps you choose to write a= bout a departure of a different kind. What did Elrond say to Celebrian when= she sailed or the elves that did not answer the call of the Valar say to t= hose that did?

 

It does not have to be based on documented events or characters in the= books and the words in the theme do not have to be included in the fiction= . Each writer has until May 31st to turn in the story to alikatskorner@ rockfan.com.  Please i= nclude the proper formatting for LJ. If you have any questions how to do th= at, feel free to ask. Here are a few simple ones (assuming they won't = disappear when I hit send lol)-

  =

bold -

italics

center

 
Good luck and happy wr= iting!

--0-1440504519-1239718041=:45955-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2568 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65778 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2009 14:14:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2009 14:14:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.101) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2009 14:14:57 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 9877 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2009 14:14:34 -0000 Message-ID: <398207.8734.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: X8o5_csVM1nl3KKtchC9S7fyF0iXPmkzsbw9JGevoFEMiUCvkRXhQjEHbtcnpNcEUay0wDwSaij0f0DUQWUCFveG.LFOBMBU..0Ug62QB9I62WESThPKPuOxRgtBHrcNaEaPu273Is_9GTEEZa.OPZcXOC94rzp1UwkYg3Ex_2k1.PwIdbdZe92BPFVPHbsk099yJa8OBLbeYLxcMmguATFuI022xZ2yxSFVqM1zfLDRa7CUNKInBhZxx.YESfjYejnv_T35krbWum84uPBvRQpvf9RVDczO7t2v02MGoaXJXxfHVRVXKXrAJ3.ILR0UOmiLZXj9XvXU9cYZ_lwh.V4JsIQ5CsNMRGvQmDCTgxTWBKUc735hCG5oq4DkF40- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:14:34 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:14:34 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , SoA , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <977083.45955.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2003064590-1239718474=:8734" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: A Long Expected Contest: Last Words (part 2 lol) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=jSkZfqz773GQ_QPD0KjDyH0DwMu5RinQdUpksR0oUCe3EhTChg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-2003064590-1239718474=:8734 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For some reason - it cut off part of the message including the address to t= he group's yahoo site and LJ page - =C2=A0 Keep in mind - all entries MUST= be kept confidential until the winners are announced! =C2=A0 http://commun= ity.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_= Contest/ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 A Long Awaited Contest(ALEC)is a contest for Tolkie= n fandom writers. It will include stories that are rated G-NC17 and can be = Slash, Het, or General. In other words - all genres of the Tolkien fandom! = =C2=A0 This is a drama-free group. Let=E2=80=99s act like adults, even if= you aren=E2=80=99t. This is not the place to air your wanks with other peo= ple or groups. If you can=E2=80=99t get along someone and ignore them, perh= aps this is too much social interaction for you and you should rethink why = you=E2=80=99re here. We=E2=80=99re here to write and read good fan fiction = and have fun. If you have come here to find stories to spork, flame, or M= ST, you=E2=80=99re in the wrong place. Use respect when dealing with each o= ther and conduct yourself appropriately. You will be banned if you cannot f= ollow the rules. If you have any problems with others, please bring it to t= he attention of the mod. * Each month a new topic/prompt/challenge will be= posted in the Yahoo group and on the LJ on the first day of the month. * = Writers have until the final day of the month to write a fiction in respons= e to the topic/challenge. The deadline will be posted with the topic and we= will post reminders as well. * The story cannot be a WIP and must be less= than 10,000 words unless part of the challenge/topic is the length, then t= hose rules would apply. * The three categories of the contest are Slash, H= et, and General. Warnings must be included if there are any. If its rated R= or NC17 - there should be warnings to explain why. SEE RULES IN THE FILE = SECTION OF THE YAHOO GROUP OR ON THE LJ INFO PAGE! ~~**~~ I warn you, = if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C2=A0 =C2= =A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2= =A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 =C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*= =C2=A0 -:|:- --- On Tue, 4/14/09, Alassante7 wrote:= From: Alassante7 Subject: [open_scrolls] A Long Ex= pected Contest: April/May's Topic-Last Words To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild"= , "SoA" , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, lea= f_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, Ap= ril 14, 2009, 10:07 AM =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Aragorn knelt beside him.= Boromir opened his eyes and strove to speak. At last slow words came. 'I t= ried to take the Ring from Frodo ' he said. 'I am sorry. I have paid.' His = glance strayed to his fallen enemies; twenty at least lay there. 'They hav= e gone: the Halflings: the Orcs have taken them. I think they are not dead.= Orcs bound them.' He paused and his eyes closed wearily. After a moment he= spoke again. 'Farewell, Aragorn! Go to Minas Tirith and save my people! I = have failed.' =C2=A0 'No!' said Aragorn, taking his hand and kissing his = brow. 'You have conquered. Few have gained such a victory. Be at peace! Min= as Tirith shall not fall!' =C2=A0 Boromir smiled. =C2=A0 'Which way did= they go? Was Frodo there?' said Aragorn. =C2=A0 But Boromir did not spea= k again. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Two Towers - Chapter 1, Departure of Boromir = J.R.R. Tolkien =C2=A0 Since I am late posting this topic, this topic wil= l be for April and May. The last two months we have only had one entry so I= 'm praying this topic will inspire more of you to write. The winner for Mar= ch will be posted as soon as Viv has a chance to do the banner. Its my faul= t for the delay - I just sent the story to her today. *hangs head* =C2=A0 = The topic for April/May is Last Words. Think of all the many=C2=A0deaths d= uring the War of the Ring or earlier wars from the Silmarillion. What were = the last words spoken by those that=C2=A0died?=C2=A0 Or perhaps you choose = to write about a departure of a different kind. What did Elrond say to Cele= brian when she sailed or the elves that did not answer the call of the Vala= r say to those that did? =C2=A0 It does not have to be based on documente= d events or characters in the books and the words in the theme do not have = to be included in the fiction. Each writer has until May 31st to turn in th= e story to alikatskorner@ rockfan.com.=C2=A0 Please include the proper form= atting for LJ. If you have any questions how to do that, feel free to ask. = Here=C2=A0are a few simple ones (assuming they won't disappear when I hit s= end lol)- =C2=A0 bold - italics center
=C2=A0 Good lu= ck and happy writing! --0-2003064590-1239718474=:8734 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For some reason - it cut off part of the= message including the address to the group's yahoo site and LJ page -
 

Keep in mind - all entries MUST be kept confidential until the winner= s are announced!

 
 

Aragorn knelt beside him. Boromir opened his eye= s and strove to speak. At last slow words came. 'I tried to take the Ring f= rom Frodo ' he said. 'I am sorry. I have paid.' His glance strayed to his f= allen enemies; twenty at least lay there.

'They have gone: the Halflings: the Orcs have= taken them. I think they are not dead. Orcs bound them.' He paused and his= eyes closed wearily. After a moment he spoke again. 'Farewell, Aragorn! Go= to Minas Tirith and save my people! I have failed.'

 

<= FONT face=3Dverdana color=3D#0000ff>'No!' said Aragorn, taking his hand and= kissing his brow. 'You have conquered. Few have gained such a victory. Be = at peace! Minas Tirith shall not fall!'

 

Boromir smiled.

 

'Which way did they go? Was Frodo there?' said Aragor= n.

&n= bsp;

But Boromir di= d not speak again.

 

 

The Two Towers - Chapter 1, Departure of Boromir J.R.R. Tolkien

 

Since I am = late posting this topic, this topic will be for April and May. The last two= months we have only had one entry so I'm praying this topic will inspire m= ore of you to write. The winner for March will be posted as soon as Viv has= a chance to do the banner. Its my fault for the delay - I just sent the st= ory to her today. *hangs head*

 

The topic for April/May is Last Words. Think of all the many = deaths during the War of the Ring or earlier wars from the Silmarillion. Wh= at were the last words spoken by those that died?  Or perhaps you= choose to write about a departure of a different kind. What did Elrond say= to Celebrian when she sailed or the elves that did not answer the call of = the Valar say to those that did?

 

It does not have to be based on documented events or characters= in the books and the words in the theme do not have to be included in the = fiction. Each writer has until May 31st to turn in the story to alikatskorner@ rockfan.com.  P= lease include the proper formatting for LJ. If you have any questions how t= o do that, feel free to ask. Here are a few simple ones (assuming they= won't disappear when I hit send lol)-

 

bold -

= italics

center

 
Good luck and happy writing!


--0-2003064590-1239718474=:8734-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2569 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10574 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2009 14:21:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2009 14:21:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.96) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2009 14:21:41 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 81720 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2009 14:21:41 -0000 Message-ID: <637144.80912.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: E5EjSIsVM1kGRwp0TTuG4XMhk4YfzYu8R6CbY2ZTuBSM7bmS6mZkIUruaA4whZkpT0n.h4X154m7YmTTEdtnHfYMOihEijW_zBrL5WRWYgpa7QhPaG3Uq5JYpINSatNG6vl2UFxXztLGJctqF1Sh8s.6PVQ.vHsuOMiXJzZ_IXXQVkGal_LxoEthSVeJ5.yX.JQhEH5Q_HAdlalfjynL7tSJlXt3dx9HxqxObvHnXVsafPxvmiobzSDpHYdyz1gxx4yz9bkaOT9vmmllxNOWK5qNc7XD_idkz137FQklusblf43xnJQH1i5uFsPgIFETVjDpfBp9Ehum X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:21:41 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:21:41 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, SoA , open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1322630721-1239718901=:80912" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: *(&#$%# Yahoo! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=twAbjvrhEvyhPyHiS32XdT-0GAWakQjvYhTWKYUon6A0sfNCcw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1322630721-1239718901=:80912 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I swear - I'm not an idiot, its Yahoo! It won't let me post the last half f= or some reason - the rules and additional information is on the LJ site and= the yahoo group. *sigh* I'll post it without the http part and maybe it wi= ll work. =A0 community.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/ groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Lo= ng_Expected_Contest ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my= revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Ala= ssante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- = --0-1322630721-1239718901=:80912 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I swear - I'm not an idiot, its Yahoo! I= t won't let me post the last half for some reason - the rules and additiona= l information is on the LJ site and the yahoo group. *sigh* I'll post it wi= thout the http part and maybe it will work.
 
co= mmunity.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/
groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_E= xpected_Contest

~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.  <= /FONT>
JRR Tolkien
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: verdana"> 
 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))&nb= sp;  -:=A6:- =
      = ;  =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- <= /STRONG>
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0=
    -:=A6:-  &nbs= p; ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-
<= /DIV>

--0-1322630721-1239718901=:80912-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2570 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19442 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2009 14:57:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2009 14:57:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.244) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2009 14:57:12 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so2057503rvf.6 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:56:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.115.60.1 with SMTP id n1mr3706672wak.113.1239721014474; Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:56:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <82113.71557.qm@web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <82113.71557.qm@web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:56:54 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64af356b0378c0467850a2d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Introductions : nav_joyi (jde) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=oTcwXQvdjDBkCteXXtUBIFoyPTCmA7XQ1H7La6qrZ7RY88JmzDJu X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e64af356b0378c0467850a2d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:36 PM, nav Joy wrote: > I think I confused Dawn with my name. :) Lol, I knew who you were! :) I'm just not sure how you prefer to be called ... JDE, then? *makes mental note* A belated welcome to the Yahoo! list nonetheless. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e64af356b0378c0467850a2d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:36 PM, nav Joy <nav_joyi@yahoo.com> wrote:> I think I confused Dawn with my name. :)
Lol, I knew w= ho you were! :) I'm just not sure how you prefer to be called ... JDE, = then? *makes mental note*
=C2=A0
A belated welcome to= the Yahoo! list nonetheless. :)
=C2=A0
--0016e64af356b0378c0467850a2d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2571 Return-Path: X-Sender: nav_joyi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98184 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2009 15:08:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2009 15:08:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n35b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.149) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2009 15:08:51 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n35.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2009 15:08:33 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2009 15:08:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:08:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "nav" Subject: Re: Introductions : nav_joyi (jde) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=rUn27ElMrMuSx4MtEWq5oLP9hDJLEKXdqTmQNDpJOxEoKNY X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi *Smiles* My fault, I ended up with different names under which I write. An= ything goes, nav or jde.. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.co= m, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:3= 6 PM, nav Joy wrote: > > I think I confused Dawn with my nam= e. :) > Lol, I knew who you were! :) I'm just not sure how you prefer to be= called > ... JDE, then? *makes mental note* > > A belated welcome to the = Yahoo! list nonetheless. :) > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > ht= tp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2572 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48722 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2009 18:12:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2009 18:12:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.237) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2009 18:12:41 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2009 18:12:17 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2009 18:12:17 -0000 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:12:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "lady_roisin12" Subject: Re: Introducing Myself (I Hope This is OK) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=n38ZAUHxnImOaI5zA8xQdurKlaEblNI9qbMIhkrDh1dbNzfhglz1OjsuTZNG-4I X-Yahoo-Profile: lady_roisin12 Cal!! (((huggles)))) Come out of lurkdom girl and come play Silmarillion w= ith us! Thank you also to Dawn, HeartofOshun, and JDE for their kind welcom= es. :-) Yes, it probably does seem weird welcoming me after I posted serve= ral stories. But I thought it would be polite of me to intrudce myself. Som= etimes it heps to break the ice a bit. Um, about me, anyone who has read m= y stories knows I'm obsessed with the Numenoreans and Numenor. I run a rese= arch, discussion, and writing group for Numenorean stories. Thre's lots of = groups for the Elves and such, but I had yet to come across a group dedicat= ed specifically the Numenor and its descendants. I feel akaward avertising = on other people's groups (don't want to step on toes). But maybe I'll see a= bout getting a link to it in the newsletter. Thanks again for the kind wel= comes! Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "lady_roi= sin12" wrote: > > > Hello everyone, > > I forgot I never d= id this. I know some of you, and have found SWG to be > a wonderful, friend= ly, community. I thought I would introduce myself to > those who don't know= me, and say "hi" to my fellow Silm writers and > readers. A most grateful = thanks to Dawn Felagund, Rhapsody, and > Pandemonium for helping me feel we= lcome. I look forward to getting to > know more of you, and I have enjoyed = reading the wonderful stories on > the SWG archive. > > Lady Roisin > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2573 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93198 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2009 19:48:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2009 19:48:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.248) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2009 19:48:44 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id f25so2402655rvb.2 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:47:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.115.73.13 with SMTP id a13mr3863752wal.193.1239738463495; Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:47:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:47:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646c35ebb28850467891a66 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Introducing Myself (I Hope This is OK) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=060NT_NhHvuyrnU1L7VfOruSZSXxNzkNJsy_utIKiiHvfYzkXFBl X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163646c35ebb28850467891a66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Lady R, Please feel free to share a link to your group here! :) We always welcome links to other Tolkien-related groups and events here. (I think I have an email moldering in my inbox where I intended to tell you just that ... sorry ... :( ) Also, I'd be happy to link you in the newsletter; could you just send me a short write-up (~100 words) off-list please? :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163646c35ebb28850467891a66 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Lady R,
=C2=A0
Please feel free to share a l= ink to your group here! :) We always welcome links to other Tolkien-related= groups and events here. (I think I have an email moldering in my inbox whe= re I intended to tell you just that ... sorry ... :( ) Also, I'd be hap= py to link you in the newsletter; could you just send me a short write-up (= ~100 words) off-list please? :)
=C2=A0
--00163646c35ebb28850467891a66-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2574 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99611 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2009 20:05:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2009 20:05:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2009 20:05:30 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2009 20:04:46 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2009 20:04:46 -0000 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:04:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "lady_roisin12" Subject: Re: Introducing Myself (I Hope This is OK) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=KC7_VVxXN4D141JkcDOkiMOLry3fQwpX1pMTe7toBcQRFWNbT1vGWP_hiUPzQNQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lady_roisin12 Sure thing, Dawn. I will do that. Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuil= d@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, Lady R, = > > Please feel free to share a link to your group here! :) We always welco= me > links to other Tolkien-related groups and events here. (I think I have= an > email moldering in my inbox where I intended to tell you just that ..= . sorry > ... :( ) Also, I'd be happy to link you in the newsletter; could = you just > send me a short write-up (~100 words) off-list please? :) > > Da= wn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremas= ter/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2575 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29618 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2009 16:00:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2009 16:00:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2009 16:00:52 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2009 16:00:08 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2009 16:00:08 -0000 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:00:06 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Introducing Myself (I Hope This is OK) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=dZ8FshkF2nrfVFlVdrVEcbYYaE23Qg0AVDzPU0tI1uANwMR9GU0n6wM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav" wrote= : Hi Lady Roisin and JDE, I am sorry for the belated welcome, but for som= e reason laundry keeps on piling up here and of course my Noldor muses have= fled the scene ;) > Thank you, for telling us more about yourself. I have= not > introduced myself either. > > What is there to say? I started with= LOTR, but now I cannot read a > word in LOTR since I always feel Silmaril= lion is deeper. More raw. > > I ramble a lot. So I generally keep away fr= om the group messages > since I tend to crowd them. Oh rambling: loads of= fun, but have a great time here at the SWG. > Thanks to Dawn and Rhapsody= , Oshun and many more who made me feel > at home on SWG. Any time, if you= or Lady Roison *waves* stumble upon enigma's or problems, let us know! We'= re happy to help. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2576 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48345 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2009 21:46:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2009 21:46:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.126) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2009 21:46:47 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Apr 2009 21:46:26 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Apr 2009 21:46:26 -0000 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:46:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "lady_roisin12" Subject: Re: Introducing Myself (I Hope This is OK) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=DsyoWa5Qar-_as4RctafOMgPx-INaCTZGkNoUQdk65jfNaQLhL8ag_iKjZWa4KY X-Yahoo-Profile: lady_roisin12 Rhaps!!!! (((huggles tight))) I understand about the laundry thing! I may = not have kids, but I have a nurse for a husband, so you better believe the = laundry builds up. Hooray for our nice high efficiancy washer and dryer com= bo! The kittens enjoy watching the clothes spin around, it's rather humorou= s! Thanks for the welcome! Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogr= oups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > > --- In Silmarilli= onWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav" nav_joyi@ wrote: > Hi Lady Roisin and= JDE, > > I am sorry for the belated welcome, but for some reason laundry k= eeps on piling up here and of course my Noldor muses have fled the scene ;)= > > > Thank you, for telling us more about yourself. I have not > > introd= uced myself either. > > > > What is there to say? I started with LOTR, but = now I cannot read a > > word in LOTR since I always feel Silmarillion is de= eper. More raw. > > > > I ramble a lot. So I generally keep away from the g= roup messages > > since I tend to crowd them. > > Oh rambling: loads of fun= , but have a great time here at the SWG. > > > Thanks to Dawn and Rhapsody,= Oshun and many more who made me feel > > at home on SWG. > > Any time, if = you or Lady Roison *waves* stumble upon enigma's or problems, let us know! = We're happy to help. > > Rhapsody > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2577 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59174 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2009 15:33:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2009 15:33:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.180) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2009 15:33:12 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m28so2931609wag.1 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2009 08:33:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.115.111.3 with SMTP id o3mr3386471wam.60.1240241591703; Mon, 20 Apr 2009 08:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:33:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636417e9b82577f0467fe3ffe X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Somewhat OT: HTML/CSS Classes for Writers and Artists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mFeD0x3u65GWdAQuaipCyEp5O1aiPtw9kzSVYQUJeIxvaHbx1kv2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636417e9b82577f0467fe3ffe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, I will be teaching an online class about web design beginning 1 May 2009. The class is aimed at writers and artisans who want to build personal homepages to show off their stories or their artwork, so I wanted to pass along word to this group since we have quite a few of both in the SWG. :) The course will begin with basic HTML, move into building webpages using HTML, and conclude with CSS. The goal is that anyone who takes the course should have built or be able to build a personal homepage for herself or himself by the end of the course. You do not need to know anything about web design to take the class; the only prerequisites are computer basics like using a keyboard and mouse, copying and pasting, saving files, navigating from page to page on the Internet, and so on. If you're reading this message, then you probably know all that you need to know to get started. :) If you're interested, here is the web address where you can join the class: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/artistry_of_web_design/ And if you have any questions, please contact me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636417e9b82577f0467fe3ffe Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,
=C2=A0
I will be teaching an online cla= ss about web design beginning 1 May 2009. The class is aimed at writers and= artisans who want to build personal homepages to show off their stories or= their artwork, so I wanted to pass along word to this group since we have = quite a few of both in the SWG. :)
=C2=A0
The course= will begin with basic HTML, move into building webpages using HTML, and co= nclude with CSS. The goal is that anyone who takes the course should have b= uilt or be able to build a personal homepage for herself or himself by the = end of the course. You do not need to know anything about web design to tak= e the class; the only prerequisites are computer basics like using a keyboa= rd and mouse, copying and pasting, saving files, navigating from page to pa= ge on the Internet, and so on. If you're reading this message, then you= probably know all that you need to know to get started. :)
=C2= =A0
If you're interested, here is the web address where you = can join the class:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
And if you ha= ve any questions, please contact me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT c= om.
=C2=A0
All the best,
=C2=A0
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lo= remaster/
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636417e9b82577f0467fe3ffe-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2578 Return-Path: X-Sender: nav_joyi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36485 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2009 09:38:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2009 09:38:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n56.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (98.136.44.52) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2009 09:38:53 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n56.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2009 09:38:49 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.84.102] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2009 09:38:49 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp206.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2009 09:38:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 982209.42946.bm@omp206.mail.sp1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 61583 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Apr 2009 09:38:48 -0000 Message-ID: <816287.57640.qm@web44914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: NFDwxH0VM1lRu3wm7h0ozJpieyrcoSbDq3.n5_ebc.CYobMQaLonLiurHXBFyj0PgqMnHx1a.VGAi4ZiLX.JxylKx2Kgmuz3Kl0KD4g0Fxl3jb5EETuBBAQu3COPWw9infLFb0K1sASQCMjgxb5GPO6TTFUhkBkcCVpujis3SrgI4tcv5TRMXjZmfiKF888__Ffz0oJ4o3DtZa1rF8eGF.vMGUfmnk1B89_elsj0Exdw8tECnNTW0fs3a7qJUxeoLUX8oe2KWfkEi3WbS15wcLBv00AR5gNurH0cdUDD_LaVzIFCtowGFpFkxHllwkrXINQZOCLI X-Received: from [59.93.4.0] by web44914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Apr 2009 02:38:48 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 References: Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 02:38:48 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1612245486-1240306728=:57640" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: nav Joy Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Somewhat OT: HTML/CSS Classes for Writers and Artists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=IxqiJTQtI_xiVKcgIqrqp90uV4uhUHgP0PG3rNZ-CN3tbyo X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi --0-1612245486-1240306728=:57640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WOW! I wish you the best with it, how on earth are you going to balance th= ings? I am drowned with my semester exams right now, else would have jumped= in. Sadly I am reduced to cheering you on from the sidelines all the best,= jdav ________________________________ From: Dawn Felagund To: SWG Sent: Monday= , April 20, 2009 9:03:11 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Somewhat OT= : HTML/CSS Classes for Writers and Artists Hi, all, I will be teachi= ng an online class about web design beginning 1 May 2009. The class is aime= d at writers and artisans who want to build personal homepages to show off = their stories or their artwork, so I wanted to pass along word to this grou= p since we have quite a few of both in the SWG. :) The course will begin = with basic HTML, move into building webpages using HTML, and conclude with = CSS. The goal is that anyone who takes the course should have built or be a= ble to build a personal homepage for herself or himself by the end of the c= ourse. You do not need to know anything about web design to take the class;= the only prerequisites are computer basics like using a keyboard and mouse= , copying and pasting, saving files, navigating from page to page on the In= ternet, and so on. If you're reading this message, then you probably know a= ll that you need to know to get started. :) If you're interested, here is= the web address where you can join the class: http://tech. groups.yahoo.= com/group/ artistry_ of_web_design/ And if you have any questions, pleas= e contact me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. All the best, D= awn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0-1612245486-1240306728=:57640 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WOW!

I wish you the best = with it, how on earth are you going to balance things? I am drowned with my= semester exams right now, else would have jumped in. Sadly I am reduced to= cheering you on from the sidelines
all the best,
jdav<= /div>

From: Dawn Felagund
To: SWG &l= t;SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 9:03:11 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] = Somewhat OT: HTML/CSS Classes for Writers and Artists

=

Hi, all,
=
=A0
I will be teaching an online class about web design beg= inning 1 May 2009. The class is aimed at writers and artisans who want to b= uild personal homepages to show off their stories or their artwork, so I wa= nted to pass along word to this group since we have quite a few of both in = the SWG. :)
=A0
The course will begin with basic HTM= L, move into building webpages using HTML, and conclude with CSS. The goal = is that anyone who takes the course should have built or be able to build a= personal homepage for herself or himself by the end of the course. You do = not need to know anything about web design to take the class; the only prer= equisites are computer basics like using a keyboard and mouse, copying and = pasting, saving files, navigating from page to page on the Internet, and so= on. If you're reading this message, then you probably know all that you ne= ed to know to get started. :)
=A0
If you're interest= ed, here is the web address where you can join the class:
=A0
=A0
And if you have a= ny questions, please contact me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com.<= /div>
=A0
All the best,
=A0

--0-1612245486-1240306728=:57640-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2579 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64363 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2009 14:51:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2009 14:51:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.176) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2009 14:51:59 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m34so1191885wag.25 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:51:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.103.1 with SMTP id a1mr3995045wac.218.1240325501768; Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:51:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <816287.57640.qm@web44914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <816287.57640.qm@web44914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:51:41 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636457a9af057ab046811c847 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Somewhat OT: HTML/CSS Classes for Writers and Artists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=SUv06NaXXfziiFzsdrJD2UF2dAxmiJDtc1hEYS0YHqkXP32Bbeey X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636457a9af057ab046811c847 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 5:38 AM, nav Joy wrote: > I wish you the best with it, how on earth are you going to balance things? Lol, I conveniently waited till I was done with my own school year before I started. ;) When you're done with school, if you want the tutorials, just drop me an email; I might also run it again sometime, if it works out well. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636457a9af057ab046811c847 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 5:38 AM, nav Joy <nav_joyi@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I wish you the best with it, how on earth are you going to bal= ance things?
=C2=A0
Lol, I conveniently waited till I= was done with my own school year before I started. ;) When you're done= with school, if you want the tutorials, just drop me an email; I might als= o run it again sometime, if it works out well.
=C2=A0
Dawn



--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremas= ter/
http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636457a9af057ab046811c847-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2580 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63054 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2009 01:02:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2009 01:02:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2009 01:02:55 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so220081waf.7 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:02:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.115.89.1 with SMTP id r1mr4273938wal.84.1240362165108; Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:02:45 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Cc: Bobby Walls-Thumma Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b91e83e81b804681a52a2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Weapons and Armor of Middle-earth Reference X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ky_wxzyaPagR7W0CrmLVPs03GlM3hEIjLzfo4LhkY4j30_BeIR-O X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016363b91e83e81b804681a52a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, everyone, Some of you might recall that, back in the autumn, I asked for help perusing the texts for references to armor and weapons because my husband (who is working on a Masters degree in ancient and medieval history with a focus on the warfare of those time periods) was interested in putting together a reference for us about weapons, armor, and warfare of Middle-earth. He has been in school for the months since, and so we haven't been able to work more on it, but his semester is drawing to a close, and he and I discussed tonight how we'd like to put it together. Since we originally had the idea, we've started doing columns in the newsletter, and so he's decided that he would prefer to write a regular column than an enormous essay. And, to get him started, he would like to know some questions or information that people would like to have about weapons and armor of Middle-earth. We're hoping he'll be able to post his first column in June; he's very excited to start working on it! (I had to talk him out of May since he *is* still working on grad school coursework. ;) So I'd be interested to hear the questions that you all have pondered over the years that relate to weapons and armor and warfare, things that you might have considered (for example) while putting together stories or just wondered about. Hopefully, this will give him a good starting point for how to approach the topic since, as he pointed out, he could quite literally write a book about it, and that can be overwhelming to one whose strongest connection to early Middle-earth comes via his geeky wife. :) All the best, Dawn P.S.--And thanks again go to all who have helped so far with this project--and that is many people! It is at last coming to fruition, and I hope you will feel your efforts were worthwhile. :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016363b91e83e81b804681a52a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Some of you might recall that, back in the autumn, I a= sked for help perusing the texts for references to armor and weapons becaus= e my husband (who is working on a Masters degree in ancient and medieval hi= story with a focus on the warfare of those time periods) was interested in = putting together a reference for us about weapons, armor, and warfare of Mi= ddle-earth. He has been in school for the months since, and so we haven'= ;t been able to work more on it, but his semester is drawing to a close, an= d he and I discussed tonight how we'd like to put it together.

= Since we originally had the idea, we've started doing columns in the ne= wsletter, and so he's decided that he would prefer to write a regular c= olumn than an enormous essay. And, to get him started, he would like to kno= w some questions or information that people would like to have about weapon= s and armor of Middle-earth. We're hoping he'll be able to post his= first column in June; he's very excited to start working on it! (I had= to talk him out of May since he is still working on grad school cou= rsework. ;)

So I'd be interested to hear the questions that you= all have pondered over the years that relate to weapons and armor and warf= are, things that you might have considered (for example) while putting toge= ther stories or just wondered about. Hopefully, this will give him a good s= tarting point for how to approach the topic since, as he pointed out, he co= uld quite literally write a book about it, and that can be overwhelming to = one whose strongest connection to early Middle-earth comes via his geeky wi= fe. :)

All the best,

Dawn

P.S.--And thanks again go t= o all who have helped so far with this project--and that is many people! It= is at last coming to fruition, and I hope you will feel your efforts were = worthwhile. :)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/= heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016363b91e83e81b804681a52a2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2581 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86482 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2009 01:06:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2009 01:06:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.236) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2009 01:06:39 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f9so2160338rvb.21 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.198.5 with SMTP id v5mr4270144waf.131.1240362338683; Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:05:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b7e9c970ae104681a5cf6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: A Poll about Maglor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=884511fqbODSFwyDiUwwiVUiHWRUzU1Q0z9_QbNcOKbUUWaQ_NEk X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016363b7e9c970ae104681a5cf6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, With Back to Middle-earth Month behind me, it is time for me to come out of hiding and get back to my own research and writing. :) A few months back, I received a request for an essay about Maglor, and I'm getting ready to start working on it. As part of it, I am seeking information on fan perceptions of his character, so I have set up a poll on LJ: http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/232173.html I appreciate any and all replies folks care to give. If you don't have an LJ account, do feel free to leave your replies in a comment; anonymous comments are always welcome! :) Many thanks, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016363b7e9c970ae104681a5cf6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

With Back to Middle-earth Month behind me, it is time for m= e to come out of hiding and get back to my own research and writing. :) A f= ew months back, I received a request for an essay about Maglor, and I'm= getting ready to start working on it. As part of it, I am seeking informat= ion on fan perceptions of his character, so I have set up a poll on LJ:
=
http://da= wn-felagund.livejournal.com/232173.html

I appreciate any and all= replies folks care to give. If you don't have an LJ account, do feel f= ree to leave your replies in a comment; anonymous comments are always welco= me! :)

Many thanks,

Dawn

--
~oOo~Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
= --0016363b7e9c970ae104681a5cf6-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2582 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72301 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2009 14:04:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2009 14:04:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web38508.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.125.54) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2009 14:04:06 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 53635 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Apr 2009 14:03:52 -0000 Message-ID: <630087.52320.qm@web38508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: RTAsSw0VM1lGOVIt9CHl46MuzI9TxROnEqQVe3WPiN_.SmNWStZ.2eR1JmOVIbDadTC5eDIzBTIQAltwoaixkVM16H13KK1JTQQM3E2Rd_0s5VxP.8xYOwsY5JAjYgUUdR8NDhUHq5aFjIO6vHh53VNFvitgczN0F4Z2PJ7nPQC6Pa0l3dGWb7kgle1TxsKMCXRJu3x4cWlieh_AkdelTV48n.xahTvTpFWymOdKAUASidqheaSmmUkdSY_svOVobRkkVbahiaEAJvZg7s_MI18.fSZQl.3S42NCzSaQ7pwktYyq4iXkDIMc79Czv9ohyZXeWV1KBExJdA-- X-Received: from [190.191.96.88] by web38508.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:03:52 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 References: Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:03:52 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1761139880-1240409032=:52320" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Angelica Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Weapons and Armor of Middle-earth Reference X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=8ucDSZSvmCEpZwWuUpKQEEnXQzOjRhhZ5ZlLCV8orix4d9ke7jV6glgd X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --0-1761139880-1240409032=:52320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The first question that came to my mind was: cavalry or infantry? What wa= s the most recurrent according to the sources? I tend to imagine Elves on h= orseback and Men as foot soldiers but I feel it's just my feudal / social h= istory bias. Another question that just came up is: what about=A0recruitme= nt? Is there any information? People in arms or professionals? Thanks a lo= t to Bobby for taking the time to write about these issues. All the best An= gelica ________________________________ From: Dawn Felagund To: SWG Cc: Bobby Wa= lls-Thumma Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:02:= 45 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Weapons and Armor of Middle-earth= Reference Hi, everyone, Some of you might recall that, back in the a= utumn, I asked for help perusing the texts for references to armor and weap= ons because my husband (who is working on a Masters degree in ancient and m= edieval history with a focus on the warfare of those time periods) was inte= rested in putting together a reference for us about weapons, armor, and war= fare of Middle-earth. He has been in school for the months since, and so we= haven't been able to work more on it, but his semester is drawing to a clo= se, and he and I discussed tonight how we'd like to put it together. Since= we originally had the idea, we've started doing columns in the newsletter,= and so he's decided that he would prefer to write a regular column than an= enormous essay. And, to get him started, he would like to know some questi= ons or information that people would like to have about weapons and armor o= f Middle-earth. We're hoping he'll be able to post his first column in June= ; he's very excited to start working on it! (I had to talk him out of May s= ince he is still working on grad school coursework. ;) So I'd be intereste= d to hear the questions that you all have pondered over the years that rela= te to weapons and armor and warfare, things that you might have considered = (for example) while putting together stories or just wondered about. Hopefu= lly, this will give him a good starting point for how to approach the topic= since, as he pointed out, he could quite literally write a book about it, = and that can be overwhelming to one whose strongest connection to early Mid= dle-earth comes via his geeky wife. :) All the best, Dawn P.S.--And than= ks again go to all who have helped so far with this project--and that is ma= ny people! It is at last coming to fruition, and I hope you will feel your = efforts were worthwhile. :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens .n= et/heretic_ loremaster/ http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org = --0-1761139880-1240409032=:52320 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
The first question that came to my mind was: = cavalry or infantry? What was the most recurrent according to the sources? = I tend to imagine Elves on horseback and Men as foot soldiers but I feel it= 's just my feudal / social history bias.
Another question that = just came up is: what about recruitment? Is there any information? Peo= ple in arms or professionals?

Thanks a lot to Bobby for taking the t= ime to write about these issues.
All the best
Angelica
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SWG
Cc: Bobby Walls-Thumma =
Sent: Tuesday, April 21= , 2009 10:02:45 PM
Subject:<= /B> [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Weapons and Armor of Middle-earth Reference<= BR>

Hi, everyone,

Some of you mig= ht recall that, back in the autumn, I asked for help perusing the texts for= references to armor and weapons because my husband (who is working on a Ma= sters degree in ancient and medieval history with a focus on the warfare of= those time periods) was interested in putting together a reference for us = about weapons, armor, and warfare of Middle-earth. He has been in school fo= r the months since, and so we haven't been able to work more on it, but his= semester is drawing to a close, and he and I discussed tonight how we'd li= ke to put it together.

Since we originally had the idea, we've start= ed doing columns in the newsletter, and so he's decided that he would prefe= r to write a regular column than an enormous essay. And, to get him started= , he would like to know some questions or information that people would lik= e to have about weapons and armor of Middle-earth. We're hoping he'll be ab= le to post his first column in June; he's very excited to start working on= it! (I had to talk him out of May since he is still working on grad= school coursework. ;)

So I'd be interested to hear the questions th= at you all have pondered over the years that relate to weapons and armor an= d warfare, things that you might have considered (for example) while puttin= g together stories or just wondered about. Hopefully, this will give him a = good starting point for how to approach the topic since, as he pointed out,= he could quite literally write a book about it, and that can be overwhelmi= ng to one whose strongest connection to early Middle-earth comes via his ge= eky wife. :)

All the best,

Dawn

P.S.--And thanks again= go to all who have helped so far with this project--and that is many peopl= e! It is at last coming to fruition, and I hope you will feel your efforts = were worthwhile. :)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
h= ttp://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org


= --0-1761139880-1240409032=:52320-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2583 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89001 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2009 13:53:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2009 13:53:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.96) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2009 13:53:07 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 27570 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2009 13:52:07 -0000 Message-ID: <212843.25517.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: IWRTwmkVM1kxUuXp1g1UZSuws0HsEa5pMdT7CpFD7rKC65T4OGyScC3S.KGH4NlfSxBadX2kCiyeGIKdTEk8ztaOa58t79wxcstJbYK0Ijajtgd_6RbSkmjn9aJlnjjXN82I7dvwHR9SfT7TKrP12DgOi9poMu7OQVQQZRslBHR5pZWVxNghVrT9Wx6UjR7P6_843opZr24krk8cjQ2klA10XxMcsUk0M7ff6k7X5jKHRCep5vdV0NnxXy7HrMT034l7A38GKggGIiB5f_xN.pICSTPPv06a1fuwMFh.OggLrjdb3fiQu5SINpvMZK9aMsrhgMFGaCnwL.VdUdFRaAdUWvlVqqt88tuA X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Apr 2009 06:52:07 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 06:52:07 -0700 (PDT) To: "" , SoA , SilmarillionWritersGuild , leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com, ElvenLords@yahoogroups.com, Julie_Fianna_Archive@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, Waters_of_Cuivienen@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-315989946-1240840327=:25517" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: A Long Expected Contest - April/May's theme X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=AXJASIOV2n9h59n6yoXrYMIFiq6pgfP3tVOFA6HVpPyICZrcZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-315989946-1240840327=:25517 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you're receiving a duplicate, I apoligize. I'm cross posting this on man= y groups. =A0 Aragorn knelt beside him. Boromir opened his eyes and strove = to speak. At last slow words came. 'I tried to take the Ring from Frodo ' h= e said. 'I am sorry. I have paid.' His glance strayed to his fallen enemies= ; twenty at least lay there. 'They have gone: the Halflings: the Orcs have = taken them. I think they are not dead. Orcs bound them.' He paused and his = eyes closed wearily. After a moment he spoke again. 'Farewell, Aragorn! Go = to Minas Tirith and save my people! I have failed.' =A0 'No!' said Aragorn,= taking his hand and kissing his brow. 'You have conquered. Few have gained= such a victory. Be at peace! Minas Tirith shall not fall!' =A0 Boromir smi= led. =A0 'Which way did they go? Was Frodo there?' said Aragorn. =A0 But Bo= romir did not speak again. =A0 The Two Towers - Chapter 1, Departure of Bor= omir J.R.R. Tolkien =A0 A Long Awaited Contest(ALEC)is a contest for Tolkie= n fandom writers. It will include stories that are rated G-NC17 and can be = Slash, Het, or General. In other words - all genre's of the Tolkien fandom!= For rules see the LJ or yahoo group below. Since I am late posting this t= opic, this topic will be for April and May. The last two months we have onl= y had one entry so I'm praying this topic will inspire more of you to write= . =A0 The topic for April/May is Last Words. Think of all the many=A0death= s during the War of the Ring or earlier wars from the Silmarillion. What we= re the last words spoken by those that=A0died?=A0 Or perhaps you choose to = write about a departure of a different kind. What did Elrond say to Celebri= an when she sailed or the elves that did not answer the call of the Valar s= ay to those that did? It does not have to be based on documented events or= characters in the books and the words in the theme do not have to be inclu= ded in the fiction. Each writer has until May 31st to turn in the story to = alikatskorner@rockfan.com.=A0 Please include the proper formatting for LJ. = =A0 =A0 Good luck and happy writing! =A0 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_L= ong_Expected_Contest/ http://community. livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c/ ~~= **~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien = =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7= =B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0= -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --0-315989946-1240840327=:25517 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you're receiving a duplicate, I apoligize.= I'm cross posting this on many groups.
 

Aragorn knelt beside him. Boromir opened his eyes and strove to = speak. At last slow words came. 'I tried to take the Ring from Frodo ' he s= aid. 'I am sorry. I have paid.' His glance strayed to his fallen enemies; t= wenty at least lay there.

'They have gone: the Halflings: the Orcs have taken them= . I think they are not dead. Orcs bound them.' He paused and his eyes close= d wearily. After a moment he spoke again. 'Farewell, Aragorn! Go to Minas T= irith and save my people! I have failed.'

 

'No!' said Aragorn, taking his hand and = kissing his brow. 'You have conquered. Few have gained such a victory. Be a= t peace! Minas Tirith shall not fall!'

 

Boromir smiled.

 

'Which way did they go? Was Frodo = there?' said Aragorn.

 

But Boromir did not speak again.

 

The Two Towers - Chapter 1= , Departure of Boromir

J.R.R. Tolkien

 

A Long Awaited Cont= est(ALEC)is a contest for Tolkien fandom writers. It will include stories t= hat are rated G-NC17 and can be Slash, Het, or General. In other words - al= l genre's of the Tolkien fandom! For rules see the LJ or yahoo group below.=

Since I am late posting this topic,= this topic will be for April and May. The last two months we have only had= one entry so I'm praying this topic will inspire more of you to write.

 <= /DIV>

The topic for Ap= ril/May is Last Words. Think = of all the many deaths during the War of the Ring or earlier wars from= the Silmarillion. What were the last words spoken by those that died?=   Or perhaps you choose to write about a departure of a different kind= . What did Elrond say to Celebrian when she sailed or the elves that did no= t answer the call of the Valar say to those that did?

It does not have to be based = on documented events or characters in the books and the words in the theme = do not have to be included in the fiction. Each writer has until May 31st to turn in the story to alikatskorner@rockfan.com.&nb= sp; Please include the proper formatting for LJ.

 

 

Good luck and happy writing!
 =
<= A href=3D"http://community.%20livejournal.%20com/a_l_e_%20c/">http://community. livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c/
<= DIV>
~~**~~
I warn you,= if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
 <= /FONT>..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:-=
        =B8.=B7= =B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante= <= SPAN style=3D"COLOR: rgb(255,0,127); FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms"> ..= =BA=B0
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--0-315989946-1240840327=:25517-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2584 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35159 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2009 18:59:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2009 18:59:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.232) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2009 18:59:34 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id g37so59621rvb.23 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:59:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.115.107.1 with SMTP id j1mr2601020wam.149.1240858751559; Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:59:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646c41c1a67ef04688df134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles Kane (early thoughts) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=sWVEd6gSuEVd2AWPkC1t1-O1p2kk6480FT7C6sB9ipjXxMRsTnb4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163646c41c1a67ef04688df134 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, Has anyone else picked up a copy of *Arda Reconstructed* by Douglas Charles Kane yet? I got mine a few weeks ago but was in the middle of a long novel and so couldn't start it right away. I started it this past weekend and am already a third of the way through. For those who have missed (or weren't in the group) for past conversations on this book, *Arda Reconstructed* is the attempt by an amateur Tolkien scholar to trace the source of every last word in the published * Silmarillion.* Christopher Tolkien drew from dozens of sources scattered throughout the HoMe and other books, as well as sources that are less accessible (*Parma Eldalambion,* for example) or even completely inaccessible (such as conversations with his father). As Silm fans know well, the choices that CT made weren't always "correct" in the sense that they did not always reflect what the HoMe (and other books) revealed to be JRRT's final word on a subject. *Arda Reconstructed* attempts to show the sources that CT used down to the detail of single words, as well as to highlight sections of *The Silmarillion* that do not reflect JRRT's last writings on a subject or which CT (and Guy Kay, who assisted in writing the published *Silmarillion*) added independently of any of JRRT's writings. I've done this on occasion for research projects--such as tracing the evolution of a character throughout the whole of JRRT's writings--and know it to be a complicated and frustrating task. Kane's efforts in this book are truly herculean (and I am grateful that he has done it so that I do not have to! :) It has been difficult to put the book down. Occasionally masquerading as a responsible and functioning adult is the only reason that I have not finished it already. ;) A few themes are emerging already that I suspect will be of interest to many in this group. Firstly, the book is a testament to the complexity of the concept of "canon" where JRRT's posthumous works are concerned. There are paragraphs in the Silm that draw from five separate sources; there are sentences where the source changes in mid-sentence. One can certainly see that the *Silmarillion* that so many of us take as a form of "canon" is certainly problematic--at the best, extraordinarily complex--in places. In many cases, we have no way to know why CT chose to include the source that he did, or why he chose to strike otherwise "correct" (meaning that it is not disputed by anything JRRT wrote afterward, to the best of our knowledge) sections from the text. One particular theme that Kane traces is JRRT's treatment of women and how CT's editorial changes often diminish the roles of otherwise strong female characters. I've written a research essay on Nerdanel and knew that past version of the "Silmarillion" that JRRT had written included much more detail about her, but I never knew why these details were not included in the published version of *The Silmarillion*. Kane appears as stumped as I on this question, and he traces numerous other examples where CT seems to have removed details about female characters that JRRT gave no indication of wanting removed and which are not contradicted (or removed) in any later source documents. CT has never explained the reason for these changes; it is my hope that this book will perhaps compell him to explain his choices a bit more. For all I know, there is a perfectly good reason for CT's making this choice time and time again, but according to Kane's research (and my own, which is not nearly as in-depth), there is nothing in the HoMe to explain it. So ... I am reserving final judgment until I have the chance to finish the book and replicate some of Kane's findings with my own research but, so far, it seems like we might have a really good resource here. At least, I'm hoping so ... I really *don't* want to have to do this sort of thing for myself! :) Anyone else who has read or is reading this book, I'd be most interested to know what you think of it. :) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163646c41c1a67ef04688df134 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,
=C2=A0
Has anyone else picked up a copy= of Arda Reconstructed by Douglas Charles Kane yet?
=C2= =A0
I got mine a few weeks ago but was in the middle of a long n= ovel and so couldn't start it right away. I started it this past weeken= d and am already a third of the way through.
=C2=A0
F= or those who have missed (or weren't in the group) for past conversatio= ns on this book, Arda Reconstructed is the attempt by an amateur T= olkien scholar to trace the source of every last word in the published = Silmarillion. Christopher Tolkien drew from dozens of sources scattere= d throughout the HoMe and other books, as well as sources that are less acc= essible (Parma Eldalambion, for example) or even completely inacce= ssible (such as conversations with his father). As Silm fans know well, the= choices that CT made weren't always "correct" in the sense t= hat they did not always reflect what the HoMe (and other books) revealed to= be JRRT's final word on a subject.
=C2=A0
A= rda Reconstructed attempts to show the sources that CT used down to th= e detail of single words, as well as to highlight sections of The Silma= rillion that do not reflect JRRT's last writings on a subject or w= hich CT (and Guy Kay, who assisted in writing the published Silmarillio= n) added independently of any of JRRT's writings. I've done th= is on occasion for research projects--such as tracing the evolution of a ch= aracter throughout the whole of JRRT's writings--and know it to be a co= mplicated and frustrating task. Kane's efforts in this book are truly h= erculean (and I am grateful that he has done it so that I do not have to! := ) It has been difficult to put the book down. Occasionally masquerading as = a responsible and functioning adult is the only reason that I have not fini= shed it already. ;)
=C2=A0
A few themes are emerging= already that I suspect will be of interest to many in this group. Firstly,= the book is a testament to the complexity of the concept of "canon&qu= ot; where JRRT's posthumous works are concerned. There are paragraphs i= n the Silm that draw from five separate sources; there are sentences where = the source changes in mid-sentence. One can certainly see that the Silm= arillion that so many of us take as a form of "canon" is cer= tainly problematic--at the best, extraordinarily complex--in places.=C2=A0I= n many cases, we have no way to know why CT chose to include the source tha= t he did, or why he chose to strike otherwise "correct" (meaning = that it is not disputed by anything JRRT wrote afterward, to the best of ou= r knowledge) sections from the text.
=C2=A0
One part= icular theme that Kane traces is JRRT's treatment of women and how CT&#= 39;s editorial changes often diminish the roles of otherwise strong female = characters. I've written a research essay on Nerdanel and knew that pas= t version of the "Silmarillion" that JRRT had written included mu= ch more detail about her, but I never knew why these details=C2=A0were not = included in the published version of The Silmarillion. Kane appear= s as stumped as I on this question, and he traces numerous other examples w= here CT seems to have removed details about female characters that JRRT gav= e no indication of wanting removed and which are not contradicted (or remov= ed) in any later source documents. CT has never explained the reason for th= ese changes; it is my hope that this book will perhaps compell him to expla= in his choices a bit more. For all I know, there is a perfectly good reason= for CT's making this choice time and time again, but according to Kane= 's research (and my own, which is not nearly as in-depth), there is not= hing in the HoMe to explain it.
=C2=A0
So ... I am r= eserving final judgment until I have the chance to finish the book and repl= icate some of Kane's findings with my own research but, so far, it seem= s like we might have a really good resource here. At least, I'm hoping = so ... I really don't want to have to do this sort of thing fo= r myself! :)
=C2=A0
Anyone else who has read or is r= eading this book, I'd be most interested to know what you think of it. = :)
=C2=A0
All the best,
=C2=A0
= Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhave= ns.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00163646c41c1a67ef04688df134-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2585 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69102 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2009 19:25:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2009 19:25:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2009 19:25:32 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-449f6066084; Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:24:16 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c91.3d669ae2 (30739) for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:23:54 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1240860234" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.200 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles Kane (... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=EMEGLRgBsobDKPNKzI0HBePWKN338oMw5fIB-_He5bCcDL20IBeD X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1240860234 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone else who has read or is reading this book, I'd be most interested to know what you think of it. :) I haven't. I have been avoiding it since I prefer to do my own research and didn't want to be prejudiced by his. However, if everyone else is reading it, then I have to read it in order to know what of mine, that I pick and chose as references in my own non-fiction pieces, will be questioned or not based upon his work. (Very long way of saying: "Oh shit! Another book to buy and read." I guess I will order it today.) I also am conscious that while he probably provides a really valuable resource, he cannot be considered absolutely definitive unless he has seen all of the original notes. One must also remember that not all of Tolkien's notes have been published. I have also seen facsimiles of pages with passages CT had marked as "unintelligible" in pub;ished books, that any mediocre legal secretary accustomed to typing documents from handwritten copy would have been able to decipher with certainty in a nano-second! **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220572846x1201387511/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= Aprilfooter427NO62) -------------------------------1240860234 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Anyone else who has read or is reading= this book, I'd be most interested to know what you think of it. :)
I haven't. I have been avoidin= g it since I prefer to do my own research and didn't want to be = prejudiced by his. However, if everyone else is reading it, then I have to= read it in order to know what of mine, that I pick and chose as refe= rences in my own non-fiction pieces, will be questioned or not based upon = his work. (Very long way of saying: "Oh shit! Another book to buy and = read." I guess I will order it today.)
 
I also am conscious that while he probably provides a really = valuable resource, he cannot be considered absolutely definitive unles= s he has seen all of the original notes. One must also remember that not a= ll of Tolkien's notes have been published. I have also seen facsimiles of = pages with passages CT had marked as "unintelligible" in pub;ished books, = that any mediocre legal secretary accustomed to typing documents from hand= written copy would have been able to decipher with certainty in a nano-sec= ond!

A Good Credit Score is 700 or= Above. = See yours in just 2 easy steps!
-------------------------------1240860234-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2586 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75009 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2009 19:50:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2009 19:50:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.247) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2009 19:50:54 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id f25so68303rvb.26 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:50:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.137.16 with SMTP id k16mr2776072wad.189.1240861831462; Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:50:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:50:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646c4b6ae001104688ea84a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles Kane (... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rM6LqhT1aP5yZfFjJnQBolE5s6UbOGDqVOgkcIGeSpmwAwStR-WC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163646c4b6ae001104688ea84a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:23 PM, wrote: > I also am conscious that while he probably provides a really valuable resource, he cannot be considered absolutely definitive unless he has seen all of the original notes. Absolutely. One thing that I think warmed me to the book is that this is acknowledged up front as a shortcoming of the study. It is an analysis based on the published texts only. I liked that Kane was explicit about this as a shortcoming. Trained in social-science research myself, I look askance at anything that does not openly acknowledge its shortcomings, and as far as being "definitive," there is no doubt that this book is not. The only "definitive" source is more than thirty years deceased and--no matter how adamantly some people swear to be able to know his intent--as far as I can tell, even with a really good Ouija board, he's not talking. :) I don't even consider CT to be a "definitive source," though he's probably the closest that we have to one. > However, if everyone else is reading it, then I have to read it in order to know what of mine, that I pick and chose as references in my own non-fiction pieces, will be questioned or not based upon his work. (Very long way of saying: "Oh shit! Another book to buy and read." Well, I hardly think that I count as everyone. :) I haven't heard of anyone else who has read it, though between B2MeM in March and RL stuff in April, I've been more out of the loop than I like to be. As for needing to read this book in order to write fanfic ... well, I think that is your choice if you think it is necessary or not. A friend and fellow co-mod in this group is fond of saying that we do not write "HoMe fic" but "Silmfic," so people who insist that in order to write "Silmfic," then one must become fluent in the nuances of the HoMe ... no. That's silly. And I think I'd have objections to anyone who was citing a secondary reference source as "canon" (even if I thought such a thing as "canon" existed!) But, as I said, if you think it is necessary to read this book to be informed as an author ... *shrug* I won't argue. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163646c4b6ae001104688ea84a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:23 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
<= div>> I also am conscious that while he probably provides a really valua= ble resource, he cannot be considered absolutely definitive unless he has s= een all of the original notes.

Absolutely. O= ne thing that I think warmed me to the book is that this is acknowledged up= front as a shortcoming of the study. It is an analysis based on the publis= hed texts only. I liked that Kane was explicit about this as a shortcoming.= Trained in social-science research myself, I look askance at anything that= does not openly acknowledge its shortcomings, and as far as being "de= finitive," there is no doubt that this book is not. The only "def= initive" source is more than thirty years deceased and--no matter how = adamantly some people swear to be able to know his intent--as far as I can = tell, even with a really good Ouija board, he's not talking. :) I don&#= 39;t even consider CT to be a "definitive source," though he'= s probably the closest that we have to one.
=C2=A0
&= gt; However, if everyone else is reading it, then I have to read it in orde= r to know what of mine, that I pick and chose as references in my own non-f= iction pieces, will be questioned or not based upon his work. (Very long wa= y of saying: "Oh shit! Another book to buy and read."
=C2=A0
Well, I hardly think that I count as everyone. :) I hav= en't heard of anyone else who has read it, though between B2MeM in Marc= h and RL stuff in April, I've been more out of the loop than I like to = be.
=C2=A0
As for needing to read this book in order = to write fanfic ... well, I think that is your choice if you think it is ne= cessary or not. A friend and fellow co-mod in this group is fond of saying = that we do not write "HoMe fic" but "Silmfic," so peopl= e who insist that in order to write "Silmfic," then one must beco= me fluent in the nuances of the HoMe ... no. That's silly. And I think = I'd have objections to anyone who was citing a secondary reference sour= ce as "canon" (even if I thought such a thing as "canon"= ; existed!) But, as I said, if you think it is necessary to read this book = to be informed as an author ... *shrug* I won't argue. :)
= =C2=A0
Dawn
--00163646c4b6ae001104688ea84a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2587 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30386 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2009 20:09:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2009 20:09:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s10.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.148) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2009 20:09:54 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W7 ([65.55.34.136]) by col0-omc3-s10.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:09:33 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_9b0157cc-7397-41f0-8e6d-321602a61218_" To: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:09:33 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2009 20:09:33.0543 (UTC) FILETIME=[14C61770:01C9C774] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=EOx9YeG4EyrGJwVqaYySh4PtYkNd9BNDInX6sHcur8cbgygogj9PTQ X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_9b0157cc-7397-41f0-8e6d-321602a61218_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have not yet got my hands on a copy of this, so I am happy to hear th= at you are finding it a good resource thus far, Dawn. I'll admit that my p= rimary interest is in the illustrations ;). Oshun, you are correct, i= n that his research is at the level of other fans - he had no access to ori= ginal manuscripts while he compiled this. He did contact Christopher Tolki= en, but CJRT was not interested in being involved in the project (he saw a = manuscript before it was accepted by a publisher, though, IIRC). It was ce= rtainly *not* a collaboration with the Tolkien Estate. It's certainly not = the final word on the subject! The book is described here: www.theonering= .com/articles1-20346/DouglasKanetalksaboutArdaReconstructed So, no, it'= s not something you have to defend yourself against, but rather a good jump= ing off point. It is meant to help you form a picture of what sources went= into forming the 'finished product.' This resource would be particularly = valuable to people who have not managed to wade through HoME on their own j= ust yet. His claim that CJRT intentionally reduced the role of women = is probably the most controversial aspect of the work. Certainly, he prune= d the roles of female characters - but as most of them were minor character= s, it is possible that this happened in a general pruning of minor characte= rs. AFAIK, CJRT did not explain these decisions in HoME, so we really don'= t know what his thinking was on the subject. The women on Finwe's family t= ree weren't necessarily...relevant. Still, as readers of the Silmarillion,= it is good to know that this pruning happened (regardless of *why*) so tha= t we can understand JRRT's original intent better. For anyone who wou= ld like to discuss this book in a venue where the author may see your comme= nts, may I suggest going to this site: www.thehalloffire.net/forum/viewfor= um.php?f=3D28 I hope the conversation will continue here, I'm just puttin= g that out there for anyone who is interested. MithLuin -* -- |> |_= /|\ |\| -- *- ** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* ** * * God saw that the light wa= s good, and God separated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4 Eru cen= n=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello. = To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com From: heartofoshun@aol= .com Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:23:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter= sGuild] "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles Kane (... Anyone = else who has read or is reading this book, I'd be most interested to know w= hat you think of it. :) I haven't. I have been avoiding it since I prefer = to do my own research and didn't want to be prejudiced by his. However, if = everyone else is reading it, then I have to read it in order to know what o= f mine, that I pick and chose as references in my own non-fiction pieces, w= ill be questioned or not based upon his work. (Very long way of saying: "Oh= shit! Another book to buy and read." I guess I will order it today.) I a= lso am conscious that while he probably provides a really valuable resource= , he cannot be considered absolutely definitive unless he has seen all of t= he original notes. One must also remember that not all of Tolkien's notes h= ave been published. I have also seen facsimiles of pages with passages CT h= ad marked as "unintelligible" in pub;ished books, that any mediocre legal s= ecretary accustomed to typing documents from handwritten copy would have be= en able to decipher with certainty in a nano-second! __________________= _______________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now = available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHot= mail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 --_9b0157cc-7397-41f0-8e6d-321602a61218_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
I have not yet got my hands on a copy of this, so I= am happy to hear that you are finding it a good resource thus far, Dawn.&n= bsp; I'll admit that my primary interest is in the illustrations ;).  =
 
Oshun, you are correct, in that his research is at the leve= l of other fans - he had no access to original manuscripts while he compile= d this.  He did contact Christopher Tolkien, but CJRT was not interest= ed in being involved in the project (he saw a manuscript before it was acce= pted by a publisher, though, IIRC).  It was certainly *not* a collabor= ation with the Tolkien Estate.  It's certainly not the final word on t= he subject!  The book is described here:
www.the= onering.com/articles1-20346/DouglasKanetalksaboutArdaReconstructed
=  
So, no, it's not something you have to defend yourself against, = but rather a good jumping off point.  It is meant to help you form a p= icture of what sources went into forming the 'finished product.'  This= resource would be particularly valuable to people who have not managed to = wade through HoME on their own just yet. 
 
His claim th= at CJRT intentionally reduced the role of women is probably the most contro= versial aspect of the work.  Certainly, he pruned the roles of female = characters - but as most of them were minor characters, it is possible that= this happened in a general pruning of minor characters.  AFAIK, CJRT = did not explain these decisions in HoME, so we really don't know what his t= hinking was on the subject.  The women on Finwe's family tree weren't = necessarily...relevant.  Still, as readers of the Silmarillion, it is = good to know that this pruning happened (regardless of *why*) so that we ca= n understand JRRT's original intent better. 
 
For anyon= e who would like to discuss this book in a venue where the author may see y= our comments, may I suggest going to this site:
www.thehalloffire.net/forum/vi= ewforum.php?f=3D28

I hope the conversation will continue here, = I'm just putting that out there for anyone who is interested. 
&n= bsp;
MithLuin

-* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *-
** *-* |> | |= | |\| *-* **
* *

God saw that the light was good, and God sepa= rated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4

Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i m= orniello.






 
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
From: heartofoshun@aol= .com
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:23:54 -0400
Subject: Re: [Silmarillion= WritersGuild] "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles Kane (...

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Anyone else= who has read or is reading this book, I'd be most interested to know what = you think of it. :)
I have= n't. I have been avoiding it since I prefer to do my own research and didn'= t want to be prejudiced by his. However, if everyone else is read= ing it, then I have to read it in order to know what of mine, that I p= ick and chose as references in my own non-fiction pieces, will be questione= d or not based upon his work. (Very long way of saying: "Oh shit! Anoth= er book to buy and read." I guess I will order it today.)
<= DIV> 
I also am conscious that while he probably = provides a really valuable resource, he cannot be considered absolutel= y definitive unless he has seen all of the original notes. One must also re= member that not all of Tolkien's notes have been published. I have also see= n facsimiles of pages with passages CT had marked as "unintelligible" in pu= b;ished books, that any mediocre legal secretary accustomed to typing docum= ents from handwritten copy would have been able to decipher with certainty = in a nano-second!

I have not yet got my hands on a copy of this, so I am happy to hear that you are finding it a good resource thus far, Dawn. I'll admit that my primary interest is in the illustrations ;). I'm now past the halfway point (because my husband wanted to read in the hammock yesterday afternoon; really, his idea, not mine ;) and still find the book fascinating. My only qualm so far (again, without having looked deeper into Kane's research than what I already know from my own studies of the HoMe) kind of goes along with what Oshun said about how we can't possibly judge "correctness" using the HoMe alone. As noted yesterday, Kane is up-front about this shortcoming, which I respect (and, in fact, would question the book in its entirety if he was not), but I've noticed that as the book moves on, there are times when judgment is passed along the lines of "This was the wrong decision to make." It's his opinion, of course, but I hesitate at the certainty with which it was expressed, given that the methodology behind the book isn't definitive to start. However, that does cause me to, again, hope that this book might inspire CT to explain why he cut some of the material that he did or why he reverted to older sources when more recent (and often more extensive) material was available. I have a hard time believing that, given the care he's taken to preserve and share his father's vision, that it was simply that he preferred one version over another. > His claim that CJRT intentionally reduced the role of women is probably the most controversial aspect of the work. Certainly, he pruned the roles of female characters - but as most of them were minor characters, it is possible that this happened in a general pruning of minor characters. *snip* The women on Finwe's family tree weren't necessarily...relevant. Still, as readers of the Silmarillion, it is good to know that this pruning happened (regardless of *why*) so that we can understand JRRT's original intent better. The extent to which female characters were reduced from JRRT's late sources into the published Silm is really quite stunning. And with respect to minor characters, yes, that is a fair interpretation ... but they are not all minor characters. Off the top of my head, all of the female characters in Aman except for the Valar and Aredhel get trimmed in some way: Miriel, Indis, Galadriel, Ungoliant, Arien, Nerdanel, and, of course, the daughters of Indis. Perhaps CT did have good reason, and male characters get pruned as well. (Melkor and the Feanorians both get the axe in places.) And some of the deletions made with respect to women are bigger than others. Miriel loses a lot more than Galadriel, for example. In a lot of cases, it seems to me that CT's deletions render the characters less complex and more easily categorized in the good-evil dichomtomy that is stereotypical of fantasy literature. I have always loved about the Silm that, in many places, it defies this tidy dualism; it seems that the final version that JRRT had written was even more so. A lot of the cuts concerning the Feanorians, Melkor, and Ungoliant makes those characters less sympathetic or, at least, less complex. Some of the edits concerning the female characters fit this pattern as well. Thanks for the link to the discussion on the Hall of Fire, too! :) When I finish the book, I will definitely head over there and see what others are saying about it. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e64f7fd6df555504689e4e74 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Quoth MithLuin:
=C2=A0
> I have not yet got m= y hands on a copy of this, so I am happy to hear that you are finding it a = good resource thus far, Dawn.=C2=A0 I'll admit that my primary interest= is in the illustrations ;).
=C2=A0
I'm now past = the halfway point (because my husband wanted to read in the hammock yesterd= ay afternoon; really, his idea, not mine ;) and still find the book fascina= ting. My only qualm so far (again, without having looked deeper into Kane&#= 39;s research than what I already know from my own studies of the HoMe) kin= d of goes along with what Oshun said about how we can't possibly judge = "correctness" using the HoMe alone. As noted yesterday, Kane is u= p-front about this shortcoming, which I respect (and, in fact, would questi= on the book in its entirety if he was not), but I've noticed that as th= e book moves on, there are times when judgment is passed along the lines of= "This was the wrong decision to make." It's his opinion, of = course, but I hesitate at the certainty with which it was expressed, given = that the methodology behind the book isn't definitive to start.
=
=C2=A0
However, that does cause me to, again, hope that thi= s book might inspire CT to explain why he cut some of the material that he = did or why he reverted to older sources when more recent (and often more ex= tensive) material was available. I have a hard time believing that, given t= he care he's taken to preserve and share his father's vision, that = it was simply that he preferred one version over another.
=C2= =A0
> His claim that CJRT intentionally reduced the role of w= omen is probably the most controversial aspect of the work.=C2=A0 Certainly= , he pruned the roles of female characters - but as most of them were minor= characters, it is possible that this happened in a general pruning of mino= r characters.=C2=A0=C2=A0*snip*=C2=A0 The women on Finwe's family tree = weren't necessarily...relevant.=C2=A0 Still, as readers of the Silmaril= lion, it is good to know that this pruning happened (regardless of *why*) s= o that we can understand JRRT's original intent better.
=C2= =A0
The extent to which female characters were reduced from JRRT= 's late sources into the published Silm is really quite stunning. And w= ith respect to minor characters, yes, that is a fair interpretation ... but= they are not all minor characters. Off the top of my head, all of the fema= le characters in Aman except for the Valar and Aredhel get trimmed in some = way: Miriel, Indis, Galadriel, Ungoliant, Arien, Nerdanel, and, of course, = the daughters of Indis. Perhaps CT did have good reason, and male character= s get pruned as well. (Melkor and the Feanorians both get the axe in places= .) And some of the deletions made with respect to women are bigger than oth= ers. Miriel loses a lot more than Galadriel, for example.
=C2= =A0
In a lot of cases, it seems to me that CT's deletions re= nder the characters less complex and more easily categorized in=C2=A0the go= od-evil dichomtomy that is stereotypical of fantasy literature. I have alwa= ys loved about the Silm that, in many places, it defies this tidy dualism; = it seems that the final version that JRRT had written was even more so. A l= ot of the cuts concerning the Feanorians, Melkor, and Ungoliant makes those= characters less sympathetic or, at least, less complex. Some of the edits = concerning the female characters fit this pattern as well.
=C2= =A0
Thanks for the link to the discussion on the Hall of Fire, t= oo! :) When I finish the book, I will definitely head over there and see wh= at others are saying about it.
=C2=A0
All the best,
=C2=A0
Dawn

--
~oOo~
D= awn Felagund
htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e64f7fd6df555504689e4e74-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2589 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15652 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2009 17:18:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2009 17:18:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-m07.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.209) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2009 17:18:49 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-m07.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-449f73a0e10b; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:17:02 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.cd1.4d8776dd (41811) for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:16:48 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1240939008" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.139 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=6xYj6jOvWt_IzWFy_YGT5AH0wHO3yjxlVzMtGgrLBBm9S3CaG47s X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1240939008 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CT's deletions render the characters less complex and more easily categorized in the good-evil dichomtomy that is stereotypical of fantasy literature. I have always loved about the Silm that, in many places, it defies this tidy dualism; it seems that the final version that JRRT had written was even more so. A lot of the cuts concerning the Feanorians, Melkor, and Ungoliant makes those characters less sympathetic or, at least, less complex. Some of the edits concerning the female characters fit this pattern as well. I have noted that, of course. Really frustrating, given my bent on those particular subjects. I suspect, although I cannot prove it, that Galadriel got less cuts, because Tolkien was still planning major additions to her character when he died. I would love to hear CT's defenses of some of the cuts. Often the ones he gives in footnotes are less than compelling to say the least. Still have not ordered the book. Really have to do it today. **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621499x1201450105/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Apr ilExcScore428NO62) -------------------------------1240939008 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
CT's deletions render the characters less c= omplex and more easily categorized in the good-evil dichomtomy that= is stereotypical of fantasy literature. I have always loved about the S= ilm that, in many places, it defies this tidy dualism; it seems that the= final version that JRRT had written was even more so. A lot of the cuts= concerning the Feanorians, Melkor, and Ungoliant makes those characters= less sympathetic or, at least, less complex. Some of the edits concerni= ng the female characters fit this pattern as well.
I have noted that, of course. Really frustrating, given= my bent on those particular subjects.
 
I susp= ect, although I cannot prove it, that Galadriel got less cuts, because Tol= kien was still planning major additions to her character when he died. I w= ould love to hear CT's defenses of some of the cuts. Often the ones he giv= es in footnotes are less than compelling to say the least.
 = ;
Still have not ordered the book. Really have to do it today.<= /DIV>
An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Your= s in Just 2 Easy Steps!
-------------------------------1240939008-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2590 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44941 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2009 18:16:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2009 18:16:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.226) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2009 18:16:06 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f6so499103rvb.39 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:15:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.53.1 with SMTP id b1mr3419562waa.29.1240942505586; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:15:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:15:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364582063bb8760468a17153 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=VLy03IyrvD3VWB-_8gHNz7gk45Q3qHyKxv5O796TbSYzB9BD3lrS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364582063bb8760468a17153 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 1:16 PM, wrote: > I suspect, although I cannot prove it, that Galadriel got less cuts, because Tolkien was still planning major additions to her character when he died. I seem to recall only one example of where Galadriel's role was cut, at least according to Kane. My own knowledge of how her character evolves through the various sources is woefully inadequate. :( Your idea makes sense to me. My thinking, too, was that because she was so well-known because of LotR, then it was not as easily overlooked to remove huge sections on her character, like was done for Miriel, Ungoliant, and Nerdanel. Also, she's not in the Aman sections all that much to start. If he cut her role as much as he cut Miriel's, she wouldn't be in it at all! > I would love to hear CT's defenses of some of the cuts. Me too! They sometimes seem so random. And some of the original sections were wonderful and added so much, like the full text of the Oath or the full account of Finwe's death as related by Maedhros. (My bias is probably shining through here! :) Speaking of bias, I realized while I was reading more of the book over lunch that is summarizing characters who were majorly diminished by CT's edits, I left off Manwe. Kane concludes that a lot of the deletions concerning Manwe make him look vapid and unsympathetic, and I'm inclined to agree, especially considering that I've used some of those revised passages to argue the irresponsibility and general cluelessness of the Valar. I was thinking, again while reading at lunch today, that I could never see replacing the Silm as the primary text for fiction (and I think both of us use such a mixture of sources to start that it probably wouldn't matter much anyway), but I do have to rethink my reliance on it for *non-fiction,* that it'd probably be best to begin with the HoMe and see how the Silm fits from there. :^/ Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364582063bb8760468a17153 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 1:16 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
>= I suspect, although I cannot prove it, that Galadriel got less cuts, becau= se Tolkien was still planning major additions to her character when he died= .
=C2=A0
I seem to recall only one example of where = Galadriel's role was cut, at least according to Kane. My own knowledge = of how her character evolves through the various sources is woefully inadeq= uate. :(
=C2=A0
Your idea makes sense to me. My think= ing, too, was that because she was so well-known because of LotR, then it w= as not as easily overlooked to remove huge sections on her character, like = was done for Miriel, Ungoliant, and Nerdanel. Also, she's not in the Am= an sections all that much to start. If he cut her role as much as he cut Mi= riel's, she wouldn't be in it at all!
> I would = love to hear CT's defenses of some of the cuts.
=C2=A0
=
Me too! They sometimes seem so random. And some of the original secti= ons were wonderful and added so much, like the full text of the Oath or the= full account of Finwe's death as related by Maedhros. (My bias is prob= ably shining through here! :) Speaking of bias, I realized while I was read= ing more of the book over lunch that is summarizing characters who were maj= orly diminished by CT's edits, I left off Manwe. Kane concludes that a = lot of the deletions concerning Manwe make him look vapid and unsympathetic= , and I'm inclined to agree, especially considering that I've used = some of those revised passages to argue the irresponsibility and general cl= uelessness of the Valar.
=C2=A0
I was thinking, agai= n while reading at lunch today, that I could never see replacing the Silm a= s the primary text for fiction (and I think both of us use such a mixture o= f sources to start that it probably wouldn't matter much anyway), but I= do have to rethink my reliance on it for non-fiction, that it'= ;d probably be best to begin with the HoMe and see how the Silm fits from t= here. :^/
=C2=A0
Dawn

--
~o= Oo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364582063bb8760468a17153-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2591 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78156 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2009 18:25:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2009 18:25:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.159.7) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2009 18:25:04 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-d06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-449f749de2a2; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:24:30 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d3a.4059ea79 (29679) for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:24:18 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1240943058" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.138 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Zv2QWu5ROyQdoTqv-8nFI8BpEs82Lv9lAS_u88_II6VQkkqSXRGw X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1240943058 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was thinking, again while reading at lunch today, that I could never see replacing the Silm as the primary text for fiction (and I think both of us use such a mixture of sources to start that it probably wouldn't matter much anyway), but I do have to rethink my reliance on it for non-fiction, that it'd probably be best to begin with the HoMe and see how the Silm fits from there. :^/ I fell in love with The Silmarillion, warts and all, and do I consider that I write Silm-fics. But it is great to have all the other sources to pull from. I have a rather lax approach to canon in any case, which I will defend relentlessly, which is that I consider it inspiration. I am never careless about canon, but I believe it is perfectly legitimate to use it creatively in fanfiction. The only thing that gets my back up is when someone else tries to defend a very narrow interpretation as being the one and only possible. Meanwhile, I should be doing my research instead of chatting about this and finishing my character bio--right now! **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621499x1201450105/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Apr ilExcScore428NO62) -------------------------------1240943058 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
I was thinking, again while reading at lunch= today, that I could never see replacing the Silm as the primary text fo= r fiction (and I think both of us use such a mixture of sources to start= that it probably wouldn't matter much anyway), but I do have to rethink= my reliance on it for non-fiction, that it'd probably be best = to begin with the HoMe and see how the Silm fits from there. :^/<= /DIV>
 
I fell in love with <= U>The Silmarillion, warts and all, and do I consider that I write= Silm-fics. But it is great to have all the other sources to pull from. I = have a rather lax approach to canon in any case, which I will defend relen= tlessly, which is that I consider it inspiration. I am never carele= ss about canon, but I believe it is perfectly legitimate to use it creativ= ely in fanfiction. The only thing that gets my back up is when someone els= e tries to defend a very narrow interpretation as being the one and only p= ossible.
 
Meanwhile, I should be doing my rese= arch instead of chatting about this and finishing my character bio--right = now!
 

An Excellent = Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
<= /HTML> -------------------------------1240943058-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2592 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22994 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2009 18:51:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2009 18:51:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2009 18:51:48 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imo-m22.mail.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-449f74f8a2c8; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:48:42 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d39.498d07eb (29679) for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:48:31 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1240944511" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.199 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=W8DkHhdG9hKZnGrIlWpiK5ZpITqgf0FjbgE7rO7bC5MIoAN4LQ_K X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1240944511 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the process of ordering this book, I glanced at the pages one is able to view on Amazon. The first thing that jumped out and hit me between the eyes was this statement: "I am convinced that Christopher Tolkien made the right decision in not attempting to eliminate the 'flat world' concept." The tone stunned me. He passing right/wrong judgments in the book? I find that a little hard to swallow. Maybe he can win me over. It makes me want to go back to what I first said yesterday in this discussion and repeat it. The man did not have access to all of the manuscripts as far as I know. I would not presume to make such judgments without looking at all of the originals. I wouldn't even presume a typist got it right, much less rely upon others who picked and chose the bits and pieces that we have access too (however voluminous they are). I would tend to agree with his impulse on the particular choice he references: most likely too much would have to have been re-written or abandoned, given what I know of what existed, to have incorporated the flat-earth concept, without JRRT having written more about it. What bothers me is not DCK's opinion, but how he states it and the lack of qualifiers in the above statement. Oshun **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621499x1201450105/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Apr ilExcScore428NO62) -------------------------------1240944511 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In the process of= ordering this book, I glanced at the pages one is able to view = on Amazon. The first thing that jumped out and hit me between the eyes was= this statement:
 
"I am convinced that C= hristopher Tolkien made the right decision in not attempting to eliminate = the 'flat world' concept."
 
The tone stunned me. He passing right/wrong judgments in the book? I = find that a little hard to swallow. Maybe he can win me over. It makes me = want to go back to what I first said yesterday in this discussion and repea= t it. The man did not have access to all of the manuscripts as far as= I know. I would not presume to make such judgments without looking a= t all of the originals. I wouldn't even presume a typist got it right, muc= h less rely upon others who picked and chose the bits and pieces that= we have access too (however voluminous they are).
 
I would tend to agree with his impulse on the partic= ular choice he references: most likely too much would have to have b= een re-written or abandoned, given what I know of what existed, to hav= e incorporated the flat-earth concept, without JRRT having written more ab= out it. What bothers me is not DCK's opinion, but how he states it and&nbs= p;the lack of qualifiers in the above statement.
 
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast= -font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-lang= uage: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Oshun

An Excellent Credit Sco= re is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
-------------------------------1240944511-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2593 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89215 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2009 19:17:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2009 19:17:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.243) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2009 19:17:46 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id k29so1940979rvb.6 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:16:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.133.1 with SMTP id g1mr3400461wad.162.1240946205576; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:16:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:16:45 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64dd4cec4d2940468a24d38 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uBun1FKj6RdSWJbdQKi6P6mcjs2eiezYxNJNyMFWtF91D_6WecDr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e64dd4cec4d2940468a24d38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:48 PM, wrote: > What bothers me is not DCK's opinion, but how he states it and the lack of qualifiers in the above statement. I think it was in my reply to MithLuin today that I noted that this is the biggest thing that has bothered me and, in places, really gets under my skin. I didn't expect the book to be devoid the author's opinion (nor do I think you're saying that, for the record :) and, in fact, *wanted* that, to an extent, because I enjoy reading/hearing the opinions of other people that have studied the same books as I have. But I do agree that, in places, the certainty becomes a little hard to swallow. Of course, I pepper everything that I write liberally with qualifiers, possibly because I've always identified my role as a Tolkien fan as a "part of a community" rather than an "authority" and don't ever want my opinion being mistaken for the latter rather than the former. Personally, I would write such a statement as, "In my opinion, based on analysis of the published works, *xyz* was the right/wrong choice to make." Because I can't help but to feel a constant doubt in the back of my mind when working with JRRT's sources, knowing how much remains unpublished, discarded as illegible, or possibly lost entirely, that I just don't know the full story. (Pun intended!) So that is my chief complaint about the book, just over halfway through. I have been able to move past it so far and add my own qualifiers, mentally, to Kane's statements. :) I think that there is a lot of value, if one can move past that and, particularly, the tables of source material will (I hope) be a useful springboard for future research projects. I hope that if you read the book, this doesn't ruin the good bits entirely for you. :) I can't help, as I read on in the book, wishing that Kane had taken the advice we were always made to abide by in Critters: Yes, everything is your opinion, but it doesn't hurt to state it as such! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e64dd4cec4d2940468a24d38 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:48 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
>= What bothers me is not DCK's opinion, but how he states it and the lac= k of qualifiers in the above statement.

= --0016e64dd4cec4d2940468a24d38-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2594 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77546 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2009 19:40:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2009 19:40:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2009 19:40:25 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN1-249f75b72316; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:39:30 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c61.47a02829 (29679) for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:39:21 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1240947561" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.202 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=XFhCQK7Q4foIN7QjIWwNM3kU6MMI3W89ABpzyxAhy8uDRiizzAzU X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1240947561 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/28/2009 3:18:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: I have been able to move past it so far and add my own qualifiers, mentally, to Kane's statements. :) I think that there is a lot of value, if one can move past that and, particularly, the tables of source material will (I hope) be a useful springboard for future research projects. I hope that if you read the book, this doesn't ruin the good bits entirely for you. :) Don't worry about me. I'm definitely going to read the book. Still looking forward to it. And the tables alone, I agree, would be worth owning it. I'm just giggling that he would get the starch knocked out of him, making remarks like that without qualifiers in the circles I run in (and those are people with the most affinity to my heresy). Oshun **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621499x1201450105/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Apr ilExcScore428NO62) -------------------------------1240947561 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 4/28/2009 3:18:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com= writes:
An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Step= s!
-------------------------------1240947561-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2595 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79280 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2009 20:05:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2009 20:05:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.183) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2009 20:05:38 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j4so261653wah.23 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.115.19.16 with SMTP id w16mr3502917wai.51.1240949134701; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:05:34 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64cc5fe5bb5170468a2fca6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=kDJgxgjWFypbRoAQVEo1wJMVo4OKAwx467LGh5xdSipi9UhVGnBJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e64cc5fe5bb5170468a2fca6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 3:39 PM, wrote: > I'm just giggling that he would get the starch knocked out of him, making remarks like that without qualifiers in the circles I run in (and those are people with the most affinity to my heresy). Yes, exactly! :D The tone he takes is probably more of what is to be expected of someone writing as an "expert" in a field. I doubt I'd even notice it in a book about almost any other topic. But, of course, depicting oneself as an expert in fandom is practically begging to be knocked down a few pegs! And, of course, when it comes to JRRT, we heretics don't like simple answers to *anything*! :D Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e64cc5fe5bb5170468a2fca6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 3:39 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
<= div>> I'm just giggling that he would get the starch knocked out of = him, making remarks like that without qualifiers in the circles I run in (a= nd those are people with the most affinity to my heresy).

Yes, exact= ly! :D The tone he takes is probably more of what is to be expected of some= one writing as an "expert" in a field. I doubt I'd even notic= e it in a book about almost any other topic. But, of course, depicting ones= elf as an expert in fandom is practically begging to be knocked down a few = pegs!
I think it was in my reply to MithLuin today that I noted that this is= the biggest thing that has bothered me and, in places, really gets under m= y skin. I didn't expect the book to be devoid the author's opinion = (nor do I think you're saying that, for the record :) and, in fact, wanted that, to an extent, because I enjoy reading/hearing the opinio= ns of other people that have studied the same books as I have. But I do agr= ee that, in places, the certainty becomes a little hard to swallow. Of cour= se, I pepper everything that I write liberally with qualifiers, possibly be= cause I've always identified my role as a Tolkien fan as a "part o= f a community" rather than an "authority" and don't ever= want my opinion being mistaken for the latter rather than the former.
=C2=A0
Personally, I would write such a statement as, &q= uot;In my opinion, based on analysis of the published works, xyz w= as the right/wrong choice to make." Because I can't help but to fe= el a constant doubt in the back of my mind when working with JRRT's sou= rces, knowing how much remains unpublished, discarded as illegible, or poss= ibly lost entirely, that I just don't know the full story. (Pun intende= d!)
=C2=A0
So that is my chief complaint about the b= ook, just over halfway through. I have been able to move past it so far and= add my own qualifiers, mentally, to Kane's statements. :) I think that= there is a lot of value, if one can move past that and, particularly, the = tables of source material will (I hope) be a useful springboard for future = research projects. I hope that if you read the book, this doesn't ruin = the good bits entirely for you. :)
=C2=A0
I can'= t help, as I read on in the book, wishing that Kane had taken the advice we= were always made to abide by in Critters: Yes, everything is your opinion,= but it doesn't hurt to state it as such! :)
=C2=A0
Dawn
=C2=A0
And, of course, when it comes to JRRT, = we heretics don't like simple answers to anything! :D
=C2=A0
Dawn
=C2=A0
--
~oOo~
Dawn= Felagund
http:/= /themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e64cc5fe5bb5170468a2fca6-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2596 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72858 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2009 20:51:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2009 20:51:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s12.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.150) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2009 20:51:05 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W17 ([65.55.34.135]) by col0-omc3-s12.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:50:43 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_73e3e419-2af3-4c66-9afa-6cbf56b4a544_" To: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:50:43 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Apr 2009 20:50:43.0510 (UTC) FILETIME=[FF66E560:01C9C842] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=q8Xqc0qT7a-5xPj_ttDElDlhPBTCgP_tieQt-x2-2tZfiIXgjEUQDg X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_73e3e419-2af3-4c66-9afa-6cbf56b4a544_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For what it is worth, Kane's background is as a lawyer. I forget what = kind; only that he practices in California. I think he is the type of pers= on you talk to if your employer violates your rights or situations like tha= t? In other words, not academia, and not any sort of literary criticism. = I imagine he will get chewed out (in certain circles) for not just the asse= rtions he has made, but how he made them. That is probably part of the lea= rning curve in learning to write in a different field! It is possible his = publisher encouraged him to use a more 'authoritative' tone. Regardle= ss, hopefully what he says can be taken with a grain of salt, and maybe thi= s work would encourage someone else to delve a bit more deeply into this (c= heck out the primary manuscripts, interview CJRT, etc.) MithLuin = -* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *- ** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* ** * * God saw that= the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness. Genesis= 1:4 Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i = morniello. To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com From: Daw= nFelagund@gmail.com Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:16:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [Sil= marillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... = On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:48 PM, wrote: > What = bothers me is not DCK's opinion, but how he states it and the lack of quali= fiers in the above statement. I think it was in my reply to MithLuin tod= ay that I noted that this is the biggest thing that has bothered me and, in= places, really gets under my skin. I didn't expect the book to be devoid t= he author's opinion (nor do I think you're saying that, for the record :) a= nd, in fact, wanted that, to an extent, because I enjoy reading/hearing the= opinions of other people that have studied the same books as I have. But I= do agree that, in places, the certainty becomes a little hard to swallow. = Of course, I pepper everything that I write liberally with qualifiers, poss= ibly because I've always identified my role as a Tolkien fan as a "part of = a community" rather than an "authority" and don't ever want my opinion bein= g mistaken for the latter rather than the former. Personally, I would wri= te such a statement as, "In my opinion, based on analysis of the published = works, xyz was the right/wrong choice to make." Because I can't help but to= feel a constant doubt in the back of my mind when working with JRRT's sour= ces, knowing how much remains unpublished, discarded as illegible, or possi= bly lost entirely, that I just don't know the full story. (Pun intended!) = So that is my chief complaint about the book, just over halfway through. I= have been able to move past it so far and add my own qualifiers, mentally,= to Kane's statements. :) I think that there is a lot of value, if one can = move past that and, particularly, the tables of source material will (I hop= e) be a useful springboard for future research projects. I hope that if you= read the book, this doesn't ruin the good bits entirely for you. :) I ca= n't help, as I read on in the book, wishing that Kane had taken the advice = we were always made to abide by in Critters: Yes, everything is your opinio= n, but it doesn't hurt to state it as such! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felag= und http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org __________________________________________________________= _______ Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. htt= p://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Sto= rage2_042009 --_73e3e419-2af3-4c66-9afa-6cbf56b4a544_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
For what it is worth, Kane's background is as a law= yer.  I forget what kind; only that he practices in California.  = I think he is the type of person you talk to if your employer violates your= rights or situations like that?  In other words, not academia, and no= t any sort of literary criticism.  I imagine he will get chewed out (i= n certain circles) for not just the assertions he has made, but how he made= them.  That is probably part of the learning curve in learning to wri= te in a different field!  It is possible his publisher encouraged him = to use a more 'authoritative' tone. 
 
Regardless, hopef= ully what he says can be taken with a grain of salt, and maybe this work wo= uld encourage someone else to delve a bit more deeply into this (check out = the primary manuscripts, interview CJRT, etc.) 
 
MithLu= in
 


-* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *-
** *-* |> | |= | |\| *-* **
* *

God saw that the light was good, and God sepa= rated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4

Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i m= orniello.






 
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
From: DawnFelagund@gma= il.com
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:16:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [Silmarilli= onWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K...

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On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:48 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
> What bothers me is not DCK's opinion, but how he state= s it and the lack of qualifiers in the above statement.

I think it was in my reply to MithLuin today that I not= ed that this is the biggest thing that has bothered me and, in places, real= ly gets under my skin. I didn't expect the book to be devoid the author's o= pinion (nor do I think you're saying that, for the record :) and, in fact, = wanted that, to an extent, because I enjoy reading/hearing the opi= nions of other people that have studied the same books as I have. But I do = agree that, in places, the certainty becomes a little hard to swallow. Of c= ourse, I pepper everything that I write liberally with qualifiers, possibly= because I've always identified my role as a Tolkien fan as a "part of a co= mmunity" rather than an "authority" and don't ever want my opinion being mi= staken for the latter rather than the former.
 
= Personally, I would write such a statement as, "In my opinion, based on ana= lysis of the published works, xyz was the right/wrong choice to ma= ke." Because I can't help but to feel a constant doubt in the back of my mi= nd when working with JRRT's sources, knowing how much remains unpublished, = discarded as illegible, or possibly lost entirely, that I just don't know t= he full story. (Pun intended!)
 
So that is my c= hief complaint about the book, just over halfway through. I have been able = to move past it so far and add my own qualifiers, mentally, to Kane's state= ments. :) I think that there is a lot of value, if one can move past that a= nd, particularly, the tables of source material will (I hope) be a useful s= pringboard for future research projects. I hope that if you read the book, = this doesn't ruin the good bits entirely for you. :)
 
I can't help, as I read on in the book, wishing that Kane had taken = the advice we were always made to abide by in Critters: Yes, everything is = your opinion, but it doesn't hurt to state it as such! :)
 =
Dawn



Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Get e-= mail storage that grows with you. Check it out. --_73e3e419-2af3-4c66-9afa-6cbf56b4a544_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2597 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32041 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2009 21:04:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2009 21:04:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.159.7) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2009 21:04:54 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-d06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-349f76f60272; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:04:32 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c4a.4e38d93b (29679) for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:04:24 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1240952664" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=pPQQWWt-2vnuqLFP9gtQjYnCbTDTsaJhFoXfd9xTTB5wbaGUpXkG X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1240952664 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/28/2009 4:51:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mithluin@hotmail.com writes: Kane's background is as a lawyer . . . . In other words, not academia, and not any sort of literary criticism. I imagine he will get chewed out (in certain circles) for not just the assertions he has made, but how he made them. That is probably part of the learning curve in learning to write in a different field! It is possible his publisher encouraged him to use a more 'authoritative' tone. That is interesting. I would have thought, having done a lot of technical editing of legal briefs in law firms myself, that he would, with that background, have been even more conscious of language use. Who knows, maybe you are correct that he was egged on by a publiser or editor to be more forceful, or felt like this was a field where he could cut loose from all restraints and write whatever he thought in any way he felt like. Nevermind all that though, I am more than willing to cut him some slack and buy his (very expensive!) book on the basis on the textual references and amount of sheer grunt work involved if nothing else. Doing that kind of tedious textual comparison at this exact moment myself--SWG monthly character bio--and it is no picnic. Just kidding! I love doing them. Oshun **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621499x1201450105/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Apr ilExcScore428NO62) -------------------------------1240952664 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a messag= e dated 4/28/2009 4:51:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mithluin@hotmail.com w= rites:
Kane's background is as a lawyer= . . . .   In other words, not academia, and not any sort= of literary criticism.  I imagine he will get chewed out (in certa= in circles) for not just the assertions he has made, but how he made the= m.  That is probably part of the learning curve in learning to writ= e in a different field!  It is possible his publisher encouraged hi= m to use a more 'authoritative' tone. 
=
That is interesting. I would have thought, havin= g done a lot of technical editing of legal briefs in law firms myself, tha= t he would, with that background, have been even more conscious of languag= e use. Who knows, maybe you are correct that he was egged on by a publiser= or editor to be more forceful, or felt like this was a field where he cou= ld cut loose from all restraints and write whatever he thought in any way = he felt like.
 
Nevermind all that though, I am= more than willing to cut him some slack and buy his (very expensive!= ) book on the basis on the textual references and amount of sheer gru= nt work involved if nothing else. Doing that kind of tedious textual = comparison at this exact moment myself--SWG monthly character bio--an= d it is no picnic. Just kidding! I love doing them.
 
=
Oshun

An Excellent Credit Scor= e is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
-------------------------------1240952664-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2598 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39178 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 00:54:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 00:54:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.180) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 00:54:21 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j32so319020waf.10 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:54:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.168.15 with SMTP id q15mr3575427wae.56.1240966443934; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:54:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:54:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646cc0e11a3470468a7043c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=X6TsruLGcT2LDOwUHKQnFOghjTI8V96Ze-9knsrZ3GY5N3yPIrZ- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163646cc0e11a3470468a7043c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Marie Prosser wrote: > It is possible his publisher encouraged him to use a more 'authoritative' tone. I think you're probably right. I doubt I'd get away with my wishy-washy trained-by-Critters-and-fandom-to-say-one-thousand-times-that-it's-my-opinion if, Valar help us all, I ever wrote a book about my Tolkien studies. I am in the Turin chapter now and so pretty far along. Interestingly, now that I'm watching for it, the "authoritative" tone diminishes quite a bit. It seemed most prevalent in the Aman chapters. Perhaps Kane, too, feels a connection to this period in history and the characters that feature in it. I know that I can forget myself a bit when discussing and debating this part of the book, as it is my favorite and I certainly have very strong opinions about it. He also doesn't seem as invested in the B&L and Turin chapters as in some of the earlier sections. (Totally random, but he mentioned in one of the chapters I read tonight that one of his favorite characters is Voronwe. That delighted me for the very reason that it seemed so very fannish: the tendency to form a connection to a character that is only mentioned a couple of times in the texts and would probably be instantly forgotten by the average reader. Says she who has an unreasonable attachment to Pengolodh, not to mention Finarfin. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163646cc0e11a3470468a7043c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Marie Prosser <mithluin@hotmail.com> wrote= :
> It is possible his publisher encouraged him to use a more 'au= thoritative' tone.=C2=A0

I think you're probably right. I = doubt I'd get away with my wishy-washy trained-by-Critters-and-fandom-t= o-say-one-thousand-times-that-it's-my-opinion if, Valar help us all, I = ever wrote a book about my Tolkien studies.

I am in the Turin chapt= er now and so pretty far along. Interestingly, now that I'm watching fo= r it, the "authoritative" tone diminishes quite a bit. It seemed = most prevalent in the Aman chapters. Perhaps Kane, too, feels a connection = to this period in history and the characters that feature in it. I know tha= t I can forget myself a bit when discussing and debating this part of the b= ook, as it is my favorite and I certainly have very strong opinions about i= t. He also doesn't seem as invested in the B&L and Turin chapters a= s in some of the earlier sections.

(Totally random, but he mentione= d in one of the chapters I read tonight that one of his favorite characters= is Voronwe. That delighted me for the very reason that it seemed so very f= annish: the tendency to form a connection to a character that is only menti= oned a couple of times in the texts and would probably be instantly forgott= en by the average reader. Says she who has an unreasonable attachment to Pe= ngolodh, not to mention Finarfin. :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Da= wn Felagund
http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00163646cc0e11a3470468a7043c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2599 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2621 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 01:34:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 01:34:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 01:34:09 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2009 01:33:25 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2009 01:33:25 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 01:33:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=JBXCKPNQe2501UCzv9aetn3YUCId_McC3PSGdB9d8SvNtmlzGlRpIVep X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Marie Prosser wrote: > > It is possible his publisher encouraged him to use a more '= authoritative' > tone. > > I think you're probably right. I doubt I'd get = away with my wishy-washy > trained-by-Critters-and-fandom-to-say-one-thousa= nd-times-that-it's-my-opinion > if, Valar help us all, I ever wrote a book = about my Tolkien studies. > Given that you've read a goodly chunk of Arda= Reconstructed, what do you think it's trying to be? A scholarly work? Or = a bigger and better (and illustrated!) version of the bits and pieces of es= says that we rank amateurs read and write? ;^) I ask because Oshun's quote= d excerpt from Amazon strikes me as nothing less than a strong opinion that= one might slap up on one's blog. Not that there's anything wrong with str= ong opinions. I've been known to have a few. But if this is a scholarly t= ome which should try to attain some margin of objectivity (as much as possi= ble for the inherently subjective -- that is, art and literature), then I'm= not sure I can get past such authoritative pronouncements. Out of curio= sity I checked out the Hall of Fire (a tip o' the lurky hat to MithLuin for= the link) and read some very interesting discussions, among them one betwe= en the author in question and another individual in discussing the Second P= rophecy. First, Voronwe quotes from Sassafras: "One may have personal opin= ions on the validity of the prophecy...but in which version? Turin slays Mo= rgoth? Turin slays Ancalagon? Beren is also present? Nienor and Turin dwelt= as shining Valar?, Earendil, alongside Tulkas drives Morgoth as a white fl= ame? ...Many of these versions are contradictory and it seems to me that on= e can pick and choose individual aspects which suit one's own philosophy." = Then Voronwe replies: "This is disagree with. I think that is like saying= that you can choose Trotter the Hobbit over Strider the Numenorian if you = happen to like that version better (of course no one does, but that is besi= de the point). I think the valid version is the final one that Tolkien wrot= e and revised. Any previous versions have to be considered preempted. Of co= urse, its possible that Tolkien would have abandoned or changed that final = version if he had ever finalized the Silmarillion himself. But he did not. = So we have to make do with what we have." Well now. That sounds pretty au= thoritative to me. I can imagine an orthodox priest telling a Gnostic that = everything the Gnostic stands for is wrong and that orthodoxy takes all bec= ause it was written "last" or by someone "more qualified." Wait. That's w= hat happened, wasn't it? Anyway, again it strikes me that applying strict = interpretation to fictional literature which is a created mythology treads = on perilous ground. If going by that which is strictly canonical, i.e., "s= cholarly," then an objective tone should be struck. Or failing that, at lea= st state "It is my opinion that..." Again, I think it's my data-driven, ev= idence-based mind of metal and wheels which biases me here. I would prefer= to see objectivity in what appears to be a scholarly work. Additionally, = said mind of metal and wheels loves to read all sorts of mythology from a v= ery fluid and imaginative perspective so having an author's non-evidence-ba= sed opinions (which are not qualified as such) right there in my face kinda= puts me off my feed. That may be why I'm wary of many meta-analyses of JR= RT's works. I might buy the book for Breogan's artwork though. :^) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2600 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2914 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 01:47:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 01:47:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s5.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.143) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 01:47:44 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W15 ([65.55.34.136]) by col0-omc3-s5.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:47:23 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_b3c48095-4e79-4c1e-abba-0c925e6310b0_" To: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:47:23 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2009 01:47:23.0364 (UTC) FILETIME=[70F11240:01C9C86C] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=Jqrz3OhotZelAf9WIw_Yn3qd7G47Q2vvQMQCQLEbhY6CulKi-5RsYA X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_b3c48095-4e79-4c1e-abba-0c925e6310b0_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, Voronwe is his screenname ;). He's gone by several versions, mos= tly Voronwe the Faithful or Voronwe the Steadfast (though also at one point= Voronwe teh Shiny). So it would be like you saying you liked Finrod's dwa= rvish nickname..... MithLuin -* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *- ** *-* |> | | = | |\| *-* ** * * God saw that the light was good, and God separated the = light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4 Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra= , ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello. To: SilmarillionWriter= sGuild@yahoogroups.com From: DawnFelagund@gmail.com Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 = 20:54:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstruc= ted" by Douglas Kane On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Marie Prosser = wrote: > It is possible his publisher encouraged him= to use a more 'authoritative' tone. I think you're probably right. I do= ubt I'd get away with my wishy-washy trained-by-Critters-and-fandom-to-say-= one-thousand-times-that-it's-my-opinion if, Valar help us all, I ever wrote= a book about my Tolkien studies. I am in the Turin chapter now and so pre= tty far along. Interestingly, now that I'm watching for it, the "authoritat= ive" tone diminishes quite a bit. It seemed most prevalent in the Aman chap= ters. Perhaps Kane, too, feels a connection to this period in history and t= he characters that feature in it. I know that I can forget myself a bit whe= n discussing and debating this part of the book, as it is my favorite and I= certainly have very strong opinions about it. He also doesn't seem as inve= sted in the B&L and Turin chapters as in some of the earlier sections. (To= tally random, but he mentioned in one of the chapters I read tonight that o= ne of his favorite characters is Voronwe. That delighted me for the very re= ason that it seemed so very fannish: the tendency to form a connection to a= character that is only mentioned a couple of times in the texts and would = probably be instantly forgotten by the average reader. Says she who has an = unreasonable attachment to Pengolodh, not to mention Finarfin. :) Dawn --= ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://ww= w.silmarillionwritersguild.org ________________________________________= _________________________ Windows Live=99 SkyDrive=99: Get 25 GB of free on= line storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_= skydrive_042009 --_b3c48095-4e79-4c1e-abba-0c925e6310b0_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
Well, Voronwe is his screenname ;).  He's gone= by several versions, mostly Voronwe the Faithful or Voronwe the Steadfast = (though also at one point Voronwe teh Shiny).  So it would be like you= saying you liked Finrod's dwarvish nickname.....
 
MithLuin
-* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *-
** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* **
* = *

God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from= the darkness. Genesis 1:4

Eru cenn=EB sa = i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello.





 
To: Silmarillio= nWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
From: DawnFelagund@gmail.com
Date: Tue,= 28 Apr 2009 20:54:03 -0400
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: = "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane



On Tue,= Apr 28, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Marie Prosser <mithluin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>= It is possible his publisher encouraged him to use a more 'authoritative' = tone. 

I think you're probably right. I doubt I'd get away wit= h my wishy-washy trained-by-Critters-and-fandom-to-say-one-thousand-times-t= hat-it's-my-opinion if, Valar help us all, I ever wrote a book about my Tol= kien studies.

I am in the Turin chapter now and so pretty far along.= Interestingly, now that I'm watching for it, the "authoritative" tone dimi= nishes quite a bit. It seemed most prevalent in the Aman chapters. Perhaps = Kane, too, feels a connection to this period in history and the characters = that feature in it. I know that I can forget myself a bit when discussing a= nd debating this part of the book, as it is my favorite and I certainly hav= e very strong opinions about it. He also doesn't seem as invested in the B&= amp;L and Turin chapters as in some of the earlier sections.

(Totall= y random, but he mentioned in one of the chapters I read tonight that one o= f his favorite characters is Voronwe. That delighted me for the very reason= that it seemed so very fannish: the tendency to form a connection to a cha= racter that is only mentioned a couple of times in the texts and would prob= ably be instantly forgotten by the average reader. Says she who has an unre= asonable attachment to Pengolodh, not to mention Finarfin. :)

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org



Windows Live=99 SkyDrive=99: Get 25 GB of free online storage= . Check it out. --_b3c48095-4e79-4c1e-abba-0c925e6310b0_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2601 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16720 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 01:55:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 01:55:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.231) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 01:55:12 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id k40so665616rvb.25 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:54:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.170.2 with SMTP id s2mr3589555wae.5.1240970051964; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:54:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:54:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c6af91fcf8d0468a7dbbb X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5uiG--oZQvkE9CQhFGdrS8mDKjCQXowvNlffsflhnf3Xf5x4VQtG X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364c6af91fcf8d0468a7dbbb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, considering the very un-serious way that I ended up with my alias (which I have come to realize that probably about half the people I know in real life think is my real name! >.<) ... " 'Felagund Lord of Caves ...' That sounds cool! I want to be a lord of caves! I shall henceforth be known as Felagund Lord of Caves!" Honestly, my sister and husband recollect to this day the evening that I made that grand declaration to them. It stuck. ;) Dawn (whose first name really is Dawn) On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Marie Prosser wrote: > Well, Voronwe is his screenname ;). He's gone by several versions, mostly > Voronwe the Faithful or Voronwe the Steadfast (though also at one point > Voronwe teh Shiny). So it would be like you saying you liked Finrod's > dwarvish nickname..... > > MithLuin > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364c6af91fcf8d0468a7dbbb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, considering the very un-serious way that I ended up with my alias (wh= ich I have come to realize that probably about half the people I know in re= al life think is my real name! >.<) ...

" 'Felagund L= ord of Caves ...'
That sounds cool! I want to be a lord of caves!I shall henceforth be known as Felagund Lord of Caves!"

Hones= tly, my sister and husband recollect to this day the evening that I made th= at grand declaration to them. It stuck. ;)

Dawn
(whose first nam= e really is Dawn)

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at= 9:47 PM, Marie Prosser <mithluin@hotmail.com> wrote:

Well, Vor= onwe is his screenname ;).=C2=A0 He's gone by several versions, mostly = Voronwe the Faithful or Voronwe the Steadfast (though also at one point Vor= onwe teh Shiny).=C2=A0 So it would be like you saying you liked Finrod'= s dwarvish nickname.....
=C2=A0
MithLuin












--
~oO= o~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364c6af91fcf8d0468a7dbbb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2602 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85433 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 01:56:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 01:56:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 01:56:35 -0000 X-Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mail.aol.com [172.20.107.74]) by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-449f7b3af286; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:55:59 -0400 X-Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-349f7b3a33bd; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:55:47 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d18.43ecc974 (29679) for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:55:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:55:41 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1240970141" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 172.20.107.74 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Pp5VQk54L2E8BFU9v06g3vw63JltVvNjEZJQ2hGSTROibRbNXP4G X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1240970141 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But if this is a scholarly tome which should try to attain some margin of objectivity (as much as possible for the inherently subjective -- that is, art and literature), then I'm not sure I can get past such authoritative pronouncements. I actually like some scholarly pieces written in genre of retired-dentist-goes-crazy-with-hobby. They are often freer of the prejudices of calcified academia and brilliantly done. The unfortunate citation I quoted looked to me like he needed a good editor. For over $60, after postage and handling, I would except that in general. However, the tables of comparative citations I found on the viewable pages on Amazon alone would convince me to buy the book. But I do think a lot of statements like the one above would have me cussing at him before the end. It's OK by me to have an axe to grind, since I consider myself wily enough to spot it, but one also generally observes a certain decorum of discourse in this type of work. One acknowledges one's personal opinion, but couches it in polite language, such as "It could appear..." "One might be led to infer..." etc., etc. Anyway, again it strikes me that applying strict interpretation to fictional literature which is a created mythology treads on perilous ground. If going by that which is strictly canonical, i.e., "scholarly," then an objective tone should be struck. Or failing that, at least state "It is my opinion that..." I agree with you 100%; that's what I was trying to say. I think I will have to take a look at that Hall of Fire discussion, sound like a hoot, but wouldn't trust myself to comment. Oshun **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621499x1201450105/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Apr ilExcScore428NO62) -------------------------------1240970141 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
But if this is a scholarly tome which should try = to attain some margin of objectivity (as much as possible for the inhere= ntly subjective -- that is, art and literature), then I'm not sure I can= get past such authoritative pronouncements.
I actually like some scholarly pieces written in genre of retired-denti= st-goes-crazy-with-hobby. They are often freer of the prejudices of calcif= ied academia and brilliantly done. The unfortunate citation I quoted looke= d to me like he needed a good editor. For over $60, after postage and hand= ling, I would except that in general.
 
However,= the tables of comparative citations I found on the viewable pages on Amaz= on alone would convince me to buy the book. But I do think a lot of s= tatements like the one above would have me cussing at him before the end.&= nbsp;It's OK by me to have an axe to grind, since I consider myself wily e= nough to spot it, but one also generally observes a certain decorum of dis= course in this type of work. One acknowledges one's personal opinion, = but couches it in polite language, such as "It could appear..." "One might= be led to infer..." etc., etc.
 
Anyway, again it strikes me that applying strict i= nterpretation to fictional literature which is a created mythology treads o= n perilous ground. If going by that which is strictly canonical, i.e., "s= cholarly," then an objective tone should be struck. Or failing that, at lea= st state "It is my opinion that..."
 
I agree with you 100%; that's what I was tr= ying to say. I think I will have to take a look at that Hall of Fire discu= ssion, sound like a hoot, but wouldn't trust myself to comment.
 
<= DIV>Oshun
 

A= n Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! -------------------------------1240970141-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2603 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60157 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 02:09:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 02:09:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s18.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.157) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 02:09:52 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W63 ([65.55.34.135]) by col0-omc3-s18.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:09:31 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_97998105-6413-46d2-869e-32aadaf0da40_" To: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:09:28 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2009 02:09:31.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[887F77F0:01C9C86F] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=BObLKCNZ3WoPKGiKq5BlGPYaE8oSY2delFdvMMuI1GSU3WzQI4X2ng X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_97998105-6413-46d2-869e-32aadaf0da40_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Haha, true, I associate you more with Feanor (and his sons) than with F= inrod, anyway. And to be fair, his interest in the character obviousl= y goes beyond choosing it as a moniker. Someone even asked him that ;). = Lalaith: So I was wondering as I was reading AR last night, did yo= u think of us when you wrote material about characters with "our" names? (N= erdanel is in both of the chapters I just read, and I couldn't help but thi= nk of our nerdanel. And then I was annoyed that Christopher left out the co= ol stuff about her.) Voronwe: Lali, I can't say that I really thought= too much about the people here who take their screen names from characters= in the Silmarillion stories when I was working on the book; I was too focu= sed on the details. But Nerdanel is an interesting example, because our nel= does share some of the character traits that Christopher left out. I did= n't even think of myself too much when talking about his unforgivable almos= t complete removal of Voronwe. -* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *- ** *-* |>= | | | |\| *-* ** * * God saw that the light was good, and God separated= the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4 Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m= =E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello. To: SilmarillionW= ritersGuild@yahoogroups.com From: DawnFelagund@gmail.com Date: Tue, 28 Apr = 2009 21:54:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Recon= structed" by Douglas Kane Well, considering the very un-serious way = that I ended up with my alias (which I have come to realize that probably a= bout half the people I know in real life think is my real name! >.<) ... "= 'Felagund Lord of Caves ...' That sounds cool! I want to be a lord of cave= s! I shall henceforth be known as Felagund Lord of Caves!" Honestly, my si= ster and husband recollect to this day the evening that I made that grand d= eclaration to them. It stuck. ;) Dawn (whose first name really is Dawn) = On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Marie Prosser wrote= : Well, Voronwe is his screenname ;). He's gone by several versions= , mostly Voronwe the Faithful or Voronwe the Steadfast (though also at one = point Voronwe teh Shiny). So it would be like you saying you liked Finrod'= s dwarvish nickname..... MithLuin -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org _________________________________________________________________ = Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://wi= ndowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_0= 42009 --_97998105-6413-46d2-869e-32aadaf0da40_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
Haha, true, I associate you more with Feanor (and h= is sons) than with Finrod, anyway. 
 
And to be fair, hi= s interest in the character obviously goes beyond choosing it as a moniker.=   Someone even asked him that ;).
 
 
 
= Lalaith:  So I was wondering as I was reading AR last night, did you = think of us when you wrote material about characters with "our" names? (Ner= danel is in both of the chapters I just read, and I couldn't help but think= of our nerdanel. And then I was annoyed that Christopher left out the cool= stuff about her.)
 
Voronwe:  La= li, I can't say that I really thought too much about the people here who ta= ke their screen names from characters in the Silmarillion stories when I wa= s working on the book; I was too focused on the details. But Nerdanel is an= interesting example, because our nel does share some of the character trai= ts that Christopher left out.

I didn't even think of myself too muc= h when talking about his unforgivable almost complete removal of Voronwe. <= IMG alt=3DMad src=3D"http://www.thehalloffire.net/forum/images/smiles/77ang= ry.gif" border=3D0>
 


-* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -= - *-
** *-* |> | | | |\| *-* **
* *

God saw that the lig= ht was good, and God separated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4=

Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru= ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello.






&nbs= p;
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com<= BR>From: DawnFelagund@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:54:11 -0400Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Dougla= s Kane



Well, considering the very un-serious= way that I ended up with my alias (which I have come to realize that proba= bly about half the people I know in real life think is my real name! >.&= lt;) ...

" 'Felagund Lord of Caves ...'
That sounds cool! I want = to be a lord of caves!
I shall henceforth be known as Felagund Lord of C= aves!"

Honestly, my sister and husband recollect to this day the eve= ning that I made that grand declaration to them. It stuck. ;)

Dawn(whose first name really is Dawn)

On = Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Marie Prosser <mithluin@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well, Voronwe is his screen= name ;).  He's gone by several versions, mostly Voronwe the Faithful o= r Voronwe the Steadfast (though also at one point Voronwe teh Shiny). = So it would be like you saying you liked Finrod's dwarvish nickname..... 
MithLuin


=








--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/h= eretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now avai= lable on your iPhone or BlackBerry Check it out. --_97998105-6413-46d2-869e-32aadaf0da40_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2604 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54818 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 02:09:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 02:09:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 02:09:53 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2009 02:09:52 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2009 02:09:52 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 02:09:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=BObLKCFZ3Wp76sSlEAnAZOzEfeF7jw2KP5wxwEJEhn7_Ztd20jZltT05 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >= in genre of > retired-dentist-goes-crazy-with-hobby. Now that elicite= d a LOL and I'm still chuckling. > It's OK by me to have an axe to grind, = since I consider myself wily enough > to spot it, but one also generally = observes a certain decorum of discourse > in this type of work. Exactly= ! > I think I will > have to take a look at that Hall of Fire discussion= , sound like a hoot, but > wouldn't trust myself to comment. Oh, I know I= wouldn't trust myself! Which is why I make these drive-by lurks on occasi= on. Of course, now I'm irreverently thinking of the "Elves wear plaid" cart= oon which means I probably should go to bed. (I turned in my final exam las= t night, so not only am I finished with the course, but also with the overa= ll program. Thus I am giddy with newfound freedom on Tuesday nights.) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2605 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35662 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 02:14:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 02:14:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-m06.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.200) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 02:14:45 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-m06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-449f7b80738d; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:14:31 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c3f.49a00f1e (29679) for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:14:26 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1240971266" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=V7oCb7ab8WnTQ3Z5GxKsGu_mz4nLXViJ5XUhWg06F8ymvvPxMcI9 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1240971266 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/28/2009 10:10:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, docbushwell@gmail.com writes: Of course, now I'm irreverently thinking of the "Elves wear plaid" cartoon which means I probably should go to bed. Do it! Do it! And post it on the Hall of Fire! (I turned in my final exam last night, so not only am I finished with the course, but also with the overall program. Thus I am giddy with newfound freedom on Tuesday nights.) Congrats! More time to play. **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621499x1201450105/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Apr ilExcScore428NO62) -------------------------------1240971266 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 4/28/2009 10:10:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, docbushwell@gmail.com write= s:
Of course, now I'm irreverently thin= king of the "Elves wear plaid" cartoon which means I probably should go = to bed.
Do it! Do it! And post it on the Hall of = Fire!
(I turned in my final exam last n= ight, so not only am I finished with the course, but also with the overa= ll program. Thus I am giddy with newfound freedom on Tuesday nights.)
Congrats! More time to play.

An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in= Just 2 Easy Steps!
-------------------------------1240971266-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2606 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88513 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 02:24:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 02:24:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 02:24:16 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2009 02:24:04 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2009 02:24:04 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 02:24:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="2-4923818416-7348099786=:6" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=Ccl7yrmyd3q0U_88Cs5Cuhl-axeEg6KlznXw1sr_X3GjbyVFVpvfYpeF X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --2-4923818416-7348099786=:6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >= > > Of course, now I'm irreverently thinking of the "Elves wear plaid" ca= rtoon > which means I probably should go to bed. > Do it! Do it! And post = it on the Hall of Fire! Ha! 1948: JRR Tolkien stumbes home from the Eagle= and Child pub... With = that kind of entry, I expect I'd be as welcome at the Hall of Fire as...wel= l, you know my usual Tolkienized adage. > > > Congrats! More time to play. = Thank you! Finally...more time for writing and cartooning both! > --2-4923818416-7348099786=:6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote= :
>
>
> Of course, now I'm irreverently thinking of the= "Elves wear plaid" cartoon
> which means I probably should go to b= ed.
> Do it! Do it! And post it on the Hall of Fire!

Ha! = ; 1948: JRR To= lkien stumbes home from the Eagle and Child pub...

With that ki= nd of entry, I expect I'd be as welcome at the Hall of Fire as...well, you = know my usual Tolkienized adage.
>
>
> Congrats! More ti= me to play.

Thank you! Finally...more time for writing and cartoonin= g both!
>
--2-4923818416-7348099786=:6-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2607 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59240 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 02:39:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 02:39:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.66) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 02:39:17 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.47] (helo=elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Lyzhd-0005nH-BN for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:39:17 -0400 X-Received: from 68.13.53.230 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:39:17 -0400 Message-ID: <26685060.1240972757261.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:39:17 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7935ced1cb6cde132cab74facfed839fd0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=GK0vQd33l3kBrZCUcM9ukhCs1Imrwt9mUlpYtf3hTBedxwerVBc0 X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 I'm briefly popping out of lurkerdom to comment on how much I'm enjoying this discussion - especially since it is what brought the book to my attention in the first place.  Somehow I'd missed hearing about it before now!  Needless to say, an emergency Amazon.com order has been placed, and I should have a copy of my own just in time for some weekend reading.

Ithilwen


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
Sent: Apr 28, 2009 7:54 PM
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane



On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Marie Prosser <mithluin@hotmail.com> wrote:
> It is possible his publisher encouraged him to use a more 'authoritative' tone. 

I think you're probably right. I doubt I'd get away with my wishy-washy trained-by-Critters-and-fandom-to-say-one-thousand-times-that-it's-my-opinion if, Valar help us all, I ever wrote a book about my Tolkien studies.

I am in the Turin chapter now and so pretty far along. Interestingly, now that I'm watching for it, the "authoritative" tone diminishes quite a bit. It seemed most prevalent in the Aman chapters. Perhaps Kane, too, feels a connection to this period in history and the characters that feature in it. I know that I can forget myself a bit when discussing and debating this part of the book, as it is my favorite and I certainly have very strong opinions about it. He also doesn't seem as invested in the B&L and Turin chapters as in some of the earlier sections.

(Totally random, but he mentioned in one of the chapters I read tonight that one of his favorite characters is Voronwe. That delighted me for the very reason that it seemed so very fannish: the tendency to form a connection to a character that is only mentioned a couple of times in the texts and would probably be instantly forgotten by the average reader. Says she who has an unreasonable attachment to Pengolodh, not to mention Finarfin. :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2608 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71601 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 11:29:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 11:29:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13d.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.236) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 11:29:22 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2009 11:29:17 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2009 11:29:17 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:29:15 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles Kane (... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=fUcs_hIEprooxIcZld5B9jsjowoa15NM8s4B5OZSYx0ZoNX0cEqlhxE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: >= > Anyone else who has read or is reading this book, I'd be most >> interes= ted to know what you think of it. :) > > I haven't. I have been avoiding = it since I prefer to do my own > research and didn't want to be prejudiced= by his. However, if > everyone else is reading it, then I have to read i= t in order to > know what of mine, that I pick and chose as references in= my own > non-fiction pieces, will be questioned or not based upon his wo= rk. > (Very long way of saying: "Oh shit! Another book to buy and read." = > I guess I will order it today.) I am alike you Oshun, however when Dawn = mentioned something about Maedhros' account on Finw=EB's death, I started t= o worry if I should cease editing my nano novel and I wondered if I might h= ave missed something... I doubt it, but it has been two years since I did t= hat bit of research. :-/ The price most certainly had me going like yikes = (its immensely expensive even sans shipping at Amazon in Germany!) and its = not something I can pay out of pocket right now, even if it has Breogan's f= ab artwork (I love her works). Perhaps a paperback edition will become avai= lable or I might get a generous birthday pressie (not counting on it). >= I also am conscious that while he probably provides a really > valuable = resource, he cannot be considered absolutely definitive > unless he has s= een all of the original notes. One must also > remember that not all of T= olkien's notes have been published. *nods* I know that there is a huge co= llection of letters and notes that haven't been unpublished and I am wonder= ing a bit as to the why he was denied access to such material. However when= I read the author's replies in cited bits from a forum, I can see why he m= ight have rankled Christopher ;) I have some other non-fiction published bo= oks on my shelves where the author did get access, so I probably think that= still a lot is missing to get that bigger picture and as to the why stuff = has been left out by Christopher (be it on purpose or not). Yet, since I lo= ve tables and have done that with my Nirnaeth research myself, I'd love to = hold it in my hands. Ah well. There is still something to spending time on = a rainy afternoon with all your books around you colourfully littered with = post its as you try to sort matters out in your own head while your kid eag= erly is 'drawing' over your notes. [says she, wistfully] Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2609 Return-Path: X-Sender: deand12000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46744 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 12:17:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 12:17:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web56005.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (216.252.110.184) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 12:17:15 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 76445 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Apr 2009 12:16:15 -0000 Message-ID: <481782.76036.qm@web56005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: NvqnN50VM1kKiQXahdkeFu.w6a4p0P6LN3.3kB.CLj0nlGQ.XATRMZUHbuULgyfQ.HdqllqDgjGFkBaLLCdZiaVKUn.GW3WjxHYBL7_UGClFtm3rkJU41if5IIgjV3yATd6L_GWt1vgL7CqsZL0fZgPvJXfjsUjK3iIqLzCxba7JdfcxMWSognXNf8rChvZufmavg81SnkQoBnZCRIOWeRdVMTbCfF5YZqF5cgJ9Hhif60uSV_ArE.SLZRvFm2UEKJfgRP14juNYeT2w0wZGI_4x3EFkh8Sx_xoKFN_jnuwVui8tojJZq7WrlmB555prvcdmw5LbVNtBs.oAaRse5FkD6bHmdx8SwA.vpJA88YaWaatMyLBZt_ATV7zNZtc554p1KfJmqNg- X-Received: from [165.83.104.199] by web56005.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 05:16:15 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 References: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-193319522-1241007375=:76036" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dean Rowley Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=114134930; y=VV7l723zBnjwkotKdEnIMJiwkWceD_At9uOBrLlwi5366zAMfA X-Yahoo-Profile: deand12000 --0-193319522-1241007375=:76036 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The only possible defense of a statement this certain is: If it is not flat= , it is NOT myth. The=A0tale being told is not about explaining how Men who= did not have modern scientific concepts made errors in understanding the h= istory of Elves, it is about how Eru created a world with dragons and troll= s and how 'Those Who Can Speak' got it to work. Part of that story is how= =A0the world started out flat then changed in response to 'Speakers' messin= g up. CT not accepting that change is accepting the Myth as Myth. Dean Row= ley ________________________________ From: "heartofoshun@aol.com" To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday= , April 28, 2009 2:48:31 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda R= econstructed" by Douglas Charles K... ______________________________= __ An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! In th= e process of ordering this book, I glanced at the pages one=A0is able to=A0= view on Amazon. The first thing that jumped out and hit me between the eyes= was this statement: "I am convinced that Christopher Tolkien made the rig= ht decision in not attempting to eliminate the 'flat world' concept." =A0 = The tone stunned me. He passing right/wrong judgments in the book? I find t= hat a little hard to swallow. Maybe he can win me over. It makes me want to= go back to what I first said yesterday in this discussion and repeat it. T= he man did not have access to all of the manuscripts as=A0far as I know. I = would not presume to make such=A0judgments without looking at all of the or= iginals. I wouldn't even presume a typist got it right, much less rely upon= =A0others who picked and chose the bits and pieces that we have access too = (however voluminous they are). =A0 I would tend to agree with his impulse = on the particular choice he references: most likely too much would have to= =A0have been=A0re-written or abandoned, given what I know of what existed, = to have incorporated the flat-earth concept, without JRRT having written mo= re about it. What bothers me is not DCK's opinion, but how he states it and= =A0the lack of qualifiers in the above statement. =A0 Oshun --0-193319522-1241007375=:76036 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The only possible defense of a statement this certain = is: If it is not flat, it is NOT myth. The tale being told is not abou= t explaining how Men who did not have modern scientific concepts made error= s in understanding the history of Elves, it is about how Eru created a worl= d with dragons and trolls and how 'Those Who Can Speak' got it to work. Par= t of that story is how the world started out flat then changed in resp= onse to 'Speakers' messing up. CT not accepting that change is accepting th= e Myth as Myth.
Dean Rowley

From: "heartofoshun@aol.com" =
To: SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroups.com
Sent:<= /B> Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:48:31 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed"= by Douglas Charles K...

In the process of= ordering this book, I glanced at the pages one is able to view o= n Amazon. The first thing that jumped out and hit me between the eyes was t= his statement:
 
"= I am convinced that Christopher Tolkien made the right decision in not atte= mpting to eliminate the 'flat world' concept."
 
The to= ne stunned me. He passing right/wrong judgments in the book? I find that a = little hard to swallow. Maybe he can win me over. It makes me want to go ba= ck to what I first said yesterday in this discussion and repeat it. The man= did not have access to all of the manuscripts as far as I know. I wou= ld not presume to make such judgments without looking at all of the or= iginals. I wouldn't even presume a typist got it right, much less rely upon=  others who picked and chose the bits and pieces that we have access t= oo (however voluminous they are).
 
I would tend to agree wi= th his impulse on the particular choice he references: most likely too much= would have to have been re-written or abandoned, given what I kn= ow of what existed, to have incorporated the flat-earth concept, without JR= RT having written more about it. What bothers me is not DCK's opinion, but = how he states it and the lack of qualifiers in the above statement.
 
Oshun

An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in = Just 2 Easy Steps!

--0-193319522-1241007375=:76036-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2610 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39983 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 14:08:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 14:08:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 14:08:39 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imo-m13.mail.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-449f85f0f45; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:07:11 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.bc1.4ecf140a (29679) for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:07:07 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1241014027" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles Ka... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=QaQ1YU3IT1BwgqLw9w5K0ukfLN9nd8IZzU744NVMMaoD121LHGLH X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1241014027 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am wondering a bit as to the why he was denied access to such material. I wondered if he even asked. That requires a whole other level of skills and persistence than organizing from already printed material. I remember when my ex-husband's stepfather (a writer) died and my mother-in-law gave me the job of sorting and putting the papers in his study in order in preparation for donating them to a library and it was daunting. My impression from reading CT's footnotes is that Tolkien's work was much more confusing by magnitudes of tens. It could take years and very particular skills to be able to go through all of the materials definitively. It is amazing to me that we have access to as much as we do. However when I read the author's replies in cited bits from a forum, I can see why he might have rankled Christopher ;) I have no idea what his requirements might be for granting permission. Yet, since I love tables and have done that with my Nirnaeth research myself, I'd love to hold it in my hands. Ah well. There is still something to spending time on a rainy afternoon with all your books around you colourfully littered with post its as you try to sort matters out in your own head while your kid I have tables I've made up from HoMe also and I am not a table person at all. I would rather someone else do it and then buy the book! And no I don't have the money either to buy the books I would like. And it is hard to judge which are worth the expense and which are not. **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631276x1201390200/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double click.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv) -------------------------------1241014027 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
I am wondering a bit as to the why he was denied = access to such material.
I wondered if he even a= sked. That requires a whole other level of skills and persistence than org= anizing from already printed material. I remember when my ex-husband's ste= pfather (a writer) died and my mother-in-law gave me the job of sorti= ng and putting the papers in his study in order in preparation for do= nating them to a library and it was daunting. My impression from = reading CT's footnotes is that Tolkien's work was much more confusing= by magnitudes of tens. It could take years and very particular skill= s to be able to go through all of the materials definitively. It is&n= bsp;amazing to me that we have access to as much as we do.
However when I read the author's replies in cited bi= ts from a forum, I can see why he might have rankled Christopher ;)
I have no idea what his requirements might be for gra= nting permission.
Yet, since I love ta= bles and have done that with my Nirnaeth research myself, I'd love to ho= ld it in my hands. Ah well. There is still something to spending time on= a rainy afternoon with all your books around you colourfully littered w= ith post its as you try to sort matters out in your own head while your kid=
I have tables I've made up from H= oMe also and I am not a table person at all. I would rather someone else d= o it and then buy the book! And no I don't have the money either to buy th= e books I would like. And it is hard to judge which are worth the expense = and which are not.

Big savings on Dell XP= S Laptops and Desktops!
-------------------------------1241014027-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2611 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58326 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 14:34:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 14:34:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s1.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.139) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 14:34:24 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W57 ([65.55.34.137]) by col0-omc3-s1.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:34:03 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_09d43f0e-5bfb-4f59-a5a2-bc29a5e1c1de_" To: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:34:03 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2009 14:34:03.0651 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B3FD530:01C9C8D7] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles Kane (... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=gzLdoxdjJfYSvOtjIR7i6Bao60zbNOJFCEpg3ArZuHZT2VIUe69vzw X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_09d43f0e-5bfb-4f59-a5a2-bc29a5e1c1de_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree, it's a bit steep. One could hope the price will go down at so= me point - both B&N and Amazon are carrying it, so one might offer a better= discount than the other or something. Part of the reason for the pricetag= is because of the tables. "Supplementing the text of Arda Reconstruc= ted are 25 detailed tables. The first table provides the dates that each o= f the source texts that were used in the creation of the published Silmaril= lion were written. The last table provides the different versions of names= of people, places and things that were used in the source texts. In betwe= en, the other 23 tables trace paragraph by paragraph the source material us= ed to create the published texts, showing both the primary source for each = paragraph, and the secondary sources used to merge material into the primar= y sources for each paragraph. These tables provide a key resource for anyo= ne interested in tracing in detail how the published Silmarillion was creat= ed." http://www.arda-reconstructed.com/ (The illustration of Voronwe can= be found here, as well.) For those who want to see more 'glimpses' bef= ore buying, I can point you in the direction of some excerpts that were pub= lished separately and are available online. Heren Istarion published an= earlier draft of the Introduction last summer, which is available on pages= 51-58 here: http://herenistarion.org/parmanole/PN19-20_Part1.pdf Myth= lore published a chapter in the fall as an extract, which contains some of = the 'CJRT cut the women!' stuff, but no pretty tables (terrible formatting = in this version, sorry): 'Of Feanor and the Chaining of Melkor" http://fi= ndarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0OON/is_1-2_27/ai_n30956840/ Hope that is= helpful.... MithLuin -* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *- ** *-* |> | | | |\| *= -* ** * * God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light f= rom the darkness. Genesis 1:4 Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Er= u ciltan=EB i c=E1l=EB i morniello. > To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@= yahoogroups.com > From: rhapsody74@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:29= :15 +0000 > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by= Douglas Charles Kane (... > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups= .com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > >> Anyone else who has read or is readin= g this book, I'd be most > >> interested to know what you think of it. :) = > > > > I haven't. I have been avoiding it since I prefer to do my own > = > research and didn't want to be prejudiced by his. However, if > > everyo= ne else is reading it, then I have to read it in order to > > know what of= mine, that I pick and chose as references in my own > > non-fiction piece= s, will be questioned or not based upon his work. > > (Very long way of sa= ying: "Oh shit! Another book to buy and read." > > I guess I will order it= today.) > > I am alike you Oshun, however when Dawn mentioned something a= bout Maedhros' account on Finw=EB's death, I started to worry if I should c= ease editing my nano novel and I wondered if I might have missed something.= .. I doubt it, but it has been two years since I did that bit of research. = :-/ > > The price most certainly had me going like yikes (its immensely ex= pensive even sans shipping at Amazon in Germany!) and its not something I c= an pay out of pocket right now, even if it has Breogan's fab artwork (I lov= e her works). Perhaps a paperback edition will become available or I might = get a generous birthday pressie (not counting on it). > > > I also am cons= cious that while he probably provides a really > > valuable resource, he c= annot be considered absolutely definitive > > unless he has seen all of th= e original notes. One must also > > remember that not all of Tolkien's not= es have been published. > > *nods* I know that there is a huge collection= of letters and notes that haven't been unpublished and I am wondering a bi= t as to the why he was denied access to such material. However when I read = the author's replies in cited bits from a forum, I can see why he might hav= e rankled Christopher ;) I have some other non-fiction published books on m= y shelves where the author did get access, so I probably think that still a= lot is missing to get that bigger picture and as to the why stuff has been= left out by Christopher (be it on purpose or not). Yet, since I love table= s and have done that with my Nirnaeth research myself, I'd love to hold it = in my hands. Ah well. There is still something to spending time on a rainy = afternoon with all your books around you colourfully littered with post its= as you try to sort matters out in your own head while your kid eagerly is = 'drawing' over your notes. [says she, wistfully] > > Rhapsody > > > > = > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > = _________________________________________________________________ Redisco= ver Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowsli= ve.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 --_09d43f0e-5bfb-4f59-a5a2-bc29a5e1c1de_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
I agree, it's a bit steep.  One could hope the= price will go down at some point - both B&N and Amazon are carrying it= , so one might offer a better discount than the other or something.  P= art of the reason for the pricetag is because of the tables. 
&nb= sp;
"Supplementing the text of Arda Reconstructed are 25 detai= led tables.  The first table provides the dates that each of the sourc= e texts that were used in the creation of the published Silmarillion were written.  The last table provides the different versions of na= mes of people, places and things that were used in the source texts.  = In between, the other 23 tables trace paragraph by paragraph the source mat= erial used to create the published texts, showing both the primary source f= or each paragraph, and the secondary sources used to merge material into th= e primary sources for each paragraph.  These tables provide a key reso= urce for anyone interested in tracing in detail how the published Silma= rillion was created."

http://www.arda-reconstructed.com/  (The illustration = of Voronwe can be found here, as well.)
 
For those who want t= o see more 'glimpses' before buying, I can point you in the direction of so= me excerpts that were published separately and are available online.
&n= bsp;
Heren Istarion published an earlier draft of the Introduction last= summer, which is available on pages 51-58 here:
http://herenistarion.org/parmano= le/PN19-20_Part1.pdf
 
Mythlore published a chapter in the= fall as an extract, which contains some of the 'CJRT cut the women!' stuff= , but no pretty tables (terrible formatting in this version, sorry):  = 'Of Feanor and the Chaining of Melkor"
http://findarticles.com/p/a= rticles/mi_m0OON/is_1-2_27/ai_n30956840/
 
Hope that is he= lpful....
 
MithLuin

-* -- |> |_ /|\ |\| -- *-
*= * *-* |> | | | |\| *-* **
* *

God saw that the light was goo= d, and God separated the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4
<= EM>
Eru cenn=EB sa i c=E1l=EB n=E9 m=E1ra, ar Eru ciltan=EB= i c=E1l=EB i morniello.






 
>= To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
> From: rhapsody74@gmai= l.com
> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:29:15 +0000
> Subject: [Silma= rillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles Kane (...<= BR>>
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofos= hun@... wrote:
>
> >> Anyone else who has read or is rea= ding this book, I'd be most
> >> interested to know what you t= hink of it. :)
> >
> > I haven't. I have been avoiding i= t since I prefer to do my own
> > research and didn't want to be = prejudiced by his. However, if
> > everyone else is reading it, t= hen I have to read it in order to
> > know what of mine, that I p= ick and chose as references in my own
> > non-fiction pieces, wil= l be questioned or not based upon his work.
> > (Very long way of= saying: "Oh shit! Another book to buy and read."
> > I guess I w= ill order it today.)
>
> I am alike you Oshun, however when Da= wn mentioned something about Maedhros' account on Finw=EB's death, I starte= d to worry if I should cease editing my nano novel and I wondered if I migh= t have missed something... I doubt it, but it has been two years since I di= d that bit of research. :-/
>
> The price most certainly had m= e going like yikes (its immensely expensive even sans shipping at Amazon in= Germany!) and its not something I can pay out of pocket right now, even if= it has Breogan's fab artwork (I love her works). Perhaps a paperback editi= on will become available or I might get a generous birthday pressie (not co= unting on it).
>
> > I also am conscious that while he prob= ably provides a really
> > valuable resource, he cannot be consid= ered absolutely definitive
> > unless he has seen all of the orig= inal notes. One must also
> > remember that not all of Tolkien's = notes have been published.
>
> *nods* I know that there is a = huge collection of letters and notes that haven't been unpublished and I am= wondering a bit as to the why he was denied access to such material. Howev= er when I read the author's replies in cited bits from a forum, I can see w= hy he might have rankled Christopher ;) I have some other non-fiction publi= shed books on my shelves where the author did get access, so I probably thi= nk that still a lot is missing to get that bigger picture and as to the why= stuff has been left out by Christopher (be it on purpose or not). Yet, sin= ce I love tables and have done that with my Nirnaeth research myself, I'd l= ove to hold it in my hands. Ah well. There is still something to spending t= ime on a rainy afternoon with all your books around you colourfully littere= d with post its as you try to sort matters out in your own head while your = kid eagerly is 'drawing' over your notes. [says she, wistfully]
> > Rhapsody
>
>
>
>
>
> -------= -----------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> =
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://gr= oups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/
>
> <*> Y= our email settings:
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Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry Check it out. --_09d43f0e-5bfb-4f59-a5a2-bc29a5e1c1de_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2612 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71974 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 14:37:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 14:37:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-m08.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.210) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 14:37:21 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-m08.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN1-249f865e92a1; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:36:25 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.cef.5524bd5a (29679) for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:36:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:36:15 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1241015775" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.201 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=c5275nBKUweQweoBVDSOnf9hHZI_Mw_M0TVIuIzCuF6yPG7NRuUP X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1241015775 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't think for Tolkien to have decided to re-write with an eye to a round earth as opposed to a flat one means he would necessarily have to abandon all of the mythical elements of the story, but I for one would hate to lose such things as: "The servants of Morgoth were filled with amazement, but the Elves of the Outer Lands looked up in delight; and even as the Moon rose above the darkness in the west, Fingolfin let blow his silver trumpets and began his march into Middle-earth, and the shadows of his host went long and black before them." I know other writers who are very interested in exploring Tolkien's round-theory wihout ditching all the dragons and fantasy elements. Oshun **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631276x1201390200/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double click.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv) -------------------------------1241015775 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I don't think for= Tolkien to have decided to re-write with an eye to a round earth as oppos= ed to a flat one means he would necessarily have to abandon all of the myt= hical elements of the story, but I for one would hate to lose such things = as:
 

"The servants of Morgoth were filled with amazement= , but the Elves of the Outer Lands looked up in delight; and even as the M= oon rose above the darkness in the west, Fingolfin let blow his silver tru= mpets and began his march into Middle-earth, and the shadows of his host w= ent long and black before them."


I know other writers who are = very interested in exploring Tolkien's round-theory wihout ditching all th= e dragons and fantasy elements.

 

O= shun


Big savings on Dell= XPS Laptops and Desktops!
-------------------------------1241015775-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2613 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24960 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 20:05:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 20:05:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.245) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 20:05:54 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so1045791rvf.4 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:05:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.115.48.12 with SMTP id a12mr715380wak.161.1241035531777; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:05:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:05:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64beb5406773c0468b71a09 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=4Uz3Bu66kpHO1ub8lUFpCCCYQxhq2xXf_LJBLUSoKNNjLg6WMSS9 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e64beb5406773c0468b71a09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:33 PM, pandemonium_213 wrote: > Given that you've read a goodly chunk of Arda Reconstructed, what do you think it's trying to be? A scholarly work? Or a bigger and better (and illustrated!) version of the bits and pieces of essays that we rank amateurs read and write? ;^) I *just* finished the book ... I mean less than a minute ago. Of course, I had to come here first. :) After one reading and still processing, I'd describe it as 1) a compilation that any one of us with enough time and effort could have produced and 2) Kane's commentary on what he discovered during the course of such an analysis. Each chapter contains a table tracing the source material and several pages of commentary. The commentary describes the most significant issues involved in creating each chapter. The exception is where CT has already included a detailed analysis of the source material (e.g., *Of Maeglin*) or where the published version came more or less unaltered from a single source (e.g., the *Akallabeth*). In those instances, Kane does not include a table but discusses and comments on the chapter. On Point the First, this is primarily the extensive tables tracing the sources used to compile *The Silmarillion* that several others have already mentioned. As noted, any one of us with all of JRRT's published books could have done this ... but my goodness, what a chore it must have been! For this, I can't help but to be grateful to Kane (because I know myself well enough to know that I would have probably attempted this at some point if he hadn't done it first!) because this is an amazing reference, and the complexity of the source material really is mind-boggling. On Point the Second, I think this is where some people will take issue because there is a lot of opinion in this commentary aside from simply remarking on paragraphs that underwent particularly extensive revision or which drew from a complex array of sources. And some of that opinion is controversial. Kane takes issue with CT throughout the book and isn't particularly shy about expressing which decisions he found good or bad. I felt that the major points he proved across the entire analysis were well-defended. However, I felt like he fell short in acknowledging the shortcomings of his methodology. At the beginning of the book, he writes, "I have, of course, been mstly limited to comparing the published text with the texts printed in *The History of Middle-earth* (and to some extent *Unfinished Tales, The Children of Hurin, *and, in at least one instance, Tolkien's letters). It is possible, even likely, that some of the changes, omissions, and additions that I describe reflect textual material not included (for whatever reason) in those works, or some other source only available to Christopher (including, perhaps, personal conversations that he had with his father." (25) In my first thoughts on the book, written when I was about one-third of the way through, I felt like he did an acceptable job of keeping this in mind in his commentary. Some of the chapters that followed, however, fell a little short for me in this regard. I felt like judgments were too unequivocal given the acknowledged shortcomings of using only texts available to the average fan; for example, "Christopher's decisions to omit the bulk of the material on Finwe and Miriel and not include it as a separate chapter, as Tolkien clearly intended, and to remove other significant material regarding Nerdanel and Indis are very disappointing" (84). I felt like--disappointment aside (with which, for the record, I agree)--this wasn't a conclusion that could be drawn given the acknowledged shortcomings of the metholodology used to put the book together. I'd have to say that this was the book's weakest point, for me. > Well now. That sounds pretty authoritative to me. *snip* Anyway, again it strikes me that applying strict interpretation to fictional literature which is a created mythology treads on perilous ground. Yes, as the quote you chose illuminates, Kane seems to take a chronological approach to defining "canon." (Though, Valar be praised, he never uses *that word*. ;) His analysis is based on the fact that the newest sources take precedence over the old unless one can justify doing differently. And, at times, he does justify doing differently or acknowledge that he felt that CT made the correct choice in reverting to older material when a more recent source existed. For example, he expresses regret that CT didn't "bulk up" the chapter "Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin" with some of the more extensive and very old material from *The Fall of Gondolin* in BoLT2, where that material didn't conflict with JRRT's later work on the subject. But, generally, his approach is very much a chronological one. This is why, as I think I wrote to Oshun, I can't see this book changing how I create stories based on JRRT's writings. As you know well, my own approach to "canon" is not nearly so absolute or linear. ;) However, I hope that it will be useful for non-fiction, where I don't take *solely* a chronological approach, but it is one of the primary ways that I approach non-fiction writing about the texts. > Or failing that, at least state "It is my opinion that..." That would be helpful in some places in the book, I think. :) Though, an argument Kane makes that you may appreciate is that CT should not have stripped all mention of the historical/mythological sources of the stories in the Silm. Kane suggests that CT was put off by the fact that two different "traditions" were emerging--one passed by Aelfwine from his discussions with Pengolodh on Tol Eressea and another brought over to Middle-earth from Numenor based on knowledge passed to them by the Elves--and in the interest of consistency, CT just eliminated these references altogether from the published Silm. Kane argues that the appearance of a complex mythological history is important to the Silm. I don't think that I need to tell you that I agree, and in this case, I think that many canaticism-induced headaches would be avoided if this had been left as explicit as it was in JRRT's sources. Though I might be giving canatics too much credit. :) Okay, time to go home and, therefore, stop rambling! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e64beb5406773c0468b71a09 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:33 PM, pandemonium_213 <docbushwell@gmail.com> w= rote:
> Given that you've read = a goodly chunk of Arda Reconstructed, what do you think it's trying to = be? A scholarly work? Or a bigger and better (and illustrated!) version of = the bits and pieces of essays that we rank amateurs read and write? ;^)
=C2=A0
I just finished the book ... I mean le= ss than a minute ago. Of course, I had to come here first. :)
= =C2=A0
After one reading and still processing, I'd describe = it as 1) a compilation that any one of us with enough time and effort could= have produced and 2) Kane's commentary on what he discovered during th= e course of such an analysis. Each chapter contains a table tracing the sou= rce material and several pages of commentary. The commentary describes the = most significant issues involved in creating each chapter. The exception is= where CT has already included a detailed analysis of the source material (= e.g., Of Maeglin) or where the published version came more or less= unaltered from a single source (e.g., the Akallabeth). In those i= nstances, Kane does not include a table but discusses and comments on the c= hapter.
=C2=A0
On Point the First, this is primarily= the extensive tables tracing the sources used to compile The Silmarill= ion that several others have already mentioned. As noted, any one of u= s with all of JRRT's published books could have done this ... but my go= odness, what a chore it must have been! For this, I can't help but to b= e grateful to Kane (because I know myself well enough to know that I would = have probably attempted this at some point if he hadn't done it first!)= because this is an amazing reference, and the complexity of the source mat= erial really is mind-boggling.
=C2=A0
On Point the S= econd, I think this is where some people will take issue because there is a= lot of opinion in this commentary aside from simply remarking on paragraph= s that underwent particularly extensive revision or which drew from a compl= ex array of sources. And some of that opinion is controversial. Kane takes = issue with CT throughout the book and isn't particularly shy about expr= essing which decisions he found good or bad. I felt that the major points h= e proved across the entire analysis were well-defended. However, I felt lik= e he fell short in acknowledging the shortcomings of his methodology. At th= e beginning of the book, he writes,
=C2=A0
"I h= ave, of course, been mstly limited to comparing the published text with the= texts printed in The History of Middle-earth (and to some extent = Unfinished Tales, The Children of Hurin, and, in at least one inst= ance, Tolkien's letters). It is possible, even likely, that some of the= changes, omissions, and additions that I describe reflect textual material= not included (for whatever reason) in those works, or some other source on= ly available to Christopher (including, perhaps, personal conversations tha= t he had with his father." (25)
=C2=A0
In my fi= rst thoughts on the book, written when I was about one-third of the way thr= ough, I felt like he did an acceptable job of keeping this in mind in his c= ommentary. Some of the chapters that followed, however, fell a little short= for me in this regard. I felt like judgments were too unequivocal given th= e acknowledged shortcomings of using only texts available to the average fa= n; for example,=C2=A0"Christopher's decisions to omit the bulk of = the material on Finwe and Miriel and not include it as a separate chapter, = as Tolkien clearly intended, and to remove other significant material regar= ding Nerdanel and Indis are very disappointing" (84). I felt like--dis= appointment aside (with which, for the record, I agree)--this wasn't a = conclusion that could be drawn given the acknowledged shortcomings of the m= etholodology used to put the book together. I'd have to say that this w= as the book's weakest point, for me.
=C2=A0
>= Well now. That sounds pretty authoritative to me.=C2=A0*snip* Anyway, agai= n it strikes me that applying strict interpretation to fictional literature= which is a created mythology treads on perilous ground.
=C2=A0<= /div>
Yes, as the quote you chose illuminates, Kane seems to take a ch= ronological approach to defining "canon." (Though, Valar be prais= ed, he never uses that word. ;) His analysis is based on the fact = that the newest sources take precedence over the old unless one can justify= doing differently. And, at times, he does justify doing differently or ack= nowledge that he felt that CT made the correct choice in reverting to older= material when a more recent source existed. For example, he expresses regr= et that CT didn't "bulk up" the chapter "Of Tuor and the= Fall of Gondolin" with some of the more extensive and very old materi= al from The Fall of Gondolin in BoLT2, where that material didn= 9;t conflict with JRRT's later work on the subject. But, generally, his= approach is very much a chronological one.
=C2=A0
T= his is why, as I think I wrote to Oshun, I can't see this book changing= how I create stories based on JRRT's writings. As you know well, my ow= n approach to "canon" is not nearly so absolute or linear. ;) How= ever, I hope that it will be useful for non-fiction, where I don't take= solely a chronological approach, but it is one of the primary way= s that I approach non-fiction writing about the texts.
=C2=A0
> Or failing that, at least state "It is my opinion that.= .."
=C2=A0
That would be helpful in some places = in the book, I think. :)
=C2=A0
Though, an argument K= ane makes that you may appreciate is that CT should not have stripped all m= ention of the historical/mythological sources of the stories in the Silm. K= ane suggests that CT was put off by the fact that two different "tradi= tions" were emerging--one passed by Aelfwine from his discussions with= Pengolodh on Tol Eressea and another brought over to Middle-earth from Num= enor based on knowledge passed to them by the Elves--and in the interest of= consistency, CT=C2=A0just eliminated these references altogether from the = published Silm. Kane argues that the appearance of a complex mythological h= istory is important to the Silm. I don't think that I need to tell you = that I agree, and in this case, I think that many canaticism-induced headac= hes would be avoided if this had been left as explicit as it was in JRRT= 9;s sources. Though I might be giving canatics too much credit. :)
<= div>=C2=A0
Okay, time to go home and, therefore, stop rambling!<= /div>
=C2=A0
Dawn
--0016e64beb5406773c0468b71a09-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2614 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54039 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 20:35:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 20:35:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 20:35:56 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imo-m13.mail.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-349f8b9cd39c; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:34:21 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c26.59192531 (29679) for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:34:05 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1241037245" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.202 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=_BRf9CUwFuHNhbeaqaT7KVCZHgSfwPonnsMad79_rSnwqQe3Owlv X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1241037245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kane seems to take a chronological approach to defining "canon." Very useful points, Dawn. The overriding problem for me with ranking sources chronologically with the latest being most correct and the earlier versions wrong, is that Tolkien had not finished his own emendations. So, his intent to change something that will throw off numerous other points which have to be reconciled to be consistent simply leaves one with the same mystery. Does one then throw out every related unreconciled point and story thread? Ooops we just lost the storyline entirely! To me that makes the chronological method impossible and irrational. If I am trying to write non-fiction, and provide resources for other readers and writers, I will do my best to provide the maximum amount of cross-referencing and backup. If I am not able to do so for reasons of space or time, I will try to make that clear. Many of my SWG character bios contain disclaimers for the purpose of allowing the reader to accept what might be in some a minimalist approach and allow them to do their own further research if they like. Some questions are so complicated and fuzzy that it would take a doctoral thesis to present a defensible position. As far as my own writing of fiction based upon Tolkien's work, I'm after a good story that makes the points I want to make. I will pick and chose and do my best to make my own story internally consistent. If someone reads what I write and thinks I do not care about the original texts, then they very likely haven't read the sources carefully themselves. Not to say I never make a mistake in a detail that I would have respected had I known it, just that I am picking parts to emphasize and reflecting my personal taste. Hey! It's fiction (and in my case, I would not call it AU, unless I change the final outcome). **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631276x1201390200/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double click.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv) -------------------------------1241037245 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Kane seems to take a chronological approach= to defining "canon."
 
Very useful points, Dawn. The overriding problem for me with rank= ing sources chronologically with the latest being most correct and the ear= lier versions wrong, is that Tolkien had not finished his own emendations.= So, his intent to change something that will throw off&= nbsp;numerous other points which have to be reconciled to be consisten= t simply leaves one with the same mystery. Does one then throw out every r= elated unreconciled point and story thread? Ooops we just lost the storyli= ne entirely! To me that makes the chronological method impossible and irra= tional.
 
If I am trying to write non-fiction, = and provide resources for other readers and writers, I will do my best to = provide the maximum amount of cross-referencing and backup. If I am not ab= le to do so for reasons of space or time, I will try to make that clear. M= any of my SWG character bios contain disclaimers for the purpose of allowi= ng the reader to accept what might be in some a minimalist approach a= nd allow them to do their own further research if they like. Some que= stions are so complicated and fuzzy that it would take a doctoral the= sis to present a defensible position.
 
As = far as my own writing of fiction based upon Tolkien's work, I'm after= a good story that makes the points I want to make. I will pick a= nd chose and do my best to make my own story internally consistent. If some= one reads what I write and thinks I do not care about the original texts, = then they very likely haven't read the sources carefully themselves. Not t= o say I never make a mistake in a detail that I would have respected had I= known it, just that I am picking parts to emphasize and reflecting my per= sonal taste. Hey! It's fiction (and in my case, I would not call it AU, un= less I change the final outcome).
 
 -------------------------------1241037245-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2615 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7973 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 23:20:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 23:20:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.177) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 23:20:37 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j4so512861wah.23 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:20:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.115.14.1 with SMTP id r1mr845457wai.27.1241047230729; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:20:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:20:30 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64af308564f420468b9d318 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Ry1PnO2lBrQF--F9TQSeZIy0d195APRfg0hMGXeDYyTkifaDtaMK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e64af308564f420468b9d318 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 4:34 PM, wrote: > The overriding problem for me with ranking sources chronologically with the latest being most correct and the earlier versions wrong, is that Tolkien had not finished his own emendations. So, his *intent* to change something that will throw off numerous other points which have to be reconciled to be consistent simply leaves one with the same mystery. I totally agree with you. I think the chronological approach has its place, but it's not always appropriate either. So many major issues still seemed to be in the works in JRRT's own mind: the shape of the world being perhaps the biggest, but the parentage of Gil-galad and the Feanorian twins at Losgar are perennial favorites too. :) I find myself balking at any attempt to find a "right answer"; lacking a kickass Ouija board, I don't think that's possible. As I've been thinking more and more lately about how I use the texts, I also find myself placing some weight on the evolution of the texts. For example, I take JRRT's vacillating over which of the Feanorian brothers fostered Elrond and Elros to mean that it is possible that he viewed them both as capable of kindness and mercy. When answering the question "Did Maedhros threaten to kill Elrond and Elros at Sirion?" that played a significant role in deciding that, no, I think it's very difficult (though never impossible!) to defend that he did. Looking at just the "final word" on any single matter just doesn't give that depth. Of course, I'm off on a tangent here. Kane himself, in introducing the book, says that he does not attempt to trace the history of the sources of the published text, just those versions that were used to actually create it. (And no wonder! Talk of Herculean tasks!!) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e64af308564f420468b9d318 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 4:34 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
> The overriding problem= for me with ranking sources chronologically with the latest being most co= rrect and the earlier versions wrong, is that Tolkien had not finished his= own emendations. So, his=C2=A0intent to change something that will= =C2=A0throw off=C2=A0numerous other points=C2=A0which have to be reconcile= d to be consistent simply leaves one with the same mystery.

I total= ly agree with you. I think the chronological approach has its place, but it= 's not always appropriate either. So many major issues still seemed to = be in the works in JRRT's own mind: the shape of the world being perhap= s the biggest, but the parentage of Gil-galad and the Feanorian twins at Lo= sgar are perennial favorites too. :) I find myself balking at any attempt t= o find a "right answer"; lacking a kickass Ouija board, I don'= ;t think that's possible.

As I've been thinking more and mo= re lately about how I use the texts, I also find myself placing some weight= on the evolution of the texts. For example, I take JRRT's vacillating = over which of the Feanorian brothers fostered Elrond and Elros to mean that= it is possible that he viewed them both as capable of kindness and mercy. = When answering the question "Did Maedhros threaten to kill Elrond and = Elros at Sirion?" that played a significant role in deciding that, no,= I think it's very difficult (though never impossible!) to defend that = he did. Looking at just the "final word" on any single matter jus= t doesn't give that depth.

Of course, I'm off on a tangent = here. Kane himself, in introducing the book, says that he does not attempt = to trace the history of the sources of the published text, just those versi= ons that were used to actually create it. (And no wonder! Talk of Herculean= tasks!!)

Dawn


--
~oOo~<= br>Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e64af308564f420468b9d318-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2616 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68710 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 23:29:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 23:29:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.224) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 23:29:11 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id g37so1007647rvb.23 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:28:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.180.1 with SMTP id c1mr866488waf.206.1241047690409; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:28:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:28:10 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636417f81bc76460468b9eed0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=tO0IVST9HOJ0ChU3OuP1xRiF147O1uwF6P0ttkcOqx8Vx9S-CyZ4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636417f81bc76460468b9eed0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Marie Prosser wrote: > And to be fair, his interest in the character obviously goes beyond choosing it as a moniker. Someone even asked him that ;). I don't tend to think of myself when reading about or discussing Felagund either. To begin with, of course, he's a guy and I'm not. :) We do have some things in common (we're both blond, perhaps too nice at times, both like spying on men in the woods ... whoops, did I say that last bit out loud?) but, at times, I'll be using him as an example of a "canon Mary Sue," and I'll think, "Dang. I'm talking about my namesake." Or people will laugh and say it's obvious that I should like Finarfin, and I'll wonder why before realizing, oh yes, *because I'm supposed to be related to him!* But I don't even write about him that much, and when I do, he has a tendency to appear only in humor and satire. He's not a character I've quite figured out how to be serious about yet. Dawn "not Felagund" Felagund -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636417f81bc76460468b9eed0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Marie Prosser <mithluin@hotmail.com> wrot= e:
> And to be fair, his interest in the character obviously goes bey= ond choosing it as a moniker.=C2=A0 Someone even asked him that ;).
I don't tend to think of myself when reading about or discussing Felag= und either. To begin with, of course, he's a guy and I'm not. :) We= do have some things in common (we're both blond, perhaps too nice at t= imes, both like spying on men in the woods ... whoops, did I say that last = bit out loud?) but, at times, I'll be using him as an example of a &quo= t;canon Mary Sue," and I'll think, "Dang. I'm talking abo= ut my namesake." Or people will laugh and say it's obvious that I = should like Finarfin, and I'll wonder why before realizing, oh yes, = because I'm supposed to be related to him! But I don't even wri= te about him that much, and when I do, he has a tendency to appear only in = humor and satire. He's not a character I've quite figured out how t= o be serious about yet.

Dawn "not Felagund" Felagund

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= /a>
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org
--001636417f81bc76460468b9eed0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2617 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84032 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 23:31:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 23:31:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.225) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 23:31:11 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id g37so968350rvb.29 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:30:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.161.11 with SMTP id j11mr860427wae.65.1241047810803; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:30:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <26685060.1240972757261.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <26685060.1240972757261.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:30:10 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f9a4aee989a90468b9f59e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=OdcBs7ASkIdcaSmAw3EIPi7ZoCwhk7vAuI_qk3Kcz80jvH8RU3cE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001485f9a4aee989a90468b9f59e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Diana Nevins wrote: > Somehow I'd missed hearing about it before now! Needless to say, an emergency Amazon.com order has been placed, and I should have a copy of my own just in time for some weekend reading. Hooray! :) If you get the urge to sneak out of lurkerland again, I'd love to know what you think of it! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001485f9a4aee989a90468b9f59e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Diana Nevins <dlnevins@earthlink.net> w= rote:
> Somehow I'd missed hearing about it before now!=C2=A0 Nee= dless to say, an emergency Amazon.com order has been placed, and I should h= ave a copy of my own just in time for some weekend reading.

Hooray! = :) If you get the urge to sneak out of lurkerland again, I'd love to kn= ow what you think of it!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhave= ns.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001485f9a4aee989a90468b9f59e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2618 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10284 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2009 23:39:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2009 23:39:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2009 23:39:33 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-349f8e5063b; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:38:46 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d5b.4503a7be (29679) for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:38:41 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1241048321" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Kane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=97CN12U4OoNYb6OicQpsC5AaybfwANzaH-Q5CqjuT_Qk3aA6E6sm X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1241048321 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So many major issues still seemed to be in the works in JRRT's own min= d: the shape of the world being perhaps the biggest, but the parentage of= Gil-galad and the Feanorian twins at Losgar are perennial favorites too.= I solve the Maglor or Maedhros problem of who fostered the twins by an= swering it as both! Then there is the popular fanon (so wrong!) that Celeg= orm killed Elur=E9d and Elur=EDn. My very first, way back when, bits of r= esearch were on the one or two Glorfindels question, how old was Legolas = and was he Thranduil's only son or a younger one (very popular in fanon, = but attacts serious attempts to back it up with inferences from canon). Do= n't even want to touch the numerous hair color controversies. Funny stuf= f! **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.a= twola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631276x1201390200/aol?redir=3Dhttp:%2F%2Fa= d.double click.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv) -------------------------------1241048321 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
 
So many major issues still seemed to be in t= he works in JRRT's own mind: the shape of the world being perhaps the bi= ggest, but the parentage of Gil-galad and the Feanorian twins at Losgar = are perennial favorites too.
I s= olve the Maglor or Maedhros problem of who fostered the twins by answering= it as both! Then there is the popular fanon (so wrong!) that Celeg= orm killed Elur=E9d and Elur=EDn. My very first, way back when, bits of re= search were on the one or two Glorfindels question, how old was = Legolas and was he Thranduil's only son or a younger one (very popular in f= anon, but attacts serious attempts to back it up with inferences from cano= n). Don't even want to touch the numerous hair color controversies. Funny = stuff!

Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops an= d Desktops!
-------------------------------1241048321-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2619 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35407 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2009 19:06:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2009 19:06:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.228) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2009 19:06:05 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f9so1557331rvb.7 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:05:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.180.1 with SMTP id c1mr1715284waf.206.1241118305357; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:05:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636417f81b710190468ca5f10 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: MEFA Announcement: Changes to the 2009 Awards X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rHBy6GA7Gw_jv4PqzKnel4pqKTA_WaOXpVHCNwG5Zj8Aqti6MX8m X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636417f81b710190468ca5f10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, I am passing this notice on for Marta regarding changes to the 20= 09 MEFAs, since I know that many of you participate in the awards in varyin= g capacities. Dawn ----- Hey guys, I've been working over the last seve= ral months with some of you (particularly Tanaqui, Aranel Took, Inkling, Ra= dbooks, and elliska =E2=80=93 THANK YOU!) to figure out how we can improve = the awards for the 2009 year. We are all looking forward to the upcoming aw= ards and I will have some specific dates of when we expect to start soon. T= here are a few changes that need to be made to the website, but once they a= re, off we go again. :-) [Promoters: You may if you like forward this on t= o your group. I leave it up to your discretion.] When the 2009 awards do s= tart, I think you'll notice some nice improvements to areas like the FAQs (= we're adding a few and hopefully making them all more useful). There are al= so some changes to award policy that I want to discuss with you all. Many = of these changes affect authors. If you are nominating a story that looks l= ike it would be affected, please mention these changes to the author so the= y can make the decision that best represents their story. FICLETS AND DR= ABBLES In previous years we have let drabbles and other fixed-length ficle= ts compete against each other in special subcategories so that they didn't = run against short stories, let alone novels =E2=80=93 a definite Good Thing= as far as it goes. But because there weren't always enough of the longer f= ixed-legnth ficlets, those pieces often ended up going into their third-cho= ice categories, and some authors have noted that they'd rather they run aga= inst full-length stories in their first- or second-choice categories. So n= ext year we will be trying something slightly different. Drabbles (=3D=3D p= ieces exactly 100 words long) will still compete in special subcategories w= ithin all the main subcategories. Drabble authors should select three main = category choices just like they did in the past, and don't need to do anyth= ing new. Longer ficlets (=3D=3D for 2009, a piece up to 1,000 words but no= t also a drabble) *may* compete against other ficlets but may also compete = against full-length story. It's up to the author. If the author wants to co= mpete against other ficlets they should select the new "Genres: Ficlets" ma= in category and two others of their choice. This will work like the "Genres= : Longer Works" category in that you are guaranteed to compete against othe= r ficlets but not necessarily about the same type of character or time peri= od. As with all categories, your order choice matters. If you want to comp= ete against other ficlets you should select "Genres: Ficlets" as your first= -choice category. Series will mostly be handled along the same lines. Shor= t drabble series (up to ~5 drabbles) will compete in the Drabble subcategor= ies. Longer drabble series and series of longer ficlets may compete in the = "Genres: Ficlets" main category if they select that category. These longer = series can also compete against full-length stories in any of the main cate= gories if the author prefers. Just to be clear, series may be longer than = the 1,000 word limit and still compete in Ficlets, if each part is less tha= n 1,000 words. Of course if you have a ficlet series of thirty triple drabb= les (9k words) your liaison may raise an eyebrow and suggest you move it to= a category where it could compete on more equal footing. We'll handle thos= e rare instances on a case-by-case basis. ***************************** R= EVIEWING GOALS By popular request, we're going to extend the date you have= to set your reviewing goal (if you choose to do this). You'll have until o= ne month after categorization is finalized. ***************************** = OTHER NEW MAIN CATEGORIES We decided to offer a few new categories this y= ear in addition to the Ficlets one mentioned above. Under Genres, you will= now be able to select "Character Studies." This is good for pieces that ar= e more about exploring a certain character rather than being drama, humor, = etc. (The characters don't need to be canonical; character studies of origi= nal characters are allowed as well.) The Times subcategory will be divided= into the following categories: =3D=3D> Times: First Age and Prior =3D=3D>= Times: Second and Early Third Age (through 2850 T.A./1250 S.R.) =3D=3D> Ti= mes: Pre-Ring War (2851-3017 T.A./1251-1418 S.R.) =3D=3D> Times: Ring War (= 3018-3019 T.A./1418-1419 S.R.) =3D=3D> Times: Post-Ring War and Beyond (aft= er 3019 T.A./1419 S.R.) =3D=3D> Times: Modern Times =3D=3D> Times: Multi-Ag= e In general, Pre-Ring War will cover the events of _The Hobbit_ and the c= hildhoods and early adventures of Lord of the Rings characters; Ring War wi= ll cover the Quest and the Ring War itself; and post-Ring War will include = events that happened after the Ring War, whether in the Third or Fourth Age= . As always, the dates are suggestions more than hard rules; if you have a= story that is technically set in 3017 that you feel fits better in Ring Wa= r than the Pre-Ring War period, you are free to select that. Similarly, you= may feel a story set in the tail end of the First Age fits better with Sec= ond and Early Third Age; again, that's your decision. You are really select= ing what kind of story you would want to run against rather than giving an = absolute description of your own story. (If you do decide to do this, you m= ight want to note it in the summary, just so your readers aren't surprised.= ) ***************************** BANNERS We have devised a system that re= flects both of the options in the recent poll. Authors will have some banne= rs made available to them that don't require customization (so they can be = used right away), but banner makers will also be able to make banners avail= able to all categories (and winning authors may customize these banners the= mselves or request that one of our volunteers help them). I'll discuss mor= e details about this with the banner artists after we get through categoriz= ing, and authors will be informed at the end of the awards. It's hardly a s= ecret, but it's a little technical to describe in detail to people who won'= t be making or using banners. Looking forward to seeing what you guys will= nominate! Yours, Marta (MEFA Admin.) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://th= emidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636417f81b710190468ca5f10 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,
=C2=A0
I am passing this notice on for = Marta regarding changes to the 2009 MEFAs, since I know that many of you pa= rticipate in the awards in varying capacities.
=C2=A0
Dawn
=C2=A0
-----
=C2=A0
Hey g= uys,

I've been working over the last several months with some of= you (particularly
Tanaqui, Aranel Took, Inkling, Radbooks, and elliska = =E2=80=93
THANK YOU!) to figure out how we can improve the awards for th= e 2009
year. We are all looking forward to the upcoming awards and I wi= ll have some
specific dates of when we expect to start soon. There are a= few changes that
need to be made to the website, but once they are, off= we go again. :-)

[Promoters: You may if you like forward this on t= o your group. I leave it up to
your discretion.]

When the 2009 aw= ards do start, I think you'll notice some nice improvements to
areas= like the FAQs (we're adding a few and hopefully making them all more useful). There are also some changes to award policy that I want to disc= uss with
you all.

Many of these changes affect authors. If you ar= e nominating a story that looks
like it would be affected, please mentio= n these changes to the author so they
can make the decision that best r= epresents their story.



FICLETS AND DRABBLES

In previo= us years we have let drabbles and other fixed-length ficlets
compete aga= inst each other in special subcategories so that they didn't run
ag= ainst short stories, let alone novels =E2=80=93 a definite Good Thing as fa= r as it
goes. But because there weren't always enough of the longer = fixed-legnth
ficlets, those pieces often ended up going into their third= -choice categories,
and some authors have noted that they'd rather = they run against full-length
stories in their first- or second-choice ca= tegories.

So next year we will be trying something slightly differen= t. Drabbles (=3D=3D pieces
exactly 100 words long) will still compete i= n special subcategories within all
the main subcategories. Drabble autho= rs should select three main category
choices just like they did in the p= ast, and don't need to do anything new.

Longer ficlets (=3D=3D = for 2009, a piece up to 1,000 words but not also a drabble)
*may* compet= e against other ficlets but may also compete against full-length
story. = It's up to the author. If the author wants to compete against other
= ficlets they should select the new "Genres: Ficlets" main catego= ry and two
others of their choice. This will work like the "Genres:= Longer Works" category
in that you are guaranteed to compete again= st other ficlets but not necessarily
about the same type of character o= r time period.

As with all categories, your order choice matters. If= you want to compete
against other ficlets you should select "Genre= s: Ficlets" as
your first-choice category.

Series will most= ly be handled along the same lines. Short drabble series (up to
~5 drabb= les) will compete in the Drabble subcategories. Longer drabble series
an= d series of longer ficlets may compete in the "Genres: Ficlets" m= ain category
if they select that category. These longer series can also= compete against
full-length stories in any of the main categories if th= e author prefers.

Just to be clear, series may be longer than the 1,= 000 word limit and still
compete in Ficlets, if each part is less than = 1,000 words. Of course if you have
a ficlet series of thirty triple drab= bles (9k words) your liaison may raise an
eyebrow and suggest you move i= t to a category where it could compete on more
equal footing. We'll= handle those rare instances on a case-by-case basis.

**************= ***************

REVIEWING GOALS

By popular request, we're= going to extend the date you have to set your
reviewing goal (if you c= hoose to do this). You'll have until one month after
categorization = is finalized.

*****************************

OTHER NEW MAIN CA= TEGORIES

We decided to offer a few new categories this year in addit= ion to the
Ficlets one mentioned above.

Under Genres, you will n= ow be able to select "Character Studies." This
is good for pie= ces that are more about exploring a certain character
rather than being = drama, humor, etc. (The characters don't need to be
canonical; char= acter studies of original characters are allowed as well.)

The Times= subcategory will be divided into the following categories:

=3D=3D&g= t; Times: First Age and Prior
=3D=3D> Times: Second and Early Third A= ge (through 2850 T.A./1250 S.R.)
=3D=3D> Times: Pre-Ring War (2851-3= 017 T.A./1251-1418 S.R.)
=3D=3D> Times: Ring War (3018-3019 T.A./1418= -1419 S.R.)
=3D=3D> Times: Post-Ring War and Beyond (after 3019 T.A./= 1419 S.R.)
=3D=3D> Times: Modern Times
=3D=3D> Times: Multi-Age=

In general, Pre-Ring War will cover the events of _The Hobbit_ and= the
childhoods and early adventures of Lord of the Rings characters; Ri= ng War will
cover the Quest and the Ring War itself; and post-Ring War w= ill include events
that happened after the Ring War, whether in the Thi= rd or Fourth Age.

As always, the dates are suggestions more than har= d rules; if you have a story
that is technically set in 3017 that you fe= el fits better in Ring War than the
Pre-Ring War period, you are free t= o select that. Similarly, you may feel a
story set in the tail end of th= e First Age fits better with Second and Early
Third Age; again, that'= ;s your decision. You are really selecting what kind of
story you would= want to run against rather than giving an absolute description
of your = own story. (If you do decide to do this, you might want to note it in
th= e summary, just so your readers aren't surprised.)

************= *****************

BANNERS

We have devised a system that refle= cts both of the options in the recent poll.
Authors will have some banne= rs made available to them that don't require
customization (so they = can be used right away), but banner makers will also be
able to make ba= nners available to all categories (and winning authors may
customize the= se banners themselves or request that one of our volunteers help
them).<= br>
I'll discuss more details about this with the banner artists aft= er we
get through categorizing, and authors will be informed at the end= of the awards.
It's hardly a secret, but it's a little technica= l to describe in detail to
people who won't be making or using banne= rs.

Looking forward to seeing what you guys will nominate!

Y= ours,

Marta (MEFA Admin.)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--001636417f81b710190468ca5f10-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2620 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10251 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2009 19:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2009 19:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2009 19:56:15 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1241121326; bh=n1o53RtMnQhmQUmqt7nn9w5/aWmmmI6TKVGXl0dJAsA=; h=Received:Received:Date:Message-ID:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-eGroups-Auth:X-eGroups-Application:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:From:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=pc1KxI2M/jy9HRPRxeTBZ5HnGAzvASuk4E8q15r7JOxGU/4c1Uk82xM1/uSqN3Yr0SUVlAYyaHdZGvpiIwKZzUmEVW8qvgLeHA8+6ioP/QbhkOavpqQUH88X8FLr7oTs Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Apr 2009 19:55:26 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Apr 2009 19:55:26 -0000 Date: 30 Apr 2009 19:55:25 -0000 Message-ID: <1241121325.185.19546.w7@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the SilmarillionWritersGuild group: As planned, we are reconsidering whether to leave this group's message archive open for the public to search and read. Currently, all messages posted to the group are viewable by the public. Please indicate whether leaving the message archive open for public reading is preferable to you, or whether you'd prefer to return the message archive to members-only. We welcome comments on this matter during the month of May at moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org. o Yes, leave the message archive readable by the public. o No, revert the message archive to reading by members only. o I don't have a preference. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=2855374 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2621 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80380 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2009 20:04:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2009 20:04:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n36b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.150) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2009 20:04:25 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Apr 2009 20:04:02 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Apr 2009 20:04:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:04:01 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Announce: yes X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Mod Post:: The Yahoo! Message Archive: Should It Remain Public? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Dv52-bMfwdC4vkU6q3l2naYmHWWvZARhxTzmJGek4I7GBAoOde7B X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Greetings, all, Around this time last year, we asked SWG members to vote o= n whether to open our Yahoo! message archive to the public or leave it memb= ers-only. Until that point, a person had to join the Yahoo! group in order = to read messages posted to it, and some felt that the research and discussi= ons shared on the group might be valuable to others in the Tolkien communit= y who might not otherwise wish to join. The vote favored opening the Yahoo!= message archive to the public by quite a bit, and the change was put into = place last spring. However, we (the moderators of SWG) promised to make thi= s change only if we could revisit it in year's time to make sure that, afte= r a year of having the message archive publicly readable, group members wer= e still comfortable with this change. Well, time flies, and it is a year l= ater, so we are reconsidering the question as promised. Anyone who cares to= comment on this matter is welcome to do so. I have set up a poll for Yahoo= ! group members to indicate whether they're comfortable leaving the group a= s is (i.e., open to public readership) or would like to revert to members-o= nly. It is only one question and shouldn't take more than a minute to compl= ete. I appreciate any and all responses. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sil= marillionWritersGuild/surveys?id=3D2855374 Also, we welcome any comments p= eople would like to provide at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT or= g. Thanks and best regards, Dawn F. SWG owner and moderator From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2622 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72843 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2009 20:24:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2009 20:24:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2009 20:24:13 -0000 X-Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mail.aol.com [172.20.107.65]) by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-349fa08892b8; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:22:34 -0400 X-Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-349fa088467; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:22:28 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.bfb.56ef29e3 (30737) for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:22:13 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1241122933" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 172.20.107.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post:: The Yahoo! Message Archive: Should ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=TzbBW59k_io-1NYel2l2PSoSYfM058SiDm9ijR4mDLPlsxd50rZt X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1241122933 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My question is have you had any problems? I don't know of any? Are we being spammed, stalked, or sued for anything? LOL **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs) -------------------------------1241122933 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
My question is ha= ve you had any problems? I don't know of any? Are we being spammed, stalke= d, or sued for anything? LOL
 -------------------------------1241122933-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2623 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15650 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2009 20:26:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2009 20:26:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m13.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.101) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2009 20:26:00 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imo-m13.mail.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN1-249fa08f9133; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:24:25 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c47.572b0d3a (30737) for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:24:15 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1241123055" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=S2yyZ2a1UDrB9BMj39_DY8n7u0Hypa95TEXOkWnEtI4t8TU2EAMJ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1241123055 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I really have no basis upon which to make a decision on this. I haven't heard of problems. If there have been I'd like to know what they are. Or do people feel it inhibits their freedom of expression. It seems like a mighty board group to me for that to be a factor. Anybody can sign up as a member. **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs) -------------------------------1241123055 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I really have no = basis upon which to make a decision on this. I haven't heard of problems. = If there have been I'd like to know what they are. Or do people feel it in= hibits their freedom of expression. It seems like a mighty board group to = me for that to be a factor. Anybody can sign up as a member.
<= DIV CLASS=3D"aol_ad_footer" ID=3D"3b04702d91b16e401427d25b73c76f45">
Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops! -------------------------------1241123055-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2624 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17000 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2009 22:04:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2009 22:04:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.242) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2009 22:04:17 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so2793845rvf.0 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:03:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.200.2 with SMTP id x2mr1756928waf.83.1241128996762; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:03:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:03:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636458000f8f6300468ccdccf X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post:: The Yahoo! Message Archive: Should ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=s2rNp7Now1dC3JpBAhuw6Is_6BAD18CLLLi6bajuUq6-_ceWzWgd X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636458000f8f6300468ccdccf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:22 PM, wrote: > My question is have you had any problems? I don't know of any? Are we being spammed, stalked, or sued for anything? LOL I don't know of any problems. It's just being brought up because we promised that we would address it again in a year. So here we are. :) If there haven't been problems, it should be an easy matter to resolve. If there have, it's a good opportunity for people to make them known and see them resolved. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636458000f8f6300468ccdccf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:22 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
> My question is have yo= u had any problems? I don't know of any? Are we being spammed, stalked= , or sued for anything? LOL

I don't know of any pr= oblems. It's just being brought up because we promised that we would ad= dress it again in a year. So here we are. :) If there haven't been prob= lems, it should be an easy matter to resolve. If there have, it's a goo= d opportunity for people to make them known and see them resolved.

= Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/http://www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org
--001636458000f8f6300468ccdccf-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2625 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69201 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2009 22:15:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2009 22:15:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.242) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2009 22:15:37 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so1324096rvf.0 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:15:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.200.2 with SMTP id x2mr1762729waf.83.1241129735978; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:15:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:15:35 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364580000880500468cd09fb X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New poll for SilmarillionWritersGuild X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=O3wRzeh-0Aly3svMpa8hMKadZmPak_b2boDNQQCFDtdR2-fJH0HO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364580000880500468cd09fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:24 PM, wrote: > I really have no basis upon which to make a decision on this. You're welcome not to vote, if you don't feel qualified to do so. :) The poll is a way for people to anonymously report their feelings on the matter; I specifically set it *not* to reveal the identities of the people who vote. No matter how many times I say that we want to hear people's opinions, I know that there are people who will be reluctant to speak because they are speaking critically and don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers. So the poll hopefully allows them to express an opinion (if they have one) anonymously. As noted earlier, this is being brought up because these were the conditions we set when debating last year whether to open the message archive to a public readership. Some people were reluctant about the change, and this was our way of assuring them that it wouldn't be something we'd be stuck with forever, if it didn't work out for them. To the best of my knowledge, there haven't been any problems or any reasons to change what was, last year, an overwhelming decision to open the archive to the public, but since these were the terms under which the change was made, then I have to keep them. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364580000880500468cd09fb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:24 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
> I really have no basis= upon which to make a decision on this.

You're we= lcome not to vote, if you don't feel qualified to do so. :) The poll is= a way for people to anonymously report their feelings on the matter; I spe= cifically set it not to reveal the identities of the people who vote= . No matter how many times I say that we want to hear people's opinions= , I know that there are people who will be reluctant to speak because they = are speaking critically and don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers.= So the poll hopefully allows them to express an opinion (if they have one)= anonymously.

As noted earlier, this is being brought up because th= ese were the conditions we set when debating last year whether to open the = message archive to a public readership. Some people were reluctant about th= e change, and this was our way of assuring them that it wouldn't be som= ething we'd be stuck with forever, if it didn't work out for them. = To the best of my knowledge, there haven't been any problems or any rea= sons to change what was, last year, an overwhelming decision to open the ar= chive to the public, but since these were the terms under which the change = was made, then I have to keep them.

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Daw= n Felagund
http:= //themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364580000880500468cd09fb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2626 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3883 invoked from network); 1 May 2009 03:54:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2009 03:54:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.92.147) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2009 03:54:15 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 9so1827476qwj.12 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:53:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.89.138 with SMTP id e10mr1940037qcm.13.1241149994917; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:53:14 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ef1cc8f60180468d1c014 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: May 2009 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=1NQ85JikqdSsiT634XbXgHPHV0Q1yWJ2OxkerFui98LxAeBu1mfx X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364ef1cc8f60180468d1c014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, I have just posted the May 2009 newsletter: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php There have been some updates to the site, most notably a new reference essay by Kitt Otter, "The Stars That Varda Made," is now available under Essays. The MFAQ (most frequently asked question) of "What counts as Silmfic?" has been made into an official FAQ. And there are challenges and lots of news and announcements from groups outside of the SWG in Around the World and Web. Of course, the best part of the newsletter is the columns, and this month's doesn't disappoint. Oshun has written an incredibly in-depth piece on a character who is easily overlooked: Elenwe, the wife of Turgon. She draws on sources outside the Silm to illuminate a character whose complexity and importance isn't easily gleaned from the Silm alone. And Darth Fingon has written another fantastic Linguistic Foolery, this month on 22 words you never would have imagined that Tolkien created in Elvish. Drawing from wordlists in *Parma Eldalamberon, *these words are surprising, bizarre, and sometimes very funny. You might never look at Elves (or JRRT!) the same. Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364ef1cc8f60180468d1c014 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I have just posted the May 2009 newsletter:

http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php

There have bee= n some updates to the site, most notably a new reference essay by Kitt Otte= r, "The Stars That Varda Made," is now available under Essays. Th= e MFAQ (most frequently asked question) of "What counts as Silmfic?&qu= ot; has been made into an official FAQ. And there are challenges and lots o= f news and announcements from groups outside of the SWG in Around the World= and Web.

Of course, the best part of the newsletter is the columns= , and this month's doesn't disappoint. Oshun has written an incredi= bly in-depth piece on a character who is easily overlooked: Elenwe, the wif= e of Turgon. She draws on sources outside the Silm to illuminate a characte= r whose complexity and importance isn't easily gleaned from the Silm al= one. And Darth Fingon has written another fantastic Linguistic Foolery, thi= s month on 22 words you never would have imagined that Tolkien created in E= lvish. Drawing from wordlists in Parma Eldalamberon, these words a= re surprising, bizarre, and sometimes very funny. You might never look at E= lves (or JRRT!) the same.

Enjoy!

Dawn

-= -
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org
--0016364ef1cc8f60180468d1c014-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2627 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91700 invoked from network); 1 May 2009 03:57:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2009 03:57:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2009 03:57:42 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2009 03:57:23 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2009 03:57:23 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 03:57:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: May 2009 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ZQ24BIAKYqDbwnAEN3deJTmQCYnWzYQLN8X0Vvhc0yk4OMHXGOm3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund ... and I forgot to mention (sorry, it is getting late and is way past my b= edtime!) ... Darth Fingon is asking for your burning language-related ques= tions for future installments of Linguistic Foolery. Send your questions to= us at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and we'll see that t= hey get passed on to him. And I think that should do it. :) Namarie, Dawn= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2628 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13512 invoked from network); 1 May 2009 04:01:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2009 04:01:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.159.7) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2009 04:01:46 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-d06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-349fa73d21ef; Fri, 01 May 2009 00:00:18 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c44.2edba880 (42805) for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 00:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 00:00:11 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1241150410" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: May 2009 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=SK2Dfsk8wwi-aXGmnULHzNcM9g3Yx7T5CjX70ThkhIi12gvPa-Km X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1241150410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks gorgeous Dawn. Thanks so much for all the work.. **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs) -------------------------------1241150410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Looks gorgeous Da= wn. Thanks so much for all the work..
-------------------------------1241150410-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2629 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91271 invoked from network); 1 May 2009 07:55:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2009 07:55:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2009 07:55:14 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2009 07:54:55 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2009 07:54:55 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 07:54:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "lady_roisin12" Subject: Re: May 2009 Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=oElksaG0H9iTVzMQNn81rcM8ZPqGT6vsxGqd19O31Mofp-qMFtUfyMZ2dOUf4DM X-Yahoo-Profile: lady_roisin12 This looks great! I can't wait to read it! Roisin --- In SilmarillionWrit= ersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Felagund" wrote: > > ...= and I forgot to mention (sorry, it is getting late and is way past my bedt= ime!) ... > > Darth Fingon is asking for your burning language-related ques= tions for future installments of Linguistic Foolery. Send your questions to= us at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and we'll see that t= hey get passed on to him. > > And I think that should do it. :) Namarie, > = > Dawn > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2630 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60238 invoked from network); 5 May 2009 15:05:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2009 15:05:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f123.google.com) (209.85.221.123) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2009 15:05:19 -0000 X-Received: by qyk29 with SMTP id 29so11165597qyk.17 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 08:04:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.84.82 with SMTP id i18mr113176qcl.90.1241535859487; Tue, 05 May 2009 08:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 11:04:19 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646d53ee1805204692b974f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Mod Post: SWG Site Downtime Expected May 6-7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Vhcr5ZRK288TksRVnI0VczvOWL8p42ijV8BhrcJa5pHH60x2dtDh X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163646d53ee1805204692b974f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, I've just received notification from our webhost that they will be performing hardware maintanence on our server on May 6 at 11PM MST (May 7 at 6AM GMT). The estimated downtime is 1-2 hours. So if the site is down during those times Wednesday/Thursday, don't be alarmed; it is expected. As always, if the site is down or not performing as expected at other times, please email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and we'll try to get the problem resolved. Best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163646d53ee1805204692b974f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,
=C2=A0
I've just received notificat= ion from our webhost that they will be performing hardware maintanence on o= ur server on May 6 at 11PM MST (May 7 at 6AM GMT). The estimated downtime i= s 1-2 hours.
=C2=A0
So if the site is down during tho= se times Wednesday/Thursday, don't be alarmed; it is expected. As alway= s, if the site is down or not performing as expected at other times, please= email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and we'll t= ry to get the problem resolved.
=C2=A0
Best regards = to all,
=C2=A0
Dawn

--00163646d53ee1805204692b974f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2631 Return-Path: X-Sender: nav_joyi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97056 invoked from network); 5 May 2009 15:12:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2009 15:12:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n58.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (98.136.44.46) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2009 15:12:11 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.84.145] by n58.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 May 2009 15:11:32 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.84.95] by t8.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 May 2009 15:11:32 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp205.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 May 2009 15:11:32 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 770800.42847.bm@omp205.mail.sp1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 58395 invoked by uid 60001); 5 May 2009 15:11:31 -0000 Message-ID: <323297.7853.qm@web44911.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ythinVEVM1ktZThomjHXTB53wyd2oe3NSG_i2UH1bYwPZ67hfOJrsjjxtXxHlkffuiNh_QJMq9Bm3O7EZx448EPwMNsum_pQMU8yEtH9Thxbvl0NXEaOhcJnMDVEp_iM4TC8hPhWftUjRwqgjnGqGHGXfFk9dvlRrLxpKFOELJgR9SkdzGKI7sZL4HXQKZ5E0fC9K.oN5qrPt0jEvNKYvccug_pwB4Mv_X0b_DkG_K2p0zYgdUT4Pzud8F91qcUjT7jNiUxevABoH300eOadYgXCeG.OA2dMxV_vSUAlwUTxojMG4kifwWmpW8v6ZxfOPcZsuqJciN7tkyQgoIPa1pT1drUH_g_ZLXakE7HAERYOIcySXHk.Uip7Ijh.upe_MMSouw9asucbyark1sifGUkjvc.5ufO3Y42VJygcLmNYBX_L.y75Svp7KKKz0WlhnMXE1jxruqTbDqXeH5KxGjR1DhLNKn4v9fNBGfYPx26z813Hw4klXWk8FqXxI9KomeShu4A05cEyQoIiCjF3iL7KTR1eaX_C2ZXhEWq2XzDax5Ai0.prXejUTg9nTu.jUV2lQO_VayewEcK7rFZ5H79ZUsw2snGDI51P X-Received: from [59.93.14.184] by web44911.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 May 2009 08:11:31 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 References: Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 08:11:31 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1063010605-1241536291=:7853" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: nav Joy Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: SWG Site Downtime Expected May 6-7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=VQiBy9wf63m2xwB0MfbkW-JATAlU6Pz60ARKA_qx1VZvs0s X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi --0-1063010605-1241536291=:7853 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, thanks for the info, Dawn! ________________________________ From: Da= wn Felagund To: SWG Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 8:34:19 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWr= itersGuild] Mod Post: SWG Site Downtime Expected May 6-7 Hi, all, I'= ve just received notification from our webhost that they will be performing= hardware maintanence on our server on May 6 at 11PM MST (May 7 at 6AM GMT)= . The estimated downtime is 1-2 hours. So if the site is down during thos= e times Wednesday/Thursday, don't be alarmed; it is expected. As always, if= the site is down or not performing as expected at other times, please emai= l us at moderator AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org, and we'll try to ge= t the problem resolved. Best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Fel= agund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild..org --0-1063010605-1241536291=:7853 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh, thanks for the info, Dawn!

<= font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma">
From: Dawn Felagund
= To: SWG
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 8:34:19 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: SWG Site Dow= ntime Expected May 6-7

Hi, all,
=A0
I've just r= eceived notification from our webhost that they will be performing hardware= maintanence on our server on May 6 at 11PM MST (May 7 at 6AM GMT). The est= imated downtime is 1-2 hours.
=A0
So if the site is d= own during those times Wednesday/Thursday, don't be alarmed; it is expected= . As always, if the site is down or not performing as expected at other tim= es, please email us at moderator AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org, and = we'll try to get the problem resolved.
=A0
Best rega= rds to all,
=A0
Dawn


--0-1063010605-1241536291=:7853-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2632 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65363 invoked from network); 5 May 2009 19:22:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2009 19:22:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2009 19:22:03 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.28] (helo=mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1M1QDL-0003po-Rf for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 05 May 2009 15:22:03 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Tue, 5 May 2009 15:22:03 -0400 Message-ID: <26755911.1241551323536.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 15:22:03 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79a5dc3e6c3aa113bbe966dd3bc319461e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: SWG Site Downtime Expected May 6-7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=pVf33OdHiU18P7PiliU77VnDtepK7K82u3go52UKMsTvpTCGDi8p X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Thanks for the heads-up!  Naturally they would decide to do this just when I've finally gotten off my butt and signed up for an account at the archive!  So much for posting  any stories tomorrow night.  :)

Ithilwen


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
Sent: May 5, 2009 11:04 AM
To: SWG
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: SWG Site Downtime Expected May 6-7



Hi, all,
 
I've just received notification from our webhost that they will be performing hardware maintanence on our server on May 6 at 11PM MST (May 7 at 6AM GMT). The estimated downtime is 1-2 hours.
 
So if the site is down during those times Wednesday/Thursday, don't be alarmed; it is expected. As always, if the site is down or not performing as expected at other times, please email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and we'll try to get the problem resolved.
 
Best regards to all,
 
Dawn

From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2633 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62159 invoked from network); 5 May 2009 19:56:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2009 19:56:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f112.google.com) (209.85.221.112) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2009 19:56:11 -0000 X-Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so2435044qyk.25 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 12:56:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.94.148 with SMTP id z20mr177038qcm.106.1241553360888; Tue, 05 May 2009 12:56:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <26755911.1241551323536.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <26755911.1241551323536.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 15:56:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636426b390ba8f504692fabe7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: SWG Site Downtime Expected May 6-7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=pr8qRKoApdGpArYjD0ib7SnWpsdGDrvHys7ssB0_Jmu9b8HaQrka X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636426b390ba8f504692fabe7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh noes! What a bummer of a coincidence! :) Now I have a mental image of the techs at Bluehost sitting around and laughing with maniacal glee: "The keyword of 'Ithilwen' has been added to the site! Now is the time to bring it down for maintanence!!" Hopefully, they'll be quick about it, and none of us will even notice that it's down! Dawn On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Diana Nevins wrote > Thanks for the heads-up! Naturally they would decide to do this just when I've finally gotten off my butt and signed up for an account at the archive! So much for posting any stories tomorrow night. :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636426b390ba8f504692fabe7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh noes! What a bummer of a coincidence! :)
=C2=A0
Now I have a mental image of the techs at Bluehost sitting around and la= ughing with maniacal glee: "The keyword of 'Ithilwen' has been= added to the site! Now is the time to bring it down for maintanence!!"= ;
=C2=A0
Hopefully, they'll be quick about it, a= nd none of us will even notice that it's down!
=C2=A0
=
Dawn

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 3= :22 PM, Diana Nevins <dlnevins@earthlink.net> wrote
> Thanks for the heads-up!=C2=A0 Naturally they would decide= to do this just when I've finally gotten off my butt and signed up for= an account at the archive!=C2=A0 So much for posting=C2=A0 any stories tom= orrow night.=C2=A0 :)
=C2=A0
--001636426b390ba8f504692fabe7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2634 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47981 invoked from network); 5 May 2009 20:06:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2009 20:06:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-m06.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.200) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2009 20:06:52 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-m06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a009c3a15a; Tue, 05 May 2009 16:06:18 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.bbb.4c9f7254 (41812) for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 16:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 16:06:06 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1241553966" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.138 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: SWG Site Downtime Expected May 6-7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=_5xEUrx_TKoynj2TPZqVD4lZ7JOmxIPgAPM1RHfOKcc3MjWRYChL X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1241553966 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've noticed with these kinds of notices to other sites, that they actually try to overestimate they time they believe it will be offline to avoid getting lots of queries as to how much longer it is going to be. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =May5509AvgfooterNO115) -------------------------------1241553966 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I've noticed with= these kinds of notices to other sites, that they actually try to overe= stimate they time they believe it will be offline to avoid getting lot= s of queries as to how much longer it is going to be.

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
-------------------------------1241553966-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2635 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93378 invoked from network); 5 May 2009 21:44:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2009 21:44:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.198.243) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2009 21:44:34 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id f25so3813024rvb.34 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 14:43:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.127.1 with SMTP id z1mr368098wac.3.1241559813439; Tue, 05 May 2009 14:43:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 17:43:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636458110a5bfe00469312b5c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: SWG Site Downtime Expected May 6-7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=gRr8F3dvwIvBiXIx9BEG20RpsxkJ7wOyrJIRlTY-CthXrf7o9Ozg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636458110a5bfe00469312b5c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, actually, this one did too! :D The notice I got from Bluehost said something along the lines of the work quite possibly being finished long before the 1-2 hour window they'd allotted themselves. Let's hope that comes to pass and that no one is inconvenienced! (It's scheduled for 1 AM on a work night for me, so I guarantee that *I* won't be around!) Dawn On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 4:06 PM, wrote: > > > I've noticed with these kinds of notices to other sites, that they > actually try to *overestimate* they time they believe it will be offline > to avoid getting lots of queries as to how much longer it is going to be. > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636458110a5bfe00469312b5c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, actually, this one did too! :D The notice I got from Bluehost said som= ething along the lines of the work quite possibly being finished long befor= e the 1-2 hour window they'd allotted themselves. Let's hope that c= omes to pass and that no one is inconvenienced! (It's scheduled for 1 A= M on a work night for me, so I guarantee that I won't be around!= )

Dawn

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 4:0= 6 PM, <hearto= foshun@aol.com> wrote:
=

I've noticed with these kinds of notices to othe= r sites, that they actually try to overestimate they time they beli= eve it will be offline to avoid getting lots of queries as to how much lon= ger it is going to be.








--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/h= eretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636458110a5bfe00469312b5c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2636 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 874 invoked from network); 5 May 2009 21:48:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2009 21:48:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2009 21:48:54 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a00b4231a1; Tue, 05 May 2009 17:48:19 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d19.3ea892d6 (41812) for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 17:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 17:48:03 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1241560083" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: SWG Site Downtime Expected May 6-7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=NCGWgMaSvPlYa9zsau2vmQo5tfwcQLIYJAGBiFXnFnvIin2NaigI X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1241560083 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit : (It's scheduled for 1 AM on a work night for me, so I guarantee that I won't be around!) That's around my regular posting time (given that I have my days and nights confused)! But fortunately, or unfortunately, I won't be finishing anything that will be ready to be posted then. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =May5509AvgfooterNO115) -------------------------------1241560083 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
:
(It's scheduled for 1 AM on a work night for me,= so I guarantee that I won't be around!)
<= /DIV>
That's around my regular posting time (given that I = have my days and nights confused)! But fortunately, or unfortunately, I wo= n't be finishing anything that will be ready to be posted then.

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! -------------------------------1241560083-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2637 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 64810 invoked from network); 6 May 2009 09:22:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2009 09:22:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2009 09:22:19 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1241601722; bh=/ysZZfFoFBifOGwh15nzlKP6HI+zvS8H//6a7S8+d2w=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Received:Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:X-Received:X-Mailer:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=rKlK+UBua6fvBlNJQGpXzlOLmkM8co/tQleGL0OYUf3aPem66DAU7Mv9mVzr3VlvbADtrigCm6YdF8QuS2X10DMME0pUuf+pcmLITAj40IEg+QKNjXwsp7Qp+DFf/TMg Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 09:22:02 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 09:22:02 -0000 X-Sender: silmdevils@yahoo.in X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54304 invoked from network); 6 May 2009 09:14:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2009 09:14:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n7-vm0.bullet.mail.in.yahoo.com) (202.86.4.134) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2009 09:14:31 -0000 X-Received: from [202.86.4.171] by n7.bullet.mail.in.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 09:13:42 -0000 X-Received: from [203.104.18.52] by t2.bullet.in.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 09:13:42 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp113.mail.in2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 09:13:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 545591.29126.bm@omp113.mail.in2.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 89831 invoked by uid 60001); 6 May 2009 09:13:30 -0000 Message-ID: <465780.88722.qm@web95013.mail.in2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: _ClIiiEVM1lJ8u0fGJFa.OSEjDKOmkTvObkvIwmyxZ5lBwGnlFzpJfJPihgOExHAqM1c84nDeDssvWxheKKlsbx.26iJA34dKj69QuokTYdLEe6pQPe1yfVmEsL7dfRc0b03d8xKgtuOYY1ZCaX7sq2uCf4BvM8TVlMQ.vhePI5EFZT38.2KXROnyJ.2JWVJlL53mN9lJmXWWv4I_zZt X-Received: from [59.93.27.33] by web95013.mail.in2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 May 2009 14:43:30 IST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 14:43:30 +0530 (IST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1989043704-1241601210=:88722" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silmdevil Fanficcer Subject: fic search X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=398314253; y=JKx401EWIByGSKv2kpBWH00-SRjr0euPmvC6z0KcJgzm_KVV X-Yahoo-Profile: silmdevil X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 06 May 2009 09:22:01 -0000 --0-1989043704-1241601210=:88722 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been hunting for recs. can anyone help me with these stories? I don'= t have the titles. 1. an Gil/Findel tale..Elros sails etc, etc. from Elron= d's narration.Completed one. I think it was by Keiliss. There was Erestor, = a guest appearance by the Wandering company. 2. A strange compelling plot, = I think it is new. I don't know who the author is. I guess it can be Jdav o= r one of the dark-ficcers. This has the whole family of Noldor in it. Fingo= lfin's narration. Lots of pairings and subplots. I am dying to complete rea= ding this. Anyone know where it is? 3. A Maedhros-Thranduil story by Orchar= d Constantyne. Not completed. Help would make this devil happy.. N= ow surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition h= ttp://downloads.yahoo.com/in/firefox/?fr=3Dom_email_firefox --0-1989043704-1241601210=:88722 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have been hunting for recs. can anyone help me w= ith these stories? I don't have the titles.

1. an = Gil/Findel tale..Elros sails etc, etc. from Elrond's narration.Completed on= e. I think it was by Keiliss. There was Erestor, a guest appearance by the = Wandering company.
2. A strange compelling plot, I think it is ne= w. I don't know who the author is. I guess it can be Jdav or one of the dar= k-ficcers. This has the whole family of Noldor in it. Fingolfin's narration= .. Lots of pairings and subplots. I am dying to complete reading this. Anyo= ne know where it is?
3. A Maedhros-Thranduil story by Orchard Con= stantyne. Not completed.

Help would make this devi= l happy.

=
Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all unde= r one roof. Click here. --0-1989043704-1241601210=:88722-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2638 Return-Path: X-Sender: tuxedo.elf@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45330 invoked from network); 6 May 2009 09:45:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2009 09:45:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.188) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2009 09:45:02 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 09:44:59 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.13] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 09:44:59 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 09:44:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <465780.88722.qm@web95013.mail.in2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "tuxedo_elf" Subject: Re: fic search X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219404730; y=LajJIiEgCg2UiFOYE6MevvjTdNOaXe3GPvCXc1EZ6usLLsD9VhECLQ X-Yahoo-Profile: tuxedo_elf I can help you with the first one. Even Quicker than Doubt, by Keiliss: h= ttp://keiliss.fluffydragon.co.uk/fics/doubt1.html Tux --- In Silmarillio= nWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Silmdevil Fanficcer wrote: = > > I have been hunting for recs. can anyone help me with these stories? I = don't have the titles. > > 1. an Gil/Findel tale..Elros sails etc, etc. fr= om Elrond's narration.Completed one. I think it was by Keiliss. There was E= restor, a guest appearance by the Wandering company. > 2. A strange compell= ing plot, I think it is new. I don't know who the author is. I guess it can= be Jdav or one of the dark-ficcers. This has the whole family of Noldor in= it. Fingolfin's narration. Lots of pairings and subplots. I am dying to co= mplete reading this. Anyone know where it is? > 3. A Maedhros-Thranduil sto= ry by Orchard Constantyne. Not completed. > > Help would make this devil h= appy.. > > > Now surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new Firefo= x 3 - Yahoo! Edition http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/firefox/?fr=3Dom_email_f= irefox > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2639 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13603 invoked from network); 6 May 2009 14:15:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2009 14:15:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f120.google.com) (209.85.221.120) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2009 14:15:08 -0000 X-Received: by qyk26 with SMTP id 26so230106qyk.1 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 07:15:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.85.143 with SMTP id o15mr924789qcl.1.1241619306931; Wed, 06 May 2009 07:15:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <465780.88722.qm@web95013.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <465780.88722.qm@web95013.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:15:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ef3d2bc693004693f05cd X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic search X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YrCsW4PK46ryLr51SNAwoYDkO97WZBTC5pT6r6wspi67VrQ6et9x X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364ef3d2bc693004693f05cd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Silmdevil, Jdav is on this list, so hopefully she'll be able to help you further. Until then, she has a lot of stories uploaded to the SWG archive here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewuser.php?uid=152 Hope that helps! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364ef3d2bc693004693f05cd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Silmdevil,
=C2=A0
Jdav is on this list, so h= opefully she'll be able to help you further. Until then, she has a lot = of stories uploaded to the SWG archive here:
=C2=A0
<= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewuser.php= ?uid=3D152">http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewuser.p= hp?uid=3D152
=C2=A0
Hope that helps! :)
=C2=A0
Dawn


--
~oOo~
Dawn = Felagund
http://= themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364ef3d2bc693004693f05cd-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2640 Return-Path: X-Sender: silmdevils@yahoo.in X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29431 invoked from network); 6 May 2009 15:29:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2009 15:29:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14-vm0.bullet.mail.in.yahoo.com) (202.86.5.219) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2009 15:29:02 -0000 X-Received: from [202.43.219.99] by n14.bullet.mail.in.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 15:28:54 -0000 X-Received: from [203.104.18.52] by t3.bullet.in.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 15:28:54 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp113.mail.in2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 15:28:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 894723.80868.bm@omp113.mail.in2.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 511 invoked by uid 60001); 6 May 2009 15:28:54 -0000 Message-ID: <759408.332.qm@web95004.mail.in2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Cw2J.UAVM1mNp8pks_n00SUfYKtxwuR6WE8CQjg8zm9dMVAlbS22L1Lleg.S8kWf8etZSwK2Lw9T1a5NBj1BoONhxt1t_arJxE57hGjLjB.xxZVWl1vuqZ5W.7u3I.DRbXwoHTbkPrBuikhoUTZWqF4p9jSp0b67mhAEZg40eKT_IpbOhG2tYRkeSbt7N8Dn3PvNOEq79l2M9mHLndJqkZkTOg-- X-Received: from [59.93.35.50] by web95004.mail.in2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 May 2009 20:58:54 IST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 References: Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 20:58:54 +0530 (IST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1028039630-1241623734=:332" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silmdevil Fanficcer Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: fic search X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=398314253; y=uaLIXbJ8sluRGJRTv86Wv1f3Z96PJlXC2iDJNUeXJ0ZPhFia X-Yahoo-Profile: silmdevil --0-1028039630-1241623734=:332 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Tuxedo_elf, it is that one. I knew it was by Keiliss, but I didn'= t know the name. Lovely one. ________________________________ From: tuxe= do_elf To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com = Sent: Wednesday, 6 May, 2009 3:14:57 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild]= Re: fic search I can help you with the first one. Even Quicker than= Doubt, by Keiliss: http://keiliss. fluffydragon. co.uk/fics/ doubt1.html = Tux --- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, Silmdevil Fanficcer= wrote: > > I have been hunting for recs. can anyone help= me with these stories? I don't have the titles. > > 1. an Gil/Findel tale= ..Elros sails etc, etc. from Elrond's narration.Completed one. I think it w= as by Keiliss. There was Erestor, a guest appearance by the Wandering compa= ny. > 2. A strange compelling plot, I think it is new. I don't know who the= author is. I guess it can be Jdav or one of the dark-ficcers. This has the= whole family of Noldor in it. Fingolfin's narration. Lots of pairings and = subplots. I am dying to complete reading this. Anyone know where it is? > 3= . A Maedhros-Thranduil story by Orchard Constantyne. Not completed. > > He= lp would make this devil happy.. > > > Now surf faster and smarter = ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition http://downloads. yahoo.com/= in/firefox/ ?fr=3Dom_email_ firefox > Now surf faster and smart= er ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition http://downloads.yahoo.co= m/in/firefox/?fr=3Dom_email_firefox --0-1028039630-1241623734=:332 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you Tuxedo_elf, it is that one. I knew it wa= s by Keiliss, but I didn't know the name. Lovely one.

From: tuxedo_elf
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogr= oups.com
Sent: Wednesda= y, 6 May, 2009 3:14:57 PM
Subject:= [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: fic search

=


I can help you with = the first one.

Even Quicker than Doubt, by Keiliss:
http://keiliss. fluffydragon. co.uk/fics/ doubt1.html
=
Tux

--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.co= m, Silmdevil Fanficcer wrote:
>
> I have b= een hunting for recs. can anyone help me with these stories? I don't have t= he titles.
>
> 1. an Gil/Findel tale..Elros sails etc, etc. from E= lrond's narration.Completed one. I think it was by Keiliss. There was Erest= or, a guest appearance by the Wandering company.
> 2. A strange compell= ing plot, I think it is new. I don't know who the author is. I guess it can= be Jdav or one of the dark-ficcers. This has the whole family of Noldor in= it. Fingolfin's narration. Lots of pairings and subplots. I am dying to co= mplete reading this. Anyone know where it is?
> 3. A Maedhros-Thranduil= story by Orchard Constantyne. Not completed.
>
> Help would make = this devil happy..
>
>
> Now surf faster and smarter ! = Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition http://downloads. yahoo.com/ in/firefox/ ?fr=3Dom_email_ firefox
= >


Now surf faste= r and smarter ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition * Click here! --0-1028039630-1241623734=:332-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2641 Return-Path: X-Sender: silmdevils@yahoo.in X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82532 invoked from network); 6 May 2009 15:38:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2009 15:38:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n11-vm0.bullet.mail.in.yahoo.com) (202.86.4.227) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2009 15:38:40 -0000 X-Received: from [202.86.4.170] by n11.bullet.mail.in.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 15:34:37 -0000 X-Received: from [203.104.17.88] by t1.bullet.in.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 15:34:36 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp102.mail.in2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 15:34:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 927373.78442.bm@omp102.mail.in2.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 71088 invoked by uid 60001); 6 May 2009 15:34:36 -0000 Message-ID: <712589.65787.qm@web95011.mail.in2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: XMUC5ZMVM1ky6RVMT1haqjLW2ieqDU6Pp8rnxxnUnbwvBnf71Z475MRLv3_1UyehlIFIqgm6VugIfIvQ2871aPsUM2LhH3PLzCZINuDmnb7L5zbIV07YhJZnH56rMRugQ5WLj.0RkY8Llh2oNGy1t8SgZQwnJj72BuvEUChBAA9V18yukUqU_7vR8SwVqyFeAbb5VZefH0cYz3byj5Ax9uEREA-- X-Received: from [59.93.35.50] by web95011.mail.in2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 May 2009 21:04:36 IST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 References: <465780.88722.qm@web95013.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 21:04:36 +0530 (IST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1378965631-1241624076=:65787" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silmdevil Fanficcer Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic search X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=398314253; y=Zv670TnrE0sKtcygCjicSEw636sI5cnpiMvhhoNFGAtMwYMR X-Yahoo-Profile: silmdevil --0-1378965631-1241624076=:65787 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanksie, Dawn, I have been searching in that index you linked me to. But y= ou have a point. She has a lot of stories uploaded there, and searching wit= hout reading is hard. I ended up reading many because of their excellent pl= ots . But I didn't find the one I was looking for yet. I will keep searchin= g there. The thing is I don't know if she was the author. I think it was JD= E. Is JDE and Jdav the same? The writing style is more or less the same. I= didnt think the search would get me such a quickie help. Thanks again. = Silmdevil ________________________________ From: Dawn Felagund To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesda= y, 6 May, 2009 7:45:06 PM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic searc= h Hi, Silmdevil, Jdav is on this list, so hopefully she'll be able t= o help you further. Until then, she has a lot of stories uploaded to the SW= G archive here: http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/v= iewuser. php?uid=3D152 Hope that helps! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagu= nd http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/ http://www.silmaril lionwr= itersguild .org Now surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new F= irefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/firefox/?fr=3Dom_em= ail_firefox --0-1378965631-1241624076=:65787 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanksie, Dawn, I have been searching in that inde= x you linked me to. But you have a point. She has a lot of stories uploaded= there, and searching without reading is hard. I ended up reading many beca= use of their excellent plots . But I didn't find the one I was looking for = yet. I will keep searching there. The thing is I don't know if she was the = author. I think it was JDE. Is JDE and Jdav the same? The writing style is = more or less the same.

I didnt think the search wo= uld get me such a quickie help.=A0

Thanks again.

Silmdevil

From: Dawn Felagund
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
<= b>Sent: Wednesday, 6 May, 200= 9 7:45:06 PM
Subject: R= e: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic search

Hi, Silmdevil,
=A0=
Jdav is on this list, so hopefully she'll be able to help you f= urther. Until then, she has a lot of stories uploaded to the SWG archive he= re:
=A0
=A0
Hope that helps! :)
=

=
Now surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new = Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition * Click= here! --0-1378965631-1241624076=:65787-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2642 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99708 invoked from network); 6 May 2009 15:46:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2009 15:46:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2009 15:46:50 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN1-24a01b0bd31c; Wed, 06 May 2009 11:46:05 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c28.55f16e13 (41812) for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 11:45:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 11:45:53 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1241624753" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.202 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic search X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=dfEZYlTAMvPER1czLJYEpIVaFMYSHIOSod5eLVzYi730oJwdge-j X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1241624753 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en I think it was JDE. Is JDE and Jdav the same? They are the same and = I believe the story you are looking for is on her LJ. Don't recall the na= me of it either. I do recall commenting on it a some point and if it wasn= 't on the SWG archive I encountered it, then it would have been on her LJ= . Oshun **************Big savings on Dell=E2=80=99s most popular laptops.= Now starting at $449! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x122182751= 0x1201399090/aol?redir=3Dhttp:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663377%3B= 36502382%3Bh) -------------------------------1241624753 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
I think it was JDE. Is JDE and Jd= av the same?
They are the same = and I believe the story you are looking for is on her LJ. Don't recall the= name of it either. I do recall commenting on it a some point and if it wa= sn't on the SWG archive I encountered it, then it would have been on her L= J.
 
Oshun

Big savin= gs on Dell's most popular laptops. Now starting at $449! -------------------------------1241624753-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2643 Return-Path: X-Sender: silmdevils@yahoo.in X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52177 invoked from network); 6 May 2009 15:57:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2009 15:57:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.in.yahoo.com) (202.43.219.18) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2009 15:57:34 -0000 X-Received: from [202.43.219.99] by n1.bullet.in.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 15:56:12 -0000 X-Received: from [203.104.17.87] by t3.bullet.in.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 15:56:12 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp101.mail.in2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 15:56:12 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 688485.58707.bm@omp101.mail.in2.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 82277 invoked by uid 60001); 6 May 2009 15:56:12 -0000 Message-ID: <470446.80996.qm@web95016.mail.in2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: HcQL9u4VM1ms4xAbIsRXqdiB6aozihk9a6OfDj7aeS2Qt.m3oyHUrG_.NEn03XIWNX5ZhP1a6PYcudcCdJdXbSF2QNTjV6ffK5ZsdyLQna9QS3CAbU2mkEc38JeAvtOkYoYU2Q7XQPDZRJC0iOEWIip6lcShyrq2894TVi3.NybH7qZ44sWUIvkgZXhI86E8PsUKoDn7xQ-- X-Received: from [59.93.35.50] by web95016.mail.in2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 May 2009 21:26:12 IST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 References: Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 21:26:12 +0530 (IST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-621462926-1241625372=:80996" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silmdevil Fanficcer Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic search X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=398314253; y=qpsNLrKlabPnIUJoZ53KVM2kP4z_poNpxz-CeQwJaS0K1vyd X-Yahoo-Profile: silmdevil --0-621462926-1241625372=:80996 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Oshun, I think it is the one called the Journal. I must read it sinc= e I left it off on one of the groups where she posted only the first few ch= apters. I think it was not completed. There was a lack of enough response t= here since people don't read Silm as much as they read LOTR/Hobbit. She mig= ht have discontinued it after the poor response. It was a well-written one.= I will read through all the stories on the archive Dawn linked me with and= then I will reply if I find it. Thanks, Silmdevil. ___________________= _____________ From: "heartofoshun@aol.com" To: Silma= rillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 6 May, 2009 9:15:53 PM= Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic search I think it was J= DE. Is JDE and Jdav the same? They are the same and I believe the story yo= u are looking for is on her LJ. Don't recall the name of it either. I do r= ecall commenting on it a some point and if it wasn't on the SWG archive I = encountered it, then it would have been on her LJ. Oshun _____________= ___________________ Big savings on Dell's most popular laptops. Now startin= g at $449! Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your favo= urite Yahoo! group at http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/ --0-621462926-1241625372=:80996 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Oshun, I think it is the one called the Jou= rnal. I must read it since I left it off on one of the groups where she pos= ted only the first few chapters. I think it was not completed. There was a = lack of enough response there since people don't read Silm as much as they = read LOTR/Hobbit. She might have discontinued it after the poor response. I= t was a well-written one. I will read through all the stories on the archiv= e Dawn linked me with and then I will reply if I find it.

Thanks,
Silmdevil.

From: "heartofoshun@aol.com"
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups= .com
Sent: Wednesday, 6= May, 2009 9:15:53 PM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic search

=

=A0
I think i= t was JDE. Is JDE and Jdav the same?
=
They are the same and I believe the story you are looking for is on h= er LJ. Don't recall the name of it either. I do recall commenting on it a = some point and if it wasn't on the SWG archive I encountered it, then it w= ould have been on her LJ.
=A0
Oshun

=

Bollywo= od news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Click here.<= /a> --0-621462926-1241625372=:80996-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2644 Return-Path: X-Sender: nav_joyi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61017 invoked from network); 6 May 2009 16:13:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2009 16:13:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n61.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (98.136.44.37) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2009 16:13:55 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.84.144] by n61.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 16:13:47 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.170] by t6.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 16:13:47 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2009 16:13:47 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 866651.67166.bm@omp505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 1113 invoked by uid 60001); 6 May 2009 16:13:47 -0000 Message-ID: <712467.846.qm@web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: w81SqtAVM1nRigGThLWHSeum4oZFMHUn62FnU6qEs.M5kD3D7EfHIymoClFfYjA6Yk8yoT9TGuuc_VO1jsavb98DlHV9B.5couz3NrKLsRAkyWsSb1LPJSjImYyhfbBe6YKQxhRls6r5JdIT1HjT6Ha3BgfnxtqW6KYh2jyA53TpyDLXz8ieItc80P7U.TgDLAt.M_mTwdjnVo4iMMNI7B2EXmbl0RqenyIW9Fe7kPM_F29B9QI224qz3EoZoamoWRr.dAKkyx_PuX3h_5.Gv7JQqmGElL3wd0FhhIa8h7HMF4fzHfI50ayySfg- X-Received: from [59.93.35.50] by web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 May 2009 09:13:47 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 References: <470446.80996.qm@web95016.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 09:13:47 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <470446.80996.qm@web95016.mail.in2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1149305402-1241626427=:846" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: nav Joy Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic search X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=7bTvkNjFjIPZK9kEybFeJgxRaB11PbdYLXmT1E_cubYzIgI X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi --0-1149305402-1241626427=:846 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Silmdevil, I think I have run into you on a group? I am flattered that = you would be searching for any of my fics. By the description you had, I th= ink you are talking about the Journal. It is there on the SWG site. http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D416 I dis= continued posting it everywhere except on my LJ and on SWG. You are right, = the lack of response was a dampener. While you are there, do peep into th= e many wonderful fics all around. Hope you enjoy. jdav. well, nav_joyi is= jdav who is JDE. Blame me. ________________________________ From: Silm= devil Fanficcer To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogro= ups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:12 PM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionW= ritersGuild] fic search Thanks Oshun, I think it is the one called the= Journal. I must read it since I left it off on one of the groups where she= posted only the first few chapters. I think it was not completed. There wa= s a lack of enough response there since people don't read Silm as much as t= hey read LOTR/Hobbit. She might have discontinued it after the poor respons= e. It was a well-written one. I will read through all the stories on the ar= chive Dawn linked me with and then I will reply if I find it. Thanks, Silm= devil. ________________________________ From: "heartofoshun@ aol.com" To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com Sent: = Wednesday, 6 May, 2009 9:15:53 PM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] = fic search I think it was JDE. Is JDE and Jdav the same? They are the = same and I believe the story you are looking for is on her LJ. Don't recal= l the name of it either. I do recall commenting on it a some point and if = it wasn't on the SWG archive I encountered it, then it would have been on = her LJ. Oshun ________________________________ Big savings on Dell's mo= st popular laptops. Now starting at $449! ________________________________ = Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Click here. = --0-1149305402-1241626427=:846 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Silmdevil,

I discontinued posting it everywhere except = on my LJ and on SWG. You are right, the lack of response was a dampener.


While you are there, do peep into the= many wonderful fics all around.=A0
Hope you enjoy.
jdav.
well, nav_joyi is jdav who is JDE. Blame me.


From: Silmdevil Fan= ficcer
To= : SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 9:26:12 PM
<= b>Subject: Re: [SilmarillionW= ritersGuild] fic search

Thanks Oshun, I think it is the o= ne called the Journal. I must read it since I left it off on one of the gro= ups where she posted only the first few chapters. I think it was not comple= ted. There was a lack of enough response there since people don't read Silm= as much as they read LOTR/Hobbit. She might have discontinued it after the= poor response. It was a well-written one. I will read through all the stor= ies on the archive Dawn linked me with and then I will reply if I find it.<= /div>

Thanks,
Silmdevil.

From: "heartofoshun@= aol.com"
To: Silmaril= lionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.c= om
Sent: Wednesday, = 6 May, 2009 9:15:53 PM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] fic search

=

=A0
I think = it was JDE. Is JDE and Jdav the same?
They are the same and I believe the story you are looking for is on = her LJ. Don't recall the name of it either. I do recall commenting on it a= some point and if it wasn't on the SWG archive I encountered it, then it = would have been on her LJ.
=A0
Oshun
 =

Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Click here.
=

--0-1149305402-1241626427=:846-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2645 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74738 invoked from network); 7 May 2009 05:56:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 May 2009 05:56:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2009 05:56:30 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 May 2009 05:55:50 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 May 2009 05:55:50 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 05:55:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "lady_roisin12" Subject: Re: Mod Post: SWG Site Downtime Expected May 6-7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=8EavJIYTB-xDggX0kCYzMiw3SCQn80McWmPKfDeuPsukf6fOSMMfSdO2r-Hnjxs X-Yahoo-Profile: lady_roisin12 Weee! Haven't been around much on the mailing lists, but I appreciate the = warning very much. I was going to post an update later tonight, but will wa= it until maintenance is done. Thanks again! Lady R. --- In SilmarillionWr= itersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi,= all, > > I've just received notification from our webhost that they will b= e > performing hardware maintanence on our server on May 6 at 11PM MST (May= 7 at > 6AM GMT). The estimated downtime is 1-2 hours. > > So if the site i= s down during those times Wednesday/Thursday, don't be > alarmed; it is exp= ected. As always, if the site is down or not performing as > expected at ot= her times, please email us at moderator AT > silmarillionwritersguild DOT o= rg, and we'll try to get the problem resolved. > > Best regards to all, > >= Dawn > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lo= remaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2646 Return-Path: X-Sender: silmdevils@yahoo.in X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95568 invoked from network); 7 May 2009 08:33:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 May 2009 08:33:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13-vm0.bullet.mail.in.yahoo.com) (202.86.5.183) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2009 08:33:00 -0000 X-Received: from [202.43.219.99] by n13.bullet.mail.in.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 May 2009 08:31:40 -0000 X-Received: from [203.104.18.55] by t3.bullet.in.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 May 2009 08:31:40 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp107.mail.in2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 May 2009 08:31:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 649992.25654.bm@omp107.mail.in2.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 38332 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 2009 08:31:40 -0000 Message-ID: <182065.87434.qm@web95005.mail.in2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: u2YJqJ0VM1nL7KCo0WKU7gXbKAKUVo9BJaJsWZWTOA9O73gVxgHQgiBZ7pYLKqWOBPfpOGqiWfj8cPpruMHUWiG91Pl5cyp8uTmE4I63.2bsSUBgPh_FCq7314xkXjAh9llQel9njXQuzR57FHIlH3RRLMDsDt1uT2N_MqlRaYa9Rhz82Esh_mTIhg63xH5GeLI28MgXLg-- X-Received: from [59.93.3.67] by web95005.mail.in2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 May 2009 14:01:39 IST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 References: <470446.80996.qm@web95016.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <712467.846.qm@web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:01:39 +0530 (IST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <712467.846.qm@web44907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-521381479-1241685099=:87434" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silmdevil Fanficcer Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic search X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=398314253; y=ch8I2WYEOhEa4vUotCRH5Oi2AzsM-C4BegP4XN1kr-41FBOa X-Yahoo-Profile: silmdevil --0-521381479-1241685099=:87434 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I didn't know about the site actually. That is why I was searching here. Th= anks, jdav. Your names had me confused. It was the Journal, lovely work a= ctually. I am looking forward to reading it. Silmdevil. _______________= _________________ From: nav Joy To: SilmarillionWriter= sGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 6 May, 2009 9:43:47 PM Subject: Re:= [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic search Hi Silmdevil, I think I have r= un into you on a group? I am flattered that you would be searching for any = of my fics. By the description you had, I think you are talking about the J= ournal. It is there on the SWG site. http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .= org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?sid=3D416 I discontinued posting it everyw= here except on my LJ and on SWG. You are right, the lack of response was a = dampener. While you are there, do peep into the many wonderful fics all a= round. Hope you enjoy. jdav. well, nav_joyi is jdav who is JDE. Blame me.= ________________________________ From: Silmdevil Fanficcer To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com Sent: Wednesday,= May 6, 2009 9:26:12 PM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] fic search= Thanks Oshun, I think it is the one called the Journal. I must read it s= ince I left it off on one of the groups where she posted only the first few= chapters. I think it was not completed. There was a lack of enough respons= e there since people don't read Silm as much as they read LOTR/Hobbit. She = might have discontinued it after the poor response. It was a well-written o= ne. I will read through all the stories on the archive Dawn linked me with = and then I will reply if I find it. Thanks, Silmdevil. ________________= ________________ From: "heartofoshun@ aol.com" To: = SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com Sent: Wednesday, 6 May, 2009 9:1= 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] fic search I think it = was JDE. Is JDE and Jdav the same? They are the same and I believe the sto= ry you are looking for is on her LJ. Don't recall the name of it either. I= do recall commenting on it a some point and if it wasn't on the SWG archi= ve I encountered it, then it would have been on her LJ. Oshun ________= ________________________ Big savings on Dell's most popular laptops. Now st= arting at $449! ________________________________ Bollywood news, movie rev= iews, film trailers and more! Click here. Now surf faster and sm= arter ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition http://downloads.yahoo= .com/in/firefox/?fr=3Dom_email_firefox --0-521381479-1241685099=:87434 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I didn't know about the site actually. That is why= I was searching here. Thanks, jdav. Your names had me confused.=A0

It was the Journal, lovely work actually. I am looking fo= rward to reading it.

Silmdevil.

=
From: nav Joy
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogrou= ps.com
Sent: Wednesday,= 6 May, 2009 9:43:47 PM
Subject:<= /span> Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] fic search

=

Hi Si= lmdevil,

I think I have run into you on a group? I= am flattered that you would be searching for any of my fics. By the descri= ption you had, I think you are talking about the Journal. It is there on th= e SWG site.=A0http:/= /www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/archive/ home/viewstory. php?sid=3D416<= /a>


jdav.

From:<= /span> Silmdevil Fanficcer
To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup = s.com
Sent: Wednesday, M= ay 6, 2009 9:26:12 PM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] fic search

=

Thanks = Oshun, I think it is the one called the Journal. I must read it since I lef= t it off on one of the groups where she posted only the first few chapters.= I think it was not completed. There was a lack of enough response there si= nce people don't read Silm as much as they read LOTR/Hobbit. She might have= discontinued it after the poor response. It was a well-written one. I will= read through all the stories on the archive Dawn linked me with and then I= will reply if I find it.

Thanks,
Silmde= vil.

From:= "heartofoshun@ aol.com"
To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Wednesday, 6 May, 2009 9:1= 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Si= lmarillionWriter sGuild] fic search

=A0
I think it was JDE. Is = JDE and Jdav the same?
They are= the same and I believe the story you are looking for is on her LJ. Don't = recall the name of it either. I do recall commenting on it a some point an= d if it wasn't on the SWG archive I encountered it, then it would have been= on her LJ.
=A0
Oshun

=

Bollyw= ood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Click here.


Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Cl= ick here. --0-521381479-1241685099=:87434-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2647 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53223 invoked from network); 9 May 2009 00:01:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2009 00:01:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n35b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.149) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2009 00:01:22 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n35.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2009 00:00:57 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2009 00:00:57 -0000 Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 00:00:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "ithilwen2001" Subject: SSP: New Maedhros Story X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=Y1UFum8q77FMJ9JFIb7oNV5HeFQj7JCDRUA_F3g2jkIP9Ky_YQVb X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 After a six year absence, the red-headed one has decided to make a sudden r= eappearance in my life. The Wine-Dark Sea is now up at the The Silmarillion Writer's Guild Archive, my fanfiction LJ, and the Pit of = Voles. I hope you enjoy the fic. If you don't like the taste of this part= icular plotbunny stew, blame Maedhros. The story contains graphic violence = and disturbing imagery, so consider yourself warned. ;-) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2648 Return-Path: X-Sender: silmdevils@yahoo.in X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36886 invoked from network); 9 May 2009 17:04:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2009 17:04:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2009 17:04:34 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2009 17:04:17 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2009 17:04:17 -0000 Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 17:04:16 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "silmdevil" Subject: Why is March always the month for B2MeM? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=398314253; y=YDeN5HC-t1n6gPW4sKh7mn3NZgJBqdnhhBaWcVCXg9qEq2tV X-Yahoo-Profile: silmdevil I was roaming on the SWG site and had a doubt, Why is March always the mon= th for B2MeM? Silmdevil. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2649 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36338 invoked from network); 9 May 2009 17:13:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2009 17:13:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2009 17:13:33 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n49HCUD4026442 for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 13:12:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d47.43198f56 (14501) for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 13:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 13:12:23 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1241889143" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Why is March always the month for B2MeM? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=4F5WQSP0tVJsmxiK8npr97svdQLaVGk0cr_J1vX9lAVfaMSe_PNW X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1241889143 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Because that is the month when all of the pivotal events in Lord of the Rings occurred. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823232x1201398636/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= May5909footerNO62) -------------------------------1241889143 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Because that is t= he month when all of the pivotal events in Lord of the Rings occurred.

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!<= /DIV> -------------------------------1241889143-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2650 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14470 invoked from network); 9 May 2009 17:15:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2009 17:15:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f211.google.com) (209.85.217.211) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2009 17:15:55 -0000 X-Received: by gxk7 with SMTP id 7so3021185gxk.19 for ; Sat, 09 May 2009 10:14:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.86.9 with SMTP id j9mr3986572agb.28.1241889286364; Sat, 09 May 2009 10:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?192.168.1.100? (ool-457c028c.dyn.optonline.net [69.124.2.140]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 20sm3472629agd.38.2009.05.09.10.14.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 09 May 2009 10:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A05B9FD.1020408@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 13:14:37 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Why is March always the month for B2MeM? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=whWrx5aRpVPewBGg9zpSpkEv7Kq5Nekkrl8USdF-FuRETawWCBGwoQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Silmdevil, This is just a guess, but I *think* BMEM started on a general Tolkien (as opposed to Silm-specific) group. In Lord of the Rings March is the month where pretty much everything happens. I know one year there was a challenge to write a fic about the "Tale of Years" events for that day of the month. If my headache-addled memory is right, and that's how BMEM started, then it would have continued in the same month every year. So it started in March because in LOTR that's the heart of the timeline; and it continued in March because it's an annual occurrence. Marta silmdevil wrote: > > > > I was roaming on the SWG site and had a doubt, > > Why is March always the month for B2MeM? > > Silmdevil. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2651 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20688 invoked from network); 9 May 2009 18:28:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2009 18:28:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.180) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2009 18:28:15 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so932024waf.4 for ; Sat, 09 May 2009 11:28:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.125.15 with SMTP id x15mr4260758wac.217.1241893685231; Sat, 09 May 2009 11:28:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A05B9FD.1020408@gmail.com> References: <4A05B9FD.1020408@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 14:28:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636457d9ef4ffbf04697ee74d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Why is March always the month for B2MeM? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Op_wMFAKVPTKZBrGOQOhXjM-88mPoIkXmD14be6n_NJROWJ7qQoO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636457d9ef4ffbf04697ee74d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's exactly right, Marta. We didn't invent B2MeM at the SWG; we jumped on the bandwagon in 2006 with a lot of other groups. We remain--to the best of my knowledge--the only fanfic-centric group that continues the "holiday" each year, so that's probably why it has come to be associated with us, though other groups joined us this year, and I hope they will for subequent years as well, and B2MeM will become a *fandom* (versus *Silmdom*) event once more. I don't know the exact origins of B2MeM, but the year that we started participating (2006), it was being promoted to fans and groups as a way to keep a ever-quieter fandom active after the hype had died down from the movies. Of course, the movies aren't as relevant here, since we focus on *The Silmarillion* and not LotR, but people have always responded positively to having an event each year, and it's been a fun way to not only show off the talents of the writers and artists that we have in the SWG but also to connect to the broader Tolkien fandom, so we hope to continue it for some years to come. Silmdevil, we have had events in the past outside of B2MeM that fall outside of March. Seven in '07 was a month dedicated to the Feanorians in July '07, and we had a writing contest in honor of the 30th anniversary of the publication of *The Silmarillion* in September '07 (that we hoped to repeat in '08, but the mods were all too swamped with real-life obligations ... I still have my fingers crossed for a repeat in '09, though! :) When one of us gets a wild idea for an event (and I have a couple in the back of my mind right now ...), we generally aim well away from March! :) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636457d9ef4ffbf04697ee74d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's exactly right, Marta. We didn't invent B2MeM at the SWG; we = jumped on the bandwagon in 2006 with a lot of other groups. We remain--to t= he best of my knowledge--the only fanfic-centric group that continues the &= quot;holiday" each year, so that's probably why it has come to be = associated with us, though other groups joined us this year, and I hope the= y will for subequent years as well, and B2MeM will become a fandom (= versus Silmdom) event once more.

I don't know the exact = origins of B2MeM, but the year that we started participating (2006), it was= being promoted to fans and groups as a way to keep a ever-quieter fandom a= ctive after the hype had died down from the movies. Of course, the movies a= ren't as relevant here, since we focus on The Silmarillion and n= ot LotR, but people have always responded positively to having an event eac= h year, and it's been a fun way to not only show off the talents of the= writers and artists that we have in the SWG but also to connect to the bro= ader Tolkien fandom, so we hope to continue it for some years to come.
=
Silmdevil, we have had events in the past outside of B2MeM that fall ou= tside of March. Seven in '07 was a month dedicated to the Feanorians in= July '07, and we had a writing contest in honor of the 30th anniversar= y of the publication of The Silmarillion in September '07 (that = we hoped to repeat in '08, but the mods were all too swamped with real-= life obligations ... I still have my fingers crossed for a repeat in '0= 9, though! :) When one of us gets a wild idea for an event (and I have a co= uple in the back of my mind right now ...), we generally aim well away from= March! :)

All the best,

Dawn

--
~o= Oo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636457d9ef4ffbf04697ee74d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2652 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29522 invoked from network); 9 May 2009 20:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2009 20:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2009 20:40:33 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1241901589; bh=gHnlIP+yeeFSB2qTIbWTuh9M5d8loPr80VFw1A23Q8w=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=d2oq6/PWBcT+asNgs/OElSLamObkpTwf5esdR01wlC3yvPJeOO04OYIQgnTOULu/Sv1pcNGT8MomDSJorvCVfWJ6b/w8KYy8ufg2BSRKMUW1KpBurCaKLuFXkWGChOor Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2009 20:39:49 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2009 20:39:49 -0000 X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18692 invoked from network); 9 May 2009 20:34:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2009 20:34:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2009 20:34:44 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2009 20:34:37 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2009 20:34:37 -0000 Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 20:34:35 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "silver.trails" Subject: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=eny7tVwpT3vzOEQAf8ouhWM4Is-P3r4owIYokH9Stsrow6tB65GUMQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 09 May 2009 20:39:47 -0000 Hi, Just joined here. I have read every Tolkien material that has come to m= y hands, and the Silmarillion is one of my favorites. I also like the Home = books, because they give us more insight into the characters. I write bot= h Silmarillion fics and LotR fics. Here is the link to my Silm page: http:= //tati24.livejournal.com/56199.html I look forward to meeting you! CC From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2653 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39676 invoked from network); 10 May 2009 13:42:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 May 2009 13:42:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.225) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2009 13:42:49 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f6so2663252rvb.27 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 06:42:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.161.11 with SMTP id j11mr5040500wae.105.1241962967747; Sun, 10 May 2009 06:42:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 09:42:47 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f9a4ae844dc004698f0984 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ORlnBaHkjvQcJGldoawZnSWVHJX_6T2TjLLoTnlRUIRW4uGKRkKp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001485f9a4ae844dc004698f0984 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, CC! Welcome to the SWG! :) You have quite a list of stories; I hope I get a chance to check them out soon. You've written quite a bit on Lalwen! Intriguing! I agree with you on the HoMe books. I find the evolution of the characters over the decades of JRRT's life to be fascinating, not to mention those details that didn't make it into the Silm. (Like so much on Nerdanel that got passed over!) I'm getting ready to re-embark on reading the HoMe for a research project for the group and am so looking forward to uncovering more of these gems. Again, welcome, and let me know if you need anything. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001485f9a4ae844dc004698f0984 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, CC! Welcome to the SWG! :)

You have quite a list of stories; I h= ope I get a chance to check them out soon. You've written quite a bit o= n Lalwen! Intriguing!

I agree with you on the HoMe books. I find the= evolution of the characters over the decades of JRRT's life to be fasc= inating, not to mention those details that didn't make it into the Silm= . (Like so much on Nerdanel that got passed over!) I'm getting ready to= re-embark on reading the HoMe for a research project for the group and am = so looking forward to uncovering more of these gems.

Again, welcome= , and let me know if you need anything. :)

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--001485f9a4ae844dc004698f0984-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2654 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56504 invoked from network); 10 May 2009 15:24:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 May 2009 15:24:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2009 15:24:49 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.42] (helo=elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1M3AtV-00048f-K5 for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 10 May 2009 11:24:49 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Sun, 10 May 2009 11:24:49 -0400 Message-ID: <23148999.1241969089634.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 11:24:49 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec793098462ee858569ec9f917fd1c12a6e9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=k9DedbXrkIii4RjGJxCnHQOXA2UkqNO5ISGRUEJhKmn-mJeHwuiU X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Dare we hope that this will result in plotbunnies gnawing on your ankles? :)  I for one certainly hope so!  (I don't think I've ever told you before now just how much I enjoy your Feanorians, Dawn.)

And welcome to all the new group members!  You're going to like it here; it's a friendly place.

Ithilwen


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
Sent: May 10, 2009 9:42 AM
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Hi

I'm getting ready to re-embark on reading the HoMe for a research project for the group and am so looking forward to uncovering more of these gems.


Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2655 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21952 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 01:32:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 01:32:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n35b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.149) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 01:32:52 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n35.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2009 01:32:41 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2009 01:32:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 01:32:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "silver.trails" Subject: Re: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=WjDp8NhWLc11o5o5j_lLA1IGgkWuJTFMhIPxvsxEe9EBQka_p7nwYg X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails Hi Dawn! Thank you! I wrote Lalwen so much because I liked it that she left= Aman with her brother. I did write Findis a bit too, and gave them both so= ns. My favorite Silm elves are Fingon and Caranthir, though I also write ot= hers and Valar. And I really like Nerdanel. :) CC --- In SilmarillionWrit= ersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, C= C! Welcome to the SWG! :) > > You have quite a list of stories; I hope I g= et a chance to check them out > soon. You've written quite a bit on Lalwen!= Intriguing! > > I agree with you on the HoMe books. I find the evolution = of the characters > over the decades of JRRT's life to be fascinating, not = to mention those > details that didn't make it into the Silm. (Like so much= on Nerdanel that > got passed over!) I'm getting ready to re-embark on rea= ding the HoMe for a > research project for the group and am so looking forw= ard to uncovering more > of these gems. > > Again, welcome, and let me kno= w if you need anything. :) > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersgu= ild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2656 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53034 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 01:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 01:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 01:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2009 01:33:31 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2009 01:33:31 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 01:33:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <23148999.1241969089634.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "silver.trails" Subject: Re: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=YMzly7RrtZjMR63SURDhLKZQ8jwqOxDnulCHpMSOtrO3U1wqWWFufg X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails Thank you for the welcome! :) CC From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2657 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60404 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 13:59:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 13:59:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f129.google.com) (209.85.221.129) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 13:59:01 -0000 X-Received: by qyk35 with SMTP id 35so8287994qyk.6 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 06:58:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.81.198 with SMTP id y6mr323786qck.106.1242050281407; Mon, 11 May 2009 06:58:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <23148999.1241969089634.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <23148999.1241969089634.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 09:58:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367fbb82d109590469a35d8f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ikyf82UzOyKkUqk0ZuDEuoZRTGoxpjH4IO141wRjSpeo-gnSuhQY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016367fbb82d109590469a35d8f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Diana Nevins wrote: > Dare we hope that this will result in plotbunnies gnawing on your ankles? :) I for one certainly hope so! (I don't think I've ever told you before now just how much I enjoy your Feanorians, Dawn.) Thanks so much, Ithilwen! The feeling is mutual; your Feanorians first inspired me to write Silmfic! :) I do have plotbunnies, just no time for their care and feeding at the moment. :) I have a prequel to AMC started, a sequel brewing in my mind, and a couple of short stories that I still owe people for various occasions. I'm swamped with beta work and web-design projects right now, but once those clear up, I have a feeling the muses are going to have their way at last! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016367fbb82d109590469a35d8f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Diana Nevins <<= a href=3D"mailto:dlnevins@earthlink.net">dlnevins@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Dare we hope that this will result in plotbunnies gnawin= g on your ankles? :)=C2=A0 I for one certainly hope so!=C2=A0 (I don't = think I've ever told you before now just how much I enjoy your Feanoria= ns, Dawn.)
=C2=A0
Thanks so much, Ithilwen! The feel= ing is mutual; your Feanorians first inspired me to write Silmfic! :)
=
=C2=A0
I do have plotbunnies, just no time for their care = and feeding at the moment. :) I have a prequel to AMC started, a sequel bre= wing in my mind, and a couple of short stories that I still owe people for = various occasions. I'm swamped with beta work and web-design projects r= ight now, but once those clear up, I have a feeling the muses are going to = have their way at last!
=C2=A0
Dawn
<= /div>
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
<= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org">http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org
--0016367fbb82d109590469a35d8f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2658 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74466 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 14:02:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 14:02:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f117.google.com) (209.85.221.117) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 14:02:01 -0000 X-Received: by mail-qy0-f117.google.com with SMTP id 15so4052283qyk.8 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 07:02:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.91.12 with SMTP id k12mr736374qcm.66.1242050515273; Mon, 11 May 2009 07:01:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 10:01:55 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016360e3caac316dc0469a36bc4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=OLc8gan7POY3JBXF3HC1e1dljsEWpM0ghjJfFNDLh6qn9eHl_J9v X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016360e3caac316dc0469a36bc4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 9:32 PM, silver.trails wrote: > I wrote Lalwen so much because I liked it that she left Aman with her brother. I did write Findis a bit too, and gave them both sons. My favorite Silm elves are Fingon and Caranthir, though I also write others and Valar. And I really like Nerdanel. :) Oh, now I *must* make time to read some of your work. :) I have a soft spot for the female characters of Tolkien's legendarium. I need more hours in the day. (Anyone have any extras they're willing to lend? There have also been so many intriguing stories posted on the archive that I haven't had time to read ... *sigh* ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016360e3caac316dc0469a36bc4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 9:32 PM, silver.trails <silver.trails@yahoo.com>= wrote:
&g= t; I wrote Lalwen so much because I liked it that she left Aman with her br= other. I did write Findis a bit too, and gave them both sons. My favorite S= ilm elves are Fingon and Caranthir, though I also write others and Valar. A= nd I really like Nerdanel. :)
=C2=A0
Oh, now I must make time to read some= of your work. :) I have a soft spot for the female characters of Tolkien&#= 39;s legendarium. I need more hours in the day. (Anyone have any extras the= y're willing to lend? There have also been so many intriguing stories p= osted on the archive that I haven't had time to read=C2=A0... *sigh* ;)=
=C2=A0
= Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens= .net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016360e3caac316dc0469a36bc4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2659 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53452 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 14:13:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 14:13:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.188) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 14:13:30 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2009 14:13:17 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2009 14:13:17 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 14:13:15 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Announce: yes X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Mod Post: problem with reviews at the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=KPznnU43YSo7atGzWDWKdAnTxrXt8HN4IhrufcsMqNNrPWo0NONFgiM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, This weekend we found out that when you submit a review to one of = the stories at the archive, you might end up with a blank page after you pr= essed on the submit button. This being said: it can also happen that you wi= ll not encounter a problem at all. We are currently looking into this and w= e are trying to solve this as soon as possible when we have found the sourc= e of this. We want you all to know that the review is stored in the databa= se and will show up for the author and archive members, however we strongly= advise you to not refresh the page since this will only lead to duplicate = reviews. To navigate away from the blank page, we suggest for now to edit t= he url in the browser to shorten it to http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/archive/home. We apologize for the nuisance this currently gives, but w= e hope to have this fixed as soon as possible. Please let us know if you al= so had any other problems by contacting us at moderator(a)silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org and we will do our best to fix the problem! Thanks so much for= your patience! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2660 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69491 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 16:18:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 16:18:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web46016.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (68.180.199.109) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 16:18:36 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 81042 invoked by uid 60001); 11 May 2009 16:18:35 -0000 Message-ID: <806351.76003.qm@web46016.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: wpkzS8oVM1mda9.u9CPsFbHdE.p3S54oTTjJm_8uKIdRLwYSJlwWrLMickJkm5p0xt7KVSPysSrfeuHOaYqHQ9CCEOTIEdZDGcsiMsJ4gdsxlm8ZzMWmy20fY8X.vMdnkRW1.aTVQIDqx.eQuWz3Vt0A_JkR_1moK0lQCQw_6PRUVEqRxe.4XFTeN13IuXG9eZUOkh8ME.B0STkJ0xCwhc_ddyXDMZVkVIL8GPm2pyIgDJr2TYvzwWS.YGeNjBs1ljvRiRC6T3TlnS35nTvCYY81tt48zLuW4NSbgrLOoEBW3v.Ls4o75vBH4MBbi8vQWpjBZS52iara6NKL X-Received: from [200.62.245.179] by web46016.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:18:35 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.3.9 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 09:18:35 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1640475401-1242058715=:76003" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silver Trails Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=EiTk245k39AJH_EU0fla8bWPe2AISkxecsrFO8bbGeX7dn1YOpJeYA X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails --0-1640475401-1242058715=:76003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And I am without time to write at the moment, but I'll make some. :) =A0 Wh= ere are your fics? In the group archive? In a webpage or journal? =A0 CC = --- On Mon, 5/11/09, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: = Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGui= ld] Re: Hi To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 1= 1, 2009, 2:01 PM On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 9:32 PM, silver.trails wrote: > I wrote Lalwen so much because I liked i= t that she left Aman with her brother. I did write Findis a bit too, and ga= ve them both sons. My favorite Silm elves are Fingon and Caranthir, though = I also write others and Valar. And I really like Nerdanel. :) =A0 Oh, now I= must make time to read some of your work. :) I have a soft spot for the fe= male characters of Tolkien's legendarium. I need more hours in the day. (An= yone have any extras they're willing to lend? There have also been so many = intriguing stories posted on the archive that I haven't had time to read=A0= ... *sigh* ;) =A0 Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens .net/he= retic_ loremaster/ http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org = --0-1640475401-1242058715=:76003 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
And I am without time to write at the mo= ment, but I'll make some. :)
 
Where are your fi= cs? In the group archive? In a webpage or journal?
 
=
CC

--- On Mon, 5/11/09, Dawn Felagund wrote:

From: Dawn = Felagund
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter= sGuild] Re: Hi
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon= day, May 11, 2009, 2:01 PM

On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 9:32 PM, silver.trails &= lt;silver.trails@ yahoo.com> wrote:
> I wrote Lalwen so much beca= use I liked it that she left Aman with her brother. I did write Findis a bi= t too, and gave them both sons. My favorite Silm elves are Fingon and Caran= thir, though I also write others and Valar. And I really like Nerdanel. :)<= /DIV>
 
Oh, no= w I must make time to read some of your work. :) I have a soft spo= t for the female characters of Tolkien's legendarium. I need more hours in = the day. (Anyone have any extras they're willing to lend? There have also b= een so many intriguing stories posted on the archive that I haven't had tim= e to read ... *sigh* ;)
 
Dawn

--
~oOo~=
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremast= er/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org
=

--0-1640475401-1242058715=:76003-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2661 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48560 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 17:17:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 17:17:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f125.google.com) (209.85.221.125) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 17:17:04 -0000 X-Received: by qyk31 with SMTP id 31so4339075qyk.21 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 10:16:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.91.13 with SMTP id k13mr955042qcm.98.1242062177557; Mon, 11 May 2009 10:16:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <806351.76003.qm@web46016.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <806351.76003.qm@web46016.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 13:16:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016361e8134e1e5720469a622ef X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=I5gWgYE3KihdSr2r1Vb6rvWLhrYTsPrOt9MYC7ZsLRMmfwKEYbkP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016361e8134e1e5720469a622ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Silver Trails wrote: > And I am without time to write at the moment, but I'll make some. :) I hear you on that! Unfortunately, I think I'm at the point where, short of adding hours to the day, making some isn't likely. ;) But when these current web projects are finished, I hope that will change. > Where are your fics? In the group archive? In a webpage or journal? I'm working on getting everything moved to my webpage, but at the moment, my stories are scattered across the Internet. :) I do, however, have them all tagged on Delicious: http://delicious.com/DawnFelagund/dawn_felagund Good luck with finding time to write! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016361e8134e1e5720469a622ef Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Silver Trails <silver.trails@yahoo.com> wrote:

> And I am without time to w= rite at the moment, but I'll make some. :)
=C2=A0
I hear you on that! Unfortunat= ely, I think I'm at the point where, short of adding hours to the day, = making some isn't likely. ;) But when these current web projects are fi= nished, I hope that will change.
=C2=A0
> Where are your fics? In the group arch= ive? In a webpage or journal?
=C2=A0
=
I'm working on getting everything moved to = my webpage, but at the moment, my stories are scattered across the Internet= . :) I do, however, have them all tagged on Delicious:
=C2=A0
http://delicious.com/DawnFelagund/daw= n_felagund
=C2=A0
Good luck with finding time to write! :)
=C2=A0
Dawn
=C2=A0

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund<= br>http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016361e8134e1e5720469a622ef-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2662 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51008 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 17:51:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 17:51:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web46006.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (68.180.199.99) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 17:51:12 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 65422 invoked by uid 60001); 11 May 2009 17:50:11 -0000 Message-ID: <361240.64192.qm@web46006.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: oYqALo4VM1mCQ.gO6tmJ.jmeCoi_7VRZr_TPZLPK5_lrIFQUZkX38.XM97hCYSuQSQriVQByc3H0P02Y_mpqOh_1OFCZEirkvEu5j3MxOxeZnmu9n84el9gAcX72yye7TNN5z6fb8b9KjKaSwJYEQvj2ZONtVxuYO_qjl75GyyCmSbvjISHFHDZPkIVz77JcepWgFAmArzjXAr_QELfwvtZ2qvYxkSDfR2RZf.JjkmubGZPWwF0u0lCLCZgo39uMD2AEvcvm2jG9SJOElHonRKDqzkoBWQcYqtV_0QngzQVTpiUGkRfQtSG05oQNIr3JYcMN8DnHbrhmEDte X-Received: from [200.62.245.179] by web46006.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2009 10:50:11 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.3.9 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 10:50:11 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1246363527-1242064211=:64192" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silver Trails Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=-BmevklCNP46VEP29rIy5iAB65ut6_fQga63EBr2DHDOEfFgPLbGXA X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails --0-1246363527-1242064211=:64192 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks! And thanks again for the link! :) =A0 CC --- On Mon, 5/11/09, Dawn= Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Hi To: Silmarilli= onWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:16 PM = On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Silver Trails = wrote: > And I am without time to write at the moment, but I'll make some= . :) =A0 I hear you on that! Unfortunately, I think I'm at the point where,= short of adding hours to the day, making some isn't likely. ;) But when th= ese current web projects are finished, I hope that will change. =A0 > Where= are your fics? In the group archive? In a webpage or journal? =A0 I'm work= ing on getting everything moved to my webpage, but at the moment, my storie= s are scattered across the Internet. :) I do, however, have them all tagged= on Delicious: =A0 http://delicious. com/DawnFelagund /dawn_felagund =A0 Go= od luck with finding time to write! :) =A0 Dawn =A0 -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagun= d http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/ http://www.silmaril lionwri= tersguild .org --0-1246363527-1242064211=:64192 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--0-1246363527-1242064211=:64192-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2663 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81253 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 19:41:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 19:41:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.66) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 19:41:57 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.39] (helo=elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1M3bNt-000687-CS for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 11 May 2009 15:41:57 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2009 15:41:57 -0400 Message-ID: <26431525.1242070917359.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:41:57 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b19e8c94ce3d8a8fa4372e3da3488c46350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: problem with reviews at the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=B0WWhJ-8ZODZo5kv2tS7lNfBevfs-OIBAgdl5ccgb0qEOqQtJJgX X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 FYI, Mods - it doesn't just happen with reviews. I've had it happen a few times when adding a story or chapter. Being new to posting at the archive, I didn't report anything because I thought it might be a problem with my browser (since I run NoScript). Ithilwen -----Original Message----- >From: rhapsody_the_bard >Sent: May 11, 2009 10:13 AM >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: problem with reviews at the archive > >Hi all, > >This weekend we found out that when you submit a review to one of the stories at the archive, you might end up with a blank page after you pressed on the submit button. This being said: it can also happen that you will not encounter a problem at all. We are currently looking into this and we are trying to solve this as soon as possible when we have found the source of this. > >We want you all to know that the review is stored in the database and will show up for the author and archive members, however we strongly advise you to not refresh the page since this will only lead to duplicate reviews. To navigate away from the blank page, we suggest for now to edit the url in the browser to shorten it to http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home. We apologize for the nuisance this currently gives, but we hope to have this fixed as soon as possible. Please let us know if you also had any other problems by contacting us at moderator(a)silmarillionwritersguild.org and we will do our best to fix the problem! > >Thanks so much for your patience! > >Rhapsody > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2664 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24734 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 19:45:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 19:45:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 19:45:27 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-34a08804b361; Mon, 11 May 2009 15:45:15 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d10.4c674425 (42805) for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 15:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:45:09 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1242071109" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.202 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: problem with reviews at the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=BGT-g_6GRMnet5GY6BcAQeTU4riBHB_FuebN0e624dcqx-91L1fo X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1242071109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI, Mods - it doesn't just happen with reviews. I haven't posted any new stories. But it did happen to me with the reviews. I closed the window and went back in and double-checked and review had been added, so I also assumed it was just me or a flunk. I did not understand the instruction about "shortening" the link, however. Oshun **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585010x1201462743/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51109NO62) -------------------------------1242071109 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
FYI, Mods - it doesn't just happen with reviews. =
I haven't posted any new stories. But it did happ= en to me with the reviews. I closed the window and went back in and double= -checked and review had been added, so I also assumed it was just me or a = flunk.
 
I did not understand the instruction ab= out "shortening" the link, however.
 
Oshun
 

An Excellent Cre= dit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2= Easy Steps!
-------------------------------1242071109-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2665 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44082 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 20:08:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 20:08:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 20:08:33 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2009 20:08:31 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2009 20:08:31 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 20:08:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Mod Post: problem with reviews at the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=AbtvMEHXqsCN_rCiU7387H_PBq_oMHhGXzQQXMGfhgRaZ-B2FYEJ0lg X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: H= i Oshun! >> FYI, Mods - it doesn't just happen with reviews. > I haven'= t posted any new stories. But it did happen to me with the > reviews. > I= closed the window and went back in and double-checked and review > had be= en added, so I also assumed it was just me or a flunk. > > I did not und= erstand the instruction about "shortening" the link, > however. Thanks Osh= un for letting us know! We always appreciate it to hear if something is ac= ting funky. Truly, newcomer or not :) With shortening the link I meant: go= to the adress bar of your browser (the place where you enter url's of the = page you want to visit), remove the 'reviews.php?action=3Dadd&type=3DST&ite= m=3D001' bit from the url (in full it would like 'http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org/archive/home/reviews.php?action=3Dadd&type=3DST&item=3D001')= and hit enter. That should bring you back to the archive homepage. Is thi= s more clear? My apologies for not explaining it better. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2666 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90806 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 20:26:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 20:26:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-m07.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.209) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 20:26:39 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-m07.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a08899c24e; Mon, 11 May 2009 16:25:00 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.bf6.2d42bed6 (42805) for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 16:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:24:49 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1242073489" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.201 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Mod Post: problem with reviews at the arch... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=jXCPI5z4WagRF1lh7KmXVN9Hxf9VIMR96KhQ1cIHPsLl7YQy_4x8 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1242073489 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/11/2009 4:09:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes: With shortening the link I meant: go to the adress bar of your browser (the place where you enter url's of the page you want to visit), remove the 'reviews.php?With s&ty&item=item=001' bit from the url (in full it wo_http://www.silmarilhttp://www.silmahttp://www.sihttp://www.sihttp://www.htt&type=ty&item=001_ (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/reviews.php?action=add&type=ST&item=001) ') and hit enter. That should bring you back to the archive homepage. After you have written the review? **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585010x1201462743/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51109NO62) -------------------------------1242073489 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
In a message date= d 5/11/2009 4:09:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rhapsody74@gmail.com writes:=
With shortening the link I meant: go t= o the adress bar of your browser (the place where you enter url's of the= page you want to visit), remove the 'reviews.php?action=3Dadd&= type=3DST&item=3D001' bit from the url (in full it would l= ike 'http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/arc= hive/home/reviews.php?action=3Dadd&type=3DST&it= em=3D001') and hit enter. That should bring you back to the archive = homepage.
After you have written the review?<= /DIV>

 
 

An Excellent Credit Score is= 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!=
-------------------------------1242073489-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2667 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5232 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 20:57:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 20:57:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 20:57:42 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2009 20:57:25 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2009 20:57:25 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 20:57:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Mod Post: problem with reviews at the arch... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=NTp9UL73xTIBjmvY8lps4Zq7XPj1IRocYNsys54j5dfLwO4 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 That should bring you back to the archive homepage. > > After you have wr= itten the review? > TBH, I just shut down on the blank page, and re-opene= d from the bookmarks. I hope that worked! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2668 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18950 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 22:30:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 22:30:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.125.50) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 22:30:00 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 25044 invoked by uid 60001); 11 May 2009 22:28:59 -0000 Message-ID: <851302.22495.qm@web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: EIbRw6EVM1n_F_2g9arEcL8xEKDgKy6SAL06VNtZI4Qumy8pyhsZOjDKQEbz0qRhtm.NNOJ4yA_PFlzwjfO2IYTo3snojqaDtPTld7WeGlYwOhN5CMa.yThVrtgxENi7bNiSy4F0OFySGuA35hVn7S0n529cnXKijHkR1mjgx2tayGPeFCZqteMC5kZ9Zq6zv1hAXo8ILP0nStGTwysJw2Gb9jsDsZsF1PYsPkwPzPYjAIwtR.L5jKqqybfnCx12galZUAcWMBwfKkRGv.0aww4f.b8MY24rTGm7p0egktXZGlb9p797RPu1AHLi7kFIpaKHWV5O.yA2VGJdE48A2vAQJyM55foWBjVnWy2rS0OrhrVScTah X-Received: from [190.191.96.88] by web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2009 15:28:59 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 References: Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:28:59 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-763202215-1242080939=:22495" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Angelica Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Mod Post: problem with reviews at the arch... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=LvxN0VtVq5ddcpdOx0-K3Jtvus0O_q2BO6PfTEsNGdf0m6r-pPys07YF X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --0-763202215-1242080939=:22495 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Moreth, Yes it did! (just checked) A simple way to work while things get sorted out! (keeps fingers crossed) Angelica ________________________________ From: moreth00 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 5:57:23 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Mod Post: problem with reviews at the arch... That should bring you back to the archive homepage. > > After you have written the review? > TBH, I just shut down on the blank page, and re-opened from the bookmarks. I hope that worked! --0-763202215-1242080939=:22495 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi, Moreth,
Yes it did! (just checked) A simple way to work while things get sorted out! (keeps fingers crossed)
Angelica

From: moreth00
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 5:57:23 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Mod Post: problem with reviews at the arch...

That should bring you back to the archive homepage.
>
> After you have written the review?
>

TBH, I just shut down on the blank page, and re-opened from the bookmarks. I hope that worked!


--0-763202215-1242080939=:22495-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2669 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81249 invoked from network); 11 May 2009 23:53:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2009 23:53:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.92.27) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2009 23:53:21 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 8so1853259qwh.63 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 16:52:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.84.209 with SMTP id k17mr884351qcl.61.1242085941426; Mon, 11 May 2009 16:52:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 19:52:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364eef7451ba030469abab20 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Mod Post: problem with reviews at the arch... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8Ekcks9Z2OR9ntgSmbUj2xKux5-jGJdpjRfKyKnTG9s6g4PkbPf- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364eef7451ba030469abab20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 4:24 PM, wrote: > After you have written the review? Yes. If you write the review and get a blank screen, delete everything after the home/ and it should take you back to the main page, from which you can verify that the review did indeed go through. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364eef7451ba030469abab20 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 4:24 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
> After you have written the review?

Yes. If you write the review and get a blank screen, delete everything after the home/ and it should take you back to the main page, from which you can verify that the review did indeed go through.

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364eef7451ba030469abab20-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2670 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77584 invoked from network); 12 May 2009 01:54:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 May 2009 01:54:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.159.7) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 May 2009 01:54:09 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-d06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a08d658236; Mon, 11 May 2009 21:52:24 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d38.4ab7ab68 (42805) for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 21:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 21:52:15 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1242093135" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.200 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Mod Post: problem with reviews at the arc... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=lFFrRuCzBOclKMyIvRtIbZOyHHOXZWzkqjBvl6WQbufWXDMWAkao X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1242093135 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes. If you write the review and get a blank screen, delete everything after the home/ and it should take you back to the main page, from which you can verify that the review did indeed go through. Thanks, Dawn! **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585010x1201462743/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51109NO62) -------------------------------1242093135 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Yes. If you write the review and get a blank = screen, delete everything after the home/ and it should take you back to= the main page, from which you can verify that the review did indeed go = through.

Thanks, Dawn!

An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
-------------------------------1242093135-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2671 Return-Path: X-Sender: LadyElleth@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64903 invoked from network); 12 May 2009 10:15:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 May 2009 10:15:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-m06.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.200) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 May 2009 10:15:40 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-m06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a094c3d28; Tue, 12 May 2009 06:15:25 -0400 X-Received: from LadyElleth@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d44.469c5f19 (34990) for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 06:15:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from smtprly-da03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.146]) by cia-db01.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB013-5bbe4a094c333ba; Tue, 12 May 2009 06:15:16 -0400 X-Received: from Webmail-mg15 (webmail-mg15.sim.aol.com [64.12.142.163]) by smtprly-da03.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDA035-5bbe4a094c333ba; Tue, 12 May 2009 06:15:15 -0400 References: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 06:15:15 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.139 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 42949-STANDARD X-Received: from 134.100.140.3 by Webmail-mg15.sim.aol.com (64.12.142.163) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 12 May 2009 06:15:15 -0400 Message-Id: <8CBA101AD671962-56C-2CD6@Webmail-mg15.sim.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: LadyElleth@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: problem with reviews at the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145092876; y=wj9clg0oCRjBk2Axi2fnbY8xGTpb5gzOE0PX8AObWdd_TqDFZg X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth Hi, Another bug to add to your list: Review notification emails are not c= oming through - not for me, anyway. I checked spam folders, deleted mail a= nd filtered things, nothing there although notifications are enabled. Hope= this doesn't pose too much of a problem, good luck for fixing the rest, a= nd hooray for the moddy miracle workers. Elleth -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche M= itteilung----- Von: rhapsody_the_bard An: Silmarilli= onWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Verschickt: Mo., 11. Mai. 2009, 16:13 Thema:= [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: problem with reviews at the archive = Hi all, This weekend we found out that when you submit a review to one o= f the stories at the archive, you might end up with a blank page after you= pressed on the submit button. This being said: it can also happen that y= ou will not encounter a problem at all. We are currently looking into this= and we are trying to solve this as soon as possible when we have found th= e source of this. We want you all to know that the review is stored in the= database and will show up for the author and archive members, however we = strongly advise you to not refresh the page since this will only lead to = duplicate reviews. To navigate away from the blank page, we suggest for no= w to edit the url in the browser to shorten it to http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/archive/home. We apologize for the nuisance this currently= gives, but20we hope to have this fixed as soon as possible. Please let us= know if you also had any other problems by contacting us at moderator(a)s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org and we will do our best to fix the problem! T= hanks so much for your patience! Rhapsody = Hi all, This weekend we found out that when you submit a review to one= of the stories at the archive, you might end up with a blank page after y= ou pressed on the submit button. This being said: it can also happen that = you will not encounter a problem at all. We are currently looking into th= is and we are trying to solve this as soon as possible when we have found = the source of this. We want you all to know that the review is stored in= the database and will show up for the author and archive members, however= we strongly advise you to not refresh the page since this will only lead = to duplicate reviews. To navigate away from the blank page, we suggest for= now to edit the url in the browser to shorten it to http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/archive/home. We apologize for the nuisance this curre= ntly gives, but we hope to have this fixed as soon as possible. Please let= us know if you also had any other problems by contacting us at moderator(= a)silmarillionwritersguild.org and w e will do our best to fix the problem= ! Thanks so much for your patience! Rhapsody = ________________________________________________________________________ A= OL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k=C3=B6nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL= email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2672 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80426 invoked from network); 12 May 2009 12:36:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 May 2009 12:36:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f111.google.com) (209.85.221.111) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 May 2009 12:36:23 -0000 X-Received: by qyk9 with SMTP id 9so4686002qyk.4 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 05:36:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.84.209 with SMTP id k17mr1011222qcl.61.1242131782163; Tue, 12 May 2009 05:36:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8CBA101AD671962-56C-2CD6@Webmail-mg15.sim.aol.com> References: <8CBA101AD671962-56C-2CD6@Webmail-mg15.sim.aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 08:36:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364eef74a3ddbe0469b6574f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: problem with reviews at the archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ocxvxSyzM29iwLUAHcEWLdhf8NFGnqodxUsCeZ1yW6cnENJLdiCS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364eef74a3ddbe0469b6574f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 6:15 AM, wrote: > Another bug to add to your list: Review notification emails are not > coming through - not for me, anyway. Thanks, Elleth, for letting us know. :) Rhapsody and I have strong suspicions that our troubles might be caused by the upgrade that took the site down for a couple of hours last week. I have asked another Tolkien group that runs a different version of eFiction with the same host as we do to test something for me today, so hopefully that will shed some light on the issue. > hooray for the moddy miracle workers. Lol, I hope you're not speaking too soon on that! :D Dawn in desperate need of a can of bug spray -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364eef74a3ddbe0469b6574f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 6:15 AM, <LadyElleth@aol.com> wrote:
= > Another bug to add to your list: Review notification emails are not > coming through - not for me, anyway.
=C2=A0
Th= anks, Elleth, for letting us know. :)
=C2=A0
Rhapsody= and I have strong suspicions that our troubles might be caused by the upgr= ade that took the site down for a couple of hours last week. I have asked a= nother Tolkien group that runs a different version of eFiction with the sam= e host as we do to test something for me today, so hopefully that will shed= some light on the issue.
=C2=A0
> hooray for the= moddy miracle workers.
=C2=A0
Lol, I hope you're= not speaking too soon on that! :D
=C2=A0
Dawn
=
in desperate need of a can of bug spray
=C2=A0
= =C2=A0
--0016364eef74a3ddbe0469b6574f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2673 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23987 invoked from network); 12 May 2009 12:58:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 May 2009 12:58:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f120.google.com) (209.85.221.120) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 May 2009 12:58:19 -0000 X-Received: by qyk26 with SMTP id 26so4812090qyk.1 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 05:58:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.91.12 with SMTP id k12mr1408691qcm.66.1242133089131; Tue, 12 May 2009 05:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 08:58:08 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016360e3caa8a9cf70469b6a51e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: An FYI on the Numenorean Writers and Researchers Guild (NWRG) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=9VRAv2CrP0lZynxR5LKSMVFUPvHDdH6jqKghV-NbwZxyBxGAQbKi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016360e3caa8a9cf70469b6a51e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, It is not a good week for *Silmarillion*-related groups, it seems. I don't know if Lady Roisin has had a chance to get the word out to the members of the NWRG Yahoo! group, but I figure we probably have a good bit of overlap in membership here and there and so thought an FYI couldn't hurt. NWRG is experiencing serious technical problems right now. You won't be able to access the group on Yahoo!. I don't know much beyond that, but I did want to get the word out that Lady R is aware of the issue, lest someone try to access the group and discover it missing. Now, Murphy, out of the cogs of *Silmarillion* fandom! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016360e3caa8a9cf70469b6a51e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,
=C2=A0
It is not a good week for Si= lmarillion-related groups, it seems.
=C2=A0
I do= n't know if Lady Roisin has had a chance to get the word out to the mem= bers of the NWRG Yahoo! group, but I figure we probably have a good bit of = overlap in membership here and there and so thought an FYI couldn't hur= t. NWRG is experiencing serious technical problems right now. You won't= be able to access the group on Yahoo!. I don't know much beyond that, = but I did want to get the word out that Lady R is aware of the issue, lest = someone try to access the group and discover it missing.
=C2=A0=
Now, Murphy, out of the cogs of Silmarillion fandom! := )
=C2=A0
Dawn

= --
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org
--0016360e3caa8a9cf70469b6a51e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2674 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23078 invoked from network); 13 May 2009 12:46:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 May 2009 12:46:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-px0-f131.google.com) (209.85.216.131) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2009 12:46:53 -0000 X-Received: by pxi37 with SMTP id 37so218633pxi.13 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 05:46:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.127.1 with SMTP id z1mr895552wac.3.1242218811816; Wed, 13 May 2009 05:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:46:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163645811002fd6a0469ca9bba X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Mod Post: Update on Archive Bugs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=X5A3solMJ0QuvDwI5NqRfint844AUGYSwLpRRhU13WNnAOjObP5z X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163645811002fd6a0469ca9bba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, Rhapsody and I have come to some conclusions about the archive, so I wanted to catch everyone up to speed with how the bug infestation is being handled. First, it appears that our problems are connected to the upgrades our host did last week. For whatever reason, some of the scripts for the archive software are now only being executed halfway. That means that events coded at the start of the script (like adding a review or story to the database) are working just fine, but those events at the end of the script (adding an updated story to the Most Recent list, sending review notifications, redirecting to the appropriate page after a story or review is added) are just not being done. Rhapsody has been playing with various options to fix our problem, and the kind moderators at the LotR GFic group tested some things in their new archive for us, since they use the same host and a later version of the archive software, and based on the conclusions of both, we're pretty sure at this point that we're going to have to reinstall the archive. What this means for you all is that the archive will probably be offline for a few hours while we make backups, set up the archive again from scratch, and replace the content of the old archive on the new. We don't know when we're going to do this yet, but we'll let everyone know when we have a date and timeframe set up. So that's where we stand. :) I want to thank everyone again for their patience with the problems we've been having and for helping us by reporting bugs when you find them. As always, we're available to help if you're having problems; just drop us a line at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163645811002fd6a0469ca9bba Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,
=C2=A0
Rhapsody and I have come to some= conclusions about the archive, so I wanted to catch everyone up to speed w= ith how the bug infestation is being handled. First, it appears that our pr= oblems are connected to the upgrades our host did last week. For whatever r= eason, some of the scripts for the archive software are now only being exec= uted halfway. That means that events coded at the start of the script (like= adding a review or story to the database) are working just fine, but those= events at the end of the script (adding an updated story to the Most Recen= t list, sending review notifications, redirecting to the appropriate page a= fter a story or review is added) are just not being done.
=C2= =A0
Rhapsody has been playing with various options to fix our pr= oblem, and the kind moderators at the LotR GFic group tested some things in= their new archive for us, since they use the same host and a later version= of the archive software, and based on the conclusions of both, we're p= retty sure at this point that we're going to have to reinstall the arch= ive. What this means for you all is that the archive will probably be offli= ne for a few hours while we make backups, set up the archive again from scr= atch, and replace the content of the old archive on the new. We don't k= now when we're going to do this yet, but we'll let everyone know wh= en we have a date and timeframe set up.
=C2=A0
So th= at's where we stand. :) I want to thank everyone again for their patien= ce with the problems we've been having and for helping us by reporting = bugs when you find them. As always, we're available to help if you'= re having problems; just drop us a line at moderator AT silmarillionwriters= guild DOT org.
=C2=A0
All the best,
=C2= =A0
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
<= a href=3D"http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/">http://themidhavens.= net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00163645811002fd6a0469ca9bba-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2675 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6789 invoked from network); 13 May 2009 14:05:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 May 2009 14:05:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2009 14:05:08 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.52] (helo=mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1M4F52-0006nN-Fv for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 13 May 2009 10:05:08 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 13 May 2009 10:05:08 -0400 Message-ID: <9103326.1242223508461.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:05:08 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7917fdbd049af117296fa6bfd8e87cb13d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: Update on Archive Bugs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=a4ntHLDLaUrEBp2Mb-fKqYYqw_I5SS3fcWpw2sTNVYlHpNRe15vR X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Reinstalling the archive?! What an absolute pain! Still, if that's what it takes to swat the bugs... (Easy for me to say, since I'm not going to be the one doing the reinstall). Best of luck with the fix. You mods are fantastic. Ithilwen -----Original Message----- >From: Dawn Felagund >Sent: May 13, 2009 8:46 AM >To: SWG >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: Update on Archive Bugs > >Hi, all, > >Rhapsody and I have come to some conclusions about the archive, so I wanted >to catch everyone up to speed with how the bug infestation is being handled. >First, it appears that our problems are connected to the upgrades our host >did last week. For whatever reason, some of the scripts for the archive >software are now only being executed halfway. That means that events coded >at the start of the script (like adding a review or story to the database) >are working just fine, but those events at the end of the script (adding an >updated story to the Most Recent list, sending review notifications, >redirecting to the appropriate page after a story or review is added) are >just not being done. > >Rhapsody has been playing with various options to fix our problem, and the >kind moderators at the LotR GFic group tested some things in their new >archive for us, since they use the same host and a later version of the >archive software, and based on the conclusions of both, we're pretty sure at >this point that we're going to have to reinstall the archive. What this >means for you all is that the archive will probably be offline for a few >hours while we make backups, set up the archive again from scratch, and >replace the content of the old archive on the new. We don't know when we're >going to do this yet, but we'll let everyone know when we have a date and >timeframe set up. > >So that's where we stand. :) I want to thank everyone again for their >patience with the problems we've been having and for helping us by reporting >bugs when you find them. As always, we're available to help if you're having >problems; just drop us a line at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT >org. > >All the best, > >Dawn > >-- >~oOo~ >Dawn Felagund >http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ >http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2676 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42197 invoked from network); 13 May 2009 15:44:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 May 2009 15:44:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.159.7) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2009 15:44:14 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-d06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-34a0ae96a256; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:38:18 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.cc3.4640d644 (41809) for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:38:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:38:03 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1242229083" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.139 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: Update on Archive Bugs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=9lUnpbObtRQSRpd9Y-8Wqtv-K-Woi7c5NJVdfaYrOYG6BTm_qZoO X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1242229083 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am so sorry you guys that sounds awful. **************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221972443x1201442012/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819441%3B36680237%3Bi) -------------------------------1242229083 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I am so sorry you= guys that sounds awful.
 -------------------------------1242229083-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2677 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65997 invoked from network); 14 May 2009 18:04:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 May 2009 18:04:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 May 2009 18:04:37 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 May 2009 18:03:46 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 May 2009 18:03:46 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:03:44 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Need some feedback X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=ZK-U3BBVpwUQYNsXtvIn9E-Mv-nY4tXizwmYBuSPpPoWhxxd-Fc X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 I'm looking for a fan of Indis and the Vanyar who could look over a WIP for= me (It's just at 6 pages long now). I'm venturing into uncharted waters (f= or me anyway) and need some basic feedback, not any heavy beta work. Any = takers? Thanks! Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2678 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76115 invoked from network); 14 May 2009 20:20:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 May 2009 20:20:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 May 2009 20:20:29 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 May 2009 20:20:25 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.13] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 May 2009 20:20:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:20:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Need some feedback X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=72dxxQVpDccJjADiwFN6SAtwnal_GhfEGY7x9YdPd8qiM9U X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "ellfine2000" wrote: > > I'm looking for a fan of Indis and the Vanyar who could look = over a WIP for me (It's just at 6 pages long now). I'm venturing into uncha= rted waters (for me anyway) and need some basic feedback, not any heavy bet= a work. > > Any takers? > > Thanks! > Ellie > Hi Ellie, *Jumps in with= both feet* Sure, I'm happy to read and comment. I have no real feel for w= here you are coming from, but I like to think I'm pretty open to ideas... A= nd I'll cheerfully recommend a long list of others who might be able to hel= p you too! Drop me mail if you'd like (xjay2 at hotmail dot com). If you'v= e found what you are looking for already, then no worries :D Have fun, Mo= reth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2679 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33282 invoked from network); 15 May 2009 20:25:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 May 2009 20:25:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f111.google.com) (209.85.221.111) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2009 20:25:06 -0000 X-Received: by qyk9 with SMTP id 9so660281qyk.13 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 13:24:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.86.145 with SMTP id s17mr2587723qcl.10.1242419046325; Fri, 15 May 2009 13:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 16:24:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636427251eb1fb00469f93969 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Mod Post: Bugs Fixed! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YW-PTcLHIu5DotcSixlCed98cv3Fsuukz8jbG_uhjQrokhHmaaW8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636427251eb1fb00469f93969 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, I have good news to report: The numerous bugs that we experienced after Bluehost's upgrade to our systems have been *fixed*! And we didn't have to reinstall the archive either. :) Here is a recap of the bugs we found; *all* of these should be fixed. If you continue to experience these or any other problems, please let us know by either contacting Rhapsody or me off-list, posting to this list, or sending an email to moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. -Leaving a review redirected to a blank page. -Posting a new story redirected to a blank page. -Updated stories were not added to the Most Recent list. -Review notifications were not being sent. -Registering as a new member redirected to a blank page. Again, none of these problems should continue. If they do, please let us know. Thank you again to all of you who reported your experiences and tried different things so that we could narrow down the problem. And thanks to * everyone* for your patience with us over the last few days while we got things figured out. Best regards, Dawn, who is looking forward to a full night's sleep now ;) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636427251eb1fb00469f93969 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I have good news to report: The numerous bugs that we exper= ienced after Bluehost's upgrade to our systems have been fixed! = And we didn't have to reinstall the archive either. :)

Here is a= recap of the bugs we found; all of these should be fixed. If you co= ntinue to experience these or any other problems, please let us know by eit= her contacting Rhapsody or me off-list, posting to this list, or sending an= email to moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.

-Leaving a= review redirected to a blank page.

-Posting a new story redirected = to a blank page.

-Updated stories were not added to the Most Recent = list.

-Review notifications were not being sent.

-Registerin= g as a new member redirected to a blank page.

Again, none of these p= roblems should continue. If they do, please let us know.

Thank you a= gain to all of you who reported your experiences and tried different things= so that we could narrow down the problem. And thanks to everyone fo= r your patience with us over the last few days while we got things figured = out.

Best regards,

Dawn, who is looking forward to a full ni= ght's sleep now ;)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhave= ns.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636427251eb1fb00469f93969-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2680 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34547 invoked from network); 15 May 2009 20:46:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 May 2009 20:46:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2009 20:46:03 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2009 20:45:22 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2009 20:45:22 -0000 Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:45:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Mod Post: Bugs Fixed! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=ldzG5rfHQcgS5Mqg0AKeGm7stSQBmb08dGzxOz2qgGGpyck X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 > > Dawn, who is looking forward to a full night's sleep now ;) > Let m= e pass your desired beverage and wish you all a great weekend! Moreth From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2681 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38140 invoked from network); 16 May 2009 00:38:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2009 00:38:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2009 00:38:50 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2009 00:38:32 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.14] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2009 00:38:32 -0000 Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 00:38:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Questions about Valinor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=5nejRC53VW0Ac92XY52NDsUVgOItk4HJwlz9NuTT2e-0_BCLG3k X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Does anyone know the name of the city of the Vanyar? Is it Valmar or is tha= t the city of the Valar? Also how far is it from the city of the Vanyar to = Tirion? How many days' ride on horseback, do you guess? Thanks! Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2683 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15132 invoked from network); 16 May 2009 02:33:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2009 02:33:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web46004.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (68.180.199.97) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2009 02:33:10 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 41160 invoked by uid 60001); 16 May 2009 02:32:06 -0000 Message-ID: <608198.39322.qm@web46004.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: khAonO4VM1n7Mogp.BozeYGNebCwwTk03wghyR81yZ_xk4c3fE7M6qHu5I.zMbhP4_3XM.ftYtfAnjRTxxMMpodX_lPreNQYdQ_JBjDStMniKfm_yIbOHDvXrPrqzEjTVqwPvCohZjzqzz3BMNLUHyXl6YH2brrQzDm8Fuw7hBULvwiB3DuviKZLN10HD_gMAgs9nzs53Ltm8pgu8hmRNPZQvgyyrCOBE7YS5iIsGa_dUS8T.LepMx1NSTQye4fSGYNp8oxqpl2zjFNTeC42DCPZv7fc.qJNmU0G47Ob_RTQlZDFKJidtxdnSFyA8iewGbeJ2jI6mXi_JUpEDg-- X-Received: from [201.230.179.232] by web46004.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 May 2009 19:32:06 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.3.9 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 19:32:06 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1472010895-1242441126=:39322" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silver Trails Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Questions about Valinor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=VULlGdhXwCVHf4Xo71qZpqWdCzhTtpZ97LjEaGGQulbeMmeJcOp0Vw X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails --0-1472010895-1242441126=:39322 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Vanyar used to live in Tirion, but then they left the city and settled = near Taniquetil. I'd say they live in a certain area of Valmar. =A0 There = is a tale, in Home perhaps? Or in the Silm, where Finw=EB goes to visit Ing= w=EB, and that's when he meets Indis. Why don't you check there? That will = give you an idea. there are maps too. Just google Aman and you'll get them.= =A0 CC --- On Sat, 5/16/09, ellfine2000 wrote: = From: ellfine2000 Subject: [SilmarillionWritersG= uild] Questions about Valinor To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com = Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 12:38 AM Does anyone know the name of= the city of the Vanyar? Is it Valmar or is that the city of the Valar? Als= o how far is it from the city of the Vanyar to Tirion? How many days' ride = on horseback, do you guess? Thanks! Ellie --0-1472010895-1242441126=:39322 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks! And thanks again for the link! := )
 
CC

--- On Mon, 5/11/09, Dawn Felag= und wrote:

From: Dawn Felagund
Subject= : Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Hi
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yah= oogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:16 PM

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Silve= r Trails <silver.trails@ yahoo.com>= wrote:

> And I am without time to writ= e at the moment, but I'll make some. :)
&nbs= p;
I hear you on that! Unfortunately, I thin= k I'm at the point where, short of adding hours to the day, making some isn= 't likely. ;) But when these current web projects are finished, I hope that= will change.
 
> Where are your fics? In the group archive? In a webpage or jou= rnal?
 
= I'm working on getting everything moved to my webpage, but at the moment, m= y stories are scattered across the Internet. :) I do, however, have them al= l tagged on Delicious:
 
 
Good luck with finding time to write! :)
 
Dawn
 

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.si= lmaril lionwritersguild .org
The Vanyar used to live in Tirion, but t= hen they left the city and settled near Taniquetil. I'd say they live in a = certain area of Valmar.
 
There is a tale, in H= ome perhaps? Or in the Silm, where Finw=EB goes to visit Ingw=EB, and that'= s when he meets Indis. Why don't you check there? That will give you an ide= a. there are maps too. Just google Aman and you'll get them.
&nb= sp;
CC


--- On Sat, 5/16/09, ellfine2000 wrote:

= From: ellfine2000
Subject: [SilmarillionW= ritersGuild] Questions about Valinor
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoog= roups.com
Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 12:38 AM

Does anyone know the name of the city of= the Vanyar? Is it Valmar or is that the city of the Valar? Also how far is= it from the city of the Vanyar to Tirion? How many days' ride on horseback= , do you guess?

Thanks!
Ellie


--0-1472010895-1242441126=:39322-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2684 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96611 invoked from network); 16 May 2009 02:46:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2009 02:46:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.119) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2009 02:46:52 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 92510 invoked by uid 60001); 16 May 2009 02:46:18 -0000 Message-ID: <256500.91375.qm@web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Mwqd928VM1m_XTClJFD3MxmbmcWdfYUqJA6Y5PdVBeFXScvfkVPMDlwZh_Y8HHFxKi1zOM4jhSJktE1AdsWRmA8WvAAhwv0NKphmuCZbw.LcCAGMJx0P9fmzwxziK0A3kXmPrU7QL_XDM5HP2V9q42EJ2N3y4WbKcBFt0eE5IH_e6jtq7Ah4fW_2CAqprdX1xdIDTviPr_jkH0F7U3m73qeW828TgTYfLGGoZ2RfkJDW.TnQ2UxNwcAU87XBsAeBfEC038TYNcW4W6Ze79IH4pNoiZMZQcfmeyRZIQ7ElZ6N7uxGOBHvvuCxfXd.NHz23_DiIorVUt9eDPd28zoQBLf5aM8- X-Received: from [72.19.143.245] by web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 May 2009 19:46:17 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.3.9 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 19:46:17 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-546855250-1242441977=:91375" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Questions about Valinor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=vwp-xVHqly_ffijaPC69AwzVhq6QDc9YoQh8WwaQgTnOXmy6K9uiM64 X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-546855250-1242441977=:91375 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can't make a guess as to how many days it would take, since I've no idea = how far it is from Tirion to Vanyar City, but iirc, you can go approx. 35-5= 0 miles/day on one horse, depending on how fast you make the horse go, how = many hours you ride, etc. And how much padding the elf has on the behind! ;= ) T=E1rion --- On Fri, 5/15/09, ellfine2000 wr= ote: Does anyone know the name of the city of the Vanyar? Is= it Valmar or is that the city of the Valar? Also how far is it from the ci= ty of the Vanyar to Tirion? How many days' ride on horseback, do you guess?= Thanks! Ellie --0-546855250-1242441977=:91375 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I can't make a guess as to how many days it w= ould take, since I've no idea how far it is from Tirion to Vanyar City, but= iirc, you can go approx. 35-50 miles/day on one horse, depending on how fa= st you make the horse go, how many hours you ride, etc. And how much paddin= g the elf has on the behind! ;)

T=E1rion


--- On Fri, = 5/15/09, ellfine2000 wrote:

=

Does anyone know the name of the city of the Vanyar? Is it Valm= ar or is that the city of the Valar? Also how far is it from the city of th= e Vanyar to Tirion? How many days' ride on horseback, do you guess?
Thanks!
Ellie


--0-546855250-1242441977=:91375-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2685 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4429 invoked from network); 17 May 2009 01:20:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2009 01:20:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.157) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2009 01:20:55 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 4so1368470yxp.30 for ; Sat, 16 May 2009 18:19:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.151.121.9 with SMTP id y9mr9285246ybm.125.1242523194250; Sat, 16 May 2009 18:19:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 20:19:54 -0500 Message-ID: <511ea890905161819n1fc01b64u7b761af9fcea268c@mail.gmail.com> To: LOTR-Research@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: Re: [LOTR-Research] Questions about Valinor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=EQYcfv1V_uckZJNgn3XEpSEayxoNiYS504mr-1xozQdj1v9QBh4 X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex When it comes to geography, I'm a huge fan of the work that Karen Wynn Fonstad put into her book 'The Atlas of Middle-earth'. Per her section on Valinor (pg. 6), she says: "Distances not only were not given, they were meaningless. The Valar, being spirits, must have had the power to pass any distance at any time. Instead of meticulously calculating leagues, Tolkien left impressions of Valinor with a few swift strokes..." Later in the same section it mentions this regarding the dwellings of the Elves in Valinor: "The other cities mentioned were all those of the Elves. Tirion (as renamed from the original Kor) was built atop the hill of Tuna in the midst of the Calacirya. Crystal stairs climbed to the great gate. Fair houses were raised within by the Noldor and the Vanyar. Higher than all stood the tower Mindon Eldalieva, whose lantern could be seen far out to sea. Before the tower lay the House of Finwe and the Great Square where Feanor and his sons swore their terrible oath. "The Teleri, being drawn by the light streaming through the pass, abandoned Eressea. They built Alqualonde, the fair Haven of the Swans, north of the pass, desiring still to see the bring stars of Varda. The city was walled, and the entrance to its harbor was an arch of living stone. Eressea was deserted until the end of the First Age, when Elves fleeing Beleriand built the haven of Avalonne on the south shore." Now, in terms of the whole 'where did the Vanyar go when they left Tirion' question, it doesn't seem as if the Vanyar left a forwarding address. (Probably wise, or they'd have gotten mixed up with the whole Noldor/Teleri ship-dispute-and-unnecessary-kinslayery later on.) What we do have from the Silmarillion is on pages 61-62: "As the ages passed the Vanyar grew to love the land of the Valar and the full light of the Trees, and they forsook the city of Tirion upon Tuna, and dwelt thereafter upon the mountain of Manwe, or about the plains and woods of Valinor..." and also, "...but Ingwe was ever held the High King of all the Elves. He abode thereafter at the feet of Manwe upon Taniquetil." Going back to Fonstad's book, it is also said in the Valinor section: "In the midst of the plain of Valinor was Valmar of Many Bells -- the chief, and possibly the only, city of the Valar." My best guess is, if one is a Vanya, and one lives in a city, they live in Valmar. Otherwise, if you're a Vanya, you're living on the side of a mountain or in a forest or a plain without the same city-like boundaries that your Telerin and Noldorin cousins are used to. -Zhie ps -- This is the first time I have heard use of the fanon city-name Vanyamar. I'd end up getting confused, with Vinyamar hanging around in canon-land, but then, other people have told me they don't know how I keep all the Fin-something Elves straight, so, whatever works, right? ;) On 5/15/09, ellfine2000 wrote: > Does anyone know the name of the city of the Vanyar? Is it Valmar or is that > the city of the Valar? Also how far is it from the city of the Vanyar to > Tirion? How many days' ride on horseback, do you guess? > > Thanks! > Ellie > > -- Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're always after me purple bunnies... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2686 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25188 invoked from network); 17 May 2009 19:14:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2009 19:14:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2009 19:14:20 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2009 19:13:54 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.14] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2009 19:13:54 -0000 Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 19:13:54 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <511ea890905161819n1fc01b64u7b761af9fcea268c@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: to those who answered the questions about valinor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=FRz-pB9AQLaiAjqF_1tiy1Ge_xqCOTJhijfj0TGeQT6Xz0wExds X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Thank you all very much! You helped me figure out what I needed to get arou= nd the hump in my story. Finally, yay! hugs, Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2687 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 900 invoked from network); 19 May 2009 02:34:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2009 02:34:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2009 02:34:09 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 53951 invoked by uid 60001); 19 May 2009 02:34:09 -0000 Message-ID: <930999.53175.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: lhc2u3IVM1my2wn8KrZelMCoGEVqmexX3QUSMrPFc9B2XFSFMQwiAi9eql0Y_6QstrdKMPD2ulhx708Sz5n47s4ZvZHm7_CvHnOdjUPR0.Y9Mnb7VEKBvhZwbdW8MWDzizKy7QyzHUXNccEIG8sOr7PLLMVK5sJMoKN4gJpqvapg8ijTEoF5NG7A5FwQMuu.cdslb2ke2eAIOvS1NByvVdMXM0nScJi5BSW3egSQ0imwpw3fH63w2Jw1nBNRPFaSAnBORXlQzxpTI4lPSoHAkbpIdHU4C4ikscheM5YqDUEMvtOTK1R2u583Zqcu0lUO4Dd_HKVkrJV.N0GOVkNLYjFyH5ETiyD0sJXgFOzCJvxETsJNiGrEzxEl7NrpJoC_ X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 May 2009 19:34:08 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.2.20 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:34:08 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com, SoA , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, ElvenLords@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1004735036-1242700448=:53175" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Fw: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] ~*~June's theme: Love~*~ X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=hpHrkIxupoCug2W-VuTnwZ4IbFBlQ9ILjh80XntouSk0fEEk1Q X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1004735036-1242700448=:53175 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Our LJ Site is - http://community. livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c/ Yahoo group = address - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/ see rules= and guidelines at either site From: alassante7 Su= bject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] ~*~June's theme: Love~*~ To: A_Long_Expect= ed_Contest@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 10:13 PM = Then for a season they wander= ed together in the glades of Lothl=F3rien, until it was time for him to dep= art. And on the evening of Midsummer Aragorn, Arathorn's son, and Arwen dau= ghter of Elrond went to the fair hill, Cerin Amroth, in the midst of the la= nd, and they walked unshod on the undying grass with elanor and niphredil a= bout their feet And there upon that hill they looked east to the Shadow and= west to the Twilight, and they plighted their troth and were glad. 'And A= rwen said: "Dark is the Shadow, and yet my heart rejoices; for you, Estel, = shall be among the great whose valour will destroy it." ' But Aragorn answ= ered: "Alas! I cannot foresee it, and how lit may come to pass is hidden fr= om me. Yet with your hope I will hope. And the Shadow I utterly reject. But= neither, lady, is the Twilight for me; for I am mortal, and if you will cl= eave to me, Evenstar, then the Twilight you must also renounce." 'And she = stood then as still as a white tree, looking into the West, and at last she= said: "I will cleave to you, D=FAnadan, and turn from the Twilight. Yet th= ere lies the land of my people and the long home of all my kin." She loved = her father dearly. Return of the King Appendix A Tale of Aragorn and Arwen= J R R Tolkien As promised I'm giving you June's theme early. In honor of= June brides everywhere, I thought a great theme for June would be Love. It= doesn't have to be romantic love however - it can be the love of friends o= r family. Itdoes not have to be based on documented events or characters = in thebooks and the words in the theme do not have to be included in thefic= tion. Each writer has until June 30 to turn in the story to alikatskorner@ = rockfan.com.=A0Please include the proper formatting for LJ. If you have any= questions about how to do that, feel free to ask. =A0Good luck and happy= writing! Recent Act= ivity Visi= t Your Group = Give Back Yahoo! for Good Get inspired = by a good cause. = Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. = Yahoo! Group= s Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. = . = --0-1004735036-1242700448=:53175 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Our LJ Site is - http://community. livejourna= l. com/a_l_e_ c/
Yahoo group address - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_= Long_Expected_Contest/

see rules and guidelines at either site

From: alassante7 Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] ~*~June's theme: Love~*~
To: A_L= ong_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 10:13 P= M

=

Then for a season the= y wandered together in the glades of Lothl=F3rien, until it was time for hi= m to depart. And on the evening of Midsummer Aragorn, Arathorn's son, and A= rwen daughter of Elrond went to the fair hill, Cerin Amroth, in the midst o= f the land, and they walked unshod on the undying grass with elanor and nip= hredil about their feet And there upon that hill they looked east to the Sh= adow and west to the Twilight, and they plighted their troth and were glad.=

<= span style=3D"color: black;" lang=3D"EN-GB">'And Ar= wen said: "Dark is the Shadow, and yet my heart rejoices; for you, Estel, s= hall be among the great whose valour will destroy it."

' But Aragorn answered: "Al= as! I cannot foresee it, and how lit may come to pass is hidden from me. Ye= t with your hope I will hope. And the Shadow I utterly reject. But neither,= lady, is the Twilight for me; for I am mortal, and if you will cleave to m= e, Evenstar, then the Twilight you must also renounce."

'And= she stood then as still as a white tree, looking into the West, and at las= t she said: "I will cleave to you, D=FAnadan, and turn from the Twilight. Y= et there lies the land of my people and the long home of all my kin." She l= oved her father dearly.

Return of the King Appendix A
Tale of Aragor= n and Arwen
<= font color=3D"#0000ff">J R R Tolkien


As promised I'm giving you= June's theme early. In honor of June brides everywhere, I thought a great = theme for June would be Love. It does= n't have to be romantic love however - it can be the love of friends or fam= ily.

Itdoes not have to be b= ased on documented events or characters in thebooks and the words in the th= eme do not have to be included in thefiction. Each writer has until June 30 to turn in the story to <= a rel=3D"nofollow">alikatskorner@ rockfan.com. Please include the proper formatting for LJ. If you have any qu= estions about how to do that, feel free to ask.


 = ;

Good luck and happ= y writing!

=
Recent Activity
= Visit You= r Group
=
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=
.

This announcement is being passed along on behal= f of the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards.
= =C2=A0
------

Greetings from MEFA-l= and! As you may have heard, the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards will shortly= begin accepting nominations for the 2009 awards. Nominations will begin on= May 22, and we would love to have you put forward your favorite drabbles, = stories, poetry, essays, and any other variation of fanfic you have encount= ered.




WHO CAN NOMINATE?

Any member of the MEFAwa= rds Yahoo group may nominate up to twenty pieces. (Self-nominations are all= owed.) If you are not already a member, please go ahead and join there so w= e can get you set up with an account at our awards website. Once you join t= he Yahoo group and we make sure that you don't already have another acc= ount on our site, you will be sent a password to use at our website.
If you are already a member but have lost your password, please try to ha= ve the site send it to you automatically, using the "Forgotten passwor= d?" link on our homepage. You can also email mefasupport@mefawards.net for ass= istance. Please do not try to create a second account.




= WHAT CAN BE NOMINATED?

We accept pretty much every variety of fanfic= you can imagine. Our eligibility requirements are fairly straightforward:<= br>
1. The piece has to be fanfic. And it has to be based on Tolkien'= ;s world. (Or a crossover between Tolkien and some other universe.)
2. The piece has to be available at an eligible URL. This basically means = you don't have to join a site to view the piece, and (if the piece is s= pread across more than one page) there's a way to get to the subsequent= pages from a single URL.

3. This must be the first time the piece = has been nominated. We do allow pieces that competed as WIPs to compete aga= in when they're finished, but other than that - it's one bite at th= e apple for each story, each essay, each whatever. Check out our full list = of pieces nominated in previous years: http://www.mefawards.net/mefa-archive
4. The piece has to meet our rating requirements. (See http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/index.php?page=3DFAQratingsguide= ) When in doubt, we have a ratings panel that can evaluate an author= 9;s story and decide whether the story in question is ineligible on this co= unt. Eligible stories must meet our ratings guidelines for General, Teen, o= r Mature.

There are of course special cases. If you are in doubt, e= mail mefasup= port@mefawards.net before nominating and I will tell you if the piece i= s eligible.



WHEN CAN YOU NOMINATE?

Nominations will = run May 22 through the end of June. All MEFA days begin based on GMT, so no= minations will begin at 12:01 AM GMT on May 22 and end at 11:59 PM GMT on J= une 30.

If your story is nominated, you will have until July 7 to c= ompletely finish up the nomination process. This involves emailing your lia= ison to say you want to compete; filling out a fairly detailed form on our = website; and working with your liaison to resolve any problems caught by yo= ur liaison. If you do not finish this process by July 7, your

Pleas= e note - the nomination period is one week shorter this year than in previo= us years. So get those nominations in early.



WHERE CAN YOU N= OMINATE?

Nominations are submitted via our website, http://www.mefawards.net/M= EFA2009/ . When you log in you will see links to nominate a story by so= meone other than yourself or to self-nominate your own story. (If you don&#= 39;t see these links it means you aren't allowed to nominate, which usu= ally means you're not a member of the MEFAwards group. If you think thi= s is an error, please email me at mefasupport@mefawards.net)

You can also b= rowse other peoples' nominations by clicking the "Browse All Nomin= ated Stories," and you may start reviewing them as soon as they are no= minated. There's one piece of advice I hear over and over from veteran = MEFA participants: it really is never too early to get started, and the les= s stressful MEFA voting will be. Both members of MEFAwards and non-members = who have their stories nominated can vote.

A quick caveat - until M= ay 22, our site will be in "testing" mode. If you log in before t= hen, you will be able to nominate stories or enter reviews but they will be= erased when the site goes "live" on May 22. You'll know we&#= 39;re accepting real nominations when the pink bar at the top of the page l= abelled "TEST" disappears.



Looking forward to eve= ryone's nominations in a few days! I'm excited, and hope you are, t= o.

Marta
(MEFA Admin.)



<= /div>
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
<= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org">http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org
--0016364ed9ae98836f046a592310-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2689 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70018 invoked from network); 23 May 2009 02:03:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2009 02:03:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.69) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2009 02:03:45 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.39] (helo=elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1M7gaP-0005ty-P7; Fri, 22 May 2009 22:03:45 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Fri, 22 May 2009 22:03:45 -0400 Message-ID: <26070303.1243044225716.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 22:03:45 -0400 (EDT) To: Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com Cc: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Silmfics@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7906ac68c523cefb3e56e49d17bfd3c3c6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: More SSP: Two New Silmfics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=U30RX46RphquBqdhHjb0lkPP7hZOqBveDKtR7J1g88XcIOjSjB9p X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Man, the plotbunnies are proving absolutely vicious! With a long weekend coming up here in the US, I thought some of you might appreciate some new Silmarillion-based stories to read. Maglor brings us a depressing, angsty one: "The Dark Beneath the Stars." Finrod, on the other hand, decided to drop off a light, frothy updated version of the Athrabeth: "Flights of Fancy." They're both up at the ff.net (where I'm Ithilwen of Himring), my fanfiction LiveJournal (http://ithilwen-fics.livejournal.com), my Dreamwidth fanfiction journal (http://ithilwen-fics.dreamwidth.org), and the Silmarillion Writers' Guild Archive (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive). I hope you enjoy them! Ithilwen From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2690 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19600 invoked from network); 23 May 2009 08:12:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2009 08:12:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2009 08:12:36 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2009 08:11:48 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2009 08:11:48 -0000 Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 08:11:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Mod Post: Bugs Fixed! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=S57lGBDZx30HAcIK6EAz-UZdTo0pH7wffpvDS-B1iGv9zZJbsIyv-h1eYdwik7sbmPldNQ X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Oh yay! This is great news! (Yes, I realize I'm behind on stuff). I bet yo= u're happy to be having a full night's sleep again ((((hugs))). What a mess= upgrades can be! Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com= , Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, all, > > I have good news= to report: The numerous bugs that we experienced after > Bluehost's upgrad= e to our systems have been *fixed*! And we didn't have to > reinstall the a= rchive either. :) > > Here is a recap of the bugs we found; *all* of these = should be fixed. If you > continue to experience these or any other problem= s, please let us know by > either contacting Rhapsody or me off-list, posti= ng to this list, or sending > an email to moderator AT silmarillionwritersg= uild DOT org. > > -Leaving a review redirected to a blank page. > > -Postin= g a new story redirected to a blank page. > > -Updated stories were not add= ed to the Most Recent list. > > -Review notifications were not being sent. = > > -Registering as a new member redirected to a blank page. > > Again, non= e of these problems should continue. If they do, please let us > know. > > = Thank you again to all of you who reported your experiences and tried > dif= ferent things so that we could narrow down the problem. And thanks to * > e= veryone* for your patience with us over the last few days while we got > th= ings figured out. > > Best regards, > > Dawn, who is looking forward to a f= ull night's sleep now ;) > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhave= ns.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2691 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61516 invoked from network); 23 May 2009 08:16:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2009 08:16:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2009 08:16:25 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2009 08:16:25 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2009 08:16:25 -0000 Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 08:16:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Why is March always the month for B2MeM? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=y73PgopAujXIxjJgVQRYUQW0gpztzaSpnKDIjSxoWjlIabNcX2fax2UMXZS1HiPdB4s2FQ X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel I had an absolute blast with B2MeM and look forward to doing it again next= march. I also had a question, is Akallabeth in August a yearly thing, or w= as that a "one time only" thing? If it is an annual thing I would love to g= et NWRG teamed up for that for sure. Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGu= ild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > That's exa= ctly right, Marta. We didn't invent B2MeM at the SWG; we jumped on > the ba= ndwagon in 2006 with a lot of other groups. We remain--to the best of > my = knowledge--the only fanfic-centric group that continues the "holiday" > eac= h year, so that's probably why it has come to be associated with us, > thou= gh other groups joined us this year, and I hope they will for subequent > y= ears as well, and B2MeM will become a *fandom* (versus *Silmdom*) event > o= nce more. > > I don't know the exact origins of B2MeM, but the year that we= started > participating (2006), it was being promoted to fans and groups a= s a way to > keep a ever-quieter fandom active after the hype had died down= from the > movies. Of course, the movies aren't as relevant here, since we= focus on *The > Silmarillion* and not LotR, but people have always respond= ed positively to > having an event each year, and it's been a fun way to no= t only show off the > talents of the writers and artists that we have in th= e SWG but also to > connect to the broader Tolkien fandom, so we hope to co= ntinue it for some > years to come. > > Silmdevil, we have had events in th= e past outside of B2MeM that fall outside > of March. Seven in '07 was a mo= nth dedicated to the Feanorians in July '07, > and we had a writing contest= in honor of the 30th anniversary of the > publication of *The Silmarillion= * in September '07 (that we hoped to repeat > in '08, but the mods were all= too swamped with real-life obligations ... I > still have my fingers cross= ed for a repeat in '09, though! :) When one of us > gets a wild idea for an= event (and I have a couple in the back of my mind > right now ...), we gen= erally aim well away from March! :) > > All the best, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oO= o~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2692 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42785 invoked from network); 23 May 2009 14:28:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2009 14:28:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f168.google.com) (209.85.219.168) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2009 14:28:26 -0000 X-Received: by ewy12 with SMTP id 12so2743979ewy.11 for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 07:27:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.26.70 with SMTP id b48mr985394wea.141.1243088846367; Sat, 23 May 2009 07:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 10:27:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367b6ad41cae59046a952d6c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August (was: Why is March always the month for B2MeM?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Fcpjj2jeTOPnbwMAwQNK6YRxYM0El-bOTBuzXUqggblDL92Bl0dZ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016367b6ad41cae59046a952d6c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 4:16 AM, roisin_elendiel wrote: > I also had a question, is Akallabeth in August a yearly > thing, or was that a "one time only" thing? If it is an annual thing I > would love to get NWRG teamed up for that for sure. Roisin, I replied off-list as well, but I wanted also to reply publicly since there are other Second Agers in our midst. :) Yes, Akallabeth in August is done annually. Generally, we encourage people to reread the Akallabeth and try writing a story based on it. This year, though, my comods and I are considering doing an event that's more involved. We have a lot of talented Second Age authors in this group, and we'd like to do more to recognize their work. So ... those of you who write Second Age or have always wanted to try, stay tuned; I'll have more details, hopefully, before the week is out. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016367b6ad41cae59046a952d6c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 4:16 AM, roisin_elendiel <shivna1980@hotmail.com>= wrote:

> I also had a question, is Akallabeth in August a yearly=
> thing, or was that a "one time only" thing? If it is an= annual thing I
> would love to get NWRG teamed up for that for sure.=

Roisin, I replied off-list as well, but I wanted also to reply publ= icly since there are other Second Agers in our midst. :)

Yes, Akall= abeth in August is done annually. Generally, we encourage people to reread = the Akallabeth and try writing a story based on it. This year, though, my c= omods and I are considering doing an event that's more involved. We hav= e a lot of talented Second Age authors in this group, and we'd like to = do more to recognize their work.

So ... those of you who write Seco= nd Age or have always wanted to try, stay tuned; I'll have more details= , hopefully, before the week is out.

All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremast= er/
http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016367b6ad41cae59046a952d6c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2693 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15808 invoked from network); 23 May 2009 15:04:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2009 15:04:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yx-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.44.156) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2009 15:04:14 -0000 X-Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 3so1285779yxi.76 for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 08:03:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.80.4 with SMTP id d4mr2409441agb.62.1243090987833; Sat, 23 May 2009 08:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?192.168.1.100? (ool-457c028c.dyn.optonline.net [69.124.2.140]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 25sm2274711aga.57.2009.05.23.08.03.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 23 May 2009 08:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A18101F.8060505@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:02:55 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Akallabeth in August (was: Why is March always the month for B2MeM?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=0GdHTRgruFFkQAL35KD1jgdOWJtTpvr8lh4n-aiznrZlZYBxcSfcUw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva > So ... those of you who write Second Age or have always wanted to try, > stay tuned; I'll have more details, hopefully, before the week is out. > *glances down at ankle, suspiciously* The nuzgul are already salivating, srsly... Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2694 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60355 invoked from network); 23 May 2009 23:30:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2009 23:30:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2009 23:30:28 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2009 23:30:15 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2009 23:30:14 -0000 Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 23:30:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Akallabeth in August (was: Why is March always the month for B2MeM?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=6vYH7HU32JYdb1-ZR8Ig8D5EcJ37jmf79rjXSRGwavAX0NertIJO21VyZqhaqvoIbbOtTw X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Oh, I so agree Dawn. Thanks, I got your email. I couldn't agree more that = there are some really fabulous 2nd age authors in this group and it's been = a real treat to read the offerings. I, of course, would be ecstatic to see = a 2nd Age event. I'm eagerly looking forward to Akallabeth in August, or an= y other such events. B2MeM was so much fun, and I can't wait to do another = challenge. Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Fe= lagund wrote: > > On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 4:16 AM, roisi= n_elendiel shivna1980@...wrote: > > > I also had a question, is Akallabeth = in August a yearly > > thing, or was that a "one time only" thing? If it is= an annual thing I > > would love to get NWRG teamed up for that for sure. = > > Roisin, I replied off-list as well, but I wanted also to reply publicly= > since there are other Second Agers in our midst. :) > > Yes, Akallabeth = in August is done annually. Generally, we encourage people > to reread the = Akallabeth and try writing a story based on it. This year, > though, my com= ods and I are considering doing an event that's more involved. > We have a = lot of talented Second Age authors in this group, and we'd like to > do mor= e to recognize their work. > > So ... those of you who write Second Age or = have always wanted to try, stay > tuned; I'll have more details, hopefully,= before the week is out. > > All the best, > > Dawn > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn= Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2695 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 747 invoked from network); 27 May 2009 01:39:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2009 01:39:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.142) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2009 01:39:44 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx12 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45BBA104002 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 03:39:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (83-168-113-67.static.espol.com.pl [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 03:39:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 03:28:40 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <255613705.20090527032840@tlen.pl> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: "Arda Reconstructed" - review & author's answer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=xj-30tO8La4djK0TltRmWn2XWHXUeNwXVhtqBlxPRCrAqGFA7l4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Hi folks, you might be interested - a review of the book at Mythopeic Society: http://www.mythsoc.org/reviews/arda.reconstructed/ and Kane's answer to it: http://www.thehalloffire.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=159937&sid=1757e070328b2fbaf4de6d88e59d645f#159937 Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2696 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81622 invoked from network); 27 May 2009 20:44:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2009 20:44:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f225.google.com) (209.85.219.225) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2009 20:44:54 -0000 X-Received: by ewy25 with SMTP id 25so366870ewy.25 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 13:44:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.41.1 with SMTP id o1mr2048242ebo.63.1243457082183; Wed, 27 May 2009 13:44:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <255613705.20090527032840@tlen.pl> References: <255613705.20090527032840@tlen.pl> Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:44:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c11cead58e4046aeae929 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] "Arda Reconstructed" - review & author's answer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=6cQIIvL32AaNbT6kBtm8Bp5kvMpS0gvg9W13mU2_DIIHDuhpcqtK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174c11cead58e4046aeae929 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Sirielle! And, though you did not intend this, your post on thi= s was also the kick in the pants I needed to put the finishing touches on *= my* review of *Arda Reconstructed,* so thank you for that as well. :) I ag= ree with Fisher's review. Mostly. (How out of character would it be for me = to agree *entirely*? Many things I lack but not opinions. ;) In fact, my re= view--which I wrote before reading Fisher's or anyone else's aside from our= conversation on this list--makes a lot of the same points. The one point w= ith which I disagree with is this: "But if the changes and omissions Kane = describes do in fact constitute a purposeful reduction, then there is just = as much reduction of the *male*characters (and almost certainly more). For = Kane to call attention to only the female characters in this way =E2=80=94 = and to impute a motive to Christopher to actively reduce their presence in = the narrative =E2=80=94 strikes me as either disingenuous or careless." Si= nce I know most probably have not read *Arda Reconstructed,* I will provide= some background: One of the major points that Kane makes throughout his st= udy is that the published *Silmarillion*, in many places, reduced or entire= ly eliminated roles for and details about female characters. Kane tends to = place the blame for this on Christopher Tolkien, with which I do not agree = (and which is discussed at length in my review, so I won't say anything mor= e now), but regardless of assigning "blame" or motives, it is a disquieting= trend nonetheless. Fisher's assertion that there are as many reductions i= nvolving male characters ignores two major points. First of all, there are = many, many more male characters in "The Silmarillion" (even before the edit= s that removed several female characters from the story entirely). When we = ran the "Strong Women" challenge as our very first challenge, I went throug= h the index of *The Silmarillion* and pulled out all the female characters.= There are about forty of them. Using the SWG archive character list (which= is all of the characters listed in the index, plus those that have been ad= ded from other works and by member request), there are about *200* male cha= racters. So, yes, if the roles of characters were cut, then male characters= are likely to be cut more than female characters. The true test, I think, = would be the * proportion* of each gender who had their roles cut, and I th= ink that this would without a doubt be the female characters. Kane finds ei= ght, without including the daughters of Indis, Nellas, and Andreth, who nev= er make it into the story at all but who, it appears, JRRT meant to include= . About forty male characters would have had to be reduced and twenty cut e= ntirely to keep in proportion with the women, and I don't think that is the= case. Secondly, Fisher ignores the historical context of reducing female = characters' roles in books. It is a trend that has occurred throughout much= of literature, often with the aim of presenting women in a secondary or su= bmissive role to the male characters. Reducing a male character's role is l= ikely to be viewed very differently from reducing a female character's, giv= en the subjection of women throughout history and literature. Reducing a fe= male character has a very different social/cultural meaning than reducing a= male character, especially when there are few female characters to begin w= ith. Pretending like there are no implications behind this is, in my opinio= n, "disingenuous or careless" in itself, not to mention insensitive. I hav= en't read Kane's reply yet. :) I'm interested to see what he has to say. A= lso, my review of *Arda Reconstructed* is posted here, for anyone who is in= terested: http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/2009/05/a-review-of-d= ouglas-charles-kanes-arda-reconstructed/ As always, comments are more than= welcome! I'm interested to know what those of you who have read the book t= hink of it. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_= loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174c11cead58e4046aeae929 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Sirielle!

And, though you did not intend this, your post = on this was also the kick in the pants I needed to put the finishing touche= s on my review of Arda Reconstructed, so thank you for that a= s well. :)

I agree with Fisher's review. Mostly. (How out of ch= aracter would it be for me to agree entirely? Many things I lack but= not opinions. ;) In fact, my review--which I wrote before reading Fisher&#= 39;s or anyone else's aside from our conversation on this list--makes a= lot of the same points. The one point with which I disagree with is this:<= br>
"But if the changes and omissions Kane describes do in fact co= nstitute a purposeful reduction, then there is just as much reduction of th= e male characters (and almost certainly more). For Kane to call at= tention to only the female characters in this way =E2=80=94 and to impute a= motive to Christopher to actively reduce their presence in the narrative = =E2=80=94 strikes me as either disingenuous or careless."

Since= I know most probably have not read Arda Reconstructed, I will provi= de some background: One of the major points that Kane makes throughout his = study is that the published Silmarillion, in many places, reduced or= entirely eliminated roles for and details about female characters. Kane te= nds to place the blame for this on Christopher Tolkien, with which I do not= agree (and which is discussed at length in my review, so I won't say a= nything more now), but regardless of assigning "blame" or motives= , it is a disquieting trend nonetheless.

Fisher's assertion tha= t there are as many reductions involving male characters ignores two major = points. First of all, there are many, many more male characters in "Th= e Silmarillion" (even before the edits that removed several female cha= racters from the story entirely). When we ran the "Strong Women" = challenge as our very first challenge, I went through the index of The S= ilmarillion and pulled out all the female characters. There are about f= orty of them. Using the SWG archive character list (which is all of the cha= racters listed in the index, plus those that have been added from other wor= ks and by member request), there are about 200 male characters. So, = yes, if the roles of characters were cut, then male characters are likely t= o be cut more than female characters. The true test, I think, would be the = proportion of each gender who had their roles cut, and I think that = this would without a doubt be the female characters. Kane finds eight, with= out including the daughters of Indis, Nellas, and Andreth, who never make i= t into the story at all but who, it appears, JRRT meant to include. About f= orty male characters would have had to be reduced and twenty cut entirely t= o keep in proportion with the women, and I don't think that is the case= .

Secondly, Fisher ignores the historical context of reducing femal= e characters' roles in books. It is a trend that has occurred throughou= t much of literature, often with the aim of presenting women in a secondary= or submissive role to the male characters. Reducing a male character's= role is likely to be viewed very differently from reducing a female charac= ter's, given the subjection of women throughout history and literature.= Reducing a female character has a very different social/cultural meaning t= han reducing a male character, especially when there are few female charact= ers to begin with. Pretending like there are no implications behind this is= , in my opinion, "disingenuous or careless" in itself, not to men= tion insensitive.

I haven't read Kane's reply yet. :) I'= ;m interested to see what he has to say.

Also, my review of Arda = Reconstructed is posted here, for anyone who is interested:

http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorem= aster/2009/05/a-review-of-douglas-charles-kanes-arda-reconstructed/
=
As always, comments are more than welcome! I'm interested to know = what those of you who have read the book think of it.

Dawn

--=
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org
--0015174c11cead58e4046aeae929-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2697 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71268 invoked from network); 29 May 2009 04:05:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2009 04:05:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2009 04:05:16 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2009 04:05:14 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2009 04:05:14 -0000 Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 04:05:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=2XBphCdKAII7fHTXCRlID_98mv7SMmUBWqwannyR2KtBv_q6OHqVSntQ7-TFahCaZ1FVDg X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel I still haven't gotten this book yet, but it sure sounds like something I = would enjoy. I'll have to look into it. I've enjoyed everyone's imput on it= for sure. Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heart= ofoshun@... wrote: > > > > > CT's deletions render the characters less comp= lex and more easily > categorized in the good-evil dichomtomy that is stere= otypical of fantasy > literature. I have always loved about the Silm that, = in many places, it defies this > tidy dualism; it seems that the final vers= ion that JRRT had written was even > more so. A lot of the cuts concerning = the Feanorians, Melkor, and > Ungoliant makes those characters less sympath= etic or, at least, less complex. Some > of the edits concerning the female = characters fit this pattern as well. > > > I have noted that, of course. Re= ally frustrating, given my bent on those > particular subjects. > > I suspe= ct, although I cannot prove it, that Galadriel got less cuts, > because Tol= kien was still planning major additions to her character when he > died. I = would love to hear CT's defenses of some of the cuts. Often the ones he > g= ives in footnotes are less than compelling to say the least. > > Still have= not ordered the book. Really have to do it today. > **************An Excel= lent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.at= wola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621499x1201450105/aol?redir\ =3Dhttp://www.= freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=3D668072&hmpgID=3D62&bcd\ =3DApr > = ilExcScore428NO62) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2698 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 139 invoked from network); 29 May 2009 18:06:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2009 18:06:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.69) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2009 18:06:44 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.40] (helo=elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MA6Tc-0006bM-MK for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 29 May 2009 14:06:44 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Fri, 29 May 2009 14:06:44 -0400 Message-ID: <9761298.1243620404658.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:06:44 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79371a29c5ffd6f4945834ac056e04e22d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=ZWrKHSpLx4xdMGZviJOX1Z3bjzGwWJUtzfDy8a-Y8qfzGkHnEe3P X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 It's a fun book, but very much a reference work. Light bedtime reading, it's definitely not! Ithilwen -----Original Message----- >From: roisin_elendiel >Sent: May 28, 2009 11:05 PM >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Arda Reconstructed" by Douglas Charles K... > > >I still haven't gotten this book yet, but it sure sounds like something >I would enjoy. I'll have to look into it. I've enjoyed everyone's imput >on it for sure. > >Roisin > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2699 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68181 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2009 11:21:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2009 11:21:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n41b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.155) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2009 11:21:21 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2009 11:21:11 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2009 11:21:11 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 11:21:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Just Testing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=VqsU8L7-tVLxCzXd_t3lh6M_g3jah_uAOP8PbmKJCxZTf2CKd76c6NRhPfBG_RjENnxAZg X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Hi, I'm just checking to see if there's an issue with my yahoo account. Ya= hoo doesn't want to seem to post up any of my replies, so I'm just seeing w= hat will happen if I try to post a topic....If yahoo goes all Exorcist, I'm= sorry! Roisin From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2700 Return-Path: X-Sender: nav_joyi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77907 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2009 11:25:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2009 11:25:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n41b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.155) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2009 11:25:57 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2009 11:25:27 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2009 11:25:27 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 11:25:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "nav" Subject: Re: Just Testing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=SP9pJkjw5m8LP4_pVlP18mTOIf5a0eAR3p1IkKRp9gjCLcI X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "roisin_elendiel" Hope t= here isn't an exorcism required! jdav. wrote: > > > Hi, I= 'm just checking to see if there's an issue with my yahoo account. > Yahoo = doesn't want to seem to post up any of my replies, so I'm just > seeing wha= t will happen if I try to post a topic....If yahoo goes all > Exorcist, I'm= sorry! > > Roisin > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2701 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37038 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2009 18:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2009 18:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2009 18:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2009 18:52:13 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2009 18:52:13 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:52:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Just Testing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=T8x5MutJI4HTcSGwaoNCHmhE_reNLORLgQ3a4r0i1dlXnFoCb-qq5bugp_01AyCM5B_Exw X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel I got my holy water handy just in case. ;-) So far it looks like a yahoo h= iccup. Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "roisin_e= lendiel" wrote: > > > Hi, I'm just checking to see if ther= e's an issue with my yahoo account. > Yahoo doesn't want to seem to post up= any of my replies, so I'm just > seeing what will happen if I try to post = a topic....If yahoo goes all > Exorcist, I'm sorry! > > Roisin > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2702 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78511 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2009 01:41:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2009 01:41:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ey-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.78.26) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2009 01:41:02 -0000 X-Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 22so645261eye.13 for ; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:40:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.18.18 with SMTP id 18mr4846994ebr.11.1243906838475; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:40:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c0f243db2da046b53a134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: June 2009 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=aZCGiLJbvZZ7W2K_JBiJg0BqRFevvJqIRHrhtlmu1d9_6ezm4WJr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174c0f243db2da046b53a134 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, I have posted the June newsletter here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php In this month's news, we have posted the announcement for this year's Akallabeth in August project. Writers and artists who like to play in the Second Age (or who would like to give it a try!) are encouraged to check out this project and contact us as soon as possible if you think you might want to participate. New in References this month is an excellent comparison of the *Quenta Silmarillion* and the Anglo-Saxon poem *The Wanderer* by Esteliel ( http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/silmarillion-and-wanderer.php). Finally, the results of last month's poll indicate that over 80% of the members of this mailing list prefer the list to remain open to public readership or have no preference, so the message archive will remain open to reading by the public indefinitely, unless we are given reason to consider this question again in the future. Of course, the highlight of the newsletter is the columns, and I don't think that this month will disappoint. Oshun's biography this month discusses Elros and his importance not only in *The Silmarillion* but as one of the chief characters who links *The Silmarillion* with LotR. Darth Fingon reveals what we can learn of Elven families and relationships from the word lists Tolkien made and also answers a question about Elven clothing. (Underwear, to be exact! Now doesn't that make you want to go and read "Linguistic Foolery"? ;) Finally, we introduce a new column this month: "A Sense of History" by my fellow References moderator Angelica. Every second month, Angelica will consider some of the historical influences on Tolkien's works. This month, to accompany Esteliel's new essay in References, "Beowulf in Beleriand" looks at what we know of Anglo-Saxon culture and how it might relate to the cultures of Arda. This month, we also have a new challenge, "Fanon Inverted," that asks you to pick a fanon loved or loathed, turn it on its head, and write a story to fit. And, of course, we are spotlighting an older challenge and have a new quote of the month as well. Finally, Around the World and Web covers news and announcements from groups outside of the SWG that we think might be of interest to our members. Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174c0f243db2da046b53a134 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I have posted the June newsletter here:

http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php

In this month's= news, we have posted the announcement for this year's Akallabeth in Au= gust project. Writers and artists who like to play in the Second Age (or wh= o would like to give it a try!) are encouraged to check out this project an= d contact us as soon as possible if you think you might want to participate= . New in References this month is an excellent comparison of the Quenta = Silmarillion and the Anglo-Saxon poem The Wanderer by Esteliel (= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/referen= ce/references/silmarillion-and-wanderer.php). Finally, the results of l= ast month's poll indicate that over 80% of the members of this mailing = list prefer the list to remain open to public readership or have no prefere= nce, so the message archive will remain open to reading by the public indef= initely, unless we are given reason to consider this question again in the = future.

Of course, the highlight of the newsletter is the columns, = and I don't think that this month will disappoint. Oshun's biograph= y this month discusses Elros and his importance not only in The Silmaril= lion but as one of the chief characters who links The Silmarillion with LotR. Darth Fingon reveals what we can learn of Elven families and = relationships from the word lists Tolkien made and also answers a question = about Elven clothing. (Underwear, to be exact! Now doesn't that make yo= u want to go and read "Linguistic Foolery"? ;) Finally, we introd= uce a new column this month: "A Sense of History" by my fellow Re= ferences moderator Angelica. Every second month, Angelica will consider som= e of the historical influences on Tolkien's works. This month, to accom= pany Esteliel's new essay in References, "Beowulf in Beleriand&quo= t; looks at what we know of Anglo-Saxon culture and how it might relate to = the cultures of Arda.

This month, we also have a new challenge, &qu= ot;Fanon Inverted," that asks you to pick a fanon loved or loathed, tu= rn it on its head, and write a story to fit. And, of course, we are spotlig= hting an older challenge and have a new quote of the month as well. Finally= , Around the World and Web covers news and announcements from groups outsid= e of the SWG that we think might be of interest to our members.

Enj= oy!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/= heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015174c0f243db2da046b53a134-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2703 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89971 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2009 05:44:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2009 05:44:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2009 05:44:14 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2009 05:44:01 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2009 05:44:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 05:44:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: June 2009 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=jwj7iecWg5q6tdqdU44vuK2UBtfFDwJGDjLmneOrNKRGXwfV62PjNylJpK7k13ZL-P5-UA X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Wow! This is fabulous! I haven't had a chance to read through it all in it= s entirety yet, but this is so great. Ohush, you did a wonderful job with y= our Elros essay, bravo. And Bravo to Darth Fingon too, wonderful job! Can't= wait to read the rest! I'm so immensely excited for Akallabeth in August!= It's like counting down to a holiday for me! Weeee! "bounces in anticipati= on". Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagu= nd wrote: > > Hi, all, > > I have posted the June newsle= tter here: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php = > > In this month's news, we have posted the announcement for this year's >= Akallabeth in August project. Writers and artists who like to play in the = > Second Age (or who would like to give it a try!) are encouraged to check = out > this project and contact us as soon as possible if you think you migh= t want > to participate. New in References this month is an excellent compa= rison of > the *Quenta Silmarillion* and the Anglo-Saxon poem *The Wanderer= * by > Esteliel ( > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/refer= ences/silmarillio\ n-and-wanderer.php). > Finally, the results of last mont= h's poll indicate that over 80% of the > members of this mailing list prefe= r the list to remain open to public > readership or have no preference, so = the message archive will remain open to > reading by the public indefinitel= y, unless we are given reason to consider > this question again in the futu= re. > > Of course, the highlight of the newsletter is the columns, and I do= n't think > that this month will disappoint. Oshun's biography this month d= iscusses > Elros and his importance not only in *The Silmarillion* but as o= ne of the > chief characters who links *The Silmarillion* with LotR. Darth = Fingon > reveals what we can learn of Elven families and relationships from= the word > lists Tolkien made and also answers a question about Elven clot= hing. > (Underwear, to be exact! Now doesn't that make you want to go and r= ead > "Linguistic Foolery"? ;) Finally, we introduce a new column this mont= h: "A > Sense of History" by my fellow References moderator Angelica. Every= second > month, Angelica will consider some of the historical influences o= n Tolkien's > works. This month, to accompany Esteliel's new essay in Refer= ences, "Beowulf > in Beleriand" looks at what we know of Anglo-Saxon cultur= e and how it might > relate to the cultures of Arda. > > This month, we als= o have a new challenge, "Fanon Inverted," that asks you to > pick a fanon l= oved or loathed, turn it on its head, and write a story to > fit. And, of c= ourse, we are spotlighting an older challenge and have a new > quote of the= month as well. Finally, Around the World and Web covers news > and announc= ements from groups outside of the SWG that we think might be of > interest = to our members. > > Enjoy! > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http:/= /themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2704 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57366 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2009 12:45:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2009 12:45:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2009 12:45:02 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imo-m12.mail.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a251e81bf; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 08:43:45 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c16.63449d69 (48600) for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:46:56 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1243946816" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.139 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: June 2009 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=HK0tbfV9CperwteIQTULIC7ZW_lk0YWKByVPe4ncBbYu5JDU6Gqv X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1243946816 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Roisin! **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585042x1201462767/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) -------------------------------1243946816 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
Thanks, Roisin!

An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!<= /DIV> -------------------------------1243946816-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2705 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 77565 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2009 20:22:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2009 20:22:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2009 20:22:25 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1244060529; bh=o2THxYg5STwnL4GEMO0nunbh0DsIZuqR9+0mHrGzfXs=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=KxQRc4L2mWjzlwOUjpCBM9KIP+EAg5Ygg9u2IqePrRE/DxoiKJiEXxvzlBEakWrE+TZbizfugsMjiRVl3kM0WRWzEzw3jUuxCqQ2UOvnXJPZWKE/kaN7s+iLUUodoOEQ Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2009 20:22:09 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2009 20:22:08 -0000 X-Sender: samtyr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43564 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2009 20:08:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2009 20:08:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2009 20:08:11 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2009 18:07:11 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2009 18:06:11 -0000 Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:07:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "samtyr" Subject: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91466528; y=SEFCo1YsFylLZxyU2HnyRtdCjt37OHNo12J7B7Wg9VJT X-Yahoo-Profile: samtyr X-eGroups-Approved-By: tarion_anarore via web; 03 Jun 2009 20:22:08 -0000 I just wanted to say hello and give a quick introduction, though I think th= at several of you probably know me already from el J (typo deliberate, btw.= ) I started out in Tolkien by reading "Hobbit", then "LotR" and finally "S= ilmarillion." I am still trying to finish the "newer" books since the Silm = was first published since my copies tend to get 'lost'. Luckily, the local = library will be having a book sale next month so I can hopefully pick up go= od reading copies from there. I don't have a special favorite from the Sil= m, though my preferences has always been for the elves. :) I have written = a few Tolkien-based fics but they are usually set in late Third/ early Four= th Age. I am working on a new fic now (a present), which is much more based= in First/Second Age -- and I am hoping to find someone to help me smooth o= ut the more obvious glitches. Later! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2706 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24340 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2009 21:31:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2009 21:31:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.66) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2009 21:31:42 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.52] (helo=mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MBy3i-0005dl-07 for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:31:42 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:31:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1958777.1244064702006.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:31:41 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7990ac79c2afb9bf7053dc9260095264b9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=TY9RGdT11nZ4jKlH5kGhCW7VOiOtwlyxf-EUCuqgYJoHCwxKvTBw X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Welcome to SWG, Samtyr! I hope you'll like it here. There are quite a few people in the group who are good with Second Age stuff. That time period covers quite a lot of ground; it might help if (when you're ready for a critique) to say a bit more about exactly what your story's covering. A lot of people have certain areas they are especially knowledgeable about (such as the history of Numenor, or the convoluted history of Galadriel and Celeborn), and they may be more inclined to help you with your fic if they know it involves an aspect of First and Second Age history they know well. Ithilwen -----Original Message----- >From: samtyr >Sent: Jun 3, 2009 12:07 PM >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Saying Hello > >I just wanted to say hello and give a quick introduction, though I think that several of you probably know me already from el J (typo deliberate, btw.) > >I started out in Tolkien by reading "Hobbit", then "LotR" and finally "Silmarillion." I am still trying to finish the "newer" books since the Silm was first published since my copies tend to get 'lost'. Luckily, the local library will be having a book sale next month so I can hopefully pick up good reading copies from there. > >I don't have a special favorite from the Silm, though my preferences has always been for the elves. :) > >I have written a few Tolkien-based fics but they are usually set in late Third/ early Fourth Age. I am working on a new fic now (a present), which is much more based in First/Second Age -- and I am hoping to find someone to help me smooth out the more obvious glitches. > >Later! > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2707 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38571 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2009 22:31:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2009 22:31:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2009 22:31:00 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2009 22:30:48 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2009 22:30:48 -0000 Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:30:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=qATJSIhD3gAWl_rvvxLCnkr8SKWBnvjyPDt0_zXbX8WiPLjrT58ctkE6W1kchNh9UjT7hA X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Hi, welcome to SWG! I run a Numenorean research and writing group, NWRG, s= o if that's the area you're interested in, I'm more than happy to help. We = have an LJ community and a yahoo mailing list. Happy writing! Roisin --= - In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "samtyr" wrote:= > > I just wanted to say hello and give a quick introduction, though I thi= nk that several of you probably know me already from el J (typo deliberate,= btw.) > > I started out in Tolkien by reading "Hobbit", then "LotR" and fi= nally "Silmarillion." I am still trying to finish the "newer" books since t= he Silm was first published since my copies tend to get 'lost'. Luckily, th= e local library will be having a book sale next month so I can hopefully pi= ck up good reading copies from there. > > I don't have a special favorite f= rom the Silm, though my preferences has always been for the elves. :) > > I= have written a few Tolkien-based fics but they are usually set in late Thi= rd/ early Fourth Age. I am working on a new fic now (a present), which is m= uch more based in First/Second Age -- and I am hoping to find someone to he= lp me smooth out the more obvious glitches. > > Later! > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2708 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17742 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2009 13:46:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2009 13:46:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.96) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2009 13:46:41 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 74906 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2009 13:46:23 -0000 Message-ID: <321905.74429.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 6XFuZScVM1lRugapVAtU94.1MOkgNWGDyyd8XEh1MKAomiYYLp.BEnfncnZWE3YLgmBZsLSlb8JVjXpuNmXUxNd11rLO0ps8Mzq5ATTdbBz7EzvLnHgu4ZP6ZlL1A0ikzD.9gEOL5Luf04rirvI_rK3m79rs.J0niOm_AbbLItv.3MvvcDorg4ufcHbMKEmpS8srovKijM2WpDFeE_ysLYBQXW6h2nP7qpUqTeArHLT8CjfV46WOBMshVJOHpX978IZVezv6NaR4_Em3CeBWUqmioxw_C73Q6Q6uJ7gklfi4uhBJui_riw07WYOsBxC.M7xKe5nh5XdXUhoLR_XpoxggC..kHezcJasbdBZk X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 06:46:22 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.3.9 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 06:46:22 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , Silmfics@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, SoA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1473157506-1244123182=:74429" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: A_Long_Expected_Contest ~*~ June's Theme - Love ~*~ X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=gXOxCMPG5HV4ZNt5Eqyq3G-LCNb1SSkO188nj9-tiumwqKLPNw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1473157506-1244123182=:74429 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =A0 Then for a season they wandered together in the glades of Lothl=F3rien= , until it was time for him to depart. And on the evening of Midsummer Arag= orn, Arathorn's son, and Arwen daughter of Elrond went to the fair hill, Ce= rin Amroth, in the midst of the land, and they walked unshod on the undying= grass with elanor and niphredil about their feet And there upon that hill = they looked east to the Shadow and west to the Twilight, and they plighted = their troth and were glad. 'And Arwen said: "Dark is the Shadow, and yet m= y heart rejoices; for you, Estel, shall be among the great whose valour wil= l destroy it." ' But Aragorn answered: "Alas! I cannot foresee it, and how= lit may come to pass is hidden from me. Yet with your hope I will hope. An= d the Shadow I utterly reject. But neither, lady, is the Twilight for me; f= or I am mortal, and if you will cleave to me, Evenstar, then the Twilight y= ou must also renounce." 'And she stood then as still as a white tree, look= ing into the West, and at last she said: "I will cleave to you, D=FAnadan, = and turn from the Twilight. Yet there lies the land of my people and the lo= ng home of all my kin." She loved her father dearly. Return of the King Ap= pendix A Tale of Aragorn and Arwen J R R Tolkien As promised I'm giving y= ou June's theme early. In honor of June brides everywhere, I thought a grea= t theme for June would be Love. It doesn't have to be romantic love however= - it can be the love of friends or family. Itdoes not have to be based = on documented events or characters in thebooks and the words in the theme d= o not have to be included in thefiction. Each writer has until June 30 to t= urn in the story to alikatskorner@ rockfan.com.=A0Please include the proper= formatting for LJ. If you have any questions about how to do that, feel fr= ee to ask. VOTING FOR APRIL/MAY'S THEME - LAST WORDS - WILL START JUNE 4t= h PM. PLEASE READ ON OUR AND VOTE!!!! =A0 =A0 Good luck and happy writing!= =A0 Where can you find ALEC? - http://community. livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c= /=A0=A0and =A0http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/=A0 =A0= =A0 ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 J= RR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA= =B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- = --0-1473157506-1244123182=:74429 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

= Then for a season they wandered together in the glades of Lothl=F3rien, unt= il it was time for him to depart. And on the evening of Midsummer Aragorn, = Arathorn's son, and Arwen daughter of Elrond went to the fair hill, Cerin A= mroth, in the midst of the land, and they walked unshod on the undying gras= s with elanor and niphredil about their feet And there upon that hill they = looked east to the Shadow and west to the Twilight, and they plighted their= troth and were glad.

'And Arwen said: "Dark is the Shadow, and yet my heart rejoices; for = you, Estel, shall be among the great whose valour will destroy it."<= /SPAN>

' But Aragorn answer= ed: "Alas! I cannot foresee it, and how lit may come to pass is hidden from= me. Yet with your hope I will hope. And the Shadow I utterly reject. But n= either, lady, is the Twilight for me; for I am mortal, and if you will clea= ve to me, Evenstar, then the Twilight you must also renounce."

'A= nd she stood then as still as a white tree, looking into the West, and at l= ast she said: "I will cleave to you, D=FAnadan, and turn from the Twilight.= Yet there lies the land of my people and the long home of all my kin." She= loved her father dearly.

Return of the King Appendix A
Tale of Aragorn and Arwen<= /FONT>
J R R Tolkien


As promised I'm giving you June's theme early. In= honor of June brides everywhere, I thought a great theme for June would be= Love. It doesn't have to be romantic l= ove however - it can be the love of friends or family.

Itdoes not have to be based on documented events or chara= cters in thebooks and the words in the theme do not have to be included in = thefiction. Each writer has until June 30 to turn in the story to alikatskorner@ rockfan.com. Please include the proper f= ormatting for LJ. If you have any questions about how to do that, feel free= to ask.

VOTI= NG FOR APRIL/MAY'S THEME - LAST WORDS -

WILL START JUNE 4th PM.

PLEASE READ ON OUR = AND VOTE!!!!

 
 
Good luck and happy writing!
=  
 
=

 
~~**~~
I war= n you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
 = ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))  = -:=A6:-
=         = =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- =
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. <= B>=BA=B0
    -:=A6:-    ((=B8= =B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-

--0-1473157506-1244123182=:74429-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2709 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26671 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2009 13:47:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2009 13:47:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2009 13:47:16 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 7571 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2009 13:46:15 -0000 Message-ID: <235334.4091.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: KMReKDYVM1nr8BP_4fUH5_GAeIH6AV3P9Yv5sxL31JaKbgnGhdx8nAc2Ylm1mYe5YC9Joj6VduHmMqW5CAiJM_ahAxbLi1I6J8w.SJqFfkrCqlipUr1wPIOBgG.f1qWcCsMpydiG056e7HCMIoWdKxRQn.KgGyLkmsbKY8BQ1AmDBy9b0iyWy8Xk9LbEMXERrZOqkbKODcYFbWWBtivhae_fcOX31x0xKFsn.yGTmhP1cxFi0EnHSLZaYaaJiflq32nuluRLOD_5OQXNJ3OmbChetUAsy._OgP7vXo7qEUVo.PvH05AtIGGWxf8D5eI80y8cJjRwukcMPAyH87ih6pcj677mD2AQy_cyENc_JSSDo2Qu5GI21D.cjhkfVqfJzDIpHHhp8bBgAJkT4pQoHoWFU9u7lDFgihbKwqQ- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 06:46:14 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.3.9 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.10 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 06:46:14 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , Silmfics@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, SoA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-412337496-1244123174=:4091" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: A_Long_Expected_Contest ~*~ June's Theme - Love ~*~ X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=Z_QUg8OZC5cWMOFOVTxLyf-lfwcHuQo8EG1lpemdxeyH0iOnNg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-412337496-1244123174=:4091 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =A0 Then for a season they wandered together in the glades of Lothl=F3rien= , until it was time for him to depart. And on the evening of Midsummer Arag= orn, Arathorn's son, and Arwen daughter of Elrond went to the fair hill, Ce= rin Amroth, in the midst of the land, and they walked unshod on the undying= grass with elanor and niphredil about their feet And there upon that hill = they looked east to the Shadow and west to the Twilight, and they plighted = their troth and were glad. 'And Arwen said: "Dark is the Shadow, and yet m= y heart rejoices; for you, Estel, shall be among the great whose valour wil= l destroy it." ' But Aragorn answered: "Alas! I cannot foresee it, and how= lit may come to pass is hidden from me. Yet with your hope I will hope. An= d the Shadow I utterly reject. But neither, lady, is the Twilight for me; f= or I am mortal, and if you will cleave to me, Evenstar, then the Twilight y= ou must also renounce." 'And she stood then as still as a white tree, look= ing into the West, and at last she said: "I will cleave to you, D=FAnadan, = and turn from the Twilight. Yet there lies the land of my people and the lo= ng home of all my kin." She loved her father dearly. Return of the King Ap= pendix A Tale of Aragorn and Arwen J R R Tolkien As promised I'm giving y= ou June's theme early. In honor of June brides everywhere, I thought a grea= t theme for June would be Love. It doesn't have to be romantic love however= - it can be the love of friends or family. Itdoes not have to be based = on documented events or characters in thebooks and the words in the theme d= o not have to be included in thefiction. Each writer has until June 30 to t= urn in the story to alikatskorner@ rockfan.com.=A0Please include the proper= formatting for LJ. If you have any questions about how to do that, feel fr= ee to ask. VOTING FOR APRIL/MAY'S THEME - LAST WORDS - WILL START JUNE 4t= h PM. PLEASE READ ON OUR AND VOTE!!!! =A0 =A0 Good luck and happy writing!= =A0 Where can you find ALEC? - http://community. livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c= /=A0=A0and =A0http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/=A0 =A0= =A0 ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 J= RR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA= =B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- = --0-412337496-1244123174=:4091 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

= Then for a season they wandered together in the glades of Lothl=F3rien, unt= il it was time for him to depart. And on the evening of Midsummer Aragorn, = Arathorn's son, and Arwen daughter of Elrond went to the fair hill, Cerin A= mroth, in the midst of the land, and they walked unshod on the undying gras= s with elanor and niphredil about their feet And there upon that hill they = looked east to the Shadow and west to the Twilight, and they plighted their= troth and were glad.

'And Arwen said: "Dark is the Shadow, and yet my heart rejoices; for = you, Estel, shall be among the great whose valour will destroy it."<= /SPAN>

' But Aragorn answer= ed: "Alas! I cannot foresee it, and how lit may come to pass is hidden from= me. Yet with your hope I will hope. And the Shadow I utterly reject. But n= either, lady, is the Twilight for me; for I am mortal, and if you will clea= ve to me, Evenstar, then the Twilight you must also renounce."

'A= nd she stood then as still as a white tree, looking into the West, and at l= ast she said: "I will cleave to you, D=FAnadan, and turn from the Twilight.= Yet there lies the land of my people and the long home of all my kin." She= loved her father dearly.

Return of the King Appendix A
Tale of Aragorn and Arwen<= /FONT>
J R R Tolkien


As promised I'm giving you June's theme early. In= honor of June brides everywhere, I thought a great theme for June would be= Love. It doesn't have to be romantic l= ove however - it can be the love of friends or family.

Itdoes not have to be based on documented events or chara= cters in thebooks and the words in the theme do not have to be included in = thefiction. Each writer has until June 30 to turn in the story to alikatskorner@ rockfan.com. Please include the proper f= ormatting for LJ. If you have any questions about how to do that, feel free= to ask.

VOTI= NG FOR APRIL/MAY'S THEME - LAST WORDS -

WILL START JUNE 4th PM.

PLEASE READ ON OUR = AND VOTE!!!!

 
 
Good luck and happy writing!
=  
 
=

 
~~**~~
I war= n you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
 = ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))  = -:=A6:-
=         = =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- =
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. <= B>=BA=B0
    -:=A6:-    ((=B8= =B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-

--0-412337496-1244123174=:4091-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2710 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6447 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2009 18:02:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2009 18:02:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2009 18:02:49 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1244138537; bh=2qGTXUkng1gOoa9TjfaAjQMitDK40/tbuV6fyhD0QR4=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=jHrSecQiykH97HPBpEjGeyRkoS1tcVJlJvKWYXDFglPyl2DcAE1KRpTspf/VOy1z7yti5+2pUWJ/dblTkW8X7XHUtl6u0QtyjtO8UUP9Zdu6xhiRmn8LSm+pPuEe2XWy Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 18:02:17 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 18:02:17 -0000 X-Sender: samtyr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31165 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2009 17:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2009 17:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n5-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.101) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2009 17:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.49] by n5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 17:57:51 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by t2.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 17:57:51 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 17:57:51 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:57:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1958777.1244064702006.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "samtyr" Subject: Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91466528; y=8is_aM4deDSp8ZRo-MOImP_ZINB3FjTTJmX3H3Q0rZsY X-Yahoo-Profile: samtyr X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 04 Jun 2009 18:02:16 -0000 Thank you! Right now I am trying to get as much detail down as I can before= asking questions, though I am sure I will be asking for help very soon. --= Sam --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Diana Nevins wrote: > > Welcome to SWG, Samtyr! I hope you'll like it here. > >= There are quite a few people in the group who are good with Second Age stu= ff. That time period covers quite a lot of ground; it might help if (when = you're ready for a critique) to say a bit more about exactly what your stor= y's covering. A lot of people have certain areas they are especially knowl= edgeable about (such as the history of Numenor, or the convoluted history o= f Galadriel and Celeborn), and they may be more inclined to help you with y= our fic if they know it involves an aspect of First and Second Age history = they know well. > > Ithilwen > >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Sayin= g Hello > > > >I just wanted to say hello and give a quick introduction, th= ough I think that several of you probably know me already from el J (typo d= eliberate, btw.) > > > >I started out in Tolkien by reading "Hobbit", then = "LotR" and finally "Silmarillion." I am still trying to finish the "newer" = books since the Silm was first published since my copies tend to get 'lost'= . Luckily, the local library will be having a book sale next month so I can= hopefully pick up good reading copies from there. > > > >I don't have a sp= ecial favorite from the Silm, though my preferences has always been for the= elves. :) > > > >I have written a few Tolkien-based fics but they are usua= lly set in late Third/ early Fourth Age. I am working on a new fic now (a p= resent), which is much more based in First/Second Age -- and I am hoping to= find someone to help me smooth out the more obvious glitches. > > > >Later= ! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2711 Return-Path: X-Sender: samtyr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65892 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2009 18:03:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2009 18:03:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2009 18:03:30 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 18:03:20 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 18:03:20 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:03:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "samtyr" Subject: Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91466528; y=XhoLOkGoIFyFqskCp_PuRAjSSC4BQv_a6OoQ0iGZw6Um X-Yahoo-Profile: samtyr Hi! Thank you for the welcome. Right now I am not writing Numenoreans but t= here is always the chance I will be be writing/referencing them in the futu= re. Do you have any links handy? --Sam --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yah= oogroups.com, "roisin_elendiel" wrote: > > Hi, welcome to = SWG! I run a Numenorean research and writing group, NWRG, so if that's the = area you're interested in, I'm more than happy to help. We have an LJ commu= nity and a yahoo mailing list. > > Happy writing! > > Roisin > --- In Sil= marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "samtyr" > wrote: > > > > = I just wanted to say hello and give a quick introduction, though I > think = that several of you probably know me already from el J (typo > deliberate, = btw.) > > > > I started out in Tolkien by reading "Hobbit", then "LotR" and= finally "Silmarillion." I am still trying to finish the "newer" books sinc= e the Silm was first published since my copies tend to get 'lost'. Luckily,= the local library will be having a book sale next month so I can hopefully= pick up good reading copies from there. > > > > I don't have a special fav= orite from the Silm, though my preferences has always been for the elves. := ) > > > > I have written a few Tolkien-based fics but they are usually set = in late Third/ early Fourth Age. I am working on a new fic now (a present),= which is much more based in First/Second Age -- and I am hoping to find so= meone to help me smooth out the more obvious glitches. > > > > Later! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2712 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77635 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2009 18:07:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2009 18:07:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f223.google.com) (209.85.219.223) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2009 18:07:54 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ew0-f223.google.com with SMTP id 23so1339512ewy.32 for ; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:07:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.109.19 with SMTP id h19mr113493ebc.45.1244138874325; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:07:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1958777.1244064702006.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:07:54 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1e596a7c9aa046b89a723 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xrpYHu7cD-0zaHcNX4Yw7yPd9U1JW36om2BGEt_3mn3bYwMzwP4I X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000e0cd1e596a7c9aa046b89a723 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Samtyr! I, too, would like to welcome you to the SWG. If you like the First and Second Ages, we've got lots of very knowledgeable and creative people here for both. :) We are actually working on putting together a Second Age event in August. If you think you might be interested in getting your feet wet by playing along, just drop me a line! :) (More info is available in this month's newsletter: >.) Regardless, we're glad to have you with us! May the muses smile upon you, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000e0cd1e596a7c9aa046b89a723 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Samtyr!
=C2=A0
I, too, would lik= e to welcome you to the SWG. If you like the First and Second Ages, we'= ve got lots of very knowledgeable and creative people here for both. :)
=C2=A0
We are actually working on putting together a Sec= ond Age event in August. If you think you might be interested in getting yo= ur feet wet by playing along, just drop me a line! :) (More info is availab= le in this month's newsletter: >.)
=C2=A0
Regardless, we= 're glad to have you with us! May the muses smile upon you,
= =C2=A0
Dawn
 --000e0cd1e596a7c9aa046b89a723-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2713 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97215 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2009 18:11:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2009 18:11:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2009 18:11:56 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 18:11:41 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 18:11:41 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:11:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Yqdd-5BjGUGFhPPlKfiubNDNnvclHTfdxN1-yHsSWvNy4Bj1dAAYcbk X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "samtyr" wrot= e: > > I just wanted to say hello and give a quick introduction, though I = > think that several of you probably know me already from el J (typo > del= iberate, btw.) Hi there! > I started out in Tolkien by reading "Hobbit",= then "LotR" and > finally "Silmarillion." I am still trying to finish the= "newer" > books since the Silm was first published since my copies tend t= o > get 'lost'. Luckily, the local library will be having a book sale > n= ext month so I can hopefully pick up good reading copies from > there. Ah= yes, that's a smart thing since they will also come with a hard cover. Per= haps a second hand bookstore might help too? > I don't have a special favo= rite from the Silm, though my > preferences has always been for the elves.= :) I think many of us do. :) > I have written a few Tolkien-based fics = but they are usually set in > late Third/ early Fourth Age. I am working on= a new fic now (a > present), which is much more based in First/Second Age= -- and I am > hoping to find someone to help me smooth out the more obvio= us > glitches. When you are at the archive, you can look at the author pr= ofiles if they are a beta reader or not. Perhaps that helps with your searc= h? I hope you have a fabulous time here, if you do come across glitches at= the site or have other questions, just contact us at the moderator adress!= We're happy to help. Suggestions are always welcome as well. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2714 Return-Path: X-Sender: samtyr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49455 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2009 21:04:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2009 21:04:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2009 21:04:04 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 21:03:57 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.14] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 21:03:57 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:03:56 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "samtyr" Subject: Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91466528; y=2uTNoDBdQrys26TiIZCouie4G9E3185bxdUZ-cr49ANa X-Yahoo-Profile: samtyr Hi! Thank you so much! I am sure that I will learn a lot here. I find mysel= f more comfortable in Third Age but right now my Muses are demanding less o= f that and more First/Second. [One in particular has been camped on my couc= h since March Madness and shows no signs of leaving since discovering 24 hr= . sports channels... *sigh*] Talk to you soon! --Sam --- In SilmarillionWri= tersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, = Samtyr! > > I, too, would like to welcome you to the SWG. If you like the = First and > Second Ages, we've got lots of very knowledgeable and creative = people here > for both. :) > > We are actually working on putting together= a Second Age event in August. If > you think you might be interested in ge= tting your feet wet by playing along, > just drop me a line! :) (More info = is available in this month's newsletter: > > >.) > > Regardless, we're glad to have you with us! May t= he muses smile upon you, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http:= //themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2715 Return-Path: X-Sender: samtyr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91816 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2009 21:18:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2009 21:18:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2009 21:18:59 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 21:18:12 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2009 21:18:12 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:18:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "samtyr" Subject: Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91466528; y=7XsH_xCwiOTmSVACUnrJwwQH6y7Ezr5nOfZ6R-HauA1U X-Yahoo-Profile: samtyr --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "sam= tyr" wrote: > > > > I just wanted to say hello and give a quick i= ntroduction, though I think that several of you probably know me already fr= om el J (typo > > deliberate, btw.) > > Hi there! > I started out in To= lkien by reading "Hobbit", then "LotR" and finally "Silmarillion." I am sti= ll trying to finish the "newer" books since the Silm was first published si= nce my copies tend to get 'lost'. Luckily, the local library will be having= a book sale next month so I can hopefully pick up good reading copies from= there. > > Ah yes, that's a smart thing since they will also come with a = hard cover. Perhaps a second hand bookstore might help too? --Sadly, there = is only one around here. > I don't have a special favorite from the Silm, = though my preferences has always been for the elves. :) > > I think many o= f us do. :) --Yes! :) > I have written a few Tolkien-based fics but they = are usually set in late Third/ early Fourth Age. I am working on a new fic = now (a present), which is much more based in First/Second Age -- and I am = hoping to find someone to help me smooth out the more obvious glitches. > = > When you are at the archive, you can look at the author profiles if they= are a beta reader or not. Perhaps that helps with your search? I hope you = have a fabulous time here, if you do come across glitches at the site or ha= ve other questions, just contact us at the moderator adress! We're happy to= help. Suggestions are always welcome as well. > --Ok, thank you! I will k= eep that in mind. :) > Rhapsody --Sam From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2716 Return-Path: X-Sender: nav_joyi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17134 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2009 10:28:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2009 10:28:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2009 10:28:20 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2009 10:27:56 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2009 10:27:56 -0000 Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 10:27:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "nav" Subject: Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=Wyd5EIZUfMfAY2VhTSJWbfsGiiukjPvBBo6s_JalIXoWedQ X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi Nice to see this message, I had my first smile of the day when I saw this! = Would the work under discussion be that famous Gil fic? jdav. --- In Sil= marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "samtyr" wrote: > > I j= ust wanted to say hello and give a quick introduction, though I think that = several of you probably know me already from el J (typo deliberate, btw.) >= > I started out in Tolkien by reading "Hobbit", then "LotR" and finally "= Silmarillion." I am still trying to finish the "newer" books since the Silm= was first published since my copies tend to get 'lost'. Luckily, the local= library will be having a book sale next month so I can hopefully pick up g= ood reading copies from there. > > I don't have a special favorite from th= e Silm, though my preferences has always been for the elves. :) > > I have= written a few Tolkien-based fics but they are usually set in late Third/ e= arly Fourth Age. I am working on a new fic now (a present), which is much m= ore based in First/Second Age -- and I am hoping to find someone to help me= smooth out the more obvious glitches. > > Later! > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2717 Return-Path: X-Sender: samtyr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10603 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2009 22:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2009 22:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.100) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2009 22:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.239] by n4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2009 22:39:04 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by t4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2009 22:39:04 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2009 22:39:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:39:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "samtyr" Subject: Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91466528; y=KfgqQ47NMcRuZ1iC8pbg86MBx-P6Nbe318c4hJxcFX2c X-Yahoo-Profile: samtyr Maybe... then again, maybe not... ;) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo= groups.com, "nav" wrote: > > Nice to see this message, I had= my first smile of the day when I saw this! > > Would the work under discu= ssion be that famous Gil fic? > > jdav. > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGui= ld@yahoogroups.com, "samtyr" wrote: > > > > I just wanted to say = hello and give a quick introduction, though I think that several of you pro= bably know me already from el J (typo deliberate, btw.) > > > > I started = out in Tolkien by reading "Hobbit", then "LotR" and finally "Silmarillion."= I am still trying to finish the "newer" books since the Silm was first pub= lished since my copies tend to get 'lost'. Luckily, the local library will = be having a book sale next month so I can hopefully pick up good reading co= pies from there. > > > > I don't have a special favorite from the Silm, th= ough my preferences has always been for the elves. :) > > > > I have writt= en a few Tolkien-based fics but they are usually set in late Third/ early F= ourth Age. I am working on a new fic now (a present), which is much more ba= sed in First/Second Age -- and I am hoping to find someone to help me smoot= h out the more obvious glitches. > > > > Later! > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2718 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31767 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2009 22:45:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2009 22:45:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2009 22:45:23 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2009 22:44:33 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2009 22:44:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:44:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9-4452238467-4962855382=:0" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=rU4KjrzKCiYpOYq8FrHoM1CmRvdiopkuak8LW4TyTraIDr7lKR-5xLHjHo1SoUHlNcEQ1Q X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel --9-4452238467-4962855382=:0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I sure do! Sorry it took me a couple days to get to you on this. here's th= e link. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/N-W-R-G/ We're still in the process of restoring the site, since the = other one was hacked into. But it's functioning again, yay! :-) Roisin -= -- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "samtyr" wrote= : > > Hi! Thank you for the welcome. Right now I am not writing Numenoreans= but there is always the chance I will be be writing/referencing them in th= e future. Do you have any links handy? > --Sam > > --- In SilmarillionWrite= rsGuild@yahoogroups.com, "roisin_elendiel" shivna1980@ wrote: > > > > Hi, w= elcome to SWG! I run a Numenorean research and writing group, NWRG, so if t= hat's the area you're interested in, I'm more than happy to help. We have a= n LJ community and a yahoo mailing list. > > > > Happy writing! > > > > Roi= sin > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "samtyr" = > > wrote: > > > > > > I just wanted to say hello and give a quick introdu= ction, though I > > think that several of you probably know me already from= el J (typo > > deliberate, btw.) > > > > > > I started out in Tolkien by r= eading "Hobbit", then "LotR" and finally "Silmarillion." I am still trying = to finish the "newer" books since the Silm was first published since my cop= ies tend to get 'lost'. Luckily, the local library will be having a book sa= le next month so I can hopefully pick up good reading copies from there. > = > > > > > I don't have a special favorite from the Silm, though my preferen= ces has always been for the elves. :) > > > > > > I have written a few Tolk= ien-based fics but they are usually set in late Third/ early Fourth Age. I = am working on a new fic now (a present), which is much more based in First/= Second Age -- and I am hoping to find someone to help me smooth out the mor= e obvious glitches. > > > > > > Later! > --9-4452238467-4962855382=:0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I sure do! Sorry it took me a couple days to get to you on this. here's = the link.

http://= groups.yahoo.com/group/N-W-R-G/

We're still in the process of re= storing the site, since the other one was hacked into. But it's functioning= again, yay! :-)

Roisin


--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@y= ahoogroups.com, "samtyr" wrote:
>
> Hi! Than= k you for the welcome. Right now I am not writing Numenoreans but there is = always the chance I will be be writing/referencing them in the future. Do y= ou have any links handy?
> --Sam
>
> --- In Silmarillion= WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "roisin_elendiel" shivna1980@ wrote:
> = >
> > Hi, welcome to SWG! I run a Numenorean research and writi= ng group, NWRG, so if that's the area you're interested in, I'm more than h= appy to help. We have an LJ community and a yahoo mailing list.
> >= ;
> > Happy writing!
> >
> > Roisin
> &g= t; --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "samtyr" > > wrote:
> > >
> > > I just wanted to = say hello and give a quick introduction, though I
> > think that s= everal of you probably know me already from el J (typo
> > deliber= ate, btw.)
> > >
> > > I started out in Tolkien by = reading "Hobbit", then "LotR" and finally "Silmarillion." I am still trying= to finish the "newer" books since the Silm was first published since my co= pies tend to get 'lost'. Luckily, the local library will be having a book s= ale next month so I can hopefully pick up good reading copies from there.> > >
> > > I don't have a special favorite from the= Silm, though my preferences has always been for the elves. :)
> >= >
> > > I have written a few Tolkien-based fics but they ar= e usually set in late Third/ early Fourth Age. I am working on a new fic no= w (a present), which is much more based in First/Second Age -- and I am hop= ing to find someone to help me smooth out the more obvious glitches.
>= ; > >
> > > Later!
>

--9-4452238467-4962855382=:0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2719 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66602 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2009 04:10:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2009 04:10:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n5-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.101) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2009 04:10:31 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.48] by n5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2009 04:10:10 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by t1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2009 04:10:10 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2009 04:10:10 -0000 Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 04:10:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="7-2023835617-2965253034=:8" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: For Those Interested in Numenor and Numenoreans X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=ZZKkSylTcYmWLLALV0fLDVM5-R7zvSfbc8J9tZYeTA-k7PmSpgBX1-GqjPiXpZH-kCXPJg X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel --7-2023835617-2965253034=:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I meant to post this ages ago, but never got around to it. I run a Nu= menorean and Numenore research group called NWRG. We are mainly a research = group, although people have posted their writing before on the group. The g= roup is 18+ because we do allow material rated G to NC-17. But if you are f= rom a country where the age of consent is 16+, let me know privately. Both = newbies and veterans are welcome. You're welcome if you're a dabbler, and j= ust interested in learning more, if you're a diehard fan like me, or anywhe= re in between. I will warn, we're still in the process of getting the site= back up, so not every resource is up yet. But the site is still functionin= g and active. I will warn ahead of time, when you sign up, do identify who = you are in the "message to moderators" box. We require this of everyone, re= gardless if your Yahoo ID matches your pen name or not. http://groups.yaho= o.com/group/N-W-R-G/ Thanks! Roi= sin - NWRG Admin --7-2023835617-2965253034=:8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, I meant to post this ages ago, but never got around to it. I run a = Numenorean and Numenore research group called NWRG. We are mainly a researc= h group, although people have posted their writing before on the group. The= group is 18+ because we do allow material rated G to NC-17. But if you are= from a country where the age of consent is 16+, let me know privately. Bot= h newbies and veterans are welcome. You're welcome if you're a dabbler, and= just interested in learning more, if you're a diehard fan like me, or anyw= here in between.

I will warn, we're still in the process of getting= the site back up, so not every resource is up yet. But the site is still f= unctioning and active. I will warn ahead of time, when you sign up, do iden= tify who you are in the "message to moderators" box. We require this o= f everyone, regardless if your Yahoo ID matches your pen name or not.

<= P>http://groups.yahoo.co= m/group/N-W-R-G/

Thanks!

Roisin - NWRG Admin

--7-2023835617-2965253034=:8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2720 Return-Path: X-Sender: samtyr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23935 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2009 19:12:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2009 19:12:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2009 19:12:46 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2009 19:11:57 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2009 19:11:57 -0000 Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:11:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "samtyr" Subject: Anyone For Some Beta? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91466528; y=6VKJ6xevSXVUvwz_yP1govn6kwf-LULQzj-4W3kCgtTo X-Yahoo-Profile: samtyr The fic I have is roughly half-way done so I'm really needing someone who k= nows background, especially the House of Finw=EB and the Houses of Gondolin= . And oh yes, there is some mpreg mentioned but not in any detail. Pleas= e contact me off-list. Thanks in advance! --Sam From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2721 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19452 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2009 21:41:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2009 21:41:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2009 21:41:45 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2009 21:41:24 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2009 21:41:24 -0000 Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 21:41:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="7-2440991240-4808452973=:7" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "alassante7" Subject: Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=H4bBR9UWU3xSii7Uu88p_r3bZjiNwkXS9OJBeBsc8UpUHqkcqA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --7-2440991240-4808452973=:7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Welcome to the group el J :) I know what you mean about losing books. I hav= e about 4 copies of Silm and 6 or so of ROTK because I keep getting them of= f the shelf to research something and forget to put it back. I do have the = collectors editions of each but I don't get those out to read. That's like = opening the packages on the action figures! Not that I collect the action f= igures or anything. *whistles* So yeah...hi and welcome. Check out ALEC if= you to like write for challenges. The theme this month is <3 Love <3 ~ htt= p://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/ and http://community. livejournal. com/= a_l_e_ c/ --- In Silm= arillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "samtyr" wrote: > > I ju= st wanted to say hello and give a quick introduction, though I think that s= everal of you probably know me already from el J (typo deliberate, btw.) = --7-2440991240-4808452973=:7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Welcome to the group el J :) I know what you mean about losing books. I hav= e about 4 copies of Silm and 6 or so of ROTK because I keep getting them of= f the shelf to research something and forget to put it back. I do have the = collectors editions of each but I don't get those out to read. That's like = opening the packages on the action figures! Not that I collect the action f= igures or anything. *whistles* So yeah...hi and welcome.

Check out = ALEC if you to like write for challenges. The theme this month is <3 Lov= e <3 ~
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/  and <= a href=3D"http://community.%20livejournal.%20com/a_l_e_%20c/">http://commun= ity. livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c/  

--- In SilmarillionWrite= rsGuild@yahoogroups.com, "samtyr" wrote:
>
>= I just wanted to say hello and give a quick introduction, though I think t= hat several of you probably know me already from el J (typo deliberate, btw= .)

















= --7-2440991240-4808452973=:7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2722 Return-Path: X-Sender: samtyr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85407 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2009 18:32:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2009 18:32:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2009 18:32:11 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2009 18:31:58 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2009 18:31:58 -0000 Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:31:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "samtyr" Subject: Re: Saying Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91466528; y=okf-1Q3OVqlBPDpSORiJ5WxZttMqaVZtQRJcU8SH-q3c X-Yahoo-Profile: samtyr I had a lot of the Tolkien books at one point, unfortunately they disappear= ed. Whether through mishandling or theft, I can't be sure. So now I just ma= ke sure to keep lots of "cheap" copies around, so if they go missing I won'= t be as upset. --Sam --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "ala= ssante7" wrote: > > Welcome to the group el J :) I know wh= at you mean about losing books. I > have about 4 copies of Silm and 6 or so= of ROTK because I keep getting > them off the shelf to research something = and forget to put it back. I do > have the collectors editions of each but = I don't get those out to read. > That's like opening the packages on the ac= tion figures! Not that I > collect the action figures or anything. *whistle= s* So yeah...hi and > welcome. > > Check out ALEC if you to like write for= challenges. The theme this month > is <3 Love <3 ~ > http://groups.yahoo.c= om/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/ > and > http://community. livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c/ > > > --- In Silmarillion= WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "samtyr" > wrote: > > > > I just wa= nted to say hello and give a quick introduction, though I > think that seve= ral of you probably know me already from el J (typo > deliberate, btw.) > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2723 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9607 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2009 19:13:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2009 19:13:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2009 19:13:21 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2009 19:13:13 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2009 19:13:13 -0000 Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:13:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "ithilwen2001" Subject: Fanon Maedhros? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=drrb-dKwK_7ZvQIy4UiAuqrWb1rV-3izRvoWQOWTldYIdXdnR72O X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 As those of you who read my LJ already know, I've been toying around with t= he idea of writing something for the Fanon Inverted SWG Challenge. Wimp!Ma= glor seems to be the bit of fanon the folks on my Friends list find the mos= t annoying, but right now Maglor's angry with me and says he's never going = to speak with me again. His elder brother, on the other hand, doesn't seem= to want to shut up. So how do people see Maedhros most commonly being por= trayed in fanon? I think I may have a story at hand which overturns some o= f his fanon conventions, but I'd like to hear how other people think he's m= ost commonly portrayed before I decide whether this fic would work as a cha= llenge entry. So, fanon!Maedhros: what's he like? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2724 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28179 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2009 20:13:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2009 20:13:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-m07.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.209) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2009 20:13:30 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-m07.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN1-24a2c1f351be; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:12:37 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c12.57900311 (30738) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:12:34 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1244405554" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.202 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fanon Maedhros? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=9f1xcUmxRtUYsC0uXYACVCNx9aAoE1ak26PIU9FZlcbxX50LeVwZ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1244405554 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fanon!Maedhros: what's he like? Aggressive; evil; black-hearted; a loner; wears black leather (slash fiction includes an abusive or at least semi-non-con relationship with Fingon)! Not the way I read the texts, you might guess from my tone here. **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377042x1201454362/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) -------------------------------1244405554 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
fanon!Maedhros: what's he like?
Aggressive; evil; black-hearted; a loner; wears black leather (slas= h fiction includes an abusive or at least semi-non-con relationship with F= ingon)! Not the way I read the texts, you might guess from my tone here.

 
 

An Excellent Credit Score i= s 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
-------------------------------1244405554-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2725 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6255 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2009 20:19:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2009 20:19:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f225.google.com) (209.85.219.225) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2009 20:19:00 -0000 X-Received: by ewy25 with SMTP id 25so3542514ewy.17 for ; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:18:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.211.166.2 with SMTP id t2mr524171ebo.67.1244405880202; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:18:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:18:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c3f0c72274f046bc7d297 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fanon Maedhros? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=CiDm745gvaZp3WT-iOAFPDyB34mIQ2_tpSzC9cufc1_oaL1G4IV3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174c3f0c72274f046bc7d297 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My personal impression of Maedhros is that he's less subject to fanon than probably any of the Feanorian brothers. I mean, in fanon, we have wimp!Maglor, unrepentantly-evil!Celegorm/Caranthir/Curufin (for the latter, add a pinch of the fact that he is a tool to his father), and Amrod-and-Amras-as-Fred-and-George-Weasley. I think, in comparison, Maedhros gets a much fairer and more varied treatment. One fanon about him that drives me absolute crazy, though it may be too specific for your purposes, is the idea that he threatened to kill Elrond and Elros and Sirion. I should also qualify that I have seen this done well, but usually, it seems to be done in the worst sense of fanon: with the assumption that, because this particular plot point has been used by many authors, then it must be true. To me, it is terribly out-of-character for Maedhros without the author doing some work to convince me, and this is rarely the case. More often, this fanon seems to be used more to illustrate *Maglor's* relative capacity for empathy and mercy than it is to show how far Maedhros has fallen to justify his *consideration* of such an act. Aside from that, I suppose that, fanonically, Maedhros is also generally seen as a nice guy, at least in comparison to his brothers. A convincingly shrewd and scheming Maedhros would be an interesting read. Also, a Maedhros who dislikes kids: it generally seems to be assumed that he was a good older brother and even stood in for his parents on occasion, which I don't know is really well supported in the texts, though it's generally assumed to be true. Perhaps my difficulty with this question comes more from the fact that my own Maedhros adheres to the fanonical Mr. Nice Guy. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174c3f0c72274f046bc7d297 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My personal impression of Maedhros is that he's less subject to fanon t= han probably any of the Feanorian brothers. I mean, in fanon, we have wimp!= Maglor, unrepentantly-evil!Celegorm/Caranthir/Curufin (for the latter, add = a pinch of the fact that he is a tool to his father), and Amrod-and-Amras-a= s-Fred-and-George-Weasley. I think, in comparison, Maedhros gets a much fai= rer and more varied treatment.

One fanon about him that drives me a= bsolute crazy, though it may be too specific for your purposes, is the idea= that he threatened to kill Elrond and Elros and Sirion. I should also qual= ify that I have seen this done well, but usually, it seems to be done in th= e worst sense of fanon: with the assumption that, because this particular p= lot point has been used by many authors, then it must be true. To me, it is= terribly out-of-character for Maedhros without the author doing some work = to convince me, and this is rarely the case. More often, this fanon seems t= o be used more to illustrate Maglor's relative capacity for empa= thy and mercy than it is to show how far Maedhros has fallen to justify his= consideration of such an act.

Aside from that, I suppose th= at, fanonically, Maedhros is also generally seen as a nice guy, at least in= comparison to his brothers. A convincingly shrewd and scheming Maedhros wo= uld be an interesting read. Also, a Maedhros who dislikes kids: it generall= y seems to be assumed that he was a good older brother and even stood in fo= r his parents on occasion, which I don't know is really well supported = in the texts, though it's generally assumed to be true.

Perhaps= my difficulty with this question comes more from the fact that my own Maed= hros adheres to the fanonical Mr. Nice Guy. :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org
--0015174c3f0c72274f046bc7d297-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2726 Return-Path: X-Sender: mithluin@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90175 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2009 21:34:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2009 21:34:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO col0-omc3-s18.col0.hotmail.com) (65.55.34.157) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2009 21:34:35 -0000 X-Received: from COL111-W5 ([65.55.34.137]) by col0-omc3-s18.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:34:14 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: mithluin@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_ee6caa26-cbbe-40fd-accb-7fe23333ac27_" To: Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 17:34:14 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2009 21:34:14.0279 (UTC) FILETIME=[B410A170:01C9E7B7] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marie Prosser Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Fanon Maedhros? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=207312497; y=9hSMBtj1VWxNKKVi-jqVVB6h-w9a3Sw78e9WQvJajeY_jVT3Xe-v4A X-Yahoo-Profile: marielprosser --_ee6caa26-cbbe-40fd-accb-7fe23333ac27_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > So, fanon!Maedhros: what's he like? I'm going to echo Dawn and stress= the 'big brother' aspect. I can't think of anything that is said in canon= about how they were growing up, but in fanon, Maedhros is often portrayed = as a surrogate father to his younger brothers. That is certainly a fair en= ough interpretation, since many oldest children in large families would fil= l that role. But there is room to play with it, too. I mean, maybe he was= closer to being a tyrannical older brother ;). How else do you keep such = proud and stubborn younger brothers in line? And since we don't know the a= ge gaps, maybe he was already grown by the time some of his younger brother= s were born - maybe the family isn't so closeknit as they are often portray= ed. His relationship with Fingon is certainly popular in fanfic, but = I don't know if there's one particularly fanon aspect of it you'd want to f= ocus on correcting. Whatever you choose to do, have fun with it! ~ = MithLuin _________________________________________________________________= Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. http://windowsliv= e.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_06= 2009 --_ee6caa26-cbbe-40fd-accb-7fe23333ac27_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> So, fanon!Maedhros: what's he like?

I'm going= to echo Dawn and stress the 'big brother' aspect.  I can't think of a= nything that is said in canon about how they were growing up, but in fanon,= Maedhros is often portrayed as a surrogate father to his younger brothers.=   That is certainly a fair enough interpretation, since many oldest ch= ildren in large families would fill that role.  But there is room to p= lay with it, too.  I mean, maybe he was closer to being a tyrannical o= lder brother ;).  How else do you keep such proud and stubborn younger= brothers in line?  And since we don't know the age gaps, maybe he was= already grown by the time some of his younger brothers were born - maybe t= he family isn't so closeknit as they are often portrayed. 
 =
His relationship with Fingon is certainly popular in fanfic, but I don= 't know if there's one particularly fanon aspect of it you'd want to focus = on correcting.
 
Whatever you choose to do, have fun with it!<= BR>  
~ MithLuin

Insert movie times and more withou= t leaving Hotmail=AE. Se= e how. --_ee6caa26-cbbe-40fd-accb-7fe23333ac27_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2727 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75641 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2009 13:02:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2009 13:02:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2009 13:02:10 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.48] (helo=elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MDeUL-00065z-Qx for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:02:09 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:02:09 -0400 Message-ID: <3221150.1244466129854.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:02:09 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec793cb1fea05bd7f9ee6bade11920f33e18350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Fanon Maedhros? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=0C8vh7BadzixCj8CyvrzmSrWPdrBEMkxdezUCEQxSB7lkzq7I2WF X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Thanks for the ideas, everyone! A Maedhros who doesn't like kids (haing changed one to many diapers during his own childhood) would certainly be a different take on the character. Maybe that will be something I can work with... Ithilwen From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2729 Return-Path: X-Sender: samtyr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90966 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2009 20:29:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2009 20:29:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2009 20:29:28 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2009 20:29:21 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2009 20:29:21 -0000 Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:29:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "samtyr" Subject: Apologies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91466528; y=7xbUHnb5IOVrkVpgKeaYKx3Nv9iNnSo4mNA4b9xZBidt X-Yahoo-Profile: samtyr I deleted my previous post because I realized -- too late, I'm afraid -- th= at I had managed to misread/understand the question about Maedhros. My apol= ogies to all. --Sam From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2730 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52005 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2009 23:24:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2009 23:24:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f208.google.com) (209.85.219.208) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2009 23:24:23 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ew0-f208.google.com with SMTP id 4so5590716ewy.22 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:24:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.133.19 with SMTP id g19mr7163316ebd.46.1244503463064; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:24:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:24:20 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c3b6ad6934b046bde8a73 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Apologies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=gqXOMA1wzQadrM2pLJbxvNQF6efsassho2zXk1Gtn_mQyV4ucTkY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174c3b6ad6934b046bde8a73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam, it's okay! :) It happens to the best of us! As my husband is fond of saying, when you walk on water, your foot drags a bit. ;) Dawn, who has accidentally posted private emails to the list before -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174c3b6ad6934b046bde8a73 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam, it's okay! :) It happens to the best of us! As my husband is fond of saying, when you walk on water, your foot drags a bit. ;)

Dawn, who has accidentally posted private emails to the list before

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015174c3b6ad6934b046bde8a73-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2731 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42832 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2009 23:34:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2009 23:34:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f221.google.com) (209.85.219.221) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2009 23:34:07 -0000 X-Received: by ewy21 with SMTP id 21so2113945ewy.27 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:33:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.116.14 with SMTP id o14mr5054161ebc.43.1244504023483; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:33:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c136e3dc45a046bdeac18 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:1 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: MEFA Announcement: Nominations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ljQpnJeN0dm9lpl8fcsr4Yi0QzmHNfO7EIXWNCUYLqIzpSKD4AJi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174c136e3dc45a046bdeac18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, I am passing on the following message from Marta regarding the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards, since we have a lot of participants on this list. Please take a minute to look it over, especially if you're participating as a nominator this year. All the best, Dawn ------------------------------------------------ The Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards nomination season is well underway, and we want your help! The MEFAs are only as good as the participation we receive. There are several ways you can get involved. ----- NOMINATING STORIES---- Nominations are underway, but there is still time for you to nominate your own favorites. You may nominate pieces until June 30. To nominate a piece you must join the Yahoo group MEFAwards (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/). You will then be sent a short list of questions that will help us set up your account and make sure you aren't already on our website under a different name. Within a day or two of answering these questions, you will be given nominating privileges at our website. How long this takes depends on how quickly you respond to the questions, but you should try to join the MEFAwards group by June 25 to assure that you get your password in time to nominate stories. If you are new to the MEFAs you will be sent a password and log-in information to our website, www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009 . If you were previously a member (for instance, if you already had your own stories nominated this year) your same password will still work, but now you will see links to nominate stories when you log in. If you do not receive your password or cannot nominate within 2-3 days, please email mefasupport-at-mefawards-dot-net for help. For more information on nominating see this FAQ: www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/index.php?page=FAQnewnominators ----- VOTING FOR STORIES ----- All members are also encouraged to start voting for their favorite pieces as soon as possible. While you have several months, veteran MEFA members will tell you it is never too early to start voting - voting early and *keeping at it* is the best way to assumre you review as many stories as you'd like to. You can vote either if you join the MEFAwards Yahoo group or if your own stories are nominated. To vote, log in to our website www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/ . Once logged in, click the "Stories" link at the top of the page. This will bring you to a list of all the nominated stories. Click on the title to open the webpage where the story is posted and read it; then come back to our website and click the "Enter New Review" link to the right of the story information. This will bring you to a form where you can enter a review of the story. The longer your review, the more points it gives the story, up to a maximum of ten. This review will also be visible to the author and other site visitors so it can serve as a recommendation. Right now nominations are coming in, so some of the stories listed may not end up competing. For others, the information displayed on our site may not be 100% correct, as it has not been approved by award volunteers. You can be sure a story will compete and that the information is correct when you see the status "Nomination Finalized" over on the right side of the screen. Other statuses will tell you how far along the story is in the nomination process, so you can judge which stories you want to read first. For more information on voting see this FAQ: www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/index.php?page=FAQnewvoters ----- HELPING IN OTHER WAYS ----- While these are the two most important ways to get involved, there are other ways to help out, too. You can make banners and buttons for nominated authors, reviewers who reach their reviewing goals, and the eventual winners. You can make announcements like this one at your favorite Tolkien-centric hangout. You can be a good MEFA citizen by keeping an eye out for typos and errors in our FAQs, and letting us know so we can fix them. And there are always smaller projects we need help with throughout the year, which we will post about at the MEFAwards Yahoo group as they come up. If you would like to get involved in any of this, please email mefasupport-at-mefawards-dot-net for more information. I hope to see you over at the MEFA website, and THANK YOU for your interest. :-) At your service (and your family's), Marta (MEFA Admin.) -- Ask a question - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/ or mefasupport@gmail.com Read the rules - http://mefawards.net/MEFA2009/index.php?page=FAQrules Nominate and vote - http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009 -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174c136e3dc45a046bdeac18 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I am passing on the following message from Marta regarding = the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards, since we have a lot of participants on = this list. Please take a minute to look it over, especially if you're p= articipating as a nominator this year.

All the best,

Dawn
------------------------------------------------

The Middle-ear= th Fanfiction Awards nomination season is well underway,
and we want yo= ur help! The MEFAs are only as good as the participation
we receive. Th= ere are several ways you can get involved.



----- NOMINAT= ING STORIES----

Nominations are underway, but there is still time = for you to nominate
your own favorites. You may nominate pieces until J= une 30.

To nominate a piece you must join the Yahoo group MEFAward= s
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/). You will then be sent a short list of questions that will help us set up your account and make sure you aren't already on our website under a different name. Withi= n
a day or two of answering these questions, you will be given
nomi= nating privileges at our website. How long this takes depends on
how qu= ickly you respond to the questions, but you should try to join
the MEFA= wards group by June 25 to assure that you get your password in
time to = nominate stories.

If you are new to the MEFAs you will be sent a p= assword and log-in
information to our website, www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009 . If= you were
previously a member (for instance, if you already had your ow= n stories
nominated this year) your same password will still work, but = now you
will see links to nominate stories when you log in. If you do n= ot
receive your password or cannot nominate within 2-3 days, please ema= il
mefasupport-at-mefawards-dot-
net for= help.

For more information on nominating see this FAQ:
www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/index.php?page=3DFAQnewnominato= rs



----- VOTING FOR STORIES -----

All membe= rs are also encouraged to start voting for their favorite
pieces as soo= n as possible. While you have several months, veteran
MEFA members will= tell you it is never too early to start voting -
voting early and *kee= ping at it* is the best way to assumre you review
as many stories as yo= u'd like to. You can vote either if you join the
MEFAwards Yahoo gr= oup or if your own stories are nominated.

To vote, log in to our w= ebsite www= .mefawards.net/MEFA2009/ . Once
logged in, click the "Stories&= quot; link at the top of the page. This will
bring you to a list of all= the nominated stories. Click on the title
to open the webpage where th= e story is posted and read it; then come
back to our website and click = the "Enter New Review" link to the right
of the story informa= tion. This will bring you to a form where you can
enter a review of the= story. The longer your review, the more points
it gives the story, up = to a maximum of ten. This review will also be
visible to the author and= other site visitors so it can serve as a
recommendation.

Righ= t now nominations are coming in, so some of the stories listed may
not = end up competing. For others, the information displayed on our
site may= not be 100% correct, as it has not been approved by award
volunteers. = You can be sure a story will compete and that the
information is correc= t when you see the status "Nomination Finalized"
over on the = right side of the screen. Other statuses will tell you how
far along th= e story is in the nomination process, so you can judge
which stories yo= u want to read first.

For more information on voting see this FAQ:=
www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/index.php?page=3DFAQnewv= oters



----- HELPING IN OTHER WAYS -----

Whi= le these are the two most important ways to get involved, there are
oth= er ways to help out, too. You can make banners and buttons for
nominate= d authors, reviewers who reach their reviewing goals, and the
eventual = winners. You can make announcements like this one at your
favorite Tolk= ien-centric hangout. You can be a good MEFA citizen by
keeping an eye o= ut for typos and errors in our FAQs, and letting us
know so we can fix = them. And there are always smaller projects we need
help with throughou= t the year, which we will post about at the
MEFAwards Yahoo group as th= ey come up. If you would like to get
involved in any of this, please em= ail mefasupport-at-mefawards-dot-net
for more information.

I h= ope to see you over at the MEFA website, and THANK YOU for your interest. := -)




At your service (and your family's),
Marta (MEFA Admin.)

--
Ask a questio= n - = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/ or
mefasupport@gmail.com
Read the rules - http://mefawards.net/MEFA2009/index.php?page=3DFAQrules
Nominate a= nd vote - h= ttp://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009


-- <= br>~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org
--0015174c136e3dc45a046bdeac18-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2732 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89276 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2009 13:24:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2009 13:24:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2009 13:24:51 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2009 13:24:34 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2009 13:24:34 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:24:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "ithilwen2001" Subject: Pranks Needed! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=u4YiM4CtYuZR39K2b-_XDVHuwniuFuOe6geVceOQ0JBdnM_m6Sc_ X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 I was still mulling over that SWG "Fanon Inverted" challenge when (to my co= mplete surprise) Amrod and Amras strolled by and tossed my muse an idea for= a short fic which manages to simultaneously support AND undermine the "Wea= sley Twins" fanon. (A neat trick - but hey, they ARE Feanorians, so doing = the impossible comes naturally to them!) Anyway, I'm in need of some fiend= ish prank suggestions. What memorable stunts might a young Amrod and Amras= Weasley have pulled while they were living in Aman? Creative suggestions = would be gratefully received! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2733 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42853 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2009 01:53:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2009 01:53:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f221.google.com) (209.85.219.221) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2009 01:53:01 -0000 X-Received: by ewy21 with SMTP id 21so2054366ewy.0 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:51:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.115.15 with SMTP id n15mr3144501ebc.20.1245030711236; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:51:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c1bb8471a6a046c594d0c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August--Available Topics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=n_Ml7FQ77ZX9FEVFAe-aip2Rb-7xvZPunZ_A2gqsK9M-ygzbfGIK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174c1bb8471a6a046c594d0c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, As those of you who read last month's newsletter know, we are running an event in August that is an expansion of our annual Akallabeth in August challenge. In a nutshell, this event will be a "retelling" of the * Akallabeth* from the myriad perspectives that our writers and artists take. We are looking for writers and artists interested in depicting the cultures and events included in the *Akallabeth.* You can find more information about the event here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august.php Over the next month or so, I will be posting periodic updates of what topics remain unclaimed for anyone who wishes to contribute to the event. The following topics are still available: -granting of Numenor to the Edain by the Valar -journey to and arrival at Numenor -early "golden" years of Numenor: friendship with Valar and Elves, increasing knowledge in craft and lore, et cetera -Ban of the Valar -Numenoreans return to Middle-earth to teach the Men there -Sauron fortifies Mordor -Numenoreans express first discontent with death, the "doom of Men"; Manwe sends messengers to Numenor -Tar-Ciryatan and Tar-Atanamir begin to extract tribute from Men of Middle-earth -division of Numenorean people into King's Men and Elendili/Elf-friends -growing Numenorean obsession with death, longevity, and preservation -Numenoreans build settlements in southern Middle-earth and act as lords there -Elf-friends continue to sail to the north and aid Gil-galad against Sauron -Sauron begins to afflict Numenorean settlements to the south -Ar-Gimilzor forbids the speaking of Elvish in Numenor and punishes friendship with the Elves -Tar-Palantir ascends to the throne and attempts to correct the failings of his ancestors -The conquests of Pharazon -The death of Tar-Palantir -Isildur steals a single fruit from the White Tree -construction of Sauron's temple and the destruction of Nimloth -worship of and sacrifice to Melkor at Armenelos -Numenoreans return to Middle-earth as conquerers -Sauron convinces Ar-Pharazon to break the Ban of the Valar -the Faithful prepare to flee Numenor -warnings and fear come from the west: clouds, lightning, shipwrecks, et cetera -Ar-Pharazon breaks the Ban of the Valar -the world is reshaped -the drowning of Numenor -Elendil and his sons are spared and driven into the east -Sauron returns to Mordor -explorers seek the Meneltarma and find the world to be round -the Straight Road In addition, if there is something that is *not* on the list that you'd like to write about, please provide us with a brief description, and we'll fit it into the chronology. Also, it is important to note that claiming an event *does not* mean that you have to write about that event specifically. While the story should take place around the same time as the event, it does not have to directly concern the event or even make mention of it. As always, we welcome alternative perspectives and creativity and encourage free-roaming muses! :) Also, please make sure that you read the project guidelines before signing up: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august.php If you're interested in a topic, please email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org or reply to this message. The list of topics will be regularly updated on our website and LJ community: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august.php#topics http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/142476.html May the muses smile upon you, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174c1bb8471a6a046c594d0c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

As those of you who read last month's newsletter know, = we are running an event in August that is an expansion of our annual Akalla= beth in August challenge. In a nutshell, this event will be a "retelli= ng" of the Akallabeth from the myriad perspectives that our wri= ters and artists take. We are looking for writers and artists interested in= depicting the cultures and events included in the Akallabeth. You c= an find more information about the event here:

http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august.php

Over the next mon= th or so, I will be posting periodic updates of what topics remain unclaime= d for anyone who wishes to contribute to the event. The following topics ar= e still available:

-granting of Numenor to the Edain by the Valar<= br>
-journey to and arrival at Numenor

-early "golden&q= uot; years of Numenor: friendship with Valar and Elves,
increasing know= ledge in craft and lore, et cetera

-Ban of the Valar

-Num= enoreans return to Middle-earth to teach the Men there

-Sauron for= tifies Mordor

-Numenoreans express first discontent with death, th= e "doom of Men"; Manwe
sends messengers to Numenor

-= Tar-Ciryatan and Tar-Atanamir begin to extract tribute from Men of
Midd= le-earth

-division of Numenorean people into King's Men and El= endili/Elf-friends

-growing Numenorean obsession with death, longe= vity, and preservation

-Numenoreans build settlements in southern = Middle-earth and act as lords
there

-Elf-friends continue to = sail to the north and aid Gil-galad against Sauron

-Sauron begins = to afflict Numenorean settlements to the south

-Ar-Gimilzor forbid= s the speaking of Elvish in Numenor and punishes
friendship with the El= ves

-Tar-Palantir ascends to the throne and attempts to correct th= e failings
of his ancestors

-The conquests of Pharazon
-The death of Tar-Palantir

-Isildur steals a single fruit from = the White Tree

-construction of Sauron's temple and the destru= ction of Nimloth

-worship of and sacrifice to Melkor at Armenelos<= br>
-Numenoreans return to Middle-earth as conquerers

-Sauron= convinces Ar-Pharazon to break the Ban of the Valar

-the Faithfu= l prepare to flee Numenor

-warnings and fear come from the west: c= louds, lightning, shipwrecks, et
cetera

-Ar-Pharazon breaks th= e Ban of the Valar

-the world is reshaped

-the drowning o= f Numenor

-Elendil and his sons are spared and driven into the eas= t

-Sauron returns to Mordor

-explorers seek the Meneltar= ma and find the world to be round

-the Straight Road

In add= ition, if there is something that is not on the list that you'd = like to write about, please provide us with a brief description, and we'= ;ll fit it into the chronology. Also, it is important to note that claiming= an event does not mean that you have to write about that event spec= ifically. While the story should take place around the same time as the eve= nt, it does not have to directly concern the event or even make mention of = it. As always, we welcome alternative perspectives and creativity and encou= rage free-roaming muses! :)

Also, please make sure that you read th= e project guidelines before signing up:

http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august.php

If you're interested= in a topic, please email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT o= rg or reply to this message. The list of topics will be regularly updated o= n our website and LJ community:

http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august.php#topics
http://community.livejou= rnal.com/silwritersguild/142476.html

May the muses smile upon yo= u,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/= heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015174c1bb8471a6a046c594d0c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2734 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24803 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2009 16:00:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2009 16:00:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f214.google.com) (209.85.219.214) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2009 16:00:56 -0000 X-Received: by ewy10 with SMTP id 10so431494ewy.40 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:59:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.60.8 with SMTP id i8mr1607995eba.59.1245859186686; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:59:46 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c334e433aaf046d1a324e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Mod Post: Intermittent Internet Access for Dawn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=vuJ43YXzbeKQo6bSimGJF91aSaGIU1ndAktgqdA1n1qnBl4XlP1S X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174c334e433aaf046d1a324e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, everyone, Beginning tonight, my Internet access will be intermittent at best until 7 July. I will be on vacation, and while we'll have Internet access at our B&B, I don't know how good it will be or how often I'm going to be online. Usually, I welcome SWG-related correspondence at both my private email account and at the moderator email account. However, until 7 July, if you need urgent assistance with something, please email moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. This address reaches multiple moderators, so you're more likely to get a speedy reply from it than from emailing me personally. Non-urgent emails relating to the group are, as always, welcome at my private email account, just please understand that I may not be able to answer quickly, or at all until 7 July. Take care, everyone, and don't break teh Interwebz while I am gone. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174c334e433aaf046d1a324e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,
=C2=A0
Beginning tonight, my Inter= net access will be intermittent at best until 7 July. I will be on vacation= , and while we'll have Internet access at our B&B, I don't know= how good it will be or how often I'm going to be online.
= =C2=A0
Usually, I welcome SWG-related correspondence at both my = private email account and at the moderator email account. However, until 7 = July, if you need urgent assistance with something, please email moderator = AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. This address reaches multiple moderato= rs, so you're more likely to get a speedy reply from it than from email= ing me personally. Non-urgent emails relating to the group are, as always, = welcome at my private email account, just please understand that I may not = be able to answer quickly, or at all until 7 July.
=C2=A0
=
Take care, everyone, and don't break teh Interwebz while I am gon= e. :)
=C2=A0
Dawn
=
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org
--0015174c334e433aaf046d1a324e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2735 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86315 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2009 16:56:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2009 16:56:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2009 16:56:01 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.33] (helo=elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MJVlQ-0002dc-Ua for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:56:00 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:56:00 -0400 Message-ID: <28033795.1245862560956.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:56:00 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79a6ec97eed40855131ab668a4b6ea88da350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: Intermittent Internet Access for Dawn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=87fj3QLvPwOJMC-isCWGnWcn0gTia9cZ5G02yZhlqn6fIfyZoIKt X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Thanks for letting us know.  Have a great trip, Dawn!

(We have to break SOMETHING in your absence.  If we can't break the Interwebz or the archive, can we at least be permitted to break canon? Pretty please?)

Ithilwen


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
Sent: Jun 24, 2009 11:59 AM
To: SWG
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: Intermittent Internet Access for Dawn



Hi, everyone,
 
Beginning tonight, my Internet access will be intermittent at best until 7 July. I will be on vacation, and while we'll have Internet access at our B&B, I don't know how good it will be or how often I'm going to be online.
 
Usually, I welcome SWG-related correspondence at both my private email account and at the moderator email account. However, until 7 July, if you need urgent assistance with something, please email moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. This address reaches multiple moderators, so you're more likely to get a speedy reply from it than from emailing me personally. Non-urgent emails relating to the group are, as always, welcome at my private email account, just please understand that I may not be able to answer quickly, or at all until 7 July.
 
Take care, everyone, and don't break teh Interwebz while I am gone. :)
 
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2736 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7481 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2009 17:11:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2009 17:11:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f219.google.com) (209.85.219.219) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2009 17:11:31 -0000 X-Received: by ewy19 with SMTP id 19so1475855ewy.39 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:10:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.112.1 with SMTP id k1mr1644954ebc.71.1245863430346; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:10:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <28033795.1245862560956.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <28033795.1245862560956.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:10:30 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bea74345a39046d1b2fda X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: Intermittent Internet Access for Dawn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=7c-AtoQATApBGj-23za4s6Rk-QqTWmqS1_bCAbVXV3lJ-l5pV_ku X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174bea74345a39046d1b2fda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Diana Nevins wrote: > We have to break SOMETHING in your absence. If we can't break the Interwebz or the archive, can we at least be permitted to > break canon? Pretty please? You don't even have to *ask* to do that! >:^D Thank you, Ithilwen! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174bea74345a39046d1b2fda Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Diana Nevins <<= a href=3D"mailto:dlnevins@earthlink.net">dlnevins@earthlink.net> wrote:
> We have to break SOMETHING in your absence.=C2=A0 If we = can't break the Interwebz or the archive, can we at least be permitted = to
> break canon? Pretty please?
=C2=A0
You don't even have to ask to do that! >:^D
= =C2=A0
Thank you, Ithilwen!
=C2=A0
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorema= ster/
http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015174bea74345a39046d1b2fda-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2737 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81363 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2009 22:09:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2009 22:09:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.227) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2009 22:09:52 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f9so194180rvb.43 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:08:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.141.2.18 with SMTP id e18mr1625493rvi.140.1245881331337; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:08:51 -0700 Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1130a2fcc90046d1f5a43 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: Fic: Balrog 1/1 Rating: G X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=1oPt8Q_62MlMfoTHVHuL8uu2eM2gy10JZmqFxJuehlIP X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --000e0cd1130a2fcc90046d1f5a43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Title: Balrog Author: Phyncke Fandom: Silmarillion/LOTR Beta: Keiliss Email: jhfink@sbcglobal.net Rating: G Pairing: Balrog (unnamed) Warnings: none Time Frame: War of Wrath and through the subsequent ages. Disclaimer: These characters do not belong to me. They are the property of the Tolkien estate. I use them here for my own amusement and hopefully for yours at no profit. Summary: What does a balrog think in the deep recesses of the earth? Balrog We are two beings in one and to ourselves we are always two, fire and shadow, both darkness and flame. Our power lies in the convergence of these two entities, where they meet and make us whole. Yes, we are strong and we have vanquished many. We are alone. Once there were many of us and it was glorious. Then the earth was changed, so we fled to this place, digging deep where we could to hide here and slumber, slumber undisturbed by the creatures of the light and the shining ones who took the Master away into the nothingness. We know he will come again but can not determine it and for now we rest and ponder all that has passed and all that might yet be; glorious past with possibilities for our future. We do not know where our brethren are. Perhaps they are hidden somewhere in the deep places too, waiting as we do for our time to return. Our thoughts wander between waking and sleeping. The fire expands and contracts in this space we have made here beneath the ground. Time passes unmeasured, days, weeks, months, years, centuries, millennia, we cannot tell how long. For now, we rest. --000e0cd1130a2fcc90046d1f5a43 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Title: Balrog

Author: Phyncke

Fandom: Silmarillion/LOTR
Beta: Keiliss
Email: jhfink@sbcglobal.net
Ra= ting: G
Pairing: Balrog (unnamed)
Warnings: none
Time Frame: = War of Wrath and through the subsequent ages.

Disclaimer: These characters do not belong to me. Th= ey are the property of the Tolkien estate. I use them here for my own amuse= ment and hopefully for yours at no profit.
Summary: What does a balrog= think in the deep recesses of the earth?

=A0

Balrog

=A0=

We are two beings in one and to ourselves we a= re always two, fire and shadow, both darkness and flame. Our power lies in = the convergence of these two entities, where they meet and make us whole. Y= es, we are strong and we have vanquished many.

=A0

We are alone. Once there were many of us a= nd it was glorious. Then the earth was changed, so we fled to this place, d= igging deep where we could to hide here and slumber, slumber undisturbed by= the creatures of the light and the shining ones who took the Master away i= nto the nothingness. We know he will come again but can not determine it an= d for now we rest and ponder all that has passed and all that might yet be;= glorious past with possibilities for our future. We do not know where our = brethren are. Perhaps they are hidden somewhere in the deep places too, wai= ting as we do for our time to return.

=A0

=

Our thoughts wander between waking and sleeping. Th= e fire expands and contracts in this space we have made here beneath the gr= ound. Time passes unmeasured, days, weeks, months, years, centuries, millen= nia, we cannot tell how long.

=A0

For now, we rest.

--000e0cd1130a2fcc90046d1f5a43-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2738 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11984 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 00:32:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 00:32:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.97) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 00:32:11 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 41336 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Jun 2009 00:32:10 -0000 Message-ID: <189560.41055.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: W2TAHrsVM1nQ.Q9ACH08rHw0kB6XzIGzaMwPP.knDEq2IyEXkgRKaZ3XD6uBgfVyYUMhqXnlJsL.eaVPPowMXTVMmLAwTStJdOYl7ISS2m.d8KW1JKhTfNGMwkRCr2Ho0PrLV2znYIYGiSfTi8WzA_Zr_fKvhwZ3lolu5mRIfsEyg_inwg5pG1ISj2io1xCPht7Z29w.AQpfbrfInNV_7ybNdn9A4ugmYrkZx4m7SWEfrGMTUcSFcERdH2zI0BmpYBwMLPmbU2t1yZQIJxtVaVMsUMD8QFozFpQBe0KNOH07jtbdmfSK8w-- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:32:10 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.17 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:32:10 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1710732442-1245889930=:41055" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=KJPq2vpHTKsgCL9LFl0Qit6Zua4an7I5wCxxU9iLEpJ3H2U_zg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1710732442-1245889930=:41055 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would the location of Gondolin have been completely destroyed during the Wa= r of the Wrath? If not, where would it be in the Second Age and after? ~~*= *~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien = =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8= .=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0= =A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --0-1710732442-1245889930=:41055 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Would the location of Gondolin have been comp= letely destroyed during the War of the Wrath? If not, where would it be in = the Second Age and after?

<= font color=3D"#002f80" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"3">
~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge<= /strong>. 
JRR Tolkien=
 
 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:-
        =B8.=B7= =B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante= .. =BA=B0
=     -:=A6:-&nbs= p;   ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-<= /div>

--0-1710732442-1245889930=:41055-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2739 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36543 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 02:03:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 02:03:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 02:03:29 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.33] (helo=elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MJeJF-0003cT-5i for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:03:29 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:03:28 -0400 Message-ID: <4236746.1245895409202.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:03:28 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796c573423ae295e697b6230d5fc65dbec350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=l1M1HH9UZagDqAiplR-bbW0KjhdhLw3p05yGW2QHqUWHdoXUPULn X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 The only parts of Beleriand that survive the War of Wrath are a part of Oss= iriand (in the southeast corner), which is renamed Lindon in the Second Age= , and the tip of the Hill of Himring. Everything else sank under the wave= s, so if you want to visit Gondolin after the Frist Age, you'll need scuba = gear. Ithilwen -----Original Message----- >From: Alassante7 >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8:32 PM >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Qu= estions about Gondolin > >Would the location of Gondolin have been complete= ly destroyed during the War of the Wrath? If not, where would it be in the = Second Age and after? > >~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take m= y revenge.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C2=A0 =C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8= =C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-= =C2=A0 >=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2= =A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- > > > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2740 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3969 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 02:07:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 02:07:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 02:07:53 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 02:07:43 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 02:07:43 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:07:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4236746.1245895409202.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "alassante7" Subject: Re: Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=a9pv32aO6VqeOA3lipd7IALMNZFyJI9SbAQTraiGdwaK3sSBxg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 Crap. Why do the Valar have to sink everything? *pouts* --- In Silmarilli= onWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Diana Nevins wrote: > > The = only parts of Beleriand that survive the War of Wrath are a part of Ossiria= nd (in the southeast corner), which is renamed Lindon in the Second Age, an= d the tip of the Hill of Himring. Everything else sank under the waves, s= o if you want to visit Gondolin after the Frist Age, you'll need scuba gear= . > > Ithilwen > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Alassante7 > >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8:32 PM > >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild > >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGui= ld] Questions about Gondolin > > > >Would the location of Gondolin have bee= n completely destroyed during the War of the Wrath? If not, where would it = be in the Second Age and after? > > > >~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, = I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C2=A0 =C2=A0..=C2= =B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- > >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))= =C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 > >=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0 > >=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*= =C2=A0 -:|:- > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2741 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92544 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 04:25:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 04:25:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 04:25:16 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.33] (helo=elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MJgW7-0008OD-Sn for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:24:55 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:24:55 -0400 Message-ID: <11989476.1245903895902.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:24:55 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7925893c474b247e570b1e060ecd890465350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=tnuCBodojpyAKzxdLkQtbJeCjG2Epr3bUsJxJzbxZhza1TqChX2j X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 *whispers the magic wards 'AU'* Ithilwen -----Original Message----- >From= : alassante7 >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 10:07 PM >To: Silma= rillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re= : Questions about Gondolin > >Crap. Why do the Valar have to sink everythin= g? *pouts* > > >--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Diana Nevi= ns wrote: >> >> The only parts of Beleriand that survive the= War of Wrath are a part of Ossiriand (in the southeast corner), which is r= enamed Lindon in the Second Age, and the tip of the Hill of Himring. Ever= ything else sank under the waves, so if you want to visit Gondolin after th= e Frist Age, you'll need scuba gear. >> >> Ithilwen >> >> -----Original M= essage----- >> >From: Alassante7 >> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8:= 32 PM >> >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Questions about Gondolin >> = > >> >Would the location of Gondolin have been completely destroyed during = the War of the Wrath? If not, where would it be in the Second Age and after= ? >> > >> >~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C3= =82=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C3=82=C2=A0 =C3=82=C2=A0..=C3=82=C2=B7*= =C3=82=C2=B4=C3=82=C2=A8=C3=82=C2=A8))=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0 -:=C3=82=C2= =A6:- >> >=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3= =82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0 =C3=82=C2=B8.=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=82=C2=A0 .= =C3=82=C2=B7=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=82=C2=A8=C3=82=C2=A8))=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0-= :|:-=C3=82=C2=A0 >> >=C3=82=C2=B0=C3=82=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C3=82=C2=BA= =C3=82=C2=B0 >> >=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0 -:=C3=82=C2=A6:-=C3= =82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0 ((=C3=82=C2=B8=C3=82=C2=B8.=C3=82=C2=B7= =C3=82=C2=B4*=C3=82=C2=A0 -:|:- >> > >> > >> > >> > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2742 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29218 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 08:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 08:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 08:15:09 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1245917668; bh=z05zquWDONXr8OvXe5v2/4EJEjsveuEh7n8+G88uv9o=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=pzCtAFfoMSq0TYtmmXE7muOnCDZ82DvMRkot9OHDDJQEGSw4PtqB9M9hezH56vyLjGNt/LKwgc4TsOryI5cLL6kKKLoIK2IY44u8UY9UyifEZV389nWoh7DQ58KSdJtA Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 08:14:28 -0000 Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 08:14:28 -0000 X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24393 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 04:19:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 04:19:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 04:19:01 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 04:18:56 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 04:18:56 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 04:18:54 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melissa_pch" Subject: Re: Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=d9hpWOraRKsoNFCLoRhDD1OrQtfxibnAvEuPuVuVblSH8VCNoU8 X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch X-YGroups-SubInfo: t=0;f=16;g=7c67N5Lpnt2durhxyN1mDHMGoH7HMaOBUfpTp9x2ERKsRwA5HX9t8X2l3gSE8gJ50eM; X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 25 Jun 2009 08:14:27 -0000 Ah... I thought of having someone go there after the rest of Beleriand had = been sunk... *grumble* Mmm. I think the Valar (well, or the Maiar that par= ticipated in the War of Wrath) didn't intentionally sink the land... I supp= ose it's just the side effect of the use of their power to battle Melkor's = minions. After all, none of the dark side put any restraints on their power= when fighting. (I borrow the idea from Fiondil here, and I agree to it.) = By the way... the tip of Himring? :shocked: Where was it located, then? Wha= t did it become? And I only knew now that Lindon had been once a part of Os= siriand... *blush* I only knew that half (or perhaps more) of the Blue Moun= tain (or is it "Mountains"? I often mistake it...) was torn and sunk under = the sea. (I wonder what Ulmo and his Maiar thought about all the lands and = rivers and everything else drowned under the water... The contaminated wate= rs in Ungolian's dwelling was part of the drowned land... (LOL Out of topic= ... Sorry.)) - Rey (wind rider) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo= groups.com, "alassante7" wrote: > > Crap. Why do the Valar= have to sink everything? *pouts* > > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@y= ahoogroups.com, Diana Nevins wrote: > > > > The only parts of B= eleriand that survive the War of Wrath are a part of Ossiriand (in the sout= heast corner), which is renamed Lindon in the Second Age, and the tip of th= e Hill of Himring. Everything else sank under the waves, so if you want t= o visit Gondolin after the Frist Age, you'll need scuba gear. > > > > Ithi= lwen > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >From: Alassante7 > > >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8:32 PM > > >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild > > >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild= ] Questions about Gondolin > > > > > >Would the location of Gondolin have b= een completely destroyed during the War of the Wrath? If not, where would i= t be in the Second Age and after? > > > > > >~~**~~ I warn you, if you bor= e me, I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C2=A0 =C2=A0.= .=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- > > >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8= =C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 > > >=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2= =B0 > > >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2= =B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- > > > > > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2743 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9365 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 08:15:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 08:15:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.101) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 08:15:15 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1245917668; bh=xDOlY8t5XQP39dG7ipgKPZYi0ooT4HbogKLXfWEYzMk=; h=Received:Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=Rw1NfeSSXFl8dH0xboxhRWEiFBHDiQExRn0I9qbObhYimYh0dPgLt3NnIzbWpjzCrpgEWP5Qz1gwgR9ZJcvBEw5Au2+u3oZYvpmeivjVZJ3vCiIU6MzGv2ZwGiAGX03K Received: from [67.195.134.48] by n5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 08:14:28 -0000 Received: from [69.147.65.148] by t1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 08:14:28 -0000 Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 08:14:28 -0000 X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55156 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 03:45:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 03:45:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 03:45:24 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 03:44:23 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 03:44:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:44:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melissa_pch" Subject: Re: Mod Post: Intermittent Internet Access for Dawn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=qlfm74epc88q1vMndIX6uxfdw1HH-G_Ngf9psOJWbSBT0h4p8cs X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch X-YGroups-SubInfo: t=0;f=16;g=pMkJD7N9LrNPk1QKryZtp1mbWGfIdskZFGSTx6kgLYWtZwb7TBxAjX2CjtfGC_vzj3o; X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 25 Jun 2009 08:14:27 -0000 Ahh... I joined when the mother of the site was gone... Well, happy holiday= , Dawn! :) I am trying to acquaint myself with both the LJ community and th= is Yahoo Group, so pardon me if this message is somehow wrongly-sent or wei= rd. LOL - Rey (wind rider, in SWG site) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@y= ahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, everyone, >= > Beginning tonight, my Internet access will be intermittent at best unti= l 7 > July. I will be on vacation, and while we'll have Internet access at = our > B&B, I don't know how good it will be or how often I'm going to be on= line. > > Usually, I welcome SWG-related correspondence at both my private= email > account and at the moderator email account. However, until 7 July,= if you > need urgent assistance with something, please email moderator AT = > silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. This address reaches multiple moderator= s, > so you're more likely to get a speedy reply from it than from emailing= me > personally. Non-urgent emails relating to the group are, as always, w= elcome > at my private email account, just please understand that I may not= be able > to answer quickly, or at all until 7 July. > > Take care, every= one, and don't break teh Interwebz while I am gone. :) > > Dawn > > -- >= ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2744 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 55603 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 08:15:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 08:15:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 08:15:20 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1245917668; bh=8nZn6iAIDyN03mYKtE8ojJKzVfSi9ajY01S0ILlCrHU=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=dV81ml8SyaqRtMNa3h83dMvCdgr+eKOHbWPq8x23wSxM1ok+MB8N8yviNNtNq2x5cxvK5/1uuo41az+jOs+Zrjev9rQK96whEcccbqKWZDGEADdDmhsqha2ZO/S/Qjcu Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 08:14:28 -0000 Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 08:14:28 -0000 X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6302 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 03:55:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 03:55:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 03:55:38 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 03:54:49 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 03:54:49 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:54:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melissa_pch" Subject: Re: Fic: Balrog 1/1 Rating: G X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=qxoqvdx-ScGw09If77ju8ILIb4w21lM4oRwDzP7wv6EN-cSDJFA X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch X-YGroups-SubInfo: t=0;f=16;g=ELcC-acZJeI-R_YnvYdz0C54QuhVbZEqJ9DkKmMYvBkEEye6P9FLodnd9nDId16uUYQ; X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 25 Jun 2009 08:14:27 -0000 Great ficlet! :) LOL So a Balrog is formed of two entities, eh? Quite inter= esting. Those two seems to work well with each other too, unlike some other= two-dimentioned beings I know. I like how you portrayed the Valar as the "= shining ones." Or did the term pertain to another race altogether? *blush* = Uh-oh... I got the wrong impression, then... The Balrog sounded suspicious= ly like the one Gandalf fought in Moria, by the way... ;) - Rey (wind ride= r) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Jane Fink wrote: > > Title: Balrog > > Author: Phyncke > > Fandom: Silmarillion/= LOTR > Beta: Keiliss > Email: jhfink@... > Rating: G > Pairing: Balrog (unn= amed) > Warnings: none > Time Frame: War of Wrath and through the subsequen= t ages. > > Disclaimer: These characters do not belong to me. They are the= property of > the Tolkien estate. I use them here for my own amusement and= hopefully for > yours at no profit. > Summary: What does a balrog think in= the deep recesses of the earth? > > > > Balrog > > > > We are two be= ings in one and to ourselves we are always two, fire and > shadow, both dar= kness and flame. Our power lies in the convergence of these > two entities,= where they meet and make us whole. Yes, we are strong and we > have vanqui= shed many. > > > > We are alone. Once there were many of us and it was g= lorious. Then the earth > was changed, so we fled to this place, digging de= ep where we could to hide > here and slumber, slumber undisturbed by the cr= eatures of the light and the > shining ones who took the Master away into t= he nothingness. We know he will > come again but can not determine it and f= or now we rest and ponder all that > has passed and all that might yet be; = glorious past with possibilities for > our future. We do not know where our= brethren are. Perhaps they are hidden > somewhere in the deep places too, = waiting as we do for our time to return. > > > > Our thoughts wander bet= ween waking and sleeping. The fire expands and > contracts in this space we= have made here beneath the ground. Time passes > unmeasured, days, weeks, = months, years, centuries, millennia, we cannot tell > how long. > > > > = For now, we rest. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2745 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34971 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 08:32:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 08:32:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 08:32:28 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 08:32:23 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 08:32:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:32:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <11989476.1245903895902.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melissa_pch" Subject: Re: Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=Uq3VonILnxMiie7rOu9OaMRZiq2QaTzWXzBAASaxjkDWg2tKavA X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch Ahahaha! I did not think of that... :D Thanks! LOL But I don't often make A= U things... Well, I have to, for this. - Rey (wind rider) --- In Silmaril= lionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Diana Nevins wrote: > > *w= hispers the magic wards 'AU'* > > Ithilwen > > -----Original Message-----= > >From: alassante7 > >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 10:07 PM > >To:= SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersG= uild] Re: Questions about Gondolin > > > >Crap. Why do the Valar have to si= nk everything? *pouts* > > > > > >--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogrou= ps.com, Diana Nevins wrote: > >> > >> The only parts of Beleria= nd that survive the War of Wrath are a part of Ossiriand (in the southeast = corner), which is renamed Lindon in the Second Age, and the tip of the Hill= of Himring. Everything else sank under the waves, so if you want to visi= t Gondolin after the Frist Age, you'll need scuba gear. > >> > >> Ithilwen= > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> >From: Alassante7 = > >> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8:32 PM > >> >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild > >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGui= ld] Questions about Gondolin > >> > > >> >Would the location of Gondolin ha= ve been completely destroyed during the War of the Wrath? If not, where wou= ld it be in the Second Age and after? > >> > > >> >~~**~~ I warn you, if y= ou bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C3=82=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C3=82=C2= =A0 =C3=82=C2=A0..=C3=82=C2=B7*=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=82=C2=A8=C3=82=C2= =A8))=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0 -:=C3=82=C2=A6:- > >> >=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2= =A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0 =C3=82=C2= =B8.=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=82=C2=A0 .=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=82=C2= =A8=C3=82=C2=A8))=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0-:|:-=C3=82=C2=A0 > >> >=C3=82=C2= =B0=C3=82=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C3=82=C2=BA=C3=82=C2=B0 > >> >=C3=82=C2=A0= =C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0 -:=C3=82=C2=A6:-=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2= =A0 ((=C3=82=C2=B8=C3=82=C2=B8.=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=82=C2=B4*=C3=82=C2=A0 -:|:- = > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2746 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88338 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 13:46:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 13:46:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 13:46:25 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.46] (helo=elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MJpHV-0007h3-Ea for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:46:25 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:46:25 -0400 Message-ID: <17204164.1245937585460.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:46:25 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79e2f7572433fb42e2bb7e822d35814cc3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=naxGrtCyq3ce0W4NHYo15mD-3R0vE4fpbMbIv2YwCzXwRtPKq6Cz X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 No, the Valar didn't intentionally sink the land - but they knew it was goi= ng to happen, because it had happened during their previous tussles with Me= lkor. Parts of the land sank when the Valar went to war for the sake of th= e newly-awakened Elves (which is one reason they were unwilling to go to wa= r again when Mortal Men awoke; they didn't know just where Men had awakened= , and were afraid they'd sink that land and drown the new race accidentally= ), and there were even more epic upheavals before the Elves came into being= , when Melkor overturned the Lamps. And yes, the summit of Himring becomes= an island; if you look at a map of Third Age Middle earth, in the northwes= t corner of the map you'll see a small island named Himling - that's all th= at's left of Himring and the March of Maedhros. Why Himring survives when = parts of the Ered Luin don't is anyone's guess; I guess by sheer luck the V= alar didn't trample the ground as much around there. :D Ithilwen -----Ori= ginal Message----- >From: melissa_pch >Sent: Jun 24= , 2009 11:18 PM >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Si= lmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin > >Ah... I thought of = having someone go there after the rest of Beleriand had been sunk... *grumb= le* > >Mmm. I think the Valar (well, or the Maiar that participated in the = War of Wrath) didn't intentionally sink the land... I suppose it's just the= side effect of the use of their power to battle Melkor's minions. After al= l, none of the dark side put any restraints on their power when fighting. (= I borrow the idea from Fiondil here, and I agree to it.) > >By the way... t= he tip of Himring? :shocked: Where was it located, then? What did it become= ? And I only knew now that Lindon had been once a part of Ossiriand... *blu= sh* I only knew that half (or perhaps more) of the Blue Mountain (or is it = "Mountains"? I often mistake it...) was torn and sunk under the sea. (I won= der what Ulmo and his Maiar thought about all the lands and rivers and ever= ything else drowned under the water... The contaminated waters in Ungolian'= s dwelling was part of the drowned land... (LOL Out of topic... Sorry.)) > = >- Rey (wind rider) > > > > >--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.c= om, "alassante7" wrote: >> >> Crap. Why do the Valar have = to sink everything? *pouts* >> >> >> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yaho= ogroups.com, Diana Nevins wrote: >> > >> > The only parts of Be= leriand that survive the War of Wrath are a part of Ossiriand (in the south= east corner), which is renamed Lindon in the Second Age, and the tip of the= Hill of Himring. Everything else sank under the waves, so if you want to= visit Gondolin after the Frist Age, you'll need scuba gear. >> > >> > Ith= ilwen >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > >From: Alassante7 >> > >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8:32 PM >> > >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild <= silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com> >> > >Subject: [SilmarillionWrite= rsGuild] Questions about Gondolin >> > > >> > >Would the location of Gondol= in have been completely destroyed during the War of the Wrath? If not, wher= e would it be in the Second Age and after? >> > > >> > >~~**~~ I warn you,= if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C3=82=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C3=82= =C2=A0 =C3=82=C2=A0..=C3=82=C2=B7*=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=82=C2=A8=C3=82= =C2=A8))=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0 -:=C3=82=C2=A6:- >> > >=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82= =C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0 =C3=82= =C2=B8.=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=82=C2=A0 .=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=82= =C2=A8=C3=82=C2=A8))=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0-:|:-=C3=82=C2=A0 >> > >=C3=82= =C2=B0=C3=82=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C3=82=C2=BA=C3=82=C2=B0 >> > >=C3=82=C2= =A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0 -:=C3=82=C2=A6:-=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82= =C2=A0 ((=C3=82=C2=B8=C3=82=C2=B8.=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=82=C2=B4*=C3=82=C2=A0 -:|= :- >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2747 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81954 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 13:52:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 13:52:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 13:52:23 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.46] (helo=elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MJpNH-0004BA-BN for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:52:23 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:52:23 -0400 Message-ID: <12602638.1245937943332.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:52:23 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79bccb8b9dce346ce3bf4518066e580d0c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=MRy3r4MJryFDbEvjVIBtg_nE_iqY1a9BgZJLZo7LFrwVWvzKnm2G X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 AUs have an undeservedly bad reputation; they can be a useful tool in your = toolbox. I don't write many AUs either, but as fortune would have it I'm i= n the middle of writing a long story that I'll probably end up labeling an = AU when it's done. The thing doesn't fit into my own established take on T= olkien's world, and I think most people are going to feel it violates some = established Tolkien canon - but the thing insisted on being written, so wha= t's a writer to do? Wield your AU pen proudly! As long as you show you kn= ow what canon is and aren't just breaking things out of ignorance, readers = tend to happily go along with your changes. Ithilwen -----Original Messag= e----- >From: melissa_pch >Sent: Jun 25, 2009 3:32 = AM >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [SilmarillionWri= tersGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin > >Ahahaha! I did not think of that= ... :D Thanks! LOL But I don't often make AU things... Well, I have to, for= this. > >- Rey (wind rider) > >--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups= .com, Diana Nevins wrote: >> >> *whispers the magic wards 'A= U'* >> >> Ithilwen >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: alassante7 = >> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 10:07 PM >> >To: SilmarillionWriter= sGuild@yahoogroups.com >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Question= s about Gondolin >> > >> >Crap. Why do the Valar have to sink everything? *= pouts* >> > >> > >> >--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Diana= Nevins wrote: >> >> >> >> The only parts of Beleriand that sur= vive the War of Wrath are a part of Ossiriand (in the southeast corner), wh= ich is renamed Lindon in the Second Age, and the tip of the Hill of Himring= . Everything else sank under the waves, so if you want to visit Gondolin = after the Frist Age, you'll need scuba gear. >> >> >> >> Ithilwen >> >> >= > >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >From: Alassante7 >> >>= >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8:32 PM >> >> >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild >> >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild]= Questions about Gondolin >> >> > >> >> >Would the location of Gondolin hav= e been completely destroyed during the War of the Wrath? If not, where woul= d it be in the Second Age and after? >> >> > >> >> >~~**~~ I warn you, if = you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien= =C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0 =C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0..=C3=83=C2=82= =C3=82=C2=B7*=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A8=C3=83=C2=82= =C3=82=C2=A8))=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0 -:=C3=83=C2= =82=C3=82=C2=A6:- >> >> >=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0= =C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0=C3= =83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0 =C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=B8.=C3= =83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0 .=C3= =83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A8=C3=83= =C2=82=C3=82=C2=A8))=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0-:|:-= =C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0 >> >> >=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=B0=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82= =C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=BA=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=B0 >> >= > >=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0= -:=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A6:-=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2= =A0=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0 ((=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=B8=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2= =B8.=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=B4*=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2= =A0 -:|:- >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2748 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27762 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 14:20:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 14:20:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.91) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 14:20:45 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 37797 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Jun 2009 14:19:44 -0000 Message-ID: <698646.37729.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 4MtTIwsVM1noRJ.FXaIbeKQQdZXmwTBOfPCPtMBdd0msvuI5AqD9SWJ4ccYYgGqtIOFPMNJVD4r7uwPAvXESf.4aXBzVO42AeO6_JwXoE1xr.qHPNYyF9_AgfNk2P3N0eeCjmFRcgAo82gqbyo_G9E4pkwtXfr7EKvva0l4SYw_E.yjA3qVg0tGG1V0_S5aWr3saR3_JAtOtsy3P4WSk620anVxrNY1RUXYwXxRTEGSh7Qxh5e8FeRXS7rS6tH55TTl3xGhOhT3e8HYMKyyOifD61UxsTGPhjCjifuWVuiRSWcU02gYjZXjQlFJBfLSuJggLkrTlrdtv75A05FVHNpe7nMZdUxDhUnw6AbQ- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:19:44 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.17 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:19:44 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1795173371-1245939584=:37729" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=3xS7ynfplrtPTYH4sXPIlQGBEBnuOOGG2WVNQoVtvSe68TcA4w X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1795173371-1245939584=:37729 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Exactly! I'm writing a big WIP that is AU (LOTR verse not Silm). Its a 'wha= t if' story. But I've stuck closely to canon in most of the story. My story= is based on what if the ring hadn't been destroyed due to Aragorn not walk= ing the Paths of the Dead (because of a simple change of events not him bei= ng too chicken to do it) The first part of the story is about the tragic ev= ents in M-E and Valinor that happened because Sauron regained his power. Bu= t once I got back to Third Age War of the Ring - I stuck to canon in the ev= ents and worked my OFC into the events rather than having her disrupt the e= vents (except the one she was supposed to disrupt - Aragorn walking the Pat= hs of the Dead) =A0 I've read a few 'what if so and so lived' stories that= were handled really well and the story was great. It's all in the handling= of things though. Boromir living and ending up taking away the wonderful a= nd brave deeds that Faramir, Eomer,=A0or Aragorn did in the war would be a = hard pill to swallow for most. =A0 AU gets a bad rap because there are peop= le who write it just so they can fix it their way. Perhaps they decide they= cannot stand Arwen so they write a story about Elrond,=A0his sons and Arag= orn but Arwen just doesn't exist and when you point it out to her that 'hey= , Arwen was in Imladris at that time' they reply back "So? Its marked AU." = Or when they make Elrohir, Elladan, Legolas, and Aragorn all the same age. = (yes I've read that story) So AU because you want to write a new twist on t= he events is good. AU because you just feel like changing Tolkien's writing= so much that it's not even the same story...not so much. =3D0)=A0 ~~*= *~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien = =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7= =B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0= -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Diana Nev= ins wrote: From: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin= To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009= , 9:52 AM AUs have an undeservedly bad reputation; they can be a us= eful tool in your toolbox. I don't write many AUs either, but as fortune wo= uld have it I'm in the middle of writing a long story that I'll probably en= d up labeling an AU when it's done. The thing doesn't fit into my own estab= lished take on Tolkien's world, and I think most people are going to feel i= t violates some established Tolkien canon - but the thing insisted on being= written, so what's a writer to do? Wield your AU pen proudly! As long as y= ou show you know what canon is and aren't just breaking things out of ignor= ance, readers tend to happily go along with your changes. Ithilwen -----O= riginal Message----- >From: melissa_pch >Sent: Jun= 25, 2009 3:32 AM >To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com >Subject:= [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin > >Ahahaha! I did= not think of that... :D Thanks! LOL But I don't often make AU things... We= ll, I have to, for this. > >- Rey (wind rider) > >--- In SilmarillionWriter= s Guild@yahoogroup s.com, Diana Nevins wrote: >> >> *whispe= rs the magic wards 'AU'* >> >> Ithilwen >> >> -----Original Message----- = >> >From: alassante7 >> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 10:07 PM >> >= To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWr= iter sGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin >> > >> >Crap. Why do the Valar h= ave to sink everything? *pouts* >> > >> > >> >--- In SilmarillionWriters Gu= ild@yahoogroup s.com, Diana Nevins wrote: >> >> >> >> The only = parts of Beleriand that survive the War of Wrath are a part of Ossiriand (i= n the southeast corner), which is renamed Lindon in the Second Age, and the= tip of the Hill of Himring. Everything else sank under the waves, so if yo= u want to visit Gondolin after the Frist Age, you'll need scuba gear. >> >>= >> >> Ithilwen >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >From: Alass= ante7 >> >> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8:32 PM >> >> >To: Silmarill= ionWriters Guild >> >> >Subjec= t: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Questions about Gondolin >> >> > >> >> >Woul= d the location of Gondolin have been completely destroyed during the War of= the Wrath? If not, where would it be in the Second Age and after? >> >> > = >> >> >~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C3=C2=A0= JRR Tolkien =C3=C2=A0 =C3=C2=A0..=C3=C2=B7*=C3=C2=B4=C3=C2=A8=C3=C2=A8))= =C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0 -:=C3=C2=A6:- >> >> >=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2= =A0=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0 =C3=C2=B8.=C3=C2=B7=C3=C2=B4=C3=C2=A0 .=C3= =C2=B7=C3=C2=B4=C3=C2=A8=C3=C2=A8))=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0-:|:-=C3=C2=A0 >> >> >= =C3=C2=B0=C3=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C3=C2=BA=C3=C2=B0 >> >> >=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2= =A0=C3=C2=A0 -:=C3=C2=A6:-=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0 ((=C3=C2=B8=C3=C2=B8.= =C3=C2=B7=C3=C2=B4*=C3=C2=A0 -:|:- >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > = >> > > --0-1795173371-1245939584=:37729 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Exactly! I'm writing a big WIP that is A= U (LOTR verse not Silm). Its a 'what if' story. But I've stuck closely to c= anon in most of the story. My story is based on what if the ring hadn't bee= n destroyed due to Aragorn not walking the Paths of the Dead (because of a = simple change of events not him being too chicken to do it) The first part = of the story is about the tragic events in M-E and Valinor that happened be= cause Sauron regained his power. But once I got back to Third Age War of th= e Ring - I stuck to canon in the events and worked my OFC into the events r= ather than having her disrupt the events (except the one she was supposed t= o disrupt - Aragorn walking the Paths of the Dead)
 
=
I've read a few 'what if so and so lived' stories that were handled r= eally well and the story was great. It's all in the handling of things thou= gh. Boromir living and ending up taking away the wonderful and brave deeds = that Faramir, Eomer, or Aragorn did in the war would be a hard pill to= swallow for most.
 
AU gets a bad rap because t= here are people who write it just so they can fix it their way. Perhaps the= y decide they cannot stand Arwen so they write a story about Elrond, h= is sons and Aragorn but Arwen just doesn't exist and when you point it out = to her that 'hey, Arwen was in Imladris at that time' they reply back "So? = Its marked AU." Or when they make Elrohir, Elladan, Legolas, and Aragorn al= l the same age. (yes I've read that story) So AU because you want to write = a new twist on the events is good. AU because you just feel like c= hanging Tolkien's writing so much that it's not even the same story...not s= o much. =3D0) 

~~**~~
= I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. =
JRR Tolkien
=
 
=
=
 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))&= nbsp;  -:=A6:-
     &nb= sp;  =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante ..
    -:=A6:-  &nb= sp; ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-
=
<= /DIV>


--- On Thu, 6/25/09, Diana Nevins <= ;dlnevins@earthlink.net> wrote:

Fr= om: Diana Nevins
Subject: Re: [Silmarilli= onWritersGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin
To: SilmarillionWritersGuil= d@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:52 AM

AUs have an undeservedly bad re= putation; they can be a useful tool in your toolbox. I don't write many AUs= either, but as fortune would have it I'm in the middle of writing a long s= tory that I'll probably end up labeling an AU when it's done. The thing doe= sn't fit into my own established take on Tolkien's world, and I think most = people are going to feel it violates some established Tolkien canon - but t= he thing insisted on being written, so what's a writer to do? Wield your AU= pen proudly! As long as you show you know what canon is and aren't just br= eaking things out of ignorance, readers tend to happily go along with your = changes.

Ithilwen

-----Original Message-----
>From: mel= issa_pch <melissa_pch@ yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jun 25, 200= 9 3:32 AM
>To: Silmaril= lionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com
>Subject: [SilmarillionWriter = sGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin
>
>Ahahaha! I did not thin= k of that... :D Thanks! LOL But I don't often make AU things... Well, I hav= e to, for this.
>
>- Rey (wind rider)
>
>--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogr= oup s.com, Diana Nevins wrote:
>>
>= ;> *whispers the magic wards 'AU'*
>>
>> Ithilwen
= >>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: alas= sante7
>> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 10:07 PM=
>> >To: Silmarill= ionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com
>> >Subject: [Silmarillio= nWriter sGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin
>> >
>> &= gt;Crap. Why do the Valar have to sink everything? *pouts*
>> >=
>> >
>> >--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, Diana Nevins &l= t;dlnevins@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The only p= arts of Beleriand that survive the War of Wrath are a part of Ossiriand (in= the southeast corner), which is renamed Lindon in the Second Age, and the= tip of the Hill of Himring. Everything else sank under the waves, so if yo= u want to visit Gondolin after the Frist Age, you'll need scuba gear.
&g= t;> >>
>> >> Ithilwen
>> >>
>= ;> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: Al= assante7
>> >> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8= :32 PM
>> >> >To: SilmarillionWriters Guild <silmarillionwriters guild@yahoogroup = s.com>
>> >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild]= Questions about Gondolin
>> >> >
>> >> &g= t;Would the location of Gondolin have been completely destroyed during the = War of the Wrath? If not, where would it be in the Second Age and after?>> >> >
>> >> >~~**~~ I warn you, if you= bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C3=C2  JRR Tolkien =C3=C2  =C3= =C2 ..=C3=C2=B7*=C3=C2=B4=C3=C2=A8=C3=C2=A8))=C3=C2 =C3=C2  = -:=C3=C2=A6:-
>> >> >=C3=C2 =C3=C2 =C3=C2 = ;=C3=C2 =C3=C2 =C3=C2 =C3=C2  =C3=C2=B8.=C3=C2=B7=C3=C2= =B4=C3=C2  .=C3=C2=B7=C3=C2=B4=C3=C2=A8=C3=C2=A8))=C3=C2 =C3=C2&n= bsp;-:|:-=C3=C2 
>> >> >=C3=C2=B0=C3=C2=BA.. Alassan= te .. =C3=C2=BA=C3=C2=B0
>> >> >=C3=C2 =C3=C2 = =C3=C2  -:=C3=C2=A6:-=C3=C2 =C3=C2 =C3=C2  ((=C3=C2=B8= =C3=C2=B8.=C3=C2=B7=C3=C2=B4*=C3=C2  -:|:-
>> >> >>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
= >> >
>> >
>>
>
>


--0-1795173371-1245939584=:37729-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2749 Return-Path: X-Sender: surgsteel@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80511 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 16:29:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 16:29:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 16:29:57 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 16:29:48 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jun 2009 16:29:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:29:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "surgeon_ruth" Subject: Re: Mod Post: Intermittent Internet Access for Dawn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=328688752; y=iKlcQKktZm7K-I3hYAe-RcvZkvQdXreZChFVbdxLTHfeUHvFECZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: surgeon_ruth Have fun! --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund <= DawnFelagund@...> wrote: > > Hi, everyone, > > Beginning tonight, my Inter= net access will be intermittent at best until 7 > July. I will be on vacati= on, and while we'll have Internet access at our > B&B, I don't know how goo= d it will be or how often I'm going to be online. > > Usually, I welcome S= WG-related correspondence at both my private email > account and at the mod= erator email account. However, until 7 July, if you > need urgent assistanc= e with something, please email moderator AT > silmarillionwritersguild DOT = org. This address reaches multiple moderators, > so you're more likely to g= et a speedy reply from it than from emailing me > personally. Non-urgent em= ails relating to the group are, as always, welcome > at my private email ac= count, just please understand that I may not be able > to answer quickly, o= r at all until 7 July. > > Take care, everyone, and don't break teh Interw= ebz while I am gone. :) > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http:/= /themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2750 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32152 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2009 22:20:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2009 22:20:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web38503.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.125.49) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2009 22:20:43 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 1341 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Jun 2009 22:20:43 -0000 Message-ID: <326298.492.qm@web38503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: qBCinWgVM1mSluG1tsD5cyxJO.l7pB960P73YWrCR6SCBFdlzWCbI940UmgtoAA_6JG0C0OGj8NBJB_hMy5q8TW8vmTzU3LqC_RySAZz7Q.2H98j3zHCbFQtqL6JCI18YVkdjQ8LkzgOzJGJ7PlWyvvCxf9O7UYE8Os_eQ6LbSijx2hTRuKjg0iIRRJa6_cImOYMCiMQNysQrRjhdPdNMwCR6v6TJJs4OGcPPeHNB6Lk9Hn9Y6fumnbhHOMcU_9dauOQ98WwW1P0iiCmjvXmN2UMrigcMPg0BhwkmjxYxUc4j.gfd2wq6FibRN1y6S4N_0sP1cbREEBjwIWjIH8reUawTL8C87lpAlEqGNmYH.YUvjOw X-Received: from [190.191.99.82] by web38503.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:20:42 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.43 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 References: Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:20:42 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1692255009-1245968442=:492" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Angelica Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Welcome Rey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=hi4kKHfQgLWvBZ9Epnp0SIC3BiYqJrwGFHo3Mb0fc0LO4h60CABWX2qg X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --0-1692255009-1245968442=:492 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes, the mother is gone (sighs enviously) but the aunts stayed at home (more envious sighs) so anything you need... I hope you enjoy yourself with us Angelica ________________________________ From: melissa_pch To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:44:22 AM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Mod Post: Intermittent Internet Access for Dawn Ahh... I joined when the mother of the site was gone... Well, happy holiday, Dawn! :) I am trying to acquaint myself with both the LJ community and this Yahoo Group, so pardon me if this message is somehow wrongly-sent or weird. LOL - Rey (wind rider, in SWG site) --- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, everyone, > > Beginning tonight, my Internet access will be intermittent at best until 7 > July. I will be on vacation, and while we'll have Internet access at our > B&B, I don't know how good it will be or how often I'm going to be online. > > Usually, I welcome SWG-related correspondence at both my private email > account and at the moderator email account. However, until 7 July, if you > need urgent assistance with something, please email moderator AT > silmarillionwriters guild DOT org. This address reaches multiple moderators, > so you're more likely to get a speedy reply from it than from emailing me > personally. Non-urgent emails relating to the group are, as always, welcome > at my private email account, just please understand that I may not be able > to answer quickly, or at all until 7 July. > > Take care, everyone, and don't break teh Interwebz while I am gone. :) > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > --0-1692255009-1245968442=:492 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Yes, the mother is gone (sighs enviously) but the aunts stayed at home (more envious sighs) so anything you need...
I hope you enjoy yourself with us
Angelica

From: melissa_pch
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:44:22 AM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Mod Post: Intermittent Internet Access for Dawn

Ahh... I joined when the mother of the site was gone... Well, happy holiday, Dawn! :) I am trying to acquaint myself with both the LJ community and this Yahoo Group, so pardon me if this message is somehow wrongly-sent or weird. LOL

- Rey (wind rider, in SWG site)

--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, Dawn Felagund wrote:
>
> Hi, everyone,
>
> Beginning tonight, my Internet access will be intermittent at best until 7
> July. I will be on vacation, and while we'll have Internet access at our
> B&B, I don't know how good it will be or how often I'm going to be online.
>
> Usually, I welcome SWG-related correspondence at both my private email
> account and at the moderator email account. However, until 7 July, if you
> need urgent assistance with something, please email moderator AT
> silmarillionwriters guild DOT org. This address reaches multiple moderators,
> so you're more likely to get a speedy reply from it than from emailing me
> personally. Non-urgent emails relating to the group are, as always, welcome
> at my private email account, just please understand that I may not be able
> to answer quickly, or at all until 7 July.
>
> Take care, everyone, and don't break teh Interwebz while I am gone. :)
>
> Dawn
>
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
>


--0-1692255009-1245968442=:492-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2751 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7576 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2009 22:01:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2009 22:01:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f220.google.com) (209.85.219.220) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2009 22:01:12 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ew0-f220.google.com with SMTP id 20so1544627ewy.18 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:01:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.29.9 with SMTP id c9mr225316ebc.18.1246053672130; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:01:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:01:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bdf8a7fa252046d477a36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Mod Post: Intermittent Internet Access for Dawn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=28M3o9iGXZBU891X--mZwqlkDcPTuEEIfPa_NQznUbTCZUenEU_v X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174bdf8a7fa252046d477a36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yep, approving your membership on this list was one of my final acts before departing on holiday! :D Welcome to the group, a bit belatedly! Dawn *waving from Ireland* On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:44 PM, melissa_pch wrote: > > > Ahh... I joined when the mother of the site was gone... Well, happy > holiday, Dawn! :) I am trying to acquaint myself with both the LJ community > and this Yahoo Group, so pardon me if this message is somehow wrongly-sent > or weird. LOL > > - Rey (wind rider, in SWG site) > --0015174bdf8a7fa252046d477a36 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep, approving your membership on this list was one of my final acts before= departing on holiday! :D Welcome to the group, a bit belatedly!

Daw= n

*waving from Ireland*

On Wed, Ju= n 24, 2009 at 11:44 PM, melissa_pch <melissa_pch@yahoo.com> wrote:
=


Ahh.= .. I joined when the mother of the site was gone... Well, happy holiday, Da= wn! :) I am trying to acquaint myself with both the LJ community and this Y= ahoo Group, so pardon me if this message is somehow wrongly-sent or weird. = LOL

- Rey (wind rider, in SWG site)


--0015174bdf8a7fa252046d477a36-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2752 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37264 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2009 23:11:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2009 23:11:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2009 23:11:57 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2009 23:11:54 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2009 23:11:54 -0000 Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:11:54 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Mod Post: Intermittent Internet Access for Dawn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=38qTUvjuBoJKepaTgFm_2Nu-CC5jNivkBJ1T00Z6yYErSjQ7o72QE5hdXTReF5g5I_vOHw X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel I hope you have an absolute blast on your trip, Dawn "huggles". I'll try n= ot to break anthing while you're gon, or trip on any crds, ect. I hope you= have an absolutely wonderful time! You sure deserve it! Roisin --- In Sil= marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wro= te: > > Hi, everyone, > > Beginning tonight, my Internet access will be int= ermittent at best until 7 > July. I will be on vacation, and while we'll ha= ve Internet access at our > B&B, I don't know how good it will be or how of= ten I'm going to be online. > > Usually, I welcome SWG-related corresponden= ce at both my private email > account and at the moderator email account. H= owever, until 7 July, if you > need urgent assistance with something, pleas= e email moderator AT > silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. This address reach= es multiple moderators, > so you're more likely to get a speedy reply from = it than from emailing me > personally. Non-urgent emails relating to the gr= oup are, as always, welcome > at my private email account, just please unde= rstand that I may not be able > to answer quickly, or at all until 7 July. = > > Take care, everyone, and don't break teh Interwebz while I am gone. :) = > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_l= oremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2753 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70770 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2009 06:02:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jun 2009 06:02:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rv-out-0506.google.com) (209.85.198.227) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2009 06:02:04 -0000 X-Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id g37so1003524rvb.33 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:01:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.247.11 with SMTP id u11mr45426rvh.38.1246082463742; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:01:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd106049cbd26046d4e2e56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Fic: Balrog 1/1 Rating: G-Melissa X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=E5KsJ_8tJ7Xxma2pRdvvOHZc32fkDLErDlgo0NFq3Y8R X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --000e0cd106049cbd26046d4e2e56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well it could be that one or maybe not. I have not quite decided if it is or not. It is possible that more than one balrog escaped the War of Wrath and lays hidden beneath the ground. So I left that deliberately ambiguous and for the reader to fill in that blank. I personally like when stories do that and so did that here. :P Fun that way. The shining ones are the bright beings of Iluvatar. They are Valar and elves together I would think to this creature. The elves from Aman marched too and had the light from Aman shining in their countenance and so would shine too. So I think the beings that fought against Morgoth all had the aspect of brightness to this creature. The two entities was something that I really did want to get across. That he is almost two complete personalities shadow and flame. They almost oppose each other. Thanks for reading this story. I had so much fun writing it and horrible as they are, I do think balrogs are very interesting. Cheers. ---jane (phyncke) On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:54 PM, melissa_pch wrote: > > > Great ficlet! :) LOL So a Balrog is formed of two entities, eh? Quite > interesting. Those two seems to work well with each other too, unlike some > other two-dimentioned beings I know. I like how you portrayed the Valar as > the "shining ones." Or did the term pertain to another race altogether? > *blush* Uh-oh... I got the wrong impression, then... > > The Balrog sounded suspiciously like the one Gandalf fought in Moria, by > the way... ;) > > - Rey (wind rider) > > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, > Jane Fink wrote: > > > > Title: Balrog > > > > Author: Phyncke > > > > Fandom: Silmarillion/LOTR > > Beta: Keiliss > > Email: jhfink@... > > > Rating: G > > Pairing: Balrog (unnamed) > > Warnings: none > > Time Frame: War of Wrath and through the subsequent ages. > > > > Disclaimer: These characters do not belong to me. They are the property > of > > the Tolkien estate. I use them here for my own amusement and hopefully > for > > yours at no profit. > > Summary: What does a balrog think in the deep recesses of the earth? > > > > > > > > Balrog > > > > > > > > We are two beings in one and to ourselves we are always two, fire and > > shadow, both darkness and flame. Our power lies in the convergence of > these > > two entities, where they meet and make us whole. Yes, we are strong and > we > > have vanquished many. > > > > > > > > We are alone. Once there were many of us and it was glorious. Then the > earth > > was changed, so we fled to this place, digging deep where we could to > hide > > here and slumber, slumber undisturbed by the creatures of the light and > the > > shining ones who took the Master away into the nothingness. We know he > will > > come again but can not determine it and for now we rest and ponder all > that > > has passed and all that might yet be; glorious past with possibilities > for > > our future. We do not know where our brethren are. Perhaps they are > hidden > > somewhere in the deep places too, waiting as we do for our time to > return. > > > > > > > > Our thoughts wander between waking and sleeping. The fire expands and > > contracts in this space we have made here beneath the ground. Time passes > > unmeasured, days, weeks, months, years, centuries, millennia, we cannot > tell > > how long. > > > > > > > > For now, we rest. > > > > > --000e0cd106049cbd26046d4e2e56 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well it could be that one or maybe not. I have not quite decided if it is o= r not. It is possible that more than one balrog escaped the War of Wrath an= d lays hidden beneath the ground. So I left that deliberately ambiguous and= for the reader to fill in that blank. I personally like when stories do th= at and so did that here. :P Fun that way.

The shining ones are the= bright beings of Iluvatar. They are Valar and elves together I would think= to this creature. The elves from Aman marched too and had the light from A= man shining in their countenance and so would shine too. So I think the bei= ngs that fought against Morgoth all had the aspect of brightness to this cr= eature.

The two entities was something that I really did want to g= et across. That he is almost two complete personalities shadow and flame. T= hey almost oppose each other.

Thanks for reading this story. I had = so much fun writing it and horrible as they are, I do think balrogs are ver= y interesting.

Cheers. ---jane (phyncke)

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:54 PM, melissa_pch &l= t;melissa_pch@yahoo.com> wrote:
=


=

Great ficlet! :) LOL So a Balrog is formed of two entities, = eh? Quite interesting. Those two seems to work well with each other too, un= like some other two-dimentioned beings I know. I like how you portrayed the= Valar as the "shining ones." Or did the term pertain to another = race altogether? *blush* Uh-oh... I got the wrong impression, then...
=
The Balrog sounded suspiciously like the one Gandalf fought in Moria, = by the way... ;)

- Rey (wind rider)



= --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Jane Fink wrote:
>
> Title: Balrog
>
> Au= thor: Phyncke
>
> Fandom: Silmarillion/LOTR
> Beta: K= eiliss
> Email: jhfink@...
> Rating: G
> Pairing: Balrog (unnamed)
> Warnings: non= e
> Time Frame: War of Wrath and through the subsequent ages.
&g= t;
> Disclaimer: These characters do not belong to me. They are the= property of
> the Tolkien estate. I use them here for my own amusem= ent and hopefully for
> yours at no profit.
> Summary: What d= oes a balrog think in the deep recesses of the earth?
>
> >
> Balrog
>
>
>
> We are two = beings in one and to ourselves we are always two, fire and
> shadow,= both darkness and flame. Our power lies in the convergence of these
&g= t; two entities, where they meet and make us whole. Yes, we are strong and = we
> have vanquished many.
>
>
>
> We= are alone. Once there were many of us and it was glorious. Then the earth<= br> > was changed, so we fled to this place, digging deep where we could= to hide
> here and slumber, slumber undisturbed by the creatures of= the light and the
> shining ones who took the Master away into the = nothingness. We know he will
> come again but can not determine it a= nd for now we rest and ponder all that
> has passed and all that mig= ht yet be; glorious past with possibilities for
> our future. We do = not know where our brethren are. Perhaps they are hidden
> somewhere= in the deep places too, waiting as we do for our time to return.
> =
>
>
> Our thoughts wander between waking and sleepi= ng. The fire expands and
> contracts in this space we have made here= beneath the ground. Time passes
> unmeasured, days, weeks, months, = years, centuries, millennia, we cannot tell
> how long.
> >
>
> For now, we rest.
>

=

--000e0cd106049cbd26046d4e2e56-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2754 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48626 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2009 14:01:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jun 2009 14:01:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 14:01:03 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2009 14:00:32 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2009 14:00:32 -0000 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:00:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <698646.37729.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melissa_pch" Subject: Re: Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=hioyVRXejnd3TU_vu5QmCq7YnGgy6p9rnAflHw1eIvKNTClUIyE X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch Hee... I just found out that my story in SWG is AU (because there Ereinion = went to Gondolin first before the Falas). *blush* Mmh. (Umm. I think I hav= e to trust you in this, Ithilwen. LOL I can't read visual maps. :P) So... = Would anyone please explain to me the layout of Gondolin's 'edges'? Yes, I = know of the seven gates, and the passage that was hidden until the city's f= all (although I don't know if the latter was any near to the former), but w= here was Eol thrown over after - rather unintentionally, I suppose - killin= g Aredhal?Where did Turgon build a cairn for his father? - Rey (wind rider= ) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > > Exactly! I'm writing a big WIP that is AU (LOTR verse not S= ilm). Its a 'what if' story. But I've stuck closely to canon in most of the= story. My story is based on what if the ring hadn't been destroyed due to = Aragorn not walking the Paths of the Dead (because of a simple change of ev= ents not him being too chicken to do it) The first part of the story is abo= ut the tragic events in M-E and Valinor that happened because Sauron regain= ed his power. But once I got back to Third Age War of the Ring - I stuck to= canon in the events and worked my OFC into the events rather than having h= er disrupt the events (except the one she was supposed to disrupt - Aragorn= walking the Paths of the Dead) > =A0 > I've read a few 'what if so and so= lived' stories that were handled really well and the story was great. It's= all in the handling of things though. Boromir living and ending up taking = away the wonderful and brave deeds that Faramir, Eomer,=A0or Aragorn did in= the war would be a hard pill to swallow for most. > =A0 > AU gets a bad ra= p because there are people who write it just so they can fix it their way. = Perhaps they decide they cannot stand Arwen so they write a story about Elr= ond,=A0his sons and Aragorn but Arwen just doesn't exist and when you point= it out to her that 'hey, Arwen was in Imladris at that time' they reply ba= ck "So? Its marked AU." Or when they make Elrohir, Elladan, Legolas, and Ar= agorn all the same age. (yes I've read that story) So AU because you want t= o write a new twist on the events is good. AU because you just feel like ch= anging Tolkien's writing so much that it's not even the same story...not so= much. =3D0)=A0 > > > > > > ~~**~~ > I warn you, if you bore me, I sha= ll take my revenge.=A0 > JRR Tolkien > =A0 > > > > > =A0..=B7*=B4=A8= =A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))= =A0=A0-:|:-=A0 > =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 > =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 = ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Diana Nevins wrote: > > > From: Diana Nevins > Subject: Re: [Silma= rillionWritersGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin > To: SilmarillionWriters= Guild@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:52 AM > > > > = > > > > > AUs have an undeservedly bad reputation; they can be a useful= tool in your toolbox. I don't write many AUs either, but as fortune would = have it I'm in the middle of writing a long story that I'll probably end up= labeling an AU when it's done. The thing doesn't fit into my own establish= ed take on Tolkien's world, and I think most people are going to feel it vi= olates some established Tolkien canon - but the thing insisted on being wri= tten, so what's a writer to do? Wield your AU pen proudly! As long as you s= how you know what canon is and aren't just breaking things out of ignorance= , readers tend to happily go along with your changes. > > Ithilwen > > --= ---Original Message----- > >From: melissa_pch > >S= ent: Jun 25, 2009 3:32 AM > >To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com= > >Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin > > >= >Ahahaha! I did not think of that... :D Thanks! LOL But I don't often make= AU things... Well, I have to, for this. > > > >- Rey (wind rider) > > > >-= -- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, Diana Nevins wrote: > >> > >> *whispers the magic wards 'AU'* > >> > >> Ithilwen > >>= > >> -----Original Message----- > >> >From: alassante7 = > >> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 10:07 PM > >> >To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoo= group s.com > >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Re: Questions about = Gondolin > >> > > >> >Crap. Why do the Valar have to sink everything? *pout= s* > >> > > >> > > >> >--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, D= iana Nevins wrote: > >> >> > >> >> The only parts of Beleriand = that survive the War of Wrath are a part of Ossiriand (in the southeast cor= ner), which is renamed Lindon in the Second Age, and the tip of the Hill of= Himring. Everything else sank under the waves, so if you want to visit Gon= dolin after the Frist Age, you'll need scuba gear. > >> >> > >> >> Ithilwe= n > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >From: Alassante7 > >> >> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8:32 PM > >> >> >To: SilmarillionWr= iters Guild > >> >> >Subject: = [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Questions about Gondolin > >> >> > > >> >> >Wou= ld the location of Gondolin have been completely destroyed during the War o= f the Wrath? If not, where would it be in the Second Age and after? > >> >>= > > >> >> >~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C3= =C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C3=C2=A0 =C3=C2=A0..=C3=C2=B7*=C3=C2=B4=C3=C2=A8=C3=C2= =A8))=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0 -:=C3=C2=A6:- > >> >> >=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0= =C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0 =C3=C2=B8.=C3=C2=B7=C3=C2=B4=C3=C2=A0 = .=C3=C2=B7=C3=C2=B4=C3=C2=A8=C3=C2=A8))=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0-:|:-=C3=C2=A0 > >= > >> >=C3=C2=B0=C3=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C3=C2=BA=C3=C2=B0 > >> >> >=C3=C2= =A0=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0 -:=C3=C2=A6:-=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0=C3=C2=A0 ((=C3=C2=B8= =C3=C2=B8.=C3=C2=B7=C3=C2=B4*=C3=C2=A0 -:|:- > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > = > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2755 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59112 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2009 14:15:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jun 2009 14:15:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 14:15:11 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2009 14:14:54 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jun 2009 14:14:54 -0000 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:14:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <326298.492.qm@web38503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melissa_pch" Subject: Re: Welcome Rey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=KY0A56toG7xmL4NoMxmW33u9Mr13zNte5JsLAAX7xlKP9iMxlIk X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch Thanks! :D Well, glad that the aunts are still around. ;) Mmm. I envy Dawn = too... She is on holiday while I am struggling with the last part of my und= ergraduate essay. :P LOL *wave to Dawn and everyone* I hope I can participa= te in everything that is going on around well, given my clumsiness with onl= ine matters. - Rey (wind rider) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogrou= ps.com, Angelica wrote: > > Yes, the mother is gone (= sighs enviously) but the aunts stayed at home (more envious sighs) so anyth= ing you need... > I hope you enjoy yourself with us > Angelica > > > > = > ________________________________ > From: melissa_pch > = To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 200= 9 12:44:22 AM > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Mod Post: Intermitt= ent Internet Access for Dawn > > > > > > Ahh... I joined when the moth= er of the site was gone... Well, happy holiday, Dawn! :) I am trying to acq= uaint myself with both the LJ community and this Yahoo Group, so pardon me = if this message is somehow wrongly-sent or weird. LOL > > - Rey (wind ride= r, in SWG site) > > --- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, Daw= n Felagund wrote: > > > > Hi, everyone, > > > > Beginn= ing tonight, my Internet access will be intermittent at best until 7 > > Ju= ly. I will be on vacation, and while we'll have Internet access at our > > = B&B, I don't know how good it will be or how often I'm going to be online. = > > > > Usually, I welcome SWG-related correspondence at both my private e= mail > > account and at the moderator email account. However, until 7 July,= if you > > need urgent assistance with something, please email moderator A= T > > silmarillionwriters guild DOT org. This address reaches multiple mode= rators, > > so you're more likely to get a speedy reply from it than from e= mailing me > > personally. Non-urgent emails relating to the group are, as = always, welcome > > at my private email account, just please understand tha= t I may not be able > > to answer quickly, or at all until 7 July. > > > >= Take care, everyone, and don't break teh Interwebz while I am gone. :) > >= > > Dawn > > > > -- > > ~oOo~ > > Dawn Felagund > > http://themidhavens= .net/heretic_loremaster/ > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > > > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2756 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52017 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2009 17:57:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jun 2009 17:57:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jun 2009 17:57:52 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 36459 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jun 2009 17:57:37 -0000 Message-ID: <918705.35598.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 0qtB5PcVM1lZf9rNeS_WsKeZ9iluWCY8QZx.t1xbiBOwiG7LNbViv6mIEd447Hs4nx.mJJljS1p0YVvlRqH6_lSVax29Ehy1OHjO4EyqbFW8eWWmuTsEdNK2U7vOlAwrjZ59oaipJxE7kMKSZ1xAmM.07yBmjVp03Qm0TLMWGeLBtLWMQCrXiBRXGYEdo50ONlhox6xgvCpSYW6Q6eVDyeF2kVBVJu8JOC6jnvsohxuA4xKS_sQvZkwarPmHWL7xYUcZv7lNa0H5l56MhUySY3g3aDc0.p8bRvdbh8s9YZyeaYrmSUkrml3.Fhkt_65sOmeA.LWZpm2ktolp X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:57:37 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.17 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:57:37 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, SoA , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1281679326-1246211857=:35598" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: ALEC's..::July's Theme: Of the Sun and Moon::.. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=c7ITkA7hUB-91kD8bkm7YON25spCL3uOPSxN8wv5vFwvv7xQmQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1281679326-1246211857=:35598 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable July's Theme: Of the Sun and Moon Isil the Sheen the Vanyar of old named= the Moon, flower of Telperion in Valinor; and Anar the Fire-golden, fruit = of Laurelin, they named the Sun. But the Noldor named them also R=E1na, the= Wayward, and V=E1sa, the Heart of Fire, that awakens and consumes; for the= Sun was set as a sign for the awakening of Men and the waning of the Elves= , but the Moon cherishes their memory. The maiden whom the Valar chose f= rom among the Maiar to guide the vessel of the Sun was named Arien, and he = that steered the island of the Moon was Tilion. In the days of the Trees Ar= ien had tended the golden flowers in the gardens of V=E1na, and watered the= m with the bright dews of Laurelin; but Tilion was a hunter of the company = of Orom=E1, and he had a silver bow. He was a lover of silver, and when he = would rest he forsook the woods of Orom=E1, and going into L=E1rien he lay = hi dream by the pools of Est=E1, in Telperion's flickering beams; and he be= gged to be given the task of tending for ever the last Flower of Silver. Ar= ien the maiden was mightier than he, and she was chosen because she had not= feared the heats of Laurelin, and was unhurt by them, being from the begin= ning a spirit of fire, whom Melkor had not deceived nor drawn to his servic= e. Too bright were the eyes of Arien for even the Eldar to look on, and lea= ving Valinor she forsook the form and raiment which like the Valar she had = worn there, and she was as a naked flame, terrible in the fullness of her s= plendour. Isil was first wrought and made ready, and first rose into the= realm of the stars, and was the elder of the new lights, as was Telperion = of the Trees. Then for a while the world had moonlight, and many things sti= rred and woke that had waited long in the sleep of Yavanna. The servants of= Morgoth were filled with amazement, but the Elves of the Outer Lands looke= d up in delight; and even as the Moon rose above the darkness in the west, = Fingolfin let blow his silver trumpets and began his march into Middle-eart= h, and the shadows of his host went long and black before them. Tilion h= ad traversed the heaven seven times, and thus was m the furthest east, when= the vessel of Arien was made ready. Then Anar arose in glory, and the firs= t dawn of the Sun was like a great fire upon the towers of the Pel=F3ri: th= e clouds of Middle-earth were kindled, and there was heard the sound of man= y waterfalls. Then indeed Morgoth was dismayed, and he descended into the u= ttermost depths of Angband, and withdrew his servants, sending forth great = reek and dark cloud to hide his land from the light of the Day-star. Now= Varda purposed that the two vessels should journey in Ilmen and ever be al= oft, but not together; each should pass from Valinor into the east and retu= rn, the one issuing from the west as the other turned from the east. Thus t= he first of the new days were reckoned after the manner of the Trees, from = the mingling of the lights when Arien and Tilion passed in then- courses, a= bove the middle of the Earth. But Tilion was wayward and uncertain in speed= , and held not to his appointed path; and he sought to come near to Arien, = being drawn by her splendour, though the flame of Anar scorched him, and th= e island of the Moon was darkened. Silmarillion, Chapter 11 ~ Of the Sun an= d Moon and the Hiding of ValinorJ.R.R. Tolkien The theme for July is Of th= e Sun and Moon. I have always loved the story of their creation and wanted = to share it with those of you that haven't read=A0 the Silmarillion yet. An= d for those that have, its to serve as inspiration for July's theme! Your= fiction does not have to be based on the creation of either the sun or the= moon, or Silmarillion based. The story just has to feature either the sun,= the moon, or both as a key element. It also does not have to be based on d= ocumented events or characters in the books. Each writer has until July 31s= t to turn in the story to alec_votecoordinator@yahoo.com. Note - I have c= hanged the email address to the same address as voting due to some confusio= n of where to send things. SEND ALL STORIES AND VOTES TO alec_votecoordinat= or@yahoo.com. Please include the proper formatting for LJ. If you have any = questions about how to do that, feel free to ask. Good luck and happy writ= ing! http://community.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/ http://groups.yahoo.com/gr= oup/A_Long_Expected_Contest/ ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall = take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 = -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 = =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0= -:|:- --0-1281679326-1246211857=:35598 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

July's Theme: Of= the Sun and Moon

<= /div>


Isil the Sheen the Va= nyar of old named the Moon, flower of Telperion in Valinor; and Anar the Fi= re-golden, fruit of Laurelin, they named the Sun. But the Noldor named them= also R=E1na, the Wayward, and V<= i>=E1sa, the Heart of Fire, that awakens and consu= mes; for the Sun was set as a sign for the awakening of Men and the waning = of the Elves, but the Moon cherishes their memory.


The maiden whom the Valar chose from among the Maiar to guide t= he vessel of the Sun was named Arien, and he that steered the island of the= Moon was Tilion. In the days of the Trees Arien had tended the golden flow= ers in the gardens of V=E1na, and watere= d them with the bright dews of Laurelin; but Tilion was a hunter of the com= pany of Orom=E1, and he had a silver bow= . He was a lover of silver, and when he would rest he forsook the woods of = Orom=E1, and going into L=E1rien he lay hi dream by the pools of Est= =E1, in Telperion's flickering beams; and he begge= d to be given the task of tending for ever the last Flower of Silver. Arien= the maiden was mightier than he, and she was chosen because she had not fe= ared the heats of Laurelin, and was unhurt by them, being from the beginnin= g a spirit of fire, whom Melkor had not deceived nor drawn to his service. = Too bright were the eyes of Arien for even the Eldar to look on, and leavin= g Valinor she forsook the form and raiment which like the Valar she had wor= n there, and she was as a naked flame, terrible in the fullness of her sple= ndour.

<= /div>


Isil was first wro= ught and made ready, and first rose into the realm of the stars, and was th= e elder of the new lights, as was Telperion of the Trees. Then for a while = the world had moonlight, and many things stirred and woke that had waited l= ong in the sleep of Yavanna. The servants of Morgoth were filled with amaze= ment, but the Elves of the Outer Lands looked up in delight; and even as th= e Moon rose above the darkness in the west, Fingolfin let blow his silver t= rumpets and began his march into Middle-earth, and the shadows of his host = went long and black before them.


Tilion had traversed the heaven seven times, and thus was m the = furthest east, when the vessel of Arien was made ready. Then Anar arose in = glory, and the first dawn of the Sun was like a great fire upon the towers = of the Pel=F3ri: the clouds of Middle-earth wer= e kindled, and there was heard the sound of many waterfalls. Then indeed Mo= rgoth was dismayed, and he descended into the uttermost depths of Angband, = and withdrew his servants, sending forth great reek and dark cloud to hide = his land from the light of the Day-star.


Now Varda purposed that the two vessels should journey in I= lmen and ever be aloft, but not together; each should pass from Valinor int= o the east and return, the one issuing from the west as the other turned fr= om the east. Thus the first of the new days were reckoned after the manner = of the Trees, from the mingling of the lights when Arien and Tilion passed = in then- courses, above the middle of the Earth. But Tilion was wayward and= uncertain in speed, and held not to his appointed path; and he sought to c= ome near to Arien, being drawn by her splendour, though the flame of Anar s= corched him, and the island of the Moon was darkened.


Silmarillion, Chapter 11 ~ Of the S= un and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor

J.R.R. To= lkien



The theme for July is Of the Sun and Moon. I have always loved the story of their creation and wanted to share it = with those of you that haven't read  the Silmarillion yet. And for tho= se that have, its to serve as inspiration for July's theme!

=


Your fiction does n= ot have to be based on the creation of either the sun or the moon, or Silma= rillion based. The story just has to feature either the sun, the moon, or b= oth as a key element. It also does not have to be based on documente= d events or characters in the books. Each writer has until July 31st to turn in the story to alec_votecoordinator@yahoo.com.


Note - I have changed the email address to the same addres= s as voting due to some confusion of where to send things. SEND ALL STORIES= AND VOTES TO alec_votecoordinator@yahoo.com.


Please include the = proper formatting for LJ. If you have any questions about how to do that, f= eel free to ask.

Good luck and happy writing!



http://com= munity.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Exp= ected_Contest/


~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge= . 
JRR Tolkien
 =
<= div>
 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:- <= /strong>
        =B8.=B7=B4  .= =B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante= = .. = =BA=B0
    -:=A6:-  = ;  ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-

--0-1281679326-1246211857=:35598-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2757 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44217 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2009 02:25:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jun 2009 02:25:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.69) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jun 2009 02:25:42 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.51] (helo=mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ML6Yw-00069H-C6 for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:25:42 -0400 X-Received: from 68.13.53.230 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:25:42 -0400 Message-ID: <27117303.1246242342381.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:25:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791c310c967350ebdd8a6a3524e557be09350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=ld3QCUaVh-perNIomt2THhgJTbpbNy2t9R40fQLiIXlpPl58WdJD X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 The exact layout of the Gates is something I think you have to fake; to my = knowledge, there's no exact layout of them given anywhere. Probably the be= st description can be found in "Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin" in Unfi= nished Tales. Ithilwen -----Original Message----- >From: melissa_pch >Sent: Jun 28, 2009 9:00 AM >To: SilmarillionWritersGui= ld@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Questions about= Gondolin > >Hee... I just found out that my story in SWG is AU (because th= ere Ereinion went to Gondolin first before the Falas). *blush* Mmh. > >(Umm= . I think I have to trust you in this, Ithilwen. LOL I can't read visual ma= ps. :P) > >So... Would anyone please explain to me the layout of Gondolin's= 'edges'? Yes, I know of the seven gates, and the passage that was hidden u= ntil the city's fall (although I don't know if the latter was any near to t= he former), but where was Eol thrown over after - rather unintentionally, I= suppose - killing Aredhal?Where did Turgon build a cairn for his father? >= >- Rey (wind rider) > >--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Al= assante7 wrote: >> >> Exactly! I'm writing a big WIP that = is AU (LOTR verse not Silm). Its a 'what if' story. But I've stuck closely = to canon in most of the story. My story is based on what if the ring hadn't= been destroyed due to Aragorn not walking the Paths of the Dead (because o= f a simple change of events not him being too chicken to do it) The first p= art of the story is about the tragic events in M-E and Valinor that happene= d because Sauron regained his power. But once I got back to Third Age War o= f the Ring - I stuck to canon in the events and worked my OFC into the even= ts rather than having her disrupt the events (except the one she was suppos= ed to disrupt - Aragorn walking the Paths of the Dead) >> =C2=A0 >> I've r= ead a few 'what if so and so lived' stories that were handled really well a= nd the story was great. It's all in the handling of things though. Boromir = living and ending up taking away the wonderful and brave deeds that Faramir= , Eomer,=C2=A0or Aragorn did in the war would be a hard pill to swallow for= most. >> =C2=A0 >> AU gets a bad rap because there are people who write it= just so they can fix it their way. Perhaps they decide they cannot stand A= rwen so they write a story about Elrond,=C2=A0his sons and Aragorn but Arwe= n just doesn't exist and when you point it out to her that 'hey, Arwen was = in Imladris at that time' they reply back "So? Its marked AU." Or when they= make Elrohir, Elladan, Legolas, and Aragorn all the same age. (yes I've re= ad that story) So AU because you want to write a new twist on the events is= good. AU because you just feel like changing Tolkien's writing so much tha= t it's not even the same story...not so much. =3D0)=C2=A0 >> >> >> >> >= > >> ~~**~~ >> I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 = >> JRR Tolkien >> =C2=A0 >> >> >> >> >> =C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2= =A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2= =A0 >> =C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0 >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2= =A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- >> >> ---= On Thu, 6/25/09, Diana Nevins wrote: >> >> >> From: Diana= Nevins >> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Quest= ions about Gondolin >> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com >> Date= : Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:52 AM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> AUs h= ave an undeservedly bad reputation; they can be a useful tool in your toolb= ox. I don't write many AUs either, but as fortune would have it I'm in the = middle of writing a long story that I'll probably end up labeling an AU whe= n it's done. The thing doesn't fit into my own established take on Tolkien'= s world, and I think most people are going to feel it violates some establi= shed Tolkien canon - but the thing insisted on being written, so what's a w= riter to do? Wield your AU pen proudly! As long as you show you know what c= anon is and aren't just breaking things out of ignorance, readers tend to h= appily go along with your changes. >> >> Ithilwen >> >> -----Original Mes= sage----- >> >From: melissa_pch >> >Sent: Jun 25, = 2009 3:32 AM >> >To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com >> >Subject= : [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin >> > >> >Ahahaha= ! I did not think of that... :D Thanks! LOL But I don't often make AU thing= s... Well, I have to, for this. >> > >> >- Rey (wind rider) >> > >> >--- In= SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, Diana Nevins wro= te: >> >> >> >> *whispers the magic wards 'AU'* >> >> >> >> Ithilwen >> >>= >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >From: alassante7 >> >> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 10:07 PM >> >> >To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@y= ahoogroup s.com >> >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Re: Questions a= bout Gondolin >> >> > >> >> >Crap. Why do the Valar have to sink everything= ? *pouts* >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogrou= p s.com, Diana Nevins wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> The only parts o= f Beleriand that survive the War of Wrath are a part of Ossiriand (in the s= outheast corner), which is renamed Lindon in the Second Age, and the tip of= the Hill of Himring. Everything else sank under the waves, so if you want = to visit Gondolin after the Frist Age, you'll need scuba gear. >> >> >> >>= >> >> Ithilwen >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> >Fro= m: Alassante7 >> >> >> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8:32 PM >> >> >> = >To: SilmarillionWriters Guild = >> >> >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Questions about Gondolin >>= >> >> > >> >> >> >Would the location of Gondolin have been completely dest= royed during the War of the Wrath? If not, where would it be in the Second = Age and after? >> >> >> > >> >> >> >~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I sh= all take my revenge.=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 =C3= =83=C3=82=C2=A0..=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B7*=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A8=C3= =83=C3=82=C2=A8))=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 -:=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A6:= - >> >> >> >=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83= =C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 =C3=83= =C3=82=C2=B8.=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 .=C3=83= =C3=82=C2=B7=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A8=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A8))=C3=83= =C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0-:|:-=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 >> >> >> >=C3=83=C3= =82=C2=B0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C3=83=C3=82=C2=BA=C3=83=C3=82= =C2=B0 >> >> >> >=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 -:= =C3=83=C3=82=C2=A6:-=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 = ((=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B8=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B8.=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B4= *=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 -:|:- >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >= >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2758 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95669 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2009 02:45:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jun 2009 02:45:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jun 2009 02:45:13 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2009 02:44:51 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.14] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2009 02:44:51 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 02:44:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <27117303.1246242342381.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melissa_pch" Subject: Re: Questions about Gondolin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=vvuF4CIBEOS_sI2GUrA8cY66QZS-iMp-dRc7L5GHu9QB9dfHy3Q X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch *grimace* *hands up* All right, I haven't read the Unfinished Tales. :embar= rassed: But well, from what I heard and also read from the fics which used = it... It was true. I think there Tolkien described more of the interior of = the city and the fall... Meh. Thanks for the reference, still. I think I fo= rgot it some time after I had read the fics. I ought to read UT some time s= oon... Oops. Forgot something. Could someone please give me the years of t= he Battle of Unnumbered Tears, Turo's coming to city and the Fall of Gondol= in? Thanks in advance... - Rey (wind rider) --- In SilmarillionWritersGui= ld@yahoogroups.com, Diana Nevins wrote: > > The exact layout= of the Gates is something I think you have to fake; to my knowledge, there= 's no exact layout of them given anywhere. Probably the best description c= an be found in "Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin" in Unfinished Tales. > = > Ithilwen > > -----Original Message----- > >From: melissa_pch > >Sent: Jun 28, 2009 9:00 AM > >To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo= groups.com > >Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Questions about Gondo= lin > > > >Hee... I just found out that my story in SWG is AU (because ther= e Ereinion went to Gondolin first before the Falas). *blush* Mmh. > > > >(U= mm. I think I have to trust you in this, Ithilwen. LOL I can't read visual = maps. :P) > > > >So... Would anyone please explain to me the layout of Gond= olin's 'edges'? Yes, I know of the seven gates, and the passage that was hi= dden until the city's fall (although I don't know if the latter was any nea= r to the former), but where was Eol thrown over after - rather unintentiona= lly, I suppose - killing Aredhal?Where did Turgon build a cairn for his fat= her? > > > >- Rey (wind rider) > > > >--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo= groups.com, Alassante7 wrote: > >> > >> Exactly! I'm writing = a big WIP that is AU (LOTR verse not Silm). Its a 'what if' story. But I've= stuck closely to canon in most of the story. My story is based on what if = the ring hadn't been destroyed due to Aragorn not walking the Paths of the = Dead (because of a simple change of events not him being too chicken to do = it) The first part of the story is about the tragic events in M-E and Valin= or that happened because Sauron regained his power. But once I got back to = Third Age War of the Ring - I stuck to canon in the events and worked my OF= C into the events rather than having her disrupt the events (except the one= she was supposed to disrupt - Aragorn walking the Paths of the Dead) > >>= =C2=A0 > >> I've read a few 'what if so and so lived' stories that were ha= ndled really well and the story was great. It's all in the handling of thin= gs though. Boromir living and ending up taking away the wonderful and brave= deeds that Faramir, Eomer,=C2=A0or Aragorn did in the war would be a hard = pill to swallow for most. > >> =C2=A0 > >> AU gets a bad rap because there = are people who write it just so they can fix it their way. Perhaps they dec= ide they cannot stand Arwen so they write a story about Elrond,=C2=A0his so= ns and Aragorn but Arwen just doesn't exist and when you point it out to he= r that 'hey, Arwen was in Imladris at that time' they reply back "So? Its m= arked AU." Or when they make Elrohir, Elladan, Legolas, and Aragorn all the= same age. (yes I've read that story) So AU because you want to write a new= twist on the events is good. AU because you just feel like changing Tolkie= n's writing so much that it's not even the same story...not so much. =3D0)= =C2=A0 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ~~**~~ > >> I warn you, if you bo= re me, I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 > >> JRR Tolkien > >> =C2=A0 > >> >= >> > >> > >> > >> =C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2= =A6:- > >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4= =C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 > >> =C2=B0=C2=BA= .. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0 > >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- > >> > >> --- On Thu, 6/25= /09, Diana Nevins wrote: > >> > >> > >> From: Diana Nevins > >> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Questions about = Gondolin > >> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > >> Date: Thurs= day, June 25, 2009, 9:52 AM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> = > >> AUs have an undeservedly bad reputation; they can be a useful tool in= your toolbox. I don't write many AUs either, but as fortune would have it = I'm in the middle of writing a long story that I'll probably end up labelin= g an AU when it's done. The thing doesn't fit into my own established take = on Tolkien's world, and I think most people are going to feel it violates s= ome established Tolkien canon - but the thing insisted on being written, so= what's a writer to do? Wield your AU pen proudly! As long as you show you = know what canon is and aren't just breaking things out of ignorance, reader= s tend to happily go along with your changes. > >> > >> Ithilwen > >> > >= > -----Original Message----- > >> >From: melissa_pch > >> >Sent: Jun 25, 2009 3:32 AM > >> >To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yah= oogroup s.com > >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Re: Questions abou= t Gondolin > >> > > >> >Ahahaha! I did not think of that... :D Thanks! LOL = But I don't often make AU things... Well, I have to, for this. > >> > > >> = >- Rey (wind rider) > >> > > >> >--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogrou= p s.com, Diana Nevins wrote: > >> >> > >> >> *whispers the ma= gic wards 'AU'* > >> >> > >> >> Ithilwen > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Me= ssage----- > >> >> >From: alassante7 > >> >> >Sent: Jun 2= 4, 2009 10:07 PM > >> >> >To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com > = >> >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Re: Questions about Gondolin > = >> >> > > >> >> >Crap. Why do the Valar have to sink everything? *pouts* > = >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.co= m, Diana Nevins wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> The only parts of = Beleriand that survive the War of Wrath are a part of Ossiriand (in the sou= theast corner), which is renamed Lindon in the Second Age, and the tip of t= he Hill of Himring. Everything else sank under the waves, so if you want to= visit Gondolin after the Frist Age, you'll need scuba gear. > >> >> >> > = >> >> >> Ithilwen > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >>= >> >From: Alassante7 > >> >> >> >Sent: Jun 24, 2009 8:32 PM= > >> >> >> >To: SilmarillionWriters Guild > >> >> >> >Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Questions abo= ut Gondolin > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Would the location of Gondolin have be= en completely destroyed during the War of the Wrath? If not, where would it= be in the Second Age and after? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >~~**~~ I warn you= , if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien = =C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 =C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0..=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B7*=C3=83=C3=82=C2= =B4=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A8=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A8))=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2= =A0 -:=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A6:- > >> >> >> >=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2= =A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0= =C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 =C3=83=C3=82=C2=B8.=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B4= =C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 .=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B4=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A8= =C3=83=C3=82=C2=A8))=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0-:|:-=C3=83=C3=82= =C2=A0 > >> >> >> >=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C3= =83=C3=82=C2=BA=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B0 > >> >> >> >=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3= =82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 -:=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A6:-=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83= =C3=82=C2=A0=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 ((=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B8=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B8.=C3= =83=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=83=C3=82=C2=B4*=C3=83=C3=82=C2=A0 -:|:- > >> >> >> > > >= > >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> >= > >> > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2759 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29244 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2009 21:58:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2009 21:58:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2009 21:58:52 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2009 21:58:38 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.13] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2009 21:58:38 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:58:37 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: July Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=5XS7lB-lCnFT3OU2sQ6cCjC3U3HttYSaF9dM9dsI2EFJ51BWjZ5Mbpc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi, all, With Dawn on holiday, I am posting the July newsletter. It can be= found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php I= n this month's news, we have more information regarding this year's Akallab= eth in August project. Writers and artists who like to play in the Second A= ge (or who would like to give it a try!) are encouraged to check out this p= roject and contact us as soon as possible if you think you might want to pa= rticipate. However with Dawn on holiday, our responses might be a tad slowe= r. Another event which takes place in July is the International Day of Fe= mslash, on the 18th of July to be precise. Just like last year we want to = put a more neglected subgenre of Tolkien fan fiction in a spotlight and we = invite our members to try their hands at femslash. We also want to put or= Reference Section in the spotlight and we're hoping to re-acquaint our mem= bers with our budding Reference Library and perhaps nudge some of you to su= bmit your non-fiction, essays, and commentary for inclusion. For more links= and information, do check the newsletter! Of course, the highlight of the= newsletter is the columns, and this month we have a different biography wr= iter. Russandol wrote an elaborate biography about Maeglin. This month we= are still continuing the challenge, "Fanon Inverted," that asks you to pic= k a fanon loved or loathed, turn it on its head, and write a story to fit. = And, of course, we revisit an older challenge and have a new quote of the m= onth as well. Finally, Around the World and Web covers news and announcemen= ts from groups outside of the SWG that we think might be of interest to our= members. Enjoy! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2760 Return-Path: X-Sender: samtyr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4960 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2009 18:32:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2009 18:32:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2009 18:32:01 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2009 18:31:11 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2009 18:31:11 -0000 Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:31:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "samtyr" Subject: Beta Needed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91466528; y=9ALEM7ApWMIgtcu71Owa4TQp5wSBGT1UGMtbYu9t_d3q X-Yahoo-Profile: samtyr Does anyone have time to beta? I am working on a fic that is not too big ri= ght now (about 4000 words, once you take out the working notes I have in) a= nd it is probably about half-way finished. Thanks in advance! Sam From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2761 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91043 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2009 12:48:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2009 12:48:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f218.google.com) (209.85.219.218) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2009 12:48:07 -0000 X-Received: by ewy18 with SMTP id 18so4509262ewy.45 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:47:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.65.16 with SMTP id n16mr4838075eba.78.1246884427253; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:47:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 08:47:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c171a5cc894046e08e70d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Beta Needed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=4QgIY_qAKvpOo-5DIcRbCz23NcaNbsXOW6pBfihCNnqQ0xm7GzIi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174c171a5cc894046e08e70d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Sam, What are the specs on your story? Characters, pairing, rating, any warnings, perhaps a summary? All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174c171a5cc894046e08e70d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Sam,

What are the specs on your story? Characters, pairing, rati= ng, any warnings, perhaps a summary?

All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org
--0015174c171a5cc894046e08e70d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2762 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5273 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2009 13:42:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2009 13:42:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f213.google.com) (209.85.219.213) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2009 13:42:34 -0000 X-Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so4194319ewy.43 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 06:41:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.211.195.3 with SMTP id x3mr4905242ebp.28.1246887693383; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 06:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 09:41:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174beec609f8c6046e09aa1a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Mod Announcement: I'm Back X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=JvcDGqk2zjmkLHN1B_p7PgU74CfUdEiO5SkZycizySwxH3wZmddz X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174beec609f8c6046e09aa1a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, I am back from my holiday and available again at all of the usual places! :) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174beec609f8c6046e09aa1a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I am back from my holiday and available again at all of the= usual places! :)

All the best,

Dawn

-- =
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org
--0015174beec609f8c6046e09aa1a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2763 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11059 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2009 15:22:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2009 15:22:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2009 15:22:07 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.33] (helo=elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MNq18-0001BB-UP for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:22:06 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:22:06 -0400 Message-ID: <27777405.1246893726915.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:22:06 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b0cba9cad11cae0ba53ce8f169dac074350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Announcement: I'm Back X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=GfekmXYtDJ9_tCpC-nrP9laMaJ3CtVIO3rc8UF1tU06YBxgRYp67 X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Sorry your vacation's over so soon - but it's very good to have you back!

Ithilwen


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund
Sent: Jul 6, 2009 9:41 AM
To: SWG
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Announcement: I'm Back



Hi, all,

I am back from my holiday and available again at all of the usual places! :)

All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2764 Return-Path: X-Sender: samtyr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79955 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2009 16:26:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2009 16:26:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2009 16:26:41 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2009 16:26:29 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2009 16:26:29 -0000 Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:26:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "samtyr" Subject: Re: Beta Needed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91466528; y=bcF11B-UDatk2GFAWD4q2B6LoHTONRSIs8qiGoh4N0cq X-Yahoo-Profile: samtyr It is a Legolas/Glorfindel fic, solid R (perhaps NC-17 if they feel like it= . ;) Glorfindel tells Legolas of his past, in which Gil-galad plays a large= part. The only warning I can think of is for mpreg -- which will be mentio= ned but not necessarily occur. TIA! --Sam PS. You can contact me at my Y ad= dy. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, Sam, > > What are the specs on your story? Char= acters, pairing, rating, any warnings, > perhaps a summary? > > All the be= st, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/he= retic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2765 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6777 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2009 16:34:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2009 16:34:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f213.google.com) (209.85.219.213) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2009 16:34:08 -0000 X-Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so4340296ewy.43 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:33:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.110.5 with SMTP id i5mr5863184ebc.3.1246897987301; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:33:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:33:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bddf89ae3fa046e0c0fa5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Beta Needed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5kxCVm3ZdIj3K9G2IhijBoWXe-rLwp0Q2ohb9fLjVkvRo-MspNZE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174bddf89ae3fa046e0c0fa5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was asking less for myself because I will read anything! :D But I thought others might be persuaded if they had more information. Regardless, if you can't find anyone, I'd be happy to help; just send the story on over. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174bddf89ae3fa046e0c0fa5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was asking less for myself because I will read anything! :D But I thought others might be persuaded if they had more information.

Regardless, if you can't find anyone, I'd be happy to help; just send the story on over. :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015174bddf89ae3fa046e0c0fa5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2766 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20135 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2009 20:10:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2009 20:10:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2009 20:10:40 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2009 20:09:54 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2009 20:09:54 -0000 Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:09:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Mod Announcement: I'm Back X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=pmjwzAyNgUpHD0eOJls9DUW8Zb1pJCq1B3icWyHvdT7INzPf5jBXZEgIuwwPWLlnUsc92w X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel YAAAY!!! "squees and bounces" Dawn! Yay! "unfurls the welcome home banner"= So glad to have you back, I've enjoyed your tales of your adventure and I= 'm glad you had a wonderful time! "huggles" Roisin --- In SilmarillionWr= itersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi,= all, > > I am back from my holiday and available again at all of the usual= places! :) > > All the best, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersgu= ild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2767 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64554 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2009 01:20:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2009 01:20:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2009 01:20:21 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2009 01:19:36 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2009 01:19:36 -0000 Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:19:35 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melissa_pch" Subject: Re: Mod Announcement: I'm Back X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=q0e0TqX6_bNVq1Tami9x70ZYQbAxmpekHp1dImlLvB7Yfdm-kWo X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch Yea! Mum's home again! *celebrate* (LOL) - Rey (wind rider) --- In Silmar= illionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote:= > > Hi, all, > > I am back from my holiday and available again at all of = the usual places! :) > > All the best, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn F= elagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2768 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97616 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2009 16:41:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2009 16:41:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2009 16:41:35 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 24401 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jul 2009 16:41:35 -0000 Message-ID: <156618.23568.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: q7ITmSoVM1lDs8Ri6.ok3cIJnj9q4Vt9ECfNH5feZFQIdu0I4zeX7wMnSvDkmEjv1foms4qcMO7PN3oz_3S89_ZMhcVtZsSYQ5tsvNZWP8_Qy0hyZhR.QtVZ8Lkv58QEHnRUAVZ9TFyhe7qlnSc6HLUMw9GwS8VcwoRyWzDAMu72edtHTMp8DvNBWzJ.fglOEAI_ls.ei0sCU1OjZ15EoStnRXBE8XLWcFo6KNk1VUT.gBBSbly6_wDc3EW61QUiD1jVgmoEL0RPHeljhac82GYcKkXOVuLwnCBX1H66rAXzpxW63f5PWO5Hw37HRoeGlP9qdVUBRDh5 X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 09:41:35 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.17 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:41:35 -0700 (PDT) To: undisclosed recipients: ; MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1512778332-1246984895=:23568" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: OFF TOPIC - Calling all Harry Potter fans X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=kyWLpfqVoJsk3ODHRsSB36VHAzbRGHqphw7TI6oZqfKQVq-G-w X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1512778332-1246984895=:23568 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a newbie to the world of HP fanfiction writing, I find myself often look= ing for canon answers to things. Much like LOTR there are just some things = that are hard to find whether they were discussed in the books or not. Than= k God=A0JK Rowling didn't have her own version of something like=A0HoME! (a= t least not yet) But still, there are seven large books full of information= and 5 movies - alot of=A0the time, its hard to remember if its movie verse= or book verse. =A0 At any rate, I've created a yahoo group for this purpos= e. Whether you write HP now or are just a reader/fan and like to discuss it= , please join so we can help each other out! And feel free to pass on the l= ink to any other HP fans. =A0 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_FanFiction_R= esearch/ =A0 =A0 ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my re= venge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassa= nte .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --0-1512778332-1246984895=:23568 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
As a newbie to the world of HP fanfictio= n writing, I find myself often looking for canon answers to things. Much li= ke LOTR there are just some things that are hard to find whether they were = discussed in the books or not. Thank God JK Rowling didn't have her ow= n version of something like HoME! (at least not yet) But still, there = are seven large books full of information and 5 movies - alot of the t= ime, its hard to remember if its movie verse or book verse.
&nbs= p;
At any rate, I've created a yahoo group for this purpose. Whe= ther you write HP now or are just a reader/fan and like to discuss it, plea= se join so we can help each other out! And feel free to pass on the link to= any other HP fans.
 
 


 
=
~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, = I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:- =
        =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4= =A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0
=     -:=A6:-    ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-

--0-1512778332-1246984895=:23568-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2769 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44913 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2009 16:45:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2009 16:45:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-m06.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.200) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2009 16:45:39 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-m06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-34a537b952ef; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 12:45:09 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c57.57e3a807 (65098) for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:45:37 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1246985137" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OFF TOPIC - Calling all Harry Potter fans X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=MBKQgiPc7PZMyftb0NUWhFAkcY7jwXYPMY7OmfGeIh4a7Q0AYihh X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1246985137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know there are lot of existing research sites also, but I don't know what they are, I am only a very occasional, casual HP reader. **************Summer concert season is here! Find your favorite artists on tour at TourTracker.com. (http://www.tourtracker.com/?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000006) -------------------------------1246985137 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I know there= are lot of existing research sites also, but I don't know what they = are, I am only a very occasional, casual HP reader.
 -------------------------------1246985137-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2770 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60609 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2009 16:50:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2009 16:50:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2009 16:50:07 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 39455 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jul 2009 16:49:30 -0000 Message-ID: <653093.39384.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 7BhEthQVM1mUzBABapKg6b0_RkjlbocVm6U8aXiEuf5MFSZgZ2yZo49JUQgBQsJlIyFZDUKclAsxMtUOFq0lkxKf8OPGQcEpHwCsHT4nbr8pEIMM7BKDOXr2_LH5gJKwI0KHrLV_AI1uaI2cIqFwO2OT3NfFravjyO_tJxsB7AuS16Jbwvo959AHR.5jrsL7mGc7DIwFsOPQaP_JOe8XrSVzTmGxmQx.ig9KzHlwQ4SfE8Kc4myrCl6MdAtJWfwBC7tJv7aP1rE.YwKOVccvJK5wF8XlLc2nR2Q5niY39Yo.sZRt_Mk5BjbtuDWDXP.N_jHt9MwkqsZ31sILuazyIRUH0pEFsNI- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jul 2009 09:49:30 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.17 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:49:30 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-6628912-1246985370=:39384" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OFF TOPIC - Calling all Harry Potter fans X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=uTJ-wfsxTkAL08c2OlS9v-AZ8YzplNkzM1_Jy4-ZgxBflBoWkQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-6628912-1246985370=:39384 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Starting my own group with a lot of existing Tolkien fans - it doesn't feel= so much like I'm starting over=A0in another fandom. What can I say? I'm sh= y. =A0 I'm sure a bunch of you are laughing your a$$es off right now. = ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkie= n =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7= =B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0= -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --- On Tue, 7/7/09, heartofosh= un@aol.com wrote: From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OFF TOPIC - Calli= ng all Harry Potter fans To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date:= Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 12:45 PM I=A0know there are=A0lot of exist= ing research sites also, but I don't know what they are, I am only a very o= ccasional, casual=A0HP reader. Summer concert season is here! Find your = favorite artists on tour at TourTracker. com. --0-6628912-1246985370=:39384 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Starting my own group with a lot of exis= ting Tolkien fans - it doesn't feel so much like I'm starting over in = another fandom. What can I say? I'm shy.
 
I'm s= ure a bunch of you are laughing your a$$es off right now.

=
~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore= me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:-
        =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7= =B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante= .. =BA=B0
    -:=A6:-    ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:= |:-

<= BR>--- On Tue, 7/7/09, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:

From: heartofoshun@aol.com=
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OF= F TOPIC - Calling all Harry Potter fans
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yah= oogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 12:45 PM

I know there are lot of existing re= search sites also, but I don't know what they are, I am only a very occasio= nal, casual HP reader.

--0-6628912-1246985370=:39384-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2771 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74235 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2009 16:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2009 16:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma01.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.39) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2009 16:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n67GqPOa021834 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:52:25 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d0a.516ca6d0 (65098) for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:52:22 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1246985542" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OFF TOPIC - Calling all Harry Potter fans X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=rlDi6x-Up-9qUB0mezEdUJP83KMGY8z3m7I9Shg8dLMlUW-7tiyp X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1246985542 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sure a bunch of you are laughing your a$$es off right now. Hey, I'm not laughing. I'm a multi-fandom person myself, although The Silmarillion is my main one by a long margin. **************Summer concert season is here! Find your favorite artists on tour at TourTracker.com. (http://www.tourtracker.com/?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000006) -------------------------------1246985542 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
I'm sure a bunch of you are laughing yo= ur a$$es off right now.
<= DIV>Hey, I'm not laughing. I'm a multi-fandom person myself, although The = Silmarillion is my main one by a long margin.
 -------------------------------1246985542-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2772 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24565 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2009 16:40:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2009 16:40:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.100) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2009 16:40:33 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.239] by n4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2009 16:40:22 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by t4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2009 16:40:22 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2009 16:40:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:40:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melissa_pch" Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - Calling all Harry Potter fans X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=1D0aPApMxoA8RmHC6T0tI-Hi2cC0sh_9zlmO5JK9BscoriN7wSo X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch Mmm. I think I will join... though it must wait until my Internet connectio= n is better. I don't think the idea silly, Alasante. Why do you think so? = I'm a multifandom writer as well, although admitedly I write fan fics about= Tolkien's work more often than Harry Potter. I do read many HP fan fics, t= hough. :) - Rey (wind rider) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups= .com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > > > > I'm sure a bunch of you are lau= ghing your a$$es off right now. > > > > Hey, I'm not laughing. I'm a mu= lti-fandom person myself, although The > Silmarillion is my main one by a= long margin. > **************Summer concert season is here! Find your favo= rite artists on > tour at TourTracker.com. > (http://www.tourtracker.com/= ?ncid=3Demlcntusmusi00000006) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2773 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10916 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2009 05:56:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2009 05:56:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2009 05:56:36 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2009 05:56:26 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2009 05:56:26 -0000 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 05:56:25 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melissa_pch" Subject: Rey Needs a Beta Reader... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=6nNWr2BBHxKPphdebiNY9BIjwz_GXqyZ9XZcD7cd42akEDQCisU X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch Hi. I need a beta reader for my story Brother Mine. I have posted it in SWG= site as well as some others, but I am not really satisfied with the conten= t, and the grammar and spelling mistakes I still have even after some editt= ing and revising. (Perhaps it is the fate of a non-native English speaker w= ho seldom speak English in everyday living... LOL) I just hope that, if you= are interested, you could help me by giving some fresher ideas or perhaps = help me smoothing out some things in the chapters. I also hope that you wou= ld not mind being asked about trifial matters like in what year something h= appen or where was a particular place located, because truthfully I often h= ave difficulty with those. Ehh... I hope you are undaunted by what I said.= .. :-\ This is some things about the story: Title: Brother Mine Summary = (the one I usually use when posting it to a site): They say, even in the d= arkest of times and nightmares there is always a light, a silver lining, a = hope=85 It comes in many forms and often in the most unexpected places, eve= nts and situations. It was well known by Erestor and Ereinion, as they wer= e struggling to find their places and roles in the dying society and making= an effort in order to stay alive, starting in the end of the First Age and= continuing to the ages beyond. Rating: for now, PG (or K+, in FanFiction.= Net), but it will rise in later chapters (unevitably...) Pairing: none Th= ere... As you see, the story is mainly about Erestor and Ereinion. It is fi= rstly set just some time before Gondolin' fell, and it will end in the end = of the Second Age. Perhaps later I will give an prologue and epilogue to it= , but I am yet undecided. Someone interested? - Rey (wind rider) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2774 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36840 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2009 20:55:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2009 20:55:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f215.google.com) (209.85.219.215) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2009 20:55:18 -0000 X-Received: by ewy11 with SMTP id 11so1230594ewy.0 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:54:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.62.3 with SMTP id k3mr2847569eba.80.1247259271218; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:54:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bf1f0cdc5df046e602d6b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=UZUy9cmS3-D2FN-li3OQXFYuuMGXBvOz3WWg7wF2lSYGIbTJk2rR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174bf1f0cdc5df046e602d6b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, We've decided to try something new on the SWG list. We're periodically going to ask for story recommendations from list members. We have a lot of new members, and the archive is busier than it's ever been. It's easy for great stories to get lost or overlooked, so we're hoping that this will give our list members a chance to share with each other their favorites and find new stories to enjoy. So it's pretty simple: Recommend to me (and the rest of the list!) a story that you've read in the past few weeks that you really loved and think others will enjoy as well. The story doesn't have to be on the SWG, though it's generally useful if it's publicly accessible. ;) Post a link to the story and perhaps a few words of summary and, of course, you're more than welcome to say what you love about the story too! The only thing I ask is that, if the story is adult-rated, please indicate this in your post. This is a requirement of the Yahoo! Groups terms of service to keep our group accessible to members under the age of 18. Also, if you keep up with the SWG newsletter, you might have seen that this month Angelica and I are seeking recommendations for non-fiction essays that we might include in our Reference section. You're welcome to recommend your favorites on the list, of course, for others to enjoy, or send a list of your favorite non-fiction to us at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174bf1f0cdc5df046e602d6b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

We've decided to try something new on the SWG list. We&= #39;re periodically going to ask for story recommendations from list member= s. We have a lot of new members, and the archive is busier than it's ev= er been. It's easy for great stories to get lost or overlooked, so we&#= 39;re hoping that this will give our list members a chance to share with ea= ch other their favorites and find new stories to enjoy.

So it's= pretty simple: Recommend to me (and the rest of the list!) a story that yo= u've read in the past few weeks that you really loved and think others = will enjoy as well. The story doesn't have to be on the SWG, though it&= #39;s generally useful if it's publicly accessible. ;) Post a link to t= he story and perhaps a few words of summary and, of course, you're more= than welcome to say what you love about the story too!

The only th= ing I ask is that, if the story is adult-rated, please indicate this in you= r post. This is a requirement of the Yahoo! Groups terms of service to keep= our group accessible to members under the age of 18.

Also, if you = keep up with the SWG newsletter, you might have seen that this month Angeli= ca and I are seeking recommendations for non-fiction essays that we might i= nclude in our Reference section. You're welcome to recommend your favor= ites on the list, of course, for others to enjoy, or send a list of your fa= vorite non-fiction to us at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.=

All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Daw= n Felagund
http:= //themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015174bf1f0cdc5df046e602d6b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2775 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22802 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2009 21:14:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2009 21:14:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.66) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2009 21:14:42 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.32] (helo=elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MPNQY-0003DX-P6 for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:14:42 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:14:42 -0400 Message-ID: <25169204.1247260482728.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:14:42 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79808142672e20395ff2e24a820269ab64350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=7UxakmxmmBchYRoqkSVgcr18pU0-IK3pLms6OWn3SzuQ1REz-qKe X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Ooooh, this is a great idea, Dawn! I hope lots of people jump in with recommendations. I'll recommend one that was recently posted at the SWG Archive: "Nightingales and Starlight" by Clodia. (The URL is http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=593 ). It's a lovely look at how Daeron eventually made his way back to Valinor and got over the pain of losing Luthien (in the process writing a certain Lay), and it's someting of a rarity in this fandom: a serious story which is not at all depressing. You'll feel good after reading it. Ithilwen -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund Sent: Jul 10, 2009 4:54 PM To: SWG Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Recommend a Story! Hi, all, We've decided to try something new on the SWG list. We're periodically going to ask for story recommendations from list members. We have a lot of new members, and the archive is busier than it's ever been. It's easy for great stories to get lost or overlooked, so we're hoping that this will give our list members a chance to share with each other their favorites and find new stories to enjoy. So it's pretty simple: Recommend to me (and the rest of the list!) a story that you've read in the past few weeks that you really loved and think others will enjoy as well. The story doesn't have to be on the SWG, though it's generally useful if it's publicly accessible. ;) Post a link to the story and perhaps a few words of summary and, of course, you're more than welcome to say what you love about the story too! The only thing I ask is that, if the story is adult-rated, please indicate this in your post. This is a requirement of the Yahoo! Groups terms of service to keep our group accessible to members under the age of 18. Also, if you keep up with the SWG newsletter, you might have seen that this month Angelica and I are seeking recommendations for non-fiction essays that we might include in our Reference section. You're welcome to recommend your favorites on the list, of course, for others to enjoy, or send a list of your favorite non-fiction to us at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2776 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26943 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2009 20:54:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2009 20:54:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2009 20:54:21 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2009 20:54:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.13] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2009 20:54:16 -0000 Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 20:54:16 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=si1i5k7lVtVoAh8ue_GwqRHpdy3CP79C1Lrj1WIdqf2R1NykBkk4usIcn9-fyQzrYsnZ4A X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Dawn, this is fabulous! I love the idea! I will need to go back an snag a = reccomendation or two! Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup= s.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, all, > > We've decid= ed to try something new on the SWG list. We're periodically going > to ask = for story recommendations from list members. We have a lot of new > members= , and the archive is busier than it's ever been. It's easy for great > stor= ies to get lost or overlooked, so we're hoping that this will give our > li= st members a chance to share with each other their favorites and find new >= stories to enjoy. > > So it's pretty simple: Recommend to me (and the rest= of the list!) a story > that you've read in the past few weeks that you re= ally loved and think > others will enjoy as well. The story doesn't have to= be on the SWG, though > it's generally useful if it's publicly accessible.= ;) Post a link to the > story and perhaps a few words of summary and, of c= ourse, you're more than > welcome to say what you love about the story too!= > > The only thing I ask is that, if the story is adult-rated, please indi= cate > this in your post. This is a requirement of the Yahoo! Groups terms = of > service to keep our group accessible to members under the age of 18. >= > Also, if you keep up with the SWG newsletter, you might have seen that t= his > month Angelica and I are seeking recommendations for non-fiction essa= ys that > we might include in our Reference section. You're welcome to reco= mmend your > favorites on the list, of course, for others to enjoy, or send= a list of > your favorite non-fiction to us at loremaster AT silmarillionw= ritersguild > DOT org. > > All the best, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Fel= agund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2778 Return-Path: X-Sender: nav_joyi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98671 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2009 14:58:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2009 14:58:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2009 14:58:32 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2009 14:58:13 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2009 14:58:13 -0000 Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:58:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "nav" Subject: Re: Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=MaH-dWof49z7RIuyOY514xXDUWuR-NfuOUBOdbqZxH4S6KE X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi Erfanstarled's By Stars Light! Adult rated. A Finrod tale that will not dis= appoint. Wonderful read. Archived on SWG jdav. --- In SilmarillionWriter= sGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, all= , > > We've decided to try something new on the SWG list. We're periodical= ly going > to ask for story recommendations from list members. We have a lo= t of new > members, and the archive is busier than it's ever been. It's eas= y for great > stories to get lost or overlooked, so we're hoping that this = will give our > list members a chance to share with each other their favori= tes and find new > stories to enjoy. > > So it's pretty simple: Recommend = to me (and the rest of the list!) a story > that you've read in the past fe= w weeks that you really loved and think > others will enjoy as well. The st= ory doesn't have to be on the SWG, though > it's generally useful if it's p= ublicly accessible. ;) Post a link to the > story and perhaps a few words o= f summary and, of course, you're more than > welcome to say what you love a= bout the story too! > > The only thing I ask is that, if the story is adul= t-rated, please indicate > this in your post. This is a requirement of the = Yahoo! Groups terms of > service to keep our group accessible to members un= der the age of 18. > > Also, if you keep up with the SWG newsletter, you m= ight have seen that this > month Angelica and I are seeking recommendations= for non-fiction essays that > we might include in our Reference section. Y= ou're welcome to recommend your > favorites on the list, of course, for oth= ers to enjoy, or send a list of > your favorite non-fiction to us at lorema= ster AT silmarillionwritersguild > DOT org. > > All the best, > > Dawn > = > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster= / > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2779 Return-Path: X-Sender: silmdevils@yahoo.in X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26976 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2009 15:12:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2009 15:12:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2009 15:12:30 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2009 15:11:41 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2009 15:11:40 -0000 Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:11:38 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "silmdevil" Subject: Re: Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=398314253; y=bdBlEM6G5osN6kSiX78-x25EffxO0OxWjynzW93FhjTyY3YR X-Yahoo-Profile: silmdevil I made a mistake. I was posting on behalf of JDE who can't access groups th= rough her cellphone net connection. Someone's gonna kill me with acupunctur= e when she gets ta know that her helper turned loony and harebrained enough= to post a recc of her story from ibox when she had asked me to recc her fa= vorite story on her behalf. Recc made by JDE: Erfanstarled's By Stars Ligh= t on SWG. Sorry to have screwed it all Silmdevil. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2780 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15473 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2009 16:31:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2009 16:31:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f213.google.com) (209.85.219.213) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2009 16:31:02 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ew0-f213.google.com with SMTP id 9so1384027ewy.40 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:31:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.36.79 with SMTP id v57mr1184542wea.19.1247416262615; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:31:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:31:02 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f5af9438637c046e84bbf8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Iv3DJ-g0rznP_XV8zhcLyaz33AtLy_2uDGXupML90V1OVtvbBiG8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001485f5af9438637c046e84bbf8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Awww, Silmdevil, mistakes happen! :) It was kind of you to offer to help a friend! The link to Erfan's story, for anyone who's interested, is: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=442&index=1 With a reminder, again, that it is rated Adult; the link above will take you to the Table of Contents for more information. And I have to agree with JDE's rec; I started this story a long time ago and fell in love with it and really need to finish it. Real Life (read: school) took over, and I never got beyond the first few chapters, but that is *not*a comment on the story but on my busy life! :D It does, indeed, come with highest recommendations. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001485f5af9438637c046e84bbf8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Awww, Silmdevil, mistakes happen! :) It was kind of you to offer to help a = friend!

The link to Erfan's story, for anyone who's interest= ed, is:

http://www.silmarillionwritersgu= ild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D442&index=3D1

With= a reminder, again, that it is rated Adult; the link above will take you to= the Table of Contents for more information.

And I have to agree wit= h JDE's rec; I started this story a long time ago and fell in love with= it and really need to finish it. Real Life (read: school) took over, and I= never got beyond the first few chapters, but that is not a comment = on the story but on my busy life! :D It does, indeed, come with highest rec= ommendations.

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/he= retic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001485f5af9438637c046e84bbf8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2781 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95773 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2009 19:12:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2009 19:12:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2009 19:12:53 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN2-34a5a3572ae; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:11:46 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d2f.4369e38e (30737) for ; Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:11:41 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1247425901" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.138 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=5N08hPEd2I7wq2rSr79ju5slNBH8q1RyAy4aUPhUocXdRDjSap2Y X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1247425901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Erfanstarled'Erfanstarled' Hearty endorsement of Star's Light, really unique and beautifully written. **************Summer concert season is here! Find your favorite artists on tour at TourTracker.com. (http://www.tourtracker.com/?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000006) -------------------------------1247425901 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Erfanstarled's By Stars Light!
Hearty endorsement of Star's Light, really unique and beautifu= lly written.
 
 -------------------------------1247425901-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2782 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72306 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2009 13:21:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2009 13:21:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2009 13:21:34 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.45] (helo=elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MQhwr-0008Jm-SZ for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:21:33 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:21:33 -0400 Message-ID: <8736826.1247577693953.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:21:33 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79406d6ca4bcdb4e109439be2b3e23dd65350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=_z6jxa1FkzIjvZ5hAyG6LyLwDRb-vvpJ7Tj8e_bmDcYyDLFqK6j4 X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Two more recs, both posted at the SWG Archive. "Judgement" by Independence1776 (URL is http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=576 ). A short AU in which Maglor breaks away from Maedhros at the end and turns himself in to Eonwe. It's beautifully written, and shows that even the 'happiest' ending the sons of Feanor could expect isn't perfect. "The Journey Back" by Erin's Daughter (URL is http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=608 ). Rated ADULT for graphic violence. A realistic look at the rescue of Maedhros from Thangorodrim (and featuring a non-wimpy Maglor!). This fic was published a few years ago in the author's LJ, but deserves a wider readership. Happy reading! Ithilwen -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund Sent: Jul 10, 2009 3:54 PM To: SWG Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Recommend a Story! Hi, all, We've decided to try something new on the SWG list. We're periodically going to ask for story recommendations from list members. We have a lot of new members, and the archive is busier than it's ever been. It's easy for great stories to get lost or overlooked, so we're hoping that this will give our list members a chance to share with each other their favorites and find new stories to enjoy. So it's pretty simple: Recommend to me (and the rest of the list!) a story that you've read in the past few weeks that you really loved and think others will enjoy as well. The story doesn't have to be on the SWG, though it's generally useful if it's publicly accessible. ;) Post a link to the story and perhaps a few words of summary and, of course, you're more than welcome to say what you love about the story too! The only thing I ask is that, if the story is adult-rated, please indicate this in your post. This is a requirement of the Yahoo! Groups terms of service to keep our group accessible to members under the age of 18. Also, if you keep up with the SWG newsletter, you might have seen that this month Angelica and I are seeking recommendations for non-fiction essays that we might include in our Reference section. You're welcome to recommend your favorites on the list, of course, for others to enjoy, or send a list of your favorite non-fiction to us at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2783 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 64910 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2009 14:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2009 14:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2009 14:53:06 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1247583174; bh=JngFFdR7t58RGSmEWVUBfk8Ro06EpiMVBNw1d6jOUZU=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=eXTMNnhOOFiyBA+SmU8HxjT69eIRmxOXzrwcFuVfMdVUKSJVtrGIVgA0OH5HRCkqEfn8q97Qq9MgH4uLh7EigRPlek0Pj7voaot4Ikj5iJdw7i9wE/1izQ4UEzEHOJR7 Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2009 14:52:54 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2009 14:52:54 -0000 X-Sender: nmrussandol@googlemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26389 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2009 14:36:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2009 14:36:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2009 14:36:09 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2009 14:36:00 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2009 14:36:00 -0000 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:35:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "nelyo_russandol" Subject: Re: Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=403782243; y=XjLDnHuQ19_RkmLJDQZKNEaxm3z6pHCWYgh-KZeHPUO6 X-Yahoo-Profile: nelyo_russandol X-YGroups-SubInfo: t=0;f=16;g=none; X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 14 Jul 2009 14:52:52 -0000 Elegy for N=FAmenor, by elfscribe. Adult rated, and unfortunately incomplet= e. So elfscribe, if you are reading this, pleeease... http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D5\ 05 I will never be = able to think of Sauron as merely an evil, brooding dark Maia after reading= the chapters that have been posted. Russandol From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2784 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44378 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2009 15:04:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2009 15:04:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-m07.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.209) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2009 15:04:48 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-m07.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN1-24a5c9e4839c; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:03:36 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.bd9.3790b26b (29673) for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:03:54 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1247583834" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=kStJIrpTxOoZubrog8csM5u3V3bxJoiaVsfdMQpA1dV5kf6N7aGX X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1247583834 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Elegy for N=FAmenor, by elfscribe Three thumbs up for this one! Terr= ific story, so well-conceived and executed! But for the pining readers, I= have to warn you that Elfscribe is working out-of-town this summer at a = site with spotty access to the internet, so I doubt if she will see this = message. When I write her privately will tell her that her readers are lo= oking forward to the continuation. Oshun **************Summer concert sea= son is here! Find your favorite artists on tour at TourTracker.com. (http= ://www.tourtracker.com/?ncid=3Demlcntusmusi00000006) -------------------------------1247583834 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
 
Elegy for N=FAmenor, by elfscribe
Three thumbs up for this one! Terrific s= tory, so well-conceived and executed! But for the pining readers, I have t= o warn you that Elfscribe is working out-of-town this summer at a sit= e with spotty access to the internet, so I doubt if she will see this mess= age. When I write her privately will tell her that her readers are lo= oking forward to the continuation.
 
Oshun
= -------------------------------1247583834-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2785 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96146 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2009 15:09:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2009 15:09:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2009 15:09:34 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2009 15:08:44 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2009 15:08:44 -0000 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:08:44 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=D-Yrkig8YSjsgDQOh0q4S9AO2Ww9jQYx9HfIoYxQjru2kjg X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 LOL - she'll assume that's me whining for more... and, of course, she'd be = right! It really is an excellent story :D > Three thumbs up for this one= ! Terrific story, so well-conceived and > executed! But for the pining re= aders, I have to warn you that Elfscribe is > working out-of-town this su= mmer at a site with spotty access to the internet, so > I doubt if she wi= ll see this message. When I write her privately will tell > her that her = readers are looking forward to the continuation. > > Oshun From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2786 Return-Path: X-Sender: nmrussandol@googlemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77888 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2009 16:42:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2009 16:42:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2009 16:42:18 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2009 16:41:59 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2009 16:41:59 -0000 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:41:58 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "nelyo_russandol" Subject: Re: Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=403782243; y=Gw8Mt3LhOnmoyZcEJrkxCbMRHNK2lQ-qeJ4HBszcDNB3 X-Yahoo-Profile: nelyo_russandol Oh, no! I have long been hoping for an update... Well, at least I know now.= I hope she is still writing and we will get LOTS of it when she is back! ;= -) Russandol From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2787 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91286 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2009 07:08:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2009 07:08:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2009 07:08:15 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2009 07:08:15 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2009 07:08:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:08:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Recommend a Story! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=8JcYaLIw8F5LtpTC8Ug1fgOBmRD-RtXxTFoc27BnqvY7sHE6zkL3qUTqgOuXV2RtapgXEA X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel "Alliance" by Surgicalsteel, and "Woodgathering" by Pandemonium. "Alliance= " is a wonderful tale based off the idea Miriel wasn't reluctant to marry A= r-Pharzon, very well written, and a great read. I really like Steel's Ar-Ph= arzon a lot. I'm also promoting "Woodgathering" because it's not only well = written, but I really enjoy the premise. I adore the perspective it's writt= en from. The characters are great. Plus, with International Day of Femslash= coming up on the 19h, I thought I'd toss out a reccomendation for that too= . :-) Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nelyo_rus= sandol" wrote: > > Oh, no! I have long been hoping for an= update... Well, at least I know now. I hope she is still writing and we wi= ll get LOTS of it when she is back! > ;-) > Russandol > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2788 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32335 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2009 19:14:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2009 19:14:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f220.google.com) (209.85.219.220) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2009 19:14:28 -0000 X-Received: by ewy20 with SMTP id 20so214255ewy.43 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:13:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.29.66 with SMTP id h44mr37029wea.136.1247771607274; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:13:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6de011969959a046ed777eb X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Last Call for Akallabeth in August! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=6kdcpp4eAHYU_PSaRduKqH-G_Usid8PhWv7e13ftlaD_cmToYGH3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6de011969959a046ed777eb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, This is the last time I will be pestering the group about Akallabeth in August until it's time to reveal some of the wonderful stories and artwork being crafted! A few topics remain, so I wanted to post one final list in case anyone is interested in putting something together for this event. Please remember that all sorts of contributions are welcome--stories, poems, ficlets, and artwork--as well as all ratings and subject matter. All that we ask is that the piece not be published before it is revealed as part of Akallabeth in August. Full guidelines on the project are available here: Following are the topics/events that remain unclaimed. If you'd be interested in contributing something for one of them, please email me privately or at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Those events with three asterisks (***) are those that we feel most are essential and in which we are in greatest need of contributors. Please note, also, that some topics were claimed earlier by contributors who have since released them back into the pool of available topics. If you were interested in a topic that had already been claimed, check to see that it's not one that has been made available again! :) -early "golden" years of Numenor: frienship with Valar and Elves, increasing knowledge in craft and lore, et cetera -Numenoreans return to Middle-earth to teach Men there -Tar-Ciryatan and Tar-Atanamir begin to extract tribute from the Men of Middle-earth ***division of Numenoreans into King's Men and Elendili/Elf-friends*** -Numenoreans build settlements in southern Middle-earth and act as lords there -Elf-friends continue to sail north and aid Gil-galad against Sauron ***Pharazon marries Miriel against her will and takes her throne*** ***Ar-Pharazon begins to worship Melkor*** -construction of Sauron's temple and the destruction of Nimloth -the faithful prepare to flee Numenor ***Elendil and his sons are spared and driven in to the east*** All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6de011969959a046ed777eb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,
=C2=A0
This is the last time I will be = pestering the group about Akallabeth in August until it's time to revea= l some of the wonderful stories and artwork being crafted! A few topics rem= ain, so I wanted to post one final list in case anyone is interested in put= ting something together for this event. Please remember that all sorts of c= ontributions are welcome--stories, poems, ficlets, and artwork--as well as = all ratings and subject matter. All that we ask is that the piece not be pu= blished before it is revealed as part of Akallabeth in August. Full guideli= nes on the project are available here:
=C2=A0
<= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august.php>
=C2=A0
Following are the topics/events that remain uncl= aimed. If you'd be interested in contributing something for one of them= , please email me privately or at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT= org.
=C2=A0
Those events with three asterisks (***) = are those that we feel most are essential and in which we are in greatest n= eed of contributors. Please note, also, that some topics were claimed earli= er by contributors who have since released them back into the pool of avail= able topics. If you were interested in a topic that had already been claime= d, check to see that it's not one that has been made available again! := )
=C2=A0
-early "golden" years of Numenor:= frienship with Valar and Elves, increasing knowledge in craft and lore, et= cetera
=C2=A0
-Numenoreans return to Middle-earth to= teach Men there
=C2=A0
-Tar-Ciryatan and Tar-Atanami= r begin to extract tribute from the Men of Middle-earth
=C2=A0
***division of Numenoreans into King's Men and Elendili/Elf-f= riends***
=C2=A0
-Numenoreans build settlements in so= uthern Middle-earth and act as lords there
=C2=A0
-El= f-friends continue to sail north and aid Gil-galad against Sauron
=C2=A0
***Pharazon marries Miriel against her will and takes h= er throne***
=C2=A0
***Ar-Pharazon begins to worship = Melkor***
=C2=A0
-construction of Sauron's temple= and the destruction of Nimloth
=C2=A0
-the faithful = prepare to flee Numenor
=C2=A0
***Elendil and his son= s are spared and driven in to the east***
=C2= =A0
=C2=A0
All the best,
=C2=A0
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lo= remaster/
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6de011969959a046ed777eb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2789 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57675 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2009 23:30:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2009 23:30:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2009 23:30:49 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jul 2009 23:30:39 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jul 2009 23:30:39 -0000 Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:30:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Last Call for Akallabeth in August! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=W26Vx-k4ESW2aGWUukk1Lm0bvFrgeaJ8tdAEx6b6AL3YyllXbgaNoBgT1vqbiu0JfvsCNg X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Hi Dawn. I sent you an email in regards to this a bit ago. "hugs" Roisin = --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, all, > > This is the last time I will be pestering = the group about Akallabeth in > August until it's time to reveal some of th= e wonderful stories and artwork > being crafted! A few topics remain, so I = wanted to post one final list in > case anyone is interested in putting som= ething together for this event. > Please remember that all sorts of contrib= utions are welcome--stories, poems, > ficlets, and artwork--as well as all = ratings and subject matter. All that we > ask is that the piece not be publ= ished before it is revealed as part of > Akallabeth in August. Full guideli= nes on the project are available here: > > > > Following are the topics/events that= remain unclaimed. If you'd be > interested in contributing something for o= ne of them, please email me > privately or at moderator AT silmarillionwrit= ersguild DOT org. > > Those events with three asterisks (***) are those tha= t we feel most are > essential and in which we are in greatest need of cont= ributors. Please note, > also, that some topics were claimed earlier by con= tributors who have since > released them back into the pool of available to= pics. If you were interested > in a topic that had already been claimed, ch= eck to see that it's not one > that has been made available again! :) > > -= early "golden" years of Numenor: frienship with Valar and Elves, increasing= > knowledge in craft and lore, et cetera > > -Numenoreans return to Middle= -earth to teach Men there > > -Tar-Ciryatan and Tar-Atanamir begin to extra= ct tribute from the Men of > Middle-earth > > ***division of Numenoreans in= to King's Men and Elendili/Elf-friends*** > > -Numenoreans build settlement= s in southern Middle-earth and act as lords > there > > -Elf-friends contin= ue to sail north and aid Gil-galad against Sauron > > ***Pharazon marries M= iriel against her will and takes her throne*** > > ***Ar-Pharazon begins to= worship Melkor*** > > -construction of Sauron's temple and the destruction= of Nimloth > > -the faithful prepare to flee Numenor > > ***Elendil and hi= s sons are spared and driven in to the east*** > > > All the best, > > Dawn= > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaste= r/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2790 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66074 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2009 18:18:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2009 18:18:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2009 18:18:43 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2009 18:18:38 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2009 18:18:38 -0000 Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:18:36 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Happy Femslash Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=k2u4dTx8AzLP7RCAaGk-LrnoYTkbTCbqKVYBIJgCDmkQ1fW2yBst4K1hbR4ecdGGyJntxg X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Happy International Day of Femslash! I look forward to reading the stories= to commemorate the day. Roisin From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2791 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33799 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2009 14:56:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2009 14:56:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f217.google.com) (209.85.219.217) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2009 14:56:00 -0000 X-Received: by ewy17 with SMTP id 17so2488669ewy.42 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:55:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.0.84 with SMTP id 62mr1190227wea.185.1248101671638; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:54:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:54:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f626b0c81602046f245030 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy Femslash Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=SdNpltGDxVI-iJzGbXCoy1kGlgixc-6hBB8TP1sTD2EfBSNQl6hg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001485f626b0c81602046f245030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A belated happy femslash day to you too, Roisin! :D It seems you were the only writer this year, though I suspect that conflict with Akallabeth in August had something to do with that. I had high hopes of writing another chapter for "Awakening," but not having Internet access this weekend made that rather difficult. I'm at work, so it's probably best not to read your story now. ;) But I've read the reviews and have marked it for later! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001485f626b0c81602046f245030 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A belated happy femslash day to you too, Roisin! :D It see= ms you were the only writer this year, though I suspect that conflict with = Akallabeth in August had something to do with that. I had high hopes of wri= ting another chapter for "Awakening," but not having Internet acc= ess this weekend made that rather difficult.
=C2=A0
= I'm at work, so it's probably best not to read your story now. ;) B= ut I've read the reviews and have marked it for later!
=C2= =A0
Dawn
--001485f626b0c81602046f245030-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2792 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44315 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2009 07:51:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2009 07:51:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2009 07:51:38 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2009 07:50:49 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2009 07:50:49 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 07:50:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Happy Femslash Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=KKkCetLCbEi_iBr05bYi_IV2rOCFUCSZ6TuNdl-kXAeH_R0_YbVwCVDZdymGayW8UBH-vg X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Ah, I don't mind being a lone femslasher. ;-) Although I had hoped to see = more stories too, but yes, I think many folks have been kept busy with Akal= labeth in August, which is also awesome too! Yay! So excited to read everyo= ne's stories for that! "bounces" I was fortunate that I had started the sto= ry before Akallabeth in August came around, so all that was left was to fin= ish it, polish it, and post. I thought there was no better time than IDF 20= 09 to make my femslash debute. I must check out your story, "Awakening" for= sure. No, best to wait until after work to read my story. ;-) I do hope y= ou will enjoy it when you get a chance to read it. And of course I have to = thank my lovely reviewers for their imput! Thanks Gals! "does a dance" Ro= isin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > A belated happy femslash day to you too, Roisin! := D It seems you were the > only writer this year, though I suspect that conf= lict with Akallabeth in > August had something to do with that. I had high = hopes of writing another > chapter for "Awakening," but not having Internet= access this weekend made > that rather difficult. > > I'm at work, so it's= probably best not to read your story now. ;) But I've > read the reviews a= nd have marked it for later! > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2793 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5558 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2009 01:54:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2009 01:54:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2009 01:54:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1248314039; bh=zDGuf9zYyYt4IA6fGlK098ASYPpSULf8rU88Z/zcD4Q=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=kB0XlQ3EYJ0BrjJ8IoHI5f5evPptjTrP3VCAgSkoVnulHziAKvVvIGMH0PIXe1BUXN7FN+D4Uw0XIgbnNXbDCWar0v9TmhLj9hZWo3kvi+Kj7hE76qSiRQOqR7zVp7Ff Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 01:53:59 -0000 Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 01:53:59 -0000 X-Sender: nessaralindaran@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76204 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2009 01:06:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2009 01:06:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2009 01:06:37 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 01:06:08 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 01:06:08 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:06:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Vanessa" Subject: Re: Happy Femslash Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=217491065; y=P7emv1J5ycq-w9ZacAGuS05yM4n1OLArBKkdImGY3uH2Z6wMbI7zu5zG X-Yahoo-Profile: nessaralindaran X-YGroups-SubInfo: t=0;f=16;g=FFourSyh8081yGSQRIEReb3Ft5jgAFBcQgfl6irAUVQ37kmQXqmGvXOeccOwH1QRyvc; X-eGroups-Approved-By: tarion_anarore via web; 23 Jul 2009 01:53:58 -0000 I'll be happy to give it a go next time. I've just joined the group. -= -- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "roisin_elendiel" wrote: > > > Ah, I don't mind being a lone femslasher. ;-) Althoug= h I had hoped to > see more stories too, but yes, I think many folks have b= een kept busy > with Akallabeth in August, which is also awesome too! Yay! = So excited to > read everyone's stories for that! "bounces" I was fortunate= that I had > started the story before Akallabeth in August came around, so= all that > was left was to finish it, polish it, and post. I thought there= was no > better time than IDF 2009 to make my femslash debute. I must chec= k out > your story, "Awakening" for sure. > > No, best to wait until after= work to read my story. ;-) I do hope you > will enjoy it when you get a ch= ance to read it. And of course I have to > thank my lovely reviewers for th= eir imput! Thanks Gals! > > "does a dance" > > Roisin > > > --- In Silm= arillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund > wrote= : > > > > A belated happy femslash day to you too, Roisin! :D It seems you = were > the > > only writer this year, though I suspect that conflict with A= kallabeth > in > > August had something to do with that. I had high hopes o= f writing > another > > chapter for "Awakening," but not having Internet ac= cess this weekend > made > > that rather difficult. > > > > I'm at work, so= it's probably best not to read your story now. ;) But > I've > > read the = reviews and have marked it for later! > > > > Dawn > > > > -- > > ~oOo~ > >= Dawn Felagund > > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > > http://w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2794 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53741 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2009 13:27:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2009 13:27:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n41b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.155) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2009 13:27:05 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 13:26:48 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 13:26:47 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:26:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn Felagund" Subject: Re: Happy Femslash Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=22PswE-oBYmaoYwiH-ekTA0w4nYX__nGyn2CcwATG7xMvrNTM37x X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Welcome to the group, Vanessa! :) International Day of Femslash is a multi= -fandon "holiday" in which the SWG participates every year. It seems that t= he organizers generally place it on the third Saturday in July. We welcome = all genres of Silm stories throughout the year (femslash included, of corus= e), but I like IDoF for spotlighting a genre that, otherwise, does not tend= to get a lot of attention. I hope you will play along but not wait a year= before sharing a story with us! :D Take care, Dawn --- In SilmarillionW= ritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Vanessa" wrote: > > I'l= l be happy to give it a go next time. I've just joined the group. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2795 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62232 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2009 13:47:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2009 13:47:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2009 13:47:16 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 13:47:05 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 13:47:05 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:47:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Happy Femslash Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=e2mSSw_T9yF_o7nVDFy1xtEaKY0BEeMeAc6Nxs5W8LPTKiERTsvkvLn5 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 And what an excellent debut that was, Roisin! Hot and heretical. Just my = cup of steamin' tea. :^) I regret to say that even with the best of intent= ions and a couple of gnawing plot critters, a little thing called Akallabet= h in August distracted me. Hope to make a femslash contribution in July 20= 10. Congrats again on the debut! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2796 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22450 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2009 15:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2009 15:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2009 15:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 15:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.15] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 15:40:16 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:40:14 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "melissa_pch" Subject: Re: Happy Femslash Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=tP6lNKmn_A189raahuEL1bQjGmjipxPPLorsEc0ZYl5Ih501FaA X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch Ehh... A happy belated Femmeslash day for you all... *blush* I have just co= me back from a trip out of town and can only post now. Femmeslash isn't my = genre, but I don't really mind reading about stories categorised in it. :) = Dunno if perhaps one day I will even participate in writing a story in this= genre. *grin* - Rey (wind rider) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogr= oups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > And what an excell= ent debut that was, Roisin! Hot and heretical. Just my cup of steamin' te= a. :^) > > I regret to say that even with the best of intentions and a cou= ple of gnawing plot critters, a little thing called Akallabeth in August di= stracted me. Hope to make a femslash contribution in July 2010. Congrats a= gain on the debut! > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2797 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75110 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2009 20:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2009 20:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n5-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.101) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2009 20:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.239] by n5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 20:33:48 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by t4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 20:33:48 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 20:33:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:33:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Happy Femslash Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=UN_f_ukviyXiJzNY9mzn8rRRw0C74Ui9-wsbCWNxrl1Qb9WRrLkosBHr91ykWfNz7VsnFw X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel "blush" why thank you Pande "hugs". It was fun to write. You should have s= een the looks on hubby's face when he read it! Now those would have been so= me pictures worth keeping! I'll look forward to your offerings in 2010. Bu= t I am especially excited for the Akallabeth in August stories, lots of gre= at authors, and I'm excited to read it all. :-) And a most warn welcome to= Vanessa! Welcome to SWG! Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogrou= ps.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > And what an excellen= t debut that was, Roisin! Hot and heretical. Just my cup of steamin' tea. := ^) > > I regret to say that even with the best of intentions and a couple o= f gnawing plot critters, a little thing called Akallabeth in August distrac= ted me. Hope to make a femslash contribution in July 2010. Congrats again o= n the debut! > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2798 Return-Path: X-Sender: nessaralindaran@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37997 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2009 23:49:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2009 23:49:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2009 23:49:27 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 23:48:23 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.14] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2009 23:48:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:48:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Vanessa" Subject: Re: Happy Femslash Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=217491065; y=c1rv5IipO_c98srqwpK3h060j7sAAlsHeAj4Me0vKUOBGqrw4gSWa1IQ X-Yahoo-Profile: nessaralindaran I do have something I wrote years ago, but it's sort of embarrassing. I'll= think on it a day. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Daw= n Felagund" wrote: > > Welcome to the group, Vanessa! :)= > > International Day of Femslash is a multi-fandon "holiday" in which th= e SWG participates every year. It seems that the organizers generally place= it on the third Saturday in July. We welcome all genres of Silm stories th= roughout the year (femslash included, of coruse), but I like IDoF for spotl= ighting a genre that, otherwise, does not tend to get a lot of attention. >= > I hope you will play along but not wait a year before sharing a story w= ith us! :D > > Take care, > > Dawn > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@y= ahoogroups.com, "Vanessa" wrote: > > > > I'll be happy t= o give it a go next time. I've just joined the group. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2799 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68001 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2009 08:33:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2009 08:33:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2009 08:33:34 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jul 2009 08:33:24 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jul 2009 08:33:24 -0000 Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:33:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Happy Femslash Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=xzd_HX8uNcPDj3CFt2mxDGWY3xZ_JIu1YsheRNh3iKg7K61lXk5vK3c X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > And what an excellent debut that was, Roisin! Hot and= heretical. > Just my cup of steamin' tea. :^) I haven't read it yet... = I am so behind on reading. > I regret to say that even with the best of in= tentions and a couple > of gnawing plot critters, a little thing called Ak= allabeth in > August distracted me. Hope to make a femslash contribution = in July > 2010. Yups, here as well. Last night I worked a bit on my fems= lash offering for 2008 (yeps, I am that behind), but who knows that I can a= ctually get some more written for 2010 (on many projects). For now RL preva= ils. >Congrats again on the debut! Yups! :D Vanessa wrote: > I do have = something I wrote years ago, but it's sort of > embarrassing. I'll think o= n it a day. Take your time, but when you want to share it, do let us know.= Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2800 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99529 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2009 15:27:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2009 15:27:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2009 15:27:38 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jul 2009 15:27:03 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jul 2009 15:27:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:27:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Happy Femslash Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=4lHpU1KQz5PMg3cADfeGZOAi1zABeBjHPfnvumBlNnAJZqy29Q2JNv48ldC_Xp4aM9Em4Q X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel I look forward to reading the story when you post it Rhapsody, whether tha= t's next week or next year. Coming from you, I know it'll be worth the wait= . :-) I hope you will enjoy my story when you get the chance to read it. A= nd Vanessa, it's perfectly alright to take your time. "hugs" I wrote a lot = on my own before posting because I was afraid to post my more "risque" stuf= f. But the regulars here ar very accepting and kind. I'm glad you found SWG= . It really is "the" best site for Silmarillion fiction. And the folks here= make it worth it to be here too. Thank you Rhaps for the congrats on my d= ebut. It felt good to finally step out of my box and break my personal clic= hes. Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_t= he_bard" wrote: > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoog= roups.com, "pandemonium_213" docbushwell@ wrote: > > > > And what an excell= ent debut that was, Roisin! Hot and heretical. > > Just my cup of steamin' = tea. :^) > > I haven't read it yet... I am so behind on reading. > > > I re= gret to say that even with the best of intentions and a couple > > of gnawi= ng plot critters, a little thing called Akallabeth in > > August distracted= me. Hope to make a femslash contribution in July > > 2010. > > Yups, here = as well. Last night I worked a bit on my femslash offering for 2008 (yeps, = I am that behind), but who knows that I can actually get some more written = for 2010 (on many projects). For now RL prevails. > > >Congrats again on th= e debut! > > Yups! :D > > Vanessa wrote: > > > I do have something I wrote = years ago, but it's sort of > > embarrassing. I'll think on it a day. > > T= ake your time, but when you want to share it, do let us know. > > Rhapsody = > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2801 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31401 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2009 15:57:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2009 15:57:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f208.google.com) (209.85.219.208) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2009 15:56:59 -0000 X-Received: by ewy4 with SMTP id 4so1737423ewy.10 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:55:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.70.143 with SMTP id p15mr1027883wed.115.1248450955891; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:55:55 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502d1a4bed4ed046f75a390 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: MEFA Check-Ballots Up X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=r2WGz78x3mCyWORfzTnXXkKbaADa4d48zKe5So1MycXh7OdUgXR1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00504502d1a4bed4ed046f75a390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On behalf of Marta, the MEFA admin ... --- Every year, the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards (MEFAs) posts a preliminary version of our categorization before it's displayed at our website. This allows authors times to catch any errors in how their stories are categorized. We call this part of the awards "check ballots." The 2009 check ballots are now available at the Yahoo group and LJ where awards announcements are made. Authors are encouraged to make sure their stories are placed appropriately. You can see the first version of these check ballots at: community.livejournal.com/mefas/ groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/ If you see an error with how your stories are categorized, please comment at either place. You will need to comment by July 31, at which point the categorization will become "final." After that, we will only move WIPs if they are completed; no other categorization changes will be made. A story's category assignment will also be displayed at our website, beginning August 1. Marta (MEFA Administrator) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00504502d1a4bed4ed046f75a390 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On behalf of Marta, the MEFA admin ...

---

Every year, the Mi= ddle-earth Fanfiction Awards (MEFAs) posts a preliminary version of our cat= egorization before it's displayed at our website. This allows authors t= imes to catch any errors in how their stories are categorized. We call this= part of the awards "check ballots."

The 2009 check ball= ots are now available at the Yahoo group and LJ where awards announcements = are made. Authors are encouraged to make sure their stories are placed appr= opriately. You can see the first version of these check ballots at:
com= munity.livejournal.com/mefas/
groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/
=
If you see an error with how your stories are categorized, please com= ment at either place. You will need to comment by July 31, at which point t= he categorization will become "final." After that, we will only m= ove WIPs if they are completed; no other categorization changes will be mad= e.

A story's category assignment will also be displayed at our= website, beginning August 1.

Marta
(MEFA Administrator)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org
--00504502d1a4bed4ed046f75a390-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2802 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16309 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2009 05:44:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2009 05:44:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2009 05:44:46 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 74837 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Jul 2009 05:44:44 -0000 Message-ID: <760091.74515.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: eyXf2N8VM1nrPT5AIdXG9L4upHaeVHOHMbus5N_vpoMKhJrGr12JV3Qt76rFJM1jKgW0ucMtnGROLFYr.ajKCJ7eT1gWuURXXDT9H9NOBPjIY0dLOG0e7_CQjp2X.DjWS677_j9G2SJdkqSF15FXdsPsqz22qdf5kq.xyg70rBsMxnGsRembmAIzJAwvBc1GhUUIXZq4paxzlXS2cmZCVQSazH.xA9wTDtrH6Nzb9KabV4UJP0lDosOLgPoUcJBx4hQ9QG8Zq6XFBOQG7QypJUMfUWMLYjfLmdDTWUyW.22S1V_ShSWY5Bdg1xWofnhzkXBQ8BLu9hzGzxNOX8Ws57A- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 22:44:44 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.17 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 22:44:44 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, SoA , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1751323014-1248500684=:74515" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] ..::August Theme ~ But You're a Girl! The Tolkien Feminine Twist::.. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=9rLr8p7bBRnzoC3SLFbmmzVSgOyxoKVw58cCZteVe9TNu1sEPg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1751323014-1248500684=:74515 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =A0 Pick one of these three options, 1)= write a tale of the Fellowship but make one of the existing members of the= fellowship a female (not a 10th walker, but replace one of the actual fell= owship members)2) write a tale of the Sons of Feanor with the twist that th= ere are SIX sons and ONE daughter3) Pick another important male canon chara= cter and make them a female instead of a male - Eomer, Bilbo, Gloin, Fingon= , Fingolfin, Beleg, Shelob, etc etc. The theme for August is 'But You're a = Girl! The Tolkien Femine Twist'. In this male dominated tale, I thought it = would be fun to mix it up a bit. *evil grin* It also does not have to be b= ased on documented events but it will need to be based on an actual charact= er in the books as the base character to be changed to a female. Each write= r has until August 31st to turn in the story to alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo= .com. Note - I have changed the email address to the same address as votin= g due to some confusion of where to send things. SEND ALL STORIES AND VOTES= TO alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com.Please include the proper formatting fo= r LJ. If you have any questions about how to do that, feel free to ask. G= ood luck and happy writing!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Co= ntest/ http://community. livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c/ = --0-1751323014-1248500684=:74515 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


 


Pick one of these three= options,

1) write a tale of= the Fellowship but make one of the existing members of the fellowship a fe= male (not a 10th walker, but replace one of the actual fellowship members)<= /p>

2) write a tale of the Sons of Fe= anor with the twist that there are SIX sons and ONE daughter

3) Pick another important male canon character = and make them a female instead of a male - Eomer, Bilbo, Gloin, Fingon, Fin= golfin, Beleg, Shelob, etc etc.

The theme for August is <= font color=3D"#ff0000">'But You're a Girl! T= he Tolkien Femine Twist'. In this male dominated tale, I though= t it would be fun to mix it up a bit. *evil grin*

It also does not h= ave to be based on documented events but it will need to be based on an act= ual character in the books as the base character to be changed to a female.= Each writer has until August 31st = to turn in the story to alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com.

Note - I have changed the email a= ddress to the same address as voting due to some confusion of where to send= things. SEND ALL STORIES AND VOTES TO alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com.

=

Please include the proper formatting f= or LJ. If you have any questions about how to do that, feel free to ask.

Good luck and happy writing!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/

http://community. livejournal. com/a_l_e_ c/



--0-1751323014-1248500684=:74515-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2803 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55354 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2009 10:27:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2009 10:27:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2009 10:27:59 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2009 10:27:51 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2009 10:27:51 -0000 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:27:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: MEFA Check-Ballots Up X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=1jUqnwWVi4a3Cn8qF_xz31ojmrQBlwyigXSb0RNCNFQjU35bEasGxlPcrvXq79pbz0bs-w X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Ah, cool. Thanks Dawn for posting this here. I would have missed it otherw= ise due to busy-ness. Thanks for keeping us in the loop! Roisin --- In S= ilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund w= rote: > > On behalf of Marta, the MEFA admin ... > > --- > > Every year, th= e Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards (MEFAs) posts a preliminary > version of o= ur categorization before it's displayed at our website. This > allows autho= rs times to catch any errors in how their stories are > categorized. We cal= l this part of the awards "check ballots." > > The 2009 check ballots are n= ow available at the Yahoo group and LJ where > awards announcements are mad= e. Authors are encouraged to make sure their > stories are placed appropria= tely. You can see the first version of these > check ballots at: > > commun= ity.livejournal.com/mefas/ > groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/ > > If you s= ee an error with how your stories are categorized, please comment at > eith= er place. You will need to comment by July 31, at which point the > categor= ization will become "final." After that, we will only move WIPs if > they a= re completed; no other categorization changes will be made. > > A story's c= ategory assignment will also be displayed at our website, > beginning Augus= t 1. > > Marta > (MEFA Administrator) > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2804 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75203 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2009 16:02:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2009 16:02:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ey-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.78.148) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2009 16:02:35 -0000 X-Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so758298eyb.6 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:02:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.10.210 with SMTP id 60mr1655184wev.81.1248710549562; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:02:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364d31f9bbe63f046fb2141b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Happy 4th Birthday, SWG! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-DsIv52cNkD5bDPjKvlOMWoMu_AxJ-fZxMTqpUwexx3ZQMJ_xQ6x X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364d31f9bbe63f046fb2141b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, everyone, Today is the official "birthday" of our group. Four years ago, Uli (ford_of_bruinen) and I started spreading the word to our friends about our new group, and the first wave of members joined the SWG. I can't pass this day without thinking of how far we've come in that time and without being grateful to the many of you who have made that progress possible. So I would like to thank you all for making this group more awesome than I ever could have imagined four years ago. Your hard work, energy, enthusiasm, and willingness to share your time and talents with us is what has made the SWG a success. So thank you all, and here's to many more birthdays! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364d31f9bbe63f046fb2141b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,
=C2=A0
Today is the official "= ;birthday" of our group. Four years ago, Uli (ford_of_bruinen) and I s= tarted spreading the word to our friends about our new group, and the first= wave of members joined the SWG.
=C2=A0
I can't = pass this day without thinking of how far we've come in that time and w= ithout being grateful to the many of you who have made that progress possib= le. So I would like to thank you all for making this group more awesome tha= n I ever could have imagined four years ago. Your hard work, energy, enthus= iasm, and willingness to share your time and talents with us is what has ma= de the SWG a success.
=C2=A0
So thank you all, and h= ere's to many more birthdays! :)
=C2=A0
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= /a>
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org
--0016364d31f9bbe63f046fb2141b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2805 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 726 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2009 19:54:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2009 19:54:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2009 19:54:39 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1248724464; bh=CnjLvQdOhJEsEStyA64xphcFhg3yPX+rlbFwAvd6InE=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=jBZvk2ev7Oc+OFx/hdD/KpvNJPw9C4gQarKZlpkXFEC6a4H8Z9v0BFmFnWtPc5i5Vlz39F9kesrmbvhN4i1ClztJTRotYi5UsHxnR9pL093B+whWoH4/2g56SCPVLjJ5 Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2009 19:54:24 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2009 19:54:24 -0000 X-Sender: erfan.starled@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45970 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2009 19:41:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2009 19:41:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2009 19:41:05 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2009 19:40:58 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2009 19:40:58 -0000 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:40:56 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "erfan.starled" Subject: Re: Happy 4th Birthday, SWG! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=310858615; y=Y3TV1faYvZ-XBKRzrBJSiON_aZSLlYmvE8Pt87NmWRSpiQlmMcPe4w X-Yahoo-Profile: erfan.starled X-YGroups-SubInfo: t=0;f=16;g=aDozsgiPUWy4cOUtIuzWstsB50oZtEdgFRwyBlajNpjxIQexPgGLu7vXbNo235-zfjw; X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 27 Jul 2009 19:54:23 -0000 I enjoyed hearing from you once about how SWG started. It seems a construct= ive community, one I admire. Congratulations. And thank you. --- In Silma= rillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote= : > > Hi, everyone, > > Today is the official "birthday" of our group. Fou= r years ago, Uli > (ford_of_bruinen) and I started spreading the word to ou= r friends about our > new group, and the first wave of members joined the S= WG. > > I can't pass this day without thinking of how far we've come in th= at time > and without being grateful to the many of you who have made that = progress > possible. So I would like to thank you all for making this group= more > awesome than I ever could have imagined four years ago. Your hard w= ork, > energy, enthusiasm, and willingness to share your time and talents w= ith us > is what has made the SWG a success. > > So thank you all, and her= e's to many more birthdays! :) > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund >= http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2806 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6659 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2009 20:23:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2009 20:23:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2009 20:23:53 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.45] (helo=elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MVWjg-0008Jl-UK for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:23:52 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:23:52 -0400 Message-ID: <10554421.1248726232898.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:23:52 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791557d9377477e3bd7de0b2fc53ffc2ae350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy 4th Birthday, SWG! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=XwNQLzLDc4G1mqa5TqOO56knjOOGmbTq7QqCUBr8DdAtonnwhg2- X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 *pops champagne cork* Happy Birthday, SWG! Ithilwen -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund Sent: Jul 27, 2009 12:02 PM To: SWG Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Happy 4th Birthday, SWG! Hi, everyone, Today is the official "birthday" of our group. Four years ago, Uli (ford_of_bruinen) and I started spreading the word to our friends about our new group, and the first wave of members joined the SWG. I can't pass this day without thinking of how far we've come in that time and without being grateful to the many of you who have made that progress possible. So I would like to thank you all for making this group more awesome than I ever could have imagined four years ago. Your hard work, energy, enthusiasm, and willingness to share your time and talents with us is what has made the SWG a success. So thank you all, and here's to many more birthdays! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2807 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55783 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2009 21:11:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2009 21:11:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2009 21:11:02 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2009 21:10:57 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.13] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jul 2009 21:10:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:10:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Happy 4th Birthday, SWG! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=52U-r0T8dSYgQM5iY4suB6qooWfV-aNuwBOe3goEerZy5WJu5fot7vEbWMpExkdY4NPEuA X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel YAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!! "Does a dance" Happy Birthday to the best archive and= Silmarillion site ever! I'm extremely grateful for finding SWG. It really = is my fandom home now. I love this site because there are so many truly tal= ented writers here. This site also encourages people to bring the craft bac= k into writing, which I am truly thankful for because it's brought the joy = and passion back into writing for me for sure. I love the challenges here, = and am so excited for Akallabeth in August! Thank you Dawn and Uli for mak= ing such a high quality site! Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yah= oogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, everyone, > >= Today is the official "birthday" of our group. Four years ago, Uli > (ford= _of_bruinen) and I started spreading the word to our friends about our > ne= w group, and the first wave of members joined the SWG. > > I can't pass thi= s day without thinking of how far we've come in that time > and without bei= ng grateful to the many of you who have made that progress > possible. So I= would like to thank you all for making this group more > awesome than I ev= er could have imagined four years ago. Your hard work, > energy, enthusiasm= , and willingness to share your time and talents with us > is what has made= the SWG a success. > > So thank you all, and here's to many more birthdays= ! :) > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/here= tic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2808 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84314 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 17:50:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 17:50:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 17:50:04 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2009 17:49:13 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2009 17:49:13 -0000 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:49:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Story recommendation ... or three X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=L3yDnNawaEWNHe1ajhV4GAd1Pj8I6SmffVqTwfuwRB2k6ErbhiB3OWU X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard I wanted to rec three very unusual stories written by Lady MSM featuring Ma= glor mostly, but his brothers get enough story time as well. >From the summ= ary of the first story: Being a teenager is hard. It's especially hard when= your father keeps pressuring you to be a smith when all you care about is = music. Smells like Teen Spirit http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/arc= hive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D321 The Young and the Hopeless http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D333 Long Road= to Ruin http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.ph= p?sid=3D399 These stories are wonderfully written in a very unique and fre= sh voice, its engaging and a page turner all the way. Fun character, awesom= e dialogue... comes highly recommended. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2809 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56133 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 18:01:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 18:01:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f220.google.com) (209.85.219.220) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 18:01:50 -0000 X-Received: by ewy20 with SMTP id 20so241274ewy.16 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:00:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.74.78 with SMTP id w56mr2162562wed.105.1248804049589; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:00:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:00:49 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d77ec7c51599046fc7d986 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Story recommendation ... or three X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=XA7qhiFvqAaFNZqKSQp2jf8TFTL950EYMz3LOWKL5AJLkKxj0HfD X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d77ec7c51599046fc7d986 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will second Rhapsy's recommendation here! I was having such a good time reading the first of Lady MSM's stories in this series, but real life took over, and I haven't been able to get back to it, but I *will, *someday. Thanks, Rhapsy, and to everyone else who has contributed recs as well! :) Dawn On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:49 PM, rhapsody_the_bard wrote: > I wanted to rec three very unusual stories written by Lady MSM featuring Maglor mostly, but his brothers get enough story time as well. > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > --0016e6d77ec7c51599046fc7d986 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I will second Rhapsy's recommendation here! I was having such a go= od time reading the first of Lady MSM's stories in this series, but rea= l life took over, and I haven't been able to get back to it, but I = will, someday. Thanks, Rhapsy, and to everyone else who has contribute= d recs as well! :)
=C2=A0
Dawn

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:49 PM, rhapsody_the_bard <rhapsody74@gmail.= com> wrote:
> I wanted to= rec three very unusual stories written by Lady MSM featuring Maglor mostly= , but his brothers get enough story time as well.

=C2=A0
--
= ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org=
--0016e6d77ec7c51599046fc7d986-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2810 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11916 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 19:51:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 19:51:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 19:51:56 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2009 19:51:53 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2009 19:51:53 -0000 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:51:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5-0751916181-0947500321=:3" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Story recommendation ... or three X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=pjgfLXsix--yeGqcnesxML7gz652n4svdOlag_GLEqAHy1RZmWIsYGdj7eBEFswI-6bg_w X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel --5-0751916181-0947500321=:3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Those who know me even somewhat know I'm a die hard Numenorean/2nd Age fan= . But I'm trying to read more on the archive and I am enjoying the stories = a great deal. There's so much talent on this site! I started reading "Bloo= d and Fire" by Clodia http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home= /viewstory.php?sid=3D6\ 18 I really enjoy the poetic language in thi= s story, and I feel it's very well written. I knew it drew me in. I also s= tarted on "The Shadow of Light" by JDE too and am enjoying it. http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D6\ 02 = I'll for sure be coming up with more reccomendations soon! There's just so = much wonderful stuff to read, and I thought I would offer some reccomendati= ons that weren't Numenorean/2nd Age for a change. :-) Roisin --- In Silmar= illionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote:= > > I will second Rhapsy's recommendation here! I was having such a good t= ime > reading the first of Lady MSM's stories in this series, but real life= took > over, and I haven't been able to get back to it, but I *will, *some= day. > Thanks, Rhapsy, and to everyone else who has contributed recs as wel= l! :) > > Dawn > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:49 PM, rhapsody_the_bard rhaps= ody74@...wrote: > > I wanted to rec three very unusual stories written by L= ady MSM featuring > Maglor mostly, but his brothers get enough story time a= s well. > > > > > -- > > ~oOo~ > > Dawn Felagund > > http://themidhavens.ne= t/heretic_loremaster/ > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > > > --5-0751916181-0947500321=:3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Those who know me even somewhat know I'm a die hard Numenorean/2nd Age f= an. But I'm trying to read more on the archive and I am enjoying the storie= s a great deal. There's so much talent on this site!

I started readi= ng "Blood and Fire" by Clodia

http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D618

I really en= joy the poetic language in this story, and I feel it's very well written. I= knew it drew me in.

I also started on "The Shadow of Light" by JDE = too and am enjoying it.

http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D602

I'll for sure be = coming up with more reccomendations soon! There's just so much wonderful st= uff to read, and I thought I would offer some reccomendations that weren't = Numenorean/2nd Age for a change. :-)

Roisin
--- In SilmarillionWr= itersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote:>
> I will second Rhapsy's recommendation here! I was having suc= h a good time
> reading the first of Lady MSM's stories in this serie= s, but real life took
> over, and I haven't been able to get back to = it, but I *will, *someday.
> Thanks, Rhapsy, and to everyone else who= has contributed recs as well! :)
>
> Dawn
>
> On= Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:49 PM, rhapsody_the_bard rhapsody74@...wrote:
&g= t; > I wanted to rec three very unusual stories written by Lady MSM feat= uring
> Maglor mostly, but his brothers get enough story time as well= .
>
>
>
> > --
> > ~oOo~
> >= ; Dawn Felagund
> > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/> > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
> >
>
=

--5-0751916181-0947500321=:3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2811 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36747 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 19:59:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 19:59:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.169.203) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 19:59:49 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n6SJxZET014310 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:59:35 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d00.5c0119b4 (41810) for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:59:33 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1248811173" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Story recommendation ... or three X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=d97B734N0sLlgWPTBXplYKnWxcj6jauY7O0rVYDAI0-qwgfHNXmP X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1248811173 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm a die hard Numenorean/2nd Age fan Well, I'm a die hard First Age fan and I must say that I find it virtually impossible to make a couple or three recommendations for stories in that period here. I'm thinking of doing an LJ fic rec entry to list my top 25 or so.... If I do get around to doing it, I will put up a link here. Oshun **************A bad credit score is 600 & below. Checking won't affect your score. See now! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823322x1201398723/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgI D=62&bcd=JulyBadfooterNO62) -------------------------------1248811173 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
I'm a die hard Numenorean/2nd Age fan
 
Well, I'm a die har= d First Age fan and I must say that I find it virtually impossible to= make a couple or three recommendations for stories in that period here. I= 'm thinking of doing an LJ fic rec entry to list my top 25 or so.... If I = do get around to doing it, I will put up a link here.
 
Oshun

-------------------------------1248811173-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2812 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28709 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 21:34:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 21:34:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 21:34:16 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2009 21:34:02 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2009 21:34:02 -0000 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:34:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Story recommendation ... or three X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=8dYF591IG7i2uqE3k-LPxW5fbR_S5ulYcQ6Z8D2EW74s_Xg6L7bxvbxY4ZOEbeSs8N0hmg X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Oshun, we'll have to trade notes sometimes because I'm not as familiar wit= h 1st Age stuff and would love to get more acclimated in it. :-) "hugs" R= oisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wro= te: > > > > > I'm a die hard Numenorean/2nd Age fan > > > > Well, I'm a die= hard First Age fan and I must say that I find it virtually > impossible to= make a couple or three recommendations for stories in that > period here. = I'm thinking of doing an LJ fic rec entry to list my top 25 or > so.... If = I do get around to doing it, I will put up a link here. > > Oshun > *******= *******A bad credit score is 600 & below. Checking won't affect your > scor= e. See now! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823322x120139872= 3/aol?redir\ =3Dhttp://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=3D668072= &hmpgI > D=3D62&bcd=3DJulyBadfooterNO62) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2813 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77398 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 21:36:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 21:36:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.147) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 21:36:36 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n6SLaKca028588 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:36:20 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.bc3.4f5d889c (41810) for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:36:17 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1248816977" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Story recommendation ... or three X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=jdqT0HzgU_2VqoLom5KeMaK5Jj_PNvAvVgLTcjvvwHDSDw0ztzH2 X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1248816977 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oshun, we'll have to trade notes sometimes It would be a pleasure. I am behind on Second Age stories, but I figure next month will fix that! **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377107x1201454434/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------------------------1248816977 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Oshun, we'll have to trade notes sometimes =
It would be a pleasure. I am be= hind on Second Age stories, but I figure next month will fix that!
-------------------------------1248816977-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2814 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2771 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 21:57:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 21:57:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f195.google.com) (209.85.221.195) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 21:57:51 -0000 X-Received: by qyk33 with SMTP id 33so683496qyk.0 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:56:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.67.207 with SMTP id s15mr7807582qai.128.1248818209452; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:56:49 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: throwing my own recommendation in to the group X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=2WFg9Yb0zDNp9t7CflkXJgJanGLv5Pv0gwdvTUs5_f2p2BZiSSs1Jw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hey guys, I agree with what Oshun said about it being impossible to come up with just three "top" recs in any time period. There's so much good stuff out there. But I recently re-read a Silmarillion favorite (Second Age, but not Numenor-based for once!), and felt the need to share it. It doesn't seem to be up at the SWG, so I hope that's okay. To Sing Of... by Darth Fingon http://henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter.cfm?stid=7883 The summary: "Gil-galad, about to be married to a very nice lady, makes an important discovery about himself with Erestor's help. A heartwarming tale of cluelessness, ill-fitting clothing, impractical pets, and exploitation of Elvish linguistic ambiguity. Very tame slash." What really shines is that it makes such good use of canon details, specifically linguistics, to create (to me) a believable basis for the slash. It's also heartwarming, and Erestor is so funny I had to stop reading several times just so I could breathe. Lots of great characterizations throughout. It's short enough to read in one sitting (~8800 words) but has enough meat to it to make for a good read, for those of you who enjoy longer fics. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2815 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10366 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 22:00:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 22:00:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 22:00:19 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-44a6f74d8211; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:59:52 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d60.533fd489 (41810) for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:59:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:59:49 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1248818389" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] throwing my own recommendation in to the group X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=3ZhV1i0mic2QgDZFanMWLHlSADsIZPaYyS_AE_2s4sACs3DhwOJm X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1248818389 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (~8800 words) but has enough meat to it to make for a good read, for those of you who enjoy longer fics. I second that! Great story. But I'd hardly consider 8,800 words a long fic. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377107x1201454434/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------------------------1248818389 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
(~8800 words) but has enough meat to it to = make for a good read, for
those of you who enjoy longer fics.
I second that! Great story. But I'd= hardly consider 8,800 words a long fic.

-------------------------------1248818389-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2816 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2754 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 22:01:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 22:01:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f225.google.com) (209.85.219.225) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 22:01:28 -0000 X-Received: by ewy25 with SMTP id 25so411889ewy.44 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:01:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.18.199 with SMTP id l49mr2124650wel.23.1248818486900; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:01:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 18:01:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64c2a484cf7db046fcb3697 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] throwing my own recommendation in to the group X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=q5ocyxk83DDhfiCVXvuL7SFsqqfptZFTnsocOv675PABH-NiBwzj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e64c2a484cf7db046fcb3697 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Marta wrote: > It doesn't seem to be up at the SWG, so I hope that's okay. Yes, absolutely! We only recommend that the site be accessible to the public, else the rec isn't useful to most people. :) Other than that, we really want folks to recognize their favorite stories and authors, not to get more site traffic, so wherever the story lives, rec away! I love Darth's stories, but I've not yet read this one. I'll have to add it to my to-read list ... *after* Akallabeth in August, of course! ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e64c2a484cf7db046fcb3697 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Marta <marta.fandom@gmail.com> wrote:> It doesn't seem to be up at the SWG, so I hope that's okay.
Yes, absolutely! We only recommend that the site be accessible to the= public, else the rec isn't useful to most people. :) Other than that, = we really want folks to recognize their favorite stories and authors, not t= o get more site traffic, so wherever the story lives, rec away!

I l= ove Darth's stories, but I've not yet read this one. I'll have = to add it to my to-read list ... after Akallabeth in August, of cour= se! ;)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e64c2a484cf7db046fcb3697-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2817 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45987 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 22:18:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 22:18:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.92.27) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 22:18:58 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 5so232447qwd.15 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:18:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.89.79 with SMTP id d15mr7817789qam.243.1248819496630; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:18:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 18:18:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] throwing my own recommendation in to the group X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=Uc_YQ54fPsmKCDPRhaJlUozQTf38k2QwPMOKpskyeXdJWXNvMZt72Q X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:59 PM, wrote: > > > > > (~8800 words) but has enough meat to it to make for a good read, for > those of you who enjoy longer fics. > > I second that! Great story. But I'd hardly consider 8,800 words a long fic. > Oh, absolutely! I didn't mean that it was a long story. I just meant this: I know some people who enjoy longer reads are often dissatisfied by "short stories". 8800 words isn't itself long, but "To Sing Of" is long enough to tell a real story, not just a snippet of a scene. (Which I write regularly, and am not trashing by any means; I just meant that "To Sing Of" isn't that kind of piece.) My point was this story length is short enough to be read in a single night, but long enough to involve you in its characters and everything. At least I thought so! Marta P.S. - Glad you liked the story. It's very nice IMO. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2818 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84196 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 22:21:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 22:21:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.92.150) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 22:21:19 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so261031qwk.28 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:21:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.53.212 with SMTP id n20mr7856397qag.241.1248819677809; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:21:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 18:21:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] throwing my own recommendation in to the group X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=7dJmLabEm1MWpS-DoITzAZgCUX202RWacpV-uh1M2qPNLVnpKljxWw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Marta wrote: >> It doesn't seem to be up at the SWG, so I hope that's okay. > > Yes, absolutely! We only recommend that the site be accessible to the > public, else the rec isn't useful to most people. :) Other than that, we > really want folks to recognize their favorite stories and authors, not to > get more site traffic, so wherever the story lives, rec away! > I figured as much! I do like supporting SWG so tend to link there first, if it's available; but I didn't think we were reccing *just* SWG fics and am glad to have that confirmed. > I love Darth's stories, but I've not yet read this one. I'll have to add it > to my to-read list ... after Akallabeth in August, of course! ;) > LOL. It will still be there.... Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2819 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22832 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2009 22:40:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2009 22:40:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2009 22:40:21 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2009 22:39:59 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2009 22:39:59 -0000 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:39:59 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "angelica.ramses" Subject: Re: Story recommendation ... or three X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=l6MfgSfus65rXCwiVIvtPFvR9Fo5J1h6MRL69DoQROWLF7WIQf1kuon9 X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses Yes! I also second Rhapsody's rec: fun, fresh, original,very good use of an= achronisms. Lady MSM's teenFeanorians are delightful. On another vein, I'd= like to recommend Feta's stories, especially the very dark, beautifully wr= itten Just one Victory. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/ho= me/viewstory.php?sid=3D323 It's a WIP, but I hope the next chapters will c= ome soon (suspense is killing me) Angelica --- In SilmarillionWritersGui= ld@yahoogroups.com, "rhapsody_the_bard" wrote: > > I wante= d to rec three very unusual stories written by Lady MSM featuring Maglor mo= stly, but his brothers get enough story time as well. > > From the summary= of the first story: > Being a teenager is hard. It's especially hard when = your father keeps pressuring you to be a smith when all you care about is m= usic. > > Smells like Teen Spirit > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D321 > > The Young and the Hopeless > h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D333= > > Long Road to Ruin > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/= home/viewstory.php?sid=3D399 > > These stories are wonderfully written in = a very unique and fresh voice, its engaging and a page turner all the way. = Fun character, awesome dialogue... comes highly recommended. > > Rhapsody = > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2820 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15809 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2009 16:12:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2009 16:12:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2009 16:12:56 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2009 16:12:43 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.14] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2009 16:12:43 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:12:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="4-5756470427-5037171007=:7" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "alassante7" Subject: Humor is Priceless - Recommendations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=YplEJ8GbPxqfKr4DlleubVxSZ2nxZdHy5GOvPH_vDJVcqn-MNw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --4-5756470427-5037171007=:7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As serious as the First Age was, I love seeing the funny side of things. I= have to recommend two of Ignoble Bard's stories. I Ain't Got No Body http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D3\ 39 = And this is one of my all time favorites: The Unbearable Smugness = of Being (Feanor) http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/vie= wstory.php?sid=3D1\ 56 I have a couple of others that I just realiz= ed are only on OSA so I need to convince the authors to post them at SWG. = --4-5756470427-5037171007=:7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As serious as the First Age was, I love seeing the funny side of things.= I have to recommend two of Ignoble Bard's stories.

I Ain't= Got No Body
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D339

 

And this = is one of my all time favorites:
The Unbearable Smugness of Bein= g (Feanor)

http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D156


I have a couple = of others that I just realized are only on OSA so I need to convince the au= thors to post them at SWG.

 

--4-5756470427-5037171007=:7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2821 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 51917 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2009 19:19:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2009 19:19:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2009 19:19:17 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1248981525; bh=s2pGVVSbZv25trTUK6kxC6cXelFG8ZggGRVj7m8AJ88=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=bCrKcexs8asrnRa/nyLxics+TUXFq2na69H2IH3kDLUaUVImVNVqYM8S/d3DR44HxJJv/xIEATxhVE8KzvLmuzOTH07LqIQafGFGmTcz1L2kwS07so9ZbxxnQKkknf1L Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2009 19:18:45 -0000 Received: from [98.137.35.14] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2009 19:18:45 -0000 X-Sender: equineinclined@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10333 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2009 18:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2009 18:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2009 18:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2009 18:52:29 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jul 2009 18:52:29 -0000 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:52:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Nieriel Raina" Subject: Re: Humor is Priceless - Recommendations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=212589954; y=XZFIRVvnpypuPQs11D3mAlHdVNxXHkfBeB8rILx-auBm2k2p0bPJ7fA X-Yahoo-Profile: equineinclined X-YGroups-SubInfo: t=0;f=272;g=bkbKNQXrk3iES8Bjx3wRoOSXm7EM2-uwvFEve5wtHW7S9h4vy4vx3xklItRnBzHsmP8; X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 30 Jul 2009 19:18:45 -0000 Oh! Both of those are really great recs, Al! Thanks! NiRi --- In Silmaril= lionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "alassante7" wrote: > > = > As serious as the First Age was, I love seeing the funny side of things.= > I have to recommend two of Ignoble Bard's stories. > > I Ain't Got No B= ody > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?si= d=3D3\ > 39 > 339> > > > > And this is one of my all time favorites: = > The Unbearable Smugness of Being (Feanor) > > http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D1\ > 56 > 156> > > > I = have a couple of others that I just realized are only on OSA so I need > to= convince the authors to post them at SWG. > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2822 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30551 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2009 23:13:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2009 23:13:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2009 23:13:52 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 88363 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jul 2009 23:13:51 -0000 Message-ID: <924303.87429.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: mLUwzRYVM1kjYBKu_fwDUu0eWJjuYhXZNwtEyToIi3tEXdAVMk1srloT2zB_ovL4l4Yzr6Skt0jY02CkTjEzuYHlwfACD4p3.F8jzLMggTifJsaIHn6Ob1h7LZOXeRELA2.8GyXMZGtmGiFMQ4.7sGZHz6rPsPI_xHUioil3CakMjjGtYHPo6p1CfOzhtsyvrELpQPMndGe6PwA7sbMsook5wPAICBicE1MwBzlRdpUDawvVhTmGOkjh8_9g7YFLt._waM2AlipLoGZwZFNUPL41ow-- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:13:51 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.0.19 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:13:51 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-838203269-1248995631=:87429" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=aT66dJzpsk7C19eHBLCYoXA_uMuIjXODk_NCpxvL0LKHVx3b7Q X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-838203269-1248995631=:87429 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Isn't there an illustration by one of the famous Tolkien artists of the fir= st time the elves saw the moon rise? I thought Ted Nasmith did one but I di= dn't see it on his website. ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall ta= ke my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:= =A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 = =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0= -:|:- --0-838203269-1248995631=:87429 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--0-838203269-1248995631=:87429-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2823 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55173 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2009 23:29:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2009 23:29:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma03.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.41) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2009 23:29:46 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n6UNT5ag002593 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:29:06 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.c48.3d74467e (41809) for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:28:57 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1248996537" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Cdd5EgkX-CWjBZtRme5NvkhyaFo_tjGxCBznF8NN1714j6P3aAad X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1248996537 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You aren't thinking of The Coming of Fingolfin by Jenny Dolfin, are you? = Shortly after the Noldor led by Fingolfin cross into Middle-earth from the= Helcarax=EB and see the first sunrise? _http://www.chamber-of-records.c= om/tag/tolkien-art/_ (http://www.chamber-of-records.com/tag/tolkien-art/) = Or maybe you are thinking of the painting of the first Elves awakening= in starlight at the shores of Cuivi=E9nen by Ted Nasmith? http://lotr.= neoseeker.com/wiki/Ch:Of_the_Coming_of_the_Elves_and_the_Captivity_of_Melko= r **************Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to S= chool (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223105306x1201716871/aol?r= edir=3Dhttp:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D= 9) -------------------------------1248996537 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
You aren't thinking of The Coming = of Fingolfin by Jenny Dolfin, are you? Shortly after the Noldor led by Fin= golfin cross into Middle-earth from the Helcarax=EB and see the first sunrise? http://www.chamber-of-records.com/tag/tolkien-art/
 
Or maybe you are thinking of the painting  of the first Elves awakening in sta= rlight at the shores of Cuivi=E9nen by Ted Nasmith? http://lotr.n= eoseeker.com/wiki/Ch:Of_the_Coming_of_the_Elves_and_the_Captivity_of_Melkor=

-------------------------------1248996537-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2824 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99417 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2009 23:40:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2009 23:40:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2009 23:40:06 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 2280 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jul 2009 23:39:48 -0000 Message-ID: <828960.783.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 0EvNZWcVM1kCMl9zN4Car6nOk09mtyn7rWmGXcZSppstMELOmGGqBR.LKx33WxFqwFOZDFXWD0LvdP88cMLBlvehLdiYQSmNOhO7CmfM7wwQvV_fZ.8Qzj48BKwpm5MkhTsQOHsBe9HDnEKdnLbopPzL6vVix..wsvwBKJfz2o_RgE68hEEn2dpMlkuyNUqIrgiO0JpACdGG3z8gG_5mLXKqakzBuNj00D5EW0ganB.Z.KxYyxs9uZag9rBkW31gBEGNir1LQi7QPmsMIM45d3oY3zbbiT03HMhfqDad8Tl.aMIuwtMx.vv0N.uCKaI0tLHpEdPKmuKsRbFcW5nRxMGyDpHWk1s3D_KtkbK7Dsn3oNc0HOQ- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:39:48 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.0.19 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:39:48 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1849022458-1248997188=:783" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=cc0k17zNOZ7Vu8C6kdzMvjkpJAdg1chsEzt1TiU143KUnvHuEQ X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1849022458-1248997188=:783 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable oops yeah - it was the starlight one LOL Thanks for clearing that up Oshun.= After I sent that I questioned if it was the moon they saw first or the su= n. ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR T= olkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA= =B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --- On Thu, 7/30/= 09, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: From: heartofoshun@= aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silm= arillion art To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, J= uly 30, 2009, 7:28 PM =A0 You aren't t= hinking of The Coming of Fingolfin by Jenny Dolfin, are you? Shortly after= the Noldor led by Fingolfin cross into Middle-earth from the Helcarax=EB a= nd see the first sunrise? http://www.chamber- of-records. com/tag/tolkien-= art/ =A0 Or maybe you are thinking of the painting=A0 of the first Elves= awakening in starlight at the shores of Cuivi=E9nen by Ted Nasmith? http= ://lotr. neoseeker. com/wiki/ Ch:Of_the_ Coming_of_ the_Elves_ and_the_Capt= ivit y_of_Melkor --0-1849022458-1248997188=:783 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Isn't there an illustration by one of the fam= ous Tolkien artists of the first time the elves saw the moon rise? I though= t Ted Nasmith did one but I didn't see it on his website.

~~**~~
I warn you, if you bor= e me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
=  
=  ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))&n= bsp;  -:=A6:-
    = ;    =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- =
=B0=BA.. <= /span>Alassante .. <= span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt;">=BA=B0<= b style=3D"color: rgb(96, 0, 191);">
&nb= sp;   -:=A6:-    ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-

--0-1849022458-1248997188=:783-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2825 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73710 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2009 00:03:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2009 00:03:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2009 00:03:17 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN1-24a7234aa6e; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:02:50 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d0e.50913d7b (41809) for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:02:46 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1248998566" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 205.188.169.199 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=tddcIBpbY5vfE0gKa9zOEi8CBCZBkbyYioU_8T9EE2ThUoOIjXqa X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1248998566 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After I sent that I questioned if it was the moon they saw first or th= e sun. Yes, it was the moon first and then the sun. In The Silm, Fing= olfin's Noldor see the moon immediately upon leaving Helcarax=EB, "it = was with a lessened host that Fingolfin set foot at last upon the Outer L= ands. Small love for F=EBanor or his sons had those that marched at last = behind him, and blew their trumpets in Middle-earth at the first rising of= the Moon." Then the sunrise is the part with flowers springing up unde= r their feet. "But as the host of Fingolfin marched into Mithrim the Sun= rose flaming in the West; and Fingolfin unfurled his blue and silver ban= ners, and blew his horns, and flowers sprang beneath his marching feet, a= nd the ages of the stars were ended." I would love to see a painting of= the Elves of Middle-earth watching the first rising of the moon in Middl= e-earth. But I do not know of one. Too bad I can't draw--there are a lot = of scenes I would like to see--just have to struggle to paint my versions= with words . . . Oshun **************Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptop= s perfect for Back to School (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x122= 3105306x1201716871/aol?redir=3Dhttp:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2= F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D9) -------------------------------1248998566 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
 
After I sent that I questioned if it was the moon t= hey saw first or the sun.
&= nbsp;
Yes, it was the moon first and then the sun. In The Silm, = Fingolfin's Noldor see the moon immediately upon leaving Helcarax=EB,
 
"it was with a lessened host that Fingolfin set foo= t at last upon the Outer Lands. Small love for F=EBanor or his sons had th= ose that marched at last behind him, and blew their trumpets in Middle-ear= th at the first rising of the Moon."
 
Then the sunrise is th= e part with flowers springing up under their feet.
 
"But as the host of Fingolfin marched into Mithrim the S= un rose flaming in the West; and Fingolfin unfurled his blue and silver ba= nners, and blew his horns, and flowers sprang beneath his marching feet, a= nd the ages of the stars were ended."
 =
I would love to see a painting of the Elves of Middle-earth wat= ching the first rising of the moon in Middle-earth. But I do not know= of one. Too bad I can't draw--there are a lot of scenes I would like to s= ee--just have to struggle to paint my versions with words . . .

Os= hun

-------------------------------1248998566-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2826 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31066 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2009 00:15:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2009 00:15:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2009 00:15:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 16309 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2009 00:15:38 -0000 Message-ID: <844427.16014.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: f5npC6oVM1n0H2nDQd33CCorFez2e6k.xAsadgmmIDzT4An_QT9z6Pj8U0BDeXU9YjP85ocmXutsLKfqDUBfelAYGotyg.Lrqad.6aujrl3h0n_62psXzZ1WBSFyrNUUWbKl_VCEQIHUEN2Ti42RHw4qlVKNeIwNLPRLbQErYjj7NX6qlAELhGUQqXM9mnfFYapio.t88Mtn2K6UYKqIAWjCBrCA0fcJTtKsqRk5.HvSxsURpC8pAvH_KxRki_XuptoCEAsG9YgrECRXH724bmueM74MABYWyxA2ESEzfrTrTHx3fDpl7ZwdPZa8tvZzq69pYwBv97ISASm49ROEt1Q- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:15:37 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.0.19 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:15:37 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-742588044-1248999337=:16014" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=WwQ6pttbjH_dg1VYABW0W7jErza1YGlTyVPhK2wnOUCBW_f3Tg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-742588044-1248999337=:16014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes I wish I had the artist gene too. So many Silm scenes need to be painte= d or drawn. Or they already are and I don't see it that way in my head. ~~= **~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien= =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 = =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --- On Thu, 7/30/09, = heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: From: heartofoshun@aol.= com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmaril= lion art To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July = 30, 2009, 8:02 PM =A0 =A0 After I sent= that I questioned if it was the moon they saw first or the sun. =A0 = Yes, it was the moon first and then the sun. In The Silm, Fingolfin's Nold= or see the moon immediately upon leaving Helcarax=EB, =A0 "it was with a l= essened host that Fingolfin set foot at last upon the Outer Lands. Small l= ove for F=EBanor or his sons had those that marched at last behind him, an= d blew their trumpets in Middle-earth at the first rising of the Moon." = =A0 Then the sunrise is the part with flowers springing up under their fee= t. =A0 "But as the host of Fingolfin marched into Mithrim the Sun rose fl= aming in the West; and Fingolfin unfurled his blue and silver banners, and= blew his horns, and flowers sprang beneath his marching feet, and the ages= of the stars were ended." =A0 I would love to see a painting of the Elves= of Middle-earth watching the first rising=A0of the moon in Middle-earth. = But I do not know of one. Too bad I can't draw--there are a lot of scenes = I would like to see--just have to struggle to paint my versions with words= . . . Oshun --0-742588044-1248999337=:16014 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
oops yeah - it was the starlight one LOL Than= ks for clearing that up Oshun. After I sent that I questioned if it was the= moon they saw first or the sun.

~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my rev= enge. 
JRR Tolkien
=  
 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:-
        =B8.= =B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante<= /b> .. =BA=B0
    -:=A6:-&= nbsp;   ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-


--- On Thu, 7/30/09, heart= ofoshun@aol.com wrote:

From: heartofoshun@aol.com =
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art
To: Silmar= illionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 7:28 P= M

&nbs= p;

You aren't thinking of The Comin= g of Fingolfin by Jenny Dolfin, are you? Shortly after the Noldor led by F= ingolfin cross into Middle-earth from the Helcarax=EB and see the first sunrise? http://www.chamber-= of-records. com/tag/tolkien- art/
 
Or maybe you are thinking of the pai= nting  of the fi= rst Elves awakening in starlight at the shores of Cuivi=E9nen= by Ted Nasmith? http://lotr. neoseeker. com/wiki/ Ch:Of_the_ Coming_of_ = the_Elves_ and_the_Captivit y_of_Melkor


=
Yes I wish I had the artist gene too. So many= Silm scenes need to be painted or drawn. Or they already are and I don't s= ee it that way in my head.

<= font color=3D"#002f80" size=3D"3" face=3D"Arial">
~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge<= /strong>. 
JRR Tolkien=
 
 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:-
        =B8.=B7= =B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante= .. =BA=B0
=     -:=A6:-&nbs= p;   ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-<= /div>


--- On Thu, 7/30/09, heartofo= shun@aol.com wrote:

From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art
To: Silmarill= ionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 8:02 PM
 <= /span>

 
After I sent = that I questioned if it was the moon they saw first or the sun.
 
Yes, it was the m= oon first and then the sun. In The Silm, Fingolfin's Noldor see the moon i= mmediately upon leaving Helcarax=EB,
 
"it was with a lessened host that Fingolfin set foot at l= ast upon the Outer Lands. Small love for F=EBanor or his sons had those th= at marched at last behind him, and blew their trumpets in Middle-earth at = the first rising of the Moon."
 
Then the sunrise is the part with flowers springing up under their = feet.
 
"But as the host of Fingolfin marched into Mithrim the Sun rose flaming i= n the West; and Fingolfin unfurled his blue and silver banners, and blew h= is horns, and flowers sprang beneath his marching feet, and the ages of th= e stars were ended."
 
I woul= d love to see a painting of the Elves of Middle-earth watching the first r= ising of the moon in Middle-earth. But I do not know of one. Too bad = I can't draw--there are a lot of scenes I would like to see--just have to = struggle to paint my versions with words . . .

Oshun

<= font style=3D"color: black; font-family: arial,san-serif; font-style: norma= l; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height:= normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none= ;">

--0-742588044-1248999337=:16014-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2827 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96597 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2009 01:09:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2009 01:09:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2009 01:09:51 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.35] (helo=elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MWgd5-0001u0-Bp for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:09:51 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:09:51 -0400 Message-ID: <20008070.1249002591310.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:09:51 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec795aa51ba9c52c086167f07a0a26f5ad5b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=2vFyPRu2oMtEron2bPE_rXebEp0fHdfMBJmQW7-WXm3rI615QS-H X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Maybe Lady Elleth could be persuaded to do that scene? She's got a lot of talent! Ithilwen -----Original Message----- From: heartofoshun@aol.com Sent: Jul 30, 2009 8:02 PM To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art I would love to see a painting of the Elves of Middle-earth watching the first rising of the moon in Middle-earth. But I do not know of one. Too bad I can't draw--there are a lot of scenes I would like to see--just have to struggle to paint my versions with words . . . Oshun From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2828 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55186 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2009 01:24:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2009 01:24:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.143) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2009 01:24:00 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-da01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n6V1NpBK029119 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:23:51 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d1d.4dc4547f (41809) for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:23:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:23:47 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1249003427" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=wwcIbKt4NcKWS7kDShahufhOsDs5C-srl4UV840kv5cfTL01Fc1b X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1249003427 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe Lady Elleth could be persuaded to do that scene? She's got a lot of talent! Ithilwen Oh! She would be perfect! I love what she has done. Oshun **************Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223105306x1201716871/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D9) -------------------------------1249003427 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Maybe Lady Elleth could be persuaded to do that s= cene? She's got a lot of talent!

Ithilwen
Oh! She would be perfect! I love what she has done.
 
Oshun

 
 

= -------------------------------1249003427-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2829 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70397 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2009 01:31:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2009 01:31:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2009 01:31:35 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 12257 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2009 01:31:27 -0000 Message-ID: <342661.12239.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: y4bqXAAVM1mRCDdPMMOIZ6ggWwRvpAWlk_YehQ312u9F74FYwBYe2mAbjVhUGEFoxo4AJ0hHtw5vyewPlpOUpFt0hAjmeGq2vFd_5D8Doh2k6DdyXN6sMHjxlCEe4dql4V87VHIFxP1pTY92HVF79tz2yidbdK_V8mqN_Oe1BgjFGpndt3lEzNVe5p3Aa38.g0cMghKf052SOitIANZOxDKd27R4Sbjq9l0TyoP7v2gX94p6h03FNFoXs6iYWb5VKXUJRN83JL4Vm.EVO2Yd7YStckXofT6tf88zQFxo0TSo_WWOm0shLK16HlkgvaTKI_G3s8KcGkLzAbTTgJWgNWl4qrjhwYeX7QPIVSYeYfKQ1W0w_3U- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:31:26 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.0.19 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:31:26 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1786726509-1249003886=:12239" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=Ea0oxKLFdgy54UJqduBngPEsPColNWSbNyxsiE50togJ1PKuWg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1786726509-1249003886=:12239 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LadyElleth - how much would we have to beg? =3DD ~~**~~ I warn you, if yo= u bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7= *=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8= =A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0= ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --- On Thu, 7/30/09, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: From: heartofoshun@aol.com = Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art To: SilmarillionW= ritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 9:23 PM = =A0 =A0 Maybe Lady Elleth could be persuad= ed to do that scene? She's got a lot of talent! Ithilwen Oh! She would = be perfect! I love what she has done. =A0 Oshun =A0 =A0 = --0-1786726509-1249003886=:12239 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
LadyElleth - how much would we have to beg? = =3DD

~~**~~
= I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.  =
JRR Tolkien
 
=
 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:- =
&= nbsp;       =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))&= nbsp; -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0
    -:=A6:-    ((=B8=B8.= =B7=B4*  -:|:-
<= font face=3D"verdana, helvetica, sans-serif">


--- On Thu, 7/30/09, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:

From: h= eartofoshun@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Silmarill= ionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogrou= ps.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 9:23 PM

 

 
Maybe Lady Elleth could be per= suaded to do that scene? She's got a lot of talent!

Ithilwen
Oh! She would be perfect! I love what she has done.
 
Oshun

 
=
 


=

--0-1786726509-1249003886=:12239-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2830 Return-Path: X-Sender: nerdanel.istarnie@googlemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21719 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2009 01:45:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2009 01:45:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f225.google.com) (209.85.219.225) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2009 01:45:49 -0000 X-Received: by ewy25 with SMTP id 25so1323153ewy.33 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:44:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.18.84 with SMTP id k62mr415046wek.126.1249004689161; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:44:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20008070.1249002591310.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <20008070.1249002591310.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:44:49 +0200 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364d1dc5d1fd11046ff690bb X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Elleth Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=401407033; y=HUNeTXLU7mhfEy5YlRTNWNIjFrWREsMmYTD_kIjpGDR8Izak5A X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth --0016364d1dc5d1fd11046ff690bb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waaaaitamoment, who gave you access to go snooping around my harddrive? :P No, seriously. Moonrise across Helcaraxe has been in the works for a while. I'm not promising that anything will come of it, and for now AinA takes precedence, but... Elleth 2009/7/31 Diana Nevins > > > Maybe Lady Elleth could be persuaded to do that scene? She's got a lot of > talent! > > Ithilwen > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: heartofoshun@aol.com > > Sent: Jul 30, 2009 8:02 PM > > To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art > > I would love to see a painting of the Elves of Middle-earth watching the > first rising of the moon in Middle-earth. But I do not know of one. Too bad > > I can't draw--there are a lot of scenes I would like to see--just have to > struggle to paint my versions with words . . > . > > Oshun > > > > --0016364d1dc5d1fd11046ff690bb Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Waaaaitamoment, who gave you access to go snooping around my harddrive? :P =
No, seriously. Moonrise across Helcaraxe has been in the works for a wh= ile. I'm not promising that anything will come of it, and for now AinA = takes precedence, but...

Elleth

2= 009/7/31 Diana Nevins <dlnevins@earthlink.net>
=A0
<= div style=3D"margin: 0pt; padding: 0pt 25px 0pt 0pt; width: 470px; float: l= eft;">

Maybe Lady Elleth could be persuaded= to do that scene? She's got a lot of talent!

Ithilwen



-----Original Message-----

From: heartofoshun@aol.com

Sent: Jul 30, 2009 8:02 PM

To: SilmarillionWriter= sGuild@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild]= Silmarillion art

I would love to see a pa= inting of the Elves of Middle-earth watching the
first rising of the m= oon in Middle-earth. But I do not know of one. Too bad
I can't dra= w--there are a lot of scenes I would like to see--just have to
struggl= e to paint my versions with words . .
.

Oshun


=

--0016364d1dc5d1fd11046ff690bb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2831 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55000 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2009 01:48:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2009 01:48:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma03.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.41) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2009 01:48:17 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n6V1m5wp024478 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:48:05 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d21.56bd853e (41809) for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:48:02 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1249004882" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=IXpTLkMw0R637UV839rbgSyO7WLcq_pAQh87DAJ6Fg6p3iomFWGX X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1249004882 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit who gave you access to go snooping around my harddrive? :P No, seriously. Moonrise across Helcaraxe has been in the works for a while. Woohoo! I am totally excited now. Please take your time. I'm willing to wait. Something to look forward to. Oshun **************Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223105306x1201716871/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D9) -------------------------------1249004882 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
who gave you access to go snooping around m= y harddrive? :P
No, seriously. Moonrise across Helcaraxe has been in= the works for a while.
 <= /DIV>
Woohoo! I am totally excited now. Please take your time. I'm wil= ling to wait. Something to look forward to.
 
O= shun

-------------------------------1249004882-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2832 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88110 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2009 02:03:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2009 02:03:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2009 02:03:42 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 65962 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2009 02:03:25 -0000 Message-ID: <359808.65163.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: B_Sn_WgVM1l5cmYfmP7KX1mZdzienOuaMnFvmiUbLEhNwxQy1bLjftXk1dm2PcV9ALIWSTEjazInDTbpHn_HWUqDKr867on1W7uWxiDwDXlElpDnl2ZBxWoG_WeCNb7XH3qqH3pRtjuuxgxyUGFRESvsUMqhA.HY5cRgSaHMQhhJ6gyO6FdQrojZk1OJv6_z9BR37gJCfjU1FCB3vmHrODNK5liROYvYr8pJ3PniCw.JrlYibh1OEsl8hq4kKODTcW9jfcwXUc318vqIFGr1zGrHyjt.ZE_NCukunj41pDY28jp6LTfezUlouacINxcqHA15ewRiINe2JMhjYNpMirw- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:03:25 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.0.19 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:03:25 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-455220235-1249005805=:65163" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=-RFQrCpLOeH9oiGdkECUoq5mDN98zqrUB2_Aqs1fV_QUVXiYGw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-455220235-1249005805=:65163 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I didn't touch your 'hard drive' lol *giggles* I'll wait! ~~**~~ I warn= you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 = =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 = .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:= -=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Elleth wrote: From: Elleth Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art To: Silmari= llionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 9:44 PM = =A0 Waaaaitamoment, who gave you access to g= o snooping around my harddrive? :P No, seriously. Moonrise across Helcarax= e has been in the works for a while. I'm not promising that anything will c= ome of it, and for now AinA takes precedence, but... Elleth 2009/7/31 Di= ana Nevins =A0 = Maybe Lady Elleth could be persuaded to do that scene? She's got a l= ot of talent! Ithilwen -----Original Message----- From: heartofosh= un@ aol.com Sent: Jul 30, 2009 8:02 PM To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@= yahoogroup s.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Silmarillion a= rt I would love to see a painting of the Elves of Middle-earth watching = the first rising of the moon in Middle-earth. But I do not know of one. T= oo bad I can't draw--there are a lot of scenes I would like to see--just = have to struggle to paint my versions with words . . . Oshun = = --0-455220235-1249005805=:65163 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I didn't touch your 'hard drive' lol

= *giggles* I'll wait!

~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 = ;
=
 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:- =
        =B8.=B7=B4  = .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante= = .. = =BA=B0
    -:=A6:-  = ;  ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-


--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Elleth wrote:

From: Elleth
Subject: R= e: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art
To: SilmarillionWritersGu= ild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 9:44 PM

  =

Waaaaitamoment, who gave you a= ccess to go snooping around my harddrive? :P
No, seriously. Moonrise ac= ross Helcaraxe has been in the works for a while. I'm not promising that an= ything will come of it, and for now AinA takes precedence, but...

E= lleth

2009/7/31 Diana Nevins <dlnevin= s@earthlink. net>
 
=

Maybe Lady Elleth could be persuaded to do tha= t scene? She's got a lot of talent!

Ithilwen



-----Original Message-----

From: heartofoshun@ aol.com

Sent: Ju= l 30, 2009 8:02 PM

To: SilmarillionWriters Guil= d@yahoogroup s.com

Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Si= lmarillion art

I would love to see a paint= ing of the Elves of Middle-earth watching the
first rising of the moon= in Middle-earth. But I do not know of one. Too bad
I can't draw--ther= e are a lot of scenes I would like to see--just have to
struggle to pa= int my versions with words . .
.

Oshun


=
=

=

--0-455220235-1249005805=:65163-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2833 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17463 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2009 02:50:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2009 02:50:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.66) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2009 02:50:13 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.35] (helo=elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MWiCD-0002jo-Pu for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 22:50:13 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 22:50:13 -0400 Message-ID: <18397249.1249008613778.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 22:50:13 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7949ac28a6d0c1cd37138e497aec4171f3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=VUAUFQBVhh9IjI6otN7lfevdXGF18Ma1x4ttPvoNqJrhPg-9QlVo X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Since when do I need permission to be a sneak? ;-) I'm thrilled to hear you're working on this! And the fall, when the Harvest Moon and the Hunter's Moon occur, would be a perfect time to finish it up! :D Ithilwen -----Original Message----- From: Elleth Sent: Jul 30, 2009 9:44 PM To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art Waaaaitamoment, who gave you access to go snooping around my harddrive? :P No, seriously. Moonrise across Helcaraxe has been in the works for a while. I'm not promising that anything will come of it, and for now AinA takes precedence, but... Elleth 2009/7/31 Diana Nevins Maybe Lady Elleth could be persuaded to do that scene? She's got a lot of talent! Ithilwen -----Original Message----- From: heartofoshun@aol.com Sent: Jul 30, 2009 8:02 PM To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion art I would love to see a painting of the Elves of Middle-earth watching the first rising of the moon in Middle-earth. But I do not know of one. Too bad I can't draw--there are a lot of scenes I would like to see--just have to struggle to paint my versions with words . . . Oshun From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2834 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51165 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2009 04:40:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2009 04:40:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f217.google.com) (209.85.219.217) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2009 04:40:05 -0000 X-Received: by ewy17 with SMTP id 17so1493455ewy.2 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:39:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.20.67 with SMTP id o45mr689993weo.106.1249101582876; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 00:39:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c780722c2b404700d20d4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=J4Qd3O76DK8RmqMn86v5KsVXY0MQXXO-eI5xZ0esQGZHttB1lSop X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364c780722c2b404700d20d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The first entries for Akallabeth in August have been posted! As most of you= probably know by now, we will be roughly following the chronology set for = in the *Akallabeth* to creatively "retell" this book of *The Silmarillion.*= Participants signed up for a topic in the chronology, and their entry eithe= r concerned the topic directly or took place at roughly that period in time= , giving us a more or less chronological body of stories, poems, and artwor= k from the founding of Numenor to its downfall. The main Akallabeth in Aug= ust page is here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-au= gust/ There will be at least one new entry posted each day. Today, there a= re two, since one is an artwork. --- "Now Elros and Elrond his brother we= re descended from the Three Houses of the Edain, but in part also both from= the Eldar and the Maiar; for Idril of Gondolin and L=C3=BAthien daughter o= f Melian were their foremothers. The Valar indeed may not withdraw the gift= of death, which comes to Men from Il=C3=BAvatar, but in the matter of the = Half-elven Il=C3=BAvatar gave to them the judgement; and they judged that t= o the sons of E=C3=A4rendil should be given choice of their own destiny." = "Never Look Back" by Independence1776 http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/akallabeth-in-august/1-1.php --- "Then the Edain set sail upon the dee= p waters, following the Star; and the Valar laid a peace upon the sea for m= any days, and sent sunlight and a sailing wind, so that the waters glittere= d before the eyes of the Edain like rippling glass, and the foam flew like = snow before the stems of their ships." "Elenna" by Lyra http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/1-2.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund= http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org --0016364c780722c2b404700d20d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The first entries for Akallabeth in August have been posted! As most of you= probably know by now, we will be roughly following the chronology set for = in the Akallabeth to creatively "retell" this book of T= he Silmarillion. Participants signed up for a topic in the chronology, = and their entry either concerned the topic directly or took place at roughl= y that period in time, giving us a more or less chronological body of stori= es, poems, and artwork from the founding of Numenor to its downfall.
The main Akallabeth in August page is here:

http://www.silmarillion= writersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/

There will be at least on= e new entry posted each day. Today, there are two, since one is an artwork.=

---

"Now Elros and Elrond his brother were descended f= rom the Three Houses of the Edain, but in part also both from the Eldar and= the Maiar; for Idril of Gondolin and L=C3=BAthien daughter of Melian were = their foremothers. The Valar indeed may not withdraw the gift of death, whi= ch comes to Men from Il=C3=BAvatar, but in the matter of the Half-elven Il= =C3=BAvatar gave to them the judgement; and they judged that to the sons of= E=C3=A4rendil should be given choice of their own destiny."

&q= uot;Never Look Back" by Independence1776
http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/1-1.php

---

&qu= ot;Then the Edain set sail upon the deep waters, following the Star; and th= e Valar laid a peace upon the sea for many days, and sent sunlight and a sa= iling wind, so that the waters glittered before the eyes of the Edain like = rippling glass, and the foam flew like snow before the stems of their ships= ."

"Elenna" by Lyra
http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/1-2.php

-- <= br>~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg
--0016364c780722c2b404700d20d4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2835 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3808 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2009 04:45:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2009 04:45:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2009 04:45:32 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imo-m22.mail.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN1-24a73c829125; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 00:44:25 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.cf9.5e49678f (41811) for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2009 00:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 00:44:21 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1249101861" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-IP: 64.12.78.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=Ytm3nBiJkVqa78sFe_-bu9XWAgR83-G8f39ZGaD0PiHFouGQlXWz X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1249101861 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Elenna" by Lyra That painting is gorgeous! Love it. Oshun **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------------------------1249101861 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
"Elenna" by Lyra
That painting is gorgeous! Love it.
 <= /DIV>
Oshun

-------------------------------1249101861-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2836 Return-Path: X-Sender: nerdanel.istarnie@googlemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93580 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2009 04:50:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2009 04:50:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f208.google.com) (209.85.219.208) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2009 04:50:03 -0000 X-Received: by ewy4 with SMTP id 4so755ewy.27 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:48:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.70.143 with SMTP id p15mr652905wed.115.1249102121412; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:48:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 06:48:41 +0200 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502d1a43c29e904700d40e7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Elleth Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=401407033; y=xcZ_mbC6vR5fibhRpfqeFs8zf89qu360XS7IuBfowgoR8f0FWA X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth --00504502d1a43c29e904700d40e7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It really is! (And it completely managed to slip my mind that it's August already. AinA is going to be like an advent calendar, only better, so thanks, Dawn, and everyone helping and participating!) Elleth 2009/8/1 > > > > > "Elenna" by Lyra > > That painting is gorgeous! Love it. > > Oshun > > ------------------------------ > > --00504502d1a43c29e904700d40e7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It really is!

(And it completely managed to slip my mind that it= 9;s August already. AinA is going to be like an advent calendar, only bette= r, so thanks, Dawn, and everyone helping and participating!)

Elleth=

2009/8/1 <heartofoshun@aol.com>
=A0

=A0
"Elenna" by = Lyra
That painting is gorgeo= us! Love it.
=A0
Oshun


=

--00504502d1a43c29e904700d40e7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2837 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27952 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2009 17:46:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2009 17:46:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ey-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.78.24) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2009 17:46:55 -0000 X-Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so598664eyd.7 for ; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 10:45:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.1.81 with SMTP id 59mr742375wec.155.1249148754356; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 10:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:45:54 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364d2c99c66a6c0470181b0a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: August 2009 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=SUXTbwCL0dtr7D0RjsGsuAp5Ne-urgBRSbksTWWcZK_jOjTWVoYv X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364d2c99c66a6c0470181b0a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, all, I just uploaded the August 2009 newsletter to our site: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php In my opinion (only slightly biased ;), it's a good one. Besides the news for the month (and a complete list of Second Age stories on the archive for Akallabeth in August), we have three new columns this month. In honor of Akallabeth in August, Russandol has written a character biography of Ar-Pharazon that delves into some of the more intriguing questions--and the very intriguing evolution!--of his character. Darth Fingon's "Linguistic Foolery" looks at some of the fanon "truths" about Elves that we've all heard and debunks them using the source materials and linguistic evidence. Finally, Angelica's "A Sense of History" considers the *Akallabeth*'s roots in the ancient Greek Atlantis legend. For challenges, we continue with Fanon Inverted for one more month and, of course, Akallabeth in August. We encourage everyone to consider adopting a Second Age bunny; I think the offerings for Akallabeth in August will certainly be inspiring! And, finally, there is a whole host of announcements from Tolkien groups outside of SWG: challenges, awards, and new archives. Again, you can always find the group's current newsletter here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php Happy reading! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364d2c99c66a6c0470181b0a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all,

I just uploaded the August 2009 newsletter to our si= te:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php
=
In my opinion (only slightly biased ;), it's a good one. Besides t= he news for the month (and a complete list of Second Age stories on the arc= hive for Akallabeth in August), we have three new columns this month. In ho= nor of Akallabeth in August, Russandol has written a character biography of= Ar-Pharazon that delves into some of the more intriguing questions--and th= e very intriguing evolution!--of his character. Darth Fingon's "Li= nguistic Foolery" looks at some of the fanon "truths" about = Elves that we've all heard and debunks them using the source materials = and linguistic evidence. Finally, Angelica's "A Sense of History&q= uot; considers the Akallabeth's roots in the ancient Greek Atlan= tis legend.

For challenges, we continue with Fanon Inverted for one= more month and, of course, Akallabeth in August. We encourage everyone to = consider adopting a Second Age bunny; I think the offerings for Akallabeth = in August will certainly be inspiring!

And, finally, there is a who= le host of announcements from Tolkien groups outside of SWG: challenges, aw= ards, and new archives.

Again, you can always find the group's c= urrent newsletter here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/ne= wsletter.php

Happy reading! :)

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--0016364d2c99c66a6c0470181b0a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2838 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18223 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2009 20:20:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2009 20:20:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.92.24) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2009 20:20:28 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so1537328qwb.55 for ; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 13:19:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.37.69 with SMTP id w5mr3298071qad.250.1249157968251; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 13:19:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:19:28 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=A-ZzI_6SH4iGRtUcOG-p4t_G_CR6PmM8PNgwzoYstZ3WBwvACvAiWQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:44 AM, wrote: > > > > > "Elenna" by Lyra > > That painting is gorgeous! Love it. > > Oshun > Must second what Oshun said. Nicely done! I skimmed the story as well and it looks very nice as well. I have been cleaning up the apartment of a recently moved-out friend in my apt. building all afternoon, so my brain is at the "nrrrgh" stage where it can appreciate beautiful art but can't quite manage beautiful fic. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow I will be able to come back and read it, and if I get swept away by other AnA shinies, it is definitely going on my "wish list" to read someday. Thanks in advance to all the contributing artists. This is so much fun. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2839 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57849 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2009 22:59:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2009 22:59:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2009 22:59:01 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2009 22:58:48 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2009 22:58:48 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 22:58:48 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=C6jFNbNMRssHyAGJOeK2ADlrGGlnOx3x90LzmxbZcNfFAJiNMke4jJnl X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 The site is gorgeous! I love the illuminated border and the "vellum" backg= round. You all deserve accolades for creating a lovely virtual illuminated = book for this event. *applauds* OK, now where is the link to this wonderfu= l site on the SWG that I am missing? Should it be front and center of the = Home page? Or is it (ahem) buried somewhere? You'll have to forgive this = doddering old Luddite for not finding it obvious. --- In SilmarillionWr= itersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > The= first entries for Akallabeth in August have been posted! As most of you > = probably know by now, we will be roughly following the chronology set for i= n > the *Akallabeth* to creatively "retell" this book of *The > Silmarillio= n.*Participants signed up for a topic in the chronology, > and their entry = either > concerned the topic directly or took place at roughly that period = in time, > giving us a more or less chronological body of stories, poems, a= nd artwork > from the founding of Numenor to its downfall. > > The main Ak= allabeth in August page is here: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/akallabeth-in-august/ > > There will be at least one new entry posted e= ach day. Today, there are two, > since one is an artwork. > > --- > > "No= w Elros and Elrond his brother were descended from the Three Houses of > th= e Edain, but in part also both from the Eldar and the Maiar; for Idril of >= Gondolin and L=C3=BAthien daughter of Melian were their foremothers. The V= alar > indeed may not withdraw the gift of death, which comes to Men from I= l=C3=BAvatar, > but in the matter of the Half-elven Il=C3=BAvatar gave to t= hem the judgement; and > they judged that to the sons of E=C3=A4rendil shou= ld be given choice of their own > destiny." > > "Never Look Back" by Indep= endence1776 > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/= 1-1.php > > --- > > "Then the Edain set sail upon the deep waters, follow= ing the Star; and the > Valar laid a peace upon the sea for many days, and = sent sunlight and a > sailing wind, so that the waters glittered before the= eyes of the Edain like > rippling glass, and the foam flew like snow befor= e the stems of their > ships." > > "Elenna" by Lyra > http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/1-2.php > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Fe= lagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2840 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15846 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2009 23:25:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2009 23:25:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.145) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2009 23:25:55 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n71NPAn3028937 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:25:10 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d68.48471e39 (39329) for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:25:41 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1249169141" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=rVFHjqWZGX5-b5t04uOPHYeA6Z4rVjB4TdMoovIzja0473c_qOAW X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1249169141 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, now where is the link to this wonderful site on the SWG that I am missing? Should it be front and center of the Home page? Or is it (ahem) buried somewhere? You'll have to forgive this doddering old Luddite for not finding it obvious. I figured it out! First time ever for me on something like this. On either side of the Turn-the-Page announcement in the center of the screen are little leaves that are the forward and back arrows. Hey, I spent almost two days clicking on the "turn-the-page" line and getting no where, without have the sense to ask. I am not the sharpest tool in the shed for sure. Oshun **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------------------------1249169141 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
OK, now where is the link to this wonderful site = on the SWG that I am missing? Should it be front and center of the Home = page? Or is it (ahem) buried somewhere? You'll have to forgive this dodd= ering old Luddite for not finding it obvious.
&= nbsp;
I figured it out! First time ever for me on something like= this. On either side of the Turn-the-Page announcement in the center= of the screen are little leaves that are the forward and back arrows.
=
Hey, I spent almost two days clicking on the "turn-the-page" line and = getting no where, without have the sense to ask. I am not the sharpest too= l in the shed for sure.
=  
Oshun

-------------------------------1249169141-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2841 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93558 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2009 23:37:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2009 23:37:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2009 23:37:58 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2009 23:37:28 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2009 23:37:28 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 23:37:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=8v1CBH-yY5oHgqA8VYuqBjkjI_zBUAaVXTQsYB2rcMuiQcKVlLlx0aTZ X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 Yep, I had figured out the link *from* the wonderful Akallabeth in August s= ite that connects *to* the SWG, but where is the link on the SWG itself, th= at is, on this familiar URL: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index= .php which makes the connection from the SWG site to the Aka-n-Aug site? = It's not obvious to me in the side menu and it's not apparent to me from t= he "special projects" page either. Sorry that I am such a pill. But I am = lazy and want conveniences laid out before my feet. :^D --- In Silmarill= ionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > > > OK, now= where is the link to this wonderful site on the SWG that I am > missing? = Should it be front and center of the Home page? Or is it (ahem) buried > = somewhere? You'll have to forgive this doddering old Luddite for not > fi= nding it obvious. > > I figured it out! First time ever for me on someth= ing like this. On either > side of the Turn-the-Page announcement in the = center of the screen are > little leaves that are the forward and back ar= rows. > > Hey, I spent almost two days clicking on the "turn-the-page" li= ne and > getting no where, without have the sense to ask. I am not the sh= arpest tool in > the shed for sure. > > > Oshun > **************A Good = Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http:/= /pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=3Dhttp://= www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=3D668072&hmpgID=3D115&bcd > =3D= JulystepsfooterNO115) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2842 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51440 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2009 23:43:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2009 23:43:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2009 23:43:50 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2009 23:43:47 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2009 23:43:47 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 23:43:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=9wYmzDZX0EevT71LZNONncCH0i4zICUPt9NZfqOpMGV7nk48ZUQs32Wp X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 OK, I found it by treading on this path: SWG home page =3D=3D> Left menu b= ar =3D=3D> Look! More topics are available for Akallab=EAth in August [clic= k on "Read More"] =3D=3D> SWG News. There it is! The link to the Akallabe= th in August page. So it is a tad circuitous. I'm hoping that there will = be a link made under the "Special Projects" page where the link to Seven in= '07 as well as BtMe, etc. reside. :^) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@ya= hoogroups.com, "pandemonium_213" wrote: > > Yep, I had fi= gured out the link *from* the wonderful Akallabeth in August site that conn= ects *to* the SWG, but where is the link on the SWG itself, that is, on thi= s familiar URL: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index.php > >= which makes the connection from the SWG site to the Aka-n-Aug site? > > = It's not obvious to me in the side menu and it's not apparent to me from th= e "special projects" page either. > > Sorry that I am such a pill. But I = am lazy and want conveniences laid out before my feet. :^D > > > > --- I= n SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@ wrote: > > > > >= > > > OK, now where is the link to this wonderful site on the SWG that I= am > > missing? Should it be front and center of the Home page? Or is it= (ahem) buried > > somewhere? You'll have to forgive this doddering old L= uddite for not > > finding it obvious. > > > > I figured it out! First = time ever for me on something like this. On either > > side of the Turn-t= he-Page announcement in the center of the screen are > > little leaves th= at are the forward and back arrows. > > > > Hey, I spent almost two days = clicking on the "turn-the-page" line and > > getting no where, without hav= e the sense to ask. I am not the sharpest tool in > > the shed for sure. = > > > > > > Oshun > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.= See yours in just 2 easy > > steps! > > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1= 00126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=3Dhttp://www.freecreditreport.com/= pm/default.aspx?sc=3D668072&hmpgID=3D115&bcd > > =3DJulystepsfooterNO115) >= > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2843 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91258 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2009 23:48:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2009 23:48:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma03.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.41) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2009 23:48:58 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n71Nmogd007562 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:48:50 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id r.d5d.43b2416c (39329) for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:49:22 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1249170562" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=iCgY4AgIz8bN2CZ2epcPZm0SVVTT6fsE87P_PNLclEyyxKz57exr X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1249170562 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with you. I definitely would have clicked on "Special Projects" to find it. I do know, from my experience of looking for new/recent character bios, that Dawn puts links in their permanent positions later and not at the time that she publishes the newsletter. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------------------------1249170562 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I agree wit= h you. I definitely would have clicked on "Special Projects" to find it. I= do know, from my experience of looking for new/recent character bios= , that Dawn puts links in their permanent positions later and not at = the time that she publishes the newsletter. 
 

-------------------------------1249170562-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2844 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10646 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2009 23:56:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2009 23:56:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.92.26) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2009 23:56:37 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 3so1293827qwe.61 for ; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 16:56:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.37.69 with SMTP id w5mr3413651qad.250.1249170987130; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 16:56:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:56:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=imfssx4KB6PmFhfac0KBsxlajMoBbRG6TyLA9CkxoG2A6dZW2Be7rQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Doc B., I'm hoping it will be added to the Special Projects soon, becau= se the beautiful page and the works do need more showing off. But in the me= antime, it's fairly easily accessible through the newsletter. 1. Go to www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org 2. Click the Newsletter link on the left side= of the page. 3. Scroll down to "Akallabeth in August" under "SWG News." (J= ust one screen in my browser.) 4. Click the second link in that section - "= Akallabeth in August page." HTH, Marta On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 7:43 PM, p= andemonium_213 wrote: > > > OK, I found it by treadi= ng on this path: > > SWG home page =3D=3D> Left menu bar =3D=3D> Look! More= topics are available for > Akallab=EAth in August [click on "Read More"] = =3D=3D> SWG News. There it is! The > link to the Akallabeth in August page.= > > So it is a tad circuitous. I'm hoping that there will be a link made u= nder > the "Special Projects" page where the link to Seven in '07 as well a= s BtMe, > etc. reside. :^) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2845 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1014 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2009 00:33:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Aug 2009 00:33:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2009 00:33:19 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2009 00:32:24 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2009 00:32:24 -0000 Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 00:32:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "pandemonium_213" Subject: Re: Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=ilOPFPc1xkfIjr3e5hqrs4tHh7WSbiEagbdLBiqXY0m-4QYYITQz0bI9 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 Yes, thanks, Marta, I had figured that out (see the post that you replied t= o) but it never hurts to reiterate these things to the near-geriatric such = as myself. ;^) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Marta wrote: > > Hi Doc B., > > I'm hoping it will be added to th= e Special Projects soon, because the > beautiful page and the works do need= more showing off. But in the > meantime, it's fairly easily accessible thr= ough the newsletter. > > 1. Go to www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > 2. Cl= ick the Newsletter link on the left side of the page. > 3. Scroll down to "= Akallabeth in August" under "SWG News." (Just one > screen in my browser.) = > 4. Click the second link in that section - "Akallabeth in August page." >= > HTH, > > Marta > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 7:43 PM, pandemonium_213 wrote: > > > > > > OK, I found it by treading on this path: = > > > > SWG home page =3D=3D> Left menu bar =3D=3D> Look! More topics are a= vailable for > > Akallab=EAth in August [click on "Read More"] =3D=3D> SWG = News. There it is! The > > link to the Akallabeth in August page. > > > > S= o it is a tad circuitous. I'm hoping that there will be a link made under >= > the "Special Projects" page where the link to Seven in '07 as well as Bt= Me, > > etc. reside. :^) > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2846 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97636 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2009 01:21:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Aug 2009 01:21:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2009 01:21:25 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.47] (helo=elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MXPlN-0008Th-K4 for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:21:25 -0400 X-Received: from 68.13.53.230 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:21:25 -0400 Message-ID: <33248508.1249176085687.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:21:25 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79f04c0bf7a692c1372e20a35dccb58119350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=WAQ9N-XQ7dbTUJLcwNXmWhSECrFQdHxfP_Q5k_Gl2EpbjqpOuv-M X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 Both the painting and the story are gorgeous! And to think - this is just = day 1. This is going to be one heck of a month! Ithilwen -----Original = Message----- From: Dawn Felagund Sent: Jul 31, 2009 11:39 PM To: SWG = Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Akallabeth in August: Day One The fi= rst entries for Akallabeth in August have been posted! As most of you proba= bly know by now, we will be roughly following the chronology set for in the= Akallabeth to creatively "retell" this book of The Silmarillion. Participa= nts signed up for a topic in the chronology, and their entry either concern= ed the topic directly or took place at roughly that period in time, giving = us a more or less chronological body of stories, poems, and artwork from th= e founding of Numenor to its downfall. The main Akallabeth in August page= is here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/ T= here will be at least one new entry posted each day. Today, there are two, = since one is an artwork. --- "Now Elros and Elrond his brother were desc= ended from the Three Houses of the Edain, but in part also both from the El= dar and the Maiar; for Idril of Gondolin and L=C3=BAthien daughter of Melia= n were their foremothers. The Valar indeed may not withdraw the gift of dea= th, which comes to Men from Il=C3=BAvatar, but in the matter of the Half-el= ven Il=C3=BAvatar gave to them the judgement; and they judged that to the s= ons of E=C3=A4rendil should be given choice of their own destiny." "Never = Look Back" by Independence1776 http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akal= labeth-in-august/1-1.php --- "Then the Edain set sail upon the deep wate= rs, following the Star; and the Valar laid a peace upon the sea for many da= ys, and sent sunlight and a sailing wind, so that the waters glittered befo= re the eyes of the Edain like rippling glass, and the foam flew like snow b= efore the stems of their ships." "Elenna" by Lyra http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/1-2.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2847 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40550 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2009 01:29:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Aug 2009 01:29:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f223.google.com) (209.85.219.223) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2009 01:29:41 -0000 X-Received: by ewy23 with SMTP id 23so2183881ewy.12 for ; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:28:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.20.67 with SMTP id o45mr891049weo.106.1249176520720; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:28:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <33248508.1249176085687.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <33248508.1249176085687.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:28:40 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c7807c782c604701e925b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=iHc7Im_u3obX7VEgc7ru_QbGPOxbOfrDGXZM8DgaVnYMp56gcxs6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364c7807c782c604701e925b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pandemonium, Oshun, and Marta, None of you are dense or geriatric! :D You could not find your way to the AinA page because the webmaster had not yet uploaded the new file for the sidebar stuff on the pages because, last summer, her husband tilled under a whole bunch of cilantro plants that, this year, grew into even more cilantro plants, so she was spending the afternoon picking thousands of coriander seeds from said fifty-odd cilantro plants. But now the files have been uploaded, so there is an AinA link conveniently in the sidebar on every page as well as a block "Today in Numenor" that links directly to the featured entry for the day. I will also be adding a link on the Special Projects page just as soon as I get a graphic made for the link so that, once August is over, it's easy to find your way back to the page. HTH! :) Dawn who, hours later, still smells like cilantro -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364c7807c782c604701e925b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pandemonium, Oshun, and Marta,

None of you are dense or geriatric! := D You could not find your way to the AinA page because the webmaster had no= t yet uploaded the new file for the sidebar stuff on the pages because, las= t summer, her husband tilled under a whole bunch of cilantro plants that, t= his year, grew into even more cilantro plants, so she was spending the afte= rnoon picking thousands of coriander seeds from said fifty-odd cilantro pla= nts.

But now the files have been uploaded, so there is an AinA link= conveniently in the sidebar on every page as well as a block "Today i= n Numenor" that links directly to the featured entry for the day.
<= br>I will also be adding a link on the Special Projects page just as soon a= s I get a graphic made for the link so that, once August is over, it's = easy to find your way back to the page.

HTH! :)

Dawn
who,= hours later, still smells like cilantro

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagu= nd
http://themid= havens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364c7807c782c604701e925b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2848 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44253 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2009 01:38:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Aug 2009 01:38:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f227.google.com) (209.85.219.227) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2009 01:38:58 -0000 X-Received: by ewy27 with SMTP id 27so76468ewy.16 for ; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:38:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.26.77 with SMTP id b55mr827438wea.101.1249177133781; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:38:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:38:53 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e65b5c705214fc04701eb7f2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Akallabeth in August: Day One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=sdKsKynCgWAbEeVd7lmSYoM5Kqtvcl7gsL3pPWEqTyWTVIjBNtVr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e65b5c705214fc04701eb7f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, Pandemonium! :) The design is based on a 19th-century Qur'an made for the Ottoman sultan Selim III. The book is one in the collection at the Chester Beatty Library in Dublin, where recently I--along with Hrymfaxe and my husband Bobby--spent a couple blissful hours trying not to drool on all of the illuminated manuscripts! (They put them in glass cases because of people like me! :D) Upon returning and deciding with my co-mods that we wanted to do an "illuminated book" for the project, I was looking for inspiration in the Beatty Library guidebook that had happened to jump into my hands on the way out of the museum and stumbled upon this one, and it was love at first sight. I have a not-very-good scan of the page I used here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/images/akallabeth-in-august/qur%27an.jpg Rhapsody was then invaluable in helping me to convert my artwork to digital format and making it into a more or less seamless whole. (I have Photoshophobia, I really do! :) Dawn On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:58 PM, pandemonium_213 wrote: > > > The site is gorgeous! I love the illuminated border and the "vellum" > background. You all deserve accolades for creating a lovely virtual > illuminated book for this event. *applauds* > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e65b5c705214fc04701eb7f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Pandemonium! :) The design is based on a 19th-century Qur'an= made for the Ottoman sultan Selim III. The book is one in the collection a= t the Chester Beatty Library in Dublin, where recently I--along with Hrymfa= xe and my husband Bobby--spent a couple blissful hours trying not to drool = on all of the illuminated manuscripts! (They put them in glass cases becaus= e of people like me! :D)

Upon returning and deciding with my co-mod= s that we wanted to do an "illuminated book" for the project, I w= as looking for inspiration in the Beatty Library guidebook that had happene= d to jump into my hands on the way out of the museum and stumbled upon this= one, and it was love at first sight. I have a not-very-good scan of the pa= ge I used here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org/images/akallabeth-in-august/qur%27an.jpg

Rhapsody was the= n invaluable in helping me to convert my artwork to digital format and maki= ng it into a more or less seamless whole. (I have Photoshophobia, I really = do! :)

Dawn

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 a= t 6:58 PM, pandemonium_213 <docbushwell@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0

The site is gorgeous! = I love the illuminated border and the "vellum" background. You al= l deserve accolades for creating a lovely virtual illuminated book for this= event. *applauds*



<= br>


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org
--0016e65b5c705214fc04701eb7f2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2849 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93944 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2009 04:14:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Aug 2009 04:14:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f219.google.com) (209.85.219.219) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2009 04:14:00 -0000 X-Received: by ewy19 with SMTP id 19so2612086ewy.44 for ; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:13:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.18.205 with SMTP id l55mr808025wel.194.1249186418067; Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 00:13:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64c2740b508d6047020e082 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Two X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=To-pX9wgycAxts127-uIMB0L3rVkSI4c7IYrxp17VoMF4MjWfchF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e64c2740b508d6047020e082 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The second day of AinA in up! :) ---- "E=C3=B6nw=C3=AB came among them an= d taught them; and they were given wisdom and power and life more enduring = than any others of mortal races have possessed." "E=C3=B6nw=C3=AB among th= e Edain" by Fiondil http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-a= ugust/2-1.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lore= master/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e64c2740b508d6047020e082 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The second day of AinA in up! :)

----

"E=C3=B6nw=C3=AB c= ame among them and taught them; and they were given wisdom and power and li= fe more enduring than any others of mortal races have possessed."
=
"E=C3=B6nw=C3=AB among the Edain" by Fiondil
http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/2-1.php

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/=
http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org
--0016e64c2740b508d6047020e082-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2850 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10631 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2009 01:58:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2009 01:58:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f224.google.com) (209.85.219.224) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Aug 2009 01:58:47 -0000 X-Received: by ewy24 with SMTP id 24so2296357ewy.47 for ; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:58:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.29.210 with SMTP id i60mr1119432wea.84.1249264725946; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:58:45 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6db6196386ffa0470331c00 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Three X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=3qSsviNIng06bOK7IY_g-xqmu9YHoe1lTtOIp-V2VvKmfn8brDw7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6db6196386ffa0470331c00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Akallabeth in August story for 3 August has been unlocked! :) --- "Th= en Sauron was ashamed, and he was unwilling to return in humiliation and to= receive from the Valar a sentence, it might be, of long servitude in proof= of his good faith; for under Morgoth his power had been great. Therefore w= hen E=C3=B6nw=C3=AB departed he hid himself in Middle-earth; and he fell ba= ck into evil, for the bonds that Morgoth had laid upon him were very strong= ." "How the East Was Won" by Pandemonium_213 http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/3-1.php Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Fela= gund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org --0016e6db6196386ffa0470331c00 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Akallabeth in August story for 3 August has been unlocked! :)

--= -

"Then Sauron was ashamed, and he was unwilling to return in h= umiliation and to receive from the Valar a sentence, it might be, of long s= ervitude in proof of his good faith; for under Morgoth his power had been g= reat. Therefore when E=C3=B6nw=C3=AB departed he hid himself in Middle-eart= h; and he fell back into evil, for the bonds that Morgoth had laid upon him= were very strong."

"How the East Was Won" by Pandemo= nium_213

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in= -august/3-1.php

Enjoy!

Dawn

--
= ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org<= /a>
--0016e6db6196386ffa0470331c00-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2851 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80148 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2009 03:30:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2009 03:30:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f219.google.com) (209.85.219.219) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Aug 2009 03:30:12 -0000 X-Received: by ewy19 with SMTP id 19so132721ewy.44 for ; Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:29:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.47.204 with SMTP id t54mr1347285web.75.1249356551282; Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 23:29:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f724f06fe1490470487d6f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Four X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=x2U6am8Hlw74ce30ZObyuyY1QvdYSc67-9BzwGpj0sCX-zpStPhB X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001485f724f06fe1490470487d6f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today in Numenor ... *Thus the years passed, and while Middle-earth went b= ackward and light and wisdom faded, the D=C3=BAnedain dwelt under the prote= ction of the Valar and in the friendship of the Eldar, and they increased i= n stature both of mind and body.* "Anad=C3=BBnai" by Darth Fingon http://w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/4-1.php -- ~oOo~ Da= wn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org --001485f724f06fe1490470487d6f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today in Numenor ...

Thus the years passed, and while Middle-eart= h went backward and light and wisdom faded, the D=C3=BAnedain dwelt under t= he protection of the Valar and in the friendship of the Eldar, and they inc= reased in stature both of mind and body.

"Ana= d=C3=BBnai" by Darth Fingon
http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org/akallabeth-in-august/4-1.php


--
~oOo~
Dawn Fe= lagund
http://th= emidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001485f724f06fe1490470487d6f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2852 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9768 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2009 01:56:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2009 01:56:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f209.google.com) (209.85.219.209) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2009 01:56:17 -0000 X-Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so7482040ewy.15 for ; Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:55:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.13.210 with SMTP id b60mr1630183web.97.1249437316470; Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:55:15 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64c1ad06ade1e04705b4b9f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Five X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=JzuVBZxAjsF9jqn68CA-7r2J6ybM376cfyiIhHZMsUqJ8kidchf2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e64c1ad06ade1e04705b4b9f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "But they did not thus escape from the doom of death that Il=C3=BAvatar had= set upon all Mankind, and they were mortal still, though their years were = long, and they knew no sickness, ere the shadow fell upon them. Therefore t= hey grew wise and glorious, and in all things more like to the Firstborn th= an any other of the kindreds of Men; and they were tall, taller than the ta= llest of the sons of Middle-earth; and the light of their eyes was like the= bright stars." "Tenn=E2=80=99 Ambar-Metta" by Fiondil http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/5-1.php --- (To find all that's= been posted so far for AinA, visit the site's main page: http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org --0016e64c1ad06ade1e04705b4b9f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "But they did not thus escape from the doom of death that Il=C3=BAvata= r had set upon all Mankind, and they were mortal still, though their years = were long, and they knew no sickness, ere the shadow fell upon them. Theref= ore they grew wise and glorious, and in all things more like to the Firstbo= rn than any other of the kindreds of Men; and they were tall, taller than t= he tallest of the sons of Middle-earth; and the light of their eyes was lik= e the bright stars."

"Tenn=E2=80=99 Ambar-Metta" by F= iondil
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-augus= t/5-1.php

---

(To find all that's been posted so far= for AinA, visit the site's main page: http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org/akallabeth-in-august/)

--
~oOo~
Daw= n Felagund
http:= //themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e64c1ad06ade1e04705b4b9f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2853 Return-Path: X-Sender: nessaralindaran@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89656 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2009 17:21:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2009 17:21:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.100) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2009 17:21:59 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.48] by n4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2009 17:21:47 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by t1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2009 17:21:47 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Aug 2009 17:21:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:21:45 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Vanessa" Subject: Re: Akallabeth in August: Day Five X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=217491065; y=UYaT_sg9B9AgLra_t7iOU2ylS0HtZG0uDwhH8Rrt1jN6CGyoSfBFfbmb X-Yahoo-Profile: nessaralindaran Your page design here is just beautiful - really enjoyable all around. --= - In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > "But they did not thus escape from the doom of death that I= l=C3=BAvatar had set > upon all Mankind, and they were mortal still, though= their years were long, > and they knew no sickness, ere the shadow fell up= on them. Therefore they > grew wise and glorious, and in all things more li= ke to the Firstborn than > any other of the kindreds of Men; and they were = tall, taller than the > tallest of the sons of Middle-earth; and the light = of their eyes was like > the bright stars." > > "Tenn=E2=80=99 Ambar-Metta= " by Fiondil > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august= /5-1.php > > --- > > (To find all that's been posted so far for AinA, vis= it the site's main page: > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabe= th-in-august/) > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/h= eretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2854 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 715 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2009 17:31:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2009 17:31:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f226.google.com) (209.85.219.226) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2009 17:31:46 -0000 X-Received: by ewy26 with SMTP id 26so291363ewy.29 for ; Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:30:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.17.212 with SMTP id j62mr1787843wej.132.1249493445468; Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:30:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:30:45 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64c1beaf76f200470685cd1 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Akallabeth in August: Day Five X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=1PvaSM6V173p7bz6eyTROsPppA_V6foyc-VHHEPpGswmN_fZoxqb X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e64c1beaf76f200470685cd1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, Vanessa! :) I'm glad you're enjoying it! And we've still got most of the month to go ... ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e64c1beaf76f200470685cd1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you, Vanessa! :) I'm glad you're enjoying it= !
=C2=A0
And we've still got most of the month to= go ... ;)
=C2=A0
Dawn
--0016e64c1beaf76f200470685cd1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2855 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75384 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 5922 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0000 Message-ID: <149643.5486.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: cqaLUZcVM1lAG9NjGLwHBRDcHPTSvDL9cD7.ptgE.pmnDlnEFfnlBE710N1CfvtuUwokEu4z7nr0StnquK3Maa.9wDD5BL6TXwk.RNR2CiYBpnWOZbp9Zm.kO0vi2mrjYBHIdinkhFx8J0MeTiLjChGxRfAbcyadC1x5_7CU58faqbzW8pHv90bZp5QMM3iChzAycDzY4.3b7MZwVBtWB9N2kOeyYX61e4LjJRDrSXrmgTgBXkLHVYeLCcceuD64OnwBLfCWj36XN58q7SFa1HRFTSGqwLRmUFeqxi4efZA55WdYQDvwjaqY7qorjoHIlpARgODG X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:56:54 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:56:54 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1737041412-1249495014=:5486" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Akallabeth in August: Day Five X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=wiIyMqbBUnOz9U0QgEkZl35AhKqUhIJxlwNGzAEIxbjF9G6ToA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1737041412-1249495014=:5486 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree! Its just beautiful. Great job guys. ~~**~~ I warn you, if you= bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8= =A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0= =A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8= =B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [S= ilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Akallabeth in August: Day Five To: Silmarillio= nWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:30 PM = =A0 Thank you, Vanessa! :) I'm glad you're enjoying it! =A0 And we've= still got most of the month to go ... ;) =A0 Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund= http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/ http://www.silmaril lionwrit= ersguild .org --0-1737041412-1249495014=:5486 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree! Its just beautiful. Great job guys.<= BR>
~~**~~
I warn you, if you= bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
=  
 <= STRONG style=3D"COLOR: rgb(96,0,191)">..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:-
        =B8.=B7=B4 = .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. <= /FONT>=BA=B0=
    -:=A6:-    ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4* = -:|:-

--- On Wed, 8/5/09, Dawn Felagund wrote:

From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Akall= abeth in August: Day Five
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.comDate: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:30 PM

=  
Thank you, Vanessa! :) I'm glad you're enjoying it!
 
And we've still got most of the month to go ... ;)
 
Dawn

--0-1737041412-1249495014=:5486-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2856 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46674 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2009 18:25:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2009 18:25:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f224.google.com) (209.85.219.224) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2009 18:25:05 -0000 X-Received: by ewy24 with SMTP id 24so349161ewy.23 for ; Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:24:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.10.72 with SMTP id 50mr1714241weu.127.1249496645304; Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:24:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <149643.5486.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <149643.5486.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:24:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636499281b1022b0470691bb5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Akallabeth in August: Day Five X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wDQIuVFHFNUJtGYgPFp6mOrpZOD50eprLeGRByh9iaUju0xEqQQL X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636499281b1022b0470691bb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Alassante! :) It was, as ever, a group effort! And I can also attest that the great stories posted so far are indeed the rule, not the exception, so there is much more to come! :) Dawn who is in the luckily place of getting to preview everything ;) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636499281b1022b0470691bb5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Alassante! :) It was, as ever, a group effort!
=C2= =A0
And I can also attest that the great stories posted so far a= re indeed the rule, not the exception, so there is much more to come! :)
=C2=A0
Dawn
who is in the luckily place of g= etting to preview everything ;)
=C2=A0
--001636499281b1022b0470691bb5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2857 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 424 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2009 03:23:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2009 03:23:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f212.google.com) (209.85.219.212) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Aug 2009 03:23:53 -0000 X-Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so65863ewy.12 for ; Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:22:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.10.72 with SMTP id 50mr1812536weu.127.1249528972781; Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 23:22:52 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364992818f279b047070a2f8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day 6 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=_MIlJv2yg6FtsM21DpBMwohgznr-pcQEke0JXWfpDzacaAoPlh0p X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364992818f279b047070a2f8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Today in Numenor ... *Above all arts they nourished shipbuilding and sea-= craft, and they became mariners whose like shall never be again since the w= orld was diminished; and voyaging upon the wide seas was the chief feat and= adventure of their hardy men in the gallant days of their youth. Seek the= Horizon, N=C3=BAmenor's Sons by Dawn Felagund http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/6-1.php At times, when all the air was cl= ear and the sun was in the east, they would look out and descry far off in = the west a city white-shining on a distant shore, and a great harbour and a= tower. For in those days the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans were far-sighted; yet e= ven so it was only the keenest eyes among them that could see this vision, = from the Meneltarma, maybe, or from some tall ship that lay off their weste= rn coast as far as it was lawful for them to go. For they did not dare to b= reak the Ban of the Lords of the West. The Ban of the Valar by Fiondil* *h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/6-2.php* * -- = ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364992818f279b047070a2f8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today in Numenor ...

Above all arts they nourished shipbuildi= ng and sea-craft, and they became mariners whose like shall never be again = since the world was diminished; and voyaging upon the wide seas was the chi= ef feat and adventure of their hardy men in the gallant days of their youth= .

Seek the Horizon, N=C3=BAmenor's Sons by Dawn Felagund
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/6-1.php=

At times, when all the air was clear and the sun was in the east, t= hey would look out and descry far off in the west a city white-shining on a= distant shore, and a great harbour and a tower. For in those days the N=C3= =BAmen=C3=B3reans were far-sighted; yet even so it was only the keenest eye= s among them that could see this vision, from the Meneltarma, maybe, or fro= m some tall ship that lay off their western coast as far as it was lawful f= or them to go. For they did not dare to break the Ban of the Lords of the W= est.

The Ban of the Valar by Fiondil
http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/6-2.php


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= /a>
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org
--0016364992818f279b047070a2f8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2858 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24148 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2009 01:47:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Aug 2009 01:47:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f216.google.com) (209.85.219.216) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Aug 2009 01:47:06 -0000 X-Received: by ewy12 with SMTP id 12so1850040ewy.24 for ; Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:47:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.93.13 with SMTP id k13mr109592wef.75.1249609623835; Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:47:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d644efbc9569047083694d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Seven X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ZXocl5CZg0X7B2wVcOX7ruxljztFEO_uuxs-UyAlxxdVhVnE8iay X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d644efbc9569047083694d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "In this Age, as is elsewhere told, Sauron arose again in Middle-earth, and= grew, and turned back to the evil in which he was nurtured by Morgoth, bec= oming mighty in his service. Already in the days of Tar-Minastir, the eleve= nth King of N=C3=BAmenor, he had fortified the land of Mordor and had built= there the Tower of Barad-d=C3=BBr, and thereafter he strove ever for the d= ominion of Middle-earth, to become a king over all kings and as a god unto = Men." "Into This Wild Abyss: The Measure of Dreams" by Pandemonium_213 http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/7-1.php --- For = *all* of the goodies posted for AinA so far, please visit the main site: ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/ -- ~oOo~ Dawn= Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org --0016e6d644efbc9569047083694d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

"In this Age, as is elsewhere told, Sauron arose ag= ain in Middle-earth, and grew, and turned back to the evil in which he was = nurtured by Morgoth, becoming mighty in his service. Already in the days of= Tar-Minastir, the eleventh King of N=C3=BAmenor, he had fortified the land= of Mordor and had built there the Tower of Barad-d=C3=BBr, and thereafter = he strove ever for the dominion of Middle-earth, to become a king over all = kings and as a god unto Men."

"Into This Wild Abyss: The Mea= sure of Dreams" by Pandemonium_213
http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/7-1.php

---

For al= l of the goodies posted for AinA so far, please visit the main site: htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
= http://www.silmarillion= writersguild.org
--0016e6d644efbc9569047083694d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2859 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67696 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2009 02:35:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Aug 2009 02:35:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f212.google.com) (209.85.219.212) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Aug 2009 02:35:44 -0000 X-Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so1409965ewy.12 for ; Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:34:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.93.16 with SMTP id k16mr378600wef.33.1249698884005; Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:34:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d6495c0eae7c04709832a7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Eight X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=58VCCv3uQD4VNFPWqvy0-g6JikCcmkZowkY0jpujz_5EKMgY6ZB7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d6495c0eae7c04709832a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Today in Numenor:* Thus it was that a shadow fell upon them: in which may= be the will of Morgoth was at work that still moved in the world. And the N= =C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans began to murmur, at first in their hearts, and then in= open words, against the doom of Men, and most of all against the Ban which= forbade them to sail into the West. Mavoin=C3=AB by Fiondil http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/8-1.php Then Tar-Ancalimon= , son of Atanamir, became King, and he was of like mind; and in his day the= people of N=C3=BAmenor became divided. On the one hand was the greater par= ty, and they were called the King's Men, and they grew proud and were estra= nged from the Eldar and the Valar. Brothers by Dawn Felagund http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/8-2.php --- The complete = Akallabeth in August project can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/ -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidh= avens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d6495c0eae7c04709832a7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today in Numenor:

Thus it was that a shadow fell upon them: i= n which maybe the will of Morgoth was at work that still moved in the world= . And the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans began to murmur, at first in their hearts, = and then in open words, against the doom of Men, and most of all against th= e Ban which forbade them to sail into the West.

Mavoin=C3=AB by Fio= ndil
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/= 8-1.php

Then Tar-Ancalimon, son of Atanamir, became King, and he= was of like mind; and in his day the people of N=C3=BAmenor became divided= . On the one hand was the greater party, and they were called the King'= s Men, and they grew proud and were estranged from the Eldar and the Valar.=

Brothers by Dawn Felagund
http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/akallabeth-in-august/8-2.php

---

The complete Ak= allabeth in August project can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org/akallabeth-in-august/


--
~oOo~<= br>Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d6495c0eae7c04709832a7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2860 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77830 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2009 03:07:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Aug 2009 03:07:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f214.google.com) (209.85.219.214) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Aug 2009 03:07:53 -0000 X-Received: by ewy10 with SMTP id 10so5334660ewy.13 for ; Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:06:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.93.13 with SMTP id k13mr576977wef.75.1249787213058; Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:06:53 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d644efe113d60470acc2cd X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Nine X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=vMQfIy8BRaKpsG4tIjEb_KfgiUBuXmewWM6pT7hhzMoGqRaAzbli X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d644efe113d60470acc2cd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Yet they achieved only the art of preserving incorrupt the dead flesh of Men, and they filled all the land with silent tombs in which the thought of death was enshrined in the darkness." "The Embalmer's Apprentice" by Lyra http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/9-1.php (Please note that this is a multi-chapter story; the first three chapters have been posted today, and the rest will be posted periodically throughout the rest of the month. Be sure to click through to all of the chapters! :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d644efe113d60470acc2cd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Yet they achieved only the art of preserving incorrupt the dead flesh= of Men, and they filled all the land with silent tombs in which the though= t of death was enshrined in the darkness."

"The Embalmer&#= 39;s Apprentice" by Lyra
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org/akallabeth-in-august/9-1.php

(Please note that this is a mu= lti-chapter story; the first three chapters have been posted today, and the= rest will be posted periodically throughout the rest of the month. Be sure= to click through to all of the chapters! :)


--
~oOo~
Da= wn Felagund
http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d644efe113d60470acc2cd-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2861 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65605 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2009 01:26:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Aug 2009 01:26:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ey-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.78.148) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Aug 2009 01:26:32 -0000 X-Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 13so699148eye.12 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:26:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.7.207 with SMTP id 57mr798063wep.104.1249867592123; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 21:26:32 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c758ed8472b0470bf798f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Ten X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=D_WaG2CguX-DU6E-3mri9xNIKrqn6aWv625NbdfQXpi4dMc81WVp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364c758ed8472b0470bf798f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Now he learned that the kings of N=C3=BAmenor had increased in power and s= plendour, and he hated them the more; and he feared them, lest they should = invade his lands and wrest from him the dominion of the East." "Into This = Wild Abyss: The Talisman" by Pandemonium_213 http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org/akallabeth-in-august/10-1.php --- Please note that "The Talisma= n" has been rated for adult audiences according to our ratings guidelines. = The complete Akallabeth in August project to this point is available here:= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/ -- ~oOo~ = Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org --0016364c758ed8472b0470bf798f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Now he learned that the kings of N=C3=BAmenor had increased in power = and splendour, and he hated them the more; and he feared them, lest they sh= ould invade his lands and wrest from him the dominion of the East."
"Into This Wild Abyss: The Talisman" by Pandemonium_213
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/10-1.ph= p

---

Please note that "The Talisman" has been= rated for adult audiences according to our ratings guidelines.

The = complete Akallabeth in August project to this point is available here: http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= br>http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org
--0016364c758ed8472b0470bf798f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2862 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70609 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2009 02:30:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Aug 2009 02:30:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Aug 2009 02:30:28 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Aug 2009 02:30:10 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Aug 2009 02:30:10 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:30:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Akallabeth in August: Day Ten X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=7dd6om_CmUy_Tvl5BzAQA6Rqic_EZreh7YlR-YQ-2PI5TY2QbLPe7-evclZwg1KajFp88Q X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! OMGOMGOMGAPANDESTORYOMGOMGOMGYAYOMG!!!!HA= PPYHAPPYJOYJOY!!!!! "runs off screaming and flailing her arms like a rabid= fangirl to the site to read." --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup= s.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > "Now he learned that the= kings of N=C3=BAmenor had increased in power and > splendour, and he hated= them the more; and he feared them, lest they should > invade his lands and= wrest from him the dominion of the East." > > "Into This Wild Abyss: The T= alisman" by Pandemonium_213 > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akall= abeth-in-august/10-1.php > > --- > > Please note that "The Talisman" has be= en rated for adult audiences according > to our ratings guidelines. > > The= complete Akallabeth in August project to this point is available here: > h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/ > > > -- > ~oO= o~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2863 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94413 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2009 19:10:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Aug 2009 19:10:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f227.google.com) (209.85.219.227) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Aug 2009 19:10:46 -0000 X-Received: by ewy27 with SMTP id 27so955211ewy.40 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:10:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.93.13 with SMTP id k13mr1085402wef.75.1249931418506; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:10:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d644ef319b610470ce56c0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: August '09 Newsletter Omissions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=UuNyMC-gOH8Q97LhnxRzGZchoi04DefLzaweIpHhybdaFx6RrJx1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d644ef319b610470ce56c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all, It has come to my attention that a good number of stories that do, in fact, take place in the Second Age have not made it onto the list that we published in the last newsletter. I will be updating the newsletter tonight and publishing a list of the missing stories next month as well, but in the meantime, I wanted to post a list here for those of you who have already read the newsletter this month and are reading some of the stories listed there. I didn't want these stories to get overlooked as part of Akallabeth in August. I would also like to apologize to the authors whose work was left off. It was an inadvertant--but no less unfortunate--mistake. If something remains missing from the list, please do let me know, and I will see that it is corrected as soon as possible. As usual, the links will take you to the Table of Contents for that story, where there is more information on characters involved, genre, rating, author's notes, and warnings without opening the first chapter of the story itself. Enjoy! :) All the best, Dawn --- "A Little More Conversation" by Keiliss http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=507&index=1 A story told through letters of the friendship that grows between Glorfindel, sent to take charge of the newly-discovered valley of Imladris, and Erestor, an assistant to one of Gil-galad's military advisors. "A Time to Heal" by clotho123 http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=419&index=1 At the beginning of the Second Age Gil-galad must decide what to do about the surviving Feanorian followers. Can the Noldor be reconciled? "All Else Lost" by Keiliss http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=555&index=1 In a changed world there was one thing that remained untouched by time or distance. "Cultural Differences" by Keiliss http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=398&index=1 Cultural differences, a young king, an arrogant Maia, and rather too much wine. "Defiance" by Marta http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=508&index=1 Of all the Valar, Ulmo arguably knew the Numenoreans best and it was his waves that were used in their destruction. What must he have thought about the Akallabeth? "Footnote to the Akallabeth" by clotho123 http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=414&index=1 The results of the Downfall, from the point of view of the Noldor in Aman. Semi-serious. "Forsaken Knowledge" by Rhapsody http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=369&index=1 In order to finish one of his greatest achievements, Celebrimbor applies a skill he considered forgotten. "Last Alliance" by Isil Elensar http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=413&index=1 For a few moments in time, a soldier in the Last Alliance remembers the woman he left behind. "No title yet." by ladyoflight http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=603&index=1 Written to cheer up JDav/JDE who is going through a tough time in RL. Pairing: Gil-Galad/Elrond. "Of Numenor That Was" by Marta http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=368&index=1 The story of the last sacrifice offered to Morgoth by Numenor, told in four true drabbles from the perspectives of four OCs. "Of Sauron and the Lesser Rings" by Anlashaq http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=397&index=1 To an old Friend. "Pivot Point" by Aiwen http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=444&index=1 Celebrimbor and Annatar meet for the first time. "Rings of Pride; Rings of Ruin" by Aiwen http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=450&index=1 Celebrimbor discovers that Annatar has betrayed them all, and has to take responsibility for the situation before total disaster can result. "Spaces of the Heart" by Keiliss http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=140&index=1 Glorfindel's first meeting with Idril's grandson. "Survivors of the Downfall" by SurgicalSteel http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=482&index=1 Sailors from Umbar realize that Numenor is no more. "The Beginning" by Oshun http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=24&index=1 Extended drabble on the theme of Elrond and Gil-galad. "The Choice" by Ithilwen http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=571&index=1 A conversation between a pair of brothers, reflecting on the choices they've made in their lives. Takes place near the beginning of the Second Age. "The Departure" by Keiliss http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=435&index=1 Departure, to be followed by a return. "The Far Side of the World" by SurgicalSteel http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=468&index=1 During the reign of Tar-Ancalime, a group of Numenorean mariners find something that surprises and alarms them in their explorations. "The Men Who Would Be Kings" by SurgicalSteel http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=497&index=1 In the late Second Age, a merchant from Belfalas comes to an agreement with new arrivals from downfallen Numenor. "The People of Akallabeth" by Hamfast Gamgee http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=373&index=1 A tale set at time of the end of Numenor, involving original characters, Amandil, Elendil, some Elves a bit of angst and some of my own ideas thrown in, and a bit of poetry! "This Distant Shore" by Rasksha the Demon http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=405&index=1 When much is lost, there still remains much to do. A Thanksgiving-inspired look at some special immigrants in the late Second Age. "Till Fire Purge All Things New" by Pandemonium_213 http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=473&index=1 Sauron has a moment of doubt in the Sammath Naur. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d644ef319b610470ce56c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,
=C2=A0
It has come to my attention that= a good number of stories that do, in fact, take place in the Second Age ha= ve not made it onto the list that we published in the last newsletter. I wi= ll be updating the newsletter tonight and publishing a list of the missing = stories next month as well, but in the meantime, I wanted to post a list he= re for those of you who have already read the newsletter this month and are= reading some of the stories listed there. I didn't want these stories = to get overlooked as part of Akallabeth in August.
=C2=A0
=
I would also like to apologize to the authors whose work was left off= . It was an inadvertant--but no less unfortunate--mistake. If something rem= ains missing from the list, please do let me know, and I will see that it i= s corrected as soon as possible.
=C2=A0
As usual, th= e links will take you to the Table of Contents for that story, where there = is more information on characters involved, genre, rating, author's not= es, and warnings without opening the first chapter of the story itself. Enj= oy! :)
=C2=A0
All the best,
=C2=A0
=
Dawn
=C2=A0
---
=C2=A0
&qu= ot;A Little More Conversation" by Keiliss
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid= =3D507&index=3D1
A story told through letters of the friendship= that grows between Glorfindel, sent to take charge of the newly-discovered= valley of Imladris, and Erestor, an assistant to one of Gil-galad's mi= litary advisors.
=C2=A0
"A Time to Heal" by= clotho123
http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D419&index=3D1
At the be= ginning of the Second Age Gil-galad must decide what to do about the surviv= ing Feanorian followers. Can the Noldor be reconciled?
=C2=A0
"All Else Lost" by Keiliss
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D= 555&index=3D1
In a changed world there was one thing that remai= ned untouched by time or distance.
=C2=A0
"Cultu= ral Differences" by Keiliss
http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D398&index= =3D1
Cultural differences, a young king, an arrogant Maia, and rath= er too much wine.
=C2=A0
"Defiance" by Mart= a
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/ar= chive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D508&index=3D1
Of all the Valar, = Ulmo arguably knew the Numenoreans best and it was his waves that were used= in their destruction. What must he have thought about the Akallabeth?
=C2=A0
"Footnote to the Akallabeth" by clotho12= 3
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/ar= chive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D414&index=3D1
The results of the= Downfall, from the point of view of the Noldor in Aman. Semi-serious.
=C2=A0
"Forsaken Knowledge" by Rhapsody
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/hom= e/viewstory.php?sid=3D369&index=3D1
In order to finish one of h= is greatest achievements, Celebrimbor applies a skill he considered forgott= en.
=C2=A0
"Last Alliance" by Isil Elensar<= br>http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/arch= ive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D413&index=3D1
For a few moments in= time, a soldier in the Last Alliance remembers the woman he left behind.
=C2=A0
"No title yet." by ladyoflight
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/ho= me/viewstory.php?sid=3D603&index=3D1
Written to cheer up JDav/J= DE who is going through a tough time in RL. Pairing: Gil-Galad/Elrond.
=C2=A0
"Of Numenor That Was" by Marta
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/= viewstory.php?sid=3D368&index=3D1
The story of the last sacrifi= ce offered to Morgoth by Numenor, told in four true drabbles from the persp= ectives of four OCs.
=C2=A0
"Of Sauron and the L= esser Rings" by Anlashaq
http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D397&index=3D= 1
To an old Friend.
=C2=A0
"Pivot Point&= quot; by Aiwen
http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D444&index=3D1
Celeb= rimbor and Annatar meet for the first time.
=C2=A0
&q= uot;Rings of Pride; Rings of Ruin" by Aiwen
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?si= d=3D450&index=3D1
Celebrimbor discovers that Annatar has betray= ed them all, and has to take responsibility for the situation before total = disaster can result.
=C2=A0
"Spaces of the Heart= " by Keiliss
http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D140&index=3D1
Gl= orfindel's first meeting with Idril's grandson.
=C2=A0
"Survivors of the Downfall" by SurgicalSteel
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/= viewstory.php?sid=3D482&index=3D1
Sailors from Umbar realize th= at Numenor is no more.
=C2=A0
"The Beginning&quo= t; by Oshun
http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D24&index=3D1
Extended d= rabble on the theme of Elrond and Gil-galad.
=C2=A0
&= quot;The Choice" by Ithilwen
http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D571&inde= x=3D1
A conversation between a pair of brothers, reflecting on the = choices they've made in their lives. Takes place near the beginning of = the Second Age.
=C2=A0
"The Departure" by K= eiliss
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D435&index=3D1
Departure, to= be followed by a return.
=C2=A0
"The Far Side o= f the World" by SurgicalSteel
http://ww= w.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D468&ind= ex=3D1
During the reign of Tar-Ancalime, a group of Numenorean mari= ners find something that surprises and alarms them in their explorations.
=C2=A0
"The Men Who Would Be Kings" by Surgi= calSteel
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D497&index=3D1
In the late= Second Age, a merchant from Belfalas comes to an agreement with new arriva= ls from downfallen Numenor.
=C2=A0
"The People o= f Akallabeth" by Hamfast Gamgee
http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D373&i= ndex=3D1
A tale set at time of the end of Numenor, involving origin= al characters, Amandil, Elendil, some Elves a bit of angst and some of my o= wn ideas thrown in, and a bit of poetry!
=C2=A0
"= ;This Distant Shore" by Rasksha the Demon
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid= =3D405&index=3D1
When much is lost, there still remains much to= do. A Thanksgiving-inspired look at some special immigrants in the late Se= cond Age.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net= /heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d644ef319b610470ce56c0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2864 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68848 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2009 01:36:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Aug 2009 01:36:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f214.google.com) (209.85.219.214) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Aug 2009 01:36:35 -0000 X-Received: by ewy10 with SMTP id 10so6543143ewy.13 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:35:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.18.205 with SMTP id l55mr1168087wel.194.1249954535288; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:35:35 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64c27400fafe70470d3b8c3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Eleven X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ulFTZHKJkKpd27BBVNyZuV2rnEeGvpa7ifLHJKS7SUnOpTS7dTuH X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e64c27400fafe70470d3b8c3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "For Ar-Gimilz=C3=B4r the twenty-second king was the greatest enemy of the = Faithful. In his day the White Tree was untended and began to decline; and = he forbade utterly the use of the Elven-tongues, and punished those that we= lcomed the ships of Eress=C3=ABa, that still came secretly to the west-shor= es of the land." "Every Wish" by Independence1776 http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/11-1.php --- All of the AinA entries= posted so far can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/a= kallabeth-in-august/ -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/here= tic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e64c27400fafe70470d3b8c3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "For Ar-Gimilz=C3=B4r the twenty-second king was the greatest enemy of= the Faithful. In his day the White Tree was untended and began to decline;= and he forbade utterly the use of the Elven-tongues, and punished those th= at welcomed the ships of Eress=C3=ABa, that still came secretly to the west= -shores of the land."

"Every Wish" by Independence17= 76
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/1= 1-1.php

---

All of the AinA entries posted so far can be= found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_= loremaster/
http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e64c27400fafe70470d3b8c3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2865 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66180 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2009 02:17:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Aug 2009 02:17:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f220.google.com) (209.85.219.220) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Aug 2009 02:17:31 -0000 X-Received: by ewy20 with SMTP id 20so4109954ewy.46 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:16:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.93.66 with SMTP id k44mr1374595wef.67.1250043404831; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:16:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:16:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d778ed194b9c0470e869fc X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Twelve X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hcTxh-LmdmoXM18uQzc2B6kxVZVGmh1klBasqJq-4MVrjieAUJU2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d778ed194b9c0470e869fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "They desired to end all friendship between their people and the Eldar of E= ress=C3=ABa, whom they named the Spies of the Valar, hoping to keep their d= eeds and their counsels hidden from the Lords of the West. But all that the= y did was known to Manw=C3=AB, and the Valar were wroth with the Kings of N= =C3=BAmenor, and gave them counsel and protection no more; and the ships of= Eress=C3=ABa came never again out of the sunset, and the havens of And=C3= =BAni=C3=AB were forlorn." Falling Stars by Independence1776 http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/12-1.php -- Please note t= hat the author of this story has rated it for Adult audiences. And if you'= ve somehow missed the last twelve days of posts, the full Akallabeth in Aug= ust project is available here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akal= labeth-in-august/ Enjoy! :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.= net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d778ed194b9c0470e869fc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "They desired to end all friendship between their people and the Eldar= of Eress=C3=ABa, whom they named the Spies of the Valar, hoping to keep th= eir deeds and their counsels hidden from the Lords of the West. But all tha= t they did was known to Manw=C3=AB, and the Valar were wroth with the Kings= of N=C3=BAmenor, and gave them counsel and protection no more; and the shi= ps of Eress=C3=ABa came never again out of the sunset, and the havens of An= d=C3=BAni=C3=AB were forlorn."

Falling Stars by Independence17= 76
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/1= 2-1.php

--

Please note that the author of this story has = rated it for Adult audiences.

And if you've somehow missed the = last twelve days of posts, the full Akallabeth in August project is availab= le here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/
Enjoy! :)


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens= .net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d778ed194b9c0470e869fc-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2866 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34460 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2009 09:19:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Aug 2009 09:19:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f202.google.com) (209.85.221.202) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Aug 2009 09:19:48 -0000 X-Received: by qyk40 with SMTP id 40so3679555qyk.19 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:19:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.90.69 with SMTP id h5mr467132qam.237.1250068752854; Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from ?192.168.1.125? (ool-457c028c.dyn.optonline.net [69.124.2.140]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4sm4362672qwe.55.2009.08.12.02.19.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A828906.2040605@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:19:02 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Akallabeth in August: Day Twelve X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=i56TDCYLPbj7rleEebK2Wx-QoMPsbxiQpf87myY0jPyScIftsmppqQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > "They desired to end all friendship between their people and the Eldar > of Eressëa, whom they named the Spies of the Valar, hoping to keep their > deeds and their counsels hidden from the Lords of the West. But all that > they did was known to Manwë, and the Valar were wroth with the Kings of > Númenor, and gave them counsel and protection no more; and the ships of > Eressëa came never again out of the sunset, and the havens of Andúnië > were forlorn." > > Falling Stars by Independence1776 > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/12-1.php > > I am slowly plowing my way through the AnA stories, and there are so many real works of art. As with all fanfic I don't agree with every interpretation offer, but even where I don't I enjoy being taken on a literary journey through some of my favorite parts of canon. I really drug my feet and think I may have my own *single* entry to contribute, so I am amazed by authors like Independence - this story is (I think?) her third submission to come up so far? I am especially impressed, by her and all the other multiple-submission authors. I would name names, because there *are* other authors who have submitted multiple stories and probably more whose second/third pieces are yet to be revealed -- so I will not name names, or I am sure to overlook someone. And this does not detract from the labor of love that goes into a single piece. (All I am able to manage, and I am painfully aware of how intense these events can be to work with for any piece.) I'm being a bit clumsy with my words, I know. I mainly just wanted to thank everyone for all of the effort they are putting into their very nice stories. The Akallabeth is one of my favorite corners of canon, and I am so glad to see it getting all this attention. Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2867 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24487 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2009 01:44:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Aug 2009 01:44:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ey-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.78.144) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Aug 2009 01:44:11 -0000 X-Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so130558eyb.6 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:43:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.55.195 with SMTP id k45mr112968wec.70.1250127790800; Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:43:10 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dbe606e501920470fc0e27 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Thirteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=dkTyPpIQRCbXgt3Bi4Ty-dJKtEiFwDXv07WFfAvua_qF5W_UFd68 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6dbe606e501920470fc0e27 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "There was a lady Inzilb=C3=AAth, renowned for her beauty, and her mother w= as Lind=C3=B3ri=C3=AB, sister of E=C3=A4rendur, the Lord of And=C3=BAni=C3= =AB in the days of Ar-Sakalth=C3=B4r father of Ar-Gimilz=C3=B4r. Gimilz=C3= =B4r took her to wife, though this was little to her liking, for she was in= heart one of the Faithful, being taught by her mother; but the kings and t= heir sons were grown proud and not to be gainsaid in their wishes. No love = was there between Ar-Gimilz=C3=B4r and his queen, or between their sons." = "Even Roses Have Thorns" by Lady Roisin http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org/akallabeth-in-august/13-1.php --- Please note that this story has be= en rated for adult audiences by its author. For all of the AinA entries so = far, please see the main Akallabeth in August page on our site: http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/ -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund= http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org --0016e6dbe606e501920470fc0e27 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "There was a lady Inzilb=C3=AAth, renowned for her beauty, and her mot= her was Lind=C3=B3ri=C3=AB, sister of E=C3=A4rendur, the Lord of And=C3=BAn= i=C3=AB in the days of Ar-Sakalth=C3=B4r father of Ar-Gimilz=C3=B4r. Gimilz= =C3=B4r took her to wife, though this was little to her liking, for she was= in heart one of the Faithful, being taught by her mother; but the kings an= d their sons were grown proud and not to be gainsaid in their wishes. No lo= ve was there between Ar-Gimilz=C3=B4r and his queen, or between their sons.= "

"Even Roses Have Thorns" by Lady Roisin
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/13-1.php
---

Please note that this story has been rated for adult audi= ences by its author. For all of the AinA entries so far, please see the mai= n Akallabeth in August page on our site: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org/akallabeth-in-august/

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.ne= t/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6dbe606e501920470fc0e27-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2868 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19949 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2009 02:26:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Aug 2009 02:26:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f215.google.com) (209.85.219.215) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Aug 2009 02:26:49 -0000 X-Received: by ewy11 with SMTP id 11so547314ewy.11 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:25:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.28.85 with SMTP id f63mr102219wea.142.1250130349866; Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:25:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A828906.2040605@gmail.com> References: <4A828906.2040605@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:25:49 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99e6e6d3dbe0470fca7b3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Akallabeth in August: Day Twelve X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=CKAFoeZ9nxNcOCh1_5ygt9MQjsukw4vLMNNwSgco7wbPDm5JeDzj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d99e6e6d3dbe0470fca7b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can only agree, Marta! :) Whenever we do something like this, there is always the worry that we will plan it and present it ... and no one will be interested. Especially for Akallabeth in August, I had this worry: Silm fandom, after all, tends to concentrate on the First Age and earlier. (I get quite a few queries from new members asking if their Second-Age stories are even welcome on the archive.) I wasn't sure what level of interest there would be among writers and artists to contribute to the project, and then I wasn't sure what level of interest there would be among readers for actually reading what they put together. To start, I put together with close to forty "events" taken from the Akallabeth. I figured that a few people might be interested in at least a few of them. I had in mind that I would be happy if I had two stories to post each week during August. When all was said and done, I could count on one hand the topics left unclaimed. At the rate we're going, Akallabeth in August will run a few days into September. And the entries have been nothing short of amazing; I'll admit that it's very easy to get carried away from the work I have to do every day on the project by the stories. (They're so much more fun than writing HTML and uploading files! :) We have everything from ficlets on up to novels (yes, there is a novel coming up!) and all manner of interpretations and writing styles. It really couldn't have turned out better. So, yes, I too have to applaud the writers and artists who have lent us their talents for a most spectacular month of fiction and art--and we're only halfway there! :) And I will attest, from what I've seen of the upcoming posts, that there is still a lot to look forward to. Dawn On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:19 AM, Marta wrote: > > > I'm being a bit clumsy with my words, I know. I mainly just wanted to > thank everyone for all of the effort they are putting into their very > nice stories. The Akallabeth is one of my favorite corners of canon, and > I am so glad to see it getting all this attention. > ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d99e6e6d3dbe0470fca7b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can only agree, Marta! :) Whenever we do something like this, there is al= ways the worry that we will plan it and present it ... and no one will be i= nterested. Especially for Akallabeth in August, I had this worry: Silm fand= om, after all, tends to concentrate on the First Age and earlier. (I get qu= ite a few queries from new members asking if their Second-Age stories are e= ven welcome on the archive.) I wasn't sure what level of interest there= would be among writers and artists to contribute to the project, and then = I wasn't sure what level of interest there would be among readers for a= ctually reading what they put together.

To start, I put together wi= th close to forty "events" taken from the Akallabeth. I figured t= hat a few people might be interested in at least a few of them. I had in mi= nd that I would be happy if I had two stories to post each week during Augu= st.

When all was said and done, I could count on one hand the topic= s left unclaimed. At the rate we're going, Akallabeth in August will ru= n a few days into September. And the entries have been nothing short of ama= zing; I'll admit that it's very easy to get carried away from the w= ork I have to do every day on the project by the stories. (They're so m= uch more fun than writing HTML and uploading files! :) We have everything f= rom ficlets on up to novels (yes, there is a novel coming up!) and all mann= er of interpretations and writing styles. It really couldn't have turne= d out better.

So, yes, I too have to applaud the writers and artist= s who have lent us their talents for a most spectacular month of fiction an= d art--and we're only halfway there! :) And I will attest, from what I&= #39;ve seen of the upcoming posts, that there is still a lot to look forwar= d to.

Dawn

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 a= t 5:19 AM, Marta <marta.fandom@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0

I'm being a bit clumsy with my words, I know. I = mainly just wanted to
thank everyone for all of the effort they are pu= tting into their very
nice stories. The Akallabeth is one of my favori= te corners of canon, and
I am so glad to see it getting all this atten= tion.






~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g
--0016e6d99e6e6d3dbe0470fca7b3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2869 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80065 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2009 02:03:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Aug 2009 02:03:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ey-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.78.27) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Aug 2009 02:03:47 -0000 X-Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so254339eyd.55 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:02:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.28.85 with SMTP id f63mr269450wea.142.1250215363507; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:02:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99e6ea275ee0471107203 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Fourteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rXz9oOcdsa4AarOInvjoBAbm4vOL6Urrl4e-S1cVtN-NpDZ3ZzaY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d99e6ea275ee0471107203 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Inzilad=C3=BBn, the elder, was like his mother in mind as in body; but Gim= ilkh=C3=A2d, the younger, went with his father, unless he were yet prouder = and more wilful. To him Ar-Gimilz=C3=B4r would have yielded the sceptre rat= her than to the elder son, if the laws had allowed." "The Far-Seeing King"= by Lady Roisin http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-augus= t/14-1.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremas= ter/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d99e6ea275ee0471107203 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Inzilad=C3=BBn, the elder, was like his mother in mind as in body; bu= t Gimilkh=C3=A2d, the younger, went with his father, unless he were yet pro= uder and more wilful. To him Ar-Gimilz=C3=B4r would have yielded the sceptr= e rather than to the elder son, if the laws had allowed."

&quo= t;The Far-Seeing King" by Lady Roisin
http://www.silmarillio= nwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/14-1.php

-= -
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org
--0016e6d99e6ea275ee0471107203-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2870 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80362 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2009 03:27:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2009 03:27:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f221.google.com) (209.85.219.221) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2009 03:27:21 -0000 X-Received: by ewy21 with SMTP id 21so1975930ewy.45 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:26:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.21.206 with SMTP id r56mr593783wer.110.1250306781269; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:26:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c71ad8ecfc3047125bb76 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Fifteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=eTGcBcHvS3HcoMsFfXPVw5b69Gz1bKMGsMeTo9pUmGFKUwwYG4mJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364c71ad8ecfc3047125bb76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "But when Inzilad=C3=BBn acceded to the sceptre, he took again a title in t= he Elven-tongue as of old, calling himself Tar-Palantir, for he was far-sig= hted both in eye and in mind, and even those that hated him feared his word= s as those of a true-seer." "To Stand Fast Against the Night" by Fiondil h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/15-1.php -- ~= oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364c71ad8ecfc3047125bb76 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "But when Inzilad=C3=BBn acceded to the sceptre, he took again a title= in the Elven-tongue as of old, calling himself Tar-Palantir, for he was fa= r-sighted both in eye and in mind, and even those that hated him feared his= words as those of a true-seer."

"To Stand Fast Against t= he Night" by Fiondil
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org= /akallabeth-in-august/15-1.php

--
~oOo~
Da= wn Felagund
http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364c71ad8ecfc3047125bb76-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2871 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86834 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2009 01:33:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2009 01:33:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ey-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.78.149) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2009 01:33:55 -0000 X-Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 13so478990eye.14 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:32:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.37.6 with SMTP id x6mr735508wea.25.1250386362601; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:32:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f450d8f991d90471384214 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Sixteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rehByr_CSpyPcBIXOLr0kba6MGYCtx2gLmOftobzClvMdPc5pXCH X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001485f450d8f991d90471384214 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "For Pharaz=C3=B4n son of Gimilkh=C3=A2d had become a man yet more restless= and eager for wealth and power than his father. He had fared often abroad,= as a leader in the wars that the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans made then in the co= astlands of Middle-earth, seeking to extend their dominion over Men; and th= us he had won great renown as a captain both by land and by sea. In the da= ys of their youth together Amandil had been dear to Pharaz=C3=B4n ..." "Th= e Day the Numenoreans Left" by Aiwen http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g/akallabeth-in-august/16-1.php (Please note that this is a multi-chapter = story. Be sure to page through all of the chapters! :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Fela= gund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org --001485f450d8f991d90471384214 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "For Pharaz=C3=B4n son of Gimilkh=C3=A2d had become a man yet more res= tless and eager for wealth and power than his father. He had fared often ab= road, as a leader in the wars that the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans made then in t= he coastlands of Middle-earth, seeking to extend their dominion over Men; a= nd thus he had won great renown as a captain both by land and by sea.
<= br>In the days of their youth together Amandil had been dear to Pharaz=C3= =B4n ..."

"The Day the Numenoreans Left" by Aiwen
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/16-1.ph= p

(Please note that this is a multi-chapter story. Be sure to p= age through all of the chapters! :)

--
~oOo~
Da= wn Felagund
http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001485f450d8f991d90471384214-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2872 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89746 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2009 14:52:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2009 14:52:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2009 14:52:23 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 37733 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Aug 2009 14:41:53 -0000 Message-ID: <347678.37458.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 9K8rOp0VM1mgOFA9SjGJCPgQAIdfRcNnFgIN9FBi7kwJ7IFwwPjgzhJV9Dr_17EE9bjcgpXilzNEyss5CzmhC8JJw0UnDDixfmEgaQTkuPrGIDUkQohk5indD.KuJg8WBGCD4RpckKHR_qd5XcRC8RNom9ilrKjN6XYB3.X.s2JTxWjGX3F2B0ToTDhJoc3nbYYuHNGS80sbefbnwp3slAM4ewvRKOCKAKDp1jn.PcPloIE2.FuJa7MW3NF3Y54KiOlAby_h4.jKUMNaTkKDKtxypahzzMEV7mWu9z31MKBKye1nyt_1gx99zy.IYhgDRrtJ.iM8LNDk_EtDdsuY.maEZtzxyUU- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:41:53 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:41:53 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1129729933-1250433713=:37458" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: OT: Silmarillion based AU RPG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=b9XQDsCbAD9V11iTRdGIL4F-QdHZCEeXZQMQCEfr4oIuQd1gbw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1129729933-1250433713=:37458 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm trying again to get a Silmarillion AU RPG started based on the premise = that Feanor lives. If you're interested, please see my LJ (unlocked post) -= http://alassante.livejournal.com/153872.html. Please email me directly if = interested - alassante7@yahoo.com. Thanks! ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore= me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4= =A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))= =A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((= =B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --0-1129729933-1250433713=:37458 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm trying again to get a Silmarillion AU RPG= started based on the premise that Feanor lives. If you're interested, plea= se see my LJ (unlocked post) - http://alassante.livejournal.com/153872.html= . Please email me directly if interested - alassante7@yahoo.com. Thanks!
~~**~~
I warn = you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
=
JRR Tolkien
 
<= div>
 ..= =B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:-
 =        =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) =  -:|:- 
= =B0=BA.. Alassante= .. =BA=B0=
    -:=A6:-    ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=   -:|:-

--0-1129729933-1250433713=:37458-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2873 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2176 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2009 14:58:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2009 14:58:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2009 14:58:07 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 61537 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Aug 2009 14:58:07 -0000 Message-ID: <944482.60856.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: dep8p98VM1muAyc4_GnKtonB1rbHa13JYG9Jxk3S4myFl8ZgglG_i2VkQxk5JUY0qSz49uoNCNXMPMWtEU4Y9Uu_6Jovgf0YAzsltHrXeeKBaR0rUQMd9vcdRpoO7jE064TSVI1olzuSCwQHBI5bz1miRUgiFvj_6rr7m04gPmSdgAXct8yfamWcI2n4sS6bGTpYAKZYxLN.03gTItYgNijhpWMoEG8KDT0xuWoffmAYS6TehCF33h8iRtr9gKRkTapLLBA7xR8boOYVjO98pJKsqW86geiyEFOO3w.rS6710poCvQZdqZUmoOmmgfz_fXVRNYsXRxRybxNlPu5go0EMRcu0Omk- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:58:06 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:58:06 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <347678.37458.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-766402595-1250434686=:60856" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Silmarillion based AU RPG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=eZE5vmf7AXDhDwLS7YVoTjA9GCwLzQsCyGfDM9kEMRRzRWWiCA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-766402595-1250434686=:60856 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The link messed up going through Yahoo. Lemme try again. http://alassante.= livejournal.com/153872.html ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall ta= ke my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:= =A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 = =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0= -:|:- --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Alassante7 wrote: From= : Alassante7 Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT:= Silmarillion based AU RPG To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild" , lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, A_Long_Expected_C= ontest@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August= 16, 2009, 10:41 AM =A0 I'm trying again t= o get a Silmarillion AU RPG started based on the premise that Feanor lives.= If you're interested, please see my LJ (unlocked post) - http://alassante.= livejournal. com/153872. html. Please email me directly if interested - al= assante7@yahoo. com. Thanks! ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall t= ake my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -= :=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 = =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0= -:|:- --0-766402595-1250434686=:60856 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The link messed up going through Yahoo. Lemme= try again.

http://alassante.livejournal.com/153872.html

~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I = shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
 = ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8)) &n= bsp; -:=A6:-
    &nbs= p;   =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alas= sante<= strong style=3D"color: rgb(96, 0, 191);"> .. =BA=B0
 &= nbsp;  -:=A6:-    ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-


--- On Sun, 8/16/09, Alassante7 wrote:

From: Alassante7 =
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Silmarillion based AU RPG
T= o: "SilmarillionWritersGuild" Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 10:41 AM=

 = ;

I'm trying again to= get a Silmarillion AU RPG started based on the premise that Feanor lives. = If you're interested, please see my LJ (unlocked post) - http://alassante. = livejournal. com/153872. html. Please email me directly if interested - ala= ssante7@yahoo. com. Thanks!

~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
=
 
 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:- <= /font>
        =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4= =A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante<= /span> ..= =BA=B0
    -:=A6:-    ((= =B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-
=
=


--0-766402595-1250434686=:60856-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2874 Return-Path: X-Sender: sirielle@tlen.pl X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34647 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2009 15:05:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2009 15:05:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO poczta.o2.pl) (193.17.41.42) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2009 15:05:19 -0000 X-Received: from poczta.o2.pl (mx2 [127.0.0.1]) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854D2748066 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:04:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (83-168-113-67.static.espol.com.pl [83.168.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.o2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:04:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:04:33 +0200 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.22) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1395584788.20090816170433@tlen.pl> To: Alassante7 In-Reply-To: <944482.60856.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <347678.37458.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <944482.60856.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sirielle Reply-To: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Silmarillion based AU RPG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=aWn-7fnHBPrxxJq9xv4uo5ALGnVuknnNHqnEpwS5fE2bqWz6Jvs X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle Ai Alassante7, A> The link messed up going through Yahoo. Lemme try again. A> http://alassante.livejournal.com/153872.html No, it works in the previous mesasage, too. Great background story! Interesting, I wish I had more time! Good luck with the game :) Suilad, Sirielle sirielle@tlen.pl http://www.sirielle.com http://sirielle.cgsociety.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2875 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27529 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2009 15:21:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2009 15:21:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.94) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2009 15:21:11 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 56425 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Aug 2009 15:21:10 -0000 Message-ID: <922422.56210.qm@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ES2dVmUVM1nZGonkNYvJdF7kSwb9LQOopcU_fu1nN1uYQ23Sddb8mvq4e_5gKKILw4p_Pnkw4Vwep3BKnLE8F9zB9OJGdX0d6N5H1iydoId.F5eVnqATIjNsnY_TOQfOW473_iNdUfJ4clKaslV2nHaEQfccDJxNXl0kSgeNTtbOw3Pbqad39HkP_2cH9VO7HouTyZuEiLLamvZ9FPYbybQeFCFrehiN1GgQScF1dq5AkNTv6cpLJWiEAtQ0j_aLFrM77tTb_61qi9Ra8ao2XNLOsDrmnm9PNOaFXHDZBw1.XxEHyYWlVK74KIAHGl3b4hc- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:21:10 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:21:10 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1395584788.20090816170433@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-852212909-1250436070=:56210" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Silmarillion based AU RPG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=wU737tAM5VCaWMqRUCMNx0x1NXwDhAfgsmwh_KUwAhh78woJHw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-852212909-1250436070=:56210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable someone just asked if this was going to be Het or Slash. Like i told them -= I hadn't originally planned on slash or het either. So I'm open to the sla= sh option. Once I find out who is interested I'll poll everyone and find ou= t if they want it slash AND Het or not. ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me= , I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8= =A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0= =A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8= =B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Sirielle wrot= e: From: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersG= uild] OT: Silmarillion based AU RPG To: "Alassante7" Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 11:04 AM =A0 = Ai Alassante7, A> The link messed up going throug= h Yahoo. Lemme try again. A> http://alassante. livejournal. com/153872. = html No, it works in the previous mesasage, too. Great background story!= Interesting, I wish I had more time! Good luck with the game :) Suila= d, Sirielle sirielle@tlen. pl http://www.si= rielle .com http://sirielle. cgsociety. org = --0-852212909-1250436070=:56210 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
someone just asked if this was going to be He= t or Slash. Like i told them - I hadn't originally planned on slash or het = either. So I'm open to the slash option. Once I find out who is interested = I'll poll everyone and find out if they want it slash AND Het or not.
~~**~~
I warn you= , if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
<= /div>
 
 ..=B7= *=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:-
 &nb= sp;      =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) &nb= sp;-:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0<= /strong>
    -:=A6:-    ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*&= nbsp; -:|:-


--- On Sun, 8/16/09, Sirielle = wrote:

From: Sirielle
Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Silmarillion ba= sed AU RPG
To: "Alassante7"
Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 11:04 AM

 

Ai Alassante7,

A> The link messed = up going through Yahoo. Lemme try again.

A> ht= tp://alassante. livejournal. com/153872. html

No, it works in = the previous mesasage, too. Great background story!
Interesting, I wish= I had more time!
Good luck with the game :)

Suilad,
Siri= elle

sirielle@tlen. pl
http://www.sirielle .com
http://= sirielle. cgsociety. org


--0-852212909-1250436070=:56210-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2876 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76372 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2009 15:21:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2009 15:21:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2009 15:21:48 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 72151 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Aug 2009 15:21:48 -0000 Message-ID: <187460.71874.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: eoHE7sYVM1mhbJY57CEk1h06whgt5T2SG.EupD7aVl5OhrGPQ9Y5qdjOTwn6_JqOhzjuq_K9BhC18dS3yNB0qCl69NQnlImimoncq2.1AHxXK4BBqBXerbI002D0k2eMGGaSkrmb9SYAgnxeeCNuiqyT0xYuAyquRhPaIe8.QvRU0CH1twNfb011r5xfCJtbe3IY.NNAbJRfKYowqb1cPwY6e2uSSomK69DBxN2H4.gggA9rH9AwXntvuf7oNc8w7WyytY4WGaa449iWVMZyKBe3NoMEkW9uOaUb.Kg5IvJMCl2Gu4mcmQNt7pvmbu4vKADlfBfSxaXSKUG9JhnKhlAv6NkVHBk- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:21:48 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:21:48 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1395584788.20090816170433@tlen.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-622236398-1250436108=:71874" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Silmarillion based AU RPG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=g5w0J2XAf4hv-N3YMbwPbrQ-DJjUxnyY9JVgHByqgpvUoDAfGA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-622236398-1250436108=:71874 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable thanks! I wish you had more time too! ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, = I shall take my revenge.=A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8)= )=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-= :|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.= =B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Sirielle wrote: = From: Sirielle Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild= ] OT: Silmarillion based AU RPG To: "Alassante7" Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 11:04 AM =A0 = Ai Alassante7, A> The link messed up going through Ya= hoo. Lemme try again. A> http://alassante. livejournal. com/153872. html= No, it works in the previous mesasage, too. Great background story! In= teresting, I wish I had more time! Good luck with the game :) Suilad, = Sirielle sirielle@tlen. pl http://www.siriel= le .com http://sirielle. cgsociety. org = --0-622236398-1250436108=:71874 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
thanks! I wish you had more time too!

=
~~**~~
I warn you, = if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
=
 ..=B7*= =B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:-
 &nbs= p;      =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) &nbs= p;-:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante<= font size=3D"2"> .. =BA=B0
    -:=A6:-    ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*&nbs= p; -:|:-


--- On Sun, 8/16/09, Sirielle <= /b> wrote:

From: Sirielle
Subject: Re[2]: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] OT: Silmarillion base= d AU RPG
To: "Alassante7" Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 11:04 AM

 

Ai Alassante7,

A> The link messed = up going through Yahoo. Lemme try again.

A> ht= tp://alassante. livejournal. com/153872. html

No, it works in = the previous mesasage, too. Great background story!
Interesting, I wish= I had more time!
Good luck with the game :)

Suilad,
Siri= elle

sirielle@tlen. pl
http://www.sirielle .com
http://= sirielle. cgsociety. org


--0-622236398-1250436108=:71874-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2877 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35422 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2009 01:18:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2009 01:18:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ey-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.78.24) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2009 01:18:37 -0000 X-Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 25so546122eya.19 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:18:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.26.82 with SMTP id b60mr918748wea.177.1250471916814; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:18:36 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e655991a6743b204714c2e4a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Seventeen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=T1GIto4rsCV97H6VDfeV4wcW7LScbl_bCxwsqHwn09bDqE4ns2mv X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e655991a6743b204714c2e4a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "And it came to pass that Tar-Palantir grew weary of grief and died. He had= no son, but a daughter only, whom he named M=C3=ADriel in the Elven-tongue= ; and to her now by right and the laws of the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans came th= e sceptre. But Pharaz=C3=B4n took her to wife against her will, doing evil = in this and evil also in that the laws of N=C3=BAmenor did not permit the m= arriage, even in the royal house, of those more nearly akin than cousins in= the second degree. And when they were wedded, he seized the sceptre into h= is own hand, taking the title of Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4n (Tar-Calion in the Elven-= tongue); and the name of his queen he changed to Ar-Zimraphel." "Prisoners= of Conscience" by JDE http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-i= n-august/17-1.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_= loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e655991a6743b204714c2e4a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "And it came to pass that Tar-Palantir grew weary of grief and died. H= e had no son, but a daughter only, whom he named M=C3=ADriel in the Elven-t= ongue; and to her now by right and the laws of the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans ca= me the sceptre. But Pharaz=C3=B4n took her to wife against her will, doing = evil in this and evil also in that the laws of N=C3=BAmenor did not permit = the marriage, even in the royal house, of those more nearly akin than cousi= ns in the second degree. And when they were wedded, he seized the sceptre i= nto his own hand, taking the title of Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4n (Tar-Calion in the E= lven-tongue); and the name of his queen he changed to Ar-Zimraphel."
"Prisoners of Conscience" by JDE
http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/17-1.php

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org
--0016e655991a6743b204714c2e4a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2878 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34786 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2009 18:20:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2009 18:20:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2009 18:20:49 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 70585 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Aug 2009 18:20:49 -0000 Message-ID: <994583.70465.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 0EwRgBIVM1nlWJyDKdKKEWYujzlprd9_2FHjvkmp4Y92dVo7cowKQmVywpkAkY1NOto78nSkC5Sh7OqOYTHFzAu54YrmyLUPDDj82BxVhEUMnXu.9AoIAQvJjZvKUAHw.zj91BVeu2lvKINJD0dOHbNOc4CZ_KYG.7CPgOmvxi_jgTPaoyB5oY6Xo.xg.0PkRBgzwHJwVhj1lkGKmz_zvTEY0n_i1.NdS3x_PMgUUpnbzmkLL5pBy_NIOGmM2Upu80XYeIB3aVR5GPko7qyrJ2_vjb4VLrMYd2xkeM2kSWBrQ0p2GTdUnCWZKma9aWM31urXIcx18eMLRS8GJLe1tNEY3LMvGhy3D5UJWKrD X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:20:48 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:20:48 -0700 (PDT) To: lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild , open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, SoA , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-815957598-1250533248=:70465" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: A Long Expected_Contest ..::September's Theme - What If So-And-So Lived (or died)?::.. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=wDGKoUicidjrbCH_MYE-a0WMl_h-96ZxIhmf3gG-ku93_uy9gw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-815957598-1250533248=:70465 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Imagine the events that would be different if Boromir lived. Or Denethor= . =A0 Or if Merry had died. Who would be there to help Eowyn to kill the W= itch King? =A0 How would the War of the Rings be changed by one death? =A0 = What if Beleg had lived or Fingolfin or Fingon? =A0 Or Maedhros had died i= n captivity instead of being saved by Fingon? =A0 Celebrimbor' s death, one= of the most tragic ones IMO, *could* be changed and he could live. =A0 Wo= uld he make more rings for the Elves? =A0 The theme for September is 'What = If So-And-So Lived/Died'. =A0 It does have to be based on documented event= s=A0and it will need to be based on an actual character in the books. Each = writer has until=A0September 30th to turn in the story to alec_votecoordina= tor@yahoo.com. =A0 Note - I have changed the email address to the same ad= dress as voting due to some confusion of where to send things. SEND ALL STO= RIES AND VOTES TO alec_votecoordinator@yahoo.com. =A0 Please include the pr= oper formatting for LJ. If you have any questions about how to do that, fee= l free to ask. Good luck and happy writing! =A0 http://groups.yahoo.com/g= roup/A_Long_Expected_Contest/ =A0 _,_._,___ --0-815957598-1250533248=:70465 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--0-815957598-1250533248=:70465-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2879 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6215 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2009 03:23:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Aug 2009 03:23:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f228.google.com) (209.85.219.228) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 2009 03:23:24 -0000 X-Received: by ewy28 with SMTP id 28so3701380ewy.41 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:22:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.2.201 with SMTP id 51mr1182434wef.17.1250565744052; Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:22:24 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c7cfbf149060471620695 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Eighteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ohK4uneNsJX8zRilgu9NqA3Zvab3GqATmD9jWB9hMk8ROoZu_aDX X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364c7cfbf149060471620695 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "And Sauron came. Even from his mighty tower of Barad-d=C3=BBr he came, and= made no offer of battle. For he perceived that the power and majesty of th= e Kings of the Sea surpassed all rumour of them, so that he could not trust= even the greatest of his servants to withstand them; and he saw not his ti= me yet to work his will with the D=C3=BAnedain. And he was crafty, well ski= lled to gain what he would by subtlety when force might not avail. Therefor= e he humbled himself before Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4n and smoothed his tongue; and m= en wondered, for all that he said seemed fair and wise." "Hostage" by Surg= icalSteel http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/18-1= .php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364c7cfbf149060471620695 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "And Sauron came. Even from his mighty tower of Barad-d=C3=BBr he came= , and made no offer of battle. For he perceived that the power and majesty = of the Kings of the Sea surpassed all rumour of them, so that he could not = trust even the greatest of his servants to withstand them; and he saw not h= is time yet to work his will with the D=C3=BAnedain. And he was crafty, wel= l skilled to gain what he would by subtlety when force might not avail. The= refore he humbled himself before Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4n and smoothed his tongue; = and men wondered, for all that he said seemed fair and wise."

= "Hostage" by SurgicalSteel
http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/18-1.php

--
= ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org<= /a>
--0016364c7cfbf149060471620695-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2880 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97535 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2009 03:26:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Aug 2009 03:26:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f228.google.com) (209.85.220.228) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2009 03:26:26 -0000 X-Received: by fxm28 with SMTP id 28so3810056fxm.17 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:25:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.86.145 with SMTP id w17mr1376237wee.85.1250652321386; Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:25:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d508e55a919f0471762f54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Nineteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=DX7ZZ4uz0_mW36t5qdjmR-m9s4AFQ6qqSnTBN6PAk5C78-sI06G3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d508e55a919f0471762f54 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Yet such was the cunning of his mind and mouth, and the strength of his hidden will, that ere three years had passed he had become closest to the secret counsels of the King; for flattery sweet as honey was ever on his tongue, and knowledge he had of many things yet unrevealed to Men." "The Last Temptation" by Fireworks http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/19-1.php (Please note that this is a multi-chapter story, so be sure to page through all the chapters! :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d508e55a919f0471762f54 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Yet such was the cunning of his mind and mouth, and the strength of h= is hidden will, that ere three years had passed he had become closest to th= e secret counsels of the King; for flattery sweet as honey was ever on his = tongue, and knowledge he had of many things yet unrevealed to Men."
"The Last Temptation" by Fireworks
http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/19-1.php

(Please = note that this is a multi-chapter story, so be sure to page through all the= chapters! :)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/h= eretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d508e55a919f0471762f54-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2881 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27506 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2009 02:27:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2009 02:27:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f211.google.com) (209.85.219.211) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2009 02:27:21 -0000 X-Received: by ewy7 with SMTP id 7so1527559ewy.31 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:26:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.210.70.14 with SMTP id s14mr2231442eba.20.1250735168641; Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:26:08 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c3d106f5c0e0471897916 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Twenty X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=u28y3LBdue6O9vpw60fixTWUtaPtIUntWJi2buZvwOgtH6gGCCge X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174c3d106f5c0e0471897916 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today for AinA, we have two pieces, a drabble and a short story, so do chec= k them both out! :) "And Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4n said: 'Who is the Lord of the Da= rkness?' Then behind locked doors Sauron spoke to the King, and he lied, s= aying: 'It is he whose name is not now spoken; for the Valar have deceived = you concerning him. His name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, and = he shall make you stronger than they.'" "His Own Dark Designs" by Independ= ence1776 http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/20-1.= php "Isildur said no word, but went out by night and did a deed for which = he was afterwards renowned." "A Game of Risk" by Lyra http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/20-2.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund = http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org --0015174c3d106f5c0e0471897916 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today for AinA, we have two pieces, a drabble and a short story, so do chec= k them both out! :)

"And Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4n said: 'Who is the= Lord of the Darkness?'

Then behind locked doors Sauron spoke to= the King, and he lied, saying: 'It is he whose name is not now spoken;= for the Valar have deceived you concerning him. His name is Melkor, Lord o= f All, Giver of Freedom, and he shall make you stronger than they.'&quo= t;

"His Own Dark Designs" by Independence1776
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/20-1.php
"Isildur said no word, but went out by night and did a deed for= which he was afterwards renowned."

"A Game of Risk" = by Lyra
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-aug= ust/20-2.php

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.ne= t/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015174c3d106f5c0e0471897916-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2882 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23093 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2009 03:49:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2009 03:49:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f208.google.com) (209.85.219.208) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2009 03:49:42 -0000 X-Received: by ewy4 with SMTP id 4so391048ewy.27 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:48:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.10.72 with SMTP id 50mr117528weu.127.1250826509545; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:48:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636499281c6f0fc04719ebd32 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Twenty-One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=BIlW0G_NI_0GVNSS1dR9BGYEqcuWzgsOrb8X4Ts5OW844ZdrX2w1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636499281c6f0fc04719ebd32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "But Sauron caused to be built upon the hill in the midst of the city of th= e N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans, Armenelos the Golden, a mighty temple; and it was = in the form of a circle at the base, and there the walls were fifty feet in= thickness, and the width of the base was five hundred feet across the cent= re, and the walls rose from the ground five hundred feet, and they were cro= wned with a mighty dome. And that dome was roofed all with silver, and rose= glittering in the sun, so that the light of it could be seen afar off; but= soon the light was darkened, and the silver became black." "A Struggle wi= th Darkness" by Fireworks http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabet= h-in-august/21-1.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heret= ic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636499281c6f0fc04719ebd32 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "But Sauron caused to be built upon the hill in the midst of the city = of the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans, Armenelos the Golden, a mighty temple; and it= was in the form of a circle at the base, and there the walls were fifty fe= et in thickness, and the width of the base was five hundred feet across the= centre, and the walls rose from the ground five hundred feet, and they wer= e crowned with a mighty dome. And that dome was roofed all with silver, and= rose glittering in the sun, so that the light of it could be seen afar off= ; but soon the light was darkened, and the silver became black."
<= br>"A Struggle with Darkness" by Fireworks
http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/21-1.php

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
<= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org">http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org
--001636499281c6f0fc04719ebd32-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2883 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9267 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2009 04:56:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2009 04:56:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f217.google.com) (209.85.219.217) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2009 04:56:50 -0000 X-Received: by ewy17 with SMTP id 17so1124016ewy.2 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:56:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.49.193 with SMTP id x43mr384563web.42.1250917009612; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:56:49 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f62684005eb80471b3d035 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Twenty-Two X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=kNeYuZKjUPAHUaxDPqVpaqbiSsbLrLU6-JlEdaaqV76MVVbwOD1r X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001485f62684005eb80471b3d035 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "And the first fire upon the altar Sauron kindled with the hewn wood of Nimloth, and it crackled and was consumed; but men marvelled at the reek that went up from it, so that the land lay under a cloud for seven days, until slowly it passed into the west." "While We Live" by JDE http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/22-1.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001485f62684005eb80471b3d035 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "And the first fire upon the altar Sauron kindled with the hewn wood o= f Nimloth, and it crackled and was consumed; but men marvelled at the reek = that went up from it, so that the land lay under a cloud for seven days, un= til slowly it passed into the west."

"While We Live"= by JDE
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-aug= ust/22-1.php

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.ne= t/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001485f62684005eb80471b3d035-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2884 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40819 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2009 03:44:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2009 03:44:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f210.google.com) (209.85.219.210) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2009 03:44:35 -0000 X-Received: by ewy6 with SMTP id 6so1668507ewy.34 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:43:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.28.75 with SMTP id f53mr615787wea.165.1250999014395; Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:43:34 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d27c93de0f5a0471c6e7c3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Twenty-Three X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=4bTiPmTPA_wu9mqyJVJy0DEFUD19_H10Tyxk8WsqoAdc2DWhf0zO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d27c93de0f5a0471c6e7c3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Thereafter the fire and smoke went up without ceasing; for the power of Sauron daily increased, and in that temple, with spilling of blood and torment and great wickedness, men made sacrifice to Melkor that he should release them from Death." "Sacrifice" by SurgicalSteel http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/23-1.php (Please note that this story has been rated for adult audiences by its author) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d27c93de0f5a0471c6e7c3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Thereafter the fire and smoke went up without ceasing; for the power = of Sauron daily increased, and in that temple, with spilling of blood and t= orment and great wickedness, men made sacrifice to Melkor that he should re= lease them from Death."

"Sacrifice" by SurgicalSteel=
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/23-= 1.php

(Please note that this story has been rated for adult audi= ences by its author)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhaven= s.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d27c93de0f5a0471c6e7c3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2885 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54603 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2009 02:20:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Aug 2009 02:20:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f227.google.com) (209.85.219.227) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Aug 2009 02:20:29 -0000 X-Received: by ewy27 with SMTP id 27so2289182ewy.40 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:19:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.86.1 with SMTP id v1mr858219wee.97.1251080369312; Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:19:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6daa93dff92cf0471d9d871 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Twenty-Four X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=T2YSXuEe66q4v4XRaZQwOL0d_gwuudSLY6NwU9EN7FVEjTq3zMLS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6daa93dff92cf0471d9d871 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "And they sailed now with power and armoury to Middle-earth, and they came no longer as bringers of gifts, nor even as rulers, but as fierce men of war. And they hunted the men of Middle-earth and took their goods and enslaved them, and many they slew cruelly upon their altars." "War Children" by Fireworks http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/24-1.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6daa93dff92cf0471d9d871 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "And they sailed now with power and armoury to Middle-earth, and they = came no longer as bringers of gifts, nor even as rulers, but as fierce men = of war. And they hunted the men of Middle-earth and took their goods and en= slaved them, and many they slew cruelly upon their altars."

&q= uot;War Children" by Fireworks
http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/24-1.php

--
~= oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6daa93dff92cf0471d9d871-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2886 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30092 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2009 02:06:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Aug 2009 02:06:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f205.google.com) (209.85.219.205) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 2009 02:06:53 -0000 X-Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so2627150ewy.30 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:05:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.48.209 with SMTP id v59mr1173711web.78.1251165948865; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:05:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f42318efeee30471edc574 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Twenty-Five X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YJ68HMw0GGgkY6hBSy8kuMtwvIy9eh-NvBmS7NEIu0_hRQTf8ITD X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001485f42318efeee30471edc574 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Now came the hour that Sauron had prepared and long had awaited. And Sauron spoke to the King, saying that his strength was now so great that he might think to have his will in all things, and be subject to no command or ban." "Into This Wild Abyss: This Mortal Coil" by Pandemonium_213 http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/25-1.php --- Since it is the 25th of August and Ar-Pharazon is just getting talked into annihilating his people, it's probably becoming obvious to many of you that "Akallabeth in August" would actually be more properly termed "Akallabeth in August and a Little Bit of September." The response we got for this project was nothing short of overwhelming, and rather than trying to cram multiple stories into single days, we're going to let the project run its course and end whenever it chooses to, which will probably be the first week of September. However, we're not going to change the name from "Akallebeth in August"; it's just easier to type. :) Thank you to all of you still hanging in with the Numenoreans and a special thanks to those of you who have given such encouraging reviews to the AinA authors! -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001485f42318efeee30471edc574 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Now came the hour that Sauron had prepared and long had awaited. And = Sauron spoke to the King, saying that his strength was now so great that he= might think to have his will in all things, and be subject to no command o= r ban."

"Into This Wild Abyss: This Mortal Coil" by = Pandemonium_213
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabet= h-in-august/25-1.php

---

Since it is the 25th of August = and Ar-Pharazon is just getting talked into annihilating his people, it'= ;s probably becoming obvious to many of you that "Akallabeth in August= " would actually be more properly termed "Akallabeth in August an= d a Little Bit of September." The response we got for this project was= nothing short of overwhelming, and rather than trying to cram multiple sto= ries into single days, we're going to let the project run its course an= d end whenever it chooses to, which will probably be the first week of Sept= ember. However, we're not going to change the name from "Akallebet= h in August"; it's just easier to type. :)

Thank you to al= l of you still hanging in with the Numenoreans and a special thanks to thos= e of you who have given such encouraging reviews to the AinA authors!

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org
--001485f42318efeee30471edc574-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2887 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21867 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2009 05:22:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Aug 2009 05:22:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ey-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.78.26) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Aug 2009 05:22:56 -0000 X-Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so896457eyd.25 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:22:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.28.75 with SMTP id f53mr1468862wea.165.1251264136847; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:22:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d27c9365a2a5047204a24b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Twenty-Six X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wxrSjFqLkEqafYezTpnclzwRBqWzHviLEkEWl81gbEvlPTYu6w8O X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d27c9365a2a5047204a24b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "And Sauron, sitting in his black seat in the midst of the Temple, had laug= hed ..." "A-chibi-b=C3=AAth in August: A Comic Interlude" by Whitewave htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/26-1.php -- ~oO= o~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d27c9365a2a5047204a24b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "And Sauron, sitting in his black seat in the midst of the Temple, had= laughed ..."

"A-chibi-b=C3=AAth in August: A Comic Interl= ude" by Whitewave
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/ak= allabeth-in-august/26-1.php

--
~oOo~
Dawn = Felagund
http://= themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d27c9365a2a5047204a24b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2888 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96887 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2009 02:42:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Aug 2009 02:42:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f205.google.com) (209.85.219.205) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 2009 02:42:45 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ew0-f205.google.com with SMTP id 1so773314ewy.30 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:42:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.88.195 with SMTP id a45mr1811450wef.63.1251340965349; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:42:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99a21bb8ac304721685ad X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Twenty-Seven X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=pwm_t-7bgfSG_5v8JuOh2dMJyoS5BklyoUOrUW4BbL5AEI9p7ets X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d99a21bb8ac304721685ad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "It is said that Amandil set sail in a small ship at night, and steered first eastward, and then went about and passed into the west. And he took with him three servants, dear to his heart, and never again were they heard of by word or sign in this world, nor is there any tale or guess of their fate." "At the Edge of the World" by Lady Roisin http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/27-1.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d99a21bb8ac304721685ad Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "It is said that Amandil set sail in a small ship at night, and steere= d first eastward, and then went about and passed into the west. And he took= with him three servants, dear to his heart, and never again were they hear= d of by word or sign in this world, nor is there any tale or guess of their= fate."

"At the Edge of the World" by Lady Roisinhttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/27-1.p= hp

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_= loremaster/
http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d99a21bb8ac304721685ad-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2889 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38168 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2009 14:17:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Aug 2009 14:17:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f224.google.com) (209.85.219.224) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 2009 14:17:16 -0000 X-Received: by ewy24 with SMTP id 24so1251730ewy.23 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:15:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.8.79 with SMTP id 57mr2017747weq.202.1251382554723; Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:15:54 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c7bcda706600472203492 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Mod Post: Limited Online Time for Dawn This Weekend X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YiK36zwLmDcA0H85K5Q6HGIY-dSNd3uA-ZhDrwGFJPNSm3C6uXE6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364c7bcda706600472203492 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, everyone, I just wanted to give everyone a heads-up that I will have very limited time online this weekend, beginning this afternoon. I am going away for the weekend with my family, and while I will have Internet access and will have to be online at least once per day to upload new AinA pages, then I hope that will be the extent of it. :) I always welcome questions and concerns about the group at my private email account, and everyone is welcome to continue doing so while I'm away, but if you have an urgent issue or something that you'd like to see resolved before the end of the weekend, please send an email to *moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org*. This account auto-forwards to my private email account as well as to several of my co-moderators, who will be happy to help you while I'm away. I will "see" you all next week! :) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364c7bcda706600472203492 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I just wanted to give everyone a heads-up that I will = have very limited time online this weekend, beginning this afternoon. I am = going away for the weekend with my family, and while I will have Internet a= ccess and will have to be online at least once per day to upload new AinA p= ages, then I hope that will be the extent of it. :)

I always welcom= e questions and concerns about the group at my private email account, and e= veryone is welcome to continue doing so while I'm away, but if you have= an urgent issue or something that you'd like to see resolved before th= e end of the weekend, please send an email to moderator AT silmarillionw= ritersguild DOT org. This account auto-forwards to my private email acc= ount as well as to several of my co-moderators, who will be happy to help y= ou while I'm away.

I will "see" you all next week! :)= All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagu= nd
http://themid= havens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364c7bcda706600472203492-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2890 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10359 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2009 21:33:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Aug 2009 21:33:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 2009 21:33:09 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Aug 2009 21:32:42 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Aug 2009 21:32:42 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:32:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Mod Post: Limited Online Time for Dawn This Weekend X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=2Hd3A1mvinsSRlbCxuGsCE84uO6GAJV95VKOLVHC0SIh5pnrwJ_x93tdBH5IA7bjW07Rng X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel Have fun, dawn! " many many hugs" Enjoy your time with your family! "hugs= " Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund = wrote: > > Hi, everyone, > > I just wanted to give every= one a heads-up that I will have very limited time > online this weekend, be= ginning this afternoon. I am going away for the > weekend with my family, a= nd while I will have Internet access and will have > to be online at least = once per day to upload new AinA pages, then I hope > that will be the exten= t of it. :) > > I always welcome questions and concerns about the group at = my private email > account, and everyone is welcome to continue doing so wh= ile I'm away, but if > you have an urgent issue or something that you'd lik= e to see resolved before > the end of the weekend, please send an email to = *moderator AT > silmarillionwritersguild DOT org*. This account auto-forwar= ds to my private > email account as well as to several of my co-moderators,= who will be happy > to help you while I'm away. > > I will "see" you all n= ext week! :) All the best, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http:/= /themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2891 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84582 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2009 03:30:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2009 03:30:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web112418.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.137.26.189) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2009 03:30:42 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 64070 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Aug 2009 03:30:29 -0000 Message-ID: <820132.63046.qm@web112418.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 5g05BC4VM1lb8VpCQrNZVCIcCCTKrDSMUXDxNlaueO6HaQil1xHVlU1G X-Received: from [114.124.3.75] by web112418.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:30:29 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:30:29 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-594000695-1251430229=:63046" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: melissa chandra Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: Limited Online Time for Dawn This Weekend X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=jjrONNdyGXF0ljsuW7gS_goxlzKGsrvhxSD9d9sY3runoUGEaAQ X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch --0-594000695-1251430229=:63046 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Happy holiday, Dawn! :) - Rey --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subjec= t: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: Limited Online Time for Dawn This W= eekend To: "SWG" Date: Thursday,= August 27, 2009, 10:15 AM =A0 Hi, everyon= e, I just wanted to give everyone a heads-up that I will have very limited= time online this weekend, beginning this afternoon. I am going away for th= e weekend with my family, and while I will have Internet access and will ha= ve to be online at least once per day to upload new AinA pages, then I hope= that will be the extent of it. :) I always welcome questions and concern= s about the group at my private email account, and everyone is welcome to c= ontinue doing so while I'm away, but if you have an urgent issue or somethi= ng that you'd like to see resolved before the end of the weekend, please se= nd an email to moderator AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org. This account= auto-forwards to my private email account as well as to several of my co-m= oderators, who will be happy to help you while I'm away. I will "see" you= all next week! :) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://them= idhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/ http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .o= rg --0-594000695-1251430229=:63046 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Imagine the events = that would be different if Boromir lived. Or Denethor.

=

 

Or if Merry had died. Who would be there to = help Eowyn to kill the Witch King?

 = ;

How would the War of the Rings be changed by one death?

 

= What if Beleg had lived or Fingolf= in or Fingon?

 

Or Maedhros= had died in captivity instead of being saved by Fingon?

 

Celebrimbor' s death, one of the most tragic= ones IMO, *could* be changed and he could live.

 

Would= he make more rings for the Elves?

 

The theme for September is 'What If So-And-So Lived/Died'. <= /FONT>

 

It does have to be based= on documented events and it will need to be based on an actual charac= ter in the books. Each writer has until September 30th to turn in the story to alec_votecoordinator@yahoo.com.

 

Note - I have changed the email address to the same address as= voting due to some confusion of where to send things. SEND ALL STORIES AND= VOTES TO alec_votecoordinator@y= ahoo.com.

 

Please include the proper formatting for LJ. If yo= u have any questions about how to do that, feel free to ask.


Goo= d luck and happy writing!

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_C= ontest/

<= DIV class=3Dx_MsoAutoSig>
 
_,_._,___
Happy holiday, Dawn! :) - Rey

--- On <= b>Thu, 8/27/09, Dawn Felagund wro= te:

From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Mod Post: Limited Online= Time for Dawn This Weekend
To: "SWG"
Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 10:15 AM

 

Hi, everyone,

I just wante= d to give everyone a heads-up that I will have very limited time online thi= s weekend, beginning this afternoon. I am going away for the weekend with m= y family, and while I will have Internet access and will have to be online = at least once per day to upload new AinA pages, then I hope that will be th= e extent of it. :)

I always welcome questions and concerns about th= e group at my private email account, and everyone is welcome to continue do= ing so while I'm away, but if you have an urgent issue or something that yo= u'd like to see resolved before the end of the weekend, please send an emai= l to moderator AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org. This account au= to-forwards to my private email account as well as to several of my co-mode= rators, who will be happy to help you while I'm away.

I will "see" = you all next week! :) All the best,

Dawn

-- ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic= _ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org=

=
--0-594000695-1251430229=:63046-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2892 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61635 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2009 03:57:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2009 03:57:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ey-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.78.24) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2009 03:57:14 -0000 X-Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 4so114834eyf.7 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:56:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.70.208 with SMTP id p58mr135660wed.29.1251431761790; Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:56:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502d4a99f466704722ba9ad X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Twenty-Eight X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-Ekap2PHqr6zYpw9fnNo66uOo3F6I4mdsk1dvnpnHApDTfxn-5yp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00504502d4a99f466704722ba9ad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 "But Elendil did all that his father had bidden, and his ships lay off the east coast of the land; and the Faithful put aboard their wives and their children, and their heirlooms, and great store of goods." "Fear and Wonder" by Lady Roisin http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/28-1.php -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00504502d4a99f466704722ba9ad Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
=
"But Elendil did all that his father had bidden, and his ships lay off=
 the east coast of the land; and the Faithful put aboard their wives and th=
eir children, and their heirlooms, and great store of goods."


=
"Fear and Wonder" by Lady Roisin
http://www.silmarillio=
nwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/28-1.php


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
<= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org">http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org
 --00504502d4a99f466704722ba9ad-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2893 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98269 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2009 03:53:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2009 03:53:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f205.google.com) (209.85.219.205) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2009 03:53:15 -0000 X-Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so493414ewy.30 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:52:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.35.69 with SMTP id t47mr404894wea.221.1251517922292; Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:52:02 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367f9e5430349004723fb990 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Twenty-Nine X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=IsSkuD3nEafPlBgnDkgecf8g6PE0ecdgFxj_R655qfQTyidiIGlI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016367f9e5430349004723fb990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "And out of the west there would come at times a great cloud in the evening= , shaped as it were an eagle, with pinions spread to the north and the sout= h; and slowly it would loom up, blotting out the sunset, and then uttermost= night would fall upon N=C3=BAmenor. And some of the eagles bore lightning = beneath their wings, and thunder echoed between sea and cloud." "Into This= Wild Abyss: A Tempest's Name" by Pandemonium_213, Illustrated by Lady Elle= thhttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/29-1.php = -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016367f9e5430349004723fb990 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = 
"And out of t=
he west there would come at times a great cloud in the evening, shaped as i=
t were an eagle, with pinions spread to the north and the south; and slowly=
 it would loom up, blotting out the sunset, and then uttermost night would =
fall upon N=C3=BAmenor. And some of the eagles bore lightning beneath their=
 wings, and thunder echoed between sea and cloud."

"Into This Wi=
ld Abyss: A Tempest's Name" by Pandemonium_213, Illustrated by Lad=
y Elleth
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-augus=
t/29-1.php


--
~oOo~
D= awn Felagund
<= span style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorema= ster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org<= /span>
--0016367f9e5430349004723fb990-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2894 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16262 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2009 03:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2009 03:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f211.google.com) (209.85.219.211) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2009 03:02:43 -0000 X-Received: by ewy7 with SMTP id 7so3022282ewy.31 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:02:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.87.7 with SMTP id x7mr743766wee.53.1251601358740; Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:02:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b1e2635c06047253266b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Thirty X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0Y_KBpDDLWUYToQ9GBeU51BszzR9MjHSUoGnXgKCecfhxzEXStG5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636c5b1e2635c06047253266b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "But pride was now his master, and at last he left his ship and strode upon= the shore, claiming the land for his own, if none should do battle for it.= And a host of the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans encamped in might about T=C3=BAna,= whence all the Eldar had fled." "Small Expectations" by Nolielhttp://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/30-1.php -- ~oOo~ Daw= n Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org --001636c5b1e2635c06047253266b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = 
"But pride wa=
s now his master, and at last he left his ship and strode upon the shore, c=
laiming the land for his own, if none should do battle for it. And a host o=
f the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans encamped in might about T=C3=BAna, whence all t=
he Eldar had fled."

"Small Expectations" by Noliel
=
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/30-1.php

<=
br style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">-- 
~oOo~
=

Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/=


http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org


--001636c5b1e2635c06047253266b--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Thirty-One
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X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund


--0016e6db76b47faa010472662ef5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

"But Il=C3=BAvatar showed forth his power, and he changed the fashion of
th=
e world. And those that sailed furthest set but a girdle about the
Earth an=
d returned weary at last to the place of their beginning; and
they said:

'=
All roads are now bent.'"

"Bedtime Tales of the Sun" by Dawn
Felagundhttp:=
//www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/31-1.php



-- 
~oO=
o~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.sil=
marillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6db76b47faa010472662ef5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable






=


"But Il=C3=BA=
vatar showed forth his power, and he changed the fashion of the world. And =
those that sailed furthest set but a girdle about the Earth and returned we=
ary at last to the place of their beginning; and they said:

'All roads=
 are now bent.'"

"Bedtime Tales of the Sun" by Dawn Fel=
agund
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/3=
1-1.php



-- 

~oOo~
Dawn=
 Felagund

http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremast=
er/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



--0016e6db76b47faa010472662ef5--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:43:28 -0000
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Message-ID: 
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From: "couldnotfindanameiliked" 
Subject: On Finarfin
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52431482; y=PuyFvO4l1McOvdaR3K7aRlUHIdaWH_bhr839eq352x3zZi4otg2w9DVaew
X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked

Hi folks,
Sorry for being absent. What can I say I haven't been in the righ=
t mind frame for the world of Tolkien. Anyway, today I got an interesting m=
essage but before I get to that let me make it clear I am not ranting, angr=
y or anything like that. I am a little confused but that's about it.

So th=
is is in relation to my fanfic "The measure of bravery" (http://www.fanfict=
ion.net/s/1363454/1/The_measure_of_bravery). The summary for which goes "Wa=
s Finarfin a coward for returning to Aman instead of following his brothers=
? He doesn't think so. Happy birthday Starlight. Please review since good o=
r bad I like hearing peoples comments.".

So this is what the message said,=
 "Oh yes, Finarfin was very brave to lick the boots of the Valar and doom h=
is remaining people to an eternity of apologizing for others' actions.  Ver=
y brave and honorable to refuse to try and help the members of his family w=
ho, though they had done evil, needed the most help.  Did it ever occur to =
you that had Finarfin, Nerdanel, and the rest of the Noldor overcome their =
self-righteousness and accompanied their less restrained kin, the Second an=
d Third Kinslayings might have been prevented?  Morgoth defeated at less co=
st?  No, for Finarfin is the type to say "for I know I am right" - the arro=
gance of those who feel they are on the side of Good.  Says it all."

First=
ly, I am bit confused as to why I am being personally attacked because I ne=
ver said I agreed with Finarfin. I was merely writing a fanfic from his poi=
nt of view and I thought that from his point of view, he would have thought=
 he was write. Incidentally, this has been happening to me a lot in fandom =
recently where I get accused of holding a particular view just because one =
of the character in my fic expressed such a few. Recently I was accused of =
hating a character I absolutely adore because one of the characters in my f=
anfic really hates him. She's SUPPOSE to hate him! He's her enemy and from =
her perspective was the cause of her best friends death! If she isn't suppo=
se to hate him who is! Sorry, sorry, that's an aside.

Secondly, and more i=
mportantly, I thought the above comment might serve as a nice stimulus for =
this group. What do you guys think? Was Finarfin brave or a coward? Would t=
he Noldor have been better off if Finarfin had joined them or would it just=
 mean more people would have died? Discuss?

-Tinni



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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:04:46 -0000
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "hathorsisle" 
Subject: Re: On Finarfin
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X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle

OK, I could not reply via e-mail nor find it here at first, so sent PM. But=
 since I've found the topic a few thoughts from me:

IMO it was not cowardi=
ce in Finarfin's decision and I doubt his or Nerdanel's presence would chan=
ge anything. Feanor didn't listen to Nerdanel anymore and I doubt she could=
 fight with the oath.

But it would change things greatly if more of the re=
bels came back, definitely ;) Imagine Fingolfin and his people going back. =
There would be more princes of Tirion gracing Thangorodrim and no rescue ti=
ll Valar moved their butts East ;)

It's hard to detach one's creation from=
 their own thoughts on subject, people will always think characters represe=
nt you, even if they not. Don't let it make you feel down!


Suilad,
 Sirie=
lle  



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From: Alassante7 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] On Finarfin
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First of all - you got flamed because the reviewer has nothing better to do=
 than flame people. I wouldn't take it personally.Flamers are idiots. Every=
one has a right to their own opinion and people who try to stop other peopl=
e's creativity are lame.
=A0
Secondly - Finarfin's position was that he did=
 the right thing and I think its a 50/50 shot he was right. For HIM it was =
the best and for his people who remained behind it was the best thing. I do=
 not think they could have prevented the 2nd and 3rd kinslayings although t=
hey could have helped defeat Morgoth. But I think even all of the Noldo cou=
ld not have defeated him without the help of the Valar. The Feanorians were=
 going to attempt to get back the Silmaril no matter what. Nerdanel and Fin=
arfin couldn't have stopped their oath. If Finarfin had left Aman there is =
no telling how the Valar would have felt towards the Noldo in Middle-earth.=
 IMO his staying gave hope to the remaining Noldo at a time when they neede=
d it most.

Just my two cents for what its worth.




~~**~~
I warn you, if=
 you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 
JRR Tolkien
=A0




=A0..=B7*=B4=
=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- 
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=
=A0=A0-:|:-=A0
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0
=A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=
=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:-

--- On Mon, 8/31/09, couldnotfindanameiliked  wrote:


From: couldnotfindanameiliked 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] On Finarfin
To: Silmar=
illionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 4:43 AM

=

=A0 



Hi folks,
Sorry for being absent. What can I say I haven't been in=
 the right mind frame for the world of Tolkien. Anyway, today I got an inte=
resting message but before I get to that let me make it clear I am not rant=
ing, angry or anything like that. I am a little confused but that's about i=
t.

So this is in relation to my fanfic "The measure of bravery" (http://ww=
w.fanficti on.net/s/ 1363454/1/ The_measure_ of_bravery). The summary for w=
hich goes "Was Finarfin a coward for returning to Aman instead of following=
 his brothers? He doesn't think so. Happy birthday Starlight. Please review=
 since good or bad I like hearing peoples comments.".

So this is what the =
message said, "Oh yes, Finarfin was very brave to lick the boots of the Val=
ar and doom his remaining people to an eternity of apologizing for others' =
actions. Very brave and honorable to refuse to try and help the members of =
his family who, though they had done evil, needed the most help. Did it eve=
r occur to you that had Finarfin, Nerdanel, and the rest of the Noldor over=
come their self-righteousness and accompanied their less restrained kin, th=
e Second and Third Kinslayings might have been prevented? Morgoth defeated =
at less cost? No, for Finarfin is the type to say "for I know I am right" -=
 the arrogance of those who feel they are on the side of Good. Says it all.=
"

Firstly, I am bit confused as to why I am being personally attacked beca=
use I never said I agreed with Finarfin. I was merely writing a fanfic from=
 his point of view and I thought that from his point of view, he would have=
 thought he was write. Incidentally, this has been happening to me a lot in=
 fandom recently where I get accused of holding a particular view just beca=
use one of the character in my fic expressed such a few. Recently I was acc=
used of hating a character I absolutely adore because one of the characters=
 in my fanfic really hates him. She's SUPPOSE to hate him! He's her enemy a=
nd from her perspective was the cause of her best friends death! If she isn=
't suppose to hate him who is! Sorry, sorry, that's an aside.

Secondly, an=
d more importantly, I thought the above comment might serve as a nice stimu=
lus for this group. What do you guys think? Was Finarfin brave or a coward?=
 Would the Noldor have been better off if Finarfin had joined them or would=
 it just mean more people would have died? Discuss?

-Tinni















=


      
--0-1156253150-1251721796=:21915
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


First of all - you got flamed because th=
e reviewer has nothing better to do than flame people. I wouldn't take it p=
ersonally.Flamers are idiots. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and=
 people who try to stop other people's creativity are lame.


&nbs=
p;


Secondly - Finarfin's position was that he did the right thin=
g and I think its a 50/50 shot he was right. For HIM it was the best and fo=
r his people who remained behind it was the best thing. I do not think they=
 could have prevented the 2nd and 3rd kinslayings although they co=
uld have helped defeat Morgoth. But I think even all of the Noldo could not=
 have defeated him without the help of the Valar. The Feanorians were going=
 to attempt to get back the Silmaril no matter what. Nerdanel and Finarfin =
couldn't have stopped their oath. If Finarfin had left Aman there is no tel=
ling how the Valar would have felt towards the Noldo in Middle-earth. IMO h=
is staying gave hope to the remaining Noldo at a time when they needed it m=
ost.


Just my two cents for what its worth.






~~**~~


I warn you, if you bore me, I sha=
ll take my revenge.  


JR=
R Tolkien


 










 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:- =

        =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=
=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. <=
/STRONG>=BA=B0
&nb=
sp;   -:=A6:-    ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-


--- O=
n Mon, 8/31/09, couldnotfindanameiliked  wrote:



From: couldnotfindanamei=
liked 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGu=
ild] On Finarfin
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: M=
onday, August 31, 2009, 4:43 AM



  



Hi folks,
So=
rry for being absent. What can I say I haven't been in the right mind frame=
 for the world of Tolkien. Anyway, today I got an interesting message but b=
efore I get to that let me make it clear I am not ranting, angry or anythin=
g like that. I am a little confused but that's about it.

So this is =
in relation to my fanfic "The measure of bravery" (http://www.fanficti on.net/s/ 1363454/1/ The_measure_ of_bravery).=
 The summary for which goes "Was Finarfin a coward for returning to Aman in=
stead of following his brothers? He doesn't think so. Happy birthday Starli=
ght. Please review since good or bad I like hearing peoples comments.".
=

So this is what the message said, "Oh yes, Finarfin was very brave to l=
ick the boots of the Valar and doom his remaining people to an eternity of =
apologizing for others' actions. Very brave and
 honorable to refuse to try=
 and help the members of his family who, though they had done evil, needed =
the most help. Did it ever occur to you that had Finarfin, Nerdanel, and th=
e rest of the Noldor overcome their self-righteousness and accompanied thei=
r less restrained kin, the Second and Third Kinslayings might have been pre=
vented? Morgoth defeated at less cost? No, for Finarfin is the type to say =
"for I know I am right" - the arrogance of those who feel they are on the s=
ide of Good. Says it all."

Firstly, I am bit confused as to why I am=
 being personally attacked because I never said I agreed with Finarfin. I w=
as merely writing a fanfic from his point of view and I thought that from h=
is point of view, he would have thought he was write. Incidentally, this ha=
s been happening to me a lot in fandom recently where I get accused of hold=
ing a particular view just because one of the character in my fic expressed=
 such a few. Recently I was accused of
 hating a character I absolutely ado=
re because one of the characters in my fanfic really hates him. She's SUPPO=
SE to hate him! He's her enemy and from her perspective was the cause of he=
r best friends death! If she isn't suppose to hate him who is! Sorry, sorry=
, that's an aside.

Secondly, and more importantly, I thought the abo=
ve comment might serve as a nice stimulus for this group. What do you guys =
think? Was Finarfin brave or a coward? Would the Noldor have been better of=
f if Finarfin had joined them or would it just mean more people would have =
died? Discuss?

-Tinni






      
--0-1156253150-1251721796=:21915--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:03:36 -0000
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "hathorsisle" 
Subject: How little Mr Little Finwe really was? And who burnt in Losgar?
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=j_4_mxLB0cqX7Jlq6_9t_pc7xMAaw_C7RIvpAS5KXjyK2K7Rlgw
X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle

Hi all!

Two things: first - name meaning vs height/built of the twins, sec=
ond - who finally burnt in Losgar?


Pityafinw=EB 

Feanor must have been g=
ifted with fantastic imagination to make up such names like "Little Finwe" =
and "Last Finwe". Those names could have no meaning at all, especially that=
 no further description is given like in the case of Turkafinwe for example=
. But all the other names had meaning, so do you think it means that both t=
wins were shorter or more slender than the rest of siblings? If so were the=
y average given Maedhros and Celegorm weren't (extra tall, extra strong)? O=
r does it mean that Pityo was smaller than his twin brother?

Or Feanor was=
 too busy and just gave the simplest "first look" names to focus back on hi=
s job ASAP - the newborns were "little" as all the newborns are and "last",=
 definitely, no more babies in the master plan.



Umbarto

The name tree i=
n HoME gives us Pityafinwe/Amrod as Ambarto and Telufinwe/Amras as Ambaruss=
a, which means Pityo was the one who died in burning. But a commentary in H=
oME XII under the mother names on p.353 explains: 

"my father changed the =
name Ambarto to Umbarto in the list and reversed the names of the twin brot=
hers (see note 62), so that Ambarussa becomes the elder of the two and Amba=
rto/Umbarto the youngest of Feanor's children, as he is in the legend told =
here."

/Larger quotation:

"The story first emerged, I think, with the wor=
ds 'The most authentic seems to be thus: The two twins were both red-haired=
. Nerdanel gave them both the name Ambarussa ...' It was then, no doubt, th=
at my father changed the name Ambarto to Umbarto in the list and reversed t=
he names of the twin brothers (see note 62), so that Ambarussa becomes the =
elder of the two and Ambarto/Umbarto the youngest of Feanor's children, as =
he is in the legend told here.
(...) The twins remained alike, but the elde=
r grew darker in hair, and was more dear to his father."/

To me it means P=
ityo/Amrod became Ambarussa and survived, Telvo/Amras became Umbarto and di=
ed in Losgar. Which is more logical that the one dear to mum wanted to go b=
ack, not the older one closer to father.

Why the names on the list hasn't =
been switched then? To keep original the narration untouched? It misleads, =
because we check the list not footnotes, a second fixed list would be a bet=
ter idea, or two options on the original one.

Information in twins bios at=
 TolkienGateway confirms it, but in comments to it I saw a different view r=
egarding Sindarin names, either and now I am not sure anymore:

http://tolk=
iengateway.net/wiki/Talk:Amrod

So maybe Amrod and Amras should be exchange=
d on the lists, too? Or it is totally irrelevant for JRRT never finished it=
, so the names do not match the linguistics?

I just checked "Seven in 07" =
page and Character of the Month page, but no answer there. 


Regards,
Siri=
elle



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--0-1759853800-1251733997=:65573
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,
=A0
Many readers have nothing better to do than flame others. I remembe=
r writing a pairing in Vampire Chronicles that a crazy woman didn't like, a=
nd she flamed me like mad. So don't let this make you feel bad.
=A0
About F=
inarfin, and his decision, I believe he didn't want his people to be under =
the doom of the Valar, never allowed to return, never forgiven - as they be=
lieved it would happen back then - so he made a choice that was very diffic=
ult: to take care of his followers. I am sure he wanted to take care of his=
 children and family first, but when you are a king/prince you need to put =
duty first. 
=A0
He was not adventurous, or ambitious, like his brothers, s=
o he must have followed them because he had no choice. His children were go=
ing. About licking the boots of the Valar, it must have been very difficult=
 for him to return and ask for pardon. Especially when he didn't participat=
e in the kinslaying, as far as I know.
=A0
CC

--- On Mon, 8/31/09, couldno=
tfindanameiliked  wrote:


From: couldnotfindan=
ameiliked 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] =
On Finarfin
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, Augu=
st 31, 2009, 8:43 AM


=A0 



Hi folks,
Sorry for being absent. What can I=
 say I haven't been in the right mind frame for the world of Tolkien. Anywa=
y, today I got an interesting message but before I get to that let me make =
it clear I am not ranting, angry or anything like that. I am a little confu=
sed but that's about it.

So this is in relation to my fanfic "The measure =
of bravery" (http://www.fanficti on.net/s/ 1363454/1/ The_measure_ of_brave=
ry). The summary for which goes "Was Finarfin a coward for returning to Ama=
n instead of following his brothers? He doesn't think so. Happy birthday St=
arlight. Please review since good or bad I like hearing peoples comments.".=


So this is what the message said, "Oh yes, Finarfin was very brave to lic=
k the boots of the Valar and doom his remaining people to an eternity of ap=
ologizing for others' actions. Very brave and honorable to refuse to try an=
d help the members of his family who, though they had done evil, needed the=
 most help. Did it ever occur to you that had Finarfin, Nerdanel, and the r=
est of the Noldor overcome their self-righteousness and accompanied their l=
ess restrained kin, the Second and Third Kinslayings might have been preven=
ted? Morgoth defeated at less cost? No, for Finarfin is the type to say "fo=
r I know I am right" - the arrogance of those who feel they are on the side=
 of Good. Says it all."

Firstly, I am bit confused as to why I am being pe=
rsonally attacked because I never said I agreed with Finarfin. I was merely=
 writing a fanfic from his point of view and I thought that from his point =
of view, he would have thought he was write. Incidentally, this has been ha=
ppening to me a lot in fandom recently where I get accused of holding a par=
ticular view just because one of the character in my fic expressed such a f=
ew. Recently I was accused of hating a character I absolutely adore because=
 one of the characters in my fanfic really hates him. She's SUPPOSE to hate=
 him! He's her enemy and from her perspective was the cause of her best fri=
ends death! If she isn't suppose to hate him who is! Sorry, sorry, that's a=
n aside.

Secondly, and more importantly, I thought the above comment might=
 serve as a nice stimulus for this group. What do you guys think? Was Finar=
fin brave or a coward? Would the Noldor have been better off if Finarfin ha=
d joined them or would it just mean more people would have died? Discuss?

=
-Tinni

















      
--0-1759853800-1251733997=:65573
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,


 


Many re=
aders have nothing better to do than flame others. I remember writing a pai=
ring in Vampire Chronicles that a crazy woman didn't like, and she flamed m=
e like mad. So don't let this make you feel bad.


 

About Finarfin, and his decision, I believe he didn't want his people to=
 be under the doom of the Valar, never allowed to return, never forgiven - =
as they believed it would happen back then - so he made a choice that was v=
ery difficult: to take care of his followers. I am sure he wanted to take c=
are of his children and family first, but when you are a king/prince you ne=
ed to put duty first. 

 


He was not adventurous,=
 or ambitious, like his brothers, so he must have followed them because he =
had no choice. His children were going. About licking the boots of the Vala=
r, it must have been very difficult for him to return and ask for pardon. E=
specially when he didn't participate in the kinslaying, as far as I know.

 


CC

--- On Mon, 8/31/09, couldnotfinda=
nameiliked  wrote:

<=
BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(1=
6,16,255) 2px solid">
From: couldnotfindanameiliked 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] On Finarfin
To: Si=
lmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 8:=
43 AM



  



Hi folks,
Sorry for being absent. What c=
an I say I haven't been in the right mind frame for the world of Tolkien. A=
nyway, today I got an interesting message but before I get to that let me m=
ake it clear I am not ranting, angry or anything like that. I am a little c=
onfused but that's about it.

So this is in relation to my fanfic "Th=
e measure of bravery" (http://www.fanficti on.=
net/s/ 1363454/1/ The_measure_ of_bravery). The summary for which goes =
"Was Finarfin a coward for returning to Aman instead of following his broth=
ers? He doesn't think so. Happy birthday Starlight. Please review since goo=
d or bad I like hearing peoples comments.".

So this is what the mess=
age said, "Oh yes, Finarfin was very brave to lick the boots of the Valar a=
nd doom his remaining people to an eternity of apologizing for others' acti=
ons. Very brave and
 honorable to refuse to try and help the members of his=
 family who, though they had done evil, needed the most help. Did it ever o=
ccur to you that had Finarfin, Nerdanel, and the rest of the Noldor overcom=
e their self-righteousness and accompanied their less restrained kin, the S=
econd and Third Kinslayings might have been prevented? Morgoth defeated at =
less cost? No, for Finarfin is the type to say "for I know I am right" - th=
e arrogance of those who feel they are on the side of Good. Says it all."
Firstly, I am bit confused as to why I am being personally attacked b=
ecause I never said I agreed with Finarfin. I was merely writing a fanfic f=
rom his point of view and I thought that from his point of view, he would h=
ave thought he was write. Incidentally, this has been happening to me a lot=
 in fandom recently where I get accused of holding a particular view just b=
ecause one of the character in my fic expressed such a few. Recently I was =
accused of
 hating a character I absolutely adore because one of the charac=
ters in my fanfic really hates him. She's SUPPOSE to hate him! He's her ene=
my and from her perspective was the cause of her best friends death! If she=
 isn't suppose to hate him who is! Sorry, sorry, that's an aside.

Se=
condly, and more importantly, I thought the above comment might serve as a =
nice stimulus for this group. What do you guys think? Was Finarfin brave or=
 a coward? Would the Noldor have been better off if Finarfin had joined the=
m or would it just mean more people would have died? Discuss?

-Tinni=





      
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Offline at the moment (no in-house itnernet) so this is a drive-by comment on the discussion. I tend to think that Finarfin was a bit of a coward and a wimp for not going to M-e, but am totally aware this was not Tolkien's intent. On the other hand, just to give a bit of perspective from where I am coming from, I am someone who thought Gondolin was a cop-out also. But then, it's all moot anyway, isn't it, ?since it whole situation was rigged by a curse--i.e., that the Noldor were doomed no matter what their strategy or choices had been. Oh, well. Just finished writing a story, where I did everything I could to make Finarfin sympathetic and still most readers didn't much like my positive version of him. I think Dawn Felagund writes the best and most likeable version of Finarfin I have read to date in her novel, Another Man's Cage, and her other stories which fit in that same story universe. 



Oshun


-----Original Message-----
From: couldnotfindanameiliked 
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:43 am
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] On Finarfin



 



Hi folks,
Sorry for being absent. What can I say I haven't been in the right mind frame for the world of Tolkien. Anyway, today I got an interesting message but before I get to that let me make it clear I am not ranting, angry or anything like that. I am a little confused but that's about it.

So this is in relation to my fanfic "The measure of bravery" (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1363454/1/The_measure_of_bravery). The summary for which goes "Was Finarfin a coward for returning to Aman instead of following his brothers? He doesn't think so. Happy birthday Starlight. Please review since good or bad I like hearing peoples comments.".

So this is what the message said, "Oh yes, Finarfin was very brave to lick the boots of the Valar and doom his remaining people to an eternity of apologizing for others' actions. Very brave and honorable to refuse to try and help the members of his family who, though they had done evil, needed the most help. Did it ever occur to you that had Finarfin, Nerdanel, and the rest of the Noldor overcome their self-righteousness and accompanied their less restrained kin, the Second and Third Kinslayings might have been prevented? Morgoth defeated at less cost? No, for Finarfin is the type to say "for I know I am right" - the arrogance of those who feel they are on the side of Good. Says it all."

Firstly, I am bit confused as to why I am being personally attacked because I never said I agreed with Finarfin. I was merely writing a fanfic from his point of view and I thought that from his point of view, he would have thought he was write. Incidentally, this has been happening to me a lot in fandom recently where I get accused of holding a particular view just because one of the character in my fic expressed such a few. Recently I was accused of hating a character I absolutely adore because one of the characters in my fanfic really hates him. She's SUPPOSE to hate him! He's her enemy and from her perspective was the cause of her best friends death! If she isn't suppose to hate him who is! Sorry, sorry, that's an aside.

Secondly, and more importantly, I thought the above comment might serve as a nice stimulus for this group. What do you guys think? Was Finarfin brave or a coward? Would the Noldor have been better off if Finarfin had joined them or would it just mean more people would have died? Discuss?

-Tinni







----------MB_8CBF86CDE4FAC50_2C40_364FC_webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"



Offline at the moment (no in-house itnernet) so this is a drive-by comment on the discussion. I tend to think that Finarfin was a bit of a coward and a wimp for not going to M-e, but am totally aware this was not Tolkien's intent. On the other hand, just to give a bit of perspective from where I am coming from, I am someone who thought Gondolin was a cop-out also. But then, it's all moot anyway, isn't it,  since it whole situation was rigged by a curse--i.e., that the Noldor were doomed no matter what their strategy or choices had been. Oh, well. Just finished writing a story, where I did everything I could to make Finarfin sympathetic and still most readers didn't much like my positive version of him. I think Dawn Felagund writes the best and most likeable version of Finarfin I have read to date in her novel, Another Man's Cage, and her other stories which fit in that same story universe. 




 




Oshun





-----Original Message-----

From: couldnotfindanameiliked 

To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:43 am

Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] On Finarfin








  











Hi folks,

Sorry for being absent. What can I say I haven't been in the right mind frame for the world of Tolkien. Anyway, today I got an interesting message but before I get to that let me make it clear I am not ranting, angry or anything like that. I am a little confused but that's about it.



So this is in relation to my fanfic "The measure of bravery" (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1363454/1/The_measure_of_bravery). The summary for which goes "Was Finarfin a coward for returning to Aman instead of following his brothers? He doesn't think so. Happy birthday Starlight. Please review since good or bad I like hearing peoples comments.".



So this is what the message said, "Oh yes, Finarfin was very brave to lick the boots of the Valar and doom his remaining people to an eternity of apologizing for others' actions. Very brave and honorable to refuse to try and help the members of his family who, though they had done evil, needed the most help. Did it ever occur to you that had Finarfin, Nerdanel, and the rest of the Noldor overcome their self-righteousness and accompanied their less restrained kin, the Second and Third Kinslayings might have been prevented? Morgoth defeated at less cost? No, for Finarfin is the type to say "for I know I am right" - the arrogance of those who feel they are on the side of Good. Says it all."



Firstly, I am bit confused as to why I am being personally attacked because I never said I agreed with Finarfin. I was merely writing a fanfic from his point of view and I thought that from his point of view, he would have thought he was write. Incidentally, this has been happening to me a lot in fandom recently where I get accused of holding a particular view just because one of the character in my fic expressed such a few. Recently I was accused of hating a character I absolutely adore because one of the characters in my fanfic really hates him. She's SUPPOSE to hate him! He's her enemy and from her perspective was the cause of her best friends death! If she isn't suppose to hate him who is! Sorry, sorry, that's an aside.



Secondly, and more importantly, I thought the above comment might serve as a nice stimulus for this group. What do you guys think? Was Finarfin brave or a coward? Would the Noldor have been better off if Finarfin had joined them or would it just mean more people would have died? Discuss?



-Tinni





















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From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: Marta 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] On Finarfin
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=baDmRhJrIfh01kgmthgy5Dz4VN09SLhie63D4p52jVZpBO9xFH2aNg
X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva

Hi Tinni,

First off, am sorry about the flame. That always stings.

On the meat of what you asked:

>     Secondly, and more importantly, I thought the above comment might
>     serve as a nice stimulus for this group. What do you guys think? Was
>     Finarfin brave or a coward? Would the Noldor have been better off if
>     Finarfin had joined them or would it just mean more people would
>     have died? Discuss?
> 

What I found most disturbing about the comment wasn't the claim that 
Finarfin was a coward, but that he had some sort of moral imperative to 
go to Middle-earth *because the others were his kin*. What I hear most 
loudly is the claim that a person has a duty to keep his family members 
from hurting themselves or anyone else. Which is something I just can't 
agree with. I know that in Tolkien's world family connections were 
extremely important, much more so I think even than in similar 
historical periods, but I can't imagine that anyone has a duty to put 
himself in harm's way because a family member has gone destructive.

I personally think the Valar's handling of the Elves by bringing them to 
Valinor rather than dealing with Melkor and taking charge of 
Middle-earth --and for similar reasons their handling of the 
Numenoreans', FWIW-- was very wrong. They shouldn't have asked the Elves 
to leave their homes but instead should have taken what steps they could 
to make those homes safe. That was their job, to create a world where 
the Children could grow, and they'd originally created all of Arda to be 
that home.

But once the Valar brought the Elves out of Middle-earth, I can't think 
of any situation where the Elves would be compelled to *leave* that 
safety and go back into a land more or less ruled by Melkor. That's just 
asking too much, I think. Elves should still be *allowed* to leave, but 
the idea that it was wrong to stay in the safety that was really their 
right (not the safety from other elves but the safety not to be pitted 
against a being as powerful and malevolent as Melkor), after they had 
been really encouraged to give up Middle-earth... I just can't accept that.

The larger question of whether Finarfin should have gone to 
Middle-earth... is too big for me. :-) But on the issue of whether he 
had a special duty to go back to Middle-earth because it was his family 
doing the damage? No, I don't buy that.

Marta


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] On Finarfin
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--000e0cdff8aa62b3bd04727821e8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:43 AM, couldnotfindanameiliked <
sharminchoudhury@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi, Tinni,

> Incidentally, this has been happening to me a lot in fandom recently where
I get accused of holding a particular view just because one of the character
in my fic expressed such a few.

I agree--that's annoying. It's happened to me before as well. It happened a
lot with *Another Man's Cage,* as I recall (and mostly on ff.net); the only
instance that springs immediately to mind was being accused once of being
misogynist because my male characters did not think highly enough of the
women in their lives. I'd dismiss this tendency as a lack of understanding
of PoV but the person who made the "misogynist" accusation is someone whom I
like and respect a good deal. I think it might have to do more with people
holding passionate, strong views and being unable to see what they view as
advocacy against those views as a mere writing tactic, or PoV.

As for whether or not Finarfin is a wimp ...

SWG once declared January as Finarfin Appreciation Month, and I wrote an
essay for it, which is up on the Reference Library as of last month:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/the-accidental-king.php

Finarfin Appreciation Month and the essay that followed was spurred, in
part, by what I saw as a terribly shallow reading of his character, where he
was constantly cast as "wimpy" without any depth beyond that. I suppose that
assuming that he returned to lick the boots of the Valar is one way to look
at it, but I don't think it's the only way and, frankly, we aren't given
enough details, imo, to reach a conclusion either way. What I
*personally*take from Finarfin is that he was under tremendous
pressure to commit an
action that he'd come to view as immoral. I've always believed that the *
easier* decision for Finarfin would have been to follow his brothers to
Middle-earth. By choosing to do what he believed to be right, he made the
more difficult decision, in my opinion.

People may agree or disagree that he made the right choice (personally, I
probably would have been on Feanor's heels), but I don't think it's really
possible to argue that the land and conditions to which he returned were far
from ideal and that it was only a dog's loyalty to the Valar that made him
turn back.

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--000e0cdff8aa62b3bd04727821e8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:43 AM, couldnotfindanameiliked =
<sharminchoudhury@yahoo.co=
m> wrote:

Hi, Tinni,

> Incidentally, this ha=
s been happening to me a lot in fandom recently
where I get accused of hold=
ing a particular view just because one of
the character in my fic expressed=
 such a few.

I agree--that's annoying. It's happened to me b=
efore as well. It happened a lot with Another Man's Cage, as I r=
ecall (and mostly on ff.net); the only instan=
ce that springs immediately to mind was being accused once of being misogyn=
ist because my male characters did not think highly enough of the women in =
their lives. I'd dismiss this tendency as a lack of understanding of Po=
V but the person who made the "misogynist" accusation is someone =
whom I like and respect a good deal. I think it might have to do more with =
people holding passionate, strong views and being unable to see what they v=
iew as advocacy against those views as a mere writing tactic, or PoV.

<=
br>As for whether or not Finarfin is a wimp ...

SWG once declared Ja=
nuary as Finarfin Appreciation Month, and I wrote an essay for it, which is=
 up on the Reference Library as of last month:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/the-accidenta=
l-king.php


Finarfin Appreciation Month and the essay that follo=
wed was spurred, in part, by what I saw as a terribly shallow reading of hi=
s character, where he was constantly cast as "wimpy" without any =
depth beyond that. I suppose that assuming that he returned to lick the boo=
ts of the Valar is one way to look at it, but I don't think it's th=
e only way and, frankly, we aren't given enough details, imo, to reach =
a conclusion either way. What I personally take from Finarfin is tha=
t he was under tremendous pressure to commit an action that he'd come t=
o view as immoral. I've always believed that the easier decision=
 for Finarfin would have been to follow his brothers to Middle-earth. By ch=
oosing to do what he believed to be right, he made the more difficult decis=
ion, in my opinion.


People may agree or disagree that he made the r=
ight choice (personally, I probably would have been on Feanor's heels),=
 but I don't think it's really possible to argue that the land and =
conditions to which he returned were far from ideal and that it was only a =
dog's loyalty to the Valar that made him turn back.


Dawn
-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters=
guild.org



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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: MEFA Reviews Available
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On behalf of Marta, our friendly MEFA admin ... :)

As some of you may know, the first of the reviews written for the 2009
Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards (MEFAs) were displayed at our website
beginning September 1. I'd like to welcome everyone but particularly any
authors competing in the awards to see these reviews.

What is displayed is only the tip of the iceberg. Members can still write
reviews through December 31, so I hope we'll be able to show off lots more
reviews over the coming months. You'll also only see what is known in MEFA
jargon as "final" reviews. Our members can give a review one of three
statuses, and many hold off making their reviews final until they're sure
they don't want to change anything about them. What this means is, there are
reviews already written, which will be displayed on our website over the
next few months. Not to mention the reviews that are yet to be written. So
there should be more reviews displayed through the end of December. Feel
free to check back often. But also feel free to look at what's already
posted - there are over 900 reviews for a variety of authors already
available.

To read reviews for your story:

1. Log in to www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/
2. Click the link "Review Reviews Left By Others For Your Stories."

And that's it! This will show you a list of reviews left for all of your
stories. If you prefer you can see all the reviews for a certain story
together, by clicking on the story ID #. (This will show just the reviews
for that story.)

You can also find the reviews for other peoples' stories as well. To do
this:

1. Log in to www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/
2. Click the "Read All Reviews" links.

>From here you can tell it just to display reviews for a certain author, or
for stories in a certain category or sub-category. Or you may browse all the
reviews displayed. (Earlier reviews are near the start of the list.)

You may want to reply to these reviews. Unlike some archives we don't give
you a way to reply on the website and have it appear next to the reviews
you've received. However, we will gladly forward an email to the reviewer
with your reply if you'd like. Just click the "reply to reviewer" link
beside any review for one of your stories, for instructions on how to email
a reply to a reviewer. Your email address will be shown to the reviewer, but
you will not be told theirs unless they choose to reply back to you.

Finally, you may see some reviews that you think are breaking some MEFA
guideline. For instance, they may need a spoiler warning added or they may
have quotes that aren't properly blocked off. (All quotes should be
bracketed off between [square quotes] so the website knows not to count
them.) If you see anything you think needs correcting, please email me at
mefasupport-at-mefawards-dot-net. Please include the review "header," which
gives information about the story and who reviewed it, and please explain
what you think needs fixing. If I and the other admins agree with your
concern, we'll make the necessary change.

It's not too late to start reviewing yourself. Nominated authors can vote
for any stories in this year's competition (except their own, obviously).
Anyone else can participate by joining the MEFAwards Yahoo group. If you
have forgotten your password or need other help joining up, please check out
this FAQ:

www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/index.php?page=FAQtechsupport#ts_0

and if you still are having trouble, you may email me at
mefasupport-at-mefawards-dot-net for additional help.

Enjoy the reviews!


Marta
(MEFA Admin.)


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0015174c124e8cb185047279a7fc
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On behalf of Marta, our friendly MEFA admin ... :)

As some of you ma=
y know, the first of the reviews written for the 2009
Middle-earth Fanficti=
on Awards (MEFAs) were displayed at our website
beginning September 1. I=
9;d like to welcome everyone but particularly
any authors competing in the =
awards to see these reviews.



What is displayed is only the tip of =
the iceberg. Members can still
write reviews through December 31, so I hope=
 we'll be able to show off
lots more reviews over the coming months. Yo=
u'll also only see what is
known in MEFA jargon as "final" re=
views. Our members can give a review
one of three statuses, and many hold o=
ff making their reviews final
until they're sure they don't want to=
 change anything about them. What
this means is, there are reviews already =
written, which will be
displayed on our website over the next few months. N=
ot to mention the
reviews that are yet to be written. So there should be mo=
re reviews
displayed through the end of December. Feel free to check back o=
ften.
But also feel free to look at what's already posted - there are o=
ver
900 reviews for a variety of authors already available.



To rea=
d reviews for your story:



1. Log in to www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/

2=
. Click the link "Review Reviews Left By Others For Your Stories."=
;



And that's it! This will show you a list of reviews left for=
 all of
your stories. If you prefer you can see all the reviews for a certa=
in
story together, by clicking on the story ID #. (This will show just the
=
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You can also find the reviews for other p=
eoples' stories as well. To do this:



1. Log in to www.mefawards.net/MEFA=
2009/

2. Click the "Read All Reviews" links.



Fro=
m here you can tell it just to display reviews for a certain author,
or for=
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eviews displayed. (Earlier reviews are near the start of the
list.)


You may want to reply to these reviews. Unlike some archives we don't=

give you a way to reply on the website and have it appear next to the
revi=
ews you've received. However, we will gladly forward an email to
the re=
viewer with your reply if you'd like. Just click the "reply to
rev=
iewer" link beside any review for one of your stories, for
instruction=
s on how to email a reply to a reviewer. Your email address
will be shown t=
o the reviewer, but you will not be told theirs unless
they choose to reply=
 back to you.



Finally, you may see some reviews that you think are=
 breaking some MEFA
guideline. For instance, they may need a spoiler warnin=
g added or they
may have quotes that aren't properly blocked off. (All =
quotes should be
bracketed off between [square quotes] so the website knows=
 not to count
them.) If you see anything you think needs correcting, please=
 email me
at mefasupport-at-mefawards-dot-
=
net.
Please include the review "header," which gives information =
about the
story and who reviewed it, and please explain what you think need=
s
fixing. If I and the other admins agree with your concern, we'll make=

the necessary change.



It's not too late to start reviewing yo=
urself. Nominated authors can
vote for any stories in this year's compe=
tition (except their own,
obviously). Anyone else can participate by joinin=
g the MEFAwards Yahoo
group. If you have forgotten your password or need ot=
her help joining
up, please check out this FAQ:



www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/index.php?page=3DFAQtechsupport#ts_0=




and if you still are having trouble, you may email me at mefasupp=
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Enjoy the reviews!




Marta

(MEFA Admin.)


-- 
~oOo=
~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org<=
br>


--0015174c124e8cb185047279a7fc--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Thirty-Two
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"And last of all the mounting wave, green and cold and plumed with foam,
cl=
imbing over the land, took to its bosom Tar-M=C3=ADriel the Queen, fairer t=
han
silver or ivory or pearls. Too late she strove to ascend the steep ways=
 of
the Meneltarma to the holy place; for the waters overtook her, and her =
cry
was lost in the roaring of the wind."

"Zimraphel" by Noliel
http://www=
.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/32-1.php

"But Ar-Pharaz=
=C3=B4n the King and the mortal warriors that had set foot upon the
land of=
 Aman were buried under falling hills: there it is said that they lie
impri=
soned in the Caves of the Forgotten, until the Last Battle and the Day
of D=
oom."

"I who loved her" by Dawn Felagund
http://www.silmarillionwritersgui=
ld.org/akallabeth-in-august/32-2.php

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themid=
havens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

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"And last of all the mounting wave, green and cold and plumed with foa=
m, climbing over the land, took to its bosom Tar-M=C3=ADriel the Queen, fai=
rer than silver or ivory or pearls. Too late she strove to ascend the steep=
 ways of the Meneltarma to the holy place; for the waters overtook her, and=
 her cry was lost in the roaring of the wind."


"Zimraphel=
" by Noliel
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabe=
th-in-august/32-1.php

"But Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4n the King and th=
e mortal warriors that had set foot upon the land of Aman were buried under=
 falling hills: there it is said that they lie imprisoned in the Caves of t=
he Forgotten, until the Last Battle and the Day of Doom."


&quo=
t;I who loved her" by Dawn Felagund
http://www.silmarillionw=
ritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/32-2.php


-- =

~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.=
org



--00504502d4b398918d04727a7fe5--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:36:37 -0400
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X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0
From: Marta 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] On Finarfin
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=Fxy8uRPZAxJe1FZyp-AgVFZGFei62auqfjmNngfbypi3Hoia9PxcnA
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Hi Dawn,

> SWG once declared January as Finarfin Appreciation Month, and I wrote an 
> essay for it, which is up on the Reference Library as of last month:
> 
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/the-accidental-king.php 
> 
> 

I'm glad you mentioned that essay. It's what first made him interesting 
for me. I was going to mention it in my "first reply", actually. (I 
couldn't sleep last night and started to answer this post when I got up 
for a while around the middle of the night, but nixed it because I was 
getting too emotional for a middle-of-the-night fandom post. :-) And 
when I came back this afternoon and composed what I sent, I forgot to 
mention your essay.

I also forgot to mention one of your other stories, whose title I'm 
forgetting at the moment. It has something like "small hands" or 
"smallest hands" in it, and is essentially the story of Earwen and the 
Noldor who remain in Valinor, between the destruction of the Two Trees 
and Finarfin's ascent to the crown of the Noldor. It was one of the most 
moving Silmfics I had read, at least up to that time, and I think it 
shows very nicely an interpretation of the Finarfian Noldor that does 
not consist of them just licking the Valar's boots. And why not? If we 
can admire the Sindar and Avari for defending their home against 
Morgoth, why should we not also cheer for the Noldor who stayed behind 
and defended their right to live in what had become their homeland? 
People like Finarfin (I think?) were born in Valinor, after all.

Dawn, you said that with your temperament you might have been charging 
right after Feanor. It's interesting how that works, because I would 
have been mightily inclined to stay in Valinor. I mean, I know I said 
earlier that I think the Elves shouldn't have been brought away from 
Middle-earth (and I believe that), but for an Elf born in Valinor I can 
understand the desire to stay there. I guess I'm essentially a homebody, 
and I know the pain of losing what you think of as your home. I do not 
think it's cowardice to fight to preserve the home you know. 
Preservation isn't always the right course, but that doesn't mean it 
isn't courageous to try. (My understanding of philosophy - and I may be 
wrong here - is that the virtue courage has to do with a strength of 
will rather than the end trying to be accomplished actually being good.)

Marta


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Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] How little Mr Little Finwe really was? And who burnt in Losgar?
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Hi!

=C2=A0

LOL I won=E2=80=99t comment on the names, I think. The pro=
fessor
mixed up some things and put many loose ends which conflict with one=
 another,
anyway, like where Orodreth is supposed to be put in the family t=
ree and who is
Ereinion=E2=80=99s father. (Hmm. But I am sidetracking here=
=E2=80=A6)

=C2=A0

Ah, F=C3=ABanor was truly a genius, was he not? *roll e=
yes*
*grin* But the =E2=80=98pretty names=E2=80=99 were not only those, act=
ually. Look at Maedhros=E2=80=99
father name: Nelyufinw=C3=AB, =E2=80=9CThi=
rd Finw=C3=AB.=E2=80=9D Thought one couldn=E2=80=99t count, eh? *grin*
Perh=
aps that was why his brood mostly chose their mother names over their
fathe=
r ones, except for Curufin. Personally, I think you were right about the
=
=E2=80=9CLast Finw=C3=AB=E2=80=9D reasoning, and, to me, =E2=80=9CLittle Fi=
nw=C3=AB=E2=80=9D means just like that, one of
the youngest in the family; =
since =E2=80=9Clittle=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t only mean =E2=80=9Csmall=E2=
=80=9D in
physique in its usage in the language (or at least in English). S=
o actually
both were quite similar in meaning=E2=80=A6 apt for a pair of tw=
ins.

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m sorry that I can=E2=80=99t help you with the chan=
ging of names
(and, subsequently, who is supposed to have died in Losgar). =
I commend your
hard work in researching those baffling contradictions, thou=
gh. But well, I
have tried to research about Ereinion=E2=80=99s geneology b=
efore, and since then I
vowed to myself never to try to match things that c=
an never be paired over in
this universe of his. Even the proff=E2=80=99s s=
on couldn=E2=80=99t do it!

=C2=A0

All right. I am rambling=E2=80=A6 :shee=
pish: Well, sorry for that,
and sorry that I can=E2=80=99t be of much help.=


=C2=A0

- Rey




--- On Mon, 8/31/09, hathorsisle  wro=
te:

From: hathorsisle 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuil=
d] How little Mr Little Finwe really was? And who burnt in Losgar?
To: Silm=
arillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 9:03 AM=







=C2=A0




    
                  Hi all!



Two things: first - nam=
e meaning vs height/built of the twins, second - who finally burnt in Losga=
r?



Pityafinw=C3=AB 



Feanor must have been gifted with fantastic imagi=
nation to make up such names like "Little Finwe" and "Last Finwe". Those na=
mes could have no meaning at all, especially that no further description is=
 given like in the case of Turkafinwe for example. But all the other names =
had meaning, so do you think it means that both twins were shorter or more =
slender than the rest of siblings? If so were they average given Maedhros a=
nd Celegorm weren't (extra tall, extra strong)? Or does it mean that Pityo =
was smaller than his twin brother?



Or Feanor was too busy and just gave =
the simplest "first look" names to focus back on his job ASAP - the newborn=
s were "little" as all the newborns are and "last", definitely, no more bab=
ies in the master plan.



Umbarto



The name tree in HoME gives us Pityaf=
inwe/Amrod as Ambarto and Telufinwe/Amras as Ambarussa, which means Pityo w=
as the one who died in burning. But a commentary in HoME XII under the moth=
er names on p.353 explains: 



"my father changed the name Ambarto to Umba=
rto in the list and reversed the names of the twin brothers (see note 62), =
so that Ambarussa becomes the elder of the two and Ambarto/Umbarto the youn=
gest of Feanor's children, as he is in the legend told here."



/Larger qu=
otation:



"The story first emerged, I think, with the words 'The most aut=
hentic seems to be thus: The two twins were both red-haired. Nerdanel gave =
them both the name Ambarussa ...' It was then, no doubt, that my father cha=
nged the name Ambarto to Umbarto in the list and reversed the names of the =
twin brothers (see note 62), so that Ambarussa becomes the elder of the two=
 and Ambarto/Umbarto the youngest of Feanor's children, as he is in the leg=
end told here.

(...) The twins remained alike, but the elder grew darker i=
n hair, and was more dear to his father."/



To me it means Pityo/Amrod be=
came Ambarussa and survived, Telvo/Amras became Umbarto and died in Losgar.=
 Which is more logical that the one dear to mum wanted to go back, not the =
older one closer to father.



Why the names on the list hasn't been switch=
ed then? To keep original the narration untouched? It misleads, because we =
check the list not footnotes, a second fixed list would be a better idea, o=
r two options on the original one.



Information in twins bios at TolkienG=
ateway confirms it, but in comments to it I saw a different view regarding =
Sindarin names, either and now I am not sure anymore:



http://tolkiengate=
w ay.net/wiki/ Talk:Amrod



So maybe Amrod and Amras should be exchanged o=
n the lists, too? Or it is totally irrelevant for JRRT never finished it, s=
o the names do not match the linguistics?



I just checked "Seven in 07" p=
age and Character of the Month page, but no answer there. 



Regards,

Sir=
ielle




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      
--0-958511264-1251790830=:66178
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable





Hi!



&=
nbsp;



LOL I won=E2=80=99t comment on the =
names, I think. The professor
mixed up some things and put many loose ends =
which conflict with one another,
anyway, like where Orodreth is supposed to=
 be put in the family tree and who is
Ereinion=E2=80=99s father. (Hmm. But =
I am sidetracking here=E2=80=A6)



 



Ah, F=C3=ABanor was truly a genius, was he =
not? *roll eyes*
*grin* But the =E2=80=98pretty names=E2=80=99 were not onl=
y those, actually. Look at Maedhros=E2=80=99
father name: Nelyufinw=C3=AB, =
=E2=80=9CThird Finw=C3=AB.=E2=80=9D Thought one couldn=E2=80=99t count, eh?=
 *grin*
Perhaps that was why his brood mostly chose their mother names over=
 their
father ones, except for Curufin. Personally, I think you were right =
about the
=E2=80=9CLast Finw=C3=AB=E2=80=9D reasoning, and, to me, =E2=80=
=9CLittle Finw=C3=AB=E2=80=9D means just like that, one of
the youngest in =
the family; since =E2=80=9Clittle=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t only mean =E2=80=
=9Csmall=E2=80=9D in
physique in its usage in the language (or at least in =
English). So actually
both were quite similar in meaning=E2=80=A6 apt for a=
 pair of twins.



 



I=E2=80=99m sorry that I can=E2=80=99t help you with the cha=
nging of names
(and, subsequently, who is supposed to have died in Losgar).=
 I commend your
hard work in researching those baffling contradictions, tho=
ugh. But well, I
have tried to research about Ereinion=E2=80=99s geneology =
before, and since then I
vowed to myself never to try to match things that =
can never be paired over in
this universe of his. Even the proff=E2=80=99s =
son couldn=E2=80=99t do it!



 


All right. I am rambling=E2=80=A6 :sheepish: Wel=
l, sorry for that,
and sorry that I can=E2=80=99t be of much help.



 



- Rey
=





--- On Mon, 8/31/09, hathorsisle  wrote:

From: hathorsisle 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] How little Mr Litt=
le Finwe really was? And who burnt in Losgar?
To: SilmarillionWritersGui=
ld@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 9:03 AM






 

    <=
div id=3D"ygrp-text">
                  
Hi all!



Two things: fir=
st - name meaning vs height/built of the twins, second - who finally burnt =
in Losgar?



Pityafinw=C3=AB 



Feanor must have been gifted =
with fantastic imagination to make up such names like "Little Finwe" and "L=
ast Finwe". Those names could have no meaning at all, especially that no fu=
rther description is given like in the case of Turkafinwe for example. But =
all the other names had meaning, so do you think it means that both twins w=
ere shorter or more slender than the rest of siblings? If so were they aver=
age given Maedhros and Celegorm weren't (extra tall, extra strong)? Or does=
 it mean that Pityo was smaller than his twin brother?



Or Feanor w=
as too busy and just gave the simplest "first look" names to focus back on =
his job ASAP - the newborns were "little" as all the newborns are and "last=
", definitely, no more babies in the master plan.



Umbarto


=

The name tree in HoME gives us Pityafinwe/Amrod as Ambarto and Telufinwe/A=
mras as Ambarussa, which means Pityo was the one who died in burning. But a=
 commentary in HoME XII under the mother names on p.353 explains: 


=

"my father changed the name Ambarto to Umbarto in the list and reversed th=
e names of the twin brothers (see note 62), so that Ambarussa becomes the e=
lder of the two and Ambarto/Umbarto the youngest of Feanor's children, as h=
e is in the legend told here."



/Larger quotation:



"The st=
ory first emerged, I think, with the words 'The most authentic seems to be =
thus: The two twins were both red-haired. Nerdanel gave them both the name =
Ambarussa ...' It was then, no doubt, that my father changed the name Ambar=
to to Umbarto in the list and reversed the names of the twin brothers (see =
note 62), so that Ambarussa becomes the elder of the two and Ambarto/Umbart=
o the youngest of Feanor's children, as he is in the legend told here.

=
(...) The twins remained alike, but the elder grew darker in hair, and was =
more dear to his father."/



To me it means Pityo/Amrod became Ambar=
ussa and survived, Telvo/Amras became Umbarto and died in Losgar. Which is =
more logical that the one dear to mum wanted to go back, not the older one =
closer to father.



Why the names on the list hasn't been switched t=
hen? To keep original the narration untouched? It misleads, because we chec=
k the list not footnotes, a second fixed list would be a better idea, or tw=
o options on the original one.



Information in twins bios at Tolkie=
nGateway confirms it, but in comments to it I saw a different view regardin=
g Sindarin names, either and now I am not sure anymore:



http://tolkiengatew ay.net/wiki/ Talk:Amrod



So maybe Amrod=
 and Amras should be exchanged on the lists, too? Or it is totally irreleva=
nt for JRRT never finished it, so the names do not match the linguistics?


I just checked "Seven in 07" page and Character of the Month page, =
but no answer there. 



Regards,

Sirielle





 

    <=
/div>  


	 
	
	



      
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Hi, Tinni,

=C2=A0

I read your message last night, but I was not in th=
e right
state to compose any argument worth showing to any other audience t=
han myself.
LOL When I went back this morning, there were already many peop=
le giving their
opinions about it. I hope you would mind getting yet anothe=
r opinion on the
subjects =E2=80=93 which might be similar or even the same=
 with others?

=C2=A0

*"Oh yes, Finarfin was very brave to lick the boots =
of
the Valar=E2=80=94=E2=80=9C*

=C2=A0

The Valar was very, very upset. Pe=
rsonally, I might choose
to flee to Middle-Earth because of that, following=
 F=C3=ABanor and Fingolfin
(although, as I said, for a different reason alt=
ogether). They were not their
serene, alien but kind selves at that time, a=
nd anyone remaining must feel
disconcerted in the least living in the proxi=
mity of such powerful beings in
their enraged state=E2=80=A6 in their trues=
t forms (because remember, they could also
be dreadful in appearance, not o=
nly N=C3=A1mo, as stated in the Silmarillion). To
me, the Elves faced a dil=
emma when N=C3=A1mo pronounced the doom, and it was not
only about one subj=
ect.

Be
     called a coward by turning back but avoid the terrible doom, =
or continue
     on just to perish at last under the curse in the land they=
 had renounced
     while fighting a foe that was too powerful for anyone o=
f them.Turn
     back and pray that the Valar will not hold a grudge agains=
t them for
     rebelling in the first place, or go on and meet a totally-e=
vil Vala (plus
     his minions) whom the other Valar can=E2=80=99t even de=
feat before.Turn
     back and face the task of piecing back together their=
 broken lives and
     dreams, try to repay the mental and physical damages=
 their kindred have
     done to the Teleri=E2=80=A6 starting from scrap wh=
ile trying to rein in the chaos,
     in other words=E2=80=A6 or keep their=
 feet firmly on the road and face the
     horrible things hinted =E2=80=93=
 subtly or not so subtly =E2=80=93 in the doom, trudging
     on the path n=
o other Elves have trodden and most likely none will ever do,
     and poss=
ibly being homeless in Middle-Earth if not dead/slain already by
     their=
 own kindred/natural force/the natives/Morgoth=E2=80=99s minions.

Mm. So w=
ho would like to turn back? The chance is not
entirely pleasant. Finarfin w=
as not brainless to me, although people usually
put him as weak. I am sure =
he thought about all those possibilities before
making his decision=E2=80=
=A6 and by the way, living one=E2=80=99s family to fend for themselves
in: =
(1.) harsh land, (2.) harsher foes, (3.) an unknown type of welcome from
th=
e Sindar and Nandor, and (4.) the brutal, merciless doom of Mandos, can mak=
e
the heart of any parents break; it must not easy for them. And to think t=
he
possible harsh words E=C3=A4rwen and Finarfin exchanged with their child=
ren in their
parting=E2=80=A6 Turning back must require the same, or even m=
ore, amount of bravery
and willpower than simply going on, especially when =
there were (and there were,
indeed) more people going than turning back.

=
=C2=A0

*=E2=80=9C=E2=80=94and doom his remaining people to an eternity of
=
apologizing for others' actions.=E2=80=9D*

=C2=A0

It might not be easy to=
 be back in the good side of the
Teleri. Many of the Teleri were killed, an=
d their ships stolen just to be burnt
when not used as though some pieces o=
f crap, so it must be hard for them to
forgive the =C3=91oldor (after all, =
even after an age, they did not want to lend the
host of the Valar their sh=
ips in the War of Wrath, perhaps perceiving it as
aiding the exiled =C3=91o=
ldor). But if the few people under Finarfin had not
returned?... Would the =
Teleri even consent to ferry the host to Middle-Earth
and back? Perhaps not=
. And even after the War of Wrath, the exiled =C3=91oldor who
came back to =
Valinor would have viewed as a total disgrace=E2=80=A6 or perhaps not
permi=
tted at all to do so by their Vanyarin and Telerin kins, if Finarfin and
hi=
s people had not opted to stay and try to mend the large rift the rebellion=

had created. In a way, the remaining =C3=91oldor were preparing a home for=
 the exiled
ones to return to. Profuse apologies must be included along the=
 way, but it was
not an eternal thing, I think, and perhaps the people felt=
 too guilty to have
participated in the rebellion in the first place to eve=
r think this as a doom.
Perhaps they turned back with the thought of mendin=
g things back to as close a
situation to normal as possible, and they viewe=
d it as a task rather than a
doom they could not escape from, had not a say=
 in the matter (unlike their
exiled kin).

=C2=A0

*=E2=80=9CVery brave and=
 honorable to refuse to try and help the
members of his family who, though =
they had done evil, needed the most help.=E2=80=9D*

=C2=A0

They was no he=
lp to offer. What could be utilised to help?
And by the way the bulk of F=
=C3=ABanor=E2=80=99s and Fingolfin=E2=80=99s followers was enough to
face w=
hatever madness they were signing themselves up for. By the way, these
few =
people needed help too, because no one =E2=80=93 not the people who were la=
ter
exiled, and nor the Teleri whom they had much hurt albeit indirectly =
=E2=80=93 wanted
to help them, and their lives were ruined now. To me, Fina=
rfin=E2=80=99s people were
the ones needing the most help. (Well, I suppose=
 most skilled people went with
F=C3=ABanor too, so the task of getting back=
 to normal was made harder.)

=C2=A0

*=E2=80=9CDid it ever occur to you th=
at had Finarfin, Nerdanel, and
the rest of the Noldor overcome their self-r=
ighteousness and accompanied their
less restrained kin, the Second and Thir=
d Kinslayings might have been
prevented? Morgoth defeated at less cost?=E2=
=80=9D*

=C2=A0

Firstly, the second and third kinslayings were all to do
w=
ith the jewels, and actually the only ones directly involved with the
Silma=
rili were F=C3=ABanor and his sons, not even Nerdanel. I wonder why the per=
son
thought someone like Nerdanel and Finarfin could restrain them from app=
lying
any means to get their hands on the jewels. They had sworn an unbreak=
able oath;
N=C3=A1mo could not restrain them, nor Morgoth, nor morals and n=
orms=E2=80=A6 Well, as
someone has said earlier (sorry, I forget who), F=C3=
=ABanor no longer listened to
Nerdanel, and it had been some time before th=
e rebellion, or so I reckon, and
he had never liked his half siblings too, =
so how would he listen to their
advice? I suppose, even though those two we=
re to do any kind of extremes
thinkable, he and his sons would have forged =
on.

=C2=A0

Secondly, Morgoth was defeated at a less cost because of
Finar=
fin=E2=80=99s choice to stay in Valinor. He possibly coaxed his Teleri kin =
(kin by
marriage) to lend the host ships, and he was after all one of the l=
eaders in
the War of Wrath. If he had not stayed, how could the Valar broug=
ht war upon
Morgoth? Who would lead the Elves of Aman into war? I suppose F=
inarfin was
appointed to lead the Elves because the Elves were not entirely=
 comfortable
having a Maia leading them, and the Men and Elves in Middle-Ea=
rth had never
interacted with any Maia before (because people like Sauron w=
ere not to
interact with, and Melian stayed in Menegroth) to be comfortable=
 with any of
the Ainur either. In conclusion, it could be worse instead if =
Finarfin had not
stayed in the Undying Lands.

=C2=A0

*=E2=80=9CNo, for Fi=
narfin is the type to say "for I know I am
right" - the arrogance of those =
who feel they are on the side of Good.
Says it all."*

=C2=A0

Based on my =
earlier arguments, I totally disagree with this.
Besides, doing something r=
ight or for the greater or long-term good is usually
not something pleasant=
 at all, as someone has also mentioned before me (sorry,
I also forget who)=
.

=C2=A0

*=E2=80=9CFirstly, I am bit confused as to why I am being person=
ally
attacked because I never said I agreed with Finarfin. I was merely wri=
ting a
fanfic from his point of view and I thought that from his point of v=
iew, he
would have thought he was write. Incidentally, this has been happen=
ing to me a
lot in fandom recently where I get accused of holding a particu=
lar view just
because one of the character in my fic expressed such a few. =
Recently I was
accused of hating a character I absolutely adore because one=
 of the characters
in my fanfic really hates him. She's SUPPOSE to hate him=
! He's her enemy and
from her perspective was the cause of her best friends=
 death! If she isn't
suppose to hate him who is!=E2=80=9D*

=C2=A0

I think=
 you did the right thing (and a good job of it) about
the point of views. T=
hey in fact are supposed to be that way, as Dawn has
mentioned before (LOL =
I remember this time, yes, because I have just finished
reading her message=
; profuse apologies for the two others=E2=80=A6 I never mean to
neglect you=
). Someone is usually considered successful in impersonating a point
of vie=
w if the person can make the character alive, believable, and true to the
c=
anon (the last is sometimes preferable, actually), or so I observe from
rea=
ding the fan fics out there. The characters do not always represent the
aut=
hor=E2=80=99s views; some choose so=E2=80=A6 but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean =
all, right?

=C2=A0

*=E2=80=9CSecondly, and more importantly, I thought th=
e above
comment might serve as a nice stimulus for this group. What do you =
guys think?
Was Finarfin brave or a coward? Would the Noldor have been bett=
er off if
Finarfin had joined them or would it just mean more people would =
have died?
Discuss?=E2=80=9D*

=C2=A0

A good topic of discussion, at least=
 to me. Well, I have
answered the questions there earlier, though. Sorry if=
 this seems like I was
dissecting everything and attacking you. No. I was =
=E2=80=98attacking=E2=80=99 the flamer, in a
way. LOL (The flamer used some=
 wits, but it was a flame nonetheless to me.) I
apologise to everyone for t=
his lengthy message too. *blush* I was carried away.
Again, sorry, folks.

=
=C2=A0

- Rey



--- On Mon, 8/31/09, couldnotfindanameiliked  wrote:

From: couldnotfindanameiliked 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] On Finarfin
To: SilmarillionWri=
tersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 4:43 AM






=C2=
=A0




    
                  Hi folks,

Sorry for being absent. What can =
I say I haven't been in the right mind frame for the world of Tolkien. Anyw=
ay, today I got an interesting message but before I get to that let me make=
 it clear I am not ranting, angry or anything like that. I am a little conf=
used but that's about it.



So this is in relation to my fanfic "The measu=
re of bravery" (http://www.fanficti on.net/s/ 1363454/1/ The_measure_ of_br=
avery). The summary for which goes "Was Finarfin a coward for returning to =
Aman instead of following his brothers? He doesn't think so. Happy birthday=
 Starlight. Please review since good or bad I like hearing peoples comments=
.".



So this is what the message said, "Oh yes, Finarfin was very brave t=
o lick the boots of the Valar and doom his remaining people to an eternity =
of apologizing for others' actions.  Very brave and honorable to refuse to =
try and help the members of his family who, though they had done evil, need=
ed the most help.  Did it ever occur to you that had Finarfin, Nerdanel, an=
d the rest of the Noldor overcome their self-righteousness and accompanied =
their less restrained kin, the Second and Third Kinslayings might have been=
 prevented?  Morgoth defeated at less cost?  No, for Finarfin is the type t=
o say "for I know I am right" - the arrogance of those who feel they are on=
 the side of Good.  Says it all."



Firstly, I am bit confused as to why I=
 am being personally attacked because I never said I agreed with Finarfin. =
I was merely writing a fanfic from his point of view and I thought that fro=
m his point of view, he would have thought he was write. Incidentally, this=
 has been happening to me a lot in fandom recently where I get accused of h=
olding a particular view just because one of the character in my fic expres=
sed such a few. Recently I was accused of hating a character I absolutely a=
dore because one of the characters in my fanfic really hates him. She's SUP=
POSE to hate him! He's her enemy and from her perspective was the cause of =
her best friends death! If she isn't suppose to hate him who is! Sorry, sor=
ry, that's an aside.



Secondly, and more importantly, I thought the above=
 comment might serve as a nice stimulus for this group. What do you guys th=
ink? Was Finarfin brave or a coward? Would the Noldor have been better off =
if Finarfin had joined them or would it just mean more people would have di=
ed? Discuss?



-Tinni




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


=
      
--0-1322573437-1251816236=:37976
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable





Hi, Tinni,



 



I read your message last night, but I was not in the ri=
ght
state to compose any argument worth showing to any other audience than =
myself.
LOL When I went back this morning, there were already many people g=
iving their
opinions about it. I hope you would mind getting yet another op=
inion on the
subjects =E2=80=93 which might be similar or even the same wit=
h others?



 



*"Oh yes, Finarfin was very brave to lick the boots of
the Valar=
=E2=80=94=E2=80=9C*



 



The Valar was very, very upset. Personally, I might choo=
se
to flee to Middle-Earth because of that, following F=C3=ABanor and Fingo=
lfin
(although, as I said, for a different reason altogether). They were no=
t their
serene, alien but kind selves at that time, and anyone remaining mu=
st feel
disconcerted in the least living in the proximity of such powerful =
beings in
their enraged state=E2=80=A6 in their truest forms (because remem=
ber, they could also
be dreadful in appearance, not only N=C3=A1mo, as stat=
ed in the Silmarillion). To
me, the Elves faced a dilemma when N=C3=A1mo pr=
onounced the doom, and it was not
only about one subject.



  1. Be
     called a coward by turning back but avoid the terrible doom, or c=
ontinue
     on just to perish at last under the curse in the land they had=
 renounced
     while fighting a foe that was too powerful for anyone of th=
em.
  2. Turn
     back and pray that the=
 Valar will not hold a grudge against them for
     rebelling in the first =
place, or go on and meet a totally-evil Vala (plus
     his minions) whom t=
he other Valar can=E2=80=99t even defeat before.
  3. Turn
     back and face the task of piecing back together thei=
r broken lives and
     dreams, try to repay the mental and physical damage=
s their kindred have
     done to the Teleri=E2=80=A6 starting from scrap w=
hile trying to rein in the chaos,
     in other words=E2=80=A6 or keep thei=
r feet firmly on the road and face the
     horrible things hinted =E2=80=
=93 subtly or not so subtly =E2=80=93 in the doom, trudging
     on the pat=
h no other Elves have trodden and most likely none will ever do,
     and p=
ossibly being homeless in Middle-Earth if not dead/slain already by
     th=
eir own kindred/natural force/the natives/Morgoth=E2=80=99s minions.
    4. 


    Mm. So who would like to turn back? The chance =
is not
entirely pleasant. Finarfin was not brainless to me, although people=
 usually
put him as weak. I am sure he thought about all those possibilitie=
s before
making his decision=E2=80=A6 and by the way, living one=E2=80=99s =
family to fend for themselves
in: (1.) harsh land, (2.) harsher foes, (3.) =
an unknown type of welcome from
the Sindar and Nandor, and (4.) the brutal,=
 merciless doom of Mandos, can make
the heart of any parents break; it must=
 not easy for them. And to think the
possible harsh words E=C3=A4rwen and F=
inarfin exchanged with their children in their
parting=E2=80=A6 Turning bac=
k must require the same, or even more, amount of bravery
and willpower than=
 simply going on, especially when there were (and there were,
indeed) more =
people going than turning back.
    


     
    


    *=E2=80=9C=E2=80=94and doom his remaining pe=
ople to an eternity of
apologizing for others' actions.=E2=80=9D*
    


     
    


    It might n=
ot be easy to be back in the good side of the
Teleri. Many of the Teleri we=
re killed, and their ships stolen just to be burnt
when not used as though =
some pieces of crap, so it must be hard for them to
forgive the =C3=91oldor=
 (after all, even after an age, they did not want to lend the
host of the V=
alar their ships in the War of Wrath, perhaps perceiving it as
aiding the e=
xiled =C3=91oldor). But if the few people under Finarfin had not
returned?.=
.. Would the Teleri even consent to ferry the host to Middle-Earth
and back=
? Perhaps not. And even after the War of Wrath, the exiled =C3=91oldor who
=
came back to Valinor would have viewed as a total disgrace=E2=80=A6 or perh=
aps not
permitted at all to do so by their Vanyarin and Telerin kins, if Fi=
narfin and
his people had not opted to stay and try to mend the large rift =
the rebellion
had created. In a way, the remaining =C3=91oldor were prepari=
ng a home for the exiled
ones to return to. Profuse apologies must be inclu=
ded along the way, but it was
not an eternal thing, I think, and perhaps th=
e people felt too guilty to have
participated in the rebellion in the first=
 place to ever think this as a doom.
Perhaps they turned back with the thou=
ght of mending things back to as close a
situation to normal as possible, a=
nd they viewed it as a task rather than a
doom they could not escape from, =
had not a say in the matter (unlike their
exiled kin).
    


     
    


    *=E2=80=9CVery brave =
and honorable to refuse to try and help the
members of his family who, thou=
gh they had done evil, needed the most help.=E2=80=9D*
    


     
    


    They was no help to o=
ffer. What could be utilised to help?
And by the way the bulk of F=C3=ABano=
r=E2=80=99s and Fingolfin=E2=80=99s followers was enough to
face whatever m=
adness they were signing themselves up for. By the way, these
few people ne=
eded help too, because no one =E2=80=93 not the people who were later
exile=
d, and nor the Teleri whom they had much hurt albeit indirectly =E2=80=93 w=
anted
to help them, and their lives were ruined now. To me, Finarfin=E2=80=
=99s people were
the ones needing the most help. (Well, I suppose most skil=
led people went with
F=C3=ABanor too, so the task of getting back to normal=
 was made harder.)
    


     
    


    *=E2=80=9CDid it ever occur to you that had Finarfin, Ner=
danel, and
the rest of the Noldor overcome their self-righteousness and acc=
ompanied their
less restrained kin, the Second and Third Kinslayings might =
have been
prevented? Morgoth defeated at less cost?=E2=80=9D*
    


     
    


    Firstly, the s=
econd and third kinslayings were all to do
with the jewels, and actually th=
e only ones directly involved with the
Silmarili were F=C3=ABanor and his s=
ons, not even Nerdanel. I wonder why the person
thought someone like Nerdan=
el and Finarfin could restrain them from applying
any means to get their ha=
nds on the jewels. They had sworn an unbreakable oath;
N=C3=A1mo could not =
restrain them, nor Morgoth, nor morals and norms=E2=80=A6 Well, as
someone =
has said earlier (sorry, I forget who), F=C3=ABanor no longer listened to
N=
erdanel, and it had been some time before the rebellion, or so I reckon, an=
d
he had never liked his half siblings too, so how would he listen to their=

advice? I suppose, even though those two were to do any kind of extremes
t=
hinkable, he and his sons would have forged on.
    


     
    


    Secondly, Morgoth was defeat=
ed at a less cost because of
Finarfin=E2=80=99s choice to stay in Valinor. =
He possibly coaxed his Teleri kin (kin by
marriage) to lend the host ships,=
 and he was after all one of the leaders in
the War of Wrath. If he had not=
 stayed, how could the Valar brought war upon
Morgoth? Who would lead the E=
lves of Aman into war? I suppose Finarfin was
appointed to lead the Elves b=
ecause the Elves were not entirely comfortable
having a Maia leading them, =
and the Men and Elves in Middle-Earth had never
interacted with any Maia be=
fore (because people like Sauron were not to
interact with, and Melian stay=
ed in Menegroth) to be comfortable with any of
the Ainur either. In conclus=
ion, it could be worse instead if Finarfin had not
stayed in the Undying La=
nds.
    


     
    


    *=E2=80=9CNo, for Finarfin is the type to say "for I know I am
right" -=
 the arrogance of those who feel they are on the side of Good.
Says it all.=
"*
    


     
    


    Based on my earlier arguments, I totally disagree with this.
Besides, doi=
ng something right or for the greater or long-term good is usually
not some=
thing pleasant at all, as someone has also mentioned before me (sorry,
I al=
so forget who).
    


     
    


    *=E2=80=9CFirstly, I am bit confused as to why I am being pe=
rsonally
attacked because I never said I agreed with Finarfin. I was merely=
 writing a
fanfic from his point of view and I thought that from his point =
of view, he
would have thought he was write. Incidentally, this has been ha=
ppening to me a
lot in fandom recently where I get accused of holding a par=
ticular view just
because one of the character in my fic expressed such a f=
ew. Recently I was
accused of hating a character I absolutely adore because=
 one of the characters
in my fanfic really hates him. She's SUPPOSE to hate=
 him! He's her enemy and
from her perspective was the cause of her best fri=
ends death! If she isn't
suppose to hate him who is!=E2=80=9D*
    


     
    


    I think you d=
id the right thing (and a good job of it) about
the point of views. They in=
 fact are supposed to be that way, as Dawn has
mentioned before (LOL I reme=
mber this time, yes, because I have just finished
reading her message; prof=
use apologies for the two others=E2=80=A6 I never mean to
neglect you). Som=
eone is usually considered successful in impersonating a point
of view if t=
he person can make the character alive, believable, and true to the
canon (=
the last is sometimes preferable, actually), or so I observe from
reading t=
he fan fics out there. The characters do not always represent the
author=E2=
=80=99s views; some choose so=E2=80=A6 but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean all, r=
ight?
    


     
    


    *=E2=80=9CSecondly, and more importantly, I thought the above
comment =
might serve as a nice stimulus for this group. What do you guys think?
Was =
Finarfin brave or a coward? Would the Noldor have been better off if
Finarf=
in had joined them or would it just mean more people would have died?
Discu=
ss?=E2=80=9D*
    


     
    


    A good topic of discussion, at least to me. Well, I have
ans=
wered the questions there earlier, though. Sorry if this seems like I was
d=
issecting everything and attacking you. No. I was =E2=80=98attacking=E2=80=
=99 the flamer, in a
way. LOL (The flamer used some wits, but it was a flam=
e nonetheless to me.) I
apologise to everyone for this lengthy message too.=
 *blush* I was carried away.
Again, sorry, folks.
    


     
    


    - Rey
    



    --- On =
Mon, 8/31/09, couldnotfindanameiliked  wrote:

    From: couldnotfindanamei=
liked 
    Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGu=
ild] On Finarfin
    To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
    Date: M=
onday, August 31, 2009, 4:43 AM

    




 

    
    
        =
          
    Hi folks,
    
Sorry for being absent. What can I say I haven't=
 been in the right mind frame for the world of Tolkien. Anyway, today I got=
 an interesting message but before I get to that let me make it clear I am =
not ranting, angry or anything like that. I am a little confused but that's=
 about it.
    

    
So this is in relation to my fanfic "The measure of bra=
very" (http://www.fanficti on.net/s/ 13634=
54/1/ The_measure_ of_bravery). The summary for which goes "Was Finarfi=
n a coward for returning to Aman instead of following his brothers? He does=
n't think so. Happy birthday Starlight. Please review since good or bad I l=
ike hearing peoples comments.".
    

    
So this is what the message said, =
"Oh yes, Finarfin was very brave to lick the boots of the Valar and doom hi=
s remaining people to an eternity of apologizing for others' actions.  Very=
 brave and honorable to refuse to try and help the members of his family wh=
o, though they had done evil, needed the most help.  Did it ever occur to y=
ou that had Finarfin, Nerdanel, and the rest of the Noldor overcome their s=
elf-righteousness and accompanied their less restrained kin, the Second and=
 Third Kinslayings might have been prevented?  Morgoth defeated at less cos=
t?  No, for Finarfin is the type to say "for I know I am right" - the arrog=
ance of those who feel they are on the side of Good.  Says it all."
    

Firstly, I am bit confused as to why I am being personally attacked becau=
se I never said I agreed with Finarfin. I was merely writing a fanfic from =
his point of view and I thought that from his point of view, he would have =
thought he was write. Incidentally, this has been happening to me a lot in =
fandom recently where I get accused of holding a particular view just becau=
se one of the character in my fic expressed such a few. Recently I was accu=
sed of hating a character I absolutely adore because one of the characters =
in my fanfic really hates him. She's SUPPOSE to hate him! He's her enemy an=
d from her perspective was the cause of her best friends death! If she isn'=
t suppose to hate him who is! Sorry, sorry, that's an aside.
    

    
Secon=
dly, and more importantly, I thought the above comment might serve as a nic=
e stimulus for this group. What do you guys think? Was Finarfin brave or a =
coward? Would the Noldor have been better off if Finarfin had joined them o=
r would it just mean more people would have died? Discuss?
    

    
-Tinni<=
br>

    

    
 

    
      


	 
	
	
=





      
--0-1322573437-1251816236=:37976--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] On Finarfin
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=kTQEwfvHCONPhM0x7z6VAspK_j6bpaopOFmU6c_7S2q-g_mvzA6j
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On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Marta  wrote:
Hi, Marta,

> I also forgot to mention one of your other stories, whose title I'm
> forgetting at the moment. It has something like "small hands" or
> "smallest hands" in it, and is essentially the story of Earwen and the
> Noldor who remain in Valinor, between the destruction of the Two Trees
> and Finarfin's ascent to the crown of the Noldor.

Thank you for the kind words about my story; the title is "The Work of Small
Hands," and it is up on the archive here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=303&index=1

(Please note that it is adult-rated, mostly for thematic content; the link
above will take readers to the table of contents where they may better
decide if the story is something they wish to read. :)

It's kind of funny that you mentioned this story, though, because my
depiction of Finarfin in it is one with which I no longer agree. :) This was
one of the first Silmfics that I started (for the SWG's very first official
challenge, "Strong Women"), but it took years to complete, and I wasn't up
to the level of revision needed to bring Finarfin's character more in line
with how I'd come to see him. However, I do still think that the story
offers at least one way of looking at how the Darkening of Valinor might
have affected life there, and what Finarfin would have contended with upon
his return.

> Dawn, you said that with your temperament you might have been charging
> right after Feanor. It's interesting how that works, because I would
> have been mightily inclined to stay in Valinor.

I say that mostly because I have a wee problem with authority ... or I
should say being told what to do and think by people who assume they are
above or know more than I do but haven't actually established that fact. So
I think I would have long come to resent the Valar and to have seen
Morgoth's actions as stemming from their tendency to see themselves as
"wiser" than the Elves without actually having done much to prove that
assumption. I think that's why I've always empathized so much with Feanor.
:)

However, I'm also a pacifist, so I can't say how the kinslaying would have
perhaps tempered that first desire. That's how I've always seen Finarfin's
decision to return, in fact; while I can't say that it's "canon," I believe
that his unwillingness to continue along with his brothers was because a
cause in which he could believe had taken on a different, darker meaning for
him after the kinslaying at Alqualonde. And that's why I've always
empathized with Finarfin. :)

> (My understanding of philosophy - and I may be
> wrong here - is that the virtue courage has to do with a strength of
> will rather than the end trying to be accomplished actually being good.)

I'd agree with that. I think that sometimes people mistakenly conflate
"courage" and "rebellion."

Furthermore, we know absolutely nothing about Finarfin's actions after his
return to Valinor aside from the fact that he was pardoned by the Valar (but
not whether he sought it or how difficult it was to obtain or what he had to
do to obtain it) and that he eventually walked with Finrod after Finrod's
return and fought in the War of Wrath. To the best of my knowledge, the
notion that Finarfin returned to live a quiet and obedient existence is
fanon; as of this evening, "Fanon Inverted" will no longer be the current
challenge on the archive, but since challenges are good forever, a story I
think would be very interesting would be to look at how Finarfin might have
returned to Valinor with a less than complacent attitude toward the Valar
and how, through peaceful means, did indeed improve his people's homeland.
(Maybe even influenced the decision to finally take on Melkor at the end of
the First Age? I'm getting ahead of myself here ... ;)

Dawn


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--000e0cdff9bc567f5a047285e1b0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Marta <marta.fandom@gmail.com> wr=
ote:


Hi, Marta,


=C2=A0


> I also for=
got to mention one of your other stories, whose title I'm 
> forg=
etting at the moment. It has something like "small hands" or 
=
> "smallest hands" in it, and is essentially the story of Earw=
en and the 

> Noldor who remain in Valinor, between the destruction =
of the Two Trees 
> and Finarfin's ascent to the crown of the Nol=
dor.


=C2=A0


Thank you for the kind words about my sto=
ry; the title is "The Work of Small Hands," and it is up on the a=
rchive here:


=C2=A0



=C2=A0


(Please note that it is adult-r=
ated, mostly for thematic content; the link above will take readers to the =
table of contents where they may better decide if the story is something th=
ey wish to read. :)


=C2=A0


It's kind of funny tha=
t you mentioned this story, though, because my depiction of Finarfin in it =
is one with which I no longer agree. :) This was one of the first Silmfics =
that I started (for the SWG's very first official challenge, "Stro=
ng Women"), but it took years to complete, and I wasn't up to the =
level of revision needed to bring Finarfin's character more in line wit=
h how I'd come to see him. However, I do still think that the story off=
ers at least one way of looking at how the Darkening of Valinor might have =
affected life there, and what Finarfin would have contended with upon his r=
eturn.



=C2=A0


> Dawn, you said that with your tem=
perament you might have been charging 
> right after Feanor. It's=
 interesting how that works, because I would 
> have been mightily in=
clined to stay in Valinor.



=C2=A0


I say that mostly =
because I have a wee problem with authority ... or I should say being told =
what to do and think by people who assume they are above or know more than =
I do but haven't actually established that fact. So I think I would hav=
e long come to resent the Valar and to have seen Morgoth's actions as s=
temming from their tendency to see themselves as "wiser" than the=
 Elves without actually having done much to prove that assumption. I think =
that's why I've always empathized so much with Feanor. :)


=C2=A0


However, I'm also a pacifist, so I can't say h=
ow the kinslaying would have perhaps tempered that first desire. That's=
 how I've always seen Finarfin's decision to return, in fact; while=
 I can't say that it's "canon," I believe that his unwill=
ingness to continue along with his brothers was because a cause in which he=
 could believe had taken on a different, darker meaning for him after the k=
inslaying at Alqualonde. And that's why I've always empathized with=
 Finarfin. :)



=C2=A0


> (My understanding of philo=
sophy - and I may be 
> wrong here - is that the virtue courage has t=
o do with a strength of 
> will rather than the end trying to be acco=
mplished actually being good.)



=C2=A0


I'd agree =
with that. I think that sometimes people mistakenly conflate "courage&=
quot; and "rebellion."


=C2=A0


Furthermore, =
we know absolutely nothing about Finarfin's actions after his return to=
 Valinor aside from the fact that he was pardoned by the Valar (but not whe=
ther he sought it or how difficult it was to obtain or what he had to do to=
 obtain it) and that he eventually walked with Finrod after Finrod's re=
turn and fought in the War of Wrath. To the best of my knowledge, the notio=
n that Finarfin returned to live a quiet and obedient existence is fanon; a=
s of this evening, "Fanon Inverted" will no longer be the current=
 challenge on the archive, but since challenges are good forever, a story I=
 think would be very interesting would be to look at how Finarfin might hav=
e returned to Valinor with a less than complacent attitude toward the Valar=
 and how, through peaceful means, did indeed improve his people's homel=
and. (Maybe even influenced the decision to finally take on Melkor at the e=
nd of the First Age? I'm getting ahead of myself here ... ;)


=C2=A0


Dawn




-- 
~oOo=
~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org<=
br>

--000e0cdff9bc567f5a047285e1b0--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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Subject: Re: On Finarfin
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X-Yahoo-Profile: couldnotfindanameiliked

Thank you for your long and thoughtful reply. I do believe that you are abs=
olutely right and Finarfin through things through very carefully before he =
made his decision. Let's also not forget that he was married to a Teleri to=
o! Imagine him having to face is wife and in-laws. I am sure many people wo=
uld have run away just to avoid that kind of an emotionally draining battle=
.



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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Thirty-Three
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"In that time those of the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans who were saved from destru=
ction fled
eastward, as is told in the Akallab=C3=AAth. The chief of these =
were Elendil the
Tall and his sons, Isildur and An=C3=A1rion. Kinsmen of th=
e King they were,
descendants of Elros, but they had been unwilling to list=
en to Sauron, and
had refused to make war on the Lords of the West. Manning=
 their ships with
all who remained faithful they forsook the land of N=C3=
=BAmenor ere ruin came
upon it. They were mighty men and their ships were s=
trong and tall, but the
tempests overtook them, and they were borne aloft o=
n hills of water even to
the clouds, and they descended upon Middle-earth l=
ike birds of the storm."

"The Hidden Lady" by Rhapsody
http://www.silmaril=
lionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/33-1.php

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund=

http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters=
guild.org

--0016e6d99e6e148b0904728dfc84
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"In that time those of the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans who were saved from d=
estruction fled eastward, as is told in the Akallab=C3=AAth. The chief of t=
hese were Elendil the Tall and his sons, Isildur and An=C3=A1rion. Kinsmen =
of the King they were, descendants of Elros, but they had been unwilling to=
 listen to Sauron, and had refused to make war on the Lords of the West. Ma=
nning their ships with all who remained faithful they forsook the land of N=
=C3=BAmenor ere ruin came upon it. They were mighty men and their ships wer=
e strong and tall, but the tempests overtook them, and they were borne alof=
t on hills of water even to the clouds, and they descended upon Middle-eart=
h like birds of the storm."


"The Hidden Lady" by Rha=
psody
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-augus=
t/33-1.php

-- 

~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/=
heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



--0016e6d99e6e148b0904728dfc84--


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From: "ellfine2000" 
Subject: Re: On Finarfin
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=lyJwy4ybNHNNWDBfqO4kRRMim013wYjVs7ViEdRtI3W0mcNt6p4
X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000

Finarfin is my favorite of the three sons of Finwe and he was no coward. Ri=
ght now I am too sick to expound upon anything or to rehash what others hav=
e said. As a Finarfinatic, I have, in some of my stories, tackeled some of =
the scenerios/situations folks have mentioned that Finarfin had to face. 

=
For Finarfin facing the Teleri after the kinslaying and why he turned back,=
 see "By Choice or By Blood"
 http://storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?=
SID=3D6199

For contemplations on the night before a coronation for which h=
e was unprepared, see "Shadow-folk"
http://storiesofarda.com/chapterlistvie=
w.asp?SID=3D4494

For reparations made to the Teleri, see the humorous "Mak=
ing Reparations"
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3541853/1/Making_Reparations

=

For what he had to face in telling those of Aman about the horrors which b=
efell their kin in Middle-earth, see "The Parting Glass"
http://storiesofar=
da.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D6275

 and "The Two Messengers"
http://sto=
riesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=3D4106

Regards,
Ellie

>
> Thank yo=
u for your long and thoughtful reply. I do believe that you are absolutely =
right and Finarfin through things through very carefully before he made his=
 decision. Let's also not forget that he was married to a Teleri too! Imagi=
ne him having to face is wife and in-laws. I am sure many people would have=
 run away just to avoid that kind of an emotionally draining battle.
>




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From: "silmdevil" 
Subject: Re: On Finarfin
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X-Yahoo-Profile: silmdevil

Hello,

Right, I don't write fanfiction (at least not in any decent fandom)=
. But I read a lot and lurk about on SWG. So here's my tuppence on this.

F=
inarfin - the best and convincing portrayals of the character and his choic=
es were done by two of my favorite writers.

(1)Another Man's Cage http://w=
ww.henneth-annun.net/Stories/chapter.cfm?stid=3D5420

This is by Dawn Felag=
und and has one of the most believable takes on Finarfin. I direct you to C=
hapter 31 which gives you better look at this maligned guy. I recommend the=
 whole novel, it is a wonderful saga. http://www.henneth-annun.net/Stories/=
chapter_view.cfm?stid=3D5420&SPOrdinal=3D31

(2)The Journals - The Song of =
Sunset series http://j-dav.livejournal.com/70216.html or http://www.silmari=
llionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewseries.php?seriesid=3D15

This is by=
 jdav or jde. She has an unconventional take on most canon guys and this se=
ries shows the descendants of Finwe in a very different light. The Finarfin=
 stories in the set are Akin to Love, The Shadow of light and The Pilgrimag=
e. They're all out there on SWG. Read the warnings, the gal loves to angst.=


Flames - they're gonna happen on ff.net. It's the cradle of wannable flam=
ers;) Just don't take that to heart. 
 
Cheerio!



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To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "silmdevil" 
Subject: Re: On Finarfin
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You beat me to Another Man's Cage recommendation. I thought the same of Fin=
arfin too, that he was lacking guts. He wouldn't have lasted 20 minutes in =
Bronx. 

" Just finished writing a story, where I did everything I could to=
 make Finarfin sympathetic and still most readers didn't much like my posit=
ive version of him."

That's bad. I guess it's coz he's not as flashy as hi=
s brothers. Did you slash him? Finarfin slash won't have the same appeal as=
 Feanor or Fingolfin slash. 

Kinslaying and Finarfin - I don't know if I r=
emember correctly. But jdav's Finarfin was a kinslayer. She loves giving he=
r elves blades to kill people with. I think her Galadriel was a kinslayer t=
oo. Something went like Finarfin was about to be killed by Olwe and Galadri=
el rushed to her father's side and killed her grandpa? Jdav has a complicat=
ed tangle there.



--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, hearto=
foshun@... wrote:
>
> 
> Offline at the moment (no in-house itnernet) so th=
is is a drive-by comment on the discussion. I tend to think that Finarfin w=
as a bit of a coward and a wimp for not going to M-e, but am totally aware =
this was not Tolkien's intent. On the other hand, just to give a bit of per=
spective from where I am coming from, I am someone who thought Gondolin was=
 a cop-out also. But then, it's all moot anyway, isn't it, ?since it whole =
situation was rigged by a curse--i.e., that the Noldor were doomed no matte=
r what their strategy or choices had been. Oh, well. Just finished writing =
a story, where I did everything I could to make Finarfin sympathetic and st=
ill most readers didn't much like my positive version of him. I think Dawn =
Felagund writes the best and most likeable version of Finarfin I have read =
to date in her novel, Another Man's Cage, and her other stories which fit i=
n that same story universe. 
> 
> 




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From: Silver Trails 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: On Finarfin
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As much as I remember Fingo rushed to battle when he saw/believed the Teler=
i were attacking the Feanorians and Fingolfin rushed after him. I guess Tur=
gon and Arakano also rushed in. Aredhel... I have no idea if she would batt=
le. Galadriel, there are many versions of her story, and in some of them sh=
e defends her people. 
=A0
I have to read that part again. I believe Finrod=
 didn't participate, as he was freed from the Halls very quickly. 
=A0
CC

=
--- On Wed, 9/2/09, silmdevil  wrote:


From: silmdevi=
l 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: On Finarfin=

To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 2,=
 2009, 4:50 PM


=A0 



You beat me to Another Man's Cage recommendation. =
I thought the same of Finarfin too, that he was lacking guts. He wouldn't h=
ave lasted 20 minutes in Bronx. 

" Just finished writing a story, where I =
did everything I could to make Finarfin sympathetic and still most readers =
didn't much like my positive version of him."

That's bad. I guess it's coz=
 he's not as flashy as his brothers. Did you slash him? Finarfin slash won'=
t have the same appeal as Feanor or Fingolfin slash. 

Kinslaying and Finar=
fin - I don't know if I remember correctly. But jdav's Finarfin was a kinsl=
ayer. She loves giving her elves blades to kill people with. I think her Ga=
ladriel was a kinslayer too. Something went like Finarfin was about to be k=
illed by Olwe and Galadriel rushed to her father's side and killed her gran=
dpa? Jdav has a complicated tangle there.

--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild=
@yahoogroup s.com, heartofoshun@ ... wrote:
>
> 
> Offline at the moment (n=
o in-house itnernet) so this is a drive-by comment on the discussion. I ten=
d to think that Finarfin was a bit of a coward and a wimp for not going to =
M-e, but am totally aware this was not Tolkien's intent. On the other hand,=
 just to give a bit of perspective from where I am coming from, I am someon=
e who thought Gondolin was a cop-out also. But then, it's all moot anyway, =
isn't it, ?since it whole situation was rigged by a curse--i.e., that the N=
oldor were doomed no matter what their strategy or choices had been. Oh, we=
ll. Just finished writing a story, where I did everything I could to make F=
inarfin sympathetic and still most readers didn't much like my positive ver=
sion of him. I think Dawn Felagund writes the best and most likeable versio=
n of Finarfin I have read to date in her novel, Another Man's Cage, and her=
 other stories which fit in that same story universe. 
> 
> 














=



      
--0-1855274430-1251910763=:1824
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


As much as I remember Fingo rushed to ba=
ttle when he saw/believed the Teleri were attacking the Feanorians and Fing=
olfin rushed after him. I guess Turgon and Arakano also rushed in. Aredhel.=
.. I have no idea if she would battle. Galadriel, there are many versions o=
f her story, and in some of them she defends her people. 


 =



I have to read that part again. I believe Finrod didn't partici=
pate, as he was freed from the Halls very quickly. 


 
=


CC

--- On Wed, 9/2/09, silmdevil  wrote:



From: silmdevil <=
;silmdevils@yahoo.in>
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: On Fina=
rfin
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, Se=
ptember 2, 2009, 4:50 PM



  



You beat me to Another M=
an's Cage recommendation. I thought the same of Finarfin too, that he was l=
acking guts. He wouldn't have lasted 20 minutes in Bronx. 

" Just fi=
nished writing a story, where I did everything I could to make Finarfin sym=
pathetic and still most readers didn't much like my positive version of him=
."

That's bad. I guess it's coz he's not as flashy as his brothers. =
Did you slash him? Finarfin slash won't have the same appeal as Feanor or F=
ingolfin slash. 

Kinslaying and Finarfin - I don't know if I remembe=
r correctly. But jdav's Finarfin was a kinslayer. She loves giving her elve=
s blades to kill people with. I think her Galadriel was a kinslayer too. So=
mething went like Finarfin was about to be killed by Olwe and Galadriel rus=
hed to her father's side and killed her grandpa? Jdav has a complicated tan=
gle there.

--- In Silm=
arillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, heartofoshun@ ... wrote:
>=
;
> 
> Offline at the moment (no in-house itnernet) so this is =
a drive-by comment on the discussion. I tend to think that Finarfin was a b=
it of a coward and a wimp for not going to M-e, but am totally aware this w=
as not Tolkien's intent. On the other hand, just to give a bit of perspecti=
ve from where I am coming from, I am someone who thought Gondolin was a cop=
-out also. But then, it's all moot anyway, isn't it, ?since it whole situat=
ion was rigged by a curse--i.e., that the Noldor were doomed no matter what=
 their strategy or choices had been. Oh, well. Just finished writing a stor=
y, where I did everything I could to make Finarfin sympathetic and still mo=
st readers didn't much like my
 positive version of him. I think Dawn Felag=
und writes the best and most likeable version of Finarfin I have read to da=
te in her novel, Another Man's Cage, and her other stories which fit in tha=
t same story universe. 
> 
> 






      
--0-1855274430-1251910763=:1824--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "hathorsisle" 
Subject: Re: On Finarfin
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213662721; y=W_t4rNeCra5w0u__FTISQV87Fy7seKVMGHnuAin0UrezmGBR0Oc
X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle

Hmmm,

ST> I have to read that part again. I believe Finrod didn't
ST> part=
icipate, as he was freed from the Halls very quickly.

are you talking now =
of the original text by JRRT or recommended fan
fiction? I understood what =
has been told about Jdav fics below was
about fan fiction, not original tex=
ts.

Apart Feanorians only Fingon bears blood on his hand in original texts=
. We've been
discussing here possibilities for Turgon for joining in, but i=
f I
remember correctly all has been abandoned. There are no evidence pro
no=
r against, but there is only mention about Fingon which simply
excludes all=
 other Finglofinians and people of Finarfin walking in the
end are beyond a=
 discussion. Fan fiction is a different thing, here
anything could happen. =
I'm curious now what Jdav did with characters,
but can't read stories now :=
(


Suilad,
 Sirielle                          

http://www.sirielle.com


=
 
ST> =A0
 
ST> CC

ST> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, silmdevil =
 wrote:
 

ST> From: silmdevil 
ST> Subject: [Silmaril=
lionWritersGuild] Re: On Finarfin
ST> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogro=
ups.com
ST> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 4:50 PM

 
ST> =A0  
 
ST> =
You beat me to Another Man's Cage recommendation. I thought
ST> the same of=
 Finarfin too, that he was lacking guts. He wouldn't
ST> have lasted 20 min=
utes in Bronx. 

ST> " Just finished writing a story, where I did everythin=
g I
ST> could to make Finarfin sympathetic and still most readers didn't
ST=
> much like my positive version of him."

ST> That's bad. I guess it's coz =
he's not as flashy as his
ST> brothers. Did you slash him? Finarfin slash w=
on't have the same
ST> appeal as Feanor or Fingolfin slash. 

ST> Kinslayin=
g and Finarfin - I don't know if I remember
ST> correctly. But jdav's Finar=
fin was a kinslayer. She loves giving
ST> her elves blades to kill people w=
ith. I think her Galadriel was a
ST> kinslayer too. Something went like Fin=
arfin was about to be killed
ST> by Olwe and Galadriel rushed to her father=
's side and killed her
ST> grandpa? Jdav has a complicated tangle there.   =
     



From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1461225023-1251914979=:95225"
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0
From: Silver Trails 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: On Finarfin
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=6D7_LEbR7bKkFw-hOv9TrW7IXYhjPeXScxMhMlN9AcPf-4sqvOwhSw
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I am talking about Tolkien's text, of course. We all have different version=
s of the characters, but I was always speaking about the books, and of cour=
se, our interpretation of them. 
=A0
I don't know why I thought Fingolfin a=
lso rushed in, but I must have assumed it. (smile)
=A0
I write Sim fics too=
, but I haven't written about those moments. I do have a fic written from=
=A0 Finarfin's POV, pre silmarils, here:
=A0
http://tati24.livejournal.com/=
80420.html
=A0
My other Silm Fics, if you wish to check when you have time:=

=A0
http://tati24.livejournal.com/56199.html
=A0
CC

--- On Wed, 9/2/09, h=
athorsisle  wrote:


From: hathorsisle =

Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: On Finarfin
To: SilmarillionWriter=
sGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:25 PM


=A0 

=


Hmmm,

ST> I have to read that part again. I believe Finrod didn't
ST> pa=
rticipate, as he was freed from the Halls very quickly.

are you talking no=
w of the original text by JRRT or recommended fan
fiction? I understood wha=
t has been told about Jdav fics below was
about fan fiction, not original t=
exts.

Apart Feanorians only Fingon bears blood on his hand in original tex=
ts. We've been
discussing here possibilities for Turgon for joining in, but=
 if I
remember correctly all has been abandoned. There are no evidence pro
=
nor against, but there is only mention about Fingon which simply
excludes a=
ll other Finglofinians and people of Finarfin walking in the
end are beyond=
 a discussion. Fan fiction is a different thing, here
anything could happen=
. I'm curious now what Jdav did with characters,
but can't read stories now=
 :(

Suilad,
Sirielle 

http://www.sirielle .com

ST> =A0

ST> CC

ST> --- =
On Wed, 9/2/09, silmdevil  wrote:


ST> From: silmdev=
il 
ST> Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Re: On F=
inarfin
ST> To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com
ST> Date: Wednes=
day, September 2, 2009, 4:50 PM

ST> =A0 

ST> You beat me to Another Man's=
 Cage recommendation. I thought
ST> the same of Finarfin too, that he was l=
acking guts. He wouldn't
ST> have lasted 20 minutes in Bronx. 

ST> " Just =
finished writing a story, where I did everything I
ST> could to make Finarf=
in sympathetic and still most readers didn't
ST> much like my positive vers=
ion of him."

ST> That's bad. I guess it's coz he's not as flashy as his
ST=
> brothers. Did you slash him? Finarfin slash won't have the same
ST> appea=
l as Feanor or Fingolfin slash. 

ST> Kinslaying and Finarfin - I don't kno=
w if I remember
ST> correctly. But jdav's Finarfin was a kinslayer. She lov=
es giving
ST> her elves blades to kill people with. I think her Galadriel w=
as a
ST> kinslayer too. Something went like Finarfin was about to be killed=

ST> by Olwe and Galadriel rushed to her father's side and killed her
ST> g=
randpa? Jdav has a complicated tangle there. 

















      
--0-1461225023-1251914979=:95225
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I am talking about Tolkien's text, of co=
urse. We all have different versions of the characters, but I was always sp=
eaking about the books, and of course, our interpretation of them. 

<=
DIV> 

I don't know why I thought Fingolfin also rushed in, =
but I must have assumed it. (smile)


 


I write Si=
m fics too, but I haven't written about those moments. I do have a fic writ=
ten from  Finarfin's POV, pre silmarils, here:


 
=



 


My other Silm Fic=
s, if you wish to check when you have time:


 


http://tati24.livejourna=
l.com/56199.html


 


CC

--- On Wed, =
9/2/09, hathorsisle  wrote:


From: hathorsisle 
Subje=
ct: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: On Finarfin
To: SilmarillionWritersGu=
ild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:25 PM


=

  



Hmmm,

ST> I have to read that part again. I be=
lieve Finrod didn't
ST> participate, as he was freed from the Halls v=
ery quickly.

are you talking now of the original text by JRRT or rec=
ommended fan
fiction? I understood what has been told about Jdav fics be=
low was
about fan fiction, not original texts.

Apart Feanorians o=
nly Fingon bears blood on his hand in original texts. We've been
discuss=
ing here possibilities for Turgon for joining in, but if I
remember corr=
ectly all has been abandoned. There are no evidence pro
nor against, but=
 there is only mention about Fingon which simply
excludes all other Fing=
lofinians and people of Finarfin walking in the
end are beyond a discuss=
ion. Fan fiction is a different thing, here
anything could happen. I'm c=
urious now what Jdav did with characters,
but can't read stories now :(<=
BR>
Suilad,
Sirielle 

http://www.sirielle .com

ST> &nb=
sp;

ST> CC

ST> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, silmdevil <sil=
mdevils@yahoo. in> wrote:


ST> From: silmdevil <s=
ilmdevils@yahoo. in>
ST> Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] =
Re: On Finarfin
ST> To: =
SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com
ST> Date: Wednesday, S=
eptember 2, 2009, 4:50 PM

ST>   

ST> You beat me t=
o Another Man's Cage
 recommendation. I thought
ST> the same of Finar=
fin too, that he was lacking guts. He wouldn't
ST> have lasted 20 min=
utes in Bronx. 

ST> " Just finished writing a story, where I did =
everything I
ST> could to make Finarfin sympathetic and still most re=
aders didn't
ST> much like my positive version of him."

ST>=
 That's bad. I guess it's coz he's not as flashy as his
ST> brothers.=
 Did you slash him? Finarfin slash won't have the same
ST> appeal as =
Feanor or Fingolfin slash. 

ST> Kinslaying and Finarfin - I don't=
 know if I remember
ST> correctly. But jdav's Finarfin was a kinslaye=
r. She loves giving
ST> her elves blades to kill people with. I think=
 her Galadriel was a
ST> kinslayer too. Something went like Finarfin =
was about to be killed
ST> by Olwe and Galadriel rushed to her father=
's side and killed her
ST> grandpa? Jdav has a complicated tangle the=
re.
 






     =
 
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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: September 2009 Newsletter (Finally) Posted!
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Hi, all,

It feels as though the world has been conspiring against me in getting this
newsletter out on time (although all of the contributors had their work in
on time--so I cannot blame them! :), but *at last,* we have a September 2009
newsletter, and I think it will be well worth the wait.

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/september2009.php

For columns, Oshun has written another of her marvelous character
biographies, this month on Finrod Felagund. Besides glossing the biography
of one of the most important characters in *The Silmarillion,* Oshun takes
on some of the popular fanons about Finrod and touches upon the *Athrabeth*.
As a bonus, Pandemonium has contributed a cartoon for the biography.

Darth Fingon's "Linguistic Foolery" this month addresses the question of
when it is appropriate to use Sindarin and when it is appropriate to use
Quenya in Tolkien-based stories. If you've ever been confused about which to
choose--and I suspect many of us have--this article is provides some good,
simple advice on how to make the right decision.

This month, as well, we debut something new in the newsletter. Pandemonium
has kindly agreed to allow us to "syndicate" her comic strip "Gothmog and
Draugluin" here each month. This month, the two pals discover that Melkor
has brought something home with him. Whitewave and her charming chibis also
feature this month, answering some of those pressing questions about Finrod:
What *exactly* went on between Finrod and Amarie? How did he end up in the
lair of a werewolf? And who came up with the disguise he used to get there?

Oh, and there's also some news. Naturally. ;) And, of course, announcements
from other groups in Around the World and Web.

Enjoy!

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--00504502cf6aa6c9150472a49f6e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, all,

It feels as though the world has been conspiring against me=
 in getting this newsletter out on time (although all of the contributors h=
ad their work in on time--so I cannot blame them! :), but at last, w=
e have a September 2009 newsletter, and I think it will be well worth the w=
ait.


http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/september2009.php=


For columns, Oshun has written another of her marvelous charact=
er biographies, this month on Finrod Felagund. Besides glossing the biograp=
hy of one of the most important characters in The Silmarillion, Oshu=
n takes on some of the popular fanons about Finrod and touches upon the =
Athrabeth. As a bonus, Pandemonium has contributed a cartoon for the bi=
ography.


Darth Fingon's "Linguistic Foolery" this mon=
th addresses the question of when it is appropriate to use Sindarin and whe=
n it is appropriate to use Quenya in Tolkien-based stories. If you've e=
ver been confused about which to choose--and I suspect many of us have--thi=
s article is provides some good, simple advice on how to make the right dec=
ision.


This month, as well, we debut something new in the newslette=
r. Pandemonium has kindly agreed to allow us to "syndicate" her c=
omic strip "Gothmog and Draugluin" here each month. This month, t=
he two pals discover that Melkor has brought something home with him. White=
wave and her charming chibis also feature this month, answering some of tho=
se pressing questions about Finrod: What exactly went on between Fin=
rod and Amarie? How did he end up in the lair of a werewolf? And who came u=
p with the disguise he used to get there?


Oh, and there's also =
some news. Naturally. ;) And, of course, announcements from other groups in=
 Around the World and Web.

Enjoy!

Dawn

-=
- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/

http://www.silmarillionwritersgui=
ld.org


--00504502cf6aa6c9150472a49f6e--


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Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364d204798f8080472a4d5f4
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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Akallebeth in August: Day Thirty-Four
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=gLGSV9Nm8s97T-KqMa4EBWur5v-Sbfrmgw7fERQsklt7cJBo3Oy2
X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund


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"Thus it was that great mariners among them would still search the empty
seas, hoping to come upon the Isle of Meneltarma, and there to see a vision
of things that were. But they found it not."

"The Wrong Way to the Indies" by Fireworks
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/34-1.php

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016364d204798f8080472a4d5f4
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

"Thus it was that great mariners among them would still search the emp=
ty seas, hoping to come upon the Isle of Meneltarma, and there to see a vis=
ion of things that were. But they found it not."

"The Wron=
g Way to the Indies" by Fireworks

http://www.silmarillionwr=
itersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/34-1.php

-- ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o=
rg


--0016364d204798f8080472a4d5f4--


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From: "couldnotfindanameiliked" 
Subject: Re: On Finarfin
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> 
> Flames - they're gonna happen on ff.net. It's the cradle of wannable >=
flamers;) Just don't take that to heart. 
>  

Actually that particular com=
ment was from HASA.




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From: melissa chandra 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: On Finarfin
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Mm. The review spoken about is one of Dawn's stories in FFN, I think, Tinni=
, not yours, I think... I forget what was being talked about back then, but=
 it was, as far as I know. (Well, flamers are everywhere, indeed... but I a=
gree with the person who said that FFN seems to 'attract' many flamers.) - =
Rey=A0 On Thu, 9/3/09, couldnotfindanameiliked =
 wrote:

From: couldnotfindanameiliked 
Subject=
: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: On Finarfin
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@y=
ahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 2:19 AM






=A0




   =
 
                  > 

> Flames - they're gonna happen on ff.net. It's the=
 cradle of wannable >flamers;) Just don't take that to heart. 

>  



Actu=
ally that particular comment was from HASA.




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	=

	








	


	
	


      
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Mm. The review spoken about is one of Dawn's =
stories in FFN, I think, Tinni, not yours, I think... I forget what was bei=
ng talked about back then, but it was, as far as I know. (Well, flamers are=
 everywhere, indeed... but I agree with the person who said that FFN seems =
to 'attract' many flamers.) - Rey  On Thu, 9/3/09, couldnotfindanam=
eiliked  wrote:

From: couldnotfindanameiliked 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: On Finarfin
To: Silma=
rillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 2=
:19 AM






 

    

                  
> 

&=
gt; Flames - they're gonna happen on ff.net. It's the cradle of wannable &g=
t;flamers;) Just don't take that to heart. 

>  



Actually th=
at particular comment was from HASA.





 

    
  


	 
	
	=






      
--0-2122087955-1251965739=:34702--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:54:53 -0000
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "nelyo_russandol" 
Subject: Beta Needed!
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X-Yahoo-Profile: nelyo_russandol

Hi,
For my first ever attempt at a Silm-fic story I would be most grateful =
for a beta reader. 

It is just short of 2,000 words and it covers the tale=
 of a sword over the ages of Middle-earth. I haven't thought much about the=
 title yet. 

If anyone would be so kind as to consider beta-ing it I would=
 be extremely happy. I would appreciate any feedback on how to improve it: =
annoying errors in canon, what works/doesn't, grammar, etc.

Any takers? 
R=
ussandol



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From: "nav_joyi" 
Subject: Re: Beta Needed!
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X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi

I'd be happy to do it. The tale of a sword? *Long suppressed Anglachel plot=
 bunny peeks out*  I am intrigued!


jdav.
nav_joyi@yahoo.com


--- In Silm=
arillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nelyo_russandol"  w=
rote:
>
> Hi,
> For my first ever attempt at a Silm-fic story I would be mo=
st grateful for a beta reader. 
> 
> It is just short of 2,000 words and it=
 covers the tale of a sword over the ages of Middle-earth. I haven't though=
t much about the title yet. 
> 
> If anyone would be so kind as to consider=
 beta-ing it I would be extremely happy. I would appreciate any feedback on=
 how to improve it: annoying errors in canon, what works/doesn't, grammar, =
etc.
> 
> Any takers? 
> Russandol
>




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To: SWG 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364d2047dfe54a0472b692e9
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0
From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Thirty-Five
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=C6zcZ3Q-FvL4QhBtQpy9Cok08fWaOk_RFKeMH9gltgrn9cYGcbvO
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"But Sauron was not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of that
shape in which he had wrought so great an evil, so that he could never again
appear fair to the eyes of Men, yet his spirit arose out of the deep and
passed as a shadow and a black wind over the sea, and came back to
Middle-earth and to Mordor that was his home."

"Into This Wild Abyss: On the Perilous Edge" by Pandemonium_213
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/34-1.php

Pandemonium's story was actually supposed to be posted yesterday and
Fireworks' story today, but I got the dates mixed up when putting posts
together yesterday. The order of the stories has been fixed on the main site
and on the index. My apologies for the mix-up! :)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016364d2047dfe54a0472b692e9
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"But Sauron was not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of t=
hat shape in which he had wrought so great an evil, so that he could never =
again appear fair to the eyes of Men, yet his spirit arose out of the deep =
and passed as a shadow and a black wind over the sea, and came back to Midd=
le-earth and to Mordor that was his home."


"Into This Wil=
d Abyss: On the Perilous Edge" by Pandemonium_213
http://www=
.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/34-1.php


Pan=
demonium's story was actually supposed to be posted yesterday and Firew=
orks' story today, but I got the dates mixed up when putting posts toge=
ther yesterday. The order of the stories has been fixed on the main site an=
d on the index. My apologies for the mix-up! :)


Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwri=
tersguild.org



--0016364d2047dfe54a0472b692e9--


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I would be happy to beta-read it :) - Rey

--- On Thu, 9/3/09, nelyo_russan=
dol  wrote:

From: nelyo_russandol 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Beta Needed!
To: Silma=
rillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 9:54=
 AM






=A0




    
                  Hi,

For my first ever attempt at =
a Silm-fic story I would be most grateful for a beta reader. 



It is just=
 short of 2,000 words and it covers the tale of a sword over the ages of Mi=
ddle-earth. I haven't thought much about the title yet. 



If anyone would=
 be so kind as to consider beta-ing it I would be extremely happy. I would =
appreciate any feedback on how to improve it: annoying errors in canon, wha=
t works/doesn' t, grammar, etc.



Any takers? 

Russandol




 

      

 =
   
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      
--0-959444210-1252067003=:67692
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I would be happy to beta-read it :) - Rey
=

--- On Thu, 9/3/09, nelyo_russandol  wrote:

From: nelyo_russandol =

Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B=
eta Needed!
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursd=
ay, September 3, 2009, 9:54 AM






 

    

         =
         
Hi,

For my first ever attempt at a Silm-fic story I would b=
e most grateful for a beta reader. 



It is just short of 2,000 word=
s and it covers the tale of a sword over the ages of Middle-earth. I haven'=
t thought much about the title yet. 



If anyone would be so kind as=
 to consider beta-ing it I would be extremely happy. I would appreciate any=
 feedback on how to improve it: annoying errors in canon, what works/doesn'=
 t, grammar, etc.



Any takers? 

Russandol





 

    =

  


	 
	
	



      
--0-959444210-1252067003=:67692--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Thirty-Six
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=q1ScfPxnhGdpWHp11kPmH1zml0vRK-TuIgZVQW6T5w2LjMyohbbl
X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund


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"And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the sea concerning mariner=
s
and men forlorn upon the water who, by some fate or grace or favour of th=
e
Valar, had entered in upon the Straight Way and seen the face of the worl=
d
sink below them, and so had come to the lamplit quays of Avall=C3=B3n=C3=
=AB, or verily
to the last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had loo=
ked upon the
White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died."

"A=
 Mighty Bridge Invisible" by Noliel
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org=
/akallabeth-in-august/36-1.php

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens=
.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016364c7a9b78f5250472cbfa0d
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"And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the sea concerning ma=
riners and men forlorn upon the water who, by some fate or grace or favour =
of the Valar, had entered in upon the Straight Way and seen the face of the=
 world sink below them, and so had come to the lamplit quays of Avall=C3=B3=
n=C3=AB, or verily to the last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had=
 looked upon the White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died.&=
quot;


"A Mighty Bridge Invisible" by Noliel
htt=
p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/36-1.php


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/=

http://www.silm=
arillionwritersguild.org



--0016364c7a9b78f5250472cbfa0d--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Akallabeth in August: Day Thirty-Seven (and The End! :)
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"And those that sailed far came only to the new lands ..."

"The Man Who Grew Tomatoes" by Pandemonium_213
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/37-1.php

---

Today is the final day of Akallabeth in August. Again, I want to thank
everyone who participated, whether as artists and writers or readers and
reviewers. I hope everyone has had as much fun this past month-and-change as
I have!

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--001517441366df23fb0472e05a5c
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"And those that sailed far came only to the new lands ..."
"The Man Who Grew Tomatoes" by Pandemonium_213
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/37=
-1.php



---

Today is the final day of Akallabeth in Augu=
st. Again, I want to thank everyone who participated, whether as artists an=
d writers or readers and reviewers. I hope everyone has had as much fun thi=
s past month-and-change as I have!


Dawn

-- ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
ht=
tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org


--001517441366df23fb0472e05a5c--


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From: "roisin_elendiel" 
Subject: Re: Akallabeth in August: Day Thirty-Seven (and The End! :)
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=I8P7sOlDidBeJ3ELrq3cMPGaZ-OZ8lknL_o4Yv8gYO4n8tFR3m-wwTJyjI1BnEvqP3sRjA
X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel


"Sniffles" is it really the end? It was so wonderful! Each day was like
op=
ening a new gift, seriously! Thank you, Dawn, and all those who
contributed=
, for making Akallabeth in August happen. I have to say, this
was the most =
fun I've ever had writing and reading in the fandom. I'm
still catching up =
on reviews.

This was so much fun, Dawn, thank you for taking a huge bulk o=
f your
time and energy to create such a wonderful challenge "tight hugs" I =
know
it wasno easy feat! Really, a lot of thanks goes to you too, and I kno=
w
you put so much into this, and I wanted you to know that this challenge
m=
eant a lot to me and that I enjoyed every moment of it. Thank you Dawn
and =
Moderator team at SWG!

Roisin


--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup=
s.com, Dawn Felagund
 wrote:
>
> "And those that sailed f=
ar came only to the new lands ..."
>
> "The Man Who Grew Tomatoes" by Pande=
monium_213
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/3=
7-1.php
>
> ---
>
> Today is the final day of Akallabeth in August. Again, =
I want to thank
> everyone who participated, whether as artists and writers=
 or readers
and
> reviewers. I hope everyone has had as much fun this past
=
month-and-change as
> I have!
>
> Dawn
>
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> htt=
p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmarillionwritersgu=
ild.org
>





From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "nelyo_russandol" 
Subject: Re: Beta needed
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=403782243; y=bnkwTJgltDYxQJG79anuOK99v4pJSxOg81n_xOY47rtw
X-Yahoo-Profile: nelyo_russandol

Hi melissa chandra,
Thanks for your kind reply and sorry for my delay in re=
sponding to your offer, I did not have proper access to the internet for th=
e last few days. 

I have found someone who has volunteered this time, so p=
erhaps I can tempt you another time?

Again, many thanks!
Russandol



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From: melissa chandra 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Beta needed
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No problem. :) Anytime, Russandol. I glad for you for having found a beta-r=
eader that suits your current need. - Rey

--- On Mon, 9/7/09, nelyo_russan=
dol  wrote:

From: nelyo_russandol 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Beta needed
To: Si=
lmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 4:0=
0 AM






=A0




    
                  Hi melissa chandra,

Thanks for y=
our kind reply and sorry for my delay in responding to your offer, I did no=
t have proper access to the internet for the last few days. 



I have foun=
d someone who has volunteered this time, so perhaps I can tempt you another=
 time?



Again, many thanks!

Russandol




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	
=








	


	
	


      
--0-943071971-1252311336=:86873
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


No problem. :) Anytime, Russandol. I glad for=
 you for having found a beta-reader that suits your current need. - Rey
=

--- On Mon, 9/7/09, nelyo_russandol  wrote:

From: nelyo_russandol =

Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] R=
e: Beta needed
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon=
day, September 7, 2009, 4:00 AM






 

    

       =
           
Hi melissa chandra,

Thanks for your kind reply and sorry =
for my delay in responding to your offer, I did not have proper access to t=
he internet for the last few days. 



I have found someone who has v=
olunteered this time, so perhaps I can tempt you another time?



Aga=
in, many thanks!

Russandol





 

    
  


	 
	
	
=




      
--0-943071971-1252311336=:86873--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: One More for AinA ...
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--001517401e3ab37a0c04730552d0
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Casting my mind back to when Peter Jackson's *Return of the King* was
released in theaters, it seemed that the movie was going to end about a
half-dozen times and then ... it didn't. So, yes, I'm kind of pulling a PJ
on you. :)

Marta was initially scheduled for the next-to-last Akallabeth in August
story, but due to extenuating circumstances in both of our offline lives, we
weren't able to get it posted on time. I wanted everyone to know that I've
added it in its proper place in the story sequence before Pandemonium's
finale-story "The Man Who Grew Tomatoes":



And now we're really done! Until next year at least. ;)

Dawn

PS--By the end of today, you should be able to get to the AinA site from the
Special Projects link on our homepage:



-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--001517401e3ab37a0c04730552d0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Casting my mind back to when Peter Jackson's Return of the King =
was released in theaters, it seemed that the movie was going to end about a=
 half-dozen times and then ... it didn't. So, yes, I'm kind of pull=
ing a PJ on you. :)


Marta was initially scheduled for the next-to-l=
ast Akallabeth in August story, but due to extenuating circumstances in bot=
h of our offline lives, we weren't able to get it posted on time. I wan=
ted everyone to know that I've added it in its proper place in the stor=
y sequence before Pandemonium's finale-story "The Man Who Grew Tom=
atoes":


<http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/aka=
llabeth-in-august/36-2.php>

And now we're really done! Un=
til next year at least. ;)


Dawn

PS--By the end of today, you=
 should be able to get to the AinA site from the Special Projects link on o=
ur homepage:

<http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/specialproject=
s.php>


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/h=
eretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



--001517401e3ab37a0c04730552d0--


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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:41:38 -0000
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Message-ID: 
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From: "dawnfelagund" 
Subject: Re: Akallabeth in August: Day Thirty-Seven (and The End! :)
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=K5WYD4JZpmjqVWrrEOAlFXcSFgELqnEO-jdHKK6NCU8Z3_t4ApXz
X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund

You're very welcome, Roisin! It was truly a labor of love. I think it turne=
d out wonderfully. Every time I think that the authors and artists on this =
group have shown their best, they surprise me again. I'm not complaining. :=
)

Putting the event together was, as ever, a group effort. All of the co-m=
ods offered a lot in the way of feedback and support in getting the event o=
ff the ground (or simply in covering for me when I was involved with AinA).=
 And Angelica put into HTML almost all of the stories. I hate to think of h=
ow many paragraph tags she typed ... If not for her efforts, I doubt we wou=
ld have been able to manage to post a story per day.

I just finished putti=
ng the project into its final form and getting a link onto the Special Proj=
ects page. While checking that all the page-turn links worked, it occurred =
to me how much fun it will be to reread the stories, in order, all at one t=
ime. I might need to reserve a month just for that. :)

Again, thank you to=
 all of you who contributed, even if "just" to read and cheer from the side=
lines! :)

Dawn

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "roisin_e=
lendiel"  wrote:
>
> 
> "Sniffles" is it really the end? It=
 was so wonderful! Each day was like
> opening a new gift, seriously! Thank=
 you, Dawn, and all those who
> contributed, for making Akallabeth in Augus=
t happen.



From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "silmdevil" 
Subject: 5 recs from Akallabeth
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X-Yahoo-Profile: silmdevil



I congratulate all the writers, beta-readers and website archivers who di=
d a
magnificent job of this special project.

http://www.silmarillionwriter=
sguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/

This is the master list of stories.

I pi=
cked up five stories that I liked the most from this. I haven't read 4 to 5=

stories yet. So I am sorry if I missed something very great in that.

1. h=
ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/26-1.php
A-chib=
i-b=EAth in August: A Comic Interlude by Whitewave. This is too good.
White=
wave's chibi showing Sauron as a prisoner is guaranteed to be a substitute
=
of headache cure!

2. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in=
-august/32-2.php
I who loved her by Dawn Felagund. I must get two lines her=
e:

The delicate contour of flesh and bone,
Sketched in the trajectory of t=
ears.

It's a great poem, don't miss it!

3. http://www.silmarillionwriters=
guild.org/akallabeth-in-august/9-1.php
The Embalmer's Apprentice by Lyra. T=
his is too good to be real!

"My story begins on the day that I thought my =
life was over. Strange: These days
my age makes me forget whom I met yester=
day, or what I had for breakfast this
very morning, but that day I still re=
member clearly. Fear, I think, has etched
it into my memory.
That day I was=
 waiting for my death; and I was afraid."

It grips you from the start till=
 the very end of the tale. I can't give more
spoilers now!

4. Prisoners of=
 Conscience http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/17=
-1.php and the sequel While We Live http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org=
/akallabeth-in-august/22-1.php by JDE. 

"While we live, let us live."

A d=
ouble whammy this. It has plot-twists and sunsets in the signature JDE styl=
e.

5. Into This Wild Abyss
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive=
/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D635
Pandemonium_213

"He swatted at a fly that ha=
d the effrontery to try to bite his neck, but continued the count."

This j=
ust gives you a taste of the things Sauron is going to swat!
My favoritest =
story this time! Don't miss it! 





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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Happy Birthday, Silmarillion!
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On September 15, 1977, *The Silmarillion* was published. So that makes today
*The Silmarillion*'s 32nd birthday! Happy birthday, *Silmarillion*! :)

We didn't plan anything special to commemorate, but if you (like I) have
been putting off the muses lately, today might be a good day to break the
writers' block and write something in honor of *The Silmarillion*'s 32nd
birthday, even if "just" a drabble or vignette.

I wrote a post in my weble last night called "The Appeal of *The
Silmarillion,*" about how this book turned me into a fan-writer:

http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/2009/09/the-appeal-of-the-silmarillion/

Please do share stories, links, and thoughts here if you wish. :)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--000e0ce0d640b2e49904739ddcf3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On September 15, 1977, The Silmarillion was published. So tha=
t makes today The Silmarillion's 32nd birthday! Happy birthday=
, Silmarillion! :)


=C2=A0


We didn't plan=
 anything special to commemorate, but if you (like I) have been putting off=
 the muses lately, today might be a good day to break the writers' bloc=
k and write something in honor of The Silmarillion's 32nd birt=
hday, even if "just" a drabble or vignette.



=C2=A0

I wrote a post in my weble last night called "The Appeal of <=
em>The Silmarillion," about how this book turned me into a fan-wr=
iter:


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


Please do share stories, links, and thoughts here if y=
ou wish. :)


=C2=A0


Dawn


=


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
=
http://www.silmarillion=
writersguild.org


--000e0ce0d640b2e49904739ddcf3--


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From: Angelica 
Subject: Happy Birthday!
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To celebrate the Silmarillion's birthday, I'd like to share my own 30th ann=
iversary (Oh my!)with it.
30 years ago (yes, I'm of "that age") roaming aro=
und the Librer=EDa Rodr=EDguez (despite its name one of the main suppliers =
of English books in Buenos Aires until its much lamented demise a few years=
 ago) there was this counter with newly arrived Tolkien books. Although I h=
ad spent a good part of my teens reading SciFi (Arthur Clarke mostly and ha=
d just been introduced to Ursula LeGuin) I had never had any contact with o=
r reference about Middle-earth. So, I thought, if this book tells the backg=
round story to the LotR and it's one volume versus three, this is where I s=
hould begin ...

Ok, so you can survive reading the Silmarillion first, tho=
ugh I would not recommend it. Another very clear recollection is going back=
 home by train one evening and wondering whether to try another chapter or =
just throw it through the window when suddenly, just like the Gates of Mori=
a, the door to Middle-earth creaked open and I stepped in. Despite work, un=
iversity, babies, life, I have never wholly left again. Incidentally, the c=
hapter of all possible chapters was "Of the Noldor in Beleriand"! 

To thir=
ty more years (at least)

Angelica


      
--0-1317782293-1253041043=:73907
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


To celebrate the Silmarillion's=
 birthday, I'd like to share my own 30th anniversary (Oh my!)with it.
30=
 years ago (yes, I'm of "that age") roaming around the Librer=EDa Rodr=EDgu=
ez (despite its name one of the main suppliers of English books in Buenos A=
ires until its much lamented demise a few years ago) there was this counter=
 with newly arrived Tolkien books. Although I had spent a good part of my t=
eens reading SciFi (Arthur Clarke mostly and had just been introduced to Ur=
sula LeGuin) I had never had any contact with or reference about Middle-ear=
th. So, I thought, if this book tells the background story to the LotR and =
it's one volume versus three, this is where I should begin ...

Ok, s=
o you can survive reading the Silmarillion first, though I would not
 recom=
mend it. Another very clear recollection is going back home by train one ev=
ening and wondering whether to try another chapter or just throw it through=
 the window when suddenly, just like the Gates of Moria, the door to Middle=
-earth creaked open and I stepped in. Despite work, university, babies, lif=
e, I have never wholly left again. Incidentally, the chapter of all possibl=
e chapters was "Of the Noldor in Beleriand"! 

To thirty more years (=
at least)

Angelica




      
--0-1317782293-1253041043=:73907--


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To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "pandemonium_213" 
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!
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X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213

If it's any consolation, Angelica, I'm of "an age," too.  :^)

My (then fut=
ure) mother-in-law, a librarian at a branch of the Chicago Public Library s=
ystem, gave The Silmarillion to me for Christmas in 1977, a few months afte=
r its publication.  I had read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings multipl=
e times before delving into The Silmarillion, but in spite of the stark dif=
ference of The Silm to the others, I devoured the book.  I had been exposed=
 to mythology from a pretty young age (my mother was a Latin major in colle=
ge and was big on Graeco-Roman myths) so that is exactly how The Silmarilli=
on read to me -- as the mythic history of Middle-earth.  That "high mythic"=
 tone appealed to me deeply and left indelible marks -- as beautiful and te=
rrible as Tengwar script on a ring -- in my literary consciousness.  But af=
ter 10 years of reading and re-reading The Silm, I set it aside and did not=
 pick it up for almost 20 years.  Reading again after that long hiatus was =
a revelation to say the least.  The stories spoke to me in an entirely diff=
erent manner.

I read The LotR and The Hobbit for pure escapism, but The Si=
lmarillion?  The pathways to the Perilous Realm are to be found there.

Yes=
, to thirty more years -- Valarin years, that is!


--- In SilmarillionWrit=
ersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Angelica  wrote:
>
> To cele=
brate the Silmarillion's birthday, I'd like to share my own 30th anniversar=
y (Oh my!)with it.
> 30 years ago (yes, I'm of "that age") roaming around t=
he Librer=EDa Rodr=EDguez (despite its name one of the main suppliers of En=
glish books in Buenos Aires until its much lamented demise a few years ago)=
 there was this counter with newly arrived Tolkien books. Although I had sp=
ent a good part of my teens reading SciFi (Arthur Clarke mostly and had jus=
t been introduced to Ursula LeGuin) I had never had any contact with or ref=
erence about Middle-earth. So, I thought, if this book tells the background=
 story to the LotR and it's one volume versus three, this is where I should=
 begin ...
> 
> Ok, so you can survive reading the Silmarillion first, thou=
gh I would not recommend it. Another very clear recollection is going back =
home by train one evening and wondering whether to try another chapter or j=
ust throw it through the window when suddenly, just like the Gates of Moria=
, the door to Middle-earth creaked open and I stepped in. Despite work, uni=
versity, babies, life, I have never wholly left again. Incidentally, the ch=
apter of all possible chapters was "Of the Noldor in Beleriand"! 
> 
> To t=
hirty more years (at least)
> 
> Angelica
>




From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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Well, I just noted on my LJ that Dawn is such an overchiever that she even=
 managed to be born the day after the anniversary of the publication of The=
 Silmarillion. Happy Birthday, Dawn. 



I wish someone had told me to read=
 The Silmarillion 30 years ago. I re-read LotR every year and was hooked on=
 the backstory, but did not look for the source of it until I started writi=
ng fanfics a couple of years ago. I adore it. I have to admit selectively, =
however. For me it is all about the Silmarils, the Noldor and Feanor. But, =
with the prodding of my friends and the privilege of working with Dawn, et =
al., on the SWG monthly bios, I am mastering the rest of the=C2=A0story ove=
r time. How many times have I read the Silmarillion in the last few years? =
It is beginning to rival the number of times I've read LotR over my 30 year=
s of re-reading it. 



Here's a toast to The Silmarillion and the crazy ge=
eks who love it! Oh, yes, to the old professor also for his terrific imagin=
ation.


Oshun

-----Original Message-----
From: pandemonium_213 
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Sep 1=
5, 2009 10:15 pm
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Happy Birthday!


=

 



If it's any consolation, Angelica, I'm of "an age," too. :^)

My (the=
n future) mother-in-law, a librarian at a branch of the Chicago Public Libr=
ary system, gave The Silmarillion to me for Christmas in 1977, a few months=
 after its publication. I had read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Ring
s mu=
ltiple times before delving into The Silmarillion, but in spite of the star=
k difference of The Silm to the others, I devoured the book. I had been exp=
osed to mythology from a pretty young age (my mother was a Latin major in c=
ollege and was big on Graeco-Roman myths) so that is exactly how The Silmar=
illion read to me -- as the mythic history of Middle-earth. That "high myth=
ic" tone appealed to me deeply and left indelible marks -- as beautiful and=
 terrible as Tengwar script on a ring -- in my literary consciousness. But =
after 10 years of reading and re-reading The Silm, I set it aside and did n=
ot pick it up for almost 20 years. Reading again after that long hiatus was=
 a revelation to say the least. The stories spoke to me in an entirely diff=
erent manner.

I read The LotR and The Hobbit for pure escapism, but The Si=
lmarillion? The pathways to the Perilous Realm are to be found there.

Yes,=
 to thirty more years -- Valarin years, that is!

--- In SilmarillionWriter=
sGuild@yahoogroups.com, Angelica  wrote:
>
> To celebr=
ate the Silmarillion's birthday, I'd like to share my own 30th anniversary =
(Oh my!)with it.
> 30 years ago (yes, I'm of "that age") roaming around the=
 Librer=C3=ADa Rodr=C3=ADguez (despite its name one of the main suppliers o=
f English books in Buenos Aires until its much lamented demise a few years =
ago) there was this counter with newly arrived Tolkien books. Although I ha=
d spent a good part of my teens reading SciFi (Arthur Clarke mostly and had=
 just bee
n introduced to Ursula LeGuin) I had never had any contact with o=
r reference about Middle-earth. So, I thought, if this book tells the backg=
round story to the LotR and it's one volume versus three, this is where I s=
hould begin ...
> 
> Ok, so you can survive reading the Silmarillion first,=
 though I would not recommend it. Another very clear recollection is going =
back home by train one evening and wondering whether to try another chapter=
 or just throw it through the window when suddenly, just like the Gates of =
Moria, the door to Middle-earth creaked open and I stepped in. Despite work=
, university, babies, life, I have never wholly left again. Incidentally, t=
he chapter of all possible chapters was "Of the Noldor in Beleriand"! 
> 
>=
 To thirty more years (at least)
> 
> Angelica
>







----------MB_8CC0512317DB194_662C_D9DB_webmail-d077.sysops.aol.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"



Well, I just noted on my LJ that Dawn is such an overchiever that she=
 even managed to be born the day after the anniversary of the publication o=
f The Silmarillion. Happy Birthday, Dawn. 




 



I wish someone had told me to read The Silmarillion 30 y=
ears ago. I re-read LotR every year and was hooked on the backstory, but di=
d not look for the source of it until I started writing fanfics a couple of=
 years ago. I adore it. I have to admit selectively, however. For me it is =
all about the Silmarils, the Noldor and Feanor. But, with the prodding of m=
y friends and the privilege of working with Dawn, et al., on the SWG monthl=
y bios, I am mastering the rest of the story over time. How many times=
 have I read the Silmarillion in the last few years? It is beginning to riv=
al the number of times I've read LotR over my 30 years of re-reading it. 



 




Here's a toast to The Silmarillion=
 and the crazy geeks who love it! Oh, yes, to the old professor also for hi=
s terrific imagination.






Oshun



-----Original Mess=
age-----

From: pandemonium_213 

To: Si=
lmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:15 pm=


Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Happy Birthday!







  











If it's an=
y consolation, Angelica, I'm of "an age," too. :^)



My (then future=
) mother-in-law, a librarian at a branch of the Chicago Public Library syst=
em, gave The Silmarillion to me for Christmas in 1977, a few months after i=
ts publication. I had read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings multiple ti=
mes before delving into The Silmarillion, but in spite of the stark differe=
nce of The Silm to the others, I devoured the book. I had been exposed to m=
ythology from a pretty young age (my mother was a Latin major in college an=
d was big on Graeco-Roman myths) so that is exactly how The Silmarillion re=
ad to me -- as the mythic history of Middle-earth. That "high mythic" tone =
appealed to me deeply and left indelible marks -- as beautiful and terrible=
 as Tengwar script on a ring -- in my literary consciousness. But after 10 =
years of reading and re-reading The Silm, I set it aside and did not pick i=
t up for almost 20 years. Reading again after that long hiatus was a revela=
tion to say the least. The stories spoke to me in an entirely different man=
ner.



I read The LotR and The Hobbit for pure escapism, but The Sil=
marillion? The pathways to the Perilous Realm are to be found there.


Yes, to thirty more years -- Valarin years, that is!



--- In SilmarillionWrit=
er
sGuild@yahoogroups.com, Angelica =
...> wrote:

>

> To celebrate the Silmarillion's birth=
day, I'd like to share my own 30th anniversary (Oh my!)with it.

> 30=
 years ago (yes, I'm of "that age") roaming around the Librer=C3=ADa Rodr=
=C3=ADguez (despite its name one of the main suppliers of English books in =
Buenos Aires until its much lamented demise a few years ago) there was this=
 counter with newly arrived Tolkien books. Although I had spent a good part=
 of my teens reading SciFi (Arthur Clarke mostly and had just been introduc=
ed to Ursula LeGuin) I had never had any contact with or reference about Mi=
ddle-earth. So, I thought, if this book tells the background story to the L=
otR and it's one volume versus three, this is where I should begin ...

=
> 

> Ok, so you can survive reading the Silmarillion first, thoug=
h I would not recommend it. Another very clear recollection is going back h=
ome by train one evening and wondering whether to try another chapter or ju=
st throw it through the window when suddenly, just like the Gates of Moria,=
 the door to Middle-earth creaked open and I stepped in. Despite work, univ=
ersity, babies, life, I have never wholly left again. Incidentally, the cha=
pter of all possible chapters was "Of the Noldor in Beleriand"! 

> <=
br>
> To thirty more years (at least)

> 

> Angelica

&g=
t;
















Well, lucky people, to claim that their birthdays fall in the Silm anniversary week:) 4 years after its actual debut? It would still make the youngest of the lot? *sighs* I had hoped that you and I were 'peers'. 
From: Dawn Felagund 
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:25:11
 PM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Happy Birthday!














 

    

                  
Thank you, JDE! As Oshun aptly noted, over-achiever that I am, I was born the day after the Silm was published (though four years after its actual debut). In fandom, I share my birthday with Nefret and I believe Linda Hoyland as well. And there's lots of other fannish folk with birthdays in September too. I don't know of anyone offhand who shares the Silm's birthday though--I guess it's special enough to get that day to itself! :)


Dawn

On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 6:35 AM, nav_joyi <nav_joyi@yahoo. com> wrote:













 




    
                  

I noticed the interesting coincidence between your birthday and the anniversary, Dawn. Belated birthday wishes. 



 
-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org


 

    
  


	
	
	





      
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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Happy Birthday!
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Lol, I usually get told that I'm a baby in this fandom! I started SWG when I
was 23, and then *I* always felt like the youngest of the lot! :D I'm 28 as
of Wednesday. In this group, we have quite an age range, from high school on
up, and I don't think anyone is really an outlier.

I tend to think of my fandom "peers" more as being intellectual and creative
equals rather than people I could have gone to high school with. So, to me,
we're peers. :)

Dawn

On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 10:47 AM, nav Joy  wrote:


> 4 years after its actual debut? It would still make the youngest of the
> lot? *sighs* I had hoped that you and I were 'peers'.
>

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--001636c5a86f89338a0473f24990
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Lol, I usually get told that I'm a baby in this fandom! I started SWG w=
hen I was 23, and then I always felt like the youngest of the lot! :=
D I'm 28 as of Wednesday. In this group, we have quite an age range, fr=
om high school on up, and I don't think anyone is really an outlier.

I tend to think of my fandom "peers" more as being intellec=
tual and creative equals rather than people I could have gone to high schoo=
l with. So, to me, we're peers. :)

Dawn


On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 10:47 AM, nav Joy <=
nav_joyi@yahoo.com> wro=
te:
=C2=A0


4 years after =
its actual debut? It would still make the youngest of the lot? *sighs* I ha=
d hoped that you and I were 'peers'.=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster=
/
http://www.sil=
marillionwritersguild.org



--001636c5a86f89338a0473f24990--


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To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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I'm nearing 21 :) So I can certainly imagine how it must have been to you f=
eel the youngest of the lot :D You have a point about creative equals than =
age grouping. While it is flattering that you consider me a peer in that ma=
nner, I must say that you are a natural poet and that words are your craft.=
 I consider it a privilege to know people like you on SWG and to read your =
lovingly woven works. Keep it going :)

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yah=
oogroups.com, Dawn Felagund  wrote:
>
> Lol, I usually ge=
t told that I'm a baby in this fandom! I started SWG when I
> was 23, and t=
hen *I* always felt like the youngest of the lot! :D I'm 28 as
> of Wednesd=
ay. In this group, we have quite an age range, from high school on
> up, an=
d I don't think anyone is really an outlier.
> 
> I tend to think of my fan=
dom "peers" more as being intellectual and creative
> equals rather than pe=
ople I could have gone to high school with. So, to me,
> we're peers. :)
> =

> Dawn
> 
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 10:47 AM, nav Joy  wrote=
:
> 
> 
> > 4 years after its actual debut? It would still make the younges=
t of the
> > lot? *sighs* I had hoped that you and I were 'peers'.
> >
> 
>=
 -- 
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
=
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
>




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From: Alassante7 
Subject: A Long Expected Contest..::October's Theme-Wicked Things::..
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--0-1557186692-1253716178=:71030
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'What he had been doing he would not say. He only wept and called us =
cruel, with many a gollum in his throat; and when we pressed him he whined =
and cringed, and rubbed his long hands, licking his fingers as if they pain=
ed him, as if he remembered some old torture. But I am afraid there is no p=
ossible doubt: he had made his slow, sneaking way, step by step, mile by mi=
le, south, down at last to the Land of Mordor.'
=A0
A heavy silence fell in=
 the room. Frodo could hear his heart beating. Even outside everything seem=
ed still. No sound of Sam's shears could now be heard.
=A0
'Yes, to Mordor,=
' said Gandalf. 'Alas! Mordor draws all wicked things, and the Dark Power w=
as bending all its will to gather them there. The Ring of the Enemy would l=
eave its mark, too, leave him open to the summons. And all folk were whispe=
ring then of the new Shadow in the South, and its hatred of the West. There=
 were his fine new friends, who would help him in his revenge!'
=A0
=A0
The=
 theme for October is 'Wicked Things'. 
=A0
It doesn't have to be based on =
documented events=A0OR need to be based on an actual character in the books=
. Each writer has until=A0October 31th to turn in the story to alec_votecoo=
rdinato r@yahoo.com. 

=A0
Note - I have changed the email address to the s=
ame address as voting due to some confusion of where to send things. SEND A=
LL STORIES AND VOTES TO alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com.
=A0
Please include=
 the proper formatting for LJ. If you have any questions about how to do th=
at, feel free to ask.

Good luck and happy writing!
=A0
=A0
Don't forget th=
at voting is still going on for 'But You're a Girl' until September 26th!

=

=A0
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/
=A0
http://comm=
unity.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/
=A0

=A0



~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore m=
e, I shall take my revenge.=A0 
JRR Tolkien
=A0




=A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=
=A0 -:=A6:- 
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=
=A0
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0
=A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4=
*=A0 -:|:-



      
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=


'What he had be=
en doing he would not say. He only wept and called us cruel, with many a <=
FONT size=3D2>gollum in his throat; and when we pressed him he whined and cr=
inged, and rubbed his long hands, licking his fingers as if they pained him=
, as if he remembered some old torture. But I am afraid there is no possibl=
e doubt: he had made his slow, sneaking way, step by step, mile by mile, so=
uth, down at last to the Land of Mordor.'


 

A he=
avy silence fell in the room. Frodo could hear his heart beating. Even outs=
ide everything seemed still. No sound of Sam's shears could now be heard.


 


'Yes, to Mordor,' said Gandalf. 'Alas! Mordor d=
raws all wicked things, and the Dark Power was bending all its will to gath=
er them there. The Ring of the Enemy would leave its mark, too, leave him o=
pen to the summons. And all folk were whispering then of the new Shadow in =
the South, and its hatred of the West. There were his fine new friends, who=
 would help him in his revenge!'


 

 

The theme for October is 'Wicked Things'. =


 

It do=
esn't have to be based on documented events OR need to be based on an actual character in the books. Each writer has unti=
l October 31th to turn in the sto=
ry to alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com<=
/A>. 


 

Note - I have changed the email a=
ddress to the same address as voting due to some confusion of where to send=
 things. SEND ALL STORIES AND VOTES TO alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com.

 

Please include the proper formatting for LJ.=
 If you have any questions about how to do that, feel free to ask.

Good luck and happy writing!

&n=
bsp;

<=
/FONT> 

Don't forget that voting is still going on for 'But You're a=
 Girl' until September 26th!

=



 



 



 


 



=




~~**~~

I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my r=
evenge.  


JRR Tolkien


 










 ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:- 
  =
;      =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  =
;-:|:- 
=
=B0=
=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0
  &nbs=
p; -:=A6:-    ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-


=




      
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Who are your favorite characters to write? What is it that draws you to the=
se characters?  What did they do or what did Tolkien say about them that in=
spired your muse? What is it about them that compels you to tell their stor=
ies?


Ellie



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Hello,



Thank you for letting me aboard your merry ship. It seems like a=
 nice
happy group. I was curios really to find out what you were about and
=
why. My wife and many of my friends around the world are big Tolkien
fans, =
and needless to say I have been made to read a good bit of it and
also to w=
atch the movies et al :- )  And of course many of them are also
into other =
legends such as the Arthurian Grail hunt and the days of
Knights, Ladies, C=
astles and Wizards and Chivalry, etc. It must be a
deep seated subconscious=
 psychic archetype.



I have also been something of a writer for the last =
forty years =96
not by choice really but having been asked to write =96 wha=
t a cheek
eh :- )  But I did not write fiction. However, I was asked to try=
 a
novel some while ago just for a bit of fun and I did not fancy the idea
=
one jot. But I got clobbered into that too. But once I started it I
found i=
t to be quite good fun and something of a chill-out. But one of
the fun thi=
ngs about fiction (and which most people seem to read these
days anyway) is=
 that one can put bits of fact into it. Hence
FACT-in-FICTION, as opposed t=
o pure fantasy. So, it can be useful. So I
did a novel, but it is way way o=
ut and very involved in love, passion,
power, greed, insurrection, revoluti=
on, and synthesis. So, there is a
lot in it. But no goblins and elf's unfor=
tunately. So, I might be
able to pick up a few tips here on fiction writing=
 for the next novel,
it can always come in useful and inspirational.



Hav=
ing a quick read around I get the feeling that there are many young
people =
here (by that I mean under seventy :- )  But that is OK for I
like young pe=
ople and have had five kids of my own, and grandkids, and
now great-grandki=
ds. And the kids of course are tomorrows world. Let us
hope they leave it b=
etter than they found it. I know well enough that
they could if they tried;=
 for we are the stuff that dreams are made on,
and also the stuff to make t=
hem happen for real. A dream is no good
unless you do something effective w=
ith it.



Oh, I am Cockney from the slums of London by the way; but I have=
 lived
on and around Exmoor for over  fifty years. Still looking for Lorna
=
Doone dammit.



Dick Richardson.






--4-9594233187-3990674924=:6
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
Hello,


 


Thank you for letting me aboard your=
 merry ship. It seems like a nice happy group. I was curios really to find =
out what you were about and why. My wife and many of my friends around the =
world are big Tolkien fans, and needless to say I have been made to read a =
good bit of it and also to watch the movies et al :- )  A=
nd of course many of them are also into other legends such as the Arthurian=
 Grail hunt and the days of Knights, Ladies, Castles and Wizards and Chival=
ry, etc. It must be a deep seated subconscious psychic archetype.


 


I have also been something of a writer for the last forty years =
=96 not by choice really but having been asked to write =96 what a cheek eh=
 :- )  But I did not write fiction. However, I was asked =
to try a novel some while ago just for a bit of fun and I did not fancy the=
 idea one jot. But I got clobbered into that too. But once I started it I f=
ound it to be quite good fun and something of a chill-out. But one of the f=
un things about fiction (and which most people seem to read these days anyw=
ay) is that one can put bits of fact into it. Hence FACT-in-FICTION, as opp=
osed to pure fantasy. So, it can be useful. So I did a novel, but it is way=
 way out and very involved in love, passion, power, greed, insurrection, re=
volution, and synthesis. So, there is a lot in it. But no goblins and elf's=
 unfortunately. So, I might be able to pick up a few tips here on fiction w=
riting for the next novel, it can always come in useful and inspirational.<=
/FONT>


 =



Having a qu=
ick read around I get the feeling that there are many young people here (by=
 that I mean under seventy :- )  But that is OK for I lik=
e young people and have had five kids of my own, and grandkids, and now gre=
at-grandkids. And the kids of course are tomorrows world. Let us hope they =
leave it better than they found it. I know well enough that they could if t=
hey tried; for we are the stuff that dreams are made on, and also the stuff=
 to make them happen for real. A dream is no good unless you do something e=
ffective with it.


 


=
Oh, I am Cockney from the slums of London by the way; but I have liv=
ed on and around Exmoor for over  fifty years. Still look=
ing for Lorna Doone dammit.


 


Dick Richardson.


 


 <=
/P>

--4-9594233187-3990674924=:6--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=_KRUH3D_WKQLQFCvMtTPtUElTrVgt2LcTbH8K4arTAWWB_o
X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi

Hi,

It is a very nice, cosy place to be. I think those who love Tolkien, a=
nd love the Silmarillion the most among his works, are people who share a p=
assion for knights, legends and ladies. 

 I have also been something of a =
writer for the last forty years =96
> not by choice really but having been =
asked to write =96 what a cheek
> eh :- ) 

I wonder what that would mean? =


You are old only when you think you are;)
 
Welcome aboard,
jdav.

--- In=
 SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rwr"  wrot=
e:
>
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for letting me aboard your merry ship=
. It seems like a nice
> happy group. I was curios really to find out what =
you were about and
> why. My wife and many of my friends around the world a=
re big Tolkien
> fans, and needless to say I have been made to read a good =
bit of it and
> also to watch the movies et al :- )  And of course many of =
them are also
> into other legends such as the Arthurian Grail hunt and the=
 days of
> Knights, Ladies, Castles and Wizards and Chivalry, etc. It must =
be a
> deep seated subconscious psychic archetype.
> 
> 
> 
> I have also b=
een something of a writer for the last forty years =96
> not by choice real=
ly but having been asked to write =96 what a cheek
> eh :- )  But I did not=
 write fiction. However, I was asked to try a
> novel some while ago just f=
or a bit of fun and I did not fancy the idea
> one jot. But I got clobbered=
 into that too. But once I started it I
> found it to be quite good fun and=
 something of a chill-out. But one of
> the fun things about fiction (and w=
hich most people seem to read these
> days anyway) is that one can put bits=
 of fact into it. Hence
> FACT-in-FICTION, as opposed to pure fantasy. So, =
it can be useful. So I
> did a novel, but it is way way out and very involv=
ed in love, passion,
> power, greed, insurrection, revolution, and synthesi=
s. So, there is a
> lot in it. But no goblins and elf's unfortunately. So, =
I might be
> able to pick up a few tips here on fiction writing for the nex=
t novel,
> it can always come in useful and inspirational.
> 
> 
> 
> Havin=
g a quick read around I get the feeling that there are many young
> people =
here (by that I mean under seventy :- )  But that is OK for I
> like young =
people and have had five kids of my own, and grandkids, and
> now great-gra=
ndkids. And the kids of course are tomorrows world. Let us
> hope they leav=
e it better than they found it. I know well enough that
> they could if the=
y tried; for we are the stuff that dreams are made on,
> and also the stuff=
 to make them happen for real. A dream is no good
> unless you do something=
 effective with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I am Cockney from the slums of London by=
 the way; but I have lived
> on and around Exmoor for over  fifty years. St=
ill looking for Lorna
> Doone dammit.
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Richardson.
>




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From: "rwr" 
Subject: I am nearing 21
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I am nearing 21



[ I'm nearing 21 :) ]  Wow! I remember it well. I got m=
arried on my 20th
Birthday and the first of the five popped up ten months l=
ate :- )  She
is over fifty now =96 now that sure make you feel old and kna=
ckered eh
:- )  Nahh, not really. My youngest is only eighteen and is alrea=
dy
beating me up for not behaving myself proper like wot she does =96 and
s=
ome of them know all the answers don't they :- ) Oh I do love kids
!



Wel=
l, what do you want to do with your life?  Don't let anybody hold
you back =
or grind you down, there are some scum-bags and sad-sacks out
there you kno=
w.  I think we call them the walking dead don't we :- )



Merlin of Exmoor=
 =96 so dubbed by Yanks many years ago.





--- In SilmarillionWritersGuil=
d@yahoogroups.com, "nav_joyi"
 wrote:
>
> I'm nearing 21 :) S=
o I can certainly imagine how it must have been to
you feel the youngest of=
 the lot :D You have a point about creative
equals than age grouping. While=
 it is flattering that you consider me a
peer in that manner, I must say th=
at you are a natural poet and that
words are your craft. I consider it a pr=
ivilege to know people like you
on SWG and to read your lovingly woven work=
s. Keep it going :)
>
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Da=
wn Felagund
DawnFelagund@ wrote:
> >
> > Lol, I usually get told that I'm a=
 baby in this fandom! I started
SWG when I
> > was 23, and then *I* always =
felt like the youngest of the lot! :D
I'm 28 as
> > of Wednesday. In this g=
roup, we have quite an age range, from high
school on
> > up, and I don't t=
hink anyone is really an outlier.
> >
> > I tend to think of my fandom "pee=
rs" more as being intellectual and
creative
> > equals rather than people I=
 could have gone to high school with. So,
to me,
> > we're peers. :)
> >
> =
> Dawn
> >


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=
I am nearing 21=



 


[ I'm nearing 21 :) ]  Wow! I remember it well. I got married on my 20th Birthday and the first of the five popped up ten months late :- )  She is over fifty now =96 now that sure make you feel old an=
d knackered eh :- )  Nahh, not really. My youngest is onl=
y eighteen and is already beating me up for not behaving myself proper like=
 wot she does =96 and some of them know all the answers don't they :- ) Oh =
I do love kids !


 


Well, what do you want to do with your life?  Don't let=
 anybody hold you back or grind you down, there are some scum-bags and sad-=
sacks out there you know.  I think we call them the walki=
ng dead don't we :- )


 


Merlin =
of Exmoor =96 so dubbed by Yanks many years ago.


 


 

--- In SilmarillionWriter=
sGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav_joyi"  wrote:
>
&=
gt; I'm nearing 21 :) So I can certainly imagine how it must have been to y=
ou feel the youngest of the lot :D You have a point about creative equals t=
han age grouping. While it is flattering that you consider me a peer in tha=
t manner, I must say that you are a natural poet and that words are your cr=
aft. I consider it a privilege to know people like you on SWG and to read y=
our lovingly woven works. Keep it going :)
> 
> --- In Silmaril=
lionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@ wrote:
>=
; >
> > Lol, I usually get told that I'm a baby in this fandom!=
 I started SWG when I
> > was 23, and then *I* always felt like th=
e youngest of the lot! :D I'm 28 as
> > of Wednesday. In this grou=
p, we have quite an age range, from high school on
> > up, and I d=
on't think anyone is really an outlier.
> > 
> > I tend t=
o think of my fandom "peers" more as being intellectual and creative
>=
; > equals rather than people I could have gone to high school with. So,=
 to me,
> > we're peers. :)
> > 
> > Dawn
>=
; > 


--2-4867393353-0979431063=:3--


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Thank you for the welcome.  You mention [You are old only when you think
y=
ou are;) ]  Well, nice though that sentiment is, it is not strictly
true yo=
u know :- )  You are old when you have been here a long time :- )
You are o=
ld when the policemen/ladies are your friends grandchildren.
However, there=
 is truth in the attitude side of it, ones attitude to
life and how one liv=
es it. Funnily enough I have only just written to
some mates on that topic =
and the document is still up on the start menu
of the computer, so I may as=
 well cut and past it here in reference to
your fascinating comment=85



T=
he Happy Chappy Quest.



If the question is asked to most people as to wha=
t they seek for, all
those whom you meet on the street every day of your li=
fe, then by far
what the majority of them will answer is that they are seek=
ing to be
happy. Well, who the hell wants to be miserable :- ) But of cours=
e there
are a zillion and one things that can make us frigging miserable. A=
 boil
on the arse is not a bundle of fun I would imagine =96 not talking
fr=
om experience on that one :- )  I don't mind a boil on somebody
else's arse=
 too much, so long as it aint on my arse; so nothing
against boils as such.=
 But if I knew how to cure it, other than sticking
a pin in it and squeezin=
g it out, then I would be happy to cure it for
them.  Or one could sit down=
 quick on a hard place, that might do it :-
) I remember once tying a bit o=
f string to a door knob and the other end
around a tooth, and then slamming=
 the door. But the door knob came off
:- )  So, it was a trip to the dentis=
t after all, and they made me happy
again.



But if they answer that way t=
hen the question arises as to what is that
makes them happy which seems to =
be missing by virtue of them wanting to
be happy.  Why aint they happy now?=




The other quest of course is the search for the big WHAT, WHY and HOW,
=
of life, existence, and everything.  Assuming they found all that then
woul=
d it make them any happier?  Well, I sure have not found everything
so I ca=
nnot answer that one. True, I did come to find much in the way of
those dee=
p mystical things. But did it make me any happier?  Nope;
because I was alr=
eady happy enough. It sure made me more aware of many
things; but it had no=
 effect on my daily happiness quota.



So, what makes me happy?  Hard to s=
ay really, but just about everything
does; and none more so that simply wak=
ing up in the morning and finding
myself surrounded by extant things which =
I can throw myself into and get
on with stuff.  What more does one want or =
need, it is all there. I
personally was exactly the same as kid before I ha=
d learned anything at
all. Sure, I want to change the world =96 but I don't=
 want to
destroy it, or anybody else for that matter :- )



For a while th=
e world was there, and I enjoyed it and was happy. Then
for a while the wor=
ld was not there, I did not enjoy that bit much until
it culminated in the =
end of the journey to where it was going, and that
was good too, and I was =
happy there. And then the world came back again,
and I was happy enough the=
re again too.  Then one day the combination of
the union of that inner with=
 the outer came about, and I was there
living that, and that as utterly fan=
tastic, and I was happy. But then it
all calmed down and got back to more o=
r les normal daily life again, but
with a few additions to sensory enhancem=
ent, and I am happy there too.
And that is the sum of t up to now. Will I b=
e happy tomorrow?  I
don't know, but I was happy yesterday and I am happy t=
oday, so who
cares. It aint what MIGHT be, it is what was and what IS NOW t=
hat is
extant and real. Ones Existential stance, disposition, attitude, and=

viewpoint amid  being a part of the greater whole =96 and whatever
that is=
. There is a tree, here is me, grab the day, for it will never
come back ag=
ain.



Or as a young lady in my new novel said to her young man =85..



T=
hou art the greatest thing that be

So wilt thou share thy life with me?

I=
 have nought so very grand,

Just my head, my heart, my hand.

For want of =
something fine to say

Other than with you I'll stay

For that it where my =
heart lays, true;

To spend my life long days, with you.

So there my love,=
 I've let you know,

And you must choose, to come, or go.

I cannot make th=
at choice for you

For your heart must be just as true.

And only you can k=
now that dear,

But if you want me, I am here.







Dick Richardson.




=
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav_joyi"
 =
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> It is a very nice, cosy place to be. I think those who l=
ove Tolkien,
and love the Silmarillion the most among his works, are people=
 who share
a passion for knights, legends and ladies.
>
> I have also been =
something of a writer for the last forty years =96
> > not by choice really=
 but having been asked to write =96 what a
cheek
> > eh :- )
>
> I wonder w=
hat that would mean?
>
> You are old only when you think you are;)
>
> Welc=
ome aboard,
> jdav.
>



--0-4605633117-3635825583=:3
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Thank you for the welcome.&n=
bsp; You mention [You a=
re old only when you think you are;) ]  Well, n=
ice though that sentiment is, it is not strictly true you know :- )&n=
bsp; You are old when you have been here a long time :- ) =
; You are old when the policemen/ladies are your friends grandchildr=
en. However, there is truth in the attitude side of it, ones attitude to li=
fe and how one lives it. Funnily enough I have only just written to some ma=
tes on that topic and the document is still up on the start menu of the com=
puter, so I may as well cut and past it here in reference to your fascinati=
ng comment=85


 


The Happy Chappy Quest.<=
/SPAN>


 


If the question is asked to most people as to what they seek for,=
 all those whom you meet on the street every day of your life, then by far =
what the majority of them will answer is that they are seeking to be happy.=
 Well, who the hell wants to be miserable :- ) But of course there are a zi=
llion and one things that can make us frigging miserable. A boil on the ars=
e is not a bundle of fun I would imagine =96 not talking from experience on=
 that one :- )  I don't mind a boil on somebody else's ar=
se too much, so long as it aint on my arse; so nothing against boils as suc=
h. But if I knew how to cure it, other than sticking a pin in it and squeez=
ing it out, then I would be happy to cure it for them.  O=
r one could sit down quick on a hard place, that might do it :- ) I remembe=
r once tying a bit of string to a door knob and the other end around a toot=
h, and then slamming the door. But the door knob came off :- )  =
So, it was a trip to the dentist after all, and they made me happy a=
gain.


 


But =
if they answer that way then the question arises as to what is that makes t=
hem happy which seems to be missing by virtue of them wanting to be happy.<=
SPAN>  Why aint they happy now? 


 

The other quest of course is the search fo=
r the big WHAT, WHY and HOW, of life, existence, and everything. =
; Assuming they found all that then would it make them any happier?<=
SPAN>  Well, I sure have not found everything so I cannot answe=
r that one. True, I did come to find much in the way of those deep mystical=
 things. But did it make me any happier?  Nope; because I=
 was already happy enough. It sure made me more aware of many things; but i=
t had no effect on my daily happiness quota.


 

So, what makes me happy?  Hard to say really, but just about everything does; and none more so that=
 simply waking up in the morning and finding myself surrounded by extant th=
ings which I can throw myself into and get on with stuff.  What more does one want or need, it is all there. I personally was exactl=
y the same as kid before I had learned anything at all. Sure, I want to cha=
nge the world =96 but I don't want to destroy it, or anybody else for that =
matter :- ) 


&=
nbsp;


For a while the world was there, and I enjoyed it and was happy. Then for =
a while the world was not there, I did not enjoy that bit much until it cul=
minated in the end of the journey to where it was going, and that was good =
too, and I was happy there. And then the world came back again, and I was h=
appy enough there again too.  Then one day the combinatio=
n of the union of that inner with the outer came about, and I was there liv=
ing that, and that as utterly fantastic, and I was happy. But then it all c=
almed down and got back to more or les normal daily life again, but with a =
few additions to sensory enhancement, and I am happy there too. And that is=
 the sum of t up to now. Will I be happy tomorrow?  I don=
't know, but I was happy yesterday and I am happy today, so who cares. It a=
int what MIGHT be, it is what was and what IS NOW that is extant and real. =
Ones Existential stance, disposition, attitude, and viewpoint amid&nb=
sp; being a part of the greater whole =96 and whatever that is. Ther=
e is a tree, here is me, grab the day, for it will never come back again.


 =



Or as a you=
ng lady in my new novel said to her young man =85..


 


Thou art the greatest thing that be


So wilt thou share thy life w=
ith me?


I have nought so ver=
y grand,



For want of so=
mething fine to say


Other th=
an with you I'll stay


For =
that it where my heart lays, true;


To spend my life long days, with you.


So there my love, I've let you know,


And you must choose, to come, or go.


I cannot make that choice for you=



For your heart must be just as tru=
e.


And only you can know tha=
t dear,


But if you want me, =
I am here.






 


Dick Richardson.


 <=
/SPAN>



--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav_joyi" <=
;nav_joyi@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> It is a very =
nice, cosy place to be. I think those who love Tolkien, and love the Silmar=
illion the most among his works, are people who share a passion for knights=
, legends and ladies. 
> 
> I have also been something of a wri=
ter for the last forty years =96
> > not by choice really but havi=
ng been asked to write =96 what a cheek
> > eh :- ) 
> 
&=
gt; I wonder what that would mean? 
> 
> You are old only when =
you think you are;)
> 
> Welcome aboard,
> jdav.
> =



--0-4605633117-3635825583=:3--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "nav_joyi" 
Subject: Re: I am nearing 21
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=kuZDkDAoyq_7XJSFYUCXBJ5fWs6dVHsVndwfyaJ5UFVYtkc
X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi

Oops, I shouldn't have admitted to that, I think! 

I still have some way t=
o go before I get there (21, that is). 50+ to 18 is quite the range! Large =
families overwhelm me slightly :)

 Well, what do you want to do with your =
life?  Don't let anybody hold
> you back or grind you down, there are some =
scum-bags and sad-sacks out
> there you know.  I think we call them the wal=
king dead don't we :- )
> 

I am afraid that there are too many of those wa=
lking dead in my life, just like everybody else probably has. But Tolkien a=
nd writing is a beautiful distraction and for the rest of the time, I have =
robots, signals and mathematics to keep me fully occupied.

Jdav.

(wonderi=
ng whatever you did to be called the Merlin of Exmoor)

--- In Silmarillion=
WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rwr"  wrote:
>
> 
> I a=
m nearing 21
> 
> 
> 
> [ I'm nearing 21 :) ]  Wow! I remember it well. I g=
ot married on my 20th
> Birthday and the first of the five popped up ten mo=
nths late :- )  She
> is over fifty now =96 now that sure make you feel old=
 and knackered eh
> :- )  Nahh, not really. My youngest is only eighteen an=
d is already
> beating me up for not behaving myself proper like wot she do=
es =96 and
> some of them know all the answers don't they :- ) Oh I do love=
 kids
> !
> 
> 
> 
> Well, what do you want to do with your life?  Don't le=
t anybody hold
> you back or grind you down, there are some scum-bags and s=
ad-sacks out
> there you know.  I think we call them the walking dead don't=
 we :- )
> 
> 
> 
> Merlin of Exmoor =96 so dubbed by Yanks many years ago.=

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav_joy=
i"
>  wrote:
> >
> > I'm nearing 21 :) So I can certainly imagin=
e how it must have been to
> you feel the youngest of the lot :D You have a=
 point about creative
> equals than age grouping. While it is flattering th=
at you consider me a
> peer in that manner, I must say that you are a natur=
al poet and that
> words are your craft. I consider it a privilege to know =
people like you
> on SWG and to read your lovingly woven works. Keep it goi=
ng :)
> >
> > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagun=
d
> DawnFelagund@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Lol, I usually get told that I'm a bab=
y in this fandom! I started
> SWG when I
> > > was 23, and then *I* always =
felt like the youngest of the lot! :D
> I'm 28 as
> > > of Wednesday. In th=
is group, we have quite an age range, from high
> school on
> > > up, and I=
 don't think anyone is really an outlier.
> > >
> > > I tend to think of my=
 fandom "peers" more as being intellectual and
> creative
> > > equals rath=
er than people I could have gone to high school with. So,
> to me,
> > > we=
're peers. :)
> > >
> > > Dawn
> > >
>




From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "nav_joyi" 
Subject: Re: Hello,
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=2jYb1MeUu6TbnN6L3RdSQPaSlrzce3NUuGmDvvm3miZOwfI
X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi

What I said, I suppose it is true in an emotional way? It is a very fascina=
ting read. Whatever inspired it?

The boil example: there are slashers arou=
nd here, including me, who could suggest interesting ways to cure it;) But =
it is not fun and I get your point.

Your tooth must have been calcium-high=
 :D

The metaphysical aspect - something that kayayoga and all the similar =
practices help to achieve - cannot be counted out entirely, I feel. I was b=
rought up in a tradition that embraced the nature and the elements. There a=
re days when such practices and self-introspection can help make my day hap=
pier. Personally. 



Sure, I want to change the world =96 but I don't want=
 to
> destroy it, or anybody else for that matter :- )
> 



That is a beau=
tiful line. But I would just make an exception for the stuffy professor who=
 always insists on awarding me the lowest internals ;)




 There is a tree=
, here is me, grab the day, for it will never
> come back again.




That i=
s again true. Once more, I wonder what inspired the article.

I get pulled =
very easily into such discussions. I wonder if Dawn or the mods would mind =
this debate. I don't remember the last time there was a philosophy thread a=
round here, and then again, I am too laggardly in keeping up with group act=
ivities and may have missed things.

          And you must choose, to come=
, or go.
          > 
        > I cannot make that choice for you

*sighs* =
That is just right. It is often the case that people make choices for other=
s and make everyone unhappy. And nobody can or will do anything to change t=
he resulting situation.

jdav.


-- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups=
.com, "rwr"  wrote:
>
> 
> Thank you for the welcome. =
 You mention [You are old only when you think
> you are;) ]  Well, nice tho=
ugh that sentiment is, it is not strictly
> true you know :- )  You are old=
 when you have been here a long time :- )
> You are old when the policemen/=
ladies are your friends grandchildren.
> However, there is truth in the att=
itude side of it, ones attitude to
> life and how one lives it. Funnily eno=
ugh I have only just written to
> some mates on that topic and the document=
 is still up on the start menu
> of the computer, so I may as well cut and =
past it here in reference to
> your fascinating comment=85
> 
> 
> 
> The H=
appy Chappy Quest.
> 
> 
> 
> If the question is asked to most people as to=
 what they seek for, all
> those whom you meet on the street every day of y=
our life, then by far
> what the majority of them will answer is that they =
are seeking to be
> happy. Well, who the hell wants to be miserable :- ) Bu=
t of course there
> are a zillion and one things that can make us frigging =
miserable. A boil
> on the arse is not a bundle of fun I would imagine =96 =
not talking
> from experience on that one :- )  I don't mind a boil on some=
body
> else's arse too much, so long as it aint on my arse; so nothing
> ag=
ainst boils as such. But if I knew how to cure it, other than sticking
> a =
pin in it and squeezing it out, then I would be happy to cure it for
> them=
.  Or one could sit down quick on a hard place, that might do it :-
> ) I r=
emember once tying a bit of string to a door knob and the other end
> aroun=
d a tooth, and then slamming the door. But the door knob came off
> :- )  S=
o, it was a trip to the dentist after all, and they made me happy
> again.
=
> 
> 
> 
> But if they answer that way then the question arises as to what =
is that
> makes them happy which seems to be missing by virtue of them want=
ing to
> be happy.  Why aint they happy now?
> 
> 
> 
> The other quest of =
course is the search for the big WHAT, WHY and HOW,
> of life, existence, a=
nd everything.  Assuming they found all that then
> would it make them any =
happier?  Well, I sure have not found everything
> so I cannot answer that =
one. True, I did come to find much in the way of
> those deep mystical thin=
gs. But did it make me any happier?  Nope;
> because I was already happy en=
ough. It sure made me more aware of many
> things; but it had no effect on =
my daily happiness quota.
> 
> 
> 
> So, what makes me happy?  Hard to say =
really, but just about everything
> does; and none more so that simply waki=
ng up in the morning and finding
> myself surrounded by extant things which=
 I can throw myself into and get
> on with stuff.  What more does one want =
or need, it is all there. I
> personally was exactly the same as kid before=
 I had learned anything at
> all. Sure, I want to change the world =96 but =
I don't want to
> destroy it, or anybody else for that matter :- )
> 
> 
> =

> For a while the world was there, and I enjoyed it and was happy. Then
> =
for a while the world was not there, I did not enjoy that bit much until
> =
it culminated in the end of the journey to where it was going, and that
> w=
as good too, and I was happy there. And then the world came back again,
> a=
nd I was happy enough there again too.  Then one day the combination of
> t=
he union of that inner with the outer came about, and I was there
> living =
that, and that as utterly fantastic, and I was happy. But then it
> all cal=
med down and got back to more or les normal daily life again, but
> with a =
few additions to sensory enhancement, and I am happy there too.
> And that =
is the sum of t up to now. Will I be happy tomorrow?  I
> don't know, but I=
 was happy yesterday and I am happy today, so who
> cares. It aint what MIG=
HT be, it is what was and what IS NOW that is
> extant and real. Ones Exist=
ential stance, disposition, attitude, and
> viewpoint amid  being a part of=
 the greater whole =96 and whatever
> that is. There is a tree, here is me,=
 grab the day, for it will never
> come back again.
> 
> 
> 
> Or as a youn=
g lady in my new novel said to her young man =85..
> 
> 
> 
> Thou art the =
greatest thing that be
> 
> So wilt thou share thy life with me?
> 
> I hav=
e nought so very grand,
> 
> Just my head, my heart, my hand.
> 
> For want=
 of something fine to say
> 
> Other than with you I'll stay
> 
> For that =
it where my heart lays, true;
> 
> To spend my life long days, with you.
> =

> So there my love, I've let you know,
> 
> And you must choose, to come, =
or go.
> 
> I cannot make that choice for you
> 
> For your heart must be j=
ust as true.
> 
> And only you can know that dear,
> 
> But if you want me,=
 I am here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Richardson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Si=
lmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav_joyi"
>  wrote:
> >=

> > Hi,
> >
> > It is a very nice, cosy place to be. I think those who lov=
e Tolkien,
> and love the Silmarillion the most among his works, are people=
 who share
> a passion for knights, legends and ladies.
> >
> > I have also=
 been something of a writer for the last forty years =96
> > > not by choic=
e really but having been asked to write =96 what a
> cheek
> > > eh :- )
> =
>
> > I wonder what that would mean?
> >
> > You are old only when you thin=
k you are;)
> >
> > Welcome aboard,
> > jdav.
> >
>




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From: "nav_joyi" 
Subject: Re: Discussion questions
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=sBOzd96qOS2nfTx-pjpYApTRsa3Mmig3LSvQRl7bTzsxfQ4
X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi

Hi Ellie,

This is a fascinating post. I don't think I can make a coherent =
answer since I am drawn to too many characters. But I will just restrict my=
self to one.

                              Maedhros

The first time I read=
 about Maedhros, it was 3-4 years ago, when I was still at high school with=
 The Abridged Silmarillion as a supplementary reader. I remember I had wond=
ered why he was so tall. Then I came to the science streams and forgot all =
about him.

Later, after coming to Tolkien fanfiction, I came across a desc=
ription of Maedhros that ran like 'the red haired brunette with waist lengt=
h copper curls...' The 'hairy' description made me splutter over my coffee.=
 I knew I had to write my version then;) And so I did, and still do. 

I ne=
ed to be taken to Freud to deprogramme my brain from the Maedhros addiction=
. 25 stories with him in a single framework and I still am not rid of the M=
aedhros muse. Not good. Not good at all.

I suppose it is the fact that The=
 Silmarillion allows you to build your own imaginary world within its bound=
aries so easily that makes us want to write their tales. It is less canon b=
ound and relatively untouched? And it is fun :D





--- In SilmarillionWri=
tersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Ellie"  wrote:
>
> Who are your f=
avorite characters to write? What is it that draws you to these characters?=
  What did they do or what did Tolkien say about them that inspired your mu=
se? What is it about them that compels you to tell their stories?
> 
> 
> E=
llie
>




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Subject: Re: Hello,
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X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rwr"  wrote:

> Thank you for letting me aboard your merry ship. It seems like =
a nice
> happy group. 

You're most welcome! And ... welcome to the group! =
We are indeed a friendly lot here for the most part. On behalf of the mods,=
 we're glad you've decided to join us. :)

> I was curios really to find ou=
t what you were about and
> why. My wife and many of my friends around the =
world are big Tolkien
> fans, and needless to say I have been made to read =
a good bit of it and
> also to watch the movies et al :- )  

I had to chuc=
kle at this because my husband in reading the Silm for the first time right=
 now. He's started it several times but is a grad student and would often g=
et sidetracked or, after spending the day at his books, just wasn't in the =
mood for more. Of course, I had no part in persuading him to give it a try =
again ... 8^)

> And of course many of them are also
> into other legends s=
uch as the Arthurian Grail hunt and the days of
> Knights, Ladies, Castles =
and Wizards and Chivalry, etc. It must be a
> deep seated subconscious psyc=
hic archetype.

Certainly! I'm a medieval re-creationist, for example; I re=
ad Middle English poetry for fun and love the old myths, legends, and stori=
es. There's certainly a good bit of overlap.

> But one of
> the fun things=
 about fiction (and which most people seem to read these
> days anyway) is =
that one can put bits of fact into it. Hence
> FACT-in-FICTION, as opposed =
to pure fantasy. So, it can be useful.

Tolkien, in a way, embodies this id=
ea. Despite the fact that he wrote "fantasy"--some would say established th=
e modern fantasy genre into mainstream literature--he didn't view that as a=
 license to toss off completely the fetters of reality and was very concern=
ed that his secondary world conform to the reality of our primary one whene=
ver possible. And I think that more than a few of us can relate that our ow=
n forays into the world of "fantasy" often require a good bit of research i=
nto how things work in our own world! :)

> Having a quick read around I ge=
t the feeling that there are many young
> people here (by that I mean under=
 seventy :- )

Yes, we have quite an age range here! But, to the best of my=
 knowledge, most everyone is indeed under seventy. :)

Again, welcome!

All=
 the best,

Dawn



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From: "nav_joyi" 
Subject: Re: Discussion questions
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=0ISpuKRfITF2rdD-xugYXTIWPXJWLJOSD73qyjb758xrIGU
X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi

> I need to be taken to Freud to deprogramme my brain..... 

It is deprogra=
m, of course. Not deprogramme. I am just half awake.
jdav.


--- In Silmari=
llionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav_joyi"  wrote:
>
> Hi =
Ellie,
> 
> This is a fascinating post. I don't think I can make a coherent=
 answer since I am drawn to too many characters. But I will just restrict m=
yself to one.
> 
>                               Maedhros
> 
> The first ti=
me I read about Maedhros, it was 3-4 years ago, when I was still at high sc=
hool with The Abridged Silmarillion as a supplementary reader. I remember I=
 had wondered why he was so tall. Then I came to the science streams and fo=
rgot all about him.
> 
> Later, after coming to Tolkien fanfiction, I came =
across a description of Maedhros that ran like 'the red haired brunette wit=
h waist length copper curls...' The 'hairy' description made me splutter ov=
er my coffee. I knew I had to write my version then;) And so I did, and sti=
ll do. 
> 
> I need to be taken to Freud to deprogramme my brain from the M=
aedhros addiction. 25 stories with him in a single framework and I still am=
 not rid of the Maedhros muse. Not good. Not good at all.
> 
> I suppose it=
 is the fact that The Silmarillion allows you to build your own imaginary w=
orld within its boundaries so easily that makes us want to write their tale=
s. It is less canon bound and relatively untouched? And it is fun :D
> 
> 
=
> 
> 
> 
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Ellie"  wrote:
> >
> > Who are your favorite characters to write? What is it t=
hat draws you to these characters?  What did they do or what did Tolkien sa=
y about them that inspired your muse? What is it about them that compels yo=
u to tell their stories?
> > 
> > 
> > Ellie
> >
>




From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav_joyi"  =
wrote:
> I get pulled very easily into such discussions. I wonder if Dawn o=
r the mods would mind this debate. I don't remember the last time there was=
 a philosophy thread around here, and then again, I am too laggardly in kee=
ping up with group activities and may have missed things.
>

Nope, we mind =
it not one bit! We only ask that if discussions become heated that they rem=
ain civil, and if a topic veers off-topic from Tolkien or writing, then ple=
ase edit the subject line to add an "OT."

Otherwise, have fun! :)

Dawn



From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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Subject: Re: Hello,
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X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi


> I had to chuckle at this because my husband in reading the Silm for the =
first time right now. He's started it several times but is a grad student a=
nd would often get sidetracked or, after spending the day at his books, jus=
t wasn't in the mood for more. Of course, I had no part in persuading him t=
o give it a try again ... 8^)

Of course, you had absolutely *no* part : sn=
iggers
jdav.

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn F"  wrote:
>
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com,=
 "rwr"  wrote:
> 
> > Thank you for letting me aboard you=
r merry ship. It seems like a nice
> > happy group. 
> 
> You're most welco=
me! And ... welcome to the group! We are indeed a friendly lot here for the=
 most part. On behalf of the mods, we're glad you've decided to join us. :)=

> 
> > I was curios really to find out what you were about and
> > why. My=
 wife and many of my friends around the world are big Tolkien
> > fans, and=
 needless to say I have been made to read a good bit of it and
> > also to =
watch the movies et al :- )  
> 
> I had to chuckle at this because my husb=
and in reading the Silm for the first time right now. He's started it sever=
al times but is a grad student and would often get sidetracked or, after sp=
ending the day at his books, just wasn't in the mood for more. Of course, I=
 had no part in persuading him to give it a try again ... 8^)
> 
> > And of=
 course many of them are also
> > into other legends such as the Arthurian =
Grail hunt and the days of
> > Knights, Ladies, Castles and Wizards and Chi=
valry, etc. It must be a
> > deep seated subconscious psychic archetype.
> =

> Certainly! I'm a medieval re-creationist, for example; I read Middle Eng=
lish poetry for fun and love the old myths, legends, and stories. There's c=
ertainly a good bit of overlap.
> 
> > But one of
> > the fun things about =
fiction (and which most people seem to read these
> > days anyway) is that =
one can put bits of fact into it. Hence
> > FACT-in-FICTION, as opposed to =
pure fantasy. So, it can be useful.
> 
> Tolkien, in a way, embodies this i=
dea. Despite the fact that he wrote "fantasy"--some would say established t=
he modern fantasy genre into mainstream literature--he didn't view that as =
a license to toss off completely the fetters of reality and was very concer=
ned that his secondary world conform to the reality of our primary one when=
ever possible. And I think that more than a few of us can relate that our o=
wn forays into the world of "fantasy" often require a good bit of research =
into how things work in our own world! :)
> 
> > Having a quick read around=
 I get the feeling that there are many young
> > people here (by that I mea=
n under seventy :- )
> 
> Yes, we have quite an age range here! But, to the=
 best of my knowledge, most everyone is indeed under seventy. :)
> 
> Again=
, welcome!
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Dawn
>




From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "nav_joyi" 
Subject: Re: Hello,
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=gS4bGhg5pCGDVxG_FHrpBWo3SgzT1wWX9gbh1VNJV1BpNQc
X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi

You will tell me if it becomes OT, please?

And I was going through the fil=
es section. HoME in its entirety is not there, right? Is there a reason for=
 that? Some copyright issue or such?

It's only that I wouldn't mind upload=
ing my copy of the thing if it doesn't violate copyrights.
jdav.

--- In Si=
lmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn F"  wrote:
=
>
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav_joyi" =
 wrote:
> > I get pulled very easily into such discussions. I wonder if Daw=
n or the mods would mind this debate. I don't remember the last time there =
was a philosophy thread around here, and then again, I am too laggardly in =
keeping up with group activities and may have missed things.
> >
> 
> Nope,=
 we mind it not one bit! We only ask that if discussions become heated that=
 they remain civil, and if a topic veers off-topic from Tolkien or writing,=
 then please edit the subject line to add an "OT."
> 
> Otherwise, have fun=
! :)
> 
> Dawn
>




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Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Hello,
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On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 12:47 PM, nav_joyi  wrote:

>  And I was going through the files section. HoME in its entirety is not
> there, right? Is there a reason for that? Some copyright issue or such?
>

Yep, it's a copyright issue. The Files section is members-only, but since we
approve anyone for membership who doesn't look like a spammer, then it's
open enough to the public that I didn't think the chance was worth taking. I
have digital copies of all of the books and am happy to share the bounty
with anyone who wants them for research. (Keyword searches making those
almost two dozen books *so* less formidable when seeking out that *one
line*that you know is there! :)

Thank you for the offer, JDE!

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

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Just my head, my he=
art, my hand.
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 12:47 PM, nav_joyi <nav_joyi@yahoo.com> wrote:













 And I was going through the files section. HoME in its entirety =
is not there, right? Is there a reason for that? Some copyright issue or su=
ch?



Yep, it's a copyright issue. The Fi=
les section is members-only, but since we approve anyone for membership who=
 doesn't look like a spammer, then it's open enough to the public t=
hat I didn't think the chance was worth taking. I have digital copies o=
f all of the books and am happy to share the bounty with anyone who wants t=
hem for research. (Keyword searches making those almost two dozen books =
so less formidable when seeking out that one line that you know =
is there! :)


Thank you for the offer, JDE!

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwri=
tersguild.org



--00504502c78e5bf08004749209b3--


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From: "rwr" 
Subject: OT.  How come Merlin?
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How come Merlin?



[wondering whatever you did to be called the Merlin of=
 Exmoor ]



Well young ma'am maybe better not tell it, tis a long story an=
d it
involves oh so much, and much of which is not too pleasant. I came her=
e
to learn about your stuff and your interests and that which blows your
sk=
irt up, so to speak. Maybe best that you stick with fiction; or for
now at =
least. But I tell you in all truth, real reality is far more
mysterious, am=
azing, and all consuming. But sufficient for the day that
you land in it; w=
ith a bang. Reams of death treats for writing is a
reasonable bang and blow=
s the cobwebs of la-la land away soon enough.
But I am still here and they =
aint, so keep smiling :- )



So; who is this Maedhros geezer whom you ment=
ion. Tell me all about it.



Merlin






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=
How come Merlin=
?


<=
SPAN lang=3D"EN-GB"> <=
o>


[=
wondering whatever you did to be call=
ed the Merlin of Exmoor ]


 


Well young ma'am maybe better not tell it, tis a=
 long story and it involves oh so much, and much of which is not too pleasa=
nt. I came here to learn about your stuff and your interests and that which=
 blows your skirt up, so to speak. Maybe best that you stick with fiction; =
or for now at least. But I tell you in all truth, real reality is far more =
mysterious, amazing, and all consuming. But sufficient for the day that you=
 land in it; with a bang. Reams of death treats for writing is a reasonable=
 bang and blows the cobwebs of la-la land away soon enough. But I am still =
here and they aint, so keep smiling :- )


 

So; who is this M=
aedhros geezer whom you mention. Tell me all about it.

 =
;


Merlin


 =



 


--4-5268961932-1330931880=:1--


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From: "rwr" 
Subject: A Novel.
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A Novel.



I have created a Folder in the Files section called The Darsin=
ian
Inheritance. But I will not put anything in it unless it is OK to do so=
.
If not then simply delete the folder. But if it is OK I could put the
nov=
el which I wrote a short while back if anyone wished to read it and
perhaps=
 make comments and suggestions. Such could help with the next
one. It might=
 give some of you food for thought too. Cant tell you what
it is about alas=
, for that is a secret. But keep in mind that I am no
novelist or fiction w=
riter and probably too old to learn now. I have
never written any fiction i=
n my life, so it seemed both strange and
hard. Writing about real stuff is =
one thing; but inventing it is another
ball-park :- )  However, there are b=
its in it which are true, not
fiction. But I will leave it to others to fin=
d out which is which.



Oh by the way, some guy in Bath, Maine, volunteere=
d to edit this work,
there still are just a few typos there. This guy was t=
he chief Engineer
on the most power American Nuke Sub. Some really odd type=
s do meet up in
real reality eh :- )



Merlin




--7-7519871023-8759979797=:6
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=
A Novel.=



 


I have created a Folder in the File=
s section called The Darsinian Inheritance. But I will not put anything in =
it unless it is OK to do so. If not then simply delete the folder. But if i=
t is OK I could put the novel which I wrote a short while back if anyone wi=
shed to read it and perhaps make comments and suggestions. Such could help =
with the next one. It might give some of you food for thought too. Cant tel=
l you what it is about alas, for that is a secret. But keep in mind that I =
am no novelist or fiction writer and probably too old to learn now. I have =
never written any fiction in my life, so it seemed both strange and hard. W=
riting about real stuff is one thing; but inventing it is another ball-park=
 :- )  However, there are bits in it which are true, not =
fiction. But I will leave it to others to find out which is which.


 


Oh by the way, some guy in Bath, Mai=
ne, volunteered to edit this work, there still are just a few typos there. =
This guy was the chief Engineer on the most power American Nuke Sub. Some r=
eally odd types do meet up in real reality eh :- )


 =



Merlin


 


--7-7519871023-8759979797=:6--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] A Novel.
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X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund


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Hi, Merlin,

Please feel free to upload your novel if you'd like! :)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--001636c5ad7725c9a5047492768f
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Hi, Merlin,

Please feel free to upload your novel if you'd like! :)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org


--001636c5ad7725c9a5047492768f--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the SilmarillionWritersGuild 
group.

  File        : /Merlin of Exmoor/01. Cover.doc 
  Uploaded by : dick.richardson@ymail.com  
  Description : Cover 

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/files/Merlin%20of%20Exmoor/01.%20Cover.doc 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,

dick.richardson@ymail.com 
 





From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "nav_joyi" 
Subject: Re: OT.  How come Merlin?
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=awJBkHjO5mKpSj0e799tbj6Lrugy69kpGLEFKqslZ2zGews
X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi

The wind blows my skirt up. It is a very naughty wind here. It blew the roo=
f of my dogs' kennels.

Maybe best that you stick with fiction; or for
> no=
w at least. But I tell you in all truth, real reality is far more
> mysteri=
ous, amazing, and all consuming.

It makes it all the more interesting. A b=
it like diving for corals or hiking? I love both. 


> But I am still here =
and they aint, so keep smiling :- )
> 

I am smiling. It is a very interest=
ing viewpoint that you have on oh-so-many things :)

The Maedhros geezer:

=
Oh, I could possible exceed the word count allowed for a message if I have =
to talk about him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maedhros. 

I love him beca=
use he is so flawed and that allows for so many interpretations(to me). I l=
ike to read and write(write within my limited abilities) dark stories that =
have him in pivotal roles. But to really, really *know* Maedhros, I close m=
y eyes and imagine a lonely form before a sunset, standing on the shore by =
a turbulent sea, waves lapping against his feet, blood-stained sword held l=
oose in one hand, and that tormented grey-eyes staring at the horizon with =
wistful hope. 

(Purple prose, and a whole passage of it. My morals are not=
 improving :D)







--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "rwr=
"  wrote:
>
> 
> How come Merlin?
> 
> 
> 
> [wonderin=
g whatever you did to be called the Merlin of Exmoor ]
> 
> 
> 
> Well youn=
g ma'am maybe better not tell it, tis a long story and it
> involves oh so =
much, and much of which is not too pleasant. I came here
> to learn about y=
our stuff and your interests and that which blows your
> skirt up, so to sp=
eak. Maybe best that you stick with fiction; or for
> now at least. But I t=
ell you in all truth, real reality is far more
> mysterious, amazing, and a=
ll consuming. But sufficient for the day that
> you land in it; with a bang=
. Reams of death treats for writing is a
> reasonable bang and blows the co=
bwebs of la-la land away soon enough.
> But I am still here and they aint, =
so keep smiling :- )
> 
> 
> 
> So; who is this Maedhros geezer whom you me=
ntion. Tell me all about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Merlin
>




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No, not quite like diving for corals or hiking :- ) That kind of stuff
is =
too tame to even bother to wake me up in the mornings young mate.



Well, =
many Ta's, I have now read just a wee bit about this Maedhros
Geezer, emm w=
ell, what can one say. Maybe I ought to read more. However,
I wonder if he =
could even hold a candle to Commander Richard Pendarvis
of the DSSN in the =
Acronian Federation. Now there is a geezer you should
meet; maybe you will =
one day ;- )  But eerr, errm, well, he sure aint no
pure white angel off th=
e top of the Yuletide tree. Watch this space and
batten down your skirts.

=


--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav_joyi"
 wrote:
>
> The wind blows my skirt up. It is a very naughty wind here. It=
 blew
the roof of my dogs' kennels.
>
> Maybe best that you stick with fict=
ion; or for
> > now at least. But I tell you in all truth, real reality is =
far more
> > mysterious, amazing, and all consuming.
>
> It makes it all th=
e more interesting. A bit like diving for corals or
hiking? I love both.
>
=
>
> > But I am still here and they aint, so keep smiling :- )
> >
>
> I am =
smiling. It is a very interesting viewpoint that you have on
oh-so-many thi=
ngs :)
>
> The Maedhros geezer:
>
> Oh, I could possible exceed the word co=
unt allowed for a message if I
have to talk about him. http://en.wikipedia.=
org/wiki/Maedhros.
>
> I love him because he is so flawed and that allows f=
or so many
interpretations(to me). I like to read and write(write within my=
 limited
abilities) dark stories that have him in pivotal roles. But to rea=
lly,
really *know* Maedhros, I close my eyes and imagine a lonely form befo=
re
a sunset, standing on the shore by a turbulent sea, waves lapping
agains=
t his feet, blood-stained sword held loose in one hand, and that
tormented =
grey-eyes staring at the horizon with wistful hope.
>
> (Purple prose, and =
a whole passage of it. My morals are not improving
:D)
>


--1-6722724541-2004067081=:6
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
No, not quite l=
ike diving for corals or hiking :- ) That kind of stuff is too tame to even=
 bother to wake me up in the mornings young mate.


 <=
/o>


Well, many Ta's, I have now read just a wee bit about =
this Maedhros Geezer, emm well, what can one say. Maybe I ought to read mor=
e. However, I wonder if he could even hold a candle to Commander Richard Pe=
ndarvis of the DSSN in the Acronian Federation. Now there is a geezer you s=
hould meet; maybe you will one day ;- )  But eerr, errm, =
well, he sure aint no pure white angel off the top of the Yuletide tree. Wa=
tch this space and batten down your skirts.


 
--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "nav_joyi"  wrote:
>
> The wind blows my skirt up. It is a very nau=
ghty wind here. It blew the roof of my dogs' kennels.
> 
> Mayb=
e best that you stick with fiction; or for
> > now at least. But I=
 tell you in all truth, real reality is far more
> > mysterious, a=
mazing, and all consuming.
> 
> It makes it all the more intere=
sting. A bit like diving for corals or hiking? I love both. 
> 
&g=
t; 
> > But I am still here and they aint, so keep smiling :- )> > 
> 
> I am smiling. It is a very interesting viewpoi=
nt that you have on oh-so-many things :)
> 
> The Maedhros geez=
er:
> 
> Oh, I could possible exceed the word count allowed for=
 a message if I have to talk about him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maedhr=
os. 
> 
> I love him because he is so flawed and that allows fo=
r so many interpretations(to me). I like to read and write(write within my =
limited abilities) dark stories that have him in pivotal roles. But to real=
ly, really *know* Maedhros, I close my eyes and imagine a lonely form befor=
e a sunset, standing on the shore by a turbulent sea, waves lapping against=
 his feet, blood-stained sword held loose in one hand, and that tormented g=
rey-eyes staring at the horizon with wistful hope. 
> 
> (Purpl=
e prose, and a whole passage of it. My morals are not improving :D)
>=
 


--1-6722724541-2004067081=:6--


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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the SilmarillionWritersGuild 
group.

  File        : /Merlin of Exmoor/13. Chapter 12.doc 
  Uploaded by : dick.richardson@ymail.com  
  Description : Chapter 12 

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dick.richardson@ymail.com 
 





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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the SilmarillionWritersGuild 
group.

  File        : /Merlin of Exmoor/17. Chapter 16.doc 
  Uploaded by : dick.richardson@ymail.com  
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dick.richardson@ymail.com 
 





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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
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  File        : /Merlin of Exmoor/38. Chapter 37.doc 
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Drama and Story Telling.



Being of the understanding that a story told o=
f facts within life is of
far more worth than a story told of fiction, does=
 not mean that a good
story told in fiction is of no value, for it plainly =
can be, and is in
so many cases. But how come?



Well, at the blunt end th=
en fiction can simply operate as entertainment,
and there is nought wrong w=
ith a little entertainment. However, that is
the very rank minimum it can d=
o. At the sharp end of fiction then it can
inspire a human being. It can gr=
ab one, move one, pull ones head, heart,
and guts around until they are mot=
ivated, inspired and enlivened. 
Affectation. `I got yer'; kind of thing. M=
an cannot live by food
and shelter alone, the mind of man needs experiences=
 and inspiration,
and the innate ability to be able then to do something wi=
th it. And it
contains all that.



Throw a little fact in with that fictio=
n and the reader or hearer of the
story can empathise with that, providing =
it is not pure way out fantasy.
For fiction, just like many other things in=
 life, such as music, chess,
art, love, to name but four, has the power to =
move. Does not the reader
or viewer of any drama latch on to a personality =
in there and lives it
with them, yelling to themselves, do this, do that, d=
on't do this
don't do that, etc. I have heard it said that one cannot get
i=
nvolved with movie as one can with a book; but that is nonsense, for
one ca=
n perhaps get even more involved with a character that way. So,
not having =
to imagine and picture the scenery does not detract from one
being involved=
 with the drama. It all works, and does what it does. It
can make you laugh=
, it can make you cry, it can make you think, and it
can make you do things=
. It is much like real life itself in that way is
it not. Sure, it is NOT t=
he real thing, but it can work like the real
thing and change people like t=
he real thing can; and that is real enough
and effective enough. A good sto=
ry can change the world of Man, because
it can change man; and it is humani=
ty that changes the world of Man. Let
us hope that it changes them for the =
better not the worse.






--5-9244609624-7682647008=:4
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Drama and Story Telling.

<=
P class=3D"MsoBodyText"> 


Being of the understanding that=
 a story told of facts within life is of far more worth than a story told o=
f fiction, does not mean that a good story told in fiction is of no value, =
for it plainly can be, and is in so many cases. But how come? 


 


Well, at the blunt end then fiction can s=
imply operate as entertainment, and there is nought wrong with a little ent=
ertainment. However, that is the very rank minimum it can do. At the sharp =
end of fiction then it can inspire a human being. It can grab one, move one=
, pull ones head, heart, and guts around until they are motivated, inspired=
 and enlivened.  Affectation. `I got yer'; kind of thing.=
 Man cannot live by food and shelter alone, the mind of man needs experienc=
es and inspiration, and the innate ability to be able then to do something =
with it. And it contains all that.


 


=
Throw a little fact in with that fiction and the reader or hearer of=
 the story can empathise with that, providing it is not pure way out fantas=
y. For fiction, just like many other things in life, such as music, chess, =
art, love, to name but four, has the power to move. Does not the reader or =
viewer of any drama latch on to a personality in there and lives it with th=
em, yelling to themselves, do this, do that, don't do this don't do that, e=
tc. I have heard it said that one cannot get involved with movie as one can=
 with a book; but that is nonsense, for one can perhaps get even more invol=
ved with a character that way. So, not having to imagine and picture the sc=
enery does not detract from one being involved with the drama. It all works=
, and does what it does. It can make you laugh, it can make you cry, it can=
 make you think, and it can make you do things. It is much like real life i=
tself in that way is it not. Sure, it is NOT the real thing, but it can wor=
k like the real thing and change people like the real thing can; and that i=
s real enough and effective enough. A good story can change the world of Ma=
n, because it can change man; and it is humanity that changes the world of =
Man. Let us hope that it changes them for the better not the worse. =



 


&nb=
sp;


--5-9244609624-7682647008=:4--


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From: "rwr" 
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To be, or not to be. That is not the question.

http://groups.yahoo.com/gr=
oup/New_Writers_Chat_Room/



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To be, or not to be. That is =
not the question.


http://groups.yahoo.com/gro=
up/New_Writers_Chat_Room/


--5-7435220158-2071018680=:3--


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From: "rwr" 
Subject: The first two chapters
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The first two chapters



The first two chapters of the new fiction novel =
E book =96 Quo Vadis
my Love (subtitled; The Graveyard Shift, Vexillum Rigi=
nta) are now up in
the files section of=85

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q=
uo_Vadis_my_Love/




as =
an on-line storage facility and free viewing. The project may take a
long t=
ime; and editing may well be done and bits may even be altered
slightly as =
time goes by.



rwr




--9-9956776572-1807988796=:1
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=
The first two c=
hapters


<=
FONT color=3D"#000000"> 


The first two chapter=
s of the new fiction novel E book =96 Quo Vadis my Love (subtitled; =
The Graveyard Shift, Vexillum Riginta) are now up in the file=
s section of=85


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Quo_Vadis_my_Love/

 


=
as an on-line storage facility and free viewing. The project may take a lon=
g time; and editing may well be done and bits may even be altered slightly =
as time goes by. 


 <=
/P>

rwr<=
/SPAN>


 


--9-9956776572-1807988796=:1--


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Well, not much activity here, so best be moving along. Good luck with
your=
 writing. Keep true to yourself and don't let them grind you
down. Keep smi=
ling.



Merlin






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Well, not much activity here, so best be movin=
g along. Good luck with your writing. Keep true to yourself and don't let t=
hem grind you down. Keep smiling.


=
 


Merlin


 


 


--9-1872261530-9035058047=:4--


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Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Well, not much activity here
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On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 12:48 AM, rwr  wrote:
> Well, not much activity here, so best be moving along. Good luck with your
writing. Keep true to yourself and don't let them grind you down. Keep
smiling.

Yep, we're in one of our quiet phases at the moment. Just let someone
mention the right hot-button topic ... ;)

Best of luck to you!

Dawn


>
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
>

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On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 12:48 AM, rwr <dick.richardson@ymail.com> wrot=
e:
> Well, not much activity here, so best be moving along. Good luck=
 with your writing. Keep true to yourself and don't let them grind you =
down. Keep smiling.






Yep, we'r=
e in one of our quiet phases at the moment. Just let someone mention the ri=
ght hot-button topic ... ;)


=C2=A0


Best of luck to yo=
u!


=C2=A0


Dawn


=C2=A0







-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/http://www.silmarilli=
onwritersguild.org




--00504502c6353daa1e0474e28aa5--


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--- On Thu, 1/10/09, Dawn Felagund  wrote:

> Yep, =
we're in one of our quiet phases at the moment. Just let someone 
> mention=
 the right hot-button topic ... ;)
=A0

The Noldor are clearly superior to =
the Sindar in every possible way.  

Discuss.

Send instant messages to you=
r online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 


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In a message dated 10/1/2009 1:13:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk writes:

The  Noldor are clearly superior to the Sindar in every possible way.  

Discuss.
Come on! What's to discuss about that? It is patently obvious on the  
surface that the Noldor are clearly superior to the Sindar--feckless tree  
huggers over the most brilliant intellects, artists, builders, and  craftsmen ever?






-------------------------------1254417637
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=

=




In a message date=
d 10/1/2009 1:13:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
il_perfido@yahoo.co.uk write=
s:


The 
  Noldor are clearly superior to t=
he Sindar in every possible way. 
  

Discuss.

Come on! What's to discuss about that? It is patently obvious on the 
su=
rface that the Noldor are clearly superior to the Sindar--feckless tree 
hu=
ggers over the most brilliant intellects, artists, builders, and 
craf=
tsmen ever?



 



 


-------------------------------1254417637--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Sindar vs. Noldor (was: Well, not much activity here)
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On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:20 PM,  wrote:
> Come on! What's to discuss about that? It is patently obvious on the
surface that the Noldor are clearly superior to the Sindar--feckless tree
huggers over the most brilliant intellects, artists, builders, and craftsmen
ever?

 As a feckless tree-hugger myself, I resemble that remark ... ;)

To play devil's advocate (because I am certainly guilty of paying far more
mind to the Noldor than the Sindar), I would agree that the Noldor
accomplished more, but they also had a lot more to work with. They did not
have to worry about defending their realm against attack. Presumably, they
had to worry less about meeting their basic needs in Aman than the Sindar
did in Middle-earth. This freed up more time for them to concentrate on
their arts.

The Noldor also often had the instruction of the Valar; being taught how to
mix different alloys by Aule, for example, takes far less time than learning
to mix them oneself. I don't know that this point is ever addressed in any
of the texts, but I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that they would
have also had more access to a greater variety of materials than the Sindar
would have. It certainly never seems as though Aule is short on what he
needs. Or, at the least, traveling to get them would be less perilous if one
doesn't have Morgoth as a close neighbor.

So I have to give credit to the Sindar for making the best possible use of
what they had. If they had gone to Aman--not the Noldor--perhaps the
situations would be reversed.

Dawn



-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

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On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:20 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
> =
Come on! What's to discuss about that? It is patently obvious on the su=
rface that the Noldor are clearly superior to the Sindar--feckless tree hug=
gers over the most brilliant intellects, artists, builders, and craftsmen e=
ver?








As a feckless tree-hugger myse=
lf, I resemble that remark ... ;)


=C2=A0


To play devi=
l's advocate (because I am certainly guilty of paying far more mind to =
the Noldor than the Sindar), I would agree that the Noldor accomplished mor=
e, but they also had a lot more to work with. They did not have to worry ab=
out defending their realm against attack. Presumably, they had to worry les=
s about meeting their basic needs in Aman than the Sindar did in Middle-ear=
th. This freed up more time for them to concentrate on their arts.


<=
div>=C2=A0


The Noldor also often had the instruction of the Vala=
r; being taught how to mix different alloys by Aule, for example, takes far=
 less time than learning to mix them oneself. I don't know that this po=
int is ever addressed in any of the texts, but I don't think it's a=
 stretch to suggest that they would have also had more access to a greater =
variety of materials than the Sindar would have. It certainly never seems a=
s though Aule is short on what he needs. Or, at the least, traveling to get=
 them would be less perilous if one doesn't have Morgoth as a close nei=
ghbor.



=C2=A0


So I have to give credit to the Sindar=
 for making the best possible use of what they had. If they had gone to Ama=
n--not the Noldor--perhaps the situations would be reversed.


=C2=
=A0


Dawn


=C2=A0


=C2=A0



--00504502ca6afd35900474e3ae93--


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Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Well, not much activity here
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I have to agree. But then again I think Feanor was just misunderstood. =3D)=






~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 
JRR T=
olkien
=A0




=A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- 
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
=B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0
=
=A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:-

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, =
heartofoshun@aol.com  wrote:


From: heartofoshun@aol=
.com 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Well, n=
ot much activity here
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Th=
ursday, October 1, 2009, 1:20 PM


=A0 




In a message dated 10/1/2009 1:=
13:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, il_perfido@yahoo. co.uk writes:
The Noldor =
are clearly superior to the Sindar in every possible way. 

Discuss.
Come o=
n! What's to discuss about that? It is patently obvious on the surface that=
 the Noldor are clearly superior to the Sindar--feckless tree huggers over =
the most brilliant intellects, artists, builders,=A0and craftsmen ever?

=
=A0

=A0















      
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I have to agree. But then again I think Feano=
r was just misunderstood. =3D)









~~**~~


I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=
  


JRR Tolkien
<=
/FONT>


 
=





=





 ..=B7*=B4=A8=
=A8))   -:=A6:- 
    &n=
bsp;   =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. <=
SPAN style=3D"COLOR: rgb(255,0,127); FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms">Alassante<=
/SPAN> .. =BA=B0
=
    -:=A6:- =
   ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-


--- On Thu, 10/1/09, heartofosh=
un@aol.com  wrote:



From: heartofoshun@aol.com 
Sub=
ject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Well, not much activity here
To: Si=
lmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, =
1:20 PM



 =
; 





In a message dated 10/1/2009 1:13:39 PM Easte=
rn Daylight Time, il_perfido@yahoo. co.uk writes:


The Noldor are clearly superior=
 to the Sindar in every possible way. 

Discuss.

=

Come on! What's to discuss about that? It is patently obvious on the s=
urface that the Noldor are clearly superior to the Sindar--feckless tree hu=
ggers over the most brilliant intellects, artists, builders, and craft=
smen ever?



 




 





      
--0-1409571360-1254422256=:65491--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: October 2009 Newsletter Posted!
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--0015174413387741fa0474ec7be9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi, all,

This will be brief, since it is very late in my part of the world for a girl
who has to get up for work tomorrow. :)

This month's newsletter has been posted. It can be found here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php

Not surprisingly, there is ... news! News from within and outside of SWG.
But, as usual, the newsletter has more to offer as well.

Oshun has written a biography this month on Nimloth, best known as the wife
of Dior. Oshun has studied the texts to glean all that she can about this
barely-sketched Sindarin queen. In "Linguistic Foolery" this month, Darth
Fingon takes on a quandary: "Sindarin" is a Quenya word. So what would the
different Elven clans call themselves in their own languages?

In our "Funnies" section, in Pandemonium's "Gothmog and Draugluin," li'l
Gothmog makes friends with his Dad's latest addition to Thangorodrim.
Whitewave also takes on the Character of the Month with the *Chibi* of the
Month, and we learn some interesting things about Dior's hobbies from his
wife Nimloth.

Beginning this month, members of the SWG archive can now comment on columns!
So if you like what you read or have a question for one of the authors,
please consider leaving a comment!

Enjoy the newsletter!

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0015174413387741fa0474ec7be9
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Hi, all,

This will be brief, since it is very late in my part of the=
 world for a girl who has to get up for work tomorrow. :)

This month=
's newsletter has been posted. It can be found here:

http://www.sil=
marillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php


Not surprisingly,=
 there is ... news! News from within and outside of SWG. But, as usual, the=
 newsletter has more to offer as well.

Oshun has written a biography=
 this month on Nimloth, best known as the wife of Dior. Oshun has studied t=
he texts to glean all that she can about this barely-sketched Sindarin quee=
n. In "Linguistic Foolery" this month, Darth Fingon takes on a qu=
andary: "Sindarin" is a Quenya word. So what would the different =
Elven clans call themselves in their own languages?


In our "Fu=
nnies" section, in Pandemonium's "Gothmog and Draugluin,"=
; li'l Gothmog makes friends with his Dad's latest addition to Than=
gorodrim. Whitewave also takes on the Character of the Month with the Ch=
ibi of the Month, and we learn some interesting things about Dior's=
 hobbies from his wife Nimloth.


Beginning this month, members of th=
e SWG archive can now comment on columns! So if you like what you read or h=
ave a question for one of the authors, please consider leaving a comment!
Enjoy the newsletter!


Dawn

-- 
~oOo~<=
br>Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org


--0015174413387741fa0474ec7be9--


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From: "Marta" 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Well, not much activity here
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[[ The Noldor are clearly superior to the Sindar in every possible way. ]]

[ Come on! What's to discuss about that? It is patently obvious on the 
surface that the Noldor are clearly superior to the Sindar--feckless tree 
huggers over the most brilliant intellects, artists, builders, and craftsmen 
ever? ]

To play devil's advocate: It all depends on how you define art. The Noldor 
were great at creating things. At the engineering/scientific side of the 
art. Not that there's anything bad about that (leaving aside Aule's 
propensity to educate certain villains...) I'm just saying that there are 
other types of art. Even the Noldor-biased histories described the beauties 
of Daeron's music and Luthien's dancing. Yes, there's Maglor, but he's known 
more for creating songs than being a performer.

And lest we forget, it's a man and a Sinda who rescued the Silmaril all by 
themselves. Maedhros's approach didn't work quite so well. And this 
according to a Noldo-written history. :-)

Marta 



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Let me see, aren't the Noldor those who marry twice, play with swords, exce=
l at everything, swear interesting oaths, create shiny things and get nasty=
 when they don't get their toys? 

Bring them on; they make life interestin=
g. 

The Sindar had a really uneventful life until the pack of Noldor came =
east with all their wicked ways. 

But there were people like broody Eol an=
d sweet Luthien who managed to steal a bit of the Noldor limelight...just a=
 wee bit.



--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, CGL  wrote:
>
> --- On Thu, 1/10/09, Dawn Felagund  wr=
ote:
> 
> > Yep, we're in one of our quiet phases at the moment. Just let s=
omeone 
> > mention the right hot-button topic ... ;)
> =A0
> 
> The Noldor=
 are clearly superior to the Sindar in every possible way.  
> 
> Discuss.
=
> 
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo=
.com
>




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From: CGL 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Well, not much activity here
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--- On Fri, 2/10/09, Marta  wrote:

> And lest we=
 forget, it's a man and a Sinda who rescued the
> Silmaril all by 
> themse=
lves. Maedhros's approach didn't work quite so well.
> And this according t=
o a Noldo-written history. :-)

Well, L=FAthien did have the advantage of b=
eing Magical-Sue, while Maedhros was plagued by authorial bias on account o=
f that whole oath-and-curse debacle.

CGL

Send instant messages to your on=
line friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 


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From: "indy_1776" 
Subject: Somewhat OT: NaNoWriMo
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November's National Novel Writing Month: 50,000 words, 30 days. It's a lot =
of fun. :D (And yes, I'm somewhat obsessed-- it's my sixth year.) www.nanow=
rimo.org

Since I know there's a few of us doing it this year, I've created=
 a thread in the forums for those participating: http://www.nanowrimo.org/e=
ng/node/3265292

Hope to see you there!

~ Indy



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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Somewhat OT: NaNoWriMo
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--00504502c3ec1bf2d80474f6f088
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Thanks, Indy! And I forgot to put a post in the newsletter about NaNoWriMo!
Well, I'll put up a note on the sidebar of the site.

Six years ... color me impressed! :) I did it for three years before
retiring for a while last year thanks to going back to school. Someday my
life will settle down enough that I can play again. But first, I must finish
the novel I started my *first* year. ;)

Best of luck to you and all of the other participants! :)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--00504502c3ec1bf2d80474f6f088
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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Thanks, Indy! And I forgot to put a post in the newsletter=
 about NaNoWriMo! Well, I'll put up a note on the sidebar of the site.<=
/div>

=C2=A0


Six years ... color me impressed! :) I did it =
for three years before retiring for a while last year thanks to going back =
to school. Someday my life will settle down enough that I can play again. B=
ut first, I must finish the novel I started my first year. ;)


=C2=A0


Best of luck to you and all of the other particip=
ants! :)


=C2=A0


Dawn



-- 
~oOo~
D=
awn Felagund
htt=
p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



--00504502c3ec1bf2d80474f6f088--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Character Biographies Needed for November and December
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Hi, all,

If you read our monthly newsletter, then you know that Oshun is our
hard-working biographer for the newsletter and References and puts together
an essay each month about a character from *The Silmarillion.* This is a lot
of work so, not surprisingly, she sometimes needs a month or two off and has
asked for November and December off this year. This means that those
biography slots are open for anyone who wishes to take them!

If you've ever read the character biographies, then you probably have a good
idea of what they entail. They foremost cover the basics from *The
Silmarillion *about that character: who the person was and what s/he did in
the story. They frequently discuss any supplemental texts in the HoMe, UT,
or Tolkien's other books that concern the character. After that, we really
like to leave the biography open to the writer's interests, so writers are
free to explore whatever questions or topics catch their attention about
that character. For example, Beleg's biography considers the possibility
that he may have been one of the Unbegotten Elves at Cuivienen.
Ar-Pharazon's biography considers how he might have been influenced by the
One Ring. Looking at how the character fits trends and themes in Tolkien's
books (e.g., women characters in the legendarium), linguistic issues (e.g.,
what a name means or how it evolved), and the evolution of the character
over the course of JRRT's writing career (e.g., how  Celegorm evolved into a
"bad guy") are also popular topics to touch upon.

What characters can you write about? Any that haven't been written about
already, with a few caveats. (The complete list of characters that have been
written already is here:
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/characterofthemonth.php.)
Ulmo has been reserved already for a future biography. And any of the
Feanorians on the list that were written by me for Seven in '07--and that's
all of them except for Feanor--really need to be redone. I wrote all of them
under time constraints, in about four days, and I know many in this group
could do those characters more justice than I did.

Are you allowed to discuss controversies and express your opinion?
Absolutely. I like to think that we're all mature enough here to handle the
ever-sensitve subject of whether Celegorm was blond- or brown-haired. ;)
While the biographies provide background information for readers less
familiar with a particular character, those questions and controversies are
really what makes the biographies so informative and entertaining for those
who are already familiar with the character.

How long does the biography have to be? That depends on the character and
what you want to write. We are very flexible with this. The longest
biography--Finrod Felagund--was close to twenty pages in MS Word. But this
month's biography--Nimloth of Doriath--was only two pages.

When are biographies due? I generally like to have newsletter content no
later than three days before the end of the month. This gives me ample time
to copyedit, add HTML markup, and create files for the Reference Library. If
you would like feedback more detailed than a copyedit, I ask that the
article be turned in no later than a week before the end of the month.

We do require citations from the text for the sources that you use in
compiling the biography. Readers should be able to find where you're getting
your information with relative ease. If you have no idea how to do citations
or haven't done them in a while, don't worry--we are more than happy to help
with this. Please just let us know.

Now there are doubtlessly some of you who are thinking, "*My* favorite
character hasn't been covered yet ... but I don't know enough/write well
enough/have enough good ideas/et cetera." Please don't let these doubts
discourage you. At least, email us at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild
DOT org, and we will work to help you in whatever ways we can. Even if you
think you'd like to write about *someone* but aren't sure *who*--email us
and we'll work out some ideas.

Finally, if you'd like to someday write a biography but just don't have the
time now, please email me privately or at the loremaster address, and I will
add you to the list of "pinch hitters" for the character biography. These
are the first people we contact when we have a month that needs coverage.

If you have any questions or are interested in writing for either month,
please email us at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.

All the best,

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--001636d3416c0db04a0474f7857a
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi, all,


=C2=A0


If you read our monthly newslett=
er, then you know that Oshun is our hard-working biographer for the newslet=
ter and References and puts together an essay each month about a character =
from The Silmarillion. This is a lot of work so, not surprisingly,=
 she sometimes needs a month or two off and has asked for November and Dece=
mber off this year. This means that those biography slots are open for anyo=
ne who wishes to take them!



=C2=A0


If you've eve=
r read the character biographies, then you probably have a good idea of wha=
t they entail. They foremost cover the basics from The Silmarillion about that character: who the person was and=C2=A0what s/he did in the st=
ory. They frequently discuss any supplemental texts in the HoMe, UT, or Tol=
kien's other books that concern the character. After that, we really li=
ke to leave the biography open to the writer's interests, so writers ar=
e free to explore whatever=C2=A0questions or topics catch=C2=A0their attent=
ion about that character. For example, Beleg's biography considers the =
possibility that he may have been one of the Unbegotten Elves at Cuivienen.=
 Ar-Pharazon's biography considers how he might have been influenced by=
 the One Ring. Looking at how the character fits trends and themes in Tolki=
en's books (e.g., women characters in the legendarium), linguistic issu=
es (e.g., what a name means or how it evolved), and the evolution of the ch=
aracter over the course of JRRT's writing career (e.g., how=C2=A0 Celeg=
orm evolved into a "bad guy") are also popular topics to touch up=
on.



=C2=A0

=



=C2=A0


Are you allowed to discuss controversies and expre=
ss your opinion? Absolutely. I like to think that we're all mature enou=
gh here to handle the ever-sensitve subject of whether Celegorm was blond- =
or brown-haired. ;) While the biographies provide background information fo=
r readers less familiar with a particular character, those questions and co=
ntroversies are really what makes the biographies so informative and entert=
aining for those who are already familiar with the character.



=
=C2=A0


How long does the biography have to be? That depends on t=
he character and what you want to write. We are very flexible with this. Th=
e longest biography--Finrod Felagund--was close to twenty pages in MS Word.=
 But this month's biography--Nimloth of Doriath--was only two pages.


=C2=A0


When are biographies due? I generally like to h=
ave newsletter content no later than three days before the end of the month=
. This gives me ample time to copyedit, add HTML markup, and create files f=
or the Reference Library. If you would like feedback more detailed than a c=
opyedit, I ask that the article be turned in no later than a week before th=
e end of the month.



=C2=A0


We do require citations f=
rom the text for the sources that you use in compiling the biography. Reade=
rs should be able to find where you're getting your information with re=
lative ease. If you have no idea how to do citations or haven't done th=
em in a while, don't worry--we are more than happy to help with this. P=
lease just let us know.



=C2=A0


Now there are doubtle=
ssly some of you who are thinking, "My favorite character has=
n't been covered yet ... but I don't know enough/write well enough/=
have enough good ideas/et cetera."=C2=A0Please don't let these dou=
bts discourage you. At least, email us at loremaster AT silmarillionwriters=
guild DOT org, and we will work to help you in whatever ways we can. Even i=
f you think you'd like to write about someone but aren't s=
ure who--email us and we'll work out some ideas.



=
=C2=A0


Finally, if you'd like to someday write a biography b=
ut just don't have the time now, please email me privately or at the lo=
remaster address, and I will add you to the list of "pinch hitters&quo=
t; for the character biography. These are the first people we contact when =
we have a month that needs coverage.



=C2=A0


If you h=
ave any questions or are interested in writing for either month, please ema=
il us at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.


=C2=A0<=
/div>

All the best,


=C2=A0


Dawn



--001636d3416c0db04a0474f7857a--


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From: Silver Trails 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Character Biographies Needed for November and December
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Hi,
=A0
I would like to take Caranthir. When would the bio need to be ready=
? 
=A0
CC

--- On Fri, 10/2/09, Dawn Felagund  wrot=
e:


From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: [SilmarillionWri=
tersGuild] Character Biographies Needed for November and December
To: "SWG"=
 
Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, =
5:59 PM


=A0 




Hi, all,
=A0
If you read our monthly newsletter, then yo=
u know that Oshun is our hard-working biographer for the newsletter and Ref=
erences and puts together an essay each month about a character from The Si=
lmarillion. This is a lot of work so, not surprisingly, she sometimes needs=
 a month or two off and has asked for November and December off this year. =
This means that those biography slots are open for anyone who wishes to tak=
e them!
=A0
If you've ever read the character biographies, then you probabl=
y have a good idea of what they entail. They foremost cover the basics from=
 The Silmarillion about that character: who the person was and=A0what s/he =
did in the story. They frequently discuss any supplemental texts in the HoM=
e, UT, or Tolkien's other books that concern the character. After that, we =
really like to leave the biography open to the writer's interests, so write=
rs are free to explore whatever=A0questions or topics catch=A0their attenti=
on about that character. For example, Beleg's biography considers the possi=
bility that he may have been one of the Unbegotten Elves at Cuivienen. Ar-P=
harazon's biography considers how he might have been influenced by the One =
Ring. Looking at how the character fits trends and themes in Tolkien's book=
s (e.g., women characters in the legendarium) , linguistic issues (e.g., wh=
at a name means or how it evolved), and the evolution of the character over=
 the
 course of JRRT's writing career (e.g., how=A0 Celegorm evolved into a=
 "bad guy") are also popular topics to touch upon.
=A0
What characters can =
you write about? Any that haven't been written about already, with a few ca=
veats. (The complete list of characters that have been written already is h=
ere: http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/reference/ characterofthemo =
nth.php.) Ulmo has been reserved already for a future biography. And any of=
 the Feanorians on the list that were written by me for Seven in '07--and t=
hat's all of them except for Feanor--really=A0 need to=A0be redone. I wrote=
 all of them under time constraints, in about four days, and I know many in=
 this group could do those characters more justice than I did.
=A0
Are you =
allowed to discuss controversies and express your opinion? Absolutely. I li=
ke to think that we're all mature enough here to handle the ever-sensitve s=
ubject of whether Celegorm was blond- or brown-haired. ;) While the biograp=
hies provide background information for readers less familiar with a partic=
ular character, those questions and controversies are really what makes the=
 biographies so informative and entertaining for those who are already fami=
liar with the character.
=A0
How long does the biography have to be? That d=
epends on the character and what you want to write. We are very flexible wi=
th this. The longest biography--Finrod Felagund--was close to twenty pages =
in MS Word. But this month's biography--Nimloth of Doriath--was only two pa=
ges.
=A0
When are biographies due? I generally like to have newsletter cont=
ent no later than three days before the end of the month. This gives me amp=
le time to copyedit, add HTML markup, and create files for the Reference Li=
brary. If you would like feedback more detailed than a copyedit, I ask that=
 the article be turned in no later than a week before the end of the month.=

=A0
We do require citations from the text for the sources that you use in =
compiling the biography. Readers should be able to find where you're gettin=
g your information with relative ease. If you have no idea how to do citati=
ons or haven't done them in a while, don't worry--we are more than happy to=
 help with this. Please just let us know.
=A0
Now there are doubtlessly som=
e of you who are thinking, "My favorite character hasn't been covered yet .=
.. but I don't know enough/write well enough/have enough good ideas/et cete=
ra."=A0Please don't let these doubts discourage you. At least, email us at =
loremaster AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org, and we will work to help y=
ou in whatever ways we can. Even if you think you'd like to write about som=
eone but aren't sure who--email us and we'll work out some ideas.
=A0
Final=
ly, if you'd like to someday write a biography but just don't have the time=
 now, please email me privately or at the loremaster address, and I will ad=
d you to the list of "pinch hitters" for the character biography. These are=
 the first people we contact when we have a month that needs coverage.
=A0
=
If you have any questions or are interested in writing for either month, pl=
ease email us at loremaster AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT org.
=A0
All t=
he best,
=A0
Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic=
_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org
















   =
   
--0-1087090986-1254510289=:74374
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<=
/tr>
Hi,


 


I would=
 like to take Caranthir. When would the bio need to be ready? 


&=
nbsp;


CC

--- On Fri, 10/2/09, Dawn Felagund  wrote:



=
From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: [Silmarillio=
nWritersGuild] Character Biographies Needed for November and December
To=
: "SWG" 
Date: Friday, O=
ctober 2, 2009, 5:59 PM



  





Hi, all,

 


If you read our monthly newsletter, then you know that O=
shun is our hard-working biographer for the newsletter and References and p=
uts together an essay each month about a character from The Silmarillio=
n. This is a lot of work so, not surprisingly, she sometimes needs a m=
onth or two off and has asked for November and December off this year. This=
 means that those biography slots are open for anyone who wishes to take th=
em!


 


If you've ever read the character biograph=
ies, then you probably have a good idea of what they entail. They foremost =
cover the basics from The Silmarillion about that character: who t=
he person was and what s/he did in the story. They frequently discuss =
any supplemental texts in the HoMe, UT, or Tolkien's other books that conce=
rn the character. After that, we really like to leave the biography open to=
 the writer's interests, so writers are free to explore whatever quest=
ions or topics catch their attention about that character. For example=
, Beleg's biography considers the possibility that he may have been one of =
the Unbegotten Elves at Cuivienen. Ar-Pharazon's biography considers how he=
 might have been influenced by the One Ring. Looking at how the character f=
its trends and themes in Tolkien's books (e.g., women characters in the leg=
endarium) , linguistic issues (e.g., what a name means or how it evolved), =
and the evolution of
 the character over the course of JRRT's writing caree=
r (e.g., how  Celegorm evolved into a "bad guy") are also popular topi=
cs to touch upon.


 


What characters can you writ=
e about? Any that haven't been written about already, with a few caveats. (=
The complete list of characters that have been written already is here: http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild=
 .org/reference/ characterofthemo nth.php.) Ulmo has been reserved alre=
ady for a future biography. And any of the Feanorians on the list that were=
 written by me for Seven in '07--and that's all of them except for Feanor--=
really  need to be redone. I wrote all of them under time constra=
ints, in about four days, and I know many in this group could do those char=
acters more justice than I did.


 


Are you allowe=
d to discuss controversies and express your opinion? Absolutely. I like to =
think that we're all mature enough here to handle the ever-sensitve subject=
 of whether Celegorm was blond- or brown-haired. ;) While the biographies p=
rovide background information for readers less familiar with a particular c=
haracter, those questions and controversies are really what makes the biogr=
aphies so informative and entertaining for those who are already familiar w=
ith the character.


 


How long does the biography=
 have to be? That depends on the character and what you want to write. We a=
re very flexible with this. The longest biography--Finrod Felagund--was clo=
se to twenty pages in MS Word. But this month's biography--Nimloth of Doria=
th--was only two pages.


 


When are biographies d=
ue? I generally like to have newsletter content no later than three days be=
fore the end of the month. This gives me ample time to copyedit, add HTML m=
arkup, and create files for the Reference Library. If you would like feedba=
ck more detailed than a copyedit, I ask that the article be turned in no la=
ter than a week before the end of the month.


 


W=
e do require citations from the text for the sources that you use in compil=
ing the biography. Readers should be able to find where you're getting your=
 information with relative ease. If you have no idea how to do citations or=
 haven't done them in a while, don't worry--we are more than happy to help =
with this. Please just let us know.


 


Now there =
are doubtlessly some of you who are thinking, "My favorite charact=
er hasn't been covered yet ... but I don't know enough/write well enough/ha=
ve enough good ideas/et cetera." Please don't let these doubts discour=
age you. At least, email us at loremaster AT silmarillionwriters guild DOT =
org, and we will work to help you in whatever ways we can. Even if you thin=
k you'd like to write about someone but aren't sure who--=
email us and we'll work out some ideas.


 


Finall=
y, if you'd like to someday write a biography but just don't have the time =
now, please email me privately or at the loremaster address, and I will add=
 you to the list of "pinch hitters" for the character biography. These are =
the first people we contact when we have a month that needs coverage.
=


 


If you have any questions or are interested in writ=
ing for either month, please email us at loremaster AT silmarillionwriters =
guild DOT org.


 


All the best,


 =



Dawn





      
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From: Dawn Felagund 
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Still playing devil's advocate ...

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 11:00 AM, nav_joyi  wrote:
> The Sindar had a really uneventful life until the pack of Noldor came east
with all their wicked ways.

Did they? Since the "histories" are written from a Noldorin PoV, how would
we know what went on in Doriath, particularly before the arrival of the
Noldor? There could be all sorts of wild things going on in Doriath and we
would never know! Perhaps the Girdle of Melian is less to keep the bad guys
out and the sordid secrets in? ;)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--00504502c3ec5b253f0474f6e5f4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Still playing devil's advocate ...



O=
n Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 11:00 AM, nav_joyi <nav_joyi@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The Sindar had a really uneventful life until=
 the pack of Noldor came east with all their wicked ways.


=C2=A0


Did they? Since th=
e "histories" are written from a Noldorin PoV, how would we know =
what went on in Doriath, particularly before the arrival of the Noldor? The=
re could be all sorts of wild things going on in Doriath and we would never=
 know! Perhaps the Girdle of Melian is less to keep the bad guys out and th=
e sordid secrets in? ;)



=C2=A0

Dawn


=C2=A0

<=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor=
emaster/
http://=
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org




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To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "nav_joyi" 
Subject: Re: Well, not much activity here
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=358504590; y=vu5THki2fI0n9Vcv-2ZJqm7gmjkhLxvnVoSL1F42fAYZZKk
X-Yahoo-Profile: nav_joyi

Perhaps the Girdle of Melian is less to keep the bad guys
> out and the sor=
did secrets in? ;)
> 

Really, Dawn, writing all those Feanorian dramas hav=
e made you paranoid. To suspect those little elves of Doriath! I am sure th=
at they were model well-behaved paragons of virtue except for the odd orgy =
or two;)


--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund <=
DawnFelagund@...> wrote:
>
> Still playing devil's advocate ...
> 
> On Fri=
, Oct 2, 2009 at 11:00 AM, nav_joyi  wrote:
> > The Sindar ha=
d a really uneventful life until the pack of Noldor came east
> with all th=
eir wicked ways.
> 
> Did they? Since the "histories" are written from a No=
ldorin PoV, how would
> we know what went on in Doriath, particularly befor=
e the arrival of the
> Noldor? There could be all sorts of wild things goin=
g on in Doriath and we
> would never know! Perhaps the Girdle of Melian is =
less to keep the bad guys
> out and the sordid secrets in? ;)
> 
> Dawn
> 
=
> -- 
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/=

> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
>




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To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com, elffetish@yahoogroups.com
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From: CGL 
Subject: Probably AU Genfic Swap
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7367627; y=SXUrin3WzIlRdPmMlLojXa428R9RQqdxxTQ3-ie1yKsxtR4zMA
X-Yahoo-Profile: il_perfido

Genfic Swap Challenge =E2=80=93 because you can never be working on too man=
y stories at once.

The core premise of this swap challenge is simple. In f=
act, it's the same as any other swap challenge out there. You make a reques=
t, which somebody writes, and receive a request, which you write for somebo=
dy. Everyone writes one story per another participant's specification. Stor=
ies are exchanged. Everyone gets a genfic gift at the end.

But here's the =
crazy part. You write one story... but receive two. Yes, two. WHOA! I hear =
you saying now. That's madness! That's insanity! That's mathematically impo=
ssible!

Well, I promise you, it can be done.  Interested?  Have a look at =
the full rules posted at http://elvses.livejournal.com/134094.html and sign=
 on up.  A good, or at least weird, time is promised to all.

CGL

PS) Plea=
se feel free to repost this email to any other lists that may be interested=
.  The more participants, the more fun.


      


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Geocities Is Closing in Two Weeks
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KbDwCR2MwE2IjVKKmqYkxvFc3McBmb7jwsaK-LjI5GDebFRaL4VM
X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund


--000e0cdfd7e6b73dad0475bd5a53
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi, all,

I'm sure most of you are aware by now that Geocities free webhosting service
will be closing two weeks from now on 26 October. That means that all
existing Geocities webpages will be gone after that date.

If you have a page hosted with Geocities, it will need to be moved to a new
service. If you need help finding a place to host, the Organization for
Transformative Works (OTW) has a Geocities Rescue Project aimed at helping
fansites hosted on Geocities relocate:

http://transformativeworks.org/announcing-otws-geocities-rescue-project

I am also willing to temporarily host Tolkien sites on my webspace until
more permanent plans can be made. Please email me off-list if you're
interested.

If you use websites hosted with Geocities and the owner has not made plans
to relocate the site, then the information on that site will be gone in two
weeks. I recommend making personal backups of any resources or stories that
you like on Geocities sites. Please email me off-list if you need help with
this.

All the best,

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--000e0cdfd7e6b73dad0475bd5a53
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, all,

I'm sure most of you are aware by now that Geocities fr=
ee webhosting service will be closing two weeks from now on 26 October. Tha=
t means that all existing Geocities webpages will be gone after that date.<=
br>

If you have a page hosted with Geocities, it will need to be moved =
to a new service. If you need help finding a place to host, the Organizatio=
n for Transformative Works (OTW) has a Geocities Rescue Project aimed at he=
lping fansites hosted on Geocities relocate:


http://transf=
ormativeworks.org/announcing-otws-geocities-rescue-project

I am =
also willing to temporarily host Tolkien sites on my webspace until more pe=
rmanent plans can be made. Please email me off-list if you're intereste=
d.


If you use websites hosted with Geocities and the owner has not =
made plans to relocate the site, then the information on that site will be =
gone in two weeks. I recommend making personal backups of any resources or =
stories that you like on Geocities sites. Please email me off-list if you n=
eed help with this.


All the best,

Dawn

=
-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersgui=
ld.org



--000e0cdfd7e6b73dad0475bd5a53--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:16:07 -0000
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Message-ID: 
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X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0
From: "hathorsisle" 
Subject: Re: Geocities Is Closing in Two Weeks
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=cXxYVLBWggj9AMBy2x66-V3yphlm8aXMtbpjFxSkBdgIxl2Zs1k
X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle

Is anyone in touch with Ivanneth? Her page is also at Geocities, it would b=
e sad it it was completely gone :(

I sent her a message some time ago but =
never got answer, perhaps it has perished in spam filters or that email is =
not active anymore. Or whatever, I haven't answered way many emails, too. I=
'll try again and link her the last message.

Sirielle

--- In Silmarillion=
WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund  wrote:
>
> H=
i, all,
> 
> I'm sure most of you are aware by now that Geocities free webh=
osting service
> will be closing two weeks from now on 26 October. That mea=
ns that all
> existing Geocities webpages will be gone after that date.
> 
=
> If you have a page hosted with Geocities, it will need to be moved to a n=
ew
> service. If you need help finding a place to host, the Organization fo=
r
> Transformative Works (OTW) has a Geocities Rescue Project aimed at help=
ing
> fansites hosted on Geocities relocate:
> 
> http://transformativework=
s.org/announcing-otws-geocities-rescue-project
> 
> I am also willing to te=
mporarily host Tolkien sites on my webspace until
> more permanent plans ca=
n be made. Please email me off-list if you're
> interested.
> 
> If you use=
 websites hosted with Geocities and the owner has not made plans
> to reloc=
ate the site, then the information on that site will be gone in two
> weeks=
. I recommend making personal backups of any resources or stories that
> yo=
u like on Geocities sites. Please email me off-list if you need help with
>=
 this.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Dawn
> 
> -- 
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http=
://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmarillionwritersgui=
ld.org
>




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From: "hathorsisle" 
Subject: Turgon "Sarafinwe Arakondo" - Gnomish? Ancient Quenya? Parma Eldalamberon 17 - W
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=1jesXOHwxjWokHzFqj6LRQhVlY5aZRwXBqusL0_m5LiTlSJtg4w
X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle

Hello!

I've stepped over "Sarafinwe" being Turgons's father name, which co=
ntradicts Turuk=E1no given in HoME XII p. 345. Where does thsi information =
come from? I haven't find it in HoME XII nor II. Google doesn't say much, e=
ither, apart of information at Tolkien Gateway wiki (no source given, artic=
le needs modification, I'm just about to add there Turuk=E1no with a source=
, please don't edit it ATM):
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Turgon_the_Wise=
 

and on some Portuguese page:
http://tolkienpt.neojag.net/forum/index.php=
?topic=3D15.msg99320
which in translation by Google translate says:

"Just =
an aside as a curiosity. P.E 17, p. 113 back several 
forms for the name Tu=
rgon: 

Q Turondo 
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From: "hathorsisle" 
Subject: Turgon "Sarafinwe Arakondo" - Gnomish?AncientQuenya? Parma Eldalamberon (fixed)
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=WqUUtOyqXkv0BDXPsCygB1vV_3vDPZrm_wGLugvxJLhAIYOuV5w
X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle

Hello!

/////Sorry for double message, but it went in while I was editing a=
nd had to press a short cut which I don't know ;)

I've stepped over "Saraf=
inwe" being Turgons's father name, which contradicts Turuk=E1no given in Ho=
ME XII p. 345. Where does this information come from? I haven't find it in =
HoME XII nor II. Google doesn't say much, either, apart of information at T=
olkien Gateway wiki (no source given, article needs modification, I'm just =
about to add there Turuk=E1no with a source, please don't edit it ATM):
htt=
p://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Turgon_the_Wise 

and on some Portuguese page:
=
http://tolkienpt.neojag.net/forum/index.php?topic=3D15.msg99320
which in tr=
anslation by Google translate says:

"Just an aside as a curiosity. P.E 17,=
 p. 113 back several 
forms for the name Turgon: 

Q Turondo 
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References: 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:45:35 -0400
Message-ID: 
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502caac542e8504763f109d
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0
From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Turgon "Sarafinwe Arakondo" - 
	Gnomish?AncientQuenya? Parma Eldalamberon (fixed)
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MDGThTIU8Ba6YCLXRzSZgafXj1_MQlAIiF2I_0D5Iu9RdCkgRcdp
X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund


--00504502caac542e8504763f109d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Sirielle, I just did a search of the digital copies of my Tolkien books for
"saraf" and didn't find anything. Perhaps it's in one of the linguistic
journals or unpublished notes? I don't have any of those sources to check.
It's a shame the poster didn't include a citation!

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--00504502caac542e8504763f109d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sirielle, I just did a search of the digital copies of my Tolkien books for=
 "saraf" and didn't find anything. Perhaps it's in one of=
 the linguistic journals or unpublished notes? I don't have any of thos=
e sources to check. It's a shame the poster didn't include a citati=
on!


Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net=
/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



--00504502caac542e8504763f109d--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "hathorsisle" 
Subject: Re: Turgon "Sarafinwe Arakondo" - Gnomish?AncientQuenya? Parma Eldalamberon (fix
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=h1NIubeonG4YZS7_o0XsB67REeb1DUEUcGoNAIaWmDNAFd8dII8
X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle

Hi Dawn,

they did - Parma Eldalamberon 17, page 113:

http://www.eldalambe=
ron.com/parma17.html 
(and copy, since the original link doesn't work for m=
e)
http://209.85.135.132/search?q=3Dcache:gpXlyzWTw9sJ:www.eldalamberon.com=
/parma17.html+Parma+Eldalamberon+17&cd=3D1&hl=3Dpl&ct=3Dclnk&gl=3Dpl

I don=
't have it either, and the translation via Google isn't perfect. But I just=
 noticed some people posting info on it on Polish Elendili forums (nothing =
on Turgon, though), so I'll ask there, too.

Sirielle

--- In SilmarillionW=
ritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund  wrote:
>
> Si=
rielle, I just did a search of the digital copies of my Tolkien books for
>=
 "saraf" and didn't find anything. Perhaps it's in one of the linguistic
> =
journals or unpublished notes? I don't have any of those sources to check.
=
> It's a shame the poster didn't include a citation!
> 
> Dawn
> 
> -- 
> ~=
oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http:/=
/www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
>




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References: 
	 
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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Turgon "Sarafinwe Arakondo" - 
	Gnomish?AncientQuenya? Parma Eldalamberon (fix
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Okay, then I'm dense! I thought the question was which source the name came
from. Sorry. :) Is the question whether the cite is correct? I don't have
PE, so I can't check. Darth Fingon might, if he's around.

Dawn


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

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Okay, then I'm dense! I thought the question was which source the name =
came from. Sorry. :) Is the question whether the cite is correct? I don'=
;t have PE, so I can't check. Darth Fingon might, if he's around.

Dawn


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/=
heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



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From: "Doc Bushwell" 
Subject: Re: Turgon "Sarafinwe Arakondo" - Gnomish?AncientQuenya? Parma Eldalamberon (fix
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Sirielle, 

> 
> I've stepped over "Sarafinwe" being Turgons's father name,=
 which contradicts Turuk=E1no given in HoME XII p. 345. Where does this inf=
ormation come from? I haven't find it in HoME XII nor II. 

The citation of=
 "Sarafinw=EB" as Turgon's father name indeed comes from Parma Eldarlambero=
n vol. 17, p. 113, which I have propped open beside me. In PE17, Tolkien pu=
zzled out the meaning of Turgon, the Sindarin construct, in relationship to=
 various Quenya constructs.  Tolkien wrote this when he considered what "Ar=
agorn" meant.  I'll write out (as best I can -- some of the symbols like th=
e "square root" symbol for roots of words and diacriticals don't always tra=
nslate) part of the page in question. 

Fingorn as Phiningorna (There's a t=
ilde over the second 'n' but Yahoo will freak if I use that diacritic -- Pa=
nde) would roughly =3D "revered Fin(we)."  Fingorn and Turugorn.

[Pande: T=
hen the editor of PE writes in brackets]:

[The final paragraph of this not=
e was deleted and replaced by the phrase "or Finikano, Turukano," apparentl=
y in connection with the following note.]

Turgon is then difficult? {Turug=
on} or {Turngorna > Turgorn. {Turugorn} 'Ruling Lord'.

Turukano, Tur(u)gon=
 [KAN] {govern, manage} 'lead'. kano, leader.

[This note in the left margi=
n was deleted in turn and replaced with the following.]

Turgond < Turukond=
o [KON - 'lord'] Cf. Beor[ian] gundu.

[This was written in the blank space=
 between notes on Idril and Fingon (see above). The back of the page has an=
 assortment of rough notes on Turgon and Fingon and related forms:]

[TUR] =
power.  verb turu-, master, defeat, have victory over. Turukondo, victory p=
rince. 

The name Turgond (Turukondo) was a 'title', his father name was ..=
. Sarafinw=EB.

Arakondo.

Golfin. {Gol} Golothir Turgond. [Gol Fingoldo} F=
in...

~~~~~~~~

There's more but not particularly relevant to the question=
 at hand.  I included as much as I did because I wanted to illustrate what =
those notes were all about: JRRT was trying to derive the root Quenya words=
 for Turgon's Sindarized name, much like a mathematician would derive an eq=
uation.

Whomever (Zito Force?) cited PE17 did not quote it verbatim and ap=
pears to have misinterpreted the text.  To state that his father gave him w=
as Sarafinwe Arakondo reads text in PE incorrectly.  Tolkien did write "his=
 father name was...Sarafinwe."  But "Arakondo" is separate from that, i.e.,=
 by a space and a period.  Additionally, the editors note that the ellipses=
 are meant to represent spaces in the text where Tolkien was grouping or se=
parating out ideas by a gap in his writing.  So "Sarafinwe" may very well b=
e an *idea* he was spelling out consistent with the other notes.  

The not=
es in PE17 look like they were written in the mid-1960s or so, based on wha=
t I skimmed in the introduction of PE17.  But how about PoMe (HoMe XII) in =
which Tolkien wrote that Turukano was "probably (a) father-name"?  If I rec=
all correctly, C. Tolkien described these as "very late writings."  So do t=
hey supercede the notes in PE17? They possibly do.

In any case, this is ye=
t one more example of how definitive quantification of Tolkien's world slip=
s through one's fingers like water. ;^)

I rather doubt this will answer yo=
ur question but there it is.
 
> 




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From: "hathorsisle" 
Subject: Re: Turgon "Sarafinwe Arakondo" - Gnomish?AncientQuenya? Parma Eldalamberon (fix
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=HsXQW0kX_KpbzvRM5Lbrs5agB9m45_ZPDs8UVVB__lrpH0fVI-Y
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> Okay, then I'm dense! I thought the question was which source the name ca=
me
> from. Sorry. :)

No, you're not - I wasn't clear, sorry!

They gave "P=
E" only, I think it must be Parma Eldalamberon, but I don't trust an automa=
tic translation of a forum post "possibly in Portugese" (Spanish gave some =
nonsense result). 

Thus I ask if someone with PE 17 at reach could confirm=
 it and say/quote in which way Sarafinwe as father name relates to Turuk=E1=
no?
Which father name is correct in this situation - the one given in HoME =
or the one given in PE?

Text in HoME says "probably father name", the text=
 in PE says directly father name - if the quotation and translation is accu=
rate. If it's rejected ancient Gnomish than nothing to worry about ;) If no=
t - we've got to choose. 

It's also important for a writer who used Sarafi=
nwe in her story and now she wonders if to keep it or remove it. She sent m=
e her story and I was like "Another father name?" She based on Tolkien Gate=
way info, thinking it's solid, but anyone can edit wiki page (as I am doing=
 right now thinking what to do with Sarafinde, I think I'll give PE as sour=
ce and mark as requires confirmation anyway). Thus there is a need to confi=
rm if such information in PE exists and what does it mean vs Turuk=E1no.


=
BTW, if 'k=E1no' is Quenya for commander (HoME XII) and 'turu' - according =
to PE 16 cited on-line - means to conquer, will then Turuk=E1no mean Conque=
ring Commander? 

I may be messing up, it's 3 AM here.

Regards :)

 Is the=
 question whether the cite is correct? I don't have
> PE, so I can't check.=
 Darth Fingon might, if he's around.
> 
> Dawn
> 
> 
> -- 
> ~oOo~
> Dawn F=
elagund
> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmaril=
lionwritersguild.org
>




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From: "Doc Bushwell" 
Subject: Re: Turgon "Sarafinwe Arakondo" - Gnomish?AncientQuenya? Parma Eldalamberon (fix
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One more thing -- "Sara" in the Qenya lexicon appears to be associated with=
 wood -- as in planks, sawing, etc.  "Sarta" is a Quenya gloss that apparen=
tly means trusty, loyal.  So is the derivation of "Sarafinwe" itself as tan=
gled as "Turgon?"





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From: "hathorsisle" 
Subject: Re: Turgon "Sarafinwe Arakondo" - Gnomish?AncientQuenya? Parma Eldalamberon (fix
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Hi Pandemonium,

> I rather doubt this will answer your question but there =
it is.

But it does! Thank you! That's exactly what I wanted. Even more inf=
o than I expected :) 

In this light I'll keep for myself Turuk=E1no as the=
 most valid father name. It all indeed looks like a process of noting ideas=
, while the text in HoME looks more solid. 

I've already passed the whole =
information to my friend, to help her decide upon the used name. She could =
keep Sarafinwe if she likes it, only give explanation to it sourcing PE 17.=


I'll try to edit the Tolkien Gatway entry giving back Turuk=E1no as fathe=
r name and more background info on Sarafinwe. Probably someone edited it af=
ter PE 17 came out, but instead adding one more possibility erased the info=
 from HoME.

Regards,
Sirielle


--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup=
s.com, "Doc Bushwell"  wrote:
>
> One more thing -- "Sara"=
 in the Qenya lexicon appears to be associated with wood -- as in planks, s=
awing, etc.  "Sarta" is a Quenya gloss that apparently means trusty, loyal.=
  So is the derivation of "Sarafinwe" itself as tangled as "Turgon?"
>



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From: "hathorsisle" 
Subject: Re: Turgon "Sarafinwe Arakondo" - Gnomish?AncientQuenya? Parma Eldalamberon (fix
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--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Doc Bushwell"  wrote:
>
> One more thing -- "Sara" in the Qenya lexicon appears to=
 be associated with wood -- as in planks, sawing, etc.  "Sarta" is a Quenya=
 gloss that apparently means trusty, loyal.  So is the derivation of "Saraf=
inwe" itself as tangled as "Turgon?"
>

As I've found on-line PE 17 lists "=
turu" as  "master, deafeat, have victory over", while PE 16 translates "tur=
u" as wood, and "tur=FAva" as wooden. According to a poster at Elendili for=
ums PE16 meanings come from 20ties, PE 17 translations being from 60-ties a=
s you say are more valid in this case. But there is some continuation of th=
ought in it with wood in focus ;)

I'll take care of the wiki page tomorrow=
, it's too late now.

Good night!

Sirielle




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Subject: Andreth's family
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Does anyone know if Andreth had more than one sibling, other than her broth=
er Bregor? Are there any mentions of her in [HoME: The War of the Jewels]? =
(Sorry, don't have the book, so can't check myself) Thanks!



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Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Andreth's family
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2009/11/1 eledhwen913 :
> Does anyone know if Andreth had more than one sibling, other than her brother Bregor? Are there any mentions of her in [HoME: The War of the Jewels]? (Sorry, don't have the book, so can't check myself) Thanks!

I just checked  my nanowrimo file. She has a younger sister named
Beril born First Age 365, no further details than a birthdate is known
in HoME 11.

Good luck!

Rhapsody


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Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Andreth's family
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Eledhwen, if you would like a digital copy of HoMe 11, please let me know,
and I will send it to you off-list. :)

Dawn

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:01 PM, eledhwen913  wrote:

>
>
> Does anyone know if Andreth had more than one sibling, other than her
> brother Bregor? Are there any mentions of her in [HoME: The War of the
> Jewels]? (Sorry, don't have the book, so can't check myself) Thanks!
>





-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6dab18ea07d0f0477552294
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Eledhwen, if you would like a digital copy of HoMe 11, please let me know, =
and I will send it to you off-list. :)

Dawn

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:01 PM, eledhwen913 <=
;eledhwen913@yahoo.com> wrote:




=











=C2=A0=







    

                 =
 
Does anyone know if Andreth had more than one sibling, other than her b=
rother Bregor? Are there any mentions of her in [HoME: The War of the Jewel=
s]? (Sorry, don't have the book, so can't check myself) Thanks!
=







-- 
=
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org<=
/a>



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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: November 2009 Newsletter Posted
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Hi, all,

The newsletter for November has been posted on our website here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php

We have *lots* of new stuff this month!

Aside from the news from in and around SWG, Silver Trails has written a new
biography for Caranthir. Caranthir gets a bad rap, but he did do a lot of
good, and this complex character is under discussion this month. Darth
Fingon's Linguistic Foolery column this month considers what ordinary Elves
might have done for a living. Using wordlists, Darth proposes a number of
careers for those Elves who weren't lucky enough to be born as princes. And
Angelica has written A Sense of History columnthat touches on the rich
literary and mythological history of dragons which, of course, also feature
prominently in Tolkien's writings.

In our Funnies section, Pandemonium's Gothmog and Draugluin answer that
burning question of how Maedhros lived so long on Thangorodrim with
(seemingly) any sources of sustenance. And Whitewave's Chibi of the Month
also considers Caranthir the dark and his dark secret--what is it? You'll
have to read the comic to find out the secret identity of Middle-earth's
favorite miserly millionaire!

Enjoy! :)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

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Hi, all,

The newsletter for November has been posted on our website =
here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php

We have lots of new stuff this month!

Aside from the n=
ews from in and around SWG, Silver Trails has written a new biography for C=
aranthir. Caranthir gets a bad rap, but he did do a lot of good, and this c=
omplex character is under discussion this month. Darth Fingon's Linguis=
tic Foolery column this month considers what ordinary Elves might have done=
 for a living. Using wordlists, Darth proposes a number of careers for thos=
e Elves who weren't lucky enough to be born as princes. And Angelica ha=
s written A Sense of History columnthat touches on the rich literary and my=
thological history of dragons which, of course, also feature prominently in=
 Tolkien's writings.


In our Funnies section, Pandemonium's =
Gothmog and Draugluin answer that burning question of how Maedhros lived so=
 long on Thangorodrim with (seemingly) any sources of sustenance. And White=
wave's Chibi of the Month also considers Caranthir the dark and his dar=
k secret--what is it? You'll have to read the comic to find out the sec=
ret identity of Middle-earth's favorite miserly millionaire!


En=
joy! :)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
<=
a href=3D"http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/">http://themidhavens.=
net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



--0016e6d7e4b21d99c304776eae28--


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To: open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com,
  lotr-research@yahoogroups.com,
  SilmarillionWritersGuild ,
  SoA , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com,
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From: Alassante7 
Subject: A_Long_Expected_Contest:Nov/Dec Theme ~ Memories
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The theme for Nov/Dec is 'Memories'. 
It doesn't have to be based on docume=
nted events=A0and=A0need to be based on an actual character in the books. E=
ach writer has until December 31th to turn in the story to alec_votecoordin=
ato r@yahoo.com.=A0
Note
- I have changed the email address to the same add=
ress as voting due to
some confusion of where to send things. SEND ALL STOR=
IES AND VOTES TO alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com.
Please include the proper=
 formatting for LJ. If you have any questions about how to do that, feel fr=
ee to ask.

Good luck and happy writing!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Lon=
g_Expected_Contest/ 
=A0
Voting is going on for October's Theme 'Wicked Thi=
ngs' until December 15th!


    
     

    
    http://community.livejourn=
al.com/a_l_e_c/





~~**~~  I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my re=
venge.=A0   JRR Tolkien  =A0          =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- 
=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0
=B0=BA.. =
Alassante .. =BA=B0
=A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:-

 =




  







      
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The theme for=
 Nov/Dec is 'Memories'. 

It doesn't have to be based on documented ev=
ents and need to be based on an actual character in the books. Ea=
ch writer has until December
 31th =
to turn in the story to alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com. 

Note
- I have changed the email address to the same address as vo=
ting due to
some confusion of where to send things. SEND ALL STORIES AND VO=
TES TO alec_vo=
tecoordinato r@yahoo.com.

Please include t=
he proper formatting for LJ. If you have any questions about how to do that=
, feel free to ask.

Good lu=
ck and happy writing!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/ 
=

 

Voting is going on for October's Theme 'Wicked Things' u=
ntil December 15th!



    
     



 


<=
/div>



      
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From: melissa chandra 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Andreth's family
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=_xR3DPYgmDoUF6I_JsJ5n9Q97BtfK6HO8XdTWBrzCfWT80NHAsM
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Wow! You have a digital copy of HomE, Dawn? O_O Mine are there, but can't b=
e opened somehow. :( Would you mind sharing with me? :-\
=A0Books don't do =
me good since I have no one speaking English to read them here, so I usuall=
y resort to E-books.
=A0
Oh, I am blabbing. :-[ Sorry! And I think I am rat=
her=A0 out of topic...
=A0
Umm. Dunno muchabout Andreth except that she was=
 a wise woman who argued with Finrod. Sorry, Eledhwen.
=A0
- Rey
=A0
=A0

-=
-- On Sun, 11/1/09, Dawn Felagund  wrote:


From: D=
awn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuil=
d] Andreth's family
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sund=
ay, November 1, 2009, 3:30 PM


=A0 



Eledhwen, if you would like a digit=
al copy of HoMe 11, please let me know, and I will send it to you off-list.=
 :)

Dawn


On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:01 PM, eledhwen913  wrote:


=A0 



Does anyone know if Andreth had more than one siblin=
g, other than her brother Bregor? Are there any mentions of her in [HoME: T=
he War of the Jewels]? (Sorry, don't have the book, so can't check myself) =
Thanks!





-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ lore=
master/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org
















      
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Wow! You have a digital copy of HomE, Da=
wn? O_O Mine are there, but can't be opened somehow. :( Would you mind shar=
ing with me? :-\


 Books don't do me good since I have no on=
e speaking English to read them here, so I usually resort to E-books.
=


 


Oh, I am blabbing. :-[ Sorry! And I think I am rath=
er  out of topic...


 


Umm. Dunno muchabout =
Andreth except that she was a wise woman who argued with Finrod. Sorry, Ele=
dhwen.


 


- Rey


 


&nbs=
p;



--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Dawn Felagund  wrote:



From: Daw=
n Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWrit=
ersGuild] Andreth's family
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com<=
BR>Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 3:30 PM



<=
SPAN style=3D"DISPLAY: none">  



Eledh=
wen, if you would like a digital copy of HoMe 11, please let me know, and I=
 will send it to you off-list. :)

Dawn



On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:01 PM, eledhwen913 <ele=
dhwen913@ yahoo.com> wrote:




  







Do=
es anyone know if Andreth had more than one sibling, other than her brother=
 Bregor? Are there any mentions of her in [HoME: The War of the Jewels]? (S=
orry, don't have the book, so can't check myself) Thanks!





-- 
~oOo~
Dawn=
 Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/<=
BR>http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org





      
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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month 2010 (No, Not Kidding)
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Hi, everyone,

Back to Middle-earth Month is an annual "holiday" held in March. This year
will be, I believe, SWG's fifth year participating in B2MeM in some
capacity. Believe it or not, we are starting to plan this year's event--no,
I have not cracked (not fully, anyway), but it is to be a bit more
labor-intensive than last year's, so I wanted to get an early start.

So how does this concern you? This year's event will be a game: a team quest
built around writing and artwork challenges. I hope that many of you will
have the opportunity to play, but we also need game moderators to help us
plan and moderate. While we have some basic rules in place, we still have
lots of creative work to be done in designing the game scenario, as well as
the administrative stuff that will need to be done for it to run smoothly,
so we're looking for volunteers who might want to help out with this.

The only caveat is that game moderators cannot also play in the game. We're
hoping to devise some tricks and surprises, and that would give an unfair
advantage to those who were aware of them ahead of time. If you want to
volunteer and think you might also want to play, please do email me, and I
will find something for you to do that will not compromise your ability to
play. If you want to be a game moderator and help with plotting, planning,
devising, and scheming awful or fun (or awfully fun?) things to do to the
players in the game, please email me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT
com and I'll get you set up in the game mods forum.

Secondly, as it was last year, our B2MeM event will be for
*all*Tolkien-based writing and artwork, not just that based on
*The Silmarillion.* So if you know anyone or any groups outside of Silmdom
that might be interested in participating, please do pass on this
information to them. I will be contacting other groups and mods eventually
but certainly appreciate any help I can get with this in the meantime. :)

All inquiries about B2MeM can be directed to me personally at this address
or to all of the moderators at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT
org.

Best regards,

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--001485e9a5c9192b5a04799faee1
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, everyone,

Back to Middle-earth Month is an annual "holiday&=
quot; held in March. This year will be, I believe, SWG's fifth year par=
ticipating in B2MeM in some capacity. Believe it or not, we are starting to=
 plan this year's event--no, I have not cracked (not fully, anyway), bu=
t it is to be a bit more labor-intensive than last year's, so I wanted =
to get an early start.


So how does this concern you? This year'=
s event will be a game: a team quest built around writing and artwork chall=
enges. I hope that many of you will have the opportunity to play, but we al=
so need game moderators to help us plan and moderate. While we have some ba=
sic rules in place, we still have lots of creative work to be done in desig=
ning the game scenario, as well as the administrative stuff that will need =
to be done for it to run smoothly, so we're looking for volunteers who =
might want to help out with this.


The only caveat is that game mode=
rators cannot also play in the game. We're hoping to devise some tricks=
 and surprises, and that would give an unfair advantage to those who were a=
ware of them ahead of time. If you want to volunteer and think you might al=
so want to play, please do email me, and I will find something for you to d=
o that will not compromise your ability to play. If you want to be a game m=
oderator and help with plotting, planning, devising, and scheming awful or =
fun (or awfully fun?) things to do to the players in the game, please email=
 me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com and I'll get you set up i=
n the game mods forum.


Secondly, as it was last year, our B2MeM eve=
nt will be for all Tolkien-based writing and artwork, not just that =
based on The Silmarillion. So if you know anyone or any groups outsi=
de of Silmdom that might be interested in participating, please do pass on =
this information to them. I will be contacting other groups and mods eventu=
ally but certainly appreciate any help I can get with this in the meantime.=
 :)


All inquiries about B2MeM can be directed to me personally at t=
his address or to all of the moderators at moderator AT silmarillionwriters=
guild DOT org.

Best regards,

Dawn

-- ~oOo~

Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or=
g


--001485e9a5c9192b5a04799faee1--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: December 2009 Newsletter
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Hi, all,

The December 2009 newsletter has been posted!

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/december2009.php

Of course, it includes all of the news from in and around SWG. There are
lots of upcoming events going on in other Tolkien groups, so be sure to
check out Around the World and Web as well.

Darth Fingon has written a character biography for us this month about
Gilfanon. Don't remember who he is? Not sure you ever knew?? He virtually
disappeared after the first volume of *The Book of Lost Tales* but his
character remains an important one for a reason that you'll have to read the
bio to find out. In honor of Gilfanon, Pandemonium has drawn up a hilarious
comic strip about one Elf's return to Tol Eressea and the changes in the
places and faces he finds there, starring a very memorable Gilfanon.

Enjoy the newsletter! :) Best regards,

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0015174be4fc80cdcd0479a12ecd
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, all,

The December 2009 newsletter has been posted!

http://=
www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/december2009.php

Of course=
, it includes all of the news from in and around SWG. There are lots of upc=
oming events going on in other Tolkien groups, so be sure to check out Arou=
nd the World and Web as well.


Darth Fingon has written a character =
biography for us this month about Gilfanon. Don't remember who he is? N=
ot sure you ever knew?? He virtually disappeared after the first volume of =
The Book of Lost Tales but his character remains an important one fo=
r a reason that you'll have to read the bio to find out. In honor of Gi=
lfanon, Pandemonium has drawn up a hilarious comic strip about one Elf'=
s return to Tol Eressea and the changes in the places and faces he finds th=
ere, starring a very memorable Gilfanon.


Enjoy the newsletter! :) B=
est regards,

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund=

http://themidha=
vens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



--0015174be4fc80cdcd0479a12ecd--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:37:34 -0000
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "juno_magic" 
Subject: The 'There and Back Again' Advent Calendar is back!
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299635773; y=aakP-P45sVLb2LMN0tkEXvirsMoNh9tMpA2bqiYBps2uRdwrbQ
X-Yahoo-Profile: juno_magic

Just like every year, the online writers' workshop "There and Back Again" o=
ffers daily writing prompts in December. This year, our prompts are based o=
n the archetypes presented in the Major Arcana of Tarot.

The challenge is =
to incorporate a daily archetype in your writing=97no matter if it's fanfic=
 or o-fic, a drabble, a poem, or a novel!

You can find the prompts and the=
 takes on them tagged "advent calendar 2009": http://community.livejournal.=
com/there_n_back/tag/advent+calendar+2009

Please feel free to jump in and =
play along any time at all!

Cheers,
JunoMagic

***

"There and Back Again"=
=97an online writers' workshop LiveJournal-style!
http://community.livejour=
nal.com/there_n_back/



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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: January 2010 Newsletter Posted
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Hi, all,

The newsletter for this month has been posted on our website!

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/january2010.php

This month's newsletter contains news from in and around SWG as well as
several columns and comics. Oshun returns to writing the Character of the
Month biography with the first of a two-part series on Glorfindel. This
month's article considers whether the two Glorfindels are the same person
and looks at what the books have to say about them both. Darth Fingon takes
a look at sources familiar and obscure in order to determine what holidays
were celebrated by Elves in the First Age. He also offers advice on how to
create your own holidays using Tolkien's texts as guidance. Finally,
Pandemonium gives us our monthly dose of humor in her continuing comic
series on the rescue of Maedhros: Fingon arrives at Thangorodrim and
discovers Maedhros by singing an ancient Elven song.

SWG is entering its fifth (!) year in 2010. We've come a long way from our
origins as a simple Yahoo mailing list to an active website and archive, and
as we look back at our accomplishments in '09 and our goals for 2010, we
thank you--our members--for bringing us so far! Best wishes from all of the
SWG moderators for a happy and inspired New Year!

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d7e345db83f6047c3a27c1
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, all,

The newsletter for this month has been posted on our websit=
e!

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/january2010.php

This month's newsletter contains news from in and around SWG as w=
ell as several columns and comics. Oshun returns to writing the Character o=
f the Month biography with the first of a two-part series on Glorfindel. Th=
is month's article considers whether the two Glorfindels are the same p=
erson and looks at what the books have to say about them both. Darth Fingon=
 takes a look at sources familiar and obscure in order to determine what ho=
lidays were celebrated by Elves in the First Age. He also offers advice on =
how to create your own holidays using Tolkien's texts as guidance. Fina=
lly, Pandemonium gives us our monthly dose of humor in her continuing comic=
 series on the rescue of Maedhros: Fingon arrives at Thangorodrim and disco=
vers Maedhros by singing an ancient Elven song.


SWG is entering its=
 fifth (!) year in 2010. We've come a long way from our origins as a si=
mple Yahoo mailing list to an active website and archive, and as we look ba=
ck at our accomplishments in '09 and our goals for 2010, we thank you--=
our members--for bringing us so far! Best wishes from all of the SWG modera=
tors for a happy and inspired New Year!


Dawn

-=
- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil=
d.org



--0016e6d7e345db83f6047c3a27c1--


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Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 12:48:56 -0800 (PST)
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild ,
  leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com,
  aragornangst@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com,
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From: Alassante7 
Subject: A Long Expected Contest ..::January's Theme - Forbidden Love::..
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Since I am late on posting the theme, I've added two weeks to the turn in d=
ate. The theme for January is 'Forbidden Love' and they will be posted on V=
alentine's Day. 
It doesn't have to be based on documented events=A0and=A0n=
eed to be based on an actual character in the books. Each writer has until =
February 13th by 12:00 AM PST  to turn in the story to alec_votecoordinato =
r@yahoo.com. The stories will be posted on Valentine's Day.
Note
- I have c=
hanged the email address to the same address as voting due to
some confusio=
n of where to send things. SEND ALL STORIES AND VOTES TO alec_votecoordinat=
or@yahoo.com.
Please include the proper formatting for LJ. If you have any =
questions about how to do that, feel free to ask.

Good luck and happy writ=
ing!

I will post December's stories by the end of the day. Sorry for the d=
elay. I'm going to do better in 2010 I promise!!!
=A0


http://community.li=
vejournal.com/a_l_e_c/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contes=
t/



 



  






      
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Since I am la=
te on posting the theme, I've added two weeks to the turn in date. The them=
e for January is 'Forbidden Love' and they will be posted on Valentine's Day. 

It do=
esn't have to be based on documented events and need to be based =
on an actual character in the books. Each writer has until February 13th by 12:00 AM PST  to turn in the story=
 to alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com. The stories will be posted on Valentin=
e's Day.

Note
- I have changed the email address to th=
e same address as voting due to
some confusion of where to send things. SEN=
D ALL STORIES AND VOTES TO alec_votecoordinator@yahoo.com.

Please include the proper formatting for LJ. If you have any questions a=
bout how to do that, feel free to ask.

Good luck and happy writing!

<=
font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">
I will post December's stories by the end of the day. Sorry for the delay=
. I'm going to do better in 2010 I promise!!!
<=
p class=3D"Silmtext" align=3D"left"> 



http://community.livejourn=
al.com/a_l_e_c/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/



 






      
--0-1433738558-1262551736=:10836--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: MEFA Announcement: And the winner is ...
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=eRJBPutLMYUBxktctfSDKcZWmIaOXbBNA3bPkj14gmgES3Ti11zs
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I'm passing on the last announcement of the current MEFA award
season--congratulations to *all* who participated, whether as authors,
reviewers, nominators, or volunteers! :)

---

Voting for the 2009 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards (MEFAs) has now ended,
and the results are in! You can see the results for this year's awards at
community.livejournal.com/mefas/191068.html
Competition was quite stiff, and many high-quality stories aren't recognized
at that list. We encourage you to continue reading any stories nominated as
part of our awards. The nominations from this year's awards will remain
available at our main website, www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/ , for the next
few months. If you see a story you like, please feel free to leave the
author some feedback at whatever site the story is posted.
-=-=-=-
The MEFAs rely on many volunteers as well as the reviewers and other
participants for their success. All of our volunteers are mentioned at
www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/index.php?page=FAQvolunteers
If you see someone on this list, why not thank them for making the MEFAs a
possibility?
-=-=-=-
Because no fannish project is ever perfect, we at the MEFAs would like to
know how we could do better next year. If you have constructive criticism
for us, please be thinking about what suggestions you would like to make.
For more information on how to make suggestions, see
community.livejournal.com/mefas/191701.html
-=-=-=-
Thanks again to all of the authors who shared their stories, the reviewers
who shared their kind words, and the volunteers who shared their time. The
MEFAs wouldn't happen without you.
Yours,
the MEFA Staff

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d7ef38548f4f047c93eaad
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I'm passing on the last announcement of the current MEFA award sea=
son--congratulations to all who participated, whether as a=
uthors, reviewers, nominators, or volunteers! :)


=C2=A0

---


=C2=A0


Voting for the 2009 Middle-earth Fanfic=
tion Awards (MEFAs) has now ended, and the results are in! You can see the =
results for this year's awards at



Competition was quite stiff, and many high-quality sto=
ries aren't recognized at that list. We encourage you to continue readi=
ng any stories nominated as part of our awards. The nominations from this y=
ear's awards will remain available at our main website, www.mefawards.net/MEFA2009/ , for the n=
ext few months. If you see a story you like, please feel free to leave the =
author some feedback at whatever site the story is posted.



-=3D=
-=3D-=3D-


The MEFAs rely on many volunteers as well as the revie=
wers and other participants for their success. All of our volunteers are me=
ntioned at



If you see someone on this list, why not thank them f=
or making the MEFAs a possibility?


-=3D-=3D-=3D-


Beca=
use no fannish project is ever perfect, we at the MEFAs would like to know =
how we could do better next year. If you have constructive criticism for us=
, please be thinking about what suggestions you would like to make. For mor=
e information on how to make suggestions, see




-=3D-=3D-=3D-


Thanks again to all =
of the authors who shared their stories, the reviewers who shared their kin=
d words, and the volunteers who shared their time. The MEFAs wouldn't h=
appen without you.


Yours,


the MEFA Staff

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
<=
a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org">http://www.silmarillionw=
ritersguild.org




--0016e6d7ef38548f4f047c93eaad--


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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Feanor's Early Life
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X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard  via web; 11 Jan 2010 17:40:57 -0000

I'm writing a story in which Feanor goes to work for Mahtan as an apprentic=
e. I have some questions which I hope you kind people will answer.

1. How =
old was Feanor when his father married Indis?

2. Did Feanor's apprenticesh=
ip begin before or after Finwe's wedding to Indis?

3. I know Feanor disapp=
roved of the marriage, but did he ever express outright hatred or contempt =
of Indis?

4. Is there a comprehensive discussion or essay of Feanor anywhe=
re that I could refer to?

That's it for now - I'll probably have more ques=
tions later. The advantage of asking them here is that other people can use=
 the answers. 



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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Feanor's Early Life
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Hi, Wendy,

Oshun has a character bio up on Feanor that might be useful:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/characterofthemonth/feanor.php

As far as times/ages, the *Annals of Aman* (HoMe X) provide some further
detail on this. Here are the relevant years for events that might interest
you:

*1169 YV:* Feanor born
*1170 YV: *Miriel dies
*1185 YV:* Finwe weds Indis

All of these dates are based on revisions that are explained in the Notes on
the Fourth Section of AAm.

1250 YV is given in the same document as "this time began the flowering of
the skill of Feanor son of Finwe," which refers here to both his devising
the Tengwar and beginning to craft gemstones. That says nothing about
Mahtan, of course, from whom he learned metal and stonework. However, *The
Silmarillion* says (and now we are really getting into my personal
interpretation :), "While still in his early youth he wedded Nerdanel, the
daughter of a great smith named Mahtan ... and of Mahtan he learned much of
making things in metal and stone" ("Of Feanor"). In my own stories, I have
taken this to add two more dates to Feanor's timeline. First is his
marriage; it is said he married in his early youth, and *Laws and Customs
among the Eldar* names the marriage age for the Eldar at the age of
maturity: 50 years. L&C is a problematic document for a lot of reasons, but
I have *slightly less* skepticism on this particular point because I don't
see the age of Elven maturity changing greatly between the Years of the
Trees and the time L&C was written. (It'd be possible to argue that it did,
given the drastic changes the world underwent--especially the Elven
perception of time--but I don't think there's any support in the text for
believing that it *must* have.) So if we assume Feanor was mature at age 50
or 1219 YV, his marriage date can be penciled in at that time or earlier.
(Personally, I take "early youth" at its word and make it earlier but,
again, there is really almost infinite flexibility here, imo.)

The second piece of information I think that passage provides is where his
relationship with Mahtan fits in with his marriage with Nerdanel. The
passage about Mahtan and Nerdanel has always implied a progression of events
to me. It does not sound as though he was learning from Mahtan and fell in
love with his daughter; rather, he fell in love with his daughter and, from
that union, he developed a student-teacher relationship also with her
father. So I have always put the start of his relationship with Mahtan *
after* his marriage (1219 YV), leading to the final timeline:

*1169 YV:* Feanor born
*1170 YV: *Miriel dies
*1185 YV:* Finwe weds Indis
*1219 YV (or earlier):* weds Nerdanel
*1219 YV (or later):* begins learning from Mahtan
*1250 YV:* begins Tengwar and working with gemstones

Again, I don't think this is the only interpretation to take from the texts,
and I am drawing on penciled-in notes and such that others might not count
as particularly compelling evidence one way or the other. But it's certainly
one way that I have found of resolving these questions for my own work. I'd
be interested to hear how my fellow Feanatics have resolved the same tangle
of sources into their own conclusions. :)

I will think on your third question and flip through some books before
answering; for now, I am off to mix salad dressing for my husband preparing
supper. :)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

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Hi, Wendy,

Oshun has a character bio up on Feanor that might be usef=
ul:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/refere=
nce/characterofthemonth/feanor.php


As far as times/ages, the Annals of Aman (HoMe X) provide some further detail on this. Here are =
the relevant years for events that might interest you:

1169 YV: Feanor born
1170 YV: Miriel dies

1185 YV: Finwe wed=
s Indis

All of these dates are based on revisions that are explained=
 in the Notes on the Fourth Section of AAm.

1250 YV is given in the =
same document as "this time began the flowering of the skill of Feanor=
 son of Finwe," which refers here to both his devising the Tengwar and=
 beginning to craft gemstones. That says nothing about Mahtan, of course, f=
rom whom he learned metal and stonework. However, The Silmarillion s=
ays (and now we are really getting into my personal interpretation :), &quo=
t;While still in his early youth he wedded Nerdanel, the daughter of a grea=
t smith named Mahtan ... and of Mahtan he learned much of making things in =
metal and stone" ("Of Feanor"). In my own stories, I have ta=
ken this to add two more dates to Feanor's timeline. First is his marri=
age; it is said he married in his early youth, and Laws and Customs amon=
g the Eldar names the marriage age for the Eldar at the age of maturity=
: 50 years. L&C is a problematic document for a lot of reasons, but I h=
ave slightly less skepticism on this particular point because I don&=
#39;t see the age of Elven maturity changing greatly between the Years of t=
he Trees and the time L&C was written. (It'd be possible to argue t=
hat it did, given the drastic changes the world underwent--especially the E=
lven perception of time--but I don't think there's any support in t=
he text for believing that it must have.) So if we assume Feanor was=
 mature at age 50 or 1219 YV, his marriage date can be penciled in at that =
time or earlier. (Personally, I take "early youth" at its word an=
d make it earlier but, again, there is really almost infinite flexibility h=
ere, imo.)


The second piece of information I think that passage pro=
vides is where his relationship with Mahtan fits in with his marriage with =
Nerdanel. The passage about Mahtan and Nerdanel has always implied a progre=
ssion of events to me. It does not sound as though he was learning from Mah=
tan and fell in love with his daughter; rather, he fell in love with his da=
ughter and, from that union, he developed a student-teacher relationship al=
so with her father. So I have always put the start of his relationship with=
 Mahtan after his marriage (1219 YV), leading to the final timeline:=



1169 YV: Feanor born

1170 YV: Miriel dies

1185 YV: Finwe weds Indis
1219 YV (or earlier): weds Nerdane=
l
1219 YV (or later): begins learning from Mahtan
1250 YV:<=
/b> begins Tengwar and working with gemstones

Again, I don't thi=
nk this is the only interpretation to take from the texts, and I am drawing=
 on penciled-in notes and such that others might not count as particularly =
compelling evidence one way or the other. But it's certainly one way th=
at I have found of resolving these questions for my own work. I'd be in=
terested to hear how my fellow Feanatics have resolved the same tangle of s=
ources into their own conclusions. :)


I will think on your third qu=
estion and flip through some books before answering; for now, I am off to m=
ix salad dressing for my husband preparing supper. :)

Dawn

--=
 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/

http://www.silmarillionwritersguil=
d.org


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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
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THANKS!! 

I'll use Oshun's essay (thanks for providing the link). 

I'm pl=
anning to lift a line from "Aliens" in one of the chapters - can I get away=
 with it? 

//"Ai! Nerdanel," snapped F=EBan=E1ro, "have you ever been mist=
aken for a man?"

"No," she replied with a flippant lift of an eyebrow. "Ha=
ve you?"//

I blame Pandemonium for that - she told me to use "man" instead=
 of "Elf" as a word for male! Well, that particular bunny keeps nibbling at=
 me, so should I resist temptation? ;P

Have a pleasant evening. :D





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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
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Hi, Wendy,

In terms of site rules, a note at the end of the chapter about where the
lines came from would erase all concern. :) Although I would not have picked
up on the source if you hadn't mentioned it ... but it's been a while since
I've seen *Aliens.*

I'm glad that the information was useful. I'm feeling under the weather
today, so I'll see what I can find research-wise on Indis tomorrow.

Best regards,

Dawn



-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d626992d0b3e047ced019f
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Hi, Wendy,

In terms of site rules, a note at the end of the chapter =
about where the lines came from would erase all concern. :) Although I woul=
d not have picked up on the source if you hadn't mentioned it ... but i=
t's been a while since I've seen Aliens.


I'm gla=
d that the information was useful. I'm feeling under the weather today,=
 so I'll see what I can find research-wise on Indis tomorrow.

Be=
st regards,

Dawn



-- 

~oOo~
Dawn =
Felagund
http://=
themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



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Hahaha! That was very, very funny, Wendy! *grin*
=C2=A0
Whoaa. I thought th=
at the marriage was when Feanaro was 12 years old? Hmm... :uncertain: Well,=
 anyway, I am not an expert in obscure years and matters. :sheepish: I will=
 try to help, though... That is, if no one else has. I am feeling quite ina=
dequate now...
=C2=A0
- Rey


--- On Mon, 1/11/10, Wendy  wrote:


From: Wendy 
Subject: [Silm=
arillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@=
yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 7:06 PM


=C2=A0 



THANKS=
!! 

I'll use Oshun's essay (thanks for providing the link). 

I'm planning=
 to lift a line from "Aliens" in one of the chapters - can I get away with =
it? 

//"Ai! Nerdanel," snapped F=C3=ABan=C3=A1ro, "have you ever been mist=
aken for a man?"

"No," she replied with a flippant lift of an eyebrow. "Ha=
ve you?"//

I blame Pandemonium for that - she told me to use "man" instead=
 of "Elf" as a word for male! Well, that particular bunny keeps nibbling at=
 me, so should I resist temptation? ;P

Have a pleasant evening. :D







=


      
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hahaha! That was very, very funny, Wendy=
! *grin*


 


Whoaa. I thought that the marriage wa=
s when Feanaro was 12 years old? Hmm... :uncertain: Well, anyway, I am not =
an expert in obscure years and matters. :sheepish: I will try to help, thou=
gh... That is, if no one else has. I am feeling quite inadequate now...

 


- Rey




--- On Mon, 1/11/10, =
Wendy  wrote:


From: Wendy 
Subje=
ct: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
To: SilmarillionW=
ritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 7:06 PM
<=
BR>

  


THANKS!! 

I'll use Oshun's essay (thanks for p=
roviding the link). 

I'm planning to lift a line from "Aliens" in on=
e of the chapters - can I get away with it? 

//"Ai! Nerdanel," snapp=
ed F=C3=ABan=C3=A1ro, "have you ever been mistaken for a man?"

"No,"=
 she replied with a flippant lift of an eyebrow. "Have you?"//

I bla=
me Pandemonium for that - she told me to use "man" instead of "Elf" as a wo=
rd for male! Well, that particular bunny keeps nibbling at me, so should I =
resist temptation? ;P

Have a pleasant evening. :D




      
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Thanks, Rey.

I'm as cheeky as the day is long, and will take the most impu=
dent liberties sometimes!

I've sent a first draft to my new beta, Aspiring=
 Mythmaker, who doesn't write for our fandom but is brilliant at the techni=
cal stuff. I do need a fandom beta, though. If anyone wants to volunteer fo=
r the job, I'd really appreciate it.

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo=
groups.com, melissa chandra  wrote:
>
> Hahaha! That was v=
ery, very funny, Wendy! *grin*
> =C2=A0
> Whoaa. I thought that the marriag=
e was when Feanaro was 12 years old? Hmm... :uncertain: Well, anyway, I am =
not an expert in obscure years and matters. :sheepish: I will try to help, =
though... That is, if no one else has. I am feeling quite inadequate now...=

> =C2=A0
> - Rey




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Get well soon, Dawn. 

If it's a cold, First Defence or something similar =
may help. 



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From: melissa chandra 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
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LOL
=C2=A0
Anyway... I found something rather confusing in Silmarillion reg=
arding the marriage of Finwe and Indis... It says that "It came to past tha=
t after three years more Finw=C3=AB took as second wife Indis the fair." I =
am not certain if he did that after the span of 12 years of the=C2=A0time s=
et by the=C2=A0Valar, or after=C2=A0Feanor's marriage to Nerdanel. ("Early =
youth"! How early is that? I suppose Dawn took her below-majority-age marri=
age between the two from that particular phrase. (Forgive me if I am mistak=
en, Dawn!)) The count of time in Silm is rather vague... but I have no othe=
r source yet (despite Dawn's helping me get more by the. :embarrassed:)
=C2=
=A0
And I think Feanaro (and later, the Noldor, on hindsight) held Indis in=
 silent contempt/accusation. It is both said and hinted in this paragraph (=
Silm):
=C2=A0
"The wedding of the father was not pleasing to F=C3=ABanor; a=
nd though it did not lessen the love between them, F=C3=ABanor had no great=
 love for Indis or her children. As soon as he might he lived apart from th=
em, exploring the land of Aman, or busying himself with the lore and the cr=
afts in which he delighted. In those unhappy things which later came to pas=
s, and in which F=C3=ABanor was the leader, many saw the effect of this bre=
ach in the house of Finw=C3=AB, judging that if Finw=C3=AB had endured his =
loss and had been content with the fathering of his mighty son, the courses=
 of F=C3=ABanor would have been otherwise, and great sorrow and evil might =
have been prevented; for the sorrow and the strife in the house of Finw=C3=
=AB is graven in the memory of the Noldorin Elves. But the children of Indi=
s were great and glorious, and their children also; and if they had not liv=
ed the history of the Eldar would have been diminished."
=C2=A0
Okay... the=
 answers were not satisfying, but I did my best. :sheepish: And for the off=
er to beta, I would love to help. ;)
=C2=A0
- Rey
=C2=A0


--- On Tue, 1/12=
/10, Wendy  wrote:


From: Wendy 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
=
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 201=
0, 5:32 AM


=C2=A0 



Thanks, Rey.

I'm as cheeky as the day is long, and=
 will take the most impudent liberties sometimes!

I've sent a first draft =
to my new beta, Aspiring Mythmaker, who doesn't write for our fandom but is=
 brilliant at the technical stuff. I do need a fandom beta, though. If anyo=
ne wants to volunteer for the job, I'd really appreciate it.

--- In Silmar=
illionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, melissa chandra  wr=
ote:
>
> Hahaha! That was very, very funny, Wendy! *grin*
> =C3=82=C2=A0
> =
Whoaa. I thought that the marriage was when Feanaro was 12 years old? Hmm..=
. :uncertain: Well, anyway, I am not an expert in obscure years and matters=
. :sheepish: I will try to help, though... That is, if no one else has. I a=
m feeling quite inadequate now...
> =C3=82=C2=A0
> - Rey









      
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LOL


 


Anyway.=
.. I found something rather confusing in Silmarillion regarding the marriag=
e of Finwe and Indis... It says that "It came to past that after three =
years more Finw=C3=AB took as second wife Indis the fair." I am not cer=
tain if he did that after the span of 12 years of the time set by the&=
nbsp;Valar, or after Feanor's marriage to Nerdanel. ("Early youth"! Ho=
w early is that? I suppose Dawn took her below-majority-age marriage betwee=
n the two from that particular phrase. (Forgive me if I am
 mistaken, Dawn!=
)) The count of time in Silm is rather vague... but I have no other source =
yet (despite Dawn's helping me get more by the. :embarrassed:)


 


And I think Feanaro (a=
nd later, the Noldor, on hindsight) held Indis in silent contempt/accusatio=
n. It is both said and hinted in this paragraph (Silm):


 

"The weddi=
ng of the father was not pleasing to F=C3=ABanor; and though it did not les=
sen the love between them, F=C3=ABanor had no great love for Indis or her c=
hildren. As soon as he might he lived apart from them, exploring the land o=
f Aman, or busying himself with the lore and the crafts in which he delight=
ed. In those unhappy things which later came to pass, and in which F=C3=ABa=
nor was the leader, many saw the effect of this breach in the house of Finw=
=C3=AB, judging that if Finw=C3=AB had endured his loss and had been conten=
t with the fathering of his mighty son, the courses of F=C3=ABanor would ha=
ve been otherwise, and great sorrow and evil might have been prevented; for the sorrow and the strife =
in the house of Finw=C3=AB is graven in the memory of the Noldorin Elves. B=
ut the children of Indis were
 great and glorious, and their children also;=
 and if they had not lived the history of the Eldar would have been diminis=
hed."


 


Oka=
y... the answers were not satisfying, but I did my best. :sheepish: And for=
 the offer to beta, I would love to help. ;)


 


-=
 Rey


 




--- On Tue, 1/12/10, Wendy =
 wrote:



From: Wendy 
Subject: [Silm=
arillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
To: SilmarillionWritersGui=
ld@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 5:32 AM


  



Thanks, Rey.

I'm as cheeky as the day is long, and wi=
ll take the most impudent liberties sometimes!

I've sent a first dra=
ft to my new beta, Aspiring Mythmaker, who doesn't write for our fandom but=
 is brilliant at the technical stuff. I do need a fandom beta, though. If a=
nyone wants to volunteer for the job, I'd really appreciate it.

--- =
In SilmarillionWriters Guild@=
yahoogroup s.com, melissa chandra  wrote:
&g=
t;
> Hahaha! That was very, very funny, Wendy! *grin*
> =C3=82&=
nbsp;
> Whoaa. I thought that the marriage was when Feanaro was 12 ye=
ars old? Hmm... :uncertain: Well, anyway, I am not an expert in obscure yea=
rs and matters. :sheepish: I will try to help, though... That is, if no one=
 else has. I am
 feeling quite inadequate now...
> =C3=82 
&g=
t; - Rey




    =
  
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From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
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Groovy! Thanks, Rey. I shall email you my first draft of The Apprentice, Ch=
apter 1, in a bit.





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From: "surgeon_ruth" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
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Hey, Wend - you know me better as SurgicalSteel in other locations. Just a =
thought for you regarding your title?

Pandemonium actually took first plac=
e in the MEFAs 'Villains: General' Category in 2008 for a story entitled 'T=
he Apprentice.' While I'm certain your story will be very different than he=
rs, you may want to consider a title change just to avoid people seeing the=
 title and going no further - some readers will see the title and say 'Oh, =
I've read that already' without realizing that they're in fact two differen=
t stories. 

I'm not telling you how to write, and it's hardly a copyrighte=
d title - but it's just something you may want to think about.

--- In Silm=
arillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Wendy"  wrote:
>
> =
Groovy! Thanks, Rey. I shall email you my first draft of The Apprentice, Ch=
apter 1, in a bit.
>




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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
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Noted. Thanks, Ruth. :D

BTW, I've made changes to the other fic. 

Chapte=
r 1 of this fic is going to Rey now for beta-ing. :D

--- In SilmarillionWr=
itersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "surgeon_ruth"  wrote:
>
> Hey, =
Wend - you know me better as SurgicalSteel in other locations. Just a thoug=
ht for you regarding your title?
> 
> Pandemonium actually took first place=
 in the MEFAs 'Villains: General' Category in 2008 for a story entitled 'Th=
e Apprentice.' While I'm certain your story will be very different than her=
s, you may want to consider a title change just to avoid people seeing the =
title and going no further - some readers will see the title and say 'Oh, I=
've read that already' without realizing that they're in fact two different=
 stories. 
> 
> I'm not telling you how to write, and it's hardly a copyrig=
hted title - but it's just something you may want to think about.
> 
> --- =
In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Wendy"  wrote:
=
> >
> > Groovy! Thanks, Rey. I shall email you my first draft of The Appren=
tice, Chapter 1, in a bit.
> >
>




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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
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Okay, it's now "Mahtan's Apprentice."

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yaho=
ogroups.com, "surgeon_ruth"  wrote:
>
> Hey, Wend - you know=
 me better as SurgicalSteel in other locations. Just a thought for you rega=
rding your title?
> 
> Pandemonium actually took first place in the MEFAs '=
Villains: General' Category in 2008 for a story entitled 'The Apprentice.' =
While I'm certain your story will be very different than hers, you may want=
 to consider a title change just to avoid people seeing the title and going=
 no further - some readers will see the title and say 'Oh, I've read that a=
lready' without realizing that they're in fact two different stories. 
> 
>=
 I'm not telling you how to write, and it's hardly a copyrighted title - bu=
t it's just something you may want to think about.
> 
> --- In Silmarillion=
WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Wendy"  wrote:
> >
> > Groovy!=
 Thanks, Rey. I shall email you my first draft of The Apprentice, Chapter 1=
, in a bit.
> >
>




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I'm going to try to answer multiple emails at once so as not to spam the
li=
st. :)

Rey inquired about Feanor's age at marriage being twelve years of a=
ge. I've
never seen this in the texts, so if anyone has any further informa=
tion on
where that may have come from, I'd be much obliged. :) I have molde=
ring on
Pengolodh (my laptop) at home a reference I've been working on for =
some
years now that tacks all of the different timelines together, and none=
 of
the annals of Valinor/Aman note a date for Feanor's marriage. Rey, as y=
ou
noted, I do use "early youth" to justify that it was before Feanor was f=
ifty
years old, or before 1219 YV. To the best of my knowledge, beyond that=
, it's
open to interpretation.

Rey, the passage you noted where Finwe marr=
ied Indis after three more years
comes from "The Story of Finwe and Miriel"=
 in HoMe X. I had wanted to reread
this anyway in answer to Wendy's third q=
uestion, so I just reread it now.
The earliest version (which is not terrib=
ly long, so I'll tack it onto the
bottom here) added a date to the timeline=
 from AAm, indicating that two
years passed between Miriel's "death" and th=
e judgment of the Valar
concerning Finwe's desire to remarry. They required=
 a ten-year wait before
"disunion," after which an additional three years p=
assed before Finwe and
Indis married (as Rey quoted). That adds to the time=
line I posted earlier:

1169 YV: Feanor born
1170 YV: Miriel dies
1172 YV: =
judgment of the Valar concerning Finwe and Miriel
1182 YV: "disunion" of ma=
rriage of Finwe and Miriel
1185 YV: Finwe weds Indis
1219 YV (or earlier): =
weds Nerdanel
1219 YV (or later): begins learning from Mahtan
1250 YV: begi=
ns Tengwar and working with gemstones

In a later version, Finwe waits twel=
ve years before approaching the Valar
and the waiting period for disunion i=
s also twelve years. The same three
years pass between disunion and his mar=
riage to Indis, for a total of
twenty-seven years between Miriel's death an=
d his remarriage.

Wendy, in answer to your third question, the strongest e=
vidence I have found
thus far for Feanor speaking out against Indis is the =
passage that Rey
quoted from the Silm (which can also be found in the "Finw=
e and Miriel"
chapter in the HoMe: "The wedding of his father was not pleas=
ing to F=C3=ABanor;
and he had no great love for Indis, nor for Fingolfin a=
nd Finarfin, her
sons. He lived apart from them, exploring the land of Aman=
, or busying
himself with the knowledge and the crafts in which he delighte=
d" ("Of
Feanor"). So, to the best of my knowledge, Feanor's declarations of=
 contempt
for Indis are fanon ... logically derived, perhaps, but fanon non=
etheless.
:)

I will take a closer look at these texts when I get home. I a=
m using my
e-books right now, and my eyes can't take much more Courier text=
!

Dawn

THE EARLIEST VERSION OF THE STORY OF FINWE AND
MIRIEL.

Now it is =
told that in the bearing of her son Miriel was consumed  in
spirit  and  bo=
dy;  and  that   after  his   birth  she
yearned  for  rest  from  the  lab=
our  of  living.  And  she  said to
Finwe: 'Never again shall  I bear  a ch=
ild;  for strength  that would
have  nourished  the  life  of  many  has  g=
one forth  into Feanaro.'*
Then  Manwe  granted  the  prayer   of  Miriel. =
  And  she   went  to
Lorien,  and  laid  her  down  to  sleep  upon   a  b=
ed   of  flowers
[)  beneath  a  silver  tree];  and  there  her  fair  bod=
y  remained
unwithered in  the keeping  of the  maidens of  Este. But  her =
spirit
passed to rest in the halls of Mandos.

Finwe's grief was great, and=
 he gave to  his son  all the  love that
he  had for  Miriel; for  Feanaro =
was  like his  mother in  voice and
countenance.  Yet  Finwe  was  not  con=
tent, and  he desired  to have
more   children.   He   spoke,  therefore,  =
 [>  After   some  years,
therefore,  he  spoke]  to  Manwe,  saying:   'Lo=
rd,  behold!   I  am
bereaved;  and  alone  among  the  Eldar  I  am  witho=
ut a  wife, and
must  hope  for  no  sons   save  one,   and  no   daughter=
.  Whereas
Ingwe  and  Olwe  beget  many  children  in the  bliss of  Aman.=
 Must
I  remain  ever  so? For  I deem  that Miriel  will not  return again=

ever from the house of Vaire.'

Then  Manwe  considered  the  words  of  F=
inwe;  and  after  a  time
he  summoned  all  the  counsellors  of  the  El=
dar,  and   in  their
hearing  Mandos  spoke  this  doom:  'This  is  the  =
law  of Iluvatar
for you [> This is the way of  life that  Iluvatar hath  o=
rdained for
you],  his  children,  as you  know well:  the First-born  shal=
l take
one  spouse  only  and  have  no  other  in  this  life,  while  Ard=
a
endureth.  But  this  law  takes   no  account   [)  But   herein  no
acc=
ount  is  taken]  of  Death.  This  doom  is  therefore  now made,
by  the =
 right  of  lawgiving  that  Iluvatar  committed   to  Manwe:
that  if  the=
  spirit  of a  spouse, husband  or wife,  forsaking the
body,  shall  for =
any  cause pass  into the  keeping of  Mandos, then
the living shall be per=
mitted to  take another  spouse. But  this can
only be, if the  former unio=
n  be dissolved  for ever.  Therefore the
one that is  in the  keeping of  =
Mandos must  there remain  until the
end  of Arda,  and shall  not awake  a=
gain or  take bodily  form. For
none  among  the  Quendi  shall have  two s=
pouses  at one  time alive
and awake. But since it is not to be thought  th=
at the  living shall,
by  his  or  her  will  alone,  confine  the spirit  =
of the  other to
Mandos,  this  disunion shall  come to  pass only  by the =
 consent of
both.  And  after  the  giving  of  the  consent ten  years of =
 the Valar
shall  pass  ere  Mandos  confirms  it.  Within  that  time  eit=
her party
may   revoke   this   consent;   but  when   Mandos  has   confir=
med  it,
and  the  living  spouse  has  wedded  another,  it shall  be irre=
vocable
until the end of Arda. This is the doom of Namo in this matter.'

I=
t  is  said  that  Miriel  answered  Mandos  saying:  'I   came  hither
to =
escape from  the body,  and I  do not  desire ever  to return  to it';
and =
 after  ten  years  the   doom  of   disunion  was   spoken.  [Added:
And  =
Miriel  has  dwelt  ever  since  in the  house of  Vaire, and  it is
her  p=
art  to record  there the  histories of  the kin  of Finwe  and all
the  de=
eds  of  the  Noldor.]  And   in  the   years  following   [>  But
when  th=
ree  years  more  had  passed]  Finwe   took  as   second  spouse
Indis  of=
  the  Vanyar,  of the  kin [>  sister] of  Ingwe; and  she bore
five  fair=
  children  of  whom  her  two  sons   are  most   renowned  in
the  histor=
ies  of  the  Noldor.  But  her eldest  child was  a daughter,
Findis,  and=
  she  bore  also  two  other  daughters:  Irime  and  Faniel
[> Faniel and=
 Irime].

The  wedding  of   the  father   was  not   pleasing  to   Feanar=
o;  and
though  the  love  between  them  was  not   lessened,  Feanaro   h=
ad  no
great  love  for  Indis  or  her  children, and  as soon  as he  mig=
ht he
lived   apart   from  them,   being  busy   from  early   childhood  =
upon
the  lore  and  craft  in  which  he  delighted,   and  he   laboured =
 at
many tasks, being in all pursuits eager and swift.

(* [footnote to the=
 text] Thus she named her son: Spirit-of-Fire: and
 by that name  he was  k=
nown among  the Eldar.  [Feanaro is  so spelt
 here, but Feanaro subsequent=
ly.]

(from HoMe X)

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/hereti=
c_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d77e3e8d159c047cfada3d
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I'm going to try to answer multiple emails at once so as not to sp=
am the list. :)


=C2=A0


Rey inquired about Feanor'=
s age at marriage being twelve years of age. I've never seen this in th=
e texts, so if anyone has any further information on where that may have co=
me from, I'd be much obliged. :) I have moldering on Pengolodh (my lapt=
op) at home a reference I've been working on for some years now that ta=
cks all of the different timelines together, and none of the annals of Vali=
nor/Aman note a date for Feanor's marriage. Rey, as you noted, I do use=
 "early youth" to justify that it was before Feanor was fifty yea=
rs old, or before 1219 YV. To the best of my knowledge, beyond that, it'=
;s open to interpretation.



=C2=A0


Rey, the passage y=
ou noted where Finwe married Indis after three more years comes from "=
The Story of Finwe and Miriel" in HoMe X. I had wanted to reread this =
anyway in answer to Wendy's third question, so I just reread it now. Th=
e earliest version (which is not terribly long, so I'll tack it onto th=
e bottom here) added a date to the timeline from AAm, indicating that two y=
ears passed between Miriel's "death" and the judgment of the =
Valar concerning Finwe's desire to remarry. They required a ten-year wa=
it before "disunion," after which an additional three years passe=
d before Finwe and Indis married (as Rey quoted). That adds to the timeline=
 I posted earlier:



=C2=A0


1169 YV: Feanor born
11=
70 YV: Miriel dies


1172 YV: judgment of the Valar concerning Fin=
we and Miriel


1182 YV: "disunion" of marriage of Finwe=
 and Miriel
1185 YV: Finwe weds Indis
1219 YV (or earlier): weds Nerd=
anel
1219 YV (or later): begins learning from Mahtan
1250 YV: begins =
Tengwar and working with gemstones



=C2=A0


In a=C2=A0=
later version, Finwe waits twelve years before approaching the Valar and th=
e waiting period for disunion is also twelve years. The same three years pa=
ss between disunion and his marriage to Indis, for a total of twenty-seven =
years between Miriel's death and his remarriage.




Dawn


=C2=A0



-- 
~oOo~
=
Dawn Felagund
ht=
tp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

<=
/div>

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From: CGL 
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--- On Thu, 14/1/10, Doc Bushwell  wrote:

> > Me =
PWNed!
> >
> 
> What is this strange tongue in which you speak? 

>From a li=
nguistics perspective, I'd say that looks like chatspeak, a precursor to th=
e more well known lolcat, both of the network-intertubes family of language=
s.

CGL


      


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--0016e6d78455275b95047d2553ca
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On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Wendy  wrote:
> So I take it that the use of "Elfling" is wrong, then? If I can't justify
it, I can't use it.

Of course you can! This is, after all, creative writing, so we are allowed
to create based on what makes believable secondary worlds, characters,
languages, et cetera; we are not beholden to only what has been dreamed and
invented (and recorded) by JRRT. And we are allowed to create based on
simply *liking* something too. If I like the sound of "The elfling ran
through the waterfall" as compared to "The child ran through the waterfall,"
then I think that's as legitimate a reason as any to do as I wish.

This is the whole problem I have with the "canon" obsession in this fandom:
the need to somehow prove something as legitimate in the context of the
original works and not in the context of the story in which they appear. No,
indeed, Tolkien never used *elfling*; it may have been that he would have
hated the thought of it and never used it. (Who knows? I've never personally
had much luck getting him on my Ouija board! ;) I have seen the same
argument made against "modernisms" like *couch* or words of French origin or
"Americanisms" and American spellings. I doubt he would have ever used *
neuroransmitter* either, but Pandemonium's stories would definitely lose
something if she followed him in that or tried to come up with a "suitably
Tolkienesque" alternative. If taken to the extreme, the need to justify
everything in our stories against the texts would rob us of many of our
ideas, to say nothing of words, at the ultimate price of creativity and the
ability of each of us to express *our* voices as authors. But it would allow
for the inclusion of freight trains and other "canonical" oddities that made
their way into JRRT's writings over the years.

The quick canonical justification that I give when given a hard time about
my choice of words or ideas or the fact that I *realize colors* rather than
*realise colours* is this: JRRT viewed himself as a translator in putting
together his books. He was translating ancient mythological sources into his
early- to mid-20th-century version of British English.

Each of us, likewise, is a translator. We put the stories and myths that
have captured our imagination--through reading JRRT's "translations"--into
our own speech, our own language. We color them with our own imaginations.
"Canon" connects those imaginings in many ways but each author's voice and
vision, to me, is really what makes fiction worth reading.

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

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On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Wendy <wendwriter1@googlemail.com> wrote:
> So I take it that the use of "Elfling" is wr=
ong, then? If I can't justify it, I can't use it. 



=C2=
=A0


Of course you can! This is, after all, creative writing, so =
we are allowed to create based on what makes believable secondary worlds, c=
haracters, languages, et cetera; we are not beholden to only what has been =
dreamed and invented (and recorded) by JRRT. And we are allowed to create b=
ased on simply liking something too. If I like the sound of "=
The elfling ran through the waterfall" as compared to "The child =
ran through the waterfall," then I think that's as legitimate a re=
ason as any to do as I wish.



=C2=A0


This is the whol=
e problem I have with the "canon" obsession in this fandom: the n=
eed to somehow prove something as legitimate in the context of the original=
 works and not in the context of the story in which they appear. No, indeed=
, Tolkien never used elfling; it may have been that he would have =
hated the thought of it and never used it. (Who knows? I've never perso=
nally had much luck getting him on my Ouija board! ;) I have seen the same =
argument made against "modernisms" like couch or words o=
f French origin or "Americanisms" and American spellings. I doubt=
 he would have ever used neuroransmitter either, but Pandemonium&#=
39;s stories would definitely lose something if she followed him in that or=
 tried to come up with a "suitably Tolkienesque" alternative. If =
taken to the extreme, the need to justify everything in our stories against=
 the texts would rob us of many of our ideas, to say nothing of words, at t=
he ultimate price of creativity and the ability of each of us to express our voices as authors. But it would allow for the inclusion of freig=
ht trains and other "canonical" oddities that made their way into=
 JRRT's writings over the years.



=C2=A0


The quic=
k canonical justification that I give when given a hard time about my choic=
e of words or ideas or the fact that I realize colors rather than =
realise colours=C2=A0is this: JRRT viewed himself as a translator =
in putting together his books. He was translating ancient mythological sour=
ces into his early- to mid-20th-century version of British English.


=

=C2=A0


Each of us, likewise, is a translator. We put the st=
ories and myths that have captured our imagination--through reading JRRT=
9;s "translations"--into our own speech, our own language. We col=
or them with our own imaginations. "Canon" connects those imagini=
ngs in many ways but each author's voice and vision, to me, is really w=
hat makes fiction worth reading.



=C2=A0


Dawn

<=
div>
-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwr=
itersguild.org




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Hi, all,

A multi-fandom LJ community has been set up to auction off fannish goods and
services in exchange for a donation to an organization currently aiding with
disaster relief efforts in Haiti. I just did a quick scroll through the
community and they are accepting for auction everything from stories to
artwork to beta-reading services. Since we have many talented people here, I
wanted to post a link in case anyone was interested in participating:

http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/

Best regards,

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

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Hi, all,

A multi-fandom LJ community has been set up to auction off =
fannish goods and services in exchange for a donation to an organization cu=
rrently aiding with disaster relief efforts in Haiti. I just did a quick sc=
roll through the community and they are accepting for auction everything fr=
om stories to artwork to beta-reading services. Since we have many talented=
 people here, I wanted to post a link in case anyone was interested in part=
icipating:


http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/

Best regards,
<=
br>Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_=
loremaster/

htt=
p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org


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From: Marta 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elvish and all that
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X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva

Just thought I'd throw this in...

 From _Lord of the Rings_, just as Merry and Pippin are slipping into 
Fangorn, JRRT describes them as "little furtive figures that in the pale 
light looked like elf-children in the deeps of time." I'm going from 
memory so a word or two may be off. (It's one of my favorite 
descriptions, so it sticks in my head.) My point is that in the most 
widely-accepted-as-canon book, we have young elves being described as 
elf-children. Given that this book was written in the form as a text for 
hobbits, I'd argue that children would be just as appropriate if the 
narrator and all the children were elves.

Doesn't make elflings *wrong*, but there does seem to be precedent to 
use elf-children.

Marta


>> [Q]That last sentence indicates the youngsters of the two kindred are not grossly different.  So  just plain "children" when writing of a homogeneous population of Firstborn (that is, no mortals around) seems accurate enough to me.[/Q]
>>
>> So I take it that the use of "Elfling" is wrong, then? If I can't justify it, I can't use it. 
>>     
>
> I would not go so far as to say it is *wrong*.  I have encountered the term used in the hands of a skilled writer, in which case "elfling" works quite nicely.  But in other hands, to *my* ears, it can sound sort of precious.  I'm simply more inclined to use constructs like elf-man, elf-woman (which JRRT used as well) and elf-child. See also CGL's comments which made their way to the list as I was typing this.
>
>
>   




From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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[Q]From a linguistics perspective, I'd say that looks like chatspeak, a pre=
cursor to the more well known lolcat, both of the network-intertubes family=
 of languages.[/Q]

Guilty as charged. I'm addicted to lolcats. I don't usu=
ally use chatspeak, except for effect to amuse my friends because it hurts =
my head to have to keep translating it into English and back. 

It's cool t=
hat there is still wiggle-room, but great is my desire to be taken seriousl=
y as a writer, though my writing be fanfiction. Verily I shall use "elf-chi=
ldren," and suffer the use of "elfling" no more in mine own works, while ac=
cepting that it is not completely incorrect. 

One thing I struggle with, a=
s you may have noticed (yes, I was using the archaicisms for effect to amus=
e you) is the proper use of archaicisms in my work. I get around it by only=
 having some of the characters use it while the others use more modern Engl=
ish. The reason is, I can't express myself well in older forms, and find it=
 hard to describe action and appearance therein. I've found some websites t=
hat are helpful for vocabulary:

http://www.mun.ca/Ansaxdat/vocab/wordlist.=
html

http://www.fact-archive.com/encyclopedia/List_of_archaic_English_word=
s_and_their_modern_equivalents

http://www.antiquusmorbus.com/English/Engli=
shD.htm

http://www.oldandinteresting.com/washing-with-lye.aspx

Now liftin=
g words and phrases from Sir Walter Scott and people like him can help to g=
ive a more authentic feel, but still, I find the need to describe stuff tha=
t I only know modern English words for. Besides, I keep thinking that peopl=
e shouldn't need to keep an encyclopedia and a dictionary on hand in case t=
hey get stuck while reading our stuff. 

Is there another way around this, =
or should I continue to use modern English? I do avoid slang, as a rule, an=
d though I know many of you think it is fine, I never use contractions when=
 Elves are speaking.





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Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elvish and all that
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On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Wendy  wrote:
> It's cool that there is still wiggle-room, but great is my desire to be
taken seriously as a writer, though my writing be fanfiction.

I think that to achieve that depends on what group of writers you are
talking about.

There are archives that care to the point of obsession about "canon
correctness." People who will argue for hours over whether Celegorm was
blond or brown-haired, who have driven authors on occasions to create
author's notes longer than the story to justify their interpretations in
preemptive defense, who will insist that a story with Maglor as a bachelor
be labeled AU because note #7 on the essay *Of Dwarves and Men* in volume 12
of the HoMe said that he was married. They are extremists and, thankfully, a
minority. (They would probably say that I am an extremist too, but for the
opposite perspective. ;)

I think an interesting question to ask is, "Why do you write stories based
on J.R.R. Tolkien's writings?" Different people give different responses,
but I have seen them trend into two directions:

"I want more of what Tolkien wrote. I want to live in his world for just a
few moments longer. I have read all that he has written, so fan fiction
satisfies my desire for more stories like his."

"I want to explore and understand Tolkien's world, how it would have
functioned, both as a myth and as a real place. Through his world, I can
learn about my own. I want to investigate and question and sometimes
challenge the ideas that he used his writing to express, and I do so by
writing fiction and poetry."

I don't think either motive is better than the other, but they certainly
result not only in different styles of stories but different standards for
what counts as quality or serious writing.

The first group tends to care more that the style of writing, the word
choice match what Tolkien himself wrote. The adjective *Tolkienesque* was
invented for their use. :) They choose the interpretation most like what
they imagine Tolkien himself would have chosen. Boromir and Frodo are not
lovers because they cannot imagine that JRRT would have ever made them so.
They like stories that they could imagine fitting seamlessly between two
chapters or sections of the existing text. They tend to look at the second
group's stories and claim they bear no resemblance to Tolkien's world. They
tend to ask the second group, "Why bother to write fanfic? Why not write
original fiction, if you want to do that?"

The second group cares not a whit for matching Tolkien's style. Middle-earth
is a vast playground used for imagining how different scenarios would have
turned out or for asking questions and using stories to answer them. Boromir
and Frodo are lovers because they are interested in how Hobbits and
Gondorians view homosexuality, or because they are intrigued about how the
story would change if that fact were true. They tend to like stories that
use JRRT's writings as a springboard, a setting and a cast of familiar
characters. They tend to say to the first group, "If you want to read
Tolkien, why not just read Tolkien?"

Of course, many people fall between the two. I fall squarely into the second
group, which is probably not surprising to anyone here. To me, the thought
that you will not be taken seriously as a writer because you use a word that
is not attested in the texts, honestly, seems preposterous. (At the same
time that I recognize and acknowledge that the militant fans mentioned at
the start of this post *do* exist and make life miserable for those who do
not meet their exacting standards of "canonicity" on some websites. I
started my Silm-writing career terrified of being "wrong" on factual details
only to discover, over the years, exactly how much flexibility the texts
afford.) To me, you will be taken seriously as a writer if you can create
and present a version of Tolkien's world that I can believe in (even if it
looks nothing like how I imagined it myself), if your use of the texts is
thoughtful and informed rather than simply an attempt to connect a lot of
disparate facts into a storyline, if the storyline builds on rather than
repeats what we see in the texts, and if the characters flesh out beyond the
skeletons JRRT gave us in the Silm. If you use words like *elfling,* if you
use modernisms, if you fail to sound like JRRT, I do not care, so long as
these things work in the context of the story I am reading.

But I recognize that this is not the only way that people look at stories.
:)

So my opinion on Modern English, too, is that I am a fairly young writer
living in the U.S. at the start of the 21st century. That is my voice, so
that is what I use.

Listmates, do you think there are other reasons why people write
Tolkien-based stories other than the two I named here? Why do *you* write
Silm (or LotR) stories?

Dawn


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

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On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Wendy <wendwriter1@googlemail.com> w=
rote:
> It's cool that there is still wiggle-room, but great is m=
y desire to be
taken seriously as a writer, though my writing be fanfiction=
.

I think that to achieve that depends on what group of writers you =
are talking about.

There are archives that care to the point of obse=
ssion about "canon correctness." People who will argue for hours =
over whether Celegorm was blond or brown-haired, who have driven authors on=
 occasions to create author's notes longer than the story to justify th=
eir interpretations in preemptive defense, who will insist that a story wit=
h Maglor as a bachelor be labeled AU because note #7 on the essay Of Dwa=
rves and Men in volume 12 of the HoMe said that he was married. They ar=
e extremists and, thankfully, a minority. (They would probably say that I a=
m an extremist too, but for the opposite perspective. ;)


I think an=
 interesting question to ask is, "Why do you write stories based on J.=
R.R. Tolkien's writings?" Different people give different response=
s, but I have seen them trend into two directions:


"I want mor=
e of what Tolkien wrote. I want to live in his world for just a few moments=
 longer. I have read all that he has written, so fan fiction satisfies my d=
esire for more stories like his."

"I want to explore and u=
nderstand Tolkien's world, how it would have functioned, both as a myth=
 and as a real place. Through his world, I can learn about my own. I want t=
o investigate and question and sometimes challenge the ideas that he used h=
is writing to express, and I do so by writing fiction and poetry."
=


I don't think either motive is better than the other, but they cer=
tainly result not only in different styles of stories but different standar=
ds for what counts as quality or serious writing.

The first group te=
nds to care more that the style of writing, the word choice match what Tolk=
ien himself wrote. The adjective Tolkienesque was invented for their=
 use. :) They choose the interpretation most like what they imagine Tolkien=
 himself would have chosen. Boromir and Frodo are not lovers because they c=
annot imagine that JRRT would have ever made them so. They like stories tha=
t they could imagine fitting seamlessly between two chapters or sections of=
 the existing text. They tend to look at the second group's stories and=
 claim they bear no resemblance to Tolkien's world. They tend to ask th=
e second group, "Why bother to write fanfic? Why not write original fi=
ction, if you want to do that?"


The second group cares not a w=
hit for matching Tolkien's style. Middle-earth is a vast playground use=
d for imagining how different scenarios would have turned out or for asking=
 questions and using stories to answer them. Boromir and Frodo are lovers b=
ecause they are interested in how Hobbits and Gondorians view homosexuality=
, or because they are intrigued about how the story would change if that fa=
ct were true. They tend to like stories that use JRRT's writings as a s=
pringboard, a setting and a cast of familiar characters. They tend to say t=
o the first group, "If you want to read Tolkien, why not just read Tol=
kien?"


Of course, many people fall between the two. I fall squ=
arely into the second group, which is probably not surprising to anyone her=
e. To me, the thought that you will not be taken seriously as a writer beca=
use you use a word that is not attested in the texts, honestly, seems prepo=
sterous. (At the same time that I recognize and acknowledge that the milita=
nt fans mentioned at the start of this post do exist and make life m=
iserable for those who do not meet their exacting standards of "canoni=
city" on some websites. I started my Silm-writing career terrified of =
being "wrong" on factual details only to discover, over the years=
, exactly how much flexibility the texts afford.) To me, you will be taken =
seriously as a writer if you can create and present a version of Tolkien=
9;s world that I can believe in (even if it looks nothing like how I imagin=
ed it myself), if your use of the texts is thoughtful and informed rather t=
han simply an attempt to connect a lot of disparate facts into a storyline,=
 if the storyline builds on rather than repeats what we see in the texts, a=
nd if the characters flesh out beyond the skeletons JRRT gave us in the Sil=
m. If you use words like elfling, if you use modernisms, if you fail=
 to sound like JRRT, I do not care, so long as these things work in the con=
text of the story I am reading.


But I recognize that this is not th=
e only way that people look at stories. :)

So my opinion on Modern E=
nglish, too, is that I am a fairly young writer living in the U.S. at the s=
tart of the 21st century. That is my voice, so that is what I use.


=
Listmates, do you think there are other reasons why people write Tolkien-ba=
sed stories other than the two I named here? Why do you write Silm (=
or LotR) stories?

Dawn


-- 
~oOo~

Daw=
n Felagund
http:=
//themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org


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From: melissa chandra 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti Earthquake Recovery
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I... do not understand. Why do people auxion stories and beta-reading servi=
ces? How? I wish to help, though, still.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
- Rey

--- On Thu, 1=
/14/10, Dawn Felagund  wrote:


From: Dawn Felagund=
 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Commun=
ity to Help Haiti Earthquake Recovery
To: "SWG" 
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 5:56 PM


=C2=A0 



Hi, =
all,

A multi-fandom LJ community has been set up to auction off fannish go=
ods and services in exchange for a donation to an organization currently ai=
ding with disaster relief efforts in Haiti. I just did a quick scroll throu=
gh the community and they are accepting for auction everything from stories=
 to artwork to beta-reading services. Since we have many talented people he=
re, I wanted to post a link in case anyone was interested in participating:=


http://community. livejournal. com/help_ haiti/

Best regards,

Dawn

-- =

~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://w=
ww.silmaril lionwritersguild .org








      
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I... do not understand. Why do people au=
xion stories and beta-reading services? How? I wish to help, though, still.=



 


 


- Rey

--- On Thu,=
 1/14/10, Dawn Felagund  wrote:



From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help H=
aiti Earthquake Recovery
To: "SWG" 
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 5:56 PM



  



Hi, all,

A multi-fandom LJ community has been set up to auc=
tion off fannish goods and services in exchange for a donation to an organi=
zation currently aiding with disaster relief efforts in Haiti. I just did a=
 quick scroll through the community and they are accepting for auction ever=
ything from stories to artwork to beta-reading services. Since we have many=
 talented people here, I wanted to post a link in case anyone was intereste=
d in participating:

http://community. livejournal. com/=
help_ haiti/

Best regards,

Dawn

-- ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ lo=
remaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild
 .org





      
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Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 04:48:33 +0100
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Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti 
	Earthquake Recovery
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To raise money for disaster relief efforts after the earthquake. It took a
=
while to wrap my mind around the concept as well:
People offer to write sto=
ries, make icons, or anything, really. They can
specify a starting bid and =
the highest bidder gets the goods, so far so
good. The difference to a conv=
entional auction is that the payment doesn't
go to the person who offered g=
oods, but rather that the amount the bidders
were willing to pay is donated=
 by the bidder to a charity organization to
help in the aftermath of the ea=
rthquake.

To participate, just take a look around the community. There are=
 several
posts for fic, art, icons and web graphics, food, and special idea=
s, and so
on where you can make an offer that people can bid for. Of course=
 you can
also become a bidder yourself by commenting on an offer with the a=
mount of
money you're willing to bid.

As to why? I suppose donating to dis=
aster relief without some added boon to
themselves isn't enough for some pe=
ople (but then I was called a cranky
misanthrope today already, so that may=
 just be me thinking so and not
necessarily true; no insult meant to anyone=
), for others the auction is an
incentive to spend money in the first place=
, others may not have the money
to donate and still want to help somehow, a=
nd of course it's awesome to see
strangers connect over a common cause, esp=
ecially when it's a fundraising
drive that helps people and demonstrates th=
at fandom is huge and varied but
not nearly as fractured and dysfunctional =
as some voices suggest.

/late-night semi-philosophical musings.

Elleth

2=
010/1/15 melissa chandra 

>
>
> I... do not underst=
and. Why do people auxion stories and beta-reading
> services? How? I wish =
to help, though, still.
>
>
> - Rey
>
> --- On *Thu, 1/14/10, Dawn Felagund=
 * wrote:
>
>
> From: Dawn Felagund 
> Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Ha=
iti
> Earthquake Recovery
> To: "SWG" 
> Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 5:56 PM
>
>
> Hi, all,
>
> A mult=
i-fandom LJ community has been set up to auction off fannish goods
> and se=
rvices in exchange for a donation to an organization currently aiding
> wit=
h disaster relief efforts in Haiti. I just did a quick scroll through the
>=
 community and they are accepting for auction everything from stories to
> =
artwork to beta-reading services. Since we have many talented people here, =
I
> wanted to post a link in case anyone was interested in participating:
>=

> http://community. livejournal. com/help_ haiti/
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dawn
>
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Fela=
gund
> http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
> http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org
>
>
>  
>

--0016e6dab6d7b30d91047d2be0f8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

To raise money for disaster relief efforts after the earthquake. It took a =
while to wrap my mind around the concept as well: 
People offer to write=
 stories, make icons, or anything, really. They can specify a starting bid =
and the highest bidder gets the goods, so far so good. The difference to a =
conventional auction is that the payment doesn't go to the person who o=
ffered goods, but rather that the amount the bidders were willing to pay is=
 donated by the bidder to a charity organization to help in the aftermath o=
f the earthquake. 


To participate, just take a look around the comm=
unity. There are several posts for fic, art, icons and web graphics, food, =
and special ideas, and so on where you can make an offer that people can bi=
d for. Of course you can also become a bidder yourself by commenting on an =
offer with the amount of money you're willing to bid. 


As to wh=
y? I suppose donating to disaster relief without some added boon to themsel=
ves isn't enough for some people (but then I was called a cranky misant=
hrope today already, so that may just be me thinking so and not necessarily=
 true; no insult meant to anyone), for others the auction is an incentive t=
o spend money in the first place, others may not have the money to donate a=
nd still want to help somehow, and of course it's awesome to see strang=
ers connect over a common cause, especially when it's a fundraising dri=
ve that helps people and demonstrates that fandom is huge and varied but no=
t nearly as fractured and dysfunctional as some voices suggest. 


/l=
ate-night semi-philosophical musings.

Elleth

2010/1/15 melissa chandra <melissa_pch@yahoo.com>

















=A0




  


    

      
      
      


I... do not understand. Why do people auxion stories=
 and beta-reading services? How? I wish to help, though, still.


=
=A0


=A0


- Rey

--- On Thu, 1/14/10, Dawn Fel=
agund <Da=
wnFelagund@gmail.com> wrote:



From: Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.c=
om>
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help =
Haiti Earthquake Recovery

To: "SWG" <SilmarillionWriter=
sGuild@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 5:56 PM=




=A0 



Hi, all,
A multi-fandom LJ community has been set up to auction off fannish goods =
and services in exchange for a donation to an organization currently aiding=
 with disaster relief efforts in Haiti. I just did a quick scroll through t=
he community and they are accepting for auction everything from stories to =
artwork to beta-reading services. Since we have many talented people here, =
I wanted to post a link in case anyone was interested in participating:
=


http://community. livejournal. com/help_ haiti/
Best regards,

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn F=
elagund

http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild
 .org
=






      

  =
  

     

    
    








  










--0016e6dab6d7b30d91047d2be0f8--


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MIME-Version: 1.0
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From: melissa chandra 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti  Earthquake Recovery
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Thanks, elleth! Well, then, I guess it is the time I should try my luck at =
venturing to LJ again... Hee. :embarrassed: I created an account in LJ for =
SWG, but till now have never tried again to navigate there. The online worl=
d is much different when you are using a screen reader! *sigh* Thanks for t=
he speedy reply, though. Now I understand.
=C2=A0
- Rey

--- On Thu, 1/14/1=
0, Elleth  wrote:


From: Elleth 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom C=
ommunity to Help Haiti Earthquake Recovery
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yah=
oogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 10:48 PM


=C2=A0 



To rai=
se money for disaster relief efforts after the earthquake. It took a while =
to wrap my mind around the concept as well: 
People offer to write stories,=
 make icons, or anything, really. They can specify a starting bid and the h=
ighest bidder gets the goods, so far so good. The difference to a conventio=
nal auction is that the payment doesn't go to the person who offered goods,=
 but rather that the amount the bidders were willing to pay is donated by t=
he bidder to a charity organization to help in the aftermath of the earthqu=
ake. 

To participate, just take a look around the community. There are sev=
eral posts for fic, art, icons and web graphics, food, and special ideas, a=
nd so on where you can make an offer that people can bid for. Of course you=
 can also become a bidder yourself by commenting on an offer with the amoun=
t of money you're willing to bid. 

As to why? I suppose donating to disast=
er relief without some added boon to themselves isn't enough for some peopl=
e (but then I was called a cranky misanthrope today already, so that may ju=
st be me thinking so and not necessarily true; no insult meant to anyone), =
for others the auction is an incentive to spend money in the first place, o=
thers may not have the money to donate and still want to help somehow, and =
of course it's awesome to see strangers connect over a common cause, especi=
ally when it's a fundraising drive that helps people and demonstrates that =
fandom is huge and varied but not nearly as fractured and dysfunctional as =
some voices suggest. 

/late-night semi-philosophical musings.

Elleth


20=
10/1/15 melissa chandra 


=C2=A0 








I... do =
not understand. Why do people auxion stories and beta-reading services? How=
? I wish to help, though, still.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
- Rey

--- On Thu, 1/14/10, =
Dawn Felagund  wrote:


From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Fandom Community t=
o Help Haiti Earthquake Recovery
To: "SWG" 
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 5:56 PM


=C2=A0 


Hi, all,=


A multi-fandom LJ community has been set up to auction off fannish goods =
and services in exchange for a donation to an organization currently aiding=
 with disaster relief efforts in Haiti. I just did a quick scroll through t=
he community and they are accepting for auction everything from stories to =
artwork to beta-reading services. Since we have many talented people here, =
I wanted to post a link in case anyone was interested in participating:

ht=
tp://community. livejournal. com/help_ haiti/

Best regards,

Dawn

-- 
~oO=
o~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.s=
ilmaril lionwritersguild .org











      
--0-328659761-1263532888=:25250
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Thanks, elleth! Well, then, I guess it i=
s the time I should try my luck at venturing to LJ again... Hee. :embarrass=
ed: I created an account in LJ for SWG, but till now have never tried again=
 to navigate there. The online world is much different when you are using a=
 screen reader! *sigh* Thanks for the speedy reply, though. Now I understan=
d.


 


- Rey

--- On Thu, 1/14/10, Elleth=
  wrote:


From: Elleth <=
BR>Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti E=
arthquake Recovery
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date:=
 Thursday, January 14, 2010, 10:48 PM



  



To raise m=
oney for disaster relief efforts after the earthquake. It took a while to w=
rap my mind around the concept as well: 
People offer to write stories, =
make icons, or anything, really. They can specify a starting bid and the hi=
ghest bidder gets the goods, so far so good. The difference to a convention=
al auction is that the payment doesn't go to the person who offered goods, =
but rather that the amount the bidders were willing to pay is donated by th=
e bidder to a charity organization to help in the aftermath of the earthqua=
ke. 

To participate, just take a look around the community. There ar=
e several posts for fic, art, icons and web graphics, food, and special ide=
as, and so on where you can make an offer that people can bid for. Of cours=
e you can also become a bidder yourself by commenting on an offer with the =
amount of money you're willing to bid. 

As to why? I suppose donatin=
g to disaster relief without some added boon to
 themselves isn't enough fo=
r some people (but then I was called a cranky misanthrope today already, so=
 that may just be me thinking so and not necessarily true; no insult meant =
to anyone), for others the auction is an incentive to spend money in the fi=
rst place, others may not have the money to donate and still want to help s=
omehow, and of course it's awesome to see strangers connect over a common c=
ause, especially when it's a fundraising drive that helps people and demons=
trates that fandom is huge and varied but not nearly as fractured and dysfu=
nctional as some voices suggest. 

/late-night semi-philosophical mus=
ings.

Elleth



2010/1/15 melissa chan=
dra <melissa_pch@ yahoo.com>

  
<=
DIV>













I... do not understand. Why=
 do people auxion stories and beta-reading services? How? I wish to help, t=
hough, still.


 


 


- Rey

-=
-- On Thu, 1/14/10, Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@ gmail.com> wrote:



From: Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@ gmail.com<=
/A>>
Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Fandom Community to Help Ha=
iti Earthquake Recovery
To: "SWG" <SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com>
Date: Thurs=
day, January 14, 2010, 5:56 PM



  




Hi, all,

A multi-fandom LJ community has been set =
up to auction off fannish goods and services in exchange for a donation to =
an organization currently aiding with disaster relief efforts in Haiti. I j=
ust did a quick scroll through the community and they are accepting for auc=
tion everything from stories to artwork to beta-reading services. Since we =
have many talented people here, I wanted to post a link in case anyone was =
interested in participating:

http://community. livejour=
nal. com/help_ haiti/

Best regards,

Dawn
<=
BR>-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/he=
retic_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersgui=
ld
 .org






      
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From: melissa chandra 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elvish and all that
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=qJKkKgzTUA6Ap2W69kyQ_Unm7Pe344LmSVV18CTOdKCmPwCqAAg
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I think I fall into the second category. :) Without the slashy part, though=
. I am not a homophobic, but slash is not included in my principalities. I =
adhere to the first view to an extent, but not always. (One of the causes i=
s my limited knowledge on several details hidden in the nooks and crannies =
of Tolkien's various manuscripts.)
=C2=A0
I use "ellon," "Elfling," "Ada/r"=
 just to... kind of heighten the atmosphere; like the usage of a sindarin n=
ame for the male Elf (ellon) in a Quenya-speaking (as far as I know) Gondol=
in...
=C2=A0
I agree that Ada/Atto and Nana/Amme=C2=A0are (should be) taken=
 more as the substitute to a proper name by a child to his/her parent... al=
though I sometimes (or oftentimes? LOL) slip from that. (And sorry. I forge=
t who said so, Sirielle or CGL; reaffirming Wendy's view on that matter.)
=
=C2=A0
As for modern English... Hee. I sometimes mix between formal/informa=
l and old-fashioned/more modern tones even in daily usage of English. A rat=
her persistent-learner of English (I am an Indonesian, and English is a for=
eign language here) who believes in "trial and error" although the mistakes=
, when found out, makes her blush beetroot red. *grin* So I cannot say anyt=
hing about the usage of those tones in writing. I believe, though, that the=
 old-fashioned English works to the same effect as archaic English, except =
that, when using just the old-fashioned tone,=C2=A0readers do not need to s=
earch in the dictionary for some words. From what I know, the old-fashioned=
 one just 'mix' the sentence structure a bit and use the words that are not=
 often used now.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
A question of my own... What works better whe=
n there are more than one language spoken in a single chapter: marking the =
dialogues/thoughts with some symbols ("~...~", "#...#"), indicating the swi=
tch=C2=A0by tags informing the readers about the languages ("...," said the=
 Elf in Sindarin/Quenya/Westron.), or hinting at the different languages th=
rough=C2=A0the usage of well-known words=C2=A0in the respective languages? =
("Hannon le," "Gwador/Muindor nin." Etc.)
=C2=A0
- Rey
=C2=A0

--- On Thu, =
1/14/10, Dawn Felagund  wrote:


From: Dawn Felagun=
d 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elvi=
sh and all that
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday=
, January 14, 2010, 8:33 PM


=C2=A0 



On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 7:00 PM, W=
endy  wrote:
> It's cool that there is still =
wiggle-room, but great is my desire to be taken seriously as a writer, thou=
gh my writing be fanfiction.

I think that to achieve that depends on what =
group of writers you are talking about.

There are archives that care to th=
e point of obsession about "canon correctness." People who will argue for h=
ours over whether Celegorm was blond or brown-haired, who have driven autho=
rs on occasions to create author's notes longer than the story to justify t=
heir interpretations in preemptive defense, who will insist that a story wi=
th Maglor as a bachelor be labeled AU because note #7 on the essay Of Dwarv=
es and Men in volume 12 of the HoMe said that he was married. They are extr=
emists and, thankfully, a minority. (They would probably say that I am an e=
xtremist too, but for the opposite perspective. ;)

I think an interesting =
question to ask is, "Why do you write stories based on J.R.R. Tolkien's wri=
tings?" Different people give different responses, but I have seen them tre=
nd into two directions:

"I want more of what Tolkien wrote. I want to live=
 in his world for just a few moments longer. I have read all that he has wr=
itten, so fan fiction satisfies my desire for more stories like his."

"I w=
ant to explore and understand Tolkien's world, how it would have functioned=
, both as a myth and as a real place. Through his world, I can learn about =
my own. I want to investigate and question and sometimes challenge the idea=
s that he used his writing to express, and I do so by writing fiction and p=
oetry."

I don't think either motive is better than the other, but they cer=
tainly result not only in different styles of stories but different standar=
ds for what counts as quality or serious writing.

The first group tends to=
 care more that the style of writing, the word choice match what Tolkien hi=
mself wrote. The adjective Tolkienesque was invented for their use. :) They=
 choose the interpretation most like what they imagine Tolkien himself woul=
d have chosen. Boromir and Frodo are not lovers because they cannot imagine=
 that JRRT would have ever made them so. They like stories that they could =
imagine fitting seamlessly between two chapters or sections of the existing=
 text. They tend to look at the second group's stories and claim they bear =
no resemblance to Tolkien's world. They tend to ask the second group, "Why =
bother to write fanfic? Why not write original fiction, if you want to do t=
hat?"

The second group cares not a whit for matching Tolkien's style. Midd=
le-earth is a vast playground used for imagining how different scenarios wo=
uld have turned out or for asking questions and using stories to answer the=
m. Boromir and Frodo are lovers because they are interested in how Hobbits =
and Gondorians view homosexuality, or because they are intrigued about how =
the story would change if that fact were true. They tend to like stories th=
at use JRRT's writings as a springboard, a setting and a cast of familiar c=
haracters. They tend to say to the first group, "If you want to read Tolkie=
n, why not just read Tolkien?"

Of course, many people fall between the two=
. I fall squarely into the second group, which is probably not surprising t=
o anyone here. To me, the thought that you will not be taken seriously as a=
 writer because you use a word that is not attested in the texts, honestly,=
 seems preposterous. (At the same time that I recognize and acknowledge tha=
t the militant fans mentioned at the start of this post do exist and make l=
ife miserable for those who do not meet their exacting standards of "canoni=
city" on some websites. I started my Silm-writing career terrified of being=
 "wrong" on factual details only to discover, over the years, exactly how m=
uch flexibility the texts afford.) To me, you will be taken seriously as a =
writer if you can create and present a version of Tolkien's world that I ca=
n believe in (even if it looks nothing like how I imagined it myself), if y=
our use of the texts is thoughtful and informed rather than simply an attem=
pt to connect a lot of
 disparate facts into a storyline, if the storyline =
builds on rather than repeats what we see in the texts, and if the characte=
rs flesh out beyond the skeletons JRRT gave us in the Silm. If you use word=
s like elfling, if you use modernisms, if you fail to sound like JRRT, I do=
 not care, so long as these things work in the context of the story I am re=
ading.

But I recognize that this is not the only way that people look at s=
tories. :)

So my opinion on Modern English, too, is that I am a fairly you=
ng writer living in the U.S. at the start of the 21st century. That is my v=
oice, so that is what I use.

Listmates, do you think there are other reaso=
ns why people write Tolkien-based stories other than the two I named here? =
Why do you write Silm (or LotR) stories?

Dawn


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
ht=
tp://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwriters=
guild .org








      
--0-1910234520-1263533988=:40144
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I think I fall into the second category.=
 :) Without the slashy part, though. I am not a homophobic, but slash is no=
t included in my principalities. I adhere to the first view to an extent, b=
ut not always. (One of the causes is my limited knowledge on several detail=
s hidden in the nooks and crannies of Tolkien's various manuscripts.)
=


 


I use "ellon," "Elfling," "Ada/r" just to... kind o=
f heighten the atmosphere; like the usage of a sindarin name for the male E=
lf (ellon) in a Quenya-speaking (as far as I know) Gondolin...


&=
nbsp;


I agree that Ada/Atto and Nana/Amme are (should be) t=
aken more as the substitute to a proper name by a child to his/her parent..=
. although I sometimes (or oftentimes? LOL) slip from that. (And sorry. I f=
orget who said so, Sirielle or CGL; reaffirming Wendy's view on that matter=
.)


 


As for modern English... Hee. I sometimes m=
ix between formal/informal and old-fashioned/more modern tones even in dail=
y usage of English. A rather persistent-learner of English (I am an Indones=
ian, and English is a foreign language here) who believes in "trial and err=
or" although the mistakes, when found out, makes her blush beetroot red. *g=
rin* So I cannot say anything about the usage of those tones in writing. I =
believe, though, that the old-fashioned English works to the same effect as=
 archaic English, except that, when using just the old-fashioned tone, =
;readers do not need to search in the dictionary for some words. From what =
I know, the old-fashioned one just 'mix' the sentence structure a bit and u=
se the words that are not often used now. 


 

A question of my own... What works better when there are more than one la=
nguage spoken in a single chapter: marking the dialogues/thoughts with some=
 symbols ("~...~", "#...#"), indicating the switch by tags informing t=
he readers about the languages ("...," said the Elf in Sindarin/Quenya/West=
ron.), or hinting at the different languages through the usage of well=
-known words in the respective languages? ("Hannon le," "Gwador/Muindo=
r nin." Etc.)

 


- Rey


 

-=
-- On Thu, 1/14/10, Dawn Felagund <=
/B> wrote:



From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elvis=
h and all that
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu=
rsday, January 14, 2010, 8:33 PM



  



On Thu, Jan 14=
, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Wendy <wendwriter1@ goo=
glemail. com> wrote:
> It's cool that there is still wi=
ggle-room, but great is my desire to be taken seriously as a writer, though=
 my writing be fanfiction.

I think that to achieve that depends on w=
hat group of writers you are talking about.

There are archives that =
care to the point of obsession about "canon correctness." People who will a=
rgue for hours over whether Celegorm was blond or brown-haired, who have dr=
iven authors on occasions to create author's notes longer than the story to=
 justify their interpretations in preemptive defense, who will insist that =
a story with Maglor as a bachelor be labeled AU because note #7 on the essa=
y Of Dwarves and Men in volume 12 of the HoMe said
 that he was marr=
ied. They are extremists and, thankfully, a minority. (They would probably =
say that I am an extremist too, but for the opposite perspective. ;)
I think an interesting question to ask is, "Why do you write stories based=
 on J.R.R. Tolkien's writings?" Different people give different responses, =
but I have seen them trend into two directions:

"I want more of what=
 Tolkien wrote. I want to live in his world for just a few moments longer. =
I have read all that he has written, so fan fiction satisfies my desire for=
 more stories like his."

"I want to explore and understand Tolkien's=
 world, how it would have functioned, both as a myth and as a real place. T=
hrough his world, I can learn about my own. I want to investigate and quest=
ion and sometimes challenge the ideas that he used his writing to express, =
and I do so by writing fiction and poetry."

I don't think either mot=
ive is better than the other, but they certainly
 result not only in differ=
ent styles of stories but different standards for what counts as quality or=
 serious writing.

The first group tends to care more that the style =
of writing, the word choice match what Tolkien himself wrote. The adjective=
 Tolkienesque was invented for their use. :) They choose the interpr=
etation most like what they imagine Tolkien himself would have chosen. Boro=
mir and Frodo are not lovers because they cannot imagine that JRRT would ha=
ve ever made them so. They like stories that they could imagine fitting sea=
mlessly between two chapters or sections of the existing text. They tend to=
 look at the second group's stories and claim they bear no resemblance to T=
olkien's world. They tend to ask the second group, "Why bother to write fan=
fic? Why not write original fiction, if you want to do that?"

The se=
cond group cares not a whit for matching Tolkien's style. Middle-earth is a=
 vast playground used for imagining how
 different scenarios would have tur=
ned out or for asking questions and using stories to answer them. Boromir a=
nd Frodo are lovers because they are interested in how Hobbits and Gondoria=
ns view homosexuality, or because they are intrigued about how the story wo=
uld change if that fact were true. They tend to like stories that use JRRT'=
s writings as a springboard, a setting and a cast of familiar characters. T=
hey tend to say to the first group, "If you want to read Tolkien, why not j=
ust read Tolkien?"

Of course, many people fall between the two. I fa=
ll squarely into the second group, which is probably not surprising to anyo=
ne here. To me, the thought that you will not be taken seriously as a write=
r because you use a word that is not attested in the texts, honestly, seems=
 preposterous. (At the same time that I recognize and acknowledge that the =
militant fans mentioned at the start of this post do exist and make =
life miserable for those who do
 not meet their exacting standards of "cano=
nicity" on some websites. I started my Silm-writing career terrified of bei=
ng "wrong" on factual details only to discover, over the years, exactly how=
 much flexibility the texts afford.) To me, you will be taken seriously as =
a writer if you can create and present a version of Tolkien's world that I =
can believe in (even if it looks nothing like how I imagined it myself), if=
 your use of the texts is thoughtful and informed rather than simply an att=
empt to connect a lot of disparate facts into a storyline, if the storyline=
 builds on rather than repeats what we see in the texts, and if the charact=
ers flesh out beyond the skeletons JRRT gave us in the Silm. If you use wor=
ds like elfling, if you use modernisms, if you fail to sound like JR=
RT, I do not care, so long as these things work in the context of the story=
 I am reading.

But I recognize that this is not the only way that pe=
ople look at stories.
 :)

So my opinion on Modern English, too, is t=
hat I am a fairly young writer living in the U.S. at the start of the 21st =
century. That is my voice, so that is what I use.

Listmates, do you =
think there are other reasons why people write Tolkien-based stories other =
than the two I named here? Why do you write Silm (or LotR) stories?<=
BR>
Dawn


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://w=
ww.silmaril lionwritersguild .org





      
--0-1910234520-1263533988=:40144--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=401339913; y=V50xZmlzcrIzqPyj3O9_IPYtgFdB0CzRZWUeIy6DzwrgA4qQSg
X-Yahoo-Profile: wendwriter

Thanks, Dawn.

I've got no time for people who argue over hair colour, and =
laugh at those who argue for years on end and get into feuds over whether B=
alrogs have wings. 

I write Tolkien fics because I love his world, but als=
o because I want to make sense of it. I couldn't write a story in which Bor=
omir has a loving sexual relationship with Frodo because, to me, it simply =
doesn't make sense, either from a social or canonical point of view. Frodo'=
s size and status as a minority figure would put Boromir in a position of p=
ower - I could buy it if Evil!Boromir was exploiting the little fellow, eit=
her because he's a perve or to get the Ring off him. There's also the quest=
ion of how the others would react to this. The idea that they simply accept=
 it and carry on as usual doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me. So=
me might indeed say, "Go Bordo!" while others would be uncomfortable - Sam =
might be jealous! Such a relationship and the nature thereof would be very =
hard to keep secret in a group that gets to know each other very well. 

Le=
golas fancies some Gondorian rough? I don't read or write slash, but that m=
akes sense to me. I don't mind people straying from canon or making charact=
ers behave in ways that I consider uncanonical if they explain it well enou=
gh and get the psychology on straight. For example, people who accept abuse=
 and aren't changed by it, either subtly or obviously, aren't realistic. Th=
e rage and pain generated thereby does find its way to the surface one way =
or another. In Suefics, this happens all the time. Girl is horribly abused =
by parent or guardian, but the love of Leggy-poos makes it all better.

The=
 way I think and act has certainly changed because of things that have happ=
ened to me - a tale for another time. The point is, make it realistic and I=
 won't reject it.

I write in a blend of the things you have described abov=
e - I want to figure out the mechanics of thinking and social mores, but in=
 a way I consider compatible with canon. As you have pointed out, canon is =
flexible, so no one can truly lay claim to be absolutely right, whatever th=
eir position. 



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From: "surgeon_ruth" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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X-Yahoo-Profile: surgeon_ruth

Hey, Dawn,

I think as a writer my motivations are in that second group, bu=
t as a reader, it's changed a little with time. I started reading Star Trek=
 fanfic a loooong time ago, because I wanted more Star Trek - and I sort of=
 stumbled across slash back when I was reading ST fic. I didn't do much non=
-scientific reading for a while thanks to med school and residency and fell=
 back into reading fanfic late one night on call - I knew I needed to go ch=
eck on some lab results in 30-45 minutes, so there was no point sleeping (f=
or me, 30 minutes sleep can be worse than none, because you're just groggy =
and drooling). I'd just read the most recent Harry Potter book and was curi=
ous how the next one might pan out, so I searched 'Harry Potter fanfiction'=
 and found ff.net. I realized two huge advantages to fanfic on the internet=
: it could be read on any computer I had access to (no need to haul books) =
AND it was free. When you're a surgical resident, damn near anything free i=
s worth at least checking out. ;) 

I sort of wandered from reading HP fic =
into reading LOTR fic and found myself rolling my eyes at a fair number of =
fics in the hurt/comfort genre for two reasons: the treatment of illness an=
d injury was woefully wrong OR the characterization of the healers was abso=
lutely dreadful. So I started writing fanfic in Tolkien's world with an age=
nda. I wanted to show the healers as actual real human beings like the ones=
 I work with every day, and I wanted to see the medical detail gotten *righ=
t* - and hopefully to do both of those in a reasonably well-written story. =
Of course, I've sort of fallen into exploring other corners of M-e as well =
now, and often with a heretical spin - although it amuses me that the piece=
s which seem to make certain corners howl the loudest have obscure bits of =
canon to back them up. I'm bad that way.

Back this afternoon, most likely,=
 I need to finish my coffee and then go take off skin lesions, take out a g=
all bladder, and scope a few people.

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo=
groups.com, Dawn Felagund  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 201=
0 at 7:00 PM, Wendy  wrote:
> > It's cool that there is st=
ill wiggle-room, but great is my desire to be
> taken seriously as a writer=
, though my writing be fanfiction.
> 
> I think that to achieve that depend=
s on what group of writers you are
> talking about.
> 
> There are archives=
 that care to the point of obsession about "canon
> correctness." People wh=
o will argue for hours over whether Celegorm was
> blond or brown-haired, w=
ho have driven authors on occasions to create
> author's notes longer than =
the story to justify their interpretations in
> preemptive defense, who wil=
l insist that a story with Maglor as a bachelor
> be labeled AU because not=
e #7 on the essay *Of Dwarves and Men* in volume 12
> of the HoMe said that=
 he was married. They are extremists and, thankfully, a
> minority. (They w=
ould probably say that I am an extremist too, but for the
> opposite perspe=
ctive. ;)
> 
> I think an interesting question to ask is, "Why do you write=
 stories based
> on J.R.R. Tolkien's writings?" Different people give diffe=
rent responses,
> but I have seen them trend into two directions:
> 
> "I w=
ant more of what Tolkien wrote. I want to live in his world for just a
> fe=
w moments longer. I have read all that he has written, so fan fiction
> sat=
isfies my desire for more stories like his."
> 
> "I want to explore and un=
derstand Tolkien's world, how it would have
> functioned, both as a myth an=
d as a real place. Through his world, I can
> learn about my own. I want to=
 investigate and question and sometimes
> challenge the ideas that he used =
his writing to express, and I do so by
> writing fiction and poetry."
> 
> =
I don't think either motive is better than the other, but they certainly
> =
result not only in different styles of stories but different standards for
=
> what counts as quality or serious writing.
> 
> The first group tends to =
care more that the style of writing, the word
> choice match what Tolkien h=
imself wrote. The adjective *Tolkienesque* was
> invented for their use. :)=
 They choose the interpretation most like what
> they imagine Tolkien himse=
lf would have chosen. Boromir and Frodo are not
> lovers because they canno=
t imagine that JRRT would have ever made them so.
> They like stories that =
they could imagine fitting seamlessly between two
> chapters or sections of=
 the existing text. They tend to look at the second
> group's stories and c=
laim they bear no resemblance to Tolkien's world. They
> tend to ask the se=
cond group, "Why bother to write fanfic? Why not write
> original fiction, =
if you want to do that?"
> 
> The second group cares not a whit for matchin=
g Tolkien's style. Middle-earth
> is a vast playground used for imagining h=
ow different scenarios would have
> turned out or for asking questions and =
using stories to answer them. Boromir
> and Frodo are lovers because they a=
re interested in how Hobbits and
> Gondorians view homosexuality, or becaus=
e they are intrigued about how the
> story would change if that fact were t=
rue. They tend to like stories that
> use JRRT's writings as a springboard,=
 a setting and a cast of familiar
> characters. They tend to say to the fir=
st group, "If you want to read
> Tolkien, why not just read Tolkien?"
> 
> =
Of course, many people fall between the two. I fall squarely into the secon=
d
> group, which is probably not surprising to anyone here. To me, the thou=
ght
> that you will not be taken seriously as a writer because you use a wo=
rd that
> is not attested in the texts, honestly, seems preposterous. (At t=
he same
> time that I recognize and acknowledge that the militant fans ment=
ioned at
> the start of this post *do* exist and make life miserable for th=
ose who do
> not meet their exacting standards of "canonicity" on some webs=
ites. I
> started my Silm-writing career terrified of being "wrong" on fact=
ual details
> only to discover, over the years, exactly how much flexibilit=
y the texts
> afford.) To me, you will be taken seriously as a writer if yo=
u can create
> and present a version of Tolkien's world that I can believe =
in (even if it
> looks nothing like how I imagined it myself), if your use =
of the texts is
> thoughtful and informed rather than simply an attempt to =
connect a lot of
> disparate facts into a storyline, if the storyline build=
s on rather than
> repeats what we see in the texts, and if the characters =
flesh out beyond the
> skeletons JRRT gave us in the Silm. If you use words=
 like *elfling,* if you
> use modernisms, if you fail to sound like JRRT, I=
 do not care, so long as
> these things work in the context of the story I =
am reading.
> 
> But I recognize that this is not the only way that people =
look at stories.
> :)
> 
> So my opinion on Modern English, too, is that I =
am a fairly young writer
> living in the U.S. at the start of the 21st cent=
ury. That is my voice, so
> that is what I use.
> 
> Listmates, do you thin=
k there are other reasons why people write
> Tolkien-based stories other th=
an the two I named here? Why do *you* write
> Silm (or LotR) stories?
> 
> =
Dawn
> 
> 
> -- 
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_=
loremaster/
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
>




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From: Marta 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti Earthquake
 Recovery
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=ZgoqbdGY6wjfri_F2qR6-chGiK2cuc8WgpbgOg44dksaM-s0VzBNcQ
X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva

melissa chandra wrote:
> I... do not understand. Why do people auxion stories and beta-reading services? How? I wish to help, though, still.
>  
>  
> - Rey
>
>   

Hi Rey,

The idea is, people offer to write fic, create art, etc., and other 
people in fandom bid on it. The winner donates the amount pledged to any 
one of several reputable charities working in Haiti. The winner then 
passes on the confirmation to (I think) the comm organizers, and the 
person who volunteered their fanfic or whatever actually writes the fic.

I'm volunteering as part of this, btw. I offered to write a Tolkien 
fanfic about Gondor, but also am willing to consider other parts of 
Tolkien's world if you clear the characters with me first. (I don't want 
you to pledge if I don't feel comfortable writing the characters, but in 
most cases I'll say yes to Silmarillion-based fanfic and most other 
areas of LOTR as well.

I hope this isn't in bad taste, but here's the link where I put up my 
request:

http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/3155.html?thread=2148179#t2148179

I put this forward mainly to show you how it could work, not to ask you 
to vote for me. The basic idea is you donate to the work in Haiti and in 
return you get some sort of fic or art or something along those lines, 
written to your prompt.

Marta


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From: "calenlassgreenleaf" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=MIxSKmc9-sKI3K3naiEZdgjUkCAn8x6iB9c1V4QByL-SQrqi0YNCAbnbbQ
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Hi, Wendy. *waves* Cal here with her two cents, and after lurking for so lo=
ng, I hope I don't sound woefully inadequate among the veteran writers and =
linguists on this group.

I stopped using excessive Sindarin/Quenya in my s=
tories when someone told me it wasn't the best thing to do because it was j=
arring. So I use it sparingly (though I still have a tendency to use things=
 like "Ada" or "gwador" or "mellon n=EDn" or "le hannon"). Ellon and elleth=
 occasionally pop up, perhaps. I don't remember. But I wouldn't cut out the=
 use of Elvish *entirely*

My opinion on the use of Elvish? I only use bits=
 of it here and there because I like to think of it as code-switching--what=
 bilingual-speaking people do when they frequently use two different langua=
ges. Granted, probably, most conversations in Rivendell (for lack of a bett=
er example) would have consisted of Sindarin or Quenya, if not for the pres=
ence of the heirs of Isildur, who would most likely use Westron and Sindari=
n (and Quenya, I guess). 

I go by RL's experiences. Using myself as an exa=
mple--I was born in the States, but I first learned Chinese because of my p=
arents and grandparents (the latter barely knew any English). I only began =
using English when I started school. From then on, I used both languages in=
terchangeably at home and in the presence of other English-Chinese speakers=
. My sentences were occasionally mixed--that's what I meant by code-switchi=
ng. So, perhaps for me, I've always assumed that using bits and pieces of E=
lvish in a fic is fine as long as there aren't long sentences of it crammed=
 everywhere.

Eh, I have no idea if this explanation was any good...but the=
 question of using foreign words in a fic isn't a new one. It's also in oth=
er fandoms (especially in the manga/anime, where some people are at each ot=
her's throats regarding subs/dubbings, the use of Japanese honorifics, etc)=
. Some fans argue that it's because they're fans, so they use it. Personall=
y, I don't find it a large issue because of RL experiences.

~Cal *shuffles=
 away and hides*

P.S. Elfling...Mostly these days, I use "Elven child" bec=
ause I kept on spelling Elfling as Elfing, and it was annoying me. :P

--- =
In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Wendy"  wrot=
e:
>
> Well I've been asked to beta someone's story, and discovered the use=
 of random Elvish (Sindarin) when referring to Elves. Now this is my person=
al view, which, though I personally cling to it like grim death, I wouldn't=
 presume to impose on others:
> 
> Words like "Ellon" I'd strip out because=
 it's a Sindarin word and doesn't make sense in a text written in English. =
To me, it seems that if you simply must use "Ellon," your story ought to re=
ad like this:
> 
> The young ellon scratched his carach, a frown on his fai=
r face. The look in his hent portended trouble. All around him, aeglos of a=
ssorted sizes lay scattered on the taur floor, the remnants of the great er=
yn that had stood there before. 
> 
> You'd need several pages for your aut=
hor notes, wouldn't you? Why not just put the whole lot in English unless t=
here's not an English word equivalent to the meaning you're aiming for? E.g=
. "The tsunami struck in the early hours of the morning, taking residents o=
f the beachfront resort by surprise."
> 
> I can imagine the response: "Why=
 not use 'tidal wave,' smart alec?"
> 
> Because the nearest thing to a tid=
al wave we have is the tidal bores that go upriver on the Severn and the Th=
ames in England. A storm surge might be exacerbated by a high tide, but rea=
lly, strictly speaking, we haven't got a word in our language that is as ac=
curate for what it is as "tsunami." So we thanked the Japanese politely for=
 providing the word, and have been using it ever since.
> 
> Does that mean=
 you should never use Elvish words at all? Well, since "Ada" is so personal=
 to Elves, I'd have no objection to its use, myself. It's like "Daddy" to u=
s, and it feels wrong to me to put "Daddy" into an elfling's mouth. I'd def=
initely use "elfling," (though strictly speaking, it's fanon, isn't it? I h=
aven't seen it in the texts I have access to), because it means "little Elf=
." Elf children are different from human children in so many ways that it m=
akes sense to have a special name for them. But that's just me. I'm aware i=
t makes me sound a bit hypocritical. 
> 
> So... opinions?
>




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From: "equineinclined" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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X-Yahoo-Profile: equineinclined
X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard  via web; 15 Jan 2010 16:22:12 -0000

It's already been said enough but I do agree that most random elvish isn't =
necessary and distracts from the story, however, it is a matter of personal=
 preference. Those who are fans of the MC stories, for instance, are adaman=
t in using certain words such as penneth, mellon n=EEn, etc. and that is ex=
pected if you are writing to that crowd. I think its really a matter of per=
sonal taste, though I have been going through my older works and removing t=
he random elvish as I have decided that except in rare cases using all Engl=
ish is best. It's all translation after all. ;)

Concerning ellon/elleth: I=
'd rather see those terms in a story than he-elf or she-elf. *shudders* ;)
=

On the use of the term 'elfling', again it's a matter of personal preferen=
ce. I do think it works better when it's another race thinking/using the te=
rm, but have been guilty of using it in the past. This is almost expected b=
y some in the fandom. As Darth pointed out, Tolkien referred to the elves a=
s men and women and so there is no reason why we can't as well. However, if=
 an author prefers to use ellon/elleth/elfling...well, that is their prerog=
ative. 


//Elf children are different from human children in so many ways =
that it makes sense to have a special name for them. //

Umm... To open ano=
ther can of worms... You do know that elves and Men are BOTH human? I know =
you mean mortal Men, but have to point out that they are of the same specie=
s or they would not be able to intermarry and bear children. Tolkien makes =
this distinction in The Lettes. ;)

NiRi



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From: "Doc Bushwell" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213

NiRi, that has already been pointed out.  Please see my remarks above.

---=
 In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "equineinclined"  wrote:
>

> 
> Umm... To open another can of worms... You do know =
that elves and Men are BOTH human? I know you mean mortal Men, but have to =
point out that they are of the same species or they would not be able to in=
termarry and bear children. Tolkien makes this distinction in The Lettes. ;=
)
> 
> NiRi
>




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To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "calenlassgreenleaf" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271630740; y=xW3tJpB5tKM5pNHSLj0y5RM5QjjqAA6qF3aV2ByKFABRdyAi50Fk0e9ZWA
X-Yahoo-Profile: calenlassgreenleaf

//Those who are fans of the MC stories, for instance, are adamant in
using =
certain words such as penneth, mellon n=EEn, etc. and that is expected if
y=
ou are writing to that crowd. //

That would be me, half the time. :P

//Um=
m... To open another can of worms... You do know that elves and Men are BOT=
H human? I know you mean mortal Men, but have to point out that they are of=
 the same species or they would not be able to intermarry and bear children=
. Tolkien makes this distinction in The Lettes. ;)//

*grin* I stoped using=
 "human" for "man" after that discussion on OAA.

~Cal

--- In Silmarillion=
WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "equineinclined"  wrote:
=
>
> It's already been said enough but I do agree that most random elvish is=
n't necessary and distracts from the story, however, it is a matter of pers=
onal preference. Those who are fans of the MC stories, for instance, are ad=
amant in using certain words such as penneth, mellon n=EEn, etc. and that i=
s expected if you are writing to that crowd. I think its really a matter of=
 personal taste, though I have been going through my older works and removi=
ng the random elvish as I have decided that except in rare cases using all =
English is best. It's all translation after all. ;)
> 
> Concerning ellon/e=
lleth: I'd rather see those terms in a story than he-elf or she-elf. *shudd=
ers* ;)
> 
> On the use of the term 'elfling', again it's a matter of perso=
nal preference. I do think it works better when it's another race thinking/=
using the term, but have been guilty of using it in the past. This is almos=
t expected by some in the fandom. As Darth pointed out, Tolkien referred to=
 the elves as men and women and so there is no reason why we can't as well.=
 However, if an author prefers to use ellon/elleth/elfling...well, that is =
their prerogative. 
> 
> 
> //Elf children are different from human childre=
n in so many ways that it makes sense to have a special name for them. //
>=
 
> Umm... To open another can of worms... You do know that elves and Men a=
re BOTH human? I know you mean mortal Men, but have to point out that they =
are of the same species or they would not be able to intermarry and bear ch=
ildren. Tolkien makes this distinction in The Lettes. ;)
> 
> NiRi
>




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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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Okay, while we're on the subject, can I bring this one up? [Q] 
"le hannon"=
 [/Q]

To me, the syntax here is wrong. Mind you, I heard "Hannon le" in th=
e movies, so PJ might have got it wrong. Is either version wrong at all?

T=
his also applies to "nin mellon." Due to possible misinformation, I prefer =
"mellon nin."

Does syntax matter in Elvish languages?





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Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 13:13:24 -0500
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7ec20aa050c047d37f55f
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0
From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti 
	Earthquake Recovery
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X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund


--0016e6d7ec20aa050c047d37f55f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

No, please, anyone who is participating in Help Haiti, post a link here so
that we can find you amid the hundreds of replies! :) I'm working on my own
contribution now so will have more details soon.

Dawn

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Marta  wrote:

>
> I hope this isn't in bad taste, but here's the link where I put up my
> request:
>
>
> http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/3155.html?thread=2148179#t2148179
>
>
-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d7ec20aa050c047d37f55f
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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No, please, anyone who is participating in Help Haiti, post a link here so =
that we can find you amid the hundreds of replies! :) I'm working on my=
 own contribution now so will have more details soon.

Dawn


<=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Marta <marta.fandom@gmail.c=
om> wrote:


















I hope this isn't in bad taste, bu=
t here's the link where I put up my 

request:



http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/3155.htm=
l?thread=3D2148179#t2148179



-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/http://www.silmarilli=
onwritersguild.org



--0016e6d7ec20aa050c047d37f55f--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elvish and all that
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--0016e6d7eaeb63bf1d047d389160
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Cal, you are not allowed to run away and hide! ;) I think you make a great
point about code-switching. My husband and I, though both native English
speakers, nonetheless speak in a mix of English, Spanish, Sindarin, and a
language belonging to the characters in one of my original story universes.
I often say that we must be incomprehensible to anyone else. ;)

Dawn

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:31 AM, calenlassgreenleaf <
eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com> wrote:

>  My opinion on the use of Elvish? I only use bits of it here and there
> because I like to think of it as code-switching--what bilingual-speaking
> people do when they frequently use two different languages. Granted,
> probably, most conversations in Rivendell (for lack of a better example)
> would have consisted of Sindarin or Quenya, if not for the presence of the
> heirs of Isildur, who would most likely use Westron and Sindarin (and
> Quenya, I guess).
>

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d7eaeb63bf1d047d389160
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Cal, you are not allowed to run away and hide! ;) I think you make a great =
point about code-switching. My husband and I, though both native English sp=
eakers, nonetheless speak in a mix of English, Spanish, Sindarin, and a lan=
guage belonging to the characters in one of my original story universes. I =
often say that we must be incomprehensible to anyone else. ;)


Dawn<=
br>
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:31 AM, calenla=
ssgreenleaf <eldariel_perdhel@yahoo.com> wrote:
















 My opinion on the use of El=
vish? I only use bits of it here and there because I like to think of it as=
 code-switching--what bilingual-speaking people do when they frequently use=
 two different languages. Granted, probably, most conversations in Rivendel=
l (for lack of a better example) would have consisted of Sindarin or Quenya=
, if not for the presence of the heirs of Isildur, who would most likely us=
e Westron and Sindarin (and Quenya, I guess).



-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/=

http://www.silm=
arillionwritersguild.org



--0016e6d7eaeb63bf1d047d389160--


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From: CGL 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elvish and all that
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--- On Fri, 15/1/10, Wendy  wrote:

> Okay, wh=
ile we're on the subject, can
> I bring this one up? [Q] "le hannon" [/Q]
>=
 
> To me, the syntax here is wrong. Mind you, I heard "Hannon
> le" in the=
 movies, so PJ might have got it wrong. Is either
> version wrong at all?

=
According to given examples, it can go both ways: compare 'Fanuilos le linn=
athon' with 'diheno ammen'.

My personal interpretation (based on Quenya st=
ructures) is that you put the more important element first in these cases, =
so you'd have to decide, in your context, whether 'thank' or 'you' is the m=
ore important word.  Keeping in mind that the following is my hypothesis on=
ly:

In 'Fanuilos le linnathon', the translation is 'Fanuilos *to you* I wi=
ll sing', with emphasis on the importance of 'you' (over anyone else).  If =
the speaker wanted to emphasise that he or she was specifically singing rat=
her than, say, dancing or praying, it could be reworded as 'Fanuilos linnat=
hon le' (Fanuilos *I will sing* to you).  Meanwhile, 'diheno ammen' means '=
forgive us' with emphasis on the 'forgive'.  That is, '*forgive* us' (do no=
t scorn us) over 'forgive *us*' (as opposed to forgiving that other group).=

 
> This also applies to "nin mellon." Due to possible
> misinformation, I=
 prefer "mellon nin."

In every example I can recall, the format is always =
'mellon n=EEn'.  However, if somebody wanted to argue that it's theoretical=
ly possible to have 'n=EEn mellon' in order to emphasise *my* friend, I'd l=
isten.

> Does syntax matter in Elvish languages?

Hell yes.

CGL


      
=


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From: "calenlassgreenleaf" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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Le hannon and Hannon le--

I chose the former because back then I was using=
 Merin Essi ar Quenteli (still do, though I use CoE's Sindarin more) extens=
ively, and it said that "hannon le" was wrong. N=EDn mellon (And here I WIL=
L NOT start on the various little accent mark, LOL) just looks odd to me be=
cause it's rarely used.

//My personal interpretation (based on Quenya stru=
ctures) is that you put the more important element first in these cases, so=
 you'd have to decide, in your context, whether 'thank' or 'you' is the mor=
e important word.  Keeping in mind that the following is my hypothesis only=
://

I never thought about it that way. But it makes sense.

~Cal

--- In S=
ilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, CGL  wrote:
>
> 
>=
 --- On Fri, 15/1/10, Wendy  wrote:
> 
> > Okay, while we'=
re on the subject, can
> > I bring this one up? [Q] "le hannon" [/Q]
> > 
>=
 > To me, the syntax here is wrong. Mind you, I heard "Hannon
> > le" in th=
e movies, so PJ might have got it wrong. Is either
> > version wrong at all=
?
> 
> According to given examples, it can go both ways: compare 'Fanuilos =
le linnathon' with 'diheno ammen'.
> 
> My personal interpretation (based o=
n Quenya structures) is that you put the more important element first in th=
ese cases, so you'd have to decide, in your context, whether 'thank' or 'yo=
u' is the more important word.  Keeping in mind that the following is my hy=
pothesis only:
> 
> In 'Fanuilos le linnathon', the translation is 'Fanuilo=
s *to you* I will sing', with emphasis on the importance of 'you' (over any=
one else).  If the speaker wanted to emphasise that he or she was specifica=
lly singing rather than, say, dancing or praying, it could be reworded as '=
Fanuilos linnathon le' (Fanuilos *I will sing* to you).  Meanwhile, 'diheno=
 ammen' means 'forgive us' with emphasis on the 'forgive'.  That is, '*forg=
ive* us' (do not scorn us) over 'forgive *us*' (as opposed to forgiving tha=
t other group).
>  
> > This also applies to "nin mellon." Due to possible
=
> > misinformation, I prefer "mellon nin."
> 
> In every example I can reca=
ll, the format is always 'mellon n=EEn'.  However, if somebody wanted to ar=
gue that it's theoretically possible to have 'n=EEn mellon' in order to emp=
hasise *my* friend, I'd listen.
> 
> > Does syntax matter in Elvish languag=
es?
> 
> Hell yes.
> 
> CGL
>




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From: "calenlassgreenleaf" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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*grins* Glad to hear I made some sense. 

My brother and I always poke fun =
at each other at our mixing--and I nearly forgot Spanish. Whenever we don't=
 wish to be overheard by our parents/ grandparents, we would use a mixture =
of Spanish and English. For them, they use Taiwanese when they don't want m=
y brother or I to overhear. Heh, I'd love to see what Elves would do in thi=
s sort of situation. :)

~Cal

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.=
com, Dawn Felagund  wrote:
>
> Cal, you are not allowed t=
o run away and hide! ;) I think you make a great
> point about code-switchi=
ng. My husband and I, though both native English
> speakers, nonetheless sp=
eak in a mix of English, Spanish, Sindarin, and a
> language belonging to t=
he characters in one of my original story universes.
> I often say that we =
must be incomprehensible to anyone else. ;)
> 
> Dawn
> 
> On Fri, Jan 15, =
2010 at 10:31 AM, calenlassgreenleaf <
> eldariel_perdhel@...> wrote:
> 
> =
>  My opinion on the use of Elvish? I only use bits of it here and there
> =
> because I like to think of it as code-switching--what bilingual-speaking
=
> > people do when they frequently use two different languages. Granted,
> =
> probably, most conversations in Rivendell (for lack of a better example)
=
> > would have consisted of Sindarin or Quenya, if not for the presence of =
the
> > heirs of Isildur, who would most likely use Westron and Sindarin (a=
nd
> > Quenya, I guess).
> >
> 
> -- 
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://them=
idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
=
>




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From: "equineinclined" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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Pande, I only get the digest so I didn't see your reply until after I comme=
nted. 

NiRi




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Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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Gotcha.  I assumed that because I made that remark yesterday afternoon that=
 it would have appeared in a comment stream provided by the digest by today=
.  But apparently not.  

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, =
"equineinclined"  wrote:
>
> Pande, I only get the dige=
st so I didn't see your reply until after I commented. 
> 
> NiRi
>




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O.o If it did, I completely didn't see it! Sowwy. Not trying to be repetiti=
ve. Just chatty. ;p

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Doc =
Bushwell"  wrote:
>
> Gotcha.  I assumed that because I ma=
de that remark yesterday afternoon that it would have appeared in a comment=
 stream provided by the digest by today.  But apparently not.  
> 





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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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I did Irish and French, in which the syntax varies. 

In Irish, the verb co=
mes first. Translated directly, "I'm going to the shops" would come out as =
"Going I to the shops."

In French, if memory serves, the structure is more=
 like English; the pronoun would come first. 

CGL says it's about the emph=
asis, which makes sense, and allows either usage. Personally, I go by prece=
dents wherever I can find them. I trust Hisweloke for my Sindarin, but my c=
rappiness at languages means I only use it when naming my characters. 

Tha=
t little accent isn't present on Hisweloke. 

Which raises the question: is=
 Hisweloke the most reliable site for Elvish languages?

>
> Le hannon and =
Hannon le--
> 
> I chose the former because back then I was using Merin Ess=
i ar Quenteli (still do, though I use CoE's Sindarin more) extensively, and=
 it said that "hannon le" was wrong. N=EDn mellon (And here I WILL NOT star=
t on the various little accent mark, LOL) just looks odd to me because it's=
 rarely used.
> 
> //My personal interpretation (based on Quenya structures=
) is that you put the more important element first in these cases, so you'd=
 have to decide, in your context, whether 'thank' or 'you' is the more impo=
rtant word.  Keeping in mind that the following is my hypothesis only://
> =

> I never thought about it that way. But it makes sense.
> 
> ~Cal




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In-Reply-To: 
References: <748319.24775.qm@web112420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	 <4B506B03.8050501@gmail.com>
	 
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 13:32:01 +0100
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To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0
From: Elleth 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti 
	Earthquake Recovery
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=401407033; y=Ife_ZMDpjzrgueMJTpdpOLJ0WzwCLnPlgqk3GyBaHhQEKwjd1Q
X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth


--0016e6dab034958102047d474e9e
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

How about compiling a quick link list for our own auctions and other source=
s
of all things Tolkien in the help_haiti comm? I suppose that might be of
=
some interest to the list members? Just tell me if you object, but since
Da=
wn already mentioned it was ok to post our own auctions, here are mine:

ht=
tp://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/1225.html?thread=3D785609#t785609=
(icons)
http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/2706.html?thread=3D1027=
730#t1027730(fic,
in the lightning round)
http://community.livejournal.com/=
help_haiti/1571.html?thread=3D843299#t843299(tea
kit)

Not strictly asking =
you to bid, except of course that every bit of money
helps.

Cheers,
Elleth=


2010/1/15 Dawn Felagund 

>
>
> No, please, anyon=
e who is participating in Help Haiti, post a link here so
> that we can fin=
d you amid the hundreds of replies! :) I'm working on my own
> contribution=
 now so will have more details soon.
>
> Dawn
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at=
 8:17 AM, Marta  wrote:
>
>>
>> I hope this isn't i=
n bad taste, but here's the link where I put up my
>> request:
>>
>>
>> htt=
p://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/3155.html?thread=3D2148179#t214817=
9
>>
>>
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lore=
master/
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
>  
>

--0016e6dab034958102047d474e9e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

How about compiling a quick link list for our own auctions and other source=
s of all things Tolkien in the help_haiti comm? I suppose that might be of =
some interest to the list members? Just tell me if you object, but since Da=
wn already mentioned it was ok to post our own auctions, here are mine: 

http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/1225.html?=
thread=3D785609#t785609 (icons)
http://community.li=
vejournal.com/help_haiti/2706.html?thread=3D1027730#t1027730 (fic, in t=
he lightning round)

http://community.livejournal.com/hel=
p_haiti/1571.html?thread=3D843299#t843299 (tea kit)

Not strictly=
 asking you to bid, except of course that every bit of money helps.

Cheers,
Elleth

2010/1/15 Dawn Felagun=
d <DawnFelag=
und@gmail.com>

















=A0




  



    

      
      
      <=
p>No, please, anyone who is participating in Help Haiti, post a link here s=
o that we can find you amid the hundreds of replies! :) I'm working on =
my own contribution now so will have more details soon.


Dawn




On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at =
8:17 AM, Marta <marta.fandom@gmail.com> wrote:



















I hope this isn't in bad taste, but h=
ere's the link where I put up my 

request:



http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/3155.html?t=
hread=3D2148179#t2148179


<=
/div>
-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://t=
hemidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.=
org





    
=C2=A0

Wendy, in answer to your third question, the strongest evidence I h=
ave found thus far for Feanor speaking out against Indis is the passage tha=
t Rey quoted from the Silm (which can also be found in the "Finwe and =
Miriel" chapter in the HoMe: "The wedding of his father was not p=
leasing to F=C3=ABanor; and he had no great love for Indis, nor for Fingolf=
in and Finarfin, her sons. He lived apart from them, exploring the land of =
Aman, or busying himself with the knowledge and the crafts in which he deli=
ghted" ("Of Feanor"). So, to the best of my knowledge, Feano=
r's declarations of contempt for Indis are fanon ... logically derived,=
 perhaps, but fanon nonetheless. :)



=C2=A0


I will ta=
ke a closer look at these texts when I get home. I am using my e-books righ=
t now, and my eyes can't take much more Courier text!


=C2=A0=



Dawn

THE EARLIEST VERSION OF THE STORY OF FINWE AND MIRI=
EL.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 
Now it is told that in the bearing of her son Mir=
iel was consumed=C2=A0 in=C2=A0 

spirit=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 body;=C2=A0 and=
=C2=A0 that=C2=A0=C2=A0 after=C2=A0 his=C2=A0=C2=A0 birth=C2=A0 she
year=
ned=C2=A0 for=C2=A0 rest=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 labour=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 l=
iving.=C2=A0 And=C2=A0 she=C2=A0 said to
Finwe: 'Never again shall=
=C2=A0 I bear=C2=A0 a child;=C2=A0 for strength=C2=A0 that would
have=C2=
=A0 nourished=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 life=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 many=C2=A0 has=C2=A0 gone=
 forth=C2=A0 into Feanaro.'*

Then=C2=A0 Manwe=C2=A0 granted=C2=A0 t=
he=C2=A0 prayer=C2=A0=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 Miriel.=C2=A0=C2=A0 And=C2=A0 she=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 went=C2=A0 to
Lorien,=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 laid=C2=A0 her=C2=A0 dow=
n=C2=A0 to=C2=A0 sleep=C2=A0 upon=C2=A0=C2=A0 a=C2=A0 bed=C2=A0=C2=A0 of=C2=
=A0 flowers
[)=C2=A0 beneath=C2=A0 a=C2=A0 silver=C2=A0 tree];=C2=A0 and=
=C2=A0 there=C2=A0 her=C2=A0 fair=C2=A0 body=C2=A0 remained
unwithered i=
n=C2=A0 the keeping=C2=A0 of the=C2=A0 maidens of=C2=A0 Este. But=C2=A0 her=
 spirit

passed to rest in the halls of Mandos.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 


=C2=A0


Finwe's grief was great, and he ga=
ve to=C2=A0 his son=C2=A0 all the=C2=A0 love that
he=C2=A0 had for=C2=A0=
 Miriel; for=C2=A0 Feanaro was=C2=A0 like his=C2=A0 mother in=C2=A0 voice a=
nd
countenance.=C2=A0 Yet=C2=A0 Finwe=C2=A0 was=C2=A0 not=C2=A0 content,=
 and=C2=A0 he desired=C2=A0 to have

more=C2=A0=C2=A0 children.=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 He=C2=A0=C2=A0 spoke,=C2=A0 therefore,=C2=A0=C2=A0 [>=C2=A0 After=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 some=C2=A0 years,
therefore,=C2=A0 he=C2=A0 spoke]=C2=A0 to=C2=
=A0 Manwe,=C2=A0 saying:=C2=A0=C2=A0 'Lord,=C2=A0 behold!=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=
=C2=A0 am
bereaved;=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 alone=C2=A0 among=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 El=
dar=C2=A0 I=C2=A0 am=C2=A0 without a=C2=A0 wife, and

must=C2=A0 hope=C2=
=A0 for=C2=A0 no=C2=A0 sons=C2=A0=C2=A0 save=C2=A0 one,=C2=A0=C2=A0 and=C2=
=A0 no=C2=A0=C2=A0 daughter.=C2=A0 Whereas
Ingwe=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 Olwe=C2=
=A0 beget=C2=A0 many=C2=A0 children=C2=A0 in the=C2=A0 bliss of=C2=A0 Aman.=
 Must
I=C2=A0 remain=C2=A0 ever=C2=A0 so? For=C2=A0 I deem=C2=A0 that Mi=
riel=C2=A0 will not=C2=A0 return again
ever from the house of Vaire.'=
;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 



=C2=A0


Then=C2=A0 Manwe=C2=A0 considered=C2=
=A0 the=C2=A0 words=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 Finwe;=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 after=C2=A0 a=C2=
=A0 time
he=C2=A0 summoned=C2=A0 all=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 counsellors=C2=A0 o=
f=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 Eldar,=C2=A0 and=C2=A0=C2=A0 in=C2=A0 their
hearing=C2=
=A0 Mandos=C2=A0 spoke=C2=A0 this=C2=A0 doom:=C2=A0 'This=C2=A0 is=C2=
=A0 the=C2=A0 law=C2=A0 of Iluvatar

for you [> This is the way of=C2=
=A0 life that=C2=A0 Iluvatar hath=C2=A0 ordained for
you],=C2=A0 his=C2=
=A0 children,=C2=A0 as you=C2=A0 know well:=C2=A0 the First-born=C2=A0 shal=
l take
one=C2=A0 spouse=C2=A0 only=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 have=C2=A0 no=C2=A0 o=
ther=C2=A0 in=C2=A0 this=C2=A0 life,=C2=A0 while=C2=A0 Arda

endureth.=
=C2=A0 But=C2=A0 this=C2=A0 law=C2=A0 takes=C2=A0=C2=A0 no=C2=A0 account=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 [)=C2=A0 But=C2=A0=C2=A0 herein=C2=A0 no
account=C2=A0 is=C2=
=A0 taken]=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 Death.=C2=A0 This=C2=A0 doom=C2=A0 is=C2=A0 there=
fore=C2=A0 now made,
by=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 right=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 lawgiving=
=C2=A0 that=C2=A0 Iluvatar=C2=A0 committed=C2=A0=C2=A0 to=C2=A0 Manwe:
t=
hat=C2=A0 if=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 spirit=C2=A0 of a=C2=A0 spouse, husband=C2=A0 =
or wife,=C2=A0 forsaking the

body,=C2=A0 shall=C2=A0 for any=C2=A0 caus=
e pass=C2=A0 into the=C2=A0 keeping of=C2=A0 Mandos, then
the living sha=
ll be permitted to=C2=A0 take another=C2=A0 spouse. But=C2=A0 this can
o=
nly be, if the=C2=A0 former union=C2=A0 be dissolved=C2=A0 for ever.=C2=A0 =
Therefore the
one that is=C2=A0 in the=C2=A0 keeping of=C2=A0 Mandos mus=
t=C2=A0 there remain=C2=A0 until the

end=C2=A0 of Arda,=C2=A0 and shall=
=C2=A0 not awake=C2=A0 again or=C2=A0 take bodily=C2=A0 form. For
none=
=C2=A0 among=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 Quendi=C2=A0 shall have=C2=A0 two spouses=C2=
=A0 at one=C2=A0 time alive
and awake. But since it is not to be thought=
=C2=A0 that the=C2=A0 living shall,
by=C2=A0 his=C2=A0 or=C2=A0 her=C2=
=A0 will=C2=A0 alone,=C2=A0 confine=C2=A0 the spirit=C2=A0 of the=C2=A0 oth=
er to

Mandos,=C2=A0 this=C2=A0 disunion shall=C2=A0 come to=C2=A0 pass =
only=C2=A0 by the=C2=A0 consent of
both.=C2=A0 And=C2=A0 after=C2=A0 the=
=C2=A0 giving=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 consent ten=C2=A0 years of=C2=A0 the=
 Valar
shall=C2=A0 pass=C2=A0 ere=C2=A0 Mandos=C2=A0 confirms=C2=A0 it.=
=C2=A0 Within=C2=A0 that=C2=A0 time=C2=A0 either party

may=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
revoke=C2=A0=C2=A0 this=C2=A0=C2=A0 consent;=C2=A0=C2=A0 but=C2=A0 when=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Mandos=C2=A0 has=C2=A0=C2=A0 confirmed=C2=A0 it,
and=C2=A0 the=
=C2=A0 living=C2=A0 spouse=C2=A0 has=C2=A0 wedded=C2=A0 another,=C2=A0 it s=
hall=C2=A0 be irrevocable
until the end of Arda. This is the doom of Nam=
o in this matter.'=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 


=C2=A0


It=C2=A0 is=C2=A0 said=C2=A0 that=C2=A0 Miriel=
=C2=A0 answered=C2=A0 Mandos=C2=A0 saying:=C2=A0 'I=C2=A0=C2=A0 came=C2=
=A0 hither
to escape from=C2=A0 the body,=C2=A0 and I=C2=A0 do not=C2=A0=
 desire ever=C2=A0 to return=C2=A0 to it';
and=C2=A0 after=C2=A0 ten=
=C2=A0 years=C2=A0 the=C2=A0=C2=A0 doom=C2=A0 of=C2=A0=C2=A0 disunion=C2=A0=
 was=C2=A0=C2=A0 spoken.=C2=A0 [Added:

And=C2=A0 Miriel=C2=A0 has=C2=A0=
 dwelt=C2=A0 ever=C2=A0 since=C2=A0 in the=C2=A0 house of=C2=A0 Vaire, and=
=C2=A0 it is
her=C2=A0 part=C2=A0 to record=C2=A0 there the=C2=A0 histor=
ies of=C2=A0 the kin=C2=A0 of Finwe=C2=A0 and all
the=C2=A0 deeds=C2=A0 =
of=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 Noldor.]=C2=A0 And=C2=A0=C2=A0 in=C2=A0 the=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
years=C2=A0 following=C2=A0=C2=A0 [>=C2=A0 But

when=C2=A0 three=C2=
=A0 years=C2=A0 more=C2=A0 had=C2=A0 passed]=C2=A0 Finwe=C2=A0=C2=A0 took=
=C2=A0 as=C2=A0=C2=A0 second=C2=A0 spouse
Indis=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 the=C2=A0=
 Vanyar,=C2=A0 of the=C2=A0 kin [>=C2=A0 sister] of=C2=A0 Ingwe; and=C2=
=A0 she bore
five=C2=A0 fair=C2=A0 children=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 whom=C2=A0 he=
r=C2=A0 two=C2=A0 sons=C2=A0=C2=A0 are=C2=A0 most=C2=A0=C2=A0 renowned=C2=
=A0 in

the=C2=A0 histories=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 Noldor.=C2=A0 But=
=C2=A0 her eldest=C2=A0 child was=C2=A0 a daughter,
Findis,=C2=A0 and=C2=
=A0 she=C2=A0 bore=C2=A0 also=C2=A0 two=C2=A0 other=C2=A0 daughters:=C2=A0 =
Irime=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 Faniel
[> Faniel and Irime].=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 


=C2=A0


The=C2=A0 wedding=C2=A0 of=C2=A0=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 father=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 was=C2=A0 not=C2=A0=C2=A0 pleasing=C2=A0 to=C2=A0=C2=A0 Feanar=
o;=C2=A0 and
though=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 love=C2=A0 between=C2=A0 them=C2=A0 =
was=C2=A0 not=C2=A0=C2=A0 lessened,=C2=A0 Feanaro=C2=A0=C2=A0 had=C2=A0 no<=
br>great=C2=A0 love=C2=A0 for=C2=A0 Indis=C2=A0 or=C2=A0 her=C2=A0 children=
, and=C2=A0 as soon=C2=A0 as he=C2=A0 might he

lived=C2=A0=C2=A0 apart=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 them,=C2=A0=C2=A0 being=C2=A0 busy=C2=A0=C2=A0 from=
=C2=A0 early=C2=A0=C2=A0 childhood=C2=A0 upon
the=C2=A0 lore=C2=A0 and=
=C2=A0 craft=C2=A0 in=C2=A0 which=C2=A0 he=C2=A0 delighted,=C2=A0=C2=A0 and=
=C2=A0 he=C2=A0=C2=A0 laboured=C2=A0 at
many tasks, being in all pursuit=
s eager and swift.


=C2=A0


(* [footnote to the text] T=
hus she named her son: Spirit-of-Fire: and
=C2=A0by that name=C2=A0 he w=
as=C2=A0 known among=C2=A0 the Eldar.=C2=A0 [Feanaro is=C2=A0 so spelt
=
=C2=A0here, but Feanaro subsequently.]


=C2=A0


(from H=
oMe X)



-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.n=
et/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

<=
/div>

--0016e6d77e3e8d159c047cfada3d--


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From: Alassante7 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
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1172 YV: judgment of the Valar concerning Finwe and Miriel
1182 YV: "disuni=
on" of marriage of Finwe and Miriel
=C2=A0
And to think I complain about ha=
ving to be separated for a year before I get divorced! 





~~**~~
I warn =
you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 
JRR Tolkien
=C2=A0



=

=C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- 
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=
=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=
=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:-

--- On Tue, 1/12/10, Dawn Felagund  wrote:


From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [Silm=
arillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@=
yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 12:19 PM


=C2=A0 




I'm=
 going to try to answer multiple emails at once so as not to spam the list.=
 :)
=C2=A0
Rey inquired about Feanor's age at marriage being twelve years o=
f age. I've never seen this in the texts, so if anyone has any further info=
rmation on where that may have come from, I'd be much obliged. :) I have mo=
ldering on Pengolodh (my laptop) at home a reference I've been working on f=
or some years now that tacks all of the different timelines together, and n=
one of the annals of Valinor/Aman note a date for Feanor's marriage. Rey, a=
s you noted, I do use "early youth" to justify that it was before Feanor wa=
s fifty years old, or before 1219 YV. To the best of my knowledge, beyond t=
hat, it's open to interpretation.
=C2=A0
Rey, the passage you noted where F=
inwe married Indis after three more years comes from "The Story of Finwe an=
d Miriel" in HoMe X. I had wanted to reread this anyway in answer to Wendy'=
s third question, so I just reread it now. The earliest version (which is n=
ot terribly long, so I'll tack it onto the bottom here) added a date to the=
 timeline from AAm, indicating that two years passed between Miriel's "deat=
h" and the judgment of the Valar concerning Finwe's desire to remarry. They=
 required a ten-year wait before "disunion," after which an additional thre=
e years passed before Finwe and Indis married (as Rey quoted). That adds to=
 the timeline I posted earlier:
=C2=A0
1169 YV: Feanor born
1170 YV: Miriel=
 dies
1172 YV: judgment of the Valar concerning Finwe and Miriel
1182 YV: "=
disunion" of marriage of Finwe and Miriel
1185 YV: Finwe weds Indis
1219 YV=
 (or earlier): weds Nerdanel
1219 YV (or later): begins learning from Mahta=
n
1250 YV: begins Tengwar and working with gemstones
=C2=A0
In a=C2=A0later=
 version, Finwe waits twelve years before approaching the Valar and the wai=
ting period for disunion is also twelve years. The same three years pass be=
tween disunion and his marriage to Indis, for a total of twenty-seven years=
 between Miriel's death and his remarriage.
=C2=A0
Wendy, in answer to your=
 third question, the strongest evidence I have found thus far for Feanor sp=
eaking out against Indis is the passage that Rey quoted from the Silm (whic=
h can also be found in the "Finwe and Miriel" chapter in the HoMe: "The wed=
ding of his father was not pleasing to F=C3=ABanor; and he had no great lov=
e for Indis, nor for Fingolfin and Finarfin, her sons. He lived apart from =
them, exploring the land of Aman, or busying himself with the knowledge and=
 the crafts in which he delighted" ("Of Feanor"). So, to the best of my kno=
wledge, Feanor's declarations of contempt for Indis are fanon ... logically=
 derived, perhaps, but fanon nonetheless. :)
=C2=A0
I will take a closer lo=
ok at these texts when I get home. I am using my e-books right now, and my =
eyes can't take much more Courier text!
=C2=A0
Dawn

THE EARLIEST VERSION O=
F THE STORY OF FINWE AND MIRIEL.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 
Now it is told that in th=
e bearing of her son Miriel was consumed=C2=A0 in=C2=A0 
spirit=C2=A0 and=
=C2=A0 body;=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 that=C2=A0=C2=A0 after=C2=A0 his=C2=A0=C2=A0 b=
irth=C2=A0 she
yearned=C2=A0 for=C2=A0 rest=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 labo=
ur=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 living.=C2=A0 And=C2=A0 she=C2=A0 said to
Finwe: 'Never a=
gain shall=C2=A0 I bear=C2=A0 a child;=C2=A0 for strength=C2=A0 that would
=
have=C2=A0 nourished=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 life=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 many=C2=A0 has=C2=
=A0 gone forth=C2=A0 into Feanaro.'*
Then=C2=A0 Manwe=C2=A0 granted=C2=A0 t=
he=C2=A0 prayer=C2=A0=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 Miriel.=C2=A0=C2=A0 And=C2=A0 she=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 went=C2=A0 to
Lorien,=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 laid=C2=A0 her=C2=A0 down=
=C2=A0 to=C2=A0 sleep=C2=A0 upon=C2=A0=C2=A0 a=C2=A0 bed=C2=A0=C2=A0 of=C2=
=A0 flowers
[)=C2=A0 beneath=C2=A0 a=C2=A0 silver=C2=A0 tree];=C2=A0 and=C2=
=A0 there=C2=A0 her=C2=A0 fair=C2=A0 body=C2=A0 remained
unwithered in=C2=
=A0 the keeping=C2=A0 of the=C2=A0 maidens of=C2=A0 Este. But=C2=A0 her spi=
rit
passed to rest in the halls of Mandos.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 
=
=C2=A0
Finwe's grief was great, and he gave to=C2=A0 his son=C2=A0 all the=
=C2=A0 love that
he=C2=A0 had for=C2=A0 Miriel; for=C2=A0 Feanaro was=C2=A0=
 like his=C2=A0 mother in=C2=A0 voice and
countenance.=C2=A0 Yet=C2=A0 Finw=
e=C2=A0 was=C2=A0 not=C2=A0 content, and=C2=A0 he desired=C2=A0 to have
mor=
e=C2=A0=C2=A0 children.=C2=A0=C2=A0 He=C2=A0=C2=A0 spoke,=C2=A0 therefore,=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 [>=C2=A0 After=C2=A0=C2=A0 some=C2=A0 years,
therefore,=C2=A0 =
he=C2=A0 spoke]=C2=A0 to=C2=A0 Manwe,=C2=A0 saying:=C2=A0=C2=A0 'Lord,=C2=
=A0 behold!=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=C2=A0 am
bereaved;=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 alone=C2=A0 am=
ong=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 Eldar=C2=A0 I=C2=A0 am=C2=A0 without a=C2=A0 wife, and
=
must=C2=A0 hope=C2=A0 for=C2=A0 no=C2=A0 sons=C2=A0=C2=A0 save=C2=A0 one,=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 no=C2=A0=C2=A0 daughter.=C2=A0 Whereas
Ingwe=C2=A0 a=
nd=C2=A0 Olwe=C2=A0 beget=C2=A0 many=C2=A0 children=C2=A0 in the=C2=A0 blis=
s of=C2=A0 Aman. Must
I=C2=A0 remain=C2=A0 ever=C2=A0 so? For=C2=A0 I deem=
=C2=A0 that Miriel=C2=A0 will not=C2=A0 return again
ever from the house of=
 Vaire.'=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 
=C2=A0
Then=C2=A0 Manwe=C2=A0 considered=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 word=
s=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 Finwe;=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 after=C2=A0 a=C2=A0 time
he=C2=A0 s=
ummoned=C2=A0 all=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 counsellors=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 Elda=
r,=C2=A0 and=C2=A0=C2=A0 in=C2=A0 their
hearing=C2=A0 Mandos=C2=A0 spoke=C2=
=A0 this=C2=A0 doom:=C2=A0 'This=C2=A0 is=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 law=C2=A0 of Iluv=
atar
for you [> This is the way of=C2=A0 life that=C2=A0 Iluvatar hath=C2=
=A0 ordained for
you],=C2=A0 his=C2=A0 children,=C2=A0 as you=C2=A0 know we=
ll:=C2=A0 the First-born=C2=A0 shall take
one=C2=A0 spouse=C2=A0 only=C2=A0=
 and=C2=A0 have=C2=A0 no=C2=A0 other=C2=A0 in=C2=A0 this=C2=A0 life,=C2=A0 =
while=C2=A0 Arda
endureth.=C2=A0 But=C2=A0 this=C2=A0 law=C2=A0 takes=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 no=C2=A0 account=C2=A0=C2=A0 [)=C2=A0 But=C2=A0=C2=A0 herein=C2=A0 n=
o
account=C2=A0 is=C2=A0 taken]=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 Death.=C2=A0 This=C2=A0 doom=
=C2=A0 is=C2=A0 therefore=C2=A0 now made,
by=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 right=C2=A0 of=
=C2=A0 lawgiving=C2=A0 that=C2=A0 Iluvatar=C2=A0 committed=C2=A0=C2=A0 to=
=C2=A0 Manwe:
that=C2=A0 if=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 spirit=C2=A0 of a=C2=A0 spouse,=
 husband=C2=A0 or wife,=C2=A0 forsaking the
body,=C2=A0 shall=C2=A0 for any=
=C2=A0 cause pass=C2=A0 into the=C2=A0 keeping of=C2=A0 Mandos, then
the li=
ving shall be permitted to=C2=A0 take another=C2=A0 spouse. But=C2=A0 this =
can
only be, if the=C2=A0 former union=C2=A0 be dissolved=C2=A0 for ever.=
=C2=A0 Therefore the
one that is=C2=A0 in the=C2=A0 keeping of=C2=A0 Mandos=
 must=C2=A0 there remain=C2=A0 until the
end=C2=A0 of Arda,=C2=A0 and shall=
=C2=A0 not awake=C2=A0 again or=C2=A0 take bodily=C2=A0 form. For
none=C2=
=A0 among=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 Quendi=C2=A0 shall have=C2=A0 two spouses=C2=A0 a=
t one=C2=A0 time alive
and awake. But since it is not to be thought=C2=A0 t=
hat the=C2=A0 living shall,
by=C2=A0 his=C2=A0 or=C2=A0 her=C2=A0 will=C2=
=A0 alone,=C2=A0 confine=C2=A0 the spirit=C2=A0 of the=C2=A0 other to
Mando=
s,=C2=A0 this=C2=A0 disunion shall=C2=A0 come to=C2=A0 pass only=C2=A0 by t=
he=C2=A0 consent of
both.=C2=A0 And=C2=A0 after=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 giving=C2=
=A0 of=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 consent ten=C2=A0 years of=C2=A0 the Valar
shall=C2=
=A0 pass=C2=A0 ere=C2=A0 Mandos=C2=A0 confirms=C2=A0 it.=C2=A0 Within=C2=A0=
 that=C2=A0 time=C2=A0 either party
may=C2=A0=C2=A0 revoke=C2=A0=C2=A0 this=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 consent;=C2=A0=C2=A0 but=C2=A0 when=C2=A0=C2=A0 Mandos=C2=A0 h=
as=C2=A0=C2=A0 confirmed=C2=A0 it,
and=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 living=C2=A0 spouse=
=C2=A0 has=C2=A0 wedded=C2=A0 another,=C2=A0 it shall=C2=A0 be irrevocable
=
until the end of Arda. This is the doom of Namo in this matter.'=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 
=C2=A0
It=C2=A0 is=C2=A0 said=C2=
=A0 that=C2=A0 Miriel=C2=A0 answered=C2=A0 Mandos=C2=A0 saying:=C2=A0 'I=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 came=C2=A0 hither
to escape from=C2=A0 the body,=C2=A0 and I=C2=
=A0 do not=C2=A0 desire ever=C2=A0 to return=C2=A0 to it';
and=C2=A0 after=
=C2=A0 ten=C2=A0 years=C2=A0 the=C2=A0=C2=A0 doom=C2=A0 of=C2=A0=C2=A0 disu=
nion=C2=A0 was=C2=A0=C2=A0 spoken.=C2=A0 [Added:
And=C2=A0 Miriel=C2=A0 has=
=C2=A0 dwelt=C2=A0 ever=C2=A0 since=C2=A0 in the=C2=A0 house of=C2=A0 Vaire=
, and=C2=A0 it is
her=C2=A0 part=C2=A0 to record=C2=A0 there the=C2=A0 hist=
ories of=C2=A0 the kin=C2=A0 of Finwe=C2=A0 and all
the=C2=A0 deeds=C2=A0 o=
f=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 Noldor.]=C2=A0 And=C2=A0=C2=A0 in=C2=A0 the=C2=A0=C2=A0 y=
ears=C2=A0 following=C2=A0=C2=A0 [>=C2=A0 But
when=C2=A0 three=C2=A0 years=
=C2=A0 more=C2=A0 had=C2=A0 passed]=C2=A0 Finwe=C2=A0=C2=A0 took=C2=A0 as=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 second=C2=A0 spouse
Indis=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 Vanyar,=C2=
=A0 of the=C2=A0 kin [>=C2=A0 sister] of=C2=A0 Ingwe; and=C2=A0 she bore
fi=
ve=C2=A0 fair=C2=A0 children=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 whom=C2=A0 her=C2=A0 two=C2=A0 =
sons=C2=A0=C2=A0 are=C2=A0 most=C2=A0=C2=A0 renowned=C2=A0 in
the=C2=A0 his=
tories=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 Noldor.=C2=A0 But=C2=A0 her eldest=C2=A0 ch=
ild was=C2=A0 a daughter,
Findis,=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 she=C2=A0 bore=C2=A0 also=
=C2=A0 two=C2=A0 other=C2=A0 daughters:=C2=A0 Irime=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 Faniel
=
[> Faniel and Irime].=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 
=C2=A0
The=C2=A0 wedding=C2=A0 of=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
the=C2=A0 father=C2=A0=C2=A0 was=C2=A0 not=C2=A0=C2=A0 pleasing=C2=A0 to=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Feanaro;=C2=A0 and
though=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 love=C2=A0 between=C2=
=A0 them=C2=A0 was=C2=A0 not=C2=A0=C2=A0 lessened,=C2=A0 Feanaro=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 had=C2=A0 no
great=C2=A0 love=C2=A0 for=C2=A0 Indis=C2=A0 or=C2=A0 her=
=C2=A0 children, and=C2=A0 as soon=C2=A0 as he=C2=A0 might he
lived=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 apart=C2=A0=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 them,=C2=A0=C2=A0 being=C2=A0 busy=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 early=C2=A0=C2=A0 childhood=C2=A0 upon
the=C2=A0 lore=
=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 craft=C2=A0 in=C2=A0 which=C2=A0 he=C2=A0 delighted,=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 he=C2=A0=C2=A0 laboured=C2=A0 at
many tasks, being in all =
pursuits eager and swift.
=C2=A0
(* [footnote to the text] Thus she named h=
er son: Spirit-of-Fire: and
=C2=A0by that name=C2=A0 he was=C2=A0 known amo=
ng=C2=A0 the Eldar.=C2=A0 [Feanaro is=C2=A0 so spelt
=C2=A0here, but Feanar=
o subsequently. ]
=C2=A0
(from HoMe X)

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://them=
idhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .or=
g








      
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1172 YV: judgment of the Valar conce=
rning Finwe and Miriel


1182 YV: "disunion" of marriage =
of Finwe and Miriel


 


And to think I compla=
in about having to be separated for a year before I get divorced! 

<=
/DIV>







~~**~~


I warn you, if you b=
ore me, I shall take my revenge.  


JRR Tolkien


 










 ..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))   -:=
=C2=A6:- 
=
        =
=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4  .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))  -:|:- =
;
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. =
Al=
assante<=
STRONG style=3D"COLOR: rgb(96,0,191)"><=
SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> .. =C2=BA=C2=B0
  &nbs=
p; -:=C2=A6:-    ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|:-


---=
 On Tue, 1/12/10, Dawn Felagund  wrote:



From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Earl=
y Life
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, Ja=
nuary 12, 2010, 12:19 PM



  





I'm going to try =
to answer multiple emails at once so as not to spam the list. :)

 


Rey inquired about Feanor's age at marriage being twelve=
 years of age. I've never seen this in the texts, so if anyone has any furt=
her information on where that may have come from, I'd be much obliged. :) I=
 have moldering on Pengolodh (my laptop) at home a reference I've been work=
ing on for some years now that tacks all of the different timelines togethe=
r, and none of the annals of Valinor/Aman note a date for Feanor's marriage=
. Rey, as you noted, I do use "early youth" to justify that it was before F=
eanor was fifty years old, or before 1219 YV. To the best of my knowledge, =
beyond that, it's open to interpretation.


 


Rey,=
 the passage you noted where Finwe married Indis after three more years com=
es from "The Story of Finwe and Miriel" in HoMe X. I had wanted to reread t=
his anyway in answer to Wendy's third question, so I just reread it now. Th=
e earliest version (which is not terribly long, so I'll tack it onto the bo=
ttom here) added a date to the timeline from AAm, indicating that two years=
 passed between Miriel's "death" and the judgment of the Valar concerning F=
inwe's desire to remarry. They required a ten-year wait before "disunion," =
after which an additional three years passed before Finwe and Indis married=
 (as Rey quoted). That adds to the timeline I posted earlier:


&n=
bsp;


1169 YV: Feanor born
1170 YV: Miriel dies


117=
2 YV: judgment of the Valar concerning Finwe and Miriel


1182 YV:=
 "disunion" of marriage of Finwe and Miriel
1185 YV: Finwe weds Indis1219 YV (or earlier): weds Nerdanel
1219 YV (or later): begins learning=
 from Mahtan
1250 YV: begins Tengwar and working with gemstones

 


In a later version, Finwe waits twelve years befo=
re approaching the Valar and the waiting period for disunion is also twelve=
 years. The same three years pass between disunion and his marriage to Indi=
s, for a total of twenty-seven years between Miriel's death and his remarri=
age.


 


Wendy, in answer to your third question, =
the strongest evidence I have found thus far for Feanor speaking out agains=
t Indis is the passage that Rey quoted from the Silm (which can also be fou=
nd in the "Finwe and Miriel" chapter in the HoMe: "The wedding of his fathe=
r was not pleasing to F=C3=ABanor; and he had no great love for Indis, nor =
for Fingolfin and Finarfin, her sons. He lived apart from them, exploring t=
he land of Aman, or busying himself with the knowledge and the crafts in wh=
ich he delighted" ("Of Feanor"). So, to the best of my knowledge, Feanor's =
declarations of contempt for Indis are fanon ... logically derived, perhaps=
, but fanon nonetheless. :)


 


I will take a clos=
er look at these texts when I get home. I am using my e-books right now, an=
d my eyes can't take much more Courier text!


 


D=
awn

THE EARLIEST VERSION OF THE STORY OF FINWE AND MIRIEL. &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;  
          &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;  
Now it is told that in the bearing of her son Miriel was consum=
ed  in  
spirit  and  body;  and  that&nbs=
p;  after  his   birth  she
yearned  for&n=
bsp; rest  from  the  labour  of 
 living.  A=
nd  she  said to
Finwe: 'Never again shall  I bear  =
a child;  for strength  that would
have  nourished  =
the  life  of  many  has  gone forth  into Fe=
anaro.'*
Then  Manwe  granted  the  prayer &nbs=
p; of  Miriel.   And  she   went  to
=
Lorien,  and  laid  her  down  to  sleep =
; upon   a  bed   of  flowers
[)  ben=
eath  a  silver  tree];  and  there  her =
; fair  body  remained
unwithered in  the keeping  o=
f the  maidens of  Este. But  her spirit
passed to rest i=
n the halls of Mandos.         =
;            &n=
bsp;        
 


 

Finwe's grief was great, and he gave to  his son  all th=
e  love that
he  had for  Miriel; for  Feanaro was&n=
bsp; like his  mother in  voice and
countenance.  Yet&nbs=
p; Finwe  was  not  content, and  he desired  to h=
ave
more   children.   He   spoke,  t=
herefore,   [>  After   some  years,
th=
erefore,  he  spoke]  to  Manwe,  saying: &nb=
sp; 'Lord,  behold!   I  am
bereaved;  and =
; alone  among  the  Eldar  I  am  without a&=
nbsp; wife, and
must  hope  for  no  sons  =
; save  one,   and  no   daughter.  Wher=
eas
Ingwe  and  Olwe  beget  many  children&nbs=
p; in the  bliss of  Aman. Must
I  remain 
 ever&nbs=
p; so? For  I deem  that Miriel  will not  return again=

ever from the house of Vaire.'       =
;            &n=
bsp;            =
;       


 


Then&nb=
sp; Manwe  considered  the  words  of  Finwe; =
; and  after  a  time
he  summoned  all  t=
he  counsellors  of  the  Eldar,  and   =
in  their
hearing  Mandos  spoke  this  doom:&n=
bsp; 'This  is  the  law  of Iluvatar
for you [> =
This is the way of  life that  Iluvatar hath  ordained foryou],  his  children,  as you  know well:  the F=
irst-born  shall take
one  spouse  only  and  h=
ave  no  other  in  this  life,  while  =
Arda
endureth.  But  this  law  takes   no=
  account   [)  But   herein  no
acco=
unt  is  taken]  of  Death.  This  doom =
 is  therefore  now made,
by 
 the  right  of&n=
bsp; lawgiving  that  Iluvatar  committed   to&nbs=
p; Manwe:
that  if  the  spirit  of a  spouse, =
husband  or wife,  forsaking the
body,  shall  for a=
ny  cause pass  into the  keeping of  Mandos, then
t=
he living shall be permitted to  take another  spouse. But  =
this can
only be, if the  former union  be dissolved  for=
 ever.  Therefore the
one that is  in the  keeping of&nbs=
p; Mandos must  there remain  until the
end  of Arda,&nbs=
p; and shall  not awake  again or  take bodily  form. F=
or
none  among  the  Quendi  shall have  two sp=
ouses  at one  time alive
and awake. But since it is not to be=
 thought  that the  living shall,
by  his  or  =
her  will  alone, 
 confine  the spirit  of the&nb=
sp; other to
Mandos,  this  disunion shall  come to =
 pass only  by the  consent of
both.  And  after&nbs=
p; the  giving  of  the  consent ten  years of&nbs=
p; the Valar
shall  pass  ere  Mandos  confirms =
; it.  Within  that  time  either party
may &nb=
sp; revoke   this   consent;   but  when=
   Mandos  has   confirmed  it,
and  =
the  living  spouse  has  wedded  another,  i=
t shall  be irrevocable
until the end of Arda. This is the doom of =
Namo in this matter.'         

 


It  is  said  that  Miriel&nbs=
p; answered  Mandos  saying:  'I   came  hith=
er
to escape from  the body,  and I  do not  desire =
ever  to return  to it';
and  after  ten  years=
  the   doom  of   disunion  was &n=
bsp; spoken.  [Added:
And  Miriel  has  dwelt  =
ever  since  in the  house of  Vaire, and  it isher  part  to record  there the  histories of  t=
he kin  of Finwe  and all
the  deeds  of  the&n=
bsp; Noldor.]  And   in  the   years  fo=
llowing   [>  But
when  three  years  m=
ore  had  passed]  Finwe   took  as &nbs=
p; second  spouse
Indis  of  the  Vanyar,  of t=
he  kin
 [>  sister] of  Ingwe; and  she bore
fiv=
e  fair  children  of  whom  her  two  s=
ons   are  most   renowned  in
the  h=
istories  of  the  Noldor.  But  her eldest  =
child was  a daughter,
Findis,  and  she  bore =
 also  two  other  daughters:  Irime  and  Fa=
niel
[> Faniel and Irime].       &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;       


 


The&nb=
sp; wedding  of   the  father   was  not=
   pleasing  to   Feanaro;  and
though&nbs=
p; the  love  between  them  was  not   =
lessened,  Feanaro   had  no
great  love  =
for  Indis  or  her  children, and  as soon  =
as he  might he
lived   apart   from  them=
,   being  busy   from  early   chi=
ldhood  upon
the  lore  and  craft  in  wh=
ich  he  delighted,   and  he   laboured=
  at
many tasks, being in all pursuits eager and swift.


=
 


(* [footnote to the text] Thus she named her son: Spirit-=
of-Fire: and
 by that name  he was  known among  the=
 Eldar.  [Feanaro is  so spelt
 here, but Feanaro subsequ=
ently. ]


 


(from HoMe X)





      
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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
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Thanks, Dawn. 

So it looks like I have a choice between a hasty 15 years, =
when Feanor would have been like a precocious 8 year old, or a more conside=
red 27 years, when he would have been more like a hormonal teen. I think I'=
ll go for the 27 year option, so Feanor can be less accepting (older stepki=
ds are more resentful of new partners than younger ones, as a rule) and mor=
e sulky about it. He can also ask some very awkward questions - mine, reall=
y - such as, "If Ada didn't marry Indis, would Amme be able to come back on=
e day?"

"Why does Amme want to stay in Mandos?"

"Could Amme come back if =
Indis died?"

Later on, Morgoth can pour salt into his wounds by suggesting=
 that it's Indis's fault that Miriel can't come back because she seduced hi=
s father into marriage. Thus Feanor excuses his father while blaming Indis.=


According to the text you have kindly provided, the disunion was dependen=
t on the death of one spouse. Miriel had to agree to remain in Mandos forev=
er to facilitate the wedding of Finwe to Indis. Therefore, Feanor one heck =
of a good reason to have a grudge against the Valar: they have neither offe=
red nor attempted to restore his mother. This assumption is based on Miriel=
 only wanting to remain in Mandos because she felt so depleted - and perhap=
s she was afraid that if she returned, Finwe would expect her to bear him m=
ore children, a prospect fraught with the terror of "Not this again!"

I'm =
looking forward to writing a meaty psychological angst-fic based on this! :=
D



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You're welcome! :) I use questions on the list as a good excuse to reread
texts that I should be rereading periodically anyway.

Some other wrenches to throw into the cogs (because, as I said on the
archive, I like to make things as complicated as possible):

If you want Feanor to be at an age where he would be mature enough to
question Finwe's motives, I really think either scenario would work. Going
with the *Laws and Customs* again, Elven children mature faster than mortal
children, and Feanor is precocious by *anyone's* standards, so I think that
at either age, he would have the mental faculties to make those sorts of
connections.

"Finwe and Miriel" has more on how Finwe and Indis met. Indis had loved him
from afar when the Noldor and Vanyar lived together in Tirion but contented
herself with solitude (without bitterness, or so the text says) since he was
already taken. She took to wandering the "fields and friths of the Valar."
When Miriel and Finwe's marriage was formally ended, Ingwe suggested to
Finwe that he come to stay with him to escape the grief and memories of
Tirion, and he consented and met Indis in her wanderings. In one version,
she sings out in joy at the sight of him, he looks up at her, knows of her
love, and comes to love her in turn.

In one of the later versions, Feanor is away wandering in the mountains when
Finwe decides to visit Ingwe in Valmar, meets Indis, and so on.

Anyway, given that her love for Finwe dated from before Miriel's death, I
think Melkor certainly would have taken advantage of that fact.

I too have always viewed Feanor's antipathy toward Indis as stemming from
his (mistaken) belief that *she* was the cause of his mother's death. In
fact, it was Finwe or Miriel or even Feanor (depending on how you look at
it), but my Feanor is unable to ever come to terms with that fact; instead,
he pours that anger into greater loathing of his step-family.

I know you don't have the HoMe, but "Finwe and Miriel" is an interesting
read in its entirety (though rather long); even if you must nab one off the
shelf at the bookstore for an hour or so. (Most of my early knowledge of the
HoMe came from doing just that on pretty much a weekly basis ... ;)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

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You're welcome! :) I use questions on the list as a good excuse to=
 reread texts that I should be rereading periodically anyway.


=
=C2=A0


Some other wrenches to throw into the cogs (because, as I=
 said on the archive, I like to make things as complicated as possible):

=C2=A0


If you want Feanor to be at an age where he woul=
d be mature enough to question Finwe's motives, I really think either s=
cenario would work. Going with the Laws and Customs again, Elven c=
hildren mature faster than mortal children, and Feanor is precocious by anyone's standards, so I think that at either age, he would have =
the mental faculties to make those sorts of connections.



=C2=A0=



"Finwe and Miriel" has more on how Finwe and Indis me=
t. Indis had loved him from afar when the Noldor and Vanyar lived together =
in Tirion but contented herself with solitude (without bitterness, or so th=
e text says)=C2=A0since he was already taken. She took to wandering the &qu=
ot;fields and friths of the Valar." When Miriel and Finwe's marria=
ge was formally ended, Ingwe suggested to Finwe that he come to stay with h=
im to escape the grief and memories of Tirion, and he consented and met Ind=
is in her wanderings. In one version, she sings out in joy at the sight of =
him, he looks up at her, knows of her love, and comes to love her in turn.<=
/div>


=C2=A0


In one of the later versions, Feanor is away =
wandering in the mountains when Finwe decides to visit Ingwe in Valmar, mee=
ts Indis, and so on.


=C2=A0


Anyway, given that her lo=
ve for Finwe dated from before Miriel's death, I think Melkor certainly=
 would have taken advantage of that fact.


=C2=A0


I to=
o have always viewed Feanor's antipathy toward Indis as stemming from h=
is (mistaken) belief that she was the cause of his mother's de=
ath. In fact, it was Finwe or Miriel or even Feanor (depending on how you l=
ook at it), but my Feanor is unable to ever come to terms with that fact; i=
nstead, he pours that anger into greater loathing of his step-family.
=



=C2=A0


I know you don't have the HoMe, but "Finw=
e and Miriel" is an interesting read in its entirety (though rather lo=
ng); even if you must nab one off the shelf at the bookstore for an hour or=
 so. (Most of my early knowledge of the HoMe came from doing just that on p=
retty much a weekly basis ... ;)



=C2=A0


Dawn

<=
div>
-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwr=
itersguild.org




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From: melissa chandra 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
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Thanks for the elaborate answers and quotations, Dawn! And I think I though=
t Feanaro was 12 years old when Finwe married again because of the length o=
f the separation before the disunion (12 years)... So it was my fault. :emb=
arrassed:
=C2=A0
Well... I think so, Wendy, about Feanaro's grudge towards =
the Valar... in fanon. (LOL Dawn, I did say "silent" contempt; not shown/sp=
oken. *grin*)
=C2=A0
Mm. Elven children walk and talk (they master it) at t=
he age of 1, so I guess not much changes later on. Tolkien was rather ambig=
uous with the mental and physical abilities of his Elven children so... wel=
l... To me, it looks like Feanaro was old enough in terms of physical and m=
ental abilities to ask in the age of 8; physical more than mental, if you g=
et my meanning? If older, his questions would not have been that childish. =
And yes, I agree with Dawn that he has always been a precautious child.

- =
Rey
=C2=A0

--- On Tue, 1/12/10, Dawn Felagund  wro=
te:


From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [Silmarilli=
onWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoog=
roups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 2:07 PM


=C2=A0 




You're wel=
come! :) I use questions on the list as a good excuse to reread texts that =
I should be rereading periodically anyway.
=C2=A0
Some other wrenches to th=
row into the cogs (because, as I said on the archive, I like to make things=
 as complicated as possible):
=C2=A0
If you want Feanor to be at an age whe=
re he would be mature enough to question Finwe's motives, I really think ei=
ther scenario would work. Going with the Laws and Customs again, Elven chil=
dren mature faster than mortal children, and Feanor is precocious by anyone=
's standards, so I think that at either age, he would have the mental facul=
ties to make those sorts of connections.
=C2=A0
"Finwe and Miriel" has more=
 on how Finwe and Indis met. Indis had loved him from afar when the Noldor =
and Vanyar lived together in Tirion but contented herself with solitude (wi=
thout bitterness, or so the text says)=C2=A0since he was already taken. She=
 took to wandering the "fields and friths of the Valar." When Miriel and Fi=
nwe's marriage was formally ended, Ingwe suggested to Finwe that he come to=
 stay with him to escape the grief and memories of Tirion, and he consented=
 and met Indis in her wanderings. In one version, she sings out in joy at t=
he sight of him, he looks up at her, knows of her love, and comes to love h=
er in turn.
=C2=A0
In one of the later versions, Feanor is away wandering i=
n the mountains when Finwe decides to visit Ingwe in Valmar, meets Indis, a=
nd so on.
=C2=A0
Anyway, given that her love for Finwe dated from before Mi=
riel's death, I think Melkor certainly would have taken advantage of that f=
act.
=C2=A0
I too have always viewed Feanor's antipathy toward Indis as ste=
mming from his (mistaken) belief that she was the cause of his mother's dea=
th. In fact, it was Finwe or Miriel or even Feanor (depending on how you lo=
ok at it), but my Feanor is unable to ever come to terms with that fact; in=
stead, he pours that anger into greater loathing of his step-family.
=C2=A0=

I know you don't have the HoMe, but "Finwe and Miriel" is an interesting r=
ead in its entirety (though rather long); even if you must nab one off the =
shelf at the bookstore for an hour or so. (Most of my early knowledge of th=
e HoMe came from doing just that on pretty much a weekly basis ... ;)
=C2=
=A0
Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremas=
ter/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org








      
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Thanks for the elaborate answers and quo=
tations, Dawn! And I think I thought Feanaro was 12 years old when Finwe ma=
rried again because of the length of the separation before the disunion (12=
 years)... So it was my fault. :embarrassed:


 


W=
ell... I think so, Wendy, about Feanaro's grudge towards the Valar... in fa=
non. (LOL Dawn, I did say "silent" contempt; not shown/spoken. *grin*)

 


Mm. Elven children walk and talk (they master it) =
at the age of 1, so I guess not much changes later on. Tolkien was rather a=
mbiguous with the mental and physical abilities of his Elven children so...=
 well... To me, it looks like Feanaro was old enough in terms of physical a=
nd mental abilities to ask in the age of 8; physical more than mental, if y=
ou get my meanning? If older, his questions would not have been that childi=
sh. And yes, I agree with Dawn that he has always been a precautious child.=



- Rey


 



--- On Tue, 1/12/=
10, Dawn Felagund  wrote:



From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
T=
o: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2=
010, 2:07 PM



=
  





You're welcome! :) I use que=
stions on the list as a good excuse to reread texts that I should be reread=
ing periodically anyway.


 


Some other wrenches t=
o throw into the cogs (because, as I said on the archive, I like to make th=
ings as complicated as possible):


 


If you want =
Feanor to be at an age where he would be mature enough to question Finwe's =
motives, I really think either scenario would work. Going with the Laws=
 and Customs again, Elven children mature faster than mortal children,=
 and Feanor is precocious by anyone's standards, so I think that a=
t either age, he would have the mental faculties to make those sorts of con=
nections.


 


"Finwe and Miriel" has more on how F=
inwe and Indis met. Indis had loved him from afar when the Noldor and Vanya=
r lived together in Tirion but contented herself with solitude (without bit=
terness, or so the text says) since he was already taken. She took to =
wandering the "fields and friths of the Valar." When Miriel and Finwe's mar=
riage was formally ended, Ingwe suggested to Finwe that he come to stay wit=
h him to escape the grief and memories of Tirion, and he consented and met =
Indis in her wanderings. In one version, she sings out in joy at the sight =
of him, he looks up at her, knows of her love, and comes to love her in tur=
n.


 


In one of the later versions, Feanor is awa=
y wandering in the mountains when Finwe decides to visit Ingwe in Valmar, m=
eets Indis, and so on.


 


Anyway, given that her =
love for Finwe dated from before Miriel's death, I think Melkor certainly w=
ould have taken advantage of that fact.


 


I too =
have always viewed Feanor's antipathy toward Indis as stemming from his (mi=
staken) belief that she was the cause of his mother's death. In fa=
ct, it was Finwe or Miriel or even Feanor (depending on how you look at it)=
, but my Feanor is unable to ever come to terms with that fact; instead, he=
 pours that anger into greater loathing of his step-family.


&nbs=
p;


I know you don't have the HoMe, but "Finwe and Miriel" is an =
interesting read in its entirety (though rather long); even if you must nab=
 one off the shelf at the bookstore for an hour or so. (Most of my early kn=
owledge of the HoMe came from doing just that on pretty much a weekly basis=
 ... ;)


 


Dawn


=






      
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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
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Thanks, Dawn. 

I'm so grateful to you for this!

I agree that either scena=
rio would work, but I want to show a progression in maturation, so I'll go =
from one to the other, and use both, taking account of what you've said.

I=
 like the idea of Indis' love for Finwe being a constant thing since before=
 Feanaro's birth. Now I take the position that "Doom" is an element in the =
legendarium that exists to put a spanner in the works. Doom brought Drauglu=
in into Doriath past the Girdle of Melian, for example. Namo, though he is =
the Doomsman, is not responsible for this - it is outside his control. If F=
eanaro doesn't know this, he may well believe he has a legitimate case agai=
nst the Valar. 

Fanon or not, he does need a basis for his rebellion, incl=
uding his refusal to hand over the Silmarils. Yes, there was that thing abo=
ut breaking his heart if they were broken, but he does not seem to have sho=
wn any loyalty to anyone but his father throughout the texts I've read. So.=
..

In my story, Mahtan's Apprentice

Miriel finds herself increasingly dra=
ined by Feanaro until she gives birth to him, at which point she is so depl=
eted, she ends up in Mandos. This is a result of a great Doom from outside =
Ea. The Valar do what they can, but cannot affect the outcome of events, as=
 they have never had to deal with something like this before. 

Manwe goes =
to Iluvatar and asks for His help. Iluvatar tells him "The wheels are now i=
n motion, and cannot be stopped. Feanor will bring about glory and sorrow i=
n equal measure to the Elves. Melkor will slay him, but his kind will be Me=
lkor's undoing." Manwe is horrified by the visions that unfold before him, =
but Iluvatar replies that this was the theme woven into the Great Music by =
Melkor, and must run its course. The Ainur are permitted to aid the Elves, =
but there is no way to prevent those events that are fixed in time by the s=
ong of any of the Ainur, including Melkor. That is the form and substance o=
f Doom. 

This encounter is what permits Manwe to allow the disunion so Fin=
we can wed Indis. Feanaro knows nothing of what's going on behind the scene=
s, but does have a big guilt thing going on, which he transfers to Indis, u=
sing her long love for his father as the lever. All the weight he is burden=
ed with, he passes to her because, whatever his part in Miriel's death, Ind=
is is keeping her in Mandos.

A simmering suspicious resentment that begins=
 when he is 12 and surfaces when he is 27 begins with his father's associat=
ion, then courtship, with Indis. Feanaro is sullen and unwilling to have mu=
ch to do with her, and when she gets pregnant, he hopes she will pop her cl=
ogs. Nothin' doing. She has several children, which really annoys Feanaro b=
ecause it proves Indis is here to stay and convinces him that his mother is=
 being slighted by comparison. She had but one kid and snuffed it, after al=
l. He refers to his half-brothers as "the sons of Indis" and "the others," =
and avoids contact with them.

Finwe indulges his firstborn son as a result=
 of the guilt he feels. He assumes some responsibility for Miriel's death, =
but like most guilty people, tries to shift some of it to her for not makin=
g more of an effort to remain and the rest to a weakness in the Valar. If y=
ou twist his arm, he'll admit to the one about Miriel, but cannot be induce=
d to admit to what he really thinks of the Valar. This is what motivates hi=
m to hold himself unkinged and move to Formenos. His whole relationship wit=
h Feanaro is about placating him because, at a level he is barely aware of,=
 he believes Feanaro is right.

The result is a rather self-centred, self-r=
ighteous, manipulative young man with massive control issues who has a dysf=
unctional family, which he disrupts when he is around. Accustomed to gettin=
g his own way, he finds it hard to interact with others normally because he=
 is too far above them in his own estimation. His intelligence and talents =
prove him right in much of what he does, and people are so overwhelmed with=
 amazement at what he can do that they excuse the bad things he does. They =
just love the fact that he's clever and like the thought of being part of h=
is circle so they can share in his cleverness.

Most of this is due to his =
upbringing - he can be very gentle and kind, and often just gives really co=
ol things away. He's charismatic and very good at winning people over by in=
volving them in exciting things he does. This is why a great part of the No=
ldor follow him to Formenos, Middle-earth. He's a bit of a conspiracy theor=
ist, and tends to share them with close confidantes. They then spread them,=
 and voila! Rebellion. Feanaro's conspiracy theories are often so close to =
the truth that people can't tell the difference between facts and spin. Fea=
naro is the king of spin.

I'll be lifting ideas from Thank You For Smoking=
 to demonstrate how he does this. 

His relationship with Nerdanel works be=
cause of their mutual admiration. Then she tries to turn him away from his =
rebelliousness until he becomes suspicious of her motives and begins to see=
 her as an agent of the Valar. He goes from rage to "permanently butthurt" =
to get her on his side, portraying himself as a victim who needs her help t=
o defend him from the forces arrayed against him. He dismisses the violent =
things he does as "only asserting his right to what was his," and "only exp=
ressing his frustration." He uses "only" and "but" a lot.

Eventually, I'll=
 tie it in with my story about the statue, but tell it from his point of vi=
ew. He feels betrayed...

So that's the idea. Does it work canonically?



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Amusing... in a morbid sort of way. Wrapped nicely. Most are canonical, but=
 you inserted several assumptions which struck true. At least to me. Things=
 were quite detailed, and they actually made sense - a lot. (Heh. And I lov=
e how you told the whole theory. :P)
=C2=A0
- Rey


--- On Wed, 1/13/10, We=
ndy  wrote:


From: Wendy 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
To: Sil=
marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 6:=
48 AM


=C2=A0 



Thanks, Dawn. 

I'm so grateful to you for this!

I agre=
e that either scenario would work, but I want to show a progression in matu=
ration, so I'll go from one to the other, and use both, taking account of w=
hat you've said.

I like the idea of Indis' love for Finwe being a constant=
 thing since before Feanaro's birth. Now I take the position that "Doom" is=
 an element in the legendarium that exists to put a spanner in the works. D=
oom brought Draugluin into Doriath past the Girdle of Melian, for example. =
Namo, though he is the Doomsman, is not responsible for this - it is outsid=
e his control. If Feanaro doesn't know this, he may well believe he has a l=
egitimate case against the Valar. 

Fanon or not, he does need a basis for =
his rebellion, including his refusal to hand over the Silmarils. Yes, there=
 was that thing about breaking his heart if they were broken, but he does n=
ot seem to have shown any loyalty to anyone but his father throughout the t=
exts I've read. So...

In my story, Mahtan's Apprentice

Miriel finds herse=
lf increasingly drained by Feanaro until she gives birth to him, at which p=
oint she is so depleted, she ends up in Mandos. This is a result of a great=
 Doom from outside Ea. The Valar do what they can, but cannot affect the ou=
tcome of events, as they have never had to deal with something like this be=
fore. 

Manwe goes to Iluvatar and asks for His help. Iluvatar tells him "T=
he wheels are now in motion, and cannot be stopped. Feanor will bring about=
 glory and sorrow in equal measure to the Elves. Melkor will slay him, but =
his kind will be Melkor's undoing." Manwe is horrified by the visions that =
unfold before him, but Iluvatar replies that this was the theme woven into =
the Great Music by Melkor, and must run its course. The Ainur are permitted=
 to aid the Elves, but there is no way to prevent those events that are fix=
ed in time by the song of any of the Ainur, including Melkor. That is the f=
orm and substance of Doom. 

This encounter is what permits Manwe to allow =
the disunion so Finwe can wed Indis. Feanaro knows nothing of what's going =
on behind the scenes, but does have a big guilt thing going on, which he tr=
ansfers to Indis, using her long love for his father as the lever. All the =
weight he is burdened with, he passes to her because, whatever his part in =
Miriel's death, Indis is keeping her in Mandos.

A simmering suspicious res=
entment that begins when he is 12 and surfaces when he is 27 begins with hi=
s father's association, then courtship, with Indis. Feanaro is sullen and u=
nwilling to have much to do with her, and when she gets pregnant, he hopes =
she will pop her clogs. Nothin' doing. She has several children, which real=
ly annoys Feanaro because it proves Indis is here to stay and convinces him=
 that his mother is being slighted by comparison. She had but one kid and s=
nuffed it, after all. He refers to his half-brothers as "the sons of Indis"=
 and "the others," and avoids contact with them.

Finwe indulges his firstb=
orn son as a result of the guilt he feels. He assumes some responsibility f=
or Miriel's death, but like most guilty people, tries to shift some of it t=
o her for not making more of an effort to remain and the rest to a weakness=
 in the Valar. If you twist his arm, he'll admit to the one about Miriel, b=
ut cannot be induced to admit to what he really thinks of the Valar. This i=
s what motivates him to hold himself unkinged and move to Formenos. His who=
le relationship with Feanaro is about placating him because, at a level he =
is barely aware of, he believes Feanaro is right.

The result is a rather s=
elf-centred, self-righteous, manipulative young man with massive control is=
sues who has a dysfunctional family, which he disrupts when he is around. A=
ccustomed to getting his own way, he finds it hard to interact with others =
normally because he is too far above them in his own estimation. His intell=
igence and talents prove him right in much of what he does, and people are =
so overwhelmed with amazement at what he can do that they excuse the bad th=
ings he does. They just love the fact that he's clever and like the thought=
 of being part of his circle so they can share in his cleverness.

Most of =
this is due to his upbringing - he can be very gentle and kind, and often j=
ust gives really cool things away. He's charismatic and very good at winnin=
g people over by involving them in exciting things he does. This is why a g=
reat part of the Noldor follow him to Formenos, Middle-earth. He's a bit of=
 a conspiracy theorist, and tends to share them with close confidantes. The=
y then spread them, and voila! Rebellion. Feanaro's conspiracy theories are=
 often so close to the truth that people can't tell the difference between =
facts and spin. Feanaro is the king of spin.

I'll be lifting ideas from Th=
ank You For Smoking to demonstrate how he does this. 

His relationship wit=
h Nerdanel works because of their mutual admiration. Then she tries to turn=
 him away from his rebelliousness until he becomes suspicious of her motive=
s and begins to see her as an agent of the Valar. He goes from rage to "per=
manently butthurt" to get her on his side, portraying himself as a victim w=
ho needs her help to defend him from the forces arrayed against him. He dis=
misses the violent things he does as "only asserting his right to what was =
his," and "only expressing his frustration. " He uses "only" and "but" a lo=
t.

Eventually, I'll tie it in with my story about the statue, but tell it =
from his point of view. He feels betrayed...

So that's the idea. Does it w=
ork canonically?









      
--0-1572702693-1263388471=:85001
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Amusing... in a morbid sort of way. Wrap=
ped nicely. Most are canonical, but you inserted several assumptions which =
struck true. At least to me. Things were quite detailed, and they actually =
made sense - a lot. (Heh. And I love how you told the whole theory. :P)

 


- Rey




--- On Wed, 1/13/10, =
Wendy  wrote:


From: Wendy 
Subje=
ct: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
To: SilmarillionW=
ritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 6:48 AM


  =




Thanks, Dawn. 

I'm so grateful to you for=
 this!

I agree that either scenario would work, but I want to show a=
 progression in maturation, so I'll go from one to the other, and use both,=
 taking account of what you've said.

I like the idea of Indis' love =
for Finwe being a constant thing since before Feanaro's birth. Now I take t=
he position that "Doom" is an element in the legendarium that exists to put=
 a spanner in the works. Doom brought Draugluin into Doriath past the Girdl=
e of Melian, for example. Namo, though he is the Doomsman, is not responsib=
le for this - it is outside his control. If Feanaro doesn't know this, he m=
ay well believe he has a legitimate case against the Valar. 

Fanon o=
r not, he does need a basis for his rebellion, including his refusal to han=
d over the Silmarils. Yes, there was that thing about breaking his heart if=
 they were broken, but he does not seem to have shown any loyalty to anyone=
 but his father
 throughout the texts I've read. So...

In my story, =
Mahtan's Apprentice

Miriel finds herself increasingly drained by Fea=
naro until she gives birth to him, at which point she is so depleted, she e=
nds up in Mandos. This is a result of a great Doom from outside Ea. The Val=
ar do what they can, but cannot affect the outcome of events, as they have =
never had to deal with something like this before. 

Manwe goes to Il=
uvatar and asks for His help. Iluvatar tells him "The wheels are now in mot=
ion, and cannot be stopped. Feanor will bring about glory and sorrow in equ=
al measure to the Elves. Melkor will slay him, but his kind will be Melkor'=
s undoing." Manwe is horrified by the visions that unfold before him, but I=
luvatar replies that this was the theme woven into the Great Music by Melko=
r, and must run its course. The Ainur are permitted to aid the Elves, but t=
here is no way to prevent those events that are fixed in time by the song o=
f any of
 the Ainur, including Melkor. That is the form and substance of Do=
om. 

This encounter is what permits Manwe to allow the disunion so F=
inwe can wed Indis. Feanaro knows nothing of what's going on behind the sce=
nes, but does have a big guilt thing going on, which he transfers to Indis,=
 using her long love for his father as the lever. All the weight he is burd=
ened with, he passes to her because, whatever his part in Miriel's death, I=
ndis is keeping her in Mandos.

A simmering suspicious resentment tha=
t begins when he is 12 and surfaces when he is 27 begins with his father's =
association, then courtship, with Indis. Feanaro is sullen and unwilling to=
 have much to do with her, and when she gets pregnant, he hopes she will po=
p her clogs. Nothin' doing. She has several children, which really annoys F=
eanaro because it proves Indis is here to stay and convinces him that his m=
other is being slighted by comparison. She had but one kid and snuffed it,
=
 after all. He refers to his half-brothers as "the sons of Indis" and "the =
others," and avoids contact with them.

Finwe indulges his firstborn =
son as a result of the guilt he feels. He assumes some responsibility for M=
iriel's death, but like most guilty people, tries to shift some of it to he=
r for not making more of an effort to remain and the rest to a weakness in =
the Valar. If you twist his arm, he'll admit to the one about Miriel, but c=
annot be induced to admit to what he really thinks of the Valar. This is wh=
at motivates him to hold himself unkinged and move to Formenos. His whole r=
elationship with Feanaro is about placating him because, at a level he is b=
arely aware of, he believes Feanaro is right.

The result is a rather=
 self-centred, self-righteous, manipulative young man with massive control =
issues who has a dysfunctional family, which he disrupts when he is around.=
 Accustomed to getting his own way, he finds it hard to interact
 with othe=
rs normally because he is too far above them in his own estimation. His int=
elligence and talents prove him right in much of what he does, and people a=
re so overwhelmed with amazement at what he can do that they excuse the bad=
 things he does. They just love the fact that he's clever and like the thou=
ght of being part of his circle so they can share in his cleverness.
Most of this is due to his upbringing - he can be very gentle and kind, an=
d often just gives really cool things away. He's charismatic and very good =
at winning people over by involving them in exciting things he does. This i=
s why a great part of the Noldor follow him to Formenos, Middle-earth. He's=
 a bit of a conspiracy theorist, and tends to share them with close confida=
ntes. They then spread them, and voila! Rebellion. Feanaro's conspiracy the=
ories are often so close to the truth that people can't tell the difference=
 between facts and spin. Feanaro is the king of
 spin.

I'll be lifti=
ng ideas from Thank You For Smoking to demonstrate how he does this. 
His relationship with Nerdanel works because of their mutual admiration. =
Then she tries to turn him away from his rebelliousness until he becomes su=
spicious of her motives and begins to see her as an agent of the Valar. He =
goes from rage to "permanently butthurt" to get her on his side, portraying=
 himself as a victim who needs her help to defend him from the forces array=
ed against him. He dismisses the violent things he does as "only asserting =
his right to what was his," and "only expressing his frustration. " He uses=
 "only" and "but" a lot.

Eventually, I'll tie it in with my story ab=
out the statue, but tell it from his point of view. He feels betrayed...
So that's the idea. Does it work canonically?




      
--0-1572702693-1263388471=:85001--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
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X-Yahoo-Profile: wendwriter

Thanks, Rey.

I've got your beta-work, so I'm going over it now. I'll work =
my theories into later chapters. My big struggle is going to be making this=
 troubled lad socially attractive enough to gain recruits for his causes. A=
t the core of his being is a confused and lonely little boy. I'll have to l=
et that show a few times to bring out Nerdanel's maternal instincts.

It's =
feeling like a small cog caught in a huge machine that drives Feanaro's act=
ions - the trouble is, he doesn't know whose machine it is. By the time he =
realises the truth, it's too late.

One theory I want to float here is, did=
 he make the Palantiri as a means to speak to his mother in Mandos? 

Thoug=
h Morgoth never took part in the making of the Silmarils, might Feanaro hav=
e borrowed ideas from him, to wit, the dispersal of his own being into his =
works? Might Morgoth have had some influence upon Feanaro via one of the Ma=
iar? I can't work Artire into this - he's in hiding at the time, but perhap=
s Mahtan lets something slip in passing one day, and it piques Feanaro's cu=
riosity.



--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, melissa chandr=
a  wrote:
>
> Amusing... in a morbid sort of way. Wrapped =
nicely. Most are canonical, but you inserted several assumptions which stru=
ck true. At least to me. Things were quite detailed, and they actually made=
 sense - a lot. (Heh. And I love how you told the whole theory. :P)
> =C2=
=A0
> - Rey
> 




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Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
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--0-796486148-1263390873=:29954
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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You're welcome... Hope you're pleased with the beta-work. Hee.
=C2=A0
Hmm. =
That could be a case, about the Palantiri, at least subconsciously, but the=
n he must realise that the Palantiri could not penetrate the walls of Mando=
s and be used to talk with a spirit.
=C2=A0
Huh? I thought Melkor was roami=
ng free at that time, disguising as a fair being who wished to help? I am n=
ot an expert in timelines... so another should answer that. LOL But if my g=
uess is correct, then Feanaro could indeed be easily influenced, subtly and=
 slowly...
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
- Rey

--- On Wed, 1/13/10, Wendy  wrote:


From: Wendy 
Subject: [Si=
lmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
To: SilmarillionWritersGuil=
d@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 8:30 AM


=C2=A0 



T=
hanks, Rey.

I've got your beta-work, so I'm going over it now. I'll work m=
y theories into later chapters. My big struggle is going to be making this =
troubled lad socially attractive enough to gain recruits for his causes. At=
 the core of his being is a confused and lonely little boy. I'll have to le=
t that show a few times to bring out Nerdanel's maternal instincts.

It's f=
eeling like a small cog caught in a huge machine that drives Feanaro's acti=
ons - the trouble is, he doesn't know whose machine it is. By the time he r=
ealises the truth, it's too late.

One theory I want to float here is, did =
he make the Palantiri as a means to speak to his mother in Mandos? 

Though=
 Morgoth never took part in the making of the Silmarils, might Feanaro have=
 borrowed ideas from him, to wit, the dispersal of his own being into his w=
orks? Might Morgoth have had some influence upon Feanaro via one of the Mai=
ar? I can't work Artire into this - he's in hiding at the time, but perhaps=
 Mahtan lets something slip in passing one day, and it piques Feanaro's cur=
iosity.

--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, melissa chandra=
  wrote:
>
> Amusing... in a morbid sort of way. Wrapped =
nicely. Most are canonical, but you inserted several assumptions which stru=
ck true. At least to me. Things were quite detailed, and they actually made=
 sense - a lot. (Heh. And I love how you told the whole theory. :P)
> =C3=
=82=C2=A0
> - Rey
> 









      
--0-796486148-1263390873=:29954
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


You're welcome... Hope you're pleased wi=
th the beta-work. Hee.


 


Hmm. That could be a ca=
se, about the Palantiri, at least subconsciously, but then he must realise =
that the Palantiri could not penetrate the walls of Mandos and be used to t=
alk with a spirit.


 


Huh? I thought Melkor was r=
oaming free at that time, disguising as a fair being who wished to help? I =
am not an expert in timelines... so another should answer that. LOL But if =
my guess is correct, then Feanaro could indeed be easily influenced, subtly=
 and slowly...


 


 


- Rey

=
--- On Wed, 1/13/10, Wendy =
 wrote:



From: Wendy 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early L=
ife
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, Jan=
uary 13, 2010, 8:30 AM



  



Thanks, Rey.

I've=
 got your beta-work, so I'm going over it now. I'll work my theories into l=
ater chapters. My big struggle is going to be making this troubled lad soci=
ally attractive enough to gain recruits for his causes. At the core of his =
being is a confused and lonely little boy. I'll have to let that show a few=
 times to bring out Nerdanel's maternal instincts.

It's feeling like=
 a small cog caught in a huge machine that drives Feanaro's actions - the t=
rouble is, he doesn't know whose machine it is. By the time he realises the=
 truth, it's too late.

One theory I want to float here is, did he ma=
ke the Palantiri as a means to speak to his mother in Mandos? 

Thoug=
h Morgoth never took part in the making of the Silmarils, might Feanaro hav=
e borrowed ideas from him, to wit, the dispersal of his own being into his =
works? Might Morgoth have had some influence upon Feanaro via one of the Ma=
iar? I can't work Artire into this -
 he's in hiding at the time, but perha=
ps Mahtan lets something slip in passing one day, and it piques Feanaro's c=
uriosity.

--- In Silma=
rillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, melissa chandra  wrote:
>
> Amusing... in a morbid sort of way. Wrapped=
 nicely. Most are canonical, but you inserted several assumptions which str=
uck true. At least to me. Things were quite detailed, and they actually mad=
e sense - a lot. (Heh. And I love how you told the whole theory. :P)
>=
; =C3=82 
> - Rey
> 




      
--0-796486148-1263390873=:29954--


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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=401339913; y=BE4u7uLDcy-p_xlYYrY-501AvGeRcjOWldF-kv87FCKI026BOg
X-Yahoo-Profile: wendwriter

Precisely. Melkor only wants to help, after all. He means well. ;P

Feanaro=
 might try to use the Palantiri for that purpose, only to find it doesn't w=
ork. 

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, melissa chandra  wrote:
>
> You're welcome... Hope you're pleased with the be=
ta-work. Hee.
> =C2=A0
> Hmm. That could be a case, about the Palantiri, at=
 least subconsciously, but then he must realise that the Palantiri could no=
t penetrate the walls of Mandos and be used to talk with a spirit.
> =C2=A0=

> Huh? I thought Melkor was roaming free at that time, disguising as a fai=
r being who wished to help? I am not an expert in timelines... so another s=
hould answer that. LOL But if my guess is correct, then Feanaro could indee=
d be easily influenced, subtly and slowly...
> =C2=A0
> =C2=A0
> - Rey
> 

=



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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Feanor's Early Life
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I don't believe in "canon" in the way that most people mean it: as a set of
yes-or-no facts that are used to justify stabbity fingers pointing out "I'm
right you're wrong so nyah!" and as a justification for subpar writing.
("But I got the *canon* right!") JRRT's canon is a really complex and fluid
thing for me, and I think that each writer will develop her or his own
canon. I have rambled in the past here about this and so won't try the
patience of my groupmates again, but I wrote an essay on The Heretic
Loremaster last year on defining canon (or not), and it sums up my views
pretty well and also has some interesting discussion in the comments for
anyone who is interested:

http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/2008/12/from-canon-to-au/

Wendy, I don't see anything in your synopsis that defies what we know from
the text. For me (and please note that this is all opinion!), a successful
story about Feanor addresses characterization first and foremost because,
really, what we see of his character in the text and what we see of events
involving him somewhat contradict each other. For example, I have seen
terribly flat depictions of him where his chief traits were unapologetic
obnoxiousness and pride, and the author will reply, "But it's *canon*!" ...
but the "canon," in this case, does absolutely nothing to explain why, if he
was such an unbearable character, 90% of the Noldor followed him, all of his
sons followed him in swearing a heretical oath, and he managed to hold the
unfailing (or nearly unfailing) devotion of "good guy" characters like
Finwe, Miriel, Aule, Nerdanel, and Mahtan. So I think you're definitely on
the right track (for me!) in wanting to look closer at his motives, the
influence of his past, and how he presented himself as such a charismatic
character and influenced his people. :)

If you don't post it to SWG right away, please share a link? :)

Dawn


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6dab11b5bdfc7047d0e0291
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I don't believe in "canon" in the way that most people m=
ean it: as a set of yes-or-no facts that are used to justify stabbity finge=
rs pointing out "I'm right you're wrong so nyah!" and as =
a justification for subpar writing. ("But I got the canon rig=
ht!") JRRT's canon is a really complex and fluid thing for me, and=
 I think that each writer will develop her or his own canon. I have rambled=
 in the past here about this and so won't try the patience of my groupm=
ates again, but I wrote an essay on The Heretic Loremaster=C2=A0last year o=
n defining canon (or not), and it sums up my views pretty well and also has=
 some interesting discussion in the comments for anyone who is interested:<=
/div>


=C2=A0



=C2=A0


Wendy, I don=
't see anything in your synopsis that defies what we know from the text=
. For me (and please note that this is all opinion!), a successful story ab=
out Feanor addresses characterization first and foremost because, really, w=
hat we see of his character in the text and what we see of events involving=
 him somewhat contradict each other. For example, I have seen terribly flat=
 depictions of him where his chief traits were unapologetic obnoxiousness a=
nd pride, and the author will reply, "But it's canon!&quo=
t; ... but the "canon," in this case, does absolutely nothing to =
explain why, if he was such an unbearable character, 90% of the Noldor foll=
owed him, all of his sons followed him in swearing a heretical oath, and he=
 managed to hold the unfailing (or nearly unfailing) devotion of "good=
 guy" characters like Finwe, Miriel, Aule, Nerdanel, and Mahtan. So I =
think you're definitely on the right track (for me!) in wanting to look=
 closer at his motives, the influence of his past, and how he presented him=
self as such a charismatic character and influenced his people. :)


<=
div>=C2=A0


If you don't post it to SWG right away, please sh=
are a link? :)


=C2=A0


Dawn


=C2=A0


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwri=
tersguild.org




--0016e6dab11b5bdfc7047d0e0291--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
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Thanks, Dawn.

I'll post it in a bit - just fine-tuning it and waiting for =
my technical beta to get back to me. I know she's read it... It'll probably=
 go up later tonight.

Thanks for all your support. :D





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Okay, it's up on SWG. 

So... can I give them cutlery? Mahtan isn't credite=
d with inventing anything, so I thought I'd give him that.



From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "surgeon_ruth" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
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You know, it occurs to me that with a lot of the questions you have about c=
haracterization and that sort of thing, it might really help you to join a =
writers' workshop. Although I'm not personally a member, I've heard that th=
e folks at the Garden of Ithilien group are really detail-oriented and happ=
y to offer constructive criticism. I don't have their website information h=
andy, but I'll bet you could find it by Googling!

--- In SilmarillionWrite=
rsGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Wendy"  wrote:
>
> Okay, it's up=
 on SWG. 
> 
> So... can I give them cutlery? Mahtan isn't credited with in=
venting anything, so I thought I'd give him that.
>




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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Feanor's Early Life
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Thanks, Ruth! I'll check them out. :D

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yaho=
ogroups.com, "surgeon_ruth"  wrote:
>
> You know, it occurs =
to me that with a lot of the questions you have about characterization and =
that sort of thing, it might really help you to join a writers' workshop. A=
lthough I'm not personally a member, I've heard that the folks at the Garde=
n of Ithilien group are really detail-oriented and happy to offer construct=
ive criticism. I don't have their website information handy, but I'll bet y=
ou could find it by Googling!
> 
> --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogro=
ups.com, "Wendy"  wrote:
> >
> > Okay, it's up on SWG. 
> > 
=
> > So... can I give them cutlery? Mahtan isn't credited with inventing any=
thing, so I thought I'd give him that.
> >
>




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To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Elvish and all that
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Well I've been asked to beta someone's story, and discovered the use of ran=
dom Elvish (Sindarin) when referring to Elves. Now this is my personal view=
, which, though I personally cling to it like grim death, I wouldn't presum=
e to impose on others:

Words like "Ellon" I'd strip out because it's a Sin=
darin word and doesn't make sense in a text written in English. To me, it s=
eems that if you simply must use "Ellon," your story ought to read like thi=
s:

The young ellon scratched his carach, a frown on his fair face. The loo=
k in his hent portended trouble. All around him, aeglos of assorted sizes l=
ay scattered on the taur floor, the remnants of the great eryn that had sto=
od there before. 

You'd need several pages for your author notes, wouldn't=
 you? Why not just put the whole lot in English unless there's not an Engli=
sh word equivalent to the meaning you're aiming for? E.g. "The tsunami stru=
ck in the early hours of the morning, taking residents of the beachfront re=
sort by surprise."

I can imagine the response: "Why not use 'tidal wave,' =
smart alec?"

Because the nearest thing to a tidal wave we have is the tida=
l bores that go upriver on the Severn and the Thames in England. A storm su=
rge might be exacerbated by a high tide, but really, strictly speaking, we =
haven't got a word in our language that is as accurate for what it is as "t=
sunami." So we thanked the Japanese politely for providing the word, and ha=
ve been using it ever since.

Does that mean you should never use Elvish wo=
rds at all? Well, since "Ada" is so personal to Elves, I'd have no objectio=
n to its use, myself. It's like "Daddy" to us, and it feels wrong to me to =
put "Daddy" into an elfling's mouth. I'd definitely use "elfling," (though =
strictly speaking, it's fanon, isn't it? I haven't seen it in the texts I h=
ave access to), because it means "little Elf." Elf children are different f=
rom human children in so many ways that it makes sense to have a special na=
me for them. But that's just me. I'm aware it makes me sound a bit hypocrit=
ical. 

So... opinions?




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Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elvish and all that
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--0015175cd86e02a9a2047d24201f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi!

Interesting subject. I would see in text emotional expressions in
Quenya/Sindarin, like special names, nick names important for the characters
(the mentioned *ada* example), some greetings etc. But I agree on the *ellon
* case, loved the example you posted XD

Other case are inter-cultural/lingual dialogues when there are Noldor and
Sindar or Edain, some foreign words would appear for various reasons.

Regards,
Sirielle

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Hi!


Interesting subject. I would see in text emotional =
expressions in Quenya/Sindarin, like special names, nick names important fo=
r the characters (the mentioned ada example), some greetings etc. Bu=
t I agree on the ellon case, loved the example you posted XD

<=
div>
Other case are inter-cultural/lingual dialogues when the=
re are Noldor and Sindar or Edain, some foreign words would appear for vari=
ous reasons.=A0

Regards,
Sirielle


--0015175cd86e02a9a2047d24201f--


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From: "Doc Bushwell" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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I'm not a fan of unnecessary Elvish as per your your example, but on the ot=
her hand, I am flexible as a reader and writer with words that might cause =
the canon-orthodox to run screaming. For example, "neurotransmitters" and "=
photosynthesis" are a couple of terms that have appeared in my own humble s=
tylings.  They're Valarin terms, you see. ;^)  However, for the fun of it, =
I have employed a Quenya name for potassium ferrocyanide: malinaqualmesing=
=EB =3D "yellow death-salt."  So random Elvish can be fun, too.

--- In Sil=
marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Wendy"  wrote:
 El=
f children are different from human children in so many ways that it makes =
sense to have a special name for them. But that's just me. I'm aware it mak=
es me sound a bit hypocritical. 
> 
> So... opinions?
>

Er, well, "Elves a=
nd humans" represents a phrase that is a personal bugaboo for me and invari=
ably sets my teeth on edge.  See JRRT's letter to Peter Hastings (Letter 15=
3) in which Tolkien states that Men and Elves are evidently one race (by wh=
ich I assume he means species) biologically speaking.  That is, Elves and M=
en are *human*.  

Granted, if one is to acknowledge the Laws and Customs o=
f the Eldar in its strictest sense, there are differences between elven-chi=
ldren and their mortal kindred, but also consider this excerpt from HoMe X:=


"The  Eldar grew in bodily form slower than Men, but in mind more  swiftl=
y.  They learned to speak before they were one year old; and  in  the same =
time they learned to walk and to dance, for their  wills  came  soon  to  t=
he  mastery  of their  bodies. Nonetheless there  was  less  difference bet=
ween the two Kindreds, Elves and Men, in early   youth; and a man who watch=
ed elf-children at play might well have  believed that they were the childr=
en of Men, of some fair and happy  people."

That last sentence indicates t=
he youngsters of the two kindred are not grossly different.  So  just plain=
 "children" when writing of a homogeneous population of Firstborn (that is,=
 no mortals around) seems accurate enough to me.





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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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Hi Sirielle,

we're singing from the same sheet! :D

[Q]Other case are inte=
r-cultural/lingual dialogues when there are Noldor and Sindar or Edain, som=
e foreign words would appear for various reasons.[/Q]

That's come up in th=
e text, when switching between languages, e.g. Frodo addresses someone in "=
High Elven" at one point, for effect. Legolas, who uses "the Common Tongue"=
 throughout the text, reverts to Sindarin when distressed, saying "Yrch!" i=
nstead of "Orcs!"

In the movies, Gimli objects when Aragorn and Haldir spe=
ak Sindarin because he doesn't know the language himself. The text explains=
 that the Elves don't all know the Common Tongue, so they're speaking in a =
language they all understand. 

The need to speak privately where others ca=
n hear you necessitates the use of another language, so it would make sense=
 to use words and phrases for the message you wish to keep between yourself=
 and your intended recipient.

Basically, you're saying that people sometim=
es switch from one language to another, so the use of other languages in st=
ories where that occurs would be perfectly legitimate in such cases. I agre=
e wholeheartedly!



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From: "Wendy" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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[Q]I am flexible as a reader and writer with words that might cause the can=
on-orthodox to run screaming. For example, "neurotransmitters" and "photosy=
nthesis" are a couple of terms that have appeared in my own humble stylings=
.  They're Valarin terms, you see. ;^)  However, for the fun of it, I have =
employed a Quenya name for potassium ferrocyanide: malinaqualmesing=EB =3D =
"yellow death-salt."  So random Elvish can be fun, too.[/Q]

Brilliant!! Yo=
u said they are Valarin, so who am I to argue? That's the kind of use I'm t=
alking about - there ain't a suitable word, so you lifted one from another =
language. It fits.

[Q]That last sentence indicates the youngsters of the t=
wo kindred are not grossly different.  So  just plain "children" when writi=
ng of a homogeneous population of Firstborn (that is, no mortals around) se=
ems accurate enough to me.[/Q]

So I take it that the use of "Elfling" is w=
rong, then? If I can't justify it, I can't use it. 

Me PWNed! 



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From: CGL 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elvish and all that
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--- On Thu, 14/1/10, Wendy  wrote:
> Now this =
is my personal
> view, which, though I personally cling to it like grim
> d=
eath, I wouldn't presume to impose on others:

I both agree and disagree wi=
th what you've posted here.  First the agreement.

> Words like "Ellon" I'd=
 strip out because it's a Sindarin
> word and doesn't make sense in a text =
written in English. 

Yes.  This is exactly what I've thought for years, an=
d I've told others the same when they've asked for my opinion on in-story l=
anguage usage.  As you've pointed out, using 'ellon' makes as much sense an=
d translating any other random noun into Sindarin.  Especially since Tolkie=
n explicitly uses 'man' and 'woman' when speaking of male and female Elves =
in the Fall of Gondolin.

However, I will concede that it could at times be=
 considered appropriate to use ellon/elleth in a story that has both Elvish=
 and Mannish characters, for purposes of differentiation.

> Why not just p=
ut the whole lot in English unless
> there's not an English word equivalent=
 to the meaning you're
> aiming for? 

Right.  And there are a few Elvish w=
ords for which there is no viable English alternative, such as 'Silmaril', =
'mallorn', 'balrog', or 'Ainu'.

> Well, since "Ada" is so personal to Elve=
s, I'd have no
> objection to its use, myself. It's like "Daddy" to us, and=

> it feels wrong to me to put "Daddy" into an elfling's mouth.

Here's whe=
re I start to both agree and disagree.  I will agree that, yes, in dialogue=
 (or even close POV) an Elven child could easily refer to his father and mo=
ther as Ada and Nana.  But I don't think this is because the Elvish equival=
ents to Mummy and Daddy should be used for the sake of using them, but beca=
use, as far as the child is concerned, his parents' names are Ada and Nana.=
  In this case, the words are taking the place of proper names.

I would ob=
ject, though, to somebody saying 'my Ada', since this is really no differen=
t from 'ellon' above.  The word in this case has ceased to be a name and be=
come a noun once again. 

> I'd definitely use "elfling," (though strictly =
speaking,
> it's fanon, isn't it? I haven't seen it in the texts I have
> a=
ccess to), because it means "little Elf." Elf children are
> different from=
 human children in so many ways that it makes
> sense to have a special nam=
e for them.

'Elfling' is indeed fanon.  And I also have to disagree with i=
ts use.  If we've agreed that an Elf does not refer to himself as an ellon =
(which literally means 'Elf-man'), why would he refer to his child as an El=
fling?  To this Elf, who is probably not thinking about differences between=
 Elven and Mannish children, his child is just a child.  And in the Fall of=
 Gondolin, the same text where you'll find Elves called 'men' and 'women, y=
ou'll also see 'children'.

A case in which I would not object to Elfling i=
s if the word were used by non-Elves speaking about Elven children.  But El=
ves in their everyday lives among themselves will probably not consciously =
and continuously think of themselves as Elves, and therefore would not thin=
k of their children as Elflings.

CGL


      


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--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "Wendy"  wrote:
>

> 
> [Q]That last sentence indicates the youngsters of the two =
kindred are not grossly different.  So  just plain "children" when writing =
of a homogeneous population of Firstborn (that is, no mortals around) seems=
 accurate enough to me.[/Q]
> 
> So I take it that the use of "Elfling" is =
wrong, then? If I can't justify it, I can't use it. 

I would not go so far=
 as to say it is *wrong*.  I have encountered the term used in the hands of=
 a skilled writer, in which case "elfling" works quite nicely.  But in othe=
r hands, to *my* ears, it can sound sort of precious.  I'm simply more incl=
ined to use constructs like elf-man, elf-woman (which JRRT used as well) an=
d elf-child. See also CGL's comments which made their way to the list as I =
was typing this.


> 
> Me PWNed!
>

What is this strange tongue in which y=
ou speak? 



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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elvish and all that
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I agree on the issue of *elleth/ellon* and for the same reason. I do not
represent a Spanish-speaking female character (for example) in a story as a
*mujer* unless I have a stylistic reason for doing so. At the same time,
this is very much my personal preference. Those who personally prefer to use
*elleth/ellon* could just as easily point to my writing and claim that I use
too many adjectives and don't do "more with less" and write too much in the
present tense ... all of which are true but hearken more to what's the vogue
in modern fiction-writing than what's actually right or wrong. I've had
well-meaning people try to argue me out of my peculiarities (one person who
tried to convince me into changing my 350,000-word novel *Another Man's Cage
* from present to past tense--I haven't the patience, even if I thought it
was the correct decision!) with the result that ... I keep doing as I have
done since I started writing fiction. Preference is preference. As such, I
tend not to bring up the *elleth/ellon* issue to people for whom I beta-read
but treat is as a stylistic choice that's legitimized by popular usage but
which I do not personally care for.

I suspect the popularity of *elleth/ellon* comes back to the fact that
people don't want to use the words *woman* or *man* when referring to Elves.
Darth Fingon has already deconstructed this better than I could (
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/linguistic_foolery/elvish_fanons.php),
so I won't say much more on why that makes no sense based on what we see in
the texts. A lot of this, too, I think is Tolkien's own fault for choosing
to call mortal humans generically "Men," a decision that I think was poor
for a number of reasons (not least of all that it is sexist). But that
creates the mistaken impression that the word *men* (and, and by
association, *women*) belongs to the mortals alone, not the Elves. At least,
that is my (untested) theory.

I don't use *elfling* either. It is indeed a fanon, but that is not why.
There is nothing inherently wrong with fanon; I enjoy and indulge in my fair
share of it. This one I don't care for simply because I don't personally see
a compelling reason not to simply call Elven children ... children. Yes,
they are different from mortal children in some ways, but so are mortal men
different from Elven men and mortal women different than Elven women. The
whole immortality thing is perhaps the most glaring difference. ;) And
especially when Elves are only in the company of other Elves (as in
Valinor), then I see no reason why they would have to distinguish that their
children are *elf*lings--of course they are! All of the children are! :)
Again, though, it is a preference, and one that people who simply like that
word will probably never be argued out of, nor would I presume it my place
to do so. It's just not a preference I particularly care for.

Dawn


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

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I agree on the issue of elleth/ellon and for the same reason.=
 I do not represent a Spanish-speaking female character (for example) in a =
story as a mujer unless I have a stylistic reason for doing so. At=
 the same time, this is very much my personal preference. Those who persona=
lly prefer to use elleth/ellon could just as easily point to my wr=
iting and claim that I use too many adjectives and don't do "more =
with less" and write too much in the present tense ... all of which ar=
e true but hearken more to what's the vogue in modern fiction-writing t=
han what's actually right or wrong. I've had well-meaning people tr=
y to argue me out of my peculiarities (one person who tried to convince me =
into changing my 350,000-word novel Another Man's Cage from pr=
esent to past tense--I haven't the patience, even if I thought it was t=
he correct decision!) with the result that ... I keep doing as I have done =
since I started writing fiction. Preference is preference. As such, I tend =
not to bring up the elleth/ellon issue to people for whom I beta-r=
ead but treat is as a stylistic choice that's legitimized by popular us=
age but which I do not personally care for.



=C2=A0


I=
 suspect the popularity of elleth/ellon comes back to the fact tha=
t people don't want to use the words woman or man whe=
n referring to Elves. Darth Fingon has already deconstructed this better th=
an I could (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org=
/reference/linguistic_foolery/elvish_fanons.php), so I won't say mu=
ch more on why that makes no sense based on what we see in the texts. A lot=
 of this, too, I think is Tolkien's own fault for choosing to call mort=
al humans generically "Men," a decision that I think was poor for=
 a number of reasons (not least of all that it is sexist). But that creates=
 the mistaken impression that the word men (and, and by associatio=
n, women) belongs to the mortals alone, not the Elves. At least, t=
hat is my (untested) theory.



=C2=A0


I don't use =
elfling either. It is indeed a fanon, but that is not why. There i=
s nothing inherently wrong with fanon; I enjoy and indulge in my fair share=
 of it. This one I don't care for simply because I don't personally=
 see a compelling reason not to simply call Elven children ... children. Ye=
s, they are different from mortal children in some ways, but so are mortal =
men different from Elven men and mortal women different than Elven women. T=
he whole immortality thing is perhaps the most glaring difference. ;) And e=
specially when Elves are only in the company of other Elves (as in Valinor)=
, then I see no reason why they would have to distinguish that their childr=
en are elflings--of course they are! All of the children are! :) A=
gain, though, it is a preference, and one that people who simply like that =
word will probably never be argued out of, nor would I presume it my place =
to do so. It's just not a preference I particularly care for.


=C2=A0

     

    
    








  









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	Earthquake Recovery
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I have an announcement about the auction up front and center on the
website--would those of you with auctions going like me to list your
auctions on the website? Please, at least, share on the list when you put an
auction up so that list members know where to look for you! :)

I will be offering printed and e-book copies of my fanfic novels. I do not
have an auction set up on Help Haiti yet because I am not sure if I am
allowed to ask bidders to cover printing costs there, and unfortunately, I
am not in a financial position to pay to have books printed at this time.
(Even if I was, I probably would have donated that money directly already!
:) If I cannot list an auction through Help Haiti, then I will do something
similar through my private LJ ... I will post details as soon as I have
them! :)

So far, I am figuring on offering the following:

Another Man's Cage (three books)
By the Light of Roses
The Work of Small Hands

Printing costs will be roughly 7 USD per book. I do mean *roughly*; I
estimated for the first book of AMC, but it is not fully formatted yet. If
anything, I am hoping that the cost is less since "formatting" primarily
involves removing extra line breaks necessary for web formatting and will
make the printed book shorter. BtLoR and tWoSH should both be shorter as
well.

I will ask for a minimum $5 donation per book to a charity helping in Haiti.
For e-books, just the donation will suffice.

Finally, as many of you know, I am a full-time grad student as well as
working full time. None of my stories are currently formatted for printing.
Therefore, I may not be able to make the deadlines on Help Haiti and want to
be up-front about that. But I am working diligently between finishing my
first semester to get AMC formatted and ready for printing. So I will do my
best. :)

Dawn

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Elleth wrote:

>
>
> How about compiling a quick link list for our own auctions and other
> sources of all things Tolkien in the help_haiti comm?
>


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6dab150920ef9047d48be5f
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have an announcement about the auction up front and center on the website=
--would those of you with auctions going like me to list your auctions on t=
he website? Please, at least, share on the list when you put an auction up =
so that list members know where to look for you! :)


I will be offer=
ing printed and e-book copies of my fanfic novels. I do not have an auction=
 set up on Help Haiti yet because I am not sure if I am allowed to ask bidd=
ers to cover printing costs there, and unfortunately, I am not in a financi=
al position to pay to have books printed at this time. (Even if I was, I pr=
obably would have donated that money directly already! :) If I cannot list =
an auction through Help Haiti, then I will do something similar through my =
private LJ ... I will post details as soon as I have them! :)


So fa=
r, I am figuring on offering the following:

Another Man's Cage (=
three books)
By the Light of Roses
The Work of Small Hands

Pri=
nting costs will be roughly 7 USD per book. I do mean roughly; I est=
imated for the first book of AMC, but it is not fully formatted yet. If any=
thing, I am hoping that the cost is less since "formatting" prima=
rily involves removing extra line breaks necessary for web formatting and w=
ill make the printed book shorter. BtLoR and tWoSH should both be shorter a=
s well.


I will ask for a minimum $5 donation per book to a charity =
helping in Haiti. For e-books, just the donation will suffice.

Final=
ly, as many of you know, I am a full-time grad student as well as working f=
ull time. None of my stories are currently formatted for printing. Therefor=
e, I may not be able to make the deadlines on Help Haiti and want to be up-=
front about that. But I am working diligently between finishing my first se=
mester to get AMC formatted and ready for printing. So I will do my best. :=
)


Dawn

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:=
32 AM, Elleth <nerdanel.istarnie@googlemail.com> wrote:

















=C2=A0



=

  



    

      
      
      
How about compiling a quick lin=
k list for our own auctions and other sources of all things Tolkien in the =
help_haiti comm?


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund

http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmari=
llionwritersguild.org


--0016e6dab150920ef9047d48be5f--


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References: <748319.24775.qm@web112420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>  <4B506B03.8050501@gmail.com>     
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 06:18:21 -0800 (PST)
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1116464346-1263651501=:57839"
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0
From: nav Joy 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti  Earthquake Recovery
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I have an auction up - http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/3155.htm=
l?thread=3D2045523#t2045523 - I think bidding's started. I am rather drawn =
deep into the academic vortex and related things right now, but I'll do wha=
t I can. 

Jdav



________________________________
From: Dawn Felagund 
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sa=
t, January 16, 2010 7:44:55 PM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fand=
om Community to Help Haiti  Earthquake Recovery

  
I have an announcement =
about the auction up front and center on the website--would those of you wi=
th auctions going like me to list your auctions on the website? Please, at =
least, share on the list when you put an auction up so that list members kn=
ow where to look for you! :)

I will be offering printed and e-book copies =
of my fanfic novels. I do not have an auction set up on Help Haiti yet beca=
use I am not sure if I am allowed to ask bidders to cover printing costs th=
ere, and unfortunately, I am not in a financial position to pay to have boo=
ks printed at this time. (Even if I was, I probably would have donated that=
 money directly already! :) If I cannot list an auction through Help Haiti,=
 then I will do something similar through my private LJ ... I will post det=
ails as soon as I have them! :)

So far, I am figuring on offering the foll=
owing:

Another Man's Cage (three books)
By the Light of Roses
The Work of =
Small Hands

Printing costs will be roughly 7 USD per book. I do mean rough=
ly; I estimated for the first book of AMC, but it is not fully formatted ye=
t. If anything, I am hoping that the cost is less since "formatting" primar=
ily involves removing extra line breaks necessary for web formatting and wi=
ll make the printed book shorter. BtLoR and tWoSH should both be shorter as=
 well.

I will ask for a minimum $5 donation per book to a charity helping =
in Haiti. For e-books, just the donation will suffice.

Finally, as many of=
 you know, I am a full-time grad student as well as working full time. None=
 of my stories are currently formatted for printing. Therefore, I may not b=
e able to make the deadlines on Help Haiti and want to be up-front about th=
at. But I am working diligently between finishing my first semester to get =
AMC formatted and ready for printing. So I will do my best. :)

Dawn


On S=
at, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Elleth  wr=
ote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  >
>
>>
> 
>>      
> 
>How about compi=
ling a quick link list for our own auctions and other sources of all things=
 Tolkien in the help_haiti comm?
>

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidha=
vens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

 


 =
     
--0-1116464346-1263651501=:57839
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I have an auction up - http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/3155.html?=
thread=3D2045523#t2045523 - I think bidding's started. I am rather draw=
n deep into the academic vortex and related things right now, but I'll do w=
hat I can. 

Jdav

From: Dawn Felagund 
To: SilmarillionWritersGuil=
d@yahoogroups.com
Sent:=
 Sat, January 16, 2010 7:44:55 PM
=
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help=
 Haiti  Earthquake Recovery

















 



    

      
      
    =
  
I have an announcement about the auction up front and center on the we=
bsite--would those of you with auctions going like me to list your auctions=
 on the website? Please, at least, share on the list when you put an auctio=
n up so that list members know where to look for you! :)


I will be =
offering printed and e-book copies of my fanfic novels. I do not have an au=
ction set up on Help Haiti yet because I am not sure if I am allowed to ask=
 bidders to cover printing costs there, and unfortunately, I am not in a fi=
nancial position to pay to have books printed at this time. (Even if I was,=
 I probably would have donated that money directly already! :) If I cannot =
list an auction through Help Haiti, then I will do something similar throug=
h my private LJ ... I will post details as soon as I have them! :)


=
So far, I am figuring on offering the following:

Another Man's Cage =
(three books)
By the Light of Roses
The Work of Small Hands

Pr=
inting costs will be roughly 7 USD per book. I do mean roughly; I es=
timated for the first book of AMC, but it is not fully formatted yet. If an=
ything, I am hoping that the cost is less since "formatting" primarily invo=
lves removing extra line breaks necessary for web formatting and will make =
the printed book shorter. BtLoR and tWoSH should both be shorter as well.

I will ask for a minimum $5 donation per book to a charity helping i=
n Haiti. For e-books, just the donation will suffice.

Finally, as ma=
ny of you know, I am a full-time grad student as well as working full time.=
 None of my stories are currently formatted for printing. Therefore, I may =
not be able to make the deadlines on Help Haiti and want to be up-front abo=
ut that. But I am working diligently between finishing my first semester to=
 get AMC formatted and ready for printing. So I will do my best. :)

Dawn

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:32 AM=
, Elleth <nerdanel.istarnie@ googlemail. com> wrote=
:

















 




  



    

      
      
    =
  
How about compiling a quick link list for our own auctions and other s=
ources of all things Tolkien in the help_haiti comm?


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Fela=
gund

http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
ht=
tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



    

     



=














      
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References: <748319.24775.qm@web112420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	 <4B506B03.8050501@gmail.com>
	 
	 
	 
	 <165204.57839.qm@web44912.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:52:14 -0500
Message-ID: 
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d77e3e05f784047d4944a6
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0
From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti 
	Earthquake Recovery
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hulc-Bc8LrBU3D3-R_vTSxLB2pQCWz3u96toclyxaCzroW8tbVLD
X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund


--0016e6d77e3e05f784047d4944a6
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I just heard back from the Help Haiti moderator, and I have an auction up:

http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/2706.html?thread=3234194#t3234194

I am offering printed or e-book copies of three of my novels/novellas: *Another
Man's Cage* (three books), *By the Light of Roses,* and *The Work of Small
Hands.*

Donation is a minimum of 5 USD per book.

Printed books will have additional production costs. Currently, I do not
think that this should exceed 7 USD per book but cannot make any guarantees
at this point as I have not finished formatting for printing yet.

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d77e3e05f784047d4944a6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I just heard back from the Help Haiti moderator, and I have an auction up:<=
br>
http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/2706.ht=
ml?thread=3D3234194#t3234194


I am offering printed or e-book co=
pies of three of my novels/novellas: Another Man's Cage (three b=
ooks), By the Light of Roses, and The Work of Small Hands.
Donation is a minimum of 5 USD per book.


Printed books will ha=
ve additional production costs. Currently, I do not think that this should =
exceed 7 USD per book but cannot make any guarantees at this point as I hav=
e not finished formatting for printing yet.


Dawn
<=
br>-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters=
guild.org



--0016e6d77e3e05f784047d4944a6--


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	 <4B506B03.8050501@gmail.com>
	 
	 
	 
	 <165204.57839.qm@web44912.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	 
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:54:10 -0500
Message-ID: 
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d64514fa5402047d494aa2
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0
From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti 
	Earthquake Recovery
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=6lK1-9zT7JqlTJGld9WxUratQ_7YFeby-QcOf2WBffsjbsp9-8P9
X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund


--0016e6d64514fa5402047d494aa2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I have added a list of auctions posted by SWG members to the website. You
can see the list, with links to each person's auction, on the sidebar of
each page, underneath the navigation menu.

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index.php

If you know of any other members of the Tolkien community (even if they are
not SWG members) who have auctions running, please post to this thread or
email me off-list so that I may add them to the list.

Thank you to all who are participating. :)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d64514fa5402047d494aa2
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have added a list of auctions posted by SWG members to the website. You c=
an see the list, with links to each person's auction, on the sidebar of=
 each page, underneath the navigation menu.

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o=
rg/index.php


If you know of any other members of the Tolkien co=
mmunity (even if they are not SWG members) who have auctions running, pleas=
e post to this thread or email me off-list so that I may add them to the li=
st.

Thank you to all who are participating. :)


Dawn

-=
- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil=
d.org



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From: Elleth 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti 
	Earthquake Recovery
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X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth


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Thanks so much for spreading the word -- I don't have time to look through
=
all the auction threads and find more LotR/Silm related things, but
fortuna=
tely there are some great people who do, and there is a masterlist
for fic =
by fandoms (as I'm sure you saw), with quite an offer of
LotR-related writi=
ngs. Dawn, you could include these in your lists, perhaps?

LotR/Silm relat=
ed fics at
http://eponymous-rose.livejournal.com/313045.html and
http://the=
biggest-lie.livejournal.com/126567.html - just scroll down to the
letter L.=


Fanat, graphics, audio (for these three there are enough people who would=
 do
any fandom), and misc things haven't been sorted, I think, but there ar=
e
some items that I found, anyway -- especially in the mixed section.

http=
://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/2138.html?thread=3D762458#t762458
h=
ttp://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/2138.html?thread=3D2154074#t2154=
074
http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/2138.html?thread=3D1781338#=
t1781338

Last, I forgot one auction item of my own, photomanip printouts:
=
http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/822.html?thread=3D745014#t74501=
4

And now back to the linguistics project. >.<

Elleth

2010/1/16 Dawn Fel=
agund 

>
>
> I have added a list of auctions poste=
d by SWG members to the website. You
> can see the list, with links to each=
 person's auction, on the sidebar of
> each page, underneath the navigation=
 menu.
>
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index.php
>
> If you kno=
w of any other members of the Tolkien community (even if they are
> not SWG=
 members) who have auctions running, please post to this thread or
> email =
me off-list so that I may add them to the list.
>
> Thank you to all who ar=
e participating. :)
>
>
> Dawn
>
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://them=
idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
=
>  
>

--0016e6d64559375793047d4a6060
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks so much for spreading the word -- I don't have time to look
thro=
ugh all the auction threads and find more LotR/Silm related things,
but for=
tunately there are some great people who do, and there is a
masterlist for =
fic by fandoms (as I'm sure you saw), with quite an
offer of LotR-relat=
ed writings. Dawn, you could include these in your lists, perhaps?


=

LotR/Silm related fics at

http://eponymous-rose.livejournal.com/3=
13045.html and

http://thebiggest-lie.livejournal.com/126567.ht=
ml - just scroll down to
the letter L.



Fanat, graphics,
audio =
(for these three there are enough people who would do any fandom), and misc=
 things haven't been sorted, I think, but there are some
items that I f=
ound, anyway -- especially in the mixed section. 



http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/2138.html?thre=
ad=3D762458#t762458

http://commu=
nity.livejournal.com/help_haiti/2138.html?thread=3D2154074#t2154074
=

http://community.livejournal.com/help_h=
aiti/2138.html?thread=3D1781338#t1781338



Last, I forgot one au=
ction item of my own, photomanip printouts: 

http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/822.html?thread=3D745014#=
t745014

And now back to the linguistics project. >.<

<=
br>Elleth


2010/1/16 Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.com>


















=A0




  



    

      
   =
   
      
I have added a list of auctions posted by SWG members to the w=
ebsite. You can see the list, with links to each person's auction, on t=
he sidebar of each page, underneath the navigation menu.

http:/=
/www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index.php




If you know of an=
y other members of the Tolkien community (even if they are not SWG members)=
 who have auctions running, please post to this thread or email me off-list=
 so that I may add them to the list.

Thank you to all who are partic=
ipating. :)




    

     

    
    








  










--0016e6d64559375793047d4a6060--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 05:01:00 -0000
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: 
User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82
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X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster
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X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0
From: "roisin_elendiel" 
Subject: Re: Fandom Community to Help Haiti Earthquake Recovery
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=atdgrHaCqjh5GDCW_kRJ4KVUBMdFIR3u_Nf73VfBdpLmmMJ2HN026SkmNb-DQwwVqOnS7A
X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel

I'm auctioning a version of Arwen's Blood red/Dying gown from ROTK that I m=
ade. While it's not one of the exact replicas I've made before (because tha=
t would be more money than I would expect anyone to be able to give.) it's =
pretty close and will be easily recognized as that specific gown. It's all =
done with professional seam finishes and is a high quality garment. If anyo=
ne's interested, feel free to email me or message me here. The starting bid=
 is very reasonable and it would be great if it could not only raise much n=
eeded funds for Haiti, but also go to a home where someone will wear and en=
joy it.

Roisin

--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Fela=
gund  wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
> 
> A multi-fandom LJ communit=
y has been set up to auction off fannish goods and
> services in exchange f=
or a donation to an organization currently aiding with
> disaster relief ef=
forts in Haiti. I just did a quick scroll through the
> community and they =
are accepting for auction everything from stories to
> artwork to beta-read=
ing services. Since we have many talented people here, I
> wanted to post a=
 link in case anyone was interested in participating:
> 
> http://community=
.livejournal.com/help_haiti/
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dawn
> 
> -- 
> ~oOo~
=
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.=
silmarillionwritersguild.org
>




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	 <4B506B03.8050501@gmail.com>
	 
	 
	 
	 <165204.57839.qm@web44912.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	 
	 
	 
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 08:54:58 -0500
Message-ID: 
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7ec2017ad3b047d5c950d
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0
From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti 
	Earthquake Recovery
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=C96ANiG8p73enUSzy4cbhTPoZGlstxFqs9sM0bzcv2ESQIWg022q
X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund


--0016e6d7ec2017ad3b047d5c950d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Thank you, Elleth! The list has gotten enormous since I was last online this
time yesterday, so I will be migrating it from the sidebar to the homepage.
Thank you to all who are contributing.

A direct link to the auction for Roisin's gown, for anyone who is interested
(and if I was not broke at the moment, man would I be! :)

http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/822.html?view=3788598#t3788598

Thanks again, all!

Dawn


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d7ec2017ad3b047d5c950d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you, Elleth! The list has gotten enormous since I was last online thi=
s time yesterday, so I will be migrating it from the sidebar to the homepag=
e. Thank you to all who are contributing.

A direct link to the aucti=
on for Roisin's gown, for anyone who is interested (and if I was not br=
oke at the moment, man would I be! :)


http://communit=
y.livejournal.com/help_haiti/822.html?view=3D3788598#t3788598

Th=
anks again, all!

Dawn



-- 
~oOo~
Dawn=
 Felagund
http:/=
/themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



--0016e6d7ec2017ad3b047d5c950d--


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MIME-Version: 1.0
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From: melissa chandra 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti  Earthquake Recovery
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=ZsBv2wH3sucyXRSMUWvJWeV1QtMlAUyeyYqNjVG6aRpanNaiW44
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--0-917350313-1263745279=:21975
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I contributed to the fundraising... finally. :) Dawn helped posting my offe=
rings to LJ, so thank you very much, Dawn!
=C2=A0
Here are the links:=C2=A0=

http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/2138.html?thread=3D4057946#t40=
57946
(beta-reading service)
Or
http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti=
/6394.html?thread=3D4056058#t4056058
(fan fictions)
=C2=A0
The details are:=

=C2=A0
* Beta-reading service for the fandoms below. No specific preferenc=
e. Good in: characterization, consistency, dialogues, atmosphere (including=
 images and imagery), grammar, vocabulary and spelling (to a certain point)=
. Genre avoided: femme/slash. Warning avoided: graphic sex.
* One-shots or =
short chaptered stories about any characters/theme/idea in The Silmarillion=
, The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings (specialising in the Ainur). Timeline=
 excepted: Second Age in N=C3=BAmenor. Genres excepted: mystery/suspense, r=
omance, femme/slash.
* One-shots or short chaptered stories about any chara=
cters/theme/idea in the Harry Potter Series. Genres excepted: mystery/suspe=
nse, romance, femme/slash.
* One-shots or short chaptered stories on a cros=
sover between any (or all) the fandoms listed below. Genres excepted: myste=
ry/suspense, romance, femme/slash.
=C2=A0
* Assistance in building up origi=
nal characters or canon characters which receive minor (if even) regard in =
the original works. Fandoms: all that are listed below. Speciality: details=
 and believability.
=C2=A0
Fandoms:
TheSilmarillion
The Hobbit
The Lord of =
the Rings
The Harry Potter Series
The Chronicles of Narnia
=C2=A0
Starting =
bid: US$ 5
=C2=A0
=C2=A0


--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Dawn Felagund  wrote:


From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: =
Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti Earthquake Re=
covery
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, January 1=
7, 2010, 8:54 AM


=C2=A0 



Thank you, Elleth! The list has gotten enormo=
us since I was last online this time yesterday, so I will be migrating it f=
rom the sidebar to the homepage. Thank you to all who are contributing.

A =
direct link to the auction for Roisin's gown, for anyone who is interested =
(and if I was not broke at the moment, man would I be! :)

http://community=
. livejournal. com/help_ haiti/822. html?view=3D 3788598#t3788598

Thanks a=
gain, all!

Dawn


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic=
_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org








      
--0-917350313-1263745279=:21975
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I contributed to the fundraising... fina=
lly. :) Dawn helped posting my offerings to LJ, so thank you very much, Daw=
n!


 


Here are the links: 


(beta-reading service)

Or

=
http://community.livejournal.com/help_haiti/6394.html?thread=3D4056058#t405=
6058

(fan fictions)

 

The details are:


 

* Beta-reading servi=
ce for the fandoms below. No specific preference. Good in: characterization=
, consistency, dialogues, atmosphere (including images and imagery), gramma=
r, vocabulary and spelling (to a certain point). Genre avoided: femme/slash=
. Warning avoided: graphic sex.

* One-shots or=
 short chaptered stories about any characters/theme/idea in The Silmarillio=
n, The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings (specialising in the Ainur). Timelin=
e excepted: Second Age in N=C3=BAmenor. Genres excepted: mystery/suspense, =
romance, femme/slash.

* One-shots or short cha=
ptered stories about any characters/theme/idea in the Harry Potter Series. =
Genres excepted: mystery/suspense, romance, femme/slash.

 

* Assistance in building up original characters or canon character=
s which receive minor (if even) regard in the original works. Fandoms: all =
that are listed below. Speciality: details and believability.
=

 

Fandoms:

TheSilmarillion

=
The Hobbit

=
The Lord of the Rings
=

The Harry Potter Series

The Ch=
ronicles of Narnia

 

Starting bid: US$ 5

&=
nbsp;

 


--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Dawn Felagund  wrote:



From: Dawn Felagu=
nd 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild=
] Fandom Community to Help Haiti Earthquake Recovery
To: SilmarillionWri=
tersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 8:54 AM


  



Thank you, Elleth! The list has gotten enormous since =
I was last online this time yesterday, so I will be migrating it from the s=
idebar to the homepage. Thank you to all who are contributing.

A dir=
ect link to the auction for Roisin's gown, for anyone who is interested (an=
d if I was not broke at the moment, man would I be! :)

http://community. livejournal. com/help_ ha=
iti/822. html?view=3D 3788598#t3788598

Thanks again, all!
Dawn


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
h=
ttp://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.sil=
maril lionwritersguild .org





      
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Does anyone know *when* Feanor and Morgoth met? I need some details. Obscur=
e bits of information will give me more options. 





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From: melissa chandra 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elvish and all that
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According to the Silmarillion, Morgoth when released went among the Elves i=
n a fair raiment and whispered words of lies and discontent among them... b=
ut it never specifies about his meeting with anyone, including Feanor. Well=
, it is the only source I have, so I cannot help more in that area. :)
=C2=
=A0
- Rey

PS: Here are some quotations from the chapter Feanor and the Unc=
haining of Melkor in Silm.
=C2=A0
"
Now even while F=C3=ABanor and the craf=
tsmen of the Noldor worked with delight, foreseeing no end to their labours=
, and while the sons of Indis grew to their full stature, the Noontide of V=
alinor was drawing to its close. For it came to pass that Melkor, as the Va=
lar had decreed, completed the term of his bondage, dwelling for three ages=
 in the duress of Mandos, alone. At length, as Manw=C3=AB had promised, he =
was brought again before the thrones of the Valar. Then he looked upon thei=
r glory and their bliss, and envy was in his heart; he looked upon the Chil=
dren of Il=C3=BAvatar that sat at the feet of the Mighty, and hatred filled=
 him; he looked upon the wealth of bright gems, and he lusted for them; but=
 he hid his thoughts, and postponed his vengeance."
=C2=A0
"
Now in his hea=
rt Melkor most hated the Eldar, both because they were fair and joyful and =
because in them he saw the reason for the arising of the Valar, and his own=
 downfall. Therefore all the more did he feign love for them and seek their=
 friendship, and he offered them the service of his lore and labour in any =
great deed that they would do. The Vanyar indeed held him in suspicion, for=
 they dwelt in the light of the Trees and were content; and to the Teleri h=
e gave small heed, thinking them of little worth, tools too weak for his de=
signs. But the Noldor took delight in the hidden knowledge that he could re=
veal to them; and some hearkened to words that it would have been better fo=
r them never to have heard. Melkor indeed declared afterwards that F=C3=ABa=
nor had learned much art from him in secret, and had been instructed by him=
 in the greatest of all his works; but he lied in his lust and his envy, fo=
r none of the Eldali=C3=AB ever hated Melkor more than F=C3=ABanor
 son of =
Finw=C3=AB, who first named him Morgoth; and snared though he was in the we=
bs of Melkor's malice against the Valar he held no converse with him in per=
son and took no counsel from him. For F=C3=ABanor was driven by the fire of=
 his own heart only, working ever swiftly and alone; and he asked the aid a=
nd sought the counsel of none that dwelt in Aman, great or small, save only=
 and for a little while of Nerdanel the wise, his wife."
=C2=A0
=C2=A0

---=
 On Sun, 1/17/10, Wendy  wrote:


From: Wendy <=
wendwriter1@googlemail.com>
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elvish =
and all that
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, Jan=
uary 17, 2010, 11:46 AM


=C2=A0 



Does anyone know *when* Feanor and Mor=
goth met? I need some details. Obscure bits of information will give me mor=
e options. 









      
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


According to the Silmarillion, Morgoth w=
hen released went among the Elves in a fair raiment and whispered words of =
lies and discontent among them... but it never specifies about his meeting =
with anyone, including Feanor. Well, it is the only source I have, so I can=
not help more in that area. :)


 


- Rey
=


PS: Here are some quotations from the chapter Feanor and the Unchaini=
ng of Melkor in Silm.


 


"


=
Now even while F=C3=ABanor an=
d the craftsmen of the Noldor worked with delight, foreseeing no end to the=
ir labours, and while the sons of Indis grew to their full stature, the Noo=
ntide of Valinor was drawing to its close. For it came to pass that Melkor,=
 as the Valar had decreed, completed the term of his bondage, dwelling for =
three ages in the duress of Mandos, alone. At length, as Manw=C3=AB had pro=
mised, he was brought again before the thrones of the Valar. Then he looked=
 upon their glory and their bliss, and envy was in his heart; he looked upo=
n the Children of Il=C3=BAvatar that sat at the feet of the Mighty, and hat=
red filled him; he looked upon the wealth of bright gems, and he lusted for=
 them; but he hid his thoughts, and postponed his vengeance."

 


"


Now in his heart Melkor mo=
st hated the Eldar, both because they were fair and joyful and because in t=
hem he saw the reason for the arising of the Valar, and his own downfall. T=
herefore all the more did he feign love for them and seek their friendship,=
 and he offered them the service of his lore and labour in any great deed t=
hat they would do. The Vanyar indeed held him in suspicion, for they dwelt =
in the light of the Trees and were content; and to the Teleri he gave small=
 heed, thinking them of little worth, tools too weak for his designs. But t=
he Noldor took delight in the hidden knowledge that he could reveal to them=
; and some hearkened to words that it would have been better for them never=
 to have heard. Melkor indeed declared afterwards that F=C3=ABanor had lear=
ned much art from him in secret, and had been instructed by him in
 the gre=
atest of all his works; but he lied in his lust and his envy, for none of t=
he Eldali=C3=AB ever hated Melkor more than F=C3=ABanor son of Finw=C3=AB, =
who first named him Morgoth; and snared though he was in the webs of Melkor=
's malice against the Valar he held no converse with him in person and took no counse=
l from him. For F=C3=ABanor was driven by the fire of his own heart only, w=
orking ever swiftly and alone; and he asked the aid and sought the counsel =
of none that dwelt in Aman, great or small, save only and for a little whil=
e of Nerdanel the wise, his wife."

<=
/SPAN> 

 



--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Wendy=
  wrote:


From: Wendy 
Subject: [=
SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elvish and all that
To: SilmarillionWriter=
sGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 11:46 AM


=

  



Does anyone know *when* Feanor and Morgoth met? I need s=
ome details. Obscure bits of information will give me more options. 





      
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From: Alassante7 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti  Earthquake Recovery
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Beautiful dress.

~~**~~I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge=
.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien=C2=A0=C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=
=C2=A6:- 
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=
=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alass=
ante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=
=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:-

--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Dawn Felagund  wrote:

From: Dawn Felagund 
=
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti  Ear=
thquake Recovery
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday,=
 January 17, 2010, 8:54 AM







=C2=A0



  


    
      
      
      T=
hank you, Elleth! The list has gotten enormous since I was last online this=
 time yesterday, so I will be migrating it from the sidebar to the homepage=
. Thank you to all who are contributing.

A direct link to the auction for =
Roisin's gown, for anyone who is interested (and if I was not broke at the =
moment, man would I be! :)


http://community. livejournal. com/help_ haiti=
/822. html?view=3D 3788598#t3788598

Thanks again, all!

Dawn



-- 
~oOo~
=
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.silm=
aril lionwritersguild .org




    
     

    
    


 



  






      
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Beautiful dress.

~~**~~
I warn you,=
 if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.  
=
JRR Tolkien
 
=

 ..=C2=B7=
*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))   -:=C2=A6:- 
        =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=
=B4  .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))  -:|:- =C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante=
=
 .. =C2=BA=C2=B0=

    -:=C2=A6:-    ((=C2=B8=
=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|:-
=

<=
/div>


--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Dawn Felagund &l=
t;DawnFelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [Silmar=
illionWritersGuild] Fandom Community to Help Haiti  Earthquake Recovery
=
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, January 17, 2=
010,
 8:54 AM







 



    

      
      
      Thank you, Elleth! The list has gotten enormous since I was last online th=
is time yesterday, so I will be migrating it from the sidebar to the homepa=
ge. Thank you to all who are contributing.

A direct link to the auct=
ion for Roisin's gown, for anyone who is interested (and if I was not broke=
 at the moment, man would I be! :)


http://community. livejournal. com/help_ haiti/822. html?v=
iew=3D 3788598#t3788598

Thanks again, all!

Dawn



-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://th=
emidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril=
 lionwritersguild .org





    

     



 






      
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Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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> Which raises the question: is Hisweloke the most reliable site for >Elvis=
h languages?

I personally love Ardalambion (http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/), bu=
t it's not a dictionary as such.  It's a linguist's analysis of Tolkien's l=
anguages.  It does have wordlists, but most of it is analysis of linguistic=
 changes between the different languages and grammar structures.  I can usu=
ally only read a little before I have to give my brain a break.  But it is =
full of information, and I love using it to compare and contrast the differ=
ent languages.  (I have a WiP about Earwen that requires knowledge about th=
e differences between Telerin and Quenya, and Ardalambion is great for that=
.)

On the hannon le/le hannon question, Ardalambion doesn't have much info=
rmation.  The Sindarin page only cites the examples we've mentioned before,=
 with "le" before the verb.  (It also translates "ammen" as "of us" or "to =
us," making it an indirect object, which might be positioned differently [a=
ssuming "to forgive" is used as an intransitive verb here]).

But as Helge =
says over and over, we can't be certain of the structure when we're general=
izing from one or two examples.  "Le" comes before the verb in songs; well,=
 in English songs take plenty of liberties in word order.  In Quenya, objec=
t pronouns are usually attached to the end of the verb, although they can b=
e separate, so there is precedent for putting the pronoun after as well.

A=
nyway...  Sorry, I know we already finished that discussion.  But that's wh=
at happens when I start playing around with Ardalambion.  I recommend check=
ing it out!



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From: CGL 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Elvish and all that
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--- On Mon, 18/1/10, wolfwindha  wrote:

> (It also=
 translates "ammen" as "of us" or "to
> us," making it an indirect object, =
which might be positioned
> differently [assuming "to forgive" is used as a=
n
> intransitive verb here]).

Well, since the 'le' of 'le linnathon' (or '=
le hannon') is also an indirect object, this can't be said to be the reason=
 for the difference in sentence structure.  (Unless one wants to hypothesis=
e that prepositional prefixes are what move the pronoun to behind the verb,=
 but there's not much to prove any such theory.)

> But as Helge says over =
and over, we can't be certain of the
> structure when we're generalizing fr=
om one or two
> examples.

Exactly.  There are things that seem to be certa=
in rules, but much more that's too murky to say for sure.  And then all the=
 contradictions.

> In Quenya, object pronouns are usually attached
> to th=
e end of the verb, although they can be separate, so
> there is precedent f=
or putting the pronoun after as well.

Yes.  This is the emphatic usage in =
Quenya: separate pronouns that can stand alone (before the verb).

Cheers,
=
CGL


      


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From: "wolfwindha" 
Subject: Re: Elvish and all that
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> Well, since the 'le' of 'le linnathon' (or 'le hannon') is also an indire=
ct object, this can't be said to be the reason for the difference in senten=
ce structure.  

Oops!  That's what I get for writing without thinking.  *b=
lushes*  Thanks for pointing that out, CGL!



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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: February 2010 Newsletter Posted!
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Greetings, all,

The SWG's February 2010 newsletter has been posted!

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2010.php

What's in store for this month? Oshun continues her fascinating exploration
of the character of Glorfindel in this month's Character of the Month. If
you like comedy, Pandemonium's "Gothmog and Draugluin" ponders exactly how
helpful the Valar were in helping Fingon to rescue Maedhros, while Whitewave
lets us sneak a look at Glorfindel's photo album in "Chibi of the Month."

As usual, we also have news from the SWG and beyond. We are now accepting
registrations for this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event: a
writing/art challenge that is part of a quest game. The game moderators have
been hard at work for the past month, plotting and planning an event to
remember, so we hope to see a lot of you there! Back to Middle-earth Month
runs through the month of March, and we will accept registrations all
throughout February. Finally, the Help Haiti auction that many SWG members
were a part of was a huge success--find out more about this as well as
another upcoming auction to benefit the people of Haiti.

Again, you can find the newsletter here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2010.php

Happy reading! :)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d7e681d8ab59047ea90d4e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings, all,

The SWG's February 2010 newsletter has been post=
ed!

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2010.php=



What's in store for this month? Oshun continues her fascinatin=
g exploration of the character of Glorfindel in this month's Character =
of the Month. If you like comedy, Pandemonium's "Gothmog and Draug=
luin" ponders exactly how helpful the Valar were in helping Fingon to =
rescue Maedhros, while Whitewave lets us sneak a look at Glorfindel's p=
hoto album in "Chibi of the Month."


As usual, we also hav=
e news from the SWG and beyond. We are now accepting registrations for this=
 year's Back to Middle-earth Month event: a writing/art challenge that =
is part of a quest game. The game moderators have been hard at work for the=
 past month, plotting and planning an event to remember, so we hope to see =
a lot of you there! Back to Middle-earth Month runs through the month of Ma=
rch, and we will accept registrations all throughout February. Finally, the=
 Help Haiti auction that many SWG members were a part of was a huge success=
--find out more about this as well as another upcoming auction to benefit t=
he people of Haiti.


Again, you can find the newsletter here:
=
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2010.php

Ha=
ppy reading! :)


Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Fela=
gund
http://them=
idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



--0016e6d7e681d8ab59047ea90d4e--


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From: Jillian Baade 
Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Back to Middle-earth Month 2010 (No,
 Not Kidding)
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So, how do we get involved?

 

Jillian
 


To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@y=
ahoogroups.com
From: DawnFelagund@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:17:13=
 -0500
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Back to Middle-earth Month 2010 =
(No, Not Kidding)







Hi, everyone,

Back to Middle-earth Month is an an=
nual "holiday" held in March. This year will be, I believe, SWG's fifth yea=
r participating in B2MeM in some capacity. Believe it or not, we are starti=
ng to plan this year's event--no, I have not cracked (not fully, anyway), b=
ut it is to be a bit more labor-intensive than last year's, so I wanted to =
get an early start.

So how does this concern you? This year's event will b=
e a game: a team quest built around writing and artwork challenges. I hope =
that many of you will have the opportunity to play, but we also need game m=
oderators to help us plan and moderate. While we have some basic rules in p=
lace, we still have lots of creative work to be done in designing the game =
scenario, as well as the administrative stuff that will need to be done for=
 it to run smoothly, so we're looking for volunteers who might want to help=
 out with this.

The only caveat is that game moderators cannot also play i=
n the game. We're hoping to devise some tricks and surprises, and that woul=
d give an unfair advantage to those who were aware of them ahead of time. I=
f you want to volunteer and think you might also want to play, please do em=
ail me, and I will find something for you to do that will not compromise yo=
ur ability to play. If you want to be a game moderator and help with plotti=
ng, planning, devising, and scheming awful or fun (or awfully fun?) things =
to do to the players in the game, please email me off-list at DawnFelagund =
AT gmail DOT com and I'll get you set up in the game mods forum.

Secondly,=
 as it was last year, our B2MeM event will be for all Tolkien-based writing=
 and artwork, not just that based on The Silmarillion. So if you know anyon=
e or any groups outside of Silmdom that might be interested in participatin=
g, please do pass on this information to them. I will be contacting other g=
roups and mods eventually but certainly appreciate any help I can get with =
this in the meantime. :)

All inquiries about B2MeM can be directed to me p=
ersonally at this address or to all of the moderators at moderator AT silma=
rillionwritersguild DOT org.

Best regards,

Dawn
-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
h=
ttp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersgu=
ild.org



 		 	   		  
___________________________________________________=
______________
Shopping Trolley Mechanic If It Exists, You'll Find it on SE=
EK
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/
--_3398f863-d69f-441e-9ea2-c0391bcb296f_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable






So, how do we get involved?

 

Jillian
&=
nbsp;



To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.c=
om
From: DawnFelagund@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:17:13 -0500=

Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Back to Middle-earth Month 2010 (No=
, Not Kidding)







Hi, everyone,

Back to Mid=
dle-earth Month is an annual "holiday" held in March. This year will be, I =
believe, SWG's fifth year participating in B2MeM in some capacity. Believe =
it or not, we are starting to plan this year's event--no, I have not cracke=
d (not fully, anyway), but it is to be a bit more labor-intensive than last=
 year's, so I wanted to get an early start.

So how does this concern=
 you? This year's event will be a game: a team quest built around writing a=
nd artwork challenges. I hope that many of you will have the opportunity to=
 play, but we also need game moderators to help us plan and moderate. While=
 we have some basic rules in place, we still have lots of creative work to =
be done in designing the game scenario, as well as the administrative stuff=
 that will need to be done for it to run smoothly, so we're looking for vol=
unteers who might want to help out with this.

The only caveat is tha=
t game moderators cannot also play in the game. We're hoping to devise some=
 tricks and surprises, and that would give an unfair advantage to those who=
 were aware of them ahead of time. If you want to volunteer and think you m=
ight also want to play, please do email me, and I will find something for y=
ou to do that will not compromise your ability to play. If you want to be a=
 game moderator and help with plotting, planning, devising, and scheming aw=
ful or fun (or awfully fun?) things to do to the players in the game, pleas=
e email me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com and I'll get you set u=
p in the game mods forum.

Secondly, as it was last year, our B2MeM e=
vent will be for all Tolkien-based writing and artwork, not just tha=
t based on The Silmarillion. So if you know anyone or any groups out=
side of Silmdom that might be interested in participating, please do pass o=
n this information to them. I will be contacting other groups and mods even=
tually but certainly appreciate any help I can get with this in the meantim=
e. :)

All inquiries about B2MeM can be directed to me personally at =
this address or to all of the moderators at moderator AT silmarillionwriter=
sguild DOT org.

Best regards,

Dawn

-- 
=
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org=





 		 	   		 =
 
If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK Shopping Trolley Mechan=
ic

--_3398f863-d69f-441e-9ea2-c0391bcb296f_--


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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:12:56 -0500
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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Back to Middle-earth Month 2010 (No, 
	Not Kidding)
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I'm glad you asked, Jillian. :) I'll be making a post about B2MeM later,
probably tomorrow (tonight, I have lots of schoolwork to finish and know I
won't have time ... meh).

The event is now open for registrations; the website is here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/index.php

We *will* still be asking for help from volunteers, so anyone who wants to
help with administrative stuff to run the event is welcome to email me
off-list, and I will contact you as soon as we have volunteer jobs open up.

Look for more soon! :)

Dawn

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Jillian Baade  wrote:

>
>
> So, how do we get involved?
>
> Jillian
>
-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d588b9fdc5b2047ebc082c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm glad you asked, Jillian. :) I'll be making a post about B2MeM l=
ater, probably tomorrow (tonight, I have lots of schoolwork to finish and k=
now I won't have time ... meh).

The event is now open for regist=
rations; the website is here:


http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/=
b2mem2010/index.php

We will still be asking for help from=
 volunteers, so anyone who wants to help with administrative stuff to run t=
he event is welcome to email me off-list, and I will contact you as soon as=
 we have volunteer jobs open up.


Look for more soon! :)

Dawn=


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Jillian =
Baade <jilba25@=
hotmail.com> wrote:

















=C2=A0




  



    

      
      =

      



So, how do we get involved?

=C2=A0

Jillian
-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.ne=
t/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org



--0016e6d588b9fdc5b2047ebc082c--


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From: Zhie 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elvish and all that
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=44VKcKGzwIKSf2jHLlCpEu0pdF9v9lEPfJcfp8GmOfEqx-_yUFg
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It's interesting to watch things come full circle.

Back probably around 20=
03-2004, there was a big discussion in groups like
Haldir's Whores, the ori=
ginal Haldir_Lovers group and in conjunction with
places like Galahdrim.net=
 regarding the question of what do you call a male
elf and a female elf.  T=
here were about four or five different suggestions,
a poll that was taken, =
and an eventual general consensus that 'ellon/ellyn
or ellin' and 'elleth/ =
ellyth or ellith' were a GREAT idea.  Prior to that,
there didn't seem to b=
e a fanon-accepted set of terms, but after that it was
much more noticeable=
 that people who wanted 'elfcentric' terms would go with
those, and it just=
 sort of traveled through the fandom.

So from a social-communal virtual so=
mething or other aspect, this was just
so interesting to see.

I will admit=
, unashamedly, for being on the side of the ellon & elleth
thing.  Because =
I liked how the words sounded, uncanon as they might be,
compared to the ot=
her options that were being tossed around at the time.

Also?  Elflings... =
yeah... I am very much one of those people who probably
helped with that.  =
Someone else certainly started it, but I would wager
having at least fifty =
fics in circulation with elflings in them.  I would
apologize to those who =
are groaning right now... but I've yet to apologize
for goats, pink flaming=
os, or cheesecake, so I think I'll just be proudly
oblivious on the elfling=
s, too.

I also have dwarflings.  Yeah.  I'm a bad influence...

I just wis=
h I could have goatlings.  Wait... I should so do that anyhow!

But of cour=
se, like anyone, I have a pet peeve when it comes to Elvish.
It's not the u=
se of it that bothers me, it's the people who decided to add
the translatio=
n (after the word or phrase like this) when they write.  Notes
at the botto=
m are okay, and actually, I'm not even all that upset by people
who have no=
 notes at all (but the notations within the text get annoying).

*goes off =
to ponder goatling stories*

-Zhie



On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Wen=
dy  wrote:

>
>
> Well I've been asked to beta =
someone's story, and discovered the use of
> random Elvish (Sindarin) when =
referring to Elves. Now this is my personal
> view, which, though I persona=
lly cling to it like grim death, I wouldn't
> presume to impose on others:
=
>
> Words like "Ellon" I'd strip out because it's a Sindarin word and doesn=
't
> make sense in a text written in English. To me, it seems that if you s=
imply
> must use "Ellon," your story ought to read like this:
>
> The young=
 ellon scratched his carach, a frown on his fair face. The look in
> his he=
nt portended trouble. All around him, aeglos of assorted sizes lay
> scatte=
red on the taur floor, the remnants of the great eryn that had stood
> ther=
e before.
>
> You'd need several pages for your author notes, wouldn't you?=
 Why not just
> put the whole lot in English unless there's not an English =
word equivalent
> to the meaning you're aiming for? E.g. "The tsunami struc=
k in the early
> hours of the morning, taking residents of the beachfront r=
esort by
> surprise."
>
> I can imagine the response: "Why not use 'tidal w=
ave,' smart alec?"
>
> Because the nearest thing to a tidal wave we have is=
 the tidal bores that
> go upriver on the Severn and the Thames in England.=
 A storm surge might be
> exacerbated by a high tide, but really, strictly =
speaking, we haven't got a
> word in our language that is as accurate for w=
hat it is as "tsunami." So we
> thanked the Japanese politely for providing=
 the word, and have been using it
> ever since.
>
> Does that mean you shou=
ld never use Elvish words at all? Well, since "Ada"
> is so personal to Elv=
es, I'd have no objection to its use, myself. It's like
> "Daddy" to us, an=
d it feels wrong to me to put "Daddy" into an elfling's
> mouth. I'd defini=
tely use "elfling," (though strictly speaking, it's fanon,
> isn't it? I ha=
ven't seen it in the texts I have access to), because it means
> "little El=
f." Elf children are different from human children in so many ways
> that i=
t makes sense to have a special name for them. But that's just me. I'm
> aw=
are it makes me sound a bit hypocritical.
>
> So... opinions?
>
>  
>



--=
 
Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious...
http://phoenix.zhie.=
us
They're always after me purple bunnies...

--001636164505c06925047ec07593
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It's interesting to watch things come full circle.

Back probably=
 around 2003-2004, there was a big discussion in groups like Haldir's W=
hores, the original Haldir_Lovers group and in conjunction with places like=
 Galahdrim.net regarding the question of what do you call a male elf and a =
female elf.=A0 There were about four or five different suggestions, a poll =
that was taken, and an eventual general consensus that 'ellon/ellyn or =
ellin' and 'elleth/ ellyth or ellith' were a GREAT idea.=A0 Pri=
or to that, there didn't seem to be a fanon-accepted set of terms, but =
after that it was much more noticeable that people who wanted 'elfcentr=
ic' terms would go with those, and it just sort of traveled through the=
 fandom.


So from a social-communal virtual something or other aspec=
t, this was just so interesting to see.

I will admit, unashamedly, f=
or being on the side of the ellon & elleth thing.=A0 Because I liked ho=
w the words sounded, uncanon as they might be, compared to the other option=
s that were being tossed around at the time.


Also?=A0 Elflings... y=
eah... I am very much one of those people who probably helped with that.=A0=
 Someone else certainly started it, but I would wager having at least fifty=
 fics in circulation with elflings in them.=A0 I would apologize to those w=
ho are groaning right now... but I've yet to apologize for goats, pink =
flamingos, or cheesecake, so I think I'll just be proudly oblivious on =
the elflings, too.=A0 


I also have dwarflings.=A0 Yeah.=A0 I'm =
a bad influence...

I just wish I could have goatlings.=A0 Wait... I =
should so do that anyhow!

But of course, like anyone, I have a pet p=
eeve when it comes to Elvish.=A0 It's not the use of it that bothers me=
, it's the people who decided to add the translation (after the word or=
 phrase like this) when they write.=A0 Notes at the bottom are okay, and ac=
tually, I'm not even all that upset by people who have no notes at all =
(but the notations within the text get annoying). 


*goes off to pon=
der goatling stories*

-Zhie



On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Wendy <wendwriter1@googlemail.com> wrote:






=












=A0




  



    

      
      
      
Well I've been=
 asked to beta someone's story, and discovered the use of random Elvish=
 (Sindarin) when referring to Elves. Now this is my personal view, which, t=
hough I personally cling to it like grim death, I wouldn't presume to i=
mpose on others:




Words like "Ellon" I'd strip out b=
ecause it's a Sindarin word and doesn't make sense in a text writte=
n in English. To me, it seems that if you simply must use "Ellon,"=
; your story ought to read like this:




The young ellon scratched h=
is carach, a frown on his fair face. The look in his hent portended trouble=
. All around him, aeglos of assorted sizes lay scattered on the taur floor,=
 the remnants of the great eryn that had stood there before. 




You=
'd need several pages for your author notes, wouldn't you? Why not =
just put the whole lot in English unless there's not an English word eq=
uivalent to the meaning you're aiming for? E.g. "The tsunami struc=
k in the early hours of the morning, taking residents of the beachfront res=
ort by surprise."




I can imagine the response: "Why not =
use 'tidal wave,' smart alec?"



Because the nearest th=
ing to a tidal wave we have is the tidal bores that go upriver on the Sever=
n and the Thames in England. A storm surge might be exacerbated by a high t=
ide, but really, strictly speaking, we haven't got a word in our langua=
ge that is as accurate for what it is as "tsunami." So we thanked=
 the Japanese politely for providing the word, and have been using it ever =
since.




Does that mean you should never use Elvish words at all? W=
ell, since "Ada" is so personal to Elves, I'd have no objecti=
on to its use, myself. It's like "Daddy" to us, and it feels =
wrong to me to put "Daddy" into an elfling's mouth. I'd d=
efinitely use "elfling," (though strictly speaking, it's fano=
n, isn't it? I haven't seen it in the texts I have access to), beca=
use it means "little Elf." Elf children are different from human =
children in so many ways that it makes sense to have a special name for the=
m. But that's just me. I'm aware it makes me sound a bit hypocritic=
al. 




So... opinions?






    

=
     

    
    
=









  










--=
 
Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious...
http://phoenix.zhie.us
They're always a=
fter me purple bunnies...



--001636164505c06925047ec07593--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Elvish and all that
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=59n14tLAQgS57i7VGfstVFA9NrjYRdLx2G8x2ugIjUi7sljrXBvY
X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund


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Interesting observation, Zhie! I think it really is a matter of "different
strokes for different folks" ... kind of like I want to hit my head on the
pavement at the notion that "Elves never use contractions in speech" (it's a
translation, people!) while there are certainly those who despise how
casually my Elves speak ... and curse ("Elves would never do that! It
doesn't sound like Tolkien!").

I keep finding myself defaulting to personal preference. I've read stories
with elleth/ellon/elflings where I don't even notice that the author is
doing it till I reach the translation at the end. To me, that is a
successful story ... you have a voice that may sound very different than
mine, but you convince me of it. Then there are stories where the use is
jarring and obvious. Then there are stories with nary and elleth or ellon or
elfling that are nonetheless graceless.

(I always wondered, too, from where the word "elfling" came! :)

I agree with you about the Elvish translations. Done in-text? Ick. I tend to
feel that if it is used *well*, then you shouldn't need a translation at
all; the context should give information enough that the reader doesn't have
to volley back and forth between the text and the notes at the end. But, in
general, I am ambivalent about authors' notes. I sometimes wish authors
would let their stories stand more on their own without feeling the need to
explain how every last detail is derived from the texts. I tend to expect
that either 1) my readers are well-read enough to figure things out for
themselves or 2) ask if they are curious and maybe don't recognize the
allusion. At the same time, I understand why author's notes are sometimes
used to excess in this fandom. But that is a grumble for a whole 'nother
time. :)

Dawn

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Zhie  wrote:

>   But of course, like anyone, I have a pet peeve when it comes to Elvish.
> It's not the use of it that bothers me, it's the people who decided to add
> the translation (after the word or phrase like this) when they write.  Notes
> at the bottom are okay, and actually, I'm not even all that upset by people
> who have no notes at all (but the notations within the text get annoying).
>
>
-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d99fa1b7aea4047ec74922
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Interesting observation, Zhie! I think it really is a matter of "=
different strokes for different folks" ... kind of like I want to hit =
my head on the pavement at the notion that "Elves never use contractio=
ns in speech" (it's a translation, people!) while there are certai=
nly those who despise how casually my Elves speak ... and curse ("Elve=
s would never do that! It doesn't sound like Tolkien!").


=C2=A0


I keep finding myself defaulting to personal preferenc=
e. I've read stories with elleth/ellon/elflings where I don't even =
notice that the author is doing it till I reach the translation at the end.=
 To me, that is a successful story ... you have a voice that may sound very=
 different than mine, but you convince me of it. Then there are stories whe=
re the use is jarring and obvious. Then there are stories with nary and ell=
eth or ellon or elfling that are nonetheless graceless.



=C2=A0<=
/div>

(I always wondered, too, from where the word "elfling"=
 came! :)


=C2=A0


I agree with you about the Elvish tr=
anslations. Done in-text? Ick. I tend to feel that if it is used well, then you shouldn't need a translation at all; the context should g=
ive information enough that the reader doesn't have to volley back and =
forth between the text and the notes at the end. But, in general, I am ambi=
valent about authors' notes. I sometimes wish authors would let their s=
tories stand more on their own without feeling the need to explain how ever=
y last detail is derived from the texts. I tend to expect that either 1) my=
 readers are well-read enough to figure things out for themselves or 2) ask=
 if they are curious and maybe don't recognize the allusion. At the sam=
e time, I understand why author's notes are sometimes used to excess in=
 this fandom. But that is a grumble for a whole 'nother time. :)

=


=C2=A0


Dawn



On Th=
u, Feb 4, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Zhie <zhiester@gmail.com> wrote:






=






But of course, like anyone, I have a pet peeve when it come=
s to Elvish.=C2=A0 It's not the use of it that bothers me, it's the=
 people who decided to add the translation (after the word or phrase like t=
his) when they write.=C2=A0 Notes at the bottom are okay, and actually, I&#=
39;m not even all that upset by people who have no notes at all (but the no=
tations within the text get annoying). 



-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorem=
aster/
http://ww=
w.silmarillionwritersguild.org


--0016e6d99fa1b7aea4047ec74922--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month 2010: The Last Battle
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(Please do share this post with any individuals or groups that might be
interested in participating in this year's B2MeM! You do *not* need to be an
SWG member or a Silmarillion writer to participate! :)

March is Back to Middle-earth Month, and we are currently accepting
registrations for this year's event!

This year's event is a writing/art challenge and quest game. When I tell
people this, I usually get a puzzled look and, "A wha--?" In a nutshell, the
event consists of two components:

*The writing/art challenge.* Like last year, the heart of the event is
creating stories, poems, and artwork in response to challenges. There will
be five challenges--one per week--across the course of the game. These will
be a lot like last year's challenges (
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php) in that they will be
very open-ended and able to generate responses in any form and about any
race and time period in Tolkien's legendarium.

*The quest game.* This year, the writing challenge will correspond a quest
game. It is the Final Battle, and the people of Arda are organizing against
Melkor. As you complete your writing challenges, you will earn items to aid
in this battle. You will journey throughout Arda from week to week (where
you stop depends on the challenge you will complete) as you try to earn the
items that you need to defeat Melkor.

More information about how the game works is available here:
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.php?page=game_rules

A few additional important points to make ...

"Five challenges in one month? Wow, that's a lot! I don't know if I'll be
able to keep up." If you'd like to participate but aren't sure whether you
can complete five challenges in one month (which is, indeed, a lot), please
note that teams of up to four people are perfectly acceptable. You are
welcome to participate on your own, of course, but if you want to bring
along a few friends to share responsibilities, please do!

"I write slash/het/adult-rated/fluff/comic
strips/darkfic/MPREG/AU/crossover--is my work eligible?" At SWG, we have
always had the policy of accepting all Silmarillion-based writing and do not
make quality judgments based on genre, subject, rating, or interpretation.
During Back to Middle-earth Month, we open that further to
*all*Tolkien-based writing as well as artwork. Our Site Etiquette and
Terms of
Service have more information on the few items that we cannot or will not
accept.

So, yes, again *all* Tolkien-based writing will be welcome for B2MeM on the
B2MeM site. (We continue to allow Silm only on our archive and LiveJournal
community.) So no matter what your tastes, we welcome your contributions!

"Is this an RPG?" We have nothing against role-playing games (RPGs) but this
certainly is not one. There is a forum (the Tavern) for sharing information
with other players, but you do not need to role-play in order to use it or
to participate in the event. (Those of you who *want* to role-play in the
Tavern are welcome to do so, but it is not required.)

*If you are interested in participating,* please check out our site (
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/) and the game rules (
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.php?page=game_rules).
If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me
off-list, post to this thread, or to email me at any of the SWG email
addresses. If you're interested in participating, you may register here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.php?page=registration

You may register at any time during the month of February.

Finally, I want to give a much-earned thanks to those who are acting as game
mods and have refined my original and somewhat-crazy idea into something
that is workable: Rhapsody, Angelica, Tarion, Russandol, Roisin,
SurgicalSteel, and my husband Bobby--thank you all!

We will be posting stories periodically throughout the next few weeks that
set the stage for the Final Battle--I hope to see many of you there! :)

Dawn

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d7eb46c3be7f047ec8e1b0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


(Please do share this post with any individuals or groups that might b=
e interested in participating in this year's B2MeM! You do not=
 need to be an SWG member or a Silmarillion writer to participate! :)
=



=C2=A0


March is Back to Middle-earth Month, and we are cu=
rrently accepting registrations for this year's event!


=C2=
=A0


This year's event is a writing/art challenge and quest g=
ame. When I tell people this, I usually get a puzzled look and, "A wha=
--?" In a nutshell, the event consists of two components:


=
=C2=A0


The writing/art challenge. Like last yea=
r, the heart of the event is creating stories, poems, and artwork in respon=
se to challenges. There will be five challenges--one per week--across the c=
ourse of the game. These will be a lot like last year's challenges (http://www.s=
ilmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2009.php) in that they will be very op=
en-ended and able to generate responses in any form and=C2=A0about any race=
 and time period in Tolkien's legendarium.



=C2=A0

The quest game. This year, the writing challenge will co=
rrespond a quest game. It is the Final Battle, and the people of Arda are o=
rganizing against Melkor. As you complete your writing challenges, you will=
 earn items to aid in this battle. You will journey throughout Arda from we=
ek to week (where you stop depends on the challenge you will complete) as y=
ou try to earn the items that you need to defeat Melkor.



=C2=A0=



More information about how the game works is available here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.=
php?page=3Dgame_rules



=C2=A0


A few additional im=
portant points to make ...


=C2=A0


"Five challeng=
es in one month? Wow, that's a lot! I don't know if I'll be abl=
e to keep up." If you'd like to participate but aren't sure wh=
ether you can complete five challenges in one month (which is, indeed, a lo=
t), please note that teams of up to four people are perfectly acceptable. Y=
ou are welcome to participate on your own, of course, but if you want to br=
ing along a few friends to share responsibilities, please do!



=
=C2=A0


"I write slash/het/adult-rated/fluff/comic strips/da=
rkfic/MPREG/AU/crossover--is my work eligible?" At SWG, we have always=
 had the policy of accepting all Silmarillion-based writing and do not make=
 quality judgments based on genre, subject, rating, or interpretation. Duri=
ng Back to Middle-earth Month, we open that further to all Tolkien=
-based writing as well as artwork. Our Site Etiquette and Terms of Service =
have more information on the few items that we cannot or will not accept.


=C2=A0


So, yes, again all Tolkien-based writ=
ing will be welcome for B2MeM on the B2MeM site. (We continue to allow Silm=
 only on our archive and LiveJournal community.) So no matter what your tas=
tes, we welcome your contributions!



=C2=A0


"Is =
this an RPG?" We have nothing against role-playing games (RPGs) but th=
is certainly is not one. There is a forum (the Tavern) for sharing informat=
ion with other players, but you do not need to role-play in order to use it=
 or to participate in the event. (Those of you who want to role-pl=
ay in the Tavern are welcome to do so, but it is not required.)


=C2=A0


If you are interested in participating,=
 please check out our site (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/) and=
 the game rules (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/=
b2mem2010/viewpage.php?page=3Dgame_rules). If you have any questions or=
 concerns, please feel free to contact me off-list, post to this thread,=C2=
=A0or to email me at any of the SWG email addresses. If you're interest=
ed in participating, you may register here:



=C2=A0


<=
a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.php?pa=
ge=3Dregistration">http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpa=
ge.php?page=3Dregistration


=C2=A0


You may registe=
r at any time during the month of February.


=C2=A0


Fi=
nally, I want to give a much-earned thanks to those who are acting as game =
mods and have refined my original and somewhat-crazy idea into something th=
at is workable: Rhapsody, Angelica, Tarion, Russandol, Roisin, SurgicalStee=
l, and my husband Bobby--thank you all!



=C2=A0


We wi=
ll be posting stories periodically throughout the next few weeks that set t=
he stage for the Final Battle--I hope to see many of you there! :)

=C2=A0



--0016e6d7eb46c3be7f047ec8e1b0--


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From: Alassante7 
Subject: ..::A Long Expected Contest - March's Theme-Feeling lucky?::..
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From: alassante7 
Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] =
..::March's Theme - Feeling lucky?::..
To: A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogro=
ups.com
Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 9:04 PM







=A0



  


    
 =
     
      
      The theme for March is 'Feeling Lucky?' It doesn't have =
to be based on documented events=A0and=A0need to be based on an actual char=
acter in the books. Each writer has until March 31st by 12:00 AM PST  to tu=
rn in the story to alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com. 
Please include the pro=
per formatting for LJ. I'm posting the instructions in the group under file=
s, if you have any questions.

Good luck and happy writing!
Don't forget - =
January's 'Forbidden Love' themed stories are due on February 13th before 1=
2:00PST so they can be posted by Valentine's Day.

http://groups.yahoo.com/=
group/A_Long_Expected_Contest/
http://community.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/


=
 



  






      
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From: alassante7 =

Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] ..::March's Theme - Feeling lucky?::=
..
To: A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, Februa=
ry 4, 2010, 9:04 PM







 



    
      
      
      
The theme for March is 'Feeling L=
ucky?' 
It doesn't have to be based on document=
ed events and need to be based on an actual character in the book=
s. Each writer has until March 31st by =
12:00 AM PST  to turn in the story to alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com. =

P=
lease include the proper formatting for LJ. I'm posting the instructions in=
 the group under files, if you have any questions.

Good luck and happy writing!

Don't forget - January's 'Forbidden Lo=
ve' themed stories are due on February 13th before 12=
:00PST so they can be posted by Valentine's Day.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_Long_Expect=
ed_Contest/
ht=
tp://community.livejournal.com/a_l_e_c/


 =









      
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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: B2MeM 2010: "Within the Circles of the World" by Russandol
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As we lead in to B2MeM 2010, the creators and moderators of the event will
=
be sharing fiction and poetry that sets the scene for the Final Battle. Thi=
s
first story, "Within the Circles of the World," was written by Russandol.=
 If
you're interested in participating or learning more about B2MeM 2010, y=
ou
can visit our website (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010=
/)
or contact me.

--

*Within the Circles of the World
*by Russandol

Alvi=
n never failed to be awed by the sight that now spread under his feet.
He h=
ad been trained to carry out his tasks as quickly and efficiently as
possib=
le, given the risks of even the most trivial routine maintenance
mission ou=
tside the Station, but for a few seconds he paused in his
spacewalk to take=
 in the illuminated crescent that spanned before him. The
blue and white we=
re almost blinding in their richness against the dark
firmament.

Then he l=
ooked beyond the planet and for a handful of heartbeats he enjoyed
the view=
 that few could claim to have seen with their very eyes: the glory
of the s=
tarred sky undimmed by the Earth=E2=80=99s veil.

Right underneath him the =
giant jewelled mosaic of clustered lights outlined
the contours of inhabite=
d land and competed in radiance with the distant
stars. In his current posi=
tion he could easily make out the profiles of
Southern India and Sri Lanka,=
 studded in diamond-like sparks.

>From up there, the Earth still seemed bea=
utiful, serene, perfect, unlike the
overcrowded, polluted planet it had bec=
ome. Old archive pictures had shown
him how there had once existed large pa=
tches of vivid emerald, now shrunk to
tiny specks; jungles and forests had =
been all but replaced by the dull brown
and ochre of encroaching deserts an=
d wastelands.

The silence and solemnity of space was highly conducive to a=
ll sorts of
philosophic ruminations. In Alvin=E2=80=99s mind there was no d=
oubt that mankind may
have already reached the point of no return, from whi=
ch their planet, too
exploited, wounded, and marred beyond salvation would =
be unable to recover.
He shook his head inside the helmet that separated hi=
m from vacuum and death
and forced himself to concentrate on the task at ha=
nd.

Suddenly, the Evening Star, Venus, which on this particular day was
pr=
ecursor of dawn, flared like a beacon. *How can it be? It should not be
vis=
ible yet.* Further to the North Orion, the Hunter of the Sky, seemed to
pul=
se crimson as in response.

Alvin blinked hard, stunned. He tried to persua=
de himself that a trick of
the light, perhaps glare on the helmet visor, ha=
d cheated his eyes or that
he had imagined it all. But deep within he was c=
ertain that he had witnessed
a sign of some kind.

Resolutely he waved it a=
ll aside. This was hardly the time or place to muse
about such strange phen=
omena. Cautiously he anchored himself to the mast of
the antenna in need of=
 repairs and radioed the Station Control to check in.
Then he set the robot=
s to work. While he supervised their progress he
decided he would not menti=
on what he had seen. If he was thought to suffer
from hallucinations he wou=
ld be grounded and assigned to mindless
administrative tasks.

Then, as the=
 station orbited the Earth, dawn broke over the curve of the
planet and bat=
hed him in glorious daylight. Before he began to make his way
back to the t=
riple hatch through which he would enter the station he swept
his eyes arou=
nd him one last time. To the North-East and below his position,
over the Ca=
ribbean, he noticed what he could only describe as a huge
translucent, slig=
htly glimmering mist, definitely far above where clouds
should end. He look=
ed again more carefully, puzzled.

The strange haze seemed to flicker, as i=
f it would melt in the rays of the
glaring sun. Mesmerised, he watched. Onl=
y a week before he had been ordered
to sleep more hours. He had obeyed the =
doctor=E2=80=99s orders. Now he was certain
that this was no trick of a sle=
ep-deprived mind. Nevertheless he doubted his
eyes, and cursed his inabilit=
y to rub them.

Then he realised that each flicker made the glowing fog sli=
ghtly more
visible. Like a mirage turning solid.

After several seconds of =
hesitation he finally radioed Control and asked if
there were any reports o=
f large debris or perhaps an unreported satellite in
the area, even though =
regulations forbid such proximity. The answer from his
colleagues was negat=
ive on both counts and he was about to sign off when he
heard warning beeps=
 through the transmission.

All instruments had begun to give strange readi=
ngs, well off the accepted
tolerance levels, and they suggested the presenc=
e of a huge mass in the
vicinity. Everything seemed to indicate the impossi=
ble, that somehow it had
materialised out of nothingness. Alvin was summone=
d inside at once, as part
of the emergency protocol that dealt with a poten=
tial collision.

But Alvin was not in a hurry to obey the command, and inst=
ead turned down
the volume of his radio headphones. Whatever it was: mirage=
, solar
disturbance, hallucination or alien spaceship with sinister intenti=
ons to
invade Earth, it was rapidly gaining in detail and losing its transp=
arency,
though the strange silver radiance had not diminished.

And then, w=
hen all of a sudden the vision became sharp and clear to his
eyes, Alvin wa=
s awed at the splendour and beauty of the revealed panorama,
impossibly per=
ched between Earth and sky, defying all laws of nature, or at
least those t=
hat were known and understood to mankind. But he purposefully
chose not to =
question the feasibility of what was before him. Instead he
suspended all d=
isbelief, as he did when he immersed himself in a virtual
reality session d=
uring his leisure time, and studied every minute detail of
the scene before=
 him.

First of all he noticed the city, its spires and towers glimmering i=
n
iridescent hues, as if made of mother of pearl. Below them, magnificent
b=
uildings of white stone, gardens, courtyards and squares in which he knew,
=
more than saw, people were gathering to look up anxiously at the sky.

Alvi=
n could no longer recognise any familiar coastlines underneath the path
of =
the Station. Instead, as it hurtled Eastwards on its orbit, he found
himsel=
f floating over wooded hills, green pastures, forests and lakes.
Beyond the=
 city stood an immense range of snow-peaked mountains. Through a
gap he esp=
ied white shores and beyond, in the distance, an island with a
white tower,=
 on a sapphire sea that made his heart long for the cry of
seagulls.

He fo=
und himself weeping at the sight. *=E2=80=98Who are you? What are you?=E2=
=80=99* he
cried silently. There was something familiar; he knew he had see=
n this alien
country, this peaceful land of fairy before, if only with the =
eyes of his
imagination.

A sudden memory triggered in his mind, of winter =
nights when his grandfather
used to read to him wondrous bedtime stories ab=
out swords and dragons,
brilliant jewels and evil rings of power that would=
 twist the will of men.
About the blissful land of the Elves across the Sea=
, where they lived with
the gods. Invisible lands of legend, taken into the=
 realm of hidden things
to shield them from those who in vain sought immort=
ality.

Alvin forced himself to remember, and the name popped into his head=
. *Aman.*

He smiled in wonder while the radio crackled and urged him to en=
ter the
Station. Then the hair on his nape prickled in warning and reluctan=
tly he
took his eyes off the lands of Aman.

Out of the West a Shadow was r=
ising. Alvin watched in fascination as
tendrils of inky darkness slowly beg=
an to swallow the stars, one by one.
--

Alvin: From a medieval form of the=
 Old English name =C3=86Llfwine ("elf-friend").



-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
=
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersg=
uild.org

--0016e6d99a98492228047edca0be
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As we lead in to B2MeM 2010, the creators and moderators of the event will =
be sharing fiction and poetry that sets the scene for the Final Battle. Thi=
s first story, "Within the Circles of the World," was written by =
Russandol. If you're interested in participating or learning more about=
 B2MeM 2010, you can visit our website (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem20=
10/) or contact me.


--

Within the Circles of the Worl=
d
by Russandol

Alvin neve=
r failed to be awed by the
sight that now spread under his feet. He had bee=
n trained to carry out
his tasks as quickly and efficiently as possible, gi=
ven the risks of
even the most trivial routine maintenance mission outside =
the Station,
but for a few seconds he paused in his spacewalk to take in th=
e
illuminated crescent that spanned before him. The blue and white were
alm=
ost blinding in their richness against the dark firmament.



Then he =
looked beyond the planet and for a handful of heartbeats he
enjoyed the vie=
w that few could claim to have seen with their very
eyes: the glory of the =
starred sky undimmed by the Earth=E2=80=99s veil.



Right underneath =
him the giant jewelled mosaic of clustered lights
outlined the contours of =
inhabited land and competed in radiance with
the distant stars. In his curr=
ent position he could easily make out the
profiles of Southern India and Sr=
i Lanka, studded in diamond-like
sparks.



From up there, the Earth s=
till seemed beautiful, serene, perfect,
unlike the overcrowded, polluted pl=
anet it had become. Old archive
pictures had shown him how there had once e=
xisted large patches of
vivid emerald, now shrunk to tiny specks; jungles a=
nd forests had been
all but replaced by the dull brown and ochre of encroac=
hing deserts and
wastelands.



The silence and solemnity of space was=
 highly conducive to all sorts
of philosophic ruminations. In Alvin=E2=80=
=99s mind there was no doubt that
mankind may have already reached the poin=
t of no return, from which
their planet, too exploited, wounded, and marred=
 beyond salvation would
be unable to recover. He shook his head inside the =
helmet that
separated him from vacuum and death and forced himself to conce=
ntrate
on the task at hand.

 

Suddenly, the Evening Star, Venus, whi=
ch on this particular day was precursor of dawn, flared like a beacon. H=
ow can it be? It should not be visible yet. Further to the North Orion,=
 the Hunter of the Sky, seemed to pulse crimson as in response.




Alvin blinked hard, stunned. He tried to
persuade hi=
mself that a trick of the light, perhaps glare on the helmet
visor, had che=
ated his eyes or that he had imagined it all. But deep
within he was certai=
n that he had witnessed a sign of some kind.



Resolutely he waved it=
 all aside. This was hardly the time or place
to muse about such strange ph=
enomena. Cautiously he anchored himself to
the mast of the antenna in need =
of repairs and radioed the Station
Control to check in. Then he set the rob=
ots to work. While he
supervised their progress he decided he would not men=
tion what he had
seen. If he was thought to suffer from hallucinations he w=
ould be
grounded and assigned to mindless administrative tasks.



The=
n, as the station orbited the Earth, dawn broke over the curve of
the plane=
t and bathed him in glorious daylight. Before he began to make
his way back=
 to the triple hatch through which he would enter the
station he swept his =
eyes around him one last time. To the North-East
and below his position, ov=
er the Caribbean, he noticed what he could
only describe as a huge transluc=
ent, slightly glimmering mist,
definitely far above where clouds should end=
. He looked again more
carefully, puzzled.



The strange haze seemed =
to flicker, as if it would melt in the rays
of the glaring sun. Mesmerised,=
 he watched. Only a week before he had
been ordered to sleep more hours. He=
 had obeyed the doctor=E2=80=99s orders.
Now he was certain that this was n=
o trick of a sleep-deprived mind.
Nevertheless he doubted his eyes, and cur=
sed his inability to rub them.



Then he realised that each flicker m=
ade the glowing fog slightly more visible. Like a mirage turning solid.
=



After several seconds of hesitation he finally radioed Control and
ask=
ed if there were any reports of large debris or perhaps an
unreported satel=
lite in the area, even though regulations forbid such
proximity. The answer=
 from his colleagues was negative on both counts
and he was about to sign o=
ff when he heard warning beeps through the
transmission.



All instru=
ments had begun to give strange readings, well off the
accepted tolerance l=
evels, and they suggested the presence of a huge
mass in the vicinity. Ever=
ything seemed to indicate the impossible,
that somehow it had materialised =
out of nothingness. Alvin was summoned
inside at once, as part of the emerg=
ency protocol that dealt with a
potential collision.



But Alvin was =
not in a hurry to obey the command, and instead turned
down the volume of h=
is radio headphones. Whatever it was: mirage, solar
disturbance, hallucinat=
ion or alien spaceship with sinister intentions
to invade Earth, it was rap=
idly gaining in detail and losing its
transparency, though the strange silv=
er radiance had not diminished.



And then, when all of a sudden the =
vision became sharp and clear to
his eyes, Alvin was awed at the splendour =
and beauty of the revealed
panorama, impossibly perched between Earth and s=
ky, defying all laws of
nature, or at least those that were known and under=
stood to mankind.
But he purposefully chose not to question the feasibility=
 of what was
before him. Instead he suspended all disbelief, as he did when=
 he
immersed himself in a virtual reality session during his leisure time,
=
and studied every minute detail of the scene before him.



First of a=
ll he noticed the city, its spires and towers glimmering
in iridescent hues=
, as if made of mother of pearl. Below them,
magnificent buildings of white=
 stone, gardens, courtyards and squares
in which he knew, more than saw, pe=
ople were gathering to look up
anxiously at the sky.



Alvin could no=
 longer recognise any familiar coastlines underneath
the path of the Statio=
n. Instead, as it hurtled Eastwards on its orbit,
he found himself floating=
 over wooded hills, green pastures, forests
and lakes. Beyond the city stoo=
d an immense range of snow-peaked
mountains. Through a gap he espied white =
shores and beyond, in the
distance, an island with a white tower, on a sapp=
hire sea that made his
heart long for the cry of seagulls.



He found=
 himself weeping at the sight. =E2=80=98Who are you? What are you?=E2=
=80=99
he cried silently. There was something familiar; he knew he had=
 seen
this alien country, this peaceful land of fairy before, if only with
=
the eyes of his imagination.



A sudden memory triggered in his mind,=
 of winter nights when his
grandfather used to read to him wondrous bedtime=
 stories about swords
and dragons, brilliant jewels and evil rings of power=
 that would twist
the will of men. About the blissful land of the Elves acr=
oss the Sea,
where they lived with the gods. Invisible lands of legend, tak=
en into
the realm of hidden things to shield them from those who in vain so=
ught
immortality.



Alvin forced himself to remember, and the name po=
pped into his head. Aman.



He smiled in wonder while the ra=
dio crackled and urged him to enter
the Station. Then the hair on his nape =
prickled in warning and
reluctantly he took his eyes off the lands of Aman.=




Out of the West a Shadow was rising. Alvin watched in fascination =
as
tendrils of inky darkness slowly began to swallow the stars, one by one.=

--

Alvin: From a medieval form of the Old English name =
=C3=86Llfwine ("elf-friend").



-- ~oOo~

Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or=
g


--0016e6d99a98492228047edca0be--


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From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: Revitalizing a Second Age Community
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uNw0Rj_102ZPoo1w_CebDbpuXr7TwJOWyaaNCspfcvkdjL4ZbLF8
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Hi, all,

Celeritas, who is not an SWG member, posted on another list yesterday about
a Second Age community that she is trying to revive. Since I know we have a
fan or two of the Second Age in SWG ;), I asked her permission to cross-post
her announcement here as well.

--

This is an open request for a Livejournal Community dedicated to the tail
end of the Second Age.  It originally started out as a spinoff of Helge
Fauskanger's (of Ardalambion fame) take on what it would take to dramatize
the Akallabeth for the cinema.  A few fans who decided that moping about
Fauskanger's inactivity would accomplish no good set up the community to
discuss their own takes on these ideas.  The comm quickly died, but those of
us who remained wanted to revive it and hopefully inject it with fresh
blood.

Since I'm the one who's actually involved in fandom, I said I'd try to get
word out to those who might be interested in discussing the Second Age with
like- (or not so like-) minded individuals.  As such, I'm okay with letting
the community evolve from *just* a "how would this look on the screen"
community to one that's more interested in just discussing the various
characters, plots, and thematic elements of the Second Age and particularly
the Akallabeth.  The community can be found at allbentroads.livejournal.com,
and we'd love to see you there!


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0016e6d56652b2047d047edee3cf
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, all,

Celeritas, who is not an SWG member, posted on another list=
 yesterday about a Second Age community that she is trying to revive. Since=
 I know we have a fan or two of the Second Age in SWG ;), I asked her permi=
ssion to cross-post her announcement here as well.


--

T=
his is an open request for a Livejournal Community dedicated to
the tail en=
d of the Second Age. =C2=A0It originally started out as a spinoff
of Helge =
Fauskanger's (of Ardalambion fame) take on what it would take
to dramat=
ize the Akallabeth for the cinema. =C2=A0A few fans who decided
that moping=
 about Fauskanger's inactivity would accomplish no good set
up the comm=
unity to discuss their own takes on these ideas. =C2=A0The comm
quickly die=
d, but those of us who remained wanted to revive it and
hopefully inject it=
 with fresh blood.



Since I'm the one who'=
s actually involved in
fandom, I said I'd try to get word out to those =
who might be interested
in discussing the Second Age with like- (or not so =
like-) minded
individuals. =C2=A0As such, I'm okay with letting the com=
munity evolve from just=C2=A0a
"how would this look on the scre=
en" community to one that's more
interested in just discussing the=
 various characters, plots, and
thematic elements of the Second Age and par=
ticularly the Akallabeth.
=C2=A0The community can be found at allbentroads.livejour=
nal.com, and we'd love to see you there!

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund

http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters=
guild.org


--0016e6d56652b2047d047edee3cf--


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From: Alassante7 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Revitalizing a Second Age Community
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That's great! I'm not really knowledgeable enough about the 2nd Age as far =
as the=C2=A0Edain go (the N=C3=BAmenor section gets all muddled in my brain=
! Too many Tar and Az names lol) but I've got a lot of interest in Celebrim=
bor and other elves in Eregion plus=C2=A0a little bit of knowledge about th=
e=C2=A0other Second Age elves. Maybe if I join this community I'll get stra=
ight all those N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3rean Men.





~~**~~
I warn you, if you bor=
e me, I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 
JRR Tolkien
=C2=A0




=C2=A0..=C2=B7=
*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- 
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=
=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:-

=
--- On Fri, 2/5/10, Dawn Felagund  wrote:


From: D=
awn Felagund 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] R=
evitalizing a Second Age Community
To: "SWG" 
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 1:47 PM


=C2=A0 



Hi, all,
=

Celeritas, who is not an SWG member, posted on another list yesterday abou=
t a Second Age community that she is trying to revive. Since I know we have=
 a fan or two of the Second Age in SWG ;), I asked her permission to cross-=
post her announcement here as well.

--


This is an open request for a Liv=
ejournal Community dedicated to the tail end of the Second Age. =C2=A0It or=
iginally started out as a spinoff of Helge Fauskanger's (of Ardalambion fam=
e) take on what it would take to dramatize the Akallabeth for the cinema. =
=C2=A0A few fans who decided that moping about Fauskanger's inactivity woul=
d accomplish no good set up the community to discuss their own takes on the=
se ideas. =C2=A0The comm quickly died, but those of us who remained wanted =
to revive it and hopefully inject it with fresh blood.


Since I'm the one =
who's actually involved in fandom, I said I'd try to get word out to those =
who might be interested in discussing the Second Age with like- (or not so =
like-) minded individuals. =C2=A0As such, I'm okay with letting the communi=
ty evolve from just=C2=A0a "how would this look on the screen" community to=
 one that's more interested in just discussing the various characters, plot=
s, and thematic elements of the Second Age and particularly the Akallabeth.=
 =C2=A0The community can be found at allbentroads. livejournal. com, and we=
'd love to see you there!

-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net=
/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org








   =
   
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That's great! I'm not really knowledgeable en=
ough about the 2nd Age as far as the Edain go (the N=C3=BAmenor sectio=
n gets all muddled in my brain! Too many Tar and Az names lol) but I've got=
 a lot of interest in Celebrimbor and other elves in Eregion plus a li=
ttle bit of knowledge about the other Second Age elves. Maybe if I joi=
n this community I'll get straight all those N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3rean Men.
<=
BR>

=


~~**~~


=
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.  =



JRR Tolkien


 










 ..=
=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))   -:=C2=A6:- 
        =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4&n=
bsp; .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))  -:|:- 
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante=
 .. <=
/STRONG>=C2=BA=C2=B0
  &nb=
sp; -:=C2=A6:-    ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|:-


--=
- On Fri, 2/5/10, Dawn Felagund  wrote:



From: Dawn Felagund 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Revitalizing a Second=
 Age Community
To: "SWG" Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 1:47 PM



  



Hi=
, all,

Celeritas, who is not an SWG member, posted on another list y=
esterday about a Second Age community that she is trying to revive. Since I=
 know we have a fan or two of the Second Age in SWG ;), I asked her permiss=
ion to cross-post her announcement here as well.

--



Thi=
s is an open request for a Livejournal Community dedicated to the tail end =
of the Second Age.  It originally started out as a spinoff of Helge Fa=
uskanger's (of Ardalambion fame) take on what it would take to dramatize th=
e Akallabeth for the cinema.  A few fans who decided that moping about=
 Fauskanger's inactivity would accomplish no good set up the community to d=
iscuss their own takes on these ideas.  The comm quickly died, but tho=
se of us who remained wanted to revive it and hopefully inject it with fres=
h blood.





Since I'm the one who's actually involv=
ed in fandom, I said I'd try to get word out to those who might be interest=
ed in discussing the Second Age with like- (or not so like-) minded individ=
uals.  As such, I'm okay with letting the community evolve from jus=
t a "how would this look on the screen" community to one that's mo=
re interested in just discussing the various characters, plots, and themati=
c elements of the Second Age and particularly the Akallabeth.  The com=
munity can be found at allbentroads. livejournal. com, and we'd lo=
ve to see you there!


-- 
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund=

http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild
 .org



      
--0-1057491884-1265396630=:59472--


From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010
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From: "Doc Bushwell" 
Subject: Re: Revitalizing a Second Age Community
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=rntthbFnPiGbxp0G9hrAGB6a9C29cp_M3q5Gz1BXcHFY1E-XRDNHmh4G
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With a somewhat less busy afternoon than usual here in the Turret of Pharma=
-dur, I took a look at this community.  As an aficionado of the Second Age =
in multiple settings (hey, my Dark Muse was a big player throughout), it ha=
s some appeal, but I am circumspect with regard to how what might be called=
 heretical interpretations (albeit canon-informed) of the legendarium would=
 be received there.  It looks like it could be fun, but I have to wonder at=
 the utility of such an exercise when the Tolkien Estate has a lock-down on=
 intellectual property pertaining to The Silmarillion.  

Then I took a loo=
k at Helge's script.  With all due respect, all I'll say is it needs some w=
ork.

Consider this a caveat emptor for my fellow SWG Second Age fans.


--=
- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund  wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
> 
> Celeritas, who is not an SWG member, posted o=
n another list yesterday about
> a Second Age community that she is trying =
to revive. Since I know we have a
> fan or two of the Second Age in SWG ;),=
 I asked her permission to cross-post
> her announcement here as well.
> 
>=
 --
> 
> This is an open request for a Livejournal Community dedicated to t=
he tail
> end of the Second Age.  It originally started out as a spinoff of=
 Helge
> Fauskanger's (of Ardalambion fame) take on what it would take to d=
ramatize
> the Akallabeth for the cinema.  A few fans who decided that mopi=
ng about
> Fauskanger's inactivity would accomplish no good set up the comm=
unity to
> discuss their own takes on these ideas.  The comm quickly died, =
but those of
> us who remained wanted to revive it and hopefully inject it =
with fresh
> blood.
> 
> Since I'm the one who's actually involved in fando=
m, I said I'd try to get
> word out to those who might be interested in dis=
cussing the Second Age with
> like- (or not so like-) minded individuals.  =
As such, I'm okay with letting
> the community evolve from *just* a "how wo=
uld this look on the screen"
> community to one that's more interested in j=
ust discussing the various
> characters, plots, and thematic elements of th=
e Second Age and particularly
> the Akallabeth.  The community can be found=
 at allbentroads.livejournal.com,
> and we'd love to see you there!
> 
> 
>=
 -- 
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
=
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
>




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From: Marta 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Revitalizing a Second Age Community
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=Wti45wuq7Cdfs6Wc9GveaM2koaNq15aTYhHFgBvvgyW3aG8UvJeZuw
X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva

Alassante7 wrote:
> That's great! I'm not really knowledgeable enough about the 2nd Age as far as the Edain go (the Númenor section gets all muddled in my brain! Too many Tar and Az names lol) but I've got a lot of interest in Celebrimbor and other elves in Eregion plus a little bit of knowledge about the other Second Age elves. Maybe if I join this community I'll get straight all those Númenórean Men.
>
>   

Hi Alassante,

What you said made me smile - I have to use note cards and family trees 
from a fan site to keep the "F elves" straight - Fingolfin, Finarfin, 
Feanor, Finrod, and all the rest. But the cast of Numenor comes much 
easier somehow. I don't know why, other than more interest. (My first 
love has always been Gondorians, and Numenoreans are their cultural 
ancestors of course.)

I am glad to see this community revitalized, too.

Marta


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From: Alassante7 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Revitalizing a Second Age Community
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=N_EaA3ZpUAOKKkxi0beqATVr2iwmPS_ptensk9wKSSCF4dh0EQ
X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7


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Oh I got my Fin's down. For some reason they were easier to learn. Tolkien =
made it really difficult to remember all of the names for each elf. 

For m=
en - I really hate Turin and part of it is because he had SO many different=
 names. Every time he screwed up, he changed his name. He was the first per=
son in Middle Earth to invent an 'alias'. =3D0) Or wait - would that be Sau=
ron and Morgoth?

~~**~~I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge=
.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien=C2=A0=C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=
=C2=A6:- 
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=
=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alass=
ante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=
=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:-

--- On Fri, 2/5/10, Marta  wrote:

From: Marta 
Subject: Re: [Sil=
marillionWritersGuild] Revitalizing a Second Age Community
To: Silmarillion=
WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 8:39 PM






=

=C2=A0



  


    
      
      
      Alassante7 wrote:

> That's great!=
 I'm not really knowledgeable enough about the 2nd Age as far as the Edain =
go (the N=C3=BAmenor section gets all muddled in my brain! Too many Tar and=
 Az names lol) but I've got a lot of interest in Celebrimbor and other elve=
s in Eregion plus a little bit of knowledge about the other Second Age elve=
s. Maybe if I join this community I'll get straight all those N=C3=BAmen=C3=
=B3rean Men.

>

>   



Hi Alassante,



What you said made me smile - I h=
ave to use note cards and family trees 

from a fan site to keep the "F elv=
es" straight - Fingolfin, Finarfin, 

Feanor, Finrod, and all the rest. But=
 the cast of Numenor comes much 

easier somehow. I don't know why, other t=
han more interest. (My first 

love has always been Gondorians, and Numenor=
eans are their cultural 

ancestors of course.)



I am glad to see this co=
mmunity revitalized, too.



Marta



    
     

    
    


 



  





=

      
--0-798747898-1265429264=:47495
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Oh I got my Fin's down. For some reason they =
were easier to learn. Tolkien made it really difficult to remember all of t=
he names for each elf. 

For men - I really hate Turin and part of it=
 is because he had SO many different names. Every time he screwed up, he ch=
anged his name. He was the first person in Middle Earth to invent an 'alias=
'. =3D0) Or wait - would that be Sauron and Morgoth?

~~**~~
I =
warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.  
JRR Tolkien
 
 .=
.=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))   -:=C2=A6:- 
        =C2=B8.=
=C2=B7=C2=B4  .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))  -:|:- 
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante<=
/font> .. =C2=BA=C2=B0
    -:=C2=A6:-    =
((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|:-
=



--- On Fri, 2/5/10, Marta
 &l=
t;marta.fandom@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Marta 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWr=
itersGuild] Revitalizing a Second Age Community
To: SilmarillionWritersG=
uild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 8:39 PM







 



=
    

      
      
      
Alassante7 wrote:

>=
; That's great! I'm not really knowledgeable enough about the 2nd Age as fa=
r as the Edain go (the N=C3=BAmenor section gets all muddled in my brain! T=
oo many Tar and Az names lol) but I've got a lot of interest in Celebrimbor=
 and other elves in Eregion plus a little bit of knowledge about the other =
Second Age elves. Maybe if I join this community I'll get straight all thos=
e N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3rean Men.

>

>   



Hi Alassante,
=



What you said made me smile - I have to use note cards and family tre=
es 

from a fan site to keep the "F elves" straight - Fingolfin, Finarfi=
n, 

Feanor, Finrod, and all the rest. But the cast of Numenor comes muc=
h 

easier somehow. I don't know why, other than more interest. (My firs=
t 

love has always been Gondorians, and Numenoreans are their cultural =


ancestors of course.)



I am glad to see this community revital=
ized, too.



Marta




    

     



 






      
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--- On Fri, 2/5/10, Doc Bushwell  wrote:


From: D=
oc Bushwell 
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re:=
 Revitalizing a Second Age Community
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogrou=
ps.com
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 2:38 PM






=A0It looks like it co=
uld be fun, but I have to wonder at the utility of such an exercise when th=
e Tolkien Estate has a lock-down on intellectual property pertaining to The=
 Silmarillion. 



=A0
... Lock-down? What do you mean?
=A0
- Rey
=A0


   =
   
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--- On Fri, 2/5/10, Doc Bushwell <=
I> wrote:


From: Doc Bushwell 
Subject: [Silmarillio=
nWritersGuild] Re: Revitalizing a Second Age Community
To: SilmarillionW=
ritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 2:38 PM
<=
BR>









 It looks like it could be fun, but I have to won=
der at the utility of such an exercise when the Tolkien Estate has a lock-d=
own on intellectual property pertaining to The Silmarillion. 




 


... Lock-down? What do you mean?


&nb=
sp;


- Rey


 



      
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Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Revitalizing a Second Age Community
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Nope. Not Sauron and Morgoth. They never quite needed an alias... except wh=
en Sauron wanted to deceive the Elves in the Second Age. So I guess that wa=
s really Turin. :D
=C2=A0
I never completely understand all those names of =
the Numenorian rulers too... But I got the Elves right. I am never good wit=
h family trees. That said, the line of the Gondorian kings also baffles me.=
 Arnor's not so... And I am not that acquainted with the Rangers'.

I suppo=
se I had better not try to join this community, then. *scratch head* I know=
 too little of Second Age... and do not really like it. Besides, LJ gives m=
e pains. *grimace*
=C2=A0
- Rey
=C2=A0

--- On Fri, 2/5/10, Alassante7  wrote:


From: Alassante7 
Subject=
: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Revitalizing a Second Age Community
To: Si=
lmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 11:0=
7 PM


=C2=A0 







Oh I got my Fin's down. For some reason they were eas=
ier to learn. Tolkien made it really difficult to remember all of the names=
 for each elf. 

For men - I really hate Turin and part of it is because he=
 had SO many different names. Every time he screwed up, he changed his name=
. He was the first person in Middle Earth to invent an 'alias'. =3D0) Or wa=
it - would that be Sauron and Morgoth?





~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore =
me, I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 
JRR Tolkien
=C2=A0




=C2=A0..=C2=B7*=
=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- 
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=
=A0-:|:-=C2=A0
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
-:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:-

--- =
On Fri, 2/5/10, Marta  wrote:


From: Marta 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] Revitalizing a=
 Second Age Community
To: SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com
Date: =
Friday, February 5, 2010, 8:39 PM


=C2=A0 

Alassante7 wrote:
> That's gre=
at! I'm not really knowledgeable enough about the 2nd Age as far as the Eda=
in go (the N=C3=BAmenor section gets all muddled in my brain! Too many Tar =
and Az names lol) but I've got a lot of interest in Celebrimbor and other e=
lves in Eregion plus a little bit of knowledge about the other Second Age e=
lves. Maybe if I join this community I'll get straight all those N=C3=BAmen=
=C3=B3rean Men.
>
> 

Hi Alassante,

What you said made me smile - I have t=
o use note cards and family trees 
from a fan site to keep the "F elves" st=
raight - Fingolfin, Finarfin, 
Feanor, Finrod, and all the rest. But the ca=
st of Numenor comes much 
easier somehow. I don't know why, other than more=
 interest. (My first 
love has always been Gondorians, and Numenoreans are =
their cultural 
ancestors of course.)

I am glad to see this community revi=
talized, too.

Marta









      
--0-530011595-1265458482=:34399
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=

Nope. Not Sauron and Morgoth. They never=
 quite needed an alias... except when Sauron wanted to deceive the Elves in=
 the Second Age. So I guess that was really Turin. :D


 

I never completely understand all those names of the Numenorian rul=
ers too... But I got the Elves right. I am never good with family trees. Th=
at said, the line of the Gondorian kings also baffles me. Arnor's not so...=
 And I am not that acquainted with the Rangers'.


I suppose I=
 had better not try to join this community, then. *scratch head* I know too=
 little of Second Age... and do not really like it. Besides, LJ gives me pa=
ins. *grimace*


 


- Rey


 

<=
DIV>
--- On Fri, 2/5/10, Alassante7  wrote:



From: Alassante7 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Revitalizin=
g a Second Age Community
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.comDate: Friday, February 5, 2010, 11:07 PM



  









Oh I got my Fin's down. For some reason they were easier to learn. Tolkien=
 made it really difficult to remember all of the names for each elf. 
For men - I really hate Turin and part of it is because he had SO many di=
fferent names. Every time he screwed up, he changed his name. He was the fi=
rst person in Middle Earth to invent an 'alias'. =3D0) Or wait - would that=
 be Sauron and Morgoth?









~~**~~


I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. =
; 


JRR Tolkien


&n=
bsp;










 ..=C2=
=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))   -:=C2=A6:- =

        =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4 =
; .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))  -:|:- 
=
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante<=
FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> .. =C2=BA=C2=B0
  &nbs=
p; -:=C2=A6:-    ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|:-


---=
 On Fri, 2/5/10, Marta  wrote:=




From: =
Marta 
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter s=
Guild] Revitalizing a Second Age Community
To: SilmarillionWriters Guild=
@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 8:39 PM



  



Alassante7 =
wrote:
> That's great! I'm not really knowledgeable enough about the =
2nd Age as far as the Edain go (the N=C3=BAmenor section gets all muddled i=
n my brain! Too many Tar and Az names lol) but I've got a lot of interest i=
n Celebrimbor and other elves in Eregion plus a little bit of knowledge abo=
ut the other Second Age elves. Maybe if I join this community I'll get stra=
ight all those N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3rean Men.
>
> 

Hi Alassan=
te,

What you said made me smile - I have to use note cards and famil=
y trees 
from a fan site to keep the "F elves" straight - Fingolfin, Fin=
arfin, 
Feanor, Finrod, and all the rest. But the cast of Numenor comes =
much 
easier somehow. I don't know why, other than more interest. (My fi=
rst 
love has always been Gondorians, and Numenoreans are their cultural=
 
ancestors of course.)

I am glad to see this community revitaliz=
ed,
 too.

Marta


--0-530011595-1265458482=:34399-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3104 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76294 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2010 12:19:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2010 12:19:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web112404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.137.26.133) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2010 12:19:31 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 40935 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Feb 2010 12:19:31 -0000 Message-ID: <352950.40796.qm@web112404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 4dYvTCQVM1nkxgBBqxldtHh_6jy9yj6EsBi_tKwhOT4gjOpMPEx92htcIcnWg5ptUJOYapnOcWWuy_c_bWpeo8VpMHDDli.s07ohrxG.M2V8CQCdGN.87jXpc7Ab7uHWSdPamZWTFOBJd7lZaghqIX3JZx9htw6LeNiFXrcmPpa1qEeheH9RcGrDGJblH92fhYIDx980mgwa9vA1UmKlrPCE1RdMryTuB10tt9iU3O1K0uL7ix0Vg5WIrYaklMG3JZaNHGviFWREaMkJoxQrOXVO4jiqcq1SMXb66F0xDGplgp9PI1g_0FHrihSInniSwvuRLwYIn_LS7iNMGj_AunfQWRQw6fUCHzTWXZoxDDLTT18Z_2yko8dbxzWDMXuDjgVXZBbJ4jQtoj7dcA2NSQQkDX1tIvPfjLyIfxyKdOsi3.xV3ZT9c.i0ElTElCNTdCSnXurmKZuKSPtWrtBdmcjNH2TSzlsygXnkFq7wzWMZN1_hC9m1A8gVaQpzsV9NUCsHGYarqdBDJ9Ed1kQjNaJhVpjVOLUkirxhgKIWC6ZKJ9x_REW08mygEEWT4cWmurPK41wEZOJA3Jj5usX4HlecGWEKxehFdUfztQ-- X-Received: from [125.160.224.46] by web112404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 04:19:30 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 04:19:30 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1850195417-1265458770=:40796" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: melissa chandra Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: "Within the Circles of the World" by Russandol X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=UFCx52FN-Mil17xDqU9Q1jfb9RBD7pyw5NDBP1wdmdx986JWhZA X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch --0-1850195417-1265458770=:40796 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- On Fri, 2/5/10, Dawn Felagund wrote: From:= Dawn Felagund Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild]= B2MeM 2010: "Within the Circles of the World" by Russandol To: "SWG" Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 11:05= AM =C2=A0 As we lead in to B2MeM 2010, the creators and moderators o= f the event will be sharing fiction and poetry that sets the scene for the = Final Battle. This first story, "Within the Circles of the World," was writ= ten by Russandol. If you're interested in participating or learning more ab= out B2MeM 2010, you can visit our website (http://www.silmaril lionwritersg= uild .org/b2mem2010/) or contact me. -- Within the Circles of the World b= y Russandol Alvin never failed to be awed by the sight that now spread un= der his feet. He had been trained to carry out his tasks as quickly and eff= iciently as possible, given the risks of even the most trivial routine main= tenance mission outside the Station, but for a few seconds he paused in his= spacewalk to take in the illuminated crescent that spanned before him. The= blue and white were almost blinding in their richness against the dark fir= mament. Then he looked beyond the planet and for a handful of heartbeats he= enjoyed the view that few could claim to have seen with their very eyes: t= he glory of the starred sky undimmed by the Earth=E2=80=99s veil. Right und= erneath him the giant jewelled mosaic of clustered lights outlined the cont= ours of inhabited land and competed in radiance with the distant stars. In = his current position he could easily make out the profiles of Southern Indi= a and Sri Lanka, studded in diamond-like sparks. >From up there, the Earth s= till seemed beautiful, serene, perfect, unlike the overcrowded, polluted pl= anet it had become. Old archive pictures had shown him how there had once e= xisted large patches of vivid emerald, now shrunk to tiny specks; jungles a= nd forests had been all but replaced by the dull brown and ochre of encroac= hing deserts and wastelands. The silence and solemnity of space was highly = conducive to all sorts of philosophic ruminations. In Alvin=E2=80=99s mind = there was no doubt that mankind may have already reached the point of no re= turn, from which their planet, too exploited, wounded, and marred beyond sa= lvation would be unable to recover. He shook his head inside the helmet tha= t separated him from vacuum and death and forced himself to concentrate on = the task at hand. Suddenly, the Evening Star, Venus, which on this particul= ar day was precursor of dawn, flared like a beacon. How can it be? It shoul= d not be visible yet. Further to the North Orion, the Hunter of the Sky, se= emed to pulse crimson as in response. Alvin blinked hard, stunned. He tried= to persuade himself that a trick of the light, perhaps glare on the helmet= visor, had cheated his eyes or that he had imagined it all. But deep withi= n he was certain that he had witnessed a sign of some kind. Resolutely he w= aved it all aside. This was hardly the time or place to muse about such str= ange phenomena. Cautiously he anchored himself to the mast of the antenna i= n need of repairs and radioed the Station Control to check in. Then he set = the robots to work. While he supervised their progress he decided he would = not mention what he had seen. If he was thought to suffer from hallucinatio= ns he would be grounded and assigned to mindless administrative tasks. Then= , as the station orbited the Earth, dawn broke over the curve of the planet= and bathed him in glorious daylight. Before he began to make his way back = to the triple hatch through which he would enter the station he swept his e= yes around him one last time. To the North-East and below his position, ove= r the Caribbean, he noticed what he could only describe as a huge transluce= nt, slightly glimmering mist, definitely far above where clouds should end.= He looked again more carefully, puzzled. The strange haze seemed to flicke= r, as if it would melt in the rays of the glaring sun. Mesmerised, he watch= ed. Only a week before he had been ordered to sleep more hours. He had obey= ed the doctor=E2=80=99s orders. Now he was certain that this was no trick o= f a sleep-deprived mind. Nevertheless he doubted his eyes, and cursed his i= nability to rub them. Then he realised that each flicker made the glowing f= og slightly more visible. Like a mirage turning solid. After several second= s of hesitation he finally radioed Control and asked if there were any repo= rts of large debris or perhaps an unreported satellite in the area, even th= ough regulations forbid such proximity. The answer from his colleagues was = negative on both counts and he was about to sign off when he heard warning = beeps through the transmission. All instruments had begun to give strange r= eadings, well off the accepted tolerance levels, and they suggested the pre= sence of a huge mass in the vicinity. Everything seemed to indicate the imp= ossible, that somehow it had materialised out of nothingness. Alvin was sum= moned inside at once, as part of the emergency protocol that dealt with a p= otential collision. But Alvin was not in a hurry to obey the command, and i= nstead turned down the volume of his radio headphones. Whatever it was: mir= age, solar disturbance, hallucination or alien spaceship with sinister inte= ntions to invade Earth, it was rapidly gaining in detail and losing its tra= nsparency, though the strange silver radiance had not diminished. And then,= when all of a sudden the vision became sharp and clear to his eyes, Alvin = was awed at the splendour and beauty of the revealed panorama, impossibly p= erched between Earth and sky, defying all laws of nature, or at least those= that were known and understood to mankind. But he purposefully chose not t= o question the feasibility of what was before him. Instead he suspended all= disbelief, as he did when he immersed himself in a virtual reality session= during his leisure time, and studied every minute detail of the scene befo= re him. First of all he noticed the city, its spires and towers glimmering = in iridescent hues, as if made of mother of pearl. Below them, magnificent = buildings of white stone, gardens, courtyards and squares in which he knew,= more than saw, people were gathering to look up anxiously at the sky. Alvi= n could no longer recognise any familiar coastlines underneath the path of = the Station. Instead, as it hurtled Eastwards on its orbit, he found himsel= f floating over wooded hills, green pastures, forests and lakes. Beyond the= city stood an immense range of snow-peaked mountains. Through a gap he esp= ied white shores and beyond, in the distance, an island with a white tower,= on a sapphire sea that made his heart long for the cry of seagulls. He fou= nd himself weeping at the sight. =E2=80=98Who are you? What are you?=E2=80= =99 he cried silently. There was something familiar; he knew he had seen th= is alien country, this peaceful land of fairy before, if only with the eyes= of his imagination. A sudden memory triggered in his mind, of winter night= s when his grandfather used to read to him wondrous bedtime stories about s= words and dragons, brilliant jewels and evil rings of power that would twis= t the will of men. About the blissful land of the Elves across the Sea, whe= re they lived with the gods. Invisible lands of legend, taken into the real= m of hidden things to shield them from those who in vain sought immortality= . Alvin forced himself to remember, and the name popped into his head. Aman= . He smiled in wonder while the radio crackled and urged him to enter the S= tation. Then the hair on his nape prickled in warning and reluctantly he to= ok his eyes off the lands of Aman. Out of the West a Shadow was rising. Alv= in watched in fascination as tendrils of inky darkness slowly began to swal= low the stars, one by one.-- Alvin: From a medieval form of the Old Englis= h name =C3=86Llfwine ("elf-friend"). =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Whoaa! One great rendi= tion! Quite unexpected, yet it explained so much... =C2=A0 And I never knew= that Alvin somehow means "Elf-friend." LOL Blessed be those who are named = thus. :D ;) =C2=A0 - Rey --0-1850195417-1265458770=:40796 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= /table>
--0-1850195417-1265458770=:40796-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3105 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46749 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2010 00:58:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2010 00:58:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2010 00:58:40 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2010 00:58:01 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2010 00:58:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:58:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Revitalizing a Second Age Community X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=OWfltxA8kOgxcga2RiQKHtSocw6Tz5HkSYdOtTkNq_Lo-wg31gO2uy-KID-MwckDVvTUlw X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel I'm pretty much in agreement with Pandemonium here. I'm not realy sure how = I feel about the script. This is also not the first time someone has come u= p with the idea of an Akallabeth script. There's actually some industry scr= eenplay writers I know through my costuming work that have already written = screenplays for a Akallabeth movie. But because the Tolkien Estate hasn't r= eleased the rights to the Silm, they haven't shopped it around yet. I know = about it because one of them actually consulted me a few times on it. This = is just the first time a script has been presented online in an LJ communit= y within the fandom. So the idea's been floating around for quite some time= now and I've seen various incarnations of it. I too am curious how differ= ent, namely heretical, interpretations of canon would be welcome there. I k= now my Numenorean canon in my sleep and have the various households memoriz= ed, so without a doubt, I know my Numenorean canon. If I'm presenting resea= rch on them, that's one thing, but fandom interpretations I don't follow qu= ite the same rigid structure. Thanks for posting the link though! And folk= s choose to go, I hope they have fun! Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersG= uild@yahoogroups.com, "Doc Bushwell" wrote: > > With a so= mewhat less busy afternoon than usual here in the Turret of Pharma-dur, I t= ook a look at this community. As an aficionado of the Second Age in multip= le settings (hey, my Dark Muse was a big player throughout), it has some ap= peal, but I am circumspect with regard to how what might be called heretica= l interpretations (albeit canon-informed) of the legendarium would be recei= ved there. It looks like it could be fun, but I have to wonder at the util= ity of such an exercise when the Tolkien Estate has a lock-down on intellec= tual property pertaining to The Silmarillion. > > Then I took a look at = Helge's script. With all due respect, all I'll say is it needs some work. = > > Consider this a caveat emptor for my fellow SWG Second Age fans. > > = > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > > Hi, all, > > > > Celeritas, who is not an SWG member= , posted on another list yesterday about > > a Second Age community that sh= e is trying to revive. Since I know we have a > > fan or two of the Second = Age in SWG ;), I asked her permission to cross-post > > her announcement he= re as well. > > > > -- > > > > This is an open request for a Livejournal = Community dedicated to the tail > > end of the Second Age. It originally s= tarted out as a spinoff of Helge > > Fauskanger's (of Ardalambion fame) tak= e on what it would take to dramatize > > the Akallabeth for the cinema. A = few fans who decided that moping about > > Fauskanger's inactivity would ac= complish no good set up the community to > > discuss their own takes on the= se ideas. The comm quickly died, but those of > > us who remained wanted t= o revive it and hopefully inject it with fresh > > blood. > > > > Since I'= m the one who's actually involved in fandom, I said I'd try to get > > word= out to those who might be interested in discussing the Second Age with > >= like- (or not so like-) minded individuals. As such, I'm okay with lettin= g > > the community evolve from *just* a "how would this look on the screen= " > > community to one that's more interested in just discussing the variou= s > > characters, plots, and thematic elements of the Second Age and partic= ularly > > the Akallabeth. The community can be found at allbentroads.live= journal.com, > > and we'd love to see you there! > > > > > > -- > > ~oOo= ~ > > Dawn Felagund > > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > > htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3106 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55160 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2010 14:13:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2010 14:13:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2010 14:13:03 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2010 14:08:10 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2010 14:08:10 -0000 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:08:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re: Revitalizing a Second Age Community X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=vAEpugFxsgmfxRfFwbh9-_MqBxZvPrNFmwcRmKkvb6h7JFjilpKgAGc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Finally a quiet afternoon here, so I had a quick looksie. --- In Silmarill= ionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > = > Hi, all, > > Celeritas, who is not an SWG member, posted on another list= yesterday about > a Second Age community that she is trying to revive. Sin= ce I know we have a > fan or two of the Second Age in SWG ;), I asked her p= ermission to cross-post > her announcement here as well. It looked to me l= ike a fun group with second age lovers where there is plenty of room to mus= e about things and come to fascinating insights and one might leave with a = plotbunny or twenty. I really cannot host more bunnies here than I already = have! Alassante, I am curious how your good looking line up of those Numen= orean men would look like to you ;) Just another way of keeping all those n= ames straight in a most entertaining way. As for script musings, from what= I saw, it ain't as big or won't make much impression on the estate as the = whole 'make the Hobbit happen' campaign. After all many fans enjoyed the fa= n movie Born of Hope oodles (and the estate let it happen as far as I know)= , so I am a tad confused why chatter and a cast roll discussion would even = remotely provoke a reaction from the professor's estate. In order to make A= ddleshard Goddard even move his hand is to cut in on their own revenue and = such a small and cozy community won't make that happen. Just my 2 eurocen= ts , Rhapsody (who is saving money for the History of the Hobbit) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3107 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96018 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2010 18:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2010 18:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2010 18:45:51 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 81052 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Feb 2010 18:45:50 -0000 Message-ID: <852488.81048.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: dIqxAoEVM1nJQNvs7gz1.rSKu0RiqZzmY0oc1bjq6y6poJ6jMgc4TPiPxf5eHQHcT5.divvedcA.YSsbfbf3k_44uFc7DZfLVSYygz9A7vcr_dV4p1sQF0Kj.k9c27mxysrZpeIaDAga5611oJ_I.KumAt._Jar1fr2yO1Pdu8ZJrWmbvyBXziSrN6dTPm3olp2z4kV2gHC12BuGYhmY2IEucAXfEnitiHHWqn4hSaUVrtXC8P8tfPy._rfwRda9xq_WD.dpaqG3IUWpvNbe1WrlG.alQBy0JcuPf5.b65Kt0L_tFhGNMF56QSui9Z3L69DlL5HxjYb2lZeN X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:45:50 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:45:50 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-121926437-1266000350=:81048" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Revitalizing a Second Age Community X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=wfRJ23KZ_f0sCkPqpit-HWfaY0X7yiwO_pK5hEl_IAiW0ntCOA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-121926437-1266000350=:81048 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alassante, I am curious how your good looking line up of those Numenorean m= en would look like to you ;) Just another way of keeping all those names st= raight in a most entertaining way =C2=A0 That might be why I remember the F= eanorians so well! I had pictures picked out for each one. ~~**~~ I wa= rn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C2=A0 = =C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4= =C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 =C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2= =B0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7= =C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- --- On Fri, 2/12/10, rhapsody_the_bard wrote: From: rhapsody_the_bard Subject: [S= ilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Revitalizing a Second Age Community To: Silmar= illionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 9:08 AM= =C2=A0 Finally a quiet afternoon here, so I had a quick looksie. --= - In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, all, > > Celeritas, who is not an SWG member, poste= d on another list yesterday about > a Second Age community that she is tryi= ng to revive. Since I know we have a > fan or two of the Second Age in SWG = ;), I asked her permission to cross-post > her announcement here as well. = It looked to me like a fun group with second age lovers where there is plen= ty of room to muse about things and come to fascinating insights and one mi= ght leave with a plotbunny or twenty. I really cannot host more bunnies her= e than I already have! Alassante, I am curious how your good looking line = up of those Numenorean men would look like to you ;) Just another way of ke= eping all those names straight in a most entertaining way. As for script m= usings, from what I saw, it ain't as big or won't make much impression on t= he estate as the whole 'make the Hobbit happen' campaign. After all many fa= ns enjoyed the fan movie Born of Hope oodles (and the estate let it happen = as far as I know), so I am a tad confused why chatter and a cast roll discu= ssion would even remotely provoke a reaction from the professor's estate. I= n order to make Addleshard Goddard even move his hand is to cut in on their= own revenue and such a small and cozy community won't make that happen. = Just my 2 eurocents , Rhapsody (who is saving money for the History of the= Hobbit) --0-121926437-1266000350=:81048 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


--- On Fri, 2/5/10, Dawn Felagund = wrote:
=
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: [Silmari= llionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: "Within the Circles of the World" by Russand= ol
To: "SWG"
Date: F= riday, February 5, 2010, 11:05 AM

 
As we lead in= to B2MeM 2010, the creators and moderators of the event will be sharing fi= ction and poetry that sets the scene for the Final Battle. This first story= , "Within the Circles of the World," was written by Russandol. If you're in= terested in participating or learning more about B2MeM 2010, you can visit = our website (http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/b= 2mem2010/) or contact me.

--

Within the Circles of the= World
by Russandol

Alv= in never failed to be awed by the sight that now spread under his feet. He = had been trained to carry out his tasks as quickly and efficiently as possi= ble, given the risks of even the most trivial routine maintenance mission o= utside the Station, but for a few seconds he paused in his spacewalk to tak= e in the illuminated crescent that spanned before him. The blue and white w= ere almost blinding in their richness against the dark firmament.
Then he looked beyond the planet and for a handful of heartbeats he enjoy= ed the view that few could claim to have seen with their very eyes: the glo= ry of the starred sky undimmed by the Earth=E2=80=99s veil.
Righ= t underneath him the giant jewelled mosaic of clustered lights outlined the= contours of inhabited land and competed in radiance with the distant stars= . In his current position he could easily make out the profiles of Southern= India and Sri Lanka, studded in diamond-like sparks.
From up th= ere, the Earth still seemed beautiful, serene, perfect, unlike the overcrow= ded, polluted planet it had become. Old archive pictures had shown him how = there had once existed large patches of vivid emerald, now shrunk to tiny s= pecks; jungles and forests had been all but replaced by the dull brown and = ochre of encroaching deserts and wastelands.
The silence and sol= emnity of space was highly conducive to all sorts of philosophic rumination= s. In Alvin=E2=80=99s mind there was no doubt that mankind may have already= reached the point of no return, from which their planet, too exploited, wo= unded, and marred beyond salvation would be unable to recover. He shook his= head inside the helmet that separated him from vacuum and death and forced= himself to concentrate on the task at hand.
Suddenly, the Eveni= ng Star, Venus, which on this particular day was precursor of dawn, flared = like a beacon. How can it be? It should not be visible yet. Further = to the North Orion, the Hunter of the Sky, seemed to pulse crimson as in re= sponse.
Alvin blinked hard= , stunned. He tried to persuade himself that a trick of the light, perhaps = glare on the helmet visor, had cheated his eyes or that he had imagined it = all. But deep within he was certain that he had witnessed a sign of some ki= nd.
Resolutely he waved it all aside. This was hardly the time o= r place to muse about such strange phenomena. Cautiously he anchored himsel= f to the mast of the antenna in need of repairs and radioed the Station Con= trol to check in. Then he set the robots to work. While he supervised their= progress he decided he would not mention what he had seen. If he was thoug= ht to suffer from hallucinations he would be grounded and assigned to mindl= ess administrative tasks.
Then, as the station orbited the Earth= , dawn broke over the curve of the planet and bathed him in glorious daylig= ht. Before he began to make his way back to the triple hatch through which = he would enter the station he swept his eyes around him one last time. To t= he North-East and below his position, over the Caribbean, he noticed what h= e could only describe as a huge translucent, slightly glimmering mist, defi= nitely far above where clouds should end. He looked again more carefully, p= uzzled.
The strange haze seemed to flicker, as if it would melt = in the rays of the glaring sun. Mesmerised, he watched. Only a week before = he had been ordered to sleep more hours. He had obeyed the doctor=E2=80=99s= orders. Now he was certain that this was no trick of a sleep-deprived mind= . Nevertheless he doubted his eyes, and cursed his inability to rub them.
Then he realised that each flicker made the glowing fog slightly = more visible. Like a mirage turning solid.
After several seconds= of hesitation he finally radioed Control and asked if there were any repor= ts of large debris or perhaps an unreported satellite in the area, even tho= ugh regulations forbid such proximity. The answer from his colleagues was n= egative on both counts and he was about to sign off when he heard warning b= eeps through the transmission.
All instruments had begun to give= strange readings, well off the accepted tolerance levels, and they suggest= ed the presence of a huge mass in the vicinity. Everything seemed to indica= te the impossible, that somehow it had materialised out of nothingness. Alv= in was summoned inside at once, as part of the emergency protocol that deal= t with a potential collision.
But Alvin was not in a hurry to ob= ey the command, and instead turned down the volume of his radio headphones.= Whatever it was: mirage, solar disturbance, hallucination or alien spacesh= ip with sinister intentions to invade Earth, it was rapidly gaining in deta= il and losing its transparency, though the strange silver radiance had not = diminished.
And then, when all of a sudden the vision became sha= rp and clear to his eyes, Alvin was awed at the splendour and beauty of the= revealed panorama, impossibly perched between Earth and sky, defying all l= aws of nature, or at least those that were known and understood to mankind.= But he purposefully chose not to question the feasibility of what was befo= re him. Instead he suspended all disbelief, as he did when he immersed hims= elf in a virtual reality session during his leisure time, and studied every= minute detail of the scene before him.
First of all he noticed = the city, its spires and towers glimmering in iridescent hues, as if made o= f mother of pearl. Below them, magnificent buildings of white stone, garden= s, courtyards and squares in which he knew, more than saw, people were gath= ering to look up anxiously at the sky.
Alvin could no longer rec= ognise any familiar coastlines underneath the path of the Station. Instead,= as it hurtled Eastwards on its orbit, he found himself floating over woode= d hills, green pastures, forests and lakes. Beyond the city stood an immens= e range of snow-peaked mountains. Through a gap he espied white shores and = beyond, in the distance, an island with a white tower, on a sapphire sea th= at made his heart long for the cry of seagulls.
He found himself= weeping at the sight. =E2=80=98Who are you? What are you?=E2=80=99 he cried silently. There was something familiar; he knew he had seen this= alien country, this peaceful land of fairy before, if only with the eyes o= f his imagination.
A sudden memory triggered in his mind, of win= ter nights when his grandfather used to read to him wondrous bedtime storie= s about swords and dragons, brilliant jewels and evil rings of power that w= ould twist the will of men. About the blissful land of the Elves across the= Sea, where they lived with the gods. Invisible lands of legend, taken into= the realm of hidden things to shield them from those who in vain sought im= mortality.
Alvin forced himself to remember, and the name popped= into his head. Aman.
He smiled in wonder while the rad= io crackled and urged him to enter the Station. Then the hair on his nape p= rickled in warning and reluctantly he took his eyes off the lands of Aman.<= /DIV>
Out of the West a Shadow was rising. Alvin watched in fascinatio= n as tendrils of inky darkness slowly began to swallow the stars, one by on= e.
--

Alvin: From a medieval form of the Old English nam= e =C3=86Llfwine ("elf-friend").

 
 =
Whoaa! One great rendition! Quite unexpected, yet it explained = so much...
 
And I never knew that Alvin somehow= means "Elf-friend." LOL Blessed be those who are named thus. :D ;)
<= DIV> 
- Rey
=
Alassante, I am curious how your goo= d looking line up of those Numenorean men would look like to you ;) Just an= other way of keeping all those names straight in a most entertaining way
 
That might be why I remember the Feanorians= so well! I had pictures picked out for each one.

~~**~~
I warn you,= if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
<= EM>
 ..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8= ))   -:=C2=A6:-
  &= nbsp;     =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4  .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8= =C2=A8))  -:|:- 
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. <= SPAN style=3D"COLOR: rgb(255,0,127); FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms">Alassante<= /SPAN><= B> .. =C2=BA=C2=B0
    -:=C2=A6:- &nbs= p;  ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|:-
=

--- On Fri, 2/12/10, rh= apsody_the_bard wrote:

From: rhapsody_the_bard
S= ubject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Revitalizing a Second Age Community<= BR>To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 1= 2, 2010, 9:08 AM

 
Finally a quiet afternoon here= , so I had a quick looksie.

--- In SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, Dawn Felagund &= lt;DawnFelagund@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
> C= eleritas, who is not an SWG member, posted on another list yesterday about<= BR>> a Second Age community that she is trying to revive. Since I know w= e have a
> fan or two of the Second Age in SWG ;), I asked her permis= sion to cross-post
> her announcement here as well.

It looked = to me like a fun group with second age lovers where there is plenty of room= to muse about things and come to fascinating insights and one might leave = with a plotbunny or twenty. I really cannot host more bunnies here than I a= lready have!

Alassante, I am curious how your good looking line up = of those Numenorean men would look like to you ;) Just another way of keepi= ng all those names straight in a most entertaining way.

As for scrip= t musings, from what I saw, it ain't as big or won't make much impression o= n the estate as the whole 'make the Hobbit happen' campaign. After all many= fans enjoyed the fan movie Born of Hope oodles (and the estate let it happ= en as far as I know), so I am a tad confused why chatter and a cast roll di= scussion would even remotely provoke a reaction from the professor's estate= . In order to make Addleshard Goddard even move his hand is to cut in on th= eir own revenue and such a small and cozy community won't make that happen.=

Just my 2 eurocents ,

Rhapsody
(who is saving money for = the History of the Hobbit)


--0-121926437-1266000350=:81048-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3108 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27037 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2010 03:25:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2010 03:25:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f54.google.com) (74.125.82.54) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2010 03:25:13 -0000 X-Received: by wwb22 with SMTP id 22so87529wwb.41 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:25:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.86.16 with SMTP id v16mr137973wee.162.1266549911865; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:25:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:25:11 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d588b9964801047feba134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2010: We Have Some Spaces on Existing Teams! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-MyMnr87w8u-3p1tis_H0C3j9BjvOOPzn5NGlpnau_VlR3TEDtgZ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d588b9964801047feba134 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings, all, March is quickly approaching and, with it, Back to Middle-earth Month. This year, we are running a writing challenge embedded as part of a quest game. We have a few teams signed up that have indicated that they would like a few other players to join them. If you've been on the fence, not sure if you can commit to a whole month of challenges, this is a good chance to get involved! If you think you'd like to join an existing team, please email me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com and I'll see if we can't work something out. :) If you're reading this and wondering what the heck I'm talking about--what is Back to Middle-earth Month??--more details are available on our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/ And please feel free to contact me with inquiries. :) Anyone still putting teams together, please remember that 28 February is the last day to register. I will be posting a reminder announcement when there's a week left for sign-ups but the earlier you register the better! All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d588b9964801047feba134 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all,

March is quickly approaching and, with it, Back to M= iddle-earth Month. This year, we are running a writing challenge embedded a= s part of a quest game. We have a few teams signed up that have indicated t= hat they would like a few other players to join them. If you've been on= the fence, not sure if you can commit to a whole month of challenges, this= is a good chance to get involved! If you think you'd like to join an e= xisting team, please email me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com and= I'll see if we can't work something out. :)

If you're = reading this and wondering what the heck I'm talking about--what is Bac= k to Middle-earth Month??--more details are available on our website:
http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/

And please feel free t= o contact me with inquiries. :)

Anyone still putting teams together,= please remember that 28 February is the last day to register. I will be po= sting a reminder announcement when there's a week left for sign-ups but= the earlier you register the better!

All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/=
http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d588b9964801047feba134-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3109 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89153 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2010 03:41:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2010 03:41:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2010 03:41:15 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 37897 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Feb 2010 03:41:08 -0000 Message-ID: <194927.37877.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ZNzGjg8VM1kMxi3HDyTTLyjeGXVyus.9dneu0JokRUHtWUTxZLV13C.DorGe8I8PreBIIq_2ft2Fd_7SVm80PNvdt8OrUFMrQCh23C.eBDcrk.ORgDL_a2jmKMtQTHzFhyNO7Zt3C_XWeKDUycLw6d1KZMWpiuzhUS1LhUdQfuvMZRpJN26CGHpeIhamcxREKtbPbVv7.uN1u3pW5nn5t3Y_Yck5uzhOkEHOftPDX4htMYxiUWZnOF_YbDbSIlGC6yWyvjPR9fh0rb4oSqBQ7rGkNgy8JI8ukE4kQdYON99hWw-- X-Received: from [75.177.60.79] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:41:08 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:41:08 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-172759203-1266550868=:37877" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: We Have Some Spaces on Existing Teams! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=JczZdVyVFXl2Qi1o12LSciQprqYVTEExHXmU_9Em2SAbELQxgw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-172759203-1266550868=:37877 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've got room on my team! Preferably someone who can read a map ;)~ ~~**~~I= warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien=C2=A0= =C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8= =C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 =C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4= *=C2=A0 -:|:- --- On Thu, 2/18/10, Dawn Felagund = wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: [Silmarillion= WritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: We Have Some Spaces on Existing Teams! To: "SWG" = , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups= .com Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 10:25 PM =C2=A0 = Greetings, all, March is quickly approaching and, wit= h it, Back to Middle-earth Month. This year, we are running a writing chall= enge embedded as part of a quest game. We have a few teams signed up that h= ave indicated that they would like a few other players to join them. If you= 've been on the fence, not sure if you can commit to a whole month of chall= enges, this is a good chance to get involved! If you think you'd like to jo= in an existing team, please email me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT = com and I'll see if we can't work something out. :) If you're reading thi= s and wondering what the heck I'm talking about--what is Back to Middle-ear= th Month??--more details are available on our website: http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild .org/b2mem2010/ And please feel free to contact me with= inquiries. :) Anyone still putting teams together, please remember that 2= 8 February is the last day to register. I will be posting a reminder announ= cement when there's a week left for sign-ups but the earlier you register t= he better! All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhave= ns .net/heretic_ loremaster/ http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org = --0-172759203-1266550868=:37877 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've got room on my team! Preferably someone = who can read a map ;)~
~~**~~=
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall tak= e my revenge. 
JRR Tol= kien
<= /em> 
 <= b>..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8)) &nb= sp; -:=C2=A6:- <= span style=3D"font-weight: bold; font-size: 13.5pt; color: black;">
<= font size=3D"1">  &n= bsp;     =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4  .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8= =C2=A8))  -:|:- 
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. A= lassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0
  = ;  -:=C2=A6:-    ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|= :-

--- On Thu, 2/18/10, Dawn Felagund wrote:

From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: We= Have Some Spaces on Existing Teams!
To: "SWG" , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thur= sday, February 18, 2010, 10:25 PM

 
=

Greetings, all,

March is quickly approaching and= , with it, Back to Middle-earth Month. This year, we are running a writing = challenge embedded as part of a quest game. We have a few teams signed up t= hat have indicated that they would like a few other players to join them. I= f you've been on the fence, not sure if you can commit to a whole month of = challenges, this is a good chance to get involved! If you think you'd like = to join an existing team, please email me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail= DOT com and I'll see if we can't work something out. :)

If you're = reading this and wondering what the heck I'm talking about--what is Back to= Middle-earth Month??--more details are available on our website:

http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/b2mem2010/

And please feel free to contact me with inquiries. :)

Any= one still putting teams together, please remember that 28 February is the l= ast day to register. I will be posting a reminder announcement when there's= a week left for sign-ups but the earlier you register the better!

= All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagun= d
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
<= a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org">http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org


--0-172759203-1266550868=:37877-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3110 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46029 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2010 05:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2010 05:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web112415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.137.26.177) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2010 05:53:03 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 12212 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Feb 2010 05:53:02 -0000 Message-ID: <861762.11554.qm@web112415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: s3eWuXsVM1nON4sx.dx61_y0WtdmaQmTKlT_lbv.ZkQNCPmLnkoNDPisjav9v0M3MB2_v71plmm15ckdB7kMGImQy1dip72ycC8wLT3Oxaiejtrv0fZnssPKud9Wt1yUAnWgJOveSE1.hvz.7odBHJy.C7mXsrljmyJlJF36Vw9gtEohEcaRR3oCElOcdF82qn4mWzQiggr3HeCuPGsyL.02TAB1X7vsPvZfcolVTTxab_.MA3LwURQAd_48V6ONU52tTvfAmK8XGL1BEI6Fi2mDZCz8KdmK5OHwEVfVUH_Tk_8l782FkfZouy7i9KjkGof037Oxt453BxDfz5n3QEW93f03wy7vkYbh8cwKjtdre..1CFNWog-- X-Received: from [125.165.142.255] by web112415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:53:02 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:53:02 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <194927.37877.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2000509098-1266558782=:11554" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: melissa chandra Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: We Have Some Spaces on Existing Teams! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=prHEogGa7TtEVmNjDwB9xqBYfKqHUmJBgG-_o0Tio7uF19jm8kU X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch --0-2000509098-1266558782=:11554 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eh? Do we really have to be able to read maps to navigate? :-\ I got the im= pression that we did not have to... :-\ =C2=A0 - Rey --- On Thu, 2/18/10,= Alassante7 wrote: From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: We Have Some S= paces on Existing Teams! To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR= _Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 10:41 PM= =C2=A0 I've got room on my team! Preferably someone who can read= a map ;)~ ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.= =C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C2=A0 =C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2= =A0 -:=C2=A6:- =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2= =B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 =C2=B0=C2=BA..= Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- --- On Thu, 2/18/10, Dawn Felagun= d wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: [SilmarillionWriter sGuild] B2MeM 2010: We Have Some Space= s on Existing Teams! To: "SWG" = , LOTR_Community_ GFIC@yahoogroups .com Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, = 10:25 PM =C2=A0 Greetings, all, March is quickly approaching and, with= it, Back to Middle-earth Month. This year, we are running a writing challe= nge embedded as part of a quest game. We have a few teams signed up that ha= ve indicated that they would like a few other players to join them. If you'= ve been on the fence, not sure if you can commit to a whole month of challe= nges, this is a good chance to get involved! If you think you'd like to joi= n an existing team, please email me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT c= om and I'll see if we can't work something out. :) If you're reading this = and wondering what the heck I'm talking about--what is Back to Middle-earth= Month??--more details are available on our website: http://www.silmaril l= ionwritersguild .org/b2mem2010/ And please feel free to contact me with in= quiries. :) Anyone still putting teams together, please remember that 28 F= ebruary is the last day to register. I will be posting a reminder announcem= ent when there's a week left for sign-ups but the earlier you register the = better! All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens .= net/heretic_ loremaster/ http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org = --0-2000509098-1266558782=:11554 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eh? Do we really have to be able to read= maps to navigate? :-\ I got the impression that we did not have to... :-\<= /DIV>
 
- Rey


--- On Thu, 2/18/1= 0, Alassante7 wrote:

From: Alassante7
Subj= ect: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: We Have Some Spaces on Exis= ting Teams!
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Community= _GFIC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 10:41 PM
 
<= /TABLE>
I've got room on my team! Preferably someone wh= o can read a map ;)~
~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
 ..= =C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))   -:=C2=A6:-
        =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4&n= bsp; .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))  -:|:- 
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante= .. <= /STRONG>=C2=BA=C2=B0
  &nb= sp; -:=C2=A6:-    ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|:-


--= - On Thu, 2/18/10, Dawn Felagund <= /B> wrote:
=
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: [Silmar= illionWriter sGuild] B2MeM 2010: We Have Some Spaces on Existing Teams!
= To: "SWG" , LOTR_Communit= y_ GFIC@yahoogroups .com
Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 10:25 PM
=
 
= Greetings, all,

March is quickly approaching and, with it, Back to M= iddle-earth Month. This year, we are running a writing challenge embedded a= s part of a quest game. We have a few teams signed up that have indicated t= hat they would like a few other players to join them. If you've been on the= fence, not sure if you can commit to a whole month of challenges, this is = a good chance to get involved! If you think you'd like to join an existing = team, please email me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com and I'll se= e if we can't work something out. :)

If you're reading this and wond= ering what the heck I'm talking about--what is Back to Middle-earth Month??= --more details are available on our website:

http= ://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org/b2mem2010/

And please feel= free to contact me with inquiries. :)

Anyone still putting teams t= ogether, please remember that 28 February is the last day to register. I wi= ll be posting a reminder announcement when there's a week left for sign-ups= but the earlier you register the better!

All the best,

Dawn<= BR clear=3Dall>
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://them= idhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril lion= writersguild .org

--0-2000509098-1266558782=:11554-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3111 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87307 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2010 13:13:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2010 13:13:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f225.google.com) (209.85.219.225) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2010 13:13:37 -0000 X-Received: by ewy25 with SMTP id 25so61749ewy.23 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:12:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.86.16 with SMTP id v16mr500559wee.162.1266585167116; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:12:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <861762.11554.qm@web112415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <194927.37877.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <861762.11554.qm@web112415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:12:47 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d588b9f6bc6f047ff3d671 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: We Have Some Spaces on Existing Teams! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wPSNbK-rwTpokfWH81rZcRY9loJ0qdWJi5CPrC1fpUPyVOaYvTlx X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d588b9f6bc6f047ff3d671 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:53 AM, melissa chandra wrote: >Eh? Do we really have to be able to read maps to navigate? :-\ I got the impression that we did not have to... :-\ Hi, Rey, Everything will be in both map and text form. (Actually, more will be on the location list than the map. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d588b9f6bc6f047ff3d671 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:53 AM, melissa chandra <melissa_pch@yahoo.com> = wrote:
>Eh? Do we really have to be able to read maps to navigate? :-= \ I got the impression that we did not have to... :-\

Hi, Rey,
<= br>Everything will be in both map and text form. (Actually, more will be on= the location list than the map. :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn= Felagund
http:/= /themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d588b9f6bc6f047ff3d671-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3112 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21404 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2010 13:58:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2010 13:58:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f228.google.com) (209.85.219.228) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2010 13:58:46 -0000 X-Received: by ewy28 with SMTP id 28so112200ewy.8 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:58:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.85.203 with SMTP id u53mr955469wee.184.1266587925612; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:58:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:58:45 -0800 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d62335620a85047ff47be4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: Question about Posting on SWG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=DCFKK-POTvx5Rjf6icPIpBAhuVtggQWe0xxK2TNzrNCp X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --0016e6d62335620a85047ff47be4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heya: I have a question. I am working on the OEAM Writer's Circle...a new w= riting program for OEAM and I was wondering if I would post about that on t= he SWG yahoo's group to your members. It starts on March 1st so I would lik= e to get the word out about that. Is that ok? I would do a teaser post and= then post when it is going. Thank you! --Jane (do you think I should also= post on the LJ comm?) On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:12 AM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:53 AM, melissa= chandra wrote: > >Eh? Do we really have to be able = to read maps to navigate? :-\ I got the > impression that we did not have t= o... :-\ > > Hi, Rey, > > Everything will be in both map and text form. (Ac= tually, more will be on > the location list than the map. :) > > > Dawn > >= -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ >= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > > --0016e6d62335620a85047ff47be4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heya: I have a question. I am working on the OEAM Writer's Circle...a n= ew writing program for OEAM and I was wondering if I would post about that = on the SWG yahoo's group to your members. It starts on March 1st so I w= ould like to get the word out about that.

Is that ok? I would do a= teaser post and then post when it is going. Thank you! --Jane

(do = you think I should also post on the LJ comm?)

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:12 AM, Dawn Felagund <<= a href=3D"mailto:DawnFelagund@gmail.com">DawnFelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
=
=A0=

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:53 AM, melissa chandra <melissa_pch= @yahoo.com> wrote:
>Eh? Do we really have to be able to= read maps to navigate? :-\ I got the impression that we did not have to...= :-\

Hi, Rey,

Everything will be in both map and text= form. (Actually, more will be on the location list than the map. :)http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org
=
--0016e6d62335620a85047ff47be4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3113 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80568 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2010 14:12:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2010 14:12:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2010 14:12:03 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 43340 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Feb 2010 14:12:02 -0000 Message-ID: <691431.43061.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: W1eUAFwVM1lhBK9SR_hN_h4_q_xHotPsWeHP63vMk4PbqxvfJJHD.PT4FyQl8nGFCe8dsZepdL5RBSnJLWys6pQZj_DGeKHAzLv8xJWhHERF5c33IdrEerouwatvEfwgMm2u_lSTNJtujGoks9nmaqj_rdJYPaTC7zJiXyf_lagQUoC4V3Oyq3AWaGBUGNNvi.MpN7DbciBgUM3ciEMT7ke27.d0M44t8RCiA..f2OOCDBG9GpTUlXbkluw6Dvae9MEoVu8OFqdojCzvhgVXmhHh1utfhp.69MHuatce_OFd2PBV7Bswcuw4IgVjj63._Bacldl9rlXbIeIiC5qofT9pdZZR7293LoDVDg-- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:12:02 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:12:02 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1391994079-1266588722=:43061" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Posting on SWG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=poIU6CHDPTpDzQpEfW_p8dQTph4PPNRYOkzS3gZ07Hzx2I1ufw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1391994079-1266588722=:43061 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What's OEAM? ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my reven= ge.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C2=A0 =C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0= =C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7= =C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 =C2=B0=C2= =BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Jane = Fink wrote: From: Jane Fink Sub= ject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Posting on SWG To: Silmaril= lionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 8:58 AM = =C2=A0 Heya: I have a question. I am working on the OEAM Writer's Circ= le...a new writing program for OEAM and I was wondering if I would post abo= ut that on the SWG yahoo's group to your members. It starts on March 1st so= I would like to get the word out about that. Is that ok? I would do a te= aser post and then post when it is going. Thank you! --Jane (do you think= I should also post on the LJ comm?) On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:12 AM, Daw= n Felagund wrote: =C2=A0 On Fri, Feb 19, 2= 010 at 12:53 AM, melissa chandra wrote: >Eh? Do we= really have to be able to read maps to navigate? :-\ I got the impression = that we did not have to... :-\ Hi, Rey, Everything will be in both map an= d text form. (Actually, more will be on the location list than the map. :) = Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaste= r/ http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org --0-1391994079-1266588722=:43061 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What's OEAM?

= ~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me,= I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
 = ..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))  = -:=C2=A6:-
    &nbs= p;   =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4  .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8)) &= nbsp;-:|:- 
= =C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0
    -:=C2=A6:-    ((=C2= =B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|:-


--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Jane Fink <= ;jhfink65@gmail.com> wrote:

From: = Jane Fink
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild]= Question about Posting on SWG
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.= com
Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 8:58 AM

 
Heya: I have a question. I am working on the OEAM Writer's Circle...a new = writing program for OEAM and I was wondering if I would post about that on = the SWG yahoo's group to your members. It starts on March 1st so I would li= ke to get the word out about that.

Is that ok? I would do a teaser = post and then post when it is going. Thank you! --Jane

(do you thin= k I should also post on the LJ comm?)

On F= ri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:12 AM, Dawn Felagund <DawnFel= agund@ gmail.com> wrote:
 
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:53 AM, melissa chandra <melissa_pch@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>Eh? Do = we really have to be able to read maps to navigate? :-\ I got the impressio= n that we did not have to... :-\

Hi, Rey,

Everything wi= ll be in both map and text form. (Actually, more will be on the location li= st than the map. :)


Dawn

--
~oOo~
Daw= n Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/=
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org
=


--0-1391994079-1266588722=:43061-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3114 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36725 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2010 14:12:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2010 14:12:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.92) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2010 14:12:50 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 70235 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Feb 2010 14:12:49 -0000 Message-ID: <569002.69148.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: AWsTpyEVM1nx4IPXhm3yw2yD1FaDMA_l_tCfDKiV5Z9ZQzR1r1XrzYDKWlEJ3HgEUAuHhHTjdyH0V7n78T_ylylaaTjKxepHl08XO3GF1yqrnnUV5X0Ms_hzqNC6fcBNQ93uohEszcR5xOieWSPlyUUc8KsaHu5iDw5XykUTVXdyDGVvlvkdGeamwwLX2fjyW9joCi3C1eXmsLtX_8KwpvQxZ932GCbJp2LW7VkflHGLoINxWpoDcomLu2I8BWgs5MonXraAk48GGD.U0esP9fSxyO4KJzu5LzUkUQFEb7M5PsgfBu79wBb3ZAsS.wXEbkmCJdSwXA-- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:12:49 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:12:49 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1394320712-1266588769=:69148" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: We Have Some Spaces on Existing Teams! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=1LY-_-LIAlnkFnXb7PcBTqttXpYk2Ka_Zf83lbM4CXRxrzuydA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1394320712-1266588769=:69148 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes sorry - that was a bad joke referencing my terrible navigation skills a= nd map reading =3D0) ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take m= y revenge.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C2=A0 =C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8)= )=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8= .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 =C2= =B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- --- On Fri, 2/19/10,= Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: We H= ave Some Spaces on Existing Teams! To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups= .com Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 8:12 AM =C2=A0 On Fri, Feb 19, = 2010 at 12:53 AM, melissa chandra wrote: >Eh? Do w= e really have to be able to read maps to navigate? :-\ I got the impression= that we did not have to... :-\ Hi, Rey, Everything will be in both map a= nd text form. (Actually, more will be on the location list than the map. :)= Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaste= r/ http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org --0-1394320712-1266588769=:69148 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes sorry - that was a bad joke referencing m= y terrible navigation skills and map reading =3D0)

~~**~~
I warn you, if you = bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
<= FONT face=3D"verdana, helvetica, sans-serif"> 
=
 ..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))&nbs= p;  -:=C2=A6:-
   &n= bsp;    =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4  .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8)= )  -:|:- 
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante<= /B> .. =C2=BA=C2=B0
    -:=C2=A6:-   = ; ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|:-


--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Dawn Fela= gund wrote:

From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: Re:= [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2010: We Have Some Spaces on Existing Tea= ms!
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, Februa= ry 19, 2010, 8:12 AM

 
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12= :53 AM, melissa chandra <melissa_pch@ yahoo.com&g= t; wrote:
>Eh? Do we really have to be able to read maps to na= vigate? :-\ I got the impression that we did not have to... :-\

Hi, = Rey,

Everything will be in both map and text form. (Actually, more w= ill be on the location list than the map. :)

Dawn

--
~oOo= ~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremas= ter/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org

--0-1394320712-1266588769=:69148-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3115 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46911 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2010 14:31:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2010 14:31:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f215.google.com) (209.85.219.215) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2010 14:31:29 -0000 X-Received: by ewy7 with SMTP id 7so143552ewy.17 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:31:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.213.66.1 with SMTP id l1mr910511ebi.91.1266589456791; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:24:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <691431.43061.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <691431.43061.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:24:16 +0100 Message-ID: <58f111e41002190624q76b74582m9c34f8a5908f31a3@mail.gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f7fa5e5a5faf6047ff4d652 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Posting on SWG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=j4n__M-QvF1jKTgAiFI8blwEk2PknzWC2-u5I8ulu2Tw1nkaIbQzgg8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --00c09f7fa5e5a5faf6047ff4d652 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of Elves and Men Alassante. :) Jane, I think Dawn shall reply to this late= r on since there are many things we (newsletter and such) can do for you :D= On 19 February 2010 15:12, Alassante7 wrote: > > = > What's OEAM? > > ~~**~~ > *I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my = revenge*. > *JRR Tolkien* > ** > ** > *..=B7*=B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- ** > = =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) -:|:- > =B0=BA.. Alassante** .. **=BA= =B0** > -:=A6:- ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4* -:|:-* > ** > > > > --- On *Fri, 2= /19/10, Jane Fink * wrote: > > > From: Jane Fink > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Posting= on SWG > To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, Febr= uary 19, 2010, 8:58 AM > > > Heya: I have a question. I am working on the O= EAM Writer's Circle...a new > writing program for OEAM and I was wondering = if I would post about that on > the SWG yahoo's group to your members. It s= tarts on March 1st so I would > like to get the word out about that. > > Is= that ok? I would do a teaser post and then post when it is going. Thank > = you! --Jane > > (do you think I should also post on the LJ comm?) > > On Fr= i, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:12 AM, Dawn Felagund > > wrote: >= >> >> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:53 AM, melissa chandra >= yahoo.com >> > wrote: >> >Eh? Do we really have to be able to read maps to navi= gate? :-\ I got the >> impression that we did not have to... :-\ >> >> Hi, = Rey, >> >> Everything will be in both map and text form. (Actually, more wi= ll be on >> the location list than the map. :) >> >> >> Dawn >> >> -- >> ~o= Oo~ >> Dawn Felagund >> http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/ >> http://www.silmaril lionwritersg= uild .org >> > > > > > > --00c09f7fa5e5a5faf6047ff4d652 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of Elves and Men Alassante. :)

Jane, I think Dawn shall reply to thi= s later on since there are many things we (newsletter and such) can do for = you :D

On 19 February 2010 15:12, Alassan= te7 <alassante= 7@yahoo.com> wrote:


What's OEAM?

~~**~~
<= font size=3D"1">I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.= =A0
JRR Tolkien
= =A0
<= /font>
=A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0= =A0 -:=A6:-
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.= =B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0
=B0=BA.. Alassante= .. =BA=B0<= /font>
=A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:-


---= On Fri, 2/19/10, Jane Fink <jhfink65@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jane Fink <jhfink65@gmail.com>
Subject: [SilmarillionWri= tersGuild] Question about Posting on SWG
To: SilmarillionWritersGuil= d@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 8:58 AM

<= div>=A0
Heya: I have a question.= I am working on the OEAM Writer's Circle...a new writing program for O= EAM and I was wondering if I would post about that on the SWG yahoo's g= roup to your members. It starts on March 1st so I would like to get the wor= d out about that.

Is that ok? I would do a teaser post and then po= st when it is going. Thank you! --Jane

(do you think I should also = post on the LJ comm?)

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:12 AM, Dawn Felagund &l= t;DawnFelagund@ gmail.com>= wrote:




=
<= /div>

--00c09f7fa5e5a5faf6047ff4d652-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3116 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75330 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2010 14:35:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2010 14:35:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f52.google.com) (74.125.82.180) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2010 14:35:42 -0000 X-Received: by wyb42 with SMTP id 42so10863wyb.39 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:35:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.87.80 with SMTP id x58mr1979641wee.92.1266590140368; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:35:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <691431.43061.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <691431.43061.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:35:40 -0800 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d624696486fe047ff4ff99 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Posting on SWG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=ZBA6wEjOSOwBde_Gvv0KOfWSn_MTObWgRa6ahqlixEqn X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --0016e6d624696486fe047ff4ff99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of Elves and Men. I meant that to go to Dawn. Oops. --Jane On Fri, Feb 19= , 2010 at 6:12 AM, Alassante7 wrote: > > > What's O= EAM? > > ~~**~~ > *I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge*. = > *JRR Tolkien* > ** > ** > *..=B7*=B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- ** > = =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) -:|:- > =B0=BA.. Alassante** .. **=BA=B0** > = -:=A6:- ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4* -:|:-* > ** > > > > --- On *Fri, 2/19/10, J= ane Fink * wrote: > > > From: Jane Fink > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Posting on SWG >= To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, February 19, = 2010, 8:58 AM > > > Heya: I have a question. I am working on the OEAM Write= r's Circle...a new > writing program for OEAM and I was wondering if I woul= d post about that on > the SWG yahoo's group to your members. It starts on = March 1st so I would > like to get the word out about that. > > Is that ok?= I would do a teaser post and then post when it is going. Thank > you! --Ja= ne > > (do you think I should also post on the LJ comm?) > > On Fri, Feb 19= , 2010 at 5:12 AM, Dawn Felagund > > wrote: > >> >> = On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:53 AM, melissa chandra > yahoo.co= m >> = > wrote: >> >Eh? Do we really have to be able to read maps to navigate? :-\= I got the >> impression that we did not have to... :-\ >> >> Hi, Rey, >> >= > Everything will be in both map and text form. (Actually, more will be on = >> the location list than the map. :) >> >> >> Dawn >> >> -- >> ~oOo~ >> Da= wn Felagund >> http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/ >> http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org= >> > > > > --0016e6d624696486fe047ff4ff99 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of Elves and Men.

I meant that to go to Dawn. Oops. --Jane

=
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Alassante7 <alassante7@yahoo.= com> wrote:
=A0

<= /p>
What's OEAM?

~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 <= /font>
JRR Tolkien
=A0<= /font>
= =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:= =A6:-
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4= =A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0=
=A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:-


--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Jane Fink <jhfink65@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jane Fink <jhfink65@gmail.com&= gt;
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Posting on SWG To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, Febr= uary 19, 2010, 8:58 AM

=A0
Heya: I have a question. I am working on the OEAM Writer's Circ= le...a new writing program for OEAM and I was wondering if I would post abo= ut that on the SWG yahoo's group to your members. It starts on March 1s= t so I would like to get the word out about that.

Is that ok? I wo= uld do a teaser post and then post when it is going. Thank you! --Jane
=
(do you think I should also post on the LJ comm?)

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:12 AM, Dawn= Felagund <D= awnFelagund@ gmail.com> wrote:
=A0
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:53 = AM, melissa chandra <melissa_pch@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>Eh? Do we real= ly have to be able to read maps to navigate? :-\ I got the impression that = we did not have to... :-\

Hi, Rey,

Everything will be i= n both map and text form. (Actually, more will be on the location list than= the map. :) http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org


=


--0016e6d624696486fe047ff4ff99-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3117 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70063 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2010 21:09:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2010 21:09:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.93) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2010 21:09:56 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 70432 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Feb 2010 21:09:55 -0000 Message-ID: <746494.70367.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: sshNVLIVM1lTJOTwThewSvFxeHAYl0AdESGGsgpJUzRnlRZ6RJQ9qx1p9ER0yp0Plemthoc.srxTcr_D3U2qqP0WhAW8ZGIZPSJygj3HcwZHwl_t7RpUQOE8ZE_4p9u4QjAoKzmYyWJTTEGoIJOJvZMXdgEh1v0ygI68ofbbRFZeU1NtKSN.a6XWpH.h6tVifTz5vJL9.KjEX.d4SX5TdB3KUSZcj8XYyHK2ZdAwAbKqrFBPw12JILzHJdpJnNqGQaJdCXp1xPRcsQwo3x55Jwvo4fYsJIxp1szIKUG9.uc764pLIIZKfTeUG2LQhWgNj3heG.Vi7t4- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:09:55 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:09:55 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , lotr-research@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1276825796-1266613795=:70367" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: Question about Aman and the Ring of Doom X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=KO9NFb89N7XeFecKWEO32bhVwcwbSV6ZONrVKHloWOXX0zlS3g X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1276825796-1266613795=:70367 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm trying to determine something based on this section of the Silm: =A0 Bu= t now the deeds of F=EBanor could not be passed over, and the Valar were an= gered and dismayed; and he was summoned to appear before them at the gates = of Valmar, to answer for all his words and deeds. There also were summoned = all others who had any part in this matter, or any knowledge of it; and F= =EBanor standing before Mandos in the Ring of Doom was commanded to answer = all that was asked of him I was trying to figure out if the Ring of Doom a= nd the gates were=A0at the same place. Then I found this passage: =A0 And w= hen Valinor was full-wrought and the mansions of the Valar were established= , in the midst of the plain beyond the mountains they built their city, Val= mar of many bells. Before its western gate there was a green mound, Ezelloh= ar, that is named also Corollair=EB; and Yavanna hallowed it, and she sat t= here long upon the green grass and sang a song of power, in which was set a= ll her thought of things that grow in the earth. But Nienna thought in sile= nce, and watered the mould with tears. In that time the Valar were gathered= together to hear the song of Yavanna, and they sat silent upon their thron= es of council in the M=E1hanaxar, the Ring of Doom near to the golden gates= of Valmar, and Yavanna Kement=E1ri sang before them and they watched. =A0 = Now I don't know if that means the gates were just where they met Feanor an= d Fingolfin then everyone moved on to the Ring of Doom from there. OR if th= ey were=A0saying they were 'called to the gates' just a confusing way of sa= ying that they were called to the Ring of Doom in Valmar? =A0 I'm confused.= =A0 =A0 =A0 ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.= =A0 JRR Tolkien =A0 =A0..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0 -:=A6:- =A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 =B8.=B7=B4=A0 .=B7=B4=A8=A8))=A0=A0-:|:-=A0 =B0=BA.. Alassante ..= =BA=B0 =A0=A0=A0 -:=A6:-=A0=A0=A0 ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*=A0 -:|:- --0-1276825796-1266613795=:70367 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm trying to determine somethin= g based on this section of the Silm:
 
= But now the deeds o= f F=EBanor could not be passed over, and the Valar were angered and dismaye= d; and he was summoned to appear = before them at the gates of Valmar, to answer for all his words and = deeds. There also were summoned all others who had any part in this matter,= or any knowledge of it; and F=EB= anor standing before Mandos in the Ring of Doom was commanded to ans= wer all that was asked of him

I was trying to fi= gure out if the Ring of Doom and the gates were at the same place. The= n I found this passage:
 

And when Valinor was full-wrought and the mansions= of the Valar were established, in the midst of the plain beyond the mounta= ins they built their city, Valmar of many bells. Before its western gate th= ere was a green mound, Ezellohar, that is named also Corollair=EB; and Yava= nna hallowed it, and she sat there long upon the green grass and sang a son= g of power, in which was set all her thought of things that grow in the ear= th. But Nienna thought in silence, and watered the mould with tears. In tha= t time the Valar were gathered together to hear the song of Yavanna, and th= ey sat silent upon their thrones of council in the M=E1hanaxar, the Ring of Doom near to the golden gates of= Valmar, and Yavanna Kement=E1ri sang before them and they watched.<= /EM>

 
Now I don't know i= f that means the gates were just where they met Feanor and Fingolfin then e= veryone moved on to the Ring of Doom from there. OR if they were sayin= g they were 'called to the gates' just a confusing way of saying that they = were called to the Ring of Doom in Valmar?
<= /FONT> 
I'm confused.  <= /DIV>
<= /SPAN> 
 
~~**~~
<= BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"COLOR: rgb(127,0,127); MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I warn you, if you bor= e me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
 = ..=B7*=B4=A8=A8))   -:=A6:- =
      &nbs= p; =B8.=B7=B4  .=B7=B4=A8=A8))  -:|:- 
=B0=BA.. Alassante .. =BA=B0
    -:=A6= :-    ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4*  -:|:-
=

--0-1276825796-1266613795=:70367-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3118 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82045 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2010 23:15:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2010 23:15:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web112416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.137.26.181) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2010 23:15:28 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 9100 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Feb 2010 23:15:27 -0000 Message-ID: <889961.113.qm@web112416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: xvKiMiAVM1keOEjsmfLi3JkEe8RiEHYeCTbCGUqLjHOofotl5LIiQobZgohUE42p5mLO.4lbsJ6fBaK.q2PbG1LA3DLwAbAqyyQBoBQlj.SqS_oxEkzRJN2wmBWlIKDVXGdo7ZKTwRT8RRR4zV7yPGpZaOiON37ELr0RkZePDgrtVxUV9_Aewz1BcSCOZeDBgP2iNGcbSVWzFTqMwoBXAdFXdN4IsxTwQoYLWO.cmepjLrkOKki_GY7u8Ps9MTPpCW1lXdk6oTrJDikYtwACrH0vXCLBId.MLC6sp5t7bOV_U5MTfFzIqs12Y36on7A_yMGqZlhe5YnLr7V2WrDfpcBTkFAe7s_SAFGByNzoatbtTfhng3qCihc- X-Received: from [125.160.225.30] by web112416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:15:27 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:15:27 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <746494.70367.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1733755152-1266621327=:113" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: melissa chandra Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Aman and the Ring of Doom X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=kGRG1jTh9O6g_uy9NJcW3dd629wVRPoWu19v0hN83DBFirwQ6pQ X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch --0-1733755152-1266621327=:113 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Umm. I am not much better in that, but I would like to hazard a guess. :-\ = =C2=A0 Mahanaxar was outside the "golden gates" of Valmar. So I take it Fea= nor was summoned to that place - the gates - to meet the Valar there... A b= it inconvinient, though. (Or perhaps this is just my cheeky reasoning.) All= the Valar and important people clogging the gates... =C2=A0 After all, we = have the sentence like "Meet me at the gates." =C2=A0 Or, it could be a sli= ght misplacement. "at the gates" should be "outside the gates"... =C2=A0 - = Rey --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Alassante7 wrote: From:= Alassante7 Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Ques= tion about Aman and the Ring of Doom To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild" , lotr-research@yahoogroups.com Date: Fr= iday, February 19, 2010, 4:09 PM =C2=A0 I'm trying to determine = something based on this section of the Silm: =C2=A0 But now the deeds of F= =C3=ABanor could not be passed over, and the Valar were angered and dismaye= d; and he was summoned to appear before them at the gates of Valmar, to ans= wer for all his words and deeds. There also were summoned all others who ha= d any part in this matter, or any knowledge of it; and F=C3=ABanor standing= before Mandos in the Ring of Doom was commanded to answer all that was ask= ed of him I was trying to figure out if the Ring of Doom and the gates wer= e=C2=A0at the same place. Then I found this passage: =C2=A0 And when Valino= r was full-wrought and the mansions of the Valar were established, in the m= idst of the plain beyond the mountains they built their city, Valmar of man= y bells. Before its western gate there was a green mound, Ezellohar, that i= s named also Corollair=C3=AB; and Yavanna hallowed it, and she sat there lo= ng upon the green grass and sang a song of power, in which was set all her = thought of things that grow in the earth. But Nienna thought in silence, an= d watered the mould with tears. In that time the Valar were gathered togeth= er to hear the song of Yavanna, and they sat silent upon their thrones of c= ouncil in the M=C3=A1hanaxar, the Ring of Doom near to the golden gates of = Valmar, and Yavanna Kement=C3=A1ri sang before them and they watched. =C2= =A0 Now I don't know if that means the gates were just where they met Feano= r and Fingolfin then everyone moved on to the Ring of Doom from there. OR i= f they were=C2=A0saying they were 'called to the gates' just a confusing wa= y of saying that they were called to the Ring of Doom in Valmar? =C2=A0 I'm= confused.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ~~**~~ I warn you, if you bore me, I sha= ll take my revenge.=C2=A0 JRR Tolkien =C2=A0 =C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2= =A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:- =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-= =C2=A0 =C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante .. =C2=BA=C2=B0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6= :-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- = --0-1733755152-1266621327=:113 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Umm. I am not much better in that, but I= would like to hazard a guess. :-\
 
Mahanaxar w= as outside the "golden gates" of Valmar. So I take it Feanor was summoned t= o that place - the gates - to meet the Valar there... A bit inconvinient, t= hough. (Or perhaps this is just my cheeky reasoning.) All the Valar and imp= ortant people clogging the gates...
 
After all,= we have the sentence like "Meet me at the gates."
 
=
Or, it could be a slight misplacement. "at the gates" should be "outsi= de the gates"...
 
- Rey


--- = On Fri, 2/19/10, Alassante7 wrot= e:

From: Alassante7
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about Aman and th= e Ring of Doom
To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild" , lotr-research@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, Febr= uary 19, 2010, 4:09 PM

 
I'm = trying to determine something based on this section of the Silm:
 
But now the deeds of F=C3=ABanor could no= t be passed over, and the Valar were angered and dismayed; and he was summo= ned to appear before them at the = gates of Valmar, to answer for all his words and deeds. There also w= ere summoned all others who had any part in this matter, or any knowledge o= f it; and F=C3=ABanor standing be= fore Mandos in the Ring of Doom was commanded to answer all that was= asked of him

I was trying to figure out if the = Ring of Doom and the gates were at the same place. Then I found this p= assage:
 

And when Valinor was full-wrought and the mansions of the Valar we= re established, in the midst of the plain beyond the mountains they built t= heir city, Valmar of many bells. Before its western gate there was a green = mound, Ezellohar, that is named also Corollair=C3=AB; and Yavanna hallowed = it, and she sat there long upon the green grass and sang a song of power, i= n which was set all her thought of things that grow in the earth. But Nienn= a thought in silence, and watered the mould with tears. In that time the Va= lar were gathered together to hear the song of Yavanna, and they sat silent= upon their thrones of council in= the M=C3=A1hanaxar, the Ring of Doom near to the golden gates of Valmar, and Yavanna Kement=C3=A1ri sang before them and they watched.

 
 
I'm confused. 
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: verdana"> =
 
~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I = shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 
 ..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))   -:=C2=A6:- <= /STRONG>
        =C2=B8.= =C2=B7=C2=B4  .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))  -:|:- 
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante= .= . =C2=BA=C2=B0
&= nbsp;   -:=C2=A6:-    ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=   -:|:-


--0-1733755152-1266621327=:113-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3119 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60947 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2010 03:29:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2010 03:29:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f49.google.com) (74.125.82.49) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2010 03:29:33 -0000 X-Received: by wwd20 with SMTP id 20so75403wwd.8 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:29:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.90.196 with SMTP id e46mr1546029wef.138.1266636571882; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:29:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:29:31 -0800 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=0016e6dab0cded3784047fffceca X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: OEAM's Writer's Circle: Coming March 1st X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=v6ACetl-5X-N2TB7kEGazQOziV4FEuItwbhOHuPLXILK X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --0016e6dab0cded3784047fffceca Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dab0cded3780047fffcec9 --0016e6dab0cded3780047fffcec9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 [image: ?ui=2&view=att&th=126c8f2e5f78287b&attid=0.1&disp=attd&realattid=ii_126c8f2e5f78287b&zw] A new program of writing prompts designed to tease your creativity and get you writing over at OEAM (Of Elves and Men). This is in formation and the first prompt will be posted on March 1, 2010 to run through that month. We promise these will be fun, and easy to do... Feel free to comment with your interest but keep an eye out on the livejournal community and on the yahoo group for more information. Suggestions for prompts are also welcome! Also working on this project are aglarien1 and chaotic_binky. Thank you. Phyncke Posted on LJ here: http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/29386.html Of Elves and Men Web Site www.ofelvesandmen.com --0016e6dab0cded3780047fffcec9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


<= img title=3D"?ui=3D2&view=3Datt&th=3D126c8f2e5f78287b&attid=3D0= .1&disp=3Dattd&realattid=3Dii_126c8f2e5f78287b&zw" alt=3D"?ui= =3D2&view=3Datt&th=3D126c8f2e5f78287b&attid=3D0.1&disp=3Dat= td&realattid=3Dii_126c8f2e5f78287b&zw" src=3D"cid:ii_126c8f2e5f7828= 7b">
A new program of writing prompts designed to tea= se your creativity and get you writing over at OEAM (Of Elves and Men). Thi= s is in formation and the first prompt will be posted on March 1, 2010 to r= un through that month. We promise these will be fun, and easy to do...
<= br>Feel free to comment with your interest but keep an eye out on the livej= ournal community and on the yahoo group for more information. Suggestions f= or prompts are also welcome!

Also working on this project are aglarien1 and chaotic_binky.

= Thank you.
Phyncke

Posted on LJ here:
http://community.li= vejournal.com/oeam/29386.html

Of Elves and Men Web Site
www.ofelvesandmen.com

--0016e6dab0cded3780047fffcec9-- --0016e6dab0cded3784047fffceca-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3120 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4093 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2010 15:16:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2010 15:16:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web111711.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (67.195.23.109) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2010 15:16:35 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 87711 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Feb 2010 15:16:35 -0000 Message-ID: <341686.87186.qm@web111711.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: sYVL3hwVM1laHlUsx5FgYIes9x9F12qJY1PpiqgJ0v4nt1S FSQGUfDQDiVrgde7U1jaEcUNcMFfurH4uPIq.JXiTaMcCiBtQeTJ1tXCLr3c lSJbhSH2_A_8_WZyiYdf4iGE.a3pz83SPv_qKRuAJ4mS5uutucb91SMSYPGx zfRCRkFRBT5hDgTuV7rAWMP6ispgS9iW4XtWZ7aA9YEv4tCVW4.1ZiFiZruF 7p65F8lwL.Pt.7vKn_T56OIxnV3xHGniqBghqHicny27U32xxejiKkMwWlqP dYdjoYM2KjCUf2V1Kim_T4vfOWHNANBdjS_4trtTTKG_49n4a.NBhD703saY 9Mu6flfoPSz6kfBP58dyaO9xQGlthtrMWUDMRkeyqe3lcobE- X-Received: from [125.160.237.227] by web111711.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:16:35 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:16:35 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <306071.36625.qm@web24406.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1658922800-1266765395=:87186" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: melissa chandra Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Well, not much activity here X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=cQBvdOjLosqhUQt4kSP2V0jHNccwcdUWYF1GOHS3lyBO-EdBkio X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch --0-1658922800-1266765395=:87186 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not necessarily. As the others playing devil's advocate have said before...= And don't forget that the Sindar did teach the Noldor many things when the= y came to Beleriand. Otherwise, the Noldor would have perished or at least = diminished under all the onslaught of the enemy's forces. And they did bow = before the wrath of Elu Thingol when he banned Quenya from Beleriand - whic= h at that time was all his domain. The Sindar would have been tougher too, = having to live under the threat of Morgoth and his minions while the Noldor= had prospered in Aman (as someone before has said; sorry, I forget whom). = You did not put "the most resilient" under the list of how superior the Nol= dor was, did you?=A0;) Under all the pressure and the limit of resources, t= he Sindar's achievements were thus remarkable on their own way. =A0 - Rey = --- On Thu, 10/1/09, CGL wrote: From: CGL Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Well, not much = activity here To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, = October 1, 2009, 1:06 PM =A0 --- On Thu, 1/10/09, Dawn Felagund wrote: > Yep, we're in one of our quiet phases at the= moment. Just let someone > mention the right hot-button topic ... ;) =A0 = The Noldor are clearly superior to the Sindar in every possible way. Dis= cuss. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger .ya= hoo.com --0-1658922800-1266765395=:87186 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not necessarily. As the others playing d= evil's advocate have said before... And don't forget that the Sindar did te= ach the Noldor many things when they came to Beleriand. Otherwise, the Nold= or would have perished or at least diminished under all the onslaught of th= e enemy's forces. And they did bow before the wrath of Elu Thingol when he = banned Quenya from Beleriand - which at that time was all his domain. The S= indar would have been tougher too, having to live under the threat of Morgo= th and his minions while the Noldor had prospered in Aman (as someone befor= e has said; sorry, I forget whom). You did not put "the most resilient" und= er the list of how superior the Noldor was, did you? ;) Under all the = pressure and the limit of resources, the Sindar's achievements were thus re= markable on their own way.
 
- Rey

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, CGL = wrote:

From: CGL
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Well, not much activit= y here
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, O= ctober 1, 2009, 1:06 PM

 
--- On Thu, 1/10/09, Da= wn Felagund <DawnFelagund@ gmail.com> wrote:

>= ; Yep, we're in one of our quiet phases at the moment. Just let someone > mention the right hot-button topic ... ;)
 

The Noldor= are clearly superior to the Sindar in every possible way.

Discuss.=

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger .ya= hoo.com

= --0-1658922800-1266765395=:87186-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3121 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42495 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2010 15:47:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2010 15:47:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web111713.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (67.195.23.111) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2010 15:47:55 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 57328 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Feb 2010 15:47:51 -0000 Message-ID: <923943.54665.qm@web111713.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: W_sz1GAVM1nl.7xb8yO_9B1LeaggvyJWTY.Lx2OVVpkZxA3 VDPc4ggOn.PkbHoNIbq3tG0PfeBDLF9IUHks1nbvW56Kx9f9pknJRWFXzA1C YxXYyyThCRplNhtm09M9ob2z1mV_B69TbLAw6nt1KnsgYpz3bsVCqKzzFTM1 RLJGjAAf7fnHzgRE07BORJ2a3y2OSRzOutLNS4wjDj98sq7oHYzzP9WaqsmA nZF2Mc5RaaIPvKIuvn89SSppxRxQvm5qvycM71u8UbUW9xBZiKgP.WBNxHh7 XKxk7yw3Ic7xLUugI9gf02JsmG4oIqe_8qRG_FBoVKiOryM7A9o1btHaesNJ QnH_JEjgjP_kWBjobtCbju_F9yly2jZz9s_oAkp.xHvx.XhRw8WAGCEk- X-Received: from [125.160.237.227] by web111713.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:47:51 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:47:51 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2115301120-1266767271=:54665" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: melissa chandra Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: OT. How come Merlin? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=Npd3FB14LLiOYW_OG5pSA-SMOoaZTbv7sRMs2nzKWP3O1F2yiP0 X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch --0-2115301120-1266767271=:54665 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amusing, to say the least. :) =A0 Hmm. I think SWG's reference section has = Maedhros in it too? I have not checked. =A0 What is wrong with purple prose= ? Many of the synonyms are invented for that purpose, and one can only read= so many words repeated letter by letter every few paragraphs. :) That make= s the written world so much vibrant and beautiful; because you cannot speak= 'purply'. =A0 - Rey --- On Sun, 9/27/09, nav_joyi w= rote: From: nav_joyi Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGu= ild] Re: OT. How come Merlin? To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com = Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 1:40 PM =A0 The wind blows my skirt= up. It is a very naughty wind here. It blew the roof of my dogs' kennels. = Maybe best that you stick with fiction; or for > now at least. But I tell = you in all truth, real reality is far more > mysterious, amazing, and all c= onsuming. It makes it all the more interesting. A bit like diving for cora= ls or hiking? I love both. > But I am still here and they aint, so keep s= miling :- ) > I am smiling. It is a very interesting viewpoint that you h= ave on oh-so-many things :) The Maedhros geezer: Oh, I could possible exc= eed the word count allowed for a message if I have to talk about him. http:= //en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Maedhros. I love him because he is so flawed an= d that allows for so many interpretations( to me). I like to read and write= (write within my limited abilities) dark stories that have him in pivotal r= oles. But to really, really *know* Maedhros, I close my eyes and imagine a = lonely form before a sunset, standing on the shore by a turbulent sea, wave= s lapping against his feet, blood-stained sword held loose in one hand, and= that tormented grey-eyes staring at the horizon with wistful hope. (Purp= le prose, and a whole passage of it. My morals are not improving :D) --- I= n SilmarillionWriters Guild@yahoogroup s.com, "rwr" = wrote: > > > How come Merlin? > > > > [wondering whatever you did to be= called the Merlin of Exmoor ] > > > > Well young ma'am maybe better not= tell it, tis a long story and it > involves oh so much, and much of which = is not too pleasant. I came here > to learn about your stuff and your inter= ests and that which blows your > skirt up, so to speak. Maybe best that you= stick with fiction; or for > now at least. But I tell you in all truth, re= al reality is far more > mysterious, amazing, and all consuming. But suffic= ient for the day that > you land in it; with a bang. Reams of death treats = for writing is a > reasonable bang and blows the cobwebs of la-la land away= soon enough. > But I am still here and they aint, so keep smiling :- ) > = > > > So; who is this Maedhros geezer whom you mention. Tell me all about= it. > > > > Merlin > --0-2115301120-1266767271=:54665 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= /table>
--0-2115301120-1266767271=:54665-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3122 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41724 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2010 23:08:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2010 23:08:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f46.google.com) (74.125.82.46) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2010 23:08:07 -0000 X-Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so479436wwf.5 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:08:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.87.140 with SMTP id y12mr1917859wee.36.1266880085821; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:08:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:08:05 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Cc: b2mem@silmarillionwritersguild.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d5667a7d0b2c0480388139 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2010: The Hourglass Is Running ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=csCtB5Orpr_of4DBNOVJXFkvP-h7X5bCKI7OaGsNsCQ6TkOn30tW X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d5667a7d0b2c0480388139 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings, all, There is now less than a week left to register for B2MeM 2010, and this will be my last reminder post. At noon EST (which is GMT - 5) on Sunday, February 28, we will no longer accept any new registrations. If you'd like to register, you can do so here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.php?page=new_player If you are still in the process of getting your team organized but know that you definitely want to be a part, I would suggest registering now. Please keep in mind that you can add additional players to your team at *any time*during the event. However, you cannot create a new team after the event begins. If you'd like to play on a team but don't yet have any takers, there are a few teams still requesting additional players. Please email me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com, and I'll do my best to match you up with a team. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d5667a7d0b2c0480388139 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all,

There is now less than a week left to register for B= 2MeM 2010, and this will be my last reminder post. At noon EST (which is GM= T - 5) on Sunday, February 28, we will no longer accept any new registratio= ns.

If you'd like to register, you can do so here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.p= hp?page=3Dnew_player

If you are still in the process of getting= your team organized but know that you definitely want to be a part, I woul= d suggest registering now. Please keep in mind that you can add additional = players to your team at any time during the event. However, you cann= ot create a new team after the event begins.

If you'd like to p= lay on a team but don't yet have any takers, there are a few teams stil= l requesting additional players. Please email me off-list at DawnFelagund A= T gmail DOT com, and I'll do my best to match you up with a team.
<= br>All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fela= gund
http://them= idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d5667a7d0b2c0480388139-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3123 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42398 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2010 02:49:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2010 02:49:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f50.google.com) (74.125.82.50) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2010 02:49:10 -0000 X-Received: by wwb31 with SMTP id 31so1494376wwb.9 for ; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:49:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.89.130 with SMTP id c2mr3702771wef.44.1267498149636; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:49:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 21:49:09 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99d7ef66a2e0480c86809 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: Greetings from Your Herald! (and Tavernkeeper) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=gZiNln24fUuyYciS4Sesl0EXPWbU2_fi7flOlpWS-ryCb6hV7EZD X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d99d7ef66a2e0480c86809 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings unto the people of Arda! The month of March is once more upon us and, with it, Back to Middle-earth Month. But this season, I--your humble herald Ornisso the Unappreciated--have dark tidings to bring, for it seems that the world's end is upon us. It began in the fashion of a rumor, as such things tend to do. I keep a humble tavern here on the coast, in a town where the name has been long-forgotten, and I first heard the mariners speaking softly to one another of new lands rising where before there had been naught but sea. I assumed them deep in their cups and prone to fancies thereof, but one night, as I walked at the verge of the sea, I chanced to look skyward and saw that even the familiar stars had taken new shapes: shapes of dire warning. Shapes that portended, to my ancient heart, that the end was near. For you may once have known me. I am of the ancient line that came from Valinor when the Trees went dark, and I was in the service of King Fingolfin, one of his loremasters, though not the best-known, not he who would author the texts that forged the legends found in the books upon your shelves. But I remember the ancient tales of the world's ending; I wrote of them once and argued hotly with Pengolodh of Gondolin, who thought not much of what I had written. He prevailed, and the stories spoken by your wise Elrond and gentle, brave Bilbo, told even by the great authors of your own time, echoed *his* words and mine were lost to dust, fated to fade even as did my people upon Eriador. The end is upon us--yet all hope is not lost. Twenty of our heroes--some more ancient than the stars and others new-born upon this world--have gathered to lead the forces of good against the Dark Foe Morgoth when he breaks forth from beyond the night as the lost legends forebode. They have gathered in my Tavern to begin their work that will determine the fate of the world. Shall Light triumph as it was meant to do from the beginning? Or shall all descend into darkness? Come meet our heroes in the Tavern, where they are becoming acquainted and sharing their own tales of how they became engaged in this quest for the fate of the world. In the weeks to come, we shall all share story and song, that which has ever inspired hearts and minds and changed the world. Shall we change it yet again? That remains to be seen, but we hope you will join us on our journey. May the stars guide you on your way, Ornisso the Unappreciated Loremaster of Fingolfin (who is most absolutely decidedly *not* Pengolodh P.S.--If you could not join us for our quest but wish to share your own tales this month, you may find our challenges here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.php?page=locations . -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d99d7ef66a2e0480c86809 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

Greetings unto the people of Arda!

The month of March is once more upon us and, with it, Back to Middle-earth Month. But this season, I--your humble herald Ornisso the Unappreciated--have dark tidings to bring, for it seems that the world's end is upon us.

It began in the fashion of a rumor, as such things tend to do. I keep a humble tavern here on the coast, in a town where the name has been long-forgotten, and I first heard the mariners speaking softly to one another of new lands rising where before there had been naught but sea. I assumed them deep in their cups and prone to fancies thereof, but one night, as I walked at the verge of the sea, I chanced to look skyward and saw that even the familiar stars had taken new shapes: shapes of dire warning. Shapes that portended, to my ancient heart, that the end was near.

For you may once have known me. I am of the ancient line that came from Valinor when the Trees went dark, and I was in the service of King Fingolfin, one of his loremasters, though not the best-known, not he who would author the texts that forged the legends found in the books upon your shelves. But I remember the ancient tales of the world's ending; I wrote of them once and argued hotly with Pengolodh of Gondolin, who thought not much of what I had written. He prevailed, and the stories spoken by your wise Elrond and gentle, brave Bilbo, told even by the great authors of your own time, echoed his words and mine were lost to dust, fated to fade even as did my people upon Eriador.

The end is upon us--yet all hope is not lost. Twenty of our heroes--some more ancient than the stars and others new-born upon this world--have gathered to lead the forces of good against the Dark Foe Morgoth when he breaks forth from beyond the night as the lost legends forebode. They have gathered in my Tavern to begin their work that will determine the fate of the world. Shall Light triumph as it was meant to do from the beginning? Or shall all descend into darkness?

Come meet our heroes in the Tavern, where they are becoming acquainted and sharing their own tales of how they became engaged in this quest for the fate of the world. In the weeks to come, we shall all share story and song, that which has ever inspired hearts and minds and changed the world. Shall we change it yet again? That remains to be seen, but we hope you will join us on our journey.

May the stars guide you on your way,

Ornisso the Unappreciated
Loremaster of Fingolfin
(who is most absolutely decidedly not Pengolodh

P.S.--If you could not join us for our quest but wish to share your own tales this month, you may find our challenges here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.php?page=locations.



--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d99d7ef66a2e0480c86809-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3124 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19208 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2010 14:31:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2010 14:31:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f177.google.com) (74.125.82.177) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2010 14:31:37 -0000 X-Received: by wyf23 with SMTP id 23so154271wyf.8 for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 06:31:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.87.71 with SMTP id x49mr4050476wee.11.1267540295822; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 06:31:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 06:31:35 -0800 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=0016e6d63f8a122dcc0480d2395e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: OEAM Writer's Circle Has Started! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=N9jMvDedYjAINkV9sof6Q32oPcG0ssGbIEVH68fpmBQ- X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --0016e6d63f8a122dcc0480d2395e Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d63f8a122dc80480d2395d --0016e6d63f8a122dc80480d2395d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 [image: ?ui=2&view=att&th=1271f494125f3b3a&attid=0.1&disp=attd&realattid=ii_1271f494125f3b3a&zw] Here is the first prompt for March 2010. This prompt will run from March 1 to March 31, 2010. You may post your stories during the month. You may write more than one story to fill this idea. There is no limit to how many you can submit. If you would like to write a series of pieces, go for it! Minimum length: 100 words, no upper length. Prompt 01: To write a description of a character from any point of view. What does this character look like, what are their overwhelming attributes and what makes them special? Or not so special? The character can be a hero or villain or anyone of your choosing from any allowable fandom. Ex: (from Lord of the Rings, Fellowship of the Ring) Glorfindel was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of joy; his eyes were bright and keen and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom and in his hand was strength. Of note: This is not limited to the LOTR fandom. Any of the OEAM fandoms are permissable. Please check on www.ofelvesandmen.com or the profile for what will work. You will need to join the OEAM LJ Community to participate and can do here: http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/ We hope that you have fun writing through the month of March. Please let us know if you have any questions. --0016e6d63f8a122dc80480d2395d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"?ui=3D2&view=3Datt&th=3D1271f494125f3b=

Here is the first prom= pt for March 2010.=A0=A0 This prompt will run from March 1 to March 31,
= 2010. You may post your stories during the month.

You may write m= ore than one story to fill this idea. There is no limit
to how many you= can submit. If you would like to write a series of
pieces, go for it! =

Minimum length: 100 words, no upper length.

Prompt 01:<= br>
To
write a description of a character from any point of view. = What does
this character look like, what are their overwhelming attribu= tes and
what makes them special? Or not so special? The character can b= e a hero
or villain or anyone of your choosing from any allowable fando= m.

Ex: (from Lord of the Rings, Fellowship of the Ring)

= Glorfindel
was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his fac= e fair and
young and fearless and full of joy; his eyes were bright and= keen and
his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom and in his hand = was
strength.

Of note:

This is not limited to
the= LOTR fandom. Any of the OEAM fandoms are permissable. Please check
on = www.ofelvesandm= en.com or the profile for what will work.

You will need to jo= in the OEAM LJ Community to participate and can do here:
http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/<= /a>

We hope that you have fun writing through the month of March.= =A0 Please let us know if you have any
questions. --0016e6d63f8a122dc80480d2395d-- --0016e6d63f8a122dcc0480d2395e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3125 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36395 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2010 03:12:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2010 03:12:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f180.google.com) (74.125.82.180) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2010 03:12:56 -0000 X-Received: by wyb35 with SMTP id 35so510629wyb.25 for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:12:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.87.208 with SMTP id y58mr2045554wee.30.1267585975548; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:12:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 22:12:55 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7e352cb7cfd0480dcdba8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: March Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=VnE3ifPNziDQsLf1KFL_mjcoLWEO48v0HUag-ebxPme_MdjLS0f8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d7e352cb7cfd0480dcdba8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings, all! The newsletter for March has been posted: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/march2010.php In addition to news from in and around the SWG, we have the usual excellent columns and comics to look forward to. In honor of Back to Middle-earth Month, Oshun's character biography this month discusses Celebrimbor, one of the few characters well-known to fans of both *The Silmarillion* and *The Lord of the Rings.* Celebrimbor's character has one of the most complex textual histories of all of Tolkien's characters in addition to acting as a fascinating example of how Tolkien used his stories to comment on his beliefs about technology. In this month's "Linguistic Foolery," Darth Fingon discusses an issue important to all of us who write based on Tolkien's world: how to name So-and-So's sister or the guard with one line of dialogue--in other words, how to take on the sometimes scary task of naming your original characters. There are far more options beyond sticking an *ion* onto the end of a name and making your OC the son of somebody, and this article provides some valuable how-to's (and how-not-to's) for naming characters. Finally, Pandemonium's ongoing comic series on Maedhros's rescue by Fingon continues this month. Fingon is about to do the bloody deed--but will help arrive in time to save Maedhros's life *and* hand? Check out "Gothmog and Draugluin" to find out! Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d7e352cb7cfd0480dcdba8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all!

The newsletter for March has been posted:

http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/march2010.php

In addition = to news from in and around the SWG, we have the usual excellent columns and= comics to look forward to. In honor of Back to Middle-earth Month, Oshun&#= 39;s character biography this month discusses Celebrimbor, one of the few c= haracters well-known to fans of both The Silmarillion and The Lor= d of the Rings. Celebrimbor's character has one of the most complex= textual histories of all of Tolkien's characters in addition to acting= as a fascinating example of how Tolkien used his stories to comment on his= beliefs about technology.

In this month's "Linguistic Foo= lery," Darth Fingon discusses an issue important to all of us who writ= e based on Tolkien's world: how to name So-and-So's sister or the g= uard with one line of dialogue--in other words, how to take on the sometime= s scary task of naming your original characters. There are far more options= beyond sticking an ion onto the end of a name and making your OC th= e son of somebody, and this article provides some valuable how-to's (an= d how-not-to's) for naming characters.

Finally, Pandemonium'= ;s ongoing comic series on Maedhros's rescue by Fingon continues this m= onth. Fingon is about to do the bloody deed--but will help arrive in time t= o save Maedhros's life and hand? Check out "Gothmog and Dra= ugluin" to find out!

Enjoy!

Dawn

-= -
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org
--0016e6d7e352cb7cfd0480dcdba8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3126 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85001 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2010 20:47:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2010 20:47:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.91) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2010 20:47:58 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 22284 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2010 20:47:45 -0000 Message-ID: <702294.76857.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: kv01dXUVM1mTQGHCIXtCAv0sqq6_YNYYGZjk62cPX49mvz5 9PvGuM5XY059UhxIORM32aYE345T1SDBTAgexaXghd9dNUQAzbAzjq3sxn1v tCKKEKYcjPfxGJawGL2W7tntZi52Q35Y4hxMEOFuLSRr3X3PlHTA01E0JM1S aQ6FI_iho2_dHorL9nBlEgZSs2uJPNRuJju6wAiqeCNWq.GpqsPkHwZ09DM1 MOGx3j0tEfjJHE9flGgK24rBxbLg.GV8TLGE05fbYAnaTUWFx4ACAhWk14YT Xt97T3CtaKC8P9WIS X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:47:45 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/300.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 12:47:45 -0800 (PST) To: Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild , lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com, open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, SoA , leaf_and_stone@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2096998747-1268081265=:76857" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Alassante7 Subject: A_Long_Expected_Contest April's Theme - 'I Would Do Anything for Love, But I Won't Do That' X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=eYX3y_XQiblJn0wwfwEwOdjzKoRUTNmg6aF3pY9Hd05PW_Tkvw X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-2096998747-1268081265=:76857 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C2=A0 ~~**~~ >I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 = >JRR Tolkien >=C2=A0 >=C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:= =C2=A6:- >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4= =C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 >=C2=B0=C2=BA.. A= lassante.. =C2=BA=C2=B0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((= =C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- ----- Forwarded Message ---- From= : alassante7 To: A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups= .com Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 3:16:21 PM Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest]= April's Theme - 'I Would Do Anything for Love, But I Won't Do That' =C2= =A0 Here's April's theme a little early! Inspired by the song by Meatloaf = (don't ask lol), the theme for April is: 'I Would Do Anything for Love, Bu= t I Won't Do That' =C2=A0 I figured this could bring in some very interesti= ng stories! lol =C2=A0 It doesn't have to be based on documented events=C2= =A0and=C2=A0need to be based on an actual character in the books. Each writ= er has until April 30 by 12:00 AM PST to turn in the story to alec_votecoor= dinato r@yahoo.com. Please include the proper formatting for LJ. I'm post= ing the instructions in the group under files, if you have any questions. = Good luck and happy writing! Don't forget - February's 'Forbidden Love'ar= e posted and need some votes! I'm going to extend voting until March 15th i= nstead of the 9th!!! =C2=A0 --0-2096998747-1268081265=:76857 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 
<= FONT face=3DArial color=3D#002f80 size=3D3>
~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall ta= ke my revenge. 
JRR Tol= kien
<= /EM> 
=  ..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))   -:=C2=A6:-=
      &nb= sp; =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4  .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))  -:|:-&= nbsp;
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante= = =C2=BA=C2=B0
    -:=C2=A6:-    ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.= =C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|:-
<= /DIV>


----- Forwarded Message ----
F= rom: alassante7
To: A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.c= om
Sent: Mon, March 8, 2= 010 3:16:21 PM
Subject: = [A_Long_Expected_Contest] April's Theme - 'I Would Do Anything for Love, Bu= t I Won't Do That'

 

Here's April's theme a little early! Inspire= d by the song by Meatloaf (don't ask lol), the theme for April is:

'I Would Do Anything for Love,= But I Won't Do That'

 

I figured this could bring in some very interesting sto= ries! lol

 

It doesn't have to be based on documented events = and need to be based on an actual character in the books. Each writer = has until April 30 by 12:00 AM PST to = turn in the story to alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com.

Please include the proper= formatting for LJ. I'm posting the instructions in the group under files, = if you have any questions.


Good lu= ck and happy writing!


Don't forget - February's 'Forbidden Love' are posted and need some vot= es! I'm going to extend voting until March 15th instead of the 9th!!!

 

<= STYLE type=3Dtext/css>

--0-2096998747-1268081265=:76857-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3127 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40814 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2010 02:44:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2010 02:44:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f41.google.com) (74.125.82.41) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2010 02:44:38 -0000 X-Received: by wwg30 with SMTP id 30so2958471wwg.14 for ; Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:44:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.87.140 with SMTP id y12mr3392628wee.36.1268102674254; Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:44:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 21:44:34 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d5667a700bd704815529a0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM Week One Stories and Challenges X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xcZoGKBPwKJ1dkD81XQhCyyffFiBAtQ8rTDLG92kwrou81CjT5IE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d5667a700bd704815529a0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings unto the people of Arda! This past week has been one of great ex= citement as we build up to the Final Battle. Our heroes have taken on all m= anner of tasks, from seeking ancient texts to visiting the long-lost island= of N=C3=BAmenor to recovering legendary weapons and treasures. In the proc= ess, we have attained a considerable collection of stories spanning all the= ages of Arda, and we hope that you will join us to hear a few of them. For= those of you interested in undertaking your own creative challenges this m= onth but who cannot participate in our quest, I also include those challeng= es undertaken by our participants at the end. Enjoy the stories! Ornisso = the Unappreciated Tavernkeeper and Loremaster of Fingolfin -- B2MeM 2010-= -Week One Challenge Responses Armageddon Will Not Be Televized by Dwimorde= ne. B2MEM2010 entries. First up: Halbarad arrives... he's not sure where. 1= . No Man's Land http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory= .php?sid=3D12 Each Familiar Bough by Peregrin Ionad. Celeborn makes his wa= y across the sea. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewsto= ry.php?sid=3D25 Eight Months Till November by Celeritas. Music lessons tak= e on a new meaning to the Heir of Buck Hill. http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D13 Hunger by May. Maedhros and his= brother, Maglor, are all that are left of the oath takers, and then there = is only one. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.ph= p?sid=3D22 A Lie in the Making by Leianora. Maeglin's thoughts during his = cousin's wedding. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewsto= ry.php?sid=3D23 Like Dwarves in a Tree by Vilwarin. It is said that words = are mightier than the sword - especially when you are part of a proverb. Be= ing stuck in a tree has a more permanent result than Gandalf's company expe= cted. Some humour at the expense of the Dwarves. http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D11 Loyalty Above All by Zhie. = Ecthelion loves Glorfindel; Glorfindel loves Aredhel; Aredhel's niece loves= Tuor... well, at least one thing worked out right. Confessions and convers= ations between Lords of Gondolin in the communal baths. http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D24 Managing by Perkyand= proud. Glorfindel reflects on the beauty wrought from fear. http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D19 Old Horses by Cr= antz and Snacky A Lord of the Rings AU, in which Theoden is not killed in b= attle, but lives on for many good years, and in which Eowyn comes home to v= isit him, towards the end of those years. http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D26 On a Fence Near the Pond by Pearl = Took. Pearl Took is supposed to meet a special someone, but her day isn't g= oing as she hoped. Will she be able to save her special day? http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D18 Pearl's Garden = by Rhyselle. Young Pearl Took finds being stuck in bed in the height of sum= mer very trying, until her mother finds a way to bring the garden to the 10= -year-old hobbit lass. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/vi= ewstory.php?sid=3D10 Pillow Talk by Lyra. F=C3=ABanor can't keep some here= tical thoughts concerning certain customs of the Eldar to himself. His newl= y-wedded wife is less than amused... at first. Rated Teens because, well, i= t is Nerdanel and F=C3=ABanor's wedding night. Accordingly there is some ta= lk of sex, though nothing graphic. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/= b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D8 Rebuffed by MithLuin. The only thing worse= than a defeat is the humiliation of having to report your failure. http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D16 Regrets = Thought at the Party by Larner. A drabble of thoughts considered at the Par= ty. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D2= 1 The Singer by Independence1776. Late one night, Janelle encounters a mys= terious singer. Double drabble. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2m= em2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D15 Sometimes I Wish... by Celeritas. A set of n= ot-so-serious attempts to fulfill the B2MEM 2010 prompts, in an effort of t= he author's to maintain contact with her OC hobbits and the Fourth Age Shir= e they live in. This "Alternate History" account presupposes happier, AU co= nditions borrowed from Dreamflower's "Eucatastrophe" universe, in which the= Three Rings retained their power at the One Ring's destruction and Frodo (= and indeed anyone living in Aman) is allowed to return to Middle-earth afte= r having been healed. 1. The Birthday Party http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D14 Tempering the Madness by Alassan= te. Celebrimbor attempts to reason with his father. http://www.silmarillion= writersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D20 Temptation by Isabeau. D= isappointed in love, the Prince of Dol Amroth turns to the one who has neve= r failed him. A gap-filler for Captain My Captain. What happened at home th= e night Hethlin refused Imrahil. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2= mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D7 The Tree of Love by Mirach. Galadriel told A= rwen to meet her at Cerin Amroth... but someone unexpected comes instead. h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D9 Unr= avelling by Elleth. The Doomsman of the Valar sees many things. Elwing's li= fe is one of them. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewst= ory.php?sid=3D17 -- B2MeM 2010--Unlocked Challenges for Week One They sa= y music soothes the savage beast. Or does it? Write a story surrounding the= idea of music and music-making as something that does not calm and soothe = but, rather, energizes or antagonizes. Write a story, poem, or create an ar= twork from the point of view of a character who is drunk or otherwise under= the influence. Write a story, poem, or create an artwork from the point o= f view of a character who is drunk or otherwise under the influence. Creat= e a story, poem, or artwork that responds to the following quote: "The only= difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad." -- Salvador Dali = Show us a character having or coming to terms in the aftermath of a near-d= eath experience. Groupthink is a social phenomenon in which, during high-p= ressure situations, people abandon creative thought to go with the will of = the group. Create a poem, story, or artwork in which groupthink endangers a= group of characters. Utopia can be defined either as a place of ideal per= fection in laws, government and social conditions or as an impractical sche= me for social improvement. Write a story, poem or create an artwork about a= place or society that can be defined as utopia. Given the oft-spoken phra= se "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter," create a work of= fiction, poetry, or artwork in which a character occupies the gray area be= tween heroism and despotism. Look out a window. Write down four observatio= ns (e.g., the time of day, the weather, the scenery, types of activity). Se= t a story, poem, or artwork in a place that shares those observations. (You= may replace your observations with those more appropriate to the text, suc= h as replacing "lots of horse-drawn wagons" for "lots of cars.") Create a = story, poem, or artwork in which a character is stuck in a location for an = extended period of time. How does she or he cope with it? Unrequited love = is a popular theme in both Tolkien canon and fanon. Write a story, poem, or= create an artwork about unrequited love. En garde! This challenge is all = about weapons and weaponry. Write a story about a character's chosen weapon= , or learning how to use a weapon. Is the character a skilled fighter, or i= s learning to wield a weapon a bit of a struggle for him or her? Choose a = location in Arda and write down five defining traits of that place. Now cre= ate a story, poem, or artwork in which you show how that location influence= d the lives of the people in and around it. A character loses something se= emingly mundane that possesses great personal importance or value. What doe= s he or she do to recover it? A character is supposed to meet a friend at = an appointed time and place. Upon arriving, his or her friend is nowhere in= sight, and instead the character meets someone entirely unexpected. Choos= e a favorite novel, short story, or poem. Write down the first line from it= . Begin a story or poem using that line (or create an artwork that could be= inspired by a scene beginning with that line). If the line has names or pl= aces that do not appear in your story, you may substitute something more ap= propriate. Do you often regret what you've done? Write a story, poem or cr= eate an artwork where characters express regret or lack of it for their pas= t actions. Different cultures deal with their elders in very different way= s. Write a story, poem or create an artwork where a society's view of old a= ge is shown. Begin a story with a character on his or her way to deliver a= n unpleasant message to someone. From here, show us what transpired to brin= g the character to this moment. (You may or may not show the actual deliver= y of the message.) Write a story, poem or create an artwork that disproves= this statement: "Good breeding consists of concealing how much we think of= ourselves and how little we think of the other person." -- Mark Twain Cre= ate a story, poem, or artwork that responds to the following quote: "Of cou= rse it's happening inside your head, but why on earth should that mean that= it is not real?" -- Albus Dumbledore What are defining traits in a friend= ? Intelligence? Good humor? Integrity? Write a story, poem or create an art= work where a new friendship is built or old friends meet after a long time.= J.R.R. Tolkien often wrote about feasts and festivals, from the attested = festivals in pre-Darkening Aman to Bilbo's eleventy-first birthday party. W= rite a story, poem, or create an artwork involving a feast, festival, or pa= rty. A character disembarks from a boat or ship in an unfamiliar place. Be= gin a story, poem, or artwork at this moment. Show a scene in which a char= acter or characters acquire a meal. Sigmund Freud put forth the theory tha= t our psyche is controlled by the Id, the Ego, and the Super-ego and that o= ur minds are constantly in flux between these three powers. What is your ch= aracter's greatest goals? What great good do they long to do? How do they d= eal with their current reality? And what primal urges and forces may be cau= sing temptations for your character? Show a conflict between two or more of= these drives and desires. Create a story, poem, or artwork that responds = to the following quote: "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afrai= d to laugh." -- Voltaire -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/h= eretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d5667a700bd704815529a0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings unto the people of Arda!

This past week has been one of gr= eat excitement as we build up to the Final Battle. Our heroes have taken on= all manner of tasks, from seeking ancient texts to visiting the long-lost = island of N=C3=BAmenor to recovering legendary weapons and treasures. In th= e process, we have attained a considerable collection of stories spanning a= ll the ages of Arda, and we hope that you will join us to hear a few of the= m. For those of you interested in undertaking your own creative challenges = this month but who cannot participate in our quest, I also include those ch= allenges undertaken by our participants at the end.

Enjoy the stori= es!

Ornisso the Unappreciated
Tavernkeeper and Loremaster of Fing= olfin

--

B2MeM 2010--Week One Challenge Responses

Arma= geddon Will Not Be Televized by Dwimordene.
B2MEM2010 entries. First up:= Halbarad arrives... he's not sure where.
1. No Man's Land
<= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?s= id=3D12">http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?si= d=3D12

Each Familiar Bough by Peregrin Ionad.
Celeborn makes= his way across the sea.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D25

Eight Months Till November b= y Celeritas.
Music lessons take on a new meaning to the Heir of Buck Hi= ll.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstor= y.php?sid=3D13

Hunger by May.
Maedhros and his brother, Magl= or, are all that are left of the oath takers, and then there is only one.http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php= ?sid=3D22

A Lie in the Making by Leianora.
Maeglin's tho= ughts during his cousin's wedding.
http://www.silmarillion= writersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D23

Like Dwarves = in a Tree by Vilwarin.
It is said that words are mightier than the sword= - especially when you are part of a proverb.
Being stuck in a tree has= a more permanent result than Gandalf's company expected. Some humour a= t the expense of the Dwarves.
http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D11

Loyalty Above All by Z= hie.
Ecthelion loves Glorfindel; Glorfindel loves Aredhel; Aredhel's= niece loves Tuor... well, at least one thing worked out right. Confessions= and conversations between Lords of Gondolin in the communal baths.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D24

Managing by Perkyandproud.
Glorfindel reflects on the b= eauty wrought from fear.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D19

Old Horses by Crantz and Sn= acky
A Lord of the Rings AU, in which Theoden is not killed in battle, b= ut lives on for many good years, and in which Eowyn comes home to visit him= , towards the end of those years.
http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D26

On a Fence Near th= e Pond by Pearl Took.
Pearl Took is supposed to meet a special someone, = but her day isn't going as she hoped. Will she be able to save her spec= ial day?
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/vi= ewstory.php?sid=3D18

Pearl's Garden by Rhyselle.
Young Pe= arl Took finds being stuck in bed in the height of summer very trying, unti= l her mother finds a way to bring the garden to the 10-year-old hobbit lass= .
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory= .php?sid=3D10

Pillow Talk by Lyra.
F=C3=ABanor can't keep= some heretical thoughts concerning certain customs of the Eldar to himself= . His newly-wedded wife is less than amused... at first. Rated Teens becaus= e, well, it is Nerdanel and F=C3=ABanor's wedding night. Accordingly th= ere is some talk of sex, though nothing graphic.
http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D8

Rebuf= fed by MithLuin.
The only thing worse than a defeat is the humiliation o= f having to report your failure.
http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D16

Regrets Thought at = the Party by Larner.
A drabble of thoughts considered at the Party.
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?s= id=3D21

The Singer by Independence1776.
Late one night, Janel= le encounters a mysterious singer. Double drabble.
http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D15

S= ometimes I Wish... by Celeritas.
A set of not-so-serious attempts to ful= fill the B2MEM 2010 prompts, in an effort of the author's to maintain c= ontact with her OC hobbits and the Fourth Age Shire they live in. This &quo= t;Alternate History" account presupposes happier, AU conditions borrow= ed from Dreamflower's "Eucatastrophe" universe, in which the = Three Rings retained their power at the One Ring's destruction and Frod= o (and indeed anyone living in Aman) is allowed to return to Middle-earth a= fter having been healed.
1. The Birthday Party
http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D14

Te= mpering the Madness by Alassante.
Celebrimbor attempts to reason with h= is father.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/v= iewstory.php?sid=3D20

Temptation by Isabeau.
Disappointed in= love, the Prince of Dol Amroth turns to the one who has never failed him. = A gap-filler for Captain My Captain. What happened at home the night Hethli= n refused Imrahil.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2me= m2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D7

The Tree of Love by Mirach.
Gala= driel told Arwen to meet her at Cerin Amroth... but someone unexpected come= s instead.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/vi= ewstory.php?sid=3D9

Unravelling by Elleth.
The Doomsman of t= he Valar sees many things. Elwing's life is one of them.
h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D17=

--

B2MeM 2010--Unlocked Challenges for Week One

They= say music soothes the savage beast. Or does it? Write a story surrounding = the idea of music and music-making as something that does not calm and soot= he but, rather, energizes or antagonizes.
Write a story, poem, or creat= e an artwork from the point of view of a character who is drunk or otherwis= e under the influence.

Write a story, poem, or create an artwork fro= m the point of view of a character who is drunk or otherwise under the infl= uence.

Create a story, poem, or artwork that responds to the follow= ing quote: "The only difference between me and a madman is that I'= m not mad." -- Salvador Dali

Show us a character having or comi= ng to terms in the aftermath of a near-death experience.

Groupthink= is a social phenomenon in which, during high-pressure situations, people a= bandon creative thought to go with the will of the group. Create a poem, st= ory, or artwork in which groupthink endangers a group of characters.
Utopia can be defined either as a place of ideal perfection in laws, gove= rnment and social conditions or as an impractical scheme for social improve= ment. Write a story, poem or create an artwork about a place or society tha= t can be defined as utopia.

Given the oft-spoken phrase "One m= an's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter," create a wor= k of fiction, poetry, or artwork in which a character occupies the gray are= a between heroism and despotism.

Look out a window. Write down four= observations (e.g., the time of day, the weather, the scenery, types of ac= tivity). Set a story, poem, or artwork in a place that shares those observa= tions. (You may replace your observations with those more appropriate to th= e text, such as replacing "lots of horse-drawn wagons" for "= lots of cars.")

Create a story, poem, or artwork in which a ch= aracter is stuck in a location for an extended period of time. How does she= or he cope with it?

Unrequited love is a popular theme in both Tolk= ien canon and fanon. Write a story, poem, or create an artwork about unrequ= ited love.

En garde! This challenge is all about weapons and weapon= ry. Write a story about a character's chosen weapon, or learning how to= use a weapon. Is the character a skilled fighter, or is learning to wield = a weapon a bit of a struggle for him or her?

Choose a location in A= rda and write down five defining traits of that place. Now create a story, = poem, or artwork in which you show how that location influenced the lives o= f the people in and around it.

A character loses something seemingly= mundane that possesses great personal importance or value. What does he or= she do to recover it?

A character is supposed to meet a friend at = an appointed time and place. Upon arriving, his or her friend is nowhere in= sight, and instead the character meets someone entirely unexpected.
Choose a favorite novel, short story, or poem. Write down the first line f= rom it. Begin a story or poem using that line (or create an artwork that co= uld be inspired by a scene beginning with that line). If the line has names= or places that do not appear in your story, you may substitute something m= ore appropriate.

Do you often regret what you've done? Write a = story, poem or create an artwork where characters express regret or lack of= it for their past actions.

Different cultures deal with their elder= s in very different ways. Write a story, poem or create an artwork where a = society's view of old age is shown.

Begin a story with a charac= ter on his or her way to deliver an unpleasant message to someone. From her= e, show us what transpired to bring the character to this moment. (You may = or may not show the actual delivery of the message.)

Write a story,= poem or create an artwork that disproves this statement: "Good breedi= ng consists of concealing how much we think of ourselves and how little we = think of the other person." -- Mark Twain

Create a story, poem= , or artwork that responds to the following quote: "Of course it's= happening inside your head, but why on earth should that mean that it is n= ot real?" -- Albus Dumbledore

What are defining traits in a fr= iend? Intelligence? Good humor? Integrity? Write a story, poem or create an= artwork where a new friendship is built or old friends meet after a long t= ime.

J.R.R. Tolkien often wrote about feasts and festivals, from th= e attested festivals in pre-Darkening Aman to Bilbo's eleventy-first bi= rthday party. Write a story, poem, or create an artwork involving a feast, = festival, or party.

A character disembarks from a boat or ship in a= n unfamiliar place. Begin a story, poem, or artwork at this moment.

= Show a scene in which a character or characters acquire a meal.

Sigm= und Freud put forth the theory that our psyche is controlled by the Id, the= Ego, and the Super-ego and that our minds are constantly in flux between t= hese three powers. What is your character's greatest goals? What great = good do they long to do? How do they deal with their current reality? And w= hat primal urges and forces may be causing temptations for your character? = Show a conflict between two or more of these drives and desires.

Cr= eate a story, poem, or artwork that responds to the following quote: "= God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." -- Volt= aire

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d5667a700bd704815529a0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3128 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46191 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2010 00:57:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2010 00:57:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f65.google.com) (74.125.82.65) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2010 00:57:59 -0000 X-Received: by wwc33 with SMTP id 33so118531wwc.4 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:57:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.89.149 with SMTP id c21mr2549363wef.43.1268701033700; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:57:13 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7eefa70b88b0481e07ae2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM Week Two Stories and Challenges X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=svBRESbICHGjTqFQdEiHHDyOxuWum8uW9Ed3oLLj3j3bkrrlJb0i X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d7eefa70b88b0481e07ae2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Our adventures continue into the second week of Back to Middle-earth Month = as we seek everything from palantiri to Silmarilli to ancient books and anc= ient mariners. Yet as our adventurers prepare for the Final Battle, so do t= he Dark Foes, and Sauron has arisen once more in Eriador ... This week, th= e participants in this year's B2MeM have put together an impressive collect= ion of challenge stories from all eras and genres and about all races and c= haracters. In addition, if you'd like to try writing your own story but are= n't quite up for joining our quest, have a look at our unlocked challenges = here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.php?page= =3Dlocations. Challenges newly unlocked for Week Two are posted at the bott= om of this message. May the Light guide you in your journeys, Ornisso, lo= remaster of Fingolfin, Tavernkeeper, and occasional herald (With thanks to= Angelica for data collection! :) --- B2MeM Week Two Challenge Entries "= All the Faster" by openmeadow Why can't Aragorn learn that Mithrandir will = see through any story he might come up with? Bleeding across the floor prob= ably doesn't help his case though... http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D32 "Armageddon Will Not Be Televized" by = Dwimordene B2MEM2010 entries. *I hear the roar of a big machine Two worlds = and in between Hot metal and methedrine I hear empire down...* 2. "Lucretia= , my reflection" http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstor= y.php?sid=3D12 3. "The Post Office at the Corner of Time" http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D12&chapter=3D3 The rul= es of Gondolin affect the lives of everyone living there. For Ecthelion, th= ey effect both his life, and his potential love life as he wishes for somet= hing more with Glorfindel than is legally allowed. "Before the Fall" by E= lleth Not all is well in Valinor, and things are not what they seem below t= he surface. A retelling of the decline of Valinor, quite possibly AU. http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D39 "Buil= d Her World" by Crantz and Snacky A double-drabble, exploring one reason Ga= ladriel turned down Frodo's offer of the ring. http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D47 "Doggerel" by Isabeau Hethli= n's first days in Dol Amroth are not happy ones, at least in part because o= f a certain song. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewsto= ry.php?sid=3D30 "Final Voyage" by MithLuin A storm at sea can be cruel, e= specially when you do not know the fate of your loved ones -- something the= mariners of Gondor know all too well. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D41 "From Amazing to Maze" by Smaug and = Zhie. A poem about Moria. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010= /viewstory.php?sid=3D37 "I am Darkness" by Mirach I am darkness. I am hun= ger. I am Ungoliant... A visual story. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D29 "Inheritance" by Klose There was no = doubt Ereinion had the blood of kings flowing in his veins. C=C3=ADrdan jus= t had to make sure the boy stayed alive long enough to show the full extent= of it. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D46 "Loyalty and Love" by Zhie The rules of Gondolin affect the lives o= f everyone living there. For Ecthelion, they effect both his life, and his = potential love life as he wishes for something more with Glorfindel than is= legally allowed. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewsto= ry.php?sid=3D42 "The Monster from Your Nightmare" by Alassante A short sc= ene from my WIP Price of Redemption showing Celebrimbor after the kinslayin= g at Alqualond=C3=AB. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/vie= wstory.php?sid=3D44 "Oh, Mercy" by Lanyon AU/future-fic: In the present-d= ay, or soon after, Quendi have returned to our world in an attempt to shore= the defences of Arda against the threat of Morgoth. http://www.silmarillio= nwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D40 "Past, Present and Fut= ure" by E=C3=A4rill=C3=AB. What do we know about Oss=C3=AB? Violent (and un= cooth, probably), one-time traitor to the Ainur, loves the storm and the sh= allows of the sea and Uinen his spouse (and some might even question this).= .. Rather two-dimentioned, don't you think? This set of ficlets tries to fi= x it, hopefully. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstor= y.php?sid=3D28 "Peril Unforeseen" by Larner Legolas examines the true per= il he himself faces, having joined the Fellowship of the Ring. A triple dra= bble. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D43 "Reflections" by Perkyandproud Celebrian reflects on choices she's = made. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D34 "The Scrying Sphere" by Lyra A mysterious find at an archaeological= site in Northern Italy takes Will Parry back to the past... or allows him = a few interesting insights, at any rate. May contain spoilers for Philip Pu= llman's *His Dark Materials* trilogy if you haven't read *The Amber Spyglas= s* yet, so you may want to tread with care. http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D45 "Stuck in a Box" by May There's= the box and then there's outside the box. http://www.silmarillionwritersgu= ild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D48 "Treasure" by Independence 1776 = Elladan and Elrohir find something Elrond doesn't expect. http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D36 "Undue Patience" = by Celeritas Gandalf learns not to encourage hobbits in idle conversation..= . the hard way. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory= .php?sid=3D31 "Under the Influence" by Rhyselle "Under the influence" doe= sn't always have anything to do with wine, ale, beer or miruvor... as folks= in Tirion will discover. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010= /viewstory.php?sid=3D35&index=3D1 "Unexpected Allies" by Lirulin and Mira= ch Aragorn's adventure on Weathertop. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D33 "Witness to a Crime" by Dreamflower. = Gandalf makes a new acquaintance on his trek across the Shire. http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D38 --- B2MeM We= ek Two Unlocked Challenges Different cultures deal with their elders in ve= ry different ways. Write a story, poem or create an artwork where a society= 's view of old age is shown. "J.R.R. Tolkien often wrote about feasts and = festivals, from the attested festivals in pre-Darkening Aman to Bilbo's ele= venty-first birthday party. Write a story, poem, or create an artwork invol= ving a feast, festival, or party." They say music soothes the savage beast= . Or does it? Write a story surrounding the idea of music and music-making = as something that does not calm and soothe but, rather, energizes or antago= nizes. Write a story, poem, or create an artwork in which a character face= s a peril--profound or silly--while on a journey. Do you often regret what= you've done? Write a story, poem or create an artwork where characters exp= ress regret or lack of it for their past actions. Write a story, poem, or = create an artwork from the point of view of a character who is drunk or oth= erwise under the influence. Choose a location in Arda and write down five = defining traits of that place. Now create a story, poem, or artwork in whic= h you show how that location influenced the lives of the people in and arou= nd it. Storms can be both frightening and awe-inspiring. Write a story in = which your character experiences a storm. What are its aftereffects and how= does your character feel about it? "Good breeding consists of concealing = how much we think of ourselves and how little we think of the other person.= " -- Mark Twain Utopia can be defined either as a place of ideal perfectio= n in laws, government and social conditions or as an impractical scheme for= social improvement. Write a story, poem or create an artwork about a place= or society that can be defined as utopia. Show a scene in which a charact= er or characters acquire a meal. Look out a window. Write down four observ= ations (e.g., the time of day, the weather, the scenery, types of activity)= . Set a story, poem, or artwork in a place that shares those observations. = (You may replace your observations with those more appropriate to the text,= such as replacing "lots of horse-drawn wagons" for "lots of cars.") -- ~= oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d7eefa70b88b0481e07ae2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Our adventures continue into the second week of Back to Middle-earth Month = as we seek everything from palantiri to Silmarilli to ancient books and anc= ient mariners. Yet as our adventurers prepare for the Final Battle, so do t= he Dark Foes, and Sauron has arisen once more in Eriador ...

This w= eek, the participants in this year's B2MeM have put together an impress= ive collection of challenge stories from all eras and genres and about all = races and characters. In addition, if you'd like to try writing your ow= n story but aren't quite up for joining our quest, have a look at our u= nlocked challenges here: http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.php?page=3Dlocations. Challenges newly unlock= ed for Week Two are posted at the bottom of this message.

May the L= ight guide you in your journeys,

Ornisso, loremaster of Fingolfin, T= avernkeeper, and occasional herald

(With thanks to Angelica for data= collection! :)

---

B2MeM Week Two Challenge Entries

= "All the Faster" by openmeadow
Why can't Aragorn learn tha= t Mithrandir will see through any story he might come up with? Bleeding acr= oss the floor probably doesn't help his case though...
htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D32

"Armageddon Will Not Be Televized" by Dwimordene
B2= MEM2010 entries.
I hear the roar of a big machine
Two worlds and = in between
Hot metal and methedrine
I hear empire down...
2. &= quot;Lucretia, my reflection"
http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D12
3. "The Post Off= ice at the Corner of Time"
http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D12&chapter=3D3<= /a>
The rules of Gondolin affect the lives of everyone living there. Fo= r Ecthelion, they effect both his life, and his potential love life as he w= ishes for something more with Glorfindel than is legally allowed.

"Before the Fall" by Elleth
Not all is well in Valinor, and= things are not what they seem below the surface. A retelling of the declin= e of Valinor, quite possibly AU.
http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D39


"Build Her= World" by Crantz and Snacky
A double-drabble, exploring one reason= Galadriel turned down Frodo's offer of the ring.
http://w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D47

"Doggerel" by Isabeau
Hethlin's first days in Dol Am= roth are not happy ones, at least in part because of a certain song.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D30


"Final Voyage" by MithLuin
A storm at se= a can be cruel, especially when you do not know the fate of your loved ones= -- something the mariners of Gondor know all too well.
http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D41
=

"From Amazing to Maze" by Smaug and Zhie.
A poem abou= t Moria.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/vie= wstory.php?sid=3D37


"I am Darkness" by Mirach
= I am darkness. I am hunger. I am Ungoliant...
A visual story.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D2= 9


"Inheritance" by Klose
There was no doubt Er= einion had the blood of kings flowing in his veins. C=C3=ADrdan just had to= make sure the boy stayed alive long enough to show the full extent of it.<= br>http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.ph= p?sid=3D46


"Loyalty and Love" by Zhie
The rule= s of Gondolin affect the lives of everyone living there. For Ecthelion, the= y effect both his life, and his potential love life as he wishes for someth= ing more with Glorfindel than is legally allowed.
http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D42

"The Monster from Your Nightmare" by Alassante
A short scen= e from my WIP Price of Redemption showing Celebrimbor after the kinslaying = at Alqualond=C3=AB.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2= mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D44


"Oh, Mercy" by Lan= yon
AU/future-fic: In the present-day, or soon after, Quendi have return= ed to our world in an attempt to shore the defences of Arda against the thr= eat of Morgoth.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2= 010/viewstory.php?sid=3D40


"Past, Present and Future&q= uot; by E=C3=A4rill=C3=AB.
What do we know about Oss=C3=AB? Violent (and= uncooth, probably), one-time traitor to the Ainur, loves the storm and the= shallows of the sea and Uinen his spouse (and some might even question thi= s)...
Rather two-dimentioned, don't you think?
This set of ficle= ts tries to fix it, hopefully.
http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D28


"Peril Unfor= eseen" by Larner
Legolas examines the true peril he himself faces, = having joined the Fellowship of the Ring. A triple drabble.
ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D43<= br>

"Reflections" by Perkyandproud
Celebrian reflects = on choices she's made.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D34


"The Scrying Sph= ere" by Lyra
A mysterious find at an archaeological site in Norther= n Italy takes Will Parry back to the past... or allows him a few interestin= g insights, at any rate. May contain spoilers for Philip Pullman's H= is Dark Materials trilogy if you haven't read The Amber Spyglass= yet, so you may want to tread with care.
http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D45


&q= uot;Stuck in a Box" by May
There's the box and then there's= outside the box.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2m= em2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D48


"Treasure" by Indepe= ndence 1776
Elladan and Elrohir find something Elrond doesn't expect= .
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory= .php?sid=3D36


"Undue Patience" by Celeritas
Gan= dalf learns not to encourage hobbits in idle conversation... the hard way.<= br> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.p= hp?sid=3D31


"Under the Influence" by Rhyselle
&= quot;Under the influence" doesn't always have anything to do with = wine, ale, beer or miruvor... as folks in Tirion will discover.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstor= y.php?sid=3D35&index=3D1


"Unexpected Allies" b= y Lirulin and Mirach
Aragorn's adventure on Weathertop.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D33=


"Witness to a Crime" by Dreamflower.
Gandalf = makes a new acquaintance on his trek across the Shire.
http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D38
<= br>---

B2MeM Week Two Unlocked Challenges

Different cultures = deal with their elders in very different ways. Write a story, poem or creat= e an artwork where a society's view of old age is shown.

"J= .R.R. Tolkien often wrote about feasts and festivals, from the attested fes= tivals in pre-Darkening Aman to Bilbo's eleventy-first birthday party. = Write a story, poem, or create an artwork involving a feast, festival, or p= arty."

They say music soothes the savage beast. Or does it? Wr= ite a story surrounding the idea of music and music-making as something tha= t does not calm and soothe but, rather, energizes or antagonizes.

Wr= ite a story, poem, or create an artwork in which a character faces a peril-= -profound or silly--while on a journey.

Do you often regret what yo= u've done? Write a story, poem or create an artwork where characters ex= press regret or lack of it for their past actions.

Write a story, po= em, or create an artwork from the point of view of a character who is drunk= or otherwise under the influence.

Choose a location in Arda and wr= ite down five defining traits of that place. Now create a story, poem, or a= rtwork in which you show how that location influenced the lives of the peop= le in and around it.

Storms can be both frightening and awe-inspirin= g. Write a story in which your character experiences a storm. What are its = aftereffects and how does your character feel about it?

"Good = breeding consists of concealing how much we think of ourselves and how litt= le we think of the other person." -- Mark Twain

Utopia can be d= efined either as a place of ideal perfection in laws, government and social= conditions or as an impractical scheme for social improvement. Write a sto= ry, poem or create an artwork about a place or society that can be defined = as utopia.

Show a scene in which a character or characters acquire = a meal.

Look out a window. Write down four observations (e.g., the t= ime of day, the weather, the scenery, types of activity). Set a story, poem= , or artwork in a place that shares those observations. (You may replace yo= ur observations with those more appropriate to the text, such as replacing = "lots of horse-drawn wagons" for "lots of cars.")

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= /a>
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d7eefa70b88b0481e07ae2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3129 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95938 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2010 02:08:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2010 02:08:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f174.google.com) (74.125.82.174) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2010 02:08:35 -0000 X-Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38so2763078wyb.33 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:08:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.85.133 with SMTP id u5mr2446740wee.91.1269310114464; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:08:34 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d63fff7b85c504826e4a5d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month: Week Three Stories X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=zqzDBaYcyw_RiC03gmHaWnbPanwIi8On53BkoG5zqQJAM07OsThg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d63fff7b85c504826e4a5d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all! Once again, we have about two dozen new stories and artwor= ks inspired by all of Tolkien's books and created for this year's Back to M= iddle-earth Month challenge. In addition, anyone who wants to grab a challe= nge to inspire the muses, please do so--a list of challenges unlocked this = week is attached! Best regards, Dawn (Ornisso ;) -- ***New Stories!*** = "The Allure of the Bait" by May Maitimo's desires awaken to the temptation= that is Findekano. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/views= tory.php?sid=3D57 "And the Butterly Opened Its Mouth and Screamed" by May= Maedhros reflects on one event in his life. http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D65 "Armageddon Will Not Be Televi= zed" by Dwimordene Chapter Four: Mercy Steading Halbarad rides the revolvin= g elven door and bags him a T=C3=BArin. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D12 "Akallab=C3=AAth" by Mirach The las= t moments of Tar-M=C3=ADriel http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2= 010/viewstory.php?sid=3D75 "Coming to Utopia-- a true drabble" by Rhysell= e A refugee from Beleriand arrives at Tol Eressea in the wake of the War of= Wrath. Exactly 100 words. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem201= 0/viewstory.php?sid=3D61 "Darling, we are lost =E2=80=A6" by Mirach I've = told you... http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php= ?sid=3D54 "Earendil's journey to Khand" by Lyra Well, suddenly E=C3=A4ren= dil decided to set plotbunnies loose in my head, because surely his journey= through the desert deserves more attention than a challenge, a response, a= nd an e-mail. So this little spin-off story was born, loosely based on some= of the challenges but mostly just on, well, Khand and what E=C3=A4rendil d= id there. If that's compatible with the rules, I suppose these could be use= d for the battle against Sauron. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2= mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D70 "Endless=E2=80=A6" by Lirulin Feanor's sou= l is lost in the Halls of Mandos and in its own faded memories http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D55 "Every Year = a Little Stronger" by Peregrin Ionad. Legolas thinks upon his sea longing a= nd regrets. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php= ?sid=3D68 "Falling Stars and Forges: Gurthang Reborn" by Rhyselle Finrod = reaches Tirion and the Black Sword of Turin Turambar is re-forged... with h= elp from someone Finrod did not expect. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D69 "Hearing the Voice" by Rhyselle An = elf discusses a near-death experience. Does Lord Namo really summon the dyi= ng to Mandos? So short it's not even a drabble. http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D58 "His Whole World is in thos= e Hands" by Perkyandproud The Challenge was Hands. I went with sweet and re= miniscent. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?= sid=3D63 "Negotiations" by Independence 1776 Makalaur=C3=AB negotiates wi= th Maitimo to get something he wants. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D56 "A New Beginning" by Kaylee Arafinwie= l Niniel, Lady's maid to Galadriel meets Celeborn (and isn't too impressed)= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D50 = "Paradise Lost" by Isabeau The most perfect place can be ruined by a singl= e event. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?si= d=3D49 "The Price of Love" by Mirach After Aragorn's death, Arwen returns= to Cerin Amroth one last time. A companion piece to The Tree of Love http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D52 "Sile= nce" by openmeadow Alone in a cell, Legolas realizes that it is not the dar= kness that he fears most, but something entirely different. http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D51 "Sojourn of a M= ortal" by Earille We came, we stayed, and we died. But a treasure we left: = memories in mind. Colours paint, but we are the painter. Colours taint, but= we are the eraser. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/views= tory.php?sid=3D60 "Sometimes I Wish=E2=80=A6" by Celeritas A set of not-s= o-serious attempts to fulfill the B2MEM 2010 prompts, in an effort of the a= uthor's to maintain contact with her OC hobbits and the Fourth Age Shire th= ey live in. This "Alternate History" account presupposes happier, AU condit= ions borrowed from Dreamflower's "Eucatastrophe" universe, in which the Thr= ee Rings retained their power at the One Ring's destruction and Frodo (and = indeed anyone living in Aman) is allowed to return to Middle-earth after ha= ving been healed. 2. The Birthday Party http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D14 "Surprise Visit, S.R. 1349" by Drea= mflower >From the Tale of Years: Gandalf and Balin visit Bilbo in the Shire.= (a pair of drabbles) http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/vie= wstory.php?sid=3D64 "Tables Turned" by Lyra In the long, cold winter of I= II 1974, King Arvedui finds out how dramatically positions of power can cha= nge. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D= 62 "Too Many Years to Count the Stars" by Alassante Aragorn's age is a so= re spot. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?si= d=3D67 "Weapons Forged" by Larner In which we see the forging and bespell= ing of certain blades.... http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010= /viewstory.php?sid=3D66 "Walls of White" by Elleth Maeglin attempts to co= me to terms with the events following his arrival in Gondolin. http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D59 ***Challenge= s Unlocked This Week*** Have you ever felt totally lost? In a big city? In= a foreign country? Because somebody has left you alone? Write a story, poe= m or create an artwork where the character has to deal with loss--either ph= ysical or spiritual. Two characters with very opposite characteristics mee= t for the first time. J.R.R. Tolkien often wrote about feasts and festival= s, from the attested festivals in pre-Darkening Aman to Bilbo's eleventy-fi= rst birthday party. Write a story, poem, or create an artwork involving a f= east, festival, or party. Are you creative? Do you try to think outside th= e box or do you follow the beaten path? Write a story, poem or create an ar= twork where the characters have to act creatively to sort out a problem--ev= en if creativity does not come easy to them. The works of J.R.R. Tolkien p= resent complex (and sometimes contradictory) views of magic. In Letter #131= , he said that "The Machine is our more obvious modern form though more clo= sely related to Magic than is usually recognised," defining magic as someth= ing wielded in pursuit of power. In a draft of Letter #155, he defined a se= cond sort of magic as "not to be come by by 'lore' or spells; but ... an in= herent power not possessed or attainable by Men as such." Write a story, po= em, or create artwork that shows the use of one (or both!) types of magic. = Create a story, poem, or artwork that responds to the following quote: "If= you never flew why would you / Cut the wings off a butterfly?" -- Dave Mat= thews Band What are defining traits in a friend? Intelligence? Good humor?= Integrity? Write a story, poem or create an artwork where a new friendship= is built or old friends meet after a long time. Hands have been symbolic = of many things in various societies. Some even believe the path of our live= s are written within the lines of our hands. Write a story centered on the = theme of hands. A character loses something seemingly mundane that possess= es great personal importance or value. What does he or she do to recover it= ? Given that history is written from the perspective of those in power, wr= ite a story, poem, or create an artwork from the perspective of the powerle= ss minority. Choose a color. Create a story, poem, or artwork in which tha= t color dominates. Show us a character having or coming to terms in the af= termath of a near-death experience. "The only way to get rid of a temptati= on is to yield to it." -- Oscar Wilde Your character finds something that = she or he wants. Now create a scene in which your character attempts to mak= e an exchange or purchase in order to acquire that item. Create a poem, st= ory, or artwork in which groupthink endangers a group of characters. Creat= e a story, poem, or artwork that responds to the following quote: "How wron= g it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather = than to create it herself." -- Anais Nin -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://th= emidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d63fff7b85c504826e4a5d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all!

Once again, we have about two dozen new stories and = artworks inspired by all of Tolkien's books and created for this year&#= 39;s Back to Middle-earth Month challenge. In addition, anyone who wants to= grab a challenge to inspire the muses, please do so--a list of challenges = unlocked this week is attached!

Best regards,

Dawn (Ornisso = ;)

--

***New Stories!***

"The Allure of the Bait&= quot; by May
Maitimo's desires awaken to the temptation that is Find= ekano.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/views= tory.php?sid=3D57


"And the Butterly Opened Its Mouth a= nd Screamed" by May
Maedhros reflects on one event in his life.
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?s= id=3D65


"Armageddon Will Not Be Televized" by Dwi= mordene
Chapter Four: Mercy Steading
Halbarad rides the revolving elv= en door and bags him a T=C3=BArin.
http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D12


"Akallab= =C3=AAth" by Mirach
The last moments of Tar-M=C3=ADriel
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D75=


"Coming to Utopia-- a true drabble" by Rhyselle<= br>A refugee from Beleriand arrives at Tol Eressea in the wake of the War o= f Wrath. Exactly 100 words.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D61


"Darling, we ar= e lost =E2=80=A6" by Mirach
I've told you...
http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D54
=

"Earendil's journey to Khand" by Lyra
Well, sudde= nly E=C3=A4rendil decided to set plotbunnies loose in my head, because sure= ly his journey through the desert deserves more attention than a challenge,= a response, and an e-mail.
So this little spin-off story was born, loo= sely based on some of the challenges but mostly just on, well, Khand and wh= at E=C3=A4rendil did there. If that's compatible with the rules, I supp= ose these could be used for the battle against Sauron.
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D70
<= br>
"Endless=E2=80=A6" by Lirulin
Feanor's soul is lost= in the Halls of Mandos and in its own faded memories
http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D55

"Every Year a Little Stronger" by Peregrin Ionad.
Legol= as thinks upon his sea longing and regrets.
http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D68


"= ;Falling Stars and Forges: Gurthang Reborn" by Rhyselle
Finrod rea= ches Tirion and the Black Sword of Turin Turambar is re-forged... with help= from someone Finrod did not expect.
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D69


"Heari= ng the Voice" by Rhyselle
An elf discusses a near-death experience.= Does Lord Namo really summon the dying to Mandos? So short it's not ev= en a drabble.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem201= 0/viewstory.php?sid=3D58


"His Whole World is in those = Hands" by Perkyandproud
The Challenge was Hands. I went with sweet = and reminiscent.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem= 2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D63


"Negotiations" by Ind= ependence 1776
Makalaur=C3=AB negotiates with Maitimo to get something h= e wants.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/vie= wstory.php?sid=3D56


"A New Beginning" by Kaylee A= rafinwiel
Niniel, Lady's maid to Galadriel meets Celeborn (and isn&#= 39;t too impressed)
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2= mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D50


"Paradise Lost" by= Isabeau
The most perfect place can be ruined by a single event.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D49


"The Price of Love" by Mirach
After Arag= orn's death, Arwen returns to Cerin Amroth one last time.
A companio= n piece to The Tree of Love
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D52


"Silence" = by openmeadow
Alone in a cell, Legolas realizes that it is not the darkn= ess that he fears most, but something entirely different.
http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D51

"Sojourn of a Mortal" by Earille
We came, we stayed,= and we died.
But a treasure we left: memories in mind.
Colours paint= , but we are the painter.
Colours taint, but we are the eraser.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D60


"Sometimes I Wish=E2=80=A6" by CeleritasA set of not-so-serious attempts to fulfill the B2MEM 2010 prompts, in an = effort of the author's to maintain contact with her OC hobbits and the = Fourth Age Shire they live in. This "Alternate History" account p= resupposes happier, AU conditions borrowed from Dreamflower's "Euc= atastrophe" universe, in which the Three Rings retained their power at= the One Ring's destruction and Frodo (and indeed anyone living in Aman= ) is allowed to return to Middle-earth after having been healed.
2. The= Birthday Party
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2= 010/viewstory.php?sid=3D14


"Surprise Visit, S.R. 1349&q= uot; by Dreamflower
>From the Tale of Years: Gandalf and Balin visit Bil= bo in the Shire. (a pair of drabbles)
http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D64


"Tabl= es Turned" by Lyra
In the long, cold winter of III 1974, King Arved= ui finds out how dramatically positions of power can change.
h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D62=


"Too Many Years to Count the Stars" by Alassante
= Aragorn's age is a sore spot.
http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D67


"Weapons = Forged" by Larner
In which we see the forging and bespelling of cer= tain blades....
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2= 010/viewstory.php?sid=3D66


"Walls of White" by El= leth
Maeglin attempts to come to terms with the events following his arr= ival in Gondolin.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2me= m2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D59


***Challenges Unlocked This We= ek***

Have you ever felt totally lost? In a big city? In a foreign c= ountry? Because somebody has left you alone? Write a story, poem or create = an artwork where the character has to deal with loss--either physical or sp= iritual.

Two characters with very opposite characteristics meet for= the first time.

J.R.R. Tolkien often wrote about feasts and festiva= ls, from the attested festivals in pre-Darkening Aman to Bilbo's eleven= ty-first birthday party. Write a story, poem, or create an artwork involvin= g a feast, festival, or party.

Are you creative? Do you try to thin= k outside the box or do you follow the beaten path? Write a story, poem or = create an artwork where the characters have to act creatively to sort out a= problem--even if creativity does not come easy to them.

The works = of J.R.R. Tolkien present complex (and sometimes contradictory) views of ma= gic. In Letter #131, he said that "The Machine is our more obvious mod= ern form though more closely related to Magic than is usually recognised,&q= uot; defining magic as something wielded in pursuit of power. In a draft of= Letter #155, he defined a second sort of magic as "not to be come by = by 'lore' or spells; but ... an inherent power not possessed or att= ainable by Men as such." Write a story, poem, or create artwork that s= hows the use of one (or both!) types of magic.

Create a story, poem= , or artwork that responds to the following quote: "If you never flew = why would you / Cut the wings off a butterfly?" -- Dave Matthews Band<= br>
What are defining traits in a friend? Intelligence? Good humor? Inte= grity? Write a story, poem or create an artwork where a new friendship is b= uilt or old friends meet after a long time.

Hands have been symboli= c of many things in various societies. Some even believe the path of our li= ves are written within the lines of our hands. Write a story centered on th= e theme of hands.

A character loses something seemingly mundane that= possesses great personal importance or value. What does he or she do to re= cover it?

Given that history is written from the perspective of tho= se in power, write a story, poem, or create an artwork from the perspective= of the powerless minority.

Choose a color. Create a story, poem, or= artwork in which that color dominates.

Show us a character having = or coming to terms in the aftermath of a near-death experience.

&quo= t;The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it." -- Oscar= Wilde

Your character finds something that she or he wants. Now crea= te a scene in which your character attempts to make an exchange or purchase= in order to acquire that item.

Create a poem, story, or artwork in= which groupthink endangers a group of characters.

Create a story, p= oem, or artwork that responds to the following quote:
"How wrong it= is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than= to create it herself." -- Anais Nin

--
~oOo= ~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org<= br> --0016e6d63fff7b85c504826e4a5d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3130 Return-Path: X-Sender: zhiester@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67986 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2010 02:21:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2010 02:21:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-yw0-f188.google.com) (209.85.211.188) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2010 02:21:08 -0000 X-Received: by ywh26 with SMTP id 26so923982ywh.1 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:20:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.91.28.20 with SMTP id f20mr972025agj.114.1269483652574; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 21:20:52 -0500 Message-ID: <511ea891003241920i55caaa4fs7399a10de02e3f10@mail.gmail.com> To: LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f81260291faa048296b276 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Zhie Subject: Proposed B2MEM Chat Gathering X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=229155743; y=sY3t_PTzIwQRxGLiKlERTxbex1u4QDNbt3WJ_E0NAzaWy-jONc4 X-Yahoo-Profile: jubatus_rex --001485f81260291faa048296b276 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sorry for sending this generally to both lists, but this seemed the best/fastest way to propose this idea, and I'm assuming most people participating in B2MEM are in one of these two groups. Normally on Friday nights, I host an elf chat on yahoo IM. This Friday, I got the idea that it could be a good idea to turn it into a B2MEM chat instead. Then, I was also thinking, one of the members of the team I'm on isn't able to utilize the yahoo chat, so for chatting in groups we use the AOL chat room feature. How many people would be interested in a AOL chat room gathering, for brainstorming purposes? I know, I know, we each have our own teams, but over the next three days, the goal my husband and I have is to write and create as much stuff as we can for the purpose of kicking some Dark Lord bootie, and I always find I write best and get great ideas from being in a group. I'm putting forth the idea of 6pm to 11pm CST, mostly because that's the time I know I could offer to host, but if there's enough interest it could potentially keep going and rolling along into the wee hours. So.. anybody interested in some real time B2MEM plotting and chatting and camaraderie this Friday night? -Zhie of Team Glorfindel -- Tales from Valinor... they're magically delicious... http://phoenix.zhie.us They're always after me purple bunnies... --001485f81260291faa048296b276 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for sending this generally to both lists, but this seemed the best/fa= stest way to propose this idea, and I'm assuming most people participat= ing in B2MEM are in one of these two groups.

Normally on Friday nigh= ts, I host an elf chat on yahoo IM.=A0 This Friday, I got the idea that it = could be a good idea to turn it into a B2MEM chat instead.

Then, I = was also thinking, one of the members of the team I'm on isn't able= to utilize the yahoo chat, so for chatting in groups we use the AOL chat r= oom feature.

How many people would be interested in a AOL chat room = gathering, for brainstorming purposes?=A0 I know, I know, we each have our = own teams, but over the next three days, the goal my husband and I have is = to write and create as much stuff as we can for the purpose of kicking some= Dark Lord bootie, and I always find I write best and get great ideas from = being in a group.

I'm putting forth the idea of 6pm to 11pm CST= , mostly because that's the time I know I could offer to host, but if t= here's enough interest it could potentially keep going and rolling alon= g into the wee hours.=A0 So.. anybody interested in some real time B2MEM pl= otting and chatting and camaraderie this Friday night?

-Zhie of Te= am Glorfindel

--
Tales from Valinor... they're= magically delicious...
http://phoeni= x.zhie.us
They're always after me purple bunnies...
--001485f81260291faa048296b276-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3131 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82950 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2010 15:45:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2010 15:45:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f46.google.com) (74.125.82.46) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2010 15:45:20 -0000 X-Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15so5788066wwe.5 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:45:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.88.4 with SMTP id z4mr1400995wee.121.1269531919231; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:45:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <511ea891003241920i55caaa4fs7399a10de02e3f10@mail.gmail.com> References: <511ea891003241920i55caaa4fs7399a10de02e3f10@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:45:19 -0400 Message-ID: To: LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Cc: SilmarillionWritersGuild Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99efa13ac570482a1efba X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [LOTR_Community_GFIC] Proposed B2MEM Chat Gathering X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Szis5UAMT2adZwLqthpW2ZOYurKdpgCbD3PizeN-mfGdZYTQZjBg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d99efa13ac570482a1efba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Zhie, If you would like a game mod/petulant loremaster-type character around, I should be available for at least the latter half and possibly the first half as well. (I have tentative dinner plans with my art teacher, but I think I should be home by 7 CST.) Also, if you would like an announcement sent to all of the teams, just let me know, and I will do so. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d99efa13ac570482a1efba Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Zhie,
=C2=A0
If you would like a game mod/pe= tulant loremaster-type character around, I should be available for at least= the latter half and possibly the first half as well. (I have tentative din= ner plans with my art teacher, but I think I should be home by 7 CST.) Also= , if you would like an announcement sent to all of the teams, just let me k= now, and I will do so.
=C2=A0
--0016e6d99efa13ac570482a1efba-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3132 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38069 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2010 14:37:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2010 14:37:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da02.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.144) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2010 14:37:46 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o2UEbUTd013122 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:37:30 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id r.cde.64649f0b (55732) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:37:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from magic-d23.mail.aol.com (magic-d23.mail.aol.com [172.19.146.157]) by cia-md03.mx.aol.com (v127_r1.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD037-d9b44bb20ca5134; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:37:25 -0400 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:37:25 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_bafd.7506915b.38e366a5_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 207.200.122.3 X-AOL-IP: 172.19.146.157 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Reference question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=BeltkLgH8zPK8kBtSODIxXuooiZw7iydmxZcOW4ErNnktsjZRS5_ X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun --part1_bafd.7506915b.38e366a5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know I have asked this before. If I ever found the answer, I have lost it. Where, if anywhere, in the multitudous volumes of HoMe, etc. can one find the ages of Finwe's grandchildren? I have a lovely list I made myself a couple of years ago, more than good enough for most of my crack!ficcish stories, probably pieced together from online sources but not from places appropriate for actual reference. I want to cite in a character bio of Turgon that he and Finrod were born in the same year. But I need to reference it. Thanks! Oshun --part1_bafd.7506915b.38e366a5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I know I have ask= ed this before. If I ever found the answer, I have lost it.
&nb= sp;
Where, if anywhere, in the multitudous volumes of HoMe, etc.= can one find the ages of Finwe's grandchildren?
 
<= DIV>I have a lovely list I made myself a couple of years ago, mor= e than good enough for most of my crack!ficcish stories, probably pieced t= ogether from online sources but not from places appropriate for actual ref= erence.
 
I want to cite in a character bio of T= urgon that he and Finrod were born in the same year. But I need to referen= ce it.
 
Thanks!
 
O= shun
 --part1_bafd.7506915b.38e366a5_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3133 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36492 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2010 15:22:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2010 15:22:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f180.google.com) (74.125.82.180) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2010 15:22:10 -0000 X-Received: by wya21 with SMTP id 21so5491906wya.39 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:21:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.54.199 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:21:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:21:09 -0400 X-Received: by 10.216.89.202 with SMTP id c52mr2518039wef.84.1269962469188; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d64b18daa49a0483062d6b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Reference question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=TcerYZouNRea-iquh_gS21UruQmoHYjNTlbQMmZ_tIhR0NmdYrIl X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d64b18daa49a0483062d6b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 It's in HoMe X, in the *Annals of Aman* (p. 106 in my version) but in a note as part of "Commentary on the Fourth Section of the Annals of Aman," not the main timeline: After the annal for 1280 the following Beleriandic entries were added: 1300 Daeron, loremaster of Thingol, contrives the Runes. Turgon, son of Fingolfin, and Inglor, son of Finrod, born. (Inglor, of course, was the name JRRT was using for Finrod at the time. To keep things as confusing as possible, Finrod is the name he was using for Finarfin.) Hope that helps! :) Dawn On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:37 AM, wrote: > > > I want to cite in a character bio of Turgon that he and Finrod were born in > the same year. But I need to reference it. > > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > --0016e6d64b18daa49a0483062d6b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's in HoMe X, in the Annals of Aman (p. 106 in my versi= on) but in a note as part of "Commentary on the Fourth Section of the = Annals of Aman," not the main timeline:
=C2=A0
A= fter the annal for 1280 the following Beleriandic entries were added:
=
1300 Daeron, loremaster of Thingol, contrives the Runes.
T= urgon, son of Fingolfin, and Inglor, son of Finrod, born.
=C2=A0=
(Inglor, of course, was the name JRRT was using for Finrod at t= he time. To keep things as confusing as possible, Finrod is the name he was= using for Finarfin.)
=C2=A0
Hope that helps! :)
=C2=A0
Dawn

On T= ue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:37 AM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
I want to cite in a character bio of Turgo= n that he and Finrod were born in the same year. But I need to reference it= .
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
--0016e6d64b18daa49a0483062d6b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3134 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78141 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2010 15:33:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2010 15:33:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma01.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.39) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2010 15:33:55 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o2UFXUCq026943 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:33:30 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id r.d47.5c0b7ba8 (34940) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:33:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from magic-d23.mail.aol.com (magic-d23.mail.aol.com [172.19.146.157]) by cia-da05.mx.aol.com (v127_r1.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA051-887c4bb219c4195; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:33:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1059c.3b4317ef.38e373c4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:33:24 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1059c.3b4317ef.38e373c4_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 207.200.122.3 X-AOL-IP: 172.19.146.157 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Reference question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=6D__Krv68JMLgcAOHrE_G9q8Twg1mYBfwmGXxye77pmel1cT1tIf X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun --part1_1059c.3b4317ef.38e373c4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Dawn! I owe you for this one! (Not that I am not already indebted to you = beyond any hopes of ever becoming even!) Thank you so much. (Inglor, = of course, was the name JRRT was using for Finrod at the time. To keep th= ings as confusing as possible, Finrod is the name he was using for Finarf= in.) Oh yeah! I love that stuff! I am getting really good at the evol= ving name usage finally (thank to doing these bios!). I hardly even blink= anymore. It's in HoMe X, in the Annals of Aman (p. 106 in my vers= ion) but in a note as part of "Commentary on the Fourth Section of the An= nals of Aman," not the main timeline: After the annal for 1280 the foll= owing Beleriandic entries were added: 1300 Daeron, loremaster of Thingol, = contrives the Runes. Turgon, son of Fingolfin, and Inglor, son of Finrod, b= orn. (Inglor, of course, was the name JRRT was using for Finrod at the ti= me. To keep things as confusing as possible, Finrod is the name he was us= ing for Finarfin.) Hope that helps! :) Dawn On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at= 10:37 AM, <_heartofoshun@heartof_ (mailto:heartofoshun@aol.com) > wrote:= I want to cite in a character bio of Turgon that he and Finrod we= re born in the same year. But I need to reference it. -- ~o= Oo~ Dawn Felagund _http://themidhavenshttp://themidhttp://them_ (http://th= emidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/) _http://www.silmarilhttp://www.silmaht= tp_ (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/) --part1_1059c.3b4317ef.38e373c4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =
 
= Dawn! I owe you for this one! (Not that I am not already indebted to you b= eyond any hopes of ever becoming even!) Thank you so much.
 = ;
(Inglor, of course, was the name JRRT was using for F= inrod at the time. To keep things as confusing as possible, Finrod is the = name he was using for Finarfin.)
 
Oh= yeah! I love that stuff! I am getting really good at the evolving name us= age finally (thank to doing these bios!). I hardly even blink anymore.
 = ;

It's in HoMe X, in the An= nals of Aman (p. 106 in my version) but in a note as part of "Comme= ntary on the Fourth Section of the Annals of Aman," not the main timelin= e:
 
After the annal for 1280 the following = Beleriandic entries were added:
1300 Daeron, loremaster of = Thingol, contrives the Runes.
Turgon, son of Fingolfin, and In= glor, son of Finrod, born.
 
(Inglor, of cou= rse, was the name JRRT was using for Finrod at the time. To keep things = as confusing as possible, Finrod is the name he was using for Finarfin.)=
 
Hope that helps! :)
 
Dawn

On Tue, Mar 30, 2= 010 at 10:37 AM, <heartofoshun@aol.com= > wrote:
&nb= sp;
=
 
I want to cite in a charact= er bio of Turgon that he and Finrod were born in the same year. But I = need to reference it.
 
=
 

 --part1_1059c.3b4317ef.38e373c4_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3135 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85213 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2010 17:54:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2010 17:54:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f216.google.com) (209.85.219.216) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2010 17:54:21 -0000 X-Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so2024041ewy.8 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:53:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.54.199 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:53:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1059c.3b4317ef.38e373c4@aol.com> References: <1059c.3b4317ef.38e373c4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:53:19 -0400 X-Received: by 10.216.86.11 with SMTP id v11mr100860wee.219.1269971599358; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7e6810dfcc00483084ed4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Reference question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=iX9XjHMZ2g7FkivSd0K0IdC5585p4uHPGRpuDNLGIiskPmWzd0en X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d7e6810dfcc00483084ed4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 You're most welcome! :) > Not that I am not already indebted to you beyond any hopes of ever becoming even! This from the person who writes an essay for the newsletter *every flippin' month* ... ;) Cut-and-paste facts from my e-books is the least I can do! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d7e6810dfcc00483084ed4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You're most welcome! :)
=C2=A0
> Not that= I am not already indebted to you beyond any hopes of ever becoming even!
=C2=A0
This from the person who writes an essay for th= e newsletter every flippin' month ... ;)
=C2=A0
Cut-and-paste facts from my e-books is the least I can do!
=C2=A0
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
<= a href=3D"http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/">http://themidhavens.= net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d7e6810dfcc00483084ed4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3136 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99242 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2010 17:59:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2010 17:59:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma02.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.40) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2010 17:59:44 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o2UHxUq0025871 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:59:31 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id r.d8f.22e5b2c (43953) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:59:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from magic-m21.mail.aol.com (magic-m21.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.194]) by cia-dd01.mx.aol.com (v127_r1.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD012-abb14bb23c0036a; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:59:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1bd3e.65275920.38e39600@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:59:28 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1bd3e.65275920.38e39600_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 76.15.221.177 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.22.194 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Reference question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=EDs-0ecWYJ4oPEAZQbgE291sb6OULfyMzCAbyOSsYv1tcLWda41F X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun --part1_1bd3e.65275920.38e39600_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks again! Cut-and-paste facts from my e-books is the least I can do! I tried! I may consider myself a world-class Googlier, but I am less lucky at putting in the right parameters to get the result I want when searching those e-books. --part1_1bd3e.65275920.38e39600_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
 
Thanks again!
C= ut-and-paste facts from my e-books is the least I can do!
I tried! I may consider myself a world-class Googlier, but I= am less lucky at putting in the right parameters to get the result I want= when searching those e-books.
 --part1_1bd3e.65275920.38e39600_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3137 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90840 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2010 18:52:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2010 18:52:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f177.google.com) (74.125.82.177) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2010 18:52:59 -0000 X-Received: by wyf23 with SMTP id 23so2092119wyf.36 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:52:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.54.199 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:52:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1bd3e.65275920.38e39600@aol.com> References: <1bd3e.65275920.38e39600@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:52:58 -0400 X-Received: by 10.216.88.212 with SMTP id a62mr4261884wef.72.1269975178968; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d645596a80d80483092364 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Reference question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=cA3eB_k3H2jePQsqRsMtK08iCwjqjNLVjOI1ojzv4KW1G1VtPDo5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d645596a80d80483092364 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Okay, I cheated a bit ... I have a reference I'm working on that compares all of the timelines side by side. The timeline part is finished, so I just searched it to find the source, then searched the e-book from there. Sometimes being obsessive-compulsive about seemingly silly things like comparative timelines pays off! :D Dawn > I tried! I may consider myself a world-class Googlier, but I am less > lucky at putting in the right parameters to get the result I want when > searching those e-books. > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > --0016e6d645596a80d80483092364 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Okay, I cheated a bit ... I have a referen= ce I'm working on that compares all of the timelines side by side. The = timeline part is finished, so I just searched it to find the source, then s= earched the e-book from there.=C2=A0Sometimes being obsessive-compulsive ab= out seemingly silly things like comparative timelines pays off! :D
<= div>=C2=A0
Dawn
=C2=A0
I tried! I may con= sider myself a world-class Googlier, but I am less lucky at putting in the = right parameters to get the result I want when searching those e-books.
=C2=A0
--0016e6d645596a80d80483092364-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3138 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27055 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2010 01:30:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Mar 2010 01:30:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f171.google.com) (74.125.82.171) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2010 01:30:32 -0000 X-Received: by wyb32 with SMTP id 32so5785376wyb.30 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:30:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.54.199 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:30:31 -0400 X-Received: by 10.216.88.202 with SMTP id a52mr454386wef.101.1269999031689; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99ace262d8904830eb199 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month: Week Four Entries X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mSc4RzTv1GiSPcwiCs5sJc566rbXlJhPKqYR6H83mEUzLr-CV8Ef X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d99ace262d8904830eb199 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all! During Back to Middle-earth Month Week Four, we had two ch= allenges running and so quite a wealth of stories, poems, and artwork cover= ing all genres, races, and time periods. I hope you enjoy! :) Dawn (with = thanks again to Angelica for link collection!) -- *Week Four Entries *"A= kallabeth" by Mirach The last moments of Tar-M=C3=ADriel http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D75 "The Ale Has It" by= Crantz and Snacky Eowyn was just trying to prove a point about Gondorian b= eer. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D= 131 "And the Butterfly Opened its Mouth and Screamed" by May Maedhros refl= ects on one event in his life. Warning: Talk of death. http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D65 "Armageddon Will Not = Be Televized" by Dwimordene Chapter Five: The Standard-Bearers Oneiric adve= ntures, and Ornisso checks his insurance for an "Acts of God" clause. http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D12&chapter= =3D5 "Battle by the Lake" by MithLuin Barahir=E2=80=99s last night Warning= : Character Death and Gore http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem201= 0/viewstory.php?sid=3D128 "The Cats of Queen Beruthiel" by Elleth Beruthie= l's cats have done their share of inspiring superstition in the people of G= ondor. A photomanipulation. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem20= 10/viewstory.php?sid=3D130 "Cleansing Fire" by Perkyandproud Natural disas= ters happen, sometimes they can be helpful. http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D129 "A Choice of Life or Death" by = Larner A soldier from Angmar was dying of thirst in the wilderness behind t= he enemy=E2=80=99s fortress of Fornost, but was saved by fate. Now, he must= choose between death or.... http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2= 010/viewstory.php?sid=3D116 "Dagor Dagorath: A Poster" by Klose A movie po= ster decreeing the biggest natural catastrophe of all - the end of Arda. ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D94 "De= sign Flaw" by Isabeau Even the greatest of engineers occasionally misses so= mething... http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?= sid=3D127&index=3D1 "Follow Me" by Zhie Not sure why exactly, but I just t= ake Thranduil for the type of guy less interested in war than your average = Elf. A poetic argument with his father over war. http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D76 "For me." by Peregrin Ionad= A poem - Galadriel on life. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2= 010/viewstory.php?sid=3D133 "'Natural' disaster" by Lirulin Of the causes = of natural disasters... http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/v= iewstory.php?sid=3D82 "Raine in the Wonderland" by E=C3=A4rill=C3=AB Or, = =E2=80=9CRaine in the Land of the Angels.=E2=80=9D The adventure of a nine-= year-old girl alone in the land she had not thought to go to, but was deter= mined to survive with anything she had. If only she knew where she had land= ed and whom she had befriended... http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b= 2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D123 "Red" by Independence1776 Red: the color = that dominated the lives of the F=C3=ABanorians. http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D126&index=3D1 "Reluctant Warri= ors" by Rhyselle Before the Battle of the Five Armies, Fili and Kili are un= certain of their Uncle's choice to fight the Lakemen and the Elves. http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D124 "The Si= mple Truth" by Lyra The sad thing about "simple truths" is that they're nev= er that simple, as explored in three double drabbles. Daeron sees the truth= he's always clung to turn lie; Maglor fights for a truth he no longer beli= eves in; Amandil is forced to lie to keep his family safe. http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D79 "When the Storms = of Life are Raging (Stand by Me)" by Dreamflower For those who are not fami= liar with "my" Shire-universe, in S.R. 1433, the year after Merry becomes M= aster of Brandy Hall, Buckland suffers a devastating flood. I first describ= ed it in a drabble, "Lesson Learned: Spring Flood S.R. 1433" and later on, = after Hurricane Katrina struck my hometown I expanded on the event in "Hobb= it Aid" In this set of vignettes, various characters affected by the flood = find strength in thinking of those who are absent. http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D88 "Young Thranduil" by Smau= g Thranduil, battling orcs in the Dead Marshes following the death of his f= ather. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D120 *Sauron Defeated Challenge Entries * "Allegiance" by StarLight A fo= rmer Corsair muses on where his loyalties lie. http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D93 "Am I Alive?" by Larner Pippi= n and Merry share the wonder at finding each is alive in the wake of their = close calls with death. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/v= iewstory.php?sid=3D119 "The Attack on Dol Guldur" by Mirach Galadriel in b= attle http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D91 "Bargaining with a Brother" by Rhyselle A stubborn young Gondorian l= ass tries to obtain something she wants badly. http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D97 "Berilac's Errand" by Dreamfl= ower Berilac Brandybuck has an unpleasant message to deliver. http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D125 "The Broken S= word" by Mirach A poem about Narsil, that became And=C3=BAril http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D92 "Conquests and= Phantoms" by Elleth A young N=C3=BAmenorean of the host of Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4= n tells the story of the attempted conquest of Valinor. AU, dark themes. ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D102 "T= he Crimson Sea" by Smaug and Zhie The burning of the ships at Losgar, with = Feanor's own words along the border. The first 'chapter' is the finished pi= ece, but we are posting the preliminary work that went into this creation a= s well. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D117 "Crossing the Line" by May Music hath charms to soothe a savage bre= ast.... except when brother is pitted against cousin for the love of kin. h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D110 "= The Decision" by Rhyselle Andreth makes a decision regarding her love for A= egnor. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D122 "E=C3=A4rendil's journey to Khand" by Lyra Well, suddenly E=C3=A4re= ndil decided to set plotbunnies loose in my head, because surely his journe= y through the desert deserves more attention than a challenge, a response, = and an e-mail. So this little spin-off story was born, loosely based on som= e of the challenges but mostly just on, well, Khand and what E=C3=A4rendil = did there. If that's compatible with the rules, I suppose these could be us= ed for the battle against Sauron. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b= 2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D70 "Erukyerm=C3=AB" by Lyra Tar-Palant=C3=ADr= revives the custom of climbing the Meneltarma for the festival of Erukyerm= =C3=AB. To his regret, only few of his people care to come along... and aft= er decades of neglect, Manw=C3=AB apparently no longer bothers to drive the= rain-clouds away well in advance. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/= b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D105 "The Follower" by Elleth Fingon's search= for Maedhros, and an unexpected end. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D121 "Halbarad's Farewell" by Mirach Halba= rad's thoughts before entering the Paths of Dead http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D85 "Hearing the Voice" by Rhys= elle An elf discusses a near-death experience. Does Lord Namo really summon= the dying to Mandos? So short it's not even a drabble. http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D58 "Ladyfingers" by Cel= eritas The hands are just one more strange thing about her... http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D80 "The Last Reso= rt" by E=C3=A4rill=C3=AB Dark AU of the event in Sammath Naur. What was Fro= do thinking? Warning: Character Death http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D83 "Lives Apart" by Lyra After the War o= f Wrath, E=C3=A4rendil has a chance to meet his sons. The reunion doesn't q= uite go as expected. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/view= story.php?sid=3D84 "Loyalty in Question" by Zhie Egalmoth confronts King T= urgon over a long-standing law in the city of Gondolin, in hopes of betteri= ng the lives of his dearest friends. Third in the 'Loyalty' series -- and I= know, pushing it for stand alone at this point, but I'm in too deep now an= d people will be mucho unhappy if this isn't seen through. http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D103 "Maglor" by Dwim= For the Defeat Sauron challenge. Noldolant=C3=AB never was meant to soothe= , but it may one day heal. Drabble that goes along with the "Misericordia" = cycle. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D109 "Moving Forward" by openmeadow When solitude is as powerful as a fa= vored drink in excess. A follow up to "Water's Corruption" http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D104 "Of Victories an= d Memories" by Lirulin All Valinor is celebrating the victory over Sauron.= .. all except one maia. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/v= iewstory.php?sid=3D100 "One by One" by E=C3=A4rill=C3=AB Beren=E2=80=99s p= oint of view of the company=E2=80=99s imprisonment in the Isle of Werewolve= s. Warning: (seeming) nonchalance of death scene. http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D98 "Our Fall into Darkness" b= y Peregrin Ionad Two almost drabbles about human and elven treachery. http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D118 "Part= y on a Not so Lonely Island" by Leianora Bilbo's 132nd birthday bash! A pro= per Hobbit party... with Elven guests. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D106 "Perceptions" by Zhie When Gildor le= aves the council in Rivendell, Glorfindel makes an unpopular suggestion to = Elrond. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D115 "The Power of Music" by Lirulin and Mirach Aragorn discovers a beau= tiful harp among his posessions. But can he play it? http://www.silmarillio= nwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D90 "A Pretence at Civility= " by Larner Lalia the Great has her first meeting with Lobelia the Pretende= r! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D78= "Pride" by Independence 1776 F=C3=ABanor still does not regret. Drabble. = Warning: character death. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010= /viewstory.php?sid=3D99 "Self-Defense" by Isabeau Captain Andrahar takes h= is responsibility to teach Prince Imrahil's children to defend themselves v= ery seriously. But the youngest prince, Amrothos, presents a unique challen= ge. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D8= 6 "Silmarilli, Thy Bane Is Mine" by May Operant Conditioning Superstition = Maedhros' POV http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.p= hp?sid=3D113 "Sleepless on the Eve of the Battle of Osgiliath" by Rhyselle= A young ranger lies sleepless the night before the battle at Osgiliath. ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D73 "Th= e Slippery Slope" by May Help in a bottle is no help at all! http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D111 "Sometimes I W= ish=E2=80=A6" by Celeritas A set of not-so-serious attempts to fulfill the = B2MEM 2010 prompts, in an effort of the author's to maintain contact with h= er OC hobbits and the Fourth Age Shire they live in. This "Alternate Histor= y" account presupposes happier, AU conditions borrowed from Dreamflower's "= Eucatastrophe" universe, in which the Three Rings retained their power at t= he One Ring's destruction and Frodo (and indeed anyone living in Aman) is a= llowed to return to Middle-earth after having been healed. Chapters are in = chronological order, not the order in which they were posted. The newest ch= apter is entitled "Sentiment!" http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2me= m2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D14&chapter=3D4 "Strong Drink" by Isabeau Over-in= dulgence brings its own punishment... http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D114 "Swimming" by MithLuin In which a you= ng Elros and Elrond, ignorant of the details of the attack on the Havens of= Sirion, look up to Maedhros as a warrior. http://www.silmarillionwritersgu= ild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D87 "A Symbol of Strength and Care" b= y Leianora The hands of a hobbit. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b= 2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D107 "The Threads of Fate Connecting" by Mirac= h On the eve of the battle at Morannon, E=C3=A4rendil watches the hosts of = the West http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?si= d=3D89 "Treasure" by Isabeau What is worthless to some is precious to othe= rs. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D1= 01 "Water's Corruption" by openmeadow Recovery is slow to come, and accept= ance slower. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.ph= p?sid=3D81 *Challenges **All *of the challenges have now been unlocked an= d are available here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/vie= wpage.php?page=3Dlocations -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net= /heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d99ace262d8904830eb199 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all!

During Back to Middle-earth Month Week Four, we had = two challenges running and so quite a wealth of stories, poems, and artwork= covering all genres, races, and time periods. I hope you enjoy! :)

= Dawn

(with thanks again to Angelica for link collection!)

--=

Week Four Entries

"Akallabeth" by MirachThe last moments of Tar-M=C3=ADriel
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D75

"The Ale H= as It" by Crantz and Snacky
Eowyn was just trying to prove a point = about Gondorian beer.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org= /b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D131

"And the Butterfly Open= ed its Mouth and Screamed" by May
Maedhros reflects on one event in= his life.
Warning: Talk of death.
http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D65

"Armagedd= on Will Not Be Televized" by Dwimordene
Chapter Five: The Standard-= Bearers
Oneiric adventures, and Ornisso checks his insurance for an &quo= t;Acts of God" clause.
http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D12&chapter=3D5<= br>
"Battle by the Lake" by MithLuin
Barahir=E2=80=99s las= t night
Warning: Character Death and Gore
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D128

"= ;The Cats of Queen Beruthiel" by Elleth
Beruthiel's cats have d= one their share of inspiring superstition in the people of Gondor. A photom= anipulation.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem201= 0/viewstory.php?sid=3D130

"Cleansing Fire" by Perkyan= dproud
Natural disasters happen, sometimes they can be helpful.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D129

"A Choice of Life or Death" by Larner
A sol= dier from Angmar was dying of thirst in the wilderness behind the enemy=E2= =80=99s fortress of Fornost, but was saved by fate. Now, he must choose bet= ween death or....
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2= mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D116

"Dagor Dagorath: A Poster&q= uot; by Klose
A movie poster decreeing the biggest natural catastrophe o= f all - the end of Arda.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D94

"Design Flaw" by = Isabeau
Even the greatest of engineers occasionally misses something...<= br> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2= 010/viewstory.php?sid=3D127&index=3D1

"Follow Me" = by Zhie
Not sure why exactly, but I just take Thranduil for the type of= guy less interested in war than your average Elf. A poetic argument with h= is father over war.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2= mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D76

"For me." by Peregrin = Ionad
A poem - Galadriel on life.
http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D133

"'Na= tural' disaster" by Lirulin
Of the causes of natural disasters.= ..
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory= .php?sid=3D82

"Raine in the Wonderland" by E=C3=A4ril= l=C3=AB
Or, =E2=80=9CRaine in the Land of the Angels.=E2=80=9D
The a= dventure of a nine-year-old girl alone in the land she had not thought to g= o to, but was determined to survive with anything she had. If only she knew= where she had landed and whom she had befriended...
http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D123
<= br>"Red" by Independence1776
Red: the color that dominated the= lives of the F=C3=ABanorians.
http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D126&index=3D1

"Reluctant Warriors" by Rhyselle
Before the Battle o= f the Five Armies, Fili and Kili are uncertain of their Uncle's choice = to fight the Lakemen and the Elves.
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D124

"The Simp= le Truth" by Lyra
The sad thing about "simple truths" is = that they're never that simple, as explored in three double drabbles. D= aeron sees the truth he's always clung to turn lie; Maglor fights for a= truth he no longer believes in; Amandil is forced to lie to keep his famil= y safe.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/vie= wstory.php?sid=3D79

"When the Storms of Life are Raging (St= and by Me)" by Dreamflower
For those who are not familiar with &qu= ot;my" Shire-universe, in S.R. 1433, the year after Merry becomes Mast= er of Brandy Hall, Buckland suffers a devastating flood. I first described = it in a drabble, "Lesson Learned: Spring Flood S.R. 1433" and lat= er on, after Hurricane Katrina struck my hometown I expanded on the event i= n "Hobbit Aid" In this set of vignettes, various characters affec= ted by the flood find strength in thinking of those who are absent.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D88

"Young Thranduil" by Smaug
Thranduil, battlin= g orcs in the Dead Marshes following the death of his father.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D1= 20

Sauron Defeated Challenge Entries

"Allegia= nce" by StarLight
A former Corsair muses on where his loyalties li= e.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory= .php?sid=3D93

"Am I Alive?" by Larner
Pippin and M= erry share the wonder at finding each is alive in the wake of their close c= alls with death.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2me= m2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D119

"The Attack on Dol Guldur&qu= ot; by Mirach
Galadriel in battle
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D91

"Bargainin= g with a Brother" by Rhyselle
A stubborn young Gondorian lass tries= to obtain something she wants badly.
http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D97

"Berilac&= #39;s Errand" by Dreamflower
Berilac Brandybuck has an unpleasant m= essage to deliver.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2= mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D125

"The Broken Sword" by= Mirach
A poem about Narsil, that became And=C3=BAril
http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D92
=
"Conquests and Phantoms" by Elleth
A young N=C3=BAmenorea= n of the host of Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4n tells the story of the attempted conquest= of Valinor. AU, dark themes.
http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D102

"The Crimson Se= a" by Smaug and Zhie
The burning of the ships at Losgar, with Feano= r's own words along the border. The first 'chapter' is the fini= shed piece, but we are posting the preliminary work that went into this cre= ation as well.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem= 2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D117

"Crossing the Line" by Ma= y
Music hath charms to soothe a savage breast.... except when brother is= pitted against cousin for the love of kin.
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D110

"= The Decision" by Rhyselle
Andreth makes a decision regarding her lo= ve for Aegnor.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem= 2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D122

"E=C3=A4rendil's journey t= o Khand" by Lyra
Well, suddenly E=C3=A4rendil decided to set plotbu= nnies loose in my head, because surely his journey through the desert deser= ves more attention than a challenge, a response, and an e-mail.
So this= little spin-off story was born, loosely based on some of the challenges bu= t mostly just on, well, Khand and what E=C3=A4rendil did there. If that'= ;s compatible with the rules, I suppose these could be used for the battle = against Sauron.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem= 2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D70

"Erukyerm=C3=AB" by LyraTar-Palant=C3=ADr revives the custom of climbing the Meneltarma for the f= estival of Erukyerm=C3=AB. To his regret, only few of his people care to co= me along... and after decades of neglect, Manw=C3=AB apparently no longer b= others to drive the rain-clouds away well in advance.
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D105
=
"The Follower" by Elleth
Fingon's search for Maedhros,= and an unexpected end.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D121

"Halbarad's Farew= ell" by Mirach
Halbarad's thoughts before entering the Paths of= Dead
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/views= tory.php?sid=3D85

"Hearing the Voice" by Rhyselle
A= n elf discusses a near-death experience. Does Lord Namo really summon the d= ying to Mandos? So short it's not even a drabble.
http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D58
"Ladyfingers" by Celeritas
The hands are just one more stran= ge thing about her...
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org= /b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D80

"The Last Resort" by= E=C3=A4rill=C3=AB
Dark AU of the event in Sammath Naur. What was Frodo = thinking?
Warning:=C2=A0 Character Death
http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D83

"Li= ves Apart" by Lyra
After the War of Wrath, E=C3=A4rendil has a cha= nce to meet his sons. The reunion doesn't quite go as expected.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D84

"Loyalty in Question" by Zhie
Egalmoth confr= onts King Turgon over a long-standing law in the city of Gondolin, in hopes= of bettering the lives of his dearest friends.
Third in the 'Loyalt= y' series -- and I know, pushing it for stand alone at this point, but = I'm in too deep now and people will be mucho unhappy if this isn't = seen through.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2= 010/viewstory.php?sid=3D103

"Maglor" by Dwim
For th= e Defeat Sauron challenge. Noldolant=C3=AB never was meant to soothe, but i= t may one day heal. Drabble that goes along with the "Misericordia&quo= t; cycle.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/= viewstory.php?sid=3D109

"Moving Forward" by openmeadow=
When solitude is as powerful as a favored drink in excess.
A follow= up to "Water's Corruption"
http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D104

"Of = Victories and=C2=A0 Memories" by Lirulin
All Valinor is celebratin= g the victory over Sauron... all except one maia.
http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D100

= "One by One" by E=C3=A4rill=C3=AB
Beren=E2=80=99s point of vie= w of the company=E2=80=99s imprisonment in the Isle of Werewolves.
Warni= ng: (seeming) nonchalance of death scene.
http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D98

"Our = Fall into Darkness" by Peregrin Ionad
Two almost drabbles about hum= an and elven treachery.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D118
=C2=A0
"Party on a Not= so Lonely Island" by Leianora
Bilbo's 132nd birthday bash! A p= roper Hobbit party... with Elven guests.
http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D106

"Per= ceptions" by Zhie
When Gildor leaves the council in Rivendell, Glor= findel makes an unpopular suggestion to Elrond.
http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D115

&q= uot;The Power of Music" by Lirulin and Mirach
Aragorn discovers a b= eautiful harp among his posessions. But can he play it?
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D90
=
"A Pretence at Civility" by Larner
Lalia the Great has her= first meeting with Lobelia the Pretender!
http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D78

"Pri= de" by Independence 1776
F=C3=ABanor still does not regret. Drabble= .
Warning: character death.
http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D99

"Self-Defense&qu= ot; by Isabeau
Captain Andrahar takes his responsibility to teach Prince= Imrahil's children to defend themselves very seriously. But the younge= st prince, Amrothos, presents a unique challenge.
http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D86

&q= uot;Silmarilli, Thy Bane Is Mine" by May
Operant Conditioning Super= stition
Maedhros' POV
http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D113

"Sleepless on th= e Eve of the Battle of Osgiliath" by Rhyselle
A young ranger lies = sleepless the night before the battle at Osgiliath.
http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D73

= "The Slippery Slope" by May
Help in a bottle is no help at all= !
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory= .php?sid=3D111

"Sometimes I Wish=E2=80=A6" by Celerit= as
A set of not-so-serious attempts to fulfill the B2MEM 2010 prompts, i= n an effort of the author's to maintain contact with her OC hobbits and= the Fourth Age Shire they live in. This "Alternate History" acco= unt presupposes happier, AU conditions borrowed from Dreamflower's &quo= t;Eucatastrophe" universe, in which the Three Rings retained their pow= er at the One Ring's destruction and Frodo (and indeed anyone living in= Aman) is allowed to return to Middle-earth after having been healed.
C= hapters are in chronological order, not the order in which they were posted= . The newest chapter is entitled "Sentiment!"
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?s= id=3D14&chapter=3D4

"Strong Drink" by Isabeau
= Over-indulgence brings its own punishment...
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D114

"= ;Swimming" by MithLuin
In which a young Elros and Elrond, ignorant = of the details of the attack on the Havens of Sirion, look up to Maedhros a= s a warrior.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010= /viewstory.php?sid=3D87

"A Symbol of Strength and Care&quo= t; by Leianora
The hands of a hobbit.
http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D107

"The= Threads of Fate Connecting" by Mirach
On the eve of the battle at = Morannon, E=C3=A4rendil watches the hosts of the West
http://w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D89
"Treasure" by Isabeau
What is worthless to some is precious = to others.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/= viewstory.php?sid=3D101

"Water's Corruption" by o= penmeadow
Recovery is slow to come, and acceptance slower.
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D81

Challenges

All of the challenges have now be= en unlocked and are available here: http://www.silmarillio= nwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewpage.php?page=3Dlocations

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
<= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org">http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org
--0016e6d99ace262d8904830eb199-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3139 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68303 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2010 18:12:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Mar 2010 18:12:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-vw0-f44.google.com) (209.85.212.44) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2010 18:12:22 -0000 X-Received: by vws9 with SMTP id 9so169772vws.3 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:12:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.73.3 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:12:01 -0700 X-Received: by 10.220.88.81 with SMTP id z17mr1254336vcl.154.1270059121146; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, ofelvesandmenslash Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=0016e6470cf8c27b5d04831caec9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: OEAM Writer's Circle: Prompt One Finishing! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=KAJT8sl0XmVrPwLuzz44tMo5f0F9FJa1xt6QzeVoGKSF X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --0016e6470cf8c27b5d04831caec9 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6470cf8c27b5704831caec8 --0016e6470cf8c27b5704831caec8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 [image: OEAM-scroll-WC-banner-3.gif] Today is the final "official day" for the first prompt of the OEAM Writer's Circle. We have had some great stories (in varying fandoms!) posted this month so if you have anything to get in, post it on up. We will have a few day's grace period too for people finishing things up so feel free to post on this prompt until April 5, 2010. I know I have something I have to get done. So I hope to finish it on up. You can go to: http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/ To read the stories or post yours. You can also post yours on any of the yahoo groups associated with OEAM. Hope you have had fun with this one and we will work on the next one as soon as we can (hopefully posting that April 1, 2010). Please comment if you have any feedback about it. Cheers! --0016e6470cf8c27b5704831caec8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"OEAM-scroll-WC-banner-3.gif"
=


Today is the final "official day" = for the first prompt of the OEAM Writer's Circle. We have had some gre= at stories (in varying fandoms!) posted this month so if you have anything= to get in, post it on up. We will have a few day's grace period too f= or people finishing things up so feel free to post on this prompt until Ap= ril 5, 2010. I know I have something I have to get done. So I hope to fini= sh it on up. You can go to:

http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/

To read the st= ories or post yours. You can also post yours on any of the yahoo groups ass= ociated with OEAM.

Hope you have had fun with this one and we wil= l work on the next one as soon as we can (hopefully posting that April 1, = 2010). Please comment if you have any feedback about it. Cheers!
--0016e6470cf8c27b5704831caec8-- --0016e6470cf8c27b5d04831caec9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3140 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21418 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2010 03:25:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2010 03:25:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f49.google.com) (74.125.82.49) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2010 03:25:04 -0000 X-Received: by wwa36 with SMTP id 36so1127822wwa.8 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 20:25:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.54.199 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 20:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 23:25:02 -0400 X-Received: by 10.216.86.193 with SMTP id w43mr924622wee.16.1270178702935; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 20:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d644f563c9470483388616 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: April 2010 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=tj85VF4gg95m83pGWYezqs7k8KXmUsAEgpbEsK3UdwbHMtAf2tlO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d644f563c9470483388616 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings, all, The April 2010 newsletter is posted! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/april2010.php This month, Oshun's biography discusses Turgon the Wise. There is also a new comic from Pandemonium in the continuing saga of Fingon's rescue of Maedhros. And, of course, there is news from in and around the group--enjoy! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d644f563c9470483388616 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all,

The April 2010 newsletter is posted!

http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/april2010.php

This month, Oshu= n's biography discusses Turgon the Wise. There is also a new comic from= Pandemonium in the continuing saga of Fingon's rescue of Maedhros.
=
And, of course, there is news from in and around the group--enjoy! :)<= br>
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/he= retic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d644f563c9470483388616-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3141 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82566 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2010 04:52:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2010 04:52:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pz0-f193.google.com) (209.85.222.193) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2010 04:52:35 -0000 X-Received: by mail-pz0-f193.google.com with SMTP id 31so1214726pzk.33 for ; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:52:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.136.3 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 21:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 21:52:34 -0700 X-Received: by 10.141.3.3 with SMTP id f3mr4757152rvi.237.1270529554099; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenslash , LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=000e0cd116f0bfb0d904838a364e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: OEAM Writer's Circle: Prompt Two for April X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=V0hw7orWXOnaHrnikFK8lvxO1Z_PDl46ZCgRu1o5XDjU X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --000e0cd116f0bfb0d904838a364e Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd116f0bfb0d304838a364d --000e0cd116f0bfb0d304838a364d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [image: OEAM-scroll-WC-banner-1.gif] (This was posted on April 1 on the O= EAM LJ community. I am posting this to the yahoo groups so that everyone se= es this. The first prompt closed today and we are on to our second one...) = Here is the second prompt for April 2010. This prompt will run from April = 1 =96 April 30, 2010. You may post your stories throughout the month of Apr= il (and immediately) for this prompt and you may write more than one story = to fill this idea. There is no limit to how many you can submit. If you wou= ld like to write a series of pieces, that is great! Minimum length: 100 wo= rds, no upper length. Prompt 02: To write a description of a place from a= ny point of view. What is the landscape like, what is actually there. It ca= n be a topographical description, a city (depending on your universe) or so= mething that is hauntingly beautiful or that has been ravaged by war. Why i= s this place significant to your character or in your universe if there is = no character present? Get at the physicality of the setting and let us actu= ally BE there. The focus of your writing should bring out the *sense of pla= ce.* Ex: (from The Silmarillion by JRR Tolkien) * To the west of Thangoron= drim lay Hisil=F3m=EB, the Land of Mist, for so it was named by the Noldor = in their own tongue because of the clouds that Morgoth sent thither during = their first encampment; Hithlum it became in the tongue of the Sindar that = dwelt in those regions. It was a fair land while the siege of Angband laste= d, although its air was cool and winter there was cold. In the west it was = bounded by Ered L=F3min, the echoing mountains that marched near the sea; a= nd in the east and south by Ered Wethrin, the Shadowy Mountains , that look= ed across Ard-galen and the vale of Sirion. * (Chaper 14: Of Beleriand and = Its Realms) Of note: This is not limited to the Silmarillion/LOTR fandom.= Any of the OEAM fandoms are permissable. Please check on www.ofelvesandmen= .com or the profile for what will work. We will be archiving these on the O= EAM Site as a special section and when you post them on the LJ community, p= lease use the tag set up for this program, "OEAM Writer's Circle" as well a= s the "archive: yes" tag for the OEAM web site. Stories may also be posted = through the yahoo groups that are associated with OEAM (including the follo= wing groups - "ofelvesandmenslash" , < = LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com>, ). = If you are on LJ and would like to post to the OEAM community, you should j= oin here: http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/ Please use a fiction head= er for your story which includes: Title: Author: (Please include email add= ress.) Fandom: For: OEAM Writer's Circle Genre: (FCGen, FCHet, FCS, RPGen, = RPHet, RPS. Definitions are located below.) Characters: Rating: (G, PG, PG-= 13, R, NC-17) Disclaimer: (All stories MUST include a disclaimer) Summary: = Please go here for more complete guidelines on this: http://www.ofelvesand= men.com/Submission Guidelines.htm We hope that you have fun writing throug= h the month of April and let me, aglarien or chaotic_binky know if you have= any questions. Thanks you! --Jane (phyncke) --000e0cd116f0bfb0d304838a364d Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"OEAM-scroll-WC-banner-1.gif"
=


(This was posted on April 1 on the OEAM LJ community. I am po= sting this to the yahoo groups so that everyone sees this. The first prompt= closed today and we are on to our second one...)

Here is the secon= d prompt for April 2010. This prompt will run from April 1 =96 April 30, 2= 010. You may post your stories throughout the month of April (and immediat= ely) for this prompt and you may write more than one story to fill this id= ea. There is no limit to how many you can submit. If you would like to wri= te a series of pieces, that is great!

Minimum length: 100 words, no= upper length.

Prompt 02:

To write a description of a place = from any point of view. What is the landscape like, what is actually there= . It can be a topographical description, a city (depending on your univers= e) or something that is hauntingly beautiful or that has been ravaged by w= ar. Why is this place significant to your character or in your universe if= there is no character present? Get at the physicality of the setting and = let us actually BE there. The focus of your writing should bring out the <= i>sense of place.

Ex: (from The Silmarillion by JRR Tolkien)
To the west of Thangorondrim lay Hisil=F3m=EB, the Land of Mist, = for so it was named by the Noldor in their own tongue because of the cloud= s that Morgoth sent thither during their first encampment; Hithlum it beca= me in the tongue of the Sindar that dwelt in those regions. It was a fair = land while the siege of Angband lasted, although its air was cool and wint= er there was cold. In the west it was bounded by Ered L=F3min, the echoing= mountains that marched near the sea; and in the east and south by Ered We= thrin, the Shadowy Mountains , that looked across Ard-galen and the vale o= f Sirion.

(Chaper 14: Of Beleriand and Its Realms)

Of n= ote:

This is not limited to the Silmarillion/LOTR fandom. Any of th= e OEAM fandoms are permissable. Please check on www.ofelvesandmen.com or the profile for what will work.= We will be archiving these on the OEAM Site as a special section and when= you post them on the LJ community, please use the tag set up for this pro= gram, "OEAM Writer's Circle" as well as the "archive: y= es" tag for the OEAM web site. Stories may also be posted through the = yahoo groups that are associated with OEAM (including the following groups = - "ofelvesandmenslash" <ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com>, <LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.c= om>, <silmari= llion_fic@yahoogroups.com>).

If you are on LJ and would lik= e to post to the OEAM community, you should join here:
http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/

Please use a fiction header for your story which includes:
Title:
Author: (Please include email address.)
Fandom:
For: OEAM= Writer's Circle
Genre: (FCGen, FCHet, FCS, RPGen, RPHet, RPS. Defi= nitions are located below.)
Characters:
Rating: (G, PG, PG-13, R, NC= -17)
Disclaimer: (All stories MUST include a disclaimer)
Summary:
Please go here for more complete guidelines on this: http://www.ofelvesandmen.com/Submission= Guidelines.htm

We hope that you have fun writing through the = month of April and let me, aglarien or chaotic_binky know if you have any = questions.

Thanks you! --Jane (phyncke)

--000e0cd116f0bfb0d304838a364d-- --000e0cd116f0bfb0d904838a364e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3142 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20292 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2010 01:33:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2010 01:33:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f47.google.com) (74.125.82.47) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2010 01:33:20 -0000 X-Received: by wwb18 with SMTP id 18so329743wwb.34 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:33:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.23.211 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:33:19 -0400 X-Received: by 10.216.87.134 with SMTP id y6mr5859502wee.20.1271295199239; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d77e88c15ee404843c7a36 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM Week Five Stories (better late than never!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=oONxXXRn6HK4L4dxyP_CWfGSgzYXtmXaofMMUoVDRr3MCGKpx-aA X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d77e88c15ee404843c7a36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all, Here are (at last!) the Week Five entries for Back to Midd= le-earth Month. My thanks go to Angelica once again for collecting them, an= d that they are being posted so late is not *at all* her fault! :D She sent= them right on time, but I withheld posting them to allow for any late entr= ies, since this is the last list that I will be posting. We ended up with = close to 150 B2MeM entries in all manner of forms, genres, ratings, races, = and time periods! All of the entries can be found here: http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/browse.php?type=3Dtitles Week Five, specif= ically, asked participants to collaborate: to either work together on their= entry or to challenge each other. So, without any further ado, Week Five e= ntries: "Perceptions Redux" by Zhie. Drabbles that play off of the ideas i= n 'Perceptions', using a smattering of the prompts. Wrote these throughout,= but never had a point to 'use' them in the game. Also, the places that are= the chapter headings are anything but the place that the challenge is from= , if that makes sense. Just seemed like, with all the geography going on th= is year, to do something like this. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org= /b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D155 "The Last Adventure by E=C3=A4rill=C3= =AB. =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99m tired,=E2=80=9D said Bilbo. http://www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D154 "But Heed Me" by Ell= eth. For the 'Magic' challenge. Sauron tempts two N=C3=BAmenoreans to seize= power commonly unattainable to Men. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D153 "Five Things that Never Happened too = Maglor F=C3=ABanorion" by Elleth A character awakes frightened in the night= , why? Maglor, at any rate, has nightmares of might have befallen, had thin= gs gone but a little different. Five drabbles in 'five things that...' meme= style. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D152&index=3D1 "At Least It Was Elven" by Peregrin Ionad Glorfindel fin= ds himself in a bed that isn't his, in a room that isn't his and if things = couldn't get any worse, the body he's in isn't his either! http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D151 "Dreams of a Be= ardless Face" by Perkyandproud Gimli awakens to find himself...not himself!= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D150&= index=3D1 "In Confidence" by Zhie Two friends sit in a pub, discussing th= eir trials and tribulations, and how fate might have been kinder had choice= s been different. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewsto= ry.php?sid=3D149 "Half-brother in Blood, Full Brother in Heart" by Alassa= nte The confrontation in Tirion between Fingolfin and F=C3=ABanor led to F= =C3=ABanor being banned to Formenos. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D148 "Alternate Tapestries" by =C3=8Barill= =C3=AB, Lyra, MithLuin, Rhyselle Our brainstorming session resulted in so m= any ideas that we couldn't decide what to go with - so each of us explored = a different "What if" situation. Four different takes on the "Doors of Nigh= t" challenge: Maedhros considering a different outcome of Alqualond=C3=AB; = L=C3=BAthien choosing a different time to return to life; Gondolin is aband= oned before it is destroyed; Maglor makes a different story... end differen= tly. With bonus illustrations by Lyra, who once more has to apologise for t= he old "weekend =3D no scanner available" problem. http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D147&index=3D1 "The Changing= Sea" by Elleth Maglor recounts the quest of the Sons of Feanor and tells o= f his end. Warning for strangeness and semicanonical/ AU ideas and non-grap= hic character deaths. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/vie= wstory.php?sid=3D145 "Tales of the Ranger and the Slayer" by Leianora, Li= rulin, Mirach, openmeadow, Smaug, StarLight, Zee, Zhie A duel of words and = not swords. One night in the Hall of Fire, Aragorn and Glorfindel tell tale= s, some tall and some true. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem20= 10/viewstory.php?sid=3D135 "Memories" by Vilwarin Gilraen and Aragorn tal= k about the past. Could be considered the prologue to "Wait for me". http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D141 "Arma= geddon Hill Not Be Televized" by Dwimordene Chapters Six and Seven: In whic= h the Seventh Age must be defended and the courses of lives examined after = a nasty encounter with one of Morgoth's oldest servants. Chapter 6. N=C3=AD= =C3=B0h=C3=B6ggr http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstor= y.php?sid=3D12&chapter=3D6 Chapter 7. Perchance to Dream http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D12&chapter=3D7 "A Not= -So-Simple Misunderstanding" by Celeritas, Dreamflower, Larner, Peral Took = A young Pippin learns that some things cannot always be taken for granted. = http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D140 = "A portrait of the 'main character'" by Lirulin Here he is - the main behi= nd-the-scenes character... Melkor a.k.a. Morgoth http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D139 "The Deplorable Cult" by = Independence1776 A celebration of fandom. http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D138 "Slip Sliding Away" by May The P= syche: "id"/Makalaur=C3=AB: The uncoordinated instinctual trends. ("pleasur= e principle") "ego"/Findekano: The organised realistic part of the psyche. = ("reality principle") "super-ego"/Maitimo: The critical and moralising func= tion. ("the conscience") Warning: Incest http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D137 "Sometimes I Wish" by Celeritas A= set of not-so-serious attempts to fulfill the B2MEM 2010 prompts, in an ef= fort of the author's to maintain contact with her OC hobbits and the Fourth= Age Shire they live in. This "Alternate History" account presupposes happi= er, AU conditions borrowed from Dreamflower's "Eucatastrophe" universe, in = which the Three Rings retained their power at the One Ring's destruction an= d Frodo (and indeed anyone living in Aman) is allowed to return to Middle-e= arth after having been healed. Chapters are in chronological order, not the= order in which they were posted. The newest chapter is entitled "Riddles i= n the Sun." http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php= ?sid=3D14&chapter=3D3 "The End of the World as we know it" by Lyra A few = times throughout the month, I thought "... this would make a really cute ca= rtoon". Well, I'm trying to find out whether that's true now. I hope E=C3= =A4rendil won't be too angry with me. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D136 "GROUP PHOTO" by Mirach Say cheeeeee= eese... http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D134&index=3D1 "For Me" by Peregrin Ionad A poem - Galadriel on life. h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D133 = "Prices to be Paid" by Independence1776 Maglor attempts to run from the peo= ple hunting him. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstor= y.php?sid=3D144&index=3D1 "Week Five Ficlets" by Dawn Felagund Nerdanel a= nd Ornisso have each challenged the other to write ficlets for three challe= nges for Week Five! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/views= tory.php?sid=3D143 -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic= _loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d77e88c15ee404843c7a36 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all,

Here are (at last!) the Week Five entries for Back t= o Middle-earth Month. My thanks go to Angelica once again for collecting th= em, and that they are being posted so late is not at all her fault! = :D She sent them right on time, but I withheld posting them to allow for an= y late entries, since this is the last list that I will be posting.
We ended up with close to 150 B2MeM entries in all manner of forms, genres= , ratings, races, and time periods! All of the entries can be found here:
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/browse.= php?type=3Dtitles

Week Five, specifically, asked participants t= o collaborate: to either work together on their entry or to challenge each = other. So, without any further ado, Week Five entries:

"Percept= ions Redux" by Zhie.
Drabbles that play off of the ideas in 'P= erceptions', using a smattering of the prompts. Wrote these throughout,= but never had a point to 'use' them in the game. Also, the places = that are the chapter headings are anything but the place that the challenge= is from, if that makes sense. Just seemed like, with all the geography goi= ng on this year, to do something like this.
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D155


&q= uot;The Last Adventure by E=C3=A4rill=C3=AB.
=E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99m tired,= =E2=80=9D said Bilbo.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D154


"But Heed Me" = by Elleth.
For the 'Magic' challenge. Sauron tempts two N=C3=BAm= enoreans to seize power commonly unattainable to Men.
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D153
=

"Five Things that Never Happened too Maglor F=C3=ABanorion&quo= t; by Elleth
A character awakes frightened in the night, why? Maglor, a= t any rate, has nightmares of might have befallen, had things gone but a li= ttle different.
Five drabbles in 'five things that...' meme styl= e.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2me= m2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D152&index=3D1


"At Least = It Was Elven" by Peregrin Ionad
Glorfindel finds himself in a bed t= hat isn't his, in a room that isn't his and if things couldn't = get any worse, the body he's in isn't his either!
ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D151=


"Dreams of a Beardless Face" by Perkyandproud
Gim= li awakens to find himself...not himself!
http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D150&in= dex=3D1


"In Confidence" by Zhie
Two friends si= t in a pub, discussing their trials and tribulations, and how fate might ha= ve been kinder had choices been different.
http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D149


&qu= ot;Half-brother in Blood, Full Brother in Heart" by Alassante
The c= onfrontation in Tirion between Fingolfin and F=C3=ABanor led to F=C3=ABanor= being banned to Formenos.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D148


"Alternate Tap= estries" by =C3=8Barill=C3=AB, Lyra, MithLuin, Rhyselle
Our brainst= orming session resulted in so many ideas that we couldn't decide what t= o go with - so each of us explored a different "What if" situatio= n. Four different takes on the "Doors of Night" challenge:
Ma= edhros considering a different outcome of Alqualond=C3=AB;
L=C3=BAthien = choosing a different time to return to life;
Gondolin is abandoned befor= e it is destroyed;
Maglor makes a different story... end differently. With bonus illustrations by Lyra, who once more has to apologise for the = old "weekend =3D no scanner available" problem.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php= ?sid=3D147&index=3D1


"The Changing Sea" by Ell= eth
Maglor recounts the quest of the Sons of Feanor and tells of his en= d. Warning for strangeness and semicanonical/ AU ideas and non-graphic char= acter deaths.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem20= 10/viewstory.php?sid=3D145


"Tales of the Ranger and th= e Slayer" by Leianora, Lirulin, Mirach, openmeadow, Smaug, StarLight, = Zee, Zhie
A duel of words and not swords. One night in the Hall of Fire,= Aragorn and Glorfindel tell tales, some tall and some true.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D135<= /a>


"Memories" by Vilwarin
Gilraen and Aragorn talk= about the past. Could be considered the prologue to "Wait for me"= ;.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewsto= ry.php?sid=3D141


"Armageddon Hill Not Be Televized"= ; by Dwimordene
Chapters Six and Seven: In which the Seventh Age must b= e defended and the courses of lives examined after a nasty encounter with o= ne of Morgoth's oldest servants.
Chapter 6. N=C3=AD=C3=B0h=C3=B6ggr=
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem= 2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D12&chapter=3D6
Chapter 7. Perchance to= Dream
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org= /b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D12&chapter=3D7


"A N= ot-So-Simple Misunderstanding" by Celeritas, Dreamflower, Larner, Pera= l Took
A young Pippin learns that some things cannot always be taken for= granted.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/v= iewstory.php?sid=3D140


"A portrait of the 'main ch= aracter'" by Lirulin
Here he is - the main behind-the-scenes ch= aracter... Melkor a.k.a. Morgoth
http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D139


"The Dep= lorable Cult" by Independence1776
A celebration of fandom.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid= =3D138


"Slip Sliding Away" by May
The Psyche:<= br>"id"/Makalaur=C3=AB: The uncoordinated instinctual trends. (&q= uot;pleasure principle")
"ego"/Findekano: The organised r= ealistic part of the psyche. ("reality principle")
"supe= r-ego"/Maitimo: The critical and moralising function. ("the consc= ience")
Warning: Incest
http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D137


"Sometime= s I Wish" by Celeritas
A set of not-so-serious attempts to fulfill = the B2MEM 2010 prompts, in an effort of the author's to maintain contac= t with her OC hobbits and the Fourth Age Shire they live in. This "Alt= ernate History" account presupposes happier, AU conditions borrowed fr= om Dreamflower's "Eucatastrophe" universe, in which the Three= Rings retained their power at the One Ring's destruction and Frodo (an= d indeed anyone living in Aman) is allowed to return to Middle-earth after = having been healed.
Chapters are in chronological order, not the order = in which they were posted. The newest chapter is entitled "Riddles in = the Sun."
http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D14&chapter=3D3


&= quot;The End of the World as we know it" by Lyra
A few times throug= hout the month, I thought "... this would make a really cute cartoon&q= uot;. Well, I'm trying to find out whether that's true now. I hope = E=C3=A4rendil won't be too angry with me.
http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D136


= "GROUP PHOTO" by Mirach
Say cheeeeeeeese...
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?= sid=3D134&index=3D1


"For Me" by Peregrin Ionad=
A poem - Galadriel on life.
http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D133


"Prices t= o be Paid" by Independence1776
Maglor attempts to run from the peo= ple hunting him.
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org/b2mem2010/viewstory.php?sid=3D144&index=3D1


&= quot;Week Five Ficlets" by Dawn Felagund
Nerdanel and Ornisso have = each challenged the other to write ficlets for three challenges for Week Fi= ve!
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2010/viewsto= ry.php?sid=3D143

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhaven= s.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d77e88c15ee404843c7a36-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3143 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32621 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2010 05:04:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2010 05:04:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pw0-f41.google.com) (209.85.160.41) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2010 05:04:27 -0000 X-Received: by pwi2 with SMTP id 2so2648517pwi.28 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:04:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.126.3 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:04:21 -0700 X-Received: by 10.140.87.41 with SMTP id k41mr1318815rvb.109.1271567062039; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenslash , LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=000e0cd2de020a7c1104847bc7fc X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: Reminder! OEAM Writer's Circle: Prompt Two for April X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=EqvM5wjfGs4Kvtlc9DPk7i1CV4v5BUxPMKj3MuDK9Qc7 X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --000e0cd2de020a7c1104847bc7fc Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd2de020a7c0b04847bc7fb --000e0cd2de020a7c0b04847bc7fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [image: OEAM-scroll-WC-banner-1.gif] (This was posted on April 1 on the O= EAM LJ community. I am posting this reminder to the yahoo groups so that ev= eryone sees this. The first prompt closed today and we are on to our second= one...) Here is the second prompt for April 2010. This prompt will run fr= om April 1 =96 April 30, 2010. You may post your stories throughout the mon= th of April (and immediately) for this prompt and you may write more than o= ne story to fill this idea. There is no limit to how many you can submit. I= f you would like to write a series of pieces, that is great! Minimum lengt= h: 100 words, no upper length. Prompt 02: To write a description of a pla= ce from any point of view. What is the landscape like, what is actually the= re. It can be a topographical description, a city (depending on your univer= se) or something that is hauntingly beautiful or that has been ravaged by w= ar. Why is this place significant to your character or in your universe if = there is no character present? Get at the physicality of the setting and le= t us actually BE there. The focus of your writing should bring out the *sen= se of place.* Ex: (from The Silmarillion by JRR Tolkien) * To the west of = Thangorondrim lay Hisil=F3m=EB, the Land of Mist, for so it was named by th= e Noldor in their own tongue because of the clouds that Morgoth sent thithe= r during their first encampment; Hithlum it became in the tongue of the Sin= dar that dwelt in those regions. It was a fair land while the siege of Angb= and lasted, although its air was cool and winter there was cold. In the wes= t it was bounded by Ered L=F3min, the echoing mountains that marched near t= he sea; and in the east and south by Ered Wethrin, the Shadowy Mountains , = that looked across Ard-galen and the vale of Sirion. * (Chaper 14: Of Beler= iand and Its Realms) Of note: This is not limited to the Silmarillion/LOT= R fandom. Any of the OEAM fandoms are allowed. Please check on www.ofelvesa= ndmen.com or the profile for what will work. We will be archiving these on = the OEAM Site as a special section and when you post them on the LJ communi= ty, please use the tag set up for this program, "OEAM Writer's Circle" as w= ell as the "archive: yes" tag for the OEAM web site. Stories may also be po= sted through the yahoo groups that are associated with OEAM (including the = following groups - < ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com>, , < silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com>). If you are on L= J and would like to post to the OEAM community, you should join here: http:= //community.livejournal.com/oeam/ Please use a fiction header for your sto= ry which includes: Title: Author: (Please include email address.) Fandom: = For: OEAM Writer's Circle Genre: (FCGen, FCHet, FCS, RPGen, RPHet, RPS. Def= initions are located below.) Characters: Rating: (G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17) D= isclaimer: (All stories MUST include a disclaimer) Summary: Please go here= for more complete guidelines on this: http://www.ofelvesandmen.com/Submiss= ion Guidelines.htm We hope that you have fun writing through the month of = April and let me, aglarien or chaotic_binky know if you have any questions.= Thanks you! --Jane (phyncke) --000e0cd2de020a7c0b04847bc7fb Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


<= img title=3D"OEAM-scroll-WC-banner-1.gif" alt=3D"OEAM-scroll-WC-banner-1.gi= f" src=3D"cid:ii_127d173be543fdae">


(This was posted on Ap= ril 1 on the OEAM LJ community. I am posting this reminder to the yahoo gro= ups so that everyone sees this. The first prompt closed today and we are on= to our second one...)

Here is the second prompt for April 2010. T= his prompt will run from April 1 =96 April 30, 2010. You may post your sto= ries throughout the month of April (and immediately) for this prompt and y= ou may write more than one story to fill this idea. There is no limit to h= ow many you can submit. If you would like to write a series of pieces, tha= t is great!

Minimum length: 100 words, no upper length.

Prom= pt 02:

To write a description of a place from any point of view. Wh= at is the landscape like, what is actually there. It can be a topographica= l description, a city (depending on your universe) or something that is ha= untingly beautiful or that has been ravaged by war. Why is this place sign= ificant to your character or in your universe if there is no character pre= sent? Get at the physicality of the setting and let us actually BE there. = The focus of your writing should bring out the sense of place.
=
Ex: (from The Silmarillion by JRR Tolkien)

To the west of T= hangorondrim lay Hisil=F3m=EB, the Land of Mist, for so it was named by the= Noldor in their own tongue because of the clouds that Morgoth sent thith= er during their first encampment; Hithlum it became in the tongue of the S= indar that dwelt in those regions. It was a fair land while the siege of A= ngband lasted, although its air was cool and winter there was cold. In the= west it was bounded by Ered L=F3min, the echoing mountains that marched n= ear the sea; and in the east and south by Ered Wethrin, the Shadowy Mounta= ins , that looked across Ard-galen and the vale of Sirion.

(Cha= per 14: Of Beleriand and Its Realms)

Of note:

This is not li= mited to the Silmarillion/LOTR fandom. Any of the OEAM fandoms are allowed= . Please check on www.ofelvesandmen.com or the profile for what will work. We will be = archiving these on the OEAM Site as a special section and when you post th= em on the LJ community, please use the tag set up for this program, "= OEAM Writer's Circle" as well as the "archive: yes" tag= for the OEAM web site. Stories may also be posted through the yahoo groups= that are associated with OEAM (including the following groups - <ofelvesan= dmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com>, <LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com&= gt;, <silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com>).

If you are on LJ a= nd would like to post to the OEAM community, you should join here:
http://comm= unity.livejournal.com/oeam/

Please use a fiction header for you= r story which includes:

Title:
Author: (Please include email add= ress.)
Fandom:
For: OEAM Writer's Circle
Genre: (FCGen, FCHet= , FCS, RPGen, RPHet, RPS. Definitions are located below.)
Characters:Rating: (G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17)
Disclaimer: (All stories MUST include= a disclaimer)
Summary:

Please go here for more complete guidel= ines on this: http://www.ofelvesandmen.com/Submission Guidelines.htm
We hope that you have fun writing through the month of April and let me, = aglarien or chaotic_binky know if you have any questions.

Thanks yo= u! --Jane (phyncke)


--000e0cd2de020a7c0b04847bc7fb-- --000e0cd2de020a7c1104847bc7fc-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3144 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46717 invoked from network); 3 May 2010 01:14:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2010 01:14:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f182.google.com) (74.125.82.182) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2010 01:14:33 -0000 X-Received: by wyb36 with SMTP id 36so1259516wyb.41 for ; Sun, 02 May 2010 18:14:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.88.12 with SMTP id z12mr5155396wee.165.1272849259401; Sun, 02 May 2010 18:14:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.12.204 with HTTP; Sun, 2 May 2010 18:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 21:14:19 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6da7ae5f59a960485a64f63 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: May 2010 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=WDK32cWp0_Do9U8uKbc3TurSr1SJ7T2xcNjwK3Az2B9zuLTRp604 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6da7ae5f59a960485a64f63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings, all, Despite an insanely busy weekend, I managed to get the newsletter posted tonight, with many thanks owed to Pandemonium for helping me with copyedits. The newsletter can be found on our website here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/may2010.php And has also been posted on our LiveJournal community. This month's newsletter includes another excellent character biography from Oshun. This month's character is Fingolfin, who is often presented in fan-writing as a foil to Feanor but, in fact, is a much more complicated and interesting character than that. Pandemonium takes us to Thangorodrim Day Care in this month's "Gothmog and Draugluin" as our favorite balrog and his furry pal talk about where orclings come from. Of course, there is also news from in and around the SWG. Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6da7ae5f59a960485a64f63 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all,

Despite an insanely busy weekend, I managed to get t= he newsletter posted tonight, with many thanks owed to Pandemonium for help= ing me with copyedits. The newsletter can be found on our website here:
=
h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/may2010.php

And has = also been posted on our LiveJournal community.

This month's news= letter includes another excellent character biography from Oshun. This mont= h's character is Fingolfin, who is often presented in fan-writing as a = foil to Feanor but, in fact, is a much more complicated and interesting cha= racter than that. Pandemonium takes us to Thangorodrim Day Care in this mon= th's "Gothmog and Draugluin" as our favorite balrog and his f= urry pal talk about where orclings come from. Of course, there is also news= from in and around the SWG.

Enjoy!

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--0016e6da7ae5f59a960485a64f63-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3145 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37109 invoked from network); 5 May 2010 13:46:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2010 13:46:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.95) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2010 13:46:40 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 31811 invoked by uid 60001); 5 May 2010 13:46:40 -0000 Message-ID: <314200.31038.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: XiNd1vkVM1mXTfSfACJJzr.mjJ0xbDZvh1x5eQfmaogPej2 08HSDCrXVJBl1P3.6ShrKGAyt3ytPu0__UkMmbQxtcitBoTV1mJKhJkmt8F7 lgNyU4eCXmOSwFq2CI0_5lQyMRi5d8q837BfsOCKK6jVceofDBH0SpSCopkl HjmbUuS1oZlCK5fYLSVspnXyanulYTL9NAzIptbSPJeXzGxph8MkMBiu5WI5 bNk_PCbXdqKS9D4dIVFOj2eqIDydJCoS9QncRWD.exg2zorTgD15UiLxgg9s A5lCheNTv7BW.btf8EwvGLRttveeJgWse9Xar4EJ9Zoamq8j1A0NVZTOd5kU Ewkd1pGco9_AAFg-- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 May 2010 06:46:40 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/348.5 YahooMailWebService/0.8.103.269680 Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 06:46:40 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild , open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, SoA , Henneth_Annun@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, aragornangst@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-792435049-1273067200=:31038" From: Alassante7 Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] ..::May/June Theme ~ X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=bT5B7W8iML1jJvutj9bXafpJHO58VMKd5Z8KrVde-NXmUTMwbg X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-792435049-1273067200=:31038 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C2=A0 ~~**~~ >I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=C2=A0 = >JRR Tolkien >=C2=A0 >=C2=A0..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:= =C2=A6:- >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4= =C2=A0 .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))=C2=A0=C2=A0-:|:-=C2=A0 >=C2=B0=C2=BA.. A= lassante.. =C2=BA=C2=B0 >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -:=C2=A6:-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ((= =C2=B8=C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4*=C2=A0 -:|:- ----- Forwarded Message ---- From= : alassante7 To: A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups= .com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 9:35:54 AM Subject: [A_Long_Expected_Contest] .= .::May/June Theme ~ =C2=A0 t doesn't have to be based on documented event= s=C2=A0or need to be based on an actual character in the books (can be an O= C in Tolkien's world). Each writer has until June=C2=A015 by 12:00 AM PST t= o turn in the story to alec_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com. Please include th= e proper formatting for LJ. I'm posting the instructions in the group under= files, if you have any questions. Good luck and happy writing! Don't for= get - March's 'Feeling Lucky?'stories are posted and need some votes! I'm g= oing to extend voting until May 8th because we need more votes!! The theme = for May/June is: I'm Missing You... I --0-792435049-1273067200=:31038 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 
<= FONT face=3DArial color=3D#002f80 size=3D3>
~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall ta= ke my revenge. 
JRR Tol= kien
<= /EM> 
=  ..=C2=B7*=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))   -:=C2=A6:-=
      &nb= sp; =C2=B8.=C2=B7=C2=B4  .=C2=B7=C2=B4=C2=A8=C2=A8))  -:|:-&= nbsp;
=C2=B0=C2=BA.. Alassante= = =C2=BA=C2=B0
    -:=C2=A6:-    ((=C2=B8=C2=B8.= =C2=B7=C2=B4*  -:|:-
<= /DIV>


----- Forwarded Message ----
F= rom: alassante7
To: A_Long_Expected_Contest@yahoogroups.c= om
Sent: Wed, May 5, 201= 0 9:35:54 AM
Subject: [A= _Long_Expected_Contest] ..::May/June Theme ~

 

The theme for = May/June is:

I'm Missi= ng You...

It doesn't have to be based on docu= mented events or need to be based on an actual character in the books = (can be an OC in Tolkien's world). Each writer has until June 15 by 12:00 AM PST to turn in the story to ale= c_votecoordinato r@yahoo.com.

Please include the proper formatting for LJ. I'm po= sting the instructions in the group under files, if you have any questions.=


Good luck and happy writing!


= Don't forget - March's 'Feeling Lucky?' stories are posted and need some votes! I'm going to extend= voting until May 8th because we need more votes!!

= --0-792435049-1273067200=:31038-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3146 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4432 invoked from network); 7 May 2010 04:22:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 May 2010 04:22:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-px0-f181.google.com) (209.85.212.181) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2010 04:22:55 -0000 X-Received: by mail-px0-f181.google.com with SMTP id 8so315860pxi.12 for ; Thu, 06 May 2010 21:22:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.141.108.5 with SMTP id k5mr7615586rvm.66.1273206175096; Thu, 06 May 2010 21:22:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.126.3 with HTTP; Thu, 6 May 2010 21:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 21:22:55 -0700 Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenslash , LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd137f6cadecc0485f96912 From: Jane Fink Subject: OEAM Writer's Circle: Prompt 3 for May: On Love X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=hvCe76WIGcP_cJYSVyNbh_iF3D1bEJI0pJnLXOxIUvX6 X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --000e0cd137f6cadecc0485f96912 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a quick post to let you know about the prompt for this month for th= e OEAM Writer's Circle on OEAM (a livejournal community). You can find this= community on LJ here: http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/ * May's Prom= pt:* Here is the third prompt for May 2010. This will run from May 1 - May= 31, 2010. You may post your stories throughout the month of May and you ma= y write more than one story to fill this idea. There is no limit to how man= y you can submit. If you would like to write a series of pieces, that is gr= eat! Your story can be a drabble, ficlet, fic, chapter story or however yo= u choose to fill this idea. Minimum length: 100 words *Prompt 03: May 201= 0* Write about your characters in love. This can be a point of view piece = or shifting perspective. Describe a loving moment, love=92s first realizati= on, the slow development of a loving relationship or the sudden onset of th= is emotion. How do your character=92s fall in love or when do they first re= alize they have feelings for the object of their affection? You may also ex= plore other aspects of love and your characters. Ex. From the Silmarillion= by J.R.R. Tolkien* =93But he came at last to a glade open to the stars, an= d there Melian stood; and out of the darkness he looked at her, and the lig= ht of Aman was in her face. She spoke no word; but being filled with love = =CBlwe came to her and took her hand, and straightaway a spell was laid on = him, so that they stood thus while long years were measured by the wheeling= stars above them; and the trees of Nan Elmoth grew tall and dark before th= ey spoke any word.=94* (Of Thingol and Melian) *Of note:* This is not lim= ited to the Silmarillion/LOTR fandom. Any of the OEAM fandoms are permissab= le. Please check on www.ofelvesandmen.com or the profile for what will work= . We will be archiving stories posted on the LJ community on the OEAM Site = as a special section. You may also post stories to the yahoo groups but we = cannot archive those unless you submit them to OEAM as stories to be archiv= ed for this program. Please go here for submission guidelines: http://www.= ofelvesandmen.com/SubmissionGuidelines.htm You should also use a fiction h= eader for your story which includes: Title: Author: (Please include email = address.) Fandom: For: OEAM Writer's Circle Genre: (FCGen, FCHet, FCS, RPGe= n, RPHet, RPS. Definitions are located below.) Characters: Rating: (G, PG, = PG-13, R, NC-17) Disclaimer: (All stories MUST include a disclaimer) Summar= y: Thanks for your interest and let me, aglarien1 or chaotic_binky know if= you have any questions. --Cheers. Jane (phyncke) --000e0cd137f6cadecc0485f96912 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a quick post to let you know about the prompt for this month for th= e OEAM Writer's Circle on OEAM (a livejournal community). You can find = this community on LJ here:

http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/

May'= ;s Prompt:

Here is the third prompt for May 2010. This will = run from May 1 - May 31, 2010. You may post your stories throughout the mo= nth of May and you may write more than one story to fill this idea. There = is no limit to how many you can submit. If you would like to write a serie= s of pieces, that is great!

Your story can be a drabble, ficlet, fi= c, chapter story or however you choose to fill this idea.

Minimum = length: 100 words

Prompt 03: May 2010

Write about you= r characters in love. This can be a point of view piece or shifting persp= ective. Describe a loving moment, love=92s first realization, the slow dev= elopment of a loving relationship or the sudden onset of this emotion. How= do your character=92s fall in love or when do they first realize they hav= e feelings for the object of their affection? You may also explore other a= spects of love and your characters.

Ex. >From the Silmarillion by = J.R.R. Tolkien
=93But he came at last to a glade open to the stars, = and there Melian stood; and out of the darkness he looked at her, and the = light of Aman was in her face.
She spoke no word; but being filled wi= th love =CBlwe came to her and took her hand, and straightaway a spell was= laid on him, so that they stood thus while long years were measured by th= e wheeling stars above them; and the trees of Nan Elmoth grew tall and dar= k before they spoke any word.=94
(Of Thingol and Melian)

Of note:

This is not limited to the Silmarillion/LOTR fandom. = Any of the OEAM fandoms are permissable. Please check on www.ofelvesandmen.com or the profile for what = will work. We will be archiving stories posted on the LJ community on the O= EAM Site as a special section. You may also post stories to the yahoo grou= ps but we cannot archive those unless you submit them to OEAM as stories to= be archived for this program. Please go here for submission guidelines:
http= ://www.ofelvesandmen.com/SubmissionGuidelines.htm

You should al= so use a fiction header for your story which includes:

Title:
Au= thor: (Please include email address.)
Fandom:
For: OEAM Writer'= s Circle
Genre: (FCGen, FCHet, FCS, RPGen, RPHet, RPS. Definitions are= located below.)
Characters:
Rating: (G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17)
Di= sclaimer: (All stories MUST include a disclaimer)
Summary:

Than= ks for your interest and let me, aglarien1 or chaotic_binky know if you hav= e any questions. --Cheers.

Jane (phyncke)
--000e0cd137f6cadecc0485f96912-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3147 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17187 invoked from network); 15 May 2010 04:40:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 May 2010 04:40:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f52.google.com) (74.125.82.52) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2010 04:40:33 -0000 X-Received: by wwb24 with SMTP id 24so2092363wwb.39 for ; Fri, 14 May 2010 21:40:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.89.143 with SMTP id c15mr1388039wef.127.1273898419856; Fri, 14 May 2010 21:40:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.12.204 with HTTP; Fri, 14 May 2010 21:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 00:40:19 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d77eddcba68d04869a96a4 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Nominations Open for 2010 MEFAs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=2qfOinBuWJETxTvQwef_Tm__FeWaRv2NwxmWJqutV0ZLttDqGakw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d77eddcba68d04869a96a4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Once again, I will be passing on announcements from Marta concerning the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards (MEFAs). Nominations kicked off tonight, so here is the first announcement of the season! -- The 2010 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards have officially begun. We are accepting nominations from now until June 15, and would love to include your favorite stories, poems, essays, and other fanfic. For an overview of what pieces are eligible and which aren't, as well as a run-down of some important changes to the 2010 awards, see community.livejournal.com/mefas/193749.html If you would like to nominate stories, you will need to join the Yahoo group MEFAwards. groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/ Anyone who joins that group will be able to nominate up to twenty pieces of Tolkien fanfic, either their own or someone else's. Nominated authors will be able to vote in the awards but need to join the MEFAwards group in order to nominate stories. Thanks in advance for your participation and interest! If you have questions, please email me: mefasupport-at-gmail-dot-com. Marta (MEFA Admin.) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d77eddcba68d04869a96a4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Once again, I will be passing on announcements from Marta c= oncerning the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards (MEFAs). Nominations kicked of= f tonight, so here is the first announcement of the season!

--
<= br>The 2010 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards have officially begun. We are accepting nominations from now until June 15, and would love to include = your
favorite stories, poems, essays, and other fanfic.

For an= overview of what pieces are eligible and which aren't, as well as a run-down of some important changes to the 2010 awards, see

community.livejournal.com/mefas/193749.html

If you would lik= e to nominate stories, you will need to join the Yahoo group
MEFAwards= .

groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/

Anyone who joins that= group will be able to nominate up to twenty pieces of
Tolkien fanfic,= either their own or someone else's. Nominated authors will
be abl= e to vote in the awards but need to join the MEFAwards group in order
= to nominate stories.

Thanks in advance for your participation and = interest! If you have
questions, please email me: mefasupport-at-gmail-= dot-com.

Marta (MEFA Admin.)

--
~oOo~
= Dawn Felagund
ht= tp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d77eddcba68d04869a96a4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3148 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49328 invoked from network); 31 May 2010 20:44:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2010 20:44:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f41.google.com) (74.125.82.41) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2010 20:44:37 -0000 X-Received: by wwb24 with SMTP id 24so1036819wwb.0 for ; Mon, 31 May 2010 13:44:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.134.193 with SMTP id k1mr4729710wbt.39.1275338676187; Mon, 31 May 2010 13:44:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Mon, 31 May 2010 13:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 16:44:35 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636831f0ec337980487e9ecfb X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Our Fifth Birthday Is Coming! We Need Celebration Ideas! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5H_Rmf_wNTnRKszne4c1-y4aH1SYsrh4xSwXzwvPoJ8W7NUxDSWf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636831f0ec337980487e9ecfb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The June newsletter should be out tomorrow, but there is one item of particular importance that I wanted to address separately. The SWG will turn five on the 27th of July. That was the day in 2005 when Uli/ford_of_bruinen and I started telling our fannish friends about our new group and welcomed our first members. We've accomplished a lot since then, thanks to the energy and talent of our members, so we would like to do something to commemorate our fifth birthday. But, since our members are the reasons for the SWG's success and the reason that we have made it to this important milestone, then we wanted to do something that would be fun and meaningful for the members, not just the mods. We are hoping, then, that you will share with us some ideas for how to mark our fifth birthday! We've done lots of special projects in the past for Back to Middle-earth Month and other "holidays" like Akallabeth in August and the anniversary of *The Silmarillion*. We've put together collections, sponsored contests, and held games. There are also lots of things we *haven't* tried yet, so if you've ever thought, "I wonder why they don't ..." then suggest away! :) If we have multiple popular ideas, then we will hold a poll in mid-June to give everyone a chance to select their favorite. I look forward to hearing your ideas! :) Best regards, Dawn P.S.--This is crossposted to our LJ, if you'd rather reply there: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/160402.html And, of course, we always welcome suggestions at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org! -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636831f0ec337980487e9ecfb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The June newsletter should be out tomorrow, but there is on= e item of particular importance that I wanted to address separately. The SW= G will turn five on the 27th of July. That was the day in 2005 when Uli/for= d_of_bruinen and I started telling our fannish friends about our new group = and welcomed our first members. We've accomplished a lot since then, th= anks to the energy and talent of our members, so we would like to do someth= ing to commemorate our fifth birthday.

But, since our members are t= he reasons for the SWG's success and the reason that we have made it to= this important milestone, then we wanted to do something that would be fun= and meaningful for the members, not just the mods. We= are hoping, then, that you will share with us some ideas for how to mark o= ur fifth birthday!

We've done lots of special projects in the p= ast for Back to Middle-earth Month and other "holidays" like Akal= labeth in August and the anniversary of The Silmarillion. We've = put together collections, sponsored contests, and held games. There are als= o lots of things we haven't tried yet, so if you've ever tho= ught, "I wonder why they don't ..." then suggest away! :) If = we have multiple popular ideas, then we will hold a poll in mid-June to giv= e everyone a chance to select their favorite.

I look forward to hea= ring your ideas! :)

Best regards,

Dawn

P.S.--This is c= rossposted to our LJ, if you'd rather reply there: http://community.livej= ournal.com/silwritersguild/160402.html

And, of course, we alway= s welcome suggestions at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org!

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/=
http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org
--001636831f0ec337980487e9ecfb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3149 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25198 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2010 06:06:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2010 06:06:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2010 06:06:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1275372356; bh=aP8ParHVj+E/pvYtRr8tecgHirP5kG7pzkiD71G10RA=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=efDFGq+W9yGnsGFbkX+L8jTb41k1pzw8PtbqyPRrQRG0rvqtbAh/f9DOUFVh+fJ4HX93WrhZjmGWxIzV+I3VIsn41LByOIJLJbG2OZhdg9fiYWAj9ibG4MJ9rv2LDI/u Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2010 06:05:56 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2010 06:05:56 -0000 X-Sender: telron_dragon@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51907 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2010 05:05:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2010 05:05:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2010 05:05:46 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2010 03:17:42 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2010 03:16:58 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 03:16:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system From: "Telron" Subject: Re: Our Fifth Birthday Is Coming! We Need Celebration Ideas! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=356670492; y=IodToCq_1lrjIt4AVO9unK8RWWL3hbjC2-wC4VBJB3qefeTFL6R3rQ X-Yahoo-Profile: telron_dragon X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 01 Jun 2010 06:05:55 -0000 I'll try to think of something more or less great ;) I have some ideas but = early in the morning they are vague =3D( From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3150 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 545 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2010 13:36:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2010 13:36:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f179.google.com) (74.125.82.179) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2010 13:36:05 -0000 X-Received: by wyb32 with SMTP id 32so1142436wyb.38 for ; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 06:36:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.88.4 with SMTP id z4mr1440639wee.107.1275399364554; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 06:36:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Jun 2010 06:36:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 09:36:04 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99efa123b2a0487f80e81 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Our Fifth Birthday Is Coming! We Need Celebration Ideas! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=jpzMl1Ku17Rvw06SOQ8AtRwLr-8naWqfYeT5Yj-7MMXRncUDCtY8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d99efa123b2a0487f80e81 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks, Lin! As a fellow not-a-morning-person, I understand how that goes! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d99efa123b2a0487f80e81 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Lin! As a fellow not-a-morning-person, I= understand how that goes! :)
=C2=A0
=
Dawn

-- ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g
--0016e6d99efa123b2a0487f80e81-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3151 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6598 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2010 23:04:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2010 23:04:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-yw0-f198.google.com) (209.85.211.198) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2010 23:04:31 -0000 X-Received: by ywh36 with SMTP id 36so4111941ywh.4 for ; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 16:04:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.18.36 with SMTP id u36mr2898610qaa.64.1275433469760; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 16:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from Gwaithir (ool-457c028c.dyn.optonline.net [69.124.2.140]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 7sm10501197qwf.56.2010.06.01.16.04.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 01 Jun 2010 16:04:27 -0700 (PDT) To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:04:38 -0400 Message-ID: <4c0591fb.47c2f10a.5936.ffffcf4d@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcsBkapYDwg1yDYASG+f/tl+O9qNFAASp+Jw Content-Language: en-us X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "telperion1" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Our Fifth Birthday Is Coming! We Need Celebration Ideas! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=ZqVVb-goXFOvUMqk_hkRtK6XKB346zGRz8iCzlcref02ULjJhaqySg X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hi Dawn, I wonder if we could do something to honor older stories in the a= rchive? Two ideas pop to mind: 1. A recommendations challenge. Once a week= , give us a theme and ask people to recommend a story that's been in the ar= chive for at least six months. For instance: recommend a story involving ch= ildren, or a fixed-length ficlet, or an epic novel, or an explanation of a = canon quote, or whatever. 2. Do a remix challenge. Basically, this is whe= re we write fanfic of fanfic. For instance: in a story you wrote a few year= s back, you referred to incident [x]; I write a fanfic describing that inci= dent. The trouble there would be logistics. I'm not sure you want people to= just have a free-for-all of adding to each others' universes. But I know i= t's been done with other groups, and it's a lot of fun. On a totally diffe= rent tack: 3. Over at HASA, we had what I affectionately called the "stori= es we dare not tell" challenge. Basically instead of writing a story you wr= ite the *outline* for a story,the kind of story you would be too embarrasse= d to write (let alone publish) but that you secretly are drawn to. That als= o was a lot of fun, and easy to participate in. HTH, Marta > -----Origi= nal Message----- > From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > [mailto= :SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dawn > Felagund > S= ent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 9:36 AM > To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogro= ups.com > Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Our Fifth Birthday Is= > Coming! We Need Celebration Ideas! > > > > Thanks, Lin! As a fellow n= ot-a-morning-person, I understand how that > goes! :) > > Dawn > > -- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3152 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11002 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2010 00:10:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2010 00:10:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f174.google.com) (74.125.82.174) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2010 00:10:23 -0000 X-Received: by wyi11 with SMTP id 11so1466929wyi.5 for ; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 17:10:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.185.78 with SMTP id t56mr685744wem.40.1275437421818; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 17:10:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Jun 2010 17:10:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4c0591fb.47c2f10a.5936.ffffcf4d@mx.google.com> References: <4c0591fb.47c2f10a.5936.ffffcf4d@mx.google.com> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:10:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f1eb7a75f369048800ea9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Our Fifth Birthday Is Coming! We Need Celebration Ideas! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Fth62DCcMzg-JjYMbjmXwlN3U3WZu53seEg2aBB1MZq13AJ7YTmn X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001485f1eb7a75f369048800ea9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thank you, Marta! Those are all really cool ideas. No matter what we end up doing for our birthday, I have gotten lots of good ideas for challenges and events for the *next* five years. :) > I wonder if we could do something to honor older stories in the archive? I cross-posted to the LJ community as well, and thinking is heading in a similar direction over there with respect to including existing stories: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/160402.html I definitely think that something that looks to the past would be appropriate. Lyra put it best over there when she said that this is really about the past *and* future! :) There is also the practical matter that not everyone currently has time (or inspiration) to create something totally new for a challenge. Yet many of those people have been important contributors to the group in a variety of capacities. So what say you, listmates? Any ideas discussed here or on LJ looking particularly good to you? Do you have any ideas that haven't been mentioned? Dawn ** On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 7:04 PM, telperion1 wrote: > > > Hi Dawn, > > I wonder if we could do something to honor older stories in the archive? > Two ideas pop to mind: > > 1. A recommendations challenge. Once a week, give us a theme and ask people > to recommend a story that's been in the archive for at least six months. For > instance: recommend a story involving children, or a fixed-length ficlet, or > an epic novel, or an explanation of a canon quote, or whatever. > > 2. Do a remix challenge. Basically, this is where we write fanfic of > fanfic. For instance: in a story you wrote a few years back, you referred to > incident [x]; I write a fanfic describing that incident. The trouble there > would be logistics. I'm not sure you want people to just have a free-for-all > of adding to each others' universes. But I know it's been done with other > groups, and it's a lot of fun. > > On a totally different tack: > > 3. Over at HASA, we had what I affectionately called the "stories we dare > not tell" challenge. Basically instead of writing a story you write the > *outline* for a story,the kind of story you would be too embarrassed to > write (let alone publish) but that you secretly are drawn to. That also was > a lot of fun, and easy to participate in. > > HTH, > > Marta > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001485f1eb7a75f369048800ea9c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Marta! Those are all really cool ideas. No matter what we end up= doing for our birthday, I have gotten lots of good ideas for challenges an= d events for the next five years. :)

> I wonder if we coul= d do something to honor older stories in the archive?

I cross-poste= d to the LJ community as well, and thinking is heading in a similar directi= on over there with respect to including existing stories:

http://commu= nity.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/160402.html

I definitely t= hink that something that looks to the past would be appropriate. Lyra put i= t best over there when she said that this is really about the past and future! :) There is also the practical matter that not everyone currentl= y has time (or inspiration) to create something totally new for a challenge= . Yet many of those people have been important contributors to the group in= a variety of capacities.

So what say you, listmates? Any ideas dis= cussed here or on LJ looking particularly good to you? Do you have any idea= s that haven't been mentioned?

Dawn

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 7:04 PM, telperion1 &= lt;marta.fandom@gmail.com>= wrote:
=C2=A0

Hi Dawn,<= br>
I wonder if we could do something to honor older stories in the ar= chive? Two ideas pop to mind:

1. A recommendations challenge. Once= a week, give us a theme and ask people to recommend a story that's bee= n in the archive for at least six months. For instance: recommend a story i= nvolving children, or a fixed-length ficlet, or an epic novel, or an explan= ation of a canon quote, or whatever.

2. Do a remix challenge. Ba= sically, this is where we write fanfic of fanfic. For instance: in a story = you wrote a few years back, you referred to incident [x]; I write a fanfic = describing that incident. The trouble there would be logistics. I'm not= sure you want people to just have a free-for-all of adding to each others&= #39; universes. But I know it's been done with other groups, and it'= ;s a lot of fun.

On a totally different tack:

3. Over at= HASA, we had what I affectionately called the "stories we dare not te= ll" challenge. Basically instead of writing a story you write the *out= line* for a story,the kind of story you would be too embarrassed to write (= let alone publish) but that you secretly are drawn to. That also was a lot = of fun, and easy to participate in.

HTH,

Marta


--
~oOo~Dawn Felagund
h= ttp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
= --001485f1eb7a75f369048800ea9c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3153 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67603 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2010 01:41:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2010 01:41:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f50.google.com) (74.125.82.50) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2010 01:41:58 -0000 X-Received: by wwb17 with SMTP id 17so1147251wwb.9 for ; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 18:40:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.171.139 with SMTP id r11mr287855wel.31.1275442857491; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 18:40:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Jun 2010 18:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:40:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367fab7173bbeb0488022eb9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: June 2010 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=LsxtxoG20HGQd5gy0mysFEE-zmaHLZiIjBZVrZIAcnZBEAm9vyDm X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016367fab7173bbeb0488022eb9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, This month's newsletter has been posted on our website: http://w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/june2010.php We have a couple news it= ems this month. As is currently under discussion on this list, we are makin= g plans for our fifth birthday celebration. All members and friends of SWG = are invited to contribute thoughts and ideas. We are also preparing to do s= ome necessary software updates. This will require us to take the archive do= wn for a few hours. Currently, we are planning to do this next Tuesday, Jun= e 8, around 7 AM GMT. Rhapsody or I will post a reminder before we take the= archive down. We are expecting the maintenance to take about two to three = hours. For this month's newsletter, Oshun has also written an excellent an= d highly informative essay about Finw=C3=AB, our character of the month. In= many ways, Finw=C3=AB represents the temperament of the Noldor as a whole,= and we can also learn much about early Elven society by studying his chara= cter. Oshun brings up many intriguing ideas and interpretations about his c= haracter--the bio is well worth the read! We also have a new challenge thi= s month and news from Tolkien groups beyond the SWG. Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo= ~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org --0016367fab7173bbeb0488022eb9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

This month's newsletter has been posted on our website:=

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/june2010.php

We = have a couple news items this month. As is currently under discussion on th= is list, we are making plans for our fifth birthday celebration. All member= s and friends of SWG are invited to contribute thoughts and ideas. We are a= lso preparing to do some necessary software updates. This will require us t= o take the archive down for a few hours. Currently, we are planning to do t= his next Tuesday, June 8, around 7 AM GMT. Rhapsody or I will post a remind= er before we take the archive down. We are expecting the maintenance to tak= e about two to three hours.

For this month's newsletter, Oshun = has also written an excellent and highly informative essay about Finw=C3=AB= , our character of the month. In many ways, Finw=C3=AB represents the tempe= rament of the Noldor as a whole, and we can also learn much about early Elv= en society by studying his character. Oshun brings up many intriguing ideas= and interpretations about his character--the bio is well worth the read!
We also have a new challenge this month and news from Tolkien groups= beyond the SWG. Enjoy!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Da= wn Felagund
http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016367fab7173bbeb0488022eb9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3154 Return-Path: X-Sender: telron_dragon@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43270 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2010 03:13:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2010 03:13:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2010 03:13:48 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2010 03:12:07 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2010 03:12:07 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 03:12:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Telron" Subject: Re: Our Fifth Birthday Is Coming! We Need Celebration Ideas! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=356670492; y=0HNoBpbg0VJEQ9V3CJM6YoolC2_ICiZfhbCophvJzA8xeJRXqYFVnA X-Yahoo-Profile: telron_dragon Or perhaps we should organize some SWG award? (if there isn't such yet). = The ideas mentioned alreay are really great =3D) I had also the idea livin= g since B2MEM 2010 about organizing a more or less permanent RPG forum (at = Proboards for example, they're free at least and can be closed from unwante= d spammers rather easily). --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com= , Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Thank you, Marta! Those are a= ll really cool ideas. No matter what we end up > doing for our birthday, I = have gotten lots of good ideas for challenges and > events for the *next* f= ive years. :) > > > I wonder if we could do something to honor older stori= es in the archive? > > I cross-posted to the LJ community as well, and thi= nking is heading in a > similar direction over there with respect to includ= ing existing stories: > > http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild= /160402.html > > I definitely think that something that looks to the past = would be > appropriate. Lyra put it best over there when she said that this= is really > about the past *and* future! :) There is also the practical ma= tter that not > everyone currently has time (or inspiration) to create some= thing totally new > for a challenge. Yet many of those people have been imp= ortant contributors > to the group in a variety of capacities. > > So what= say you, listmates? Any ideas discussed here or on LJ looking > particular= ly good to you? Do you have any ideas that haven't been mentioned? > > Daw= n > ** > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 7:04 PM, telperion1 wrot= e: > > > > > > > Hi Dawn, > > > > I wonder if we could do something to hon= or older stories in the archive? > > Two ideas pop to mind: > > > > 1. A re= commendations challenge. Once a week, give us a theme and ask people > > to= recommend a story that's been in the archive for at least six months. For = > > instance: recommend a story involving children, or a fixed-length ficle= t, or > > an epic novel, or an explanation of a canon quote, or whatever. >= > > > 2. Do a remix challenge. Basically, this is where we write fanfic of= > > fanfic. For instance: in a story you wrote a few years back, you refer= red to > > incident [x]; I write a fanfic describing that incident. The tro= uble there > > would be logistics. I'm not sure you want people to just hav= e a free-for-all > > of adding to each others' universes. But I know it's b= een done with other > > groups, and it's a lot of fun. > > > > On a totally= different tack: > > > > 3. Over at HASA, we had what I affectionately call= ed the "stories we dare > > not tell" challenge. Basically instead of writi= ng a story you write the > > *outline* for a story,the kind of story you wo= uld be too embarrassed to > > write (let alone publish) but that you secret= ly are drawn to. That also was > > a lot of fun, and easy to participate in= . > > > > HTH, > > > > Marta > > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://= themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3155 Return-Path: X-Sender: anarchy@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18274 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2010 15:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2010 15:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2010 15:42:14 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2010 15:42:08 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2010 15:42:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 15:42:08 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4c0591fb.47c2f10a.5936.ffffcf4d@mx.google.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "klose_enuf" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Our_Fifth_Birthday_Is_Coming!_We_=09Need_Celebration_Ideas!?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=294946863; y=pfm3wXy3LWt9jZCXzjkHlMYGKxzQPE8kPEykprY7fbkXvF7NwA X-Yahoo-Profile: klose_enuf Just popping in to say that I like Marta's ideas - #2 and #3 in particular = are interesting activities! And #3 would be easy for the inspiration-challe= nged (which I often find I am!). -Klose --- In SilmarillionWritersGuil= d@yahoogroups.com, "telperion1" wrote: > > Hi Dawn, > >= I wonder if we could do something to honor older stories in the archive? T= wo ideas pop to mind: > > 1. A recommendations challenge. Once a week, giv= e us a theme and ask people to recommend a story that's been in the archive= for at least six months. For instance: recommend a story involving childre= n, or a fixed-length ficlet, or an epic novel, or an explanation of a canon= quote, or whatever. > > 2. Do a remix challenge. Basically, this is wher= e we write fanfic of fanfic. For instance: in a story you wrote a few years= back, you referred to incident [x]; I write a fanfic describing that incid= ent. The trouble there would be logistics. I'm not sure you want people to = just have a free-for-all of adding to each others' universes. But I know it= 's been done with other groups, and it's a lot of fun. > > On a totally di= fferent tack: > > 3. Over at HASA, we had what I affectionately called the= "stories we dare not tell" challenge. Basically instead of writing a story= you write the *outline* for a story,the kind of story you would be too emb= arrassed to write (let alone publish) but that you secretly are drawn to. T= hat also was a lot of fun, and easy to participate in. > > HTH, > > Marta= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3156 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34696 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2010 22:44:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2010 22:44:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2010 22:44:52 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2010 22:41:39 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2010 22:41:39 -0000 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2010 22:41:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: Our Fifth Birthday Is Coming! We Need Celebration Ideas! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=QqG3I-ab8abMVMOpJwixAdjXKHuk5cConALuATFSSagY75aNQfAf3kxC X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 Likewise, Marta's #2 and #3 appeal to me. > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund >= http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3157 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 94490 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2010 18:20:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2010 18:20:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2010 18:20:22 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1275675586; bh=GkEGbtc6gd31tL7dkY7N5yaOVr1culpz4wNQD4oiv3A=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:X-Received:X-Mailer:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:From:Reply-To:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=oQz4y6sz2QvIQXbe7slrxMdxLe2ctHzF5rU9/RdDr2VNkkZrTZocjBPnV0ybZn4hBcP5iS/s+9doi1PbezzOOXPpJstxP52BuGp6UsMoJgCFcA9XUWMp9o4MBi6k7038 Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2010 18:19:46 -0000 Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2010 18:19:46 -0000 X-Sender: fenriswoolf@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50643 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2010 18:13:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2010 18:13:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.201.83) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2010 18:13:21 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 88943 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2010 18:13:14 -0000 Message-ID: <338240.87197.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: m_MS0QkVM1mScTvh5e_pmUdia6mjIzt6c5e6QHwxLQEL4Rw FYQE4y4xiMa7g79oLLpM2CvQtf2aDSC_u3hk8fSgY4eCOFJ_hkVnJP8fvRAR UONrMo2K6ORFGYQgVuZsdNFVinceYSZYQTnw_wYFok5t4oIP_LRkEh5B3oAV RwNyT0TogR53F6U0GPtbKGPDXqMPhOKdDypyhoBoCWC3RAlg7o_x9Cs_av31 E1m.tQsPrzaRW5RRfO9QWrbuq5F_l9ACb6PutNCH7.fyzpRao1y_rVfsYc9V OBpbVFsjZXsD7lZQHfOM0QUwRWEj4ZAIwa8d3FqBiGdV3B16KSX6BAKL6r6S rybsZz5SuzDGlhtKM8O_SZ4pm3uX8XX8VUNQ3aY2JnOXNRNrlUwat X-Received: from [69.181.141.158] by web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Jun 2010 11:13:14 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.0.8 YahooMailWebService/0.8.103.269680 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 11:13:14 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Steven Felicelli Reply-To: fenriswoolf@yahoo.com Subject: press submissions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90339315; y=7eMHWet9CAtcb7tmR7cE-p6uHm6hMHtkDt3p4yxt8_IJjIL16zU X-Yahoo-Profile: fenriswoolf X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 04 Jun 2010 18:19:44 -0000 Purgatorio Press is now accepting submissions - purgatoriopress.com From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3158 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7624 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2010 19:17:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2010 19:17:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web76804.mail.sg1.yahoo.com) (124.108.123.108) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2010 19:17:21 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 88506 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2010 19:17:19 -0000 Message-ID: <837001.86610.qm@web76804.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: uLxr8j4VM1ksnxVKRaJKjmmnsbeHLAibzOIxtvkJtHBVc.9 uIR1GvGXz3MEtz3icP5xJorcWcYPaq7t9FUSz5RGH1t1XLM1Dq6uqeN8ni74 XryElxbRu1yrNExIWBIQiYbJJOt2N5pBemMf1lVDfx21RgZRM.Y5mGo2iQc3 Wg4bg29u_LmXHZi5LoQ2nAU6rDC1mfVnjbHTni9sGN5OQZuEVwTUswX4WV0N ccn7jRtipFb2.erFZLxGb.ZBjo_iKLfVgXGivQxpA0YQPyHWEKT.6T9bGE6E BDYdKoHMmNu9ixNBkngo2KjSfcU_vz_3jxbe0Flayc_ldmRF_kCOLXgpVPZc _yDJ.fHc5QvL_D638Me85BkJNyBM- X-Received: from [110.137.205.187] by web76804.mail.sg1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Jun 2010 03:17:19 SGT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.0.8 YahooMailWebService/0.8.103.269680 Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 03:17:19 +0800 (SGT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <338240.87197.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2088521623-1275679039=:86610" From: melissa chandra Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] press submissions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=xxNi-I1K13p8f0vBtyJkBK7IRAnmQrI53KGcWcFj5quijEPLN54 X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch --0-2088521623-1275679039=:86610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Uh? Hello? Is it real or a spam, people? :uncertain: =C2=A0 - Rey --- On = Fri, 6/4/10, Steven Felicelli wrote: From: Steven= Felicelli Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] pres= s submissions To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, Ju= ne 4, 2010, 2:13 PM =C2=A0 Purgatorio Press is now accepting submissi= ons - purgatoriopress.com --0-2088521623-1275679039=:86610 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Amusing, to say the least. :)
 
Hmm. I think SWG's reference section has Maedhros in it = too? I have not checked.
 
What is wrong with pu= rple prose? Many of the synonyms are invented for that purpose, and one can= only read so many words repeated letter by letter every few paragraphs. :)= That makes the written world so much vibrant and beautiful; because you ca= nnot speak 'purply'.
 
- Rey


= --- On Sun, 9/27/09, nav_joyi wrot= e:

From: nav_joyi
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: OT. How come Merlin?
To= : SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 27, 2= 009, 1:40 PM

=  
The wind blows my skirt up. It is = a very naughty wind here. It blew the roof of my dogs' kennels.

Mayb= e best that you stick with fiction; or for
> now at least. But I tell= you in all truth, real reality is far more
> mysterious, amazing, an= d all consuming.

It makes it all the more interesting. A bit like di= ving for corals or hiking? I love both.

> But I am still here an= d they aint, so keep smiling :- )
>

I am smiling. It is a ver= y interesting viewpoint that you have on oh-so-many things :)

The Ma= edhros geezer:

Oh, I could possible exceed the word count allowed fo= r a message if I have to talk about him. http://en.wikipedia .org/wi= ki/ Maedhros.

I love him because he is so flawed and that allow= s for so many interpretations( to me). I like to read and write(write withi= n my limited abilities) dark stories that have him in pivotal roles. But t= o really, really *know* Maedhros, I close my eyes and imagine a lonely form= before a sunset, standing on the shore by a turbulent sea, waves lapping a= gainst his feet, blood-stained sword held loose in one hand, and that torme= nted grey-eyes staring at the horizon with wistful hope.

(Purple pr= ose, and a whole passage of it. My morals are not improving :D)

--- = In SilmarillionWriters Guild@= yahoogroup s.com, "rwr" wrote:
>
= >
> How come Merlin?
>
>
>
> [wonderin= g whatever you did to be called the Merlin of Exmoor ]
>
> >
> Well young ma'am maybe better not tell it, tis a long story = and it
> involves oh so much, and much of which is not too pleasant.= I came here
> to learn about your stuff and your interests and that = which blows your
> skirt up, so to speak. Maybe best that you stick w= ith fiction; or for
> now at least. But I tell you in all truth, real= reality is far more
> mysterious, amazing, and all consuming. But su= fficient for the day that
> you land in it; with a bang. Reams of dea= th treats for writing is a
> reasonable bang and blows the cobwebs of= la-la land away soon enough.
> But I am still here and they aint, so= keep smiling :- )
>
>
>
> So; who is this Maedh= ros geezer whom you mention. Tell me all about it.
>
>
>= ;
> Merlin
>

Uh? Hello? Is it real or a spam, people?= :uncertain:
 
- Rey


--- On <= B>Fri, 6/4/10, Steven Felicelli wr= ote:

From: Steven Felicelli
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] press submissions=
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 4, 2= 010, 2:13 PM

&= nbsp;
Purgatorio Press is now accepting s= ubmissions - purgatoriopress.com

--0-2088521623-1275679039=:86610-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3159 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14925 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2010 19:19:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2010 19:19:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f174.google.com) (74.125.82.174) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2010 19:19:08 -0000 X-Received: by wyi11 with SMTP id 11so1244833wyi.33 for ; Fri, 04 Jun 2010 12:19:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.85.7 with SMTP id t7mr1084998wee.114.1275679144128; Fri, 04 Jun 2010 12:19:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 12:19:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <837001.86610.qm@web76804.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> References: <338240.87197.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <837001.86610.qm@web76804.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:19:04 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d77cce3bdef50488393280 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] press submissions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=6nx5Rgbwiyg_QV3XYduKcxmDw14EhQsradZnQFMf8DqeQTst620p X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d77cce3bdef50488393280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 It's a real publication; I checked the link before approving the message to go to the group. Dawn On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 3:17 PM, melissa chandra wrote: > > > Uh? Hello? Is it real or a spam, people? :uncertain: > > - Rey > > > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d77cce3bdef50488393280 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's a real publication; I checked the link before approving the messag= e to go to the group.

Dawn

On Fri,= Jun 4, 2010 at 3:17 PM, melissa chandra <melissa_pch@yahoo.com> wrote:
<= div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> =C2=A0 =

=
Uh? Hello? Is it real or a spam, people? :uncertain:
=C2=A0
- Rey




--=
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org
--0016e6d77cce3bdef50488393280-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3160 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 875 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2010 19:28:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2010 19:28:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web76815.mail.sg1.yahoo.com) (124.108.123.119) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2010 19:28:07 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 95465 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2010 19:28:06 -0000 Message-ID: <316060.94576.qm@web76815.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: NKY2GSAVM1mELN2bCWDsHzXlVpE1vcrBZPL9RTE68q.wBvB VbMVttAQ_qdz2nJS6fQJnNWtwXunIxBDZ78RxU0PS2WbVT6EWm8zLGy5BxT7 3xqVRdAcsv_2SWOJi5LQm5AqhEgDROK_xeBYXh8dKePNFqpGvyPlvj..VO68 5BJCcWjx9cP5e4CHT0dNkpLsjrr0z0FgOYnMHEmClXqRX4rCEhlPDqfOuWLh 0abl2vLUKVHpou2XKszWLBrXDnBI70D738_yO2TEclNwIiNEiNx34QqbOr9G 2pt.mGHkHZ_9mU0VkLqG3uT_Y3PG122h1wQDO.kCXBqEqPf5ewW3YHa6Cii2 imL55FJkf81k4i4cA9xMxJQupN1Q- X-Received: from [110.137.205.187] by web76815.mail.sg1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Jun 2010 03:28:05 SGT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.0.8 YahooMailWebService/0.8.103.269680 Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 03:28:05 +0800 (SGT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1900054724-1275679685=:94576" From: melissa chandra Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] press submissions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=-71VxD7GT2ne5ZjGFKYp19PxODFL7z-a7bs_d8_IlHI-_Pb5H-I X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch --0-1900054724-1275679685=:94576 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops. Sorry... O_O =C2=A0 Thanks, Dawn. LOL Now I feel very embarrassed for= the paranoia... Sorry, people! =C2=A0 - Rey --- On Fri, 6/4/10, Dawn Fel= agund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] press submissions To: Sil= marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 3:19 PM = =C2=A0 It's a real publication; I checked the link before approving th= e message to go to the group. Dawn On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 3:17 PM, melis= sa chandra wrote: =C2=A0 Uh? Hello? Is = it real or a spam, people? :uncertain: =C2=A0 - Rey -- ~oOo~ Dawn Fela= gund http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/ http://www.silmaril lion= writersguild .org --0-1900054724-1275679685=:94576 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oops. Sorry... O_O
 
Thanks, Dawn. LOL Now I feel very embarrassed for the paranoia... S= orry, people!
 
- Rey


--- On = Fri, 6/4/10, Dawn Felagund wro= te:

From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] press submission= s
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 4, = 2010, 3:19 PM

 
It's a real publication; I checke= d the link before approving the message to go to the group.

Dawn
=
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 3:17 PM, melissa chand= ra <melissa_pch@ yahoo.com> wrote:
=
 
Uh? Hello? Is it real or a sp= am, people? :uncertain:
 
- Rey

<= BR>


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://= themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril = lionwritersguild .org
--0-1900054724-1275679685=:94576-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3161 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87660 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2010 19:29:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2010 19:29:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f173.google.com) (74.125.82.173) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2010 19:29:59 -0000 X-Received: by wyb36 with SMTP id 36so1109336wyb.32 for ; Fri, 04 Jun 2010 12:29:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.146.207 with SMTP id i15mr11222805wbv.214.1275679798306; Fri, 04 Jun 2010 12:29:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 12:29:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <316060.94576.qm@web76815.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> References: <316060.94576.qm@web76815.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:29:58 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e65b5ef839a93f048839599e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] press submissions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=GXTnKuzPzAI2NPD5lZ5VT2o0J68yKalTGJrfpUNu65Wqtb6DXeIR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e65b5ef839a93f048839599e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No worries, Rey. :) We've gotten our share of spam in the past. All new mem= bers are kept on moderation now until they prove themselves not to be spamm= ers, so that has mostly solved the problem. Dawn On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 3= :28 PM, melissa chandra wrote: > > > Oops. Sorry...= O_O > > Thanks, Dawn. LOL Now I feel very embarrassed for the paranoia... = Sorry, > people! > > - Rey > > > - > > From: Dawn Felagund > Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] press submissions > To: = SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 3:19= PM > > > It's a real publication; I checked the link before approving the = message to > go to the group. > > Dawn > > On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 3:17 PM, = melissa chandra > > wrote: > >> >> Uh? Hello? Is it = real or a spam, people? :uncertain: >> >> - Rey >> >> >> > > -- > ~oOo~ > D= awn Felagund > http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/ > http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org<= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/> > > > > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felag= und http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org --0016e65b5ef839a93f048839599e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No worries, Rey. :) We've gotten our share of spam in the past. All new= members are kept on moderation now until they prove themselves not to be s= pammers, so that has mostly solved the problem.

Dawn

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 3:28 PM, melissa chandra <melissa_pch@yahoo.c= om> wrote:
=C2=A0

Oops. Sorry... O_O
=C2=A0
Thanks, Dawn. LOL Now I feel very embarrassed for the pa= ranoia... Sorry, people!
=C2=A0
- Rey

=
-
From: Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWri= tersGuild] press submissions
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup= s.com
Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 3:19 PM

=C2=A0<= /span>
It's a real publication; I checked the link before a= pproving the message to go to the group.

Dawn

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 3:17 PM, melissa chandra <melissa_pch@ yahoo.com= > wrote:
=C2=A0
Uh? Hello? Is it real or a spam, people? :uncertain:
= =C2=A0
- Rey


=


--
~oO= o~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ lo= remaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org

=



--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= br>http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org
--0016e65b5ef839a93f048839599e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3162 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98719 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2010 19:30:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2010 19:30:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-mb01.mx.aol.com) (64.12.207.164) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2010 19:30:23 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o54JTtXE017087 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:29:55 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id r.da0.94fbd9c (43965) for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:29:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from magic-m21.mail.aol.com (magic-m21.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.194]) by cia-dd02.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD026-abbd4c09543022f; Fri, 04 Jun 2010 15:29:52 -0400 Message-ID: <9403a.740194d8.393aae30@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:29:52 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9403a.740194d8.393aae30_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 68.173.234.48 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.22.194 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] press submissions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=UQ4dEfOLG5AHhtOf5YMJd8H3xuI1wYKOV6U5-XW3YOQ1w8zPg1ZF X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun --part1_9403a.740194d8.393aae30_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Don't be embarrassed I wondered the same thing. Oshun Oops. Sor= ry... O_O Thanks, Dawn. LOL Now I feel very embarrassed for the paranoia.= .. Sorry, people! - Rey --- On Fri, 6/4/10, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subj= ect: Re: [SilmarillionWriterSubject: Re: To: SilmarillionWritersTo: To= : Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 3:19 PM It's a real publication; I chec= ked the link before approving the message to go to the group. Dawn On F= ri, Jun 4, 2010 at 3:17 PM, melissa chandra <_melissa_pch@ yahoo.com_ (h= ttp://us.mc768.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dmelissa_pch@yahoo.com) > wro= te: Uh? Hello? Is it real or a spam, people? :uncertain: - Rey = -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund _http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ lorem= aster/_ (http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/) _http://www.silmari= l lionwritersguild .org_ (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/) = --part1_9403a.740194d8.393aae30_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =
 
= Don't be embarrassed I wondered the same thing.
 
Oshun
 

=
Oops. Sorry... O_O
 
Thanks, Dawn. LOL Now I feel very embarrassed for the paranoia... = Sorry, people!
 
- Rey
=


--- On Fri, 6/4/10, Dawn Felagund gmail.com> wrote:

From: Dawn Fe= lagund gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Silm= arillionWritersGuild] press submissions
To: Silmarillion= WritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 4, = 2010, 3:19 PM

 =
It's a real publication; I = checked the link before approving the message to go to the group= .

Dawn

On Fri, Jun 4, 201= 0 at 3:17 PM, melissa chandra <melissa_pch@ yahoo.com> wrote:
  <= DIV>
= =
Uh? Hello? Is it real or a spam, people? :uncertain: =
 
- Rey
=




--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund<= BR>http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/
http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .o= rg

=
=
--part1_9403a.740194d8.393aae30_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3163 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40274 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2010 21:16:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2010 21:16:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw0-f50.google.com) (74.125.83.50) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2010 21:16:46 -0000 X-Received: by gwaa20 with SMTP id a20so1437384gwa.23 for ; Fri, 04 Jun 2010 14:16:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.248.197 with SMTP id mh5mr2995603qcb.32.1275686204605; Fri, 04 Jun 2010 14:16:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.229.6.135 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 14:16:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 14:16:44 -0700 Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenslash , LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, glorfindel_of_imladris@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f91ae41205a104883ad727 From: Jane Fink Subject: OEAM Writer's Circle: Prompt 4: June 2010 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=pn_1hlWXZuTlHkHy5WnsmrohWvm32oec-IimDnM43ROg X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --001485f91ae41205a104883ad727 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *OEAM Writer's Circle* *June 2010* If you would like to join the OEAM Liv= ejournal Community, please go here: http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/ = Here is the new prompt for June just so that you can get started thinking = about things. We hope that you are having fun with these and enjoying the w= riting. I am having fun reading these and writing them myself. *Prompt 04:= June 2010* Write about your character or characters at a moment when they= have gotten themselves into trouble. This can range from a mild inconvenie= nce, to something more major. This could be familial, with someone they are= involved with, in battle or any other situation that you can think of. The= kind of =93trouble=94 is up to you as the writer and is left purposefully = vague. This can be a situational problem or a relationship issue or any oth= er form of =93trouble=94 that you as the writer can imagine. *No sample at= this time. Prompt minimum: 100 words *Of note:* This is not limited to = the Silmarillion/LOTR fandom. Any of the OEAM fandoms are permissable. Plea= se check on www.ofelvesandmen.com or the profile for what will work. We wil= l be archiving these on the OEAM Site as a special section and when you pos= t them here, please use the tag set up for this program (when posting on th= e livejournal community), "OEAM Writer's Circle" as well as the "archive: y= es" tag for the OEAM web site. If you are posting to the yahoo groups, you = will have to submit to OEAM to have this archived (please identify your sto= ry for this program and prompt). Submission link is below. You should also= use a fiction header for your story which includes: Title: Author: Fandom= : For: OEAM Writer's Circle Genre: (FCGen, FCHet, FCS, RPGen, RPHet, RPS. D= efinitions are located below.) Characters: Rating: (G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17)= Disclaimer: (All stories MUST include a disclaimer) Summary: Please go he= re for more complete guidelines on this: http://www.ofelvesandmen.com/Submi= ssionGuidelines.htm We hope that you have fun writing through the month of= June and let me, aglarien1 or chaotic_binky know if you have any question= s. Thank you! Jane (phyncke) --001485f91ae41205a104883ad727 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OEAM Writer's Ci= rcle
June 2010

If you would like to join the OEAM Livejournal Community, please go here= : http://community.livej= ournal.com/oeam/

Here is the new prompt for June just so that yo= u can get started thinking about things. We hope that you are having fun wi= th these and enjoying the writing. I am having fun reading these and writin= g them myself.

Prompt 04: June 2010

Write about your= character or characters at a moment when they have gotten themselves into = trouble. This can range from a mild inconvenience, to something more major.= This could be familial, with someone they are involved with, in battle or = any other situation that you can think of. The kind of =93trouble=94 is up = to you as the writer and is left purposefully vague. This can be a situatio= nal problem or a relationship issue or any other form of =93trouble=94 that= you as the writer can imagine.

*No sample at this time.

P= rompt minimum: 100 words

Of note:

This is not limited = to the Silmarillion/LOTR fandom. Any of the OEAM fandoms are permissable. P= lease check on www.ofelvesandmen.c= om or the profile for what will work. We will be archiving these on the= OEAM Site as a special section and when you post them here, please use the= tag set up for this program (when posting on the livejournal community), &= quot;OEAM Writer's Circle" as well as the "archive: yes"= tag for the OEAM web site. If you are posting to the yahoo groups, you wil= l have to submit to OEAM to have this archived (please identify your story = for this program and prompt). Submission link is below.

You should= also use a fiction header for your story which includes:

Title:
= Author:
Fandom:
For: OEAM Writer's Circle
Genre: (FCGen, FCH= et, FCS, RPGen, RPHet, RPS. Definitions are located below.)
Characters:=
Rating: (G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17)
Disclaimer: (All stories MUST incl= ude a disclaimer)
Summary:

Please go here for more complete guid= elines on this: http://www.ofelvesandmen.com/SubmissionGuidelines.htm

We= hope that you have fun writing through the month of June and let me,=A0 ag= larien1 or=A0 chaotic_binky know if you have any questions.

Thank yo= u!

Jane (phyncke)
--001485f91ae41205a104883ad727-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3164 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96683 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2010 13:30:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2010 13:30:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f53.google.com) (74.125.82.53) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2010 13:30:43 -0000 X-Received: by wwb39 with SMTP id 39so1323627wwb.26 for ; Sun, 06 Jun 2010 06:30:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.86.140 with SMTP id w12mr1344452wee.95.1275831039912; Sun, 06 Jun 2010 06:30:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Jun 2010 06:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 09:30:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d9a116ed698b04885c8f67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:1 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Announcement: MEFA Nominations Close June 15 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=h2LR65SOoRDhDT8eg3pXf_Q3d-vwGk5HFqDEkBCQwuzPSVRbn-Y5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d9a116ed698b04885c8f67 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'm passing along an announcement from Marta, the MEFA admin, for all of the MEFA participants out there. :) -- Hey guys, The Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards are currently accepting nominations for our 2010 awards. But not for long! Our nomination period will end on June 15, in just 10 days, so please get your nominations in now. To nominate stories you must be a member of the MEFAwards Yahoo group. When you join this group you will be given a username and password at the awards website, where you can nominate stories. Please allow 24 hours for this information to be emailed to you; your Yahoo log-in information will not work. If after 24 hours you haven't received a password please email mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(. dot.)net - I will look into the situation for you and send you your password ASAP. Once you have your log-in information, you may nominate stories and vote for other peoples' nominations at: http://mefawards.net/MEFA2010/ In the meantime you can begin familiarizing yourself with the site by using the "log in as guest" option. REMEMBER: --- you may nominate a piece until 11:59 PM GMT on June 15. --- authors must finalize a nomination by 11:59 PM GMT on June 21, or it will not be able to compete. We really appreciate it if you can finish your form a day or two early, in case anything needs correcting. (For the official time go to any MEFA2010 webpage. The time that page was loaded at will be displayed in the lower left corner, beside "Page Served at:". Thanks, Marta (MEFA Admin.) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d9a116ed698b04885c8f67 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm passing along an announcement from Marta, the MEFA admin, for all o= f the MEFA participants out there. :)

--

Hey guys,

T= he Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards are currently accepting nominations for<= br> our 2010 awards. But not for long! Our nomination period will end on J= une
15, in just 10 days, so please get your nominations in now.
To nominate stories you must be a member of the MEFAwards Yahoo group. W= hen
you join this group you will be given a username and password at th= e awards
website, where you can nominate stories. Please allow 24 hour= s for this
information to be emailed to you; your Yahoo log-in informat= ion will not
work.

If after 24 hours you haven't received = a password please email
mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(.
dot.)net - I will look into the situation for
you and sen= d you your password ASAP.

Once you have your log-in information, y= ou may nominate stories and vote for
other peoples' nominations at= :

htt= p://mefawards.net/MEFA2010/

In the meantime you can begin fami= liarizing yourself with the site by using
the "log in as guest&qu= ot; option.

REMEMBER:
--- you may nominate a piece until 11:59= PM GMT on June 15.
--- authors must finalize a nomination by 11:59 PM = GMT on June 21, or it
will not be able to compete. We really appreciate= it if you can finish your
form a day or two early, in case anything n= eeds correcting.


(For the official time go to any MEFA2010 we= bpage. The time that page was
loaded at will be displayed in the lower= left corner, beside "Page Served
at:".

Thanks,
=
Marta (MEFA Admin.)


--
~oOo~
Dawn F= elagund
http://t= hemidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d9a116ed698b04885c8f67-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3165 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66125 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2010 17:50:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2010 17:50:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f41.google.com) (74.125.82.41) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2010 17:50:07 -0000 X-Received: by wwb24 with SMTP id 24so3123796wwb.28 for ; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 10:50:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.168.81 with SMTP id j59mr2623747wel.61.1275933004769; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 10:50:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Jun 2010 10:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 13:50:04 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c7eaf8325590488744d8f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Archive Downtime Tomorrow X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=40BjaN4sQW2lqZ17Z5Obbr61MoRsa57SvG052sdUAdcK36cd6D_3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364c7eaf8325590488744d8f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The story archive on the SWG website is in need of a software update, so we will be taking the site down for a few hours tomorrow. Rhapsody will be doing the update and expects to begin at about 6:30 AM GMT. A practice run of the software update took about two hours, so we're hoping to have the site back up by 9:30 AM GMT. We'll keep the group posted if there are any significant changes to this. Please note that this applies to the *archive* only. The main site (newsletter, special projects, references) will continue to be available. You will not be able to read stories on the archive or access your account there. As always, if there are any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364c7eaf8325590488744d8f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The story archive on the SWG website is in need of a softwa= re update, so we will be taking the site down for a few hours tomorrow. Rha= psody will be doing the update and expects to begin at about 6:30 AM GMT. A= practice run of the software update took about two hours, so we're hop= ing to have the site back up by 9:30 AM GMT. We'll keep the group poste= d if there are any significant changes to this.

Please note that th= is applies to the archive only. The main site (newsletter, special p= rojects, references) will continue to be available. You will not be able to= read stories on the archive or access your account there.

As alway= s, if there are any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/he= retic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364c7eaf8325590488744d8f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3166 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42934 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2010 05:57:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2010 05:57:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2010 05:57:25 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2010 05:57:11 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2010 05:57:11 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:57:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Announce: yes From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Archive Maintenance X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=tPKsm-RsTNxvcsf14zGJEnBUHog65xTP4rhUcuUfgyUSOTb84z0tNjI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Goodmorning everyone! As of this moment the archive section of our site is= down for the upgrade and maintenance. The main site (newsletter, special p= rojects, references) will continue to be available. You will not be able to= read stories on the archive or access your account there. If there are a= ny questions, do let us know at moderator(a)silmarillionwritersguild(dot)or= g or contact Dawn at DawnFelagund(at)gmail(dot)com. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3167 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54199 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2010 10:48:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2010 10:48:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2010 10:48:38 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2010 10:45:57 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2010 10:45:57 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 10:45:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Announce: yes From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Archive Maintenance is finished! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=qBvPv19gS9MVyYvvKs4F_mHz6wBi8o1aeG-C072dMscZ1sub3KwNUXA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, I wanted to inform you all that the upgrade of our archive softwar= e was successful. Everything is working as it should, but if you do encount= er something strange =96no matter how small it might be; please let us know= as soon as you can at moderator(a)silmarillionwritersguild(dot)org. This = new release brings changes for readers and writers. When you submit a new s= tory, you will notice that the co-author's field has changed. If you want t= o add a co-author for example, you can enter the first letters of the name = and the page will show a grey pop-up window where you can select your fello= w author. There are also some changes when it comes down to browsing a mu= lti-chaptered story: in the past, the story would show the table of content= s below the story information that displayed the summary, genres act. If yo= u would like to see the table of contents now for quick browsing, you can e= asily access it by clicking on the link named Table of contents that is dis= played in the chapter information field that you can see in the story infor= mation. Furthermore, this new release should result in a faster and smoothe= r page-load, depending on your own connection and computer of course. That= is it for now, thank you all for your patience this morning (for me that i= s), Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3168 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44014 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2010 12:17:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2010 12:17:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f46.google.com) (74.125.82.46) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2010 12:17:27 -0000 X-Received: by wwb28 with SMTP id 28so519211wwb.33 for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:17:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.152.196 with SMTP id h4mr4287417wbw.61.1275999425614; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:17:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:17:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 08:17:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364d1c4b7f55d6048883c4fa X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Archive Maintenance is finished! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=y_Fdg91sly-APjG_j3cNaqboeIFNIQwlplU1K7TijSkVvHtgKIkB X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364d1c4b7f55d6048883c4fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thank you so much, Rhapsody! You are awesome! :D I can only emphasize, too, what Rhapsy has said about problems. If you run into *any* problems, no matter how small they seem, please let us know. New software rarely comes without a few bugs to squish. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364d1c4b7f55d6048883c4fa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you so much, Rhapsody! You are awesome! :D

I can only emphasiz= e, too, what Rhapsy has said about problems. If you run into any pro= blems, no matter how small they seem, please let us know. New software rare= ly comes without a few bugs to squish. :)

Dawn


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org
--0016364d1c4b7f55d6048883c4fa-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3169 Return-Path: X-Sender: telron_dragon@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37230 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2010 02:48:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2010 02:48:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2010 02:48:20 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2010 02:47:04 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2010 02:47:04 -0000 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 02:47:01 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Telron" Subject: Re: Our Fifth Birthday Is Coming! We Need Celebration Ideas! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=356670492; y=pWm-JBsQhMOYw8M3RI8s3JZfJGXonET6_kU4Eow14MWu3sMeu2xE0w X-Yahoo-Profile: telron_dragon Hmmm... have been thinking for some more time - perhaps besides remix fics = those who can draw could illustrate other writers' fics? --- In Silmarill= ionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > = > Thank you, Marta! Those are all really cool ideas. No matter what we end = up > doing for our birthday, I have gotten lots of good ideas for challenge= s and > events for the *next* five years. :) > > > I wonder if we could do= something to honor older stories in the archive? > > I cross-posted to th= e LJ community as well, and thinking is heading in a > similar direction ov= er there with respect to including existing stories: > > http://community.= livejournal.com/silwritersguild/160402.html > > I definitely think that so= mething that looks to the past would be > appropriate. Lyra put it best ove= r there when she said that this is really > about the past *and* future! :)= There is also the practical matter that not > everyone currently has time = (or inspiration) to create something totally new > for a challenge. Yet man= y of those people have been important contributors > to the group in a vari= ety of capacities. > > So what say you, listmates? Any ideas discussed her= e or on LJ looking > particularly good to you? Do you have any ideas that h= aven't been mentioned? > > Dawn > ** > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 7:04 PM, tel= perion1 wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Dawn, > > > > I wonder = if we could do something to honor older stories in the archive? > > Two ide= as pop to mind: > > > > 1. A recommendations challenge. Once a week, give u= s a theme and ask people > > to recommend a story that's been in the archiv= e for at least six months. For > > instance: recommend a story involving ch= ildren, or a fixed-length ficlet, or > > an epic novel, or an explanation o= f a canon quote, or whatever. > > > > 2. Do a remix challenge. Basically, t= his is where we write fanfic of > > fanfic. For instance: in a story you wr= ote a few years back, you referred to > > incident [x]; I write a fanfic de= scribing that incident. The trouble there > > would be logistics. I'm not s= ure you want people to just have a free-for-all > > of adding to each other= s' universes. But I know it's been done with other > > groups, and it's a l= ot of fun. > > > > On a totally different tack: > > > > 3. Over at HASA, we= had what I affectionately called the "stories we dare > > not tell" challe= nge. Basically instead of writing a story you write the > > *outline* for a= story,the kind of story you would be too embarrassed to > > write (let alo= ne publish) but that you secretly are drawn to. That also was > > a lot of = fun, and easy to participate in. > > > > HTH, > > > > Marta > > > > -- > = ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3170 Return-Path: X-Sender: jhfink65@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84929 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2010 17:35:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2010 17:35:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-vw0-f46.google.com) (209.85.212.46) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2010 17:35:21 -0000 X-Received: by vws13 with SMTP id 13so28802vws.19 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:34:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.26.231 with SMTP id f39mr2396514qac.56.1276536859709; Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:34:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.229.6.135 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:34:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:34:19 -0700 Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenslash , LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, glorfindel_of_imladris@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f99e63810d3de048900e674 From: Jane Fink Subject: OEAM Writer's Circle: Prompt 4: June 2010 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=293808689; y=kpLn-5l8z7evy81HJDh58oGIkKG9eBK0t-JDOb5Ctpr2 X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --00c09f99e63810d3de048900e674 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *OEAM Writer's Circle* *June 2010* If you would like to join the OEAM Liv= ejournal Community, please go here: http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/ = Here is the curremt prompt for June just soif you would like to contribute= to this month's stories, feel free! *Prompt 04: June 2010* Write about y= our character or characters at a moment when they have gotten themselves in= to trouble. This can range from a mild inconvenience, to something more maj= or. This could be familial, with someone they are involved with, in battle = or any other situation that you can think of. The kind of =93trouble=94 is = up to you as the writer and is left purposefully vague. This can be a situa= tional problem or a relationship issue or any other form of =93trouble=94 t= hat you as the writer can imagine. *No sample at this time. Prompt minimu= m: 100 words *Of note:* This is not limited to the Silmarillion/LOTR fand= om. Any of the OEAM fandoms are permissable. Please check on www.ofelvesand= men.com or the profile for what will work. We will be archiving these on th= e OEAM Site as a special section and when you post them here, please use th= e tag set up for this program (when posting on the livejournal community), = "OEAM Writer's Circle" as well as the "archive: yes" tag for the OEAM web s= ite. If you are posting to the yahoo groups, you will have to submit to OEA= M to have this archived (please identify your story for this program and pr= ompt). Submission link is below. You should also use a fiction header for = your story which includes: Title: Author: Fandom: For: OEAM Writer's Circl= e Genre: (FCGen, FCHet, FCS, RPGen, RPHet, RPS. Definitions are located bel= ow.) Characters: Rating: (G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17) Disclaimer: (All stories = MUST include a disclaimer) Summary: Please go here for more complete guide= lines on this: http://www.ofelvesandmen.com/SubmissionGuidelines.htm We ho= pe that you have fun writing through the month of June and let me, aglarien= 1 or chaotic_binky know if you have any questions. Thank you! Jane (phyn= cke) --00c09f99e63810d3de048900e674 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OEAM Writer's Circle
June 2010=


If you would like to join the OEAM Livejourna= l Community, please go here: http://community.livejournal.com/oeam/

He= re is the curremt prompt for June just soif you would like to contribute to= this month's stories, feel free!=A0

Prompt 04: June 2010=

Write about your character or characters at a moment when they = have gotten themselves into trouble. This can range from a mild inconvenien= ce, to something more major. This could be familial, with someone they are = involved with, in battle or any other situation that you can think of. The = kind of =93trouble=94 is up to you as the writer and is left purposefully v= ague. This can be a situational problem or a relationship issue or any othe= r form of =93trouble=94 that you as the writer can imagine.

*No = sample at this time.

Prompt minimum: 100 words

Of note:

This is not limited to the Silmarillion/LOTR fandom. Any of the O= EAM fandoms are permissable. Please check on www.ofelvesandmen.com or the profile for w= hat will work. We will be archiving these on the OEAM Site as a special sec= tion and when you post them here, please use the tag set up for this progra= m (when posting on the livejournal community), "OEAM Writer's Circ= le" as well as the "archive: yes" tag for the OEAM web site.= If you are posting to the yahoo groups, you will have to submit to OEAM to= have this archived (please identify your story for this program and prompt= ). Submission link is below.

You should also use a fiction heade= r for your story which includes:

Title:
Author:
Fandom:
F= or: OEAM Writer's Circle
Genre: (FCGen, FCHet, FCS, RPGen, RPHet, RP= S. Definitions are located below.)
Characters:
Rating: (G, PG, PG= -13, R, NC-17)
Disclaimer: (All stories MUST include a disclaimer)
Su= mmary:

Please go here for more complete guidelines on this: http://www.ofelvesandmen.com/SubmissionGuidelines.htm

We ho= pe that you have fun writing through the month of June and let me,=A0 aglar= ien1 or=A0 chaotic_binky know if you have any questions.

Thank you! =

Jane (phyncke)

--00c09f99e63810d3de048900e674-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3171 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10986 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2010 20:24:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2010 20:24:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f44.google.com) (74.125.82.44) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2010 20:24:18 -0000 X-Received: by wwi14 with SMTP id 14so3710wwi.17 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:24:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.169.68 with SMTP id m46mr3842572wel.58.1276633457397; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:24:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:24:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:24:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636416b29bc95f1048917633c From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Our Fifth Birthday Is Coming! We Need Celebration Ideas! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=yrFzwQRGziHXzk7m8bQHX8_gBX9b7AFWPyc5BDSPkPMDvUBOFtBS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636416b29bc95f1048917633c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Since conversation has died down on both birthday threads, then I am in the process of compiling all of the ideas and will have them posted shortly! :) Thanks to all who contributed ideas or opinions. But I also wanted to reply to Telron's post that brought up a few new points: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Telron wrote: > Or perhaps we should organize some SWG award? (if there isn't such yet). We had a writing contest three years ago (eegads, time flies!) on the 30th anniversary of the Silm. That's the only competition-type thing we've ever hosted. I seem to recall that on the LJ birthday thread, the idea was also brought up to give out silly awards to stories created for our birthday. Before SWG (BSE? Before SWG's Era?), there was a Silmarillion award called the Galvorn Award that I seem to recall operated under a similar less-than-serious principle. Is there anyone here who was involved with that? (Ithilwen? Darth? Anyone else?) > I had also the idea living since B2MEM 2010 about organizing a more or less permanent RPG forum Rhapsody and I were talking about this on the SWG mod forum, based on your suggestion, Telron. We're certainly receptive to the idea, if there's interest. :) We're looking into bridging our archive to a couple different types of software to make the group more inclusive of Silm fans who may not be avid writers but still want to be active in the community. Unfortunately, because I move like molasses in December, so do plans around here. ;) But we are discussing different options and certainly welcome feedback on what people would like to see us add to the site or expressions of interest in proposed additions (like an RPG). Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636416b29bc95f1048917633c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since conversation has died down on both birthday threads, then I am in the= process of compiling all of the ideas and will have them posted shortly! := ) Thanks to all who contributed ideas or opinions. But I also wanted to rep= ly to Telron's post that brought up a few new points:

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Telron <telron_dragon@yahoo.com= > wrote:
> Or perhaps we should organize some SWG award? (i= f there isn't such yet).

We had a writing contest three years a= go (eegads, time flies!) on the 30th anniversary of the Silm. That's th= e only competition-type thing we've ever hosted. I seem to recall that = on the LJ birthday thread, the idea was also brought up to give out silly a= wards to stories created for our birthday.

Before SWG (BSE? Before = SWG's Era?), there was a Silmarillion award called the Galvorn Award th= at I seem to recall operated under a similar less-than-serious principle. I= s there anyone here who was involved with that? (Ithilwen? Darth? Anyone el= se?)

> I had also the idea living since B2MEM 2010 about organiz= ing a more or less permanent RPG forum

Rhapsody and I were talking = about this on the SWG mod forum, based on your suggestion, Telron. We'r= e certainly receptive to the idea, if there's interest. :) We're lo= oking into bridging our archive to a couple different types of software to = make the group more inclusive of Silm fans who may not be avid writers but = still want to be active in the community.

Unfortunately, because I = move like molasses in December, so do plans around here. ;) But we are disc= ussing different options and certainly welcome feedback on what people woul= d like to see us add to the site or expressions of interest in proposed add= itions (like an RPG).

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagu= nd
http://themid= havens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636416b29bc95f1048917633c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3172 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67821 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2010 21:55:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2010 21:55:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f169.google.com) (74.125.82.169) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2010 21:55:35 -0000 X-Received: by wyf28 with SMTP id 28so5723391wyf.14 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:55:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.164.68 with SMTP id b46mr3883632wel.45.1276638933863; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:55:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 17:55:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e65ae05228cc9e048918aa32 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Fifth Birthday Ideas, Part the Second X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=X6XkRORqHZ7ddYpyrVD7U-em11JhSJiOn8VZBa3tkkWULzTpV0Uk X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e65ae05228cc9e048918aa32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, First of all, thank you to everyone who contributed ideas or weighed in on our discussion of possible plans for our birthday. (For those of you who may have missed it, SWG will turn five at the end of July, so we are coming up with possible ideas to celebrate.) Not surprisingly for such an imaginative bunch, you all came up with some awesome ideas! I am going to compile a list of ideas here with the goal of whittling it down to a few favorites that we can vote on. A few thoughts: this is a very diverse group, so whatever we do should be inclusive of as many of our members as possible. Even though we are the Silmarillion *Writers'* Guild, our membership also includes artists and people who just like to discuss JRRT's stories. Ideas range from very specific, such as a specific challenge, to very broad, such as a month of different challenges. We may be able to combine multiple ideas to create a single event. We're certainly open to suggestions on that. If you contributed an idea and don't see it here, that is not because I didn't think it would work or that it didn't deserve to be included. It's because I forgot or overlooked it, plain and simple, while working between the many threads of this discussion. Please email me at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com or leave a comment on the LJ or Yahoo groups, and I'll not only fix my mistake but send some kind of homemade baked good or candy in apology. I'd send some of my homemade ice cream but suspect it would melt in the mail. Finally, I'd like to be able to set up a poll in a week, on 22 June. Please email me or note your favorites in a comment to the LJ or Yahoo lists before then. *List of Ideas* *Challenges* **"Five things" challenge--stories/art constructed around a challenge beginning with "Five Things ..." (e.g., Elleth's "Five Things That Never Happened to Maglor Feanorion") **"Five ages" challenge--each week focuses on stories/art for a particular age, created for a daily challenge or theme **"Different themes of the Ainulindale" challenge--change a canon detail to show the story as it might have unfolded in the first or second themes of the Music **A different challenge theme each week for a month, suggested by members, of course **Recommendation challenge--recommend a story from the archive that fits a weekly/daily theme **Remix challenge--expand a detail or incident described in another author's story or illustrate an existing story *Competitions* **A writing contest--create a story and members vote for their favorite **Silly awards--members hand out awards for not-so-serious topics **Silmfic award--members nominate and vote for a favorite Silm story* Other Stuff!* **A compilation of work (old and new) that matches a daily/weekly challenge or theme (e.g., Seven in '07 or B2MeM 2008) **"Stories We Dare Not Tell"--outline a story you would be too embarrassed to write but sorta secretly find compelling **Fic swap--request a story to be written by one of our members and also write a story for someone else Here is the same thread on LJ for those who prefer to comment over there: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/162447.html -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e65ae05228cc9e048918aa32 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

Hi, all,

First of all, thank you to everyone who contributed ideas or weighed in on our discussion of possible plans for our birthday. (For those of you who may have missed it, SWG will turn five at the end of July, so we are coming up with possible ideas to celebrate.) Not surprisingly for such an imaginative bunch, you all came up with some awesome ideas! I am going to compile a list of ideas here with the goal of whittling it down to a few favorites that we can vote on.

A few thoughts: this is a very diverse group, so whatever we do should be inclusive of as many of our members as possible. Even though we are the Silmarillion Writers' Guild, our membership also includes artists and people who just like to discuss JRRT's stories.

Ideas range from very specific, such as a specific challenge, to very broad, such as a month of different challenges. We may be able to combine multiple ideas to create a single event. We're certainly open to suggestions on that.

If you contributed an idea and don't see it here, that is not because I didn't think it would work or that it didn't deserve to be included. It's because I forgot or overlooked it, plain and simple, while working between the many threads of this discussion. Please email me at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com or leave a comment on the LJ or Yahoo groups, and I'll not only fix my mistake but send some kind of homemade baked good or candy in apology. I'd send some of my homemade ice cream but suspect it would melt in the mail.

Finally, I'd like to be able to set up a poll in a week, on 22 June. Please email me or note your favorites in a comment to the LJ or Yahoo lists before then.

List of Ideas

Challenges

**"Five things" challenge--stories/art constructed around a challenge beginning with "Five Things ..." (e.g., Elleth's "Five Things That Never Happened to Maglor Feanorion")

**"Five ages" challenge--each week focuses on stories/art for a particular age, created for a daily challenge or theme

**"Different themes of the Ainulindale" challenge--change a canon detail to show the story as it might have unfolded in the first or second themes of the Music

**A different challenge theme each week for a month, suggested by members, of course

**Recommendation challenge--recommend a story from the archive that fits a weekly/daily theme

**Remix challenge--expand a detail or incident described in another author's story or illustrate an existing story

Competitions

**A writing contest--create a story and members vote for their favorite
**Silly awards--members hand out awards for not-so-serious topics
**Silmfic award--members nominate and vote for a favorite Silm story

Other Stuff!

**A compilation of work (old and new) that matches a daily/weekly challenge or theme (e.g., Seven in '07 or B2MeM 2008)
**"Stories We Dare Not Tell"--outline a story you would be too embarrassed to write but sorta secretly find compelling
**Fic swap--request a story to be written by one of our members and also write a story for someone else

Here is the same thread on LJ for those who prefer to comment over there:
http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/162447.html

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e65ae05228cc9e048918aa32-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3173 Return-Path: X-Sender: melissa_pch@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27676 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2010 23:29:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2010 23:29:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web76801.mail.sg1.yahoo.com) (124.108.123.105) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2010 23:29:02 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 2460 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Jun 2010 23:28:47 -0000 Message-ID: <857066.2452.qm@web76801.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: FYHIi6UVM1k.uRwDNAIo8t1t3_7.KNizMrCaEksGQRJw6_x jQxApIcmTRk1vHp0H61E1ZFViaIytWoPuEEMlgZmvQsbQT2Io70v5bd1vqBE GXc26xpO.J4J3cXQCWYzDBJnwUUGBSgTeRzJ5EkIhAIJMzh9F4N2Gz2wKHIE t24F8HnSbFFFYIYsccZTrlKGpqHUuYG_xf0FqouawxjcYakbMAmw.2G9fzXe ceaAO0MgaGaWc5A709n6x8LkifjY1HNBX3eQWuM9Zg94_fCI0H.TXl0b.oi_ JGTWgjZ2zIcHW21Ul_mTYR_EpmRHvvDZtLCNBNXB4MHmARMi4T2bvZWXjMiM ILltvTDoms3Xf1waeywhiDov4YoY2bksjDnghnV8FI2s7gz2X X-Received: from [125.160.232.16] by web76801.mail.sg1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 07:28:47 SGT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.1.4 YahooMailWebService/0.8.104.274457 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 07:28:47 +0800 (SGT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-516420976-1276644527=:2452" From: melissa chandra Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fifth Birthday Ideas, Part the Second X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321482781; y=Jml8uq_W-4FkGmeZ38oX4d9LYbyR5jO0DxptroNSUSmxbIO4tos X-Yahoo-Profile: melissa_pch --0-516420976-1276644527=:2452 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, =C2=A0 Sorry for contributing only now. Real and online lives are ki= lling me slowly... =C2=A0 I love the "five things" challenge, the remix cha= llenge, the silly awards, and the fic swap. But the "five ages" challenge i= s good too, and the Ainulindal=C3=AB challenge is certainly interesting. Wr= iting competition never loses its appeal, too, and the embarrassing-idea-ou= tlining is getting me hooked, fast. :) =C2=A0 Oh. All right... Still too ge= neral? :sheepish: Well, I would vote for silly awards and fic swap, then. (= Awwh. Can't we have two events going? :puppydog eyes:) I don't know where t= he poll will be hosted, by the way... Where? =C2=A0 - Rey =C2=A0 --- On T= ue, 6/15/10, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Fel= agund Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fifth Bi= rthday Ideas, Part the Second To: "SWG" Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 5:55 PM =C2=A0 Hi, all, First= of all, thank you to everyone who contributed ideas or weighed in on our d= iscussion of possible plans for our birthday. (For those of you who may hav= e missed it, SWG will turn five at the end of July, so we are coming up wit= h possible ideas to celebrate.) Not surprisingly for such an imaginative bu= nch, you all came up with some awesome ideas! I am going to compile a list = of ideas here with the goal of whittling it down to a few favorites that we= can vote on. A few thoughts: this is a very diverse group, so whatever we= do should be inclusive of as many of our members as possible. Even though = we are the Silmarillion Writers' Guild, our membership also includes artist= s and people who just like to discuss JRRT's stories. Ideas range from ver= y specific, such as a specific challenge, to very broad, such as a month of= different challenges. We may be able to combine multiple ideas to create a= single event. We're certainly open to suggestions on that. If you contrib= uted an idea and don't see it here, that is not because I didn't think it w= ould work or that it didn't deserve to be included. It's because I forgot o= r overlooked it, plain and simple, while working between the many threads o= f this discussion. Please email me at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com or leav= e a comment on the LJ or Yahoo groups, and I'll not only fix my mistake but= send some kind of homemade baked good or candy in apology. I'd send some o= f my homemade ice cream but suspect it would melt in the mail. Finally, I'= d like to be able to set up a poll in a week, on 22 June. Please email me o= r note your favorites in a comment to the LJ or Yahoo lists before then. L= ist of Ideas Challenges **"Five things" challenge--stories/ art construct= ed around a challenge beginning with "Five Things ..." (e.g., Elleth's "Fiv= e Things That Never Happened to Maglor Feanorion") **"Five ages" challenge= --each week focuses on stories/art for a particular age, created for a dail= y challenge or theme **"Different themes of the Ainulindale" challenge--ch= ange a canon detail to show the story as it might have unfolded in the firs= t or second themes of the Music **A different challenge theme each week fo= r a month, suggested by members, of course **Recommendation challenge--rec= ommen d a story from the archive that fits a weekly/daily theme **Remix cha= llenge--expand a detail or incident described in another author's story or = illustrate an existing storyCompetitions **A writing contest--create a sto= ry and members vote for their favorite **Silly awards--members hand out awa= rds for not-so-serious topics **Silmfic award--members nominate and vote fo= r a favorite Silm story Other Stuff! **A compilation of work (old and new= ) that matches a daily/weekly challenge or theme (e.g., Seven in '07 or B2M= eM 2008) **"Stories We Dare Not Tell"--outline a story you would be too emb= arrassed to write but sorta secretly find compelling **Fic swap--request a = story to be written by one of our members and also write a story for someon= e else Here is the same thread on LJ for those who prefer to comment over = there: http://community. livejournal. com/silwritersgu ild/162447. html --= ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/ http://= www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org --0-516420976-1276644527=:2452 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
 
Sorr= y for contributing only now. Real and online lives are killing me slowly...=
 
I love the "five things" challenge, the remix= challenge, the silly awards, and the fic swap. But the "five ages" challen= ge is good too, and the Ainulindal=C3=AB challenge is certainly interesting. Writing competition n= ever loses its appeal, too, and the embarrassing-idea-outlining is getting = me hooked, fast. :)
 
Oh. All right... Still too general? :sheepish: Well, I wou= ld vote for silly awards and fic swap, then. (Awwh. Can't we have two event= s going? :puppydog eyes:) I don't know where the poll will be hosted, by th= e way... Where?
 
- Rey
 


--- On Tue, 6/15/10, Dawn= Felagund wrote:

From: Dawn Felagund
S= ubject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fifth Birthday Ideas, Part the SecondTo: "SWG"
Date: Tuesda= y, June 15, 2010, 5:55 PM

 
Hi, all,

= First of all, thank you to everyone who contributed ideas or weighed in on = our discussion of possible plans for our birthday. (For those of you who ma= y have missed it, SWG will turn five at the end of July, so we are coming u= p with possible ideas to celebrate.) Not surprisingly for such an imaginati= ve bunch, you all came up with some awesome ideas! I am going to compile a = list of ideas here with the goal of whittling it down to a few favorites th= at we can vote on.

A few thoughts: this is a very diverse group, so = whatever we do should be inclusive of as many of our members as possible. E= ven though we are the Silmarillion Writers' Guild, our mem= bership also includes artists and people who just like to discuss JRRT's st= ories.

Ideas range from very specific, such as a specific challenge,= to very broad, such as a month of different challenges. We may be able to = combine multiple ideas to create a single event. We're certainly open to s= uggestions on that.

If you contributed an idea and don't see it here= , that is not because I didn't think it would work or that it didn't deserv= e to be included. It's because I forgot or overlooked it, plain and simple,= while working between the many threads of this discussion. Please email me= at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com or leave a comment on the LJ or Yahoo gro= ups, and I'll not only fix my mistake but send some kind of homemade baked = good or candy in apology. I'd send some of my homemade ice cream but suspec= t it would melt in the mail.

Finally, I'd like to be able to set up = a poll in a week, on 22 June. Please email me or note your favorites in a c= omment to the LJ or Yahoo lists before then.

List of Ideas

Challenges
**"Five things" challenge= --stories/ art constructed around a challenge beginning with "Five Things .= .." (e.g., Elleth's "Five Things That Never Happened to Maglor Feanorion")<= BR>
**"Five ages" challenge--each week focuses on stories/art fo= r a particular age, created for a daily challenge or theme
*= *"Different themes of the Ainulindale" challenge--change a canon detail to = show the story as it might have unfolded in the first or second themes of t= he Music
**A different challenge theme each week for a month= , suggested by members, of course
**Recommendation challenge= --recommen d a story from the archive that fits a weekly/daily theme
=
**Remix challenge--expand a detail or incident described in another au= thor's story or illustrate an existing story
Competitions
=
**A writing contest--create a story and members vote for their favorite=
**Silly awards--members hand out awards for not-so-serious topics
**= Silmfic award--members nominate and vote for a favorite Silm story
<= BR>Other Stuff!

**A compilation of work (old and new) that matc= hes a daily/weekly challenge or theme (e.g., Seven in '07 or B2MeM 2008)**"Stories We Dare Not Tell"--outline a story you would be too embarrassed= to write but sorta secretly find compelling
**Fic swap--request a story= to be written by one of our members and also write a story for someone els= e

Here is the same thread on LJ for those who prefer to comment over= there:
http://community. livejournal. com= /silwritersgu ild/162447. html

--
~oOo~
Dawn = Felagund
http://themidhavens .net/heretic_ loremaster/<= BR>http://www.silmaril lionwritersguild .org

--0-516420976-1276644527=:2452-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3174 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25688 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2010 01:27:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jun 2010 01:27:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f43.google.com) (74.125.82.43) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2010 01:27:07 -0000 X-Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15so357490wwe.30 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 18:27:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.86.199 with SMTP id w49mr4345003wee.84.1276651626550; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 18:27:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.4.84 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 18:27:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <857066.2452.qm@web76801.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> References: <857066.2452.qm@web76801.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:27:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d9a3bab3d6bd04891b9eac From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fifth Birthday Ideas, Part the Second X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=z5_hXFb5x5Fs2d28jXcOyUVmfABzZvCuPOvhVK8GPz_3I8q7wkC1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d9a3bab3d6bd04891b9eac Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 7:28 PM, melissa chandra wrote: Hi, Rey! > Sorry for contributing only now. Real and online lives are killing me slowly... I so hear you on that one. Now that I'm done with schoolwork, the to-do list on my desk of things I wasn't doing while in school is drowning all of my free time! :) > Well, I would vote for silly awards and fic swap, then. (Awwh. Can't we have two events going? :puppydog eyes:) Of course! I think that many of the ideas on the list could be combined. Also, we can do other things on the list at a later date, too. Since this group has never been one to let grass grow under its feet, we'll be looking for ideas for the next event soon enough, I'm sure. There's B2MeM 2011 too ... ;) > I don't know where the poll will be hosted, by the way... Where? I'll most likely post it on the website and link to it here and on LJ. As always, I will take votes over email for those who prefer to register them that way, too. Thanks for the input, Rey! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d9a3bab3d6bd04891b9eac Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 7:28 PM, melissa chandra <melissa_pch@yahoo.com> = wrote:

Hi, Rey!

> Sorry for contributing only now. Real an= d online lives are killing me slowly...

I so hear you on that one. = Now that I'm done with schoolwork, the to-do list on my desk of things = I wasn't doing while in school is drowning all of my free time! :)
<= br>> Well, I would vote for silly awards and fic swap, then= . (Awwh. Can't we have two events going? :puppydog eyes:)
Of course! I think that many of the ideas on the list could be combined.<= br>
Also, we can do other things on the list at a later date, too. Since= this group has never been one to let grass grow under its feet, we'll = be looking for ideas for the next event soon enough, I'm sure. There= 9;s B2MeM 2011 too ... ;)

> I don't know where = the poll will be hosted, by the way... Where?

I'll most = likely post it on the website and link to it here and on LJ. As always, I w= ill take votes over email for those who prefer to register them that way, t= oo.

Thanks for the input, Rey! :)

Dawn



--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org
--0016e6d9a3bab3d6bd04891b9eac-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3175 Return-Path: X-Sender: telron_dragon@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53332 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2010 15:34:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jun 2010 15:34:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jun 2010 15:34:35 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jun 2010 15:31:54 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jun 2010 15:31:54 -0000 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 15:31:51 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "Telron" Subject: Re: Our Fifth Birthday Is Coming! We Need Celebration Ideas! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=356670492; y=bwyE4APKNbnZ6xwnQTipC9j-IUDXNweSHfIi80Jh2u3BCaYLHB4hGw X-Yahoo-Profile: telron_dragon Thank you very much for the reply, Dawn - sorry that I found it so late! BT= W, have you got my letter about a week ago? > Rhapsody and I were talking = about this on the SWG mod forum, based on your suggestion, Telron. We're ce= rtainly receptive to the idea, if there's interest. :) We're looking into b= ridging our archive to a couple different types of software to make the gro= up more inclusive of Silm fans who may not be avid writers but still want t= o be active in the community. > Unfortunately, because I move like molasses= in December, so do plans around here. ;) But we are discussing different o= ptions and certainly welcome feedback on what people would like to see us a= dd to the site or expressions of interest in proposed additions (like an RP= G). Well, I see =3D) So when there are enough people who are eager... (th= ere seemed to be many after the B2MEM, but it all vanished then) As for mo= re ideas gathered - they are interesting too (I like the "five things" most= I guess, besides the remix idea). From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3176 Return-Path: X-Sender: alassante7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45388 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2010 19:53:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jun 2010 19:53:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.98) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2010 19:53:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 97967 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jun 2010 19:53:32 -0000 Message-ID: <456016.97739.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: xdJkWzcVM1nvQO_Msp0j8RYk3Z8w7y6O.QM.VT9nKBA9ou3 Aay2J0lBxXia5fvA9kMk2chsb3JFpip8f_sJv65YXLZqgAYDMB6wsyA800rO NUb4mYfhxYfJ97zy3_Uowv_KW5uOQpJdg48l2vN6GgauYbWh67ZphDBOyvam ircoqW1Y5zgKpXeSldYKt1ZRwN8NnASkXdykEMpwwKUGcKxwdOT2V.7zcWWn yqvUeBD4s6BOYqY.mXZxSbsqCisU5VgHTTA3hwRtko1CY8KkCyS85WZQzK17 jJZ6MvpeaxiZvmzK1smr3uGh4CXIq.AuqoiJZqQ0X6VRfcVGpnnhNnako7j4 GppwtimNi3VN5.M5xdtK.Tw-- X-Received: from [208.78.72.18] by web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 12:53:32 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/397.8 YahooMailWebService/0.8.104.274457 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 12:53:32 -0700 (PDT) To: LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, lotr-research@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild , open_scrolls@yahoogroups.com, MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, ALEC Voting , christiankanesizzles@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1176303495-1277927612=:97739" From: Alassante7 Subject: OT - AOL hacking? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=220965051; y=tdNXAzY2-CL-bPDGPnuKBnAwjnYVUvfqSDK0KLy7tRniKErQQA X-Yahoo-Profile: alassante7 --0-1176303495-1277927612=:97739 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recently two people=A0from the LOTR fandom who are my=A0contact list have b= een sending out spam. Both of them were from AOL email addresses. I contact= ed the first one and found out she never used that AOL account anymore. She= changed the password and=A0hopefully that's all it will take. Don't know i= f the second one uses that=A0email anymore or not. I couldn't find anything= online (very quick search, it might actually be out there) about a specifi= c AOL hacking issues but I did find this=A0article: http://mac.zicos.com/n= ews.php/n/25087544/Change-Your-Passwords-Email-Account-Hacking-on-the-Rise = If you have an AOL account, or any others like yahoo and hotmail, you migh= t want to change your password. =A0 ~~**~~ >=A0http://www.aldis-hodge.com >= Age of the Geek, Baby! Alec Hardison, Leverage >=A0 >=A0http://www.twitter/= com/alikat_7 >http://www.myspace.com/ali.kat >Behold the power of fangirls= , Grifters, and KANIACS! >=A0 >http://alikatkaniac.livejournal.com >I warn= you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.=A0 >JRR Tolkien --0-1176303495-1277927612=:97739 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Recently two people from the LO= TR fandom who are my contact list have been sending out spam. Both of = them were from AOL email addresses. I contacted the first one and found out= she never used that AOL account anymore. She changed the password and = ;hopefully that's all it will take. Don't know if the second one uses that&= nbsp;email anymore or not. I couldn't find anything online (very quick sear= ch, it might actually be out there) about a specific AOL hacking issues but= I did find this article:
Age of the Geek, Baby! Alec Hardison, Leverage<= /DIV>
&n= bsp;
Behold the power of fangirls, Grifte= rs, and KANIACS!
<= /STRONG> 
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
<= /FONT>=
<= br> --0-1176303495-1277927612=:97739-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3177 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87313 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2010 21:40:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jun 2010 21:40:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f182.google.com) (74.125.82.182) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2010 21:40:21 -0000 X-Received: by wyb34 with SMTP id 34so1559278wyb.41 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:40:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.88.4 with SMTP id z4mr7808774wee.107.1277934020593; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:40:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.38.131 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:40:19 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99efa580a4d048a46334a From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Your Burning Linguistic Questions Answered! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Il_FBMt3feKrLQkADed8Ll1jsshz3od2_Ey6oZEQ1DYF1LRqrXDU X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d99efa580a4d048a46334a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, As many of you know, we have a regular column in our newsletter called Linguistic Foolery in which our resident linguistic expert Darth Fingon answers questions and solves common fanfic quandaries using Tolkien's linguistic sources. (Past columns are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/linguistic_foolery.php) The column is always open to questions from the audience and, in talking with Darth the past few days about the column, he could use some ideas about what people want to know more about. So, if you've ever wondered about something, we'd love to hear from you! Looking over past columns, Darth has tackled all manner of questions from a linguistic perspective, at times illuminating answers that aren't available in the traditional canon sources. (For example, were Elves vegetarians? Did they commit crimes? Keep slaves? These questions have been answered in past columns!) Please post your questions to the list or email them to our Reference moderators at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Thank you! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d99efa580a4d048a46334a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

As many of you know, we have a regular column in our newsle= tter called Linguistic Foolery in which our resident linguistic expert Dart= h Fingon answers questions and solves common fanfic quandaries using Tolkie= n's linguistic sources. (Past columns are here: http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/linguistic_foolery.php) The column= is always open to questions from the audience and, in talking with Darth t= he past few days about the column, he could use some ideas about what peopl= e want to know more about. So, if you've ever wondered about something,= we'd love to hear from you! Looking over past columns, Darth has tackl= ed all manner of questions from a linguistic perspective, at times illumina= ting answers that aren't available in the traditional canon sources. (F= or example, were Elves vegetarians? Did they commit crimes? Keep slaves? Th= ese questions have been answered in past columns!)

Please post your= questions to the list or email them to our Reference moderators at loremas= ter AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.

Thank you! :)

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremast= er/
http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6d99efa580a4d048a46334a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3178 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22021 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2010 21:46:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jun 2010 21:46:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.146) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2010 21:46:47 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-da04.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o5ULke6N032347 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:46:40 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id r.e8c.26da48a (34957) for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:46:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from magic-m26.mail.aol.com (magic-m26.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.199]) by cia-da06.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA066-888d4c2bbb3b6; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:46:35 -0400 Message-ID: <57b41.21ed0331.395d153b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:46:35 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_57b41.21ed0331.395d153b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 68.173.235.252 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.22.199 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Heartofoshun@aol.com From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Your Burning Linguistic Questions Answered! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=VZzS4048u5q7bnafvOYAQfBCoalV9J6VbL4gPMBmJR2gjJTm6qQL X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun --part1_57b41.21ed0331.395d153b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en He could always complain about bad naming in fan fics. (And pimp his own = fabulous name generating on his own website Elffetish.) Before he set that = thing up I wrote nearly entirely canon characters because I was mortified= at the idea of creating awful, inauthentic names. His descriptions of wh= ich names didn't work and why not had totally intimidated me. Now I can a= ctually name those OCs one needs in a well-rounded story. In a messag= e dated 6/30/2010 5:40:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.= com writes: Hi, all, As many of you know, we have a regular column = in our newsletter called Linguistic Foolery in which our resident linguis= tic expert Darth Fingon answers questions and solves common fanfic quanda= ries using Tolkien's linguistic sources. (Past columns are here: _http:/= /www.silmarilhttp://www.silmahttp://www.silmhttp://www.http://www._ (http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/linguistic_foolery.php) ) The= column is always open to questions from the audience and, in talking with= Darth the past few days about the column, he could use some ideas about = what people want to know more about. So, if you've ever wondered about so= mething, we'd love to hear from you! Looking over past columns, Darth has= tackled all manner of questions from a linguistic perspective, at times = illuminating answers that aren't available in the traditional canon sourc= es. (For example, were Elves vegetarians? Did they commit crimes? Kee p s= laves? These questions have been answered in past columns!) Please post = your questions to the list or email them to our Reference moderators at l= oremaster AT silmarillionwritersPlease post yo Thank you! :) Dawn -- ~= oOo~ Dawn Felagund _http://themidhavenshttp://themidhttp://them_ (http://t= hemidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/) _http://www.silmarilhttp://www.silmah= ttp_ (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/) --part1_57b41.21ed0331.395d153b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =
He could always co= mplain about bad naming in fan fics. (And pimp his own fabulous name gener= ating on his own website Elffetish.) Before he set that thing up I wrote n= early entirely canon characters because I was mortified at the idea of cre= ating awful, inauthentic names. His descriptions of which names didn'= t work and why not had totally intimidated me. Now I can actually name tho= se OCs one needs in a well-rounded story.
 
In a message dated 6/30/2010 5:40:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, DawnFel= agund@gmail.com writes:
 

Hi, all,

= As many of you know, we have a regular column in our newsletter called L= inguistic Foolery in which our resident linguistic expert Darth Fingon a= nswers questions and solves common fanfic quandaries using Tolkien's lin= guistic sources. (Past columns are here: http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/linguistic_fool= ery.php) The column is always open to questions from the audience an= d, in talking with Darth the past few days about the column, he could us= e some ideas about what people want to know more about. So, if you've ev= er wondered about something, we'd love to hear from you! Looking over pa= st columns, Darth has tackled all manner of questions from a linguistic = perspective, at times illuminating answers that aren't available in the = traditional canon sources. (For example, were Elves vegetarians? Did the= y commit crimes? Kee p slaves? These questions have been answered in pas= t columns!)

Please post your questions to the list or email them = to our Reference moderators at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersgui= ld DOT org.

Thank you! :)

Dawn

--
= ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://t= hemidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

<= /DIV>
<= /DIV> --part1_57b41.21ed0331.395d153b_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3179 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65027 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2010 21:48:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jun 2010 21:48:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma05.mx.aol.com) (64.12.100.31) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2010 21:48:27 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o5ULmA3D028836 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:48:10 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id r.e4e.522892e (37128) for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:48:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from magic-m26.mail.aol.com (magic-m26.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.199]) by cia-ma02.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA022-91084c2bbb9560; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:48:05 -0400 Message-ID: <57cc4.5c927111.395d1595@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:48:05 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_57cc4.5c927111.395d1595_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 68.173.235.252 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.22.199 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Your Burning Linguistic Questions Answered! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ENKCOq3QrjctXxoOpAIeKTrUUwiSxoI1U_9P0gCb-at0_9HeioiE X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun --part1_57cc4.5c927111.395d1595_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Correcting myself: his "name generator"! In a message dated 6/30/2010 5= :46:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, heartofoshun@aol.com writes: He= could always complain about bad naming in fan fics. (And pimp his own fa= bulous name generating on his own website Elffetish.) Before he set that = thing up I wrote nearly entirely canon characters because I was mortified a= t the idea of creating awful, inauthentic names. His descriptions of whic= h names didn't work and why not had totally intimidated me. Now I can act= ually name those OCs one needs in a well-rounded story. In a message = dated 6/30/2010 5:40:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, DawnFelagund@In a mes= sage date Hi, all, As many of you know, we have a regular column in our= newsletter called Linguistic Foolery in which our resident linguistic ex= pert Darth Fingon answers questions and solves common fanfic quandaries u= sing Tolkien's linguistic sources. (Past columns are here: _http://www.s= ilmarilhttp://www.silmahttp://www.silmhttp://www.http://www._ (http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/linguistic_foolery.php) ) The colum= n is always open to questions from the audience and, in talking with Dart= h the past few days about the column, he could use some ideas about what = people want to know more about. So, if you've ever wondered about somethi= ng, we'd love to hear from you! Looking over past columns, Darth has tack= led all manner of questions from a linguistic perspective, at times illum= inating answers that aren't available in the traditional canon sources. (= For example, were Elves vegetarians? Did they commit crimes? Kee p slaves?= These questions have been answered in past columns!) Please post your = questions to the list or email them to our Reference moderators at lorema= ster AT silmarillionwritersPlease post yo Thank you! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ = Dawn Felagund _http://themidhavenshttp://themidhttp://them_ (http://themid= havens.net/heretic_loremaster/) _http://www.silmarilhttp://www.silmahttp_ = (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/) --part1_57cc4.5c927111.395d1595_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =
Correcting myself:= his "name generator"!
 
In a message date= d 6/30/2010 5:46:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, heartofoshun@aol.com write= s:
 = ;

He could always complain about bad naming in fan fics. (An= d pimp his own fabulous name generating on his own website Elffetish.) B= efore he set that thing up I wrote nearly entirely canon characters beca= use I was mortified at the idea of creating awful, inauthentic name= s. His descriptions of which names didn't work and why not had totally i= ntimidated me. Now I can actually name those OCs one needs in a well-rou= nded story.
 
In a message dated 6/3= 0/2010 5:40:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com w= rites:
 

Hi, all,
As many of you know, we have a regular column in our newsletter c= alled Linguistic Foolery in which our resident linguistic expert Darth= Fingon answers questions and solves common fanfic quandaries using To= lkien's linguistic sources. (Past columns are here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/lingu= istic_foolery.php) The column is always open to questions fro= m the audience and, in talking with Darth the past few days about the = column, he could use some ideas about what people want to know more ab= out. So, if you've ever wondered about something, we'd love to hear fr= om you! Looking over past columns, Darth has tackled all manner of que= stions from a linguistic perspective, at times illuminating answers th= at aren't available in the traditional canon sources. (For example, we= re Elves vegetarians? Did they commit crimes? Kee p slaves? These ques= tions have been answered in past columns!)

Please post your que= stions to the list or email them to our Reference moderators at lorema= ster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.

Thank you! :)
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_l= oremaster/
http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org

=
<= /FONT> --part1_57cc4.5c927111.395d1595_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3180 Return-Path: X-Sender: shivna1980@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30248 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2010 04:41:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2010 04:41:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2010 04:41:45 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2010 04:41:42 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2010 04:41:42 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 04:41:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "roisin_elendiel" Subject: Re: Your Burning Linguistic Questions Answered! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219639857; y=lYRbYuQed0aLhNTNpTsfsfIfPsaKYrlAxWtQLZoTJauE0KTTALKWRgSVkNL6Jz0rBRQdQg X-Yahoo-Profile: roisin_elendiel I like Oshun's idea of proper naming for characters. I especially would lik= e some advice on naming Numenorean characters because there seems to be som= e conflicting ideas regarding names of non royal characters and such. Oh, = and any help with Adunaic is always much appreciated and rewarded with brow= nies. :-) Roisin --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Fe= lagund wrote: > > Hi, all, > > As many of you know, we = have a regular column in our newsletter called > Linguistic Foolery in whic= h our resident linguistic expert Darth Fingon > answers questions and solve= s common fanfic quandaries using Tolkien's > linguistic sources. (Past colu= mns are here: > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/linguisti= c_foolery.php) > The column is always open to questions from the audience a= nd, in talking > with Darth the past few days about the column, he could us= e some ideas about > what people want to know more about. So, if you've eve= r wondered about > something, we'd love to hear from you! Looking over past= columns, Darth has > tackled all manner of questions from a linguistic per= spective, at times > illuminating answers that aren't available in the trad= itional canon sources. > (For example, were Elves vegetarians? Did they com= mit crimes? Keep slaves? > These questions have been answered in past colum= ns!) > > Please post your questions to the list or email them to our Refer= ence > moderators at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. > > T= hank you! :) > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhave= ns.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3181 Return-Path: X-Sender: nmrussandol@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38202 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2010 17:33:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2010 17:33:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2010 17:33:25 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2010 17:29:47 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2010 17:29:47 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:29:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "nelyo_russandol" Subject: Re: Your Burning Linguistic Questions Answered! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=451526614; y=rhTjZlZbl-ij2Il2L4cP6sXw-BxvPk3pmTQfWLb5mFxt X-Yahoo-Profile: nelyo_russandol 1. Names of gems, metals and other glittery materials in Quenya/Sindarin. W= as mithril platinum, titanium or neither? How about the Gates of Moria? Tru= ly, I am desperate to know how to say mithril in Quenya. 2. Sindarin of Im= ladris vs. "Sinlaegrim" on Mirkwood (like Spanglish these days) or "would E= lladan and Elrohir ROTFL at Legolas' accent"? My two-pence! Russandol -= -- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, all, > > As many of you know, we have a regular colum= n in our newsletter called > Linguistic Foolery in which our resident lingu= istic expert Darth Fingon > answers questions and solves common fanfic quan= daries using Tolkien's > linguistic sources. (Past columns are here: > http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/linguistic_foolery.php) > The= column is always open to questions from the audience and, in talking > wit= h Darth the past few days about the column, he could use some ideas about >= what people want to know more about. So, if you've ever wondered about > s= omething, we'd love to hear from you! Looking over past columns, Darth has = > tackled all manner of questions from a linguistic perspective, at times >= illuminating answers that aren't available in the traditional canon source= s. > (For example, were Elves vegetarians? Did they commit crimes? Keep sla= ves? > These questions have been answered in past columns!) > > Please pos= t your questions to the list or email them to our Reference > moderators at= loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. > > Thank you! :) > > Da= wn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorem= aster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3182 Return-Path: X-Sender: nmrussandol@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48191 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2010 18:03:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2010 18:03:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2010 18:03:39 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2010 18:01:24 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2010 18:01:24 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 18:01:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "nelyo_russandol" Subject: Re: Your Burning Linguistic Questions Answered! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=451526614; y=oPaeKpdvYqBDelT-iwCuCo04vdXrMprUpw8xIF2S_bl4 X-Yahoo-Profile: nelyo_russandol Ooops. Sinlaegrin, even. ;o) --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.c= om, "nelyo_russandol" wrote: > > 1. Names of gems, metals= and other glittery materials in Quenya/Sindarin. Was mithril platinum, tit= anium or neither? How about the Gates of Moria? Truly, I am desperate to kn= ow how to say mithril in Quenya. > > 2. Sindarin of Imladris vs. "Sinlaegr= im" on Mirkwood (like Spanglish these days) or "would Elladan and Elrohir R= OTFL at Legolas' accent"? > > My two-pence! > Russandol > > > > --- In = SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wro= te: > > > > Hi, all, > > > > As many of you know, we have a regular column= in our newsletter called > > Linguistic Foolery in which our resident ling= uistic expert Darth Fingon > > answers questions and solves common fanfic q= uandaries using Tolkien's > > linguistic sources. (Past columns are here: >= > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/linguistic_foolery.php= ) > > The column is always open to questions from the audience and, in talk= ing > > with Darth the past few days about the column, he could use some id= eas about > > what people want to know more about. So, if you've ever wonde= red about > > something, we'd love to hear from you! Looking over past colu= mns, Darth has > > tackled all manner of questions from a linguistic perspe= ctive, at times > > illuminating answers that aren't available in the tradi= tional canon sources. > > (For example, were Elves vegetarians? Did they co= mmit crimes? Keep slaves? > > These questions have been answered in past co= lumns!) > > > > Please post your questions to the list or email them to ou= r Reference > > moderators at loremaster AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT or= g. > > > > Thank you! :) > > > > Dawn > > > > -- > > ~oOo~ > > Dawn Fel= agund > > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > > http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3183 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52746 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2010 18:08:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2010 18:08:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-db02.mx.aol.com) (205.188.91.96) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2010 18:08:39 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-db02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o61I8Znp021482 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:08:35 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id r.c27.820a77df (37559) for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:08:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from magic-d16.mail.aol.com (magic-d16.mail.aol.com [172.19.155.132]) by cia-mb03.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB038-92b74c2cd9a1264; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 14:08:33 -0400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:08:33 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e01dd.286a6f7.395e33a1_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 68.173.235.252 X-AOL-IP: 172.19.155.132 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Heartofoshun@aol.com From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Your Burning Linguistic Questions Answered! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=7hdQiXR4vQJQNXhAxnZjK-blbocDg9Bsb0eWCCXHO9Zn0cdZteAL X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun --part1_e01dd.286a6f7.395e33a1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Those are both terrific, Russandol! Especially, "would Elladan and Elrohir ROTFL at Legolas' accent." What fun. I would like to think they might! 1. Names of gems, metals and other glittery materials in Quenya/Sindarin. Was mithril platinum, titanium or neither? How about the Gates of Moria? Truly, I am desperate to know how to say mithril in Quenya. 2. Sindarin of Imladris vs. "Sinlaegrim" on Mirkwood (like Spanglish these days) or "would Elladan and Elrohir ROTFL at Legolas' accent"? My two-pence! Russandol --part1_e01dd.286a6f7.395e33a1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
 
Those are both terrific, Russandol! Especially, "would Elladan and Elrohir ROTFL at Legolas' accent." What fun. I wou= ld like to think they might!
= 1. Names of gems, metals and other glittery materials in Quenya/Sindarin= . Was mithril platinum, titanium or neither? How about the Gates of Mori= a? Truly, I am desperate to know how to say mithril in Quenya.

2.= Sindarin of Imladris vs. "Sinlaegrim" on Mirkwood (like Spanglish these= days) or "would Elladan and Elrohir ROTFL at Legolas' accent"?

M= y two-pence!
Russandol

 --part1_e01dd.286a6f7.395e33a1_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3184 Return-Path: X-Sender: nmrussandol@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78191 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2010 18:26:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2010 18:26:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2010 18:26:07 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2010 18:25:54 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2010 18:25:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 18:25:54 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "nelyo_russandol" Subject: Re: Your Burning Linguistic Questions Answered! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=451526614; y=lEwMAskwX6uC0469TjirUggAhX6bVopR_ke7pxFWpdRk X-Yahoo-Profile: nelyo_russandol I can just see them turning up their noses, the snobs... On the other hand,= perhaps Avarin accent is sexy? I am dying to find out. But please, Darth= , tell me about mithril too!! --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup= s.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > > Those are both terrific, Russandol! E= specially, "would Elladan and Elrohir > ROTFL at Legolas' accent." What fu= n. I would like to think they might! > > 1. Names of gems, metals and o= ther glittery materials in Quenya/Sindarin. > Was mithril platinum, titan= ium or neither? How about the Gates of Moria? > Truly, I am desperate to = know how to say mithril in Quenya. > > 2. Sindarin of Imladris vs. "Sinla= egrim" on Mirkwood (like Spanglish these > days) or "would Elladan and El= rohir ROTFL at Legolas' accent"? > > My two-pence! > Russandol > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3185 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29624 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2010 03:12:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2010 03:12:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f49.google.com) (209.85.215.49) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2010 03:12:49 -0000 X-Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so947420ewy.22 for ; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:12:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.213.26.70 with SMTP id d6mr95747ebc.2.1278040368465; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:12:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.213.22.195 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 20:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 23:12:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bdc4c2bc5ab048a5ef6eb From: Dawn Felagund Subject: July 2010 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=HkhBGlj5yf_kOgDrCnUS0MExWldvCOHQqRXIaYDFOxRtdYzbOvmM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174bdc4c2bc5ab048a5ef6eb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I'm just squeaking in under the wire but succeeded in getting the newsletter posted on time this month! \0/ And this month's is definitely one worth reading. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php To begin, Oshun has written a biography on Miriel Serinde, the mother of Feanor. There isn't much in the published *Silmarillion* about Miriel, but Tolkien had written quite a bit about her in the unpublished texts, and Oshun has done her usual fantastic job of rounding up all of these details and putting them together to give us a good picture of who Miriel was. In addition, she explores the deeper issues suggested by the character, which in Miriel's case is a range of topics from Valarin intervention into Elven affairs to the nature of Elven death and reincarnation. On a lighter note, Lil' Gothmog is back from his summer vacation in Pandemonium's always funny "Gothmog & Draugluin" comic strip, pondering why he won't end up with a little sibling and what that has to do with his father's lack of hair. And Whitewave's "Chibi of the Month" is back this month, with Miriel as a fiery fashionista turned tale of tragedy. Of course, there is also news from within the group. Our archive software was updated at the beginning of the month, so we have more details on that, as well as some pesky bugs that have been found crawling around on the archive. July 18 is International Day of Femslash, and we will once again be participating, so there is more information on that for anyone who is interested. We are also seeking some volunteers and answer some frequently asked questions about how challenges work in the SWG. Finally, if you want to contribute ideas for our birthday celebration, you are in luck because--thanks to my vacation and other summer-related busyness--I haven't been able to put together a poll, so we are still taking ideas and feedback. Please email us or comment on this LJ post with your ideas: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/162447.html http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php I hope everyone enjoys the newsletter! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174bdc4c2bc5ab048a5ef6eb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I'm just squeaking in under the wire but succeeded= in getting the newsletter posted on time this month! \0/ And this month= 9;s is definitely one worth reading.

http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org/news/newsletter.php

To begin, Oshun has written a biograp= hy on Miriel Serinde, the mother of Feanor. There isn't much in the pub= lished Silmarillion about Miriel, but Tolkien had written quite a bi= t about her in the unpublished texts, and Oshun has done her usual fantasti= c job of rounding up all of these details and putting them together to give= us a good picture of who Miriel was. In addition, she explores the deeper = issues suggested by the character, which in Miriel's case is a range of= topics from Valarin intervention into Elven affairs to the nature of Elven= death and reincarnation.

On a lighter note, Lil' Gothmog is ba= ck from his summer vacation in Pandemonium's always funny "Gothmog= & Draugluin" comic strip, pondering why he won't end up with = a little sibling and what that has to do with his father's lack of hair= . And Whitewave's "Chibi of the Month" is back this month, wi= th Miriel as a fiery fashionista turned tale of tragedy.

Of course,= there is also news from within the group. Our archive software was updated= at the beginning of the month, so we have more details on that, as well as= some pesky bugs that have been found crawling around on the archive. July = 18 is International Day of Femslash, and we will once again be participatin= g, so there is more information on that for anyone who is interested. We ar= e also seeking some volunteers and answer some frequently asked questions a= bout how challenges work in the SWG. Finally, if you want to contribute ide= as for our birthday celebration, you are in luck because--thanks to my vaca= tion and other summer-related busyness--I haven't been able to put toge= ther a poll, so we are still taking ideas and feedback. Please email us or = comment on this LJ post with your ideas: http://community.livejournal.com/sil= writersguild/162447.html

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/n= ews/newsletter.php

I hope everyone enjoys the newsletter! :)
=
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/hereti= c_loremaster/
ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015174bdc4c2bc5ab048a5ef6eb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3186 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90183 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2010 12:25:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2010 12:25:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f179.google.com) (74.125.82.179) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2010 12:25:50 -0000 X-Received: by wyf19 with SMTP id 19so491886wyf.38 for ; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:25:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.81.139 with SMTP id m11mr2510431wee.14.1278591948389; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:25:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.85 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 05:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:25:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636d3475ae57ee9048adf62da From: Dawn Felagund Subject: MEFA Check Ballots X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Y6FI-09clBlibn9OrojUHaPm-r_LaCac4d-A4dKkSkWZ9sJrRdO8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636d3475ae57ee9048adf62da Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I am passing on this message on behalf of Marta, the MEFA admin, for authors who have work nominated in this year's MEFAs. --- Every year, the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards posts a "draft" version of our categories and subcategories (and the stories competing in each), which authors and other fandom members can look over before this information is displayed on our website. The purpose is to give people, especially authors, a chance to ask for their stories to be moved. You can also read more about how checkballots work at --- community.livejournal.com/mefas/197122.html Check ballots will be posted at two places: --- community.livejournal.com/mefas/ --- groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/ You can reply to any check ballot to request a piece be moved. If you want a story move, please let us know by 11:59 PM, July 14, at the latest. Marta (MEFA Admin.) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636d3475ae57ee9048adf62da Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I am passing on this message on behalf of Marta, the M= EFA admin, for authors who have work nominated in this year's MEFAs.
---

Every year, the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards posts a &quo= t;draft" version of our categories and subcategories (and the stories= competing in each), which authors and other fandom members can look over = before this information is displayed on our website. The purpose is to giv= e people, especially authors, a chance to ask for their stories to be move= d.

You can also read more about how checkballots work at

= --- community.livejournal.com/mefas/197122.html

Check = ballots will be posted at two places:

--- community.livejournal.com/mef= as/
--- groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/

You can reply to= any check ballot to request a piece be moved.

If you want a story= move, please let us know by 11:59 PM, July 14, at the latest.

Ma= rta
(MEFA Admin.)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhaven= s.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636d3475ae57ee9048adf62da-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3187 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29705 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2010 01:55:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2010 01:55:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f182.google.com) (74.125.82.182) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2010 01:55:14 -0000 X-Received: by wyf22 with SMTP id 22so71105wyf.27 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:54:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.161.17 with SMTP id v17mr6407950wek.108.1278986053346; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:54:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.85 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:54:13 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367fb44f61e75a048b3b25fc From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Our Fifth Birthday! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=AdWOBcM_tGcn39iPd5QWSE7L37ekTz6G1L481UtYQ4yzHs91yxYX X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016367fb44f61e75a048b3b25fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The SWG is turning five at the end of the month! Because we are always looking for excuses to celebrate the creativity of our talented membership, then we asked everyone for ideas for how we could celebrate this milestone. You all generated lots of ideas, so we asked for feedback on favorites, intending to poll the group about what everyone wanted to do. However, we were able to fit all of the favorite ideas into a single event, so that's what we did. Thank you again to everyone who shared ideas and feedback on ideas! The description and guidelines for our birthday are up on the site: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php But, in a nutshell, the feedback we received suggested that everyone wanted to do three major things: look back at past accomplishments with a compilation (like Seven in '07), challenge ourselves to create new stories and art (like Akallabeth in August '09), and honor existing stories with some lighthearted prizes. Our initial post also generated lots of cool ideas for challenges and themes, so we also incorporated the ability for members to suggest the themes and prizes for the event so that those of you who came up with cool ideas for themes and challenges could toss them at the group and see what magic happens. There are multiple ways to participate in our birthday celebration: *Create a Theme.* Create a theme to challenge other SWG members. For each theme, we will make a compilation of older works, as well as accept new works created for the theme. Every SWG member can create one theme for our birthday event. *Create for a Theme.* Once we have a list of themes, we encourage everyone to send in older works for compilation and, if the muse speaks, create new stories, essays, poems, and artwork. *Create a Token.* Tokens are lighthearted "awards" created by and given by members. Each member may create one token for other members to give out to their favorite stories and authors. *Hand out Tokens.* Once we have a list of tokens, every SWG member is invited to award them to the story or author of her or his choice. We will display an icon on the story or author's page that you choose and let the author know that she or he has been honored! More details about all of this are available on our birthday page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php Please send your ideas for themes and tokens using the forms on that page or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Ideas for themes and tokens are due by August 7, but you will likely get a better response if you send them early. As usual, questions are welcome at that address as well, on the list, or directly to any of the group's moderators. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016367fb44f61e75a048b3b25fc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The SWG is turning five at the end of the month! Because we= are always looking for excuses to celebrate the creativity of our talented= membership, then we asked everyone for ideas for how we could celebrate th= is milestone. You all generated lots of ideas, so we asked for feedback on = favorites, intending to poll the group about what everyone wanted to do. Ho= wever, we were able to fit all of the favorite ideas into a single event, s= o that's what we did. Thank you again to everyone who shared ideas and = feedback on ideas!

The description and guidelines for our birthday = are up on the site:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php
But, in a nutshell, the feedback we received suggested that everyone = wanted to do three major things: look back at past accomplishments with a c= ompilation (like Seven in '07), challenge ourselves to create new stori= es and art (like Akallabeth in August '09), and honor existing stories = with some lighthearted prizes. Our initial post also generated lots of cool= ideas for challenges and themes, so we also incorporated the ability for m= embers to suggest the themes and prizes for the event so that those of you = who came up with cool ideas for themes and challenges could toss them at th= e group and see what magic happens.

There are multiple ways to part= icipate in our birthday celebration:

Create a Theme. Create a= theme to challenge other SWG members. For each theme, we will make a compi= lation of older works, as well as accept new works created for the theme. E= very SWG member can create one theme for our birthday event.

Cr= eate for a Theme. Once we have a list of themes, we encourage ev= eryone to send in older works for compilation and, if the muse speaks, crea= te new stories, essays, poems, and artwork.

Create a Token. T= okens are lighthearted "awards" created by and given by members. = Each member may create one token for other members to give out to their fav= orite stories and authors.

Hand out Tokens. Once we have a l= ist of tokens, every SWG member is invited to award them to the story or au= thor of her or his choice. We will display an icon on the story or author&#= 39;s page that you choose and let the author know that she or he has been h= onored!

More details about all of this are available on our birthda= y page:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php

Please= send your ideas for themes and tokens using the forms on that page or emai= l us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Ideas for themes and= tokens are due by August 7, but you will likely get a better response if y= ou send them early. As usual, questions are welcome at that address as well= , on the list, or directly to any of the group's moderators.

Be= st regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund<= br>http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016367fb44f61e75a048b3b25fc-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3188 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60152 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2010 02:06:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2010 02:06:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma03.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.41) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2010 02:06:07 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o6D25ZnC027150 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:05:35 -0400 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id r.d94.f839318 (45487) for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:05:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from magic-m26.mail.aol.com (magic-m26.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.199]) by cia-mc07.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMC072-b1af4c3bc9ea3bc; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:05:30 -0400 Message-ID: <79db5.319304d.396d23ea@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:05:30 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_79db5.319304d.396d23ea_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 68.173.235.252 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.22.199 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Our Fifth Birthday! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=JUC-9KthqiOjbS2o2U79lCpdJUIEx54VfqZg-K0XvLe2dDai09Q- X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun --part1_79db5.319304d.396d23ea_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Just looking at the proposals on-site. It looks absolutely terrific. Can't = wait to participate. Nice work! (Can you actually believe me--not whining= or complaining for a change?) Curmudgeonly yours, Oshun (so much fun= to be excited) In a message dated 7/12/2010 9:56:22 P.M. Eastern Dayli= ght Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: Hi, all, The SWG is turn= ing five at the end of the month! Because we are always looking for excus= es to celebrate the creativity of our talented membership, then we asked = everyone for ideas for how we could celebrate this milestone. You all gen= erated lots of ideas, so we asked for feedback on favorites, intending to= poll the group about what everyone wanted to do. However, we were able t= o fit all of the favorite ideas into a single event, so that's what we di= d. Thank you again to everyone who shared ideas and feedback on ideas! Th= e description and guidelines for our birthday are up on the site: _http:/= /www.silmarilhttp://www.silmahttp://www.silhtt_ (http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org/birthday.php) But, in a nutshell, the feedback we receive= d suggested that everyone wanted to do three major things: look back at p= ast accomplishments with a compilation (like Seven in '07), challenge our= selves to create new stories and art (like Akallabeth in August '09), and= honor existing stories with some lighthearted prizes. Our initial post a= lso generated lots of cool ideas for challenges and themes, so we also in= corporated the ability for members to suggest the themes and prizes for t= he event so that those of you who came up with cool ideas for themes and = challenges could toss them at the group and see what magic happens. Ther= e are multiple ways to participate in our birthday celebration: Create a = Theme. Create a theme to challenge other SWG members. For each theme, we = will make a compilation of older works, as well as accept new works creat= ed for the theme. Every SWG member can create one theme for our birthday = event. Create for a Theme. Once we have a list of themes, we encourage e= veryone to send in older works for compilation and, if the muse speaks, c= reate new stories, essays, poems, and artwork. Create a Token. Tokens ar= e lighthearted "awards" created by and given by members. Each member may = create one token for other members to give out to their favorite stories = and authors. Hand out Tokens. Once we have a list of tokens, every SWG me= mber is invited to award them to the story or author of her or his choice= . We will display an icon on the story or author's page that you choose a= nd let the author know that she or he has been honored! More details abo= ut all of this are available on our birthday page: _http://www.silmarilht= tp://www.silmahttp://www.silhtt_ (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/= birthday.php) Please send your ideas for themes and tokens using the for= ms on that page or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersPlease se= nd your ideas for themes and tokens using the forms on that page or email = us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Ideas for theme= s and tokens are due by August 7, but you will likely get a better respon= se if you se Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund _http://themid= havenshttp://themidhttp://them_ (http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaste= r/) _http://www.silmarilhttp://www.silmahttp_ (http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/) --part1_79db5.319304d.396d23ea_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =
Just looking at th= e proposals on-site. It looks absolutely terrific. Can't wait to participa= te. Nice work! (Can you actually believe me--not whining or complaining fo= r a change?)
 
Curmudgeonly yours,
&n= bsp;
Oshun (so much fun to be excited)
 
<= DIV>
In a message dated 7/12/2010 9:56:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, = DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes:
 

Hi, all,=

The SWG is turning five at the end of the month! Because we are = always looking for excuses to celebrate the creativity of our talented m= embership, then we asked everyone for ideas for how we could celebrate this= milestone. You all generated lots of ideas, so we asked for feedback on= favorites, intending to poll the group about what everyone wanted to do= . However, we were able to fit all of the favorite ideas into a single e= vent, so that's what we did. Thank you again to everyone who shared idea= s and feedback on ideas!

The description and guidelines for our b= irthday are up on the site:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthda= y.php

But, in a nutshell, the feedback we received sugge= sted that everyone wanted to do three major things: look back at past ac= complishments with a compilation (like Seven in '07), challenge ourselve= s to create new stories and art (like Akallabeth in August '09), and hon= or existing stories with some lighthearted prizes. Our initial post also= generated lots of cool ideas for challenges and themes, so we also inco= rporated the ability for members to suggest the themes and prizes for th= e event so that those of you who came up with cool ideas for themes and = challenges could toss them at the group and see what magic happens.
<= BR>There are multiple ways to participate in our birthday celebration:
Create a Theme. Create a theme to challenge other SWG membe= rs. For each theme, we will make a compilation of older works, as well a= s accept new works created for the theme. Every SWG member can create on= e theme for our birthday event.

Create for a Theme. = Once we have a list of themes, we encourage everyone to send in older wor= ks for compilation and, if the muse speaks, create new stories, essays, = poems, and artwork.

Create a Token. Tokens are lighthearte= d "awards" created by and given by members. Each member may create one t= oken for other members to give out to their favorite stories and authors= .

Hand out Tokens. Once we have a list of tokens, every SW= G member is invited to award them to the story or author of her or his c= hoice. We will display an icon on the story or author's page that you ch= oose and let the author know that she or he has been honored!

Mor= e details about all of this are available on our birthday page:

<= A title=3Dhttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php href= =3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php">http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org/birthday.php

Please sen= d your ideas for themes and tokens using the forms on that page or email us= at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Ideas for themes= and tokens are due by August 7, but you will likely get a better respon= se if you send them early. As usual, questions are welcome at that addre= ss as well, on the list, or directly to any of the group's moderators.
Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn = Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--part1_79db5.319304d.396d23ea_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3189 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60499 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2010 12:04:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2010 12:04:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f181.google.com) (74.125.82.181) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2010 12:04:28 -0000 X-Received: by wyb39 with SMTP id 39so4504984wyb.12 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:04:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.231.73 with SMTP id k51mr5109151weq.5.1279022666643; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:04:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.85 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:04:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <79db5.319304d.396d23ea@aol.com> References: <79db5.319304d.396d23ea@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:04:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd2ddb0b479eb048b43abd0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Our Fifth Birthday! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=dxvHFNG1c2PmqU6dsb2c_cJUFSLxAeKDo2M52hr498-7vqooyxH3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000e0cd2ddb0b479eb048b43abd0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hooray! We really wanted to make it as inclusive as possible. And you, of course, were instrumental in hammering out the initial ideas! :) Dawn On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:05 PM, wrote: > > > Just looking at the proposals on-site. It looks absolutely terrific. > Can't wait to participate. Nice work! (Can you actually believe me--not > whining or complaining for a change?) > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000e0cd2ddb0b479eb048b43abd0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hooray! We really wanted to make it as inclusive as possible. And you, of c= ourse, were instrumental in hammering out the initial ideas! :)

Dawn=

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:05 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.c= om> wrote:
=C2=A0
Just looking at = the proposals on-site. It looks absolutely terrific. Can't wait to par= ticipate. Nice work! (Can you actually believe me--not whining or complain= ing for a change?)



--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_= loremaster/
htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--000e0cd2ddb0b479eb048b43abd0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3190 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58596 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2010 22:18:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2010 22:18:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f47.google.com) (74.125.82.47) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2010 22:18:57 -0000 X-Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34so27419wwb.28 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:18:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.21.202 with SMTP id k10mr6115771wbb.183.1279664316076; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:18:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:18:36 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215b03e1afddd82048bd910b1 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Birthday Themes, Round One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=4vSw4aMiXyod5uqSrHl_cbDuQl0ZfJECGavS2Dl4In8etwJZYEY0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --002215b03e1afddd82048bd910b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, The SWG will turn five years old in exactly a week! As discussed = in an earlier post, in celebration, we are inviting members to contribute i= deas for themes for which we will be putting together compilations of old a= nd new work. The first round of themes is now available! Please note that i= f you want to send older work for the earlier themes, you should do so as s= oon as possible, as the due dates are now less than a week away. -Most Sin= ister Villain -Who?? A Celebration of Minor and Original Characters -N=C3= =BAmen=C3=B3rean Queens -Clash of the Titans -Do Something That's Never Bee= n Done -Heroes and Antiheroes More information, including descriptions and= due dates for each theme, is available here: http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/birthday.php#current *What Can You Send? *Anything that meets = our site requirements! Every participant is welcome to send as much as s/he= wants; however, we will only guarantee that we will post one of each of th= e following for each participant for each theme: story/essay excerpt (300 w= ords or less), poem, artwork, and ficlet (300 words or less). If we have sp= ace, of course, we will post more. We will compile all of the works into a = themed compilation that we will post on our website. (For those who may not= have been around when we've done this in the past, Seven in '07 is a good = example: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php) We also en= courage you to create new works for the challenges. Also, please remember t= hat there is *no due date* for new works, *only* older works! We will keep = adding new works for all of the themes throughout our birthday event. *Who= Can Send It? *Anyone! You do not need to be an SWG member to participate. = In fact, if you know of any individuals or groups who might be interested i= n participating, please pass the word along. *How to Send It? *You can alw= ays email work to us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, or y= ou can use the handy-dandy form up on our birthday website (which basically= accomplishes the same thing). http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/bir= thday.php#send If you email us, please include your name as you want it to= be spelled on the website, a webpage that you want your name to link to (o= ptional), and an acknowledgment that you've read the document linked above.= We are also still looking for new themes, and I encourage everyone to sen= d their ideas, no matter how wacky or ordinary you think they may be. Also,= we have not received a single idea for a token yet, so please send those t= oo! :) Our birthday website has information on all of the above, and please= do ask if there are any questions. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g/birthday.php Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidh= avens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --002215b03e1afddd82048bd910b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The SWG will turn five years old in exactly a week! As disc= ussed in an earlier post, in celebration, we are inviting members to contri= bute ideas for themes for which we will be putting together compilations of= old and new work. The first round of themes is now available! Please note = that if you want to send older work for the earlier themes, you should do s= o as soon as possible, as the due dates are now less than a week away.
=
-Most Sinister Villain
-Who?? A Celebration of Minor and Original C= haracters
-N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3rean Queens
-Clash of the Titans
-Do= Something That's Never Been Done
-Heroes and Antiheroes

Mor= e information, including descriptions and due dates for each theme, is avai= lable here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#curre= nt

What Can You Send?
Anything that meets our site re= quirements! Every participant is welcome to send as much as s/he wants; how= ever, we will only guarantee that we will post one of each of the following= for each participant for each theme: story/essay excerpt (300 words or les= s), poem, artwork, and ficlet (300 words or less). If we have space, of cou= rse, we will post more. We will compile all of the works into a themed comp= ilation that we will post on our website. (For those who may not have been = around when we've done this in the past, Seven in '07 is a good exa= mple: htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/sevenin07.php)

We also enc= ourage you to create new works for the challenges. Also, please remember th= at there is no due date for new works, only older works! We w= ill keep adding new works for all of the themes throughout our birthday eve= nt.

Who Can Send It?
Anyone! You do not need to be an SWG= member to participate. In fact, if you know of any individuals or groups w= ho might be interested in participating, please pass the word along.
How to Send It?
You can always email work to us at moderator AT= silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, or you can use the handy-dandy form up o= n our birthday website (which basically accomplishes the same thing).
htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#send

If you e= mail us, please include your name as you want it to be spelled on the websi= te, a webpage that you want your name to link to (optional), and an acknowl= edgment that you've read the document linked above.

We are also= still looking for new themes, and I encourage everyone to send their ideas= , no matter how wacky or ordinary you think they may be. Also, we have not = received a single idea for a token yet, so please send those too! :) Our bi= rthday website has information on all of the above, and please do ask if th= ere are any questions.

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Da= wn Felagund
http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--002215b03e1afddd82048bd910b1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3191 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47769 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2010 01:15:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2010 01:15:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f51.google.com) (74.125.82.51) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2010 01:15:47 -0000 X-Received: by wwb22 with SMTP id 22so120390wwb.20 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:15:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.235.106 with SMTP id t84mr6062602weq.46.1279674946549; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:15:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:15:46 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151757415e9df8c7048bdb8a76 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: SSP: "Luthien: A Mere Maiden?" Essay X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xxgOZkUyiv8mg4yp_ePeF97vBpvSPc6Mos05lbV1RyCTeiLggKWx X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00151757415e9df8c7048bdb8a76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I have been reading *The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien *(embarrassingly, for the first time in their entirety), and I discovered the other day a passage about Luthien in which JRRT compares the Beren and Luthien story to that of Frodo and Sam, making the statement that Luthien is a "mere maiden." I found this troubling for a lot of reasons, so I wrote a short piece on it on my weble, The Heretic Loremaster: http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/2010/07/luthien-a-mere-maiden/ We're also having quite some interesting discussions on it, so please do feel free to jump in if you'd like to offer thoughts or opinions. In any case, I hope that some of you enjoy reading it! :) Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00151757415e9df8c7048bdb8a76 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been reading The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien (embarrassingly, f= or the first time in their entirety), and I discovered the other day a pass= age about Luthien in which JRRT compares the Beren and Luthien story to tha= t of Frodo and Sam, making the statement that Luthien is a "mere maide= n."

I found this troubling for a lot of reasons, so I wrote a = short piece on it on my weble, The Heretic Loremaster:

ht= tp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/2010/07/luthien-a-mere-maiden/=

We're also having quite some interesting discussions on it, so= please do feel free to jump in if you'd like to offer thoughts or opin= ions. In any case, I hope that some of you enjoy reading it! :)

Best= regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhave= ns.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00151757415e9df8c7048bdb8a76-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3192 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50895 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2010 13:02:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2010 13:02:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f45.google.com) (74.125.82.45) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2010 13:02:52 -0000 X-Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so3565580wwf.2 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:02:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.146.73 with SMTP id g9mr1824605wbv.188.1279803755972; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:02:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:02:35 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367fad7141ca18048bf988ff X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "Most Sinister Villain" Due Date Soon! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MsWzw7Z6PL5hhqsb21P1BqkpHSgHUGqyuxJ4oDhazorh1ogKlRLv X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016367fad7141ca18048bf988ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I just wanted to send a reminder that the due date for work for the first compilation for our birthday, "Most Sinister Villain," is due on July 24. That's just *two* days away! If you have stories, poems, artwork, or essays that fit this theme, we invite you to send them in for inclusion in this theme. We will be putting together a compilation on a hopefully lovely webpage of all of the work we receive. New entries will be accepted at any time during the birthday event, but I know that some of you have done excellent work in the past with villains, and my comods and I are really hoping some of those pieces will be entered! More details on the whole shebang are up on our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php As always, if there are any questions, please let me know. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016367fad7141ca18048bf988ff Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I just wanted to send a reminder that the due date for= work for the first compilation for our birthday, "Most Sinister Villa= in," is due on July 24. That's just two days away! If you h= ave stories, poems, artwork, or essays that fit this theme, we invite you t= o send them in for inclusion in this theme. We will be putting together a c= ompilation on a hopefully lovely webpage of all of the work we receive.
=
New entries will be accepted at any time during the birthday event, bu= t I know that some of you have done excellent work in the past with villain= s, and my comods and I are really hoping some of those pieces will be enter= ed!

More details on the whole shebang are up on our website:
http://ww= w.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php

As always, if there = are any questions, please let me know.

Dawn

--=
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org
--0016367fad7141ca18048bf988ff-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3193 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82179 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2010 15:19:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2010 15:19:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f42.google.com) (74.125.82.42) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2010 15:19:58 -0000 X-Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so673815wwf.1 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:19:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.236.226 with SMTP id w76mr3687011weq.7.1279898397700; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:19:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:19:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd402c457f2bf048c0f91bd X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Birthday Query X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mpmtLHI4PRIwwoS5zwjQKZuk7gPtC8DG4RiB_vkiWVxRNiv-DLaw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000e0cd402c457f2bf048c0f91bd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Today is the due date for the first theme, and our birthday plans ain't going so well! We've received a scattering of entries and theme ideas from a few people (and you know who you are--thank you so much! :) However, we recognize that we are in the middle of summer for most people--a bad time, with schools out and family vacations--and that we've given very short notice due to our own RL issues. The other mods and I are discussing options over on our forum. But, first, we wanted to make sure that there weren't a dozen people who intend to send in theme/token ideas and stories but just haven't had a chance to do so yet. If you plan on participating, could you reply to this message or drop me a line privately? We want to put together something that will be fun and that people will want to participate in, not force an event at what appears to be a very bad time for many of us. We do have low-maintenance back-up ideas, so our fifth birthday won't go unrecognized, and, if this event doesn't happen, we *will* run it at some other time when we can better give it the attention it deserves, possible for B2MeM11. (Yes, the other mods and I *do* start talking about B2MeM this early! :) Thank you and my best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000e0cd402c457f2bf048c0f91bd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Today is the due date for the first theme, and our bir= thday plans ain't going so well! We've received a scattering of ent= ries and theme ideas from a few people (and you know who you are--thank you= so much! :) However, we recognize that we are in the middle of summer for = most people--a bad time, with schools out and family vacations--and that we= 've given very short notice due to our own RL issues.

The other= mods and I are discussing options over on our forum. But, first, we wanted= to make sure that there weren't a dozen people who intend to send in t= heme/token ideas and stories but just haven't had a chance to do so yet= . If you plan on participating, could you reply to this message or drop me = a line privately? We want to put together something that will be fun and th= at people will want to participate in, not force an event at what appears t= o be a very bad time for many of us.

We do have low-maintenance bac= k-up ideas, so our fifth birthday won't go unrecognized, and, if this e= vent doesn't happen, we will run it at some other time when we c= an better give it the attention it deserves, possible for B2MeM11. (Yes, th= e other mods and I do start talking about B2MeM this early! :)
<= br>Thank you and my best regards to all,

Dawn

-= -
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org
--000e0cd402c457f2bf048c0f91bd-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3194 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67098 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2010 17:18:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2010 17:18:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f45.google.com) (74.125.82.45) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2010 17:18:08 -0000 X-Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so6012577wwf.26 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:17:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.176.83 with SMTP id a61mr5136740wem.47.1279991877559; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:17:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 13:17:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e65aeed62d6555048c2555b7 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Birthday Deadlines Extended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=4wN8e-bQD5Rl8yfDWDYL_h7SB0f9TCa4tyBSIbES_qYDtdbHDRdS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e65aeed62d6555048c2555b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Thanks to everyone who emailed or posted on LJ yesterday expressing support for the birthday event. We've decided to go ahead with it, since there is interest, but we've extended the deadline for sending work for themes two weeks to give everyone more time. So our birthday won't happen exactly on our birthday, but it will mean that we all have time to put together something that really represents the range and talent of this group--definitely worth the wait! :) The deadline for submitting ideas for themes and tokens will remain the same. This deadline is August 7, and you can send ideas for themes and tokens on the birthday page-- http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php --or email me or the mods directly with your ideas. Work for the first theme will also be due* August 7, and the first theme will be posted on August 10. We might rearrange the schedule a bit depending on the number of themes we receive, and I will update the schedule in the next few days, but this will definitely be the start date. * Please remember that due dates apply only to *older work* that you are sending in for the compilation! If you are creating something new for one of the themes--"new" meaning that it has not been posted publicly anywhere before--you can send it in at any time during the birthday event, and we will add it to the birthday site. We are doing this so that those of you to inspired to create for the earlier themes are not punished by having less time to work than those working on the later themes. I will be working to get the site updated today with the new information, along with some other admin stuff, so I will probably take a bit longer than I would like to acknowledge receipt of themes, tokens, and work sent in yesterday. If you sent something yesterday and don't hear from me by Tuesday, please let me know! Many, many thanks to those of you who sent in things yesterday! :) As always, please let me know if there are any questions. I hope that everyone has a lovely weekend! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e65aeed62d6555048c2555b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Thanks to everyone who emailed or posted on LJ yesterd= ay expressing support for the birthday event. We've decided to go ahead= with it, since there is interest, but we've extended the deadline for = sending work for themes two weeks to give everyone more time. So our birthd= ay won't happen exactly on our birthday, but it will mean that we all h= ave time to put together something that really represents the range and tal= ent of this group--definitely worth the wait! :)

The deadline for s= ubmitting ideas for themes and tokens will remain the same. This deadline i= s August 7, and you can send ideas for themes and tokens on the birthday pa= ge--

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php

--or ema= il me or the mods directly with your ideas.

Work for the first theme= will also be due* August 7, and the first theme will be posted on August 1= 0. We might rearrange the schedule a bit depending on the number of themes = we receive, and I will update the schedule in the next few days, but this w= ill definitely be the start date.

* Please remember that due dates = apply only to older work that you are sending in for the compilation= ! If you are creating something new for one of the themes--"new" = meaning that it has not been posted publicly anywhere before--you can send = it in at any time during the birthday event, and we will add it to the birt= hday site. We are doing this so that those of you to inspired to create for= the earlier themes are not punished by having less time to work than those= working on the later themes.

I will be working to get the site upd= ated today with the new information, along with some other admin stuff, so = I will probably take a bit longer than I would like to acknowledge receipt = of themes, tokens, and work sent in yesterday. If you sent something yester= day and don't hear from me by Tuesday, please let me know! Many, many t= hanks to those of you who sent in things yesterday! :)

As always, p= lease let me know if there are any questions. I hope that everyone has a lo= vely weekend! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fela= gund
http://them= idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e65aeed62d6555048c2555b7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3195 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77303 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2010 13:49:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2010 13:49:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f173.google.com) (74.125.82.173) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2010 13:49:22 -0000 X-Received: by mail-wy0-f173.google.com with SMTP id 11so3102648wyi.18 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 06:49:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.161.71 with SMTP id v49mr2445569wek.94.1280238177505; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 06:42:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 06:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:42:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636416b97cc5027048c5eadaa X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Happy Birthday! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=50E9g5e2DPwqrVjBBJh0jKc6e0FsgQQsyFTGkw9-mwuKP-7Y8bvc X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636416b97cc5027048c5eadaa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Today is our fifth anniversary, so a very happy birthday, SWG! Many, many thanks to all of you, who are the reason that we have made it to five years. The enthusiasm and resourcefulness of this group never ceases to amaze me. Five years ago, I had no notion of what the group would become. Thank you to all of our writers, artists, and members who made it happen! I will be posting later with an updated lists of themes and tokens for our birthday event. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636416b97cc5027048c5eadaa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today is our fifth anniversary, so a very happy birthday, SWG!

Many,= many thanks to all of you, who are the reason that we have made it to five= years. The enthusiasm and resourcefulness of this group never ceases to am= aze me. Five years ago, I had no notion of what the group would become. Tha= nk you to all of our writers, artists, and members who made it happen!
=
I will be posting later with an updated lists of themes and tokens for = our birthday event.

Best regards,

Dawn

-= -
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org
--001636416b97cc5027048c5eadaa-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3196 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62097 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2010 02:05:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2010 02:05:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f47.google.com) (209.85.215.47) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2010 02:05:42 -0000 X-Received: by ewy7 with SMTP id 7so1951570ewy.34 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:05:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.213.17.196 with SMTP id t4mr1870703eba.64.1280282720716; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:05:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.213.27.20 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:05:20 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c11d2c7c6c6048c690ca9 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Birthday Update: New Themes and Tokens X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xoHdTNBHAjjyMy2TbICa3rdLSr0BHybVL9A5BAW3kxWGNLdg5nxN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015174c11d2c7c6c6048c690ca9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone, Well, tonight I sat down and got my act together. Sort of. ;= ) At least, I organized the many ideas for themes and tokens, birthday subm= issions, and token nominations that everyone has been so generously sending= . I hope that there is a glimmer of a chance that I might be caught up with= everything that I need to do by tomorrow. We have several *new* themes, h= owever, as well as a growing list of tokens that you can award to the story= or author you think most deserving. *New Themes * *Perfect Matches.* Whe= ther humorous or serious, this theme is for cross-overs of all sorts. *Fiv= e Things.* Any variation of the "Five things . . ." or "Five times . . ." c= hallenge would be acceptable. Might be "Five People Who Kissed Maedhros," o= r "Five Things F=C3=ABanor Invented," or even the format: "Five Things Turi= n Regretted and One He Did Not." That last one might be a stretch. Could it= be possible to narrow regrettable acts committed by Turin to only five? *= Minstrelsy and Music.* Could be on one of the "professionals" (Maglor, Daer= on, Ecthelion or Lindir)--or the Ainulindale--or on almost anyone singing. = *Cuivi=C3=A9nen.* Stories, poetry, and artwork about or set in Cuivi=C3=A9= nen. *Tokens * *Smells Like Teen Spirit.* A story that features teens in th= eir most adolescent behaviour. *Best Kiss.* Soul meets soul on lovers' lip= s. ~Percy Bysshe Shelley, Prometheus Unbound You know you want to nominate = one. Even if you don't find one you love (and you will, of course, you will= ), imagine the fun you will have looking. All kisses welcome to be nominate= d for this category=E2=80=94Beren and L=C3=BAthien, F=C3=ABanor and Nerdane= l, Fingon and Maedhros, etc., etc., etc. Celebrate your favorite kisses of = The Silmarillion that Tolkien never got around to describing. *Melian's Gi= rdle.* An award for an exceptional portrayal and development of a female ca= non character or OFC in an adult rated romantic or erotic story. *Il=C3=BA= vdiacritics.* An award to honor references and periodicals that you find pa= rticularly helpful or illuminating. *The Splutter.* For writing and author= s that create spray effects on computer monitors and laptop screens. *Funn= iest Feanorians!* For the most amusing stories and artwork featuring Feanor= and his descendants. *Older Themes *We are still accepting old and new s= tories, ficlets, poems, and artwork for the older themes as well! *Most Si= nister Villain.* This theme is for writing and art where the baddie really = makes one's skin crawl. Not one for likeable villains but for utterly horri= d ones. *Who?? A Celebration of Minor and Original Characters.* Writing an= d artwork entered for this theme focuses on minor canon characters or origi= nal characters. *N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3rean Queens.* Writing and artwork that fo= cuses on the Queens of N=C3=BAmenor. *Clash of the Titans.* Powerful chara= cters clash in conflicts of all sorts. *Do Something That's Never Been Don= e.* Writing or artwork about doing the seemingly impossible. Can be as big = as defeating Sauron or as small as any given character overcoming a persona= l impossibility. *Heroes and Antiheroes.* Writing and artwork about charac= ters who exhibit the traits of heroes but are also afflicted with flaws. We= are still accepting ideas for new themes and tokens until August 7th, so p= lease send in your ideas! You can do that--as well as send work for inclusi= on in the theme compilations or choose a member or story to receive a token= --on the birthday page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.p= hp Thank you so very much to everyone who has contributed ideas, sent work= , or honored their fellow SWGers with tokens! :) Best regards, Dawn -- = ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015174c11d2c7c6c6048c690ca9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Well, tonight I sat down and got my act together. Sort= of. ;) At least, I organized the many ideas for themes and tokens, birthda= y submissions, and token nominations that everyone has been so generously s= ending. I hope that there is a glimmer of a chance that I might be caught u= p with everything that I need to do by tomorrow.

We have several new themes, however, as well as a growing list of tokens that you can = award to the story or author you think most deserving.

New The= mes

Perfect Matches. Whether humorous or ser= ious, this theme is for cross-overs of all sorts.

Five Thi= ngs. Any variation of the "Five things . . ." or "= Five times . . ." challenge would be acceptable. Might be "Five = People Who Kissed Maedhros," or "Five Things F=C3=ABanor Invented= ," or even the format: "Five Things Turin Regretted and One He D= id Not." That last one might be a stretch. Could it be possible to na= rrow regrettable acts committed by Turin to only five?

Min= strelsy and Music. Could be on one of the "professionals"= ; (Maglor, Daeron, Ecthelion or Lindir)--or the Ainulindale--or on almost a= nyone singing.

Cuivi=C3=A9nen. Stories, poetry, an= d artwork about or set in Cuivi=C3=A9nen.

Tokens

Smells Like Teen Spirit. A story that features teens in their most ado= lescent behaviour.

Best Kiss. Soul meets soul on lovers'= lips.
~Percy Bysshe Shelley, Prometheus Unbound
You know you want to= nominate one. Even if you don't find one you love (and you will, of co= urse, you will), imagine the fun you will have looking. All kisses welcome = to be nominated for this category=E2=80=94Beren and L=C3=BAthien, F=C3=ABan= or and Nerdanel, Fingon and Maedhros, etc., etc., etc. Celebrate your favor= ite kisses of The Silmarillion that Tolkien never got around to describing.=

Melian's Girdle. An award for an exceptional portrayal = and development of a female canon character or OFC in an adult rated romant= ic or erotic story.

Il=C3=BAvdiacritics. An award to honor re= ferences and periodicals that you find particularly helpful or illuminating= .

The Splutter. For writing and authors that create spray ef= fects on computer monitors and laptop screens.

Funniest Feanorian= s! For the most amusing stories and artwork featuring Feanor and his de= scendants.

Older Themes

We are still accepting= old and new stories, ficlets, poems, and artwork for the older themes as w= ell!

Most Sinister Villain. This theme is for writin= g and art where the baddie really makes one's skin crawl. Not one for = likeable villains but for utterly horrid ones.

Who?? A Cel= ebration of Minor and Original Characters. Writing and artwork ent= ered for this theme focuses on minor canon characters or original character= s.

N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3rean Queens. Writing and artwor= k that focuses on the Queens of N=C3=BAmenor.

Clash of the = Titans. Powerful characters clash in conflicts of all sorts.

=

Do Something That's Never Been Done. Writing or ar= twork about doing the seemingly impossible. Can be as big as defeating Sau= ron or as small as any given character overcoming a personal impossibility= .

Heroes and Antiheroes. Writing and artwork about= characters who exhibit the traits of heroes but are also afflicted with fl= aws.

We are still accepting ideas for new themes and tokens until August= 7th, so please send in your ideas! You can do that--as well as send work f= or inclusion in the theme compilations or choose a member or story to recei= ve a token--on the birthday page:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/bir= thday.php

Thank you so very much to everyone who has contributed= ideas, sent work, or honored their fellow SWGers with tokens! :)

B= est regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund=
http://themidha= vens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015174c11d2c7c6c6048c690ca9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3197 Return-Path: X-Sender: telron_dragon@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86177 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2010 05:39:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2010 05:39:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2010 05:39:00 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2010 05:34:33 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jul 2010 05:34:33 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:34:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "Telron" Subject: Re: Happy Birthday! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=356670492; y=pUs-N45bLxchPaARg7PSQ3aqwd-W52pOqBQODeCEv0Eor6RRuGHavg X-Yahoo-Profile: telron_dragon Happy birthday to everyone and first of all of course - to our dear loremas= ter, who began it all! @>- @>- @>- - flowers for you, Dawn :D --- In Silm= arillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrot= e: > > Today is our fifth anniversary, so a very happy birthday, SWG! > > = Many, many thanks to all of you, who are the reason that we have made it to= > five years. The enthusiasm and resourcefulness of this group never cease= s to > amaze me. Five years ago, I had no notion of what the group would be= come. > Thank you to all of our writers, artists, and members who made it h= appen! > > I will be posting later with an updated lists of themes and tok= ens for our > birthday event. > > Best regards, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~= > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3198 Return-Path: X-Sender: silalilte@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25711 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2010 11:47:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2010 11:47:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-bw0-f49.google.com) (209.85.214.49) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2010 11:47:46 -0000 X-Received: by bwz15 with SMTP id 15so4859300bwz.36 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:47:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.204.140.219 with SMTP id j27mr7819436bku.153.1280317664496; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:47:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.204.82.98 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:47:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:47:44 +0200 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c4298978bd9048c712fc5 From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Karolina_W=EAgrzyn?= Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Happy Birthday! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=DQaFt8_afnJ7auMAkNEZmnKV-AJVIh1KHZg8BbA_OyZkQms0NTo X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle --0015174c4298978bd9048c712fc5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah Happy Birthday to SWG and all the Silmarillion lovers! :D 2010/7/28 T= elron > > > Happy birthday to everyone and first= of all of course - to our dear > loremaster, who began it all! > @>- @>- @= >- - flowers for you, Dawn :D > > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogr= oups.com, > Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > > Today is our fifth anniversary, so a very happ= y birthday, SWG! > > > > Many, many thanks to all of you, who are the reaso= n that we have made it > to > > five years. The enthusiasm and resourcefuln= ess of this group never ceases > to > > amaze me. Five years ago, I had no = notion of what the group would become. > > Thank you to all of our writers,= artists, and members who made it happen! > > > > I will be posting later w= ith an updated lists of themes and tokens for > our > > birthday event. > >= > > Best regards, > > > > Dawn > > > > -- > > ~oOo~ > > Dawn Felagund > > = http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > > http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org > > > > > -- Karolina W=EAgrzyn www.sirielle.com --0015174c4298978bd9048c712fc5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah Happy Birthday to SWG and all the Silmarillion lovers! :D

2010/7/28 Telron <telron_dragon@yahoo.com>
 
<= p>Happy birthday to everyone and first of all of course - to our dear lorem= aster, who began it all!
@>- @>- @>- - flowers for you, Dawn := D



--- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo= groups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote:
>
= > Today is our fifth anniversary, so a very happy birthday, SWG!
>= ;
> Many, many thanks to all of you, who are the reason that we hav= e made it to
> five years. The enthusiasm and resourcefulness of thi= s group never ceases to
> amaze me. Five years ago, I had no notion = of what the group would become.
> Thank you to all of our writers, a= rtists, and members who made it happen!
>
> I will be postin= g later with an updated lists of themes and tokens for our
> birthda= y event.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dawn
> =
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidha= vens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g
>




--
Karolina W=EAgrzyn
www.sirielle.com
--0015174c4298978bd9048c712fc5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3199 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23915 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2010 12:41:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2010 12:41:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f47.google.com) (74.125.82.47) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2010 12:41:29 -0000 X-Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34so2576480wwb.4 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:40:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.138.134 with SMTP id a6mr10643460wbu.68.1280320830984; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:40:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:40:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:40:30 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f44c0254526c048c71ecc1 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Happy Birthday! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=WQwOUI94G2Kz67zF16GkGTPQQUJl0VsVMM9iyCWPy4ty6y8D3CWC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001485f44c0254526c048c71ecc1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thank you, Telron and Sirielle! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001485f44c0254526c048c71ecc1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Telron and Sirielle! :)

Dawn

--
= ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org<= /a>
--001485f44c0254526c048c71ecc1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3200 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 261 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2010 02:30:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2010 02:30:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f181.google.com) (74.125.82.181) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2010 02:30:15 -0000 X-Received: by wyb36 with SMTP id 36so2045879wyb.12 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:30:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.177.81 with SMTP id c59mr2466255wem.8.1280543414347; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:30:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:30:14 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163683369854e72c048ca5bf89 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Updated Themes and Tokens for Birthday X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=vtuddyqwCyxLOF24g1raprNyVS8kOb6Qpaw0KI8xOctvvReVjTqM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163683369854e72c048ca5bf89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone, In the past few days, we've received several new themes and = tokens for our birthday celebration that I wanted everyone to be aware of. = Fyi, I generally update the website with new themes and tokens within a day= of receiving them. The updated list is both on the birthday page and the s= idebar that appears on every page. I'll post updates here and on LJ once or= twice per week only to keep from spamming the list. :) Here's what we hav= e for new themes:* Through the Ages.* Stories or artwork featuring charact= ers that belong in more than one age of Arda such as Galadriel or Elrond an= d who influence more than one age of history.* The Songfic That Wasn't.* T= his theme is for 'songfic' in which you use a line from a song *once* in yo= ur story (it may be the title, in the dialogue, in the description - wherev= er you like). You are expected to credit the original song or poem, of cour= se, but you may not quote the entire song in your story. And new tokens: = *The Box of Tissues.* To honor stories that manage to be even sadder than t= he original. *Straight to the Heart.* This token can be given to any story= or poem that affected the reader in any way possible. Maybe it made you st= art writing, it gave you thought about something, or just simply touched yo= u deeply. I will attach a complete list of current themes and tokens at th= e end of this message. Remember, you can still suggest a theme, suggest a = token, send in work for an existing theme, *and* recommend a story or autho= r for one of our existing tokens. That's lots of options! :) More details o= n all of the above and forms to send in your suggestions and entries can be= found on our birthday page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birth= day.php And please do contact me or one of the other mods if you have any = questions or need any help. Many, many thanks to everyone who has sent in s= tuff so far! All the best, Dawn *Current Themes *-Most Sinister Villain = -Who?? A Celebration of Minor and Original Characters -N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3rean= Queens -Clash of the Titans -Do Something That's Never Been Done -Heroes a= nd Antiheroes -Perfect Matches -Five Things -Minstrelsy and Music -Cuivi=C3= =A9nen -Through the Ages -The SongFic That Wasn't For complete description= s, please see the birthday page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/bi= rthday.php#current *Current Tokens *-Smells Like Teen Spirit -Best Kiss -M= elian's Girdle -Il=C3=BAvdiacritics -The Splutter -Funniest Feanorians! -Th= e Box of Tissues -Straight to the Heart For complete descriptions, please = see the birthday page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php= #tokens -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster= / http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163683369854e72c048ca5bf89 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

In the past few days, we've received several new t= hemes and tokens for our birthday celebration that I wanted everyone to be = aware of. Fyi, I generally update the website with new themes and tokens wi= thin a day of receiving them. The updated list is both on the birthday page= and the sidebar that appears on every page. I'll post updates here and= on LJ once or twice per week only to keep from spamming the list. :)
<= br>Here's what we have for new themes:

Through the Ages.= Stories or artwork featuring characters that belong in more than= one age of Arda such as Galadriel or Elrond and who influence more than o= ne age of history.

The Songfic That Wasn't. Thi= s theme is for 'songfic' in which you use a line from a song on= ce in your story (it may be the title, in the dialogue, in the descri= ption - wherever you like). You are expected to credit the original song o= r poem, of course, but you may not quote the entire song in your story.
And new tokens:

The Box of Tissues. To honor s= tories that manage to be even sadder than the original.

Stra= ight to the Heart. This token can be given to any story or poem t= hat affected the reader in any way possible. Maybe it made you start writi= ng, it gave you thought about something, or just simply touched you deeply= .

I will attach a complete list of current themes and tokens at the = end of this message.

Remember, you can still suggest a theme, sugges= t a token, send in work for an existing theme, and recommend a story= or author for one of our existing tokens. That's lots of options! :) M= ore details on all of the above and forms to send in your suggestions and e= ntries can be found on our birthday page:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org/birthday.php

And please do contact me or one of the other m= ods if you have any questions or need any help. Many, many thanks to everyo= ne who has sent in stuff so far!

All the best,

Dawn

<= b>Current Themes
-Most Sinister Villain
-Who?? A Celebration of = Minor and Original Characters
-N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3rean Queens
-Clash o= f the Titans
-Do Something That's Never Been Done
-Heroes and A= ntiheroes
-Perfect Matches
-Five Things
-Minstrelsy and Music -Cuivi=C3=A9nen
-Through the Ages
-The SongFic That Wasn't
For complete descriptions, please see the birthday page: http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#current

Current Token= s
-Smells Like Teen Spirit
-Best Kiss
-Melian's Girdle -Il=C3=BAvdiacritics
-The Splutter
-Funniest Feanorians!
-Th= e Box of Tissues
-Straight to the Heart

For complete description= s, please see the birthday page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birth= day.php#tokens

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lo= remaster/
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00163683369854e72c048ca5bf89-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3201 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12111 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2010 02:33:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2010 02:33:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f45.google.com) (74.125.82.45) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2010 02:33:55 -0000 X-Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so2054021wwf.26 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:33:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.11.201 with SMTP id 51mr323998wex.72.1280543633781; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:33:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:33:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:33:53 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c7bd1693983048ca5cc6c From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: Updated Themes and Tokens for Birthday X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=18cg6uTlVsu3V6-kLz0uYcsu4pyWfbBeEH-ijmXAW5bD-ptF7NY6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364c7bd1693983048ca5cc6c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 And one more token, received just as I clicked SEND! *Not That There's Anything Wrong with That.* The most unlikely slash pairing that actually *works.* That's all for tonight! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364c7bd1693983048ca5cc6c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 And one more token, received just as I clicked SEND!

Not That There's Anything Wrong with That. The most unlikely slash pairing that actually works.

That's all for tonight! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364c7bd1693983048ca5cc6c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3202 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87131 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2010 18:39:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2010 18:39:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f174.google.com) (74.125.82.174) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2010 18:39:48 -0000 X-Received: by wyb39 with SMTP id 39so2774616wyb.33 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:38:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.1.77 with SMTP id 55mr3069242wec.72.1280601509491; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:38:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:38:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c7a4d12753f048cb3464d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Extra Tokens Up for Adoption! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=JFFQhSUdIds_w1zbgOf2QYRSD8MMHYySQOVuQkC-usnn_NLrOAQ9 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364c7a4d12753f048cb3464d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, A few members have created multiple ideas for tokens for our birthday celebration. *Technically*, the rules limit everyone to one, but we don't want to put a damper on creativity. So we've been allowing extra tokens to be "adopted" by members who don't plan to contribute tokens of their own. Currently, I have a handful of extra tokens that need a home. *cue whimpering and puppy-dog eyes* If you don't plan on contributing a token of your own but would like to adopt a token, please let me know! This requires no special effort from you beyond letting me know that you're interested. If you have extra ideas for tokens or themes, it is fully permissible to beg and plead for others to enter them on your behalf. ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364c7a4d12753f048cb3464d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

A few members have created multiple ideas for tokens f= or our birthday celebration. Technically, the rules limit everyone t= o one, but we don't want to put a damper on creativity. So we've be= en allowing extra tokens to be "adopted" by members who don't= plan to contribute tokens of their own. Currently, I have a handful of ext= ra tokens that need a home. *cue whimpering and puppy-dog eyes* If you don&= #39;t plan on contributing a token of your own but would like to adopt a to= ken, please let me know! This requires no special effort from you beyond le= tting me know that you're interested.

If you have extra ideas f= or tokens or themes, it is fully permissible to beg and plead for others to= enter them on your behalf. ;)

Dawn

--
~oOo= ~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org=
--0016364c7a4d12753f048cb3464d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3203 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74496 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2010 02:00:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2010 02:00:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f47.google.com) (74.125.82.47) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Aug 2010 02:00:18 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ww0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 34so705955wwb.16 for ; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 19:00:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.142.132 with SMTP id q4mr5615874wbu.90.1280800817868; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 19:00:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 19:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 22:00:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e659f4f2c6f376048ce1ad1e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: August 2010 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=imH3dqMJlSeEFsJokaA_Fww05w3_x6eApm2uY-ZDSumm05qST1Hr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e659f4f2c6f376048ce1ad1e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, The SWG's August newsletter is posted over on our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/august2010.php Among the news about the group, the theme schedule for our birthday event has been posted. (I haven't updated the birthday page or sidebar yet--those are on the agenda for tomorrow!) In the midst of the birthday excitement, it is also Akallabeth in August, our annual tradition of spotlighting the Second Age stories on the archive. A complete list of Second Age stories can be found in the newsletter. We also encourage our authors to write and share a piece of Second Age writing during the month of August. This month's newsletter also introduces a new section for updates on the archive. This section includes a list of all new, ongoing, and completed work posted on the archive. We hope it will help our members and visitors find stories they might have missed on the Most Recent list! Because it is Akallabeth in August, this month's character biography focuses on Amandil and was written by Russandol. Russandol's excellent essay delves deep into the texts to trace Amandil's history both as a character and in Tolkien's writings. She also poses several intriguing questions that might inspire some Second Age writing for Akallabeth in August! Also as part of the regular features, Pandemonium gives us another comic about the adorably funny Lil' Gothmog. In this month's comic, Gothmog receives an unwelcome introduction to grown-up suppertime fare. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/august2010.php I hope everyone enjoys the newsletter! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e659f4f2c6f376048ce1ad1e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

The SWG's August newsletter is posted over on our = website:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/august2010.php

Among the news about the group, the theme schedule for our birthd= ay event has been posted. (I haven't updated the birthday page or sideb= ar yet--those are on the agenda for tomorrow!) In the midst of the birthday= excitement, it is also Akallabeth in August, our annual tradition of spotl= ighting the Second Age stories on the archive. A complete list of Second Ag= e stories can be found in the newsletter. We also encourage our authors to = write and share a piece of Second Age writing during the month of August.
This month's newsletter also introduces a new section for update= s on the archive. This section includes a list of all new, ongoing, and com= pleted work posted on the archive. We hope it will help our members and vis= itors find stories they might have missed on the Most Recent list!

= Because it is Akallabeth in August, this month's character biography fo= cuses on Amandil and was written by Russandol. Russandol's excellent es= say delves deep into the texts to trace Amandil's history both as a cha= racter and in Tolkien's writings. She also poses several intriguing que= stions that might inspire some Second Age writing for Akallabeth in August!=

Also as part of the regular features, Pandemonium gives us another= comic about the adorably funny Lil' Gothmog. In this month's comic= , Gothmog receives an unwelcome introduction to grown-up suppertime fare.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/august2010.php

= I hope everyone enjoys the newsletter! :)

Dawn

= --
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--0016e659f4f2c6f376048ce1ad1e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3204 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23734 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2010 15:34:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2010 15:34:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f182.google.com) (74.125.82.182) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Aug 2010 15:34:45 -0000 X-Received: by wyj26 with SMTP id 26so6946681wyj.13 for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 08:34:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.127.149 with SMTP id g21mr7923424wbs.218.1280936083944; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 08:34:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 08:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:34:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016365eebd04377ab048d012c45 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Birthday Updates X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=sk3VR-H8J5YqCL3OxoRVcdu_XlMecE1B90bg6S3wfAMKCUpg6AdA X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016365eebd04377ab048d012c45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone, As I noted when I announced the newsletter the other day, th= e schedule with due dates and posting dates for our birthday compilation ha= s been posted. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#curren= t Please note that there has been some rearrangement. The "Most Sinister V= illain" theme, which was originally first on the list, has been moved back.= We've gotten some incredible work sent in for that theme, but it is also i= ncredibly *dark* and wasn't really the best choice for kicking off a birthd= ay celebration! :) The first theme on the schedule is now "Who? A Celebrati= on of Minor and Original Characters." If you have older pieces that you'd l= ike to send in for this theme--meaning that they have been posted publicly = somewhere before--the due date for this theme is August 7. That's only thre= e days away, so please send them in now! If you are creating something new= for one of the themes, there is no due date. (Well, we'd like to have them= some time during the birthday event, but I'd be willing to be flexible eve= n on that point!) We will add your new work when you send it and include an= announcement about it when we post the next compilation. We are also clos= ing in quickly on the due date to send in ideas for themes and tokens. That= due date is also August 7. We are still accepting ideas, so please do send= them, if you have them! Speaking of tokens, we have added three new ones = to the site: Velvet Darkness. A token to honor those writers who write dar= k-themed stories, or characters who live through times of pain, grief and c= ruelty. The Power and the Passion. A token for First Age stories that illu= minate the lives of many wonderful and tragic characters: Their despair and= hope, their loves and hates, the moments of laughter and tears. The Stars= of Westernesse. A token awarded to those authors who bring the people and = events of N=C3=BAmenor to life. Remember, every one of you can select an a= uthor or a specific story to award a token to! It's a great way to honor th= e people and the stories that have inspired you over the years. More infor= mation on our birthday, as well as forms for sending in ideas for themes an= d tokens, selections for tokens, and work for the compilation can be found = on our birthday page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php= If there are any questions, please don't hesitate to ask! :) As a final = note, in accordance with Murphy's law, I currently have no home Internet. I= t is supposed (supposed!) to be fixed on Friday; in the meantime, I will be= bouncing around between libraries and cafes with wi-fi to get done what I = need to do for my paid job. However, this means that I won't be as availabl= e as usual and will likely be even slower in responding to emails than I ha= ve been. If anyone has any urgent questions or problems, please email the m= oderator address at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. A few of= us watch this email, so this is the best route to go right now if you need= immediate assistance. Thanks and take care, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagun= d http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org --0016365eebd04377ab048d012c45 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

As I noted when I announced the newsletter the other d= ay, the schedule with due dates and posting dates for our birthday compilat= ion has been posted.

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.= php#current

Please note that there has been some rearrangement.= The "Most Sinister Villain" theme, which was originally first on= the list, has been moved back. We've gotten some incredible work sent = in for that theme, but it is also incredibly *dark* and wasn't really t= he best choice for kicking off a birthday celebration! :) The first theme o= n the schedule is now "Who? A Celebration of Minor and Original Charac= ters." If you have older pieces that you'd like to send in for thi= s theme--meaning that they have been posted publicly somewhere before--the = due date for this theme is August 7. That's only three days away, so pl= ease send them in now!

If you are creating something new for one of= the themes, there is no due date. (Well, we'd like to have them some t= ime during the birthday event, but I'd be willing to be flexible even o= n that point!) We will add your new work when you send it and include an an= nouncement about it when we post the next compilation.

We are also = closing in quickly on the due date to send in ideas for themes and tokens. = That due date is also August 7. We are still accepting ideas, so please do = send them, if you have them!

Speaking of tokens, we have added three= new ones to the site:

Velvet Darkness. A token to honor those writ= ers who write dark-themed stories, or characters who live through times of = pain, grief and cruelty.

The Power and the Passion. A token for Firs= t Age stories that illuminate the lives of many wonderful and tragic charac= ters: Their despair and hope, their loves and hates, the moments of laughte= r and tears.

The Stars of Westernesse. A token awarded to those aut= hors who bring the people and events of N=C3=BAmenor to life.

Rememb= er, every one of you can select an author or a specific story to award a to= ken to! It's a great way to honor the people and the stories that have = inspired you over the years.

More information on our birthday, as w= ell as forms for sending in ideas for themes and tokens, selections for tok= ens, and work for the compilation can be found on our birthday page:
http://ww= w.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php

If there are any qu= estions, please don't hesitate to ask! :)

As a final note, in ac= cordance with Murphy's law, I currently have no home Internet. It is su= pposed (supposed!) to be fixed on Friday; in the meantime, I will be bounci= ng around between libraries and cafes with wi-fi to get done what I need to= do for my paid job. However, this means that I won't be as available a= s usual and will likely be even slower in responding to emails than I have = been. If anyone has any urgent questions or problems, please email the mode= rator address at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. A few of us= watch this email, so this is the best route to go right now if you need im= mediate assistance.

Thanks and take care,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org
--0016365eebd04377ab048d012c45-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3205 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99906 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2010 02:24:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Aug 2010 02:24:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f177.google.com) (74.125.82.177) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Aug 2010 02:24:13 -0000 X-Received: by wyf19 with SMTP id 19so5570336wyf.36 for ; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 19:24:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.142.136 with SMTP id q8mr11091363wbu.95.1281147852184; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 19:24:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 22:24:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e659f6fea25c7c048d327a4b From: Dawn Felagund Subject: One Day Left to Submit Tokens and Themes! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=HO4ceQJwqCYQ-zvoPEJ4JDqIJlYc9edMDUBzRynedP3JUfRFY5Bi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e659f6fea25c7c048d327a4b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Just a gentle reminder that today, August 7, is the last day to submit ideas for themes and tokens for our birthday event. You will still be able to send in work and award tokens to authors and stories. (If you're wondering what the heck I'm talking about, I'll include a brief explanation at the bottom of the email but will spare the rest of you who have now heard me say the same thing a dozen different ways. :) We've gotten some excellent new themes and tokens that haven't been updated on the site yet due to the group owner (*ahem*) being busy with various jazz related to school, her job, and her chickens. However, I have mentally set aside tomorrow morning for catching up, so Eru willing and the creek don't rise, I should actually have everything up on the site and emails sent out to those of you who are waiting for them. If you want to send in an idea for a theme or token, please do so soon! In about a day, I will remove that section of the site. Forms for sending ideas for themes and tokens are on the birthday page: Themes: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#theme Tokens: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#token Or you can email me/the moderators directly with your ideas. Today is also the due date for *older work* that you would like included in the "Who? A Celebration of Minor and Original Characters" compilation. If you have an older story, essay, poem, or piece of artwork that you'd like included, please send it today or contact me. *New* work created for this theme is welcome at any time--send it along whenever you're finished and happy with it, and we will add it. Thanks to everyone who has sent in ideas, work for the compilation, and awards for tokens so far! :) Dawn *What the Heck I'm Talking About **Themes.* Each person may send in one idea for a theme. Once you've designed a theme, we will announce it to your fellow SWGers, who will send in their writing and artwork that they think fits the theme. We will then collect it in a compilation. *Tokens.* Each person may send in one idea for a token. Tokens are small prizes that are given to stories and authors. Once you create a token, your fellow SWGers can award it to the story or author they think most deserving. We don't count votes or anything like that--it's just an opportunity to show an author that you appreciate her or his work. Authors or stories given tokens receive an icon to display on the story notes or in their profile. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e659f6fea25c7c048d327a4b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Just a gentle reminder that today, August 7, is the la= st day to submit ideas for themes and tokens for our birthday event. You wi= ll still be able to send in work and award tokens to authors and stories. (= If you're wondering what the heck I'm talking about, I'll inclu= de a brief explanation at the bottom of the email but will spare the rest o= f you who have now heard me say the same thing a dozen different ways. :)
We've gotten some excellent new themes and tokens that haven'= ;t been updated on the site yet due to the group owner (*ahem*) being busy = with various jazz related to school, her job, and her chickens. However, I = have mentally set aside tomorrow morning for catching up, so Eru willing an= d the creek don't rise, I should actually have everything up on the sit= e and emails sent out to those of you who are waiting for them.

If = you want to send in an idea for a theme or token, please do so soon! In abo= ut a day, I will remove that section of the site. Forms for sending ideas f= or themes and tokens are on the birthday page:

Themes: http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#theme
Tokens: http://www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org/birthday.php#token

Or you can email me/the mo= derators directly with your ideas.

Today is also the due date for older work that you would like included in the "Who? A Celebratio= n of Minor and Original Characters" compilation. If you have an older = story, essay, poem, or piece of artwork that you'd like included, pleas= e send it today or contact me. New work created for this theme is we= lcome at any time--send it along whenever you're finished and happy wit= h it, and we will add it.

Thanks to everyone who has sent in ideas,= work for the compilation, and awards for tokens so far! :)

Dawn
=
What the Heck I'm Talking About

Themes.= Each person may send in one idea for a theme. Once you've designed a t= heme, we will announce it to your fellow SWGers, who will send in their wri= ting and artwork that they think fits the theme. We will then collect it in= a compilation.

Tokens. Each person may send in one idea for= a token. Tokens are small prizes that are given to stories and authors. On= ce you create a token, your fellow SWGers can award it to the story or auth= or they think most deserving. We don't count votes or anything like tha= t--it's just an opportunity to show an author that you appreciate her o= r his work. Authors or stories given tokens receive an icon to display on t= he story notes or in their profile.

--
~oOo~
D= awn Felagund
htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e659f6fea25c7c048d327a4b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3206 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99186 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2010 16:39:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Aug 2010 16:39:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f178.google.com) (74.125.82.178) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Aug 2010 16:39:09 -0000 X-Received: by wyb34 with SMTP id 34so11859491wyb.37 for ; Sun, 08 Aug 2010 09:39:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.127.84 with SMTP id f20mr12843766wbs.3.1281285547349; Sun, 08 Aug 2010 09:39:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Aug 2010 09:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:39:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367fa534e7d56f048d5289d0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Theme and Token List Complete! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=fDLBd1NEY-Yi3SAEkIB10ehTiAJQ8qRJztfmOw2XcyjmIHqRd8gS X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016367fa534e7d56f048d5289d0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, As of last night, we stopped accepting new ideas for themes and t= okens, so we now have a complete list and schedule. But first, and very im= portantly, *if you have sent us writing or art for inclusion in one of the = themed compilations, and you have not* *heard from us that we've received i= t, please contact us to confirm receipt.* We've had a few pieces disappear = into the wilds of the Internet. Likewise, if you proposed a theme or token = and do not see it on the list, please let us know. Here are the new themes= that I added to the site last night: *What Would Socrates Say?* For stori= es in which characters question their own or another's philosophy or belief= s and thus challenge the status quo. *The Lays of Beleriand Reloaded.* Or,= "Poetry in Motion." A theme that celebrates verse inspired by The Silmaril= lion and ancillary works. *Into the Woods.* A celebration of stories focus= ed on the denizens of Doriath. *To My Dear ...* The distances between cert= ain characters are enormous, but they somehow maintain close friendships. W= hy not publish the letters they used to stay in touch? All of the themes (= plus due dates for sending in older work, posting dates, et cetera) can be = found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#current A= nd here are the new tokens that were added: *Most Delightful Heresy.* For = the most refreshing, insightful or intriguing deviation from common fanon o= r canon interpretation. *The Golden Vial of Oil Award.* For slash that is = both erotic and humorous. *Most Likely to Make a Linguist Happy.* For crea= tive use of Tolkien's imaginary languages in a story. *The Tirion Mothers = Against Oath-Taking Public Service Award.* For an outstanding portrayal of = Nerdanel. *Is That a Strongbow in Your Pocket or Are You Just Glad to See = Me?* For an excellent portrayal of Beleg. *She's All That.* For an engagin= g characterization of Luthien. *You Made Me Love You (I didn't want to do = it).* Awarded to a story that took a canon character you didn't care for an= d redeemed him/her. *It's Only a Flesh Wound.* For writing involving injur= ies and their treatment. *First Times.* The first rise of the sun or moon,= the first time someone makes love, or the first time someone takes a sword= in hand - this is a token for stories describing exciting, astonishing, pa= inful or beautiful first times. *Spring and Summer; Love and Laughter.* A = token to honor those who write stories that cheer us up after we depress ou= rselves reading the more prevalent stories of tragedy and despair. *The Wo= rdsmith.* Just like F=C3=ABanor put a secret power into the Silmarils, the = recipient of this token weaves magic into her or his writing. Stories, poem= s, and authors who receive this token show exceptional wordsmithing craft. = All of the tokens can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/birthday.php#tokens Also, when sending in your choices for tokens, plea= se don't forget to include your name on the form! Last night, we received a= lot of token selections without names. We really want to give these out (a= nd are trying to locate who might have sent them--if it was you, please let= us know! :), but since each person can give each token only once, we can't= give out tokens unless we know who's giving them. Finally, the deadline f= or the "Numenorean Queens" compilation is tomorrow (August 9) for older wor= k. If you're writing a new piece for this theme, there is no due date; send= it in when you're finished and happy with it, and we'll add it then. But i= f you have an older story, essay, poem, or artwork that you'd like included= in this theme, please send it no later than tomorrow. Everything you coul= d want to know about the birthday event and then some is up on our birthday= page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php. If, somehow, w= e've overlooked your question or concern, please just ask! :) Best regards= , Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaste= r/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016367fa534e7d56f048d5289d0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

As of last night, we stopped accepting new ideas for themes= and tokens, so we now have a complete list and schedule.

But first,= and very importantly, if you have sent us writing or art for inclusion = in one of the themed compilations, and you have not heard fro= m us that we've received it, please contact us to confirm receipt. = We've had a few pieces disappear into the wilds of the Internet. Likewi= se, if you proposed a theme or token and do not see it on the list, please = let us know.

Here are the new themes that I added to the site last = night:

What Would Socrates Say? For stories in whic= h characters question their own or another's philosophy or beliefs and = thus challenge the status quo.

The Lays of Beleriand Reload= ed. Or, "Poetry in Motion." A theme that celebrates vers= e inspired by The Silmarillion and ancillary works.

Into the= Woods. A celebration of stories focused on the denizens of Doriat= h.

To My Dear ... The distances between certain ch= aracters are enormous, but they somehow maintain close friendships. Why no= t publish the letters they used to stay in touch?

All of the themes= (plus due dates for sending in older work, posting dates, et cetera) can b= e found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#current

And here are the new tokens that were added:

Most = Delightful Heresy. For the most refreshing, insightful or intrigui= ng deviation from common fanon or canon interpretation.

The = Golden Vial of Oil Award. For slash that is both erotic and humoro= us.

Most Likely to Make a Linguist Happy. For crea= tive use of Tolkien's imaginary languages in a story.

Th= e Tirion Mothers Against Oath-Taking Public Service Award. For an = outstanding portrayal of Nerdanel.

Is That a Strongbow in Y= our Pocket or Are You Just Glad to See Me? For an excellent portra= yal of Beleg.

She's All That. For an engaging c= haracterization of Luthien.

You Made Me Love You (I didn= 9;t want to do it). Awarded to a story that took a canon character= you didn't care for and redeemed him/her.

It's Only= a Flesh Wound. For writing involving injuries and their treatment= .

First Times. The first rise of the sun or moon, = the first time someone makes love, or the first time someone takes a sword= in hand - this is a token for stories describing exciting, astonishing, = painful or beautiful first times.

Spring and Summer; Love an= d Laughter. A token to honor those who write stories that cheer u= s up after we depress ourselves reading the more prevalent stories of trag= edy and despair.

The Wordsmith. Just like F=C3=ABan= or put a secret power into the Silmarils, the recipient of this token weav= es magic into her or his writing. Stories, poems, and authors who receive = this token show exceptional wordsmithing craft.

All of the tokens c= an be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#tokens<= /a>

Also, when sending in your choices for tokens, please don't = forget to include your name on the form! Last night, we received a lot of t= oken selections without names. We really want to give these out (and are tr= ying to locate who might have sent them--if it was you, please let us know!= :), but since each person can give each token only once, we can't give= out tokens unless we know who's giving them.

Finally, the dead= line for the "Numenorean Queens" compilation is tomorrow (August = 9) for older work. If you're writing a new piece for this theme, there = is no due date; send it in when you're finished and happy with it, and = we'll add it then. But if you have an older story, essay, poem, or artw= ork that you'd like included in this theme, please send it no later tha= n tomorrow.

Everything you could want to know about the birthday ev= ent and then some is up on our birthday page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org= /birthday.php. If, somehow, we've overlooked your question or conce= rn, please just ask! :)

Best regards,

Dawn


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org
--0016367fa534e7d56f048d5289d0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3207 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48692 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2010 14:21:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Aug 2010 14:21:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f43.google.com) (209.85.215.43) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Aug 2010 14:21:25 -0000 X-Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so5822982ewy.2 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:21:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.165.16 with SMTP id d16mr5191433wel.0.1281450084554; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:21:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.86 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:21:24 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e649837c16aa95048d78d91a From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "Who?" Compilation Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=QRHRqh77GioVdwSE96J3B7Ul5pb__Ed2P8MiFwKd1Fc2WoWD4A9Q X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e649837c16aa95048d78d91a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, The first compilation for our birthday celebration has been posted! The theme is "Who? A Celebration of Minor and Original Characters." We received *a lot* of entries for this one, so do check it out! There are many excellent pieces collected in this compilation. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/who.php Please remember that tomorrow is the deadline for any older works that you would like included for the "Clash of the Titans" theme. New works created for the themes--including the one posted today!--are welcome at any time, and we will add them. Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e649837c16aa95048d78d91a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

The first compilation for our birthday celebration has= been posted! The theme is "Who? A Celebration of Minor and Original C= haracters." We received a lot of entries for this one, so do ch= eck it out! There are many excellent pieces collected in this compilation.<= br>
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/who.php

Pleas= e remember that tomorrow is the deadline for any older works that you would= like included for the "Clash of the Titans" theme. New works cre= ated for the themes--including the one posted today!--are welcome at any ti= me, and we will add them.

Enjoy!

Dawn

-= -
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org
--0016e649837c16aa95048d78d91a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3208 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10541 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2010 13:40:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Aug 2010 13:40:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f180.google.com) (74.125.82.180) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Aug 2010 13:40:28 -0000 X-Received: by wya21 with SMTP id 21so1930606wya.11 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 06:40:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.127.194 with SMTP id h2mr106956wbs.74.1281620418844; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 06:40:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.10.14 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 06:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:40:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636832feacd5adb048da081cf X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Numenorean Queens Theme Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rwXG3yecw9UItj34LVeI9wHly_cdftdalBAacMD12FAtyKjOxrM- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636832feacd5adb048da081cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I have just posted the compilation for our second theme, Numenorean Queens: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/queens.php In addition, Himring wrote a new story for it, "Pyrrhic Wedding," so that is up on the compilation as well as its own page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/pyrrhic.php Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636832feacd5adb048da081cf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I have just posted the compilation for our second them= e, Numenorean Queens:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/= queens.php

In addition, Himring wrote a new story for it, "= ;Pyrrhic Wedding," so that is up on the compilation as well as its own= page:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/pyrrhic.php

Enjoy!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fela= gund
http://them= idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636832feacd5adb048da081cf-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3209 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1122 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2010 03:49:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2010 03:49:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wy0-f171.google.com) (74.125.82.171) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2010 03:49:10 -0000 X-Received: by wyb29 with SMTP id 29so5473337wyb.2 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 20:49:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.179.195 with SMTP id h45mr1172782wem.60.1281844149045; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 20:49:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.88 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 20:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 23:49:09 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367fa8c1294ace048dd49927 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "Clash of the Titans" Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=UVoagiCdfLTt4CPGQp1KDXywqHtjqMp7OBnOexQqH9mj9Zk-cKTQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016367fa8c1294ace048dd49927 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I am *barely* squeaking this one in on time by my time and know it is overdue for many of you--my apologies! I was away today at the Renaissance Faire with my family, doing well by the Felagund family name by donning my pointy ears and acting most Elvishly. This compilation is a good one--worth the wait, I hope! :) We have many excerpts and poems about clashes between powerful characters up in the compilation: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/titans.php In addition, Esteliel has authored a brand new story about the clash between Glorfindel and the Balrog: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/shadow.php "Do Something That's Never Been Done" is the next theme up! The due date is technically today, so if you have an older work that you want included and haven't sent, please send it asap! (Since I am late in posting, I will be forgiving of lateness on this one. ;) After that is "Heroes and Antiheroes," with the due date on the 16th for older works. Please remember that there is *no due date* for new works created for the themes. If you have a piece created for any of the themes we've posted so far, it is welcome at any time, and I will add it. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016367fa8c1294ace048dd49927 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am barely squeaking this one in on time by my time and know it is = overdue for many of you--my apologies! I was away today at the Renaissance = Faire with my family, doing well by the Felagund family name by donning my = pointy ears and acting most Elvishly.

This compilation is a good on= e--worth the wait, I hope! :) We have many excerpts and poems about clashes= between powerful characters up in the compilation:

http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org/birthday/titans.php

In addition, Esteliel = has authored a brand new story about the clash between Glorfindel and the B= alrog:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/shadow.php<= br>
"Do Something That's Never Been Done" is the next the= me up! The due date is technically today, so if you have an older work that= you want included and haven't sent, please send it asap! (Since I am l= ate in posting, I will be forgiving of lateness on this one. ;) After that = is "Heroes and Antiheroes," with the due date on the 16th for old= er works. Please remember that there is no due date for new works cr= eated for the themes. If you have a piece created for any of the themes we&= #39;ve posted so far, it is welcome at any time, and I will add it.
All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagu= nd
http://themid= havens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016367fa8c1294ace048dd49927-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3210 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49250 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2010 14:30:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2010 14:30:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f46.google.com) (209.85.215.46) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2010 14:30:17 -0000 X-Received: by ewy23 with SMTP id 23so3232995ewy.5 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:30:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.159.129 with SMTP id s1mr5735603wek.42.1282055415624; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:30:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.88 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:30:15 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e65b6102a1750d048e05c914 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "Do Something That's Never Been Done" Compilation Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=2e2vTHNcSSy9nF7vdO2Oe6mUQprtBxyMzdGaS6gP3UeWhoYYYPay X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e65b6102a1750d048e05c914 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone, Today's compilation for the "Do Something That's Never Been = Done" theme has been posted! Once again, we have a nice mix of stories and = art, as well as several new pieces. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g/birthday/never.php In Lady Roisin's "Opportunity Discovered and Seized,"= Erendis captures Aldarion's eye on the day that he is to take the sceptre = of Numenor, spurring one of *The Silmarillion*'s tumultuous romances. http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/opportunity.php In Russandol'= s humor piece "Livinl=C3=A4vid=C3=A4," Legolas makes a bet with Gimli that = he can do something that's never been done. Manwe is not impressed! http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/livinlavida.php In Lyra's "Unpr= ecendented," Fingon announces to his surprised family whom he intends to ma= rry: Maedhros. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/unpreceden= ted.php In "F=C3=ABanaro," Idril Vanimedle puts a new twist on a familiar = story: the sibling rivalry between Fingolfin and Feanor, *daughter* of Miri= el. The next due date is tomorrow, for older works entered for the "Perfec= t Matches" theme. Perfect Matches is a compilation of crossovers, so if you= have a crossover that you'd like to see included, please let us know! Als= o, if I could beg and plead a favor of my fellow SWGers. I am going to be a= way on vacation beginning this weekend. My wonderful comod Rhapsody will be= handling uploads for the birthday event while I'm gone. However, it would = be most helpful if any older works for Most Sinister Villain could be in Fr= iday or earlier. This will **allow me to get the compilation completely rea= dy so that all Rhapsy has to do is post it next Tuesday. (If you have any *= new*works for Perfect Matches or Sinister Villain that are finished, having= them to me by Friday as well would make me most happy so that I could get = them ready too!) If you *can't *get them in by Friday, we will still be ac= cepting Sinister Villain entries through the 21st. But if a spare moment ha= ppens to present itself in the next few days, and they can be sent early, w= e'd all be most grateful! Final note: Please remember that due dates apply= only to *older* works. We are still accepting new works for *all* of the t= hemes! Thank you and best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://t= hemidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org= --0016e65b6102a1750d048e05c914 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Today's compilation for the "Do Something Tha= t's Never Been Done" theme has been posted! Once again, we have a = nice mix of stories and art, as well as several new pieces.

http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/never.php

In Lady Roisin&= #39;s "Opportunity Discovered and Seized," Erendis captures Aldar= ion's eye on the day that he is to take the sceptre of Numenor, spurrin= g one of The Silmarillion's tumultuous romances.

http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/opportunity.php

In R= ussandol's humor piece "Livinl=C3=A4vid=C3=A4," Legolas makes= a bet with Gimli that he can do something that's never been done. Manw= e is not impressed!

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birth= day/livinlavida.php

In Lyra's "Unprecendented," Fi= ngon announces to his surprised family whom he intends to marry: Maedhros.<= br>
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/unprecedented.= php

In "F=C3=ABanaro," Idril Vanimedle puts a new twis= t on a familiar story: the sibling rivalry between Fingolfin and Feanor, daughter of Miriel.

The next due date is tomorrow, for older w= orks entered for the "Perfect Matches" theme. Perfect Matches is = a compilation of crossovers, so if you have a crossover that you'd like= to see included, please let us know!

Also, if I could beg and plea= d a favor of my fellow SWGers. I am going to be away on vacation beginning = this weekend. My wonderful comod Rhapsody will be handling uploads for the = birthday event while I'm gone. However, it would be most helpful if any= older works for Most Sinister Villain could be in Friday or earlier. This = will allow me to get the compilation completely ready so that all Rh= apsy has to do is post it next Tuesday. (If you have any new works f= or Perfect Matches or Sinister Villain that are finished, having them to me= by Friday as well would make me most happy so that I could get them ready = too!)

If you can't get them in by Friday, we will still = be accepting Sinister Villain entries through the 21st. But if a spare mome= nt happens to present itself in the next few days, and they can be sent ear= ly, we'd all be most grateful!

Final note: Please remember that= due dates apply only to older works. We are still accepting new wor= ks for all of the themes!

Thank you and best regards,

= Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lo= remaster/
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e65b6102a1750d048e05c914-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3211 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7846 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2010 14:38:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2010 14:38:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ey0-f175.google.com) (209.85.215.175) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2010 14:38:17 -0000 X-Received: by eyx24 with SMTP id 24so3119927eyx.6 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:37:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.150.195 with SMTP id z45mr838364wej.63.1282055876903; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:37:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.88 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:37:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:37:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6da985a201178048e05e5c4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: "Do Something That's Never Been Done" Compilation Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=OfrfSBT3iFM14xILVpJBhYLKCywJ9_SO01wR_gD_DmRrls2scijy X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6da985a201178048e05e5c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I forgot to post a link to Idril's new story, "Feanaro." Here it is: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/feanaro.php Sorry, Idril! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6da985a201178048e05e5c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I forgot to post a link to Idril's new story, "Feanaro." Here= it is:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/feanaro.php

Sorry, Idril!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
D= awn Felagund
htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e6da985a201178048e05e5c4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3212 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33297 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2010 18:57:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2010 18:57:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web46009.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (68.180.199.102) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2010 18:57:55 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 40779 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Aug 2010 18:57:55 -0000 Message-ID: <400294.40684.qm@web46009.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: E7oBDCoVM1lg4llRSJd.QNSMP_UI0R9HFRiyT6It_kED5KU t6KGlW4lKyF1VJ_eIozFOCQF8V6fKr9rFIchptmw1QKjDM2XRScQT4oWdcTl taeEsEeE21PEVDCdsW5kvW_xCyaCecxSbtOP3cXihc2iReHbcB2DX46PWq3z KEOrci8y6X41PRLlSwZqG1W6tzOw3xB4BCCtzh_JfVkkBNJw9cMm57IVRSHN jgfHVdbQ.dAhRukxT_FeEtOXc4MXXa_Hp_DR6mzlbAm46JGn6ZaxKEKqnRCZ nrij13osGWwfY_l53BA-- X-Received: from [64.76.110.179] by web46009.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:57:54 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:57:54 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1252860872-1282071474=:40684" From: Silver Trails Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Do Something That's Never Been Done" Compilation Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=Pe0AatYy149weO7ZrYR5DxLNn1_MKa9zafhoSacxfdnhd6uaOCkoEA X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails --0-1252860872-1282071474=:40684 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a=C2=A0link to fix for Linvinlavida, I think. =C2=A0 I was writin= g a crossover, new story, but I'm not done yet, and I'll need to find a bet= a. I suppose I can send it later. =C2=A0 Cecilia --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Daw= n Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Do Something That's= Never Been Done" Compilation Posted! To: "SWG" Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 2:37 PM =C2=A0 I forg= ot to post a link to Idril's new story, "Feanaro." Here it is: http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/feanaro.php Sorry, Idril! Dawn -- = ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org --0-1252860872-1282071474=:40684 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--0-1252860872-1282071474=:40684-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3213 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86748 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2010 19:34:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2010 19:34:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f44.google.com) (74.125.82.44) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2010 19:34:31 -0000 X-Received: by wwi17 with SMTP id 17so1539880wwi.1 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:34:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.216.235.106 with SMTP id t84mr6043611weq.46.1282073670356; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:34:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.235.88 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:34:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <400294.40684.qm@web46009.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <400294.40684.qm@web46009.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:34:30 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151757415eb290f8048e0a092d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Do Something That's Never Been Done" Compilation Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Dl7G7IHlxZBRHCvKub03UctppVuPW0BeSX9BkJedqDQuHJ6pU9mp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00151757415eb290f8048e0a092d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks, CC! I fixed the link. I seem determined to spell that title wrong! (I made the same spelling mistake on the link for the image.) Please send your crossover whenever you're finished and happy with it, and I'll add it then! :) I have ideas for some new stories myself that I have not even started much less finished ... :^/ Dawn On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Silver Trails wrote: > > > There is a link to fix for Linvinlavida, I think. > > I was writing a crossover, new story, but I'm not done yet, and I'll need > to find a beta. I suppose I can send it later. > > Cecilia > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00151757415eb290f8048e0a092d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, CC! I fixed the link. I seem determined to spell that title wrong! = (I made the same spelling mistake on the link for the image.)

Please= send your crossover whenever you're finished and happy with it, and I&= #39;ll add it then! :) I have ideas for some new stories myself that I have= not even started much less finished ... :^/

Dawn

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Silver Trails <silver.trails@yahoo= .com> wrote:
=C2=A0
=

There is a link to fix for Linvinla= vida, I think.
 
I was writing a crossover, new= story, but I'm not done yet, and I'll need to find a beta. I suppose I can= send it later.
 
Cecilia

--- On Tue,= 8/17/10, Dawn Felagund wrote:

From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Do Something That's N= ever Been Done" Compilation Posted!
To: "SWG"
Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 2:37 PM

<= DIV id=3Dyiv966410518> 
I forgot to post a link to Idril's new story= , "Feanaro." Here it is:

http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org/birthday/feanaro.php

Sorry, Idril!
=
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
ht= tp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org
<= td style=3D"font: inherit;" valign=3D"top">
There is a=C2=A0link to fix= for Linvinlavida, I think.
=C2=A0
I was writing a c= rossover, new story, but I'm not done yet, and I'll need to find a = beta. I suppose I can send it later.
=C2=A0
Cecilia<= br>

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org
--00151757415eb290f8048e0a092d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3214 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37219 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2010 19:37:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2010 19:37:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web46011.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (68.180.199.104) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2010 19:37:44 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 55873 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Aug 2010 19:37:36 -0000 Message-ID: <769601.54793.qm@web46011.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 4AJYbZcVM1n4I1RuD1JZRVym80qiy6h2p8qu2_3.xjBwYKY 5zIa.ToXnyDqm72.CKogeYm5QkMWj9WnCJlDtnqWM_EhvDxIBIYsPftiK8uz A_Eqo0QH4q5iqIHB1FQ5dIC63lVpl0gRvFuqYsQxkNrXP4M.bTFkJWso6A_l oH_w.4WzqWLyGiFuuxEjdgrByo5XAHOu3lptx5MugLCxy.ZmxVzbUKi6JN4V 17t1GlsH0CQZhHEU73spSEe9c63YsiQjMMaz57JCaMku6tryolGUhyL4Y7dC wWe5wAk3rTSlEbY4OZHa5bzKCgFC11SrO5dEMt04- X-Received: from [64.76.110.179] by web46011.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:37:36 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.3.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:37:36 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-804140307-1282073856=:54793" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silver Trails Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Do Something That's Never Been Done" Compilation Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=qPxM3HQL4SZ6zn-gQPDpI1PbmebPR72B2MQ2-uZLuq0F-qLyPx9C7w X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails --0-804140307-1282073856=:54793 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay! =C2=A0 I didn't realize I had sent the email to all the group. Sorry!= (g) =C2=A0 Cecilia --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [S= ilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: "Do Something That's Never Been Done" Compilat= ion Posted! To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, Aug= ust 17, 2010, 7:34 PM =C2=A0 Thanks, CC! I fixed the link. I seem det= ermined to spell that title wrong! (I made the same spelling mistake on the= link for the image.) Please send your crossover whenever you're finished = and happy with it, and I'll add it then! :) I have ideas for some new stori= es myself that I have not even started much less finished ... :^/ Dawn O= n Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Silver Trails wro= te: =C2=A0 There is a=C2=A0link to fix for Linvinlavida, I think= . =C2=A0 I was writing a crossover, new story, but I'm not done yet, and I= 'll need to find a beta. I suppose I can send it later. =C2=A0 Cecilia --= ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://ww= w.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0-804140307-1282073856=:54793 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Okay!
 
I did= n't realize I had sent the email to all the group. Sorry! (g)
&n= bsp;
Cecilia

--- On Tue, 8/17/10, Dawn Felagund <= ;DawnFelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
=
From: Dawn Felagund
Subject: Re: [Sil= marillionWritersGuild] Re: "Do Something That's Never Been Done" Compilatio= n Posted!
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday,= August 17, 2010, 7:34 PM

 
Thanks, = CC! I fixed the link. I seem determined to spell that title wrong! (I made = the same spelling mistake on the link for the image.)

Please send yo= ur crossover whenever you're finished and happy with it, and I'll add it th= en! :) I have ideas for some new stories myself that I have not even starte= d much less finished ... :^/

Dawn

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Silver Trails = <silver.trails@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
There is a link to fix fo= r Linvinlavida, I think.
 
I was writing a cros= sover, new story, but I'm not done yet, and I'll need to find a beta. I sup= pose I can send it later.
 
Cecilia

-- <= BR>~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lo= remaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
=

--0-804140307-1282073856=:54793-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3215 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92394 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2010 14:17:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Aug 2010 14:17:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f174.google.com) (209.85.214.174) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2010 14:17:26 -0000 X-Received: by iwn1 with SMTP id 1so219104iwn.33 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2010 07:17:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.155.206 with SMTP id t14mr11305101ibw.34.1282227445306; Thu, 19 Aug 2010 07:17:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.179.199 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Aug 2010 07:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:17:25 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504501567866146f048e2dd7bc X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "Heroes and Antiheroes" Compilation Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=_kC0axZcZLIs2jp6UtSNYShUI8CidH5VKzw_sHIqdqjBx-wrt7I3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00504501567866146f048e2dd7bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, The compilation for the Heroes and Antiheroes theme has been posted up on the site: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/heroes.php It includes a mix of stories that have been on the archive for a while, as well as some pieces that are recently added, and some gorgeous artwork! The next due date is for Most Sinister Villain, on 21 August. However, as I noted in my last announcement, I will be leaving for vacation on Saturday. If you have any older works that you would like included in the compilation, I would be most grateful if they could be sent over today or tomorrow so that I can have everything finished before I leave. If that's not possible, that's fine, of course--the due date will remain the 21st. But if you have a spare moment, I would be most grateful to have them early. *Important Note!!! *Along those lines, beginning on Saturday, please send any birthday submissions for Sinister Villain to the moderator email address, or use the form on the website. Please don't send them to my personal email address! I *should* have email access at my hotel, but these things are never a guarantee, and I don't want any entries overlooked because I was unable to access my email. The same goes for any issues that require urgent attention. The mod address forwards to several of us, so issues can be handled quickly. That address is moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Please remember too that due dates apply only to *older* works that you want included in the compilation. If you're working on a new story for one of the themes, you can send it at any time, and we will add it. Thanks and take care, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00504501567866146f048e2dd7bc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

The compilation for the Heroes and Antiheroes theme ha= s been posted up on the site:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b= irthday/heroes.php

It includes a mix of stories that have been = on the archive for a while, as well as some pieces that are recently added,= and some gorgeous artwork!

The next due date is for Most Sinister V= illain, on 21 August. However, as I noted in my last announcement, I will b= e leaving for vacation on Saturday. If you have any older works that you wo= uld like included in the compilation, I would be most grateful if they coul= d be sent over today or tomorrow so that I can have everything finished bef= ore I leave. If that's not possible, that's fine, of course--the du= e date will remain the 21st. But if you have a spare moment, I would be mos= t grateful to have them early.

Important Note!!! Along those= lines, beginning on Saturday, please send any birthday submissions for Sin= ister Villain to the moderator email address, or use the form on the websit= e. Please don't send them to my personal email address! I should= have email access at my hotel, but these things are never a guarantee, and= I don't want any entries overlooked because I was unable to access my = email. The same goes for any issues that require urgent attention. The mod = address forwards to several of us, so issues can be handled quickly. That a= ddress is moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.

Please rem= ember too that due dates apply only to older works that you want inc= luded in the compilation. If you're working on a new story for one of t= he themes, you can send it at any time, and we will add it.

Thanks = and take care,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagu= nd
http://themid= havens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00504501567866146f048e2dd7bc-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3216 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13832 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2010 00:07:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2010 00:07:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f175.google.com) (209.85.214.175) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2010 00:07:10 -0000 X-Received: by iwn38 with SMTP id 38so2376919iwn.20 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:07:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.39.196 with SMTP id h4mr490660ibe.64.1282262830519; Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:07:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.179.199 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:07:10 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Dr. Joan Bushwell" Cc: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215048f638594db048e36147b From: Dawn Felagund Subject: SWG Birthday Confirmation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=sDeXoWz5DoEKH6o8_u8xzdjom9fKJUh0pAMKxsp4QHAeT4JfTdIF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --002215048f638594db048e36147b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 You're more than forgiven. ;) We were a little thin on Perfect Matches, and yours rounds it out to a nice number! :) Thanks so much! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --002215048f638594db048e36147b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You're more than forgiven. ;) We were a little thin on Perfect Matches,= and yours rounds it out to a nice number! :) Thanks so much!

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaste= r/
http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org
--002215048f638594db048e36147b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3217 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74814 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2010 22:02:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2010 22:02:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2010 22:02:16 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Aug 2010 22:01:50 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Aug 2010 22:01:50 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 22:01:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: "Perfect Matches" posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=CHdtvKFOoD6_12XSLk6WQdyIsQesv31NgwUyjXeMxmf1YktgRNj3kVY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi, everyone, On behalf of our owner, I posted the compilation for the "Pe= rfect Matches" theme on the site: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/= birthday/perfect.php Today's theme includes a mix of crossover stories - w= ith a different fandom or our own history - that have been on the archive f= or a while, as well as some pieces that are recently added! We would also = remind everyone that the next due date for older works is for "Five Things"= , on 23 August. If you do have pieces that you would like to be added to th= e compilation, please use the form on the birthday page or send them to the= moderator e-mail account since Dawn will still be away on vacation. This = way we can include every contribution on time. Don't forget that we are sti= ll accepting new works for all of the themes! Have a fantastic time readi= ng! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3218 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67531 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2010 16:07:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2010 16:07:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2010 16:07:42 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2010 16:03:25 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2010 16:03:25 -0000 Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 16:03:23 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Brand new story posted for the "Perfect Matches"-theme X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=UDlLWddy9LAClqcFr_CGvrTL1rd6rzcn802g8Bhdz_ICtg0VwE-g7uU X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, This morning I received a brand new story for the "Perfect Matches= "-theme. The story has been added to the birthday celebration page and it h= as been written by oshun. In the tale "Cross-overs Are Harder Than They Loo= k" it is Fingon who tries to write fan fiction. You can find the story her= e: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/crossovers.php Enjoy!= Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3219 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21126 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2010 02:22:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2010 02:22:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2010 02:22:25 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2010 02:22:25 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2010 02:22:25 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 02:22:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "SilverT" Subject: Beta reader needed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=-7yQRxopBmzI5hpb-oGwSICqZqrKN8ZvPMVcB_d0KTtTTcd0LpeDXg X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails Hi, I have a short crossover, about Maglor and Methos from Highlander the = series meeting. Nothing romantic or slashy, just two people who will live f= orever (probably) meeting one night. It's around 1000 words, and I need a b= eta reader. It's okay if you don't know who Methos is. I can fill you in ab= out his story. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3220 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 37617 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2010 04:20:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2010 04:20:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n41b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.155) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2010 04:20:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1282537216; bh=QgKABbJgdew9vCvUvwk+c0Re5Z0GJNjj3FwWpSdAGsw=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Message-ID:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:X-AOL-IP:x-aol-global-disposition:X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE:X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT:x-aol-sid:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=vFGFK+ZkcElnHqVVjyX6NO7pVE7oogENSYfC5oORUGQsH5yXOCiAl02zOMEsqQmYmfaHrlLV/2Mf2ZrC2ioolZL90x0eJYoMyVaMTZr74zPFfozs0cZR+mPNYayI0NFi Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2010 04:20:16 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2010 04:20:16 -0000 X-Sender: IsisRising08@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66375 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2010 01:11:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2010 01:11:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma06.mx.aol.com) (64.12.78.142) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2010 01:11:21 -0000 X-Received: from mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.141]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o7N1B71F011941 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:11:07 -0400 X-Received: from core-mde003b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mde003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.46.9]) by mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id BF5B4E000086 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4d55f.73997aa3.39a324ab@aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:11:07 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_4d55f.73997aa3.39a324ab_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132 X-AOL-IP: 24.118.193.221 x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:424249760:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338d4c71caab7832 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: isisrising08@aol.com Subject: Re:"Perfect Matches" posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=395515053; y=mOjYb-KW3aGlr9cd95qYBMD0IwQo6oOhHCalig3cBHAVmBJt X-Yahoo-Profile: live2bead X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: tarion_anarore via web; 23 Aug 2010 04:20:16 -0000 --part1_4d55f.73997aa3.39a324ab_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rhapsody - You have the wrong link for Dawn's "Hastaina" tale. Here is the correct link: _http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=855& chapter=1_ (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=855&chapter=1) Sandra Graves - Erulisse (one L) Isis Rising Artistic Endeavors with Wings of Light Blog at _http://sandragravesisisrising.blogspot.com/_ (http://sandragravesisisrising.blogspot.com/) Website at _http://IsisRising08.com_ (http://isisrising08.com/) --part1_4d55f.73997aa3.39a324ab_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rhapsody - You have the wrong link for Daw= n's "Hastaina" tale.  Here is the correct link: 
&nbs= p;
 
 
Sandra Graves - Erulisse (one L)
Isis= Rising
Artistic Endeavors with Wings of Light

Blog at http://sandragravesisisrising= .blogspot.com/
Website at http:= //IsisRising08.com
--part1_4d55f.73997aa3.39a324ab_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3221 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72681 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2010 13:12:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2010 13:12:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2010 13:12:59 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2010 13:12:17 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2010 13:12:17 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:12:16 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4d55f.73997aa3.39a324ab@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Re:"Perfect Matches" posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=EnhtbxlQim_u_8abJJONVCGi-WuxM-zCkOHMmCgGzExOn0kdaE1C0iQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Good morning Erulisse! --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, is= isrising08@... wrote: > > Rhapsody - You have the wrong link for Dawn's "Ha= staina" tale. Here is the > correct link: > > _http://www.silmarillio= nwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=3D855& > chapter=3D1_ Th= anks for letting me know! I fixed the link! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3222 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94698 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2010 15:54:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Aug 2010 15:54:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Aug 2010 15:54:08 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Aug 2010 15:49:42 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Aug 2010 15:49:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:49:41 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: "Most Sinister Villian" theme is posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Bljkq7l4gP09txYfPEt2ioGA1s3hODBHN64jqxBW5Dst86b1HapZU5Q X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi everyone, I just posted the compilation for the "Most Sinister Villian"= theme on the site: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/sinis= ter.php Today's theme includes an intriguing mix of stories featuring vill= ains, a gorgeous piece of art featuring a villain and we also have received= two new stories for this theme. Due to the nature of this theme, this comp= ilation and stories contains dark content, which includes discussion of tor= ture and sexual abuse. Reader discretion is advised. Onto the fresh storie= s! Atop Bald Mountain is written by Iavalir and relates the tale of an un= delivered letter from Finarfin to Fingolfin, which contains a message that = should have warned the latter of its perilous nature... http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org/birthday/atopbald.php Lyra has written the multi-cha= ptered story 'Time for Trial' where Sauron has become Ar-Pharaz=F4n's most = trusted advisor, but it is not an easy job even for a cunning Maia. An unkn= own intruder in the palace gardens, however, enables him to set some of his= more ambitious plans in motion. This story is complete and can be found he= re: www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/timefortrial1.php Tomorrow = =96 25th of August - is the due date for the older works that you can send = in for the "Minstrelsy and Music" theme. If you have characters who are sin= ging or you have a story about one of the "professionals" (Maglor, Daeron, = Ecthelion or Lindir), you can send in material for that theme! Final note:= Please remember that due dates apply only to *older* works. We are still a= ccepting new works for all of the themes and those stories can be send in a= ny time during this event! That's it for now! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3223 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35535 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2010 14:51:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Aug 2010 14:51:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pw0-f44.google.com) (209.85.160.44) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Aug 2010 14:51:08 -0000 X-Received: by pwi1 with SMTP id 1so793111pwi.3 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:51:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.114.148.15 with SMTP id v15mr11323443wad.127.1282834267886; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:51:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.153.12 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:51:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163645858ad7db9d048ebb206c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Five Things Compilation Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=kl17rSeKJlpA1nvUCMHK77D3zdPMgQq86veRtKa_-9peeZ1WsCh6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163645858ad7db9d048ebb206c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I have just posted a compilation and two new stories for the Five Things theme. The compilation can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/five.php Oshun has written a story entitled "Five Times That Nerdanel Said 'Yes' and One Time She Did Not" about one of the favored topics of Feanatic speculation: the begetting of the sons of Feanor. The first four chapters are up on the birthday page here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/fivetimes1.php And I have written a story for this challenge called "Five Bells," looking at the death of Miriel Serinde from five different perspectives: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/fivebells1.php Our next upcoming due date is for the Cuivienen theme, so if you have an older work that you'd like to see included in the compilation for this theme, please be sure to have it sent over by the 28th. You can either email us directly or use the form on the website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#send Please remember that due dates apply *only* to older works. If you feel inspired to write a story or poem or create artwork for one of the themes, we will add your contribution even if the due date has passed. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163645858ad7db9d048ebb206c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I have just posted a compilation and two new stories f= or the Five Things theme. The compilation can be found here:

http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/five.php

Oshun has written= a story entitled "Five Times That Nerdanel Said 'Yes' and One= Time She Did Not" about one of the favored topics of Feanatic specula= tion: the begetting of the sons of Feanor. The first four chapters are up o= n the birthday page here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/= birthday/fivetimes1.php

And I have written a story for this chal= lenge called "Five Bells," looking at the death of Miriel Serinde= from five different perspectives:

http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/birthday/fivebells1.php

Our next upcoming due date is f= or the Cuivienen theme, so if you have an older work that you'd like to= see included in the compilation for this theme, please be sure to have it = sent over by the 28th. You can either email us directly or use the form on = the website:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#send

Please remember that due dates apply only to older works. = If you feel inspired to write a story or poem or create artwork for one of = the themes, we will add your contribution even if the due date has passed.<= br>
All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn= Felagund
http:/= /themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00163645858ad7db9d048ebb206c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3224 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20806 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2010 03:19:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2010 03:19:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f169.google.com) (209.85.214.169) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2010 03:19:51 -0000 X-Received: by iwn33 with SMTP id 33so5195926iwn.14 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:19:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.148.20 with SMTP id n20mr3088069ibv.196.1283051991091; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:19:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.124.41 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:19:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 23:19:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6509b5028491b048eedd2ec From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "Minstrelsy and Music" Compilation Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=pZcX2hEn_gIcLbbHIjN9AqnfzY3Bj6l5E_2FQYQh_h0iprPN6CnC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6509b5028491b048eedd2ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Happy Saturday, everyone! I am once again squeaking in just under the wire by my time in getting the next theme posted on Saturday. Apologies for the delay--you all now know that Saturday is one of the busiest days of the week for me. :) In any case, the Minstrelsy and Magic theme has been posted. First, we have one of our most extensive compilations, with many fine story excerpts, ficlets, and works of art focusing on music and musicians. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/minstrelsy.php We also have a pair of new stories. In Lady Roisin's "Hymn of the Trees and Stars," Daeron's young daughter wishes to follow in her father's footsteps and learn to play music. The story is also illustrated by Lyra. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/hymnofthetrees.php Rhapsody has been working on her novel *Bard Rising* since NaNoWriMo 2007--three years!--and is at last sharing the first chapters of her story for this theme. Rhapsy's novel will take readers on a journey, showing how Maglor went from one of Arda's most famed musicians to a kinslayer and famed warrior. The prologue and first two chapters begin here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/bardrising1.php The next upcoming due date is for the Through the Ages theme, which features writing and artwork about characters who play an important role in multiple ages. Any older work that you'd like us to include in the Through the Ages compilation should be in by Monday, August 30. Older works for the Cuivienen theme were technically due today, but since I am so late in sending out this announcement, if you missed sending something, I will be less inclined to look at the date on the email for the next day or so. ;) I hope everyone enjoys the new compilation and many, many thanks to those of you who have contributed so far by sharing work, reading and reviewing your groupmates' stories, suggesting themes and tokens, and awarding tokens! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6509b5028491b048eedd2ec Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Happy Saturday, everyone!

I am once again squeaking in just under th= e wire by my time in getting the next theme posted on Saturday. Apologies f= or the delay--you all now know that Saturday is one of the busiest days of = the week for me. :) In any case, the Minstrelsy and Magic theme has been po= sted. First, we have one of our most extensive compilations, with many fine= story excerpts, ficlets, and works of art focusing on music and musicians.=

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/minstrelsy.php

We also have a pair of new stories. In Lady Roisin's "Hy= mn of the Trees and Stars," Daeron's young daughter wishes to foll= ow in her father's footsteps and learn to play music. The story is also= illustrated by Lyra.

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/= birthday/hymnofthetrees.php

Rhapsody has been working on her nov= el Bard Rising since NaNoWriMo 2007--three years!--and is at last sh= aring the first chapters of her story for this theme. Rhapsy's novel wi= ll take readers on a journey, showing how Maglor went from one of Arda'= s most famed musicians to a kinslayer and famed warrior. The prologue and f= irst two chapters begin here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org/birthday/bardrising1.php

The next upcoming due date is for = the Through the Ages theme, which features writing and artwork about charac= ters who play an important role in multiple ages. Any older work that you&#= 39;d like us to include in the Through the Ages compilation should be in by= Monday, August 30. Older works for the Cuivienen theme were technically du= e today, but since I am so late in sending out this announcement, if you mi= ssed sending something, I will be less inclined to look at the date on the = email for the next day or so. ;)

I hope everyone enjoys the new com= pilation and many, many thanks to those of you who have contributed so far = by sharing work, reading and reviewing your groupmates' stories, sugges= ting themes and tokens, and awarding tokens!

Dawn
=
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org
--0016e6509b5028491b048eedd2ec-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3225 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73753 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2010 01:30:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2010 01:30:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f171.google.com) (209.85.214.171) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2010 01:30:58 -0000 X-Received: by iwn42 with SMTP id 42so7126846iwn.2 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:30:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.139.212 with SMTP id f20mr5793114ibu.166.1283218257588; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:30:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.124.41 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:30:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e646120e69b062048f1488e9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "Cuivienen" Compilation Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KtY6zJIBikdDeQ-z-8MD-dP_SUX6kzGBk4UTXPNl-ai54GTFABTG X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e646120e69b062048f1488e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, To make up from my slacker behavior the two Saturdays that I've been trusted with birthday uploads (if the upload is done on time, you know Rhapsody has done it ;), then I am posting this one a bit early by my time by right on time for those of you over the pond. (Also, I have a few new additions and will probably forget to mention them if I don't do it now!) Firstly, the compilation for the "Cuivienen" theme is posted: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/cuivienen.php Two new pieces have also been added for past themes. Alasse has sent a new artwork for the "Heroes and Antiheroes" theme, entitled "Young Turin." It has been added here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/heroes.php#turin And Lyra has sent a new story for "Minstrelsy and Magic" about Fingon's musical abilities. "A Minor Talent" begins here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/minor1.php Finally, I received a very good question today over email that called my attention to a mistake I had made in wording the description for the "Into the Woods" theme. I was asked if only stories were eligible for that theme since the description specified "stories" and said nothing about artwork. In fact, stories, poetry, essays, artwork, and anything else you can dream up are eligible for *all* of the themes, unless the theme itself requires a specific format. (For example, "The Lays of Beleriand Reloaded" is specifically for poetry.) I've changed the wording on the site, but I wanted to point this out generally, since for every person who asks, usually five are wondering. :) Upcoming deadlines: Older works for "The Songfic That Wasn't" should be sent in by September 1, which is Wednesday. This theme asks you to use one line from a song or poem in your story (or poem or artwork ;). New works for any of the themes may be sent at any time--there are no due dates. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e646120e69b062048f1488e9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

To make up from my slacker behavior the two Saturdays = that I've been trusted with birthday uploads (if the upload is done on = time, you know Rhapsody has done it ;), then I am posting this one a bit ea= rly by my time by right on time for those of you over the pond. (Also, I ha= ve a few new additions and will probably forget to mention them if I don= 9;t do it now!)

Firstly, the compilation for the "Cuivienen&qu= ot; theme is posted:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthda= y/cuivienen.php

Two new pieces have also been added for past th= emes. Alasse has sent a new artwork for the "Heroes and Antiheroes&quo= t; theme, entitled "Young Turin." It has been added here:

= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/heroes.php#turin
And Lyra has sent a new story for "Minstrelsy and Magic" ab= out Fingon's musical abilities. "A Minor Talent" begins here= :

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/minor1.php
<= br>Finally, I received a very good question today over email that called my= attention to a mistake I had made in wording the description for the "= ;Into the Woods" theme. I was asked if only stories were eligible for = that theme since the description specified "stories" and said not= hing about artwork.

In fact, stories, poetry, essays, artwork, and = anything else you can dream up are eligible for all of the themes, u= nless the theme itself requires a specific format. (For example, "The = Lays of Beleriand Reloaded" is specifically for poetry.) I've chan= ged the wording on the site, but I wanted to point this out generally, sinc= e for every person who asks, usually five are wondering. :)

Upcomin= g deadlines: Older works for "The Songfic That Wasn't" should= be sent in by September 1, which is Wednesday. This theme asks you to use = one line from a song or poem in your story (or poem or artwork ;). New work= s for any of the themes may be sent at any time--there are no due dates.
All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn F= elagund
http://t= hemidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016e646120e69b062048f1488e9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3226 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38437 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2010 12:44:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m15.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2010 12:44:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f180.google.com) (209.85.214.180) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2010 12:44:56 -0000 X-Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so1272240iwn.11 for ; Wed, 01 Sep 2010 05:44:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.161.80 with SMTP id q16mr8605789ibx.142.1283345095706; Wed, 01 Sep 2010 05:44:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.124.41 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Sep 2010 05:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 08:44:55 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=005045013e158dd0f9048f32102a From: Dawn Felagund Subject: September 2010 Newsletter Is Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=QpzTXJouOeIutxPeD3SIz2f4NTi4x-3GrBPWNuZl_WSL7nRnCEJq X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --005045013e158dd0f9048f32102a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Last night, I posted the newsletter for September. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php In site news, we have a wrap-up of our birthday celebration so far. We've also added a new section to our Site Etiquette and Terms of Service for authors who want to archive large collections of older work with us. And, as we started last month, there is a list of all of the stories added, updated, and completed during the month of August. Oshun has authored an excellent biography about Aegnor for the Character of the Month. Although a minor character, Aegnor has a fascinating textual history, and as always, Oshun presents ideas that get the plotrabbits nibbling! We have a new challenge this month, Season of Change, for writing that looks at how characters perceive the different seasons in their lives. Finally, there is news from other groups in Around the World and Web. Many thanks to Oshun, Rhapsody, and Angelica for their work on this issue of the newsletter! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --005045013e158dd0f9048f32102a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Last night, I posted the newsletter for September.
=
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php

In = site news, we have a wrap-up of our birthday celebration so far. We've = also added a new section to our Site Etiquette and Terms of Service for aut= hors who want to archive large collections of older work with us. And, as w= e started last month, there is a list of all of the stories added, updated,= and completed during the month of August.

Oshun has authored an ex= cellent biography about Aegnor for the Character of the Month. Although a m= inor character, Aegnor has a fascinating textual history, and as always, Os= hun presents ideas that get the plotrabbits nibbling!

We have a new= challenge this month, Season of Change, for writing that looks at how char= acters perceive the different seasons in their lives. Finally, there is new= s from other groups in Around the World and Web.

Many thanks to Osh= un, Rhapsody, and Angelica for their work on this issue of the newsletter! = :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/h= eretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--005045013e158dd0f9048f32102a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3227 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48078 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2010 12:33:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2010 12:33:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f174.google.com) (209.85.214.174) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2010 12:33:06 -0000 X-Received: by iwn5 with SMTP id 5so471614iwn.5 for ; Thu, 02 Sep 2010 05:33:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.80.213 with SMTP id u21mr9533321ibk.173.1283430786369; Thu, 02 Sep 2010 05:33:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.124.41 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Sep 2010 05:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 08:33:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015176f0f341d9411048f46045c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "Through the Ages" Compilation Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=LYrOzOFJ-RefWdmwlVTxVH9HCOUymfZCTfAHGo7-4VQ0Ys6CsqoL X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015176f0f341d9411048f46045c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Today's theme is "Through the Ages," a theme that looks at stories, poems, and artwork about characters whose deeds were important in more than one age. We have many story excerpts collected in the compilation, in addition to three more works of art done by Szilvi. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/ages.php The next due date for older works for compilation is September 4, for the "What Would Socrates Say?" theme. This theme is for work where characters challenge their beliefs or those of someone else. *Important note:* Please resume sending everything birthday-related (or anything urgent at all, for that matter) to the moderators rather than me personally at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. This address forwards to several of our mods, including me, and is the best way to have issues speedily resolved. Between weather-related uncertainties in the next few days in my part of the world and travel plans that may or may not include reliable Internet access, this will assure that your work makes it into the birthday compilations on time rather than languishing in my inbox for days, if I'm without Internet. And, of course, my requisite reminder that due dates apply *only* to older works. If you have a new story, poem, or piece of artwork for one of the themes, we will add it at any time. Finally, the birthday event will conclude in just two weeks! I encourage everyone who wants to award tokens to do so soon because those two weeks will go quickly! :) Tokens are small awards that you can award to stories and authors you feel deserving, and it's a quick and easy way to show your appreciation for authors who have inspired and entertained you with their work. The list of tokens is here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#tokens And an easy-peasy form for sending your choices to the site mods is here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#award We will shortly be sending out emails to everyone who has awarded tokens so far, listing the tokens that you have given, so if you've forgotten which you've awarded, keep a lookout for this in the next week or so. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015176f0f341d9411048f46045c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Today's theme is "Through the Ages," a t= heme that looks at stories, poems, and artwork about characters whose deeds= were important in more than one age. We have many story excerpts collected= in the compilation, in addition to three more works of art done by Szilvi.=

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/ages.php

Th= e next due date for older works for compilation is September 4, for the &qu= ot;What Would Socrates Say?" theme. This theme is for work where chara= cters challenge their beliefs or those of someone else.

Importan= t note: Please resume sending everything birthday-related (or anything = urgent at all, for that matter) to the moderators rather than me personally= at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. This address forwards to= several of our mods, including me, and is the best way to have issues spee= dily resolved. Between weather-related uncertainties in the next few days i= n my part of the world and travel plans that may or may not include reliabl= e Internet access, this will assure that your work makes it into the birthd= ay compilations on time rather than languishing in my inbox for days, if I&= #39;m without Internet.

And, of course, my requisite reminder that = due dates apply only to older works. If you have a new story, poem, = or piece of artwork for one of the themes, we will add it at any time.
<= br>Finally, the birthday event will conclude in just two weeks! I encourage= everyone who wants to award tokens to do so soon because those two weeks w= ill go quickly! :) Tokens are small awards that you can award to stories an= d authors you feel deserving, and it's a quick and easy way to show you= r appreciation for authors who have inspired and entertained you with their= work. The list of tokens is here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org/birthday.php#tokens

And an easy-peasy form for sending your= choices to the site mods is here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/birthday.php#award

We will shortly be sending out emails to = everyone who has awarded tokens so far, listing the tokens that you have gi= ven, so if you've forgotten which you've awarded, keep a lookout fo= r this in the next week or so.

All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= br>http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org
--0015176f0f341d9411048f46045c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3228 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82527 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2010 16:10:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2010 16:10:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f176.google.com) (209.85.214.176) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2010 16:10:41 -0000 X-Received: by iwn9 with SMTP id 9so2636202iwn.21 for ; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 09:10:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.16.75 with SMTP id n11mr2713810iba.49.1283616640224; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 09:10:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.124.41 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Sep 2010 09:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 12:10:40 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215046dcfde59d6048f71494f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Sad News about Lady Roisin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wMFaw1GB6m37L6v4-19xJxfxyJjSuQL_HBcpPAzKF_2Y1FrlR4a1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --002215046dcfde59d6048f71494f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, As some of you know, Lady Roisin has been fighting cancer for the past few years. Sadly, last night, she passed away with family and pets at her side. Roisin was a gifted artist, writer, and costumer, and she was always so generous with those gifts. During her time with the SWG, less than two years, she not only wrote and shared 36 stories with us but was always one of the first to raise her hand when something needed to be done for the group. Many of the beautiful banners and graphics that we have been able to share with participants in group events were created by Roisin. She was a game moderator as well as our graphics designer for Back to Middle-earth Month 2010. I know that she created many personalized banners and graphics for SWG authors nominated for the MEFAs and other occasions. She led the charge as well in promoting research and writing about the Second Age, and the increasing popularity of this era in our community is no doubt in a good part due to her efforts. Roisin gave much of herself to this group and many of the members in it and asked for very little in return. She had a creative, generous spirit that is so rare in this world. She was also a friend to me and many of us here, and I know she will be missed and mourned. Her SWG profile and the stories she archived with us are up on the site here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewuser.php?uid=188 With regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --002215046dcfde59d6048f71494f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

As some of you know, Lady Roisin has been fighting can= cer for the past few years. Sadly, last night, she passed away with family = and pets at her side.

Roisin was a gifted artist, writer, and costum= er, and she was always so generous with those gifts. During her time with t= he SWG, less than two years, she not only wrote and shared 36 stories with = us but was always one of the first to raise her hand when something needed = to be done for the group. Many of the beautiful banners and graphics that w= e have been able to share with participants in group events were created by= Roisin. She was a game moderator as well as our graphics designer for Back= to Middle-earth Month 2010. I know that she created many personalized bann= ers and graphics for SWG authors nominated for the MEFAs and other occasion= s. She led the charge as well in promoting research and writing about the S= econd Age, and the increasing popularity of this era in our community is no= doubt in a good part due to her efforts. Roisin gave much of herself to th= is group and many of the members in it and asked for very little in return.= She had a creative, generous spirit that is so rare in this world.
She was also a friend to me and many of us here, and I know she will be mi= ssed and mourned.

Her SWG profile and the stories she archived with = us are up on the site here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org/archive/home/viewuser.php?uid=3D188

With regards,

= Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/
http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--002215046dcfde59d6048f71494f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3229 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52605 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2010 17:18:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2010 17:18:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f179.google.com) (209.85.214.179) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2010 17:18:05 -0000 X-Received: by mail-iw0-f179.google.com with SMTP id 4so3009938iwn.24 for ; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 10:18:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.171.3 with SMTP id f3mr3052742ibz.145.1283620685200; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 10:18:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.124.41 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Sep 2010 10:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 13:18:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d26cb6f7bd95048f723af7 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "The Songfic That Wasn't" Compilation Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=CqqPKGuFJ6PXNJemb9zsaKeoPOlrUzlSPGSdOfsM6oJ8a8uCkPdP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e6d26cb6f7bd95048f723af7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I've posted today's birthday compilation for the theme "The Songfic That Wasn't." This theme asked authors to write based on one line from a poem or song. The compilation is up on the site here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/songfic.php We also have three new stories written for this theme. In "Reflections," by Angelica, the Calaquendi and Moriquendi meet for the first time in the forest and discover commonalities as well as differences: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/reflections.php "Your Sins into Me," by Oshun, visits Fingon at a moment during his search for Maedhros: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/sins.php And Fiondil's "Breath of Arda" considers the role of the Valar in the War of the Ring at the end of the Third Age: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/breath.php We are reaching the end of our birthday themes and have just a little over a week left! Today is the last day to send in excerpts from older works for inclusion in the "What Would Socrates Say?" compilation. New works for any of the themes are welcome at any time, and we will add them. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e6d26cb6f7bd95048f723af7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I've posted today's birthday compilation for t= he theme "The Songfic That Wasn't." This theme asked authors = to write based on one line from a poem or song. The compilation is up on th= e site here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/songfic= .php

We also have three new stories written for this theme. In &= quot;Reflections," by Angelica, the Calaquendi and Moriquendi meet for= the first time in the forest and discover commonalities as well as differe= nces:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/reflection= s.php

"Your Sins into Me," by Oshun, visits Fingon at = a moment during his search for Maedhros:

http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/birthday/sins.php

And Fiondil's "Breath of Ard= a" considers the role of the Valar in the War of the Ring at the end o= f the Third Age:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/brea= th.php

We are reaching the end of our birthday themes and have j= ust a little over a week left! Today is the last day to send in excerpts fr= om older works for inclusion in the "What Would Socrates Say?" co= mpilation. New works for any of the themes are welcome at any time, and we = will add them.

All the best,

Dawn

-- ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g
--0016e6d26cb6f7bd95048f723af7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3230 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40324 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2010 20:01:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2010 20:01:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2010 20:01:30 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.51] (helo=mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Oshsg-0001gL-El for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:01:30 -0400 X-Received: from 66.37.233.51 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Mon, 6 Sep 2010 16:01:30 -0400 Message-ID: <10313526.1283803290495.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 15:01:30 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec794e9cbc1b6b1103d4944a5358c9ba0cd2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Sad News about Lady Roisin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=-cC8RebFoYeJm1BHud2w3ttcO1QHwSN9RcfqTFlSww8rZ2IXrTLQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 This is sad news indeed, Dawn. Thanks for letting all of us know about Lad= y Roisin's passing. The world was a better place for her being in it. Ith= ilwen -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund Sent: Sep 4, 2010 = 11:10 AM To: SWG Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Sad News about Lady= Roisin Hi, everyone, As some of you know, Lady Roisin has been fighting= cancer for the past few years. Sadly, last night, she passed away with fam= ily and pets at her side. Roisin was a gifted artist, writer, and costumer= , and she was always so generous with those gifts. During her time with the= SWG, less than two years, she not only wrote and shared 36 stories with us= but was always one of the first to raise her hand when something needed to= be done for the group. Many of the beautiful banners and graphics that we = have been able to share with participants in group events were created by R= oisin. She was a game moderator as well as our graphics designer for Back t= o Middle-earth Month 2010. I know that she created many personalized banner= s and graphics for SWG authors nominated for the MEFAs and other occasions.= She led the charge as well in promoting research and writing about the Sec= ond Age, and the increasing popularity of this era in our community is no d= oubt in a good part due to her efforts. Roisin gave much of herself to this= group and many of the members in it and asked for very little in return. S= he had a creative, generous spirit that is so rare in this world. She was= also a friend to me and many of us here, and I know she will be missed and= mourned. Her SWG profile and the stories she archived with us are up on t= he site here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewuser= .php?uid=3D188 With regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themid= havens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3231 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91564 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2010 01:39:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2010 01:39:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f175.google.com) (209.85.214.175) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2010 01:39:50 -0000 X-Received: by iwn2 with SMTP id 2so4725736iwn.6 for ; Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:39:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.154.75 with SMTP id n11mr7075935ibw.40.1283823589472; Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:39:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.124.41 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Sep 2010 18:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 21:39:49 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0050450156880172f1048fa17953 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "What Would Socrates Say?" Theme Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5-U_sIzCUBVLtoqzNlFLSiYJwmjdB_KsxeK1D4xPa7oOSWwvCsAi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0050450156880172f1048fa17953 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, The compilation for "What Would Socrates Say?" has been posted on our birthday page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/socrates.php In addition, there are three new stories for this theme. In Lady Roisin's "A New Perspective on Love," a young Arwen asks Daeron what it was like to love and marry a mortal: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/perspective.php Russandol's new chapter of her ongoing story "Chasing Mirages," about Eonwe after the War of Wrath, can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/mirages.php And in Lady Roisin's "Lady and Captain," Isildur shows up to sail on a dangerous journey and discovers that the captain isn't quite who he expected: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/lady.php In addition, Silver Trails has sent in a new story for the "Perfect Matches" theme. A crossover with *Highlander,* "You do not wish to live my life" considers a meeting between Maglor and Methos: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/wish.php Today is the last day to send in any older poetry that you'd like to have included in "The Lays of Beleriand Reloaded" theme. The due date for "Into the Woods" is September 8. We are drawing quickly to the end of our birthday celebration as well, so don't forget to get your tokens sent in for your favorite authors and stories! Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0050450156880172f1048fa17953 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

The compilation for "What Would Socrates Say?&quo= t; has been posted on our birthday page:

http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/birthday/socrates.php

In addition, there are three = new stories for this theme. In Lady Roisin's "A New Perspective on= Love," a young Arwen asks Daeron what it was like to love and marry a= mortal:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/perspect= ive.php

Russandol's new chapter of her ongoing story "= Chasing Mirages," about Eonwe after the War of Wrath, can be found her= e:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/mirages.php
And in Lady Roisin's "Lady and Captain," Isildur shows = up to sail on a dangerous journey and discovers that the captain isn't = quite who he expected:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/l= ady.php

In addition, Silver Trails has sent in a new story for = the "Perfect Matches" theme. A crossover with Highlander, = "You do not wish to live my life" considers a meeting between Mag= lor and Methos:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/wish.ph= p

Today is the last day to send in any older poetry that you'= ;d like to have included in "The Lays of Beleriand Reloaded" them= e. The due date for "Into the Woods" is September 8. We are drawi= ng quickly to the end of our birthday celebration as well, so don't for= get to get your tokens sent in for your favorite authors and stories!
<= br>Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fela= gund
http://them= idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0050450156880172f1048fa17953-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3232 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7600 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2010 14:43:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2010 14:43:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pz0-f43.google.com) (209.85.210.43) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2010 14:43:03 -0000 X-Received: by pzk2 with SMTP id 2so26640pzk.30 for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 07:43:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.143.17.12 with SMTP id u12mr24481wfi.55.1284043381726; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 07:43:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.124.41 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Sep 2010 07:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 10:43:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636e0b0dda4de0a048fd4a55f From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "Lays of Beleriand Reloaded" Theme Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xjtYS3dKA2zU2tSQbPj2Ub2yTU8pblhaTKlH8f9Eah0b0iNIemtr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636e0b0dda4de0a048fd4a55f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I have posted the compilation for "The Lays of Beleriand Reloaded," as well as several new poems created for the theme. The compilation, consisting of several lovely poems by SWG poets, is here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/lays.php There are three new poems as well. "I Walked Along Sirion Today," by Beruthiel's Cat: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/sirion.php "Laurelin," a poem by me with an accompanying illumination: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/laurelin.php And "Glorfindel's Dream," a sestina by Esteliel: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/glorfindel.php I have also uploaded a new story that I wrote for "The Songfic That Wasn't" that didn't get finished on time thanks to lots of RL busyness lately. "Reembodied" tells the story of Tata, the first awoken and supposed leader of the Noldor, during the early years of the Elves at Cuivienen: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/reembodied.php The due date for our *final* compilation, "To My Dear," is the 11th. Please send in all older works for that theme before then. New works are welcome for all of the themes at any time! Our birthday celebration is drawing to a close. If you want to award any tokens and have not done so, please do--I will be taking the forms off of the website on Saturday the 18th. Thank you to everyone who has contributed so far. Rhapsody is working on banners for the many of you who contributed in different ways. We should have more on this soon. Finally, a gentle reminder that I will be out of town this weekend. Anything to do with the birthday and anything urgent to do with the group or website should be sent to the mods, not me personally, at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. I will be in a cabin in the mountains and with uncertain Internet access and want to be sure not to miss birthday submissions or other issues that need quick resolution. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636e0b0dda4de0a048fd4a55f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I have posted the compilation for "The Lays of Be= leriand Reloaded," as well as several new poems created for the theme.= The compilation, consisting of several lovely poems by SWG poets, is here:=

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/lays.php

Th= ere are three new poems as well. "I Walked Along Sirion Today," b= y Beruthiel's Cat:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthda= y/sirion.php

"Laurelin," a poem by me with an accompan= ying illumination:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/= laurelin.php

And "Glorfindel's Dream," a sestina b= y Esteliel:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/glorfi= ndel.php

I have also uploaded a new story that I wrote for &quo= t;The Songfic That Wasn't" that didn't get finished on time th= anks to lots of RL busyness lately. "Reembodied" tells the story = of Tata, the first awoken and supposed leader of the Noldor, during the ear= ly years of the Elves at Cuivienen:

http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org/birthday/reembodied.php

The due date for our final<= /i> compilation, "To My Dear," is the 11th. Please send in all ol= der works for that theme before then. New works are welcome for all of the = themes at any time!

Our birthday celebration is drawing to a close.= If you want to award any tokens and have not done so, please do--I will be= taking the forms off of the website on Saturday the 18th. Thank you to eve= ryone who has contributed so far. Rhapsody is working on banners for the ma= ny of you who contributed in different ways. We should have more on this so= on.

Finally, a gentle reminder that I will be out of town this week= end. Anything to do with the birthday and anything urgent to do with the gr= oup or website should be sent to the mods, not me personally, at moderator = AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. I will be in a cabin in the mountains = and with uncertain Internet access and want to be sure not to miss birthday= submissions or other issues that need quick resolution.

Best regar= ds,

Dawn


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
<= a href=3D"http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/">http://themidhavens.= net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636e0b0dda4de0a048fd4a55f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3233 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17855 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2010 23:33:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2010 23:33:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.100) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2010 23:33:46 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.238] by n4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2010 23:33:46 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by t3.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2010 23:33:46 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2010 23:33:46 -0000 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 23:33:44 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: "Into the Woods" Theme Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=gKQ2BYXqbJXoaLORwCVmoQzSUJNLEXkAB8lvmUYp99KrWivIptWt_9Y X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi, everyone, I have posted the compilation for "Into the Woods" and it ho= lds two stories and quite a couple of gorgeous pieces of artwork. The compi= lation which is all about Doriath and its inhabitants, is here: http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/woods.php "To Music of a Pipe Unse= en", is a fantastic piece of art made by Alass=EB where she presents a danc= ing L=FAthien: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/images/alasse/music= .jpg Lady Roisin and Eli have co-written a series of ficlets named Clildre= n of Doriath where both author's explore the bond between L=FAthien and Dae= ron. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/children2.php Pleas= e also have a look at the artwork Lyra made that has been made for the abov= e mentioned story, it's named "Melian's Children": http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/images/oloriel/melians%20children.jpg Lady Roisin wrote a = short story for this theme, in "Lady of the Hunt" she approached the romanc= e story of L=FAthien and Beren from a fresh angle: http://www.silmarillion= writersguild.org/birthday/hunt.php And there is even more artwork: Szilvi= shared twho pictures of painted bottles called 'In the Woods of Neldoreth'= with us: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/images/szilvi/neldoreth.j= pg Then there is also the piece "Daeron in Neldoreth Neldoreth" by the sam= e artist: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/images/szilvi/daeron.jpg = I have also uploaded two new stories that we received the past days for t= he theme "Five Things". "'What is it?'" is a ficlet series written by E=E4r= ill=EB. Someone was cheeky enough to send several things in Arda, and this = piece shows how Adra's inhabitants responded to it: http://www.silmarillio= nwritersguild.org/birthday/whatisit.php If you ever wondered how a friends= hip between Indis and M=EDriel would have looked like, Five meetings would = be an intriguing story to read. Clotho123 explores how would the friendship= have been between Indis and M=EDriel if they had known each other. If you = want to know how that might have looked liked, go here: http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org/birthday/fivemeetings.php The due date for our final= compilation, "To My Dear," is today. So if you have some last minutes exce= rpts for older works to send in, do it soon! New works are welcome for all = of the themes at any time! Our birthday celebration is drawing to a close = next week. If you want to award any tokens and have not done so, please do-= - the forms will be taken off of the website on Saturday the 18th. Thank yo= u to everyone who has contributed so far. Finally, a gentle reminder that= Dawn is still out of town this weekend. Anything to do with the birthday a= nd anything urgent to do with the group or website should be sent to the mo= ds, not Dawn personally, at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. = We're simply uncertain how her internet access will be and the mods want to= be sure not to miss birthday submissions or other issues that need quick r= esolution. Best regards, Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3234 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80311 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2010 13:33:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2010 13:33:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n5-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.101) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2010 13:33:03 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.49] by n5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2010 13:33:02 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by t2.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2010 13:33:02 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2010 13:33:02 -0000 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 13:33:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Addendum to 'Into the woods'-theme X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=SVBaZnvqjZbGVdHyuVmGvdRVhFQ7J0UqgGaBrhEbBEZTgUubCZQejN8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, Two excerpts for 'Into the Woods' have decided to play hide and se= ek to us moderators on this rainy Sunday (for me at least), but I relocated= them and added them to the page for this theme. On behalf of the moderator= team, I'd like to apologise that this happened, but even we have Murphy vi= siting us once a while. The stories and authors affected were Lady Roisin = and her story 'Lady of the Hunt' and Clodia's story 'Blood and Fire'. You c= an find both excerpts on the theme page here: http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org/birthday/woods.php I hope you all have a nice Sunday, Rhapsod= y From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3235 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51598 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2010 13:01:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Sep 2010 13:01:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gy0-f172.google.com) (209.85.160.172) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2010 13:01:49 -0000 X-Received: by gyd12 with SMTP id 12so1391140gyd.31 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:01:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.100.105.3 with SMTP id d3mr617008anc.194.1284382908055; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:01:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.124.41 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:01:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:01:47 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e645b9d4fd7fcf049023b2b2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Addendum to 'Into the woods'-theme X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=3zn01dqQ1BPh_4zG2HtEMFzRsdK9F_k2k2gjUlhsXrr0U8rJizVj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e645b9d4fd7fcf049023b2b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thank you, Rhapsody. I have to take full responsibility for both oopses. :) I had a lot to get ready on Thursday night before leaving for my trip, and I'm afraid that I made these mistakes on the compilation and didn't have time to do a proofread/double-check before sending it off to Rhapsody for posting this weekend. My sincerest apologies to Clodia and Eli; I had no ill intentions, just an overtaxed brain and sausage fingers to boot! :) Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e645b9d4fd7fcf049023b2b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Rhapsody.

I have to take full responsibility for both oop= ses. :) I had a lot to get ready on Thursday night before leaving for my tr= ip, and I'm afraid that I made these mistakes on the compilation and di= dn't have time to do a proofread/double-check before sending it off to = Rhapsody for posting this weekend. My sincerest apologies to Clodia and Eli= ; I had no ill intentions, just an overtaxed brain and sausage fingers to b= oot! :)

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~=
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e645b9d4fd7fcf049023b2b2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3236 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4681 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2010 04:53:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2010 04:53:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f180.google.com) (209.85.214.180) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2010 04:53:14 -0000 X-Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so6297758iwn.25 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 21:53:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.11.197 with SMTP id u5mr6652491ibu.41.1284439991565; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 21:53:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.124.41 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 21:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 00:53:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574b5e6eda93049030fd11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "To My Dear" Theme Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=K5P5tuU3DlaPqHt8DxR7zgzrew_4hAsCrEgO11ZJR9PS20gbakOs X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000325574b5e6eda93049030fd11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone, Our final birthday theme has been posted! "To My Dear" tells= stories in letters, and we have quite a variety collected in our compilati= on here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/dear.php In add= ition, we have two new works posted for this theme. "Fragments of a Letter,= " by Himring, was a communication written by Emeldir and retrieved from a l= orebook: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/fragments.php "= Letters to Calion," by Lady Roisin, collects the letters written between Ta= r-Miriel and Ar-Pharazon during the early days of their courtship: http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/letters.php We have also added a= new story to the "Numenorean Queens" collection. "The Axes of a Soul" by E= =C3=A4rill=C3=AB looks at Tar-Miriel's final moments and her salvation: ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/axes.php And now we begin t= he process of winding down the birthday event. We will continue to accept t= oken awards through Saturday, September 18, so if you'd like to brighten th= e day of a favorite author, please do send your choices! You can either use= the form on the website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday= .php#award Or send your selections in an email to us. A few people have i= nquired as to what exactly we mean when we say that there is no deadline fo= r new works written for the birthday challenge. Does that mean that we'll r= eally accept works indefinitely? Yes it does! We always have a handful of a= uthors whose muses run away with the challenges and turn their idea for a n= ice, concise ficlet into a sprawling novel. We do update compilations for t= his purpose, so as not to leave unfinished stories hanging into the final a= ges of Arda. However, we will be posting the final birthday-related announ= cement in our next newsletter. This will list any stories added to the proj= ect between now and October. After that point, we won't be making announcem= ents for new content added to the birthday site. Given this, I strongly ad= vise anyone interested in contributing to have their new work sent in by th= e end of the month. After this point, traffic to the birthday section of th= e site will likely slacken, and there won't be much benefit to having work = added there, except for any continuations of longer stories, if there are a= ny of those still hanging around out there. It'd be far easier for readers = to find work added to the archive. Finally, I would like to thank the many= of you who made this event a success. If you contributed ideas for themes = or tokens, sent in your older works, wrote newer works, honored your fellow= members with tokens, spread the word about the event, or "only" encouraged= others from the sidelines--thank you. I haven't done a final count of how = many entries we received or how many people participated, but it was a lot,= in excess of my expectations once again, and evidence of how we have reach= ed this five-year milestone and why we can look forward to another five yea= rs! :) Extra special thanks go to my comods, without whom this project wou= ld not have happened. Rhapsody not only took over for me when I was away bu= t answered more than one email along the lines of "OMG HELP!" when I needed= an extra set of hands in coding and putting together compilations. I retur= ned home from both of my trips to find that the birthday event was better o= rganized and more caught up than when I left! (She also managed to find tim= e in there, somehow, to organize our moderator email inbox. If you had seen= the mess that had become, you would know that organizing E=C3=A4 from cosm= ic rubbish required only slightly more patience and fortitude.) Angelica ha= ndled sending most of the token emails and organizing the lists of tokens t= hat were sent out this past weekend. Without both of their help, this proje= ct would not have come off smoothly, if at all. Thank you both for everythi= ng! I hope that everyone enjoys the final theme. Here's to the next five y= ears! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000325574b5e6eda93049030fd11 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Our final birthday theme has been posted! "To My = Dear" tells stories in letters, and we have quite a variety collected = in our compilation here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday= /dear.php

In addition, we have two new works posted for this th= eme. "Fragments of a Letter," by Himring, was a communication wri= tten by Emeldir and retrieved from a lorebook:

http://www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org/birthday/fragments.php

"Letters to Cali= on," by Lady Roisin, collects the letters written between Tar-Miriel a= nd Ar-Pharazon during the early days of their courtship:

http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday/letters.php

We have also ad= ded a new story to the "Numenorean Queens" collection. "The = Axes of a Soul" by E=C3=A4rill=C3=AB looks at Tar-Miriel's final m= oments and her salvation:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthda= y/axes.php

And now we begin the process of winding down the bir= thday event. We will continue to accept token awards through Saturday, Sept= ember 18, so if you'd like to brighten the day of a favorite author, pl= ease do send your choices! You can either use the form on the website:
=
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#award

Or se= nd your selections in an email to us.

A few people have inquired as = to what exactly we mean when we say that there is no deadline for new works= written for the birthday challenge. Does that mean that we'll really a= ccept works indefinitely? Yes it does! We always have a handful of authors = whose muses run away with the challenges and turn their idea for a nice, co= ncise ficlet into a sprawling novel. We do update compilations for this pur= pose, so as not to leave unfinished stories hanging into the final ages of = Arda.

However, we will be posting the final birthday-related announ= cement in our next newsletter. This will list any stories added to the proj= ect between now and October. After that point, we won't be making annou= ncements for new content added to the birthday site.

Given this, I = strongly advise anyone interested in contributing to have their new work se= nt in by the end of the month. After this point, traffic to the birthday se= ction of the site will likely slacken, and there won't be much benefit = to having work added there, except for any continuations of longer stories,= if there are any of those still hanging around out there. It'd be far = easier for readers to find work added to the archive.

Finally, I wo= uld like to thank the many of you who made this event a success. If you con= tributed ideas for themes or tokens, sent in your older works, wrote newer = works, honored your fellow members with tokens, spread the word about the e= vent, or "only" encouraged others from the sidelines--thank you. = I haven't done a final count of how many entries we received or how man= y people participated, but it was a lot, in excess of my expectations once = again, and evidence of how we have reached this five-year milestone and why= we can look forward to another five years! :)

Extra special thanks= go to my comods, without whom this project would not have happened. Rhapso= dy not only took over for me when I was away but answered more than one ema= il along the lines of "OMG HELP!" when I needed an extra set of h= ands in coding and putting together compilations. I returned home from both= of my trips to find that the birthday event was better organized and more = caught up than when I left! (She also managed to find time in there, someho= w, to organize our moderator email inbox. If you had seen the mess that had= become, you would know that organizing E=C3=A4 from cosmic rubbish require= d only slightly more patience and fortitude.) Angelica handled sending most= of the token emails and organizing the lists of tokens that were sent out = this past weekend. Without both of their help, this project would not have = come off smoothly, if at all. Thank you both for everything!

I hope= that everyone enjoys the final theme. Here's to the next five years! := )

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/he= retic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--000325574b5e6eda93049030fd11-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3237 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40557 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2010 13:25:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2010 13:25:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f171.google.com) (209.85.214.171) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2010 13:25:08 -0000 X-Received: by iwn42 with SMTP id 42so13220607iwn.2 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:25:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.191.147 with SMTP id dm19mr8024760ibb.6.1284470708255; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:25:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.124.41 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 09:25:08 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367b6eca4a3ed30490382493 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Was the Elvenking in The Hobbit originally meant to be Thingol, and not Thranduil? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=vsQP5JL8h-WcjFVPCIW5jpe12rTu3CHDl3ubOEhMjYvQ2ss6-UuD X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016367b6eca4a3ed30490382493 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Dreamflower has written a guest post on my weble The Heretic Loremaster comparing some intriguing correspondence between *The Book of Lost Tales *and early drafts of *The Hobbit.* Some of Tolkien's early writings point to the intriguing possibility that he originally considered Thingol for filling the role of Thranduil in *The Hobbit.* She considers the evidence both for and against this, as well as looking generally at how *Silmarillion* mythology showed up in Tolkien's early drafts of *The Hobbit.* We often talk about the obvious connections between the Silm and LotR, but *The Hobbit* tends to be overlooked because there aren't as many connections to the early ages. I found Dreamflower's post interesting for showing how *The Hobbit* might fit more snugly into the mythological framework than the published version suggests. I thought others might be interested in the post too, so here's a link. :) http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/2010/09/was-the-elvenking/ All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016367b6eca4a3ed30490382493 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Dreamflower has written a guest post on my weble The H= eretic Loremaster comparing some intriguing correspondence between The B= ook of Lost Tales and early drafts of The Hobbit. Some of Tolkie= n's early writings point to the intriguing possibility that he original= ly considered Thingol for filling the role of Thranduil in The Hobbit. She considers the evidence both for and against this, as well as looking= generally at how Silmarillion mythology showed up in Tolkien's = early drafts of The Hobbit. We often talk about the obvious connecti= ons between the Silm and LotR, but The Hobbit tends to be overlooked= because there aren't as many connections to the early ages. I found Dr= eamflower's post interesting for showing how The Hobbit might fi= t more snugly into the mythological framework than the published version su= ggests.

I thought others might be interested in the post too, so he= re's a link. :)

http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaste= r/2010/09/was-the-elvenking/

All the best,

Dawn

-= -
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org
--0016367b6eca4a3ed30490382493-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3238 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ejackamack@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51406 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2010 14:39:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2010 14:39:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-mb02.mx.aol.com) (64.12.207.163) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2010 14:39:36 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o8FEdANQ008426 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:39:11 -0400 X-Received: from Ejackamack@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id r.ed7.3bc82dd (55733) for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:39:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com [205.188.170.2]) by cia-md03.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD038-d3884c90da86308; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:39:08 -0400 X-Received: from webmail-m001 (webmail-m001.sim.aol.com [64.12.101.83]) by smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDC028-d3884c90da86308; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:39:02 -0400 References: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:39:02 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 173.190.23.112 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CD22FADFD315CF_1074_13800_webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 32679-STANDARD X-Received: from 173.190.23.112 by webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com (64.12.101.83) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:39:02 -0400 Message-Id: <8CD22FADFC72EEA-1074-A18F@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Ejackamack@aol.com From: ejackamack@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Was the Elvenking in The Hobbit originally meant to be Thingol, and not Thranduil? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97893789; y=NjiRFcxFI8gSf2du_WVfIlwCmSlu8FxwQm4kfSR1XZ0qQ-aN4NJmuuic7uk ----------MB_8CD22FADFD315CF_1074_13800_webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" That was really interesting. Thanks for the link, Dawn! I'll have to find = those books. It's kind of neat to see that The Hobbit developed much as = LOTR did. Isabeau -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Fela= gund To: SWG Sent: Tue, Sep 14, 2010 9:25 am Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] W= as the Elvenking in The Hobbit originally meant to be Thingol, and not Thra= nduil? Hi, everyone, Dreamflower has written = a guest post on my weble The Heretic Loremaster comparing some intriguing c= orrespondence between The Book of Lost Tales and early drafts of The Hobbit= . Some of Tolkien's early writings point to the intriguing possibility that= he originally considered Thingol for filling the role of Thranduil in The = Hobbit. She considers the evidence both for and against this, as well as lo= oking generally at how Silmarillion mythology showed up in Tolkien's early = drafts of The Hobbit. We often talk about the obvious connections between t= he Silm and LotR, but The Hobbit tends to be overlooked because there aren'= t as many connections to the early ages. I found Dreamflower's post interes= ting for showing how The Hobbit might fit more snugly into the mythological= framework than the published version suggests. I thought others might be = interested in the post too, so here's a link. :) http://themidhavens.net/h= eretic_loremaster/2010/09/was-the-elvenking/ All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo= ~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org ----------MB_8CD22FADFD315CF_1074_13800_webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" That was really interesting. Thanks for the link, Dawn= !  I'll have to find those books. 

It's kind of neat to= see that The Hobbit developed much as LOTR did.

Isabeau


=


-----Original Message-----=
From: Dawn Felagund
To: SWG
Sent: Tue, Sep 14, 2010 9:= 25 am
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Was the Elvenking in The Hob= bit originally meant to be Thingol, and not Thranduil?

 
=
Hi, everyone,
Dreamflower has written a guest post on my weble The Heretic Loremaster = comparing some intriguing correspondence between The Book of Lost Tales = and early drafts of The Hobbit. Some of Tolkien's early writings= point to the intriguing possibility that he originally considered Thingol = for filling the role of Thranduil in The Hobbit. She considers the e= vidence both for and against this, as well as looking generally at how S= ilmarillion mythology showed up in Tolkien's early drafts of The Hob= bit. We often talk about the obvious connections between the Silm and L= otR, but The Hobbit tends to be overlooked because there aren't as m= any connections to the early ages. I found Dreamflower's post interesting f= or showing how The Hobbit might fit more snugly into the mythologica= l framework than the published version suggests.

I thought othe= rs might be interested in the post too, so here's a link. :)

http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/2010/09/wa= s-the-elvenking/

All the best,

Dawn

-= -
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorema= ster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
=
----------MB_8CD22FADFD315CF_1074_13800_webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3239 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75908 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2010 16:58:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2010 16:58:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iw0-f180.google.com) (209.85.214.180) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2010 16:58:02 -0000 X-Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so3803373iwn.25 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 09:58:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.11.130 with SMTP id t2mr7148475ibt.154.1284829081702; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 09:58:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.32.9 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 09:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 12:58:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555713a0312c504908b956d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Birthday Banners X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ZsJdLy6VFhmjAJ-CfgVS9cYID8nUlt3up289SuNJuYbHScogmGfb X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00032555713a0312c504908b956d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Rhapsody has created beautiful banners for participants in our birthday event or for anyone who wishes to commemorate our 5th birthday. I just added them to our webpage here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#banners You can either save the banner you want to your own image host (Photobucket, LJ Scrapbook, etc.), or copy the code beneath the banner and paste it anywhere HTML is accepted. Banners are for anyone who wants to take one, so enjoy! :) Also, a reminder that today is the last day to send in choices for tokens, so if you have not sent in your selections, there is very little time left! I will be out most of today and probably won't feel like updating the webpage when I return home tonight, but by this time tomorrow, the token form will likely be off of the webpage. You can either use the form on the website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#award Or email your choices to us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Many thanks again to everyone who participated! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00032555713a0312c504908b956d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Rhapsody has created beautiful banners for participant= s in our birthday event or for anyone who wishes to commemorate our 5th bir= thday. I just added them to our webpage here:

http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/birthday.php#banners

You can either save the ba= nner you want to your own image host (Photobucket, LJ Scrapbook, etc.), or = copy the code beneath the banner and paste it anywhere HTML is accepted. Ba= nners are for anyone who wants to take one, so enjoy! :)

Also, a re= minder that today is the last day to send in choices for tokens, so if you = have not sent in your selections, there is very little time left! I will be= out most of today and probably won't feel like updating the webpage wh= en I return home tonight, but by this time tomorrow, the token form will li= kely be off of the webpage. You can either use the form on the website:
=
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/birthday.php#award

Or e= mail your choices to us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.
Many thanks again to everyone who participated! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org
--00032555713a0312c504908b956d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3240 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74544 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2010 13:29:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Sep 2010 13:29:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw0-f50.google.com) (74.125.83.50) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2010 13:29:44 -0000 X-Received: by gwaa20 with SMTP id a20so1373226gwa.9 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 06:29:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.90.82.17 with SMTP id f17mr5311160agb.141.1284989383272; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 06:29:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.231.32.9 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 06:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:29:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016361e8960baecf40490b0e77c From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month 2011 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Q2csJlMn-ihuIv6bZUs2iKsiI6SMOgLp_GI8GWKkCwLGLmE2hWUD X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016361e8960baecf40490b0e77c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Every March, the SWG hosts an event for Back to Middle-earth Month. So why am I bringing this up now, in September? Especially right on the heels of the birthday event?? Next March, I will be in the midst of my student-teaching internship. I don't expect to have a life at all for those three months, much less time for web-related activities, so I am getting March's event together now so that it's ready to go, and all I or my comods have to do is upload the correct pages each day. Given that, we are seeking ideas about what to do for this year's event, so if there's something you'd really like to do (or not do), please do let us know. Considering my schedule, the event will have to be rather low-impact from an administrative perspective (i.e., it will *not* be like last year's admin-intensive event! :) We're open to all ideas, and even if we decide that we can't use a particular idea this year, that doesn't mean it won't be out of consideration for future years. Comments are welcome here, or you can email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org to share your ideas. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016361e8960baecf40490b0e77c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Every March, the SWG hosts an event for Back to Middle= -earth Month. So why am I bringing this up now, in September? Especially ri= ght on the heels of the birthday event??

Next March, I will be in th= e midst of my student-teaching internship. I don't expect to have a lif= e at all for those three months, much less time for web-related activities,= so I am getting March's event together now so that it's ready to g= o, and all I or my comods have to do is upload the correct pages each day.<= br>
Given that, we are seeking ideas about what to do for this year'= ;s event, so if there's something you'd really like to do (or not d= o), please do let us know. Considering my schedule, the event will have to = be rather low-impact from an administrative perspective (i.e., it will n= ot be like last year's admin-intensive event! :) We're open to = all ideas, and even if we decide that we can't use a particular idea th= is year, that doesn't mean it won't be out of consideration for fut= ure years.

Comments are welcome here, or you can email us at modera= tor AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org to share your ideas.

Best re= gards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.n= et/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016361e8960baecf40490b0e77c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3241 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 91848 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2010 17:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2010 17:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2010 17:46:53 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1285782412; bh=1wa6w4B+yFMc0JWK7mYKeQ1+gicvGHtOvAWs+TtYJyA=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=ULP6U4qO6Rb9eT9QNG3oqGzdmimPkoD7jtYxFK/yShwHL5oH8CrW7QGRVvpe4L/S96WjDtm3MNVbDyTIlq90mXS5hLgj5WYNu/LAycqmbI0Nvs4d0DR6F70eja0rgvwd Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Sep 2010 17:46:52 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Sep 2010 17:46:52 -0000 X-Sender: sargentsnarky@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66762 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2010 17:04:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2010 17:04:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2010 17:04:16 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Sep 2010 17:04:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Sep 2010 17:04:16 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:04:16 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="2-2963235745-3003973860=:2" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system From: "sargentsnarky" Subject: Greetings & Questions Regarding the Sentience of Objects X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=466916323; y=as_c_R5xSsK98PjN69laUGO5rLtmbX6sGIiyKgdBoVNH-iJ_UFkO4Q X-Yahoo-Profile: sargentsnarky X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 29 Sep 2010 17:46:51 -0000 --2-2963235745-3003973860=:2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's to hoping I'm doing this right. :) This purpose of this post is two= fold: I with to introduce myself and say hello, and I wish to pick people's= brains about normally inanimate objects and their sentience (or lack there= of) in Tolkien's writings. So first with the introductions! Hello~! Thank= you for letting me join! :) I'm Sargent Snarky - or Snarky, for short. The= misspelling of sergeant is intentional. ;) I'm currently a college studen= t in America, majoring in Biology with a minor in Japanese (I hope to study= insects at some point), and I was first introduced to J.R.R. Tolkien's wri= tings by my older brother when I was five or six. He read me The Hobbit and= Roverandom one summer, though it wasn't until sixth grade that I actually = sat down and read first LotR, which I liked well enough, and then my mother= and I listened to the audiobook version of The Silmarillion, which I fell = in love with, and the rest is, er... history? There are so many wonderful = characters in the Silmarillion, but I have a particular fondness for Finw= =EB, his wives and their many descendants (especially the Feanorion branch)= . And I spend a good deal more time writing and drawing fanworks (though mo= st of them remain on my hard drive or in notebooks) than perhaps I should, = but it's cheaper than other hobbies? Which brings me to my questions... I= would happily research this myself, except that I do not actually have acc= ess to any of the HoME volumes or the Silmarillion itself at school, so I h= ope you don't mind my poking at you guys. :) I'm attempting to gather inf= ormation about sentient objects in Middle Earth (or, well... all of Arda, r= eally). The objects I know are described as at least somewhat sentient are = as follows: - The Silmarils - The One Ring - Anglachel/Gurthang (and I woul= d presume that its mate, Anguirel?) Are there more? What is the nature of = their sentience? Do they have complete wills of their own? Or do they only= have what you might call 'prime directives' and certain pre-programmed res= ponses to stimuli? Would objects like Sting count as semi-sentient in that= they can apparently tell when there are evil things nearby? Or is that sim= ply clever spell programming by their makers? And if it is clever programm= ing, does that extend back to objects like the Silmarils or the One Ring? T= hat they simply have certain more complex 'encoded' within whatever they w= ere made of? Or do they have souls of their own? If they have souls of a = sort of their own, where does that come from? In the case of the One Ring, = I'd argue that whatever sentience it has is directly due to the fact that i= t was invested with part of Sauron's soul when he made it. And I would pres= ume that part of Feanor's soul certainly went into the Silmarils and part o= f Eol's soul went into Anglachel. And furthermore, I'd argue that perhaps = this is the central reason why creators in the realm of Arda truly cannot r= eplicate their greatest works -- because part of their soul - or I suppose = I should use the term f=EBa - goes into that work and cannot be gotten back= , nor can an identical portion of soul be invested into a new duplicate obj= ect. --- But this is just my view on this question. What are yours? Would= you say that all objects into which a creator put some of him or herself w= ere sentient to some degree? And secondary to the idea of crafted object= s having sentience... what of natural objects? Or would they also be consi= dered crafted objects, but simply by Valar instead of any 'lesser' creator?= For example, I remember in LotR, when the Fellowship is tromping through = Eregion/Hollin, Legolas makes a comment about how only the rocks still reme= mber the Elves who'd lived there long ago. Does that mean that even rocks = in Arda are sentient? Also, what of plants? Trees seem to have some sort o= f voices to them and can be 'woken up', which implies sentience. Does this = apply to all plants? Moss? Mold? Fungi, which are not really plants? I su= ppose what I'm really asking is... What is the nature of sentience in Arda?= Thank you for your time. :) --2-2963235745-3003973860=:2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's to hoping I'm doing this right. :)

This purpose of this post = is twofold: I with to introduce myself and say hello, and I wish to pick pe= ople's brains about normally inanimate objects and their sentience (or lack= thereof) in Tolkien's writings.

So first with the introductions!&nb= sp; Hello~! Thank you for letting me join! :)
I'm Sargent Snarky - or Sn= arky, for short. The misspelling of sergeant is intentional. ;)

I'm = currently a college student in America, majoring in Biology with a minor in= Japanese (I hope to study insects at some point), and I was first introduc= ed to J.R.R. Tolkien's writings by my older brother when I was five or six.= He read me The Hobbit and Roverandom one summer, though it w= asn't until sixth grade that I actually sat down and read first LotR, which= I liked well enough, and then my mother and I listened to the audiobook ve= rsion of The Silmarillion, which I fell in love with, and the rest i= s, er... history?

There are so many wonderful characters in the Silm= arillion, but I have a particular fondness for Finw=EB, his wives and their= many descendants (especially the Feanorion branch). And I spend a good dea= l more time writing and drawing fanworks (though most of them remain on my = hard drive or in notebooks) than perhaps I should, but it's cheaper than ot= her hobbies?

Which brings me to my questions...

I would happi= ly research this myself, except that I do not actually have access to any o= f the HoME volumes or the Silmarillion itself at school, so I hope you don'= t mind my poking  at you guys. :)

I'm attempting to gather info= rmation about sentient objects in Middle Earth (or, well... all of A= rda, really). The objects I know are described as at least somewhat = sentient are as follows:
- The Silmarils
- The One Ring
- Anglache= l/Gurthang (and I would presume that its mate, Anguirel?)

Are there = more? What is the nature of their sentience?  Do they have complete wi= lls of their own? Or do they only have what you might call 'prime directive= s' and certain pre-programmed responses to stimuli?

Would objects li= ke Sting count as semi-sentient in that they can apparently tell when there= are evil things nearby? Or is that simply clever spell programming by thei= r makers?  And if it is clever programming, does that extend back to o= bjects like the Silmarils or the One Ring? That they simply  have cert= ain more complex 'encoded' within whatever they were made of?  Or do t= hey have souls of their own?

If they have souls of a sort of their o= wn, where does that come from?
In the case of the One Ring, I'd argue th= at whatever sentience it has is directly due to the fact that it was invest= ed with part of Sauron's soul when he made it. And I would presume that par= t of Feanor's soul certainly went into the Silmarils and part of Eol's soul= went into Anglachel.  And furthermore, I'd argue that perhaps this is= the central reason why creators in the realm of Arda truly cannot replicat= e their greatest works -- because part of their soul - or I suppose I shoul= d use the term f=EBa - goes into that work and cannot be gotten back, nor c= an an identical portion of soul be invested into a new duplicate object.&nb= sp; --- But this is just my view on this question.  What are yours?Would you say that all objects into which a creator put some of him or her= self were sentient to some degree?



And secondary to the idea= of crafted objects having sentience... what of natural objects?  Or w= ould they also be considered crafted objects, but simply by Valar instead o= f any 'lesser' creator?

For example, I remember in LotR, when the Fe= llowship is tromping through Eregion/Hollin, Legolas makes a comment about = how only the rocks still remember the Elves who'd lived there long ago.&nbs= p; Does that mean that even rocks in Arda are sentient?
Also, what of pl= ants?  Trees seem to have some sort of voices to them and can be 'woke= n up', which implies sentience. Does this apply to all plants? Moss? Mold? = Fungi, which are not really plants?


I suppose what I'm really as= king is... What is the nature of sentience in Arda?=

Thank you for your time. :)
--2-2963235745-3003973860=:2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3242 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11344 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2010 19:19:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m12.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2010 19:19:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gy0-f179.google.com) (209.85.160.179) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2010 19:19:59 -0000 X-Received: by gyh4 with SMTP id 4so729635gyh.10 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:19:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.90.36.8 with SMTP id j8mr835031agj.187.1285787998302; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:19:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.224.16 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:19:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:19:58 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016362837e8e5315904916ad8c3 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Greetings & Questions Regarding the Sentience of Objects X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=jVRS72NdpttcKx2NW-H7OuZKM48CEg80nwWONUjxos7ZylsynY9C X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016362837e8e5315904916ad8c3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Snarky, I wanted to welcome you officially to the Yahoo group! We're rather laid-back here, so you've done everything exactly right in posting. :) I may have a go at your questions later--RL has been a little wild lately in the House of Felagund--but I know too that there are some here who are waaay more qualified than me to answer them as well, so I'm hoping they share some thoughts and kick a little life back into our Yahoo group. :) Also, I do have a digital copy of *The Silmarillion,* if you're interested. It's not so good for settling down to read--at least, I don't find cuddling a computer that comfortable ;)--but it's good at least for looking stuff up when you're without your books. I kept one with me for many years at work when I actually had a workplace that wasn't home, and it came in handy many times. (Now that I work from home, that's not an issue. My *Silmarillion* is currently one foot away from me on my desk. Things are as they should be. :) Anyway, please just email me off-list if you're interested! Welcome again and please let me or one of my comods know if you need anything! :) Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016362837e8e5315904916ad8c3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Snarky,

I wanted to welcome you officially to the Yahoo group! W= e're rather laid-back here, so you've done everything exactly right= in posting. :)

I may have a go at your questions later--RL has been= a little wild lately in the House of Felagund--but I know too that there a= re some here who are waaay more qualified than me to answer them as well, s= o I'm hoping they share some thoughts and kick a little life back into = our Yahoo group. :)

Also, I do have a digital copy of The Silmar= illion, if you're interested. It's not so good for settling dow= n to read--at least, I don't find cuddling a computer that comfortable = ;)--but it's good at least for looking stuff up when you're without= your books. I kept one with me for many years at work when I actually had = a workplace that wasn't home, and it came in handy many times. (Now tha= t I work from home, that's not an issue. My Silmarillion is curr= ently one foot away from me on my desk. Things are as they should be. :) An= yway, please just email me off-list if you're interested!

Welco= me again and please let me or one of my comods know if you need anything! := )

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Daw= n Felagund
http:= //themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016362837e8e5315904916ad8c3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3243 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15743 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2010 22:21:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2010 22:21:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f182.google.com) (209.85.216.182) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2010 22:21:16 -0000 X-Received: by qyk7 with SMTP id 7so1953890qyk.13 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:21:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.60.213 with SMTP id q21mr1747417qah.81.1285798876026; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from Telperion1 (ool-457c028c.dyn.optonline.net [69.124.2.140]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t1sm9988497qcs.45.2010.09.29.15.21.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:21:15 -0700 (PDT) To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:21:09 -0400 Message-ID: <062f01cb6024$9ee26f40$dca74dc0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQI59LUq1K03K019Ci9U7o+5LkKIoZJMXD7g Content-Language: en-us From: "Marta" Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Greetings & Questions Regarding the Sentience of Objects X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=xrnMpk4Y9Ex8_-m2UfvygBj_UthjEYQjhC2xHSkpQtIxk3UOFlTJqA X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hiya Snarky, I don't have time to research this thoroughly, unfortunately,= but I think there were some swords that talked to their bearers. Turin's j= umps to mind. But that was perhaps meant more metaphorically than literally= . One thing worth thinking about might be: what makes *anything* sentient?= Think about the creation story of the dwarves - how they could only move w= hen Aule turned his thoughts to each of them individually. It seems the Val= ar could make physical objects but not intelligences, the part of something= that let it choose how to act. So I'd say only the Children (Men + Hobbit= s + Elves) and those things specifically given self-awareness by Iluvatar (= Ents + Dwarves) would be aware of themselves. But then, some animals seem = capable of choosing, too, at least in a limited sense. *shrugs* So maybe th= is isn't the right track to take after all... Marta > -----Original Messa= ge----- > From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Silmaril= lionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > sargentsnarky > Sent: Wedn= esday, September 29, 2010 1:04 PM > To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroup= s.com > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Greetings & Questions Regarding= the > Sentience of Objects > > > > Here's to hoping I'm doing this righ= t. :) > > This purpose of this post is twofold: I with to introduce myself= and say hello, > and I wish to pick people's brains about normally inanima= te objects and their > sentience (or lack thereof) in Tolkien's writings. >= > So first with the introductions! Hello~! Thank you for letting me join= ! :) I'm > Sargent Snarky - or Snarky, for short. The misspelling of sergea= nt is > intentional. ;) > > I'm currently a college student in America, ma= joring in Biology with a minor in > Japanese (I hope to study insects at so= me point), and I was first introduced > to J.R.R. Tolkien's writings by my = older brother when I was five or six. He read > me The Hobbit and Roverando= m one summer, though it wasn't until sixth > grade that I actually sat down= and read first LotR, which I liked well enough, > and then my mother and I= listened to the audiobook version of The > Silmarillion, which I fell in l= ove with, and the rest is, er... history? > > There are so many wonderful = characters in the Silmarillion, but I have a > particular fondness for Finw= =EB, his wives and their many descendants > (especially the Feanorion branc= h). And I spend a good deal more time writing > and drawing fanworks (thoug= h most of them remain on my hard drive or in > notebooks) than perhaps I sh= ould, but it's cheaper than other hobbies? > > Which brings me to my quest= ions... > > I would happily research this myself, except that I do not act= ually have access > to any of the HoME volumes or the Silmarillion itself a= t school, so I hope you > don't mind my poking at you guys. :) > > I'm at= tempting to gather information about sentient objects in Middle Earth > (or= , well... all of Arda, really). The objects I know are described as at leas= t > somewhat sentient are as follows: > - The Silmarils > - The One Ring > = - Anglachel/Gurthang (and I would presume that its mate, Anguirel?) > > Ar= e there more? What is the nature of their sentience? Do they have > comple= te wills of their own? Or do they only have what you might call 'prime > di= rectives' and certain pre-programmed responses to stimuli? > > Would objec= ts like Sting count as semi-sentient in that they can apparently > tell whe= n there are evil things nearby? Or is that simply clever spell > programmin= g by their makers? And if it is clever programming, does that > extend bac= k to objects like the Silmarils or the One Ring? That they simply > have ce= rtain more complex 'encoded' within whatever they were made of? > Or do the= y have souls of their own? > > If they have souls of a sort of their own, = where does that come from? > In the case of the One Ring, I'd argue that wh= atever sentience it has is > directly due to the fact that it was invested = with part of Sauron's soul when > he made it. And I would presume that part= of Feanor's soul certainly went > into the Silmarils and part of Eol's sou= l went into Anglachel. And > furthermore, I'd argue that perhaps this is t= he central reason why creators in > the realm of Arda truly cannot replicat= e their greatest works -- because part > of their soul - or I suppose I sho= uld use the term f=EBa - goes into that work and > cannot be gotten back, n= or can an identical portion of soul be invested into a > new duplicate obje= ct. --- But this is just my view on this question. What are > yours? > Wou= ld you say that all objects into which a creator put some of him or herself= > were sentient to some degree? > > > > And secondary to the idea of cr= afted objects having sentience... what of > natural objects? Or would they= also be considered crafted objects, but > simply by Valar instead of any '= lesser' creator? > > For example, I remember in LotR, when the Fellowship = is tromping through > Eregion/Hollin, Legolas makes a comment about how onl= y the rocks still > remember the Elves who'd lived there long ago. Does th= at mean that even > rocks in Arda are sentient? > Also, what of plants? Tr= ees seem to have some sort of voices to them and > can be 'woken up', which= implies sentience. Does this apply to all plants? > Moss? Mold? Fungi, whi= ch are not really plants? > > > I suppose what I'm really asking is... Wh= at is the nature of sentience in Arda? > > Thank you for your time. :) > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3244 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27383 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2010 04:24:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2010 04:24:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw0-f43.google.com) (74.125.83.43) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2010 04:24:55 -0000 X-Received: by gwb19 with SMTP id 19so295605gwb.30 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 21:24:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.90.26.4 with SMTP id 4mr2290063agz.150.1285993494417; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 21:24:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.224.16 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 21:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 00:24:54 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163630f23d6b132204919ab157 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: October 2010 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xOzY-NzQjpHo9fhB8LaEslYTjd2WpUEr-UMLlYEGdgrivLws7nLv X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163630f23d6b132204919ab157 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I'm a bit past the deadline of getting the newsletter up on the first of the month (by my time, anyway), but there's lots of content this month, so I hope it will be worth the slight delay! :) http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/october2010.php Continuing the theme she started last month with her biography of Aegnor, Oshun has written a biography of Angrod, the brother whom Aegnor is rarely without in the text. However, reading the two bios consecutively, one can see how different, in fact, Tolkien made the characters. Oshun ferrets out a distinctive personality for Angrod communicated by clues in the text. Linguistic Foolery returns this month with "Fact, Interpretation, and the Hard Burden of Proof." We have several months now of LF articles drawing on Tolkien's word lists to suggest possible interpretations of Elven culture. So what does one do with that exactly? Darth Fingon considers the broader implications of interpretations based on various textual sources and how they apply (or don't) to Elven cultures in general. In honor of Halloween, Pandemonium has drawn a Gothmog & Draugluin comment featuring special guest, "Stinky Pete" Meshugganascar, Maia of Mandos and revealing Manwe's very special Halloween costume! Also, we've added the ability to comment on newsletter comics, past and present! In addition to the columns, Rhapsody has put together a comprehensive list of all of the stories added, updated, and completed on the archive. If you're looking for something to read, this is a great place to start. We also have news from within SWG and a few announcements from groups outside of SWG that might interest our members. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/october2010.php Enjoy! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163630f23d6b132204919ab157 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I'm a bit past the deadline of getting the newslet= ter up on the first of the month (by my time, anyway), but there's lots= of content this month, so I hope it will be worth the slight delay! :)
=
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/october2010.php

= Continuing the theme she started last month with her biography of Aegnor, O= shun has written a biography of Angrod, the brother whom Aegnor is rarely w= ithout in the text. However, reading the two bios consecutively, one can se= e how different, in fact, Tolkien made the characters. Oshun ferrets out a = distinctive personality for Angrod communicated by clues in the text.
<= br>Linguistic Foolery returns this month with "Fact, Interpretation, a= nd the Hard Burden of Proof." We have several months now of LF article= s drawing on Tolkien's word lists to suggest possible interpretations o= f Elven culture. So what does one do with that exactly? Darth Fingon consid= ers the broader implications of interpretations based on various textual so= urces and how they apply (or don't) to Elven cultures in general.
<= br>In honor of Halloween, Pandemonium has drawn a Gothmog & Draugluin c= omment featuring special guest, "Stinky Pete" Meshugganascar, Mai= a of Mandos and revealing Manwe's very special Halloween costume! Also,= we've added the ability to comment on newsletter comics, past and pres= ent!

In addition to the columns, Rhapsody has put together a compre= hensive list of all of the stories added, updated, and completed on the arc= hive. If you're looking for something to read, this is a great place to= start. We also have news from within SWG and a few announcements from grou= ps outside of SWG that might interest our members.

http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org/news/october2010.php

Enjoy! :)

Dawn=

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorema= ster/
http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00163630f23d6b132204919ab157-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3245 Return-Path: X-Sender: xjay2@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99235 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2010 22:16:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2010 22:16:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2010 22:16:25 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Oct 2010 22:16:25 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Oct 2010 22:16:25 -0000 Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 22:16:24 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "moreth00" Subject: Re: Greetings & Questions Regarding the Sentience of Objects X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298943507; y=PmY82ny812zrYAMnK7gs_V9MCoqTNdFlj0sdOJo7wKT5KM0 X-Yahoo-Profile: moreth00 Hi snarky :D Now that is one of the most interesting questions I've seen..= . If stones are sentient, are swords? Trees such as Old Man Willow are v= ery clearly sentient. At the other extreme (oddly enough) the Silmarils see= m far less so - they don't actually seem to suffer pain or grief during the= ir turbulent history! I'll be going away and thinking about this. My back-= stop answer is: Things are as sentient as you want them to be! On the one= hand, I would buy a story told from the POV of the moss in Fangorn Forest = :D On the other, I'm not convinced Sting is truly sentient; it seems more l= ike clever programming to me. Sting is certainly not 'sentient' in the sam= e way Stormbringer (Elric Saga - M. Moorcock) is supposed to be. I'm not a= ware of anything in HoME that sheds any light on a unified approach within = Tolkien's writing. Maybe there's some fun research to do there... :D Thank= s for the fascinating question! Moreth --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@y= ahoogroups.com, "sargentsnarky" wrote: > > Here's to ho= ping I'm doing this right. :) > > This purpose of this post is twofold: I = with to introduce myself and say > hello, and I wish to pick people's brain= s about normally inanimate > objects and their sentience (or lack thereof) = in Tolkien's writings. > > So first with the introductions! Hello~! Thank= you for letting me join! > :) > I'm Sargent Snarky - or Snarky, for short.= The misspelling of sergeant > is intentional. ;) > > I'm currently a coll= ege student in America, majoring in Biology with a > minor in Japanese (I h= ope to study insects at some point), and I was > first introduced to J.R.R.= Tolkien's writings by my older brother when I > was five or six. He read m= e The Hobbit and Roverandom one summer, though > it wasn't until sixth grad= e that I actually sat down and read first > LotR, which I liked well enough= , and then my mother and I listened to > the audiobook version of The Silma= rillion, which I fell in love with, > and the rest is, er... history? > > = There are so many wonderful characters in the Silmarillion, but I have a > = particular fondness for Finw=EB, his wives and their many descendants > (es= pecially the Feanorion branch). And I spend a good deal more time > writing= and drawing fanworks (though most of them remain on my hard > drive or in = notebooks) than perhaps I should, but it's cheaper than > other hobbies? > = > Which brings me to my questions... > > I would happily research this my= self, except that I do not actually have > access to any of the HoME volume= s or the Silmarillion itself at school, > so I hope you don't mind my pokin= g at you guys. :) > > I'm attempting to gather information about sentient= objects in Middle > Earth (or, well... all of Arda, really). The objects I= know are > described as at least somewhat sentient are as follows: > - The= Silmarils > - The One Ring > - Anglachel/Gurthang (and I would presume tha= t its mate, Anguirel?) > > Are there more? What is the nature of their sen= tience? Do they have > complete wills of their own? Or do they only have w= hat you might call > 'prime directives' and certain pre-programmed response= s to stimuli? > > Would objects like Sting count as semi-sentient in that = they can > apparently tell when there are evil things nearby? Or is that si= mply > clever spell programming by their makers? And if it is clever > pro= gramming, does that extend back to objects like the Silmarils or the > One = Ring? That they simply have certain more complex 'encoded' within > whatev= er they were made of? Or do they have souls of their own? > > If they hav= e souls of a sort of their own, where does that come from? > In the case of= the One Ring, I'd argue that whatever sentience it has is > directly due t= o the fact that it was invested with part of Sauron's soul > when he made i= t. And I would presume that part of Feanor's soul > certainly went into the= Silmarils and part of Eol's soul went into > Anglachel. And furthermore, = I'd argue that perhaps this is the central > reason why creators in the rea= lm of Arda truly cannot replicate their > greatest works -- because part of= their soul - or I suppose I should use > the term f=EBa - goes into that w= ork and cannot be gotten back, nor can > an identical portion of soul be in= vested into a new duplicate object. > --- But this is just my view on this= question. What are yours? > Would you say that all objects into which a c= reator put some of him or > herself were sentient to some degree? > > > = > And secondary to the idea of crafted objects having sentience... what of = > natural objects? Or would they also be considered crafted objects, but >= simply by Valar instead of any 'lesser' creator? > > For example, I remem= ber in LotR, when the Fellowship is tromping through > Eregion/Hollin, Lego= las makes a comment about how only the rocks still > remember the Elves who= 'd lived there long ago. Does that mean that even > rocks in Arda are sent= ient? > Also, what of plants? Trees seem to have some sort of voices to th= em > and can be 'woken up', which implies sentience. Does this apply to all= > plants? Moss? Mold? Fungi, which are not really plants? > > > I suppos= e what I'm really asking is... What is the nature of sentience > in Arda? >= > Thank you for your time. :) > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3246 Return-Path: X-Sender: sargentsnarky@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28508 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2010 00:50:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Oct 2010 00:50:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Oct 2010 00:50:18 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2010 00:50:18 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2010 00:50:18 -0000 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 00:50:18 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "sargentsnarky" Subject: Re: Greetings & Questions Regarding the Sentience of Objects X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=466916323; y=6b5FUJoeVgGbSa6Oq9Wz7cCIaJaEGwuYt2jZXmtpttXknVF2nMAyoA X-Yahoo-Profile: sargentsnarky Thank you all very much for the welcome! :) I'm really looking for any sor= ts of answers to my questions, whether just personal theories and speculati= on or actual lines from any of the source material or well -- anything on t= he subject, really! So, truly, thanks for taking the time to look at the qu= estion and think about it. :) Also, my apologies for taking so long to rep= ly to all of this =96 exams, labs and midterms have kept me quite busy, tho= ugh it's fall break, now, so when I go home tomorrow, I'll have more time t= o devote to actually doing a bit of research. But to avoid this being a re= latively pointless reply=85 Looking through several online dictionaries fo= r definitions of `sentience,' I've come to the conclusion that to speak of = sentience means you are speaking of one of several things: -> general aware= ness (though whether self-awareness or just a perception of things outside= the self is meant) -> perception of and response to the senses, whatever t= hose might be for a given being -> consciousness -> some combination of the= above So=85 to answer the question about what makes anything sentient, th= at really depends on how you're choosing to define sentience. :) So, as Mo= reth suggests, maybe things really are only as sentient as you want them to= be. - Snarky From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3247 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55331 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2010 22:02:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Oct 2010 22:02:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gy0-f171.google.com) (209.85.160.171) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Oct 2010 22:02:19 -0000 X-Received: by gyh20 with SMTP id 20so1642632gyh.30 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2010 15:02:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.90.55.2 with SMTP id d2mr2397627aga.204.1287525738943; Tue, 19 Oct 2010 15:02:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.66.19 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Oct 2010 15:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 18:02:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ed97a4f167f0492ff729b From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Create for Life X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0Ih1MqijCNFb4epana3OFBAsiEzZ6l0o0T6VKL6SqJxERw1rzuKp X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364ed97a4f167f0492ff729b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, This past spring and summer, Roisin told me that she wanted to put together a creative project like the kind we frequently do on the SWG in order to raise awareness about cancer and earn donations toward cancer research. She came up with the idea of an event patterned after Relay for Life, aptly called Create for Life. We were on the verge of starting the event when she got really sick, and she sadly didn't live to see it happen. Her husband Eli and I have been carrying on working on CfL in her absence. Roisin would have been 30 years old on the 12th of November, so we scheduled the event for that weekend. Our hope with CfL is that it will allow creative people--writers, artists, craftspeople, musicians--practice their art forms in honor of a good cause, in memory of those we've lost to cancer, and in solidarity with those who continue to fight this terrible disease. We've kept participation options flexible and welcome anyone who wants to participate. I'll paste the officialish announcement below. I hope to "see" some of you on the weekend of the 12th! :) Please do pass this announcement along to other individuals and groups who may be interested. Best regards, Dawn ---- Create for Life is the idea and dream of Lady Roisin, a writer, artist, and costume designer who also happened to have cancer. Roisin wanted to provide a means for the creative community to promote cancer awareness and raise money for a cure. Although she didn't live to see her dream come fully to life, her husband Eli and her friend Dawn are going ahead with the event in her memory, in memory of all other loved ones lost to cancer, and in hope that we will one day see an end to the shadow this disease casts on our lives. http://community.livejournal.com/create_for_life/profile Create for Life is inspired by Relay for Life. During the weekend of November 12 through 14, participating artists, writers, musicians, and craftspeople will practice the crafts they love in support of a cancer awareness and research. There are several ways to participate. Similar to how Relay for Life works, participants can seek sponsors for their projects, who agree to donate to the American Cancer Society or a similar charity for progress made on a CfL project. For example, an author might ask for a donation for every 1,000 words she writes over the weekend. A knitter might ask for a donation for every scarf she knits. Flat donations to ACS by sponsors are, of course, more than welcome as well. Artisans who sell their creations may wish to sell or auction work created that weekend with proceeds going to ACS, as another means to participate. However, donations are not the only way to participate. Awareness is just as important, and CfL participants are encouraged to post about their projects on their blogs, Facebook, Twitter, and related sites to increase cancer awareness. All types of artistic projects are welcome. You do not have to commit to any minimum time spent or donations made for the event. Simply set aside some time that weekend to spend doing what you love for a great cause! Create for Life has a LiveJournal community with more information, a place to ask questions, and a forum for sharing your project ideas with fellow participants. http://community.livejournal.com/create_for_life/profile Whether you're able to participate this year or not, we greatly appreciate help passing the word about the event to other individuals and groups who may be interested in getting involved. We are just two people without any marketing specialists to help us get the word out! Please follow the rules on any groups you post to and remember that spam hurts--not helps--our cause. If you are a member of LiveJournal, please do join the community and, if you are participating, come share your ideas with us! Best regards, Eli and Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364ed97a4f167f0492ff729b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

This past spring and summer, Roisin told me that she w= anted to put together a creative project like the kind we frequently do on = the SWG in order to raise awareness about cancer and earn donations toward = cancer research. She came up with the idea of an event patterned after Rela= y for Life, aptly called Create for Life. We were on the verge of starting = the event when she got really sick, and she sadly didn't live to see it= happen.

Her husband Eli and I have been carrying on working on CfL= in her absence. Roisin would have been 30 years old on the 12th of Novembe= r, so we scheduled the event for that weekend.

Our hope with CfL is = that it will allow creative people--writers, artists, craftspeople, musicia= ns--practice their art forms in honor of a good cause, in memory of those w= e've lost to cancer, and in solidarity with those who continue to fight= this terrible disease. We've kept participation options flexible and w= elcome anyone who wants to participate. I'll paste the officialish anno= uncement below. I hope to "see" some of you on the weekend of the= 12th! :)

Please do pass this announcement along to other individua= ls and groups who may be interested.

Best regards,

Dawn
----

Create for Life is the idea and dream of Lady Roisin, a write= r, artist, and costume designer who also happened to have cancer. Roisin w= anted to provide a means for the creative community to promote cancer awar= eness and raise money for a cure. Although she didn't live to see her = dream come fully to life, her husband Eli and her friend Dawn are going ah= ead with the event in her memory, in memory of all other loved ones lost t= o cancer, and in hope that we will one day see an end to the shadow this = disease casts on our lives.

http://community.livejournal.com= /create_for_life/profile

Create for Life is inspired by Relay f= or Life. During the weekend of November 12 through 14, participating artis= ts, writers, musicians, and craftspeople will practice the crafts they lov= e in support of a cancer awareness and research.

There are several = ways to participate. Similar to how Relay for Life works, participants can= seek sponsors for their projects, who agree to donate to the American Can= cer Society or a similar charity for progress made on a CfL project. For e= xample, an author might ask for a donation for every 1,000 words she write= s over the weekend. A knitter might ask for a donation for every scarf she= knits. Flat donations to ACS by sponsors are, of course, more than welco= me as well. Artisans who sell their creations may wish to sell or auction = work created that weekend with proceeds going to ACS, as another means to = participate.

However, donations are not the only way to participate= . Awareness is just as important, and CfL participants are encouraged to p= ost about their projects on their blogs, Facebook, Twitter, and related si= tes to increase cancer awareness.

All types of artistic projects ar= e welcome. You do not have to commit to any minimum time spent or donation= s made for the event. Simply set aside some time that weekend to spend doi= ng what you love for a great cause!

Create for Life has a LiveJourn= al community with more information, a place to ask questions, and a forum = for sharing your project ideas with fellow participants.

ht= tp://community.livejournal.com/create_for_life/profile

Whether = you're able to participate this year or not, we greatly appreciate help= passing the word about the event to other individuals and groups who may= be interested in getting involved. We are just two people without any mar= keting specialists to help us get the word out! Please follow the rules on= any groups you post to and remember that spam hurts--not helps--our cause= .

If you are a member of LiveJournal, please do join the community a= nd, if you are participating, come share your ideas with us!

Best re= gards,

Eli and Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_l= oremaster/
http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016364ed97a4f167f0492ff729b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3248 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78483 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2010 17:46:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Oct 2010 17:46:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gy0-f180.google.com) (209.85.160.180) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Oct 2010 17:46:54 -0000 X-Received: by gyg8 with SMTP id 8so74859gyg.39 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:46:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.90.88.2 with SMTP id l2mr1525097agb.12.1287683213746; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:46:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.114.17 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:46:53 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016361e87ec89e2950493241c3e From: Dawn Felagund Subject: SWG Site Problems X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=I8tVqUu67V2Wm6Yuh5Ezx-IgCw1hqt-htR5KNDGIyPJx9jwOgxoU X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016361e87ec89e2950493241c3e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, We are having some problems with the SWG site. Some pages are displaying fine, but others refuse to show up at all. I've contacted our webhost, and they replied (literally, in about 30 seconds) that they are aware of and working on the problem. Thankfully, the archive seems to be among the pages that are working just fine, so readers trying to access the site for MEFA purposes should not be impacted. I just clicked through a few random stories without a hitch. However, if you *do* run into problems with the archive, we are aware of the problem, as is our host, and it should be resolved shortly, I hope. Since the homepage is one of the pages not showing up, you can access it directly here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/ I'll post an update when I hear back from our host and see with my own two eyes that the problem is fixed! :) Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016361e87ec89e2950493241c3e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

We are having some problems with the SWG site. Some pa= ges are displaying fine, but others refuse to show up at all. I've cont= acted our webhost, and they replied (literally, in about 30 seconds) that t= hey are aware of and working on the problem.

Thankfully, the archiv= e seems to be among the pages that are working just fine, so readers trying= to access the site for MEFA purposes should not be impacted. I just clicke= d through a few random stories without a hitch. However, if you do r= un into problems with the archive, we are aware of the problem, as is our h= ost, and it should be resolved shortly, I hope.

Since the homepage = is one of the pages not showing up, you can access it directly here:
http://w= ww.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/

I'll post an = update when I hear back from our host and see with my own two eyes that the= problem is fixed! :)

Best regards,

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--0016361e87ec89e2950493241c3e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3249 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58390 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2010 18:10:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Oct 2010 18:10:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-yw0-f54.google.com) (209.85.213.54) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Oct 2010 18:10:44 -0000 X-Received: by ywh2 with SMTP id 2so3048586ywh.13 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:10:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.90.103.2 with SMTP id a2mr1540330agc.73.1287684644039; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:10:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.90.114.17 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:10:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:10:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016361e86baca77550493247107 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: SWG Site Problems X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=btaRx6w76xXJoI22JoFKRpy7EIhNTYa_Ghyz3lZ4jaOOYPNRuGg1 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016361e86baca77550493247107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 And we appear to be back online! If anyone has any problems accessing any pages on the SWG site, please let me or one of the other mods know. Thanks, Dawn On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > Hi, everyone, > > We are having some problems with the SWG site. Some pages are displaying > fine, but others refuse to show up at all. I've contacted our webhost, and > they replied (literally, in about 30 seconds) that they are aware of and > working on the problem. > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016361e86baca77550493247107 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And we appear to be back online! If anyone has any problems accessing any p= ages on the SWG site, please let me or one of the other mods know.

T= hanks,

Dawn

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 a= t 1:46 PM, Dawn Felagund <dawnfelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, everyone,

We are h= aving some problems with the SWG site. Some pages are displaying fine, but = others refuse to show up at all. I've contacted our webhost, and they r= eplied (literally, in about 30 seconds) that they are aware of and working = on the problem.

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhaven= s.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016361e86baca77550493247107-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3250 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2300 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2010 18:13:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2010 18:13:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f178.google.com) (209.85.161.178) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2010 18:13:32 -0000 X-Received: by gxk6 with SMTP id 6so5525147gxk.37 for ; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 11:13:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.90.26.11 with SMTP id 11mr1762656agz.174.1288721611166; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 11:13:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.91.63.23 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:13:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163630ee99d91308049415e158 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: November 2010 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=1ffQjZi6zsdhVQAaACDaNi-lgp5mb9G6WfhbSK7ezr8vU8sAkysi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163630ee99d91308049415e158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, Our November 2010 newsletter has been posted on the website: htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/november2010.php Oshun has writt= en a biography this month about E=C3=A4rwen, a character with only a smatte= ring of mentions across the texts. But, as Oshun reveals, those mentions pr= ovide a tantalizing glimpse of a woman who may have had more influence than= her few appearances in the texts suggest. In "Linguistic Foolery" this mon= th, Darth Fingon takes on the question of accents: How do you pronounce all= those funny little symbols over the letters in Tolkien's languages? (How d= o you, for example, say *E=C3=A4rwen*?) What do they mean? How important ar= e they? In SWG-related news, we reached another milestone this past month = with the 1000th story added to the archive! We are also opening up a new pr= oject, the Library of Tirion, in an effort to archive stories and authors w= ho were writing before the SWG archive existed. We invite our members to su= ggest favorite authors and stories they'd like to see added to the archive.= Speaking of the archive, if you're looking for something to read, check ou= t the list of all the stories, ficlets, and essays added during the last mo= nth! Finally, as always, we have announcements from other groups outside of= the SWG that might interest our members. http://www.silmarillionwritersgu= ild.org/news/november2010.php Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http:/= /themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg --00163630ee99d91308049415e158 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Our November 2010 newsletter has been posted on the website= :

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/november2010.php
Oshun has written a biography this month about E=C3=A4rwen, a charac= ter with only a smattering of mentions across the texts. But, as Oshun reve= als, those mentions provide a tantalizing glimpse of a woman who may have h= ad more influence than her few appearances in the texts suggest. In "L= inguistic Foolery" this month, Darth Fingon takes on the question of a= ccents: How do you pronounce all those funny little symbols over the letter= s in Tolkien's languages? (How do you, for example, say E=C3=A4rwen<= /i>?) What do they mean? How important are they?

In SWG-related new= s, we reached another milestone this past month with the 1000th story added= to the archive! We are also opening up a new project, the Library of Tirio= n, in an effort to archive stories and authors who were writing before the = SWG archive existed. We invite our members to suggest favorite authors and = stories they'd like to see added to the archive. Speaking of the archiv= e, if you're looking for something to read, check out the list of all t= he stories, ficlets, and essays added during the last month! Finally, as al= ways, we have announcements from other groups outside of the SWG that might= interest our members.

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/= november2010.php

Enjoy!

Dawn

--
= ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org=
--00163630ee99d91308049415e158-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3251 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96495 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2010 13:03:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Nov 2010 13:03:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gy0-f178.google.com) (209.85.160.178) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2010 13:03:14 -0000 X-Received: by gyb13 with SMTP id 13so2234016gyb.9 for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 06:03:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.90.57.3 with SMTP id f3mr1284987aga.120.1288962193107; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 06:03:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.91.63.23 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Nov 2010 06:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 09:03:13 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363106a1a62a1504944de50a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:1 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Change in "Het" and "Slash" Warnings on the Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=kOUpyTxnrtrgLdsMWK7glctGcP-69Ce4sLYYUmbOSTbJZ5xoSe3d X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016363106a1a62a1504944de50a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, About two years ago, we decided that we were no longer comfortable having het and slash on the warnings list on the archive. We discussed it as a group, and the membership of SWG chose to replace the current het and slash warnings with a separate text field for pairing information. This required us to alter our archive software behind the scenes, and we clearly have not been successful so far, considering that the pairing field has not manifested and the outdated het and slash warning labels persist. We have not given up on the pairing field and will continue to work on it. However, we continue to believe that het and slash have no place on the warnings list, and so we'll be making changes to the warnings list in order to remove these labels. This will change somewhat how stories containing same-sex and opposite-sex pairings will work on the archive. Currently, as described in our ratings guidelines ( http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/ratings.php), stories rated Teen or Adult require warnings to clarify why the author has rated them as such. It has always been our strong belief that readers on our archive should be able to make informed choices about the content they choose to read. Because of this, authors have often felt pressured to put a "het" or "slash" warning label on a story, even if they didn't consider their story as such, because it contained same- or opposite-sex pairings, even if they weren't central to the story. However, it is also our strong belief that a character's sexuality is not something that deserves a warning. Given this, we've moved het and slash from the warnings field to the genre field. Therefore, authors are no longer *required* to label a story as het or slash. If you feel that your story fits one of these genres, and you'd like readers to be able to find your story listed under that particular genre, you are welcome to select Het or Slash/Femslash from the genre menu. If your story contains same- or opposite-sex pairings, but you feel your story fits best as General, Drama, or any of the many genres we have listed, you can choose those instead. Please remember that you can select as many genres as you want for your story (hold down the CTRL key to select more than one item from the list), so you are not limited to choosing between one or the other. The genres you select are up to your discretion only. The Het and Slash/Femslash genre labels are now available on the archive. If you have stories with the het and slash warnings on them, you are welcome to change your own stories to remove the warnings or add the genres, if you would like. If you'd like particular changes made to your stories containing het and slash warning labels but don't have time or desire to do it for yourself at this time, please do feel free to contact us, and we will make the changes for you. Over the next few weeks, the other mods and I will be removing het and slash warning labels from all stories and adding the genres instead. Once all stories are moved to the new system, we will delete the het and slash warnings. We will individually contact any authors whose stories we edit so that they have the option of removing the genre labels, if they wish, or providing more detailed instructions to us about how they'd like their stories to be listed in the archive. As always, if you have any questions, please comment here or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016363106a1a62a1504944de50a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

About two years ago, we decided that we were no longer comf= ortable having het and slash on the warnings list on the archive. We discu= ssed it as a group, and the membership of SWG chose to replace the current= het and slash warnings with a separate text field for pairing informatio= n. This required us to alter our archive software behind the scenes, and w= e clearly have not been successful so far, considering that the pairing fi= eld has not manifested and the outdated het and slash warning labels persi= st.

We have not given up on the pairing field and will continue to = work on it. However, we continue to believe that het and slash have no pla= ce on the warnings list, and so we'll be making changes to the warning= s list in order to remove these labels. This will change somewhat how stor= ies containing same-sex and opposite-sex pairings will work on the archive= .

Currently, as described in our ratings guidelines (http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/ratings.php), stories rated Teen or Adult require warnin= gs to clarify why the author has rated them as such. It has always been ou= r strong belief that readers on our archive should be able to make informe= d choices about the content they choose to read. Because of this, authors = have often felt pressured to put a "het" or "slash" wa= rning label on a story, even if they didn't consider their story as su= ch, because it contained same- or opposite-sex pairings, even if they were= n't central to the story.

However, it is also our strong belief= that a character's sexuality is not something that deserves a warning= . Given this, we've moved het and slash from the warnings field to the= genre field. Therefore, authors are no longer required to label = a story as het or slash. If you feel that your story fits one of these gen= res, and you'd like readers to be able to find your story listed under= that particular genre, you are welcome to select Het or Slash/Femslash fr= om the genre menu. If your story contains same- or opposite-sex pairings, = but you feel your story fits best as General, Drama, or any of the many ge= nres we have listed, you can choose those instead. Please remember that yo= u can select as many genres as you want for your story (hold down the CTRL= key to select more than one item from the list), so you are not limited t= o choosing between one or the other. The genres you select are up to your = discretion only.

The Het and Slash/Femslash genre labels are now a= vailable on the archive. If you have stories with the het and slash warnin= gs on them, you are welcome to change your own stories to remove the warni= ngs or add the genres, if you would like. If you'd like particular cha= nges made to your stories containing het and slash warning labels but don&= #39;t have time or desire to do it for yourself at this time, please do fe= el free to contact us, and we will make the changes for you. Over the next= few weeks, the other mods and I will be removing het and slash warning la= bels from all stories and adding the genres instead. Once all stories are = moved to the new system, we will delete the het and slash warnings. We wil= l individually contact any authors whose stories we edit so that they have= the option of removing the genre labels, if they wish, or providing more = detailed instructions to us about how they'd like their stories to be = listed in the archive.

As always, if you have any questions, please = comment here or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.<= br>
Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn= Felagund
http:/= /themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0016363106a1a62a1504944de50a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3252 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 34332 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2010 18:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2010 18:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.100) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2010 18:35:16 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1289846115; bh=dWw7ArvoNOZmT74DWD4zhPUOD3NXZ3cJaYa7x0BZw1w=; h=Received:Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=YIFnTIgOun72gjq+cGsrGNQO/LaWHS9b6RtbRIEPfeM7rZ/PAP82bbZTN/YhDY/bFQ9oc1Bj4gFVk4S/1DzS+LCjzG/jLYOaVD2dvzM8lonfSe09ayyIgkvG1ZWKSCiP Received: from [67.195.134.48] by n4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2010 18:35:15 -0000 Received: from [69.147.65.150] by t1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2010 18:35:15 -0000 Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2010 18:35:15 -0000 X-Sender: jeditarja@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48791 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2010 18:34:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2010 18:34:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2010 18:34:06 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2010 18:34:05 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2010 18:34:05 -0000 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:34:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1-1637281705-3790387314=:5" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system From: "jedi_tarja" Subject: Hello! Newbie Loose! :-) Call the Zookeeper! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=470116830; y=c2ikwr7EZ0HkxF8zKjXk7hGE5muDJP9b513bsi5BOygyUYEF X-Yahoo-Profile: jedi_tarja X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 15 Nov 2010 18:35:14 -0000 --1-1637281705-3790387314=:5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello beautiful people! New here and I thought it the proper thing to intro= duce myself. I'm Tarja (Yes, that is really my name.) and I have been on th= e search for some nice, mature, and open minded fan communities. I found th= e website through a random Google search. I'm an old relic from the Star Wa= rs fan community and sadly many of my old favorite sites have gone offline = and pickings are now very slim. The fandom has changed a lot since the end = of the movies and the advent of The Clone Wars TV series. My other main fa= n interest is The Silmarillion. I love the entire book. I love Elves and ev= en all the other characters. I tried out that place called fanfiction.net a= nd I was not impressed with the maturity levels to say the least. I read up= on the Silmarillion Writers Guild rules, mission, and terms of service and= I liked what I saw so I would like to poke around see how it goes. I have = already read a few stories and I am impressed by the caliber of writing, bu= t also with the high level of creativity. All of you will have to pardon me= , but after being in the Star Wars fan community for some time the word can= on has become a four letter word in my language (no one ever agrees what ca= non is in that fandom) and it was nice to come here and see authors taking = creative risks. Outside of the net I'm a musicals nut. I have a BFA in voc= al music performance and music theater has always been a big part of my lif= e. I'm more than a bit of a pyro and for the past five years or so I've tak= en up fire spinning and it is one of my obsessions and I have the scars to = prove it. Although recently I've taken a hiatus from playing with fire beca= use my partner and I are expecting our first child which we're super excite= d about. I look forward to reading more and someday I may torture all of y= ou lovely folks with my own writing. --1-1637281705-3790387314=:5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello beautiful people! New here and I thought it the proper thing to intro= duce myself. I'm Tarja (Yes, that is really my name.) and I have been on th= e search for some nice, mature, and open minded fan communities. I found th= e website through a random Google search. I'm an old relic from the Star= Wars fan community and sadly many of my old favorite sites have gone o= ffline and pickings are now very slim. The fandom has changed a lot since t= he end of the movies and the advent of The Clone Wars TV series.
=
My other main fan interest is The Silmarillion. I love the entir= e book. I love Elves and even all the other characters. I tried out that pl= ace called fanfiction.net and I was not impressed with the maturity levels = to say the least. I read up on the Silmarillion Writers Guild rules, missio= n, and terms of service and I liked what I saw so I would like to poke arou= nd see how it goes. I have already read a few stories and I am impressed by= the caliber of writing, but also with the high level of creativity. All of= you will have to pardon me, but after being in the Star Wars fan co= mmunity for some time the word canon has become a four letter word i= n my language (no one ever agrees what canon is in that fandom) and = it was nice to come here and see authors taking creative risks.

Out= side of the net I'm a musicals nut. I have a BFA in vocal music performance= and music theater has always been a big part of my life. I'm more than a b= it of a pyro and for the past five years or so I've taken up fire spinning = and it is one of my obsessions and I have the scars to prove it. Although r= ecently I've taken a hiatus from playing with fire because my partner and I= are expecting our first child which we're super excited about.

I l= ook forward to reading more and someday I may torture all of you lovely fol= ks with my own writing.
--1-1637281705-3790387314=:5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3253 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44955 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2010 19:30:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2010 19:30:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw0-f44.google.com) (74.125.83.44) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2010 19:30:01 -0000 X-Received: by gwb10 with SMTP id 10so2938109gwb.3 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:30:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.90.2.28 with SMTP id 28mr8190872agb.66.1289849401505; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:30:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.91.63.23 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:30:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:30:01 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163630ff7b63f7f204951c77f6 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Hello! Newbie Loose! :-) Call the Zookeeper! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8z5UTRGZYlwsB71U31yU8EblJynznjx3Gq7MPXTi_3mie13Yrf4F X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163630ff7b63f7f204951c77f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Tarja, and welcome to the SWG! :) > I tried out that place called fanfiction.net and I was not impressed with the maturity levels to say the least. *snerk* Oh yes, I know what you mean. I have about a half-dozen stories up there right now. When I feel like spoiling for a fight, I post something new and watch the canatics froth. >:^) > after being in the *Star Wars* fan community for some time the word *canon * has become a four letter word in my language (no one ever agrees what * canon* is in that fandom) As I'm sure you know, we have the same problem in Silm fandom. :) I'd imagine both fandoms share the conundrum of how to deal with multiple conflicting pieces of source material. Personally, I don't even think that canon--in the sense of information collectively believed to be true about a story--can even exist in Tolkien fandom. We can't even agree on what books/sources are "canon." Is *The Silmarillion*? The HoMe? The movies? Freight trains can be defended as "canon" in LotR. Or you could write Silmfic without even considering the Silm to be canon. That doesn't even begin to address how one ferrets out "truth" from a series of stories deliberately crafted as translations of myths and histories written by fictional characters with limited points of view. That's what makes this fandom appeal to me so much: sifting out historical and mythological details and putting them together within that context, mixing them with what we know of how the world works, and seeing what "truths" come out of it. And then seeing how a half-dozen other writers come up with a half-dozen other answers. :) This is the biggest problem I've had with ff.net (and some other Tolkien sites as well): that the writers there seem bent on converting everyone to a single perspective on and interpretation of the texts, where I see the potential for diverse and creative interpretations in this fandom without deviating from the texts as one of its greatest assets. > it was nice to come here and see authors taking creative risks. I am biased, but I am constantly awed by the talent and creativity of the authors on this group. :) I must confess that I had to confirm via Google that what I was imagining when I read "fire spinning" is what you actually meant. :) It was ... and wow, does that look amazing! Congrats on the forthcoming little one as well--I can see why you had to give your hobby a rest. :) > I look forward to reading more and someday I may torture all of you lovely folks with my own writing. Please do! We're a group of people who bypass Tolkien's more readable works in favor of posthumously published books featuring hundreds of similarly named characters, copious footnotes, and written in a style more like the KJB than a modern novel--we obviously like to be tortured. ;) You mentioned that you like all of the Silm characters--any particular favorites stand out? Any favorite directions as far as reading or writing Silmfic goes? Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163630ff7b63f7f204951c77f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Tarja, and welcome to the SWG! :)

> I tried out that place ca= lled fanfiction.net and I was not impressed with the maturity levels to say the least.
*snerk* Oh yes, I know what you mean. I have about a half-dozen stories u= p there right now. When I feel like spoiling for a fight, I post something = new and watch the canatics froth. >:^)

> after being in the Star Wars fan community for some time the word canon has become= a four letter word in my language (no one ever agrees what canon is= in that fandom)

As I'm sure you know, we have the same problem= in Silm fandom. :) I'd imagine both fandoms share the conundrum of how= to deal with multiple conflicting pieces of source material. Personally, I= don't even think that canon--in the sense of information collectively = believed to be true about a story--can even exist in Tolkien fandom. We can= 't even agree on what books/sources are "canon." Is The Si= lmarillion? The HoMe? The movies? Freight trains can be defended as &qu= ot;canon" in LotR. Or you could write Silmfic without even considering= the Silm to be canon. That doesn't even begin to address how one ferre= ts out "truth" from a series of stories deliberately crafted as t= ranslations of myths and histories written by fictional characters with lim= ited points of view.

That's what makes this fandom appeal to me= so much: sifting out historical and mythological details and putting them = together within that context, mixing them with what we know of how the worl= d works, and seeing what "truths" come out of it. And then seeing= how a half-dozen other writers come up with a half-dozen other answers. :)= This is the biggest problem I've had with ff= .net (and some other Tolkien sites as well): that the writers there see= m bent on converting everyone to a single perspective on and interpretation= of the texts, where I see the potential for diverse and creative interpret= ations in this fandom without deviating from the texts as one of its greate= st assets.

> it was nice to come here and see authors taking cre= ative risks.

I am biased, but I am constantly awed by the talent and= creativity of the authors on this group. :)

I must confess that I h= ad to confirm via Google that what I was imagining when I read "fire s= pinning" is what you actually meant. :) It was ... and wow, does that = look amazing! Congrats on the forthcoming little one as well--I can see why= you had to give your hobby a rest. :)

> I look forward to readi= ng more and someday I may torture all of you lovely folks with my own writi= ng.

Please do! We're a group of people who bypass Tolkien's = more readable works in favor of posthumously published books featuring hund= reds of similarly named characters, copious footnotes, and written in a sty= le more like the KJB than a modern novel--we obviously like to be tortured.= ;)

You mentioned that you like all of the Silm characters--any par= ticular favorites stand out? Any favorite directions as far as reading or w= riting Silmfic goes?

Best regards,

Dawn

= --
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--00163630ff7b63f7f204951c77f6-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3254 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeditarja@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93168 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2010 20:46:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2010 20:46:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2010 20:46:14 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2010 20:46:14 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2010 20:46:14 -0000 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:46:12 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="6-7566944774-5537221374=:6" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "jedi_tarja" Subject: Re: Hello! Newbie Loose! :-) Call the Zookeeper! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=470116830; y=V85w_xa9SSA1SZSElkUhmTUztAHkQmetOtf4R-n4ud7M-drR X-Yahoo-Profile: jedi_tarja --6-7566944774-5537221374=:6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LOL! I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who has fun messing with folks t= here at ff.net. Sometimes I will put purposefully bad stories up there just= to watch the flies swarm. It's especially fun with the strict "Jedi do not= love" folks. Star Wars canon has varying degrees of canon. That is how me= ssy it has gotten over the years with the various medias it is presented in= . There's the movies, books, comics, video games, and now the TV series. Lu= cas contradicts himself all the time too so you really have to pick and cho= ose what works for you and ignore the rest. I'm not surprised The Silmarill= ion is the same with the HoME books and all. And I have to agree with you = about why fandom is enjoyable. Like The Silmarillion, Star Wars is also bas= ed on a lot of mythology and archetypal forms and because it is such a vast= universe really anything goes. Picking just a few favorite characters fro= m The Silmarillion is hard for me because I like the different stories and = characters within it for different reasons. I like the Noldor because they'= re history is never boring, they're inventors, and they keep things interes= ting. I like Luthien because she's badass and one of the very few female ch= aracters Tolkien speaks at any length about. The Sons of Feanor are growing= on me. And the Numenoreans are great because it's so dark and epic. I've = had a lot of arguments with folks at ff.net about the Valar because I see t= hem more as more like Egyptian gods than benevolent beings. There's a lot= to like and discuss in that book. I like how everything is so different an= d yet it all connects. I like to dabble in all areas of the text with my wr= iting. Fire spinning is great fun. My main props are fans, fingers, and po= i. I wanted to get into hoops, but that will have to wait. It's a fun hobby= , but a very dangerous one and I've been burned enough times to know to res= pect it. It's really grown in popularity over the past few years too. I'm= fortunate to be able to play with glow fans and poi in the meantime which = helps me to keep practicing without the fire danger. The little one is wor= th the hiatus in playing with fire though. I'm due in April, so the baby mi= ght end up being an Aries which is a fire sign. I thought that was ironic. = :-) I may have to subject you guys to my gladiator girl after all. :-) I'v= e enjoyed reading all the fantastic stories so far. Thank you for the kind= welcome. I'm excited to be here. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogr= oups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, Tarja, and welcom= e to the SWG! :) > > > I tried out that place called fanfiction.net and I w= as not impressed with > the maturity levels to say the least. > > *snerk* O= h yes, I know what you mean. I have about a half-dozen stories up > there r= ight now. When I feel like spoiling for a fight, I post something new > and= watch the canatics froth. >:^) > > > after being in the *Star Wars* fan co= mmunity for some time the word *canon > * has become a four letter word in = my language (no one ever agrees what * > canon* is in that fandom) > > As I= 'm sure you know, we have the same problem in Silm fandom. :) I'd > imagine= both fandoms share the conundrum of how to deal with multiple > conflictin= g pieces of source material. Personally, I don't even think that > canon--i= n the sense of information collectively believed to be true about a > story= --can even exist in Tolkien fandom. We can't even agree on what > books/sou= rces are "canon." Is *The Silmarillion*? The HoMe? The movies? > Freight tr= ains can be defended as "canon" in LotR. Or you could write > Silmfic witho= ut even considering the Silm to be canon. That doesn't even > begin to addr= ess how one ferrets out "truth" from a series of stories > deliberately cra= fted as translations of myths and histories written by > fictional characte= rs with limited points of view. > > That's what makes this fandom appeal to= me so much: sifting out historical > and mythological details and putting = them together within that context, > mixing them with what we know of how t= he world works, and seeing what > "truths" come out of it. And then seeing = how a half-dozen other writers come > up with a half-dozen other answers. := ) This is the biggest problem I've had > with ff.net (and some other Tolkie= n sites as well): that the writers there > seem bent on converting everyone= to a single perspective on and > interpretation of the texts, where I see = the potential for diverse and > creative interpretations in this fandom wit= hout deviating from the texts as > one of its greatest assets. > > > it was= nice to come here and see authors taking creative risks. > > I am biased, = but I am constantly awed by the talent and creativity of the > authors on t= his group. :) > > I must confess that I had to confirm via Google that what= I was imagining > when I read "fire spinning" is what you actually meant. = :) It was ... and > wow, does that look amazing! Congrats on the forthcomin= g little one as > well--I can see why you had to give your hobby a rest. :)= > > > I look forward to reading more and someday I may torture all of you = lovely > folks with my own writing. > > Please do! We're a group of people = who bypass Tolkien's more readable works > in favor of posthumously publish= ed books featuring hundreds of similarly > named characters, copious footno= tes, and written in a style more like the > KJB than a modern novel--we obv= iously like to be tortured. ;) > > You mentioned that you like all of the S= ilm characters--any particular > favorites stand out? Any favorite directio= ns as far as reading or writing > Silmfic goes? > > Best regards, > > Dawn = > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster= / > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > --6-7566944774-5537221374=:6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LOL! I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who has fun messing with folks = there at ff.net. Sometimes I will put purposefully bad stories up there jus= t to watch the flies swarm. It's especially fun with the strict "Jedi do no= t love" folks.

Star Wars canon has varying degrees of canon. = That is how messy it has gotten over the years with the various medias it i= s presented in. There's the movies, books, comics, video games, and now the= TV series. Lucas contradicts himself all the time too so you really have t= o pick and choose what works for you and ignore the rest. I'm not surprised= The Silmarillion is the same with the HoME books and all.

A= nd I have to agree with you about why fandom is enjoyable. Like The Silm= arillion, Star Wars is also based on a lot of mythology and arch= etypal forms and because it is such a vast universe really anything goes. <= br>
Picking just a few favorite characters from The Silmarillion = is hard for me because I like the different stories and characters within i= t for different reasons. I like the Noldor because they're history is never= boring, they're inventors, and they keep things interesting. I like Luthie= n because she's badass and one of the very few female characters Tolkien sp= eaks at any length about. The Sons of Feanor are growing on me. And the Num= enoreans are great because it's so dark and epic.  I've had a lot of a= rguments with folks at ff.net about the Valar because I see them more as mo= re like Egyptian gods than benevolent  beings.  There's a lot to = like and discuss in that book. I like how everything is so different and ye= t it all connects. I like to dabble in all areas of the text with my writin= g.

Fire spinning is great fun. My main props are fans, fingers, and= poi. I wanted to get into hoops, but that will have to wait. It's a fun ho= bby, but a very dangerous one and I've been burned enough times to know to = respect it.  It's really grown in popularity over the past few years t= oo.  I'm fortunate to be able to play with glow fans and poi in the me= antime which helps me to keep practicing without the fire danger.  The= little one is worth the hiatus in playing with fire though. I'm due in Apr= il, so the baby might end up being an Aries which is a fire sign. I thought= that was ironic. :-)

I may have to subject you guys to my gladiator= girl after all. :-) I've enjoyed reading all the fantastic stories so far.=   Thank you for the kind welcome. I'm excited to be here.


-= -- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote:
>
> Hi, Tarja, and welcome to the SWG! :)>
> > I tried out that place called fanfiction.net and I was = not impressed with
> the maturity levels to say the least.
> > *snerk* Oh yes, I know what you mean. I have about a half-dozen stor= ies up
> there right now. When I feel like spoiling for a fight, I po= st something new
> and watch the canatics froth. >:^)
>
= > > after being in the *Star Wars* fan community for some time the wo= rd *canon
> * has become a four letter word in my language (no one ev= er agrees what *
> canon* is in that fandom)
>
> As I'm = sure you know, we have the same problem in Silm fandom. :) I'd
> imag= ine both fandoms share the conundrum of how to deal with multiple
> c= onflicting pieces of source material. Personally, I don't even think that> canon--in the sense of information collectively believed to be true = about a
> story--can even exist in Tolkien fandom. We can't even agre= e on what
> books/sources are "canon." Is *The Silmarillion*? The HoM= e? The movies?
> Freight trains can be defended as "canon" in LotR. O= r you could write
> Silmfic without even considering the Silm to be c= anon. That doesn't even
> begin to address how one ferrets out "truth= " from a series of stories
> deliberately crafted as translations of = myths and histories written by
> fictional characters with limited po= ints of view.
>
> That's what makes this fandom appeal to me s= o much: sifting out historical
> and mythological details and putting= them together within that context,
> mixing them with what we know o= f how the world works, and seeing what
> "truths" come out of it. And= then seeing how a half-dozen other writers come
> up with a half-doz= en other answers. :) This is the biggest problem I've had
> with ff.n= et (and some other Tolkien sites as well): that the writers there
> s= eem bent on converting everyone to a single perspective on and
> inte= rpretation of the texts, where I see the potential for diverse and
> = creative interpretations in this fandom without deviating from the texts as=
> one of its greatest assets.
>
> > it was nice to c= ome here and see authors taking creative risks.
>
> I am biase= d, but I am constantly awed by the talent and creativity of the
> aut= hors on this group. :)
>
> I must confess that I had to confir= m via Google that what I was imagining
> when I read "fire spinning" = is what you actually meant. :) It was ... and
> wow, does that look a= mazing! Congrats on the forthcoming little one as
> well--I can see w= hy you had to give your hobby a rest. :)
>
> > I look forwa= rd to reading more and someday I may torture all of you lovely
> folk= s with my own writing.
>
> Please do! We're a group of people = who bypass Tolkien's more readable works
> in favor of posthumously p= ublished books featuring hundreds of similarly
> named characters, co= pious footnotes, and written in a style more like the
> KJB than a mo= dern novel--we obviously like to be tortured. ;)
>
> You menti= oned that you like all of the Silm characters--any particular
> favor= ites stand out? Any favorite directions as far as reading or writing
>= ; Silmfic goes?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dawn
>= ;
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org=
>
--6-7566944774-5537221374=:6-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3255 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeditarja@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57363 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2010 18:18:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2010 18:18:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2010 18:18:11 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Nov 2010 18:18:11 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Nov 2010 18:18:11 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:18:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "jedi_tarja" Subject: Story Recomendations, Beta Advice, and How to Get Involved In This Community? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=470116830; y=oOn5-taorvgkFZLLiafa3AHCQruoRsiQRxxRaHfQCldckJt9 X-Yahoo-Profile: jedi_tarja I'm on a bit of a reviewing frenzy. If anyone has some story recommendation= s I would be happy to check them out. Really anything goes. I've noticed th= at authors here have their own story lines which is great. I apologize if I= read anything out of order. Where's a good place to start reading here at = the Silmarillion Writers Guild? I also wanted to ask about beta readers. I= noticed on some profiles people marked themselves as beta readers. However= , I don't feel comfortable messaging people at random to solicit their beta= services, especially since I don't know anyone here yet. What is a good wa= y to go about this here at the Silmarillion Writers Guild? I used to do a l= ittle bit of beta reading in my other fandom and I know how much time and e= nergy it takes and the last thing I want to do is step on toes as a newbie.= A third question I had, which is a good follow up to the prior two, and t= hat is what is a good way to go about getting involved here at The Silmaril= lion Writers Guild? How do I go about meeting other authors? What do the mo= derators consider to be the perfect new member? Every group I've been a par= t of runs differently and has different sets of values. What quantifies a p= roductive member here? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3256 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31967 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2010 20:29:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m16.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2010 20:29:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-yw0-f48.google.com) (209.85.213.48) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2010 20:29:54 -0000 X-Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1so809022ywh.7 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:29:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.91.16.29 with SMTP id t29mr10085445agi.201.1289939393123; Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:29:53 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.91.63.23 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:29:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 15:29:52 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b84f44f16420495316ba1 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Story Recomendations, Beta Advice, and How to Get Involved In This Community? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=2hsei7O2sQ8giUJpFZUYZQ8Wimxerd_4p7fRbM3fdPPRle-8UEWB X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016363b84f44f16420495316ba1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Tarja! I'm so glad that you're finding stuff to read over on the archive! As for recs and where to start, many of our members keep favorites lists. I don't know if you've posted on an eFiction archive before, but you can find each member's favorite stories and authors on her/his profile under her/his biography. The archive also compiles top-ten lists of the authors and stories most often chosen as favorites by our members. That list is here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/toplists.php The group also runs special events about twice per year. We always do something for Back to Middle-earth Month in March and usually a themed story compilation sometime else during the year. Since you like stories about Numenor and the Noldor/Feanorians, you might be interested in some of these as well (we have compilations for both of those) if you want to get a general look at what our authors are writing without jumping into the middle of an ongoing story arc. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/specialprojects.php List members, please do share your favorites on-list! :) It's been a while since we've had a thread for recs. > I noticed on some profiles > people marked themselves as beta readers. However, I don't feel > comfortable messaging people at random to solicit their beta services, > especially since I don't know anyone here yet. What is a good way to go > about this here at the Silmarillion Writers Guild? I usually recommend people do what you've already done: see what authors whose work they like also list themselves as betas. :^P We're generally pretty laid-back and nice here, so I don't think anyone would feel imposed upon if they've listed themselves as a beta, even if they're not available at the moment. But another route to take might be to post here or on our LiveJournal community, if you have an LJ account. (The latter has been more active lately. This list has been pretty quiet.) > A third question I had, which is a good follow up to the prior two, and > that is what is a good way to go about getting involved here at The > Silmarillion Writers Guild? How do I go about meeting other authors? > What do the moderators consider to be the perfect new member? Every > group I've been a part of runs differently and has different sets of > values. What quantifies a productive member here? We're really kind of an interesting group because our members have such diverse interests and contributions. We have lots of authors, of course, but we also have people here only to read, to discuss the books, or who do fanart. Our name Silmarillion *Writers'* Guild really doesn't fit us in that regard. :) Because of this, though, than people participate in lots of different ways, and we really do value all of them. Some people are voracious readers and reviewers, others write, others do artwork for our events, and we also have many volunteers who keep the group running behind the scenes. As the group's owner, I can say that my comods and I have *never *judged how or at what level people participate. We notice waves of activity and inactivity (like the fact that this list has been seriously slow for a few months now! :), but unless it's being caused by something going wrong in the group, we tend to chalk it up to people being busy offline. (As, indeed, the past few months have really whalloped some of our most active members, myself included.) Eventually, it swings in the other direction, and we have a lot of activity again. So I'd say that what you've done so far is perfect. :) I'm sure our authors have appreciated your reviews--I certainly did mine! (Today is my internship day, so I am just now sitting down at my computer to begin my workday >.< and catch up on fun stuff in between, so I will reply soon! :) This is also the best way to meet up with authors, I think, because most of the SWG's activity now happens on the website rather than here or on LJ, although both of those have been known to hop as well. Any other SWGers with thoughts or ideas, please do chime in! :) As the group's owner, I can sometimes have a different perspective from others who participate as readers and authors, so if you have any ideas, please share! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016363b84f44f16420495316ba1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Tarja!

I'm so glad that you're finding stuff to read ove= r on the archive! As for recs and where to start, many of our members keep = favorites lists. I don't know if you've posted on an eFiction archi= ve before, but you can find each member's favorite stories and authors = on her/his profile under her/his biography. The archive also compiles top-t= en lists of the authors and stories most often chosen as favorites by our m= embers. That list is here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg/archive/home/toplists.php

The group also runs special events = about twice per year. We always do something for Back to Middle-earth Month= in March and usually a themed story compilation sometime else during the y= ear. Since you like stories about Numenor and the Noldor/Feanorians, you mi= ght be interested in some of these as well (we have compilations for both o= f those) if you want to get a general look at what our authors are writing = without jumping into the middle of an ongoing story arc.

http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org/specialprojects.php

List members, ple= ase do share your favorites on-list! :) It's been a while since we'= ve had a thread for recs.

> I noticed on some profiles
> = people marked themselves as beta readers. However, I don't feel
>= comfortable messaging people at random to solicit their beta services,
= > especially since I don't know anyone here yet. What is a good way = to go
> about this here at the Silmarillion Writers Guild?

I = usually recommend people do what you've already done: see what authors = whose work they like also list themselves as betas. :^P We're generally= pretty laid-back and nice here, so I don't think anyone would feel imp= osed upon if they've listed themselves as a beta, even if they're n= ot available at the moment. But another route to take might be to post here= or on our LiveJournal community, if you have an LJ account. (The latter ha= s been more active lately. This list has been pretty quiet.)

> A= third question I had, which is a good follow up to the prior two, and
= > that is what is a good way to go about getting involved here at The> Silmarillion Writers Guild? How do I go about meeting other authors?<= br>> What do the moderators consider to be the perfect new member? Every=
> group I've been a part of runs differently and has different = sets of
> values. What quantifies a productive member here?

We= 're really kind of an interesting group because our members have such d= iverse interests and contributions. We have lots of authors, of course, but= we also have people here only to read, to discuss the books, or who do fan= art. Our name Silmarillion Writers' Guild really doesn't fit= us in that regard. :)

Because of this, though, than people partici= pate in lots of different ways, and we really do value all of them. Some pe= ople are voracious readers and reviewers, others write, others do artwork f= or our events, and we also have many volunteers who keep the group running = behind the scenes. As the group's owner, I can say that my comods and I= have never judged how or at what level people participate. We notic= e waves of activity and inactivity (like the fact that this list has been s= eriously slow for a few months now! :), but unless it's being caused by= something going wrong in the group, we tend to chalk it up to people being= busy offline. (As, indeed, the past few months have really whalloped some = of our most active members, myself included.) Eventually, it swings in the = other direction, and we have a lot of activity again.

So I'd sa= y that what you've done so far is perfect. :) I'm sure our authors = have appreciated your reviews--I certainly did mine! (Today is my internshi= p day, so I am just now sitting down at my computer to begin my workday >= ;.< and catch up on fun stuff in between, so I will reply soon! :) This = is also the best way to meet up with authors, I think, because most of the = SWG's activity now happens on the website rather than here or on LJ, al= though both of those have been known to hop as well.

Any other SWGe= rs with thoughts or ideas, please do chime in! :) As the group's owner,= I can sometimes have a different perspective from others who participate a= s readers and authors, so if you have any ideas, please share!

Dawn=

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org
--0016363b84f44f16420495316ba1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3257 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12302 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2010 21:09:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2010 21:09:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f52.google.com) (209.85.161.52) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2010 21:09:11 -0000 X-Received: by fxm15 with SMTP id 15so971370fxm.39 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 13:09:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.86.9 with SMTP id q9mr2742693fal.25.1290028148988; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 13:09:08 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.122.16 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 13:09:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 16:09:08 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3054a70b921a4404954615fa From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Original Fiction Workshop (Slightly OT) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=WT_5NrTbitFfaPgLM3eTdiJoXp7jevh3p_sebHRlFB6XxkFOWPfv X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --20cf3054a70b921a4404954615fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'm labeling this "slightly OT" because it relates to writing but not Tolkien-based writing per se. :) Nonetheless, I know that many of you write original as well as Tolkien-based fiction and wanted to pass the word around. The Critters workshop has recently expanded to offer online workshops for all genres of writing, as well as visual arts. (And if you don't see a workshop you want on the list, you can contact the Critters' owner to have it added!) Critters has a 15-year history as one of the most respected online workshops for science fiction, fantasy, and horror fiction. I was an active participant for a year before going back to school ate my life, and I found the workshop useful and fun to participate in, as well as a friendly and supportive community. (The Site Etiquette for the SWG was largely inspired by the Critters diplomacy guidelines, so if you're comfortable with the rules we have here on the SWG, you'd probably fit in at Critters as well. :) The workshop is free; you earn points for critiquing stories that you can "cash in" to have your own work looked at. Since I know we have many aspiring professional authors and artists here, I thought some of you might be interested in the chance to have your original work critiqued now that Critters has expanded beyond its original and rather limited speculative fiction focus. The Critters site is here, with group rules and information on how to sign up: http://www.critique.org And the full list of workshops currently available: Science fiction, Fantasy, and Horror Writing Mainstream and Literary Fiction Mystery, Thriller, and Action/Adventure Writing Non-Fiction Writing Script, Screenplay, and Stageplay Writing Kids Books, Young Adult, etc. (ages 0-18) Comics, Graphic novels, Manga, etc. Western Fiction Writing Romance Writing Adult Fiction Video and Film Music and Audio Photography Art, Painting, Drawing, etc. Apps and Software Website Design Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --20cf3054a70b921a4404954615fa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm labeling this "slightly OT" because it relates to writing= but not Tolkien-based writing per se. :) Nonetheless, I know that many of = you write original as well as Tolkien-based fiction and wanted to pass the = word around.

The Critters workshop has recently expanded to offer o= nline workshops for all genres of writing, as well as visual arts. (And if = you don't see a workshop you want on the list, you can contact the Crit= ters' owner to have it added!) Critters has a 15-year history as one of= the most respected online workshops for science fiction, fantasy, and horr= or fiction. I was an active participant for a year before going back to sch= ool ate my life, and I found the workshop useful and fun to participate in,= as well as a friendly and supportive community. (The Site Etiquette for th= e SWG was largely inspired by the Critters diplomacy guidelines, so if you&= #39;re comfortable with the rules we have here on the SWG, you'd probab= ly fit in at Critters as well. :) The workshop is free; you earn points for= critiquing stories that you can "cash in" to have your own work = looked at. Since I know we have many aspiring professional authors and arti= sts here, I thought some of you might be interested in the chance to have y= our original work critiqued now that Critters has expanded beyond its origi= nal and rather limited speculative fiction focus.

The Critters site= is here, with group rules and information on how to sign up:

http://www.critique.org

And the fu= ll list of workshops currently available:

Science fiction, Fantasy, = and Horror Writing
Mainstream and Literary Fiction
Mystery, Thri= ller, and Action/Adventure Writing
Non-Fiction Writing
Script, Sc= reenplay, and Stageplay Writing
Kids Books, Young Adult, etc. (ages 0-= 18)
Comics, Graphic novels, Manga, etc.
Western Fiction Writing Romance Writing
Adult Fiction
Video and Film
Music and A= udio
Photography
Art, Painting, Drawing, etc.
Apps and Softwar= e
Website Design

Best regards,

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--20cf3054a70b921a4404954615fa-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3258 Return-Path: X-Sender: glenceol@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52620 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2010 21:49:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m15.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2010 21:49:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.100) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2010 21:49:04 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.48] by n4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2010 21:49:02 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by t1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2010 21:49:02 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2010 21:49:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 21:49:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "Ellie" Subject: Re: Story Recomendations, Beta Advice, and How to Get Involved In This Community? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=173391137; y=0UmCLLjYeI3siWG34ydckG4wszwDzvqWJlknwhJSUHXxUBmgULw X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Hey Tarja, Welcome to the group! If you want to talk to authors, I sugge= st you email those who have written stories you have enjoyed and tell the a= uthors what you liked about their stories. I have made lots of interesting = friends this way. If you want to start up some discussion here, then ask = a question or make a statement and ask if others agree with you or to refut= e what you say with canon, and you will usually get a fairly quick response= . The more controversial or thought provoking the statement or question, th= e more wild the responses usually. This is also a great place to get info o= n details for your stories such as the distance from Tirion to Alqualonde o= r what Tolkien had to say about whether the sons of Elrond ever sailed. Ar= e you interested in writing for challenges or just want more stories to rea= d? If so, I suggest you look into the ALEC (A Long Expected Contest) challe= nges. They are broad in nature and do not "necessarily have to include can= on characters but must take place somewhere within Tolkien's world as descr= ibed in The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, or The Lord of the Rings." I enjoy t= hem immensely. http://alongexpectedcontest.yolasite.com/ There are a nu= mber of other challenges, too, and maybe someon else can fill you in on the= m. Happy Reading! BTW, are you expecting a boy or a girl or is it too ear= ly to tell or do you even want to find out early? I have 4 elflings/orclin= gs myself. ellie --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "jedi= _tarja" wrote: > > I'm on a bit of a reviewing frenzy. If a= nyone has some story > recommendations I would be happy to check them out. = Really anything > goes. I've noticed that authors here have their own story= lines which is > great. I apologize if I read anything out of order. Where= 's a good place > to start reading here at the Silmarillion Writers Guild? = > > I also wanted to ask about beta readers. I noticed on some profiles > = people marked themselves as beta readers. However, I don't feel > comfortab= le messaging people at random to solicit their beta services, > especially = since I don't know anyone here yet. What is a good way to go > about this h= ere at the Silmarillion Writers Guild? I used to do a little > bit of beta = reading in my other fandom and I know how much time and > energy it takes a= nd the last thing I want to do is step on toes as a > newbie. > > A third = question I had, which is a good follow up to the prior two, and > that is w= hat is a good way to go about getting involved here at The > Silmarillion W= riters Guild? How do I go about meeting other authors? > What do the modera= tors consider to be the perfect new member? Every > group I've been a part = of runs differently and has different sets of > values. What quantifies a p= roductive member here? > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3259 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeditarja@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49616 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2010 03:52:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Nov 2010 03:52:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 2010 03:52:07 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Nov 2010 03:52:06 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Nov 2010 03:52:06 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 03:52:04 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "jedi_tarja" Subject: Re: Story Recomendations, Beta Advice, and How to Get Involved In This Community? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=470116830; y=my5N3AVXj_qt4WTN2GSb2AEZVDsdz0GmNv4XgElrM3uX101L X-Yahoo-Profile: jedi_tarja Hi Ellie. Thank you for the advice and recommendations. I'll have to have a= look at that writing challenge. In regards to the boy or girl question, I'= m in my 18th week and my partner and I have plans to go in for some special= ultrasounds. I'm sure we'll find out then. I thought I wanted to wait unti= l the birth to find out, but my curiosity's getting the best of me. Plus I = want to start thinking about names. :) Ah! Four children! You have nothing = but my utmost respect! --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "E= llie" wrote: > > Hey Tarja, > > Welcome to the group! > > If= you want to talk to authors, I suggest you email those who have written st= ories you have enjoyed and tell the authors what you liked about their stor= ies. I have made lots of interesting friends this way. > > If you want to s= tart up some discussion here, then ask a question or make a statement and a= sk if others agree with you or to refute what you say with canon, and you w= ill usually get a fairly quick response. The more controversial or thought = provoking the statement or question, the more wild the responses usually. T= his is also a great place to get info on details for your stories such as t= he distance from Tirion to Alqualonde or what Tolkien had to say about whet= her the sons of Elrond ever sailed. > > Are you interested in writing for c= hallenges or just want more stories to read? If so, I suggest you look into= the ALEC (A Long Expected Contest) challenges. They are broad in nature an= d do not "necessarily have to include canon characters but must take place= somewhere within Tolkien's world as described in The Silmarillion, The Hob= bit, or The Lord of the Rings." > > I enjoy them immensely. > > http://alon= gexpectedcontest.yolasite.com/ > > > There are a number of other challenges= , too, and maybe someon else can fill you in on them. > > Happy Reading! > = > BTW, are you expecting a boy or a girl or is it too early to tell or do y= ou even want to find out early? > > I have 4 elflings/orclings myself. > > = ellie > > > > --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "jedi_tarja"= jeditarja@ wrote: > > > > I'm on a bit of a reviewing frenzy. If anyone ha= s some story > > recommendations I would be happy to check them out. Really= anything > > goes. I've noticed that authors here have their own story lin= es which is > > great. I apologize if I read anything out of order. Where's= a good place > > to start reading here at the Silmarillion Writers Guild? = > > > > I also wanted to ask about beta readers. I noticed on some profiles= > > people marked themselves as beta readers. However, I don't feel > > co= mfortable messaging people at random to solicit their beta services, > > es= pecially since I don't know anyone here yet. What is a good way to go > > a= bout this here at the Silmarillion Writers Guild? I used to do a little > >= bit of beta reading in my other fandom and I know how much time and > > en= ergy it takes and the last thing I want to do is step on toes as a > > newb= ie. > > > > A third question I had, which is a good follow up to the prior = two, and > > that is what is a good way to go about getting involved here a= t The > > Silmarillion Writers Guild? How do I go about meeting other autho= rs? > > What do the moderators consider to be the perfect new member? Every= > > group I've been a part of runs differently and has different sets of >= > values. What quantifies a productive member here? > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3260 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15274 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2010 05:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Nov 2010 05:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ww0-f50.google.com) (74.125.82.50) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 2010 05:13:26 -0000 X-Received: by wwd20 with SMTP id 20so2832201wwd.31 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 21:13:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.227.63.7 with SMTP id z7mr140552wbh.21.1290057204736; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 21:13:24 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.227.154.70 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Nov 2010 21:13:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 00:13:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba47693d6da24004954cd9a3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Story Recomendations, Beta Advice, and How to Get Involved In This Community? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=txKC5P6WOpPQJ1EblxfJkuiwwpOooIMiM-z03e1pleFqqVYc3H1fnA X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva --90e6ba47693d6da24004954cd9a3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Tarja, First, welcome to SWG - and to the fandom. It can be a fun one. I help run an awards program called the Middle-earth Fanfiction awards. The basic idea is people review stories that have been nominated, and then those reviews are used to calculate points based on their length (so a 1,000-character review is wroth ten points, and a 700-character review is worth [I think] six points, for instance). Anyone can join up and participate in the MEFAs, but even if you don't want to participate in our awards, it's still a good way to get your toes wet in the fandom, I think. That's because you have a fairly contained set of stories that some people liked enough to nominate, and you have a lot of people reviewing those stories. Some of the stories are SWG-hosted by a lot of the same names you see on this list. Some are Silm stories posted elsewhere. And a lot are from LOTR/The Hobbit - it's open to all Tolkien-based fanfic, and movieverse fictioin as well. Of course, there's lots of good fic that isn't competng for whatever reason. I'm not saying the MEFAs are the end-all in Tolkien fanfic, or Silmfic. But it's a place to start... If this sounds like your cup of tea, poke around at www.mefawards.net/MEFA2010/. You can also email me at mefasupportATmefawardsDOTnet if you need more info or help or anything. Please email there rather than just replying here. I don't want to tie up the list with MEFA business, and I don't always get around to reading Yahoo groups. Anyway, on SWG business. You might check out the old challenges for stories on a similar theme. Akallabeth in August was great: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/ Also, based on your posts I think you might particularly enjoy two authors: Darth Fingon and pandemonium_213. They seem to have a sort of gentle disregard for canon that I think you would find stimulating, but their worlds still feel oh-so-authentic and authentically Tolkien, if you know what I mean. They're great yarns even without that consideration. (And I am sure there are other great authors worth reading at SWG; those two just jumped to mind.) Marta On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 1:18 PM, jedi_tarja wrote: > > > I'm on a bit of a reviewing frenzy. If anyone has some story > recommendations I would be happy to check them out. Really anything > goes. I've noticed that authors here have their own story lines which is > great. I apologize if I read anything out of order. Where's a good place > to start reading here at the Silmarillion Writers Guild? > > I also wanted to ask about beta readers. I noticed on some profiles > people marked themselves as beta readers. However, I don't feel > comfortable messaging people at random to solicit their beta services, > especially since I don't know anyone here yet. What is a good way to go > about this here at the Silmarillion Writers Guild? I used to do a little > bit of beta reading in my other fandom and I know how much time and > energy it takes and the last thing I want to do is step on toes as a > newbie. > > A third question I had, which is a good follow up to the prior two, and > that is what is a good way to go about getting involved here at The > Silmarillion Writers Guild? How do I go about meeting other authors? > What do the moderators consider to be the perfect new member? Every > group I've been a part of runs differently and has different sets of > values. What quantifies a productive member here? > > --90e6ba47693d6da24004954cd9a3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tarja,

First, welcome to SWG - and to the fandom. It = can be a fun one.

I help run an awards program cal= led the Middle-earth Fanfiction awards. The basic idea is people review sto= ries that have been nominated, and then those reviews are used to calculate= points based on their length (so a 1,000-character review is wroth ten poi= nts, and a 700-character review is worth [I think] six points, for instance= ).=A0

Anyone can join up and participate in the M= EFAs, but even if you don't want to participate in our awards, it's= still a good way to get your toes wet in the fandom, I think. That's b= ecause you have a fairly contained set of stories that some people liked en= ough to nominate, and you have a lot of people reviewing those stories. Som= e of the stories are SWG-hosted by a lot of the same names you see on this = list. Some are Silm stories posted elsewhere. And a lot are from LOTR/The H= obbit - it's open to all Tolkien-based fanfic, and movieverse fictioin = as well.

Of course, there's lots of good fic = that isn't competng for whatever reason. I'm not saying the MEFAs a= re the end-all in Tolkien fanfic, or Silmfic. But it's a place to start= ...=A0If this sounds like your cup of tea, poke around at www.mefawards.net/MEFA2010/. You can also= email me at mefasupportATmefawardsDOTnet if you need more info or help or = anything. Please email there rather than just replying here. I don't wa= nt to tie up the list with MEFA business, and I don't always get around= to reading Yahoo groups.

Anyway, on SWG business= . You might check out the old challenges for stories on a similar theme. Ak= allabeth in August was great:


Also= , based on your posts I think you might particularly enjoy two authors: Dar= th Fingon and pandemonium_213. They seem to have a sort of gentle disregard= for canon that I think you would find stimulating, but their worlds still = feel oh-so-authentic and authentically Tolkien, if you know what I mean. Th= ey're great yarns even without that consideration. (And I am sure there= are other great authors worth reading at SWG; those two just jumped to min= d.)

Marta

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 1:18 PM, jedi_tarja <jeditarja@yahoo.com> wrote:
=A0
=

I'm on a bit of a reviewing frenzy. If anyone has some story
r= ecommendations I would be happy to check them out. Really anything
goes= . I've noticed that authors here have their own story lines which is great. I apologize if I read anything out of order. Where's a good pl= ace
to start reading here at the Silmarillion Writers Guild?

I= also wanted to ask about beta readers. I noticed on some profiles
peop= le marked themselves as beta readers. However, I don't feel
comfort= able messaging people at random to solicit their beta services,
especia= lly since I don't know anyone here yet. What is a good way to go
ab= out this here at the Silmarillion Writers Guild? I used to do a little
= bit of beta reading in my other fandom and I know how much time and
ene= rgy it takes and the last thing I want to do is step on toes as a
newbi= e.

A third question I had, which is a good follow up to the prior = two, and
that is what is a good way to go about getting involved here a= t The
Silmarillion Writers Guild? How do I go about meeting other autho= rs?
What do the moderators consider to be the perfect new member? Every=
group I've been a part of runs differently and has different sets = of
values. What quantifies a productive member here?

<= /div>
--90e6ba47693d6da24004954cd9a3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3261 Return-Path: X-Sender: erfan.starled@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33126 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2010 14:38:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2010 14:38:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web57307.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (66.196.100.43) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2010 14:38:08 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 88012 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Nov 2010 14:38:08 -0000 Message-ID: <14298.87139.qm@web57307.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: rfY0hMkVM1kXQ.LfCxNOrHVRdxsGuFGM07x9fLicGYVZY7R As_XpwIBYplYTaGbEQyNURboEHhz2rbd1WaK_Zj_PQiNwMO8LIrFOO2t44op oj3dUjXZv40T5QNIG44s5LBpm1szP42ac_.O3U3oVfWfmn.Q735vhPUb4bWE lwCPvrJLvwaW06rfvIheSuuTHTRzxWvi79jqiZ8FKejauwUOQ7fZ1SUrRzEJ JRAhBUNujZ9TzPrLSpGF_X00._XbDQswfN886FaczCcIV1VU0sRPqJos97yZ LfQXwzHhfvjcjNDQeXRWq0__w.g336OWBnHYB57bAtQ-- X-Received: from [82.153.198.3] by web57307.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 06:38:07 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.4.9 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 06:38:07 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1449539343-1290609487=:87139" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: erfan starled Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Change in "Het" and "Slash" Warnings on the Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=310858615; y=d2Q8NP0XVkX16Be2iQb9n-RjUBvRoPvFoMS7KPKkyf-cLJk6NihaUQ X-Yahoo-Profile: erfan.starled --0-1449539343-1290609487=:87139 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This all sounds very organized, and thank you for telling me. I am happy ab= out it. Best wishes, Erfan ~~~My candle burns at both ends;It will not las= t the night;But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends - It gives a lovely light!= ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay ~ S=C3=A4lj inte skinnet f=C3=B6rr=C3=A4n bj=C3= =B6rnen =C3=A4r skjuten --- On Fri, 11/5/10, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subject: [Si= lmarillionWritersGuild] Change in "Het" and "Slash" Warnings on the Archive= To: "SWG" Date: Friday, Novembe= r 5, 2010, 2:03 PM =C2=A0 Hi, all, = About two years ago, we decided that we were no longer comfortable having= het and slash on the warnings list on the archive. We discussed it as a g= roup, and the membership of SWG chose to replace the current het and slash= warnings with a separate text field for pairing information. This require= d us to alter our archive software behind the scenes, and we clearly have = not been successful so far, considering that the pairing field has not man= ifested and the outdated het and slash warning labels persist. We have no= t given up on the pairing field and will continue to work on it. However, = we continue to believe that het and slash have no place on the warnings li= st, and so we'll be making changes to the warnings list in order to remove= these labels. This will change somewhat how stories containing same-sex a= nd opposite-sex pairings will work on the archive. Currently, as describe= d in our ratings guidelines (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/rating= s.php), stories rated Teen or Adult require warnings to clarify why the au= thor has rated them as such. It has always been our strong belief that re= aders on our archive should be able to make informed choices about the con= tent they choose to read. Because of this, authors have often felt pressur= ed to put a "het" or "slash" warning label on a story, even if they didn't= consider their story as such, because it contained same- or opposite-sex = pairings, even if they weren't central to the story. However, it is also = our strong belief that a character's sexuality is not something that deser= ves a warning. Given this, we've moved het and slash from the warnings fie= ld to the genre field. Therefore, authors are no longer required to label = a story as het or slash. If you feel that your story fits one of these gen= res, and you'd like readers to be able to find your story listed under tha= t particular genre, you are welcome to select Het or Slash/Femslash from t= he genre menu. If your story contains same- or opposite-sex pairings, but = you feel your story fits best as General, Drama, or any of the many genres= we have listed, you can choose those instead. Please remember that you ca= n select as many genres as you want for your story (hold down the CTRL key= to select more than one item from the list), so you are not limited to ch= oosing between one or the other. The genres you select are up to your dis= cretion only. The Het and Slash/Femslash genre labels are now available o= n the archive. If you have stories with the het and slash warnings on them= , you are welcome to change your own stories to remove the warnings or add= the genres, if you would like. If you'd like particular changes made to y= our stories containing het and slash warning labels but don't have time or= desire to do it for yourself at this time, please do feel free to contact= us, and we will make the changes for you. Over the next few weeks, the ot= her mods and I will be removing het and slash warning labels from all stor= ies and adding the genres instead. Once all stories are moved to the new s= ystem, we will delete the het and slash warnings. We will individually con= tact any authors whose stories we edit so that they have the option of rem= oving the genre labels, if they wish, or providing more detailed instructi= ons to us about how they'd like their stories to be listed in the archive.= As always, if you have any questions, please comment here or email us at = moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Best regards, Dawn -- ~= oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org = --0-1449539343-1290609487=:87139 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This all sounds very organized, and thank you= for telling me. I am happy about it.
Best wishes,
Erfan

~~~
My candle burns at=
 both ends;
It will not last=
 the night;
But ah, my foes,=
 and oh, my friends - 
I=
t gives a lovely light!

=

~ Edna St. Vincent Millay ~=


S=C3=A4lj =
inte skinnet f=C3=B6rr=C3=A4n bj=C3=B6rnen =C3=A4r
 skjuten
=

--- On Fri, 11/5/10, Dawn Felagund wrote:

From: Dawn Felagund <= ;DawnFelagund@gmail.com>
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Change i= n "Het" and "Slash" Warnings on the Archive
To: "SWG"
Date: Friday, November 5, 2010, 2:03 PM
 <= /span>

Hi,= all,

About two years ago, we decided that we were no longer comfort= able having het and slash on the warnings list on the archive. We discusse= d it as a group, and the membership of SWG chose to replace the current h= et and slash warnings with a separate text field for pairing information. = This required us to alter our archive software behind the scenes, and we c= learly have not been successful so far, considering that the pairing field= has not manifested and the outdated het and slash warning labels persist.=

We have not given up on the pairing field and will continue to wor= k on it. However, we continue to believe that het and slash have no place = on the warnings list, and so we'll be making changes to the warnings list = in order to remove these labels. This will change somewhat how stories con= taining same-sex and opposite-sex pairings will work on the archive.
Currently, as described in our ratings guidelines (http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/ratings.php), stories rated = Teen or Adult require warnings to clarify why the author has rated them as= such. It has always been our strong belief that readers on our archive sh= ould be able to make informed choices about the content they choose to rea= d. Because of this, authors have often felt pressured to put a "het" or "s= lash" warning label on a story, even if they didn't consider their story a= s such, because it contained same- or opposite-sex pairings, even if they = weren't central to the story.

However, it is also our strong belief= that a character's sexuality is not something that deserves a warning. Gi= ven this, we've moved het and slash from the warnings field to the genre f= ield. Therefore, authors are no longer required to label a story = as het or slash. If you feel that your story fits one of these genres, and= you'd like readers to be able to find your story listed under that partic= ular genre, you are welcome to select Het or Slash/Femslash from the genre= menu. If your story contains same- or opposite-sex pairings, but you feel= your story fits best as General, Drama, or any of the many genres we have= listed, you can choose those instead. Please remember that you can select= as many genres as you want for your story (hold down the CTRL key to sele= ct more than one item from the list), so you are not limited to choosing = between one or the other. The genres you select are up to your discretion = only.

The Het and Slash/Femslash genre labels are now available on = the archive. If you have stories with the het and slash warnings on them, = you are welcome to change your own stories to remove the warnings or add t= he genres, if you would like. If you'd like particular changes made to you= r stories containing het and slash warning labels but don't have time or d= esire to do it for yourself at this time, please do feel free to contact u= s, and we will make the changes for you. Over the next few weeks, the othe= r mods and I will be removing het and slash warning labels from all storie= s and adding the genres instead. Once all stories are moved to the new sys= tem, we will delete the het and slash warnings. We will individually conta= ct any authors whose stories we edit so that they have the option of remov= ing the genre labels, if they wish, or providing more detailed instruction= s to us about how they'd like their stories to be listed in the archive.
As always, if you have any questions, please comment here or email us= at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.

Best regards,
=
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org


--0-1449539343-1290609487=:87139-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3262 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52886 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2010 02:48:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2010 02:48:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f52.google.com) (209.85.161.52) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2010 02:48:04 -0000 X-Received: by fxm5 with SMTP id 5so6157784fxm.11 for ; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 18:48:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.125.207 with SMTP id z15mr9080646far.42.1291258082674; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 18:48:02 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.110.76 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:48:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 21:48:02 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b41554c70a0496647342 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: December 2010 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=exwmGQXoBv_RqQOaBD_7W1c7DkQUFFD_n94Bhc5PdmTmHMdtzE1E X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636c5b41554c70a0496647342 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings, all, Our December 2010 newsletter has been posted on our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/december2010.php This month's newsletter includes a biography of Ingwe by Darth Fingon. Ingwe played a prominent role in early versions of *The Silmarillion,* and these old sources provide tantalizing information on a character barely sketched in the published book. Pandemonium has contributed another of her snicker-worthy Gothmog & Draugluin comics, for those who have wondered who brings gifts to the little Hobbit children on Yule eve. And, of course, our newsletter has actual news, from within as well as beyond the SWG. :) http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/december2010.php Many thanks, as always, to our contributors and to my comods, who have made it so that "doing the newsletter" is no longer an all-day hair-tearing affair. Your contributions and help are very much appreciated! :) Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636c5b41554c70a0496647342 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all,

Our December 2010 newsletter has been posted on our = website:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/december2010.ph= p

This month's newsletter includes a biography of Ingwe by = Darth Fingon. Ingwe played a prominent role in early versions of The Sil= marillion, and these old sources provide tantalizing information on a c= haracter barely sketched in the published book. Pandemonium has contributed= another of her snicker-worthy Gothmog & Draugluin comics, for those wh= o have wondered who brings gifts to the little Hobbit children on Yule eve.=

And, of course, our newsletter has actual news, from within as wel= l as beyond the SWG. :)

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/= december2010.php

Many thanks, as always, to our contributors an= d to my comods, who have made it so that "doing the newsletter" i= s no longer an all-day hair-tearing affair. Your contributions and help are= very much appreciated! :)

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org
--001636c5b41554c70a0496647342-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3263 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84037 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2010 04:13:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2010 04:13:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f41.google.com) (209.85.161.41) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2010 04:13:41 -0000 X-Received: by fxm13 with SMTP id 13so7318499fxm.28 for ; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 20:13:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.74.198 with SMTP id v6mr2945760faj.4.1291436020847; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 20:13:40 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.110.76 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Dec 2010 20:13:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 23:13:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3043450445d96904968de134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: MEFA 2010--The End Approaches! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uFRzDGSedehRADLuyg2lC_TO8KKH6B2YMTzKLY7APDyz4OAGuaRf X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --20cf3043450445d96904968de134 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I'm passing this along on behalf of Marta, the admin of the Middle-earth Fanfic Awards. --- Voting for the 2010 MEFAs ends on December 15, at 11:59 PM GMT. THat's a little over a week away, and there's still time to get some reviewing in if you'd like. Feel free to join up and review any stories you would like. Also, if you have entered draft reviews at our website, please remember that they will not be counted unless you change them over to Hidden or Final reviews. This must be done by that December 15 deadline as well. For information on memberships at the MEFA website please see: http://community.livejournal.com/mefas/249389.html Marta MEFA Admin. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --20cf3043450445d96904968de134 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I'm passing this along on behalf of Marta, the admin of= the Middle-earth Fanfic Awards.

---

Voting for the 2010 MEFA= s ends on December 15, at 11:59 PM GMT. THat's
a little over a week= away, and there's still time to get some
reviewing in if you'd= like. =C2=A0Feel free to join up and review any
stories you would like= .

Also, if you have entered draft reviews at our website, please remember that they will not be counted unless you change them over to Hidden or Final reviews. This must be done by that December 15
deadli= ne as well.

For information on memberships at the MEFA website ple= ase see:

http://community.livejournal.com/mefas/249389.html<= /a>

Marta
MEFA Admin.

--
~oOo~
Daw= n Felagund
http:= //themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--20cf3043450445d96904968de134-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3264 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88933 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2010 14:33:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2010 14:33:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f51.google.com) (209.85.161.51) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2010 14:33:49 -0000 X-Received: by mail-fx0-f51.google.com with SMTP id 5so5707119fxm.10 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2010 06:33:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.79.66 with SMTP id o2mr4359990fak.80.1292250639521; Mon, 13 Dec 2010 06:30:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.122.66 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Dec 2010 06:30:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <78851D8D8BC749208BCEA68D8F67B0AE@acr68c5288c6ee5> References: <78851D8D8BC749208BCEA68D8F67B0AE@acr68c5288c6ee5> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 09:30:39 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba10a78354585604974b8c9a From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Odyssey Writing Workshop 2011 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=9kk7Wa6YnPQtpQBZulYCDIWDN_m1QUq0uG_qMxKaqxOsmdjQFQtJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --90e6ba10a78354585604974b8c9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Forwarded on behalf of the workshop administrator, for any writers who might be interested ... Dawn --- ODYSSEY WRITING WORKSHOP ANNOUNCES ITS 16th SUMMER SESSION * * *About Odyssey* Since its founding in 1996, Odyssey has become one of the most respected workshops in the science fiction, fantasy, and horror writing community. Odyssey is for developing writers whose work is approaching publication quality and for published writers who want to improve their work. The six-week workshop combines advanced lectures, exercises, extensive writing, and in-depth feedback on student manuscripts. Top authors, editors, and agents have served as guest lecturers, including George R. R. Martin, Harlan Ellison, Jane Yolen, Terry Brooks, Robert J. Sawyer, Ben Bova, Nancy Kress, Elizabeth Hand, Jeff VanderMeer, Donald Maass, Sheila Williams, Shawna McCarthy, Carrie Vaughn, and Dan Simmons. Fifty-three percent of Odyssey graduates go on to professional publication. The program is held every summer on Saint Anselm College's beautiful campus in Manchester, NH. Saint Anselm is one of the finest liberal arts colleges in the country, dedicated to excellence in education, and its campus provides a peaceful setting and state-of-the-art facilities for Odyssey students. College credit is available upon request. Jeanne Cavelos, Odyssey's director and primary instructor, is a best-selling author and a former senior editor at Bantam Doubleday Dell Publishing, where she won the World Fantasy Award for her work. As an editor, Cavelos worked with many different types of writers and found ways to help all of them improve their work. She provides students with insightful and constructive critiques of their work. "I give the same unflinchingly honest, concrete, detailed feedback that I provided as a senior editor," Cavelos said. Her typewritten critiques average over 1,200 words, and her handwritten line edits on manuscripts are extensive. In addition, she guides students through the six weeks, gaining in-depth knowledge of their work, providing detailed assessments of their strengths and weaknesses in private meetings, and helping them target their weaknesses one by one. Odyssey class time is split between workshopping sessions and lectures. An advanced, comprehensive curriculum covers the elements of fiction writing in depth. While feedback reveals the weaknesses in students' manuscripts, lectures teach the tools and techniques necessary to strengthen them. The workshop runs from June 6 to July 15, 2011. Class meets for four hours in the morning, five days a week. Students spend about eight hours more per day writing and critiquing each other's work. Prospective students, aged eighteen and up, apply from all over the world. The early admission application deadline is JANUARY 31, and the regular admission deadline is APRIL 8. Tuition is $1900, and housing is $775 for a double room and $1550 for a single. * * *Meet Our 2011 Writer-in-Residence* Odyssey's 2011 writer-in-residence is award-winning author Gary A. Braunbeck. Braunbeck has published 25 books, over 200 short stories, and co-edited 2 anthologies. Though he is best known as a writer of dark fantasy and horror, he has also published in the fields of mystery, suspense, science fiction, fantasy, bizarro, Western, and mainstream literature. His work has won numerous awards. But most important, Gary is an experienced and highly praised teacher and mentor. Gary serves as an adjunct professor at Seton Hill University's Master's program in Writing Popular Fiction. He has also taught writing seminars and workshops around the country *Other Guest Lecturers* The 2011 workshop has an exciting line-up of award-winning guest lecturers, who also happen to be some of the top teachers in the field: authors Elizabeth Bear, Barry B. Longyear, Theodora Goss, and Christopher Golden; and editor John Joseph Adams. *Odyssey Graduates* Graduates of the Odyssey Writing Workshop have been published in the top fiction magazines and by the top book publishers in the field. You can find their stories in recent issues of many magazines, including *Realms of Fantasy*, *Analog*, *Asimov's*, *Weird Tales*, *Orson Scott Card's Intergalactic Medicine Show, *and *Fantasy Magazine*; and in recent anthologies, including *Wild Cards I*, *The Living Dead 2*, *Blood Lite 2*, and *Full Moon City*. Recent novels published by Odyssey graduates include *Kitty Goes to War* and *Discord's Apple* by Carrie Vaughn, published by Tor Books; *Dark Designs* by Luisa Prieto, published by MLR Press; *Kings and Assassins* by Lane Robins, published by Del Rey; *Foxfire* by Barbara Campbell, published by DAW; *The Bastard Queen* by Elaine Isaak, published by Swimming Kangaroo Books; and *Ghosts and Echoes* by Lyn Benedict, published by Ace Books. Rhiannon Held, a graduate of the 2006 workshop, just sold her first novel, * Silver*, and two sequels to Tor. She describes her development as a writer this way: "What I was missing was the bigger picture. . . . That's what Odyssey and Jeanne Cavelos gave me. Looking back, I wouldn't tell you that Odyssey taught me plot, or Odyssey taught me dialogue. It did, of course, very good plot and very good dialogue, but more importantly it taught me to think about writing, and to learn about writing. It gave me a fundamental mindset that has helped me learn after Odyssey, and keep learning even now. . . . Odyssey gave me the thinking and learning skills to succeed." *Comments from the Class of 2010* "I've taken part in other writing programs, and I can attest to the fact that Odyssey is in a different league. . . . I am so exhausted, but so happy to have experienced Odyssey. I would do it again in a heartbeat. And I wish I *could* do it again. I wholeheartedly recommend Odyssey to any writers who are dedicated to seriously improving their craft." --Meira Marom "Odyssey is tougher and more intense than any workshop or writer's conference I've attended. By having one mentor and total immersion, I've made more breakthroughs in six weeks at Odyssey than in two years in an MFA program. Jeanne is thoughtful and compassionate, but doesn't let students get away with anything. Her insightfulness and dedication are Odyssey's greatest resources." --Eileen Wiedbrauk *Other Odyssey Resources and Services* The Odyssey Web site, www.odysseyworkshop.org , offers many resources for writers, including online classes, a critique service, free podcasts, writing and publishing tips, and a weekly writing LiveJournal, as well as more information about how to apply. Those interested in applying to the workshop should visit the Web site, phone (603) 673-6234, or e-mail jcavelos@sff.net. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --90e6ba10a78354585604974b8c9a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forwarded on behalf of the workshop administrator, for any writers who migh= t be interested ...

Dawn

---

=C2=A0

OD= YSSEY WRITING WORKSHOP

ANNOUNCES ITS 16th SUMMER SESSION

=C2=A0<= /font>

About Odyssey=

Since its founding in 1996, = Odyssey has become one of the most respected workshops in the science ficti= on, fantasy, and horror writing community.=C2=A0 Odyssey is for developing = writers whose work is approaching publication quality and for published wri= ters who want to improve their work.=C2=A0 The six-week workshop combines a= dvanced lectures, exercises, extensive writing, and in-depth feedback on st= udent manuscripts.=C2=A0 Top authors, editors, and agents have served as gu= est lecturers, including George R. R. Martin, Harlan Ellison, Jane Yolen, T= erry Brooks, Robert J. Sawyer, Ben Bova, Nancy Kress, Elizabeth Hand, Jeff = VanderMeer, Donald Maass, Sheila Williams, Shawna McCarthy, Carrie Vaughn, = and Dan Simmons.=C2=A0 Fifty-three percent of Odyssey graduates go on to pr= ofessional publication.=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

The program is held every = summer on Saint Anselm College's beautiful campus in Manchester, NH.=C2= =A0 Saint Anselm is one of the finest liberal arts colleges in the country,= dedicated to excellence in education, and its campus provides a peaceful s= etting and state-of-the-art facilities for Odyssey students.=C2=A0 College = credit is available upon request.

=C2=A0

Jeanne Cavelos, Odyssey&#= 39;s director and primary instructor, is a best-selling author and a former= senior editor at Bantam Doubleday Dell Publishing, where she won the World= Fantasy Award for her work.=C2=A0 As an editor, Cavelos worked with many d= ifferent types of writers and found ways to help all of them improve their = work.=C2=A0 She provides students with insightful and constructive critique= s of their work.=C2=A0 "I give the same unflinchingly honest, concrete= , detailed feedback that I provided as a senior editor," Cavelos said.= =C2=A0 Her typewritten critiques average over 1,200 words, and her handwrit= ten line edits on manuscripts are extensive.=C2=A0 In addition, she guides = students through the six weeks, gaining in-depth knowledge of their work, p= roviding detailed assessments of their strengths and weaknesses in private = meetings, and helping them target their weaknesses one by one.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Odyssey class time is split between workshopping sessions and le= ctures.=C2=A0 An advanced, comprehensive curriculum covers the elements of = fiction writing in depth. =C2=A0While feedback reveals the weaknesses in st= udents' manuscripts, lectures teach the tools and techniques necessary = to strengthen them.=C2=A0

=C2=A0=

The workshop runs from June 6 to= July 15, 2011.=C2=A0 Class meets for four hours in the morning, five days = a week.=C2=A0 Students spend about eight hours more per day writing and cri= tiquing each other's work.=C2=A0 Prospective students, aged eighteen an= d up, apply from all over the world.=C2=A0 The early admission application = deadline is JANUARY 31, and the regular admission deadline is APRIL 8.=C2= =A0 Tuition is $1900, and housing is $775 for a double room and $1550 for a= single.

= =C2=A0

Meet Our 2011 Writer-in-Residence

Odyssey's 2011 writer-in-residence is award-winning author Gary A= . Braunbeck. =C2=A0Braunbeck has published 25 books, over 200 short stories= , and co-edited 2 anthologies. =C2=A0Though he is best known as a writer of= dark fantasy and horror, he has also published in the fields of mystery, s= uspense, science fiction, fantasy, bizarro, Western, and mainstream literat= ure. =C2=A0His work has won numerous awards. But most important, Gary is an= experienced and highly praised teacher and mentor. =C2=A0Gary serves as an= adjunct professor at Seton Hill University's Master's program in = Writing Popular Fiction. He has also taught writing seminars and workshops = around the country

=C2=A0<= /font>

Other Guest Lec= turers

The 2011 workshop has = an exciting line-up of award-winning guest lecturers, who also happen to be= some of the top teachers in the field:=C2=A0 authors Elizabeth Bear, Barry= B. Longyear, Theodora Goss, and Christopher Golden; and editor John Joseph= Adams.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Odyssey Graduates

Graduates of the Odyssey Writing= Workshop have been published in the top fiction magazines and by the top b= ook publishers in the field.=C2=A0 You can find their stories in recent iss= ues of many magazines, including Rea= lms of Fantasy, Analog, Asimov's, <= i>Weird Tales, Orson Scott Card's Intergalactic Medicine Sho= w, and Fantasy Magazine; and in recent anthologies, including Wild Cards I, The Living Dead 2, Blood= Lite 2, and Full Moon Ci= ty.=C2=A0 Recent novels published by Odyssey graduates include <= i>Kitty Goes to War and <= span style=3D"font-style: italic;">Discord's Apple by Carrie= Vaughn, published by Tor Books; Dar= k Designs by Luisa Prieto, published by MLR Press; Kings and Assassins by Lane Robins, pu= blished by Del Rey; Foxfire by Barbara Campbell, published by DAW; The Bastard Queen by Elaine Isaak, published by Swimming K= angaroo Books; and Ghosts and Echoes= by Lyn Benedict, published by Ace Books.

=C2=A0

Rhia= nnon Held, a graduate of the 2006 workshop, just sold her first novel, <= span style=3D"font-style: italic;">Silver, and two sequels to To= r.=C2=A0

She describes her devel= opment as a writer this way:=C2=A0 "What I was missing was the bigger = picture. . . . =C2=A0That's what Odyssey and Jeanne Cavelos gave me. Lo= oking back, I wouldn't tell you that Odyssey taught me plot, or Odyssey= taught me dialogue. =C2=A0It did, of course, very good plot and very good = dialogue, but more importantly it taught me to think about writing, and to = learn about writing. =C2=A0It gave me a fundamental mindset that has helped= me learn after Odyssey, and keep learning even now. . . .=C2=A0 Odyssey ga= ve me the thinking and learning skills to succeed."

=

=C2=A0

Comments from the Class of 2010

=

= "I've taken part in other writing= programs, and I can attest to the fact that Odyssey is in a different leag= ue. . . .=C2=A0 I am so exhausted, but so happy to have experienced Odyssey= .=C2=A0 I would do it again in a heartbeat.=C2=A0 And I wish I could do it again.=C2=A0 I wholeheart= edly recommend Odyssey to any writers who are dedicated to seriously improv= ing their craft."=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --Meira Marom

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0<= /font>

"Odyssey is tougher and more intense than any workshop or writer&= #39;s conference I've attended.=C2=A0 By having one mentor and total im= mersion, I've made more breakthroughs in six weeks at Odyssey than in t= wo years in an MFA program.=C2=A0 Jeanne is thoughtful and compassionate, b= ut doesn't let students get away with anything.=C2=A0 Her insightfulnes= s and dedication are Odyssey's greatest resources.&qu= ot;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --Eileen Wi= edbrauk

=C2=A0

Other Odyssey Resources and Services

The Odyssey Web site, www.odysseyworks= hop.org, offers many resources for writers, including online classes, a= critique service, free podcasts, writing and publishing tips, and a weekly= writing LiveJournal, as well as more information about how to apply.=C2=A0= Those interested in applying to the workshop should visit the Web site, ph= one (603) 673-6234, or e-mail jcavelos@sff.net.=C2=A0

=C2=A0




--
~o= Oo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--90e6ba10a78354585604974b8c9a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3265 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 88924 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2010 23:46:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2010 23:46:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n41b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.155) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2010 23:46:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1292370415; bh=dE4SHtgMQ93I5jRTqwySP5HMI/I2g+t21onMCqD3zY8=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=i+B9/XY4sZr2e5F0pE4UOh4uJCy7cfJkGQShokE8WnbBXX5iv0pq494J5pwnTDhnml4QUm7yq4neWgyiBq1Nirlh0nymIoOTeTO8JMhXaM8aUD4sqgG5xWEN+/QMknFK Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2010 23:46:55 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2010 23:46:55 -0000 X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27545 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2010 23:45:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m15.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2010 23:45:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2010 23:45:53 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2010 23:45:52 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2010 23:45:52 -0000 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 23:45:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system From: "Red" Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2011- Signups beginning today! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=nga-QM_ceK2ZOI-vMJ5CsZ0yvmfyZv3f0OgU8zBNk4yDDfh8I2l5 X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 14 Dec 2010 23:46:54 -0000 Thanks to Dawn who allowed me to post this here! we'd love to have lots 'o = First Age (and Second Age) Fics to read and write. Please consider particip= ating! ---- >From the Years of the Trees through the Fourth Age =96 it's t= ime once again to make your Tolkien FPS fanfic dreams come true=85 Have yo= u always wanted to read a certain pairing or scenario, but couldn't write i= t yourself? Or have a plot bunny that's been rolling around in your mind, b= ut just can't see yourself writing that particular story? Have it written = for you =96 specifically and especially for your own sweet self! And share = your own fic gift in exchange - That's right, it's time for My Slashy Vale= ntine brought to you by the same folks who sponsor the renowned Slashy Sant= a and Jinglebells in June Fiction Exchange. Once again, the exchange will = focus solely on the Elves, Man, Valar and Maiar of J.R.R. Tolkien's legenda= rium. Maybe it's Legolas and Haldir you love, or perhaps Aragorn-on-Halbara= d strikes your fancy... or maybe Manwe; is your main man =96 from the First= Age to the Fourth =96 spread the word, recruit your friends and fellow aut= hors, and have some fun! Sign-ups begin Tuesday, December 14, 2011 and wil= l close at midnight (GMT-5:00) on Tuesday, December 21, 2011. For first tim= e participants, stories will be due by January 31st, and for returning writ= ers they will be due on February 7th. They will be unveiled on the Slashy S= anta site (http://www.slashysanta.com/eFiction) on Monday, February 14th. = How does a fiction exchange work? It's simple. READ THE RULES posted at (ht= tp://community.livejournal.com/slashy_santa/59960.html) and you will find a= link to the sign-up page where you may specify a pairing, rating, and the = plot elements you would like to read, as well as the elements you are willi= ng to write, and someone will write a story for you. In exchange, you will = write a story for someone else using the specifications they provide. Eve= n if you don't want to take part in the exchange, you can still elect to be= a reserve writer to be called upon in case of an emergency. Just say so on= the signup form. All we ask is that you adhere to some basic rules =96 If= you sign up, please make sure that you can follow through and write at lea= st 1,200 words. Please note also that this is a SLASH only FPS exchange (no= RPS or het, please). PLEASE NOTE: If you have defaulted in previous years= , you will NOT be allowed to participate this year! These stories are gifts= for your friends and fellow fans, and it is incredibly disappointing for a= participant who has worked hard to turn in their own story only to find th= at we have nothing to give them. There will be no exceptions to this rule. = Visit http://www.slashysanta.com/rules.html for the full set of rules and = Frequently Asked Questions. Here are some important dates to make note of:= ***Dec. 14th - 21st : Sign-up period ***Dec 28th: Assignments delivered **= *Jan. 31st: Stories due from first time participants ***Feb. 7th: Stories d= ue from returning writers ***Feb. 14th: Archive opens Come check out our s= ite at http://www.slashysanta.com/eFiction and peruse some of the past entr= ies =96 they're terrific and will give you an idea of what's in store! Hop= e to see you there! The Admins `'Tis Always the Season for Slash!' From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3266 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85227 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2010 16:22:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2010 16:22:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f50.google.com) (209.85.161.50) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2010 16:22:51 -0000 X-Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14so1588632fxm.37 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2010 08:22:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.103.3 with SMTP id i3mr2469812fao.137.1292689370243; Sat, 18 Dec 2010 08:22:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.122.66 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Dec 2010 08:22:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:22:50 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3054a555b7e4300497b1b248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: MEFA Announcement: And the Winners Are ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=OadbQJbWTbJdHufCWH-KgewvChhzF4LujLp8URP0OnKVpcK27Llw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --20cf3054a555b7e4300497b1b248 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I am passing this on on behalf of Marta, the MEFA admin. Congratulations to all of our members who participated in this year's MEFAs! :) Dawn --- The results for the 2010 MEFAs are now posted! You can find them at http://community.livejournal.com/mefas/263614.html Congratulations to all the many talented authors on this list. And to the many talented authors who *aren't* on this list - the MEFAs are usually an embarrassment of riches, nominations-wise, and this year was no exception. Also, thank you to everyone who works so hard to pull off this program. This includes formal volunteers (liaisons, promoters, and so on) but also the people who participate by nominating, reviewing, and letting their stories compete. This awards program wouldn't happen without all of you. We are looking forward to the 2011 awards, which will start again probably in late spring/early summer. In the mean time, you can start thinking about what you will want to nominate for next year. (The cycle never ends, really!) If you have suggestions for how we can improve things next year, please email mefasupportATgmailDOTcom to discuss them. Marta (MEFA Admin.) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --20cf3054a555b7e4300497b1b248 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am passing this on on behalf of Marta, the MEFA admin. Congratulations to= all of our members who participated in this year's MEFAs! :)

Da= wn

---

The results for the 2010 MEFAs are now posted! You can= find them at

http://community.livejournal.com/mefas/263614= .html

Congratulations to all the many talented authors on this= list. And to the
many talented authors who *aren't* on this list -= the MEFAs are usually an
embarrassment of riches, nominations-wise, an= d this year was no exception.

Also, thank you to everyone who work= s so hard to pull off this program. This
includes formal volunteers (li= aisons, promoters, and so on) but also the
people who participate by no= minating, reviewing, and letting their stories
compete. This awards pro= gram wouldn't happen without all of you.

We are looking forwar= d to the 2011 awards, which will start again probably
in late spring/ea= rly summer. In the mean time, you can start thinking about
what you wil= l want to nominate for next year. (The cycle never ends,
really!) If yo= u have suggestions for how we can improve things next year,
please emai= l mefasupportATgmailDOTcom to discuss them.
Marta
(MEFA Admin.)

--
~oOo~
Dawn = Felagund
http://= themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--20cf3054a555b7e4300497b1b248-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3267 Return-Path: X-Sender: phyncke@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11900 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2010 19:16:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m15.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2010 19:16:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-yw0-f44.google.com) (209.85.213.44) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2010 19:16:14 -0000 X-Received: by ywk9 with SMTP id 9so809055ywk.3 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:16:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.90.118.2 with SMTP id q2mr3714811agc.11.1292699773955; Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:16:13 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.90.187.18 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:16:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:16:13 -0800 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016362836e8d3efac0497b41e7e From: Jane Fink Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] MEFA Announcement: And the Winners Are ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=465758493; y=5hn60V4yQB6yw2Va-Oasv9AO7v8IAAbLZbTUFYVj6YuJ X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --0016362836e8d3efac0497b41e7e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable congrats to all the winners and to those who participated in all capacities= . --jane (phyncke) On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > > I am passing this on on behalf of Marta, the = MEFA admin. Congratulations to > all of our members who participated in thi= s year's MEFAs! :) > > Dawn > > --- > > The results for the 2010 MEFAs are = now posted! You can find them at > > http://community.livejournal.com/mefas= /263614.html > > Congratulations to all the many talented authors on this l= ist. And to the > many talented authors who *aren't* on this list - the MEF= As are usually an > embarrassment of riches, nominations-wise, and this yea= r was no exception. > > Also, thank you to everyone who works so hard to pu= ll off this program. > This > includes formal volunteers (liaisons, promote= rs, and so on) but also the > people who participate by nominating, reviewi= ng, and letting their stories > compete. This awards program wouldn't happe= n without all of you. > > We are looking forward to the 2011 awards, which = will start again probably > in late spring/early summer. In the mean time, = you can start thinking about > what you will want to nominate for next year= . (The cycle never ends, > really!) If you have suggestions for how we can = improve things next year, > please email mefasupportATgmailDOTcom to discus= s them. > > Marta > (MEFA Admin.) > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://t= hemidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg > > --0016362836e8d3efac0497b41e7e Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable congrats to all the winners and to those who participated in all capacities= . --jane (phyncke)

On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 = at 8:22 AM, Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0
=

I am passing this on on behalf of Marta, t= he MEFA admin. Congratulations to all of our members who participated in th= is year's MEFAs! :)

Dawn

---

The results for the 2= 010 MEFAs are now posted! You can find them at

http://comm= unity.livejournal.com/mefas/263614.html

Congratulations to all= the many talented authors on this list. And to the
many talented autho= rs who *aren't* on this list - the MEFAs are usually an
embarrassme= nt of riches, nominations-wise, and this year was no exception.

Al= so, thank you to everyone who works so hard to pull off this program. This<= br> includes formal volunteers (liaisons, promoters, and so on) but also th= e
people who participate by nominating, reviewing, and letting their st= ories
compete. This awards program wouldn't happen without all of y= ou.

We are looking forward to the 2011 awards, which will start ag= ain probably
in late spring/early summer. In the mean time, you can sta= rt thinking about
what you will want to nominate for next year. (The cy= cle never ends,
really!) If you have suggestions for how we can improve= things next year,
please email mefasupportATgmailDOTcom to discuss the= m.

Marta
(MEFA Admin.)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/hereti= c_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

=

--0016362836e8d3efac0497b41e7e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3268 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80207 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2010 23:13:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2010 23:13:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2010 23:13:10 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2010 23:13:10 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2010 23:13:10 -0000 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 23:13:10 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Red" Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2011 - Two Days Left! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=TqIed9iILfIzJu5U-mdA4kz_KgHMfRIOSw13lgeWboyLbk70J2qy X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin >From the Years of the Trees through the Fourth Age =96 it's time once again= to make your Tolkien FPS fanfic dreams come true=85 Just a reminder for a= nyone interested in the My Slashy Valentine fiction swap, there are 2 days = left to sign-up - the more, the merrier! Important Dates: Sign-up period: = December 14 - December 21 Assignments to be distributed: by December 28 Dea= dline for first-time participants: January 31, 2010 Deadline for returning = participants: February 7, 2010 Archive opens: February 14, 2010 If you're = interested, here's the link: http://community.livejournal.com/slashy_santa= /59960.html My Slashy Valentine Admin From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3269 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40962 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2010 13:35:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2010 13:35:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f51.google.com) (209.85.161.51) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2010 13:35:38 -0000 X-Received: by fxm5 with SMTP id 5so2755228fxm.10 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 05:35:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.79.66 with SMTP id o2mr4699726fak.80.1292852135846; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 05:35:35 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.122.66 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 05:35:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:35:35 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba10a7834de44a0497d79813 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Archive Software Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=D_ItnRmlkvlpIlcmgH9FDTp8hgVu-KsMKXCcQLnENJiEDURaB4Ti X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --90e6ba10a7834de44a0497d79813 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings, all, This morning, Rhapsody upgraded the software on our archive to the newest version. While everything looks to be running as it should, if you notice anything that seems wrong, please do let us know. Little bugs usually slip into new versions of the software. We did have one unusual thing happen that I've had happen as well on another site I manage that uses the same software as the SWG. While posting a test story this morning under our test account, Rhapsody noticed it didn't show up on the Most Recent list. Instead, it went into the "validation queue," which means that it was waiting for admin approval before showing up on the site. We do not require validation on the archive and never have. All of the settings are correct on our end, so we're not sure why this happened but will be looking into it. When I tried adding a test story just a few minutes ago, everything worked as it should. If you post a story and don't see it show up on the Most Recent list, this is likely what happened. I will be making it part of my daily site chores to check the admin page for any stories that were incorrectly sent for validation. Please do feel free to drop us a note as well, if you notice this happens to your story, at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. (You can email any of us privately as well, but the mod account reaches multiple mods, so problems reported there tend to get handled fastest.) In good news, it appears that a few pesky problems have been fixed. Problems reported with using the text editor with later editions of Microsoft Office seem to have been resolved. The subseries bug--not being allowed to add more than one subseries to a parent series--seems to have been resolved as well. If anyone continues to have problems with these things, just give us a shout. One lingering harmless-but-annoying issue: When you preview a story, that story shows up as belonging to the last series added to the website. (Right now, that's Himring's "Doom, Gloom, and Maedhros.") *The story is not actually added to that series.* Go ahead and add the story, and the listing on the archive will display correctly. If you want to add the story to a series, you will need to go about it using the Manage Series page, like usual. As always, if there are any questions or problems, just let us know! Happy holidays, all! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --90e6ba10a7834de44a0497d79813 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all,

This morning, Rhapsody upgraded the software on our = archive to the newest version. While everything looks to be running as it s= hould, if you notice anything that seems wrong, please do let us know. Litt= le bugs usually slip into new versions of the software.

We did have= one unusual thing happen that I've had happen as well on another site = I manage that uses the same software as the SWG. While posting a test story= this morning under our test account, Rhapsody noticed it didn't show u= p on the Most Recent list. Instead, it went into the "validation queue= ," which means that it was waiting for admin approval before showing u= p on the site. We do not require validation on the archive and never have. = All of the settings are correct on our end, so we're not sure why this = happened but will be looking into it. When I tried adding a test story just= a few minutes ago, everything worked as it should.

If you post a s= tory and don't see it show up on the Most Recent list, this is likely w= hat happened. I will be making it part of my daily site chores to check the= admin page for any stories that were incorrectly sent for validation. Plea= se do feel free to drop us a note as well, if you notice this happens to yo= ur story, at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. (You can email = any of us privately as well, but the mod account reaches multiple mods, so = problems reported there tend to get handled fastest.)

In good news,= it appears that a few pesky problems have been fixed. Problems reported wi= th using the text editor with later editions of Microsoft Office seem to ha= ve been resolved. The subseries bug--not being allowed to add more than one= subseries to a parent series--seems to have been resolved as well. If anyo= ne continues to have problems with these things, just give us a shout.
=
One lingering harmless-but-annoying issue: When you preview a story, th= at story shows up as belonging to the last series added to the website. (Ri= ght now, that's Himring's "Doom, Gloom, and Maedhros.") <= i>The story is not actually added to that series. Go ahead and add the = story, and the listing on the archive will display correctly. If you want t= o add the story to a series, you will need to go about it using the Manage = Series page, like usual.

As always, if there are any questions or p= roblems, just let us know! Happy holidays, all!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org
--90e6ba10a7834de44a0497d79813-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3270 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16680 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2010 17:59:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2010 17:59:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f45.google.com) (209.85.215.45) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2010 17:59:18 -0000 X-Received: by ewy10 with SMTP id 10so2329164ewy.32 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 09:59:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.213.17.205 with SMTP id t13mr6068845eba.75.1292954356406; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 09:59:16 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.213.11.18 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 09:59:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 12:59:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, lotrallslash@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1fc101fdaee0497ef65eb From: Red Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2011 - Last Call! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=bD2mBn9Tomaa0sPOWxemf8uYNSAm8FSXW8_jzSmszG07A1Jy3Clw X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --000e0cd1fc101fdaee0497ef65eb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 My Slashy Valentine 2011 (Tolkien fandom, all Ages, FPS only) sign-ups end tonight at midnight. If you were thinking of signing up, now's the time to take the jump. We'd be happy to have you! Important Dates: Sign-up period: December 14 - December 21 Assignments to be distributed: by December 28 Deadline for first-time participants: January 31, 2010 Deadline for returning participants: February 7, 2010 Archive opens: February 14, 2010 Here's the sign-up post and rules: http://community.livejournal.com/slashy_santa/59960.html t Slashy Admin --000e0cd1fc101fdaee0497ef65eb Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My Slashy Valentine 2011 (Tolkien fandom, all Ages, FPS only) sign-ups= end tonight at midnight. If you were thinking of signing up, now's the= time to take the jump. We'd be happy to have you!

=
Important Dates:
Sign-up period: December 14 - December 21<= /div>
Assignments to be distributed: by December 28
Deadline = for first-time participants: January 31, 2010
Deadline for return= ing participants: February 7, 2010
Archive opens: February 14, 2= 010

Here's the sign-up post and rules:
htt= p://community.livejournal.com/slashy_santa/59960.html
t
Slashy Admin

--000e0cd1fc101fdaee0497ef65eb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3271 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35067 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2010 16:04:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Dec 2010 16:04:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2010 16:04:32 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Dec 2010 16:01:33 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Dec 2010 16:01:10 -0000 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:01:09 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1-3257134510-1754911079=:9" X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "Doc Bushwell" Subject: MEFA 2010 -- Thanks to my fellow Silm-folk! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=_XR2jqkJA9flFOLGHccGlseL9CN3LW6TDEu2gi-LnHfrFLYt8ETM2609 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 --1-3257134510-1754911079=:9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First, please allow me to stand and applaud the tremendous contributions of= the MEFA 2010 volunteers. You never cease to amaze me with your excellenc= e in running the awards every year. It's a labor of love that so many of u= s appreciate. This is a bit belated on my part, but the thanks are no less = sincere. I'm grateful for the tremendous and continued support I have recei= ved since entering this nutty hobby (to which I am thoroughly addicted) in = 2007. I hope to thank you individually through the official auspices of MEF= A for your reviews of my stories in the 2010 competition. However, if I stu= mble, bumble, and do not manage to do so in these waning days of 2010, plea= se be assured that your reviews and the very fact that you have even read m= y out-on-a-limb interpretations (*ahem* critique in the guise of fan fic) o= f Tolkien's legendarium are greatly appreciated. Of course, the danger here= is that you've incited my Dark Muse (a very controlling sort of fellow), w= ho will no doubt goad me into writing more. ;^) Thanks to a new job and rel= ocating (not to mention a major deadline at year's end), I fell shamefully = short in reviewing this year. However, I know where to find your stories!= I hope to do a better job of "paying it forward" next year. A special th= anks and significant huggage go to Beruthiel's Cats for creating the fabulo= us banners. MEFA 2010 Award Collage; pandemonium_213 --1-3257134510-1754911079=:9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is a bit belated on my part, but the thanks are = no less sincere. I'm grateful for the tremendous and continued support I ha= ve received since entering this nutty hobby (to which I am thoroughly addic= ted) in 2007. I hope to thank you individually through the official auspice= s of MEFA for your reviews of my stories in the 2010 competition. However, = if I stumble, bumble, and do not manage to do so in these waning days of 20= 10, please be assured that your reviews and the very fact that you have eve= n read my out-on-a-limb interpretations (*ahem* critique in the guise of fa= n fic) of Tolkien's legendarium are greatly appreciated. Of course, the dan= ger here is that you've incited my Dark Muse (a very controlling sort of fe= llow), who will no doubt goad me into writing more. ;^)

Thanks to a new job an= d relocating (not to mention a major deadline at year's end), I fell shamef= ully short in reviewing this year.   However, I know where to find you= r stories!  I hope to do a better job of "paying it forward" next year= .

A special thanks and significant huggage go to Beruthiel's Ca= ts for creating the fabulous banners.

--1-3257134510-1754911079=:9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3272 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79664 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2011 03:36:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2011 03:36:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f42.google.com) (209.85.161.42) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2011 03:36:31 -0000 X-Received: by fxm11 with SMTP id 11so16285463fxm.15 for ; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:36:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.98.198 with SMTP id r6mr4142693fan.42.1294198590132; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:36:30 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.122.66 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Jan 2011 19:36:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 22:36:30 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30433fa43bd29c04991117fa From: Dawn Felagund Subject: January 2011 Newsletter (Finally!) Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=gD6x_iL5g4r5egYKkwJWBSVECtbThhqAD0qQ5iMQU9-3t3zvNLFa X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --20cf30433fa43bd29c04991117fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Thanks to holiday obligations among our contributors (including me), the newsletter is a bit later than usual this month, but it is at last posted! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/january2011.php I took on the Character of the Month biography this month and wrote about Vana, a woman who receives only the barest mentions in the published text but who has quite an intriguing history in the earliest versions of the myth. Pandemonium has contributed a new Gothmog and Draugluin comic in which our heroes go out and play in the snow ... or at least attempt to. In news, we have updates about the Library of Tirion and our recent software upgrade. We've added a new essay to our Reference Library, "Chronology of the Silmarillion," by clotho123, a valuable reference for sorting out timeframes in the myriad and often confusing timelines that Tolkien created. And we mods have written our annual New Year's letter, looking back at another successful year on the group and looking ahead to our goals for 2011. In challenges, we have a new challenge, revisit an old challenge, and have a new quote for consideration and inspiration. Finally, in Around the World and Web, we present announcements from other Tolkien groups. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/january2011.php Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --20cf30433fa43bd29c04991117fa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Thanks to holiday obligations among our contributors (inclu= ding me), the newsletter is a bit later than usual this month, but it is at= last posted!

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/january2011= .php

I took on the Character of the Month biography this month = and wrote about Vana, a woman who receives only the barest mentions in the = published text but who has quite an intriguing history in the earliest vers= ions of the myth. Pandemonium has contributed a new Gothmog and Draugluin c= omic in which our heroes go out and play in the snow ... or at least attemp= t to.

In news, we have updates about the Library of Tirion and our = recent software upgrade. We've added a new essay to our Reference Libra= ry, "Chronology of the Silmarillion," by clotho123, a valuable re= ference for sorting out timeframes in the myriad and often confusing timeli= nes that Tolkien created. And we mods have written our annual New Year'= s letter, looking back at another successful year on the group and looking = ahead to our goals for 2011.

In challenges, we have a new challenge= , revisit an old challenge, and have a new quote for consideration and insp= iration. Finally, in Around the World and Web, we present announcements fro= m other Tolkien groups.

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/= january2011.php

Enjoy!

Dawn

--
~= oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org<= /a>
--20cf30433fa43bd29c04991117fa-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3273 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44041 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2011 22:22:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2011 22:22:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f53.google.com) (209.85.161.53) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2011 22:22:54 -0000 X-Received: by fxm11 with SMTP id 11so10450267fxm.40 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 14:22:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.83.144 with SMTP id f16mr11637421fal.4.1294266172984; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 14:22:52 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.122.66 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:22:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:22:52 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3054a7377c4fc4049920d3bf X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Character of the Month Substitutes X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Xyax8d4OJ4L27dzBY45bY6jRevb56ScYRSsDKqzzTREeqndLXvr_ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --20cf3054a7377c4fc4049920d3bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I was talking over email with someone today, and our conversation made me realize that it's been a while since I posted an announcement about how we work substitutes for the Character of the Month biography. Normally, Oshun writes the biography for us, but it's really an intense job to write the kinds of essays she creates for us on a monthly basis so, understandably, she occasionally asks for a month off. When this happens, I contact members who have expressed an interest in being a substitute writer for the CotM biography. Who can be a substitute? Anyone! There are no qualifications, and you aren't agreeing to write anything, just expressing an interest in knowing when we need writers. Since I only ask for a substitute two or three times a year, it's not like potential subs get spammed with mail from me either. The biographies themselves are fairly open-ended. You can choose the character you want to write about, as long as that character hasn't already been featured for a biography or claimed by another writer. (The exception to that are the Feanorians, except Feanor and Caranthir, whose only biographies are those I created for Seven in '07 some time ago. I'd like to add proper biographies for those characters, so they remain available.) The biography should give a basic summary of what the character does in the published book, aimed at an audience who isn't very familiar with *The Silmarillion* and wants a review of a particular character's traits and deeds for, say, a story where that character plays a minor role. After that, the approach of the bio is up to the author. Past biographies have looked at the character's evolution over the course of a lifetime of Tolkien's writings, how characters represent important themes in the book, how characters support or not various critical perspectives (i.e., feminist approaches to Tolkien's stories), and linguistic perspectives relating to that character. Those certainly aren't the only approaches. As always for essays found in our Reference Library, while personal theories are welcome, they should be backed up with evidence from the texts. Citing sources is required. My comods and I are available to help authors as needed as well, and all essays are copyedited when I put together the newsletter. So, if you're interested in being added to the substitute list, please let me know: either respond to this email or contact me privately. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --20cf3054a7377c4fc4049920d3bf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I was talking over email with someone today, and our conver= sation made me realize that it's been a while since I posted an announc= ement about how we work substitutes for the Character of the Month biograph= y. Normally, Oshun writes the biography for us, but it's really an inte= nse job to write the kinds of essays she creates for us on a monthly basis = so, understandably, she occasionally asks for a month off.

When thi= s happens, I contact members who have expressed an interest in being a subs= titute writer for the CotM biography. Who can be a substitute? Anyone! Ther= e are no qualifications, and you aren't agreeing to write anything, jus= t expressing an interest in knowing when we need writers. Since I only ask = for a substitute two or three times a year, it's not like potential sub= s get spammed with mail from me either.

The biographies themselves = are fairly open-ended. You can choose the character you want to write about= , as long as that character hasn't already been featured for a biograph= y or claimed by another writer. (The exception to that are the Feanorians, = except Feanor and Caranthir, whose only biographies are those I created for= Seven in '07 some time ago. I'd like to add proper biographies for= those characters, so they remain available.) The biography should give a b= asic summary of what the character does in the published book, aimed at an = audience who isn't very familiar with The Silmarillion and wants= a review of a particular character's traits and deeds for, say, a stor= y where that character plays a minor role. After that, the approach of the = bio is up to the author. Past biographies have looked at the character'= s evolution over the course of a lifetime of Tolkien's writings, how ch= aracters represent important themes in the book, how characters support or = not various critical perspectives (i.e., feminist approaches to Tolkien'= ;s stories), and linguistic perspectives relating to that character. Those = certainly aren't the only approaches. As always for essays found in our= Reference Library, while personal theories are welcome, they should be bac= ked up with evidence from the texts. Citing sources is required. My comods = and I are available to help authors as needed as well, and all essays are c= opyedited when I put together the newsletter.

So, if you're int= erested in being added to the substitute list, please let me know: either r= espond to this email or contact me privately.

Best regards,

D= awn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/
http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--20cf3054a7377c4fc4049920d3bf-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3274 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59642 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2011 23:29:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2011 23:29:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f48.google.com) (209.85.215.48) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2011 23:29:14 -0000 X-Received: by ewy20 with SMTP id 20so2900452ewy.21 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:29:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.213.105.80 with SMTP id s16mr4586322ebo.18.1295306857346; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:27:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.213.27.75 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:27:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:27:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotrallslash@yahoogroups.com, Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c3ca41b8340049a132116 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Red Subject: My Slashy Valentine Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=-_YnkmVcE-4fCyI7uTInhtprR7ms818azHSqW4gHlZl6eMT4U37C X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --0015174c3ca41b8340049a132116 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 For those who signed up for My Slashy Valentine 2011: The deadline for NEW participants is 2 weeks away-- January 31st The deadline for RETURNING* *participants is 3 weeks away-- February 7th * Please let me know if you anticipate any problem with these deadlines. The sooner you tell me, the easier it will be to sort something out, or to find a pinch-hitter as a last result. Once your story is finished, please post it on the Slashy Santa site ( http://slashysanta.com/eFiction/ ). The entries are hidden, so your stories are safe until the big reveal. If you need any help with the site, please email slashysanta @ gmail.com (remove spaces) or PM me on LJ (I'm red_lasbelin on there). Good luck! --0015174c3ca41b8340049a132116 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<= span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, Georgia, Helv= etica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(48, 0, 24); ">For tho= se who signed up for My Slashy Valentine 2011:

The deadline for NEW=A0participants is 2 weeks away--=A0January 31st
The deadline for=A0RETURNING<= i>=A0participants is 3 weeks away--=A0February 7th

* Please let me know if you antici= pate any problem with these deadlines. The sooner you tell me, the easier i= t will be to sort something out, or to find a pinch-hitter as a last result= .=A0

Once your story is finished, please post it on the=A0Slashy Sa= nta=A0site (=A0http://slashysa= nta.com/eFiction/=A0). The entries are hidden, so your stories are safe= until the big reveal. If you need any help with the site, please email sla= shysanta @ gmail.com (remove spaces) or PM= me on LJ (I'm red_lasbelin on there).

Good luck!=


=
--0015174c3ca41b8340049a132116-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3275 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97115 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2011 01:41:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2011 01:41:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f44.google.com) (209.85.161.44) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2011 01:41:08 -0000 X-Received: by fxm9 with SMTP id 9so3858892fxm.31 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 17:41:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.79.66 with SMTP id o2mr3536692fak.80.1295833267352; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 17:41:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.122.66 with HTTP; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 17:41:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:41:07 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba10a78396b476049a8db1e8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Tolkienfic Big Bang Challenge X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=npFnBO5dTuvB8UbNOxEdwVlem3cgN2T_a8DHSXMPpZZGfoXtWKPK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --90e6ba10a78396b476049a8db1e8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The other Tolkien website I mod for, Many Paths to Tread, is sponsoring a Big Bang challenge. In the past, I've heard SWG members mention that they'd be interested in a Big Bang challenge, so I thought I'd pass the word along. Here is the LJ community for the challenge: http://community.livejournal.com/lotrgficbigbang/ In a nutshell, writers for Big Bang challenges complete long works over the course of several months--in the case of this specific challenge, stories must be at least 20,000 words and are due July 15--and team up with an artist to provide illustrations for the story. All Tolkien genfic--including Silmfic--is welcome. Since this is a genfic group, ratings must be PG13 or below. Signups for authors are currently open, and artist signups will open soon. Complete details are available at the link above, or you may contact me privately with questions, and I'll do my best to find an answer for you! :) Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --90e6ba10a78396b476049a8db1e8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The other Tolkien website I mod for, Many Paths to Tread, i= s sponsoring a Big Bang challenge. In the past, I've heard SWG members = mention that they'd be interested in a Big Bang challenge, so I thought= I'd pass the word along. Here is the LJ community for the challenge:
http:/= /community.livejournal.com/lotrgficbigbang/

In a nutshell, write= rs for Big Bang challenges complete long works over the course of several m= onths--in the case of this specific challenge, stories must be at least 20,= 000 words and are due July 15--and team up with an artist to provide illust= rations for the story. All Tolkien genfic--including Silmfic--is welcome. S= ince this is a genfic group, ratings must be PG13 or below. Signups for aut= hors are currently open, and artist signups will open soon. Complete detail= s are available at the link above, or you may contact me privately with que= stions, and I'll do my best to find an answer for you! :)

Best = regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens= .net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--90e6ba10a78396b476049a8db1e8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3276 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40449 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2011 03:15:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2011 03:15:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f47.google.com) (209.85.215.47) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2011 03:15:51 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ew0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 28so2290382ewy.20 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:15:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.213.33.67 with SMTP id g3mr6082337ebd.91.1295924895711; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:08:15 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.213.98.76 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:08:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:08:15 -0500 Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com, lotrallslash@yahoogroups.com, Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c3d8a1084c4049aa30776 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Red Subject: My Slashy Valentine Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=1YovG6NK9gO5gwPcFAdA9eRaahnG41M5FHNZToYVPGbPuxcmQ0c4 X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --0015174c3d8a1084c4049aa30776 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 For everyone who signed up for My Slashy Valentine 2011: The deadline for NEW participants is 1 week away-- January 31st The deadline for RETURNING participants is 2 weeks away-- February 7th * PLEASE let me know if you anticipate any problem with these deadlines. The sooner you tell me, the easier it will be to sort something out, or to find a pinch-hitter as a last resort. Once your story is finished, please post it on the Slashy Santa site ( http://slashysanta.com/eFiction/ ). The entries are hidden, so your stories are safe until the big reveal. If you need any help with the site, please email slashysanta @ gmail.com (remove spaces) or PM me on LJ (I'm red_lasbelin on there). Slashy Admin -- A life is a mosaic, crafted from the tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day. --0015174c3d8a1084c4049aa30776 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<= span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, Georgia, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; f= ont-size: 14px; color: rgb(48, 0, 24); ">For everyone who signed up for My = Slashy Valentine 2011:

The deadline for NEW=A0participants is 1 week away= --=A0January 31st
The de= adline for=A0RETURNING participants is 2 weeks away--=A0February 7th

* PLEASE let me know if you= anticipate any problem with these deadlines. The sooner you tell me, the e= asier it will be to sort something out, or to find a pinch-hitter as a last= resort.=A0

Once your story is finished, please post it on the=A0Sl= ashy Santa=A0site (=A0http://slashysanta.com/eFiction/=A0). The entries are hidde= n, so your stories are safe until the big reveal. If you need any help with= the site, please email slashysanta @=A0gmail.com=A0(remove spaces) or PM me on LJ (I'm red_la= sbelin on there).

Slashy Admin
=
--
A life is a mosaic, crafted from the tiny pieces of w= hat you do each day, every day.
--0015174c3d8a1084c4049aa30776-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3277 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55002 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2011 02:52:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2011 02:52:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f44.google.com) (209.85.215.44) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2011 02:52:17 -0000 X-Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so2824020ewy.17 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:52:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.213.32.199 with SMTP id e7mr9426542ebd.93.1296528734289; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:52:14 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.213.98.76 with HTTP; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:52:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 21:52:14 -0500 Message-ID: To: Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com, lotrallslash@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bf23ea60001049b2f9e21 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Red Subject: My Slashy Valentine Reminder! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=R7UrB8fYoMRIJGWBpGseWIXaKt6Z_ybKUl4J-h_S2yJ3BhLxjjsk X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --0015174bf23ea60001049b2f9e21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 For everyone who signed up for My Slashy Valentine 2011: The deadline for NEW participants is TONIGHT -- January 31st The deadline for RETURNING participants is 1 week away-- February 7th * PLEASE let me know if you anticipate any problem with these deadlines. The sooner you tell me, the easier it will be to sort something out, or to find a pinch-hitter as a last resort. Once your story is finished, please post it on the Slashy Santa site ( http://slashysanta.com/eFiction/ ). The entries are hidden, so your stories are safe until the big reveal. If you need any help with the site, please email slashysanta @ gmail.com (remove spaces) or PM me on LJ (I'm red_lasbelin on there). Slashy Admin -- A life is a mosaic, crafted from the tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day. --0015174bf23ea60001049b2f9e21 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For everyone wh= o signed up for My=A0V= alentine=A02011:

The deadline for NEW=A0participants is TONIGHT --= =A0January 31st
The dead= line for=A0RETURNING participants is 1 week away--=A0February 7th

* PLEASE let me know if you an= ticipate any problem with these deadlines. The sooner you tell me, the easi= er it will be to sort something out, or to find a pinch-hitter as a last re= sort.=A0

Once your story is finished, please post it on the=A0Slashy=A0Santa=A0= site (=A0http://slashysanta.com/eFiction/=A0). Th= e entries are hidden, so your stories are safe until the big reveal. If you= need any help with the site, please email slashysanta @=A0gmail.com= =A0(remove spaces) or PM me on LJ (I'm red_lasbelin on there).

Slashy=A0Admin

--
A life is a mosaic= , crafted from the tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day.
--0015174bf23ea60001049b2f9e21-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3278 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12011 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2011 01:34:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2011 01:34:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f46.google.com) (209.85.216.46) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2011 01:34:24 -0000 X-Received: by qwa26 with SMTP id 26so8219261qwa.5 for ; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 17:34:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.60.67 with SMTP id o3mr8294859qah.90.1296610462739; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 17:34:22 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.80.212 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:34:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 20:34:22 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cdc180b3805049b42a6e0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: February 2011 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Gj2aFs4-yL71LNx3x419drVDIP7IeH0RFbUYpYytuqb6z9_50K05 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015175cdc180b3805049b42a6e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, I've just uploaded the February 2011 newsletter onto the SWG webs= ite: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2011.php In New= s this month, we reveal this year's Back to Middle-earth (B2MeM) project: P= assport to Middle-earth. This is an annual Tolkien fandom event that we par= ticipate in. It will begin on March 1 and feature daily writing/art challen= ges. Also, we like to periodically focus on the different volunteer jobs in= which our members can participate. This month, we focus on character biogr= aphy substitutes, those writers who help us out when Oshun, our regular bio= grapher, needs a month off. Speaking of, Oshun has written another of her = thought-provoking biographies, this month on Earendil. Earendil's staying p= ower through multiple drafts of the "Silmarillion" attests to his importanc= e, both to the story and as a character with strong connections to importan= t archetypes and themes. In "Linguistic Foolery," Darth Fingon considers th= e Elven concept of *l=C3=A1maty=C3=A1v=C3=AB *and how it can help guide you= in naming your original characters. Don't know what it is? Then the articl= e was written for you! We continue our "When the Storm Breaks" challenge t= his month, but we also revisit the "One True Love" challenge in honor of Va= lentine's Day or, if you hate the holiday, just to heat up a month that is = cold and bleak for many of our members! The newsletter also contains a list= ing of all stories updated and completed during the month of January and ne= ws from groups beyond the SWG. Here's the link one more time: http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2011.php Thanks, as always, to o= ur columnists and contributors! I hope everyone enjoys! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~= Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org --0015175cdc180b3805049b42a6e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I've just uploaded the February 2011 newsletter onto th= e SWG website:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2= 011.php

In News this month, we reveal this year's Back to M= iddle-earth (B2MeM) project: Passport to Middle-earth. This is an annual To= lkien fandom event that we participate in. It will begin on March 1 and fea= ture daily writing/art challenges. Also, we like to periodically focus on t= he different volunteer jobs in which our members can participate. This mont= h, we focus on character biography substitutes, those writers who help us o= ut when Oshun, our regular biographer, needs a month off.

Speaking = of, Oshun has written another of her thought-provoking biographies, this mo= nth on Earendil. Earendil's staying power through multiple drafts of th= e "Silmarillion" attests to his importance, both to the story and= as a character with strong connections to important archetypes and themes.= In "Linguistic Foolery," Darth Fingon considers the Elven concep= t of l=C3=A1maty=C3=A1v=C3=AB and how it can help guide you in nam= ing your original characters. Don't know what it is? Then the article w= as written for you!

We continue our "When the Storm Breaks&quo= t; challenge this month, but we also revisit the "One True Love" = challenge in honor of Valentine's Day or, if you hate the holiday, just= to heat up a month that is cold and bleak for many of our members! The new= sletter also contains a listing of all stories updated and completed during= the month of January and news from groups beyond the SWG.

Here'= ;s the link one more time:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/ne= ws/february2011.php

Thanks, as always, to our columnists and con= tributors! I hope everyone enjoys! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
D= awn Felagund
htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015175cdc180b3805049b42a6e0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3279 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68560 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2011 16:46:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2011 16:46:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f45.google.com) (209.85.215.45) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2011 16:46:12 -0000 X-Received: by ewy10 with SMTP id 10so1944262ewy.32 for ; Sun, 06 Feb 2011 08:46:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.213.32.18 with SMTP id a18mr4157416ebd.60.1297010769016; Sun, 06 Feb 2011 08:46:09 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.213.15.3 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Feb 2011 08:46:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 11:46:08 -0500 Message-ID: To: LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotrallslash@yahoogroups.com, Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c1230283885049b9fdacc X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Red Subject: My Slashy Valentine - One Day Left! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=vsAHOEpuhOyZa9RefsNiIb9YA0ycZ_HqQeyfy9mFS_ORVt1iBI6r X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --0015174c1230283885049b9fdacc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Deadline for returning participants is 1 day away!!! --* February 7th * If you need another day to get the story back from a beta or get it to a beta, just *let me know.* I don't bite, promise! We'll work something out. Please post your story on the Slashy Santa site: http://slashysanta.com/eFiction/ . If you need any help, please email slashysanta @ gmail.com (remove spaces). Slashy Admin -- A life is a mosaic, crafted from the tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day. --0015174c1230283885049b9fdacc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Deadline for returning participants is 1 da= y away!!!=A0--=A0February 7= th

If you need another day to get the story = back from a beta or get it to a beta, just=A0let me know.=A0I don't bite, promise! We'll work something out.<= br>
Please post your story on the=A0Slashy Santa=A0site:=A0http://slashysanta.com/eFiction/=A0. I= f you need any help,=A0please email slashysanta @ gmail.com (remove spaces).

Slashy= Admin

--
A life is a mosaic, crafted from the= tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day.
--0015174c1230283885049b9fdacc-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3280 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99746 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2011 01:41:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2011 01:41:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f50.google.com) (209.85.215.50) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2011 01:41:42 -0000 X-Received: by ewy27 with SMTP id 27so2700637ewy.9 for ; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:41:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.213.10.194 with SMTP id q2mr1325845ebq.8.1297129299795; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:41:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.213.15.3 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 17:41:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:41:39 -0500 Message-ID: To: Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotrallslash@yahoogroups.com, ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bedd82460f0049bbb735d From: Red Subject: My Slashy Valentine - Deadline Tonight! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=32NnBwqgGkZrNQU4nBsOs1EcZkxZSOKsOvND_yZV-s-F3EZSRpG7 X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --0015174bedd82460f0049bbb735d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 * Deadline for returning participants is Tonight!!! -- February 7th** Please post your story on the Slashy Santa site: http://slashysanta.com/eFiction/ . If you need any help, please email slashysanta @ gmail.com (remove spaces). Slashy Admin -- A life is a mosaic, crafted from the tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day. --0015174bedd82460f0049bbb735d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
= =A0Deadline for returning participants is Tonight!!! -- February 7t= h*
 --001636c5a7bc6859b2049cb76191-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3284 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81220 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 03:07:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 03:07:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f169.google.com) (209.85.216.169) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 03:07:29 -0000 X-Received: by qyk2 with SMTP id 2so2482439qyk.0 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:07:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.67.65 with SMTP id q1mr1737715qai.40.1298344048350; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:07:28 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.80.212 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:07:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 22:07:28 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cf83ccc548e049cd64749 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=FlOX6KoO4oWEcw5hzxFeBTfZpZ7GqL5jckOiVLSsOdg7wE-DF6f9 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015175cf83ccc548e049cd64749 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 My husband sent me this article about the now-available free translation of the Russian novel "The Last Ringbearer" (Kirill Yeskov) that considers the events of *The Lord of the Rings* from the perspective of the citizens of Mordor. I thought it might interest some of you here: http://www.salon.com/books/laura_miller/2011/02/15/last_ringbearer/index.html Of course, the slack-jawed wonderment that always accompanies these articles sort of irks me, as though the perspective Yeskov takes in the novel is *so*original. It's not: Many of the "fan fiction" authors that Laura Miller derides in her article have already considered the perspective of the "evil" characters or the darker implications of Tolkien's ideal world, and done so with tremendous insight and eloquence (and without teenage love affairs with Legolas). The notion that a story becomes more worthy of discussion or consideration the moment it begins to earn a profit for its writer is troubling, in my opinion. (Fantasy author Jacqueline Carey did something similar though less obvious in her *Banewreaker* duology, which borrowed heavily from the mythology of *The Silmarillion *and the storyline of LotR to consider the perspective of the "bad guys" in both stories. She changed the names of the characters, but they remain very recognizable to anyone familiar with Tolkien's works. They were interesting books but, again, many "fan fiction" stories are more insightful and better written.) Miller also muses that "If it ['The Last Ringbearer'] *is* fan fiction (and I'm not sure I'm in a position to pronounce on that), then it may be the most persuasive example yet of the artistic potential of the form." I continue to believe--and the examples Miller cites in the article of similar instances where a work of fiction is used to critique the original underscore this--that the notion of "fan fiction" is itself the fiction. All fiction is, to an extent, "fan fiction," and the enshrinement of "originality" and disdain/dismissal of anything that can be classified as derivative is a relatively new invention aimed more at protecting the profits of publishers than promoting better quality art (whatever that is). Of course fan fiction has "potential"! It's rather ignorant of the history of literature to suggest otherwise. It's always interesting to see an outsider's take on what remains a pretty misunderstood subculture. It's also interesting to see the increasing mainstream attention that derivative/transformative/fan-written works are receiving. I'm still not sure how I feel about that. I'd love to hear what others think about the article. :) Best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015175cf83ccc548e049cd64749 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My husband sent me this article about the now-available free translation of= the Russian novel "The Last Ringbearer" (Kirill Yeskov) that con= siders the events of The Lord of the Rings from the perspective of t= he citizens of Mordor. I thought it might interest some of you here:
http://www.salon.com/books/laura_miller/2011/02/15/last_ri= ngbearer/index.html

Of course, the slack-jawed wonderment that a= lways accompanies these articles sort of irks me, as though the perspective= Yeskov takes in the novel is so original. It's not: Many of the= "fan fiction" authors that Laura Miller derides in her article h= ave already considered the perspective of the "evil" characters o= r the darker implications of Tolkien's ideal world, and done so with tr= emendous insight and eloquence (and without teenage love affairs with Legol= as). The notion that a story becomes more worthy of discussion or considera= tion the moment it begins to earn a profit for its writer is troubling, in = my opinion.

(Fantasy author Jacqueline Carey did something similar = though less obvious in her Banewreaker duology, which borrowed heavi= ly from the mythology of The Silmarillion and the storyline of LotR = to consider the perspective of the "bad guys" in both stories. Sh= e changed the names of the characters, but they remain very recognizable to= anyone familiar with Tolkien's works. They were interesting books but,= again, many "fan fiction" stories are more insightful and better= written.)

Miller also muses that "If it ['The Last Ringbe= arer'] is fan fiction (and I'm not sure I'm in a posit= ion to pronounce on that), then it may be the most persuasive example yet = of the artistic potential of the form." I continue to believe--and th= e examples Miller cites in the article of similar instances where a work of= fiction is used to critique the original underscore this--that the notion = of "fan fiction" is itself the fiction. All fiction is, to an ext= ent, "fan fiction," and the enshrinement of "originality&quo= t; and disdain/dismissal of anything that can be classified as derivative i= s a relatively new invention aimed more at protecting the profits of publis= hers than promoting better quality art (whatever that is). Of course fan fi= ction has "potential"! It's rather ignorant of the history of= literature to suggest otherwise.

It's always interesting to se= e an outsider's take on what remains a pretty misunderstood subculture.= It's also interesting to see the increasing mainstream attention that = derivative/transformative/fan-written works are receiving. I'm still no= t sure how I feel about that.

I'd love to hear what others thin= k about the article. :)

Best wishes,

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--0015175cf83ccc548e049cd64749-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3285 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77845 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 03:33:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 03:33:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 03:33:55 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2011 03:33:54 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2011 03:33:54 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 03:33:53 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "Doc Bushwell" Subject: Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=p5UJnbzmZxFNdzTF2HgEUU0F9IJCDZAUwuDb8BsgIMwMYwsL1UyOQaWE X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 I read Laura Miller's review of The Last Ringbearer whilst cooling my jets,= so to speak, at the Dallas-Ft Worth airport en route back home to Boston o= n Saturday evening. My none-too-eloquent response was that her review chap= ped my a$$ for the reasons you state: that somehow Kirill's work is worthy = of discussion. Why not the Morlindal=EB, which is essentially the same pre= mise? My impression is that the "infamy" of The Last Ringbearer is what m= ade Laura Miller take note. With regard to The Last Ringbearer, from what = I have read of it so far (yes, I downloaded it's not bad, but not great eit= her...sort of pedestrian and with a shaky foundation of canon knowledge fro= m what I can tell so far. Part of this may be due to problems in translat= ion, but the pacing is not so hot. But back to the a$$-chapping. It was= much less Mr. Kirill's efforts that bothered me (in fact, he doesn't bothe= r me at all), but Ms. Miller's dismissal of fan fiction as largely an adole= scent activity and that Kirill is so tremendously insightful. Please allow= me a derisive laugh here. That said, I'm a tad uneasy about too much exp= osure to the mainstream, mostly because it's good to skim under the radar a= nd out of sight of the formidable Tolkien Estate. --- In SilmarillionWrite= rsGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > My hus= band sent me this article about the now-available free translation of > the= Russian novel "The Last Ringbearer" (Kirill Yeskov) that considers the > e= vents of *The Lord of the Rings* from the perspective of the citizens of > = Mordor. I thought it might interest some of you here: > > http://www.salon= .com/books/laura_miller/2011/02/15/last_ringbearer/index.html > > Of cours= e, the slack-jawed wonderment that always accompanies these articles > sort= of irks me, as though the perspective Yeskov takes in the novel > is *so*o= riginal. It's not: Many of the "fan fiction" authors that > Laura Miller > = derides in her article have already considered the perspective of the "evil= " > characters or the darker implications of Tolkien's ideal world, and don= e so > with tremendous insight and eloquence (and without teenage love affa= irs with > Legolas). The notion that a story becomes more worthy of discuss= ion or > consideration the moment it begins to earn a profit for its writer= is > troubling, in my opinion. > > (Fantasy author Jacqueline Carey did s= omething similar though less obvious > in her *Banewreaker* duology, which = borrowed heavily from the mythology of *The > Silmarillion *and the storyli= ne of LotR to consider the perspective of the > "bad guys" in both stories.= She changed the names of the characters, but > they remain very recognizab= le to anyone familiar with Tolkien's works. They > were interesting books b= ut, again, many "fan fiction" stories are more > insightful and better writ= ten.) > > Miller also muses that "If it ['The Last Ringbearer'] *is* fan f= iction (and > I'm not sure I'm in a position to pronounce on that), then it= may be the > most persuasive example yet of the artistic potential of the = form." I > continue to believe--and the examples Miller cites in the articl= e of similar > instances where a work of fiction is used to critique the or= iginal > underscore this--that the notion of "fan fiction" is itself the fi= ction. All > fiction is, to an extent, "fan fiction," and the enshrinement = of > "originality" and disdain/dismissal of anything that can be classified= as > derivative is a relatively new invention aimed more at protecting the= > profits of publishers than promoting better quality art (whatever that i= s). > Of course fan fiction has "potential"! It's rather ignorant of the hi= story > of literature to suggest otherwise. > > It's always interesting to= see an outsider's take on what remains a pretty > misunderstood subculture= . It's also interesting to see the increasing > mainstream attention that d= erivative/transformative/fan-written works are > receiving. I'm still not s= ure how I feel about that. > > I'd love to hear what others think about th= e article. :) > > Best wishes, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund = > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3286 Return-Path: X-Sender: silalilte@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91605 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 04:16:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 04:16:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f54.google.com) (209.85.161.54) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 04:16:04 -0000 X-Received: by mail-fx0-f54.google.com with SMTP id 19so3280244fxm.13 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:16:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.107.211 with SMTP id c19mr2764547fap.62.1298348163677; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:16:03 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.13.2 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:16:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 05:16:03 +0100 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c92414174014049cd73d26 From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Karolina_W=EAgrzyn?= Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=dPBZ3xWIx7KtEfmugPTwBHuoOPn9tP8NbzBdDLGKPGyo8ZXqtQQ X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle --001636c92414174014049cd73d26 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Of course, the slack-jawed wonderment that always accompanies these > articles sort of irks me, as though the perspective Yeskov takes in the > novel is *so* original. It's not: Many of the "fan fiction" authors that > Laura Miller derides in her article have already considered the perspective > of the "evil" characters or the darker implications of Tolkien's ideal > world, and done so with tremendous insight and eloquence (and without > teenage love affairs with Legolas). > I've red the book years ago, it has been issued here. Polish fandom is parted, the book is hated by many, but I liked it a lot. And I had no idea fan fiction existed that time, nor Tolkien Estate ;) Haven't red the review, though. I can't remember any teenage love affairs with Legolas? But loved who Nazgul appeared to be. But this might be a bit OT, since you talk of the review not the book. Sirielle --001636c92414174014049cd73d26 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Of course, the slack-jawed wondermen= t that always accompanies these articles sort of irks me, as though the per= spective Yeskov takes in the novel is so original. It's not: Man= y of the "fan fiction" authors that Laura Miller derides in her a= rticle have already considered the perspective of the "evil" char= acters or the darker implications of Tolkien's ideal world, and done so= with tremendous insight and eloquence (and without teenage love affairs wi= th Legolas).

I've red th= e book years ago, it has been issued here. Polish fandom is parted, the boo= k is hated by many, but I liked it a lot. And I had no idea fan fiction exi= sted that time, nor Tolkien Estate ;) =A0Haven't=A0red=A0the=A0review, = though. I can't=A0remember any=A0teenage love affairs with Legolas? But= loved who Nazgul appeared to be. But this might be a bit OT, since you tal= k of=A0the=A0review=A0not=A0the=A0book.=A0

Siriel= le
--001636c92414174014049cd73d26-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3287 Return-Path: X-Sender: tarion_anarore@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92357 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 15:31:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m16.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 15:31:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.114) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 15:31:28 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 55405 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2011 15:31:27 -0000 Message-ID: <211311.51467.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: HiKvdcYVM1nIPfVxQwuw2MsXJe1Mlu0jiDixlV.a.mkQF9H nNlQ- X-Received: from [78.145.102.18] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:31:26 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.4.20 YahooMailWebService/0.8.109.292656 Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:31:26 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1231650247-1298388686=:51467" From: Tarion Anarore Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218509590; y=PoXSIopzbmNCFRIqUtGQjGSRj9ai8_QIzahrzSJQyViKYj5wG0qFFtc X-Yahoo-Profile: tarion_anarore --0-1231650247-1298388686=:51467 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I skimmed the article last night, and I have to admit I'm no fan of Miller'= s. I think @$$ chapping is quite a good term for her writing! I've been att= empting to read, off and on, her book "The Magician's Book: A Skeptic's Adv= entures in Narnia" for awhile now, and she rides the 21 hands high horse th= ere as she does in this article. But let's not get into THAT... To put it = politely, Miller appears exists in her own little universe, and naturally e= xerts the major gravitational pull of said universe... A book written from = the point of view of the bad guy? Extraordinary! Clearly she hasn't heard t= he phrase "history is written by the victors"... Her narrow view of fanfict= ion and astonishment that the "form might have potential" is as adolescent = as the authors she scoffs at. Eternal eye-rolling in Miller's direction a= side, I'm curious to read the book. And Dawn brings up an excellent point= that "fan fiction" is a relatively new term. Perhaps the only true "origin= al" story was the first story ever told. Inspiration and derivative storyte= lling is about as old as literature itself. As Dawn put it so brilliantly, = "It's rather ignorant of the history of literature to suggest otherwise." I= wonder what Miller would think to learn that the mythological creatures th= at dance (or stomp or fly) across the pages of modern literature were actua= lly NOT invented by neo-classic authors! ;) Yes, yes, I'm bad... Not sur= e how I feel about the attention fan-fiction, etc. is receiving lately eith= er. It is interesting though, how derivative writing/storytelling is a much= "worse offense" than derivative artwork. Illustrate a scene from a popular= novel (derivative work!) and share it with everyone. Write a missing scene= ? Better hide it under lock and key! ;) Apologies for the copious amounts= of sarcasm. ;) T=E1rion --- On Mon, 2/21/11, Doc Bushwell wrote: =A0 I read Laura M= iller's review of The Last Ringbearer whilst cooling my jets, so to speak, = at the Dallas-Ft Worth airport en route back home to Boston on Saturday eve= ning. My none-too-eloquent response was that her review chapped my a$$ for= the reasons you state: that somehow Kirill's work is worthy of discussion.= Why not the Morlindal=EB, which is essentially the same premise? My imp= ression is that the "infamy" of The Last Ringbearer is what made Laura Mill= er take note. With regard to The Last Ringbearer, from what I have read = of it so far (yes, I downloaded it's not bad, but not great either...sort o= f pedestrian and with a shaky foundation of canon knowledge from what I can= tell so far. Part of this may be due to problems in translation, but the= pacing is not so hot. But back to the a$$-chapping. It was much less= Mr. Kirill's efforts that bothered me (in fact, he doesn't bother me at al= l), but Ms. Miller's dismissal of fan fiction as largely an adolescent acti= vity and that Kirill is so tremendously insightful. Please allow me a deri= sive laugh here. That said, I'm a tad uneasy about too much exposure to= the mainstream, mostly because it's good to skim under the radar and out o= f sight of the formidable Tolkien Estate. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuil= d@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > My husband= sent me this article about the now-available free translation of > the Ru= ssian novel "The Last Ringbearer" (Kirill Yeskov) that considers the > eve= nts of *The Lord of the Rings* from the perspective of the citizens of > M= ordor. I thought it might interest some of you here: > > http://www.salo= n.com/books/laura_miller/2011/02/15/last_ringbearer/index.html > > Of co= urse, the slack-jawed wonderment that always accompanies these articles > = sort of irks me, as though the perspective Yeskov takes in the novel > is = *so*original. It's not: Many of the "fan fiction" authors that > Laura Mil= ler > derides in her article have already considered the perspective of th= e "evil" > characters or the darker implications of Tolkien's ideal world,= and done so > with tremendous insight and eloquence (and without teenage = love affairs with > Legolas). The notion that a story becomes more worthy = of discussion or > consideration the moment it begins to earn a profit for= its writer is > troubling, in my opinion. > > (Fantasy author Jacqueli= ne Carey did something similar though less obvious > in her *Banewreaker* = duology, which borrowed heavily from the mythology of *The > Silmarillion = *and the storyline of LotR to consider the perspective of the > "bad guys"= in both stories. She changed the names of the characters, but > they rema= in very recognizable to anyone familiar with Tolkien's works. They > were = interesting books but, again, many "fan fiction" stories are more > insigh= tful and better written.) > > Miller also muses that "If it ['The Last R= ingbearer'] *is* fan fiction (and > I'm not sure I'm in a position to pron= ounce on that), then it may be the > most persuasive example yet of the ar= tistic potential of the form." I > continue to believe--and the examples M= iller cites in the article of similar > instances where a work of fiction = is used to critique the original > underscore this--that the notion of "fa= n fiction" is itself the fiction. All > fiction is, to an extent, "fan fic= tion," and the enshrinement of > "originality" and disdain/dismissal of an= ything that can be classified as > derivative is a relatively new inventio= n aimed more at protecting the > profits of publishers than promoting bett= er quality art (whatever that is). > Of course fan fiction has "potential"= ! It's rather ignorant of the history > of literature to suggest otherwise= . > > It's always interesting to see an outsider's take on what remains = a pretty > misunderstood subculture. It's also interesting to see the incr= easing > mainstream attention that derivative/transformative/fan-written w= orks are > receiving. I'm still not sure how I feel about that. > > I'd= love to hear what others think about the article. :) > > Best wishes, = > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/= heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0-1231650247-1298388686=:51467 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I skimmed the article last night, and I have = to admit I'm no fan of Miller's. I think @$$ chapping is quite a good term = for her writing! I've been attempting to read, off and on, her book "The Ma= gician's Book: A Skeptic's Adventures in Narnia" for awhile now, and she ri= des the 21 hands high horse there as she does in this article. But let's no= t get into THAT...

To put it politely, Miller appears exists in her = own little universe, and naturally exerts the major gravitational pull of s= aid universe... A book written from the point of view of the bad guy? Extra= ordinary! Clearly she hasn't heard the phrase "history is written by the vi= ctors"... Her narrow view of fanfiction and astonishment that the "form mig= ht have potential" is as adolescent as the authors she scoffs at.

E= ternal eye-rolling in Miller's direction aside, I'm curious to read the boo= k.

And Dawn brings up an excellent point that "fan fiction" is a r= elatively new term. Perhaps the only true "original" story was the first st= ory ever told. Inspiration and derivative storytelling is about as old as l= iterature itself. As Dawn put it so brilliantly, "It's rather ignorant of t= he history of literature to suggest otherwise." I wonder what Miller would = think to learn that the mythological creatures that dance (or stomp or fly)= across the pages of modern literature were actually NOT invented by neo-cl= assic authors! ;)

Yes, yes, I'm bad...

Not sure how I feel a= bout the attention fan-fiction, etc. is receiving lately either. It is inte= resting though, how derivative writing/storytelling is a much "worse offens= e" than derivative artwork. Illustrate a scene from a popular novel (deriva= tive work!) and share it with everyone. Write a missing scene? Better hide = it under lock and key! ;)

Apologies for the copious amounts of sar= casm. ;)

T=E1rion

--- On Mon, 2/21/11, Doc Bushwell <= ;docbushwell@gmail.com> wrote:

<= div id=3D"yiv1580474088">  =

I read L= aura Miller's review of The Last Ringbearer whilst cooling my jets, so to s= peak, at the Dallas-Ft Worth airport en route back home to Boston on Saturd= ay evening. My none-too-eloquent response was that her review chapped my a= $$ for the reasons you state: that somehow Kirill's work is worthy of discu= ssion. Why not the Morlindal=EB, which is essentially the same premise? = My impression is that the "infamy" of The Last Ringbearer is what made Laur= a Miller take note.

With regard to The Last Ringbearer, from what = I have read of it so far (yes, I downloaded it's not bad, but not great eit= her...sort of pedestrian and with a shaky foundation of canon knowledge fro= m what I can tell so far. Part of this may be due to problems in translat= ion, but the pacing is not so hot.

But back to the a$$-chapping.= It was much less Mr. Kirill's efforts that bothered me (in fact, he doesn= 't bother me at all), but Ms. Miller's dismissal of fan fiction as largely = an adolescent activity and that Kirill is so tremendously insightful. Plea= se allow me a derisive laugh here.

That said, I'm a tad uneasy ab= out too much exposure to the mainstream, mostly because it's good to skim u= nder the radar and out of sight of the formidable Tolkien Estate.

= --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Daw= n Felagund wrote:
>
> My husband sen= t me this article about the now-available free translation of
> the = Russian novel "The Last Ringbearer" (Kirill Yeskov) that considers the
= > events of *The Lord of the Rings* from the perspective of the citizens= of
> Mordor. I thought it might interest some of you here:
>=
> http://www.sal= on.com/books/laura_miller/2011/02/15/last_ringbearer/index.html
>= ;
> Of course, the slack-jawed wonderment that always accompanies t= hese articles
> sort of irks me, as though the perspective Yeskov ta= kes in the novel
> is *so*original. It's not: Many of the "fan ficti= on" authors that
> Laura Miller
> derides in her article have= already considered the perspective of the "evil"
> characters or th= e darker implications of Tolkien's ideal world, and done so
> with t= remendous insight and eloquence (and without teenage love affairs with
= > Legolas). The notion that a story becomes more worthy of discussion or=
> consideration the moment it begins to earn a profit for its write= r is
> troubling, in my opinion.
>
> (Fantasy author = Jacqueline Carey did something similar though less obvious
> in her = *Banewreaker* duology, which borrowed heavily from the mythology of *The > Silmarillion *and the storyline of LotR to consider the perspective = of the
> "bad guys" in both stories. She changed the names of the ch= aracters, but
> they remain very recognizable to anyone familiar wit= h Tolkien's works. They
> were interesting books but, again, many "f= an fiction" stories are more
> insightful and better written.)
&= gt;
> Miller also muses that "If it ['The Last Ringbearer'] *is* fa= n fiction (and
> I'm not sure I'm in a position to pronounce on that= ), then it may be the
> most persuasive example yet of the artistic = potential of the form." I
> continue to believe--and the examples Mi= ller cites in the article of similar
> instances where a work of fic= tion is used to critique the original
> underscore this--that the no= tion of "fan fiction" is itself the fiction. All
> fiction is, to an= extent, "fan fiction," and the enshrinement of
> "originality" and = disdain/dismissal of anything that can be classified as
> derivative= is a relatively new invention aimed more at protecting the
> profit= s of publishers than promoting better quality art (whatever that is).
&= gt; Of course fan fiction has "potential"! It's rather ignorant of the hist= ory
> of literature to suggest otherwise.
>
> It's al= ways interesting to see an outsider's take on what remains a pretty
>= ; misunderstood subculture. It's also interesting to see the increasing
= > mainstream attention that derivative/transformative/fan-written works= are
> receiving. I'm still not sure how I feel about that.
>=
> I'd love to hear what others think about the article. :)
>= ;
> Best wishes,
>
> Dawn
>
> --
= > ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidha= vens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmarilli= onwritersguild.org


--0-1231650247-1298388686=:51467-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3288 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61820 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 16:19:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 16:19:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f45.google.com) (209.85.216.45) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 16:19:47 -0000 X-Received: by mail-qw0-f45.google.com with SMTP id 8so1269646qwj.4 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:19:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.54.75 with SMTP id p11mr2338373qag.240.1298391586010; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:19:46 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.80.212 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:19:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 11:19:45 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cdef243774f049ce15902 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=4U_UG2cn2sNj_67zN7XAZW48qyn1R2w3eofnxcrqorKJfNQrRtUW X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015175cdef243774f049ce15902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not OT at all, Sirielle! I was wondering if anyone on this list had read it= ; I thought I remembered you or someone mentioning it a while back. The lo= ve affair with Legolas had to do with the review, not the book. ;) Miller p= uts forth yet again the tired popular fiction that fan-created works are ne= cessarily badly written teenage romances. I suppose when one Googles "fan f= iction" and ends up with fanfiction.net as the first result (and nothing To= lkien-related otherwise on the first page), then that is the natural result= of that. Then again, Googling "tolkien fan fiction" turns up on the first = page Tolkien Fan Fiction, LotRFF, Henneth-Annun, SoA, and Many Paths to Tre= ad--none of which are exactly havens for teenybop Legomance--so I have to t= sk-tsk a bit in Miller's direction for shoddy research and relying too much= on stereotypes. Dawn 2011/2/21 Karolina W=C4=99grzyn > > I've red the book years ago, it has been issued here. Polish fandom= is > parted, the book is hated by many, but I liked it a lot. And I had no= idea > fan fiction existed that time, nor Tolkien Estate ;) > Haven't red= the review, though. I can't remember any teenage love affairs > with Legol= as? But loved who Nazgul appeared to be. But this might be a bit > OT, sinc= e you talk of the review not the book. > > Sirielle > > ~oOo~ Dawn Felag= und http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org --0015175cdef243774f049ce15902 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not OT at all, Sirielle! I was wondering if anyone on this list had read it= ; I thought I remembered you or someone mentioning it a while back.

= The love affair with Legolas had to do with the review, not the book. ;) Mi= ller puts forth yet again the tired popular fiction that fan-created works = are necessarily badly written teenage romances. I suppose when one Googles = "fan fiction" and ends up with = fanfiction.net as the first result (and nothing Tolkien-related otherwi= se on the first page), then that is the natural result of that. Then again,= Googling "tolkien fan fiction" turns up on the first page Tolkie= n Fan Fiction, LotRFF, Henneth-Annun, SoA, and Many Paths to Tread--none of= which are exactly havens for teenybop Legomance--so I have to tsk-tsk a bi= t in Miller's direction for shoddy research and relying too much on ste= reotypes.

Dawn

2011/2/21 Karolina= W=C4=99grzyn <= silalilte@gmail.com>

<= div>I've red the book years ago, it has been issued here. Polish fandom= is parted, the book is hated by many, but I liked it a lot. And I had no i= dea fan fiction existed that time, nor Tolkien Estate ;) =C2=A0Haven't= =C2=A0red=C2=A0the=C2=A0review, though. I can't=C2=A0remember any=C2=A0= teenage love affairs with Legolas? But loved who Nazgul appeared to be. But= this might be a bit OT, since you talk of=C2=A0the=C2=A0review=C2=A0not=C2= =A0the=C2=A0book.=C2=A0

Sirielle
=
=A0= Please post your story on the=A0Slashy Santa=A0site:=A0http://slashysanta.com/eFiction/=A0. If you need any help,= =A0please email slashysanta @=A0gmail.com=A0(remove spa= ces).

= Slashy Admin

--
A life is a mosaic, crafted from the ti= ny pieces of what you do each day, every day.
--0015174bedd82460f0049bbb735d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3281 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54659 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2011 22:38:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2011 22:38:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ey0-f171.google.com) (209.85.215.171) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2011 22:38:43 -0000 X-Received: by eyg5 with SMTP id 5so2822233eyg.2 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:38:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.213.32.66 with SMTP id b2mr542175ebd.34.1297723119605; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:38:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.213.108.142 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:38:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:38:39 -0500 Message-ID: To: LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotrallslash@yahoogroups.com, silmarillion_fic@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174be90c8f985f049c45b54b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Red Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2011: The Archive is Open! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=3Uos_AF-R7v6cAbRPeRWgaF6ybAYFDhl_vzUNSg7-a4zynHHNHzo X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --0015174be90c8f985f049c45b54b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 http://www.slashysanta.com/eFiction/index.php This round we had 45 stories by 40 wonderful authors! Authors are now free to post their stories wherever they wish. Please don't forget to thank your writer(s)! Congrats to all of you on a job fantastically done! A master list of all the stories completed this round-- complete with links to the stories-- can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/slashy_santa/63481.html Red -- A life is a mosaic, crafted from the tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day. --0015174be90c8f985f049c45b54b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This roun= d we had 45 stories by 40 wonderful authors! Authors are now free to post t= heir stories wherever they wish. Please don't forget to thank your writ= er(s)! Congrats to all of you on a job fantastically done!

<= /div>

A master list of all the stories completed this ro= und-- complete with links to the stories-- can be found here:

Red

--
A life is a mosaic, crafted from the = tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day.
--0015174be90c8f985f049c45b54b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3282 Return-Path: X-Sender: silalilte@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48779 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2011 14:07:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m16.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2011 14:07:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f44.google.com) (209.85.161.44) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2011 14:07:49 -0000 X-Received: by fxm15 with SMTP id 15so1542344fxm.17 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 06:07:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.96.73 with SMTP id g9mr522515fan.24.1298210864440; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 06:07:44 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.13.2 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 06:07:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 15:07:44 +0100 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3054a5116b265b049cb745ef From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Karolina_W=EAgrzyn?= Subject: Tolkien Estate Threatens Lawsuit Over Book Featuring Tolkien As Character X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=PoO38ESJUQ4TjM8aBaAyjPFCW1HqTYPLGcoocJuSESR7llLFRPQ X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle --20cf3054a5116b265b049cb745ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everybody, here is something all of you might be interested in - if = you haven't heard of it, yet: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/blogs/thr-es= q/jrr-tolkien-estate-threatens-lawsuit-101528 Aword from = TE published by The Guardian: *" David Brawn, estates publisher at Harpe= rCollins, Tolkien's exclusive publisher, said: "To my knowledge, none of us= have ever been approached to publish this book." Russia has operated outsi= de copyright "for years", Brawn added, though the situation is now changing= . "Online there are lots of infringements which it is extremely difficult t= o do anything about," he said. "When you get something as popular as Tolkie= n, fans want to create new stories. Most are pretty amateurish. Tolkien him= self isn't around so it's the estate's view that it's best to say no to eve= rything. If you let one in, you'd open the floodgates." "* The whole ar= ticle: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/feb/08/lord-of-the-rings-rework= ing-tolkien-estate And the book in question: http://www.tolkienlibrary.com= /press/970-Mirkwood_Novel_About_JRR_Tolkien.php Regards! -- Karolina W= =EAgrzyn www.sirielle.com --20cf3054a5116b265b049cb745ef Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everybody,

here= is=A0something=A0all of you might be=A0interested=A0in - if you haven'= t heard of it, yet:
http://www.hollywoodreporte= r.com/blogs/thr-esq/jrr-tolkien-estate-threatens-lawsuit-101528<= /div>

Aword from TE published by The Guardian:=A0
" =A0=A0David Brawn, estates publisher at HarperCollins, Tolkien's = exclusive publisher, said: "To my knowledge, none of us have ever been= approached to publish this book." Russia has operated outside copyrig= ht "for years", Brawn added, though the situation is now changing= . "Online there are lots of infringements which it is extremely diffic= ult to do anything about," he said. "When you get something as po= pular as Tolkien, fans want to create new stories. Most are pretty amateuri= sh. Tolkien himself isn't around so it's the estate's view t= hat it's best to say no to everything. If you let one in, you'd= open the floodgates." =A0 "

<= /div>
The whol= e=A0article:

<= font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"georgia, serif">And the book in que= stion:


Regards!

--
Karolina W= =EAgrzyn
www.sirielle.com
--20cf3054a5116b265b049cb745ef-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3283 Return-Path: X-Sender: silalilte@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31444 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2011 14:15:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2011 14:15:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f47.google.com) (209.85.161.47) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2011 14:15:35 -0000 X-Received: by fxm8 with SMTP id 8so758660fxm.34 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 06:15:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.115.75 with SMTP id h11mr518249faq.119.1298211334019; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 06:15:34 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.13.2 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 06:15:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 15:15:33 +0100 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5a7bc6859b2049cb76191 From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Karolina_W=EAgrzyn?= Subject: Re: Tolkien Estate Threatens Lawsuit Over Book Featuring Tolkien As Character X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=qPXyuwarW9A5qxAf1VNzRI30yMQ8pqz4EzccRr8Eu2H43WJxaRw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle --001636c5a7bc6859b2049cb76191 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've forgotten to add that I hope the case will have a positive final - for= fan fiction authors. There are so many stories deserving a book publicatio= n :) Greetings, Sirielle W dniu 20 lutego 2011 15:07 u=BFytkownik Karolin= a W=EAgrzyn napisa=B3: > Hello everybody, > > here = is something all of you might be interested in - if you haven't heard > of = it, yet: > > http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/blogs/thr-esq/jrr-tolkien-est= ate-threatens-lawsuit-101528 > > > Aword > from TE publish= ed by The Guardian: > > *" David Brawn, estates publisher at HarperCollin= s, Tolkien's exclusive > publisher, said: "To my knowledge, none of us have= ever been approached to > publish this book." Russia has operated outside = copyright "for years", Brawn > added, though the situation is now changing.= "Online there are lots of > infringements which it is extremely difficult = to do anything about," he > said. "When you get something as popular as Tol= kien, fans want to create new > stories. Most are pretty amateurish. Tolkie= n himself isn't around so it's > the estate's view that it's best to say no= to everything. If you let one > in, you'd open the floodgates." "* > > >= The whole article: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/feb/08/lord-of= -the-rings-reworking-tolkien-estate > > And the book in question: > > http:= //www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/970-Mirkwood_Novel_About_JRR_Tolkien.php > >= > Regards! > > -- > Karolina W=EAgrzyn > www.sirielle.com > -- Karolin= a W=EAgrzyn www.sirielle.com --001636c5a7bc6859b2049cb76191 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've=A0forgotten=A0to add that I hope the case will have a positive fin= al - for fan fiction authors. There are so many stories deserving a book pu= blication :)

Greetings,
Sirielle

W dniu 20 lutego 2011 15:07 u=BFytkownik Karolina W= =EAgrzyn <silal= ilte@gmail.com> napisa=B3:
Hello everybody,

here is= =A0something=A0all of you might be=A0interested=A0in - if you haven't h= eard of it, yet:

Aword from TE pub= lished by The Guardian:=A0

" =A0=A0David Brawn,= estates publisher at HarperCollins, Tolkien's exclusive publisher, sai= d: "To my knowledge, none of us have ever been approached to publish t= his book." Russia has operated outside copyright "for years"= , Brawn added, though the situation is now changing. "Online there are= lots of infringements which it is extremely difficult to do anything about= ," he said. "When you get something as popular as Tolkien, fans w= ant to create new stories. Most are pretty amateurish. Tolkien himself isn&= #39;t around so it's the estate's view that it's best to say= no to everything. If you let one in, you'd open the floodgates.&qu= ot; =A0 "

The whole= =A0article:

And the= book in question:


Regards!

--
Karolina W=EAgrzyn
www.sirielle.com



--
Karolina W=EAgrzyn =
www.sirielle.com

~oOo~
Dawn Fela= gund
http://them= idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015175cdef243774f049ce15902-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3289 Return-Path: X-Sender: silalilte@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44936 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 17:53:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 17:53:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ey0-f174.google.com) (209.85.215.174) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 17:53:48 -0000 X-Received: by eyx24 with SMTP id 24so964540eyx.5 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 09:53:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.86.80 with SMTP id r16mr3745417fal.81.1298397217113; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 09:53:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.13.2 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 09:53:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <211311.51467.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <211311.51467.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 18:53:37 +0100 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3054a5b1e74f35049ce2a89e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Karolina_W=EAgrzyn?= Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=I67iLO5N9ntf6RzC1uMrfiXG10RGPV-NzmVha5P5e_0v_7hmq90 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle --20cf3054a5b1e74f35049ce2a89e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2011/2/22 Tarion Anarore > It is interesting th= ough, how derivative writing/storytelling is a much > "worse offense" than = derivative artwork. Illustrate a scene from a popular > novel (derivative w= ork!) and share it with everyone. Write a missing scene? > Better hide it u= nder lock and key! ;) > There are people out there who see artworks as cop= yright infringement, unless copyrights owner has commissioned these. The wa= y I see it there is a difference in medium. If one creates music, artwork, = a movie or a theatrical play inspired/based on a written text they have got= to translate the original into a different medium. Maybe because when one = takes the writing into filed where the original creator does't work (if the= y doesn't) it makes no competition? Some authors hate it, most of them are = curious, including JRRT judging by one of his letters. The same way a story= derivative from an artwork is more welcomed than such inspired/referenced = artwork. Also the question is how much said fan work, no matter the medium,= is inspired vs referenced, fresh vs copied. There is no real border, all i= s subjective. Anyway even within written medium there are different POV on = fan creations - some people do hate fan fiction itself but treat poetry as = something different and read it or create themselves. I used to treat poetr= y and prose different way, too, especially more abstract themes, impression= s (but I like fan stories). Copyrights are great idea, the same time viola= ted by many and taken into absurd by others. I wonder what will TE say to t= he case of Steve Hillard's book, which went to a court. Maybe it will open = doors for others, maybe will make life harder, we'll see. Sirielle -- Ka= rolina W=EAgrzyn www.sirielle.com --20cf3054a5b1e74f35049ce2a89e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2011/2/22 Tarion Anarore <tarion_anarore@yahoo.com= >

There are peop= le out there=A0who=A0see artworks as copyright=A0infringement, unless copyr= ights owner has=A0commissioned=A0these. The way I see it there is a differe= nce in medium. If one creates music, artwork, a movie or a theatrical=A0pla= y=A0inspired/based on a=A0written=A0text they have got to translate=A0the= =A0original into a different medium. Maybe because when=A0one takes the wri= ting into filed where the original creator does't work (if they doesn&#= 39;t) it makes no competition? Some authors hate it, most of them are curio= us, including JRRT judging by one of his letters. The same way a=A0story=A0= derivative from an artwork is more welcomed=A0than such inspired/referenced= =A0artwork.
Also the question is how much=A0said=A0fan work, no = matter=A0the=A0medium, is inspired vs referenced, fresh vs copied. There is= no real border, all is subjective. Anyway even within written medium there= are different POV on fan creations - some=A0people=A0do hate fan fiction i= tself but treat poetry as something different and read it or create themsel= ves. I used to treat poetry and prose different way, too, especially more a= bstract themes, impressions (but I like fan stories).=A0

Copyrights are great idea, the same time violated by many and taken= into absurd by others. I wonder what will TE say to the case of=A0Steve Hillard's boo= k, which went to a court. Maybe it will open doors for others, maybe will m= ake life harder, we'll see.

Sirielle

--
Karolina W=EAgrzyn
www.sirielle.com
--20cf3054a5b1e74f35049ce2a89e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3290 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40475 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 18:02:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 18:02:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f180.google.com) (209.85.216.180) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 18:02:28 -0000 X-Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so2834439qyk.4 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:02:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.46.8 with SMTP id h8mr2496681qaf.190.1298397746837; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:02:26 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.80.212 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:02:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:02:26 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cdd827a3a62049ce2c869 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0W7dmjdnapwutYjhiXX5pm3LEG__WyxTvE1oFVTtsejelQO3Jv97 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015175cdd827a3a62049ce2c869 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Doc Bushwell wrote: > It was much less Mr. Kirill's efforts that bothered me (in fact, he doesn't bother me at all), but Ms. Miller's dismissal of fan fiction as largely an adolescent activity and that Kirill is so tremendously insightful. Please allow me a derisive laugh here Of course he is. He's passed that ultimate test in getting someone to publish him after all! /sarcasm Terry Brooks' *Sword of Shannara*--supposedly a "tribute" to LotR--forever disabused me of the idea that published work is necessarily superior or at least on par with fan-created stories. Tarion wrote: > A book written from the point of view of the bad guy? Extraordinary! Clearly she hasn't heard the phrase "history is written by the victors"... Which, to me, is where all of the appeal of writing based on someone else's story *insert appropriate horror-filled hand-waving here* came from. When I finished *The Silmarillion* the second time, it was with the distinct feeling that the Feanorians hadn't gotten a fair shake in the story. There is a quote that gets bandied about fandom quite a bit (that's always attributed to Henry Jenkins but actually isn't his quote; not that I'm much better, since I can't remember the actual author of the quote or even enough of it for my Google-fu to be of use) about how fan fiction restores storytelling to we mere mortals and allows our perspectives to influence how the important stories in our culture are understood. Miller brings up *The Wind Done Gone,* for example, as an example of a transformative work that looks at some of the race issues in Margaret Mitchell's *Gone with the Wind. * In terms of "fanfic," it has never surprised me that most authors are female; we finally have the chance to tell the stories as we see them. (Whether fanfic is, by and large, successful at moving beyond male-centered storytelling is a whole new bucket of worms! But the potential is there, at least.) Dawn enjoying her snow day :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015175cdd827a3a62049ce2c869 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Doc Bushwell <docbushwell@gmail.com> wro= te:
> It was much less Mr. Kirill's efforts that bothered me (in = fact, he doesn't bother me at all), but Ms. Miller's dismissal of = fan fiction as largely an adolescent activity and that Kirill is so tremen= dously insightful. Please allow me a derisive laugh here

Of course= he is. He's passed that ultimate test in getting someone to publish hi= m after all! /sarcasm

Terry Brooks' Sword of Shannara--su= pposedly a "tribute" to LotR--forever disabused me of the idea th= at published work is necessarily superior or at least on par with fan-creat= ed stories.

Tarion wrote:

> A book written from the point= of view of the bad guy? Extraordinary! Clearly she hasn't heard the p= hrase "history is written by the victors"...

Which, to me= , is where all of the appeal of writing based on someone else's story *= insert appropriate horror-filled hand-waving here* came from. When I finish= ed The Silmarillion the second time, it was with the distinct feelin= g that the Feanorians hadn't gotten a fair shake in the story. There is= a quote that gets bandied about fandom quite a bit (that's always attr= ibuted to Henry Jenkins but actually isn't his quote; not that I'm = much better, since I can't remember the actual author of the quote or e= ven enough of it for my Google-fu to be of use) about how fan fiction resto= res storytelling to we mere mortals and allows our perspectives to influenc= e how the important stories in our culture are understood. Miller brings up= The Wind Done Gone, for example, as an example of a transformative = work that looks at some of the race issues in Margaret Mitchell's Go= ne with the Wind. In terms of "fanfic," it has never surprise= d me that most authors are female; we finally have the chance to tell the s= tories as we see them. (Whether fanfic is, by and large, successful at movi= ng beyond male-centered storytelling is a whole new bucket of worms! But th= e potential is there, at least.)

Dawn
enjoying her snow day :)
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org
--0015175cdd827a3a62049ce2c869-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3291 Return-Path: X-Sender: silalilte@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57237 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 18:15:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 18:15:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f43.google.com) (209.85.161.43) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 18:15:20 -0000 X-Received: by fxm9 with SMTP id 9so3893696fxm.2 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:15:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.74.1 with SMTP id s1mr3765457faj.138.1298398482476; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:14:42 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.13.2 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:14:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <211311.51467.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:14:42 +0100 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30433dfe532e93049ce2f443 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Karolina_W=EAgrzyn?= Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=0bWQYaUIFPZVZrKiPf2P1WPO7BTNsNIMpdZDlWchoiUWORfsxz8 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle --20cf30433dfe532e93049ce2f443 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 BTW in all of this I wonder of one thing - why a parody is not treated the same way as fan fiction?* Bored of the rings* and Co. getting published while serious stories are *crime*? --20cf30433dfe532e93049ce2f443 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BTW in all of this I wonder of one thing - why a parody is not treated the = same way as fan fiction? Bored of=A0the=A0rings and Co. getting=A0pu= blished=A0while serious stories are crime? --20cf30433dfe532e93049ce2f443-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3292 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24232 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 18:18:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 18:18:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f41.google.com) (209.85.216.41) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 18:18:25 -0000 X-Received: by qwd7 with SMTP id 7so3127609qwd.14 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:18:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.67.65 with SMTP id q1mr2516793qai.40.1298398703643; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:18:23 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.80.212 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:18:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <211311.51467.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:18:23 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cf83c81ed42049ce3019e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=AyGwWf4DS47XrosYpNv_PoJYu3TeIBK2Kn-RiugN0vyYfSadi-pi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015175cf83c81ed42049ce3019e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think it's because parody has always been defined (in U.S. law anyway) as= falling within the parameters of fair use. Other fan-generated works still= fall in a gray area of which the legality hasn't been determined in court,= so most people treat them (for safety's sake) as not fair use. Dawn 2011= /2/22 Karolina W=C4=99grzyn > > > BTW in all of this= I wonder of one thing - why a parody is not treated the > same way as fan = fiction?* Bored of the rings* and Co. > getting published while serious sto= ries are *crime*? > > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/hereti= c_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015175cf83c81ed42049ce3019e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think it's because parody has always been defined (in U.S. law anyway= ) as falling within the parameters of fair use. Other fan-generated works s= till fall in a gray area of which the legality hasn't been determined i= n court, so most people treat them (for safety's sake) as not fair use.=

Dawn

2011/2/22 Karolina W=C4=99g= rzyn <silalilte= @gmail.com>
=C2=A0
<= p>BTW in all of this I wonder of one thing - why a parody is not treated th= e same way as fan fiction? Bored of=C2=A0the=C2=A0rings and Co. gett= ing=C2=A0published=C2=A0while serious stories are crime?

<= /div>
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund=
http://themidha= vens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015175cf83c81ed42049ce3019e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3293 Return-Path: X-Sender: silalilte@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92302 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 18:31:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 18:31:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ey0-f171.google.com) (209.85.215.171) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 18:31:20 -0000 X-Received: by eydd26 with SMTP id d26so1306311eyd.30 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:31:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.103.12 with SMTP id i12mr3873819fao.43.1298399452252; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:30:52 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.13.2 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:30:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <211311.51467.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:30:52 +0100 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3054a54720d301049ce32ec0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Karolina_W=EAgrzyn?= Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=kc7wWQ13sO3Wz3sJpGSep1ixLp7UuM1sGGWMbfwNTXAVn5faS4s X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle --20cf3054a54720d301049ce32ec0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Then again we've got a lot of parodies among fan fiction, within fair use w= ould be legal I guess. Fair use is not the same defined around the world, b= ut as far as I know parodies are save in every free country. Maybe because = parodies let to crit politics and governments in ways a debate cannot. What= ever I find it nor fair regarding fan creations. Especially that a parody c= ould be done by haters and gain profit, while lovers cannot even really fre= ely create? Defamation should be the key, in every case defined by the copy= rights owner. Not fair to fan ficcers either, for our views on defamation d= iffer a lot, but generally fair allowing to create and publish a lot more. = 2011/2/22 Dawn Felagund > > > I think it's becau= se parody has always been defined (in U.S. law anyway) as > falling within = the parameters of fair use. Other fan-generated works still > fall in a gra= y area of which the legality hasn't been determined in court, > so most peo= ple treat them (for safety's sake) as not fair use. > > Dawn > > 2011/2/22 = Karolina W=EAgrzyn > > >> >> BTW in all of this I won= der of one thing - why a parody is not treated the >> same way as fan ficti= on?* Bored of the rings* and Co. >> getting published while serious stories= are *crime*? >> >> -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/he= retic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > > > -- = Karolina W=EAgrzyn www.sirielle.com --20cf3054a54720d301049ce32ec0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Then again we've got a lot of parodies among fan fiction, within fair u= se would be legal I guess. Fair use is not the same def= ined around the world, but as far as I know parodies are save in every free= country. Maybe because parodies let to crit politics and governments&= nbsp;in ways a debate cannot. Whatever I find it nor fair regarding fan cre= ations. Especially that a parody could be done by hater= s and gain profit, while lovers cannot even really freely create?= Defamation should be the key, in every case defined by the copyrights owne= r. Not fair to fan ficcers either, for our views on defamation differ a lot= , but generally fair allowing to create and publish a lot more.

2011/2/22 Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.com><= br>
 
=

I think it's because parody has always been defined (in U.S. l= aw anyway) as falling within the parameters of fair use. Other fan-generate= d works still fall in a gray area of which the legality hasn't been det= ermined in court, so most people treat them (for safety's sake) as not = fair use.

Dawn

2011/2/22 Kar= olina W=EAgrzyn <silalilte@gmail.com>
 

= BTW in all of this I wonder of one thing - why a parody is not treated the = same way as fan fiction? Bored of the rings and Co. gettin= g published while serious stories are crime?


--
= ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

=
=



--
Karolina W=EAgrzyn=
www.sirielle.com
--20cf3054a54720d301049ce32ec0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3294 Return-Path: X-Sender: silalilte@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82345 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 18:51:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 18:51:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-fx0-f52.google.com) (209.85.161.52) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 18:51:22 -0000 X-Received: by fxm17 with SMTP id 17so2704266fxm.25 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:51:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.223.101.131 with SMTP id c3mr3854922fao.5.1298400647685; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:50:47 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.223.13.2 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:50:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:50:47 +0100 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3054a71961a683049ce37542 From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Karolina_W=EAgrzyn?= Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=om0Jq7K6QoXC9HbmcE6tWM_Y9F-pWNxr8FC1WYkbocmleOSfG-4 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle --20cf3054a71961a683049ce37542 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2011/2/22 Dawn Felagund > > > Not OT at all, Siri= elle! I was wondering if anyone on this list had read > it; I thought I rem= embered you or someone mentioning it a while back. > > > As I said I liked = it, but I need tor read it again one day, I can't check it now but it has b= een published here for the first time around '99/2000. Since I lost my copy= thanks to someone who didn't remember to give it back I git a newest re-ed= ition last year. There was time since the first publication when publishers= said they can't publish it anymore due to copyrights but it's finally back= , so I guess TE doesn't care that much as long as a book is not in English.= People here hate it for such POV is simply heresy to them, especially to = people who treat LotR as sacred and mostly don't seek nor read fan fiction = for the same reasons. I really liked the book from the start, though in fin= al it turns to much into spy story. I hope I'm not spoiling anything saying= that. Many ideas there might be not as fresh today with all the newer stor= ies in movies and books, yes. To me it was the first time someone looked up= on events differently, I red no fan fics, no discussions, nor any works on= Tolkien's world. I knew only LotR and *Silmarillion* and then found out "t= here was one more book on Arda!" If I knew about HoME existence then, haha = ;) Anyway remember it has been written before the fan fiction boom risen by= the movies. Many people wrote such twisted POV since then, but to me Yesko= v was the first one, so I used to compare those to his work, not other way = round. I have no idea what fan fiction looked back in '98 when Yeskov wrote= it. Nor what JRRT fandom in Russia looked back then and looks now, apart t= hat it is reach and alive fandom with many creative ideas. I feel we're lon= g behind them here in my spot. And there is the *Black Book of Arda * - do= n't know the author, all I know it's *Silmarillion* told in a different way= . I'm curious a lot, someone at dA said they're going to translate it, I ho= pe they will, no matter of what TE thinks of such translations. It looks li= ke it's a bit of cult book there. -- Karolina W=EAgrzyn www.sirielle.com --20cf3054a71961a683049ce37542 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2011/2/22 Dawn Felagund &l= t;DawnFelagund@gmail.com><= /span>
=A0
=

Not OT at all, Sirielle! I was wondering if anyone on this lis= t had read it; I thought I remembered you or someone mentioning it a while = back.


As I said I l= iked it, but I need tor read it again one day, I can't check it now but= it has been published here for the first time around '99/2000. Since I= lost my copy thanks to someone who didn't=A0remember=A0to give it back= I git a newest=A0re-edition=A0last=A0year. There was=A0time=A0since=A0the= =A0first publication when publishers said they can't publish it anymore= due to copyrights but it's finally back, so I guess TE=A0doesn't= =A0care=A0that=A0much as=A0long=A0as a book is not in English.
<= br>
People here hate it for such POV is simply heresy to them, es= pecially to=A0people=A0who=A0treat LotR as sacred and mostly don't seek= nor read fan fiction for=A0the=A0same reasons.=A0I really liked the book f= rom=A0the=A0start, though in final it turns to much into spy story. I hope = I'm not=A0spoiling=A0anything saying that. Many ideas there might be no= t as fresh today with all the newer stories in movies and books, yes. To me= it was=A0the=A0first time someone looked upon events differently, =A0I red= no fan fics, no discussions, nor any works on Tolkien's world. I knew = only LotR and Silmarillion and then found out "there was one mo= re book on Arda!" If I knew about HoME existence then, haha ;) Anyway = remember=A0it has been written before the fan fiction boom risen by the mov= ies. Many=A0people=A0wrote such twisted POV since then, but to me Yeskov wa= s the first one, so I used to compare those to his work, not other way roun= d. I have no idea what fan fiction looked back in '98 when Yeskov wrote= it. Nor what JRRT fandom in Russia looked back then and looks now, apart= =A0that=A0it is reach and alive fandom with many creative ideas. I feel we&= #39;re long behind them here in my spot. And there is=A0the=A0Black Book= of Arda=A0=A0- don't=A0know=A0the=A0author, all I=A0know=A0it'= s Silmarillion told in a different way. I'm curious a lot, someo= ne at dA said=A0they're=A0going to translate it, I hope they will, no m= atter of what TE thinks of such translations. It looks like it's a bit = of cult book there.

--
Karolina W=EAgrzyn
www.sirielle.com
--20cf3054a71961a683049ce37542-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3295 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24868 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 21:41:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 21:41:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f53.google.com) (209.85.216.53) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 21:41:51 -0000 X-Received: by qwc9 with SMTP id 9so3430448qwc.40 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:41:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.67.65 with SMTP id q1mr2711088qai.40.1298410910235; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:41:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.80.212 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:41:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:41:50 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cf83c13be5a049ce5d9a7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Copyright and Fair Use (Was: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor") X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rNsVfk5MPaUobhAC16wqY6jVjPPEfRMFB3GzCX67FNgkfiYs850u X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015175cf83c13be5a049ce5d9a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2011/2/22 Karolina W=C4=99grzyn > Especially that a p= arody could be done by haters and gain profit, while lovers cannot even rea= lly freely create? Defamation should be the key, in every case defined by t= he copyrights owner. Not fair to fan ficcers either, for our views on defam= ation differ a lot, but generally fair allowing to create and publish a lot= more. I'm obviously with you in thinking that more fan creations should f= all under fair use (else I wouldn't be creating them myself; I'm not agains= t copyright but tend to favor legal interpretations that allow for creative= freedom, especially when it doesn't infringe on the original creator's rig= ht to make a living on her work). I do feel leery of judging fair use by it= s creator's intent. Do that many people who dislike a work spend the effort= on parodying it with no intent other than making fun of it? (I've not read= *Bored of the Rings* to know the intent behind it.) Even seemingly mean-sp= irited parody usually has social or political commentary behind it. There's= also that many creators of original works equate *any* criticism with mali= ce. And some criticism does come legitimately from a place of anger and off= ense. Fair use is such a tricky question. I've been trying to come up with= where I'd draw the line, but every time I think, "I've got it!" I think of= a half-dozen exceptions, and I'm back to Square One. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ D= awn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org --0015175cf83c13be5a049ce5d9a7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2011/2/22 Karolina W=C4=99grzyn <silalilte@gmail.com>
> Especially=C2= =A0that=C2=A0a parody could be=C2=A0done=C2=A0by haters and gain profit,= =C2=A0while=C2=A0lovers cannot even really freely create? Defamation should= be the key, in every case defined by the copyrights owner. Not fair to f= an ficcers either, for our views on defamation differ a lot, but generally= fair allowing to create and publish a lot more.

I'm obviously w= ith you in thinking that more fan creations should fall under fair use (els= e I wouldn't be creating them myself; I'm not against copyright but= tend to favor legal interpretations that allow for creative freedom, espec= ially when it doesn't infringe on the original creator's right to m= ake a living on her work). I do feel leery of judging fair use by its creat= or's intent. Do that many people who dislike a work spend the effort on= parodying it with no intent other than making fun of it? (I've not rea= d Bored of the Rings to know the intent behind it.) Even seemingly m= ean-spirited parody usually has social or political commentary behind it. T= here's also that many creators of original works equate any crit= icism with malice. And some criticism does come legitimately from a place o= f anger and offense.

Fair use is such a tricky question. I've b= een trying to come up with where I'd draw the line, but every time I th= ink, "I've got it!" I think of a half-dozen exceptions, and I= 'm back to Square One. :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fela= gund
http://them= idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015175cf83c13be5a049ce5d9a7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3296 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19247 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 21:53:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 21:53:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.125.48) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 21:53:01 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 93599 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2011 21:53:00 -0000 Message-ID: <158372.93088.qm@web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: efwpVHQVM1lkPPjBSJOnEWh1FxsMfluj8X_CQ7GPvhn6cYz fiMpXGx2roZzjE977Rtn1ewZ23MUTOG4Sc1hJU7X5.mdq5naiEgVXmF0na5s VexXXPZNuVBxMTYmJmevSDOwXblOd2uu0Wnp.VloALhszVBzVYxuFo0OaQYZ LtZ5fRxQLDGEmSDwhcLBsCpxrF5SEbw5HwwESM0iHEKrfVs7p4g9wGbV8p3w Z_vdVlowGFhD3Ovf3ATITLriHb5SXYp3kg9T3J7QnS22vB3HEfpHPofc0Y7J w7yf3oU7PT8D8yhhn1OoNj.d3wTTBh9NstivMvw-- X-Received: from [200.126.199.172] by web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:53:00 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/555 YahooMailWebService/0.8.109.292656 References: Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:53:00 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-824745024-1298411580=:93088" From: Angelica Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=pobMabXjmYTPuteZ-epjqxG3ZRxHReerCk-oPQsk8LDaLogzFxga5cLE X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --0-824745024-1298411580=:93088 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is this the quote you were thinking of? The writers of fan fiction recapt= ure that childish bravado, those easy movements from one narrative to anot= her and in and out of real life. ... Indeed, when it comes to fan fiction,= the internet is giving us back something like an oral society, in which p= eople can retell the stories that are most important to them and, in so do= ing, change them. ... [T]hese communities in which readers become writers,= fans become creators and old tales become new, also give out blasts of en= ergy. And they remind us that the power of these fantasy worlds are not bui= lt just on profit and loss, but on imagination responding to imagination. = ~Natasha Walter, The Guardian: October 28, 2004 I liked it well enough to= save it when I discovered fanfiction and it has survived broken down comp= uters and reformatted discs through the years! Angelica ________= ________________________ From: Dawn Felagund To: S= ilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 3:02:2= 6 PM Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth A= ccording to Mordor" On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Doc Bushwell wrote: > It was much less Mr. Kirill's efforts that bo= thered me (in fact, he doesn't >bother me at all), but Ms. Miller's dismi= ssal of fan fiction as largely an >adolescent activity and that Kirill is= so tremendously insightful. Please >allow me a derisive laugh here Of = course he is. He's passed that ultimate test in getting someone to publish = him after all! /sarcasm Terry Brooks' Sword of Shannara--supposedly a "tr= ibute" to LotR--forever disabused me of the idea that published work is ne= cessarily superior or at least on par with fan-created stories. Tarion wr= ote: > A book written from the point of view of the bad guy? Extraordinary= ! Clearly >she hasn't heard the phrase "history is written by the victor= s"... Which, to me, is where all of the appeal of writing based on someone= else's story *insert appropriate horror-filled hand-waving here* came fro= m. When I finished The Silmarillion the second time, it was with the disti= nct feeling that the Feanorians hadn't gotten a fair shake in the story. T= here is a quote that gets bandied about fandom quite a bit (that's always = attributed to Henry Jenkins but actually isn't his quote; not that I'm muc= h better, since I can't remember the actual author of the quote or even en= ough of it for my Google-fu to be of use) about how fan fiction restores s= torytelling to we mere mortals and allows our perspectives to influence ho= w the important stories in our culture are understood. Miller brings up Th= e Wind Done Gone, for example, as an example of a transformative work that= looks at some of the race issues in Margaret Mitchell's Gone with the Win= d. In terms of "fanfic," it has never surprised me that most authors are f= emale; we finally have the chance to tell the stories as we see them. (Whe= ther fanfic is, by and large, successful at moving beyond male-centered st= orytelling is a whole new bucket of worms! But the potential is there, at = least.) Dawn enjoying her snow day :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://them= idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org = --0-824745024-1298411580=:93088 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Is this the quote you were thinking of?

=

The writers of= fan fiction recapture that childish bravado, those easy movements from one= narrative to another and in and out of real life. ... Indeed, when it come= s to fan fiction, the internet is giving us back something like an oral soc= iety, in which people can retell the stories that are most important to the= m and, in so doing, change them. ... [T]hese communities in which readers b= ecome writers, fans become creators and old tales become new, also give out= blasts of energy. And they remind us that the power of these fantasy world= s are not built just on profit and loss, but on imagination responding to i= magination.
~Natasha Walter, The Guardian: Octobe= r 28, 2004



I liked it well= enough to save it when I discovered fanfiction and it has survived broken = down computers and reformatted discs  through the years!


Angelica



=
From: Dawn Felagund
To:= SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 3:02:26 PM
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild]= Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor"

 
=

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Doc Bushwell <docbushwell@gmail.= com> wrote:
> It was much less Mr. Kirill's efforts tha= t bothered me (in fact, he doesn't bother me at all), but Ms. Miller's dis= missal of fan fiction as largely an adolescent activity and that Kirill is= so tremendously insightful. Please allow me a derisive laugh here
Of course he is. He's passed that ultimate test in getting someone to publ= ish him after all! /sarcasm

Terry Brooks' Sword of Shannara--= supposedly a "tribute" to LotR--forever disabused me of the idea that publi= shed work is necessarily superior or at least on par with fan-created stori= es.

Tarion wrote:

> A book written from the point of view= of the bad guy? Extraordinary! Clearly she hasn't heard the phrase "histo= ry is written by the victors"...

Which, to me, is where all of the = appeal of writing based on someone else's story *insert appropriate horror-= filled hand-waving here* came from. When I finished The Silmarillion= the second time, it was with the distinct feeling that the Feanorians hadn= 't gotten a fair shake in the story. There is a quote that gets bandied abo= ut fandom quite a bit (that's always attributed to Henry Jenkins but actual= ly isn't his quote; not that I'm much better, since I can't remember the ac= tual author of the quote or even enough of it for my Google-fu to be of use= ) about how fan fiction restores storytelling to we mere mortals and allows= our perspectives to influence how the important stories in our culture are= understood. Miller brings up The Wind Done Gone, for example, as an= example of a transformative work that looks at some of the race issues in = Margaret Mitchell's Gone with the Wind. In terms of "fanfic," it has= never surprised me that most authors are female; we finally have the chan= ce to tell the stories as we see them. (Whether fanfic is, by and large, su= ccessful at moving beyond male-centered storytelling is a whole new bucket = of worms! But the potential is there, at least.)

Dawn
enjoying h= er snow day :)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidha= vens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org

--0-824745024-1298411580=:93088-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3297 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16126 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 22:01:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 22:01:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f51.google.com) (209.85.216.51) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 22:01:12 -0000 X-Received: by qwb8 with SMTP id 8so2606087qwb.38 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 14:01:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.19.199 with SMTP id c7mr2726765qab.140.1298412071891; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 14:01:11 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.80.212 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 14:01:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <158372.93088.qm@web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <158372.93088.qm@web38502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:01:11 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cb07e513437049ce61e4c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=AeB2flh0FiQqPJoQf42RO6UNfudYr1O0VtWLADgYiyrsqymjSkiO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015175cb07e513437049ce61e4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Yes, that's it! :D Thank you, Angelica! Dawn On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Angelica wrote: > > > Is this the quote you were thinking of? > > *The writers of fan fiction recapture that childish bravado, those easy > movements from one narrative to another and in and out of real life. ... > Indeed, when it comes to fan fiction, the internet is giving us back > something like an oral society, in which people can retell the stories that > are most important to them and, in so doing, change them. ... [T]hese > communities in which readers become writers, fans become creators and old > tales become new, also give out blasts of energy. And they remind us that > the power of these fantasy worlds are not built just on profit and loss, but > on imagination responding to imagination.* > ~Natasha Walter, The Guardian: October 28, 2004 > > > > I liked it well enough to save it when I discovered fanfiction and it has > survived broken down computers and reformatted discs through the years! > > > Angelica > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015175cb07e513437049ce61e4c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, that's it! :D

Thank you, Angelica!

Dawn

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Angelica <angelica.ramses@y= ahoo.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
=

Is this the quote you were thinking of?

The writers of fan fiction recap= ture that childish bravado, those easy movements from one narrative to anot= her and in and out of real life. ... Indeed, when it comes to fan fiction, = the internet is giving us back something like an oral society, in which peo= ple can retell the stories that are most important to them and, in so doing= , change them. ... [T]hese communities in which readers become writers, fan= s become creators and old tales become new, also give out blasts of energy.= And they remind us that the power of these fantasy worlds are not built ju= st on profit and loss, but on imagination responding to imagination.=
= = ~Natasha Walter, The Guardian: October 28, 2004



I liked it well enough to save i= t when I discovered fanfiction and it has survived broken down computers an= d reformatted discs=C2=A0 through the years!


Angelica


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster= /
http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org
--0015175cb07e513437049ce61e4c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3298 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2921 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 22:30:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2011 22:30:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f46.google.com) (209.85.215.46) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 22:30:44 -0000 X-Received: by ewy6 with SMTP id 6so1186605ewy.33 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 14:30:43 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.213.17.1 with SMTP id q1mr3663369eba.9.1298413843269; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 14:30:43 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from [10.0.0.3] (D4CC9DFD.cm-2.dynamic.ziggo.nl [212.204.157.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u1sm6408465eeh.16.2011.02.22.14.30.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 22 Feb 2011 14:30:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4D64389E.5000407@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 23:28:46 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <211311.51467.qm@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Salon.com: "Middle-earth According to Mordor" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=fdpBjoD8UmmTGdPMs9Eh7anzJ8Z5vQ7PdgtyulgCTaYo5iamWXzJc7c X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard On 22-2-2011 19:30, Karolina W�grzyn wrote: > Then again we've got a lot of parodies among fan fiction, within fair > use would be legal I guess. Fair use is not the same defined around the > world, but as far as I know parodies are save in every free country. > Maybe because parodies let to crit politics and governments in ways a > debate cannot. Whatever I find it nor fair regarding fan creations. > Especially that a parody could be done by haters and gain profit, while > lovers cannot even really freely create? Defamation should be the key, > in every case defined by the copyrights owner. Not fair to fan ficcers > either, for our views on defamation differ a lot, but generally fair > allowing to create and publish a lot more. > The Berne Convention has a whole article devoted to it: BERNE CONVENTION FOR THE PROTECTION OF LITERARY AND ARTISTIC WORKS (Paris Text 1971) Article 10 (1) It shall be permissible to make quotations from a work which has already been lawfully made available to the public, provided that their making is compatible with fair practice, and their extent does not exceed that justified by the purpose, including quotations from newspaper articles and periodicals in the form of press summaries. (2) It shall be a matter for legislation in the countries of the Union, and for special agreements existing or to be concluded between them, to permit the utilization, to the extent justified by the purpose, of literary or artistic works by way of illustration in publications, broadcasts or sound or visual recordings for teaching, provided such utilization is compatible with fair practice. (3) Where use is made of works in accordance with the preceding paragraphs of this Article, mention shall be made of the source, and of the name of the author, if it appears thereon. -- The key thing is to pay attention to the words countries of the Union, that is, the countries that have signed the convention. For Tolkien you'd have to take a closer look at UK Copyright Law (there you have to look for fair dealing (Fair dealing uses are research and study; review and critique; parody and satire; news reportage and the giving of professional advice for example legal advice). More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright,_Designs_and_Patents_Act_1988 Then of course with legislation and matters that have been taken to court, there is the Berne Three Step-test: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_three-step_test And of course for the EU, there are also the European Union directives to take into account. Copyright laws vary per nation, I do know our nation's one by heart simply because I have worked with it quit a lot (making scientific readers, dissertations and calculating how much of the work used of another cited or quoted would fall under fair use and what not (for that we had to pay a fee to the national copyright)), I know that it is very strict and the fees are immensely high. We have some institutions who are very, eum, on the job so to speak. Parody in my country are allowed, but even those are restricted, so even if you'd want to claim that you don't get away so easily.. Just for the discussion: Fair use in the states: "the fair use of a copyrighted work (...) for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright" From Copyright Act of 1976 as 17 U.S.C. � 107. http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html Happy reading ;) Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3299 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56198 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2011 16:36:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2011 16:36:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2011 16:36:51 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2011 16:36:51 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2011 16:36:51 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:36:49 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Doc Bushwell" Subject: More on "The Last Ringbearer" from the author, Kirill Yeskov X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=4Gr_ckjpQMxGSJt5EUuRgnmhqo6tx3__5hRZ8Kf2zj1sX2_2qsdLBIJU X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 Here's the link to his letter to Salon, "Why I reimagined LOTR from Mordor= 's perspective: http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2011/02/23/last_ringbea= rer_explanation/index.html Upon a cursory skim of the letter, I must echo = Michael Martinez and question Yeskov's depth of knowledge of the legendariu= m as a whole based on what he puts forth there. I had to contain myself at= his discussion of the geological implications of a flat earth with a singl= e continent. Back to orc-scribing... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3300 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47884 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2011 16:20:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2011 16:20:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f52.google.com) (209.85.216.52) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2011 16:20:16 -0000 X-Received: by qwf6 with SMTP id 6so2542245qwf.39 for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2011 08:20:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.45.206 with SMTP id g14mr3074301qaf.235.1298737216316; Sat, 26 Feb 2011 08:20:16 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.28.204 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Feb 2011 08:20:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 11:20:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175ccf146f679b049d31d231 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:1 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month Starting Soon! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ph66gnT5KpxjrIWxphU_QPOA-VEB8HuT3Asb8ItnMBS678lgKdkE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0015175ccf146f679b049d31d231 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Every year, the SWG works with the LotRGenFic community (Many Paths to Tread archive) to put together an event for Back to Middle-earth Month (B2MeM), a fandom-wide "holiday" that is intended to keep enthusiasm for Tolkien's works alive. Since we are a writing group, our events always take shape as creative challenges. This year, we will be offering a daily creative challenge to all writers and artists in the Tolkien fandom who wish to participate! For those of you who were around in 2009, the challenge is very similar to the '09 event except that this year's theme is *Passport to Middle-earth,*and each challenge will tie in to the location featured for that day. (Please note, however, that this does *not* mean that your story has to include that day's location.) We always receive questions about what is and is not eligible for these challenges and so try to answer these questions ahead of time. For full details on how to participate in this challenge and what is and is not eligible (and the former category is *far* larger than the latter), please see our B2MeM 2011 page here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php I had very little to do with writing the challenges for this year, but I just collected them all from Angelica (who wrote most of them), and they are *amazing.* I definitely think they will challenge and inspire many of you! I wish I had time to write for them myself! :) Of course, we wouldn't have a challenge like this without offering something for those of you brave enough to try to create something every day (or even just for a few of the days!) Because the theme is "Passport to Middle-earth," for each challenge you complete, you will receive a stamp for that location for your passport. You can display these stamps right away on your profile or anywhere else HTML is accepted, but my intrepid comods will also be putting together personalized passports for all participants to collect at the end of the challenge. Again, full details are available at the link above. As always, if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me at this address or the moderation staff at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0015175ccf146f679b049d31d231 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Every year, the SWG works with the LotRGenFic communit= y (Many Paths to Tread archive) to put together an event for Back to Middle= -earth Month (B2MeM), a fandom-wide "holiday" that is intended to= keep enthusiasm for Tolkien's works alive. Since we are a writing grou= p, our events always take shape as creative challenges. This year, we will = be offering a daily creative challenge to all writers and artists in the To= lkien fandom who wish to participate!

For those of you who were aro= und in 2009, the challenge is very similar to the '09 event except that= this year's theme is Passport to Middle-earth, and each challen= ge will tie in to the location featured for that day. (Please note, however= , that this does not mean that your story has to include that day= 9;s location.) We always receive questions about what is and is not eligibl= e for these challenges and so try to answer these questions ahead of time. = For full details on how to participate in this challenge and what is and is= not eligible (and the former category is far larger than the latter= ), please see our B2MeM 2011 page here:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/b2mem2011.php

I had very little to do with writing the chall= enges for this year, but I just collected them all from Angelica (who wrote= most of them), and they are amazing. I definitely think they will c= hallenge and inspire many of you! I wish I had time to write for them mysel= f! :)

Of course, we wouldn't have a challenge like this without= offering something for those of you brave enough to try to create somethin= g every day (or even just for a few of the days!) Because the theme is &quo= t;Passport to Middle-earth," for each challenge you complete, you will= receive a stamp for that location for your passport. You can display these= stamps right away on your profile or anywhere else HTML is accepted, but m= y intrepid comods will also be putting together personalized passports for = all participants to collect at the end of the challenge. Again, full detail= s are available at the link above.

As always, if you have any quest= ions, please do not hesitate to contact me at this address or the moderatio= n staff at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.

Best regar= ds,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net= /heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--0015175ccf146f679b049d31d231-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3301 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16809 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2011 13:00:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2011 13:00:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2011 13:00:10 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2011 13:00:09 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2011 13:00:09 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 13:00:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 1 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=gFCcOmehHuQ-TnxxM95WWU8qtI9iLF2lc008eyRbc1rxpoWf_YRM0WI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Greetings, travellers! Today we will kick off with Back to Middle-earth Mo= nth. Today's challenge takes us to NAN ELMOTH and the writing challenge for= today is: Voltaire said that it's not enough to conquer: one must learn t= o seduce. Write a story or poem or create artwork where seduction plays a c= entral role. Please remember that challenge responses do *not* have to inc= lude the location for the day. If you create something for today's challeng= e and would like a stamp on your passport, please leave a comment here: ht= tp://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/ You can find more informat= ion about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past chal= lenges, on our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.= php http://www.lotrgfic.com/viewpage.php?page=3Db2mem2011 Happy writing! = Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3302 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99831 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2011 11:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2011 11:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.100) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2011 11:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.239] by n4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2011 11:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by t4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2011 11:58:20 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2011 11:58:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:58:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=E_FqQtPA3VnFolEAk2pFev78o9Zq4yPt9eKfZUTqMJH-PNVLpyWyOvs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi All! Today we will continue with Back to Middle-earth Month. Today's ch= allenge takes us to LOSGAR and the writing challenge for today is: Defianc= e is defined as the willingness to contend or fight. Write a story or poem = or create artwork where the characters defy authority in some way. Please = remember that challenge responses do *not* have to include the location for= the day. If you create something for today's challenge and would like a st= amp on your passport, please leave a comment here: http://community.livejo= urnal.com/silwritersguild/ Since the question was asked what your comment = should include: A few words that you created something for that day is enou= gh, you don't have to post your work publicly in order to collect a stamp f= or that challenge. If you want others to read or view your work, you can in= clude a link to the story or artwork, or even extra details for a reader. I= t is simply up to you! For the writers who participate, when you post a st= ory to the SWG archive, you can select B2MEm2011 as a challenge. If you ha= ve more questions or want to find more information about this year's Back t= o Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, on our website: htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php http://www.lotrgfic.com/= viewpage.php?page=3Db2mem2011 Happy crafting and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3303 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33205 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2011 12:03:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2011 12:03:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n5-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.101) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2011 12:03:02 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.49] by n5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2011 12:03:01 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by t2.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2011 12:03:01 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2011 12:03:01 -0000 Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 12:03:01 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 3 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=6yvwwXGNEohv8jhKvxeXKcoDxptNx1vCWO_1aabotU5EgCqf_iU8QQU X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi All! A new day and a new location for Back to Middle-earth Month with a= new challenge. Today we are visiting VINYAMAR and the creative challenge f= or today is: Some people have difficulty embracing changes and moving on. = Write a story or poem or create artwork that shows the consequences of refu= sing to change. Please remember that challenge responses do *not* have to = include the location for the day. If you create something for today's chall= enge and would like a stamp on your passport, please leave a comment here: = http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/ Since the question was = asked what your comment should include: A few words that you created someth= ing for that day is enough, you don't have to post your work publicly in or= der to collect a stamp for that challenge. If you want others to read or vi= ew your work, you can include a link to the story or artwork, or even extra= details for a reader. It is simply up to you! If you have more questions = or want to find more information about this year's Back to Middle-earth Mon= th event, including past challenges, visit the following websites: http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php http://www.lotrgfic.com/view= page.php?page=3Db2mem2011 Happy crafting and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3304 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65359 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2011 23:12:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2011 23:12:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n5-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.101) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2011 23:12:07 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.239] by n5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2011 23:12:07 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by t4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2011 23:12:07 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2011 23:12:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 23:12:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 4 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=NB0Pot2-bpJJXxNP0iVNoFbb21exF_Ev8otzg5fhuoU7SiRrw_KjecI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi All! It's a brand new day and we have a new location for Back to Middle= -earth Month with a new challenge. Today we are visiting MITHRIM and the cr= eative challenge for today is: "There would be no one to frighten you if y= ou refused to be afraid." -Ghandi Write a story or poem or create artwork = where the character conquers his or her fears. Please remember that challen= ge responses do *not* have to include the location for the day. Since we'= re a few days into the challenge, now is a good time to remind participants= that we never have due dates associated with our challenges. You are more = than welcome to complete past challenges and claim your stamps for them lat= er! If you create something for today's challenge and would like a stamp o= n your passport, please leave a comment here: http://community.livejournal= .com/silwritersguild/ Don't forget that if you want others to read or view= your work, you can include a link to the story or artwork, or even extra d= etails for a reader. This isn't mandatory though, it is simply up to you! = If you have more questions or want to find more information about this year= 's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, visit the f= ollowing websites: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php h= ttp://www.lotrgfic.com/viewpage.php?page=3Db2mem2011 Happy crafting and wr= iting! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3305 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39045 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2011 02:08:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2011 02:08:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f179.google.com) (209.85.216.179) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2011 02:08:46 -0000 X-Received: by qyk7 with SMTP id 7so1430277qyk.3 for ; Thu, 03 Mar 2011 18:08:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.216.197 with SMTP id hj5mr6050qab.264.1299204525228; Thu, 03 Mar 2011 18:08:45 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.28.204 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Mar 2011 18:08:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 21:08:45 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf300fb3c7378204049d9ea02c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: March 2011 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=EEhHRBrGHMVIUHw_Fw438ltJU_Q5PviN8o3nRQplVAo2EhIG0V2C X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --20cf300fb3c7378204049d9ea02c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, It's a bit later than I like (thanks to my insanely crazy offline life right now), but the March edition of our newsletter has been posted! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/march2011.php March is, of course, Back to Middle-earth Month, and in honor of Tolkien's complete legendarium, Oshun has written a biography this month that bridges between *The Silmarillion *and *The Lord of the Rings.* Although Gildor only appears in LotR, his story connects to the history of *The Silmarillion* and is one of the best illustrations of the deep mythological and historical story that exists beyond the lines of LotR. Oshun's biography explores the popular conjectures about Gildor's history and the connections to the mythology of our own world. As always, the biography is impeccably researched and well worth a read! Of course, our newsletter also contains news from within and beyond our group, and a complete listing of all stories added to the archive during the month of February. An extra special thank you to our newsletter contributors, who are working on tighter-than-usual deadlines because of my internship and have come through nonetheless to keep the newsletter alive. Many, many thanks! Best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --20cf300fb3c7378204049d9ea02c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

It's a bit later than I like (thanks to my insanely cra= zy offline life right now), but the March edition of our newsletter has bee= n posted!

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/march2011.php=

March is, of course, Back to Middle-earth Month, and in honor of T= olkien's complete legendarium, Oshun has written a biography this month= that bridges between The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings.= Although Gildor only appears in LotR, his story connects to the histor= y of The Silmarillion and is one of the best illustrations of the de= ep mythological and historical story that exists beyond the lines of LotR. = Oshun's biography explores the popular conjectures about Gildor's h= istory and the connections to the mythology of our own world. As always, th= e biography is impeccably researched and well worth a read!

Of cour= se, our newsletter also contains news from within and beyond our group, and= a complete listing of all stories added to the archive during the month of= February.

An extra special thank you to our newsletter contributors= , who are working on tighter-than-usual deadlines because of my internship = and have come through nonetheless to keep the newsletter alive. Many, many = thanks!

Best regards to all,

Dawn

-- ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g
--20cf300fb3c7378204049d9ea02c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3306 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88292 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2011 11:32:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2011 11:32:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2011 11:32:30 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2011 11:32:30 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2011 11:32:30 -0000 Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 11:32:28 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 5 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=nONpeTIfXKC36bYT6-gxBwc44H-oRT9j5W7_0KBphpzi9zju3l0AJPk X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Good day to you all! Today we have arrived in MENEGROTH and the creative c= hallenge for today is: Write a story or poem or create artwork that will i= llustrate the consequences of isolation. If you don't have time to write t= oday or this weekend, don't worry, you can respond to these challenges when= ever you have time. Like Dawn always says: we never have due dates associa= ted with our challenges. Whenever you are done, drop a comment (you do not= need a livejournal account to leave a comment) to collect your stamp for o= n your passport, you can do that here: http://community.livejournal.com/si= lwritersguild/ Don't forget that if you want others to read or view your w= ork, you can include a link to the story or artwork, or even extra details = for a reader as much as you like. This isn't mandatory though, it is simply= up to you! Since we have mentioned passports and stamps, Tarion, Dawn and= yours truly will be starting on passports very soon. That means you will s= oon have a passport to display with the stamps you've earned so far! We wil= l be updating passports about once per week. If you have an LJ account, we = will be sending you information on how to display your passport through an = LJ message. If you don't have an LJ account but do belong to LotRGen/MPTT o= r SWG, we will email you through that site. If you don't have an LJ account= or belong to either of those groups but want a passport, please leave your= email address on any post at livejournal. (Anonymous comments will not sho= w up until we unscreen them, and we will not unscreen any comments that con= tain email addresses.) For an overview of the challenges so far and more i= nformation about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including pa= st challenges, visit the following websites: http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org/b2mem2011.php http://www.lotrgfic.com/viewpage.php?page=3Db2mem2= 011 That's it I think. Happy crafting and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3308 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61843 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2011 09:29:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2011 09:29:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2011 09:29:58 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2011 09:29:57 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2011 09:29:57 -0000 Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 09:29:55 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 6 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=DMB_ROD0EgC4SVSXE958wW18XMsc8d2LgsanHxxSfEhLbwSPyk8KRpM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Good day to you all! Today we have arrived at LAKE HELEVORN and the creati= ve challenge for today is: Greed is good! Write a story or poem or create = artwork that will prove or disprove this statement. Whenever you are done= - Whenever you have time - drop a comment (you do not need a livejournal a= ccount to leave a comment) to collect your stamp for on your passport, you = can do that here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/ My co= mods and I are in the process of putting together the first round of passpo= rts! Please leave a comment on this post if you need a stamp added to your = passport for Day Six. We are not keeping track of participation on any othe= r groups. If you've posted the story publicly, we encourage you to include = a link as well, so that others can enjoy your entry. For an overview of th= e challenges so far and more information about this year's Back to Middle-e= arth Month event, including past challenges, visit the following websites: = http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php http://www.lotrgfic.= com/viewpage.php?page=3Db2mem2011 That's it I think. Have a fantastic Sund= ay and I wish you all happy crafting and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3309 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20329 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2011 11:46:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m16.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2011 11:46:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2011 11:46:04 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2011 11:46:03 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2011 11:46:03 -0000 Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:46:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=v_rFMcR129CYWZvg88agIy6D9xIJ3jwQBtScUTQEK1Y8GxR0ufmjg0k X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all! Today we have arrived in BELEGOST and the creative challenge for t= oday is: Overcoming prejudices is as hard in Middle-earth as in our primar= y universe. Write a story or poem or create artwork where the characters tr= y to reach across racial or gender or any other barrier. Since we have arr= ived at the end of the first week of B2MEM, we will start to send out the f= irst round of passports soon. They are nearly finished, so look for your li= nk in your LJ or email inbox in the next few days! Please remember to comme= nt on the day's post at our *livejournal community: http://community.livejo= urnal.com/silwritersguild/ * in order to have that day's stamp added to you= r passport. We are only looking at this community when determining who need= s what stamps on their passport. If you cannot post to LJ, please contact u= s at moderator@silmarillionwritersguild.org and we'll work it out! For an = overview of the challenges so far and more information about this year's Ba= ck to Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, visit the follow= ing websites: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php http:/= /www.lotrgfic.com/viewpage.php?page=3Db2mem2011 That's it I think. Have a = fantastic day and I wish you all happy crafting and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3310 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58012 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2011 13:01:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m16.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2011 13:01:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2011 13:01:55 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2011 13:01:54 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2011 13:01:54 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 13:01:52 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 8 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=tLtD5uNVBG1masisUg59quaGZrcKhsiSe0sa4xcyjGHzmgEuWr5Z7nQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi All, A new week and a new challenge for day 8 where we will visit the r= ugged lands of DORTHONION. The creative challenge for today is: >From the l= one shieling of the misty island, Mountains divide us, and the waste of sea= s - Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland, And we in dreams = behold the Hebrides! Fair these broad meads, these hoary woods are grand; B= ut we are exiles from our fathers' land. - from the "Canadian Boat Song", = attributed to John Galt Write a story or poem or create a piece of artwork= reflecting identification with or connection to one's land, country or cul= ture. Or write a story or poem or create a piece of artwork featuring kil= ts. Yes, kilts ;) And two challenges to choose from! To the best of my kn= owledge, all passports have been sent out to those who have left comments o= n tje livejournal entries! If, for some reason, you haven't heard from me o= r one of the other mods about your passport, contact us at moderator(at)sil= marillionwritersguild.org. Don't forget to leave a comment on the livejour= nal post when you complete your entry for today's challenge, and we will ad= d Dorthonion's stamp to your passport and in a week you can see what stamps= you have collected over the past two weeks. If your piece is publicly post= ed, we encourage you to share a link so that others can enjoy your story, p= oem, or artwork! If you're just joining us, just a reminder that none of t= hese challenges have due dates. If you see a past challenge you like, pleas= e do respond to it and let us know so that we can stamp your passport! Fin= ally (and then I think I have covered it all for now), Dawn was asked the f= ollowing question a few times now and I am just the messenger (don't shoot = me): Yes, a single piece can satisfy multiple challenges and be eligible fo= r stamps for all of them. For example, if you've chosen to write a 10,000-w= ord story that satisfies three challenges, that is perfectly acceptable, an= d all three stamps are yours. We want our authors who write longer works to= feel just as welcome and able to succeed as those who prefer ficlets and o= ther short works! Dawn has updated the event guidelines to reflect this cla= rification. That's it I think! May the muses not pounce you all too badly = when they see the word kilt ;) Have a fantastic Monday and I wish you all h= appy crafting and writing! Rhapsody (Aegnor in a kilt, now that's food for= thought) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3311 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11787 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2011 13:14:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2011 13:14:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2011 13:14:31 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2011 13:14:30 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2011 13:14:30 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 13:14:29 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 9 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=GOmkiwDkI15zbpoZkbk1zkNDCDax_YOX7y2oWD8Gh990BCt8Jm33kVA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi All, A new day, a new location and a new challenge! Today we've arrived= at the gates of NARGOTHROND. The creative challenge for today is: Write = a story or poem or create artwork where the characters have to decide betwe= en loyalty or betrayal. Please comment on the livejournal post (http://com= munity.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/183743.html) if you need today's sta= mp added to your passport; we're not looking at links/entries posted on any= other sites, comms, or mailing lists. Please also include a link, if your = post is public, so that others may enjoy your contribution! Don't forget t= hat you can jump in any time. Old challenges are always fair game, so if yo= u miss a day that you found really inspiring, please feel free to go back a= nd complete it at any time! Have a great Writing Wednesday! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3312 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64173 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2011 13:31:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2011 13:31:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2011 13:31:37 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2011 13:31:36 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2011 13:31:36 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:31:35 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 10 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=voMt01ILyFJFJ0c-inI5vhHPFV5WtGI-fV_mxsbs_WEInXbGVvGeijk X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all! Today we have arrived at the gates of GONDOLIN and the creative ch= allenge for today is: Start a story or poem with Charles Dickens' famous o= pening line from A Tale of Two Cities: "It was the best of times, it was th= e worst of times." (If you're creating a piece of artwork for this challeng= e, use this line as your theme or title.) Have you written something and y= ou want to claim your passport or if you are curious what the challenges re= sponses are to this one, go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwrite= rsguild/183808.html Click on the link below to get an overview of the chal= lenges and comments left by participants: http://community.livejournal.com/= silwritersguild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so far and m= ore information about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, includi= ng past challenges, visit the following websites: http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php Have a fantastic day and I wish you all happ= y crafting and writing with cooperative muses! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3313 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10720 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2011 07:51:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2011 07:51:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2011 07:51:32 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2011 07:51:32 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2011 07:51:32 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 07:51:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 11 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=Tin8xmtiHORbYLDXNDUD1XqAO894mnlOzs9AAkdeW8RElm0-uUsYY_w X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Goodmorning (or good evening for those in the east of me) to you all, Day = 11 and on this day we have arrived at the HIMRING. Today's challenge is: "= Peace demands the most heroic labor and the most heroic sacrifices." Thomas= Merton Write a story or poem or create artwork where characters make sacr= ifices in order to achieve their goals. Have you written something and you= want to claim your passport or if you are curious what the challenges resp= onses are to this one, go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwriters= guild/184098.html Click on the link below to get an overview of the challe= nges and comments left by participants: http://community.livejournal.com/si= lwritersguild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so far and mor= e information about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including= past challenges, visit the following websites: http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org/b2mem2011.php Have a fantastic day and I wish you all happy = crafting and writing with cooperative muses! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3314 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76818 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2011 11:05:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2011 11:05:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n41b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.155) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2011 11:05:32 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2011 11:05:31 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2011 11:05:31 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 11:05:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 12 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=eSJlXZqf4qulOKQkFHwQx-S8AEGz5GB1lWKpOZHUTCu_Mp_Z0DpCwpM X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, On the 12th of March the tour has stopped at the Falls of Sirion. = Today's challenge is: Elves are one with Nature. What about Men? Hobbits? = Dwarves? Write a story or poem or create artwork where the way different ra= ces relate to Nature is shown. Have you written something and you want to = claim your passport or if you are curious what the challenges responses are= to this one, go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/184= 337.html Click on the link below to get an overview of the challenges and = comments left by the participants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwrit= ersguild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so far and more inf= ormation about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past= challenges, visit the following websites: http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/b2mem2011.php Have a fantastic day and I wish you all happy craft= ing and writing with cooperative muses! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3315 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92507 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2011 13:12:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m15.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2011 13:12:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n5-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.101) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2011 13:12:22 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.48] by n5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2011 13:12:21 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by t1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2011 13:12:21 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2011 13:12:21 -0000 Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 13:12:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 13 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=K5pnfc9LDNfiigLqU3FIhKDJcaiI6YFKQI2ADC7EtR_wb3vNK4YO67c X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, The next stop on this Sunday the 13th of March is Balar. Today's c= hallenge is: Write a story or poem or create artwork featuring unanswered = requests, prayers or pleas. Have you written something and you want to cla= im your passport or if you are curious what the challenges responses are to= this one, go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/184786= .html Click on the link below to get an overview of the challenges and com= ments left by the participants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwriters= guild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so far and more inform= ation about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past ch= allenges, visit the following websites: http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org/b2mem2011.php Have a great Sunday and I wish you all happy crafting = and writing with cooperative muses! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3316 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1554 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2011 13:34:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2011 13:34:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.100) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2011 13:34:34 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.49] by n4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2011 13:34:33 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by t2.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2011 13:34:33 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2011 13:34:33 -0000 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:34:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 14 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=HKMbPA1IOELyKYhFOHM_TyfJNkecUSSpGUEhtVy1CvTfBmjNtNm2o2U X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Happy Monday to you all! The next destination on this day, 14th of March, = is Armenelos. Today's destination is the last stop from among the locations= for the Second Age and earlier! Tomorrow, we will start on destinations fr= om the Third Age. The for today challenge is: Write a story or create a pi= ece of art centred on freedom of religion (or lack thereof), heresy, and/or= religious rites. Have you created something and you want to claim your pa= ssport or if you are curious what the challenges responses are to this one,= go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/185050.html Cli= ck on the link below to get an overview of the challenges and comments left= by the participants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/= b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so far and more information abou= t this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, = visit the following websites: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2me= m2011.php I hope you all have a good start of the week and I wish you all = happy crafting and writing with cooperative muses! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3317 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38504 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2011 14:09:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2011 14:09:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2011 14:09:40 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2011 14:09:39 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2011 14:09:39 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:09:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 15 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=TfPDduHiWMIqxPlWj01uPxovLUchJNwm-x01El7lzbYCIFqSWiZPAUY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all! We're almost half way and the entourage has stopped in the Shire. = The for today challenge is: The cuisine of the Shire is unsurpassed. Write= a story or poem, or create a work of art, featuring food. Have you create= d something and you want to claim your passport or if you are curious what = the challenges responses are to this one, go here: http://community.livejou= rnal.com/silwritersguild/185439.html Click on the link below to get an ove= rview of the challenges and comments left by the participants: http://commu= nity.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the ch= allenges so far and more information about this year's Back to Middle-earth= Month event, including past challenges, visit the following website: http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php I hope you all have a gr= eat day and I wish you all happy crafting and writing with cooperative muse= s! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3318 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9138 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2011 14:00:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2011 14:00:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2011 14:00:05 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2011 14:00:05 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2011 14:00:05 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:00:03 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 16 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=-xdzEiiA9is7hhBdJ80jpi_WCnqK3ArQ4cv6Npx72EbmcF6MvB8a8FQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard We're half way and today we visit the Kingdom of Arnor. The for today chall= enge is: A gentle breeze brushed the hilltop, combing the ruins... Write = a story or poem that starts with this line or create a piece of art that re= flects this line. Have you created something and you want to claim your pa= ssport or if you are curious what the challenges responses are to this one,= go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/185844.html Cli= ck on the link below to get an overview of the challenges and comments left= by the participants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/= b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so far and more information abou= t this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, = visit the following website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem= 2011.php I hope you all have a great day and I wish you all happy crafting= and writing with cooperative muses! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3319 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30829 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2011 15:54:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2011 15:54:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2011 15:54:17 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2011 15:54:17 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2011 15:54:17 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:54:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 17 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=70gDIYhGFNrlKVQPjNwm3g-0vKcg5qXLMR2Ke2bK5ALroFz4bVvargc X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Happy St Patricks Day! And on this day we visit Bree-lands. The for today = challenge is: Hobbits are well known for their gift-giving traditions. Wri= te a story or poem in which the exchange of gifts is featured, or use "gift= ing" as a theme for a piece of art. Have you created something and you wan= t to claim your passport or if you are curious what the challenges response= s are to this one, go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguil= d/185984.html Click on the link below to get an overview of the challenges= and comments left by the participants: http://community.livejournal.com/si= lwritersguild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so far and mor= e information about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including= past challenges, visit the following website: http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org/b2mem2011.php I hope you all have a great day and I wish you = all happy crafting and writing where the muses keep the naughty leprechauns= at bay! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3320 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50848 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2011 21:32:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2011 21:32:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2011 21:32:03 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2011 21:32:03 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2011 21:32:02 -0000 Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 21:32:01 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 18 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=BAd5nLj17bYose-NxsU2b25pPsbaz5JFlMCf93S8owB-n08baYn4a1Q X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, Today we have arrived at Wilderland and today's challenge is: The= re is no beautifier of complexion, or form, or behavior, like the wish to s= catter joy and not pain around us. 'Tis good to give a stranger a meal, or = a night's lodging. 'Tis better to be hospitable to his good meaning and tho= ught, and give courage to a companion. We must be as courteous to a man as = we are to a picture, which we are willing to give the advantage of a good l= ight. - Ralph Waldo Emerson The act of kindness or hospitability usually = comes from a generous heart. Write a story or poem, or create a piece of ar= t where your character displays this virtue. Have you created something a= nd you want to claim your passport or if you are curious what the challenge= s responses are to this one, go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silw= ritersguild/186161.html Click on the link below to get an overview of the = challenges and comments left by the participants: http://community.livejour= nal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so f= ar and more information about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event,= including past challenges, visit the following website: http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php I hope you all have a great day and I= wish you all happy crafting and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3321 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69744 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2011 15:07:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m16.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2011 15:07:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2011 15:07:49 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2011 15:07:49 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2011 15:07:48 -0000 Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:07:47 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 19 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=js5KdDltoPTaZIvtZYm6uHujkljtLT8_AxtsFaLki1ZRUBB--1WQp5w X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all!, Today we visit Rivendell and the challenge for today is: "Every = parting is a form of death, as every reunion is a type of heaven." --Tryon = Edwards. Write a story or create a piece of artwork centred on meetings or= reunions. Dawn has left some announcements at today's lj entry, so I wil= l share them here as well: For those who noticed and fell in love with the= amazing details Rhapsody included in her postcard for Bree (http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org/images/b2mem11/bree-pc.png) the other day, she ha= s kindly offered to make wallpaper from the image for anyone who's interest= ed. Just drop a comment here! I haven't been posting daily reminders latel= y, but since we have some new folks aboard (and may have others eying the c= hallenge from afar but not sure if they want to get involved at this point)= , today's a good time for a quick recap. Challenges never expire. So if yo= u're coming along now and see something in the past 18 challenges to inspir= e you, please do create something for them--and, yes, please do request pas= sport stamps too! We don't believe in "late" here. We do believe that we al= l have busy lives and uncooperative muses and can't always get a challenge = done "on time"! :) The question has come up as to when we will stop adding= new stamps to passports. I'm willing to keep adding stamps for as long as = folks are still creating for challenges, with the understanding that, after= B2MeM, I won't be budgeting time every day for the event and won't be as o= n-the-ball with getting stamps added as our mods working on passports have = been. But if you're hoping to write for some of the challenges in the next = few months or over the summer and want a passport, please do request one! = I think everyone who's commented here should have heard from a mod about th= eir passport by now. If you have not, please leave a comment here or drop m= e a line at DawnFelagund(at)gmail.com. And (last thing!) ... you do not ne= ed to post a piece publicly to get a stamp for it. That includes works in p= rogress. (Some participants, for example, are responding to challenges as p= art of longer WiPs.) And for those who prefer to write longer stories, you = may respond to and receive stamps for multiple challenges completed in a si= ngle story. (Part of me is tempted, when I actually get around to doing the= se challenges myself, to find a way to work them all into a single long sto= ry ...) -- Have you created something and you want to claim your passport= or if you are curious what the challenges responses are to this one, go he= re: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/186467.html Click on = the link below to get an overview of the challenges and comments left by th= e participants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2mem1= 1 For an overview of the challenges so far and more information about this= year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, visit = the following website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.p= hp Now it's off to the swimming pool with my eldest for his class. Have a = fantastic Saturday and may the muses play nicely. Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3322 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37939 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2011 12:00:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2011 12:00:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2011 12:00:03 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.172] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2011 12:00:03 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t14.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2011 12:00:03 -0000 Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:00:02 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 20 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=gF_r1ER18VeIeG8ZgiarHIpT34rAwfcPfm77wQ465vP72WwtzwEY_00 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, The last day of winter, we're about to climb the Misty Mountains = and today's challenge is: Write a story or poem or create an artwork in wh= ich a character unaccustomed to acting as a leader must make an important d= ecision. Have you created something and you want to claim your passport or= if you are curious what the challenges responses are to this one, go here:= http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/186824.html Click on the= link below to get an overview of the challenges and comments left by the p= articipants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2mem11 = For an overview of the challenges so far and more information about this ye= ar's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, visit the= following website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php = Have a happy Sunday, I wish you all a splendid time with crafting and writ= ing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3323 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7368 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2011 02:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2011 02:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2011 02:15:41 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1300673732; bh=pgJwlb6R2aHPf+K1KJ2o2+dUq9oLINH1unAQ9te5kcE=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=kMAH4AFJQYgqE9cWQE+2QIcuRFQ7iOyIXqxvQ2qBkfgdn4A+JtGN+qptm2AKd9yxuaKBIyPHRfdcAgTzTCh7TPIW45tCIAVq6/3VDNC6RCRABiLJ8wadwLII5xd0VI5u Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2011 02:15:32 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2011 02:15:08 -0000 X-Sender: isisrising08@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33668 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2011 01:10:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m16.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2011 01:10:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2011 01:10:14 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2011 01:10:13 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2011 01:10:13 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 01:10:11 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system From: "Sandra" Subject: Tolkien Item Up for Sale on eBay X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=395515053; y=WIxCyx0dbqjaa1xkz0KJnrtJ-S5LusgP2-ART7nUEzeIhgzR X-Yahoo-Profile: live2bead X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 21 Mar 2011 02:15:06 -0000 Dawn told me that I could post here directly, and I hope that you grant me = the indulgence of allowing me to do to. This auction starts on Sunday the = 20th and ends on the 27th. Tolkien-based jewelry box up for sale on eBay= to garner funds to eliminate colorectal cancer. The box, with a flip down= ring holder and two partitioned, nested trays inside, features a painted, = beaded silk top with an etched copper disk with a Swarovski crystal. The d= isk is etched with Tengwar text from Tolkien's "The Silmarillion". The ins= ide cover has a second etched copper plaque translating the Tengwar text. = Totally handmade by Sandra Graves (aka Erulisse =96 one L). For additional= views, check out the gallery at Beadingforacure.org or my personal website= at IsisRising08.com . Please bid high on this unique item. If you have= questions, feel free to Email me personally, just use the Yahoo link. -= Erulisse (one L) Sandra Graves, Isis Rising From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3324 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46707 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2011 14:33:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2011 14:33:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2011 14:33:33 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2011 14:33:33 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2011 14:33:33 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:33:32 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 21 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=4OZ6HJsymerIEltxzushNg3aw-DOCOjPZLvV-Loy-NwEYWZFSZ0y0fs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all! Today we have arrived in Mirkwood and today's challenge is: We we= re young, we were merry, we were very, very wise, And the door stood open a= t our feast, When there passed us a woman with the West in her eyes, And a = man with his back to the East. -Mary Elizabeth Coleridge The words West an= d East are often used in the works of Tolkien. Write a story or poem or cre= ate an artwork that uses these words as the central focus, whether as cardi= nals, regions, or as metaphors. Have you created something and you want to= claim your passport or if you are curious what the challenges responses ar= e to this one, go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/18= 7133.html Click on the link below to get an overview of the challenges and= comments left by the participants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwri= tersguild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so far and more in= formation about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including pas= t challenges, visit the following website: http://www.silmarillionwritersg= uild.org/b2mem2011.php I hope you all have a great Monday, Spring is here = and I wish you all happy crafting and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3325 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27828 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2011 00:24:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2011 00:24:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f48.google.com) (209.85.216.48) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2011 00:24:21 -0000 X-Received: by mail-qw0-f48.google.com with SMTP id 9so5620816qwj.21 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:24:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.176.84 with SMTP id bd20mr4039418qab.257.1300753461056; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:24:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.89.68 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:24:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf303637f9fc9462049f0743af From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Upcoming Archive Downtime X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Pl-E7Cwao3DpSRU_OBZ4iNjLmUjVgU9yb-azzVziIIF7wh2zuJgy X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --20cf303637f9fc9462049f0743af Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I just received an email from our archive's webhost that they will be moving our server to a new data center sometime between 9 PM on March 21st and 5 AM on March 22nd (MDT). They expect the move to take between 1 and 3 hours, during which the site will be down. This shouldn't impact our North and South American members, but members in Europe and Asia may see the site down during prime surfing time. If anything changes or any problems arise, my comods and I will keep you posted, of course. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --20cf303637f9fc9462049f0743af Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I just received an email from our archive's webhost tha= t they will be moving our server to a new data center sometime between 9 PM= on March 21st and 5 AM on March 22nd (MDT). They expect the move to take b= etween 1 and 3 hours, during which the site will be down. This shouldn'= t impact our North and South American members, but members in Europe and As= ia may see the site down during prime surfing time. If anything changes or = any problems arise, my comods and I will keep you posted, of course.
Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felag= und
http://themi= dhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--20cf303637f9fc9462049f0743af-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3326 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92877 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2011 18:07:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2011 18:07:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2011 18:07:42 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2011 18:07:42 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2011 18:07:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:07:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 22 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=8JhQ2o7go6-pbOIx5oMklnJNl73Hpe9yzOB1np-c9TnjKrHX0tWAHjA X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Today we have arrived at Erebor and today's challenge is: Refugee issues a= re our issues; their plight is our plight. Write a story or poem or create = artwork that illustrates the situation of some displaced group in Middle-ea= rth. Have you created something and you want to claim your passport or if = you are curious what the challenges responses are to this one, go here: htt= p://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/187177.html Click on the lin= k below to get an overview of the challenges and comments left by the parti= cipants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2mem11 For = an overview of the challenges so far and more information about this year's= mBack to Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, visit the fo= llowing website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php I = hope you all have a great day and I wish you all happy crafting and writing= ! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3327 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70438 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2011 15:31:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2011 15:31:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2011 15:31:20 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2011 15:31:20 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2011 15:31:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:31:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 23 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=DvRg0tPiJnjknfyG0BiF31G90n5BpqHis_C-g7LEr3WHEY-jN8m-QTo X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, Dol Guldur is today's destination and the challenge is: Everyone = avoided the tower. It was believed to have ... Write a story or poem that = starts with this line or create a piece of art that reflects this line. H= ave you created something and you want to claim your passport or if you are= curious what the challenges responses are to this one, go here: http://com= munity.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/187541.html Click on the link below= to get an overview of the challenges and comments left by the participants= : http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2mem11 We still ha= ve newcomers joining us, so I'd like to remind them that challenges don't e= xpire, and you can find out all you need to know about what's eligible from= the B2MeM guidelines. (If you don't see what you need, please just ask!) A= nd for an overview of the challenges so far and more information about this= year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, visit = the following website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.p= hp I hope you all have a great day and I wish you all happy crafting and w= riting! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3328 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54141 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2011 15:01:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2011 15:01:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n5-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.101) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2011 15:01:43 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.239] by n5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2011 15:01:43 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by t4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2011 15:01:43 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2011 15:01:43 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:01:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 24 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=hEbR2ggfPWjvZ56XYYqnvxj3e4lQMl0qV7VWvNt_Ojroo75a-A5CkNU X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all! Have you ever been to Rhosgobel? This is your chance since it is t= oday's location. This challenge for today: Write a story or poem or create= artwork using one or more animals as symbols, omens, or metaphors. Use ass= ociations and meanings from any culture or source you wish (e.g., Celtic, N= ative American, Biblical). Have you created something and you want to clai= m your passport or if you are curious what the challenges responses are to = this one, go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/187720.= html Click on the link below to get an overview of the challenges and comm= ents left by the participants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersg= uild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so far and more informa= tion about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past cha= llenges, visit the following website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org/b2mem2011.php I hope you all have a great day and I wish you all happy= crafting and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3329 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46447 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2011 15:17:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2011 15:17:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n41b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.155) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2011 15:17:55 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2011 15:14:34 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2011 15:14:34 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:14:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 25 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=TcYBd8IRuBKNGvs3xooyRZFnCEF4DnE2-nv2A1CMgdmbESDJ1Oakj6Y X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, It's almost weekend and today we've arrived at Lothlorien. Today's= challenge is: She knelt on the floor, carefully picking up the shards of= glass. Why did it have to be this one that broke? Start a story with the= se two lines and answer the question of what was once broken. Or create a p= oem or piece of art that pictures this scene. Have you created something a= nd you want to claim your passport or if you are curious what the challenge= s responses are to this one, go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silw= ritersguild/187943.html Click on the link below to get an overview of the = challenges and comments left by the participants: http://community.livejour= nal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so f= ar and more information about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event,= including past challenges, visit the following website: http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php I hope you all have a great start of = the weekend and I wish you all happy crafting and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3330 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48846 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2011 18:05:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2011 18:05:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2011 18:05:46 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2011 18:05:46 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2011 18:05:46 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 18:05:46 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 26 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=IBcuP49SOjcTA6w_Qg5Wv_Jam8PCnuZ3e8I6--mj3h2YRSmCKzlV73A X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, Day 26 brings us to Isengard and today's challenge is: "Pride is = still aiming at the best houses: Men would be angels, angels would be gods.= Aspiring to be gods, if angels fell; aspiring to be angels men rebel." --A= lexander Pope How would a character not allowed to express his or her tho= ughts, creativity, or opinion act out? Capture this in a story, poem or pie= ce of art. Have you created something and you want to claim your passport = or if you are curious what the challenges responses are to this one, go her= e: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/188245.html Click on t= he link below to get an overview of the challenges and comments left by the= participants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2mem11= For an overview of the challenges so far and more information about this = year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, visit t= he following website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.ph= p I hope you all have a great weekend and I wish you all happy crafting an= d writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3331 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24508 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2011 13:40:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m11.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2011 13:40:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.100) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2011 13:40:32 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.49] by n4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2011 13:40:32 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by t2.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2011 13:40:32 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2011 13:40:32 -0000 Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:40:31 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 27 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=vZZKnlP0KJbekWoUSmzziwmmwwPxwJ1noHG5lW2LTKpgC8ZUmRsND38 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, 't is a sunny Sunday here and today we have arrived in Rohan. Toda= y's challenge is: A horse is the projection of peoples' dreams about thems= elves - strong, powerful, beautiful - and it has the capability of giving u= s escape from our mundane existence. Pam Brown Write a story or poem, or = create a piece of art where your character rises above themselves to follow= their dreams. Have you created something and you want to claim your passp= ort or if you are curious what the challenges responses are to this one, go= here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/188424.html Click = on the link below to get an overview of the challenges and comments left by= the participants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2m= em11 For an overview of the challenges so far and more information about t= his year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, vis= it the following website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem201= 1.php I hope you all have a great weekend and I wish you all happy craftin= g and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3332 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54164 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2011 13:00:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2011 13:00:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2011 13:00:48 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2011 12:58:51 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2011 12:57:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:57:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 28 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=5r8qVT1QK6AH8577alWOprmNqo_c42k5lPhBjOjIlL-wcXZKSiz9YT8 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, Welcome to the last week of B2MEM 2011 and today we've arrived in = Gondor. Today's challenge is: There was no avoiding it; the letter had to = be composed... Who will receive this letter? An uncle? A lover? The High-= King? Why is there "no avoiding it"? Circumstances? Or is Mother watching w= ith arms crossed? Will the letter be written in haste? Or will each phrase = be meticulously crafted? Write a story or poem inspired by this line (you= do not need to use the exact quote), or create a piece of art that reflect= s this situation. Have you created something and you want to claim your pa= ssport or if you are curious what the challenges responses are to this one,= go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/189153.html Cli= ck on the link below to get an overview of the challenges and comments left= by the participants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/= b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so far and more information abou= t this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past challenges, = visit the following website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem= 2011.php I hope you all have a nice Monday and I wish you all happy crafti= ng and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3333 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66184 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2011 17:19:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m16.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2011 17:19:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2011 17:19:54 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2011 17:19:54 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2011 17:19:54 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:19:51 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 29 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=cjfu4lBAdL8D9JRwMyJtjz0XW3RbHzKyJs_-UQEYyowpROKUq0xi9go X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Today we've arrived in Mordor and today's challenge is: "Darkness is only = driven out with light, not more darkness." --Martin Luther King, Jr. Writ= e a story or poem or create artwork where your character battles and overco= mes their darkest hour. Have you created something and you want to claim y= our passport or if you are curious what the challenges responses are to thi= s one, go here: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/189203.htm= l Click on the link below to get an overview of the challenges and comment= s left by the participants: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguil= d/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the challenges so far and more informatio= n about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, including past challe= nges, visit the following website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org= /b2mem2011.php I hope you all have a nice day and I wish you all happy cra= fting and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3334 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 72924 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2011 01:57:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m15.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2011 01:57:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2011 01:57:47 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1301450266; bh=bDcI4B/jpypg0+vXM9J7l0pgnC4TZI6XD5LIO2Kgx2Y=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=eOR2ej6Vf6deSCPyEjapNkJnkFjJYX/RFSweQxs/M0zeURtq1uL0lezRV1VWvhBcCUe3bAVPLRrb+t4W+2G5kYFGJ/1lMCyGKKbjhlC57ISj2g8GruuRT5iZXvnCWOxS Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2011 01:57:46 -0000 Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2011 01:57:46 -0000 X-Sender: adonnen.estenniel@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67159 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2011 01:56:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m15.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2011 01:56:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2011 01:56:41 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2011 01:56:41 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2011 01:56:41 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 01:56:40 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system From: "Adonnen" Subject: Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=478386873; y=Eop0uZYy4H0Yf--t5-P5eckngqEkv023lsYBxNq__TVAIubOiOMtBLQrxZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: adonnen.estenniel X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 30 Mar 2011 01:57:45 -0000 So I managed to stumble upon SWG just in time for Back to Middle-earth Mont= h, which has been a lot of fun. I've written Tolkien fanfiction for a few = years, but never really though of posting until recently. I do write quite = a bit of poetry, and the occasional short story or drabble. The Silmarill= ion has always intrigued me, and it's been my favourite piece of Tolkien ca= non since I read it a number of years ago. I couldn't honestly say why exac= tly I enjoy it so much, but suffice it to say that I do. Anyway, I look fo= rward to meeting and reading the writing of everyone here. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3335 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35351 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2011 02:01:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2011 02:01:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pv0-f180.google.com) (74.125.83.180) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2011 02:01:27 -0000 X-Received: by pvg2 with SMTP id 2so399310pvg.25 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:01:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.142.126.18 with SMTP id y18mr393730wfc.361.1301450486685; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:01:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.51.9 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:01:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:01:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd30bd4f3a1a6049fa98d60 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Hello X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=JV5qStBAkPsQcQKPkEVbNqdVKMEMXZZshu3tGlbpjVvD5SM7dvoE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000e0cd30bd4f3a1a6049fa98d60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Adonnen! I know we've been communicating back and forth on LJ due to B2MeM but, officially, welcome to the SWG! :) I'm glad you stumbled upon us at such a busy time and joined us for our 31 days of B2MeM madness. Perhaps you will post some of your poems (and other writing!) on the archive? April is International Poetry Month so ... ;) All the best, Dawn On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Adonnen wrote: > > > So I managed to stumble upon SWG just in time for Back to Middle-earth > Month, which has been a lot of fun. > > I've written Tolkien fanfiction for a few years, but never really though of > posting until recently. I do write quite a bit of poetry, and the occasional > short story or drabble. > > The Silmarillion has always intrigued me, and it's been my favourite piece > of Tolkien canon since I read it a number of years ago. I couldn't honestly > say why exactly I enjoy it so much, but suffice it to say that I do. > > Anyway, I look forward to meeting and reading the writing of everyone here. > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000e0cd30bd4f3a1a6049fa98d60 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Adonnen!

I know we've been communicating back and forth on L= J due to B2MeM but, officially, welcome to the SWG! :) I'm glad you stu= mbled upon us at such a busy time and joined us for our 31 days of B2MeM ma= dness.

Perhaps you will post some of your poems (and other writing!= ) on the archive? April is International Poetry Month so ... ;)

All = the best,

Dawn

On Tue, Mar 29, 201= 1 at 9:56 PM, Adonnen <adonnen.estenniel@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
=

So I managed to stumble upon SWG = just in time for Back to Middle-earth Month, which has been a lot of fun.
I've written Tolkien fanfiction for a few years, but never real= ly though of posting until recently. I do write quite a bit of poetry, and = the occasional short story or drabble.

The Silmarillion has alway= s intrigued me, and it's been my favourite piece of Tolkien canon since= I read it a number of years ago. I couldn't honestly say why exactly I= enjoy it so much, but suffice it to say that I do.

Anyway, I loo= k forward to meeting and reading the writing of everyone here.


--
~oOo~
Daw= n Felagund
http:= //themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--000e0cd30bd4f3a1a6049fa98d60-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3336 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45982 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2011 10:36:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2011 10:36:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2011 10:36:35 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2011 10:36:35 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2011 10:36:35 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:36:34 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 30 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=5EcaiC7KURxppUwou1T-zD0O9ENssEaR3lCpBKpEUHsroLeY88iKieg X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, We're almost at the end of the month and at the end of our journey= . A cruiseship awaits us at the Grey Havens and the challenge for today is:= "You can never go home again, but the truth is you can never leave home, = so it's all right." --Maya Angelou Write a story or poem, or create a pie= ce of art on the theme of leaving or returning home. Have you created some= thing and you want to claim your passport or if you are curious what the ch= allenges responses are to this one, go here: http://community.livejournal.c= om/silwritersguild/189580.html Click on the link below to get an overview = of the challenges and comments left by the participants: http://community.l= ivejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the challeng= es so far and more information about this year's Back to Middle-earth Month= event, including past challenges, visit the following website: http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php I hope this Wednesday treats y= ou all kindly and I wish you all happy crafting and writing! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3337 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96719 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2011 20:57:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Mar 2011 20:57:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2011 20:57:32 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Mar 2011 20:57:32 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Mar 2011 20:57:32 -0000 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:57:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM11: Passport to Middle-earth March 31 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=clVnuJCXw-ijoSWo-4RjjZBng-z8wOLeyBuNPt3eWqVDw3UBz4yKkxE X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, My apologies for the delay and this on the final day of Back to Mi= ddle-earth Month 2011. We're at our final destination: Valinor. The challen= ge for today is: "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." = Friedrich Schiller Write a story or poem or create artwork that illustrat= es this quotation. Dawn already said this at the livejournal entry for to= day, but since livejournal has been suffering from DDoS attacks and has bee= n more up than down, I'd like to repost it. ** Well, everyone, this is it:= the last challenge in our month-long event! However, although we won't be= posting anymore challenges, we still welcome late responses, and we will s= till gladly stamp passports for responses completed after the conclusion of= the event. If you've completed all 31 challenges, if you could note this o= n your post when you complete today's challenge, it will let the mods who s= tamp passports double-check that we haven't missed any days for you. I'd en= courage everyone with a passport to check that passport in about a week to = make sure we haven't missed any stamps. This event was truly an example of= how many hands make light work. Many thanks to the mods of SWG (Rhapsody, = Tarion, and Angelica) and MPTT (Dreamflower, Cathleen, and Pearl Took) for = making an ambitious challenge seem almost easy to run to their overworked c= omod (me), who doubted her sanity in wanting to host a major event in the m= idst of her student teaching internship. From writing challenges to stampin= g passports every day, you made this event not only run but run smoothly--t= hank you! Many thanks to all of our participants. Whether you wrote one ch= allenge or thirty-one, we appreciate that you've shared your creativity wit= h us and have continued to support this annual project. Hope to see you al= l next year! :) ** Now, for the last time :) Have you created something = and you want to claim your passport or if you are curious what the challeng= es responses are to this particular one, go here: http://community.livejour= nal.com/silwritersguild/189895.html Click on the link below to get an over= view of the challenges and comments left by the participants: http://commun= ity.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/tag/b2mem11 For an overview of the cha= llenges so far and more information about this year's Back to Middle-earth = Month event, including past challenges, visit the following website: http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2011.php I hope that this Thursday= has been great so far and I wish you all happy crafting and writing even b= eyond B2MEM! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3338 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88743 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2011 20:20:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2011 20:20:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pz0-f49.google.com) (209.85.210.49) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2011 20:20:25 -0000 X-Received: by pzk5 with SMTP id 5so1393910pzk.22 for ; Sat, 02 Apr 2011 13:20:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.142.59.5 with SMTP id h5mr1162605wfa.0.1301775625115; Sat, 02 Apr 2011 13:20:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.165.18 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 13:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 16:20:25 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636b2bc98b656b9049ff5412a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: April 2011 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=z08zNjvcxRsYY0YytEwNUxt6XPxtrGwwSNDX6Duli8REeYFpcBCH X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636b2bc98b656b9049ff5412a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Our newsletter for April 2011 has been posted! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/april2011.php In SWG news, we had a very successful Back to Middle-earth Month this year. You can find a list of the stories created for our 31 challenges in our newsletter, in addition to a list of non-B2MeM stories added and updated. In addition, we move from one "holiday" month right into another, with April being International Poetry Month. As always, we invite our members to try their hands at poetry. In addition, we've included a list of the poems posted on our archive by our members. Oshun has written a biography for us this month on Huan the Hound, a seemingly minor character of enormous plot importance and, also, deeper mythological significance. Once again, Oshun has taken a character with a small role and revealed multiple layers of why that character is significant to the story. I encourage you to check out her excellent essay! As always, we also have a section of the newsletter devoted to news and challenges from other groups outside of the SWG, so if you're longing for more challenges after B2MeM, take a look here for possibilities. Heartfelt thanks go to our newsletter contributors--Oshun, Rhapsody, and Angelica--who put the the bulk of the newsletter content together. (I just tack their work together, code and copyedit, and upload the finished file.) Thank you for the many hours of work you give to the group each month to keep us informed and entertained! Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636b2bc98b656b9049ff5412a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Our newsletter for April 2011 has been posted!

= http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/april2011.php

In SWG ne= ws, we had a very successful Back to Middle-earth Month this year. You can = find a list of the stories created for our 31 challenges in our newsletter,= in addition to a list of non-B2MeM stories added and updated. In addition,= we move from one "holiday" month right into another, with April = being International Poetry Month. As always, we invite our members to try t= heir hands at poetry. In addition, we've included a list of the poems p= osted on our archive by our members.

Oshun has written a biography = for us this month on Huan the Hound, a seemingly minor character of enormou= s plot importance and, also, deeper mythological significance. Once again, = Oshun has taken a character with a small role and revealed multiple layers = of why that character is significant to the story. I encourage you to check= out her excellent essay!

As always, we also have a section of the = newsletter devoted to news and challenges from other groups outside of the = SWG, so if you're longing for more challenges after B2MeM, take a look = here for possibilities.

Heartfelt thanks go to our newsletter contr= ibutors--Oshun, Rhapsody, and Angelica--who put the the bulk of the newslet= ter content together. (I just tack their work together, code and copyedit, = and upload the finished file.) Thank you for the many hours of work you giv= e to the group each month to keep us informed and entertained!

Best= regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhaven= s.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636b2bc98b656b9049ff5412a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3339 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82576 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2011 02:00:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2011 02:00:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-px0-f182.google.com) (209.85.212.182) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2011 02:00:01 -0000 X-Received: by pxi20 with SMTP id 20so2084366pxi.13 for ; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 19:00:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.143.153.18 with SMTP id f18mr7241030wfo.114.1301968800512; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 19:00:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.165.18 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:00:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636e0a59edcfbb404a0223b4a From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Site Redesign and Goals for the Future X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=OsQ8zXSFTjop3GTWoPt2f9qWkdJNhvrl7B-zbSsFdPE167DcG0o2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001636e0a59edcfbb404a0223b4a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, My comods and I have been talking for some time now about some big plans for the group. I hope that we can start working on them this summer, and we would greatly appreciate any input from our members that they care to give! :) First and foremost, we hope to redesign the site this summer. Our current design, while functional, represents my very first foray into the wild and woolly world of CSS layouts. I can do much better these days. Besides, the current design is getting rather old and tired. By the time I cleaned up the current code, I might as well make a new design. Before I explain in greater detail what our plans for the redesign are, I want to make a few points clear: --Whatever redesign we undertake will continue to be motivated by the goals I had when making our current design: accessibility and ease-of-use for as many users as possible. That means that we will continue to keep graphics to a minimum, and all design will be done only with W3C-compliant XHTML and CSS. So no worries that you'll be waiting half of forever for multiple large images to download or that your browser will crash because of the weird scripts we're using. We will always choose functionality over flashiness. --The current layout will continue to be available on the archive portion of the site for members who wish to use it. --The redesign will not affect how the archive functions in any way. This is strictly an aesthetic undertaking. We are hoping to redesign the site in conjunction with a new section to the site: a gallery for members to share and comment on Silmarillion-related artwork. We've always tried to welcome artists to our group, but they have been left in the cold much of the time, without a place to share their work on our website aside from participating in special projects. We hope that a gallery will begin to remedy this. As part of the opening of the gallery, we will be featuring an Artist of the Quarter. The Artist of the Quarter will have their work featured as part of the banner on our website, where currently we have the group logo. This will be the single graphic on our main pages. As my comods and I begin knuckling in for some serious discussion and planning for the redesign, we want very much to hear what you all want to see on the new site design. After all, you all are the ones who use the site regularly to post your work and enjoy the work of others. We want the site to be something most everyone finds easy and pleasant to use. If there is anything about the appearance or organization of the current site that you love, please do share it, so that we know to keep it! If there is anything that you dislike or find difficult to use, we also want to hear from you. If you have preferences or peeves in general where websites are concerned, feel free to share them. Whether you visit the site once a month, once a year, or every day, we want to hear from you! We are a small community, so even a single voice has the power to sway the decisions we make. We welcome feedback on this list, and I've started an LJ thread for comments as well: http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/190374.html Or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Thank you and best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001636e0a59edcfbb404a0223b4a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

My comods and I have been talking for some time now ab= out some big plans for the group. I hope that we can start working on them = this summer, and we would greatly appreciate any input from our members tha= t they care to give! :)

First and foremost, we hope to redesign the= site this summer. Our current design, while functional, represents my very= first foray into the wild and woolly world of CSS layouts. I can do much b= etter these days. Besides, the current design is getting rather old and tir= ed. By the time I cleaned up the current code, I might as well make a new d= esign.

Before I explain in greater detail what our plans for the re= design are, I want to make a few points clear:

--Whatever redesign w= e undertake will continue to be motivated by the goals I had when making ou= r current design: accessibility and ease-of-use for as many users as possib= le. That means that we will continue to keep graphics to a minimum, and all= design will be done only with W3C-compliant XHTML and= CSS. So no worries that you'll be waiting half of forever for multiple= large images to download or that your browser will crash because of the we= ird scripts we're using. We will always choose functionality over flash= iness.

--The current layout will continue to be available on the ar= chive portion of the site for members who wish to use it.

--The rede= sign will not affect how the archive functions in any way. This is strictly= an aesthetic undertaking.

We are hoping to redesign the site in co= njunction with a new section to the site: a gallery for members to share an= d comment on Silmarillion-related artwork. We've always tried to welcom= e artists to our group, but they have been left in the cold much of the tim= e, without a place to share their work on our website aside from participat= ing in special projects. We hope that a gallery will begin to remedy this.<= br>
As part of the opening of the gallery, we will be featuring an Arti= st of the Quarter. The Artist of the Quarter will have their work featured = as part of the banner on our website, where currently we have the group log= o. This will be the single graphic on our main pages.

As my comods = and I begin knuckling in for some serious discussion and planning for the r= edesign, we want very much to hear what you all want to see on the new site= design. After all, you all are the ones who use the site regularly to post= your work and enjoy the work of others. We want the site to be something m= ost everyone finds easy and pleasant to use.

If there is anything a= bout the appearance or organization of the current site that you love, plea= se do share it, so that we know to keep it! If there is anything that you d= islike or find difficult to use, we also want to hear from you. If you have= preferences or peeves in general where websites are concerned, feel free t= o share them. Whether you visit the site once a month, once a year, or ever= y day, we want to hear from you! We are a small community, so even a single= voice has the power to sway the decisions we make.

We welcome feed= back on this list, and I've started an LJ thread for comments as well:<= br>
http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/190374.html
<= br>Or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.

Tha= nk you and best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
D= awn Felagund
htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001636e0a59edcfbb404a0223b4a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3340 Return-Path: X-Sender: surgsteel@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11598 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2011 16:26:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2011 16:26:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2011 16:26:26 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.174] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2011 16:26:21 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t12.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2011 16:26:21 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:26:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "surgeon_ruth" Subject: Re: Site Redesign and Goals for the Future X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=328688752; y=ZBpmpjOXDsWBahugz2xNut8AynZBdjzjj__DmabLAr_MSc2PxKrl X-Yahoo-Profile: surgeon_ruth *de-lurks briefly* This is a semi-related question for you modly types: I = know about the LJ comm, but is there one on Dreamwidth? LJ's been down more= than it's been up for the last several days, so I was wondering if there w= as an alternate LJ-ish community - and if not, if there's any thought about= creating one? *slinks back into lurkerdom* --- In SilmarillionWritersGui= ld@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, everyon= e, > > My comods and I have been talking for some time now about some big = plans for > the group. I hope that we can start working on them this summer= , and we > would greatly appreciate any input from our members that they ca= re to give! > :) > > First and foremost, we hope to redesign the site this= summer. Our current > design, while functional, represents my very first f= oray into the wild and > woolly world of CSS layouts. I can do much better = these days. Besides, the > current design is getting rather old and tired. = By the time I cleaned up the > current code, I might as well make a new des= ign. > > Before I explain in greater detail what our plans for the redesig= n are, I > want to make a few points clear: > > --Whatever redesign we und= ertake will continue to be motivated by the goals > I had when making our c= urrent design: accessibility and ease-of-use for as > many users as possibl= e. That means that we will continue to keep graphics to > a minimum, and al= l design will be done only with W3C-compliant > XHTML and CSS. So = no worries that you'll be waiting half of forever for > multiple large imag= es to download or that your browser will crash because of > the weird scrip= ts we're using. We will always choose functionality over > flashiness. > >= --The current layout will continue to be available on the archive portion = of > the site for members who wish to use it. > > --The redesign will not = affect how the archive functions in any way. This is > strictly an aestheti= c undertaking. > > We are hoping to redesign the site in conjunction with = a new section to the > site: a gallery for members to share and comment on = Silmarillion-related > artwork. We've always tried to welcome artists to ou= r group, but they have > been left in the cold much of the time, without a = place to share their work > on our website aside from participating in spec= ial projects. We hope that a > gallery will begin to remedy this. > > As p= art of the opening of the gallery, we will be featuring an Artist of the > = Quarter. The Artist of the Quarter will have their work featured as part of= > the banner on our website, where currently we have the group logo. This = will > be the single graphic on our main pages. > > As my comods and I beg= in knuckling in for some serious discussion and > planning for the redesign= , we want very much to hear what you all want to > see on the new site desi= gn. After all, you all are the ones who use the site > regularly to post yo= ur work and enjoy the work of others. We want the site > to be something mo= st everyone finds easy and pleasant to use. > > If there is anything about= the appearance or organization of the current > site that you love, please= do share it, so that we know to keep it! If there > is anything that you d= islike or find difficult to use, we also want to hear > from you. If you ha= ve preferences or peeves in general where websites are > concerned, feel fr= ee to share them. Whether you visit the site once a month, > once a year, o= r every day, we want to hear from you! We are a small > community, so even = a single voice has the power to sway the decisions we > make. > > We welco= me feedback on this list, and I've started an LJ thread for comments > as w= ell: > > http://community.livejournal.com/silwritersguild/190374.html > >= Or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. > > Thank y= ou and best regards, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://th= emidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3341 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57547 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2011 21:27:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2011 21:27:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pw0-f47.google.com) (209.85.160.47) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2011 21:27:16 -0000 X-Received: by pwj9 with SMTP id 9so1076687pwj.20 for ; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 14:27:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.142.9.28 with SMTP id 28mr96055wfi.399.1302125235033; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 14:27:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.165.18 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 14:27:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 17:27:14 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502b01716577c04a046a871 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Site Redesign and Goals for the Future X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=UQXIwrEgPFJtirCmKVjeGDEczQZx6FhYVHVAG4jz3_EpkfjnKLDs X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00504502b01716577c04a046a871 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Steel! There is not currently a Dreamwidth community for the SWG, but we moderator-types have talked about setting one up. Everyone was either in favor or neutral on the issue, so it's something we're definitely ready to pursue. The primary obstacle has been finding the time to set it up with my schedule the way it is right now! :) Given the LJ issues, I'll bump getting this done up higher on my to-do list. I still have some passports to finish for B2MeM, but after that, I'll work on getting a DW comm set up. (Also, I was planning to contact DW to see if they were still willing to make good on their promise to offer free accounts for anyone coming over with a group, for any SWG members who might be interested in DW but not enough to buy a paid account right now.) Dawn On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:26 PM, surgeon_ruth wrote: > > > *de-lurks briefly* > > This is a semi-related question for you modly types: I know about the LJ > comm, but is there one on Dreamwidth? LJ's been down more than it's been up > for the last several days, so I was wondering if there was an alternate > LJ-ish community - and if not, if there's any thought about creating one? > > *slinks back into lurkerdom* > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00504502b01716577c04a046a871 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Steel!

There is not currently a Dreamwidth community for the SWG= , but we moderator-types have talked about setting one up. Everyone was eit= her in favor or neutral on the issue, so it's something we're defin= itely ready to pursue. The primary obstacle has been finding the time to se= t it up with my schedule the way it is right now! :)

Given the LJ i= ssues, I'll bump getting this done up higher on my to-do list. I still = have some passports to finish for B2MeM, but after that, I'll work on g= etting a DW comm set up. (Also, I was planning to contact DW to see if they= were still willing to make good on their promise to offer free accounts fo= r anyone coming over with a group, for any SWG members who might be interes= ted in DW but not enough to buy a paid account right now.)

Dawn
=
On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:26 PM, surgeon_rut= h <surgsteel@gm= ail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
=

*de-lurks briefly*

This is a semi-related question for you m= odly types: I know about the LJ comm, but is there one on Dreamwidth? LJ= 9;s been down more than it's been up for the last several days, so I wa= s wondering if there was an alternate LJ-ish community - and if not, if the= re's any thought about creating one?

*slinks back into lurker= dom*


--=
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org
--00504502b01716577c04a046a871-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3342 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53338 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2011 00:44:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2011 00:44:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm13-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (98.139.91.244) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2011 00:44:23 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.91.69] by nm13.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2011 00:44:23 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.91.3] by tm9.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2011 00:44:23 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1003.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2011 00:44:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 469003.43478.bm@omp1003.mail.sp2.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 61260 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2011 00:44:23 -0000 Message-ID: <337214.61026.qm@web46009.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Dj61OucVM1lb4OWHjRgFipPsfSsrXLLV19f9Ey4JfHVbFXU oONCJHKJ5p_F2R_vGTx4cXhenMHVdzuuWB.8eYqGKFWxlJxe6VnIUSd2BihH XADZUS7pT5RkLOz4Ud5NKC0aYxjpsLrUxc_yUue7wN7cwX8XuVf0SaGBkj1. d2HujYqYjR3ystJGQTl4luNM0S8YQ5WVM.kC255jIPton4aN6th5M9Ibbyv3 _IN1W4Ie4TZYGHIqF5FzFnq4WNlkKVAtglkzEqKV86nE76SB_utlVEPX3f2H 5Kg6HYTIy.jxCzOfUmheWgOaqPoVRnFE2CCa_KqiOhZ6EcSq33_XvFVDFikn 0iFRJjCSoJ1mhmwGLQyBXA6RkXFE- X-Received: from [201.230.72.27] by web46009.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Apr 2011 17:44:23 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/12.0.2 YahooMailWebService/0.8.109.295617 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 17:44:23 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-614510017-1302223463=:61026" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silver Trails Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Site Redesign and Goals for the Future X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=1Jx2k0ScaN7ui_-73HCVpTgwMHhL1WWYhNO9karTo8CA7DQes0xlNQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails --0-614510017-1302223463=:61026 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! =C2=A0 I am afraid the problems with LJ can become chronic, as it was a= political attack. =C2=A0 CC --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subjec= t: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Site Redesign and Goals for the Futur= e To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 6, 20= 11, 9:27 PM =C2=A0 Hi, Steel! There is not currently a Dreamwidth co= mmunity for the SWG, but we moderator-types have talked about setting one u= p. Everyone was either in favor or neutral on the issue, so it's something = we're definitely ready to pursue. The primary obstacle has been finding the= time to set it up with my schedule the way it is right now! :) Given the = LJ issues, I'll bump getting this done up higher on my to-do list. I still = have some passports to finish for B2MeM, but after that, I'll work on getti= ng a DW comm set up. (Also, I was planning to contact DW to see if they wer= e still willing to make good on their promise to offer free accounts for an= yone coming over with a group, for any SWG members who might be interested = in DW but not enough to buy a paid account right now.) Dawn On Wed, Apr = 6, 2011 at 12:26 PM, surgeon_ruth wrote: =C2=A0 = *de-lurks briefly* This is a semi-related question for you modly types: I= know about the LJ comm, but is there one on Dreamwidth? LJ's been down mor= e than it's been up for the last several days, so I was wondering if there = was an alternate LJ-ish community - and if not, if there's any thought abou= t creating one? *slinks back into lurkerdom* -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org --0-614510017-1302223463=:61026 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It is interesting though, how derivative writing/storytelling is a much &= quot;worse offense" than derivative artwork. Illustrate a scene from a= popular novel (derivative work!) and share it with everyone. Write a missi= ng scene? Better hide it under lock and key! ;)
Hi!
 
I am af= raid the problems with LJ can become chronic, as it was a political attack.=
 
CC

--- On Wed, 4/6/11, Dawn Felagu= nd wrote:

From: Dawn Felagund
Subject:= Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Site Redesign and Goals for the Future<= BR>To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 6= , 2011, 9:27 PM

surgst= eel@gmail.com> wrote:
 
<= DIV>*de-lurks briefly*

This is a semi-related question for you modly= types: I know about the LJ comm, but is there one on Dreamwidth? LJ's been= down more than it's been up for the last several days, so I was wondering = if there was an alternate LJ-ish community - and if not, if there's any tho= ught about creating one?

*slinks back into lurkerdom*

--
~oOo~
Dawn = Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org

--0-614510017-1302223463=:61026-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3343 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85265 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2011 02:25:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Apr 2011 02:25:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pw0-f46.google.com) (209.85.160.46) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2011 02:25:26 -0000 X-Received: by pwi15 with SMTP id 15so2227689pwi.19 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:25:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.143.21.38 with SMTP id y38mr5991302wfi.342.1302575126440; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:25:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.165.18 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 22:25:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502cb1fb469c104a0af67ee X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Dreamwidth Community X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=V7o-hwLQUpO9ruihhQCw44J1vpJ8o4rLb5WkiegDWrQVVklIUrjP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00504502cb1fb469c104a0af67ee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, As discussed earlier this week, I have set up a community for us on Dreamwidth: http://silwritersguild.dreamwidth.org/profile It will function exactly the same as our LiveJournal community with respect to guidelines, posting permissions, et cetera. I still have some (primarily aesthetic) work to do, as well as updating and checking the links on our profile, but those of you with DW accounts are welcome to join and start using the comm in the meantime. :) Please do pass the word on to members with DW accounts who may not be on this mailing list. (I will eventually put up notices in all the other official places as well.) I will be contacting the DW staff sometime soon to see if they're still offering free accounts to newcomers who come over to DW as part of a community. If they are, then I will post information here for anyone who is interested in a free DW account. If they are not (quite possible, given what I expect is a massive influx of newcomers since the latest LJ mess), we will try to get invite codes for SWG members who would be interested in joining the DW comm. I'll keep everyone posted regarding this. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00504502cb1fb469c104a0af67ee Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

As discussed earlier this week, I have set up a community f= or us on Dreamwidth:

http://silwritersguild.dreamwidth.org/profile

It will= function exactly the same as our LiveJournal community with respect to gui= delines, posting permissions, et cetera. I still have some (primarily aesth= etic) work to do, as well as updating and checking the links on our profile= , but those of you with DW accounts are welcome to join and start using the= comm in the meantime. :) Please do pass the word on to members with DW acc= ounts who may not be on this mailing list. (I will eventually put up notice= s in all the other official places as well.)

I will be contacting t= he DW staff sometime soon to see if they're still offering free account= s to newcomers who come over to DW as part of a community. If they are, the= n I will post information here for anyone who is interested in a free DW ac= count. If they are not (quite possible, given what I expect is a massive in= flux of newcomers since the latest LJ mess), we will try to get invite code= s for SWG members who would be interested in joining the DW comm. I'll = keep everyone posted regarding this.

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= /a>
http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org
--00504502cb1fb469c104a0af67ee-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3344 Return-Path: X-Sender: surgsteel@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55230 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2011 10:31:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Apr 2011 10:31:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2011 10:31:41 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Apr 2011 10:31:41 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Apr 2011 10:31:41 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 10:31:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "surgeon_ruth" Subject: Re: Dreamwidth Community X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=328688752; y=gyqHL1L6s2S5icsz0aO4XHuEde8-gQNCMB4iiqORfJVFtiyfyhgE X-Yahoo-Profile: surgeon_ruth I have roughly a dozen invite codes if anyone wants one - just need an e-ma= il addy to send it to. --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Da= wn Felagund wrote: > > Hi, all, > > As discussed earlie= r this week, I have set up a community for us on > Dreamwidth: > > http://= silwritersguild.dreamwidth.org/profile > > It will function exactly the sa= me as our LiveJournal community with respect > to guidelines, posting permi= ssions, et cetera. I still have some (primarily > aesthetic) work to do, as= well as updating and checking the links on our > profile, but those of you= with DW accounts are welcome to join and start > using the comm in the mea= ntime. :) Please do pass the word on to members > with DW accounts who may = not be on this mailing list. (I will eventually put > up notices in all the= other official places as well.) > > I will be contacting the DW staff som= etime soon to see if they're still > offering free accounts to newcomers wh= o come over to DW as part of a > community. If they are, then I will post i= nformation here for anyone who is > interested in a free DW account. If the= y are not (quite possible, given what > I expect is a massive influx of new= comers since the latest LJ mess), we will > try to get invite codes for SWG= members who would be interested in joining > the DW comm. I'll keep everyo= ne posted regarding this. > > Best regards, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > D= awn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3345 Return-Path: X-Sender: nerdanel.istarnie@googlemail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89999 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2011 10:38:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Apr 2011 10:38:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f173.google.com) (209.85.216.173) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2011 10:38:27 -0000 X-Received: by mail-qy0-f173.google.com with SMTP id 36so2425167qyk.11 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 03:38:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.229.127.105 with SMTP id f41mr5084783qcs.15.1302604706191; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 03:38:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.8.210 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 03:38:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:38:06 +0200 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cdf9c3acb9ffb04a0b64a3f From: Elleth Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Dreamwidth Community X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=401407033; y=FTXwNrIu8T82Vdyp4mPp1qvFxYCdlPBYvDPIXRN_qpa_3cjgWQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ladyelleth --000e0cdf9c3acb9ffb04a0b64a3f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I also have a number of invite codes for the taking, if more are needed. Ju= st let me know. Other than that, Dreamwidth has the dw_codesharing (http://= dw-codesharing.dreamwidth.org)/profilecommunity for precisely that purpose. Looking forward to seeing m= ore of SWG on Dreamwidth. Elleth On 12 April 2011 12:31, surgeon_ruth wrote: > > > I have roughly a dozen invite codes if an= yone wants one - just need an > e-mail addy to send it to. > > > --- In Sil= marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund > w= rote: > > > > Hi, all, > > > > As discussed earlier this week, I have set u= p a community for us on > > Dreamwidth: > > > > http://silwritersguild.drea= mwidth.org/profile > > > > It will function exactly the same as our LiveJou= rnal community with > respect > > to guidelines, posting permissions, et ce= tera. I still have some > (primarily > > aesthetic) work to do, as well as = updating and checking the links on our > > profile, but those of you with D= W accounts are welcome to join and start > > using the comm in the meantime= . :) Please do pass the word on to members > > with DW accounts who may not= be on this mailing list. (I will eventually > put > > up notices in all th= e other official places as well.) > > > > I will be contacting the DW staff= sometime soon to see if they're still > > offering free accounts to newcom= ers who come over to DW as part of a > > community. If they are, then I wil= l post information here for anyone who > is > > interested in a free DW acc= ount. If they are not (quite possible, given > what > > I expect is a massi= ve influx of newcomers since the latest LJ mess), we > will > > try to get = invite codes for SWG members who would be interested in > joining > > the D= W comm. I'll keep everyone posted regarding this. > > > > Best regards, > >= > > Dawn > > > > -- > > ~oOo~ > > Dawn Felagund > > http://themidhavens.ne= t/heretic_loremaster/ > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > > > > = > --000e0cdf9c3acb9ffb04a0b64a3f Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I also have a number of invite codes for the taking, if more are needed. Ju= st let me know. Other than that, Dreamwidth has the dw_codesharing (http://dw-codesharing.dr= eamwidth.org)/profile community for precisely that purpose.

L= ooking forward to seeing more of=A0 SWG on Dreamwidth.

Elleth
On 12 April 2011 12:31, surgeon_ruth <surgsteel@gmail.com= > wrote:
= =A0

I have = roughly a dozen invite codes if anyone wants one - just need an e-mail addy= to send it to.



--- In = SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
> As discussed= earlier this week, I have set up a community for us on
> Dreamwidth= :
>
> http://silwritersguild.dreamwidth.org/profile
= >
> It will function exactly the same as our LiveJournal commun= ity with respect
> to guidelines, posting permissions, et cetera. I = still have some (primarily
> aesthetic) work to do, as well as updat= ing and checking the links on our
> profile, but those of you with D= W accounts are welcome to join and start
> using the comm in the mea= ntime. :) Please do pass the word on to members
> with DW accounts w= ho may not be on this mailing list. (I will eventually put
> up noti= ces in all the other official places as well.)
>
> I will be= contacting the DW staff sometime soon to see if they're still
>= offering free accounts to newcomers who come over to DW as part of a
&= gt; community. If they are, then I will post information here for anyone wh= o is
> interested in a free DW account. If they are not (quite possi= ble, given what
> I expect is a massive influx of newcomers since th= e latest LJ mess), we will
> try to get invite codes for SWG members= who would be interested in joining
> the DW comm. I'll keep eve= ryone posted regarding this.
>
> Best regards,
>
= > Dawn
>
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
= > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmari= llionwritersguild.org
>

=
=

--000e0cdf9c3acb9ffb04a0b64a3f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3346 Return-Path: X-Sender: dlnevins@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63561 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2011 12:47:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m14.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Apr 2011 12:47:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.63) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2011 12:47:51 -0000 X-Received: from [209.86.224.28] (helo=mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Q9d0Z-0007Xn-QY for SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:47:51 -0400 X-Received: from 72.213.3.96 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:47:50 -0400 Message-ID: <18958543.1302612471472.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:47:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 604f3363e534b2781aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec798244da47f2e0c5e5df631f131c718ed7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c From: Diana Nevins Reply-To: Diana Nevins Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Dreamwidth Community X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110407230; y=2ZasH_Z-5TTM1vMzcyNmFrXq_wZxDT2nfFCSAn5jDcltvbD1H3O1 X-Yahoo-Profile: ithilwen2001 I also have quite a few invite codes, if anyone wants one. Ithilwen -----= Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund Sent: Apr 11, 2011 9:25 PM To= : SWG Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Dreamwidth Community Hi, all, = As discussed earlier this week, I have set up a community for us on Dreamw= idth: http://silwritersguild.dreamwidth.org/profile It will function exac= tly the same as our LiveJournal community with respect to guidelines, posti= ng permissions, et cetera. I still have some (primarily aesthetic) work to = do, as well as updating and checking the links on our profile, but those of= you with DW accounts are welcome to join and start using the comm in the m= eantime. :) Please do pass the word on to members with DW accounts who may = not be on this mailing list. (I will eventually put up notices in all the o= ther official places as well.) I will be contacting the DW staff sometime= soon to see if they're still offering free accounts to newcomers who come = over to DW as part of a community. If they are, then I will post informatio= n here for anyone who is interested in a free DW account. If they are not (= quite possible, given what I expect is a massive influx of newcomers since = the latest LJ mess), we will try to get invite codes for SWG members who wo= uld be interested in joining the DW comm. I'll keep everyone posted regardi= ng this. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens= .net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3347 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75165 invoked from network); 2 May 2011 13:25:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m17.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2011 13:25:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f176.google.com) (209.85.161.176) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2011 13:25:49 -0000 X-Received: by gxk7 with SMTP id 7so2936766gxk.7 for ; Mon, 02 May 2011 06:25:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.125.226 with SMTP id z62mr1063132yhh.5.1304342748771; Mon, 02 May 2011 06:25:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.236.105.194 with HTTP; Mon, 2 May 2011 06:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:25:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf303bfbfe34b59e04a24af6f2 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: May 2011 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xwplM8Wk1LtXYP8cMz5VflqmZ9naH2krkC87OsTjirSSpoN9A6R0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --20cf303bfbfe34b59e04a24af6f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I have just uploaded our new newsletter to the SWG website. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/may2011.php This month, we have made several important announcements that I encourage our members to check out, if they have not already. We have big plans this summer to redesign the look of our website and open an art gallery, and we invite member input to ensure the new design best meets everyone's needs. In addition, we have established a community on Dreamwidth for sharing writing, art, and discussion related to *The Silmarillion,* and we continue to solicit member input for our Library of Tirion project. This month's character biography, authored by Oshun, is about a minor character--so minor he doesn't even appear in the Silm itself!--who nonetheless presents fodder for exploration in story, poetry, and art. Arakano (Argon), a fourth child of Fingolfin, was added to the story late in Tolkien's life. He never finished adding Arakano and couldn't even make up his mind on basic facts, but Oshun presents what we *do* know about Arakano and how he represents what we see of the Noldor generally in the story. As always, Oshun's essay is information and thought-provoking and well worth a read! And, of course, we have a list of stories added to the archive last month, a new Challenge Revisited and Quote of the Month, and news from groups beyond the SWG. As always, my sincerest thanks to our newsletter contributors--Oshun, Rhapsody, and Angelica--who make this great resource happen every month! :) Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --20cf303bfbfe34b59e04a24af6f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I have just uploaded our new newsletter to the SWG website.=

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/may2011.php

This = month, we have made several important announcements that I encourage our me= mbers to check out, if they have not already. We have big plans this summer= to redesign the look of our website and open an art gallery, and we invite= member input to ensure the new design best meets everyone's needs. In = addition, we have established a community on Dreamwidth for sharing writing= , art, and discussion related to The Silmarillion, and we continue t= o solicit member input for our Library of Tirion project.

This mont= h's character biography, authored by Oshun, is about a minor character-= -so minor he doesn't even appear in the Silm itself!--who nonetheless p= resents fodder for exploration in story, poetry, and art. Arakano (Argon), = a fourth child of Fingolfin, was added to the story late in Tolkien's l= ife. He never finished adding Arakano and couldn't even make up his min= d on basic facts, but Oshun presents what we do know about Arakano a= nd how he represents what we see of the Noldor generally in the story. As a= lways, Oshun's essay is information and thought-provoking and well wort= h a read!

And, of course, we have a list of stories added to the ar= chive last month, a new Challenge Revisited and Quote of the Month, and new= s from groups beyond the SWG. As always, my sincerest thanks to our newslet= ter contributors--Oshun, Rhapsody, and Angelica--who make this great resour= ce happen every month! :)

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org
--20cf303bfbfe34b59e04a24af6f2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3348 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66069 invoked from network); 30 May 2011 13:04:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m16.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2011 13:04:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pz0-f52.google.com) (209.85.210.52) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2011 13:04:52 -0000 X-Received: by pzk35 with SMTP id 35so1766827pzk.25 for ; Mon, 30 May 2011 06:04:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.20.138 with SMTP id n10mr1915405pbe.280.1306760692256; Mon, 30 May 2011 06:04:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.56.71 with HTTP; Mon, 30 May 2011 06:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 09:04:52 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5215ae9de510804a47deebf From: Dawn Felagund Subject: 2011 MEFAs: So It Begins ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=kT8hjCVtZRV21dPjeeIBt_U3aQPup12PxTFUFp3Pp5TjJj_j4yYg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec5215ae9de510804a47deebf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Forwarded on behalf of Marta, the MEFA admin ... --- The 2011 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards are about to begin. We will be accepting nominations from June 1- June 30 - just a few days away! We welcome all nominations of Tolkien-related fanfic, poetry, and fan-essays. Self-nominations are also welcome. 1. What kind of pieces are eligible? The MEFAs is a fanfic awards-program that accepts most types of fanfic. Slash and het are both welcome, as are stories about all of Tolkien's characters (both Silm-based and LOTR-based and other-Tolkien-book-based). We accept poetry, essays, fics (WIPs and finished), drabbles - if it's in written form and connects with Tolkien's works it is probably eligible! We also accept fics about the historical JRR Tolkien, but do not accept actorfic unless it is about one of the actors somehow interacting with a Tolkien character (say, Legolas has a chat with Orlando Bloom). We do have the following requirements: --- pieces must be competing for the first time OR be a WIP when they competed that are now complete --- pieces must be based on JRR Tolkien's writings or an adaptation of the same --- pieces must fit within our General, Teen, or Mature ratings; see http://mefawards.fancrone.net/index.php?page=FAQratingsguide --- pieces must be at a URL where anyone can read it without Check out the FAQs on eligibility at --- authors must have an email address that they check regularly where we can contact them Authors must fill out a form about their piece where they will be asked to describe their piece. So you need to be able to answer several questions about your piece, including choosing three categories where it will compete. If your piece cannot be described on these terms, it is not eligible. Also, if you do not reply to emails or begin work on your form within two weeks of being nominated, we may withdraw the nomination and allow the nominator to put forward another email address. So it's important you at least let us know you have been nominated, even if you can't begin work on your forms immediately. ****************************** *** 2. How to Nominate a Piece Nominations are accepted from members of our website. Membership is free and open to the public, but we do have a few steps we ask you to take, though. This is mostly to make sure you don't already have an account with us - each account can only nominate twenty pieces, and it's important to make sure that the same person doesn't get to nominate more than other people. To that end, you have to do two things: --- (1) join the MEFAwards Yahoo group, which we use to send out important announcements --- (2) fill out a short questionnaire you are sent and return it to usersATmefawardsDOTorg. Our volunteer in charge of accounts will set you up at our website in a day or two, and you will be sent your username and password automatically by our website. THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM YOUR YAHOO ACCOUNT INFORMATION, and changing one will not affect the other. If, after 72 hours, you have not received your log in information to our website, email me at supportATmefawardsDOTorg and I will track down what the snag is for you. Once you have this information you will be able to log into our voting website. Starting on June 1 you can log in at http://www.mefawards.org/ . (Please note, this is a different address than in previous years.) From there, just click the "Nominate a Piece" link and fill out the form. ************************************** 3. What to Do Now? There are still three days before the MEFAs, and there are a few ways you can get involved. (1) First, get your account ready. --- If you aren't a member already, join up by subscribing to the MEFAwards Yahoo group and sending in your questionnaire. --- If you don't know your password, you can go ahead and request it at http://mefawards.fancrone.net/index.php. (This is our test site, but the password will be the same at our new site.) --- If you're not sure whether you have an account or not, email me at supportATmefawardsDOTorg and I'll help you. (2) Next, start thinking about what you want to nominate. Choose twenty of your favorite stories by other people, or stories you've written that you would like to compete. Go ahead and collect the URL, the story title, the author's name and the author's email account - you'll need all four to nominate it. Previously nominated stories are generally ineligible. (Exception: if it was a WIP when it competed before but is now finished.) Check out a list of previously nominated stories at http://archive.mefawards.org/ (3) If you know for sure you want to nominate a story, go ahead and drop the author a line. While not strictly required, it *is* helpful because the author knows to expect an email from us (so less chance it will get deleted by accident). This is especially useful if they're new to the MEFAs. (4) On a similar note, tell your email program not to treat emails coming from @mefawards.org as spam. Most email providers today have a way to "trust" certain domains. We really don't spam, but sometimes when you tell people congratulations or start talking about an awards program, the email will think it's spam. Go figure. :^P (5) If you want to get involved as a volunteer, it's not too late. In particular we always welcome promoters. If there's some listserv, website, or other fandom water-cooler where you don't see MEFA announcements and you want to give them the latest MEFA news, then contact me at supportATmefawardsDOTorg. Elen sila lumen omentielvo, Marta (MEFA Admin.) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec5215ae9de510804a47deebf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forwarded on behalf of Marta, the MEFA admin ...

---

The 2011= Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards are about to begin. We will be
acceptin= g nominations from June 1- June 30 - just a few days away! We
welcome a= ll nominations of Tolkien-related fanfic, poetry, and fan-essays.
Self-= nominations are also welcome.

1. What kind of pieces are eligible?=

The MEFAs is a fanfic awards-program that accepts most types of f= anfic.
Slash and het are both welcome, as are stories about all of Tolk= ien's
characters (both Silm-based and LOTR-based and other-Tolkien-= book-based). We
accept poetry, essays, fics (WIPs and finished), drabbl= es - if it's in
written form and connects with Tolkien's works = it is probably eligible! We
also accept fics about the historical JRR T= olkien, but do not accept
actorfic unless it is about one of the actors= somehow interacting with a
Tolkien character (say, Legolas has a chat = with Orlando Bloom).

We do have the following requirements:
--- pieces must be competing for the first time OR be a WIP when they competed that are now complete
--- pieces must be based on JRR Tolkie= n's writings or an adaptation of the
same
--- pieces must fit w= ithin our General, Teen, or Mature ratings; see

= http://mefawards.fancrone.net/index.php?page=3DFAQratingsguide

= --- pieces must be at a URL where anyone can read it without Check out the=
FAQs on eligibility at
--- authors must have an email address that= they check regularly where we
can contact them

Authors must f= ill out a form about their piece where they will be asked to
describe t= heir piece. So you need to be able to answer several questions
about yo= ur piece, including choosing three categories where it will compete.
If= your piece cannot be described on these terms, it is not eligible. Also, if you do not reply to emails or begin work on your form within two week= s of
being nominated, we may withdraw the nomination and allow the nomi= nator to
put forward another email address. So it's important you a= t least let us
know you have been nominated, even if you can't begi= n work on your forms
immediately.

****************************= **
***

2. How to Nominate a Piece

Nominat= ions are accepted from members of our website. Membership is free and
o= pen to the public, but we do have a few steps we ask you to take, though. This is mostly to make sure you don't already have an account with u= s - each
account can only nominate twenty pieces, and it's importan= t to make sure
that the same person doesn't get to nominate more th= an other people.

To that end, you have to do two things:

= --- (1) join the MEFAwards Yahoo group, which we use to send out important<= br> announcements
--- (2) fill out a short questionnaire you are sent a= nd return it to
usersATmefawardsDOTorg.

Our volunteer in charg= e of accounts will set you up at our website in a day
or two, and you w= ill be sent your username and password automatically by our
website. TH= IS IS DIFFERENT FROM YOUR YAHOO ACCOUNT INFORMATION, and changing
one w= ill not affect the other. If, after 72 hours, you have not received
you= r log in information to our website, email me at supportATmefawardsDOTorg and I will track down what the snag is for you.

Once you have t= his information you will be able to log into our voting
website. Starti= ng on June 1 you can log in at =C2=A0http://www.mefawards.org/ .
(Please note, this is= a different address than in previous years.) From
there, just click th= e "Nominate a Piece" link and fill out the form.

*******= *******************************

3. What to Do Now?

There = are still three days before the MEFAs, and there are a few ways you
can= get involved.

=C2=A0(1) First, get your account ready.

-= -- If you aren't a member already, join up by subscribing to the MEFAwa= rds
Yahoo group and sending in your questionnaire.
--- If you don&#= 39;t know your password, you can go ahead and request it at
http://mefawards= .fancrone.net/index.php. (This is our test site, but the
password w= ill be the same at our new site.)
--- If you're not sure whether yo= u have an account or not, email me at
supportATmefawardsDOTorg and I= 9;ll help you.

(2) Next, start thinking about what you want to nom= inate. Choose twenty of
your favorite stories by other people, or stori= es you've written that you
would like to compete. Go ahead and coll= ect the URL, the story title, the
author's name and the author'= s email account - you'll need all four to
nominate it. Previously n= ominated stories are generally ineligible.
(Exception: if it was a WIP = when it competed before but is now finished.)
Check out a list of previ= ously nominated stories at

http://archive.mefawards.org/

(3) If you = know for sure you want to nominate a story, go ahead and drop the
autho= r a line. While not strictly required, it *is* helpful because the
auth= or knows to expect an email from us (so less chance it will get deleted
= by accident). This is especially useful if they're new to the MEFAs.
(4) On a similar note, tell your email program not to treat emails = coming
from @mefawa= rds.org as spam. Most email providers today have a way to
"tru= st" certain domains. We really don't spam, but sometimes when you = tell
people congratulations or start talking about an awards program, t= he email
will think it's spam. Go figure. :^P

(5) If you w= ant to get involved as a volunteer, it's not too late. In
particula= r we always welcome promoters. If there's some listserv, website,
o= r other fandom water-cooler where you don't see MEFA announcements and = you
want to give them the latest MEFA news, then contact me at
supp= ortATmefawardsDOTorg.

Elen sila lumen omentielvo,

Marta (MEFA Admin.)


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felag= und
http://themi= dhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--bcaec5215ae9de510804a47deebf-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3349 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79506 invoked from network); 30 May 2011 19:03:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2011 19:03:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pz0-f42.google.com) (209.85.210.42) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2011 19:03:26 -0000 X-Received: by pzk37 with SMTP id 37so1843932pzk.29 for ; Mon, 30 May 2011 12:03:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.30.137 with SMTP id s9mr1928609pbh.146.1306782205389; Mon, 30 May 2011 12:03:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.56.71 with HTTP; Mon, 30 May 2011 12:03:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 15:03:25 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec520f40326aac304a482f1dc X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Artist Input Needed! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=H2pKgSXaxcot7QuY-FoMbXTgw6v1Of0TuOkZejVus7N9Trs7tO7O X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec520f40326aac304a482f1dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I recently posted about the SWG's big plans for this summer, one of which is setting up an art gallery in addition to the archive. Although we've tried to include Silm artists as much as possible in our events, they've never had a home on the site the way that the writers have with the archive, and we'd like to remedy that. However, the art side of the fandom is untrod territory for my comods and me! :) So that we set up a gallery that meets the needs both of artists and visitors, we are asking for help from the artists in our group as we start planning to set up the gallery. We'll need advice on everything from the best gallery software to revisions to the Site Etiquette/Terms of Service to the features we should include on the gallery. If you're an artist and would like to help out, please contact me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com. You don't need to have any particular experience beyond posting artwork (especially fanart) online. You're not committing to any minimum level of input either; if we pose a question or idea, and you have an opinion on it, you're welcome to share. Artists who aren't SWG members are also welcome, so if you belong to any other groups where you think folks may be interested in this project, please do pass the word along. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec520f40326aac304a482f1dc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I recently posted about the SWG's big plans for this su= mmer, one of which is setting up an art gallery in addition to the archive.= Although we've tried to include Silm artists as much as possible in ou= r events, they've never had a home on the site the way that the writers= have with the archive, and we'd like to remedy that.

However, = the art side of the fandom is untrod territory for my comods and me! :) So = that we set up a gallery that meets the needs both of artists and visitors,= we are asking for help from the artists in our group as we start planning = to set up the gallery. We'll need advice on everything from the best ga= llery software to revisions to the Site Etiquette/Terms of Service to the f= eatures we should include on the gallery.

If you're an artist a= nd would like to help out, please contact me off-list at DawnFelagund AT gm= ail DOT com. You don't need to have any particular experience beyond po= sting artwork (especially fanart) online. You're not committing to any = minimum level of input either; if we pose a question or idea, and you have = an opinion on it, you're welcome to share.

Artists who aren'= ;t SWG members are also welcome, so if you belong to any other groups where= you think folks may be interested in this project, please do pass the word= along.

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~=
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec520f40326aac304a482f1dc-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3350 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15738 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2011 01:14:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2011 01:14:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-px0-f182.google.com) (209.85.212.182) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2011 01:14:34 -0000 X-Received: by pxi20 with SMTP id 20so1034310pxi.27 for ; Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:14:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.14.234 with SMTP id s10mr553585pbc.12.1307063673782; Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:14:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.56.71 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Jun 2011 18:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 21:14:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec520ee1df9815104a4c47926 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: June 2011 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=M6kGGrWQCU27PLY_5e_LRxlCDCJEQlnUnjbb-B7CW1B_y9yX2QSX X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec520ee1df9815104a4c47926 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, Our newsletter for June 2011 is posted on the archive! http://ww= w.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/june2011.php Now that I'm freeeeee= e of school for the year, my comods and I have been stirring up lots t= o keep up busy over the summer, so I encourage everyone to check out the SW= G News for information on our summer challenge, our forthcoming art gallery= , a friendly reminder about image use on the archive, and an invitation to = Dreamwidth. In addition, we have a list of all the stories posted during th= e month of May, new challenges, and announcements from groups beyond the SW= G. Oshun has written a biography of E=C3=B6l for this month's Character of= the Month. Although E=C3=B6l is yet another of Tolkien's "cardboard villai= ns," Aredhel's attraction to him and older texts suggest he had more in com= mon with the Noldor than his hatred of them suggests. His depiction also il= lustrates cultural differences between the Sindar and Noldor. Yet again, Os= hun has put together an insightful and interesting look at a familiar chara= cter--it's well worth a read! Enjoy! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org --bcaec520ee1df9815104a4c47926 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Our newsletter for June 2011 is posted on the archive!
<= br>ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/june2011.php

Now that= I'm freeeeeee of school for the year, my comods a= nd I have been stirring up lots to keep up busy over the summer, so I encou= rage everyone to check out the SWG News for information on our summer chall= enge, our forthcoming art gallery, a friendly reminder about image use on t= he archive, and an invitation to Dreamwidth. In addition, we have a list of= all the stories posted during the month of May, new challenges, and announ= cements from groups beyond the SWG.

Oshun has written a biography o= f E=C3=B6l for this month's Character of the Month. Although E=C3=B6l i= s yet another of Tolkien's "cardboard villains," Aredhel'= s attraction to him and older texts suggest he had more in common with the = Noldor than his hatred of them suggests. His depiction also illustrates cul= tural differences between the Sindar and Noldor. Yet again, Oshun has put t= ogether an insightful and interesting look at a familiar character--it'= s well worth a read!

Enjoy! :)

Dawn

-- =
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org
--bcaec520ee1df9815104a4c47926-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3351 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83466 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2011 12:15:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m15.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2011 12:15:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pz0-f47.google.com) (209.85.210.47) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2011 12:15:10 -0000 X-Received: by pzk36 with SMTP id 36so1893783pzk.20 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 05:15:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.14.74 with SMTP id n10mr1736640pbc.489.1307880908999; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 05:15:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.71.135 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 05:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 08:15:08 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Ardor in August 2011 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=91zhGBNK4ZbuD_3_i-2oW77inDeO39587WRvlqpc5pGUW0huEDLo X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Forwarded on behalf of Kenaz for anyone who might be interested in particip= ating ... Ardor in August 2011 >From the Years of the Trees through the= Fourth Age =E2=80=93 it=E2=80=99s time once again to make your Tolkien FPS= fanfic dreams come true=E2=80=A6 Have you always wanted to read a certain= pairing or scenario, but couldn=E2=80=99t write it yourself? Have it writt= en for you =E2=80=93 specifically and especially for your own sweet self! A= nd share your own fic gift in exchange - That=E2=80=99s right, it=E2=80=99= s time for the The My Slashy Valentine Fic Exchange! brought to you by the = same folks who sponsor the renowned Slashy Santa and Ardor in August Fictio= n Exchanges. This year, the exchange will focus solely on the Elves, Men, = Valar and Maiar of J.R.R. Tolkien's legendarium. Maybe it=E2=80=99s Gildor = and Glorfindel you love, or perhaps Boromir-on-Theodred strikes your fancy.= .. or maybe Manw=C3=AB is your main man =E2=80=93 from the First Age to the= Fourth, from sultry tales of the Silmarillion to romances in the Ring Wars= =E2=80=93 spread the word, recruit your friends and fellow authors, and ha= ve some fun! Critical Dates: Sign-up period:=C2=A0Sunday, June 12 - Sund= ay, June 26 Assignments to be distributed:=C2=A0by July 3 Deadline for firs= t-time participants:=C2=A0August 20, 2011 Deadline for returning participan= ts:=C2=A0August 27, 2011 Archive opens:=C2=A0September 3, 2011 Rules & FAQ= All stories must be a minimum length of 1,200 words, which translates = to roughly 3 full pages in Word. Stories must be complete and in their enti= rety. Submissions must be new and previously unreleased, and written speci= fically for the assignment you receive. If you have defaulted on ANY previ= ous Slashy Santa-sponsored exchanges, you will NOT be permitted to particip= ate in the My Slashy Valentine 2010 exchange. There are=C2=A0NO EXCEPTIONS= =C2=A0to this rule. This may be a disappointment to some of you, but it is = far more disappointing for a hard-working participant who strove to meet th= e deadline to discover they did not receive a story because their writer dr= opped out. Manners are mandatory!! Be kind to your readers, be kind to you= r writer, be kind to your overworked admin. Just as you are required to tur= n in a finished, beta'd story, you are required to acknowledge the person w= ho wrote for you in a timely fashion. If you're going to be out of town whe= n the archive opens, consider making an LJ post to that effect, or alerting= the moderator if you think it's going to be more than 3 or 4 days before y= ou can get in touch with your writer. Even if you *hate* the story you are = given-- and we certainly hope that's not the case!-- common courtesy dictat= es that you should at least say "Thank you for writing this for me." If you= cannot gracefully thank the author who wrote for you, you may be asked to = sit out the next round and contemplate the meaning of the word "Courtesy." = Stories shall not be released to the general fandom on any group, list, or= website=C2=A0until after the archive opens on September 3. After the publi= cation date on this site, feel free to post or archive your work anywhere y= ou would like. Authors may self-load their own submissions here on the Slas= hy Santa LJ community after the publication date on this site if they choos= e. Authors are responsible for=C2=A0posting their own stories=C2=A0to the = Slashy Santa archive on or before the due date at=C2=A0SlashySanta.com. If = you have any questions or difficulties, please email the moderator: slashys= anta@gmail.com PROHIBITIONS / RESTRICTIONS ONLY ELVES, MEN, MAIAR AND VAL= AR=C2=A0are acceptable in the slashed pairing. However, Hobbits, Dwarves, a= nd other creatures may be present in the story as secondary characters. No= fiction involving a=C2=A0minor in a sexual situation, even in flashback, n= o matter how vaguely alluded to, will be permitted. Period. No songfics. No= het pairings as anything other than secondary characters or plots. No best= iality. (Tolkien characters that manifest as cognizant beings such as centa= urs, unicorns, wolves, faeries, etc.=C2=A0are=C2=A0acceptable. If in doubt,= ask us.) No RPS (real person slash) will be accepted. No Mary Sue, Marty S= tu, or self-inserts. FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS Q: Hold on there, what ab= out female characters like Galadriel and Arwen? They were important charact= ers in Tolkien's world! So, you're saying I must ignore them? A: Not at al= l. We all know that Aragorn loved and ultimately married Arwen, but he must= have been pretty lonely all those years of traveling the wilds of Middle-e= arth. After a while, Boromir must have started looking pretty good to him. = ;) Q: I just received my assignment and it fits perfectly into part of a s= eries I've been working on. Can I use it anyway? A: We'd prefer your story= to be original and created solely for your recipient, but so long as your = submission fits the assignment you received, can be read and understood as = a standalone, and it's new and unreleased, then go ahead. Q: I'm not entir= ely sure I want to sign up or I missed the sign-up deadline... can you put = my name down as just a pinch-hitter? A: Absolutely! We're always in need o= f pinch-hitters. Email me and let me know, or reply to this post. Q: How e= xactly does pinch-hitting work? A: If a Pinch-hit is necessary, the assign= ments will be offered up via email to everyone on our pinch-hit list and wi= ll be available on a first come, first served basis. If a pinch-hitter is n= eeded within the last week=C2=A0of the writing period, *ALL* interested pin= ch hitters may claim the request and the minimum word count will be dropped= in the interest of time, in which case a participant may receive two or th= ree short ficlets as opposed to one longer story. Q: I'm a newbie. Why do = I have to turn in my story a week earlier than everyone else? A: It has be= en our unfortunate experience that first-time participants are more likely = to drop out, and often without telling us they've quit. The earlier deadlin= e for new writers allows us time to find pinch-hitters. WE WANT YOU to be a= n active participant! If you're a new writer and you become overwhelmed, do= n't vanish-- talk to us! We will work with you as much as possible so that = you can have a successful fic exchange experience. Q: Yikes! I've been wor= king on my story, but there was a family emergency and I don't think I'll m= ake the deadline. What should I do? A:=C2=A0Let us know!=C2=A0We at Slashy= Santa have families, too, and understand that emergencies sometimes happen= . The sooner you tell us, the easier it will be for us to come to a mutuall= y agreeable solution. Q: Unfortunately, the emergency has turned into some= thing longer term and I won't be able to finish my story after all. A:=C2= =A0Again, please let us know=C2=A0as soon as possible so we can find a pinc= h-hitter for your assignment. Q: I signed up for the previous exchanges, b= ut never turned anything in. Can I still participate? A: No. It simply isn= 't fair to those who met their obligations, or to the person who didn't get= a story. Q: Do I need to have my work beta read? I don't have one! A: Wh= ile we will not strictly enforce the use of a beta, we=C2=A0strongly encour= age it. At the very least, please proof read and run spell- and grammar-che= ck. If you need help finding a beta, let us know and we'll direct you to so= me beta resources. Remember, you're writing a=C2=A0gift=C2=A0for someone, s= o make your story as perfect as it can be. Q: HELP! I received the worst a= ssignment in the world! What were you thinking? I can't write this! A: It = was likely an oversight. Please contact us and we will do what we can to fi= nd another assignment that is more to your taste and ability. If you alread= y confirmed you would accept it, we can't make promises, but we'll do the b= est we can to help. NOTE: In some rare instances, it may not be possible f= or a request to be filled to the requestor's exact specifications. This may= occur if no author is willing to write the elements in the request (some e= xamples are BDSM, fetish, rape, MPREG, or character death). In this case, t= he participant will be asked to revise their request so that we'll be able = to match it. ~ * ~ So, are you ready to sign up? Good! Sign up HERE: http= ://www.slashysanta.com/signup.html -- Slashy Santa Slash - the gift that a= lways fits! http://www.slashysanta.com/eFiction/ -- *=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 *=C2= =A0 *=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 =C2=A0 * )0( *=C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 *= =C2=A0 * Life is a ragged diagonal between duty and desire. http://kenazfi= ction.livejournal.com -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/he= retic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3352 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15037 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2011 13:58:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jun 2011 13:58:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pw0-f53.google.com) (209.85.160.53) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2011 13:58:02 -0000 X-Received: by pwi16 with SMTP id 16so1430658pwi.12 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 06:58:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.37.69 with SMTP id w5mr1131017pbj.422.1308837480946; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 06:58:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.63.129 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jun 2011 06:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 09:58:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec520e9711edc5e04a66179fb From: Dawn Felagund Subject: The Season of Writing Dangerously X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0GXxEgtIVWOiXMR7hb4BEtzfI-0om_6VpNc_-XlrkogF4v5XsIT7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec520e9711edc5e04a66179fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, It's summertime for many of us and wintertime for our members in the South, so it's time for our annual event! Show of virtual hands: How many of you have projects lying around that you keep meaning to finish? Or meaning to * start*? I know that I have stuff that I've been promising to work on for * years* that is too convenient to brush aside whenever Life(tm) takes a nosedive into crazy, which is all too often. This year, we wanted to challenge our writers and artists to dust off one of those never-quite-done projects and pledge to make progress on it this summer/winter. We've called our challenge the Season of Writing Dangerously; however, as we try to do for all of our challenges and events, it's open to any sort of creative work you want to do: writing, artwork, crafts, whatever the muses demand! It's pretty straightforward: You pledge to make a certain amount of progress on a project. The goal is yours to set and can be as modest or ambitious as you like. For the next three months, you work towards your goal. When you make your goal, you'll get a shiny banner to announce your success! Because we know that some of the worst obstacles to getting creative projects finished is 1) making time and 2) finding motivation once you actually have an expanse of free time *to do whatever you want with* (lying in the hammock and reading frequently derails my best intentions to write and paint), then we're also offering any participants who want it the help of a cheerleader. This person will help you stay motivated and on-task. You'll work out with your cheerleader what kind of help you want and how you want to communicate. If you're interested in pledging to work on a project, signups are on our LiveJournal community: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/192313.html With more information on our website as well: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/season-of-writing-dangerously.php We absolutely encourage both participants and non-participants to sign up to encourage their fellow writers and artists as cheerleaders. If you'd like more information on what cheerleading involves or to sign up as a cheerleader, you can find both on our LJ: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/192162.html (If you can't use LJ for whatever reason, please do contact us to sign up! The mods can be reached at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.) Also, I want to point out that we welcome anyone from the Tolkien fandom that wants to participate, not just *Silmarillion* writers, artists, and projects. So that Third Age novel you never finished? That plotbunny with hairy Hobbit-feet nipping at your heels?? Go for it! You also do not need to be an SWG member to participate, so if you know other writers, artists, or groups that may be interested in our project, please do invite them to join us. Here's to a productive Season of Writing Dangerously! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec520e9711edc5e04a66179fb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

It's summertime for many of us and wintertime for our m= embers in the South, so it's time for our annual event! Show of virtual= hands: How many of you have projects lying around that you keep meaning to= finish? Or meaning to start? I know that I have stuff that I've= been promising to work on for years that is too convenient to brush= aside whenever Life(tm) takes a nosedive into crazy, which is all too ofte= n. This year, we wanted to challenge our writers and artists to dust off on= e of those never-quite-done projects and pledge to make progress on it this= summer/winter.

We've called our challenge the Season of Writin= g Dangerously; however, as we try to do for all of our challenges and event= s, it's open to any sort of creative work you want to do: writing, artw= ork, crafts, whatever the muses demand! It's pretty straightforward: Yo= u pledge to make a certain amount of progress on a project. The goal is you= rs to set and can be as modest or ambitious as you like. For the next three= months, you work towards your goal. When you make your goal, you'll ge= t a shiny banner to announce your success!

Because we know that som= e of the worst obstacles to getting creative projects finished is 1) making= time and 2) finding motivation once you actually have an expanse of free t= ime to do whatever you want with (lying in the hammock and reading f= requently derails my best intentions to write and paint), then we're al= so offering any participants who want it the help of a cheerleader. This pe= rson will help you stay motivated and on-task. You'll work out with you= r cheerleader what kind of help you want and how you want to communicate.
If you're interested in pledging to work on a project, signups a= re on our LiveJournal community:

http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/192313.h= tml

With more information on our website as well:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/season-of-writing-dangerously.= php

We absolutely encourage both participants and non-participa= nts to sign up to encourage their fellow writers and artists as cheerleader= s. If you'd like more information on what cheerleading involves or to s= ign up as a cheerleader, you can find both on our LJ:

http://silwritersguild.li= vejournal.com/192162.html

(If you can't use LJ for whatever = reason, please do contact us to sign up! The mods can be reached at moderat= or AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.)

Also, I want to point out = that we welcome anyone from the Tolkien fandom that wants to participate, n= ot just Silmarillion writers, artists, and projects. So that Third A= ge novel you never finished? That plotbunny with hairy Hobbit-feet nipping = at your heels?? Go for it! You also do not need to be an SWG member to par= ticipate, so if you know other writers, artists, or groups that may be inte= rested in our project, please do invite them to join us.

Here's= to a productive Season of Writing Dangerously! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
= http://www.silmarillion= writersguild.org
--bcaec520e9711edc5e04a66179fb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3353 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81977 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2011 17:27:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jun 2011 17:27:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pw0-f53.google.com) (209.85.160.53) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2011 17:27:56 -0000 X-Received: by pwi16 with SMTP id 16so2665874pwi.40 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 10:27:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.14.74 with SMTP id n10mr2081617pbc.489.1309022876172; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 10:27:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.63.129 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 10:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 13:27:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec520ee6f89828b04a68ca33e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:1 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Season of Writing Dangerously Update! and Temporary Contact Change X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0vcb_LZ-jpiCGxpNLZKrvhRqKusOBl6IEXsWtiSB9W8utWO9vmLW X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec520ee6f89828b04a68ca33e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, We've had lots of signups for the Season of Writing Dangerously, both for authors/artists and cheerleaders. I wanted to give a quick update about how the next few weeks will work, as well as a temporary change in how to get in touch with the group mods. I am leaving for vacation on Monday, 27 June. I will be home on Saturday, 2 July. The cabin we've rented supposedly has Internet access, but experience tells me that mountains + cabin doesn't always equal functioning Internet. :) So while I'm expecting to be able to check in periodically, I can't make any guarantees. Normally, I have no issue with SWG-related emails coming to my personal email account. However, while I'm away, if you have anything urgent that needs to be handled, please use the moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org address. This will reach not only my email address but my comods as well. In the next week or so, the group mods will be contacting authors and artists participating in the Season of Writing Dangerously who have requested a cheerleader. We'll need some more information from these participants in order to match them with a cheerleader, so look for an LJ message (or email, if you're not on LJ) from us in the next few days! It is my hope that we can have authors/artists matched with a cheerleader during the first week of July. That means there's still plenty of time to sign up if you'd like to pledge to make progress on a Tolkien-related creative project. Remember that all Tolkien-related projects are eligible for the Season of Writing Dangerously, even those that aren't based on *The Silmarillion*. Sign up as an author or artist here: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/192313.html Sign up as a cheerleader here: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/192162.html May the muses smile upon you! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec520ee6f89828b04a68ca33e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

We've had lots of signups for the Season of Writing Dan= gerously, both for authors/artists and cheerleaders. I wanted to give a qui= ck update about how the next few weeks will work, as well as a temporary ch= ange in how to get in touch with the group mods.

I am leaving for v= acation on Monday, 27 June. I will be home on Saturday, 2 July. The cabin w= e've rented supposedly has Internet access, but experience tells me tha= t mountains + cabin doesn't always equal functioning Internet. :) So wh= ile I'm expecting to be able to check in periodically, I can't make= any guarantees. Normally, I have no issue with SWG-related emails coming t= o my personal email account. However, while I'm away, if you have anyth= ing urgent that needs to be handled, please use the moderator AT silmarilli= onwritersguild DOT org address. This will reach not only my email address b= ut my comods as well.

In the next week or so, the group mods will b= e contacting authors and artists participating in the Season of Writing Dan= gerously who have requested a cheerleader. We'll need some more informa= tion from these participants in order to match them with a cheerleader, so = look for an LJ message (or email, if you're not on LJ) from us in the n= ext few days!

It is my hope that we can have authors/artists matche= d with a cheerleader during the first week of July. That means there's = still plenty of time to sign up if you'd like to pledge to make progres= s on a Tolkien-related creative project. Remember that all Tolkien-related = projects are eligible for the Season of Writing Dangerously, even those tha= t aren't based on The Silmarillion.

Sign up as an author= or artist here: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/192313.html
Sign up as a= cheerleader here: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/192162.html

May t= he muses smile upon you! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
= --bcaec520ee6f89828b04a68ca33e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3354 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66919 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2011 03:46:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2011 03:46:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pz0-f46.google.com) (209.85.210.46) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2011 03:46:39 -0000 X-Received: by pzk9 with SMTP id 9so2936290pzk.5 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:46:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.15.36 with SMTP id u4mr2465790pbc.20.1309059998378; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:46:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.63.129 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 23:46:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec52161ed316b4b04a6954817 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: 2011 MEFA Nominations End on June 30 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YBstZC8-eOO-_KTyYCyZMNrjzyZfAxRK5bXKMLtj_k6V-zDZ6WYT X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec52161ed316b4b04a6954817 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I'm passing along an announcement from Marta, the MEFA admin, for anyone who's interested ... see below! :) Dawn --- Just a quick reminder that the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards are accepting nominations now through June 30. We welcome all fandom members to join our group and nominate their favorite Tolkien-centric fanfic, essays, poetry, and drabbles. To nominate you must have an account at our website, www.mefawards.org/. You can get such an account by joining the Yahoo group [MEFAwards] and answering a questionnaire that is sent to you. It does take a few days to get those accounts set up, so please get us that questionnaire ASAP. If you are not registered before the end of the nominations period you cannot nominate stories in this year's MEFAs, though you are still welcome to compete in other capacities like voting for the stories nominated by others. --- All nominations MUST be submitted by 11:59 PM GMT on June 30. --- All authors MUST finish the forms about their stories 11:59 PM GMT on July 6. Marta -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec52161ed316b4b04a6954817 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I'm passing along an announcement from Marta, the = MEFA admin, for anyone who's interested ... see below! :)

Dawn
---

Just a quick reminder that the Middle-earth Fanfiction A= wards are
accepting nominations now through June 30. We welcome all fan= dom
members to join our group and nominate their favorite Tolkien-centr= ic
fanfic, essays, poetry, and drabbles.

To nominate you must = have an account at our website,
www.mefawards.org/. You can get such an account by joi= ning the Yahoo
group [MEFAwards] and answering a questionnaire that is = sent to you.
It does take a few days to get those accounts set up, so p= lease get us
that questionnaire ASAP. If you are not registered before = the end of
the nominations period you cannot nominate stories in this y= ear's
MEFAs, though you are still welcome to compete in other capac= ities
like voting for the stories nominated by others.

--- All= nominations MUST be submitted by 11:59 PM GMT on June 30.
--- All auth= ors MUST finish the forms about their stories 11:59 PM GMT
on July 6.
Marta

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/he= retic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--bcaec52161ed316b4b04a6954817-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3355 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38019 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2011 22:55:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m16.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2011 22:55:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pv0-f175.google.com) (74.125.83.175) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2011 22:55:19 -0000 X-Received: by pvf24 with SMTP id 24so5106241pvf.34 for ; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:55:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.34.34 with SMTP id w2mr5414839pbi.27.1309647318681; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:55:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.49.135 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Jul 2011 15:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 18:55:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec52163df3609da04a71e07a3 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: LotRFF Sold X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=OUHUABEn7KVLCd-Vqd7hOWi1UzsqrUOCqYMHCiL2uui2LjoM4KDZ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec52163df3609da04a71e07a3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I know most everyone has probably heard of this by now, but I wanted to get the word out on the SWG mailing list as well for those who may not have heard. The LotR Fan Fiction site has been sold to an individual who hopes to turn a profit on the site. Esteliel does a brilliant job of sleuthing out information about the site's new owner and his intentions here: http://esteliel.dreamwidth.org/407809.html The Organization for Transformative Works (OTW) also has a post, far less thorough than Esteliel's, but a good summary of what's happened and its implications: http://otw-news.livejournal.com/126815.html Given that one of my core philosophies since founding the SWG archive has been to provide an ad-free home for *Silmarillion*-based fanworks, it's probably pretty clear where I stand on this particular case. I have been approached by advertisers who want to put ads up on the SWG site, including my own sister, who is a professional web designer. I've turned them all away for the reasons that Esteliel articulates so eloquently in her post. Furthermore, the behavior of the new site owner doesn't give me much reason to feel confident that he cares at all for anything beyond making a buck on what he knows to be a high-traffic site. Requests for account deletions have so far been ignored, and I've heard from one site moderator who was as blindsided as the site's members about this change of ownership. Ignoring members and leaving a site's leadership team in the dark about major site decisions, imho, do not bode well for establishing a supportive and engaging community for writers and readers. I know a lot of folks who posted primarily with LotRFF feel uprooted now, and they have my sympathies. I'd like to remind everyone that the SWG's doors are always open to *Silmarillion*-based work, and we interpret "* Silmarillion*-based" much more broadly than many people initially realize. We have a whole FAQ on this ( http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/about/faq/faq3.php), but in short, if a piece of writing heavily features a time period, character, event, or place from *The Silmarillion,* or pulls from a source related to *The Silmarillion,* we count it as "Silmfic" and welcome it on our site, even if it pulls heavily also from sources beyond *The Silmarillion*. That means that we have stories set in the present day, stories with Hobbits and Aragorn, and stories that span multiple ages and draw from LotR*,* and we welcome all of them. I also moderate/webmaster at a Tolkien genfic archive called Many Paths to Tread. MPTT is a friendly place that welcomes works up to an R-rating and of all genres. To those who need a home for their LotR- and TH-based gen stories, you might want to consider MPTT. http://www.lotrgfic.com/ The OTW's Archive of Our Own (AO3) is a very inclusive multi-fandom archive that welcomes content from all fandoms, genres, and ratings. The OTW is already offering help to LotRFF authors who want to move their content onto AO3. I only have one lonely invitation, but I'm happy to offer it to anyone who wants it. http://archiveofourown.org/ If anyone else has ideas on archives to try for LotRFF authors who want to move their content, please do feel free to chime in and let us know! Remember that promotions for Tolkien-based sites and events are welcome on our mailing list. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec52163df3609da04a71e07a3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I know most everyone has probably heard of this by now, but= I wanted to get the word out on the SWG mailing list as well for those who= may not have heard. The LotR Fan Fiction site has been sold to an individu= al who hopes to turn a profit on the site. Esteliel does a brilliant job of= sleuthing out information about the site's new owner and his intention= s here:

http= ://esteliel.dreamwidth.org/407809.html

The Organization for Tran= sformative Works (OTW) also has a post, far less thorough than Esteliel'= ;s, but a good summary of what's happened and its implications:
http://otw-news.li= vejournal.com/126815.html

Given that one of my core philosophies= since founding the SWG archive has been to provide an ad-free home for = Silmarillion-based fanworks, it's probably pretty clear where I sta= nd on this particular case. I have been approached by advertisers who want = to put ads up on the SWG site, including my own sister, who is a profession= al web designer. I've turned them all away for the reasons that Estelie= l articulates so eloquently in her post. Furthermore, the behavior of the n= ew site owner doesn't give me much reason to feel confident that he car= es at all for anything beyond making a buck on what he knows to be a high-t= raffic site. Requests for account deletions have so far been ignored, and I= 've heard from one site moderator who was as blindsided as the site'= ;s members about this change of ownership. Ignoring members and leaving a s= ite's leadership team in the dark about major site decisions, imho, do = not bode well for establishing a supportive and engaging community for writ= ers and readers.

I know a lot of folks who posted primarily with Lo= tRFF feel uprooted now, and they have my sympathies. I'd like to remind= everyone that the SWG's doors are always open to Silmarillion-b= ased work, and we interpret "Silmarillion-based" much more= broadly than many people initially realize. We have a whole FAQ on this (<= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/about/faq/faq3.php">http:= //www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/about/faq/faq3.php), but in short, i= f a piece of writing heavily features a time period, character, event, or p= lace from The Silmarillion, or pulls from a source related to The= Silmarillion, we count it as "Silmfic" and welcome it on our= site, even if it pulls heavily also from sources beyond The Silmarillio= n. That means that we have stories set in the present day, stories with= Hobbits and Aragorn, and stories that span multiple ages and draw from Lot= R, and we welcome all of them.

I also moderate/webmaster at = a Tolkien genfic archive called Many Paths to Tread. MPTT is a friendly pla= ce that welcomes works up to an R-rating and of all genres. To those who ne= ed a home for their LotR- and TH-based gen stories, you might want to consi= der MPTT.

http://www.lotrgfic.= com/

The OTW's Archive of Our Own (AO3) is a very inclusive = multi-fandom archive that welcomes content from all fandoms, genres, and ra= tings. The OTW is already offering help to LotRFF authors who want to move = their content onto AO3. I only have one lonely invitation, but I'm happ= y to offer it to anyone who wants it.

http://archiveofourown.org/

If anyone else has ideas = on archives to try for LotRFF authors who want to move their content, pleas= e do feel free to chime in and let us know! Remember that promotions for To= lkien-based sites and events are welcome on our mailing list.

Best = regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens= .net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--bcaec52163df3609da04a71e07a3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3356 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73756 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2011 06:16:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2011 06:16:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ew0-f43.google.com) (209.85.215.43) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2011 06:16:28 -0000 X-Received: by ewy20 with SMTP id 20so2169285ewy.16 for ; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 23:16:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.14.17.83 with SMTP id i59mr1411401eei.207.1309673786421; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 23:16:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.14.127.141 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Jul 2011 23:16:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 02:16:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e65876decfb31004a72430ed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] LotRFF Sold X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=hWtNyaiULPahVVe_hb-FaVoGeCPE1wAT3YCn4RRlyXR3p_yS6cxcsw X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva --0016e65876decfb31004a72430ed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi everyone, Thanks to Dawn for bringing this up. It's an important topic worth talking about. I wanted to say a word about LOTRFF and the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards, since many people here (but certainly not all!) also participate in those awards. I hope that's not too off-topic. If you decide to leave LOTRFF and you gave us a LOTRFF link as your story's URL, I'm happy to help you change that. Just email me your name, story title, story ID # (if you know it), and the new URL to supportATmefawardsDOTorg. I prefer to receive this info as a spreadsheet, if possible. If you just want to remove the LOTRFF link and you gave us a back-up link, I can do that as well. I can also change the links in our archive (a record of past nominations). Just let me know what you need help with. The MEFAs don't take positions on any archive, for or against. So if you want to keep linking to LOTRFF or just don't particularly care, you will get no argument from me. I mainly wanted to let SWG members know what to do if they *did* want to change things. Now back to your regularly-scheduled program. :-) Marta On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > ** > > > Hi, all, > > I know most everyone has probably heard of this by now, but I wanted to get > the word out on the SWG mailing list as well for those who may not have > heard. The LotR Fan Fiction site has been sold to an individual who hopes to > turn a profit on the site. Esteliel does a brilliant job of sleuthing out > information about the site's new owner and his intentions here: > > http://esteliel.dreamwidth.org/407809.html > > The Organization for Transformative Works (OTW) also has a post, far less > thorough than Esteliel's, but a good summary of what's happened and its > implications: > > http://otw-news.livejournal.com/126815.html > [snip] > --0016e65876decfb31004a72430ed Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone,

Thanks to Dawn for bringing this up. It'= ;s an important topic worth talking about.

I wante= d to say a word about LOTRFF and the Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards, since = many people here (but certainly not all!) also participate in those awards.= I hope that's not too off-topic. If you decide to leave LOTRFF =A0and = you gave us a =A0LOTRFF link as your story's URL, I'm happy to help= you change that. Just email me your name, story title, story ID # (if you = know it), and the new URL to supportATmefawardsDOTorg. I prefer to receive = this info as a spreadsheet, if possible.=A0

If yo= u just want to remove the LOTRFF link and you gave us a back-up link, I can= do that as well. I can also change the links in our archive (a record of p= ast nominations). Just let me know what you need help with.

=
The MEFAs don't take positions on any archive, for or agains= t. So if you want to keep linking to LOTRFF or just don't particularly = care, you will get no argument from me. I mainly wanted to let SWG members = know what to do if they *did* want to change things.=A0

Now back to your regularly-scheduled program. :-)

Marta

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 6:55 = PM, Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
<= span>=A0

Hi, all,=

I know most everyone has probably heard of this by now, but I wante= d to get the word out on the SWG mailing list as well for those who may not= have heard. The LotR Fan Fiction site has been sold to an individual who h= opes to turn a profit on the site. Esteliel does a brilliant job of sleuthi= ng out information about the site's new owner and his intentions here:<= br>
http://esteliel.dreamwidth.org/407809.html

The Organizati= on for Transformative Works (OTW) also has a post, far less thorough than E= steliel's, but a good summary of what's happened and its implicatio= ns:

http://otw-news.livejournal.com/126815.html
[snip]

--0016e65876decfb31004a72430ed-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3357 Return-Path: X-Sender: IsisRising08@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44699 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2011 16:57:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.106) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2011 16:57:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da02.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.144) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2011 16:57:32 -0000 X-Received: from mtaomg-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.137]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p63GvUsH001602 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 12:57:30 -0400 X-Received: from core-mda002b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mda002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.45.5]) by mtaomg-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 1105EE000087 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 12:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <48393.3889aa5d.3b41f979@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 12:57:29 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_48393.3889aa5d.3b41f979_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132 X-AOL-IP: 24.118.193.221 x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:429453312:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33894e109f7a782f From: isisrising08@aol.com Subject: Re: LotRFF Sold X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=395515053; y=eX4-zx1CmDVOaQkEr0AOuUD3XE3B20Qc9SQQN1WkmVGUXaaD X-Yahoo-Profile: live2bead --part1_48393.3889aa5d.3b41f979_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dawn asked for anyone else who knew of a good archive for authors wanting to leave LOTRFF to chime in, so I shall do so. Esteliel has set up an excellent new archive for All Genres, All Ratings, All Pairings. I invite all authors in the Tolkien Fandom to join us and post your stories to Faeie, a new and brilliant archive that is author friendly. The more of you who post and read, the more we can have a nurturing community of creative peoples. I don't think I can include her banner here, but here is the website addy: _http://efiction.esteliel.de/_ (http://efiction.esteliel.de/) - Erulisse (one L) --part1_48393.3889aa5d.3b41f979_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dawn asked for anyone else who knew of a g= ood archive for authors wanting to leave LOTRFF to chime in, so I shall do = so. 
 
Esteliel has set up an excellent ne= w archive for All Genres, All Ratings, All Pairings.  I in= vite all authors in the Tolkien Fandom to join us and post your stories to = Faeie, a new and brilliant archive that is author friendly. The more of you= who post and read, the more we can have a nurturing community of creative = peoples.  
= I don't think I can include her banner here, but here is the website addy:&= nbsp;
 
&n= bsp;
- Erulisse (one L)
 
--part1_48393.3889aa5d.3b41f979_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3358 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55608 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2011 19:50:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2011 19:50:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pv0-f178.google.com) (74.125.83.178) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2011 19:50:24 -0000 X-Received: by pvg7 with SMTP id 7so5195284pvg.37 for ; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 12:50:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.65.131 with SMTP id x3mr6016068pbs.429.1309722624485; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 12:50:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.49.135 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 12:50:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <48393.3889aa5d.3b41f979@aol.com> References: <48393.3889aa5d.3b41f979@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 15:50:24 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec544ec60c969b504a72f8f9e From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: LotRFF Sold X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-ryySY34XKzNayo5SDdVK2_vBiXGnsxdBqR79j17A04G4Gg-i9Ej X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec544ec60c969b504a72f8f9e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks, Erulisse! I'm off to wander by and check out her site now! :) Dawn On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 12:57 PM, wrote: > ** > > > > Esteliel has set up an excellent new archive for All Genres, All Ratings, > All Pairings. I invite all authors in the Tolkien Fandom to join us and > post your stories to Faeie, a new and brilliant archive that is author > friendly. The more of you who post and read, the more we can have a > nurturing community of creative peoples. > > > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec544ec60c969b504a72f8f9e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Erulisse! I'm off to wander by and check out her site now! :)
Dawn

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 12:57 P= M, <isisrisin= g08@aol.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =

=C2=A0
Esteliel= has set up an excellent new archive for All Genres, All Ratings, All Pairi= ngs.=C2=A0 I invite all authors in the Tolkie= n Fandom to join us and post your stories to Faeie, a new and brilliant arc= hive that is author friendly. The more of you who post and read, the more w= e can have a nurturing community of creative peoples.=C2=A0=C2=A0
<= /span>=C2=A0


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaste= r/
http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org
--bcaec544ec60c969b504a72f8f9e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3359 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66432 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2011 17:55:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m10.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2011 17:55:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pz0-f52.google.com) (209.85.210.52) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2011 17:55:57 -0000 X-Received: by pzd13 with SMTP id 13so17539437pzd.25 for ; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 10:55:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.7.234 with SMTP id m10mr7334852pba.94.1309802157403; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 10:55:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.49.135 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 10:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 13:55:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5215bb9516de304a7421443 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: July 2011 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=d4wmpRPj3TFQxFjP3n3ujBnp-8tFhM0v599BYRsL9uHDqNbZG8Y6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec5215bb9516de304a7421443 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Due to my time off at the beginning of the month, the newsletter is a bit late this month, but it's finally here! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/july2011.php We have lots of news from within the SWG this month: updates about Season of Writing Dangerously, a new reference essay by Esteliel in the Reference Library, a call for help with the Library of Tirion, and a minor change to the Site Etiquette/ToS to fix an inconsistency between that and our ratings policy. We also have a reminder of what counts as Silmfic for the purposes of our archive--and it's almost always more inclusive than you may think! We also have announcements and challenges from groups beyond the SWG. Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec5215bb9516de304a7421443 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Due to my time off at the beginning of the month, the newsletter is a bit l= ate this month, but it's finally here!

http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org/news/july2011.php

We have lots of news from within th= e SWG this month: updates about Season of Writing Dangerously, a new refere= nce essay by Esteliel in the Reference Library, a call for help with the Li= brary of Tirion, and a minor change to the Site Etiquette/ToS to fix an inc= onsistency between that and our ratings policy. We also have a reminder of = what counts as Silmfic for the purposes of our archive--and it's almost= always more inclusive than you may think!

We also have announcemen= ts and challenges from groups beyond the SWG.

Enjoy!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/=
http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org
--bcaec5215bb9516de304a7421443-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3360 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63818 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2011 14:20:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.107) by m15.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Aug 2011 14:20:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f50.google.com) (209.85.216.50) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2011 14:20:07 -0000 X-Received: by qwe5 with SMTP id 5so3706962qwe.9 for ; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 07:20:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.66.222 with SMTP id o30mr4226553qci.189.1312294806815; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 07:20:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.229.68.137 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Aug 2011 07:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 10:20:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e650688ecd03e604a98671f4 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: August 2011 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=iy2Fy8ecKrk6w9Byt4KfTvhHki3NEykyI2A9ArOMZVObelqadB9J X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016e650688ecd03e604a98671f4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings, all, The August 2011 newsletter is up on our site: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/august2011.php A reminder that, as in years past, August is Akallabeth in August! During this month, we encourage our members to step out of their First Age comfort zones and try their hand at writing Second Age stories. In celebration of the writers who regularly work within the Second Age, we have included a list of their stories in the newsletter and encourage readers to check out a few! Lastly, two years ago, we ran an Akallabeth in August event, and our group's talented authors and artists put together a collection of stories spanning the entire Second Age. If you find your Second Age inspiration a little thin, some of the incredible pieces included in this project might entice the muses! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/ In keeping with our Akallabeth in August theme, this month's character biography, written by Marta, is about Sauron, with a focus on his actions in the Second Age. As Marta points out, at first glance, Sauron presents the impression of a convenient villain lacking the depth of some of Tolkien's other bad boys, but delving deeper into his history in the Second Age reveals a character of greater complexity than a mere evil overlord. Marta's biography is comprehensive, thought-provoking, and well worth a read! And, of course, we have news from within the SWG and from groups beyond our own, as well as a list of the stories posted to the archive in July and our monthly challenges. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/august2011.php Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016e650688ecd03e604a98671f4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all,

The August 2011 newsletter is up on our site:
ht= tp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/august2011.php

A remi= nder that, as in years past, August is Akallabeth in August! During this mo= nth, we encourage our members to step out of their First Age comfort zones = and try their hand at writing Second Age stories. In celebration of the wri= ters who regularly work within the Second Age, we have included a list of t= heir stories in the newsletter and encourage readers to check out a few! La= stly, two years ago, we ran an Akallabeth in August event, and our group= 9;s talented authors and artists put together a collection of stories spann= ing the entire Second Age. If you find your Second Age inspiration a little= thin, some of the incredible pieces included in this project might entice = the muses!

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-aug= ust/

In keeping with our Akallabeth in August theme, this month&= #39;s character biography, written by Marta, is about Sauron, with a focus = on his actions in the Second Age. As Marta points out, at first glance, Sau= ron presents the impression of a convenient villain lacking the depth of so= me of Tolkien's other bad boys, but delving deeper into his history in = the Second Age reveals a character of greater complexity than a mere evil o= verlord. Marta's biography is comprehensive, thought-provoking, and wel= l worth a read!

And, of course, we have news from within the SWG an= d from groups beyond our own, as well as a list of the stories posted to th= e archive in July and our monthly challenges.

http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org/news/august2011.php

Enjoy!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= br>http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org
--0016e650688ecd03e604a98671f4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3361 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2767 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2011 17:34:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m14.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2011 17:34:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f43.google.com) (209.85.216.43) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2011 17:34:56 -0000 X-Received: by qwf6 with SMTP id 6so4100610qwf.30 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:34:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.47.213 with SMTP id o21mr4560972qcf.278.1314552895987; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:34:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.229.223.193 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 13:34:55 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163641866f6760be04ab9432c2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Help Wanted! Season of Writing Dangerously Banners Needed X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=p-LyKs-VYcg3R6wbPOn5bmiLiZO9wGpzojDBzR0leUt8SWkQI1E9 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00163641866f6760be04ab9432c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Believe it or not, we are in the final third of the Season of Writing Dangerously. Time flies! I hope it has been a productive time for participants (or that the realization that the season is almost past will spur those of you who, like me, work best under time pressure. ;) We need help creating banners and icons for participants, winners, and cheerleaders for the Season of Writing Dangerously. Anyone who wants to do so is welcome to help out. --We need banners for winners, participants, and cheerleaders. The banner should make clear which it is for, i.e., "Season of Writing Dangerously Participant," "Season of Writing Dangerously Winner," or "Season of Writing Dangerously Cheerleader." You can change the wording, if you prefer, but please make sure that "Season of Writing Dangerously" or "SOWD" appears somewhere. --There are no size restrictions on banners but remember that icons used on LJ/DW must be 100x100 pixels or smaller. --Please save your file as a JPG, GIF, or PNG. If possible, use a save-for-web feature to keep the file sizes small. --Please avoid sexual nudity, blood and gore, and extreme violence. --*Important!! *If you use artwork, photographs, or other images that do not belong to you, they must be in the public domain or licensed for non-commercial use with modification or you must have permission from the copyright holder to use this images. We cannot allow copyright notices, watermarks, or other marks of ownership on the banners, so if this is a condition of using the artwork, we will not be able to accept the banner. --*Also important!!* In making banners for this project, you are granting us the right to use your banner, as well as any artwork on the banner. Your banner will be freely available for SOWD participants to use on their personal journals, blogs, profiles, and webpages. We will not remove your banner, nor we will make changes to it at a later date. In other words, if you worry that you'll be grimacing in three-year's time at what you then regard as poor-quality work, give strong consideration as to whether you're willing to share it because we will not change or remove it. --Although we are a Silmarillion group and most participants are working on Silmarillion-inspired projects, we do have participants working in all eras of Tolkien's world, so banners based on LotR and TH are welcome as well! Most importantly, have fun and be creative! If you have questions, please comment on this post or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. You can also send finished banners to that address. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00163641866f6760be04ab9432c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Believe it or not, we are in the final third of the Season = of Writing Dangerously. Time flies! I hope it has been a productive time fo= r participants (or that the realization that the season is almost past will= spur those of you who, like me, work best under time pressure. ;)

= We need help creating banners and icons for participants, winners, and chee= rleaders for the Season of Writing Dangerously. Anyone who wants to do so i= s welcome to help out.=C2=A0

--We need banners for winners, particip= ants, and cheerleaders. The banner should make clear which it is for, i.e.,= "Season of Writing Dangerously Participant," "Season of Wri= ting Dangerously Winner," or "Season of Writing Dangerously Cheer= leader." You can change the wording, if you prefer, but please make su= re that "Season of Writing Dangerously" or "SOWD" appea= rs somewhere.

--There are no size restrictions on banners but remem= ber that icons used on LJ/DW must be 100x100 pixels or smaller.

--Pl= ease save your file as a JPG, GIF, or PNG. If possible, use a save-for-web = feature to keep the file sizes small.

--Please avoid sexual nudity,= blood and gore, and extreme violence.

--Important!!=C2=A0If you use artwork, = photographs, or other images that do not belong to you, they=C2=A0must=C2= =A0be in the public domain=C2=A0or=C2=A0licensed for non-commercial use wit= h modification=C2=A0or=C2=A0you must have permission from the copyright hol= der to use this images. We cannot allow copyright notices, watermarks, or o= ther marks of ownership on the banners, so if this is a condition of using = the artwork, we will not be able to accept the banner.

--Also important!!=C2= =A0In making banners for this project, you are granting us the right to use= your banner, as well as any artwork on the banner. Your banner will be fre= ely available for SOWD participants to use on their personal journals, blog= s, profiles, and webpages. We will not remove your banner, nor we will make= changes to it at a later date. In other words, if you worry that you'l= l be grimacing in three-year's time at what you then regard as poor-qua= lity work, give strong consideration as to whether you're willing to sh= are it because we will not change or remove it.

--Although we are a= =C2=A0Silmarillion=C2=A0group and most participants are working on=C2=A0Sil= marillion-inspired projects, we do have participants working in all eras of= Tolkien's world, so banners based on LotR and TH are welcome as well! = Most importantly, have fun and be creative!

If you have questions, = please comment on this post or email us at=C2=A0moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. You can= also send finished banners to that address.

Best regards,

D= awn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
= http://www.silmarillion= writersguild.org
--00163641866f6760be04ab9432c2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3362 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23738 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2011 18:40:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m9.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2011 18:40:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f41.google.com) (209.85.216.41) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2011 18:40:00 -0000 X-Received: by qwa26 with SMTP id 26so2623002qwa.14 for ; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.205.169 with SMTP id fq41mr1747744qcb.119.1315075199553; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 11:39:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.229.211.10 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Sep 2011 11:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 14:39:59 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502eaae1f507204ac0dcebd X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: September Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=eS900wZfonjdABm9nwv0UfYRVeejMapD3jy9JCLoUiz2FihAm3Cw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --00504502eaae1f507204ac0dcebd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings, all! This month's newsletter is a bit delayed with my apologies--between hurricanes and starting back to school, Real Life (tm) stood between me and my time to put the pieces together! As always, sincerest thank yous go to Oshun, Angelica, and Rhapsody, who write the content! The new newsletter is here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/september2011.php In site news, we have some updates on the Season of Writing Dangerously. We continue to seek banner-makers willing to help us create rewards for participants, winners, and cheerleaders for this event. Finally, we left off two of Keiliss's stories from last month's Akallabeth in August list--apologies to Kei! Please go check out her always-incredible work. Oshun has written this month's biography on Ecthelion, whose popularity with fans belies the few mentions he receives in the text. As one of Tolkien's oldest characters--he appears in the earliest version of *The Silmarillion*--Oshun dug deep to find all of the information she could on him and create another fine biography for our References section. As always, we have a list of August's new stories, current challenges, and news from beyond the SWG--including a new Tolkien podcast and a call for betas and artists for a Big Bang challenge, as well as announcements from challenges and contests. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/september2011.php Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --00504502eaae1f507204ac0dcebd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, all!

This month's newsletter is a bit del= ayed with my apologies--between hurricanes and starting back to school, Rea= l Life (tm) stood between me and my time to put the pieces together! As alw= ays, sincerest thank yous go to Oshun, Angelica, and Rhapsody, who write th= e content!

The new newsletter is here:
=

In site news, we have some updates on the = Season of Writing Dangerously. We continue to seek banner-makers willing to= help us create rewards for participants, winners, and cheerleaders for thi= s event. Finally, we left off two of Keiliss's stories from last month&= #39;s Akallabeth in August list--apologies to Kei! Please go check out her = always-incredible work.

Oshun has written this mo= nth's biography on Ecthelion, whose popularity with fans belies the few= mentions he receives in the text. As one of Tolkien's oldest character= s--he appears in the earliest version of The Silmarillion--Oshun dug= deep to find all of the information she could on him and create another fi= ne biography for our References section.

As alway= s, we have a list of August's new stories, current challenges, and news= from beyond the SWG--including a new Tolkien podcast and a call for betas = and artists for a Big Bang challenge, as well as announcements from challen= ges and contests.


Enjoy!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Daw= n Felagund
http:= //themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--00504502eaae1f507204ac0dcebd-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3363 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58836 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2011 15:58:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2011 15:58:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f182.google.com) (209.85.216.182) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2011 15:58:43 -0000 X-Received: by qyk4 with SMTP id 4so5882311qyk.13 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 08:58:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.248.139 with SMTP id mg11mr4370771qcb.13.1316966322053; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 08:58:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.229.217.83 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 08:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 11:58:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f6d0decea48c04adc61d87 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Season of Writing Dangerously Banners Available X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MVaxGQrL5TgnkGlx-YXOw_WWHcREGz5WnJoxau9a9rcZn-Msg8dY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001485f6d0decea48c04adc61d87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The Season of Writing Dangerously ended this weekend. Many thanks to all of our participants and cheerleaders, and special congrats to those of you who made your goal! It was an exciting summer, seeing so many writers and artists hard at work on their projects. :) Banners and icons are now available for SoWD participants, cheerleaders, and winners. You can find them on the SoWD page on our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/season-of-writing-dangerously.php#banners Enjoy! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001485f6d0decea48c04adc61d87 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The Season of Writing Dangerously ended this we= ekend. Many thanks to all of our participants and cheerleaders, and special= congrats to those of you who made your goal! It was an exciting summer, se= eing so many writers and artists hard at work on their projects. :)
<= div>
Banners and icons are now available for SoWD participant= s, cheerleaders, and winners. You can find them on the SoWD page on our web= site:

Enjoy! :)

--001485f6d0decea48c04adc61d87-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3364 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10519 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2011 18:47:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m15.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2011 18:47:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f48.google.com) (209.85.216.48) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2011 18:47:20 -0000 X-Received: by qadb14 with SMTP id b14so805411qad.35 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:47:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.212.131 with SMTP id gs3mr496181qab.125.1317408439379; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:47:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.229.217.83 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 14:47:19 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf300fb1f90da70604ae2d0efd X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Yahoo! Groups Downtime X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=USnLmgofRMF7zAxtYArCPC1CqyS9Wr30WX9FkwYQhc7TmDwe1Mf- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --20cf300fb1f90da70604ae2d0efd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, As indicated in the forwarded message below, Yahoo! Groups will be down on Monday for four hours in evening (Pacific time). All the best, Dawn ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Yahoo! Groups Team Date: Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:13 PM Subject: [moderatorcentral] Yahoo! Groups Planned Maintenance To: moderatorcentral@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups will be unavailable for 4 hours from Monday, October 3rd starting 8:30 pm PT to Tuesday, October 4th 12:30am PT, due to planned maintenance. If there is any change to this schedule, we will update the information here. Thanks, Yahoo! Groups Team -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --20cf300fb1f90da70604ae2d0efd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

As indicated in the forwarded message below, Yahoo! Groups = will be down on Monday for four hours in evening (Pacific time).

All= the best,

Dawn

---------- Forward= ed message ----------
From: Yahoo! Groups= Team <= y_groups_team@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:13 P= M
Subject: [moderatorcentral] Yahoo! Groups Planned Maintenance
To: = moderatorcentral@yahoog= roups.com
<= div>

Yahoo! Groups will be unavailable f= or 4 hours from Monday, October 3rd starting 8:30 pm PT to Tuesday, October= 4th 12:30am PT, due to planned maintenance. If there is any change to this= schedule, we will update the information here.

Thanks,
Yahoo= ! Groups Team


-- ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org=
--20cf300fb1f90da70604ae2d0efd-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3365 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78310 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2011 22:30:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m11.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2011 22:30:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f54.google.com) (209.85.216.54) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2011 22:30:34 -0000 X-Received: by qadz30 with SMTP id z30so1514930qad.13 for ; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 15:30:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.101.36 with SMTP id a36mr10680462qco.127.1317594633434; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 15:30:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.229.217.83 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 15:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 18:30:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ee01e1576cb04ae58680e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: October 2011 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=qGn5o-69qfL5HD1mkta3bH4_lpEBWDF74M3HbLBKUQj8FKt1w_si X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016364ee01e1576cb04ae58680e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The October edition of our monthly newsletter has been posted! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/october2011.php In addition to news from within and beyond the SWG, this month's newsletter includes a brand-new challenge, as well as a revisited challenge and a quote for the month. Catch up on the stories you might have missed this month with the monthly listing of archive updates. Oshun has once again crafted an exceptional character biography for the newsletter. This month's biography about Orome takes inspiration from the season, looking at how Orome's character parallels with similar figures that appear in world mythology, particularly that of Britain and northern Europe. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/october2011.php Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016364ee01e1576cb04ae58680e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The October edition of our monthly newsletter h= as been posted!


In addition to news = from within and beyond the SWG, this month's newsletter includes a bran= d-new challenge, as well as a revisited challenge and a quote for the month= . Catch up on the stories you might have missed this month with the monthly= listing of archive updates.

Oshun has once again= crafted an exceptional character biography for the newsletter. This month&= #39;s biography about Orome takes inspiration from the season, looking at h= ow Orome's character parallels with similar figures that appear in worl= d mythology, particularly that of Britain and northern Europe.
<= br>


--0016364ee01e1576cb04ae58680e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3366 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17228 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2011 14:37:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m14.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2011 14:37:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f182.google.com) (209.85.216.182) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2011 14:37:14 -0000 X-Received: by qyg14 with SMTP id 14so1567980qyg.6 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 07:37:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.219.209 with SMTP id hv17mr813009qcb.127.1318775833314; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 07:37:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.229.217.81 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 07:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 10:37:13 -0400 Message-ID: To: LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016362844fa1547a704af6b6d96 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: If You Use Internet Explorer 9 ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=C3jrdMdJeTREv0uiEvzBcsp4N8DKgKDVB7ssD1VBTdb2vBBLtuOq X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --0016362844fa1547a704af6b6d96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I've had this issue crop up three times now in fairly close succession, which tells me it's time to put out a general message about it, since more folks will likely be switching to Internet Explorer 9, and I'd like to save unnecessary frustration for them, if I can. Several users have reported serious problems using Internet Explorer 9 with eFiction sites. (Both SWG and MPTT use eFiction software.) They are unable to add stories or leave comments on stories. If you use IE 9 (or plan on upgrading to IE 9 sometime in the future) and experience problems using the archive, please turn on compatibility mode. Then the site should run fine. If you don't know how to do that, Microsoft has a help page: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/why-do-some-webpages-look-incorrect-in-internet-explorer-9 Of course, if you run into *any* problems at all while using the archive, please don't hesitate to contact me at this address. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --0016362844fa1547a704af6b6d96 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I've had this issue crop up three times now= in fairly close succession, which tells me it's time to put out a gene= ral message about it, since more folks will likely be switching to Internet= Explorer 9, and I'd like to save unnecessary frustration for them, if = I can.

Several users have reported serious proble= ms using Internet Explorer 9 with eFiction sites. (Both SWG and MPTT use eF= iction software.) They are unable to add stories or leave comments on stori= es.

If you use IE 9 (or plan on upgrading to IE 9= sometime in the future) and experience problems using the archive, please = turn on compatibility mode. Then the site should run fine.

If you don't know how to do that, Microsoft has a help page:<= /div>

<= font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"arial, sans-serif">
Of course= , if you run into any=C2=A0problems at all while using the archive, = please don't hesitate to contact me at this address.
=
All the = best,

--0016362844fa1547a704af6b6d96-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3367 Return-Path: X-Sender: erfan.starled@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21819 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2011 18:28:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m13.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2011 18:28:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm16-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.212.253) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2011 18:28:25 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.215.141] by nm16.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2011 18:28:24 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.212.244] by tm12.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2011 18:28:24 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1053.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2011 18:28:24 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 208698.81751.bm@omp1053.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 12823 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Oct 2011 18:28:24 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dYWsQRQVM1nGDXLHPQRcMCy4mXSWC9XBgczi_BHZTGcwBbd 4_OUyrucA0LG8AJ7ZWGzv0AusvTRMrTmPiMTyPAxa0FM.tNScPxOylDUDdfF 6a.r7vy9jUY9eadfyTugOs1x1QKicxX1jFHjg7FpCChIiA2KnAyaW3ZudpWp H6z6TqNxavrC8ob7lT1wXMvPMYuvhxIvvXcFJ6vG1pDnqP4ShRcpCq0roYxa FF00.A_kaG38Q0G1i32lxCWtE1Z88NJg2W7lZEZzC3bk3tyDNOPmYdVeTG4J 3CsSRzcRHQP_skSV5wRyYUXqdQrYjCOP3t58m0WJuEjGcuERBENYZI5yRjct 178XQHEyr8HcvZUFyvzX.VesLDaMAXLohrFKd3EFcYK1qc7UuF_f1qfXX4ji NZSa6OEort.oJPRskKCFZs40wk_IwlOzCBlxwp3rgGUVtmufVKyn3Pv12tki Uk8Tl27wOqgQ_QlYk1fujKmOXs4g9D51K52YUWBPCZyyEo7uOK3b1TAUK73C 2qwKjjhSDSTfFVqOJFZTS41.1hTRw3EcywtOxALadHFlqUHKXE0TstlmRf8P G14Dyp1VVjZgxbVURyD5oyM88WdvPwIyd8tmFbyKZ3TWTfZGO7nQvecGOuyL zzlZbQxgo0UvzRlo_hF41zUhyQ.M8lKwkJ8nqf.juZkOY2UMAPtykc42J1CM 6Y5yWr_W38R.EmBrTgas.leX.nUw0HTn06sCQ0uY7V08oCbbqOg_PGpUWtpj 9fTM6OdG6HiTUZisloGIOr8I3DhzywgD.sbmjjC12.4xhtyjMr1pC8wBl4.u 0zNPk3QW6PNL2zQacQQNu3_i.aZSdc3t0KWaN3nPLQkVzaxuJh1t2XU02.H8 XIdBxJGFEsBWgx99jTbVVbBFh0CGmvgjlUT.dJsD5SWEdchIWY7FT0c.aYfl Jrw5gKvmYiIFeTXg1stFsUEmH0C19mvztIL47hR5f19_jfh_LH1rBXLakWJA op58raeQOLPfCK1Fp8yqSUEjKjFih.q1qZb.SBokwoso5lM5b6Xk5ktwN7HP HJuzQB2rJUvpCctTeuOJ5ReHjWbsvVx8bhbLic5M1K06EPreY8_CUs0_9RWm xTDo2tmMFJkBLgWHEknpolbGtukpjCaj55vSxqciYhfvfBh4hO2GHsG_Tki9 2.PjC2SMni80GErrvz10qpIUDbvXVQ2k2UYSKlK1hN7hT3n.cUt_JUcEsdLh uWDYpuRSyT1QYXe070C7zzleuO2TB6cT_KfQbS85v80mpb8fc6fjLf5WTvnV phxEBy7bkvQ3B__PfqvBmjXYVBPiDgURB76sG8LDS.iDktCo5KrrGBF._wxz m4Q72wnTPW8OCHmFi4IR091d99UPe9rI0a9UO3kTpxJKtvQNB3v5iMWgy8gO qusUNwTKP.CBiNtZ.ruajMn1tNJj7CKH5cGiJymUoMMos0q0tQ7SWoHe_wn1 Enzm0OpxAV2DE_iieBbXZCQoVdp.htRHPbNmHYY9a94vrzBIp3K2C7.2ACfG PCJQEGIU_j80gh2Oxwnq1BWWs3QzIYkRG8wq8W9d8qTYlbBJFIpWAzyN52QB qJSjPutQ7Im3tVEVuo7msvDev..I9cPbiDVxEOkaQ9FyJL5GlQVrMDgACd5g 8IEjBuW87jD4O1SW0eps7S0VL_c6V7pD7dlQPHBYhgWCv3Y8kywAWmkBznox ss.ea9RudLZNe4nnN6Jkn8HKKgCpwrtB55GIyLu5fIid8J3KRiznDFLjUFRq QgIDBTbooIk0TG7dzoB6gmuueYeIu.9th8WwhEheFcTHLOHnfgU0wz.erabw bhhoKKdL1OrneSyEzvwNc5Ny0eX.YiHIFqBA3zpTZbL2kPytCEidoyf4RTlh HBcR6a44ISBstH_jhs6PQVrqd53Jh8gGCcpPmQBQyUo4zJz_I23kKjP2C5UH tNGjwmzrkWWT1tvrFEdZSobO2vo9v6heV2oDwD5ja0jC71gJ1yz_JZhSAKfs TMrg0DOlzWzqfPvJkma30j_8breX8jQz8fJpP_J2yh7Pwawxv.n.yNnmn1jR svqLK91gxnPvFwknoQ_IUOv5_S2IuLr_Umapw_arvQ2yAJ6ykRpE1z0IHzBs EjbwzKylic27aDlBpDs7EfnsQv2M9M4mccPAwtM.Tyvljoa9A0UkjMNoaGSv 7JVMwcxE6KcAp3oG5QJuCLmyuV291CVC9Pe86RbWvHySdZH1t.Of_kchbIaT q9DyvQJEqJz_MNkiAcjhI4WP98bstQD8kaJMI4kur6cKZU8ywa57XJSCSIvA w7MPKEmcZEVW_FwFfzQiLG1ZSFT4W94wIxyNlYUBcgp9_KGCCd0m_W6th58r 4.WNo_eXq16kJBmItLEkFMw_5ZRGrXpfGTF5YXD2zfXJIKpgCPnaH1bo1Kgi u3yzB4i9SxfA.IgNJETiLlGZXIxfw5GTUptY73w4xx0CsrmXxJvRVWx3A8RB bNOSPucXiNDapkt7cU5Wpqq_AtMjGXQx4HXac.y6UEW_DQ7Ix6eb4b7UQdV0 SNS3C1LylBtFKTAJzHxQCNglCGZPsGK6sa5cBiaGzXW29de2i6tXhmmi4_70 ZhDT3TAcCntU2y.AznCkGS7RliM.AOFTv20Av0OXCmf26JCjf9dagSVphJg6 KqIXk3Nsh8Q42mORA9SHao450tL3HoDDnVw52OmBFmmQhqwu.TlvBQL1Y4bh 9HAOnps0c2j81KxeP.OlNaEZFaM2yhQaHb9Kn4nNZTNrcfpbLHm6RGIQPqN0 x00.50NDXEpat0LhGuqn1PWuRm0ZryPu2rEX4BSXF7Bidpa2lfYkOgKS34Bt csHwlYLBo567MGpOoNmDK2IOdR9_vmt8hi.fmTDh5Qv_csNYXBO8bma8i9lH IDmdeCvCHK.OhPOtvJNSyKb6eUZAsvua56_ViN9ajKjlu7UxXD3dS5MYu_RA .iNEhdxi0fWFRnJY1hrnvt5tE7kJ3npHNxEsfanHclNerjcSzW8oNNjbrk0g Xv_Rrsh6rVTFzH7CbLoCbWiAHVMx0iVefdT_mkgIGocYLJ0tzSAnwPWeT.nb M4rmK4zf1.rPrzriCOx.B3Cm8feYLewuP6dImZABynZaTdQYZa7qcFg__oEq Qh7jMpRewPvoUi9nWjVtQTeo4KfJJcce4g8IpIX3iJlrq7..00Y1I3Qjhlj5 pXnc2i4GAWz3VM0CzbGSBDPhE19s2bqnRwDM1nJ6DAGQNoyJZiivfyMLLQX. iBQbx6zNVmjtvvJerm0OUMz5rt_T12oTmGbBHs.TBxX05jlTHRJsGUlJakkC uq.RrfT9_yIdu6jYq6bGm1_XDZ98gIltv5WGLi9vF8tedQ_iHQCU0XEjcIwp iEA3xo477YGh7tFtX2IUL_1TT4pRfWn7wYLPqpcqhpDh3ebjkWTPuJWb4L4B UGHJDOJVeX.PmEL6oOLTq_ZIwbwUbXvQmOsf4bItIUJgLfH6lpmfHhQsl7a_ gvjnh6aokJFtD.DLH95UbNIFvGz8A7sYkvADhpLT9mgnDEsAsd_I5Qx_N.wh qFmQrXYW9enU- X-Received: from [109.176.216.217] by web161520.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:28:24 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/14.0.7 YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 Message-ID: <1319394504.11691.YahooMailClassic@web161520.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:28:24 -0700 (PDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1499369499-2060129880-1319394504=:11691" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: erfan starled Subject: Group enquiry X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=310858615; y=-5JudlUqSjv7ZZPVKaMOfQWYw_GY0mnahWCoEUrj0SdtUwDzUayEJg X-Yahoo-Profile: erfan.starled ---1499369499-2060129880-1319394504=:11691 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please can you help me find the Yahoo group or discussion venu for Silmari= llion Writers Guild? Thanks, Erfan ~~~My candle burns at both ends;It will = not last the night;But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends - It gives a lovely= light! ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay ~ S=C3=A4lj inte skinnet f=C3=B6rr=C3=A4n= bj=C3=B6rnen =C3=A4r skjuten --- On Sun, 10/16/11, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund Subje= ct: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] If You Use Internet Explorer 9 ... To: LOTR_= Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, "SWG" Date: Sunday, October 16, 2011, 4:37 PM =C2=A0 = Hi, all, I've had this issue crop up three times= now in fairly close succession, which tells me it's time to put out a gene= ral message about it, since more folks will likely be switching to Internet= Explorer 9, and I'd like to save unnecessary frustration for them, if I ca= n. Several users have reported serious problems using Internet Explorer 9 = with eFiction sites. (Both SWG and MPTT use eFiction software.) They are un= able to add stories or leave comments on stories. If you use IE 9 (or plan= on upgrading to IE 9 sometime in the future) and experience problems using= the archive, please turn on compatibility mode. Then the site should run f= ine. If you don't know how to do that, Microsoft has a help page: http://w= indows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/why-do-some-webpages-look-incorrect-in-= internet-explorer-9 Of course, if you run into any=C2=A0problems at all wh= ile using the archive, please don't hesitate to contact me at this address.= All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/here= tic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org = ---1499369499-2060129880-1319394504=:11691 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please can you help me find the Yahoo gro= up or discussion venu for Silmarillion Writers Guild?
Thanks,
Erfan
~~~
My candle burns=
 at both ends;
It will not l=
ast the night;
But ah, my fo=
es, and oh, my friends - 
It gives a lovely light!

~ Edna St. Vincent Milla=
y ~

S=C3=A4lj =
inte skinnet f=C3=B6rr=C3=A4n bj=C3=B6rnen =C3=A4r
 skjuten
=

--- On Sun, 10/16/11, Dawn Felagund wrote:

From: Dawn Felagund &l= t;DawnFelagund@gmail.com>
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] If You = Use Internet Explorer 9 ...
To: LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com, "SW= G"
Date: Sunday, Octobe= r 16, 2011, 4:37 PM

 

Hi, all,


I've had thi= s issue crop up three times now in fairly close succession, which tells me = it's time to put out a general message about it, since more folks will like= ly be switching to Internet Explorer 9, and I'd like to save unnecessary fr= ustration for them, if I can.

Several users have = reported serious problems using Internet Explorer 9 with eFiction sites. (B= oth SWG and MPTT use eFiction software.) They are unable to add stories or = leave comments on stories.

If you use IE 9 (or pl= an on upgrading to IE 9 sometime in the future) and experience problems usi= ng the archive, please turn on compatibility mode. Then the site should run= fine.

If you don't know how to do that, Microsof= t has a help page:


Of course, if you = run into any problems at all while using the archive, please do= n't hesitate to contact me at this address.
=
---1499369499-2060129880-1319394504=:11691-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3368 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38922 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2011 18:32:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2011 18:32:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pz0-f50.google.com) (209.85.210.50) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2011 18:32:20 -0000 X-Received: by pzk34 with SMTP id 34so14986956pzk.9 for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:32:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.122.169 with SMTP id lt9mr42619086pbb.114.1319394739814; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:32:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.211.14 with HTTP; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:32:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1319394504.11691.YahooMailClassic@web161520.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1319394504.11691.YahooMailClassic@web161520.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 14:32:19 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f642d38c9016404affb862a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Group enquiry X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=njL5OhdM0BNGMGt7dpTv_TBsZHgqJw1Ssj73yJNGp5GmScPyxGKr X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f642d38c9016404affb862a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Erfan, Here is the URL for it: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/ You can post to the group from your email by sending a message to SilmarillionWritersGuild AT yahoogroups DOT com All the best, Dawn On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:28 PM, erfan starled wrote: > ** > > > > Please can you help me find the Yahoo group or discussion venu for > Silmarillion Writers Guild? > Thanks, > Erfan > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f642d38c9016404affb862a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Erfan,

Here is the URL for it:

<= div>htt= p://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/

You can post to the group from your email by sending a message to= =C2=A0SilmarillionWritersGuild AT yahoogroups DOT com

<= div>All the best,

Dawn

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:28 PM, erfan starled <= ;erfan.starled@yahoo.com>= wrote:
=C2=A0
=


Pl= ease can you help me find the Yahoo group or discussion venu for Silmarilli= on Writers Guild?
Thanks,
Erfan

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagun= d
http://themidh= avens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8f642d38c9016404affb862a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3369 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12515 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2011 02:26:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m11.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2011 02:26:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f169.google.com) (209.85.210.169) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2011 02:26:35 -0000 X-Received: by iagf6 with SMTP id f6so10818345iag.28 for ; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:26:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.189.231 with SMTP id gl7mr1453287igc.44.1320200793881; Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:26:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.10.230 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Nov 2011 19:26:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:26:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae934115159fc5404b0b73300 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: November 2011 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uN8HyTBIsghIh-jQhsocXPzPJI9bWFtzmpTg_TK9QOnSp2LuLF_K X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --14dae934115159fc5404b0b73300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Our November newsletter has been posted on the website! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/november2011.php In this month's news, Angelica, our Library of Tirion mod, sends a reminder to send in your requests for stories and authors (pre-2007!) for the Library of Tirion section of our archive. This project aims to archive stories that were published before our archive opened. We're almost out of stories to post and so need some new recommendations! Also, if you use or intend to upgrade to Internet Explorer 9, be sure to check out how to make your browser compatible with the archive. This month's biography is on Tulkas. Tulkas has a singular purpose in *The Silmarillion,* but as is often the case, delving into earlier drafts reveals details about him that were scrubbed from the published text. The newsletter also contains a list of stories added to the archive last month, a fresh set of challenges to tickle your muses, and announcements from groups beyond the SWG. Many thanks, as always, to my comods Rhapsody and Angelica, who do most of the ground work needed to publish the newsletter! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/november2011.php Enjoy! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --14dae934115159fc5404b0b73300 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Our November newsletter has been posted on the = website!


In this month's news,= Angelica, our Library of Tirion mod, sends a reminder to send in your requ= ests for stories and authors (pre-2007!) for the Library of Tirion section = of our archive. This project aims to archive stories that were published be= fore our archive opened. We're almost out of stories to post and so nee= d some new recommendations! Also, if you use or intend to upgrade to Intern= et Explorer 9, be sure to check out how to make your browser compatible wit= h the archive.

This month's biography is on T= ulkas. Tulkas has a singular purpose in The Silmarillion,=C2=A0but a= s is often the case, delving into earlier drafts reveals details about him = that were scrubbed from the published text.

The n= ewsletter also contains a list of stories added to the archive last month, = a fresh set of challenges to tickle your muses, and announcements from grou= ps beyond the SWG. Many thanks, as always, to my comods Rhapsody and Angeli= ca, who do most of the ground work needed to publish the newsletter!
=


Enjoy! :)

--14dae934115159fc5404b0b73300-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3370 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17388 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2011 02:43:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2011 02:43:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ng17-ip1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.215.252) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2011 02:43:45 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1321065824; bh=oheGRmrD3gTAWs/teCkmKizna9SIwePrXparyCn6Ga8=; h=Received:Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=AfNLRCKEoApyFvJ+w6GCzhZbjxEbdgVsK0xjWfKOBpjFPKH9AUldbOxKMgutpW8sFMgFzz88swe3Tej807a4z5fQsaVwHg3TvEjZeiNiLe29UmQqmPTE2qDzlaIwZJKk Received: from [98.138.217.178] by ng17.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2011 02:43:44 -0000 Received: from [69.147.65.151] by tg3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2011 02:43:44 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2011 02:43:44 -0000 X-Sender: kbgutierrez@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9142 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2011 23:39:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2011 23:39:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng7-ip2.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.165.48) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2011 23:39:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.164.126] by ng7.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Nov 2011 23:39:16 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by tg7.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Nov 2011 23:39:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Nov 2011 23:39:16 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:39:16 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "KImberly" Subject: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=486765969; y=uqzL3V13yM0xbQlcXl3DJetoH9TxMqslz9XSUx7xYmDI0UXQ8qs X-Yahoo-Profile: kbgutierrez X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 12 Nov 2011 02:43:44 -0000 I recently joined this group and thought that I would quickly introduce mys= elf. I too became a reader of Tolkien only after seeing FOTR. I fell in l= ove with the books. Up until 2005, I was involved in writing fanfiction (t= he unfortunate stories are still up at ff.net) and in various LOTR themed R= PGs. When greatestjournal.com went under, I lost most of my other Tolkien = fanfiction. My muse got put on hold when I married and started a family. = However, I am in the process of finding my library of Tolkien and re-immers= ing myself in this world. I will be posting fiction again, and I welcome a= ll constructive criticism. I look forward to meeting you all! Kim From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3371 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5997 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2011 03:04:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m13.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2011 03:04:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2011 03:04:06 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2011 03:04:01 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2011 03:04:01 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 03:04:00 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Dawn F" Subject: Re: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KAPtJy-_XvnqLDcnPQDNsDatNhvfc3_XZ2RrNbufcBc9U6gprgAl X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, Kim, and welcome! :) I also became interested in Tolkien's books thank= s to the movies; reading LotR prompted me to read the Silm, and here I am! = :) This list has become fairly quiet lately, although I do hope that will = change someday (possibly when I have the time to be a proper group owner/mo= d again ... soon!). You might also be aware, but we have a website with a f= iction archive for Silm stories: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/ = So what are your favorite aspects/characters in the Silm? Did you write Si= lmfic before, or did you mostly focus on LotR? Any particular interests as = a writer? Again, welcome, and please give me a holler if I can help you in= any way! :) Dawn --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, "KImbe= rly" wrote: > > I recently joined this group and thought = that I would quickly introduce myself. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3372 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7869 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2011 03:05:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m15.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2011 03:05:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f181.google.com) (209.85.210.181) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2011 03:05:01 -0000 X-Received: by mail-iy0-f181.google.com with SMTP id n33so5455132iae.12 for ; Fri, 11 Nov 2011 19:05:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.47.168 with SMTP id e8mr15393853ign.15.1321067101228; Fri, 11 Nov 2011 19:05:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.40.195 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Nov 2011 19:05:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 22:05:01 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9340ab14b0d1204b180e7a4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=_2q_631zccIfkcF4ODeipCw4rTx2AXyYJZzVuqmouufg_lhkLYio X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --14dae9340ab14b0d1204b180e7a4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 ... and ignore my previous post about the SWG site--I see you've joined since I last checked the site this morning! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --14dae9340ab14b0d1204b180e7a4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ... and ignore my previous post about the SWG site--I see you've joined= since I last checked the site this morning! :)

Dawn --14dae9340ab14b0d1204b180e7a4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3373 Return-Path: X-Sender: kbgutierrez@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 124 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2011 03:21:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m12.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2011 03:21:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng10-ip1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.215.189) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2011 03:21:51 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.217.176] by ng10.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2011 03:21:50 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by tg1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2011 03:21:50 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2011 03:21:50 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 03:21:50 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "KImberly" Subject: Re: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=486765969; y=CYVkbp-kKKoBO0qv_jm1tcnJb6ax4XoxJ91Vjx5Rc73tjryHnhI X-Yahoo-Profile: kbgutierrez I did just join this morning! I hope to gain some vital concrit since it h= as been at least four years since my last try at fiction writing. I am r= eacquainting myself with my copy of the Silmarillion, so I am in the midst = of discovery again! I've had quite a few "I remember that!" moments. I ha= ve always been interested in many of the main players in the First and Seco= nd Ages. I tend to favor Gil-Galad. There was something beautifully tragi= c about his reign as the last king. I have attempted Silmarillion fictio= n before and re-read the tries. Some of my plots were borderline heretical= ! I am proud to say that not only my writing style, but my common sense ha= s evolved. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3374 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95510 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2011 15:15:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2011 15:15:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f175.google.com) (209.85.210.175) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2011 15:15:33 -0000 X-Received: by iahk25 with SMTP id k25so4529411iah.20 for ; Sat, 12 Nov 2011 07:15:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.135.40 with SMTP id pp8mr17157568igb.1.1321110932102; Sat, 12 Nov 2011 07:15:32 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.40.195 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Nov 2011 07:15:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 10:15:32 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f83ab8bd11d8d04b18b1bb5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Hi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=16F87QHp3NV5vLR0DR3scFtw8hMdu7ZSSLdCGUO8EOxgFeIiUWCN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f83ab8bd11d8d04b18b1bb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Kim, Yep, it's my usual routine to check the site in the morning, so we must have just missed each other! :) If you're looking for concrit, I'll be honest that we don't see a lot of concrit on stories posted on the archive. We obviously *allow* concrit, but it just doesn't happen much in comments on stories posted on the archive. That said, our group is fortunate to have many gifted writers who do help each other out with beta-reading, critique, and the like. I know there are a couple of active writers' groups out there; the Lizard Council comes first to my mind as a group that I know a lot of SWG members participate in. Anyone else know of any other groups out there? (I'm afraid that real life has kept me out of the loop for a couple of years now.) A number of our members also work with other authors as betas. I just wanted to give you some additional options, in case you find that you're not getting what you need in the form of concrit on the archive. > Some of my plots were borderline heretical! As a self-identified "canon" heretic, that doesn't sound like a bad thing to me! ;) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f83ab8bd11d8d04b18b1bb5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Kim,

Yep, it's my usual routine to check the sit= e in the morning, so we must have just missed each other! :)

=
If you're looking for concrit, I'll be honest that we do= n't see a lot of concrit on stories posted on the archive. We obviously= allow=C2=A0concrit, but it just doesn't happen much in comments= on stories posted on the archive. That said, our group is fortunate to hav= e many gifted writers who do help each other out with beta-reading, critiqu= e, and the like. I know there are a couple of active writers' groups ou= t there; the Lizard Council comes first to my mind as a group that I know a= lot of SWG members participate in. Anyone else know of any other groups ou= t there? (I'm afraid that real life has kept me out of the loop for a c= ouple of years now.) A number of our members also work with other authors a= s betas. I just wanted to give you some additional options, in case you fin= d that you're not getting what you need in the form of concrit on the a= rchive.

>=C2=A0Some of my plots were bo= rderline heretical!

As a self-identified &q= uot;canon" heretic, that doesn't sound like a bad thing to me! ;)<= /div>

All the best,

--e89a8f83ab8bd11d8d04b18b1bb5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3375 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16562 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2011 02:53:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2011 02:53:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f175.google.com) (209.85.161.175) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2011 02:53:39 -0000 X-Received: by ggnh4 with SMTP id h4so1853300ggn.6 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:53:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.47.168 with SMTP id e8mr21663341ign.15.1321239217322; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:53:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.40.195 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:53:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:53:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9340ab1363b4704b1a8fa2c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Poll and Discussion on Reviewing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MA1Gzay9Yv4B1wMB-Tw3_lp14jjIwUrifhZkZwtMBRRPWF5Nnd9e X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --14dae9340ab1363b4704b1a8fa2c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I've been thinking about reviews (or comments on stories, if you prefer) lately. What motivates a reader to leave a comment? How does the number of reviews received influence where an author posts her work? What makes a reader decide *not* to review a story? I have my pet theories, but I am very interested in whether others have similar experiences and theories, so I posted a poll to LiveJournal and Dreamwidth this morning, asking these questions and more about reading and reviewing habits in fandom. I'd very much appreciate input from anyone with the time to participate in the poll. http://dawn-felagund.livejournal.com/290950.html http://dawn-felagund.dreamwidth.org/283576.html There's also some very interesting discussions going on in the comments. All opinions are welcome! :) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --14dae9340ab1363b4704b1a8fa2c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I've been thinking about reviews (or comments o= n stories, if you prefer) lately. What motivates a reader to leave a commen= t? How does the number of reviews received influence where an author posts = her work? What makes a reader decide not=C2=A0to review a story?

I have my pet theories, but I am very interest= ed in whether others have similar experiences and theories, so I posted a p= oll to LiveJournal and Dreamwidth this morning, asking these questions and = more about reading and reviewing habits in fandom. I'd very much apprec= iate input from anyone with the time to participate in the poll.

<= div>http://dawn-felagund.dreamwidth.org/283576.html
<= br>
There's also some very interesting discussions going on i= n the comments. All opinions are welcome! :)

All t= he best,

Dawn
--14dae9340ab1363b4704b1a8fa2c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3376 Return-Path: X-Sender: erfan.starled@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39528 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2011 17:48:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2011 17:48:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm30-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.213.126) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2011 17:48:46 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.212.151] by nm30.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2011 17:48:45 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.212.225] by tm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2011 17:48:45 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1034.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2011 17:48:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 521712.67927.bm@omp1034.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 52447 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2011 17:48:45 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 9yVZTtAVM1nP.hlRW0rI6jtWoDqgUfEGB8hrHS9BAsxEA12 6.lkhIzf0YP7yynsp4XvIwepAUIfHw7BlzsYGsgOByMIMwh8TOh0aJrB0WaA Ae2HjcYj9RIgXhbxae6p3GB256nHOXSGgA2R36ScQAcGSiF8.XEhK.pi8Prb LvYF1vRSgcArAn20UcNIhG2xwJX7bzpVklIAnY7DixcNbn9IqeGgF4zd8VQq X50IcgO9pOkNzYgcrtnf788g6_A4WcZHV3Ax7.CLvMH7mYuxIY4TNK63QaFT bWQxyEZ7VI5WdQPOq_GJyiMcelal6WACtb1zqJiXgEYJHaf3o0gL6ZTYRnII sAqD5EaYofg1TZCZCbIF1ZTOtTX6NyMZS_2WgzWtlN3x.xnmM9YFHv_7Irj. 0pQpsPt8sjl1Er6_rAtvN1pm.Oh8mM0eWNqOpjkQp_ELfbqBfI4.ulwcpFXx s7ChTTCG7LzHk10FPFRblsR2htbz2X5f15gqyQnzaCVtWZ3s9QRdNIgsFfkt PYbQpPs04G7i0afCnr.YKh3RZ2tm3UQDwlPbh5Dy8w3GAtMBTNby4bAOULfy TVqoZ1TPKBoqhqyUHDBERZQwZ9CDmE8iz.wisx_ZQPCtc6GT7QplPMrcnh1I GKC1HaLq.nqWv6kx09qJ_kbJdRLZp3yfKNSYxGbAxUEOWZbqTi3mSAj4Yj53 MtUVuR.5hZmj0s9RpInJqOE8Y6cjxeIWNC7iMviHeLhXKkaAz_neZQD7P9gd bZQv1z3Yd7rW9xMe.maEEQsgYMgqMOpiQlkvWMMLNnln7urg.a.Tvd_28l.h uJiI1XBbDuXx5KGpdB5FbIWpRPnJNz4zFcxaLHnUtJKjVzcZEV9EbjNgzeM3 80TAYoAy4VE.OpbLxjOOZQQzIxVtyMDbieV9ZH_mflfb8.jTcHIJS8xH8Kb. 8PIWqASfjVRhevqKzxqCjFcB7mkcE4UVKlMZx4lE0vsmcYTKqaXQCkzVGMxo jYG98FryZBwogFEl3YZv3IdUlLaEl_p496nKsT9GK1ziLvfUU_5tnqsa_.sv lY5SU696DVXbiXxNBceWkvf2SOIzlfNxFgqU5KDeyKryeLWNiJZoQKhYrlO4 wnBdowIa.zyy6SA1j8G7pgMK2E7wxKf2JLhLIRpdIFrNAPWykFIkRU9kJv8E GaIwfH7gMq4Khpreai0sYnzFVLJ33hqDySP2sGLYzxdBrIymm0ADn.1._h57 4F25EWovsdkJ3F1pKoNCDLHKFAzm8sWiLpTG82lK1eFIvmME.isPLO9qto6P AUNcTlAyGwBqP4H1QeoDt2ljz9gX2PeEMAFbEwgNTnbtlRkEWR5KO6kOpNz8 LcBoSTQsawrQmVPK.l8BbXt0rVT9eYRqS84momGb07o8CRsFFtTR9hy44x_D 0fCk3DWh1ZmBfxtAMzc1NpS7xP7gRznc_1o9SAgdUXXq_He3T8knAsOxu9Wo 1JgMbiFAGjUvHdjet8UF.sg330XDmWjjvBWUWX02GRbb93ZeEcExOTsxvc7_ jH0UIsUfmKtZr7F6OxgS0sfc4IDwhuCsBHOTPma9iyFExs9uWK6cKhK5yQ2z D0v.iKFItInZ0VtPSwPNmaLQ.6JddLzN4vqBjUCeiIZHdcTqYYRvksGaEo37 1cdKdbl9OjfQVkS97huGcjsXC6RXzrBj7C0edVV0Lek0x2jHoDsj22yqbglF 3gT85uVp1Y.kKsTUSZhzLf94JQ8AEZ2PeIIQ83L5K.nVcsmaYUr0rECI.J_a EmUKYr9YV2UyWLhsj_MW.Sav6R2PrHiof3rpUmID.xAsi1WSkIJeDw5lthLW E.PNDCu_iR3iPWKX3uBLXMyeojTWYZIsKbVFAqHnodsmwgc8d7kX0pIuBwf9 Z2Vdk9ghTegoWgPewTBhOtfNa2E2xuM7qWJFnGpfEkLMb4w_8thDEbL1mzkw N6ayaUjNXpWIWNLTvS3m0uyzc_rNXmegv.ZiD0JeLOXVdogTRC0JtK4iUWNb IsCiYuPouVkYWq5RQR7C2AnE.aH2mojVhHcLekHBI6aC.X3eUlz_eB5cbHBG Hf8ZIrzWfKNBW17oT8Iv3s0SG81IgkB_A4YZbAZcBXsU3rsMr8Jl2Pl3iU7V K1THn1lezL4DYHEjODh2ON93FmDwYI9zXSDVrYcJ0w35sTOYVXC7sqNqIZWX 3W6AIoK3M1FIAdnDbLwUTKEZBC8m0kkQMJsf.rBg7uiNjlh07XQnCDC4z6gM dWP5jIb2kGAcrB5emymmH0cC2_gO47F8MrIFV.8wjlAe.4IEJ0855kb4_HYc VR.5JJx7eHcKI8LsX2n0NQXTLajo0v.jLsGMU_fKGSauB2StIjCbbmS0pLQU SyjYFBYum2k0VjQkDZGnPLAJ7f9hXSQmxuI2QsINnRyMbH9WhH6ybv1Kk1Lw ProCuq5E3q2vPpFD3XXSGa.to7Ze8F6FK5F2PYbk6kCsxG1nNTTdFmR57OVm p1VfPYhgqB7ti39HtnwDU5JjMWol_.ZxudBZtwPAzAX8G66avNlenXrYA1y6 PRi7Buoq08KnZ4qAsyS0RfLCj_JQFGFOv.aGDgzRjvrLQMYF1axCUn6GVgQl 5HP5usoFagjzzTDgWpi1sO8nAfX6g.vumpOeP2gGL5bsam.t7pV6RvGjtxUK suxcpPg_ybps8W35cf4e95G4lwMv7p0rBgS3bNxgzysnXmmX6wWU85b3aBMp hmjhwJyZBHH5zSk4ZYQGyzU3Nh3jknd9olR_YvMMXS1G6dEmwIbgaIp6OGLw 4MhWK8juG6beif9hFKKWpZtarKjlNeEmVpIVuSxXysOlOfZWpihqx0AM0PeL PcKsqguHUBi3Y4kVBcZry5SI3sC3rj2s7SY2gCJCg_RWRDQmojuQmfyBD92E PaR5mPL70N6bk5nHkja9P2d9kFKZ6kkmLfc6d_YmoTiiqUEGlwynkTIbMgx3 bX6d5jCiYBvpIiqefLzrtbBm3x5kUtag99IyfTMyqmnFWlsc9XBjsoJFWjHA d7W9nW7iHQvnxoySNELOscSGdqe0U1arsnB7u2nw10anGP_Y2FhbItXD01WX W4MfZlem3fH8SlLLcvLtXYBGq52pTH8gW8iCDQs_PLtmRj11n4pJKUEsjSGK SRSafky9A3R.dg5E_ZUmtTJEwpgi9e7et9eYAZXXCCXXChZhE_DzgRJO6MZD LjeaPll4n.TynKFJvpDn1.rGIcx2C6BsJ2ASCvSxautfD2JpPWqLh3QtGA9z ZfL1zGorwfnbREY6TsMU- X-Received: from [80.249.48.109] by web161514.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:48:45 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/14.0.11 YahooMailWebService/0.8.115.325013 Message-ID: <1321552125.42679.YahooMailClassic@web161514.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:48:45 -0800 (PST) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="2081517380-1482905434-1321552125=:42679" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: erfan starled Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Group enquiry X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=310858615; y=H92Z8HOUl1a4437-G4aSWpC7lWgGkjqN10gQRwULTzGqNHHgOKFc7Q X-Yahoo-Profile: erfan.starled --2081517380-1482905434-1321552125=:42679 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you kindly. Best wishes, Erfan ~~~My candle burns at both ends;It wi= ll not last the night;But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends - It gives a lov= ely light! ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay ~ S=C3=A4lj inte skinnet f=C3=B6rr=C3= =A4n bj=C3=B6rnen =C3=A4r skjuten --- On Sun, 10/23/11, Dawn Felagund wrote: From: Dawn Felagund S= ubject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Group enquiry To: SilmarillionWriter= sGuild@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 23, 2011, 8:32 PM =C2= =A0 Hi, Erfan, Here is the URL for it: htt= p://groups.yahoo.com/group/SilmarillionWritersGuild/ You can post to the g= roup from your email by sending a message to=C2=A0SilmarillionWritersGuild = AT yahoogroups DOT com All the best, Dawn On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:28 PM,= erfan starled wrote: =C2=A0 = Please can you help me find the Yahoo group o= r discussion venu for Silmarillion Writers Guild? Thanks, Erfan -- ~oOo~ = Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org --2081517380-1482905434-1321552125=:42679 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you kindly.
Best wishes,
Erfan
<=
span style=3D"">~~~
My candl=
e burns at both ends;
It wil=
l not last the night;
But ah=
, my foes, and oh, my friends - 
It gives a lovely light!

~ Edna St. Vincen=
t Millay ~

S=
=C3=A4lj inte skinnet f=C3=B6rr=C3=A4n bj=C3=B6rnen =C3=A4r
 skjuten


--- On Sun, 10/23/11, Dawn Felagund wrote:

From: Dawn Fe= lagund
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersG= uild] Group enquiry
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date= : Sunday, October 23, 2011, 8:32 PM

=
 

Hi, Erfan,


Here is the URL for it:

You can post to the group from your email by sending a messag= e to SilmarillionWritersGuild AT yahoogroups DOT com

All the best,

Dawn

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:28 PM, erfan starled <e= rfan.starled@yahoo.com> wrote:
=
<= span> 

<= table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0">
Please can you help me find the Yahoo group or discussion venu for Silmari= llion Writers Guild?
Thanks,
Erfan

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fela= gund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
<= /div>
Examples: <= /DIV>
 
1) slash is never identified as a choice = on any way on HASA, but I have never once read a story and= thought, well what a surprise to find this is about a same-sex/homosexual= relationship. Writers choose to say so in summaries, to keep those w= ho aren't going to like it from reading it. and perhaps even identify a ta= rget audience.
 
2) MEFAs identify romantic pair= ing--so unless one doesn't realize Eowyn/Arwen is an f/f pairing there wil= l never be a problem with reader confusion.
 
&= nbsp;
 
 



It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Fin= d your travel deal here.
<= /BODY> -------------------------------1220292648-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2275 Return-Path: X-Sender: Heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99609 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2008 18:18:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2008 18:18:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2008 18:18:37 -0000 X-Received: from Heartofoshun@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id r.c72.395f4fbb (39332) for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2008 14:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 14:18:30 EDT To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1220293110" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Poll and Public Opinion on Slash/Het Labels on... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=syskITgeuDA4FnjSDgfRcMNi6qLuqmCKC4rh8S6YEozf5iXZJqZb X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun -------------------------------1220293110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had some kind of weird typo in that last post. Examples of what I like, [without--extra word didn't belong] are the ways it is done at HASA and in the MEFAs. My previous post was NOT any kind of concrete suggestion--just two examples of places where I was comfortable with the choices. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------------------------1220293110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =
I had some kind o= f weird typo in that last post.
Examples = of what I like, [without--extra word didn't belong] are th= e ways it is done at HASA and in the MEFAs. 
My previous post was NOT any kind of concrete suggestion--just two examp= les of places where I was comfortable with the choices. 
--2081517380-1482905434-1321552125=:42679-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3377 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74336 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2011 19:19:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Nov 2011 19:19:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f171.google.com) (209.85.210.171) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2011 19:19:19 -0000 X-Received: by iaby12 with SMTP id y12so7972130iab.2 for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2011 11:19:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.136.196 with SMTP id v4mr11272188ict.3.1321816758800; Sun, 20 Nov 2011 11:19:18 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.140.104 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Nov 2011 11:19:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 14:19:18 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba613c7c5dcfed04b22f722b From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month 2012 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5Daa9-tmcvAcMmV_qBsoJjGK4dRnRw7h3eHDCd5GSHozgHt-p_a6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --90e6ba613c7c5dcfed04b22f722b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Yes, it is that time again! Time to start planning for 2012's Back to Middle-earth Month event! :) As in years past, before we begin planning this year's project, we are interested in feedback from members and B2MeM participants about the kind of challenge they'd like to see. You're welcome to share your thoughts on this list or contact us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. The following LiveJournal post has more information as well: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/198557.html As always, volunteers and other groups who might be interested in joining us are most welcome as well. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --90e6ba613c7c5dcfed04b22f722b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, it is that time again! Time to start planning for 2012's Back to M= iddle-earth Month event! :)

As in years past, before we = begin planning this year's project, we are interested in feedback from = members and B2MeM participants about the kind of challenge they'd like = to see. You're welcome to share your thoughts on this list or contact u= s at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.

The following LiveJournal post has more information as well:
<= br>

As always, volunteers and other groups who might be interested in j= oining us are most welcome as well.

All the best,<= /div>

--90e6ba613c7c5dcfed04b22f722b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3378 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82520 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2011 15:28:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m10.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2011 15:28:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f178.google.com) (209.85.210.178) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2011 15:28:09 -0000 X-Received: by iagj37 with SMTP id j37so687464iag.37 for ; Sat, 03 Dec 2011 07:28:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.231.83.199 with SMTP id g7mr673521ibl.78.1322926086762; Sat, 03 Dec 2011 07:28:06 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.189.134 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Dec 2011 07:28:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 10:28:06 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd4b2987730d104b331bbf9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: December 2011 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=z-6eFyTWpksLG5nm5rwh7I3ee4E_zYHbYiv57PXeaxHzzlcqB7XY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --000e0cd4b2987730d104b331bbf9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The December 2011 edition of our newsletter has been posted on our homepage: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/december2011.php As usual, we have news from within and beyond the borders of the SWG. Additionally, Oshun has written another fabulous biography, this month on Varda, drawing on everything from ancient myth to modern pop culture to explain why Varda is so important in the books and so appealing as a character, as well as giving a review of what we know of Varda from Tolkien's texts. This month, we also revisit the "Gift of a Story" challenge and encourage our authors to create something for a friend this month, in honor of the winter holidays and New Year. Many thanks to our newsletter contributors--Oshun, Rhapsody, and Angelica--for making it happen every month! :) Best wishes for a fabulous holiday season and New Year, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --000e0cd4b2987730d104b331bbf9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The December 2011 edition of our newsletter has= been posted on our homepage:


As u= sual, we have news from within and beyond the borders of the SWG. Additiona= lly, Oshun has written another fabulous biography, this month on Varda, dra= wing on everything from ancient myth to modern pop culture to explain why V= arda is so important in the books and so appealing as a character, as well = as giving a review of what we know of Varda from Tolkien's texts.
=

This month, we also revisit the "Gift of a Story&= quot; challenge and encourage our authors to create something for a friend = this month, in honor of the winter holidays and New Year.

Many thanks to our newsletter contributors--Oshun, Rhapsody, and A= ngelica--for making it happen every month! :)

Best= wishes for a fabulous holiday season and New Year,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.n= et/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--000e0cd4b2987730d104b331bbf9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3379 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61582 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2011 19:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m15.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2011 19:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2011 19:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2011 19:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2011 19:02:43 -0000 Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2011 19:02:43 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Red" Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2012 - Signups beginning today! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=vboHrCo93lvRv5aBYHINPyPpEmixNu5YXXuTifs6H_SH9iL-Q33j X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin Sign up now for My Slashy Santa 2012: a Tolkien Slash exchange! From the Ye= ars of the Trees through the Fourth Age =96 it's time once again to make yo= ur Tolkien FPS fanfic dreams come true=85 Have you always wanted to read a= certain pairing or scenario, but couldn't write it yourself? Or have a plo= t bunny that's been rolling around in your mind, but just can't see yoursel= f writing that particular story? Have it written for you =96 specifically = and especially for your own sweet self! And share your own fic gift in exch= ange! That's right, it's time for My Slashy Valentine brought to you by th= e same folks who sponsor the renowned Slashy Santa and Ardor in August Fict= ion Exchange. Fhe exchange focuses solely on the Elves, Man, Valar and Mai= ar of J.R.R. Tolkien's legendarium. Maybe it's Legolas and Haldir you love,= or perhaps Aragorn-on-Halbarad strikes your fancy... or maybe Manwe is you= r main man - from the First Age to the Fourth =96 spread the word, recruit = your friends and fellow authors, and have some fun! Sign-ups begin Saturda= y, December 3, 2011 and will close at midnight (GMT-5:00) on Saturday, Dece= mber 17, 2011. For first time participants, stories will be due by February= 1st, and for returning writers they will be due on February 8th. They will= be unveiled on SlashySanta.com on Tu= esday, February 14th. How does a fiction exchange work? It's simple. READ = THE RULES posted in the Slashy Santa LJ community (link here ) and you will find a link to the sign-u= p page where you may specify a pairing, rating, and the plot elements you w= ould like to read, as well as the elements you are willing to write, and so= meone will write a story for you. In exchange, you will write a story for s= omeone else using the specifications they provide. Even if you don't want = to take part in the exchange, you can still elect to be a reserve writer to= be called upon in case of an emergency. Just say so on the signup form. A= ll we ask is that you adhere to some basic rules - If you sign up, please m= ake sure that you can follow through and write at least 1,200 words. Please= note also that this is a SLASH only FPS exchange (no RPS or het, please). = PLEASE NOTE: If you have defaulted in previous years, you will NOT be allo= wed to participate this year! These stories are gifts for your friends and = fellow fans, and it is incredibly disappointing for a participant who has w= orked hard to turn in their own story only to find that we have nothing to = give them. There will be no exceptions to this rule. Visit the Swap Rules = and FAQ for the full set of rules a= nd Frequently Asked Questions. Here are some important dates to make note = of: * Dec. 3rd - 17th : Sign-up period * Dec 24th: Assignments delivered *= Feb. 1th: Stories due from first time participants * Feb. 8th: Stories due= from returning writers * Feb. 14th: Archive opens Come check out SlashySa= nta.com and peruse some of the past e= ntries - they're terrific and will give you an idea of what's in store! Ho= pe to see you there! The Slashy Admins "'Tis Always the Season for Slash!"= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3380 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27210 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2011 23:46:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2011 23:46:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2011 23:46:07 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2011 23:46:06 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2011 23:46:06 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 23:46:05 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose From: "Red" Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2012 - Final Week of Sign-ups! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=zQzxKLc73ZgbE3_4Kk_O8K0YmhbSypYdrp-SZCcqOCM9SMg9z2sU X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin Hey guys! My Slashy Valentine 2012 (Tolkien fandom, all Ages, FPS only) s= ign-ups is going on its final week. If you were thinking of signing up, ple= ase do. We'd be happy to have you! Important Dates: Sign-up period: Decem= ber 3 - December 17 Assignments to be distributed no later than December 24= Deadline for first-time participants: February 1, 2012 Deadline for return= ing participants: February 8, 2012 Archive opens: February 14, 2012 Here's= the sign-up post and rules: http://slashy-santa.livejournal.com/66463.html= Come join us! The Slashy Mod From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3381 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51700 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2011 18:24:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m15.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2011 18:24:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2011 18:24:40 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2011 18:24:39 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2011 18:24:39 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 18:24:39 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Red" Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2012 - Last Call! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=vp9exNrgkLWYS7jiaWoJ-vm3_NoUPYn_zWBu36byUGs68XLceJBm X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin My Slashy Valentine 2012 (Tolkien fandom, all Ages, FPS only) sign-ups end = tonight at midnight. If you would like to receive a special fic tailored to= your prompts and write a reciprocal fic for someone else, sign up now whi= le it is still open! Important Dates: Sign-up period: December 3 - Decembe= r 17 Assignments to be distributed no later than December 24 Deadline for f= irst-time participants: February 1, 2012 Deadline for returning participant= s: February 8, 2012 Archive opens: February 14, 2012 Head on over to here:= http://community.livejournal.com/slashy_santa/59960.html Slashy Mod From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3382 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84928 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2012 18:56:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2012 18:56:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f171.google.com) (209.85.210.171) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2012 18:56:30 -0000 X-Received: by mail-iy0-f171.google.com with SMTP id w33so48160327iag.16 for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 10:56:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.190.196 with SMTP id gs4mr69044104igc.14.1325703389215; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 10:56:29 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.94.168 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jan 2012 10:56:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 13:56:29 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04479ee3977b5104b5b85fa3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: 2011 MEFA Results X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=oAemkRxs2eSclUPDYzKmRooW23X_-V2C2Vr-1NSaBBvziovaTn-p X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d04479ee3977b5104b5b85fa3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I am passing on the following message on behalf of Marta, the MEFA admin. A big congratulations to *everyone* who participated in this year's MEFAs! Volunteers, reviewers, authors--you all rock! :) Dawn --- I'm proud to announce the results for the 2011 Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards. We had a really strong set of nominations this year, and want to congratulate all of the authors whose pieces won awards. Check out the full list of stories that won awards, and also of commended reviewers: http://www.mefawards.org/**index.php?page=results You can also find the story information, access a link to where the story is posted, and read other peoples' reviews of any story by clicking the "Info" link next to it. While the MEFAs are finished for this year, fandom is the city that never sleeps and I am sure authors would appreciate your reviews at their archives, even if you didn't vote for them as part of our awards. Also: I'd like to thank all of our many volunteers who worked so hard to make this year's awards a success. I listed them at http://mefas.livejournal.com/**307066.html . If you know someone on this list, why not send them an attaboy to show them you appreciate their efforts? Finally: if you have suggestions about ways that we can improve the MEFAs for 2012, please email me at mefasupportATgmailDOTcom. We're always trying to improve, and while we can't act on every suggestion, we DEFINITELY can't fix problems we don't know about. Thanks to all who participated in whatever capacity, and here's to an even better 2012! Marta MEFA Admin. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d04479ee3977b5104b5b85fa3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am passing on the following message on behalf of Marta, the MEFA admin. A= big congratulations to everyone=C2=A0who participated in this year&= #39;s MEFAs! Volunteers, reviewers, authors--you all rock! :)

Dawn

---

I'm proud to announce the results for the 2011 Middle-earth F= anfiction Awards. We had a really strong set of nominations this year, and = want to congratulate all of the authors whose pieces won awards.

Check out the full list o= f stories that won awards, and also of commended reviewers:

http://www.= mefawards.org/index.php?page=3Dresults

You can also find the story information, access= a link to where the story is posted, and read other peoples' reviews o= f any story by clicking the "Info" link next to it. While the MEF= As are finished for this year, fandom is the city that never sleeps and I a= m sure authors would appreciate your reviews at their archives, even if you= didn't vote for them as part of our awards.
Also: I'd like to thank all of our ma= ny volunteers who worked so hard to make this year's awards a success. = I listed them at=C2=A0http://mefas.live= journal.com/307066.html=C2=A0. If you know so= meone on this list, why not send them an attaboy to show them you appreciat= e their efforts?

=
Thanks to all who participated in what= ever capacity, and here's to an even better 2012!

Marta
MEFA Admin.=C2= =A0

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/h= eretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d04479ee3977b5104b5b85fa3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3383 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75733 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2012 19:22:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m14.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2012 19:22:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f172.google.com) (209.85.210.172) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2012 19:22:32 -0000 X-Received: by iabz21 with SMTP id z21so7481437iab.17 for ; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 11:22:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.190.196 with SMTP id gs4mr16224259igc.14.1326050552080; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 11:22:32 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.242.103 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jan 2012 11:22:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 14:22:32 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04479ee31c6a8404b6093433 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Almost Forgot! January 2012 Newsletter Is Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=kUqer_Y262dQIoBXQ_EUSgRPrhl6JVfZra8FgLQjchuyHB6qiwEY X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d04479ee31c6a8404b6093433 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I almost forgot to announce that the January newsletter is up on our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/january2012.php My comods and I have written our annual New Years' letter to keep the group informed of where we hope to go in the next year. We've also included some tips on how to use the archive's Character list to find stories you want to read and ensure your story is being found by eager readers. Around the World and Web has announcements from groups outside of the SWG as well. (Special plug: I am working with some other Tolkien fans on a project to put together a Silmarillion-based podcast, and we are looking for folks who would be interested in participating. There are more details in the newsletter!) You can also find a list of all the stories, poems, and plays updated and finished during the month of December. Oshun took a well-deserved month off during December, and I wrote the character biography in her stead. I updated my earlier and very perfunctory "emergency" biography of Namo Mandos. He is a character who has invited intriguing and varied interpretations in Silmarillion-based fiction, and my research revealed him to have deep roots not only in Tolkien's legendarium but also in world mythology. We change challenges every three months, so this is the month for a new challenge for any writers or artists who care to accept it: It's All in the Numbers. This challenge asks participants to ponder how individuals and cultures in Arda utilized numbers. We're also revisiting the "Four Elements" challenge and have a new quote of the month, so if you need to kickstart the muses during the deep of winter (or the unrelenting heat of summer, for those of you in the south!), we encourage you to try one of the month's challenges! Thanks to Rhapsody for her help in putting the newsletter together (and for reminding me that I hadn't posted an announcement about it yet! :) My best wishes for a lovely New Year! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d04479ee31c6a8404b6093433 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I almost forgot to announce that the January ne= wsletter is up on our website:


My co= mods and I have written our annual New Years' letter to keep the group = informed of where we hope to go in the next year. We've also included s= ome tips on how to use the archive's=C2=A0Character list to find storie= s you want to read and ensure your story is being found by eager readers. A= round the World and Web has announcements from groups outside of the SWG as= well. (Special plug: I am working with some other Tolkien fans on a projec= t to put together a Silmarillion-based podcast, and we are looking for folk= s who would be interested in participating. There are more details in the n= ewsletter!) You can also find a list of all the stories, poems, and plays u= pdated and finished during the month of December.

Oshun took a well-deserved month off during December, and I wrote the char= acter biography in her stead. I updated my earlier and very perfunctory &qu= ot;emergency" biography of Namo Mandos. He is a character who has invi= ted intriguing and varied interpretations in Silmarillion-based fiction, an= d my research revealed him to have deep roots not only in Tolkien's leg= endarium but also in world mythology.

We change c= hallenges every three months, so this is the month for a new challenge for = any writers or artists who care to accept it: It's All in the Numbers. = This challenge asks participants to ponder how individuals and cultures in = Arda utilized numbers. We're also revisiting the "Four Elements&qu= ot; challenge and have a new quote of the month, so if you need to kickstar= t the muses during the deep of winter (or the unrelenting heat of summer, f= or those of you in the south!), we encourage you to try one of the month= 9;s challenges!

Thanks to Rhapsody for her help i= n putting the newsletter together (and for reminding me that I hadn't p= osted an announcement about it yet! :)

My best wis= hes for a lovely New Year!

Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org
--f46d04479ee31c6a8404b6093433-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3384 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25269 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2012 00:57:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m14.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2012 00:57:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f182.google.com) (209.85.210.182) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2012 00:57:41 -0000 X-Received: by iagz16 with SMTP id z16so5155638iag.41 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 16:57:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.157.131 with SMTP id wm3mr7644902igb.13.1327280260449; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 16:57:40 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.82.68 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 16:57:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:57:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f3ba1037105df04b7278499 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month (B2MeM) 2012 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mztIHxNHW30ciYh1wuabXvRXLnR4MpqcHiZylS2C-30cYVCkYcL6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f3ba1037105df04b7278499 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings all, Over the past few weeks, my comods on the SWG and MPTT have been working hard to put together this year's Back to Middle-earth Month event, and we are ready to announce the event at last! 2012 is the 75th anniversary of the publication of *The Hobbit,* the book that introduced the world to Middle-earth and paved the way for *The Lord of the Rings* and, eventually, the posthumous publication of *The Silmarillion, *among other books. In honor of this milestone, Bilbo Baggins' uncle Bingo Baggins has decided to do what Hobbits do best: throw a party! And what else to do at such a party than play BINGO? If you've never played BINGO, it's a straightforward game. Each player holds one or more cards containing 25 numbered squares. When a number on your card is called, you mark off that square. The first player to mark off five squares in a row (vertical, horizontal, or diagonal) wins the game. We will call a new number each day, throughout the month of March. Of course, we've added an extra twist: Before you can mark off your number, you will have to complete a challenge. Each card will have a theme, and you can claim the cards with themes that intrigue you the most. (For example, of the cards I've created already, themes include poetic forms, the sons of Feanor, and review challenges.) You can claim as many or as few cards as you want. B2MeM will begin in just over a month, and if it's going to be a fun challenge, then players will need a variety of cards to choose from. And this is where you can help us now. Anyone is invited to design BINGO cards for our game, so we hope many of you will challenge your fellow players by helping us to design cards! For more information on this year's event and how to get started, please see (and join!) our shiny new B2MeM community: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/483.html The SWG and MPTT--the groups hosting this year's event--also have B2MeM pages up on their site, where you can see the cards currently available, choose a participant banner, and learn more about how to get involved: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2012/ http://www.lotrgfic.com/viewpage.php?page=b2mem2012 As always, this is an event for the entire Tolkien fandom, not just members of the hosting groups. If you know other Tolkien fans or groups who might be interested in participating, please do pass the word along--all are welcome! Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f3ba1037105df04b7278499 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings all,

Over the past few weeks, my comods on the= SWG and MPTT have been working hard to put together this year's Back t= o Middle-earth Month event, and we are ready to announce the event at last!=

2012 is the 75th anniversary of the publication = of The Hobbit,=C2=A0the book that introduced the world to Middle-ear= th and paved the way for The Lord of the Rings=C2=A0and, eventually,= the posthumous publication of The Silmarillion, among other books. = In honor of this milestone, Bilbo Baggins' uncle Bingo Baggins has deci= ded to do what Hobbits do best: throw a party! And what else to do at such = a party than play BINGO?

If you've never play= ed BINGO, it's a straightforward game. Each player holds one or more ca= rds containing 25 numbered squares. When a number on your card is called, y= ou mark off that square. The first player to mark off five squares in a row= (vertical, horizontal, or diagonal) wins the game. We will call a new numb= er each day, throughout the month of March.

Of co= urse, we've added an extra twist: Before you can mark off your number, = you will have to complete a challenge. Each card will have a theme, and you= can claim the cards with themes that intrigue you the most. (For example, = of the cards I've created already, themes include poetic forms, the son= s of Feanor, and review challenges.) You can claim as many or as few cards = as you want.

B2MeM will begin in just over a mont= h, and if it's going to be a fun challenge, then players will need a va= riety of cards to choose from. And this is where you can help us now. Anyon= e is invited to design BINGO cards for our game, so we hope many of you wil= l challenge your fellow players by helping us to design cards!
<= br>
For more information on this year's event and how to get = started, please see (and join!) our shiny new B2MeM community:

The SWG and M= PTT--the groups hosting this year's event--also have B2MeM pages up on = their site, where you can see the cards currently available, choose a parti= cipant banner, and learn more about how to get involved:


As always, thi= s is an event for the entire Tolkien fandom, not just members of the hostin= g groups. If you know other Tolkien fans or groups who might be interested = in participating, please do pass the word along--all are welcome!

Best regards,

--e89a8f3ba1037105df04b7278499-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3385 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13193 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2012 02:20:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m16.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2012 02:20:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f182.google.com) (209.85.210.182) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2012 02:20:56 -0000 X-Received: by mail-iy0-f182.google.com with SMTP id o4so3686909iae.13 for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:20:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.165.135 with SMTP id k7mr1068075icy.32.1328149255271; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:20:55 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.237.68 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:20:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 21:20:55 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e8f7091b42c04b7f1d8e2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: February 2012 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YT9z-VPbZO1AUxhnkZms2vjxM32xW3Oy2kqPTuf6lJCT2TdOciW3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --90e6ba6e8f7091b42c04b7f1d8e2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No, your eyes do not deceive you--the February 2012 edition of the SWG news= letter is *on time* this month! And it has lots of new stuff worth a look. = http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2012.php Of course, = you will find news from within the SWG and beyond our borders. Back to Midd= le-earth Month (B2MeM) preparations are in full swing, as we have close to = three dozen BINGO cards created by participants and many people signed up t= o play in this year's event. I will be releasing another round of new cards= shortly, probably tomorrow, so stay tuned! Oshun has written another bang= -up biography on Rochallor. Wait ... Fingolfin's *horse*? Yes ... but do no= t let Rochallor's beastly nature deceive you; yet again, Oshun has gifted u= s with a well researched and thought-provoking biography, as she looks at R= ochallor's canonical role in his master's defiant and impetuous (totally Fi= nwion!) final stand against Melkor. She also points to the significance of = horses in heroic literature. Oshun does a consistently fabulous job on thes= e monthly biographies, and Rochallor's joins her impressive list of biograp= hies well worth a look. For those who have missed the Funnies section, we = have excellent news--Pandemonium's clever *Gothmog & Draugluin* comic is ba= ck this month! Professor Th=C3=BB and his Orcish assistant have just taken = over Tol Sirion and need to take stock of the place. Welcome back, G&D crew= --you have been missed! Many thanks to Oshun, Pandemonium, Rhapsody, and A= ngelica, our newsletter contributors who help keep SWG members informed and= entertained! Best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://t= hemidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org= --90e6ba6e8f7091b42c04b7f1d8e2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No, your eyes do not deceive you--the February 2012 edition of the SWG news= letter is on time=C2=A0this month! And it has lots of new stuff wort= h a look.

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/fe= bruary2012.php=C2=A0

Of course, you will find n= ews from within the SWG and beyond our borders. Back to Middle-earth Month = (B2MeM) preparations are in full swing, as we have close to three dozen BIN= GO cards created by participants and many people signed up to play in this = year's event. I will be releasing another round of new cards shortly, p= robably tomorrow, so stay tuned!

Oshun has writte= n another bang-up biography on Rochallor. Wait ... Fingolfin's horse= ? Yes ... but do not let Rochallor's beastly nature deceive you; ye= t again, Oshun has gifted us with a well researched and thought-provoking b= iography, as she looks at Rochallor's canonical role in his master'= s defiant and impetuous (totally Finwion!) final stand against Melkor. She = also points to the significance of horses in heroic literature. Oshun does = a consistently fabulous job on these monthly biographies, and Rochallor'= ;s joins her impressive list of biographies well worth a look.
<= font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
For those who have missed the Funnies sec= tion, we have excellent news--Pandemonium's clever Gothmog & Dra= ugluin=C2=A0comic is back this month! Professor Th=C3=BB=C2=A0and his Orcish assistant ha= ve just taken over Tol Sirion and need to take stock of the place. Welcome = back, G&D crew--you have been missed!

Many thanks to Oshun, Pandemonium, Rhapsody, and Angeli= ca, our newsletter contributors who help keep SWG members informed and ente= rtained!

=
Best regards = to all,

--90e6ba6e8f7091b42c04b7f1d8e2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3386 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10605 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2012 17:10:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2012 17:10:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ng4-ip1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.215.135) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2012 17:10:51 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1328461850; bh=1XIKIXL817K320KRowMYOhUBrl7el0yOa+F2Sl9/vbk=; h=Received:Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=O5jrW/gZ5KntS0K5VuCwmhOY59MTFvPC8YAHkz6PFNTID1qd8VfyVcn/ruGvWqZxLnjcYyK037WgtzZQwgNZNYrfPUG+YOByucJDkSLNxATvnLrhktYjesn2BMe77t8W Received: from [98.138.217.179] by ng4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2012 17:10:50 -0000 Received: from [69.147.65.151] by tg4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2012 17:10:49 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2012 17:10:49 -0000 X-Sender: p.temiz@yahoo.de X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29871 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2012 17:06:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m9.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2012 17:06:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng20-ip1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.215.120) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2012 17:06:45 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.217.182] by ng20.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2012 17:06:45 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.147] by tg7.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2012 17:06:45 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2012 17:06:44 -0000 Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2012 17:06:42 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "p.temiz" Subject: Maedhros decision to parley with Morgoth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321900051; y=u81oNBy5U81Tdf3b4hNUyYLdu_5A_U2Wqx92w8u_jcgW_A X-Yahoo-Profile: p.temiz X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 05 Feb 2012 17:10:47 -0000 Hello! I am new to the Yahoo Group of the Silmarillion Writers Guild. I am= a huge Tolkien fan since I read the The Lord of the Rings in the tender ag= e of 13. More than LotR, I love the Silmarillion. Especially, the story lin= es about Feanor and his seven sons with Nelyafinwe Maitimo Russandol being = my most favourite character. Since the Sil is rather short, I enjoy readi= ng good fanfiction. I loved Dawn Felagunds portrayal of the Feanorians in "= Another Mans Cage" and the stories of Ithilwen_of_Himring in particular. = I have no experience in writing but decided to try a story of my own concer= ning - yes :-) - the Feanorians as well. I had hoped the group could help m= e with some questions and humbly ask the masterminds for counsel. There i= s one issue I would like to discuss, namely the following paragraph in the = chapter "Of the return of the Noldor" in the Silmarillion. I quote: "But = even in the hour of the death of Fenanor an embassy came to his sons from M= orgoth, acknowledging defeat, and offering terms, even to the surrender of = a Silmaril. Then Maedhros the tall, the eldest son, persuaded his brothers = to feign to tret with Morgoth, and to meet his emissaries at the place appo= inted; but the Noldor had as little thought of faith as had he. Wherefore e= ach embassy came with greater force than was agreed; but Morgoth sent the m= ore, and there were Balrogs. Maedhros was ambushed, and all his company wer= e slain; but he himself was taken alive by the command of Morgoth, and brou= ght to Angband." So my problem is: Seriously, what was Maedhros thinking?= ? I mean, he knew it apparently that Morgoth was baiting him with a Silma= ril and couldnt possibly think he would show up himself or he was really se= nding a Silmaril with his emissiaries. So what was he hoping to gain? Even = if he really thought, he could beat Morgoths forces (which may be so as the= y nearly destroyed them in the preceding battles under the command of this = father or at least seriously damaged Morgoths might) what was to come next?= So he would have destroyed another of Morgoth forces. What benefit did he = hope to gain by putting himself in grave danger of being killed (or captiv= ated)? My thoughts on this issue... I think, though he seemed not as hot= -tempered as his father, he was probably also a bit arrogant/proud and ther= efore underestimated his foe. I think, he hoped - by baiting himself, the H= igh King of the Noldor after Feanors death - that Morgoth would send all hi= s remaining forces to capture him and therefore leaving Angband largely und= efended since the bulk of his army was marching against him. Then, defeatin= g the said force, he could march against Angband, now that a direct assault= against it walls bereft of its defenders would be more easy. What do you= think? Does this make sense and sound logic? Could he have argued similarl= y with his brothers and convinced them thus? A part of my story contains = a flashback where Maedhros discusses Morgoths offer with his brothers and c= onvinces them (save Maglor, who is sceptical). So I would very much appre= ciate if you would share your thoughts on this matter with me. Thank you = in advance. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3387 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10789 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2012 21:48:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2012 21:48:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f176.google.com) (209.85.210.176) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2012 21:48:25 -0000 X-Received: by iagz35 with SMTP id z35so8980389iag.7 for ; Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:48:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.57.234 with SMTP id l10mr18249756igq.12.1328478505397; Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:48:25 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.237.68 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Feb 2012 13:48:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 16:48:25 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae934111767ebb104b83e81c7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros decision to parley with Morgoth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=22dxoqb3BWfZ1CjGdXihvX1crwehYC7iRo5IomqvwMLqi2qsjK2v X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --14dae934111767ebb104b83e81c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Welcome to the SWG, P! :) > I mean, he knew it apparently that Morgoth was baiting him with a Silmaril I don't get from the passage that Maedhros knew Melkor intended to be unfaithful. (Although ... yeah, it's Melkor, so it's probably a reasonable assumption ... ;) What I get from "persuaded his brothers to feign to treat with Morgoth" isn't that Maedhros realized Melkor was plotting against him and convinced his brothers to go for it anyway but that Maedhros thought Melkor was sincere but planned to arrive with a larger force than agreed and to defeat Melkor utterly. To me, this makes sense because I don't see the Feanorians--on account of their oath and their justifiable loathing of Melkor--settling for anything less than total defeat of Melkor. They are going to seize any opportunity to do so and--coming hot off the heels of a kinslaying and abandonment of a large portion of Finwe's people--I don't think they'd have any scruples with lying to the Dark Lord. Now as to why Maedhros didn't realize the likelihood that Melkor wouldn't keep his promise--I don't think there are any clear answers to this, in the text anyway. This would be a good point to explore in a story. I think there's many possibilities, pride certainly being one of them, as you mention. > that Morgoth would send all his remaining forces to capture him and therefore leaving Angband largely undefended since the bulk of his army was marching against him. *snip* What do you think? Does this make sense and sound logic? I would have to be convinced as to why Melkor would need to clear out Angband to capture one Elf. That's not to say that I *couldn't* be convinced, but it would take some work on your part, as the author. What about Maedhros would make Melkor feel so threatened? I don't see it based on the texts. I mean, I think Maedhros is made of awesome ;), but if Melkor wasn't cowed by *Feanor*, then I don't think Maedhros will have much of an effect on him. My *personal* vision of that incident is that, after the Noldor soundly routed Melkor's forces, Maedhros underestimated Melkor's ability to muster the kind of force that he brought to their supposed parley. His confidence--or pride ;)--convinced him that any army Melkor could bring would be no match for the Noldor. He just didn't see reason to fear the "handful of leaves" left to Melkor. Melkor sent his messenger in the same hour as Feanor's death, giving Maedhros and his brothers little time for rational consideration; they were already on an emotional high, both from their success against Melkor and the spectacular death of their father. The two would have made a potent combination for seeking vengeance. Furthermore, Maedhros probably figured that, with the shattered remains of an army left to him, Melkor wouldn't be able to muster an assault against the Noldor in so short a time. That may have made him trust Melkor's word more than he would have been inclined to do otherwise. Again, this is my personal interpretation; I hope others share their thoughts too! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --14dae934111767ebb104b83e81c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Welcome to the SWG, P! :)

> I mean, he knew it apparently that Mo= rgoth was baiting him with a Silmaril

I don't get from the passa= ge that Maedhros knew Melkor intended to be unfaithful. (Although ... yeah,= it's Melkor, so it's probably a reasonable assumption ... ;) What = I get from "persuaded his brothers to feign to treat with Morgoth"= ; isn't that Maedhros realized Melkor was plotting against him and conv= inced his brothers to go for it anyway but that Maedhros thought Melkor was= sincere but planned to arrive with a larger force than agreed and to defea= t Melkor utterly. To me, this makes sense because I don't see the Feano= rians--on account of their oath and their justifiable loathing of Melkor--s= ettling for anything less than total defeat of Melkor. They are going to se= ize any opportunity to do so and--coming hot off the heels of a kinslaying = and abandonment of a large portion of Finwe's people--I don't think= they'd have any scruples with lying to the Dark Lord.

Now as t= o why Maedhros didn't realize the likelihood that Melkor wouldn't k= eep his promise--I don't think there are any clear answers to this, in = the text anyway. This would be a good point to explore in a story. I think = there's many possibilities, pride certainly being one of them, as you m= ention.

> that Morgoth would send all his remaining forces to ca= pture him and therefore leaving Angband largely undefended since the bulk = of his army was marching against him. *snip* What do you think? Does this = make sense and sound logic?

I would have to be convinced as to why M= elkor would need to clear out Angband to capture one Elf. That's not to= say that I couldn't be convinced, but it would take some work o= n your part, as the author. What about Maedhros would make Melkor feel so t= hreatened? I don't see it based on the texts. I mean, I think Maedhros = is made of awesome ;), but if Melkor wasn't cowed by Feanor, the= n I don't think Maedhros will have much of an effect on him.

My= personal vision of that incident is that, after the Noldor soundly = routed Melkor's forces, Maedhros underestimated Melkor's ability to= muster the kind of force that he brought to their supposed parley. His con= fidence--or pride ;)--convinced him that any army Melkor could bring would = be no match for the Noldor. He just didn't see reason to fear the "= ;handful of leaves" left to Melkor. Melkor sent his messenger in the s= ame hour as Feanor's death, giving Maedhros and his brothers little tim= e for rational consideration; they were already on an emotional high, both = from their success against Melkor and the spectacular death of their father= . The two would have made a potent combination for seeking vengeance. Furth= ermore, Maedhros probably figured that, with the shattered remains of an ar= my left to him, Melkor wouldn't be able to muster an assault against th= e Noldor in so short a time. That may have made him trust Melkor's word= more than he would have been inclined to do otherwise.

Again, this= is my personal interpretation; I hope others share their thoughts too! :)<= br>
Dawn


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorema= ster/
http://ww= w.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--14dae934111767ebb104b83e81c7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3388 Return-Path: X-Sender: gilgaladiell@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41929 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2012 01:35:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2012 01:35:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm12.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.183.186) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2012 01:35:11 -0000 X-Received: from [217.146.183.184] by nm12.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2012 01:35:10 -0000 X-Received: from [217.146.183.72] by tm15.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2012 01:35:10 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1033.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2012 01:35:10 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 611667.25601.bm@omp1033.mail.ukl.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 69238 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Feb 2012 01:35:10 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Wtcd5lEVM1lPFNZJTeVz20v7PjGUZ1.2KevdB6_WgIBv4vu fDEGtJT62M.uKRp7n_ylHZU2dxUQXhKoUPqkC0Aif5V8ydpxdzSzMmXAQGBU nve9YiA5pUYe6ijcyfJvLXCxTEJDwBVoHQYYkM9QEXXg4KOTJMJzHsgo_0P. HYMnMjaeL.sABRTqxGHqGwunLKPj8IE0VOwGQZPrk3GJZRXdphil.MvssR_l N.vCONlNZZ8n4lB.EQYup8UL8YCTZMRjvr6Y.BWVwabE1mH.DQobHLlLAmjr xeTLnerTFb0dgX6ysURupGOTiLcmjmAGcIStgUPTAIzMrviGLUiKdgYcPV0H UW7MDBCF23F4YV_CRZakGvEVbUsrz6lX9vzDW397Nc6uUa6h.e6d_S9eRjNY jmeLD7B3h3brNrdYBSpV4Y.UmEMcrKlVf.I03NRtebVXIeIc12076lbfD487 o X-Received: from [75.147.101.25] by web28213.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 01:35:10 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.116.331537 References: Message-ID: <1328492110.68594.YahooMailNeo@web28213.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 01:35:10 +0000 (GMT) To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-332380854-1372434754-1328492110=:68594" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Celebrian Helyanwe Reply-To: Celebrian Helyanwe Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Maedhros decision to parley with Morgoth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=155061945; y=CS1QxdLj2awaf9ygLtCkplq7B1VRSZ-Uavm1_yxLffFJkzXoMiEn X-Yahoo-Profile: gilgaladiell ---332380854-1372434754-1328492110=:68594 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Now as to why Maedhros didn't realize the likelihood that Melkor wouldn't = keep his promise--I don't think there are any clear answers to this, in the= text anyway. This >would be a good point to explore in a story. I think th= ere's many possibilities, pride certainly being one of them, as you mention= . >My personal vision of that incident is that, after the Noldor soundly = routed Melkor's forces, Maedhros underestimated Melkor's ability to muster = the kind of force that he >brought to their supposed parley. His confidence= --or pride ;)--convinced him that any army Melkor could bring would be no m= atch for the Noldor. He just didn't see reason >to fear the "handful of lea= ves" left to Melkor. Melkor sent his messenger in the same hour as Feanor's= death, giving Maedhros and his brothers little time for rational >consider= ation; they were already on an emotional high, both from their success agai= nst Melkor and the spectacular death of their father. The two would have ma= de a potent >combination for seeking vengeance. Furthermore, Maedhros proba= bly figured that, with the shattered remains of an army left to him, Melkor= wouldn't be able to muster an >assault against the Noldor in so short a ti= me. That may have made him trust Melkor's word more than he would have bee= n inclined to do otherwise. =A0There was probably a lot of rage involved.= =A0I would hazard that that was the driving influence behind Maedhros' dec= ision. =A0Plus, if his plan had worked, the quest would have been over righ= t then. =A0Surely Feanor was not the only elf that died in that battle. =A0= Who knows how many other close friends they lost? =A0I think Maedhros would= prefer to minimize the elven deaths involved. =A0Moreover, Maedhros strike= s me as the "dutiful son" type. =A0His father just died trying to accomplis= h what he sees a chance to achieve. =A0There's nothing else he can do for h= is father, and brothers, really, than fulfill their oath. =A0We certainly s= ee later on how aware he was of the consequences they faced for failing. = =A0He would want to spare his father undying darkness (or whatever the exac= t wording was -- it's been too long since I read that book).=A0 And that in= addition to the death of Finwe back in the Undying Lands and the fact that= Morgoth stole pretty much everything of value that they had -- ok, all th= e jewels, but I would infer from that that whatever he left would have been= of significantly lesser value. Cel ---332380854-1372434754-1328492110=:68594 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>Now as to wh= y Maedhros didn't realize the likelihood that Melkor wouldn't keep his prom= ise--I don't think there are any clear answers to this, in the text anyway.= This >would be a good point to explore in a story. I think there's many= possibilities, pride certainly being one of them, as you mention.

>My personal vision of that incident is that, after th= e Noldor soundly routed Melkor's forces, Maedhros underestimated Melkor's a= bility to muster the kind of force that he >brought to their supposed pa= rley. His confidence--or pride ;)--convinced him that any army Melkor could= bring would be no match for the Noldor. He just didn't see reason >to f= ear the "handful of leaves" left to Melkor. Melkor sent his messenger in th= e same hour as Feanor's death, giving Maedhros and his brothers little time= for rational >consideration; they were already on an emotional high, bo= th from their success against Melkor and the spectacular death of their fat= her. The two would have made a potent >combination for seeking vengeance= . Furthermore, Maedhros probably figured that, with the shattered remains o= f an army left to him, Melkor wouldn't be able to muster an >assault aga= inst the Noldor in so short a time. That may have made him trust Melkor's = word more than he would have been inclined to do otherwise.

=
 There was probably a lot of rage involved.  I would hazard = that that was the driving influence behind Maedhros' decision.  Plus, = if his plan had worked, the quest would have been over right then.  Su= rely Feanor was not the only elf that died in that battle.  Who knows = how many other close friends they lost?  I think Maedhros would prefer= to minimize the elven deaths involved.  Moreover, Maedhros strikes me= as the "dutiful son" type.  His father just died trying to accomplish= what he sees a chance to achieve.  There's nothing else he can do for= his father, and brothers, really, than fulfill their oath.  We certai= nly see later on how aware he was of the consequences they faced for failin= g.  He would want to spare his father undying darkness (or whatever th= e exact wording was -- it's been too long since I read that book).  An= d that in addition to the death of Finwe back in the Undying Lands and the= fact that Morgoth stole pretty much everything of value that they had -- o= k, all the jewels, but I would infer from that that whatever he left would = have been of significantly lesser value.

Cel
=
---332380854-1372434754-1328492110=:68594-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3389 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 63903 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2012 20:35:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m16.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2012 20:35:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ng10-vm5.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.136.219.122) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2012 20:35:43 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1328646942; bh=naIb1OrILQkzEJQ/gFi5W3DQk79ma9OCKBC9um1go3E=; h=Received:Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=sC6vBoWbTKNk6l6Vkp6srFG0cm2frEeCLQEgq9YF17t7vqEPiyhqxaz/CNorcXurR+FDlko3gC3tG/W1D51kqORyvGzplv/o9Imm3uzzw6x9Pl3Yn6l7r/RScMKFsn3U Received: from [98.137.0.82] by ng10.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2012 20:35:42 -0000 Received: from [69.147.65.151] by tg2.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2012 20:35:42 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.35] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2012 20:35:41 -0000 X-Sender: p.temiz@yahoo.de X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52048 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2012 20:34:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2012 20:34:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng8-ip2.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.165.58) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2012 20:34:23 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.164.125] by ng8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2012 20:34:22 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by tg6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2012 20:34:22 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2012 20:34:22 -0000 Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:34:22 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "p.temiz" Subject: Re: Maedhros decision to parley with Morgoth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=321900051; y=io9sK0yiGZQcE87hCaYhOPfz13X_H3x7jooCRFboU0s4vA X-Yahoo-Profile: p.temiz X-eGroups-Approved-By: dawnfelagund via web; 07 Feb 2012 20:35:41 -0000 Hello, Dawn! I appreciate your answer very much! As I mentioned before,= I love your story "Another Mans cage". I am rereading it for the third tim= e now. Love it, how you portrayed each character in a way, which is so very= believable. I deeply admire your talents as a writer and your amazing crea= tivity. Hope you will continue to write your genius stories (especially con= cerning Maitimio ;-)). Concerning my question=85 So you basically say, = that Maedhros indeed believed Morgoth=B4s offer for surrendering since he b= elieved him defeated and near his end and intended to seize the opportunity= to destroy Morgoth entirely by taking a much larger host with him and taki= ng all three of the Silmarils. But that would also mean, that he also belie= ved, that Morgoth would show up himself, wearing all stones in his iron cro= wn. Otherwise, he could just hope to gain just one of the Silmarils as agre= ed upon sended with emissiaries. So you think, Maedhros also believed Mor= goth to come to the parley as well, like himself as the leader of the Noldo= r? Another question=85 could it be possible, that the fact, that Morgoth = offered just one of the Silmarils, made his offer more believable? Maedhros= might have thought, that Morgoth underestimated the Noldor and sought to b= uy himself some time to gather his strength by showing his good will in sur= rendering one of the Silmarils. Another point is also, that even he belie= ved it to be a trap, as he was plotting one himself, he didn=B4t think Morg= oth to be capable of overrunning the Noldorin forces and so didn't think th= e parley to be too dangerous. My last thought concerns also the following= point=85 do you think he also acted quickly as he wanted to spare his fath= er the everlasting darkness? I don't have it in my mind clearly, but I thin= k, the oath contained some words which spoke of the everlasting darkness if= it wouldn't be fulfilled=85 I hope, I could explain, what I mean=85 as y= ou clearly may have noticed, English is not my mother tongue . You= may call be Pervin, by the way ;-). --- In SilmarillionWritersGuild@ya= hoogroups.com, Dawn Felagund wrote: > > Welcome to the S= WG, P! :) > > > I mean, he knew it apparently that Morgoth was baiting him= with a Silmaril > > I don't get from the passage that Maedhros knew Melko= r intended to be > unfaithful. (Although ... yeah, it's Melkor, so it's pro= bably a reasonable > assumption ... ;) What I get from "persuaded his broth= ers to feign to treat > with Morgoth" isn't that Maedhros realized Melkor w= as plotting against him > and convinced his brothers to go for it anyway bu= t that Maedhros thought > Melkor was sincere but planned to arrive with a l= arger force than agreed > and to defeat Melkor utterly. To me, this makes s= ense because I don't see > the Feanorians--on account of their oath and the= ir justifiable loathing of > Melkor--settling for anything less than total = defeat of Melkor. They are > going to seize any opportunity to do so and--c= oming hot off the heels of a > kinslaying and abandonment of a large portio= n of Finwe's people--I don't > think they'd have any scruples with lying to= the Dark Lord. > > Now as to why Maedhros didn't realize the likelihood t= hat Melkor wouldn't > keep his promise--I don't think there are any clear a= nswers to this, in the > text anyway. This would be a good point to explore= in a story. I think > there's many possibilities, pride certainly being on= e of them, as you > mention. > > > that Morgoth would send all his remaini= ng forces to capture him and > therefore leaving Angband largely undefended= since the bulk of his army was > marching against him. *snip* What do you = think? Does this make sense and > sound logic? > > I would have to be conv= inced as to why Melkor would need to clear out > Angband to capture one Elf= . That's not to say that I *couldn't* be > convinced, but it would take som= e work on your part, as the author. What > about Maedhros would make Melkor= feel so threatened? I don't see it based > on the texts. I mean, I think M= aedhros is made of awesome ;), but if Melkor > wasn't cowed by *Feanor*, th= en I don't think Maedhros will have much of an > effect on him. > > My *pe= rsonal* vision of that incident is that, after the Noldor soundly > routed = Melkor's forces, Maedhros underestimated Melkor's ability to muster > the k= ind of force that he brought to their supposed parley. His > confidence--or= pride ;)--convinced him that any army Melkor could bring > would be no mat= ch for the Noldor. He just didn't see reason to fear the > "handful of leav= es" left to Melkor. Melkor sent his messenger in the same > hour as Feanor'= s death, giving Maedhros and his brothers little time for > rational consid= eration; they were already on an emotional high, both from > their success = against Melkor and the spectacular death of their father. The > two would h= ave made a potent combination for seeking vengeance. > Furthermore, Maedhro= s probably figured that, with the shattered remains of > an army left to hi= m, Melkor wouldn't be able to muster an assault against > the Noldor in so = short a time. That may have made him trust Melkor's word > more than he wou= ld have been inclined to do otherwise. > > Again, this is my personal inte= rpretation; I hope others share their > thoughts too! :) > > Dawn > > > = -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ >= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3390 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74755 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2012 02:23:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m9.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2012 02:23:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-tul01m020-f178.google.com) (209.85.214.178) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2012 02:23:32 -0000 X-Received: by obbuo19 with SMTP id uo19so174683obb.23 for ; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 18:23:31 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.231.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.182.231.41; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.231.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dawnfelagund@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Received: from mr.google.com ([10.182.231.41]) by 10.182.231.41 with SMTP id td9mr1225101obc.22.1330568611704 (num_hops = 1); Wed, 29 Feb 2012 18:23:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.231.41 with SMTP id td9mr1054915obc.22.1330568611631; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 18:23:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 18:23:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 21:23:31 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0446310a72128404ba252587 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM Day One! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=zUvDw6EwWh6QU94ReSEcT0cztkp0zlgcRp6gM4exIA0OW5zZVGYq X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0446310a72128404ba252587 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Well, it's that crazy time of year again--Back to Middle-earth Month! I posted a few weeks ago about this year's event; we're playing BINGO, fandom-style! Every day, we'll be calling a number that participants match up to prompts on their BINGO cards. Create something for one or more of that day's prompts and receive stamps on your cards in a quest to be the first to reach BINGO! Today's number is *I18*. Participants have until roughly 11:59 PM GMT to make a significant start on any prompts that match this number in order to claim stamps. If you're participating, please claim your stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/5183.html If you're interested in learning more about this year's event (it's not too late to sign up!), both the SWG and MPTT have more information: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2012/ http://www.lotrgfic.com/viewpage.php?page=b2mem2012 Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0446310a72128404ba252587 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, it's that crazy time of year again--Back to Middle-earth Month! I= posted a few weeks ago about this year's event; we're playing BING= O, fandom-style! Every day, we'll be calling a number that participants= match up to prompts on their BINGO cards. Create something for one or more= of that day's prompts and receive stamps on your cards in a quest to b= e the first to reach BINGO!

Today's number is I1= 8. Participants have until roughly 11:59 PM GMT to make a significant s= tart on any prompts that match this number in order to claim stamps.
<= div>
If you're participating, please claim your stamps he= re:=C2=A0 http://b2mem.l= ivejournal.com/5183.html

If you're interes= ted in learning more about this year's event (it's not too late to = sign up!), both the SWG and MPTT have more information:


Happy wri= ting! :)

--f46d0446310a72128404ba252587-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3391 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4630 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2012 01:03:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2012 01:03:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-tul01m020-f179.google.com) (209.85.214.179) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2012 01:03:58 -0000 X-Received: by obbup3 with SMTP id up3so1453438obb.38 for ; Thu, 01 Mar 2012 17:03:54 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.15.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.182.15.5; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.15.5 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dawnfelagund@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Received: from mr.google.com ([10.182.15.5]) by 10.182.15.5 with SMTP id t5mr2992275obc.2.1330650234769 (num_hops = 1); Thu, 01 Mar 2012 17:03:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.15.5 with SMTP id t5mr2595692obc.2.1330650234667; Thu, 01 Mar 2012 17:03:54 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Mar 2012 17:03:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 20:03:54 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0447886d8ec41804ba382624 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: Today's Bingo Number Is O72 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=n-q637iCnl3Uo8u1wKWXK6WI-rHgnzDHDiqm3tlfFdmnDZ7EOvQ9 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0447886d8ec41804ba382624 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today is O72. In order to claim stamps for these prompts, you must make a significant start on your piece(s) by roughly 11:59 GMT on March 3. Please claim your stamps on this post (or email me directly if LJ doesn't play nice for you :)-- http://b2mem.livejournal.com/10011.html Additionally, there is still the better part of a day left for yesterday's number, I18. Responses for these prompts should be started and reported by 11:59 PM March 2. If you're just joining us and want more information on how to get involved in B2MeM: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2012/ Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0447886d8ec41804ba382624 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today is O72. In order to = claim stamps for these prompts, you must make a significant start on your p= iece(s) by roughly 11:59 GMT on March 3. Please claim your stamps on this p= ost (or email me directly if LJ doesn't play nice for you :)--


Additionall= y, there is still the better part of a day left for yesterday's number,= I18. Responses for these prompts should be started and reported by 11:59 P= M March 2.

If you're just joining us and want= more information on how to get involved in B2MeM:

http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/b2mem2012/

Happy= writing! :)

Dawn
--f46d0447886d8ec41804ba382624-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3392 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36541 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2012 23:30:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2012 23:30:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-tul01m020-f173.google.com) (209.85.214.173) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2012 23:30:08 -0000 X-Received: by obbup6 with SMTP id up6so3617740obb.18 for ; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:30:08 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.231.97 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.182.231.97; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.231.97 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dawnfelagund@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Received: from mr.google.com ([10.182.231.97]) by 10.182.231.97 with SMTP id tf1mr4876255obc.32.1330731008513 (num_hops = 1); Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:30:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.231.97 with SMTP id tf1mr4187891obc.32.1330731008441; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:30:08 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 15:30:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 18:30:08 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0447a03d0cbe9404ba4af55b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: Bingo Number for March 3 is N43 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ZvN8ct40LHZAKIOCSyd4I0Ppspf8oSpd13A4mMmWuyDv0y0tPYAQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0447a03d0cbe9404ba4af55b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Today's BINGO number is N43. You have until roughly 11:59 PM GMT on March 4 to begin your responses to your prompts. Please comment on this LJ post to claim your stamps: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/19655.html In addition, there is still one day left to respond to yesterday's number, O72. Please respond to this post to claim your stamps for O72: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/10011.html All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0447a03d0cbe9404ba4af55b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Today's BINGO number is N43. You have until= roughly 11:59 PM GMT on March 4 to begin your responses to your prompts.

Please comment on this LJ post to claim your stamps= :


I= n addition, there is still one day left to respond to yesterday's numbe= r, O72. Please respond to this post to claim your stamps for O72:


All the best= ,
= --f46d0447a03d0cbe9404ba4af55b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3393 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53561 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2012 00:49:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2012 00:49:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-tul01m020-f182.google.com) (209.85.214.182) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2012 00:49:02 -0000 X-Received: by obbwc7 with SMTP id wc7so6189458obb.27 for ; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 16:49:02 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.1.1 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.182.1.1; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.1.1 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dawnfelagund@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Received: from mr.google.com ([10.182.1.1]) by 10.182.1.1 with SMTP id 1mr1267355obi.32.1330822142067 (num_hops = 1); Sat, 03 Mar 2012 16:49:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.1.1 with SMTP id 1mr1141730obi.32.1330822141996; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 16:49:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 16:49:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 19:49:01 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0447a077086d5804ba602def X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: BINGO Number for March 4 Is I22 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=INQlRksBO_9Vlw628KP5KCgBMBm6Mx-Uf9KJCV4nGfFiUHyqttBo X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0447a077086d5804ba602def Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Today's BINGO number is I22. In order to claim stamps for this number, you should start and report your responses by roughly 11:59 PM GMT on March 5. (The deadline will actually go a bit later for this one since I was about a half-hour late posting the number tonight.) Please report when you've made a significant start on your responses here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/29317.html Or send us an email at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org with the names of the cards you need stamped. In addition, there is still one day left to begin your responses for yesterday's number, N43. Please request your stamps on this post (or by emailing us at the address above): http://b2mem.livejournal.com/19655.html Happy writing, everyone! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0447a077086d5804ba602def Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Today's BINGO number is I22. In order = to claim stamps for this number, you should start and report your responses= by roughly 11:59 PM GMT on March 5. (The deadline will actually go a bit l= ater for this one since I was about a half-hour late posting the number ton= ight.) Please report when you've made a significant start on your respo= nses here:


Or send us an email at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT or= g with the names of the cards you need stamped.

I= n addition, there is still one day left to begin your responses for yesterd= ay's number, N43. Please request your stamps on this post (or by emaili= ng us at the address above):


Happy writing, everyone! :)

<= div>Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens= .net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0447a077086d5804ba602def-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3394 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81487 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2012 22:59:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m9.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2012 22:59:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-tul01m020-f173.google.com) (209.85.214.173) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2012 22:59:33 -0000 X-Received: by mail-tul01m020-f173.google.com with SMTP id up6so5327298obb.18 for ; Sun, 04 Mar 2012 14:59:32 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.60.0.195 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.60.0.195; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.60.0.195 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dawnfelagund@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Received: from mr.google.com ([10.60.0.195]) by 10.60.0.195 with SMTP id 3mr7054273oeg.2.1330901972965 (num_hops = 1); Sun, 04 Mar 2012 14:59:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.0.195 with SMTP id 3mr6195067oeg.2.1330901972894; Sun, 04 Mar 2012 14:59:32 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Mar 2012 14:59:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 17:59:32 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: Bingo Number for March 5 Is N68 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=q8QJS4SZVd5Lvl1i35xoCRNEmGSa6n8yoN1XmcC-ENOTWB7sJ02r X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, everyone, The BINGO number for today, March 5, is N68. You have two days (48 hours) to begin your responses to today's prompts. When you make a satisfactory (in your opinion! :) start, please comment on this post to request your stamps: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/36513.html or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. One day also remains on March 4's number, I22. Once you satisfactorily begin a prompt for this number, please report it here or at the email above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/29317.html All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3395 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95363 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2012 23:05:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m9.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2012 23:05:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-tul01m020-f172.google.com) (209.85.214.172) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2012 23:05:02 -0000 X-Received: by obbta4 with SMTP id ta4so1369387obb.3 for ; Sun, 04 Mar 2012 15:05:01 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.12.6 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.182.12.6; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.12.6 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dawnfelagund@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Received: from mr.google.com ([10.182.12.6]) by 10.182.12.6 with SMTP id u6mr7443306obb.12.1330902301008 (num_hops = 1); Sun, 04 Mar 2012 15:05:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.12.6 with SMTP id u6mr6520719obb.12.1330902300960; Sun, 04 Mar 2012 15:05:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Mar 2012 15:05:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 18:05:00 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: CORRECTION: B2MeM Number Is O68 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=v-Z9ydOZT51LXR5gp6zIGxwUzrcb3898MQLVjtEPjImVmWuXaNq0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, It's been a long day! :D The number for today is O68. It would have been a quiet day for the challenge mods with N68 ... that number doesn't even exist in BINGO! :) Thanks to those of you who caught the error and let me know. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3396 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61873 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2012 23:49:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2012 23:49:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-tul01m020-f178.google.com) (209.85.214.178) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2012 23:49:04 -0000 X-Received: by obbuo19 with SMTP id uo19so6793611obb.23 for ; Mon, 05 Mar 2012 15:49:03 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.60.26.133 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.60.26.133; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.60.26.133 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dawnfelagund@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Received: from mr.google.com ([10.60.26.133]) by 10.60.26.133 with SMTP id l5mr8759277oeg.22.1330991343955 (num_hops = 1); Mon, 05 Mar 2012 15:49:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.26.133 with SMTP id l5mr7672059oeg.22.1330991343875; Mon, 05 Mar 2012 15:49:03 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Mar 2012 15:49:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 18:49:03 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb206b64035ac04ba8792e0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: Today's BINGO Number Is O67 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KasoxIKXvYyJVzIuG5lVJkUhzyF0P2DvKgwQEoOAILocbgq-5u9Q X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8fb206b64035ac04ba8792e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, The BINGO number for March 6 is O67. You'll have until at least 11:59 PM GMT on March 7 to make a significant start on these prompts and claim your stamps. Please comment here to claim your stamps for O67: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/50101.html or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. In addition, there is still one day left on March 5's number, O68. Please comment here (or email us at the address above) to claim stamps for O68: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/36513.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8fb206b64035ac04ba8792e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

The BINGO number for March 6 is O67. You'll have u= ntil at least 11:59 PM GMT on March 7 to make a significant start on these = prompts and claim your stamps. Please comment here to claim your stamps for= O67:

http://b2= mem.livejournal.com/50101.html

or email us at moderator AT silma= rillionwritersguild DOT org.

In addition, there is still one day lef= t on March 5's number, O68. Please comment here (or email us at the add= ress above) to claim stamps for O68:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/36513.html

Ha= ppy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felag= und
http://themi= dhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8fb206b64035ac04ba8792e0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3397 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53601 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2012 23:10:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2012 23:10:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-tul01m020-f170.google.com) (209.85.214.170) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2012 23:10:10 -0000 X-Received: by obbwd1 with SMTP id wd1so6471427obb.15 for ; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 15:10:09 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.1.1 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.182.1.1; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dawnfelagund@gmail.com designates 10.182.1.1 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dawnfelagund@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Received: from mr.google.com ([10.182.1.1]) by 10.182.1.1 with SMTP id 1mr6082445obi.32.1331075409865 (num_hops = 1); Tue, 06 Mar 2012 15:10:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.1.1 with SMTP id 1mr5368984obi.32.1331075409739; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 15:10:09 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Mar 2012 15:10:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:10:09 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0447a077f780cb04ba9b241a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: The BINGO Number for March 7 Is ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=44gUov1L2rZXhx3_lUE2jbPkqRIDjV8ltL73ubhrmdtHoqp4v9Jx X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0447a077f780cb04ba9b241a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Yes, I am withholding today's number for the moment in a transparent attempt at suspense and to request a moment's attention from participants. :) Then back to Back to Middle-earth Madness! :) Who thinks the B2MeM stampers are doing a fabulous job? I certainly do--so I would like to declare today Love Your Stampers Day! As part of Love Your Stampers Day, I'd like to offer some gentle reminders of how to make your stampers' considerable task just a teensy bit easier. Because--with almost 90 participants this year and OMG-I-don't-even-want-to-hazard-a-guess number of cards to manage--the stampers certainly appreciate every effort to keep their jobs as painless as possible. **Unless your LJ handle is *exactly* the same as the name you're using for B2MeM, don't forget your name on your comment. Yes, we can figure out that Lady Dawn and Dawn Felagund are the same person, but when skimming dozens of comments for her assigned players, it becomes very easy for a stamper to overlook a name that doesn't fall into the range of alphabet she's been assigned. **Please list the names of the *cards* that you need stamped. If you want to include the prompts as well, you certainly can, but we don't need this information. Just your name and the names of the cards you need stamped. **If you're requesting stamps for two different numbers, please comment on both posts with the respective stamps that you need. So if you wrote a story including prompts for both O68 and O67, kindly put your requests for the O68 stamps on the O68 post, and your request for the O67 stamps on the O67 post. And now today's BINGO number ... is B10. You will have until at least 11:59PM GMT on March 8 to make a significant start on B10 prompts and request your stamps. Please request stamps on this post here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/59411.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Yesterday's number, O67, is still active for another day. You can request your stamps for O67 here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/50101.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0447a077f780cb04ba9b241a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I am withholding today's number for the moment in a transparent a= ttempt at suspense and to request a moment's attention from participan= ts. :) Then back to Back to Middle-earth Madness! :)

Who thinks the= B2MeM stampers are doing a fabulous job? I certainly do--so I would like = to declare today Love Your Stampers Day! As part of Love Your Stampers Day= , I'd like to offer some gentle reminders of how to make your stampers= ' considerable task just a teensy bit easier. Because--with almost 90 = participants this year and OMG-I-don't-even-want-to-hazard-a-guess num= ber of cards to manage--the stampers certainly appreciate every effort to = keep their jobs as painless as possible.

**Unless your LJ handle is= exactly the same as the name you're using for B2MeM, don'= ;t forget your name on your comment. Yes, we can figure out that Lady Dawn= and Dawn Felagund are the same person, but when skimming dozens of commen= ts for her assigned players, it becomes very easy for a stamper to overloo= k a name that doesn't fall into the range of alphabet she's been a= ssigned.

**Please list the names of the cards that= you need stamped. If you want to include the prompts as well, you certain= ly can, but we don't need this information. Just your name and the nam= es of the cards you need stamped.

**If you're requesting stamps= for two different numbers, please comment on both posts with the respecti= ve stamps that you need. So if you wrote a story including prompts for bot= h O68 and O67, kindly put your requests for the O68 stamps on the O68 post= , and your request for the O67 stamps on the O67 post.

And now toda= y's BINGO number ...

is B10. You will have until at least 11:59P= M GMT on March 8 to make a significant start on B10 prompts and request you= r stamps. Please request stamps on this post here:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/59411.html=

or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild D= OT org.

Yesterday's number, O67, is still active for another day= . You can request your stamps for O67 here:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/50101.html
Happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Daw= n Felagund
http:= //themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0447a077f780cb04ba9b241a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3398 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8156 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2012 00:10:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2012 00:10:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-tul01m020-f173.google.com) (209.85.214.173) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2012 00:10:44 -0000 X-Received: by obbup6 with SMTP id up6so10928054obb.18 for ; Wed, 07 Mar 2012 16:10:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.0.195 with SMTP id 3mr1723061oeg.2.1331165444087; Wed, 07 Mar 2012 16:10:44 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 16:10:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 19:10:44 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1ede06ea08604bab01b23 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: The Bingo Number for March 8 Is N41 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rTO8cmkxYb1mnP5qfrtBMm-4f8o6dEGj1v9EYjfBpnsraQYrhnhM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8fb1ede06ea08604bab01b23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Today's BINGO number is N41. As usual, you will have 48 hours to make a significant start on something for this prompt and report it to us. We will stop accepting new stamp requests for N41 at roughly 11:59 PM GMT on March 9. Please request your stamps on this post: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/66390.html or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. There is also one day left to start and claim stamps for yesterday's number, B10. Please request those stamps on this post or at the email above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/59411.html Happy writing, everyone! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8fb1ede06ea08604bab01b23 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

Today's BINGO number is N41. As usual, you will ha= ve 48 hours to make a significant start on something for this prompt and re= port it to us. We will stop accepting new stamp requests for N41 at roughly= 11:59 PM GMT on March 9. Please request your stamps on this post:

= http://b2mem.livejourna= l.com/66390.html

or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwriters= guild DOT org.

There is also one day left to start and claim stamps = for yesterday's number, B10. Please request those stamps on this post o= r at the email above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/59411.html

Happy writing, ev= eryone! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhave= ns.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8fb1ede06ea08604bab01b23-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3399 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86460 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2012 22:54:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2012 22:54:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-tul01m020-f171.google.com) (209.85.214.171) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2012 22:54:04 -0000 X-Received: by mail-tul01m020-f171.google.com with SMTP id x4so1610922obh.30 for ; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 14:54:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.29.166 with SMTP id l6mr875oeh.12.1331247244194; Thu, 08 Mar 2012 14:54:04 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Mar 2012 14:54:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 17:54:04 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff2429f19327504bac327c1 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 9's BINGO Number Is O65 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=lnC4E-MedCPepHRPB1jqpVINusbxtHDf6XpLrZuFMrdchIUT5hJ3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff2429f19327504bac327c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Today's BINGO number is O65. You have until at least 11:59 PM GMT on March 10 to make a significant start on your prompts and request your stamps. Please request your stamps on this post: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/73187.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. There is also one day left for yesterday's number, N41. To request your stamps for N41, please visit this post or email us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/66390.html All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff2429f19327504bac327c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Today's BINGO number is O65. You have until at least 11= :59 PM GMT on March 10 to make a significant start on your prompts and requ= est your stamps. Please request your stamps on this post:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/7318= 7.html

or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwriters= guild DOT org.

There is also one day left for yesterday's number= , N41. To request your stamps for N41, please visit this post or email us a= t the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/66390.html

All the best,
<= br>Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_= loremaster/
htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8ff2429f19327504bac327c1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3400 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14430 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2012 22:24:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m14.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2012 22:24:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-yx0-f171.google.com) (209.85.213.171) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2012 22:24:22 -0000 X-Received: by yenl11 with SMTP id l11so1455579yen.30 for ; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 14:24:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.12.6 with SMTP id u6mr1584057obb.12.1331331861099; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 14:24:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 14:24:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 17:24:21 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0444edd3a8b52a04bad6dab0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 10's Bingo Number Is B7 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Vyl1oMe9UEhmj1Rhrje3E3x-NkQxRU1n2g3eJcpqdquX7_s9UXL- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0444edd3a8b52a04bad6dab0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 10, is B7. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any B7 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B7 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 11. Please request your B7 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/80922.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, O65, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for O65 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/73187.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0444edd3a8b52a04bad6dab0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 10, is B7. You have 48 ho= urs to make a significant start on any B7 prompts and send us a post/email = requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B7 stamps at ap= proximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 11. Please request your B7 stamps here:
http://b2mem.liv= ejournal.com/80922.html

or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org.

In addition, yesterday's number, O65, will be active for on= e more day. Please request your stamps for O65 on this post or by emailing = us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/73187.html

Happy writing!= :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/= heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0444edd3a8b52a04bad6dab0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3401 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55317 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2012 03:19:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m9.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2012 03:19:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f173.google.com) (209.85.210.173) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2012 03:19:20 -0000 X-Received: by iafj26 with SMTP id j26so5752193iaf.32 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2012 19:19:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.12.6 with SMTP id u6mr3479450obb.12.1331435959915; Sat, 10 Mar 2012 19:19:19 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sat, 10 Mar 2012 19:19:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 22:19:19 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0444edd36e95e904baef17fd X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 11's BINGO Number Is N33 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=UdjPZ8rxTzxqVjdv460m1I4wvKBxy04I3BNAyPzepJNkvu8NOztR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0444edd36e95e904baef17fd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all The BINGO number for today, March 11, is N33. You have two days to make a significant start on responses to these prompts and request your stamps. Please request your stamps on this post: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/87059.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. In addition, there is still about one day left for March 10's number, B7. If you wish to request stamps for B7, please comment on this post or email the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/80922.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0444edd36e95e904baef17fd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all

The BINGO number for today, March 11, is N33. You have two d= ays to make a significant start on responses to these prompts and request y= our stamps. Please request your stamps on this post:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/87059.htm= l

or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild= DOT org.

In addition, there is still about one day left for March 1= 0's number, B7. If you wish to request stamps for B7, please comment on= this post or email the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/80922.html

= Happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fel= agund
http://the= midhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0444edd36e95e904baef17fd-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3402 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31767 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2012 18:57:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2012 18:57:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gx0-f171.google.com) (209.85.161.171) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2012 18:57:56 -0000 X-Received: by ggcs5 with SMTP id s5so2374850ggc.30 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 11:57:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.0.195 with SMTP id 3mr5171021oeg.2.1331492276156; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 11:57:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 11:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 14:57:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1ede024390304bafc3455 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: Daylight Savings Time Reminder!!! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=UYTV_TuK-KG3NdoyRzMLVFTwcRVqCSLer6XTbp9BmTKLr73Nyxt2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8fb1ede024390304bafc3455 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The United States and Canada switched to daylight savings time this morning. The United Kingdom does not change to daylight savings time until March 25, and since we use GMT for our schedule for B2MeM, that means that, for some participants, the posting time for new bingo numbers changes, as does the time when old numbers are closed. Until March 25, new bingo numbers will be posted no later than *8 PM EST*. Old numbers will be removed no earlier than 8 PM EST. I'll post another notice when the times change in the UK so everyone remembers to adjust their schedules again, if necessary. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8fb1ede024390304bafc3455 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The United States and Canada switched to daylight savings t= ime this morning. The United Kingdom does not change to daylight savings ti= me until March 25, and since we use GMT for our schedule for B2MeM, that me= ans that, for some participants, the posting time for new bingo numbers cha= nges, as does the time when old numbers are closed.

Until March 25,= new bingo numbers will be posted no later than 8 PM EST. Old number= s will be removed no earlier than 8 PM EST.

I'll post another no= tice when the times change in the UK so everyone remembers to adjust their = schedules again, if necessary.

Dawn

--
~oO= o~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org=
--e89a8fb1ede024390304bafc3455-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3403 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22419 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2012 00:14:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m13.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2012 00:14:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f177.google.com) (209.85.210.177) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2012 00:14:59 -0000 X-Received: by iaky10 with SMTP id y10so7296120iak.36 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:14:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.15.5 with SMTP id t5mr5922943obc.2.1331511295776; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:14:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 20:14:55 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0447886dcc96e304bb00a19d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 12's Bingo Number Is N31 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=QIjYx4Q5oyq4kGwDOktD2Bg2UeMSs-iXc1mvL1gu5g4eWRsXThqJ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0447886dcc96e304bb00a19d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 12, is N31. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on entries for N31 prompts and request your stamps. Please request your N31 stamps on this post: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/92456.html or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, one day remains on March 11's number, N33. Please start your prompts and request your stamps within the next 24 hours by emailing us at the address above or leaving a comment on this post: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/87059.html Happy writing, all! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0447886dcc96e304bb00a19d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 12, is N31. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on entries for N31 prompts and request your stamps. Please request your N31 stamps on this post:


or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org.

In addition, one day remains on March 11's number, N33. Please start your prompts and request your stamps within the next 24 hours by emailing us at the address above or leaving a comment on this post:


Happy writing, all! :)

--f46d0447886dcc96e304bb00a19d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3404 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13085 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2012 02:00:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2012 02:00:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gy0-f171.google.com) (209.85.160.171) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2012 02:00:00 -0000 X-Received: by ghbz17 with SMTP id z17so2544553ghb.30 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 18:59:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.29.166 with SMTP id l6mr5893826oeh.12.1331517596113; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 18:59:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 18:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:59:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff2429f541b7604bb0219be X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: March 2012 Newsletter Posted (At Last!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hveoky2FjAV2zToQsLawnrjgUxlMwBShPdT8nEVTvuVZQOrAqYmg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff2429f541b7604bb0219be Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, Due to B2MeM being massively successful this year and therefore m= onopolizing my time in a big way, the newsletter is dreadfully late. I do a= pologize--but here it is at long last! :) http://www.silmarillionwritersgu= ild.org/news/march2012.php This month's edition contains news from the SWG= , from groups beyond our borders, stories added and updated during February= , and the current challenges on the site. In honor of Back to Middle-earth = Month, Oshun has contributed the first part of what promises to be an infor= mative and insightful biography of Gandalf. This part considers how he appe= ars in LotR and *The Hobbit* (compared to the very different character we s= ee in *The Silmarillion* and related works) as well as the archetypal roles= he plays. The biography is also illustrated by Pandemonium_213. Pand=C3= =AB has also contributed another in her series of brilliantly funny Gothmog= & Draugluin comics. This month, Melkor prepares to whisk his wife away on = a romantic getaway, and Lil Gothmog heads off to Tol-in-Gaurhoth with his b= abysitter (sorry! observer!), Professor Th=C3=BB. Many thanks to Oshun, Pa= ndemonium, Rhapsody, and Angelica, who contributed to this month's newslett= er. (And got their stuff in on time! :) Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagu= nd http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwrite= rsguild.org --e89a8ff2429f541b7604bb0219be Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Due to B2MeM being massively successful this ye= ar and therefore monopolizing my time in a big way, the newsletter is dread= fully late. I do apologize--but here it is at long last! :)

=

This month's edition contains news from the S= WG, from groups beyond our borders, stories added and updated during Februa= ry, and the current challenges on the site. In honor of Back to Middle-eart= h Month, Oshun has contributed the first part of what promises to be an inf= ormative and insightful biography of Gandalf. This part considers how he ap= pears in LotR and The Hobbit=C2=A0(compared to the very different ch= aracter we see in The Silmarillion=C2=A0and related works) as well a= s the archetypal roles he plays. The biography is also illustrated by Pande= monium_213.

Pand=C3=AB has also contributed anoth= er in her series of brilliantly funny Gothmog & Draugluin comics. This = month, Melkor prepares to whisk his wife away on a romantic getaway, and Li= l Gothmog heads off to Tol-in-Gaurhoth with his babysitter (sorry! observer= !), Professor Th=C3=BB.

Many thanks to Oshun, Pan= demonium, Rhapsody, and Angelica, who contributed to this month's newsl= etter. (And got their stuff in on time! :) Enjoy!

--e89a8ff2429f541b7604bb0219be-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3405 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99088 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2012 02:33:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m11.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2012 02:33:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gy0-f173.google.com) (209.85.160.173) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2012 02:33:07 -0000 X-Received: by ghrr14 with SMTP id r14so70472ghr.18 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:33:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.1.1 with SMTP id 1mr10021635obi.32.1331605987325; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:33:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 22:33:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0447a077daf68104bb16adce X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 13's Number Is I21 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=DisyLq4Gbnxg0_Awks6WoAp9vVWrm0_Y2mvsqLOqYq-4Mpk6MaaK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0447a077daf68104bb16adce Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I almost forgot to cross-post the number here! Apologies! The number for March 13 is I21. You have until at least 11:59 PM GMT on March 14 to start your responses for I21 prompts and request your stamps for these prompts. Please request your stamps on this post: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/98264.html or by emailing us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. There is also approximately one day left for yesterday's number, N31. To request your stamps for N31, email us at the above address or leave a comment on this post: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/92456.html The buzz is that no G numbers have been called yet! :) Yes, this really is a coincidence; the numbers were drawn at random. Probability says that there will be some G numbers before the challenge is over. ;) Several participants, though, are only one block from BINGO! Happy writing! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0447a077daf68104bb16adce Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I almost forgot to cross-post the number here! Apologies!
The number for March 13 is I21. You have until at least 11:59 PM GMT = on March 14 to start your responses for I21 prompts and request your stamps= for these prompts. Please request your stamps on this post:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/= 98264.html

or by emailing us at moderator AT silmarillionwriters= guild DOT org.

There is also approximately one day left for yesterda= y's number, N31. To request your stamps for N31, email us at the above = address or leave a comment on this post:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/92456.html
The buzz is that no G numbers have been called yet! :) Yes, this really i= s a coincidence; the numbers were drawn at random. Probability says that th= ere will be some G numbers before the challenge is over. ;) Several partici= pants, though, are only one block from BINGO!

Happy writing!
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lo= remaster/
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0447a077daf68104bb16adce-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3406 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52237 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2012 00:11:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m13.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2012 00:11:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gy0-f171.google.com) (209.85.160.171) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2012 00:11:07 -0000 X-Received: by ghbz17 with SMTP id z17so1447104ghb.2 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:11:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.13.36 with SMTP id e4mr676861oec.22.1331683865942; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:11:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:11:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:11:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c1b0c8599604bb28cf7e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 14's Bingo Number Is B15 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=eBy5ZBK4U-CJgKQcZOHbwlam_yiqKt2_VMilI_oOz3ozZsKFIglV X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff1c1b0c8599604bb28cf7e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 14, is B15. You have at least 48 hours to make a significant start on your responses for these prompts and to request your stamps. Please comment on this post to request your stamps for B15: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/103484.html or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. There is also one day left to start prompts and request stamps for yesterday's number, I21. Please email us at the address above or comment on this post to request your stamps for I21: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/98264.html Happy writing, all! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff1c1b0c8599604bb28cf7e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 14, is B15. You have at l= east 48 hours to make a significant start on your responses for these promp= ts and to request your stamps. Please comment on this post to request your = stamps for B15:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/103484.html

or email us at modera= tor AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org.

There is also one day left = to start prompts and request stamps for yesterday's number, I21. Please= email us at the address above or comment on this post to request your stam= ps for I21:

htt= p://b2mem.livejournal.com/98264.html

Happy writing, all!

= Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/
http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8ff1c1b0c8599604bb28cf7e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3407 Return-Path: X-Sender: elliefin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24449 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2012 15:00:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m16.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2012 15:00:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng15-vm5.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.136.219.187) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2012 15:00:47 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.0.89] by ng15.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2012 15:00:47 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by tg9.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2012 15:00:47 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2012 15:00:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 15:00:45 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "ellfine2000" Subject: Question about traversing Beleriand X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=484523282; y=GWMFsVCQgR9kTvMxH3wOe9GcxmhyRGNROshO7NhA6wwwmvNPsZE X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 Anyone have any ideas about how a group would go about travelling north alo= ngside the river Sirion and crossing the Andram and scaling the falls of S= irion? Is there an easier way around the falls if one is required to follow= the Sirion north to Doriath? I'm really stuck, or, well... I have some pe= ople who will be really stuck in about another chapter. I need help getting= them to Doriath! Anybody? Please? Ellie From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3408 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66447 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2012 00:09:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m11.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2012 00:09:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gy0-f179.google.com) (209.85.160.179) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2012 00:09:01 -0000 X-Received: by ghbg19 with SMTP id g19so2536210ghb.38 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:09:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.13.36 with SMTP id e4mr5776729oec.22.1331770140690; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:09:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:09:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c1b028881904bb3ce655 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: The Bingo Number for March 15 Is G50 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Umbo_UJ-x8fl4Te3MW5-UqV7zgzMTATxulxKmFLdotObvpsTUuRk X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff1c1b028881904bb3ce655 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 15, is G50. [Yes, our first number in the G column! :D] You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any G50 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for G50 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 16. Please request your G50 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/110360.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, B15, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for B15 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/103484.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff1c1b028881904bb3ce655 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 15, is G50. [Yes, our fir= st number in the G column! :D] You have 48 hours to make a significant star= t on any G50 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We wi= ll stop accepting requests for G50 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on = March 16. Please request your G50 stamps here:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/110360.html

or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org.

In addition, = yesterday's number, B15, will be active for one more day. Please reques= t your stamps for B15 on this post or by emailing us at the address above:<= br>
http://b2mem.li= vejournal.com/103484.html

Happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/=
http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org
--e89a8ff1c1b028881904bb3ce655-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3409 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 59023 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2012 15:33:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m11.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2012 15:33:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ng8-vm5.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.136.219.96) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2012 15:33:47 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1331825626; bh=Jhi7FK9QbIwDr5Xfiui74e4l14JJGe96zF0yO0oe30M=; h=Received:Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:From:Reply-To:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=DGSfvcpGhK853czWFKzrb1voKPYhswtYPyUkezXDTf3LiADWnyuXxMpV/xL/1hPmLbZC09XXPJOfWDrdcCDBufu3AzhFeZcBdf0nEFxqgHzrbn54oKwb8knHNblv1dIP Received: from [98.137.0.83] by ng8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2012 15:33:46 -0000 Received: from [69.147.65.151] by tg3.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2012 15:33:46 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.51] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2012 15:33:46 -0000 X-Sender: ellin_revenger@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70408 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2012 15:11:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2012 15:11:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm23-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.212.191) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2012 15:11:06 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.215.141] by nm23.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2012 15:11:05 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.212.210] by tm12.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2012 15:11:05 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1019.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2012 15:11:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 546525.62636.bm@omp1019.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 79778 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Mar 2012 15:11:05 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: yTApppAVM1nKPPNvElfh3yFShrBAnKrm2OAXYGsPdJ338qC zTzImLD8g36aZtDwDLMtkTnbnRmpWCWozjvEIHLDIwstgfzAMd8E5SqOHap9 .OtaAQLtYujhNFazhwtNYoe0bGRSQg8nsrpHuYDdjaHm.R24ZqGxtnAYLhtG zjLOKXIoyk6Sg8FEsBPTlXVAULofRNnk5y2lks2nLmCO2.3QoZG3cKUBF6AG UFTz4qBFgqJgqgB05LvFrj3YvO5RJL5wqeB1AjIC_TvLrP2WFntpemeJjuhv gYbp3QpaZoKLTXoFJ7sOsl3zhhfg1eA.mN_352ephW8gc.AIcpeL0082hEO8 m3IwajSM68tx6Ybs3gJKRyeOQntlJPd2rfRtCMHLsdJaHhgGSJJ1FFWO7CBD 7_LZanzkx0pZc1gNlC75rBS8Py559hAFTXml1Ald1kaYrNn5Hg2Mn06yypXu Mcz_fooFOfMFFZC297atHAPeN4Jor3KZ.1_RNtFFYFmBODegVPv1Erg6nQxN kpGRyEAo.WpunCIhFrS3FJY5LzJlEnS6y38xUt1DvBFu3Yxw400._Heo1s3a FF9_QDWzR8NNMoqB8TqZSK4EDRoq4WQiTINc8f_QR5s8LNivQMzw75LcF1aJ Lf02_JoeQSep5oxZId5Q2psT9FNtb9X0LMb9EYUo3OI.X80g5dfD2uSKDhsU WFY2N6UJN6g24hlGCcBD13Vu9q7HTriTTcuepEDKapJGXAsNn._LTX.M36aM SC3ieb6GPBHBSMdu9j9OPXYYOnTB5tmaoJQSe58idc3h8StP2lIHaV1CcAC_ XmAd3mAO2d7meaLVeX9CVROWh_DKr7YLwlFC5UgB9waP1ZTJ9Xe38DSLiCh7 Qvvm8LuBhLuvWyy3G3cwQsFkRUWaxcyMOVnFIYRgpXtZN9QJjYlQZWNAsby3 ahsgoODL_PNM4Zj5lpdNE0nhQe997aRtCZo2VNKoWZNEr86vPc.FmSw8bCAB YWNM.hZ_.ATeeWW_pYAcgEQphVek_oFnt29DuVL0t3UDpXaM_o4bBj5bpr0t SvNsoMd8hOevItvELAMwIfsr1kNLpboFrZ_knhrCnukycWK4msJsOKaxIlzf 5rn0dF7stvpGfuWWl67pCRi9CL5FrBMNF1PxjI5fQw40BVan54G54lx3ADGJ mbC.AnYgCCugIQm0mWz0n8PIdszetH1x0z722brWGs4CFPFv3Obp_eRBaDQQ NuMZW1HkoAZuU.07.l_q3JU27cJD0RO349ZpeFSmYski4mTgWV75Xbd3aS0L j.m1TjAWuH6TBvPcaS3IJeG0udTq0Xs55DWlElxkBJL2zFm3T5XHX9JrfZxq eegfTdMBgDoNxeg7iy5utRigz.uk2mNUuEYYRpssJtqztVuPQtUkvfYn3RqN tTtpAxJ4JvzahyoSLqv8OboO5mfteNjLMHaMhkyY0jWX3U.gIGa2T4InibCz eKgMiF6WRkvJhhhPaNYUEf_rfp9ApBKBIm4vM1MK3EifFjYqxewPZl2EezdN 6V6KE77Wa3X4betsvF_csP9O_uU51UEDoPnwIaxTZnp_gjdi4XYmgS4qIFZT Wx0cQYm97B8t4VGNFgJHfdWZiwO5gHsBZw58yP5mIg5eSFTGYHnPSHJRmxqp Oo4_EBGRxPt7X.pmj8AxSNuwAtUv48vd4SVoola.oKP_5i9CzeUVJbpoQbkF cc2dw1a4mz1.nj1fSzMQhKDNnmAUzCt1UCwpQ4UTmQQccYUvQaoJjRVDlXPX E.pbR652douBM1Qy0fEqsqx.JJXmwNoZVbArlSZKU6.G25DPOr3UV7VVlxdD kGJMKCUlHvtu4uXAulMIH3qN84RjWKqF9snArntDWjkAhT9cMag2x5oH9aGV NeXnFQGxFNLZ3XiCmb0VwwL8cZMZhqXSAw7avMXMzc7vr76Ki.Lb80Q6JUzV LGbOQW6qQnsRKW6akKgTbKu19W4v.V8Xn0ckVBuO0xkuVKRP2hESxsEBDl3J upGggDvPHp2icIvMGGOZf6bkMYHPRmtxeKGEgK62P0P3PRLkLYfJIDOjpBie F2gOZAcf3gP.qWhf2KSPTnHZ5M13KyWyPSYgiLyfshdRuOm.Nz0ME3nG3ClS PjnOkJU59TvwgM0JlgrabmCA.NzLlbQVrAkdwBjEJqRqg8XDtJj7tMRyEwu5 tyJ42oQNso8YV1w-- X-Received: from [93.137.212.167] by web160406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:11:04 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.117.340979 References: Message-ID: <1331824264.78483.YahooMailNeo@web160406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:11:04 -0700 (PDT) To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1741458154-1014740435-1331824264=:78483" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Ellin Ithilwen Reply-To: Ellin Ithilwen Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about traversing Beleriand X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=401733726; y=KUCfCRIfIogRn3z3pO2a_x1LwpXt43WcQfgEwQfga97LUDRDhio9VBA X-Yahoo-Profile: ellin_revenger X-eGroups-Approved-By: rhapsody_the_bard via web; 15 Mar 2012 15:33:46 -0000 --1741458154-1014740435-1331824264=:78483 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On the map of Beleriand, Andram is not drawn very high and steep like some = other mountains, so I guess it should be possible to find some way, a sort = of pass,=C2=A0through the hills. This is my suggestion: =C2=A0 http://i468.= photobucket.com/albums/rr41/ellin_elfica/ellie.jpg =C2=A0 Hope it helps! = =C2=A0 Ellynn =C2=A0 ________________________________ From: ellfine2000 <= elliefin@gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed= nesday, March 14, 2012 4:00 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question= about traversing Beleriand =C2=A0 Anyone have any ideas about how a gro= up would go about travelling north alongside the river Sirion and crossing = the Andram and scaling the falls of Sirion? Is there an easier way around t= he falls if one is required to follow the Sirion north to Doriath? I'm rea= lly stuck, or, well... I have some people who will be really stuck in about= another chapter. I need help getting them to Doriath! Anybody? Please? E= llie --1741458154-1014740435-1331824264=:78483 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On the map of Beleriand, Andram is not dr= awn very high and steep like some other mountains, so I guess it should be = possible to find some way, a sort of pass, through the hills. This is = my suggestion:
 
 
Hope it helps!
 
Ellynn
=
 
=

= From: ellfine2000
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.= com
Sent: Wednesday, Ma= rch 14, 2012 4:00 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Question about traversing Beleriand

 
Anyone have any ideas about how a group would go abo= ut travelling north alongside the river Sirion and crossing the Andram and = scaling the falls of Sirion? Is there an easier way around the falls if one= is required to follow the Sirion north to Doriath?

I'm really stuck= , or, well... I have some people who will be really stuck in about another = chapter. I need help getting them to Doriath!

Anybody? Please?
Ellie



--1741458154-1014740435-1331824264=:78483-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3410 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89701 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2012 00:06:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2012 00:06:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-yx0-f178.google.com) (209.85.213.178) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2012 00:06:08 -0000 X-Received: by yenm14 with SMTP id m14so4563167yen.37 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 17:06:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.1.1 with SMTP id 1mr634034obi.32.1331856367171; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 17:06:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 17:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:06:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0447a077a839a204bb50f94a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 16's Bingo Number Is G51 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KWKZqXhTmLu_STwpAbUYqWYT_t2Y-Zxa6madEemEg9Wr5M_9ke7z X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0447a077a839a204bb50f94a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 16, is G51. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any G51 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for G51 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 17. Please request your G51 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/116357.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, G50, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for G50 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/110360.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0447a077a839a204bb50f94a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 16, is G51. You have 48 h= ours to make a significant start on any G51 prompts and send us a post/emai= l requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for G51 stamps at= approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 17. Please request your G51 stamps her= e:

http://b2me= m.livejournal.com/116357.html

or email us directly at moderator = AT silmarillionwritersguild= .org.

In addition, yesterday's number, G50, will be active = for one more day. Please request your stamps for G50 on this post or by ema= iling us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/110360.html

Happy = writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund<= br>http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0447a077a839a204bb50f94a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3411 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6278 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2012 22:11:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m15.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2012 22:11:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-yx0-f180.google.com) (209.85.213.180) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2012 22:11:07 -0000 X-Received: by yenl4 with SMTP id l4so6969872yen.39 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:11:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.12.6 with SMTP id u6mr4782577obb.12.1331935867027; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:11:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:11:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0444edd337c27104bb637c25 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 17's Number Is B1 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=WH1Ck2Ie8Dt_16H7W79w5idCHgl8sdAx2_31nczYgckLpyDDb38x X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0444edd337c27104bb637c25 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 17, is B1. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any B1 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B1 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 18. Please request your B1 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/120662.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, G51, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for G51 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/116357.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0444edd337c27104bb637c25 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 17, is B1. You have 48 ho= urs to make a significant start on any B1 prompts and send us a post/email = requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B1 stamps at ap= proximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 18. Please request your B1 stamps here:
http://b2mem.li= vejournal.com/120662.html

or email us directly at moderator AT <= a href=3D"http://silmarillionwritersguild.org">silmarillionwritersguild.org= .

In addition, yesterday's number, G51, will be active for = one more day. Please request your stamps for G51 on this post or by emailin= g us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/116357.html

Happy writ= ing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
<= a href=3D"http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/">http://themidhavens.= net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0444edd337c27104bb637c25-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3412 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98112 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2012 00:03:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m16.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2012 00:03:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f181.google.com) (209.85.214.181) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2012 00:03:04 -0000 X-Received: by obceq6 with SMTP id eq6so695116obc.12 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 17:03:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.1.1 with SMTP id 1mr7873883obi.32.1332028984150; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 17:03:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 17:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 20:03:04 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0447a0776e4a9b04bb792a1d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 18's Bingo Number Is N38 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=0irlEjB7QWQm5g1SFQ_hETgaTN5KQw4XzZx8H4fnObfY_9eQeNm8 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0447a0776e4a9b04bb792a1d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 18, is N38. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any N38 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for N38 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 19. Please request your N38 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/128764.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, B1, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for B1 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/120662.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0447a0776e4a9b04bb792a1d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 18, is N38. You have 48 h= ours to make a significant start on any N38 prompts and send us a post/emai= l requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for N38 stamps at= approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 19. Please request your N38 stamps her= e:

http://b2me= m.livejournal.com/128764.html

or email us directly at moderator = AT silmarillionwritersguild= .org.

In addition, yesterday's number, B1, will be active f= or one more day. Please request your stamps for B1 on this post or by email= ing us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/120662.html

Happy wr= iting! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhaven= s.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0447a0776e4a9b04bb792a1d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3413 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79767 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2012 14:54:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m16.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2012 14:54:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-iy0-f172.google.com) (209.85.210.172) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2012 14:54:13 -0000 X-Received: by iazz13 with SMTP id z13so11368256iaz.17 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 07:54:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.29.10 with SMTP id f10mr10527098oeh.32.1332082453329; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 07:54:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 07:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 10:54:13 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c89a71367004bb859d84 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: We Have Our First Winners! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=V42N34W5t1qWv3JcuPTZaYDILDmqDornZmJxdJZjmRoxgrLZ7vWF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff1c89a71367004bb859d84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, We've had our first participants reporting that they've reached BINGO on their cards for N38. Congratulations to Lady Brooke, Kim, Starlight, Mirach, and Crackinandproudofit! :D I've posted about winning and what happens next with the game on our LiveJournal community here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/129756.html If you have questions, they may be answered there; if not, please do ask, and my comods and I will gladly do our best to help! :) All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff1c89a71367004bb859d84 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

We've had our first participants reporting that they= 9;ve reached BINGO on their cards for N38. Congratulations to Lady Brooke, = Kim, Starlight, Mirach, and Crackinandproudofit! :D

I've posted = about winning and what happens next with the game on our LiveJournal commun= ity here:

http= ://b2mem.livejournal.com/129756.html

If you have questions, they= may be answered there; if not, please do ask, and my comods and I will gla= dly do our best to help! :)

All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org
--e89a8ff1c89a71367004bb859d84-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3414 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22628 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2012 00:23:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2012 00:23:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pz0-f47.google.com) (209.85.210.47) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2012 00:23:35 -0000 X-Received: by mail-pz0-f47.google.com with SMTP id o14so9325057dad.6 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 17:23:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.190.42 with SMTP id gn10mr17073798pbc.94.1332116615471; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 17:23:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.142.201.1 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 17:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 20:23:35 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1cb26aa21aa04bb8d9145 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 19's Number Is I27 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=dOTVWYvvmnsD4n57nSE1f6cwS8ejf27sF-U_ZLkZ2lkoxwcQZwG5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff1cb26aa21aa04bb8d9145 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 19, is I27. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any I27 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for I27 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 20. Please request your I27 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/132155.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, N38, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for N38 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/128764.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff1cb26aa21aa04bb8d9145 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 19, is I27. You have 48 h= ours to make a significant start on any I27 prompts and send us a post/emai= l requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for I27 stamps at= approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 20. Please request your I27 stamps her= e:

http://b2me= m.livejournal.com/132155.html

or email us directly at moderator = AT silmarillionwritersguild= .org.

In addition, yesterday's number, N38, will be active = for one more day. Please request your stamps for N38 on this post or by ema= iling us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/128764.html

Happy = writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund<= br>http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8ff1cb26aa21aa04bb8d9145-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3415 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24683 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2012 00:33:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2012 00:33:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gy0-f175.google.com) (209.85.160.175) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2012 00:33:00 -0000 X-Received: by ghbz2 with SMTP id z2so7120746ghb.34 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:33:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.29.10 with SMTP id f10mr15915773oeh.32.1332203579879; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:32:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 20:32:59 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c89a25b26304bba1d1c3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 20's Bingo Number Is B9 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hSZ3rAhN_6emjva8SeCUjd5HxK-juESxG5QorAyjpkn1C-R0ucEo X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff1c89a25b26304bba1d1c3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 20, is B9. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any B9 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B9 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 21. Please request your B9 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/139623.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, I27, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for I27 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/132155.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff1c89a25b26304bba1d1c3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 20, is B9. You have 48 ho= urs to make a significant start on any B9 prompts and send us a post/email = requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B9 stamps at ap= proximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 21. Please request your B9 stamps here:
http://b2mem.li= vejournal.com/139623.html

or email us directly at moderator AT <= a href=3D"http://silmarillionwritersguild.org">silmarillionwritersguild.org= .

In addition, yesterday's number, I27, will be active for = one more day. Please request your stamps for I27 on this post or by emailin= g us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/132155.html

Happy writ= ing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
<= a href=3D"http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/">http://themidhavens.= net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8ff1c89a25b26304bba1d1c3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3416 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37472 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2012 00:03:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2012 00:03:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f170.google.com) (209.85.214.170) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2012 00:03:20 -0000 X-Received: by obbup19 with SMTP id up19so340025obb.29 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:03:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.12.6 with SMTP id u6mr2492432obb.12.1332288199569; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:03:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:03:19 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0444edd3dfb2be04bbb584fe X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 21's Number Is B4 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=IawN9wyvq-gjrFw5TxWOBA3RGjT3JX73QkP8UYtsboJIrMQuurjy X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0444edd3dfb2be04bbb584fe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 21, is B4. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any B4 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B4 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 22. Please request your B4 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/143417.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, B9, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for B9 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/139623.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0444edd3dfb2be04bbb584fe Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 21, is B4. You have 48 ho= urs to make a significant start on any B4 prompts and send us a post/email = requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B4 stamps at ap= proximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 22. Please request your B4 stamps here:
http://b2mem.li= vejournal.com/143417.html

or email us directly at moderator AT <= a href=3D"http://silmarillionwritersguild.org">silmarillionwritersguild.org= .

In addition, yesterday's number, B9, will be active for o= ne more day. Please request your stamps for B9 on this post or by emailing = us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/139623.html

Happy writin= g! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.ne= t/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0444edd3dfb2be04bbb584fe-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3417 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52755 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2012 00:10:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m16.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2012 00:10:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f171.google.com) (209.85.214.171) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2012 00:10:31 -0000 X-Received: by obhx4 with SMTP id x4so1335899obh.2 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 17:10:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.231.41 with SMTP id td9mr7197132obc.22.1332375029856; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 17:10:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 17:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:10:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0446310a5cbb3b04bbc9bcc9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 22's Bingo Number Is B14 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=JFGumbC27X-hNCrk4InWpikKULi9Zg-l4pqanK04WD4bg9v0WorF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0446310a5cbb3b04bbc9bcc9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 22, is B14. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any B14 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B14 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 23. Please request your B14 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/146358.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, B4, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for B4 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/143417.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0446310a5cbb3b04bbc9bcc9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 22, is B14. You have 48 h= ours to make a significant start on any B14 prompts and send us a post/emai= l requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B14 stamps at= approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 23. Please request your B14 stamps her= e:

http://b2me= m.livejournal.com/146358.html

or email us directly at moderator = AT silmarillionwritersguild= .org.

In addition, yesterday's number, B4, will be active f= or one more day. Please request your stamps for B4 on this post or by email= ing us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/143417.html

Happy wr= iting! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhaven= s.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0446310a5cbb3b04bbc9bcc9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3418 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31711 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2012 00:07:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2012 00:07:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f174.google.com) (209.85.214.174) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2012 00:07:11 -0000 X-Received: by obbeh20 with SMTP id eh20so1903253obb.19 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:07:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.12.6 with SMTP id u6mr12673391obb.12.1332461231302; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:07:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:07:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0444edd35e682204bbddce12 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 23's Bingo Number Is N32 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=6eVPoV6Al9jNtUgP5D7zF2vdZ7Rs7kxfVg0WN28xqVONvxKMOZrD X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0444edd35e682204bbddce12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 23, is N32. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any N32 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for N32 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 24. Please request your N32 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/151069.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, B14, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for B14 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/146358.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0444edd35e682204bbddce12 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 23, is N32. You have 48 h= ours to make a significant start on any N32 prompts and send us a post/emai= l requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for N32 stamps at= approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 24. Please request your N32 stamps her= e:

http://b2me= m.livejournal.com/151069.html

or email us directly at moderator = AT silmarillionwritersguild= .org.

In addition, yesterday's number, B14, will be active = for one more day. Please request your stamps for B14 on this post or by ema= iling us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/146358.html

Happy = writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund<= br>http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0444edd35e682204bbddce12-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3419 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60148 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2012 02:35:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2012 02:35:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f178.google.com) (209.85.214.178) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2012 02:35:01 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f178.google.com with SMTP id uo19so3565040obb.23 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:35:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.231.41 with SMTP id td9mr17256864obc.22.1332556501535; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:35:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 22:35:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0446310aeaccd504bbf3fc07 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 24's Bingo Number Is O64 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=F35Q9xvGT2b-jaQbHwpMCRuRwtUGbnGWdc1LwDw_gv42h__YzgrU X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0446310aeaccd504bbf3fc07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 ***This is the first access I've had to my computer since this afternoon, so today's number is about 2-1/2 hours late as a result. Therefore, I will be closing stamp requests on this post 2-1/2 hours later than usual as well: no earlier than 2:30 AM GMT on March 26.*** Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 24, is O64. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any O64 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for O64 stamps at approximately 2:30 AM GMT on March 26. Please request your O64 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/155982.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, N32, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for N32 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/151069.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0446310aeaccd504bbf3fc07 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ***This is the first access I've had to my computer since this afternoo= n, so today's number is about 2-1/2 hours late as a result. Therefore, = I will be closing stamp requests on this post 2-1/2 hours later than usual = as well: no earlier than 2:30 AM GMT on March 26.***

Hi, all,
The BINGO number for today, March 24, is O64. You have 48 hours to make a= significant start on any O64 prompts and send us a post/email requesting y= our stamps. We will stop accepting requests for O64 stamps at approximately= 2:30 AM GMT on March 26. Please request your O64 stamps here:

http://b2mem.livejournal.c= om/155982.html

or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org.
<= br>In addition, yesterday's number, N32, will be active for one more da= y. Please request your stamps for N32 on this post or by emailing us at the= address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/151069.html

Happy writing! :)
=
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic= _loremaster/
htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0446310aeaccd504bbf3fc07-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3420 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83423 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2012 18:21:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m15.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2012 18:21:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f182.google.com) (209.85.214.182) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2012 18:21:36 -0000 X-Received: by obbuo13 with SMTP id uo13so4559078obb.41 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 11:21:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.29.10 with SMTP id f10mr20009571oeh.32.1332613295306; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 11:21:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 11:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 14:21:34 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , manypaths@lotrgfic.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=e89a8ff1c89a16f77504bc0136fa X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: Second Place Winners' Banner X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=6s_4T8zbxIaERfDE2TGU187YUxUaR39-G6R0FH-AFMhoVx46eB1g X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff1c89a16f77504bc0136fa Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c89a16f77204bc0136f8 --e89a8ff1c89a16f77204bc0136f8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Greetings! If you are receiving this email, then you have earned a BINGO on B4, which means you're one of our second place winners! Congratulations! Attached is the second-place award banner. Please display it wherever you want. Congrats again on your success and happy writing for the last week of B2MeM! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff1c89a16f77204bc0136f8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings!

If you are receiving this email, then you have earned a= BINGO on B4, which means you're one of our second place winners! Cong= ratulations! Attached is the second-place award banner. Please display it = wherever you want.

Congrats again on your success and happy writi= ng for the last week of B2MeM!

Dawn

--
~o= Oo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8ff1c89a16f77204bc0136f8-- --e89a8ff1c89a16f77504bc0136fa-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3421 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18443 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2012 18:24:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m11.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2012 18:24:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f178.google.com) (209.85.214.178) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2012 18:24:06 -0000 X-Received: by obbuo19 with SMTP id uo19so3947428obb.9 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 11:24:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.23.138 with SMTP id m10mr20096266oef.12.1332613444958; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 11:24:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 11:24:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 14:24:04 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , manypaths@lotrgfic.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1ff2a027a0b04bc013fc5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM: Second Place Winners' Banner [1 Attachment] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=x9PH7gaw9jPrMVeumlPRWfV88gL7SsMzUPGcbzWfRdjD4sc91lyG X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8fb1ff2a027a0b04bc013fc5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Please disregard this message. I meant to send it to the SWG moderator email and clicked the wrong address. My apologies! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8fb1ff2a027a0b04bc013fc5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please disregard this message. I meant to send it to the SWG moderator emai= l and clicked the wrong address. My apologies!

Dawn

--
~o= Oo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8fb1ff2a027a0b04bc013fc5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3422 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80329 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2012 00:00:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2012 00:00:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f179.google.com) (209.85.214.179) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2012 00:00:23 -0000 X-Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so6054618obb.24 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 17:00:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.0.195 with SMTP id 3mr20979612oeg.2.1332633622901; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 17:00:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.208.4 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 17:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 20:00:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1ede0b5721004bc05f14d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 25's Bingo Number Is O62 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xShlHAl3YDYRYrOUbm4yKHQzbZRarW38JlMH1W-4CTgyHKBgtW1G X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8fb1ede0b5721004bc05f14d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 25, is O62. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any O62 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for O62 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 26. Please request your O62 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/160661.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, O64, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for O64 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/155982.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8fb1ede0b5721004bc05f14d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 25, is O62. You have 48 h= ours to make a significant start on any O62 prompts and send us a post/emai= l requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for O62 stamps at= approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 26. Please request your O62 stamps her= e:

http://b2me= m.livejournal.com/160661.html

or email us directly at moderator = AT silmarillionwritersguild= .org.

In addition, yesterday's number, O64, will be active = for one more day. Please request your stamps for O64 on this post or by ema= iling us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/155982.html

Happy = writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund<= br>http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8fb1ede0b5721004bc05f14d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3423 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82450 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2012 18:18:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2012 18:18:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f177.google.com) (209.85.214.177) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2012 18:18:47 -0000 X-Received: by obbup16 with SMTP id up16so5500593obb.8 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:18:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.12.99 with SMTP id x3mr23920137oeb.38.1332699527216; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:18:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.98.169 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:18:47 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff25610e97c6704bc15494e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: Important Announcements X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=dGVdd0uDGS4hP15ymeoVEXzY0TCsYur84VYTKZsUdhgiOXImXT10 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff25610e97c6704bc15494e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I posted an important announcement on the B2MeM community today: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/163190.html It contains a reminder about daylight savings time for those who switched today. It also points out an error on the Colors card, discovered and kindly pointed out by Paranoidangel. The last column on the Colors card should be all O's, not G's. (It is numbered correctly on the text cards, for those players using text cards.) The final column of prompts on Colors, therefore, should be: O61: Blue O64: Brown O69: Fuchsia O73: Bright Green O75: Copper Please note that this includes O64 (brown), which will close in about nine hours. If you avoided this prompt because of the incorrect numbering, please make sure you claim your stamp in time. Finally, our winners' list grows! I sent out banners yesterday for winners on numbers that have been closed. I will continue to send out winners' banners when the winning number closes. If you should have received a banner yesterday and did not, please let me know. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff25610e97c6704bc15494e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I posted an important announcement on the B2MeM community t= oday:

http://b2= mem.livejournal.com/163190.html

It contains a reminder about day= light savings time for those who switched today. It also points out an erro= r on the Colors card, discovered and kindly pointed out by Paranoidangel. T= he last column on the Colors card should be all O's, not G's. (It i= s numbered correctly on the text cards, for those players using text cards.= ) The final column of prompts on Colors, therefore, should be:

O61:= Blue
O64: Brown
O69: Fuchsia
O73: Bright Green
O75: Copper
=
Please note that this includes O64 (brown), which will close in about n= ine hours. If you avoided this prompt because of the incorrect numbering, p= lease make sure you claim your stamp in time.

Finally, our winners&= #39; list grows! I sent out banners yesterday for winners on numbers that h= ave been closed. I will continue to send out winners' banners when the = winning number closes. If you should have received a banner yesterday and d= id not, please let me know.

All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org
--e89a8ff25610e97c6704bc15494e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3424 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86683 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2012 02:05:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2012 02:05:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f176.google.com) (209.85.214.176) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2012 02:05:13 -0000 X-Received: by obbef5 with SMTP id ef5so5020606obb.7 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:05:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.172.100 with SMTP id bb4mr25427329obc.28.1332727513318; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:05:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.80.70 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:05:13 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f83a1dd03837b04bc1bce96 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 26's Bingo Number Is N36 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=y4NInGRb4B3LhRL_VVCcmUNlQFbeVAUA1L-8S7yNYHgbsQcKnOGD X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f83a1dd03837b04bc1bce96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 26, is N36. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any N36 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for N36 stamps at approximately 2:00 AM GMT on March 28 (since the number was posted 2 hours late today). Please request your N36 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/165423.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, O62, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for O62 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/160661.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f83a1dd03837b04bc1bce96 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 26, is N36. You have 48 h= ours to make a significant start on any N36 prompts and send us a post/emai= l requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for N36 stamps at= approximately 2:00 AM GMT on March 28 (since the number was posted 2 hours= late today). Please request your N36 stamps here:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/165423.ht= ml

or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org.

In additi= on, yesterday's number, O62, will be active for one more day. Please re= quest your stamps for O62 on this post or by emailing us at the address abo= ve:

http://b2me= m.livejournal.com/160661.html

Happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/=
http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8f83a1dd03837b04bc1bce96-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3425 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6663 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2012 00:01:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2012 00:01:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f179.google.com) (209.85.214.179) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2012 00:01:39 -0000 X-Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so5881663obb.38 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:01:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.36.3 with SMTP id m3mr30098233obj.8.1332806499134; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:01:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.80.70 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:01:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04447f9fef6c4404bc2e319f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 27's Bingo Number Is B13 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=IPhK7jw446Ly3Ghkt2cvsK7Nn1GDDLO01d5tW7oDF2oj2TELRGgM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d04447f9fef6c4404bc2e319f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 27, is B13. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any B13 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B13 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 28. Please request your B13 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/169092.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, N36, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for N36 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/165423.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d04447f9fef6c4404bc2e319f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 27, is B13. You have 48 h= ours to make a significant start on any B13 prompts and send us a post/emai= l requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B13 stamps at= approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 28. Please request your B13 stamps her= e:

http://b2me= m.livejournal.com/169092.html

or email us directly at moderator = AT silmarillionwritersguild= .org.

In addition, yesterday's number, N36, will be active = for one more day. Please request your stamps for N36 on this post or by ema= iling us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/165423.html

Happy = writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund<= br>http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d04447f9fef6c4404bc2e319f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3426 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5890 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2012 23:59:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m9.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2012 23:59:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f178.google.com) (209.85.214.178) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2012 23:59:23 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f178.google.com with SMTP id uo19so624043obb.23 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 16:59:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.172.100 with SMTP id bb4mr35746917obc.28.1332892762817; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 16:59:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.80.70 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 16:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:59:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f83a1dda6c5d504bc42474a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 28's BINGO Number Is ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uEE50gpT0N9nJj5dmrnM4oOh0EpFZ6UD8sCxCTOmyzSzKJjrmcoO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f83a1dda6c5d504bc42474a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Yes, I am again using the shameless ploy of withholding the BINGO number in order to make sure everyone sees an important announcement. For the final two days of the event, two of our stampers/mods (Russandol and myself) will be traveling and, therefore, offline. We shuffled around responsibilities so that all B2MeM tasks will continue as usual, and you should have received an email if your stamper will be changing. However, I do want everyone to be aware, since the duties done by five people will be handled by three, and the time it takes to get things done may be a bit longer as a result. I'd kindly request that participants wait three days before querying about any missing stamps. Furthermore, if you tend to email me or Russandol personally with questions or requests, please use the moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org address instead, beginning on the 29th. And now for your regularly scheduled BINGO number ... :) The BINGO number for today, March 28, is G59. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any G59 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for G59 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 29. Please request your G59 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/172307.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, B13, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for B13 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/169092.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f83a1dda6c5d504bc42474a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Yes, I am again using the shameless ploy of withholding the= BINGO number in order to make sure everyone sees an important announcement= .

For the final two days of the event, two of our stampers/mods (Rus= sandol and myself) will be traveling and, therefore, offline. We shuffled a= round responsibilities so that all B2MeM tasks will continue as usual, and = you should have received an email if your stamper will be changing. However= , I do want everyone to be aware, since the duties done by five people will= be handled by three, and the time it takes to get things done may be a bit= longer as a result. I'd kindly request that participants wait three da= ys before querying about any missing stamps.

Furthermore, if you te= nd to email me or Russandol personally with questions or requests, please u= se the moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org address instead, begin= ning on the 29th.

And now for your regularly scheduled BINGO number = ... :)

The BINGO number for today, March 28, is G59. You have 48 ho= urs to make a significant start on any G59 prompts and send us a post/email= requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for G59 stamps at = approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 29. Please request your G59 stamps here= :

http://b2mem= .livejournal.com/172307.html

or email us directly at moderator A= T silmarillionwritersguild.= org.

In addition, yesterday's number, B13, will be active f= or one more day. Please request your stamps for B13 on this post or by emai= ling us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/169092.html

Happy w= riting! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagundhttp://themidhave= ns.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8f83a1dda6c5d504bc42474a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3427 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27462 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2012 00:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2012 00:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f180.google.com) (209.85.214.180) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2012 00:34:26 -0000 X-Received: by obbwd18 with SMTP id wd18so3233536obb.39 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:34:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.12.99 with SMTP id x3mr41075325oeb.38.1332981265840; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:34:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.36.72 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:34:25 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff25610d7bbf204bc56e212 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM: March 29's Bingo Number Is B6 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=o94acCLhtQT8wy98IrODz05CX-Kounnk_1iSq5p6L9LPK8Y5RefT X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff25610d7bbf204bc56e212 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 29, is B6. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any B6 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B6 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 30. Please request your B6 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/176182.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, G59, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for G59 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/172307.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff25610d7bbf204bc56e212 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 29, is B6. You have 48 ho= urs to make a significant start on any B6 prompts and send us a post/email = requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for B6 stamps at ap= proximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 30. Please request your B6 stamps here:
http://b2mem.li= vejournal.com/176182.html

or email us directly at moderator AT <= a href=3D"http://silmarillionwritersguild.org">silmarillionwritersguild.org= .

In addition, yesterday's number, G59, will be active for = one more day. Please request your stamps for G59 on this post or by emailin= g us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/172307.html

Happy writ= ing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
<= a href=3D"http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/">http://themidhavens.= net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8ff25610d7bbf204bc56e212-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3428 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22988 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2012 22:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m13.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2012 22:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm12-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.213.140) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2012 22:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.214.32] by nm12.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2012 22:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.212.228] by tm15.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2012 22:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1037.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2012 22:40:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 304942.94949.bm@omp1037.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 742 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Mar 2012 22:40:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Mho9zKkVM1ma7FQlNiOHYBbxqCJ5KVGNg1NLDT0YU7eSzMZ 2IMiJBbZjh_EZr2tL8un.HIIACmqX1Q0k5YlTCkdBceoZ7m3kTb0e0TjP_ux Ph75bas2U2gzolLdJkKEf9ycu.rdOGgDanjZLszyOcqtvjcYkCvH3CEcHtg_ COXuBCvem_eVmExGlQttQrcQ5_BTVm4JishbWoMwMCr75OaUw8mKy_RugCSy CBjuhLBG4zBfheR.8Or2E5OQTtabjExVRMEvQi5nKjiQjOqEn.e0wSI39Jyv M3VdlXWdudb0WDwY2DY8LTbwVJFc3lA9iPuh.i2iKbkV3PkjlCgN8BDlhKgN eUfbxFf1kEpCuH8yXEUUZj3VjCj26NqVYt5OJEpTRBZCwzi57SgKQlt4FM9H YmpK0xKIqvCdOm1ZjXK6zby3NMkTUmegEPx14Pe5FzgGHTBCwI7ctmfzDjJ5 ri2FUIAioHH2xjPiihgwGMQhazxXEvkLdigj8SK_xLlyGtn6qnWgDToJahNy pSGLPizzJgxd1lRqpjlD4zG.b7TeeIonbq4jBgr_1PV3vLgRdCwFKjziKgzN OSyJW8MNsSdPHdeFLlXErfGabghrJ5n8M4yuIUmW2kD6Wq7karhAhEKxtyxW fCVxWNUxDby8ee1BcOh7AmTdPhCln5eYmmNpkLJQ6bMqdvnHiiHKuYNmJ6YW awE4TBWDi7OX5h8duiNz75TFBUZvJi1QeBUGmeXDz6ZB67Hc3RXTHy48VH4l ..JmM8HKZFJ3fWJPoyYvYVQd94PTGvoijJxp.T8X7CQeADQ-- X-Received: from [200.126.199.172] by web163103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:40:16 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.117.340979 Message-ID: <1333060816.99402.YahooMailNeo@web163103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:40:16 -0700 (PDT) To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="673831718-1323010885-1333060816=:99402" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Angelica Reply-To: Angelica Subject: B2MeM: March 30's Bingo Number is O70 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=9sfioSdC_g3l6iGPsM3IWuS14olEdVonhonOQHF_8ev2-kpkXu56RIkD X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --673831718-1323010885-1333060816=:99402 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 30, is O70. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any O70 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for O70 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 31. Please request your O70 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/179171.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, B6, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for B6 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/176182.html Happy writing! :) Angelica --673831718-1323010885-1333060816=:99402 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 30, is O70. You have 48 hours to

make a significant start on any O70 prompts and send us a post/email

requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for O70 stamps

at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on March 31. Please request your O70

stamps here:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/179171.html

or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org.

In addition, yesterday's number, B6, will be active for one more day.

Please request your stamps for B6 on this post or by emailing us at

the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/176182.html

Happy writing! :)

Angelica
--673831718-1323010885-1333060816=:99402-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3429 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68294 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2012 22:59:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2012 22:59:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm2-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.213.127) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2012 22:59:58 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.215.142] by nm2.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2012 22:59:56 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.212.246] by tm13.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2012 22:59:56 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1055.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2012 22:59:56 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 729003.95592.bm@omp1055.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 74235 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Mar 2012 22:59:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: S6lH0QMVM1mRHfUgOdoJyIH6V78DzNx0K6kwg0HB_aW1wgi P01yrOkD6uq6atHbC9GZU1EFbGuLvLZijdqw0ejQK2TQ2YLjCedKYWvZoioS jFOWZA5nORH1k3Pm8rMuqCbe7D6qhccDC1YCGR37hlISbGlGMnAWp8NvSxAq 8fwqArBc3lZmpBtLfy8BbgP21_wumNdAY269j22MotzqgRv5kdTckJWWwrON Ocry48OWU056aDDlJjtLODOQS_Jml4SRHCdKL1dJDY9f1.vBsvONA7dNM3Dg lLFHLkKSLIIFbPWNZq6FGp_sN5Dc87KhFIn6KjT39vX4UvreA6ILz8XRStKg WQWq2XCVpxgjzfO7acqzlQGLn5iCd7B.EeGm_0xoF_RPVBl.hwbwcyZJV3pJ r3XvMYsQpoABf6vs.xaJmkKTBEDqCgoHlOL6pcSqLi80KUMDSxgb0D9Abj6V OE3caJRBJzsHL.vYbBRx.vJL5pHnf2PTW3un71T5cYJIGomMLhOQne2uqjqu Y3hdtBM1j0HzA_B0GzkaxmovtM1ulKvUbhUvo90WV5JaPynQvA0viyYpzuBq KSEhneNHIHUbg3hnW61tJl3._81MJK3u_6spbHxVoXZsKCL6EhGXTdS4E9Fq eyfwyKCz8wSIA.wIxxCYnQT7YEBWCisLfb2NNnvH14XLKFIE.HG.cWSgowgW yJ6KNrJq105cT5FDlOMTusLZMLSeSVXpgpnzv6tJuDHtGSfMU0kmgtJU7_3B hL_7lSx.uxLl81s.V28zY9jDOrm88qi5VWIfqy9aaAC.m X-Received: from [200.126.199.172] by web163106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:59:56 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.117.340979 Message-ID: <1333148396.63397.YahooMailNeo@web163106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:59:56 -0700 (PDT) To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1423285701-159400929-1333148396=:63397" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Angelica Reply-To: Angelica Subject: B2MeM: March 31's Number is N39 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=vWZ7PS3b76NTrJxYWgKPSZMDbnIwsDxQeQMvsfO4R1KglKWhJAxelf4r X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses ---1423285701-159400929-1333148396=:63397 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, all, The BINGO number for today, March 31, is N39. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any N39 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for N39 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on April 1. Please request your N39 stamps here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/182224.html or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org. In addition, yesterday's number, O70, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for O70 on this post or by emailing us at the address above: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/179171.html Happy writing! :) Angelica ---1423285701-159400929-1333148396=:63397 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi, all,

The BINGO number for today, March 31, is N39. You have 48 hours to make a significant start on any N39 prompts and send us a post/email requesting your stamps. We will stop accepting requests for N39 stamps at approximately 11:59 PM GMT on April 1. Please request your N39 stamps here:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/182224.html

or email us directly at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org.

In addition, yesterday's number, O70, will be active for one more day. Please request your stamps for O70 on this post or by emailing us at the address above:

http://b2mem.livejournal.com/179171.html

Happy writing! :)

Angelica
---1423285701-159400929-1333148396=:63397-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3430 Return-Path: X-Sender: angelica.ramses@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5206 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2012 14:41:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Mar 2012 14:41:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.212.165) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2012 14:41:42 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.212.148] by nm6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Mar 2012 14:41:41 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.212.200] by tm5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Mar 2012 14:41:41 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1009.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Mar 2012 14:41:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 882796.27133.bm@omp1009.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 96175 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Mar 2012 14:41:41 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: zqMk51YVM1nz4kQgxpNh3cuSlQEwQOFc8Sn19Xy.2SCvXEh f2mfS2bLC5358VwxRYTrxgaTrS3sVZXSZro9pDsXsatxY2H5XNoyxlR.c._g bu_YgJQpjWa.MbsiyiLl1Asjn3NSy92p98sXzlpBEWlo.7dxGT4JAQOYwc4s RBfepS7S8WWa_D0M4KywGaEeFAEhH3lLdhjP9zzFMYNqHGTZwEysKCNFa.wh 4G3F92o6mZ3RTsVFc7LnCW7qx33rxiCEJ6M.pGRPPe8ubduwXk6Lcgs3bmwy uYL9GYakqfN8OLelnzr_yG63N1BHupZ7GOgvQp4JhSEipmQCGiEFYuVfqJ_r LfOxxLVrW7Gk.WXeQajFQn8A5NyuK2HSUoBA5rqSGLH_.520OIiEZ6v2Whbo i1GW_Dq9cVrtnUWgRKNX2Qn9DF09gSbfCTW0BUFjFQYCGFqvMuVAPlntH6mD iyGrUGnenxs5mtaaZmXr6IV7.YHMh.9UKE67c X-Received: from [200.126.199.172] by web163102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:41:41 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.117.340979 Message-ID: <1333204901.84787.YahooMailNeo@web163102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:41:41 -0700 (PDT) To: SWG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="31392086-82263395-1333204901=:84787" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Angelica Reply-To: Angelica Subject: B2MeM 2012 Bingo Bash X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=268938698; y=qMrZLu-SrFDulZxqjW8HrFiQdc28uXViLcoy9tpe5VmuezeeLuYbBe2x X-Yahoo-Profile: angelica.ramses --31392086-82263395-1333204901=:84787 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, everybody, Today, on March 31, we have posted the last bingo numbe= r but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean the game is over! The LJ community will = remain open so all the authors who want to continue sharing their work ther= e are welcome to do so and if you've been too busy writing, now is the time= to catch up with all the wonderful stories already posted.The stampers are= still hard at work.=C2=A0 As soon as Dawn comes back, she will make the= winner announcements and the prizes will be handed out to those who have w= on. If you didn't get bingo, don't fret: there will be surprises for everyb= ody! We also want to thank you for your kind words and appreciation! (Mor= e) Happy writing! :) Rhapsody and Angelica on behalf of the SWG Moderators= --31392086-82263395-1333204901=:84787 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello, everybody,

Today, = on March 31, we have posted the last bingo number but that doesn=E2=80=99t = mean the game is over!

The LJ community wi= ll remain open so all the authors who want to continue sharing their work t= here are welcome to do so and if you've been too busy writing, now i= s the time to catch up with all the wonderful stories already posted. The stampers are still hard at work. 

As soon as Dawn comes back, she will make t= he winner announcements and the prizes will be handed out to those who have= won. If you didn't get bingo, don't fret: there will be surprises for everybody!=

We also want to thank you for your kind words and= appreciation!

(More) Happy writing! :)
=
Rhapsody and Angelica
on behalf of the SWG Moderat= ors
--31392086-82263395-1333204901=:84787-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3431 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50301 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2012 16:29:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m13.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Mar 2012 16:29:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm16-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (98.139.91.210) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2012 16:29:18 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.91.65] by nm16.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Mar 2012 16:29:17 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.91.3] by tm5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Mar 2012 16:29:17 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1003.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Mar 2012 16:29:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 461192.98393.bm@omp1003.mail.sp2.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 51630 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Mar 2012 16:29:17 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: t0fYjM0VM1mbL6F_Q3u_9WTVkiHlGKUzHJL4_XcHMFimTuN E9Xr86aOuHhoieV3NUespliSDcHEufBDC20Z5gtB0QINZd78nI5Pogv2bU6e t08k1yE4ljDblQ6R70bhB9QIABaC72Q2BDpUKff_dCf6QFNevRLaRSDlarny .j48iEfBexMT.zO.ooJ4MEAH6Dk0wb.B2Q_XFQD1zpBp4zBH6xUPods5gCbQ pkqXmnxwft2m.fd16XcsQ1eFzpoqAklyGxNewJX3BckH2Ayceytqyv5VuQmZ AhrAStq3wGxQUDfonDlNrGYXVs3UO4njI8oq3wvOnSnwl4Uxas5ctO3Bj3na NUuFmft8WvHWbDR4wkiffctrFmU__OtgkHu7JwHfB1_cTIVD28AQMJovdvNG V_k.4a0YhvnrZt9ZWdAbiZflpbxHMgcyHOZE0qbNBMG_9dspbB1dV9ESBktg vSDJwb8zBGjm11ffsoFms4qbp0UNfCei3nHVaM4lFHzyxL5PlTEEUhO5.nTN F7hgziaUi8bTYuTcB8V7toNGzEFTiWPsPq9VXYIW0j8TwmSgdauEWa7SclNH f6j346dKNRH0tD.yE8.DTryGcAI4Qc_HHnuvTElqPB40EEtVFji5kclZX.My UvYbb7ES9GiuZqJSILMSH4RFcvhHa9lA0tgoA.UUCyWRa8mQEqMXtbmfJox8 u7Oe2z.hUDoPimCXQkQTEq8KX1_v39phoyTsP_BAnnDXs.4e0STs3IRIPJ0J cbDf446IdWq.H0YApU37ECk1lSx5Y0q3cpoSVcIBK654iPClK54XU7LTSIAq Rr2Tu.9dhr4d1rhvWbdxp.upmUcfhanTHYH_JktD17WGCXzPjNbL4Zj7WjoU DQiDpN9N_O3cXQQfwe4rp8N96n1Ojfk0C8niCIpKSlrxoalPnyErUJkfmMTN QijsgTcbjV_NnDUuERhJHyzPLfTadxWQDjydySOQFxO3e.ssmZTTNvQgDQRi RLiY5D56K3sgcoA140csvkLyOlDFxeEYWF8IUfKqVBXt9iVxZIXoyVPjbeWH H.giw1WUqUXAfNh_jcjqtnKmkjnmOmIpiIgT_yw0WbateyX.CVD7hg.iYJrA NyYJ_gGVnXRWj1JAfWuF4htj8RPdsaBAoehwhfZGTEQJdtT68xhTIuDMvhY6 qPhVH07_Y7EY9A5UlgSOx65azgN4wO.UPCDi6TAG9FJ.Rlt3xf1w5XmjuHtj Bfl8vezhlQ95WbLZQacfDNbue5htRj5BCqUl0IB1YtmzJgNdRMJSkZp8HzIm OF_t6Zo5h0rmX78knsUNLHAJ4J2xWZjIS5Kl6Po3d9N9gw3gRyqwS0vDEqhc FI5BwUuJX2qgKJuG5JLnxiJrf0BR28j_CJ1e5AqtJUqjiKpCOm5b5w3Slzbq oDnartQPpGDcDosAdNg.7UfebFbXgP5l_yZAx3J6dzm0QrlK.Icgae06t0gb tfMiFYh1z_1n_GP2Wz3FT8IbaitAy94KyHMLQj83xvipYeIQahcj_XuTLYP0 v0HCjT8U4YApzhCHOJTg7ii5b8WGvlMat4oTxxMUmE6GBcsQiHThmJkk1mkZ 8rlVBlS3y208NS1RyuyDCJ7EOgSD_THWSaxQyoxWM8gffk7kCFL80xqUlXw3 aG8lkZKRFLj.T8T40ZlD873aFny4CUtTkr53UsN57OowRgRbvISX93IVv3Jr 5hmV9ch7Eqb6JEoAD9eflH7zkkixzeuyenBbpUrr8XMdxhTYKMJFpCuczmss TjQezpHT4RXf71eeu.JLWUMXg0K7djuJC3Ze6vbvj6ShZb94itw1x9xTul8v KokWZGyv5Jm5iL1cn_oSRDwgN75_n29EXfWp4MEV_yhw2NyX8KBeHAGrv9Ez tjGGqeD2HXx0TdNrKZttHURMa6ZmJyhUu8.0SpRfLeHWmn6jn46nXuCTfEml osZ0RB3n67gteK7_yiU_YIjwnhuMz.HSD1Dc9je0.HV2tyIWCiBHHImJEpzv FXI.hc9fUA7oa X-Received: from [200.106.22.19] by web46011.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:29:16 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.117.340979 References: <1333204901.84787.YahooMailNeo@web163102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1333211356.39434.YahooMailNeo@web46011.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:29:16 -0700 (PDT) To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com" In-Reply-To: <1333204901.84787.YahooMailNeo@web163102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-457441137-2062349885-1333211356=:39434" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silver Trails Reply-To: Silver Trails Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2012 Bingo Bash X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=gNcsFVrAybHP6hJ4IDz1JST8SacO3-jkIvFSs6KyA0kpJXxYGHCIHQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails ---457441137-2062349885-1333211356=:39434 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! =C2=A0 I have three stories that I didn't finiosh because there was no = more prompts for them. Can I post the next parts in the comm, even without = prompts? I was thinking of redirecting readers to my LJ if that was not pos= sible, but if it's possible I could post the last parts in the comm. =C2=A0= And again thank you! =3D) =C2=A0 CC ________________________________ F= rom: Angelica To: SWG Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 9:41 AM Subject: [Silmari= llionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2012 Bingo Bash =C2=A0 Hello, everybody,= Today, on March 31, we have posted the last bingo number but that doesn= =E2=80=99t mean the game is over! The LJ community will remain open so a= ll the authors who want to continue sharing their work there are welcome to= do so and if you've been too busy writing, now is the time to catch up wit= h all the wonderful stories already posted.The stampers are still hard at w= ork.=C2=A0 As soon as Dawn comes back, she will make the winner announce= ments and the prizes will be handed out to those who have won. If you didn'= t get bingo, don't fret: there will be surprises for everybody! We also wa= nt to thank you for your kind words and appreciation! (More) Happy writing= ! :) Rhapsody and Angelica on behalf of the SWG Moderators ---457441137-2062349885-1333211356=:39434 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi!=
 
I have three stories that I = didn't finiosh because there was no more prompts for them. Can I post the n= ext parts in the comm, even without prompts? I was thinking of redirecting = readers to my LJ if that was not possible, but if it's possible I could pos= t the last parts in the comm.
 
And again thank you! =3D)
 
CC

From: Angeli= ca
To: SWG Sent: Saturday, March 31= , 2012 9:41 AM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2012 Bingo Bash

=
=
Hello, everybody,

Today, on March 31, = we have posted the last bingo number but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean the game= is over!

= The LJ community will remain open so all the authors w= ho want to continue sharing their work there are welcome to do so and if you've been too busy writing, now is the time to catch up with all the= wonderful stories already posted. The stampers are st= ill hard at work. 

As soon as Daw= n comes back, she will make the winner announcements and the prizes will be= handed out to those who have won. If you didn't get bingo, don't fret: there will be surprises for everybody!
<= div>
We also want to thank you for your kind words and apprec= iation!

(More) Happy writing! :)

Rhapsody and Angelica
on behalf of the SWG Moderators
=


=
---457441137-2062349885-1333211356=:39434-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3432 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32766 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2012 22:46:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Mar 2012 22:46:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ee0-f48.google.com) (74.125.83.48) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2012 22:46:06 -0000 X-Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so455768eek.35 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:46:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.213.102.140 with SMTP id g12mr204797ebo.253.1333233964915; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from [10.0.0.5] (D4CC9DFD.cm-2.dynamic.ziggo.nl. [212.204.157.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q45sm46823339eem.7.2012.03.31.15.46.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F7788E0.5010003@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2012 00:44:48 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Cc: Silver Trails References: <1333204901.84787.YahooMailNeo@web163102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1333211356.39434.YahooMailNeo@web46011.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1333211356.39434.YahooMailNeo@web46011.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2012 Bingo Bash X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=_TdXDeoyHuvLDDf8w3a26Y8AhsMTRgdCPvQYb3wTM4mURGDgU7ybQeY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi CC, If you started to write these stories based on previous B2mem 2012 prompts, I see no reason why you cannot continue to post there. Perhaps for the readers it would be useful to see the prompts used that got the fiction started in the first place, this way they know what inspired it as a kind of reference point. For everyone: feel free to continue B2mem 2012 stories there even in weeks to come, that is what the community is for as well. CC, if you have more questions, do ask! That's what we're here for. :c) Rhapsody On 31-3-2012 18:29, Silver Trails wrote: > Hi! > I have three stories that I didn't finiosh because there was no more > prompts for them. Can I post the next parts in the comm, even without > prompts? I was thinking of redirecting readers to my LJ if that was not > possible, but if it's possible I could post the last parts in the comm. > And again thank you! =) > CC > > *From:* Angelica > *To:* SWG > *Sent:* Saturday, March 31, 2012 9:41 AM > *Subject:* [SilmarillionWritersGuild] B2MeM 2012 Bingo Bash > > Hello, everybody, > > Today, on March 31, we have posted the last bingo number but that > doesn’t mean the game is over! > > The LJ community will remain open so all the authors who want to > continue sharing their work there are welcome to do so and if you've > been too busy writing, now is the time to catch up with all the > wonderful stories already posted.The stampers are still hard at work. > > As soon as Dawn comes back, she will make the winner announcements and > the prizes will be handed out to those who have won. If you didn't get > bingo, don't fret: there will be surprises for everybody! > > We also want to thank you for your kind words and appreciation! > > (More) Happy writing! :) > > Rhapsody and Angelica > on behalf of the SWG Moderators > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3433 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34597 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2012 13:53:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2012 13:53:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng8-ip1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.215.171) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2012 13:53:33 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.217.178] by ng8.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2012 13:53:33 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.35] by tg3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2012 13:53:33 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 13:53:30 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Announce: yes X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Expected Downtime of the SWG X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=_7Pj8dQswdyh6nHGHvhhIVHjlqBmyKSbxSws4RsigLbjHREkIb2NzpQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi, all, Our host has let us know that they plan to do a major software up= grade of the server where Silmarillion Writers Guild is on. This will happe= n within 48 hours time frame (2nd or 3rd of April, they didn't state it tha= t precisely) and in the early morning hours (for the United States). It is = possible that you cannot access the SWG during the 2 hour planned down time= and I wanted to give everyone a heads up about this. If you have any ques= tions or concerns, do contact us at the moderator account (moderator(at)sil= marillionwritersguild.org). With kind regards, Rhapsody (SWG mod) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3434 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69917 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2012 17:09:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2012 17:09:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gy0-f182.google.com) (209.85.160.182) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2012 17:09:00 -0000 X-Received: by ghrr20 with SMTP id r20so1555250ghr.13 for ; Mon, 02 Apr 2012 10:09:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.0.226 with SMTP id 2mr13669133oeh.18.1333386540098; Mon, 02 Apr 2012 10:09:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.78.7 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Apr 2012 10:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 13:09:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Possible (Brief) Site Outage X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Ii_z17eVXHL2Xrvw7sXPt6xbry6xCWUjZ-wT6Gteafjbe0usVAVP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, The SWG's hosting company will be doing an upgrade within the next 48 hours that may require them to take our site offline for as long as two hours, so you may encounter an outage in the next two days. Please report any problems with the site that you may encounter after the upgrade. (Hopefully no one will encounter any problems, but it's happened before, so it pays to be vigilant! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3435 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29529 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2012 01:53:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m13.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2012 01:53:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f171.google.com) (209.85.214.171) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2012 01:53:09 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f171.google.com with SMTP id wd18so6782368obb.16 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:53:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.0.226 with SMTP id 2mr525674oeh.18.1334281988969; Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:53:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.63.166 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:53:08 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1fbc6fb943b04bd85bb5a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: April 2012 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=G5B8B-mMIFHelv1baYJhHTVYVPP_xN9oJvfTkyD4QmvYJsH8no4g X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8fb1fbc6fb943b04bd85bb5a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, It's late again, thanks to B2MeM and my traveling out of the country, but this month's newsletter is finally done and posted! Hopefully, next month, I can get back on the proper schedule again. :) http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/april2012.php This month's edition contains a new comic from pandemonium_213: the next installment in Gothmog and Draugluin's adventure with Professor Thu while Melkor is gone on vacation. In addition there is news from within and beyond the SWG, a list of this month's stories, and a new challenge. I would like to draw attention to an important announcement from Angelica, our Library of Tirion moderator, in this month's newsletter. We are once again running low on stories to add to the Library of Tirion. For those of you not familiar with it, LofT is the section of our archive for stories published prior to the opening of the SWG archive in 2007. We rely on our members to suggest their favorite pre-SWG authors so that we can ensure that this era of fandom history is represented on our site. Please email us with your requests or use the request form on the site. There is more information here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/library-of-tirion.php Thank you to Pandemonium, Rhapsody, and Angelica for their contributions to this month's newsletter! Best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8fb1fbc6fb943b04bd85bb5a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

It's late again, thanks to B2MeM and m= y traveling out of the country, but this month's newsletter is finally = done and posted! Hopefully, next month, I can get back on the proper schedu= le again. :)


This month's edit= ion contains a new comic from pandemonium_213: the next installment in Goth= mog and Draugluin's adventure with Professor Thu while Melkor is gone o= n vacation. In addition there is news from within and beyond the SWG, a lis= t of this month's stories, and a new challenge.

I would like to draw attention to an important announcement from Angelic= a, our Library of Tirion moderator, in this month's newsletter. We are = once again running low on stories to add to the Library of Tirion. For thos= e of you not familiar with it, LofT is the section of our archive for stori= es published prior to the opening of the SWG archive in 2007. We rely on ou= r members to suggest their favorite pre-SWG authors so that we can ensure t= hat this era of fandom history is represented on our site. Please email us = with your requests or use the request form on the site. There is more infor= mation here:


Thank you to Pandemon= ium, Rhapsody, and Angelica for their contributions to this month's new= sletter!

Best regards to all,

--e89a8fb1fbc6fb943b04bd85bb5a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3436 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33241 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2012 14:07:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2012 14:07:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f170.google.com) (209.85.214.170) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2012 14:07:07 -0000 X-Received: by obbta17 with SMTP id ta17so4690736obb.29 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:06:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.177.101 with SMTP id cp5mr7317460obc.38.1334412411643; Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:06:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.63.166 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 10:06:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f83a513c7a53c04bda41979 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Correction to April Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KOajvUqiqFlHqz6Hw8kONzdLliKcQN7xEXHeJiqHgF0HR5nCCokN X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f83a513c7a53c04bda41979 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Due to a glitch in the RSS feed that we use to compile the story list each month, stories posted to the archive between March 13 and March 24 were inadvertently left off of the list. Clearly, this amounts to quite a few stories! :) Rhapsody has kindly fixed the list for us, and the correct version is now available on our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/april2012.php All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f83a513c7a53c04bda41979 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Due to a glitch in the RSS feed that we use to = compile the story list each month, stories posted to the archive between Ma= rch 13 and March 24 were inadvertently left off of the list. Clearly, this = amounts to quite a few stories! :) Rhapsody has kindly fixed the list for u= s, and the correct version is now available on our website:

=
=

All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.n= et/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
<= /div> --e89a8f83a513c7a53c04bda41979-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3437 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43980 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2012 14:22:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2012 14:22:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-yw0-f46.google.com) (209.85.213.46) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2012 14:22:22 -0000 X-Received: by yhmm54 with SMTP id m54so3040963yhm.33 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2012 07:22:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.8.129 with SMTP id r1mr15883080oea.28.1334586141758; Mon, 16 Apr 2012 07:22:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.63.166 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Apr 2012 07:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:22:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f839cbde6d35804bdcc8c9a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Archive Bug X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wOTwKSTETQ71NJPwxAgAw8LCEIWidPm6VnoXuNdrTMRpEA-HhtSF X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f839cbde6d35804bdcc8c9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, A mysterious bug has crawled out of the woodwork and is causing some problems on the archives for both the SWG and MPTT. My comods and I are working on getting the problem solved, but since it will involve either (or both!) the software creators and our webhost, it may be a few days before we get it fixed. Here is the problem: When you open the story form to add a new story/chapter or edit an existing chapter, the form will not allow you to input text into the Story Notes, Chapter Notes, and Story Text fields, if you have the rich-text editor (TinyMCE) turned on. This problem has been reported in Internet Explorer and Firefox. Chrome appears to be behaving normally. *Until we get the problem corrected, please use one of the following workarounds: * --Use Google Chrome to access the site when you need to add/edit stories. --Shut off the rich-text editor (TinyMCE). You can do this via the Edit Preferences link on your account screen. Make sure the checkbox for "Use tinyMCE WYSWYG editor" is *not* checked. SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/user.php?action=editprefs MPTT: http://www.lotrgfic.com/user.php?action=editprefs You will need to add your story using HTML if you shut off the rich-text editor. --Beneath each of the affected fields is the option to shut off the rich-text editor (TinyMCE) for that field alone. Uncheck that box, then tick it again. The field should work normally once you do this. If you experience any problems aside from those that have been already reported, please let me know. If you have any questions regarding the above workarounds, don't hesitate to ask. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f839cbde6d35804bdcc8c9a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

A mysterious bug has crawled out of the woodwork and i= s causing some problems on the archives for both the SWG and MPTT. My comod= s and I are working on getting the problem solved, but since it will involv= e either (or both!) the software creators and our webhost, it may be a few = days before we get it fixed.

Here is the problem: When you open the= story form to add a new story/chapter or edit an existing chapter, the for= m will not allow you to input text into the Story Notes, Chapter Notes, and= Story Text fields, if you have the rich-text editor (TinyMCE) turned on.
This problem has been reported in Internet Explorer and Firefox. Chr= ome appears to be behaving normally.

Until we get the problem cor= rected, please use one of the following workarounds:

--Use Googl= e Chrome to access the site when you need to add/edit stories.

--Sh= ut off the rich-text editor (TinyMCE). You can do this via the Edit Prefere= nces link on your account screen. Make sure the checkbox for "Use tiny= MCE WYSWYG editor" is not checked.

SWG: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/user.php?action=3Ded= itprefs
MPTT: http://www.lotrgfic.com/user.php?action=3Deditprefs

Y= ou will need to add your story using HTML if you shut off the rich-text edi= tor.

--Beneath each of the affected fields is the option to shut off= the rich-text editor (TinyMCE) for that field alone. Uncheck that box, the= n tick it again. The field should work normally once you do this.

I= f you experience any problems aside from those that have been already repor= ted, please let me know. If you have any questions regarding the above work= arounds, don't hesitate to ask.

Best regards,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org
--e89a8f839cbde6d35804bdcc8c9a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3438 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7635 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2012 22:42:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2012 22:42:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f173.google.com) (209.85.214.173) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2012 22:42:08 -0000 X-Received: by obbwd20 with SMTP id wd20so3448823obb.18 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:42:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.202.69 with SMTP id kg5mr6046821obc.35.1335825728475; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:42:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.63.166 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:42:08 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f6438c207109304beed2a6c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Archive Bug (TinyMCE) Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=pgeeYrZohDRhwDC1Re5tyBV0BggdRtpKCjdoGMmxMa6Xzu8kCHiz X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f6438c207109304beed2a6c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I posted two weeks ago about a bug that suddenly appeared on the archive that seemed to affect Firefox users who were using the rich-text editor. This bug didn't allow you to enter text into some of the fields, including the Story field. (The original bug report can be read here: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/202781.html.) SWG moderators Russandol and Rhapsody have been working hard in the meantime to figure out how to correct this problem. Lo and behold, the latest Firefox upgrade to version 12 seems to have solved the problem! If this problem affected you, please upgrade to version 12 of Firefox. You can do this by clicking on Help and choosing About Firefox. This will display the version you are currently running, will check for updated versions, and prompt you to run an update, if necessary. I also checked the archive in Internet Explorer 7 this afternoon and didn't have any problems, nor have problems been reported with Chrome. Please be aware, if you use Internet Explorer 9, that there is a different problem with this browser that requires you to run it in compatibility mode in order for it to work with our archive software. (You can learn more about how to do that here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/why-do-some-webpages-look-incorrect-in-internet-explorer-9 .) At this point, we are considering this issue resolved. *If you continue to have any problems with the archive, please report them to me or one of the other site moderators.* I can always be reached at this address or at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org (on the SWG) and websmith AT lotrgfic DOT com (on MPTT). Many, many thanks again to Russandol and Rhapsody, who actually had a fix in place and were in the process of scheduling it when Firefox solved the problem for them. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f6438c207109304beed2a6c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I posted two weeks ago about a bug that suddenl= y appeared on the archive that seemed to affect Firefox users who were usin= g the rich-text editor. This bug didn't allow you to enter text into so= me of the fields, including the Story field. (The original bug report can b= e read here:=C2=A0http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/202781.html.)
<= br>
SWG moderators Russandol and Rhapsody have been working hard = in the meantime to figure out how to correct this problem. Lo and behold, t= he latest Firefox upgrade to version 12 seems to have solved the problem!

If this problem affected you, please upgrade to ve= rsion 12 of Firefox. You can do this by clicking on Help and choosing About= Firefox. This will display the version you are currently running, will che= ck for updated versions, and prompt you to run an update, if necessary.

I also checked the archive in Internet Explorer 7 th= is afternoon and didn't have any problems, nor have problems been repor= ted with Chrome. Please be aware, if you use Internet Explorer 9, that ther= e is a different problem with this browser that requires you to run it in c= ompatibility mode in order for it to work with our archive software. (You c= an learn more about how to do that here:=C2=A0http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/why-do-some-webpages= -look-incorrect-in-internet-explorer-9.)

At t= his point, we are considering this issue resolved. If you continue to ha= ve any problems with the archive, please report them to me or one of the ot= her site moderators.=C2=A0I can always be reached at this address or at= moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org (on the SWG) and websmith AT= lotrgfic DOT com (on MPTT).

Many, many thanks ag= ain to Russandol and Rhapsody, who actually had a fix in place and were in = the process of scheduling it when Firefox solved the problem for them.

All the best,

--e89a8f6438c207109304beed2a6c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3439 Return-Path: X-Sender: elfscribe5@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16099 invoked from network); 1 May 2012 17:26:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2012 17:26:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm11-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (98.139.91.240) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2012 17:26:14 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.91.64] by nm11.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2012 17:26:14 -0000 X-Received: from [72.30.22.186] by tm4.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2012 17:26:14 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1062.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2012 17:26:14 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 896253.40256.bm@omp1062.mail.sp2.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 86849 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2012 17:26:14 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: j3s3oG8VM1moUMJPp2uQtsJYScKOhWRX0DTUuKHGH9dkb7U JiOzTK_mXGgoIfja04mqS.RM23IXTh00rNKJu171FFBgYhC.RTX1Puycz4cw JL.3JQ005D62jykdShjt9n47X4WKNGU8IjZs1mT4Q7qoso2MfXIMWobGjguo JbPTKjmyOPacBobubqaLN_vz7bs49ywfA0_xMTYZuVVcR.b.mppnk_tyzYmE uNuq5LEGdX4IPKt_HVerd82gCQa.DZoOQkLNMCCMGvoK5wnOkml_kGmft52P oPMsp2I0lBOwhBDXzNSYTCwbqPfOGG06fjWvl2FhSJcw.w6032.fVC8aWuuI 6PPALQKzmYZ5UXwV5UwRZUPd.kgzInJrBoODJKWNO5vKjtJrxtmZ_IbjMX.F b2xtE8ws273kzATx5HFqw7JYdV9ddD414mX5rsTZFAWxdsHUOp_kXR9Q- X-Received: from [75.164.17.160] by web113311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2012 10:26:13 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.117.340979 Message-ID: <1335893173.83210.YahooMailNeo@web113311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:26:13 -0700 (PDT) To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-589984161-106062403-1335893173=:83210" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Elfscribe Reply-To: Elfscribe Subject: Re: Re: Archive Bug (TinyMCE) Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124113093; y=5DiKhGjUooA80FdYD918WSBIi7ZUzCmXaKEpJNvpVqYGJ7dPqg X-Yahoo-Profile: elfscribe5 ---589984161-106062403-1335893173=:83210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hurray!=A0 Updating to Firefox 12 worked.=A0 Thanks Russandol and Rhapsody!= ~elfscribe ---589984161-106062403-1335893173=:83210 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hurray!  Up= dating to Firefox 12 worked.  Thanks Russandol and Rhapsody!
~elfscribe
---589984161-106062403-1335893173=:83210-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3440 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22493 invoked from network); 3 May 2012 01:16:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2012 01:16:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f182.google.com) (209.85.214.182) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2012 01:16:57 -0000 X-Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so2908586obc.27 for ; Wed, 02 May 2012 18:16:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.202.69 with SMTP id kg5mr367690obc.35.1336007816801; Wed, 02 May 2012 18:16:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.63.166 with HTTP; Wed, 2 May 2012 18:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 21:16:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f6438c25677a404bf178f37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: May 2012 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=T5E3CdyYa8nlBy2gmS7ZxwAyUgA8paIwL0PdH8eBh5WLntXV07ai X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f6438c25677a404bf178f37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, We're back on schedule for the newsletter after B2MeM, so May's edition has been posted on the website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/may2012.php We have news from within and outside of the SWG, a list of stories posted to the archive in April, a new set of challenges, and a character biography of Vaire the Weaver. (I didn't think there would be much to say about her when I started this one, but I found quite a bit that I found intriguing and surprising!) Many thanks to my comods Rhapsody and Angelica for their invaluable assistance putting this month's newsletter together. Enjoy! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f6438c25677a404bf178f37 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

We're back on schedule for the newslet= ter after B2MeM, so May's edition has been posted on the website:
=


We have news from within and outside of th= e SWG, a list of stories posted to the archive in April, a new set of chall= enges, and a character biography of Vaire the Weaver. (I didn't think t= here would be much to say about her when I started this one, but I found qu= ite a bit that I found intriguing and surprising!)

Many thanks to my comods Rhapsody and Angelica for their invaluable assis= tance putting this month's newsletter together.

Enjoy! :)

--e89a8f6438c25677a404bf178f37-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3441 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17717 invoked from network); 22 May 2012 02:17:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m10.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2012 02:17:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f178.google.com) (209.85.214.178) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2012 02:17:46 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f178.google.com with SMTP id eq6so9819131obc.9 for ; Mon, 21 May 2012 19:17:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.19.129 with SMTP id f1mr21356511oee.1.1337653066189; Mon, 21 May 2012 19:17:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.16.168 with HTTP; Mon, 21 May 2012 19:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 22:17:46 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c5c6d7cae204c0969f32 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2012 Brag & Rec Post X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=e1vdqelIEbU37GpUodlhQAixT3gHNcmirnNwCogxnpFVNoiXDNW2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff1c5c6d7cae204c0969f32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Because this year's B2MeM was immensely popular and generated an insane amount of stories and art, we've wanted to give participants and readers a chance to share their favorite pieces created for this year's challenge. I've created a post at the B2MeM community for recommending your favorite pieces, both those you created yourself and those created by other participants. http://b2mem.livejournal.com/197398.html Please do stop by and recommend some of your favorites! This will not only help future visitors to our community but will also let participants some well-earned bragging about their accomplishments! :) You do not have to have participated as a writer/artist to suggest your favorite pieces from this year's challenge, and you're more than welcome to list more than one. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff1c5c6d7cae204c0969f32 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Because this year's B2MeM was immensely pop= ular and generated an insane amount of stories and art, we've wanted to= give participants and readers a chance to share their favorite pieces crea= ted for this year's challenge. I've created a post at the B2MeM com= munity for recommending your favorite pieces, both those you created yourse= lf and those created by other participants.


Please do stop by and recommend = some of your favorites! This will not only help future visitors to our comm= unity but will also let participants some well-earned bragging about their = accomplishments! :)

You do not have to have parti= cipated as a writer/artist to suggest your favorite pieces from this year&#= 39;s challenge, and you're more than welcome to list more than one.

All the best,

--e89a8ff1c5c6d7cae204c0969f32-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3442 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67646 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2012 21:39:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m14.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2012 21:39:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f169.google.com) (209.85.214.169) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2012 21:39:15 -0000 X-Received: by obbwd18 with SMTP id wd18so6005151obb.0 for ; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 14:39:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.38.66 with SMTP id e2mr7333946obk.31.1338672836414; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 14:33:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.16.168 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 14:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 17:33:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d044787bbe28c2104c1840ea5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: June 2012 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rRb9Y_CMjkq1h9QXbXDXcysVrSGQjAG7z9FdIkK1SCR3C_LGFEGw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d044787bbe28c2104c1840ea5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, The June 2012 newsletter has been posted on our site! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/june2012.php We don't have a lot of site news this month, but we would like to remind those of you who read entries produced for B2MeM to please recommend your favorites; those of you who participated, please feel free to suggest your best pieces! We are compiling a list for the community and website. We have a couple of challenge announcements from other Tolkien groups as well in Around the World and Web. This month, Oshun continues and completes her two-part biography of Gandalf, undertaken for Back to Middle-earth Month. This month, she explores his role in the various stories he appears in and how he evolved as a character throughout the different texts. As always, the essay is insightful and informative and well worth the read! Finally, we have our ongoing challenge "Just Say It With a Gift!" and the "Sibling Rivalry" challenge revisited, in honor of our June Geminis, as well as a new quote of the month. You can also find a list of stories added to the archive during the month of May. Thank you to Oshun, Rhapsody, and Angelica for their assistance in producing the content for the newsletter! All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d044787bbe28c2104c1840ea5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

The June 2012 newsletter has been posted o= n our site!


We don't have a lot = of site news this month, but we would like to remind those of you who read = entries produced for B2MeM to please recommend your favorites; those of you= who participated, please feel free to suggest your best pieces! We are com= piling a list for the community and website. We have a couple of challenge = announcements from other Tolkien groups as well in Around the World and Web= .

This month, Oshun continues and completes her t= wo-part biography of Gandalf, undertaken for Back to Middle-earth Month. Th= is month, she explores his role in the various stories he appears in and ho= w he evolved as a character throughout the different texts. As always, the = essay is insightful and informative and well worth the read!
Finally, we have our ongoing challenge "Just Say It With a= Gift!" and the "Sibling Rivalry" challenge revisited, in ho= nor of our June Geminis, as well as a new quote of the month. You can also = find a list of stories added to the archive during the month of May.
=

Thank you to Oshun, Rhapsody, and Angelica for their as= sistance in producing the content for the newsletter!

<= div>All the best,

--f46d044787bbe28c2104c1840ea5-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3443 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45400 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2012 17:10:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m11.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2012 17:10:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng18-ip1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.215.102) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 2012 17:10:28 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.217.182] by ng18.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2012 17:10:28 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.184] by tg7.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2012 17:10:28 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:10:26 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "SilverT" Subject: (OT) Crossover with Fingon in it X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=muDUec7bLkMQI104mCOki4FuXVQqMg4-UE7XUXFpA00TQWJwXunZHg X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails Hi! I am writing a crossover with 6 characters, two of them from Tolkien U= niverse, and Fingon is one of them. The other is Elladan, and there are 4 o= ther boys from other fandoms. I don't consider it SWG material, but it is a= bout Fingon in a strange land and he'll have a role, so if you wish to chec= k, I've posted two parts already. Here is the link to the beginning of the = story: http://tati24.livejournal.com/287215.html If you read and have que= stions, ask them in my writing journal, please. :) CC From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3444 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8041 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2012 16:54:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jun 2012 16:54:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f181.google.com) (209.85.214.181) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2012 16:54:38 -0000 X-Received: by obbup19 with SMTP id up19so2006753obb.12 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:54:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.111.72 with SMTP id ig8mr12907433obb.35.1339952078252; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:54:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.16.168 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:54:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae939987da3ec5f04c2ade77b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: New Fanfic Award for Humorous Stories X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=HJbYfeH_NQHHRgxr-7PYY1dOQWkIRGHBaZJ81tIDd3iufSB1SNKL X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --14dae939987da3ec5f04c2ade77b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I've been contacted by a staff member from the Giggle/Snort Awards, an award for original and fan fiction in the humor genre. This year, the award is trying to set up a category for Tolkien-based humor pieces and has asked me to pass along information about the awards in case anyone is interested in nominating their favorite funny stories in our fandom! The award's website can be found here: http://awards.gigglesnort.net/news.php *Nominations close on 24 June,* so there's only about a week left. The staff member who contacted me assured me that, although the category is called "Lord of the Rings," anything from Tolkien's universe is eligible. Rules and more details can be found at the link above. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --14dae939987da3ec5f04c2ade77b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I've been contacted by a staff member from the Gig= gle/Snort Awards, an award for original and fan fiction in the humor genre.= This year, the award is trying to set up a category for Tolkien-based humo= r pieces and has asked me to pass along information about the awards in cas= e anyone is interested in nominating their favorite funny stories in our fa= ndom!

The award's website can be found here:

http://awards.gigglesnort.net/news.= php

Nominations close on 24 June, so there's only abo= ut a week left.

The staff member who contacted me assured me that, = although the category is called "Lord of the Rings," anything fro= m Tolkien's universe is eligible. Rules and more details can be found a= t the link above.

All the best,

Dawn

--=
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org
--14dae939987da3ec5f04c2ade77b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3445 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15735 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2012 00:45:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m14.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jun 2012 00:45:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng17-vm5.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.136.219.213) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jun 2012 00:45:42 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.0.86] by ng17.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2012 00:41:01 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by tg6.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2012 00:35:58 -0000 Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 00:35:57 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "Doc Bushwell" Subject: MEFAwards 2012 Ratings System: Objections and Alternative Proposals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=d9jLfanlKC4kBeCgoSkqjW6tfwVh-iXasRv1Nwd6afU1TD0Z-N8mM1Vq X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 FYI: for SWG members, who include MEFA participants, I am reposting from th= e MEFAwards Yahoo group. ~ Pandemonium [Note: This letter represents the = collective position of the MEFA participants listed below.] On the advent = of the MEFA 2012 season, we, the undersigned, wish to protest the proposed = new ratings system. Our objections are as follows: -- The Tolkien fan fict= ion community represents a wide array of interests, and the MEFAwards have = been inclusive of a variety of stories, from genfic to those with mature co= ntent. The proposed ratings system has the potential to decrease this diver= sity. -- Because ratings across archives are not harmonized, these present= a problem as applied broadly to the 2012 rating system and may favor submi= ssion of stories nominated from one archive over another. -- The ratings s= ystem places an undue burden on authors who write mature content by requiri= ng them to justify the literary merits of their stories and potentially dis= courages their participation in the awards. -- The ratings system also has= the potential to place an undue burden on the MEFA ratings panel and admin= istrators, who must vet the justifications noted above. --The proposed num= erical system on a scale of 1 to 6 adds yet more complexity to the MEFA nom= ination process. We recognize that at this time the new ratings system may= be difficult to overhaul for this season. However, we offer the following = proposals for consideration: -- For this season only, maintain the 1 to 6 = rating system, but rather than mandating written, detailed justification fr= om authors of nominated stories containing "5" content, trust that the auth= ors know that their mature content does not contain gratuitous sex, violenc= e, and/or gore. -- Addition of a check box to the nomination form that all= authors check off to indicate that they have read, understood, and have ap= plied the ratings system. -- Any objections to a nominated story should be= brought forward to the ratings panel, ideally comprising 5 individuals, in= cluding those who have experience with writing stories that contain mature = themes. -- The objections should be made no later than 4 weeks after the n= ominations have closed. -- The decision by the panel as to the suitability= of the story in question to remain in competition should be made within 1 = week maximum (2 weeks for a longer work). -- Stories receiving objections = that are not addressed within these designated timeframes should be allowed= to compete through the end of the voting season. For future MEFAs, we ask= that such major changes in policy are brought before the membership at lar= ge through mailing lists, LJ, or the Yahoo Groups prior to implementation. = Again, we recognize that the time may be too short to make significant chan= ges to the rating systems for the 2012 awards, but we request re-evaluation= of the current ratings system for the 2013 season. We appreciate all the = hard work that the MEFA administrators and volunteers have done in the past= and continue to do on behalf of our community. We present our concerns and= offer our proposals in order to engage in an open and transparent dialogue= meant to ensure that the awards remain a good experience for all members o= f our community. Signed, Ae=E4rwen Elfscribe Elleth Eruliss=EB Grey Gazan= ia Ignoble Bard Kimberleighe Jael Olorim=EB Oshun Pandemonium_213 Russandol= Scarlet10 Spiced Wine Surgical Steel Virtuella From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3446 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66269 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2012 21:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m9.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2012 21:57:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f172.google.com) (209.85.214.172) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2012 21:57:16 -0000 X-Received: by obbwc20 with SMTP id wc20so12197937obb.17 for ; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 14:57:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.169.98 with SMTP id ad2mr10167104obc.23.1341266236433; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 14:57:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.16.168 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 14:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:57:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f64345292651004c3dfe185 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Important MEFA Announcement X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8yHbT2gHttEkHAeHwflVQbzuCiWG1AfW7ew9KoN4Z7WfOVoUK7rM X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f64345292651004c3dfe185 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I am passing this on by request of Marta ... Hey guys, Over the last several days, the MEFAs' new policies about adult stories have attracted quite a bit of controversy. This has made me and several other MEFA volunteers realize that we are no longer interested in contributing to the awards. Because of that, the MEFAs will be ending, though we hope other people who have enjoyed them will consider setting up similar awards programs themselves. I realize this news may come as quite a shock. I ask that you read more about why we made this decision. You'll also find a poll. We are trying to decide whether to have one more season of the MEFAs, or whether 2011 should be our last year. If you have an opinion on this, please vote in our poll in ONE of the two places. (If you have neither an LJ nor a Yahoo account; email your choice to mefasupportATgmailDOTcom.) The poll will be open until 11:59 PM GMT on July 6. Yahoo: http://mefas.livejournal.com/309296.html LJ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/message/11257 Thanks for everyone's help, and for your understanding with this difficult decision. Marta MEFA Admin. -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f64345292651004c3dfe185 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am passing this on by request of Marta ...

Hey guys,

Over the last several days, the MEFAs' new policies a= bout adult=C2=A0stories have attracted quite a bit of controver= sy. This has made me=C2=A0and several other MEFA volunteers rea= lize that we are no longer=C2=A0interested in contributing to t= he awards. Because of that, the MEFAs
will be ending, thoug= h we hope other people who have enjoyed them will=C2=A0consid= er setting up similar awards programs themselves.=C2=A0
<= br>
I realize this news may come as quite a shock. I = ask that you read=C2=A0more about why we made this decision. Yo= u'll also find a poll. We are=C2=A0trying to decide whether= to have one more season of the MEFAs, or=C2=A0whether 2011 sho= uld be our last year. If you have an opinion on this,=C2=A0plea= se vote in our poll in ONE of the two places. (If you have neither an=C2=A0LJ=C2=A0nor a=C2=A0Yahoo=C2=A0account; email your choice to=C2=A0mefasupportATgma= ilDOTcom.) The poll will be open until 11:59 PM GMT on=C2=A0Jul= y 6.

Yahoo= :=C2=A0 http://mefas.livejournal.com/309296.html=C2=A0
LJ:=C2=A0 http://g= roups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/message/11257=C2=A0

Thanks= for everyone's help, and for your understanding with this=C2=A0= difficult decision.


Marta
MEFA Admin.


--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net= /heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8f64345292651004c3dfe185-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3447 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88896 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2012 01:37:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m15.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2012 01:37:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-yw0-f44.google.com) (209.85.213.44) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2012 01:37:40 -0000 X-Received: by mail-yw0-f44.google.com with SMTP id 56so6762769yhq.31 for ; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 18:37:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.163.5 with SMTP id ye5mr6983424igb.37.1341279459716; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 18:37:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.42.209.83 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 18:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 21:37:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f923ba4bdadfc04c3e2f543 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: July 2012 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=DSpN7m5Mr2yVzSmSMb5CSEbPte5nsr_gi6ijGCZ8jwnGal7Awqcz X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f923ba4bdadfc04c3e2f543 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The newsletter for July 2012 has been posted! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/july2012.php This month, we have a new challenge to hopefully inspire our authors. What formative memories do you characters bring with them from childhood? Write a story about one of them for our "Of All That Remains" challenge. We also revisit a past challenge ("The End is the Beginning") and have a new quote of the month to inspire you. Do you write femslash? Have you wanted to give this genre a try? Once again, the SWG will be participating in the International Day of Femslash, which is scheduled this year for July 14. This year, IDF will also be holding an online FemSlashCon that weekend; the News section has more details. We have a lot of announcements from outside the SWG as well: a new Big Bang challenge, loads of challenges from other Tolkien groups, and some important announcements from the folks at the MEFAs. Finally, you can get a recap of the stories posted to our archive this month. Many thanks to Rhapsody for her help in putting together this month's newsletter content! Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f923ba4bdadfc04c3e2f543 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The newsletter for July 2012 has been posted!

http://www.= silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/july2012.php

This month, we ha= ve a new challenge to hopefully inspire our authors. What formative memorie= s do you characters bring with them from childhood? Write a story about one= of them for our "Of All That Remains" challenge. We also revisit= a past challenge ("The End is the Beginning") and have a new quo= te of the month to inspire you.

Do you write femslash? Have you wan= ted to give this genre a try? Once again, the SWG will be participating in = the International Day of Femslash, which is scheduled this year for July 14= . This year, IDF will also be holding an online FemSlashCon that weekend; t= he News section has more details.

We have a lot of announcements fr= om outside the SWG as well: a new Big Bang challenge, loads of challenges f= rom other Tolkien groups, and some important announcements from the folks a= t the MEFAs.

Finally, you can get a recap of the stories posted to o= ur archive this month.

Many thanks to Rhapsody for her help in putt= ing together this month's newsletter content! Enjoy!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org
--e89a8f923ba4bdadfc04c3e2f543-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3448 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40340 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2012 14:59:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m9.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2012 14:59:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f182.google.com) (209.85.214.182) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2012 14:59:38 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id un3so7244125obb.41 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 07:59:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.169.98 with SMTP id ad2mr17620650obc.23.1341413978063; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 07:59:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.56.164 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 07:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 10:59:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f643452a8c2a404c4024780 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: The End of the MEFAs and the Start of Something New X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=S-kMhA0u3whc19HZlVFsjkQZiQUABn7shQaknAjLWnB1YtnQKkTl X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f643452a8c2a404c4024780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I forwarded a post the other day from Marta, the MEFA admin, about the ending of the MEFAs. The MEFAs ran for eight years, which is a tremendous run for something so large and complex, but the official word came in yesterday: Do to technical issues that were proving unexpectedly difficult to resolve, the 2012 MEFAs will *not* occur. The 2011 season was the last. However, the spirit of our fandom is not easily quelled and, within the day of the announcement of the MEFA's ending, a group of folks were working to set up a new, inclusive Tolkien fandom award. At this point, they are laying the foundation to build these new awards upon, starting by seeing 1) who is interested in participating as a volunteer and 2) what, specifically, they wish to do. The new awards will be similar to the MEFAs in that they will be review-based but more inclusive of all types of Tolkien-based stories. Or that's my understanding. (I am not a founder or an admin in this group but have been following it with obvious great interest. :) If you'd like to get involved, please check out this LJ post here, where you can see in what areas volunteers are being sought and sign up to help, if you want: http://mefa-ratings.livejournal.com/2844.html Other threads on that community have a lot of discussion going on about the direction for the new awards, so do feel free to weigh in there as well. Finally, please help get the word out to other Tolkien groups that may be interested in this. As noted above, the project wishes to be inclusive, so while many of the founders come from the *Silmarillion* community, this is not a Silm-only award, and all are welcome. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f643452a8c2a404c4024780 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I forwarded a post the other day from Marta, the MEFA admin= , about the ending of the MEFAs. The MEFAs ran for eight years, which is a = tremendous run for something so large and complex, but the official word ca= me in yesterday: Do to technical issues that were proving unexpectedly diff= icult to resolve, the 2012 MEFAs will not occur. The 2011 season was= the last.

However, the spirit of our fandom is not easily quelled = and, within the day of the announcement of the MEFA's ending, a group o= f folks were working to set up a new, inclusive Tolkien fandom award. At th= is point, they are laying the foundation to build these new awards upon, st= arting by seeing 1) who is interested in participating as a volunteer and 2= ) what, specifically, they wish to do. The new awards will be similar to th= e MEFAs in that they will be review-based but more inclusive of all types o= f Tolkien-based stories. Or that's my understanding. (I am not a founde= r or an admin in this group but have been following it with obvious great i= nterest. :)

If you'd like to get involved, please check out thi= s LJ post here, where you can see in what areas volunteers are being sought= and sign up to help, if you want:

http://mefa-ratings.livejournal.com/2844.html<= br>
Other threads on that community have a lot of discussion going on a= bout the direction for the new awards, so do feel free to weigh in there as= well.

Finally, please help get the word out to other Tolkien groups= that may be interested in this. As noted above, the project wishes to be i= nclusive, so while many of the founders come from the Silmarillion c= ommunity, this is not a Silm-only award, and all are welcome.

All t= he best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens= .net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8f643452a8c2a404c4024780-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3449 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85165 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2012 13:32:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2012 13:32:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f177.google.com) (209.85.214.177) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2012 13:32:54 -0000 X-Received: by obbta17 with SMTP id ta17so21629657obb.22 for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 06:32:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.162.101 with SMTP id xz5mr5729716obb.47.1341581574440; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 06:32:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.14.200 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:32:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 09:32:54 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f839d332e85b604c4294d09 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: MEFA Announcement: The End of the MEFAs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=9BbPXtIxxVwsXrPDveHd5W4kKtC-SebMIZ1PqjpW1k78Qc5lmS7I X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f839d332e85b604c4294d09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Passing this on by request of Marta ... Greetings, all. It's my sad duty to inform you that last year's MEFAs will be our last season of those awards. I used my final announcement a few days ago to acknowledge some (but by no means all!) of our many committed volunteers. You can read it here: http://mefas.livejournal.com/309993.html Old nominations, reviews, and and results will remain available at our website, http://www.mefawards.org/ . You can also reach me with any questions/concerns about the MEFAs by email: martaDOTfandomATgmailDOTcom. Thank you to everyone who nominated a story, wrote a review, or volunteered in any capacity as part of this event - it's been a great ride! Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo, Marta (MEFA Admin.) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f839d332e85b604c4294d09 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Passing this on by request of Marta ...

Greetings, all.

It's my sad duty to inform you that last year's = MEFAs will be our last season of those awards. I used my final announcemen= t a few days ago to acknowledge some (but by no means all!) of our many co= mmitted volunteers. You can read it here:


Old nominations= , reviews, and and results will remain available at our website, http://www.mefawards.org/= . You can also reach me with any questions/concerns about the MEFAs by ema= il: martaDOTfandomATgmailDOTcom.

Thank you = to everyone who nominated a story, wrote a review, or volunteered in any c= apacity as part of this event - it's been a great ride!

=
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo,

Marta=C2= =A0
(MEFA Admin.)


--
~oOo~
Dawn= Felagund
http:/= /themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8f839d332e85b604c4294d09-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3450 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92323 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2012 13:28:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2012 13:28:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f169.google.com) (209.85.214.169) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2012 13:28:57 -0000 X-Received: by obhx4 with SMTP id x4so9883422obh.14 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 06:28:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.72.9 with SMTP id z9mr11028814obu.5.1342358936611; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 06:28:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.14.200 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 06:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 09:28:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: LOTR_Community_GFIC , SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04462fbc93ec0f04c4de4b22 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: "Story of the Hobbit" Online Course This Fall X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Hi2f_j4CV0ARjB2k83W3az1XwIzjtbzNbSbwZ-M4Bz_XinjD2a-R X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d04462fbc93ec0f04c4de4b22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, The Mythgard Institute released their fall course list yesterday, and one course in particular might be of interest to Tolkien fans. They are running a 12-week course, "The Story of *The Hobbit*," taught by Professor Corey Olsen. http://www.mythgard.org/academics/fall-2012-course/the-story-of-the-hobbit/ For those of you unfamiliar with Mythgard, they offer online courses in fantasy studies and Tolkien studies. The courses can be taken for MA credit or audited. I'm auditing their Introductory Latin I course this summer, and my husband is auditing a course on Arthurian legends. We've both enjoyed our courses and learned a lot so far! The *Hobbit* course appears to focus on the literary precursors of *The Hobbit,* the evolution of the story itself, and the reception of the story and its eventual evolution into film, including a bonus session at the end of December to discuss the new * Hobbit* movie. It looks like a fascinating course and I thought there might be interest here, especially since their audit rates are very reasonable. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d04462fbc93ec0f04c4de4b22 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

The Mythgard Institute released their fall course list= yesterday, and one course in particular might be of interest to Tolkien fa= ns. They are running a 12-week course, "The Story of The Hobbit= ," taught by Professor Corey Olsen.

http://www.my= thgard.org/academics/fall-2012-course/the-story-of-the-hobbit/

F= or those of you unfamiliar with Mythgard, they offer online courses in fant= asy studies and Tolkien studies. The courses can be taken for MA credit or = audited. I'm auditing their Introductory Latin I course this summer, an= d my husband is auditing a course on Arthurian legends. We've both enjo= yed our courses and learned a lot so far! The Hobbit course appears = to focus on the literary precursors of The Hobbit, the evolution of = the story itself, and the reception of the story and its eventual evolution= into film, including a bonus session at the end of December to discuss the= new Hobbit movie.

It looks like a fascinating course and I = thought there might be interest here, especially since their audit rates ar= e very reasonable.

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fe= lagund
http://th= emidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d04462fbc93ec0f04c4de4b22-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3451 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61848 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2012 00:19:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2012 00:19:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f171.google.com) (209.85.214.171) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2012 00:19:55 -0000 X-Received: by obqv19 with SMTP id v19so11665402obq.2 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:19:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.29.230 with SMTP id n6mr25952717oeh.22.1343780394817; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:19:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.14.200 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:19:54 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c14616d88f04c62941c7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=SIcW50ICVo9gNlhRrmAJoFyNNrMhuJUDYuC2ZxvmEamDDoTYFu9K X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff1c14616d88f04c62941c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, I am passing this on behalf of Neume for the Tales of Middle-eart= h (ToME) Awards. Dawn ---- =E2=80=9CI think I'm... quite ready for anoth= er adventure.=E2=80=9D Bilbo Baggins: Return of the King As you may or may= not have heard, the Middle-earth Fan Fiction Awards have come to a close. = Whereas the MEFA archives will remain active for general perusal, the award= s themselves will no longer take place. However, a group of former MEFA par= ticipants have begun the process of building a new readers' choice awards f= or the Tolkien fandom. The Tales of Middle Earth Awards present the entire= Tolkien fan community an opportunity to help build an award system from th= e ground up, and be a part of this evolution of our collective pastime. Th= ose of you that would like to see how the new awards are developing may joi= n us at the ToME Awards Planning community on Live Journal ( http://tome-aw= ards.livejournal.com/). You do NOT have to sign up for a (free) Live Jour= nal account to view and comment; anonymous posting is allowed in the group,= though we like to know your fannish name if you enter discussion. Additio= nally, Open ID will allow you to leave signed comments on our LJ community = just as if you had a LiveJournal account. If you use Gmail, Yahoo!, Blogger= , Myspace, Flickr, AOL, or WordPress, you likely already have an Open ID! M= ore information on Open ID can be found at http://openid.net/ Sound like a= fun way to celebrate our fandom? We=E2=80=99d love your help! To voluntee= r, please visit the Welcome Post at http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/2443= 1.html, and then stop by the Volunteer Roles thread athttp://tome-awards.li= vejournal.com/3611.html to see where your individual talents could be of be= st use. The Volunteer Pool at ToME is looking forward to your participatio= n and questions. Thanks for reading! ToME Promotion Team, "Taskforce 10" = Members: blslarner elleth huinare neumeindil surgicalsteel thelauderdale e= lfscribe Steward: willtherebetime -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidha= vens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff1c14616d88f04c62941c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I am passing this on behalf of Neume for the Ta= les of Middle-earth (ToME) Awards.

Dawn
=
----

=E2=80=9CI think I'm... quite ready for anothe= r adventure.=E2=80=9D
Bilbo Baggins= : Return of the King

As you may or may not have heard, th= e Middle-earth Fan Fiction Awards have come to a close. Whereas the MEFA ar= chives will remain active for general perusal, the awards themselves will n= o longer take place. However, a group of former MEFA participants have begu= n the process of building a new readers' choice awards for the Tolkien = fandom.

The Tales of Middle Earth Awards present the enti= re Tolkien fan community an opportunity to help build an award system from = the ground up, and be a part of this evolution of our collective pastime.

Those of you that would like to see how the new awards are= developing may join us at the ToME Awards Planning community on Live Journ= al (http://tome-awards.live= journal.com/).


You do = NOT have to sign up for a (free) Live Journal account to view and comment; = anonymous posting is allowed in the group, though we like to know your fann= ish name if you enter discussion.

Additionally, Open ID will allow y= ou to leave signed comments on our LJ community just as if you had a LiveJo= urnal account. If you use Gmail, Yahoo!, Blogger, Myspace, Flickr, AOL, or = WordPress, you likely already have an Open ID! More information on Open ID = can be found athttp://openid.net/

Sound l= ike a fun way to celebrate our fandom? We=E2=80=99d love your help!

= To volunteer, please visit the Welcome Post at=C2=A0http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/24431.html, and then stop b= y the Volunteer Roles thread athttp://tome-a= wards.livejournal.com/3611.html=C2=A0to see where your individual talen= ts could be of best use.=C2=A0

The Volunteer Pool at ToME is lookin= g forward to your participation and questions.

Thanks for reading!
ToME Promotion Team, "Taskforce 10"

Members:=C2=A0blslarner
elleth
huinare
neumeindil
surgicalsteel
thelaud= erdale
elfsc= ribe

Steward:
willtherebetime=C2=A0
--e89a8ff1c14616d88f04c62941c7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3452 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58108 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2012 16:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2012 16:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm34-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.229.80) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2012 16:02:43 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.90.55] by nm34.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 16:02:42 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.226.167] by tm8.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 16:02:42 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1068.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 16:02:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 912041.62148.bm@omp1068.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 85464 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Aug 2012 16:02:42 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: TFFhuX4VM1kbL2QTX3UPhxK3SbmTDmOVU8Vp_JVm55BRkES FrM8i3t.jFenMbThCVVAnsTNkx6RT7MsjOOb4vQk99u6xsJ3bMOqWjGoUFCP fOUWZijaB_F1FNAC1kdAKf8l_JbhD1SZY6KkhnT4HvebXqz5.0dU0kCD.Ny6 DE8uFYtWzOq6fov3WqsHudcsTZTTkin9JDiIxJqqrOwVSbAmJft6voKrB5a2 6cfR1.D2Yk2RYuhFdfsDX3vJ.Q_X1Zn3W2Jf_h9ZcXsK2k7yePg.TDba0FiD Xdx7efAiyNjRSGww5nC6ta83rtL1A19qcMWzHpRDpsGk8HcYLzcyhy6mEbE9 OEreKR7fbsNThFzd_LNi8NB4wnN8Gqy3M0Y5uh_9JV9_2kiXTA35O4Mo0Uc3 09RDDxT0kRXcoUYFf7MO1O1uYNB2xLCmmYLIvklEQw5qIw3K7cPdAsw_ZQ14 jyDco71dPev9fzhoUh6NR4aB3xw4s3AqkB.eGN2MMbmsssfmMahK78K3Oqz3 KzMSQqS7rUab2GZnCHR3rS8t7xklCfd.soU5GGrVZFSNWFdLQm9CiFdoGINc F4fhe4QfatsfPZzmq7gVB4A9ui6aO9uFRAT5wbTiauWpV521jBCdIsNnMdHy eacYRyjk7AGKQbRws28S5jj6YO_0_dZG.YLiW2BDu4.w7SEnw_LGVxBMSfQQ qEz14icgcYwECQJE9izNaHbaWceRm4PhWEqRcuIHZRLlqDgxkzlce0ylAD00 uQZZ.XQJgtW0YKJpJUpXqtlf7dpLEwVfo4.SWdrQLekBUh.K1iWMPeJzUxTZ aH9Sog99Ro0Uz_8_nUE9OcNkkaYpw6yvhHYQRM6CeBvhfn0v1AuxKta8cxii W0ks7TGhypYYXJ7_qsme69KnR7PuK.B3zQXa5sCgubX.i_4eOFp2fctRDd6H mIYjwmt9jDPGMYwQbLY1lbh4X.qwozN1dPBiYy4284a21Ka3lOHZzm4rJXQQ fC6FYhXZT95DcEF1V29WYcUbhklDt1BSt2DN5J9SYUYeAdmM1LJsPGksEjTZ aIF8AsPIU_VEPZOF3H4pnE2EE1eEl0yIdemZtB9r438aCTC1i6nwYoEvxg2Z 0urWFPd_988GrpIxs8VhJj_TZbzcMrE.WkitOwbYvCGvSqGGRcbjvARkOgzU a0viqA4TZFpJMbnpaVMGE4ogTj_t2yj4E0BdImwOQEBIfyboYpLHdCmT_CMu .iQr6xcbgp2hvc20JYyprMwWc6D1o9GteZbqDuvF2WU79sEXBdGizE4Q2gTO R1x1pG26K9yV5Wam.oFgXjp4xTnpQPE3DBOKwqdQaEYEoPsnLII5ARM2Xol. 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X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=4GybcpiiOtq5tQg8os6EJiGaotZCAZNC_hCBv0hqBA6n2Reul7_5Xw X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails --737196383-96086907-1343836961=:85231 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =C2=A0 I suppose many people in the new awards are here, so I'll commen= t here and hope it's okay with Dawn. If it's not, tell me and I'll erase my= post. =C2=A0 I am sure my idea won't change anything because I believe yo= u mean=C2=A0to replicate the MEFAS in some way, but I thought I'd say what = I think anyway. There are contests where people send their fics themselves,= and then all the fics are uploaded without a name on them. And people vote= without knowing who wrote each fic. Of course you'll know who the author i= s if you've read the fic before, but if you haven't read it, you won't know= and there will be some measure of objectivity in your vote. =C2=A0 I know= it's complicated to do, and that this is not the path you've chosen, but I= got three awards on 2004 with fics that were=C2=A0not really that good. At= least one of them was bad, I think. But my friends=C2=A0loved them and nom= inated them, and it was the first run of the award, so there were few nomin= ations. I don't mean to say that the voting system is wrong, but it has a s= mall flaw that might be solved if the fics were uploaded without the author= 's names. The good authors would=C2=A0win anyway. :) =C2=A0 CC _________= _______________________ From: Dawn Felagund To: S= WG Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012= 7:19 PM Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Lo= oking for Volunteers! =C2=A0 Hi, all, I am passing this on behal= f of Neume for the Tales of Middle-earth (ToME) Awards. Dawn ---- =E2=80= =9CI think I'm... quite ready for another adventure.=E2=80=9D Bilbo Baggins= : Return of the King As you may or may not have heard, the Middle-earth Fa= n Fiction Awards have come to a close. Whereas the MEFA archives will remai= n active for general perusal, the awards themselves will no longer take pla= ce. However, a group of former MEFA participants have begun the process of = building a new readers' choice awards for the Tolkien fandom. The Tales of= Middle Earth Awards present the entire Tolkien fan community an opportunit= y to help build an award system from the ground up, and be a part of this e= volution of our collective pastime. Those of you that would like to see ho= w the new awards are developing may join us at the ToME Awards Planning com= munity on Live Journal (http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/). You do NOT = have to sign up for a (free) Live Journal account to view and comment; anon= ymous posting is allowed in the group, though we like to know your fannish = name if you enter discussion. Additionally, Open ID will allow you to leav= e signed comments on our LJ community just as if you had a LiveJournal acco= unt. If you use Gmail, Yahoo!, Blogger, Myspace, Flickr, AOL, or WordPress,= you likely already have an Open ID! More information on Open ID can be fou= nd athttp://openid.net/ Sound like a fun way to celebrate our fandom? We= =E2=80=99d love your help! To volunteer, please visit the Welcome Post at= =C2=A0http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/24431.html, and then stop by the V= olunteer Roles thread athttp://tome-awards.livejournal.com/3611.html=C2=A0t= o see where your individual talents could be of best use.=C2=A0 The Volunt= eer Pool at ToME is looking forward to your participation and questions. T= hanks for reading! ToME Promotion Team, "Taskforce 10" Members:=C2=A0 bls= larner elleth huinare neumeindil surgicalsteel thelauderdale elfscribe Ste= ward: willtherebetime=C2=A0 -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.ne= t/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --737196383-96086907-1343836961=:85231 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,=
 
I suppose many people in the= new awards are here, so I'll comment here and hope it's okay with Dawn. If= it's not, tell me and I'll erase my post.
&= nbsp;
I am sure my idea won't change anything because I bel= ieve you mean to replicate the MEFAS in some way, but I thought I'd sa= y what I think anyway. There are contests where people send their fics them= selves, and then all the fics are uploaded without a name on them. And peop= le vote without knowing who wrote each fic. Of course you'll know who the a= uthor is if you've read the fic before, but if you haven't read it, you won= 't know and there will be some measure of objectivity in your vote. =
 
I know it's complicated to = do, and that this is not the path you've chosen, but I got three awards on = 2004 with fics that were not really that good. At least one of them wa= s bad, I think. But my friends loved them and nominated them, and it w= as the first run of the award, so there were few nominations. I don't mean = to say that the voting system is wrong, but it has a small flaw that might = be solved if the fics were uploaded without the author's names. The good au= thors would win anyway. :)
 
<= div>CC

From: Dawn Fe= lagund
To: SWG Sent: Tuesday, July 31,= 2012 7:19 PM
Subject:= [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunte= ers!

<= span style=3D"display: none;"> 
Hi, all,

I am passin= g this on behalf of Neume for the Tales of Middle-earth (ToME) Awards.

Dawn

----

=E2=80=9CI thi= nk I'm... quite ready for another adventure.=E2=80=9D
Bilbo Baggins: Return of the King

As y= ou may or may not have heard, the Middle-earth Fan Fiction Awards have come= to a close. Whereas the MEFA archives will remain active for general perus= al, the awards themselves will no longer take place. However, a group of fo= rmer MEFA participants have begun the process of building a new readers' ch= oice awards for the Tolkien fandom.

<= span style=3D"color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-= size: 13.33px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The Tales of Middle E= arth Awards present the entire Tolkien fan community an opportunity to help= build an award system from the ground up, and be a part of this evolution = of our collective pastime.

Those of you that would like t= o see how the new awards are developing may join us at the ToME Awards Plan= ning community on Live Journal (http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/<= span style=3D"color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-= size: 13.33px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">).


You do NOT have to sig= n up for a (free) Live Journal account to view and comment; anonymous posti= ng is allowed in the group, though we like to know your fannish name if you= enter discussion.

Additionally, Open ID will allow you to leave sig= ned comments on our LJ community just as if you had a LiveJournal account. = If you use Gmail, Yahoo!, Blogger, Myspace, Flickr, AOL, or WordPress, you = likely already have an Open ID! More information on Open ID can be found at= http://openid.net/

Sound like a fun way to celebrate our fandom? We= =E2=80=99d love your help!

To volunteer, please visit the Welcome Po= st at http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/24431.html, and then stop by = the Volunteer Roles thread athttp://tome-awards.livejournal.com/3611.html&n= bsp;to see where your individual talents could be of best use. 
The Volunteer Pool at ToME is looking forward to your participation and q= uestions.

Thanks for reading!

ToME Promotion Team, "Taskforce= 10"

Members: 
blslarner
elleth
huinare
neumeindil=
surgicalsteel
thelauderdale
elfscribe

Ste= ward:
willtherebetime <= br clear=3D"all">

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://the= midhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.o= rg


--737196383-96086907-1343836961=:85231-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3453 Return-Path: X-Sender: heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29903 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2012 17:46:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m11.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2012 17:46:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-db03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.91.97) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2012 17:46:26 -0000 X-Received: from mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.77]) by imr-db03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q71HkFDb025538 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 13:46:15 -0400 X-Received: from core-dja002a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dja002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.69.5]) by mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 048A6E00009B for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 13:46:15 -0400 (EDT) References: <1343836961.85231.YahooMailNeo@web120005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1343836961.85231.YahooMailNeo@web120005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CF3E24AE44D4F3_2250_67FEA_webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36786-STANDARD X-Received: from 24.193.120.181 by webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com (64.12.101.226) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 13:46:14 -0400 Message-Id: <8CF3E24AD69D55F-2250-1C60E@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 13:46:14 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:517638400:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 7 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d294d50196b673701 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=8KY9UjvZ9M0x3o_cQVPLDsJfp_GBMKmw2fK8D0CLkLldiMGUO4rV X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CF3E24AE44D4F3_2250_67FEA_webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" You are right that people want the familiarity of the MEFAs, only refreshed= a bit, democratized, and with some of the more annoying edges sanded down.= I think that is perfectly legitimate to suggest other types of awards as w= ell. I basically always loyally supported the MEFAs as the only game in t= own. Not because I liked very much about its setup or even liked its princi= ples or goals. What I did and do like and really want is the opportunity to= give authors who work so very hard and share their work so generously som= e kind of credit for what they produce, something that recognizes their att= empts to hone their craft, try to entertain and engage, and also explore th= e canon in many different ways. I think these new awards do attempt to kee= p the basic premises of the MEFAs in place with some long-needed refinement= s and revisions. I think I will be fat less cranky with the new setup than = I was with the old, because enormous effort has been expended to make them = more inclusive and with a greater ear to the ground, trying to determine wh= at people want and need which does not shut out anyone else. But it would= be someday fun to have an award system which looks at different aspects of= the literature. I don't know if anonymous would be my answer necessarily. = Hey, who knows what kinds of things there might be an interest in if the fa= ndom were larger. It was already shrinking I came around (and, frankly, tha= t was not all bad either!). Have you seen Zhie's proposed awards--smaller= and lighter in spirit. -----Original Message----- From: Silver Tra= ils To: SilmarillionWritersGuild Sent: Wed, Aug 1, 2012 12:02 pm Subject: Re: [Si= lmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers!= Hi, I suppose many people in the new award= s are here, so I'll comment here and hope it's okay with Dawn. If it's not,= tell me and I'll erase my post. I am sure my idea won't change anything= because I believe you mean to replicate the MEFAS in some way, but I thoug= ht I'd say what I think anyway. There are contests where people send their = fics themselves, and then all the fics are uploaded without a name on them.= And people vote without knowing who wrote each fic. Of course you'll know = who the author is if you've read the fic before, but if you haven't read it= , you won't know and there will be some measure of objectivity in your vote= . I know it's complicated to do, and that this is not the path you've ch= osen, but I got three awards on 2004 with fics that were not really that go= od. At least one of them was bad, I think. But my friends loved them and no= minated them, and it was the first run of the award, so there were few nomi= nations. I don't mean to say that the voting system is wrong, but it has a = small flaw that might be solved if the fics were uploaded without the autho= r's names. The good authors would win anyway. :) CC From: D= awn Felagund To: SWG Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 7:19 PM Subject: [Silmarilli= onWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! = Hi, all, I am passing this on behalf of Neume for= the Tales of Middle-earth (ToME) Awards. Dawn ---- =E2=80=9CI think = I'm... quite ready for another adventure.=E2=80=9D Bilbo Baggins: Return of= the King As you may or may not have heard, the Middle-earth Fan Fiction A= wards have come to a close. Whereas the MEFA archives will remain active fo= r general perusal, the awards themselves will no longer take place. However= , a group of former MEFA participants have begun the process of building a = new readers' choice awards for the Tolkien fandom. The Tales of Middle Ear= th Awards present the entire Tolkien fan community an opportunity to help b= uild an award system from the ground up, and be a part of this evolution of= our collective pastime. Those of you that would like to see how the new a= wards are developing may join us at the ToME Awards Planning community on L= ive Journal (http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/). You do NOT have to sig= n up for a (free) Live Journal account to view and comment; anonymous posti= ng is allowed in the group, though we like to know your fannish name if you= enter discussion. Additionally, Open ID will allow you to leave signed co= mments on our LJ community just as if you had a LiveJournal account. If you= use Gmail, Yahoo!, Blogger, Myspace, Flickr, AOL, or WordPress, you likely= already have an Open ID! More information on Open ID can be found athttp:/= /openid.net/ Sound like a fun way to celebrate our fandom? We=E2=80=99d lo= ve your help! To volunteer, please visit the Welcome Post at http://tome-a= wards.livejournal.com/24431.html, and then stop by the Volunteer Roles thre= ad athttp://tome-awards.livejournal.com/3611.html to see where your individ= ual talents could be of best use. The Volunteer Pool at ToME is looking f= orward to your participation and questions. Thanks for reading! ToME Prom= otion Team, "Taskforce 10" Members: blslarner elleth huinare neumeindil s= urgicalsteel thelauderdale elfscribe Steward: willtherebetime -- ~oO= o~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org ----------MB_8CF3E24AE44D4F3_2250_67FEA_webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" You are right that people want the famili= arity of the MEFAs, only refreshed a bit, democratized, and with some of th= e more annoying edges sanded down. I think that is perfectly = legitimate to suggest other types of awards as well.
=
I basically always loyally supported the MEFAs as the only game in tow= n. Not because I liked very much about its setup or even liked its principl= es or goals. What I did and do like and really want is the opportunity to g= ive authors who work so very hard  and share their work so generously = some kind of credit for what they produce, something that recognizes their = attempts to hone their craft, try to entertain and engage, and also explore= the canon in many different ways.

I think these new awards do att= empt to keep the basic premises of the MEFAs in place with some long-needed= refinements and revisions. I think I will be fat less cranky with the new = setup than I was with the old, because enormous effort has been expended to= make them more inclusive and with a greater ear to the ground, trying to d= etermine what people want and need which does not shut out anyone else.
But it would be someday fun to have an award system which looks at d= ifferent aspects of the literature. I don't know if anonymous would be my a= nswer necessarily. Hey, who knows what kinds of things there might be an in= terest in if the fandom were larger. It was already shrinking I came around= (and, frankly, that was not all bad either!).

Have you seen Zhie= 's proposed awards--smaller and lighter in spirit.


=



-----Original Message-----
Fr= om: Silver Trails
To: SilmarillionWr= itersGuild
Sent: We= d, Aug 1, 2012 12:02 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tale= s of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers!

=  
=
Hi,
 
I suppose many p= eople in the new awards are here, so I'll comment here and hope it's okay w= ith Dawn. If it's not, tell me and I'll erase my post.
=
 
I am sure my idea won't c= hange anything because I believe you mean to replicate the MEFAS in so= me way, but I thought I'd say what I think anyway. There are contests where= people send their fics themselves, and then all the fics are uploaded with= out a name on them. And people vote without knowing who wrote each fic. Of = course you'll know who the author is if you've read the fic before, but if = you haven't read it, you won't know and there will be some measure of objec= tivity in your vote.
 
=
I know it's complicated to do, and that this is not the pa= th you've chosen, but I got three awards on 2004 with fics that were n= ot really that good. At least one of them was bad, I think. But my friends&= nbsp;loved them and nominated them, and it was the first run of the award, = so there were few nominations. I don't mean to say that the voting system i= s wrong, but it has a small flaw that might be solved if the fics were uplo= aded without the author's names. The good authors would win anyway. :)=
 
CC

=
From: Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.com>
<= b>To: SWG <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo= groups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 7:19 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-ea= rth Award Looking for Volunteers!

<= div id=3D"yiv829764768">
  =
Hi, all= ,

I am passing this on behalf of Neume f= or the Tales of Middle-earth (ToME) Awards.

Dawn

----
=

=E2=80=9CI think I'm... quite ready for another adventure.= =E2=80=9D
Bilbo Baggins: Return of the Ki= ng

As you may or may not have heard, the Middle-earth Fan Fiction = Awards have come to a close. Whereas the MEFA archives will remain active f= or general perusal, the awards themselves will no longer take place. Howeve= r, a group of former MEFA participants have begun the process of building a= new readers' choice awards for the Tolkien fandom.

The Tales of M= iddle Earth Awards present the entire Tolkien fan community an opportunity = to help build an award system from the ground up, and be a part of this evo= lution of our collective pastime.

Those of you that would like to = see how the new awards are developing may join us at the ToME Awards Planni= ng community on Live Journal (http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/).


You do NOT have to sign u= p for a (free) Live Journal account to view and comment; anonymous posting = is allowed in the group, though we like to know your fannish name if you en= ter discussion.

Additionally, Open ID will allow you to leav= e signed comments on our LJ community just as if you had a LiveJournal acco= unt. If you use Gmail, Yahoo!, Blogger, Myspace, Flickr, AOL, or WordPress,= you likely already have an Open ID! More information on Open ID can be fou= nd athttp://openid.net/

Sound like a fun way to celebrate o= ur fandom? We=E2=80=99d love your help!

To volunteer, please= visit the Welcome Post at http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/24431.h= tml, and then stop by the Volunteer Roles thread athttp://tome-awards.l= ivejournal.com/3611.html to see where your individual talents could be= of best use. 

The Volunteer Pool at ToME is looking f= orward to your participation and questions.

Thanks for readi= ng!

ToME Promotion Team, "Taskforce 10"

Membe= rs: 
blslarner
elleth
huinare
neumeindil<= br> surgicalsteel
thelauderdale
elfscribe

Steward:
willtherebetime 

--
~oOo~
= Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
= h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
=


=
=
<= /font> ----------MB_8CF3E24AE44D4F3_2250_67FEA_webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3454 Return-Path: X-Sender: surgsteel@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98887 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2012 18:25:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m16.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2012 18:25:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng9-ip1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.215.180) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2012 18:25:17 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.217.179] by ng9.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 18:25:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.155] by tg4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 18:25:16 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:25:16 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8CF3E24AD69D55F-2250-1C60E@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "surgeon_ruth" Subject: Re: Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=328688752; y=A-NmSuCs-xeKW6qRQG7q6Je2xqSsgDyXBgjnkIV6BffSSTG2rD9W X-Yahoo-Profile: surgeon_ruth I'm also a bit dubious about just how 'anonymous' fic review actually is. I= 'm a HASA reviewer, and that review process is supposedly anonymous. Howeve= r, I find that for the more prolific authors in the fandom, I frequently ca= n figure out who wrote the fic just by the description - and if I can't fig= ure it out from the description, I know within a paragraph or two of readin= g, even if I haven't read the fic elsewhere before. My guesses have been ri= ght the majority of the time - it's a combination of distinctive style and = knowing what topics certain authors generally write about. In a few cases,= I've even Googled the first couple of lines of a fic to see if my guess wa= s correct and have found the story, the author, the other archive, the date= posted, etc. Point is, it's next to impossible in the Tolkien fandom to t= ruly blind the reviewing process unless it's a really new author in the fan= dom and they haven't posted the work anywhere else on the internet. --- In= SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote: > > You = are right that people want the familiarity of the MEFAs, only refreshed a b= it, democratized, and with some of the more annoying edges sanded down. I t= hink that is perfectly legitimate to suggest other types of awards as well.= > > I basically always loyally supported the MEFAs as the only game in t= own. Not because I liked very much about its setup or even liked its princi= ples or goals. What I did and do like and really want is the opportunity to= give authors who work so very hard and share their work so generously som= e kind of credit for what they produce, something that recognizes their att= empts to hone their craft, try to entertain and engage, and also explore th= e canon in many different ways. > > I think these new awards do attempt to= keep the basic premises of the MEFAs in place with some long-needed refine= ments and revisions. I think I will be fat less cranky with the new setup t= han I was with the old, because enormous effort has been expended to make t= hem more inclusive and with a greater ear to the ground, trying to determin= e what people want and need which does not shut out anyone else. > > But = it would be someday fun to have an award system which looks at different as= pects of the literature. I don't know if anonymous would be my answer neces= sarily. Hey, who knows what kinds of things there might be an interest in i= f the fandom were larger. It was already shrinking I came around (and, fran= kly, that was not all bad either!). > > Have you seen Zhie's proposed awa= rds--smaller and lighter in spirit. > > > > > > > > -----Original M= essage----- > From: Silver Trails > To: SilmarillionWri= tersGuild > Sent: Wed, Aug 1, 20= 12 12:02 pm > Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth= Award Looking for Volunteers! > > > > > > > = Hi, > > I suppose many people in the new awards are here, so I'll comment= here and hope it's okay with Dawn. If it's not, tell me and I'll erase my = post. > > I am sure my idea won't change anything because I believe you = mean to replicate the MEFAS in some way, but I thought I'd say what I think= anyway. There are contests where people send their fics themselves, and th= en all the fics are uploaded without a name on them. And people vote withou= t knowing who wrote each fic. Of course you'll know who the author is if yo= u've read the fic before, but if you haven't read it, you won't know and th= ere will be some measure of objectivity in your vote. > > I know it's co= mplicated to do, and that this is not the path you've chosen, but I got thr= ee awards on 2004 with fics that were not really that good. At least one of= them was bad, I think. But my friends loved them and nominated them, and i= t was the first run of the award, so there were few nominations. I don't me= an to say that the voting system is wrong, but it has a small flaw that mig= ht be solved if the fics were uploaded without the author's names. The good= authors would win anyway. :) > > CC > > > > > > > From: Da= wn Felagund > To: SWG > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 7:19 PM > Subject: [Silmarillio= nWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! > > = > > > > Hi, all, > > > I am passing this on be= half of Neume for the Tales of Middle-earth (ToME) Awards. > > > Dawn > = > > ---- > > > =E2=80=9CI think I'm... quite ready for another adventure= .=E2=80=9D > Bilbo Baggins: Return of the King > > As you may or may not h= ave heard, the Middle-earth Fan Fiction Awards have come to a close. Wherea= s the MEFA archives will remain active for general perusal, the awards them= selves will no longer take place. However, a group of former MEFA participa= nts have begun the process of building a new readers' choice awards for the= Tolkien fandom. > > The Tales of Middle Earth Awards present the entire T= olkien fan community an opportunity to help build an award system from the = ground up, and be a part of this evolution of our collective pastime. > > = Those of you that would like to see how the new awards are developing may j= oin us at the ToME Awards Planning community on Live Journal (http://tome-a= wards.livejournal.com/). > > > You do NOT have to sign up for a (free) Li= ve Journal account to view and comment; anonymous posting is allowed in the= group, though we like to know your fannish name if you enter discussion. >= > Additionally, Open ID will allow you to leave signed comments on our LJ= community just as if you had a LiveJournal account. If you use Gmail, Yaho= o!, Blogger, Myspace, Flickr, AOL, or WordPress, you likely already have an= Open ID! More information on Open ID can be found athttp://openid.net/ > = > Sound like a fun way to celebrate our fandom? We=E2=80=99d love your help= ! > > To volunteer, please visit the Welcome Post at http://tome-awards.li= vejournal.com/24431.html, and then stop by the Volunteer Roles thread athtt= p://tome-awards.livejournal.com/3611.html to see where your individual tale= nts could be of best use. > > The Volunteer Pool at ToME is looking forwa= rd to your participation and questions. > > Thanks for reading! > > ToME = Promotion Team, "Taskforce 10" > > Members: > blslarner > elleth > huinar= e > neumeindil > surgicalsteel > thelauderdale > > elfscribe > > Steward:= > willtherebetime > > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidh= avens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3455 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35172 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2012 21:03:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m14.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2012 21:03:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f170.google.com) (209.85.214.170) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2012 21:03:39 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f170.google.com with SMTP id k16so28585912obf.1 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 14:03:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.162.101 with SMTP id xz5mr31043854obb.47.1343855019623; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 14:03:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.14.200 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 14:03:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1343836961.85231.YahooMailNeo@web120005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1343836961.85231.YahooMailNeo@web120005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 17:03:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f839d3313060704c63aa135 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=NYtkhttUA9R-f1veVK_y74Um6bOHuSrUwqkCtzIBLzjsqnBDXjVn X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f839d3313060704c63aa135 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, CC, Your post is perfectly appropriate here. This is a good place for talking about fandom-related issues. :) The idea of having the stories remain anonymous was brought up in the ToME discussion ... somewhere. :) In that discussion, it was decided that wasn't way people wanted to go for the ToMEs. You're right that they have been generally shaped similarly to the MEFAs, i.e. with the review-based vote system. However, as I've said in other places, the ToMEs do *not* need to be the only gig in town. Oshun mentioned that Zhie is setting up a fannish award as well. The format being used by the ToMEs is really one of probably dozens of possible award formats. Our fandom is on the brink of what will likely be another boom in popularity, when the *Hobbit* movies are released. We can certainly sustain several different awards; I think it'd be a good thing if we did. Since I brought this up to someone else who was dissatisfied with the ToMEs, and she took it completely the wrong way and assumed I was telling her that her ideas weren't welcome and she should go set up her own sandbox, I will clarify that that is *not* what I'm saying here! :) I'd encourage anyone interested in the ToMEs to propose their ideas; they might catch on! :) However, I think this fandom *needs* more than one award, just as it needs more than one archive. When I started the SWG, it wasn't because I was dissatisfied with HASA and OSA and the other places I was playing at the time; I wasn't. But there seemed to be a need for a Silm-only archive, so I met it. It wasn't an unwillingness to work with the existing archives but a desire to do something totally new. I think that the dissolution of the MEFAs has inspired a lot of people to think about what they'd like to see in a Tolkien fandom award; I hope a few of them at least run with those ideas, as I think recognizing the effort and talent put into our fandom is a good thing. Dawn On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Silver Trails wrote: > ** > > > I am sure my idea won't change anything because I believe you mean to > replicate the MEFAS in some way, but I thought I'd say what I think anyway. > There are contests where people send their fics themselves, and then all > the fics are uploaded without a name on them. And people vote without > knowing who wrote each fic. Of course you'll know who the author is if > you've read the fic before, but if you haven't read it, you won't know and > there will be some measure of objectivity in your vote. > > I know it's complicated to do, and that this is not the path you've > chosen, but I got three awards on 2004 with fics that were not really that > good. At least one of them was bad, I think. But my friends loved them and > nominated them, and it was the first run of the award, so there were few > nominations. I don't mean to say that the voting system is wrong, but it > has a small flaw that might be solved if the fics were uploaded without the > author's names. The good authors would win anyway. :) > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f839d3313060704c63aa135 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, CC,

Your post is perfectly appropriate here. This is= a good place for talking about fandom-related issues. :)

The idea of having the stories remain anonymous was brought up in t= he ToME discussion ... somewhere. :) In that discussion, it was decided tha= t wasn't way people wanted to go for the ToMEs. You're right that t= hey have been generally shaped similarly to the MEFAs, i.e. with the review= -based vote system.

However, as I've said in = other places, the ToMEs do not=C2=A0need to be the only gig in town.= Oshun mentioned that Zhie is setting up a fannish award as well. The forma= t being used by the ToMEs is really one of probably dozens of possible awar= d formats. Our fandom is on the brink of what will likely be another boom i= n popularity, when the Hobbit=C2=A0movies are released. We can certa= inly sustain several different awards; I think it'd be a good thing if = we did.

Since I brought this up to someone else w= ho was dissatisfied with the ToMEs, and she took it completely the wrong wa= y and assumed I was telling her that her ideas weren't welcome and she = should go set up her own sandbox, I will clarify that that is not=C2= =A0what I'm saying here! :) I'd encourage anyone interested in the = ToMEs to propose their ideas; they might catch on! :) However, I think this= fandom needs=C2=A0more than one award, just as it needs more than o= ne archive. When I started the SWG, it wasn't because I was dissatisfie= d with HASA and OSA and the other places I was playing at the time; I wasn&= #39;t. But there seemed to be a need for a Silm-only archive, so I met it. = It wasn't an unwillingness to work with the existing archives but a des= ire to do something totally new. I think that the dissolution of the MEFAs = has inspired a lot of people to think about what they'd like to see in = a Tolkien fandom award; I hope a few of them at least run with those ideas,= as I think recognizing the effort and talent put into our fandom is a good= thing.

Dawn

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Silver Trails <<= a href=3D"mailto:silver.trails@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">silver.trails@y= ahoo.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
=

I am sure = my idea won't change anything because I believe you mean=C2=A0to replic= ate the MEFAS in some way, but I thought I'd say what I think anyway. T= here are contests where people send their fics themselves, and then all the= fics are uploaded without a name on them. And people vote without knowing = who wrote each fic. Of course you'll know who the author is if you'= ve read the fic before, but if you haven't read it, you won't know = and there will be some measure of objectivity in your vote.
=C2=A0
I know it's complicated to do, = and that this is not the path you've chosen, but I got three awards on = 2004 with fics that were=C2=A0not really that good. At least one of them wa= s bad, I think. But my friends=C2=A0loved them and nominated them, and it w= as the first run of the award, so there were few nominations. I don't m= ean to say that the voting system is wrong, but it has a small flaw that mi= ght be solved if the fics were uploaded without the author's names. The= good authors would=C2=A0win anyway. :)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens= .net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8f839d3313060704c63aa135-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3456 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36648 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2012 23:25:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2012 23:25:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm21-vm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.91.209) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2012 23:25:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.90.53] by nm21.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 23:25:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.226.167] by tm6.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 23:25:15 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1068.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 23:25:15 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 972944.53860.bm@omp1068.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 32192 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Aug 2012 23:25:15 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: YTkS1J8VM1ka0GazbE6U4Msxqq6hsCJ_yArNh0jFU7.ueka TfciGTRKyfQbSqQDfutAX.7mN8JLPYWgPtnjaEMNABL9B8.QQvXHRmAJulkU s9kwIquQcqLDW6aU0UoR_yE6ig32GpAYkcWRApK5YK_DAQ8KjhC_t0iH5x.9 dBo.PMg32Zk9uKakuELJHhau1EjewkpDQq.1Z4LeIi0tatoq1XH1PnKgBz8v eePEltXDhMdwRvCnG4go_2CSTR9SMY3JKsMAjkdZsfDdJdGDMXT7Pl_nLX_j gqlv6rLLh5f27t9fxpNRdAeFZRuglF05bIxnO0N0x6HRN39xeOgVxg.NU_S3 A.8QXXGqvxnm9M53o6sBS9zbqQ_ZqA_bLKkvOayJZ22nHZ8wMFUddGmZzmM2 nu83ZtKkdaCyrW4GjHBMdbGzHqQJt.eXEibZKFKaDO69FRr8qkA9scPUwbK1 DYlpeB3Gaz3vTNztO2MtdOX66IujFZN3k9IZ3smvn0SVA0YY1pfLlDjG3QQg w4Yh0JJYWF4EiCfez1.pPDJyRyjuTpQSylsDLotSiFFAXNgPhcUsfeIk.P88 .nsrMlPXSUBii2pZ8KEhrlOmERaGgFhDsX1AyG1XQ2hy8_5yVF7URTUnqRax 2NcGM08s5G3E31wQjG1YMUdN77Xl_Z2soxAfIQG4bDNoQNPt5Q9Qr1LO.Trv pFZNHwv_.0fxeXm6FyvQ4sXtYlPRXOAml3A3Ux5HX9piSQ3DyJQCCR5pDcZP pmOmmk2X.e88CjRbOGeb_jLAgRLJuLzYOIpkhKXsXzXttm3C0i_1o5hhqhXE Mc3Cw8Ehg2GFqsDHG8I6.qSa25XobhVnRYLCuVkmJieQKByCnFiNNENcCg0U lbRDN1Hr4oco8rMle3wupRZWHLSA6EytBZi1HqxvtsXUfJz3OW85_YnNLO8p cgjbwvdlGWzBx1LybDqdVdQ_Ce2JPq_Mbeg_8slHET_A12DFlIJm7KwAMt.X .JM5AH0a.jdthI2hbLZtHONaMgs7ypPPuInG3kBYtYOAKaA5k4sj3eOUFRCM psQV2KnGsjkfTMDso7s_HhePAaYKjhR2LFIbkE2LNagsqmjWZ6gowdNA.mH5 G22FGDpxVhkMWUNIckZze7yMwDxv3LdasaUiGznKfXTOPUwbXXkMiEAGlKKL g3otlz52xFO9Be23Feh4d1zVnFf_S8UtyUKUF0OwIxSwmUGTQ5kWaLkHekfv pItJ46NWm6gULO9NALnOlQBqOWInjmFl_kMq6PhhnBibkLFFQrj2zDM9mRTe 4osOrfTsefLLzTYzAxLNxQQHweEstrd.MH19plW1IBzPRTrYuFrnDe9qm3hy OmnUwT6kg X-Received: from [201.230.71.219] by web120006.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:25:15 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.120.356233 References: <1343836961.85231.YahooMailNeo@web120005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8CF3E24AD69D55F-2250-1C60E@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1343863515.31269.YahooMailNeo@web120006.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:25:15 -0700 (PDT) To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com" In-Reply-To: <8CF3E24AD69D55F-2250-1C60E@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1454997657-665455971-1343863515=:31269" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silver Trails Reply-To: Silver Trails Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=ErNwu0k48j8rBtKYx6qtzobXz9kLknTnaYf-dq2I6d0J3ktDbqUQrw X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails --1454997657-665455971-1343863515=:31269 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I seldom participated in the MEFAS because I had no time to review. I was i= n the "do not nominate list" for a while too. I believe that the ones who w= in the MEFA awards now are good writers, many of them friends of mine. But = I've seen many good fiction not being nominated because nobody knows the wr= iter. Anyway, just wanted to give some input. When I was in the MEFAs list,= input was asked for, but never taken into account. I'm glad you are workin= g on changing that. Good luck! =3D) =C2=A0 CC __________________________= ______ From: "heartofoshun@aol.com" To: Silmarillio= nWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 12:46 PM Sub= ject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking fo= r Volunteers! =C2=A0 You are right that people want the familiari= ty of the MEFAs, only refreshed a bit, democratized, and with some of the m= ore annoying edges sanded down. I think that is perfectly legitimate to sug= gest other types of awards as well. I basically always loyally supported = the MEFAs as the only game in town. Not because I liked very much about its= setup or even liked its principles or goals. What I did and do like and re= ally want is the opportunity to give authors who work so very hard=C2=A0 an= d share their work so generously some kind of credit for what they produce,= something that recognizes their attempts to hone their craft, try to enter= tain and engage, and also explore the canon in many different ways. I thin= k these new awards do attempt to keep the basic premises of the MEFAs in pl= ace with some long-needed refinements and revisions. I think I will be fat = less cranky with the new setup than I was with the old, because enormous ef= fort has been expended to make them more inclusive and with a greater ear t= o the ground, trying to determine what people want and need which does not = shut out anyone else. But it would be someday fun to have an award system= which looks at different aspects of the literature. I don't know if anonym= ous would be my answer necessarily. Hey, who knows what kinds of things the= re might be an interest in if the fandom were larger. It was already shrink= ing I came around (and, frankly, that was not all bad either!). Have you = seen Zhie's proposed awards--smaller and lighter in spirit. -----Or= iginal Message----- From: Silver Trails To: Silma= rillionWritersGuild Sent: Wed, A= ug 1, 2012 12:02 pm Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle= -earth Award Looking for Volunteers! =C2=A0 Hi, =C2=A0 I suppose man= y people in the new awards are here, so I'll comment here and hope it's oka= y with Dawn. If it's not, tell me and I'll erase my post. =C2=A0 I am su= re my idea won't change anything because I believe you mean=C2=A0to replica= te the MEFAS in some way, but I thought I'd say what I think anyway. There = are contests where people send their fics themselves, and then all the fics= are uploaded without a name on them. And people vote without knowing who w= rote each fic. Of course you'll know who the author is if you've read the f= ic before, but if you haven't read it, you won't know and there will be som= e measure of objectivity in your vote. =C2=A0 I know it's complicated to= do, and that this is not the path you've chosen, but I got three awards on= 2004 with fics that were=C2=A0not really that good. At least one of them w= as bad, I think. But my friends=C2=A0loved them and nominated them, and it = was the first run of the award, so there were few nominations. I don't mean= to say that the voting system is wrong, but it has a small flaw that might= be solved if the fics were uploaded without the author's names. The good a= uthors would=C2=A0win anyway. :) =C2=A0 CC __________________________= ______ From: Dawn Felagund To: SWG Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 7:19 PM Subject:= [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunte= ers! =C2=A0 Hi, all, I am passing this on behalf of Neume for the T= ales of Middle-earth (ToME) Awards. Dawn ---- =E2=80=9CI think I'm= ... quite ready for another adventure.=E2=80=9D Bilbo Baggins: Return of th= e King As you may or may not have heard, the Middle-earth Fan Fiction Awar= ds have come to a close. Whereas the MEFA archives will remain active for g= eneral perusal, the awards themselves will no longer take place. However, a= group of former MEFA participants have begun the process of building a new= readers' choice awards for the Tolkien fandom. The Tales of Middle Earth = Awards present the entire Tolkien fan community an opportunity to help buil= d an award system from the ground up, and be a part of this evolution of ou= r collective pastime. Those of you that would like to see how the new awar= ds are developing may join us at the ToME Awards Planning community on Live= Journal (http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/). You do NOT have to sign = up for a (free) Live Journal account to view and comment; anonymous posting= is allowed in the group, though we like to know your fannish name if you e= nter discussion. Additionally, Open ID will allow you to leave signed comm= ents on our LJ community just as if you had a LiveJournal account. If you u= se Gmail, Yahoo!, Blogger, Myspace, Flickr, AOL, or WordPress, you likely a= lready have an Open ID! More information on Open ID can be found athttp://o= penid.net/ Sound like a fun way to celebrate our fandom? We=E2=80=99d love= your help! To volunteer, please visit the Welcome Post at=C2=A0http://tom= e-awards.livejournal.com/24431.html, and then stop by the Volunteer Roles t= hread athttp://tome-awards.livejournal.com/3611.html=C2=A0to see where your= individual talents could be of best use.=C2=A0 The Volunteer Pool at ToME= is looking forward to your participation and questions. Thanks for readin= g! ToME Promotion Team, "Taskforce 10" Members:=C2=A0 blslarner elleth hu= inare neumeindil surgicalsteel thelauderdale elfscribe Steward: willther= ebetime=C2=A0 -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/ = --1454997657-665455971-1343863515=:31269 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I seldom p= articipated in the MEFAS because I had no time to review. I was in the "do = not nominate list" for a while too. I believe that the ones who win the MEF= A awards now are good writers, many of them friends of mine. But I've seen = many good fiction not being nominated because nobody knows the writer. Anyw= ay, just wanted to give some input. When I was in the MEFAs list, input was= asked for, but never taken into account. I'm glad you are working on chang= ing that. Good luck! =3D)
 
CC

From: "heartofoshun@= aol.com"
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 12:= 46 PM
Subject: Re: [Si= lmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers!=

 
You are= right that people want the familiarity of the MEFAs, only refreshed a bit,= democratized, and with some of the more annoying edges sanded down. I think that is perfectly legitimate to suggest ot= her types of awards as well.

I basically always loyally supported= the MEFAs as the only game in town. Not because I liked very much about it= s setup or even liked its principles or goals. What I did and do like and r= eally want is the opportunity to give authors who work so very hard  a= nd share their work so generously some kind of credit for what they produce= , something that recognizes their attempts to hone their craft, try to ente= rtain and engage, and also explore the canon in many different ways.
I think these new awards do attempt to keep the basic premises of the ME= FAs in place with some long-needed refinements and revisions. I think I wil= l be fat less cranky with the new setup than I was with the old, because en= ormous effort has been expended to make them more inclusive and with a grea= ter ear to the ground, trying to determine what people want and need which = does not shut out anyone else.

But it would be someday fun to hav= e an award system which looks at different aspects of the literature. I don= 't know if anonymous would be my answer necessarily. Hey, who knows what ki= nds of things there might be an interest in if the fandom were larger. It w= as already shrinking I came around (and, frankly, that was not all bad eith= er!).

Have you seen Zhie's proposed awards--smaller and lighter i= n spirit.


=



-----Original Message-= ----
From: Silver Trails
To: = SilmarillionWritersGuild Sent: Wed, Aug 1, 2012 12:02 pm
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWrit= ersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers!

=
 
Hi,
 
<= span>I suppose many people in the new awards are here, so I'll comment here= and hope it's okay with Dawn. If it's not, tell me and I'll erase my post.=
 
I am= sure my idea won't change anything because I believe you mean to repl= icate the MEFAS in some way, but I thought I'd say what I think anyway. The= re are contests where people send their fics themselves, and then all the f= ics are uploaded without a name on them. And people vote without knowing wh= o wrote each fic. Of course you'll know who the author is if you've read th= e fic before, but if you haven't read it, you won't know and there will be = some measure of objectivity in your vote.
<= /span> 
I know it's complicated to do, and th= at this is not the path you've chosen, but I got three awards on 2004 with = fics that were not really that good. At least one of them was bad, I t= hink. But my friends loved them and nominated them, and it was the fir= st run of the award, so there were few nominations. I don't mean to say tha= t the voting system is wrong, but it has a small flaw that might be solved = if the fics were uploaded without the author's names. The good authors woul= d win anyway. :)
 
=
CC

=
=
From: Dawn Fel= agund <DawnFelagund@gmail.co= m>
To: SWG = <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 7:19 = PM
Subject: [Silma= rillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers!

=
 
Hi, all,

I am passing this on behalf of Neume for the Tales of Middle-earth (ToME= ) Awards.

Dawn

----

=
=E2=80=9CI thin= k I'm... quite ready for another adventure.=E2=80=9D
Bilbo Baggins: Return of the King

As yo= u may or may not have heard, the Middle-earth Fan Fiction Awards have come = to a close. Whereas the MEFA archives will remain active for general perusa= l, the awards themselves will no longer take place. However, a group of for= mer MEFA participants have begun the process of building a new readers' cho= ice awards for the Tolkien fandom.

The Tales of Middle Ea= rth Awards present the entire Tolkien fan community an opportunity to help = build an award system from the ground up, and be a part of this evolution o= f our collective pastime.

Those of you that would like to= see how the new awards are developing may join us at the ToME Awards Plann= ing community on Live Journal (http://tome-awards.livejourna= l.com/). =


Y= ou do NOT have to sign up for a (free) Live Journal account to view and com= ment; anonymous posting is allowed in the group, though we like to know you= r fannish name if you enter discussion.

Additionally, Open I= D will allow you to leave signed comments on our LJ community just as if yo= u had a LiveJournal account. If you use Gmail, Yahoo!, Blogger, Myspace, Fl= ickr, AOL, or WordPress, you likely already have an Open ID! More informati= on on Open ID can be found athttp://openid.net/

Sound like = a fun way to celebrate our fandom? We=E2=80=99d love your help!

= To volunteer, please visit the Welcome Post at h= ttp://tome-awards.livejournal.com/24431.html, and then stop by the Volu= nteer Roles thread athttp://tome-awards.livejournal.com/3611.html to s= ee where your individual talents could be of best use. 

= The Volunteer Pool at ToME is looking forward to your participation and q= uestions.

Thanks for reading!

ToME Promotion = Team, "Taskforce 10"

Members: 
blslarner
= elleth
huinare
neumeindil
surgicalsteel
thelau= derdale
elfscribe

Steward:
willtherebetime 

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
= http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/
=


=


=
--1454997657-665455971-1343863515=:31269-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3457 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36543 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2012 23:34:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m10.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2012 23:34:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm19-vm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.91.149) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2012 23:34:31 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.90.50] by nm19.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 23:34:31 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.89.246] by tm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 23:34:31 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1060.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 23:34:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 296576.95841.bm@omp1060.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 12551 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Aug 2012 23:34:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: rDAe8qIVM1n.gz_K663d2TWxbu7rNY7GsLGsHQlZgLGNphG 0pqW6s1F7PAf1LMqBeAgjQ2bxgxyPWXwPHFkeoDAn8rdXbNEC.gDFmV1XkBR f4R_gB.tWH5UGqTIdu3S82d3jaxVqdSk7toTa2NDATm_Ahos03TAHyDY5bYx lw41sQZVK6oFa282sqayH5myk5FAmOrxg_yop.0usMI8dVATbtB85PSOJW79 ra3ysqyOQ2VC1hzQhuOblSL28pNBmmRMlXARkqPJkmsF4l4CeM8SB61GflGS kfWK3gPf4wAwWr3TSrDJzwpzjosH7MBgS8m2NY.oqnAfLtLdrjGuuGqToPBK BBsI369Jut5b1EI5LIz5anerfcCVrA9F7gw0Edai2EBqRK6z8E5niTrhdmGO zbuTp3OkAwYEp71Q4MiKhND1ojV3OU5QdHULmm8jfgH5DbcAFnvTJBCH0SQv r68VYhb0F3ex2hR79gbbnwrxEiBBtfy33JIc_jb_2gAIQTBJMAYDueCee9IE nJXhEPLDKbdcwYRFZImv4_ACNNcEaV1IK54A.gerobL9OMV5r.zHQgPxrSC. te3zdB0Tkk6YUza8_qyt_vzr_1fDbz8H4OPPemjNb1kA31AA6EttTv_GKkmd 7piBEzCJ.j5mnk6qWlDsqurC1oDkkB_Fzl4EGE3h0XSk6qmR.KpfvjjtDy8I 7rk9jjcOhd7KO3tXfTp0wyoqDR4aWXyo5.KV91wzsfO0vH6GO93IB6D6fD8J okwPATCB88cF26qzgtx1khHOkU1nGblPJITv4az81mwfQLGeKNzpwDuvNi9K Es1ggh7vNsEaKEwNSTXeHfJGiwSBj_aruwfrLkJp7WZ1xi7HrXJ4YL8E4SHG ojKg9CDeZJ8vlQ9pCMIATN48bOm9F7zgK03JUbQI7c9BdcbbWlud7vW95ERw YpkrK.WxielBqb.IK7nIWgKRp81vvTzxgP16yU69hz1lOIpYznb0FWnBKGZM mkhFOeNHAxLGclF_BoHd6OLbuJpg9JkhFcc_dEezsCDyh5PHrwtCAYa2kLHV MbYzntZRc3Q2J6IuaemARsjrCn0gnRF4DjdE75xGt8K8XPUOz5Ftjf5UoCHe MG5wRVIFlRSzW7LcwlkgNN6j8OOSjlXtFFWVBEnmxYCYFkYmQ5bDXQPOZ.TA FLd4Nq_YFfedmMPz1wjMonyBd8oegTSCTRbe49kS9mkg_JVTDAx0631FhpvY t4Zk- X-Received: from [201.230.71.219] by web120001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:34:31 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.120.356233 References: <8CF3E24AD69D55F-2250-1C60E@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1343864071.97006.YahooMailNeo@web120001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:34:31 -0700 (PDT) To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-134638194-31022877-1343864071=:97006" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silver Trails Reply-To: Silver Trails Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=YkEIB7enFrsCusI7_L8ntJjtKTnq9DuHPSJ200x3OEqH8XXipLONFg X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails ---134638194-31022877-1343864071=:97006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a published author in my career, and in the academic world the anonymo= us review by peers works perfectly fine. Of course we are not in search of = an award, but trying to publish an article in an arbitrated journal. Of cou= rse you can guess who is the author many times, but that doesn't mean you'l= l approve something badly written. After all, we have a=C2=A0reputation to = uphold. I am aware it would not really work for awards, no, but I believe i= t would be nice if it did. =C2=A0 CC ________________________________ = From: surgeon_ruth To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoo= groups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 1:25 PM Subject: [SilmarillionW= ritersGuild] Re: Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! = =C2=A0 I'm also a bit dubious about just how 'anonymous' fic review act= ually is. I'm a HASA reviewer, and that review process is supposedly anonym= ous. However, I find that for the more prolific authors in the fandom, I fr= equently can figure out who wrote the fic just by the description - and if = I can't figure it out from the description, I know within a paragraph or tw= o of reading, even if I haven't read the fic elsewhere before. My guesses h= ave been right the majority of the time - it's a combination of distinctive= style and knowing what topics certain authors generally write about. In a= few cases, I've even Googled the first couple of lines of a fic to see if = my guess was correct and have found the story, the author, the other archiv= e, the date posted, etc. Point is, it's next to impossible in the Tolkien = fandom to truly blind the reviewing process unless it's a really new author= in the fandom and they haven't posted the work anywhere else on the intern= et. --- In mailto:SilmarillionWritersGuild%40yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun= @... wrote: > > You are right that people want the familiarity of the MEFAs= , only refreshed a bit, democratized, and with some of the more annoying ed= ges sanded down. I think that is perfectly legitimate to suggest other type= s of awards as well. > > I basically always loyally supported the MEFAs a= s the only game in town. Not because I liked very much about its setup or e= ven liked its principles or goals. What I did and do like and really want i= s the opportunity to give authors who work so very hard and share their wo= rk so generously some kind of credit for what they produce, something that = recognizes their attempts to hone their craft, try to entertain and engage,= and also explore the canon in many different ways. > > I think these new = awards do attempt to keep the basic premises of the MEFAs in place with som= e long-needed refinements and revisions. I think I will be fat less cranky = with the new setup than I was with the old, because enormous effort has bee= n expended to make them more inclusive and with a greater ear to the ground= , trying to determine what people want and need which does not shut out any= one else. > > But it would be someday fun to have an award system which l= ooks at different aspects of the literature. I don't know if anonymous woul= d be my answer necessarily. Hey, who knows what kinds of things there might= be an interest in if the fandom were larger. It was already shrinking I ca= me around (and, frankly, that was not all bad either!). > > Have you seen= Zhie's proposed awards--smaller and lighter in spirit. > > > > > > = > > -----Original Message----- > From: Silver Trails >= To: SilmarillionWritersGuild > Sent: Wed, Aug 1, 2012 12:02 pm > Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWriter= sGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! > > > > > = > > Hi, > > I suppose many people in the new awards are here, so I'll com= ment here and hope it's okay with Dawn. If it's not, tell me and I'll erase= my post. > > I am sure my idea won't change anything because I believe y= ou mean to replicate the MEFAS in some way, but I thought I'd say what I th= ink anyway. There are contests where people send their fics themselves, and= then all the fics are uploaded without a name on them. And people vote wit= hout knowing who wrote each fic. Of course you'll know who the author is if= you've read the fic before, but if you haven't read it, you won't know and= there will be some measure of objectivity in your vote. > > I know it's = complicated to do, and that this is not the path you've chosen, but I got t= hree awards on 2004 with fics that were not really that good. At least one = of them was bad, I think. But my friends loved them and nominated them, and= it was the first run of the award, so there were few nominations. I don't = mean to say that the voting system is wrong, but it has a small flaw that m= ight be solved if the fics were uploaded without the author's names. The go= od authors would win anyway. :) > > CC > > > > > > > From: Dawn Fe= lagund > To: SWG > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 7:19 PM > Subject: [Silmari= llionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! > >= > > > > Hi, all, > > > I am passing this on behalf of Neume for the = Tales of Middle-earth (ToME) Awards. > > > Dawn > > > ---- > > > =E2= =80=9CI think I'm... quite ready for another adventure.=E2=80=9D > Bilbo Ba= ggins: Return of the King > > As you may or may not have heard, the Middle= -earth Fan Fiction Awards have come to a close. Whereas the MEFA archives w= ill remain active for general perusal, the awards themselves will no longer= take place. However, a group of former MEFA participants have begun the pr= ocess of building a new readers' choice awards for the Tolkien fandom. > >= The Tales of Middle Earth Awards present the entire Tolkien fan community = an opportunity to help build an award system from the ground up, and be a p= art of this evolution of our collective pastime. > > Those of you that wou= ld like to see how the new awards are developing may join us at the ToME Aw= ards Planning community on Live Journal (http://tome-awards.livejournal.com= /). > > > You do NOT have to sign up for a (free) Live Journal account to= view and comment; anonymous posting is allowed in the group, though we lik= e to know your fannish name if you enter discussion. > > Additionally, Ope= n ID will allow you to leave signed comments on our LJ community just as if= you had a LiveJournal account. If you use Gmail, Yahoo!, Blogger, Myspace,= Flickr, AOL, or WordPress, you likely already have an Open ID! More inform= ation on Open ID can be found athttp://openid.net/ > > Sound like a fun wa= y to celebrate our fandom? We=E2=80=99d love your help! > > To volunteer, = please visit the Welcome Post at http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/24431.h= tml, and then stop by the Volunteer Roles thread athttp://tome-awards.livej= ournal.com/3611.html to see where your individual talents could be of best = use. > > The Volunteer Pool at ToME is looking forward to your participat= ion and questions. > > Thanks for reading! > > ToME Promotion Team, "Task= force 10" > > Members: > blslarner > elleth > huinare > neumeindil > surg= icalsteel > thelauderdale > > elfscribe > > Steward: > willtherebetime >= > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/ > ---134638194-31022877-1343864071=:97006 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am a pub= lished author in my career, and in the academic world the anonymous review = by peers works perfectly fine. Of course we are not in search of an award, = but trying to publish an article in an arbitrated journal. Of course you ca= n guess who is the author many times, but that doesn't mean you'll approve = something badly written. After all, we have a reputation to uphold. I = am aware it would not really work for awards, no, but I believe it would be= nice if it did.
 
CC

From: surgeon_ruth
To:= SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 1:25 PM
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] = Re: Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers!
=
 
=
I'm also a bit dubious about just how 'anonymous' fic review ac= tually is. I'm a HASA reviewer, and that review process is supposedly anony= mous. However, I find that for the more prolific authors in the fandom, I f= requently can figure out who wrote the fic just by the description - and if= I can't figure it out from the description, I know within a paragraph or t= wo of reading, even if I haven't read the fic elsewhere before. My guesses = have been right the majority of the time - it's a combination of distinctiv= e style and knowing what topics certain authors generally write about.
=
In a few cases, I've even Googled the first couple of lines of a fic t= o see if my guess was correct and have found the story, the author, the oth= er archive, the date posted, etc.

Point is, it's next to impossibl= e in the Tolkien fandom to truly blind the reviewing process unless it's a = really new author in the fandom and they haven't posted the work anywhere e= lse on the internet.

--- In mailto:SilmarillionWritersGui= ld%40yahoogroups.com, heartofoshun@... wrote:
>
> You are= right that people want the familiarity of the MEFAs, only refreshed a bit,= democratized, and with some of the more annoying edges sanded down. I thin= k that is perfectly legitimate to suggest other types of awards as well. >
> I basically always loyally supported the MEFAs as the onl= y game in town. Not because I liked very much about its setup or even liked= its principles or goals. What I did and do like and really want is the opp= ortunity to give authors who work so very hard and share their work so gen= erously some kind of credit for what they produce, something that recognize= s their attempts to hone their craft, try to entertain and engage, and also= explore the canon in many different ways.
>
> I think these= new awards do attempt to keep the basic premises of the MEFAs in place wit= h some long-needed refinements and revisions. I think I will be fat less cr= anky with the new setup than I was with the old, because enormous effort ha= s been expended to make them more inclusive and with a greater ear to the g= round, trying to determine what people want and need which does not shut ou= t anyone else.
>
> But it would be someday fun to have an a= ward system which looks at different aspects of the literature. I don't kno= w if anonymous would be my answer necessarily. Hey, who knows what kinds of= things there might be an interest in if the fandom were larger. It was alr= eady shrinking I came around (and, frankly, that was not all bad either!). =
>
> Have you seen Zhie's proposed awards--smaller and light= er in spirit.
>
>
>
>
>
> <= br> >
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Silver Trails =
> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild <mailto:SilmarillionWritersGuild%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: = Wed, Aug 1, 2012 12:02 pm
> Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] = Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers!
>
>
= >
>
>
>
> Hi, >
> I suppose many people in the new awards are here, so I'l= l comment here and hope it's okay with Dawn. If it's not, tell me and I'll = erase my post.
>
> I am sure my idea won't change anything= because I believe you mean to replicate the MEFAS in some way, but I thoug= ht I'd say what I think anyway. There are contests where people send their = fics themselves, and then all the fics are uploaded without a name on them.= And people vote without knowing who wrote each fic. Of course you'll know = who the author is if you've read the fic before, but if you haven't read it= , you won't know and there will be some measure of objectivity in your vote= .
>
> I know it's complicated to do, and that this is not = the path you've chosen, but I got three awards on 2004 with fics that were = not really that good. At least one of them was bad, I think. But my friends= loved them and nominated them, and it was the first run of the award, so t= here were few nominations. I don't mean to say that the voting system is wr= ong, but it has a small flaw that might be solved if the fics were uploaded= without the author's names. The good authors would win anyway. :)
>=
> CC
>
>
>
>
>
&g= t;
> From: Dawn Felagund
> To:= SWG <mailto:SilmarillionWritersGuild%40yahoogroups.com>= ;
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 7:19 PM
> Subject: [Silma= rillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! >
>
>
>
> > Hi, all,
>
>
> I am passing this on behalf o= f Neume for the Tales of Middle-earth (ToME) Awards.
>
> > Dawn
>
>
> ----
>
>
> = =E2=80=9CI think I'm... quite ready for another adventure.=E2=80=9D
>= ; Bilbo Baggins: Return of the King
>
> As you may or may no= t have heard, the Middle-earth Fan Fiction Awards have come to a close. Whe= reas the MEFA archives will remain active for general perusal, the awards t= hemselves will no longer take place. However, a group of former MEFA partic= ipants have begun the process of building a new readers' choice awards for = the Tolkien fandom.
>
> The Tales of Middle Earth Awards pre= sent the entire Tolkien fan community an opportunity to help build an award= system from the ground up, and be a part of this evolution of our collecti= ve pastime.
>
> Those of you that would like to see how the = new awards are developing may join us at the ToME Awards Planning community= on Live Journal (http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/).
>= ;
>
> You do NOT have to sign up for a (free) Live Journal = account to view and comment; anonymous posting is allowed in the group, tho= ugh we like to know your fannish name if you enter discussion.
> > Additionally, Open ID will allow you to leave signed comments on our= LJ community just as if you had a LiveJournal account. If you use Gmail, Y= ahoo!, Blogger, Myspace, Flickr, AOL, or WordPress, you likely already have= an Open ID! More information on Open ID can be found athttp://openid.net/
>
> Sound like a fun way t= o celebrate our fandom? We=E2=80=99d love your help!
>
> To = volunteer, please visit the Welcome Post at http://tome-= awards.livejournal.com/24431.html, and then stop by the Volunteer Roles= thread athttp://tome-awards.livejournal.com/= 3611.html to see where your individual talents could be of best use. >
> The Volunteer Pool at ToME is looking forward to your par= ticipation and questions.
>
> Thanks for reading!
> <= br> > ToME Promotion Team, "Taskforce 10"
>
> Members: > blslarner
> elleth
> huinare
> neumeindil
= > surgicalsteel
> thelauderdale
>
> elfscribe
= >
> Steward:
> willtherebetime
>
>
&= gt;
> --
> ~oOo~
> Dawn Felagund
> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
> http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/
>

=


---134638194-31022877-1343864071=:97006-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3458 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: silmarillionwritersguild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65994 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2012 23:40:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2012 23:40:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm12-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.91.172) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2012 23:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.90.52] by nm12.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 23:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.89.165] by tm5.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 23:40:16 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1021.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2012 23:40:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 382449.97209.bm@omp1021.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 98356 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Aug 2012 23:40:14 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: vuCe9zwVM1nvWuzqH1RwTbHDDdwVc6JMA9hFTkSVj8JHuhr 436NB82cx1s0_jcb9e13fPhDvfATd22f3KRamocnMQYD_sUQY0P8qQ17f_wK rHNCJ9rD29YhywPWFKH1.zAIWps4qzMlsE3b_KvyAI8BPyzyaRQDEpysxY1f _zabsFedqwq5.lJu0WnUSwIaYWPowxRVfRytfFK9waFq9V9PbPBcBItljTxE Osb.YjkIWEEV7ZEIjSrN8GgNzxk6RC4kyJAWmZGfWTw1MfWKRv.kkgIphsUd 8ZYrmO5jqKYO._L5rEE44VvNbcDtgvc2jSCrTtZ4rF_3cMfh9Iftyzjh5Pjd umSj0a.rBl_inJI_VpIl4su71SlyduHl8G_TEn7lSOtwUPaQGWHTRnJKB0g6 98U_uA0I6OeceUKHkjHBHrBZCbeq1_lCfytxWR3FHt6HQPRUdCbYqnUU2x1W ozXSaoe73nmJ9FAPpWT.jbl8oqqWR6wcUnvmaVQldeMLm7vdnVipfWnOqDa6 fWCNSPYAVcZ.jeizmipnW5ZmmVCDhWZBAPkvSygAeRgDI3AhZX7yIOk.qObb FsB7Xrv.bmbGnslOAVDhzhZni3zQvQngnYOG.JQbPDzEcpheuwaq2fwKFxel dKp9YYHRn_guDnMFffMpt24gWDZ39b2biH2pAiprmXe9oX5C7Gia6Cx3oaZ8 BvOznihKuqooUCNhMoNh0Du4I4nQQsNJqV4ye.Uh0bYa0HitaFOg7SbI4zGx Z.5miF_G2zcPRiXydiJph9XedZaNCh_nnphIw.HKDI8d4aKoN4xj7OvbqJ.J C1cG0kEQgGkdt1w_TeqZ9xgcViQ2zz0llU_wUsFzwJ737ruyhlc0w7MRP0TC UVFad.XR6yj62C.YZFim8cXV2xWyuIPmISp8.xk0spSABmkKGgF5l7gzGmR3 ejYfRDwTXjVNWMhjWiXXsBmT79pK4wU1ek3xZtaTr9z5Y5.AhoiMIfnYA8lB sbIkd6whrs6d9HYLl.JBjyuSEqBFqqvsAn6qC6obSES14vxEUk5QfV3zGJ6O bzpck2KeyCb1CGlqQbGGusa7izEQHMNSCEgzlYXumlQEm_ojrGwVd6wt23yB 6mO6B0.uYJpHaYjd08z_IXOQM3t1KDAXVR3CG6VcZehAff.uLGFzxXdb6wGL xjUCH3A6yeDxXI8UHeTKwv.Mkwz6HsgiswUEOm0ugZkAflwifwkEOSiL3k4t 9oXdNfWOFXYTlCh0NaMcbRdPZpO_A3O7HESndhDJUJVvl0cIwAc7cv2VnTuO CbHT_5Mhuq4suNYV7DucWamJHXk3Ktu_Vw7mIpdqntBiXTg4akcDrFU5BqK8 Gk4C2o77FtHKZgJmiYM9xcYIC0bPBRYSFxgp95_5DjOD.sfxlAnbmxRgNlek aOkQ_3kUxUAFqadYuvET3Ya8TRo0d_uJU6vHL8rnzCnMA9elJ9I4ckFFg3xw G295dm1HOO6jRuKLZJG9CJNZBahwJJrKcVDCZPdrlcJBdwcJOxzwiki0hJ0N UL8Q5HB72bUOd_c9xbLYdpwOJG._bekzWQaIJvfGBfkCIgftk8L31dhvwDIy _yy6d4hMAbkNhkqSOJibBdxv1ZERO54KR_g.9yALetqU_p8Q63OoFLadxboI EkdsYUTt_Vukmkg4kS259Apvt0Qbd5MfN4OpXVVyRxxkBYWKFrpYxe8z6fuz zJtcdyTA6j1ZF7q.JffaRorxwlgFnAMdOBsh8k4BdSWErHVyzHf4vaHVxb4c IYBiYrDr1NWtmTICCmr6l8gqaDbqcc3sk2yyBqAu5tPOYaSRFh0qHxWE4FFz u8MFVAAVvZ_ZmCIYPJwdWf.LJPOfCz3vfqCUCcKdRnNKmQ1wGKi751IJAn6f yH5Gr0nJIRi.WH7xKaq0MCiDbzH.1Vzf4xcUt.eTyJ0ziPIH9NU7j0ZBYdFN ne5sESsp5MHSd8ga9KlTyLb0qh.5gFUgKq8FJYmZXMMzuF1xc.LCKI4B.H4a pGgi8mWQ64YIIWbw06IWBCkM1hvcD4qGb4kYvAs.VHjohlcdptKCRdhyS3da hdKf7p5uI1.7L40Fwz77Y31lWGLos_GRq6Y_qpI2iKT4V03RjxHaynr_v6in W2fJcOKlbK.T2J9wwlwxxTgRuR_efTL2pgO9sNc2QXjz8l3SayrBcDbBZo5W INMkCDwjQan4wa5w26zOeA62Jx0w5 X-Received: from [201.230.71.219] by web120005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:40:13 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.120.356233 References: <1343836961.85231.YahooMailNeo@web120005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1343864413.97220.YahooMailNeo@web120005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:40:13 -0700 (PDT) To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="737196383-1347027541-1343864413=:97220" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Silver Trails Reply-To: Silver Trails Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627294; y=RspKdB16FxdAJGUF8q6aOPxlwpuFCn76d4xL9gnE8Z7h0QsbnKU_pA X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails --737196383-1347027541-1343864413=:97220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! :) =C2=A0 Just wanted to say what I think, but I don't expect the new a= wards to change because of it. I don't participate. I was maybe musing out = loud because I feel comfortable to do it in the list. (smile) =C2=A0 I am p= erfectly fine in the SWG archive, with the challenges and the B2ME month an= d so on. I've been in many fandoms since 1997, and I no longer feel the nee= d to get an award. Of course it's very nice when someone reads my stories a= nd gives me feedback on them. It's nice to chat about fandom issues and mee= t new people. =3D) =C2=A0 CC =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _____________________________= ___ From: Dawn Felagund To: SilmarillionWritersGu= ild@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [= SilmarillionWritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteer= s! =C2=A0 Hi, CC, Your post is perfectly appropriate here. This = is a good place for talking about fandom-related issues. :) The idea of ha= ving the stories remain anonymous was brought up in the ToME discussion ...= somewhere. :) In that discussion, it was decided that wasn't way people wa= nted to go for the ToMEs. You're right that they have been generally shaped= similarly to the MEFAs, i.e. with the review-based vote system. However,= as I've said in other places, the ToMEs do not=C2=A0need to be the only gi= g in town. Oshun mentioned that Zhie is setting up a fannish award as well.= The format being used by the ToMEs is really one of probably dozens of pos= sible award formats. Our fandom is on the brink of what will likely be anot= her boom in popularity, when the Hobbit=C2=A0movies are released. We can ce= rtainly sustain several different awards; I think it'd be a good thing if w= e did. Since I brought this up to someone else who was dissatisfied with = the ToMEs, and she took it completely the wrong way and assumed I was telli= ng her that her ideas weren't welcome and she should go set up her own sand= box, I will clarify that that is not=C2=A0what I'm saying here! :) I'd enco= urage anyone interested in the ToMEs to propose their ideas; they might cat= ch on! :) However, I think this fandom needs=C2=A0more than one award, just= as it needs more than one archive. When I started the SWG, it wasn't becau= se I was dissatisfied with HASA and OSA and the other places I was playing = at the time; I wasn't. But there seemed to be a need for a Silm-only archiv= e, so I met it. It wasn't an unwillingness to work with the existing archiv= es but a desire to do something totally new. I think that the dissolution o= f the MEFAs has inspired a lot of people to think about what they'd like to= see in a Tolkien fandom award; I hope a few of them at least run with thos= e ideas, as I think recognizing the effort and talent put into our fandom = is a good thing. Dawn On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Silver Trails wrote: >=C2=A0 >I am sure my idea won't change = anything because I believe you mean=C2=A0to replicate the MEFAS in some way= , but I thought I'd say what I think anyway. There are contests where peopl= e send their fics themselves, and then all the fics are uploaded without a = name on them. And people vote without knowing who wrote each fic. Of course= you'll know who the author is if you've read the fic before, but if you ha= ven't read it, you won't know and there will be some measure of objectivity= in your vote. >=C2=A0 >I know it's complicated to do, and that this is no= t the path you've chosen, but I got three awards on 2004 with fics that wer= e=C2=A0not really that good. At least one of them was bad, I think. But my = friends=C2=A0loved them and nominated them, and it was the first run of the= award, so there were few nominations. I don't mean to say that the voting = system is wrong, but it has a small flaw that might be solved if the fics w= ere uploaded without the author's names. The good authors would=C2=A0win an= yway. :) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaste= r/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --737196383-1347027541-1343864413=:97220 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi! :)
 
Just wanted to say what I= think, but I don't expect the new awards to change because of it. I don't = participate. I was maybe musing out loud because I feel comfortable to do i= t in the list. (smile)
 
I am perfectly fine in the SWG archive, with the challenges and the B2ME m= onth and so on. I've been in many fandoms since 1997, and I no longer feel = the need to get an award. Of course it's very nice when someone reads my st= ories and gives me feedback on them. It's nice to chat about fandom issues = and meet new people. =3D)
 
CC
&n= bsp;

 
=
From: Dawn Felagund <= ;DawnFelagund@gmail.com>
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 4:03 PM
<= b>Subject: Re: [SilmarillionW= ritersGuild] Tales of Middle-earth Award Looking for Volunteers!

 
=
Hi, CC,

Your post is perfectly appr= opriate here. This is a good place for talking about fandom-related issues.= :)

The idea of having the stories remain anonymou= s was brought up in the ToME discussion ... somewhere. :) In that discussio= n, it was decided that wasn't way people wanted to go for the ToMEs. You're= right that they have been generally shaped similarly to the MEFAs, i.e. wi= th the review-based vote system.

However, as I've= said in other places, the ToMEs do not need to be the only gig= in town. Oshun mentioned that Zhie is setting up a fannish award as well. = The format being used by the ToMEs is really one of probably dozens of poss= ible award formats. Our fandom is on the brink of what will likely be anoth= er boom in popularity, when the Hobbit movies are released. We = can certainly sustain several different awards; I think it'd be a good thin= g if we did.

Since I brought this up to someone e= lse who was dissatisfied with the ToMEs, and she took it completely the wro= ng way and assumed I was telling her that her ideas weren't welcome and she= should go set up her own sandbox, I will clarify that that is not&n= bsp;what I'm saying here! :) I'd encourage anyone interested in the ToMEs t= o propose their ideas; they might catch on! :) However, I think this fandom= needs more than one award, just as it needs more than one arch= ive. When I started the SWG, it wasn't because I was dissatisfied with HASA= and OSA and the other places I was playing at the time; I wasn't. But ther= e seemed to be a need for a Silm-only archive, so I met it. It wasn't an un= willingness to work with the existing archives but a desire to do something= totally new. I think that the dissolution of the MEFAs has inspired a lot = of people to think about what they'd like to see in a Tolkien fandom award;= I hope a few of them at least run with those ideas, as I think recognizin= g the effort and talent put into our fandom is a good thing.
Dawn

On We= d, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Silver Trails <silver.trails@yahoo.com> = wrote:
 
=
= I am sure my idea won't change anything because I believe you mean to = replicate the MEFAS in some way, but I thought I'd say what I think anyway.= There are contests where people send their fics themselves, and then all t= he fics are uploaded without a name on them. And people vote without knowin= g who wrote each fic. Of course you'll know who the author is if you've rea= d the fic before, but if you haven't read it, you won't know and there will= be some measure of objectivity in your vote.
 
I know it's complicated to do, and that this is n= ot the path you've chosen, but I got three awards on 2004 with fics that we= re not really that good. At least one of them was bad, I think. But my= friends loved them and nominated them, and it was the first run of th= e award, so there were few nominations. I don't mean to say that the voting= system is wrong, but it has a small flaw that might be solved if the fics = were uploaded without the author's names. The good authors would win a= nyway. :)

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/hereti= c_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
=


--737196383-1347027541-1343864413=:97220-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3459 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83660 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2012 14:21:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m15.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Aug 2012 14:21:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gh0-f181.google.com) (209.85.160.181) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2012 14:21:23 -0000 X-Received: by mail-gh0-f181.google.com with SMTP id z13so8935406ghb.12 for ; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 07:21:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.27.41 with SMTP id q9mr36830719oeg.47.1343917283495; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 07:21:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.14.200 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 07:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 10:21:23 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c5b04a518504c6492000 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: August 2012 Newsletter! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=DmrwKHzjKdCrKV9Fw2_fH3cs8TMry2PgBJtxQoCpTM67XtV4kjIV X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff1c5b04a518504c6492000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Last night, I posted our August 2012 newsletter: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/august2012.php Once again, August is our annual Akallabeth in August challenge! While the First Age gets lots of love from the Silmfic community, we sometimes overlook the high drama and intriguing characters from the Second Age. During August, we encourage our members to show the Second Age a little love by either trying their hands at a Second Age story, poem, essay, or work of art or reading some of the excellent Second Age work already on our archive. Our newsletter includes a list of all the Second Age work on our archive. (I hope! We sort through a lot of stories to make this list each year, so if you spot one we've missed, please drop a line to me or my comods so we can fix it.) In honor of Akallabeth in August, Oshun has written a truly fascinating biography of Erendis, whose story (along with that of her husband, Aldarion) is told in *Unfinished Tales*. This is one of Tolkien's most fascinating love stories, as it breaks the mold from his other more idealistic tales in some very notable ways. Oshun did an excellent job on this biography--I think it is one of her finest, and that is saying something given the consistently high quality of her work--so I encourage everyone to take a few minutes to learn more about this not-so-minor minor character from the Second Age. We're also adding something new to our Around the World and Web section this month. In addition to announcements from groups outside of the SWG, we will be linking to articles, posts, and discussions that might be of interest to the Tolkien fanfic community. We have our first set of links up this month, and we would really like to expand this! We encourage you all to send us links to interesting articles, posts, and discussions that you may find online. If you write a post that is related to Tolkien or the Tolkien fandom, please let us know so that we can link to it. And, of course, we have a list of all of the stories updated or added during the month of July. The "Of All That Remains" challenge continues, along with Akallabeth in August, and we have a new Quote of the Month as well. Lots of hands went into making this newsletter happen, so a huge thanks to Oshun, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica, who write and compile the content in the newsletter every month! All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff1c5b04a518504c6492000 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Last night, I posted our August 2012 newsletter= :


Once again, August is our annu= al Akallabeth in August challenge! While the First Age gets lots of love fr= om the Silmfic community, we sometimes overlook the high drama and intrigui= ng characters from the Second Age. During August, we encourage our members = to show the Second Age a little love by either trying their hands at a Seco= nd Age story, poem, essay, or work of art or reading some of the excellent = Second Age work already on our archive. Our newsletter includes a list of a= ll the Second Age work on our archive. (I hope! We sort through a lot of st= ories to make this list each year, so if you spot one we've missed, ple= ase drop a line to me or my comods so we can fix it.)

=
In honor of Akallabeth in August, Oshun has written a truly fascinatin= g biography of Erendis, whose story (along with that of her husband, Aldari= on) is told in Unfinished Tales. This is one of Tolkien's most f= ascinating love stories, as it breaks the mold from his other more idealist= ic tales in some very notable ways. Oshun did an excellent job on this biog= raphy--I think it is one of her finest, and that is saying something given = the consistently high quality of her work--so I encourage everyone to take = a few minutes to learn more about this not-so-minor minor character from th= e Second Age.

We're also adding something new= to our Around the World and Web section this month. In addition to announc= ements from groups outside of the SWG, we will be linking to articles, post= s, and discussions that might be of interest to the Tolkien fanfic communit= y. We have our first set of links up this month, and we would really like t= o expand this! We encourage you all to send us links to interesting article= s, posts, and discussions that you may find online. If you write a post tha= t is related to Tolkien or the Tolkien fandom, please let us know so that w= e can link to it.

And, of course, we have a list = of all of the stories updated or added during the month of July. The "= Of All That Remains" challenge continues, along with Akallabeth in Aug= ust, and we have a new Quote of the Month as well.

Lots of hands went into making this newsletter happen, so a huge thanks t= o Oshun, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica, who write and compile the conte= nt in the newsletter every month!

All the best,

--e89a8ff1c5b04a518504c6492000-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3460 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4305 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2012 13:51:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2012 13:51:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng19-ip1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.215.111) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Aug 2012 13:51:15 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.217.178] by ng19.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Aug 2012 13:51:15 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by tg3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Aug 2012 13:51:15 -0000 Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2012 13:51:15 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: Silmarillion trailer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=PW9mY9b7_P_ZTRtJ8O7vTpPg8nVrDG8bfcFW-VyQJcQ4oyhSxmrZ1Rs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard While Melkor and co are threathening to destroy my hard drive and I am in t= he middle of making some epic back-ups (you don't want to know, but I do no= t want to lose my art stuff)... I stumbled upon this trailer that woke up q= uite some muses here (oh the irony for the timing is so unfortunate)... it= is a fanmade trailer, and the MPAA warning at the start had me chuckling, = but whoboy... it is very very epic and well done: http://youtu.be/RT9UcZPT= 2DU Enjoy! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3461 Return-Path: X-Sender: phyncke@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32899 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2012 18:26:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2012 18:26:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qa0-f53.google.com) (209.85.216.53) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Aug 2012 18:26:33 -0000 X-Received: by qaas11 with SMTP id s11so250410qaa.19 for ; Sat, 04 Aug 2012 11:26:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.136.12 with SMTP id p12mr2840400qct.45.1344104792473; Sat, 04 Aug 2012 11:26:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.29.67 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 11:26:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 11:26:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00248c7118f5b241f104c674c86d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jane Fink Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion trailer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=465758493; y=3mUVbvhxVNBxg8h6jzoP9rU32ye_zJ5742YmzNZFd1lR X-Yahoo-Profile: fingolfin65 --00248c7118f5b241f104c674c86d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable love this! posting it to LJ. great share! On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 6:51 AM, = rhapsody_the_bard wrote: > ** > > > While Melkor and= co are threathening to destroy my hard drive and I am in > the middle of m= aking some epic back-ups (you don't want to know, but I do > not want to lo= se my art stuff)... I stumbled upon this trailer that woke up > quite some = muses here (oh the irony for the timing is so unfortunate)... > > it is a f= anmade trailer, and the MPAA warning at the start had me > chuckling, but w= hoboy... it is very very epic and well done: > > http://youtu.be/RT9UcZPT2D= U > > Enjoy! > > Rhapsody > > > --00248c7118f5b241f104c674c86d Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable love this! posting it to LJ. great share!

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 6:51 AM, rhapsody_the_bard <<= a href=3D"mailto:rhapsody74@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rhapsody74@gmail.c= om> wrote:
=
=A0
=

While Melkor and co are threathening to destroy my hard drive an= d I am in the middle of making some epic back-ups (you don't want to kn= ow, but I do not want to lose my art stuff)... I stumbled upon this trailer= that woke up quite some muses here (oh the irony for the timing is so unfo= rtunate)...

it is a fanmade trailer, and the MPAA warning at the = start had me chuckling, but whoboy... it is very very epic and well done:
http://yo= utu.be/RT9UcZPT2DU

Enjoy!

Rhapsody

=

--00248c7118f5b241f104c674c86d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3462 Return-Path: X-Sender: IsisRising08@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15694 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2012 00:15:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m14.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2012 00:15:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.145) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2012 00:15:11 -0000 X-Received: from mtaomg-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.10]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q750F6Rt006394 for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 20:15:06 -0400 X-Received: from core-mdc003a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mdc003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.45.137]) by mtaomg-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id DFCEDE000086 for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 20:15:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6512.5336cb4c.3d4f1509@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 20:15:05 -0400 (EDT) To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_6512.5336cb4c.3d4f1509_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132 x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:205593136:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d290a501dbb094a6d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: isisrising08@aol.com Subject: Re: Silmarillion trailer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=395515053; y=yZpWvvNVrTnUXgdVFh_kM8Kpxb9EsZDyaXJ1aiO3wbR4Pyee X-Yahoo-Profile: live2bead --part1_6512.5336cb4c.3d4f1509_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That was simply amazing. Now if it would only actually happen.... - Erulisse (one L) --part1_6512.5336cb4c.3d4f1509_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That was simply amazing.  Now if it w= ould only actually happen....
 
- Erulisse (one = L)
 
--part1_6512.5336cb4c.3d4f1509_boundary-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3463 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6530 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2012 05:59:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2012 05:59:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f179.google.com) (209.85.214.179) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2012 05:59:12 -0000 X-Received: by obbeh20 with SMTP id eh20so3323641obb.10 for ; Sat, 04 Aug 2012 22:59:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.236.97 with SMTP id ut1mr2402122igc.50.1344146352347; Sat, 04 Aug 2012 22:59:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.64.141.233 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 22:59:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 01:59:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9340b8ddb989204c67e7539 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Silmarillion trailer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=p599S6TZeEgOuGlKZvbCQyaADYgtJFL6TH7bnMgcD9zjnsDRvveFoA X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva --14dae9340b8ddb989204c67e7539 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 9:51 AM, rhapsody_the_bard wrote: > ** > > > While Melkor and co are threathening to destroy my hard drive and I am in > the middle of making some epic back-ups (you don't want to know, but I do > not want to lose my art stuff)... I stumbled upon this trailer that woke up > quite some muses here (oh the irony for the timing is so unfortunate)... > > it is a fanmade trailer, and the MPAA warning at the start had me > chuckling, but whoboy... it is very very epic and well done: > > http://youtu.be/RT9UcZPT2DU > > The writers responsible for that MPAA warning have been sacked. :-) And, given this is Melkor, clubbed by orcs while in said sacks. Sorry, but I couldn't quite resist... Marta --14dae9340b8ddb989204c67e7539 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 9:51 AM, rhapsody= _the_bard <rhapsody74@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0
=

While Melkor and co are threath= ening to destroy my hard drive and I am in the middle of making some epic b= ack-ups (you don't want to know, but I do not want to lose my art stuff= )... I stumbled upon this trailer that woke up quite some muses here (oh th= e irony for the timing is so unfortunate)...

it is a fanmade trai= ler, and the MPAA warning at the start had me chuckling, but whoboy... it i= s very very epic and well done:

http://youtu.be/RT9UcZPT2DU

<= /div>

The writers responsible f= or that MPAA warning have been sacked. :-) And, given this is Melkor, clubb= ed by orcs while in said sacks.=A0

Sorry, but I c= ouldn't quite resist...

Marta
--14dae9340b8ddb989204c67e7539-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3464 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12384 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2012 02:20:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2012 02:20:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f176.google.com) (209.85.214.176) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2012 02:20:23 -0000 X-Received: by obbtb18 with SMTP id tb18so10935283obb.35 for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 19:20:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.1.10 with SMTP id 10mr12825061obi.54.1346638822289; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 19:20:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.145.103 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2012 19:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 22:20:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0447f30aa4b08104c8c2c8ba X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: September 2012 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=VJivmiOB_E6iE4BjRCteWKHVSG99VklTYdnzkd068uPzKd5pQQY4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0447f30aa4b08104c8c2c8ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, The September 2012 edition of our newsletter is now available on the website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/september2012.php We don't have a lot of news from within the SWG this month--although we welcome several new members!--as real-life obligations and other fannish projects have been keeping the mod team hopping. We have several new things in the works that we hope to reveal soon! However, the Tolkien fandom beyond our borders has been quite busy, and our Around the World and Web section contains news of challenges, awards and contests, a fandom get-together, and two new Tolkien-related publications. Just a reminder, we are also collecting links to Tolkien-related posts and articles. This month, we share several links worth checking out. Thanks to Samtyr and Himring for their contributions! Please keep the links coming! This month's character biography accompanies last month's excellent biography of Erendis. This month, Oshun has written about Erendis's husband, Aldarion. One of many travel-loving mariners in Tolkien's legendarium, Aldarion nonetheless plays a valuable role in the stories, connecting the history of Numenor with the events of the Third Age. As always, Oshun has written a thought-provoking and insightful piece about a character that may have flown beneath the radar for many of us; her piece provides much inspiration for writing based on this little-discussed period of Arda's history. Finally, if you missed checking the archive while on holiday in August, no worries--this month's issue contains a complete list of stories added or updated during the past month. We also continue the "Of All That Remains" challenge and revisit the "Another Place in Time" challenge, so if your muses need a kick in the pants, why not check out one or both of these? Many, many thanks to Oshun, Rhapsody, and Russandol, whose contributions to this month's newsletter made my job very easy and very enjoyable. (It's always fun to be the first to read what they send in each month!) Happy reading! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0447f30aa4b08104c8c2c8ba Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

The September 2012 edition of our newslett= er is now available on the website:


<= /div>
We don't have a lot of news from within the SWG this month--a= lthough we welcome several new members!--as real-life obligations and other= fannish projects have been keeping the mod team hopping. We have several n= ew things in the works that we hope to reveal soon!

However, the Tolkien fandom beyond our borders has been quite busy, and = our Around the World and Web section contains news of challenges, awards an= d contests, a fandom get-together, and two new Tolkien-related publications= . Just a reminder, we are also collecting links to Tolkien-related posts an= d articles. This month, we share several links worth checking out. Thanks t= o Samtyr and Himring for their contributions! Please keep the links coming!=

This month's character biography accompanies= last month's excellent biography of Erendis. This month, Oshun has wri= tten about Erendis's husband, Aldarion. One of many travel-loving marin= ers in Tolkien's legendarium, Aldarion nonetheless plays a valuable rol= e in the stories, connecting the history of Numenor with the events of the = Third Age. As always, Oshun has written a thought-provoking and insightful = piece about a character that may have flown beneath the radar for many of u= s; her piece provides much inspiration for writing based on this little-dis= cussed period of Arda's history.

Finally, if = you missed checking the archive while on holiday in August, no worries--thi= s month's issue contains a complete list of stories added or updated du= ring the past month. We also continue the "Of All That Remains" c= hallenge and revisit the "Another Place in Time" challenge, so if= your muses need a kick in the pants, why not check out one or both of thes= e?

Many, many thanks to Oshun, Rhapsody, and Russ= andol, whose contributions to this month's newsletter made my job very = easy and very enjoyable. (It's always fun to be the first to read what = they send in each month!)

Happy reading!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn = Felagund
http://= themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--f46d0447f30aa4b08104c8c2c8ba-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3465 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24832 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2012 04:07:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m11.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2012 04:07:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ie0-f170.google.com) (209.85.223.170) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2012 04:07:34 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ie0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 7so2794792ied.15 for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 21:07:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.194.136 with SMTP id hw8mr9484540igc.11.1346645254457; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 21:07:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.64.58.17 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2012 21:07:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 00:07:34 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae934101b07c7fa04c8c448ae X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] September 2012 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=9ArNmlKkuMsYXzxZo-0a7nbl8IUvxTaE4enwXqcXf7fEZhy_1X3FPA X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva --14dae934101b07c7fa04c8c448ae Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 A special thanks to Oshun for the biography. It's well done, as usual, and really useful to me personally. Danke! Marta On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > ** > > > Hi, everyone, > > The September 2012 edition of our newsletter is now available on the > website: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/september2012.php > [snippage] > --14dae934101b07c7fa04c8c448ae Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A special thanks to Oshun for the biography. It's well done, as usual, = and really useful to me personally. Danke!

Marta

=
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Dawn Felagund <= span dir=3D"ltr"><DawnFelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0

Hi, everyone,


T= he September 2012 edition of our newsletter is now available on the website= :

[snippage]
<= /div>
--14dae934101b07c7fa04c8c448ae-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3466 Return-Path: X-Sender: heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86936 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2012 01:30:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.160) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2012 01:30:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.143) by mta4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2012 01:30:19 -0000 X-Received: from mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.140]) by imr-da01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q841U2wa027007 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2012 21:30:02 -0400 X-Received: from core-djd004c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-djd004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.69.205]) by mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id F3B36E00008E for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2012 21:30:01 -0400 (EDT) References: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CF5853F02B17DD_D44_1CECE6_webmail-m128.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36912-STANDARD X-Received: from 24.193.114.56 by webmail-m128.sysops.aol.com (149.174.9.15) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 03 Sep 2012 21:30:01 -0400 Message-Id: <8CF5853F01CCF97-D44-8187F@webmail-m128.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 21:30:01 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:517258816:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 7 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338c5045599900bc X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] September 2012 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=yWSYCDj_7O6St68bQiIBiQBSnBjfVeixC7_vKK-Xpo86oYb6LZBe X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8CF5853F02B17DD_D44_1CECE6_webmail-m128.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thank you, Marta! I just enjoyed re-reading some stories of yours in the Tr= ee and Flower awards for the MPTT archive, especially Spring's First Thaw a= nd my favorite still Walking Down Narrow Streets. -----Original Me= ssage----- From: Marta To: SilmarillionWritersGuil= d Sent: Mon, Sep 3, 2012 12:07 a= m Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] September 2012 Newsletter Posted!= A special thanks to Oshun for the biography. = It's well done, as usual, and really useful to me personally. Danke! Mart= a On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Dawn Felagund = wrote: Hi, everyone, The September 2012 ed= ition of our newsletter is now available on the website: http://www.silma= rillionwritersguild.org/news/september2012.php [snippage] = ----------MB_8CF5853F02B17DD_D44_1CECE6_webmail-m128.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Thank you,= Marta! I just enjoyed re-reading some stories of yours in the Tree and Flo= wer awards for the MPTT archive, especially Spring'= s First Thaw and my favorite still Walking Down Narrow Streets.


-----Original Message-----
From: Marta =
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild
Sent: Mon, Sep 3, 2012 12:07 am=
Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] September 2012 Newsletter Pos= ted!

  =
=
A special thanks to Oshun for the biography. It's well done, as us= ual, and really useful to me personally. Danke!

=
Marta

On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 a= t 10:20 PM, Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
=
 
=
Hi, everyone,

The= September 2012 edition of our newsletter is now available on the website:<= /div>

[snippag= e]
<= div>
= ----------MB_8CF5853F02B17DD_D44_1CECE6_webmail-m128.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3467 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41637 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2012 00:38:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m9.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2012 00:38:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oa0-f51.google.com) (209.85.219.51) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2012 00:38:58 -0000 X-Received: by oagl20 with SMTP id l20so5384748oag.38 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:38:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.131.37 with SMTP id oj5mr13425534obb.54.1347928737557; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:38:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.145.103 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 20:38:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f6436f895ad1504c9ef1db3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: ToME Award Update! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8_9wkBHvYhiuhyFENLxPcvewDuB2da3fTeP8yTqynq8KZq1raMBd X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f6436f895ad1504c9ef1db3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I wanted to give an update on the progress of the Tales of Middle-earth Awards, particularly because we still need input and volunteers. As we approach our next deadline, there's been a spurt of discussion, especially with respect to categorization. *All* input is welcome, whether you belong to the community or not, or even whether or not you're sure you're going to participate! :) Here is the community where the discussion is going on: http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/ Also, if you'd like to volunteer to help out, a new post for volunteers is up here: http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/43322.html All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f6436f895ad1504c9ef1db3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I wanted to give an update on the progress= of the Tales of Middle-earth Awards, particularly because we still need in= put and volunteers. As we approach our next deadline, there's been a sp= urt of discussion, especially with respect to categorization. All=C2= =A0input is welcome, whether you belong to the community or not, or even wh= ether or not you're sure you're going to participate! :) Here is th= e community where the discussion is going on:


Also, if you'd like to volunte= er to help out, a new post for volunteers is up here:

=

All the best= ,

--e89a8f6436f895ad1504c9ef1db3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3468 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62978 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2012 12:59:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2012 12:59:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-we0-f182.google.com) (74.125.82.182) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2012 12:59:39 -0000 X-Received: by weyx56 with SMTP id x56so6935913wey.27 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.216.162.141 with SMTP id y13mr64726wek.14.1347973177975; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 05:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from [10.0.0.5] (D4CC9DFD.cm-2.dynamic.ziggo.nl. [212.204.157.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hv8sm27284328wib.0.2012.09.18.05.59.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 18 Sep 2012 05:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50587022.7000509@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 14:59:14 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:15.0) Gecko/20120907 Thunderbird/15.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] ToME Award Update! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=GGC-42nsPuwPIyyTrMNtwYFbBN21m519D8cgmvMlWrUsEI3R57nwRuQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi Dawn! On 18-9-2012 2:38, Dawn Felagund wrote: > Hi, everyone, > > > I wanted to give an update on the progress of the Tales of Middle-earth > Awards, particularly because we still need input and volunteers. As we > approach our next deadline, there's been a spurt of discussion, > especially with respect to categorization. *All* input is welcome, > whether you belong to the community or not, or even whether or not > you're sure you're going to participate! :) Here is the community where > the discussion is going on: > > http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/ > > Also, if you'd like to volunteer to help out, a new post for volunteers > is up here: > > http://tome-awards.livejournal.com/43322.html argh! I typed a long comment with feedback there and LJ ate it resulting in a blank page! *sighs* I hope I can reproduce it this evening. Bah! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3469 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21704 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2012 14:40:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2012 14:40:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oa0-f41.google.com) (209.85.219.41) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2012 14:40:47 -0000 X-Received: by oagj6 with SMTP id j6so7546590oag.14 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 07:40:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.76.226 with SMTP id n2mr419707obw.89.1347979247389; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 07:40:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.145.103 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 07:40:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <50587022.7000509@gmail.com> References: <50587022.7000509@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:40:47 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04463288348c5d04c9fae07c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] ToME Award Update! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KRbxyT4SFwC6sdhd7ANENH1ag-c4XqFFtnqTTnd501JXCfaifTbI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d04463288348c5d04c9fae07c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Oh no! *cries* I've had that happen too many times. So much Felagundish wisdom, just lost to the ether. ;) I hope you get a chance to reproduce it, and if email is easiest (definitely more secure!), that's cool too. Dawn On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Rhapsody wrote: > > > argh! I typed a long comment with feedback there and LJ ate it resulting > in a blank page! *sighs* I hope I can reproduce it this evening. Bah! > > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d04463288348c5d04c9fae07c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh no! *cries* I've had that happen too many times. So much Felagundish= wisdom, just lost to the ether. ;) I hope you get a chance to reproduce it= , and if email is easiest (definitely more secure!), that's cool too.
Dawn

On Tue, Sep 18, 2= 012 at 8:59 AM, Rhapsody <rhapsody74@gmail.com> wrote:
<= br>
argh! I typed a long comment with feedback there and LJ ate it re= sulting
in a blank page! *sighs* I hope I can reproduce it this evenin= g. Bah!


-= -
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org
--f46d04463288348c5d04c9fae07c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3471 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20598 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2012 14:31:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2012 14:31:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f177.google.com) (209.85.214.177) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2012 14:31:45 -0000 X-Received: by obbwd20 with SMTP id wd20so1033464obb.8 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:31:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.0.169 with SMTP id 9mr3330543oef.94.1348756304638; Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:31:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.145.103 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:31:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff252fa6d32d104caafcc3c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Contacting the Mods September 29-30 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=dqSC0erdiz2HzSSxb3H2RNl1hrep1CQn7ZVXZWO1Ox2P-6zDXKXP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff252fa6d32d104caafcc3c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I just wanted to give a heads-up that I will be without Internet access this weekend, September 29-30. Many times, I get SWG-related correspondence via my personal email. This is no problem at all (the moderator email account actually auto-forwards to my personal email), but anything urgent that requires moderator attention this weekend should go to moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org so that my comods can make sure the issue is resolved. Thanks, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8ff252fa6d32d104caafcc3c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I just wanted to give a heads-up that I will be= without Internet access this weekend, September 29-30. Many times, I get S= WG-related correspondence via my personal email. This is no problem at all = (the moderator email account actually auto-forwards to my personal email), = but anything urgent that requires moderator attention this weekend should g= o to moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org so that my comods can ma= ke sure the issue is resolved.

Thanks,
=
--e89a8ff252fa6d32d104caafcc3c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3472 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31090 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2012 01:13:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2012 01:13:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f175.google.com) (209.85.214.175) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2012 01:13:52 -0000 X-Received: by obceq6 with SMTP id eq6so6756585obc.20 for ; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:13:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.5.193 with SMTP id u1mr13353948oeu.111.1349140431512; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:13:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.145.103 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 18:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 21:13:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1cf222c22e204cb093c5a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: October 2012 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=iaAvfznLIUxYUCg_6XooAEmBkAwVPEkV1eRMot5OOpcap8efa1k0 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8ff1cf222c22e204cb093c5a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, The SWG newsletter has been around for over seven years without m= issing a month. In that time, it has evolved from a few announcements and a= monthly challenge to a publication that takes dozens of hours to put toget= her each month and includes articles, comics, and collections of links. An= d I think this month's might be one of the best ever! http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org/news/october2012.php For those of you (like me!) who h= ave been enjoying learning more about the Second Age these past few months,= our resident biographer Oshun has put together a biography about V=C3=ABan= tur, the grandfather of Tar-Aldarion, whom she wrote about last month. The = Numenoreans' seafaring prowess not only formed their identity but led to th= eir downfall, and V=C3=ABantur was the character who inspired their nautica= l wanderlust. Pandemonium has drawn another "Gothmog & Draugluin" cartoon,= continuing Professor Thu's ... observation ... of Lil Gothmog and his pal = Draugluin while Gothmog's mom and dad are away. Ever wondered what Sauron's= online identity would be like? Read this month's comic to find out! Thank= s to the several members who contributed links, we have quite a bit of read= ing--and viewing!--to offer this month as part of Around the World and Web.= From Elven swords and Hobbit dimensions to videos of Tolkien reading in hi= s invented languages, this month's collection is both inspiring and intrigu= ing. If you've read or written something that would be of interest to our c= ommunity, please remember to send us a link so that we can include it in ou= r next newsletter! After that, we still have news from within the SWG (we'= re still looking for suggestions for the Library of Tirion!), announcements= from groups outside the SWG (challenges, awards, and memes), and a list of= the stories added and updated during the month of September. *And* we have= a new challenge this month, "The Circle of Life," in addition to revisitin= g a past challenge and a new quote of the month. Creating the content for = our newsletter is a huge effort each month that is shared among several vol= unteers. (I have the easy job of copyediting, coding, and enjoying a sneak = preview of what everyone's been up to all month!) Many, many thanks to Oshu= n, Pandemonium, Rhapsody, Angelica, and Russandol, who do such an amazing j= ob each month on our newsletter. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felag= und http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwrit= ersguild.org --e89a8ff1cf222c22e204cb093c5a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The SWG newsletter has been around for over sev= en years without missing a month. In that time, it has evolved from a few a= nnouncements and a monthly challenge to a publication that takes dozens of = hours to put together each month and includes articles, comics, and collect= ions of links.

And I think this month's might= be one of the best ever!


For those = of you (like me!) who have been enjoying learning more about the Second Age= these past few months, our resident biographer Oshun has put together a bi= ography about=C2=A0V=C3=ABantur, the grandfather of Tar-Aldarion, whom she = wrote about last month. The Numenoreans' seafaring prowess not only for= med their identity but led to their downfall, and=C2=A0V=C3=ABantur was the= character who inspired their nautical wanderlust.

Pandemonium has drawn another "Gothmog & Draugluin" cartoon= , continuing Professor Thu's ... observation ... of Lil Gothmog and his= pal Draugluin while Gothmog's mom and dad are away. Ever wondered what= Sauron's online identity would be like? Read this month's comic to= find out!

Thanks to the several members who cont= ributed links, we have quite a bit of reading--and viewing!--to offer this = month as part of Around the World and Web. From Elven swords and Hobbit dim= ensions to videos of Tolkien reading in his invented languages, this month&= #39;s collection is both inspiring and intriguing. If you've read or wr= itten something that would be of interest to our community, please remember= to send us a link so that we can include it in our next newsletter!
=

After that, we still have news from within the SWG (we&= #39;re still looking for suggestions for the Library of Tirion!), announcem= ents from groups outside the SWG (challenges, awards, and memes), and a lis= t of the stories added and updated during the month of September. And=C2=A0we have a new challenge this month, "The Circle of Life," = in addition to revisiting a past challenge and a new quote of the month.

Creating the content for our newsletter is a huge e= ffort each month that is shared among several volunteers. (I have the easy = job of copyediting, coding, and enjoying a sneak preview of what everyone&#= 39;s been up to all month!) Many, many thanks to Oshun, Pandemonium, Rhapso= dy, Angelica, and Russandol, who do such an amazing job each month on our n= ewsletter.

All the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net= /heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--e89a8ff1cf222c22e204cb093c5a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3473 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32212 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2012 13:13:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m15.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2012 13:13:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oa0-f54.google.com) (209.85.219.54) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2012 13:13:44 -0000 X-Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n9so1285969oag.41 for ; Tue, 09 Oct 2012 06:13:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.29.3 with SMTP id f3mr6145557oeh.97.1349788424462; Tue, 09 Oct 2012 06:13:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.92.45 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Oct 2012 06:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 09:13:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb202788fe16204cba01b5d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Spam on the SWG Site X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=z5UWTAlUE7t2S9MXhJ7K3Q840Sb7DiheutM4SIzupJzsoOSG2JHs X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8fb202788fe16204cba01b5d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, As some of you discovered, a spammer hit the SWG site last night, hitting us with 59 spam reviews. Rhapsody has already locked the account and deleted the spam reviews (thank you, Rhapsy! :). One of us will block the IP later; I'm at work right now. Thanks to those of you who reported the spam. We always appreciate it! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8fb202788fe16204cba01b5d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

As some of you discovered, a spammer hit the SWG site last = night, hitting us with 59 spam reviews. Rhapsody has already locked the acc= ount and deleted the spam reviews (thank you, Rhapsy! :). One of us will bl= ock the IP later; I'm at work right now. Thanks to those of you who rep= orted the spam. We always appreciate it!

Dawn

= --
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org
--e89a8fb202788fe16204cba01b5d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3474 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96982 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2012 17:16:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m14.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Oct 2012 17:16:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oa0-f52.google.com) (209.85.219.52) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Oct 2012 17:16:25 -0000 X-Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id o6so1927257oag.39 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:16:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.192.74 with SMTP id he10mr3280674obc.87.1350753385151; Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:16:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.92.45 with HTTP; Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:16:25 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9399da7b37d1c04cc80c7a6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Online Classes for Fantasy Writers X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=G6pUkDt9IV7r4H9eKy7NNFnwxHeVisy1e921CL_s6_lRG5nvhaE6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --14dae9399da7b37d1c04cc80c7a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, As the group owner, I periodically receive announcements from the Odyssey Writers' Workshop with the request to pass the announcement along if I think there is interest in the SWG. I have just received a list of online courses for 2013 that might be of interest to those of you who write original fantasy, sci-fi, and horror fiction. I'll include the announcement below. Best regards, Dawn ** ** ***************************************************************** Publicity Release**** October 2012**** ** ** ODYSSEY WRITING WORKSHOPS CHARITABLE TRUST **** ANNOUNCES WINTER 2013 ONLINE CLASSES**** ** ** For seventeen years, Odyssey has pursued its mission to help developing writers of fantasy, science fiction, and horror improve their work by holding its annual six-week, in-person workshop in Manchester, New Hampshire. **** ** ** Three years ago, Odyssey expanded its mission, taking the teaching techniques that are so effective at the workshop and adapting them to create online classes. Director Jeanne Cavelos explains, "Technology allows us to hold live online class meetings, so students can ask questions and participate in the class. Each course is designed to provide intensive focus on a particular aspect of fiction writing, and challenging homework assignments help students to improve their skills. Feedback from the instructor and from classmates allows students to gauge their progress. Each student also has an individual meeting with instructor." Courses provide a supportive yet challenging, energizing atmosphere, with class size limited to fourteen students. While courses are designed for adult writers of fantasy, science fiction, and horror, interested writers of other genres are welcome to apply. **** ** ** Last winter, Odyssey had a huge response to the three online courses offered. Writers from all over the world applied. This year, Odyssey is offering three different online courses covering some of the most critical issues for developing writers:**** ** ** Three-Act Structure in Fantastic Fiction **** Course Meets: January 2 - 30, 2013**** Instructor: Jeanne Cavelos**** Application Deadline: December 7, 2012**** ** ** When we first offered this course in 2011, we received more interest than in any course taught before or since. So we're offering it again, to provide more writers the chance to learn the exciting possibilities inherent in this plot structure. One of the greatest weaknesses of developing writers is plot. One of the best tools for strengthening plot is the act. Plotting in acts creates a more suspenseful, unpredictable, and emotionally satisfying experience for the reader. This course will start by defining key units of structure--the scene, chapter, and act--and explore why we need acts. We'll discuss the effect of acts, the importance of acts, how acts work in short fiction and novels, and how acts are used in science fiction, fantasy, and horror. How does one identify an act? When are three acts appropriate? Why are three acts so popular and powerful? We'll learn how to plot in three acts. We'll explore what makes a strong three-act plot and what makes a weak three-act plot. We'll look at powerful methods and weak methods of ending an act. We'll explore how to create a causal chain that generates escalations and a strong climax, how subplots work within three-act structure, the connection between structure and character transformation, and the unifying role of theme. **** ** ** Getting the Big Picture: The Key to Revising Your Novel **** Course Meets: January 7 - February 4, 2013**** Instructor: Barbara Ashford**** Application Deadline: December 11, 2012**** ** ** Barbara Ashford believes the most important skill a novelist needs is to be able to see the "big picture" of the novel, to understand where that big picture is lacking or weak, and to make the major changes necessary to create a coherent, complete, powerful, and unified novel. Barbara believes this skill made all the difference in her writing, transforming it from promising but unsalable to compelling and published. Writers often approach revisions as an opportunity to polish their manuscripts rather than to take a hard look at the story itself. If your plot meanders and your protagonist's goals are unclear, polishing your prose won't help. This course examines the "big picture" elements at the foundation of every novel: premise, promise, theme, world, character, and plot. Whether you've already completed your first draft, are still working on it, or are struggling with revisions, analyzing and strengthening those elements can lift your novel out of the slush pile and onto an agent's desk. Award-nominated author Barbara Ashford will examine each of these big picture elements and the ways that linking them can create a unified, compelling, powerful story. Through lecture, discussion, and writing exercises, students will analyze their premise, the promise that the novel is making to readers, the themes that arise from the novel, the world they have created, their protagonists' backstory, motivations, and goals, and the plot events they have chosen to lead the reader from the story's promise to its climax. **** ** ** Bodies and Heartbeats: Crafting Character from the Inside Out **** Course Meets: January 23 - February 20, 2013**** Instructor: Elaine Isaak**** Application Deadline: December 27, 2012**** ** ** "If you will try being fictional for a while, you will find that fictional characters are sometimes more real than people with bodies and heartbeats." --Richard Bach **** ** ** In her critiques as a guest lecturer at the Odyssey Writing Workshop and as a critiquer for the Odyssey Critique Service, Elaine Isaak has become legendary for identifying weaknesses in character and suggesting brilliant yet simple ways to strengthen characters. This course will help you to develop a clearer sense of what makes a powerful character and will teach you the techniques you need to develop strong characters. The first duty of the fiction writer is to make the reader care about people that don't exist. In this course, we'll talk about how to create the core of a sympathetic character and bring that character to life through words so that the reader invests in the dreams and challenges of your imagined people. Students will study and discuss examples, perform exercises to practice creating sympathetic and believable characters, and write short-shorts that put these new skills into practice. Students will also provide critiques of their classmates' work. **** ** ** More information about our online classes can be found here: http://www.sff.net/odyssey/online.html or by emailing jcavelos@sff.net.**** ** ** If you've visited the Odyssey site recently, you may need to click REFRESH on your browser to see the new content.**** ** ** PLEASE NOTE: Those application deadlines are coming up soon! If you would like to apply for more than one course, you must apply separately for each one. **** ** ** Odyssey's Online Classes pack valuable content into each session, allow for significant interaction with the instructor, and provide assignments that challenge students. The classes provide the tools students need to improve their writing, along with feedback on their work that reveals whether they are successfully using those tools. Cavelos says, "If you're ready to hear about the weaknesses in your writing and ready to work to overcome them, you'd be welcome to apply to our online classes." **** ** ** In addition, the Odyssey Web site, www.odysseyworkshop.org, offers many resources for writers, including free podcasts, writing and publishing tips, a writing blog, a critique service, and information about the six-week in-person workshop. **** ** ** The journey to take your writing to the next level starts now!**** ** ** ** ** -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --14dae9399da7b37d1c04cc80c7a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

As the group owner, I periodicall= y receive announcements from the Odyssey Writers' Workshop with the req= uest to pass the announcement along if I think there is interest in the SWG= . I have just received a list of online courses for 2013 that might be of i= nterest to those of you who write original fantasy, sci-fi, and horror fict= ion. I'll include the announcement below.

Bes= t regards,

Dawn

=C2=A0

***********************************************= **************

Publicity Release

October 2012

=C2=A0<= /p>

ODYSSEY WRITING WORKSHOPS CHARITABLE TRUST

ANNOUNCES WINTER 2013 ONLINE CLASSES

=C2=A0<= /u>

For sevent= een years, Odyssey has pursued its mission to help developing writers of fa= ntasy, science fiction, and horror improve their work by holding its annual= six-week, in-person workshop in Manchester, New Hampshire.=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

= Three years ago, Odyssey expanded its mission, taking the teaching techniqu= es that are so effective at the workshop and adapting them to create online= classes.=C2=A0 Director Jeanne Cavelos explains, "Technology allows u= s to hold live online class meetings, so students can ask questions and par= ticipate in the class.=C2=A0 Each course is designed to provide intensive f= ocus on a particular aspect of fiction writing, and challenging homework as= signments help students to improve their skills.=C2=A0 Feedback from the in= structor and from classmates allows students to gauge their progress.=C2=A0= Each student also has an individual meeting with instructor."=C2=A0 C= ourses provide a supportive yet challenging, energizing atmosphere, with cl= ass size limited to fourteen students.=C2=A0 While courses are designed for= adult writers of fantasy, science fiction, and horror, interested writers = of other genres are welcome to apply.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Last winter, Odyssey h= ad a huge response to the three online courses offered.=C2=A0 Writers from = all over the world applied.=C2=A0 This year, Odyssey is offering three diff= erent online courses covering some of the most critical issues for developi= ng writers:

=C2=A0

Three-Act Structure in Fantastic Fiction

Course Meets:=C2= =A0 January 2 - 30, 2013

Instructor:=C2=A0 Jeanne Cavelos

Application Dead= line:=C2=A0 December 7, 2012

=C2=A0

When we first offered this course in 2= 011, we received more interest than in any course taught before or since. S= o we're offering it again, to provide more writers the chance to learn = the exciting possibilities inherent in this plot structure.=C2=A0 One of th= e greatest weaknesses of developing writers is plot. One of the best tools = for strengthening plot is the act. Plotting in acts creates a more suspense= ful, unpredictable, and emotionally satisfying experience for the reader. T= his course will start by defining key units of structure--the scene, chapte= r, and act--and explore why we need acts. We'll discuss the effect of a= cts, the importance of acts, how acts work in short fiction and novels, and= how acts are used in science fiction, fantasy, and horror. How does one id= entify an act? When are three acts appropriate? Why are three acts so popul= ar and powerful? We'll learn how to plot in three acts. We'll explo= re what makes a strong three-act plot and what makes a weak three-act plot.= We'll look at powerful methods and weak methods of ending an act. We&#= 39;ll explore how to create a causal chain that generates escalations and a= strong climax, how subplots work within three-act structure, the connectio= n between structure and character transformation, and the unifying role of = theme.

=C2=A0

Getting the Big Picture:=C2=A0 The Key to Revising Your Novel=

Course Meets:=C2=A0 January 7 - February 4, 2013=

Instructor:=C2=A0 B= arbara Ashford

Application Deadline:=C2=A0 December 11, 2012<= /span>

=C2= =A0

Bar= bara Ashford believes the most important skill a novelist needs is to be ab= le to see the "big picture" of the novel, to understand where tha= t big picture is lacking or weak, and to make the major changes necessary t= o create a coherent, complete, powerful, and unified novel. Barbara believe= s this skill made all the difference in her writing, transforming it from p= romising but unsalable to compelling and published.=C2=A0 Writers often app= roach revisions as an opportunity to polish their manuscripts rather than t= o take a hard look at the story itself. If your plot meanders and your prot= agonist's goals are unclear, polishing your prose won't help. This = course examines the "big picture" elements at the foundation of e= very novel: premise, promise, theme, world, character, and plot. Whether yo= u've already completed your first draft, are still working on it, or ar= e struggling with revisions, analyzing and strengthening those elements can= lift your novel out of the slush pile and onto an agent's desk. Award-= nominated author Barbara Ashford will examine each of these big picture ele= ments and the ways that linking them can create a unified, compelling, powe= rful story. Through lecture, discussion, and writing exercises, students wi= ll analyze their premise, the promise that the novel is making to readers, = the themes that arise from the novel, the world they have created, their pr= otagonists' backstory, motivations, and goals, and the plot events they= have chosen to lead the reader from the story's promise to its climax.=

=C2=A0

Bodies and Heartbeats:=C2=A0 Crafting Character from the Inside Out=

Course Meets:=C2=A0 January 23 - February 20, 2013

Instructor:=C2=A0= Elaine Isaak

Application Deadline:=C2=A0 December 27, 2012

=C2= =A0

&qu= ot;If you will try being fictional for a while, you will find that fictiona= l characters are sometimes more real than people with bodies and heartbeats= ."
--Richard Bach

=C2=A0

In her critiques as a guest lecturer a= t the Odyssey Writing Workshop and as a critiquer for the Odyssey Critique = Service, Elaine Isaak has become legendary for identifying weaknesses in ch= aracter and suggesting brilliant yet simple ways to strengthen characters. = This course will help you to develop a clearer sense of what makes a powerf= ul character and will teach you the techniques you need to develop strong c= haracters. The first duty of the fiction writer is to make the reader care = about people that don't exist. In this course, we'll talk about how= to create the core of a sympathetic character and bring that character to = life through words so that the reader invests in the dreams and challenges = of your imagined people. Students will study and discuss examples, perform = exercises to practice creating sympathetic and believable characters, and w= rite short-shorts that put these new skills into practice. Students will al= so provide critiques of their classmates' work.

=C2=A0<= /span>

More informa= tion about our online classes can be found here:=C2=A0 http://www.sff.net/o= dyssey/online.html or by emailing jcavelos@sff.net.

=C2=A0

If you've visited = the Odyssey site recently, you may need to click REFRESH on your browser to= see the new content.

=C2=A0

PLEASE NOTE:=C2=A0 Those application deadline= s are coming up soon!=C2=A0 If you would like to apply for more than one co= urse, you must apply separately for each one.=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /span>

Odyssey'= s Online Classes pack valuable content into each session, allow for signifi= cant interaction with the instructor, and provide assignments that challeng= e students. The classes provide the tools students need to improve their wr= iting, along with feedback on their work that reveals whether they are succ= essfully using those tools.=C2=A0 Cavelos says, "If you're ready t= o hear about the weaknesses in your writing and ready to work to overcome t= hem, you'd be welcome to apply to our online classes."=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

In addition, the Odyssey Web site, www.odysseyworkshop.org<= /a>=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:normal">The journey to take your = writing to the next level starts now!

=C2=A0

=C2=A0




--
~oOo~
D= awn Felagund
htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--14dae9399da7b37d1c04cc80c7a6-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3475 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16579 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2012 17:20:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m9.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2012 17:20:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oa0-f52.google.com) (209.85.219.52) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2012 17:20:37 -0000 X-Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id o6so4321056oag.11 for ; Sat, 03 Nov 2012 10:20:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.29.3 with SMTP id f3mr4052031oeh.97.1351963237171; Sat, 03 Nov 2012 10:20:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.92.45 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Nov 2012 10:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 13:20:37 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb202788040f004cd9a78dd X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Two Announcements: We Now Accept Podfic *and* the November Newsletter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-meUm1UV4qusKMJQ44KNmUz5jqbAL9ElFnN2F9LR_Lv65lvwTHhh X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8fb202788040f004cd9a78dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I post to the group at the beginning of each month, when I post our newsletter, but this month, I have an extra bit of exciting news to report from the SWG moderation team. My comods and I are pleased to announce that we now accept podfics on the SWG archive! Some of you might now be asking, "What in the world is a podfic??" Podfics are audio recordings of stories, similar to audiobooks, that you can listen to on your computer or your MP3 player. We all occasionally find ourselves in situations where reading is less than ideal or even impossible, and now you can bring your favorite stories along with you! We hope that, by offering podfics on the archive, we will help our authors to reach a broader audience. Making a podfic is easy. All you need to get started is a microphone for your computer and audio-editing software. Free versions of the latter exist; I use Audacity, and besides being free, it took me less than an hour to go from a complete audio ignoramus to recording my first story. Once you record your story, you can host it on a third-party service--we suggest several on our podfic page--or we'll be happy to store your file for you on our server. Complete instructions and resources are available on the SWG website. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/podfic/ We will also be sharing a podfic each month in our newsletter. Even if you're not ready to start recording podfics yet, we encourage you to recommend the stories you'd like to hear recorded as part of the Podfic of the Month. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/podfic/forms/request.php We also need volunteers who would be willing to help us record the featured podfic each month. You can have your name added to the list of people we contact about potential assignments here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/podfic/forms/reader.php All you need to know to get started should be found on the podfic page linked above, but as always, we welcome questions at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Also, our November newsletter is now also available! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/november2012.php Aside from news within and beyond our borders, we also have a list of October's new additions to the archive, if you're looking for something to read. We're continuing last month's "Circle of Life" challenge and revisiting the "It's Magic!" challenge, if your muses need a little coaxing. And we have a list of links to articles that our members might find interesting, in the Around the World and Web section. As always, the highlight of the newsletter is the character biography. Oshun has written this month about Elured and Elurin, the twin sons of Dior who were abandoned to die in the forest by Celegorm's servants. It's Oshun's particular talent to take characters who are barely discussed in the text and connect them in meaningful ways to literature, folklore, mythology, and history beyond Tolkien's world, adding depth to characters who otherwise risk becoming mere names listed in the index. This month's biography is no exception, and Oshun explores connections between the story of Elured and Elurin and real-world folktales and history, as well as discussing how their story enhances the complexity of characters who receive more page-time. Oshun has done a fabulous job once again--and in the middle of a hurricane at that!--and I highly recommend her article. Many, many thanks go out to those who contribute every month to our newsletter: Oshun, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica. I also want to give a shout-out to my co-mods, who have made the podfic feature on our archive possible. These are big, many-faceted tasks--we've been working on this one sporadically for months--that would be impossible without their contributions, expertise, and endless patience (mostly with me and quite often with eFiction as well ;). Thank you Rhapsody, Angelica, Tarion, and Russandol, who I honestly believe make up the best team of comods a website owner could wish for! All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8fb202788040f004cd9a78dd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

I post to the group at the beginning of ea= ch month, when I post our newsletter, but this month, I have an extra bit o= f exciting news to report from the SWG moderation team. My comods and I are= pleased to announce that we now accept podfics on the SWG archive!
=

Some of you might now be asking, "What in the worl= d is a podfic??" Podfics are audio recordings of stories, similar to a= udiobooks, that you can listen to on your computer or your MP3 player. We a= ll occasionally find ourselves in situations where reading is less than ide= al or even impossible, and now you can bring your favorite stories along wi= th you! We hope that, by offering podfics on the archive, we will help our = authors to reach a broader audience.

Making a po= dfic is easy. All you need to get started is a microphone for your computer= and audio-editing software. Free versions of the latter exist; I use Audac= ity, and besides being free, it took me less than an hour to go from a comp= lete audio ignoramus to recording my first story. Once you record your stor= y, you can host it on a third-party service--we suggest several on our podf= ic page--or we'll be happy to store your file for you on our server. Co= mplete instructions and resources are available on the SWG website.
<= div>

We will also be sharing a podfic each month in our newsletter. Even = if you're not ready to start recording podfics yet, we encourage you to= recommend the stories you'd like to hear recorded as part of the Podfi= c of the Month.


We also need= volunteers who would be willing to help us record the featured podfic each= month. You can have your name added to the list of people we contact about= potential assignments here:


A= ll you need to know to get started should be found on the podfic page linke= d above, but as always, we welcome questions at moderator AT silmarillionwr= itersguild DOT org.

Also, our November newsletter= is now also available!


Aside from= news within and beyond our borders, we also have a list of October's n= ew additions to the archive, if you're looking for something to read. W= e're continuing last month's "Circle of Life" challenge a= nd revisiting the "It's Magic!" challenge, if your muses need= a little coaxing. And we have a list of links to articles that our members= might find interesting, in the Around the World and Web section.

As always, the highlight of the newsletter is the characte= r biography. Oshun has written this month about Elured and Elurin, the twin= sons of Dior who were abandoned to die in the forest by Celegorm's ser= vants. It's Oshun's particular talent to take characters who are ba= rely discussed in the text and connect them in meaningful ways to literatur= e, folklore, mythology, and history beyond Tolkien's world, adding dept= h to characters who otherwise risk becoming mere names listed in the index.= This month's biography is no exception, and Oshun explores connections= between the story of Elured and Elurin and real-world folktales and histor= y, as well as discussing how their story enhances the complexity of charact= ers who receive more page-time. Oshun has done a fabulous job once again--a= nd in the middle of a hurricane at that!--and I highly recommend her articl= e.

Many, many thanks go out to those who contribu= te every month to our newsletter: Oshun, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica.= I also want to give a shout-out to my co-mods, who have made the podfic fe= ature on our archive possible. These are big, many-faceted tasks--we've= been working on this one sporadically for months--that would be impossible= without their contributions, expertise, and endless patience (mostly with = me and quite often with eFiction as well ;). Thank you Rhapsody, Angelica, = Tarion, and Russandol, who I honestly believe make up the best team of como= ds a website owner could wish for!

All the best,<= /div>

--e89a8fb202788040f004cd9a78dd-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3477 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6143 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2012 21:34:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2012 21:34:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng6-ip1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.215.153) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2012 21:34:10 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.217.179] by ng6.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2012 21:34:09 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.119] by tg4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2012 21:34:09 -0000 Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 21:34:08 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "Red" Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2013 - Signups beginning today! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=4_hJY9X22Bw7wwuO3Svc45Fy_ev1aJz4M9o6feLqwQtvt_IzrnAs X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin Sign up now for My Slashy Valentine 2013: a Tolkien Slash exchange! From th= e Years of the Trees through the Fourth Age =96 it's time once again to mak= e your Tolkien FPS fanfic dreams come true=85 Have you always wanted to re= ad a certain pairing or scenario, but couldn't write it yourself? Or have a= plot bunny that's been rolling around in your mind, but just can't see you= rself writing that particular story? Have it written for you =96 specifica= lly and especially for your own sweet self! And share your own fic gift in = exchange! That's right, it's time for My Slashy Valentine brought to you b= y the same folks who sponsor the renowned Slashy Santa and Ardor in August = Fiction Exchange. Fhe exchange focuses solely on the Elves, Man, Valar and= Maiar of J.R.R. Tolkien's legendarium. Maybe it's Legolas and Haldir you l= ove, or perhaps Aragorn-on-Halbarad strikes your fancy... or maybe Manwe is= your main man - from the First Age to the Fourth =96 spread the word, recr= uit your friends and fellow authors, and have some fun! Sign-ups begin Sun= day, December 2, 2012 and will close at midnight (GMT-5:00) on Sunday, Dece= mber 16, 2012. For first time participants, stories will be due by January = 31st, and for returning writers they will be due on February 7th. They will= be unveiled on SlashySanta.com on Fe= bruary 14th, 2013. How does a fiction exchange work? It's simple. READ THE= RULES posted in the Slashy Santa LJ community (link here ) and you will find a link to the sign-up p= age where you may specify a pairing, rating, and the plot elements you woul= d like to read, as well as the elements you are willing to write, and someo= ne will write a story for you. In exchange, you will write a story for some= one else using the specifications they provide. Even if you don't want to = take part in the exchange, you can still elect to be a reserve writer to be= called upon in case of an emergency. Just say so on the signup form. All = we ask is that you adhere to some basic rules - If you sign up, please make= sure that you can follow through and write at least 1,200 words. Please no= te also that this is a SLASH only FPS exchange (no RPS or het, please). PL= EASE NOTE: If you have defaulted in previous years, you will NOT be allowed= to participate this year! These stories are gifts for your friends and fel= low fans, and it is incredibly disappointing for a participant who has work= ed hard to turn in their own story only to find that we have nothing to giv= e them. There will be no exceptions to this rule. Visit the Swap Rules and= FAQ for the full set of rules and = Frequently Asked Questions. Here are some important dates to make note of:= * Dec. 2nd - 16th : Sign-up period * Dec. 23rd: Assignments delivered * J= an. 31th: Stories due from first time participants * Feb. 7th: Stories due = from returning writers * Feb. 14th: Archive opens Come check out SlashySan= ta.com and peruse some of the past en= tries - they're terrific and will give you an idea of what's in store! Hop= e to see you there! The Slashy Mod "'Tis Always the Season for Slash!" From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3478 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1981 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2012 15:44:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2012 15:44:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f177.google.com) (209.85.217.177) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2012 15:44:20 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f177.google.com with SMTP id n10so475104lbo.36 for ; Fri, 07 Dec 2012 07:44:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.99.195 with SMTP id es3mr2677493lbb.132.1354895058844; Fri, 07 Dec 2012 07:44:18 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.138.233 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Dec 2012 07:44:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 10:44:18 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9d7182cb0bd3204d0451697 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: December Newsletter--Belated Announcement! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=PV1A2BpVEsy5_UjnV93sWFzVcbVlzZWLgKQ97J12Rkmf1LYyItCs X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --14dae9d7182cb0bd3204d0451697 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I rushed to get the newsletter done last week and then forgot to post to the group to say that it was available! You can find the December newsletter here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/december2012.php Oshun wrote a biography this month on Nessa that fleshes out one of the most minor of minor characters into someone who almost begs to be written. (Any takers?) We also have a collection of links to interesting articles and discussions around the web, plus our usual news, challenges, and links to stories posted in December. Many thanks to Oshun, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica for their contributions this month. On a personal note, as anyone who is waiting for a reply from me for weeks now can attest, I am a bit in the weeds due to juggling work and grad school at the moment. One of my classes will be ending soon, so you should get your usual attentive group owner back then. :) I very much appreciate everyone's patience with me. Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --14dae9d7182cb0bd3204d0451697 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I rushed to get the newsletter done last week a= nd then forgot to post to the group to say that it was available! You can f= ind the December newsletter here:


= Oshun wrote a biography this month on Nessa that fleshes out one of the mos= t minor of minor characters into someone who almost begs to be written. (An= y takers?) We also have a collection of links to interesting articles and d= iscussions around the web, plus our usual news, challenges, and links to st= ories posted in December. Many thanks to Oshun, Rhapsody, Russandol, and An= gelica for their contributions this month.

On a p= ersonal note, as anyone who is waiting for a reply from me for weeks now ca= n attest, I am a bit in the weeds due to juggling work and grad school at t= he moment. One of my classes will be ending soon, so you should get your us= ual attentive group owner back then. :) I very much appreciate everyone'= ;s patience with me.

Enjoy!

<= div>Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
<= a href=3D"http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/">http://themidhavens.= net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--14dae9d7182cb0bd3204d0451697-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3479 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1010 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2012 19:38:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.162) by m13.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2012 19:38:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng4-ip2.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.165.18) by mta6.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2012 19:38:08 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.164.126] by ng4.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2012 19:38:08 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by tg7.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2012 19:38:07 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 19:38:07 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "Red" Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2013 - Last call for sign-ups! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=BzCeNO2ttDeZS5bnwSPZ6m_4UCzsHJGzdS4EPkfFI1yDQgDVsoLl X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin My Slashy Valentine 2013 (Tolkien fandom, all Ages, FPS only) sign-ups end = tonight at midnight. If you would like to receive a special fic tailored to= your prompts and write a reciprocal fic for someone else, sign up now whil= e it is still open! Important Dates: Sign-up period: December 2 - December= 16 Assignments to be distributed no later than December 23 Deadline for fi= rst-time participants: January 31, 2013 Deadline for returning participants= : February 7, 2013 Archive opens: February 14, 2013 Head on over to here f= or the rules and sign-up link: http://slashy-santa.livejournal.com/70061.ht= ml We'd love to have you! Slashy Mod From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3480 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33203 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2013 01:39:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2013 01:39:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f43.google.com) (209.85.215.43) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2013 01:39:46 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f43.google.com with SMTP id eg20so9016073lab.30 for ; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 17:39:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.29.10 with SMTP id f10mr20529378lbh.4.1357263585474; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 17:39:45 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.78.39 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jan 2013 17:39:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 20:39:45 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5555654e0f87c04d26c8d82 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: January 2013 Newsletter Posted! And Proposed ToS Change X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=oDHdn2q1iaLDT72U6JeEB66Eq1X4zO-MSmAiFDPbFRlNyflw9ql3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec5555654e0f87c04d26c8d82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I just had to add a 2013 section to the newsletter archive. How crazy is that?! Time flies. Our January 2013 newsletter is now available! It's a little bit late, but that's partly because we have lots of good stuff to offer this month. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/january2013.php In News, we actually have an announcement that we'd like to draw our members' attention to. We mod-types are proposing an addition to our Terms of Service that would require a valid email address upon registering on our archive. We are accepting comments on this proposal through January 17. You can find the proposal and leave a comment here: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/209196.html Our News section also contains our annual New Years' letter, a welcome to our new members, and a reminder about podfic because we will be starting up the Featured Podfic very soon! This past month was a big month for the Tolkien fandom, as the first *Hobbit * movie was released. In honor of that occasion, Scarlet has written us a wonderful biography about Thranduil, one of those characters who spans the ages. Her biography collects information from many sources to provide a full portrait of Thranduil, a fan favorite and oft-subjected to fanon, as well as analyzing the truth behind some of those fanon claims to reveal a character deserving of a place among the great Elvenkings. We have a new challenge this month as well! "The Things We Never Said" asks you to choose one of those moments when a character could have achieved forgiveness or closure and rewrite it so that she or he does. If you've ever wanted to give your favorite character a happy ending, now's your chance! If writing adventures is more your speed, we also revisit our "Great Journeys" challenge this month. In Around the World and Web, we have collected announcements and articles that might be of interest to our members. This month, we have a collection of challenges and classes on offer--and of course, today is Tolkien's birthday! We've put together several interesting articles and other links worth checking out, including a list of *Hobbit* movie reviews by our members. If you're interested in joining a discussion about the movies, this is a great place to start! We had lots of stories added and updated this month on our archive, so if you're looking for something to read, our monthly story list is a great place to start. We have a number of new authors this month, so why not welcome one of them with a review? That's all for this month. Writing the New Years' letter always makes me a little sentimental, so I want to thank everyone for all they do to keep this group alive and well. Even though it was a little scary to add "2013" to the newsletter archive, it was also quite awesome to see going-on ten years of SWG happenings documented in our newsletter. We've been at this a while and still going strong! :) Thanks to all of you for making that possible. Best wishes for a great 2013, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec5555654e0f87c04d26c8d82 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I just had to add a 2013 section to the newslet= ter archive. How crazy is that?! Time flies.

Our J= anuary 2013 newsletter is now available! It's a little bit late, but th= at's partly because we have lots of good stuff to offer this month.


In News, we actually have an announceme= nt that we'd like to draw our members' attention to. We mod-types a= re proposing an addition to our Terms of Service that would require a valid= email address upon registering on our archive. We are accepting comments o= n this proposal through January 17. You can find the proposal and leave a c= omment here:


Our News section also contains our ann= ual New Years' letter, a welcome to our new members, and a reminder abo= ut podfic because we will be starting up the Featured Podfic very soon!

This past month was a big month for the Tolkien fand= om, as the first Hobbit=C2=A0movie was released. In honor of that oc= casion, Scarlet has written us a wonderful biography about Thranduil, one o= f those characters who spans the ages. Her biography collects information f= rom many sources to provide a full portrait of Thranduil, a fan favorite an= d oft-subjected to fanon, as well as analyzing the truth behind some of tho= se fanon claims to reveal a character deserving of =C2=A0a place among the = great Elvenkings.

We have a new challenge this mo= nth as well! "The Things We Never Said" asks you to choose one of= those moments when a character could have achieved forgiveness or closure = and rewrite it so that she or he does. If you've ever wanted to give yo= ur favorite character a happy ending, now's your chance! If writing adv= entures is more your speed, we also revisit our "Great Journeys" = challenge this month.

In Around the World and Web= , we have collected announcements and articles that might be of interest to= our members. This month, we have a collection of challenges and classes on= offer--and of course, today is Tolkien's birthday! We've put toget= her several interesting articles and other links worth checking out, includ= ing a list of Hobbit=C2=A0movie reviews by our members. If you'r= e interested in joining a discussion about the movies, this is a great plac= e to start!

We had lots of stories added and upda= ted this month on our archive, so if you're looking for something to re= ad, our monthly story list is a great place to start. We have a number of n= ew authors this month, so why not welcome one of them with a review?
=

That's all for this month. Writing the New Years= 9; letter always makes me a little sentimental, so I want to thank everyone= for all they do to keep this group alive and well. Even though it was a li= ttle scary to add "2013" to the newsletter archive, it was also q= uite awesome to see going-on ten years of SWG happenings documented in our = newsletter. We've been at this a while and still going strong!=C2=A0:)= =C2=A0Thanks to all of you for making that possible.

<= div>Best wishes for a great 2013,

Dawn
<= br>
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
= http://www.silmarillion= writersguild.org
--bcaec5555654e0f87c04d26c8d82-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3481 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90755 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2013 00:38:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.35.161) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2013 00:38:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f43.google.com) (209.85.215.43) by mta5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2013 00:38:09 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f43.google.com with SMTP id eg20so1137396lab.30 for ; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:38:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.29.10 with SMTP id f10mr26862771lbh.4.1357691888086; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:38:08 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.78.39 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 16:38:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 19:38:07 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5555654b430bb04d2d04660 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month 2013 Is Coming! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Awed3Xn-NFkgeZIUta5KIDYoTUk7a8zW2YO47Hz8-ky6Y72cXR_C X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec5555654b430bb04d2d04660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Yes, that time of the year is drawing near again, and the organizers behind Back to Middle-earth Month, or B2MeM, have begun to discuss what we'd like to do for this year's event. We've opened a thread on the B2MeM LiveJournal community for sharing ideas for possible events. We also encourage people to share feedback on past events that they liked or that didn't work as well for them. If you'd like to share an idea or an opinion, please stop by our post and leave a comment! http://b2mem.livejournal.com/198061.html For those of you who may be new to B2MeM, it is an event held every March as a way to encourage participation in the Tolkien writing and art fandoms. It is a collaboration between several Tolkien groups--the Silmarillion Writers' Guild, Many Paths to Tread, and Arda Inspired--and we welcome all creative works inspired by Tolkien's world. As in years past, we also welcome other groups who'd like to join us as affiliates, so if you run a Tolkien-based fan group and would like to help host B2MeM, just drop me a line at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com and I'll begin including you in anything that goes out to our group leaders. Affiliate groups get early access to challenge materials so that they can share them on their groups. Please also feel free to pass on this message to other groups that might be interested in B2MeM (with permission of the admins of those groups, of course. ;) Looking forward to seeing many of you at this year's B2MeM! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec5555654b430bb04d2d04660 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, that time of the year is drawing near again, and the organizers behind= Back to Middle-earth Month, or B2MeM, have begun to discuss what we'd = like to do for this year's event. We've opened a thread on the B2Me= M LiveJournal community for sharing ideas for possible events. We also enco= urage people to share feedback on past events that they liked or that didn&= #39;t work as well for them. If you'd like to share an idea or an opini= on, please stop by our post and leave a comment!


For those of you who may be new t= o B2MeM, it is an event held every March as a way to encourage participatio= n in the Tolkien writing and art fandoms. It is a collaboration between sev= eral Tolkien groups--the Silmarillion Writers' Guild, Many Paths to Tre= ad, and Arda Inspired--and we welcome all creative works inspired by Tolkie= n's world.

As in years past, we also welcome = other groups who'd like to join us as affiliates, so if you run a Tolki= en-based fan group and would like to help host B2MeM, just drop me a line a= t DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com and I'll begin including you in anythin= g that goes out to our group leaders. Affiliate groups get early access to = challenge materials so that they can share them on their groups. Please als= o feel free to pass on this message to other groups that might be intereste= d in B2MeM (with permission of the admins of those groups, of course. ;)

Looking forward to seeing many of you at this year&= #39;s B2MeM!

Dawn
--bcaec5555654b430bb04d2d04660-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3482 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6345 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2013 16:31:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.135) by m12.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2013 16:31:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f176.google.com) (209.85.217.176) by mta1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2013 16:31:03 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id s4so270863lbc.35 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 08:31:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.136.20 with SMTP id pw20mr1227056lab.16.1358613062641; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 08:31:02 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.78.39 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 08:31:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 11:31:02 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d042f9210fc6a1904d3a6c036 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Upcoming Tolkien Courses X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=fDKcDdsGcpL9tJLH7XjF1xL9V63tatNB_La8natr7fAr6Kaw31pW X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d042f9210fc6a1904d3a6c036 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, A few courses are on offer this spring for those interested in delving deeper into the academic side of Tolkien's works. I wanted to share these links in case anyone is interested! :) The Mythgard Institute has two Tolkien-related courses coming up this spring: "The Story of the Hobbit," taught by Dr. Corey Olsen, and "Tolkien's World of Middle-earth," taught by Dr. Verlyn Flieger. Both courses are entirely online. Registration ends in just over six days, so don't delay if you think you might be interested. http://www.mythgard.org/academics/spring-2013-courses/ I audited two Mythgard courses over the summer: Latin I and a course about Arthurian literature taught by Dr. Flieger. Audit fees are very reasonable for graduate-level coursework, and I highly recommend Dr. Flieger as an instructor. I'm trying to talk myself out of her course this spring, as I am already taking six credits toward my MA and really can't handle a third class. In six days, I guess we'll know if I'm successful. ;) Finally, if you'll be in the Oxford area this spring, Oxford University is hosting a lecture series about Tolkien's works on March 21-23. http://www.english.ox.ac.uk/news-events/upcoming-events/201303/oxford-tolkien-spring-school All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d042f9210fc6a1904d3a6c036 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

A few courses are on offer this spring for thos= e interested in delving deeper into the academic side of Tolkien's work= s. I wanted to share these links in case anyone is interested! :)

The Mythgard Institute has two Tolkien-related courses com= ing up this spring: "The Story of the Hobbit," taught by Dr. Core= y Olsen, and "Tolkien's World of Middle-earth," taught by Dr.= Verlyn Flieger. Both courses are entirely online. Registration ends in jus= t over six days, so don't delay if you think you might be interested.


I audited two Mythgard courses over the summer: L= atin I and a course about Arthurian literature taught by Dr. Flieger. Audit= fees are very reasonable for graduate-level coursework, and I highly recom= mend Dr. Flieger as an instructor. I'm trying to talk myself out of her= course this spring, as I am already taking six credits toward my MA and re= ally can't handle a third class. In six days, I guess we'll know if= I'm successful. ;)

Finally, if you'll be= in the Oxford area this spring, Oxford University is hosting a lecture ser= ies about Tolkien's works on March 21-23.


All= the best,

Dawn

--
~oOo~<= br>Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org <= /div> --f46d042f9210fc6a1904d3a6c036-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3483 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62630 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2013 01:30:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2013 01:30:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f48.google.com) (209.85.215.48) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2013 01:30:12 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f48.google.com with SMTP id fq13so3059423lab.7 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:30:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.26.70 with SMTP id j6mr10086760lbg.55.1358904611777; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:30:11 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.78.39 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:30:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 20:30:11 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5555630ab2e6a04d3eaa2ff X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013 Decision Poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=utuV2iS6y5kOdsFYoUlfj8ulhUvCf2aPmuqhtHhtkuX1HkAtzpoi X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec5555630ab2e6a04d3eaa2ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, My comods and I have gathered and compiled that almost-200 comments worth of feedback on 2013's B2MeM challenge and put together a poll to determine community preference for what event we should run this year. If you're interested in participating in B2MeM this year, please stop by this post and vote! http://b2mem.livejournal.com/198271.html If you do not have a LiveJournal account, please leave your vote as a comment on the post. (Comments are screened, although we appreciate if you sign your fandom name so that we know we're receiving votes from real people. :) I will gather poll results on Friday evening EST (GMT-5), so make sure to vote before then. Best regards to all, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec5555630ab2e6a04d3eaa2ff Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, everyone,

My comods and I have gathered and compiled= that almost-200 comments worth of feedback on 2013's B2MeM challenge a= nd put together a poll to determine community preference for what event we = should run this year. If you're interested in participating in B2MeM th= is year, please stop by this post and vote!


If you do not have a LiveJournal= account, please leave your vote as a comment on the post. (Comments are sc= reened, although we appreciate if you sign your fandom name so that we know= we're receiving votes from real people. :)

I= will gather poll results on Friday evening EST (GMT-5), so make sure to vo= te before then.

Best regards to all,
--bcaec5555630ab2e6a04d3eaa2ff-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3484 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70271 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2013 23:04:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.163) by m7.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2013 23:04:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f176.google.com) (209.85.217.176) by mta3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2013 23:04:33 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id s4so5560908lbc.21 for ; Sat, 02 Feb 2013 15:04:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.144.164 with SMTP id sn4mr14951030lab.57.1359846273060; Sat, 02 Feb 2013 15:04:33 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.78.39 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Feb 2013 15:04:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 18:04:32 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f22c4af0e0e6204d4c5e27f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: February 2013 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=U5c3bQWejn4opmnqto2-2ZH2n3vES93djO8XphO3iIIg5w7xVTp4 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f22c4af0e0e6204d4c5e27f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I have just finished and posted our newsletter for February: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2013.php Our biggest news this month is that we have begun the Featured Podfic! For our very first Featured Podfic, Elleth has kindly allowed me to apply my Baltimore accent to her haunting and deeply symbolic experimental piece "Five Fires." A link to listen to or download the podfic can be found in the newsletter or in the Podfic section of our archive! A friendly reminder that, as part of the Featured Podfic, we will share a new podfic recording each month of a work of fiction, poetry, or nonfiction from our archive. Anyone can recommend a podfic for this program, so if there's a story you'd love to hear read out loud, please use our podfic page to let us know: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/podfic/*. *We'll do the hard part of contacting the author for permission and setting up a reader. Any SWG member can also add their own podfics to the archive; instructions can be found at the link above. Also in the newsletter this month, I have written a character biography for Mahtan, a character who doesn't get a lot of page-time in the published * Silmarillion* but whose fuller development in the HoMe books makes him an appealing character to write about and especially intriguing in his role as a vehicle for Tolkien's oft-used theme about the potential of knowledge to corrupt. February is Valentine's Day, so let's put some love in the air for our characters! This month's revisited challenge, "One True Love," asks you to write the non-canonical pairing that toys with your imagination and that you never thought you'd dare to write. We also continue the "Things We Never Said" challenge if forgiveness and redemption are more your speed. In SWG news, Back to Middle-earth Month (B2MeM) begins in March, and we are once again a host group. Outside of the SWG, we link to a bunch of different challenges, as well as interesting reads from beyond our group. I hope you enjoy this month's newsletter! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f22c4af0e0e6204d4c5e27f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I have just finished and posted our newsletter = for February:


Our biggest news thi= s month is that we have begun the Featured Podfic! For our very first Featu= red Podfic, Elleth has kindly allowed me to apply my Baltimore accent to he= r haunting and deeply symbolic experimental piece "Five Fires." A= link to listen to or download the podfic can be found in the newsletter or= in the Podfic section of our archive!

A friendly= reminder that, as part of the Featured Podfic, we will share a new podfic = recording each month of a work of fiction, poetry, or nonfiction from our a= rchive. Anyone can recommend a podfic for this program, so if there's a= story you'd love to hear read out loud, please use our podfic page to = let us know:=C2=A0http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/podfic/. We'll do= the hard part of contacting the author for permission and setting up a rea= der.=C2=A0Any SWG member can also add their own podfics to the archive; ins= tructions can be found at the link above.

Also in= the newsletter this month, I have written a character biography for Mahtan= , a character who doesn't get a lot of page-time in the published Si= lmarillion=C2=A0but whose fuller development in the HoMe books makes hi= m an appealing character to write about and especially intriguing in his ro= le as a vehicle for Tolkien's oft-used theme about the potential of kno= wledge to corrupt.

February is Valentine's Da= y, so let's put some love in the air for our characters! This month'= ;s revisited challenge, "One True Love," asks you to write the no= n-canonical pairing that toys with your imagination and that you never thou= ght you'd dare to write. We also continue the "Things We Never Sai= d" challenge if forgiveness and redemption are more your speed.
=

In SWG news, Back to Middle-earth Month (B2MeM) begins = in March, and we are once again a host group. Outside of the SWG, we link t= o a bunch of different challenges, as well as interesting reads from beyond= our group.

I hope you enjoy this month's new= sletter!

--e89a8f22c4af0e0e6204d4c5e27f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3485 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61560 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2013 23:01:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2013 23:01:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng14-vm5.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.136.219.174) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2013 23:01:11 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.0.80] by ng14.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2013 23:01:10 -0000 X-Received: from [10.193.94.46] by tg1.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2013 23:01:10 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 23:01:08 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "Red" Subject: The My Slashy Valentine Archive is OPEN! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=5EjFfJcc0jeAkPHYZ57gc9VSlRP4X2wn1saycnu-OHmZZqBSgwie X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin They're here! They're here! The Slashy Valentines are here! We have 31 bra= nd spanking new stories on Slashysanta.com from our 2013 My Slashy Valentin= e fic exchange. Come on over to our website and check them out. There is so= mething for everyone: every rating, LoTR and Silm alike. I'm excited to say= we have femslash for the first time this year! Just head on over to http:= //slashysanta.com/eFiction/ and don't forget to drop the writers a line or = two after you read them! Red The Slashy Mod From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3486 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48098 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2013 03:37:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2013 03:37:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ia0-f174.google.com) (209.85.210.174) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 2013 03:37:48 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ia0-f174.google.com with SMTP id o25so3828689iad.5 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2013 19:37:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.195.231 with SMTP id ih7mr3333440igc.55.1360985868448; Fri, 15 Feb 2013 19:37:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.42.254.70 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Feb 2013 19:37:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 22:37:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9340cfb3bb52b04d5cf370d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013 Guidelines Posted AND Banner Makers Needed! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=gtsxYsQB7j9tSbkxD-Bfv5mY31ccTN1L3yDw_QdUbKOzbiucfu6- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --14dae9340cfb3bb52b04d5cf370d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Amid major life events, foreign travel, and prolonged Internet outages at work (that would be me ... more than two weeks now >:^|), the B2MeM mods have been slowly moving forward in getting ready for this year's event. Earlier, we polled the community about preferences for theme, among other things. As luck would have it, we had a draw: a perfect tie between the scavenger hunt and alphabet themes for this year's event. We have decided to combine them by using the scavenger hunt format, with the prompts inspired by the alphabet. So ... we bring you B2MeM 2013 *Scavenger Hunt: Expedition in the Abecedarium! The guidelines have been posted on our community:* http://b2mem.livejournal.com/198471.html As always, we welcome all members of the Tolkien fandom. All formats are welcome--and we've once again provided an option for readers and reviewers to participate--as well as all genres and ratings. Whether participants want to create a single work or enjoy the challenge of working on something new every day, we welcome one and all to B2MeM! :) We also need volunteers willing to help us create banners for participants to use. If you'd like to help out with this, please see this post: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/198843.html As always, I'm happy to answer any questions about how to participate. I hope to see many of you for B2MeM 2013! :) Best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --14dae9340cfb3bb52b04d5cf370d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Amid major life events, foreign travel, and pro= longed Internet outages at work (that would be me ... more than two weeks n= ow >:^|), the B2MeM mods have been slowly moving forward in getting read= y for this year's event. Earlier, we polled the community about prefere= nces for theme, among other things. As luck would have it, we had a draw: a= perfect tie between the scavenger hunt and alphabet themes for this year&#= 39;s event. We have decided to combine them by using the scavenger hunt for= mat, with the prompts inspired by the alphabet.

S= o ... we bring you B2MeM 2013=C2=A0Scavenger Hun= t: Expedition in the Abecedarium! The guidelines have been posted on our co= mmunity:

<= span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">
As always= , we welcome all members of the Tolkien fandom. All formats are welcome--an= d we've once again provided an option for readers and reviewers to part= icipate--as well as all genres and ratings. Whether participants want to cr= eate a single work or enjoy the challenge of working on something new every= day, we welcome one and all to B2MeM! :)

We also need volunteers willing to help us create ba= nners for participants to use. If you'd like to help out with this, ple= ase see this post:

<= font color=3D"#222222" face=3D"Arial">= http://b2mem.livejourn= al.com/198843.html

As always, I'm happy to answer any questions about how to participa= te. I hope to see many of you for B2MeM 2013! :)
<= font color=3D"#222222" face=3D"Arial">=
Best wishes,

Dawn
 --14dae9340cfb3bb52b04d5cf370d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3487 Return-Path: X-Sender: marta.fandom@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49222 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2013 11:02:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.151) by m8.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2013 11:02:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qa0-f48.google.com) (209.85.216.48) by mta5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2013 11:02:07 -0000 X-Received: by mail-qa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id j8so1456070qah.7 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 03:02:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.222.14 with SMTP id ie14mr10242399qab.61.1361790127212; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 03:02:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.49.95.169 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 03:02:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 06:02:07 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Marta Subject: substantial edits to "A Bird in the Hand" posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=368015352; y=fQ1TGy9BLWGsAISvpikfym1yPR2M5AuNOOBoRSBKCBgEHGyy4w6E_Q X-Yahoo-Profile: aure_enteluva Hey guys, I'm working through my old stories and trying to get them better organized for my new blog. In the course of that, I've been making edits - sometimes just correcting typos, but in other cases really trying to fine-tune things to make the stories work better. One of those that got a good tire-kicking is "A Bird in the Hand." It's essentially the story of Barahir (Faramir's + Eowyn's grandson who wrote the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen and other appendices sources), and in particular his attempt to grapple with the idea that the Akallabeth was not purely a natural event. It's basically the philosophical problem of theodicy wrapped up in fanfic, and my own thoughts on that issue have definitely developed since I teach it as part of my philosophy courses. So I tried to give a better discussion of the philosophy. But I also tried to tease out Barahir's backstory a little more and just clear up some writing that wasn't as sharp as I would have liked. Anyway, I've updated the version posted to SWG. In case anyone's interested I thought I'd post a link here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=492 Looking forward to the upcoming BMEM! Marta From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3488 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74650 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2013 16:09:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.151) by m4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2013 16:09:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f171.google.com) (209.85.217.171) by mta5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2013 16:09:53 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id gg13so2336033lbb.2 for ; Fri, 01 Mar 2013 08:09:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.144.138 with SMTP id sm10mr9512624lab.53.1362154192830; Fri, 01 Mar 2013 08:09:52 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Mar 2013 08:09:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 11:09:52 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f22c6f5cb096e04d6df3c09 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month Has Begun! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YwSofbJ_sFeaglw0oW8Tro4wB68a572ECge6Q-m-XlzQUDZL5UWu X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f22c6f5cb096e04d6df3c09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Today is March 1st and the official kickoff of our annual Back to Middle-earth Month (B2MeM) event! This year's event is *Scavenger Hunt: Expedition in the Abecedarium*, and the first round of prompts have been posted. This year, in an effort to encourage those who wanted to spend B2MeM working on one or a few longer works, we have presented a wealth of prompts for the first day. Prompts this year are quotes from Tolkien's books. We encourage participants to locate the quote in the book (that's the scavenger hunt part!), reading the surrounding section or chapter, and use that reading as inspiration for a story or artwork. Pieces do *not* have to include the scene from the book; participants might, for example, write about a character, setting, theme, or idea presented in the scene, to name just a few of the most obvious approaches. The first day's prompts (and myriad lovely icons to commemorate your participation!) are available here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/200004.html Throughout the month, we will post additional quotes as prompts (never as many as we've posted today!). I cannot emphasize enough the importance of using the prompts in the way that fits best for you, as a writer or artist. There is a misconception that B2MeM is about trying to write something for a prompt every day, and although many participants enjoy doing just that, that it is the sole or primary point of B2MeM simply is not the case. Instead, March is a month that we have set aside to celebrate and prioritize the creation and enjoyment of Tolkien-based fanworks. Some participants might grab a prompt or two today to work on a piece across the month. Others might choose a prompt to start with today, using subsequent prompts to shape their piece in new directions. Others might like to write a drabble or vignette per day, using a prompt offered that day. All are welcome! B2MeM is an event for the entire Tolkien fandom, so no matter what formats, genres, characters, pairings, ratings, and interpretations you enjoy, and whether you can join us for one day or thirty-one, you are welcome at B2MeM. Hope to see many of you there! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f22c6f5cb096e04d6df3c09 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

Today is March 1st and the official kickoff of = our annual Back to Middle-earth Month (B2MeM) event! This year's event = is Scavenger Hunt: Expedition in the Abecedarium, and the first roun= d of prompts have been posted. This year, in an effort to encourage those w= ho wanted to spend B2MeM working on one or a few longer works, we have pres= ented a wealth of prompts for the first day. Prompts this year are quotes f= rom Tolkien's books. We encourage participants to locate the quote in t= he book (that's the scavenger hunt part!), reading the surrounding sect= ion or chapter, and use that reading as inspiration for a story or artwork.= Pieces do not=C2=A0have to include the scene from the book; partici= pants might, for example, write about a character, setting, theme, or idea = presented in the scene, to name just a few of the most obvious approaches. = The first day's prompts (and myriad lovely icons to commemorate your pa= rticipation!) are available here:


Throughout the month, we will post= additional quotes as prompts (never as many as we've posted today!). I= cannot emphasize enough the importance of using the prompts in the way tha= t fits best for you, as a writer or artist. There is a misconception that B= 2MeM is about trying to write something for a prompt every day, and althoug= h many participants enjoy doing just that, that it is the sole or primary p= oint of B2MeM simply is not the case. Instead, March is a month that we hav= e set aside to celebrate and prioritize the creation and enjoyment of Tolki= en-based fanworks. Some participants might grab a prompt or two today to wo= rk on a piece across the month. Others might choose a prompt to start with = today, using subsequent prompts to shape their piece in new directions. Oth= ers might like to write a drabble or vignette per day, using a prompt offer= ed that day. All are welcome!

B2MeM is an event f= or the entire Tolkien fandom, so no matter what formats, genres, characters= , pairings, ratings, and interpretations you enjoy, and whether you can joi= n us for one day or thirty-one, you are welcome at B2MeM. Hope to see many = of you there!

Dawn

--
~oO= o~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org=
--e89a8f22c6f5cb096e04d6df3c09-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3489 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15046 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2013 06:42:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.135) by m6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2013 06:42:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f176.google.com) (209.85.217.176) by mta1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2013 06:42:36 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id s4so3144557lbc.7 for ; Sat, 02 Mar 2013 22:42:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.106.5 with SMTP id gq5mr14099279lab.5.1362292955554; Sat, 02 Mar 2013 22:42:35 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Mar 2013 22:42:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 01:42:35 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04083f2db2acbb04d6ff8bb4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM Day Three: Wildcard Day! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ErGwoeESu6ROLqtKpZ7sa8UHpJRXRSxpLrcRC9ypwyrppmjMFAmu X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d04083f2db2acbb04d6ff8bb4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 *It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.* Throughout the month, we will offer weekly wildcard days, days when there are no new prompts but instead a simple, Tolkien-related task, for those who wish to participate. We hope wildcard days will give you a chance to refresh your muses, read, catch up on your WiPs, and *breathe*! :) Our first wildcard day task: *Step out your front door.* B2MeM is an event for the entire Tolkien fandom. Just look at what's been posted so far! All three major books are represented and characters ranging from Bilbo to Balrogs, Finrod to Faramir. Because of our diversity, though, we may not all know each other and we may define ourselves more by the communities from which we come rather than viewing B2MeM as itself a community. So, today, step out from your front door. Say hello and meet someone new. Lean out, take a look down the road, and ponder where it leads. *He used often to say there was only one Road; that it was like a great river: its springs were at every doorstep, and every path was its tributary. * To participate, leave a comment and introduce yourself here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/202611.html. (Don't have an LJ account? Anonymous comments are welcome; just allow the mods time to "unscreen" your comment so that all can see it.) Tell us the name you go by, what your passion is in fandom, and anything else about yourself that you want to share. Then, share a link to your favorite of the fanworks that you've created. (If you're new and don't have any fanworks yet, feel free to share a link to your favorite work by another author or artist.) The link you share does not have to be to a B2MeM piece; please make sure you include appropriate ratings and warnings if this won't be apparent when visitors click on the link. After you've introduced yourself, take a moment to read/view another person's fanwork and leave them a comment to say hi and tell them what you thought. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d04083f2db2acbb04d6ff8bb4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's a dangerous business, Frodo, goi= ng out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your= feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.

Throughout the month, we will offer weekly wildcard da= ys, days when there are no new prompts but instead a simple, Tolkien-relate= d task, for those who wish to participate. We hope wildcard days will give = you a chance to refresh your muses, read, catch up on your WiPs, and=C2=A0<= /span>breathe! :)

Our first wildcard da= y task:=C2=A0Step out your fro= nt door.

B2MeM is an event for the en= tire Tolkien fandom. Just look at what's been posted so far! All three = major books are represented and characters ranging from Bilbo to Balrogs, F= inrod to Faramir. Because of our diversity, though, we may not all know eac= h other and we may define ourselves more by the communities from which we c= ome rather than viewing B2MeM as itself a community. So, today, step out fr= om your front door. Say hello and meet someone new. Lean out, take a look d= own the road, and ponder where it leads.

= He used often to say there was only one Road; that it was like a great rive= r: its springs were at every doorstep, and every path was its tributary.

To participate, leave a= comment and introduce yourself here:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/202611.html. (Don'= ;t have an LJ account? Anonymous comments are welcome; just allow the mods = time to "unscreen" your comment so that all can see it.)=C2=A0 Te= ll us the name you go by, what your passion is in fandom, and anything else= about yourself that you want to share. Then, share a link to your favorite= of the fanworks that you've created. (If you're new and don't = have any fanworks yet, feel free to share a link to your favorite work by a= nother author or artist.) The link you share does not have to be to a B2MeM= piece; please make sure you include appropriate ratings and warnings if th= is won't be apparent when visitors click on the link.

After you've introduced yourself, take= a moment to read/view another person's fanwork and leave them a commen= t to say hi and tell them what you thought.

--f46d04083f2db2acbb04d6ff8bb4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3490 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59616 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2013 02:18:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2013 02:18:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f178.google.com) (209.85.217.178) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2013 02:18:25 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id n1so3489950lba.23 for ; Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:18:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.36.2 with SMTP id m2mr3758553lbj.100.1362363504418; Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:18:24 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Mar 2013 18:18:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:18:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04244532bc6cf104d70ff8d4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Four X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8MsGvHf2fqLVGlNguinvdSg2CiIUqUCMlRxpOHUImWMz21yTsRif X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d04244532bc6cf104d70ff8d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Four of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger = Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to par= ticipate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one from= each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, ch= oose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80= =99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, and= create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be based o= n the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you could= also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Remem= ber, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of the= prompts! =E2=80=9C'Give me leave, lord,[...] and I will guard him and gui= de him as I may; then no man shall say that elven-words are lightly spoken.= Nor would I wish to see so great a good run to nothing in the wild.'=E2=80= =9D =E2=80=9CThe sun went down, and there came a great silence. Darkness f= ell upon the land, and the sea was still, while the world waited for what s= hould betide. Slowly the fleets passed out of the sight of the watchers in = the havens, and their lights faded, and night took them; and in the morning= they were gone. For a wind arose in the east and it wafted them away; and = they broke the Ban of the Valar, and sailed into forbidden seas, going up w= ith war against the Deathless, to wrest from them everlasting life within t= he Circles of the World.=E2=80=9D "Down the swift dark stream you go Back = to lands you once did know..." May the muses smile upon you! :) Dawn -- = ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d04244532bc6cf104d70ff8d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for Day Four of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenge= r Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to p= articipate:=C2=A0http://b2mem= .livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of th= e three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one th= at sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the sc= avenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, and create you= r piece based on that.

Your pi= ece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be based on the scene from the quote. Whi= le this is certainly one approach, you could also write about a character, = location, or theme found in the scene. Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt = police, and we encourage creative use of the prompts!

=E2=80=9C'Give me leave, lord,[..= .] and I will guard him and guide him as I may; then no man shall say that = elven-words are lightly spoken. Nor would I wish to see so great a good run= to nothing in the wild.'=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9CThe sun went down, and there came a great s= ilence. Darkness fell upon the land, and the sea was still, while the world= waited for what should betide. Slowly the fleets passed out of the sight o= f the watchers in the havens, and their lights faded, and night took them; = and in the morning they were gone. For a wind arose in the east and it waft= ed them away; and they broke the Ban of the Valar, and sailed into forbidde= n seas, going up with war against the Deathless, to wrest from them everlas= ting life within the Circles of the World.=E2=80=9D

"Down the swift dark stream you = go
Back to lands = you once did know..."

May the muses smile upon you! = :)

=
Dawn
 --f46d04244532bc6cf104d70ff8d4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3491 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55297 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2013 02:28:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.151) by m12.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2013 02:28:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f47.google.com) (209.85.215.47) by mta5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2013 02:28:14 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f47.google.com with SMTP id fj20so4469863lab.20 for ; Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:28:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.144.138 with SMTP id sm10mr16246159lab.53.1362364093769; Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:28:13 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Mar 2013 18:28:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:28:13 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f22c6f5dd307604d7101bb7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: March 2013 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=TA4oxOQgMp0E51ifZna-z3zSTNEr-fxUKa-5VE-TEirPRNH2SqYR X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f22c6f5dd307604d7101bb7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I actually posted the newsletter more than a day ago, but the annual task of launching the lead balloon that is Back to Middle-earth Month has kept me preoccupied since then. You can find our most recent newsletter here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/march2013.php In addition to news from within and beyond the SWG, a collection of links, and a list of stories added to the archive for February, we have a couple notable pieces this month. First is Oshun's monthly biography, this month of Amdir, the father of Amroth of Lorien, a Second Age character who receives very few mentions in the texts. Yet, as she has a knack for doing, Oshun has taken this minor character and used his biography as a springboard to discuss some of the fascinating issues and ideas that involve his character, namely the relationship between the various "races" of Elves: the Calaquendi, Sindar, and Avari. For the monthly podfic, I have recorded Oshun's short story "A Ponderous Tome," a lighthearted look at young Elrond's relationship with his foster fathers Maedhros and Maglor. Appropriately enough (and unplanned, believe it or not!), "A Ponderous Tome" was written for B2MeM two years ago. You can listen to or download the story at the link above. We have two challenges running currently. "The Things We Never Said" lets you grant a character a second chance to say something he or she didn't in the text but that may have made a difference in the outcome of the story. For those who like the challenge of writing rare characters and groups, we revisit the "Noegyth Nibin" challenge, which simply invites writers to write something involving the Petty-dwarves, one of those oft-overlooked character groups. I hope you enjoy this month's newsletter. Many thanks to Oshun, Rhapsody, and Angelica for their help writing and compiling the newsletter this month! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f22c6f5dd307604d7101bb7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I actually posted the newsletter more than a da= y ago, but the annual task of launching the lead balloon that is Back to Mi= ddle-earth Month has kept me preoccupied since then. You can find our most = recent newsletter here:


In addition to n= ews from within and beyond the SWG, a collection of links, and a list of st= ories added to the archive for February, we have a couple notable pieces th= is month. First is Oshun's monthly biography, this month of Amdir, the = father of Amroth of Lorien, a Second Age character who receives very few me= ntions in the texts. Yet, as she has a knack for doing, Oshun has taken thi= s minor character and used his biography as a springboard to discuss some o= f the fascinating issues and ideas that involve his character, namely the r= elationship between the various "races" of Elves: the Calaquendi,= Sindar, and Avari.

For the monthly podfic, I hav= e recorded Oshun's short story "A Ponderous Tome," a lighthea= rted look at young Elrond's relationship with his foster fathers Maedhr= os and Maglor. Appropriately enough (and unplanned, believe it or not!), &q= uot;A Ponderous Tome" was written for B2MeM two years ago. You can lis= ten to or download the story at the link above.

W= e have two challenges running currently. "The Things We Never Said&quo= t; lets you grant a character a second chance to say something he or she di= dn't in the text but that may have made a difference in the outcome of = the story. For those who like the challenge of writing rare characters and = groups, we revisit the "Noegyth Nibin" challenge, which simply in= vites writers to write something involving the Petty-dwarves, one of those = oft-overlooked character groups.

I hope you enjoy= this month's newsletter. Many thanks to Oshun, Rhapsody, and Angelica = for their help writing and compiling the newsletter this month!
<= br>
--e89a8f22c6f5dd307604d7101bb7-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3492 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44838 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2013 02:37:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2013 02:37:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f46.google.com) (209.85.215.46) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2013 02:37:27 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f46.google.com with SMTP id fq12so5582449lab.5 for ; Mon, 04 Mar 2013 18:37:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.28.102 with SMTP id a6mr5248789lbh.109.1362451046526; Mon, 04 Mar 2013 18:37:26 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 18:37:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 21:37:26 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040168b3a6fab604d7245a3e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Five X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=1JzBxPTE3dHoZIQs9doc4UK_xJcdVu8QyO0-QedYWXFPBHTbHrDO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d040168b3a6fab604d7245a3e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Five of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger = Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to par= ticipate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one from= each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, ch= oose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80= =99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, and= create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be based o= n the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you could= also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Remem= ber, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of the= prompts! =E2=80=9CLong they dwelt in their first home by the water under = stars, and they walked the Earth in wonder; and they began to make speech a= nd to give names to all things that they perceived. Themselves they named t= he Quendi, signifying those that speak with voices; for as yet they had met= no other living things that spoke or sang.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CThen Ar-Phar= az=C3=B4n hardened his heart, and he went aboard his mighty ship, Alcaronda= s, Castle of the Sea. Many-oared it was and many-masted, golden and sable; = and upon it the throne of Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4n was set. Then he did on his pano= ply and his crown, and let raise his standard, and he gave the signal for t= he raising of the anchors; and in that hour the trumpets of N=C3=BAmenor ou= trang the thunder.=E2=80=9D "But when Aragorn arose all that beheld him ga= zed in silence, for it seemed to them that he was revealed to them now for = the first time. Tall he seemed and yet in the flower of manhood; and wisdom= sat upon his brow, and strength and healing were in his hands, and a light= was about him." Happy writing/drawing/creating! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn = Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillio= nwritersguild.org --f46d040168b3a6fab604d7245a3e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for Day Five of Ba= ck to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal commu= nity for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0ht= tp://b2mem.livejournal.com/

<= /div>
Be= low are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80= =99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interesting, locate th= e quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the sur= rounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on that.
Your piece does=C2=A0not= =C2=A0need to be based on the sc= ene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you could also wr= ite about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Remember, the= re=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of the prompts= !

=E2=80=9CLong = they dwelt in their first home by the water under stars, and they walked th= e Earth in wonder; and they began to make speech and to give names to all t= hings that they perceived. Themselves they named the Quendi, signifying tho= se that speak with voices; for as yet they had met no other living things t= hat spoke or sang.=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9CThen Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4= n hardened his heart, and he went aboard his mighty ship, Alcarondas, Castl= e of the Sea. Many-oared it was and many-masted, golden and sable; and upon= it the throne of Ar-Pharaz=C3=B4n was set. Then he did on his panoply and = his crown, and let raise his standard, and he gave the signal for the raisi= ng of the anchors; and in that hour the trumpets of N=C3=BAmenor outrang th= e thunder.=E2=80=9D

"But when Aragorn arose all that beheld him g= azed in silence, for it seemed to them that he was revealed to them now for= the first time. Tall he seemed and yet in the flower of manhood; and wisdo= m sat upon his brow, and strength and healing were in his hands, and a ligh= t was about him."

Happy writing/drawing/creating! :)=

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fe= lagund
http://th= emidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d040168b3a6fab604d7245a3e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3493 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86155 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2013 03:52:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.150) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2013 03:52:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f180.google.com) (209.85.217.180) by mta2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2013 03:52:38 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f180.google.com with SMTP id q12so5409086lbc.11 for ; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 19:52:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.46.131 with SMTP id v3mr23550307lam.57.1362541957365; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 19:52:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:52:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:52:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec55403ea5c45cd04d739859c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Six X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=7nqBA0oZRtWCiDzzKrkVPpAJbu8fgBGf7XP87cdL8AudV3U6dBtL X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec55403ea5c45cd04d739859c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Six of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger H= unt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to part= icipate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one from = each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, cho= ose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80= =99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, and= create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be based o= n the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you could= also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Remem= ber, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of the= prompts! =E2=80=9CYet no song or tale could contain all the grief and ter= ror that then befell. The Light failed; but the Darkness that followed was = more than loss of light. In that hour was made a Darkness that seemed not l= ack but a thing with being of its own: for it was indeed made by malice out= of Light, and it had power to pierce the eye, and to enter heart and mind,= and strangle the very will.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CAt the top, as high as Gand= alf could reach, was an arch of interlacing letters in an Elvish character.= Below, though the threads were in places blurred or broken, the outline co= uld be seen of an anvil and a hammer surmounted by a crown with seven stars= . Beneath these again were two trees, each bearing crescent moons. More cle= arly than all else there shone forth in the middle of the door a single sta= r with many rays.=E2=80=9D "It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be h= eard, cannot be smelt. It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty hole= s it fills. It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter." = Enjoy! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lo= remaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec55403ea5c45cd04d739859c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for Day Six of Back to = Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community f= or full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts,= one from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To partic= ipate, choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (t= hat=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or cha= pter, and create your piece based on that.

Your piece does=C2=A0= not=C2=A0need to be based on the scene from the quote.= While this is certainly one approach, you could also write about a charact= er, location, or theme found in the scene. Remember, there=E2=80=99s no pro= mpt police, and we encourage creative use of the prompts!

=E2=80=9CYet no song or tale could contain all the grief and terror = that then befell. The Light failed; but the Darkness that followed was more= than loss of light. In that hour was made a Darkness that seemed not lack = but a thing with being of its own: for it was indeed made by malice out of = Light, and it had power to pierce the eye, and to enter heart and mind, and= strangle the very will.=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9CAt the top, as high as Gandalf could= reach, was an arch of interlacing letters in an Elvish character. Below, t= hough the threads were in places blurred or broken, the outline could be se= en of an anvil and a hammer surmounted by a crown with seven stars. Beneath= these again were two trees, each bearing crescent moons. More clearly than= all else there shone forth in the middle of the door a single star with ma= ny rays.=E2=80=9D

"It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot = be smelt.
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills.
It comes first = and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter."
<= font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<= font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Enjoy! :)

Dawn
<= div>
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/=
http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org --bcaec55403ea5c45cd04d739859c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3494 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27292 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2013 01:05:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.151) by m6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2013 01:05:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f171.google.com) (209.85.217.171) by mta5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2013 01:05:39 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id gg13so5665lbb.30 for ; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 17:05:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.46.131 with SMTP id v3mr26738089lam.57.1362618337960; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 17:05:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 17:05:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 20:05:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec55403eaffa82604d74b4d06 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Seven X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=oUJFB9gkCBKuE7aduRMjSKjuqNkIbJFPg_tEXr5ghlMStU7cJf1w X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec55403eaffa82604d74b4d06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Seven of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger= Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to pa= rticipate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one fro= m each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, c= hoose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2= =80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, = and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be base= d on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you co= uld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Re= member, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of = the prompts! =E2=80=9CAnd in those days the strength of Men was added to t= he power of the Noldor; and their hope was high; and Morgoth was straitly e= nclosed.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CIt is said that the towers of Emyn Beraid were = not built indeed by the Exiles of N=C3=BAmenor, but were raised by Gil-gala= d for Elendil, his friend; and the Seeing Stone of Emyn Beraid was set in E= lostirion, the tallest of the towers. Thither Elendil would repair, and the= nce he would gaze out over the sundering seas, when the yearning of exile w= as upon him; and it is believed that thus he would at whiles see far away e= ven the Tower of Avall=C3=B3n=C3=AB upon Eress=C3=ABa, where the Masterston= e abode, and yet abides.=E2=80=9D "Now let thy children beware! For there = shall walk a power in the forests whose wrath they will arouse at their per= il." *Happy creating! :)* Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhave= ns.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec55403eaffa82604d74b4d06 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for Day Seven of B= ack to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal comm= unity for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http= ://b2mem.livejournal.com/
=
Below are three prom= pts, one from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To pa= rticipate, choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the book= s (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or= chapter, and create your piece based on that.

Your piece does=C2= =A0not=C2=A0need to be based on the scene from the = quote. While this is certainly one approach, you could also write about a c= haracter, location, or theme found in the scene. Remember, there=E2=80=99s = no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of the prompts!

=E2= =80=9CAnd in those days the strength of Men was added to the power of the N= oldor; and their hope was high; and Morgoth was straitly enclosed.=E2=80=9D=

=E2= =80=9CIt is said that the towers of Emyn Beraid were not built indeed by th= e Exiles of N=C3=BAmenor, but were raised by Gil-galad for Elendil, his fri= end; and the Seeing Stone of Emyn Beraid was set in Elostirion, the tallest= of the towers. Thither Elendil would repair, and thence he would gaze out = over the sundering seas, when the yearning of exile was upon him; and it is= believed that thus he would at whiles see far away even the Tower of Avall= =C3=B3n=C3=AB upon Eress=C3=ABa, where the Masterstone abode, and yet abide= s.=E2=80=9D

"Now let thy children beware! For there shall walk a power in = the forests whose wrath they will arouse at their peril."

Happy creating! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net= /heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec55403eaffa82604d74b4d06-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3495 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41454 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2013 03:01:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.150) by m12.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2013 03:01:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f170.google.com) (209.85.217.170) by mta2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2013 03:01:31 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f170.google.com with SMTP id ge1so1001248lbb.29 for ; Thu, 07 Mar 2013 19:01:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.144.138 with SMTP id sm10mr476925lab.53.1362711690327; Thu, 07 Mar 2013 19:01:30 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 19:01:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 22:01:29 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f22c6f53bbab404d7610a92 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Eight X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KXZfKl10YoGrZN1UT3Rmn8shUCqKctr8gxmj1XVd67u7Wkd73u0S X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f22c6f53bbab404d7610a92 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Eight of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger= Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to pa= rticipate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one fro= m each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, c= hoose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2= =80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, = and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be base= d on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you co= uld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Re= member, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of = the prompts! =E2=80=9CBut if any will come with me, I say to them: Is sorr= ow foreboded to you? But in Aman we have seen it. In Aman we have come thro= ugh bliss to woe. The other now we will try: through sorrow to find joy; or= freedom, at the least.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CThen slowly a change came over t= he land, and the hearts of the Elf-friends were sorely troubled, and many f= ell away out of fear; and although those that remained still called themsel= ves the Faithful, their enemies named them rebels.=E2=80=9D "Not the man w= ho used to make such particularly excellent fireworks! I remember those! Ol= d Took used to have them on Midsummer's Eve. Splendid! They used to go up l= ike great lilies and snapdragons and laburnums of fire and hang in the twil= ight all evening." *Enjoy!* Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f22c6f53bbab404d7610a92 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Eight of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit our L= iveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras of A= rda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interesting, = locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), rea= d the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on that.<= br>
Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be ba= sed on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you = could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. = Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use o= f the prompts!

=E2=80=9CBut if any will come with me, I say to them: Is= sorrow foreboded to you? But in Aman we have seen it. In Aman we have come= through bliss to woe. The other now we will try: through sorrow to find jo= y; or freedom, at the least.=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9CTh= en slowly a change came over the land, and the hearts of the Elf-friends we= re sorely troubled, and many fell away out of fear; and although those that= remained still called themselves the Faithful, their enemies named them re= bels.=E2=80=9D

"Not the man who used to make= such particularly excellent fireworks! I remember those! Old Took used to = have them on Midsummer's Eve. Splendid! They used to go up like great l= ilies and snapdragons and laburnums of fire and hang in the twilight all ev= ening."

Enjoy!
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/
http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f22c6f53bbab404d7610a92-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3496 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93973 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2013 04:38:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.151) by m12.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2013 04:38:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f169.google.com) (209.85.217.169) by mta5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2013 04:38:38 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f169.google.com with SMTP id m4so1869278lbo.28 for ; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 20:38:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.13.136 with SMTP id h8mr1954599lbc.4.1362803917369; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 20:38:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 20:38:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 23:38:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0401680364be6104d7768345 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Nine X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=rwxppoBIJyO7-EZbZZKXkB1xMtdrwY1rNEgDPPAFnOh9bo9TQM7V X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d0401680364be6104d7768345 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Nine of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger = Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to par= ticipate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one from= each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, ch= oose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80= =99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, and= create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be based o= n the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you could= also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Remem= ber, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of the= prompts! =E2=80=9CDeath is their fate, the gift of Il=C3=BAvatar, which a= s Time wears even the Powers shall envy.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CInzilad=C3=BBn,= the elder, was like his mother in mind as in body; but Gimilkh=C3=A2d, the= younger, went with his father, unless he were yet prouder and more wilful.= To him Ar-Gimilz=C3=B4r would have yielded the sceptre rather than to the = elder son, if the laws had allowed.=E2=80=9D "He was heedless and set no g= uard, deeming that all his foes were overthrown. There well nigh all his pe= ople were slain, and among them were his three elder sons, Elendur, Aratan,= and Ciryon." *Happy writing! :)* Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://th= emidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0401680364be6104d7768345 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Nine of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit our Li= veJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

=
Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras of Ar= da=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interesting, l= ocate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read= the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on that.
Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be bas= ed on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you c= ould also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. R= emember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of= the prompts!

= =E2=80=9CDeath is their fate, the gift of Il=C3=BAv= atar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy.=E2=80=9D
=

= =E2=80=9CInzilad=C3=BBn, the elder, was like his mother in mind as in body;= but Gimilkh=C3=A2d, the younger, went with his father, unless he were yet = prouder and more wilful. To him Ar-Gimilz=C3=B4r would have yielded the sce= ptre rather than to the elder son, if the laws had allowed.=E2=80=9D=

"He was heedless and set no guard, deeming that all his foes we= re overthrown. There well nigh all his people were slain, and among them we= re his three elder sons, Elendur, Aratan, and Ciryon."

Happy writing! :)

Dawn
=

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_l= oremaster/
http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d0401680364be6104d7768345-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3497 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84772 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2013 03:40:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.135) by m12.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2013 03:40:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f171.google.com) (209.85.217.171) by mta1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2013 03:40:34 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id gg13so2315480lbb.30 for ; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 19:40:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.136.20 with SMTP id pw20mr6362562lab.16.1362886833714; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 19:40:33 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 19:40:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 22:40:33 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d042f921097bd7804d789d155 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013 Day Ten: Wildcard Day X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MLMO93yTh4vCQxnO6iLBbpR174iNbuZy1StPg99f_8BII11DSa1I X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d042f921097bd7804d789d155 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Athelas *they named it, and it grows now sparsely and only near places wher= e they dwelt or camped of old; and it is not known in the North, except to = some of those who wander in the Wild. It has great virtues =E2=80=A6* Thro= ughout the month, we will offer weekly wildcard days, days when there are n= o new prompts but instead a simple, Tolkien-related task, for those who wis= h to participate. We hope wildcard days will give you a chance to refresh y= our muses, read, catch up on your WiPs, and breathe! :) Our second wildcar= d day task: *Stop and smell the athelas.* All of us came here from more or= less the same place. We picked up a book or maybe went to see a movie. We = found ourselves in a new world, from which we have not yet been able to ful= ly return. Today, we stop and remember what brought us here. Maybe there w= as a chapter, a passage, a scene, a character--something that grabbed your = hand or your heart and has never let go. For today=E2=80=99s wildcard task,= choose your favorite chapter from Tolkien and reread it. *Still it smells= sweet when bruised, does it not? If sweet is the right word: wholesome, ma= ybe, is nearer.* If you wish to participate in today=E2=80=99s wildcard da= y, you don=E2=80=99t have to do anything special besides rereading your fav= orite chapter. Of course, if you want to say more about what you chose or h= ow you came to love Tolkien, do feel free to comment here: http://b2mem.li= vejournal.com/213008.html or make a post to the B2MeM community. Happy re= ading! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lo= remaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d042f921097bd7804d789d155 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Athelas=C2=A0they named it, and it grows now sparsely and only near place= s where they dwelt or camped of old; and it is not known in the North, exce= pt to some of those who wander in the Wild. It has great virtues =E2=80=A6<= /em>

Throughout the month, we will offer weekl= y wildcard days, days when there are no new prompts but instead a simple, T= olkien-related task, for those who wish to participate. We hope wildcard da= ys will give you a chance to refresh your muses, read, catch up on your WiP= s, and breathe! :)

Our second wildcard = day task:=C2=A0Stop and smell = the athelas.

All of us came here from= more or less the same place. We picked up a book or maybe went to see a mo= vie. We found ourselves in a new world, from which we have not yet been abl= e to fully return.

Today, we stop and r= emember what brought us here. Maybe there was a chapter, a passage, a scene= , a character--something that grabbed your hand or your heart and has never= let go. For today=E2=80=99s wildcard task, choose your favorite chapter fr= om Tolkien and reread it.

Still it smells= sweet when bruised, does it not? If sweet is the right word: wholesome, ma= ybe, is nearer.

If you wish to participat= e in today=E2=80=99s wildcard day, you don=E2=80=99t have to do anything sp= ecial besides rereading your favorite chapter. Of course, if you want to sa= y more about what you chose or how you came to love Tolkien, do feel free t= o comment here:

=

or make a post to the B2MeM community.
Happy reading! :)
=
--f46d042f921097bd7804d789d155-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3498 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83570 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2013 02:37:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.151) by m9.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2013 02:37:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f180.google.com) (209.85.217.180) by mta5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2013 02:37:55 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f180.google.com with SMTP id q12so2715964lbc.39 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:37:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.147.36 with SMTP id th4mr8785255lab.19.1362969473981; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:37:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 22:37:53 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f22c38156250c04d79d0f78 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Eleven X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wQVfEX8vUyPoTHuHACDpzLwz8opUTvILO_BR1ZvgT5jbfCzhIZIj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f22c38156250c04d79d0f78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Eleven of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenge= r Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to p= articipate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one fr= om each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, = choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2= =80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, = and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be base= d on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you co= uld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Re= member, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of = the prompts! =E2=80=9CThe love of L=C3=BAthien had fallen upon him in the = first hour of their meeting; and he grieved at her captivity. Therefore he = came often to her chamber; and at night he lay before her door, for he felt= that evil had come to Nargothrond.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CFor in the days of t= he sojourn of Sauron in that land the hearts of well nigh all its people ha= d been turned towards darkness. Therefore many of those who sailed east in = that time and made fortresses and dwellings upon the coasts were already be= nt to his will, and they served him still gladly in Middle-earth. But becau= se of the power of Gil-galad these renegades, lords both mighty and evil, f= or the most part took up their abodes in the southlands far away; yet two t= here were, Herumor and Fuinur, who rose to power among the Haradrim, a grea= t and cruel people that dwelt in the wide lands south of Mordor beyond the = mouths of Anduin.=E2=80=9D "The world is indeed full of peril, and in it t= here are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though= in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.= " *May the muses be good to you! :)* * * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund htt= p://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org --e89a8f22c38156250c04d79d0f78 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Eleven of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit our = LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras of = Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interesting,= locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), re= ad the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on that.=

Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be b= ased on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you= could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene.= Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use = of the prompts!

=E2=80=9CThe love of L=C3=BAthien had fallen upon him i= n the first hour of their meeting; and he grieved at her captivity. Therefo= re he came often to her chamber; and at night he lay before her door, for h= e felt that evil had come to Nargothrond.=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9CFor in the days of the sojourn of Sauron in that land the hearts= of well nigh all its people had been turned towards darkness. Therefore ma= ny of those who sailed east in that time and made fortresses and dwellings = upon the coasts were already bent to his will, and they served him still gl= adly in Middle-earth. But because of the power of Gil-galad these renegades= , lords both mighty and evil, for the most part took up their abodes in the= southlands far away; yet two there were, Herumor and Fuinur, who rose to p= ower among the Haradrim, a great and cruel people that dwelt in the wide la= nds south of Mordor beyond the mouths of Anduin.=E2=80=9D

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many = dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands = love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."
<= div>
May the muses be good to you! :)
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn = Felagund
http://= themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f22c38156250c04d79d0f78-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3499 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89349 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2013 14:01:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m12.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2013 14:01:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f44.google.com) (209.85.215.44) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2013 14:01:43 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f44.google.com with SMTP id eb20so5258110lab.17 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 07:01:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.145.8 with SMTP id sq8mr994584lbb.55.1363096903115; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 07:01:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 07:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:01:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Twelve X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ofQFiVtfPtQOgBdJfRvx3p9u0Tldvl0t96CI1KQOrSC0Ers9mxp5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Here are the prompts for Day Twelve of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger= Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to pa= rticipate: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one from= each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, ch= oose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80= =99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, and= create your piece based on that. Your piece does not need to be based on = the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you could a= lso write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Remembe= r, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of the p= rompts! =E2=80=9CFor it seemed to her a thing strange and crooked in him, = as indeed the Eldar ever since have deemed it: an evil fruit of the Kinslay= ing, whereby the shadow of the curse of Mandos fell upon the last hope of t= he Noldor.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CHe changed the fashion of the world; and a gr= eat chasm opened in the sea between N=C3=BAmenor and the Deathless Lands, a= nd the waters flowed down into it, and the noise and smoke of the cataracts= went up to heaven, and the world was shaken. And all the fleets of the N= =C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans were drawn down into the abyss, and they were drowned = and swallowed up for ever.=E2=80=9D "Then the prince went from his horse, = and knelt by the bier in honour of the king and his great onset; and he wep= t. And rising he looked then on =C3=89owyn and was amazed. 'Surely, here is= a woman?' he said. 'Have even the women of the Rohirrim come to war in our= need?' 'Nay! One only,' they answered. 'The Lady =C3=89owyn is she, sister= of =C3=89omer; and we knew naught of her riding until this hour, and great= ly we rue it.' Then the prince seeing her beauty, though her face was pale= and cold, touched her hand as he bent to look more closely on her." Happy= creating! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/hereti= c_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3500 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1833 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2013 01:10:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.168) by m5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2013 01:10:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f175.google.com) (209.85.217.175) by mta6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2013 01:10:51 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f175.google.com with SMTP id n3so489206lbo.20 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:10:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.46.131 with SMTP id v3mr15768251lam.57.1363137050781; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:10:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 21:10:50 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec55403eab12fc804d7c413da X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Thirteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=5TKfgRVTSZBIABwgZgc4iH4GVK_06RjYvvIHmAtYlK-dqDEJafV- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec55403eab12fc804d7c413da Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Eleven of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenge= r Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to p= articipate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one fr= om each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, = choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2= =80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, = and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be base= d on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you co= uld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Re= member, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of = the prompts! =E2=80=9CFor the less even as for the greater there is some d= eed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall = rest. It may be that I can unlock my jewels, but never again shall I make t= heir like; and if I must break them, I shall break my heart, and I shall be= slain; first of all the Eldar in Aman.=E2=80=9D "In Eregion the craftsmen= of the Gwaith-i-M=C3=ADrdain, the People of the Jewel-smiths, surpassed in= cunning all that have ever wrought, save only F=C3=ABanor himself; and ind= eed greatest in skill among them was Celebrimbor, son of Curufin, who was e= stranged from his father and remained in Nargothrond when Celegorm and Curu= fin were driven forth, as is told in the Quenta Silmarillion.=E2=80=9D "He= y dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo! Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the wi= llow! Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!" *Happy writing/drawing/creating= ! :)* * * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lor= emaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec55403eab12fc804d7c413da Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Eleven of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit our = LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras of = Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interesting,= locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), re= ad the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on that.=

Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be b= ased on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you= could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene.= Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use = of the prompts!

=E2=80=9CFor the less even as for the greater there is = some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart = shall rest. It may be that I can unlock my jewels, but never again shall I = make their like; and if I must break them, I shall break my heart, and I sh= all be slain; first of all the Eldar in Aman.=E2=80=9D

"In Eregion the craftsmen of the Gwaith-i-M=C3=ADrdain, the Peop= le of the Jewel-smiths, surpassed in cunning all that have ever wrought, sa= ve only F=C3=ABanor himself; and indeed greatest in skill among them was Ce= lebrimbor, son of Curufin, who was estranged from his father and remained i= n Nargothrond when Celegorm and Curufin were driven forth, as is told in th= e Quenta Silmarillion.=E2=80=9D

"Hey dol! me= rry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the w= illow!
Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!"

Happy writing/drawing/creating! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagun= d
http://themidh= avens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec55403eab12fc804d7c413da-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3501 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76195 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2013 03:14:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2013 03:14:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f50.google.com) (209.85.215.50) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2013 03:14:49 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f50.google.com with SMTP id ec20so1933092lab.37 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:14:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.9.104 with SMTP id y8mr432686lba.132.1363230888359; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:14:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:14:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4efe2ee6d9019604d7d9ec8e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Fourteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=W9l22uNGpBTA6icyeuxDcJAQLsIu3FHuc9LxAIAm9U0BwATaF1_Z X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e0cb4efe2ee6d9019604d7d9ec8e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Fourteen of Back to Middle-earth Month Scaven= ger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to= participate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one = from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate= , choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that= =E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapte= r, and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be b= ased on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you= could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene.= Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use = of the prompts! "Thus at last the Teleri were overcome, and a great part o= f their mariners that dwelt in Alqualond=C3=AB were wickedly slain." "Then= Tar-Ancalimon, son of Atanamir, became King, and he was of like mind; and = in his day the people of N=C3=BAmenor became divided. On the one hand was t= he greater party, and they were called the King's Men, and they grew proud = and were estranged from the Eldar and the Valar." "For the high men of Gon= dor already looked askance at the Northmen among them; and it was a thing u= nheard of before that the heir of the crown, or any son of the King, should= wed one of lesser and alien race." *Have fun! :)* * * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Daw= n Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarill= ionwritersguild.org --e0cb4efe2ee6d9019604d7d9ec8e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Fourteen of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit ou= r LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras o= f Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interestin= g, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), = read the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on tha= t.

Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be= based on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, y= ou could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scen= e. Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative us= e of the prompts!

"Thus at last the Teleri were overcome, and a gr= eat part of their mariners that dwelt in Alqualond=C3=AB were wickedly slai= n."

"Then Tar-Ancalimon, son of Atanamir= , became King, and he was of like mind; and in his day the people of N=C3= =BAmenor became divided. On the one hand was the greater party, and they we= re called the King's Men, and they grew proud and were estranged from t= he Eldar and the Valar."

"For the high = men of Gondor already looked askance at the Northmen among them; and it was= a thing unheard of before that the heir of the crown, or any son of the Ki= ng, should wed one of lesser and alien race."

Have fun! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/<= /a>
http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org --e0cb4efe2ee6d9019604d7d9ec8e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3502 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4797 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2013 01:56:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m9.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2013 01:56:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f178.google.com) (209.85.217.178) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2013 01:56:49 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id n1so2409612lba.37 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:56:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.106.5 with SMTP id gq5mr4216332lab.5.1363312608434; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:56:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:56:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04083f2dbe60ee04d7ecf34b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Fifteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MxRr0QF9f1sDnxtaXM4yoYDBOWTIumk443wPtyYLZBuJyun_TU7Q X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d04083f2dbe60ee04d7ecf34b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Fifteen of Back to Middle-earth Month Scaveng= er Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to = participate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one f= rom each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate,= choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2= =80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, = and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be base= d on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you co= uld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Re= member, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of = the prompts! "Her voice came dropping down like rain into pools, profound = and dark. She cast her cloak before his eyes, and set upon him a dream, dar= k as the outer Void where once he walked alone." "Therefore they made that= League which is called the Last Alliance, and they marched east into Middl= e-earth gathering a great host of Elves and Men; and they halted for a whil= e at Imladris. It is said that the host that was there assembled was fairer= and more splendid in arms than any that has since been seen in Middle-eart= h, and none greater has been mustered since the host of the Valar went agai= nst Thangorodrim." "It seemed a town of Men still throve there, built out = on bridges far into the water as a protection against enemies of all sorts,= and especially against the dragon of the Mountain." *May the muses smile = upon you! :)* * * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/her= etic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d04083f2dbe60ee04d7ecf34b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Fifteen of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit our= LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras of= Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interesting= , locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), r= ead the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on that= .

Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be = based on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, yo= u could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene= . Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use= of the prompts!

"Her voice came dropping down like rain into pool= s, profound and dark. She cast her cloak before his eyes, and set upon him = a dream, dark as the outer Void where once he walked alone."

"Therefore they made that League which is called the L= ast Alliance, and they marched east into Middle-earth gathering a great hos= t of Elves and Men; and they halted for a while at Imladris. It is said tha= t the host that was there assembled was fairer and more splendid in arms th= an any that has since been seen in Middle-earth, and none greater has been = mustered since the host of the Valar went against Thangorodrim."
=

"It seemed a town of Men still throve there, buil= t out on bridges far into the water as a protection against enemies of all = sorts, and especially against the dragon of the Mountain."
=
May the muses smile upon you! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Fela= gund
http://them= idhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d04083f2dbe60ee04d7ecf34b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3503 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19514 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2013 03:00:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.168) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2013 03:00:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f180.google.com) (209.85.217.180) by mta6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2013 03:00:16 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f180.google.com with SMTP id q12so3309795lbc.11 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:00:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.46.231 with SMTP id y7mr3447711lbm.128.1363402815712; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:00:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 23:00:15 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec554d232843c8f04d801f44c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Sixteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=p3YqSClc5QklaJj_2iQ7z2m17Av_G6AOehyA_xZVExbrHcTBSHzX X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec554d232843c8f04d801f44c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Sixteen of Back to Middle-earth Month Scaveng= er Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to = participate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one f= rom each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate,= choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2= =80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, = and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be base= d on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you co= uld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Re= member, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of = the prompts! "If it be truly the Silmaril which we saw cast into the sea t= hat rises again by the power of the Valar, then let us be glad; for its glo= ry is seen now by many, and is yet secure from all evil." "But in the mids= t of the land was a mountain tall and steep, and it was named the Meneltarm= a, the Pillar of Heaven, and upon it was a high place that was hallowed to = Eru Il=C3=BAvatar, and it was open and unroofed, and no other temple or fan= e was there in the land of the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans." "`What?' cried Giml= i, startled out of his silence. 'A corslet of Moria-silver? That was a king= ly gift!' 'Yes,' said Gandalf. 'I never told him, but its worth was greater= than the value of the whole Shire and everything in it.' Frodo said nothin= g, but he put his hand under his tunic and touched the rings of his mail-sh= irt. He felt staggered to think that he had been walking about with the pri= ce of the Shire under his jacket. Had Bilbo known? He felt no doubt that Bi= lbo knew quite well. It was indeed a kingly gift." *Hope you enjoy today's= prompts! :)* * * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/her= etic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec554d232843c8f04d801f44c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Sixteen of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit our= LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras of= Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interesting= , locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), r= ead the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on that= .

not= =C2=A0need to be based on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly= one approach, you could also write about a character, location, or theme f= ound in the scene. Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encou= rage creative use of the prompts!

"If= it be truly the Silmaril which we saw cast into the sea that rises again b= y the power of the Valar, then let us be glad; for its glory is seen now by= many, and is yet secure from all evil."

&q= uot;But in the midst of the land was a mountain tall and steep, and it was = named the Meneltarma, the Pillar of Heaven, and upon it was a high place th= at was hallowed to Eru Il=C3=BAvatar, and it was open and unroofed, and no = other temple or fane was there in the land of the N=C3=BAmen=C3=B3reans.&qu= ot;

"`What?' cried Gimli, startled out = of his silence. 'A corslet of Moria-silver? That was a kingly gift!'= ;
'Yes,' said Gandalf. 'I never told him, but its wor= th was greater than the value of the whole Shire and everything in it.'=
Frodo said nothing, but he put his hand under his tunic and to= uched the rings of his mail-shirt. He felt staggered to think that he had b= een walking about with the price of the Shire under his jacket. Had Bilbo k= nown? He felt no doubt that Bilbo knew quite well. It was indeed a kingly g= ift."

Hope you enjoy today's prompts!= :)

Dawn

--
~o= Oo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
<= a href=3D"http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org" target=3D"_blank">http:/= /www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec554d232843c8f04d801f44c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3504 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58775 invoked by uid 102); 17 Mar 2013 03:11:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mta2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.150) by m2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2013 03:11:36 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 32328 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2013 03:11:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f51.google.com) (209.85.215.51) by mta2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2013 03:11:35 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f51.google.com with SMTP id fo13so5020180lab.10 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 20:11:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.155.166 with SMTP id vx6mr4560175lbb.59.1363489894658; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 20:11:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 20:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 23:11:34 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0112c79ad3770a04d8163a5d X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Wildcard Day X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=QVVK4CXTKfCKLtViXL9iAaQGlL_eR11GyOQ-bi8WmyGGSWof6R29 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --089e0112c79ad3770a04d8163a5d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, There is no writing prompt for today's B2MeM challenge. It is our= third wildcard day! If you're new to B2MeM and would like to jump in, it i= s never too late to get involved. Please visit our community to learn more:= http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ *Today's wildcard task:* * * *The Ruling Ri= ng passed out of the knowledge even of the Wise in that age; yet it was not= unmade. For Isildur would not surrender it to Elrond and C=C3=ADrdan who s= tood by. They counselled him to cast it into the fire of Orodruin nigh at h= and, in which it had been forged, so that it should perish, and the power o= f Sauron be for ever diminished, and he should remain only as a shadow of m= alice in the wilderness.* Chances are you've had a moment like this: gone = the distance, gotten to the very edge ... and failed to finish what you sta= rted. Throughout the month, we will offer weekly wildcard days, days when = there are no new prompts but instead a simple, Tolkien-related task, for th= ose who wish to participate. We hope wildcard days will give you a chance t= o refresh your muses, read, catch up on your WiPs, and breathe! :) Our thi= rd wildcard day task: *Finish something.* While completing that dusty WiP = or finally commenting on that story you've read five times and absolutely l= ove hardly have the gravity of finishing off the One Ring inside Mount Doom= , we all know we have our minor Isildur moments ("Umm ... weregild. Yes, ri= ght, weregild!") when we have something we know we *should* and, maybe, dee= p down inside *want* to do--and yet don't. Participants today should finis= h something related to their fannish participation. This can be as ambitiou= s as finally completing that long-enduring WiP or as simple as leaving a co= mment on a story you've always meant to express your admiration for, finish= ing that final copyedit, getting a piece posted to your journal or archive,= or reading that story on your wish list that you never seem to have time f= or. As always, you decide what counts for this challenge, and we encourage = you to be creative. If you want to share what you've done for today's chall= enge, feel free to leave a comment on this post: http://b2mem.livejournal.c= om/222719.html. So chase off those spoon-thieving relatives, find a cozy p= lace to settle in, and use today to finish something! *'Well, I've made up= my mind, anyway. I want to see mountains again, Gandalf, mountains, and th= en find somewhere where I can rest. In peace and quiet, without a lot of re= latives prying around, and a string of confounded visitors hanging on the b= ell. I might find somewhere where I can finish my book.* * * Best wishes, = Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ h= ttp://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e0112c79ad3770a04d8163a5d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

There is no writing prompt for today's B2MeM challenge. It = is our third wildcard day! If you're new to B2MeM and would like to jum= p in, it is never too late to get involved. Please visit our community to l= earn more:=C2=A0http= ://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Today's wildcard task:
=

The Ruling Ring passed out of the knowledge even of the Wise in that = age; yet it was not unmade. For Isildur would not surrender it to Elrond an= d C=C3=ADrdan who stood by. They counselled him to cast it into the fire of= Orodruin nigh at hand, in which it had been forged, so that it should peri= sh, and the power of Sauron be for ever diminished, and he should remain on= ly as a shadow of malice in the wilderness.

Chances are you've ha= d a moment like this: gone the distance, gotten to the very edge ... and fa= iled to finish what you started.
<= br style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px;line-height:21px;ba= ckground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Throug= hout the month, we will offer weekly wildcard days, days when there are no = new prompts but instead a simple, Tolkien-related task, for those who wish = to participate. We hope wildcard days will give you a chance to refresh you= r muses, read, catch up on your WiPs, and breathe! :)

Our third wildcard day task:=C2=A0Finish something.

= While completing that dusty WiP or finally commenting on that story you'= ;ve read five times and absolutely love hardly have the gravity of finishin= g off the One Ring inside Mount Doom, we all know we have our minor Isildur= moments ("Umm ... weregild. Yes, right, weregild!") when we have= something we know we=C2=A0should<= /em>=C2=A0and, maybe, deep down inside= =C2=A0want=C2=A0to do--and yet don't.

Participants today should finish something related to their fanni= sh participation. This can be as ambitious as finally completing that long-= enduring WiP or as simple as leaving a comment on a story you've always= meant to express your admiration for, finishing that final copyedit, getti= ng a piece posted to your journal or archive, or reading that story on your= wish list that you never seem to have time for. As always, you decide what= counts for this challenge, and we encourage you to be creative. If you wan= t to share what you've done for today's challenge, feel free to lea= ve a comment on this post:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/222719.html.=

So chase off those spoon-thieving rela= tives, find a cozy place to settle in, and use today to finish something!

<= em style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px;line-height:21px;ba= ckground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">'Well, I've made up my mind, anywa= y. I want to see mountains again, Gandalf, mountains, and then find somewhe= re where I can rest. In peace and quiet, without a lot of relatives prying = around, and a string of confounded visitors hanging on the bell. I might fi= nd somewhere where I can finish my book.

=
Best wishes,
--089e0112c79ad3770a04d8163a5d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3505 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59628 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2013 21:10:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m12.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2013 21:10:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f54.google.com) (209.85.215.54) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2013 21:10:49 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id gw10so5427500lab.13 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:10:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.136.20 with SMTP id pw20mr12282920lab.16.1363554648146; Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:10:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 17:10:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d042f92106f4edf04d8254ee1 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: A Gentle Reminder about the "Preview" Bug on the SWG Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=3o0i8OB2Bu7nFD_QfmPwcY-_kg6-uTE8rq3Qz_0AiSfrcbT-lEdu X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d042f92106f4edf04d8254ee1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, This month, I have received multiple reports about the long-standing "preview" bug on the SWG archive. First of all, I do not *ever *mind receiving bug reports. I would rather receive one hundred reports of the same problem than be unaware of the problem. However, this particular bug seems to cause a lot of unnecessary angst for authors who encounter it, so I wanted to post specifically about it in hopes that I could defuse some of that angst in the future. When adding a story to the SWG archive, at present, if you click the Preview button, the Preview screen will show that the story has been assigned to a series. *The story is not actually assigned to a series.* Adding a story and placing that story in a series are completely separate steps, and it is impossible, from the Add Story screen, to place a story in a series. If you click Add, the story will be posted to the archive with no series assignment. This bug has been around for years. It is essentially harmless but extremely annoying, as it prevents people from posting or causes people to make multiple attempts to add a story, thinking they are doing something wrong. Whenever you encounter a problem on the archive, the best place to look first is the main archive page: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/index.php. Here, we maintain a list of any current bugs of which we are aware and the steps to take to work around that bug until we can fix it. If you don't see your problem there, please please *please* email me or my comods (moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org) so that we can try to solve the problem. The developer of our software is working on a new version of the software. It is currently in beta phase, which I hope means will see an update soon. Because she's been working on a complete do-over, she hasn't made any updates to the current software for more than two years now. As a result, the preview bug has been plaguing us for at least that long. As always, if you have any questions or ever encounter problems using the archive, please let me or my comods know. We're happy to help. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d042f92106f4edf04d8254ee1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

This month, I have received multiple reports ab= out the long-standing "preview" bug on the SWG archive. First of = all, I do not ever mind receiving bug reports. I would rather receiv= e one hundred reports of the same problem than be unaware of the problem. H= owever, this particular bug seems to cause a lot of unnecessary angst for a= uthors who encounter it, so I wanted to post specifically about it in hopes= that I could defuse some of that angst in the future.

When adding a story to the SWG archive, at present, if you click the= Preview button, the Preview screen will show that the story has been assig= ned to a series. The story is not actually assigned to a series.=C2= =A0Adding a story and placing that story in a series are completely separat= e steps, and it is impossible, from the Add Story screen, to place a story = in a series. If you click Add, the story will be posted to the archive with= no series assignment.

This bug has been around = for years. It is essentially harmless but extremely annoying, as it prevent= s people from posting or causes people to make multiple attempts to add a s= tory, thinking they are doing something wrong.

W= henever you encounter a problem on the archive, the best place to look firs= t is the main archive page:=C2=A0http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org/archive/home/index.php. Here, we maintain a list of any= current bugs of which we are aware and the steps to take to work around th= at bug until we can fix it. If you don't see your problem there, please= please please email me or my comods (moderator AT silmarillionwrite= rsguild DOT org) so that we can try to solve the problem.

<= /div>
The developer of our software is working on a new version of the = software. It is currently in beta phase, which I hope means will see an upd= ate soon. Because she's been working on a complete do-over, she hasn= 9;t made any updates to the current software for more than two years now. A= s a result, the preview bug has been plaguing us for at least that long.

As always, if you have any questions or ever encoun= ter problems using the archive, please let me or my comods know. We're = happy to help.

Dawn
--f46d042f92106f4edf04d8254ee1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3506 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47873 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2013 23:51:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.168) by m8.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2013 23:51:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f173.google.com) (209.85.217.173) by mta6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2013 23:51:02 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f173.google.com with SMTP id gf7so4219282lbb.32 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2013 16:51:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.144.105 with SMTP id sl9mr12616131lab.4.1363564261620; Sun, 17 Mar 2013 16:51:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Mar 2013 16:51:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 19:51:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f22c5bd71438c04d8278b8b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Eighteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=VB_Y1Czk-RKxLV4yBqdKtAoyvvvmDtyIZnYs5coy3pOP3MNr-NUa X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e89a8f22c5bd71438c04d8278b8b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Eighteen of Back to Middle-earth Month Scaven= ger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to= participate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one = from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate= , choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that= =E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapte= r, and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be b= ased on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you= could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene.= Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use = of the prompts! "For the Naugrim withstood fire more hardily than either E= lves or Men, and it was their custom moreover to wear great masks in battle= hideous to look upon; and those stood them in good stead against the drago= ns." "Therefore they grew wise and glorious, and in all things more like t= o the Firstborn than any other of the kindreds of Men; and they were tall, = taller than the tallest of the sons of Middle-earth; and the light of their= eyes was like the bright stars." "'They come from Mordor,' said Strider i= n a low voice. 'From Mordor, Barliman, if that means anything to you.'" *E= njoy! :)* * * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic= _loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f22c5bd71438c04d8278b8b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Eighteen of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit ou= r LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras o= f Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interestin= g, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), = read the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on tha= t.

Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be based= on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you cou= ld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Rem= ember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of t= he prompts!

"For the Naugrim withstood fire more hardi= ly than either Elves or Men, and it was their custom moreover to wear great= masks in battle hideous to look upon; and those stood them in good stead a= gainst the dragons."

"Therefore they grew wise and = glorious, and in all things more like to the Firstborn than any other of th= e kindreds of Men; and they were tall, taller than the tallest of the sons = of Middle-earth; and the light of their eyes was like the bright stars.&quo= t;

"'They come from Mordor,' said Strider in a l= ow voice. 'From Mordor, Barliman, if that means anything to you.'&q= uot;

Enjoy! :)

Dawn
<= /div>

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaste= r/
http://www.s= ilmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8f22c5bd71438c04d8278b8b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3507 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74196 invoked by uid 102); 19 Mar 2013 01:53:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mta1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.135) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2013 01:53:52 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 26523 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2013 01:53:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ia0-f169.google.com) (209.85.210.169) by mta1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2013 01:53:52 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ia0-f169.google.com with SMTP id j5so5961300iaf.0 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 18:53:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.191.199 with SMTP id ha7mr576196igc.70.1363658032281; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 18:53:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.42.67.11 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 18:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:53:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae93404d59bffbf04d83d6075 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Nineteen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=1pDC9pAwqaQ63KakpGG0yrTdSw8cyDm-Vr6S6u9OnQZqYykETg_7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --14dae93404d59bffbf04d83d6075 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Nineteen of Back to Middle-earth Month Scaven= ger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to= participate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one = from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate= , choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that= =E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapte= r, and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be b= ased on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you= could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene.= Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use = of the prompts! "F=C3=ABanor and his sons abode seldom in one place for lo= ng, but travelled far and wide upon the confines of Valinor, going even to = the borders of the Dark and the cold shores of the Outer Sea, seeking the u= nknown." "The building of the chief city of Eregion, Ost-in-Edhil, was beg= un in about the year 750 of the Second Age [the date that is given in the T= ale of Years for the founding of Eregion by the Noldor]." "He spoke then i= n a great voice the Oath of Eorl. This he said in the tongue of the =C3=89o= th=C3=A9od, which in the Common Speech is interpreted: Hear now all peoples= who bow not to the Shadow in the East, by the gift of the Lord of the Mund= burg we will come to dwell in the land that he names Calenardhon, and there= fore I vow in my own name and on behalf of the =C3=89oth=C3=A9od of the Nor= th that between us and the Great People of the West there shall be friendsh= ip for ever: their enemies shall be our enemies, their need shall be our ne= ed, and whatsoever evil, or threat, or assault may come upon them we will a= id them to the utmost end of our strength. This vow shall descend to my hei= rs, all such as may come after me in our new land, and let them keep it in = faith unbroken, lest the Shadow fall upon them and they become accursed." = *Happy writing/drawing/creating! :)* * * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http= ://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org --14dae93404d59bffbf04d83d6075 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Nineteen of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit ou= r LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras o= f Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interestin= g, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), = read the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on tha= t.

Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be based= on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you cou= ld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Rem= ember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of t= he prompts!

"F=C3=ABanor and his sons abode seldom in = one place for long, but travelled far and wide upon the confines of Valinor= , going even to the borders of the Dark and the cold shores of the Outer Se= a, seeking the unknown."

"The building of the chief= city of Eregion, Ost-in-Edhil, was begun in about the year 750 of the Seco= nd Age [the date that is given in the Tale of Years for the founding of Ere= gion by the Noldor]."

"He spoke then in a great v= oice the Oath of Eorl. This he said in the tongue of the =C3=89oth=C3=A9od,= which in the Common Speech is interpreted:
Hear now all peoples who= bow not to the Shadow in the East, by the gift of the Lord of the Mundburg= we will come to dwell in the land that he names Calenardhon, and therefore= I vow in my own name and on behalf of the =C3=89oth=C3=A9od of the North t= hat between us and the Great People of the West there shall be friendship f= or ever: their enemies shall be our enemies, their need shall be our need, = and whatsoever evil, or threat, or assault may come upon them we will aid t= hem to the utmost end of our strength. This vow shall descend to my heirs, = all such as may come after me in our new land, and let them keep it in fait= h unbroken, lest the Shadow fall upon them and they become accursed."<= /font>

Happy writing/drawing/creating! :)

http://themidhavens.n= et/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --14dae93404d59bffbf04d83d6075-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3508 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38618 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2013 00:49:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.151) by m5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2013 00:49:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f44.google.com) (209.85.215.44) by mta5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2013 00:49:00 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f44.google.com with SMTP id eb20so2133756lab.3 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:48:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.46.131 with SMTP id v3mr3727035lam.57.1363740538928; Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:48:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:48:58 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec55403ea63851f04d8509610 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Twenty X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xiz_P_SmDoUFZ5P422vEOZlfiKUhDLlbZJWVfX_NA1B2Op2CX_An X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec55403ea63851f04d8509610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Twenty of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenge= r Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to p= articipate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one fr= om each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, = choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2= =80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, = and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be base= d on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you co= uld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Re= member, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of = the prompts! "For though Eru appointed to you to die not in E=C3=A4, and n= o sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by w= eapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits shall come th= en to Mandos." "Many treasures and great heirlooms of virtue and wonder th= e Exiles had brought from N=C3=BAmenor; and of these the most renowned were= the Seven Stones and the White Tree." "There was a specially large pavili= on, so big that the tree that grew in the field was right inside it, and st= ood proudly near one end, at the head of the chief table. Lanterns were hun= g on all its branches. More promising still (to the hobbits' mind): an enor= mous open-air kitchen was erected in the north corner of the field." *Have= fun! :)* * * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic= _loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec55403ea63851f04d8509610 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Twenty of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit our = LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras of = Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interesting,= locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), re= ad the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on that.=

Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be based on = the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you could a= lso write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Remembe= r, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of the p= rompts!

"For though Eru appointed to you to die not in = E=C3=A4, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye = shall be: by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits= shall come then to Mandos."

"Many treasures and gr= eat heirlooms of virtue and wonder the Exiles had brought from N=C3=BAmenor= ; and of these the most renowned were the Seven Stones and the White Tree.&= quot;

"There was a specially large pavilion, so big that= the tree that grew in the field was right inside it, and stood proudly nea= r one end, at the head of the chief table. Lanterns were hung on all its br= anches. More promising still (to the hobbits' mind): an enormous open-a= ir kitchen was erected in the north corner of the field."
=


Dawn

=
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org --bcaec55403ea63851f04d8509610-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3509 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95882 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2013 02:17:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.151) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2013 02:17:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f46.google.com) (209.85.215.46) by mta5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2013 02:17:58 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f46.google.com with SMTP id fq12so4254057lab.33 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:17:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.36.2 with SMTP id m2mr10511675lbj.100.1363832277347; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:17:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 22:17:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d042445326cb59004d865f263 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Twenty-One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=hINxyHCb5xd4VzAxMS63hyiEONZe3KdHW85mDjoA8UHAsItjewJw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d042445326cb59004d865f263 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Twenty-One of Back to Middle-earth Month Scav= enger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how = to participate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, on= e from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participa= te, choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that= =E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapte= r, and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be b= ased on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you= could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene.= Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use = of the prompts! "The ancient tongue, common to all Elves, in the form that= it took in Valinor; brought to Middle-earth by the Noldorin exiles, but ab= andoned by them as a daily speech, especially after the edict of King Thing= ol against its use." "She was the only child of Tar-Aldarion, and the firs= t Ruling Queen of N=D1=8Amenor. She was born in the year 873, and she reign= ed for 205 years, longer than any ruler after Elros; she surrendered the sc= eptre in 1280, and died in 1285." "Now not day only shall be beloved, but = night too shall be beautiful and blessed and all fear pass away!" *Enjoy! = :)* * * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorem= aster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d042445326cb59004d865f263 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Twenty-One of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit = our LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0= http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

=
Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras= of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interest= ing, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!)= , read the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on t= hat.

Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be based= on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you cou= ld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Rem= ember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of t= he prompts!

"The ancient tongue, common to all Elves, = in the form that it took in Valinor; brought to Middle-earth by the Noldori= n exiles, but abandoned by them as a daily speech, especially after the edi= ct of King Thingol against its use."

"She was the o= nly child of Tar-Aldarion, and the first Ruling Queen of N=D1=8Amenor. She = was born in the year 873, and she reigned for 205 years, longer than any ru= ler after Elros; she surrendered the sceptre in 1280, and died in 1285.&quo= t;

"Now not day only shall be beloved, but night too sha= ll be beautiful and blessed and all fear pass away!"

<= /div>
= Enjoy! :)

Dawn

--=
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguil= d.org --f46d042445326cb59004d865f263-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3510 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85073 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2013 01:42:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2013 01:42:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f53.google.com) (209.85.215.53) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2013 01:42:30 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f53.google.com with SMTP id fr10so6289220lab.40 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 18:42:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.47.97 with SMTP id c1mr9577lan.6.1363916549649; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 18:42:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 18:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:42:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec554025a71f99c04d87991cb X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Twenty-Two X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=9cz-CFflpw9ou8IK8OKpP6OJVBqTLP3Xdm7u-8wAKppXFHscKEbv X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec554025a71f99c04d87991cb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Twenty-Two of Back to Middle-earth Month Scav= enger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how = to participate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, on= e from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participa= te, choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that= =E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapte= r, and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be b= ased on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you= could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene.= Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use = of the prompts! "Then it was that the Noldor first bethought them of lette= rs, and R=C3=BAmil of Tirion was the name of the loremaster who first achie= ved fitting signs for the recording of speech and song, some for graving up= on metal or in stone, others for drawing with brush or with pen." "From th= e first he loved the Sea, and his mind was turned to the craft of ship-buil= ding. He had little liking for the north country, and spent all the time th= at his father would grant by the shores of the sea, especially near R=D1=83= menna, where was the chief haven of N=C3=BAmenor, the greatest shipyards, a= nd the most skilled shipwrights." "His house was perfect, whether you like= d food, or sleep, or work, or story-telling, or singing, or just sitting an= d thinking best, or a pleasant mixture of them all. Evil things did not com= e into that valley." *Happy writing! :)* Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund ht= tp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersgui= ld.org --bcaec554025a71f99c04d87991cb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Twenty-Two of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit = our LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0= http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

=
Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras= of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interest= ing, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!)= , read the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on t= hat.

Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be based= on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you cou= ld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Rem= ember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of t= he prompts!

"Then it was that the Noldor first bethoug= ht them of letters, and R=C3=BAmil of Tirion was the name of the loremaster= who first achieved fitting signs for the recording of speech and song, som= e for graving upon metal or in stone, others for drawing with brush or with= pen."

"From the first he loved the Sea, and his mi= nd was turned to the craft of ship-building. He had little liking for the n= orth country, and spent all the time that his father would grant by the sho= res of the sea, especially near R=D1=83menna, where was the chief haven of = N=C3=BAmenor, the greatest shipyards, and the most skilled shipwrights.&quo= t;

"His house was perfect, whether you liked food, or sl= eep, or work, or story-telling, or singing, or just sitting and thinking be= st, or a pleasant mixture of them all. Evil things did not come into that v= alley."

Happy writing! :)

<= div>Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_= loremaster/
htt= p://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec554025a71f99c04d87991cb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3511 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47885 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2013 02:43:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.163) by m10.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2013 02:43:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f46.google.com) (209.85.215.46) by mta3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2013 02:43:52 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f46.google.com with SMTP id fq12so8304121lab.5 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:43:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.28.102 with SMTP id a6mr2168866lbh.109.1364006630944; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:43:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 22:43:50 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040168b3b579cd04d88e8a0b X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Twenty-Three X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wcUkx3SzblxTXG0yccoMRNxhiMJef-ipvJHbM_nprfDc2jvdVEqx X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --f46d040168b3b579cd04d88e8a0b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Twenty-Three of Back to Middle-earth Month Sc= avenger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on ho= w to participate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, = one from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To partici= pate, choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (th= at=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chap= ter, and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be= based on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, y= ou could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scen= e. Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative us= e of the prompts! "The Noldor also it was who first achieved the making of= gems; and the fairest of all gems were the Silmarils, and they are lost." = "Next to it lay a treasure without price, long mourned as lost for ever: t= he Elendilmir itself, the white star of Elvish crystal upon a fillet of mit= hril that had descended from Silmarien to Elendil, and had been taken by hi= m as the token of royalty in the North Kingdom." "But I don't think you ne= ed go alone. Not if you know of anyone you can trust, and who would be will= ing to go by your side - and that you would be willing to take into unknown= perils. But if you look for a companion, be careful in choosing! And be ca= reful of what you say, even to your closest friends! The enemy has many spi= es and many ways of hearing." *Happy Friday! :)* * * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn = Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillio= nwritersguild.org --f46d040168b3b579cd04d88e8a0b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Twenty-Three of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visi= t our LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major er= as of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds intere= sting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit= !), read the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on= that.

Your piece does=C2=A0<= u style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">not= =C2=A0need to be bas= ed on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you c= ould also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. R= emember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of= the prompts!

"The Noldor also it was who first achieve= d the making of gems; and the fairest of all gems were the Silmarils, and t= hey are lost."

"Next to it lay a treasure without p= rice, long mourned as lost for ever: the Elendilmir itself, the white star = of Elvish crystal upon a fillet of mithril that had descended from Silmarie= n to Elendil, and had been taken by him as the token of royalty in the Nort= h Kingdom."

"But I don't think you need go alon= e. Not if you know of anyone you can trust, and who would be willing to go = by your side - and that you would be willing to take into unknown perils. B= ut if you look for a companion, be careful in choosing! And be careful of w= hat you say, even to your closest friends! The enemy has many spies and man= y ways of hearing."

Happy Friday! :)
=

=
Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagun= d
http://themidh= avens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --f46d040168b3b579cd04d88e8a0b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3512 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7513 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2013 03:06:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.163) by m7.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2013 03:06:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f44.google.com) (209.85.215.44) by mta3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2013 03:06:10 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f44.google.com with SMTP id eb20so9534214lab.17 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 20:06:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.46.231 with SMTP id y7mr3661972lbm.128.1364094369491; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 20:06:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 20:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:06:09 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec554d23255741304d8a2f8ab X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Wildcard Day X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=YbUGGnMoLybOmBJgvnzQjEWE6pcV2kzQmgXoanhsuh83kPDxA4kw X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec554d23255741304d8a2f8ab Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, There is no writing prompt for today's B2MeM challenge. It is our= fourth wildcard day! If you're new to B2MeM and would like to jump in, it = is never too late to get involved. Please visit our community to learn more= : http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ *Today's wildcard task:* *I have crossed = many mountains and many rivers, and trodden many plains, even into the far = countries of Rh=C3=BBn and Harad where the stars are strange.* Throughout = the month, we will offer weekly wildcard days, days when there are no new p= rompts but instead a simple, Tolkien-related task, for those who wish to pa= rticipate. We hope wildcard days will give you a chance to refresh your mus= es, read, catch up on your WiPs, and breathe! :) Our fourth and penultimat= e wildcard day task: *Go where the stars are strange.* We all have our fav= orites, our stories, characters, and sources that are both comfortable and = familiar: the character whose name alone will make us click on a story, the= authors whom we read everything they write, the chapters and books most do= g-eared and worn from use. For today=E2=80=99s wildcard task, however, we c= hallenge you to wander outside this comfort zone and try something new. Yo= u might try reading a story about a character you don=E2=80=99t normally li= ke, or check out an essay or a story about a topic you know very little abo= ut. Venture outside the time period you usually read and write about, or re= ad a chapter or essay in one of Tolkien=E2=80=99s books that you=E2=80=99ve= never read before. Explore the work of a new author or artist. Learn somet= hing new, try something different, journey someplace unfamiliar--as always,= you decide what counts for this challenge, and we encourage you to be crea= tive. If you want to share what you've done for today's challenge, feel fre= e to leave a comment on this post. *Therefore when they beheld them, the m= ore did they love them, being things other than themselves, strange and fre= e, wherein they saw the mind of Il=C3=BAvatar reflected anew, and learned y= et a little more of his wisdom =E2=80=A6* * * -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http:= //themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.= org --bcaec554d23255741304d8a2f8ab Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

There is no writing prompt for today's B2MeM challenge. It is = our fourth wildcard day! If you're new to B2MeM and would like to jump = in, it is never too late to get involved. Please visit our community to lea= rn more:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Today's = wildcard task:

I have crossed many mountains and many rivers, and trodden= many plains, even into the far countries of Rh=C3=BBn and Harad where the = stars are strange.

Throughout the month, = we will offer weekly wildcard days, days when there are no new prompts but = instead a simple, Tolkien-related task, for those who wish to participate. = We hope wildcard days will give you a chance to refresh your muses, read, c= atch up on your WiPs, and breathe! :)

O= ur fourth and penultimate wildcard day task:=C2=A0Go where the stars are strange.

We all have our favorites, our stories, characters, and sour= ces that are both comfortable and familiar: the character whose name alone = will make us click on a story, the authors whom we read everything they wri= te, the chapters and books most dog-eared and worn from use. For today=E2= =80=99s wildcard task, however, we challenge you to wander outside this com= fort zone and try something new.
<= br style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px;line-height:21px;ba= ckground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">You mi= ght try reading a story about a character you don=E2=80=99t normally like, = or check out an essay or a story about a topic you know very little about. = Venture outside the time period you usually read and write about, or read a= chapter or essay in one of Tolkien=E2=80=99s books that you=E2=80=99ve nev= er read before. Explore the work of a new author or artist. Learn something= new, try something different, journey someplace unfamiliar--as always, you= decide what counts for this challenge, and we encourage you to be creative= . If you want to share what you've done for today's challenge, feel= free to leave a comment on this post.

Th= erefore when they beheld them, the more did they love them, being things ot= her than themselves, strange and free, wherein they saw the mind of Il=C3= =BAvatar reflected anew, and learned yet a little more of his wisdom =E2=80= =A6

-- ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.or= g --bcaec554d23255741304d8a2f8ab-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3513 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91504 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2013 23:26:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2013 23:26:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f52.google.com) (209.85.215.52) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2013 23:26:42 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f52.google.com with SMTP id fs12so10137367lab.25 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2013 16:26:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.47.97 with SMTP id c1mr4932408lan.6.1364167601190; Sun, 24 Mar 2013 16:26:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Sun, 24 Mar 2013 16:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 19:26:40 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec554025a487da404d8b4055c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Twenty-Five X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=w_tV0whK2t7AdBjla99a2zR7MD7uF490AtqWDQaXGVJoKnRzTOv7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec554025a487da404d8b4055c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Twenty-Five of Back to Middle-earth Month Sca= venger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how= to participate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, o= ne from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To particip= ate, choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (tha= t=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapt= er, and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be = based on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, yo= u could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene= . Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use= of the prompts! "He forgot then utterly all his people and all the purpos= es of his mind, and following the birds under the shadow of the trees he pa= ssed deep into Nan Elmoth and was lost." "And last of all the mounting wav= e, green and cold and plumed with foam, climbing over the land, took to its= bosom Tar-M=C3=ADriel the Queen, fairer than silver or ivory or pearls. To= o late she strove to ascend the steep ways of the Meneltarma to the holy pl= ace; for the waters overtook her, and her cry was lost in the roaring of th= e wind." "Up they got again; and this time the result was disastrous. The = feast that they now saw was greater and more magnificent than before; and a= t the head of a long line of feasters sat a woodland king with a crown of l= eaves upon his golden hair, very much as Bombur had described the figure in= his dream. The elvish folk were passing bowls from hand to hand and across= the fires, and some were harping and many were singing. Their gloaming hai= r was twined with flowers; green and white gems glinted on their collars an= d their belts; and their faces and their songs were filled with mirth. Loud= and clear and fair were those songs, and out stepped Thorin into their mid= st." *Happy writing! :)* * * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidha= vens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec554025a487da404d8b4055c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Twenty-Five of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit= our LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major era= s of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interes= ting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!= ), read the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on = that.

Your piece does=C2=A0not<= span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0need to be base= d on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you co= uld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Re= member, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of = the prompts!

"He forgot then utterly all his people and= all the purposes of his mind, and following the birds under the shadow of = the trees he passed deep into Nan Elmoth and was lost."
<= div>
= "And last of all the mounting wave, green and cold and plumed with foa= m, climbing over the land, took to its bosom Tar-M=C3=ADriel the Queen, fai= rer than silver or ivory or pearls. Too late she strove to ascend the steep= ways of the Meneltarma to the holy place; for the waters overtook her, and= her cry was lost in the roaring of the wind."

<= div>"Up = they got again; and this time the result was disastrous. The feast that the= y now saw was greater and more magnificent than before; and at the head of = a long line of feasters sat a woodland king with a crown of leaves upon his= golden hair, very much as Bombur had described the figure in his dream. Th= e elvish folk were passing bowls from hand to hand and across the fires, an= d some were harping and many were singing. Their gloaming hair was twined w= ith flowers; green and white gems glinted on their collars and their belts;= and their faces and their songs were filled with mirth. Loud and clear and= fair were those songs, and out stepped Thorin into their midst."

Happy writing! :)

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster= /
http://www.si= lmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec554025a487da404d8b4055c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3514 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2060 invoked by uid 102); 26 Mar 2013 01:30:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mta2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.150) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2013 01:30:42 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 3235 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2013 01:30:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f41.google.com) (209.85.215.41) by mta2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2013 01:30:42 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f41.google.com with SMTP id fo12so12612258lab.28 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 18:30:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.9.104 with SMTP id y8mr7123778lba.132.1364261441181; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 18:30:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 18:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:30:41 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4efe2ee69521f004d8c9de23 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Twenty-Six X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=E28H6pzGUQg5jNQJD--cX0r5BYnEcUJcC58Bey1b3QJKppu4Ptot X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --e0cb4efe2ee69521f004d8c9de23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Twenty-Six of Back to Middle-earth Month Scav= enger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how = to participate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, on= e from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participa= te, choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that= =E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapte= r, and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be b= ased on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you= could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene.= Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use = of the prompts! "Thus news comes to Ulmo, even in the deeps, of all the ne= eds and griefs of Arda, which otherwise would be hidden from Manw=C3=AB." = "In that time Aldarion became estranged from his father, and ceased to spea= k openly of his designs and his desires; but Almarian the Queen supported h= er son in all that he did, and Meneldur perforce let matters go as they mus= t. For the Ven=C2=ADturers grew in numbers and in the esteem of men, and th= ey called them Uinendili, the lovers of Uinen; and their Captain became the= less easy to rebuke or restrain." "Then the whole company began to run wi= th the long loping strides of Orcs. They kept no order, thrusting, jostling= , and cursing; yet their speed was very great. Each hobbit had a guard of t= hree. Pippin was far back in the line. He wondered how long he would be abl= e to go on at this pace: he had had no food since the morning. One of his g= uards had a whip. But at present the orc-liquor was still hot in him. His w= its, too, were wide-awake." *May your muses smile upon you! :)* * * Dawn = -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://= www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e0cb4efe2ee69521f004d8c9de23 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Twenty-Six of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit = our LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0= http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

=
Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras= of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interest= ing, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!)= , read the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on t= hat.

Your piece does=C2=A0not=C2=A0need to be based= on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you cou= ld also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Rem= ember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of t= he prompts!

"Thus news comes to Ulmo, even in the deep= s, of all the needs and griefs of Arda, which otherwise would be hidden fro= m Manw=C3=AB."

"In that time Aldarion became estran= ged from his father, and ceased to speak openly of his designs and his desi= res; but Almarian the Queen supported her son in all that he did, and Menel= dur perforce let matters go as they must. For the Ven=C2=ADturers grew in n= umbers and in the esteem of men, and they called them Uinendili, the lovers= of Uinen; and their Captain became the less easy to rebuke or restrain.&qu= ot;

"Then the whole company began to run with the long l= oping strides of Orcs. They kept no order, thrusting, jostling, and cursing= ; yet their speed was very great. Each hobbit had a guard of three. Pippin = was far back in the line. He wondered how long he would be able to go on at= this pace: he had had no food since the morning. One of his guards had a w= hip. But at present the orc-liquor was still hot in him. His wits, too, wer= e wide-awake."

May your muses smile upon you! :)<= /font>

Dawn

--
~oOo~
= Dawn Felagund
ht= tp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e0cb4efe2ee69521f004d8c9de23-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3515 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73600 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2013 01:25:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.163) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2013 01:25:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f51.google.com) (209.85.215.51) by mta3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2013 01:25:31 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f51.google.com with SMTP id fo13so14819941lab.38 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 18:25:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.142.134 with SMTP id rw6mr9180418lbb.4.1364347530513; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 18:25:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 18:25:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 21:25:30 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01182492e8149e04d8dde9c9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Twenty-Seven X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=lhrxSD7DsUYLyrWic5mPnQhhlX7Mx_7iEweqJ6KGgFisQa0s1gIC X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --089e01182492e8149e04d8dde9c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Here are the prompts for Day Twenty-Seven of Back to Middle-earth Month Sc= avenger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on ho= w to participate: *http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, = one from each of the three major eras of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To partici= pate, choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (th= at=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chap= ter, and create your piece based on that. Your piece does *not* need to be= based on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, y= ou could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scen= e. Remember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative us= e of the prompts! "But the Great Sea is terrible, Tuor son of Huor, and it= hates the Noldor, for it works the Doom of the Valar. Worse things it hold= s than to sink into the abyss and so perish: loathing, and loneliness and m= adness." "He was born in the year 61 of the Second Age and died in 471. He= was called N=C3=B3limon for his chief love was for ancient lore, which he = gathered from Elves and Men. Upon the departure of Elros, being then 381 ye= ars of age, he did not ascend the throne, but gave the sceptre to his son. = He is nonetheless accounted the second of the Kings, and is deemed to have = reigned one year. It remained the custom thereafter until the days." "Ther= e was Gildor and many fair Elven folk; and there to Sam's wonder rode Elron= d and Galadriel. Elrond wore a mantle of grey and had a star upon his foreh= ead, and a silver harp was in his hand, and upon his finger was a ring of g= old with a great blue stone, Vilya, mightiest of the Three." *Enjoy! :)* *= * Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster= / http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e01182492e8149e04d8dde9c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the prompts for= Day Twenty-Seven of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visi= t our LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate:=C2=A0http://b2mem.livejournal.com/

Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major er= as of Arda=E2=80=99s history. To participate, choose one that sounds intere= sting, locate the quote in the books (that=E2=80=99s the scavenger hunt bit= !), read the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on= that.

Your piece does=C2=A0<= u style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">not= =C2=A0need to be bas= ed on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you c= ould also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. R= emember, there=E2=80=99s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of= the prompts!

"But the Great Sea is terrible, Tuor son = of Huor, and it hates the Noldor, for it works the Doom of the Valar. Worse= things it holds than to sink into the abyss and so perish: loathing, and l= oneliness and madness."

"He was born in the year 61= of the Second Age and died in 471. He was called N=C3=B3limon for his chie= f love was for ancient lore, which he gathered from Elves and Men. Upon the= departure of Elros, being then 381 years of age, he did not ascend the thr= one, but gave the sceptre to his son. He is nonetheless accounted the secon= d of the Kings, and is deemed to have reigned one year. It remained the cus= tom thereafter until the days."

"There was Gildor a= nd many fair Elven folk; and there to Sam's wonder rode Elrond and Gala= driel. Elrond wore a mantle of grey and had a star upon his forehead, and a= silver harp was in his hand, and upon his finger was a ring of gold with a= great blue stone, Vilya, mightiest of the Three."
<= font color=3D"#222222" face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
En= joy! :)

Dawn

-- =
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild= .org --089e01182492e8149e04d8dde9c9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3516 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53876 invoked by uid 102); 29 Mar 2013 23:09:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mta2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.150) by m7.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2013 23:09:24 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 15103 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2013 23:09:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wi0-f171.google.com) (209.85.212.171) by mta2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2013 23:09:24 -0000 X-Received: by mail-wi0-f171.google.com with SMTP id hn17so258954wib.10 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:09:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.85.103 with SMTP id g7mr463327wiz.23.1364598564111; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:09:24 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from [10.0.0.5] (D4CC9DFD.cm-2.dynamic.ziggo.nl. [212.204.157.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h10sm749170wic.8.2013.03.29.16.09.23 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51561EDC.70807@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 00:08:12 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Thirty X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=TS-zhxJRLB-pwvMfgb_zZtSpKPhwFE439J_6oSMRfdDEK-Pp_wmuAwk X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Here are the prompts for Day Thirty of Back to Middle-earth Month Scavenger Hunt. Please visit our LiveJournal community for full details on how to participate: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/ Below are three prompts, one from each of the three major eras of Arda�s history. To participate, choose one that sounds interesting, locate the quote in the books (that�s the scavenger hunt bit!), read the surrounding passage or chapter, and create your piece based on that. Your piece does not need to be based on the scene from the quote. While this is certainly one approach, you could also write about a character, location, or theme found in the scene. Remember, there�s no prompt police, and we encourage creative use of the prompts! "Now Thingol had in Menegroth deep armouries filled with great wealth of weapons: metal wrought like fishes' mail an shining like water in the moon; swords and axes, shields an helms, wrought by Telchar himself or by his master Gamil Zirak the old, or by elven-wrights more skilful still." "'Stare, if you must, great eyes!' he said. 'You're a pretty girl, but too thin. Will you eat?' He took a loaf out of his bag. 'Be off, �bal!' cried an old woman, coming from the dairy-door. 'And use your long legs, or you'll forget the message I gave you for your mother before you get home!' 'No need for a watch-dog where you are, mother Zam�n!' cried the boy, and with a bark and a shout he leapt over the gate and went off at a run down the hill. Zam�n was an old country�woman, free-tongued, and not easily daunted, even by the White Lady." "There I lay staring upward, while the stars wheeled over, and each day was as long as a life-age of the earth. Faint to my ears came the rumour of all lands: the springing and the dying, the song and the weeping, and the slow everlasting groan of overburdened stone." Have fun! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3517 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38121 invoked by uid 102); 30 Mar 2013 23:00:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mta2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.150) by m5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2013 23:00:20 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 27044 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2013 23:00:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng15-ip1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.215.234) by mta2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2013 23:00:20 -0000 X-Received: from [98.138.217.177] by ng15.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2013 23:00:19 -0000 X-Received: from [10.193.94.42] by tg2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2013 23:00:19 -0000 Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 23:00:19 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM 2013: Day Thirty-One X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=LjsSIkgw5GpSzPyiY9EYVpi91Ze3vE7nKOr5ZAgM8ALoNXWSs59IOiQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard MARCH 31 Today is the final day of B2MeM, so we've decided to do something= special. When writing for challenges, it is often the case that you see a = prompt and think that it could inspire an amazing story or work of art =85 = but it's not something you feel that *you* can tackle. For our final B2MeM = challenge, you will be able to challenge fellow participants to create a re= sponse to that prompt you loved but couldn't find the inspiration for, didn= 't feel prepared to handle, or just ran out of time for. Final Challenge R= ules 1. First, choose a B2MeM 2013 prompt that you'd like to challenge anot= her participant to respond to. 2. Next, choose *one* other literary or can= on element to add to your challenge. For example, you might challenge the p= articipant to write about a particular character, or you might add the chal= lenge to respond in a particular form or genre. Additional elements include= but are not limited to characters, groups/races, eras, settings/places, te= xtual sources, events, themes, genres, and forms. Examples B2MeM Promp: "T= hey will think we had a very strong magic to pass through all those locked = doors and disappear." (Day One) Additional Element: the story should be set= in Angband B2MeM Prompt: "Now let thy children beware! For there shall wa= lk a power in the forests whose wrath they will arouse at their peril." (Da= y 7) Additional Element: genre: bedtime story 3. Comment here: http://b2me= m.livejournal.com/238598.html with your challenge. Your first challenge is = free! For each additional challenge you leave, you must first respond to at= least one other challenge here. For example, after you claim and create yo= ur response to someone else's challenge, you can comment with a second chal= lenge. After you claim and create your response to another challenge, you c= an comment with a third challenge, and so on. 4. Claim a challenge by repl= ying to that comment. More than one person can claim a challenge. 5. Pleas= e claim only one challenge at a time. After you finish the first challenge,= you may claim a second challenge, and so on. (This will hopefully prevent = claiming sprees that result in piles of WiPs!) 6. You do not need to post = your response to the challenge(s) you claim. You do need to make a signific= ant start (you are the judge of what that means!) on your response before p= osting or claiming additional challenges. For example, if you plan to write= a five-chapter story, you might consider finishing the first chapter to be= a significant start. Please remember that while you are challenging your = fellow participants, this is *not* a ficswap. It might happen that no one c= laims your challenge, or those who do might not finish or publicly share th= eir responses. The responses that are created might involve topics or chara= cters that don't interest you. Likewise, you're under no obligation to read= or respond to the pieces created for your challenge, although we certainly= encourage you to do so, if you wish. Please use the format below when pos= ting your challenges. B2MeM 2013 Prompt: Additional Element:= Remember, Reading Week starts tomorrow! If you'd like to participate, Re= ading Week guidelines can be found here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/23157= 7.html. Reading Week banners can be found here: http://b2mem.livejournal.co= m/235987.html . Nath made some new and awesome banners, so do check them ou= t! Good luck everyone! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3518 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65055 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2013 23:06:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.131) by m6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Mar 2013 23:06:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng5-vm5.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.136.219.57) by mta4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2013 23:06:29 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.0.84] by ng5.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Mar 2013 23:06:28 -0000 X-Received: from [10.193.94.105] by tg4.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Mar 2013 23:06:28 -0000 Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 23:06:27 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: B2MeM 2013: Reading week! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=N_g_piq1w80jblR6P9I73RehRwlEJLbPneHKa0oNv2er6FWCqKPNM58 X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all! For the first time we're hosting a B2MEM reading week. We hope to = encourage reading and commenting on B2MeM stories and artwork. This special= week will run April 1 through 7. Reading Week guidelines can be found he= re: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/198471.html#cutid3 The reading week banner= s can be found here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/235987.html But it's pre= tty straightforward: read, comment, claim banner! :) But how do I go abou= t finding all these magnificent pieces? To make things easier on you, we've= made a list of all the stories written for B2MeM 2013 to this community an= d organised them by day. Unfortunately we had to split it up in two posts. = If you have written something for B2MEM2013 this year, but it is posted els= ewhere? Just leave a comment with the link so on this lj post: http://b2me= m.livejournal.com/239074.html This way our readers can find you. B2MeM 201= 3: stories posted on day 1 - day 15 http://b2mem.livejournal.com/239421.htm= l B2MeM 2013: stories posted on day 16 - day 31 http://b2mem.livejournal.co= m/239623.html Readers: sit back, click away and have fun! And don't forget= to collect your shiney! Have fun! Rhapsody From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3519 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50553 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2013 18:33:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.151) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2013 18:33:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f172.google.com) (209.85.217.172) by mta5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2013 18:33:35 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f172.google.com with SMTP id u10so4069429lbi.31 for ; Fri, 05 Apr 2013 11:33:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.145.8 with SMTP id sq8mr6752550lbb.55.1365186815023; Fri, 05 Apr 2013 11:33:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Apr 2013 11:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 14:33:34 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b343d3629632304d9a153a0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Newsletter Running Late ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=-TnRug1u29zx0Xkan0xyZmUzWdsOhPmEpAZUUexvdZLZwd6H78jW X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --047d7b343d3629632304d9a153a0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I just wanted to let everyone know that the SWG newsletter is running late this month. I have been out of town and now am having trouble with some of the files I need to publish. This month's newsletter is going to be a really good one, so I hope it will be worth the wait! :) Since we're never missed a newsletter in almost eight years, I wanted to give everyone a heads-up that I do not plan on starting now but am trying to schlep through technical problems while jet-lagged! ;) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --047d7b343d3629632304d9a153a0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just wanted to let everyone know that the SWG newsletter is running late = this month. I have been out of town and now am having trouble with some of = the files I need to publish. This month's newsletter is going to be a r= eally good one, so I hope it will be worth the wait! :) Since we're nev= er missed a newsletter in almost eight years, I wanted to give everyone a h= eads-up that I do not plan on starting now but am trying to schlep through = technical problems while jet-lagged! ;)

--047d7b343d3629632304d9a153a0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3520 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 650 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2013 19:32:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.168) by m4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2013 19:32:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f171.google.com) (209.85.217.171) by mta6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2013 19:32:22 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id v10so5119802lbd.30 for ; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 12:32:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.146.34 with SMTP id sz2mr10108426lbb.4.1365363142010; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 12:32:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.133.34 with HTTP; Sun, 7 Apr 2013 12:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 15:32:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a85c811ae1104d9ca61a2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: April 2013 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=tEg9sPQ967ZiDXJ2qUL0pV5hceZbgxhTcFxi16OUMGNgAd3ZoaYK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --047d7b3a85c811ae1104d9ca61a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The April 2013 newsletter has been posted! It is late but worth the wait! We've got a lot of good stuff this month. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/april2013.php It's (Inter)national Poetry Month, and quite coincidentally, much of our newsletter content has coalesced around that theme. (This was purely coincidental, as I don't have the presence of mind at this point to plan that far in the future!) Our podfic this month is really a special one: a recital of the songs found on lost scrolls of humorous Beleriandic poetry. Aiwen has recorded her delightful and humorous "The OTHER Lays of Beleriand" this month, including original music. This fun piece is definitely worth a listen! Keeping with the theme of long-lost loremasters, Oshun's character biography this month focuses on Rumil of Tirion, a character who is present mostly in his role as the fictional author of *The Silmarillion.* As one of Tolkien's earliest characters, however, Rumil has an intriguing history, which Oshun explores in this month's biography. We have a new challenge this month, "Arda Underground." This challenge asks authors to journey off of the main avenues of Arda's cities to write about the lives of those characters who don't make the published histories. We also revisit the "Inspiration" challenge and feature a new quote this month to inspire you. March is always a busy month for us because of B2MeM, so if you want something to read, check out the list of March stories. We also have lots of news to share, both from within the SWG and without, as well as articles on topics from similarities between the Silm and *The Hobbit* to how to write good adult fiction. Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --047d7b3a85c811ae1104d9ca61a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The April 2013 newsletter has been posted! It i= s late but worth the wait! We've got a lot of good stuff this month.


It's (Inter)national Poetry Month, and= quite coincidentally, much of our newsletter content has coalesced around = that theme. (This was purely coincidental, as I don't have the presence= of mind at this point to plan that far in the future!) Our podfic this mon= th is really a special one: a recital of the songs found on lost scrolls of= humorous Beleriandic poetry. Aiwen has recorded her delightful and humorou= s "The OTHER Lays of Beleriand" this month, including original mu= sic. This fun piece is definitely worth a listen!

Keeping with the theme of long-lost loremasters, Oshun's character bio= graphy this month focuses on Rumil of Tirion, a character who is present mo= stly in his role as the fictional author of The Silmarillion.=C2=A0A= s one of Tolkien's earliest characters, however, Rumil has an intriguin= g history, which Oshun explores in this month's biography.
<= br>
We have a new challenge this month, "Arda Underground.&q= uot; This challenge asks authors to journey off of the main avenues of Arda= 's cities to write about the lives of those characters who don't ma= ke the published histories. We also revisit the "Inspiration" cha= llenge and feature a new quote this month to inspire you.

March is always a busy month for us because of B2MeM, so if you wa= nt something to read, check out the list of March stories. We also have lot= s of news to share, both from within the SWG and without, as well as articl= es on topics from similarities between the Silm and The Hobbit=C2=A0= to how to write good adult fiction.

Enjoy!
<= div>
--047d7b3a85c811ae1104d9ca61a2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3521 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71271 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2013 13:34:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.168) by m6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2013 13:34:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng10-ip2.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.165.78) by mta6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2013 13:34:21 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.164.121] by ng10.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2013 13:34:21 -0000 X-Received: from [10.193.94.110] by tg2.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2013 13:34:21 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:34:20 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Doc Bushwell" Subject: Tales of Middle Earth (ToME) Awards update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=kj1Ri2tWI0T0EYj3rfPD6HevrOcYP5KUiWDZHKc5Smh4LRdsB--L2tb4 X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 Please see the most recent post on the ToME LJ Community site: http://tome= -awards.livejournal.com/48720.html We have announced a delay to the initia= tion of the awards. Please see the text below. Links and an image of the = timeline may be found in the original post on the ToME LJ Community. Pleas= e comment there. Thanks! Pand=EB -------------------------- According to= the previous timeline (see below), we proposed to open nominations for the= ToME Awards this month. Obviously, the call for nominations has not occurr= ed, and on behalf of the Stewards, I am posting this as an update. The pri= mary reasons for the delay are time and resources, always the big bugaboos = for projects of this nature. The number of the volunteers who comprise the = core group responsible for developing the awards is quite small. For exampl= e, a single volunteer is working on the coding for the site, which is a com= plex and time-consuming task. Furthermore, the volunteers of this small c= ore group, who are picking away at the tasks required to create effective p= rocesses and a user-friendly site, have (like all of you) significant Real = Life demands, including life events =97 some expected and some unplanned = =97 that appropriately take high priority. Thus, time and energy remaining = for extracurricular activities, such as developing the awards, are attenuat= ed. As a result, the Stewards have decided to postpone the call for nomina= tions until next year: April 2014. The Awards calendar will proceed as prev= iously proposed, just substitute 2014 for 2013 and adjust the corresponding= day of the week. So, in summary, the ToME Awards will not take place in 2= 013. However, we are still committed to bringing the ToME Awards forward. W= e aim to launch the site and nominations in 2014 and follow the same genera= l timeline as originally proposed. We plan to provide updates here on the c= ommunity LJ and to other sites (Yahoo groups, etc.) on a regular basis. If= you have any questions, please feel free to comment here, and as always, i= f you wish to volunteer to help nudge the Awards development along, please = do! See the Welcome post above for potential opportunities. The biggest and= most immediate need now is website build, a.k.a., constructing My Little P= ony. Please see the website build tag (Task Force 3a) at the right for hist= orical posts on the subject. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3522 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78985 invoked from network); 3 May 2013 14:14:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (10.193.84.151) by m2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2013 14:14:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f54.google.com) (209.85.215.54) by mta5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2013 14:14:39 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id fd20so1563378lab.13 for ; Fri, 03 May 2013 07:14:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.120.168 with SMTP id ld8mr410684lab.53.1367590479012; Fri, 03 May 2013 07:14:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.151.6 with HTTP; Fri, 3 May 2013 07:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 10:14:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e012281a4b32a5404dbd0f80c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: May 2013 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=CeXk43oPVEPc70eqqMQC-INELkFl7Qyj-J2Gqi9UMhHVlI4-HbMu X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --089e012281a4b32a5404dbd0f80c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The May 2013 newsletter has been posted: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/may2013.php We have lots of good stuff this month work checking out! Our Featured Podfic this month is Pandemonium's thought-provoking "Trinity," a long-time favorite of readers on our site and the story that formed the basis of her own verse. Robert Oppenheimer discusses the invention of the atomic bomb with two other scientists from Middle-earth. Pandemonium reads her own story for this month's podfic and provides listeners with additional commentary about the story at the end; I listened to it last night while working on the newsletter and loved it--it's well worth a listen! Every month with very few exceptions, Oshun writes our character biography. This month, she chose an "obscure" character, Legolas of Gondolin. I expected a few paragraphs citing what little the texts say about him. As always, Oshun has exceeded my expectations! This month's biography asks the intriguing question of what, if any, connection exists between Legolas of Gondolin and *that other *Legolas, the prince-of-Mirkwood-and-beloved-of-fangirls Legolas. In the process, she unveils many interesting connections that remind readers of the astounding depth of Tolkien's world. We don't have much news from within the group this month, since most of our mods are chin-deep in real-life obligations, but we do welcome several new members to our site. If your looking for something fannish to do this month, our Around the World and Web section includes links to multiple challenges, projects, and classes to participate in, as well as links to articles about Tolkien and writing. We had quite a number of new works added and updated on the archive last month, including quite a few new poems just in time for Poetry Month, so if you're looking for something to read, visit our story list to check out the new offerings. Finally, we continue our "Arda Underground" challenge and reintroduce "Fanon Inverted," as well as a new quote of the month. My sincerest thanks go to our newsletter contributors, who have kept the SWG newsletter running for almost eight years now! Thank you Oshun, Pandemonium, and Rhapsody for your contributions this month! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e012281a4b32a5404dbd0f80c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The May 2013 newsletter has been posted:
<= div>
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/may2013.php

We have lots of good stuff this month work checkin= g out!

Our Featured Podfic this month is Pandemoni= um's thought-provoking "Trinity," a long-time favorite of rea= ders on our site and the story that formed the basis of her own verse. Robe= rt Oppenheimer discusses the invention of the atomic bomb with two other sc= ientists from Middle-earth. Pandemonium reads her own story for this month&= #39;s podfic and provides listeners with additional commentary about the st= ory at the end; I listened to it last night while working on the newsletter= and loved it--it's well worth a listen!

Ever= y month with very few exceptions, Oshun writes our character biography. Thi= s month, she chose an "obscure" character, Legolas of Gondolin. I= expected a few paragraphs citing what little the texts say about him. As a= lways, Oshun has exceeded my expectations! This month's biography asks = the intriguing question of what, if any, connection exists between Legolas = of Gondolin and that other Legolas, the prince-of-Mirkwood-and-belov= ed-of-fangirls Legolas. In the process, she unveils many interesting connec= tions that remind readers of the astounding depth of Tolkien's world.

We don't have much news from within the group = this month, since most of our mods are chin-deep in real-life obligations, = but we do welcome several new members to our site. If your looking for some= thing fannish to do this month, our Around the World and Web section includ= es links to multiple challenges, projects, and classes to participate in, a= s well as links to articles about Tolkien and writing. We had quite a numbe= r of new works added and updated on the archive last month, including quite= a few new poems just in time for Poetry Month, so if you're looking fo= r something to read, visit our story list to check out the new offerings. F= inally, we continue our "Arda Underground" challenge and reintrod= uce "Fanon Inverted," as well as a new quote of the month.
=

My sincerest thanks go to our newsletter contributors, = who have kept the SWG newsletter running for almost eight years now! Thank = you Oshun, Pandemonium, and Rhapsody for your contributions this month!

Dawn

--
~oOo~Dawn Felagund
h= ttp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e012281a4b32a5404dbd0f80c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3523 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89663 invoked by uid 102); 4 Jun 2013 01:34:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m9.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2013 01:34:55 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 10377 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2013 01:34:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f172.google.com) (209.85.217.172) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2013 01:34:54 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f172.google.com with SMTP id p10so95777lbi.3 for ; Mon, 03 Jun 2013 18:34:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.141.70 with SMTP id rm6mr11744472lbb.115.1370309694017; Mon, 03 Jun 2013 18:34:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.126.66 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 18:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 21:34:53 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3819c8b55fa04de4a166f X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: June 2013 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=zD0Il7wo58sSA33HGIUe38xsME4uORPusTWYqdMQNILwGffKQHYO X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001a11c3819c8b55fa04de4a166f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, June's newsletter has been posted on our website! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/june2013.php May was a busy month, with lots of activity on the site and in fandom in general, so we have lots to report! First, our featured character this month is Dior, and Oshun has written another of her wonderful biographies, not only giving the quick-and-dirty details about him from the texts but also reviewing his development from the *Lost Tales* to the published * Silmarillion* and posing intriguing speculative questions about his effectiveness as a leader. As usual, it is almost impossible to walk away from one of Oshun's biographies without wanting to read and write more about the character she discusses, and this one is no exception! Anuhealani has produced this month's Featured Podfic: a gorgeous reading of my story "Five Bells." She reads the story exactly as I imagined it in my head (so if you've ever wondered what it's like in my head, go listen to it. Even if you haven't, go listen to it anyway--she did a wonderful job! :) The SWG will once again be participating in the International Day of Femslash--scheduled this year for July 20--so we invite all of our femslash writers or wannabe-femslash writers to start thinking about stories now so that we can overtake the Web on July 20th with Tolkien-based femslash fic. Also, it's been a while since we begged and pleaded for help with the Library of Tirion section of our archive. This section has lain dormant for a few months now. Dedicated to collecting stories and keeping fandom history alive from before our site existed, the Library of Tirion only works if *you* suggest your favorite stories and authors who wrote before 2007! :) We are also getting ready to produce our second round of Featured Podfics, so we invite suggestions of stories you'd like to hear recorded as well. See the News section for links and more information. Fandom has been busy this past month, from debating agency at Alqualonde to the Kindle Worlds announcement. Visit our Around the World and Web section for links to discussions, resources, challenges, and other Tolkien-related news from beyond our group. In June, we revisit the "Many Meetings" challenge--which asks authors to write a story the *doesn't* involve physical conflict--and continue the "Arda Underground" challenge. We had a number of new stories and poems added and updated during the month of May, so if you're looking for something to read, check them out. As always, the continued existence of our newsletter is thanks to the hard work of our contributors. Many, many thanks to Oshun, anuhealani, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica for their help putting together this month's edition! All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a11c3819c8b55fa04de4a166f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

June's newsletter has been posted on our we= bsite!


May was a busy month, with lots of = activity on the site and in fandom in general, so we have lots to report! F= irst, our featured character this month is Dior, and Oshun has written anot= her of her wonderful biographies, not only giving the quick-and-dirty detai= ls about him from the texts but also reviewing his development from the = Lost Tales=C2=A0to the published Silmarillion=C2=A0and posing in= triguing speculative questions about his effectiveness as a leader. As usua= l, it is almost impossible to walk away from one of Oshun's biographies= without wanting to read and write more about the character she discusses, = and this one is no exception!

Anuhealani has prod= uced this month's Featured Podfic: a gorgeous reading of my story "= ;Five Bells." She reads the story exactly as I imagined it in my head = (so if you've ever wondered what it's like in my head, go listen to= it. Even if you haven't, go listen to it anyway--she did a wonderful j= ob! :)

The SWG will once again be participating i= n the International Day of Femslash--scheduled this year for July 20--so we= invite all of our femslash writers or wannabe-femslash writers to start th= inking about stories now so that we can overtake the Web on July 20th with = Tolkien-based femslash fic. Also, it's been a while since we begged and= pleaded for help with the Library of Tirion section of our archive. This s= ection has lain dormant for a few months now. Dedicated to collecting stori= es and keeping fandom history alive from before our site existed, the Libra= ry of Tirion only works if you=C2=A0suggest your favorite stories an= d authors who wrote before 2007! :) We are also getting ready to produce ou= r second round of Featured Podfics, so we invite suggestions of stories you= 'd like to hear recorded as well. See the News section for links and mo= re information.

Fandom has been busy this past mo= nth, from debating agency at Alqualonde to the Kindle Worlds announcement. = Visit our Around the World and Web section for links to discussions, resour= ces, challenges, and other Tolkien-related news from beyond our group.

In June, we revisit the "Many Meetings" cha= llenge--which asks authors to write a story the doesn't=C2=A0inv= olve physical conflict--and continue the "Arda Underground" chall= enge. We had a number of new stories and poems added and updated during the= month of May, so if you're looking for something to read, check them o= ut.

As always, the continued existence of our new= sletter is thanks to the hard work of our contributors. Many, many thanks t= o Oshun, anuhealani, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica for their help putti= ng together this month's edition!

All the bes= t,

--001a11c3819c8b55fa04de4a166f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3524 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19898 invoked by uid 102); 15 Jun 2013 16:52:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.36) by m7.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2013 16:52:57 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 1297 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2013 16:52:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f177.google.com) (209.85.214.177) by mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2013 16:52:57 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f177.google.com with SMTP id ta17so1787262obb.36 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:52:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.60.39.165 with SMTP id q5mr4622220oek.109.1371315177203; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:52:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.76.81.38 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 12:52:37 -0400 Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotrallslash@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com, glorfindel_of_imladris@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013cbeec03305b04df3432f2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Red Subject: Sultry in September 2013 - Signups begin today! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=mzP4gaBPgaPOl6TflBTQUoS4XkL3ECgsvZnMxejJhyL7pETNIJ_E X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --089e013cbeec03305b04df3432f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sign up now for Sultry in September 2013: a Tolkien Slash exchange! From th= e Years of the Trees through the Fourth Age =96 it's time once again to mak= e your Tolkien FPS fanfic dreams come true=85 Have you always wanted to re= ad a certain pairing or scenario, but couldn't write it yourself? Or have a= plot bunny that's been rolling around in your mind, but just can't see you= rself writing that particular story? Have it written for you =96 specifica= lly and especially for your own sweet self! And share your own fic gift in = exchange! That's right, it's time for Sultry in September brought to you b= y the same folks who sponsor the renowned My Slashy Valentine and Ardor in = August Fiction Exchange. The exchange focuses on the Elves, Man, Valar and= Maiar of J.R.R. Tolkien's legendarium. Maybe it's Legolas and Haldir you l= ove, or perhaps Aragorn-on-Halbarad strikes your fancy... or maybe Manwe is= your main man - from the First Age to the Fourth =96 spread the word, recr= uit your friends and fellow authors, and have some fun! Sign-ups begin Jun= e 15th and will close at midnight (GMT-5:00) on Saturday, June 29th. For fi= rst time participants, stories will be due by August 17th, and for returnin= g writers they will be due on August 24th. They will be unveiled on the Sla= shy Santa collection on AO3 < http://archiveofourown.org/collections/2013_S= iS> on September 1, 2013. How does a fiction exchange work? It's simple. R= EAD THE RULES posted in the Slashy Santa LJ community (link here < http://s= lashy-santa.livejournal.com/73707.html> ) and you will find a link to the s= ign-up page where you may specify a pairing, rating, and the plot elements = you would like to read, as well as the elements you are willing to write, a= nd someone will write a story for you. In exchange, you will write a story = for someone else using the specifications they provide. Even if you don't = want to take part in the exchange, you can still elect to be a reserve writ= er to be called upon in case of an emergency. Just say so on the signup for= m. All we ask is that you adhere to some basic rules - If you sign up, ple= ase make sure that you can follow through and write at least 1,200 words. P= lease note also that this is a SLASH only FPS exchange (no RPS or het, plea= se). PLEASE NOTE: If you have defaulted in previous years, you will NOT be= allowed to participate this year! These stories are gifts for your friends= and fellow fans, and it is incredibly disappointing for a participant who = has worked hard to turn in their own story only to find that we have nothin= g to give them. There will be no exceptions to this rule. Visit the Swap R= ules and FAQ for the full = set of rules and Frequently Asked Questions. Here are some important dates= to make note of: * June 15th - 29th : Sign-up period * July 4th: Assignme= nts delivered * August 17th: Stories due from first time participants * Aug= ust 24th: Stories due from returning writers * September 1st: Archive opens= Come check out SlashySanta.com and = peruse some of the past entries - they're terrific and will give you an ide= a of what's in store! Hope to see you there! The Slashy Mod "'Tis Always = the Season for Slash!" --089e013cbeec03305b04df3432f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sign up now for Sultry in September 2013: a Tolkien S= lash exchange! From the Years of the Trees through the Fourth Age =96 it= 9;s time once again to make your Tolkien FPS fanfic dreams come true=85

Have you always wanted to read a certain pairing or= scenario, but couldn't write it yourself? Or have a plot bunny that= 9;s been rolling around in your mind, but just can't see yourself writi= ng that particular story?

Have it written for yo= u =96 specifically and especially for your own sweet self! And share your o= wn fic gift in exchange!

That's right, it'= s time for Sultry in September brought to you by the same folks who sponsor= the renowned My Slashy Valentine and Ardor in August Fiction Exchange.

The exchange focuses on the Elves, Man, Valar and M= aiar of J.R.R. Tolkien's legendarium. Maybe it's Legolas and Haldir= you love, or perhaps Aragorn-on-Halbarad strikes your fancy... or maybe Ma= nwe is your main man - from the First Age to the Fourth =96 spread the word= , recruit your friends and fellow authors, and have some fun!
<= br>

<= div>How does a fiction exchange work? It's simple. READ THE RULES poste= d in the Slashy Santa LJ community (link here <http://slashy-santa.livejournal.com/73707= .html> ) and you will find a link to the sign-up page where you may = specify a pairing, rating, and the plot elements you would like to read, as= well as the elements you are willing to write, and someone will write a st= ory for you. In exchange, you will write a story for someone else using the= specifications they provide.

Even if you don= 9;t want to take part in the exchange, you can still elect to be a reserve = writer to be called upon in case of an emergency. Just say so on the signup= form.

All we ask is that you adhere to some basi= c rules - If you sign up, please make sure that you can follow through and = write at least 1,200 words. Please note also that this is a SLASH only FPS = exchange (no RPS or het, please).

PLEASE NOTE: I= f you have defaulted in previous years, you will NOT be allowed to particip= ate this year! These stories are gifts for your friends and fellow fans, an= d it is incredibly disappointing for a participant who has worked hard to t= urn in their own story only to find that we have nothing to give them. Ther= e will be no exceptions to this rule.

Visit the = Swap Rules and FAQ <http://slashy-santa.livejournal.com/73707.html> for the full = set of rules and Frequently Asked Questions.

Her= e are some important dates to make note of:

* June= 15th - 29th : Sign-up period
* July 4th: Assignments delivered
* August 17th: Stories due from first time participants
* August 24th: Stories due from returning writers
* September 1= st: Archive opens

Come check out SlashySanta.com &= lt;http://www.slashysanta.c= om/eFiction> and peruse some of the past entries - they're terri= fic and will give you an idea of what's in store!

Hope to see you there!

The Slashy Mod
<= div>"'Tis Always the Season for Slash!"

<= /div> --089e013cbeec03305b04df3432f2-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3525 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30889 invoked by uid 102); 20 Jun 2013 02:05:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.36) by m10.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2013 02:05:13 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 24813 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2013 02:05:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ie0-f178.google.com) (209.85.223.178) by mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2013 02:05:12 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ie0-f178.google.com with SMTP id u16so15096488iet.37 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:05:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.11.72 with SMTP id o8mr2782742igb.44.1371693912600; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:05:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.43.135.196 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:05:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdc166666b62404df8c6013 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: The Season of Writing Dangerously Is Coming! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=3tfv0UdU5aZasqUwHayDGP4ynNnTVGmQSzNlPT_NmVFVwumMvFwT X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --047d7bdc166666b62404df8c6013 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Two years ago, we ran a summer event called the Season of Writing Dangerously. The goal of this project is to commit ourselves, as writers and artists, to spend a whole season working toward goals that we set for ourselves. For some people, this takes the shape of putting a dent in their pile of WiPs. For others, it involves starting new pieces. No goal is too big or too small, and each participant decides what she or he wants to spend those three months working on. We have received numerous requests to run the Season of Writing Dangerously again, so we will be doing so this year. Sign-ups with open on June 21, on our LiveJournal community. (As always, you can email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org if you can't or prefer not to use LJ.) Participants will declare their goal and hopefully celebrate their success (and claim a very special prize that we are working to put together) on September 23, when the Season officially ends. Even though we are a *Silmarillion* group, all Tolkien-based projects are acceptable for the Season of Writing Dangerously, so if you know individuals or groups in the wider Tolkien fandom who might be interested in this, please do pass the word along. Full guidelines, more details, and sign-ups will be available on June 21! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --047d7bdc166666b62404df8c6013 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two years ago, we ran a summer event ca= lled the=C2=A0Season of Writing Dangerously. The goal of this project is to commit ourselves,= as writers and artists, to spend a whole season working toward goals that = we set for ourselves. For some people, this takes the shape of putting a de= nt in their pile of WiPs. For others, it involves starting new pieces. No g= oal is too big or too small, and each participant decides what she or he wa= nts to spend those three months working on.

We have received numerous requests to run the Season of Writing Danger= ously again, so we will be doing so this year. Sign-ups with open on June 2= 1, on our LiveJournal community. (As always, you can email us at moderator = AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org if you can't or prefer not to use L= J.) Participants will declare their goal and hopefully celebrate their succ= ess (and claim a very special prize that we are working to put together) on= September 23, when the Season officially ends.

Even though we are a=C2=A0Silmarillion=C2=A0group, all Tolk= ien-based projects are acceptable for the Season of Writing Dangerously, so= if you know individuals or groups in the wider Tolkien fandom who might be= interested in this, please do pass the word along. Full guidelines, more d= etails, and sign-ups will be available on June 21!

=
Dawn
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwr= itersguild.org
--047d7bdc166666b62404df8c6013-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3526 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70828 invoked by uid 102); 22 Jun 2013 18:20:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.37) by m4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2013 18:20:25 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 401 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2013 18:20:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f45.google.com) (209.85.215.45) by mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2013 18:20:25 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f45.google.com with SMTP id fr10so8750234lab.4 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.87.15 with SMTP id t15mr8003082laz.85.1371925224546; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.18.198 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 14:20:24 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3663eaae43304dfc23bb6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: 2013 Season of Writing Dangerously--Sign-Ups Open! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=LvD71ycpcrmQseQN51D5J9xb9-aio2J0ZpZB9zb-22xNa0pUjum5 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001a11c3663eaae43304dfc23bb6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The sign-up page is officially open for the 2013 Season of Writing Dangerously! http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/216934.html The Season of Writing Dangerously runs from solstice (June 21) through equinox (September 23). It is an event that encourages authors and artists to devote a whole season of the year to their craft. Participants set a goal for themselves and work toward that goal over the three months of the events. Those who meet their goals by September 23 will receive a very special award. (More details at the link above! :) There is no goal too big or too small. Any Tolkien-related project is acceptable; your project(s) do not have to be *Silmarillion*-based. Any media or format is welcome. To sign up, either comment at the link above (if you don't have an LJ account, we accept anonymous comments, OpenID, and logins from certain other social networking sites). If you can't or prefer not to use LiveJournal, simply email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and we'll get you signed up. Participant banners and icons are available here: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/217221.html Happy writing! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a11c3663eaae43304dfc23bb6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The sign-up page is officially open for the 201= 3 Season of Writing Dangerously!


The Season of Writing D= angerously runs from solstice (June 21) through equinox (September 23). It = is an event that encourages authors and artists to devote a whole season of= the year to their craft. Participants set a goal for themselves and work t= oward that goal over the three months of the events. Those who meet their g= oals by September 23 will receive a very special award. (More details at th= e link above! :)

There is no goal too big or too = small. Any Tolkien-related project is acceptable; your project(s) do not ha= ve to be Silmarillion-based. Any media or format is welcome. To sign= up, either comment at the link above (if you don't have an LJ account,= we accept anonymous comments, OpenID, and logins from certain other social= networking sites). If you can't or prefer not to use LiveJournal, simp= ly email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and we'll= get you signed up.

Participant banners and icons= are available here:


Happy writing! :)

--001a11c3663eaae43304dfc23bb6-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3527 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12528 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2013 13:07:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.63.212) by m8.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jun 2013 13:07:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f170.google.com) (209.85.214.170) by mtaq2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jun 2013 13:07:34 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f170.google.com with SMTP id ef5so2856814obb.1 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2013 06:07:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.60.2 with SMTP id d2mr8079062obr.75.1372511253220; Sat, 29 Jun 2013 06:07:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.76.89.242 with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jun 2013 06:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 09:07:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotrallslash@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com, glorfindel_of_imladris@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e015387dcb2d34b04e04aad44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Red Subject: Sultry in September 2013 - Last call for sign-ups! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=WA71PyVa1V4In2KPlVYpRl5zW4ocB5T8Aji0ZpMcMyFz8u7cTDda X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --089e015387dcb2d34b04e04aad44 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sultry in September 2013 (Tolkien fandom, all Ages, FPS only) sign-ups end tonight at midnight. If you would like to receive a special fic tailored to your prompts and write a reciprocal fic for someone else, sign up now while it is still open! Important Dates: Sign-up period: June 15 - June 29 Assignments to be distributed no later than July 4 Deadline for first-time participants: August 17, 2013 Deadline for returning participants: August 24, 2013 Archive opens: September 1, 2013 Head on over to here for the rules and sign-up link: http://slashy-santa.livejournal.com/73707.html We'd love to have you! Slashy Mod -- A life is a mosaic, crafted from the tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day. --089e015387dcb2d34b04e04aad44 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sultry in September 2013 (Tolkien fandom= , all Ages, FPS only) sign-ups end tonight at midnight. If you would like t= o receive a special fic tailored to your prompts and write a reciprocal fic= for someone else, sign up now while it is still open!
Important Dates:
Sign-up period: June 15 - June 29
Assignments to be distributed no later than July 4
Deadline for first-time participant= s: August 17, 2013
Deadline for r= eturning participants: August 24, 2013
Archive opens: September 1, 2013

Head on over to here for the rules and sign-up link:=
http://slashy-santa.livejournal.com/73707.html
=
We'd love to have you!

Slashy Mod

--
A life is a mosaic, crafted from the tiny piece= s of what you do each day, every day.
--089e015387dcb2d34b04e04aad44-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3528 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83973 invoked by uid 102); 3 Jul 2013 03:36:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m12.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2013 03:36:02 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 12089 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2013 03:36:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ie0-f176.google.com) (209.85.223.176) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2013 03:36:02 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ie0-f176.google.com with SMTP id ar20so14596641iec.35 for ; Tue, 02 Jul 2013 20:36:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.202.144 with SMTP id fe16mr940974icb.72.1372822562328; Tue, 02 Jul 2013 20:36:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.43.135.196 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 20:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 23:36:02 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf301af5c52ad97c04e093292e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: July 2013 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=4IGC2LLj1P1qHhQcr513nQSNybzFAF6FWl4kxjRREQI_0f5NyYR6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --20cf301af5c52ad97c04e093292e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The July 2013 newsletter has been posted here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/july2013.php We have quite a busy summer going on this year. 'Tis the Season of Writing Dangerously, when you can craft your own challenge to mop up some of your WiPs or to nudge your muses to take on something new. July is also home to the International Day of Femslash, and the SWG will be participating for its fifth year, so we once again invite the femslash fans in our group to post a femslash Silmfic on July 20. And, of course, next month will be Akallabeth in August, when we go nuts for everything Second Age. Quite a number of groups outside the SWG are hosting challenges as well, whether you want to write for a Big Bang or if ficlets are more your speed. These announcements, as well as articles and resources of interest, can be found in the Around the World and Web section. We have a new challenge this month, United They Stand, which asks writers to explore issues of equality and emancipation in Arda. Hand-in-hand with that is our revisited challenge, Untold History, which asks writers to take the point of view of a character disfavored by history, in order to tell their story and explore their motives. And, of course, we have a new quote of the month and a list of all of the stories posted to our archive in June as well. This month's Podfic of the Month is Russandol's hilarious "Spring Cleaning." As Manwe and Varda get ready for guests, we learn a thing or two about Valarin marriage and division of chores. A link to listen to or download this podfic is in the newsletter. Finally, we have a very special character biography this month: very special because it is Oshun's *fiftieth* for our site. That's fifty times writing extensively researched, meticulously referenced, and engagingly written full-length essays about every character under the sun, whether she is interested in the character or not, come family crisis or computer problems, and always with grace (and far fewer typos than she'd have you believe). Oshun's biographies are one of the true treasures of the site and an invaluable resource for Tolkien fans everywhere. This month's (50th!) biography is about Indis. Indis is one of those pivotal characters who, like so many of Tolkien's women, we know so little about. Her love for Finwe and her willingness to marry him against custom changed the history of Arda for both good and bad. Oshun has not only pulled out the details of what we know of Indis but has dug deeper to suggest the woman behind the vague historical figure we are given in the texts. As always, the biography is well worth a read. As always, most of the effort of producing this newsletter goes to our intrepid volunteers. Thank you Oshun, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica for your assistance in putting together this month's newsletter! I hope everyone enjoys. :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --20cf301af5c52ad97c04e093292e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The July 2013 newsletter has been posted here:<= /div>


We have quite a busy su= mmer going on this year. 'Tis the Season of Writing Dangerously, when y= ou can craft your own challenge to mop up some of your WiPs or to nudge you= r muses to take on something new. July is also home to the International Da= y of Femslash, and the SWG will be participating for its fifth year, so we = once again invite the femslash fans in our group to post a femslash Silmfic= on July 20. And, of course, next month will be Akallabeth in August, when = we go nuts for everything Second Age.

Quite a nu= mber of groups outside the SWG are hosting challenges as well, whether you = want to write for a Big Bang or if ficlets are more your speed. These annou= ncements, as well as articles and resources of interest, can be found in th= e Around the World and Web section.

We have a ne= w challenge this month, United They Stand, which asks writers to explore is= sues of equality and emancipation in Arda. Hand-in-hand with that is our re= visited challenge, Untold History, which asks writers to take the point of = view of a character disfavored by history, in order to tell their story and= explore their motives. And, of course, we have a new quote of the month an= d a list of all of the stories posted to our archive in June as well.
=

This month's Podfic of the Month is Russandol'= ;s hilarious "Spring Cleaning." As Manwe and Varda get ready for = guests, we learn a thing or two about Valarin marriage and division of chor= es. A link to listen to or download this podfic is in the newsletter.
=

Finally, we have a very special character biography t= his month: very special because it is Oshun's fiftieth=C2=A0for = our site. That's fifty times writing extensively researched, meticulous= ly referenced, and engagingly written full-length essays about every charac= ter under the sun, whether she is interested in the character or not, come = family crisis or computer problems, and always with grace (and far fewer ty= pos than she'd have you believe). Oshun's biographies are one of th= e true treasures of the site and an invaluable resource for Tolkien fans ev= erywhere.

This month's (50th!) biography is a= bout Indis. Indis is one of those pivotal characters who, like so many of T= olkien's women, we know so little about. Her love for Finwe and her wil= lingness to marry him against custom changed the history of Arda for both g= ood and bad. Oshun has not only pulled out the details of what we know of I= ndis but has dug deeper to suggest the woman behind the vague historical fi= gure we are given in the texts. As always, the biography is well worth a re= ad.

As always, most of the effort of producing th= is newsletter goes to our intrepid volunteers. Thank you Oshun, Rhapsody, R= ussandol, and Angelica for your assistance in putting together this month&#= 39;s newsletter! I hope everyone enjoys. :)

--20cf301af5c52ad97c04e093292e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3529 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34926 invoked by uid 102); 31 Jul 2013 01:02:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.37) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2013 01:02:30 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 4398 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2013 01:02:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f51.google.com) (209.85.215.51) by mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2013 01:02:30 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f51.google.com with SMTP id fp13so59296lab.24 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:02:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.9.233 with SMTP id d9mr2813031lab.33.1375232549455; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:02:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.51.14 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 21:02:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1132f32298968904e2c447e3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Fall Mythgard Courses: "Tolkien and Tradition" and "Philology through Tolkien" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=KIPVFgvW-lK8HW0H2ZOlmctD3BPGaL3Ip11wppk_9H15MiClKmCb X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001a1132f32298968904e2c447e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The Mythgard Institute has just posted their final Fall 2013 course schedule, and there are some goodies for us Tolkien fans! http://www.mythgard.org/academics/fall-2013-courses/ They are offering "Tolkien and Tradition," taught by Dr. Verlyn Flieger, and "Philology through Tolkien," taught by Dr. Corey Olsen. Both of these professors are big names in Tolkien scholarship. I've had a course with Dr. Flieger before, and she's a great lecturer, very approachable, and open to discussion and questions from students--the class would frequently run over a half-hour or more. All of these courses are graduate-level and online; the fees to audit a class are reasonable, in my opinion. More information is available on the Mythgard site. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a1132f32298968904e2c447e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

The Mythgard Institute has just posted their fi= nal Fall 2013 course schedule, and there are some goodies for us Tolkien fa= ns!


They are offering "Tolkien and Tradition,&q= uot; taught by Dr. Verlyn Flieger, and "Philology through Tolkien,&quo= t; taught by Dr. Corey Olsen. Both of these professors are big names in Tol= kien scholarship. I've had a course with Dr. Flieger before, and she= 9;s a great lecturer, very approachable, and open to discussion and questio= ns from students--the class would frequently run over a half-hour or more. = All of these courses are graduate-level and online; the fees to audit a cla= ss are reasonable, in my opinion. More information is available on the Myth= gard site.

Dawn
--001a1132f32298968904e2c447e3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3530 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61968 invoked by uid 102); 2 Aug 2013 17:14:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2013 17:14:22 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 1639 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2013 17:14:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng23-vm5.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (67.195.87.119) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2013 17:14:22 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.0.87] by ng23.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2013 17:14:22 -0000 X-Received: from [10.193.94.42] by tg7.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2013 17:14:22 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 17:14:21 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Announce: yes X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "rhapsody_the_bard" Subject: SWG site is down... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=T5bN8-V72xyTrKRSbnrno4qlnMYH2PKX9CjaN5B_TJMqPE_8g69FrzY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, Last night our host Bluehost was performing maintenance and appare= ntly ran into a heap of troubles. The issue that arose is considered as a r= are occurrence, but it did escalate since their network is experiencing iss= ues and they haven't solved it as of yet. But they are working very hard on= this; cancelling all leaves and calling in as many people as they can to g= et everything back up and running. How does this affect us? Well=85 the S= WG site is completely down and cannot be reached at the moment. Yeps, Mr M= urphy strikes! No worries, I made a back-up before they performed their mai= ntenance. Since we don't know how long this will last, we have to wait for= Bluehost letting us know when they have solved it. I am monitoring their t= witter account as I type this. Once we know and the site is back up and se= rvice has returned to normal we will let you all know. That's it for now a= nd my apologies for the unexpected downtime. I hope everything is soon ba= ck to normal and we can get our Silm fix :) Rhapsody (who now cannot procr= astinate and has to appease some muses) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3531 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12103 invoked by uid 102); 2 Aug 2013 17:48:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.37) by m7.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2013 17:48:30 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 29160 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2013 17:48:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f178.google.com) (209.85.217.178) by mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2013 17:48:30 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id z5so650685lbh.37 for ; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:48:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.72.67 with SMTP id b3mr3985301lbv.35.1375465709563; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:48:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.51.14 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:48:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:48:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c341f004f57104e2fa9193 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] SWG site is down... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=T_4AW5_cTl3sy8ZaOHd214kBe_nK8fNJyT6VgUT1HMF6fGW0xjc- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001a11c341f004f57104e2fa9193 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Rhapsy! I noticed all of my Bluehost sites were blipping in and = out this morning but had no idea the issue was that severe. Hopefully it w= ill be back up soon. Dawn On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:14 PM, rhapsody_the_ba= rd wrote: > ** > > > Hi all, > > Last night our host= Bluehost was performing maintenance and apparently ran > into a heap of tr= oubles. The issue that arose is considered as a rare > occurrence, but it d= id escalate since their network is experiencing issues > and they haven't s= olved it as of yet. But they are working very hard on > this; cancelling al= l leaves and calling in as many people as they can to > get everything back= up and running. > > How does this affect us? Well=E2=80=A6 the SWG site is= completely down and cannot > be reached at the moment. > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Fe= lagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionw= ritersguild.org --001a11c341f004f57104e2fa9193 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Rhapsy! I noticed all of my Bluehost sites were blipping in and = out this morning but had no idea the issue was that severe.

<= div>Hopefully it will be back up soon.

Dawn
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:14 PM, rhapsody_the_b= ard <rhapsody74@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
=

Hi all,

Last night our ho= st Bluehost was performing maintenance and apparently ran into a heap of tr= oubles. The issue that arose is considered as a rare occurrence, but it did= escalate since their network is experiencing issues and they haven't s= olved it as of yet. But they are working very hard on this; cancelling all = leaves and calling in as many people as they can to get everything back up = and running.

How does this affect us? Well=E2=80=A6 the SWG site= is completely down and cannot be reached at the moment.

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_l= oremaster/
http= ://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001a11c341f004f57104e2fa9193-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3532 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96131 invoked by uid 102); 2 Aug 2013 20:14:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m7.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2013 20:14:42 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 9091 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2013 20:14:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wi0-f176.google.com) (209.85.212.176) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2013 20:14:42 -0000 X-Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id f14so946375wiw.3 for ; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:14:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.212.70 with SMTP id ni6mr33900wic.11.1375474481772; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from [10.0.0.11] (D4CC9DFD.cm-2.dynamic.ziggo.nl. [212.204.157.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nb12sm5464017wic.7.2013.08.02.13.14.39 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FC12DE.6060904@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 22:13:18 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] SWG site is down... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=RK2ICCUhSZCDplacm6vtYRe2--5NQA8egIgx_Nu7OgorxA7SHgepSWY X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Well, there is some news to report! The site is back up, but please expect intermittent access and slowness until services are fully restored by our host. They have stressed that no data was lost, so please no worries about that! or some geek tech talk... Dawn, apparently there were problems with two core switches in their data center, then they also reported issues with routers ect ect. I can see how this could have escalated and that they wanted to investigate this thoroughly.. Rhapsody On 2-8-2013 19:48, Dawn Felagund wrote: > Thank you, Rhapsy! I noticed all of my Bluehost sites were blipping in > and out this morning but had no idea the issue was that severe. > > > Hopefully it will be back up soon. > > Dawn > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:14 PM, rhapsody_the_bard > wrote: > > __ > > Hi all, > > Last night our host Bluehost was performing maintenance and > apparently ran into a heap of troubles. The issue that arose is > considered as a rare occurrence, but it did escalate since their > network is experiencing issues and they haven't solved it as of yet. > But they are working very hard on this; cancelling all leaves and > calling in as many people as they can to get everything back up and > running. > > How does this affect us? Well… the SWG site is completely down and > cannot be reached at the moment. > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3533 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46022 invoked by uid 102); 2 Aug 2013 21:33:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m10.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2013 21:33:42 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 23636 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2013 21:33:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f180.google.com) (209.85.217.180) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2013 21:33:42 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f180.google.com with SMTP id a16so788786lbj.25 for ; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:33:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.72.67 with SMTP id b3mr4274983lbv.35.1375479219192; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:33:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.51.14 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 17:33:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c341f04189c404e2fdb61e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: August 2013 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=dyfjonzO1Ct60a71ZSP-K0r6lqjT_0kRv7icjCO6PY_KOUAOpsDn X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001a11c341f04189c404e2fdb61e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I finally hit our web server at a good "blink on" moment (the site appears to me to be up now more than it's down--a good sign, I hope!) and managed to get the August 2013 newsletter uploaded. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php We're in the midst of a busy time here at the SWG! August is, as it has always been, our annual Akallabeth in August challenge. During this time, we encourage our members to read and write stories related to the Second Age. As we have in years past, we've compiled a list in the newsletter of all of the Second Age stories we could find on the archive. As in years past, if you have written a Second Age story and do not see it on the list, *please* let us know so that we can add it. Putting this list together is a big task every year, and we often miss a few stories. Also, don't miss our 2009 Akallabeth in August collection that journeys through the whole Second Age through story, poetry, and art: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabeth-in-august/ And, of course, if you've ever wanted to try your hand at Second Age fiction (or if you love the Second Age and want to show it some more love!), we encourage you to take the leap this month. Many of our authors have in the past (including me!) and produced some really wonderful Second Age stories for our archive. We are also in the middle of the Season of Writing Dangerously, and it is not too late to sign up, if you'd like to set a creative goal for yourself this season. And, in July, the archive participated in the International Day of Femslash, and the stories created for that event are available to read on the archive. In this month's newsletter, we have quite a few goodies. Oshun's biography this month is on Denethor of the Nandor, an intriguing character so beloved by his people that they refused to take a new king after he died. Yet, like many Silm characters, Tolkien left large swaths of Denethor's life unexplored, and this month's biography is full of possible story ideas as a result. For the podfic this month, grey_gazania has recorded selections from Elleth's lovely ficlet collection "Many Journeys." And, of course, we have a list of stories added and updated during July, interesting articles from other sites, and announcements from groups outside of the SWG. Many thanks go to those who create the content for the newsletter--Oshun, grey_gazania, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica. Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a11c341f04189c404e2fdb61e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

I finally hit our web server at a good "bl= ink on" moment (the site appears to me to be up now more than it's= down--a good sign, I hope!) and managed to get the August 2013 newsletter = uploaded.


We're in the midst of a = busy time here at the SWG! August is, as it has always been, our annual Aka= llabeth in August challenge. During this time, we encourage our members to = read and write stories related to the Second Age. As we have in years past,= we've compiled a list in the newsletter of all of the Second Age stori= es we could find on the archive. As in years past, if you have written a Se= cond Age story and do not see it on the list, please=C2=A0let us kno= w so that we can add it. Putting this list together is a big task every yea= r, and we often miss a few stories. Also, don't miss our 2009 Akallabet= h in August collection that journeys through the whole Second Age through s= tory, poetry, and art:=C2=A0http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/akallabe= th-in-august/

And, of course, if you've e= ver wanted to try your hand at Second Age fiction (or if you love the Secon= d Age and want to show it some more love!), we encourage you to take the le= ap this month. Many of our authors have in the past (including me!) and pro= duced some really wonderful Second Age stories for our archive.
=
We are also in the middle of the Season of Writing Dangerous= ly, and it is not too late to sign up, if you'd like to set a creative = goal for yourself this season. And, in July, the archive participated in th= e International Day of Femslash, and the stories created for that event are= available to read on the archive.

In this month&= #39;s newsletter, we have quite a few goodies. Oshun's biography this m= onth is on Denethor of the Nandor, an intriguing character so beloved by hi= s people that they refused to take a new king after he died. Yet, like many= Silm characters, Tolkien left large swaths of Denethor's life unexplor= ed, and this month's biography is full of possible story ideas as a res= ult. For the podfic this month, grey_gazania has recorded selections from E= lleth's lovely ficlet collection "Many Journeys." And, of cou= rse, we have a list of stories added and updated during July, interesting a= rticles from other sites, and announcements from groups outside of the SWG.=

Many thanks go to those who create the content f= or the newsletter--Oshun, grey_gazania, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica.<= /div>

Enjoy!

--001a11c341f04189c404e2fdb61e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3534 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55154 invoked by uid 102); 1 Sep 2013 21:00:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m8.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2013 21:00:23 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 13101 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2013 21:00:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oa0-f47.google.com) (209.85.219.47) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2013 21:00:23 -0000 X-Received: by mail-oa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id g12so4533005oah.34 for ; Sun, 01 Sep 2013 14:00:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.230.163 with SMTP id sz3mr14318667obc.81.1378069223185; Sun, 01 Sep 2013 14:00:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.76.104.198 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Sep 2013 14:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 17:00:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, glorfindel_of_imladris@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotrallslash@yahoogroups.com, LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2f63a8622bb04e558bee9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Red Subject: Sultry in September Story Reveal X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=wcl5W2NxE1v9LUgcqr9E7U9uH1HUGZjgG9u0BbPMlJg7cHFI_erC X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --001a11c2f63a8622bb04e558bee9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 They're here! They're here! The Sultry in September stories are here! We have 46 stories on Archive of Our Own from our 2013 Sultry in September fic exchange. Come on over and check them out. There is something for every slash reader: slash and femslash, every rating, LoTR and Silm alike. Just head on over to the new AO3 collectionand don't forget to drop the writers a line or two after you read them! Red The Slashy Mod --001a11c2f63a8622bb04e558bee9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
They're here! They're here! The Sultry in September stories are here!

We have 46 stories on Archive of Our Own from our 2013 Sultry in September fic exchange. Come on over and check them out. There is something for every slash reader: slash and femslash, every rating, LoTR and Silm alike.

Just head on over to the new AO3 collection and don't forget to drop the writers a line or two after you read them!

Red
The Slashy Mod
--001a11c2f63a8622bb04e558bee9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3535 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81401 invoked by uid 102); 1 Sep 2013 21:18:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.36) by m7.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2013 21:18:15 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 9830 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2013 21:18:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f171.google.com) (209.85.217.171) by mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2013 21:18:15 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id u14so3307703lbd.2 for ; Sun, 01 Sep 2013 14:18:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.42.103 with SMTP id n7mr17971560lbl.6.1378070294341; Sun, 01 Sep 2013 14:18:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.51.14 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Sep 2013 14:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 17:18:14 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133659c5eacae04e558fe84 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: September 2013 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=xMuR_A_go4aQyFsYf4ZnzJbR5l2FBNZVbYGCtiAjdyMFpMX-c5cG X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001a1133659c5eacae04e558fe84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Our September newsletter has been published *on time* for once! \0/ Don't get too used to it, though, as I'll be back in grad school soon and back to my usual act of attempting last-minute feats whilst flying around by the seat of my pants. However, this month, it is on time and can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/september2013.php This month's newsletter includes a biography of Annael, written by Silver Trails. Annael is one of those characters I call "index characters" because I always have to look up in the index exactly who they are. But one of the brilliant things about the Silm is that so many of those "index characters" were developed by Tolkien, just to the point where they become intriguing. In her bio of Annael, Silver Trails presents the facts about him from various texts--I won't be forgetting who he is anytime soon!--and tempts us with some of the "what ifs" that form such a crucial jumping-off point for fanfic. We have had a busy summer here at the SWG. The Season of Writing Dangerously is still in full swing, though entering its final month, and we had our annual Akallabeth in August challenge last month. Every year, we make a heroic effort to list every single last Second Age story on the archive. We almost always fall a little bit shy in this and overlook a few stories. The stories we overlooked this time around are listed in the newsletter and have been added to the master list. Finally, Yahoo! Groups has made some pretty major changes that are impacting some of our members in a major [bad] way. I share what I know about this in the newsletter as well. (I will be sending an announcement to the group shortly about it as well.) You will also find a list of the stories added and updated last month on the archive, as well as our group's current challenges. We're not the only group that's been busy, and our Around the World and Web section includes many announcements of challenges, Big Bangs, and ficswap reveals to keep you busy, whether you want something to read or need inspiration to write. We've also included a list of interesting articles and resources related to Tolkien. As always, the newsletter is very much a collective effort, with my part primarily putting together the content that our wonderful contributors work to put together each month. Many, many thanks to Silver Trails, Rhapsody, and Russandol, who have contributed to this month's newsletter. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a1133659c5eacae04e558fe84 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

Our September newsletter has b= een published on time=C2=A0for once! \0/ Don't get too used to i= t, though, as I'll be back in grad school soon and back to my usual act= of attempting last-minute feats whilst flying around by the seat of my pan= ts. However, this month, it is on time and can be found here:

This month's newsletter includes a biogra= phy of Annael, written by Silver Trails. Annael is one of those characters = I call "index characters" because I always have to look up in the= index exactly who they are. But one of the brilliant things about the Silm= is that so many of those "index characters" were developed by To= lkien, just to the point where they become intriguing. In her bio of Annael= , Silver Trails presents the facts about him from various texts--I won'= t be forgetting who he is anytime soon!--and tempts us with some of the &qu= ot;what ifs" that form such a crucial jumping-off point for fanfic.

We have had a busy summer here at the SWG. The Seas= on of Writing Dangerously is still in full swing, though entering its final= month, and we had our annual Akallabeth in August challenge last month. Ev= ery year, we make a heroic effort to list every single last Second Age stor= y on the archive. We almost always fall a little bit shy in this and overlo= ok a few stories. The stories we overlooked this time around are listed in = the newsletter and have been added to the master list. Finally, Yahoo! Grou= ps has made some pretty major changes that are impacting some of our member= s in a major [bad] way. I share what I know about this in the newsletter as= well. (I will be sending an announcement to the group shortly about it as = well.) You will also find a list of the stories added and updated last mont= h on the archive, as well as our group's current challenges.

We're not the only group that's been busy, and our = Around the World and Web section includes many announcements of challenges,= Big Bangs, and ficswap reveals to keep you busy, whether you want somethin= g to read or need inspiration to write. We've also included a list of i= nteresting articles and resources related to Tolkien.

=
As always, the newsletter is very much a collective effort, with my pa= rt primarily putting together the content that our wonderful contributors w= ork to put together each month. Many, many thanks to Silver Trails, Rhapsod= y, and Russandol, who have contributed to this month's newsletter.

All the best,

--001a1133659c5eacae04e558fe84-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3536 Return-Path: X-Sender: DawnFelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1165 invoked by uid 102); 1 Sep 2013 21:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2013 21:23:19 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 26979 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2013 21:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ng25-vm10.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (66.196.80.43) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2013 21:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.164.125] by ng25.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2013 21:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from [10.193.94.46] by tg6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2013 21:23:19 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2013 21:23:17 -0000 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Announce: yes X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "Dawn F" Subject: Changes to Yahoo! Groups That Are Impacting Some SWG Members X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=NG3jtT8LjO1FGKM1v_uzxrThI7wyWBSH8oGOMFhsWMAxCSVTSgfD X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund Hi, all, As some of you have noticed by now, Yahoo! has implemented change= s to Yahoo! Groups that are impacting some members in a major way. Unfortun= ately, so far, the changes have not been good. There has been very little = official information from Yahoo! to group owners and moderators about the c= hanges, but the short form of what appears to be going on is that Yahoo! is= rolling out a new format called Neo. This Neo format appears to be motivat= ed by allowing Yahoo! to compete with more cutting-edge social networking s= ites like Facebook, Tumblr, and Twitter. So far, Neo has been rolled out fo= r only some members, so some of you, when visiting our group page, will see= the old format. Others of you will see the Neo format. The trouble with N= eo is that it is, from what I've heard (since I am one of the lucky ones st= ill on the old format), very confusing to use and extremely buggy. I have h= eard reports ranging from owners and moderators not being able to access mo= derator functions, to an inability to search the message archive, to a comp= lete lack of functionality in Chrome. And there is no way to set the displa= y back to the old-fangled, comfortable, and familiar Classic view, so if yo= u're on Neo, you're stuck with it, at least at the present moment. I wish = I could say that we mod-types have a magic ring to toss into a volcano and = make this whole mess just go away. Unfortunately, this is way over our head= s, and Yahoo! has not been particularly forthcoming as far as what their lo= ng-term plans concerning the new format are. Several of our moderators hav= e been ported over to the Neo format, which means that their moderator func= tions, at the present moment, are largely inaccessible. I have not been swi= tched over yet, thankfully, and so I am able to function fully on the group= s I mod. If you have been switched over to the Neo format and you need help= with settings that you cannot currently access in Neo (such as changing yo= ur message format), please contact us, and we mod-types who are on the old = format will do our best to help. For those of you who want to learn more o= r just write a good old-fashioned letter of complaint to Yahoo!, I can offe= r the following links: This group is available to support mods and members= who are struggling with Neo and is working to persuade Yahoo! to offer the= Classic view as an option going forward: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/gro= up/modsandmembers/ This page is Yahoo!'s official feedback page, where you= can report bugs and other problems with Neo, if you have any (and they act= ually are responding to people, so this seems a good route to take): http:= //yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451 As we hear and learn more and gain a g= reater understanding of how our group will be affected by this long-term, w= e'll keep everyone in the loop. In the meantime and as always, please do no= t hesitate to contact the mods with questions or if you need help. Our mod = team can be reached at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org. Best= regards, Dawn From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3537 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29702 invoked by uid 102); 5 Sep 2013 16:16:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m10.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2013 16:16:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 21504 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2013 16:16:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f181.google.com) (209.85.217.181) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2013 16:16:38 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f181.google.com with SMTP id u14so1804524lbd.26 for ; Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:16:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.87.143 with SMTP id ay15mr8144016lab.2.1378397798040; Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:16:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.51.14 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Sep 2013 09:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 12:16:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2409c1c895404e5a53f2c X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Tolkien Writing Contest on TORn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Z3rnWkrqSTzAPsJ9Ei86mWzPKsAQCS5fGMLIDWkqdOcybGhmjS0Y X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001a11c2409c1c895404e5a53f2c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 TORn is hosting a contest to rewrite passages of Tolkien in the style of another writer. This month's prompt is to rewrite a passage from *The Hobbit * in the style of Dr. Seuss. http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/09/04/78302-calling-all-writers-submissions-for-our-rewrite-tolkien-contest-are-now-open/ I just wanted to let everyone know in case anyone was interested in participating! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a11c2409c1c895404e5a53f2c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
TORn is hosting a contest to rewrite passages of Tolkien i= n the style of another writer. This month's prompt is to rewrite a pass= age from The Hobbit=C2=A0in the style of Dr. Seuss.

http://ww= w.theonering.net/torwp/2013/09/04/78302-calling-all-writers-submissions-for= -our-rewrite-tolkien-contest-are-now-open/

I = just wanted to let everyone know in case anyone was interested in participa= ting! :)

--001a11c2409c1c895404e5a53f2c-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3538 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77525 invoked by uid 102); 18 Sep 2013 01:26:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2013 01:26:57 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 5736 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2013 01:26:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f52.google.com) (209.85.215.52) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2013 01:26:57 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f52.google.com with SMTP id ev20so4917766lab.25 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2013 18:26:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.3.42 with SMTP id 10mr14299008laz.22.1379467616625; Tue, 17 Sep 2013 18:26:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.51.14 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Sep 2013 18:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 21:26:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013d14b244a73204e69e5529 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Setting Up an SWG "Satellite" Group on Tumblr X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=tDe5FJ179tzLoNa_kvVJAo9y8xsVN0SjVIdtJdUSTxz1t7toQEbT X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --089e013d14b244a73204e69e5529 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, The SWG moderators have recently been discussing the possibility of setting up a "satellite group" on Tumblr. Like our current satellite groups on LiveJournal, Dreamwidth, and Yahoo! Groups, this group would be run under the SWG guidelines as a space for the *Silmarillion *fandom. The problem is that none of the SWG moderators have much experience with Tumblr! While we all have accounts there, none of us are heavy users of the site and so feel woefully unprepared to make the best decisions in getting the group set up. We are seeking volunteers to discuss setting up a Tumblr satellite group for the SWG. No particular experience is necessary--just a willingness to help us iron our the particulars and probably answer the occasional silly question! :) We will also eventually be seeking moderators for the Tumblr group and will give strong preference to those who have helped to get the group set up. If you're interested in helping out with this, please comment on our LJ or DW posts with your email address, as well as your preference for how we hold the discussion (email, LiveJournal, Yahoo! mailing list, etc.). http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/221535.html http://silwritersguild.dreamwidth.org/6069.html If there is a particular venue where you *will not* participate in discussion, please let us know that as well. *All comments are screened*and we will not unscreen any comment with personal information in it. You may also email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org, if you prefer. Thanks, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e013d14b244a73204e69e5529 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,

The SWG moderators h= ave recently been discussing the possibility of setting up a "satellit= e group" on Tumblr. Like our current satellite groups on LiveJournal, = Dreamwidth, and Yahoo! Groups, this group would be run under the SWG guidel= ines as a space for the Silmarillion fandom.

The problem is that none of the SWG moderators have much experience with= Tumblr! While we all have accounts there, none of us are heavy users of th= e site and so feel woefully unprepared to make the best decisions in gettin= g the group set up.

We are seeking volunteers to = discuss setting up a Tumblr satellite group for the SWG. No particular expe= rience is necessary--just a willingness to help us iron our the particulars= and probably answer the occasional silly question! :) We will also eventua= lly be seeking moderators for the Tumblr group and will give strong prefere= nce to those who have helped to get the group set up.

=
If you're interested in helping out with this, please comment on o= ur LJ or DW posts with your email address, as well as your preference for h= ow we hold the discussion (email, LiveJournal, Yahoo! mailing list, etc.).<= /div>

http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/221535.html

= If there is a particular venue where you will not participate in dis= cussion, please let us know that as well. All comments are screened = and we will not unscreen any comment with personal information in it. You m= ay also email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild.org, if you prefer.
--089e013d14b244a73204e69e5529-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3539 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94417 invoked by uid 102); 24 Sep 2013 01:45:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.36) by m9.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2013 01:45:06 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 26442 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2013 01:45:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f176.google.com) (209.85.217.176) by mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2013 01:45:06 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id y6so3251205lbh.21 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 18:45:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.146.33 with SMTP id sz1mr21945094lbb.14.1379987105534; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 18:45:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.51.14 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 18:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 21:45:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3441d03857bd04e7174969 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Season of Writing Dangerously Closes Today! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=87tAbpDEsCRCzh0z43SlFE-X8fjGFa0y0rWddbq21TahJhqdBvrK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --047d7b3441d03857bd04e7174969 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I just wanted to remind our Season of Writing Dangerously participants that the event ends today, September 23. If you met your goal, you can now declare your victory and claim your prize! In addition to lovely winners' banners (most of which were made by Lyra--thank you so much, Lyra!), this year's SoWD winners get to request a custom piece of writing or art of their choosing! More details are available here: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/222171.html Of course, artists and writers--whether or not you participated in the SoWD--are welcome to make someone happy by claiming a request for a story or art. Instructions are at the link above! Congrats to our winners and many thanks to this year's participants and volunteers! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --047d7b3441d03857bd04e7174969 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

I just wanted to remind our Se= ason of Writing Dangerously participants that the event ends today, Septemb= er 23. If you met your goal, you can now declare your victory and claim you= r prize! In addition to lovely winners' banners (most of which were mad= e by Lyra--thank you so much, Lyra!), this year's SoWD winners get to r= equest a custom piece of writing or art of their choosing!

<= /div>
More details are available here:


Of course= , artists and writers--whether or not you participated in the SoWD--are wel= come to make someone happy by claiming a request for a story or art. Instru= ctions are at the link above!

Congrats to our winn= ers and many thanks to this year's participants and volunteers!
<= div>
Dawn
--047d7b3441d03857bd04e7174969-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3540 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67225 invoked by uid 102); 2 Oct 2013 23:50:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2013 23:50:20 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 25090 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2013 23:50:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f176.google.com) (209.85.217.176) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2013 23:50:20 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id y6so1345456lbh.7 for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2013 16:50:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.37.103 with SMTP id x7mr4144685laj.28.1380757820399; Wed, 02 Oct 2013 16:50:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.51.14 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 16:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 19:50:20 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160b5e467e80204e7cabb4a X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: October 2013 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8tn91FybBBwbs3OGTaPt3x_BQeReUykdfk1Lpeiq8m9Hr1wZqkRQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --089e0160b5e467e80204e7cabb4a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The October newsletter has been posted! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/newsletter.php We have a couple pieces of important group news this month. Firstly, if you met your goal for the Season of Writing Dangerously, please don't forget to claim your prize! (Links and details can be found in the newsletter.) If you'd like to help create stories and art for our SoWD winners--whether or not you participated yourself--please stop by the winner's page and claim a challenge or two and brighten someone's day! We also have several issues up for discussion. We are in the process of setting up a Tumblr "satellite" for the SWG and welcome volunteers familiar with Tumblr who would like to help our Tumblr-illiterate moderator team get this off the ground. We are also undertaking revisions and additions to our Site Etiquette and FAQs in two key areas: our image use policy and our policy on multiple accounts. We are seeking member comments, concerns, and questions through October 15. Again, the newsletter has all of the relevant links. Onto more exciting stuff--this month's character biography, in honor of October and Halloween, documents a character involved in one of Tolkien's scariest tales: Edrahil. Edrahil followed Finrod and Beren into the dungeons of Sauron (and eventually the belly of a werewolf!) in a story of doomed heroism typical of the First Age. As well as a lively recounting of this episode and speculation about Edrahil's role at various points throughout, Oshun shares information she gathered about the origin of the name *Edrahil* that might illuminate this minor character even further. As always engaging and educational, Oshun's biography of Edrahil deserves a read! Continuing the spooky theme, the Featured Podfic returns this month with Oshun's creepily comic piece "Do You Believe in Ghosts?" Amrod and Amras may come to rue their request to sleep in the back garden when they get to hear all the mysterious noises that fill the nights in Valinor. If you're looking for something to read, we had quite a number of stories added and updated on the archive last month! If you're looking for something to *write,* we introduce a new challenge this month that asks you to write about a turning point in the life of a character and are revisiting the "Nature of Fear" challenge in honor of Halloween. And, finally, our Around the World and Web section includes articles and announcements from beyond the SWG. As always, the newsletter would not be possible without the wonderful volunteers who create content for it (and therefore reduce me to the role of editor and coder! :) Many thanks to Oshun, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica for their help on this month's newsletter. Best wishes, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e0160b5e467e80204e7cabb4a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

The October newsletter has bee= n posted!


We have a couple pieces of i= mportant group news this month. Firstly, if you met your goal for the Seaso= n of Writing Dangerously, please don't forget to claim your prize! (Lin= ks and details can be found in the newsletter.) If you'd like to help c= reate stories and art for our SoWD winners--whether or not you participated= yourself--please stop by the winner's page and claim a challenge or tw= o and brighten someone's day!

We also have se= veral issues up for discussion. We are in the process of setting up a Tumbl= r "satellite" for the SWG and welcome volunteers familiar with Tu= mblr who would like to help our Tumblr-illiterate moderator team get this o= ff the ground. We are also undertaking revisions and additions to our Site = Etiquette and FAQs in two key areas: our image use policy and our policy on= multiple accounts. We are seeking member comments, concerns, and questions= through October 15. Again, the newsletter has all of the relevant links.

Onto more exciting stuff--this month's charact= er biography, in honor of October and Halloween, documents a character invo= lved in one of Tolkien's scariest tales: Edrahil. Edrahil followed Finr= od and Beren into the dungeons of Sauron (and eventually the belly of a wer= ewolf!) in a story of doomed heroism typical of the First Age. As well as a= lively recounting of this episode and speculation about Edrahil's role= at various points throughout, Oshun shares information she gathered about = the origin of the name Edrahil=C2=A0that might illuminate this minor= character even further. As always engaging and educational, Oshun's bi= ography of Edrahil deserves a read!

Continuing th= e spooky theme, the Featured Podfic returns this month with Oshun's cre= epily comic piece "Do You Believe in Ghosts?" Amrod and Amras may= come to rue their request to sleep in the back garden when they get to hea= r all the mysterious noises that fill the nights in Valinor.
If you're looking for something to read, we had quite a num= ber of stories added and updated on the archive last month! If you're l= ooking for something to write,=C2=A0we introduce a new challenge thi= s month that asks you to write about a turning point in the life of a chara= cter and are revisiting the "Nature of Fear" challenge in honor o= f Halloween. And, finally, our Around the World and Web section includes ar= ticles and announcements from beyond the SWG.

As = always, the newsletter would not be possible without the wonderful voluntee= rs who create content for it (and therefore reduce me to the role of editor= and coder! :) Many thanks to Oshun, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica for = their help on this month's newsletter.

Best w= ishes,

--089e0160b5e467e80204e7cabb4a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3541 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52041 invoked by uid 102); 7 Oct 2013 15:11:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.33) by m7.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2013 15:11:43 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 27038 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2013 15:11:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f173.google.com) (209.85.217.173) by mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2013 15:11:42 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f173.google.com with SMTP id o14so5769774lbi.32 for ; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 08:11:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.155.70 with SMTP id vu6mr1822084lbb.41.1381158700443; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 08:11:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.51.14 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 11:11:40 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0115fe1eb7f44204e8281183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: PHP Upgrade on the SWG Website X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=_AWYzcj1j7v23nv5yP_m_j9uSYdgVNLosxN7n3H3Wg6niH-6LssK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --089e0115fe1eb7f44204e8281183 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Our webhost has upgraded the SWG website to a newer version of PHP. This shouldn't affect visitors' use of the site in any way, but if you run into any problems accessing or using the site, please contact us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org, and we will do our best to resolve it. Thanks, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e0115fe1eb7f44204e8281183 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

Our webhost has upgraded the S= WG website to a newer version of PHP. This shouldn't affect visitors= 9; use of the site in any way, but if you run into any problems accessing o= r using the site, please contact us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguil= d DOT org, and we will do our best to resolve it.

Thanks,

--089e0115fe1eb7f44204e8281183-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3542 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61173 invoked by uid 102); 29 Oct 2013 01:19:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m12.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2013 01:19:33 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 21355 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2013 01:19:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-lb0-f178.google.com) (209.85.217.178) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2013 01:19:33 -0000 X-Received: by mail-lb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id o14so3590543lbi.9 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:19:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.4.38 with SMTP id h6mr17156235lah.12.1383009572509; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:19:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.51.14 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 21:19:32 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01493d564a5ee804e9d702ed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: MOD POST: Updates to the SWG Site Etiquette and Terms of Service X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=umsRrNzXVa3ATxKBi8rSWdauEH9MDAueRPCg6qu5DCZzMqGN97Co X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --089e01493d564a5ee804e9d702ed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Over the past few months, various changes to our Site Etiquette and Terms of Service have been proposed and discussed. When the SWG moderators detect something missing or in need of revision, we mods discuss it first and draft a revision or addition to the existing Site Etiquette and ToS. This is then put before the members for discussion and comment. Based on these discussions, I have finally gotten around to making the necessary changes. (This took pretty much a full evening and was decidedly Not Fun! But it is done now! :) The link below has full details on the updates made: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/225085.html Updates to the translated ToS have not yet been made but will be done within the next few days. Thank you, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e01493d564a5ee804e9d702ed Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

Over the past few mont= hs, various changes to our=C2=A0Site Etiquet= te and Terms of Service=C2=A0have been proposed and = discussed. When the SWG moderators detect something missing or in need of r= evision, we mods discuss it first and draft a revision or addition to the e= xisting Site Etiquette and ToS. This is then put before the members for dis= cussion and comment. Based on these discussions, I have finally gotten arou= nd to making the necessary changes. (This took pretty much a full evening a= nd was decidedly Not Fun! But it is done now! :) The link below has full de= tails on the updates made:

ht= tp://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/225085.html

Up= dates to the translated ToS have not yet been made but will be done within = the next few days.

Thank you,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
<= a href=3D"http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/">http://themidhavens.= net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--089e01493d564a5ee804e9d702ed-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3543 Return-Path: X-Sender: elliefin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43461 invoked by uid 102); 29 Oct 2013 01:31:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2013 01:31:02 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 7591 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2013 01:31:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wi0-f174.google.com) (209.85.212.174) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2013 01:31:01 -0000 X-Received: by mail-wi0-f174.google.com with SMTP id cb5so4498349wib.1 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:31:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.81.104 with SMTP id z8mr2655353wix.4.1383010261239; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:31:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.87.39 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:31:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 21:31:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04426b64578e7c04e9d72ba8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Elliefin Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] MOD POST: Updates to the SWG Site Etiquette and Terms of Service X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=484523282; y=F5epp0X_E1C9pNnFV1Pod_Qg3s5ulRjtdGGndU89wfCyUrVvjfQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 --f46d04426b64578e7c04e9d72ba8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for all of your hard work! Ellie On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:19 PM,= Dawn Felagund wrote: > ** > > > Hi, all, > > Over= the past few months, various changes to our Site Etiquette and Terms > of = Service have been > prop= osed and discussed. When the SWG moderators detect something missing or > i= n need of revision, we mods discuss it first and draft a revision or > addi= tion to the existing Site Etiquette and ToS. This is then put before > the = members for discussion and comment. Based on these discussions, I have > fi= nally gotten around to making the necessary changes. (This took pretty > mu= ch a full evening and was decidedly Not Fun! But it is done now! :) The > l= ink below has full details on the updates made: > > http://silwritersguild.= livejournal.com/225085.html > > Updates to the translated ToS have not yet = been made but will be done > within the next few days. > > Thank you, > > D= awn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorema= ster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > > > --f46d04426b64578e7c04e9d72ba8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for all of your hard work!

Ellie=


O= n Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.com= > wrote:
=
=A0
=

Hi, all,

Over t= he past few months, various changes to our=A0Site Etiquette and Terms of Service=A0have been proposed and discussed. When the = SWG moderators detect something missing or in need of revision, we mods dis= cuss it first and draft a revision or addition to the existing Site Etiquet= te and ToS. This is then put before the members for discussion and comment.= Based on these discussions, I have finally gotten around to making the nec= essary changes. (This took pretty much a full evening and was decidedly Not= Fun! But it is done now! :) The link below has full details on the updates= made:
=
http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/225085.html

=

--f46d04426b64578e7c04e9d72ba8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3544 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15007 invoked by uid 102); 29 Oct 2013 01:35:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.37) by m10.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2013 01:35:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 30747 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2013 01:35:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f52.google.com) (209.85.215.52) by mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2013 01:35:38 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f52.google.com with SMTP id eh20so5951151lab.11 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:35:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.172.137 with SMTP id bc9mr13383168lbc.21.1383010537083; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:35:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.51.14 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:35:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 21:35:37 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c26456c8962104e9d73be8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] MOD POST: Updates to the SWG Site Etiquette and Terms of Service X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=mwQS_72x-mr5IPZ2vYM30qfGEBB2bz8Wq6d3HDDI8dXQI8p4ylBg X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001a11c26456c8962104e9d73be8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You're welcome! It was very much a collaborative effort. (As my comods can = attest, who have spent the past several months commenting on endless drafts= of this stuff.) I think we are all glad to have neglected housekeeping be= hind us so that we can move on to the more enjoyable parts of running a fan= dom website! :) Dawn On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Elliefin wrote: > ** > > > Thanks for all of your hard work! > > Ellie = > > > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Hi, all, >> >> Over the past few months, various = changes to our Site Etiquette and >> Terms of Service have >> been proposed and discussed. When the= SWG moderators detect something >> missing or in need of revision, we mods= discuss it first and draft a >> revision or addition to the existing Site = Etiquette and ToS. This is then >> put before the members for discussion an= d comment. Based on these >> discussions, I have finally gotten around to m= aking the necessary changes. >> (This took pretty much a full evening and w= as decidedly Not Fun! But it is >> done now! :) The link below has full det= ails on the updates made: >> >> http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/2250= 85.html >> >> Updates to the translated ToS have not yet been made but will= be done >> within the next few days. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Dawn >> >> -- = >> ~oOo~ >> Dawn Felagund >> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ >>= http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org >> >> > > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Fela= gund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org --001a11c26456c8962104e9d73be8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You're welcome! It was very much a collaborative effor= t. (As my comods can attest, who have spent the past several months comment= ing on endless drafts of this stuff.)

I think we are all= glad to have neglected housekeeping behind us so that we can move on to th= e more enjoyable parts of running a fandom website! :)

Dawn


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Elliefin <elliefin@gmail.com> wrote:
=
=C2=A0
=

Thanks for all of your hard work!

Ellie
=

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Dawn Fe= lagund <DawnFelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
=
=C2=A0
=

Hi, all,
=
Over th= e past few months, various changes to our=C2=A0Site Etiquette and Terms of Service=C2=A0have been proposed and discussed. When= the SWG moderators detect something missing or in need of revision, we mod= s discuss it first and draft a revision or addition to the existing Site Et= iquette and ToS. This is then put before the members for discussion and com= ment. Based on these discussions, I have finally gotten around to making th= e necessary changes. (This took pretty much a full evening and was decidedl= y Not Fun! But it is done now! :) The link below has full details on the up= dates made:

http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/225085.= html

Updates to the translated ToS have not yet bee= n made but will be done within the next few days.

Th= ank you,

=
=

=



--
= ~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org<= /a>
--001a11c26456c8962104e9d73be8-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3545 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33488 invoked by uid 102); 3 Nov 2013 20:40:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m7.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2013 20:40:35 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 17405 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2013 20:40:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f46.google.com) (209.85.215.46) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2013 20:40:35 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f46.google.com with SMTP id hp15so4759536lab.5 for ; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:40:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.52.33 with SMTP id q1mr2069431lbo.30.1383511234514; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:40:34 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.93.35 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:40:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 15:40:34 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3c882ad144104ea4bcf95 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: November 2013 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=baSA-P1BhFgzWt-AcfPdnJipjsdPNoC5wxFo2e-RrZv7tvoS86Ww X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --001a11c3c882ad144104ea4bcf95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, The newsletter is a bit late this month due to your site owner crawling out from under her rock this weekend and actually trying to have a social life by hosting an ambitious party last night. Now that the guests have gone and the dishes are cleaned, I can now present the November newsletter: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/november2013.php As many of you have already seen, we have finally rolled out the various changes to our Site Etiquette and Terms of Service that we have been discussing over the past six months or so. This is not the most fun news but it is important, since we want all of our members to be aware of rule changes when they happen. The changes are explained fully in the newsletter but concern the requirement of having a working email address associated with your archive account, multiple accounts for a single member, and image use. If you use our archive, please familiarize yourself with these changes, if you have not already. We are also coming up on the Featured Podfic being one year old! But this means that we are running out of podfic recommendations from when the project first started, so if you have a favorite story on the archive you'd like to hear recorded, please suggest it so that we can work on producing the next round of podfics! (The recommendation form is here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/podfic/forms/request.php. And we also need readers, if you'd like to try your hand at recording a podfic: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/podfic/forms/reader.php.) Now onto more fun stuff ... our character biography this month is about Lalaith, the little sister of Turin who only lived to be three years old. Yet her character has an impact nonetheless (beyond her death sort of starting off the misery that is Turin's existence) in her role as a symbol of hope in one of the darkest times of the First Age. Oshun puts Lalaith's life beautifully into context to show how her famed laugher--and her loss--might have been perceived by the characters around her who lived to fight on after her death. Lalaith is a character who gets next to no fannish attention--there isn't a single story about her on the archive!--but Oshun has once again coaxed a minor character out of the shadows to reveal her importance. Our podfic this month is the brilliant "A Minor Talent" by Lyra (read by me). Lyra's story looks at three episodes in Fingon's life that are centered on a particular song by Rumil. Just as in the song, the Eldar catch their first glimpse of the Two Trees, Lyra's Fingon slowly comes to understand his place in his tumultuous family and sees himself as his own person, not a mere extension of his Uncle Feanor's family. I hope I have done justice in reading this story, which I love, and hope you will check out the story and the podfic. If you're looking for something to read, Rhapsody has compiled a list of the stories added to or updated on the archive within the past month, and Russandol has collected some interesting links to articles for our Around the World and Web section. If you're looking for something to write, we have our monthly challenges, as well as links to challenges going on in other groups beyond the SWG. Many, many thanks go to Oshun, Lyra, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica, who put together the newsletter content this month! Enjoy! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a11c3c882ad144104ea4bcf95 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,

The newsletter is a bit l= ate this month due to your site owner crawling out from under her rock this= weekend and actually trying to have a social life by hosting an ambitious = party last night. Now that the guests have gone and the dishes are cleaned,= I can now present the November newsletter:


<= /div>
As many of you have already seen, we have finally rolled out the = various changes to our Site Etiquette and Terms of Service that we have bee= n discussing over the past six months or so. This is not the most fun news = but it is important, since we want all of our members to be aware of rule c= hanges when they happen. The changes are explained fully in the newsletter = but concern the requirement of having a working email address associated wi= th your archive account, multiple accounts for a single member, and image u= se. If you use our archive, please familiarize yourself with these changes,= if you have not already.

We are also coming up o= n the Featured Podfic being one year old! But this means that we are runnin= g out of podfic recommendations from when the project first started, so if = you have a favorite story on the archive you'd like to hear recorded, p= lease suggest it so that we can work on producing the next round of podfics= ! (The recommendation form is here:=C2=A0http://www.silmarillionwritersgu= ild.org/podfic/forms/request.php. And we also need readers, if you'= d like to try your hand at recording a podfic:=C2=A0http://www.silmarillio= nwritersguild.org/podfic/forms/reader.php.)

N= ow onto more fun stuff ... our character biography this month is about Lala= ith, the little sister of Turin who only lived to be three years old. Yet h= er character has an impact nonetheless (beyond her death sort of starting o= ff the misery that is Turin's existence) in her role as a symbol of hop= e in one of the darkest times of the First Age. Oshun puts Lalaith's li= fe beautifully into context to show how her famed laugher--and her loss--mi= ght have been perceived by the characters around her who lived to fight on = after her death. Lalaith is a character who gets next to no fannish attenti= on--there isn't a single story about her on the archive!--but Oshun has= once again coaxed a minor character out of the shadows to reveal her impor= tance.

Our podfic this month is the brilliant &qu= ot;A Minor Talent" by Lyra (read by me). Lyra's story looks at thr= ee episodes in Fingon's life that are centered on a particular song by = Rumil. Just as in the song, the Eldar catch their first glimpse of the Two = Trees, Lyra's Fingon slowly comes to understand his place in his tumult= uous family and sees himself as his own person, not a mere extension of his= Uncle Feanor's family. I hope I have done justice in reading this stor= y, which I love, and hope you will check out the story and the podfic.

If you're looking for something to read, Rhapsody= has compiled a list of the stories added to or updated on the archive with= in the past month, and Russandol has collected some interesting links to ar= ticles for our Around the World and Web section. If you're looking for = something to write, we have our monthly challenges, as well as links to cha= llenges going on in other groups beyond the SWG.

= Many, many thanks go to Oshun, Lyra, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica, who= put together the newsletter content this month!

E= njoy!

--001a11c3c882ad144104ea4bcf95-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3546 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56597 invoked by uid 102); 3 Dec 2013 03:15:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2013 03:15:52 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 30235 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2013 03:15:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ie0-f180.google.com) (209.85.223.180) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2013 03:15:52 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ie0-f180.google.com with SMTP id tp5so22132577ieb.39 for ; Mon, 02 Dec 2013 19:15:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.43.8.66 with SMTP id or2mr43551582icb.19.1386040552018; Mon, 02 Dec 2013 19:15:52 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.42.46.68 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Dec 2013 19:15:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 22:15:51 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec50e5f29bf596704ec98b62e X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Dawn Felagund Subject: December 2013 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wsPPLtgPtEQdsklQh4-kLnpm4-zvNm5c7TSt-uiOK8WkUJJNsmo2 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund --bcaec50e5f29bf596704ec98b62e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Our December 2013 newsletter has been posted here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/december2013.php We have a lot to offer this month! Silver Trails has authored this month's biography about the characters Makar and Measse, who made their brief--but fascinating--appearance in *The Book of Lost Tales.* These characters represent a melding of Tolkien's legendarium with the Norse myths in a way that Tolkien kept only briefly before eliminating Makar and Measse entirely from the story. Silver Trails surveys what we know about these two characters, as well as the reason for their disappearance from the story. Our Featured Podfic this month is the "The Scent of Old Books" by downtide, read by Tanis. Maedhros and Fingon meet in a modern-day AU setting based on a real English bookshop. This is a lovely story beautifully read by Tanis. In news this month, we have lots going on as we prepare to move into the SWG's ninth (yes, I know ... o.O) year. First of all, we have been planning and working with a lovely group of volunteers for some months now to set up and draft guidelines for a satellite group on Tumblr. At last, our labors have paid off, and the SWG tumblr is open for business! (Follow us here: http://www.tumblr.com/follow/silmarillionwritersguild) We are accepting submissions of "SSPs" (links to your own stories that you'd like to promote), links to articles of interest to Silm fans, and fandom-related announcements. We will also post SWG-related announcements here. We also continue to seek more recommendations for our Featured Podfic (as well as readers!), and we are gearing up for another Back to Middle-earth Month this March and seek moderators and volunteers. If you're looking for something to read, the newsletter also contains a list of the stories posted to and updated on our archive during November, as well as several articles of interest. If you're looking for something to write, we continue our Turning Point challenge this month and, as we do annually, invite our members to write stories as gifts to those who have influenced them as fans and writers. We also have announcements from groups beyond the SWG. As always, the newsletter is made possible by the efforts of many volunteers. Thanks this month go to Silver Trails, Tanis, downtide, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica for their contributions! Happy reading! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --bcaec50e5f29bf596704ec98b62e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

Our December 2013 newsletter h= as been posted here:


We have a lot= to offer this month! Silver Trails has authored this month's biography= about the characters Makar and Measse, who made their brief--but fascinati= ng--appearance in The Book of Lost Tales.=C2=A0These characters repr= esent a melding of Tolkien's legendarium with the Norse myths in a way = that Tolkien kept only briefly before eliminating Makar and Measse entirely= from the story. Silver Trails surveys what we know about these two charact= ers, as well as the reason for their disappearance from the story.

Our Featured Podfic this month is the "The Scent of = Old Books" by downtide, read by Tanis. Maedhros and Fingon meet in a m= odern-day AU setting based on a real English bookshop. This is a lovely sto= ry beautifully read by Tanis.

In news this month,= we have lots going on as we prepare to move into the SWG's ninth (yes,= I know ... o.O) year. First of all, we have been planning and working with= a lovely group of volunteers for some months now to set up and draft guide= lines for a satellite group on Tumblr. At last, our labors have paid off, a= nd the SWG tumblr is open for business! (Follow us here:=C2=A0http://www.tumblr.com/= follow/silmarillionwritersguild) We are accepting submissions of "= SSPs" (links to your own stories that you'd like to promote), link= s to articles of interest to Silm fans, and fandom-related announcements. W= e will also post SWG-related announcements here. We also continue to seek m= ore recommendations for our Featured Podfic (as well as readers!), and we a= re gearing up for another Back to Middle-earth Month this March and seek mo= derators and volunteers.

If you're looking fo= r something to read, the newsletter also contains a list of the stories pos= ted to and updated on our archive during November, as well as several artic= les of interest. If you're looking for something to write, we continue = our Turning Point challenge this month and, as we do annually, invite our m= embers to write stories as gifts to those who have influenced them as fans = and writers. We also have announcements from groups beyond the SWG.
<= div>
As always, the newsletter is made possible by the effort= s of many volunteers. Thanks this month go to Silver Trails, Tanis, downtid= e, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica for their contributions!
Happy reading! :)

--bcaec50e5f29bf596704ec98b62e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3547 Return-Path: X-Sender: erfan.starled@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6652 invoked by uid 102); 8 Dec 2013 15:45:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.33) by m2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2013 15:45:23 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 19832 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2013 15:45:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm1-vm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.213.163) by mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2013 15:45:22 -0000 X-Received: from [66.196.81.173] by nm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2013 15:45:22 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.212.219] by tm19.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2013 15:45:22 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1028.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2013 15:45:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 351662.73765.bm@omp1028.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 19704 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Dec 2013 15:45:22 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ErUbEAgVM1lKchM7HjWfOAa.hB45DSOf1KX8RsCXj7qMaZb UzHYTk9KY_6UJuM_V0enjB3bHKzseY_yeOGPQTsSeNE0N3WuisKH5XowBomJ X1mprSGZA2XsNK_tXf0F1t.N_l_iNANUre0Yqtv2tAjTDcsZUKFZjnNTHaQj eVQIrhnCUb2XxE9090zEXEibsFZahLlpjYBEEKU3RksEyKwo5YQaG_rcXdhD 24T4XBkbuRsfApshqfSpVIgNfily6n.gn27K7BxUhMM2r0I02JQrFVelYR2A HMyJHXyeVpMvjhrjV00B.01VpAXEDwdRMldulaQ5GgagIfoBz4viUorJdRGt 1Zy.nvdQM6z9c9k9DKCCQnU13H6LwW2p9tLY1saZWUcdv_XhLuO8eITvnXj4 wjCkdpxvWWoAnEzTqkt6uduls98j0Gzkx5_9l9aQZ8H91tyt8hajA8GD80wX 1NOJvKu5egTO.cNzrXBKSO3K1jMh.Bo.sTcB3Nuagqzz4_BwJBRCps6wsF77 rokyZIvqD4tjaFZWSkzV5gSV0uoEqW2AFChPfnCbxvOnnvIzCQDB5PKfM404 xGzQ36VxjPZexQWMjtfbGs17suI9o2ktc.FshJhlpGfSv8JzRdxUW9VDDF33 dtbqz.G73bnYega6416hDJSpWpvOo8osifvqEc4EHiSEi0P_rGzg4mkcs8aJ milCth8RcV2.A341JWGRuvV_Wm2WK3sceWbjPhtnbTwPg890I47NZvQOshfK CTNZwKa8QxL_Q4.cLdAnSHyTuO3vDIJXEouOjx6QQG5eYbbfJma0SUljt76N P6fgAImyBfKSVpdoWRR1E1cFlDIGuwVTHJYCwCSKMAkHlB.mLOE5G07Kvutk lQ8sW_Ox.uDVI9Ejb2d_4qFwxk6IaqYfJHSCQyj3MGKjIEnaD1PCgaLQkBle .gcX3QTrDhYisF8cO3okd8yE4E4xbUX4Q0pF4lTRykubK.zJG3yERc7cKM0f Z2l6WalvOy_yoc6_H4iO7E6gLUtRfufv_48LC3DRt3falWNac1lv.grdeNZU MxJnCbCAtP4rgzA_m1rVCbOSlFvCrl0FFKnfJ_bzdQuJbCd4wBt_pTwmQxYT iQ6uWvMKPQ5I6OQuBJR4_ut3eOpSv2RZyKhLBAnGEdmOQ8HhPtyX2rh2MGcy f5H4OruHR5H2M9pocieua7q4KL0l67tX5AGPX4Xrk_wmhCRRb0D7qFVv0.3v TL0Jmti8FJTIRIhrHBVgEmAwPCG_v71xfLLnKEP13aBw86rfvhnwT6OPE.EB 3F_ds9CWWCQ5Z.F3p.HuKwGdtgWB7FUFvqtSWwIwcf9uYcvvl9U9ISuTgaKq 1Ul2.BXG3YNU2ZkFuBPcifwxG2izp8k7bxEnZLu1EX3xuHequpys5BmdHNb8 W2R5ywZrbgY7aMaf.r3WhGewAxUHaUvTOF8aFtcKI8dOtD4kaNahrdBrQ111 KEep6Uksph_gjhqLuXJRNDEmpRkUz74.BtO4e15bdz.qqqn3.zifszQhNqse IQZFNacrYXx.D09BqAN9X3QR02oMSxx_6KhaNm4LH4stTN09MuZCPcTTOOXn c0wMjVGPACYjqtX41dJr8sTF.ml65XW_uRhErsy5HG1ez9cKHAbmrS4MoyI7 vLxO8CIews_E03DI1CEeQEsZWfz_V0YQyPWohzbTE0ks7xNif49mTwc4Zd36 csioACtQ0wWEaY2kyPpoyC_98Ev4RDfXhFHM92rCnPEAHkXu1LGdP2tXp7_k UTCOJYeeR_qZdy9sCr6JWNFevuBM0bSnqMtsZVdtkiJkQSrFgIDqTBX0F2iP RbR2LSUdKy_EsZ..J25daB0RJAHoG.PY_Qp7E5K3Jr5aCTA3ERR0t6TrjjS3 E5vGiQuJJyFW3X6VzXu27vb0ALeliobjKC9xMrxqBfdTo.bJJPTehP8tR7Am m73pljS2HS2snzHJSNbqbRuvCJmLqir7XQHn4vy7Cj8w7D.ypnIWBGovfS2X bkrAD0rqDPoXMI.mOdrAZdoPkpyF6y.hojOwKh7FoZM4..NTzOyNPYF9RSwl 7QC.CP_WwCzxamI5a36VTUKytwu2qvx89LPSSlVnworV8M1x6Zy2T5x4kMIj r77v92jZRcXHLGJNAHnsnhyxpsneAC7nfQxKlahlrHve6DkbO_R7DsBmlkJW 0YbgmoBbWeDCAF_84EYwv X-Received: from [89.241.186.207] by web160202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Dec 2013 07:45:22 PST X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,SGkgUmVkCkkgZG9uJ3Qga25vdyBpZiB5b3UgZW5qb3llZCBvcmdhbml6aW5nIHRoaXMgc3dhcCBidXQgcGVvcGxlIHdobyBvZmZlciBzd2FwLW9jY2FzaW9ucyBvciB3ZWJzaXRlcyBnaXZlIHNvbWV0aGluZyBJIGhhdmUgYmVuZWZpdGVkIGZyb20gYSBsb3QuIEkgZW5kZWQgdXAgd3JpdGluZyBzdG9yaWVzIHRoYXQgYWRkZWQgbmV3IGRpbWVuc2lvbnMgdG8gbXkga25vd2xlZGdlIGFuZCBmcmllbmRzaGlwcyBhbmQgd3JpdGluZy4KSSBoYXZlIG5vdCB0YWtlbiBwYXJ0IHJlY2VudGx5IGJ1dCB3YW50ZWQgdG8BMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.169.609 References: Message-ID: <1386517522.23589.YahooMailNeo@web160202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 07:45:22 -0800 (PST) To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-125618876-684323495-1386517522=:23589" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: erfan starled Reply-To: erfan starled Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Sultry in September Story Reveal X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=310858615; y=CwD4uXnYSdQy0CVftRjGDQ9JxAHLz6lR_nLhrzBPXdeeK9vSRY-7kg X-Yahoo-Profile: erfan.starled ---125618876-684323495-1386517522=:23589 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Red I don't know if you enjoyed organizing this swap but people who offe= r swap-occasions or websites give something I have benefited from a lot. I = ended up writing stories that added new dimensions to my knowledge and frie= ndships and writing. I have not taken part recently but wanted to send this= generic appreciation - without archives and swaps and groups there would n= ot be any fanfic community to join. So. Thanks! Erfan =C2=A0 ~~~ My candl= e burns at both ends; It will not last the night; But ah, my foes, and oh, = my friends - It gives a lovely light! ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay ~ S=C3= =A4lj inte skinnet f=C3=B6rr=C3=A4n bj=C3=B6rnen =C3=A4r skjuten On Sund= ay, September 1, 2013 10:00 PM, Red wrote: =C2= =A0 They're here! They're here! The Sultry in September stories are here! = We have 46 stories on Archive of Our Own from our 2013 Sultry in September= fic exchange. Come on over and check them out. There is something for eve= ry slash reader: slash and femslash, every rating, LoTR and Silm alike. J= ust head on over to the new AO3 collection and don't forget to drop the wri= ters a line or two after you read them! Red The Slashy Mod ---125618876-684323495-1386517522=:23589 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Red
I don't know if you enjoyed organizing this swap bu= t people who offer swap-occasions or websites give something I have benefit= ed from a lot. I ended up writing stories that added new dimensions to my k= nowledge and friendships and writing.
I have not taken part recently but= wanted to send this generic appreciation - without archives and swaps and = groups there would not be any fanfic community to join.
So. Thanks!
E= rfan

 
<=
style><=
span style=3D"">
~~~
My candle burns at both ends;
It will not last the night=
;
But ah, my foes, and o=
h, my friends - 
It =
gives a lovely light!

~ Edna St. Vincent Mi=
llay ~

S=C3=A4lj inte skinnet f=C3=B6rr=C3=A4n bj=C3=B6rnen =C3=A4r skjuten
=

On = Sunday, September 1, 2013 10:00 PM, Red wrot= e:
 
They're here! They're here! The Sultry in September stories are he= re!

We have 46 stories on Archive of= Our Own from our 2013 Sultry in September fic exchange. Come on over and c= heck them out. There is something for every slash reader: slash and femsla= sh, every rating, LoTR and Silm alike.

Just head on over to the new AO3 co= llection and don't forget to drop the writers a line or two after you r= ead them!

Red
The= Slashy Mod
<= br>
---125618876-684323495-1386517522=:23589-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3548 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99564 invoked by uid 102); 11 Dec 2013 23:29:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2013 23:29:53 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 20098 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2013 23:29:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n8-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (72.30.234.88) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2013 23:29:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.196.81.176] by n8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2013 23:29:53 -0000 X-Received: from [10.193.75.127] by t6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2013 23:29:53 -0000 Date: 11 Dec 2013 15:29:53 -0800 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gapi5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2013 23:29:53 -0000 To: Message-ID: X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2014 - Sign-ups beginning today! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=Fpx92fxpozKEE_MhiJ7NGNVTrXlbDgpNu1UuB2ihPxxgoU6VvgVG X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 U2lnbiB1cCBub3cgZm9yIE15IFNsYXNoeSBWYWxlbnRpbmUgMjAxNDogYSBUb2xraWVuIFNsYXNo IGV4Y2hhbmdlISBGcm9tIHRoZSBZZWFycyBvZiB0aGUgVHJlZXMgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgRm91cnRo IEFnZSDigJMgaXQncyB0aW1lIG9uY2UgYWdhaW4gdG8gbWFrZSB5b3VyIFRvbGtpZW4gRlBTIGZh bmZpYyBkcmVhbXMgY29tZSB0cnVl4oCmDQogDQoNCiBIYXZlIHlvdSBhbHdheXMgd2FudGVkIHRv IHJlYWQgYSBjZXJ0YWluIHBhaXJpbmcgb3Igc2NlbmFyaW8sIGJ1dCBjb3VsZG4ndCB3cml0ZSBp dCB5b3Vyc2VsZj8gT3IgaGF2ZSBhIHBsb3QgYnVubnkgdGhhdCdzIGJlZW4gcm9sbGluZyBhcm91 bmQgaW4geW91ciBtaW5kLCBidXQganVzdCBjYW4ndCBzZWUgeW91cnNlbGYgd3JpdGluZyB0aGF0 IHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgc3Rvcnk/DQogDQoNCiBIYXZlIGl0IHdyaXR0ZW4gZm9yIHlvdSDigJMgc3Bl Y2lmaWNhbGx5IGFuZCBlc3BlY2lhbGx5IGZvciB5b3VyIG93biBzd2VldCBzZWxmISBBbmQgc2hh 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X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.36) by m13.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Dec 2013 00:40:36 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 2347 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2013 00:40:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oa0-f51.google.com) (209.85.219.51) by mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Dec 2013 00:40:36 -0000 X-Received: by mail-oa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id i7so4394738oag.24 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:40:35 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.29.33 with SMTP id g1mr288708obh.59.1387672835794; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:40:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.76.80.10 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:40:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 19:40:15 -0500 Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, glorfindel_of_imladris@yahoogroups.com, LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2b8b2712d5904ee14c2c3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Red Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2014- Last call for sign-ups! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=rb_D20CJDqocOPisYVLzNQIshpjtogjpmTGnA-csVyw-fdobdmUU X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin --001a11c2b8b2712d5904ee14c2c3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 My Slashy Valentine 2014 (Tolkien fandom, all Ages, FPS only) sign-ups end tomorrow at midnight. If you would like to receive a special story tailored to your prompts and write a reciprocal story for someone else, sign up now while it is still open! Important Dates: Sign-up period: December 11 - December 22 Assignments to be distributed no later than December 28 Deadline for first-time participants: February 1, 2014 Deadline for returning participants: February 8, 2014 Archive opens: February 14, 2014 Head on over to here for the rules and sign-up link: http://slashy-santa.livejournal.com/75260.html We'd love to have you! Red, the Slashy Mod -- A life is a mosaic, crafted from the tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day. --001a11c2b8b2712d5904ee14c2c3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My Slashy Valentine 2014 (Tolkien fandom= , all Ages, FPS only) sign-ups end
your prompts and write a re= ciprocal story for someone else, sign up now while
= it is still open!

= Important Dates:
Sign-up period: December 11 - December 22
Assignments to be distributed no later than December 28 Deadline for first-time participants: Febr= uary 1, 2014
Deadline for returni= ng participants: February 8, 2014
Archive opens: February 14, 2014

<= span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.72= 7272033691406px">Head on over to here for the rules and sign-up link:
http://slashy-santa.livejournal.com/75260.html

We'd love to have you!

Red, the Slashy Mod

--
A life is a mosaic, crafted from the tiny pi= eces of what you do each day, every day.
--001a11c2b8b2712d5904ee14c2c3-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3551 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3041 invoked by uid 102); 31 Dec 2013 20:58:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2013 20:58:58 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 2151 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2013 20:58:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ea0-f179.google.com) (209.85.215.179) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2013 20:58:58 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ea0-f179.google.com with SMTP id r15so5681090ead.24 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 12:58:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.15.67.142 with SMTP id u14mr8174772eex.59.1388523538112; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 12:58:58 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from [10.0.0.5] (D4CC9DFD.cm-2.dynamic.ziggo.nl. [212.204.157.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id v7sm121354328eel.2.2013.12.31.12.58.56 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Dec 2013 12:58:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52C32FC3.2070608@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 21:57:39 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SWG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: SWG site is down for the moment X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=pDjBH2pSqcH4e8K4Ec3-MDSfrq46UQiKZFopmWmF2hHM5iSkKfaD_0o X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard Hi all, we just wanted to give you a heads up as to why our archive & site is down at the moment. Our host has reported that they have issues regarding their data center's network connectivity and many sites hosted by them are down at the moment. They have a team of admins working on as we speak, so hopefully full service will be restored later this day. Rhapsody (who is keeping her fingers crossed) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3552 Return-Path: X-Sender: heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43345 invoked by uid 102); 31 Dec 2013 21:02:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m16.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2013 21:02:35 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 4026 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2013 21:02:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO omr-m05.mx.aol.com) (64.12.143.79) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2013 21:02:35 -0000 X-Received: from mtaomg-mce01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mce01.mx.aol.com [172.29.27.207]) by omr-m05.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id EBF4C7019EF03 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:02:34 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from core-djc004b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-djc004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.69.141]) by mtaomg-mce01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id A404438000087 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:02:34 -0500 (EST) References: <52C32FC3.2070608@gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <52C32FC3.2070608@gmail.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D0D482C33A5013_22D0_F320_webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38252-STANDARD X-Received: from 96.239.81.102 by webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com (149.174.160.228) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:02:34 -0500 Message-Id: <8D0D482C327450B-22D0-4309@webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:02:34 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d1bcf52c330ea5d09 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] SWG site is down for the moment X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=CYuQFj2IFT_xqZhVyfWoJyCzkFCNpmKWBLesmcFmSTuB2HedhZQV X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8D0D482C33A5013_22D0_F320_webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Wow. I had not noticed, am so happy you let us know, because I am working= on a bio at the moment and pop in and out periodically to look for things.= No problem, I have plenty of work to do on it that does not require immedi= ate access. -----Original Message----- From: Rhapsody To: SWG Sent: Tue, Dec = 31, 2013 3:59 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] SWG site is down for t= he moment Hi all, we just wanted to give you= a heads up as to why our archive & site is down at the moment. Our host h= as reported that they have issues regarding their data center's network co= nnectivity and many sites hosted by them are down at the moment. They have= a team of admins working on as we speak, so hopefully full service will b= e restored later this day. Rhapsody (who is keeping her fingers crossed) = ----------MB_8D0D482C33A5013_22D0_F320_webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Wow. I had not noticed, am so happy you let us = know, because I am working on a bio at the moment and pop in and out period= ically to look for things. No problem, I have plenty of work to do on it th= at does not require immediate access.


-----Original Message-----
From: = Rhapsody
To: SWG
Sent: Tue, Dec 31, 2013 3:59 pm
Su= bject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] SWG site is down for the moment
=
 
H= i all,

we just wanted to give you a heads up as to why our= archive & site is
down at the moment. Our host has reported t= hat they have issues
regarding their data center's network connect= ivity and many sites hosted
by them are down at the moment. They h= ave a team of admins working on as
we speak, so hopefully full ser= vice will be restored later this day.

Rhapsody
(wh= o is keeping her fingers crossed)
=
=
----------MB_8D0D482C33A5013_22D0_F320_webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3553 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94014 invoked by uid 102); 31 Dec 2013 21:06:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2013 21:06:15 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 22749 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2013 21:06:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ea0-f175.google.com) (209.85.215.175) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2013 21:06:15 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ea0-f175.google.com with SMTP id z10so5636691ead.6 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 13:06:14 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.15.54.130 with SMTP id t2mr8316028eew.72.1388523974721; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 13:06:14 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Received: from [10.0.0.5] (D4CC9DFD.cm-2.dynamic.ziggo.nl. [212.204.157.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id a51sm121403641eeh.8.2013.12.31.13.06.13 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Dec 2013 13:06:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52C33176.80405@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 22:04:54 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: <52C32FC3.2070608@gmail.com> <8D0D482C327450B-22D0-4309@webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8D0D482C327450B-22D0-4309@webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rhapsody Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] SWG site is down for the moment X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=tJAmqggh49yV-R6rPsQJqbEgfgL725ElMPo6XIo57LZLtMrVEkzz9Yw X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard It's been going on for about two hours now, and I have been following their twitter feed since then, so if there is positive news I'll report back. Rhapsody On 31-12-2013 22:02, heartofoshun@aol.com wrote: > Wow. I had not noticed, am so happy you let us know, because I am > working on a bio at the moment and pop in and out periodically to look > for things. No problem, I have plenty of work to do on it that does not > require immediate access. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhapsody > To: SWG > Sent: Tue, Dec 31, 2013 3:59 pm > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] SWG site is down for the moment > > Hi all, > > we just wanted to give you a heads up as to why our archive & site is > down at the moment. Our host has reported that they have issues > regarding their data center's network connectivity and many sites hosted > by them are down at the moment. They have a team of admins working on as > we speak, so hopefully full service will be restored later this day. > > Rhapsody > (who is keeping her fingers crossed) > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3554 Return-Path: X-Sender: rhapsody74@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5445 invoked by uid 102); 1 Jan 2014 00:22:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.33) by m1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2014 00:22:33 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 5653 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2014 00:22:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n10-vm3.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (66.196.80.178) by mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2014 00:22:33 -0000 X-Received: from [66.196.81.175] by n10.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2014 00:22:33 -0000 X-Received: from [10.193.75.107] by t5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2014 00:22:33 -0000 Date: 31 Dec 2013 16:22:33 -0800 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gapi3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2014 00:04:49 -0000 To: Message-ID: X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <52C32FC3.2070608@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52C32FC3.2070608@gmail.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV" X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Subject: RE: SWG site is down for the moment X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=jvNn-fDRcSub_MSJO26Pf4_5WCWHnWQNK9h0ZuQVtJZi35iqR4l5JJI X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard --9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhlIHNpdGUgaXMgYmFjayB1cCENCiANCg0KIEhhcHB5IE5ldyBZZWFyIGV2ZXJ5b25lISBNYXkg aXQgYmUgYSB5ZWFyIGZpbGxlZCB3aXRoIGpveSwgaW5zcGlyYXRpb24gYW5kIGxvdHMgb2YgY3Jl YXRpdml0eS4NCiANCg0KIFJoYXBzb2R5DQoNCg== --9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PHA+VGhlIHNpdGUgaXMgYmFjayB1cCE8L3A+PHA+PGJyPjwvcD48cCBzdHlsZT0iY29sb3I6cmdi KDAsIDAsIDApO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxM3B4O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OmFyaWFsLCBoZWx2ZXRpY2EsIGNs ZWFuLCBzYW5zLXNlcmlmO2JhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6dHJhbnNwYXJlbnQ7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpu b3JtYWw7Ij5IYXBweSBOZXcgWWVhciBldmVyeW9uZSEgTWF5IGl0IGJlIGEgeWVhciBmaWxsZWQg d2l0aCBqb3ksIGluc3BpcmF0aW9uIGFuZCBsb3RzIG9mIGNyZWF0aXZpdHkuPC9wPjxwIHN0eWxl PSJjb2xvcjpyZ2IoMCwgMCwgMCk7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEzcHg7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6YXJpYWwsIGhl bHZldGljYSwgY2xlYW4sIHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7YmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjp0cmFuc3BhcmVudDtm b250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDsiPjxicj48L3A+PHAgc3R5bGU9ImNvbG9yOnJnYigwLCAwLCAwKTtm b250LXNpemU6MTNweDtmb250LWZhbWlseTphcmlhbCwgaGVsdmV0aWNhLCBjbGVhbiwgc2Fucy1z ZXJpZjtiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOnRyYW5zcGFyZW50O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsOyI+Umhh cHNvZHk8YnI+PC9wPg== --9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3555 Return-Path: X-Sender: heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80929 invoked by uid 102); 1 Jan 2014 00:28:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.36) by m13.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2014 00:28:16 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 18004 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2014 00:28:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO omr-d08.mx.aol.com) (205.188.109.207) by mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2014 00:28:16 -0000 X-Received: from mtaomg-maa02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-maa02.mx.aol.com [172.26.222.144]) by omr-d08.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id A9C47700028D6 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 19:28:16 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from core-djc004b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-djc004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.69.141]) by mtaomg-maa02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 5CB8138000086 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 19:28:16 -0500 (EST) References: <52C32FC3.2070608@gmail.com> To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D0D49F7F6BD8A9_22D0_12D6F_webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38252-STANDARD X-Received: from 96.239.81.102 by webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com (149.174.160.228) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 31 Dec 2013 19:28:16 -0500 Message-Id: <8D0D49F7F51A97E-22D0-5222@webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 19:28:16 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1ade9052c361201ca9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: heartofoshun@aol.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] RE: SWG site is down for the moment X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=ma_QqAMa93u5fb8NerrbQORen_pwD2C-JS2tkFSVmrWXn7p7PUkz X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun ----------MB_8D0D49F7F6BD8A9_22D0_12D6F_webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thank you so much, Rhaps! Happy New Year to you and your family! -= ----Original Message----- From: rhapsody74 To: Silma= rillionWritersGuild Sent: Tue, D= ec 31, 2013 7:22 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] RE: SWG site is dow= n for the moment The site is back up! Happ= y New Year everyone! May it be a year filled with joy, inspiration and lots= of creativity. Rhapsody ----------MB_8D0D49F7F6BD8A9_22D0_12D6F_webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Thank you so much, Rhaps! Happy New Year to you and your family!


=

-----Original Message-----
= From: rhapsody74
To: SilmarillionWriter= sGuild
Sent: Tue, D= ec 31, 2013 7:22 pm
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] RE: SWG site= is down for the moment

&nb= sp;
=
The site is back up!

Happy New Year everyone! May it be a year f= illed with joy, inspiration and lots of creativity.

=
=
----------MB_8D0D49F7F6BD8A9_22D0_12D6F_webmail-d227.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3556 Return-Path: X-Sender: silver.trails@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52623 invoked by uid 102); 1 Jan 2014 15:08:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2014 15:08:02 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 31975 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2014 15:08:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm43-vm7.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (216.109.114.238) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2014 15:08:02 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.215.140] by nm43.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2014 15:08:02 -0000 X-Received: from [98.139.212.196] by tm11.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2014 15:08:01 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2014 15:08:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 976813.88882.bm@omp1005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 75013 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jan 2014 15:08:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: LKkLBSYVM1nKyutW4K2pRbzYkqO22OifcToCiteWD2GFS6b UcIkB8eB_0y3YUFQ9s2JtfNve1x5Zt3i1nbWZPbe7gU78cX2TbO.8eMkAdH. 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CC On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:22 PM, "rhapsody74@gmail= .com" wrote: =C2=A0 The site is back up! Happy = New Year everyone! May it be a year filled with joy, inspiration and lots o= f creativity. Rhapsody ---159211915-737437210-1388588881=:61179 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Happy 2014!

CC


On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:22 PM, "rhapsody74@gmail.com" = wrote:
=  
=
The site is back up!

Happy = New Year everyone! May it be a year filled with joy, inspiration and lots o= f creativity.

Rhapsody
I simply wish to read and enjoy, not pla= y the game. Is this possible.

To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@y= ahoogroups.com
From: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Dat= e: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:56:21 -0500
Subject: [Silmarillio= nWritersGuild] New RPG!

=

Posting the link with Dawn's permission:
 

 
We are lo= oking for new players, and there are many good characters still not taken! = Email us if you want to play. :)
=


--_9b3a7bd6-20e4-481e-bd8f-cdcc1f757a09_-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3599 Return-Path: X-Sender: silvertrails@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19860 invoked by uid 102); 13 Dec 2014 16:06:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.33) by m8.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2014 16:06:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 26273 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2014 16:06:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-la0-f41.google.com) (98.139.170.166) by mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2014 16:06:37 -0000 X-Received: by mail-la0-f41.google.com with SMTP id hv19so7448296lab.14 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 08:06:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.164.240 with SMTP id yt16mr4111853lbb.34.1418486796471; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 08:06:36 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.25.15.134 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 08:06:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 11:06:36 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133be2a9f53eb050a1b3161 Subject: RE: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New RPG! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=333627357; y=8MJwG4o0Z1s3auHZD_dObLa3vQ2G6mhrsJhykwIjVbhkwyL39mdB7w X-Yahoo-Profile: silver.trails From: Silver Trails --001a1133be2a9f53eb050a1b3161 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone is welcome to read. The posts are public. :) El dic 13, 2014 5:23= a.m., "Jillian Baade jilba25@hotmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild]" escribi=C3=B3: > > > I simply wish t= o read and enjoy, not play the game. Is this possible. > > ----------------= -------------- > To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > From: Silma= rillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:56:21 -0500= > Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New RPG! > > > > Posting the link wi= th Dawn's permission: > > > http://newage-ooc.dreamwidth.org/506.html > > >= > We are looking for new players, and there are many good characters still= > not taken! Email us if you want to play. :) > > > > > --001a1133be2a9f53eb050a1b3161 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anyone is welcome to read. The = posts are public. :)



El dic 13, 2014 5:23 a.m., "Jillian Baade jilba25@hotmail.com [Silm= arillionWritersGuild]" <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com= > escribi=C3=B3:
=
=C2=A0<= /span>

I simply wish to read and enjoy, not play the game. Is this possible.
=
To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
From: Sil= marillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:56:2= 1 -0500
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] New RPG!

=

Posting the link with Dawn's permission:
=C2=A0

=C2=A0
We are looking = for new players, and there are many good characters still not taken! Email = us if you want to play. :)


=
--001a1133be2a9f53eb050a1b3161-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3600 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42321 invoked by uid 102); 21 Dec 2014 21:48:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m14.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2014 21:48:46 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 12717 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2014 21:48:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f171.google.com) (98.138.215.81) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2014 21:48:46 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f171.google.com with SMTP id uz6so18965664obc.2; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 13:48:45 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.202.222.139 with SMTP id v133mr3263345oig.115.1419198525172; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 13:48:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.76.33.200 with HTTP; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 13:48:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 16:48:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: ofelvesandmenSLASH@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, Erestor@yahoogroups.com, glorfindel_of_imladris@yahoogroups.com, Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d6250f570f3050ac0e72b Subject: My Slashy Valentine 2015 - last call for sign-ups! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=X6MjftSRq_2Uz9YNz2x6uIQfljomUCDi8ZnrZQWqbn1AgyYSMaqQ X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin From: Red --001a113d6250f570f3050ac0e72b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 My Slashy Valentine 2015 (Tolkien fandom, all Ages, FPS only) sign-ups end tonight at midnight. If you would like to receive a special story tailored to your prompts and write a reciprocal story for someone else, sign up now while it is still open! Important Dates: Sign-up period: December 10 - December 21 Assignments to be distributed no later than December 27 Deadline for first-time participants: February 1, 2015 Deadline for returning participants: February 8, 2015 Archive opens: February 14, 2015 Head on over to here for the rules and sign-up link: *http://slashy-santa.livejournal.com/80124.html * We'd love to have you! Red Slashy Mod -- A life is a mosaic, crafted from the tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day. --001a113d6250f570f3050ac0e72b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My Slashy Valentine 2015 (Tolkien fandom, all Ages, FPS only) sign-ups = end
tonight at midnigh= t. If you would like to receive a special story tailored to
your prompts and write a reciprocal s= tory for someone else, sign up now while
it is still open!

= Important Dates:
Sign-= up period: December 10 - December 21
Assignments to be distributed no later than December 27
Deadline for first-time = participants: February 1, 2015
Deadline for returning participants: February 8, 2015
Archive opens: February 14, 2015

Head on over to he= re for the rules and sign-up link:
http://slashy-santa.livejournal.com/80= 124.html

We'd love to hav= e you!
Red
Slashy Mod

--
A life is= a mosaic, crafted from the tiny pieces of what you do each day, every day.=
--001a113d6250f570f3050ac0e72b-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3601 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27007 invoked by uid 102); 26 Dec 2014 15:26:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Dec 2014 15:26:49 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 11621 invoked from network); 26 Dec 2014 15:26:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ie0-f175.google.com) (98.138.215.83) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Dec 2014 15:26:49 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ie0-f175.google.com with SMTP id x19so9388309ier.6; Fri, 26 Dec 2014 07:26:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.3.162 with SMTP id e34mr39282668ioi.55.1419607608080; Fri, 26 Dec 2014 07:26:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.107.55.68 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Dec 2014 07:26:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 10:26:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ecb0a3352b3050b20278f Subject: Tolkien Fan Fiction Survey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Ponf6RngEnXwFf9WqWK53H9SmZfBm3SX8-q24MFyhTij5y9BlwjP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a113ecb0a3352b3050b20278f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, In January 2015, I will be presenting a paper about the Tolkien fan fiction community at the Mythmoot III conference in Baltimore. While other fandoms have been studied in depth, particularly television fandoms, very little study has been done on the Tolkien fandom, and my ten years of experience in this community have caused me to conclude that, while we share some similarities with other fandoms, we also differ in some important regards. I hope, through my Mythmoot presentation, to provide not only background on our community, its history, and its practices for an audience that may not be familiar with the fan fiction community, but also to begin to identify and examine some of the ways that our community differs from how fandom has been understood and presented by scholars. As part of this, I have put together a survey for participants in the Tolkien fan fiction community. The purpose of the survey is to collect data on the habits, beliefs, and preferences of Tolkien fans who participate in reading and/or writing fan fiction. No identifying information, including IP address, is collected as part of the survey. You may skip any questions you do not want to answer or quit the survey at any time. I estimate that it will take about 15-20 minutes to complete. If you have ever read or written Tolkien-based fan fiction, you are eligible to participate. The survey can be found here: http://goo.gl/forms/hCB8QaBRv4 Please feel free to direct any questions, comments, or concerns to me via email (DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT com). And do feel free to share the link to the survey with other fans and fandom groups; I would like to get as many perspectives as possible from as many corners of our community as possible. Thanks and best wishes to all for a happy holiday season! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a113ecb0a3352b3050b20278f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,

In January 2015, I w= ill be presenting a paper about the Tolkien fan fiction community at the My= thmoot III conference in Baltimore. While other fandoms have been studied i= n depth, particularly television fandoms, very little study has been done o= n the Tolkien fandom, and my ten years of experience in this community have= caused me to conclude that, while we share some similarities with other fa= ndoms, we also differ in some important regards. I hope, through my Mythmoo= t presentation, to provide not only background on our community, its histor= y, and its practices for an audience that may not be familiar with the fan = fiction community, but also to begin to identify and examine some of the wa= ys that our community differs from how fandom has been understood and prese= nted by scholars.

As part of this, I have put toge= ther a survey for participants in the Tolkien fan fiction community. The pu= rpose of the survey is to collect data on the habits, beliefs, and preferen= ces of Tolkien fans who participate in reading and/or writing fan fiction. = No identifying information, including IP address, is collected as part of t= he survey. You may skip any questions you do not want to answer or quit the= survey at any time. I estimate that it will take about 15-20 minutes to co= mplete.

If you have ever read or written Tolkien-b= ased fan fiction, you are eligible to participate.

The survey can be found here:=C2=A0http://goo.gl/forms/hCB8QaBRv4

Please feel= free to direct any questions, comments, or concerns to me via email (DawnF= elagund AT gmail DOT com). And do feel free to share the link to the survey= with other fans and fandom groups; I would like to get as many perspective= s as possible from as many corners of our community as possible.
=
Thanks and best wishes to all for a happy holiday season!

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriter= sguild.org
--001a113ecb0a3352b3050b20278f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3602 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52340 invoked by uid 102); 31 Dec 2014 15:11:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.37) by m13.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2014 15:11:44 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 24227 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2014 15:11:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ig0-f175.google.com) (98.139.245.165) by mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2014 15:11:44 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ig0-f175.google.com with SMTP id h15so13792524igd.2; Wed, 31 Dec 2014 07:11:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.3.162 with SMTP id e34mr60202458ioi.55.1420038704231; Wed, 31 Dec 2014 07:11:44 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.107.55.68 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Dec 2014 07:11:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 10:11:44 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ecb0a887c19050b848635 Subject: Tolkien Fan Fiction Survey: First Data Download Tomorrow! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=11k9TtzS4zmJ1dWltw-fo5-N47D4EkXgPkAbnCfbHUARSeT-06nl X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a113ecb0a887c19050b848635 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I posted about a week ago about an online survey about the Tolkien fan fiction community. The results of this survey will be used in a paper presentation I will be giving about the Tolkien fan fiction community at the Mythmoot III conference. I will be downloading the data I will be using at Mythmoot *tomorrow, *so if you want to take the survey and want your responses included in the data set for the Mythmoot presentation, please make sure to do so within the next day or so. I will leave the survey up for the full year allowed by my IRB approval, so if you want to take it but won't get to it before the download for Mythmoot--no worries! It will still be available for quite some time, and this will be the data set that I use for any future papers that reference the survey. The survey takes about 15-20 minutes to complete and is completely anonymous. No identifying information, including IP addresses or combinations of data that might be used to identify respondents, is collected. Here is the link again for anyone who needs it: http://goo.gl/forms/oAEX85tcyR Thank you to all who have taken it so far and to those who have helped me to promote it. The response has been overwhelming, and I am extremely grateful for the amount of time people have collectively spent taking it and supporting my project! :) Also, I have been asked by quite a few people: Yes, the full-text paper will be published in the conference proceedings (available for free online through the Mythgard Institute), and I will be sharing a video of the presentation as well. If anyone wants the full-text paper before it is officially published--last year's proceedings took several months, and there are many more presenters this year--just drop me an email, and I will send it to you the weekend of the conference. Best wishes to all for a happy New Year! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a113ecb0a887c19050b848635 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,

I posted about a week ago= about an online survey about the Tolkien fan fiction community. The result= s of this survey will be used in a paper presentation I will be giving abou= t the Tolkien fan fiction community at the Mythmoot III conference. I will = be downloading the data I will be using at Mythmoot tomorrow,=C2=A0s= o if you want to take the survey and want your responses included in the da= ta set for the Mythmoot presentation, please make sure to do so within the = next day or so.

I will leave the survey up for the= full year allowed by my IRB approval, so if you want to take it but won= 9;t get to it before the download for Mythmoot--no worries! It will still b= e available for quite some time, and this will be the data set that I use f= or any future papers that reference the survey. The survey takes about 15-2= 0 minutes to complete and is completely anonymous. No identifying informati= on, including IP addresses or combinations of data that might be used to id= entify respondents, is collected.

Here is the link= again for anyone who needs it:


<= /div>
Thank you to all who have taken it so far and to those who have h= elped me to promote it. The response has been overwhelming, and I am extrem= ely grateful for the amount of time people have collectively spent taking i= t and supporting my project! :)

Also, I have been = asked by quite a few people: Yes, the full-text paper will be published in = the conference proceedings (available for free online through the Mythgard = Institute), and I will be sharing a video of the presentation as well. If a= nyone wants the full-text paper before it is officially published--last yea= r's proceedings took several months, and there are many more presenters= this year--just drop me an email, and I will send it to you the weekend of= the conference.

Best wishes to all for a happy Ne= w Year!

--001a113ecb0a887c19050b848635-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3603 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18566 invoked by uid 102); 3 Jan 2015 21:19:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m9.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2015 21:19:19 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 22097 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2015 21:19:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ie0-f172.google.com) (98.138.100.119) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2015 21:19:19 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id tr6so18056343ieb.3 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 13:19:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.46.165 with SMTP id u37mr72187455iou.80.1420319959336; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 13:19:19 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.107.55.68 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jan 2015 13:19:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2015 16:19:19 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11378be8a4cd87050bc602eb Subject: Comment Notifications and Messages Not Being Received from the Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=8SwXz9tAJ1Uhw2lVV8fwTRsgmnb3rPzzGq9fWfdq2wB34M3t5SsE X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a11378be8a4cd87050bc602eb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I just want to let you all know that we've had a couple instances of members not receiving notifications of new comments or messages sent from the SWG's archive. Rhapsody and I are trying to troubleshoot why this might be (since we haven't done any updates or made any changes to the site since we started having the problem). If you *do* happen to receive a review notification or other email via the SWG archive, if you could let me know, I'd be very appreciative (because that could help us to narrow down whether it is a site issue or a Gmail issue, since all reports so far have come from Gmail). I know this is a pain and do apologize to anyone affected or inconvenienced by this problem. Please know we are working on it and hope to have it resolved soon. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a11378be8a4cd87050bc602eb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

I just want to let you all kno= w that we've had a couple instances of members not receiving notificati= ons of new comments or messages sent from the SWG's archive. Rhapsody a= nd I are trying to troubleshoot why this might be (since we haven't don= e any updates or made any changes to the site since we started having the p= roblem). If you do=C2=A0happen to receive a review notification or o= ther email via the SWG archive, if you could let me know, I'd be very a= ppreciative (because that could help us to narrow down whether it is a site= issue or a Gmail issue, since all reports so far have come from Gmail).

I know this is a pain and do apologize to anyone aff= ected or inconvenienced by this problem. Please know we are working on it a= nd hope to have it resolved soon.

--001a11378be8a4cd87050bc602eb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3604 Return-Path: X-Sender: docbushwell@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22839 invoked by uid 102); 3 Jan 2015 21:37:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.36) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2015 21:37:35 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 31391 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2015 21:37:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qa0-f51.google.com) (98.139.245.163) by mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2015 21:37:35 -0000 X-Received: by mail-qa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id i13so11430200qae.38 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 13:37:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.14.66 with SMTP id f2mr69150981qaa.81.1420321054821; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 13:37:34 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.140.102.165 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jan 2015 13:37:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2015 16:37:34 -0500 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdc78c2f091c9050bc64386 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Comment Notifications and Messages Not Being Received from the Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=303542481; y=LMlkVgChgRxofxXJRIbqT2U6RifcE_hyjX81JmUrV13B9RuuTnwBpX4h X-Yahoo-Profile: pandemonium_213 From: "Dr. Joan Bushwell" --047d7bdc78c2f091c9050bc64386 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the notification, Dawn. Of course, this would be the day that I= left several reviews on fics there... On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Daw= n Felagund DawnFelagund@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] wrote: > > > Hi, all, > > I just want to let = you all know that we've had a couple instances of > members not receiving n= otifications of new comments or messages sent from > the SWG's archive. Rha= psody and I are trying to troubleshoot why this might > be (since we haven'= t done any updates or made any changes to the site since > we started havin= g the problem). If you *do* happen to receive a review > notification or ot= her email via the SWG archive, if you could let me know, > I'd be very appr= eciative (because that could help us to narrow down whether > it is a site = issue or a Gmail issue, since all reports so far have come > from Gmail). >= > I know this is a pain and do apologize to anyone affected or > inconveni= enced by this problem. Please know we are working on it and hope > to have = it resolved soon. > > All the best, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund= > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwri= tersguild.org > > > --047d7bdc78c2f091c9050bc64386 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the notification, Dawn.=C2=A0 Of course, this w= ould be the day that I left several reviews on fics there...

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at= 4:19 PM, Dawn Felagund DawnFelag= und@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] <Silm= arillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
=C2=A0

<= /p>

Hi, all,

I just want to let you all = know that we've had a couple instances of members not receiving notific= ations of new comments or messages sent from the SWG's archive. Rhapsod= y and I are trying to troubleshoot why this might be (since we haven't = done any updates or made any changes to the site since we started having th= e problem). If you do=C2=A0happen to receive a review notification o= r other email via the SWG archive, if you could let me know, I'd be ver= y appreciative (because that could help us to narrow down whether it is a s= ite issue or a Gmail issue, since all reports so far have come from Gmail).=

I know this is a pain and do apologize to anyone = affected or inconvenienced by this problem. Please know we are working on i= t and hope to have it resolved soon.

All the best,=

=

--047d7bdc78c2f091c9050bc64386-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3605 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22502 invoked by uid 102); 3 Jan 2015 21:42:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2015 21:42:43 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 17490 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2015 21:42:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ig0-f173.google.com) (98.138.215.81) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2015 21:42:43 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ig0-f173.google.com with SMTP id r2so938927igi.0 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 13:42:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.94.14 with SMTP id z14mr28423999icm.59.1420321362940; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 13:42:42 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.107.55.68 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jan 2015 13:42:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2015 16:42:42 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30334b8b4e179b050bc656d1 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Comment Notifications and Messages Not Being Received from the Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=vepWapPexPuIs8qIinA24RtOOqVsH-eTPE83vnvb6t8if6zDTADo X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --20cf30334b8b4e179b050bc656d1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, you and me both! It remains possible that they went through. I have si= nce received information that comment notifications were sporadic as much a= s a month ago, and the problem is not confined to Gmail. I've both sent mes= sages through the site and received notifications since then. We are curre= ntly looking into whether the security fix we had to install (and that alre= ady introduced one bug that had to be squashed) may be behind this latest s= nafu as well. I very much miss Tammy, the previous eFiction developer, righ= t now. :) I do continue to appreciate any and all reports of comment notif= ications, comment reply notifications, and private messages working or not = working so I can get a better picture of exactly what is going on and maybe= narrow down the problem further. Dawn On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:37 PM, '= Dr. Joan Bushwell' docbushwell@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] wrote: > > > Thanks for the notificati= on, Dawn. Of course, this would be the day that > I left several reviews o= n fics there... > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Dawn Felagund DawnFelag= und@gmail.com > [SilmarillionWritersGuild] > wrote: > >> >> >> Hi, all, >> >> I just want to let you all kn= ow that we've had a couple instances of >> members not receiving notificati= ons of new comments or messages sent from >> the SWG's archive. Rhapsody an= d I are trying to troubleshoot why this might >> be (since we haven't done = any updates or made any changes to the site since >> we started having the = problem). If you *do* happen to receive a review >> notification or other e= mail via the SWG archive, if you could let me know, >> I'd be very apprecia= tive (because that could help us to narrow down whether >> it is a site iss= ue or a Gmail issue, since all reports so far have come >> from Gmail). >> = >> I know this is a pain and do apologize to anyone affected or >> inconven= ienced by this problem. Please know we are working on it and hope >> to hav= e it resolved soon. >> >> All the best, >> >> Dawn >> >> -- >> ~oOo~ >> Daw= n Felagund >> http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ >> http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org >> >> > > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://the= midhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --20cf30334b8b4e179b050bc656d1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, you and me both! It remains possible that they went t= hrough. I have since received information that comment notifications were s= poradic as much as a month ago, and the problem is not confined to Gmail. I= 've both sent messages through the site and received notifications sinc= e then.

We are currently looking into whether the securi= ty fix we had to install (and that already introduced one bug that had to b= e squashed) may be behind this latest snafu as well. I very much miss Tammy= , the previous eFiction developer, right now. :)

I= do continue to appreciate any and all reports of comment notifications, co= mment reply notifications, and private messages working or not working so I= can get a better picture of exactly what is going on and maybe narrow down= the problem further.

Dawn


On Sat, Jan 3,= 2015 at 4:37 PM, 'Dr. Joan Bushwell' docbushwell@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> wro= te:
=C2=A0
=

Thanks for the notification, Dawn.= =C2=A0 Of course, this would be the day that I left several reviews on fics= there...

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@gmail.= com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] <SilmarillionWri= tersGuild@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
<= div>

Hi, all,

I just want to let you all know that we've had a couple instances of = members not receiving notifications of new comments or messages sent from t= he SWG's archive. Rhapsody and I are trying to troubleshoot why this mi= ght be (since we haven't done any updates or made any changes to the si= te since we started having the problem). If you do=C2=A0happen to re= ceive a review notification or other email via the SWG archive, if you coul= d let me know, I'd be very appreciative (because that could help us to = narrow down whether it is a site issue or a Gmail issue, since all reports = so far have come from Gmail).

I know this is a pai= n and do apologize to anyone affected or inconvenienced by this problem. Pl= ease know we are working on it and hope to have it resolved soon.

All the best,




--
~oOo~Dawn Felagund
h= ttp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--20cf30334b8b4e179b050bc656d1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3606 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44637 invoked by uid 102); 4 Jan 2015 03:39:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m17.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2015 03:39:56 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 10430 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2015 03:39:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ie0-f174.google.com) (98.138.215.83) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2015 03:39:56 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ie0-f174.google.com with SMTP id at20so17581779iec.5 for ; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 19:39:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.29.107 with SMTP id j11mr5379709igh.32.1420342795945; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 19:39:55 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.107.55.68 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jan 2015 19:39:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2015 22:39:55 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd760c4cfce73050bcb532e Subject: January 2015 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=gsY-UpjSzaTBO-j4S4pW8emGXzJnHZrZIdieDvYPGU_k_0J9H0gQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --047d7bd760c4cfce73050bcb532e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The newsletter is a bit late thanks to the holidays but, at last, it has been posted on our website here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/january2015.php We have some site news this month: the ending of the (re)reading (with hearty thanks and congrats to our intrepid hostesses, Lyra and Indy!), updates to our guidelines on Tumblr, and the ongoing HASA rescue project. There is also a ton going on in the fandom outside of our group, from challenges and events to classes and conferences. Check out Around the World and Web for these announcements, as well as a collection of featured articles and videos. This month, we introduce a new challenge that's a little different. The "First Lines" challenge gives writers a list of potential first lines. Create a story using that first line and post it to our archive. We are also revisiting the "Just Say It with a Gift!" challenge, that looks at Arda's gift-giving customs. If you're looking for a story to read, check out the list of stories added and updated on the archive last month. We had quite a rush at the end of the month and are edging *very* close to the milestone 2,000 stories! A final [sentimental!] note from me: the SWG will turn ten this year. It will be a big year for me--I will hopefully and FINALLY finish my MA this year--and I cannot believe that the little Silmfic writer's group I started is turning ten and has come this far. Thank you to all of you who have supported the SWG throughout the years and have made us one of the finest Tolkien fan fiction sites on the Web. I wish all of you the best for a happy 2015 and raise my glass to ten more years! All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --047d7bd760c4cfce73050bcb532e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

The newsletter is a bit late t= hanks to the holidays but, at last, it has been posted on our website here:=


We have some site news this month: t= he ending of the (re)reading (with hearty thanks and congrats to our intrep= id hostesses, Lyra and Indy!), updates to our guidelines on Tumblr, and the= ongoing HASA rescue project. There is also a ton going on in the fandom ou= tside of our group, from challenges and events to classes and conferences. = Check out Around the World and Web for these announcements, as well as a co= llection of featured articles and videos.

This mon= th, we introduce a new challenge that's a little different. The "F= irst Lines" challenge gives writers a list of potential first lines. C= reate a story using that first line and post it to our archive. We are also= revisiting the "Just Say It with a Gift!" challenge, that looks = at Arda's gift-giving customs.

If you're l= ooking for a story to read, check out the list of stories added and updated= on the archive last month. We had quite a rush at the end of the month and= are edging very=C2=A0close to the milestone 2,000 stories!

A final [sentimental!] note from me: the SWG will turn ten= this year. It will be a big year for me--I will hopefully and FINALLY fini= sh my MA this year--and I cannot believe that the little Silmfic writer'= ;s group I started is turning ten and has come this far. Thank you to all o= f you who have supported the SWG throughout the years and have made us one = of the finest Tolkien fan fiction sites on the Web. I wish all of you the b= est for a happy 2015 and raise my glass to ten more years!

All the best,

Dawn
=
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
<= a href=3D"http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/">http://themidhavens.= net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--047d7bd760c4cfce73050bcb532e-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3607 Return-Path: X-Sender: silalilte@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12002 invoked by uid 102); 4 Jan 2015 10:48:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m16.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2015 10:48:50 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 3231 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2015 10:48:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wi0-f180.google.com) (98.139.170.166) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2015 10:48:50 -0000 X-Received: by mail-wi0-f180.google.com with SMTP id n3so1666561wiv.1 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2015 02:48:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.191.164 with SMTP id gz4mr80003145wjc.70.1420368529593; Sun, 04 Jan 2015 02:48:49 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.194.45.164 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jan 2015 02:48:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2015 11:48:49 +0100 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7ba98212a81dd7050bd1512d Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] January 2015 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=kPdBjAUkTtj3vKslnqy2WTEqXSbrjMYHwGMBTJQ9eQ3HlZV9a4E X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle From: =?UTF-8?Q?Karolina_W=C4=99grzyn?= --047d7ba98212a81dd7050bd1512d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dawn, ten years of SWG, that's amazing (and scary how fast time is runn= ing!). When is the anniversary? Regards, Sirielle 2015-01-04 4:39 GMT+01:= 00 Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] : > > > Hi, all, > > The newsletter is a= bit late thanks to the holidays but, at last, it has > been posted on our = website here: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/january2015.= php > > We have some site news this month: the ending of the (re)reading (w= ith > hearty thanks and congrats to our intrepid hostesses, Lyra and Indy!)= , > updates to our guidelines on Tumblr, and the ongoing HASA rescue projec= t. > There is also a ton going on in the fandom outside of our group, from = > challenges and events to classes and conferences. Check out Around the > = World and Web for these announcements, as well as a collection of featured = > articles and videos. > > This month, we introduce a new challenge that's = a little different. The > "First Lines" challenge gives writers a list of p= otential first lines. > Create a story using that first line and post it to= our archive. We are > also revisiting the "Just Say It with a Gift!" chall= enge, that looks at > Arda's gift-giving customs. > > If you're looking for= a story to read, check out the list of stories added > and updated on the = archive last month. We had quite a rush at the end of > the month and are e= dging *very* close to the milestone 2,000 stories! > > A final [sentimental= !] note from me: the SWG will turn ten this year. It > will be a big year f= or me--I will hopefully and FINALLY finish my MA this > year--and I cannot = believe that the little Silmfic writer's group I started > is turning ten a= nd has come this far. Thank you to all of you who have > supported the SWG = throughout the years and have made us one of the finest > Tolkien fan ficti= on sites on the Web. I wish all of you the best for a > happy 2015 and rais= e my glass to ten more years! > > All the best, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > D= awn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org > > > -- Karolina W=C4=99grzyn sirielle.wee= bly.com www.sirielle.com --047d7ba98212a81dd7050bd1512d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dawn,

ten years of SWG, that's a= mazing (and scary how fast time is running!). When is the anniversary?

Regards,
Sirielle

2015-01-04 4:39 GMT+01:00 Dawn F= elagund DawnFelagund@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] <SilmarillionWritersGu= ild@yahoogroups.com>:
=C2=A0 =

Hi,= all,

The newsletter is a bit late thanks to the holiday= s but, at last, it has been posted on our website here:


We have some site news this month: the= ending of the (re)reading (with hearty thanks and congrats to our intrepid= hostesses, Lyra and Indy!), updates to our guidelines on Tumblr, and the o= ngoing HASA rescue project. There is also a ton going on in the fandom outs= ide of our group, from challenges and events to classes and conferences. Ch= eck out Around the World and Web for these announcements, as well as a coll= ection of featured articles and videos.

This month= , we introduce a new challenge that's a little different. The "Fir= st Lines" challenge gives writers a list of potential first lines. Cre= ate a story using that first line and post it to our archive. We are also r= evisiting the "Just Say It with a Gift!" challenge, that looks at= Arda's gift-giving customs.

If you're loo= king for a story to read, check out the list of stories added and updated o= n the archive last month. We had quite a rush at the end of the month and a= re edging very=C2=A0close to the milestone 2,000 stories!
=
A final [sentimental!] note from me: the SWG will turn ten t= his year. It will be a big year for me--I will hopefully and FINALLY finish= my MA this year--and I cannot believe that the little Silmfic writer's= group I started is turning ten and has come this far. Thank you to all of = you who have supported the SWG throughout the years and have made us one of= the finest Tolkien fan fiction sites on the Web. I wish all of you the bes= t for a happy 2015 and raise my glass to ten more years!
<= div>
All the best,

Dawn
--




--
Karolina W=C4=99grzyn=C2= =A0
--047d7ba98212a81dd7050bd1512d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3608 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3324 invoked by uid 102); 4 Jan 2015 15:15:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.33) by m10.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2015 15:15:42 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 27054 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2015 15:15:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ie0-f175.google.com) (98.139.245.164) by mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2015 15:15:42 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ie0-f175.google.com with SMTP id x19so18520888ier.20 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2015 07:15:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.134.65 with SMTP id pi1mr7198245igb.32.1420384541605; Sun, 04 Jan 2015 07:15:41 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.107.55.68 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jan 2015 07:15:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2015 10:15:41 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b4140380c07ed050bd50cb4 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] January 2015 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=v3qx9uyM6Qb0-vzBWSq7NkhHPAXbf_PzLoroUIbZcskRNsbjc_ts X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --047d7b4140380c07ed050bd50cb4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I first set up the group on Yahoo! Groups and LiveJournal on March 15, but = Uli and I did not begin inviting people to join until the end of July. So I= often say that the SWG's begetting day was March 15 and its birthday was a= round July 28 or so. :) We still have quite a few of our original members = too. I think you might be one? Or very close to it, if not! Dawn On Sun, = Jan 4, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Karolina W=C4=99grzyn silalilte@gmail.com [Silmaril= lionWritersGuild] wrote: > > > = Hi Dawn, > > ten years of SWG, that's amazing (and scary how fast time is r= unning!). > When is the anniversary? > > Regards, > Sirielle > > -- > Kar= olina W=C4=99grzyn > sirielle.weebly.com > www.sirielle.com > -- ~oOo~ Da= wn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmaril= lionwritersguild.org --047d7b4140380c07ed050bd50cb4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I first set up the group on Yahoo! Groups and LiveJournal = on March 15, but Uli and I did not begin inviting people to join until the = end of July. So I often say that the SWG's begetting day was March 15 a= nd its birthday was around July 28 or so. :)

We still ha= ve quite a few of our original members too. I think you might be one? Or ve= ry close to it, if not!

Dawn

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Kar= olina W=C4=99grzyn silalilte@gmail.c= om [SilmarillionWritersGuild] <SilmarillionWrit= ersGuild@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
=C2= =A0

Hi Dawn,

ten years of SWG, that's amazing (= and scary how fast time is running!). When is the anniversary?
Regards,
Sirielle
=C2=A0
--=C2=A0
=
Karolina W=C4=99grzyn=C2=A0
=C2=A0
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net= /heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--047d7b4140380c07ed050bd50cb4-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3609 Return-Path: X-Sender: silalilte@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14404 invoked by uid 102); 4 Jan 2015 23:55:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.36) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2015 23:55:39 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 19924 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2015 23:55:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wi0-f182.google.com) (98.139.245.165) by mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2015 23:55:38 -0000 X-Received: by mail-wi0-f182.google.com with SMTP id h11so2265926wiw.15 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2015 15:55:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.61.18 with SMTP id l18mr175095360wjr.42.1420415737865; Sun, 04 Jan 2015 15:55:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.194.45.164 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jan 2015 15:55:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 00:55:37 +0100 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7ba982be7d2c1b050bdc4f7f Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] January 2015 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=2OsdYrlEGnmm2wBxZRiDsf-dOIPb-MtghRyKP3ZNPNdVExbg358 X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle From: =?UTF-8?Q?Karolina_W=C4=99grzyn?= --047d7ba982be7d2c1b050bdc4f7f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dawn, 2015-01-04 16:15 GMT+01:00 Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@gmail.com = [SilmarillionWritersGuild] : I= first set up the group on Yahoo! Groups and LiveJournal on March 15, > but= Uli and I did not begin inviting people to join until the end of July. > S= o I often say that the SWG's begetting day was March 15 and its birthday > = was around July 28 or so. :) > Good idea :) > > We still have quite a f= ew of our original members too. I think you might > be one? Or very close t= o it, if not! > I must be on one or early members (and not active in recen= t years), but I'm not sure if from 2005. I joined the site archive in 2007,= I cannot check when I joined the Yahoo group. I think I joined LJ group fi= rst. Either way time runs too fast! Regards, Sirielle . > > Dawn > > On = Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Karolina W=C4=99grzyn silalilte@gmail.com > [S= ilmarillionWritersGuild] > wrote= : > >> >> >> Hi Dawn, >> >> ten years of SWG, that's amazing (and scary how= fast time is running!). >> When is the anniversary? >> >> Regards, >> Siri= elle >> > > >> -- >> Karolina W=C4=99grzyn >> sirielle.weebly.com >> www.si= rielle.com >> > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/here= tic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > > > -- Ka= rolina W=C4=99grzyn sirielle.weebly.com www.sirielle.com --047d7ba982be7d2c1b050bdc4f7f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dawn,


2015-01-04 16:15 GMT+01:00 Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@gmail.com [SilmarillionWrit= ersGuild] <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com= >:

= =C2=A0I first set up the group on Yahoo! Groups and LiveJournal on M= arch 15, but Uli and I did not begin inviting people to join until the end = of July. So I often say that the SWG's begetting day was March 15 and i= ts birthday was around July 28 or so. :)

<= div>Good idea :)

=C2=A0

We still have quite a few of our original members t= oo. I think you might be one? Or very close to it, if not!

I must be on one or ear= ly members (and not active in recent years), but I'm not sure if from 2= 005. I joined the site archive in 2007, I cannot check when I joined the Ya= hoo group. I think I joined LJ group first. Either way time runs too fast!<= /div>

Regards,
Sirielle

. =C2=A0
=



--
Karolina W=C4=99grzyn=C2=A0
--047d7ba982be7d2c1b050bdc4f7f-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3610 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12245 invoked by uid 102); 5 Jan 2015 00:11:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2015 00:11:39 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 24045 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2015 00:11:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ig0-f171.google.com) (98.139.245.165) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2015 00:11:39 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ig0-f171.google.com with SMTP id z20so1728782igj.4 for ; Sun, 04 Jan 2015 16:11:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.13.97 with SMTP id g1mr8425792igc.42.1420416699289; Sun, 04 Jan 2015 16:11:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.107.55.68 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Jan 2015 16:11:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2015 19:11:39 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013d06e8cb5757050bdc886a Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] January 2015 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=ButqOR0DoMsRRdGtpH_rDZuSRtWRRQhaend6T7LqQ2tK4hp_jfOK X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --089e013d06e8cb5757050bdc886a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Karolina W=C4=99grzyn silalilte@gmail.com [= SilmarillionWritersGuild] wrote:= > I must be on one or early members (and not active in recent years), but = I'm not sure if from 2005. It took me a little while to find in the Neo fo= rmat (which I'm still not fully used to) but ... December 1, 2005! (For the= Yahoo list.) So you are very nearly an original member! :D Dawn -- ~oO= o~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.sil= marillionwritersguild.org --089e013d06e8cb5757050bdc886a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On S= un, Jan 4, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Karolina W=C4=99grzyn silalilte@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> wro= te:
>=C2=A0I must be on one or early mem= bers (and not active in recent years), but I'm not sure if from 2005.

It took= me a little while to find in the Neo format (which I'm still not fully= used to) but ... December 1, 2005! (For the Yahoo list.) So you are very n= early an original member! :D

Dawn

=
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
<= a href=3D"http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/">http://themidhavens.= net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--089e013d06e8cb5757050bdc886a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3611 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4859 invoked by uid 102); 5 Jan 2015 22:43:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2015 22:43:07 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 1880 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2015 22:43:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ig0-f175.google.com) (98.139.170.166) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2015 22:43:07 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ig0-f175.google.com with SMTP id h15so3273791igd.2 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2015 14:43:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.34.149 with SMTP id i143mr76486944ioi.20.1420497780872; Mon, 05 Jan 2015 14:43:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.107.55.68 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jan 2015 14:43:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 17:43:00 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11403270a21d98050bef6914 Subject: Re: Comment Notifications and Messages Not Being Received from the Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=WGKZ-L2_zl-7CXYm9anjuuocYWyzDCz5aY432CAoE6Uotg835ld- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a11403270a21d98050bef6914 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Several notifications have come through without a problem, so that it seems this issue is solved. However, if you continue to experience any issues with receiving email notifications, *please* let me know. You can always contact me directly or use the moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org address. The webhost claims to have done nothing to solve the problem. However, interestingly, other customers with this host have complained of their email accounts being blocked as spam without the customer being informed that this action was being taken. Customer service chats that these users have shared show that it takes 48 hours to resolve this problem. Coincidentally, about 48 hours after I filed the initial support request, email notifications are working again. It could just be coincidence, or it could be that they were indeed blocking our email as spam. In any case, as the person who pays for our hosting service every year (including quite a bit extra in spam protection on the very same email account that they may have been blocking), I am very interested to know if this happens again, so please let me know if you continue to have issues. Finally, thanks to everyone who helped us out these past few days by providing more details about how the problem was affecting them. This really does help a lot, and I appreciate it. All the best, Dawn On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > Hi, all, > > I just want to let you all know that we've had a couple instances of > members not receiving notifications of new comments or messages sent from > the SWG's archive. Rhapsody and I are trying to troubleshoot why this might > be (since we haven't done any updates or made any changes to the site since > we started having the problem). If you *do* happen to receive a review > notification or other email via the SWG archive, if you could let me know, > I'd be very appreciative (because that could help us to narrow down whether > it is a site issue or a Gmail issue, since all reports so far have come > from Gmail). > > I know this is a pain and do apologize to anyone affected or > inconvenienced by this problem. Please know we are working on it and hope > to have it resolved soon. > > All the best, > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a11403270a21d98050bef6914 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,

Several notifications hav= e come through without a problem, so that it seems this issue is solved. Ho= wever, if you continue to experience any=C2=A0issues with receiving email n= otifications, please=C2=A0let me know. You can always contact me dir= ectly or use the moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org address.

The webhost claims to have done nothing to solve the = problem. However, interestingly, other customers with this host have compla= ined of their email accounts being blocked as spam without the customer bei= ng informed that this action was being taken. Customer service chats that t= hese users have shared show that it takes 48 hours to resolve this problem.= Coincidentally, about 48 hours after I filed the initial support request, = email notifications are working again.

It could ju= st be coincidence, or it could be that they were indeed blocking our email = as spam. In any case, as the person who pays for our hosting service every = year (including quite a bit extra in spam protection on the very same email= account that they may have been blocking), I am very interested to know if= this happens again, so please let me know if you continue to have issues.<= /div>

Finally, thanks to everyone who helped us out thes= e past few days by providing more details about how the problem was affecti= ng them. This really does help a lot, and I appreciate it.

All the best,

Dawn


On Sat, Jan 3= , 2015 at 4:19 PM, Dawn Felagund <dawnfelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, all,
<= br>
I just want to let you all know that we've had a couple i= nstances of members not receiving notifications of new comments or messages= sent from the SWG's archive. Rhapsody and I are trying to troubleshoot= why this might be (since we haven't done any updates or made any chang= es to the site since we started having the problem). If you do=C2=A0= happen to receive a review notification or other email via the SWG archive,= if you could let me know, I'd be very appreciative (because that could= help us to narrow down whether it is a site issue or a Gmail issue, since = all reports so far have come from Gmail).

I know t= his is a pain and do apologize to anyone affected or inconvenienced by this= problem. Please know we are working on it and hope to have it resolved soo= n.

All the best,




--
<= div class=3D"gmail_signature">~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorema= ster/
http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001a11403270a21d98050bef6914-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3612 Return-Path: X-Sender: silalilte@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31170 invoked by uid 102); 5 Jan 2015 23:07:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2015 23:07:59 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 16477 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2015 23:07:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-wg0-f48.google.com) (98.139.170.167) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2015 23:07:59 -0000 X-Received: by mail-wg0-f48.google.com with SMTP id l2so3109291wgh.7 for ; Mon, 05 Jan 2015 15:07:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.206.165 with SMTP id lp5mr30601848wic.83.1420499278254; Mon, 05 Jan 2015 15:07:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.194.45.164 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jan 2015 15:07:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 00:07:58 +0100 Message-ID: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c383e4e25811050befc284 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] January 2015 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397490101; y=nVVINUjg36WZrHhNNMJXMU892_8VtpBVF2PaYRcgXstToW0HCQw X-Yahoo-Profile: hathorsisle From: =?UTF-8?Q?Karolina_W=C4=99grzyn?= --001a11c383e4e25811050befc284 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dawn, 2015-01-05 1:11 GMT+01:00 Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@gmail.com [= SilmarillionWritersGuild] : > > = > On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Karolina W=C4=99grzyn silalilte@gmail.com= > [SilmarillionWritersGuild] > = wrote: > > I must be on one or early members (and not active in recent year= s), but > I'm not sure if from 2005. > > It took me a little while to find = in the Neo format (which I'm still not > fully used to) but ... December 1,= 2005! (For the Yahoo list.) So you are > very nearly an original member! := D > Sounds great :D Thank you for finding it out :) I hope to be more acti= ve again, with time. Regards, Sirielle > > Dawn > > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn= Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmar= illionwritersguild.org > > > -- Karolina W=C4=99grzyn sirielle.weebly= .com www.sirielle.com --001a11c383e4e25811050befc284 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dawn,


2015-01-05 1:11 GMT+01:00 Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@gmail.com [SilmarillionWrite= rsGuild] <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com<= /a>>:
=C2=A0
=

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 6:55= PM, Karolina W=C4=99grzyn silalilte@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] <SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> wrote:<= /div>
>=C2=A0I must be on one or early members= (and not active in recent years), but I'm not sure if from 2005.
=

It t= ook me a little while to find in the Neo format (which I'm still not fu= lly used to) but ... December 1, 2005! (For the Yahoo list.) So you are ver= y nearly an original member! :D

Sounds great :D Thank you for finding it out= :) I hope to be more active again, with time.

Reg= ards,
Sirielle

=C2=A0



--
Karolina W=C4=99grzyn=C2=A0
--001a11c383e4e25811050befc284-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3613 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14927 invoked by uid 102); 19 Jan 2015 17:24:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2015 17:24:58 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 31940 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2015 17:24:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oi0-f49.google.com) (98.138.100.121) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2015 17:24:58 -0000 X-Received: by mail-oi0-f49.google.com with SMTP id a3so3996448oib.8 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:24:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.192.11 with SMTP id q11mr17906927oif.75.1421687837581; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:17:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.202.66.196 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:17:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 12:17:17 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113dd2768a66e5050d047e07 Subject: Re: Comment Notifications and Messages Not Being Received from the Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=my3JskS2HejaJI7nv0y4JN8-1hat24RdxhETlaq1Sk63XZ7aNddj X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a113dd2768a66e5050d047e07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I am once again requesting assistance in evaluating whether review notification, reply notifications, and private messages are being received through the SWG site. Between last night and this morning, two reviews and one review reply did not make it to me, so I am trying to gain an understanding of how far-reaching this problem is so that I can promptly file a ticket with the web host. If you have chosen to receive review and/or review reply notifications from the SWG archive, I would greatly appreciate it if you could let me know if you 1) do not receive an email when you have a new review or reply to a review you left or 2) DO receive the correct notifications. You can let me know at this address or at the moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org address. Thanks to everyone who is willing to help me out with this. I'll keep the group posted as I learn more. Take care, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a113dd2768a66e5050d047e07 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,
I am once again requesting assistance in evaluating whether re= view notification, reply notifications, and private messages are being rece= ived through the SWG site. Between last night and this morning, two reviews= and one review reply did not make it to me, so I am trying to gain an unde= rstanding of how far-reaching this problem is so that I can promptly file a= ticket with the web host.

If you have chosen to r= eceive review and/or review reply notifications from the SWG archive, I wou= ld greatly appreciate it if you could let me know if you 1) do not receive = an email when you have a new review or reply to a review you left or 2) DO = receive the correct notifications. You can let me know at this address or a= t the moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org address.

=
Thanks to everyone who is willing to help me out with this. I= 9;ll keep the group posted as I learn more.

Take c= are,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/http://www.silmarillio= nwritersguild.org
--001a113dd2768a66e5050d047e07-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3614 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28926 invoked by uid 102); 28 Jan 2015 02:53:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2015 02:53:12 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 18510 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2015 02:53:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oi0-f41.google.com) (98.139.245.163) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2015 02:53:12 -0000 X-Received: by mail-oi0-f41.google.com with SMTP id z81so15585246oif.0 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:53:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.148.98 with SMTP id tr2mr757858obb.28.1422413591677; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:53:11 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.202.66.196 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:53:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:53:11 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158ac6edb11e5050dad78da Subject: Re: Comment Notifications and Messages Not Being Received from the Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MdJWYyKo3hEYPwmrrrqx8VXWs-stXq8YQfk0ip234u1rfAHfaZfI X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --089e0158ac6edb11e5050dad78da Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, The problem of notification emails not being sent appears to have been resolved. We owe many, *many *thanks to Russa for handling this problem in the face of complete indifference from our webhost (whose problem it was!) and getting it solved. If you continue to experience *any* problems with notifications not being received, *PLEASE *let me know immediately! You can either post here or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org or email me privately or contact me though any place it is possible to contact me through (including snail mail and passenger pigeons). As evidenced by my abuse of caps and open contact policy, I really need to know if we're experiencing any further issues with this, and I can't know if I'm not told. :) Thank you all for your patience as we got this problem sorted out. Hopefully, we've seen the last of it. Russa, if we gave out gold stars, you'd get the one for January! :) Dawn On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > Hi, everyone, > > I am once again requesting assistance in evaluating whether review > notification, reply notifications, and private messages are being received > through the SWG site. Between last night and this morning, two reviews and > one review reply did not make it to me, so I am trying to gain an > understanding of how far-reaching this problem is so that I can promptly > file a ticket with the web host. > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e0158ac6edb11e5050dad78da Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,

The problem of notificati= on emails not being sent appears to have been resolved. We owe many, man= y thanks to Russa for handling this problem in the face of complete ind= ifference from our webhost (whose problem it was!) and getting it solved.

If you continue to experience any=C2=A0probl= ems with notifications not being received, P= LEASE=C2=A0let me know immediately! You can either post here or email u= s at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org or email me privately or= contact me though any place it is possible to contact me through (includin= g snail mail and passenger pigeons). As evidenced by my abuse of caps and o= pen contact policy, I really need to know if we're experiencing any fur= ther issues with this, and I can't know if I'm not told. :)

Thank you all for your patience as we got this problem so= rted out. Hopefully, we've seen the last of it. Russa, if we gave out g= old stars, you'd get the one for January! :)

D= awn

On Mon, Ja= n 19, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Dawn Felagund <dawnfelagund@gmail.com>= wrote:
Hi, everyone,

I am once aga= in requesting assistance in evaluating whether review notification, reply n= otifications, and private messages are being received through the SWG site.= Between last night and this morning, two reviews and one review reply did = not make it to me, so I am trying to gain an understanding of how far-reach= ing this problem is so that I can promptly file a ticket with the web host.=



--
~oOo~Dawn Felagund
h= ttp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--089e0158ac6edb11e5050dad78da-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3615 Return-Path: X-Sender: heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7790 invoked by uid 102); 28 Jan 2015 02:56:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2015 02:56:40 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 25410 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2015 02:56:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO omr-m06.mx.aol.com) (98.139.170.166) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2015 02:56:40 -0000 X-Received: from mtaomg-aan02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aan02.mx.aol.com [172.27.19.80]) by omr-m06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 6BFD17000008B for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:56:40 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from core-lja09d.mail.aol.com (core-lja09.mail.aol.com [10.76.9.9]) by mtaomg-aan02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id F247438000083 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:56:39 -0500 (EST) References: To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D208BD2C791C85_CB0_11D9D7_webmail-vm025.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail STANDARD X-Received: from 96.239.86.54 by webmail-vm025.sysops.aol.com (149.174.148.40) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:56:40 -0500 Message-Id: <8D208BD2C614EBB-CB0-5BCF3@webmail-vm025.sysops.aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:56:39 -0500 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b135054c84fe70d0a Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Comment Notifications and Messages Not Being Received from the Archive X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=wQrSg60tJ7RVRk8FbPr1AnYWPIUH8CLb0HoklThibcC_IbRQd0Hk X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun From: heartofoshun@aol.com ----------MB_8D208BD2C791C85_CB0_11D9D7_webmail-vm025.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Aww! Thank you so very much, Russa. I know you are really busy! --= ---Original Message----- From: Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@gmail.com [Silmar= illionWritersGuild] To: SWG Sent: Tue, Jan 27, 2015 9:53 pm Subj= ect: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Comment Notifications and Messages Not = Being Received from the Archive Hi, everyon= e, The problem of notification emails not being sent appears to have been= resolved. We owe many, many thanks to Russa for handling this problem in t= he face of complete indifference from our webhost (whose problem it was!) a= nd getting it solved. If you continue to experience any problems with not= ifications not being received, PLEASE let me know immediately! You can eith= er post here or email us at moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org o= r email me privately or contact me though any place it is possible to conta= ct me through (including snail mail and passenger pigeons). As evidenced by= my abuse of caps and open contact policy, I really need to know if we're e= xperiencing any further issues with this, and I can't know if I'm not told.= :) Thank you all for your patience as we got this problem sorted out. Ho= pefully, we've seen the last of it. Russa, if we gave out gold stars, you'd= get the one for January! :) Dawn On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Da= wn Felagund wrote: Hi, everyone, I am once aga= in requesting assistance in evaluating whether review notification, reply n= otifications, and private messages are being received through the SWG site.= Between last night and this morning, two reviews and one review reply did = not make it to me, so I am trying to gain an understanding of how far-reach= ing this problem is so that I can promptly file a ticket with the web host.= -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaste= r/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org ----------MB_8D208BD2C791C85_CB0_11D9D7_webmail-vm025.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Aww! Thank= you so very much, Russa. I know you are really busy!

<= /div>


-----Original Message-----<= br> From: Dawn Felagund DawnFelagund@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] =
To: SWG
Sent: Tue, Jan 27, 2015 9:53 pm Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Comment Notifications and Messag= es Not Being Received from the Archive

 
=
Hi, everyone, <= div>
The problem of notification emails not being sent = appears to have been resolved. We owe many, many thanks to Russa for= handling this problem in the face of complete indifference from our webhos= t (whose problem it was!) and getting it solved.

=
If you continue to experience any problems with notifi= cations not being received, PLEASE let me know immediately! You can either post here or email us at moderator= AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org or email me privately or contact me th= ough any place it is possible to contact me through (including snail mail a= nd passenger pigeons). As evidenced by my abuse of caps and open contact po= licy, I really need to know if we're experiencing any further issues with t= his, and I can't know if I'm not told. :)

Thank you all for your patience as we got this problem sorted out. Hopefu= lly, we've seen the last of it. Russa, if we gave out gold stars, you'd get= the one for January! :)

Dawn

On Mon, Jan 19, = 2015 at 12:17 PM, Dawn Felagund <dawnfelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, everyone,

I am once again requesting assistance in evaluating w= hether review notification, reply notifications, and private messages are b= eing received through the SWG site. Between last night and this morning, tw= o reviews and one review reply did not make it to me, so I am trying to gai= n an understanding of how far-reaching this problem is so that I can prompt= ly file a ticket with the web host.
<= /div>


<= /div>
=
----------MB_8D208BD2C791C85_CB0_11D9D7_webmail-vm025.sysops.aol.com-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3616 Return-Path: X-Sender: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7714 invoked by uid 102); 29 Jan 2015 15:14:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.33) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2015 15:14:17 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 25359 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2015 15:14:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n11-vm4.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.245.164) by mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2015 15:14:17 -0000 X-Received: from [72.30.235.67] by n11.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2015 15:14:17 -0000 X-Received: from [10.193.242.243] by t4.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2015 15:14:17 -0000 Date: 29 Jan 2015 07:14:17 -0800 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gapi2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2015 15:14:17 -0000 To: Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: elliefin@gmail.com X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-From: elliefin@gmail.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV" Reply-To: elliefin@gmail.com Subject: Fiondil X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=484523282; y=DoCi7qzHdBToCub0OJ7qQg7edwgGYWKeP4boJIPxNPeYyXqwnZU X-Yahoo-Profile: ellfine2000 From: elliefin@gmail.com --9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhpcyB3ZWVrIHRoZSBUb2xraWVuIGNvbW11bml0eSBsb3N0IGEgYmVsb3ZlZCBhbmQgcHJvbGlm aWMgbWVtYmVyLiBPdXIgYmVsb3ZlZCBGaW9uZGlsIHBhc3NlZCBwZWFjZWZ1bGx5IGluIGhpcyBz bGVlcC4gTGFzdCBJIGhlYXJkIHllc3RlcmRheSwgdGhlIGF1dGhvcml0aWVzIHdlcmUgc3RpbGwg dHJ5aW5nIHRvIGVzdGFibGlzaCB0aGUgdGltZSBvZiBkZWF0aC4gSSBjYW5ub3QgZG8ganVzdGlj ZSB0byBoaXMgbGlmZSwgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGRlc2NyaWJlIHdoYXQgYW4gYXdlc29tZSBwZXJzb24g aGUgd2FzLCB2ZXJ5IGdpdmluZywgdmVyeSBsb3ZpbmcsIGFuZCBtb3N0IHBhc3Npb25hdGUgYWJv dXQgdGhlIGxhbmd1YWdlcyBhbmQgbG9yZSBvZiBUb2xraWVuLiBIaXMgbWFueSB3b3JrcyBzcGVh ayBmb3IgdGhlbXNlbHZlcy4gDQogDQoNCiBJIGFtIHRvbyBkZWVwbHkgZ3JpZXZlZCB0byBiZWdp biB0byB0cnkgdG8gc2F5IHdoYXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHNhaWQgYWJvdXQgaGltLiBUaGlzIGlzIHN1 Y2ggYSBzaG9jay4gSGUgdXNlZCB0byBzZW5kIG1lIG5ldyBjaGFwdGVyIGJpdHMgZXZlcnkgbW9y bmluZyB0byBiZXRhIGFuZCBkaXNjdXNzLCBhcyBoZSBiZWxpZXZlZCBpbiB3cml0aW5nIGV2ZXJ5 IGRheS4gTW9uZGF5IG1vcm5pbmcsIGhlIGZhaWxlZCB0byBwb3N0IGF0IFNvQSBhZnRlciBkdXRp ZnVsbHkgcG9zdGluZyBhIG5ldyBjaGFwdGVyIGV2ZXJ5IE1vbmRheSBhbmQgZXZlcnkgRnJpZGF5 IGVhcmx5IGluIHRoZSBtb3JuaW5nLCBhbmQgdGhlbiBJIGhhZCBubyBuZXcgY2hhcHRlciBiaXRz IGZvciByZWFkaW5nIGFuZCBJIGtuZXcgYnkgOGFtIHRoYXQgc29tZXRoaW5nICB3YXMgd3Jvbmcu IEhpcyBvdGhlciBiZXRhLCBBbGFzc2llbCwgYW5kIEkgYXJlIG5vdCB2ZXJ5IGdvb2QgYXQgY3li ZXIgc3RhbGtpbmcsIGJ1dCB3ZSBleHBsb3JlZCBhbGwgb2YgdGhlIHBvc3NpYmlsaXRpZXMgd2Ug Y291bGQgIHRoaW5rIG9mLiBFYXJseSBXZWRuZXNkYXkgKHllc3RlcmRheSkgYWZ0ZXJub29uLCB0 aGUgbG9jYWwgc2hlcmlmZidzIGRlcGFydG1lbnQgdG9sZCBBbGFzc2llbCB0aGF0IGhlIHdhcyBo ZSB3YXMgZm91bmQgZGVhZCBpbiBoaXMgaG9tZSBXZWRuZXNkYXkgbW9ybmluZy4NCiANCg0KIEkg ZG8gbm90IGtub3cgd2hhdCBlbHNlIHRvIHNheS4gSSBkbyBub3Qga25vdyBob3cgdG8gZ2l2ZSBo aW0gdGhlIGhvbm9yIGFuZCB0cmlidXRlIGhlIGRlc2VydmVzLg0KIA0KDQogWW91cnMgaW4gZ3Jp ZWYsDQogRWxsaWUNCg== --9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV Content-Type: text/html; 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[212.204.169.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id cy8sm3030116wib.9.2015.01.29.07.57.54 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Jan 2015 07:57:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54CA588D.8000503@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 16:58:05 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: rhapsody74@gmail.com Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fiondil X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206927411; y=CKoVTsTEZP3qGbwuyt2kvcMn2_6e_xx1h9isdYTLPWKJEu-P0aATFcs X-Yahoo-Profile: rhapsody_the_bard From: Rhapsody Dear Ellie and others who knew him so well. Your words here speak of so much of friendship and passion of writing you shared with him: it is a tribute that speaks for itself. I did not know him myself, but the few times we did encounter each other was incredibly nice. He may have stepped out of time (a local saying here), but he leaves behind a heritage in written words for many still to enjoy. Here's to Fiondil and warm hugs for you. Rhapsody On 29-1-2015 16:14, elliefin@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] wrote: > This week the Tolkien community lost a beloved and prolific member. Our > beloved Fiondil passed peacefully in his sleep. Last I heard yesterday, > the authorities were still trying to establish the time of death. I > cannot do justice to his life, trying to describe what an awesome person > he was, very giving, very loving, and most passionate about the > languages and lore of Tolkien. His many works speak for themselves. > > > I am too deeply grieved to begin to try to say what should be said about > him. This is such a shock. He used to send me new chapter bits every > morning to beta and discuss, as he believed in writing every day. Monday > morning, he failed to post at SoA after dutifully posting a new chapter > every Monday and every Friday early in the morning, and then I had no > new chapter bits for reading and I knew by 8am that something was > wrong. His other beta, Alassiel, and I are not very good at cyber > stalking, but we explored all of the possibilities we could think of. > Early Wednesday (yesterday) afternoon, the local sheriff's department > told Alassiel that he was he was found dead in his home Wednesday morning. > > > I do not know what else to say. I do not know how to give him the honor > and tribute he deserves. > > > Yours in grief, > > Ellie > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3618 Return-Path: X-Sender: ellin_revenger@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29882 invoked by uid 102); 29 Jan 2015 16:06:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.36) by m8.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2015 16:06:40 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 13628 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2015 16:06:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO nm1-vm7.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.138.100.120) by mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2015 16:06:39 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.12.189] by nm1.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2015 16:06:38 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.12.244] by tm10.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2015 16:06:38 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1052.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2015 16:06:38 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 566558.83950.bm@omp1052.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: QEU7LP0VM1mav5U3DqoR9JSekjeghe74ly_2vFXOLQgDbuqYh0yIIg4calgxowI ojP1INm6G4nh1NZGqhpdrVEFnrIyPbaBHIiHRiyfQbyhXIV2E_RrVTSGmJvSu7Ej1C0wml_95ViH o5laK7JrkGbZpgea647kv_z2Ec3fWF4iebRWXvrj06EFe1c3hWpvCgeaER3cX83qgM50z.N76U7R BI5XcxcfC_IT9Jy3u77f3SLA9fBy3V3AiI5tU4DjqVfdPHXH4vOztB6csUKqvopnJ1WMmT1AUCQJ m3qwX8GYissz.jxClSFOs2cCHghRBMs0oY3AypkRf9lWdwwlJE8ggyPGKsgXeJFFPBoPyygcjEew 165LEUCjQaZ5yvZCtM0Cm3haD1HjHa_E.vAzvhOgN0MuwOkFrGu2gTwUSdKJB4pMrhYPhs7fp_Jl TV4EIrdr0X6FvIhKaFdDTwE0K3WA2_fkU5AkG8zRAlqg8Hv7Qz7oTQ_NWQwi5YluPUG5anTTCRxS urQRE1g1Xi0ix8iCpv28f4O.K7DCDUvdXStdh1DR9BIMhZohXq73ABabw4kNU5nPwcuHANf0MLUg 6i3SMRChqapTP_GJan2WO4XhTq4BqMNFt_T2s.hOeMR5tOSQSutscsIt9YNwn.ko5TVAIAQTBNaJ oV5XCs8AXnex54XjBWnwt113D57NCzS2IT2SKYPy.aGbqiiZH1Sg9UOhNtzLdKanI3Yzi1J_L9T6 OXagdS.EwiZfxjONtDgndxFa9C5fIzYk8WXNW33aNN6iEZwOWPhqG0EPA_fTvvmM_4ewNKXaXkTl bqx4YIx8ytkeUyTxyRveimBP7zFfNuo2BG9AYdsrG3DBBVa3XsgMCKamIz8oqXfktLzI07oWjGKp 7NTuuRlacJUpoVZ0JaNQKRK7c1Ma_trbvtRasf_UxNO0aNwedVXkcRT24cWmCkCWhQSoaVXxv428 BvRO.fAff9IP.dRxhIB_x2Bpan7KM9SGWuIU6uETnW9RhoHct2qmabMpcrOsxD2dRVy2oltX1Fhd a5RbMnAFJi_qbhpp3KXAPNbWBklGn8emEB7ea_cEMhvw6_kSl1ll2RkWx0.R6Ncjb6lH1BuDAjcO y_vsPjgXGWIVzv7q4A4OYMWpYXvNW.OjBo9clpbdl15TE2E2POHBwAElexzg2M.g.03jUa9__1M6 AlgaIf0niiQfFdke.cuY2P2tlAdkjO9FqWaHfu7_wk4Rr.yFioJ_ESkIhvnE84h1xlpzXT3I1Wwt arBEamr49M60vRtsowJPfKAGNPoRDEx2gcjhOiW_Y4Bt0QGqVNfQ39e0ZKI651XxMW_GoicEY7nY 8bKdtK7PZG7PjJQ.li9evWXK_4F5c_Bu_h_TLS7VCZuGjdLZhXFdxWkVgH.LdrBCUe35fsv48wJS aIgpnp_iTehVTag0GJb50uG.PHhg5ujG7zynwA4ELoUP3pPC9LiQWtPQuT4mIAMy53ejq8MA3gJK 7oSRNtFMO1BtuiUUcMbKrhxoWX.oAN2Kdey2LQBzZOz8Uff6__pRXVZFsv1tvlTmL4ozAf2WWPvZ kqcaqPcBNgALiJZEZuEemqNdUmyL9.s8Q7kqKm72ahRgwrKGMVR9ijvRnCufMB9qxV_woJh7zbOk 97FPM4NSpHWrj551tBmVLvjUManmecQXQz_lCGLre495cdDfhvF__otmaxUVEQyhoTr4Iy2MZjQ2 PmGW8LhmAOxsX4jMC2uNfW2tzrQ9hptD1aP.ocRBDo_ZH.PlOk0Tf0fws1bzFO1BCX98ppT3oHVd YHDKmaEL07IwOz_Wl8ivYA61nNoF2aoMRCYG4mH4WMdUHonykIEzscLQ3IOCc0y9xdyEbTcTpiiA yEGBOERwWyFJqPdm2PHDgKoS0MjPRaKY20EW0qCchS.gNkvbcNTRd X-Received: by 216.39.60.202; Thu, 29 Jan 2015 16:06:38 +0000 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 16:06:37 +0000 (UTC) To: "SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <529629170.579354.1422547597566.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <54CA588D.8000503@gmail.com> References: <54CA588D.8000503@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_579353_2138147465.1422547597556" Content-Length: 24403 Reply-To: Ellin Ithilwen Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fiondil X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=401733726; y=SYQj3czc8XzECI-d124xv28ZjC3CguuHJYvrfRoX0MHB5vfQhgOatLY X-Yahoo-Profile: ellin_revenger From: Ellin Ithilwen ------=_Part_579353_2138147465.1422547597556 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I didn't know him well, but we spoke a few times and he was really nice and= kind. I'm sad to hear this. :( On Thursday, January 29, 2015 4:58 = PM, "Rhapsody rhapsody74@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild]" wrote: =C2=A0 Dear Ellie and others = who knew him so well. Your words here speak of so much of friendship and p= assion of writing you shared with him: it is a tribute that speaks for its= elf. I did not know him myself, but the few times we did encounter each ot= her was incredibly nice. He may have stepped out of time (a local saying = here), but he leaves behind a heritage in written words for many still to = enjoy. Here's to Fiondil and warm hugs for you. Rhapsody On 29-1-2015 16= :14, elliefin@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] wrote: > This week the T= olkien community lost a beloved and prolific member. Our > beloved Fiondil = passed peacefully in his sleep. Last I heard yesterday, > the authorities w= ere still trying to establish the time of death. I > cannot do justice to h= is life, trying to describe what an awesome person > he was, very giving, v= ery loving, and most passionate about the > languages and lore of Tolkien. = His many works speak for themselves. > > > I am too deeply grieved to begin= to try to say what should be said about > him. This is such a shock. He us= ed to send me new chapter bits every > morning to beta and discuss, as he b= elieved in writing every day. Monday > morning, he failed to post at SoA af= ter dutifully posting a new chapter > every Monday and every Friday early i= n the morning, and then I had no > new chapter bits for reading and I knew = by 8am that something was > wrong. His other beta, Alassiel, and I are not = very good at cyber > stalking, but we explored all of the possibilities we = could think of. > Early Wednesday (yesterday) afternoon, the local sheriff'= s department > told Alassiel that he was he was found dead in his home Wedn= esday morning. > > > I do not know what else to say. I do not know how to g= ive him the honor > and tribute he deserves. > > > Yours in grief, > > Elli= e > > #yiv5123988987 #yiv5123988987 -- #yiv5123988987ygrp-mkp {border:1= px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv512398= 8987 #yiv5123988987ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv5123988987 #y= iv5123988987ygrp-mkp #yiv5123988987hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-wei= ght:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv5123988987 #yiv5123988987ygrp-m= kp #yiv5123988987ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv5123988987 #yiv5123988987ygrp= -mkp .yiv5123988987ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv5123988987 #yiv5123988987ygrp-mkp .= yiv5123988987ad p {margin:0;}#yiv5123988987 #yiv5123988987ygrp-mkp .yiv5123= 988987ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5123988987 #yiv51239889= 87ygrp-sponsor #yiv5123988987ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv5123988987 #yi= v5123988987ygrp-sponsor #yiv5123988987ygrp-lc #yiv5123988987hd {margin:10px= 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I did= n't know him well, but we spoke a few times and he was really nice and kind= . I'm sad to hear this. :(


On Thursday, January 29, 2015 4:= 58 PM, "Rhapsody rhapsody74@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild]" wrote:


=
 
Dear Ellie and others who k= new him so well.

Your words here spe= ak of so much of friendship and passion of writing
you = shared with him: it is a tribute that speaks for itself.
=
I did not know him myself, but the few times we did en= counter each other
was incredibly nice.

He may have stepped out of time (a local saying her= e), but he leaves
behind a heritage in written words fo= r many still to enjoy.

Here's to Fio= ndil and warm hugs for you.

Rhapsody=

On 29-1-2015 16:14, elliefin@gmail.= com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] wrote:
> This week the= Tolkien community lost a beloved and prolific member. Our
> beloved Fiondil passed peacefully in his sleep. Last I heard yester= day,
> the authorities were still trying to establish= the time of death. I
> cannot do justice to his life= , trying to describe what an awesome person
> he was,= very giving, very loving, and most passionate about the
= > languages and lore of Tolkien. His many works speak for themselves. >
>
> I am= too deeply grieved to begin to try to say what should be said about
> him. This is such a shock. He used to send me new chapter= bits every
> morning to beta and discuss, as he beli= eved in writing every day. Monday
> morning, he faile= d to post at SoA after dutifully posting a new chapter
&= gt; every Monday and every Friday early in the morning, and then I had no > new chapter bits for reading and I knew by 8am that = something was
> wrong. His other beta, Alassiel, and= I are not very good at cyber
> stalking, but we expl= ored all of the possibilities we could think of.
> E= arly Wednesday (yesterday) afternoon, the local sheriff's department
> told Alassiel that he was he was found dead in his home W= ednesday morning.
>
>
> I do not know what else to say. I do not know how to give h= im the honor
> and tribute he deserves.
>
>
> Yours in grief,<= br clear=3D"none"> >
> Ellie
&g= t;
>

=
=


------=_Part_579353_2138147465.1422547597556-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3619 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3768 invoked by uid 102); 29 Jan 2015 17:46:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.33) by m5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2015 17:46:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 17554 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2015 17:46:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oi0-f47.google.com) (98.139.170.166) by mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2015 17:46:38 -0000 X-Received: by mail-oi0-f47.google.com with SMTP id a141so29240316oig.6 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2015 09:46:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.179.37 with SMTP id dd5mr1200964oec.4.1422553598168; Thu, 29 Jan 2015 09:46:38 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.202.16.17 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jan 2015 09:46:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 12:46:38 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0117606be493ba050dce11b6 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Fiondil X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=jDiPzsOOC5QktPk4Fowmeu6rE8GWwRUpKYFa4swklChKAWvFGuh6 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --089e0117606be493ba050dce11b6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Ellie and everyone, I am so very sorry for your loss. Fiondil and I did not know each other well--we only spoke on a couple of occasions--but his impact on the Tolkien fandom and, most importantly, on the lives of his friends and loved ones is indelible. Despite not knowing well, I knew he inspired, supported, and encouraged so many people, and his stories were beloved and influential in how people saw Tolkien's world. That speaks volumes for the person he was and the memory he leaves behind. I know the grief is new and raw, but if there ends up being a tribute or anything planned in his memory, please keep us posted. I know many people here would want to participate and pay their respects. Dawn On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 10:14 AM, elliefin@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] wrote: > > > This week the Tolkien community lost a beloved and prolific member. Our > beloved Fiondil passed peacefully in his sleep. Last I heard yesterday, the > authorities were still trying to establish the time of death. I cannot do > justice to his life, trying to describe what an awesome person he was, very > giving, very loving, and most passionate about the languages and lore of > Tolkien. His many works speak for themselves > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e0117606be493ba050dce11b6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Ellie and everyone,

I am so very so= rry for your loss. Fiondil and I did not know each other well--we only spok= e on a couple of occasions--but his impact on the Tolkien fandom and, most = importantly, on the lives of his friends and loved ones is indelible. Despi= te not knowing well, I knew he inspired, supported, and encouraged so many = people, and his stories were beloved and influential in how people saw Tolk= ien's world. That speaks volumes for the person he was and the memory h= e leaves behind.

I know the grief is new and raw, = but if there ends up being a tribute or anything planned in his memory, ple= ase keep us posted. I know many people here would want to participate and p= ay their respects.

--089e0117606be493ba050dce11b6-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3620 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6628 invoked by uid 102); 2 Feb 2015 15:39:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.37) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2015 15:39:16 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 26286 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2015 15:39:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f179.google.com) (98.138.215.83) by mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2015 15:39:16 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f179.google.com with SMTP id wp4so3118466obc.10 for ; Mon, 02 Feb 2015 07:39:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.80.199 with SMTP id e190mr11681146oib.75.1422891555465; Mon, 02 Feb 2015 07:39:15 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.202.16.17 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 07:39:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 10:39:15 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113b1c00b7aeca050e1cc128 Subject: International Day of Fanworks Challenge X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=unTbaX06iKqiqPXL-0Jts5kohvzWvxzEuMow8SstzE3L_6jCVN9- X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a113b1c00b7aeca050e1cc128 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, This year, the Organization for Transformative Works is sponsoring the International Day of Fanworks on February 15. The SWG is holding an event in celebration of the IDoF. I will include the guidelines below. *Guidelines for Writers* 1. In order to participate, comment with a request for a *writer's prompt *here or on one of our other sites: LJ: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/251760.html DW: http://silwritersguild.dreamwidth.org/11557.html Send us a message/ask on Tumblr: http://silmarillionwritersguild.tumblr.com/ Email us: moderator AT silmarillionwritersguild DOT org We will send you three randomly selected prompts from our list of challenges. Your task is to create a fanwork using all three of these challenges. 2. You may replace one of your assigned challenges with the challenge of your choice. The complete list of SWG challenges can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/challenges/bydate.php 3. Your response should be based in *The Silmarillion* but may be any length, genre, form, and employ any characters, pairings, or interpretations that you choose. (See our definition of "Silmfic" here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/about/faq/faq3.php) It is also up to you to determine if your response adequately meets your assigned challenges. Although our challenges are aimed at writers, if you can create another form of fanwork using your challenges, feel free to do so! 4. Post your challenge on LiveJournal or Dreamwidth before February 15 or send it as a submission to our tumblr. The LJ and DW communities have been temporarily been set to moderated status, and all challenge entries will be unlocked on February 15. If you do not use any of these sites, please contact us to make arrangements for how to post the story to the archive. Once your story has been unlocked, we encourage you to post it to the SWG archive and any other sites/archives you use! *Guidelines for Reviewers* 1. In order to participate, comment with a request for a *reviewer's prompt* here or at one of the sites linked above. We will send you three randomly selected challenges from our list of challenges with links to the stories that listed those challenges. Your task is to review at least one story created for each of the challenges. 2. You may replace one of your assigned challenges with the challenge of your choice. The complete list of SWG challenges can be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/challenges/bydate.php 3. Leave your reviews and comment on our LJ or DW (linked above) or email us to let us know when you do! Any questions, please let us know! :) Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a113b1c00b7aeca050e1cc128 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

This year, the Organization fo= r Transformative Works is sponsoring the International Day of Fanworks on F= ebruary 15. The SWG is holding an event in celebration of the IDoF. I will = include the guidelines below.

Guidelines f= or Writers

1. In order to participate, comment= with a request for a writer's prompt here or on one of our othe= r sites:

Send us a message/ask on Tumblr:=C2=A0http://silmarillionwrite= rsguild.tumblr.com/
Email us: moderator AT silmari= llionwritersguild DOT org

= We will send you three randomly selected prompts from our list of challenge= s. Your task is to create a fanwork using all three of these challenges.

2. You may replace one of your assigned challenges w= ith the challenge of your choice. The complete list of SWG challenges can b= e found here:=C2=A0http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/challenges/bydate= .php

3. Your response should be based in Th= e Silmarillion but may be any length, genre, form, and employ any chara= cters, pairings, or interpretations that you choose. (See our definition of= "Silmfic" here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/about/faq/fa= q3.php) It is also up to you to determine if your response adequately m= eets your assigned challenges. Although our challenges are aimed at writers= , if you can create another form of fanwork using your challenges, feel fre= e to do so!

4. Post your challenge on LiveJournal = or Dreamwidth before February 15 or send it as a submission to our tumblr. = The LJ and DW communities have been temporarily been set to moderated statu= s, and all challenge entries will be unlocked on February 15. If you do not= use any of these sites, please contact us to make arrangements for how to = post the story to the archive. Once your story has been unlocked, we encour= age you to post it to the SWG archive and any other sites/archives you use!=


Guidelines for Reviewers

1. In order to participate, comment with a request f= or a reviewer's prompt=C2=A0here or at one of the sites linked a= bove.=C2=A0We will send you three randomly selected challenges from our lis= t of challenges with links to the stories that listed those challenges. You= r task is to review at least one story created for each of the challenges.<= /div>

2. You may replace one of your assigned challenges= with the challenge of your choice. The complete list of SWG challenges can= be found here: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/challenges/bydate.ph= p

3. Leave your reviews and comment on our LJ = or DW (linked above) or email us to let us know when you do!

=
Any questions, please let us know! :)

D= awn

--
~oOo~
Dawn= Felagund
http:/= /themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001a113b1c00b7aeca050e1cc128-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3621 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39282 invoked by uid 102); 3 Feb 2015 01:01:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m17.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2015 01:01:18 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 30048 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2015 01:01:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f175.google.com) (98.138.100.121) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2015 01:01:18 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f175.google.com with SMTP id va2so8027209obc.6 for ; Mon, 02 Feb 2015 17:01:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.80.199 with SMTP id e190mr13056900oib.75.1422925277824; Mon, 02 Feb 2015 17:01:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.202.16.17 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 17:01:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 20:01:17 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113b1c00ba0ea6050e249bdb Subject: February 2015 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=7Kbkm6R8Yfj6l35s9qrkLX6hZQfPrWkCXfU0EwpCCR6sjxPv67VB X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a113b1c00ba0ea6050e249bdb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Our February newsletter has been posted! We have lots of stuff to share this month, so I hope you'll give it a look. http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/challenges/byname.php We have an unusual amount of news from within the SWG to kick off the New Year: Site Etiquette updates, bugs fixed, archive milestones reached, and more, so do check it out. We are also sponsoring an event for the International Day of Fanworks; I sent a message to the group about it yesterday, but if you missed it, the newsletter has everything you need to know to participate. Robinka has written this month's character biography on Carcharoth, and I absolutely encourage you to take a look--she did a wonderful job! Carcharoth was honestly a character I did not think much about, but Binka's essay has made me see him in a new light, as a pivotal character with a complicated history in the legendarium (which Binka breaks down nicely). The connections between Carcharoth and real world myth, especially Norse, were fascinating as well. If you're looking for a story or poem to read, we had thirty stories added or updated during January, so you should find plenty to keep you busy. This month's Around the World and Web has articles and posts on a variety of topics, from women in Middle-earth to planning a trip to Mordor. If you're looking for something to write, our First Lines challenge is ongoing, and we revisit The Color Of ..., a challenge that requires writers to construct a story around a color used as a mood or symbol. Finally, in Around the World and Web, we have announcements from beyond our borders. This is a busy time in the Tolkien fandom, and we have everything from writing challenges to movie marathons to read-alongs to keep you busy in the depths of winter (or give our Southern Hemisphere members an excuse to stay indoors and out of the heat). My sincerest thanks go out to the volunteers who produced the content for this month's newsletter: Robinka, Rhapsody, and Russandol. Thank you all for your hard work! :) I hope everyone enjoys the new edition! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a113b1c00ba0ea6050e249bdb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,

Our February newsletter h= as been posted! We have lots of stuff to share this month, so I hope you= 9;ll give it a look.


We have an unu= sual amount of news from within the SWG to kick off the New Year: Site Etiq= uette updates, bugs fixed, archive milestones reached, and more, so do chec= k it out. We are also sponsoring an event for the International Day of Fanw= orks; I sent a message to the group about it yesterday, but if you missed i= t, the newsletter has everything you need to know to participate.

Robinka has written this month's character biography on= Carcharoth, and I absolutely encourage you to take a look--she did a wonde= rful job! Carcharoth was honestly a character I did not think much about, b= ut Binka's essay has made me see him in a new light, as a pivotal chara= cter with a complicated history in the legendarium (which Binka breaks down= nicely). The connections between Carcharoth and real world myth, especiall= y Norse, were fascinating as well.

If you're l= ooking for a story or poem to read, we had thirty stories added or updated = during January, so you should find plenty to keep you busy. This month'= s Around the World and Web has articles and posts on a variety of topics, f= rom women in Middle-earth to planning a trip to Mordor. If you're looki= ng for something to write, our First Lines challenge is ongoing, and we rev= isit The Color Of ..., a challenge that requires writers to construct a sto= ry around a color used as a mood or symbol.

Finall= y, in Around the World and Web, we have announcements from beyond our borde= rs. This is a busy time in the Tolkien fandom, and we have everything from = writing challenges to movie marathons to read-alongs to keep you busy in th= e depths of winter (or give our Southern Hemisphere members an excuse to st= ay indoors and out of the heat).

My sincerest than= ks go out to the volunteers who produced the content for this month's n= ewsletter: Robinka, Rhapsody, and Russandol. Thank you all for your hard wo= rk! :)

I hope everyone enjoys the new edition!

--001a113b1c00ba0ea6050e249bdb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3622 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6004 invoked by uid 102); 3 Feb 2015 02:31:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.33) by m2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2015 02:31:59 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 309 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2015 02:31:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oi0-f51.google.com) (98.138.215.81) by mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2015 02:31:59 -0000 X-Received: by mail-oi0-f51.google.com with SMTP id x69so47182553oia.10 for ; Mon, 02 Feb 2015 18:31:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.215.163 with SMTP id oj3mr13999024obc.49.1422930281443; Mon, 02 Feb 2015 18:24:41 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.202.16.17 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 18:24:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 21:24:41 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2c2cef736d8050e25c5d0 Subject: Re: February 2015 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=LDMFxvcnxku9s4k8T7fcR09OZ6rzZtF5styzVXdvhANO9w4Mpda7 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a11c2c2cef736d8050e25c5d0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I pasted in the wrong link for the newsletter. Here is the correct one: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/february2015.php Sorry for the mix-up! Dawn On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > Hi, everyone, > > Our February newsletter has been posted! We have lots of stuff to share > this month, so I hope you'll give it a look. > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/challenges/byname.php > > We have an unusual amount of news from within the SWG to kick off the New > Year: Site Etiquette updates, bugs fixed, archive milestones reached, and > more, so do check it out. We are also sponsoring an event for the > International Day of Fanworks; I sent a message to the group about it > yesterday, but if you missed it, the newsletter has everything you need to > know to participate. > > Robinka has written this month's character biography on Carcharoth, and I > absolutely encourage you to take a look--she did a wonderful job! > Carcharoth was honestly a character I did not think much about, but Binka's > essay has made me see him in a new light, as a pivotal character with a > complicated history in the legendarium (which Binka breaks down nicely). > The connections between Carcharoth and real world myth, especially Norse, > were fascinating as well. > > If you're looking for a story or poem to read, we had thirty stories added > or updated during January, so you should find plenty to keep you busy. This > month's Around the World and Web has articles and posts on a variety of > topics, from women in Middle-earth to planning a trip to Mordor. If you're > looking for something to write, our First Lines challenge is ongoing, and > we revisit The Color Of ..., a challenge that requires writers to construct > a story around a color used as a mood or symbol. > > Finally, in Around the World and Web, we have announcements from beyond > our borders. This is a busy time in the Tolkien fandom, and we have > everything from writing challenges to movie marathons to read-alongs to > keep you busy in the depths of winter (or give our Southern Hemisphere > members an excuse to stay indoors and out of the heat). > > My sincerest thanks go out to the volunteers who produced the content for > this month's newsletter: Robinka, Rhapsody, and Russandol. Thank you all > for your hard work! :) > > I hope everyone enjoys the new edition! > > Dawn > > -- > ~oOo~ > Dawn Felagund > http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a11c2c2cef736d8050e25c5d0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,

I pasted in the wrong lin= k for the newsletter. Here is the correct one:


Sorry for the mix-up!

Dawn


On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Dawn Felagund <dawnfelagund@gmail.c= om> wrote:
Hi, everyone,

Our February newsletter has been posted! = We have lots of stuff to share this month, so I hope you'll give it a l= ook.


We have an u= nusual amount of news from within the SWG to kick off the New Year: Site Et= iquette updates, bugs fixed, archive milestones reached, and more, so do ch= eck it out. We are also sponsoring an event for the International Day of Fa= nworks; I sent a message to the group about it yesterday, but if you missed= it, the newsletter has everything you need to know to participate.

Robinka has written this month's character biography = on Carcharoth, and I absolutely encourage you to take a look--she did a won= derful job! Carcharoth was honestly a character I did not think much about,= but Binka's essay has made me see him in a new light, as a pivotal cha= racter with a complicated history in the legendarium (which Binka breaks do= wn nicely). The connections between Carcharoth and real world myth, especia= lly Norse, were fascinating as well.

If you're= looking for a story or poem to read, we had thirty stories added or update= d during January, so you should find plenty to keep you busy. This month= 9;s Around the World and Web has articles and posts on a variety of topics,= from women in Middle-earth to planning a trip to Mordor. If you're loo= king for something to write, our First Lines challenge is ongoing, and we r= evisit The Color Of ..., a challenge that requires writers to construct a s= tory around a color used as a mood or symbol.

Fina= lly, in Around the World and Web, we have announcements from beyond our bor= ders. This is a busy time in the Tolkien fandom, and we have everything fro= m writing challenges to movie marathons to read-alongs to keep you busy in = the depths of winter (or give our Southern Hemisphere members an excuse to = stay indoors and out of the heat).

My sincerest th= anks go out to the volunteers who produced the content for this month's= newsletter: Robinka, Rhapsody, and Russandol. Thank you all for your hard = work! :)

I hope everyone enjoys the new edition!




--
~oOo~
Dawn= Felagund
http:/= /themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001a11c2c2cef736d8050e25c5d0-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3623 Return-Path: X-Sender: red.lasbelin@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27594 invoked by uid 102); 14 Feb 2015 21:41:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m13.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2015 21:41:59 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 10253 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2015 21:41:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f176.google.com) (98.139.245.163) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2015 21:41:59 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f176.google.com with SMTP id wo20so31311212obc.7; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:41:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.60.70.141 with SMTP id m13mr10904451oeu.86.1423950118890; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:41:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.76.71.73 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:41:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 16:41:38 -0500 Message-ID: To: Erestor_lovers@yahoogroups.com, glorfindel_of_imladris@yahoogroups.com, SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Adult_Fiction@yahoogroups.com, lotrallslash@yahoogroups.com, LittleBalrog@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11335a2203b544050f133944 Subject: The My Slashy Valentine 2015 Archive is OPEN! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=209669533; y=lNyfpWp9FCDJ6f_Coy0WzU9tZ-umPGLCxywqqUn1ZzG3J1OV8stn X-Yahoo-Profile: red_lasbelin From: Red --001a11335a2203b544050f133944 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 They're here! They're here! The My Slashy Valentine stories are here! We have 42 stories on Archive of Our Own from our 2015 My Slashy Valentine fic exchange. There is something for every reader: slash and femslash, every rating, LoTR and Silm alike. Just head on over to the AO3 collection: http://archiveofourown.org/collections/2015_MSV/ and don't forget to drop the writers a line or two after you read them! Red The MSV Admin --001a11335a2203b544050f133944 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
They'r= e here! They're here! The My Slashy Valentine stories are here!<= br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px">
We have 42 = stories on Archive of Our Own from our 2015 My Slashy Valentine=C2=A0fic exchange.=C2=A0 There = is something for every=C2=A0reader: slash and femslash, every rating, LoTR and Silm alike.=C2= =A0Just head on over= to the AO3=C2=A0col= lection:=C2=A0http://archiveofourown.org/collections/2015_MSV/=C2=A0and don't=C2=A0forget to drop the writers a line or t= wo after you read them!

Red
The MSV Admin
<= /div> --001a11335a2203b544050f133944-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3624 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27348 invoked by uid 102); 26 Feb 2015 16:04:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2015 16:04:59 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 1849 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2015 16:04:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oi0-f44.google.com) (98.139.245.164) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2015 16:04:59 -0000 X-Received: by mail-oi0-f44.google.com with SMTP id a3so10118348oib.3; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 08:04:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.215.163 with SMTP id oj3mr6593006obc.49.1424966699067; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 08:04:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.202.16.17 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 08:04:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 11:04:59 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC , Henneth Annun Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2c2ceea3021050fffe962 Subject: Back to Middle-earth Month 2015: Middle-earth Marketplace X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=SD2g28vVVTMiunYc72wRtx7lBwHvUCRtWsNx3T02Yl0M1WsVUkUP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a11c2c2ceea3021050fffe962 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 March is right around the corner, which means it is time for the Tolkien fandom's annual holiday, Back to Middle-earth Month! This year, B2MeM journeys to the Tharbad's Greenway Spring Faire, where creators of fanworks can sell and purchase prompts to inspire the stories, art, podfics, poetry, videos, meta, and any other fanworks you can dream up to post during the month of March! The full guidelines can be found here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/278368.html But the concept is fairly straightforward. All participants begin with 15 farthings. All participants can "sell" prompts at one of the market stalls for other participants to use in creating fanworks, and all participants can "buy" those prompts they want to create fanworks for. It costs one farthing to sell a prompt at a stall, and one farthing to purchase a prompt in order to create a fanwork. More farthings can be earned by commenting on the fanworks created for B2MeM 2015 or through helping out around the faire (creating banners, volunteering, etc.). Fanworks can be posted to the B2MeM community or anywhere else you please--we encourage cross-posting! Want to see what's for sale so far at the faire? Have an idea for a prompt that you'd like to see handled by other creators? The master list of faire stalls (organized by location) can be found here: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/284442.html And if you're dreadful at bookkeeping and want help keeping track of your coin, we have a bookkeeper on hand to help: http://b2mem.livejournal.com/278595.html B2MeM is open to anyone who cares to participate. You do not need to be a member of the B2MeM community, and our only restriction on what can be created is that it must have a basis in Tolkien. Crossover, AU, Silmfic, Hobbits, Dwarves, Ents, OCs, het, slash, gen, all ratings, themes, and interpretations--you are limited only by your imagination. We welcome one and all to the Faire and hope to see many of you stop by! If you have any questions or need assistance of any kind, please comment on the guidelines post linked above or drop us an email at b2mem.mod AT gmail DOT com. May the muses smile upon you, Dawn (B2MeM mod) -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a11c2c2ceea3021050fffe962 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
March is right around the corner, which means it is time f= or the Tolkien fandom's annual holiday, Back to Middle-earth Month! Thi= s year, B2MeM journeys to the Tharbad's Greenway Spring Faire, where cr= eators of fanworks can sell and purchase prompts to inspire the stories, ar= t, podfics, poetry, videos, meta, and any other fanworks you can dream up t= o post during the month of March!

The full guidelines ca= n be found here:

=
But the concept is fairly straightforward. All participants = begin with 15 farthings. All participants can "sell" prompts at o= ne of the market stalls for other participants to use in creating fanworks,= and all participants can "buy" those prompts they want to create= fanworks for. It costs one farthing to sell a prompt at a stall, and one f= arthing to purchase a prompt in order to create a fanwork. More farthings c= an be earned by commenting on the fanworks created for B2MeM 2015 or throug= h helping out around the faire (creating banners, volunteering, etc.). Fanw= orks can be posted to the B2MeM community or anywhere else you please--we e= ncourage cross-posting!

Want to see what's for= sale so far at the faire? Have an idea for a prompt that you'd like to= see handled by other creators? The master list of faire stalls (organized = by location) can be found here:


And if you're dreadful at bookkeeping and= want help keeping track of your coin, we have a bookkeeper on hand to help= :


= B2MeM is open to anyone who cares to participate. You do not need to be a m= ember of the B2MeM community, and our only restriction on what can be creat= ed is that it must have a basis in Tolkien. Crossover, AU, Silmfic, Hobbits= , Dwarves, Ents, OCs, het, slash, gen, all ratings, themes, and interpretat= ions--you are limited only by your imagination. We welcome one and all to t= he Faire and hope to see many of you stop by!

If y= ou have any questions or need assistance of any kind, please comment on the= guidelines post linked above or drop us an email at b2mem.mod AT gmail DOT= com.

May the muses smile upon you,

=
Dawn
--001a11c2c2ceea3021050fffe962-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3625 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30326 invoked by uid 102); 1 Mar 2015 21:56:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.37) by m4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2015 21:56:39 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 22480 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2015 21:56:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f179.google.com) (98.138.215.81) by mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2015 21:56:39 -0000 X-Received: by mail-ob0-f179.google.com with SMTP id wp4so27800695obc.10 for ; Sun, 01 Mar 2015 13:56:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.97.134 with SMTP id ea6mr12631319obb.21.1425246999276; Sun, 01 Mar 2015 13:56:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.202.16.17 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Mar 2015 13:56:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 16:56:39 -0500 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2e4eea1bf2b90510412d6d Subject: March 2015 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=MV6nneCePdIcoeCFQyWngqlGlYWxUtTGlwer0BdMnCsO4qjj0d12 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --047d7b2e4eea1bf2b90510412d6d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 The March 2015 edition of our newsletter has been posted on our website! http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/march2015.php It's March, so the biggest news of the month is always Back to Middle-earth Month. This year's theme, Middle-earth Marketplace, involves selling and purchasing prompts for the creation of fanworks. Many, *many* prompts have already been posted, and the first few stories are now available as well. As always, all Tolkien fans are welcome to join in the fun, and the News section of our newsletter has a list of links to get you started with B2MeM this year. Last month was the International Day of Fanworks. Check out the News section for links to the stories created for this event. This month's character is Huor, the "little brother of Hurin" ... although his biographer, Robinka, will argue that he is much more than that. In her comprehensive and interesting biography, Robinka makes the case that the oft-overlooked Huor was a fierce protector of his people and an interesting character deserving of more attention from fanfic writers. Huor is one of those characters I admittedly have to look up to remember all that he did, so this month's bio is an excellent resource that brings to life a character who doesn't tend to receive a lot of attention or notice. Maybe I'll even stop thinking about him as Hurin's little brother now? :) We had a record number of new members (20!!) join us last month and a lot of stories posted and updated on the archive as well. So if you're looking for something to read, check out one of the 37 new or updated works on our archive and LJ community! If nonfiction is more your speed, the Around the World and Web section has everything from articles on fair use to the history of slash to pronouncing Tolkien's names to *The Notion Club Papers,* as well as two excellent resources: Indy's Tolkien archive list and Wheaton College's Tolkien research database. If you're looking for something to write, we continue our First Lines challenge this month and revisit the Trinkets and Treasures challenge, which asks for stories about one of the myriad magical and valuable items we see in *The Silmarillion.* The Around the World and Web section also has links to new contests and ficswaps, free lectures, workshops, and calls for papers. Many thanks go to this month's content creators: Robinka, Rhapsody, Russandol, and Angelica. I hope everyone enjoys the new edition! Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --047d7b2e4eea1bf2b90510412d6d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The March 2015 edition of our newsletter has been posted o= n our website!


It's March, so the biggest n= ews of the month is always Back to Middle-earth Month. This year's them= e, Middle-earth Marketplace, involves selling and purchasing prompts for th= e creation of fanworks. Many, many=C2=A0prompts have already been po= sted, and the first few stories are now available as well. As always, all T= olkien fans are welcome to join in the fun, and the News section of our new= sletter has a list of links to get you started with B2MeM this year. Last m= onth was the International Day of Fanworks. Check out the News section for = links to the stories created for this event.

This = month's character is Huor, the "little brother of Hurin" ... = although his biographer, Robinka, will argue that he is much more than that= . In her comprehensive and interesting biography, Robinka makes the case th= at the oft-overlooked Huor was a fierce protector of his people and an inte= resting character deserving of more attention from fanfic writers. Huor is = one of those characters I admittedly have to look up to remember all that h= e did, so this month's bio is an excellent resource that brings to life= a character who doesn't tend to receive a lot of attention or notice. = Maybe I'll even stop thinking about him as Hurin's little brother n= ow? :)

We had a record number of new members (20!!= ) join us last month and a lot of stories posted and updated on the archive= as well. So if you're looking for something to read, check out one of = the 37 new or updated works on our archive and LJ community! If nonfiction = is more your speed, the Around the World and Web section has everything fro= m articles on fair use to the history of slash to pronouncing Tolkien's= names to The Notion Club Papers,=C2=A0as well as two excellent reso= urces: Indy's Tolkien archive list and Wheaton College's Tolkien re= search database.

If you're looking for somethi= ng to write, we continue our First Lines challenge this month and revisit t= he Trinkets and Treasures challenge, which asks for stories about one of th= e myriad magical and valuable items we see in The Silmarillion.=C2= =A0The Around the World and Web section also has links to new contests and = ficswaps, free lectures, workshops, and calls for papers.

Many thanks go to this month's content creators: Robinka, Rhaps= ody, Russandol, and Angelica. I hope everyone enjoys the new edition!
=

Best regards,

Dawn
<= div>
--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund<= br>http://themidhav= ens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--047d7b2e4eea1bf2b90510412d6d-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3626 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24995 invoked by uid 102); 2 Apr 2015 01:26:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2015 01:26:29 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 8241 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2015 01:26:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f178.google.com) (98.139.245.165) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2015 01:26:28 -0000 X-Received: by obvd1 with SMTP id d1so107830146obv.0 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2015 18:26:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.155.135 with SMTP id vw7mr43938490oeb.62.1427937988510; Wed, 01 Apr 2015 18:26:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.55.69 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Apr 2015 18:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 21:26:28 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd76720910a990512b3b8ef Subject: April 2015 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=23i0DHLFWJX9gAgfGIO2XKeezccA-KHdGHtneszYEL5B_xurxTM3 X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --047d7bd76720910a990512b3b8ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, The April 2015 edition of our newsletter has been posted on our w= ebsite: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/april2015.php We hav= e some news from within the group to report. In March, we reached the 10th = anniversary of the founding of the SWG and participated once again in Back = to Middle-earth Month. Looking ahead, April is International Poetry Month, = and in June, several SWG members will be attending and presenting at the Ne= w York Tolkien Conference. Check out the News section for more information = on these happenings! Our character this month is =C3=8Drim=C3=AB, also kno= wn as Lalwen. Oshun has written a biography of =C3=8Drim=C3=AB, about whom = we know very little. In fact, one of the key points about her character is = how she represents the troubling representation of women in Tolkien's works= . An interesting and vivacious daughter of Finw=C3=AB, =C3=8Drim=C3=AB was = one of comparatively few named women in JRRT's *Silmarillion, *but her char= acter was edited out of the published text by Christopher Tolkien. Oshun's = biography reviews the few but tantalizing details that we do know about =C3= =8Drim=C3=AB, as well as the larger context of how JRRT and Christopher pre= sent woman characters. If you're looking for something to write, we have a= new challenge, Crime and Punishment, that asks for stories about justice, = crime, and punishment in Tolkien's world. Everything from exploring canonic= al examples of this theme to original scenarios to mystery fiction is welco= me. We also revisit, in honor of actually making our April 1 publication de= adlines, the April's Fool challenge, which asks for stories featuring a pra= nk. If you're looking for something to read, check out the list of updates = to our archive. Around the World and Web contains a collection of articles= and videos about Tolkien, from the silly to the serious, as well as announ= cements about events and happenings beyond our borders: fanworks challenges= ; fan history; courses about Tolkien; calls for papers for zines, journals,= and conferences; writers' workshops; and fandom surveys. As always, our n= ewsletter involves the collaborative efforts of several volunteers to happe= n. Many thanks to Oshun, Russandol, Rhapsody, and Angelica for this month's= edition! All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens= .net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --047d7bd76720910a990512b3b8ef Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

The April 2015 edition of our = newsletter has been posted on our website:


We have some news from within the group to report. In March, we reached t= he 10th anniversary of the founding of the SWG and participated once again = in Back to Middle-earth Month. Looking ahead, April is International Poetry= Month, and in June, several SWG members will be attending and presenting a= t the New York Tolkien Conference. Check out the News section for more info= rmation on these happenings!

Our character this mo= nth is=C2=A0=C3=8Drim=C3=AB, also known as Lalwen. Oshun h= as written a biography of=C2=A0=C3=8Drim=C3=AB, about whom= we know very little. In fact, one of the key points about her character is= how she represents the troubling=C2=A0representation of women in Tolkien&#= 39;s works. An interesting and vivacious daughter of Finw=C3=AB,=C2=A0=C3=8Drim=C3=AB was one of comparatively few named wo= men in JRRT's Silmarillion, but her character was edited out of = the published text by Christopher Tolkien. Oshun's biography reviews th= e few but tantalizing details that we do know about=C2=A0= =C3=8Drim=C3=AB, as well as the larger context of how JRRT and Christopher = present woman characters.

If you're looking for something to write, = we have a new challenge, Crime and Punishment, that asks for stories about = justice, crime, and punishment in Tolkien's world. Everything from expl= oring canonical examples of this theme to original scenarios to mystery fic= tion is welcome. We also revisit, in honor of actually making our April 1 p= ublication deadlines, the April's Fool challenge, which asks for storie= s featuring a prank. If you're looking for something to read, check out= the list of updates to our archive.

Around the World and Web con= tains a collection of articles and videos about Tolkien, from the silly to = the serious, as well as announcements about events and happenings beyond ou= r borders: fanworks challenges; fan history; courses about Tolkien; calls f= or papers for zines, journals, and conferences; writers' workshops; and= fandom surveys.

=
As always, our newsletter involves the collabora= tive efforts of several volunteers to happen. Many thanks to Oshun, Russand= ol, Rhapsody, and Angelica for this month's edition!

All the = best,

= Dawn

--
<= div class=3D"gmail_signature">~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lorema= ster/
http://www= .silmarillionwritersguild.org
--047d7bd76720910a990512b3b8ef-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3627 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13437 invoked by uid 102); 14 Apr 2015 14:30:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2015 14:30:07 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 20407 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2015 14:30:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oi0-f54.google.com) (98.138.100.119) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2015 14:30:07 -0000 X-Received: by oica37 with SMTP id a37so3129002oic.0 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:30:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.44.82 with SMTP id s79mr11647087ois.103.1429021806135; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:30:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.170.137 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:30:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1137c53c21911a0513b011b1 Subject: Site ebooks-tree.com Scraping Fanfic Stories X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=PdIlRJhTmGlMtVWYS_JI6WvkFQ1UyZdh9F1JSYhdP2-LTAkavVey X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a1137c53c21911a0513b011b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, Elleth has reblogged the announcement over on our Tumblr, but since not everyone is on Tumblr and it's extremely easy to miss things on Tumblr, then I wanted to signal-boost here as well. The website ebooks-tree.com has been "scraping" fanfics from AO3, UrBookLibrary, and Wattpad to host as .mobi and .PDF downloads on their site. This has been done without the authors' permission, and a lot of people are understandably upset at what amounts to the theft of their work. AO3 has stepped up and responded quickly to take measures to make it harder for this site to continue to do this on AO3, but several Tolkien fandom authors have had their work stolen. The AO3 Tumblr has information on how to send a DMCA takedown notice on your behalf to have your work removed from the site, if you find it there and wish to have it removed. AO3 notes that the ebooks-tree.com DMCA page erroneously claims that you have to have a lawyer do this for you; *this is not correct.*This is *your* work, and you can advocate on your behalf to have it removed, should you wish to do so. Please see this post for more information: http://silmarillionwritersguild.tumblr.com/post/116335016472/fyeahcopyright-weve-been-getting-pings-and-s And please help spread the word to groups and fans who have not been informed of this already. Best regards, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a1137c53c21911a0513b011b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

Elleth has reblogged the annou= ncement over on our Tumblr, but since not everyone is on Tumblr and it'= s extremely easy to miss things on Tumblr, then I wanted to signal-boost he= re as well. The website ebooks-tree.com<= /a> has been "scraping" fanfics from AO3, UrBookLibrary, and Watt= pad to host as .mobi and .PDF downloads on their site. This has been done w= ithout the authors' permission, and a lot of people are understandably = upset at what amounts to the theft of their work. AO3 has stepped up and re= sponded quickly to take measures to make it harder for this site to continu= e to do this on AO3, but several Tolkien fandom authors have had their work= stolen. The AO3 Tumblr has information on how to send a DMCA takedown noti= ce on your behalf to have your work removed from the site, if you find it t= here and wish to have it removed. AO3 notes that the ebooks-tree.com DMCA page erroneously claims that you have= to have a lawyer do this for you; this is not correct.This is yo= ur=C2=A0work, and you can advocate on your behalf to have it removed, s= hould you wish to do so.

Please see this post for = more information:


And = please help spread the word to groups and fans who have not been informed o= f this already.

Best regards,

=
--001a1137c53c21911a0513b011b1-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3628 Return-Path: X-Sender: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34108 invoked by uid 102); 15 Apr 2015 22:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.36) by m16.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2015 22:17:26 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 20342 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2015 22:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.245.164) by mtaq5.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2015 22:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from [66.196.81.178] by n9.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2015 22:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from [10.193.75.125] by t8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2015 22:17:26 -0000 Date: 15 Apr 2015 15:17:26 -0700 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gapi4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2015 22:05:02 -0000 To: X-Original-Return-Path: elfscribe5@yahoo.com X-Original-From: elfscribe5@yahoo.com X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster References: X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV" Reply-To: elfscribe5@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Site ebooks-tree.com Scraping Fanfic Stories X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124113093; y=OHL4AoFKe_Hvu1aaWaf_5MJBWjtt3zHe_IWxwACsmcb4gkfy5A X-Yahoo-Profile: elfscribe5 From: elfscribe5@yahoo.com --9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhhbmtzIERhd24gZm9yIHRoaXMgYWxlcnQuICBJIHZpZXcgdGhpcyBraW5kIG9mIHBvYWNoaW5n IHZlcnkgc2VyaW91c2x5LiAgIEp1c3QgYW4gZnlpLCB3aGVuIEkgdHJpZWQgdG8gc2VhcmNoIG9u IGVib29rcy10cmVlLmNvbSwgYXQgZmlyc3QgSSBoYWQgbm8gbHVjay4gIEdvdCBhIHdlaXJkIHNp dGUgaW4gYW5vdGhlciBsYW5ndWFnZS4gIEkgZmluYWxseSB0cmFja2VkIGRvd24gdGhlIHNpdGUg bGlzdGVkIGFzIGVib29rcy10cmVlLm5ldCAgKG5vdCAuY29tKSBBIHNlYXJjaCBkaWRuJ3QgcmV2 ZWFsIGFueXRoaW5nIHVuZGVyIGVsZnNjcmliZS0td2hpY2ggaXMgYSByZWxpZWYuICBJdCB3b3Vs ZCBiZSBhIHNlcnZpY2UgdG8gZmFuZG9tIGF1dGhvcnMgaWYgYW55b25lIG91dCB0aGVyZSBjb21l cyB1cG9uIGFuIGF1dGhvciB3aXRoIHdvcmsgbGlzdGVkIG9uIHRoaXMgc2l0ZSB0byBsZXQgdXMg a25vdyBpbiBjYXNlIGl0J3Mgbm90IHNvbWV0aGluZyB3ZSB3YW50LiA= --9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhhbmtzIERhd24gZm9yIHRoaXMgYWxlcnQuJm5ic3A7IEkgdmlldyB0aGlzIGtpbmQgb2YgcG9h Y2hpbmcgdmVyeSBzZXJpb3VzbHkuJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7IEp1c3QgYW4gZnlpLCB3aGVuIEkgdHJp ZWQgdG8gc2VhcmNoIG9uIGVib29rcy10cmVlLmNvbSwgYXQgZmlyc3QgSSBoYWQgbm8gbHVjay4m bmJzcDsgR290IGEgd2VpcmQgc2l0ZSBpbiBhbm90aGVyIGxhbmd1YWdlLiZuYnNwOyBJIGZpbmFs bHkgdHJhY2tlZCBkb3duIHRoZSBzaXRlIGxpc3RlZCBhcyBlYm9va3MtdHJlZS5uZXQmbmJzcDsg KG5vdCAuY29tKSBBIHNlYXJjaCBkaWRuJiMzOTt0IHJldmVhbCBhbnl0aGluZyB1bmRlciBlbGZz Y3JpYmUtLXdoaWNoIGlzIGEgcmVsaWVmLiZuYnNwOyBJdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBhIHNlcnZpY2UgdG8g ZmFuZG9tIGF1dGhvcnMgaWYgYW55b25lIG91dCB0aGVyZSBjb21lcyB1cG9uIGFuIGF1dGhvciB3 aXRoIHdvcmsgbGlzdGVkIG9uIHRoaXMgc2l0ZSB0byBsZXQgdXMga25vdyBpbiBjYXNlIGl0JiMz OTtzIG5vdCBzb21ldGhpbmcgd2Ugd2FudC4mbmJzcDs= --9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3629 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6060 invoked by uid 102); 16 Apr 2015 00:18:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m10.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2015 00:18:04 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 7300 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2015 00:18:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-vn0-f49.google.com) (98.139.245.164) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2015 00:18:04 -0000 X-Received: by vnbf1 with SMTP id f1so21738408vnb.5 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:18:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.37.73 with SMTP id w9mr23266066oej.49.1429143484325; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:18:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.170.137 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:18:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 20:18:04 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013cc2d6b7685f0513cc65f9 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Site ebooks-tree.com Scraping Fanfic Stories X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=BWDz4KxODqde6Km0wDHz5r8a7n9SMtrj28b3_lw4FOuIkWUMmfTQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --089e013cc2d6b7685f0513cc65f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Silver Trails and I have been talking about it on the SWG Dreamwidth comm. She found stories of hers, but they have since been taken down. I only found an ominously named DawnFelagund.pdf (I have a rather creepy image of myself rendered down into a portable document!) that has since been removed as well. My hope is that they realized they were going to be expending a lot of effort taking down AO3 fics piecemeal and drawing lots of attention to what appears to be a phishing scheme (since they require a credit card number ... to download free stories? really??) and so removed them all. Is anyone still finding their stories there? My work is under a fairly liberal Creative Commons license. If I found a story of mine archived--with credit, of course--on another site, I wouldn't mind. I *do* very much mind when someone tries to access something with my name attached and is required to provide a credit card number. Although I suspect I still mind less than the Tolkien Estate, which might be another reason for what appears to be a mass deletion of stories. I'm sure quite a few rights holders follow AO3 as well. I definitely agree about letting people know if you find their work on that site. Dawn On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 6:17 PM, elfscribe5@yahoo.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] wrote: > > > Thanks Dawn for this alert. I view this kind of poaching very > seriously. Just an fyi, when I tried to search on ebooks-tree.com, at > first I had no luck. Got a weird site in another language. I finally > tracked down the site listed as ebooks-tree.net (not .com) A search > didn't reveal anything under elfscribe--which is a relief. It would be a > service to fandom authors if anyone out there comes upon an author with > work listed on this site to let us know in case it's not something we want. > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e013cc2d6b7685f0513cc65f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Silver Trails and I have been talking about it on the SWG = Dreamwidth comm. She found stories of hers, but they have since been taken = down. I only found an ominously named DawnFelagund.pdf (I have a rather cre= epy image of myself rendered down into a portable document!) that has since= been removed as well. My hope is that they realized they were going to be = expending a lot of effort taking down AO3 fics piecemeal and drawing lots o= f attention to what appears to be a phishing scheme (since they require a c= redit card number ... to download free stories? really??) and so removed th= em all. Is anyone still finding their stories there?

My = work is under a fairly liberal Creative Commons license. If I found a story= of mine archived--with credit, of course--on another site, I wouldn't = mind. I do=C2=A0very much mind when someone tries to access somethin= g with my name attached and is required to provide a credit card number. Al= though I suspect I still mind less than the Tolkien Estate, which might be = another reason for what appears to be a mass deletion of stories. I'm s= ure quite a few rights holders follow AO3 as well.

I definitely agree about letting people know if you find their work on tha= t site.

Dawn

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 6:17 PM, elfscribe5@yahoo.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] <= span dir=3D"ltr"><SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
=C2=A0

Thanks Dawn for this alert.=C2=A0 I view this ki= nd of poaching very seriously.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Just an fyi, when I tried to sea= rch on ebooks-tree.com= , at first I had no luck.=C2=A0 Got a weird site in another language.= =C2=A0 I finally tracked down the site listed as ebooks-tree.net=C2=A0 (not .com) A search di= dn't reveal anything under elfscribe--which is a relief.=C2=A0 It would= be a service to fandom authors if anyone out there comes upon an author wi= th work listed on this site to let us know in case it's not something w= e want.

<= br>

--
~= oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--089e013cc2d6b7685f0513cc65f9-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3630 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5113 invoked by uid 102); 16 Apr 2015 00:26:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.143) by m8.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2015 00:26:49 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 27345 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2015 00:26:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-vn0-f44.google.com) (98.139.245.165) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2015 00:26:49 -0000 X-Received: by vnbf1 with SMTP id f1so21782375vnb.5 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:26:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.63.99 with SMTP id f3mr23835860oes.9.1429144009159; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:26:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.170.137 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:26:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 20:26:49 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2578affba200513cc841a Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Re: Site ebooks-tree.com Scraping Fanfic Stories X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=j-3HDK1vMQpyjHFhkia1GKcQSnsgQCXiRuwc-_9_KHe1Tl28XGZe X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a11c2578affba200513cc841a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Right as I posted my reply, my MPTT comod Dreamflower sent a link to that Yahoo! list with an update from the OTW: > > http://archiveofourown.org/admin_posts/2692 As always, it contains good information and advice regarding your rights as a creator. (And yes, even as "just" fanfic authors, we do have rights to our work! :) Reading through the comments on the post, it does appear that all AO3 stories were taken down, although it's always worth remaining vigilant in case the site waits till the hoopla settles down to pull the same shenanigans again. Someone from the publishing industry also commented to note that they had filed a formal legal complaint and were spreading the word in publishing circles as well with hopes of getting the entire enterprise shut down entirely. Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a11c2578affba200513cc841a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Righ= t as I posted my reply, my MPTT comod Dreamflower sent a link to that Yahoo= ! list with an update from the OTW:
=

http://archiveo= fourown.org/admin_posts/2692

As always, it contains good information and = advice regarding your rights as a creator. (And yes, even as "just&quo= t; fanfic authors, we do have rights to our work! :) Reading through the co= mments on the post, it does appear that all AO3 stories were taken down, al= though it's always worth remaining vigilant in case the site waits till= the hoopla settles down to pull the same shenanigans again. Someone from t= he publishing industry also commented to note that they had filed a formal = legal complaint and were spreading the word in publishing circles as well w= ith hopes of getting the entire enterprise shut down entirely.

Dawn



--
~oOo~Dawn Felagund
h= ttp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001a11c2578affba200513cc841a-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3631 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11359 invoked by uid 102); 2 May 2015 14:34:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.33) by m15.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2015 14:34:43 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 10311 invoked from network); 2 May 2015 14:34:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f181.google.com) (98.138.215.82) by mtaq2.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2015 14:34:43 -0000 X-Received: by obfe9 with SMTP id e9so81619394obf.1 for ; Sat, 02 May 2015 07:34:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.129.19 with SMTP id ns19mr11619642obb.3.1430577281954; Sat, 02 May 2015 07:34:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.170.137 with HTTP; Sat, 2 May 2015 07:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 10:34:41 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1f54cb6f89105151a3aed Subject: May 2015 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=wN6qW-kMNziQ1Ud8YZnFnmh_OUUVdx8V1FjjKk0P-cRllHDIszga X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --e89a8fb1f54cb6f89105151a3aed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The newsletter for May 2015 has been posted on our site: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/may2015.php We have some SWG news to report. First, we have made some additions to our archive character list to better serve authors who include non-Tolkien characters in their stories. Until this point, authors have only had the *Original Character* label, which didn't serve well for stories that included characters from history, myth, and other works of fiction. Authors can continue to choose the *Original Character(s) *label but can now also select *Historical Character(s), Legendary/Mythical Character(s), Original Female Character(s), Original Male Character(s), Other Fictional Character(s), *and *Real Person(s). *If you are an author who uses non-Tolkien characters in your work (and most of us do!), I recommend checking out the News section to learn more about this change. Our 10th birthday approaches, and we are are beginning to work on our first birthday project: birthday cards. We hope to offer a selection of digital greeting cards that can be sent to the SWG members you want to recognize and appreciate as making the fandom a better place. We need volunteers at this point to help make the cards, artists/photographers to allow use of their work, and ideas from our members on what cards to make so that they can brighten someone's day. There is also a post on our LJ where you can learn more and share ideas: http://silwritersguild.livejournal.com/257826.html Finally, Oshun and I will be presented at the New York Tolkien Conference at Baruch College on June 13. The conference is free; however, they are limited to 150 spots and are approaching that number, so if you are in the area and want to attend, make sure you register soon. Even though the conference is free, you must register in order for campus security to allow you access to the building. The newsletter and our site sidebar have all the links you'll need. And, if you're attending, please let me know so that we can arrange an SWG member meet-up! Onto the fun stuff ... our character of the month is Beregar of Numenor. As Oshun notes, this is one of the few instances where we see a reversal of the common and irritating tendency for women in history (and Tolkien, by extension) to be known as "the mother of" or "the wife of" some important guy: Beregar is "the father of" an important woman in Numenorean history, Erendis. Although Beregar is a minor character, Oshun has applied her usual insight to take the few details we know about him to flesh out the character of Erendis and draw hints about Numenorean culture in general. It's a short read this month and well worth it. If you're looking for something to read, we had over 50 works added or updated on the archive this month. I've been watching tantalizing summaries march across the Most Recent page all month, mired in grad school work and unable to read any, so I hope some of you will check them out and consider leaving the author a comment if you like what you read. Around the World and Web also has a selection of articles this month on Elves, oral tradition, politics in Middle-earth, fanfic, and illustrations inspired by Tolkien, as well as challenges, courses, surveys, calls for papers, and other fun stuff going on beyond our borders. Our challenges this month continue Crime and Punishment, which ask you to write on issues of justice, crime, and punishment among the peoples of Middle-earth, and we also revisit the Circle of Life challenge, for stories that tackle the big existential issues from Tolkien on death, afterlife, and reembodiment. Many thanks to Oshun and Rhapsody this month for their help creating the newsletter content, and thanks to co-mods Angelica and Russandol for their support in developing some of the ideas you see this month. All the best, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8fb1f54cb6f89105151a3aed Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

The newsletter for May 2015 ha= s been posted on our site:


We have some SWG n= ews to report. First, we have made some additions to our archive character = list to better serve authors who include non-Tolkien characters in their st= ories. Until this point, authors have only had the Original Character=C2=A0label, which didn't serve well= for stories that included characters from history, myth, and other works o= f fiction. Authors can continue to choose the Original Character(s) = label but can now also select Historical Character(s), Legendary/Mythica= l Character(s), Original Female Character(s), Original Male Character(s), O= ther Fictional Character(s), and Real Person(s). If you are an a= uthor who uses non-Tolkien characters in your work (and most of us do!), I = recommend checking out the News section to learn more about this change.

Our 10th birthday approaches, and we are are beginni= ng to work on our first birthday project: birthday cards. We hope to offer = a selection of digital greeting cards that can be sent to the SWG members y= ou want to recognize and appreciate as making the fandom a better place. We= need volunteers at this point to help make the cards, artists/photographer= s to allow use of their work, and ideas from our members on what cards to m= ake so that they can brighten someone's day. There is also a post on ou= r LJ where you can learn more and share ideas:=C2=A0http://silwritersguild.livejournal.= com/257826.html

Finally, Oshun and I will be p= resented at the New York Tolkien Conference at Baruch College on June 13. T= he conference is free; however, they are limited to 150 spots and are appro= aching that number, so if you are in the area and want to attend, make sure= you register soon. Even though the conference is free, you must register i= n order for campus security to allow you access to the building. The newsle= tter and our site sidebar have all the links you'll need. And, if you&#= 39;re attending, please let me know so that we can arrange an SWG member me= et-up!

Onto the fun stuff ... our character of the= month is Beregar of Numenor. As Oshun notes, this is one of the few instan= ces where we see a reversal of the common and irritating tendency for women= in history (and Tolkien, by extension) to be known as "the mother of&= quot; or "the wife of" some important guy: Beregar is "the f= ather of" an important woman in Numenorean history, Erendis. Although = Beregar is a minor character, Oshun has applied her usual insight to take t= he few details we know about him to flesh out the character of Erendis and = draw hints about Numenorean culture in general. It's a short read this = month and well worth it.

If you're looking for= something to read, we had over 50 works added or updated on the archive th= is month. I've been watching tantalizing summaries march across the Mos= t Recent page all month, mired in grad school work and unable to read any, = so I hope some of you will check them out and consider leaving the author a= comment if you like what you read. Around the World and Web also has a sel= ection of articles this month on Elves, oral tradition, politics in Middle-= earth, fanfic, and illustrations inspired by Tolkien, as well as challenges= , courses, surveys, calls for papers, and other fun stuff going on beyond o= ur borders.

Our challenges this month continue Cri= me and Punishment, which ask you to write on issues of justice, crime, and = punishment among the peoples of Middle-earth, and we also revisit the Circl= e of Life challenge, for stories that tackle the big existential issues fro= m Tolkien on death, afterlife, and reembodiment.

M= any thanks to Oshun and Rhapsody this month for their help creating the new= sletter content, and thanks to co-mods Angelica and Russandol for their sup= port in developing some of the ideas you see this month.
--e89a8fb1f54cb6f89105151a3aed-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3632 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32676 invoked by uid 102); 3 May 2015 14:25:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m8.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2015 14:25:26 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 19070 invoked from network); 3 May 2015 14:25:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f179.google.com) (98.138.215.81) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2015 14:25:26 -0000 X-Received: by obfe9 with SMTP id e9so91710897obf.1 for ; Sun, 03 May 2015 07:25:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.216.135 with SMTP id oq7mr15021907obc.66.1430662750250; Sun, 03 May 2015 07:19:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.170.137 with HTTP; Sun, 3 May 2015 07:19:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 10:19:10 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113485c805acac05152e21fc Subject: Re: May 2015 Newsletter Posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=FzcCpFNm54dDXaVNice6O0Ruz2e1cUHCoO-CkZZ9Pm--JI67S1nP X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --001a113485c805acac05152e21fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, I had one of those "Oh $%!&" moments this morning, as I realized I had made a significant omission in the thank-yous for the last newsletter. I accidentally left Elleth off the list of mods who helped with developing the ideas in the News section this month. My heartfelt apologies, Elleth--and thank you for *all *that you do! :) Dawn On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Dawn Felagund wrote: > Hi, all, > > The newsletter for May 2015 has been posted on our site: > > http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/may2015.php > > -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --001a113485c805acac05152e21fc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

I had one of those "Oh $%= !&" moments this morning, as I realized I had made a significant o= mission in the thank-yous for the last newsletter. I accidentally left Elle= th off the list of mods who helped with developing the ideas in the News se= ction this month. My heartfelt apologies, Elleth--and thank you for all = that you do! :)

Dawn

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Dawn F= elagund <dawnfelagund@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, all,

The newslet= ter for May 2015 has been posted on our site:

<= div>



= --
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
http://themi= dhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org
--001a113485c805acac05152e21fc-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3633 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1620 invoked by uid 102); 3 Jun 2015 00:05:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.37) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2015 00:05:45 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 8848 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2015 00:05:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f179.google.com) (98.138.100.119) by mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2015 00:05:45 -0000 X-Received: by obbea3 with SMTP id ea3so29914obb.0 for ; Tue, 02 Jun 2015 17:05:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.129.19 with SMTP id ns19mr24640877obb.3.1433289944469; Tue, 02 Jun 2015 17:05:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.200.193 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Jun 2015 17:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 20:05:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1f54c00151e051791d2ff Subject: June 2015 Newsletter Posted! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=Xtu3sHDXz4jLNF6Rxe0cXfjr0blHVWq93iJjE7m975f_SVPnZIOG X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --e89a8fb1f54c00151e051791d2ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, Our June 2015 newsletter has been posted over at our website: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/news/june2015.php This continues to be a busy year for us here at the SWG. We are turning 10 (!!) in just under two months and are in the midst of planning our celebration for that. (Please note that we are still in rather desperate need of help with graphics for our birthday cards, so if you're good with graphics and can offer even a small amount of assistance, please let us know!) And in just under two weeks, Oshun and I will be presenting at the New York Tolkien Conference *and* the SWG will be set up in the Iaurond Room. And Pandemonium and Elfscribe have received some very cool kudos in the mainstream press! Full details on all of those things can be found at the link above. This month's newsletter features a biography of Aerin, written by Himring. First of all, I think it is fair to describe the circumstances under which Himring wrote this biography--which also happens to be her first for our site--which started with an email from me on Saturday that went something like, "You said once that you'd pinch-hit on the bios at the last minute ... exactly *how* last-minute did you mean??" But one would never know from the essay that she had less than two days to write it in: It is excellent, and I learned a lot from it. Aerin is a rather minor character in the story of Morwen and Turin, but like many of Tolkien's minor characters, once you dig through the various versions of the texts, there are actually a lot of details in there and even more hints at what could be details. It is a fascinating read, and I hope many of you will check it out. The newsletter also contains a list of stories added and updated during the month of May, as well as two challenges for the month: Crime & Punishment and Sibling Rivalry. Finally, in the Around the World and Web section, you will find some articles that we found interesting this past month, as well as *lots* of goings on outside of the SWG: challenges, ficswaps, lectures, surveys, and calls for papers. Many thanks to Rhapsody and Angelica for their help putting together this month's edition, and a HUGE thank you to Himring for her excellent essay done under enormous time pressure. (And yes, I will be doing better with setting calendar alerts so that I don't somehow manage to miss the end of the month again ...) I hope everyone enjoys the new edition! Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --e89a8fb1f54c00151e051791d2ff Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,

Our June 2015 newsletter = has been posted over at our website:


This c= ontinues to be a busy year for us here at the SWG. We are turning 10 (!!) i= n just under two months and are in the midst of planning our celebration fo= r that. (Please note that we are still in rather desperate need of help wit= h graphics for our birthday cards, so if you're good with graphics and = can offer even a small amount of assistance, please let us know!) And in ju= st under two weeks, Oshun and I will be presenting at the New York Tolkien = Conference and=C2=A0the SWG will be set up in the Iaurond Room. And = Pandemonium and Elfscribe have received some very cool kudos in the mainstr= eam press! Full details on all of those things can be found at the link abo= ve.

This month's newsletter features a biograp= hy of Aerin, written by Himring. First of all, I think it is fair to descri= be the circumstances under which Himring wrote this biography--which also h= appens to be her first for our site--which started with an email from me on= Saturday that went something like, "You said once that you'd pinc= h-hit on the bios at the last minute ... exactly how=C2=A0last-minut= e did you mean??" But one would never know from the essay that she had= less than two days to write it in: It is excellent, and I learned a lot fr= om it. Aerin is a rather minor character in the story of Morwen and Turin, = but like many of Tolkien's minor characters, once you dig through the v= arious versions of the texts, there are actually a lot of details in there = and even more hints at what could be details. It is a fascinating read, and= I hope many of you will check it out.

The newslet= ter also contains a list of stories added and updated during the month of M= ay, as well as two challenges for the month: Crime & Punishment and Sib= ling Rivalry. Finally, in the Around the World and Web section, you will fi= nd some articles that we found interesting this past month, as well as l= ots=C2=A0of goings on outside of the SWG: challenges, ficswaps, lecture= s, surveys, and calls for papers.

Many thanks to R= hapsody and Angelica for their help putting together this month's editi= on, and a HUGE thank you to Himring for her excellent essay done under enor= mous time pressure. (And yes, I will be doing better with setting calendar = alerts so that I don't somehow manage to miss the end of the month agai= n ...)

I hope everyone enjoys the new edition!

<= /div> --e89a8fb1f54c00151e051791d2ff-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3634 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24629 invoked by uid 102); 15 Jun 2015 12:08:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.142) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2015 12:08:59 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 13269 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2015 12:08:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-oi0-f47.google.com) (98.139.245.165) by mtaq3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2015 12:08:59 -0000 X-Received: by oigz2 with SMTP id z2so57307672oig.1 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2015 05:08:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.121.134 with SMTP id lk6mr5977596obb.51.1434370138987; Mon, 15 Jun 2015 05:08:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.200.193 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Jun 2015 05:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 08:08:58 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01536a589c6c5e05188d52ef Subject: Free Book on Forge Work X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=uT2LHoQ5iVsYlquuNul5CvqJNTUSWjHCet6YSmNyxJO1roARO0GV X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --089e01536a589c6c5e05188d52ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, everyone, I get a daily email from Forgotten Books with a book they are offering for free that day. Today's might be of interest to *Silmarillion* writers, as it concerns metalworking and blacksmithing. The link to download the book is below; if you miss the download window, I have downloaded a PDF copy and am glad to share; just send me an email off-list. All the best, Dawn ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Forgotten Books Date: Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:40 AM Subject: Free Book of the Day, Monday 15th To: Dawn Felagund 1,000,000 Books, Images & Word Data by Forgotten Books ------------------------------ *Forge Work* by William L. Ilgen William L. Ilgen's book *Forge Work* is an instructional text detailing metalwork, and more specifically working with a forge. The original purpose of the book, as outlined in the author's preface, was to commit to text many of the oral instructions provided to metalworking and blacksmithing students so that they may have a reference document to which they can refer. Divided into eight chapters, *Forge Work* is a thorough and expansive reference book. The book begins with an introduction to the tools and appliances commonly used by smiths. Ilgen's writing is accessible for the layperson, so much so that a reader with no experience in forging could comfortably make this book their introduction into the craft. From his introduction to the tools, Ilgen progresses to a discussion of some specific forging operations, including straightening, twisting, welding, and scarfing, among many others. The author outlines various practice exercises to be used by students of metalworking so as to improve their skills and understanding of the craft. Later chapters cover more advanced topics, such as the treatment of steel, tool making, art smithing, and scroll work. Pictures are included throughout, however many have unfortunately not survived republication. William L. Ilgen's *Forge Work* is a success as both a textbook for students of metal work and as a reference book for those more experienced in the craft. The index that concludes the book is invaluable, and the clear and concise directions throughout make for an illuminating read. While other books have been published on the topic, few cover the information with as much depth and breadth as *Forge Work*. Get Free Book of the Day *Free Book of the Day is 100% readable for 24 hours only!* ------------------------------ Intelligent Bookshelf recommends the following books which may be of interest to you. *Celtic Mythology and Religion* With Chapters Upon Druid Circles and Celtic Burial *by Alexander Macbain* Read *A History of Greek Classical Literature* *by Robert William Browne* Read *Old English Towns* *by William Andrews* Read *Handbook of Universal Literature, from the Best and Latest Authorities* Revised and Brought Down to 1885 *by Anne Charlotte Lynch Botta* Read ------------------------------ FB &c Ltd, Dalton House, 60 Windsor Avenue, London, SW19 2RR Company number 08720141. Registered in England and Wales. If you no longer wish to receive this email you may unsubscribe -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e01536a589c6c5e05188d52ef Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone,

I get a daily email from = Forgotten Books with a book they are offering for free that day. Today'= s might be of interest to Silmarillion=C2=A0writers, as it concerns = metalworking and blacksmithing. The link to download the book is below; if = you miss the download window, I have downloaded a PDF copy and am glad to s= hare; just send me an email off-list.

All the best= ,

Dawn

--= -------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Forgotten Books <noreply@forgottenbooks.com>
Date: Mon, Jun = 15, 2015 at 12:40 AM
Subject: Free Book of the Day, Monday 15th
To: D= awn Felagund <DawnFelagund@gma= il.com>


=
=C2=A0
3D"" =C2=A0
=C2=A0
1,000,000 Books, Images & Word = Data by Forgotten Books
Forge Work
by William L= . Ilgen

William L. Ilgen's book = Forge Work is an instructional text detailing metalwork, and more speci= fically working with a forge. The original purpose of the book, as outlined= in the author's preface, was to commit to text many of the oral instru= ctions provided to metalworking and blacksmithing students so that they may= have a reference document to which they can refer.

Divided into eig= ht chapters, Forge Work is a thorough and expansive reference book. = The book begins with an introduction to the tools and appliances commonly u= sed by smiths. Ilgen's writing is accessible for the layperson, so much= so that a reader with no experience in forging could comfortably make this= book their introduction into the craft. From his introduction to the tools= , Ilgen progresses to a discussion of some specific forging operations, inc= luding straightening, twisting, welding, and scarfing, among many others. T= he author outlines various practice exercises to be used by students of met= alworking so as to improve their skills and understanding of the craft.
=
Later chapters cover more advanced topics, such as the treatment of ste= el, tool making, art smithing, and scroll work. Pictures are included throu= ghout, however many have unfortunately not survived republication.

W= illiam L. Ilgen's Forge Work is a success as both a textbook for= students of metal work and as a reference book for those more experienced = in the craft. The index that concludes the book is invaluable, and the clea= r and concise directions throughout make for an illuminating read. While ot= her books have been published on the topic, few cover the information with = as much depth and breadth as Forge Work.
Free Book of the Day is 100% readable for 24 hours only!
<= tr> <= tr>

Intelligent Bookshelf recommends the following books = which may be of interest to you.
=C2=A0
=C2= =A0 Celtic Mythology and ReligionWith Chapters Upon Druid Circles and Celtic Burial
by Alexander Ma= cbain
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 A History of Greek Classical Literature
by Robert = William Browne
=C2=A0
= =C2=A0 Old English To= wns
by William Andrews
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 Handbook of Universal Literature, from the Best and Latest= Authorities
Revised and Brought Down to 1885
by Anne Ch= arlotte Lynch Botta
<= /tr>

FB &c Ltd, Dalton House, 60 Windsor= Avenue, London, SW19 2RR
Company number 08720141. Registered in England= and Wales.

If you no longer wish to receive this email you may unsubscribe



--
--089e01536a589c6c5e05188d52ef-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3635 Return-Path: X-Sender: dawnfelagund@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57147 invoked by uid 102); 17 Jun 2015 12:11:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.37) by m16.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2015 12:11:01 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 26017 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2015 12:11:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ob0-f172.google.com) (98.139.170.166) by mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2015 12:11:01 -0000 X-Received: by obbgp2 with SMTP id gp2so31486538obb.2; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 05:11:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.121.134 with SMTP id lk6mr4147524obb.51.1434543060733; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 05:11:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.200.193 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 05:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 08:11:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: SWG , LOTR_Community_GFIC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01536a588cd51f0518b595fb Subject: Free Online Lecture "Tolkien and Environmentalism" Tonight X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=315689113; y=qnQC_7OTUwC4FZEymscgrwjePvtYqTF8NpS1OIyhiB4IrCTWm36W X-Yahoo-Profile: dawnfelagund From: Dawn Felagund --089e01536a588cd51f0518b595fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, all, The Mythgard Institute is sponsoring a 2015 guest lecture series of free lectures on topics related to fantasy studies. I thought tonight's lecture might be of interest to some people here: "Tolkien and Environmentalism" by Professor Matthew Dickerson of Middlebury College. The lecture runs from 5:30 to 7:00 Eastern Time. You can register for the lecture here: https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/5013861350198838018 This is only the second lecture in the series; the list of the other speakers is here: http://www.mythgard.org/academy/guest-lecture-series/ I will continue to keep everyone informed if any of the future talks are Tolkien-related! Take care, Dawn -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org --089e01536a588cd51f0518b595fb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,

The Mythgard Institute is spon= soring a 2015 guest lecture series of free lectures on topics related to fa= ntasy studies. I thought tonight's lecture might be of interest to some= people here: "Tolkien and Environmentalism" by Professor Matthew= Dickerson of Middlebury College. The lecture runs from 5:30 to 7:00 Easter= n Time. You can register for the lecture here:

This is only the second lecture in the series; the list of the = other speakers is here:


I will continue to keep eve= ryone informed if any of the future talks are Tolkien-related!
Take care,

Dawn

--
~oOo~
Dawn Felagund
= h= ttp://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/
http://www.silmarillionwriters= guild.org
--089e01536a588cd51f0518b595fb-- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 3636 Return-Path: X-Sender: heartofoshun@aol.com X-Apparently-To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41395 invoked by uid 102); 17 Jun 2015 12:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.193.84.32) by m1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2015 12:39:06 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 11777 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2015 12:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO oms-m03.mx.aol.com) (98.139.170.166) by mtaq1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2015 12:39:06 -0000 X-Received: from omr-m05.mx.aol.com (omr-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.143.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oms-m03.mx.aol.com (AOL Outbound OMS Interface) with ESMTPS id A414638004F31 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 08:37:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from mtaomg-aad01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aad01.mx.aol.com [172.26.127.227]) by omr-m05.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 9617070000090; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 08:37:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from core-lja03h.mail.aol.com (core-lja03.mail.aol.com [10.76.9.3]) by mtaomg-aad01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 5233938000082; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 08:37:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from 173.68.250.185 by webprd-m04.mail.aol.com (10.74.6.144) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 17 Jun 2015 08:37:31 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 08:37:31 -0400 To: SilmarillionWritersGuild@yahoogroups.com, LOTR_Community_GFIC@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: <14e01863b7e-1d0e-5a6@webprd-m04.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1804_1451597333.1434544651132" X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD x-aol-global-disposition: S X-SPAM-FLAG: YES X-AOL-REROUTE: YES x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7fe355816a0b16f9 Subject: Re: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Free Online Lecture "Tolkien and Environmentalism" Tonight X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=253786104; y=HCBLTIUAveO5qtv3iiDdeGFW8wMdysxwEKlpBPrvCEE0xu7w7pAd X-Yahoo-Profile: heartofoshun From: heartofoshun@aol.com ------=_Part_1804_1451597333.1434544651132 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Dawn. That is awesome. -----Original Message----- From: Da= wn Felagund DawnFelagund@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild] To: SWG ; LOTR_Community_GFIC Sent: Wed,= Jun 17, 2015 8:11 am Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Free Online Lectu= re "Tolkien and Environmentalism" Tonight Hi, al= l, The Mythgard Institute is sponsoring a 2015 gues= t lecture series of free lectures on topics related to fantasy studies. I t= hought tonight's lecture might be of interest to some people here: "Tolkien= and Environmentalism" by Professor Matthew Dickerson of Middlebury College= . The lecture runs from 5:30 to 7:00 Eastern Time. You can register for the= lecture here: https://attendee.gotoweb= inar.com/register/5013861350198838018 This is= only the second lecture in the series; the list of the other speakers is h= ere: http://www.mythgard.org/academy/gu= est-lecture-series/ I will continue to keep e= veryone informed if any of the future talks are Tolkien-related! = Take care, Dawn = -- ~oOo~ Dawn Felagund = http://themidhavens.net/heretic_loremaster/ http://www.silm= arillionwritersguild.org ------=_Part_1804_1451597333.1434544651132 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Da= wn. That is awesome.



-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Felagund DawnFela= gund@gmail.com [SilmarillionWritersGuild]
To: SWG
Se= nt: Wed, Jun 17, 2015 8:11 am
Subject: [SilmarillionWritersGuild] Free= Online Lecture "Tolkien and Environmentalism" Tonight

 
Hi, all,
=
The Mythgard Institute is sponsoring= a 2015 guest lecture series of free lectures on topics related to fantasy = studies. I thought tonight's lecture might be of interest to some people he= re: "Tolkien and Environmentalism" by Professor Matthew Dickerson of Middle= bury College. The lecture runs from 5:30 to 7:00 Eastern Time. You can regi= ster for the lecture here:


=
This is only the second lecture in the series; the= list of the other speakers is here:

=

I will continue to keep everyone informed if any of the = future talks are Tolkien-related!

=
Take care,

=
<= /div>
=